# Going fully Wireless IEMs. Too soon? Or are we there yet?



## webreaper

Hi all,

Haven't posted much as I've been pretty happy with the Senn IE80s over the last couple of years. But I'm getting a bit fed up with having to replace the cable every 8-12 months. The IE80s are fantastic sound-wise, and I have custom-moulded sleeves which give a wonderful fit and great sound isolation. I was originally looking for a wireless lanyard like the Westone BT cable 78548, but unfortunately the IE80s use a custom connector, and I can't find an equivalent wireless converter that'll fit the Senns (there's some $5 ones on Alibaba, but I've no confidence that they'll have decent SQ, battery life or reliability). 

I use the IEMs primarily for music/movies during my commute; it's walking and sitting, so they don't have to be exercise-proof or waterproof - although that would be good for listening sessions while I work in the garden. Battery life is reasonably important; I don't want to have to charge them every day, and if I forget to charge them once they need to last for a second commute (so at least 3hrs+ in total).

So the question is, are we at the point yet where it's feasible to go for fully-wireless IEM buds. There seem to be a lot of devices out there which very nearly cut the mustard, but all so far seem to have caveats. But there's also some interesting kit being released in the next few weeks, and I'm wondering whether anyone has experienced them and can help encourage me to take the plunge. 

Current possibilities/shortlist seems to be:

Sony WF-1000X - has a few great (p)reviews, and the noice cancellation appears to be a great extra feature. Haven't seen any reports on battery life, but stated claims of 3hrs + 9 extra from the case seem 'okay'.
Bragi The Headphone - seem to be generally well-liked and a good feature-set. No charging case seems problematic though.
Bragi Dash Pro - super cool, but super-expensive (and reviews on head-fi indicate that the SQ is not good).
Zolo Liberty Plus - very promising, I'm looking forward to hearing what these sound like. I nearly pulled the trigger on a speculative punt via the Kickstarter, but missed the deadline. 
Bose SoundSport Free - again, seem like they might be good, waiting to see reviews. No UK release date as yet.
B&O Beoplay E8 - look like they'll be good, but expensive too. 

Anything else I should add to the list and consider? Are there any fully wireless IEMs with custom sleeves yet for a perfect fit?


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## clerkpalmer (Sep 22, 2017)

We might be getting close now that the big boys are all getting in on it.  I'll add the Jaybird Run to the list but the consensus is that even though it uses the same drivers as the regular X3, the sound quality isn't the same.  I am a big fan of the regular Wireless Soundsports so I am personally on the Bose Soundsport Free bandwagon.  If Bose can pull off the same sound quality in the Free that will be a winner.  $250 is steep but i'll willing to pay an extra $80 over the Jaybird.  I think the real question on true wireless is are they solving a problem we don't have.  I love gadgets and have tried dozens of BT headphones.  Mostly of the sports variety because that's where I use them most.  And even though I keep spending, I am always asking myself if these are really offering an difference over a "wired" BT headset?  I am not entirely sure.  There is a cool factor and I do use Jabra Elite Sports strictly for running and enjoy the complete freedom.  But in 90% of the applications, the "regular" wireless version works.  And if the battery is better, and the SQ is better, then it does leave my asking "why do I need true wireless".  That said, I'm a sucker for shiny new toys.  I ruled the Sony out because they are not sweatproof.  The Zolo are intriguing but they are HUGE.   The E8 will probably sound great but if they are anything like the H5 the design will fail them.  I've held off on Dash Pro for the very reason you quote - mediocre SQ and $329 plus tax at best buy doesn't work for me.  I cancelled my preorder of the Jaybirds in favor of the Bose.  I'll report back here when I get them.


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## webreaper

You're right, of course, there is little or no reason to switch to wireless, _really_. But I just had to replace my IE80 cables, which had worn out (they seem to last 8-10 months on average); I bought a set on Amazon for £12, and 24hrs after they arrived the sound stopped working in the left ear.  So it just feels like a sign that perhaps I should look elsewhere and see if wireless is an option. As you say, lots of the big manufacturers are starting to get in on the act, and things are getting interesting. I suspect that we'll only see the full picture at the end of the year, but the promise is there. 

Jaybird Run sounds like it should make the shortlist, until you read the connectivity issues: https://gizmodo.com/these-completely-wireless-jaybird-headphones-are-almost-1803758431 - at which point they drop onto the "not even with a bargepole" shortlist.


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## Griffith

For critical listening I think we're nowhere close but for working out/commuting I think most of today's offerings are adequate. If you are used to say $100+ earphones I don't think there's any wireless option that comes close.


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## clerkpalmer

Agreed.  Adequate is the right term but we always searching for improvements right?  Some "regular" wireless IEMs are approaching the SQ.  The new MA750 wireless and the VModa Forza Metallo Wireless come pretty close to offering the SQ of $100 IEMs.


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## webreaper

Except that neither of those are 'wireless'. 

I can't see the point whatsoever of having wireless IEMs that have wires. Seems to me you have all the downsides of tangled cables, worn cables at the bud shell joint (particularly if worn over-the-ear) that need to be replaced, plus worse connectivity, low battery life, but none of the upsides of wired IEMs (better SQ and sound sync).


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## clerkpalmer

You're making a good case for me to sell my MA750s and buy some 1more triples or quads...


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## Griffith

As a general piece of advice, and this is coming from my limited experience. I tried a few of the more well praised Bluetooth IEMs right here on head-fi a few years ago (Plantronics Backbeat Pro, Brainwavz Blu100, Sony SBH80) and only one of them (the Sony SBH80) offered sound quality that made me think of "these sound decent". In all other Bluetooth earphones I tried one of the first thoughts I'd say to myself was "well, these don't sound too bad for a wireless earphone". The Sony were the first that made me go: "Alright, these sound okay, they have a similar quality to some of my budget IEMs".

Since that time my Sony broke, I try to avoid using my other earphones because frankly I don't think they sound good and both are immensely poorly tuned as sports/outdoors earphones with more focus on the highs rather than the bass and with a rather cold and airy presentation that is very lacking in detail and grainy sounding.

With those things in mind, right now what I use for my wireless fix are MMCX or 2-pin bluetooth modules that I plug to some of my favorite budget IEMs and those sound significantly better than any current or previous Bluetooth earphone I have and they cost significantly less while being more versatile. The Tennmak Pro and the KZ ZST are two examples of such earphones I enjoy using for sports with a bluetooth module and I'd sooner recommend an option like that than a purely-bluetooth earphone that will eventually become worthless once the battery dies out.


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## -sandro-

What about the problem about the compression from BT codec?


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## Griffith

-sandro- said:


> What about the problem about the compression from BT codec?



It's still there, but fact of the matter is that even a budget chinese IEM sounds immensely better compressed than most of the crappy drivers other Bluetooth IEMs I've tried have.


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## datranz

i don't think we are there yet until bt5 is fully implemented.


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## -sandro-

how are those cheap xiaomi iems?


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## webreaper

That's why the liberty+ are interesting. But of course most phones don't have BT5....


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## midoo1990 (Sep 22, 2017)

I have been using JBL bluetooth for the past few months and its honestly fantastic. 8 Hours battery life, water resistant and more importantly sounds great. I actually came today to the forums to look for any impressions on the new shure line but im a little bit confused as i still cant find the sub section for IEMs.

I do think wireless is going to be very popular next year especially since smartphones are abandoning headphone jacks and tbh, wireless is just much more convenient outside of the house and the sound is very good. If you are not in a hurry, i would advice to wait till early 2018 when wireless headphones and earphones support bluetooth 5.0 as it will be huge step in sound and range.
I have xperia XZ premium that have 5.0 but im not going to drop $200+ on wireless until it supports it


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## clerkpalmer

Does 5.0 offer any actual audio improvements?  I have read mixed reports.  AptxHD maybe requires 5.0?


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## Griffith (Sep 22, 2017)

clerkpalmer said:


> Does 5.0 offer any actual audio improvements?  I have read mixed reports.  AptxHD maybe requires 5.0?



If my understanding of Bluetooth is correct, there are two modes of Bluetooth, a low power mode and a high power mode. The low power mode got a considerable boost to the bitrate compared to Bluetooth 4.2. From what I understand, and correct me if I'm wrong, wireless earphones use the high-power Bluetooth mode which didn't see significant improvements in terms of bitrate so, if my understanding is correct, there should not be a significant and considerable difference from Bluetooth 4.2 and 5.0 earphones in terms of sound quality.

Again, this is my current understanding, so correct me if I'm wrong.

Edit: I checked a few sources to confirm my understanding and my conclusion is, apparently, correct, but my wording was not.

According to a video I just watched there will be an audio streaming mode coming to low power Bluetooth but that Bluetooth mode has a lower maximum bitrate than the high power one so, while there might be a considerable increase in battery life for some Bluetooth earphones, if they are using this new low power audio streaming mode, the audio quality should be even worse.


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## datranz (Sep 22, 2017)

http://www.mouser.com/pdfdocs/bluetooth-5-faq.pdf

http://www.rfwireless-world.com/Terminology/Bluetooth-5-vs-bluetooth-4-2.html

Low power has 2x bt4.2 (2Mbps vs 1Mbps) bandwidth with 4x range.


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## Griffith (Sep 22, 2017)

datranz said:


> http://www.mouser.com/pdfdocs/bluetooth-5-faq.pdf
> 
> Low power has 2x bt4.2 bandwidth with 4x range.



That's not entirely true. You don't get 2x the speed and 4x the range you get *up to *2x the speed *OR* up to 4x the range (_at a much slower and diminishing bitrate_). There is a lot of misinformation going around about how good Bluetooth 5 is. Don't get me wrong, it is a nice improvement but whenever a new version of Bluetooth comes out there is a tendency to exaggerate how good it actually is. This video does a good job of clearing some of the exaggerations and misconceptions:



The high-range/distance Bluetooth mode immediately drops down speed to 100 kilobit per second which is quite a drop from the low power mode (which is around 2mbit per second which isn't actually 2mbit per second because data is send in packages instead of streaming but that's yet another disingenuous can of worms)

Bluetooth 5 is better faster and can reach longer distances but those things are not true at the same time and not all the Bluetooth modes share the same benefits. There are a lot of caveats.

The point of the matter is, you should take whatever the Bluetooth SIG group says with a grain of salt (or a spoon of it in my opinion) and Bluetooth 5 is certainly not a ticket to wireless audiophilia. It will improve some aspects of wireless products but it isn't likely to improve sound quality. Any sort of improvements in that regard will have to come from codecs as that mode of Bluetooth data transfer remains more or less the same.


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## datranz

^^^ good video with real world test.   The extra bandwidth is real and will benefit greatly although the range can be a big iffy.


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## Griffith

I apologize for editing my post a bunch of times but I wanted to make sure to include as much information to clear misconceptions about the protocol.


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## webreaper

It's not about audio improvement. It's about power reduction and increased connection reliability.


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## Griffith

webreaper said:


> It's not about audio improvement. It's about power reduction and increased connection reliability.



Just as an extra note, more reliability, better connectivity, solving connectivity issues, improving pairing with multiple devices, etc are all sorts of promises that the Bluetooth SIG has made with past iterations of Bluetooth and they turned out to be false. I'm not saying that will be the case with Bluetooth 5, but I stand by what I said that we should take their promises and claims with a grain of salt. I already exemplified in the video above that some of their claims are not true and I wouldn't be surprised if those claims you just mentioned had some degree of falseness to them as well.


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## webreaper

Totally. I was referring to the aspirations, not necessarily the reality.


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## cresny

I recently changed phones from a Nexus 6p to a Pixel with Android 8, and my car BT receiver supports aptx. To my ears the sound was noticably better. Anyone else think aptx makes much of a difference?


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## clerkpalmer

Yes absolutely. 


cresny said:


> I recently changed phones from a Nexus 6p to a Pixel with Android 8, and my car BT receiver supports aptx. To my ears the sound was noticably better. Anyone else think aptx makes much of a difference?


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## joshnor713

clerkpalmer said:


> AptxHD maybe requires 5.0?



No. LG has been using Aptx HD in their flagship smartphones a while now. BT 5.0 debuted with the Galaxy S8 this year. The only benefit I heard is being able to pair to stream to two devices at the same time. Maybe extended range too? Beside the point


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## -sandro-

Infact I thought that aptx hd was the thing to look for not bt5 because of a better codec?


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## ThomasHK

BT5.0. does not improve the A2DP protocol (i.e. Audio streaming) in any way.

The range and throughput  improvements are for BLE. Nothing to do with audio.

There have been recent improvements to the true wireless algorithm which these latest devices will benefit from (better connection reliability). But again, nothing to do with 5.0.


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## david8613 (Sep 23, 2017)

Hello all I haven't been here in awhile. I have to say although bt is not perfect, sound quality and connectivity has improved immensely from the first bt heaphones I had many years a go. Right now the best true wireless headphones I use are the Samsung iconx, good sound, great connectivity, cool tap/swipe features that work, I use them everyday in the gym. The only negative thing is battery life is short 1 hour 30 mins if you stream, if you use the 4 gig on board memory you get 3 hours.i use jaybird x3 for back up. I tried them all, bragi dash was the worst, expensive, poor sound and connectivity was atrocious out doors. Samsung is bringing out a newer iconx 2018 version in November 5 hours battery, lighter, type c charging and some other small improvements. I strictly only use wireless headsets, truly wireless is awesome I can't wait to see what we get in 2018.


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## noxa

But if a thread revival but it seems the Jabra sport elite are lightyears ahead of the competition at the moment. I’m thinking of jumping on a pair but the new B&O are making me have second thoughts. See I need them for the gym purely so SQ although has to be good it isn’t my main priority and it seems the Jabra nail everything else, amazing connectivity, water proof to 1m, 3 year warranty against water ingress and heart rate monitor and VO2 calculator.

The new Bose we’re a strong contender but a Q2 UK release date is ridiculous imo.


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## clerkpalmer

I was eying the Beoplay as well but I agree with your concerns.  Best I could find on the website was "designed to be resist sweat" which doesn't instill confidence.  That and the H5 were advertised as gym friendly and the ergonomics on those were horrible.  I preordered the bose the minute they were released.  They promised an "early October " release.  Well, they are now telling me 3-4 weeks.  Ordered on 9/21.  Their customer support is truly terrible.  Typical runaround "demand exceeded expectations.".  Maybe be at $250 a pop I would think the market is somewhat limited.  I'll report back here when (if) I receive them.  They do look promising for gym use.  The soundsports sound great.


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## noxa

I’ve actually just read a hands on but not listened to review and it states that a B&O rep told him that they were in no way meant for gym or sport use, the ‘splash’ resistance is apparently sudden rain and the like so certainly not on my radar anymore. The Bose look fantastic and I’m sure they’ll at least match the best out there at the moment but likely far outceed. Very disappointed that Europe won’t get for at least 5 months!


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## MIBUK

The B&Os & Sony true wireless aren’t designed for fitness people. The Jabra Elites  & Bragi Dash Pro have had good reviews, but I don’t need all the extras, just for music + cost is high for what appears to be average sound. The Headphones from Bragi seemed like a good option, but some reviews mention dropouts.

Have been waiting on Trinity’s Phantom Airs, but based on reports, it’s a mixed bag and unsure when I’ll receive them.

So, in conclusion, I looked for a cheap wireless and opted for the Oycsc S2s. For the price, they’re worth a risk and will hold onto those until someone releases what I want from true wireless.


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## noxa

I agree I think. Really not sure atm why you’d want to go fully wireless except for the need due to sports or gym usage but to each their own on that subject. 

The Bragi are a strange proposition as the translation feature and gesture nonsense mean zero to me and drop outs are totally inexcusable imo. 

At the moment I’m thinking of picking up the Jabra with their 3 year warranty and accepting the best of a bad bunch so to speak and by the time they’re ready for the bin the technology will have advanced we’ll hopefully have a fully finished product at last. If I do end up getting the Jabra in the next few days I’ll post here what I think of them.


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## clerkpalmer

Jabras are solid. Rock solid connection and great fit. Biggest drawback is sound quality. It's decent but not great. Acceptable for gym but beyond that I'd never choose them over oher options. I'm banking on he Bose being a big improvement on sq.


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## webreaper

I'm looking forward to seeing what the reviews of the Beoplay E8s come out like (they're released next week). Pricey, but tempted if they have a stable connection.


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## noxa

Clerk, what the general signature of the Jabra? I’ve heard a bit bassy which is fine for a gym phone but warm overall? Recessed mids etc. Any thoughts would be great. I really think the Bose will be the ones to beat on an SQ level but as a pure gym phone I’m finding the Jabra on paper at least quite hard to pass up.

On a side note the only music I listen to in the gym is hip hop and edm so with that in mind thoughts anyone on the Jabra


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## david8613

Any other new truely wireless headphones we should be looking out for?


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## Ike1985

Call me paranoid but I don't want all that Bluetooth right next to my brain.


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## MIBUK

The Jaybird Run looked like a great option until I read The Verge and a couple of other reviewers. They seem to suffer from dropouts, unless you have the phone on your arm while running. Shame, as I’ve been happy with their Bluebuds X.

I find it very odd that a trusted company (imho) would release something that isn’t ready. They’re not released yet, so maybe the final version will be fine. We’ll see.


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## clerkpalmer

noxa said:


> Clerk, what the general signature of the Jabra? I’ve heard a bit bassy which is fine for a gym phone but warm overall? Recessed mids etc. Any thoughts would be great. I really think the Bose will be the ones to beat on an SQ level but as a pure gym phone I’m finding the Jabra on paper at least quite hard to pass up.
> 
> On a side note the only music I listen to in the gym is hip hop and edm so with that in mind thoughts anyone on the Jabra



Bass heavy. A little thin sounding. High end is rolled off. They are fine for the gym. I tried a lot true wireless and I'd put them in the average sq camp. I think they are a great buy particularly on sale. They sell refurbished versions on eBay from Jabra direct. Can get some good deals.


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## clerkpalmer

Ike1985 said:


> Call me paranoid but I don't want all that Bluetooth right next to my brain.


You are paranoid....


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## noxa

Lovely thank you for that, sounds like they’re good enough for what I’m looking for tbh at least in the interim. I think this is a slight case of form over function as all other aspects seem pretty great on them and SQ is good enough for purpose. And for certain, I wouldn’t want to pay full retail on them, certainly be looking for a deal on them.


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## ianwill

david8613 said:


> Any other new truely wireless headphones we should be looking out for?



Optoma's NuForce BE Free8. I have the Primo8 and absolutely love them


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## clerkpalmer

ianwill said:


> Optoma's NuForce BE Free8. I have the Primo8 and absolutely love them


Glowing review on sound guys but second review caused me to hold off. Techradar I think. I like the form factor and price.


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## lostman (Oct 9, 2017)

I saw something called NuForce BE Free 8 on some Japanese sites:
http://www.e-earphone.jp/shop/shopdetail.html?brandcode=000000154608

Looks interesting and NuForce should know how to make it sound good. Curious to try them out.

My problem is that nothing fits my crooked ears 

I tried Bragi Dash Pro and thy didn't fit at all. Was rather disappointed. I'm hoping maybe Earn M2 will do, given that they are tiny and the insertion is a bit different.

Tried AirPods but the sound was meh and isolation poor.

Google Pixel Buds look interesting and are the tether between them looks OK (given that there's nothing on it, no buttons or pods).


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## webreaper

They're available in the USA (somebody mentioned them earlier in the thread):

https://www.amazon.com/NuForce-Wireless-Premium-Earphones-charging/dp/B075GG9GH8
https://techcrunch.com/2017/10/03/o...s-headphones-are-a-smart-airpods-alternative/


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## noxa

Early impressions seem to suggest a V sig that’s ahead of the pack in SQ, again doesn’t look particularly impressive for sport as regards to secure fit. The few impressions I’ve read all seem to state a frequent drop out in connection, maybe it’s just that pre release models, let’s hops so but from an SQ position look promising.


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## lostman (Oct 9, 2017)

There was an interesting set of earphones that had ear-hook design and were targeted at sporty audience. But I can't find it right now. They had Kickstarter or Indiegogo recently. Truly wireless and the "trick" was that the part behind the earlobe would be magnetically attracted to the part in front for a secure lock. Cool idea. I didn't order a pair because I want high-end SQ rather than sporty fit.

EDIT: can't find it anywhere. Maybe it failed and got scrubbed of the internet? Or just can't dig it up.


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## noxa

Sol Republic Amps Air? Couple of the reviews I’ve read seem pretty favourable. Maybe we need a definitive list of options available and whether they’re worth a look or best avoided.


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## clerkpalmer

lostman said:


> I didn't order a pair because I want high-end SQ rather than sporty fit.



I want both.


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## noxa

^^ Agreed, if SQ is the only concern why bother with wireless, too many trade offs for next to no advantages apart from thinking it looks futuristic and cool, just imo.


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## clerkpalmer

I tried a bunch of the first round of true wireless including bragi, Samsung, onkyo and some kickstarter types.  The SQ on all of them was a major compromise even from normal BT so I stopped buying them and settled on the elite sport as the best of a mediocre bunch.  I'm excited for improvements now that the big players are getting involved.  Really excited about the Bose.


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## noxa

Skybuds, Doppler Labs, so many new options I keep finding, there are far more than I first thought.


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## clerkpalmer

noxa said:


> Skybuds, Doppler Labs, so many new options I keep finding, there are far more than I first thought.


I tried the Dopplers too.  SQ was okay - battery was horrendous.  Died on a plane in under an hour.  What a joke.


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## lostman

Canibalize AirPods for the electronics and put it in custom CIEM with 1-3 BA drivers? I wonder if that would work


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## webreaper

Anyone pre-order the BeoPlay E8s? They're supposed to be available from today. Amazon have gone from 'pre-order' to 'temporarily out of stock' this morning.


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## MIBUK (Oct 12, 2017)

I received an email from them this morning stating that the black version is now available in stores and online. I can’t find any reviews on them with regards to sound and connection over BT. Anyway, Inwant a sports version, which they say it isn’t designed for.

Bought some cheap Oycsc S2s from Amazon uk as a temporary set until What Inwant is available on the market within 6-12mths. They haven’t dropped connection once. Some of the companies that are releasing true wireless that have dropouts, should open them up to see how they do it. The sound is okay, but using the equaliser in Spotify, they’re quite good. For £40, I can’t complain.

Check them out via a review on YouTube. Search for Diglot S2. They’re exactly the same as the ones I have.


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## david8613 (Oct 12, 2017)

I just picked these billboard truewireless buds in a Burlington store for 20.00! Not too bad, they get very loud, louder than my iconx, they have strong highs and mids, ok bass, but doesn't go very deep, icons go deeper. keeps decent bt connection so far, no charging case, not sure how long they really last gonna test them today. The funny thing is I can't fiind any information on them but they look alot like these. I hope they battery last as long as the ones in the video.


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## noxa

I just ordered some Sol Republic Air Amps, got them dirt cheap from Hong Kong so worth a punt. From reviews they sound like they could be enough for me until something amazing comes out in the future. I’ll post general sound, fit and connection impressions here when they arrive


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## clerkpalmer (Oct 12, 2017)

My bose just arrived.  First impressions are that these are the real deal.  If you have used Soundsport Wireless then you are basically getting those in a true wireless form factor.  I am a big fan of the Soundsport sound signature.  Punchy bass and fun.  These sound virtually identical.  Biggest concern is that I had multiple pairs of Soundsports fail due to sweat.  Bose replaced 3 sets for me last year.  I hope these are designed to withstand sweat better.  I actually have hope because there is no open USB on these which is always the fail point on these.  SQ is the best I've heard on true wireless to date that includes Bragi, Airpods, Onkyo and others.  These are the first pair I've heard that don't feel like a compromise on SQ.  I'll give Bose a lot of credit here.  The fit and finish is superb. The case feels solid and the earphones snap into place via magnet so no fumbling around to ensure they connect.  They connected to my phone immediately.  These are worth the money.  Even if the beoplays sound better, the lack of waterproofing is a deal breaker for me.


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## webreaper

Connectivity issues? How do they fair when you walk around (particularly outdoors). Any dropouts?


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## clerkpalmer (Oct 12, 2017)

webreaper said:


> Connectivity issues? How do they fair when you walk around (particularly outdoors). Any dropouts?


 haven't gotten that far with them yet.  Will report back.  The PC Mag review was positive on this front.  Not like bose to release something half baked (and I'm not a bose fan per se).


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## webreaper

Thanks. Look forward to hearing your experience. If they're anything close to the claimed 5 hours + 10 hours charge, they'd work well for me. 

Would also love to hear whether they have any lag or are suitable for watching movies.


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## noxa

If Bose didn’t screw Europe I’d own these now but alas I can’t buy another Bose product after this nonsense, how it takes 6 months to ship to a distributor in Europe is beyond me but that’s a matter for a different day. 

They were always going to be good, for now I’ll have to wait till some of the other big manufacturers release something of note.

Glad you’re liking them! Seems like the ones to beat then atm.


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## noxa (Oct 12, 2017)

I certainly don’t want to derail a good thread but any customers waiting for these in Europe please message Bose and say they’re quite frankly taking the P*** out of you. I asked the question and basically got a message back that said the US is they’re biggest market and that’s what they care about, then stated some non existent EU law as a reason it takes 6 months to extend sales here which is non sense. Spend your money on a company that wants your business is my advice.

Gets off soap box and continues to enjoy the impressions.


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## david8613

Ok, first run through with the cheapie bill board truewireless. Battery lasted roughly an 11/2 hour. Gonna charge them again and run through a second time. Highs and mids are strong, has bass but not strong nor deep, just enough, they can get really loud. At high volume not a fun signature too cold and sharp, lower volume its ok. Ill keep them as gym back up if anything.


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## clerkpalmer

noxa said:


> I certainly don’t want to derail a good thread but any customers waiting for these in Europe please message Bose and say they’re quite frankly taking the P*** out of you. I asked the question and basically got a message back that said the US is they’re biggest market and that’s what they care about, then stated some non existent EU law as a reason it takes 6 months to extend sales here which is non sense. Spend your money on a company that wants your business is my advice.
> 
> Gets off soap box and continues to enjoy the impressions.



I'm not fan of Bose customer service.  I preordered these the first day they became available for an "early October" delivery.


noxa said:


> I certainly don’t want to derail a good thread but any customers waiting for these in Europe please message Bose and say they’re quite frankly taking the P*** out of you. I asked the question and basically got a message back that said the US is they’re biggest market and that’s what they care about, then stated some non existent EU law as a reason it takes 6 months to extend sales here which is non sense. Spend your money on a company that wants your business is my advice.
> 
> Gets off soap box and continues to enjoy the impressions.



Bose could definitely step up their customer service.  When I inquired about my preorder, they gave me some nonsense about a first batch and second batch and my order was in the second batch set to be delivered in 4 weeks.  I pressed them on it noting I preordered on Day 1 and further noting that I don't think any "first" batch orders were delivered to anyone since there are virtually no reports of anyone having these.  Eventually, a supervisor got involved and said that was a mistake and 3 to 4 weeks was for new orders only.  Definitely some nonsense.  Sucks about the EU.


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## noxa

^^ couldn’t agree more, business decisions are one thing and that’s fine but telling me non sense about an EU regulation that simply doesn’t exist is ridiculous to me, someone better tell all the other US and Japanese manufacturers that seem to be able to either simultaneously release or at least within the same year! I mean 6 months is ludicrous and I doubt there is anyone that thinks otherwise. I just feel a bit let down not only by the actions but also the response I received. The whole every customer worldwide is just as important to Bose....... well quite clearly not.

On a better note I’d be really interested in general impressions when you know how’s you feel Clerk as you seem to be leading the pack here on opinions having tried a fair few models now.


----------



## david8613

Were did you get the Republic Air Amps, for cheap from Hong kong?think you can post pics of the boss in your ears, from pics I have seen they seem on the large size, how long  is the battery life streaming? Is it truely 5 hours? I'm looking to get these or the updated iconx due for preorder soon.


----------



## clerkpalmer

Update: 45 minute on treadmill. Rock solid. Didn't move a mm. No breaks. Haven't tried outside. Noticed VERY slight latency on Netflix. Not too bad. Biggest issues are tied to open ear design. Lots of sound comes in which can degrade sound quality. My gym is pretty quiet so not an issue but could be for noisy commutes. Other drawback is they look positively huge. Just like regular bt soundsports. I think the blue ones will look better but they're another not out until late November. My initial opinion hasn't changed. These are the best available that I have tried. Sony and Beoplay might give these a run but not if you need sweat protection. At 249 these beat the elite sports. If elite sports are on sale then it's a closer call. Elite sports offer HR and tracking features and full isolation. Bose is SQ a and comfort.


----------



## david8613

Anyone looking at the new samsung iconx 2018? They are looking really good!


----------



## clerkpalmer

david8613 said:


> Anyone looking at the new samsung iconx 2018? They are looking really good!


Are they released yet?


----------



## rawrster

clerkpalmer said:


> My bose just arrived.  First impressions are that these are the real deal.  If you have used Soundsport Wireless then you are basically getting those in a true wireless form factor.  I am a big fan of the Soundsport sound signature.  Punchy bass and fun.  These sound virtually identical.  Biggest concern is that I had multiple pairs of Soundsports fail due to sweat.  Bose replaced 3 sets for me last year.  I hope these are designed to withstand sweat better.  I actually have hope because there is no open USB on these which is always the fail point on these.  SQ is the best I've heard on true wireless to date that includes Bragi, Airpods, Onkyo and others.  These are the first pair I've heard that don't feel like a compromise on SQ.  I'll give Bose a lot of credit here.  The fit and finish is superb. The case feels solid and the earphones snap into place via magnet so no fumbling around to ensure they connect.  They connected to my phone immediately.  These are worth the money.  Even if the beoplays sound better, the lack of waterproofing is a deal breaker for me.



Would you say these are worth it for someone who has the soundsport wireless? It's hard to justify a $100 price difference just for no cable behind your neck.
I've been hoping for a wireless that isolate with a good battery and good SQ. I'm guessing there's a sacrifice somewhere and it doesn't exist yet.


----------



## clerkpalmer

rawrster said:


> Would you say these are worth it for someone who has the soundsport wireless? It's hard to justify a $100 price difference just for no cable behind your neck.
> I've been hoping for a wireless that isolate with a good battery and good SQ. I'm guessing there's a sacrifice somewhere and it doesn't exist yet.



They don't offer any improvement over the regular soundsport wireless other than no wire. If you like shiny new gadgets it's worth it but fron a strictly cost benefit perspective and if you already have soundsports and like them, then no. If you were comparing both at the store then yes I think 100 is worth to ditch the wire. For me the electronics module tugs at my right ear when I run and causes the bud to slip out. So that's not an issue with the frees.

Beoplay E8 might have the solution you are looking for. Isolation and SQ minus the sweatproof.


----------



## AlwaysForward (Oct 14, 2017)

I’ve read the entire thread and there’s an important point about Bluetooth 5.0 which hasn’t been discussed here yet, in addition to the connection strength & power sippy nature, which is important to true wireless:

more simultaneous connections

From what I understand, this would help the buds speak with each other and also the phone at the same time.

At the end of the day, what BT5 brings is very similar to what Apple’s W1 chip brings: better connections and improved batteries. Those two factors are important in true wireless buds, IMHO.


----------



## webreaper

Really? My understanding was that most of these devices don't use BT for the master/slave connection, but only use it for the master/phone or master/source connection - in which case that feature would have no effect.


----------



## AlwaysForward (Oct 14, 2017)

webreaper said:


> Really? My understanding was that most of these devices don't use BT for the master/slave connection, but only use it for the master/phone or master/source connection - in which case that feature would have no effect.



At the link layer, there is a server/client relationship. Also known as Master/Slave.

Master/phone and master/source are, quite literally. the just master/master because the phone is the server is the slave is the source. Master/Master isn't really an architecture for signal transfer, to the best of my knowledge.

But if the phone can only talk to one of the clients, which how they currently connect, there has to be a wireless peripheral connect; where either the "L" or "R "channel is shared wirelessly from one bud to the next. That first one has the splitter and sends the other stereo channel across to the next bud.

Anyways, BT5 brings pretty much all the cool performance stuff from W1 without the cloud account integration. And that performance stuff is super important for high performance truly wireless buds consumers and reviewers will all be really happy with. Once they start hitting soon (if not already).


----------



## webreaper

What I was meaning is that the master earbud connects to the phone via Bluetooth, whereas if my understanding is correct, most earbud pairs communicate master/slave with a different protocol - not Bluetooth. So the point is that BT5 will help with the phone connection to the master earbud, but won't have an effect on any connection drops between the left/right earbuds. 

But I'm not an expert, so I may be misunderstanding the way all this works. 

It'll certainly be interesting to see whether the Zolo Libertys (which are the first wireless buds with BT5, as far as I'm aware) have significantly better connectivity. That said, the BeoPlay E8s are sounding promising.


----------



## nc8000

Received my Beoplay E8 Thursday and have used them for about 10 hours now and they are just about everything I hoped for. 

Initally there were random drop outs of the left channel (the slave unit) but after a reboot if my iPhone they have had rock solid connection for now 7 hours. 

Comfort is good (have to use the largest silicone tips), operation is great and sound quality is perfectly acceptable. The promissed playtime of 4 hours per charge is about correct and the case holds another 2 charges. Only downside is that they are on the expensive side but that goes for all B&O.


----------



## clerkpalmer

nc8000 said:


> Received my Beoplay E8 Thursday and have used them for about 10 hours now and they are just about everything I hoped for.
> 
> Initally there were random drop outs of the left channel (the slave unit) but after a reboot if my iPhone they have had rock solid connection for now 7 hours.
> 
> Comfort is good (have to use the largest silicone tips), operation is great and sound quality is perfectly acceptable. The promissed playtime of 4 hours per charge is about correct and the case holds another 2 charges. Only downside is that they are on the expensive side but that goes for all B&O.



Would love to hear more thoughts on sq. You says is acceptable but compared to what? Regular bt? True wireless? For 300 I'd hope the sound is superior.  Also does the manual say anything about swear? Thanks.


----------



## nc8000 (Oct 14, 2017)

clerkpalmer said:


> Would love to hear more thoughts on sq. You says is acceptable but compared to what? Regular bt? True wireless? For 300 I'd hope the sound is superior.  Also does the manual say anything about swear? Thanks.



Apart from a different sound signature they are not on level with my qJays V2 but they are not that far off, after 5 minutes of non critucal listening (which is what I got them for) I couldn’t really tell the difference. They are clearly better that AirPods which are the only other Bluetooth I have heard.

The manual just say “The housing of the earphone is made out of textured and highly durable rubber and polymer, designed to resist sweat and water, and wear and tear.”


----------



## clerkpalmer

nc8000 said:


> Apart from a different sound signature they are not on level with my qJays V2 but they are not that far off, after 5 minutes of non critucal listening (which is what I got them for) I couldn’t really tell the difference. They are clearly better that AirPods which are the only other Bluetooth I have heard.
> 
> The manual just say “The housing of the earphone is made out of textured and highly durable rubber and polymer, designed to resist sweat and water, and wear and tear.”


Sounds promising. Thanks.


----------



## tastytofu

I received my E8 yesterday also and have been underwhelmed by it.

Did you have any problems with the pairing process? 

I first connected to my MacBook without any problems and wanted to pair with my iPhone as well. Using their Beoplay app almost bricked the headphones, it would be listed twice under the Bluetooth settings (presumably one from normal BT pairing and another from the Beoplay app's connection) - but neither would actually stream any music. After a while, they automatically reconnected back to my laptop and refused to connect back to my iPhone. For now, I've reset everything and deleted their iOS app - this seemed to handle pairing and changing devices fine, but it was unnecessarily frustrating. I had returned the AirPods previous due to their so-so sound quality, but this experience really makes me appreciate Apple's W1 chip.

I also thought the sound quality was "acceptable" but disappointing for $300. My previous wired IEM was the RHA T20i and I also have the Jaybird X3 for Bluetooth/exercise: I don't think the E8 sounds good as either of those. The bass is great but the mids feel really recessed, giving it a really "muted" or "muffled" sound. This was really disappointing to me, especially coming from the T20i. They also don't get very loud - which I understand might be a limitation from the Bluetooth technology, however 100% loudness on the E8 is about 75% loudness on my Jaybird X3. 

I'm still debating if I should put up with these shortcomings and keep the E8, or exchange them for the AirPods, or get a dongle for my T20i.


----------



## david8613 (Oct 14, 2017)

Yes the samsung iconx 2018 are available on samsung usa site for preorder right now. best buy is supposed to follow but its not on best buy website yet. Im fully enjoying my iconx 2017 except for battery life 1.5 hours, the new iconx 2018 is supposed to solve that problem, with 5 hours stream, 7 hours with on board music. My iconx 2017 sound great, I'm wondering with the improvements on the iconx 2018 if they also improved on sound quality that would be great!


----------



## Iron-Buddha

Picked up the Beoplay E8 at the local B&O store yesterday.   So far I'm pretty impressed.   Haven't done any critical listening yet, since I didn't buy them for that.   Just running around town wire free with my music going.   Pairing was no problem with my iPhone and my MBP but it didn't want to connect to my Razer Blade.   The ability to use one ear only is also handy (without having the left ear piece dangling around my shoulder).   Just going off memory, I think the Jaybird Freedoms sound slightly better, but I had 3 units fail on me and gave up on them.   Transparency mode, which was a big selling feature for me, wasn't that great.  You could avoid getting hit by a car, but I couldn't have a conversation with them.  Build quality and finish is typical B&O, in other words, feels and looks great.  I haven't played with other true wireless headsets, but as an entry point, it's promising for my use case.   I have my portable audiophile setup for longer sessions and my E8 for everyday life.


----------



## nc8000

I bought the E8 exclusively to use round and about on the go with Tidal streaming and Audible audio books and for that they seem just about perfect. Didn’t want Airpod for the open nature and lack of isolation and did not want any ANC.


----------



## webreaper

nc8000 said:


> Didn’t want Airpod for the open nature and lack of isolation and did not want any ANC.


Plus the Airpods look daft.


----------



## clerkpalmer (Oct 14, 2017)

nc8000 said:


> Apart from a different sound signature they are not on level with my qJays V2 but they are not that far off, after 5 minutes of non critucal listening (which is what I got them for) I couldn’t really tell the difference. They are clearly better that AirPods which are the only other Bluetooth I have heard.
> 
> The manual just say “The housing of the earphone is made out of textured and highly durable rubber and polymer, designed to resist sweat and water, and wear and tear.”


Definitely sleeker looking than the Bose. Bose are NOT cool looking. But better still than airpods. All the promos are from the side. They definitely stick out a lot.


----------



## david8613

I have to ask can u actually  hear improve sound quality from services like tidal over bluetooth headsets?


----------



## clerkpalmer

clerkpalmer said:


> Does 5.0 offer any actual audio improvements?  I have read mixed reports.  AptxHD maybe requires 5.0?



Just my opinion but aptx using tidal does seem to sound better if the headset supports it. I don't believe Bose uses aptx fwiw.


----------



## nc8000

david8613 said:


> I have to ask can u actually  hear improve sound quality from services like tidal over bluetooth headsets?



I dont know but since the signal gets aac encoded but Tidal being uncompressed from the start must have an advantage. Spotify gets decoded and then encoded again whereas Tidal only gets encoded so only one compression. However on the go with general ambient noice I’m not sure how much it matters.


----------



## david8613

Im about to pre order the Samsung gear iconx 2018 on samsungs website. I was waiting for best buy but they have not put them up as of yet. What do you guys think are the chances for the iconx 2018 to go on sale for black Friday? I'm doubting it.


----------



## noxa (Oct 17, 2017)

Well I got my Sol Air Amps this morning, can say I’m highly highly impressed. Packaging is lovely, case and bud build quality is far beyond what I expected. Opened them, paired them to each other, then to my phone, took all of 7 seconds, never a drop out, never a glitch so far so very impressed.

Fit is for me plenty secure enough, the tips that were in them are perfect. They are quite large and I wouldn’t want to wear for hours and hours on end but for an hour and a half weight session plenty comfy enough.

As they only use these rubber grooves to stay secure me personally HIIT perhaps maybe too much but heavy weight session was fine.

Sound, more than good enough for gym, I’d happily listen to these all day and wouldn’t pine for more. Very bassy but not too flabby and certainly not flat single note bass.

Highs have just enough sparkle to not sound flat but allow higher volumes without being sibilant or piercing in any way.

Mids a tiny bit recessed making them more U shaped than V shaped imo.

Those looking for something for hip hop, EDm modern pop etc, with convenience of 45 hours charge time on the case, and the case can be used as a phone charger in a squeeze with a more than adequate fit for moderate movement needs I have to say highly recommended.

Just a quick observation incase anyone was interested, I’m sure I’ll form more opinions over the next week or so.


----------



## david8613 (Oct 17, 2017)

I'm currently trying out the jam ultra truewireless buds. If you like bass and lots of it, then this is the truewireless ear bud to get, I tried a few true wireless buds like the Jabra elite, Samsung iconx, bragi dash, sol amp airs, jaybird x3, Plantronics, cheap Chinese ones, and these jams ultra beat them all with BASS! it goes unbelievable deep, ear buds are not supposed to go so deep! I would say the other frequencies do suffer some from all this bass but not so bad that you cannot enjoy them. These would be great for gym duty or back ups, not critical listening. I am going to put a quick and dirty cons and pros list here. hope this helps some....

PROS
Did I mention these have tons of bass. if your a bass head and want true wireless get these. they remind of beats headphones or the sony extra bass headphones.
Price 99.00 is pretty cheap compared to the competition.
Very light buds, not heavy on the ears.
Sweat proof.
Fit is good, they don't stick out much.
Battery life is rated 3 hours I got a about 3 hours and 40 mins. the first time out, not bad at all.
The Jams can get very loud.
Charging case has 10 more charges plus you can charge other devices with it.
Very important, Bluetooth connection is rock solid! The best I have gotten yet. no drop outs at all, indoors or out!
The Jams automatically connect when taken out of case and disconnect when put back into magnetic case, slick.
isolation is almost 100% I cant hear anything with music on, even people talking right next to me, pretty good.


CONS
Build quality is all plastic, that's why its so light.
With all this bass you do lose a lot of details in the highs and mids.
Bass is very strong, thick and deep but lacks texture.
No volume or track controls, just pause, play and answer calls.
Case is a little cheap, looks nice but cheap plastic just like the buds.
At louder sound levels you can hear some distortion, maybe they still need to break in.
should have better indicator lights for charging status on buds and case.
some fatigue when listening for long periods, bass is strong, it rumbles so ears get tired after long sessions.

I am thinking about keeping these as back ups or for when I want some fun with that extra bass.


----------



## pauljc84

I had the Jabra Elite but they hurt my ears so they did not last long.  Any idea when the Earin M2's come out.  Been looking at them for ages!


----------



## clerkpalmer

pauljc84 said:


> I had the Jabra Elite but they hurt my ears so they did not last long.  Any idea when the Earin M2's come out.  Been looking at them for ages!


Vaporware as far as I'm concerned.  I've watched their website and facebook page push the date from April to "Fall 2017".  Clearly they are having issues.  The M1s were actually decent.


----------



## lostman

clerkpalmer said:


> Vaporware as far as I'm concerned.  I've watched their website and facebook page push the date from April to "Fall 2017".  Clearly they are having issues.  The M1s were actually decent.


I'm somewhat optimistic given that it's their *second* product. Good rule of thumb is to never buy the first one!

I can't recall an example where the first version would get stellar reviews. "Good but needs work" is probably the best you can hope for.

Fingers crossed.


----------



## clerkpalmer

lostman said:


> I'm somewhat optimistic given that it's their *second* product. Good rule of thumb is to never buy the first one!
> 
> I can't recall an example where the first version would get stellar reviews. "Good but needs work" is probably the best you can hope for.
> 
> Fingers crossed.


I've been using the Bose now for over week.  They are nearly flawless.  The connection is rock solid.  The sound is way above average for this type of product.  I guess the only drawbacks would be the size and possible sound leak if you need to use in a noisy environment.  Otherwise, I couldn't imagine spending $200 or more on any competing product because I doubt that they could be better.  Again, I don't love Bose but they really nailed it with the Soundsport Free.  I'm sure there will be others that compete eventually but right now, for my money, these are the best there is.


----------



## webreaper

That's excellent news. I'll be getting the Beoplay E8s in the new year then, unless the Zolo Libertys live up to their expectations.


----------



## clerkpalmer

Zolo looks interesting.  Will be interesting to see if the driver and BT 5.0 make any significant enhancements or are just marketing BS.


----------



## nc8000

webreaper said:


> That's excellent news. I'll be getting the Beoplay E8s in the new year then, unless the Zolo Libertys live up to their expectations.



Apart from having to delete the pairing and repair every few days with my iPhone8 to avoid drop outs in the left side the E8 is near perfect for me


----------



## Griffith

clerkpalmer said:


> Zolo looks interesting.  Will be interesting to see if the driver and BT 5.0 make any significant enhancements or are just marketing BS.



This has already been discussed and explained in the first pages of this thread. BT5 makes zero improvements to sound quality. Any improvements that do come will be from better DAC decoders or plugins like Aptx and the like. There are no improvements to the amount of data that can be transmitted for Bluetooth's classic mode, only Bluetooth's low power mode which has a lower bitrate than Classic.


----------



## david8613

Ok still messin' with the jam ultras, battery is solid gets more battery time than what is stated on brochure consistently. On my 3rd charge from this little box with out charging as of yet. Bluetooth connection is another plus! Its fantastic! outside, inside, left pocket, right pocket, back pocket, floor, fanny pack it doesnt matter, no drop outs at all, bragi could learn a thing or two from jam in that department. Sound quality is not the very best, very fat, heavy bass but very listenable. Perfect for hip hop, and bassy music  After using the jams, and then reverting back to jaybird x3, the jaybirds now sounded very high pitched, very trebly, even with bass way up on them, Its
Wierd.

Why no love for the new Samsung iconx 2018, they tic alot of boxes and the prior iconx sounded great to me. Can't wait until they drop on the 27th.


----------



## clerkpalmer

Griffith said:


> This has already been discussed and explained in the first pages of this thread. BT5 makes zero improvements to sound quality. Any improvements that do come will be from better DAC decoders or plugins like Aptx and the like. There are no improvements to the amount of data that can be transmitted for Bluetooth's classic mode, only Bluetooth's low power mode which has a lower bitrate than Classic.


Understood.  They also advertise having a graphene driver whatever on earth that means.


----------



## clerkpalmer

david8613 said:


> Why no love for the new Samsung iconx 2018, they tic alot of boxes and the prior iconx sounded great to me. Can't wait until they drop on the 27th.



I thought the SQ on the original iconx was passable at best but the fit and form is pretty good.  I was disappointed that Sammy isn't advertising any improvements in that regard.


----------



## david8613 (Oct 20, 2017)

yeah iconx were great except the battery was life was horrendous at 1 hour 30 mins, it was enough for gym but that's it. Samsung addressed that problem by boosting the new version with 5 hours streaming and 7 hours using on board 4 gig memory which is another plus. on the original fit was great for me, touch controls were excellent and intuitive, sound was good too better than bragi for me, sweat proof no problems there, connection was always great. I hope one day someone could break that 6 hour mark that would be so good. I wish samsung could add an equalizer to the gear app like jaybird x3 have, it is very useful. the only thing I am not crazy about is the new charging case, it looks like it is tad smaller but it only charges the buds once from what I read I could be wrong. I see other cases charge the buds multiple times, the jam supposedly charges 10 times, but I haven't gotten that far yet with the ones I am testing now. the one thing that's good about the newer Samsung charger case is it charges by type c cable much faster to charge up. also the new inconx buds get an hour worth of charge in just15 mins I believe. I think I read  the zolo liberty only have 3.5 hours, so that's off my list...

I'm curious I was so bummed how bad the bragi dash were with sound quality and constantly losing Bluetooth connection, I didn't even bother to try the bragi dash pro because I felt so burned by them. anyone here using the newer bragi dash pro with out any problems?

what are the models with the longest battery life, I know the Jabra elites last pretty long.


----------



## doud72

lostman said:


> There was an interesting set of earphones that had ear-hook design and were targeted at sporty audience. But I can't find it right now. They had Kickstarter or Indiegogo recently. Truly wireless and the "trick" was that the part behind the earlobe would be magnetically attracted to the part in front for a secure lock. Cool idea. I didn't order a pair because I want high-end SQ rather than sporty fit.
> 
> EDIT: can't find it anywhere. Maybe it failed and got scrubbed of the internet? Or just can't dig it up.


hi lostman, i think you're looking gor the EOZ Air : https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/eozaudio/eoz-air-worlds-most-advanced-true-wireless-earphon


----------



## lostman

doud72 said:


> hi lostman, i think you're looking gor the EOZ Air : https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/eozaudio/eoz-air-worlds-most-advanced-true-wireless-earphon


No, I was thinking about these:
http://earshotheadphones.com
Weird and cool design actually. Shame they didn't take off.


----------



## Jerda

Hello everybody!
Sry, didn't have the time right now to read every page but I got a question: I'm interested about buying a pair of IEM (I'm thinking about nuforce edc or brainwavz or something in between, still have to study IEMs options with this budget so suggest open if you want) and I've seen a dude that has cut the jaybird x3s wire to put MMCX endings so he can now use Bluetooth with any IEM with interchangeable wire.
There is a solution in the market like this? Maybe with aptxHD if the SQ could get better? That should be a great idea!


----------



## webreaper

Probably makes sense to start a new thread for your query, but that dude's actions seem a bit drastic. I mean, why not just buy one of these?

https://www.amazon.com/Westone-MMCX-Bluetooth-Cable-78548/dp/B01H3XS2ZQ


----------



## Jerda

In a Bluetooth IEM thread seemed to me a good idea talking about a bluetooth cable to use with any IEM with detachable cable cause. But ok.


----------



## webreaper

That's exactly what that product does. Any IEM with MMXC connectors can be converted to BT/wireless with the Westone unit - and without needing to take scissors to a perfectly good pair of IEMs.


----------



## clerkpalmer

Would love to know whether doing this actually results in better sound or simply end up with the limitations of Bluetooth.  Will these connectors result in better performance than say something like RHA 750 bluetooths or the Vmoda forza metallow wireless? What's the dropoff like using this connector versus wired?


----------



## Jerda (Oct 20, 2017)

YEah, was just talking about opening another thread for the same "Bluetooth IEM" question with the only difference that with these cables you can just swap IEMs.
Thanks for the link
EDIT: going to see if this cable has got aptxHD as I know it is the best bt codec for sq.
It has aptx so ok, until new cables comes it should be the best option


----------



## rawrster

I had the westone cable a while ago and had issues with the bluetooth connection. Once I stepped outside, it would be unreliable. I did like everything else about it however.


----------



## Iron-Buddha

After a lot of testing, my E8's have some serious bass imbalance.   The left channel bass buzzes while the right channel is full and hits hard.   Very disappointing.  Will see what the local B&O store says.  I hope it's not an issue with the magnetic transmission system between the two earpieces.


----------



## nc8000

Iron-Buddha said:


> After a lot of testing, my E8's have some serious bass imbalance.   The left channel bass buzzes while the right channel is full and hits hard.   Very disappointing.  Will see what the local B&O store says.  I hope it's not an issue with the magnetic transmission system between the two earpieces.



I’ve not experienced that with mine


----------



## Iron-Buddha

nc8000 said:


> I’ve not experienced that with mine



Thanks!  I really hope this is a defective unit that can get replaced.  That being said, the local B&O store said they were selling out, so not sure how many replacement units are available.  Very disappointing to say the least.  I thought for the longest time it was a fit issue, but tried just popping the earbuds in the opposite ear with the same issue.


----------



## Outrager

I tried out the Jabra Elite Sport and they were very uncomfortable for my left ear. I tried every fin/tip combination, but wish there was something between the S and M sizes. I ended up returning them. I also see why some people prefer the touch controls. Pushing them farther into my ears to press the buttons can get annoying. I actually found the SQ okay compared to my $30 Xiaomi earphones. They also updated the app with an EQ if you don't want it as bassy, but I felt the default was okay for listening to podcasts.


----------



## david8613 (Oct 23, 2017)

that's the main reason I returned the Jabra elite, jamming the buds in my ear to use controls was very bad for me, did not like that at all, and they felt heavy too.

I just saw on best buy website another truewireless earbud from onkyo model W800BTB/27, anyone seen or heard of these?

The ultra jams I am testing are still kicking strong, zero disconnect I mean zero, I tried indoors, out doors, in my car, in my bathroom, mall, Walmart, target, very busy Bluetooth congested areas and I am telling you these have to have the strongest Bluetooth connection I ever had in an earbud, not sure what version Bluetooth they are using but it really works. I just wish the sound quality could be better, or maybe an app with an eq to adjust all that bass and I wish it had touch controls, all buds should have touch controls.

I am waiting for the Samsung iconx 2018 to show up at best buy so I can pick them up, this week they should be there cannot wait!


----------



## rawrster

I ended up purchasing the bluetooth cable off the UE website and turned my andromeda into bluetooth. I'm planning on purchasing customs soon so these will work well when I'm at work. 

Hopefully there won't be much interference when I step outside. There's an advertised 8 hours with the dongle so hopefully it comes close. 

I did see that plussound also has one with aptx and a longer battery but I didn't want to spend more than I already have and there typically is a long wait them with them.


----------



## monsieurfromag3

I was all over « true wireless » and also very impatient to see Nuforce’s new wireless iem line. Turns out, the Be Free8 is their move into true wireless! I thought I was done for, even more so since I auditioned them and liked what I heard. It’s not the fun but rather understated sound of the Be6i, my gym iems; the Be Free8 are more hefty. Where the Be6i have a slight bump in the bass, the Be Free8 go all out. It’s not out of whack, the other ranges are well represented; but the bump is not in the lower bass, it’s not rumbly, rather somewhere in the mid-bass to really give you that bass kick with a lot of body behind it.

It’s like the Be Free8 themselves have been working out, basically.

But there’s no volume adjustment on the earpieces, only play controls. And there wasn’t any margin there, in an admittedly noisy setting I had to set them at the max. Still better than the Earin 2, which seemed to sound decent but need their app, soon to be released, to output at a normal volume under Android (no such issue with iOS apparently).

Connection quality was great, I could walk around the interference-laden hall without hitches. The low-latency Aptx codec works wonders apparently and keeps both earpieces in perfect sync. The electro-magnetic mode of communication between both earpieces can seem a touch scary however.

Ultimately they don’t feel secure enough in the ear, plus I don’t like having one more EM field around my brain, and the sound is cool but I like the Be6i’s more balanced profile. So my journey towards total wireless will halt for a while. At least I’m not wearing one of those stethoscope-like devices that come with many high-performing iems, just that little rubber cord that keeps adhering to my sweaty neck at the gym and threatens to pull the earpieces out at the worst moments. Sadly too soon for me since I don’t trust Bose, Samsung et al. SQ-wise next to Nuforce. Maybe if Sony gets on that train?


----------



## webreaper

rawrster said:


> I did see that plussound also has one with aptx and a longer battery but I didn't want to spend more than I already have and there typically is a long wait them with them.



Ooooh. Quite tempted by the PlusSound - they look decent quality, decent battery life, and would be compatible with my IE80s, which would mean I keep my custom sleeves and the SQ I'm happy with. This might be a better option than the BeoPlays for me...


----------



## clerkpalmer

webreaper said:


> Ooooh. Quite tempted by the PlusSound - they look decent quality, decent battery life, and would be compatible with my IE80s, which would mean I keep my custom sleeves and the SQ I'm happy with. This might be a better option than the BeoPlays for me...


What IEMs are you guys using with these connectors?  Anything you trust in the gym and can take a little sweat?


----------



## webreaper

Gym? Why would I want to go to somewhere like that?


----------



## rawrster

clerkpalmer said:


> What IEMs are you guys using with these connectors?  Anything you trust in the gym and can take a little sweat?



I'm using campfire audio andromeda. I wouldn't use these while exercising. They are too expensive to risk it. I have my bose soundsport wireless for that


----------



## Iron-Buddha

So my E8's went back for warranty replacement.  Lets see if it's possible to get a properly working unit.

So far though, the case size is just small enough to fit in a pocket.  No sharp corners so comfy to walk around with them in jeans.  The case I put my Vega + XB10 in is just big enough that pocket carry is not really feasible.   The touch controls are better than most alternatives I've seen so far (which either have no controls or really small buttons).   You get volume, playback and transparency.   I did notice that certain things, like magnetic anti-theft systems, commercial fridges, etc. would make the left earpiece kick out.  It may be the faulty left unit or the magnetic technology.   On the positive side, the magnetic field couldn't be that strong given (i) the size of the battery and battery life, and (ii) the type of magnetic things that interfere with it.   This is good news considering I have aneurysm coils in my head.  I'm still in love with the concept.   My Jaybird Freedoms would end up in a tangled mess or have the eartips coming off when pocketed and often be dead when I tried to use them sporadically.  The carry case keeps these juiced up such that I can carry it around for a few days knowing I got at least 4hrs of playtime, can use just the right earpiece to take calls, etc.   

Will wait for the replacement unit before posting a review.   Was going to take them hiking, but not sure if they will get here before it gets too cold!


----------



## gorman

Has anybody on Head-Fi tried the Dash Pro "tailored by Starkey"? https://www.bragi.com/thedashpro/customize/

For me the ease of insertion of CIEMs would be the final cherry on the cake of truly wireless IEMs. I always find tiresome finding a good seal. Did a number with Sugru on my RBH EP-SB to turn them into CIEM but wearing them behind your ears makes the connection very weak and I have to position my smartphone carefully on the right side of my body, lest I get drops in sound.


----------



## gorman (Nov 1, 2017)

Griffith said:


> right now what I use for my wireless fix are MMCX or 2-pin bluetooth modules that I plug to some of my favorite budget IEMs and those sound significantly better than any current or previous Bluetooth earphone I have and they cost significantly less while being more versatile.


Care to share what "bluetooth modules" you're using for this? I'm familiar with just the Westone solution (https://www.westone.com/store/music/index.php/accessories/bluetooth-cable).

Edit: a simple search got me many results. But if you have good experiences with a specific brands I'd be interested to hear about it. PM me if here would be offtopic. TIA.

Edit 2: even for the Westone, which I think is currently the best solution on the market (from what I read), I notice reports of connection problems when worn behind the head. As long as that remains a problem I'll stay with my RBH EP-SB, I guess.


----------



## rawrster

gorman said:


> Care to share what "bluetooth modules" you're using for this? I'm familiar with just the Westone solution (https://www.westone.com/store/music/index.php/accessories/bluetooth-cable).
> 
> Edit: a simple search got me many results. But if you have good experiences with a specific brands I'd be interested to hear about it. PM me if here would be offtopic. TIA.
> 
> Edit 2: even for the Westone, which I think is currently the best solution on the market (from what I read), I notice reports of connection problems when worn behind the head. As long as that remains a problem I'll stay with my RBH EP-SB, I guess.



I had the Westone in the past and worked well other than the connection problems. I bought the UE Jaybird mmcx cable and so far so good. There are some minor skipping every now and then but considerably less than the Westone. (The odd thing is I had the Jaybird X3 for a bit and it was unlistenable due to connection issues however this one is the best I've had from a mmcx adapter. It's the same company so it makes no sense)The issue would be lack of aptx. The other one I was looking at is the plussound cable however I did not want to pay for it.  I got a Mee Audio P2 paired with it now and soon will have a UE4 so it works well for me. It isn't perfect but I'm happy with it.  It's not quite there on matching wired however it is better than in the past.  I could definitely live with it however some may not.


----------



## david8613

Here are some pics I took of the Samsung iconx 2018 and the Sony wf 1000x for your enjoyment...


----------



## david8613

Here are some more


----------



## david8613

Pics are not showing why? I' not getting any error messages...


----------



## clerkpalmer

Which do you prefer? Am I correct Sony offers no sweat protection?


----------



## bd6675

Hey david8613, 

I just purchased the IconX 2018 (haven't received them yet) and I was wondering if there are any issues with the Bluetooth connection dropping while outdoors (like the Bragi Dash is notorious for)?

Thanks in advance


----------



## david8613 (Nov 2, 2017)

I just got them yesterday so still testing, but I did a quick test walking from first floor to third floor with samsung galaxy note 8 phone in pocket, no drop outs yet with Samsung iconx. I did experience 3 right side drop outs walking from office to car with note 8 phone in pocket with the Sony wf 1000x, not good. I will continue testing. I can tell you right off the bat the sonys do sound very good, lots detail, texture and separation, has bass but not too foward. Sony' do not offer sweat protection, Samsung's do have that feature.


----------



## bd6675

Thanks for replying. Would be really interested to hear if you have any dropouts outside with the IconX 2018


----------



## Griffith

gorman said:


> Care to share what "bluetooth modules" you're using for this? I'm familiar with just the Westone solution (https://www.westone.com/store/music/index.php/accessories/bluetooth-cable).
> 
> Edit: a simple search got me many results. But if you have good experiences with a specific brands I'd be interested to hear about it. PM me if here would be offtopic. TIA.
> 
> Edit 2: even for the Westone, which I think is currently the best solution on the market (from what I read), I notice reports of connection problems when worn behind the head. As long as that remains a problem I'll stay with my RBH EP-SB, I guess.



Just search on Aliexpress for "Bluetooth MMCX".


----------



## david8613

Did some testing outdoors with the samsung iconx 2018, no drop outs so far so good, I even switched pockets too see if I can make it happen, good connection, it is better than sony in that regard.


----------



## clerkpalmer

Is the sq on the iconx improved from last year? I thought they were mediocre at best.


----------



## david8613

can someone translate this?


----------



## Fixxer6671

I don't think we are close.  The blue-tooth era is a ways off.  It wins for the phone companies to make a better phone with focus on everything but audio.  Somebody needs to make an audiophile phone. (cough cough apple.)


----------



## Thujan Krishnakumar

What are a good pair of wireless iems that can replace my noble 3s?


----------



## david8613

Ok still testing, second round outside the incox 2018 have no drop outs, features work as advertised. they sound great too, but I had to use some other ear tips i had to get a proper seal. Second round with Sony's I did not have any drop outs this time, the Samsung sound is fuller but Sony's sound has more detail it seems, anc really works but I had to use my own ear tips to make them work right. Guys its so important to get proper seal if not all buds will sound bad. At this point I'm leaning towards Samsung, the controls are great. I'm Gonna put a quick and dirty pros and cons list later for each unit.


----------



## MIBUK

Here's a review from The Verge https://www.theverge.com/2017/10/30/16567980/samsung-gear-iconx-review-2018-wireless-earbuds


----------



## bd6675

Hey david8613, 

Did you by chance use the Comply Truly Wireless ear tips? I used those on my Bragi Dash and the seal was fantastic. I am hoping that they work on the IconX 2018.

Thanks for posting your findings.


----------



## david8613 (Nov 6, 2017)

I love comply tips, I used them on the jam ultras and the original iconx and it was great, but on iconx 2018 for some reason did not work so good i could not insert them in far enough, so i used some other cheap ones that worked.

I read a lot of reviews that had bad information, this echos a lot of what I feel.
this HTML class. Value is https://www.technobu


----------



## Riaz78

Hi guys, has anyone got experience of the Sennheiser Momentum wireless in ear’s (aka HD1) or especially the newer ‘FREE’ models?

https://en-uk.sennheiser.com/headphones-bluetooth-momentum-free

There are a few of us already talking about the Sennheiser Momentum wireless IEMs here:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/sennheiser-momentum-in-ear-wireless-discussion-and-reviews.844234/

The big feature for me in any wireless IEM is APTX support. I use a Samsung G8 and that has APTX.

After reading through lots of IEM/DAC reviews, it seems APTX technology does make a difference to the quality of sound you hear coming out of your wireless IEMs.

Anyone have any thoughts on this?

Cheers
Riaz

p.s. I am on the lookout for some decent wireless IEMs, max budget is £300. The Sennheiser Momentum Free with BT 4,2 and APTX is a front runner so far. Bose QC30 is a close second..


----------



## ivo001

I know the Meizu EP-51 supports APTX, and it is $20-30.


----------



## nc8000

New firmware and new app version out today for the Beoplay E8


----------



## david8613

Ok guys I finally returned the sony wf 1000x, way too many right side drop outs when out doors, unexceptable! Although there was a lot to like especially the sound I cannot keep them. I'm sticking with the iconx 2018, better controls, solid bluetooth, long battery life. I'm gonna post a quick and dirty pros and cons of each unit.


----------



## clerkpalmer

david8613 said:


> Ok guys I finally returned the sony wf 1000x, way too many right side drop outs when out doors, unexceptable! Although there was a lot to like especially the sound I cannot keep them. I'm sticking with the iconx 2018, better controls, solid bluetooth, long battery life. I'm gonna post a quick and dirty pros and cons of each unit.


Would love to hear your thoughts on sound quality in particular.


----------



## Tommy C

david8613 said:


> Ok guys I finally returned the sony wf 1000x, way too many right side drop outs when out doors, unexceptable! Although there was a lot to like especially the sound I cannot keep them. I'm sticking with the iconx 2018, better controls, solid bluetooth, long battery life. I'm gonna post a quick and dirty pros and cons of each unit.



Could it be that you had a faulty unit?
A coworker has a pair and is very happy with them.


----------



## wolfjeanne (Nov 12, 2017)

Seems like truly wireless IEMs are improving leaps and bounds even if there are some hiccups. Still, when I tried the Samsung iconx the other day, the sound quality was not great. I mean, I really respect the audio engineers at Samsung for making a headphone sound so alive, but if I switched back to my wired Crescendo DS11 the accuracy of that set (at half the price) just shows how much of this sound was artificial. For a commute or something I'm sure it's fine though.

Here's my larger qualm with it: if I'm moving around, I usually cary my player (phone or DAP) in my pocket anyway. Why should I then invest in something to gain 'wireless freedom' but at the expense of sound quality and with the added hassle of charging them plus the possibility of lagging audio when I'm watching a video? Replacing my cable once a year, like the OP of this thread, is annoying but I think I'll keep doing it for now until the hype has died down a bit and competition makes the price/performance ratio go up.

EDIT: spelling.


----------



## webreaper

Totally with you there. This thread (and the Sony WF1000X one) have demonstrated that we're probably still 2-3 years from proper wireless IEM tech. Even my friends with AirPods begrudgingly admit that they drop out occasionally. The PlusSound BT cables sounded like a good alternative, but even they have reports of dropouts and lag. The Beoplay E8s sound good, and claims that there's no video lag sound promising, but as you say, the potential for (even infrequent) dropouts, plus video lag, and so on, show we're clearly not there yet, so I'll be sticking with cables for now.


----------



## nc8000

webreaper said:


> Totally with you there. This thread (and the Sony WF1000X one) have demonstrated that we're probably still 2-3 years from proper wireless IEM tech. Even my friends with AirPods begrudgingly admit that they drop out occasionally. The PlusSound BT cables sounded like a good alternative, but even they have reports of dropouts and lag. The Beoplay E8s sound good, and claims that there's no video lag sound promising, but as you say, the potential for (even infrequent) dropouts, plus video lag, and so on, show we're clearly not there yet, so I'll be sticking with cables for now.



No video lag on E8


----------



## david8613

Samsung iconx 2018
pros:
Solid bluetooth connection
sweat proof
4gb on board memory
Long battery life 5 hours streaming, 7 hours using on board memory
usb c charging case which has a quick charge feature, 15mins in charging case gives you 1 full hour play time
Touch controls are awesome very functional you can do everything even control volume but has a bit of a learning curve which is not bad just practice you will get it
charging case is very small
Voice coaching is fun and works
They look very durable
Activating Google assistant works
Calls are fine
Sound is very good but I believe it could sound better, I think original iconx sound signature was a little better to me, last years was more v shaped this year its more flat with emphasis on high mids and highs

Cons:
Ai voice for headphone is too loud to me
I wish the charging case held more than one charge, for example the jam ultra case holds 10 charges not that much bigger case
The buds feel bigger than the originals but from what i understand the 2018s are supposed to be smaller, doesn't feel like it to me
no blue lights on the buds

Sony wf 1000x
Pros
Sound! They sound so very nice, clear, lots of texture, smooth, separation, good bass, no distortion
They look and and feel premium
Anc really works! 
Eq settings are cool, I wish more ear buds had this
They are smart, they know when your walking sitting on the subway and adjust anc on the fly
Cool antenna enclosure and with blue lights.
Nice charging case
App is nice
Very small and very light weight ear pieces, really comfortable
Calls are clear

Cons
Right ear side bud sound drops out when moving around especially when outside This is unacceptable!
No usb c charging
No volume controls on buds
Not sweat resistant
3 hours per charge, less if your running volume loud with all the features, should be better for a premium product. 
No on board memory

Ultimately I stayed with the Samsung's, I would have used the Sony's as back up but drop out should not happen at all. This does not happen with all true wireless, Samsung iconx, jam ultras, Apple ear buds, jabra elite, Jaybird x3 and others have solid connection with zero drop outs. The only ones i have not tried are the jay bird runs, and the b&o.


----------



## clerkpalmer

If anyone is looking you can get the e8 for 250 right now on Bloomingdale's using code private. I couldn't resist.


----------



## bedlamite

Awaiting reviews of the E8 from fellow Headfiers. I own the WH-1000XM2s and was greatly interested in picking up the WF-1000x as well, but I held off as it seems like every 3rd review mentions BT dropouts. Not going to deal with that.


----------



## david8613

I also want hear reviews of b&o e8...


----------



## clerkpalmer (Nov 17, 2017)

Has anyone used the e8 at gym? Also others are reporting the volume in the right earpiece is lower than the left. Has anyone experienced this? Just got mine today but haven't investigated. I think the sq is excellent overall and compares favorably to the Bose.  Very warm sounding.I can't believe how far sq has come on these second generation buds.


----------



## nc8000

clerkpalmer said:


> Has anyone used the e8 at gym? Also others are reporting the volume in the right earpiece is lower than the left. Has anyone experienced this? Just got mine today but haven't investigated. I think the sq is excellent overall and compares favorably to the Bose.  Very warm sounding.I can't believe how far sq has come on these second generation buds.



I never go to the gym but have used the E8 on long sweaty walks with no problem and I experience no volume difference. I do stil get the occasionel very short left unit drop out but much less frequently after the latest fw update


----------



## Iron-Buddha

My replacement E8's are still exhibiting some inconsistent behaviour, including (i) bass on left earpiece being lower than the right, and (ii) right earpiece being quieter than the left.   This is all pretty noticeable in the imaging and soundstage.  I suspect that both of these behaviors kick in when the E8 is changing bit rate or protocol.   I had the second behavior kick in when I was crouched, with the phone in my left pocket (with my whole body basically blocking the signal).  The E8's sound changed after some drop-out/break in the signal and I could not get it to switch back without disconnecting and reconnecting.

Look, I'm still really loving the E8's form factor and when they work, they sound pretty amazing for wireless IEMs.   I'm on the fence as to whether or not to try to ride this out with firmware updates.   That being said, I made the decision to ride out the speakerphone issue with the Beoplay P2 and they never released any updated firmware.  B&O's customer support doesn't really inspire confidence either.


----------



## nc8000

Iron-Buddha said:


> My replacement E8's are still exhibiting some inconsistent behaviour, including (i) bass on left earpiece being lower than the right, and (ii) right earpiece being quieter than the left.   This is all pretty noticeable in the imaging and soundstage.  I suspect that both of these behaviors kick in when the E8 is changing bit rate or protocol.   I had the second behavior kick in when I was crouched, with the phone in my left pocket (with my whole body basically blocking the signal).  The E8's sound changed after some drop-out/break in the signal and I could not get it to switch back without disconnecting and reconnecting.
> 
> Look, I'm still really loving the E8's form factor and when they work, they sound pretty amazing for wireless IEMs.   I'm on the fence as to whether or not to try to ride this out with firmware updates.   That being said, I made the decision to ride out the speakerphone issue with the Beoplay P2 and they never released any updated firmware.  B&O's customer support doesn't really inspire confidence either.



No their customer support is not very good but there has been one fw update since release and for me that clearly reduced the number of drop outs on the left unit to a level I can live with


----------



## david8613

you guys have to try the Samsung iconx 2018 and the jam ultras, zero drop outs, I used them every where. gym, downtown, in my car, mall, walmarts no drop outs at all.


----------



## clerkpalmer

Samsung is advertising 150 for black Friday for the iconx 2018.


----------



## joshnor713

Posted my impressions of the Sony WF-1000X: https://www.thesynops.com/sony-wf-1000x-true-wireless-noise-cancelling-earbuds-synopsis/

Agree with the assessments here. Fantastic sound but too many drop out on the right earpiece. It's not unusable to me; it eventually stabilizes. But like the consensus here, we're not quite there yet with true wireless earbuds. The battery life may be another deal breaker on these, not good.


----------



## MIBUK

Amazon are now selling Jabra Elite Sports for £100 discount. Countdown is 15hrs from now https://www.amazon.co.uk/Jabra-Wire...in-21&linkId=b2e31dc7c1ed05adb335471c71f55a76


----------



## david8613

these are out in the wild, anyone try them yet? anker zolo liberty...

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product-reviews/B075JBP2P7


----------



## webreaper

Ooooh, good. Been waiting for these to hit the streets with real reviews, as they sound very promising - but then so did all the others. Will await some proper reviews with baited breath....


----------



## webreaper

(although obviously, these are the Libertys - the ones you really want are the Liberty+).


----------



## david8613

I did not realize there was more than one model, what are the differences?


----------



## david8613

I found the differences, here are the specs... they look a little big in the ears from pics...

https://zoloaudio.com/pages/liberty_series#gallery


----------



## webreaper

Yep. It remains to be seen whether the BT5 makes a significant difference, or if their connectivity is good enough as it is. But the Plus model's extra charging capacity in the case is also a nice feature.


----------



## david8613

Best Buy has the Samsung iconx 2018 150.00! listen to me guys these are the best right now, no drop outs, I mean zero! 5 hours battery, 4 gb on board memory for music, water proof, swipe controls, sound good, and more comfortable for gym than apple ear buds.

https://www.bestbuy.com/site/search...rue&iht=y&usc=All+Categories&ks=960&keys=keys


----------



## david8613

did you guys see these pretty nice looking...

https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/...vanced-wireless-earphones-headphones-audio/#/


----------



## MNX1024

Getting a Pixel 2 XL now has kind of forced to into getting a pair of wireless headphones as a daily driver. I'll need some help from you guys to help me decide on what to get.

Let's begin with what I will primarily use these headphones for:

Playing music or watching video during my 1 hour commute in the NYC subway and walking through the city.
Training at the gym, which includes HIIT, power-lifting, and calisthenics. Will also be using it running outdoors. 
Essentially, I'm looking for something that is sweat/water-proof/resistant, no drop outs and skipping (at least close to none), sound good, and absolutely no audio delay when watching videos. To elaborate on the last part, I actually watch videos quite often during my commute as that's usually when I'm free to catch up on my TV series and movies.

With that said, after reading this entire thread and doing some of my own research, I came down to the following three headphones:

Jabra Elite Sport
Samsung Gear IconX 2018
Bose SoundSport Free

I'm also kind of and reluctantly considering the Jaybird Run due to their connection issues. But, all the reviews I can find of them are for their pre-production units, before the actual retail units were released. Since I'm a fan of their product because I own a pair of their X2 and loved them. Also enjoyed playing with a friend's Freedom. This caused me to hope that their retail units are not plagued with the problems that the units the reviewer has.

So, what do you guys think I should get, and why? Feel free to recommend a model that I didn't list here. Hoping to make a purchase this week due to the black Friday and cyber Monday deals.


----------



## clerkpalmer (Nov 24, 2017)

MNX1024 said:


> Getting a Pixel 2 XL now has kind of forced to into getting a pair of wireless headphones as a daily driver. I'll need some help from you guys to help me decide on what to get.
> 
> Let's begin with what I will primarily use these headphones for:
> 
> ...


I have the Jabra and the Bose but have not yet heard the 2018 iconx but I have the 2017. All are solid choices. To my ears the Bose sound better than Jabra by a lot. But the caveat is that they let sound in so that might be an issue for your commute. The Jabra isolate well and fit me very well. They don't move during workouts. Sound is worst of the bunch. My experience with the 2017 iconx was positive. Sound is just ok. Better than Jabra but not Bose. Good fit and seal. Also I haven't noticed dropouts on any of them. For your use the Samsung may be the best balance. 150 today on sale isn't bad. If sq is most important go for the Bose.


----------



## MNX1024

clerkpalmer said:


> I have the Jabra and the Bose but have not yet heard the 2018 iconx but I have the 2017. All are solid choices. To my ears the Bose sound better than Jabra by a lot. But the caveat is that they let sound in so that might be an issue for your commute. The Jabra isolate well and fit me very well. They don't move during workouts. Sound is worst of the bunch. My experience with the 2017 iconx was positive. Sound is just ok. Better than Jabra but not Bose. Good fit and seal. Also I haven't noticed dropouts on any of them. For your use the Samsung may be the best balance. 150 today on sale isn't bad. If sq is most important go for the Bose.



Yeah, a proper seal is very important for me because the trains can get very loud during my commute. Learned to not be nitpicky with the sounds for commute/training headphones over the year, actually okay with most as long as it does not sound like total garbage. Guess I can rule out the Bose since I was initially reluctant to get them due to the price. The Jabra actually cost the same as the new IconX due to Black Friday. What do you think I should get, since there's no price difference now? For watching videos, dis you notice any audio delay/lagg? That would be a bummer of there is, as mentioned above, I watch a lot videos too.


----------



## clerkpalmer

MNX1024 said:


> Yeah, a proper seal is very important for me because the trains can get very loud during my commute. Learned to not be nitpicky with the sounds for commute/training headphones over the year, actually okay with most as long as it does not sound like total garbage. Guess I can rule out the Bose since I was initially reluctant to get them due to the price. The Jabra actually cost the same as the new IconX due to Black Friday. What do you think I should get, since there's no price difference now? For watching videos, dis you notice any audio delay/lagg? That would be a bummer of there is, as mentioned above, I watch a lot videos too.


But them both and return the ones you like the least. You mentioned jaybird run too. Reviews suggest they have fixed their connectivity issues. Might be worth a shot.  I like jaybird and their sq may be better than Samsung and Jabra.


----------



## MNX1024 (Nov 24, 2017)

clerkpalmer said:


> But them both and return the ones you like the least. You mentioned jaybird run too. Reviews suggest they have fixed their connectivity issues. Might be worth a shot.  I like jaybird and their sq may be better than Samsung and Jabra.



I'll do just that, since I'm going to be heading into Best Buy later today.

You are right about the Jaybird. After a quick Google search they did update the firmware, and reviews on that started to pop up the last few days. I'll have to consider hard on the Jaybird. Sadly, there's no promotion going on for them, and you can only use the right ear for single pod usage. Probably wait for them to go on sale if I don't like both the IconX and Jabra's.


----------



## clerkpalmer

If anyone is looking for some e8s I'm selling mine. I absolutely love the sq but for some reason they don't fit me properly. Pm me if interested.


----------



## clerkpalmer

MNX1024 said:


> I'll do just that, since I'm going to be heading into Best Buy later today.
> 
> You are right about the Jaybird. After a quick Google search they did update the firmware, and reviews on that started to pop up the last few days. I'll have to consider hard on the Jaybird. Sadly, there's no promotion going on for them, and you can only use the right ear for single pod usage. Probably wait for them to go on sale if I don't like both the IconX and Jabra's.


So how'd it go?


----------



## MNX1024

clerkpalmer said:


> So how'd it go?



Bestbuy was sold out on both, ended up ordering them on Amazon. Luckily I have prime, so, it's arriving tomorrow.


----------



## clerkpalmer

MNX1024 said:


> Bestbuy was sold out on both, ended up ordering them on Amazon. Luckily I have prime, so, it's arriving tomorrow.


Keep us posted interested in your impressions.


----------



## MNX1024

Got both my Jabra Elite Sport and Samsung Gear IconX 2018. Only briefly tested then out to make sure they work, nothing in detail from me yet.

Right out of the box, the Gear IconX was just much more comfortable and straight forward to insert into my ears. The Elite Sport require one to insert the earphone at an angle, then twist it to lock it in place. It wasn't that comfortable for me during the 10-15 minutes that I was playing around with it. I can see how the Jabra might be more secure than the Samsung due to it's shape and retention system. 

In terms of sound quality, the Gear IconX does sound better, but nothing definitive yet because I haven't really listen to much music, watch enough videos, and burn them in. Though, the Bass is definitely stronger and treble has more detail. Sound stage is wider too.

Only used the IconX for voice call so far. The other party said that it's very clear. Background noise was also picked up. 

That's about it from me for now.


----------



## alchemical

Can any Jaybird Run owners attest to the recent firmware update ironing out the majority of connection issues?


----------



## david8613

I have to agree, the jabra didn't fit me either, and I also agree about the iconx 2018 sound quality and phone call quality, its really good. I really believe these are the best on the market now.


----------



## Tertulian

Good afternoon everyone - I'm really glad I found this place and this thread as these are the exact same questions I've been wrestling with!  I, too, am in the market for a BT IEM.  The primary purpose would be for commuting, running outside, and work-out at the gym. After much research I've narrowed it down to a 5 options, but they all have their downsides;

1. Jabra Elite Sport: mediocre SQ, big in the ear and can get uncomfortable
2. Jaybird Run: possible connectivity issues (not sure if this has been totally rectified)
3. Bose Soundsport Free: Big (like really big), and no noise isolation, meaning gym or commuting could be a hassle
4. B&O Beoplay E8: Possibly not sweat resistant, debatable SQ?
5. Bragi The Dash Pro: Expensive...apparently the SQ can be anything from 'the best' to 'the worst' depending on who you ask.  I find this one the hardest to find out anything about...does anyone have any insight into the 'Dash Pro' iteration?

I can't say that I'm a 'learned' audiophile, but I do have a keen ear and love my music (mostly rock and classical) and find that poor speakers/headphones/ear buds can totally ruin my listening experience.  Maybe I'm just picky.

Cheers and thanks from the frozen North!


----------



## nc8000

Tertulian said:


> Good afternoon everyone - I'm really glad I found this place and this thread as these are the exact same questions I've been wrestling with!  I, too, am in the market for a BT IEM.  The primary purpose would be for commuting, running outside, and work-out at the gym. After much research I've narrowed it down to a 5 options, but they all have their downsides;
> 
> 1. Jabra Elite Sport: mediocre SQ, big in the ear and can get uncomfortable
> 2. Jaybird Run: possible connectivity issues (not sure if this has been totally rectified)
> ...



The E8 should be sweat and splash resistent but not water proof. SQ to me is perfectly acceptable for the use and environment I’m uding it in but (apart from different sound sig) not at the level of my wired Jays qJay V2. Since doing the fw upgrade a couple of weeks ago I’ve had virtually no left channel drop outs. I love the gesture interface rather than tiny fiddely buttond


----------



## alchemical (Nov 29, 2017)

Well, took a leap of faith on some Jaybird Runs, updated the firmware immediately, and so far really impressed. Very comfortable, secure, and most importantly not a single drop out on the commute today, even in areas that usually trouble my dependable Bluetooth sets. That was walking though - true test will be during a long run later, will report back with how they fare.

UPDATE #1: Just got back from a run through the woods near home, and not a single drop out from start to finish.

Will see if they cope as well during a city run tomorrow. If they do I'm going to be absolutely delighted with these.


----------



## webreaper

Well, so my conclusion to this thread as the OP is that it is too early, and no we aren't there yet. Reading reviews of the Zolo Libertys, people are already reporting consistent connectivity issues with the left bud, so unless the Liberty+'s BT5 upgrade significantly improves that, it looks like they're not going to perform consistently well. The best hope seems to be the BeoPlay E8s, but frankly the price is too rich for me and reports of dropouts still make me uncomfortable. 

So today I've decided to give up on BT wire-free IEMs for at least another year or two, and have instead taken the plunge on a PlusSound BT cable, taking advantage of the last day of their Black Friday sale. This means that I can keep my Senn IE80s (which I love) and their custom sleeves (which I also love) and have comfort, excellent SQ and isolation, but hopefully with the convenience of BlueTooth. Just have to wait a few weeks for them to arrive, but once they get here I'll write up my thoughts on their performance etc.


----------



## MIBUK

Thanks for your feedback on the Jaybirds. I was initially excited about these when they were first talked about and then the Disappointment regarding the dropouts. However, it seems that the new firmware has fixed it. I have two requests. Can you upload a photo of your ear with a Jaybird or a link to a Picture? Also, have you tested with watching youtube or other videos to see if there's a delay?

Thanks!


----------



## alchemical

The same - I was so disappointed to see all the initial reviews, but so far whatever the firmware update did it really seems to have done the trick as far as music goes. I briefly had the Beo E8s and found them ususable for running with left bud drop outs. Not the case here so far whatsoever. 

That said - videos still suffer noticeable lag. That doesn't bother me as I use these purely for music and running, but if that's a big use case for you then it's a deal breaker until a further update hopefully addresses the problem. Which given I didn't think a firmware update could so radically fix Bluetooth connection issues, that it was hardware related, a future fix doesn't seem so unlikely now.

I can take some pics tomorrow if you like. If you Google image search them though there's a fair amount of in-use photos, which are pretty accurate. I will say they're pretty discreet, and very comfortable, causing none of the fatigue I suffered from the bigger Jabra Elite.


----------



## webreaper

Plenty of shots of what the Jaybirds look like in this CNet video: https://www.cnet.com/products/jaybird-run/review/


----------



## TooFrank

I know that they are not truly wireless, but I am really enjoying my Jaybird Freedoms. They are indeed very tiny and fits very well in my ears. For running they are almost perfect. Only issue is the battery package, which may get you a little sore after some time. I have recently bought the E8 and while I do love them (very few drop outs), I would not use them for running - slightly too bulky compared with the fredoms.


----------



## fearlessleader

I've searched and searched for a thread about the Zolo Liberty+
Not finding one, I've started one:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/zolo-liberty-totally-wireless-earphones-kickstarter.866587/


----------



## grahamtaustin

using the headphones with an iPhone 8 supporting bluetooth 5, using the Plex app to download FLAC files direct to phone and using the phones with Comply tips.  Sounds great!


----------



## jessnie

grahamtaustin said:


> using the headphones with an iPhone 8 supporting bluetooth 5, using the Plex app to download FLAC files direct to phone and using the phones with Comply tips.  Sounds great!


haha


----------



## webreaper

Another interesting kick-starter option: 
https://www.kickstarter.com/project...ess-smart-earbuds-for-music-activ/description


----------



## MIBUK

Thanks @alchemical! I'm still on the fence. Unfortunately, my Jaybirds Blubirds X have just stopped working after 5 years! I'm looking for a combo sports/casual use version. The Jaybirds Run do look tempting. I like that they have an app to tune it to our preferences, but CES is just around the corner and manufacturers are now jumping on the bandwagon. The lag with video is a bit annoying, especially when I have a £40 pair of Chineses true wireless that work perfectly well when watching video.

For those looking at KS or Indiegogo true wireless, I personally would avoid them. They are Always late with delivery and as we've seen for even the bigger and more established manufacturers, dropouts can still be an issue and startups will find it even harder.And on crowdfunding sites, you have less protection and rarley any possibiliity to return. By the time they do arrive your door, more and better true wireless will be on the market.

So I have 3 options, jump in, hold out or buy a JayBird X3 or Freedoms as a fill in. Decisions, decisions.


----------



## david8613

Try the Samsung iconx 2018, really nice features, great sound, long battery, good fit and no annoying drop outs. I love mine, no problems...


----------



## MIBUK

david8613 said:


> Try the Samsung iconx 2018, really nice features, great sound, long battery, good fit and no annoying drop outs. I love mine, no problems...



You must have read my mind. Just been reading up on the 2018 version and there are very few negative comments. Mainly positive just like yours. Typical that I only really noticed them after Black Friday and Cyber Monday. So, will keep an eye on the price and if nothing else comes up, then I'll jump in. My Chinese wireless can keep me going for a few weeks more, especially now that I've got comply tips on them.


----------



## alchemical

MIBUK said:


> Thanks @alchemical! I'm still on the fence. Unfortunately, my Jaybirds Blubirds X have just stopped working after 5 years! I'm looking for a combo sports/casual use version. The Jaybirds Run do look tempting. I like that they have an app to tune it to our preferences, but CES is just around the corner and manufacturers are now jumping on the bandwagon. The lag with video is a bit annoying, especially when I have a £40 pair of Chineses true wireless that work perfectly well when watching video.
> 
> For those looking at KS or Indiegogo true wireless, I personally would avoid them. They are Always late with delivery and as we've seen for even the bigger and more established manufacturers, dropouts can still be an issue and startups will find it even harder.And on crowdfunding sites, you have less protection and rarley any possibiliity to return. By the time they do arrive your door, more and better true wireless will be on the market.
> 
> So I have 3 options, jump in, hold out or buy a JayBird X3 or Freedoms as a fill in. Decisions, decisions.


Well after a week using the Jaybird Runs I can definitely say I’ve found the running headphones I’m after. The video


MIBUK said:


> Thanks @alchemical! I'm still on the fence. Unfortunately, my Jaybirds Blubirds X have just stopped working after 5 years! I'm looking for a combo sports/casual use version. The Jaybirds Run do look tempting. I like that they have an app to tune it to our preferences, but CES is just around the corner and manufacturers are now jumping on the bandwagon. The lag with video is a bit annoying, especially when I have a £40 pair of Chineses true wireless that work perfectly well when watching video.
> 
> For those looking at KS or Indiegogo true wireless, I personally would avoid them. They are Always late with delivery and as we've seen for even the bigger and more established manufacturers, dropouts can still be an issue and startups will find it even harder.And on crowdfunding sites, you have less protection and rarley any possibiliity to return. By the time they do arrive your door, more and better true wireless will be on the market.
> 
> So I have 3 options, jump in, hold out or buy a JayBird X3 or Freedoms as a fill in. Decisions, decisions.



Well after a week using the Jaybird Runs I haven't had so much as a stutter in connection, or a single left bud dropout. For running they're perfect for me. Personally, I'd steer clear of the X3s. I owned them and if worn in the sport fit (over ear) configuration, the bluetooth connection is absolutely awful. I've had none of the same issues with the Run, even around congested city areas. Obviously the lag with videos isn't great - my testing was just on YouTube though, I've read comments saying it's better on apps like Netflix. Must give that a test.


----------



## david8613

I use x3s as backup to my iconx 2018, no problems with them either.


----------



## alchemical

I'm sure mileage does vary. I do know and there are plenty more people in the Jaybird forums though who've had the same issue with the sport fit on the X3s, running with them over ear and the remote sitting flush against the head using the cable management clips. Something to keep in mind at any rate.


----------



## clerkpalmer (Dec 9, 2017)

I purchased the Jaybird Runs yesterday because I have a headphone sickness and despite being very happy with the Bose.  My impression is good and bad.  On the good side, I like the fit and form factor far more than the Bose.  They are light and slim and stay put in my ears. I didn't have any connection issues either but use was in my basement on a treadmill.  On the negative, the sound quality is wretched.  I have had X3s and they are quite good.  These headphones have a terrible sibliance/distortion on all high end.  Basically, it sounds like distortion for all highs.  Has anyone else noticed this? Wondering if I got a bad set?

Edit: tried these again today. Sq is so bad it’s embarrassing. Nothing but pure distortion on any high note. If mine aren’t defective and these are how they were intended, Jaybird really misfired. They are going back.


----------



## MNX1024

Looks like there's some good news for those who plan on getting a new flagship phone next year with the newly announced Qualcomm S845 SoC. They're able to make use of BT 5.0 to send audio signal to two devices simultaneously. Meaning, unlike how true wireless work, where signal is only send to one earbud, then that earbud sends it to the next. This'll increase battery performance by up to 50%.

https://www.qualcomm.com/news/relea...845-mobile-platform-introduces-new-innovative


----------



## sibobob

clerkpalmer said:


> I purchased the Jaybird Runs yesterday because I have a headphone sickness and despite being very happy with the Bose.  My impression is good and bad.  On the good side, I like the fit and form factor far more than the Bose.  They are light and slim and stay put in my ears. I didn't have any connection issues either but use was in my basement on a treadmill.  On the negative, the sound quality is wretched.  I have had X3s and they are quite good.  These headphones have a terrible sibliance/distortion on all high end.  Basically, it sounds like distortion for all highs.  Has anyone else noticed this? Wondering if I got a bad set?



I've been reading this thread for a while, it's been a really helpful discussion so I joined up to add my thoughts... I couldn't agree more with the Jaybird runs. Awful highs! An irritating crispiness, hard to tell if it's compression or distortion, but there's no way to EQ it out. I don't know why there's a consensus that these sound amazing, unless perhaps they did prior to a recent firmware update. Connection was 100% reliable but they had to go back, couldn't put up with that.

I bought the Jaybirds, Jabra Elites and Airpods to compare. There's no doubt which has the best sound quality - it's the Airpods, by a mile. I expected to hate these, but of the three, they're the best in every respect. They're more open-sounding, better separation, sound less compressed (as if they're streaming a higher bitrate), bass is great when fitted right. They stayed in fine on an 8km run. Only problem is I feel like an idiot wearing them! Can't get over that design, so I'm sticking with the Jabra elites until Apple release black ones. The Jabras have much smoother, albeit less pronounced highs than the Jaybird Runs, overall a rounded, warm sound, no connection issues, all controls are on the buds which is great for running. Certainly nothing mediocre about their sound, next to the fingernails-on-a-chalkboard highs of the Jaybirds!  But they do plug up your whole ear, it's hard to forget you're wearing them which will annoy some. That's my two cents on three fully wireless models.


----------



## Peddler

I have to agree about the Airpods - I've a number of bluetooth headphones and I think the Airpods definitely come out on top when it comes to sound quality and connection (no dropouts). I'm using them with my LG V20. The only real issue I have with them is the lack of remote controls - although this really isn't a problem when I'm wearing my smartwatch as I have full control from there.


----------



## MIBUK

sibobob said:


> I've been reading this thread for a while, it's been a really helpful discussion so I joined up to add my thoughts... I couldn't agree more with the Jaybird runs. Awful highs! An irritating crispiness, hard to tell if it's compression or distortion, but there's no way to EQ it out. I don't know why there's a consensus that these sound amazing, unless perhaps they did prior to a recent firmware update. Connection was 100% reliable but they had to go back, couldn't put up with that.
> 
> I bought the Jaybirds, Jabra Elites and Airpods to compare. There's no doubt which has the best sound quality - it's the Airpods, by a mile. I expected to hate these, but of the three, they're the best in every respect. They're more open-sounding, better separation, sound less compressed (as if they're streaming a higher bitrate), bass is great when fitted right. They stayed in fine on an 8km run. Only problem is I feel like an idiot wearing them! Can't get over that design, so I'm sticking with the Jabra elites until Apple release black ones. The Jabras have much smoother, albeit less pronounced highs than the Jaybird Runs, overall a rounded, warm sound, no connection issues, all controls are on the buds which is great for running. Certainly nothing mediocre about their sound, next to the fingernails-on-a-chalkboard highs of the Jaybirds!  But they do plug up your whole ear, it's hard to forget you're wearing them which will annoy some. That's my two cents on three fully wireless models.



Thanks for your overview. It’s really helps. To be honest, I’m surprised that you say the AirPods have the best sound, considering the reviews that have been posted on them. Or maybe the others just aren’t very good.


----------



## clerkpalmer

Bose and Beoplay E8 blow airpods away on sq.


----------



## sibobob

MIBUK said:


> Thanks for your overview. It’s really helps. To be honest, I’m surprised that you say the AirPods have the best sound, considering the reviews that have been posted on them. Or maybe the others just aren’t very good.



I'm not saying Airpods are amazing-sounding by any stretch, but of those three I tried, they absolutely sound the best. I was surprised too, best of a decidedly-average bunch! 

I'm sure the Beoplay E8 do blow them all out of the water! I was just buying and testing 3 pairs all around $150 on Black Friday, the E8s were twice the price. The Bose Soundsport stick out too much for me, as did the Sonys, just personal preference.


----------



## Peddler

Ha ING recently purchased the Sennheiser HD598 I'm surprised at the similarities in the sound character between them and the Airpods. One thing I would definitely recommend to anyone who has Airpods us to try out a set of foamies on them. It improves the bass, and the reduces some of their 'brightness' and allows for a much better fit. 

I must admit I was really quite doubtful about the Airpods but I'm really impressed with them overall.


----------



## sgtbilko

Just got a pair of the Zolo Liberty's.

Pretty impressed. Got them on Amazon for under £60 - a serious bargain at that price.

Mini summary can be found here:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/zol...s-earphones-kickstarter.866587/#post-13899702


----------



## Sound Eq

i got the samsung gear iconx 2018 and they sound really great, i wonder if this is the best wireless iem out there without wires as the iconx 2018 really made curious if there are better sounding ones, so far i am really impressed


----------



## Tommy C

Came across these and planning to give them a try. 
I like the PSB sound and the company has awesome high end stuff. 
http://www.psbspeakers.com/content/171204081552-PSB_TW1-DataSheet.pdf

Still hoping someone can share an impression.


----------



## clerkpalmer

The psb look awesome. Would love a review


----------



## Sound Eq

i can vouch for samsung gear iconx 2018 that its amazing, but its my first wireless iem so I am now really curious which is the best of them all


----------



## david8613

Guys trust and believe the Samsung iconx 2018 is the best all around, I have tried many truewireless and I am happy with these. I don't even use my Jay bird x3 anymore I just keep them as back up. 

Good sound
Good battery life
Great fit
Great touch controls
Fantastic BT connection
I only wish the charging case would charge more times, but its ok anyway. 
I wish they had an eq in the app. Hopefully they can add one in the future, Samsung is good for keeping apps and firmware up to date with new features.


----------



## MIBUK

The only negatives I’ve heard so far is the sound doesn’t sync with YouTube videos and the cost is too high. £200+ in UK. When you talk about sound, how do they compare to the truly wireless from Sony & Bose?


----------



## clerkpalmer

Agreed. Would really like a direct compare on sq to the bose because the bose sq is superb. Gear iconx 2017 did not sound great so maybe they improved the 2018?


----------



## Sound Eq (Dec 31, 2017)

i have and had many totl iems, man this iconx 2018 is simply amazing, i really am now a believer in wireless iems, and I use them more than my other iems now. this speaks volumes

i really wonder if all other brands are as good or better than iconx 2018, as this wireless iem stuff is getting really interesting and worth investing in, as this is a hassle free iem and finally getting rid of cables and daps

I really hope big names like 64audio, Noble, empire ears will look into this wireless iem tech

I am sure iems with cables soon will become history

i am using my iconx with samsung s8 plus and no eq what so ever as the sound signature is amazing, all i used is sound alive to make an imprint of my hearing which is a really amazing tech especially with iems as getting the correct sound print to suit your ears in my opinion should be available in every source whether a dap or a phone

i love the sound stage and instrument separation and coherency of bass, mids and treble in icon x


----------



## Ynot1

Bluetooth 5 suppose to make bluetooth range longer or faster bit rate. I'm not sure if they have bluetooth network feature where the while family can bluetooth on netflix for instance.


----------



## murph65

I have an interesting story to share for those of you who experience the audio dropouts when using bluetooth earphones. Shall we begin.........

     On Christmas day, i received the Sol Republic Amps Air (on sale for $75 CA) and let me tell you, these things are AMAZING!. However, just using them around the house, i was experiencing the dropouts. Not a ton but enough to cause me to go online and check into it. And man, did it appear to be a common issue. Especially for Android users and specifically for Samsung Smartphone users (I have a Galaxy Note 3).

     Three days after Christmas, i decided to spend the day shopping for deals as i prefer to avoid the Boxing Day Madness and this was to be the first big test (open air environment, much more interference) for my Amps. And man, what a disappointment. They were used for the next 3 hours until a recharge was needed, on public transit (buses, subway) and walking to/from and through a large Mall. "Constant Dropouts" were happening (right bud, both buds) and when i entered the Food Court to have lunch, they became almost "Unusable"!.

    I had already tried 2 fixes that supposedly helped the odd user (cleared cache in anything bluetooth related in the phone apps section) and (rebooted into recovery and wiped the cache partition). Neither of these helped my situation.

    While back on the bus travelling to another Mall, and my Amps still charging, i remembered a third fix that i hadn't tried yet. Needed "Root" (already had it!). Installed the "No-frills CPU Control" App from the Play Store and increased the minimum clock frequency to 883 MHz (a poster tested moving one step up at a time from 300MHz and no difference was seen until  883MHz was reached) . Now just had to wait for the Amps to finish charging. And Boy, was it ever worth the wait!

     Inserted my Amps, connected to my phone and began listening to Spotify. Stepped off the bus and walked into a Staples store for 5 minutes. Left and walked over and into another large mall and i was just amazed. Not a single dropout yet. But here came the "Big Test" : 20 minutes spent inside a huge Best Buy store (major interference in here) and "Not A Single Dropout"! Nadda! I was impressed to say the least. By the time i got home, the Amps needed recharging again which meant i just went 3 hours without a dropout. 

    Yesterday, i used the Amps another 4 hours (public transit commute, walking around the busy downtown of a large city) and again, No Dropouts. Just so happy now with the Truly Wireless Experience!!!

    Hope this helps.......


----------



## david8613

To me the Sony sounded better than the Samsung. The Sony had more detail, and separation in the sound, they were very nice, but I stuck with Samsung because of better battery life, nice touch controls, sweat proof and no drop outs. I noticed in the latest firmware update for the Iconx 2018 my sound quality changed, it is better even though they do not mention anything about sound quality changes in the firmware. I never tried the Bose, too big and I like my ear buds with a full seal for better sound so I didn't even bother with them.


----------



## BigAund

I bought some Zolo Liberty from Amazon recently for £50 - I'm pleasantly surprised by them. So far no real issues with connectivity to my Pioneer 30R, Sound is acceptable for commuting. I had some cheapo chinese ones in the past that were pretty rubbish, also had the Trinity Air from Kickstarter which were unusable. For something as cheap (in this game at any rate) as these, I'm happily impressed.


----------



## Tommy C

BigAund said:


> I bought some Zolo Liberty from Amazon recently for £50 - I'm pleasantly surprised by them. So far no real issues with connectivity to my Pioneer 30R, Sound is acceptable for commuting. I had some cheapo chinese ones in the past that were pretty rubbish, also had the Trinity Air from Kickstarter which were unusable. For something as cheap (in this game at any rate) as these, I'm happily impressed.



Did you send the Air back to Trinity?
A close friend received 2 pairs and they are both garbage.


----------



## BigAund

Tommy C said:


> Did you send the Air back to Trinity?
> A close friend received 2 pairs and they are both garbage.



Didn't bother sending them back - I emailed back and forth a few times when it looked like they were going to rectify the issues but it never happened, I think I ended up throwing them in the bin. I ended up calling it a day with Trinity after that. As you said, Air was just garbage and unfit to be sold - I didn't like the excuses that came from Trinity once they did eventually get sent out either (some nonsense about water content in people's bodies). I realise BT earphones have shortcomings, but the Air was a waste of money and complete cr@p.


----------



## sgtbilko

I had the exact same issue. 3 months of back and forth. 

I even sent them my unit, which they then sent back several weeks later with no fix. Go figure! Though they said it had been

Never again with those crooks


----------



## clerkpalmer

Took the plunge on the PSBs.  Will report back.  Hoping for excellent SQ.


----------



## Tommy C

clerkpalmer said:


> Took the plunge on the PSBs.  Will report back.  Hoping for excellent SQ.



Planning to do the same myself. If they are anything close to the PSB M4U4 it will be a winner.


----------



## raptor18

Gents

Are there wireless headphones which are "always on" and ready to be connected. When i'm in the office and close to the headphones, i want them to connect automatically to my phone and when i leave and come back, they should reconnect automatically.
I guess this is science fiction as it would require some massive battery


----------



## clerkpalmer

Well, this isn't going well with the PSB.  I can't get them both to play together.  Apparently, zero customer support as well.  They are supposed to connect to one another automatically but I can't seem to make it happen.  They will each pair with the phone separately but they won't pair with each other.  Quick start manual offers virtually no help.  Just wasted an hour of my life trying to get these to work.


----------



## Tommy C

clerkpalmer said:


> Well, this isn't going well with the PSB.  I can't get them both to play together.  Apparently, zero customer support as well.  They are supposed to connect to one another automatically but I can't seem to make it happen.  They will each pair with the phone separately but they won't pair with each other.  Quick start manual offers virtually no help.  Just wasted an hour of my life trying to get these to work.



Oh, sorry to hear that. 
In order you get support you will need to log in to their website and create a ticket online.  
That was my experience with them and they were quick to reply.


----------



## clerkpalmer

Thanks.  Really frustrated.  The "Quick Start" guide is garbage.  There is no explanation as to how to reset them.  Both are trying to connect to the phone and they both do connect but only 1 plays music at a time.  Also, there is no charging case, just a USB with a Y selector.  Expected more for $149.  I have tried calling and leaving messages but no call back yet.  I attempted to start a ticket and got a "experiencing a high amount of delays" message.  Not acceptable.


----------



## clerkpalmer

Well, this isn't going well with the PSB.  I can't get them both to play together.  Apparently, zero customer support as well.  They are supposed to connect to one another directly but I can't seem to make it happen.  Will report back


----------



## clerkpalmer

Quick update:  finally got a person at PSB to call me back.  The headphones had to be reset to get them to pair which of course makes perfect sense but wasn't mentioned anywhere in the manual.  So their customer support was great.  Called me back twice.  Had to check with the actual designer on how they work (manual is still "in development").  First impressions are very solid.  Sound is sweet.  Nice and clear and punchy with some bass boost.  I'd call it a very fun sound signature with plenty of volume.  Similar to the Bose.  Light years ahead of the Jaybird Run which I sold on ebay today.  Fit seems stable and secure but I haven't tried exercising yet.  I'd put the SQ up there with Bose and the Beoplay.  Very impressed and these isolate fully so they will have different usages than the Bose.  Will report back as I use them to run and to see if there are any cutouts.  I still think the lack of a charging module sucks a bit but maybe that's the tradeoff to keep the cost down.  And the pairing process is very finicky.


----------



## Tommy C

clerkpalmer said:


> Quick update:  finally got a person at PSB to call me back.  The headphones had to be reset to get them to pair which of course makes perfect sense but wasn't mentioned anywhere in the manual.  So their customer support was great.  Called me back twice.  Had to check with the actual designer on how they work (manual is still "in development").  First impressions are very solid.  Sound is sweet.  Nice and clear and punchy with some bass boost.  I'd call it a very fun sound signature with plenty of volume.  Similar to the Bose.  Light years ahead of the Jaybird Run which I sold on ebay today.  Fit seems stable and secure but I haven't tried exercising yet.  I'd put the SQ up there with Bose and the Beoplay.  Very impressed and these isolate fully so they will have different usages than the Bose.  Will report back as I use them to run and to see if there are any cutouts.  I still think the lack of a charging module sucks a bit but maybe that's the tradeoff to keep the cost down.  And the pairing process is very finicky.



That’s awesome.  PSB sound signature is mostly natural, musical and boosted bass. Usually they try to mimic a loud speaker type of sound.  These guys know what they are doing, it’s too bad you had to go through the frustration of the initial setup. 
I’m planning to place an order as well and pick mine up on Saturday or Sunday. 
Just a thought, can you get a small power bank for on the go charging? If it’s possible it might be the cheapest and easiest way as a workaround. 
The rep at Best Buy told me that they don’t have a charging module because the battery it much better than Sony or Bose.


----------



## clerkpalmer

Tommy C said:


> That’s awesome.  PSB sound signature is mostly natural, musical and boosted bass. Usually they try to mimic a loud speaker type of sound.  These guys know what they are doing, it’s too bad you had to go through the frustration of the initial setup.
> I’m planning to place an order as well and pick mine up on Saturday or Sunday.
> Just a thought, can you get a small power bank for on the go charging? If it’s possible it might be the cheapest and easiest way as a workaround.
> The rep at Best Buy told me that they don’t have a charging module because the battery it much better than Sony or Bose.



Really enjoying the sound signature on these.  They are definitely a gym focused set of earphones which was clearly their intended purpose.  Ample bass and volume but they still seem crisp up high.  Not muddy at all.  Probably more well rounded than the bose due to the seal and isolation - these would definitely work as daily drivers.  Sound is more natural and less processed - not necessarily good or bad - just different.


----------



## Jajo

I really want to give the PSB’s a try.  I finally gave in and bought AirPods tonight.  The sound is decent (my daily’s are JH16, but my new Apple Watch had me interested in going wireless).  The only problem is that the fit isn’t super (I’m coming from customs after all).  I actually have the AirPods flipped (left is in right ear, right is on left ear) and the fit is more secure and sound is much better for me.  

But still, I think I will order the PSB to compare.  I just can’t see the AirPods staying in place on a run or a gym session.


----------



## Tommy C

I don’t think there’s is a perfect set of totally wireless earphones yet but based on what I read I think the PSB has the most secure fit and natural and organic  sound.  Personally I really like their products and the sound signature they are tuned to have. 
It sure could have been nice to have an on-the-go charger but I can live with that since I always carry a backpack and can just throw a power bank in. 
I like the fact they are closed unlike Bose yet not congested or muffled. Some people say the Bose is almost useless in loud places, which is pretty much where I need them the most. 
I am all for secure fit and quality sound and for the price I think the PSB are great bang for the buck.


----------



## clerkpalmer

Bose are absolutely useless in a loud environment. You have to turn the volume up to high levels to compensate. The sq on the psb blows away the airpods.  Not on the same level and I think the airpods are pretty good.


----------



## Sound Eq

which psb model are u referring to, is it m4u 4 or tw1, as the m4u 4 is not truly wirless


----------



## Tommy C

Sound Eq said:


> which psb model are u referring to, is it m4u 4 or tw1, as the m4u 4 is not truly wirless



PSB TW1.


----------



## Sound Eq

Tommy C said:


> PSB TW1.


 i am surprised its advanced A2DP and not aptx


----------



## clerkpalmer

Sound Eq said:


> i am surprised its advanced A2DP and not aptx


Interesting. I think you would be pleased with the sq howvever.


----------



## clerkpalmer

I've had a few more sessions with the PSBs so I thought I would post some additional impressions.  First and foremost, sound quality is very very good for a true wireless product.  I have noticed that the bass even on a flat setting can be a bit over the top and perhaps "loose" but it does not come across as muddy or detrimental to the experience.  These are definitely tuned as gym headphones so you should expect some boosted lows.  I still find them to sound very natural and musical.  The lack of APTX or AAC is a bit of a bummer and may be contributing to the "loose" sound I described.  Fit is very nice. I'm not a huge fan of this style of workout headphone but they get a great seal and stay put.  I have not run in the yet so I can't comment on that.  Build quality is decent.  They don't feel as nicely built as the Bose or the E8s but they also cost a lot less.  Touch controls work as advertised but there is no volume control by touch that I am aware of.  Also, there are no frills headphones.  No audio pass through, HRM or other add ins.  Just good fitting good sounding buds.

Overall, I really like these.  I have tried Bose, Air Pods, Jabra, Jaybird, Beoplay, Bragi, Earin and Samsung variants of true wireless and these are my second favorite behind the Bose.  I prioritize SQ and fit first and foremost so others may have different wants/priorities.  I plan to use these in louder environments where the Bose turn into tin cans.


----------



## Sound Eq

anyone heard this 

https://shop.nuheara.com/products/iqbuds

also wonder how the new sony wireless iems that got mentioned on ces will sound like


----------



## 329161

By their very nature, are fully wireless iems bi-amped?


----------



## MementoMori99

I would be very interested in any listening impressions of the RBH H2.

https://rbhsound.com/h2.php


----------



## clerkpalmer

The first rbh wireless were amazing. These look better but I wonder if these are good for iPhone or android using aptx only.


----------



## gorman

clerkpalmer said:


> The first rbh wireless were amazing. These look better but I wonder if these are good for iPhone or android using aptx only.


I think they'll support SBC and AAC too. I'd be really surprised if they don't. SBC is mandatory, as far as I know.

But they're not fully wireless.


----------



## clerkpalmer

Agreed. Off topic for sure but RBH makes compelling stuff.


----------



## webreaper

Not really off-topic. Anything relevant is interesting. As the OP, I've long given up on the idea of completely wire-free IEMs for at least another 12 months - all of the models out there are compromised so far, and have potentially dodgy connections, lag, etc. I'm keeping my Seenheisers and trying a PlusSound BT cable (which I hope will arrive soon!).


----------



## Jajo (Jan 14, 2018)

I bought the AirPods which I really like, but decided to also try out the Bose SoundSport Free because their form factor intrigued me. The sound is definitely better than the AirPods, but they are lacking in isolation (but better than AirPods) and volume.  There just isn’t enough volume, and I am not the type to blast volume through my IEMs.

 Pairing them between different devices (iPhone to Watch then back) is a huge pain in the butt.  I currently cannot pair them back up to the iPhone.  Also I hate that phone calls come into the right earphone instead of both.  I always use my left to make phone calls.

At this point, I don’t think there is anything that is really good.  I’m thinking of giving the B&O’s a try, but I have read they are neutral, whereas I like a warm sound.  Also will give PSB a try.  It might be all for naught at this point though.

A side note, I lost one AirPod while on a run in the snow.  I had to buy one replacement at $70.


----------



## Sound Eq

Jajo said:


> I bought the AirPods which I really like, but decided to also try out the Bose SoundSport Free because their form factor intrigued me. The sound is definitely better than the AirPods, but they are lacking in isolation (but better than AirPods) and volume.  There just isn’t enough volume, and I am not the type to blast volume through my IEMs.
> 
> Pairing them between different devices (iPhone to Watch then back) is a huge pain in the butt.  I currently cannot pair them back up to the iPhone.  Also I hate that phone calls come into the right earphone instead of both.  I always use my left to make phone calls.
> 
> At this point, I don’t think there is anything that is really good.  I’m thinking of giving the B&O’s a try, but I have read they are neutral, whereas I like a warm sound.  Also will give PSB a try.  It might be all for naught at this point though.



just get the gear icon x 2018


----------



## Tommy C (Feb 4, 2018)

Jajo said:


> I bought the AirPods which I really like, but decided to also try out the Bose SoundSport Free because their form factor intrigued me. The sound is definitely better than the AirPods, but they are lacking in isolation (but better than AirPods) and volume.  There just isn’t enough volume, and I am not the type to blast volume through my IEMs.
> 
> Pairing them between different devices (iPhone to Watch then back) is a huge pain in the butt.  I currently cannot pair them back up to the iPhone.  Also I hate that phone calls come into the right earphone instead of both.  I always use my left to make phone calls.
> 
> ...



The B&O are not issue-free true wireless  despite having a premium price tag.
I haven’t received the PSB yet but I would think carefully before spending the money on B&O.


----------



## n1ckyb

clerkpalmer said:


> Quick update:  finally got a person at PSB to call me back.  The headphones had to be reset to get them to pair which of course makes perfect sense but wasn't mentioned anywhere in the manual.  So their customer support was great.  Called me back twice.  Had to check with the actual designer on how they work (manual is still "in development").  First impressions are very solid.  Sound is sweet.  Nice and clear and punchy with some bass boost.  I'd call it a very fun sound signature with plenty of volume.  Similar to the Bose.  Light years ahead of the Jaybird Run which I sold on ebay today.  Fit seems stable and secure but I haven't tried exercising yet.  I'd put the SQ up there with Bose and the Beoplay.  Very impressed and these isolate fully so they will have different usages than the Bose.  Will report back as I use them to run and to see if there are any cutouts.  I still think the lack of a charging module sucks a bit but maybe that's the tradeoff to keep the cost down.  And the pairing process is very finicky.



Having the same issue how do you reset them?


----------



## Tommy C

n1ckyb said:


> Having the same issue how do you reset them?



Hopefully this will help:


----------



## clerkpalmer

Put them both into pairing mode at the same time. Then select a master and pair it to your phone. Then hit the button on the slave for just a couple of seconds and it should search for the master and pair. Hope this helps.


----------



## n1ckyb

Thank you both the help.  I put them both into pairing mode (blinking fast red and blue), connect one and then when i hit the button on the slave for a few seconds it just says searching for slaves and nothing happens.  I'll reach out to tech support in the AM.  Thanks again


----------



## n1ckyb

Ok finally figured it out.  Had to put them in pairing mode at the same time to reset them.  Then had to turn them both off.  Then pair as normal per instructions


----------



## Tommy C

Can anyone compare the PSB TW1 and the Bose SoundSport Free?
I’m waiting for the PSB but can also get a good deal on the Free.
I mostly care about sound quality and fit, and while it’s nice to have a charging case it’s not a deal breaker for me if the PSB don’t have one.


----------



## clerkpalmer

Tommy C said:


> Can anyone compare the PSB TW1 and the Bose SoundSport Free?
> I’m waiting for the PSB but can also get a good deal on the Free.
> I mostly care about sound quality and fit, and while it’s nice to have a charging case it’s not a deal breaker for me if the PSB don’t have one.



I have both. Both great choices. In a nutshell, psb is warmer sounding and someone up thread described it as more musical. I would say the sound is fuller with better mids. Bose is more v shaped with boosted bass and a bit of a processed sound. Hard to say one is better. Both are way better than average in this category. Both have good stable fits. Probably comes down to personal preference. If price is a factor I would lean toward the psb. They sound equally good if not better for 100 less but you mentioned you had a deal on the Bose. So that might make it more difficult. I will add the psb may be more versatile as the Bose sq deteriorates in noisy environments. Good luck with your decision.


----------



## Tommy C

clerkpalmer said:


> I have both. Both great choices. In a nutshell, psb is warmer sounding and someone up thread described it as more musical. I would say the sound is fuller with better mids. Bose is more v shaped with boosted bass and a bit of a processed sound. Hard to say one is better. Both are way better than average in this category. Both have good stable fits. Probably comes down to personal preference. If price is a factor I would lean toward the psb. They sound equally good if not better for 100 less but you mentioned you had a deal on the Bose. So that might make it more difficult. I will add the psb may be more versatile as the Bose sq deteriorates in noisy environments. Good luck with your decision.



Awesome. That’s very helpful. 
I prefer fuller more musical sound. Not really a fan of V shaped sound though if mids are pushed back a bit or recessed it bothers me almost. 
Also I heard multiple complaints about the open back design. A colleague says it’s almost unbearable in a noisy environment.


----------



## clerkpalmer

Tommy C said:


> Awesome. That’s very helpful.
> I prefer fuller more musical sound. Not really a fan of V shaped sound though if mids are pushed back a bit or recessed it bothers me almost.
> Also I heard multiple complaints about the open back design. A colleague says it’s almost unbearable in a noisy environment.


Sounds like the PSB will be a good fit. With the Bose you definitely need to jack up the volume to maintain lows if there is noise.  I don't think you will be disappointed in the PSB once you get them paired... Hopefully a proper manual will be ready soon.


----------



## Tommy C

clerkpalmer said:


> Sounds like the PSB will be a good fit. With the Bose you definitely need to jack up the volume to maintain lows if there is noise.  I don't think you will be disappointed in the PSB once you get them paired... Hopefully a proper manual will be ready soon.



Just another question if you don’t mind. I read that when making a phone call using the Bose, the sound comes out only on the right side.
How about the PSB? Is it also one side or from both buds?


----------



## clerkpalmer

Tommy C said:


> Just another question if you don’t mind. I read that when making a phone call using the Bose, the sound comes out only on the right side.
> How about the PSB? Is it also one side or from both buds?


I'm not sure. Will try to take a call on them.


----------



## turbobb

Thank you guys for a very informative thread. Recently just started testing a few TW earbuds. While doing research noticed these new Jabra's (Elite 65t and Elite Active 65t):
https://www.jabra.com/bluetooth-headsets

They haven't been released yet but in case somehow somebody has tried these (i.e. via pre-release review sample) would be very interested to hear your thoughts.


----------



## Exidous

I had the Bose SSF for exactly 30 days. There is a thread on their community page about the left ear dropping out. It's down right horrendous. I gave Bose 30 days to update the firmware or at least say the have a fix planned. Nothing. Just runaround BS. 

It's truly a shame. They sounded decent for not supporting AAC or aptx. There were definitely compression artifacts but I used them for walking and working out. They NEVER fell out of my ears and they are very light. Decent battery (3ish hrs) and swapping from my phone to my watch was easy enough.

I could only use them indoors in smaller rooms. They require walls to bounce the signal from the right (master) to the left (slave) ear piece. Maybe the SSF 2's will support aptx (HD is we are lucky) and get the connectivity fixed. I want the rock solid air pods connection but in a unit that has nothing to do with Apple or sounds like crap.

Maybe this year?


----------



## murph65 (Jan 19, 2018)

Just a heads up for those having connection issues with truly wireless earphones and how Airpods seem to be the only ones with a solid connection - it's an android and/or Samsung phone issue.

    Have had the Amps Air since christmas which were cutting out badly with my Galaxy Note 3. Even around the house with my phone in my hand or pocket, constant dropouts - right ear or both buds. And using them in a mall food court, i turned them off - they were that unusable!

    If your phone is rooted, install this free app from the play store - https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=it.sineo.android.noFrillsCPU&hl=en and set the minimum clock frequency to 833 MHz. No more dropouts for my Amps, even in the food court


----------



## clerkpalmer

gorman said:


> I think they'll support SBC and AAC too. I'd be really surprised if they don't. SBC is mandatory, as far as I know.
> 
> But they're not fully wireless.



I really enjoyed the original RBH-SH so I ordered these new H-2s.  I have confirmed with RBH that they do not support AAC.  RBH does claim that the internal DAC/AMP will upscale sound and therefore I should not be disappointed that AAC is not supported.  Basically, they claim it comes down to money.  AAC is expensive to license and they chose to go with APXHD and Sony Lossless.  I know these are not TW but I'll report back with my impressions.


----------



## Exidous

I can say with absolute certainty, the source is not the issue with the Bose. Only the left (slave) drops out. Laptop, watch, iPod or Android phone. All provide the same results.

If I really try I can get the right to drop out but it's entirely on purpose.


----------



## Tommy C

clerkpalmer said:


> I really enjoyed the original RBH-SH so I ordered these new H-2s.  I have confirmed with RBH that they do not support AAC.  RBH does claim that the internal DAC/AMP will upscale sound and therefore I should not be disappointed that AAC is not supported.  Basically, they claim it comes down to money.  AAC is expensive to license and they chose to go with APXHD and Sony Lossless.  I know these are not TW but I'll report back with my impressions.



How’s the connection of the PSB?  
Haven’t seen any reported issues. 
I’m also curious is phone voice during phone calls come through from both buds, unlike the Bose which is a common complaint.


----------



## murph65

Exidous said:


> I can say with absolute certainty, the source is not the issue with the Bose. Only the left (slave) drops out. Laptop, watch, iPod or Android phone. All provide the same results.
> 
> If I really try I can get the right to drop out but it's entirely on purpose.


 
    Then maybe the fix i posted only pertains to those experiencing dropouts from both buds as i would get dropouts from the right bud (slave) only sometimes, other times both buds cut out at the same time. Now i happily get neither!


----------



## n1ckyb

Tommy C said:


> Can anyone compare the PSB TW1 and the Bose SoundSport Free?



I don't have the SoundSport Free to compare but I decided to return my PSBs.  It seemed they would randomly pause or go to another song.  Also the sound signature to me was a little too mellow and lifeless.  Felt the low end smeared some of the other frequencies and they just didn't have the detail I would have liked.  In full disclosure I have turned into a recent Grado fan so take my comments for what they are worth  Also the feeling of IEM in my ears was not very comfortable (which was like the feeling of wearing earplugs) and was just not for me.  If you're already an IEM fan this may be a non issue as well.   Also using the controls on the earbuds, as if for example you double tap the button, transfers the vibrational sound very loudly to your ears. That can get annoying pretty quick.

So after the above I decided to buy the Bose QuietControl 30s instead.  From reviews I've heard they are very comfortable and do not go into your ear canal as far as most IEM's.  Not sure how I will fair with their sound signature.  According to earlier comment about SoundsSport free and having to turn them up to loud, I figured having the NC should help me here.  I checked with Bose and technically they are not certified with an IPX rating but should be okay if I dry off earbuds with towel after exercise.  Also having the controls not on the ear should be better for me.  I also think having the neck band might actually be more convenient than full wireless as i can put them on and off quicker and not have to store them in the case or my pocket in between using.


----------



## clerkpalmer

n1ckyb said:


> I don't have the SoundSport Free to compare but I decided to return my PSBs.  It seemed they would randomly pause or go to another song.  Also the sound signature to me was a little too mellow and lifeless.  Felt the low end smeared some of the other frequencies and they just didn't have the detail I would have liked.  In full disclosure I have turned into a recent Grado fan so take my comments for what they are worth  Also the feeling of IEM in my ears was not very comfortable (which was like the feeling of wearing earplugs) and was just not for me.  If you're already an IEM fan this may be a non issue as well.   Also using the controls on the earbuds, as if for example you double tap the button, transfers the vibrational sound very loudly to your ears. That can get annoying pretty quick.
> 
> So after the above I decided to buy the Bose QuietControl 30s instead.  From reviews I've heard they are very comfortable and do not go into your ear canal as far as most IEM's.  Not sure how I will fair with their sound signature.  According to earlier comment about SoundsSport free and having to turn them up to loud, I figured having the NC should help me here.  I checked with Bose and technically they are not certified with an IPX rating but should be okay if I dry off earbuds with towel after exercise.  Also having the controls not on the ear should be better for me.  I also think having the neck band might actually be more convenient than full wireless as i can put them on and off quicker and not have to store them in the case or my pocket in between using.



I tried the QC30s about a year ago in an attempt to address the leakage issue with the regular soundsports.  I'll be interested to hear your impressions.  To me, the 30s seemed to be a bit dull and lifeless in comparison to the regular soundsports.  I'm not sure if it was the ANC that was contributing to it or not.  On the gym side of things, I would be careful.  The design is such that the USB port is exposed on the underside of the headphone.  I was very worried about them crapping out because even I had a few regular soundsports die on me as well.  If you don't sweat a ton, it's probably fine but I would worried if you are a heavy sweater.  Also, at least for me, I hated the collar.  It moved around all over the place in the gym and I had to constantly readjust them.  If your primary use is in the gym, that could become a PIA.  As for the fit, you are absolutely right.  Bose has this nailed.  Easy and comfortable and you don't have to jam them in your ears.


----------



## n1ckyb

clerkpalmer said:


> I tried the QC30s about a year ago in an attempt to address the leakage issue with the regular soundsports.  I'll be interested to hear your impressions.  To me, the 30s seemed to be a bit dull and lifeless in comparison to the regular soundsports.  I'm not sure if it was the ANC that was contributing to it or not.  On the gym side of things, I would be careful.  The design is such that the USB port is exposed on the underside of the headphone.  I was very worried about them crapping out because even I had a few regular soundsports die on me as well.  If you don't sweat a ton, it's probably fine but I would worried if you are a heavy sweater.  Also, at least for me, I hated the collar.  It moved around all over the place in the gym and I had to constantly readjust them.  If your primary use is in the gym, that could become a PIA.  As for the fit, you are absolutely right.  Bose has this nailed.  Easy and comfortable and you don't have to jam them in your ears.



Thanks for the advice.  So it seems like the ideal headphones for me might be the regular Soundsports if they would add NC to them   Will keep you posted after giving the 30's a try.


----------



## clerkpalmer

n1ckyb said:


> Thanks for the advice.  So it seems like the ideal headphones for me might be the regular Soundsports if they would add NC to them   Will keep you posted after giving the 30's a try.



Just posting my impressions.  You might love them. Let us know.  If you're willing to go with a neckband style, you might look at the VModa Forza Metallo wireless.  No ANC, but sound quality was the best I've heard from a BT IEM.  They are ultra comfortable and the band is designed better than the Bose band.


----------



## Tommy C

For those who don’t mind the neck cable the Focal Spark wireless are good in terms of sound.


----------



## Tommy C

I haven’t received the PSB yet; shipping to my office but we are closed weekends, so out of curiosity I went to audition the Sony WF1000X and the Bose SoundSport Free.

Just a quick impression since I have listened to both no more than 15 mins. 

Sony - shape, size and weight I find them to be a great fit, the NC works pretty good and the sound quality is not bad, pretty forward yet balanced sound but not much depth. Volume is plenty loud too. I didn’t download the app but you do get control over the NC and equalizer with the app.  
According to the sales rep battery is good for only 3 hours which is definitely not good enough for me. He said also the connection is better after the firmware update that Sony has released. 

Bose - large, heavier and bulky but they fit and feel pretty secure. As expected they don’t block noise and volume had to be set fairly loud to mask the noise around me which wasn’t even that loud.  Sound quality is good, slightly better than the Sony with more depth and 3D feeling. 
Battery should last 5 hours according to the sales rep.

If I had to choose between the two based on needs it will be a tough decision to make. In a way I liked the Sony a bit better because I can eq them and control the NC but the short battery life is a deal breaker probably. 
The Bose while offer nice sound is being affected too much by external noise. 

I’m looking forward to hear the PSB but one area of concern is that they don’t even have an app for them, so firmware updates are probably ain’t happening while Bose offers great support. 

Cheers.


----------



## clerkpalmer

Exidous said:


> I had the Bose SSF for exactly 30 days. There is a thread on their community page about the left ear dropping out. It's down right horrendous. I gave Bose 30 days to update the firmware or at least say the have a fix planned. Nothing. Just runaround BS.
> 
> It's truly a shame. They sounded decent for not support AAC?



Just wondering where you got this info. Most Bose support AAC. Regular soundsports do. Thanks.


----------



## Exidous

While not the same as confirmation, I couldn't find anywhere that said they did nor could I get it to work using multiple sources.

Note8
PC
iPod
BT DAP


----------



## CocaCola15

So after giving up and returning the Sony WF1000X (connectivity issues when outside and not all that impressed with the SQ) and the NuForce Optoma Be Free8 (connectivity issues when outside), I gave the Nuheara IQBuds a try, with a $30 discount coupon. In the house, they sounded pretty impressive, but on 3 separate dog walking excursions, not a single sound drop (I don't use much of their many tricks on hearing outside, just set them to "plane" and leave it at that). They do offer a bit of a challenge in terms of tapping them for functionality, you have to be careful when you handle them on the go. But I love that you can change the volume with them and pause, change tracks, etc. No need to touch the iPhone.

Are they on par with my best pair of IEMs? No (they are JH customs, an old pair of JH5s). But they are plenty good enough for these aging ears when it comes to wireless IEMs. I tip the bass a little with my player EQ (the wonderful KaiserTone app), and they sound great. You do have to ensure they are seated properly in the case for charging, but it's not that difficult (some people complained about that on Amazon reviews). Again, no issues with connection. You do have to keep your BT source (in my case, an IPhone8 Plus) in your left pocket, which is not a problem for me (when using with a winter coat), because the left bud controls the BT connection. They do cut out if you switch them to the right side.

As far as comfort and fit, they are awesome, The oval tips (reminiscent of the Klipsch X10 oval tips) are perfect, comfy and snug.

I am not going to say rush out and buy these but compared to the Sonys, they just work for me. The Sonys fell short, the sound kept crapping out. So I consider these an excellent alternative. You get a 30-day return window if you decide they don't meet specs.


----------



## Tommy C

So during phone calls both the Bose SoundSport Free and PSB TW1 play voice from one bud only, not both. Pretty disappointing since I needed them for conference calls as well and not just for the gym or my commute.


----------



## Exidous

It's a shame the nuheara iqbuds don't support aspx. For the price you'd think they would.


----------



## Tommy C

I think I should probably look at it as this whole completely wireless IEMs technology is not fully ripe yet.
I haven’t found a perfect set. In terms of sound the Bose and PSB TW1 are very good but fall short in other areas.


----------



## nc8000

To me the Beoplay E8 are good enough. Not without faults but the faults are few enough and far enough between that the convenience of fully wireless wins out.


----------



## n1ckyb (Jan 26, 2018)

clerkpalmer said:


> I tried the QC30s about a year ago in an attempt to address the leakage issue with the regular soundsports.  I'll be interested to hear your impressions.  To me, the 30s seemed to be a bit dull and lifeless in comparison to the regular soundsports.  I'm not sure if it was the ANC that was contributing to it or not.  On the gym side of things, I would be careful.  The design is such that the USB port is exposed on the underside of the headphone.  I was very worried about them crapping out because even I had a few regular soundsports die on me as well.  If you don't sweat a ton, it's probably fine but I would worried if you are a heavy sweater.  Also, at least for me, I hated the collar.  It moved around all over the place in the gym and I had to constantly readjust them.  If your primary use is in the gym, that could become a PIA.  As for the fit, you are absolutely right.  Bose has this nailed.  Easy and comfortable and you don't have to jam them in your ears.



So I have had the QC30s for several days now so can give my update.  For SQ they are a little bass heavy and the vocals sit a little too far back.  I've decided to use a little EQ to help with this issue and feel like it's a good compromise for me.   The neckband is definitely not ideal but I can live with it for the benefits it provides.  I'll typically leave the headphones around my neck constantly and can quickly take calls as well as listen to music now quickly when desired.  I really like the NC.  This is my first NC headphone and I'm sold on this.  Being able to have a nice silent background to really hear the music is outstanding.

These are great for use at the computer and needing to Skype, Google Hangout, etc.   I did notice that when using my Macbook, Apple's codec for bluetooth was resorting to a less than ideal setting when using both mic and headphones and the SQ was horrible.  Here's the solution if anyone else needs it:
https://www.areilly.com/2017/07/29/enabling-aac-and-aptx-over-bluetooth-on-macos/

Comfort is top notch.  It took me a little bit to really figure out how they are supposed to fit but once I did they are super comfortable and the little fin keeps them nice and locked into your ear.

Overall I can live with the downsides for now as I think they are good compromise and these are now my everything headphone (business and personal phone calls and online chat, walking and listening, exercising, wanting a quiet environment for listening, etc).  I'll use other headphones with a cord for when I want a better listening experience and when I have the right environment (quiet place, good DAC, etc).


----------



## clerkpalmer

For sq alone the psb have taken over the bose. I wear the bose to run. The fit is superb for that purpose. The psb really have a nice warm sound signature. Hard to believe WO AAC or aptx.


----------



## Tommy C

clerkpalmer said:


> For sq alone the psb have taken over the bose. I wear the bose to run. The fit is superb for that purpose. The psb really have a nice warm sound signature. Hard to believe WO AAC or aptx.



Agreed. I also prefer the fit of the PSB and the passive noise cancelling.  
I am probably not going to keep the Bose. 
Do you experience any connectivity issues in the left bud? 
This seem to be like a common issue outdoors but not so much indoors.


----------



## AlwaysForward

My Bose SSF have been great. When I first got them, there were occasionally left side drops which reconnect when you click the button on the left side. I really enjoy the sound and form factor quite a bit. The exaggerated bass helps with noisy environments and doesn’t bleed into the mids, which is really nice.


----------



## Tommy C (Jan 27, 2018)

AlwaysForward said:


> My Bose SSF have been great. When I first got them, there were occasionally left side drops which reconnect when you click the button on the left side. I really enjoy the sound and form factor quite a bit. The exaggerated bass helps with noisy environments and doesn’t bleed into the mids, which is really nice.


 
Do you still experience left side drops?
I don’t think the ‘fix’ should be pressing the left button to reconnect for a set of high end wireless earbuds. 
Has this been fixed with a firmware update?


----------



## clerkpalmer

I have not experienced dropouts with either Bose or PSB but I don’t use them outside. That would be annoying. I’m surprised Bose would release anything half baked but I’ve read the reviews on their website so it’s clearly a know issue.


----------



## Tommy C

clerkpalmer said:


> I have not experienced dropouts with either Bose or PSB but I don’t use them outside. That would be annoying. I’m surprised Bose would release anything half baked but I’ve read the reviews on their website so it’s clearly a know issue.




Yeah, I’m going to look into it:
https://community.bose.com/t5/Wirel...undsport-Free-Left-Headphone-Drops/td-p/81487


----------



## clerkpalmer

Tommy C said:


> Yeah, I’m going to look into it:
> https://community.bose.com/t5/Wirel...undsport-Free-Left-Headphone-Drops/td-p/81487


Bose has solid customer service. I expect they will address it with you.


----------



## AlwaysForward

Tommy C said:


> Do you still experience left side drops?
> I don’t think the ‘fix’ should be pressing the left button to reconnect for a set of high end wireless earbuds.
> Has this been fixed with a firmware update?



Haven’t had a drop in about 2 months but don’t know if it was an update or not.


----------



## Exidous

If you only use them in your house or say at work they will probably not drop out. The moment you go outside and you aren't near a lot of solid vertical objects they are done for. They do great in small rooms. In a large weight lifting room they are a nightmare.

As of 8 days ago mine were still terrible. They belong to the store again. I really wanted them to work. As for customer service, while I never contacted them directly, in the forums I got nothing but runaround bull over and over. NEVER a straight answer. The fact that they were incapable of being honest put me off to the extreme.


----------



## Tommy C

clerkpalmer said:


> Bose has solid customer service. I expect they will address it with you.



Yeah, I sure hope so.  
Not really worried just find the suggestions of the Mods of the Bose forum to be ridiculous. Definitely a shake my head suggestions  lol


----------



## Tommy C

Exidous said:


> If you only use them in your house or say at work they will probably not drop out. The moment you go outside and you aren't near a lot of solid vertical objects they are done for. They do great in small rooms. In a large weight lifting room they are a nightmare.
> 
> As of 8 days ago mine were still terrible. They belong to the store again. I really wanted them to work. As for customer service, while I never contacted them directly, in the forums I got nothing but runaround bull over and over. NEVER a straight answer. The fact that they were incapable of being honest put me off to the extreme.



Pretty much so far. No issues indoors even with multiple BT devices nor cellphones around me.  In a busy environment they are not as good.


----------



## webreaper (Jan 30, 2018)

Okay, so as the OP, here's a quick summary of where I'm at. 

I've been on the hunt for some BT IEMs for a while, but without much success. Sony WF1000X have been roundly slated, Zolo Liberty's have varying reports with a lot of people talking about dropouts. Bose SoundSport Free have good reports, but they're too open-backed and unwieldy. Bose E8s seem to have the best reviews of sound quality and connection stability but they're fiercely expensive and still suffer occasional dropouts, apparently. The other problem I have is that I have a set of Sennheiser IE80s with custom-moulded sleeves, which give amazing sound, comfort and noise insulation - and I didn't really want to give them up. So I abandoned the idea of wire-free IEMs, and when they were on discount last month I ordered a PlusSound Exo BT Cable.

PlusSound is a tiny company with a small number of employees, but they're extremely responsive to emails, and customer service is superb. Because of their size/popularity the build time is quite long - it was 10 weeks from when I ordered to when it was delivered.

After a few hours' use, here's my impressions.
- Comfort: excellent. The controller/BT unit looks unwieldy but is unnoticeable in real use because it's so light. Controls are simple. Weird thing is that on my cable the 'up' volume was at the bottom and vice versa, but it's no biggie.
- BT connection: seems rock-solid so far. At home, on the train and walking down the street, I've had no dropouts at all so far (2-3 hours use). When trying out how to wear them (cable under the chin, or round the back of my neck) I found the latter resulted in a poor connection, but I've no idea why. Looped under the chin it's unbreakable, regardless of the pocket I have the phone in (Galaxy S7E). While getting breakfast in the cafeteria I left the phone on the side and walked over to the cutlery stand - about 20-30ft away - and the connection didn't drop.
- Sound quality: very good. Drives the IE80s really well. Bass actually seems to have a bit more oomph than with my 3.5mm cable; I'm guessing the PlusSound DAC is slightly better than the S7's. Really pleased with the sound, and so far haven't been able to hear any BT hiss at all. A few test tracks ('Fields of Joy' and 'Sister' by Kravitz, '1984' by the Eurythmics, and 'Release the Pressure' by Leftfield) all delivered with clarity and gusto. 
- Battery: haven't had a chance to test this fully, as I've only used them for a 2-hour stint so far. But no concerns as yet.
- Video Lag: This was a big concern to me, because I watch a lot of movies during my commute. First attempt was pretty awful - a DTS rip playing on VLC for Android and the sound was about 2s out of sync. However, Netflix shows played with perfect sync, and when I tried Archos Player I could use the audio delay setting to get perfect sync. Downside is that Archos doesn't support all codecs. Eventually, I've switched to MX Player, which has audio sync settings - but even then it was still impossible to get the sound and video to match. The solution was to turn off hardware decoding on the audio, and then everything lined up perfectly. 

To sum up, very pleased. All the quality and performance of my choice of IEMs, plus the ability to continue using my custom sleeves, but without the hassle of a long cable, is a total win.

PS: Unfortunately, the first BT cable I received turned out to have the wrong connectors (they were for Custom IEMs/CIEMs, instead of Sennheiser IE80s) but Christian at PlusSound rectified it for me quickly and sent me a complimentary replacement. Rather than just let them sit in a drawer, if anyone in the UK has CIEMs and wants one of these cables, email me (mark@otway.com), and we'll sort out paying PlusSound something, and I'll post them on.


----------



## rhsauer

turbobb said:


> Thank you guys for a very informative thread. Recently just started testing a few TW earbuds. While doing research noticed these new Jabra's (Elite 65t and Elite Active 65t):
> https://www.jabra.com/bluetooth-headsets
> 
> They haven't been released yet but in case somehow somebody has tried these (i.e. via pre-release review sample) would be very interested to hear your thoughts.



I pre-ordered these from Best Buy several weeks ago and they arrived last night — a pleasant surprise, because the Jabra website still lists them as “coming soon” and the Best Buy website lists them as “Sold Out Online.”  Bottom line:  they far exceed my expectations.  They sound great, the microphones work incredibly well (I was able to make a clear call this morning from the subway platform at Grand Central), they fit extremely well, they’re comfortable and they isolate very well.  I have the Jabra Sport Elites, and the 65t’s are better fitting and more comfortable (for my ears, anyway), have better microphones and have a more refined sound.  (Slightly less bass, but still warm and clear, with no sibilance.)  Even though Jabra lists the usual 10 meters/33 foot range for these, when connected to my iPhone X I was able to roam my entire apartment without a signal drop off, which exceeds the range of even the Class 1 Bluetooth 4.2 devices I’ve used.  I used them for about three hours last night and the battery was still at 70%, according to my iPhone.  Finally, they connect to my Mac using the AAC codec, like the Jabra Sport Elites.  Very happy with these.


----------



## San Man

My E8s still continue to be very solid.   I can count the number of dropouts I've had on two hands, maybe even one hand.

My only gripe is that I wish they could play a little louder.   iPhone X as a source, primarily listening to Apple music while at the gym and on the go.   Some pandora too.


----------



## clerkpalmer

rhsauer said:


> I pre-ordered these from Best Buy several weeks ago and they arrived last night — a pleasant surprise, because the Jabra website still lists them as “coming soon” and the Best Buy website lists them as “Sold Out Online.”  Bottom line:  they far exceed my expectations.  They sound great, the microphones work incredibly well (I was able to make a clear call this morning from the subway platform at Grand Central), they fit extremely well, they’re comfortable and they isolate very well.  I have the Jabra Sport Elites, and the 65t’s are better fitting and more comfortable (for my ears, anyway), have better microphones and have a more refined sound.  (Slightly less bass, but still warm and clear, with no sibilance.)  Even though Jabra lists the usual 10 meters/33 foot range for these, when connected to my iPhone X I was able to roam my entire apartment without a signal drop off, which exceeds the range of even the Class 1 Bluetooth 4.2 devices I’ve used.  I used them for about three hours last night and the battery was still at 70%, according to my iPhone.  Finally, they connect to my Mac using the AAC codec, like the Jabra Sport Elites.  Very happy with these.



Thanks for the feedback.  I enjoyed the Elite Sports until they were overtaken by the Bose in the SQ and fit department.  I thought they were a good product that was well ahead of the curve given that they came out so early and almost never dropped out.  The SQ on them was passable but that's about it.  It's good to know they improved the SQ.  Did you get the active version or the regular?


----------



## MIBUK

rhsauer said:


> I pre-ordered these from Best Buy several weeks ago and they arrived last night — a pleasant surprise, because the Jabra website still lists them as “coming soon” and the Best Buy website lists them as “Sold Out Online.”  Bottom line:  they far exceed my expectations.  They sound great, the microphones work incredibly well (I was able to make a clear call this morning from the subway platform at Grand Central), they fit extremely well, they’re comfortable and they isolate very well.  I have the Jabra Sport Elites, and the 65t’s are better fitting and more comfortable (for my ears, anyway), have better microphones and have a more refined sound.  (Slightly less bass, but still warm and clear, with no sibilance.)  Even though Jabra lists the usual 10 meters/33 foot range for these, when connected to my iPhone X I was able to roam my entire apartment without a signal drop off, which exceeds the range of even the Class 1 Bluetooth 4.2 devices I’ve used.  I used them for about three hours last night and the battery was still at 70%, according to my iPhone.  Finally, they connect to my Mac using the AAC codec, like the Jabra Sport Elites.  Very happy with these.



Do you have the sports version? Have you run with them on if they are the sports version?


----------



## turbobb

@rhsauer - Thx for chiming in! Have you played around with the app? Also any cut-out's so far between the two?


----------



## rhsauer (Feb 13, 2018)

I have the regular version, not the sports version.  (I don’t think the sports version is available yet).  The fit (for me) is very stable, and I'm sure I'd have no trouble running in them.  YMMV, since fit is very dependent on ear size and shape.  (The Jabra Elite Sport did not fit at all with any of the supplied tips -- I had to use a tip that doesn't fit in the case perfectly.)  The connection seems stable, generally. I’ve had one instance where I needed to put the buds back in the case for a moment to “re-pair” them to each other (the left bud wasn’t getting a signal).  That happened (rarely) to the Jabra Elite Sports too.  There’s also some sort of transmitter near the door to my office that causes all Bluetooth headphones to go crazy as I walk through that door, and these are not immune to that.  I noticed they are now available again for order on the Best Buy site.


----------



## Tommy C (Feb 3, 2018)

I haven’t found a perfect or close to perfect wireless IEM.
In terms of sound I would rate PSB TW1 the highest and then Bose, Soundsport Free and then Sony. I haven’t tried B&O e8 and not planning to as they use leather in their case and I don’t do leather.
Back to topic, the lack of carrying case of the PSB is a bit annoying, not a deal break if you carry a small backpack or a power bank in your pocket - not ideal but not a deal breaker. The open back design of Bose is pretty much a deal breaker for me. Even at work I can hear everything around me, they are probably best suited when jogging but in a noisy environment sound quality drops dramatically so it’s reallt counterproductive.
What bothers me the most is that with all those true wireless IEMs while making a call sound is coming out from one side only.
This is super frustrating because I need them also for calls during the day and it’s just annoying.
I’m going to look into Jabra due to sound coming out from both buds during phone calls, based on what I was told.
I’m starting to question myself if for the money and sound quality do I really need a true wireless earphones  when a product like Focal Spark while not completely wireless is much cheaper but sounds very good and has a solid battery life for about 8+ hours.


----------



## clerkpalmer

If you are an android user definitely check out the new rbh bt set discusses above. Built in dac and amp should make for a sweet sounding set.


----------



## Tommy C

clerkpalmer said:


> If you are an android user definitely check out the new rbh bt set discusses above. Built in dac and amp should make for a sweet sounding set.



Thanks, im actually an iPhone user but will look into that. 
How are you enjoying your Bose and PSB so far?


----------



## Tommy C

Just as an FYI - Bose Soundsport Free is 25% off from Bose Canada, Best Buy, Amazon Canada and most major retailers.
It looks like this is a promo buy Bose itself. 
Is V2 coming out soon or what?


----------



## Tommy C

Jabra Elite Sport and the Bose Soundsport Free both on sale now in Canada and U.S.
The Jabra is surprisingly good. Feature-packed and solid connection and while the sound of PSB is better Jabra offers a more complete package if you need the additional features and charging case.
Bose still has issues with video syncing and they are very limited in noisy environments. While they sound good the open design makes them sound really bad if you’re in a loud gym, mall or just strolling down a busy street.  While at home they sound lovely though, but what’s the point then...


----------



## TooFrank

San Man said:


> My E8s still continue to be very solid.   I can count the number of dropouts I've had on two hands, maybe even one hand.
> 
> My only gripe is that I wish they could play a little louder.   iPhone X as a source, primarily listening to Apple music while at the gym and on the go.   Some pandora too.


Agree on sq etc. Loudness for me is ok. Have you tried different tips? Better isolation will in theory give higher volume.


----------



## Tommy C (Feb 12, 2018)

Jajo said:


> I bought the AirPods which I really like, but decided to also try out the Bose SoundSport Free because their form factor intrigued me. The sound is definitely better than the AirPods, but they are lacking in isolation (but better than AirPods) and volume.  There just isn’t enough volume, and I am not the type to blast volume through my IEMs.
> 
> Pairing them between different devices (iPhone to Watch then back) is a huge pain in the butt.  I currently cannot pair them back up to the iPhone.  Also I hate that phone calls come into the right earphone instead of both.  I always use my left to make phone calls.
> 
> ...



Have you tried the PSB? I settled on the Jabra Elite Sport V2 as they tick many boxes for me and much more.
Phone calls come from both sides, they are plenty loud and has eq. Great isolation with pass through, it works ok for traffic and pretty good when you stop the music to talk to people. Very solid battery life with a great small case.  Most importantly the connecton is rock solid both around the house and in an urban environment with zero cutouts.
Like you, I find the Bose not to be loud enough and isolation is very bad. They are good if you use them at home but they won’t work as a daily driver for most people IMO.
Jabra has a very good sound and this has improved after I downloaded the latest firmware.
If you need them for the gym they are feature rich with the Jabra app and equipped with a heart rate monitor.
I used my own tips, personal preference more than anything else as they fit me perfectly and provide a super tight fit. They are on the thicker side, and go in your ear more like custom IEMs, some will need to get used to it. It may not be upset comfortable and I had this issue with many other IEMs.
After a few days it feels perfect, at least in my case.
For the price they are going now the Jabra Elite Sport are a major go.
Overall I’m very impressed.


----------



## jhoff80

rhsauer said:


> I pre-ordered these from Best Buy several weeks ago and they arrived last night — a pleasant surprise, because the Jabra website still lists them as “coming soon” and the Best Buy website lists them as “Sold Out Online.”  Bottom line:  they far exceed my expectations.  They sound great, the microphones work incredibly well (I was able to make a clear call this morning from the subway platform at Grand Central), they fit extremely well, they’re comfortable and they isolate very well.  I have the Jabra Sport Elites, and the 65t’s are better fitting and more comfortable (for my ears, anyway), have better microphones and have a more refined sound.  (Slightly less bass, but still warm and clear, with no sibilance.)  Even though Jabra lists the usual 10 meters/33 foot range for these, when connected to my iPhone X I was able to roam my entire apartment without a signal drop off, which exceeds the range of even the Class 1 Bluetooth 4.2 devices I’ve used.  I used them for about three hours last night and the battery was still at 70%, according to my iPhone.  Finally, they connect to my Mac using the AAC codec, like the Jabra Sport Elites.  Very happy with these.



If you don't have the case with you, do these turn off at all?  My thought would be that I'd want to bring the headphones on my 40 minute walk to and from work, but I probably wouldn't want to bring the case with me daily.


----------



## clerkpalmer

New Jabra 65t are getting excellent reviews on Best Buy and CNET loved them.  Tempting.


----------



## Tommy C

clerkpalmer said:


> New Jabra 65t are getting excellent reviews on Best Buy and CNET loved them.  Tempting.



Sound quality  should be better than the Elite Sport but based on reviews while they may sound good I think the Elite Sport is still the better bang for the buck at similar price if not cheaper.
A friend who uses the Elite Sport and demoed the 65t said they fit better and the sound is clear but leaner with less bass.
Also there are some reported issues with phone calls and echo which I hope can be fixed with a firmware update.
Based on what I see online and according to what I was told they don’t necessarily sound better but the fit is much better than the Elite Sport which makes them possibly also sound better.
The packaging and accessories is pretty basic and by judging from stuff on YouTube it’s definitely more of budget model. Comes with only 3 silicon tips, no foam tips or ear wings and the case according to my friend is very flimsy.
Hoping to demo them soon as I’m very curious although I have no issues with the fit of the Elite Sport.


----------



## defbear

I read all the comments about the Bose SoundSport Free dropouts and syncing issues. I thought Nah! Not Bose. So I bought a pair at Target. Downloaded the Bose Connect app and followed the instructions. It took 30 seconds for the App to spout up that the left earpiece had disconnected. Great! But I thought Nah! Not Bose. So I plugged the case in and put the earpieces in and let the whole thing charge up. I tried them again and checked the sync issue with Youtube. Terrible. I downloaded the Firmware Update. When it finished installing, I checked the sync issue. Still there. I put them in the case for 20 seconds so they could ‘reboot’. Took them back out and Youtube syncing problem gone. So I have had them for a couple of weeks and no syncing issues with any app or website. No dropouts. I never had a problem with the left earpiece except for the first boot up. Lastly, the Bose SoundSport Free sounds wonderful. Nope it’s not my se846’s or my ie800’s, but wow, I’m surprised. I’m getting a good seal with the largest set of ear tips. Instead of getting a seal inside the ear canal these seal the outside opening like a plunger. The sound is dynamic yet smooth. No distortion. Solid bass, not woofy or indistinct. I’m impressed and would buy them again. I am using them with an iPhone 6+ running iOS 10.3 and an iPad Pro running iOS 11. I haven’t tried Android or PC yet.


----------



## Tommy C (Feb 21, 2018)

The Bose SoundSport Free Sound is very good. Syncing issue is a bit annoying but wasn’t a deal breaker. Whatever I tried, it didn’t fix it.
The open back design  was where they struggle for me and they were not loud enough, and I’m not the kind of person to blast my ears. 
The deal breaker for me was that the sound while making calls comes only from the right side.  Since I use my earphones at work as well, often in a noisy environment, and the already low volume levels, it was impossible to manage.  I wish they would have done differently the call set up as they sound very good in general.
Tested on iPhone 6s.


----------



## clerkpalmer

Thanks. Sq is what caused me to get rid of the elite sports. I hadn’t really considered these a downgrade from them but you may be right that these are positioned below the elite sport. The new Sony sports version releases 3/12. Might wait to see those.


----------



## Tommy C

clerkpalmer said:


> Thanks. Sq is what caused me to get rid of the elite sports. I hadn’t really considered these a downgrade from them but you may be right that these are positioned below the elite sport. The new Sony sports version releases 3/12. Might wait to see those.



I am not able to get a good seal with the stock silicone tips and the first day or two were underwhelming. After I found the right 3rd party tips they really came to life. 
Also, did you have the Elite Sport V1 or V2?


----------



## clerkpalmer

V1. Fit was great. Sq not so much.


----------



## Tommy C

clerkpalmer said:


> V1. Fit was great. Sq not so much.



I wonder if there is a difference in sq between V1 and V2 since you’re not the only one who feels this way.


----------



## clerkpalmer

I don't think seal was the issue as I had plenty of bass.  I thought they sounded bass heavy and a bit muddy.  Passable for gym use but would never pull them out in any other setting.  As an aside, the lack of a charging case on the PSB is really unacceptable.  I enjoy the fit and SQ but they last at best 3 hours on a full charge and with no charging case it has become a complete nuisance.  Some might say it's no big deal but having to charge another gadget is a pain in the rear.  The Bose stay charged for 2 weeks with the case and multiple gym sessions.  I think PSB missed the boat.  I'm keeping them but I'm not sure I'd recommend them.  I might hold out to see if what the new Sonys have to offer.


----------



## jhoff80 (Feb 21, 2018)

Apparently Qualcomm has some improvements in this area coming to devices in the second half of the year as well:



> Running on QCC5100 SoCs, the updated Qualcomm TrueWireless Stereo technology is designed to offer consumers an improved user and listening experience regardless of smartphone platform and includes an easier pairing experience with no need to pair individual earbuds. The updates to the technology also engineered to include the ability to autonomously role switch each earbud between primary and secondary roles in order to balance power consumption more evenly between the buds for longer playback time.
> 
> Qualcomm TrueWireless Stereo Plus is an additional mode of the technology designed to eliminate the need for cross-head Bluetooth® transmission by simultaneously connecting the mobile device to both earbuds. In this new operating mode only the relevant audio content is engineered to relay to each bud helping to improve robustness and more evenly balance power consumption. When paired with a QCC5100 series based device and the Qualcomm® Snapdragon™ 845 Mobile Platform Qualcomm TrueWireless Stereo Plus can help to reduce power consumption by up to an additional 10 percent, typically helping to deliver an extra hour of listening time before recharge is needed. Additionally, Qualcomm TrueWireless Stereo Plus supports an even simpler pairing experience when connecting earbuds to the mobile device and helps to reduce latency because both buds are connected directly to the smartphone.



https://www.prnewswire.com/news-rel...truewireless-stereo-technology-300601705.html


----------



## Tommy C

I thought the same about the Elite Sport at first as I’m not crazy about too much bass. 
After finding the right tips and after a week plus I find the the sound to be very good. 
I don’t necessarily believe in break-in but that’s a whole new topic. 
I have returned the PSB - I liked the sound very much but phone calls from only one side is a deal breaker. The lack of charging case is a bit annoying indeed.  
I am on the fence about keeping the SoundSport Free though. 
On a different note - I did some a/b comparison better the Jabra Elite Sport and the PSB M4U4 which I really like snd they are not too far in terms of sound signature. 
Soundstage is surprisingly wider on the Jabra Elite, both have mellow highs the bass is pretty close too, mids are a bit better on the PSB but it’s close.


----------



## clerkpalmer

jhoff80 said:


> Apparently Qualcomm has some improvements in this area coming to devices in the second half of the year as well:
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.prnewswire.com/news-rel...truewireless-stereo-technology-300601705.html


Fascinating.  Looks like Android version of the W1 chip.  Strictly Android however although it appears perhaps that the Android only benefit is the battery consumption.


----------



## MIBUK

For those that have the Elite Sport, do they sync well with video?


----------



## Tommy C

MIBUK said:


> For those that have the Elite Sport, do they sync well with video?



Yeah, that was the first thing that I checked. Mine sync perfectly with YouTube vids, using the YouTube app nor browser.


----------



## rhsauer

jhoff80 said:


> If you don't have the case with you, do these turn off at all?  My thought would be that I'd want to bring the headphones on my 40 minute walk to and from work, but I probably wouldn't want to bring the case with me daily.


Yes, you can turn them off without the case.  But the case is so small you won’t mind bringing it with you.


----------



## Tommy C

rhsauer said:


> Yes, you can turn them off without the case.  But the case is so small you won’t mind bringing it with you.



Speaking of cases, Bose SoundSport Free has a good case, problem is it’s a beast.
I slowly accepting the fact that there is no perfect set of wireless earphones yet, and I’m not evening talking about sound but more so functionality and features. 

@clerkpalmer how do you like the Bose case?


----------



## clerkpalmer

Tommy C said:


> @clerkpalmer how do you like the Bose case?



I love the Bose case because it actually works as advertised.  It actually holds a charge and doesn't go dead over time.  My Jabra case would just die over time making it useless.  Size doesn't bother me much.


----------



## Tommy C

clerkpalmer said:


> I love the Bose case because it actually works as advertised.  It actually holds a charge and doesn't go dead over time.  My Jabra case would just die over time making it useless.  Size doesn't bother me much.



It does hold charge extremely well. I haven’t compared it to the Jabra case but now when you mentioned that I will. 
My only issue is with its size when I try to stay light and portable.


----------



## david8613

Hey guys have any of you compared the Samsung iconx 2018 to the jabra 65t, b&o e8 or the Jay bird runs? I have the iconx 2018 and im totally happy with them but I'm wondering how these others compare? Getting the itch to buy some back ups and give away my jay bird x3 i use as back ups right now.


----------



## picapau

david8613 said:


> Hey guys have any of you compared the Samsung iconx 2018 to the jabra 65t, b&o e8 or the Jay bird runs? I have the iconx 2018 and im totally happy with them but I'm wondering how these others compare? Getting the itch to buy some back ups and give away my jay bird x3 i use as back ups right now.



Hi All,

Long time reader, first time poster. Be kind regarding my reviews below  I've been following all the wireless IEM thread's for a while now and have managed to go through a whole range of earbuds and ended up settling on the Jabra Elite 65T. For me they don't seem to have any fatal flaws with regards to the microphone, connection and noise isolation. They also happen to be the cheapest but because they are relatively new they wont be discounted for a while. 

I've outlined my scores with some comments below. All tested with a MacBook 2016 and iPhone X. 

0 - Fail/Deal breaker
1 - Acceptable
2 - Good
3 - Amazing


*AirPods*

Connection    2 - Solid, but sometime take ages to connect and I need to go into the settings.
Audio            1 - Surprisingly good in a quiet environment when the fit into the ear is good
Isolation        0 - Rubbish, can hear everything 
Video            3 - Perfect on all devices 
Voice            3 - Best hands free kit money can buy. Only product to get a 3 in this category. 
Controls        1 - Tap gestures are limited and don't always work
Fit                1 - Not perfect, with quite a loose fit. Very comfortable though because of it. 

Total =         11

*B&O E8 * 
Connection    2 - I had no major issues, solid enough connection.
Audio            1-2 - Personally, these were not the best. Much better after using their equaliser. 
Isolation        2 - As for any IEM
Video            2-3 - No real issues
Voice            0 - Awful microphone for phone calls and unusable outside. Picks up huge background noise.
Controls        1 - Touch controls did not always work
Fit                2 - Very slightly bulky but fit well with multiple supplied earbuds

Total =         11

*Sony WF1000X*

Connection    1 - Frequent jumps and skips, not very annoying; possibly related to noise cancellation
Audio            2 - One of the best for sound. Equal to the Bose. 
Isolation        3 - Best noise isolation/cancellation of all
Video            0 - Out of sync with audio lag
Voice            1 - Acceptable microphone 
Controls        1 - No way to control the volume from the headset
Fit                2 - Very light, easy to wear IEM's. Stick out quite a bit though and have silly flashing blue lights

Total =         10

*Bose Soundsport Wireless Free*

Connection    2 - Giving it a two but the left ear bud did occasionally cut out or switch off by it self
Audio            2 - Open sound due to the design, very good bass
Isolation        0 - Awful; Used these in noisy environments and could hear everything around me
Video            2-3 - Despite all the negative reviews, with the latest firmware I had no issues
Voice            2 - One of the best microphones I tested
Controls        1 - Hard to press the physical buttons but otherwise pretty good
Fit                2 - Very bulky, stick out a long way but actually stay in very well

Total =         11.5

*Samsung ICONX 2018*

Connection    1-2 - I think this is stable enough but right bud had connection issues (see "Fit" comment)
Audio            1-2 - Good balanced audio with decent bass
Isolation        2 - as for any IEM
Video            0 - Video lag on Mac and iPhone X on all apps - unusable
Voice            1 - Good in a quiet environment but very bad when noisy
Controls        2 - The most reliable touch controls I used
Fit                0 - Left was perfect; Right kept getting dislodged regardless of tips/wings; there is proximity sensor which kept activating/deactivating. 

Total =          8

*Jabra Elite 65T*

Connection    2-3 - Bluetooth 5, Solid with no major issues. Can connect to 2 devices at the same time. 
Audio            1-2 - Not the best out of the box but much better after using the equaliser to adjust the sound
Isolation        2 - As for any IEM
Video            1-2 - Largely no great audio lag - usable
Voice            2 - Best microphone but can be argued it is a bit too loud for the other person listening. 
Controls        1 - A bit fiddly and earbuds get pressed into ear due to the physical buttons. 
Fit                2 - Go deep and stay in my ear perfectly. Feel comfortable enough for long periods. 

Total =          12.5


----------



## FieldingMellish

picapau said:


> Hi All,
> 
> Long time reader, first time poster. Be kind regarding my reviews below  I've been following all the wireless IEM thread's for a while now and have managed to go through a whole range of earbuds and ended up settling on the Jabra Elite 65T. For me they don't seem to have any fatal flaws with regards to the microphone, connection and noise isolation. They also happen to be the cheapest but because they are relatively new they wont be discounted for a while.
> 
> ...



I'm being kind by saying that I stopped paying attention to your review after having read the early parts:

Airpods / Voice / Voice 3 - Best hands free kit money can buy. Only product to get a 3 in this category.

Reason: I demoed the Airpods in our local Apple store. A couple test calls out were unsuccessful because callers I reached where unable to discern what I was saying over the ambient noise in the store, which they felt was amplified.

In turn, you claim for B&O E8 / voice  / Awful microphone for phone calls and unusable outside. Picks up huge background noise.

I demoed the E8 in our local B&O store, and the callers I contacted indicated they heard me well and that the sound was mellifluous.

But in comparison:

I believe that both Airpods and E8 stink to make calls with when in a noisy environment. E8 the worse for it if the IEM's are setup for max isolation, in which case you cannot hear yourself speak. Airpods open design allow you to at least hear yourself speak.


----------



## picapau (Feb 22, 2018)

FieldingMellish said:


> I'm being kind by saying that I stopped paying attention to your review after having read the early parts:
> 
> Airpods / Voice / Voice 3 - Best hands free kit money can buy. Only product to get a 3 in this category.
> 
> ...



Being new I'm not looking for any arguments, just interested in a good debate. I used the AirPods for 14 months and each of the other earphones for at least 1 week. I live and work in central London and did almost the same journey via the tube and alongside busy roads every day with each pair. The reason I feel I am in a good position to comment on the quality of the microphones is that over the 14 months I used the AirPods it was very rare any one ever mentioned that they couldn't hear me. I used that as a marker of microphone quality. The B&O e8's were so bad that I actually rung the B&O store with them to show them what they sounded like around traffic and with wind. My wife even refused to talk to me if I had them in on my way back from work unless I put my AirPods back on. The store agreed a full refund after hearing the phone call but did say that they were unable to fix the problem even if they gave me a new pair. They also said that a firmware update may fix the issue but they couldn't promise when that might happen. This also appears to be a problem picked up by others on the beoworld forums as well: https://forum.beoworld.org/forums/p/28412/225079.aspx#225079 and https://forum.beoworld.org/forums/p/28115/222012.aspx.

I tested all the other microphones in a similar manner and used the AirPods as the bench mark and when the other person couldn't hear me I swapped over to the AirPods to see if they could and 9 times out of 10 they could. I even made sound recording with some of them to test the microphone in various environments. Sounds a bit OCD but for me the quality of the microphone is almost as important as the music or connectivity. I make a lot of calls with headsets when travelling or commuting.

The two caveat's to my reviews above are that I could have received a slightly defective pair and not noticed it. Also the model of phone used could potentially make a difference. The AirPods probably work best with iPhones using a W1 chip. Unfortunately I don't have an Android phone to be able to test this.


----------



## FieldingMellish

picapau said:


> Being new I'm not looking for any arguments.




Your review is perfect in every way.


----------



## ceeloChamp

I wanted to go wireless so badly and wireless is great for a lot of things; I use my HD1 over-ears when I fly, I use my Airpods when I workout/climb and when I take work phone calls, but for everything else they just aren't as good. 

I was really interested in trying the new Audio Technica, apparently they have developed a new wireless technology which is supposed to produce an 'audiophile level' sound...I'm skeptical. 

Also I'm a believer that different cables make a difference and I'd hate to see independent cable companies out of business!


----------



## Jeepz (Feb 22, 2018)

picapau said:


> *Jabra Elite 65T*
> 
> Connection    2-3 - Bluetooth 5, Solid with no major issues. Can connect to 2 devices at the same time.
> Audio            1-2 - Not the best out of the box but much better after using the equaliser to adjust the sound
> ...



TIMELY REVIEW on the Jabra Elite 65T! Thank you. I was hearing good first impressions on reddit and on the BestBuy site but figured I'd wait for a passing grade from my Head-fi.org bros 

Hoping to replace my AirPods with these.


----------



## Tommy C

Would anyone know if there are some 3rd party tips available for the Bose Soundsport Free?
Also I don’t know if it’s my ears playing tricks on me but some tracks have recessed mids on the Bose but sound more balanced with other earphones and headphones. This is in a quiet environment so it’s not an open back kind of issue.


----------



## Jeepz

Why are people so impressed by the AirPods mics? Even the microphone on the wired EarPods sounds better. Is the bar for wireless mics that low?


----------



## ceeloChamp

Jeepz said:


> Why are people so impressed by the AirPods mics? Even the microphone on the wired EarPods sounds better. Is the bar for wireless mics that low?



What is bad about the mic? I’ve used them pretty much everyday since they were released and no one has had any problems hearing me.


----------



## Jeepz

ceeloChamp said:


> What is bad about the mic? I’ve used them pretty much everyday since they were released and no one has had any problems hearing me.


They're OK for basic communication. They sound like a low quality MP3 played back through an old school rotary phone. Probably due to the SCO codec. I wouldn't do any conference calls with them.


----------



## ceeloChamp

Jeepz said:


> They're OK for basic communication. They sound like a low quality MP3 played back through an old school rotary phone. Probably due to the SCO codec. I wouldn't do any conference calls with them.



Lol, I did 3 conference calls with them today. People heard me fine, on paper they may not be as technically savvy, but unless you are calling an audiophile I think they are more than sufficient.


----------



## Jeepz

ceeloChamp said:


> Lol, I did 3 conference calls with them today. People heard me fine, on paper they may not be as technically savvy, but unless you are calling an audiophile I think they are more than sufficient.



Let's be honest, in practice they don't sound great and could be improved a lot. As I said, I go back to using my EarPods microphone (the cheap crappy headphones that came with my iPhone) if I want people to hear me more clearly. It doesn't take an audiophile to hear the difference.


----------



## ceeloChamp

We are both entitled to our views. I maintain that as long as someone can hear me when I speak the Mic has enough clarity, it's fine if you want more than that. Maybe the next iteration of Airpod will improve on that, but it sounds like all they are adding is wireless charging and hands-free 'hey siri' which is a waste of time.


----------



## Jeepz

ceeloChamp said:


> We are both entitled to our views. I maintain that as long as someone can hear me when I speak the Mic has enough clarity, it's fine if you want more than that. Maybe the next iteration of Airpod will improve on that, but it sounds like all they are adding is wireless charging and hands-free 'hey siri' which is a waste of time.


next gen AirPods will definitely be incremental. possibly W2 chip with Bluetooth 5.0 support for better battery, connection and range.


----------



## picapau

ceeloChamp said:


> Lol, I did 3 conference calls with them today. People heard me fine, on paper they may not be as technically savvy, but unless you are calling an audiophile I think they are more than sufficient.





Jeepz said:


> Let's be honest, in practice they don't sound great and could be improved a lot. As I said, I go back to using my EarPods microphone (the cheap crappy headphones that came with my iPhone) if I want people to hear me more clearly. It doesn't take an audiophile to hear the difference.



Personally I've used the Airpods a lot for conference calls as welland not had any major issues. The biggest benefit I found with the Airpods was that when outside in noisy environments people could still hear me which couldn't always be said for the other headsets.

Also I take your point that the bar has been set very low. After testing all the mentioned earphones the microphone was consistently the worst performing aspect. Probably due to the fact the the earphones are quite a long way away from there mouth and thus are having to pick voice out from all the background sounds. A traditional headset wont have that issue as the microphone is right next to the mouth.

Overall, not a single headset was perfect. Ideally the best headset would have the following:

Connection - Jabra/Airpods
Audio - Bose
Isolation - Sony
Video Sync - AirPods
Voice - Airpods/Jabra
Controls - Samsung
Fit - Jabra
Looks - Samsung

Incidentally Samsung had the best Ambient noise feature out of all of the them and in a quiet environment the microphone was great. Outside around traffic etc.. the microphone was awful.


----------



## nc8000

For my use the E8 is good enough. I’ve had no complaints from people the other end of phone calls (I don’t do very many phone calls though), sq is fine for on the go use, ambient works well enough, fit and isolation (with large spinfits) is good and the few gestures I use work fine and it’s nice that there are no fiddly buttons. Just wish there were no left unit drop outs, but they are short enough and far enough between to not really bother me. And the totally wireless experience on the go is truely addictive.


----------



## david8613

I am surprised the Samsung iconx 2018 rated so low, I am going to have to try these newer models.


----------



## FieldingMellish

Plantronics Voyager 5200 is my wireless choice for calls. Uncanny ambient sound cancellation. Instantaneous Bluetooth connect when switched on. I don’t walk around wearing it unless prepared in the field to call clients. I see too many retired folks wearing these all day as though they’re perpetually at the ready to receive calls.

B&O E8 I’ll begrudgingly use for a call, as when it’s incoming and it’s in my best interests to immediately answer.


----------



## picapau

nc8000 said:


> For my use the E8 is good enough. I’ve had no complaints from people the other end of phone calls (I don’t do very many phone calls though), sq is fine for on the go use, ambient works well enough, fit and isolation (with large spinfits) is good and the few gestures I use work fine and it’s nice that there are no fiddly buttons. Just wish there were no left unit drop outs, but they are short enough and far enough between to not really bother me. And the totally wireless experience on the go is truely addictive.





david8613 said:


> I am surprised the Samsung iconx 2018 rated so low, I am going to have to try these newer models.



I really liked both of these actually and would have kept either as my daily set had it not been for personal issues with them.

I make a lot of calls out and about and the E8’s microphone just wasn’t good enough for what I needed. Otherwise was pretty happy with them. 

The Samsung ICONX 2018 were very good and i think are the best looking earphones of the bunch but I just couldn’t get the right one to fit properly. Had the fit been better their score would have been better as well and even with the microphone not being great they might have been my overall favourite. They also had the best ambient noise feature. It amplifies conversations and sounds around you and feels as if you are wearing a hearing aid. I did have some issues setting it up, as it wont work out of the box with an iphone unless you sync the earbuds once using the android app. Works fine with an iPhone after that. 

I would personally try them both out yourselves. Overall there was really not much in it between any of the earphones I tested.


----------



## picapau

FieldingMellish said:


> Plantronics Voyager 5200 is my wireless choice for calls. Uncanny ambient sound cancellation. Instantaneous Bluetooth connect when switched on. I don’t walk around wearing it unless prepared in the field to call clients. I see too many retired folks wearing these all day as though they’re perpetually at the ready to receive calls..



Now, that is one proper headset for calls.


----------



## dkstott

I'm interested in the Jabra Elite 65T... The battery life is good, they're smaller than most....

The Bose are absolute junk in the real world... They have almost zero isolation, that mass sticking out your ear is not only ugly, they are monster wind noise problems.

Anyone have any "real world" review for the Jabra or others? 

Real world for me = 

#1 How is isolation while riding a bus, train, subway? 
#2 How are they while Walking / Jogging outdoors, Are they susceptible to wind noise?
#3 how is Bluetooth while outdoors or riding on public transit?


----------



## picapau

dkstott said:


> I'm interested in the Jabra Elite 65T... The battery life is good, they're smaller than most....
> 
> The Bose are absolute junk in the real world... They have almost zero isolation, that mass sticking out your ear is not only ugly, they are monster wind noise problems.
> 
> ...



#1 How is isolation while riding a bus, train, subway? 

I’m happy with the level of isolation. Like other IEM's they block out a reasonable amount of noise. On the tube I can still hear faint background sounds with music paying but I don't need to turn the volume all the way up. Not as good as proper noise cancelling headphones but then again no where near as bad as with the Bose’, which were awful. 

#2 How are they while Walking / Jogging outdoors, Are they susceptible to wind noise?

I haven't noticed any major issues with wind noise but haven't been out running in them. 

#3 how is Bluetooth while outdoors or riding on public transit?

When out and about the bluetooth connection is not as good as the AirPods and occasionally has some skips with audio breaking up due to interference but generally not so annoying that I have to stop using them.


----------



## FieldingMellish

Jabra Elite 65T: 93% recommendation across 77 reviews on Best Buy.

8.2 overall rating on Cnet

If few here have real world, those 77 reviews lends some pretty good idea of some of your concerns.


----------



## jhoff80

I went for it and picked up the Jabra 65t to try myself.  I would say there is a tiny bit of wind noise, but not too much.  The other set of Bluetooth headphones I use are the active-cancellation Bose QC30 and those have far more problems with wind noise.  It's been a while since I've had headphones that require a seal... I forgot how annoying the bone conduction can be while walking.  Otherwise, they block out a ton of noise.

The Jabra Sound+ (Android) app is annoying because it puts up a constant notification while connected, so I had to block that in the OS.  The Bluetooth connection is rock solid with my Note8 (which does support Bluetooth 5.0 if that matters at all).  I was able to walk 29 feet away from my phone before any dropouts... and I live in a city and my apartment is a torture chamber for 2.4GHz signals (seriously there's 35 wifi networks available in the room where my phone was located for this test).  Had no dropouts on a 40 minute walk yesterday, but I'll have to continue to use them to see how that goes.

Sound quality is pretty good.  I'm not as picky about that as I once was, but it sounded fine.  Not spectacular, not as good as my Bose QC30, or any of the wired headphones or headsets I've got, but it was fine.  Fit is very secure for me and very comfortable.  It did start raining on my walk home yesterday and I was wearing a hood.  I will note that the hood rubbing against the earphones also transmitted a lot of noise.  Again probably because of the seal, and just not something I'm used to recently.

Form factor-wise is perfect though.  The neckband style of my Bose ones has always annoyed me.  I suspect the active noise cancellation of those means I'll continue to use them when travelling, but I think day-to-day will probably switch to the 65t.

I think this is partly because of better headset support in preview builds of Windows 10, but the support on my PC is better than headsets in recent memory.  I know I've had to fight with the PC sometimes to get older headsets to work right but like I said I know there's been work done in Windows as well.

I do wish it could switch between which earphone is the master so that it wasn't just always the right one, but I can tolerate that.


----------



## dkstott

I also bought the Elite 65T on Saturday.... Spent most of the weekend getting acclimated to the controls and testing the Bluetooth signal.  While I haven't been a fan of silicon tips in the past; these are really comfortable.  Music quality is actually very good.  All my music on my phone is either FLAC or 320 MP3

With my LG V20 phone sitting on the couch in our house. I went down and walked all around the basement and upstairs to the 3 bedrooms and out in the backyard & never got a signal loss.

This morning, I took them with me for my daily 6 mile walk /jog. It was slightly breezy & I had no issues with wind noise while walking or jogging.  I moved the phone around to each pants pocket (front & rear) and never lost a signal.  Never felt the buds coming loose during the runs, I did occasionally get a thump sound from my shoes hitting the pavement. But nothing more than what I typically get with my wired earbuds.

Love the isolation and I really like Jabra's "hear-through" option... I can double tap the right bud and have a conversation with any passersby. The balance between the bud and "hear-through" can be adjusted via the app... You can set it so that your music is completed muted for having conversations... Which eliminates the need to take a bud out of your ear.

My walk is on public paths that are near a main road, I had no issues with traffic noise.  Double clicking to turn on the "hear-through" was awesome when I met folks to say hello, etc..

I haven't put them to the public transit test yet, but based upon this mornings excursion, I have no doubt that the isolation will be fine.

Buds were 100% charged before the 6 mile excursion... At the end of the 80 minute excursion, the app indicated 89% charge remaining on the earbuds. I have no doubt that they'll last the rated 5 hours.  Today's temperature was about 40 degrees F. While I did work up a sweat, I can't vouch for how they'll stand up to a full gym work-out.  

Phone call quality was great, I had no complaints from anyone that I called...

If I have any complaints, it is these 2 items;

#1 The settings preference for the "hear-through" isn't saved, so if you turn off the earbuds, you have to go back into the app and readjust your balance preference.

Note; It'd be awesome if you could save a few "hear-through" preference balance settings... ie.. Driving & Office?

#2 minor issue is that you can only fast forward a track, you can't go backwards.  

According to their support staff, Jabra says that they are working on both these issues

I'm sold on the Jabra Elite 65T


----------



## rhsauer (Feb 26, 2018)

dkstott said:


> I also bought the Elite 65T on Saturday.... Spent most of the weekend getting acclimated to the controls and testing the Bluetooth signal.  While I haven't been a fan of silicon tips in the past; these are really comfortable.  Music quality is actually very good.  All my music on my phone is either FLAC or 320 MP3
> 
> With my LG V20 phone sitting on the couch in our house. I went down and walked all around the basement and upstairs to the 3 bedrooms and out in the backyard & never got a signal loss.
> 
> ...



I thought you could go back a track by long pressing the volume down button.  That seems to work on mine.


----------



## rhsauer (Feb 26, 2018)

[delete -- double post]


----------



## jhoff80

One other nitpick with the 65t (though I knew this one in advance)... I really wish these accessory manufacturers would just switch over to USB-C already so that I didn't need a separate charging cable for my headphones (when USB-C works on my PC, phone, and Nintendo Switch).  I know that the IconX is on USB-C but I think they're the only one.


----------



## picapau

Update on the Jabra 65T:

After another weeks worth of use the bluetooth connection still seems pretty solid. On the tube there is a slight skipping in the connection when the doors close or the train starts moving. Doesn't happen every time though. Anyone have an idea on why this is happening?

I've now also tested them with supplied silicone tips, spinfits cp-100 and comply's wireless tips and the only issue is that with the spinfits on the earbuds dont fit into the case where as they do with the comply's. Its a bit annoying as I prefer the fit and sound from the spinfits. The supplied silicone tips do create a good seal but the medium are a bit small and the large are a bit big for me.


----------



## FieldingMellish

The unintended consequence of a small and pocketable charging case is the limitation it imposes on tip fitment. But if the IEM rocks in all other ways, one needs to adjust with the best tip that fits the case.

Beoplay E8 present a hump-like case, but part of it is the depth of the tip chamber. While I was able to get Klipsch dual flange in there, I was unable to get the MeElec triple-flange seated in the case.

Which was just as well. On the flip-side, a larger tip could wind up causing the IEM to become prominent in the ear; perhaps approaching a Bose-like projection.

As it is, people appear to notice the E8's, either for the curiosity factor, or wondering how I can stand having my ears plugged-up. Even though it's comfortable, the appearance of truly wireless has as yet to get wide acceptance. 

Then there's the PSB Speakers M4U TW1, a design that offload the bulk of it behind the ear; making hay with certain styles of eye-correcting spectacle designs.


----------



## nc8000

FieldingMellish said:


> The unintended consequence of a small and pocketable charging case is the limitation it imposes on tip fitment. But if the IEM rocks in all other ways, one needs to adjust with the best tip that fits the case.
> 
> Beoplay E8 present a hump-like case, but part of it is the depth of the tip chamber. While I was able to get Klipsch dual flange in there, I was unable to get the MeElec triple-flange seated in the case.
> 
> ...



Yes large complys dont fit in the case either


----------



## sine_wave

Wireless IEMs have a bit to go, IMO.  Between powersource, dac, and amp there is a lot of hardware to fit in such a small space while still giving us adequate room for a well engineered driver.


----------



## nealwm

I see not a lot of love for the Dash but I find mine really quite stellar other then battery life from time to time.  I pretty much just use the on board memory and not BTing to my phone or the like and get zero drop outs and plenty of volume.  I waiting on EOZs which are using BT5 so we will see (or hear)...I also am waiting on a pair of Sol-Republic Amps that got cheap on Ebay.  Any word on how they perform or hold up battery wise?


----------



## taxidrivr

stuck between Beoplay E8's or Sony WF100X - anything to take away/consider?


----------



## Tommy C

taxidrivr said:


> stuck between Beoplay E8's or Sony WF100X - anything to take away/consider?



PSB TW1
Jabra Elite Sport 
Bose SoundSport Free

I have experience with all three and I had the opportunity to demo the Sony WF1000X. 
Sony’s battery life is only 3 hrs. I actually got less than that. Sound is good, but I would take the Jebra Elite Sport over the Sony. 
There is also the new Jabra 65t that gets very good reviews.


----------



## clerkpalmer

I haven't heard the Sony's but I have heard the Beoplay.  I would take a good look at the PSBs if SQ is important to you.  Having used them interchangeably with the Bose the past month or so, I find them to be excellent.  You just have to get used to the lack of a charging case which was a nearly fatal mistake by PSB and ruins an otherwise terrific pair of TW headphones.  Sitting here at my desk now and I have to pull them out of my gym back and charge them  So annoyed.  First world problems, ha ha.


----------



## Tommy C

PSB has the best sound IMO. 
Hopefully the Ver.2 will come with charging case.   I will be all over it.


----------



## clerkpalmer

The PSB also have a very low profile when in your ears. Nothing sticks out and they disappear. It’s a good design.


----------



## Tommy C

Agreed. 
I would like to see a charging case and phone calls coming out from both sides to be a really good set of wireless IEMs.


----------



## Double C

nealwm said:


> I also am waiting on a pair of Sol-Republic Amps that got cheap on Ebay.  Any word on how they perform or hold up battery wise?



I have had a set of these for about a year now. I did not like the fidelity and I'm sad to report that even though I barely used them one of the buds stopped working after I used them for jogging in less than 1 week. Maybe you will have better luck then I.


----------



## nealwm

I got the Sol Republic Amps and have been hit and miss so far.  Getting them to pair to each other for one.  And unlike the other wireless units I have used are they supposed to show up individually in the BT pairing window?  And for no reason from time to time the audio will suddenly go out of sync causing an echo effect...happens no matter what paired source is used.  And the ear fit has much to be desired using the supplied tips.  I tried double flanged tips and settled on set of Spinfit because they give an added 2mm length into the ear.  I do not know where the shape of the IEMs came from but because it does not resemble the human ear at all the fit and sound isolation suffers greatly especially with any movement of the jaw.  The sound is pretty good volume wise once a good airtight fit is established but then you do not dare move/talk/chew or do anything mouth related (you can fill in the blank there).  I am just glad I did not shell out a great deal for them and just might do a return.  Anyone know of a anyone who does custom silicone type sleeves for IEMs?  Or inform of how to make them if one already has the hard molds (had customs made from my triple fi's)?


----------



## taxidrivr (Mar 10, 2018)

Tommy C said:


> PSB TW1
> Jabra Elite Sport
> Bose SoundSport Free
> 
> ...





Tommy C said:


> PSB has the best sound IMO.
> Hopefully the Ver.2 will come with charging case.   I will be all over it.



the PSB's seem like a good value for the $. SQ is definitely a big factor for me, planning to use paired with my iphone 6s. will the lack of AAC support be noticeable? I use apple music a lot..


----------



## karloil

also looking for a true wireless IEM...visited the shop last week and tried a few - Elite Sport, E8, SoundSport Free, Tokyo, Run and 65t. 

i just fell in love with the 65t - it has the next best open SQ (1st would be the E8) that i prefer. i like the fit and specially - the price!

too bad they were OOS - had to go back next week to get a pair!


----------



## Tommy C

taxidrivr said:


> the PSB's seem like a good value for the $. SQ is definitely a big factor for me, planning to use paired with my iphone 6s. will the lack of AAC support be noticeable? I use apple music a lot..



I can’t comment on the lack of AAC but for the money they provide the best SQ imo.


----------



## clerkpalmer

Apple Music user here. They sound terrific.


----------



## mikp

When looking for the best connection, are jabra 65t the ones to go for?

I have had the QCY T1 Pro for 1 week, and under normal use I think I have not listened through 1 song before the left earpiece drops out and reconnects. Even inside with the source on the right side it can disconnect if I move my head.

Too bad since they fit good, and the sound is not too bad. Have other qcy bluetooth products that im satisfied with.

I have tested the sony version, but it dropped connection on me, so took a 29$ gamble on the new qcy ones.


----------



## Tommy C

mikp said:


> When looking for the best connection, are jabra 65t the ones to go for?
> 
> I have had the QCY T1 Pro for 1 week, and under normal use I think I have not listened through 1 song before the left earpiece drops out and reconnects. Even inside with the source on the right side it can disconnect if I move my head.
> 
> ...



I don’t have the Jabra 65t but own the the Jabra Elite Sport and the connection is rock solid. Been using them at home in the office and out and about in a super busy city and connection never dropped once. 
PSB’s connection is solid as wel, Bose Soundsport Free is good indoors but spotty outdoors.


----------



## mikp (Mar 12, 2018)

think im giving the jabra a try. A weeks try with these poor qcy wireless makes me not wanting to go back to my "normal" bt in ear buds.

edit.
well, i tested the  65t on an hour walk in heavy snowfall. Phone inside jacket in a waterproof bag.
Counted something like 5-6 "disruptions" They never lost connection or changed volume etc.

Just a quick small glitch before continuing as normal. So they passed that test.

One small thing, the tips are not that secure on the earpiece. Got one loose in my ear.

maybe a little loctite could help


----------



## hifi80sman (Mar 12, 2018)

I've purchased & returned several (Sony WF‑1000X, Jabra Elite Sport, Bragi The Headphone, Rowkin Bit Charge, some random Chinese brands off Amazon), but ended up going with the Bose SoundSport Free.  Since I don't care about isolation, the open design is not an issue for me, but if isolation is what you're looking for, these are not it.  I personally prefer semi-open IEMs for their long-term comfort vs. those you jam in your ear and rely on a consistent seal (pressure, suction, etc.).

For Bluetooth truly wireless, these sound amazing.  I find myself grabbing these over my wired 1More Triple Driver/Quad DAC LG G6.  They are comfortable for extended wear and the charging case is top-notch.  I'm usually a bit low on Bose, but they did a great job with these.

PROS
- Excellent sound for the form factor, which I even prefer over my wired IEMs.  They measure surprisingly well https://www.rtings.com/headphones/reviews/bose/soundsport-free.
- Sounds better than the Bose SoundSport Wireless (I still own) and Bose QuietControl 30 (returned).  When comparing the measurements, to me, they illustrate the real-world differences quite accurately.
- I have no issues with signal.  I can manually disrupt the signal if I cover the right earbud with my hand, but other than that, I don't experience drop outs (using the most recent firmware update).
- Semi-open design.  This is a PRO if you like to have some level of awareness, which I also feel adds a bit to the soundstage.
- Full user control on the right earbud.

CONS
- Video delay with YouTube.  However, I do not have any appreciable delay with Amazon Video or Netflix.  Videos I shoot myself on my Apple iPhone 7 Plus also do not have any appreciable delay.
- Buttons are a bit firm and hard to press.  They seem to work out a bit over time, but it's still on the firm side.  You do, however, push down vs. inward, which does not hurt your ear canal when changing volume or tracks.


----------



## Tommy C (Mar 12, 2018)

hifi80sman said:


> I've purchased & returned several (Sony WF‑1000X, Jabra Elite Sport, Bragi The Headphone, Rowkin Bit Charge, some random Chinese brands off Amazon), but ended up going with the Bose SoundSport Free.  Since I don't care about isolation, the open design is not an issue for me, but if isolation is what you're looking for, these are not it.  I personally prefer semi-open IEMs for their long-term comfort vs. those you jam in your ear and rely on a consistent seal (pressure, suction, etc.).
> 
> For Bluetooth truly wireless, these sound amazing.  I find myself grabbing these over my wired 1More Triple Driver/Quad DAC LG G6.  They are comfortable for extended wear and the charging case is top-notch.  I'm usually a bit low on Bose, but they did a great job with these.
> 
> ...




Sound quality is good, I been having some issues with them though.
Connection is not great in busy places. I live in a city and get dropouts inside malls or just walking around, no issues indoors though.
They become unusable in noisy places, phone calls from right side only is super annoying and a poor design choice by Bose.
Video delay is definitely noticeable but personally I don’t use them for video.
I’m not a fan of their design too as they are huge compared to other Bluetooth earphones that I have been using, and wind noise is also a direct result of their side. 
Overall I think it’s a decent option but I’m having a hard time recommending them to friends and coworkers.


----------



## dkstott

I've owned the Jabra 65T for close to 3 weeks now.  Worn them during my daily 5-7 walk/ jog as well as while riding on public transportation buses.   There hasn't been a single drop off of the Bluetooth signal.

I don't miss the tether from wires during my jogs at all.

During a pretty sweaty 7 mile excursion, the left ear bud popped out and bounced around the pavement.  Wiped it off and it was still working.  Yay!!

Im still sold on the Jabra 65T!!!


----------



## FieldingMellish

Any portable fully wireless IEM is liberating, and with liberation comes all sorts of places to use the IEMs.

So that becomes a personal determining factor in what features make a difference for the buyer. Part of it is making peace with whatever could be lacking, while emphasizing the features that make it worthwhile. 

In my case, an open design is a problem, because my preferred place to listen to my fully wireless IEM is on the railroad and the subway. But in the cases of making a call, an open design supports being able to hear oneself, so that phone calls are more natural to the IEM wearer. 

What that insinuates is that perfection in fully wireless IEM could be mythical and it comes down to the subjectivity of what's acceptable to each individual.


----------



## karloil

dkstott said:


> I've owned the Jabra 65T for close to 3 weeks now.  Worn them during my daily 5-7 walk/ jog as well as while riding on public transportation buses.   There hasn't been a single drop off of the Bluetooth signal.
> 
> I don't miss the tether from wires during my jogs at all.
> 
> ...



feedback like this makes me want to own the 65t even more - i'll be getting mine in a few days


----------



## mikp (Mar 13, 2018)

karloil said:


> feedback like this makes me want to own the 65t even more - i'll be getting mine in a few days



the 65t seems very solid for me regarding connection. Tested them now for 3 hour walks combined. A few disruptions, but not lost connections or changed sound level etc. Just some quick glitches. But then I had my phone or dap inside a jacket and waterproof bag.

like the double tap on the right one when crossing roads or talking to someone.


----------



## karloil

mikp said:


> the 65t seems very solid for me regarding connection. Tested them now for 3 hour walks combined. A few disruptions, but not lost connections or changed sound level etc. Just some quick glitches. But then I had my phone or dap inside a jacket and waterproof bag.
> 
> like the double tap on the right one when crossing roads or talking to someone.



connection stability aside, i like how open its SQ is (primary reason why i choose the 65t). it doesn't feel congested as the other true wireless earbuds that i've tried.


----------



## dkstott

I really appreciate the "hear- through" option.  You can do a quick double tap on the right earbud and have a conversation without having to remove them.

Another great feature is the apps call experience. You can adjust how much of your voice you hear doing a phone call. Plus there's almost a separate equalizer for phone calls. You can boost either the bass or treble level of the call.


----------



## clerkpalmer

Any direct compare on sq  to bose or psb?


----------



## nc8000

I’m not surprised that the Jabra has all those options. The company behind Jabra has been doing headsets, telephones (remember those things with a handset and a cable to the wall) and hearing aids for decades if not centuries.


----------



## matneh

clerkpalmer said:


> Any direct compare on sq  to bose or psb?


In my opinion the Bose is much better than the Jabra.  I haven’t tried the PSB (is everyone talking about the “*M4U TW1 Earphones”?*


----------



## karloil

clerkpalmer said:


> Any direct compare on sq  to bose or psb?



i have tried both 65t and Bose SoundSport Free. SQ wise, i prefer the 65t - it has a more open staging and quite balanced across the frequency range. The Bose has a more 'darker' tone (bassy like, but not too much) - a bit congested staging. 

if you prefer SQ for the gym - to get you in that exercise mood, the Bose is a better choice. But if you will be using it for a wider range of genre - then i would recommend the 65t.


----------



## clerkpalmer

karloil said:


> i have tried both 65t and Bose SoundSport Free. SQ wise, i prefer the 65t - it has a more open staging and quite balanced across the frequency range. The Bose has a more 'darker' tone (bassy like, but not too much) - a bit congested staging.
> 
> if you prefer SQ for the gym - to get you in that exercise mood, the Bose is a better choice. But if you will be using it for a wider range of genre - then i would recommend the 65t.



Thanks.  I enjoy the colored sound signature of the Bose but I have been switching back and forth between Bose and the PSB and after listening to the PSB the Bose have a very empty almost hollow feeling.  I think it's the difference between full mids and the Bose sound signature with boosted lows and highs.  Sounds like the Jabra may hit the sweetspot in the middle.  I wish they would release the Active version already.  I sweat a ton so I'd prefer those.


----------



## Tommy C

clerkpalmer said:


> Thanks.  I enjoy the colored sound signature of the Bose but I have been switching back and forth between Bose and the PSB and after listening to the PSB the Bose have a very empty almost hollow feeling.  I think it's the difference between full mids and the Bose sound signature with boosted lows and highs.  Sounds like the Jabra may hit the sweetspot in the middle.  I wish they would release the Active version already.  I sweat a ton so I'd prefer those.



Empty or hollow feeling is a spot-on description when it comes to the Bose IMO.
The sq is overall pretty good but the V shape signature leaves much to be desired.
I haven’t found the perfect true wireless earphones, each has some pros and cons.


----------



## hifi80sman

Tommy C said:


> Sound quality is good, I been having some issues with them though.
> Connection is not great in busy places. I live in a city and get dropouts inside malls or just walking around, no issues indoors though.
> They become unusable in noisy places, phone calls from right side only is super annoying and a poor design choice by Bose.
> Video delay is definitely noticeable but personally I don’t use them for video.
> ...


They definitely fit a niche category and are not a one-size-fits-all solution.  I primarily use them at home and the gym, but since I don't have a traditional commute, the lack of noise isolation is a non-issue for me.  I do like to have some level of awareness at the gym, so the semi-open design meets my needs there.  This is also helpful in an office environment, where people feel the need to "visit" and talk to me randomly.

I haven't experienced many drop outs at all, but I'm not in any busy, WI-FI heavy environments, so take that for what it's worth.

For me sound and comfort win out, but if I were a commuter, the Jabra 65t sound like the way to go.


----------



## karloil

Woohhooo!!! Just got my 65t! Time to head home quickly so that i can start playing with this baby!


----------



## david8613

Currently running samsung iconx 2018, jabra elite sport and Sony wf1000x, I have some money to burn anything new coming out? I wonder when Plantronics is gonna come out with some true wireless. 

Also I can never get a solid seal with my jabra elite sports the stems seem short compared to my sonys and samsungs. Is there any tips to get a better seal?


----------



## Tommy C

david8613 said:


> Currently running samsung iconx 2018, jabra elite sport and Sony wf1000x, I have some money to burn anything new coming out? I wonder when Plantronics is gonna come out with some true wireless.
> 
> Also I can never get a solid seal with my jabra elite sports the stems seem short compared to my sonys and samsungs. Is there any tips to get a better seal?



I use 3rd party tips with the Jabra Elite Sport. I couldn’t get a perfect fit with the stock tips.
Also, I ordered another pair or Jabra Elite Sport for a coworker and had to return.
They sounded very bassy and muddy when I was doing some a/b comparison, pretty strange and immediately @clerkpalmer’s impression on the Elife Sport came to mind. The other set of Jabra Elite Sport that I use as a daily driver sounds very balanced, clear with good bass but definitely not overwhelming.


----------



## clerkpalmer

The more I use the PSB the more I like them. I started favoring them over the Bose most of the time. I know they aren't sexy but they are beyond solid. They deserve some love.


----------



## Tommy C

clerkpalmer said:


> The more I use the PSB the more I like them. I started favoring them over the Bose most of the time. I know they aren't sexy but they are beyond solid. They deserve some love.



Sound quality is probably the best out of all the true wireless earphones. I also like the fit. It’s super comfy and easy on the ears and very secure.


----------



## clerkpalmer

Agree. And sq is beyond reproach. Tiny bit of distortion on the highs if I'm being picky. Very warm and full sounding. Believe it or not they compare favorably to my wireless aventhos.


----------



## tonehk

david8613 said:


> Also I can never get a solid seal with my jabra elite sports the stems seem short compared to my sonys and samsungs. Is there any tips to get a better seal?



i have similar problem. i then tried spinfits and jvc spiral dots. both give much better seal. unfortunately, if you use anything other than the jabra tips, they dont fit in the charging box. so i returned to using the jabra tips (largest ones). with a bit of twisting fitting, i can get about 90% of what spinfits/jvc gives. unfortunate that they cant just make the opening slot to place the ear piece units just slightly larger so it fits.


----------



## Tommy C

tonehk said:


> i have similar problem. i then tried spinfits and jvc spiral dots. both give much better seal. unfortunately, if you use anything other than the jabra tips, they dont fit in the charging box. so i returned to using the jabra tips (largest ones). with a bit of twisting fitting, i can get about 90% of what spinfits/jvc gives. unfortunate that they cant just make the opening slot to place the ear piece units just slightly larger so it fits.



Sounds familiar. Luckily I have found tips in my drawer that fit perfectly. I like the Jabra as a daily driver. Sound quality is good on the go and the connection is rock solid. 
I’m curious about the Jabra 65t and may pick those up when they become available.


----------



## FieldingMellish

The convenience of a smaller charging case comes at the inconvenience of preventing a personal favorite tip from fitting. 

Beoplay E8’s hump-like case is not the smallest, but it has sufficiently deep wells for mounted tips in multiple makes and sizes.


----------



## karloil

So satisfied with the 65t


----------



## nc8000

FieldingMellish said:


> The convenience of a smaller charging case comes at the inconvenience of preventing a personal favorite tip from fitting.
> 
> Beoplay E8’s hump-like case is not the smallest, but it has sufficiently deep wells for mounted tips in multiple makes and sizes.



Yep but still not big enough for large complys


----------



## david8613

I found some spare silicon tips that seem to give me a better seal, wow I have to admit they sound pretty good, clear, powerful, loud. they sound a tad better than my iconx 2018. how do the Jabra 65t sound compared to the Jabra sport elite?


----------



## Tommy C

david8613 said:


> I found some spare silicon tips that seem to give me a better seal, wow I have to admit they sound pretty good, clear, powerful, loud. they sound a tad better than my iconx 2018. how do the Jabra 65t sound compared to the Jabra sport elite?



Agreed. I was underwhelmed out of the box but with the tips that I have in hand they are very solid with wide soundstage; not necessarily open wide, but instrument placement is great. Try playing some jazz music, works really well.


----------



## karloil

david8613 said:


> how do the Jabra 65t sound compared to the Jabra sport elite?



65t has a more 'flat/balanced' signature. While the Elite Sport has a more 'V' shaped signature.


----------



## FieldingMellish

I checked out Jabra Elite 65T on Amazon US and so far only 1 review. But it's got an Amazon's Choice badge. At the same time, the search turned up a wealth of true wireless contenders. 

What aroused my curiosity is the Lightsky, under $60.00! titled thus: Wireless Earbuds Bluetooth Wireless Earphones with 800mAh Charging Box Mini Twins Stereo Wireless Headphones for Iphone and Android Phones Bluetooth Headphones with Built-in Mic.

... Out of 206 customer reviews, the Lightsky offering earned a whopping 76% worth of 5-stars reviews.


----------



## mikp

I would not buy soem generic tws earphone again.. I trusted qcy sine those bt earphones I have are actually good. The new qcy t1 pro is not good, constant disconnection. Only good thing is I got it for 29$.

fakespot meta


----------



## FieldingMellish

Not for anything, but I bought a low-name semi-wireless IEM November of last year for $30.00 and its sound made me think twice about keeping the Beoplay E8 that came after it in December. (Not to throw shade on the Beoplay ...)  ;— D  (it's all in the minor details, folks!)

The November purchase was ENACFIRE aptX Stereo Sound Wireless Headphones for Sports with 8H Playtime. What drew me to it was being unaware of true wireless at the time, in conjunction with it having a 71% 5 star review across over 140 reviews.

I'd listen to it anytime, it was that decent. Although I offered it to my wife, who's still using wired Earpods going into an ipod for workouts. (Tough to break old habits)


----------



## mikp

I think its the true wireless that is the issue, bad connection to the other piece. I did complain to joybuy and got a 15$ coupon. So now looking afor an affordable wired type.


----------



## david8613

I wonder if and when plantronics and Logitech are gonna jump in the truewireless arena. They always made great head phones with great features, remember the logitec ue 9000 and the plantronics backbeat pros, I still use the pros.

https://www.amazon.com/Logitech-UE-9000-Wireless-Headphones/dp/B0094S37GS

https://www.plantronics.com/us/en/product/backbeat-pro-plus


----------



## Tommy C

david8613 said:


> I wonder if and when plantronics and Logitech are gonna jump in the truewireless arena. They always made great head phones with great features, remember the logitec ue 9000 and the plantronics backbeat pros, I still use the pros.
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/Logitech-UE-9000-Wireless-Headphones/dp/B0094S37GS
> 
> https://www.plantronics.com/us/en/product/backbeat-pro-plus



Didn’t Logitech pulled out completely of the headphones/ earphones business? 

The purchased Jaybird a couple of years ago, this covers the wireless arena.  

Their service on the other hand has been brutal. Ultimate Ears Pro though has top notch service.


----------



## david8613 (Mar 19, 2018)

Can u imagine an ultimate ears true wireless! Plantronics gotta have something in the works, since they are taking so long, it' gotta be something great!

Things I want:
6 hours battery
usb c with fast charging
On board memory like iconx
At least 4 or more charges from cradle like apple ipods
Water proof like jabra, iconx
Solid bluetooth connection like iconx, jams, apple
Touch sensitive controls, that include volume controls, not just pause, skip, answer calls. Like iconx, and I believe b&o e8 not sure.
Fitness app like jabra and iconx
Great sound quality with a fun sound signature for gym use. Haven't found one that I absolutley love the sound yet
 And lastly a nice app with a nice eq like jaybirds

My Samsung's cover alot here, especially the controls they are so good. I just wish they sounded a little better, they don't Sound bad at all, but I think my Sony and jabra have a sound signature that I like better.


----------



## Tommy C

david8613 said:


> Can u imagine an ultimate ears true wireless! Plantronics gotta have something in the works, since they are taking so long, it' gotta be something great!
> 
> Things I want:
> 6 hours battery
> ...




The future is going to be all wireless including CIEM once companies figure out how to overcome the technical barriers.
I honestly don’t know much about Platronics, I had their headset Bluetooth at work for a few years and that’s about it.
Possibly brands like Jabra and Platronics can sell their Bluetooth modules to other brands since their connectivity is excellent and in general very reliable.


----------



## Tommy C (Mar 18, 2018)

Rebranded PSB TW1, knockoff? @clerkpalmer? Anyone?
These look identical to the PSB TW1. 



http://www.avantree.com/truly-wireless-earphones-avantree.html


----------



## david8613

how does the Jabra 65t sound compare to the Jabra elite sport? please give details.


----------



## hifi80sman

david8613 said:


> Currently running samsung iconx 2018, jabra elite sport and Sony wf1000x, I have some money to burn anything new coming out? I wonder when Plantronics is gonna come out with some true wireless.
> 
> Also I can never get a solid seal with my jabra elite sports the stems seem short compared to my sonys and samsungs. Is there any tips to get a better seal?


I have the same issue with the Jabra Elite Sport.  I've tried different tips, and there are a few that work better, but overall, it's still short.  Mine have been just sitting and collecting dist, unfortunately.  I wonder if the 65t suffers from the same short stem.  I've tried a few other Jabra products and always seem to have fit issues.  I've also tried the Jabra Elite 25e and even the largest ear tips are too small.  I have a lot of experience with Sony, which tends to fit me well, and I'd say I'm M to L ear tips, depending on the design.  The hear in 2 (WI-H700), I'm M ear tips, but on the MDR-XB50BS, I'm L.  Mostly, it has to do with if they are going deeper in my ear and will rest in there, or if they will be a bit on the outer edge of the canal and secured by fins.

For me, the WF-1000X is attractive because I know the fit is going to be solid (I've tested them, but haven't listened to them at length), so for an isolating solution, those are at the top of my list.  I like the Bose SoundSport Free, but I ended up returning them.  Even though they sounded a little better than my SoundSport Wireless, I still felt I was duplicating what I already have for $200, given I have no real issues with the SoundSport Wireless' comfort or performance (as a semi-open solution).


----------



## david8613 (Mar 20, 2018)

I went to Best buy last week to check out the jabra elite 65t but they were completely sold out. I went in today and none on shelf, boooo!!! but the sales guy found one for me in the back from a fresh shipment, yippie!

All I have to say is...... WOW! Really nice job jabra. Right off the bat these sound great! Lots of separation between instruments, lots of air, very open, very good bass, loud and very clear. Another thing i like is they felt very light on ears, they feel alot like my sony wf1000x in that regard.

They fit my ear fine but I had to twist them a little more than others to find the right angle to get a good seal. They have all the controls i want including the all important volume buttons but i still wish they would have used touch sensitive controls like samsung, physical buttons just cause u to jam the buds deeper in your ear canal and sometimes doing this removes a good seal causing you to adjust again and this will cause fatigue overtime.  At least the buttons are softer than the jabra elite sport. The charging case is really cute, very small, nice shape, feels good in hands and she has multiple charges in her, nice. Even the little leds on the case light up nicely with a breathing effect when charging. I have not played with app or the ambient sound stuff yet but I will soon. I wonder how much more weight the jabra elite 65t sport version will have versus this one and if the extra features will drain battery any faster. Anyway this is a great true wireless in ear, it might be the best yet.


----------



## Tommy C (Mar 20, 2018)

I’m very interested.  Jabra 65t vs Elite sport vs Bose Soundsport Free comparison will be ideal if anyone has all three.

I’m fairly satisfied with the Elite Soort and I like the sport app and the heart rate monitor.

A few reviews mention some connectivity blips with the 65t which I was surprise to see since the Jabra Elite Sport has bulletproof connection based on my personal experience.

More impressions will be great.
Seems like Jabra has come up with a very solid product.


----------



## tonehk (Mar 20, 2018)

I have Elite sport and soundsport free. Also tried 65t.

For best comfort, but with sound leakage, best battery life take bose. I use this during jogging, where a little sound leakage is acceptable.

Elite sport is not as comfortable, but has decent isolation.  The earpiece stems are very short, so there may be fit issues. I use this in the gym.  If I use bose at the gym, the sound leakage is unacceptable.

I tried 65t briefly.  It is not so different from elite sport. Build quality is not as good but has better battery life, and slightly slim down. It still has short stem so potential fit/seal issues may still exist like the elite sport. The audio quality is close to elite sport.

Bose and elite sport connectivity both quite good for my use case. There are brief disconnections and dropouts, but not so bad.  Did not test 65t for connectivity.  Audio quality probably bose the best, but I think they are all very good for active usage.


----------



## Tommy C

tonehk said:


> I have Elite sport and soundsport free. Also tried 65t.
> 
> For best comfort, but with sound leakage, best battery life take bose. I use this during jogging, where a little sound leakage is acceptable.
> 
> ...



That’s awesome, thanks for the info.
I have the Jabra Elite Sport, Bose Soundsport Free had the PSB TW1.
Luckily I was able to find a good fit with aftermarket ear tips for the Elite Sport.
Bose has a nice sound but the design lets so much noise in that’s it’s ridiculous.
I live in a very busy city and 90% of the time I reach out to the Jabra Elite Sport for that reason.
Another thing that bothers me with Soundsport Free is phone calls. The mic isn’t that good outdoors and the voice coming from the right side is frustrating.

Was wondering if the 65t has better sound quality than the Elite Sport.
I had 2 pairs of Elite Sport, one of them sounded muffled and bassy while the other one is nice, balanced and crisp with good bass.

The PSB, IMHO has the best sound quality though.


----------



## taxidrivr

Tommy C said:


> That’s awesome, thanks for the info.
> I have the Jabra Elite Sport, Bose Soundsport Free had the PSB TW1.
> Luckily I was able to find a good fit with aftermarket ear tips for the Elite Sport.
> Bose has a nice sound but the design lets so much noise in that’s it’s ridiculous.
> ...



what don't you like about the PSB's?


----------



## Tommy C

taxidrivr said:


> what don't you like about the PSB's?



I love the sound and the fit is excellent, however the lack of charging case is disappointing. The deal breaker for me is voice coming from one side only during phone calls.


----------



## tonehk

Tommy C said:


> That’s awesome, thanks for the info.
> I have the Jabra Elite Sport, Bose Soundsport Free had the PSB TW1.
> Luckily I was able to find a good fit with aftermarket ear tips for the Elite Sport.
> Bose has a nice sound but the design lets so much noise in that’s it’s ridiculous.
> ...



I only had a brief couple of minutes with the 65t.  I thought it was slightly better than elite sport – with slightly better clarity and less bass but difference was not great. If you already have elite sport I don’t think its worth the upgrade just for that reason alone.
You mentioned that you tried other ear tips for the elite sport.  Which ones did you use? I generally use medium size but use the largest with the stock silicon.  When I tried some other brands (spiral dots, spinfits) and have them attached to the ear pieces, they would not fit in the case. So even though they give better seal they were no good. I only use silicon not foam.


----------



## david8613 (Mar 21, 2018)

*ATTENTION
I DID NOT SEE THIS ANYWHERE IN THE INSTRUCTIONS, MAKE SURE WHEN YOU OPEN THE CASE OF YOUR JABRA ELITE 65T YOU SQUEEZE THE SIDES OF THE CASE WITH YOUR POINTER FINGER AND THUMB TO HELP RELEASE LID WITH YOUR FINGERNAIL, IT MAKES IT MUCH EASIER TO OPEN, DO NOT JUST FORCE IT OPEN WITH YOUR FINGER NAIL.  I THINK THIS PART COULD WEAR OUT OVER TIME FORCING IT OPEN AGAIN AND AGAIN.*


The sound signature of the Jabra elite sport and Jabra elite 65t are different. Jabra elite sport is more powerful and hard hitting, stronger bass I think. The Jabra elite 65t still have lots of bass but not has hard hitting, it has more composer and finesse but still very nice. the sound is very open and lots of separation compared to my other headphones, my Sony wf1000x sound similar in this department. these do get very loud no issues there. the 65t build is much lighter than the heavy duty build of Jabra elite sport. the 65t fit is looser and doesn't go in your canal as deep as the sport elite but they don't fall out either where the elite sport goes deep and the fins lock you in. the features on the 65t are very nice in the app, one feature lets you choose to auto pause the music when you remove ear buds or not, this is nice because I am burning them in some and checking battery life so I let them play non stop. you also have a full eq that works, nice. If I have one little niggle about this set is they are a little hard to grab and they are very slippery coming out of the case and a little weird to put back in the case, they don't just fall in place like others buds I have, you have to play with it to get them in correctly, with practice it should get easier. maybe a little texture or rubberized finish would help here. I haven't tried out any calls yet that's nextmy list. one weird thing happened this morning I was listening to them extensively last night and this morning they would not connect or pair with my phone, I had to redo the whole blue tooth pairing process again. Another little thing I wish it was all black, I like the stealth look...


----------



## karloil

david8613 said:


> *ATTENTION
> I DID NOT SEE THIS ANYWHERE IN THE INSTRUCTIONS, MAKE SURE WHEN YOU OPEN THE CASE OF YOUR JABRA ELITE 65T YOU SQUEEZE THE SIDES OF THE CASE WITH YOUR POINTER FINGER AND THUMB TO HELP RELEASE LID WITH YOUR FINGERNAIL, IT MAKES IT MUCH EASIER TO OPEN, DO NOT JUST FORCE IT OPEN WITH YOUR FINGER NAIL.  I THINK THIS PART COULD WEAR OUT OVER TIME FORCING IT OPEN AGAIN AND AGAIN.*



before i purchased the 65t, i watched a few video reviews - the reviewers do mention this.


----------



## Tommy C

tonehk said:


> I only had a brief couple of minutes with the 65t.  I thought it was slightly better than elite sport – with slightly better clarity and less bass but difference was not great. If you already have elite sport I don’t think its worth the upgrade just for that reason alone.
> You mentioned that you tried other ear tips for the elite sport.  Which ones did you use? I generally use medium size but use the largest with the stock silicon.  When I tried some other brands (spiral dots, spinfits) and have them attached to the ear pieces, they would not fit in the case. So even though they give better seal they were no good. I only use silicon not foam.



I normally use medium size tips, the problem for me with the tips that come with the Jabra Elite Sport is that they are too thin, so while the large tips provide acceptable seal it’s far from being ideal.
I currently use small size tips that came with Mee Audio IEMs.
They have a very soft yet beefy stem that provides excellent fit for me without being uncomfortable.
I usually prefer IEMs that go deeper but I have no fit issues with the Elite Sport.
They are very sensitive to tips and proper tip is crucial more than any other IEMs that I have had over the years.


----------



## david8613 (Mar 22, 2018)

I am starting to look at more after market tips. I brought the new comply tips made specifically for true wireless buds and they look way too small to me, I use large tips but they only come in a standard size. anyone knows if comply will take them back if I try them and they don't fit?
I am also looking at other tips like spinfit and spiral dot tips they get good reviews, any other tips I should look at?

now back to the Jabra 65t, pretty great so far, but some small things to note 1) when I hit the pause button its very slow to pause feels like a second or two, my other head sets are much quicker almost instantaneously. 2) something  happen today I dropped my charging case on my kitchen table from about chest height and everything just opened and flew out in different directions! so be very careful dropping the case in a bad area like near a sewer drain or you will lose your ear buds. now to the good stuff, battery seems like it lasts for ever, I don't know why but it feels like they last longer than my Samsung iconx 2018, and they also seem like they charge a lot faster than my iconx 2018, not sure because I did not time it.


----------



## matneh

Returned my Jabra 65t's today.

Good points:

When you get the isolation right they are a very closed solution and have good sound quality.
Bad points:

Even with the large tips I couldn't get that isolation because the stems are too short for my ears.  None of my aftermarket tips would fit.
I think the pressure in my right ear was too much when I was trying them out because my ear started "popping" for about 1.5 weeks after using them for a couple days.
The left earbud somehow lost all its charge even though it was in the case, and after I charged them back up, there was static in the left bud like the driver had fizzled out
Someone mentioned before that the "dealbreaker" for them is when only 1 bud is used for phone calls.  That seems to be true for all truly wireless buds except for the Airpods, I think due to the Left/Right delay issue that only Apple has figured out.  Which of the truly wireless buds actually enable both ears for phone calls?


----------



## Tommy C

matneh said:


> Someone mentioned before that the "dealbreaker" for them is when only 1 bud is used for phone calls.  That seems to be true for all truly wireless buds except for the Airpods, I think due to the Left/Right delay issue that only Apple has figured out.  Which of the truly wireless buds actually enable both ears for phone calls?



That was me  
So the 65t has voice coming from the right side only?? 
I use the Jabra Elite Sport and voice is coming in from both sides or I can use the right bud only and the left one shuts off.


----------



## nc8000

I get sound both sides in phone calls with the Beoplay E8 or use the right bud on it’s own


----------



## david8613 (Mar 22, 2018)

The headsets I own that do stereo output on calls are:
Samsung gear iconx 2018
Jabra elite sport
Jabra elite 65t
The headsets that I own that do not do stereo output on calls:
Sony wf1000x
jams ultra

I wanted to add, some reviewers said they would not recommend the Jabra 65t for gym use because of the ip55 rating and to wait for the Jabra elite 65t active having ip56 rating. but looking at this ip rating page I think the Jabra 65t would be fine, what do you think?

https://blog.jabra.com/waterproof-or-water-resistant-whats-behind-an-ip-rating/


----------



## defbear

I have the Bose Soundsport Free. I was not upset by the phone calls only in one ear. When I use my hands-free Bluetooth earpiece, it’s only in one ear. When I use the iPhone, it’s only in one ear. When I use the telephone headset, it’s only in one ear. But gee Bose, why couldn’t have you put the phone calls in the Left ear instead of the Right ;->


----------



## david8613

I just found a really cool reviewer called rtings.com they use special sound measuring equipment, and show very detailed graphs. the results are still very interesting, check it out.

this HTML class. Value is 

Moderator I'm not sure if I posted link correctly, please fix if I didn't thanks.


----------



## david8613 (Mar 23, 2018)

Here is the regular link, it is a good website, very informative, they really get into the details I like that! go to the review section to see more.

https://www.rtings.com/headphones/reviews/samsung/gear-iconx


----------



## dylansmith

I saw quite a number of China branded, full-wireless IEMs going for <$50 with good reviews. just wondering if anyone here has tested any chinese models and care to share how it compares to the major brands (like sony/beoplay etc)?


----------



## antsin3d

I got a pair of the Jabra 65Ts today, but unfortunately the left ear piece constantly cuts in/out. Sometimes if I position it right and keep my head very still facing forward it's fine, but as soon as I look to my right or move much it'll cut out. Not sure if it's defective or if my head's full of magnets. Otherwise it seems pretty good. The pass-through sound creates an audible hiss at high volumes and they do create some ear pressure, but overall quite nice beyond the connection issues. Deciding whether to exchange them or go with something like the Beoplay.


----------



## Tommy C (Mar 24, 2018)

dylansmith said:


> I saw quite a number of China branded, full-wireless IEMs going for <$50 with good reviews. just wondering if anyone here has tested any chinese models and care to share how it compares to the major brands (like sony/beoplay etc)?



IMHO I won’t go with Chinese true wireless IEMs. Too many things can go wrong and if the connection is not reliable it’s frustrating.
Factory refurbished Jabra Elite Sport is going for $109 on Amazon - awesome deal for a very good item with a rock solid connection. I know it’s more than double that what you wanted to spend but it’s well worth it.

There is also these: they look like like rebranded PSB TW1 which is really odd.  
Reviews are good too :
http://www.avantree.com/truly-wireless-earphones-avantree.html


----------



## Tommy C

antsin3d said:


> I got a pair of the Jabra 65Ts today, but unfortunately the left ear piece constantly cuts in/out. Sometimes if I position it right and keep my head very still facing forward it's fine, but as soon as I look to my right or move much it'll cut out. Not sure if it's defective or if my head's full of magnets. Otherwise it seems pretty good. The pass-through sound creates an audible hiss at high volumes and they do create some ear pressure, but overall quite nice beyond the connection issues. Deciding whether to exchange them or go with something like the Beoplay.



They are most likely defective, with that being said I have a feeling based on review and feed that thr connectivity of the Jabra Elite Sport is more stable. 
I would do an exchange if I were you. 
The Beoplay are not perfec and according to a coworker they have somethings super annoying - the sound and especially vocals are louder on the left side. 
He had tested 3 different pairs, all of them had this issue.


----------



## david8613 (Mar 24, 2018)

antsin3d said:


> I got a pair of the Jabra 65Ts today, but unfortunately the left ear piece constantly cuts in/out. Sometimes if I position it right and keep my head very still facing forward it's fine, but as soon as I look to my right or move much it'll cut out. Not sure if it's defective or if my head's full of magnets. Otherwise it seems pretty good. The pass-through sound creates an audible hiss at high volumes and they do create some ear pressure, but overall quite nice beyond the connection issues. Deciding whether to exchange them or go with something like the Beoplay.



Hi, I would exchange them, I think you got a faulty set of the 65t. My 65t have been rock solid, I have been running them hard in all the different environents I can think of, im trying my best to make them flinch, no problems with connection, they sound great to boot, It Really is a good all rounder true wireless. I also have the jabra elite sport and they also have great connection and sound.

If you want cheap simple with great connection truewireless go with jams ultra, sound wise they are heavy on the bass, but the connection is the best I have heard and I have seen them in best buy around 79.00


----------



## antsin3d

Thanks for the replies! I'll try an exchange first and see if it fixes the issue. Someone on Amazon was saying these both connect to the phone, but that doesn't seem right? I'd think it would show up as two devices if that were the case.


----------



## clerkpalmer

Tommy C said:


> Rebranded PSB TW1, knockoff? @clerkpalmer? Anyone?
> These look identical to the PSB TW1.
> 
> 
> ...




What. Really surprised a company like psb would do this. Maybe the tw1 isn't selling well?  These are exactly the same minus 90.


----------



## Tommy C

clerkpalmer said:


> What. Really surprised a company like psb would do this. Maybe the tw1 isn't selling well?  These are exactly the same minus 90.



I know right.  I’m really surprised and never seen this from PSB in the past. 
All their products are original and their own design as they claim.   
Could it be a knock off?


----------



## antsin3d

I got a second pair from the same place (Best Buy) and it has the same issue, albeit with maybe a 10% improvement. I had my wife try them since her head is about an inch narrower and she had fewer complaints but said it was annoying just the same. Those who have functional pairs, where did you procure them? Thanks!


----------



## david8613

I got mine from best buy here in Secaucus new jersey. What phone are you using I'm running a Samsung note 8 with nougat. Waiting for Oreo to be released supposed be able to do better bluetooth codecs.


----------



## Tommy C

antsin3d said:


> I got a second pair from the same place (Best Buy) and it has the same issue, albeit with maybe a 10% improvement. I had my wife try them since her head is about an inch narrower and she had fewer complaints but said it was annoying just the same. Those who have functional pairs, where did you procure them? Thanks!



I’m really surprised. The Jabra Elite Sport has a superb connection. I had one dropout in 6 weeks when I was walking through a metal detector. Other than that - zero issues.
Possibly a bluetooth issue with your phone?


----------



## antsin3d

david8613 said:


> I got mine from best buy here in Secaucus new jersey. What phone are you using I'm running a Samsung note 8 with nougat. Waiting for Oreo to be released supposed be able to do better bluetooth codecs.



I'm on an iPhone8 - I tried my wife's iPhone 6+ but it did exactly the same thing. I think I'll try the Sport instead, maybe I'll have better luck. I do think it's just bad luck though. Perhaps this batch has an issue. Stinks!


----------



## taxidrivr

clerkpalmer said:


> What. Really surprised a company like psb would do this. Maybe the tw1 isn't selling well?  These are exactly the same minus 90.



is there any way to tell if its really the same set?


----------



## Tommy C

antsin3d said:


> I'm on an iPhone8 - I tried my wife's iPhone 6+ but it did exactly the same thing. I think I'll try the Sport instead, maybe I'll have better luck. I do think it's just bad luck though. Perhaps this batch has an issue. Stinks!



I’m very happy with the Sport as a total package. Rock solid connection, good fit (as long as you follow the instructions and don’t twist and insert too deep), heart rate monitor, good sport app, good battery. I get a total of approx. 15 hrs with the charging case. Overall I’m pretty happy with Sport.


----------



## Tommy C (Mar 25, 2018)

I have found one issue with my Sport though, it’s minor but worth mentioning; the charging case has 3 leds, green - fully charged, yellow, and red.
My other pair would go green, then yellow around 60% and then red around 20%.
This one goes green until 10% and then yellow and that’s it. Even when empty it never changes to red, only when plugged in and charging.
Overall I’m getting approx 15-16 from the IEMs and charging case together so it’s not a showstopper. I will contact Jabra next week to see what can be done.


----------



## clerkpalmer

taxidrivr said:


> is there any way to tell if its really the same set?


Good question. It's possible for example that PSB licensed out the physical parts but maybe these use different drivers. So they might look the same and use the same bt parts they could sound different. I would think an email to PSB would get you an answer.


----------



## david8613

You should try and use the jabra 65t on an android phone just to see if it still malfunctions.


----------



## Immixx (Mar 28, 2018)

antsin3d said:


> I got a second pair from the same place (Best Buy) and it has the same issue, albeit with maybe a 10% improvement. I had my wife try them since her head is about an inch narrower and she had fewer complaints but said it was annoying just the same. Those who have functional pairs, where did you procure them? Thanks!



I have had my 65t for exactly a month now. I have travelled extensively throughout this past month and have used the 65t in airplanes (10 times), railways (1 time), subway / metro (multiple times), cars (during long distance drives), 2 different gyms, home, and office. I have noticed that the connection is perfect everywhere except in the following places:

In my office cubicle, which is right in the middle of the building on ground floor and is infested with 12 different wifi routers and 2 different cordless phones sitting next to me. Here my left earbud keeps disconnecting no matter what position my head is in. No issue for me as I don't wear it while I am in my office.
In the subway (metro) but ONLY when it is running underground AND I am sitting next to the window, the left earbud keeps dropping connection and I have to tilt my head in multiple directions to figure out in which position the connection remains. While underground and when I am sitting in the aisle seat or standing in the aisle, the left earbud only occasionally drops connection (once in a minute or so). When the metro is running above ground, the connection remains rock solid. I now don't sit next to the window.
Once during a flight, when I was sitting in the exit row, next to the window, I noticed that the left earbud started dropping connection for a brief period of 10-15 minutes. No idea why. Maybe a lot of people around me started using their bluetooth earphones around that time. This has only happened once and that too for a very short period of time in the last 10 times that I have been airborne.
I replaced my UE Super.Fi 5 Pro that served me for over 10 years with the Bose Soundsport Free before settling for the Jabra 65t. And although the Bose SSF had much superior sound quality compared to the 65t, that sucker was dropping connection left, right, and center to the point that it was completely unusable. I tried 2 different sets of Bose without any luck. Jabra 65t on the other hand has been completely trouble free 99% of the time and I have now learned to live with its slightly muddied sound quality.

Edit: Forgot to mention that the supplier silicon tips are not very good. With the UE, I was using the medium size tips and I could get a good seal with ease every time. With the 65t, the medium tips are too small and even the big size tips don't go deep enough, and therefore it's hard to get a good seal. I tried using the tips that came with my UE Super.fi5 Pro and a few others sourced locally (haven't tried comply yet), and while the fit gets sorted out I have noticed the following:


the stem of the eartip does not lock very well with the earbuds and therefore sometimes the tip detaches from the earbud and remains inside my ear while taking the earbud out of my ear
the case does not close because the eartips are deeper/longer than the stock tips


----------



## david8613 (Mar 26, 2018)

im running my sony wf1000x and noticed im only getting about 2 hours, is that normal I thought I was supposed to be 3 hours run time? its too bad because they sound so good.


----------



## rhsauer

david8613 said:


> *ATTENTION
> I DID NOT SEE THIS ANYWHERE IN THE INSTRUCTIONS, MAKE SURE WHEN YOU OPEN THE CASE OF YOUR JABRA ELITE 65T YOU SQUEEZE THE SIDES OF THE CASE WITH YOUR POINTER FINGER AND THUMB TO HELP RELEASE LID WITH YOUR FINGERNAIL, IT MAKES IT MUCH EASIER TO OPEN, DO NOT JUST FORCE IT OPEN WITH YOUR FINGER NAIL.  I THINK THIS PART COULD WEAR OUT OVER TIME FORCING IT OPEN AGAIN AND AGAIN.*
> 
> 
> The sound signature of the Jabra elite sport and Jabra elite 65t are different. Jabra elite sport is more powerful and hard hitting, stronger bass I think. The Jabra elite 65t still have lots of bass but not has hard hitting, it has more composer and finesse but still very nice. the sound is very open and lots of separation compared to my other headphones, my Sony wf1000x sound similar in this department. these do get very loud no issues there. the 65t build is much lighter than the heavy duty build of Jabra elite sport. the 65t fit is looser and doesn't go in your canal as deep as the sport elite but they don't fall out either where the elite sport goes deep and the fins lock you in. the features on the 65t are very nice in the app, one feature lets you choose to auto pause the music when you remove ear buds or not, this is nice because I am burning them in some and checking battery life so I let them play non stop. you also have a full eq that works, nice. If I have one little niggle about this set is they are a little hard to grab and they are very slippery coming out of the case and a little weird to put back in the case, they don't just fall in place like others buds I have, you have to play with it to get them in correctly, with practice it should get easier. maybe a little texture or rubberized finish would help here. I haven't tried out any calls yet that's nextmy list. one weird thing happened this morning I was listening to them extensively last night and this morning they would not connect or pair with my phone, I had to redo the whole blue tooth pairing process again. Another little thing I wish it was all black, I like the stealth look...



If you just press in slightly with your thumb after inserting your fingernail, the top opens easily.  I find that slightly easier and more effective than squeezing the sides.


----------



## Whitigir (Mar 27, 2018)

Wireless still has a long way to go.  In order to make something wireless, we need

1/ a DAC that is of high quality and dedicated with the lowest noises possible
2/ amplification sections that is powerful enough, driven efficiently so battery is not an issue
3/ Battery safety and storage compartment
4/ Ventilation to minimizes resonances, and sound tunning
5/ DSP
We can take away the #5 if they buy into the mainstream features such as LdAC or AptX-HD....etc....Even at desktop category, DAC and Amplifiers are both having a hard time to meet all the requirement to be dedicated and high-end without costing and arm and legs.  Therefore, to minimizes it and cramped it into everything for wireless...,it would be horribly expensive, and even so, we are still not there yet.

The only technology that is getting so close is Direct Digital Drive , which Audio Technica has released 2 Bluetooth over the ears headphones (9Bt and 7BT).  It essentially combined DAC+Amplifications+Drivers into a 1 package.  There is no conventional DAC or Amp system in itself.  This technology will be the Limit breaking technology for wireless headphones or IEMS, and at cost.  But it makes it more viable than conventional system, and everyone can buy into this technology to develope their own wireless.  It just a matter of time, but we are still not there yet


----------



## rhsauer

Immixx said:


> I have had my 65t for exactly a month now. I have travelled extensively throughout this past month and have used the 65t in airplanes (10 times), railways (1 time), subway / metro (multiple times), cars (during long distance drives), 2 different gyms, home, and office. I have noticed that the connection is perfect everywhere except in the following places:
> 
> In my office cubicle, which is right in the middle of the building on ground floor and is infested with 12 different wifi routers and 2 different cordless phones sitting next to me. Here my left earbud keeps disconnecting no matter what position my head is in. No issue for me as I don't wear it while I am in my office.
> In the subway (metro) but ONLY when it is running underground AND I am sitting next to the window, the left earbud keeps dropping connection and I have to tilt my head in multiple directions to figure out in which position the connection remains. While underground and when I am sitting in the aisle seat or standing in the aisle, the left earbud only occasionally drops connection (once in a minute or so). When the metro is running above ground, the connection remains rock solid. I now don't sit next to the window.
> ...



When I opened the Jabra Sound+ app today on my iphone there was an update available for the Elite 65t's, which brought the software from version 2.1.0 all the way up to version 2.6.0.  (It actually incorporated two updates.)  Between the two updates, the release notes indicate both improved sound and improved connectivity.  Since updating, I've noticed that in the one area where wifi routers seemed to be causing left earbud dropouts (unfortunately, that's at my desk) there are now no more dropouts.  Also the sound seems a bit deeper and fuller (but I need to listen a bit more to confirm that).  I was hoping this update would bring Alexa to IOS, but it didn't.  I guess that feature is still "coming soon."  All in all, I love these earphones.

I also have the Jabra Elite Actives, and, as many people have been saying, I've had trouble getting a good fit with the supplied tips.  I've been using the large Spin Fit tips and that works well -- but I had to cut a bit off the tips' stems to get them to fit in the case -- and, even with that kludge, the case doesn't close perfectly.  It's a shame, because the Elite Sports are great earphones too.


----------



## david8613

Did this update automatically?I'm on android and i still see the older firmware.

I just wanted to give an update on my usage, took the jabra 65t to downtown Newark, to a very busy nike outlet store with lots of interference, no drop outs. Went to gym 3 days in a row, great no drop outs. Sound quality is very good, very deep bass. Made a few phone calls no problems loud and clear on both ends. Battery lasts crazy long. This is a great headset, I think we finally have an acceptable true wireless headset. If I had to gripe about something its that the exterior is very slippery pulling out of case, I think I might want the active version when its released. Right now my top true wireless in ears are the jabra elite 65t, jabra elite sport, and my Samsung iconx 2018.


----------



## SteveKiwi

david8613 said:


> im running my sony wf1000x and noticed im only getting about 2 hours, is that normal I thought I was supposed to be 3 hours run time? its too bad because they sound so good.


The two hour battery life is what I'm seeing too.

I get much better battery life from the Soundsport Free and Beoplay E8.

As you said its a shame because the sound quality of the Sony is very good


----------



## antsin3d

I picked up the Jabra Sport and B&O E8 to test out. E8 is really nice, after a couple hours burn in they sounded great. However, I intend to use these while working out, and the Jabra's actually had a more exciting sound, if not quite as refined. Add the more secure fit, the fact I can swim with them, and the HR tracking and it's a winner for me. I almost want to keep the e8's just for office and home use, but it's a lot to spend for that when I have lots of full size headphones


----------



## matneh

$100 for refurbished Jabra Elite Sport: https://m.ebay.com/itm/Jabra-Elite-...k%2Fitm%2F162947547188&rvr_id=0&ul_noapp=true


----------



## taxidrivr

has anyone owned/compared the jabra 65t's and the PSB tw1?


----------



## david8613

I am doing the update for the jabra elite 65t as we speak, pretty cool. I am wondering if there will be an update for the Jabra elite sport? I gotta check.


----------



## Ocelitgol

hey everyone, thanks to previous posts, I got myself the Jabra Elite 65T. I'm quite impressed with everything about it (coming from iconX 2018) but does anyone find the provided ear tips to be not enough? The earbuds themselves don't look like they go deep into my ears so I'm having trouble with finding a good seal. Has anyone tried the truly wireless comply ones? I'm thinking of getting them but they do look like they're short so that won't fix the shallow insert.


----------



## Immixx

stormers said:


> hey everyone, thanks to previous posts, I got myself the Jabra Elite 65T. I'm quite impressed with everything about it (coming from iconX 2018) but does anyone find the provided ear tips to be not enough? The earbuds themselves don't look like they go deep into my ears so I'm having trouble with finding a good seal. Has anyone tried the truly wireless comply ones? I'm thinking of getting them but they do look like they're short so that won't fix the shallow insert.



I have also noticed that it's a struggle to get a good seal with the supplier silicon tips. With the UE Super.fi5 pro that I had earlier, I was using the medium size tips and I could get a good seal with ease every single time. With the 65t, the medium tips are too small and even the big size tips don't go deep enough, and therefore it's hard to get a good seal. I tried using the tips that came with my UE Super.fi5 Pro and a few others sourced locally (haven't tried comply yet), and while the fit gets sorted out I have noticed the following:


the stem of the eartip does not lock very well with the earbuds and therefore sometimes the tip detaches from the earbud and remains inside my ear while taking the earbud out of my ear
the case does not close because the eartips are deeper/longer than the stock tips
And so I am back to using the stock tips. Someone here mentioned that even the comply truly wireless do not provide a good seal/sound. They didn't mention anything about the locking mechanism with the earbud but it's pointless anyway if the seal doesn't improve over the stock tips


----------



## Ocelitgol

Immixx said:


> I have also noticed that it's a struggle to get a good seal with the supplier silicon tips. With the UE Super.fi5 pro that I had earlier, I was using the medium size tips and I could get a good seal with ease every single time. With the 65t, the medium tips are too small and even the big size tips don't go deep enough, and therefore it's hard to get a good seal. I tried using the tips that came with my UE Super.fi5 Pro and a few others sourced locally (haven't tried comply yet), and while the fit gets sorted out I have noticed the following:
> 
> 
> the stem of the eartip does not lock very well with the earbuds and therefore sometimes the tip detaches from the earbud and remains inside my ear while taking the earbud out of my ear
> ...


what a shame. the fit is really the only problem I have with these. IconX was perfect fit for me but almost everything else is subpar compare to Elite 65


----------



## tonehk

stormers said:


> what a shame. the fit is really the only problem I have with these. IconX was perfect fit for me but almost everything else is subpar compare to Elite 65


can you tell me please why icon X is subpar compared to the Elite 65? is it the audio quality? or the connection reliability?


----------



## tonehk

Immixx said:


> I have also noticed that it's a struggle to get a good seal with the supplier silicon tips. With the UE Super.fi5 pro that I had earlier, I was using the medium size tips and I could get a good seal with ease every single time. With the 65t, the medium tips are too small and even the big size tips don't go deep enough, and therefore it's hard to get a good seal. I tried using the tips that came with my UE Super.fi5 Pro and a few others sourced locally (haven't tried comply yet), and while the fit gets sorted out I have noticed the following:
> 
> 
> the stem of the eartip does not lock very well with the earbuds and therefore sometimes the tip detaches from the earbud and remains inside my ear while taking the earbud out of my ear
> ...



This is a known issue with Jabra. i own the sport elite and tried the 65t. i think by design, the stems are short so shallow fit. if you use 3rd party tips they dont fit in the box.  perhaps they intentionally made it a semi isolation design to allow outside noise, but not as bad as bose or apple.   too bad as everything else about it is great.


----------



## Ocelitgol (Mar 28, 2018)

tonehk said:


> can you tell me please why icon X is subpar compared to the Elite 65? is it the audio quality? or the connection reliability?


sure. To my taste, the Elite 65T has a more balanced sound (which I prefer) and iconX is more bassy and not much separation.
The mic is way better on the Elite 65T: my friends said I sound loud and clear compared to when I tried with IconX.
While I love the onboard storage for music (I used it just because it provides longer battery life that way ~7hrs), but the Elite 65T themselves last way more than 5 hrs (I got around more than 6hrs on a charge continuous play at around 60% volume), in addition, the case provides 2 more charges (I think) so basically it's better for me than iconx (~14hrs in total w/ onboard music vs. ~18 or 19hrs on Elite 65T in total).
I love touch control but I sometimes touch them by accident and it can be quite irritating.
I have a fitness watch so I expected no health benefits from the earbuds so I'm fine with the 65T not having any.
Transparent mode is way better on 65T too (iconx's mode sounds too digital).
Software: I LOVE Auto-pause, I don't think iconx has this (as far as i can remember). Elite 65T app provides EQ that works well and Alexa support, while i don't use it much, I appreciate that it's there. The battery status seems to be accurate too (I kept checking every hour the first day I got them).
After all these, water-resistant is just icing on the cake for me 

PS: connection is the most solid. Never drop on me (not once). I think there's a slight audio lag while watching youtube but I'm not sure, I was really paying attention to find any syncing issue


----------



## david8613

sound quality wise Jabra elite 65t>Jabra elite sport> Samsung iconx 2018.


----------



## Bshah (Apr 1, 2018)

I'm using the Optoma Nuforce BE Free8 with my Sony Nw-ZX300 with all music in FLAC. I tried all the ear tips that came with the Free8 and couldn't get the bass right. Then I tried a set of Sony silicon ear tips (ones with coloured ear tip "stalks") and these transformed the sound. The ear tips that came with the Feee8 are supposed to be Spintips but I was not impressed with them. I've not suffered any BT issues at all. There was initially some white noise when new but there seems to less after 2 hours.

Edit: just disovered when using my LG V20 with the USB Audio Player Pro that the white noise experienced by some users is heavily reduced with this audio player over the native LG music app.


----------



## The Apostle

I bought the Jabra Elite 65t for business calls. So far they are great...  Has anyone tried any of the "well reviewed" cheap options from Amazon like the TOZO T8?  I'm just curious and have not seen anything in this thread about them.


----------



## GTan

So I've purchased the Elite 65t, one thing that bugs me is the video audio sync I have with my iPhone X and YouTube videos.
I actually wonder if this earbud is running AAC as the supported compression codec? Anyway to tell?


----------



## Ocelitgol

GTan said:


> So I've purchased the Elite 65t, one thing that bugs me is the video audio sync I have with my iPhone X and YouTube videos.
> I actually wonder if this earbud is running AAC as the supported compression codec? Anyway to tell?


I think you can connect to a MacBook to find out? (I don't use Apple but I've heard people testing that way).  
On Android, it definitely support AAC


----------



## GTan (Apr 4, 2018)

stormers said:


> I think you can connect to a MacBook to find out? (I don't use Apple but I've heard people testing that way).
> On Android, it definitely support AAC



You can't exactly just connect to a Macbook to confirm this, the MacOS like all other OS's will revert to SBC if the default codec is not supported. Not all Android's support AAC, subject to your hardware and OS tweak from the manufacturer.

Jabra Support just replied to my ticket, confirming the earbuds only run on SBC.


----------



## Ocelitgol (Apr 5, 2018)

GTan said:


> You can't exactly just connect to a Macbook to confirm this, the MacOS like all other OS's will revert to SBC if the default codec is not supported. Not all Android's support AAC, subject to your hardware and OS tweak from the manufacturer.
> 
> Jabra Support just replied to my ticket, confirming the earbuds only run on SBC.


That's odd. It says AAC on my s8+


----------



## Bshah

Update on the Optoma Nuforce BE Free8.

I bought some real Spinfit ear tips and the ones available from retail outlets; these are superb. The Spinfit ear tips that come with the Free8 are really poor. Why didn't Optoma use proper Spinfit ear tips? The real Spinfit ear tips transorms the sound.


----------



## Tommy C

Bshah said:


> Update on the Optoma Nuforce BE Free8.
> 
> I bought some real Spinfit ear tips and the ones available from retail outlets; these are superb. The Spinfit ear tips that come with the Free8 are really poor. Why didn't Optoma use proper Spinfit ear tips? The real Spinfit ear tips transorms the sound.



How’s the battery life and case?


----------



## Bshah

Tommy C said:


> How’s the battery life and case?


Definitely get 3 hours for a full charge but I think the battery has less life on LHS headset. I'm not sure I'll get three full recharges from the case. Early days as I've only charged the main case twice.


----------



## Shockerz

Hey 
So this is my first reply ever because i mostly observe then act on it but coming to the point . I have purchased Jabra 65t and find that the left side has got more volume when it comes to songs and right side is kinda low . When answering calls the right side is more than the left side 

I am just concerned about the pair if its faulty 

Thanks


----------



## Tommy C

Shockerz said:


> Hey
> So this is my first reply ever because i mostly observe then act on it but coming to the point . I have purchased Jabra 65t and find that the left side has got more volume when it comes to songs and right side is kinda low . When answering calls the right side is more than the left side
> 
> I am just concerned about the pair if its faulty
> ...



Have you contacted their customer service?


----------



## Shockerz

Tommy C said:


> Have you contacted their customer service?


doing it right now but its such a headachee because i have to send it back to somewhere i think and pay for the shipping cost 
hope for the best and see what is the outcome of sending it for repair


----------



## clerkpalmer

Shockerz said:


> Hey
> So this is my first reply ever because i mostly observe then act on it but coming to the point . I have purchased Jabra 65t and find that the left side has got more volume when it comes to songs and right side is kinda low . When answering calls the right side is more than the left side
> 
> I am just concerned about the pair if its faulty
> ...


My Bose had this problem.   Rmad them New ones don’t do this.


----------



## Shockerz

clerkpalmer said:


> My Bose had this problem.   Rmad them New ones don’t do this.



i am kinda new to the Rmad so how do i exactly do this 

Thanks


----------



## clerkpalmer

Shockerz said:


> i am kinda new to the Rmad so how do i exactly do this
> 
> Thanks


Sorry. Returns merchandise authorization. Just a return. It’s a pia but bose support is pretty solid.


----------



## Ocelitgol

Jabra app on Android for Elite 65T just got an update and it freezes. anyone experiencing same error?


----------



## dkstott

I was getting a freeze after shutting down Bluetooth.  But since today's app update, that issue is gone.

I really like the new changes to the app.  There are different levels of the hear-through now.  I can have a setting for undisturbed & another for driving.


----------



## david8613

Samsung released a new update for the
 iconx 2018 with some really nice features, some I have been asking for, we have a real eq yay!!! I am going to update now, read this article.

https://www.androidpolice.com/2018/...transfer-songs-wirelessly-tune-ambient-noise/


----------



## mikp

dkstott said:


> I was getting a freeze after shutting down Bluetooth.  But since today's app update, that issue is gone.
> 
> I really like the new changes to the app.  There are different levels of the hear-through now.  I can have a setting for undisturbed & another for driving.


also hearthrough with music playing, i think thats new. Just set it on the phone first, then it works on other devices


----------



## david8613 (Apr 11, 2018)

Good job Samsung very nice firmware update, now with adjustable volume of ambient sound, no fully adjustable eq yet sad, only preset eq but this is still good. sound sig sounds different a lot more clearer and cleaner, more separation but she still doesn't have the power and authority of bass like the Jabras, although bass is still very good. I also notice the touch controls are little less sensitive, a lot of people complained they were too sensitive, I thought they were just fine. I am not sure if I like that they are less sensitive since I had a lot of practice with the touch controls and did not have any trouble with them, I was very proficient using the touch controls, I think its one of the samsung iconx best features. I still feel this is a very underrated headset, I wish more would try them they are very good. even though right now I think the Jabra 65t is king of the hill.


----------



## MattBow

I've heard a lot of reports of the Samsungs seizing up with sweat and one ear going quiet. Any experience of that?


----------



## david8613

I haven't had any problems like that with either 1st or 2nd generation of iconx ear buds. I use mine daily, gym, weight lifting, running, office work, no issues. people tell me I have them on too much sometimes, no issues to speak of, love them.


----------



## Shockerz

so the guy came to my place to check the issue and for a matter of speaking , there was no issue its only that the sound from the apple store is not stereo enough 

did try the youtube videos like  and it played perfectly and he did let me try the spare 65t that he got with him , that also worked the same way

so far i am really happy with the purchase


----------



## Bshah

Optoma Nuforce BE Free8.  When using with my Oreo Note 8 (Exynos) I had to select Aptx manually from Developer Options. Sounds great when using FLAC and USB Audio Player Pro.


----------



## david8613

Bshah said:


> Optoma Nuforce BE Free8.  When using with my Oreo Note 8 (Exynos) I had to select Aptx manually from Developer Options. Sounds great when using FLAC and USB Audio Player Pro.


how do you find those settings


----------



## The Apostle

david8613 said:


> how do you find those settings



About phone... 
Then rapidly tap on build number about 8 times. 
You'll see the message that you unlocked developer options. This is standard across all Android.


----------



## Bshah

david8613 said:


> how do you find those settings



See the instructions here

https://www.digitaltrends.com/mobile/how-to-get-developer-options-on-android/


And see attached screen shot.


----------



## kevinscottcaja

So, I purchased the Jabra Elite 65t three days ago and here are my thoughts.

Pros:
- The sound quality is great. Out of the box it sounds bad at first but after a combined 15 hours of burn in the sound is actually balanced and has a mild V shaped sound signature which I like.
- Call quality is okay, its great in moderate noise but not great if I use the mics in a noisy subway for example. However all of my headsets with mics are like that which is acceptable.
- Bluetooth connection is superb. I can use the earbuds even if my phone is in the other room.
- Battery life is amazing as I get 6 hours use instead of the advertised 5 hours. Volume level is around 70%.

Cons:
- The NFMI antenna seems to be susceptible to electromagnetic interference. If I go near around 2 feet on lights (CFL tube with large ballast or inductor) the left earbud cuts off. Funnily enough it never happens in my subway commute. They could probably fix this via firmware update to increase the power output of the NFMI antenna of the right earbud.
- Eartip selection is rather small. The medium eartips are loose while the large eartips are painful after long use. Currently using Comply.
- The left earbud also seems to be a bit louder than the right earbud but when I raise the volume at 80% they balance out even after I lower the volume. This could be fix via a firmware update.

So far, I'm happy with the purchase. I'm thinking of buying the Beoplay E8 but I cannot find any detailed comparison of the 65t and E8.


----------



## david8613

The Apostle said:


> About phone...
> Then rapidly tap on build number about 8 times.
> You'll see the message that you unlocked developer options. This is standard across all Android.



very cool, what settings should I use when using Samsung iconx 2018 Jabra 65t and Jabra elite sport for best sound quality of course.


----------



## garry35

clerkpalmer said:


> Has anyone used the e8 at gym? Also others are reporting the volume in the right earpiece is lower than the left. Has anyone experienced this? Just got mine today but haven't investigated. I think the sq is excellent overall and compares favorably to the Bose.  Very warm sounding.I can't believe how far sq has come on these second generation buds.



i have boplay e8 and bose soundsport truly wireless, as for the sq on beoplay compared to the bose the sq is lower (but i have read others say the buds need running in, this comparison was before the running in) the touch controls on the buds have a small delay of about 1s before response making changing track via double tap on the bud hit and miss and its very easy to think you havent pressed.


----------



## david8613

Bshah said:


> See the instructions here
> 
> https://www.digitaltrends.com/mobile/how-to-get-developer-options-on-android/
> 
> ...


what setting do I put to get the best sound?


----------



## Bshah (Apr 18, 2018)

From the Developer options - for the WF1000x ensure LDAC is selected while you playback music and then on the additional LDAC controls select Best Quality over Best Connection. I believe you can set LDAC  as the default from the BT settings for the WF1000x once connected. Repeat the above for your BT devices.


----------



## david8613

I saw some other settings like Bluetooth sample rate, acrcp, audio bits per sample. I just put everything in the higher level is that ok?


----------



## david8613 (Apr 19, 2018)

well this sucks I found a site that shows the codecs that head phones use and the iconx2018 and the jabras old and new versions don't use any special codecs, except only Sony's, they do but I sold my Sony's due to poor battery life connection problems outdoors compared to the Samsung and Jabras. The Sony's sound was excellent already I could imagine with ldac how much better they could sound, anyone test this?

https://www.bluetoothcheck.com/a/samsung-gear-iconx-2018/jabra-elite-65t

https://www.bluetoothcheck.com/a/jaybird-x3/sony-wi-1000x


----------



## Ocelitgol

david8613 said:


> well this sucks I found a site that shows the codecs that head phones use and the iconx2018 and the jabras old and new versions don't use any special codecs, except only Sony's, they do but I sold my Sony's due to poor battery life connection problems outdoors compared to the Samsung and Jabras. The Sony's sound was excellent already I could imagine with ldac how much better they could sound, anyone test this?
> 
> https://www.bluetoothcheck.com/a/samsung-gear-iconx-2018/jabra-elite-65t
> 
> https://www.bluetoothcheck.com/a/jaybird-x3/sony-wi-1000x


To my ears, LDAC is not like a dramatic difference compare to AAC or AptX (320kbs or flac files). You might notice a little bit more soundstage and a bit brighter. The battery and connection are worse than the other codecs. In my case, it's not worth the trade-off. 
Right now I'm also quite satisfied with the Jabra 65T as I gave my iconx 2018 and Sony's to my family. 
BTW, have anyone tried the Dash Pro?


----------



## pprj

Guys
Very good discussion. Lots to learn. Thank you for all the shared info.

If your #1 criteria to select your headphone was "background sound isolating microphones", so you sound great when on the phone in a noisy environment, which one would you pick?


----------



## RedSky0 (Apr 20, 2018)

Anyone come across an aliexpress model that doesn't cut out? My QCY Q29 Pros would be perfectly suitable for podcasts if they didn't cut out in the city when I put my phone* in my pocket.


----------



## nc8000

RedSky0 said:


> Anyone come across an aliexpress model that doesn't cut out? My QCY Q29 Pros would be perfectly suitable for podcasts if they didn't cut out in the city when I put them in my pocket.



Why are you worried about the phones cutting out when they are not in your ear ?


----------



## RedSky0

nc8000 said:


> Why are you worried about the phones cutting out when they are not in your ear ?



Woops, poor phrasing! Meant my phone. 

The range to my phone is pretty reasonable indoors, but in the city I often have to hold it in my hand to get a clear signal.


----------



## clerkpalmer

New entry:  https://www.bestbuy.com/site/jvc-ha...dphones-android-black/6200739.p?skuId=6200739


----------



## mikp

RedSky0 said:


> Anyone come across an aliexpress model that doesn't cut out? My QCY Q29 Pros would be perfectly suitable for podcasts if they didn't cut out in the city when I put my phone* in my pocket.


I did get the qcy t1 and its rubbish, left (slave) side disconnects outside or while walking. Paid 29$ for it, complained and got 15$ back.
Works fine as mono earbuds.

Did get the jabra 65t and could not be happier.  After what little I have read, it looks like all those tws clones have the same problem of keeping a connection with few drop outs.


----------



## RedSky0 (Apr 21, 2018)

mikp said:


> I did get the qcy t1 and its rubbish, left (slave) side disconnects outside or while walking. Paid 29$ for it, complained and got 15$ back.
> Works fine as mono earbuds.
> 
> Did get the jabra 65t and could not be happier.  After what little I have read, it looks like all those tws clones have the same problem of keeping a connection with few drop outs.



Thanks. Yeah I'm leaning towards either 65t or waiting for the Active (IP56 vs IP55 water resistance) although not much difference probably.

Might also wait for Qualcomm's QCC5100, probably around mid this year. Looks like it will enable competitors to catch up with Apple's W1 chip which seems to have a pretty big leg up on battery life:

https://www.qualcomm.com/solutions/voice-and-music/features/truewireless

Can I ask if you can configure the buttons on the 65t to skip back/forward X seconds instead of just skip track? Thanks.


----------



## Immixx

RedSky0 said:


> Can I ask if you can configure the buttons on the 65t to skip back/forward X seconds instead of just skip track? Thanks.


Not possible. There is no way to map the buttons to other functions


----------



## kevinscottcaja (May 7, 2018)

*UPDATE:* Added some more images and some info regarding the NFMI connectivity comparison with Jabra 65t.

Hi all! So I purchased the Earin M-2 here in Hong Kong, they are available here for a few months now so I decided to pull the trigger. I've been using them for one week and here are my thoughts.

*
Comfort, Control, Battery life and Portability:*

They are really small and very comfortable. They sit flush in the ears and completely invisible, very low profile. I don't feel any earlobe pain after long use.

The earbud controls are capacitive and touch sensitive. This means a simple light touch on the side is needed instead of a push. This is great because you don't have to push hard which hurt the ears of some if you wanted to pause music. The touch controls are basic, one tap to pause/play or answers calls, two taps for next song or to end call or reject incoming call, three taps for previous song and long press to activate voices assistant.

The charging case is really small (4 inches tall and 0.8 inch widest part). They are very pocketable than the charging case of the Jabra Elite 65t that I own. It’s also made of aluminium adding that premium feel to the touch. Earin have chosen to use micro USB (Micro B), I have no complains but some people might prefer USB C. The charging case has three LED lights to indicate the charge of the case. Inside the case are LED lights for each of the buds. Flashing means its charging and steady means its fully charged. It takes under an hour to fully charge the buds and 1.5 hours to fully charge the case. The earbuds also has LED lights right in the centre of the touch area. When taken out of the case, they flash letting you know its powered on and ready to pair. The ear buds last up to 4 hours on a single charge on a 70% volume and and less than 3 to 2.5 hours when you push the volume around 90% to 100%. I can easily reach 4.5 to 5 hours of play time on lower volumes around 50% which are my normal listening volume for this earbuds. The case provides up to 3 charges.


*Connectivity and Pairing:*

Although using an old Bluetooth 4.2, connectivity is stable. Similar to my Jabra Elite 65t, the earbuds did not skip connections from my iPhone X even in highly crowded areas and in the train.

There are no left or right labels on the IEMs as they feature an auto channel selection. The buds themselves have built-in accelerometer that helps with the L/R channel auto assign.

Each of the earbuds can both work as a master or slave. Both earbuds contains the CSR chipset (unlike the 65t which is only on the right side), whichever of the earbuds connects to the device first, it will be the master and the other earbud will use its NFMI to communicate with the master earbud. The two earbuds can also be connected to separate Bluetooth devices, and in this way used as single headsets on two devices. The only thing I think

First time pairing process is a bit cumbersome as you need to pair both earbuds to your phone. This is needed for the auto channel selection and for the master and slave swapping to work. To pair the earbuds, you take out one earbud first and pair and then take out the other earbud and pair. When paired, they auto connect to the last paired device automatically. The first earbud to connect the device will be the master and the other earbud will be the slave.

These earbuds feature aptX codec. This is a huge plus for people using Android, but for me as an iOS user, I'm currently fine with AAC on iPhone and aptX on my MacBook Pro.


*NFMI connectivity (compared to Jabra 65t):*

The NFMI in the Earin is really good, they are using an NFMI chip designed by NXP. Doing research on FCCID website (www.fccid.io), it seems Earin is using a frequency of 10.578Mhz while the Jabra Elite 65t uses 10.6Mhz. The NFMI connection between the earbuds is very stable, the slave earbud never loses connection to the master earbud, while in my 65t the left earbud always loses connection, especially if I go near on places with lots of CFL lights or if I go inside a mobile phone shops with lots of turned on demo phones or in shops with CCTV cameras that uses the 10.6Mhz frequency. The left side of my Jabra Elite 65t is also a lot louder than the right side, however the loudness equalises when I pushed the volume around 80%. On lower volumes, the L/R channel is slightly imbalanced. It could be that my Jabra 65t is defective but trying two pairs of 65t in the store yields the same result. The Earin on the other hand did not have these kinds of problem.


*Microphone and Calls:*

They feature two microphone per earbud (Similar to the 65t) and one mic is used for noise cancelling during calls. The sensitivity of the mics are a bit on the lower side than the 65t but what impressed me the most if how much noise it blocks out than the 65t. Compared to the 65t, even in a very noisy environment, callers did not here much of the noise and they can clearly here my voice. The 65t on the other hand had some difficulties filtering some of noise.

Only one earbud work for calls. Whichever of the earbuds is the assigned master, this will be the one used for call. This is problematic since if you happen to place the one earbud in your left ear first, that will be the assigned master. Some people find weird answering calls with sound coming only on their left ear as some people are accustomed answering calls in their right side of the ear. My solution was to take out one bud first and place it on my right ear (the one I use mostly for calls) which will auto connect to my iPhone and will be assigned as the master, and then place the other earbud in my left ear which will be assigned as the slave. This way, the right side is always used for calls.

The earbuds feature a sound transparency similar of that of the Jabra Elite 65t. I really do not use this feature so I can't say anything about it but running a quick test, you can clearly hear the person talking to you and adjust the sensitivity of the mics and volume to your preference. You can also set automatic to automatically turn on sound transparency when you pause your music.


*Ear tip rolling:*

The earbuds uses a 5mm diameter nozzle and is 6mm long, can easily fit standard ear tips. You can see from the image attached I'm using the Sony hybrid ear tips.


*Phone app:*

Earin provides and app to control the sound transparency feature and adjust the L/R balance. There is no built-in EQ, so this will be a bummer for some. I do hope Earin will release an app which includes an EQ in the future. The app also show the battery life of the earbuds. The earbuds does not display any battery percentage on the battery widget on iOS (unlike the Jabra), the battery level is visible only in the app but it’s a simple circle and no numerical indicators. However, I have never tested this on Android as I don't own any Android phones/tablet anymore. The app also provides firmware updates for the earbuds, however this is not available at the moment according to Earin but will be coming soon. The firmware version is currently visible on Android while on iOS, the firmware version is not visible. Earin said this was a bug and will roll out a new app for iOS.

There are two version numbers viewable in the app, CSR and NXP. It could mean than we can both update the firmwares of the CSR chip (responsible for the codec and bluetooth) and the NXP chip (responsible for NFMI).


*Sound Analysis:*

Now, this is the one that all have been waiting for. These are IEMs in the end of the day so sound is the most important overall. The earbuds do feature a single full range balanced armature (Probably a Knowles RAB-Series based on my analysis after removing the cloth mesh filter. Don't worry, I returned the mesh in place. Don't want dirt to get in to the armature).

The sound signature is warm neutral and with slightly boost in the sub bass region. I've been listening to my UMPro50 v2 for a long time as they are my daily driver specially for commute to work. Compare to them, they sound above average and would consider them a good all rounder for a single balanced armature let alone being a true wireless one.


Bass:

The bass is deep, punchy and does not bleed in the mids. The overall bass is comparable to my Westone UMPro50 v2 with a slight increase on the sub bass region and the bass is a bit lower than my UMPro50 v2. Listening to some EDM, RnB and Hip Hop in my collection, I can definitely hear the sub bass and bass, fast, thumpy, clear and free from any distortion. The feeling though is different. It still has that rumble, but not on the level of big dynamic drivers. Compared to my Jabra Elite 65t though, I find the Earin to be a bit more bassier on the sub bass region (ironic since the 65t probably uses dynamic drivers). All in all, a very good quality sub bass and bass that is accurate and fast but adds that small notch to give you that slight warm and fun to the sound.


Mids:

The mids are lush and rich, they are also the part thats a bit dominant than the bass and highs but not by much. There is a decent amount of separation in the instruments. Vocals sound great for both male and female voices. The overall linearity of the mids is flat.


Highs:

The highs are really good and above average for a single balance armature, they extend around 16khz, which is a standard on most typical single balanced armature. Linearity is flat, this means there is no high peaks which introduces that "tisss" and sibilance sound. What impressed me is despite the warm sound signature, the highs are still clear. You can still hear it if the music demands for it. Cymbals and high hats sounds natural. Not boosted but still fairly clear and natural. Although some who crave that boosted treble may find the highs lacking that sparkle at the end.


*Conclusion:*

Compared to my 65t, I find the Earin M-2 a very good sounding true wireless IEM. For lovers of a warm and flat sound signature, I would recommend them. Call quality is great, connectivity is great. Overall a happy and great purchase.

Here are some images for viewing pleasure:

 


Charging case uses Micro USB (Type B)


Size comparison on a typical credit card sized card.


Earbuds inside the charging case.


Accessories and box (Short micro USB cable, two pairs of extra foam tips and two pairs of small and large silicone tips)



Driver and nozzle analysis (cloth screen mesh removed).


----------



## david8613

these look nice how long does the battery last?


----------



## clerkpalmer

Only 470 on eBay...  I guess they are not releasing in the us under that branding? I wonder when they will be available.


----------



## kevinscottcaja

david8613 said:


> these look nice how long does the battery last?


Battery lasts about 4 hours on 80% volume. I can squeeze more if listening on 50% volume, around 4.5 to 5 hours.

Case provides 3 charges.


----------



## kevinscottcaja

clerkpalmer said:


> Only 470 on eBay...  I guess they are not releasing in the us under that branding? I wonder when they will be available.


They should release it soon outside of Asia. No one seems to buy these here in Hong Kong. But I decided to pull the trigger and bought one. I love it. Although that may be biased as I like a more neutral sound siganture similar to my Etys.


----------



## clerkpalmer

Great form factor. Sleek. I forgot about them after they were supposed to release a year ago. Not sure will I am will make them any better. I thought the m1 sounded pretty good.


----------



## david8613

so are the controls similar to the Samsung iconx with touch controls, using taps and swipes, I don't see any physical buttons.

anyone know when the Jabra 65t active will be available, I heard it was supposed to be April but I don't see them any where just the normal model.


----------



## clerkpalmer

I too am waiting on the active. And the new sony launch mid May but they may be uglier than the Bose.


----------



## david8613

yes I agree the new sonys are very ugly, they look like giant beans hanging out ears, plus they did not add to battery life, should have been at least 5 hours.


----------



## kevinscottcaja

david8613 said:


> so are the controls similar to the Samsung iconx with touch controls, using taps and swipes, I don't see any physical buttons.



Nope, the controls are just simple taps and long press. There are no swipe gestures of some sorts.


----------



## taxidrivr (Apr 27, 2018)

these earins look and sound promising. I'm also waiting for Jabra to put the 65t active's out.

bought a pair of RHA t20i's that I'll likely return.


----------



## matneh

I put in my order for the Earin M2.  Website says they are selling 1000 for $250 each.  Worth a try!


----------



## clerkpalmer

What's the word on sweat proof? 250 seems a bit high but I have a hard time resisting.


----------



## kevinscottcaja

clerkpalmer said:


> What's the word on sweat proof? 250 seems a bit high but I have a hard time resisting.


Well I do sweat a lot even on doing simple things. So far they are still working. Earin says they are sweat/splash proof but they are not water resistant meaning you can't take them for swimming.


----------



## clerkpalmer

kevinscottcaja said:


> Well I do sweat a lot even on doing simple things. So far they are still working. Earin says they are sweat/splash proof but they are not water resistant meaning you can't take them for swimming.


How's the stability? Any wings or locks with these?


----------



## kevinscottcaja

clerkpalmer said:


> How's the stability? Any wings or locks with these?


They don't have wings, but they do sit flush in my ears. I tried running with them and they don't fall off my ears. The earbuds are so light I simply do not feel them and they don't hurt my ears.


----------



## MIBUK

kevinscottcaja said:


> Well I do sweat a lot even on doing simple things. So far they are still working. Earin says they are sweat/splash proof but they are not water resistant meaning you can't take them for swimming.



Will you use them for running/exercise? What’s the IP rating?

In the app, is there anywhere to change the treble/bass at all or you just get what you get? But I heard the sound is good anyway. 

Do they last the 4 hours that they advertise? 

I guess all the issues with charging etc are now fixed with the M-2? Do they discharge at all in the case if not used?

Is there any sound lag when watching video?

Thanks


----------



## kevinscottcaja

MIBUK said:


> Will you use them for running/exercise? What’s the IP rating?
> 
> In the app, is there anywhere to change the treble/bass at all or you just get what you get? But I heard the sound is good anyway.
> 
> ...


There are no IP rating posted on Earin's website. They last 3.5 to 4 hours on my iPhone X 70% 80% volume. It could be different on a other phones and bluetooth versions. I made a test and blasted the volume 100% (not plugged in my ears of course) and it lasted 2.5 to 3 hours with continuous music playing. I don't have the M-1, and I never purchased that in the past. The M-2's auto turn off when you place them in the case, and auto turn on when you remove them. The earbuds attached magnetically and they fit snuggly in the case. As for latency, I did not encounter any latency, even when I use them in my laptop computer.


----------



## Tobias89

Anyone tried the updated Erato Apollo 7S?


----------



## kevinscottcaja

Tobias89 said:


> Anyone tried the updated Erato Apollo 7S?


I only had a quick demo of the Apollo 7S, the sound signature is slightly V shaped, and fun sounding. The bass is not over powering and the highs are extended and not that sibilant. The sound signature is almost similar to the Zolo Liberty+ using the balanced EQ in the Zolo Life app. I demoed this on an iPhone so no aptx.


----------



## Tobias89

I see. 

Since u r using the zolo liberty+, i have afew qns as well.

Are they that good? Read quite afew conflicting reviews on then. Hows the connection stability?

Also, do u happen to have any comparison?

Cheers man,
Tobias


----------



## kevinscottcaja (Apr 30, 2018)

Tobias89 said:


> I see.
> 
> Since u r using the zolo liberty+, i have afew qns as well.
> 
> ...


They are good connection wise. The sound is similar to the verse with a slight boost in the bass and mids. The treble extension is really good as well. Compared to the 65t's treble lacks extension. The 65t soundstage is a bit narrower compared to the Liberty+. If I were to choose the between the two, I would choose the Liberty+. But personally I love a neutral sound sig hence I got the Earin M-2.


----------



## Tobias89

kevinscottcaja said:


> They are good connection wise. The sound is similar to the verse with a slight boost in the bass and mids. The treble extension is really good as well. Compared to the 65t's treble lacks extension. The 65t soundstage is a bit narrower compared to the Liberty+. If I were to choose the between the two, I would choose the Liberty+. But personally I love a neutral sound sig hence I got the Earin M-2.


Thanks for the write up! Any lag when viewing videos?


----------



## nc8000

Going with all the reviews of most of the offerings there don’t really seem to be a stand out product. All of the offerings seem to get both very good and very bad reviews. I have only tried the Beoplay E8 and for me it is good enough but not perfect


----------



## kevinscottcaja

Tobias89 said:


> Thanks for the write up! Any lag when viewing videos?


There is some slight video lag on the Zolo Liberty+ about 0.2 second.


----------



## david8613

when the heck is the Jabra elite 65t active coming out, last I heard was April but it is still not available.


----------



## MIBUK (Apr 30, 2018)

david8613 said:


> when the heck is the Jabra elite 65t active coming out, last I heard was April but it is still not available.



In Sweden, I saw 20th May from an online retailer, but they said the date could change. I asked Jabra on Twitter and they didn’t know! So, probably June then. I may just go for the Earin M-2’s if the reviews are good.


----------



## hifi80sman

They recently posted a review of the Jabra 65ts on rtings.  Looks like their measurements mirror some user comments on one driver sounding louder than the other.
https://www.rtings.com/headphones/reviews/jabra/elite-65t

The Jabra 65t Active are on Amazon, but sold out.
https://www.amazon.com/Jabra-Active...TF8&qid=1525216904&sr=8-3&keywords=65t+active

I wonder how the Sony SP700N will perform vs. WF-1000X, which has lag issues and a horrible battery.  It's rated at 2.5 hours, but in reality, it only lasted me barely 2 hours at around 40% volume.  Turned around the same day and returned them.

Purchased the SoundSport Free, but ultimately returned those as well.  Although I thought they sounded quite good, the semi-open nature was hard for me to deal with at the gym I go to.  They blast crappy music there, so I have to turn them up too loud to drown it out, which in turn, could ruin my pristine hearing over time.


----------



## clerkpalmer

I pre-ordered the sp700n. Have high hopes for them. I don't care for the look but I've used other Sony with that earfin design and they are very stable. 

As for the 65t active, Jabra usually does an exclusive with best buy so I'm surprised to seem them on Amazon.


----------



## colonelclaypool (May 2, 2018)

david8613 said:


> when the heck is the Jabra elite 65t active coming out, last I heard was April but it is still not available.



Here in Germany Amazon states June 1st.
I have just pre-ordered them.


----------



## Tobias89

Got the Zolo Liberty+. Quite pleased with it (esp the SQ), and luckily it fits me pretty well. 

There's other TWS which I feel has slightly better SQ (imo Bragi, Jabra, Apollo 7s), but this guy's the most bang for buck one so far, and having them beat for value based on my current requirements for a TWS earbud.


----------



## taxidrivr

bummed the earin's are sold out, really wanted to give them a try.


----------



## picapau

Hi Guys,

What tips are you all using of the Jabra 65T's. I bought the comply ones which are okay but I want something with more sound isolation that also fits into the case. 

Basically need one pair of earphone to replace all my others. Plane travel is a particular problem with sound isolation and dont really want to go back to over ear cans or Bose wired QC20's.


----------



## mikp

picapau said:


> Hi Guys,
> 
> What tips are you all using of the Jabra 65T's. I bought the comply ones which are okay but I want something with more sound isolation that also fits into the case.
> 
> Basically need one pair of earphone to replace all my others. Plane travel is a particular problem with sound isolation and dont really want to go back to over ear cans or Bose wired QC20's.


ill second that, some alternative to the large tips that fits in the case.
I looked at the comply wireless, but they seem too small. Also those foam tips dont last long for me.


----------



## david8613

I use the comply wireless tips with my Samsung iconx 2018 I have not tried with the Jabras yet. they are ok but some reason I like silicon better.


----------



## MIBUK

david8613 said:


> I use the comply wireless tips with my Samsung iconx 2018 I have not tried with the Jabras yet. they are ok but some reason I like silicon better.



I read somewhere that when you put on comply tips, the Jabras won’t fit into the charging unit correctly.


----------



## Ocelitgol

MIBUK said:


> I read somewhere that when you put on comply tips, the Jabras won’t fit into the charging unit correctly.


when you use Comply wireless line, they fit but as stated above, it's not a great fit. 
If anyone's curious, you can also use the ones with big diameter (T600?) from Comply as well, but they are not that secure since you're just fitting it by using the lower part of the nozzle to keep the tips on (I always rotate the earpiece while taking them out to prevent the tips from being stuck inside ear).  
Even though it never fall out on me using these kind of tips and provide better isolation in my case, but they're not perfect.
I will post a pic when I get home for anyone that wanna give it a try.


----------



## Bshah

pprj said:


> Guys
> Very good discussion. Lots to learn. Thank you for all the shared info.
> 
> If your #1 criteria to select your headphone was "background sound isolating microphones", so you sound great when on the phone in a noisy environment, which one would you pick?



Has to be the Sony WH 1000x.


----------



## david8613

I haven't tried the comply on the on my Jabra elites only on my Samsung iconx 2018. I have some big/large silicones tips on the Jabra elites and the case closes just fine, I don't see why it would cause an issue since the complys are smaller.


----------



## picapau

pprj said:


> Guys
> Very good discussion. Lots to learn. Thank you for all the shared info.
> 
> If your #1 criteria to select your headphone was "background sound isolating microphones", so you sound great when on the phone in a noisy environment, which one would you pick?



This might sound like Heresy in this thread but noise cancellation was really important to me as well because of tube travel in london and many flights a year. I’ve pretty much tried every truley wireless headset out there including the Sony’s and have been using the Jabra’s for the past 3 months. I eventually broke and bought the Bose QC30’s. Although not completely wireless as they have a neck band, they have incredible ANC and really do cancel out so much noise. They also sound better than any of the other earphones. The microphone is useless though. I think for the moment I will have to use both the Bose and Jabras until somome perfects the truley wireless earbud.


----------



## david8613

I agree, if you get a nice seal these are really good at noise cancellation, I tested this with ac running in car and high reving my engine, and it worked great and sounded wonderful, I really wanted to keep them, but I did not like the short battery life on the sony wf 1000x.


----------



## david8613

this is pretty cool


----------



## kalien34

Tommy C said:


> I’m very interested.  Jabra 65t vs Elite sport vs Bose Soundsport Free comparison will be ideal if anyone has all three.
> 
> I’m fairly satisfied with the Elite Soort and I like the sport app and the heart rate monitor.
> 
> ...



Currently trying on all 3 of them. Wifey bought me Bose as bday gift, and then I wanted to try Jabra as well since they were spoken highly of by all sorts of reviews. Obviously the 2 brands design their earbud very differently, i.e. in ear or not. Sound quality Bose is unbeatable, even with its semi-open design. Both Jabras are not bad, but it requires proper seal, especially the Elite Sport. If you didn't get it right, Elite Sport will sound like no bass at all. Fit wise, I also like Bose a lot, since it doesn't jam into your ear canal and the signature HearStay ear pin really works well holding onto your ear. I personally don't prefer the way Jabra fits, neither the 65T nor the Elite Sport. 65T is a bit more comfortable but it feels less secure compared to Elite Sport, which has an ear pin as well that helps sticking in your ears, but as time goes by it definitely irritates. Jabras are not unacceptable to me in terms of fit and comfort, but just not as ideal when you compare them with Bose...

Lastly, V/C sync. I don't know why a lot other ppl say Jabras don't have the issue. They do, just like Bose. The lag only occurs with Youtube (or Instagram), on both my iPhone X and MacBook, not on Netflix or Amazon Prime, not even my Xfinity streaming app. Some earlier speculations suggested the reason being local stored vs. streaming video, which is clearly not the case now. I am guessing it really depends on how the manufacturing design their firmwares to fit different softwares/apps. Bose work perfectly fine with Netflix, which I spend most time on. It's actually even better than at least the Elite Sport, which on Netflix I can still feel a tiny bit of lag. So again it really comes down to how the manufacturing tailor the products to tackle this inevitable issue with true wireless headphones.

Oh one more thing, Jabras have a very strict distance limit between the 2 earbuds, which means you won't be able to share one bud with someone else to listen to music. Once you pull one out of your ear, it mutes. But with Bose I can actually share one bud with the wifey while we run outside together. I guess that's not a big deal for most ppl, but it does for me.

So I guess I'll keep the Bose. Having had the QC35 and a mini sound box in the past, I trust Bose will hold up to its quality and reputation, despite the spreading complaints and negatives out there for this Soundsport Free.


----------



## clerkpalmer

My right Bose SSF died on me a couple of days ago.  on the downside, I had several pairs of regular soundsports crap out on me.  I always assumed it was sweat.  I was happy with the SSF because the sealed design appears more sweat resistant (the open USB port on the regular soundsports are the weak link).  No idea why it died but it stopped taking a charge and turning on all of a sudden.  On the plus side, Bose customer service is excellent.  5 minutes on the phone and an RMA was arranged.  I don't like that there is no charge-send option with bose and you have to send them back to them first, but the process is simple as I've done it many times.  Takes about 10 days.  Having not had them and using my PSB TW1's, I've grown to miss the fit of the Bose as well as the multi-point BT connection.  I can easily pair and repair the Bose to multiple devices.  The PSB not so much.  I don't dare disconnect them from my phone because the pairing process sucks so bad.


----------



## Tommy C

kalien34 said:


> Currently trying on all 3 of them. Wifey bought me Bose as bday gift, and then I wanted to try Jabra as well since they were spoken highly of by all sorts of reviews. Obviously the 2 brands design their earbud very differently, i.e. in ear or not. Sound quality Bose is unbeatable, even with its semi-open design. Both Jabras are not bad, but it requires proper seal, especially the Elite Sport. If you didn't get it right, Elite Sport will sound like no bass at all. Fit wise, I also like Bose a lot, since it doesn't jam into your ear canal and the signature HearStay ear pin really works well holding onto your ear. I personally don't prefer the way Jabra fits, neither the 65T nor the Elite Sport. 65T is a bit more comfortable but it feels less secure compared to Elite Sport, which has an ear pin as well that helps sticking in your ears, but as time goes by it definitely irritates. Jabras are not unacceptable to me in terms of fit and comfort, but just not as ideal when you compare them with Bose...
> 
> Lastly, V/C sync. I don't know why a lot other ppl say Jabras don't have the issue. They do, just like Bose. The lag only occurs with Youtube (or Instagram), on both my iPhone X and MacBook, not on Netflix or Amazon Prime, not even my Xfinity streaming app. Some earlier speculations suggested the reason being local stored vs. streaming video, which is clearly not the case now. I am guessing it really depends on how the manufacturing design their firmwares to fit different softwares/apps. Bose work perfectly fine with Netflix, which I spend most time on. It's actually even better than at least the Elite Sport, which on Netflix I can still feel a tiny bit of lag. So again it really comes down to how the manufacturing tailor the products to tackle this inevitable issue with true wireless headphones.
> 
> ...



Thanks!

Currently using the Jabra Elite Sport. I had too many challenges with the Bose Soundsport Free. 
The Jabra fit works better for me and doesn’t stick out which makes it also more presentable at work.


----------



## JustRon

Sorry if I missed it, but does anyone know if there are replacement silicone tips for the Jabra 65t? The ones supplied are flimsy and I can't get a good seal on one ear. All my spare tips don't fit because they are just _slightly_ too big (they stay in my ear when I pull out the earpiece). 
I asked Jabra and they said there are no aftermarket tips that will fit, but I don't know if they really know.


----------



## colonelclaypool

Tommy C said:


> Thanks!
> 
> Currently using the Jabra Elite Sport. I had too many challenges with the Bose Soundsport Free.
> The Jabra fit works better for me and doesn’t stick out which makes it also more presentable at work.



Does it also seal well for you? Better than the Bose?


----------



## Tommy C

colonelclaypool said:


> Does it also seal well for you? Better than the Bose?



The Bose fit was alright but the weight of the buds was a bit annoying.

The Jabra Elite fit me much better with the L side tips or 3rd party tips.
With the Elite Sport it’s important to follow the instructions when it comes to fit.
Initially I didn’t and was twisting the bud to the wrong direction which caused a poor fit and discomfort.


----------



## bruddah

david8613 said:


> this is pretty cool




Does anyone know if the EQ on the Jabra app could make up for its lack in sub-bass? 

Right now, I'm waiting for the Elite Active 65t and I listen to sub-bass heavy music like hip-hop and rap music but continuous battery life is important to me. Anyone have any other suggestions if the Jabra don't satisfy my sound preferences?


----------



## Tommy C

bruddah said:


> Does anyone know if the EQ on the Jabra app could make up for its lack in sub-bass?
> 
> Right now, I'm waiting for the Elite Active 65t and I listen to sub-bass heavy music like hip-hop and rap music but continuous battery life is important to me. Anyone have any other suggestions if the Jabra don't satisfy my sound preferences?



I have the Jabra Elite Sport and it has a huge bass, more than I’m used to. 
It doesn’t bleed to to the mids or highs tho.


----------



## Hyperfluxe

How do the main true wireless IEM's (Jabra Elite 65t Active or regular, Bose SoundSport, Bragi Dash, etc) compare to the best "not true" wireless bluetooth IEM's like the Advanced Model 3?


----------



## clerkpalmer

Hyperfluxe said:


> How do the main true wireless IEM's (Jabra Elite 65t Active or regular, Bose SoundSport, Bragi Dash, etc) compare to the best "not true" wireless bluetooth IEM's like the Advanced Model 3?


I can’t speak for advanced 3 but I have rbh sb, and have had the ma750 wireless and the Vmoda froza metallos which are all some of the best sounding bt iems I’ve ever heard. The bose and the beoplay are a step behind in sq. For gym use and commuting I find them very good but for listening sessions I have a second pair of higher quality iems.


----------



## Hyperfluxe

clerkpalmer said:


> I can’t speak for advanced 3 but I have rbh sb, and have had the ma750 wireless and the Vmoda froza metallos which are all some of the best sounding bt iems I’ve ever heard. The bose and the beoplay are a step behind in sq. For gym use and commuting I find them very good but for listening sessions I have a second pair of higher quality iems.



Intuitively, it makes sense that wired BT > true wireless BT in terms of SQ. I just don't feel like the market is mature enough for good true wireless IEM's - all options are less than ideal. Bose SS has poor isolation, Bragi Dash and Jabra Elite 65t don't have good SQ according to r/headphones. Also they're expensive.


----------



## clerkpalmer

Hyperfluxe said:


> Intuitively, it makes sense that wired BT > true wireless BT in terms of SQ. I just don't feel like the market is mature enough for good true wireless IEM's - all options are less than ideal. Bose SS has poor isolation, Bragi Dash and Jabra Elite 65t don't have good SQ according to r/headphones. Also they're expensive.



If you are looking for an endgame all for one I agree with you. Seems like the market has focused on sports use and connection stability first and sq is lagging behind. Hopefully the next round will up the ante on sq.


----------



## bruddah (May 14, 2018)

clerkpalmer said:


> If you are looking for an endgame all for one I agree with you. Seems like the market has focused on sports use and connection stability first and sq is lagging behind. Hopefully the next round will up the ante on sq.



So are you saying that I shouldn’t pull the trigger? I’m currently using the Xiaomi Hybrid Pro and really like their sound but wanna get rid of the wire. I was thinking of maybe getting the SE215 wireless or the ma750 instead. But I kind of wanna hear em before I pull the trigger. See what the hype is about ya know? But I like the idea of a totally wireless headphone.

Ugh decisions...


----------



## Hyperfluxe

It depends on whether you absolutely need to go true wireless. It's not essential for me but it does increase my quality of life in the gym when lifting. I'd rather wait for the market to mature before committing $250+ for a less than ideal pair. The Bose SS was so close to what I wanted but the poor sound isolation due to the drivers sticking out killed it for me. I pulled the trigger on the Adv. Model 3, the only issue I foresee is the volume control pod and wire getting in the way when bench pressing but I think I can move it to the side.


----------



## handwander

Newish on the JP market, hearable lab flapfit. https://www.hearablelab.com/flapfit


>


----------



## MIBUK (May 18, 2018)

Have had my Earin M-2’s for a few days and so far, I’m very happy. They’re very small! The design is typical Swedish, which means it’s stylish. The touch controls work very well for me, but of course it’s not 100%.

Sound wise, they have a natural sound to me. In other words, they seem to honour the Producer’s intended mix. Some people have said that there’s not enough bass, but some have improved this with different comply tips and of course if you predominantly use Spotify, it has a built in equaliser to fix that.

Battery life seems okay, but I need to use them more to gauge that. It’s supposed to be up to 4 hours with 12 hours in total via the cylindrical charger. There are lights for each ear piece to show their charge status and 3 lights on the charger externally as well. There’s no indicator on the iPhone to show battery level, but you can open the Earin app to see that, although, that seems a bit odd. You just see a headphones symbol when connected on the iPhone.

I’ve had a couple of times where the sound seems to flutter, but in general, the connection works well. I used them in the gym and they stayed in my ears using their smallest tips while running on a treadmill for 30mins.

When you stop the music, you can have sound pass through activated and in general it works, but I have nothing to compare with, so it might not be as good as others.

The app that you download is basic, but allows you to add gain (volume increase), Active pass through and balance left to right and vice versa.

I found the setup process to be a bit odd, but then again, maybe I was too keen to get started. I should have charged them up properly first I guess. There’s no right or left bud. It just knows.

On the odd occasion, the sound came through on just one bud. But by tapping the other one, I would then get stereo. Again, this could be user error on my part.

I watched YouTube and Netflix. On YouTube there was a very tiny delay, but not enough to make it unwatchable. It was fine. On Netflix, it was perfect.

No comment on receiving call quality. That isn’t a use I would normally use these for.

So overall, I’m very pleased with them. We’ll see how they perform over the coming weeks, but on initial use, it looks very promising. The size is the biggest surprise for me. You barely notice them in your ears.

As a KS backer, I got them for €199, but their RRP is €249. As I understand, they’re currently out of stock, but signup at their website if you want to get notified when new stock arrives. They’re now owned by Will.I.Am, so their future looks bright.


----------



## clerkpalmer

The Jabra Elite Active have popped up as a Best Buy exclusive.  I've tried three times to order them but BB website sucks so bad it keeps freezing and crashing.


----------



## david8613

the Jabra elite 65t active are finally available in my area, going to pick them up after work.

https://www.bestbuy.com/site/jabra-...phones-titanium-black/6252312.p?skuId=6252312


----------



## david8613 (May 21, 2018)

I got lucky when I first looked at it on best buy online they had a price of 170.00 so I printed it out and I tried to order it and the site glitched and price changed to 189.99! I took the print out to best buy and they had to honor it but they didn't have it in stock so they will be delivered on the 25th. Anyone want buy a set of samsung iconx 2018 with brand new comply tips? I'll be posting these on the forums soon.


----------



## AlwaysForward

Agree with some of the recent comparison: Bose knocked it out of the park with the SSF.

Also: re left ear drops: I've noticed it seems to come From outside interference? They never drop inside but there are areas outside where when I regularly walk through the same area, the left bud gets a quick signal drop. 

However, the connection seems bulletproof inside the gym for me.


----------



## tomwoo

david8613 said:


> I got lucky when I first looked at it on best buy online they had a price of 170.00 so I printed it out and I tried to order it and the site glitched and price changed to 189.99! I took the print out to best buy and they had to honor it but they didn't have it in stock so they will be delivered on the 25th. Anyone want buy a set of samsung iconx 2018 with brand new comply tips? I'll be posting these on the forums soon.


Does Active 65t justify the $20 increase from regular 65t?


----------



## david8613

I think so, much better sweat and dust proof protection, salty sweat can damage headphones pretty quick. if you plan on using for gym which I do I would get the active version plus it has motion detection to use with exercise apps to keep track of reps, miles ran stuff like that. if your just using casually, not working out then just get the normal 65t model, they are excellent!


----------



## kalien34

david8613 said:


> I think so, much better sweat and dust proof protection, salty sweat can damage headphones pretty quick. if you plan on using for gym which I do I would get the active version plus it has motion detection to use with exercise apps to keep track of reps, miles ran stuff like that. if your just using casually, not working out then just get the normal 65t model, they are excellent!



How about fit? Do the Actives fit better than the normal 65T? I tried on the normal version, while they fit ok and never fell off my ears, they don't give me the safe fit feeling and from time to time it bugs me to fear they might fall off.


----------



## david8613 (May 24, 2018)

They should fit the same,  I thought the the 65t fit great in my ears, and I never felt they would get loose or fall out even while working out. Just follow instructions on how to insert them there is a trick to it, you should be golden. I will have more info. Today when my 65t active arrive.


----------



## Tommy C

kalien34 said:


> How about fit? Do the Actives fit better than the normal 65T? I tried on the normal version, while they fit ok and never fell off my ears, they don't give me the safe fit feeling and from time to time it bugs me to fear they might fall off.



I have the Jabra Elite Sport. They fit very well and have those runner wings and finish. 

Sound wise they are more bassy than the 65t but to me the fit is better.  
They are plenty loud and clear with a bit of rolled off treble so no harshness there. 
For on-the-go they are a solid choice. 

For the gym they have the heart rate monitor and the fitness app, which is a nice addition. 

Check out Amazon they had them on sale for a while but not sure if deal is still active.


----------



## Tommy C

Deleted. Double post.


----------



## david8613 (May 25, 2018)

I agree with tommy c, I also own the Jabra elite sport I reach for those more than my iconx 2018 because the bass and over all sound quality is much better. even though I love the touch controls on the iconx 2018. there is always a trade off somewhere. when I had the regular Jabra 65t those were tops In my rotation, a little less bass than the Jabra elite sport but with  better overall sound and much better controls.


----------



## tomwoo

david8613 said:


> They should fit the same,  I thought the the 65t fit great in my ears, and I never felt they would get loose or fall out even while working out. Just follow instructions on how to insert them there is a trick to it, you should be golden. I will have more info. Today when my 65t active arrive.


Please let us know your first impressions!


----------



## tomwoo (May 24, 2018)

david8613 said:


> I think so, much better sweat and dust proof protection, salty sweat can damage headphones pretty quick. if you plan on using for gym which I do I would get the active version plus it has motion detection to use with exercise apps to keep track of reps, miles ran stuff like that. if your just using casually, not working out then just get the normal 65t model, they are excellent!


I think it's a no-brainer to go with Active if they sound the same $20 for extra sweat protection and activity tracking seems reasonable.


----------



## RedSky0

Refurbished Jabra 65t for $119 on eBay (US) if anyone is interested:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Jabra-Elit...e=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649


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## david8613 (May 25, 2018)

I got them charged them up, listening to them now giving a chance for burn in before I say anything about sound. still has that great fit. materials feel exactly like the normal 65t, I was hoping they would have put on some type of non slip surface coating for the active version, because in my opinion the case and buds feel a bit slippery in hand, the Jabra sport elite and Samsung iconx 2018 have a nice coating so the don't feel slippery in hand. the app is very different from what I remembered when I had the normal Jabra 65t, can someone verify this or did they just update the app completely from when the 65t was first released? eq is great in the app, every bud should have this feature, but no quick pre sets, I think the original 65t app had some pre sets. another weird thing is on the Jabra website  they show the active version with the case and buds in a sharp blue color, mine are black and came from best buy, I wonder why?


----------



## ImSyko

david8613 said:


> I got them charged them up, listening to them now giving a chance for burn in before I say anything about sound. still has that great fit. materials feel exactly like the normal 65t, I was hoping they would have put on some type of non slip surface coating for the active version, because in my opinion the case and buds feel a bit slippery in hand, the Jabra sport elite and Samsung iconx 2018 have a nice coating so the don't feel slippery in hand. the app is very different from what I remembered when I had the normal Jabra 65t, can someone verify this or did they just update the app completely from when the 65t was first released? eq is great in the app, every bud should have this feature, but no quick pre sets, I think the original 65t app had some pre sets. another weird thing is on the Jabra website  they show the active version with the case and buds in a sharp blue color, mine are black and came from best buy, I wonder why?



The black color might be a best buy exclusive? Online, Best Buy has a 'Only @ Best Buy' tag. Amazon looks to have the blue color.


----------



## david8613

so far so good, sound is excellent like the original, still burning them in. I did notice making phone calls the voices sound a little thinner from what I remember when I had the regular 65t, but I see the active version of the app has a setting to adjust treble and bass for my calls, I haven't had a chance to play with that feature yet. for some reason they also feel a little bigger to me than the regular 65t from what I remember but on the Jabra website spec sheet measurements are the same for both, maybe they are shaped a little different, I don't know, but they are very comfortable.


----------



## Hyperfluxe

In general, wired Bluetooth IEM's sound better than true wireless IEM's right? I'm wondering how the 65t's compare to the Advanced Model 3.


----------



## nc8000

Don’t see why they would sound better but they get better and more stable connection with no slave unit drop outs


----------



## clerkpalmer

In my experience, the truly wireless headphones to date are step or two (or three) below wired BT for purposes of SQ.


----------



## david8613 (May 26, 2018)

I have the jaybird x3 which are rated very good sound quality wise, and in my opinion the jabra 65t can hang with them in sound quality easily. I have been in the bluetooth game since the beginning and we finally are seeing some decent truewireless these days, I am happy with what i hear, its not audiophile great but still very enjoyable. I dont use wired headsets anymore.

Jabra elite 65t and active, samsung iconx 2018, jabra elite sport,  jams ultra do not suffer from drop outs.


----------



## clerkpalmer

Annoying that Best Buy does not have the 65t active at their brick and mortar stores. My Sony wf-sp700n shipped from amazon on Wednesday via snail mail. No one seems to have them in stock so I just have to wait. I am interested in them because they have anc.


----------



## david8613

I am very interested in your thoughts on the Sony wf-sp700n when u get them.


----------



## tonehk

Hi, for anybody interested in testing different eartips, spinfit have released a few new silicon tips. I used to use CP100 and CP800 and found them effective for giving a good seal for some wired IEM. New ones include CP 100Z, 145, 155, 350. these cover quite a few new wireless brands including Jaybird and Jabra and others.  i haven't tested these but you can take a look.

https://www.spinfiteartip.com/product-list


----------



## tomwoo

Active 65t is out of stock everywhere. I guess Jabra's production hasn't caught up with the demand...


----------



## david8613 (May 26, 2018)

Brought some of those spinfits for my jabra elite sport, jabra elite 65t active, samsung iconx 2018. Currently using comply, Thanks.


----------



## mikp

what size eartips should I look for on the 65t that fits in the case? Currently using the largest stock ones and those fit fine.


----------



## david8613 (May 26, 2018)

You should get what size that fits your ear canal, and see if it fits the case. Buy the ones that say specifically for truly wireless you should be fine. Those are cut a different way to fit the case, I have comply tips for my samsung iconx 2018 and they fit fine. Best buy had the 65t active for only one day in my area, they were gone in minutes, this happened with samsung iconx 2018 also when released. Glad I grabbed mine preorder when I did. Truewireless is catching on.


----------



## tkalee

Hi, thanks so much for the review. I've been thinking of getting this for ages. Are you able to answer a question?

The original Earin buds have a background hiss that means I never use for listening in a quiet room. It spoils anything with low-volume passages, e.g. classical music. Perfectly fine for the daily commute, though.

Does the Earin M2 have that background hiss?

Thanks again for the review!





kevinscottcaja said:


> *UPDATE:* Added some more images and some info regarding the NFMI connectivity comparison with Jabra 65t.
> 
> Hi all! So I purchased the Earin M-2 here in Hong Kong, they are available here for a few months now so I decided to pull the trigger. I've been using them for one week and here are my thoughts.
> 
> ...


----------



## kevinscottcaja

tkalee said:


> Hi, thanks so much for the review. I've been thinking of getting this for ages. Are you able to answer a question?
> 
> The original Earin buds have a background hiss that means I never use for listening in a quiet room. It spoils anything with low-volume passages, e.g. classical music. Perfectly fine for the daily commute, though.
> 
> ...


Hi! there is a very faint hiss indeed when I tried playing a fully silent WAV file from my iPhone but barely noticeable in a very quiet room. There is no audible hiss when playing music on very low listening volume, I just noticed that as well today. I made a silent 30 second WAV file and synced it in my iPhone to test it. Then again, I would recommend the Earin M-2 if you're planning on using it for your daily commute. But if you mainly use your IEMs in a silent room and you're stationary, I'd still recommend a fully wired setup.


----------



## tkalee

kevinscottcaja said:


> Hi! there is a very faint hiss indeed when I tried playing a fully silent WAV file from my iPhone but barely noticeable in a very quiet room. There is no audible hiss when playing music on very low listening volume, I just noticed that as well today. I made a silent 30 second WAV file and synced it in my iPhone to test it. Then again, I would recommend the Earin M-2 if you're planning on using it for your daily commute. But if you mainly use your IEMs in a silent room and you're stationary, I'd still recommend a fully wired setup.



Wow, thanks for the quick reply! Looking forward to getting these.


----------



## RedSky0

david8613 said:


> Brought some of those spinfits for my jabra elite sport, jabra elite 65t active, samsung iconx 2018. Currently using comply, Thanks.



Could I ask which tips you bought to fit the 65t?


----------



## david8613 (May 29, 2018)

I have not used them yet, but the model I have is the spin fit cp100z, that is supposed to be for truewireless, there is a newer model the cp 350 that have a shorter/flatter design like comply tips that are also for truewireless. it looks like the cp 350 are not available yet.


----------



## Edric Li (May 30, 2018)

This post might be the one many folks on this thread is looking for...


A sound and fit comparison among:

Bragi Dash Pro
Samsung IconX 2018
Erato Apollo 7S
Sony WF-1000X
B&O E8
PSB M4U TW1

All connected to Sony WM1Z




 


Best sound: Samsung IconX 2018
Great tonal balance, great subbass. Mid is colored, with an emphasis on 1-2kHz, making vocals sound thin (personally I don't mind). Treble may sound harsh to some, not because of quantity but (relatively) low quality. I am pretty sure Samsung is targeting the FR of AKG N5005 with ref filter on this one.

Bragi Dash Pro: Typical 1BA sound - more midbass than subbass, overly forward mids, no treble extension... you name it.

Erato Apollo 7S: Great tonal balance and soundstaging. It is the closest to the IconX in terms of tuning, but overall sounds veiled and blanketed.

Sony WF-1000X: Transparency on par with that of the IconX, but lacking subbass. Great quality highs. Mid may sound forward to some.

B&O E8: The worst among all. Sounds thin and lifeless. Lacking bass and body. 

PSB M4U TW1: This thing doesn't even work. It blasts at the loudest volume and is not adjustable via either the earphones or the WM1Z.


Best, secure fit: Samsung IconX 2018, Sony WF-1000X
(Notice that I find the best fit using all the silicon tips in my inventory. I do not use foam tips.)
They stay firmly in my ears no matter how hard I shake my head.

Stays, but not as secure: Erato Apollo 7S
Not gonna fall out in daily use, but when it is slightly not all the way in, bass leakage may be a problem.

Bragi Dash Pro & B&O E8: They fall out even when I move my Jaw.

PSB M4U TW1: I try to like the earhook, but I just cannot get a secure insertion.


----------



## nc8000

Edric Li said:


> This post might be the one many folks on this thread is looking for...
> 
> 
> A sound and fit comparison among:
> ...



Obviously your experience so can’t be argued, but what you describe about the E8 is so far from my experience that either all the others must be absolutely stellar out of this world or your experience is totally useless (at least for me).


----------



## Edric Li

nc8000 said:


> Obviously your experience so can’t be argued, but what you describe about the E8 is so far from my experience that either all the others must be absolutely stellar out of this world or your experience is totally useless (at least for me).



See this is where this hobby confuses me. Suppose you like your E8, why would you prefer your Z1R over an ATH at this price point? Suppose you like your JH13, why would you prefer E8 over the Bragi Dash Pro? Suppose you like the Z1R, why would you prefer JH13 over a Xelento? Things just don't add up. :/


----------



## nc8000

Edric Li said:


> See this is where this hobby confuses me. Suppose you like your E8, why would you prefer your Z1R over an ATH at this price point? Suppose you like your JH13, why would you prefer E8 over the Bragi Dash Pro? Suppose you like the Z1R, why would you prefer JH13 over a Xelento? Things just don't add up. :/



Well I don’t technically know if I would prefer the E8 to any of the others as I have not tried any of them. The E8 is good enough for my on the go use that I have no desire to try any others and I certainly dont find the E8, thin, lifeless or lacking bass, perhaps you simply don’t have a good fit and isolation which your statement about them falling out when you move the jaw also indicated. 

The Z1R just hit me and I fell in love with the sound, it is a sound for just immersing me in the music and enjoying it rather than analysing music (I sold a HE-6) though some times it has a little too much bass for me. I also absolutely love the look and feel of them which to me also is an important parameter. 

The JH13 I’ve had for over 8 years and in that time my preference has slowly moved a bit away from the neutral reference sound but I still love them and they have plenty bass when it is in the music.


----------



## Edric Li

nc8000 said:


> Well I don’t technically know if I would prefer the E8 to any of the others as I have not tried any of them.



There we go. IMO there is no absolute definition of thin/warm/bright/transparent, etc. They are all comparative, and that's the point of doing a comparison review. Maybe to you the others really are absolutely stellar out of this world. That's how big of a difference I am hearing right now. 



nc8000 said:


> perhaps you simply don’t have a good fit and isolation which your statement about them falling out when you move the jaw also indicated



Agreed. I cannot get a good, firm fit and isolation with the E8 after trying out all the silicon tips at my disposal. But the fit it good enough and my room is quiet enough to evaluate the sound. I know exactly when the fit is too bad to give a sound review, and this is not the case here.


----------



## noxa

I used to follow this thread then well lost pace, I’ve just got the Bose Soundsport free but wondering if the the Sony would have been the better option, these will be primarily used for weight training if that matters.


----------



## clerkpalmer

noxa said:


> I used to follow this thread then well lost pace, I’ve just got the Bose Soundsport free but wondering if the the Sony would have been the better option, these will be primarily used for weight training if that matters.


You made a good choice with the bose. They are very good for your stated purpose. I literally just received the wf-sp700n. I’ll report back with my thoughts in a day or two and within your return window for sure.


----------



## noxa

That’s perfect thank you! The issue I’m finding is the isolation is poor and I’m getting the gyms eurobeat garbage bleeding through at times, and although the fit of the Bose is immaculate imo, the fact they stick out the sheer weigh makes them move, never near to fall out but the sensation is odd when trying to concentrate.


----------



## noxa

Well my Bose Soundsport Free are sadly goon back after only a week, I’ve used them exclusively in the gym and imo the sound is more than acceptable, in fact I fully enjoy the sound, of anything I’d like the bass a bit stronger. 

The fit to me is fantastic, but the way they stick out leaves a feeling of a downwards dragging which although they’ll never come lose or free just feels very awkward to me.

Connection wise, they’ve been impeccable, never a loss, blip anything so on that front I’m super impressed.

Now the kicker...

If you’re a runner where hearing ambient noise ie cars beeping etc then the design is pretty genius actually as it’s the best of both worlds BUT for actual gym use imo they’re terribly flawed. At anything less than full blast the environment sound they let in is totally unnaceptable and unfit for purpose, I want to love them as they do so much right but the weight hanging outside the ear and the poor isolation means for me and I suspect many others they’re just not a true gym headphone. 

Will be buying the new Sony when it’s available and report back with a comparison.


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## clerkpalmer (May 31, 2018)

noxa said:


> That’s perfect thank you! The issue I’m finding is the isolation is poor and I’m getting the gyms eurobeat garbage bleeding through at times, and although the fit of the Bose is immaculate imo, the fact they stick out the sheer weigh makes them move, never near to fall out but the sensation is odd when trying to concentrate.



If your gym is loud, that is a problem.  It forces you turn them up to unsafe levels.


noxa said:


> Well my Bose Soundsport Free are sadly goon back after only a week, I’ve used them exclusively in the gym and imo the sound is more than acceptable, in fact I fully enjoy the sound, of anything I’d like the bass a bit stronger.
> 
> The fit to me is fantastic, but the way they stick out leaves a feeling of a downwards dragging which although they’ll never come lose or free just feels very awkward to me.
> 
> ...



I got the Sony's yesterday and was able to give them a spin at the gym.  Initial impressions are as follows:

1.  SQ is very nice but it requires use of the App which likely is a battery drain.  The app has two components:  (1) an equalizer but with presets only (no manual mode) and (2) a selection of whether to use best sound quality or stability.  I didn't love any of the presets but settled on Bright and Vocal as my favorites.  Any bass boost is overwhelming and many of the presets boost the base.  The sound signature is V shaped and fun clearly tuned for an exercise crowd.  Plenty of punch and energy.  Not much in the way of soundstage but that's to be expected.  I do think the Bose present a little more open soundstage with some width.  The Sony's are in between your ears only.  I have tested the Bose, Beoplay, Jaybird, PSB, Onkyo, Erato, and Jabra (Elite Sports) and I would rank the Sony's at the upper middle of the ranks.  I personally prefer the Bose SQ but it's not a huge difference.  The Sony's are an upgrade to Jaybird in terms of SQ.  Perhaps slightly below the PSB but again very close.  Overall, these sound very good but are not game changing.

2.  Fit.  Rock solid.  Not much more needs to be said.  I think these would survive a sweaty run no problem without slippage.

3.  Connection.  I didn't wander far from my phone so I can't comment on this yet.  I did get one slight drop/shift when walking from the machine to the water station.  It was brief but it surprised me because the Bose have virtually never dropped out on me.

4.  Features.  The app, ANC and transparency mode are all nice features to have.  I did test the ANC and found that it works but it is nothing like the ANC offered by Bose on other models.  Also, compared to the Bose, they seal so much better I really didn't even need the ANC in the gym.  I probably will leave this off in hopes of saving batter life.

5.  Battery Life.  This could be a trouble spot.  Advertised for 3 hours.  Well, after 30 minutes of cardio, the meter was down 1/3 but that may just be a software issue.  I will rarely use this for more than an hour but if they don't get at least 3 hours, that could be an issue for many of you.  The ANC would be nice on a flight but if battery is only 2-3 hours, it defeats the purpose.

6.  Design.  They aren't the prettiest form factor but I think they look a little less dorky than the bose which are truly awful.  This isn't a big issue for me but I am jealous of those sleek form factor of the Jabra Active 65t.   These are sleeker than the Bose.  The charging case is awful.  Feels flimsy and likely to break.  I'm a little surprised that Sony didn't do a better job here.

Overall, I think these are a very nice entry into the category.  I probably still prefer the Bose due to slightly better SQ but if your intended use is a noisy environment these would definitely be the better choice. These offer a better package of features over the PSB which are very fussy to operate.   I have not tried the Jabra Active 65t which is probably the next closest competitor to these but I do prefer the SQ on the Sony to the Elite Sports which I thought were very muddy and average sounding.  The Sony blow the Jaybird away.

I'll post more impressions as they get more use.


----------



## Colors

It's very pricy, but the AKG N5005 which comes with a BT cable (and I've demo'd it in-store) and has amazing SQ. It's extremely detailed and coherent and is on par with my Empire Ears Bravado + pure silver cable in terms of SQ (Bravado has more sub-bass, but the N5005 has sufficient and controlled bass) and this is with the BT cable on. I haven't even tried the wired cables it comes with (3.5mm and 2.5mm).


----------



## david8613 (Jun 1, 2018)

I never used the e8 but I always heard good things from other users. I think we are seeing a very good example of not getting proper seal with the e8. I had the same problem with the Jabra elite sport, the supplied tips sucked so bad, no seal, the sound was thin and trebly, I couldn't believe this headset cost this much and sounds like this. I went into to my box of spare tips, and I was lucky and I found the perfect set that gave me a perfect seal, wow! huge difference, nice solid bass, great mids, nice sparkly highs. believe me the slightest leak will destroy the sound of any in ear headset completely, you have to have a perfect seal. I tested this again recently, I just picked up some spinfit tips in size large to try out with my Jabra elite sport, terrible! they are just ever so slightly small in my ears, I kind of get a seal but not that locked in seal. the sound was very bad, so I put back in my other tips now the jabras are sounding wonderful again. I sometimes moistening the tips this helps with lock down, turning clockwise or counter clockwise with them in your ears helps too, comply tips work also but I feel they eat the treble frequency for breakfast, they work but I think silicone effects sound less.


----------



## dantesan (Jun 1, 2018)

I love my 65t's more than any wireless headphone I've yet heard. (Yeah, including over-ears.) 

I still need to hear AT DSR9BT's though. The 65t's kick the crap out of Sony's and AKG's recent wireless stuff though.


----------



## mikp (Jun 2, 2018)

For me the Jabra 65t have been very good. Probably walking 8-10 hours a week with hearthrough enabled to max and it sounds very good. No static or strange electronic distortion that people complain about on other brands.

But was looking for some cheaper tws for use in bad weather or not be so careful about.

Stumbled on this one:







What interested me was it had skip and previous song AND volume adjustment. Minus is no multipoint and you need the case to turn them on.

Anyways ordered them so hopefully they will hold connection between them better than the crappy qcy t1 pro.

found a review here


----------



## Tommy C

david8613 said:


> I agree with tommy c, I also own the Jabra elite sport I reach for those more than my iconx 2018 because the bass and over all sound quality is much better. even though I love the touch controls on the iconx 2018. there is always a trade off somewhere. when I had the regular Jabra 65t those were tops In my rotation, a little less bass than the Jabra elite sport but with  better overall sound and much better controls.



I did the firmware update (5.3.0) to the Jabra Elite Sport and the sound has changed.
Generally less bass, in tracks were bass is present it’s still slamming but much less bloated, not as warm, better imaging and soundstage with better separation.
I can now easily pickup placement, left-right, back and front. Treble has a bit more sparkle, this one is easy for me becsue I’m treble sensitive in the left ear and I can definitely feel it more now, may not be an issue for most people.


----------



## MulberryMadness

Colors said:


> It's very pricy, but the AKG N5005 which comes with a BT cable (and I've demo'd it in-store) and has amazing SQ. It's extremely detailed and coherent


 Pre-order for August @a cool $1k! No fine tuning app?

Luv the hyperbole though

*Reference Class 5-driver configuration in-ear headphones with customizable sound*


                  "AKG N5005 is the epitome of pure and detailed _*studio sound reproduction*_"

Review: https://www.techradar.com/reviews/akg-n5005

For that kind of 'spare change', I'll wait for Audeze to make a cable BT iSine10/20...iirc iSine are pretty efficient, so should be doable...be even better if they could incorporate active NC, lol.

Till then, I wait with baited breath for the Sennheiser true wireless IEM 'Orpheus' @$50k/set (no Russian tubes though...but there is a tuning app for that AR simulation, be on the Apple App store any day now...n guess what Admn will pee his pants over it, saying how he has to have it after visiting Senn labs). n then the 'trickle' down follow up version Senn always does...the high-end MiniMe version for only $5K.

Funny how we don't hear about ppl losing/having mishaps(accidentally flushed down the toilet in the act of getting up from taking a dump), these true wireless IEM's that will soon cost more than an iphoneX+ ...need insurance like Apple Care+


----------



## david8613

mikp said:


> For me the Jabra 65t have been very good. Probably walking 8-10 hours a week with hearthrough enabled to max and it sounds very good. No static or strange electronic distortion that people complain about on other brands.
> 
> But was looking for some cheaper tws for use in bad weather or not be so careful about.
> 
> ...


----------



## mikp

waiting for the agent to ship it. So far they have been pretty fast.


----------



## defbear

I have ordered a set of the IQBuds Boost. I did a search and came up with info on the IQBuds but not the new Boost model. I will report back in a week or so.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

The 65t Elite is CRAZY nice sounding for a fully wireless. 

I just have some static in the left side. Gonna replace them tomorrow and see if the second set is better.


----------



## david8613 (Jun 5, 2018)

SomeGuyDude said:


> The 65t Elite is CRAZY nice sounding for a fully wireless.
> 
> I just have some static in the left side. Gonna replace them tomorrow and see if the second set is better.





you should not have any static at all, the 65t are great you are going to love them, did you get the normal version or the active? the 65t dethroned my Samsung iconx 2018 for sound quality, and those were very good!


----------



## SomeGuyDude

david8613 said:


> you should not have any static at all, the 65t are great you are going to love them, did you get the normal version or the active? the 65t dethroned my Samsung iconx 2018 for sound quality, and those were very good!



The normal. Two pairs in a row had left-side static, which is a shame because wow they were comfortable and sounded nice.

I swapped out for the Bose Soundsport Free. Also fantastic sounding, not nearly as comfortable and secure feeling as the 65t, but operation is smoother and hey there's no hiss. They just look RIDICULOUS.

That's probably just my bad luck, I'm not knocking Jabra since lots of people love them, and I really liked the hear-through mode.


----------



## Tommy C

I’m using the Jabra Elite Sport, zero issues, static nor connectivity issues. 
Based on my experience and a coworker with the 65t the Elite Sport has a more reliable connection for some strange reason.
They also sound different, but that’s a another discussion altogether.


----------



## david8613 (Jun 5, 2018)

SomeGuyDude said:


> The normal. Two pairs in a row had left-side static, which is a shame because wow they were comfortable and sounded nice.
> 
> I swapped out for the Bose Soundsport Free. Also fantastic sounding, not nearly as comfortable and secure feeling as the 65t, but operation is smoother and hey there's no hiss. They just look RIDICULOUS.
> 
> That's probably just my bad luck, I'm not knocking Jabra since lots of people love them, and I really liked the hear-through mode.




try the active 65t, I would try the opposite again. I have both elite sport and 65t active and Samsung iconx 2018 all three have the best connectivity of all I have used not issues.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

david8613 said:


> try the active 65t, I would try the opposite again. I have both elite sport and 65t active and Samsung iconx 2018 all three have the best connectivity of all I have used not issues.



They connected just fine, the left side just hissed for some reason. If I can snag a pair of Actives I will. The bose are damn nice, though. Less isolation, I admit but that's not a bad thing for running purposes.


----------



## clerkpalmer

david8613 said:


> try the active 65t, I would try the opposite again. I have both elite sport and 65t active and Samsung iconx 2018 all three have the best connectivity of all I have used not issues.



Would be interested in your impressions of the SQ in the Elite Active v. Soundsport Free.


----------



## Hyperfluxe

Has anyone tried both the 65t and Adv Model 3? I'm wondering how they compare in terms of SQ.


----------



## SomeGuyDude (Jun 5, 2018)

Someone with a 65t updated to the latest firmware please do me a favor and play some music then hit pause. Tell me if there's a hiss in your left ear for a second or two.

I ask because I did indeed pick up the Active and IT ALSO has this issue. There's no way I got three lemons. Something is up.


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## david8613 (Jun 7, 2018)

I never brought the soundsport free, too big, too bulky imo, also not being in ear, "no true sound isolation" is a no no for me, I had a pair of Plantronics a long time ago with this design and I did not like it at all, I want to be totally sealed and only hear music, not environment. I do hear slight intermittent hiss sound when my music gets paused or when I go from one sound preference to another sound preference in the app. but its very slight, comes and goes very quickly, and you never hear that during music play back so i am ok with it, not a big deal to me.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

david8613 said:


> I never brought the soundsport free, too big, too bulky imo, also not being in ear, "no true sound isolation" is a no no for me, I had a pair of Plantronics a long time ago with this design and I did not like it at all, I want to be totally sealed and only hear music, not environment. I do hear slight intermentent static when my music gets paused or when I go from one sound preference to another sound preference in the app. but its very slight, comes and goes very quickly, and you never hear that during music play back so i am ok with it, not a big deal to me.



Yeah that's what irks me. I know it's not a big deal, but when music has gaps it shows up and boy it's annoying. I'll chalk that up to a firmware fix because the Elite Active is just so goddamn good. 

Will be taking them on a run paired up with a Galaxy Sport so we'll see how that goes.


----------



## david8613 (Jun 7, 2018)

Cool keep us updated.
How many pairs of bluetooth headphones do you guys own? I was going through all my headsets and I was thinking about down sizing and getting rid of some of them.  I just can't!!! They all sound very good and have things I love. What was suprising was my oldest set i still own the jaybird x3 which I haven't used in months are still excellent, sound great powerful, the app is so good, so many sound profiles to choose that really work. Samsung iconx 2018 sound great, Great touch controls, on board memory, great app, jabra elite sport, also sound great, great app, completely water proof, bullet proof build, jabra 65t active great sound, controls, fit, app. All have great BT connection. i had the Sony wf1000x and they sounded so good, noise cancelling feature worked well, but battery life was terrible so I didnt keep them. The new Sony are available I have no interest in because battery life is still low. The only ones left I'm interested in now are b&o e8 but they are a bit out of my budget. Sorry for rambling but we are getting some good stuff now, cant wait to see what is coming down the pipe.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

Currently I just have the one, but I've fiddled with a bunch. I have honestly no interest in the e8 just because a big reason for me is fitness and no way I'm sticking $300 non-sweatproof headphones in.


----------



## david8613

e8 are out then, I cant believe a 300.00 headset not sweat proof, that should be a standard feature now a days...


----------



## SomeGuyDude (Jun 7, 2018)

Yeah, the e8 appears to be more of an "executive audiophile" kind of thing. I don't think the Sony WF-1000X are sweatproof either. I don't wish they didn't do noise-cancellation. Just make them seal well enough, because I swear ANC just makes stuff sound weird.

The Jabra are winning to my ears. That hiss is annoying but I do think it's just a firmware quirk that can be solved. They sound great, you can EQ them directly, the "hearthrough" feature is amazing, they're ridiculously comfortable and secure in the ears. Yeah, the Bose sounded better, but they didn't seal to speak of, felt wobbly, and for some reason calls are designed to come through one ear only.

EDIT: I looked up the Sony WF-700n. I might pick up a pair of those today to test. Will update.


----------



## ma2k5

SomeGuyDude said:


> Yeah, the e8 appears to be more of an "executive audiophile" kind of thing. I don't think the Sony WF-1000X are sweatproof either. I don't wish they didn't do noise-cancellation. Just make them seal well enough, because I swear ANC just makes stuff sound weird.
> 
> The Jabra are winning to my ears. That hiss is annoying but I do think it's just a firmware quirk that can be solved. They sound great, you can EQ them directly, the "hearthrough" feature is amazing, they're ridiculously comfortable and secure in the ears. Yeah, the Bose sounded better, but they didn't seal to speak of, felt wobbly, and for some reason calls are designed to come through one ear only.
> 
> EDIT: I looked up the Sony WF-700n. I might pick up a pair of those today to test. Will update.



I was looking at the WF-700n but a bit disappointed by the 3 hour battery life.

Btw if you could advise, I can order the 65t active at £169, or get the normal version for £139. Is the £30 difference worth it? Is the fit really more secure in the active, or is there any indication you can see that they are better made (for longevity?).


----------



## SomeGuyDude

ma2k5 said:


> I was looking at the WF-700n but a bit disappointed by the 3 hour battery life.
> 
> Btw if you could advise, I can order the 65t active at £169, or get the normal version for £139. Is the £30 difference worth it? Is the fit really more secure in the active, or is there any indication you can see that they are better made (for longevity?).



The battery life does kinda suck, but they're really made just for workouts, and I think as long as you aren't doing marathons you should be fine. I'll see how they sound in a little bit.

Far as I can tell the only difference between the elite and active is the active has extra protection from moisture. They do feel a bit sturdier, but that's all.


----------



## david8613

The 65t active also has a very simple step counter in the app, the 65t active buds have motion sensors the regular 65t version does not have. I believe they will do more with those sensors in the future via the app.


----------



## ma2k5

david8613 said:


> The 65t active also has a very simple step counter in the app, the 65t active buds have motion sensors the regular 65t version does not have. I believe they will do more with those sensors in the future via the app.



I got an Apple watch for that I guess - plus having extra sensors makes me weary of buggy software and battery life. Either way not too interested in counters, never found them useful even on my watch.


----------



## albau (Jun 7, 2018)

If anybody interested, in E8 thread I've put a rather long comparo of Beoplay E8 and Jabra Elite 65t which I both still have. It's here at the end of page 22.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

First thing with the Sony: rock solid fit, perfect connection, easy app.

Second thing: boy these have a different sound. The bass is boosted (hence that XTRA BASS on the box), and you can't custom EQ, only use presets, but I found the "Mellow" preset has the Clear Bass at a -3 which helps. While I was listening to them, I kept thinking that the sp700n sounds too boomy, but then I went to the 65t and thought they sounded lifeless. So we're talking six of one and half a dozen of the other here. The lack of volume controls on the device is weird, but the noise cancellation is good and the ambient sound mode works incredibly well. It does that stupid "calls are in one earpiece" thing that I'm not enamoured with, though. 

I'm not sure which I'm keeping yet. The Sony is the frontrunner because I think the extra bass will help during workouts (and since I listen to rap while I exercise for the steady rhythm), but not 100% yet.


----------



## david8613 (Jun 8, 2018)

Just to be clear the 65t active its not just more moisture resistant its sweat resistant and sweat has salt and salt is very bad for electronics, I sweat a lot and work out a lot so this feature was very important to me. on a separate note the Jabra elite sport got a firmware update, it seemed pretty big a took a while to load up, it does sound a little better, I am going to test more to be sure, and check for any added features in app.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

As an update: The "relaxed" sound profile for the Sony, which looks like this:







Sounds about as good as they can get. And yes, that's a massive _minus NINE_ on their "Clear Bass" scale. It's far more balanced and hip hop still sounds crazy punchy. I think I like them quite a bit more than the Jabra, but I'm taking a week or so to A/B them and see which makes me want to put on the other.


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## albau (Jun 7, 2018)

albau said:


> If anybody interested, in E8 thread I've put a rather long comparo of Beoplay E8 and Jabra Elite 65t which I both still have. It's here at the end of page 22.


 The more I listen to E8 the more I appreciate their sound vs 65t. E8 are so much more spacious and detailed. Yesterday's FW update slightly improved Jabras but they still sound congested in comparison. But except for the sound and charging case 65t are better than E8 in most other respects (value, app, controls, mics, pairing). Both are comparable in terms of size/weight, fit/isolation and connection reliability. All those are decent, much better than I expected form pure wireless.


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## ma2k5 (Jun 7, 2018)

david8613 said:


> Just to be clear the 65t active its not just more moisture resistant its sweat resistant and sweat has salt and salt is very bad for electronics, I sweat a lot and work out a lot so this feature was very important to me. on a separate note the Jabra elite got a firmware update, it seemed pretty big a took a while to load up, it does sound a little better, I am going to test more to be sure, and check for any added features in app.



The non-active are IP55 and the active are IP56.

Both are sweat and even water resistant. The difference is that IP56 can handle high pressure water jet, while the IP55 can handle low pressure water jet.

Source: http://www.dsmt.com/resources/ip-rating-chart/

So both you can probably take to the shower even, although the IP56 you’d be more safe to with. I don’t think sweat is an issue with either of these.

Jabra advertise the Non-active versions as water and dust resistant and even provide 2 year warranty against such damage.

Which begs the question, why then make an active version? Maybe the different sporty look, the step counter and marketing spiel ? Apparently the active is more grippier too although I haven’t tested.

As it stands, even if you’re a heavy gym goer and sweat like a pig - IP55 is still more than you should ever need.


----------



## ma2k5

SomeGuyDude said:


> As an update: The "relaxed" sound profile for the Sony, which looks like this:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Interesting. Do you find the sound being good enough to make up for the lack of controls and a lower battery life?


----------



## clerkpalmer

ma2k5 said:


> Interesting. Do you find the sound being good enough to make up for the lack of controls and a lower battery life?



I do.  I have been using the Sony's exclusively for a week now and my impressions have improved.  First and foremost, I really enjoy the sound.  It took some getting used to as they are very bass heavy and that was an adjustment from the Bose which also do not lack in the bass department.  I agree with ma2k5 that the bass needs to be dialed down since it is overpowering.  Once you do that, the brightness improves and you have a very full sounding heading definitely tuned for "fun".  While I love the SQ and profile of the Bose, the Sony is nearly as good just in a different way.  Second, they are very comfortable.  They are in ears but they do not require you to jam them in there like the Elite Sports or Gear Icons.  They fit snuggly and offer good isolation without being painful or giving you a clogged head.  Some ambient sound comes in.  The ANC feature is really nice.  It definitely makes a difference.  For example, I use a fan in my basement when working out and the ANC kills all sound of the fan.  This allows me to listen at much lower volume levels than the Bose.  I rarely workout for more than say 75 minutes so battery life likely isn't an issue for me.  Finally, I have had no noticeable dropouts and the range seems fine.  The case is still a cheap disaster but it does it's job.  These are a very good option if you don't mind the form factor.


----------



## albau (Jun 7, 2018)

nc8000 said:


> Obviously your experience so can’t be argued, but what you describe about the E8 is so far from my experience that either all the others must be absolutely stellar out of this world or your experience is totally useless (at least for me).


 Agree. I also hear E8 totally different - very lively and spacious. Granted among listed wireless IEMs I tried only IconX (to me sound notch below E8). I also have Elite 65t (two notches down). Of course none of them can approach my beloved Westone 4 but E8 is the closest.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

ma2k5 said:


> Interesting. Do you find the sound being good enough to make up for the lack of controls and a lower battery life?



Not sure yet. I only got them today but I'll say this: the "which headphone do I miss" challenge was won handily by the Sony over the Jabra. The Sony are charging now and damn I really want to throw them in again. Three hours is definitely... uninspiring... but I'm not sure how much of that involves the ANC being on versus if I leave that off. That sound profile makes them sound MUCH more natural. Gotta put the volume a tad higher but the bass isn't sounding so boomy. I cannot imagine who's listening to these with the bass boost on.

The Bose just couldn't compete, unfortunately. Yeah they sounded great, but everything else was just ehhhh. Also I have never had _any_ portable device take that long to update. It was a solid hour.


----------



## bruddah

SomeGuyDude said:


> Not sure yet. I only got them today but I'll say this: the "which headphone do I miss" challenge was won handily by the Sony over the Jabra. The Sony are charging now and damn I really want to throw them in again. Three hours is definitely... uninspiring... but I'm not sure how much of that involves the ANC being on versus if I leave that off. That sound profile makes them sound MUCH more natural. Gotta put the volume a tad higher but the bass isn't sounding so boomy. I cannot imagine who's listening to these with the bass boost on.
> 
> The Bose just couldn't compete, unfortunately. Yeah they sounded great, but everything else was just ehhhh. Also I have never had _any_ portable device take that long to update. It was a solid hour.




Question: Which ones go into the ears deeper, the Jabra Elite 65t (or active) or the Sony?


----------



## clerkpalmer

bruddah said:


> Question: Which ones go into the ears deeper, the Jabra Elite 65t (or active) or the Sony?



My experience is with the elite sport and as between the elite sport and Sony the Sony is more shallow.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

bruddah said:


> Question: Which ones go into the ears deeper, the Jabra Elite 65t (or active) or the Sony?



The Sont wf-sp700n goes deeper, but not by a ton. Both give a full seal.


----------



## defbear

What is the useful life of these wireless IEM’s? All of these IEM’s run on battery. I do not believe the battery is replaceable. If you cannot replace the battery, what do you get? Three years tops?


----------



## SomeGuyDude

defbear said:


> What is the useful life of these wireless IEM’s? All of these IEM’s run on battery. I do not believe the battery is replaceable. If you cannot replace the battery, what do you get? Three years tops?



Considering it's a pretty tiny battery and they're not doing anything exceptionally strenuous I'd imagine they'll survive a long damn time.


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## defbear (Jun 8, 2018)

Thinking about it some more, you are probably correct. Batteries are on my mind. My Jambox’s battery died after six years of daily continuous use. And I just had Apple replace the battery in my iPhone 6+. The iPhone 6 was 3 1/2 years old but Apple told me my battery still had 89% life left. My Jawbone Bluetooth ‘handsfree’ Seems to be working fine after six years. So I’m thinking of batteries.
Reading the FAQ’s on the Nuheara, iqbuds website, they rate the life of the battery and the life of the earphones at 2-3 years if used continuously every day. Which started me thinking of my Bose and Sennheiser bluetooth earphones. And how their batteries may not be replaceable. And then the room started spinning   In my experience with Lithium Ion cells, they build memory over time and they  wear out and will no longer hold much of a charge. It’s gonna happen to these devices over time. For a moment a horror flashed in front of my eyes....a drawer full of expensive, disposable wireless earphones.


----------



## SomeGuyDude (Jun 8, 2018)

Exactly. I'd say you'll get at least 5 out of these. Obviously those guys are gonna tell you 2-3 because they want you replacing them with new models, but I think that's just garbage. Lithium Ion batteries (is it funny that would be LiFe?) are getting better at longevity. I'd be willing to bet that nearly everyone with these will either be upgrading or break them via other means long before the battery dies.

Update: Using the "vocal" setting on the wf-sp700n. Bass is still hella strong, but it's full of energy overall and the boost in the vocal range seems to even out the clarity. I have no idea what is going on with the EQ that Sony shows in the Headphones app, though. It only barely seems to relate.

EDIT: By the by, this might be a dumb question but... shouldn't the Sony last a lot longer on battery if the ANC is off? Or is that circuitry always "active" even if it's not doing anything? Because when I'm just sitting around the house I like using them but I'm unsure about battery life.


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## albau (Jun 8, 2018)

Why is it every other pure wireless headphones but the AirPods have connection and sync problems? Everyone I know have no complains about this aspect of their AirPods, same most reviewers. What is Apple's secret sauce that nobody seems to be able to reproduce, W2 chip? Macaroni shape housing big antennas? Tight coupling with phone's hardware and iOS and less variation thereof?


----------



## ma2k5

albau said:


> Why is it every other pure wireless headphones but the AirPods have connection and sync problems? Everyone I know have no complains about this aspect of their AirPods, same most reviewers. What is Apple's secret sauce that nobody seems to be able to reproduce, W2 chip? Macaroni shape housing big antennas?



The W1 chip is really good. I should note however, there are many Apple forum threads of users with Airpods who experience drop out/connection issues too.


----------



## Tommy C

albau said:


> Why is it every other pure wireless headphones but the AirPods have connection and sync problems? Everyone I know have no complains about this aspect of their AirPods, same most reviewers. What is Apple's secret sauce that nobody seems to be able to reproduce, W2 chip? Macaroni shape housing big antennas? Tight coupling with phone's hardware and iOS and less variation thereof?



No, not really. The Jabra Elite Sport is flawless in that regard. After the latest FW update even the slight sync issue they had with the YouTube app is now resolved.


----------



## clerkpalmer

albau said:


> Why is it every other pure wireless headphones but the AirPods have connection and sync problems? Everyone I know have no complains about this aspect of their AirPods, same most reviewers. What is Apple's secret sauce that nobody seems to be able to reproduce, W2 chip? Macaroni shape housing big antennas? Tight coupling with phone's hardware and iOS and less variation thereof?



This is not my experience. In general, I have not had connection or sync problems with any current gen true wireless.


----------



## albau

clerkpalmer said:


> This is not my experience. In general, I have not had connection or sync problems with any current gen true wireless.


Good to hear, but I'm just judging by this thread and my own experience with Beoplay E8 and Jabbra 65t. Granted these two have only minor intermittent problems on Manhattan streets mostly, but still.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

albau said:


> Why is it every other pure wireless headphones but the AirPods have connection and sync problems? Everyone I know have no complains about this aspect of their AirPods, same most reviewers. What is Apple's secret sauce that nobody seems to be able to reproduce, W2 chip? Macaroni shape housing big antennas? Tight coupling with phone's hardware and iOS and less variation thereof?



Because Apple made the headphones, the phone, AND the operating system. This isn't terribly difficult. The IconX has nearly no connection issues with the Galaxy phones, and if they were running GalaxyOS they'd have even fewer. 

And that's great and all, but considering the Airpods are generally crap in other regards I'm pretty satisfied with dealing with occasional stutters.

BTW the Sony WF-SP700n has a really neat feature where it can put its focus on sound quality or connection stability. Connection hasn't been an issue for me, but hey. It's there.


----------



## clerkpalmer

albau said:


> Good to hear, but I'm just judging by this thread and my own experience with Beoplay E8 and Jabbra 65t. Granted these two have only minor intermittent problems on Manhattan streets mostly, but still.



Admittedly, I do not use any of my TW earphones outside or in a large city so I now understand why there may be connection issues in your setting.  On the flipside, I use them in busy gyms with lots of people using BT headsets, wifi all around and televisions so plenty of things available to cause interference.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

The only thing that's ever given me any interference is our bigass TV, but you gotta be walking right past it for that. And it happens with everything.


----------



## david8613

Something weird happened to me yesterday with my Jabra 65t elite actives. I put my headset on before I went into a local Walmart to hear music and make phone some calls while shopping. My headset started acting very wonky, the connection was not solid, I kept hearing like it was connecting and disconnecting but actually it wasn't, it was that weird clipping/static, hiss no hiss type of sound it kept coming in and out. the sound quality wasn't very good either.  I took them off put them back into the case to reset everything and when I put them back on and made a phone call. my brother instantly said I sounded way too loud! and everything around me was also very loud! it was hard for him to understand me, it hurt his ears. so I ended the call and when I got home I listened to them again and they still did not sound right, so unpaired the 65t active from my Samsung note 8 phone and re-paired them to my phone. that seem to clear up the wonkiness but I'm not 100% sure yet. they do sound better now, but we will see. I remember my Samsung iconx 2018 never did this, rock solid, dependable no wonkiness at all. I will keep an eye or ear one this incase It happens again.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

Jabra firmware has some occasional quirks, I've found, yeah.


----------



## SomeGuyDude (Jun 9, 2018)

A few more Jabra v Sony observations.


Call quality is much, much, much better on Jabra, which makes sense since Jabra is in the business of communication devices by trade. People say I sound a bit muffled with the Sony, and the call is only in the left ear.
Zero hiss on the Sony, this is a big deal for me.
Jabra is more comfortable, Sony is more secure by a country mile. I'm pretty sure you could get in a car crash and the Sony would stay in.
The battery life is definitely inconvenient, but since I use these primarily for workouts, I don't need more than 3 hours at a go.

Despite the bloomy bass, the Sony is significantly more dynamic and engaging than the neutral but somewhat "flat" sounding Jabra (Sony using the "Vocals" preset and giving the Jabra a light v-shaped EQ to sound best in both instances to my ears).
Not being able to custom EQ the Sony is stupid.
Sony's "ambient" mode is amazing, it seriously doesn't even sound like you're wearing them, the Jabra's sounds artificial and tinny.
The total lack of controls on the Sony is aggravating.
The Jabra's buttons are far easier to use.
I didn't think the noise canceling feature would be worth a damn, but it actually is, and I'm surprised at how low I can keep the volume.
So the Jabra are going back, because the Sony just sounds so damn good while working out (the extra bass helps in that use case), and they're so insanely secure I never worry about them even budging. They need charged more and calls are meh, but I'd say for a set of _workout_ headphones, Sony wins. For _general_ use, the Jabra is the better set.


----------



## david8613 (Jun 10, 2018)

I wore my jabra elite sports all weekend, and they ran like a champ. I'm gonna mess with my 65t active tonight and tomorrow. I love Sony products, and sound signals.  but that battery life hit and not having volume controls is a not buy for me.


----------



## Tommy C

david8613 said:


> I wore my jabra elite sports all weekend, and they ran like a champ. I'm gonna mess with my 65t active tonight and tomorrow.



Same here, I live in a super busy city and they usually have zero connectivity issues. However I did notice after upgrading my phone to iOS 11.4 some intermittent “hiccups” when the phone is in battery saving mode. 
Had to restart phone unpair and re-pair and the issue got resolved. 

What’s the difference is sound signature between the Elite Sport and 65t?  I believe the 65t has thinner, more balanced sound, right?


----------



## david8613 (Jun 10, 2018)

Yes 65t is not as powerful as the elite sport. 65t has more separation,, elite sports bass is more solid, harder hitting,. They are close though sometimes I like the 65r more other times the elite sport, other times it samsung iconx 2018. It's great to have choices.


----------



## Tommy C

david8613 said:


> Yes 65t is not as powerful as the elite sport. 65t has more separation,, elite sports bass is more solid, harder hitting,. They are close though sometimes I like the 65r more other times the elite sport, other times it samsung iconx 2018. It's great to have choices.



Yeah, I can’t say the Elite Sport is a detail monster but for on the go use it’s perfectly acceptable and their imaging is good too with a sense of left, right and depth.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

Plus if you're working out, extra bass is helpful since the movement and (likely) external noises will inherently swallow the low frequencies. I admit I'm bizarrely enamoured with the wf-sp700n.


----------



## clerkpalmer

SomeGuyDude said:


> Plus if you're working out, extra bass is helpful since the movement and (likely) external noises will inherently swallow the low frequencies. I admit I'm bizarrely enamoured with the wf-sp700n.


I feel the same. Pumped bass even on bright setting. Tons of energy and punch. Fun as hell sounding.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

clerkpalmer said:


> I feel the same. Pumped bass even on bright setting. Tons of energy and punch. Fun as hell sounding.



I've been using "Vocal" myself, and yeah. Super dynamic. The Jabra was obviously more neutral but ended up sounding dull (for the music I listen to). 

TBH they're so damn good they made me want to look into some full-size BT headphones like the ATH-DSR7BT.


----------



## albau

Was wondering why stock Elite 65t tips all have short hats compared to usual tips. Turns out that most tips from E8 or virtually from any other headphone I have simply won’t fit into Jabra’s charge case. The lid won’t close because the wells for buds are shallow, just don’t have depth for tips with high hats.


----------



## Malthe Østergreen

Does anybody know what bluetooth chip is in the 65t/65t active? I read several reviews speculating it is the new Qualcomm 5100 series (5120/5121) (https://www.qualcomm.com/products/qcc5100-series), but I have found no real evidence.


----------



## david8613

albau said:


> Was wondering why stock Elite 65t tips all have short hats compared to usual tips. Turns out that most tips from E8 or virtually from any other headphone I have simply won’t fit into Jabra’s charge case. The lid won’t close because the wells for buds are shallow, just don’t have depth for tips with high hats.



i have some comply tip i brought from my Samsung iconx 2018 and they have that short hat your talking about, i stopped using them because it took away too much treble, i have not tried on my other headsets, but they should work because they are true wireless models.


----------



## clerkpalmer

CNET has a review up of the sony's:  https://www.cnet.com/products/sony-wf-sp700n-wireless-in-ear-sports-headphones/review/2/


----------



## SomeGuyDude

Don't agree with the conclusion that they can't compete with the Bose and Jabra, since I had both of those and returned 'em in favor of the Sony, but otherwise a solid writeup.


----------



## tomwoo

I have active 65t for four days now. The only complaint I have is the L tips are little tight for me while M tips are too loose. Does anyone have recommendations for third party tips that will fit in the charging case? Thanks.


----------



## albau

In the end I kept Elite 65t and sent back E8. Latter better overall SQ (especially clarity and soundstage) and spiffier charging case weren’t to me worth extra $150. In real life usage (gym and walking/jogging) Jabras turned out easier to control and with less connection hiccups. Their SQ is still good enough considering they are pure wireless. At least much cleaner sounding, less congested and with better separation than typical bundled wired smartphone buds. My Jabra minimal wish list: 1) Better charging case with magnetic closure and deeper wells (also magnetic) so you can use more typical taller tips and 2) Saved EQ presets in Sound+ app.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

I really do feel like it comes down to the Sony/Jabra, and preference will be one's opinion of bass. They're both stellar headsets. Jabra is definitely the better all-rounder in my mind.


----------



## albau

SomeGuyDude said:


> They're both stellar headsets. Jabra is definitely the better all-rounder in my mind.


That's what I also think about 65t vs E8, even despite some loss in SQ.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

albau said:


> That's what I also think about 65t vs E8, even despite some loss in SQ.



And I went with the Sony because of a few minor issues that tilted it towards my personal needs, but if I had to make a general recommendation, the 65t would be it.


----------



## mikp (Jun 12, 2018)

Got two "shenzhen" ones today, both said to be bluetooth 5. One of them is going to be a gift.






Tws-f8 5.0 in the middle and kozon a5 right.

Both passed the "walking outside" connection test, with one caveat.
Since both has left as master, turning the head far left distort connection. Using source in left or right side shirt\jacket pockets was fine, trouser pockets had issues.

The kozon wins on features with adjustments as volume, previous-next track,ok google and stereo call. Also it can be turned on and powered off without the case.

The f8 can be turned on and skip track + ok google besides the normal play\pause and answer calls.


----------



## ma2k5

I am happy to see truly wireless IEM's are improving. I think after a year, I think we may be at a stage where I will replace my current gym IEM's (Powerbeats 3) with these.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

ma2k5 said:


> I am happy to see truly wireless IEM's are improving. I think after a year, I think we may be at a stage where I will replace my current gym IEM's (Powerbeats 3) with these.



I have a set of Powerbeats. The Sony/Bose/Jabra are all significantly better. The PB3 is gonna win if you have an iPhone for sure just for connectivity ease, but the sound and other features are significantly better.


----------



## albau

ma2k5 said:


> I am happy to see truly wireless IEM's are improving. I think after a year, I think we may be at a stage where I will replace my current gym IEM's (Powerbeats 3) with these.


I was surprised to discover that for my usages (mostly streaming indoors - gym, office) pure wireless IEMs are good enough even now in terms of sound, stability and continuous play time. At least that's true for my current Jabra Elite 65t or even Beoplay E8 that I sent back.


----------



## clerkpalmer

Another review from a good source:  https://www.theverge.com/2018/6/12/17451640/sony-wireless-workout-earbuds-wf-sp700n-review-features


----------



## TYATYA

a 6.3 jack for reference of dimension. 
Very small. Sound quality is much less than wire head set originally comes with samsung note8


----------



## SomeGuyDude

clerkpalmer said:


> Another review from a good source:  https://www.theverge.com/2018/6/12/17451640/sony-wireless-workout-earbuds-wf-sp700n-review-features



The Verge is hardly a "good source." They're Apple fanboys. The fact that the reviewer didn't even try to use any of the EQ presets while simultaneously complaining about the lack of EQ options makes me laugh.


----------



## MIBUK

Forget about the sound. Their design isn’t acceptable to me. They’re ugly. Wireless should at least try to be discreet. The tech exists, but Sony’s target market seems to be those that don’t care so much about the look. They just want the convenience and reasonable sound. But then go for the Jabras then.


----------



## albau

MIBUK said:


> Forget about the sound. Their design isn’t acceptable to me...


Having to control volume from your source is one of such design things.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

MIBUK said:


> Forget about the sound. Their design isn’t acceptable to me. They’re ugly. Wireless should at least try to be discreet. The tech exists, but Sony’s target market seems to be those that don’t care so much about the look. They just want the convenience and reasonable sound. But then go for the Jabras then.



If you're more worried about appearances than sound for a thing you stick in your ear that you literally can't see while you're using it then uh... maybe get some sweet Beats, bro. I find something peculiar about slagging Sony as focusing on people who care about the device's actual performance as opposed to its aesthetics.

The Jabras don't sound as good.


----------



## MIBUK

SomeGuyDude said:


> If you're more worried about appearances than sound for a thing you stick in your ear that you literally can't see while you're using it then uh... maybe get some sweet Beats, bro. I find something peculiar about slagging Sony as focusing on people who care about the device's actual performance as opposed to its aesthetics.
> 
> The Jabras don't sound as good.



The Earin M-2’s will do just fine for me now. Their sound is good for my ears. Very discreet & works for my lifestyle. I guess if you’re looking for the best sound possible with TWS, great, but design wise they won’t win any awards . There’s a reason why companies invest millions into talented designers. I just think Sony could have done better. They’re normally good at design.


----------



## Tommy C

I don’t know, Sony offers good products in general but their design choices are somewhat questionable.


----------



## Malthe Østergreen (Jun 13, 2018)

Just got a pair of 65t active today. So far really impressed. Only tried a cheap chinese pair (X2, I believe they are called), so haven't got much to compare them to. Don't think I'll return them. Fits my needs (decent battery, acceptable sq for casual music listening and audiobooks, no cutouts so far). The sound is better than I thought it would be actually. Plenty of bas for me. And the hearthrough is useful. Only real con is the case. True wireless feels so futuristic!


----------



## jnak00

PSB has a firmware update for the TW1s.  It fixes an audio dropping issue I had.  You need an Android device to do a somewhat complicated update (made more difficult by very poor instructions).  

I also noticed the sound quality changed and upon inquiring, PSB support responded that they tweaked the EQ to make them sound more like the M4U2s.  Apparently they tweaked the midrange only.  In my opinion, the bass feels a little reduced and the treble a little increased.  I had not listened to them for a few days before I did the update, so my impressions are by memory only.  I do think they sound a little better now.


----------



## ma2k5 (Jun 13, 2018)

SomeGuyDude said:


> I have a set of Powerbeats. The Sony/Bose/Jabra are all significantly better. The PB3 is gonna win if you have an iPhone for sure just for connectivity ease, but the sound and other features are significantly better.



Yep I am an iPhone user.

I think it is the fact I get 12 hours of battery life at full volume on these, which is just insane. I also quite frequently use them for long commutes or during office listening to the radio for hours (while with the IEM's as it stands, I'd have to charge them by lunch time). 

I think 65t is getting very close to the ideal IEM's, perhaps over the next year we will have the technology to get 8 hour battery life on these things - or at the very least, have the case provide 24-48 hours battery life (similar to AirPods).


----------



## albau

Do you EQ your pure wireless IEMs in the app? On my 65t I mostly leave it on default (flat) for heavy stuff like techno, electronic, hip-hop, The Muse, etc. but pump a notch or two lowest frequency for spacious music like blues, jazz and vocal like Melody Gadot, Zaz, Amy Winehouse, etc. This of course indoors. On a noisy street I have to increase bass for everything. Wish that Jabra’s app would allow for editable EQ presets and more that 5 frequency points.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

I EQ'd the 65t to be a little more v-shaped because I felt the stock was too blah, but I also listen to a lot of heavy music.

On the wf-sp700n I use the "vocal" preset because it tamps back the "XTRA BASS" and brings out the vocals better.


----------



## Peddler

I'm just going through the process of reviewing the SoundPEATS Q32's - sadly still no aptx but they do have Bluetooth 5.0. although this doesn't have a particular effect on sound quality, it has resulted in some impressive connection strength. They don't sound too bad either. Review to follow in a couple of days.


----------



## gorman

Still no truly wireless CIEMs, am I right?


----------



## nc8000

Haven’t seen any and I don’t think I would dare get them if there were


----------



## albau

gorman said:


> Still no truly wireless CIEMs, am I right?


What's CIEM?


----------



## clerkpalmer

Bragi offers a custom option for their dash pro.


----------



## gorman

albau said:


> What's CIEM?


Custom In-Ear Monitors.
And yeah, I should have mentioned I'm aware of Bragi.


----------



## hifi80sman

Anyone try these out yet?
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07CZCLJRY/

Doesn't look like they are offered via Prime anymore, but still available via third party (direct) seller.  For under $30, they sound good, fit well, and feel solid.  To me, they're clones of the WF-1000X, but without ANC.  The definitely punch above their price point and sound better than Bragi The Headphone, which I promptly returned to Costco.  For a budget option, I haven't found anything better.


----------



## howdy

Just bought jabra sport. Was really considering the Sony WF1000x and still might some day as I really enjoy the Sony WT1000.


----------



## Todd S

hifi80sman said:


> Anyone try these out yet?
> https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07CZCLJRY/
> 
> Doesn't look like they are offered via Prime anymore, but still available via third party (direct) seller.  For under $30, they sound good, fit well, and feel solid.  To me, they're clones of the WF-1000X, but without ANC.  The definitely punch above their price point and sound better than Bragi The Headphone, which I promptly returned to Costco.  For a budget option, I haven't found anything better.



Thanks for the recommendation.
These are available via Prime again. In stock June 29th. $26.99 at the moment. I was looking for a cheap set for mowing the yard, working out, etc. Worth a shot at this price.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07CZCLJRY/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1


----------



## david8613

This question is for owners of the jabra elite 65t active. From what I understand the 65t active are supposed to be excellent for phone calls, but lately when I go to places like walmart and best buy where there is alot of back round noise and i am talking with my brother on the phone he tells me i am super loud and the back round noises are also super loud to the point he cannot listen to me via his handset an apple iphone its painful, he has to put me on speaker to avoid hurting his ears. This happened more than once with the jabra 65t active. He never complained when I used my samsung iconx 2018 nor my jabra elite sport, gonna test again to see. My phone is a samsung note 8. Anyone experience this?


----------



## robotncc

anyone tried Comply Truly Wireless Pro Premium Earphone Tips with Jabra Elite 65t?


----------



## albau (Jun 24, 2018)

robotncc said:


> anyone tried Comply Truly Wireless Pro Premium Earphone Tips with Jabra Elite 65t?


I didn't try them but be aware that 65t charge case has pretty shallow wells where to sink earbuds. That's why Jabras use short eartips heads. I tried few pretty standard tips from my other buds, all of them taller than stock, and none of them will allow case lid to close. Though by the looks, these Complys may fit, but not sure.


----------



## bujinkan

Just yesterday bought the bose free
First impressions
a little big but a good grip 
sound very nice i might say
good tught bass
ambient sound i can hear (not so bad for me )
as for the sound delay on a video and the lip synchronization as far 2 videos on you tube i watched i didnt see a problem
the soynd is synchronized with the lips until now ( i didnt watch a movie on netflix or somewhere else to try it just 2 video reviews on youtube
Now i have them downloading the new firmware which they say solves the problem with sound delay, a problem that i dont have and hope stays like this with th new firmware
i was between the bose and the beoplay e8 and decided to go to bose
Here in europe bose 199 euro e8 300 euro


----------



## rhsauer

david8613 said:


> This question is for owners of the jabra elite 65t active. From what I understand the 65t active are supposed to be excellent for phone calls, but lately when I go to places like walmart and best buy where there is alot of back round noise and i am talking with my brother on the phone he tells me i am super loud and the back round noises are also super loud to the point he cannot listen to me via his handset an apple iphone its painful, he has to put me on speaker to avoid hurting his ears. This happened more than once with the jabra 65t active. He never complained when I used my samsung iconx 2018 nor my jabra elite sport, gonna test again to see. My phone is a samsung note 8. Anyone experience this?



I haven’t had that complaint.  Can’t your brother turn the volume down on his side?


----------



## hifi80sman

david8613 said:


> This question is for owners of the jabra elite 65t active. From what I understand the 65t active are supposed to be excellent for phone calls, but lately when I go to places like walmart and best buy where there is alot of back round noise and i am talking with my brother on the phone he tells me i am super loud and the back round noises are also super loud to the point he cannot listen to me via his handset an apple iphone its painful, he has to put me on speaker to avoid hurting his ears. This happened more than once with the jabra 65t active. He never complained when I used my samsung iconx 2018 nor my jabra elite sport, gonna test again to see. My phone is a samsung note 8. Anyone experience this?


You can test how you sound by calling your own cell phone, with your own cell phone of course, and changing your VM greeting.  Don't save it, obviously, just review how it sounds then exit out.  It'll give you a good reference of how you sound when you're on the phone.  Testing the mic out using the voice recorder on your phone is *NOT *the same thing, as it does not use the same Bluetooth profile.


----------



## mikp

so far the 65t and a pait of chinese tws bluetooth 5 have been good.

Would be interesting to try something with QCC5100 like this


----------



## bujinkan

a short update on my new bose
on my first short 3 km jogging with my brand new bose i didnt have any disconnection of the left earbud 
when i got home and did the first full charge the bose app also installed the latest update
This morning on my daily jogging i started to have short disc of the left earbud for about 1-2 sec each
more than 15 times
When i got home i did clear the conection from the bose and did unpair it from my galaxy s9 and pair it again
Thought it was a good idea after the firmware upgrade 
So i just came back from my evening jogging and i report that i did not had one single disc of the left earbud
A rock solid connection on my 30 minute jogging
Of course i will see to it again but i hope that the problem is solved


----------



## bermitanyo316

I bought the Sony MUC-M2BT1. Sound quality is amazing. It's not a style everybody ascribes to (neckband style) but paired with my v30 (oreo) via LDAC with Optimized connection (developer options), sounds amazing. Before, wired and wireless sound quality difference was a chasm. Now, I could honestly say it has not. Only when you intimately know your iem and the song from the source will you notice that certain dynamic range elements missing. I use CA comet and Primo 8 on it and they're amazing. I also have the MyManu Clik+ which is dual balanced armature with apt-x truly wireless. I'm an early backer on kickstarter and received them end of May. They're my exercise buds. They still cut out, but it's not as blatant as the bragi dash which I also have via kickstarter (and completely forgot about after receiving these). Truly wireless is still imperfect, but bluetooth 5.0 and other innovations will make late 2018 and 2019 promising for wireless audio.


----------



## howdy

Got the Sony WF1000x they sound really good actually amazed how good they sound. My only gripe albeit a small one is that they don't go real loud. The max volume is definitely acceptable but knowing it can't go more is the gripe.


----------



## david8613

you have to check sonys app. there is another volume adjustment in there if I remember correctly when I had them. that should fix your problem.


----------



## howdy

david8613 said:


> you have to check sonys app. there is another volume adjustment in there if I remember correctly when I had them. that should fix your problem.


That one is up all the way too. It is plenty loud for when needed just thought it would go louder. If I need more juice I can listen to my WH1000XM2 which is more then enough.
I see you have the Jabra sport, I want those as well for working out and or outside. How are you liking them so far?


----------



## albau

Amazon is full of $50 pure wireless buds, some claim BT5 and AptX/AAC. Are there any decent sounding, reliable and with native volume control?


----------



## david8613

Jabra elite sports are great they are in my daily rotation with my Samsung incox 2018, Jabra elite 65t active.


----------



## RedSky0

mikp said:


> so far the 65t and a pait of chinese tws bluetooth 5 have been good.
> 
> Would be interesting to try something with QCC5100 like this



Skeptical it's actually 10 hours battery life but would love to be proven wrong.


----------



## howdy

david8613 said:


> Jabra elite sports are great they are in my daily rotation with my Samsung incox 2018, Jabra elite 65t active.


Of the 3 you have listed which one has the best overall sound? Great bass, high and mids. I have watched numerous YouTube videos and still I'm undecided. Slightly leaning towards the sport.


----------



## Tommy C

howdy said:


> Of the 3 you have listed which one has the best overall sound? Great bass, high and mids. I have watched numerous YouTube videos and still I'm undecided. Slightly leaning towards the sport.



I have the Sport and I’m very happy.  Rock solid connection and a great package as a daily driver.


----------



## howdy

Tommy C said:


> I have the Sport and I’m very happy.  Rock solid connection and a great package as a daily driver.


Do you have anything to compare it to wired or not? I only have the Sony WF and WH1000XM2 for comparison.


----------



## Tommy C

howdy said:


> Do you have anything to compare it to wired or not? I only have the Sony WF and WH1000XM2 for comparison.



Yeah, I also have/ had the Bose Soundsport Free, PSB M4U4, TW1, NAD Viso HP50. 
Soundsport free has better highs and more colored base but the mids are lacking to my ears. 
They’re also huge and phones calls quality are subpar. 
Jabra offers an equalizer in their app which is nice.  They have very nice imaging and soundstage is solid, bass is strong, not us tight but doesn’t bleed and not boomy, it becomes heavy if it’s in the track.


----------



## howdy

Tommy C said:


> Yeah, I also have/ had the Bose Soundsport Free, PSB M4U4, TW1, NAD Viso HP50.
> Soundsport free has better highs and more colored base but the mids are lacking to my ears.
> They’re also huge and phones calls quality are subpar.
> Jabra offers an equalizer in their app which is nice.  They have very nice imaging and soundstage is solid, bass is strong, not us tight but doesn’t bleed and not boomy, it becomes heavy if it’s in the track.


I've seen the soundsport and they are big, I have a big head and ears and they would still look big on me. I was looking at getting the jaybird X3 first and then the sport. I want a corded one for when I'm biking ill feel a little safer if one falls out.


----------



## Spamateur (Jul 9, 2018)

EDIT: Well that was quick, looks like Amazon raised the price back up to MSRP levels.

Just a heads up, Amazon has the Jabra Elite 65t on sale for $129.99 right now. That's $40 off the MSRP. I ran into my local Best Buy and got them to price match Amazon. Stellar deal.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

Agreed, the 65t is a fantastic purchase at that price. Almost a no-brainer.


----------



## david8613 (Jul 9, 2018)

Jabra 65t elite has the best overall sound, its clear, very good bass, mids and highs, very nice separation between instruments. Jabra elite sounds really good, has stronger bass but not as much separation as the 65t. Samsung iconx sound great But jabras sound nicer,  I love the iconx 2018 controls more than jabras. Connection is strength is very close, very good in all three. If you do any working out, get the 65t active version not the regular one.


----------



## Spamateur (Jul 9, 2018)

david8613 said:


> Jabra 65t elite has the best overall sound, its clear, very good bass, mids and highs, very nice separation between instruments. Jabra elite sounds really good, has stronger bass but not as much separation as the 65t. Samsung iconx sound great But jabras sound nicer,  I love the iconx 2018 controls more than jabras. Connection is strength is very close, very good in all three. If you do any working out, get the 65t active version not the regular one.



Y'know, of the true wireless IEMs I've owned, I thought the Bose SoundSport Free was by far the best sounding, and it wasn't particularly close with the exception of the Sony WF-1000x (which has it's own set of limitations). The Bose had a very clean and clear treble section with that stereotypically smooth and warm Bose sound, and a decent soundstage (by IEM standards) probably due to the fact that they sit at the entrance of the ear canal rather than deep inside. The sound wasn't exactly neutral, but it was the most distortion-free and clear of any wireless IEMs I tried and sounded great with pretty much anything I threw at it. The Jabras aren't "bad" but I don't think they come all that close to the Bose, unfortunately.

I actually previously owned the Jabras a few months ago but didn't love the sound for the price. I figured there'd be something better on the market, but I wasn't able to find anything that met my needs. I repurchased them today mainly because I was able to get them for $70 out of pocket with the price-matched discount and a bunch of reward certificates I had sitting around for Best Buy. At that price I thought the sound quality was acceptable since the Jabras have the best combo of form factor, stable connectivity and battery life, but the audible distortion in the treble as well as the prominent treble spike still grates on my nerves. EQ'ing that down a bit made them tolerable. However, I'm coming from years of listening to kilobuck over-ear cans, CIEMs, IEMs, and DAPs as well as my 2-channel setup, so I'm pretty specific about what I like.

The Jabras still sound better than the B&O Beoplay E8, which sounded even worse to me than my wife's Airpods no matter how much I played with the B&O EQ, but personally speaking I think the Bose are the best sounding of the group. The Beoplays were shockingly disappointing and the worst sounding of all the wireless IEMs I tried, with a frequency response that was all over the place. There's a spike in the treble surrounded by two prominent dips so cymbals or anything else in the upper registers sounds tinny and thin with really obvious distortion. I think there's a hump in the mids, and bass is downright bizarre. Subbass sounded juiced but without any accompanying midbass hump, so it sounded to my ears like like I missing half of the low-end. For the $300 price, I thought they were absurdly bad, but YMMV.

For the $70 I paid, the Jabras will be fine until there's more competition in this space and companies comes out with better sounding wireless IEMs. Hopefully Sennheiser sees the potential in this market, and Sony releases a wireless IEM with a minimum of 5 hours of battery life and Bluetooth 5.0 connectivity. I'd be all over that. Heck, if Bose just made a SoundSport Free with better noise isolation and connectivity, I'd be first in line to throw money at them considering how much I like their current model.


----------



## matneh

Totally agree about the Bose vs the Jabra.  I had the SoundSport Free and the 65t and the Bose sounded much better.  Don’t apologize because there is so much Jabra love here!


----------



## SomeGuyDude

I think it depends on what you value in sound. I found the Bose so... lifeless, just like the QC35. Sure it did nothing wrong, but I never found myself wanting to get up and bop around. I didn't get _moved_ by the music, I just sat back and appreciated it. That might work if you're planning on using them in an office or airplane, but for recreational listening (and especially in the gym) that's just no go.


----------



## Tommy C

Getting a proper fit and the right fit is key with the Jabras.
When I first demoed them I thought they were trash. 
I had the Bose at the same time and the sound was solid, after getting a proper fit with the Jabra I like the better as an overall package and a daily driver. 
The Soundsport Free have weak mids and colored signature IMO.  
The Jabra Elite Sport offer wide soundstage, balanced sound and elevated bass, crispy sound but never harsh.  
A/B’ed them for a good few hours with the NAD Viso HP50 and are not that far behind.  Their bass is not that precise and the treble is not that extended but I prefer the mids on the Jabra. 
They are very good IF you get a perfect fit which is tricky with their short nozzle.


----------



## david8613

its true with Jabras or any in ear, fit is crucial. some tips don't work well with certain ear types. you gotta find the ones that work. when I brought the Jabra elite sport awhile back they sounded horrible with the included ear tips no bass whats so ever, very tinny, low, almost static like. I changed to some cheap spare tips I had from another set of ear phones and WOW! big bass, clearer, louder, nice mids and treble. so make sure you have a good seal, you can feel it, twist/screw them in if you have to or moisten the tips that helps. I never bothered with bose, I am sure they are nice, but too big and no seal is a big no no for me, I want to be sealed from environment.


----------



## albau

david8613 said:


> its true with Jabras or any in ear, fit is crucial. some tips don't work well with certain ear types. you gotta find the ones that work.


Totally agree, applies to any IEM. Proper fit and sleeve can drastically change sound signature. With 65t Elite I found that stock big sleeves work best for me. Compared with default medium sleeve big ones opened bass and soundstage and made the whole sound much more engaging, more dimensional. Some other tips from my collection also worked fine but they didn't fully fit into Jabra's charging case. On the other hand B&O E8 proved much harder to find a good sounding fit that also stays secure in the ear. The test I use with IEMs to check if the fit and isolation are good is while playing music to cup your ears with your hands and press a little. If sound doesn't change drastically for the better and IEMs don't wobble much then you have it good.


----------



## howdy

Picked up the Jaybird X3 for working out and they are a great pair. When compared to the Sony wf1000x then its not even a close cpmparison, Sony is by far superior in sound quality.


----------



## krh7

Curious to see when B&O releases their next version. Between Apple and B&O, I've been waiting for the next version to "perfect" the tech.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

krh7 said:


> Curious to see when B&O releases their next version. Between Apple and B&O, I've been waiting for the next version to "perfect" the tech.



Aside from the W1 chip what exactly has Apple done to suggest they'll "perfect" the tech?


----------



## howdy

To those who own the Jaybird Run how are you liking these and how is the sound compared to Jabra elite?


----------



## Hyperfluxe

How's the bass on the Jabra Elite Active 65t, do they sound "fun" like the Bose SS and Apple Airpods? I found that in the gym when I'm lifting I'd rather have a fun, bassy sound signature for dubstep, DnB or metal.


----------



## Spamateur

Hyperfluxe said:


> How's the bass on the Jabra Elite Active 65t, do they sound "fun" like the Bose SS and Apple Airpods? I found that in the gym when I'm lifting I'd rather have a fun, bassy sound signature for dubstep, DnB or metal.



It's less bassy than the Bose but quality is pretty good. It's not the tightest bass, but it has decent definition and thump. I was playing the new Deafheaven album yesterday and the double kick drums were distinct and punchy enough for me to be happy. It also responds very well to EQ using Jabra's Sound+ app, so EQ'ing up the bass a bit doesn't result in any obvious distortion. The Bose, however, has the best bass (and overall sound IMO) of any of the current crop of wireless IEMs.


----------



## Hyperfluxe

Spamateur said:


> It's less bassy than the Bose but quality is pretty good. It's not the tightest bass, but it has decent definition and thump. I was playing the new Deafheaven album yesterday and the double kick drums were distinct and punchy enough for me to be happy. It also responds very well to EQ using Jabra's Sound+ app, so EQ'ing up the bass a bit doesn't result in any obvious distortion. The Bose, however, has the best bass (and overall sound IMO) of any of the current crop of wireless IEMs.



Yeah I really liked the Bose SS for sound but the isolation sucks. One day we'll be able to buy an ideal true wireless IEM...


----------



## SomeGuyDude

I found the Jabra, with a bit of EQ, to be significantly more fun than the Bose and I can't imagine calling the Airpods anything but supremely bleh.


----------



## Spamateur (Jul 14, 2018)

Hyperfluxe said:


> Yeah I really liked the Bose SS for sound but the isolation sucks. One day we'll be able to buy an ideal true wireless IEM...



Ditto. The lack of isolation was the only reason I returned them because I didn't love having to crank the volume on the Bose just to make them useful on a plane. The Jabras don't sound as good, but after living with them for a few days now they've grown on me just because they're so easy to use and the connection to my phone is solid. I dropped the highest EQ band down a bit and they sound acceptable until something better comes out. I have a feeling we'll see a few releases by end of the year.


----------



## Hyperfluxe

Looks like the 65t's are the current best option all around, will be purchasing soon. I was surprised to find that the Airpods didn't sound too bad on my phone (LG G5 with Equalizer app, 320k Spotify streams) but when I used my friends' phones it sounded like a bloated mess.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

My biggest beef with the 65t is a faint left-side hiss. Just drove me nuts, but not everyone seems to have it. I went with the Sony because they're just for workouts.


----------



## albau (Jul 15, 2018)

SomeGuyDude said:


> My biggest beef with the 65t is a faint left-side hiss. Just drove me nuts, but not everyone seems to have it. I went with the Sony because they're just for workouts.


Mine don’t hiss. Happy with the sound overall considering what they are. Connection is very reliable. Isolation is decent and they stay secure in ears during runs and workouts.


----------



## sly_in_the_sky

Hello,

My Jabra 65t are on their way and should arrive tomorrow.

My question is perhaps stupid but I plan to use the Jabra with my shanling Mo (more convenient for sports). Is the Jabra compatible with other players than Iphone specialy all the buttons functions (skip/pause/volume and so on on the Jabra).

Another question: when doing some EQ settings on the app (using a Iphone) are these settings recorded in the jabra and also working when using the jabra witn another player or are these settings only functional with the app + iphone/ android 

Look forward to run with them...

Thank you in advance.

Sly


----------



## mikp

sly_in_the_sky said:


> Hello,
> 
> My Jabra 65t are on their way and should arrive tomorrow.
> 
> ...



I have used the 65t on many different devices and the buttons work. Not tried eq in the app, but hearthrough and remove\sound off settings are stored in the buds. Very good since I use it with other daps like r3 etc and dont need the android app.


----------



## sly_in_the_sky

Hello mikp,

Thank you for your answer, I appreciate.

Best regards.

S.


----------



## hk29

I got a pair of jabra 65t.  I would echo most of the same impressions.  Connection and useability is rock solid.  The case is a little hard to open.  For the sound, without any EQ applied, the sound is pretty decent.  I don't think they sound better than their price tag so don't expect anything amazing.  The bass doesn't go low or textured, but its satisfying enough.  The midrange is a bit dry and cold, a little reccessed, but clear.  It doesn't extend super high, but enough to sound open and not too dark.  The soundstage intimate, but there's still air around the instruments.  I haven't used any wireless headphones in a while.  But given that the sound comes in wireless, I would say it's pretty impressive - I couldn't tell if these were wired or not.  For me the convenience of wireless why at the gym/running or commuting trumps all else.  

This is an unfair comparison, but when compared to iSine 10 @$349 MSRP, the ISine is significantly better in all aspects.  When I don't need wireless, I always listen to the iSine.

Question:  For hearthrough, when engaged at the highest (slider to the right), I don't hear voices very well.  It brings in high frequency sounds, but I was hoping to be able to have a conversation without having to pull out the buds.  I'm on firmware 2.10.0 (1033).  Is this a consistent experience?  Or do I have a defective unit (which I'm not sure how unless one of the mics isn't working).


----------



## albau

sly_in_the_sky said:


> My question is perhaps stupid but I plan to use the Jabra with my shanling Mo (more convenient for sports). Is the Jabra compatible with other players than Iphone specialy all the buttons functions (skip/pause/volume and so on on the Jabra).
> 
> Another question: when doing some EQ settings on the app (using a Iphone) are these settings recorded in the jabra and also working when using the jabra witn another player or are these settings only functional with the app + iphone/ android



My 65t plays fine from both Android phone and from iPad, it remembers pairing, all its own functionality (volume, pause/play, etc.) works same with both. By the same token settings in the app, like EQ, also persist across source devices.


----------



## TsKen

I got the Jabra Active Elite 65T, they should be arriving tomorrow.

Does anyone know if there is a difference in SQ between different bluetooth players?

For example, are there any differences in SQ between LG V20 and the Fiio x3 when using blue tooth?

Also, since i'm getting the 65T tomorrow, if anyone has any questions specifically for the 65T, let me know.


----------



## howdy

TsKen said:


> I got the Jabra Active Elite 65T, they should be arriving tomorrow.
> 
> Does anyone know if there is a difference in SQ between different bluetooth players?
> 
> ...


Eager to here your thoughts on them. I'm still deciding between the Elite 65t or the Jaybird Run.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

TsKen said:


> I got the Jabra Active Elite 65T, they should be arriving tomorrow.
> 
> Does anyone know if there is a difference in SQ between different bluetooth players?
> 
> ...



Bluetooth is just digitally transmitting the files. It doesn't matter what you use.


----------



## yuriv

howdy said:


> To those who own the Jaybird Run how are you liking these and how is the sound compared to Jabra elite?



I just put up a review of the Jabra Elite 65t, where I compare it with the Jaybird Run. My Jaybird Run review has been up for a while.

Jaybird Run review

Jabra Elite 65t review​


----------



## turbobb

PSA for those who have experienced bad audio lag issues with the Bose SoundSport Free. I just upgraded to v2.5.6 and it seems to have resolved most of the lag; iOS is near standard aptX latency (~70-80ms) while on Android it's a little more (~150ms). This is much better than before since I was experiencing almost a 1 second lag on Android (LG V30). 

I haven't had connectivity issues so can't speak to how this FW impacts that. Hopefully others who have had those issues and have updated to this latest FW can chime in.


----------



## DSD Roy

Most of the ones available Don't even come close to the sound provided in famous branded wired IEMs like Jerry Harvey, Shure, Ultimate Ears & Westone


----------



## DSD Roy

clerkpalmer said:


> Does 5.0 offer any actual audio improvements?  I have read mixed reports.  AptxHD maybe requires 5.0?


It's 5.1 and yes it does depending on the actual recording's engineering process the goal of surround sound is the separation of the elements of the sound as a whole and the better pronunciation of what your hearing triple and above drive IEMs have and are still achieving this eg: Jerry Harvey Audio (among others)


----------



## turbobb

SomeGuyDude said:


> Bluetooth is just digitally transmitting the files. It doesn't matter what you use.


Theoretically correct but technically not always true. It depends on each manufacturer's implementation of the BT codec in use. In general I've see very little variation for aptX (CSR chips) but lots of variance for SBC, of which the latter should become increasingly rarer as aptX and other codecs gain wider adoption.


----------



## Spamateur

DSD Roy said:


> It's 5.1 and yes it does depending on the actual recording's engineering process the goal of surround sound is the separation of the elements of the sound as a whole and the better pronunciation of what your hearing triple and above drive IEMs have and are still achieving this eg: Jerry Harvey Audio (among others)



There is no Bluetooth 5.1. The latest spec is still 5.0. You seem to confusing this with surround sound 5.1 channels (5 channels + subwoofer) which is very different.


----------



## RunsWithScissors

New Comply Foam Tips coming!

I’ve had the Jabra Elite Active 65t for over one month now and very happy with these earphones. Only downside is lag with YouTube vids. No lag with Netflix or Amazon Prime video or streaming video from home network PC on iPhone 7 or iPad. I use the provided large size silicone tips and get good sound, albeit with slightly difficult fit. 

I just tested new Comply foam tips being developed specifically for the 65t and Active 65t which appear to replace (or supplement) the older “truly wireless” foam tips. These new Comply foam tips were provided to me in Small, Medium and Large sizes just last week so I assume they will be offered for sale in those sizes too. They all fit in the charging case and performed very similarly to other Comply foam tips. I found them to be more comfortable than the provided silicone tips and about equal or better ambient sound isolation with good sound across the frequency spectrum. 

Something to look forward to...


----------



## shandy3

RunsWithScissors said:


> New Comply Foam Tips coming!
> 
> I just tested new Comply foam tips being developed specifically for the 65t and Active 65t which appear to replace (or supplement) the older “truly wireless” foam tips. These new Comply foam tips were provided to me in Small, Medium and Large sizes just last week so I assume they will be offered for sale in those sizes too. They all fit in the charging case and performed very similarly to other Comply foam tips. I found them to be more comfortable than the provided silicone tips and about equal or better ambient sound isolation with good sound across the frequency spectrum.
> 
> Something to look forward to...



Can you share any details on how the new 65t tips are different/better than the existing "Truly Wireless" tips? e.g. better sound isolation; impact on bass or sound signature etc.

I've been pretty happy using Comply's truly wireless tips with the 65t, and they seem to fit inside the case fine. However... I'll be excited if something better is on the way!


----------



## mdickerman

Is there a true wireless option that has USB-C and aptx?


----------



## RunsWithScissors

shandy3 said:


> Can you share any details on how the new 65t tips are different/better than the existing "Truly Wireless" tips? e.g. better sound isolation; impact on bass or sound signature etc.
> 
> I've been pretty happy using Comply's truly wireless tips with the 65t, and they seem to fit inside the case fine. However... I'll be excited if something better is on the way!



I have not actually used the Truly Wireless tips because they only come in one size which is equivalent to the Medium size on other Comply foam tips. I require Large size tips to fit my ears so I doubted the Truly Wireless tips would fit me. I inquired with Comply support about 65t tips and alternatives and they invited me to the test program one month after my inquiry. The newly developed tips specifically for the Elite/Active 65t come in Small, Medium, and Large sizes (at least the test tips provided to me as part of the "VIP" test program were available in these sizes - I can only assume they will be the same tips that eventually go on sale depending on test feedback received by Comply). These tips are similar to other Comply foam tips such as the 'isolation' models in shape and materials without wax guards. I have isolation, sport and comfort tips for the Jlab Epic 2 wireless earphones and equate the 65t tips with the standard isolation tips as most similar. The 65t tips fit in the charging case whereas the other 'standard' tips (not truly wireless) do NOT fit in the charging case - height dimension is too tall and core inner diameter on the 65t tips maintains a good fit on the earphones so they don't slip off when being inserted/removed from your ears or the charging case. Overall, the 65t tips sound comparable to the silicone tips, perhaps a bit better bass depending on fit/seal you get. This is very subjective and I'm not measuring frequency response, just subjectively listening to same sources and songs with both tips installed and subjectively comparing. I find the 65t foam tips more comfortable than the provided silicone tips too and they fit very securely, so good for workouts/activity.


----------



## albau (Jul 25, 2018)

mdickerman said:


> Is there a true wireless option that has USB-C and aptx?


My Jabra 65t Elite on Android phone (Samsung Galaxy S8) use AAC, which as I gather in the same league as AptX, above SBC. Jabras also use BT5 and it shows. I understand desire for a better sounding codec but why usb-c is so important?


----------



## mikp

I have the 65t,would not mind a version with aptx. Also have two Schenzen specials that works (connection between the BUDS)

What worries me with aptx is connection stability outdoors with the higher transfer.

Even the 65t drops connection if head is far right and ear crossed the shoulder.

Waiting for the qualcomm 5100 series, but has been very silent on that area


----------



## yuriv

RunsWithScissors said:


> New Comply Foam Tips coming!
> 
> I’ve had the Jabra Elite Active 65t for over one month now and very happy with these earphones. Only downside is lag with YouTube vids. No lag with Netflix or Amazon Prime video or streaming video from home network PC on iPhone 7 or iPad. I use the provided large size silicone tips and get good sound, albeit with slightly difficult fit.
> 
> ...



Lol. Your last post before this one was way back in 2006! And I thought I posted infrequently. 

Anyway, that is certainly good news about the new Comply tips, and I'm definitely looking forward to it. The Truly Wireless with Smart Core universal fit tips barely fit, and it made them sound worse, with more emphasis between 6-9 kHz. I'm pretty sure the new ones will fit better, and I hope they do a better job damping the peak near 7 kHz on the pair that I have. I wish I could have participated in that VIP test program so I could put in my feedback, but it's probably too late for that.

BTW, YouTube should really fix the app. A workaround is to play the video in Safari. The lag is much, much less noticeable. On the iPad, the browser chrome still remains when you tell it to play the video full screen. On the iPhone, no problem, except maybe it plays the video at a lower resolution. I'll have to test that one more.


----------



## howdy

Just picked up the Jaybird Run today and I'm happy to say, they sound great and the fit is amazing! Really enjoying the world of wireless.


----------



## RunsWithScissors

yuriv said:


> Lol. Your last post before this one was way back in 2006! And I thought I posted infrequently.
> 
> Anyway, that is certainly good news about the new Comply tips, and I'm definitely looking forward to it. The Truly Wireless with Smart Core universal fit tips barely fit, and it made them sound worse, with more emphasis between 6-9 kHz. I'm pretty sure the new ones will fit better, and I hope they do a better job damping the peak near 7 kHz on the pair that I have. I wish I could have participated in that VIP test program so I could put in my feedback, but it's probably too late for that.



RE: infrequent posting 

I was spending too much time and too much money on this forum so I had to take a break to save what was left of my sanity... and my bank account

It might not be too late to get in on the Comply 65t tips testing. Suggest you send an email in to Comply Support with a link to this thread and your 65t review (BTW - excellent review!) and request a chance to test the tips and provide your feedback. Worst that happens is you get no response or they say No.


----------



## Tulku1967

Project: Wireless BA CIEM making.
Materials: CIEM shell, Erato Muse5 iem, Westone W4r iem (only armatures)
I had to solve W4r 9 kHz peak (4.4 uF cap replaced with 0.33 uF cap)
Muse5 iem has the highest output power, so I chose (6.8 mW).
Result: A completely different sound signature than the original Muse5 ... balanced, somewhat dark, but neutral. Isolation maximum, environmental noises excluded.


I'm happy with the result ... a 4 BA wireless CIEM.


----------



## albau

mikp said:


> I have the 65t,would not mind a version with aptx.


But why? AAC in major characteristics is similar to AptX (if not better in some), and the codec is similarly widely supported on most source devices.


----------



## mikp

albau said:


> But why? AAC in major characteristics is similar to AptX (if not better in some), and the codec is similarly widely supported on most source devices.



Not hiby r3


----------



## mdickerman

albau said:


> My Jabra 65t Elite on Android phone (Samsung Galaxy S8) use AAC, which as I gather in the same league as AptX, above SBC. Jabras also use BT5 and it shows. I understand desire for a better sounding codec but why usb-c is so important?



I didn't realize AAC was a codec, only thought it was an Apple format. I have read up on it and you're assessment is right.

USB-C is important to me because it significantly reduces the amount of cables and other tech gear I need to use/carry. I've got a USB-C phone (S8+) and Chromebook and I love the convenience of USB-C (reversible connector, fast charging, one cable for all devices). If the next version of the Jabra's had USB-C, I'd be all over them in a heartbeat.


----------



## Hyperfluxe

Are the Jabra Elite 65t's suitable for a basshead? I was planning on buying a pair of the new Active's for the gym and I definitely prefer a funner, more bassy V-shape sound for lifting. I really liked the Bose SoundSport Free's sound signature but there was little noise isolation and they'd actually fall of when I would deadlift since they stick out so much.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

Hyperfluxe said:


> Are the Jabra Elite 65t's suitable for a basshead? I was planning on buying a pair of the new Active's for the gym and I definitely prefer a funner, more bassy V-shape sound for lifting. I really liked the Bose SoundSport Free's sound signature but there was little noise isolation and they'd actually fall of when I would deadlift since they stick out so much.



I would very say no. If you like bass and they're for the gym, Sony WF-sp700n by a country mile.


----------



## Hyperfluxe

Damn. Are they irredeemable even with the EQ boost app?


----------



## Hyperfluxe

For reference, they don't need to sound like bass canons but something like the ZA Carbo Tenore + EQ boost works great. Sorry for double post.


----------



## david8613 (Aug 4, 2018)

Hyperfluxe said:


> Damn. Are they irredeemable even with the EQ boost app?




i have not tried the Sony WF-sp700n so I can't comment on that model although I heard bass is excellent. I like fun v shape sound also and I can recommend the jabra 65t elite active, they have terrific bass not bass head bass but it's definitely not a flat audio file signature, definitely modern fun bassy signature. The earlier model jabra elite sport has plenty bass also with the right tips to get good seal, this one is also not bass head style but plenty bass for gym, this one has a lot of features specific for gym, heartrate, voice coach, rep counter, vox. I use them both all the time in the gym. I heard the Jay bird runs have great bass also, I have not tried those i don't like the control scheme.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

Hyperfluxe said:


> Damn. Are they irredeemable even with the EQ boost app?



Is there a reason you really want to get the 65t over the Sony? I owned both and returned the Jabra. They're pretty great, but the Sony is just better both in terms of impact of sound and gym usage.


----------



## Hyperfluxe

SomeGuyDude said:


> Is there a reason you really want to get the 65t over the Sony? I owned both and returned the Jabra. They're pretty great, but the Sony is just better both in terms of impact of sound and gym usage.



Mostly because of the praise on this thread and how well balanced they are in terms of sound, connectivity and noise isolation.


----------



## Spamateur

Hyperfluxe said:


> Mostly because of the praise on this thread and how well balanced they are in terms of sound, connectivity and noise isolation.



Don't forget battery life. Sony really needs to step it up in that department.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

Hyperfluxe said:


> Mostly because of the praise on this thread and how well balanced they are in terms of sound, connectivity and noise isolation.



That's great but if the praise they get doesn't line up with the needs of a given user then that's pointless. It's like buying a Tesla when you need a pickup truck because everyone raves about them.

I owned the 65t, elite and active. They're great all-rounders but I wouldn't buy them if you like a bassier sound or if you want them for the gym. They don't isolate nearly as well as the Sony nor do they have the ANC, the sound is less full, connectivity is a non-issue, and battery shouldn't matter unless you're running triathlons (again, they're gym headphones). 

The 65t also has wayyyyyy too much hiss for my tastes. It drove me up a wall.


----------



## david8613 (Aug 5, 2018)

That's wierd, I never hear hiss in my jabras. I had the prior model sony wf 1000x, and I absolutely loved them the sound was great, and the anc also worked very good, the fit was fantastic, very light, but the battery life was abysmal, I had to charge daily for gym use. I could spend any where from an hour to an hour and half in the gym, it would die on me regularly. The other reason I could not use the sony in the gym was the controls, you cannot control everything via the head set, you need to pull your phone out for certain simple things like volume control, I hated that! The jabras, b&o 8 and Samsung iconx 2018 do not have this problem you practically can do everything from the headset, volume, skip track, turn on/off ambient sound, answer calls, call Google assistant, I never need to pull phone out for anything really,  Very convenient! That's why I had no interest in other models like the jay bird runs that cannot control everything from the headset. I think you should buy a set that checks all your boxes feature wise, and then try them, if you dont like the sound sig just return them, and then try something different. I listen to alot of bass heavy music, edm hip hop etc. and I think you could be happy with jabras bass, it's very good imo. Just remember to make sure you get a perfect seal with the included ear tips, this is SO IMPORTANT! with out a perfect seal you will lose all your bass, and everything will sound like crap no matter what head set you use.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

david8613 said:


> That's wierd, I never hear hiss in my jabras. I had the prior model sony wf 1000x, and I absolutely loved them the sound was great, and the anc also worked very good, the fit was fantastic, very light, but the battery life was abysmal, I had to charge daily for gym use. I could spend any where from an hour to an hour and half in the gym, it would die on me regularly. The other reason I could not use the sony in the gym was the controls, you cannot control everything via the head set, you need to pull your phone out for certain simple things like volume control, I hated that! The jabras, b&o 8 and Samsung iconx 2018 do not have this problem you practically can do everything from the headset, volume, skip track, turn on/off ambient sound, answer calls, call Google assistant, I never need to pull phone out for anything really,  Very convenient! That's why I had no interest in other models like the jay bird runs that cannot control everything from the headset. I think you should buy a set that checks all your boxes feature wise, and then try them, if you dont like the sound sig just return them, and then try something different. I listen to alot of bass heavy music, edm hip hop etc. and I think you could be happy with jabras bass, it's very good imo. Just remember to make sure you get a perfect seal with the included ear tips, this is SO IMPORTANT! with out a perfect seal you will lose all your bass, and everything will sound like crap no matter what head set you use.



An hour and a half? Damn. I get at least 3 out of the sport model. I just throw them back in the case whenever I'm done. Simple. I don't really mind the lack of external controls, I'm exercising. The hiss was also an issue on three sets of Jabras I tested, on the left side each time. It was enough to be irritating. 

I also definitely disagree on Jabra bass. I head-to-head compared and the Jabra sounds dry by comparison. It has deep bass in terms of extension but the fullness just isn't there. This isn't a seal problem, either. 

Like I've said elsewhere, the Jabra is my pick for "all around" best. They have a great sound, connection is amazing, fit is comfy, great battery life, and they're better for calls than anything else, but for workout headphones just fall short.


----------



## gorman

Tulku1967 said:


> Project: Wireless BA CIEM making.
> Materials: CIEM shell, Erato Muse5 iem, Westone W4r iem (only armatures)
> I had to solve W4r 9 kHz peak (4.4 uF cap replaced with 0.33 uF cap)
> Muse5 iem has the highest output power, so I chose (6.8 mW).
> ...


This is what I would want some company to start selling. A CIEM with built-in bluetooth connectivity. Hopefully, by now, Bluetooth 5.0. My experience with previous versions of Bluetooth have been unsatisfactory to say the least. With my phone in a small pouch carried on my shoulder, closed with a regular zip, signal gets lost *far* too easily.


----------



## Zasz (Aug 5, 2018)

Hello guys,

I agree with SomeGuyDude. I own the Jabra Active 65t. I also previously owned a Jabra Sport sometime ago. I didnt like the Sport because of the seal, then decided to try Samsung iconx 2018. That got stolen, i survey the market for another set of true wireless. Against my own instinct from previous experience with Jabra, i bought the active 65t because of all the good reviews.

Here's my take.

Bad:
1. Very noticable white noise when the earphones are connected. Really annoys me. And i cannot believe all the reviews out there never mentioned this. I complained to Jabra and they say this is normal. I challenged them on this because i did not experience this on Iconx nor Bose QC35. They replied again by brushing this issue off as 'normal' due to magnetic induction in 65t..
2. I am starting to firmly believe that Jabra didnt get the seal issue with their earphones and wont get it until the company change their designer or design philosophy. I was trying to figure out why it wouldnt seal properly when i noticed how short their tips are. Why would they design in such way? Really beats me. What i did was swap with my unused foam tips from my old shure se215. That helped, but caused an issue where it wouldnt fit in the jabra case.. so i either squeeze it in the tip real hard or take out the foam tip everytime.

Good:
1. It does sound better than iconx. (But not better than a full wireless headphone like the Bose QC35. Recently i took QC35 and Active 65t on a 5hour flight. I found that QC35 is superior in nearly all ways)
2. Water resistance. I tried showering with the active 65t in the ears. It is still working today.

Conclusion/suggestion
1. The hiss or white noise is not about a defective unit, its a 'defect' in design since there are enough individuals complaining about it. When Jabra try to tell me the hiss i hear in my unit could mean i bought a defective unit I googled the web and found some users complaining of the same issue on reddit. Still perplexing to me why most of the commercial reviewers in the top google searches never mentioned this.
2. If you ask me personally, i would stay off the Jabra, because i really get annoyed by the white noise. Once you heard it you cannot unhear it.. I have better overall experience with Iconx 2018 although the sound is too bassy for my liking and a little less comfortable. Though the connection is no issue, the iconx have stronger connection and not once the left/right dropped out unlike Jabra. Also the app for Jabra is below average..

I listened briefly to the Jaybird Run recently and thought it sounded better than Jabra. Its water resistant too.

If anyone have good experince with other true wireless buds let me know because i just couldnt stand the noise from jabra and looking to buy another one.

PS: if only i could run with my QC35...


----------



## Spamateur (Aug 5, 2018)

I have zero issues with noise floor with my Elite 65t, and I tend to be very sensitive with that (went through probably $5k worth of sources trying to get one quiet enough for some highly sensitive CIEMs). There's definitely a noise floor, but it's not audible enough to be a problem for me.

I don't know if this would have any effect, but are those folks hearing a hiss using phones or sources that are Bluetooth 5.0 capable? I'm using a 5.0 source (Pixel 2 XL). Are you hearing it all the time you have the Jabras in your ears or just at specific times? Finally, are you on the latest firmware? I know they did some sort of change with the latest firmware regarding a balance issue with the left earpiece but I wonder if that could have helped any audible noise floor issues vs the old firmware.

And to those commenting on sound quality, I find the Jabras are "good enough" for the form factor, but they're certainly not amazing. The Bose Soundsport Free are still the best-sounding true wireless in-ears by a country mile IMO.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

Spamateur said:


> I have zero issues with noise floor with my Elite 65t, and I tend to be very sensitive with that (went through probably $5k worth of sources trying to get one quiet enough for some highly sensitive CIEMs). There's definitely a noise floor, but it's not audible enough to be a problem for me.
> 
> I don't know if this would have any effect, but are those folks hearing a hiss using phones or sources that are Bluetooth 5.0 capable? I'm using a 5.0 source (Pixel 2 XL). Are you hearing it all the time you have the Jabras in your ears or just at specific times? Finally, are you on the latest firmware? I know they did some sort of change with the latest firmware regarding a balance issue with the left earpiece but I wonder if that could have helped any audible noise floor issues vs the old firmware.
> 
> And to those commenting on sound quality, I find the Jabras are "good enough" for the form factor, but they're certainly not amazing. The Bose Soundsport Free are still the best-sounding true wireless in-ears by a country mile IMO.



Really? The Bose? I found them ridiculously unengaging, aside from the wonky fit and the downright horrendous call quality. 

Also I have an S9+ so yeah, bluetooth 5.0. Latest firmware. Had the hiss on two sets of 65t Elite and one 65t Active. Only in the left earpiece which made it even worse.


----------



## Spamateur

SomeGuyDude said:


> Really? The Bose? I found them ridiculously unengaging, aside from the wonky fit and the downright horrendous call quality.
> 
> Also I have an S9+ so yeah, bluetooth 5.0. Latest firmware. Had the hiss on two sets of 65t Elite and one 65t Active. Only in the left earpiece which made it even worse.



Yeah that sort of unbalanced level to the hiss would drive me bananas. I guess I'm lucky that I haven't experienced that with my set for whatever reason.

I think you've stated before that you like a V-shaped signature. There's nothing wrong with that whatsoever (everyone likes what they like), but those of us who prefer a frequency response that follows the Harman curve or a more natural, neutral response obviously don't like the sorts of coloration inherent to a V-shaped signature. The measurements of the Bose objectively confirm what I heard: https://www.rtings.com/headphones/reviews/bose/soundsport-free TL;DR: Essentially the Bose comes close to both a Harman curve type response and also has much lower audible distortion levels than most everything else on the market. And where distortion rises it's either at benign parts of the frequency response (bass) or only at really high volume levels.

If you like a V-shaped signature, that's totally your prerogative, but one man's "boring" is another man's accurate and natural.


----------



## howdy

Zasz said:


> Hello guys,
> 
> I agree with SomeGuyDude. I own the Jabra Active 65t. I also previously owned a Jabra Sport sometime ago. I didnt like the Sport because of the seal, then decided to try Samsung iconx 2018. That got stolen, i survey the market for another set of true wireless. Against my own instinct from previous experience with Jabra, i bought the active 65t because of all the good reviews.
> 
> ...


I have the Runs (that sounds bad to say) Jaybird Runs and these puppy rock!!! You get a good seal and wow! I have my custom eq set to my liking with Tidal and I'm just loving these! 
I also have the Sony WF1000x and love that sound to. I have not really done a comparison but one thing is for sure, both have very impactful bass. Both are great in this area. Above it was noted that someone only gets 1.5 hours with the Sony, I get an easy 3+ hours easily. No real issues with either really.


----------



## david8613 (Aug 5, 2018)

The jabra elite sports definitely need the tips changed out, I wrote about this before. When I first tried the jabra elite sports they sounded enimic, shrill, zero bass. I changed my tips with some cheapie spares I had, night and day deference. these are In my daily rotation i like them that much. to me the jabra 65t goes deeper in bass, where as the jabra elite sport has more impact.

I just checked both my jabras again to make sure, no hiss that I can hear. I think you guys had bad units, and was a bad batch.

All is not perfect with the jabra elite. The one thing I hate about the jabra 65t active is the case. It pops open when ever its dropped and the ear pieces go flying in every direction. The thing is it doesn't take much of a drop either. It's happened to me 3 times already from as low as 10 inch drop. jabra really needs to put a better latch mechanism like the jabra elite sport or the samsung iconx 2018.

One problem I'm noticing lately with my jabra 65t actives, my ear pieces could be in the case charging and when a call comes in and i answer the call goes to my jabras while in the case! I have to shut off bluetooth to answer my calls using the phone! Anyone experiencing this? Im gonna try cleaning contacts to see if that helps.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

Unless that "bad batch" spread to two separate stores and two completely different models of the headphone, I'm thinking there's more to the story. And if it did, that doesn't speak well to Jabra's QC...


----------



## david8613

Anything is possible, they make millions of these things. I have not heard it, nor any reviewer I have read mentioned this problem with the 65t or elite sport. What else could it be? Maybe it's your model phone, I'm not an expert so I dont really know, I am just guessing.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

david8613 said:


> Anything is possible, they make millions of these things. I have not heard it, nor any reviewer I have read mentioned this problem with the 65t or elite sport. What else could it be? Maybe it's your model phone, I'm not an expert so I dont really know, I am just guessing.



The issue is that, per a previous poster, Jabra themselves have stated it's just how it is. They're also the only model that do it. I got a pair of Bose, Sony, Jabra, Beats, Jaybird, and the Jabra were the only ones that did it. I've read elsewhere that the issue is in the fact that the Jabra don't both independently connect but rather the left is a slave unit to the right and something may be going funny with that. 

It's not an uncommon issue. It shows up in user reviews both for the Elite and Active. Even if it can be chalked up to an oddity that's phone model dependent (although if Jabra's having problems with _Samsung's flagship_ that's a whole other can of worms), but they're literally the only headphone I've had this issue with and I've been on a tear of wireless headphones for the last little while. I'm fairly forgiving with flaws in headphones as comments I've made elsewhere will attest to, but the left-side hiss was both readily apparent and only on the left side, so even if I wanted to just ignore it the imbalance was maddening.

TBH I'm glad you don't have the issue and I'm pretty jealous. I would have loved to keep them.


----------



## albau

Hyperfluxe said:


> Damn. Are they irredeemable even with the EQ boost app?


Irredeemable? How much bass do you want? To me they have plenty of bass even on flat EQ. I’m no bass head, but not a ‘balanced’ nazi either.


----------



## albau

SomeGuyDude said:


> TBH I'm glad you don't have the issue and I'm pretty jealous. I would have loved to keep them.


On my 65t Elite (non Active) I don’t hear any hiss either. On both pairs I have. So I’d chalk it up either to production variation or to individual hearing sensitivities of various people.


----------



## Zasz

Spamateur said:


> I have zero issues with noise floor with my Elite 65t, and I tend to be very sensitive with that (went through probably $5k worth of sources trying to get one quiet enough for some highly sensitive CIEMs). There's definitely a noise floor, but it's not audible enough to be a problem for me.
> 
> I don't know if this would have any effect, but are those folks hearing a hiss using phones or sources that are Bluetooth 5.0 capable? I'm using a 5.0 source (Pixel 2 XL). Are you hearing it all the time you have the Jabras in your ears or just at specific times? Finally, are you on the latest firmware? I know they did some sort of change with the latest firmware regarding a balance issue with the left earpiece but I wonder if that could have helped any audible noise floor issues vs the old firmware.
> 
> And to those commenting on sound quality, I find the Jabras are "good enough" for the form factor, but they're certainly not amazing. The Bose Soundsport Free are still the best-sounding true wireless in-ears by a country mile IMO.




Hello all,

I am on the latest firmware, and i dont think its bluetooth 5.0 issue. At first i thought it was my phone too but I tried it with various devices. The noise is still there.

I also updated the app recently, previous version has problems but right now this is ok. Theres some nifty stuff there as well so i will revise my review of that as positive altho not as good as bose nor samsung.

I also think the issue is as mentioned by SomeGuyDude, due to master and slave issue between the two buds.

I actually liked the sound signature of this Jabra which pisses me off even more because i could really enjoy using the iems. I hope Jabra can do some sort of firmware fix. I am commenting about this Jabra issue not because i hate Jabra per say but because i want to share my experiences with would-be buyers so they know what they are in for and to be aware of issues to consider. These jabra units are not insignificant in cost.

I think a lot of people here is returning good comments on the Jaybird, so i would be thinking about that. The bose has a very awkward look, just too much for me to even consider it (i will give it a listen when i visit their store tho..). Others i am looking at are the sonys, really need to listen to them coz there are some reviews about the misconnection between left and right. Maybe B&O too.

PS: David how did you get the unit to fit in the case after your little DIY. I will check back your post if i can find it. I was thinking of buying a set of comply tips..


----------



## nc8000

As of now I don’t think there is one stand out unit that really ticks all boxes, all units seem to have one or more issues so the trick seems to be to find the unit that has more ups than downs for each individual users use case. For me the Beosound E8 does enogh things right for what I need but they too are not perfect.


----------



## AnakChan

For the past few days I've been popping by the local e-earphone store in Akihabara to try out the true wireless demo units they have there (and they do have a decent range there, just see the pix here). I've been using my V-Moda Forza wireless in the gym and think my sweat has finally gotten to it that the music and Siri just pops out randomly.

Trying everything from the true wireless of  Sonys, Bose, B&Os, JBLs, Bragi, Eratos, etc. I think Jabra's have been sonically the most pleasing for my liking. The difference between the Elite Active 65t's and Elite Sports is a bit of a toss-up . The bass on the Elite Sports has a somewhat more holographic presentation however it can be overwhelming depending on the track/genre. The Elite Active 65t's are more tame by comparison but has a flatter/less holographic presentation. In the end I think I've preferred the Elite Active 65t and will pick those up tomorrow/Wed. I could always EQ more bass if I wanted with them.

Fit-wise, the Elite Sports were more snug but rather strangely for my right ear, is less isolating. The Elite Active 65t's aren't as snug but isolate better. I hope it holds in my ear during my workouts. Buttons on the Elite Active 65t's are easier to operate.

On a side note, I'm not certain why the Bose SoundSports and Sony WF-SP700N's rank highly as sonically they didn't sound as clear/crisp as the Jabra's - at least to my preference.

Despite settling my mind on the Jabra Elite Active 65t for now, anyone has any other recommendations for me to try?


----------



## murph65

Air-X - https://www.mavinlife.com/product_d.php?lang=en&tb=1&id=85

  Still waiting for these to go on sale. Has anyone heard anything? Even if the sound was just "okay", i could live with that with all the other features these offer!


----------



## mikp

murph65 said:


> Air-X - https://www.mavinlife.com/product_d.php?lang=en&tb=1&id=85
> 
> Still waiting for these to go on sale. Has anyone heard anything? Even if the sound was just "okay", i could live with that with all the other features these offer!



I have tried contacting them, none of the emails they have used are working (mavinlife\mavintech. So for now it looks like vaporware or maybe sold under different names.


----------



## david8613

These look cool. I like the idea 

https://newatlas.com/knz-soundflux-dual-driver-wireless-earphones/55773/


----------



## albau

Why most cheap (under $80) pure wireless IEMs, like those on Amazon, have all other typical controls (play/pause, forward/skip, answer/cancel, assistant) but *NOT volume controls*? Does it somehow require more expensive chips? Just wondering.


----------



## Nocturnal310

at what price point do wireless earphones start getting Westone 3 level?

and what are some brands to look into?


----------



## albau (Aug 6, 2018)

Nocturnal310 said:


> at what price point do wireless earphones start getting Westone 3 level?
> and what are some brands to look into?


Probably none. Among wireless I have Jabra 65t Elite and had B&O E8. Both sound like a decent $80-100 pair of wired dynamic driver IEMs. In terms of overall sound quality E8 is the better of the two. But even it can't approach Westone 2 which I have, much less my beloved Westone 4. Draw your own conclusions about Westone 3.


----------



## david8613

from the models I own you could try the Samsung iconx 2018 fantastic touch sensitive controls, but the sound is to me is flatter than jabras, a little less bass but very clean and clear.


----------



## nc8000

Nocturnal310 said:


> at what price point do wireless earphones start getting Westone 3 level?
> 
> and what are some brands to look into?



I like my Beosound E8 but on pure sq it is not even close to my Jays qJays V2


----------



## david8613

PS: David how did you get the unit to fit in the case after your little DIY. I will check back your post if i can find it. I was thinking of buying a set of comply tips..

I replaced the stock tips on the jabra elite sport with some cheap spares i had in size large, fits fine, case has no problem holding them.on the jabra 65t actives those tips were fine i did not need to change them out, perfect seal. On my Samsung iconx 2018 i brought comply specific tips for them, it changed the sound too much, took away all the highs and made bass sound bad so I went to some spares good to go, no problem with case either. I also brought spin fit tips size large and it was slightly too small could not get a good seal.

Oh I forgot the guy looking for bassy true wireless go to best buy and try the jams u!tra, I had them, these had way too much bass for me, but they had very strong connection, very light, 3 hour run time, with 10 additional charges from case, not bad. They feel a little cheap plastic wise but look nice, and fit good.They didn't sound great but not bad either just ok but that bass was so strong with these, it was beats headphone like.

https://www.bestbuy.com/site/jam-live-true-wireless-in-ear-headphones-black/5796033.p?skuId=5796033


Here is a review
https://www.soundguys.com/jam-ultra-true-wireless-earbuds-review-14207/


----------



## mikp

albau said:


> Why most cheap (under $80) pure wireless IEMs, like those on Amazon, have all other typical controls (play/pause, forward/skip, answer/cancel, assistant) but *NOT volume controls*? Does it somehow require more expensive chips? Just wondering.



I have the kozon a5, (goes by many names) one of the cheaper chinese wireless with volume control. It has all the features I was looking for:
-volume control
-skip tracks forward and back
-turn on and off without the charging case
-phone calls in both ears 
Sound obviously not as good as the jabra 65, but not bad considering price and features.

now waiting for something with the latest qualcomm apt-x to show up


----------



## Peddler

I second that - these headphones offer a very intimate sound and are crying out for APT-X (or better yet APT-X HD).

I have a strong suspicion that Sony are going to be first out of the gate with this sort of True Wireless headphone.

My wish list would be:-

Small, light and strong - ideally made from lightweight metal.
Deep fit.
APT-X HD and strong amplification.
Balanced Armature/Hybrid design.
Apple Airpod quality case/charger.
On-headphone volume, track, assistant trigger - preferably touch controls.

I have the following Wireless Headphones:-

Apple Airpod
SoundPEATS Q32
Sony WH1000XM2
Aqua Bluetooth Headphone Amplifier

I rate them all very highly. Apple and Sony have the edge over the others though.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

Apple isn't even in the same area code as the Sony. All they have is their integration with iPhones.


----------



## david8613

Are you guys using any digital audio players with your truewireless iem? I just picked up a sony nw a45 but haven't tried it with my truewireless stuff, I'm using it with my full size headphones right now vmoda wireless 2 and sony wh1000xm2, it sounds excellent.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

There's really no reason to. If it's going over bluetooth then your phone is the same as a DAP.


----------



## howdy

david8613 said:


> Are you guys using any digital audio players with your truewireless iem? I just picked up a sony nw a45 but haven't tried it with my truewireless stuff, I'm using it with my full size headphones right now vmoda wireless 2 and sony wh1000xm2, it sounds excellent.


I've been considering getting the Fiio Q5 which has BT and is upgradeable to newer versions of BT when the time comes.
And I can use it with my CIEMs.


----------



## Nocturnal310

nc8000 said:


> I like my Beosound E8 but on pure sq it is not even close to my Jays qJays V2


thanks a lot..i guess i ll stick with my westones till eternity.

i am planning to buy as a gift for my brother..are those with cable loop better or the individual airpod styles?

i feel cable loop must have some wiring in them and give more stable output?

shortlisted anker zolo liberty: https://www.amazon.com/Total-Wirele...keywords=Anker+Zolo+Liberty+Bluetooth+Earbuds

and anker soundbuds slim+: https://www.amazon.com/Anker-Headph...id=1534181561&sr=8-2&keywords=anker+soundbuds

the ones with no cable loop seem to have more customer complaints in general but he likes that style more.


----------



## nc8000

Nocturnal310 said:


> thanks a lot..i guess i ll stick with my westones till eternity.
> 
> i am planning to buy as a gift for my brother..are those with cable loop better or the individual airpod styles?
> 
> ...



For me the whole point is to go totally wireless but I expext that the ones with a connecting wire and a dongle could have better connection stability abd possibly longer battery life


----------



## Nocturnal310 (Aug 13, 2018)

nc8000 said:


> For me the whole point is to go totally wireless but I expext that the ones with a connecting wire and a dongle could have better connection stability abd possibly longer battery life


i think he was keen on totally wireless also as a volume control dangling is annoying for some

he needs for commute and jogging so i guess wired would be annoying and defeats the purpose of no wires..simply a cost factor u think?

also i think lot of these cheaper wireless earphones can only connect to 1 device at a time?


----------



## nc8000

Nocturnal310 said:


> i think he was keen on totally wireless also as a volume control dangling is annoying for some
> 
> he needs for commute and jogging so i guess wired would be annoying and defeats the purpose of no wires..simply a cost factor u think?
> 
> also i think lot of these cheaper wireless earphones can only connect to 1 device at a time?



I have only evert tried the Beosound E8 of the true wireless and none of the wire loop ones so can’t comment


----------



## Nocturnal310

nc8000 said:


> I have only evert tried the Beosound E8 of the true wireless and none of the wire loop ones so can’t comment


thanks..one last question...is audio lag when watching video a common issue with truly wireless earphones? 
do u ever feel it on beosound when watching youtube?


----------



## nc8000

Nocturnal310 said:


> thanks..one last question...is audio lag when watching video a common issue with truly wireless earphones?
> do u ever feel it on beosound when watching youtube?



Video lag appears to vary greatly between models. I rarely watch videos but have not noticed lag with the E8 with iTunes movies or YouTube on my iPhone8


----------



## howdy

Just received the E8s today and so far really impressed with the sound and they are really comfortable.


----------



## GJ2890

Hi. I'm reading this thread since a moment...
I was not ready to try "true wireles" headphone at the first time, but I ended up backing the EOZ Air project : https://www.kickstarter.com/project...st-advanced-true-wireless-earphon/description

After some delays and some improvments (they claim up to 6 hours for a single charge and 90 hours with the charging case...), it seems that the shipping is near. Hope to be able to give a feedback soon !


----------



## albau

GJ2890 said:


> Hi. I'm reading this thread since a moment...
> I was not ready to try "true wireles" headphone at the first time, but I ended up backing the EOZ Air project : https://www.kickstarter.com/project...st-advanced-true-wireless-earphon/description
> 
> After some delays and some improvements (they claim up to 6 hours for a single charge and 90 hours with the charging case...), it seems that the shipping is near. Hope to be able to give a feedback soon !


Interesting, thanks for the information! But they need to make their page more up to date reflecting longer charge claim. And also bragging BT5 comparing to the old Jabra Elite Sport is misleading and not very honest. Newer Elite 65t also uses BT5. In one year that 65t is being sold EOZ could've updated their comparison table. I also doubt that "instant pairing" is really instant (you still need to choose source in your device BT menu to pair for the first time). There are other questions: What controls they have on the earbuds themselves (especially volume)? Can it pair and remember more that one source device? Is there an App to EQ the things? They seem to not disclose  lot of things.


----------



## david8613

anyone running there true wireless with a dap? I am using a sony aw a45 with my Jabra 65t active, it actually doesn't sound that great, my note 8 sounds better, lol,. I noticed that when changing the the eq on the a45 has no affect on sound. might be a setting gonna play with it some more.


----------



## albau

david8613 said:


> anyone running there true wireless with a dap? I am using a sony aw a45 with my Jabra 65t active, it actually doesn't sound that great, my note 8 sounds better, lol,. I noticed that when changing the the eq on the a45 has no affect on sound. might be a setting gonna play with it some more.


Man, it's all digital. Your source device only matters in terms of supported codec. DA conversion happens inside your Jabras, not on source. If you want to EQ Jabras use their app.


----------



## david8613 (Aug 17, 2018)

oh ok duh! I forgot about that! I was messing around with wired with the new dap and got used to playing with setting on device! so when i went back to wireless i was like what the hell! lol...


----------



## SilverEars (Aug 17, 2018)

I just tied two Bluetooth headsets.

*Anker SoundBuds Curve* - Only $25.  Has AptX.  I can honestly say that AptX is real, it does make a difference.  Interestingly, SQ without AptX connection, this headphone sounds bad.  My LG Television has AptX, and watching bluray movie through it's AptX bluetooth connection is night and day difference from regular Bluetooth of my computer (which sound bad on the same headset without AptX).  Perhaps there are some differences in SQ caused by different bluetooth modules beyond AptX that I'm not aware of.  Movies through AptX on my LG television sounded fine.

I also tried it with my Galaxy S8+ phone with Tidal with AptX connection.  Didn't sound as good as the movie through LG Television.  Jaybird sounded better through my smartphone, and it's not AptX.  Jaybird outputs slightly more clarity, particularly in the mids, but sounds reversed L-shaped still (sounds like it needs some bass lift or treble is greater than sounding balanced).  Interestingly, Anker has wider sound stage with better imaging with location cues of the sounds.  It does have larger bass quantity than necessary and on the bloated side which masks the mids a bit. Did I say it's only $25?  Not much risk to try it out (I would recommend trying out this one).

*Jaybird run* -  Interestingly, SQ is pretty decent for headset that doesn't have AptX.  It's pricy compared to Anker SoundBuds Curve at $150.  It sounds slightly more articulate than the Anker with music.  The problem with Jaybird is that depending on the bluetooth connection, you can get significant audio/video sync issue.  This is due to not utilizing AptX (which has no bluetooth latency).  In terms of sound, bass does sound better compared to Anker (Anker's bass can get excessive at times, and can sound bloated), but bass quanity does sound lacking with uneven balance of treble to bass (more treble energy).  Downside is that Jaybird's sound stage is narrow, and interestingly, Anker has a wide sound stage, and has better imaging (there are placement cues).

So, in conclusion, Jaybird is not worth the cost compared to Anker.  If you have AptX devices, Anker SoundBuds Curve is worth it's cost, and perhaps even more.  Jaybirds on the other hand, given it's cost, should at least have AptX (which it doesn't) and the audio/video sync issue is a real shame.  Also, Anker has better sound stage and imaging.

I lied, I tried 3, and the first one I tried was

*Mpow Flame* - Which was #1 seller on Amazon with top rating (and pretty reliable score on Fakespot).  Only $20.  Seems like a winner right?  No (who says #1 rating on Amazon is meaningful?).  It's a terrible sounding headset.  No AptX, and sound muffled and one of the lowest in articulation I've heard.  I would not recommend despite the price.  Go with the Anker if your budget is low (Since I haven't tried many budget AptX headsets, I can't give a confidant answer if Anker is that great, it's definitely better value than the Jaybird and Mpow though).

If you are looking to use headset beyond music (for videos that sync is important), I'd look into AptX, and it seems in general AptX has advantage over regular bluetooth, but not always the case as the Jaybird exemplifies.


----------



## SilverEars (Aug 18, 2018)

Been trying out the *Samsung IconX*

I would say these are the best of the bunch I've tried so far.  Interestingly, sound doesn't lag as the Jaybird Run.  Very minimal lag when it comes to A/V sync.

I like the fit, the sound, and the package it comes with.  And, I didn't even try out the app either (will have to see what they have to offer, which is a bonus for me).

With these, sound has lots of weight since these are miles better in sound compared to the others I've mentioned.  Wide sound stage, more balanced, and better articulation and detailing.  With these, there is no discrimination of Bluetooth module connection to, in terms of SQ coming out of these like some others out there.  It sounds generally pretty good out of all modules.  What is really interesting is, these are not AptX, but  doesn't lag like the Jaybirds.  Perhaps, since it's a Samsung, there maybe Samsung's electronics to reduce lag.

I've tried all the tips it came with and these do seem finicky with tips.  You need a good tip seal to get the most out of it's SQ (which is true for most iems).  I like the feel and looks of these, feels premium.

There were at times slight crackle heard right after it paired and sound output begun, but it goes away over time I think (I don't notice crackle anymore).  I do wish it had longer battery life, and with AptX, it would be the most perfect wireless earbuds.

These do sound pretty good for Bluetooth iem.  No wires, fits well, and not bulky, so these are great for work-outs.  I do like these the best so far. These maybe the ones I will go with.  Stay tuned.


----------



## howdy

SilverEars said:


> Been trying out the *Samsung IconX*
> 
> I would say these are the best of the bunch I've tried so far.  Interestingly, sound doesn't lag as the Jaybird Run.  Very minimal lag when it comes to A/V sync.
> 
> ...


Did you ever try the jaybird app so that you can adjust the eq? I have the Jaybird Run, Sony WF1000X and B&O E8 and the RUN is still one of favorites. The B&O I just got so still adjusting to them.


----------



## SilverEars (Aug 18, 2018)

howdy said:


> Did you ever try the jaybird app so that you can adjust the eq? I have the Jaybird Run, Sony WF1000X and B&O E8 and the RUN is still one of favorites. The B&O I just got so still adjusting to them.


Perhaps I should try your suggestion, the eq in the app to see if I can get the sound to be more to my liking.  IconX was just more favorable straight out of the box.  I like the control more (Jaybird you have to press hard, whereas, IconX is touch), although, controls on small wireless earphones arn't generally the best (but, there must be controls on them).

IconX actually has almost 4GB of internal storage (in each ear-piece) and if you store music files within it, you can play music directly off the headsets (instead of streaming through BT from another device), you get extra two hrs of listening time (since less energy is drained due to no BT connection).  Caveat is that, each ear piece has it's separate storage that you must drop the same files on both (or music will only play on the ear piece that the file is in), which was odd, but this just confirms that battery life must be further prolonged due to this feature (each ear piece playing separately, not one streaming music to the other).  But, it's a hassle to drop the same files twice in each earpiece.

What I notice in regards to crackling is that my left earpiece crackles or drops slightly when connected to my LG TV via BT.  It's not excessive by any means, but it gets annoying when it does that.  I don't don't why it's only with the left one.

Since I notice there are two types of BT iems (the cabled one, that go from ear piece to ear piece, and non-cabled like the IconX and Jaybird Run), that had me thinking that it's more of a challenge to engineer the non-cabled ones.  The cable is probably for communications and power transfer if the battery is on one of the ear-piece.  But one thing for sure, the cabled ones have way longer battery life (perhaps due to this cable, reducing the power usage since left and right ear-pieces do not have to synchronize or communicate wirelessly together during usage).


----------



## howdy

SilverEars said:


> Perhaps I should try your suggestion, the eq in the app to see if I can get the sound to be more to my liking.  IconX was just more favorable straight out of the box.  I like the control more (Jaybird you have to press hard, whereas, IconX is touch), although, controls on small wireless earphones arn't generally the best (but, there must be controls on them).
> 
> IconX actually has almost 4GB of internal storage (in each ear-piece) and if you store music files within it, you can play music directly off the headsets (instead of streaming through BT from another device), you get extra two hrs of listening time (since less energy is drained due to no BT connection).  Caveat is that, each ear piece has it's separate storage that you must drop the same files on both (or music will only play on the ear piece that the file is in), which was odd, but this just confirms that battery life must be further prolonged due to this feature (each ear piece playing separately, not one streaming music to the other).  But, it's a hassle to drop the same files twice in each earpiece.
> 
> ...


I was going to get the Iconx but came across a great deal on the B&O which sound great out of the box as well no adjustments needed. 
I use my Sony WH1000XM2, B&O and WF1000X with my LGV20 and the Jaybird Run and X3 with an ipod touch .I also bought the Fiio Q5 to use all of them. I don't the Q5 tell Tuesday. I have gone totally wireless as the convenience out ways sound to me. I still have my CIEMS that ill keep forever if I need the wired sound. 
You definitely need to tip roll and play with setting on all wireless as they like wired need that perfect seal to sound there best.


----------



## SilverEars (Aug 18, 2018)

howdy said:


> I was going to get the Iconx but came across a great deal on the B&O which sound great out of the box as well no adjustments needed.
> I use my Sony WH1000XM2, B&O and WF1000X with my LGV20 and the Jaybird Run and X3 with an ipod touch .I also bought the Fiio Q5 to use all of them. I don't the Q5 tell Tuesday. I have gone totally wireless as the convenience out ways sound to me. I still have my CIEMS that ill keep forever if I need the wired sound.
> You definitely need to tip roll and play with setting on all wireless as they like wired need that perfect seal to sound there best.


Is B&O cable-less ear-piece iems?  Which one is that?  I may try that one out as well.  I agree with the wireless thing, it's growing on me, and what makes it interesting is that it's another quest to find the best one (within the criteria of being BT wireless).   I know we Headfi'ers share this common trait. 

And this is the area that engineers can be challenged to make new products that do much more and sound great, and keep making better and better with iterations.

Reason why I got into BT is because I yanked my smartphone while swinging my arms during a run, and I damaged the phone pretty badly (I realized then, I need wireless. LOL.).  And more I look around, I think about the features that the products provide, like waterproofness, Battery life, fit, SQ, etc..  It's not just about SQ if there is an application for the needs (there are additional criterias that must be balanced as well).

If sweat/condensation isn't your concern, you can get a BT module for your CIEMs to keep them wireless (although, stream may not be as good of a signal as a good sounding DAP/DAC/Amp).


----------



## david8613

The iconx 2018 was one of my favs, the touch controls were excellent. Sound quality was good, not great, I think the jabras are better in that department, especially with bass, sound stage and separation. I'm hoping samsung might have the iconx 2019 in the works.


----------



## howdy

SilverEars said:


> Is B&O cable-less ear-piece iems?  Which one is that?  I may try that one out as well.  I agree with the wireless thing, it's growing on me, and what makes it interesting is that it's another quest to find the best one (within the criteria of being BT wireless).   I know we Headfi'ers share this common trait.
> 
> And this is the area that engineers can be challenged to make new products that do much more and sound great, and keep making better and better with iterations.
> 
> ...


Yep, the B&O E8 are true wireless and have the sweet B&O sound. They are like a captive touch but take some getting used to. 
Have you seen the Q5 it has all the BT codecs and is upgradeable to newer versions.And to boot, has balanced out for my CIEMs.


----------



## SilverEars

I've been looking at Rtings headphone reviews, and they are pretty comprehensive.  Here are the graphs of the top contenders, Jaybird Run, IconX, and Jabra Active Elite

First, Jaybird Run.  I think the treble peak and the dip right before had me think reverse L-shaped.  Although the bass looks linear, I think I hear it as lacking bass due to the treble peak.  


 

IconX, upper portion 8-9k rise I'm not highly concerned with (as lower peak is felt most for me).

 

Jabra Active Elite, same here, although the peak is greater, looks similar to the IconX except the bass (that sub-bass difference from IconX may not be all that noticeable in difference)


----------



## SilverEars (Aug 18, 2018)

Here is the issue with Anker and kinda lines up with what I hear.  The bass sounding a bit much and too loose sounding reducing clarity in the upper ranges (bass sounds like that loose bass when you boost it).  They may have tuned it this way to compete with Beats, you know, the bass.

EQ would probably help (haven't tried), but I'd rather not EQ everything I'm using it with.  I can't EQ my television.  It would be nice if each device had a processor built in that I can tune the chip with a phone, and keep it that way for all wireless devices I connect to.


----------



## david8613

Very cool graphs, it's odd because I had both iconx 2018 and jabra 65t and jabra elite sports and I always felt the jabras had much better bass response. I got my iconx 2018 when they first released and I see alot of reviews later on talking about extreme bass with these, I always felt the bass was very neutral never too exaggerated with the iconx 2018.


----------



## SilverEars

david8613 said:


> Very cool graphs, it's odd because I had both iconx 2018 and jabra 65t and jabra elite sports and I always felt the jabras had much better bass response. I got my iconx 2018 when they first released and I see alot of reviews later on talking about extreme bass with these, I always felt the bass was very neutral never too exaggerated with the iconx 2018.


It's the sub-bass that has dipped, so you probably still hear significant enough bass above.  Or the measurements didn't have the correct seal.


----------



## bronco1015

Hey all, Aside from convenience, which I don't mean to minimize; What were some key things that led you to try True Wireless IEMs? I took a plunge yesterday and bought a pair of Jabra Elite 65T's yesterday in part because of some reviews I read, and because was able to get them 50% off through my work. I listened to them for maybe 10 minutes. Felt like I was listening to a cheap pair of IEMs from mid 2,000s. i'm going to take them back out of the box to see if I get a better result with different tips. Got these for the gym but i'm leaning toward returning them and wearing out my V-Moda Forza Metallo Wireless, which I've been using for the past 15 months. I have some Plantronics Backbeat go 3's I got as a gift, thinking of seeing what the market is like when both of those have died. or getting the M4U Tw1's even though they don't have BT5. Word vomiting here, but to wrap things up? What led you to switch to TW IEMs, and what were you using prior to that?


----------



## nc8000

bronco1015 said:


> Hey all, Aside from convenience, which I don't mean to minimize; What were some key things that led you to try True Wireless IEMs? I took a plunge yesterday and bought a pair of Jabra Elite 65T's yesterday in part because of some reviews I read, and because was able to get them 50% off through my work. I listened to them for maybe 10 minutes. Felt like I was listening to a cheap pair of IEMs from mid 2,000s. i'm going to take them back out of the box to see if I get a better result with different tips. Got these for the gym but i'm leaning toward returning them and wearing out my V-Moda Forza Metallo Wireless, which I've been using for the past 15 months. I have some Plantronics Backbeat go 3's I got as a gift, thinking of seeing what the market is like when both of those have died. or getting the M4U Tw1's even though they don't have BT5. Word vomiting here, but to wrap things up? What led you to switch to TW IEMs, and what were you using prior to that?



Convenience of getting rid of the wire is the only reason I bought my E8. For critical listening they are no where near even my qJays V2, but for listening to music from my phone while walking or in public transport the finer details of music are lost to background noise anyway so for they use the convenience far outweighs the loss in sq


----------



## SomeGuyDude

bronco1015 said:


> Hey all, Aside from convenience, which I don't mean to minimize; What were some key things that led you to try True Wireless IEMs? I took a plunge yesterday and bought a pair of Jabra Elite 65T's yesterday in part because of some reviews I read, and because was able to get them 50% off through my work. I listened to them for maybe 10 minutes. Felt like I was listening to a cheap pair of IEMs from mid 2,000s. i'm going to take them back out of the box to see if I get a better result with different tips. Got these for the gym but i'm leaning toward returning them and wearing out my V-Moda Forza Metallo Wireless, which I've been using for the past 15 months. I have some Plantronics Backbeat go 3's I got as a gift, thinking of seeing what the market is like when both of those have died. or getting the M4U Tw1's even though they don't have BT5. Word vomiting here, but to wrap things up? What led you to switch to TW IEMs, and what were you using prior to that?



Convenience led me to bluetooth in general.

My lineup included:

- Periodic Be
- Mee P1
- 1More Quad
- iBasso IT03

Over on the full-size side of things:

- HD650
- Audeze LCD-3

Now I have the Sony wf-sp700n and VModa CF2W Codex

So I mean you can make ridiculously hyperbolic statements about how the Jabra sound like cheap iems from 20 years ago (which is dumb enough to be pretty hilarious actually), but shockingly many of us think the sound damn good enough that the quality dropoff isn't an issue when balanced against the general ease of use and convenience.


----------



## SilverEars (Aug 19, 2018)

howdy said:


> Did you ever try the jaybird app so that you can adjust the eq? I have the Jaybird Run, Sony WF1000X and B&O E8 and the RUN is still one of favorites. The B&O I just got so still adjusting to them.


I think you are on the money.  Jaybird CAN sound better than IconX.  I was comparing the IconX and Jaybird Run extensively, and Jaybird Run does sound like it's capable of putting out more impact with greater bass with about as wide sound stage as the IconX.  The detailing is a bit better as well.

I think the issue with my initial listen was the tips that came with it, and the sound stage sounded narrow (so make sure to try all tips to get the best fit/seal). Also, the comparison was on my Samsung Galaxy S8+ with the Tidal app, and noticibly, IconX sounded better of all the ones I tried (on Tidal), and I do think with Tidal even on my desktop through the crappy BT module on it, Jaybird Run doesn't sound so good on Tidal for some reason.

What I found was that playing actual files through Foobar (on my desktop with the crappy BT module) I noticed that Jaybird Run sounded better than IconX.  The problem with Jaybird Run is the latency, and ear-piece synchronization issue.

Assessing BT headphones isn't as simple as I thought.  There are different BT modules that you are connecting with that can effect the sound in ways due to connection issues, and even the software (file types vs streaming) or the hardware comparability itself (as IconX is Samsung as I'm using a Samsung phone).

To get more complete assessment of BT module compatability and performance when used with various BT modules, you'd have to try out various BT connection with different devices with different BT modules.

So in the end, I take back about Jaybird Run's sound potential not being as good as IconX.  It can be better, but still there is the issue of Lag for videos.  Personally, I find that unacceptable at the price-point.  For practical purposes IconX does seem favorable, but Jaybird run CAN sound better (but, there are issues with dependency on module and lag, and probably device or app).  That's not to say IconX is without issue, I've run into some connection issue with my crappy bluetooth module on my desktop, and had to restart the computer, and afterwards, wouldn't output stereo (and I think this was something I wasn't aware of at times either, make sure that device you select is stereo, not voice!).  So, I'm realizing all these inconveniences and caveats with BT iems now.  For the gym with your smartphone, shouldn't be an issue though (but if you are trying to connect to everything of different types of BT modules, you may start to discover problems).

I like the tips that come with Jaybird Run way better than the IconX.  I don't like the IconX tips, and it seems dependent on bore size and tips.  If you don't get the good fit with tips, sound stage and the frequency response will sound drastically different.  The way IconX 's bore reacts with different tips is like how CA Andromeda reacts to different tips (you have to be quite precise on the right tips).


----------



## howdy

SilverEars said:


> I think you are on the money.  Jaybird CAN sound better than IconX.  I was comparing the IconX and Jaybird Run extensively, and Jaybird Run does sound like it's capable of putting out more impact with greater bass with about as wide sound stage as the IconX.  The detailing is a bit better as well.
> 
> I think the issue with my initial listen was the tips that came with it, and the sound stage sounded narrow (so make sure to try all tips to get the best fit/seal). Also, the comparison was on my Samsung Galaxy S8+ with the Tidal app, and noticibly, IconX sounded better of all the ones I tried (on Tidal), and I do think with Tidal even on my desktop through the crappy BT module on it, Jaybird Run doesn't sound so good on Tidal for some reason.
> 
> ...


I actually think that the Jaybird Run sound better with my ipod touch than my LGV20 both using Tidal HiFi. Also noticed that the Jaybirds tips are somewhat oval shaped and for me I get a good seal when the longer part of the oval is going up and down as how my ear. If its off at all I lose my seal.


----------



## SilverEars (Aug 19, 2018)

howdy said:


> I actually think that the Jaybird Run sound better with my ipod touch than my LGV20 both using Tidal HiFi. Also noticed that the Jaybirds tips are somewhat oval shaped and for me I get a good seal when the longer part of the oval is going up and down as how my ear. If its off at all I lose my seal.


When I tried the right most ones (imaged below), those fit me perfectly (and I think I got the intended sound response or the best to my ears).  I don't think I've ran into such shaped tips ever before.  When I first looked at it, it looked awkward, and I thought there is no way those will sound better than the rounded shaped ones.  I was wrong, those fit better and I get the ideal sound out of it.


----------



## bronco1015

SomeGuyDude said:


> Convenience led me to bluetooth in general.
> 
> My lineup included:
> 
> ...


holy cow SomeGuyDude, pretty passive aggressive and defensive for a pair of IEMs you didn't even keep.. Anyway, when I tried with other tips I got a much better fit and after EQing in the app, I found a sound I quite like from them. now only problem is that the right earbud is playing at a noticeably lower volume than the left. I would have expected the opisite if anything. I've unpaired, reconnected, and also powered them off, turned them back on, lowered the volume all the way then turned back up. That helps the problem some, but not totally. Anyone else experience anything like that?


----------



## bronco1015

nc8000 said:


> Convenience of getting rid of the wire is the only reason I bought my E8. For critical listening they are no where near even my qJays V2, but for listening to music from my phone while walking or in public transport the finer details of music are lost to background noise anyway so for they use the convenience far outweighs the loss in sq


Makes sense. I definitely don't expect to do critical listening with anything BT, for me, it's always served a similar purpose to what you mentioned you use the E8 for. But I had no idea what to expect so wanted to get some additional perspective. Thanks for your reply.


----------



## clerkpalmer

2018 has turned out to be a bummer in the TW space.  I was hoping for some second and third generation improvements particularly in the area of sound quality.  It seems like the space is a nitch for the moment and reserved largely for exercise specific uses.  Maybe the big boys will up their game next year and focus on SQ.  I agree that SQ is not bad on many of the current options, and certainly worth the trade off, it's time to get  some improvements.  Maybe Apple/Beats can do something in this space.  I'd pay $300 for a W1 chip with SQ improvements.


----------



## SilverEars

bronco1015 said:


> holy cow SomeGuyDude, pretty passive aggressive and defensive for a pair of IEMs you didn't even keep.. Anyway, when I tried with other tips I got a much better fit and after EQing in the app, I found a sound I quite like from them. now only problem is that the right earbud is playing at a noticeably lower volume than the left. I would have expected the opisite if anything. I've unpaired, reconnected, and also powered them off, turned them back on, lowered the volume all the way then turned back up. That helps the problem some, but not totally. Anyone else experience anything like that?


Yes, I noticed that sometimes if there is left and right sync issue particularly if you switch tracks with slow BT earpiece module, it will either crackle and/or one side will cut-off, one side volume would reduce.  It's not reliable across the spectrum of various BT devices.  I got to find out what are the possible differences of BT modules on various devices.

Jaybird Run sounds to have a pretty good transducer, better than IconX I think, but the the wireless circuitry isn't that great.  I would take something with IconX fit with Jaybird Run transducer with most reliable connection across all devices out there.  IconX touch control gets quite annoying.  Just by holding it, you accidentally trigger the voice coach.


----------



## albau

SilverEars said:


> Yes, I noticed that sometimes if there is left and right sync issue particularly if you switch tracks with slow BT earpiece module, it will either crackle and/or one side will cut-off, one side volume would reduce.  It's not reliable across the spectrum of various BT devices.  I got to find out what are the possible differences of BT modules on various devices.
> 
> Jaybird Run sounds to have a pretty good transducer, better than IconX I think, but the the wireless circuitry isn't that great.  I would take something with IconX fit with Jaybird Run transducer with most reliable connection across all devices out there.  IconX touch control gets quite annoying.  Just by holding it, you accidentally trigger the voice coach.


I had E8 and replaced them by 65t Elite which I currently enjoy for what they are, not more, but no less. Like with you it's my first foray in pure wireless (or just wireless for the matter). Among wired IEMs I have now Westone 4 and W2, had few others before. Among full size wired mostly listen to AKG 501 and HD580 via headlamp. So I'm sensitive to SQ. But as others have said I'm enjoying Jabras for convinience, mostly at the gym, while jogging and commuting on a subway, all straight out of my Galaxy S8 (with BT source doesn't matter, except for codec). Man, not having tangled and hanging cords that limit movement and threaten to yank out the stuff is trully liberating! Not caring about the source device is also quite an advantage  Yes, there's a loss of sound quality, especially compared to Westone 4, but I'll maintain that Jabras sound like a decent $80 wired buds with a single  dynamic driver. They EQ nicely via native app. With BT5 I have no connectivity or sync problems to speak of. Haven't noticed volume disbalance you're talking about. E8 sound better but I hated their touch controls and constant connectivity drops via BT 4.1. With pure wireless its all about managing one's expectations I discovered. Hope this helps in your quest .


----------



## nc8000

albau said:


> I had E8 and replaced them by 65t Elite which I currently enjoy for what they are, not more, but no less. Like with you it's my first foray in pure wireless (or just wireless for the matter). Among wired IEMs I have now Westone 4 and W2, had few others before. Among full size wired mostly listen to AKG 501 and HD580 via headlamp. So I'm sensitive to SQ. But as others have said I'm enjoying Jabras for convinience, mostly at the gym, while jogging and commuting on a subway, all straight out of my Galaxy S8 (with BT source doesn't matter, except for codec). Man, not having tangled and hanging cords that limit movement and threaten to yank out the stuff is trully liberating! Not caring about the source device is also quite an advantage  Yes, there's a loss of sound quality, especially compared to Westone 4, but I'll maintain that Jabras sound like a decent $80 wired buds with a single  dynamic driver. They EQ nicely via native app. With BT5 I have no connectivity or sync problems to speak of. Haven't noticed volume disbalance you're talking about. E8 sound better but I hated their touch controls and constant connectivity drops via BT 4.1. With pure wireless its all about managing one's expectations I discovered. Hope this helps in your quest .



I on the other hand really like the E8 touch controls rather than buttons but that’s personal preference and the droputs I get are the left-right unit link so has nothing to do with the Bluetooth link


----------



## albau

nc8000 said:


> I on the other hand really like the E8 touch controls rather than buttons but that’s personal preference and the droputs I get are the left-right unit link so has nothing to do with the Bluetooth link


Yes, you're right. But with 65t I barely have drops of any kind. And agree controls are a matter of taste. Guess I have just a clamsier fingers . Enjoy your E8, they indeed sound great!


----------



## noxa

Let’s face it we’re very much at the infancy of the future of all headphones, it’s a learning curve and it really is about finding the least weaknesses as we can at this point, I’ve have 4 pairs of totally wireless now and so far I’ve not been happy with any enough to keep but depending on usage and expectations there’s some good choices out there. I think the next two years we’ll see at least a couple of very solid products that will compete on SQ with any wired earphones, but for now enjoy the journey as it’s a bit like we’re all starting the head fi journey from the start again.


----------



## SilverEars

noxa said:


> Let’s face it we’re very much at the infancy of the future of all headphones, it’s a learning curve and it really is about finding the least weaknesses as we can at this point, I’ve have 4 pairs of totally wireless now and so far I’ve not been happy with any enough to keep but depending on usage and expectations there’s some good choices out there. I think the next two years we’ll see at least a couple of very solid products that will compete on SQ with any wired earphones, but for now enjoy the journey as it’s a bit like we’re all starting the head fi journey from the start again.


I'm looking forward to what's to come.  I want to see future products to compete with wired headphones.  I really like the compactness and lightness, free from wire of the wireless iems. 

For functions, I like the IconX as it has a sensor to detect when you take it off.  Jaybird Run, there is a button, and it's annoying to turn each one on (but it has function to use one earphone separately).  I want them to refine the touch functionality as it can get better if well thought out.  

As far as battery life, already IQbuds are capable of doing 20hrs for non-wired BT earpieces.  So, battery life will likely get better.


----------



## Tommy C

With the right fit the Jabra Elite Sport sounds good enough for me for on the go listening. Good bass, clear mids and mellow highs with a overall nice presentation and a sense of soundstage. They are waterproof and I have been using them a ton without worrying about yanking the cables.


----------



## SilverEars

Tommy C said:


> With the right fit the Jabra Elite Sport sounds good enough for me for on the go listening. Good bass, clear mids and mellow highs with a overall nice presentation and a sense of soundstage. They are waterproof and I have been using them a ton without worrying about yanking the cables.


One issue I can think of with these separate L & R earpiece types are dropping them in the hard surface.  Strong shell is an important criteria.  What I like about the Andromeda is metal housing that is indestructible.


----------



## SilverEars (Aug 19, 2018)

noxa said:


> Let’s face it we’re very much at the infancy of the future of all headphones, it’s a learning curve and it really is about finding the least weaknesses as we can at this point, I’ve have 4 pairs of totally wireless now and so far I’ve not been happy with any enough to keep but depending on usage and expectations there’s some good choices out there. I think the next two years we’ll see at least a couple of very solid products that will compete on SQ with any wired earphones, but for now enjoy the journey as it’s a bit like we’re all starting the head fi journey from the start again.


You know it's at an infancy when there is no big R&D dropped with large number of very capable researchers dedicating themselves to the best material and electronics from best audio quality possible.  Perhaps it's also due to being a niche market, and not a market that will reach wide range of people.  When it comes to imaging (cameras), there are companies doing much research.  I like to see that for audio as well.  Something that is more systemized than just some jo blo from Headfi that used to mod headphones, starting up a company (not that there is anything wrong with that).  That's the stage it's at right now.  I want more people to appreciate quality audio, and therefore more companies getting in the game doing big research so that we go at an accelerated pace to best audio quality for any applications.  So there would be more competition with high quality audio that would bring the general prices down, and not become expensive niche.


----------



## SilverEars (Aug 20, 2018)

I got the *Jabra Active Elite*, and must say it's the smoothest sounding wireless so far.  In a way slightly on the too smooth side, but it does seem to sound better than IconX or Jaybird Run perhaps (not so conclusive yet, but it's more similar to IconX than Jaybird in terms of sound).  I'd have to compare them in more detail, but definitely the treble on the Jabra is the smoothest.

I really like Jabra's presentation, and in terms of controls, they have the best.  I like the volume control, pairing, and personally I like it better than touch (I find it's necessary to have the pair or power button or control on the earpiece itself, and IconX I don't know how to turn it off, it's annoying when it automatically connects).  Touch can get annoying, prone to accidents.  I have a bit of an issue with fit though.  One of the earpiece is slight shallow for the best fit, and I wish that it was shaped more like IconX which I no issue with fit (but, I wish they came with better tips, not the best tips).  The tips that come with Jabra works well, and it's similar to Jaybird Run's.  I'm starting to like trapezoidal-cylindrical shaped tips.

It seems lots of thoughtfulness went into Jabra, but the fit can be better (for me personally).

I also got the *iMore iBFree* as well, and at $30 not terrible, but it sounds a bit treble emphasized and mids recessed (I notice that on majority of cheap in-ears it's the mids that fall apart, tune it with too much treble or bass, but generally mids sounding much worse than the acceptable ones).  I'd have to compare closely with the Anker Soundbuds Curve to realize which in general sounds better, but I find both don't have acceptable mids, both are more different than similar.  Anker has a bit too much bass, and the 1More has a bit low bass comparatively to the treble (which sounds a bit peaked in comparison due to the dipped mids and not so much bass).  So, out of the two, if you like lots of treble, 1More would work, but if you like lots of bass (not really quality, a bit bloated that interferes with the mids), it would be the Anker.  1More has it's typical shallow fit, and I dislike it.  Anker is better for fit, and another disadvantage of 1More is the cable hangs down (doesn't go over the ear, which is no no, prone to microphonics).  Both are AptX, so latency is no issue.  On the other hand, the Jabra has slightly more latency than the IconX

In terms of non-aptX latency for the top 3 sounding wireless I've tried is follows (lowest to greatest):

1. IconX (very acceptable, and very slight noticeable)
2. Jabra Elite Active
3. Jaybird Run

Jabra and IconX has the most consistency in sounds in terms of any connection.  And strangely Jaybird Run sounds best with file playback (I used Foobar on my desktop with bluetooth module)  than streaming.

Jabra is a bit more expensive than IconX, and if the fit was better on the one side of my ear, I would be fully satisfied with it.  Fit does effect the sound, so I'm mixed.


----------



## bronco1015

albau said:


> I had E8 and replaced them by 65t Elite which I currently enjoy for what they are, not more, but no less. Like with you it's my first foray in pure wireless (or just wireless for the matter). Among wired IEMs I have now Westone 4 and W2, had few others before. Among full size wired mostly listen to AKG 501 and HD580 via headlamp. So I'm sensitive to SQ. But as others have said I'm enjoying Jabras for convinience, mostly at the gym, while jogging and commuting on a subway, all straight out of my Galaxy S8 (with BT source doesn't matter, except for codec). Man, not having tangled and hanging cords that limit movement and threaten to yank out the stuff is trully liberating! Not caring about the source device is also quite an advantage  Yes, there's a loss of sound quality, especially compared to Westone 4, but I'll maintain that Jabras sound like a decent $80 wired buds with a single  dynamic driver. They EQ nicely via native app. With BT5 I have no connectivity or sync problems to speak of. Haven't noticed volume disbalance you're talking about. E8 sound better but I hated their touch controls and constant connectivity drops via BT 4.1. With pure wireless its all about managing one's expectations I discovered. Hope this helps in your quest .


 After Thanks for sharing your thoughts. After using these for a couple days now I still like the sound I was able to EQ out of the app, I agree, it's pretty impressive. I ended up exchanging them for another pair, and this one still has the volume balance issue, but I think I've found a temporary work around until it is fixed. With this pair the right one is the only one that turns on often, so I hold the volume down button for a couple seconds then the sound shifts to both and most the time has been even. If I can get these to work consistently without the previous issues I've mentioned, i'll keep them. I also agree about not having wires to worry about, feels a little weird but I like it. They definitely do sound like a decent $80 Single Dynamic driver iem, and that's just a hair under what I payed for them. These do sound way better on calls than the first pair, and the BT range is much better. about 3 times the range, and nearly on par with my PSB M4u8s


----------



## bronco1015

noxa said:


> Let’s face it we’re very much at the infancy of the future of all headphones, it’s a learning curve and it really is about finding the least weaknesses as we can at this point, I’ve have 4 pairs of totally wireless now and so far I’ve not been happy with any enough to keep but depending on usage and expectations there’s some good choices out there. I think the next two years we’ll see at least a couple of very solid products that will compete on SQ with any wired earphones, but for now enjoy the journey as it’s a bit like we’re all starting the head fi journey from the start again.


 I totally agree. We've obviously got a ways to go, but all things considered, I think it's off to a good start. I may end up keeping these, but may not and if I don't, i'll just wear out what I have and then look for a new pair as my last one is on it's last leg.


----------



## jant71

Still no actual ETA as far as I know or have seen but there is a newer pic of the Mavin model with all the colors in it...


----------



## mikp

jant71 said:


> Still no actual ETA as far as I know or have seen but there is a newer pic of the Mavin model with all the colors in it...



Their mail does not bounce anymore, but they do not respond. 
Also their Web page gets small updates now and then. 

Look at erato, they used to work with them before. But the no answer on mail is not looking good


----------



## jant71

I think they are working it all out but if they are truly working with Qualcomm then they should come and not end up being vaporware. What I posted was a poster for Computex. Anybody know if they were there?


----------



## Tommy C

I personally would stay away from all the small companies attempting to jump into the wireless game.  
There are some solid options out there and better spend your money on proven products with warranty and support should you need it.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

I have very little faith in unknown companies just springing up touting all the amazing tech in their products.


----------



## mikp

jant71 said:


> I think they are working it all out but if they are truly working with Qualcomm then they should come and not end up being vaporware. What I posted was a poster for Computex. Anybody know if they were there?



They have been pretty silent after the first press release the "tech blogs" jumped on, only that it should come with the cheaper new qualcomm chip with aptx. 

But I doubt this would be released, or else they would have been more professional about it.


----------



## SilverEars (Aug 21, 2018)

After trying out various earphones, I would say AptX doesn't mean better sound quality.  Two cheap-end earphones with AptX didn't output balanced FR and also the mids were lousy.

Top 3 for SQ were non-AptX.

That chip doesn't magically produce good SQ.  I'd look for AptX for guarantee of no latency, but not SQ.  The ones with AptX I tried sounded less natural.

I have yet to try a cheap Aukey.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

SilverEars said:


> After trying out various earphones, I would say AptX doesn't mean better sound quality.  Two cheap-end earphones with AptX didn't output balanced FR and also the mids were lousy.
> 
> Top 3 for SQ were non-AptX.
> 
> ...



Bingo. AptX isn't exactly expensive to implement and it requires absolutely zero actual work on the company's part. It's just a chip they slap on.

A wireless set with a good internal dac/amp and quality drivers running SBC will blow cheapass headphones with aptX out of the water every time. 

I'm not impressed by companies rambling about Bluetooth 5.0 and aptX because all that does is tell us about the transmission method, it has zip zero to do with the quality of the output from the speakers themselves.


----------



## Peddler

I agree to a certain extent - I really enjoyed the sound character of the V-Moda Crossfade Wireless headphones which doesn't have aptx but generally speaking I have found that especially earbud type headphones definitely benefit from using aptx. 

APTx tends to offer better treble resolution.


----------



## SilverEars (Aug 22, 2018)

For me, The best(that I have tried) wireless is a toss-up between Samsung IconX and Jabra Elite Active (although, I would like to have the best of both worlds).

Things I like about *IconX*:

-IconX is only fully wireless (I'm not talking about the left and right earpiece connected ones) earphones that has fast forward and revers controls on the earpice, and I find this to be very convenient although touch is prone to unintended accidental touch.

-Being able to store music in the earpiece (Although only 4GB in storage and you must store same files in both earpieces).  It's liberating to play music only from the earpieces without carrying the any other device to be paired with.

-Charge status outside on the case (Jabra unfortunately doesn't have this)

-Lower A/V sync lag, very minimal

-Lower market pricing

-The fit is the best


And the *Jabra Elite Active*:

-Physical buttons, so not prone to unintended touches like IconX

-Volume buttons on the earpiece.

-Can be paired from the earpiece

-on/off button on the earpiece

-Slightly smoother sound than the IconX (this maybe more of a preference thing between the two).



Personally, I'm leading toward the *IconX as the best fit for my needs.  *I realized I want all the controls I can get on the earpiece.  I want pairing, FF, Rev, Pause, Play, on/off controls on the earpiece.


----------



## Glebuzzz

Hi there, guys. Hope I'm right posting here.
What iem is better for sport (mostly in gym) use: Brainwavz BLU-100 or Edifier W280BT or Sony XB50BS? Just want ok sound (this is my priority) so my ears wouldn't bleed out. Aptx and other features (exept maybe sweatproof) are not important to me. Will be using my XDP-30R as source.
Thanks!


----------



## david8613

guys lately I am running into a problem I didn't have before. I noticed that my Jabra elite 65t active are staying connected to my phone even when they have been placed back into case to charge. I hate this because when a call comes in and I answer the phone I hear nothing in my handset because the 65t is taking the call via Bluetooth, I either have to disconnect Bluetooth on my phone or pull ear pieces back out of case to use them. the 65t never did this before and now this is happening all the time. shouldn't the Bluetooth disconnect from phone when I placed the 65t into charging case?


----------



## SomeGuyDude

david8613 said:


> guys lately I am running into a problem I didn't have before. I noticed that my Jabra elite 65t active are staying connected to my phone even when they have been placed back into case to charge. I hate this because when a call comes in and I answer the phone I hear nothing in my handset because the 65t is taking the call via Bluetooth, I either have to disconnect Bluetooth on my phone or pull ear pieces back out of case to use them. the 65t never did this before and now this is happening all the time. shouldn't the Bluetooth disconnect from phone when I placed the 65t into charging case?



Turn them off?


----------



## david8613

I understand I can do that but they are supposed to turn off automatically when placed in case, something has changed.


----------



## Spamateur

david8613 said:


> I understand I can do that but they are supposed to turn off automatically when placed in case, something has changed.



When you put them back in the case, do your earbuds flash with a red light? Mine do, which tells me they've turned off on their own. Make sure you're putting them back in the correct way with the charging nubs contacting each earpiece properly. If you look at the little indentations on either side of the case where the microphone portion of each earpiece is supposed to rest, it'll give you a visual cue as to where they're supposed to sit in the case.


----------



## albau

david8613 said:


> guys lately I am running into a problem I didn't have before. I noticed that my Jabra elite 65t active are staying connected to my phone even when they have been placed back into case to charge. I hate this because when a call comes in and I answer the phone I hear nothing in my handset because the 65t is taking the call via Bluetooth, I either have to disconnect Bluetooth on my phone or pull ear pieces back out of case to use them. the 65t never did this before and now this is happening all the time. shouldn't the Bluetooth disconnect from phone when I placed the 65t into charging case?


Could it be that you just didn't properly secure earbuds in the case and as a result they didn't turn off? Normally red light flashes on each bud to acknowledge. Jabra's case unfortunately doesn't have magnets to guide in, like it's with E8 or AirPods.


----------



## david8613 (Aug 23, 2018)

Spamateur said:


> When you put them back in the case, do your earbuds flash with a red light? Mine do, which tells me they've turned off on their own. Make sure you're putting them back in the correct way with the charging nubs contacting each earpiece properly. If you look at the little indentations on either side of the case where the microphone portion of each earpiece is supposed to rest, it'll give you a visual cue as to where they're supposed to sit in the case.



Thank you this helped. yes I place them in the case carefully and properly I see that when I put them back in case they do not light up red on buds nor case, only light on bottom in green showing its charging. something is wrong for sure gonna contact Jabra.


----------



## SilverEars (Aug 23, 2018)

I'm going to rant a bit now that I've been through BT iems a bit now.

It's not as convenient as wired.  Wired is very convenient.  You just plug it in, it's really simple.  Bluetooth on the other hand, there is the step of connecting.  You pair first, and then you disconnect or shut it off to save battery.  So, there that extra process there to use bluetooth.  Oh yes, and you have to charge it up (that's is the biggest gripe).  And this is on top of limited SQ options.

I think we should hold off on the truely wireless ones until they get it refined.  I've been noticing bluetooth connection issues with those.  The ones without the cable connecting the two drivers (IconX, Elite, Run).  Now I understand why the ones with wires across the drivers are more stable.


Now the question is, which is the best sounding bluetooth headphone that is wired across two drivers?  Anybody have experience with the Sennheisers?


----------



## SilverEars (Aug 23, 2018)

This is a request for Jabra regarding their Elite series:

Please make the fit more universal.  Please protrude the nozzle a bit or make the bulks shallower so that the nozzle will go into the canal deeper.  It's not going deep enough on one side (as I'm human and not perfectly symmetric), and I'm not getting good balance of fit on both sides (which effects sound balance).  It's a shame because it's the most stable truely wireless earphones.  IconX has issues of cutting off at times, not stable connection.  I'm gonna hold off on these truely wireless ones until a few things gets better.  Much longer battery life and stable connections.  I'm prettty sure the battery life is low on these truely wireless ones is because absence of the cable between the two drivers.


----------



## clerkpalmer

SilverEars said:


> I'm going to rant a bit now that I've been through BT iems a bit now.
> 
> It's not as convenient as wired.  Wired is very convenient.  You just plug it in, it's really simple.  Bluetooth on the other hand, there that thing is connections.  You pair first, and then you disconnect or shut it off to save battery.  So, there that extra process there to use bluetooth.  Oh yes, and you have to charge it up (that's is the biggest gripe).
> 
> ...



I would check out rha 750, rhp h2, v moda Forza Metallo. All have excellent sound.


----------



## howdy

SilverEars said:


> I'm going to rant a bit now that I've been through BT iems a bit now.
> 
> It's not as convenient as wired.  Wired is very convenient.  You just plug it in, it's really simple.  Bluetooth on the other hand, there is the step of connecting.  You pair first, and then you disconnect or shut it off to save battery.  So, there that extra process there to use bluetooth.  Oh yes, and you have to charge it up (that's is the biggest gripe).
> 
> ...


I have the Sony WH1000XM2 which sound amazing and have 30 hours of battery life.really comfortable but can get warm on the ear If its warm out.


----------



## SilverEars

howdy said:


> I have the Sony WH1000XM2 which sound amazing and have 30 hours of battery life.really comfortable but can get warm on the ear If its warm out.


I will be using it for running primarily so I need something that in-ear form factor.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

SilverEars said:


> I'm going to rant a bit now that I've been through BT iems a bit now.
> 
> It's not as convenient as wired.  Wired is very convenient.  You just plug it in, it's really simple.  Bluetooth on the other hand, there is the step of connecting.  You pair first, and then you disconnect or shut it off to save battery.  So, there that extra process there to use bluetooth.  Oh yes, and you have to charge it up (that's is the biggest gripe).  And this is on top of limited SQ options.
> 
> ...



If "pressing a button to turn it on" is enough of a hardship that it affects the "convenience" factor for you I can only imagine how difficult you find it to feed yourself and use the bathroom.


----------



## clerkpalmer

SilverEars said:


> I will be using it for running primarily so I need something that in-ear form factor.


For running  bose spundsport free.


----------



## david8613

Jay birds x3 are really good wired bluetooth iem, especially with app, I think it's the best app that really works and fun to use. 

I know some who dont have symmetric ears and they use a small in one ear and a medium in the other. 

Quality ear buds will have long battery life at least 5 hrs is good and will automatically turn on and pair when you use it and unpair and shut off automatically and begin to charge when put back in case. I love wireless for convenience, but I also love wired for critical listening.


----------



## SilverEars (Aug 24, 2018)

SomeGuyDude said:


> If "pressing a button to turn it on" is enough of a hardship that it affects the "convenience" factor for you I can only imagine how difficult you find it to feed yourself and use the bathroom.


I have to eat right?  I don't necessarily have to use BT right?  Like I said, wired you just plug in and listen.  BT, there's additional process.  I like to keep things simple, there are enough complexities of modern life, and like to keep whatever I can keep simple, simple.

Only reason for looking into BT is so that I don't yank the cable and smash my phone.  Otherwise, I prefer the simplicity of just plugging in the cable and listening without having to put it in the charger, etc.. There are more things involved.


----------



## Tommy C

I have been using the Jabra Elite Sport for 6 months now and have none of these issues. 
I charge them once a week - it literally takes than 1:30 hr to get the case and the earpieces fully charged. 
As soon as I remove them from the case they connect to my phone and disconnect from the phone the moment they go back to the case.  Only time that I need to press buttons is when I need to pair them to my work phone. 
Connection is rock solid and the fit is great but this is very subjective.  I had to get used to the fit but it’s great now. 
What am I missing? There is really zero hassle for me and being cable-free on the go is priceless.


----------



## sanvara (Aug 24, 2018)

bermitanyo316 said:


> I bought the Sony MUC-M2BT1. Sound quality is amazing. It's not a style everybody ascribes to (neckband style) but paired with my v30 (oreo) via LDAC with Optimized connection (developer options), sounds amazing. Before, wired and wireless sound quality difference was a chasm. Now, I could honestly say it has not. .



I have an S8+ that has Oreo and LDAC available. How much better will the Sony MUC-M2BT1 sound compared to the Jabra 65t I use now? The Sony are a bit pricey at $170+. I got a deal on the 65t for $110. Is the difference going to be subtle or fairly dramatic?

What about getting the Audio-Technica At-Pha55Bt for LDAC support instead?

https://www.audio-technica.com/cms/accessories/5b0f0f56477cc397/index.html


----------



## mikp

Some news on the mavin x

https://comingsoon-tech.com/projects/air-x-long-lasting-lightweight-earbuds


----------



## SomeGuyDude

SilverEars said:


> I have to eat right?  I don't necessarily have to use BT right?  Like I said, wired you just plug in and listen.  BT, there's additional process.  I like to keep things simple, there are enough complexities of modern life, and like to keep whatever I can keep simple, simple.
> 
> Only reason for looking into BT is so that I don't yank the cable and smash my phone.  Otherwise, I prefer the simplicity of just plugging in the cable and listening without having to put it in the charger, etc.. There are more things involved.



So, just so we're on the same page here:

Having to plug in and unplug headphones: Convenient

Having to press a button: Inconvenient


----------



## SilverEars (Aug 24, 2018)

SomeGuyDude said:


> So, just so we're on the same page here:
> 
> Having to plug in and unplug headphones: Convenient
> 
> Having to press a button: Inconvenient


If you like to see it as that overly simplified (which isn't that simple).

You unplug the headphone, plug into another.  Very simple.

You turn on bluetooth, pair, and connect.  Disconnect, turn-off bluetooth device. Turn off bluetooth on the smartphone.  Do this again to another device.  If you have two bluetooth devices, it adds more stuff you have to switch them out.  Or you can simply unplug and plug another?  Lets not forget that case you carry around to put in for recharge or certain ones you shut off.  Another process of taking them out.  I usually have wired one plugged in most times.  Just press play and listen.

This is not taking account other devices when you switch over as well.  Computer, TV, etc..

So yes, I thought about all this.  I would stick to wired, but it's wireless has it's practicality for fitness (which is a reason for me to have one, but other than that, I'd rather walk around with a wired one due to the simplicity).


----------



## SomeGuyDude

Er... you don't need to pair every single time. Nor do you need to manually disconnect. Once they're paired once, all you gotta do is on/off.

But hey, I suppose that's more inconvenient than having wires all over the place to snag on stuff, needing to carry the device with you, being tethered to it, having to replace cables when connectors go bad...

Naw man, I get it. Truly we live in dark times when we need to press buttons to turn things on. Our coal miner fathers and grandfathers are fortunate never to have been blighted with such horrors.


----------



## matneh

In an attempt to get us back on track (this is not the “why wireless is better than wired” thread nor is it the “why truly wireless is better than kinda wireless thread”)...

I have been really enjoying the Earin M-2.  They are super tiny, insert into my ears deeply enough to get a good seal, don’t fall out, have great sound (Knowles drivers), and no lag with Youtube!

Any other Earin M-2 owners out there?


----------



## james444

SilverEars said:


> I think we should hold off on the truely wireless ones until they get it refined.  I've been noticing bluetooth connection issues with those.



This has been my experience as well. I've tried 5 or 6 different models over the last two years, but none of them has been able to keep a reliable connection when on the move.



Tommy C said:


> I have been using the Jabra Elite Sport for 6 months now and have none of these issues.
> ...
> Connection is rock solid...



"Rock solid" as in "no dropouts"? And are you using them at home or outside?


----------



## howdy

I have minor drop outs with mine but it has never been to the point where it pisses me off. My Sony wf1000x will always drop out for the first minute or so than are fairly solid after that.


----------



## nc8000

My E8 also have occasional very short left unit drop outs but not enough to really bother me, and never a right unit drop out


----------



## howdy

nc8000 said:


> My E8 also have occasional very short left unit drop outs but not enough to really bother me, and never a right unit drop out


My E8 did that once and I had to stick it back in the case to get it working again. Still loving that sound though.


----------



## albau

Tommy C said:


> I have been using the Jabra Elite Sport for 6 months now and have none of these issues.


Same here with Jabra Elite 65t. I use it all the time not only inside, but on the streets of crowded Manhattan with its narrow streets and tall buildings. In several months I had maybe 2-3 short drops all together. I had much more problems with my wired buds being yanked by somebody or something on a street or subway. When it comes to connectivity in my experience 65t are substantially more stable than E8 I had before. I think Jabras using BT5 has a lot to do with that.


----------



## Tommy C

james444 said:


> "Rock solid" as in "no dropouts"? And are you using them at home or outside?



99.9% flawless outdoors and I live in a super crowded city. Only times that I experience a short hiccup hiccup is when I go through this specific electric door at this mall, other than that - no issues whatsoever indoors, at home or at work. 
It’s paired to my iPhone 6s or 6s Plus or iPad Air2.  
Jabra is alway on the ball when it comes to support and firmware updates.


----------



## james444

Tommy C said:


> 99.9% flawless outdoors and I live in a super crowded city. Only times that I experience a short hiccup hiccup is when I go through this specific electric door at this mall, other than that - no issues whatsoever indoors, at home or at work.
> It’s paired to my iPhone 6s or 6s Plus or iPad Air2.
> Jabra is alway on the ball when it comes to support and firmware updates.



Thanks. I think it's time to try a Jabra then.


----------



## jant71

Any chance we will get total wireless earhook design with MMCX. 
this sort of shape with formable ear hooks and battery/controls in the rear...




...seems good for sports, easy thumb behind the ear control, and use your choice of earphones.


----------



## AnakChan

My thoughts on wireless so far:


I've had the Jabra Active Elite 65t for about 3 weeks now and use them rather regularly, mostly in the gym. Before buying the Active Elite 65t, I was using the V-Moda Forza Metallo Wireless until it started developing some issues (music would stop randomly). At that point I started trying a bunch of different true-wireless earphones before settling on the Active Elite 65t as to my ears they sounded the most sonically pleasing of the lot.

The convenience of true-wireless is a welcoming blessing as the Forza Metallo Wireless tends to be back-heavy and when I run it would drop to my back yanking on the earpieces. Further at least so far, the Active Elite 65t is also more sweat resistant than the Forza Metallo Wireless (which is why I think my Forza started acting up). Thirdly, I do get more cut-outs with the Forza than with the Active Elite 65t largely thanks to Bluetooth 5.0. The shorter battery life of the Active Elite 65t has not bothered me much (my workouts are usually 1.5 hrs then back it goes into the charging cradle).

Having said all that, sonically, I do feel despite the Active Elite 65t sounding the best of the true-wireless, isn't as dynamic and as lively as the V-Moda Forza Metallo Wireless. To my ears it does sound somewhat "lifeless" and not as energetic. However luckily when I'm working out, I'm actually less focused on music than on workout  itself so it hasn't really bothered me as much.

My other alternative is the Sony MUC-M2BT1 which is hooked up to my FitEar MH335DW-SR. This is probably the sonically "best" setup of the wireless range that I own - not surprisingly since the FitEar is a CIEM. The MUC-M2BT1 is also weightier on the earphone end which means it balances around the neck more nicely minimising the unit from falling to the back like the Forza Metallo Wireless. However this setup is probably a little too "expensive" to ruin in the gym. I'm sure the MH335DW-SR isn't very sweat resistant.


----------



## mikp

I think the most important thing with TWS now is connectivity, battery and features. Audio quality is always good, but not the main factor. 

I have two pair that I use now, 65t and for bad weather etc. Kozon a5. 

Both have :
Volume control
Power on off without case
Skip tracks both ways

Also have f8 TWS 5.0, good connectivity but lack features.

And some QCY TWS that have crap connectivity, now used as singles.

Waiting for some new ones with the latest qualcomm, like mavin x.

But sceptical since they really have gone under the radar, but mavin finally finally answered me back.


----------



## sly_in_the_sky (Aug 28, 2018)

Hello,

I wanted to say that my left Jabra 65t accidentaly droped from a *3 m balcony *and I really don't know if it droped and touched first the tip on the floor absorbing energy but... It has no problem and is still working perfectly...

..love it for what they do when you don't concentrate your attention on the music.... but you have to concentrate yourself when you take them out from your ears...


----------



## albau (Aug 29, 2018)

Audio Technica announces its first-ever true wireless earbuds. Two kinds - "Sound oriented" and Sports. Latter are cheaper and strangely last less on a charge. Former enjoy 11mm special drivers and tuning described with lots of audiophile mambo-jumbo, BT5, AptX and AAC and no sweat proofing. From the photos to me both types and their cases seem really huge and somewhat ugly, bizarrely sticking up from the ears giving you the look of robot-elf designed by Honda. But maybe they sound like heaven, who knows . Let the guessing games begin...


----------



## Spamateur

albau said:


> Audio Technica announces its first-ever true wireless earbuds. Two kinds - "Sound oriented" and Sports. Latter are cheaper and strangely last less on a charge. Former enjoy 11mm special drivers and tuning described with lots of audiophile mambo-jumbo, BT5, AptX and AAC and no sweat proofing. From the photos to me both types and their cases seem really huge and somewhat ugly, bizarrely sticking up from the ears giving you the look of robot-elf designed by Honda. But maybe they sound like heaven, who knows . Let the guessing games begin...



Looks like they went the same direction as Bose with the driver occupying that large saucer-like protrusion. Strange about the battery life on the Sports version, especially since there was nothing mentioned about a heartbeat sensor or other sports-related feature that would normally drain the battery faster.


----------



## GJ2890

albau said:


> Audio Technica announces its first-ever true wireless earbuds. Two kinds - "Sound oriented" and Sports. Latter are cheaper and strangely last less on a charge. Former enjoy 11mm special drivers and tuning described with lots of audiophile mambo-jumbo, BT5, AptX and AAC and no sweat proofing. From the photos to me both types and their cases seem really huge and somewhat ugly, bizarrely sticking up from the ears giving you the look of robot-elf designed by Honda. But maybe they sound like heaven, who knows . Let the guessing games begin...



They are really huge (and personnaly I find them ugly too...). The specs for the "music oriented" look interesting tough. But at this price and for this look, I prefer a "necklace bluetooth in-ears headphone" or on-ear headphones
Sennheiser could present a true wireless in-ear tomorrow, let's hope it will be the case.


----------



## david8613

Ugly! Big!


----------



## jant71 (Aug 29, 2018)

Spamateur said:


> Looks like they went the same direction as Bose with the driver occupying that large saucer-like protrusion. Strange about the battery life on the Sports version, especially since there was nothing mentioned about a heartbeat sensor or other sports-related feature that would normally drain the battery faster.



Don't see BT 5.0 mentioned for the sport version. Not the latest stuff in it apparently so not as efficient and can't get the battery life. IPX5 when newer stuff is more often IPX7 now. Only $50 less than the Sound Reality and you lose quite a bit. Actually reading the specs it is BT 4.2. https://www.audio-technica.com/cms/headphones/1120979bd3a753ac/index.html


----------



## GJ2890

As expected, Sennheiser has announced true wireless in-ears. 

More info at : https://en-de.sennheiser.com/the-essence-of-momentum-in-a-truly-wireless-form


----------



## jant71 (Aug 30, 2018)

Still pretty big and only 4 hours battery and only 12 total with the case. Better looking than the AT stuff but pricey and why no ear stabilizers? Seems no quick charge ability either. Not very feature rich for $300. They need to sound really good and not have any connection issues. Almost December when these will be available and we will probably have more fall releases and be hearing about new ones to be shown at CES so plenty of tough competiton.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

If I'm seeing it right, the stabilizers aren't really that necessary as long as the housing is good, but I dunno. I really appreciate the fins on the Sony, even though I had zero issues with the Jabra despite having no fin.


----------



## albau

SomeGuyDude said:


> If I'm seeing it right, the stabilizers aren't really that necessary as long as the housing is good, but I dunno. I really appreciate the fins on the Sony, even though I had zero issues with the Jabra despite having no fin.


Same here. Personally don't see much value in hooks and fins. Seems they are more like psychological crutches (pun intended). I exercise rather vigorously and my Jabras 65t always stay secure, same was with B&O E8 and most wired IEMs.


----------



## david8613

Just saw this, crazy battery. Wonder how they sound.

https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/..._campaign=GadgetFlow&utm_content=GadgetFlow#/


----------



## albau (Aug 30, 2018)

david8613 said:


> Just saw this, crazy battery. Wonder how they sound.


Seem nice but wonder how SQ will fair with all the shortcuts they took to cram relatively huge battery into a small housing. Drivers are already small at 6mm (11mm for AT SoundReality, 8mm for Senns), probably internal acoustic paths and chambers had to be compromised also. Haven't seen them mentioning app with EQ and AAC/AptX codecs. But latter is probably given with latest Qualcomm chip. Everything else seems to check all the marks - price, battery, IPX5, small, look good, magnetic case, BT5, latest chips, on-board volume control, Complys. To me 15 hours on a charge is nice but not required. I never use my 65t more than 3 hours in a row, even on transatlantic flights. I like for my pure wireless to most of all sound great with EQ customization and then have stable connectivity, stay secure and comfortable in ears, have full and intuitive on-board controls and clear mics for calls and not to look ridiculous. Everything else is icing on a cake.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

david8613 said:


> Just saw this, crazy battery. Wonder how they sound.
> 
> https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/..._campaign=GadgetFlow&utm_content=GadgetFlow#/



Considering the campaign makes zero mention of sound and won't shut up about battery life, my guess is "not very good."


----------



## ma2k5 (Aug 31, 2018)

SomeGuyDude said:


> Considering the campaign makes zero mention of sound and won't shut up about battery life, my guess is "not very good."



Great for those who just use it to listen to radio talk shows/pod casts or lectures I guess.

I think they missed a trick by not targetting say 8-12 hours instead of 15, since I think the majority would be happy for normal all day battery life usage.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

ma2k5 said:


> Great for those who just use it to listen to radio talk shows/pod casts or lectures I guess.
> 
> I think they missed a trick by not targetting say 8-12 hours instead of 15, since I think the majority would be happy for normal all day battery life usage.



I could see it being really nice for audiobooks, but yeah.

I'm honestly really concerned by how many wireless products tout everything except the actual sound coming out of the damn things. They'll yap about Bluetooth 5.0 and an aptX chip, talk about battery life and the nifty-boots touch controls, but it's like the whole "headphone" part of the product has completely fallen by the wayside. It's like they're all tech companies who just toss some random chinese OEM drivers in a housing and then focus on everything else. 

I'm glad companies like Senn, Jabra, Sony, and AT are taking the torch on this one and actually working on making good, quality audio products that also use the tech.


----------



## jant71 (Sep 1, 2018)

SomeGuyDude said:


> I'm glad companies like Senn, Jabra, Sony, and AT are taking the torch on this one and actually working on making good, quality audio products that also use the tech.



Sony use the tech huh?

https://www.sony.co.uk/electronics/truly-wireless/wf-sp900

A cool design that is pretty well though out. MP3 player inside, ambient sound mode, waterproof. Totally let down with BT 4.0, 3 hours battery life, and only SBC and AAC codecs. Of course it is the end of 2018. What makes them think this is good enough? Why give it ambient sound mode with that battery life. They are sure to have the big asterisk there stating the battery figures are for ambient mode off. What do you get 1.5 hours using ambient mode?

Would be pretty nice if they did use the tech


----------



## SomeGuyDude

jant71 said:


> Sony use the tech huh?
> 
> https://www.sony.co.uk/electronics/truly-wireless/wf-sp900
> 
> ...



BT 5.0 means dick, hell the VModa's still use 3.0, the wf line is about gym use (I have the sp700n) so they don't need massive battery life since they're focusing on other things, and since all MODERN mobile devices use AAC you're going to see a lot of companies dump aptX from their compatibility (B&O did the same).

"Totally let down by BT 4.0" LMAO


----------



## SilverEars (Sep 1, 2018)

I just tried out BeatsX.  I think it's one of the better sounding BT earphones.  You can tell the SQ is better than those cheap BT iems.  The treble is pretty smooth, fit is good with the tips.

What's really cool about these is that you can get 2hrs of playtime from 5min of charge (well, at least advertised).  Also, no lag on my computer.  I think the BT module is quality.  Interstingly, NO AptX, NO lag!!  So, I'm starting to see that AptX isn't really necessary.

Couple things I dislike is the cable between the earpies, and the weight.  It's a weighty cable.

I won't be going full true wireless yet.  I find that the cabled ones are most reliable, and will probably end up with BeatsX due to sound and reliability.


----------



## jant71

SomeGuyDude said:


> BT 5.0 means dick, hell the VModa's still use 3.0, the wf line is about gym use (I have the sp700n) so they don't need massive battery life since they're focusing on other things, and since all MODERN mobile devices use AAC you're going to see a lot of companies dump aptX from their compatibility (B&O did the same).
> 
> "Totally let down by BT 4.0" LMAO



It signals the newer chips which have better efficiency and battery life. I don't care about version either as far as some things. The new AT has the new stuff and gets 6 hours with good codes and an AK DAC inside of it while the AT sports model drops back and gets lower battery. My 2.1 Philips perform better than my 4.1 Edifier cans but the Philips gets 9 hours and the Edifier gets 20 even being smaller and lighter. Antenna  can be fine but I did not mention that and the Sony isn't out yet so connection/stability are not known yet.

Should we take a poll and see if people are on board with paying $250 for a 9XX series model give us even their own LDAC or a more current tech inside to give us more than 3 hour battery life with just SBC and no ambient or other modes enabled.

 The Samsung model has fitness tracker, 4GB MP3 player with 7 hours battery life and 5 hours BT streaming, has quickcharge, . 

If we take a poll and it is indeed LMAO funny that I or someone could be let down that the Sony can't match the Samsung specs I'll leave the thread forever.


----------



## albau (Sep 1, 2018)

BT5 means dick only if you use old dick phone that doesn't have it. 2mbps vs 1mbps means not only higher bitrate for your transmission and thus better possible SQ. It also means more bandwidth for retransmission of the lost data packets and thus less sound drops. Which 65t clearly shows. What really doesn't mean dick is AptX vs AAC. Both provide similar dynamic and quality characteristics for their respective lossy compression and both are comparably better than SBC. AptX Advanced which is implemented on the newest Qualcomm chips is another story. It supports variable bitrate depending upon various factors like the type of source audio (speech vs music), but also takes into account ambient noise situation at the receiving end (indoors vs outdoors). All this could make a huge difference in SQ.


----------



## james444

SomeGuyDude said:


> *BT 5.0 means dick*, hell the VModa's still use 3.0, the wf line is about gym use (I have the sp700n) so they don't need massive battery life since they're focusing on other things, and since all MODERN mobile devices use AAC you're going to see a lot of companies dump aptX from their compatibility (B&O did the same).
> 
> "Totally let down by BT 4.0" LMAO



BT 5.0 can stream audio from a single source to more than one receiver. This means a lot for fully wireless IEMs, because it eliminates the need for the earpieces to communicate with each other.

Prior to BT 5.0, transmission had to be: source --> master earpiece --- (through / around the head) ---> slave earpiece. In this configuration, traversing the head is the main cause for signal dropout.

I don't know whether current BT 5.0 implementations are already streaming to both earpieces simultaneously. But if they do, this should result in better signal reliability.


----------



## SilverEars (Sep 1, 2018)

SilverEars said:


> I just tried out BeatsX.  I think it's one of the better sounding BT earphones.  You can tell the SQ is better than those cheap BT iems.  The treble is pretty smooth, fit is good with the tips.
> 
> What's really cool about these is that you can get 2hrs of playtime from 5min of charge (well, at least advertised).  Also, no lag on my computer.  I think the BT module is quality.  Interstingly, NO AptX, NO lag!!  So, I'm starting to see that AptX isn't really necessary.
> 
> ...


Ok, so lag time is probably the best of all I tried(and it's not aptX!)  I really didn't notice lag with my computer or my phone, and on my TV, only through it's streaming software Netflix I have noticed very minimal A/V lag (which is quite acceptable).  With Blu Ray player through the TV however, no lag.

In terms of sound sig, it's not so excessive as what I expected of Beats bass, but it does have slight bloom to it (which isn't nearly as bad as one of the cheap BT earbud (Mpow) which relatively mids didn't sound all the coherent).  I think the bass could be a bit better with better mids (perhaps raise slightly?) articulation (I'm being a bit picky here for BT earphone, as I have not run into one that perform comparatively to top tier wired).  I think in general mids could be better, but overall it's pretty smooth sounding (treble).  Perhaps, it's the slight bloomier bass that creates this.  Overall, very clean sounding earphone with smooth treble (which I find is really important comparatively to the cheap earbuds with screechy treble).

I think it being Beats, they prefer to tune the bass in such a way?

Sound stage isn't that large (I think Jabra, Jaybird, or the IconX has larger sound stage), but I think it sounds clean for watching videos with dialog.  I had issues with one BT earphone that had too much bloomy bass with low mids coherency(Mpow), which didn't cut it for video watching with dialog.  Bass isn't nearly as bloomy as the cheap earphones or the treble too excessive (the cheap earphones has thick and peaky treble sounding screechy).

One really important thing.  The flat cable was a bad choice.  It's a bit stiff and causes micro-phonics.  I wish they used cloth fiber surface material to reduce friction to skin (the way it folds, it rubs to skin), and the plastic bulk(the weighty part) that rests on the base of the back of neck isn't helping either.  When I move my head, I hear the micro-phonics.  That's the main caveat.

As far as tips, they are good tips that I found one that fit well with no channel imbalance heard.  The only caveat is the double flange provided.  It was only a single set and the fit is too shallow for my ears to fit right.


----------



## nc8000

james444 said:


> BT 5.0 can stream audio from a single source to more than one receiver. This means a lot for fully wireless IEMs, because it eliminates the need for the earpieces to communicate with each other.
> 
> Prior to BT 5.0, transmission had to be: source --> master earpiece --- (through / around the head) ---> slave earpiece. In this configuration, traversing the head is the main cause for signal dropout.
> 
> I don't know whether current BT 5.0 implementations are already streaming to both earpieces simultaneously. But if they do, this should result in better signal reliability.



But does BT5 know to stream just the left channel to the left earpiece and the right channel to the right earpiece or does it stream the full stereo signal to both earpieces and they each then have to eliminate the channel not needed ?


----------



## god-bluff

Sennheiser Momentum True Wireless have been announced. Measly £300!! I believe 

Wonder how they compare with WF-1000X? Can't imagine them being much better?!?!


----------



## clerkpalmer

They look nice but at 300 that's going to be a tough sell. E8 did okay I guess. Doesn't look ideal for the gym however.


----------



## james444

nc8000 said:


> But does BT5 know to stream just the left channel to the left earpiece and the right channel to the right earpiece or does it stream the full stereo signal to both earpieces and they each then have to eliminate the channel not needed ?



Sorry, I'll have to eat my words. I was going by this article, which states that dual audio is part of Bluetooth 5.0. However, according to this article, it's a proprietary feature of Qualcomm and Broadcom and not part of the Bluetooth 5 standard.

Anyway, the A2DP profile and most codecs I know support single channel (mono) transmission. So, in theory, the sender could transmit each channel separately. That said, Bluetooth 5.0 offers more than enough bandwidth for simultaneous stereo transmission as well.


----------



## SilverEars (Sep 1, 2018)

clerkpalmer said:


> They look nice but at 300 that's going to be a tough sell. E8 did okay I guess. Doesn't look ideal for the gym however.


It's double the price of IconX, Jabra, or airpods.  Definitely a tough sell with the competition.  Perhaps it has an advantage over the others in SQ, but in this domain, there's more to it than just SQ.  Connection reliability and design.

In terms of design, I don't like the outer material on the case being cloth.  The market for these types of earphones will likely be those primarily takes it for physical activities, and the case should be small, and easy to maintain, not some cloth material to get dirty.




I like IconX case the best.  It has two leds status lights in the front, and one in the back.  The ones in the front tells you the charge status of each earpiece, and the one in the back tells you the charge status of the charging case.  It's a simple plastic, that is small, easy to fit in the pocket, and that should work.  Other cases I've seen doesn't provide such way of status indicators (you have to push a button, open up the led, etc..).  IconX case is very quick and easy to see the battery status.  I've also ran into a case when you flip it, the charging connection gets misplaced, so the case should be stable inside once shut, and in the pocket walking around.



Going through all these BT earphones, I have an idea of all the good aspects from different earphones for the best one.  So, none of them have all the best features.


----------



## SilverEars (Sep 1, 2018)

Initially I thought the fit was pretty much on point, but over a period of listening I realized it can be better (referring to BeatsX).

I mentioned earlier the sound stage is not that large, and the way it sounded, I had a gut feeling I'm not achiving maximum SQ.  So what did decide to do?  I opened up my box O tips!  In which I recommend people to do if it sounds like something is off (I think we all develop this gut feeling after a bit of experience of using universal iems).  Also a gut feeling on bore sizing and sound stage, and overall FR.  I always felt that a type of seal, insertion depth, and bore sizing of the tips contributes to how you hear the sound.  The way it sounded, it sounded like how I hear narrower bore sized tips, and looked into trying out the famous Star Tips from KZ iems.  I think that did it, and for some reason it's bore size and fit is ideal to be to get the best sound in all cases.  I think we all have a preferred set of tips that most often puts out maximum SQ.



I have the cable flug outward (not touching my skin), so micro-phonics doesn't happen as it's not touching me (but for running I can foresee this issue, perhaps there is a solution for this).

I got to admit, I would have never foreseen myself go for Beats!  I thought Beats were for a cool image, and these iems doesn't really look cool at all (with the cable flung out).  I feel like I'm not getting the real benefit of wearing Beats.


----------



## vladzakhar

I have my Earin M2 earphones for one week now. 
Simply, the best on the market for now imho.
Small, made of metal, they just disappear in my ears.
They sound better then Jabras which I used to struggle with for their mechanical artificial sound.
Some people saying here, the M2s are flat. Totally disagree with this statement. 
They keep working for more then 4 hours, BT is super stable. I didn't have any dropouts, even in NYC.
I love the case design, also made of metal, pocket friendly with extra juice for 2-3 more charges.
Tried them in the gym: they steady stay in my ears and the don't loose the Bass like Jabras.
Also, they don't hiss like Jabras.
I like that the both earphones can work as right or left piece. Don't need to look for R or L then inserting.
I only use them for listening to the music. Can't say anything about phone call futures.

The only drawback is that because they are so small, you have to be very careful not to loose it.


----------



## MIBUK (Sep 1, 2018)

vladzakhar said:


> I have my Earin M2 earphones for one week now.
> Simply, the best on the market for now imho.
> Small, made of metal, they just disappear in my ears.
> They sound better then Jabras which I used to struggle with for their mechanical artificial sound.
> ...



I have the Earin M2s and agree with you totally. Use them at the gym and commuting and mainly for music & podcasts. They are so small & discreet.

If you don’t use them for a while, have you noticed that the main charging unit loses its charge gradually? Maybe that’s by design? Anyway, I’m very happy with them. The sound is good and they’ll do for a year or so until someone brings out something a lot better.


----------



## vladzakhar

Yea, that another drawback I forgot to mention. The don't keep the charge well if not used and not in the case. This is why the case needs to be around all the time. Being so compact, I can carry the case in my pocket.


----------



## SilverEars (Sep 1, 2018)

SilverEars said:


> I've been looking at Rtings headphone reviews, and they are pretty comprehensive.  Here are the graphs of the top contenders, Jaybird Run, IconX, and Jabra Active Elite
> 
> First, Jaybird Run.  I think the treble peak and the dip right before had me think reverse L-shaped.  Although the bass looks linear, I think I hear it as lacking bass due to the treble peak.
> 
> ...


Here's BeatsX response (from Rtings).  Now I realize why it sounded so smooth.  Smoothness comes at a cost.  Bass doesn't look as expected on paper, it's not a drastic of a rise.  I'm wondering if it's abruptness from 1-2k to the 3k that I feel that mids needs a slight more?

They definitely tuned it warm (although it's not highly warm, but has a warm tilt).  Lots of reviews I've been seeing, people are surprised this is a Beats signature as they expected lots of bass as well.  It doesn't (at least not By Dre sig).

I think that dipped portion is importation for movies/videos, which sounded not as lively, although music is quite smooth and I prefer the response for music.  Particularly with the right ear-tips.  I wonder how these response look with various ear-tips?  How does the dummy know it's proper fit?


----------



## matneh

MIBUK said:


> I have the Earin M2s and agree with you totally. Use them at the gym and commuting and mainly for music & podcasts. They are so small & discreet.
> 
> If you don’t use them for a while, have you noticed that the main charging unit loses its charge gradually? Maybe that’s by design? Anyway, I’m very happy with them. The sound is good and they’ll do for a year or so until someone brings out something a lot better.


Another thumbs up from an Earin M-2 user.  Works great in the gym surprisingly even though there are no “wings” to hold them in your ears.  Jaybird X3’d would constantly die from sweat but these have done great. No video sync issues on iPhone either which puts them in the minority!

One thing I discovered is that you can fit 1 large Comply tip and 1 large Earin tip in the charging case, but not 2 large Comply tips.


----------



## albau

matneh said:


> Another thumbs up from an Earin M-2 user.


For $250 no on-board volume control and no EQ?


----------



## matneh

albau said:


> For $250 no on-board volume control and no EQ?


Not on my list of requirements.  If there were one perfect truly wireless IEM out there, this thread would have ended by now


----------



## dweaver

I have been reluctant to buy a true wireless IEM but broke down and picked up the WF-SP700N today and have to say I am very happy with the sound so far. Yup they are bassy but's a fun bass not a hit you over the head type of bass. I am not enamored with the battery life but this may be more about me using them like a normal IEM versus just using them when exercising. In this sense it's a testament to how much I have enjoyed their sound because I didn't want to stop listening to them. I also am really enjoying being truly wireless. I own the WI1000X as well and while they are better sonically (by a good margin!) and have better battery life you do have to deal with the horse shoe and cables which is a pain in certain situations such and wearing a sport jacket in the office or having to sling a laptop bag over my neck for transit. So I think the WF-SP700N will work in those use cases and will definitely be great for working out or going for a jog where I want that freedom of not having to worry about cables.

I have had a chance to hear the 65T and found it to be a bit to bass light for my tastes which is part of the reason why I want with Sony instead. Similarly I never found the Bose to be particularly compelling sound wise or design wise as they just seemed too big.

The one model I wish I could have tried is the Run Free model from Jaybird but couldn't see enough reason to take them over the WF-SP700N.

One thing that made it easier for me to go Sony was the fact I can get 75 minutes of use off a 15 minute charge. This should tie me over in those instances where the battery dies during use. But I will probably always a have an alternate IEM or headphone in my bag just in case I need an immediate fix .


----------



## vladzakhar

matneh said:


> Not on my list of requirements.  If there were one perfect truly wireless IEM out there, this thread would have ended by now



Yea, it's minor for me too. I have EQ in my mobil app. M2s responding to Eqing very well. 
According onboard volume, M2s don't have swipe control and they too small for swipe control. No physical buttons ether.
Doesn't bother me that much. My phone is always in my hand for changing volume instantly.


----------



## SilverEars (Sep 2, 2018)

dweaver said:


> I have been reluctant to buy a true wireless IEM but broke down and picked up the WF-SP700N today and have to say I am very happy with the sound so far. Yup they are bassy but's a fun bass not a hit you over the head type of bass. I am not enamored with the battery life but this may be more about me using them like a normal IEM versus just using them when exercising. In this sense it's a testament to how much I have enjoyed their sound because I didn't want to stop listening to them. I also am really enjoying being truly wireless. I own the WI1000X as well and while they are better sonically (by a good margin!) and have better battery life you do have to deal with the horse shoe and cables which is a pain in certain situations such and wearing a sport jacket in the office or having to sling a laptop bag over my neck for transit. So I think the WF-SP700N will work in those use cases and will definitely be great for working out or going for a jog where I want that freedom of not having to worry about cables.
> 
> I have had a chance to hear the 65T and found it to be a bit to bass light for my tastes which is part of the reason why I want with Sony instead. Similarly I never found the Bose to be particularly compelling sound wise or design wise as they just seemed too big.
> 
> ...


Yup, significant amount of bass (graph from Rtings), greater than a Beats(X) even.  Sony is the one I have yet to try.



Looks like there is another Sony.  Sony WF-1000X, looking more compact.



Looking more linear as well.


----------



## SilverEars

I've been reading about the new Audeze Mobius that's been shipping out, and what I find that is an interesting feature is a separate analog input.  I would be totally up for a true-wireless with separate analog cable connection that goes into them for extended listening without relying on battery (since these types have such a short battery life).  I guess maybe not the most ideal option if have another earphone on hand that's wired and is preferred choice for SQ.


----------



## clerkpalmer

SilverEars said:


> I've been reading about the new Audeze Mobius that's been shipping out, and what I find that is an interesting feature is a separate analog input.  I would be totally up for a true-wireless with separate analog cable connection that goes into them for extended listening without relying on battery (since these types have such a short battery life).  I guess maybe not the most ideal option if have another earphone on hand that's wired and is preferred choice for SQ.


Ironically, I am listening to Mobius now.  If I am not mistaken, even though there is an analog input, the Mobius is active at all times meaning that if the battery dies, it won't work period.  That's my understanding even if a bit off topic.  I am interested in the M-2 but $250 is hard to swallow absent some evidence that they are a step up in SQ from the best.  I'd rather wait for the Sennheiser than drop $250 on the M-2.  It looks like a nice design.  Was eyeing them something near 2 years ago until the delays came. 

I find myself gravitating to the WFSP700N more often than not v Bose largely because the isolation and ANC allow me to keep volume levels in check.  The standout feature for Bose is multipoint BT so I can easily switch among devices.  Sonly only appears to allow 1 device at a time.


----------



## SilverEars

clerkpalmer said:


> Ironically, I am listening to Mobius now.  If I am not mistaken, even though there is an analog input, the Mobius is active at all times meaning that if the battery dies, it won't work period.  That's my understanding even if a bit off topic.  I am interested in the M-2 but $250 is hard to swallow absent some evidence that they are a step up in SQ from the best.  I'd rather wait for the Sennheiser than drop $250 on the M-2.  It looks like a nice design.  Was eyeing them something near 2 years ago until the delays came.
> 
> I find myself gravitating to the WFSP700N more often than not v Bose largely because the isolation and ANC allow me to keep volume levels in check.  The standout feature for Bose is multipoint BT so I can easily switch among devices.  Sonly only appears to allow 1 device at a time.


That makes sense.  They do say it has a built-in amp, and I'm thinking it takes in analog to the amp with no DSP.  

Do you have much experience with ANC?  I'm wondering if it does better than passive isolation when it comes to low frequency noise you find in the trains/airplanes.


----------



## clerkpalmer

SilverEars said:


> That makes sense.  They do say it has a built-in amp, and I'm thinking it takes in analog to the amp with no DSP.
> 
> Do you have much experience with ANC?  I'm wondering if it does better than passive isolation when it comes to low frequency noise you find in the trains/airplanes.


Mobius? Probably won't be great on a plane. Sony? The ANC is pretty light. Probably ok on a plane but no substitute for a real set of ANC cans.


----------



## SilverEars

clerkpalmer said:


> Mobius? Probably won't be great on a plane. Sony? The ANC is pretty light. Probably ok on a plane but no substitute for a real set of ANC cans.


No, not Mobius (I don't believe it has ANC).  Just a general question on ANC (if you are really familiar with that area).  Does it get rid of low frequency noise on trains/airplanes like the engine better than the best sound isolation (passive).


----------



## clerkpalmer

SilverEars said:


> No, not Mobius (I don't believe it has ANC).  Just a general question on ANC (if you are really familiar with that area).  Does it get rid of low frequency noise on trains/airplanes like the engine better than the best sound isolation (passive).


Yes ANC is amazing for trains airplanes.  I don't travel much anymore but if you spend time on trains and planes ANC is absolutely worth the investment. That said some people are sensitive to ANC including me.  It creates a weird pressure sensation.


----------



## dweaver

SilverEars said:


> Yup, significant amount of bass (graph from Rtings), greater than a Beats(X) even.  Sony is the one I have yet to try.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I tried the WF1000X when it was released and liked its signature but while testing had several dropouts on one ear. So politely said I wanted to think about it. From there I researched the model and TONS of people were having that issue so I passed on that model. I only bought the WF-SP700N because it has mostly fixed that issue according to others and so far my experience if proving that to be true.

That Mobius headphone looks amazing I might end up selling some gear to help buy that one.

If you can live with some wires and the horse shoe the WI-1000X is pretty much the IEM equivalent to the WH-1000XM2 and addresses sound quality and battery life issues that true wireless devices all have. I will be using both as needed. No sense in my wrecking my best pair from sweat while jogging...


----------



## jant71

Techradar has hands on with the AT stuff...
https://www.techradar.com/reviews/audio-technica-ath-ckr7tw
https://www.techradar.com/reviews/audio-technica-ath-sport7tw


----------



## dweaver (Sep 2, 2018)

Those both look nice. The premium one might be perfect for general use. To bad it doesn't have some minimal water protection.

Hopefully some Canadian stores start to carry these. Bestbuy Canada might as they set up an AT listening station in their stores.


----------



## jant71 (Sep 2, 2018)

Indeed, the lower profile and better sound/battery of the CKR model is nice but some water protection would be nice. It does rain and snow when you go to work. Hot train you may sweat and those buttons are right towards the top risky moisture getting in.

JVC new XX wireless sounded pretty good. Only 3 hour but it is $150 so street price can certainly be better. Seems the connection is good even in crowded environments and bass boost adjustment on board is cool. Another review, albeit translated, favors the JVC over the SP700 at least in some areas(only a short customer review type thing). Their downfall seems to be no FF or RW . Device only track change is pretty inconvenient. Maybe, just maybe, for the US version(not out just yet) they will fix that. I sent a message asking if they might be doing that. Duplicates commands on each side so 2 play/pause and sound modes functions and no FF/RW


----------



## howdy (Sep 3, 2018)

@SilverEars
Why not get the Sony WH1000XM2? They have 30 hours battery life and can be plugged in via 3.5 if battery dies. They have the best noise cancelling on the market. I use mine at work all the time and blocks out all ambient sound so all you hear is the music.
You should also try the B&O E8, they sound amazing! In my short time with BT I have acquired 5 different earbuds/headphones all of which have their pros and cons..


----------



## SilverEars (Sep 3, 2018)

howdy said:


> @SilverEars
> Why not get the Sony WH1000XM2? They have 30 hours battery life and can be plugged in via 3.5 if battery dies. They have the best noise cancelling on the market. I use mine at work all the time and blocks out all ambient sound so all you hear is the music.
> You should also try the B&O E8, they sound amazing! In my short time with BT I have acquired 5 different earbuds/headphones all of which have their pros and cons..


I tried out a Sony NC wireless at an airport one time, but not entirely sure if it was WH-1000XM2/B (looked the same, but it was half the price so probably not), and wasn't impressed with the sound.  I know the non-earphone types have greater battery life due to the size, but my purpose is for fitness usage (so, in-ear is the most ideal option for me).  I'm curious about how the WH-1000XM2/B sounds though.  Among the several wireless headphones, I thought the Sennheiser wireless sounded right up my alley.  I believe it was the Momentum full-sized wireless.  Perhaps for NC purpose, Sony has the edge over Sennheiser.

So, I tried out the BeatsX while jogging, and I realized there's low frequency noise caused from my body shifting isn't ideal for critical listening (not that critical listening what I am doing during a jog. LOL.).  BeatsX has very good BT connection I feel.  It connects reliably and quickly (I had trouble with all BT earphones other than BeatsX to connect to my LG TV upon initial pairing, BeatsX got discovered quickly and connected with no hiccups).

Interestingly, microphonics is the least concern when used for jogging with the cable flung out the way it does due to it's stiffness, it's the body shifting noise that effects the sound really.  I think it usually goes for around $100, and it's a good choice for sound value I find.  Not the highest battery life given it's bulk (8 hrs advertised, but I heard of 5.5 as well).  But, the smooth sound makes up for it, for casual usage.  Important thing to keep in mind is, it's not water resistant rated, and the charge plug opening has nothing to plug it closed (it is in the bulk that goes around the base of your neck though, so I can't imagine water getting in there unless you sweat like crazy).  I don't forsee me sweating so excessively for to be a problem.

Only thing I'm concerned about BeatsX is forgetting to charge it and realize it too late that battery has drained.  With the true-wireless, it goes in a case, so you'd charge it routinely everytime you put it in the case, and works as a reminder to charge the case as well.


----------



## SilverEars (Sep 3, 2018)

I think for flights though (or anything you need to drown out low frequency noise for a long duration), Sony sounds like a top option with it's NC ability and all the many features for convenience.  30 hrs battery for long flights, and all the features it has.  I don't know if I want to drop $300 just for flights though.  Would be nice if BeatsX had NC as well, but is there in-ear NC in existence and is it comparable to full-sized NC?

What are the different qualities of NC that differentiates top performing to mediocre performers?


----------



## howdy

SilverEars said:


> I tried out a Sony NC wireless at an airport one time, but not entirely sure if it was WH-1000XM2/B (looked the same, but it was half the price so probably not), and wasn't impressed with the sound.  I know the non-earphone types have greater battery life due to the size, but my purpose is for fitness usage (so, in-ear is the most ideal option for me).  I'm curious about how the WH-1000XM2/B sounds though.  Among the several wireless headphones, I thought the Sennheiser wireless sounded right up my alley.  I believe it was the Momentum full-sized wireless.  Perhaps for NC purpose, Sony has the edge over Sennheiser.
> 
> So, I tried out the BeatsX while jogging, and I realized there's low frequency noise caused from my body shifting isn't ideal for critical listening (not that critical listening what I am doing during a jog. LOL.).  BeatsX has very good BT connection I feel.  It connects reliably and quickly (I had trouble with all BT earphones other than BeatsX to connect to my LG TV upon initial pairing, BeatsX got discovered quickly and connected with no hiccups).
> 
> ...


I use the jaybird X3 at the gym for working out only. I use the treadmill and being a 250 lb guy I wasn't built for running so I'm not sure how they be in that respect.
Not to push the issue again but have you tried the B&O E8? They are a great sounding wireless earbud.


----------



## SilverEars (Sep 3, 2018)

howdy said:


> I use the jaybird X3 at the gym for working out only. I use the treadmill and being a 250 lb guy I wasn't built for running so I'm not sure how they be in that respect.
> Not to push the issue again but have you tried the B&O E8? They are a great sounding wireless earbud.


It's best not to run at that weight.  You need to have a strong core(as running need strong core muscles for support) and also the weight will be bad on your knees.  It's best to use something that's impact-less like the elliptical for cardio. I think the low frequency noise is caused by foot impact (it's harder during running).

I'm going to have to look into B&O E8 as well, but not motivated at this point as I've given up on true-wireless for now due to connection unreliability.

I just looked at FR from Rtings, and it looks like Bose QC 35 II has better FR than the Sony.  Sony probably has more features and better NC.  Seems like both are comparable, but I'd have to hear them both to figure out which of the two I prefer and have to test out NC during commuting/flight situations.

Bose QC 35 II




Sony MDR-1000XM2


----------



## howdy

SilverEars said:


> It's best not to run at that weight.  You need to have a strong core(as running need strong core muscles for support) and also the weight will be bad on your knees.  It's best to use something that's impact-less like the elliptical for cardio. I think the low frequency noise is caused by foot impact (it's harder during running).
> 
> I'm going to have to look into B&O E8 as well, but not motivated at this point as I've given up on true-wireless for now due to connection unreliability.
> 
> ...


I'm big into bench pressing and upper body(I do work out the legs to so I'm not disproportionate).I do cardio but not big on running as I have a bad knee.
As for Bose v Sony, I was at Bestbuy and went back and forth for awhile seeing which when I wanted more and they both sounded great but the noise cancelling is what really sold me on the Sony.


----------



## SilverEars (Sep 3, 2018)

howdy said:


> I'm big into bench pressing and upper body(I do work out the legs to so I'm not disproportionate).I do cardio but not big on running as I have a bad knee.
> As for Bose v Sony, I was at Bestbuy and went back and forth for awhile seeing which when I wanted more and they both sounded great but the noise cancelling is what really sold me on the Sony.


Did the Sony NC lower it much greater than Bose?

There's also the new Sony 1000XM3 coming out and I saw a cnet review stating that it has the drivers from Sony MDR 1AM2 and has a new QN1 chip which does the sound processing including NC, and seems like NC performance has improved(with sound performance being better as well), and overall maybe better than QC 35 II as well.  I'm gonna hold off for that one.


----------



## SilverEars (Sep 3, 2018)

Something interesting I realized about the BeatsX is that I have generally noticed a difference in sound when connected to my PC via the motherboard's Intel Wireless Bluetooth compared to my Galaxy S8+ bluetooth connection.

The treble sounds more prominant with the PC's Intel Wireless Bluetooth connection, and the bass sounds better controlled.  I know it's hard to believe a bluetooth source would effect the sound quality, but if it is really the case I like to find out what it is.

I'm pretty certain that BeatsX sounds best out of my PC's BT connection, and it was through the PC my first impression came with music playback sourced from Foobar2000 software on my PC.  I'm impressed how it sounds out the PC, but my Galaxy S8+ with USB Audio Player Pro, no so much (although this playback software seem to sound the best on Android devices to me).

I've noticed this with other BT earphones I've tried as well, and Jaybird Run was the most noticeable one (it sounded best with BT connection to the intel BT module on the PC), but I find BeatsX sounds the best of all I've tried.

This is opposite of what I'm looking for, I'm not carrying around my desktop PC with a car battery. LOL.


----------



## turbobb

@SilverEars - you're likely not imagining things, there is a difference in the BT codec implementations and I've noticed this most pronounced with SBC; using the same headphone but different sources, I've heard both really poor implementations and really good ones that were nearly indistinguishable between AAC/aptX. Try to see if you can check which codec is in use with your Intel vs. S8+


----------



## howdy

As I've mentioned in this thread awhile back I've heard differances between Apple and Android with my BT. I use my Sony's and B&O e8 with Android and my Jaybirds with my Apple iPod.


----------



## jant71 (Sep 4, 2018)

I got an answer from JVC regarding the track change ability of the new XC70BT. They were very clear. No track change on the earbuds and it will not be added.

I would say look out for good deals and some open box deals on them. May still be solid and a sweet deal if you don't mind what the left out. I know my old JVC ET50BT is my strongest connection(till over 100 feet in the open) and best fit of my BT stuff


----------



## dkstott

I've had my Jabra 65T since they came out from Best Buy way back in February / March. 

I've worn them 6 days a week for my 5-6 mile jog. Only issue I ever had was on very humid mornings, my left ear sweats and the left ear piece gets slippery and tends inadvertently to pop out of my ear.  As a result, it's bounced several times across pavement and it's still working like a charm.

My sweating doesn't seem to have affected the 65T in the 7 months in any way.  

The only hissing issue I ever experienced was when google assistant interfered with Bluetooth operation and was waiting for suggestions... I've turned google assistant off. LOL 

I've worn the 65T on buses, trains, etc...Note; I just wore them for a 5 hour train ride from Hartford CT to Philly and on the return trip & never had an issue.  During a 15 minute stop in Penn Central, I popped the buds into the case and got a quick charge. 

In the 7 months I've had the 65T I can count on one hand the number of times that Bluetooth has cut out.  Never had any complaints from people regarding audio during calls.

While the sound may not be completely audiophile level of wired earbuds, they're perfect for commuting and working out. LOVE LOVE LOVE the Isolation!!!

I'm sold... no need to look any further.. 

Dave


----------



## albau (Sep 4, 2018)

turbobb said:


> @SilverEars - you're likely not imagining things, there is a difference in the BT codec implementations and I've noticed this most pronounced with SBC; using the same headphone but different sources, I've heard both really poor implementations and really good ones that were nearly indistinguishable between AAC/aptX. Try to see if you can check which codec is in use with your Intel vs. S8+


I would assume that in general PC or laptop with have better BT SQ than a small mobile device. Not because the codec is better implemented per se, but simply because there's more computing power and less battery and heat restrictions for codec to increase bit rate and thus sound stream quality.


----------



## albau (Sep 5, 2018)

dkstott said:


> I've had my Jabra 65T since they came out from Best Buy way back in February / March.


I've had mine 65t Elite just for 3 months. Glad to say that my experience in and around Manhattan, including subway, jogging and gym, is exactly same as yours, except for the sweaty left ear . Stable connection with my Galaxy S8 and between earbuds themselves. I can count on one hand times when there was a momentary sound interruption. No noticeable hissing or sound imbalance to speak of. These things just work, which can't be said about E8 I had before (despite better SQ though). I also came to really appreciate Jabra's user interface and how well thought and reliable it is. On-board functionality, sensibly laid out, has everything, including volume and track ff/rw, that you can operate while on the run or in the crowd, without the need to get into your pocket and fish out the damn phone. Take out of the ear one earbud and sound pauses, put it back - it resumes. Stash earbuds into the case, watch for the red lights on them to blink to confirm, close the lid, and the buds shut off and start charging. Take the right one out,  stick it into the ear and voice immediately confirms it's ready. Lights inside the case and on its bottom confirm the charge level. It's all very well thought, fluid and works flawlessly. To me how Jabras sound is good enough for what they are and how I use them. Not as good as E8, not speaking of my wired Westone 4, but still there with a decent $80 wired buds with a dynamic driver. EQ in the app helps, I keep it V-shaped. I also have Jabras paired to both my Android phone and iPad with no problems. My only real complaint, besides wishing for less recessed mids and less constrained soundstage, is for the case to have magnetic guides. As it stands now slipping in buds correctly is a bit tricky, and it won't charge them unless you shuffle buds until red light blinks on each. I also wish Jabra would design the case so it would close with a longer and more common 3rd party eartips. But all in all, thanks to 65t I'm sold on wireless IEMs.


----------



## dweaver

Have to say walking in the wind today with my 700N and they work well in wind which surprises me since most ANC products struggle in the wind.

I was using my WI1000X and switched over to the 700N to see how they handled some Led Zeppelin (bit of an A/B test) and was very happy with how they sounded compared to my WI1000X. No they are not as good but the have a similar signature which I like and when out and about I don't have time to focus on the minutia anyway.


----------



## SilverEars (Sep 4, 2018)

dweaver said:


> Have to say walking in the wind today with my 700N and they work well in wind which surprises me since most ANC products struggle in the wind.
> 
> I was using my WI1000X and switched over to the 700N to see how they handled some Led Zeppelin (bit of an A/B test) and was very happy with how they sounded compared to my WI1000X. No they are not as good but the have a similar signature which I like and when out and about I don't have time to focus on the minutia anyway.


So, WI1000X is the best sounding wireless for you?  I didn't know there was an iem version of the 1000X.  I looked at the product page, and it sounds pretty good with the features.

Does those features seem useful and work well for you?  Like auto-adjustment, etc..  How is the NC performance?  That atmospheric pressure auto adjustment for flights sound interesting (I usually worry about that for flights).

Only gripes I have is the bulk you have to wear around the neck.  It's a real eyesore IMO.  But, I understand it's necessary for all the features it has.

I'm curious of the NC performance between iem and full-sized 1000X (for full-sized the latest one, M3).


----------



## SilverEars (Sep 4, 2018)

I want to add that I've gotten about 7hrs battery life out of the BeatsX streaming from my smartphone.  It's advertised for 8 hrs.


----------



## dweaver

I have only heard the 1000mx2 model which came out at the same time as as WI1000X. Between the 2 I think the 1000mx2 is slightly more spacious but does not have the impact in the bass. Both have the same ANC features but the 1000mx2 is probably slightly better at ANC. I don't fly so can't discuss the air pressure thing. But really like the ambient sound feature and the ability to adjust to different setting including reducing wind noise which actually does pretty good. I get around 8 hours of battery life and thats while using LDAC and ANC which is very good.

They both are really good but I am glad I have the WI1000X as I appreciate the form factor for portability.


----------



## BigAund (Sep 5, 2018)

Not much mention of the Earin M2 so far... I'd like to add my voice to the few others commenting on it.

Build quality is excellent
Connection is strong and remains stable
Sound is, for a true wireless, decent thanks to the BA drivers.
Battery life is ok - I have a 1hr 30 commute, they last comfortably. They then charge in the container for the journey home later on.

The Earin app is of limited use - you can switch on the audio transparency, change the device volume (which you can do from the device volume rocker anyway), update the firmware when a new one comes available.
They're easy to drop/lose - I managed to drop one of the buds on the tube after about 2 days of owning them, thankfully I managed to snatch it up before it was lost in the throng!
They aren't the cheapest compared to the many options that are out there.

I've had them for about 2 months and have been using them on my commute. They isolate decently and are pretty stable in the ear - I'm not a gym goer so can't comment on that side of things.

All in all I am impressed with these for convenience, reliability, and build. They aren't close to some of the more costly wired IEMs I have, but for on the go, they more than meet the requirement.


----------



## mikp

some tws that are supposed to have QCC3026

https://greenfunding.jp/lab/projects/2418

https://comingsoon-tech.com/projects/air-x-long-lasting-lightweight-earbuds
http://www.globalsources.com/gsol/G...oduct_search=on&supplier_search=off&view=grid


----------



## sly_in_the_sky (Sep 7, 2018)

I have the 65t and E8. For those who need an advice and hesitate between Jabra 65t and B&O E8, in terms of sound, E8 do everything a little better than 65t but for those who are sensitive with upper medium and treble, E8 are a little bit on the bright side and sometimes can be harsh... For that reason, even if I can admit that E8 are a little bit better in terms of technicity (soundstage, separation, details), I find the 65t more natural for longer listening sessions... When I am outside, concentration on music is less important and I focus less on the technicity, also because of noise environement and so on but tonality becomes the main focus... hot treble can cause fatigue...  So, to my ears and because I don’t like bright treble, for jogging and aldo on the go listening, 65t is the best choice.


----------



## SilverEars

BeatsX is probably a dynamic driver, I just noticed a hole at the bottom, maybe a vent.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

sly_in_the_sky said:


> I have the 65t and E8. For those who need an advice and hesitate between Jabra 65t and B&O E8, in terms of sound, E8 do everything a little better than 65t but for those who are sensitive with upper medium and treble, E8 are a little bit on the bright side and sometimes can be harsh... For that reason, even if I can admit that E8 are a little bit better in terms of technicity (soundstage, separation, details), I find the 65t more natural for longer listening sessions... When I am outside, concentration on music is less important and I focus less on the technicity, also because of noise environement and so on but tonality becomes the main focus... hot treble can cause fatigue...  So, to my ears and because I don’t like bright treble, for jogging and aldo on the go listening, 65t is the best choice.



I think a lot of the time what is the most "technically proficient" isn't what we actually want in our ears. If I was aiming for neutrality or whatever I sure wouldn't have VModa and Sony in my arsenal, but even after trying scores of other wireless sets, full-sized and IEM, I'm here with the Crossfade 2 Codex and the sp700n. People can easily say they're "worse" than this or that, but considering I'm listening to music with them, the ones that make me enjoy the music most are the ones that sound the best.


----------



## SilverEars

I'm trying out the BO E8, and it does sound treble elevated.  6-7k is a bit much.


----------



## dweaver

SomeGuyDude said:


> I think a lot of the time what is the most "technically proficient" isn't what we actually want in our ears. If I was aiming for neutrality or whatever I sure wouldn't have VModa and Sony in my arsenal, but even after trying scores of other wireless sets, full-sized and IEM, I'm here with the Crossfade 2 Codex and the sp700n. People can easily say they're "worse" than this or that, but considering I'm listening to music with them, the ones that make me enjoy the music most are the ones that sound the best.


I agree 100% I have owned a ton of BT IEMS and Headphones and while many are better technically better in all boils down to if they have a signature you like. The SP700N has an awesome sound that is very reminiscent of the Sony IEMs I have loved in the past such as my defunct XBA-Z5 signature wise. No it doesn't have the best tech such as ApTx but honestly it sounds better than many of the products I own that do have the better technology.

Now I want to be clear this does not mean it is technically as adept as the XBA-Z5 as it simply can not be due to BT limitations but is shares the basic signature of the Z5 and other classic Sony IEMs. 

My issue is I like SP700N enough I would like to use it more but its 2.5hr battery life limits using it. If Sony makes a newer model that like this but has more battery life and newer tech I will be all over it.


----------



## clerkpalmer (Sep 9, 2018)

I'm finally giving up on the soundsport frees.  While I am a fan of the sq and the fit, I've been through 3 RMAs for various issues ranging from a totally dead earpieces and  unbalanced sound from left to right.  My 3rd pair died last night when the right piece stopped turning on. Earlier this week they started connecting to my phone while in the charging case.  Sadly too many issues.  I will give Bose props for excellent customer service as they never give me a hard time. 

I have the sp700n and m4utw to keep me tied over. Now need to decide whether to grab 65t active or perhaps wait and see how the audio techina work out? Any other suggestions? I've tried the Run and thought the sq was horrible. I was going to try the iconx 2018 but the fact they only transmit via sbc has me scared off.


----------



## dweaver

The AT stuff looks very good so if your looking for new then I would wait for those. The links above for the 2 IEMs with at new Qualcomm chips look promising as well but I worry about sound quality and vaporware when it comes to startups...


----------



## SilverEars (Sep 15, 2018)

I'm realizing more and more than I'm very happy with BeatsX.  I don't think Beats should be labeled as overpriced per performance ratio anymore.  Just look at the audiophile headphones priced 4-6k?!

So on to the *Beoplay E8*.  I think everything is quite neutral except the treble peak.  I think if that treble peak wasn't there, it would be the top truely wireless.  However, I feel that the fit didn't provided the peak performance in sound for me (due to my ear canals not being symetric, and the choice of tips and insertion depth possible I believe).  I do like the general fit in terms of ergonomics, it's comparable to IconX (which I like the fit of).  I like the little case it comes with and the full-length cable (I don't like others coming with short cables), the dark green color.  IconX still has the best indicator lights.

I have not run into any connection problems or left and right earpice sync issues on audio playpack like IconX.  My experience has been pretty comparable to Jabra in terms of connection reliability.

As for lag, it's very acceptable (there's hardly noticible lag or I'd be really picky if I were to say there were an amount to cause disruption in video watching quality).  So, I think AV lag performance is probably the best of it's class of truely wireless comparable to IconX.  No lag on my television (except slight on Netflix app, but not on Blu Ray sourced material), and connects quickly without hiccups to my TV BT.  Slight noticible on Youtube on PC and smartphone.

So, that 6-7k peak has a bit effect on this pricey in-ear.  It's the combination of price $299 (while others are around half) and the treble peak makes it a not so good value.

I found the sound to be very close to Jaybird Run.  It's not just my ears.

*Jaybird Run*




*Beoplay E8*


----------



## nc8000

SilverEars said:


> I'm realizing more and more than I'm very happy with BeatsX.  I don't think Beats should be labeled as overpriced per performance ratio anymore.  Just look at the audiophile headphones priced 4-6k?!  Personally, I found Beats Studio 3 Wireless sound likeable as well.
> 
> So on to the Beoplay E8.  I think everything is quite neutral except the treble peak.  I think if that treble peak wasn't there, it would be the top truely wireless.  However, I feel that the fit didn't provided the peak performance in sound for me (due to my ear canals not being symetric, and the choice of tips and insertion depth possible I believe).  I do like the general fit in terms of ergonomics, it's comparable to IconX (which I like the fit of).  I like the little case it comes with and the full-length cable (I don't like others coming with short cables), the dark green color.  IconX still has the best indicator lights.
> 
> ...



B&O are not really noted for being good value, they are one of the first design driven hifi companies and have always commanded a premium price for their name and design but often also some really innovative and cutting edge tech


----------



## SomeGuyDude

dweaver said:


> I agree 100% I have owned a ton of BT IEMS and Headphones and while many are better technically better in all boils down to if they have a signature you like. The SP700N has an awesome sound that is very reminiscent of the Sony IEMs I have loved in the past such as my defunct XBA-Z5 signature wise. No it doesn't have the best tech such as ApTx but honestly it sounds better than many of the products I own that do have the better technology.
> 
> Now I want to be clear this does not mean it is technically as adept as the XBA-Z5 as it simply can not be due to BT limitations but is shares the basic signature of the Z5 and other classic Sony IEMs.
> 
> My issue is I like SP700N enough I would like to use it more but its 2.5hr battery life limits using it. If Sony makes a newer model that like this but has more battery life and newer tech I will be all over it.



Battery life is definitely the Sony's achilles heel, although I admit I don't run into that very often since I only use 'em in the gym and they sit in the case all other times. 

Fortunately they have AAC which, in my experience, is better than aptX so they sound pretty damn excellent from my phone.


----------



## mikp

when it comes to true wireless, seems you better stay away from crowdfunding.

Eoz is 6 months late, and at last minute changed from "latest csr 5.0" with apt-x to cheap realtek used in something like sabbat x12.

A quick search discovered it supports sbc and aac. Looks like they are not mentioning aptx.

Then theres Aria, this always looked like an alibaba resell. Down to the watersplash images used.
Promised aptx, they closed surveys and now says aac codec.

Another one is Touch, this one is now sold under many names in asia and backers got nothing. I picked one up in a tmall sale some time ago.

So before jumping on crowdfund tws, just check alibaba or chinese manufacturers like this.

Even the japanese crowdfunding AVIOT TE-D01b  looks like it comes straight from the chinese factory.


----------



## clerkpalmer

SomeGuyDude said:


> Battery life is definitely the Sony's achilles heel, although I admit I don't run into that very often since I only use 'em in the gym and they sit in the case all other times.
> 
> Fortunately they have AAC which, in my experience, is better than aptX so they sound pretty damn excellent from my phone.



Have you found the charging case flimsy? I have to fiddle with the port to keep the red light on. I returned my first pair for this and now the second pair is doing it.  Really garbage charging case from Sony.  I expected better. I agree on sound. I'm using aac on bright setting.  Really solid.


----------



## albau

mikp said:


> when it comes to true wireless, seems you better stay away from crowdfunding.


AptX and AAC are two sides of the same coin, they are comparable and both beat SBC. No need to get hooked on one as though it's a gift from gods.


----------



## SilverEars (Sep 9, 2018)

nc8000 said:


> B&O are not really noted for being good value, they are one of the first design driven hifi companies and have always commanded a premium price for their name and design but often also some really innovative and cutting edge tech


if they were the first of this design, that's innovasion, but there are others out there with this design.  For the usage scenario, design is in terms of practicality, not really looks.  They have it, but it doesn't distinguish itself, so atleast the SQ must if pricing is of such a significant disparity.  SQ doesn't.


----------



## nc8000

SilverEars said:


> if they were the first of this design, that's innovasion, but there are others out there with this design.  For the usage scenario, design is in terms of practicality, not really looks.  They have it, but it doesn't distinguish itself, so atleast the SQ must if pricing is of such a significant disparity.  SQ doesn't.



Design as in looks and I was not specifically talking of the E8 but their entire history


----------



## SilverEars (Sep 9, 2018)

nc8000 said:


> Design as in looks and I was not specifically talking of the E8 but their entire history


That's irrelevant to me, however, that $299 price tag is. LOL.


----------



## howdy

SilverEars said:


> That's irrelevant to me, however, that $299 price tag is. LOL.


I'm lucky as I got a new pair for 160.00USD. 
Have you played with the App to change the sound? I get a little of the High frequency issue that you had but its really rare for me and I just love the fit and sound.


----------



## SilverEars (Sep 9, 2018)

howdy said:


> I'm lucky as I got a new pair for 160.00USD.
> Have you played with the App to change the sound? I get a little of the High frequency issue that you had but its really rare for me and I just love the fit and sound.


No, I should do that.  I can use the Rtings graph to reduce the treble, but what I hate EQ is not being able to save the EQ for different devices (I hope to see this feature one day).  I can't EQ my TV (see the limitations?).  Also, I don't find EQ to be a real change of headphone signature, just sounds different to me, like software processed.  Some EQ, I've heard autotune like effects like it's going through tonal changes real time and I hear it.


----------



## SilverEars (Sep 9, 2018)

SilverEars said:


> No, I should do that.  I can use the Rtings graph to reduce the treble, but what I hate EQ is not being able to save the EQ for different devices (I hope to see this feature one day).  I can't EQ my TV (see the limitations?).  Also, I don't find EQ to be a real change of headphone signature, just sounds different to me, like software processed.  Some EQ, I've heard autotune like effects like it's going through tonal changes real time and I hear it.


I tried using using the Beoplay app EQ which is a bit of joke.  It's not a traditional EQ with sliders, but some circle thing with sectioned off into 4 section, and you place the dot into the point that hits the spot in sound for you.  Uh, no.  B&O can take back their design philosphy that do not align with me.  I want real EQ, parametric preferred (but probably not happen since B&O is "design" oriented).



I have a question for any BT experts out there.  I'm actually considering just going with wired iems with a tiny BT module.  Anybody know of a good one that doesn't have a AV lag issue with a connecting device like a smartphone (Android for me)?

I'm going to try out the Shanling M0 which is a bidirectional BT device, and can be used as a receiver to wired headphone BT module.  It has aptX and LDAC.

See how small it is?  It's actually a DAP as well, and takes in up to 512GB of micro SD storage, and has touch screen.  For my needs, it should work fine as long as it doesn't have much AV lag.


----------



## nc8000

SilverEars said:


> I tried using using the Beoplay app EQ which is a bit of joke.  It's not a traditional EQ with sliders, but some circle thing with sectioned off into 4 section, and you place the dot into the point that hits the spot in sound for you.  Uh, no.  B&O can take back their design philosphy that do not align with me.  I want real EQ, parametric preferred (but probably not happen since B&O is "design" oriented).
> 
> 
> 
> ...



You can also change the size of the white dot. 

If one does not like the B&O design philosophy one should just stay away from their products, they wont change philosophy


----------



## jwbrent

god-bluff said:


> Sennheiser Momentum True Wireless have been announced. Measly £300!! I believe
> 
> Wonder how they compare with WF-1000X? Can't imagine them being much better?!?!



I like these and will be interested on whether they do a good job with drop outs.


----------



## SilverEars (Sep 10, 2018)

nc8000 said:


> You can also change the size of the white dot.
> 
> If one does not like the B&O design philosophy one should just stay away from their products, they wont change philosophy


I actually stopped by a B&O store when I was in Europe (awhile back), and yes, they seem more design oriented toward visual aesthetics, but not sure if there was good practical design that supported it.  I was quite impressed with the aesthetics at the time as it's not something I commonly see in the US.  You know like some European furniture that are more visual oriented than ergonomically ideal?

I understand the intent of the Beoplay EQ ui, it just doesn't bide well with me given my experience with EQ.  I see it as being user friendly for people that doesn't need the time curve for the traditional EQ.  I can EQ parametric with USB Audio Player Pro.  Which provides more control if you get familiar with the different parameters.


----------



## mikp

albau said:


> AptX and AAC are two sides of the same coin, they are comparable and both beat SBC. No need to get hooked on one as though it's a gift from gods.



Nope..and not when an item is sold as apt-x.


----------



## albau

mikp said:


> Nope..and not when an item is sold as apt-x.


You know for sure to the contrary? And what exactly - AAC is worse than AptX or than SBC as well?


----------



## albau

SilverEars said:


> I was quite impressed with the aesthetics at the time as it's not something I commonly see in the US.


Isn’t Apple, which is a US company, an iconic example of minimalist design frequently overriding functionality?


----------



## mikp

albau said:


> You know for sure to the contrary? And what exactly - AAC is worse than AptX or than SBC as well?



You usually buy stuff that are compatible with your other stuff..so example windows and my dap does not support aac but aptx.. so then your stuck with sbc.

Its basically bait and switch. When something is sold or pitched as latest qualcomm 5.0 with apt-x, then without word changed to cheaper realtek with aac theres a problem.


----------



## albau

mikp said:


> You usually buy stuff that are compatible with your other stuff..so example windows and my dap does not support aac but aptx.. so then your stuck with sbc.
> 
> Its basically bait and switch. When something is sold or pitched as latest qualcomm 5.0 with apt-x, then without word changed to cheaper realtek with aac theres a problem.


Fair enough, understand your frustration. Though my Windows BT board supports both AptX and AAC. Same with my Samsung S8 phone despite it being an Android.


----------



## mikp

albau said:


> Fair enough, understand your frustration. Though my Windows BT board supports both AptX and AAC. Same with my Samsung S8 phone despite it being an Android.



ive not backed, but been following those tws crowdfunding examples. Seems tws is very sketchy now, not really any improvements and the cheaper ones you are better to pick up on ali,tmall etc.


----------



## nc8000

SilverEars said:


> I actually stopped by a B&O store when I was in Europe (awhile back), and yes, they seem more design oriented toward visual aesthetics, but not sure if there was good practical design that supported it.  I was quite impressed with the aesthetics at the time as it's not something I commonly see in the US.  You know like some European furniture that are more visual oriented than ergonomically ideal?
> 
> I understand the intent of the Beoplay EQ ui, it just doesn't bide well with me given my experience with EQ.  I see it as being user friendly for people that doesn't need the time curve for the traditional EQ.  I can EQ parametric with USB Audio Player Pro.  Which provides more control if you get familiar with the different parameters.



Yes B&O are often form over contents with their prices not justifying actual performance, but over the years they have also done real groundbreaking engineering


----------



## SilverEars

Do you guys know how to find out what connection your BT is under?  I'm particularly interested in the one for my PC that is an intel. BT module.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

mikp said:


> when it comes to true wireless, seems you better stay away from crowdfunding.
> 
> Eoz is 6 months late, and at last minute changed from "latest csr 5.0" with apt-x to cheap realtek used in something like sabbat x12.
> 
> ...



Scrapping aptX in favor of AAC is becoming more and more common. Sony and B&O both do the same. It's seeming like AAC is going to become the mobile standard, which I'm on board with because it does sound better to my ears.


----------



## albau

SomeGuyDude said:


> Scrapping aptX in favor of AAC is becoming more and more common. Sony and B&O both do the same. It's seeming like AAC is going to become the mobile standard, which I'm on board with because it does sound better to my ears.


You're up to something. With my Jabra 65t Elite even my Android Galaxy S8 is using AAC, although it has AptX codec. Very well may be that Jabra don't support it  despite using BT5 chip


----------



## mikp

albau said:


> You're up to something. With my Jabra 65t Elite even my Android Galaxy S8 is using AAC, although it has AptX codec. Very well may be that Jabra don't support it  despite using BT5 chip



65t support aac and sbc. Im not interested in personal preferences over apt-x and aac, but just a warning to crowdfunding it seems. When something is funded as apt-x then changed at last minute to aac is scammy to me.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

Being that I'm one of the dopes still waiting for a Sentio Superbook, I'm quick to say "stop crowdfunding tech unless they already have a fully working prototype."


----------



## jant71

SomeGuyDude said:


> Scrapping aptX in favor of AAC is becoming more and more common. Sony and B&O both do the same. It's seeming like AAC is going to become the mobile standard, which I'm on board with because it does sound better to my ears.



What I keep asking is why does Sony not include AptX or even LDAC for their own consumers? My Sony A45 doesn't do AAC but it does aptX, aptX HD, and their own LDAC yet they leave both out of even $200+ stuff like the SP700, SP900, and WF1000X. The EX750BT played both. So if you bought the A45 and one of those earbuds when they come out before price dropping starts, you support Sony and give them close to $500 and all you would get is SBC.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

jant71 said:


> What I keep asking is why does Sony not include AptX or even LDAC for their own consumers? My Sony A45 doesn't do AAC but it does aptX, aptX HD, and their own LDAC yet they leave both out of even $200+ stuff like the SP700, SP900, and WF1000X. The EX750BT played both. So if you bought the A45 and one of those earbuds when they come out before price dropping starts, you support Sony and give them close to $500 and all you would get is SBC.



I obviously can't speak for Sony but obviously the cost/benefit analysis didn't favor the inclusion. LDAC seems to be something they keep in the full-size, and I've a feeling aptX is just going slowly away.


----------



## GJ2890

mikp said:


> when it comes to true wireless, seems you better stay away from crowdfunding.
> 
> Eoz is 6 months late, and at last minute changed from "latest csr 5.0" with apt-x to cheap realtek used in something like sabbat x12.
> 
> ...



I'm an EOZ backer and this final news is really disappointing...But the price asked during the campaign was not so high (for a single unit), so, even if I feel a bit spoiled, I'll keep waiting the product in the next few weeks (guess I have not so many choice anyway), maybe it will turn out to be really enjoyable (even though I doubt so). 
I feel more pain for superbackers, but this is kickstarter, so, the product advertised at the beginning is rarely the final product. 

I think I will end up buying sennheiser true wireless anyways so...


----------



## mikp

GJ2890 said:


> I'm an EOZ backer and this final news is really disappointing...But the price asked during the campaign was not so high (for a single unit), so, even if I feel a bit spoiled, I'll keep waiting the product in the next few weeks (guess I have not so many choice anyway), maybe it will turn out to be really enjoyable (even though I doubt so).
> I feel more pain for superbackers, but this is kickstarter, so, the product advertised at the beginning is rarely the final product.
> 
> I think I will end up buying sennheiser true wireless anyways so...



yes, it smells like something that rhymes with spam..

The realtek chip is used in cheap noname chinese tws

They are what..7 months late and advertised heavily apt-x and at some stages apt-x hd. Then just before shipping they just mention realtek..and now says _"It's a clumsy phrasing. It means that the Realtek use another codec than Aptx for those 2 platforms (APTX isn't used by apple products bu default). But as far as we're concerned, audio performances are on par. I'm actually surprised how regular APTX is so praised here... Good marketing I guess as they were the first on the market."_

surprised ..sure.. from their campaign..

The custom made 8mm electro-dynamic drivers deliver a *fine tuned High Resolution Audio for a natural sound signature*. Combined with the latest aptX® technology, that significantly reduces the bit rate without affecting audio quality, you get a pure wireless CD-like quality sound.


----------



## swesko

looking for some good BT earbuds for gym workouts, mostly weight lifting...i just looked at jabra 65t and the Bose soundsport free..anything else to consider?i just dont want crappy sound espcially after i have to listen through my u18t on my way home  not expecting the same S but something not muddy or distorted


----------



## clerkpalmer

swesko said:


> looking for some good BT earbuds for gym workouts, mostly weight lifting...i just looked at jabra 65t and the Bose soundsport free..anything else to consider?i just dont want crappy sound espcially after i have to listen through my u18t on my way home  not expecting the same S but something not muddy or distorted


I would consider the Sony SP700N as well particularly if you can sacrifice some battery life for SQ.


----------



## clerkpalmer

I emailed Audio Technica and they said the ETA on their new TW is not until December.  I really wish we could go back to the days when products were actually available when released.


----------



## swesko

clerkpalmer said:


> I would consider the Sony SP700N as well particularly if you can sacrifice some battery life for SQ.


https://www.ebay.com/itm/Sony-WF-SP700N-Sports-True-Wireless-Noise-Canceling-Earbud-Headphones-Black/131021645611?hash=item1e817fa72b:g:560AAOSw91hbT7fa

these??they look so werid


----------



## clerkpalmer

swesko said:


> https://www.ebay.com/itm/Sony-WF-SP700N-Sports-True-Wireless-Noise-Canceling-Earbud-Headphones-Black/131021645611?hash=item1e817fa72b:g:560AAOSw91hbT7fa
> 
> these??they look so werid



True.  But they sound good.  I have not heard the Jabra so I can't comment on the SQ.  Most reviews say it is good but perhaps not as good as the Bose which I have heard.  I put the Sony in line with the Bose on SQ.  The Jabra seems to be the consensus pick for well-rounded - good SQ, good battery, good fit and good connection.  You probably can't go wrong with them.  If SQ is your priority, you might prefer the Sony to the Jabra that's all.


----------



## swesko

clerkpalmer said:


> True.  But they sound good.  I have not heard the Jabra so I can't comment on the SQ.  Most reviews say it is good but perhaps not as good as the Bose which I have heard.  I put the Sony in line with the Bose on SQ.  The Jabra seems to be the consensus pick for well-rounded - good SQ, good battery, good fit and good connection.  You probably can't go wrong with them.  If SQ is your priority, you might prefer the Sony to the Jabra that's all.


thanks, tahst what i read everywhere so i was just looking for people who have tried all of either one of those..no local seller is selling the jabra active 65t here but one is selling the Bose so i'll go with bose


----------



## SomeGuyDude

clerkpalmer said:


> True.  But they sound good.  I have not heard the Jabra so I can't comment on the SQ.  Most reviews say it is good but perhaps not as good as the Bose which I have heard.  I put the Sony in line with the Bose on SQ.  The Jabra seems to be the consensus pick for well-rounded - good SQ, good battery, good fit and good connection.  You probably can't go wrong with them.  If SQ is your priority, you might prefer the Sony to the Jabra that's all.



TBH the Sony sound better than the Bose and Jabra to my ears. Jabra is more even but less engaging, and in the gym having that burly low end is important to me.


----------



## clerkpalmer

These popped up on BB's website today:  https://www.bestbuy.com/site/master...eadphones-matte-black/6296501.p?skuId=6296501

Not cheap but look interesting.  Can't find anything else on them ATM.  Not even M&D's website has them.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

They sure look interesting, but having heard M&D's "high end" wireless over-ears I admit I have very little interest in them. I'm a VModa fanboy and I thought the MW60 bass was blown out and ugly.


----------



## clerkpalmer

SomeGuyDude said:


> They sure look interesting, but having heard M&D's "high end" wireless over-ears I admit I have very little interest in them. I'm a VModa fanboy and I thought the MW60 bass was blown out and ugly.



https://www.engadget.com/2018/09/13/master-and-dynamic-mw07-review-true-wireless-earbuds/

Looks promising.  Initial reviews say the best SQ yet.  I grabbed a set with a 10% code from the M&D website.  I figure, what the hell.  IPX4 - so hopefully they can withstand a workout?


----------



## mikp (Sep 13, 2018)

Well, the mavin x is out, too bad it is on indiegogo. Kickstarter is enough risk (have one item waiting to ship)

so,- the upcoming ones that look interesting are ATH-CKR7TW and the momentum wireless. But the prices seems too high.


----------



## dweaver

I saw the Mavin post as well. I might take a chance on that one. The fact that they are working directly with Qualcomm gives me a bit more confidence. My only other concern is whether they will sound good. Hopefully their desire to provide bass doesn't trump sound quality.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

I'm heavily curious about Senn's, personally.

C'mon VModa, go for some True Wireless!!


----------



## howdy

SomeGuyDude said:


> I'm heavily curious about Senn's, personally.
> 
> C'mon VModa, go for some True Wireless!!


I fairly certain I will get these. I like there looks and functionality and from all reviews they are the "best" sounding. I also heard they go louder than most others which is my complaint with my Sony WF1000X. 
Seems they won't go on sale tell late November early December.


----------



## dweaver

SomeGuyDude said:


> I'm heavily curious about Senn's, personally.
> 
> C'mon VModa, go for some True Wireless!!


I think the Senns look pretty good to. My only concern is I did not like the Momentum in ears a lot signature wise and worry the wireless will have a similar signature.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

dweaver said:


> I think the Senns look pretty good to. My only concern is I did not like the Momentum in ears a lot signature wise and worry the wireless will have a similar signature.



I'd be willing to bet it's the _same_ signature. If it's the same model line I wouldn't expect a company to wildly change the sound.


----------



## jant71

Early impress on the Senn from the verge...
"It’s pleasant, warm, and inviting, and vocals are a particular highlight. I did find the bass a bit wooly, and there’s a thick filter positioned at the nozzle of these buds, probably to thicken out the bass, but that’s not necessarily a bad thing. It’s just a really relaxed and friendly sound. I think in noisy and stressful environments, which is where such wireless earphones tend to find their use, people will appreciate a tuning like this very much."


----------



## swesko

jant71 said:


> Early impress on the Senn from the verge...
> "It’s pleasant, warm, and inviting, and vocals are a particular highlight. I did find the bass a bit wooly, and there’s a thick filter positioned at the nozzle of these buds, probably to thicken out the bass, but that’s not necessarily a bad thing. It’s just a really relaxed and friendly sound. I think in noisy and stressful environments, which is where such wireless earphones tend to find their use, people will appreciate a tuning like this very much."



oh wow the verge  those guys rated the shure se535 @9.4 and hugo 2 @5.5 and its the same reviewer, talk about random paragraphs


----------



## dweaver

I may try the Senns at some point but decided to take a flier on the Mavin. It's only $99 and I only pay if they hit the $30,000 target. It been a few years since I have tried anything crowd funded. Past experiences were always late and often underwhelming but hopefully this time will prove to be the exception. Like the 8 hour playtime, it should be enough that I only have to charge them once a day.


----------



## mikp

dweaver said:


> I may try the Senns at some point but decided to take a flier on the Mavin. It's only $99 and I only pay if they hit the $30,000 target. It been a few years since I have tried anything crowd funded. Past experiences were always late and often underwhelming but hopefully this time will prove to be the exception. Like the 8 hour playtime, it should be enough that I only have to charge them once a day.



I would have bought them if it was not for indiegogo..also see now that "Chris — Agency 2.0" is involved so will wait and see if they pop up on tmall,jd etc


----------



## SilverEars (Sep 15, 2018)

Anybody looking for something that will let you use wired headphones with BT, this is an option.  This fits my needs the best.  And there's many other uses for it as well.

Fiio BTR3

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/fii...ptx-aptx-ll-aptx-hd-ldac-and-hwa-lhdc.886101/


----------



## SomeGuyDude

I mean, if your headphones have MMCX there's like a billion bluetooth cables...


----------



## SilverEars (Sep 15, 2018)

SomeGuyDude said:


> I mean, if your headphones have MMCX there's like a billion bluetooth cables...


I'll let you think about it a bit...  I understand some people needs longer time.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

SilverEars said:


> I'll let you think about it a bit...



Let's think... you said "if you want to use wired headphones with BT"... I bring up that there are tons of MMCX cables with a bluetooth receiver already...

Okay, thinking over. Point remains.


----------



## jant71

SilverEars said:


> I'll let you think about it a bit...  I understand some people needs longer time.



Fine, fine. Fixed cable phones can't use MMCX BT cables. SGD doesn't get it but you also could have been clearer to show MMCX BT wouldn't be an option. Of course this is the fully wireless thread so BT amps and BT cables don't meet the criteria


----------



## james444

SilverEars said:


> Anybody looking for something that will let you use wired headphones with BT, this is an option.  This fits my needs the best.  And there's many other uses for it as well.
> 
> Fiio BTR3
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/fii...ptx-aptx-ll-aptx-hd-ldac-and-hwa-lhdc.886101/



I've been considering this as well, but 80mW @32ohms vs. 25mW @32ohms made me opt for the Shanling M0. Pretty happy with it, it's the best BT-receiver I've had so far.


----------



## ri_toast

i just picked up some Jabra Elite 65ts while I'm waiting for some replacement Parrot Ziks 2.0 to be delivered. I've had the Jabras for a week while the Post Office is sending the Ziks on tour; NJ to New Hampshire then back to Jersey. At one point they were twenty miles from my home, good thing to have a sense of humor.
The Jabras are surprisingly good audio quality and isolation is pretty much on par or better than the average iems. Having better tips; aka foams, like the Shure series would be even better. Because the flange is odd and the depth of the stock tips is required to fit the units in the case... not a lot of options. Having a bucket of tips (small bucket) I still haven't been able to find a better fit than stock. It's like I need tips between medium and large but the large will do. Pressing buttons into your ear doesn't help with comfort. Maybe the next ones will be gesture active. What's impressed me is connection quality, talk through and basic function. Just using them on a smartphone keeps the phone unlocked...good to have. Changing music and checking messages with a trusted device instead of imputing pass codes on the phone, awesome! There's just a tiny lag on video sync but I didn't get them for video. 
Bass is full and is all there but sounds a little like a passive radiator speaker, not sharp but present. Midrange or vocals are smooth but high frequency is missing a bit of shimmer, cymbals etc.Still very listenable

Very interested in what Sennheiser will bring to the table in November.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

jant71 said:


> Fine, fine. Fixed cable phones can't use MMCX BT cables. SGD doesn't get it but you also could have been clearer to show MMCX BT wouldn't be an option. Of course this is the fully wireless thread so BT amps and BT cables don't meet the criteria



What? Fixed cable headphones exist? Holy **** I had no idea!! Does everyone know about this? Someone send an email to InnerFidelity, this needs to be front page news!! 

You'd almost think I mentioned it because exceptionally few IEMs these days have fixed cables and something like that unwieldy device would only be useful if you're using the kind of cheapass products that cost less than the thing... 

OR... maybe I mentioned it because in a thread about wireless headphones bringing up something that converts wired headphones to using Bluetooth is off topic because by that merit there's no such thing as NON-wireless headphones.

Man, life is a mystery sometimes...


----------



## Firevortex

dweaver said:


> I may try the Senns at some point but decided to take a flier on the Mavin. It's only $99 and I only pay if they hit the $30,000 target. It been a few years since I have tried anything crowd funded. Past experiences were always late and often underwhelming but hopefully this time will prove to be the exception. Like the 8 hour playtime, it should be enough that I only have to charge them once a day.




their main website is horrible. looks worse than those crypto scamming ico websites. 

i'm really at a loss as to which earbuds to buy... sound quality wise is Beoplay E8 better than jabra elite 65t?


----------



## clerkpalmer

Firevortex said:


> their main website is horrible. looks worse than those crypto scamming ico websites.
> 
> i'm really at a loss as to which earbuds to buy... sound quality wise is Beoplay E8 better than jabra elite 65t?


Why not mw07 with 10% off? Reviews last week have been very positive  many sources saying best sq available.


----------



## mikp

Firevortex said:


> their main website is horrible. looks worse than those crypto scamming ico websites.
> 
> i'm really at a loss as to which earbuds to buy... sound quality wise is Beoplay E8 better than jabra elite 65t?



I also was interested in the mavin, but looked a little closer and now see agency 2.0 is involved. Just look up their track record.. a lot of scampaigns and trash products represented.

Also the mavinlife site seems to be using a broken template from agency 2.0:



 

so to sum up some red flags, but hoping this is a good product later available from other sellers:

1.indiegogo
2.agency 2.0
3.Emails to mavinlife not answered
4.Cant find any names connected to mavinlife- mavin tech


----------



## Firevortex

clerkpalmer said:


> Why not mw07 with 10% off? Reviews last week have been very positive many sources saying best sq available.



Had a look at their site and it seems the decent colour options are all sold out. 3.5hr playback is an issue. i'll be wearing them quite a bit on the road making calls, gym, office etc... 
i got a cheap wireless earbud to test out how they perform in my daily activities, it lasts 6-7hrs with 1 charge and it's been perfect in the playback time department for mine needs. looking for a better SQ option.


----------



## clerkpalmer

3.5 hours seems to be pretty standard for for tw outside or airpods and the 65t.  Can definitely see that being an issue for some.


----------



## tomscy2000

I thinking Astrotec is getting ready to release the RedSpace S60, which are not tethered and have Qi wireless charging support.


----------



## PopZeus

After being disappointed with the construction quality of Plussound's bluetooth IEM cables, I took a chance on the BTX1 (2018 edition), and I'm happy to share that I'm digging them! The battery life is pretty short (under 5 hours), but the cable and remote/receiver unit are both very light and unobtrusive. And the audio quality is very solid for the price. No special codecs but I did notice AAC over iOS sounds better than mp3 compressed files. With a decent low-power mmcx IEM, this could be a legit solution for many casual audiophiles.


----------



## Colors

Has anyone tried the new AKG N200 Wireless IEMs?


----------



## clerkpalmer

Colors said:


> Has anyone tried the new AKG N200 Wireless IEMs?



This thread is aimed largely at true wireless options.  A quick good search shows BT 4.1, no higher quality codecs and no sweatproofing (this one's a deal breaker for me).  Doesn't look very compelling for $150 but maybe the SQ makes them worth it? AKG makes decent stuff.


----------



## Colors

clerkpalmer said:


> This thread is aimed largely at true wireless options.  A quick good search shows BT 4.1, no higher quality codecs and no sweatproofing (this one's a deal breaker for me).  Doesn't look very compelling for $150 but maybe the SQ makes them worth it? AKG makes decent stuff.



I recently tried their N5005 with their included BT dongle and while it has a lot of the stuff you mentioned (no new codecs, no new BT version), it sounded pretty incredible just straight out of my iPhone. Problem is it costs USD1000.

I was wondering if they were able to replicate whatever tech they used in there with the N200. If so, it'd be a instant buy for me.

Then again, the N5005 had 4 BA + 1 DD. I doubt this one has anything other than 1 DD.


----------



## CEE TEE

Please keep an eye/ear out on 9/28...


----------



## clerkpalmer

CEE TEE said:


> Please keep an eye/ear out on 9/28...



Care to give us a little more info?


----------



## SteveKiwi

Firevortex said:


> their main website is horrible. looks worse than those crypto scamming ico websites.
> 
> i'm really at a loss as to which earbuds to buy... sound quality wise is Beoplay E8 better than jabra elite 65t?



For what it's worth I have both and vastly prefer the 65t.

I've never been able to get a decent fit with the E8 and consequently (for me) the sound is very tinny.

I have tried every tip I can think of but no improvement.

The E8 also have issues with connectivity.

On the other hand the 65t have rock solid connectivity and sound good straight out the box.
 Sound wise they are more than acceptable for their purpose.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

clerkpalmer said:


> This thread is aimed largely at true wireless options.  A quick good search shows BT 4.1, no higher quality codecs and no sweatproofing (this one's a deal breaker for me).  Doesn't look very compelling for $150 but maybe the SQ makes them worth it? AKG makes decent stuff.



Er, it has aptX and AAC. There's no need for anything else.


----------



## clerkpalmer

SomeGuyDude said:


> Er, it has aptX and AAC. There's no need for anything else.


Probably not but 150 seems like a lot for these. I've been using ldac on my mobius and its definitely a step up  Hope we start seeing more ldac  headphones


----------



## SomeGuyDude

clerkpalmer said:


> Probably not but 150 seems like a lot for these. I've been using ldac on my mobius and its definitely a step up  Hope we start seeing more ldac  headphones



Ah yes, you're one of those unicorns that can hear bitrates above 320. Make sure to burn in those FLACs before you listen so the bits all warm up!


----------



## clerkpalmer

SomeGuyDude said:


> Ah yes, you're one of those unicorns that can hear bitrates above 320. Make sure to burn in those FLACs before you listen so the bits all warm up!


Lol. Unicorns do exist!


----------



## PopZeus

320 kbps mp3s show compression artifacts in the treble region of the frequency graph.


----------



## jrm27

Anyone seen/heard anything about these?
https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/...up7HlsLI3QIVDxoBCh3IoQklEAEYASAAEgIPFPD_BwE#/

A quick search for Fyro Aria didn't show me anything... but I may have missed it. I'm not super stoked on Indiegogo, but do acknowledge that sometimes it works!


----------



## clerkpalmer

Got my master and dynamic mw07 today. So far not great.  The left earbud has volume significantly lower than the right making them unusable.  No manual available and customer service closes at 5. Not off to a good start.  On the plus side fit and finish are truly amazing.  Will report back on customer service experience and whether the replacement solves the problem.  Suffice to say very disappointing for $300 but I'm willing to give them another chance.


----------



## clerkpalmer

jrm27 said:


> Anyone seen/heard anything about these?
> https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/...up7HlsLI3QIVDxoBCh3IoQklEAEYASAAEgIPFPD_BwE#/
> 
> A quick search for Fyro Aria didn't show me anything... but I may have missed it. I'm not super stoked on Indiegogo, but do acknowledge that sometimes it works!


 
Quick view of the comments suggests stay away


----------



## chronograf86

clerkpalmer said:


> Care to give us a little more info?



Do you understand that you're putting everyone's life in danger with asking for more information? It's totally classified and there were some who wanted to share more info, but since nobody saw them  

Now seriously, that was really cheap trick, or Massdrop is going to release something that will change Wireless IEM industry and it'll newer gonna be the same. Newer ...


----------



## clerkpalmer

chronograf86 said:


> Do you understand that you're putting everyone's life in danger with asking for more information? It's totally classified and there were some who wanted to share more info, but since nobody saw them
> 
> Now seriously, that was really cheap trick, or Massdrop is going to release something that will change Wireless IEM industry and it'll newer gonna be the same. Newer ...


Since I just dropped 270 on the mw07 and have 14 days to change my mind I was hoping for a hint!


----------



## chronograf86

Agree, would be nice to know more than was shared. Since Sennheiser and Master Dynamic released their models it's even harder for me to decide. I just hope that your experience does not reflect general situation with mw07, they look awesome and that case as well, don't like Sennehiser case at all. Polished metal is much more practical as material.


----------



## tomscy2000

Some pictures of the Astrotec Redspace S60 on loxpo.com; seems like it has none of the fancy functions like fancy active NC, step counter, HR monitoring, etc.

But at least it's affordable (under $100 I think) and supports wireless charging, along with IPX5 compliance. No listing for Apt-X support. Just BT 4.2.

IIRC, early this year or late last year, I may have seen prototypes of them, but I didn't bother listening.

Might just buy a pair for kicks, if the size is okay.


----------



## Firevortex

CEE TEE said:


> Please keep an eye/ear out on 9/28...



ahhh just ordered the 65t for a safe bet and you release this news....but wireless is definitely the future of IEMs. 
the wireless earbud tech has seen lightspeed development during the past 2 years.


----------



## jant71

The Kong-X looks pretty cool...





















BT 5.0 and powering  52ohm, 105 sens. for 5 hours per charge isn't bad. Big issue is case needs clips to be taken off to insert them unless you don't want/need to use them.


----------



## albau

These Kongs look ugly, IMHO. And the case seems to be huge


----------



## howdy

I can't wait to try these!


----------



## mikp

howdy said:


> I can't wait to try these!


same here..

only question , transparant mode only work with app?


----------



## Sharkhunter

i have an hour daily commute to NYC daily. Campfire Atlas and Andromeda was bit of a hazzle to use and ANC felt like an overkill. i picked up a used BO E8 and they were perfect. No wires dangling around your while u exiting a train or sweaty pads using Bose and Sony ANCs.

Now i am really curious how sennheiser is gonna sound when compared to E8?


----------



## howdy

Sharkhunter said:


> i have an hour daily commute to NYC daily. Campfire Atlas and Andromeda was bit of a hazzle to use and ANC felt like an overkill. i picked up a used BO E8 and they were perfect. No wires dangling around your while u exiting a train or sweaty pads using Bose and Sony ANCs.
> 
> Now i am really curious how sennheiser is gonna sound when compared to E8?


I have the E8 (and a few other BT) and hope they have great sound and features like the E8. At 300 they better be top notch.


----------



## AnakChan

CEE TEE said:


> Please keep an eye/ear out on 9/28...


Honestly can't wait to see what's coming out of your workshop. I was gonna PM you to say, true wireless is the next avenue that Massdrop should jump into - guess I didn't need to PM you .

I'm really hoping the likes of the other audiophile brands - Campfire Audio, JH Audio, etc would jump in too.

Don't get me wrong, I do like my Elite Active 65t but I'd also like to see more audiophile quality. The closest I've got to audiophile wireless in the past 2 years has been the Sony MUC-M2BT1 with my FitEar MH335SDW-SR (and Titan), but it's not true wireless.


----------



## SilverEars (Sep 22, 2018)

james444 said:


> I've been considering this as well, but 80mW @32ohms vs. 25mW @32ohms made me opt for the Shanling M0. Pretty happy with it, it's the best BT-receiver I've had so far.


I just got my M0.  I'm fairly pleased with it due to being able to connect LDAC to my smarphone.  I realized that AAC has bit of a delay when it comes to AV sync, but not with LDAC.  I was considering the FiiO due to the AptX LL, but given that I face no issue with latency with LDAC to my smartphone, M0 will do just fine.


----------



## jwbrent

Here’s the link to my review of the brand new JAYS m-Six Wireless IEMs with Bluetooth 5.0. It will be shipping soon in 4 colors for $100. I liked the sound and the dropouts which had previously turned me off to Bluetooth designs were minimal with my iPhone SE that uses Bluetooth 4.2. 5.0 devices should be a lot better in this regard.


----------



## GJ2890

jwbrent said:


> Here’s the link to my review of the brand new JAYS m-Six Wireless IEMs with Bluetooth 5.0. It will be shipping soon in 4 colors for $100. I liked the sound and the dropouts which had previously turned me off to Bluetooth designs were minimal with my iPhone SE that uses Bluetooth 4.2. 5.0 devices should be a lot better in this regard.



Thanks for this review. I really like this brand (and especially their jays q jays). The m-jays six seems like a good compromise between neckband bluetooth earphones and true wireless earphones


----------



## Van Gogh

I assume there are no high-end ($1,000+) custom IEM's that match the quality of high-end custom IEM's yet right?


----------



## nc8000

Van Gogh said:


> I assume there are no high-end ($1,000+) custom IEM's that match the quality of high-end custom IEM's yet right?



Possibly not worth it given the limited bit rate over bluetooth


----------



## Van Gogh

nc8000 said:


> Possibly not worth it given the limited bit rate over bluetooth



But Aptx HD Bluetooth people mention is better but I assume even that can't match or reach good wired connection?


----------



## nc8000

Van Gogh said:


> But Aptx HD Bluetooth people mention is better but I assume even that can't match or reach good wired connection?



It is still essentially lossy and according to many not really better than aac 320 (which I admittedly fine pretty good). I have never personally tried anything with AptX


----------



## jrm27

Van Gogh said:


> I assume there are no high-end ($1,000+) custom IEM's that match the quality of high-end custom IEM's yet right?



The closest I've found is the bluetooth cable integration that Ultimate Ears offers with their custom products. Its not true wireless, but its the closes I'e seen. Some people have said good things abbot the Bragi Dash/Starkey partnership, but I don't have any experience.


----------



## jwbrent (Sep 24, 2018)

nc8000 said:


> It is still essentially lossy and according to many not really better than aac 320 (which I admittedly fine pretty good). I have never personally tried anything with AptX



AptX HD is lossy, but the bitrate is better than 320, 576 according to this article which inexplicably refers to HD as lossless.


----------



## nc8000

jwbrent said:


> AptX HD is lossy, but the bandwidth is better than 320, 576 according to this article which inexplicable refers to HD as lossless.



Yes the bandwich is higher, but many say that it does not really translate to all that much better sq than aac 320. It probably also depends on what files you use since f.ex. Aac files will need to be transcoded to AptX so lossy to lossy and that might sound worse than using aac for bluetooth whereas a lossless file might teanscode better to AptX. As I said I have no personal experience with AptX, I use Beosound E8 on an iPhone with 320 aac files so giving my gear the optimal conditions and that is plenty good enough for on the go use for me but sq is poorer than lossless files with qJays V2 wired if I were to listen critically without background noise


----------



## jwbrent

nc8000 said:


> Yes the bandwich is higher, but many say that it does not really translate to all that much better sq than aac 320. It probably also depends on what files you use since f.ex. Aac files will need to be transcoded to AptX so lossy to lossy and that might sound worse than using aac for bluetooth whereas a lossless file might teanscode better to AptX. As I said I have no personal experience with AptX, I use Beosound E8 on an iPhone with 320 aac files so giving my gear the optimal conditions and that is plenty good enough for on the go use for me but sq is poorer than lossless files with qJays V2 wired if I were to listen critically without background noise



Yes, I agree with you here about double compression. I use an internet radio station mentioned in my JAYS m-Six review that plays FLAC files, so the Bluetooth compression isn’t bad at all.


----------



## Van Gogh

From the replies here it seems Bluetooth audio, even aptdx HD is not quite there yet for hi-fi listening, I am gonna stick with wired IEMs for now!


----------



## AnakChan

In terms of SQ-wise, I'm personally pretty satisfied with the Sony MUC-M2BT1/FitEar combo LDAC with the NW-WM1Z. Maybe I'm not as fussy however I wouldn't discredit a high end IEM over Bluetooth yet - given a decent codec.


----------



## nc8000

AnakChan said:


> In terms of SQ-wise, I'm personally pretty satisfied with the Sony MUC-M2BT1/FitEar combo LDAC with the NW-WM1Z. Maybe I'm not as fussy however I wouldn't discredit a high end IEM over Bluetooth yet - given a decent codec.



Totally agree that it will happen one day and LDAC atm. is the best codec but not widely supported and not at all in any true wireless as far as I know


----------



## clerkpalmer

nc8000 said:


> Totally agree that it will happen one day and LDAC atm. is the best codec but not widely supported and not at all in any true wireless as far as I know


I was ridiculed a bit last week for singing the praises of ldac. Its absolutely an upgrade over AAC.  Hoping Sony puts LDAC in their next tw.


----------



## nc8000

clerkpalmer said:


> I was ridiculed a bit last week for singing the praises of ldac. Its absolutely an upgrade over AAC.  Hoping Sony puts LDAC in their next tw.



Tried LDAC on the 1000XM2 full size from my WM1Z and that certainly sounded very nice


----------



## jant71

clerkpalmer said:


> I was ridiculed a bit last week for singing the praises of ldac. Its absolutely an upgrade over AAC.  Hoping Sony puts LDAC in their next tw.



We already know the next, SP900, won't have it.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

Isn't the SP900 basically a swimmer's version of the SP700? I didn't think it was actually an upgrade.

Either way I love my sp700 to pieces. Only way I'm getting a new pair is if VModa makes a true wireless set because I'm a total slut for their house sound.


----------



## jant71

SP900 has balanced armature drivers. IIRC, SP700 has dynamic?


----------



## david8613

Saw this in an email I got. 


I also hear samsung patent a new name for another truewireless set that is coming out very soon, anyone know anything about it. I'm pretty sure its gonna be good!


----------



## TooFrank

nc8000 said:


> Tried LDAC on the 1000XM2 full size from my WM1Z and that certainly sounded very nice


I can only confirm that LDAC sounds very nice with the XM3 too (from a Sony nw-zx2)


----------



## jwbrent

david8613 said:


> Saw this in an email I got.
> 
> 
> I also hear samsung patent a new name for another truewireless set that is coming out very soon, anyone know anything about it. I'm pretty sure its gonna be good!




Master & Dynamic has a new TWS, too, but my interest is on the new Sennheiser coming in November.


----------



## Sharkhunter

i recently acquired a B&O E8 and absolutely love the form factor for commute.

i am really curious how Sennheiser is going to be. i wish if there would be any discounts on Sennheiser TWS.


----------



## webvan

david8613 said:


> Brought some of those spinfits for my *jabra elite sport*, jabra elite 65t active, samsung iconx 2018. Currently using comply, Thanks.



Which ones did you get for your Jabra Elite Sport ? It seems the CP100Z instead of the CP100 are recommended for Truly Wireless to be able to close the charging case but when I look at the Spinfit website the L size is 9.9mm deep for both models so it's a bit confusing !
CP100Z : https://www.spinfiteartip.com/product-detail/48
CP100 : https://www.spinfiteartip.com/product-detail/30


----------



## episiarch

A question about that: does the charging case work at all if the tips are large? 

I need large aftermarket tips with everything (stock large is never large enough), so I've assumed 65t is nonviable for me. But I've never seen one in person, so I'm not clear how much leeway there is to get the charging contacts to work if I have large tips. 

I could remove the tips every time I charge of course, but it would be nice if there were another way.


----------



## mikp

anyone read something about multipoint on the sennheisers or at?

Regarding ldac etc maybe the transfer rate is a problem when keeping connection?  aptx has been normal on "ordinary" bt earbuds for a long time


----------



## yukiorui

Has anyone been able to compare the MW07 against the Beoplay E8, Active 65T, etc., and provide in-depth comparisons on the sound quality?


----------



## Firevortex (Sep 27, 2018)

yukiorui said:


> Has anyone been able to compare the MW07 against the Beoplay E8, Active 65T, etc., and provide in-depth comparisons on the sound quality?



few pages back someone bought a pair. seems the volume is so bad there is no comparison? lol



clerkpalmer said:


> Got my master and dynamic mw07 today. So far not great.  The left earbud has volume significantly lower than the right making them unusable.  No manual available and customer service closes at 5. Not off to a good start.  On the plus side fit and finish are truly amazing.  Will report back on customer service experience and whether the replacement solves the problem.  Suffice to say very disappointing for $300 but I'm willing to give them another chance.


----------



## Musicdiver1957

clerkpalmer said:


> Got my master and dynamic mw07 today. So far not great.  The left earbud has volume significantly lower than the right making them unusable.  No manual available and customer service closes at 5. Not off to a good start.  On the plus side fit and finish are truly amazing.  Will report back on customer service experience and whether the replacement solves the problem.  Suffice to say very disappointing for $300 but I'm willing to give them another chance.




Did you ever solve the issues with the MW07s and get to test them?


----------



## clerkpalmer

Musicdiver1957 said:


> Did you ever solve the issues with the MW07s and get to test them?



Replacements arrive today.  Customer service was helpful albeit a little difficult to reach. Once I tracked them down, they jumped on it for me.  I'll report back once I try them out.


----------



## clerkpalmer (Sep 27, 2018)

clerkpalmer said:


> Replacements arrive today.  Customer service was helpful albeit a little difficult to reach. Once I tracked them down, they jumped on it for me.  I'll report back once I try them out.



Good news to report.  Replacements sound excellent.  There was clearly something wrong with the first pair.  These things sound amazing for a TW earphone.  I owned the E8 briefly and these blow them away in terms of SQ and equally important (to me) fit. I could never get the E8 to seat well.  These stay put in my ears.  I could definitely use these in the gym (but for the fear of $300 headphones getting soaked).  Sound signature leans toward a warm "fun" signature. Lots of bass but not overwhelming.  More balanced than the Sony for sure.  In the past, I almost always opt for wired headphones over TW except for the gym.  I could see myself using these as a daily driver.  These compare favorably to many over ear/one ear BT headsets.

Final note, for almost half the price, the Sony compare very favorably to these.  The MW07 beat them out for SQ but the gap isn't huge.  Clearly paying for the fit and finish here as well.

I'll report back after further listens.  These are the first pair of TW I've tried that don't feel like a compromise.  Definitely gonna be a good fight with the Senns.


----------



## fjeena

After reading through the last few pages of thhi thread I decided to pull the trigger on the jabra 65t and I'm quite disappointed to be honest. 

They don't sound bad, but I don't think they sound great either. I would have considered keeping them but there is noticeable lag when watching most videos on Netflix/YouTube on my phone. 

I bought these mostly for travelling, so lag on a video is unacceptable. So I will be returning them

Do all wireless headphones/iems suffer from this?

I was considering the 1000xm3 but now I'm concerned that they might be the same.


----------



## Sharkhunter

fjeena said:


> After reading through the last few pages of thhi thread I decided to pull the trigger on the jabra 65t and I'm quite disappointed to be honest.
> 
> They don't sound bad, but I don't think they sound great either. I would have considered keeping them but there is noticeable lag when watching most videos on Netflix/YouTube on my phone.
> 
> ...


i use BO E8 and dont notice any lag on youtube and netflix.


----------



## MIBUK

I own the Earin M2s. Perfect on Netflix & a very, very tiny delay on YouTube, but not so noticeable that it affects my enjoyment. Even a cheap wireless pair I bought from Amazon were quite good in this respect. But as with all these new TWS products, there isn’t the perfect IEM yet. But the M-2 suits my needs for commuting & running.


----------



## webvan

fjeena said:


> After reading through the last few pages of thhi thread I decided to pull the trigger on the jabra 65t and I'm quite disappointed to be honest.
> 
> They don't sound bad, but I don't think they sound great either. I would have considered keeping them but there is noticeable lag when watching most videos on Netflix/YouTube on my phone.
> 
> ...



For the sound, are you getting a good seal ?
For the lag, there's always going to be a bit of lag but the Jabra's are not bad for that normally, as measured on rtings.com - they Jaybird Run are way worse for instance.


----------



## Rickyearl

clerkpalmer said:


> Good news to report.  Replacements sound excellent.  There was clearly something wrong with the first pair.  These things sound amazing for a TW earphone.  I owned the E8 briefly and these blow them away in terms of SQ and equally important (to me) fit. I could never get the E8 to seat well.  These stay put in my ears.  I could definitely use these in the gym (but for the fear of $300 headphones getting soaked).  Sound signature leans toward a warm "fun" signature. Lots of bass but not overwhelming.  More balanced than the Sony for sure.  In the past, I almost always opt for wired headphones over TW except for the gym.  I could see myself using these as a daily driver.  These compare favorably to many over ear/one ear BT headsets.
> 
> Final note, for almost half the price, the Sony compare very favorably to these.  The MW07 beat them out for SQ but the gap isn't huge.  Clearly paying for the fit and finish here as well.
> 
> I'll report back after further listens.  These are the first pair of TW I've tried that don't feel like a compromise.  Definitely gonna be a good fight with the Senns.



Are they any louder than the E8s?


----------



## fjeena

Sharkhunter said:


> i use BO E8 and dont notice any lag on youtube and netflix.



I was considering the E8 initially but the reviews on battery life/sq seemed to favour the 65t more. 



MIBUK said:


> I own the Earin M2s. Perfect on Netflix & a very, very tiny delay on YouTube, but not so noticeable that it affects my enjoyment. Even a cheap wireless pair I bought from Amazon were quite good in this respect. But as with all these new TWS products, there isn’t the perfect IEM yet. But the M-2 suits my needs for commuting & running.



I hadn't heard of these before, will do some research 



webvan said:


> For the sound, are you getting a good seal ?
> For the lag, there's always going to be a bit of lag but the Jabra's are not bad for that normally, as measured on rtings.com - they Jaybird Run are way worse for instance.



Yes I'm getting a good seal and I'm not expecting them to blow me away, but I was really underwhelmed. Nevertheless, lag was unacceptable so even if sound quality was amazing I would still be returning them


----------



## clerkpalmer

Rickyearl said:


> Are they any louder than the E8s?


They are pretty loud.  Cant imagine it would be an issue.


----------



## nc8000

fjeena said:


> I was considering the E8 initially but the reviews on battery life/sq seemed to favour the 65t more.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



The E8 gives me perfectly acceptable sq and a little over 4 hours play time per full charge


----------



## albau (Sep 28, 2018)

fjeena said:


> After reading through the last few pages of thhi thread I decided to pull the trigger on the jabra 65t and I'm quite disappointed to be honest.They don't sound bad, but I don't think they sound great either. I would have considered keeping them but there is noticeable lag when watching most videos on Netflix/YouTube on my phone. ...


I have 65t for a few months already. Hard to comment on perceived SQ issues without knowing if you found a well sealed fit and what are your expectations and audio background. To my ears accustomed to Westone W4 wired IEMs and high-end AKG cans, Jabras sound surprisingly good for what they are. At least no worse than decent $100 wired IEMs with single dynamic drivers. I also had B&O E8 and found them sounding only marginally better but having rather unstable connection. When running on a treadmill or travelling I watch on my phone Netflix and Amazon Prime Video a lot. Don't see any major soundtrack delays, at least not something that would bother me. I think with delay a lot depends if your phone supports AAC codec as my Galaxy S8 does. Otherwise the link will fallback to SBC, which is known to have problems with video. Jabras support only AAC and SBC. On a side note, what I like most about 65t is their rock-solid BT5 connection and well thought and fluid user interface. Battery life and form factor are also decent.


----------



## bujinkan

https://en-uk.sennheiser.com/momentum-truewireless
New kid on the block available mid november


----------



## jant71

CEE TEE said:


> Please keep an eye/ear out on 9/28...



Okaaaaaaaaaay...


----------



## Sharkhunter

jant71 said:


> Okaaaaaaaaaay...


isnt it today?


----------



## jrm27

jant71 said:


> Okaaaaaaaaaay...


Indeed, I've been keeping an eye out!


----------



## Rickyearl

bujinkan said:


> https://en-uk.sennheiser.com/momentum-truewireless
> New kid on the block available mid november



I was pretty excited about these until I saw the specs.  On paper it doesn't wow me compared to the Audio-Technica or the MW07.  Then again, everything sounds flat on paper.


----------



## fjeena

bujinkan said:


> https://en-uk.sennheiser.com/momentum-truewireless
> New kid on the block available mid november



I would be happy to wait for these but doing a lot of traveling next month so kind of wanted them before I leave


----------



## mikesider

CEE TEE said:


> Please keep an eye/ear out on 9/28...


So... do you have something to announce today?


----------



## clerkpalmer

mikesider said:


> So... do you have something to announce today?


Eyes and ears are out ...

 come on massdrop dont bomb our thread with promises you can't keep!


----------



## srinivasvignesh

I was waiting for the same as well.... the announcement from Massdrop.... When is it coming?


----------



## Jazza517

After a year of investment in kickstarter, I finally received the EOZ air, the connectivity is the best I have come across all the true wireless I have tried or owned, definitely better compare to E8 and Bose. There were no disconnection or interference when commute in metro or when I am in a extremely crowded street. In terms of sound, of course you cannot compare to the mid tier IEMs but they are on par with those entry levels. Seems my wait is worth it.


----------



## webvan

I've never had any connection problems with my Jabra Elite Sport so more important to my eyes (ears) is how do they sound compared to the other TW IEMs you've tried ? How comfortable are they, I'm a bit concerned about the brackets/antennas, especially if you wear sunglasses. How's the seal with the silicon and memory foam (apparently they removed one size of memory foam tips?) ? Thanks !


----------



## Jazza517

webvan said:


> I've never had any connection problems with my Jabra Elite Sport so more important to my eyes (ears) is how do they sound compared to the other TW IEMs you've tried ? How comfortable are they, I'm a bit concerned about the brackets/antennas, especially if you wear sunglasses. How's the seal with the silicon and memory foam (apparently they removed one size of memory foam tips?) ? Thanks !


I am not sure if you are talking about Air, since it is tear drop shape with ear hook, the fitting is very comfortable, the Sound isolation is good especially if apply the comply tips. Though to those wear glasses, it would be quite troublesome.


----------



## PopZeus (Sep 29, 2018)

bujinkan said:


> https://en-uk.sennheiser.com/momentum-truewireless
> New kid on the block available mid november



This is kinda what I was thinking the whole wireless IEMs was leading to. At least something in this form factor. Loving the design. Still no LDAC support. But maybe their AAC and Apt-X decoding is good enough for most people? Curious to hear users’ impressions.


----------



## nc8000

PopZeus said:


> This is kinda what I was thinking the whole wireless IEMs was leading to. At least something in this form factor. Loving the design. Still no LDAC support. But maybe their AAC and Apt-X decoding is good enough for most people? Curious to hear users’ impressions.



Essentially same form factor and spec as the Beoplay E8.


----------



## ri_toast

mass adaption of ldac and hd is certainly down the road. not a reason to delay enjoying true wireless now. just the other day i put on some over the back of the ears headphone cables and was absolutely annoyed by having to wear wires; even the straight down ones seem clunky.


----------



## Sharkhunter

nc8000 said:


> Essentially same form factor and spec as the Beoplay E8.


E8 doesnt support aptx.


----------



## jrm27

The Sennheiser look look interesting, but I must've been spoiled by the aesthetics of my old Bragi ';The Headphone". I really dislike how so many of these options stick so far out of the ears.. .they look like giant bolts coming our of your head. I love my Westone ES3 and 5 not only because fo the sound, but because of the low profile. I realize that TW pieces have a lot more to cram in that a pair of custom IEM, but the bragis really were low profile and disappeared into my ears. If I had my back turned to someone, they had no idea I was even wearing them.... cant tel you how many conversations I missed  I just wish there were some better low profile solutions.


----------



## nc8000

Sharkhunter said:


> E8 doesnt support aptx.



Didn’t spot that. I’m on iPhone so aptx was no priority for me


----------



## albau

nc8000 said:


> Didn’t spot that. I’m on iPhone so aptx was no priority for me


Can't understand this AptX cult. By all technical and subjective accounts AAC is comparable, and both better than SBC. Even on my Android phone (Galaxy S8) my 65t use AAC. It's just a common denominator between iOS and latest Android versions. So why wireless IEMs would implement another sonically comparable codec?


----------



## mikp

albau said:


> Can't understand this AptX cult. By all technical and subjective accounts AAC is comparable, and both better than SBC. Even on my Android phone (Galaxy S8) my 65t use AAC. It's just a common denominator between iOS and latest Android versions. So why wireless IEMs would implement another sonically comparable codec?




Maybe..just maybe someone uses a source that has apt-x but not aac..


----------



## albau

mikp said:


> Maybe..just maybe someone uses a source that has apt-x but not aac..


Maybe.. just maybe top wireless IEM manufacturers figured that majority of folks who can drop $150+ on a pair of buds would probably also have latest phones? Luddities and picky audiophiles be damned .


----------



## SomeGuyDude

Considering I literally can't see them while I'm wearing them I don't understand the big deal unless they're insanely goofy looking. Bose get a knock on that front because they literally will move around from sticking out so far.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

mikp said:


> Maybe..just maybe someone uses a source that has apt-x but not aac..



Those would be "old and/or cheap sources" for the most part. With android now utilizing AAC I have a feeling that apt-X is falling by the wayside. It'd be nice if LDAC wasn't Sony proprietary.


----------



## albau

If somebody wants really small wireless buds Rowkin’s new Ascent line fits the bill. Soundguys actually liked them, check it out at https://www.soundguys.com/rowkin-ascent-micro-review-19571/. BT5 for $120, but no AAC or AptX.


----------



## mikp

SomeGuyDude said:


> Those would be "old and/or cheap sources" for the most part. With android now utilizing AAC I have a feeling that apt-X is falling by the wayside. It'd be nice if LDAC wasn't Sony proprietary.


well, my hiby r3 has ldac and apt-x but no aac. My g7 has everything, but I dont use that phone while hiking,,

Seems the latest at and sennheiser has both,--there are other sources than the latest phones.


----------



## yukiorui

CEE TEE said:


> Please keep an eye/ear out on 9/28...



I might have missed out on an announcement - could someone kindly let me know what was announced on Massdrop?


----------



## Firevortex

yukiorui said:


> I might have missed out on an announcement - could someone kindly let me know what was announced on Massdrop?



nothing... was just hot air.


----------



## srinivasvignesh

@CEE TEE Any updates ?


----------



## albau

Rickyearl said:


> I was pretty excited about these until I saw the specs.  On paper it doesn't wow me compared to the Audio-Technica or the MW07.  Then again, everything sounds flat on paper.


What do they lack vs those two?


----------



## CEE TEE

srinivasvignesh said:


> @CEE TEE Any updates ?


Hey Guys,
This is a reminder why we don't usually throw out a hint, things can come up...sorry but we are experiencing a delay.  I'll be back when things are ready.  
Thanks for keeping an eye out and we'll make sure it was worth the wait.


----------



## Rickyearl

albau said:


> What do they lack vs those two?



A few things I will dig through the stuff I found.  First there's the 7mm vs. 11/10mm driver - I know women tell me size isn't everything, but that seems to match up with some of the other stuff I read from the reports from when they were shown off at IFA.  Those indicate that they are a bit fuzzy in the lows and are balanced toward "consumer-friendly" sound, which I usually interpret as that low-detail V signature that most people seem to like but I don't.

https://www.soundguys.com/sennheiser-momentum-true-wireless-earbuds-19270/

https://www.theverge.com/circuitbre...entum-true-wireless-earbuds-hands-on-ifa-2018


----------



## Hanesu (Oct 2, 2018)

Moved this to a different thread!


----------



## Dcell7

RHA is joining the game

https://www.rha-audio.com/uk/products/headphones/true-connect?c=150


----------



## ImSyko

Anybody heard anything about these... https://www.rha-audio.com/us/products/headphones/true-connect


----------



## david8613

I am wondering how the control scheme is going to be? I need volume up down and skip tracks/forward fast.


----------



## Firevortex

From the web site it seems rha is focusing on bt5 connection and style? No. Mention of SQ


----------



## Spamateur

RHA's site doesn't mention which codec it's using either. The Amazon page only lists SBC. I feel like AAC is the absolute minimum for sound quality.


----------



## clerkpalmer

I'd be pretty shocked and disappointed if SBC only.  the MA650 and 750 support Aptx and AAC.


----------



## srinivasvignesh

Nokia is also launching "Truely wireless" today!


----------



## webvan

Link : https://www.nokia.com/en_int/phones/nokia-true-wireless-earbuds


----------



## Spamateur

3.5 hours of playback time for the Nokia? That's highly disappointing. At this point it seems like almost all new true wireless designs from the big manufacturers are managing a minimum of 4 hours of battery life, but most are hitting 5.


----------



## Spamateur

clerkpalmer said:


> I'd be pretty shocked and disappointed if SBC only.  the MA650 and 750 support Aptx and AAC.



That's promising. I shot their customer support an email to see what sort of codec it's using and will report back if I hear from them. Hopefully with all their product information focusing on them being a lifestyle product there hasn't been a compromise on sound quality or Bluetooth codec.


----------



## Rickyearl

webvan said:


> Link : https://www.nokia.com/en_int/phones/nokia-true-wireless-earbuds


Wow those look almost exactly like the oriignal Earin.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

The fact that no one ever mentions codecs is just hilarious, talking about Bluetooth 5.0 like that means very much.


----------



## albau (Oct 4, 2018)

SomeGuyDude said:


> The fact that no one ever mentions codecs is just hilarious, talking about Bluetooth 5.0 like that means very much.


It means steady connectivity, which everybody can relate to. On the other hand not sure how many of the target audience accustomed to bundled buds even know what codec is, much less appreciate subtle sonic differences. And that while listening to already super compressed stream sitting on a train or running or working out.


----------



## srinivasvignesh

Now, isn't this what a review should be /s

http://majorhifi.com/rha-trueconnect-true-wireless-earphones-review/

They claim this to be a review.  Amazing....


----------



## Hoplite

Spamateur said:


> RHA's site doesn't mention which codec it's using either. The Amazon page only lists SBC. I feel like AAC is the absolute minimum for sound quality.


Checked their instagram. No AAC and it has V shape signature


----------



## clerkpalmer

Hoplite said:


> Checked their instagram. No AAC and it has V shape signature


 
I'm hoping they haven't listed it yet. That would be a massive mistake by RHA. I'll be cancelling my preorder. I agree with spamateur that no AAC is a deal breaker.

Edit: RHA if youre watching this thread (and I know you are) please confirm AAC.


----------



## Firevortex

srinivasvignesh said:


> Now, isn't this what a review should be /s
> 
> http://majorhifi.com/rha-trueconnect-true-wireless-earphones-review/
> 
> They claim this to be a review.  Amazing....



sounds as if its written by a high schooler. it's got Bluetooth 5.0 baby! so it must have higher resolution sound! 
yeah....no.... won't even touch this RHA crap. their web page hasn't got much info other than its got Bluetooth 5.0 and clean stylish design!  
the marketing is worse than Mavin Air-X. at least Mavin is trying with their specs...


----------



## ri_toast

looks more like little ray guns <phew phew>
that aside, more people will be interested in transducer quality, stability of connection and usability.
my player only has bt4.1 and frankly it's ok, not hd but ok. i really don't care how it works as long as it works.

rha has made some quality products, time will tell.


----------



## clerkpalmer

Here is the answer:


*Lucy* (RHA) 

Oct 5, 9:05 AM BST

Hi Tim,

Thanks for your email. The TrueConnect supports Bluetooth AAC and aptX codecs and is fully compatible with all phone operating systems.

I hope this information has been helpful, please do not hesitate to contact me if I can provide further details.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

albau said:


> It means steady connectivity, which everybody can relate to. On the other hand not sure how many of the target audience accustomed to bundled buds even know what codec is, much less appreciate subtle sonic differences. And that while listening to already super compressed stream sitting on a train or running or working out.



For headphones, bluetooth 4.0 is plenty stable. Hell 3 is stable enough for headphones. 

The difference between janky-ass SBC and aptx/aac is not gonna be subtle if you're listening to music above 128 and even if someone doesn't know a codec from a coke bottle they'll know that something sound better, and given that headphones are ostensibly an audio product you'd think that would be important.


----------



## Hoplite

clerkpalmer said:


> Here is the answer:
> 
> 
> *Lucy* (RHA)
> ...


Interesting, this is conflicting to what was told on instagram


----------



## srinivasvignesh (Oct 6, 2018)

This is good to know. Makes me optimistic. But, we should know that the target audience during social media marketing is probably not the people on head-fi and we are really a minority of the business they target/get.


----------



## Itson

I've got some conflicting information regarding aac/aptx. "


" Thanks for contacting us and for your interest in the TrueConnect. The TrueConncet does not have AAC or AptX codex. However, does use Bluetooth 5 to ensure a strong, stable connect with great audio quaility."

Follow-up answer:

""For the design of the TrueConnect, we understand that the majority of users will be using streaming services for their music and almost all streaming services are not aptX compatible so we have chosen to use SBC codex, this also allows the device to be more compact and more beneficial to battery performance. 

The TrueConnect does have really excellent call quaility, the stem design allows the microphone and reciver to work very well. 

The TrueConnect will be avaible from our retailers from the 18th of October onwards."


----------



## mikp

Itson said:


> I've got some conflicting information regarding aac/aptx. "
> 
> 
> 
> ...



ha, what a bull answer.. "...we have chosen to use SBC"   the bare minimum for bt.    wonder what cheap chip they are using


----------



## Hoplite

That sucks :/
I guess I will have to wait for review or wait for what Beyerdynamics will come up with


----------



## clerkpalmer

What the hell. How did one person say AAC and aptx and another say SBC!  RHA please set the record straight. I  know you watch these forums.


----------



## clerkpalmer

Itson said:


> I've got some conflicting information regarding aac/aptx. "
> 
> 
> " Thanks for contacting us and for your interest in the TrueConnect. The TrueConncet does not have AAC or AptX codex. However, does use Bluetooth 5 to ensure a strong, stable connect with great audio quaility."
> ...



This doesn't even make sense. Streaming services don't support aptx? Huh? Surprised a company like RHA let this response go out the door....


----------



## murph65 (Oct 6, 2018)

Does anyone have the time with far more knowledge on this subject than I (it would be nice and helpful for those interested in the "Truly Wireless Scene" ) to put together a post listing the various truly wireless products. Say a link to the product and also include in the post the battery life (hours buds) (hours case) and also the codec and bluetooth support. If you've trialed or own/owned a particular product, a few words about it would be certainly welcome.  Hopefully this post could then turn into a sticky as a quick reference guide. A Big Thank You if someone takes this on.


----------



## webvan

Hum...let's see : 
1. Go here : https://www.rtings.com/headphones/tests/ - choose the feature you're interested in  (isolation sound, etc...)
2. Add a colum for Wireless, check True Wireless 
3. Read Up...it will take a while as they've tested about anything you can imagine...and more ! Best info available on the internet AFAIK and they add new headphones regularly.
Any specific questions, fire away here and I'm sure people will be happy to help.


----------



## murph65

webvan said:


> Hum...let's see :
> 1. Go here : https://www.rtings.com/headphones/tests/ - choose the feature you're interested in  (isolation sound, etc...)
> 2. Add a colum for Wireless, check True Wireless
> 3. Read Up...it will take a while as they've tested about anything you can imagine...and more ! Best info available on the internet AFAIK and they add new headphones regularly.
> Any specific questions, fire away here and I'm sure people will be happy to help.




    Is that what i asked for lol!

     Look - i simply asked if someone with a passion and knowledge in this field, had time on their hands to put together a complete list on this topic. My work is weather related so i could possibly do it myself but by the looks of it, couldn't get to it for a few weeks. For someone here that is retired/semi retired, they may want to tackle it which would be great. Still believe it would be useful info all tied into one post!


----------



## ri_toast

really like that website webvan, plenty of info there. opinion backed up with data which is exactly what reviews should be. most current (mainstream) true wireless are there. i always wonder about the ones i see on ebay and how the cheap ones compare. usually i pass on the unknown.


----------



## webvan (Oct 6, 2018)

Sure !



murph65 said:


> Is that what i asked for lol!
> 
> Look - i simply asked if someone with a passion and knowledge in this field, had time on their hands to put together a complete list on this topic. My work is weather related so i could possibly do it myself but by the looks of it, couldn't get to it for a few weeks. For someone here that is retired/semi retired, they may want to tackle it which would be great. Still believe it would be useful info all tied into one post!


Great, looks like you forgot to say thanks, anyway...have you even bothered following the link and filtering out the Truly Wireless earbuds to see what's available or are you still on your little "wow the internet is cool, let me find an expert who's going to come up with an executive summary for me and maybe he can be rewarded with a sticky" trip ?


----------



## murph65

webvan said:


> Sure !
> 
> 
> Great, looks like you forgot to say thanks, anyway...have you even bothered following the link and filtering out the Truly Wireless earbuds to see what's available or are you still on your little "wow the internet is cool, let me find an expert who's going to come up with an executive summary for me and maybe he can be rewarded with a sticky" trip ?



     I'll bite my tongue and play nice!  

  You seem to crave gratitude so yes, Thank You and YES, I did check that out but are you saying that there are only 11 Truly Wireless products on the market? That's all they have listed! The purpose of my comment was to create and have an "Ongoing, Continually Updated List" of ALL Truly Wireless Products on the market or ones that are close to being released to the market. All in one place so it's easy to compare them all in price, battery life, features, etc instead of having to peruse 80 pages of a thread for tidbits here and there. Anyways, Enjoy Your Weekend!


----------



## clerkpalmer

Update in the master and dynamic mw07. These are sweet sounding earphones. Unfortunately the left bud suffers from hiss. Only in the left bud. According to support this is normal but it can be heard in soft music passages which is too bad. Mine are going back for this. At 300 I don't want hiss. My sonys don't do this.


----------



## defbear

Nuheara IQbuds Boost

I bought a set of Nuheara IQbuds Boost wireless earbuds. This is one of the ‘new breed’ of ‘Intelligent wireless earbuds’ that allow you to blend in the outside world in with your music, podcast, or whatever. You need to download their companion App. Nuheara makes a big deal about their Ear I.D. Audiometric Personalization. So what that means is that first time out of the box you can choose to take a hearing test. A real one like in your Audiologist office. Tones in each ear. Tap when you hear the tone. From what I read, Nuheara in Australia, licensed an official known and in-use everywhere test. And paid a bunch of money to get it. So if you buy these, take the test. I took dozens of similar tests at NAMM administered by the House Ear Clinic in L.A. So cool, you can take the test as much as you want. You can also toggle the results on and off. You are going to want it on. The earbuds adjust themselves to your personal test. It works! The test does not give you a Medical result. This is not a medical device. But it can give you super hearing. The big deal about this type of earbud is that it allows you to blend in the outside world. Sounds like a ho-hum gimmick. Nope! This is great. Using the App you can craft four profiles for letting the outside world in. You choose the ratio between your music and the outside world. EQ the outside world from bass to treble. Even focus on sounds on front, rejecting side sounds. So they are called Boost and yes you can boost the outside world and EQ it for some really enhanced hearing. And then it hit me. “I can EQ the outside world” Double Rainbow man! You can store four presets. Tap to swap. Tap and hold to shut the world out.

So just as Wireless Earbuds these are sensational. Music sounds balanced and detailed with ample tight bass. The App nor any of the other Hearing Trickery affect the sound of the music / audio being played. You can have your music pretty cranked and still hear what’s going on around you and hold conversations. There are three Tap Controls for each earpiece. Left Tap, Left Double Tap and Left Long Tap. Same thing for the Right hand side. You get to program what each of the six tap choices does. Very Nice. Programmable Tap controls. Okay! Next is how stable is the connection? I have been using these since June 2018. It’s now October. Been testing and listening for a while. I wore these at the Del Mar Fair. It is a gigantic hot bed of every type of electronic interference possible. My iPhone 6-S hanging on my hip the IQbuds were rock solid. Like a wired connection. The other bonus was setting up a preset for conversation in a noisy environment. A gigantic county fair is noisy. With my tunes in the background, conversation with my companions was loud and clear. 

I didn’t mean this review to go on so long. So my Review in a nutshell is, the IQbuds Boost do what they purport to do and do it much better than I would have thought possible. They are great sounding earbuds that remind me of my HD600’s with a bit more bass. They have a nice soundstage. Now here is something interesting. If I let some of the outside world in, the soundstage gets wider. Like open back headphones. But these do not do that acoustically but with microphones. I may be full of it. These work great for phone calls and it’s in both ears. You get large and small Comply tips and fours sets of Round tips and four sets of Oval. Comfy and they don’t fall out. You are more active than I am. Trust me. The charging case has a strong magnetic catch. You have to make sure the contact points seat to charge the buds. No magnets like Bose. Pricey! I paid $399 early bird sale down from a whopping $499. Having lived with these for several months I would pay the $499. I use all the features in a variety of situations. I am certain we are going to see a boatload of similar featured products.


----------



## Firevortex (Oct 7, 2018)

defbear said:


> Nuheara IQbuds Boost
> 
> So they are called Boost and yes you can boost the outside world and EQ it for some really enhanced hearing. And then it hit me. “I can EQ the outside world” Double Rainbow man! You can store four presets. Tap to swap. Tap and hold to shut the world out.



nice info. how well do they work with noise cancellation? or does it just have passive NC?


----------



## episiarch

defbear said:


> Nuheara IQbuds Boost
> 
> I bought a set of Nuheara IQbuds Boost wireless earbuds. This is one of the ‘new breed’ of ‘Intelligent wireless earbuds’ that allow you to blend in the outside world in with your music, podcast, or whatever. You need to download their companion App. Nuheara makes a big deal about their Ear I.D. Audiometric Personalization. So what that means is that first time out of the box you can choose to take a hearing test. A real one like in your Audiologist office. Tones in each ear. Tap when you hear the tone. From what I read, Nuheara in Australia, licensed an official known and in-use everywhere test. And paid a bunch of money to get it. So if you buy these, take the test. I took dozens of similar tests at NAMM administered by the House Ear Clinic in L.A. So cool, you can take the test as much as you want. You can also toggle the results on and off. You are going to want it on. The earbuds adjust themselves to your personal test. It works! The test does not give you a Medical result. This is not a medical device. But it can give you super hearing. The big deal about this type of earbud is that it allows you to blend in the outside world. Sounds like a ho-hum gimmick. Nope! This is great. Using the App you can craft four profiles for letting the outside world in. You choose the ratio between your music and the outside world. EQ the outside world from bass to treble. Even focus on sounds on front, rejecting side sounds. So they are called Boost and yes you can boost the outside world and EQ it for some really enhanced hearing. And then it hit me. “I can EQ the outside world” Double Rainbow man! You can store four presets. Tap to swap. Tap and hold to shut the world out.
> 
> ...



Thanks very much for this review! It was definitely not too long for me. There are a lot of things I've been wondering about these, including the effectiveness of the boost, the effectiveness of the focus-on-front feature, the SQ, the EQ, and the stability of the connection — and you covered them all. So thanks again — this was hugely useful for me.

My remaining main question has to do with fit. I have hard-to-fit ears, and nearly always need aftermarket eartips. So my remaining questions are, 1) do you think the IQBuds are bulky enough to make fit more difficult than average, for hard-to-fit ears? And 2) does the charging case look like it would accommodate larger eartips than the supplied ones, or would it fail to close or to charge?  I'd be grateful for any thoughts you have.


----------



## webvan

Firevortex said:


> nice info. how well do they work with noise cancellation? or does it just have passive NC?


Probably just passive, they have some LiveIQ Earbuds coming out in Q4 2018 that look promising : https://www.nuheara.com/liveiq/ and probably more adapted for music listening as opposed to acting as a hearing aid and hopefully a bit cheaper as a result !


----------



## defbear (Oct 7, 2018)

Firevortex said:


> nice info. how well do they work with noise cancellation? or does it just have passive NC?


The IQbuds Boost do not feature any type of ANC or Noise Cancellation that I am aware of. Just passive. I have a set of Bose QC20’s in ear with NC. So I am aware of buds with NC. I am not missing it on these with all it’s features.
I’m not sure NC would be compatible with all the other electronic nonsense going on. Or, I’ve got it! Wait for version II


----------



## defbear

episiarch said:


> Thanks very much for this review! It was definitely not too long for me. There are a lot of things I've been wondering about these, including the effectiveness of the boost, the effectiveness of the focus-on-front feature, the SQ, the EQ, and the stability of the connection — and you covered them all. So thanks again — this was hugely useful for me.
> 
> My remaining main question has to do with fit. I have hard-to-fit ears, and nearly always need aftermarket eartips. So my remaining questions are, 1) do you think the IQBuds are bulky enough to make fit more difficult than average, for hard-to-fit ears? And 2) does the charging case look like it would accommodate larger eartips than the supplied ones, or would it fail to close or to charge?  I'd be grateful for any thoughts you have.


I usually use the size marked L. Large. IQbuds includes 10 sets. I am using the largest Oval set provided. And Comply tips are included. Many time Comply is too large for other cases. I think the case will fit larger tips than provided. I find I really have to press a bit to make a secure charging connection. There is still a bit of space in the Ear tip space. In fact larger tips could tip the bud forward making for a better charging connection. The magnetic catch that closes the case is a beast and will press down on larger tips easily.
Okay, once again TMI. I could have just said ‘Yeah the case will close on anything. Get the biggest Comply tips out there and have fun”


----------



## defbear

webvan said:


> Probably just passive, they have some LiveIQ Earbuds coming out in Q4 2018 that look promising : https://www.nuheara.com/liveiq/ and probably more adapted for music listening as opposed to acting as a hearing aid and hopefully a bit cheaper as a result !


I had not seen this new Liveiq teaser before. Thank you for the link. In another reply I said (blah blah blah) and concluded with. Just wait for version 2. Yup, corporations are always an easy read and I guess I was correct. (Yay for me) Yes the IQbuds Boost is a different animal. Looks like the same shape housing. I can’t quote where I read it but I understand Nuheara paid dearly to license the hearing test provided. It’s part of the beastly cost of these Boost buds. If that test is provided with the Liveiq buds they may be a monster music choice. I have a set of Bose Soundsport Free buds. They have more Bass and is a warmer ‘fun’ signature. I also have many other earbuds, Sennheiser wireless but tethered and blah, blah, blah many earbuds. I know what wireless sounds like first hand. (Golf clap) The IQbuds Boost are my first choice for music. Yet their NC revolves around letting the outside be heard, and what it sounds like, how much of it do you hear. But when you lock the outside out, then you are just in a passive NC ’mode’. Gee whiz! The new Liveiq solve a ‘Feature Gap’ at a different price point. Surprise!


----------



## defbear

A couple of points. I’m not a walking billboard for the IQbuds Boost. These things ain’t for everybody i’m sure. I have a friend who is an Audiologist. One of the Dr’s  who invented cochlear implants. Worked at the House Ear Clinic in the L.A. area and is now doing research at UCLA. A rock star in the hearing impaired world. Several years ago he told me of an Australian company doing research on devices for Tinnitus and headphones(sic) for music with advanced hearing features. This was Years ago! So the IQbuds Boost were not cooked up by the marketing department but are, ahem, the Real Deal or at least an honest effort  My curiosity made me buy a pair of these. 
I keep reading that these are a Hearing Aid. These are not classified as a Medical Device. They are not a Hearing Aid period. But yes they can be an aid to hearing. Nuheara is marketing them as an aid to hear the TV and Triple Blah marketing in that direction. Even I liked them in a crowded convention hall to dial in conversations. Nice to hear not only the person you are talking to but conversations around you while cancelling out all the background noise in the convention hall ands have Lady Gaga singing away. 
Perhaps they are a pair of Night Vision Goggles for your ears. Hey! My new stage name. Lady Goggles.


----------



## episiarch

defbear said:


> I usually use the size marked L. Large. IQbuds includes 10 sets. I am using the largest Oval set provided. And Comply tips are included. Many time Comply is too large for other cases. I think the case will fit larger tips than provided. I find I really have to press a bit to make a secure charging connection. There is still a bit of space in the Ear tip space. In fact larger tips could tip the bud forward making for a better charging connection. The magnetic catch that closes the case is a beast and will press down on larger tips easily.
> Okay, once again TMI. I could have just said ‘Yeah the case will close on anything. Get the biggest Comply tips out there and have fun”


Thanks very much!

(Actually the largest Comply tips still aren't right for me. There are only a couple out there that are.  I've ordered a set of Nuheara's largest silicone tips to see if they're at least in the ballpark, and Nuheara's fitting page mentions Snugs, so presumably they have a template for the IQBuds (though probably they would have to be removed before charging, but at least it's an option.)


----------



## james444

Itson said:


> Follow-up answer:
> 
> ""For the design of the TrueConnect, we understand that the majority of users will be using streaming services for their music and almost all streaming services are not aptX compatible so we have chosen to use SBC codex, this also allows the device to be more compact and more beneficial to battery performance.



This is a terribly misinformed answer imo. Bluetooth audio transmission does ALWAYS involve re-encoding (to SBC, AAC, aptX, ...), so it really doesn't matter which codec the streaming service uses.


----------



## nc8000

james444 said:


> This is a terribly misinformed answer imo. Bluetooth audio transmission does ALWAYS involve re-encoding (to SBC, AAC, aptX, ...), so it really doesn't matter which codec the streaming service uses.



Except for Apple music that streams in aac so won’t need recoding fot BT devices that support aac


----------



## webvan

Is there a tool to see what your smartphone is actually outputting over BT ?


----------



## AnakChan

webvan said:


> Is there a tool to see what your smartphone is actually outputting over BT ?


What device?

If it's iOS, the device has to be plugged into the iMac/Macbook/etc. and Xcode running to display the device logs to see what codec is used (when music is playing).

If it's Android, it's Settings-System-Developer Options-Bluetooth Audio Codec (on Oreo 8.1b at least), dunno about other Anrdoid implementations.


----------



## webvan

Thanks, Android 7.0 here so I guess I'm OOL until I upgrade


----------



## james444

nc8000 said:


> Except for Apple music that streams in aac so won’t need recoding fot BT devices that support aac



From what I've been gathering, this is not correct. A2DP BT streaming uses packet based transmission, which means ALL audio needs to be decoded to PCM at the source side, then chopped to packets, then encoded per packet (to SBC, AAC, aptX, etc... ), then transmittet and finally decoded (per packet) and joined together at the receiving side.

That's also the reason why your source's equalizer will work over BT and why system sounds (like notifications, etc...) will be transmitted over BT as well. Both of which wouldn't be possible, if the original audio files were transmitted untouched.


----------



## webvan

That does indeed make sense !
Does anyone here own the Jabra Elite Sport ? Fairly happy with mine except that they've developed a "low volume" problem in the right ear...that's not permanent so it's a bit hard to troubleshoot and Jabra are making me jump through hoops with all kind of useless "reset" procedures...Has anyone been through that before ? Thanks !


----------



## nc8000

james444 said:


> From what I've been gathering, this is not correct. A2DP BT streaming uses packet based transmission, which means ALL audio needs to be decoded to PCM at the source side, then chopped to packets, then encoded per packet (to SBC, AAC, aptX, etc... ), then transmittet and finally decoded (per packet) and joined together at the receiving side.
> 
> That's also the reason why your source's equalizer will work over BT and why system sounds (like notifications, etc...) will be transmitted over BT as well. Both of which wouldn't be possible, if the original audio files were transmitted untouched.



Hmmm, never thaught of it that way but I guess that might actually be correct and make sense


----------



## nbacha (Oct 8, 2018)

clerkpalmer said:


> Update in the master and dynamic mw07. These are sweet sounding earphones. Unfortunately the left bud suffers from hiss. Only in the left bud. According to support this is normal but it can be heard in soft music passages which is too bad. Mine are going back for this. At 300 I don't want hiss. My sonys don't do this.


That's weird, I've had mine since Last Wednesday and i don't get any hiss from the left, using it with an XS Max


----------



## clerkpalmer

nbacha said:


> That's weird, I've had mine since Last Wednesday and i don't get any hiss from the left, using it with an XS Max



Interesting.  Definitely hiss.  I am also using an XS Max.  How do you like them?


----------



## clerkpalmer

clerkpalmer said:


> I'm hoping they haven't listed it yet. That would be a massive mistake by RHA. I'll be cancelling my preorder. I agree with spamateur that no AAC is a deal breaker.
> 
> Edit: RHA if youre watching this thread (and I know you are) please confirm AAC.


RHA confirmed over pm no AAC or aptx. Said they are focusing on stability and battery. I didn't know they were mutually exclusive. Minor bummer.


----------



## Tommy C

webvan said:


> That does indeed make sense !
> Does anyone here own the Jabra Elite Sport ? Fairly happy with mine except that they've developed a "low volume" problem in the right ear...that's not permanent so it's a bit hard to troubleshoot and Jabra are making me jump through hoops with all kind of useless "reset" procedures...Has anyone been through that before ? Thanks !



I own the Jabra Elite Sport as use them as my daily driver on the go with no issues thus far. 
I did notice like any other previous iOS updates that I’m getting some cutoffs when walking in a busy area after I updated my phone to iOS 12. 
Based on my experience next firmware update by Jabra should fix it.


----------



## webvan

Yeah mine must have developed some defect, it just loses volume in the right gradually (but not always oddly enough) after I turn it on, found quite a few similar comments on Amazon. Hopefully Jabra will come through.


----------



## yukiorui

Does anyone know if there are any plans for the MW07 to be made available for demo outside of the US? I'm holding off my order because I want to audition it first.


----------



## nbacha

clerkpalmer said:


> Interesting.  Definitely hiss.  I am also using an XS Max.  How do you like them?


So far I like them but at higher volumes it can get a tad harsh for me with certain songs but otherwise better than others I've tried 
One thing that stands out is these are the only pair I've ever tried where i have not had a single connection hitch.
No skips or stutter it has been flawless, could be to do with moving to the XS Max though.
I found the B&O to be harsh for me too until i stuck the foam tips on so might try find some that fit


----------



## Rickyearl

nbacha said:


> So far I like them but at higher volumes it can get a tad harsh for me with certain songs but otherwise better than others I've tried
> One thing that stands out is these are the only pair I've ever tried where i have not had a single connection hitch.
> No skips or stutter it has been flawless, could be to do with moving to the XS Max though.
> I found the B&O to be harsh for me too until i stuck the foam tips on so might try find some that fit



Interesting.  I found the B&O E8 to sound a little thin, but some of that is likely because it will not get loud enough.  I asked a few people to try them and all were amazed that their max volume is just about normal listening level for a quiet area.  I have tried them with two iphones, a pixel, and even the Nintendo Switch.  Same result.


----------



## howdy

Rickyearl said:


> Interesting.  I found the B&O E8 to sound a little thin, but some of that is likely because it will not get loud enough.  I asked a few people to try them and all were amazed that their max volume is just about normal listening level for a quiet area.  I have tried them with two iphones, a pixel, and even the Nintendo Switch.  Same result.


My E8 sound great with the right tips, the bass hits surprisingly good. As for volume I can't even listen to these all the way up. Are you sure you have the volume on the phone up and on the E8s?


----------



## nc8000

Rickyearl said:


> Interesting.  I found the B&O E8 to sound a little thin, but some of that is likely because it will not get loud enough.  I asked a few people to try them and all were amazed that their max volume is just about normal listening level for a quiet area.  I have tried them with two iphones, a pixel, and even the Nintendo Switch.  Same result.



I’m at about 50-60% on my volume on my iPhone when out and about in trains and busses and would kill my ears if I went any louder


----------



## Rickyearl

nc8000 said:


> I’m at about 50-60% on my volume on my iPhone when out and about in trains and busses and would kill my ears if I went any louder



Weird. I sent my pair back to B&O and they said they were supposed to sound this way.  I literally could not turn them up loud enough to hear them really well if I was sitting over the wing/engine on an airplane. No way they could ever hurt my ears.


----------



## nc8000

Rickyearl said:


> Weird. I sent my pair back to B&O and they said they were supposed to sound this way.  I literally could not turn them up loud enough to hear them really well if I was sitting over the wing/engine on an airplane. No way they could ever hurt my ears.



Well I don't think anything other than active noise cancelling can deal with airplane engines though I don't have any problem using mine on the plane but I do have to turn them futher up than normally


----------



## webvan

Not convinced that ANC is really better than IEMs with good passive isolation (like the Klipsch S4 with double flange tips)...done many comparisons and both have their pros and cons. I suppose ANC works better if you're not going to be listening to music or if you can't stand IEMs !

To get to the bottom of this we'd need IEMs with ANC that have good passive isolation, the fact that they don't seem to exist seems to confirm my theory


----------



## Rickyearl

nc8000 said:


> Well I don't think anything other than active noise cancelling can deal with airplane engines though I don't have any problem using mine on the plane but I do have to turn them futher up than normally



On mine at full volume you cannot hear a podcast or audiobook (for example) on a plane unless you are far from the wing.  You can tell someone's speaking but you can't hear them.  It's just a bit louder than normal conversation level when it's turned up all the way.


In contrast, the cheapie $50 Soundcore Liberty Lites would hurt my ears at full volume.  Hurt them bad.


----------



## howdy

Rickyearl said:


> On mine at full volume you cannot hear a podcast or audiobook (for example) on a plane unless you are far from the wing.  You can tell someone's speaking but you can't hear them.  It's just a bit louder than normal conversation level when it's turned up all the way.
> 
> 
> In contrast, the cheapie $50 Soundcore Liberty Lites would hurt my ears at full volume.  Hurt them bad.


Im sure you have but do you have the volume up all the way on your phone and than hold your finger on the right one tell the volume is all the way up on the E8 as well?


----------



## Rickyearl

howdy said:


> Im sure you have but do you have the volume up all the way on your phone and than hold your finger on the right one tell the volume is all the way up on the E8 as well?


Yes.  I tried everything.  I reinstalled the app, turned it up on the app, pressed the R one, turned up the volume on the iphone.  Even tried other phones and devices.


----------



## howdy

Rickyearl said:


> Yes.  I tried everything.  I reinstalled the app, turned it up on the app, pressed the R one, turned up the volume on the iphone.  Even tried other phones and devices.


Well, that sucks. It seems asbif you got a bad pair of E8s .Are you still within the return period?


----------



## Rickyearl

howdy said:


> Well, that sucks. It seems asbif you got a bad pair of E8s .Are you still within the return period?


Not anymore.  I sent them back to B&O with this specific complaint and they said they were working fine and as intended.


----------



## nc8000 (Oct 10, 2018)

Rickyearl said:


> Not anymore.  I sent them back to B&O with this specific complaint and they said they were working fine and as intended.



Have just flown home from Luxembourg sitting in a window seat right next to the engine listening to an audio book. This is 2-3 clicks louder than I would use in trains and busses


----------



## Rickyearl

I'd love to send them to someone who also has a pair so they could compare.


----------



## howdy

Rickyearl said:


> I'd love to send them to someone who also has a pair so they could compare.


I'm in Minnesota


----------



## rawrster

Has there been any wireless earphones that isolate that support LDAC that isn't from Sony? I've been looking at this lately and can't really find much out there.


----------



## jant71 (Oct 10, 2018)

rawrster said:


> Has there been any wireless earphones that isolate that support LDAC that isn't from Sony? I've been looking at this lately and can't really find much out there.



You mean totally wireless?? Cause there are a few BT cables that do LDAC and you can plug your choice of earphones into. Fact is that Sony's total wireless earphones do not even do LDAC just AAC and SBC.

BT amps are another route. Small clip on plus a short cable like the FiiO LC-3.5As. FiiOs BTR3 has every codec except HWA so it does LDAC and sounds quite good according to the reports. BT amps have the advantage of more buttons to be easier to control and they usually have better DACs in them and some even have balanced out. Of course higher battery life as well so they are a pretty popular choice for those who don't feel the need for totally wireless.


----------



## rawrster

Yes fully wireless would be nice however I'm probably asking this a year or two too early. Those neck cradles would be acceptable as well however nothing out there either. If Sony doesn't have it then I'm probably out of luck. 

I'm in the market for one of those cables however hoping for a cheaper solution. The cable costs almost as much as my earphone. I'll probably end up purchasing the cable off eBay if I can't find anything else.


----------



## jant71 (Oct 10, 2018)

You can actually purchase a cheap solution if you are handy or will spend a few $$ to have connectors attached. You can buy an EX750BT for $40 or less and you have LDAC and aptx and voice prompts. Seems the same thing as Sony sells down to the same specs all the way. They just put MMCX on it and bang $200+ for it. Compare...

https://www.sony-asia.com/electronics/featured-headphones/muc-m2bt1
https://www.sony.com/electronics/in-ear-headphones/mdr-ex750bt

I bought the refurbs for $39.99.

Perhaps, since FiiO is doing LDAC perhaps they are gonna do a cable that will do it like their BT amp does. Can't hurt to ask them.


----------



## david8613 (Oct 10, 2018)

Any news on a newer version of the samsung 2018 iconx, we are due I hope samsung is cooking up something awesome. Keep all the touch control, on board memory, add longer battery life with ldac and aptx maybe some balanced drivers that would be awesome.


----------



## nbacha (Oct 11, 2018)

Rickyearl said:


> Interesting.  I found the B&O E8 to sound a little thin, but some of that is likely because it will not get loud enough.  I asked a few people to try them and all were amazed that their max volume is just about normal listening level for a quiet area.  I have tried them with two iphones, a pixel, and even the Nintendo Switch.  Same result.



Was wondering if you've had the 65t to compare to the mw07?
Is the extra money worth it in terms of SQ alone?

Have a 100 pound gift card coming to me so i using it I can get the 65t for 70 instead of the 250 i paid for the mw07


----------



## Rickyearl

howdy said:


> I'm in Minnesota



That's a ways from me.  But I think I solved the problem.

I got frustrated so I went to the local Best Buy and picked up another pair.  The new pair is MUCH louder - it's funny, it has a totally different sound signature.  Much more warm and "friendly," with a bit of a bass boost.  Not sure I like it.  The older pair are more precise and clinical - sort of like my ER-4P if I were forced to compare (but not as much so by any means).  That's what I tend to prefer.   

Talked to the Best Buy store manager and let him try the two.  He said it was a clear difference and that the older ones are defective.  He was really cool about it and is going to try to RMA the old pair.  

He also said the return rate on the E8s is very high compared to the other true wireless, but he says that's at least partially due to the cost.  More expensive things attract more demanding customers and they tend to be more critical.


----------



## Rickyearl

nbacha said:


> Was wondering if you've had the 65t to compare to the mw07?
> Is the extra money worth it in terms of SQ alone?
> 
> Have a 100 pound gift card coming to me so i using it I can get the 65t for 70 instead of the 250 i paid for the mw07



I had the 65t.  They sounded OK.  Not fantastic - about like the Airpods with better isolation.  About even with a good $50-$75 pair of wired IEMs, maybe a bit better.  My problem was getting a comfortable fit (just one of those weird ear things) and the sound lag.  It's impossible to use them to watch videos or play games if you do that at all.  The only ones I've tried with lag worse than the 65t were the Bose and my current "disposable," the Soundcore Liberty Lites.  The E8s have almost no lag - either pair I tried (see above).  

I haven't tried the MW07s yet but I would like to very much.  I have a pair of M&D MH40 wired headphones that I like even though they're a little warm for my typical tastes.  May be that they just look so cool.


----------



## nc8000

Rickyearl said:


> That's a ways from me.  But I think I solved the problem.
> 
> I got frustrated so I went to the local Best Buy and picked up another pair.  The new pair is MUCH louder - it's funny, it has a totally different sound signature.  Much more warm and "friendly," with a bit of a bass boost.  Not sure I like it.  The older pair are more precise and clinical - sort of like my ER-4P if I were forced to compare (but not as much so by any means).  That's what I tend to prefer.
> 
> ...



Interresting. My pair is one the first pairs that came out delivered to me in Denmark on the day they were released and I certainly would not describe them as even remotely Ety like


----------



## Rickyearl

nc8000 said:


> Interresting. My pair is one the first pairs that came out delivered to me in Denmark on the day they were released and I certainly would not describe them as even remotely Ety like


I just think the older pair is defective all around.  It makes me mad that B&O said they were fine.  I should have insisted they just give me my money back.


----------



## PopZeus

I've only seen full-size headphone support for LDAC. Could be a power draw issue for true wireless IEMs. No chip yet that can decode LDAC is efficient enough for the batteries at that size.


----------



## Jaysound (Oct 11, 2018)

*BLUETOOTH MUSIC NIRVANA!!!*

Wow, 83 pages and counting. Now there's a popular subject. So glad I thought to post my experience. Looks like a lot of people might benefit. I was going to create a thread for this but I guess I'll just post it here. (Unless the mods say I can post this as its own thread also, as I'd really like to do. _Can I? Can I? Please?_)

I have found my BT music nirvana! Here's what I do:

I use RBH H2 headphones. They can be had in the U.S. on Amazon. Company site has details. I discovered them after a lot of research -- it was actually the Head-Fi forum that first made me aware of them (or, well, of the prior model, which wasn't so great) -- and after trying a few various products.

They support LDAC! (And aptx-HD.)

To get LDAC, I bought a Samsung Galaxy S9, and learned how to go into Developer Options (do a Google search on how to enable that), and I set it to LDAC (three screens down in Oreo, under Bluetooth Audio Codec).

I use Tidal for hi-def music -- I prefer "downloading" my music files and working in "Offline" mode so I know I'm playing the high-quality files I'm after. My research suggests this is usually going to be CD-quality. (I may be wrong about needing to be downloaded and offline. They "may" stream it, too.)

In Developer Options, I set the specs to match what I believe those source files are (should be the same with Spotify hi-def and, in fact, it was a reply I got on the Spotify forum that made me aware of using these settings, and they suggested NOT to go higher so as to "match" the audio files -- and my experimenting seems to confirm that logic): 44.1, 16-bit, and I set it to Optimized for Audio Quality. (That's assuming, of course, that  you aren't into the "master" level of audio files that might also be available.)

I have to reset those in Developer Options every time I restart the phone or sometimes even after I close and restart Tidal or even maybe just put the phone to sleep and wake it. So be it. I just keep the Settings screen open in the background. No big deal and totally worth it.

For tips I use Comply Isolation tips (with wax guard but that's just my choice). I've tried others and nothing comes close for my preferences.

I used to use Shure wired SE530 IEMs and I have to say I prefer the sound I get from these BT headphones with those other components and settings implemented! (I also personally *love* the fact that I'm wireless, since I mainly listen to my music while practicing tai chi and related arts. Not to mention that with these headphones I can start/stop, skip, and change volume on the cable that's between the two IEMs without grabbing the phone. Can't do that with an Android phone with wired IEMs as far as I know. And on a minor note, the cable is partly broken inside on my SE530s by now.)

*BLUETOOTH MUSIC NIRVANA!!!*


----------



## Firevortex (Oct 11, 2018)

nbacha said:


> Was wondering if you've had the 65t to compare to the mw07?
> Is the extra money worth it in terms of SQ alone?
> 
> Have a 100 pound gift card coming to me so i using it I can get the 65t for 70 instead of the 250 i paid for the mw07



i was choosing between the two as well. i settled with 65t due to battery life, connection consistency and call performance. upon my research, the E8 gets a lot of mixed reviews (could be bad batch in production). E8 has slightly better SQ with a warmer sound and deeper clearer bass. while 65t sounds more neutral.


----------



## speakerz2017

On and on it goes "the next bluetooth generation will be revolutionary" or something like that, and every time I get disappointed by its connectivity. Biggest pet peeve for me would be the advertised range and the actual range you get with, and the damn pairing process that can be a hit or miss sometimes.


----------



## sly_in_the_sky (Oct 12, 2018)

If I can give my opinion on the Jabra Elite 65T, I read that the sound was ok but in my opinion, they sound not only ok, they sound really good. Nice tonality balance, nice soundstage and a natural sound with no big weakness.

I also have the BO that have also a little nicer SQ and soundstage, perhaps a little better BUT, a weakness that I really dislike, they can sound bright, almost sibillant to my ears... and cause me fatigue.

So to my ears, even if technically, the BO are a little bit better, their brightness is disadvantageous... in the balance if we also take into account the price, the excellent connectivity and functionnality of the 65t, overall,  these are to me better than the Bo.


----------



## Tential

rawrster said:


> Yes fully wireless would be nice however I'm probably asking this a year or two too early. Those neck cradles would be acceptable as well however nothing out there either. If Sony doesn't have it then I'm probably out of luck.
> 
> I'm in the market for one of those cables however hoping for a cheaper solution. The cable costs almost as much as my earphone. I'll probably end up purchasing the cable off eBay if I can't find anything else.


 
There's an elecom cable that does bluetooth 5.0 and ldac.
LBT-HPC1000RC
It's expensive though I've only seen it and ~$300. My headphones only support sbc(anker says aac won't work on these with anything but iPhone....) so that seems to be the best option for ldac with any headphone so far.


----------



## sly_in_the_sky

Sorry but I see many posts on that thread that to me, don’t concern True Wireless technology...


----------



## Peddler (Oct 13, 2018)

I recently purchased the KZ (improved version) bluetooth cable which terminates in MMCX plugs and have paired them to the rather excellent Magaosi K3 Pro IEM's and the combination is surprisingly excellent.  The cable supports APtX and I haven't experienced any issues with dropouts, range or battery life.  All this for only 11 quid.  Excellent value for money.  The combined total still comes to less than the Airpods or Jabra solutions and definitely sounds better.

Sidenote - I still love the Airpods though.  Just thought I would mention it.


----------



## webvan

sly_in_the_sky said:


> Sorry but I see many posts on that thread that to me, don’t concern True Wireless technology...



You are correct ! Please let's keep this thread for TRUE WIRELESS IEMs (i.e. ZERO cables), thanks !

Talking fo which I sent my Jabra Elite Sport back for repair as the right earbud loses volume/power gradually after I start using it so I picked up an el cheapo pair, the Vigorun, for a mere 38€ and much to my surprise they are quite decent. Fit is good, the fin keeps them in place nicely, the isolation is very good with the standard silicon tips (haven't tried SpinFit or Foams yet) and the sound is very pleasant out of the box, nice rich bass and a good range. So of course there's no transparency mode and the battery life is only rated at 2.5 hours vs 4.5 on the JES but I can live with that. On Amazon US the closest model seems to be the Dveda and they actually seem more advanced.


----------



## sly_in_the_sky (Oct 13, 2018)

People continue posting bluetooth cable... Is it yes or not a true wireless thread? I also could speak about wired bluetooth cable that I also own... but it wouldn’t be the subject of the thread...

Can a moderator do something?

It’s not a general bluetooth thread...


----------



## ri_toast

sly, point noted, close enough for me to be topic related (speaking for myself only) actually looking for bt dongle to attach my se535s elsewhere, like you've said, not this thread. still, thanks to peddler for pointing it out.
hopefully bt cables get a separate post and we won't discuss the micro wires inside the true wireless that attach the transducers inside the shells <joking>


----------



## jrm27 (Oct 13, 2018)

This thread has been immensely informative. Thanks for all the great info, everyone. I think I've narrowed down my options to:
Jabra Elite 65t
Samsung Gear Icon X 2018 (i realize that with an iOS device I'll lose functionality, but I'm not worried about the fitness tracking)
Bragi Dash

For anything cheaper and more unknown the Dveda option listed a few posts up looks interesting. I'm assuming Bluetooth 5.0 (in the Jabra) will be best for video/audio sync. However, since I'm on an iPhone 7 (Bluetooth 4.2), it seems that I'm just kinda doomed to the sync issue no matter what the wireless solution. I'm also ideally looking for something small and discrete that doesn't stick out of my ears too far. Lots of great options, but I'm looking to stay below $175 for now. Does anyone have any thoughts on those choices?


----------



## webvan

I've been using the Vigorun a bit (the Dveda would likely be similar) and while it's smaller, lighter, isolates better than the Jabra Elite Sport (even with the foam tips) provides a decent listening experience and even has a magnetic charging box (unlike the Jabra) there are some problems...For a start the call quality is very bad to the point where people can't hear me! Also I'm not exactly sure how long it would resist sweat when running...At the end of the day it would probably be fine to listen to music while commuting in a train or flying but probably not a lot else. The Jabra Elite 65T can do that and everything else.


----------



## jrm27

webvan said:


> I've been using the Vigorun a bit (the Dveda would likely be similar) and while it's smaller, lighter, isolates better than the Jabra Elite Sport (even with the foam tips) provides a decent listening experience and even has a magnetic charging box (unlike the Jabra) there are some problems...For a start the call quality is very bad to the point where people can't hear me! Also I'm not exactly sure how long it would resist sweat when running...At the end of the day it would probably be fine to listen to music while commuting in a train or flying but probably not a lot else. The Jabra Elite 65T can do that and everything else.



Thanks for that info. Call quality is quite important in my concerns.


----------



## defbear

I saw this article:
https://www.menshealth.com/technology-gear/gmp23740577/best-wireless-headphones/
Sorry I didn’t shrinky-dink the URL. There are a lot of true wireless IEM’s plus a bunch of feldercarb brands I’ve never heard of. Amusing article.


----------



## webvan

Yeah I suspect the Tozo, Enacfire, Sugar Skull and Crislan are all variations around the Dveda/Vigorun theme


----------



## SomeGuyDude

If it ain't true wireless it should be deleted. If there's a cable connecting the things, it's off topic. Clean this up.


----------



## srinivasvignesh

Please keep this to true wireless conversations only.


----------



## willryan042 (Oct 14, 2018)

Man oh man, I came here looking for advice on finding a new pair since I'm sick of my Jlab Epic Airs, and it seems like there's a ton of new products getting released that seem really promising.

As of now I've narrowed it down to 5 choices, although everything but the E8's is either recently released or not even released yet. I think these are in order of how much I'm liking each but time will tell once more people get their hands on them. Thoughts?



*Audio Technica ATH-CKR7TW*
Better battery life (6hr) than the previous two choices. 11mm drivers. Major HiFi had some really great things to say about these. BT 5.0

*Master & Dynamic MW07*
Most reviews are pretty positive (aside from The Verge). SQ sounds good. No video lag from what I gathered. Only BT 4.2 but I'm honestly not sure how big of a difference that'd realistically be from 5.0

*Sennheiser Momentum*
Look great on paper, minor SQ criticisms from the Sound Guys review I read. BT 5.0

*B&O E8*
The oldest option in this list. I've seen conflicting things on SQ and connectivity. People say connectivity has improved after some firmware updates, but I'm not sure. BT 4.2

*Jabra Elite Active 65t*
The cheapest option. Again, conflicting reviews on SQ. Some say they're great, some say they suck. BT 5.0


I was also interested in the EOZ Air and RHA TrueConnect for a minute. But I'm not finding much info on the EOZ Air, and Kickstarter's typically make me suspicious. Comments in here seemed to quickly bash the RHA for using SBC.


----------



## Firevortex

willryan042 said:


> *Jabra Elite Active 65t*
> The cheapest option. Again, conflicting reviews on SQ. Some say they're great, some say they suck. BT 5.0



not sure where you see the bad SQ reviews on those? everything out there says they sound good (not the best). there is 1 guy here who couldn't get them to fit properly says they sound like Airpods (well, no crap) . most conflicting reviews are on E8. personally, i would be interested in trying out the MW07.


----------



## bronco1015

I'll throw my name in the hat for the Jabra Elite 65T. I was really doubtful that the sound+ app would make a meaningful difference in SQ, but I was pleasantly surprised. I think Jabra did a great job at designing the earbuds and app as well. i'd honestly prefer not to install the app, but I did because I wasn't a fan of the default signature. Call quality has also been steller. Occasionally I ride a very loud commuter shuttle with side panels that rattle etc. With most BT iems or headphones people mention it if I happen to get a call. But no one has ever mentioned it with the jabras. even putting a sweater on the other day I asked someone if they heard any noise because i'd just put one on and they heard a slight swoosh but nothing to interrupt the conversation. The only other True Wireless iem I've used personally is the psb m4u tw1. These are really comfortable and I never worry about losing one. Same for the 65 T's. The TW1s have a pretty great sound imo, but I do wish the mids were turned down a little, and  the sub bass is a bit sloppy, but not enough that i want to return them. they charge via micro usb, and don't have a case. The pairing process is not straight forward, which i found out thanks to people posting about it. but following the steps from the online manual, i paired them successfully the first time. long post but hope it was helpful.


----------



## willryan042

Firevortex said:


> not sure where you see the bad SQ reviews on those? everything out there says they sound good (not the best). there is 1 guy here who couldn't get them to fit properly says they sound like Airpods (well, no crap) . most conflicting reviews are on E8. personally, i would be interested in trying out the MW07.



No you're right, I should've said that it sounded like SQ was as you said, just "good." Which is fair since I'm comparing them to others that are almost twice the price.


----------



## mikp

Think ive seen 3-4 crowdfunds that claim to use the QCC3026, but not found anyone on ali,jd or taobao yet. Looks like its a long wait for the new qualcomm chips to be used.


----------



## ri_toast

What makes the Jabra line good besides sound quality are *one*: connection stability, even with bt4.1 it's solid. *two*: button function, really useful and intuitive.
one detractor, easily fixed is when you turn them on is a connection only to the right monitor. the fix is insert the left monitor first - then take the right from the base unit and insert it. not a big deal. if you do get the right side only just insert them back into the case and start over. Basically off/on.
there's very little use for the app once the unit is setup. On my version of android I got the app and also had to add the service app. Meaning the service starts when the headphones turn on, the app is solid and configuration is easy.

Sound quality is NOT wired iem levels but forget the hardware and enjoying the music. quality isn't off the table, so to speak.


----------



## webvan

Haven't tried the 65T but the Jabra Elite Sport do indeed have great sound quality, especially with the foam tips. I honestly have a hard time telling them apart from my quad driver IEMs...They are fragile though and are known to lose volume in the right ear (the left ear too but less frequently) for no good reason. Sweat might be an issue of course but then they are designed for sport. The other problem is that they are very "thumping" (air compressed in the ear canal) with the foam tips when running, it's quite distracting. I wonder if the 65T are any better in that respect. Has anyone here done direct comparisons between the Jabra Elite Sport and the 65T models ?


----------



## david8613

webvan said:


> Haven't tried the 65T but the Jabra Elite Sport do indeed have great sound quality, especially with the foam tips. I honestly have a hard time telling them apart from my quad driver IEMs...They are fragile though and are known to lose volume in the right ear (the left ear too but less frequently) for no good reason. Sweat might be an issue of course but then they are designed for sport. The other problem is that they are very "thumping" (air compressed in the ear canal) with the foam tips when running, it's quite distracting. I wonder if the 65T are any better in that respect. Has anyone here done direct comparisons between the Jabra Elite Sport and the 65T models ?




I have and use both on a daily basis, the 65t elite active fit is nice and light, sound is great, connection is great, battery is great, controls are good especially having volume. Things I dont like, case does not lock so if you drop it buds go flying in different directions this happened twice already luckily I was indoors when this happened. Material and shape of case is very slippery, it is nice and small though, coaching feature is a joke compared to elite sport. Jabra elite sport sound is nice too, although I think the bass slams harder than the 65t elite active, but the active goes a little deeper in bass I feel. The elite sport is bulkier and heavier in ear. it's not bad, but they really lock in your ears better with the fins than 65t.  Elite sport is a heavy duty truewireless. Elite sport Controls work well, but buttons are small you kind have to use your fingernail to activate buttons. the 65t you can use finger tip to press. Case is nicer on the elite sport, its lid spring loaded, if I drop it buds are not coming out. It also has heart rate monitor, and much better coach and app for gym use. Connection is solid. I like both that's why I have both. I sold my Samsung iconx 2018, I really loved all the features they had, especially the touch controls, the connection was great, sound quality was very good, but a step down from the above units. It was clear but sterile, flat, not warm, bass was weaker, I am waiting to see what samsung comes out with for 2019.


----------



## webvan

Thanks for the feedback and comparison very interesting ! Unfortunately I can't get the HR monitor of the JES to work properly when I'm running, it has the dreaded cadence lock problem (it quickly uses my foot cadence as my HR) which is too bad since the app indeed has a lot to offer, even more than the super expensive Garmin watches. Do you run with them, if yes do you experience the "thump" when using the foam tips ? The silicone tips just don't provide a good enough seal for me and the bass is badly lacking...but there is no "thump". Since you say the JES lock better, does it mean you find yourself adjusting your 65T more (the active is probably better than the non-active with it's rubbery finish) ?


----------



## david8613 (Oct 14, 2018)

I dont like foam tips very much, your right they do cause the "thump" but I also think foams change the sound too much, plus they get nasty, and get destroyed too fast. I Iike using silicone tips. For jabra elite sport I put some spare tips that I had laying around nothing really special and they worked great. I had both jabra 65t elite normal version and active version. The active coating is slightly different from the normal 65t but not that much, they both are still slippery in hand, in ear they are both fine, the 65t active can get slightly lose with extreme sweat, but for the most part they stay in ear just fine, I use stock large tips on the jabra elite active. jabra elite sport will not get loose they really lock in your ears. Heart rate is not perfectly accurate but close enough, I do use them both for running on treadmill and weight training. Cant go wrong with either.


----------



## webvan

Thanks, must say I'm tempted to give the 65t a try to see if I can get the good ctisp  sound of the JES+Foam (the stock foam tips with their coating seem stronger than Comply tips) without the "thump" and possibly better noise isolation.

Is there any reason for you to pick one over the other on a given day?


----------



## david8613 (Oct 15, 2018)

the 2 things thing the Jabra 65t elite active has over the Jabra sport is battery life and comfort, active can go more than 5 hours and is more comfortable your forget you have them on, sport is around 4 and slightly bulkier in ear, you always know they are in your ears. everything else its a give and take between the 2. I would go with the 65t elite active since it is newer and fits more of the normal user, but if your an extreme athlete, or gym rat the sport elite being more heavy duty, more water proof more app features for gym would be better.


----------



## webvan

Makes sense, thanks, I find the JES reasonable comfortable so the only reason I'd want to "upgrade" is if there is no "thud" when running with the 65T while maintaining a good seal. With the JES it's either the stock foam for a good seal/sound+thud or poor seal/sound and no thud. Based on reviews it does seem you still get a bit of a "thud" with the 65T but it must depend on people. I did try a bunch of alternative silicone tips with the JES, like the SpinFit CP100 in various sizeq but they don't really help with the seal/sound unfortunately and they're also a bit "long" to fit well in the case.


----------



## nbacha

MW07 has gone back, just found it tiring to listen to at anything besides low volumes which doesn't cut it walking around the street.
Hoping the 65Ts will give me some good balance


----------



## srinivasvignesh

What would be a good choice if the primary use case would to listen to podcasts, good battery life, acceptable, if not zero video lag (for the occasional video)? Multiple backup charges from the case would be good to have. Sound quality does not need to be great, since podcasts and audiobooks would be the use case 80 percent of the time. The other 20% netflix, and I do not want voice lag (sound does not need to be great). An occasional drop out would be tolerable as well. 

What fits the bill?


----------



## david8613

any true wireless that support ldac yet?


----------



## joshnor713

david8613 said:


> any true wireless that support ldac yet?



Don't think so, just know of a couple that support aptX.

Am expecting that v2 of the WF-1000X would bring it, but no word yet.


----------



## nbacha

I'm tempted to wait for the sennheisers and the ATH-CKR7TW
Sol Republic Amp Airs are going for 50 on their own UK site......anyone think it's worth it to hold me until these new ones come out or are they complete garbage?


----------



## howdy

nbacha said:


> I'm tempted to wait for the sennheisers and the ATH-CKR7TW
> Sol Republic Amp Airs are going for 50 on their own UK site......anyone think it's worth it to hold me until these new ones come out or are they complete garbage?


Sennheiser is coming next month, can't wait to pick up a pair.


----------



## mikp

hm,
indiegogo strikes again.

Soundflux 
taobao


----------



## MIBUK

I would stay away from crowd funding for TWS. Especially now that the tech is maturing. In my experience, they take too long, don’t deliver or deliver an inferior product or out of date as they’ve taken so long. Save your money for models on the market or wait. It will save you a lot of pain and frustration


----------



## mikp

MIBUK said:


> I would stay away from crowd funding for TWS. Especially now that the tech is maturing. In my experience, they take too long, don’t deliver or deliver an inferior product or out of date as they’ve taken so long. Save your money for models on the market or wait. It will save you a lot of pain and frustration



agree, that is why im checking the chinese sites for the new qualcomm tws, but none yet.


----------



## Peddler

Point taken regarding the fact that a cable is a cable - and I totally agree.

I currently have a couple of pairs of true wireless headphones and I rate them both very highly - the Apple Airpods and the SoundPEATS Q32's. Both sound very good in my opinion but both also have their compromises - namely limited battery life, occasional dropouts (although in all fairness they're both rather excellent for not suffering with this too much) and, perhaps most importantly, the lack of advanced codec support/sound quality.

The Airpods have a wonderful open sound which is extremely impressive given their size but in truth, you wouldn't have to spend very much at all to better them with a set of wired IEM's.  Apple basically cut off the sub-bass completely but offer a rather nice upper bass to compensate for it. I can't help thinking that one of the biggest issues when it comes to audiophile sound quality and TWS type headphones is that the electronics are basically replicated twice - two amplifiers, two circuit boards, two batteries, etc.  When you think about how Etymotic take the care to match left and right earphones - I can't imaging the companies producing these headphones ever going to that much trouble - their assumption would be that sound quality would take a back seat to other features such as battery life, range and features.

I truly believe that TWS type IEM's are going to be pretty much the future of portable listening but I also truly believe that they will never beat wired when it comes to sound quality.  The bluetooth cable represents an excellent 'halfway house' and the only way you can use your favourite IEM's (that feature detachable cable) in wireless mode with truly acceptable sound quality, battery life and range.

However - there's something definitely cool about have iem's with no wires at all.  I love my Airpods and rave about them to anyone who's interested (and many who are not!).


----------



## WaveRider69

willryan042 said:


> *Audio Technica ATH-CKR7TW*
> Better battery life (6hr) than the previous two choices. 11mm drivers. Major HiFi had some really great things to say about these. BT 5.0



Thanks for the recommendation bro, I want these after seeing them  anyone know where to buy them or when they go on sale?


----------



## Firevortex

mikp said:


> hm,
> indiegogo strikes again.
> 
> Soundflux
> taobao



damn for $40USD i might just buy 1 and compare it with my jabra 65t.


----------



## Hoplite

Anyone tried the new Tribit X1 yet? https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B...&pf_rd_r=YCHZW8WA605NFDGGWFQE#customerReviews

Their bluetooth speaker is bang for the bucks. Curious how do the wireless earbuds fare


----------



## Firevortex (Oct 16, 2018)

OK just want to add my 2c on the Jabra elite 65ts. i got them last week. been using it mainly for calls and only had time today to really sit down and do a critical listen/compare.
unfortunately, SQ is worse than my $28 soundPeats Bluetooth earbuds I've been using and hoping to replace. I've tried all the tips that came with the Jabra elite 65t and had a perfect seal from the largest silicon tip.
been an audiophile for so long its really easy to tell SQ apart, since the lower SQ headphone would always sound like its underwater when you do an A+B listening session. so clarity wise there is nothing you can do to make it better.

To my ear out of the box 65ts has a sloped sound signature with severely lacking bass and bright highs. now i haven't had experience with other TWE before and have limited experience with IEMs my previous pair was an ER4P and Bose QC20. The SQ coming out
of the 65ts is about as good or slightly better than the QC20 and that's not encouraging. after tweaking it with the EQ on the Jabra app and the 12band EQ on my poweramp app i was able to change the signature and made it somewhat bearable. without EQ 65t just isn't good enough
for me to keep and I need it to connect to my computer sometimes which would be a pain to change EQ every time. i'm not sure if its due to AptX codec of the soundPeats or the extra large drivers but the SQ difference is like ER4P vs QC20 or my K1000 vs harman kardon. Guess i'll wait for the Sennheiser.

TWE SQ just isn't there yet atm. i'm still coming to terms of how a $28 BT earbuds are able to beat out a $200 TWE earbuds (even though I know they probably cost $15 to make from the Shenzhen factories). i really tried to like the 65ts but SQ is a big let down.

Lastly, the connection, call quality is very solid with 65t and there is no lag what so ever when streaming youtube or watching a video.


----------



## Silvermane

Damn Firevortex... that's very disheartening to read... 
I have just taken the plunge on the 65t and should receive them later this week.
Ordered them through the Jabra site so hoping they honor their 30day return policy in case I don't like the SQ


----------



## Firevortex

Silvermane said:


> Damn Firevortex... that's very disheartening to read...
> I have just taken the plunge on the 65t and should receive them later this week.
> Ordered them through the Jabra site so hoping they honor their 30day return policy in case I don't like the SQ



well, Jabra elite 65t is considered "good" SQ wise in the TWE department that's saying a lot about the market atm. If you really need a TWE i guess it isn't a bad choice?


Correct me if I'm wrong but i used all Flac files to do the critical listening so it probably made more of a difference with AptX codec?


----------



## sly_in_the_sky (Oct 16, 2018)

I had plenty of high-end Iems and personnally, I find the 65T to have a respectable SQ. I find them to be well balanced with a nice soundstage. I just use the equalizer a little bit to adapt the sound to my personnal tastes (mainly to low down the higher medium/lower treble transition) but even if yes, they are not audiophile standards IEM, I find them very pleasing and to my ears, don't have big flaws except the fact that when there's a lot of music information with plenty of instruments, the sound tends to become a little bit confused and muddy... For outside, when the focus is not only on music, they do the job nicely...

Now sound signature is also a matter of preferences and tastes....


----------



## Firevortex (Oct 16, 2018)

sly_in_the_sky said:


> I had plenty of high-end Iems and personnally, I find the 65T to have a respectable SQ. I find them to be well balanced with a nice soundstage. I just use the equalizer a little bit to adapt the sound to my personnal tastes (low down the higher medium/lower treble transition) but even if yes, they are not audiophile standards IEM, I find them very pleasing and to my ears, don't have big flaws except the fact that when there's a lot of music information with plenty of instruments, the sound tends to become a little bit confused and muddy... For outside, when the concentration is not only on music, they do the job nicely...
> 
> Now sound signature is also a matter of preferences and tastes....



Like i said i have very limited experience with IEMs my main rig is the K1000 driven by speaker amps. So the only thing i can compare to atm is the $28 soundpeats. bass on the soundpeats is tight and deep while 65t sounds lose and frayed. there is a sparkle on the treble with the soundpeats while 65t just sounds dull. vocals sounds more natural smooth dynamic on the soundpeats while 65t sounds artificial lifeless.  i don't even want to go into separation its just sound muddy with an orchestra. To me, all those properties point to SQ issue with lower quality drivers or codec compared to soundpeats.  i'm not pleased with the soundpeats either thus i wanted an upgrade.

there is now an audible hiss coming from the left earbud of the 65t when I play music. could be faulty?


----------



## sly_in_the_sky (Oct 16, 2018)

Firevortex said:


> Like i said i have very limited experience with IEMs my main rig is the K1000 driven by speaker amps. So the only thing i can compare to atm is the $28 soundpeats. bass on the soundpeats is tight and deep while 65t sounds lose and frayed. there is a sparkle on the treble with the soundpeats while 65t just sounds dull. vocals sounds more natural smooth dynamic on the soundpeats while 65t sounds artificial lifeless.  i don't even want to go into separation its just sound muddy with an orchestra. To me, all those properties point to SQ issue with lower quality drivers or codec compared to soundpeats.  i'm not pleased with the soundpeats either thus i wanted an upgrade.
> 
> there is now an audible hiss coming from the left earbud of the 65t when I play music. could be faulty?



Perhaps your soundpeats are better than the 65T, possible...

Concerning the hiss, I think that yes it's faulty. I had one pair of 65t that I gave to my sister and a pair of 65t active for me now and none of them had hiss issues...


----------



## david8613

anyone compare the sound quality of the sony wf-1000x vs the newer sony wf sp700? I had the sony wf 1000x in my rotation more than once in the past, I really enjoyed the sound but I would return them or sell them because of the low battery time, and disconnect when outdoors. I just purchased another sony wf 1000x because I missed the sound sig I guess and size and fit. I am just wondering if the newer sony wf sp700 will be better sounding at all? better connection? I like that it has waterproofing for gym use but that case looks very cheap and bulky. any thoughts from those who had and used both models?


----------



## taylor

I've got a set of the Jabra Elite Active 65t arriving tomorrow, will post my impressions. I'm seeing very mixed impressions of their SQ there. I'm coming from a very old pair of Shure E2C IEMs, and I found one person who had done a head-to-head comparison and said the Jabras are a bit better sounding. Honestly though for the type of usage I'm considering, a minor reduction in SQ would be acceptable, as long as it's not garbage. 

Right now my hesitation is on latency - I bought the Jabras thinking that BT 5.0 would alleviate that, but the Rtings.com review ranks them (and most other 'true wireless') as being pretty terrible on latency. At least half the time I use these, it's going to be paired to an Element smart TV with Bluetooth 4.2 (can't find info on which codecs the TV supports) watching movies. So my priority will be to do some testing with latency to see for myself.

Basically I do 1-2 hour sessions riding a stationary bike. Current audio solution is SPDIF out from the TV to a Maverick D1 DAC and then a 3.5mm extension to Shure E2Cs, which sounds great but there's no good way to secure the cord as I move around on the bike. The main thing I want is wireless with dual pairing (so they can be paired to my phone and the TV and just play whichever, without re-doing the pairing process)

I'm having pre-emptive buyer's remorse because of the ~1/4 second lag that some people are reporting... We'll see what happens tomorrow, I'll test them with the TV and my phone from various sources



RunsWithScissors said:


> New Comply Foam Tips coming!
> 
> I’ve had the Jabra Elite Active 65t for over one month now and very happy with these earphones. Only downside is lag with YouTube vids. No lag with Netflix or Amazon Prime video or streaming video from home network PC on iPhone 7 or iPad. I use the provided large size silicone tips and get good sound, albeit with slightly difficult fit.
> 
> ...



Any updates?


----------



## Rickyearl

sly_in_the_sky said:


> Perhaps your soundpeats are better than the 65T, possible...
> 
> Concerning the hiss, I think that yes it's faulty. I had one pair of 65t that I gave to my sister and a pair of 65t active for me now and none of them had hiss issues...



I think there's a bit of QC issue across the board on the TW models.  I may buy two pairs of all of them to eliminate it. My E8s, the 65ts, the Anker offerings all have reviews all over the map in terms of both signature and SQ.

My $0.02 on the 65t was that they sound OK.  Not great - even for TW.  Just OK.  But I also reacted pretty negatively to two purely aesthetic things.  First, the goofy-looking shape.  None of these are "sexy" looking by any means, but the Jabras are extra bulky with that little nub sticking out just like the old "bluetooth douche" earpieces of the mid-2000s.  I rarely care what people think about my appearance, but I admit that I felt a little self-conscious with them in, like I needed to tell strangers around me "no, I'm not such a wanna-be that I wear *two* bluetooth headsets from ten years ago- they're headphones. I promise."  Second (and related), they just look cheap somehow - that silver-painted plastic body, the holes, the logo, all of it looks like something you bought at Walmart on the clearance rack.  So if Jabra came out with a new model that sounded like Audeze LCD cans but looked exactly the same as the current model, I probably wouldn't be interested.


----------



## The Apostle

This may have been answered, but I have not logged in and checked in a few months.  I love my Jabra Elite 65T...  Only 1 complaint.  I am in a small office and I use them for work.  Often times people on the other end say they can hear the people in the background as if they are on the phone with me.  To the point that people have asked me to take them off the earset.  I have not seen anyway to change this in settings.  Anyone have recommendations on a set of wireless buds that would be better suited for an office environment?


----------



## david8613

The Apostle said:


> This may have been answered, but I have not logged in and checked in a few months.  I love my Jabra Elite 65T...  Only 1 complaint.  I am in a small office and I use them for work.  Often times people on the other end say they can hear the people in the background as if they are on the phone with me.  To the point that people have asked me to take them off the earset.  I have not seen anyway to change this in settings.  Anyone have recommendations on a set of wireless buds that would be better suited for an office environment?




I noticed this too with my 65t active version. i think most truewireless are like this.


----------



## howdy

Any of you try the Jaybird Run? If had then a few months now and really like them. They sound good and very few dropouts at the gym. You need a good seal and tweak the eq to your liking .


----------



## styler

clerkpalmer said:


> Why not mw07 with 10% off? Reviews last week have been very positive  many sources saying best sq available.



I have Beoplay e8 and just got the mw07. In my opinion the mw07 have better bass but that’s about it. For active things like working out the e8 are superior. I honestly can’t tell if I like or dislike the mw07. I’ve found them harsh on several songs, thin on others and good on a couple. I think the e8s are less bass heavy but better behaved overall. The mw07 badly needs foam tips for anything other than sitting and slow walking.


----------



## yukiorui

styler said:


> I have Beoplay e8 and just got the mw07. In my opinion the mw07 have better bass but that’s about it. For active things like working out the e8 are superior. I honestly can’t tell if I like or dislike the mw07. I’ve found them harsh on several songs, thin on others and good on a couple. I think the e8s are less bass heavy but better behaved overall. The mw07 badly needs foam tips for anything other than sitting and slow walking.



Could you share what source you played with?


----------



## nbacha

ye that's


styler said:


> I have Beoplay e8 and just got the mw07. In my opinion the mw07 have better bass but that’s about it. For active things like working out the e8 are superior. I honestly can’t tell if I like or dislike the mw07. I’ve found them harsh on several songs, thin on others and good on a couple. I think the e8s are less bass heavy but better behaved overall. The mw07 badly needs foam tips for anything other than sitting and slow walking.


im glad it's not just me. I also found them quite harsh compared to others I've tried and even asked them if they know of any foam tips that work but they don't.
Sent them back


----------



## Firevortex

Rickyearl said:


> I think there's a bit of QC issue across the board on the TW models.  I may buy two pairs of all of them to eliminate it. My E8s, the 65ts, the Anker offerings all have reviews all over the map in terms of both signature and SQ.



I've called up support today and they said i need to update my firmware and Sound+ app version? but in app, it says i have the latest version.  can you guys who have the Jabras check which version firmware you guys have? they told me 2.14.0 is the newest? i have 2.10.0 from the app store.

i'm going to return those back to Jabra if the firmware doesn't fix the issue. music just sounds like its underwater for me, unfortunately.


----------



## sly_in_the_sky (Oct 17, 2018)

Hello,

I confirm that I have 2.14. You first must download the new app update on app store, sometimes it takes several ours to the app on your phone to detect that there's a firmware update... I don't know why...


----------



## Firevortex (Oct 17, 2018)

sly_in_the_sky said:


> Hello,
> 
> I confirm that I have 2.14. You first must download the new app update on app store, sometimes it takes several ours to the app on your phone to detect that there's a firmware update... I don't know why...




yeah, i did that yesterday and it did nothing. I had to restart my phone, uninstall then reinstall the app and it updated. hiss is still there on the left bud. now there is a small pop/crack happening in both earbuds 1sec after i pause the music also at 80% volume.

oh well, time for a refund.


----------



## sly_in_the_sky (Oct 17, 2018)

I'm sorry for you... it seems obvious that you have a deffective Jabra and it's not a matter of app firmware... and I wonder if it can also affect SQ...


----------



## david8613

i I picked up both, it looks like the sony wf sp700 and the sony wf 1000x are basically same internals. to me the sound the same, function the same, battery life is the same, it looks to me sony just took the wf1000x reshelled it and made it water proof, and changed the case which seems chintzy and large to me. the the smaller wf1000x buds fits better. sound is great in both, button placement is better on wf1000x.


----------



## webvan

These are the ones with ANC right ? An ANC that people have a heard time noticing if memory serves ! Maybe it goes to show that ANC does not work for IEMs with good isolation. It should in theory though because soundproof IEMs don't filter out as much bass as ANC circuits based on my experience.


----------



## david8613

the noise cancelling works imo, I tested it in car with engine noise and ac on full blast, not as good as the sony wh1000x m2 which I also have, but not bad at all, I like it. they sound sweet better in my opinion than a lot of the truewireless on the market now, that why I keep buying them, its just battery sucks bad at 3 hours or less.


----------



## webvan

Interesting thanks, is that for both the 700 and the 1000 ?
Rtings say that even with ANC On (practically no difference on the 700) they aren't as good as the Jabra 65T : https://www.rtings.com/headphones/t...0x-vs-jabra-elite-65t/562/612#comparison_2088


----------



## daid1

So so so, I'm looking for a gift a fully wireless iem, without the cable to one iem to the other, there is something around 50 dollars that has a good sound quality or it is better a good detachable cable iem around that price and a simple 6 dollars Bluetooth transmitter?


----------



## SomeGuyDude

yukiorui said:


> Could you share what source you played with?



Source is irrelevant with wireless.


----------



## taylor

SomeGuyDude said:


> Source is irrelevant with wireless.



I was under the impression that your source device needs to support the appropriate AptX, AptX HD, AAC, or LDAC codecs in order to get improved SQ, if it only supports SBC then you'll have lossy compression


----------



## nc8000

taylor said:


> I was under the impression that your source device needs to support the appropriate AptX, AptX HD, AAC, or LDAC codecs in order to get improved SQ, if it only supports SBC then you'll have lossy compression



Yes you need a match for codecs


----------



## SomeGuyDude

taylor said:


> I was under the impression that your source device needs to support the appropriate AptX, AptX HD, AAC, or LDAC codecs in order to get improved SQ, if it only supports SBC then you'll have lossy compression



Yeah, that part is true. But I mean that in the sense that as long as you've got the right codecs, it doesn't matter because the source isn't impacting the sound at all. It's just a transfer source since all the heavy lifting is being done by the headphones themselves.


----------



## yukiorui (Oct 17, 2018)

SomeGuyDude said:


> Yeah, that part is true. But I mean that in the sense that as long as you've got the right codecs, it doesn't matter because the source isn't impacting the sound at all. It's just a transfer source since all the heavy lifting is being done by the headphones themselves.



What I mean is, did you use a source that offers Apt-X? I imagine that's relevant. That affects the transmission and can make a huge difference in terms of how well the sound is finally converted and perceived.


----------



## dweaver

Most true wireless IEMs don't support aptx so having a source that supports that format. What IEM are you thinking if getting?


----------



## yukiorui

dweaver said:


> Most true wireless IEMs don't support aptx so having a source that supports that format. What IEM are you thinking if getting?



The original poster mentioned trying the MW07 which supports Apt-X, so I was just curious whether his impressions were based on a device streaming Apt-X as well.


----------



## AudioJunki3

I've just received my MW07's this morning. Not 100% sure what I think of them. I've had the 65T and Airpods to compare. Really can't decide what I think of them.


----------



## Itson

I'm still curious about RHA TrueConnect. They're supposed to ship today for people who pre-ordered them. I want to hear some initial impressions.


----------



## srinivasvignesh

In the same boat about RHA.


----------



## BigAund

Earin M2 supports AptX


----------



## MIBUK

FYI. Earin TWS are offering 20% voucher today. They cost €249 normally. Use the word October to get a rebate. They also offer a 14 day free return.

I have a pair. My only caution is if you use TWS a lot for phone calls, they may not meet your requirements. I use them just for listening to Spotify & Audible and they work for me in those scenarios.


----------



## nbacha (Oct 18, 2018)

MIBUK said:


> FYI. Earin TWS are offering 20% voucher today. They cost €249 normally. Use the word October to get a rebate. They also offer a 14 day free return.
> 
> I have a pair. My only caution is if you use TWS a lot for phone calls, they may not meet your requirements. I use them just for listening to Spotify & Audible and they work for me in those scenarios.


Apparently the code will go live at 2PM CET

Anyone know how these sound compared with the 65t?


----------



## MIBUK

Sorry, the devil is always in the detail. As stated it starts at 2pm CET today. Use OCTOBER in upper case, just to be sure.


----------



## nbacha

MIBUK said:


> Sorry, the devil is always in the detail. As stated it starts at 2pm CET today. Use OCTOBER in upper case, just to be sure.


Have you been able to compare them to something like the 65t or e8?


----------



## MIBUK

nbacha said:


> Have you been able to compare them to something like the 65t or e8?



Sorry, no. I had a cheap Chinese pair and never received a Kickstarter TWS. So, these are my first real pair. I like the small size and the storage unit. Metal and very sleek. Sound wise, they feel neutral in my ears. There’s no left or right. They connect individually to the phone, so you see two units. They are touch sensitive to start/stop, skip track forward or back. No direct sound control. 

They offer the 14 day free returns. So, worth a try if they’re something that might interest you. They’re owned by Will.I.am’s company, but are a Swedish company on its second version, the M-2s.


----------



## nbacha

MIBUK said:


> Sorry, no. I had a cheap Chinese pair and never received a Kickstarter TWS. So, these are my first real pair. I like the small size and the storage unit. Metal and very sleek. Sound wise, they feel neutral in my ears. There’s no left or right. They connect individually to the phone, so you see two units. They are touch sensitive to start/stop, skip track forward or back. No direct sound control.
> 
> They offer the 14 day free returns. So, worth a try if they’re something that might interest you. They’re owned by Will.I.am’s company, but are a Swedish company on its second version, the M-2s.



Don't really know this company so not sure how they are on returns, will they try get out of it etc....
Might wait and see if more reviews pop up, for the money i can get 65ts

So far reading that 4 hours is a huge overestimate for battery and sound is just ok,


----------



## webvan

Nice discount on the Earin M-2, brings them down to 199€



david8613 said:


> the noise cancelling works imo, I tested it in car with engine noise and ac on full blast, not as good as the sony wh1000x m2 which I also have, but not bad at all, I like it. they sound sweet better in my opinion than a lot of the truewireless on the market now, that why I keep buying them, its just battery sucks bad at 3 hours or less.



Interesting thanks, is that for both the 700 and the 1000 ?
Rtings say that even with ANC On (practically no difference on the 700) they aren't as good as the Jabra 65T that are passive only of course : https://www.rtings.com/headphones/t...ra-elite-65t/562/612#usage*5003!threshold*0.1


----------



## david8613 (Oct 18, 2018)

I am not sure how they got that, I know with my use I can hear noise cancelling working well on both, I tested it in car with ac full blast and at work with a scanner, it cancels those mid to low frequency droning sounds, higher pitched, quick sounds not so much. I believe the the 700 and 1000 are the same electronics internally just different style shells, case and water proofing for 700. I kind of like the 1000 because the buds are smaller, and case is better not so flismy. I love my Jabras 65t and elite sport they sound great to me, nice bass, loud, good separation, but I think the sonys sound just a little nicer, smoother, cleaner, don't get as loud and battery is bad though. I like rotating my buds, I like using different sound sigs.


----------



## webvan

Good to hear! Yes you have to wonder how they make sure the seal is optimized without someone "behind" the ears 

As for ANC on IEMs with good passive isolation like the Jabras (do you agree with them that the Sonys are weaker in that area? ) I'm not sure if it would add a lot, especially if you're listening to music. Maybe if you're in a car?


----------



## clerkpalmer

webvan said:


> Good to hear! Yes you have to wonder how they make sure the seal is optimized without someone "behind" the ears
> 
> As for ANC on IEMs with good passive isolation like the Jabras (do you agree with them that the Sonys are weaker in that area? ) I'm not sure if it would add a lot, especially if you're listening to music. Maybe if you're in a car?


I haven't heard the Jabras but the ANC on the sony is noticeable.  This isn't QC35 level ANC but it definitely helps.  I use them in the gym and my basement exercise room.  In the gym, it definitely kills the background music and in my basement, where I run a fan, it drowns the fan out completely.  It allows me to listen at much lower volume levels.  The Sony have a little bit of any open-ish design.  You don't jam them in like the Jabras.  This is a plus for me and those who don't like the clogged feeling of IEMs.  I certainly recommend them if you can live with the form factor which doesn't really bother me.


----------



## david8613 (Oct 18, 2018)

The included tips for the sonys give a seal but not perfect, I had to use some other spare silicon tips i had to get a much better seal with better isolation, so anc works really well. same goes for the Jabra elite sport the included tips did not work for me to get a perfect seal, I used some other tips I had now I have perfect seal with great isolation, and great bass. the 65t active tips work fine for me no complaints. I just A/B'ed tested my jabras and the sonys, the Jabra get louder have more authorative bass, but the sonys are smoother, nicer, cleaner, more separated wider deeper, sound stage. I really like the sonys sound, if they only added volume controls, and bigger battery, with more charges in case, slightly louder voume this would be the head phone to beat, so close sony. sony are pros at head phones, cant wait to see what they do next generation hopefully they will have ldac by then.


----------



## Sp12er3

I'm leaning on WF 1000X, but then SP900 got announced, being able to hear music while swimming is quite tempting for me. .
But even then it's still not released yet, better wait for wf1000M2 and see whether that'd have a good update 

For now, I'm satisfied with my Fiio BTR3, making all my gear wireless


----------



## webvan

Yep always something to look forward to 

@clerkpalmer and david8613 - thanks for the feedback on the Sony TWE's, I'd definitely like to try ANC on an IEM that provides good passive isolation I never seem to be able to get a perfect seal with silicone tips (well I seem to remember that I did with the Sony XBA4's in a static position but I've sold them since as they "hurt" my ears !). What makes it more difficult with the TWEs, at least the Jabras, is that the tip has to be short enough so you can leave it on when recharging them in the box. I find the JES L size foam tips work well for me and give great sound but running with them is terrible due to the "thud" they create. With the L size SIlicone tips I get practically no bass. Actually I think I'm going to give up trying to run with IEMs that seal the ear canal, for a start it's not terribly safe, and the "thud" pretty much defeats the purpose of getting a good bassy sound in the first place. I'll go back to running with my pretty much "open" Plantronics BackBeat Fit and won't have to worry about sweat getting to them.

I bumped across a great deal on the 65t Elite (non-active) and couldn't help myself so I'll soon have something to compare the JES to !


----------



## styler

After living with the mw07 for a few days I’ve decided I don’t like them, at least I greatly prefer the beoplay e8s. With acoustic music the mw07 sound best but with a lot of other music they sound uneven. The bass over powers the mids; the highs are often too bright. They are just too uneven for me. They also desperately need foam tips for better/stronger fit.


----------



## daid1

daid1 said:


> So so so, I'm looking for a gift a fully wireless iem, without the cable to one iem to the other, there is something around 50 dollars that has a good sound quality or it is better a good detachable cable iem around that price and a simple 6 dollars Bluetooth transmitter?



Anyone can tell me if under the budget of 50 dollars the sound quality of a true wireless is far or not to a good iem in the same price range?


----------



## webvan

Not that I know, as with many things you get what you pay for...see one of my posts above about the Vigorun, it looked good initially but it has too many shortcomings in the end compared to Jabra class TWS solutions.


----------



## Thesonofkrypton

Just got the RHA TrueConnect in.  Charging them up.  Have high hopes for these, hope they're as good as I imagine.


----------



## Hoplite

Thesonofkrypton said:


> Just got the RHA TrueConnect in.  Charging them up.  Have high hopes for these, hope they're as good as I imagine.


Looking forward to your thoughts on it!


----------



## clerkpalmer

Hoplite said:


> Looking forward to your thoughts on it!


Me too. I cancelled my preorder due to a lack of aac. Subscribed.


----------



## Itson

Thesonofkrypton said:


> Just got the RHA TrueConnect in.  Charging them up.  Have high hopes for these, hope they're as good as I imagine.


Keep us updated. Sitting on the fence here


----------



## Thesonofkrypton (Oct 19, 2018)

Gave the RHA TrueConnect a listen for about 90mins.

I have tried the usual suspects on my search for a decent set of truly wireless earphones and hold the Sony WX-1000X in high regard for their sound quality.

First thing that needs to be addressed is the FIT of these.  These suckers stay where you put them! However, due to the bulbous design of the outer part, you kind of feel violated when you first put them in.  You can also feel them resting on the ear as well, there's a bit of pressure that kind of drifts in and out (you forget they're there then you move and feel them again).  I imagine they'd be even more of an issue for those with smaller sized ears.  I feel the design might have benefited from more of a tapered design, not sure but not 100% happy with the fit.

They're not advertised as noise cancelling but they're very very good at blocking outside noises due to the fit, which could be dangerous when out and about.  The Sony WF-1000X (which sound better imo) have noise cancelling and will adjust to your surroundings which is better for safety.  Depends how you see it I guess.

First impressions of the SOUND:
Good but not great.  There's more clarity, a wider soundstage and tighter more impactful bass with the Sony WF-1000X.  The first thing you notice is the mids, they're very present in the signature, female vocals sounded good.  From memory I think I prefer the sound from the RHA wireless 750.  I did like how older recordings like motown and jazz recordings sounded on the TrueConnect.  I can't quite nail it, but there's something I just don't like about the sound in comparison to the Sony.  I'm listening to music on the TrueConnect but i'm listening and toe tapping with the Sonys.  I'm not versed enough in this hobby to fully describe it but it's almost like there's a veil over the vocals and the bass I felt was there but a bit uncontrolled at times, a bit boomy in fact on some tracks.

The WIRELESS CONNECTION was quick and solid.  They connected to my iPhone automatically when I took them out the case fairly quickly.  Update: I took these out and for some reason the right earbud didn't have sound.  I turned them off and on again and did the same with the bluetooth connection on the phone and that seemed to sort it out.

Credit has to be given to RHA for the design, they look spectacular.  Probably the best looking set on the market imo, absolutely love them from a design perspective and I think they look pretty sweet on ear.  The materials are really nice in hand and premium feeling.

All in all, I'm not 100% happy with this purchase, maybe because I was expecting too much as I absolutely loved the MA750i.  The perfect wireless earbuds would be the sound of the sony wx-1000x in the shell of the TrueConnect.  I'll give them more of a listen but based off my first listen, I will likely return these and give up my search until there's more options out there.


    
 

Based off initial use of the TrueConnect:

PROS:
Design
Build quality
Battery life
Noise isolating

CONS:
Better sound quality out there for less
Fit (if you have small to smedium sized ears, this will be an issue imo)
The push in button on the earpieces can be accidentally pressed while you're adjusting the fit
Noise isolating

***
Some of the songs I tried (all Apple lossless codec on the iPhone X via bluetooth 5):

Lana Del Ray - Cruel World
Nina Simone - I put a spell on you
Marian Hill - Wild
Wet Wet Wet - temptation
Lindsey Sterling - Brave Enough
Banks - Goddess
Flume - Never be like you
Diana Krall - Let's fall in love
Michael Jackson - Stranger in Moscow
Nora Jones - Waiting
The Prodigy - Breath
Ed Sheeran - Dive
Delta Goodrem - Born to Try
Rainbow Team - Bite the apple
The Four Tops - Everybody's talking
Soul to Soul - back to life
Daft Punk - Get lucky
Michael Jackson - Man in the mirror
Stevie Wonder - Superstition
Massive Attack - Angel
Birdy - people help the people
Sia - Cheap Thrills
Utada - Prisoner of love


----------



## srinivasvignesh

Thanks for the detailed update. Did you try any videos, was there any lag? Would it be possible to try NetFlix, for example?


----------



## Thesonofkrypton

srinivasvignesh said:


> Thanks for the detailed update. Did you try any videos, was there any lag? Would it be possible to try NetFlix, for example?



I don't have netflix currently.  But i just tried it on youtube and there is a tiny lag.


----------



## Churchill Wu (Oct 19, 2018)

Thesonofkrypton said:


> Gave the RHA TrueConnect a listen for about 90mins.
> 
> I have tried the usual suspects on my search for a decent set of truly wireless earphones and hold the Sony WX-1000X in high regard for their sound quality.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the first impressions!

On the sound quality - could it be that the earbuds haven't burned in yet? I know I felt the "veil" on the audio when I first got my RHA MA750 wireless, and it's really opened up after a while of burning in! If you don't mind, could you test that and report back if the sound quality improves after letting it burn in for a few hours?


----------



## Thesonofkrypton

Churchill Wu said:


> Thanks for the first impressions!
> 
> Thanks for the first impressions!
> 
> On the sound quality - could it be that the earbuds haven't burned in yet? I know I felt the "veil" on the audio when I first got my RHA MA750 wireless, and it's really opened up after a while of burning in! If you don't mind, could you test that and report back if the sound quality improves after letting it burn in for a few hours?



Of course, burning away.  That was the first impressions but if anything changes I'll be sure to amend.


----------



## dweaver

Thanks for initial impressions, I look forward to your future posts on the new RHA


----------



## Itson

Thesonofkrypton said:


> Of course, burning away.  That was the first impressions but if anything changes I'll be sure to amend.


Great post with a ton of useful information. I will most likely use then for workouts / podcasts /calls, I've got over ear cans for regular listening  I'm curious about the quality of those microphones for calls. Let me know how they do. Thanks a lot.


----------



## Thesonofkrypton

Itson said:


> Great post with a ton of useful information. I will most likely use then for workouts / podcasts /calls, I've got over ear cans for regular listening  I'm curious about the quality of those microphones for calls. Let me know how they do. Thanks a lot.



Can imagine they'll be good for the gym, very robust, great fit and seal.  That pressure on the ear though, not sure if you'd feel it more during a workout.


----------



## Silvermane

Just received my 65t today... 
Sound is just ok-ish. Don't know if I'll be able to live with them if I'm honest.

Also, I thought that they were supposed to support AAC but it keeps defaulting back to SBC on my S9+. Can anyone confirm that they do support this because I've been reading mixed messages on this.


----------



## Churchill Wu (Oct 19, 2018)

Thesonofkrypton said:


> Of course, burning away.  That was the first impressions but if anything changes I'll be sure to amend.


Thanks for all this!
How is the case? The one handed mechanism works well? How about pocketability compared to other True Wireless Earbuds out there?


----------



## Silvermane

Silvermane said:


> Just received my 65t today...
> Sound is just ok-ish. Don't know if I'll be able to live with them if I'm honest.
> 
> Also, I thought that they were supposed to support AAC but it keeps defaulting back to SBC on my S9+. Can anyone confirm that they do support this because I've been reading mixed messages on this.



Nevermind... found it: need to disable dual audio output ability. Then it defaults to the best available audio codec which in this case is AAC


----------



## chinmie

i just got the Sony Wf-1000x and the Jabra Elite 65t and have been comparing them for a few days. for pure sound only, i would take the sony any day. it beats the 65t in soundstage depth and airy-ness the 65t, while good sounding, i need to eq it first, and even after eq the sound lacks depth. i think the sony even performs better than some wired iems around $100 range

i also like the sony's fit better because of its standard IEM silicon tips. the 65t, while it fits well, it moves around and loose seal (especially the right earpiece) whenever i open my mouth or tilt my head back. also the fit of the 65t feels too "full" on my ears.

what i like about the 65t compared to the sony  are the shallower profile (less prone to be knocked off the ears) , better battery, smaller case, and real EQ, unlike the preset only of the Sony (or i just didn't find how to do it on the sony

i might use the Sony more often around the house, while i just use the Jabra for outdoor sports only

side note:i found that every time i start using the WF1000x, it will loose connection to the right channel intermittently, but after i toggle the ambient/ noise canceling mode and set to turn those off, the intermittent disconnect will stop altogether and it will have a solid connection.

ps:i haven't test both of them outside or in a busy environment like the mall, etc where there's a lot of radio interferences, so i don't know how stable they would perform on that conditions


----------



## Thesonofkrypton

chinmie said:


> i just got the Sony Wf-1000x and the Jabra Elite 65t and have been comparing them for a few days. for pure sound only, i would take the sony any day. it beats the 65t in soundstage depth and airy-ness the 65t, while good sounding, i need to eq it first, and even after eq the sound lacks depth. i think the sony even performs better than some wired iems around $100 range
> 
> i also like the sony's fit better because of its standard IEM silicon tips. the 65t, while it fits well, it moves around and loose seal (especially the right earpiece) whenever i open my mouth or tilt my head back. also the fit of the 65t feels too "full" on my ears.
> 
> ...



Nothing trumps the Wf-1000x for sound quality over Bluetooth. They really need to sort thing issue out but to be fair it hasn’t happened to me as often as I read about.


----------



## taylor

chinmie said:


> i just got the Sony Wf-1000x and the Jabra Elite 65t and have been comparing them for a few days. for pure sound only, i would take the sony any day. it beats the 65t in soundstage depth and airy-ness the 65t, while good sounding, i need to eq it first, and even after eq the sound lacks depth. i think the sony even performs better than some wired iems around $100 range
> 
> i also like the sony's fit better because of its standard IEM silicon tips. the 65t, while it fits well, it moves around and loose seal (especially the right earpiece) whenever i open my mouth or tilt my head back. also the fit of the 65t feels too "full" on my ears.
> 
> ...



I just got the Jabras. Sound is good to me. Isolation is on par with regular IEMs. I was surprised with how secure the fit was, and very impressed with connection quality. From an ease of use perspective they were great, take them out of the case and they turn themselves on and pair. Totally seamless. 

There are only two things I don't like - they don't have ANC, which I didn't realize when I bought them. And they have a ~1/4 second latency with video from certain sources. On my TV it was noticeable but didn't really bother me. On my phone it was better.

I'm debating returning them for one of the two Sony models, either the WF1000X or SP700N. 75% of the time that I use these, I'm going to have a fan on in the room, and if they truly do cancel out fan noise like was stated previously, that's a game changer.


----------



## clerkpalmer

taylor said:


> I just got the Jabras. Sound is good to me. Isolation is on par with regular IEMs. I was surprised with how secure the fit was, and very impressed with connection quality. From an ease of use perspective they were great, take them out of the case and they turn themselves on and pair. Totally seamless.
> 
> There are only two things I don't like - they don't have ANC, which I didn't realize when I bought them. And they have a ~1/4 second latency with video from certain sources. On my TV it was noticeable but didn't really bother me. On my phone it was better.
> 
> I'm debating returning them for one of the two Sony models, either the WF1000X or SP700N. 75% of the time that I use these, I'm going to have a fan on in the room, and if they truly do cancel out fan noise like was stated previously, that's a game changer.



Fan will be reduced to a low hum


----------



## taylor

clerkpalmer said:


> Fan will be reduced to a low hum



Do either of the two Sony (SP700N or WF-1000X) support multiple pairings? I don't need them to be paired to two devices simultameously, but I do want them to be able to remember two devices and connect to either without going through the pairing process. I'm not sure how to interpret what it says on Rtings "They do not have simultaneous multi-devices pairing but do remember the last sync device for auto-pairing when you open the charging case."

Does that mean if I want to switch from my phone to my TV I need to put them in pairing mode and go through the whole shebang every time? Or does it just mean that they can't be connected to both at the same time?


----------



## chinmie

taylor said:


> Do either of the two Sony (SP700N or WF-1000X) support multiple pairings? I don't need them to be paired to two devices simultameously, but I do want them to be able to remember two devices and connect to either without going through the pairing process. I'm not sure how to interpret what it says on Rtings "They do not have simultaneous multi-devices pairing but do remember the last sync device for auto-pairing when you open the charging case."
> 
> Does that mean if I want to switch from my phone to my TV I need to put them in pairing mode and go through the whole shebang every time? Or does it just mean that they can't be connected to both at the same time?



yes, it can pair to multiple devices, but not simultaneously. but it will remember all the devices it has paired before


----------



## srinivasvignesh

Thesonofkrypton said:


> I don't have netflix currently.  But i just tried it on youtube and there is a tiny lag.



Thanks for checking this. Looks like the lag is not annoying for non serious viewing.


----------



## Thesonofkrypton (Oct 19, 2018)

Churchill Wu said:


> Thanks for all this!
> How is the case? The one handed mechanism works well? How about pocketability compared to other True Wireless Earbuds out there?


The case is brilliant and the mechanism works really well.  It has a nice feel to it, love that soft touch feel.  It's not as small as the AirPods case but certainly pocketable.  Smaller footprint than the sony case too.


----------



## Thesonofkrypton

srinivasvignesh said:


> Thanks for checking this. Looks like the lag is not annoying for non serious viewing.


It's very minor but it's there if you're looking for it.


----------



## webvan (Oct 19, 2018)

Wow lots of great updates here 
I received the 65T to day too and have been putting them through their paces, comparing them to my Jabra Elite Sport (JES), here are a few notes :
- They definitely put less pressure on the ears which is great to just have them around the house
- Unlike what is reported on RTings I don't think the (passive) isolation is as good though, I do get a good seal though (have the "plugged ears" feel when I talk) so I suppose it's just their design. I should note that I use the stock foam tips with the JES as I get zero seal with the stock silicone tips.
- I tried some Comply Truly Wireless tips I had lying around and I get zero seal unlike what had been reported elsewhere, I guess my ears canals are too big.
- I like their sound and it sounds close to the JES once you push up the bass a bit, but not as "crystalline".
- I'd read you needed to insert them with the tip down and then twist them up but that hurts my ear so I just leave them with the tip down and they slot in nicely in the "gap" at the bottom of my ears.
- now the BIG (and unexpected) issue is that the "thump" when you run (or even walk with them) is even worse than with the JES where it was already pretty distracting. I suppose that's the effect of the tip going deep in the air canal and blocking the air in there completely. On the JES the foam probably lets a bit of air through.

Not sure what to think...I quite like them and I suppose they'd be great to wear around the house/office/train/plane but I can't imagine doing any activity involving walking or running with them as the "thump" would be way too annoying.

@taylor - do you hear the hum of the AC when you're wearing them ? The passive isolation of the 65T is supposed to be way better than on the Sony's (espcially for bass filtering) so it's possible that there would be little, if any, difference with the Sonys with ANC on, especially while listening to music. We were talking about that yesterday with david8613. I might go dig out my fan that I use in the summer to see how the 65Ts do vs my ANC IEMs (that have poor passive isolation)


----------



## albau (Oct 19, 2018)

Silvermane said:


> Just received my 65t today...
> Sound is just ok-ish. Don't know if I'll be able to live with them if I'm honest.
> 
> Also, I thought that they were supposed to support AAC but it keeps defaulting back to SBC on my S9+. Can anyone confirm that they do support this because I've been reading mixed messages on this.


On my S8 my 65t elite use AAC. For wireless I actually like their sound especially when EQed. And in wired IEMs my reference point are Westone 4 and 2. To me Jabras sound like a decent pair of $100 dynamic driver wired IEMs, sort of like Panasonic HJE900 or Monster Gold, but less bassy. Also I found they benefit from burning. Maybe SBC is at the core of your SQ problems?


----------



## clerkpalmer (Oct 19, 2018)

Took a flyer today at Best Buy on the JLab Epic Air Elite which is an update to last years mediocre reviewed Epic Air.  I bought a pair when they first came out last year and could not believe how awful they sounded.  Well, either something was off with my pair or the ones are much improved.  SQ is quite good - if you like a V-shaped signature with lots of bass.  Seem very secure in the ear.  These are NOT audiophile grade or balanced but for the gym, they are just right. 

I was convinced I was going to buy the Elite Active but the repeated references to average-ish SQ has kept me away. I ended up sending the MW07 back for a refund.  SQ was excellent but the hiss was annoying in the left bud and I didn't love the fit.  Nice product though.

 The Audio Technicas seem to be delayed so I'll be waiting on the Senns.  Jury is still out on the RHA True Connect but the poster above confirmed what I suspect regarding SQ.  I understand the decision to focus on stability and battery but I would have liked AAC support.


----------



## taylor

webvan said:


> @taylor - do you hear the hum of the AC when you're wearing them ? The passive isolation of the 65T is supposed to be way better than on the Sony's (espcially for bass filtering) so it's possible that there would be little, if any, difference with the Sonys with ANC on, especially while listening to music. We were talking about that yesterday with david8613. I might go dig out my fan that I use in the summer to see how the 65Ts do vs my ANC IEMs (that have poor passive isolation)



The passive isolation is pretty solid - I did a test with my old Shure E2Cs and with a Jabra on one ear and an E2C in the other it sounds about the same volume. I can certainly tell that a fan is on, but it turns it down from 'annoyingly loud' to 'I know it's there'. If the Sony's are a step back in passive isolation and simply make up for it with ANC, I wouldn't switch. The comfort and form factor and connectivity of the Jabras is totally on point and I'm not disappointed with the isolation, it's more that I'm curious if there's room for improvement.


----------



## webvan

I have yet to find an IEM with ANC that has great passive isolation (not even sure they exist honestly...possibly for a reason) but in my experience with IEMs with ANC once you turn on ANC you achieve about the same noise reduction in the bass department as with IEMs with great passive isolation...without having to ram them down your ear canal, which is a big bonus for some people. However it can't make it up for higher pitched and "quick sounds" as david8613 put it yesterday, here's where we were discussing that yesterday https://www.head-fi.org/threads/goi...are-we-there-yet.861024/page-89#post-14545970 with Rtings isolation comparison.

A few weeks ago while in a noisy car I did put on ANC headphones over the Jabra Elite Sport and it did help. Will try the same thing in a plane next week  Actually I might take some 3M Peltor Optime I "headphones" too !


----------



## Firevortex

Jabra support was excellent. they have already sent a replacement pair. there is definitely something wrong with the pair i received. i walked into a mall yesterday and the drop out was crazy, 10+ times and total disconnection when walking past those shop securities gateways. 

i tried with different silicon tips that came with my sony mobile and i managed a better seal with one and it improved the SQ quite a bit. especially the lower end. but separation is still poor when there are a few things going on in the music. 
one other thing I've noticed, during calls the mic tend to pick up higher pitch noises. such as plastic bag handling/bird screeching/ wind noises to the point of being a major distraction for the caller on the other end. with "hear-through" function it kinda does the same thing, picking up higher frequency noises.

Don't think they are the right TWE for me. i'll definitely try out the LIVEIQ with ANC from nuheara when it's out in a month or so.


----------



## WCDchee (Oct 19, 2018)

I just got my first pair of TWS IEMs yesterday.

For those who don’t recognise my profile, I  come from real flagship IEMs like the 64 Audio Tia Fourte, the Dita Dream, Hifiman RE-2000 among many others. So yes I had my doubts about the sound quality of TWI earphones.

The first one I tried was the 65t, fit great, solid connection, and while sound was decent it wasn’t quite my thing. Not enough definition and a little too woolly.

Now the first TWS earphone that made me actually want to jump on board the wireless train, was the E8. Loved the sound and fit, but the battery life wasn’t remarkable and they were expensive. The highs got a tad hot too and no matter how I tip rolled, I could not get it to sound better, it only got worse.

So a week ago my Friend introduced me to the Havit G1.

https://www.prohavit.com/g1-series-tws-true-wireless-earbuds/

If you hunt around you can get them real cheap, I got mine for 75 SGD which is basically under 50 USD.

How does it sound? On stock tips they were good, not as good as the B&O but certainly on jabra’s level. But I switched the tips out to the JVC spiral dots and Low and behold, it was night and day. I would pick this over the E8 SONICALLY any day. Bass is strong, but across the spectrum with the right tips, the tonality is spot on. Resolution and separation, layering is remarkable for a TWS earphone.

Now it isnt perfect. No bells and whistles. No capacitative controls (they’re physical buttons so I would never use them), mic sucks, no multi pairing, sound far from the best on stock tips, and batt life is very average on the IEM at 3.5h, no hear through for safety when outdoors.

But on the flip side, for 50-70USD you get some of the best (best to my ears) TWS SQ, great fit and isolation, 18h extra batt life in the case, fantastic build quality only found in products 2-3 times its price (charging light on IEMs that pulsate while charging in case, and case that has a glowing logo when charging, magnetic placement of IEMs into case, and beautiful charging case).

It’s a basic TWS earphone, but it does the job so well.

I would STRONGLY recommend anyone looking for a wireless IEM to give this a shot.  It’s that good.


----------



## chinmie

taylor said:


> I just got the Jabras. Sound is good to me. Isolation is on par with regular IEMs. I was surprised with how secure the fit was, and very impressed with connection quality. From an ease of use perspective they were great, take them out of the case and they turn themselves on and pair. Totally seamless.
> 
> There are only two things I don't like - they don't have ANC, which I didn't realize when I bought them. And they have a ~1/4 second latency with video from certain sources. On my TV it was noticeable but didn't really bother me. On my phone it was better.
> 
> I'm debating returning them for one of the two Sony models, either the WF1000X or SP700N. 75% of the time that I use these, I'm going to have a fan on in the room, and if they truly do cancel out fan noise like was stated previously, that's a game changer.



the Jabra's fit is more like custom IEM, hard plastic contacting the ear... it does get painful for me. i much prefer the Wf-1000x fit. i wish the Jabra can easily use regular aftermarket eartips.

on the subject of ANC, the sony works, but just slightly. the Jabra's passive noise blocking is better. 

but the way the sony's sound, it can play music with lower volume and still can deliver good detail on noisy environment.


----------



## webvan

So you would say that the 65t's passive isolation is > Sony+ANC? When you think of the battery life (already low on the Sonys) penalty it's a bit of a problem... 

@WCDchee - interesting, will try to track them down

@Firevortex - what tips did you use? I get a good seal with the stock L tips but walking around with them (or eating!) let alone running is terrible, a kind of stéthoscope effect. Maybe different tips would help.


----------



## Firevortex

@webvan i used some generic tips that came with my Sony xzp. you can see from the photo its more rounded and taller than the largest Jabra tip next to it. the Jabra tip was hurting my ear for prolong use especially when i tap it for different functions.
the Havit G1s are on special at Joybuy atm if ppl are interested in trying.


----------



## webvan (Oct 20, 2018)

Thanks, I'll try to find some that look like that in my stack of tips !

About the Havit G1s, I looked around on the web and came across quite a bit of negative feedback. Not that it really matters but they look a LOT like the Jabra Elite Sport (including the "wings") and people complain about bassy spound, lag (only a problem for videos), left/right disconnections, lack of volume control. Also the battery life seems to be poor at 2/3 hours, dunno but it doesn't look like there's a lot to get excited about ?


----------



## mikp

ah, the havit or hgroov kickstarter, if I remember correctly they could be had for 350yuan before kickstarter people got theirs. A lot of issues with them stop functioning.

looks like the mavin x failed their funding. Could be ok, but there where so many red flags like never answering emails before campaign started,no communication on indiegogo. Pretending to be a company in usa, when they are based in taiwan. Also looks like "agency 2.0" is behind everything, like indiegogo,facebook and homepage. Think I sent them 4 emails with simple questions, and got 1 answer weeks later that It was available at comingsoon-tech.com\agency 2.0 with other such great tech as  ReGrow helmet.

Wating for reviews on the audio technica ones.


----------



## WCDchee

webvan said:


> Thanks, I'll try to find some that look like that in my stack of tips !
> 
> About the Havit G1s, I looked around on the web and came across quite a bit of negative feedback. Not that it really matters but they look a LOT like the Jabra Elite Sport (including the "wings") and people complain about bassy spound, lag (only a problem for videos), left/right disconnections, lack of volume control. Also the battery life seems to be poor at 2/3 hours, dunno but it doesn't look like there's a lot to get excited about ?



Battery life isn’t fantastic in the IEM, 3.5h as you said, but for my uses, and a lot of people I feel, that’s not too big an issue. The good thing is that the case does quite a little bit in terms of reserve power.

Connectivity is actually really pretty solid, no issues there for me.

In terms of the sound. As I mentioned, you need to get the right tips. The thing about many of theses cheaper earphones is that they tend to come with pretty crappy sounding tips. And a quick swap to the right tips make a massive difference.

With the right tips (spiral dot) the bass remains boosted, but the tone across the spectrum is balanced out. A boosted bass isn’t always a bad thing especially when used outdoors.


----------



## chinmie

Firevortex said:


> @webvan i used some generic tips that came with my Sony xzp. you can see from the photo its more rounded and taller than the largest Jabra tip next to it. the Jabra tip was hurting my ear for prolong use especially when i tap it for different functions.
> the Havit G1s are on special at Joybuy atm if ppl are interested in trying.



do you use adapter for that eartips or do they just fit perfectly? i tried most of my eartips but it seems they fit rather loose on the Jabra


----------



## Firevortex (Oct 20, 2018)

WCDchee said:


> In terms of the sound. As I mentioned, you need to get the right tips. The thing about many of theses cheaper earphones is that they tend to come with pretty crappy sounding tips. And a quick swap to the right tips make a massive difference.
> 
> With the right tips (spiral dot) the bass remains boosted, but the tone across the spectrum is balanced out. A boosted bass isn’t always a bad thing especially when used outdoors.



Does the spiral dot fit on the jabra or are they a bigger profile? i'm interested in getting them but only see single size models online like 6xM 6xL etc... know where you can get S,M,L in a single package?

been using the jabras every day for the past week. now i got some time to sit and enjoy my main rig. oh boy....it reminded me what music fidelity is lol maybe i should just buy a Airpod for calls and be happy with it.

@chinmie they fit tight enough when removing the jabras they come out too. Jabra's seem to have a smaller tip. proper IEM tips might not fit them well.


----------



## SilverEars (Oct 20, 2018)

webvan said:


> I have yet to find an IEM with ANC that has great passive isolation (not even sure they exist honestly...possibly for a reason) but in my experience with IEMs with ANC once you turn on ANC you achieve about the same noise reduction in the bass department as with IEMs with great passive isolation...without having to ram them down your ear canal, which is a big bonus for some people. However it can't make it up for higher pitched and "quick sounds" as david8613 put it yesterday, here's where we were discussing that yesterday https://www.head-fi.org/threads/goi...are-we-there-yet.861024/page-89#post-14545970 with Rtings isolation comparison.
> 
> A few weeks ago while in a noisy car I did put on ANC headphones over the Jabra Elite Sport and it did help. Will try the same thing in a plane next week  Actually I might take some 3M Peltor Optime I "headphones" too !


I'd be more interested in a comparison between something like Sony 1000XM3 vs ER4 (triple flanges deep insertion) or a custom iem in noise reduction.  I know the ANC is limited to lower frequencies, and you can still hear the PA system well enough in a higher pitch without the lower body.  I'm sure the exteme isolation iems isolates the high frequencies as well.

I have tried Fiio FH5 iem inside the XM3 (with ANC on), and in such a high noise situation in an airplane, it makes it huge difference from universal tip iem.  Even a normal iem doesn't isolate enough in an airplane noise environment.  ER4 and custom iems are well above this normal isolation level.  Could be comparable to full-sized ANC.

I'm interested in trying out the 3M for noise isolation, but unfortunately, I wear glasses.  27dB reduction is a lot!  Still, I measured airplane noise to be 80dB!

As far as wireless reliability.  In certain circumstance, the Sony 1000XM3's connection broke apart, and got really staticky with LDAC 990 kbps active.  I will wait a bit longer for higher bandwidth stability.


----------



## david8613

Saw these sonys they are coming out soon, but not in the USA, . Sony finally added volume controls YAY! Completely waterproof, the only negative is it's still 3 hours run time, case looks bigger they should have longer run time.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Sony-WF-SP900-Wireless-Headphones-Waterproof-White/dp/B07GF


----------



## clerkpalmer

david8613 said:


> Saw these sonys they are coming out soon, but not in the USA, . Sony finally added volume controls YAY! Completely waterproof, the only negative is it's still 3 hours run time, case looks bigger they should have longer run time.
> 
> https://www.amazon.co.uk/Sony-WF-SP900-Wireless-Headphones-Waterproof-White/dp/B07GF


Is there any detail on whether the audio components are upgraded? Or are these just a waterproof sp700 with a MP3 player?


----------



## albau

Jabara 65t Elite review on Engadget. They deem them the best value for the buck in pure wireless. https://www.engadget.com/2018/10/18/most-versatile-headphones-jabra-elite-65t/


----------



## webvan

Having paid 111€ for mine I can't argue with the "value for the buck"...the problem is that I can't walk, much less run, with them without the "thumping" in my ear canals, am I the only to have that issue ? I've seen reviews where it was mentioned but few users seem to complain 

@SilverEars - I've done headphone+ANC (Bose QC15 at the time) vs IEM comparisons in the past using my Klipsch S4 with double-flange tips that provide perfect isolation (and the pressure in the canal isn't too bad with the tiny tips of the S4) and the result was really close, the Bose did very slightly better for deep bass sounds and not as well for higher pitched sounds, voices for instance. Having said that they were a lot more comfortable over time and you could just have them on to cut out the noise and relax.


----------



## nc8000

webvan said:


> Having paid 111€ for mine I can't argue with the "value for the buck"...the problem is that I can't walk, much less run, with them without the "thumping" in my ear canals, am I the only to have that issue ? I've seen reviews where it was mentioned but few users seem to complain
> 
> @SilverEars - I've done headphone+ANC (Bose QC15 at the time) vs IEM comparisons in the past using my Klipsch S4 with double-flange tips that provide perfect isolation (and the pressure in the canal isn't too bad with the tiny tips of the S4) and the result was really close, the Bose did very slightly better for deep bass sounds and not as well for higher pitched sounds, voices for instance. Having said that they were a lot more comfortable over time and you could just have them on to cut out the noise and relax.



The thumping you will get with virtually all proper sealing iem’s and really has nothing to do with the individual make but rather the fact that they seal


----------



## 500178

I use the Samsung Gear IconX and the B&O Hi9.


----------



## webvan

nc8000 said:


> The thumping you will get with virtually all proper sealing iem’s and really has nothing to do with the individual make but rather the fact that they seal



Ah, thanks for confirming it's not just voices in my head then  I'm still a bit baffled at how people can run with the 65t's then because it is really distracting, unless of course they don't have a good seal in the first place. I wonder if using Comply foam wouldn't help, keeping the seal but possibly letting some air leave the canal and avoid the "thumping". With the foam tips of the Jabra Elite Sport (that seem "denser" than Comply foam) walking isn't a problem, running is though.


----------



## webvan

albau said:


> Jabara 65t Elite review on Engadget. They deem them the best value for the buck in pure wireless. https://www.engadget.com/2018/10/18/most-versatile-headphones-jabra-elite-65t/


Interesting "hands on" review, I wonder which foam tips he found to be compatible with the 65t. I tried the old Comply "Truly Wireless" tips but they're tiny and don't seal my ear canal at all.


----------



## david8613

taylor said:


> I just got the Jabras. Sound is good to me. Isolation is on par with regular IEMs. I was surprised with how secure the fit was, and very impressed with connection quality. From an ease of use perspective they were great, take them out of the case and they turn themselves on and pair. Totally seamless.
> 
> There are only two things I don't like - they don't have ANC, which I didn't realize when I bought them. And they have a ~1/4 second latency with video from certain sources. On my TV it was noticeable but didn't really bother me. On my phone it was better.
> 
> I'm debating returning them for one of the two Sony models, either the WF1000X or SP700N. 75% of the time that I use these, I'm going to have a fan on in the room, and if they truly do cancel out fan noise like was stated previously, that's a game changer.




Honestly you should buy both. I have a few sets of two and i rotate them. There is no perfect true wireless iems yet. The jabras, Sonys and samsungs all have strengths and weaknesses but those 3 get awfully close though.


----------



## chinmie

i wish someone make make something like the PSB TW1, but only the dongle parts, and use mmcx/2pin so that we can use any iems/earbuds that we already have.it would be a more convenient solution compared to using something like the Fiio BTR or Radsone ES100


----------



## david8613

clerkpalmer said:


> Is there any detail on whether the audio components are upgraded? Or are these just a waterproof sp700 with a MP3 player?



See specs below for sp900. Not sure but I think this might be the first truewireless with balanced armatures. This maybe why sony could not make it longer lasting in the battery department, but I'm no expert in this. The case looks better, USB-C, volume control, on board memory, completely water proof, sony sound I'm in! Are these coming to the U.S.?

https://www.sony.co.uk/electronics/truly-wireless/wf-sp900/specifications


----------



## clerkpalmer

Good find on the audio. Looks like an upgrade on the already very good sounding sp700. US does not appear in the mix for these?


----------



## alee

My RHA TrueConnects are here.  My first impressions are fairly good from a sound standpoint, although I haven't done any critical listening yet. Fit is excellent, and rests securely in my ears. 

No "ear detection" is problematic - the music keeps going instead of pausing like all my other IEMs. There are also some fairly questionable decisions on button functions (e.g. 2 taps on the right for vol up, 3 taps on the right for vol down... who decided this is a good idea?).  Case is awfully big as well (vs. AirPods or my B&O E8 IEMs).

Much to like and much that bothers me right now. It's definitely not a home run... sigh. Let's see what I tend to reach for over the next few weeks... E8 or TrueConnect. Guess I'll keep my hopes up for the forthcoming Sennheiser IEMs.


----------



## clerkpalmer

alee said:


> My RHA TrueConnects are here.  My first impressions are fairly good from a sound standpoint, although I haven't done any critical listening yet. Fit is excellent, and rests securely in my ears.
> 
> No "ear detection" is problematic - the music keeps going instead of pausing like all my other IEMs. There are also some fairly questionable decisions on button functions (e.g. 2 taps on the right for vol up, 3 taps on the right for vol down... who decided this is a good idea?).  Case is awfully big as well (vs. AirPods or my B&O E8 IEMs).
> 
> Much to like and much that bothers me right now. It's definitely not a home run... sigh. Let's see what I tend to reach for over the next few weeks... E8 or TrueConnect. Guess I'll keep my hopes up for the forthcoming Sennheiser IEMs.



Would be interested in your thoughts on sq compared to the e8. Lack of aac still holding me on the fence.


----------



## Firevortex

alee said:


> There are also some fairly questionable decisions on button functions (e.g. 2 taps on the right for vol up, 3 taps on the right for vol down... who decided this is a good idea?).



let me get this right...you'll have to tap 9 times just to get the volume down 3 steps etc...??


----------



## SomeGuyDude

clerkpalmer said:


> Is there any detail on whether the audio components are upgraded? Or are these just a waterproof sp700 with a MP3 player?



Someone earlier said they're BA drivers instead of DD? Very curious, though. I love  my Sony for gym only but they're definitely not "general use" by any stretch of the imagination.


----------



## clerkpalmer

Off topic a bit but can anyone recommend a good set of "wired" BT headphones for times when I want better SQ than TW is currently offering?  Must for me would be some level of sweat resistance.  I've tried the MA750 wireless and VModa neckband.  Both have great SQ but neither are really suitable for the gym.


----------



## SilverEars (Oct 21, 2018)

clerkpalmer said:


> Off topic a bit but can anyone recommend a good set of "wired" BT headphones for times when I want better SQ than TW is currently offering?  Must for me would be some level of sweat resistance.  I've tried the MA750 wireless and VModa neckband.  Both have great SQ but neither are really suitable for the gym.


BeatsX, it's well balanced, but can't be certain if it's better than a Jabra.  No harsh highs and linear bass than what you expect from Beats.  Can be had for $100 or less I think. Connection stability and of course the 7-8 hr battery life combines to be a big draw.  Only problem is, it's not rated for water resistance or proof, but I don't forsee sweat getting on it to a degree to require it, but you might have to watch it in the rain (there is a large opening charge connection they should have sealed off).  Believe me, I tried the cheap lower end stuff and realized, they weren't worth it due to treble peaks, mids incoherency, or bass bloat.


----------



## clerkpalmer

SilverEars said:


> BeatsX, it's well balanced, but can't be certain if it's better than a Jabra.  No harsh highs and linear bass than what you expect from Beats.  Can be had for $100 or less I think. Connection stability and of course the 7-8 hr battery life combines to be a big draw.  Only problem is, it's not rated for water resistance or proof, but I don't forsee sweat getting on it to a degree to require it, but you'd have to protect it in the rain.  Believe me, I tried the cheap lower end stuff and realized, they weren't worth it due to treble peaks, mids incoherency, or bass bloat.


Completely agree on the cheap stuff. Beats x are pretty decent. I had a pair when they first came out. Might put them on my list particularly since I’m using an iPhone these days. Maybe an upgraded version this week? Keep the suggestions coming!


----------



## webvan

Firevortex said:


> I'll definitely try out the LIVEIQ with ANC from nuheara when it's out in a month or so.



Yes that seems to be the one to look forward to for something "new" in the TWE area. I hope the pricing won't be through the roof like their current model that is likely priced high because of the "hearing aid" aspects. 

In the meantime I'm going to be enjoying the 65t that check all the boxes...except if I'm moving around, due to their excellent isolation and resulting "thumping" of the air compressed in the ear canal. 

Will see if the Comfort Complys I have coming in tomorrow will help with that. Someone mentioned on another forum that activating HearThrough helped with that problem but it puts such a hit on the SQ that it's not very appealing.


----------



## SilverEars (Oct 21, 2018)

I heard the Nuheara IQbuds Boost thinking perhaps it adapts the frequency response based on it's hearing test.  Nope.  I think it's for ambient sound pass-through mode.  It is marketed as an hearing aid as well.  As far as sound, I expected more from this high priced earphone, but the sound was pretty shrill like, and not smooth. It didn't sound largely peaky, but in a way I suspect it has the wiggle type response like you see on Bose QC 35, which creates a shrill type treble sound.  It's not pleasant sounding although not like an iem with a large peak up to or bloated bass.

I will be holding out for better codecs (BT 5.0 LDAC 990 kbps, not the 660 or 330 LDAC, or a better one that comes along), connection stability, and battery life with a form factor of IconX.  I liked the look and fit of those the best, but not the connection stability.


----------



## ri_toast

clerkpalmer said:


> Off topic a bit but can anyone recommend a good set of "wired" BT headphones for times when I want better SQ than TW is currently offering?  Must for me would be some level of sweat resistance.  I've tried the MA750 wireless and VModa neckband.  Both have great SQ but neither are really suitable for the gym.


**** TRN BT3 Wireless available in a number of connection types. I have them with mmcx for some shure 535s. functionally bt but no bells and whistles. the neck wrap is memory vinal, stays exactly where you put it. large buttons on one side +,- and pause/restart. battery life is good, aptx, keeps the phone unlocked as a trusted device.

and now back to (once again) true wireless.


----------



## alee

Firevortex said:


> let me get this right...you'll have to tap 9 times just to get the volume down 3 steps etc...??


Yes... this part was definitely not well thought out https://imgur.com/oV9MobT


----------



## mikp

Any more news on the LiveIQ, like codecs?

Got the jabra 65, so a upgrade has to have all its functions + apt-x (minimum) and better sound (louder)

The hearthrough function is very good on the 65t, I can have it on full and listening to music for a 2 hour walk without it being distracting.

Tried another set with the same function, but the outside sound was very bad and tinny.


----------



## alee

clerkpalmer said:


> Would be interested in your thoughts on sq compared to the e8. Lack of aac still holding me on the fence.


I personally don't believe you can hear the difference in practice at my age (44 yrs old). Certainly not in an environment where you're outside, moving around, in the gym, etc. In my living room, there are definitely areas where the highs sound a little compressed (e.g. cymbal crashes). Is it a deal-breaker? That depends on what you're looking for I guess and where you intend on doing the bulk of your listening.

The E8s are a bit heavier on the low end, and the TrueConnects are brighter, but they're not broken in yet. Neither are going to be bass hit monsters.

The TrueConnects get a hair louder than the E8 which I do think is noticeable.


----------



## clerkpalmer

alee said:


> I personally don't believe you can hear the difference in practice at my age (44 yrs old). Certainly not in an environment where you're outside, moving around, in the gym, etc. In my living room, there are definitely areas where the highs sound a little compressed (e.g. cymbal crashes). Is it a deal-breaker? That depends on what you're looking for I guess and where you intend on doing the bulk of your listening.
> 
> The E8s are a bit heavier on the low end, and the TrueConnects are brighter, but they're not broken in yet. Neither are going to be bass hit monsters.
> 
> The TrueConnects get a hair louder than the E8 which I do think is noticeable.



Ha well I’m 43 with tinnitus. Thanks for the impressions. How is the fit? I have trouble without stabilizers or fins. The e8 did not stay out for me. Brighter doesn’t bother me one bit.


----------



## alee

clerkpalmer said:


> Ha well I’m 43 with tinnitus. Thanks for the impressions. How is the fit? I have trouble without stabilizers or fins. The e8 did not stay out for me. Brighter doesn’t bother me one bit.


I haven't felt the need to adjust them yet, but I'm a fairly easy fit -- the E8s were also secure, but I am using comply foam tips for those.


----------



## bjornw (Oct 21, 2018)

clerkpalmer said:


> Completely agree on the cheap stuff. Beats x are pretty decent. I had a pair when they first came out. Might put them on my list particularly since I’m using an iPhone these days. Maybe an upgraded version this week? Keep the suggestions coming!



The B&O E6 has by far the best SQ I’ve heard in any wireless iem. If it wasn’t for one thing... the nylon neck chord makes horrible, horrible noise as it grinds against the neck, or even worse, the shirt. It’s about 10 times worse than on any wired iem I’ve owned. It is a mind boggling design flaw. Really a pity, since I love the sound signature with crisp and clear mids and highs and a controlled base. I want my mids to really come through.

Returned the E6’s and ordered the RHA trueconnect, but from the comments so far, it looks like it is going to be another return .
Perhaps it will have to be the 65t for now as a compromise.

But if you sit completely still and don’t move an inch, the E6’s are great .


----------



## clerkpalmer

The H5 sounded great but the fit sucked. Looks like the E6 May fit more securely but that cable is a nonstarter plus 299 is insane. I’m leaning to the 65t as well. The active are on eBay right now manufacture refurbished for 130.


----------



## bjornw

clerkpalmer said:


> The H5 sounded great but the fit sucked. Looks like the E6 May fit more securely but that cable is a nonstarter plus 299 is insane. I’m leaning to the 65t as well. The active are on eBay right now manufacture refurbished for 130.



As far as I could tell, the fit is exactly the same. Both came with silicone wings. With the H5 you had to remove the wings (and therefore the tips) in order to charge, which was another huge design flaw. At least the sorted that out with E6. But the cable noise, the cable noise?! Why?

As for the price, I am willing to pay that for something I’d use several hours every day, if the SQ is as good and the fit is at least decent.


----------



## clerkpalmer

bjornw said:


> As for the price, I am willing to pay that for something I’d use several hours every day, if the SQ is as good and the fit is at least decent.



Me too. So is the cable a deal breaker in your opinion? I don't remember the fins on the h5. Maybe the added them later? I got mine right at launch.


----------



## SilverEars

alee said:


> My RHA TrueConnects are here.  My first impressions are fairly good from a sound standpoint, although I haven't done any critical listening yet. Fit is excellent, and rests securely in my ears.
> 
> No "ear detection" is problematic - the music keeps going instead of pausing like all my other IEMs. There are also some fairly questionable decisions on button functions (e.g. 2 taps on the right for vol up, 3 taps on the right for vol down... who decided this is a good idea?).  Case is awfully big as well (vs. AirPods or my B&O E8 IEMs).
> 
> Much to like and much that bothers me right now. It's definitely not a home run... sigh. Let's see what I tend to reach for over the next few weeks... E8 or TrueConnect. Guess I'll keep my hopes up for the forthcoming Sennheiser IEMs.


Looked up what codec it supports, and I saw SBC only.  No AAC?  I think the True Wireless are bandwidth limited, and max they can support is AAC or AptX.  I've only used full-sized Sony 1000XM3 with LDAC 990 kbps, but I don't think I've ever run into even wired BT iem with LDAC codec.  

Given the amount of space for touch for such a small device, it makes sense how IconX was handled volume and FF and RW with the swiping or the Jabra with the buttons.


----------



## clerkpalmer

Yes no AAC or aptx per rha. Rbh sound makes ldac bt iems but reviews are mediocre on sound and ergonomics.


----------



## bjornw

alee said:


> I haven't felt the need to adjust them yet, but I'm a fairly easy fit -- the E8s were also secure, but I am using comply foam tips for those.



How do you rate the E8’s? I’ve read so many reviews complaining about the bad connectivity and clipping. But I am still tempted to try since I love B&O’s sound signature in general.


----------



## alee

bjornw said:


> How do you rate the E8’s? I’ve read so many reviews complaining about the bad connectivity and clipping. But I am still tempted to try since I love B&O’s sound signature in general.


I've never had an issue with connectivity, short of some intersections here in NYC where if I turn my head too far to the right, I'll lose the left ear connectivity. It's rare but it's typically the same locations I can get AirPods to stutter. There have also been a few firmware updates which have helped the dropping -- B&O has done a fairly solid job of supporting these, even if they are imperfect. Only major complaint was I wish I could go maybe 1 additional notch up on volume. 

Transparency mode is fantastic and something we need to see more true wireless IEMs do.

The E8s are mediocre for calls, but overall I am extremely fond of them and they sound great. If they had BT5, and some better call audio, I think I would stick with them. The forthcoming Sennheiser Momentum fully wireless IEMs may be the ones that finally beat the E8 for me.


----------



## SilverEars (Oct 21, 2018)

I can share some general issues with BT connectivity.

When I had my phone in my pocket and blocked the signal path completely with my body, it would drop out.

If I used high bit rate 990 kbps LDAC, signal would fade and get staticky in crowded area with perhaps signal interferences?  This is probably why the phone is fixed to adaptive instead of under developer's options for audio quality (990 kbps).

So currently, lower bit rate is most stable.


----------



## bjornw

clerkpalmer said:


> Me too. So is the cable a deal breaker in your opinion? I don't remember the fins on the h5. Maybe the added them later? I got mine right at launch.



I got the fins with mine, but yeah might have been added later which would explain why they need to be removed when charging.

The cable noise really is a deal breaker. It’s ok when you’re out walking since there will be some ambiance anyway. But listening in a quiet environment and that noise will annoy the crap out of you. For two weeks I tried to convince myself it wasn’ that bad. But it really is, so I returned them.


----------



## nc8000

bjornw said:


> How do you rate the E8’s? I’ve read so many reviews complaining about the bad connectivity and clipping. But I am still tempted to try since I love B&O’s sound signature in general.



I get random very short left unit cut outs but not bad enough to really bother me. No problems with clipping and sq is perfectly acceptable for on the go use. The micorphone is mediocre at best for phone calls but I mostly just use them for listening.


----------



## bjornw

nc8000 said:


> I get random very short left unit cut outs but not bad enough to really bother me. No problems with clipping and sq is perfectly acceptable for on the go use. The micorphone is mediocre at best for phone calls but I mostly just use them for listening.



Perhaps I’ll give them a shot then. Question is if they are 110 euro better than the new RHA’s...


----------



## webvan

SilverEars said:


> BeatsX, it's well balanced, but can't be certain if it's better than a Jabra.  No harsh highs and linear bass than what you expect from Beats.  Can be had for $100 or less I think. Connection stability and of course the 7-8 hr battery life combines to be a big draw.  Only problem is, it's not rated for water resistance or proof, but I don't forsee sweat getting on it to a degree to require it, but you might have to watch it in the rain (there is a large opening charge connection they should have sealed off).  Believe me, *I tried the cheap lower end stuff *and realized, they weren't worth it due to treble peaks, mids incoherency, or bass bloat.



Not sure it qualifies but we got a pretty decent endorsement for the Havit G1 a couple of pages ago, it's not completely "lower end" pricewise though at 60$.


----------



## SilverEars (Oct 21, 2018)

webvan said:


> Not sure it qualifies but we got a pretty decent endorsement for the Havit G1 a couple of pages ago, it's not completely "lower end" pricewise though at 60$.


It's better priced than the BeatsX, it's true wireless, has AAC (BT 5.0), and waterproof. Enticing, but don't know about reliability with the brand. Sounds like a good contender if it can compete in sound quality of BeatsX or Jabra.  I would probably go with it, if the sound quality is comparable.

For the spec, I think the price is pretty good compared to competition, and if SQ is good, very good value.  I like the visual design.


----------



## SilverEars

I've looked at the reviews for Havit, and it sounds like microphone sucks, but no av lag?!  I want to know how good is mids coherency and does it have treble peaks or sound treble heavy?  Is the treble smooth with coherent mids at the same time?


----------



## nc8000

SilverEars said:


> I've looked at the reviews for Havit, and it sounds like microphone sucks, but no av lag?!  I want to know how good is mids coherency and does it have treble peaks or sound treble heavy?  Is the treble smooth with coherent mids at the same time?



I’ve just ordered the Havit so will have it within the next 2-4 weeks and compare to the Beoplay E8


----------



## Firevortex (Oct 21, 2018)

webvan said:


> Yes that seems to be the one to look forward to for something "new" in the TWE area. I hope the pricing won't be through the roof like their current model that is likely priced high because of the "hearing aid" aspects.
> 
> In the meantime I'm going to be enjoying the 65t that check all the boxes...except if I'm moving around, due to their excellent isolation and resulting "thumping" of the air compressed in the ear canal.
> 
> Will see if the Comfort Complys I have coming in tomorrow will help with that. Someone mentioned on another forum that activating HearThrough helped with that problem but it puts such a hit on the SQ that it's not very appealing.



they are priced at $200 so it's around the 65t price point. i mainly want the ANC side of things. upon researching further on release date and their manufacturer, it seems the ANC unit is done by ams AG. claiming 30db of noise cancelling using 3 mics, is pretty impressive.
https://www.nuheara.com/nuheara-partners-global-semiconductor-manufacturer-ams-ag-launch-liveiq/
their Australian stock exchange announcement to investors said they are on track to release the liveIQ . so hopefully next month?

with some time on my hands on the weekend i've done more tweaking on my 65t and managed to get the best sound to be comparable to my soundpeats. the tips i used previously was too tall to fit in the charger so i pulled out the soundpeat tips and modded it so it fits securely on the 65t which was too lose before.
i wrap the connector tube part was some tape and that made the connection to the 65t tight without falling off when i take out the earbuds or in the charger. those tips improved the sound further. i suspect the Jabra tips are super cheap. they're kinda thin see through rubber, the same type that came with the cheap earbuds from sony phones (see photo).

*i highly recommend those people with 65ts to try better tips. even if you feel you've got a decent fit it improved the sound from poo to decent. *

the soundpeat tips are harder rubber more dense with shorter/wider profile than the sony's i was using. the best part is they fit in the charger 


















Here are the jabra EQ settings that seems to work the best for tracks with vocals in it. things don't sound as muddy.







This is the frequency response graph from RTing, so what i hear from the EQ above makes sense.

https://www.rtings.com/headphones/1-2/graph#612/2031


----------



## chinmie

Firevortex said:


> they are priced at $200 so it's around the 65t price point. i mainly want the ANC side of things. upon researching further on release date and their manufacturer, it seems the ANC unit is done by ams AG. claiming 30db of noise cancelling using 3 mics, is pretty impressive.
> https://www.nuheara.com/nuheara-partners-global-semiconductor-manufacturer-ams-ag-launch-liveiq/
> their Australian stock exchange announcement to investors said they are on track to release the liveIQ . so hopefully next month?
> 
> ...




 

interesting, we use almost similar curve on the EQ! 

i have been using the jabra for this last few days, it still hurts on my right ears after long use, but not as much as the first day..it also aeems to loose seal less frequently. might be my ears deformed 

i wish they tweak the stereo spread a little wider, then this could stand toe to toe against the WF-1000X in terms of sound


----------



## Firevortex

chinmie said:


> interesting, we use almost similar curve on the EQ!
> 
> i have been using the jabra for this last few days, it still hurts on my right ears after long use, but not as much as the first day..it also aeems to loose seal less frequently. might be my ears deformed
> 
> i wish they tweak the stereo spread a little wider, then this could stand toe to toe against the WF-1000X in terms of sound



 it proves i'm not deaf in regards to EQ balancing... i have Poweramp app to slightly tweak the EQ further. what tips are you using?


----------



## chinmie

Firevortex said:


> it proves i'm not deaf in regards to EQ balancing... i have Poweramp app to slightly tweak the EQ further. what tips are you using?



sadly I'm still stuck with the stock eartips..I'll definitely going to try your solution to use other eartips.

also, has anyone ever use the 65t loosely like the airpod? i was listening music with the 65t, and i seemed to have annoyed my son because he calls multiple times and i can hear him. even with ambient mode i can hear him, calling, but i can't make out what he was saying if the music is playing.

so i made an EQ preset using the commute tab to use the 65t loose

 


of course this is not perfect as i wish i can cut the mids more, but this can work in a pinch. also this would require a lot louder volume, so it will drain the battery more


----------



## webvan

Not sure how you would wear them "loosely" ? With smaller tips that don't seal as well ?

@Firevortex - thanks for sharing your tip. I don't have Soundpeats but I think they also go by the name of TaoTronics that I do own and the tips look similar. I can't find a way of making them fit the 65ts tightly though and I'm not sure how putting tape on the outside of the tip as seen on your last picture would help ? Maybe on the nozzle of the 65t directly ? As for the stock tips being thin I think that's probably better as they will "react" better to the sound. If anything it's probably more expensive to manufacture these rather than thicker tips like those of the Soundpeat. Having said that if it works better for you that's the main thing !

@SilverEars - I've seen reviews were the Havits were criticized for the lag while watching videos. Apparently it was claimed the new version (the one now available for purchase) improved on this problem of the V1 (grey model) but it wasn't the case for everyone for some reason.


----------



## Firevortex (Oct 22, 2018)

@webvan - does your tip go on the jabra but its quite lose or do they not go on at all? mine went on but it was really lose; i could easily pull them out with a tap. the tape act as a choke so when the jabras go into the rubber tube it doesn't expand out, which in turn makes it tight.

most of the more expensive aftermarket tips are made of thicker materials or the tube is extra thick/firm. i know spiral dot is thick with foam outside a silicon layer. anyway, those tips made the bass tighter. I've ordered spiral dot will see how they performs


----------



## chinmie

webvan said:


> Not sure how you would wear them "loosely" ? With smaller tips that don't seal as well



just wear it a bit farther, as long as it doesn't make a full/solid full seal. just don't jump around or running using it like this though , strictly just to hear other people talking in the office or at home


----------



## webvan

Firevortex said:


> @webvan - does your tip go on the jabra but its quite lose or do they not go on at all? mine went on but it was really lose; i could easily pull them out with a tap. the tape act as a choke so when the jabras go into the rubber tube it doesn't expand out, which in turn makes it tight.
> 
> most of the more expensive aftermarket tips are made of thicker materials or the tube is extra thick/firm. i know spiral dot is thick with foam outside a silicon layer. anyway, those tips made the bass tighter. I've ordered spiral dot will see how they performs


The go on but they are lose indeed, I'll try some tape, but they don't go in deep at all so I'm not sure it would provide enough grip.

I've heard a lot about the Spiral Dots but haven't tried them. I did get some SpinFits that get rave reviews but haven't found them to be usable with the 65Ts. They stick out too far and block the audio and of course don't work with the charging box. I'm expecting some Comply TS200 Comfort (the olive shaped ones) today and I've read that they work with the 65Ts (at least for some people) and can even work with the charger.TS2


----------



## chinmie (Oct 22, 2018)

i think i got my prayer answered. TRN are developing this kind of bluetooth dongle to be used with any detachable iem. can't wait for it to come out

edit:i don't know if this a real product or not, and i can't confirm this rumor yet, as i found this picture on my local music forum...it woukd be nice if it were true though


----------



## sly_in_the_sky (Oct 22, 2018)

Incredible... Several days ago, I also wondered  if someone would have or already had this idea....


----------



## webvan

webvan said:


> The go on but they are lose indeed, I'll try some tape, but they don't go in deep at all so I'm not sure it would provide enough grip.
> 
> I've heard a lot about the Spiral Dots but haven't tried them. I did get some SpinFits that get rave reviews but haven't found them to be usable with the 65Ts. They stick out too far and block the audio and of course don't work with the charging box. I'm expecting some Comply TS200 Comfort (the olive shaped ones) today and I've read that they work with the 65Ts (at least for some people) and can even work with the charger.TS2



So the Comply Tsx 200 have arrived and they're a complete bust on the 65t, they don't fit at all ! Not sure how people are making them work...or maybe you need the Smartcore version that can expand and go down the nozzle as opposed to just fit on the tip ? On the other hand they work fine with the Jabra Elite Sport providing fantastic isolation...at the expense of the highs though that have become very muted while the bass have been upped. I removed the so-called "sweat guard" and it helped quite a bit but they still sound "duller" than with the stock Jabra Foams that don't isolate as well. I guess you can't have everything ! Talking of which the JES don't fit in the case anymore with these tips so they have to be removed, a bit of an inconvenience.


----------



## david8613

here goes another set having balanced armature, like the newer sonys coming soon. these look pretty cool!

https://www.yevolabs.com/collections/frontpage/products/yevo-1-ivory-white


----------



## albau

david8613 said:


> here goes another set having balanced armature, like the newer sonys coming soon. these look pretty cool!
> 
> https://www.yevolabs.com/collections/frontpage/products/yevo-1-ivory-white


Nah, BT 4.1, SBC only. At least they have volume control and look spiffy. But for the price?


----------



## holyindian

I am in the market for a wireless iem, and i have been reading this thread right from page one, and reached until page 15, then i realized... the post was created about a year and half back, and surely by now there are newer players in the market, hence i hopped back here towards the thread end, but feel lost. So I am open to spend under 1000 usd, what can i drop my money on?


----------



## Sharkhunter

holyindian said:


> I am in the market for a wireless iem, and i have been reading this thread right from page one, and reached until page 15, then i realized... the post was created about a year and half back, and surely by now there are newer players in the market, hence i hopped back here towards the thread end, but feel lost. So I am open to spend under 1000 usd, what can i drop my money on?



You can start with BO E8 (which i have listed for sale here) or you can try preordering Sennheiser momentum true wireless which will start shipping mid of November.


----------



## holyindian

Sharkhunter said:


> You can start with BO E8 (which i have listed for sale here) or you can try preordering Sennheiser momentum true wireless which will start shipping mid of November.



Thanks for your replies. I have tried the BO E8 at my gym (someone was having it on). I found them very uncomfortable... and even the guy said, he would be replacing the buds. So is the the link for the senn's iem you are talking about?
https://en-us.sennheiser.com/momentum-truewireless

Any other suggestions?


----------



## MIBUK

Have you looked Earin M-2? They’re very small and stay in my ears when I’m on the treadmill. They have a 20% rebate until 24th Oct & free 14 day return. Worth a try imho.


----------



## holyindian

MIBUK said:


> Have you looked Earin M-2? They’re very small and stay in my ears when I’m on the treadmill. They have a 20% rebate until 24th Oct & free 14 day return. Worth a try imho.


Cool let me look into that. thanks for the suggestions.
You like the sound?


----------



## joshnor713

holyindian said:


> Cool let me look into that. thanks for the suggestions.
> You like the sound?



Just chiming in since I heard the M-2. Just listened a few minutes, but enough to say not great sound quality. Sounded muddy to me. Better options out there.


----------



## SilverEars (Oct 22, 2018)

holyindian said:


> Thanks for your replies. I have tried the BO E8 at my gym (someone was having it on). I found them very uncomfortable... and even the guy said, he would be replacing the buds. So is the the link for the senn's iem you are talking about?
> https://en-us.sennheiser.com/momentum-truewireless
> 
> Any other suggestions?


If you've been following the thread, Jabra Elite Active would be one to go for.  Of the ones I've tried it had the best SQ for true wireless.  I found BO E8 to have a peak in the treble, not smooth as Jabra.  Jabra maybe have slight issue with fit for some.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

Jabra 65t is pretty much the go-to for TWE, and I really feel like that's the set to gun for and any qualms you have with those will explain if there's something more for your tastes.


----------



## jrm27

SomeGuyDude said:


> Jabra 65t is pretty much the go-to for TWE, and I really feel like that's the set to gun for and any qualms you have with those will explain if there's something more for your tastes.



This seems to be the case. I've been watching this thread for a long time and it seems that everything comes back to the Jabra. They may not be the best, but they seem to make most people happy. These seem like a baseline that people turn to until the next thing comes out. I'm super interested in the Sennheisers, but at that price point, I'd likely have to pass. For me, the decision is coming down to Jabras and the Samsun Gear Icon X, but with a heavy bias toward the Jabras from what I've read here.


----------



## Hoplite

There is still Audio Technica that's coming out soon (The Audio-Technica ATH-Sport7KW and ATH-CKR7TW).
So is Jabra 65t better than RHA True Connect? Jabra is slightly more expensive but still under $200.


----------



## chinmie

SilverEars said:


> If you've been following the thread, Jabra Elite Active would be one to go for.  Of the ones I've tried it had the best SQ for true wireless.  I found BO E8 to have a peak in the treble, not smooth as Jabra.  Jabra maybe have slight issue with fit for some.



between the 65t and the wf-1000x, i much prefer the latter for SQ and fit, while i prefer the former for battery life, size, and call quality. if only the 65t have a more rubbery contact surface and accepts standard eartips, it would be golden. i love them both that i'm beginning to use my wired earphones less and less


----------



## howdy

Doesn't anyone have any love for the Jaybird Run? I think they sound really good and with very little issues. Fairly comfortable as well.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

jrm27 said:


> This seems to be the case. I've been watching this thread for a long time and it seems that everything comes back to the Jabra. They may not be the best, but they seem to make most people happy. These seem like a baseline that people turn to until the next thing comes out. I'm super interested in the Sennheisers, but at that price point, I'd likely have to pass. For me, the decision is coming down to Jabras and the Samsun Gear Icon X, but with a heavy bias toward the Jabras from what I've read here.



I personally use the sp700n for the gym but the Jabra make a good launching-off point. Sorta like how one's impression of the HD650 makes a good indicator of where to go after that.


----------



## Firevortex

holyindian said:


> Thanks for your replies. I have tried the BO E8 at my gym (someone was having it on). I found them very uncomfortable... and even the guy said, he would be replacing the buds. So is the the link for the senn's iem you are talking about?
> https://en-us.sennheiser.com/momentum-truewireless
> 
> Any other suggestions?



if you got that much to spend and can wait a little, see how the Sennheiser and Audio Technica sound. i wouldn't jump in on the Jabras or E8s just yet. they might be the top pick for TWE atm but the SQ is still not there yet.


----------



## david8613

This is a cool idea.

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/decibullz/black-diamond-custom-molded-true-wireless-earphone


----------



## holyindian

Firevortex said:


> if you got that much to spend and can wait a little, see how the Sennheiser and Audio Technica sound. i wouldn't jump in on the Jabras or E8s just yet. they might be the top pick for TWE atm but the SQ is still not there yet.


Fully agree wtih you bro. I might as well wait for another month or so.. until these two iems are out.


----------



## james444

MIBUK said:


> Have you looked Earin M-2? They’re very small and stay in my ears when I’m on the treadmill. They have a 20% rebate until 24th Oct & free 14 day return. Worth a try imho.



I've tried the Earin M-2 for a few days. Overall pretty decent connection and sound quality, despite their diminutive size.

Sadly, the software / firmware has a very annoying bug that makes the earpieces lose gain and/or phase synch, which means that suddely one channel will start playing louder than the other and/or 180 degrees out of phase. One can get both earpieces back to correct gain/phase synch via the app, but it's a tedious procedure and therefore I've decided to return them.

However, if they fix this bug, I might buy them again in the future, since I loved pretty much everything else about them.



joshnor713 said:


> Just chiming in since I heard the M-2. Just listened a few minutes, but enough to say not great sound quality. Sounded muddy to me. Better options out there.



I had the exact same initial impression. Bass level is a bit elevated and highs are a bit subdued, so overall they don't sound all that clear at first listen.

But having used them in mobile surroundings, I must say that the tuning is actually pretty clever. Bass tends to get drowned out by noise, so the tasteful boost is very welcome. And whereas brighter IEMs tend to become thin and fatiguing in noisy surroundings, the Earins sound always pleasant and enjoyable, even at higher volume when you're out and about.


----------



## webvan

david8613 said:


> This is a cool idea.
> 
> https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/decibullz/black-diamond-custom-molded-true-wireless-earphone


Indeed, they look rather massive though and the molding doesn't seem to work for everyone based on reviews of their earplugs on Amazon...

I just got off a flight with the Jabra Sport Elite and the 65t and...3M Optime earmuffs. The JSE gave me better noise reduction using the stock L foam tips than the 65t with the stock L tips. The other problem is that my right ear isn't sealed as well as the left one with the 65t, not a huge deal in a quiet environment but quite noticeable there. I tried hard to find replacement tips in my stack yesterday but found nothing that sealed while preserving SQ, let alone fit in the case.

With the 3M earmuffs the rumbling was pretty much inaudible at the cost of some extra pressure of course! 

I also had some TaoTronics ANC headphones and IEMs and the NR was somewhat similar as with the JSEs with the bonus of no ear pressure of course. As a side note the headphones did a better job than the IEMs since they provide very little passive isolation, by design apparently since the idea is to avoid ear canal pressure and make up for it with ANC. Not sure there are IEMs with ANC that don't work like that?


----------



## SomeGuyDude

david8613 said:


> This is a cool idea.
> 
> https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/decibullz/black-diamond-custom-molded-true-wireless-earphone



Decibullz are legit in terms of the custom molding idea. Their earplugs are damn good. If these sound good we might have some new top dogs.


----------



## david8613 (Oct 23, 2018)

idk but i'm thinking for airplane use I would stick with headphones, I have used iem on a plane in the past not so good, train yes, plane is different. head phones work better, I have used bose, sony, plantronics headphones on planes, great success. maybe cabin pressure idk.


----------



## david8613

I wonder when ultimate ears is gonna jump in the truewireless ring? Plantronics need to bring a newer truewireless into the market, they always make good stuff, the last one was half baked.


----------



## SilverEars

I want a reasonably priced true wireless custom.  I find noise isolation comparable to ANC with customs, and would want something I can get wet and beat around for the gym.  Because I'm not risking anything expensive for workouts.

It's going to be a long long time before we get a good battery life one.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

What are you calling expensive? The highest end "gym" TWEs are less than $200 and the odds of getting high battery life and good SQ with a custom fit for less than that is really damn low.


----------



## SecondVariety

clerkpalmer said:


> Yes no AAC or aptx per rha. Rbh sound makes ldac bt iems but reviews are mediocre on sound and ergonomics.



Source?  

I know the packaging doesn't seem to mention any codecs, nor does the manual they include.  But I've been using them and when streaming audio from my S9+ I can see AAC is being used by checking with developer options "Bluetooth Audio Codec".


----------



## clerkpalmer (Oct 23, 2018)

SecondVariety said:


> Source?
> 
> I know the packaging doesn't seem to mention any codecs, nor does the manual they include.  But I've been using them and when streaming audio from my S9+ I can see AAC is being used by checking with developer options "Bluetooth Audio Codec".



RHA PMd me on this forum and said no APTx or AAC.  It would be nice to get a final answer on this point.  AAC would move the needle for me.

Here was the response:

Thanks for your message! I can confirm that the TrueConnect does not support the aptX or AAC codecs, instead uses SBC codecs.

When designing the TrueConnect we did lots of customer research and the majority of TrueConnect users use music streaming services to listen to true wireless products and almost all music streaming services are not aptX compatible and so it wasn’t a priority feature. The chipset that the TrueConnect uses is optimised for connectivity and battery life, which was a driving factor in the design of the earbuds.

Kind regards,

Dante


----------



## SomeGuyDude

clerkpalmer said:


> RHA PMd me on this forum and said no APTx or AAC.  It would be nice to get a final answer on this point.  AAC would move the needle for me.
> 
> Here was the response:
> 
> ...



There's a pitiful irony in an audio company deciding that implementing a higher quality codec isn't a "priority feature."


----------



## clerkpalmer

SomeGuyDude said:


> There's a pitiful irony in an audio company deciding that implementing a higher quality codec isn't a "priority feature."



Interesting that AAC is showing as active in developer options... I wonder if the chipset has AAC in it but they didn't pay for the license so they can't advertise it...  I agree, strange marketing move by an Audio first company.


----------



## SecondVariety

FWIW I can change back and forth between SBC and AAC.  I am not able to change to AptX or LDAC.


----------



## clerkpalmer

SecondVariety said:


> FWIW I can change back and forth between SBC and AAC.  I am not able to change to AptX or LDAC.


can you hear a difference?


----------



## SecondVariety

clerkpalmer said:


> can you hear a difference?



Sadly no, my 40+ year old ears cannot pick out the difference between SBC, AAC, or AptX.  I've tried with LG 770, AKG y50bt, and now these RHA TrueConnect.  Can anyone recommend something in particular to listen to, and to listen for?  Yes I know ignorance is bliss.


----------



## clerkpalmer (Oct 23, 2018)

Took the plunge on the 65T Active at the ebay Jabra refurbished price of $125.  Couldn't resist.  I can see why the get favorable reviews across the board - they seem to do many things well and probably better than average .  Fit is quite good. I have trouble without stabilizers but these survived my first workout without slipping. Design and finish are very nice.  Pairing was a breeze.  Case is a nice size and although haven't gotten that far yet, battery life is above average.  Now, on to SQ.  I wasn't wowed.  Definitely a more balanced approach to sound than the Bose and Sony.  I would call the SQ good.  It wasn't terrible.  Decent low end.  Highs were a little muted.  Biggest issue to me is that they lack a little punch.  This may be a good thing to some but to me, it left something to be desired.  In terms of pure SQ, the Bose and Sony beat these by a decent margin .  I will probably keep them around for the low price I paid and because they have many other positive qualities.  But the search for the end game TW continues ...


----------



## jrm27

SomeGuyDude said:


> I personally use the sp700n for the gym but the Jabra make a good launching-off point. Sorta like how one's impression of the HD650 makes a good indicator of where to go after that.


I really do hear great things about the sp700. I just am not a fan of the form factor. Too big. That's why I'm trying to decide between the jabra and the Samsung Gear Icon X. Good reviews and feature set in a more attractive form factor and size (for me).


----------



## SomeGuyDude

jrm27 said:


> I really do hear great things about the sp700. I just am not a fan of the form factor. Too big. That's why I'm trying to decide between the jabra and the Samsung Gear Icon X. Good reviews and feature set in a more attractive form factor and size (for me).



I mean... they're just stuck in your ears. So what if they're kinda big? You'll sacrifice sound quality because of the aesthetic of something you can't see? 

Besides, they ain't that big.


----------



## jrm27 (Oct 23, 2018)

That's a fair enough point. Maybe it does come across as a bit vain.  I also just don't like the feel of them hanging out of my ears I guess. I've been using custom IEM's for about 10 years now and I'm just used to that low-profile feel. Even using cans bugs me sometimes. Maybe I need to try them on again and give 'em another shot!


----------



## david8613 (Oct 23, 2018)

jrm27 said:


> I really do hear great things about the sp700. I just am not a fan of the form factor. Too big. That's why I'm trying to decide between the jabra and the Samsung Gear Icon X. Good reviews and feature set in a more attractive form factor and size (for me).



The are not big, in pics they look huge, but in person not so much.

I own all 3 you speak of here so I can maybe help a little. I am gonna rate them for you 1 being best 3 being least best.

I am comparing the samsung iconx 2018, jabra 65t active, Sony sp700n. I'm leaving out the sony wf1000x and jabra elite sport they are the older models and I figure you want advice on the new stuff. Here we go!

Sound- 1=sony easily, 2=jabra close 2nd, 3=samsung
Controls- 1=samsung love touch controls, 2=jabra, 3=sony
Fit- they all fit equally well, comfortable and do not fall out.sony and samsung go deeper in ear.
App-these all have excellent apps that work very well. Samsung has a great coach, jabra has a nice eq, sony noise cancelling control in app is so good.
Battery life-1=jabra easily, 2=samsung, 3=sony
Build quality- 1=samsung good feeling plastic,
2= jabra and Sony use a cheap feeling plastics.
Connection strength- I have great connection with all three, but I think samsung might be a smidge better with samsung note 8.
Case- 1=samsung case is great it locks closed 2= I dont like either sonys nor jabra case. Sony case is cheap feeling lid could break, jabra's case top lid doesn't lock, if you drop the case the buds will go flying everywhere and its shape is very slippery in hand.
Charging time- 1=jabra fast charge usb-c, 2=samsung USB-C 3=sony regular USB

I own a few sets because I like something in all of them, so I constantly rotate them. Just like regular headphones you cant just have one.


----------



## SilverEars (Oct 23, 2018)

david8613 said:


> The are not big, in pics they look huge, but in person not so much.
> 
> I own all 3 you speak of here so I can maybe help a little. I am gonna rate them for you 1 being best 3 being least best.
> 
> ...


Although I haven't tried the Sony, your ranking seems agreable in regards to everything other than SQ.

For those like the Sony, is it the bass and treble being standouts?  Perhaps, most V-shaped out of the bunch?  The measurements show peaks in the treble, and a bit too much bass.  Doesn't look balanced.  I think even IconX comes off more balanced.  Graphs don't tell all, but they tell us treble peaks and too much of stuff.

Sony sp700n


Samsung IconX


Jabra Elite Active


Jabra and IconX have similarities in response

BeatsX


I find top 3 of what I've heard to be Jabra Elite Active, Samsung IconX, and BeatsX.


----------



## david8613

Sony definitely have bass, but it's good bass not bloated or over done. Very clear good separation, wide and deep stage. Jabra sound good too close to sony but sony sound clearer more separation. Samsung are clear, but sound a little flat, closed in, no separation.


----------



## srinivasvignesh

Review of the RHA TrueConnect

https://nerdtechy.com/rha-trueconnect-review


----------



## Firevortex

srinivasvignesh said:


> Review of the RHA TrueConnect
> 
> https://nerdtechy.com/rha-trueconnect-review



i would take that review with a grain of salt. there is no reference comparison. a decent review would have included how it compares to other TWE. especially  A/B testing on SQ. 
feels like a paid marketing write up. they missed out that you need to tap the buds 3 times just to get the volume down one bar. you'll be tapping your ear like a reject for 20sec just to get the volume turned down lol that alone would put off most of the people who are in the market.


----------



## srinivasvignesh

Yes, I would agree. I was only trying to make available any available information, because there has been very little qualitative review out there.


----------



## srinivasvignesh

Firevortex said:


> i would take that review with a grain of salt. there is no reference comparison. a decent review would have included how it compares to other TWE. especially  A/B testing on SQ.
> feels like a paid marketing write up. they missed out that you need to tap the buds 3 times just to get the volume down one bar. you'll be tapping your ear like a reject for 20sec just to get the volume turned down lol that alone would put off most of the people who are in the market.




In case you have used it, is the volume controllable using the phone volume controls, for e.g, potentially mitigating a nasty user experience? 

Vignesh


----------



## james444

SecondVariety said:


> Sadly no, my 40+ year old ears cannot pick out the difference between SBC, AAC, or AptX.  I've tried with LG 770, AKG y50bt, and now these RHA TrueConnect.  Can anyone recommend something in particular to listen to, and to listen for?  Yes I know ignorance is bliss.



At high enough bitrate, you'll be hard-pressed to pick out a difference between SBC and other codecs.

http://soundexpert.org/encoders-320-kbps


----------



## Firevortex

Just got my Spiral dot today. after 2 hrs of solid A/B testing with the spiral dot, stock L tips and soundpeats tips. I can definitely say JVC Spiral Dot + Jabra elite 65t = warm smooth Wooden Audio Technica sound. It gave it a similar smoothness and warmth to vocals that the wooden series was able to color. however, if you have experience with the wooden AT sounds you'll know it excels as particular genres but the colouration will make genres such as classical or piano poor (one might have to redo their EQ). 

65T sits flush at the bottom of the long Spiral dot tube (see pic) so it fits the 65t perfectly for the Spiral dots to do its job. it was able to give characteristics of a horn like effect (due to the deep tube). It tamed the peaking highs and the low-end bass fray(pretty sure it is the dot design inside the tubes that was able to iron out those high low peaks). by doing so it was able to bring out the mid-frequency dip for vocals. Thus more detail can be heard from the mids balancing out the whole frequency curve. which gave it a less fatiguing listening experience.  

The material is a bouncer thicker silicon than my soundpeat tips and about 3 times thicker than the stock L tips. It feels very rubbery so it grips more when putting it in your ear making it secure. they are the most comfortable of all the tips I've tried due to the slightly soft bouncy and grippy characteristic of its silicon. 

Spiral dot vs stock Tips = night and day difference both from comfort to sound.
Spiral dot vs Soundpeats Tips = warmer sounding with an increase in detail of the mids and ironing out the low/high peaks.

Spiral dot Tips needs to be modded like the Soundpeads with tape. jabra driver clip tip is 4.5mm wide, those tips have 5mm inner tube width with 4mm tube insert width. the 0.5mm grip of the inner tube is not going to clip on the tip securely if it's pulled hard. So a choker is needed. worked perfectly with tape no fall outs. unfortunately with the longer tube its now harder to charge. you'll have to press hard on the charging case to jam the earbuds in. 

would highly recommend those tips to Jabra owners. my 65ts now sounds Good 

Mounts perfectly at the bottom







Spiral dot has the largest inner tube width compared to the rest with the stock been the narrowest 






Longest Tube out of the 3 with again stock been very short and thin


----------



## kkcc

I have been using the WF1000x since launch but am back in the market looking for something better.  It was an impulse buy at an airport when it was first launch and WF1000x was the first true wireless with a SQ than I find marginally acceptable.   A lot of resolution and clarity (AAC mode) with enough warmth and bass for most music.  ANC also a bonus and works quite well.  However the right channel drop off issue has been a big let down since day 1.  Later firmware (now 2.0) does seems to improve but still too annoying.  Changing to SBC doesn't really improve the right channel drop out.  Also don't like the fact that voice call audio only comes in left channel.

Starting to research again I bump into this thread.  Would seek your recommendations for something with at least similar level of SQ as the sony, and preferably with AptX HD or better codec.  Cost is not really a concern but sound quality (1), connection stability (2) and ergonomics including the box (3) are my key considerations.  

thanks in advance for your inputs!


----------



## joshnor713

kkcc said:


> I have been using the WF1000x since launch but am back in the market looking for something better.  It was an impulse buy at an airport when it was first launch and WF1000x was the first true wireless with a SQ than I find marginally acceptable.   A lot of resolution and clarity (AAC mode) with enough warmth and bass for most music.  ANC also a bonus and works quite well.  However the right channel drop off issue has been a big let down since day 1.  Later firmware (now 2.0) does seems to improve but still too annoying.  Changing to SBC doesn't really improve the right channel drop out.  Also don't like the fact that voice call audio only comes in left channel.
> 
> Starting to research again I bump into this thread.  Would seek your recommendations for something with at least similar level of SQ as the sony, and preferably with AptX HD or better codec.  Cost is not really a concern but sound quality (1), connection stability (2) and ergonomics including the box (3) are my key considerations.
> 
> thanks in advance for your inputs!



I'm still a WF-1000X user, but have also tried some other true wireless earbuds. Sony's SQ is what keeps me going back to them. Think the closest I heard that could compete SQ-wise is the BE Free8, but it has more connection problems than Sony. I haven't heard the 65t.

I had a chance to try Sennheiser's upcoming offering at this IFA and it sounded great. Didn't get much time with them (crowded exhibit), so can't comment on things like connection reliability, but on sound alone, I'm keeping my eye on them.


----------



## SecondVariety

srinivasvignesh said:


> In case you have used it, is the volume controllable using the phone volume controls, for e.g, potentially mitigating a nasty user experience?
> 
> Vignesh



yes, I'm able to adjust volume using my phone and my watch.  I rarely will adjust volume using the earbud button.


----------



## chinmie

kkcc said:


> I have been using the WF1000x since launch but am back in the market looking for something better.  It was an impulse buy at an airport when it was first launch and WF1000x was the first true wireless with a SQ than I find marginally acceptable.   A lot of resolution and clarity (AAC mode) with enough warmth and bass for most music.  ANC also a bonus and works quite well.  However the right channel drop off issue has been a big let down since day 1.  Later firmware (now 2.0) does seems to improve but still too annoying.  Changing to SBC doesn't really improve the right channel drop out.  Also don't like the fact that voice call audio only comes in left channel.
> 
> Starting to research again I bump into this thread.  Would seek your recommendations for something with at least similar level of SQ as the sony, and preferably with AptX HD or better codec.  Cost is not really a concern but sound quality (1), connection stability (2) and ergonomics including the box (3) are my key considerations.
> 
> thanks in advance for your inputs!



do you still have dropouts after switching the ANC/ambient off? i never have dropouts after i turn it off. the annoying thing is it keeps going into ambient mode each time i remove it from the case so i have to toggle them each time


----------



## srinivasvignesh

SecondVariety said:


> yes, I'm able to adjust volume using my phone and my watch.  I rarely will adjust volume using the earbud button.



Glad there is some workaround. If this is the only limitation, it might very well work for my use case.  How about making calls? How is the quality on the other end of the call when we speak? Does it do a decent job of background noise management?


----------



## SomeGuyDude

"These headphones I have heard sound the best," says one man.

"I have not heard them, but this graph says they do not sound good," replies another.

Head-fi in a nutshell.


----------



## joshnor713

chinmie said:


> do you still have dropouts after switching the ANC/ambient off? i never have dropouts after i turn it off. the annoying thing is it keeps going into ambient mode each time i remove it from the case so i have to toggle them each time



I'm on the same boat. I toggle ANC off because I don't notice that much difference with it. Annoying that the earbuds reset when you shut them off. Can't say I've noticed a difference with the connection between the two modes.


----------



## david8613 (Oct 24, 2018)

I try not to pay attention to graphs, they never really tell the whole story in real use. I also have the connection issues with the sony wf1000x, none with the sony sp700n. they sound very close to each other, but the 1000x does sound slightly better, bass is cleaner, highs are nicer, they are smaller, more comfortable in ears, I enjoy them very much daily.


----------



## SecondVariety

david8613 said:


> I try not to pay attention to graphs, they never really tell the whole story in real use. I also have the connection issues with the sony wf1000x, none with the sony sp700n. they sound very close to each other, but the 1000x does sound slightly better, bass is cleaner, highs are nicer, they are smaller, more comfortable in ears, I enjoy them very much daily.



FWIW sony sp700n refurbs in white are under 80 USD on Amazon


----------



## Rickyearl

Update on my E8 journey from the prior pages (last post here ICYC: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/goi...are-we-there-yet.861024/page-83#post-14533225)

The new pair of E8s has burned in and the volume is almost as loud as the Soundcore Liberty Lites that I used as a volume measuring stick.  They will not make my ears bleed, but they're too loud for most purposes.  The old pair couldn't be heard clearly over airplane noises,  So, tremendous improvement.

However, it's also much, much warmer and "friendly" sounding - not at all clinical like the defective pair I had previously.  Lots of mid-bass, recessed high-mids, the top of the highs cut off.  Seems like this formula is now the go-to for most wireless headphones.  Detail and separation is pretty impressive.

The app seems to make a whole lot less difference with the new pair, too.  "Warm" just fuzzes everything up.  "Energetic" and "Bright" don't do a whole lot, but what they do sounds a bit artificial.  The widened soundstage seems to remove the details too much.  Everything sounds best with it centered and the circle at its smallest.

Unfortunately, what I think I want is a pair with the sound signature of the first pair but the volume of the second pair.  My dream would be wireless ER-4Ps.  Sigh.


----------



## chinmie

joshnor713 said:


> I'm on the same boat. I toggle ANC off because I don't notice that much difference with it. Annoying that the earbuds reset when you shut them off. Can't say I've noticed a difference with the connection between the two modes.



your unit still have frequent dropouts even with ambient off? that's too bad... maybe there's more interference in your area than my home. i only have tried it once in mall situation since i bought it, and it doesn't drop out. I'll try in other crowded place later this weekend and report back.


----------



## bjornw (Oct 24, 2018)

Rickyearl said:


> Update on my E8 journey from the prior pages (last post here ICYC: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/goi...are-we-there-yet.861024/page-83#post-14533225)
> 
> The new pair of E8s has burned in and the volume is almost as loud as the Soundcore Liberty Lites that I used as a volume measuring stick.  They will not make my ears bleed, but they're too loud for most purposes.  The old pair couldn't be heard clearly over airplane noises,  So, tremendous improvement.
> 
> ...



I love the sound signature of the E8, which is also very similar to that of the E6, or B&O in general. Too bad I felt like a dork with the E8's in my ears. I will never get used to wearing earphones that big. The E6's are basically everything I want in a wireless earphone, except for that horribly noisy connecting wire. Grrrr 

I don't have much hope for the RHA TrueConnect since they don't even mention the sound on the product page. Perhaps the upcoming Beyerdynamic Blue Byrd could be something, but the price is worryingly low...


----------



## joshnor713

chinmie said:


> your unit still have frequent dropouts even with ambient off? that's too bad... maybe there's more interference in your area than my home. i only have tried it once in mall situation since i bought it, and it doesn't drop out. I'll try in other crowded place later this weekend and report back.



Yeah. It's actually been very hit or miss with this headphone in my experience. Sometimes I put it on and no interruption at all, and then sometimes they just don't stabilize. The problem hasn't been severe enough for me to toss them.


----------



## david8613

joshnor713 said:


> Yeah. It's actually been very hit or miss with this headphone in my experience. Sometimes I put it on and no interruption at all, and then sometimes they just don't stabilize. The problem hasn't been severe enough for me to toss them.



same here, sometimes I get zero drop outs, sometimes she acts up, what I do is either shut off anc, or sometimes I toggle it on and then off and the drop outs go away.


----------



## Thesonofkrypton

kkcc said:


> I have been using the WF1000x since launch but am back in the market looking for something better.  It was an impulse buy at an airport when it was first launch and WF1000x was the first true wireless with a SQ than I find marginally acceptable.   A lot of resolution and clarity (AAC mode) with enough warmth and bass for most music.  ANC also a bonus and works quite well.  However the right channel drop off issue has been a big let down since day 1.  Later firmware (now 2.0) does seems to improve but still too annoying.  Changing to SBC doesn't really improve the right channel drop out.  Also don't like the fact that voice call audio only comes in left channel.
> 
> Starting to research again I bump into this thread.  Would seek your recommendations for something with at least similar level of SQ as the sony, and preferably with AptX HD or better codec.  Cost is not really a concern but sound quality (1), connection stability (2) and ergonomics including the box (3) are my key considerations.
> 
> thanks in advance for your inputs!



Was in your position but honestly, trying most of the available alternatives since getting the wf-1000x, nothing touches it on the sound quality.  Sony just need to come up with an improved model that fixes some of the issues, improve the battery life and it's almost perfect for me.


----------



## SecondVariety

bjornw said:


> I love the sound signature of the E8, which is also very similar to that of the E6, or B&O in general. Too bad I felt like a dork with the E8's in my ears. I will never get used to wearing earphones that big. The E6's are basically everything I want in a wireless earphone, except for that horribly noisy connecting wire. Grrrr
> 
> I don't have much hope for the RHA TrueConnect since they don't even mention the sound on the product page. Perhaps the upcoming Beyerdynamic Blue Byrd could be something, but the price is worryingly low...



Changed from AAC to SBC today since I cannot hear the difference anyway.  Haven't experienced a single drop yet.  Coincidence....?  Time will tell.


----------



## albau

SecondVariety said:


> Changed from AAC to SBC today since I cannot hear the difference anyway.  Haven't experienced a single drop yet.  Coincidence....?  Time will tell.


Perhaps higher rate codecs like AptX/AAC require more horsepower from the on-board SOC than SBC? Hence more frequent drops if SOC isn't powerful enough. Just speculation though.


----------



## albau

Not exactly pure wireless but people were inquiring about custom wireless IEMs. UE has them with short, sweet looking BT cable. Also supports standard wire, comes with molding self-kit. BT4.1, but nothing about codecs. Having had UE IEMs before and knowing their fabulous SQ I'm really tempted, even though now after using pure wireless 65t I strongly dislike any cables.


----------



## clerkpalmer

albau said:


> Not exactly pure wireless but people were inquiring about custom wireless IEMs. UE has them with short, sweet looking BT cable. Also supports standard wire, comes with molding self-kit. BT4.1, but nothing about codecs. Having had UE IEMs before and knowing their fabulous SQ I'm really tempted, even though now after using pure wireless 65t I strongly dislike any cables.


I was eyeing those myself. I couldn't find any reviews ... 500 isn't too bad


----------



## SomeGuyDude

david8613 said:


> I try not to pay attention to graphs, they never really tell the whole story in real use. I also have the connection issues with the sony wf1000x, none with the sony sp700n. they sound very close to each other, but the 1000x does sound slightly better, bass is cleaner, highs are nicer, they are smaller, more comfortable in ears, I enjoy them very much daily.



Makes sense. The 700n is the gym model and the 1000x is the "normal" one. If I were looking for a set just for around town the 700n wouldn't even be on my radar.


----------



## albau

SecondVariety said:


> yes, I'm able to adjust volume using my phone and my watch.  I rarely will adjust volume using the earbud button.


To me usable on-board volume control is a must! When I run or lie on a workbench I just hate to blindly fumble with my phone deep in the pocket. Physical, one-click up/down volume buttons are actually one of my favorite features on 65t.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

Thesonofkrypton said:


> Was in your position but honestly, trying most of the available alternatives since getting the wf-1000x, nothing touches it on the sound quality.  Sony just need to come up with an improved model that fixes some of the issues, improve the battery life and it's almost perfect for me.



I do wonder if the battery issue is mostly related to the ANC. I turned that off and even after a 2hr workout when I pop them in later it'll sometimes still say "battery level: high"


----------



## chinmie

SomeGuyDude said:


> I do wonder if the battery issue is mostly related to the ANC. I turned that off and even after a 2hr workout when I pop them in later it'll sometimes still say "battery level: high"



i always like it that by the time i put the earpieces in my ears, i skipped the part when she says "battery level", so all i get is a warm and welcoming "hi"


----------



## rawrster

albau said:


> Not exactly pure wireless but people were inquiring about custom wireless IEMs. UE has them with short, sweet looking BT cable. Also supports standard wire, comes with molding self-kit. BT4.1, but nothing about codecs. Having had UE IEMs before and knowing their fabulous SQ I'm really tempted, even though now after using pure wireless 65t I strongly dislike any cables.



If it's anything like the one they had before they changed their lineup, it's nothing special. I have the mmcx one. I found this link https://assets.ultimateears.com/ue-custom/ue-custom-qsg-eng.pdf however it shows aac, sbc and modified sbc. The picture shows the volume control currently on the mmcx cable I have and would pass on that if it's the same. Of course if they changed it then it could be a much better option than before.

On another note, would the Jabra 65t active be the best existing compromise between sound quality and battery? That $125 refurb on ebay is really tempting (at a minimal cost)P and looks like it could replace my bose soundport and could also use it at work as I get interrupted a lot and removing and putting back my iem's is really annoying.


----------



## david8613

Jabra is not the best at anything except battery, but yes it's a good compromise, sounds really good, easy to use controls, strong bluetooth connection, fast charge, I would get active version if you are going to gym.


----------



## SilverEars

david8613 said:


> Jabra is not the best at anything except battery, but yes it's a good compromise, sounds really good, easy to use controls, strong bluetooth connection, fast charge, I would get active version if you are going to gym.


Active version also has rapid charge, which is the big draw compared to the regular elite.  Since the the battery life on these TW is low, rapid charge would be useful.


----------



## chinmie

here's a little mod that i did on my 65t tips:
i use a cheap wide bore tips, cut the stem a bit so it's about the same length as the jabra's stock tips, then i put it under the stock tips so it create a wider lips. 

it really helps as this eliminates/lessen the 65t chance to break the vacuum seal even if i move my jaw or shake my head, also it makes the plastic underside not touching my ears so much, reducing pain.

it also can still fit on the charging case with no problem. and an added bonus: because of the slight width increase, the earpieces would not fall of the case even if i turn it upside down

here's some photos to make it clearer:


----------



## webvan

Thanks for the tip, will have to try something like that as I just can't get a proper seal in my right ear. I would need an XL size I suppose.


----------



## david8613 (Oct 25, 2018)

chinmie said:


> here's a little mod that i did on my 65t tips:
> i use a cheap wide bore tips, cut the stem a bit so it's about the same length as the jabra's stock tips, then i put it under the stock tips so it create a wider lips.
> 
> it really helps as this eliminates/lessen the 65t chance to break the vacuum seal even if i move my jaw or shake my head, also it makes the plastic underside not touching my ears so much, reducing pain.
> ...



this is a very good mod, I like how it keeps the buds locked in the case like Sonys wf1000x and sp700 do, I had my 65t active buds go flying in different directions when I would drop that slippery case and it happened to me like 3 times luckily I didn't lose any ear pieces. I never dropped any of my other true wireless cases this only happens with the 65t active, they need to update that case surface in the future,and put a locking mechanism on the case.
I always say experiment with tips, once you get that all important seal you will know it instantly! otherwise the best earphones will sound terrible. for example I am a big guy i have always used large tips, but with the sony sp700 I cannot use the large tips I have to use the size that's a step down from the largest tips included and then I get perfect seal. don't give up when it comes to the tips, I even got great results with cheap throw away spare tips I had laying around.


----------



## kkcc

joshnor713 said:


> I'm still a WF-1000X user, but have also tried some other true wireless earbuds. Sony's SQ is what keeps me going back to them. Think the closest I heard that could compete SQ-wise is the BE Free8, but it has more connection problems than Sony. I haven't heard the 65t.
> 
> I had a chance to try Sennheiser's upcoming offering at this IFA and it sounded great. Didn't get much time with them (crowded exhibit), so can't comment on things like connection reliability, but on sound alone, I'm keeping my eye on them.



Thanks Yes the Sennheiser looks to have some potential though I must say I wasn't a fan of the original or later iterations of the Momentum sound signature... 



chinmie said:


> do you still have dropouts after switching the ANC/ambient off? i never have dropouts after i turn it off. the annoying thing is it keeps going into ambient mode each time i remove it from the case so i have to toggle them each time



Yes I turned of ANC/ambient which improves a bit but still have the right channel drop off a bit too much than I can completely look past...



joshnor713 said:


> I'm on the same boat. I toggle ANC off because I don't notice that much difference with it. Annoying that the earbuds reset when you shut them off. Can't say I've noticed a difference with the connection between the two modes.



I feel turning them off will make the issue less frequent and when it happen it ”recover”s more quickly/smoothly.... tho I do like ANC quite a lot as it is actually good to filter out noise of the train/bus when I commute (which is 90% of the time I opt for these instead of my proper gears)



joshnor713 said:


> Yeah. It's actually been very hit or miss with this headphone in my experience. Sometimes I put it on and no interruption at all, and then sometimes they just don't stabilize. The problem hasn't been severe enough for me to toss them.



yes, it is annoying but does sound good enough for me to not toss them, but after a particularly bad Wednesday it prompted me to look again... but doesn't seem to have many surefire better choice for my purpose...



Thesonofkrypton said:


> Was in your position but honestly, trying most of the available alternatives since getting the wf-1000x, nothing touches it on the sound quality.  Sony just need to come up with an improved model that fixes some of the issues, improve the battery life and it's almost perfect for me.



Word


----------



## webvan

Still toying with the idea of getting a Sony, it seems Sony fixed the right ear dropout with the Sp700?


----------



## clerkpalmer

webvan said:


> Still toying with the idea of getting a Sony, it seems Sony fixed the right ear dropout with the Sp700?


I don't have any dropouts on mine.


----------



## david8613 (Oct 25, 2018)

webvan said:


> Still toying with the idea of getting a Sony, it seems Sony fixed the right ear dropout with the Sp700?



No drop outs here with sp700, very solid connection. Anyone out there play with the sony sp900 yet?  its not here in the states. It is supposed to finally have touch controls for volume YAY! and balanced armatures, hopefully Sony tunes it right, which I think they will. Sony should have upped the battery life but they did not. I never use my head phones for 5 or 6 hours straight but it would be nice to know you could do it if you wanted to.


----------



## SecondVariety (Oct 25, 2018)

SecondVariety said:


> Changed from AAC to SBC today since I cannot hear the difference anyway.  Haven't experienced a single drop yet.  Coincidence....?  Time will tell.



Update - had a nice long stretch without drops.... then while walking through the parking lot after work to my car - a ton of repeated drops.  Open parking lot, I stayed late - literally just walking with phone in pocket.  Then last night and this morning, no drops.  Also noticed that when I power them up, and start playing spotify - the codec seems to default to AAC.  I hoped it would remember the last setting and stick with it.  So for RHA to say they don't support AAC...... seems questionable.  Maybe the issue is my Samsung S9+.

---edit---
reply from RHA support:

Thanks for your email. From what you’ve said it seems like there may be a software issue with your TrueConnect. Please accept our sincere apologies for this unexpected issue.

However, we are able to resolve this. I will arrange to send you a PDF return label for the headphones to come back to our UK office for a software update. Once you've attached this to a jiffy bag, all you would need to do is take it to your local Post Office and return it to us. 

We will complete the update and return your TrueConnect within four working days of receipt and testing of the headphones. Can you please confirm the address the faulty headphones are returning from, as well as the delivery address for the replacement?


----------



## Rickyearl

SecondVariety said:


> Update - had a nice long stretch without drops.... then while walking through the parking lot after work to my car - a ton of repeated drops.  Open parking lot, I stayed late - literally just walking with phone in pocket.  Then last night and this morning, no drops.  Also noticed that when I power them up, and start playing spotify - the codec seems to default to AAC.  I hoped it would remember the last setting and stick with it.  So for RHA to say they don't support AAC...... seems questionable.  Maybe the issue is my Samsung S9+.
> 
> ---edit---
> reply from RHA support:
> ...



You have to send them all the way to the UK for a software/firmware update?  Wow.


----------



## taylor

Did some traveling with the JEA 65t and pretty happy with them, going to keep them. Even just using them on the airplane they reduced noise significantly while turned off. The connection stability and ease of use has been perfect. 

I thought I got a good deal at $139.99 refurb on eBay, but the price has since dropped to $124.99 and eBay is running a 10% off today so that should get them down to $112.50 if it works

I thought I'd try to compile some of the more informative posts about different tip options

The was a discussion several months ago that Comply was working on a new tip specifically for the JEA 65t, but as of today they aren't on the Comply website



RunsWithScissors said:


> New Comply Foam Tips coming!
> 
> I’ve had the Jabra Elite Active 65t for over one month now and very happy with these earphones. Only downside is lag with YouTube vids. No lag with Netflix or Amazon Prime video or streaming video from home network PC on iPhone 7 or iPad. I use the provided large size silicone tips and get good sound, albeit with slightly difficult fit.
> 
> ...



Otherwise, there's some discussion on Spiral Dot tips



Firevortex said:


> Just got my Spiral dot today. after 2 hrs of solid A/B testing with the spiral dot, stock L tips and soundpeats tips. I can definitely say JVC Spiral Dot + Jabra elite 65t = warm smooth Wooden Audio Technica sound. It gave it a similar smoothness and warmth to vocals that the wooden series was able to color. however, if you have experience with the wooden AT sounds you'll know it excels as particular genres but the colouration will make genres such as classical or piano poor (one might have to redo their EQ).
> 
> 65T sits flush at the bottom of the long Spiral dot tube (see pic) so it fits the 65t perfectly for the Spiral dots to do its job. it was able to give characteristics of a horn like effect (due to the deep tube). It tamed the peaking highs and the low-end bass fray(pretty sure it is the dot design inside the tubes that was able to iron out those high low peaks). by doing so it was able to bring out the mid-frequency dip for vocals. Thus more detail can be heard from the mids balancing out the whole frequency curve. which gave it a less fatiguing listening experience.
> 
> ...


----------



## bjornw (Oct 25, 2018)

Rickyearl said:


> You have to send them all the way to the UK for a software/firmware update?  Wow.



Eeeh... wonder if they won’t support firmware updates over the internet at all?! That would be crazy...


----------



## Firevortex (Oct 25, 2018)

got my replacement unit from Jabra today  they didn't bother to take the old 1 back. i guess shipping would cost them more than just sending out a new one? connection is good no cracking noises when turning up the volume. SQ remains the same. since i listen to mostly vocal pop/dance genre i enjoy the spiral dot a lot. it's now easy to close the charger lid since they've loosened up a bit. i'll prob use those tips for future TWEs. didn't know tips would do so much for IEMs... it's like changing an op-amp in your DAC or swapping a tube on your AMP  $8USD well spent!

@chinmie - i thought about cutting mine up too before but you'll be cutting up the locking choker on the tube. the driver tip would sit too deep into the tube making the sound harsher? unless the width of your inner tube is around 4.5mm?


----------



## webvan

RunsWithScissors said:


> I have not actually used the Truly Wireless tips because they only come in one size which is equivalent to the Medium size on other Comply foam tips. I require Large size tips to fit my ears so I doubted the Truly Wireless tips would fit me. I inquired with Comply support about 65t tips and alternatives and they invited me to the test program one month after my inquiry. The newly developed tips specifically for the Elite/Active 65t come in Small, Medium, and Large sizes (at least the test tips provided to me as part of the "VIP" test program were available in these sizes - I can only assume they will be the same tips that eventually go on sale depending on test feedback received by Comply). These tips are similar to other Comply foam tips such as the 'isolation' models in shape and materials without wax guards. I have isolation, sport and comfort tips for the Jlab Epic 2 wireless earphones and equate the 65t tips with the standard isolation tips as most similar. The 65t tips fit in the charging case whereas the other 'standard' tips (not truly wireless) do NOT fit in the charging case - height dimension is too tall and core inner diameter on the 65t tips maintains a good fit on the earphones so they don't slip off when being inserted/removed from your ears or the charging case. Overall, the 65t tips sound comparable to the silicone tips, perhaps a bit better bass depending on fit/seal you get. This is very subjective and I'm not measuring frequency response, just subjectively listening to same sources and songs with both tips installed and subjectively comparing. I find the 65t foam tips more comfortable than the provided silicone tips too and they fit very securely, so good for workouts/activity.



Following taylor's post above I went back to the first mention of these special 65t tips and looked a bit further down and that's the quote above. It doesn't seem these special Comply tips for the 65t have been released yet ? I tried the Truly Wireless and they're way too small. I also tried the Audio Pro (olive shaped) and they fit (more or less) but not in the case and the SQ takes a huge hit, highs are gone and overall the 65Ts sound very dull.


----------



## RunsWithScissors

webvan said:


> Following taylor's post above I went back to the first mention of these special 65t tips and looked a bit further down and that's the quote above. It doesn't seem these special Comply tips for the 65t have been released yet ? I tried the Truly Wireless and they're way too small. I also tried the Audio Pro (olive shaped) and they fit (more or less) but not in the case and the SQ takes a huge hit, highs are gone and overall the 65Ts sound very dull.



I recently inquired with Comply about the availability and release date of the new 65t tips under development which I tested and they could not give me a date. However, they did offer to email me when they do become available so that means they are still in the process of bringing them to market.

I'll post availability if/when I find out more. Hope that helps.


----------



## webvan

Sounds good, thanks !


----------



## chinmie

Firevortex said:


> @chinmie - i thought about cutting mine up too before but you'll be cutting up the locking choker on the tube. the driver tip would sit too deep into the tube making the sound harsher? unless the width of your inner tube is around 4.5mm?



yup, it does loose the choker part of the tip, and that on it's own will not be able to stick to the 65t.
but on the mod i did that was necessary so it can slide beneath the original stock eartips (which is not cut or modified). this way i can use the stock eartips's choker to hold onto the 65t, while the added tip under them acts to widen the overall diameter of the tip's base


----------



## jrm27

Thanks for all the info here... I went ahead and grabbed a set of jabra actives (refurb) on ebay with the 10% off. Seemed like I might as well see how I like 'em.


----------



## clerkpalmer

jrm27 said:


> Thanks for all the info here... I went ahead and grabbed a set of jabra actives (refurb) on ebay with the 10% off. Seemed like I might as well see how I like 'em.


Absolutely a no brainier at that price. Having used them for a few days, I have grown to appreciate the more balanced sound of these to the Sony and Bose. These are very good TW headphones. Hard to find much fault particularly at 112 bucks.


----------



## bjornw

bjornw said:


> Eeeh... wonder if they won’t support firmware updates over the internet at all?! That would be crazy...



I contacted RHA and asked about their strategy for software/firmware updates of the TrueConnect. Here's the reply:

_I can confirm at the moment any software updates will be done via our UK office. However, we do offer a 30 day return period, so if you were to purchase any of our products from an authorised retailer and they were not suitable in any way, you could of course return them anytime within the 30 day return period. _

Disappointing, to say the least.


----------



## SecondVariety

bjornw said:


> I contacted RHA and asked about their strategy for software/firmware updates of the TrueConnect. Here's the reply:
> 
> _I can confirm at the moment any software updates will be done via our UK office. However, we do offer a 30 day return period, so if you were to purchase any of our products from an authorised retailer and they were not suitable in any way, you could of course return them anytime within the 30 day return period. _
> 
> Disappointing, to say the least.



Returning them means paying for shipping.  I'm willing to let them take a shot at updating the "software" (grrr.... pretty sure it's firmware) and ship them back to me with them paying for shipping both ways.


----------



## happytoon

bjornw said:


> Eeeh... wonder if they won’t support firmware updates over the internet at all?! That would be crazy...



I've DM RHA on Twitter regarding the future proofing of the True Connect as there is no app to flash any future firmware etc...
The earbuds are NOT flashable, ie early version won't benefit from the "lesson" learnt and bug correction as this will be integrated in future production model... 
I cannot simply spend £150 and expect to have to upgrade in a few months (beyond the 30 days return period) for a new pair which has corrected firmware, whatever the now or future problem may be (if any)!!!

Below is what they replied:

_"Thanks for getting in touch and for your interest in the TrueConnect.

If you’re concerned about the earbuds, by all means, wait a few weeks to get a fuller picture of customer and press feedback. While we don’t offer over-the-air updates with the TrueConnect (it is not a flash-based chip), any improvements and updates we find now and in the future to improve the product even further would be made at a production level. Every RHA product comes with a three-year warranty, and we run a 30-day returns policy through the website; so if you get it and it doesn’t meet your expectations, you can send it back.

Regarding future products; we can’t really comment on next year’s products right now but, as always, stay tuned!

Kind regards, 

RHA"_


----------



## Firevortex (Oct 26, 2018)

just curious, what's so good about the TrueConnect that you guys are willing to overlook the avg SQ, terrible tap volume control, disconnections, servicing firmware disadvantages and not ask for a refund by now?


----------



## alee

happytoon said:


> I've DM RHA on Twitter regarding the future proofing of the True Connect as there is no app to flash any future firmware etc...
> The earbuds are NOT flashable, ie early version won't benefit from the "lesson" learnt and bug correction as this will be integrated in future production model...
> I cannot simply spend £150 and expect to have to upgrade in a few months (beyond the 30 days return period) for a new pair which has corrected firmware, whatever the now or future problem may be (if any)!!!


Thanks for this. I’m returning mine for sure now.


----------



## bjornw

Firevortex said:


> just curious what so good about the TrueConnect that you guys are willing to overlook the avg SQ, terrible tap volume control, disconnections and servicing firmware disadvantages?



Nothing, anymore. Non-upgradable firmware was the last straw for me. I bought the B&O H9i today. Decided to wait with true wireless in-ears for a while longer. Good luck to the rest of you.


----------



## clerkpalmer

Pretty clear RHA wasn't targeting HeadFiers with this product which is disappointing but they seem to have openly admitted it.  The price point is probably a giveway considering the price of the higher end TW sets like Beoplay, Senns and the Audio Technicas.  These are air pod competitors.  Strange decision for a company like RHA but these were clearly designed to hit a low price point at the sacrifice of SQ and other features.  I'm passing for now and waiting on the Senns.


----------



## Rickyearl

Anyone seen or tried the AudioTechnicas?  They seem huge and goofy looking even by TW standards.  But I am curious about the sound.


----------



## Tommy C

For all arounders, all models by Jabra are hard to beat and they are well priced.  
Rock solid connection and more than decent sq.  
I rather have a solid product that works great and sounds good than being a pilot tester or paying premium for a product that failed to deliver.


----------



## clerkpalmer

Rickyearl said:


> Anyone seen or tried the AudioTechnicas?  They seem huge and goofy looking even by TW standards.  But I am curious about the sound.


Not available yet. The more expensive ones are due soon. The sports version has no release date. Not going to rant about manufacturers who announce stuff and then can't get them released until months later.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

Decided to take the 65t Actives for a spin again and wow there's still the left-side hiss and the weird "tinfoil" sound on that side. I refuse to believe that I'm the only one who hears this when it's happened with 2 pair of regular 65t and 2 pair of Actives.


----------



## clerkpalmer

SomeGuyDude said:


> Decided to take the 65t Actives for a spin again and wow there's still the left-side hiss and the weird "tinfoil" sound on that side. I refuse to believe that I'm the only one who hears this when it's happened with 2 pair of regular 65t and 2 pair of Actives.


No left side hiss in mine. I did return the mw07 for that exact reason.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

clerkpalmer said:


> No left side hiss in mine. I did return the mw07 for that exact reason.



Is it possible it's my phone? It's driving me bonkers. Like I said, it's happened on 4 sets of Jabras.


----------



## chinmie

the 65t sound balance is tilted slightly to the left side...i thought it was because of the fit, but apparently it is a common problem on the 65t. has anyone has a solution for this?


----------



## albau

SomeGuyDude said:


> Decided to take the 65t Actives for a spin again and wow there's still the left-side hiss and the weird "tinfoil" sound on that side. I refuse to believe that I'm the only one who hears this when it's happened with 2 pair of regular 65t and 2 pair of Actives.


I have two pairs of 65t Elites and none of them has anything like what you describe.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

albau said:


> I have two pairs of 65t Elites and none of them has anything what you describe.



If you pause music (make sure you're in a silent room) you don't hear a small hiss in the left ear at all? Like I said, I've had FOUR pairs of these things now, before and after various firmware updates, and it's been a constant feature. Driving me nuts...



chinmie said:


> the 65t sound balance is tilted slightly to the left side...i thought it was because of the fit, but apparently it is a common problem on the 65t. has anyone has a solution for this?



I notice that for a brief moment when I first start playing audio but it seems to solve itself.

It seems to be similar to the hiss issue I mentioned. I think it's because of how the 65t is built, with the left running in slave to the right as opposed to two independent devices that pair.


----------



## SilverEars (Oct 27, 2018)

chinmie said:


> the 65t sound balance is tilted slightly to the left side...i thought it was because of the fit, but apparently it is a common problem on the 65t. has anyone has a solution for this?


This an interesting topic.  I think there maybe some issue with true wireless due to left and right sync.  For IconX, you have to store music files on both earpieces in order to play the music, which I mean both has to be buffered of the music content, but also must be synchronized as well.  I think the problem is due to independance of the functions of the two earpieces. One is master, and other is slave.  IconX has issues of one side fading in loundess output at times with large scale stream, probably of greater bandwidth than it can handle when you switch tracks.  This was off my PC's BT connection, so the connection was probably low bitrate SBC.


----------



## chinmie

SomeGuyDude said:


> If you pause music (make sure you're in a silent room) you don't hear a small hiss in the left ear at all? Like I said, I've had FOUR pairs of these things now, before and after various firmware updates, and it's been a constant feature. Driving me nuts...
> 
> 
> 
> ...



i haven't experienced the hiss on the left side only, well unless i turn on the ambient mode, but I'm sure that is not what you meant. i did experienced a crackling sound on the right side (like the sound of plastic wrapping), but it only happened once
the imbalance, however, doesn't seem to go away. I'm on the latest firmware by the way


----------



## clerkpalmer

SilverEars said:


> This an interesting topic.  I think there maybe some issue with true wireless due to left and right sync.  For IconX, you have to store music files on both earpieces in order to play the music, which I mean both has to be buffered of the music content, but also must be synchronized as well.  I think the problem is due to independance of the functions of the two earpieces. One is master, and other is slave.  IconX has issues of one side fading in loundess output at times with large scale stream, probably of greater bandwidth than it can handle when you switch tracks.  This was off my PC's BT connection, so the connection was probably low bitrate SBC.



Multiple Bose soundsport free had a left side volume higher issue. It was so obvious I could not believe more people didn't report it.  Ultimately gave up on them because of that issue and they would crap out with sweat. I do think balancing audio is an issue in tw. I sent an old pair of elite sport back as well for the same issue.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

I do wonder if that's why the Sony doesn't have the issue: You have to turn each earpiece on individually. Might also be part of the battery problem? I'm kinda ignorant on the tech. I just know the Jabra are unique in having this problem for me.


----------



## chinmie

SilverEars said:


> This an interesting topic.  I think there maybe some issue with true wireless due to left and right sync.  For IconX, you have to store music files on both earpieces in order to play the music, which I mean both has to be buffered of the music content, but also must be synchronized as well.  I think the problem is due to independance of the functions of the two earpieces. One is master, and other is slave.  IconX has issues of one side fading in loundess output at times with large scale stream, probably of greater bandwidth than it can handle when you switch tracks.  This was off my PC's BT connection, so the connection was probably low bitrate SBC.



it sounded like someone turns the stereo panning slightly to the left, so the kick bass and vocals is slightly to the left, and it drives me nuts 

and I'm sure it's not because the unit is dirty or damaged on the right side, because the right can still produce good treble sound. 

i think this is software/firmware related


----------



## SomeGuyDude

chinmie said:


> it sounded like someone turns the stereo panning slightly to the left, so the kick bass and vocals is slightly to the left, and it drives me nuts
> 
> and I'm sure it's not because the unit is dirty or damaged on the right side, because the right can still produce good treble sound.
> 
> i think this is software/firmware related



Can you test it with other devices? I see you're running a Note 8, and I have an S9+. Starting to wonder if Samsung's got an issue.


----------



## Tommy C

On a sepretae note, I have upgraded my iPhone 6s to iPhone X and the Jabra Elite Sport sounds really good! 
I thought they were pretty decent paired with the iPhone 6s but the sound is SO much better with the X. 
More 3D, rich and details are way better.


----------



## Firevortex

SomeGuyDude said:


> Decided to take the 65t Actives for a spin again and wow there's still the left-side hiss and the weird "tinfoil" sound on that side. I refuse to believe that I'm the only one who hears this when it's happened with 2 pair of regular 65t and 2 pair of Actives.




Yea it was happening on my pair. Hiss in quiter tracks and a single crack noise when turning volume above 80%. They send me a replacement and it's fixed.


----------



## chinmie

SomeGuyDude said:


> Can you test it with other devices? I see you're running a Note 8, and I have an S9+. Starting to wonder if Samsung's got an issue.



sure thing. I'll test it with my wife's pixel 2 later


----------



## chinmie

clerkpalmer said:


> Multiple Bose soundsport free had a left side volume higher issue. It was so obvious I could not believe more people didn't report it.  Ultimately gave up on them because of that issue and they would crap out with sweat. I do think balancing audio is an issue in tw. I sent an old pair of elite sport back as well for the same issue.



my Sony wf-1000x and my QCY Q29 do not exhibit that problem though.. 

I've just found out there is a reddit post talking about this, and apparently it happens to quite a lot of people with the jabra 65t and active


----------



## chinmie

SomeGuyDude said:


> Can you test it with other devices? I see you're running a Note 8, and I have an S9+. Starting to wonder if Samsung's got an issue.



yep: i just tested it on the pixel 2, the sound is normal, not tilted at all, so now i passed the jabra to my wife 
i haven't installed the jabra app yet on that phone though.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

chinmie said:


> yep: i just tested it on the pixel 2, the sound is normal, not tilted at all, so now i passed the jabra to my wife
> i haven't installed the jabra app yet on that phone though.



Interesting... looking forward to updates on this. If it's my phone then that's something I can work with.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

After testing around on my end and borrowing a Pixel, the 65t Active _still_ has the hiss. I just can't handle it. Everything else about them is great, but that hiss makes them unbearable and I'm tired of gambling with them.

On the other hand, I proved myself a liar by having my Sonys run out of battery at the gym recently, so I'm rolling the dice on the Bose Soundsport Free. The fit is weird as hell and they look like Frankenstein bolts coming out of my ears, but they sound pretty damn great and hopefully everything else will line up properly.


----------



## albau

Only today upgraded my 65t Elites to latest firmware 2.14.0 from Oct 10. Mic clarity and ability to suppress background noise are definitely better. Didn’t notice any other improvements, but I didn’t have any complaints like hiss and imbalance or with connection stability to begin with. 

https://www.jabra.com/support/release-notes/release-note-jabra-elite-65t-iet-6500


----------



## Tommy C (Oct 28, 2018)

SomeGuyDude said:


> After testing around on my end and borrowing a Pixel, the 65t Active _still_ has the hiss. I just can't handle it. Everything else about them is great, but that hiss makes them unbearable and I'm tired of gambling with them.
> 
> On the other hand, I proved myself a liar by having my Sonys run out of battery at the gym recently, so I'm rolling the dice on the Bose Soundsport Free. The fit is weird as hell and they look like Frankenstein bolts coming out of my ears, but they sound pretty damn great and hopefully everything else will line up properly.


The Bose aren’t too bad but I decided they weren’t for me.
The fit is weird


SomeGuyDude said:


> After testing around on my end and borrowing a Pixel, the 65t Active _still_ has the hiss. I just can't handle it. Everything else about them is great, but that hiss makes them unbearable and I'm tired of gambling with them.
> 
> On the other hand, I proved myself a liar by having my Sonys run out of battery at the gym recently, so I'm rolling the dice on the Bose Soundsport Free. The fit is weird as hell and they look like Frankenstein bolts coming out of my ears, but they sound pretty damn great and hopefully everything else will line up properly.



You may want to consider the Jabra Elite Sport if you need a pair for the gym since they come with a solid sports app and the heart rate monitor.
The Bose SSF wasn't for me, outside of the odd shape there were too many things l disliked about them.
- They have zero isolation, can't use them in the office, or taking the train and if your gym is rather loud you will find this to be an issue.
- They sound pretty good at home but the mids are kind of hallow and on the artificial side.
- Voice during phone calls was too weak for me, especially outdoors and comes thru one side only.
- Connection wasn't that solid - cutoffs were way too frequent outdoors, not so much of the an issue indoors.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

I don't trust Jabra anymore and I honestly don't need the HR monitor. The fit on the Bose is... unique but it's not a problem for me thus far, and they get loud enough that I can blast the music as much as I need to. I really wish the Jabra weren't giving me the problems they did because aside from the oddities in the left earpiece they really are awesome. Tomorrow will be the Bose's acid test in the gym. We'll see if they stay as secure as the Sony did. 

The only thing I've got my eye on is the Jaybird Run but I can't say I've heart great things about their SQ.


----------



## bronco1015

chinmie said:


> the 65t sound balance is tilted slightly to the left side...i thought it was because of the fit, but apparently it is a common problem on the 65t. has anyone has a solution for this?


I asked about this imbalance several pages back when I first got the 65Ts. I find that if I turn the volume down slowly from the earbud, then up it seems to mostly iliminate it. or sometimes totally illiminate it. also noticed that after several mins of being on sometimes they'll equal out as well. What's weird is if I ever use the assistant or take a call, the balance is 100%. I find myself using the tw1s mor because I don't have that issue with them at all. Though they from time to time will get out of sync and have this echo to them which is fixed by rewinding or fast forwarding.


----------



## chinmie

bronco1015 said:


> I asked about this imbalance several pages back when I first got the 65Ts. I find that if I turn the volume down slowly from the earbud, then up it seems to mostly iliminate it. or sometimes totally illiminate it. also noticed that after several mins of being on sometimes they'll equal out as well. What's weird is if I ever use the assistant or take a call, the balance is 100%. I find myself using the tw1s mor because I don't have that issue with them at all. Though they from time to time will get out of sync and have this echo to them which is fixed by rewinding or fast forwarding.



yup, I've read your post and also tried turning the volume down on the unit, but the problem persist. though i never had sync problem with it. I'm still gonna keep it though, because i believe jabra could fix it from firmware update, and because it doesn't have that problem with my wife's phone, so she could still use it

by the way, does anyone tried the Pamu Scroll yet? I've ordered one unit. the reviews on YouTube is quite good (even though the reviews might seem questionable). it's got bt 5.0 and ipx6, also the price is cheap enough even if it turns out to be mediocre


----------



## howdy

SomeGuyDude said:


> I don't trust Jabra anymore and I honestly don't need the HR monitor. The fit on the Bose is... unique but it's not a problem for me thus far, and they get loud enough that I can blast the music as much as I need to. I really wish the Jabra weren't giving me the problems they did because aside from the oddities in the left earpiece they really are awesome. Tomorrow will be the Bose's acid test in the gym. We'll see if they stay as secure as the Sony did.
> 
> The only thing I've got my eye on is the Jaybird Run but I can't say I've heart great things about their SQ.


I have the Jaybird Run and I don't really have any issues and the SQ is good. Download the app and tune it to how you want it and they get loud. I found the best fit with the supplied tips and I went for the bigger wings and surprisingly the wings did help with sound as it keeps them sealed.


----------



## webvan

The balance issue is strange. On my Jabra Sports Elite it's very slightly to the right and on my 65t very slightly to the left! That's with my Android, with my laptop it's much more to the left. The Jabra app should let you adjust that. 

Using a tip posted above I used some old biflange tips to beef up the fit of my 65t and it helps. They are definitely easier on the ear than the JSE but don't isolate quite as well as I verified on a plane. It's close though.


----------



## jant71 (Oct 29, 2018)

Anyone gonna try out the Jlab Jbuds Air TW? Getting some buzz as a good sounding one and they have the EQ function for $49 shipped.

Edifier getting in as well... https://www.edifier.com/us/en/headphones-earphones/tws3-true-wireless-earbud-headphones


----------



## webvan (Oct 29, 2018)

Both of these look like some generic TWS earbuds you can find by the gallon on Amazon ? I'm under the impression that the telltale sign that separates these from the better ones (Jabra, Sony, Bose, etc...) is the lack of a transparency mode. Something that's rather useful too !

The Pamu Scroll sound a bit too good to be true on Indiegogo at $39 instead of $149...and no transparency either.


----------



## albau

webvan said:


> Both of these look like some generic TWS earbuds you can find by the gallon on Amazon ? I'm under the impression that the telltale sign that separates these from the better ones (Jabra, Sony, Bose, etc...) is the lack of a transparency mode. Something that's rather useful too !


Cheapies usually also don't have onboard volume control.


----------



## chinmie

i just hope Jabra just make a panning pot on their app so people can adjust /fix the imbalance issue themselves


----------



## Rickyearl

I'm sure those of you with the volume imbalance thing have tried this (or don't use complys), but I had that issue with the E8 too - a slight imbalance favoring the left side.  I tried everything - tests with sounds switching back and forth, cleaning my ears, on and on.  It was slight but once I noticed it it was very distracting.  Couldn't fix it.

One day I was cleaning the complys and noticed a slight tear in the "rim" on the top of the comply on the R side.  When the complys weren't compressed it was invisible - I only saw it because I stretched the foam out with the little plastic stick I was using to clean them.  So I swapped them for a new pair of complys and magically the imbalance went away.

Complys are weird.


----------



## webvan (Oct 29, 2018)

They're weird indeed and in my experience tend to produce "muffled" sound...I haven't found anything better to go with the JSE and J65T than the stock tips !

The dirt cheap Anjrui alternative on AliExpress doesn't produce that muffled sound to my ears.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

Workout complete. Observations about the Bose (which I admit I've tried before but this was the first hard workout I gave 'em)


I have never seen a firmware update take that long. Like 40min from start to finish.
Video lag issue is gone thanks to said update. Watching some YouTube right now and sync is perfect.
Still prefer the sound of the Sony but the Bose is pretty damn good. Listening to a ton of death metal and they had all the heft and slam I needed. Bass is surprising for Bose.
The fit IS weird. I'm used to a deep IEM so at first I kept fiddling with them trying to "secure" them the way others do, and it took a minute to just stop and leave them be.
Yeah, they let in ambient noise, but it's not a big amount and they still keep a "full" sound. 
BOY they're secure. Like, I was doing rope jumps, lifting, pullups, muscle-ups, everything I could today and they didn't budge.
However, good gravy they look goofy. Like, I can't get over that. 
Weirdly enough, the design actually is BENEFICIAL if you wear a skullcap, because the hat can come down over the top half of the ears without even touching the housing since it sticks out. Strange look, convenient fit.
The buttons suck. Suck suck suck. They take WAY too much force to push, to the point that they'll get dislodged. Not a huge deal, just irritating.
Battery life is crazy impressive. I said before that 3hr is fine for the gym and it is, but there's still something wild about doing a 2hr workout and seeing 80%.
Oh my god making phone calls is miserable. Bad sound, one ear, it's all just bad. Fortunately I make very few calls.
So basically the Bose have become a fantastic "general use" that also work like gangbusters in the gym. The Sony is still a better "dedicated gym" set for me personally but I think I'm gonna keep the Bose. No imbalance, no hiss, great sound, battery life is nuts, comfy and secure.


----------



## Rickyearl

SomeGuyDude said:


> Workout complete. Observations about the Bose (which I admit I've tried before but this was the first hard workout I gave 'em)
> 
> 
> I have never seen a firmware update take that long. Like 40min from start to finish.
> ...


Wow - they fixed the lag issue.  That's good news.  That and the general goofyness of the design and implementation are what drove me away.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

Rickyearl said:


> Wow - they fixed the lag issue.  That's good news.  That and the general goofyness of the design and implementation are what drove me away.



I definitely feel like a doofus wearing the things because they stick out SO much, but I can deal with that. Everything else seems to be where I need it to be, so I'm gonna call 'em a winner. 

I did notice while walking the dog that wind can be one hell of an annoyance, but that's not really unique to these I don't think.


----------



## clerkpalmer

The Bose are a nice product.  SQ is excellent in a quiet environment.  I think Bose has a few gremlins in these though from sound imbalance, to perhaps insufficient sweat proofing.  Bose customer service is excellent though and they never gave me a hard time about exchanges.  I gave up after my 3rd pair died. Multipoint BT pairs is a really nice feature as well that I haven't seen on others.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

Died completely? How long did they last?


----------



## happytoon

More info on the Audio Technica ATH-CKR7TW!  sounds promising... 

Hi all, I am between the Momentum True Wireless and the ATH-CKR7TW.
I've just received an email from AT with more info and it looks promising (hopefully no drop out between earbuds as they also use BT rather than NFMI):

_"Hi
Thanks for your email, and for your potential interest in the ATH-CKR7TW.  Please find the answers to your questions as follows:_

_The ATH-CKR7TW is not certified for IPx, as we only go through this registration process for our sports headphones (such as the ATH-SPORT7TW equivalent, which is IPX5).  This being said, the CKR7TW should be OK to use for lighter sports activities where you would expect to perspire.  We would not recommend rinsing the CKR7TW under the tap after use, which can be achieved with the SPORT7TW._
_The two earbuds connect to each other using bluetooth, so that the data that is sent to the Left (master) is the same data then forwarded to the Right, to avoid multiple conversions._
_Audio-Technica Connect app:_
_Transparent Hearing_
_Volume and Playback Controls _
_Locator service (still in development)_
_Battery indicator_
_Codec selection_
_Voice Assistant setup_
_EQ settings are not currently available on the app._


_The CKR7TW do not have Comply tips provided in the box - the SPORT7TW do.  Comply tips are compatible with the CKR7TW, so these can be purchased separately if they are a requirement._
_ It will be possible to perform firmware updates through the Connect app in the future, as and when updates become available._
_We would need to confirm with R&D, but to our knowledge at this time, the CKR7TW do not have AptX Low Latency support or capability, so we are unable to suggest this may be available in the future at this time._
_We are currently expecting the ATH-CKR7TW to arrive into Europe around mid-December, but won't have firm dates until the products are ready for shipment._
_I hope this can answer your query, but if you do have any outstanding questions please don't hesitate to contact us again.
Best regards,
Tom"_


----------



## mikp

thanks for at, that I would want is to enable transparent hearing on the buds without using the app, like the 65t.


----------



## happytoon

The CKR7TW should be launched in Japan in Nov, so hopefully, more reviews before they reach Europe. 
The SQ from IFA listeners seems promising (with DAC, 11mm driver, etc). They are marketed as Hi-Fi (SR on the Japanese site).
I will wait for them and hopefully, they will come just on-time for Xmas !!!
The spec looks great for me, just hope there won't be any drop out between earbuds as they use the BT and not NFMI. 
Left Master is great as I will connect them to my watch (on the left wrist).
I might invest in some Comply foam to get a perfect seal and noise isolation.
I will still consider the Momentum TW and review when they are out, but so far the balance is tilting towards the AT side.


----------



## clerkpalmer

happytoon said:


> The CKR7TW should be launched in Japan in Nov, so hopefully, more reviews before they reach Europe.
> The SQ from IFA listeners seems promising (with DAC, 11mm driver, etc). They are marketed as Hi-Fi (SR on the Japanese site).
> I will wait for them and hopefully, they will come just on-time for Xmas !!!
> The spec looks great for me, just hope there won't be any drop out between earbuds as they use the BT and not NFMI.
> ...


Look promising but also delayed. I was told early November over month ago for US release. Lack of sweat proofing is a complete deal breaker.


----------



## david8613

Pretty cool idea.

https://www-cultofmac-com.cdn.amppr.../crazy-iphone-case-stows-and-charges-earbuds/


----------



## happytoon

clerkpalmer said:


> Look promising but also delayed. I was told early November over month ago for US release. Lack of sweat proofing is a complete deal breaker.



Someone else (on tweeter) also had a reply from AT with a "End of Nov" date for Germany. Perhaps they are being conservative with the date (in case they sold out in other countries first). They will be able to commit to a firm date, once shipments have been allocated by countries...
If my "translated Japanese" is correct, I believe they will be launched in Japan mid-Nov. I have seen the date of 19th Nov. So, we should see some real life review at some point in the near future.
If you want pure sweat and weather-proofing then you have to look at the Sport7TW which are resistant to water jet IPx5 (rain, rinse under the tap etc).
I think they are targeting 2 different markets with 2 devices: 
- the Audiophile (commuters etc) with the CKR7TW
- the active sporty people with the SPORT7TW
Makes sense to me.


----------



## clerkpalmer (Oct 30, 2018)

happytoon said:


> Someone else (on tweeter) also had a reply from AT with a "End of Nov" date for Germany. Perhaps they are being conservative with the date (in case they sold out in other countries first). They will be able to commit to a firm date, once shipments have been allocated by countries...
> If my "translated Japanese" is correct, I believe they will be launched in Japan mid-Nov. I have seen the date of 19th Nov. So, we should see some real life review at some point in the near future.
> If you want pure sweat and weather-proofing then you have to look at the Sport7TW which are resistant to water jet IPx5 (rain, rinse under the tap etc).
> I think they are targeting 2 different markets with 2 devices:
> ...


Yeah but I want the SQ and driver tech of the CKR7TW in a sweat proof version.  While I understand the marketing strategy, even the Senns and the M&D MW07 offer basic sweatproofing.  I can't imagine anyone buying TW buds with zero intention of using them for exercise.  Seems like the #1 intended purpose of a TW IEM would be for some level of active use.  I understand the marketing strategy and the jury is out on how different the SQ is between the two models, but I wish someone would put SQ first in a TW device that has some sweat proofing.  Maybe the Senns will pull it off.  Also (rant time), I continue to be annoyed with companies announcing things months before they are available for release and offering no release date.  The MW07 was announced and launched same day.  I wish more manufacturers would take notice of how to properly release a product.  At a minimum, don't announce until you have a fixed date and stick with it.

Edit:  FWIW, Audio46 website claims 11/1-11/15 for US arrival.


----------



## defbear (Oct 30, 2018)

Bose Soundsport Free comments. I’m not quoting the post above but I agree with almost everything ‘SomeGuyDude’ said earlier. Yes the first time I updated the firmware it took forever. The easy way to update Firmware on a Bose product is to go to btu.bose.com. The buttons on the buds were disappointing until I decided to practice with them a bit. It takes a very firm press but I no longer have them shift around when using the on-board controls. I have had mine 5-6 months with only one dropout. The buds do not fall out and do a fair job of shutting the outside world out. Now, the new Bose Masking Sleepbuds come with the very same style of Eartip but made from a softer and more flexible rubber. This new Bose Ear tip really does a great job of sealing out the outside world. I haven’t asked Bose if these are available for the Soundsport Free. Could be too floppy.
Aside from the ‘problem’ of phone calls only being heard in one earbud, The biggest complaint I’ve read about the Soundsport Free is (envelope please) “They stick out too far and I might look stupid” I don’t embarrass easily and when I do get embarrassed I don’t mind laughing along with the joke. First if you wear any of these things you will look a bit silly. Second I like the Bose look. Reminds me of some exotic science fiction device. As far as I’m concerned we are all are walking around gesturing on slates of glass so the Bose fit right in.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

Agreed. When I say they look goofy that's definitely not, to me, a dealbreaker. I can understand if it's something as absolutely insane as the AKG K1000 or Jecklyn Float, but I'm not buying these earbuds as a fashion statement. They're for a secure fit, good sound, and solid features. Bose nails 'em all. I still like the "deep" feel of the Sony more, but oddly enough (after back-n-forthing them) I found the Sony actually more liable to shift around in the ear with heavy movement despite the deeper insertion and purer seal. 

It does irk me that the Bose use a proprietary tip, I think that's a little... shall we say... on the scummy side. Fortunately they work well so I'm not going to complain too much.


----------



## jrm27

So, I got my Jabra Elite Actives yesterday. They're very nice. Work well in the gym and those things are not shaking loose even when I'm sprinting. SQ is okay, nothing amazing, but tweaking the EQ curve in the app helps substantially. Passthrough is nice.  My main complaint is that the microphone for calls is terrible. Multiple people I've called today have remarked how badly it sounds (it sounds like a tin can / am I on speaker across the room? / Is your phone broken? / I can barely hear you/understand you, etc..) Is that par for the course? The first set of TW I had was the Bragi "the headphone". They lacked in many places, however, their microphone never brought out that response. They advertise it as a "bone mic". Am I missing something with these jabras? I definitely couldn't use these to make calls for business/work.


----------



## Firevortex

jrm27 said:


> So, I got my Jabra Elite Actives yesterday. They're very nice. Work well in the gym and those things are not shaking loose even when I'm sprinting. SQ is okay, nothing amazing, but tweaking the EQ curve in the app helps substantially. Passthrough is nice.  My main complaint is that the microphone for calls is terrible. Multiple people I've called today have remarked how badly it sounds (it sounds like a tin can / am I on speaker across the room? / Is your phone broken? / I can barely hear you/understand you, etc..) Is that par for the course? The first set of TW I had was the Bragi "the headphone". They lacked in many places, however, their microphone never brought out that response. They advertise it as a "bone mic". Am I missing something with these jabras? I definitely couldn't use these to make calls for business/work.



had that issue before when the ear tips were pushing the buds out more but fix it when i adjust the angling of the mic INWARDS lower down toward the jawline. if you have the mics around 45 degrees or towards your mouth slightly outwards it would pick up all sort of crappy noises and make it sound thin.


----------



## albau (Oct 31, 2018)

jrm27 said:


> So, I got my Jabra Elite Actives yesterday. They're very nice. Work well in the gym and those things are not shaking loose even when I'm sprinting. SQ is okay, nothing amazing, but tweaking the EQ curve in the app helps substantially. Passthrough is nice.  My main complaint is that the microphone for calls is terrible. Multiple people I've called today have remarked how badly it sounds (it sounds like a tin can / am I on speaker across the room? / Is your phone broken? / I can barely hear you/understand you, etc..) Is that par for the course? The first set of TW I had was the Bragi "the headphone". They lacked in many places, however, their microphone never brought out that response. They advertise it as a "bone mic". Am I missing something with these jabras? I definitely couldn't use these to make calls for business/work.


I have regular 65t elites and do a lot of business conference calls. Never heard any complaints from anybody on the other end. Maybe Jabras and your phone don’t like each other?


----------



## jrm27

albau said:


> I have regular 65t elites and do a lot of business conference calls. Never heard any complaints from anybody on the other end. Maybe Jabras and your phone don’t like each other?


Perhaps? I'm using an iphone 7. However, I have no other phone to try this out with. My wife is using an iphone 7 as well, so using hers probably wont reveal anything. 



Firevortex said:


> had that issue before when the ear tips were pushing the buds out more but fix it when i adjust the angling of the mic INWARDS lower down toward the jawline. if you have the mics around 45 degrees or towards your mouth slightly outwards it would pick up all sort of crappy noises and make it sound thin.


That's possible. I tried to spin the headphones uncomfortably towards the jawline. Didnt seem to make a difference... hmmm..


----------



## Silvermane

I've had the 65t for almost 2 weeks now. At first I wasn't impressed mainly due to the sound signature and was actually considering sending them back. The app's EQ didn't help anything either... thought it was pretty rubbish. Tried adjusting via the built-in EQ for my S9+ which improved it slightly but never to the point I was going to be impressed. They sounded veiled, plasticky and with forced bass response (probably from over-EQ-ing to attempt to make up for the total lack of any kind of bass impact)...BUT.... then I changed tips to some bog-standard ones I had laying around and everything changed!
I have seen the tip mods in this thread but I didn't even need them. When I first tried it out, the fit was obviously too loose and taking the TW's out would leave the tip in my ear every time 
I found however that if you push the tips further up on the body, without any need for a mod, you could actually slide them beyond the initial point and have them grip further up the stem so now the tips never come off by themselves. This also allowed me to better position the actual body in my ears as well. Better fit AND hugely better sound!
The seal is so good now that passive noise canceling has increased substantially which in turn makes you appreciate the hear-through feature a lot more.

On the microphone front, everything is great when you use them in a quiet environment and my wife has commented that the SQ is great. When you're out and about in a noisy environment however, that changes tremendously and they pick up anything and everything around you. Leaving both earpieces in at that point makes you very hard to understand to the other party.
What I've come up with however, is to do exactly as you would with wired earphones where you keep the mic in your hand close to your mouth as you walk around. In this case you just take one earpiece out and use it as the mic close to your mouth. It works really well and even though there is still a lot of extraneous noise that gets picked up, at least your voice will come across quite clear. Just make sure you keep the sensor covered for the earpiece that you have taken out so that it stays connected and switched on.

All in all I now absolutely love my Jabra's and there is no way I would send them back. Great battery, hear-through, small case, good fit, good SQ, doesn't stick out of your ears in the same way other ones do, price I paid was at 40% discount... couldn't be happier and I can't envisage myself going back to full wired or BT wired.

Only remaining niggle is the left bias in terms of volume which I also suffer from. Here's hoping Jabra will implement a balance feature in their app!!!


----------



## mikp (Nov 1, 2018)

I tried that before, never got a good seal since they did not go in enough.
edit..

After going through all my tips again, I finally found the ones that fit pulled all the way up and create a seal. Going to test that.


----------



## chinmie

i think me ears are deformed...now the 65t sit snug on my ears with only the stock L tips, doesn't break seal when i look up or lay down my head on the bed, and it also not painful to wear anymore.. weird 

now all it need is to fix that dreaded channel imbalance

on the side note, i have Earin M2 incoming, might reach my home tomorrow. can't wait to test it out against the WF1000X and 65T


----------



## Firevortex

jrm27 said:


> That's possible. I tried to spin the headphones uncomfortably towards the jawline. Didnt seem to make a difference... hmmm..



could be a faulty mic. no wonder they have so many refurbished units on sale


----------



## gimster (Nov 1, 2018)

webvan said:


> Both of these look like some generic TWS earbuds you can find by the gallon on Amazon ? I'm under the impression that the telltale sign that separates these from the better ones (Jabra, Sony, Bose, etc...) is the lack of a transparency mode. Something that's rather useful too !
> 
> The Pamu Scroll sound a bit too good to be true on Indiegogo at $39 instead of $149...and no transparency either.


I just received my order of the Pamu Scroll yesterday. The charging case is really pretty and they sound good too. I've put Symbio Mandarines N tips on them and will try running with them today.


----------



## chinmie

gimster said:


> I just received my order of the Pamu Scroll yesterday. The charging case is really pretty and they sound good too. I've put Symbio Mandarines N tips on them and will try running with them today.



i also ordered this a few days ago, should be shipped this month to me. so how do they compare to your other TWS? does it feel like it's worth $39 or the full price $150 in overall?


----------



## mikp

chinmie said:


> i also ordered this a few days ago, should be shipped this month to me. so how do they compare to your other TWS? does it feel like it's worth $39 or the full price $150 in overall?



These will never be 149$, probably 49$ without sale or coupon on aliexpress under the name tronsmart


----------



## SomeGuyDude

Red flag on the Pamu Scroll is their little chart saying that they have "great bass" while the Sony and Jabra don't. Buckle up for some bass monsters.


----------



## bedlamite

SomeGuyDude said:


> Red flag on the Pamu Scroll is their little chart saying that they have "great bass" while the Sony and Jabra don't. Buckle up for some bass monsters.


It's just marketing to the mainstream. I own the E8s, Anker's Liberty+ and I just got the Pamu in, the bass definitely bumps harder than the E8 (which still has the cleanest sound out of all the wireless buds I've tried), but it's not loose like the Liberty's.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

B&O tends to be pretty light on the bass for sure. I just found it rather surprising to talk about the Sony and Jabra like they're bass-light, because that seems to indicate that theirs are gonna be very Beats-ish.


----------



## RunsWithScissors

SomeGuyDude said:


> Decided to take the 65t Actives for a spin again and wow there's still the left-side hiss and the weird "tinfoil" sound on that side. I refuse to believe that I'm the only one who hears this when it's happened with 2 pair of regular 65t and 2 pair of Actives.



Never had this problem on my Active 65ts and use them every day with iPhone 7, iPad Air and occasionally with Dell 7490 work laptop. Suggest you try another source even if you have to borrow a friend's phone temporarily to pair and check it out. Otherwise you've just had a run of bad QC luck. I do have a slight imbalance with the left side weighted more heavily than the right, but this is more typical. I may suggest to the Sound+ App developers to put in a SW control to help adjust, otherwise I just live with it as one of the few shortcomings from these earphones. Small number of compromises for all the benefits and the fact they just always work and are so convenient to carry and use.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

RunsWithScissors said:


> Never had this problem on my Active 65ts and use them every day with iPhone 7, iPad Air and occasionally with Dell 7490 work laptop. Suggest you try another source even if you have to borrow a friend's phone temporarily to pair and check it out. Otherwise you've just had a run of bad QC luck. I do have a slight imbalance with the left side weighted more heavily than the right, but this is more typical. I may suggest to the Sound+ App developers to put in a SW control to help adjust, otherwise I just live with it as one of the few shortcomings from these earphones. Small number of compromises for all the benefits and the fact they just always work and are so convenient to carry and use.



Tried it with a pixel, same deal. It even made the hiss/crinkle sound just in the on/off sound. That's four pairs of Jabras that did that, two Elite and two Elite Active. Either I have extraordinarily terrible luck in picking up only the ones with QC problems or this is an extremely pervasive issue with this model. Swapped to the Bose and those are what I'm sticking with.


----------



## chinmie

just got the Earin M2 yesterday. my my...it's a beautiful and well put together piece of product, so small and discreet, good connection, and good balanced single BA typical type of sound. haven't compare it directly to my 65T and WF1000X

but boy oh boy...this thing took sooo long to update itself it's like updating an old windows computer


----------



## Fishwater

I just got the Elite Active 65ts & while I’m overall really happy with them the imbalance issue is disappointing. They need to add a level or balance control to the app. It’s a shame that they could do so much right but get that part wrong. I’m on the fence about returning them but the options from other manufacturers don’t look that much better. I’ve read a few threads where people reloaded the software & the channel imbalance disappeared then came back but I’m wondering if it’s not a hardware concern like one driver being a few dB off? Otherwise sound quality is good, pairing is excellent, battery life excellent & the comfort is great although I wish it was easier to fit aftermarket tips. So close & maybe for now as good as it gets?


----------



## clerkpalmer

Fishwater said:


> I just got the Elite Active 65ts & while I’m overall really happy with them the imbalance issue is disappointing. They need to add a level or balance control to the app. It’s a shame that they could do so much right but get that part wrong. I’m on the fence about returning them but the options from other manufacturers don’t look that much better. I’ve read a few threads where people reloaded the software & the channel imbalance disappeared then came back but I’m wondering if it’s not a hardware concern like one driver being a few dB off? Otherwise sound quality is good, pairing is excellent, battery life excellent & the comfort is great although I wish it was easier to fit aftermarket tips. So close & maybe for now as good as it gets?



The problem with the imbalance issue is once you focus on it it’s hard to forget about it. I haven’t really noticed it on mine but if it’s there it’s slight and nowhere near as bad as how my Bose would sound.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

IMO if you need to use software to correct a balance issue that's a massive flaw in the product.

That said, my Bose are perfectly balanced (and I'm really sensitive to imbalances) so I got zero complaints.


----------



## SilverEars (Nov 3, 2018)

Fishwater said:


> I just got the Elite Active 65ts & while I’m overall really happy with them the imbalance issue is disappointing. They need to add a level or balance control to the app. It’s a shame that they could do so much right but get that part wrong. I’m on the fence about returning them but the options from other manufacturers don’t look that much better. I’ve read a few threads where people reloaded the software & the channel imbalance disappeared then came back but I’m wondering if it’s not a hardware concern like one driver being a few dB off? Otherwise sound quality is good, pairing is excellent, battery life excellent & the comfort is great although I wish it was easier to fit aftermarket tips. So close & maybe for now as good as it gets?


Rtings shows some imbalance, but you see this will various headphones due to not being tightly QC'd in driver matching. I looked at BeatsX to compare and matches almost identical on left and right.  Just looked at Sp700n as well, it's better matched as well.  The Jabra is rather poorly matched in comparison.  I thought it was due to fit, but doesn't seem to be the case.  That bass imbalance explains it, the sound stage sounded off to me.


----------



## james444 (Nov 3, 2018)

chinmie said:


> but boy oh boy...this thing took sooo long to update itself it's like updating an old windows computer



Lol, I had the same issue. I think it took almost two hours to update.

I agree the M2 is a beautiful product. Wishing you good luck regarding channel balance. In my case, once I changed the gain setting via the app, things started to go downhill...


----------



## Fishwater

SilverEars said:


> Rtings shows some imbalance, but you see this will various headphones due to not being tightly QC'd in driver matching. I looked at BeatsX to compare and matches almost identical on left and right.  Just looked at Sp700n as well, it's better matched as well.  The Jabra is rather poorly matched in comparison.  I thought it was due to fit, but doesn't seem to be the case.  That bass imbalance explains it, the sound stage sounded off to me.



Yep, that looks like what I’m hearing. I was thinking QC was off & they weren’t matching drivers causing the imbalance. Unfortunately even panning in software or level controls in the software never really “fix” the issue since the driver has different responses across the spectrum but usually it’s “good enough” for most people. I’ve experienced it in matched microphone pairs as well which is why it was instantly noticeable on first listen for me. 

Oh well, they do everything else pretty good, maybe if they add some panning in the software it will become less noticeable. Either way I think I’m going to keep them since the other options also have their faults.


----------



## chinmie

james444 said:


> Lol, I had the same issue. I think it took almost two hours to update.
> 
> I agree the M2 is a beautiful product. Wishing you good luck regarding channel balance. In my case, once I changed the gain setting via the app, things started to go downhill...



i haven't experienced channel balance issue yet on the M2, unlike the 65t. may you share what kind of specifics that went downhill after you changed the gain setting? 

i only experienced once: when i turned the gain on the app all the way down, it the earpiece suddenly stay silent, even when i tried to turn the gain up again. i have to put it back on the case for it to restart, then it would sound again. that was the only instance though, haven't found any trouble again


----------



## james444

chinmie said:


> i haven't experienced channel balance issue yet on the M2, unlike the 65t. may you share what kind of specifics that went downhill after you changed the gain setting?
> 
> i only experienced once: when i turned the gain on the app all the way down, it the earpiece suddenly stay silent, even when i tried to turn the gain up again. i have to put it back on the case for it to restart, then it would sound again. that was the only instance though, haven't found any trouble again



Here's the post that summarizes my impressions:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/goi...are-we-there-yet.861024/page-97#post-14554804

I changed the gain settings in the app to one step below max, because otherwise they would play too silently on some classical recordings. After that they started losing the gain balance on numerous occasions. It seemed to me as if they had trouble keeping the gain in sync between both earpieces, one track would play in correct balance and all at once the next track would have one channel louder than the other. I even downloaded and installed their beta app, which helped getting the earpieces back to sync without having to put them back into the case for restart. But in the end, the imbalance issue happend too frequently and I ran out of patience and returned them.


----------



## webvan (Nov 3, 2018)

On the 65t imbalance I've been playing with the settings on my computer (Win10 PC) to try to center the voice on music tracks and...it's not that easy. It seems the brain adapts to a slight imbalance so you have to exaggerate the shift and then work your way back. Anyway with 50 on the right I get the voice just about centered with 40 for the left. Now I do feel that for some reason the imbalance is worse on my computer than on my Android. I'm not aware of a setting to change the balance on an Android though (some Samsung phones have a native setting for that apparently). I also hear some hiss in the left ear on my computer when no audio is played that's not there with my Android.

With my Jabra Elite Sport it's the other way around but less so, I need 50 on the left and 47 on the right to achieve balance. Oddly the "imbalance" seems similar with them on my computer and my Android.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

That would drive me up a damn wall. Not sure I could ever tolerate it if I had that in mine.


----------



## jrm27 (Nov 3, 2018)

So, I'm gonna send back my Jabras.  I just can't make a call work well with these, I tried positioning them differently, rotating them further down, etc..., but if I need to pull one out of my ear and hold it to my mouth to make a phone call that can clearly be understood... well, that seems to defeat the point of having a handsfree true-wireless solution. I'm thinking of going back to the Bragi offerings for me. The sound was a bit sterile when I used "the headphone", but passable. Does anyone have any experience with the Dash or the Dash Pro?

I fully acknowledge that I may have got a lemon, as others have very positive things to say about cal quality with the Jabra.


----------



## TonySunshine

In Android Oreo, if you go to settings/accesibility/hearing, there is a system wide pan control. This is how I compensate for the channel imbalance on my Elite Actives. Pretty bad for me, I have to go 70/30 Biased to the right for the image to be center. Gonna try to automate this by using Tasker




webvan said:


> On the 65t imbalance I've been playing with the settings on my computer (Win10 PC) to try to center the voice on music tracks and...it's not that easy. It seems the brain adapts to a slight imbalance so you have to exaggerate the shift and then work your way back. Anyway with 50 on the right I get the voice just about centered with 40 for the left. Now I do feel that for some reason the imbalance is worse on my computer than on my Android. I'm not aware of a setting to change the balance on an Android though (some Samsung phones have a native setting for that apparently). I also hear some hiss in the left ear on my computer when no audio is played that's not there with my Android.
> 
> With my Jabra Elite Sport it's the other way around but less so, I need 50 on the left and 47 on the right to achieve balance. Oddly the "imbalance" seems similar with them on my computer and my Android.


----------



## webvan

Interesting thanks, I'm expecting a new Oreo phone anytime now so I'l experiment  70/30 is indeed pretty bad, did you find a test file to help with the centering (I looked on YT but didn't really find anything) or are you just using music ?


----------



## howdy

Any one here pre-order the Sennheiser being released this month.


----------



## clerkpalmer

howdy said:


> Any one here pre-order the Sennheiser being released this month.


I did. Waiting impatiently.


----------



## TonySunshine

nope no special test tracks or anything. I wasn't going for accurate, just wanted it to sound balanced to me so just did it by ear. Just watched this youtube video with center channel speech audio but anything should do


I think the panning option should be in Android Nougat and Marshmallow




webvan said:


> Interesting thanks, I'm expecting a new Oreo phone anytime now so I'l experiment  70/30 is indeed pretty bad, did you find a test file to help with the centering (I looked on YT but didn't really find anything) or are you just using music ?


----------



## alee

howdy said:


> Any one here pre-order the Sennheiser being released this month.


I pre-ordered as well. Hoping these will we worth of replacing my E8s.


----------



## Silvermane

TonySunshine said:


> In Android Oreo, if you go to settings/accesibility/hearing, there is a system wide pan control. This is how I compensate for the channel imbalance on my Elite Actives. Pretty bad for me, I have to go 70/30 Biased to the right for the image to be center. Gonna try to automate this by using Tasker



Legend!!!
Didn't even know that existed. Pretty much same here to balance it out 70/30 applied very arbitrarily.
Of course annoying that it has to be applied system wide and is not a setting specific to the Jabra's but I'll happily take this as a workaround for now.


----------



## chinmie

the 65T doesn't exhibit the imbalance with my Galaxy Tab S2 tablet (as well as my wife's Pixel 2). it's good because when it's balanced, the 65t is actually pretty good sounding and expansive in soundstage, but also irritating because on my daily phone (Note8) it tilted left like crazy...

i checked it with the driver matching test from https://www.audiocheck.net/soundtests_headphones.php

so this is definitely a software problem.

on other topic, I'm really digging the Earin M2 so much. this and the WF1000X have a great tuning and also different from each other that I'm happy with both of them. i also like how the M2 handles ambient sound compared to 65T. It uses a noise gate - like system that only opens if the sound passes certain volume threshold, while the 65T just outright opens the mic and passes everything. so no "ssssssss" static noise on the M2 with ambient mode turned on.

i do find it has some quirks like sometimes it turns to mono mode after it receives phone call, and after i pull one out of my ear (when i was tip rolling). i have to toggle the bluetooth or put it in the case so it resets.


----------



## webvan

chinmie said:


> i checked it with the driver matching test from https://www.audiocheck.net/soundtests_headphones.php



Thanks for the link, that looks like an interest tool and I get a lot of panning with the 65t, much more than with the Jabra Elite Sport or some of my other headphones.


----------



## chinmie (Nov 6, 2018)

anyone have/ordered this? tempting, but haven't found any english review on it yet

https://m.aliexpress.com/item/32919...d=3587amp-iHrm1jd2wLf8ErC_wCSJcg1541488512064


----------



## webvan

Link not working? I noticed the other day that they had some Jabra Sports Elite clones for about 50€...


----------



## Firevortex

chinmie said:


> anyone have/ordered this? tempting, but haven't found any english review on it yet
> 
> Bluetooth 5.0 True Wireless Earbuds waterproof Bluetooth Earphone Sport 3D Stereo Sound Earphones with Charging Box for Phone https://s.click.aliexpress.com/e/cjkAPplm



they are one of the best selling TWE around the $60 price bracket in Chinese shopping site Tmall. really good reviews. 

this is their similar priced competitor also fantastic reviews:
https://detail.tmall.com/item.htm?s...=1&abbucket=15&sku_properties=5919063:6536025


----------



## chinmie

webvan said:


> Link not working? I noticed the other day that they had some Jabra Sports Elite clones for about 50€...



sorry, I've fixed the link. apparently the link is not working from the AE app, so i have to link from the AE website.


----------



## webvan

Thanks working now. BA like the upcoming Sonys at a fraction of the price...no transparency mode it seems which is not a very good sign in my experience and not very convenient in any case. The reviews are good but they don't say if they've compared them to the usual suspects.


----------



## chinmie

the Sony still have the upper edge on ANC and onboard memory though.. i imagine using TWE for swimming would be patchy at best because of the water and the distance from the phone. this one's price is enticing, especially the BA version


----------



## smaragd

chinmie said:


> the Sony still have the upper edge on ANC and onboard memory though.. i imagine using TWE for swimming would be patchy at best because of the water and the distance from the phone. this one's price is enticing, especially the BA version





Firevortex said:


> they are one of the best selling TWE around the $60 price bracket in Chinese shopping site Tmall. really good reviews.
> 
> this is their similar priced competitor also fantastic reviews:
> https://detail.tmall.com/item.htm?s...=1&abbucket=15&sku_properties=5919063:6536025



my main concern with these OEM Chinese clones is their firmware updates... I assume that they would have to rely on the original manufacturer to provide firmware updates rather than fine-tuning themselves...


----------



## Tommy C

Based on my experience with all these OEM models is that you have zero support, limited warranty and sound quality and connection  is a hit and miss. 
The wireless market is tough and many things can go wrong and my preference would be to spend the money on a tried and tested product.


----------



## smaragd

Tommy C said:


> Based on my experience with all these OEM models is that you have zero support, limited warranty and sound quality and connection  is a hit and miss.
> The wireless market is tough and many things can go wrong and my preference would be to spend the money on a tried and tested product.


yes, I have to agree with you on this one


----------



## SomeGuyDude

Chi-Fi isn't a big deal when it's passive headphones, but no way in hell I'd get a set when things like firmware are a factor.


----------



## Fishwater

Tommy C said:


> Based on my experience with all these OEM models is that you have zero support, limited warranty and sound quality and connection  is a hit and miss.
> The wireless market is tough and many things can go wrong and my preference would be to spend the money on a tried and tested product.



My thoughts as well. For the $70-100 I'd rather spend a little more for a known entity that will offer support as well as firmware updates. I just don't see the value at that particular price point personally.


----------



## Rickyearl

smaragd said:


> yes, I have to agree with you on this one





Tommy C said:


> Based on my experience with all these OEM models is that you have zero support, limited warranty and sound quality and connection  is a hit and miss.
> The wireless market is tough and many things can go wrong and my preference would be to spend the money on a tried and tested product.



In the $50 Chi-fi market, I'd go with the Anker Soundcore Liberty Lites - they're $80 full price, but they've b een on sale for $50 3 or 4 times since they came out this summer.  Sound quality is OK (much better than you'd expect but not in the same ballpark as the E8 or Bose), they have 4+ hours of battery life, and build quality is pretty outstanding. Plus Anker isn't going anywhere in terms of support.  

They are my current gym/don't want to worry about losing IEMs.


----------



## albau

webvan said:


> ...no transparency mode it seems which is not a very good sign in my experience and not very convenient in any case...


Also those types of "cheap" wireless IEMs almost never have on-board volume controls. Not sure why, but to me that is also a bad omen and not terribly convenient.


----------



## god-bluff

albau said:


> Also those types of "cheap" wireless IEMs almost never have on-board volume controls. Not sure why, but to me that is also a bad omen and not terribly convenient.


The Sony wf1000x doesn't have volume controls.. No big deal just as easy to reach into your pocket and adjust the volume without looking as to fiddle with inevitably tiny controls on the earphone. As long as I can pause ffwd (actions which do require using the phones screen, I'm happy


----------



## SomeGuyDude

BTW I just snagged a OnePlus 6T and found this setting, so be aware of it if you have Android 9.0:







Just so you're not shortchanging yourself.


----------



## clerkpalmer

SomeGuyDude said:


> BTW I just snagged a OnePlus 6T and found this setting, so be aware of it if you have Android 9.0:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


What headphones are you using there?


----------



## SomeGuyDude

clerkpalmer said:


> What headphones are you using there?



Bose Soundsport Free, I just let the app pick a random name for them LOL


----------



## clerkpalmer

SomeGuyDude said:


> Bose Soundsport Free, I just let the app pick a random name for them LOL


Too funny. I just picked up a set of AudioQuest nighthawk carbons so I was thoroughly confused. I believe my bose named themselves “dragonslayer”


----------



## SomeGuyDude

clerkpalmer said:


> Too funny. I just picked up a set of AudioQuest nighthawk carbons so I was thoroughly confused. I believe my bose named themselves “dragonslayer”



How are the Carbons treating you? I've been really tempted to snag a set. Loved the originals.


----------



## clerkpalmer

SomeGuyDude said:


> How are the Carbons treating you? I've been really tempted to snag a set. Loved the originals.


Don't have them yet.  Arrive Thursday.  I previously sold all my gear and went wireless and now I'm back for more.  Off topic here but can you recommend a good portable amp sub 200?  I'm down to DF Red, ifi Nano or Topping NX.  I really would like to keep the cost down but don't want to short change myself over $50 long term.  iPhone user.  Mods, last off topic post I promise!


----------



## SomeGuyDude

clerkpalmer said:


> Don't have them yet.  Arrive Thursday.  I previously sold all my gear and went wireless and now I'm back for more.  Off topic here but can you recommend a good portable amp sub 200?  I'm down to DF Red, ifi Nano or Topping NX.  I really would like to keep the cost down but don't want to short change myself over $50 long term.  iPhone user.  Mods, last off topic post I promise!



My memory of the pairing was that the original Nighthawk + DF Red was ****ing awesome. I use the DFR with the Crossfade 2 Wireless and love the combo.


----------



## clerkpalmer

SomeGuyDude said:


> My memory of the pairing was that the original Nighthawk + DF Red was ****ing awesome. I use the DFR with the Crossfade 2 Wireless and love the combo.


Thanks. I keep coming back to that one. Only downside is the battery drain but by all accounts it’s a solid product. Gonna grab one. Do you prefer the Crossfade wired?


----------



## chinmie

clerkpalmer said:


> Don't have them yet.  Arrive Thursday.  I previously sold all my gear and went wireless and now I'm back for more.  Off topic here but can you recommend a good portable amp sub 200?  I'm down to DF Red, ifi Nano or Topping NX.  I really would like to keep the cost down but don't want to short change myself over $50 long term.  iPhone user.  Mods, last off topic post I promise!





SomeGuyDude said:


> My memory of the pairing was that the original Nighthawk + DF Red was ****ing awesome. I use the DFR with the Crossfade 2 Wireless and love the combo.



I sold my DFR and got a bluedac. as much as i like the sound of the DFR, the way it dangled from my phone was cumbersome, and i hate that it was bound to the android's volume... the volume step is too jumpy. also the Bluedac just sound better than DFR and have analog volume knob.

for sub 200 usd might want to check out the ES100. good sound and quite powerful amp

back to topic, Xiaomi is releasing a version of their true wireless targeted for usd 30 price
https://www.engadget.com/2018/11/06/xiaomi-true-wireless-airdots-earbuds/


----------



## clerkpalmer

chinmie said:


> I /





chinmie said:


> for sub 200 usd might want to check out the ES100. good sound and quite powerful amp



Interesting.  Compares favorably to DF Red.


----------



## chinmie

just want to check with others: this is the balance tuning that i have to do on my Jabra 65t (with Note8)


----------



## nanop.

Hello 
I am new on the forum but went by at least 10 pages of this thread to have some infos
Today I saw the new RHA trueconnect on amazon, any idea about them ??


----------



## clerkpalmer (Nov 7, 2018)

nanop. said:


> Hello
> I am new on the forum but went by at least 10 pages of this thread to have some infos
> Today I saw the new RHA trueconnect on amazon, any idea about them ??


Reviews are scarce at the moment.  In typical RHA fashion, they released a few, sold out, and it's been almost a month and they are still not available.  This happened with the MA750 wireless as well.  Almost seems like they do it on purpose.  Edit:  it's also strange that no commercial reviews are available.  I wonder what typo of embargo RHA requires.


----------



## jrm27

Sent back my Jabra Elite Actives today, and I've got a set of Samsung Gear Icon X coming. Looking for something with great call quality, and I saw a review that touted its calling microphones.  So, we'll see. If these don't hit the mark, I'll probably just go back to the Bragi Headphone, or pick up a cheap pair of anker liberty elites or something and just not worry about the calling feature. Thanks for all the info everyone, this is really helpful!


----------



## clerkpalmer

nanop. said:


> Hello
> I am new on the forum but went by at least 10 pages of this thread to have some infos
> Today I saw the new RHA trueconnect on amazon, any idea about them ??



Welp, just on cue:  https://www.soundguys.com/rha-trueconnect-review-20687/


----------



## webvan

No transparency mode ? Hum...

Wonder how much of an original design this is...


----------



## clerkpalmer

clerkpalmer said:


> Welp, just on cue:  https://www.soundguys.com/rha-trueconnect-review-20687/


I wish reviewers would quit using airpods as a reference point. Other than battery life, airpods are meh. A far better comparison would be against the Jabra and Bose. If the standard is air pods, then I can't judge these at all.


----------



## nanop.

That's what I call luck
Well they look pretty good, but what do you think about the noexistance of aptx codec ? Everywhere I read that s a big plus for the sound quality
Are they worthy?


----------



## Rickyearl

clerkpalmer said:


> Welp, just on cue:  https://www.soundguys.com/rha-trueconnect-review-20687/



What's the general thought on soundguys reviews?  I've thought in the past that they were generally solid, but their review on the E8 seemed so far off the mark it was crazy.  They dinged it for weird stuff like a "huge logo" (a complaint that takes up almost 30 seconds of their 7 minute-video), being listed as having "water resistance" but not "sweat resistance" (without doing anything to check on that). Then they said it had no bass and too detailed treble, autoconnect issues, and "the longest bluetooth delay of any wireless earbuds".  On the plus side, they said it had great battery life compared to other wireless IEMs and they loved how well the touch controls worked.  https://www.soundguys.com/bang-and-olufsen-beoplay-e8-review-18958/

All of that is pretty-much diametrically opposed to every other review, professional or otherwise, that I've seen on the E8. 

Then on the comments to their video review they got a little testy about some of the responses that pointed out those issues.



See, for example, their response on the comments by "Le John."


Now their review of the RHAs says things like "This is by far and away the most handsome true wireless charging case" despite the existence of the MW08, or the E8, or the Earins, etc.  Reading the whole thing, it's inconsistent at best.


----------



## clerkpalmer

Rickyearl said:


> What's the general thought on soundguys reviews?  I've thought in the past that they were generally solid, but their review on the E8 seemed so far off the mark it was crazy.  They dinged it for weird stuff like a "huge logo" (a complaint that takes up almost 30 seconds of their 7 minute-video), being listed as having "water resistance" but not "sweat resistance" (without doing anything to check on that). Then they said it had no bass and too detailed treble, autoconnect issues, and "the longest bluetooth delay of any wireless earbuds".  On the plus side, they said it had great battery life compared to other wireless IEMs and they loved how well the touch controls worked.  https://www.soundguys.com/bang-and-olufsen-beoplay-e8-review-18958/
> 
> All of that is pretty-much diametrically opposed to every other review, professional or otherwise, that I've seen on the E8.
> 
> ...




Soundguys is just okay.  I enjoy reading the reviews but find they don't focus enough on SQ for me which is always #1 most important.  As I mentioned above, by comparing the RHA to the airpods, they haven't really offered me anything.  I understand that airpods are a decent product, but they are long in the tooth and have been surpassed in the market for quite some time.  At least tell me how the RHA compares to the Jabra which is the current benchmark.  


Rickyearl said:


> What's the general thought on soundguys reviews?  I've thought in the past that they were generally solid, but their review on the E8 seemed so far off the mark it was crazy.  They dinged it for weird stuff like a "huge logo" (a complaint that takes up almost 30 seconds of their 7 minute-video), being listed as having "water resistance" but not "sweat resistance" (without doing anything to check on that). Then they said it had no bass and too detailed treble, autoconnect issues, and "the longest bluetooth delay of any wireless earbuds".  On the plus side, they said it had great battery life compared to other wireless IEMs and they loved how well the touch controls worked.  https://www.soundguys.com/bang-and-olufsen-beoplay-e8-review-18958/
> 
> All of that is pretty-much diametrically opposed to every other review, professional or otherwise, that I've seen on the E8.
> 
> ...


----------



## nanop.

well but on some products they got it right, i'll wait for some others review to be sure, and there are the earbuds from audiotechnica coming out + the momentum ( but the price is somewhere else)


----------



## Hoplite

clerkpalmer said:


> Soundguys is just okay.  I enjoy reading the reviews but find they don't focus enough on SQ for me which is always #1 most important.  As I mentioned above, by comparing the RHA to the airpods, they haven't really offered me anything.  I understand that airpods are a decent product, but they are long in the tooth and have been surpassed in the market for quite some time.  At least tell me how the RHA compares to the Jabra which is the current benchmark.


Some claimed RHA sounded better than B&O E8 and 65t on Amazon uk. It's not substantial but still something at this moment.


----------



## kiwikozo

I have pre-ordered the Sennheiser Momentum True Wireless, they say mid-November but I wish the date was more accurate. 

I'm not a fan of when companies announce consumer tech products and make you wait more than 2 months before they're available to buy. I'm hoping to receive them by Friday the 16th next week. 

I'm really looking forward to receiving them since Sennheiser make the most comfortable in ears (in my opinion). Perfect for the gym and I'm guessing they will outperform all other "true wireless buds".


----------



## clerkpalmer

kiwikozo said:


> I'm not a fan of when companies announce consumer tech products and make you wait more than 2 months before they're available to buy.



Me neither. Ridiculous.


----------



## Firevortex

nanop. said:


> That's what I call luck
> Well they look pretty good, but what do you think about the noexistance of aptx codec ? Everywhere I read that s a big plus for the sound quality
> Are they worthy?



do a search on this thread a few ppl have already gotten this abomination and returned them. might as well buy China brand TWE with no firmware support.

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/goi...re-we-there-yet.861024/page-102#post-14561239


----------



## SomeGuyDude

kiwikozo said:


> I'm not a fan of when companies announce consumer tech products and make you wait more than 2 months before they're available to buy. I'm hoping to receive them by Friday the 16th next week.



Yeah and I'm tired of movies showing "trailers" and crap when I can't go see them! No one should ever announce anything until it's already released!


----------



## kiwikozo

We're all secretly like impatient children but what do Sennheiser expect after taking so long to finally release a pair of true wireless.....


----------



## Fishwater

I’ve been spending more time with my Elite 65t’s & while the balance is still obviously shifted to the left I’ve come to appreciate the other aspects of them. I’m extremely impressed with how they can connect to multiple devices at the same time flawlessly every time, for instance listening to music off my iPad & when a call comes in to my Pixel 2 how it switches over to the phone pausing music on the of their device until the call is complete then switching back all without a hiccup, impressive. Sound quality is solid but before I start a new thread I have a question about portable amps. Maybe I’m missing it but are there portable amps that transmit via Bluetooth? I see plenty that receive via Bluetooth but not seeing ones that will transmit to wireless phones like the Jabra’s?


----------



## nc8000

Fishwater said:


> I’ve been spending more time with my Elite 65t’s & while the balance is still obviously shifted to the left I’ve come to appreciate the other aspects of them. I’m extremely impressed with how they can connect to multiple devices at the same time flawlessly every time, for instance listening to music off my iPad & when a call comes in to my Pixel 2 how it switches over to the phone pausing music on the of their device until the call is complete then switching back all without a hiccup, impressive. Sound quality is solid but before I start a new thread I have a question about portable amps. Maybe I’m missing it but are there portable amps that transmit via Bluetooth? I see plenty that receive via Bluetooth but not seeing ones that will transmit to wireless phones like the Jabra’s?



Why would you want an amp ?
All processing and amplication happens in the phones so there would be no difference wether the signal comes from a phone, tablet or said amp (if one exists).


----------



## Fishwater

nc8000 said:


> Why would you want an amp ?
> All processing and amplication happens in the phones so there would be no difference wether the signal comes from a phone, tablet or said amp (if one exists).



Sorry, I realized I wasn’t exactly clear in that request after I posted it. Sometimes while listening to the Jabra’s I could use a little more volume. Perfect example was using them while on my lawn tractor, in that case a little more power is appreciated so I can hear more of the music vs tractor engine/music. In those cases with a wireless headphone your pretty much stuck with what the source is outputting for volume correct or is there another way to increase output?


----------



## nc8000

Fishwater said:


> Sorry, I realized I wasn’t exactly clear in that request after I posted it. Sometimes while listening to the Jabra’s I could use a little more volume. Perfect example was using them while on my lawn tractor, in that case a little more power is appreciated so I can hear more of the music vs tractor engine/music. In those cases with a wireless headphone your pretty much stuck with what the source is outputting for volume correct or is there another way to increase output?



On BT all amplification is done by the amp in the earpiecese so (at least to my understanding) the loudness should be the same no matter what device sends the signal to the earpieces and is exclusively limited by the amp in the earpieces


----------



## Fishwater

nc8000 said:


> On BT all amplification is done by the amp in the earpiecese so (at least to my understanding) the loudness should be the same no matter what device sends the signal to the earpieces and is exclusively limited by the amp in the earpieces



Thank you, that makes perfect sense.


----------



## jant71

kiwikozo said:


> We're all secretly like impatient children but what do Sennheiser expect after taking so long to finally release a pair of true wireless.....



Finally?? They have had one for years...


----------



## GJ2890 (Nov 8, 2018)

Hi.

I finally get the EOZ Air (kickstarter project) 2 weeks ago. A brief feedback :

- External quality is better than I tought, the finish looks pretty good for a Kickstarter product made in China. The charging case is not very small, but it does the job. The link between case and in-ears is magnetic.
- The sound : it is just passable. Ok for commuting, running... but not even close to my sennheiser momentum HD free (and I don't talk of my wired in-ear ES3...). It is not "high-res sound" in any case.EOZ promised APTX at the beginning of the project and during the production they finally chose a chip which supports only SBC/AAC. A huge letdown. They use BT 5.0.
- The design : what I like the most : With the external "antenna", the fit is secured. Perfect for running. I hope a brand like jays, sennheiser or A-T will produce a TW with a similar design (I had a hope with jays, but the m-jays six wireless has a cable...)
- Isolation : with the foam tip included I got a very good isolation. Good point.
- The connection : very strong, I didn't encounter a single drop since I got them. Good point too.
- The battery : EOZ claims 4h/charge and up to 90 hrs with the case. For now I didn't have to recharge the case a single time. So I guess it's a good sign.
- Touch control option : crappy. Just forget it.
- Application : for now, no app, but it is supposed to arrive later
- Latence : Noticeable.
- Others : my unit doesn't suffer from any problem, but the feedbacks of many backer show a lot a defective unit : was the quality control good enough ?
- Price quality ratio : 79 seems ok in regards of the sound quality and the design (it was the "early bird" price) . 99 is passable ("kickstarter normal price". more than 149 (retail price) seems too expensive.

General impressions : it is my first true wireless set. I have the momentum HD free (necklace wireless style), and after trying the EOZ, I'm totally conviced that TW is the future of bluetooth in-ear headphones. Even tough the sennheiser sounds really better, I find the conveniency of having litterally no wire to be a very enjoyable thing
So...I'm now sure I will get the momentum TW 


I will try to post some photos later


----------



## nc8000

GJ2890 said:


> Hi.
> 
> I finally get the EOZ Air (kickstarter project) 2 weeks ago. A brief feedback :
> 
> ...



Yes no wires at all is really addictive


----------



## SomeGuyDude

People need to realize that not having aptX is not, by any stretch, the primary limiting factor in the SQ of these headphones. It's good to have those codecs, and there is a (subtle) difference between SBC/AAC/aptX, but a bad sounding headset via SBC isn't going to turn into a good one with aptX. This isn't like going from 128kbps to 320, the bitrate on SBC is 345kbps for stereo and it's 352kbps for aptX with both doing 16/44.1KHz. Noise and latency worse on SBC but it's not that significant of a difference and I doubt many of us are using these in rock-silent environments anyway.

To put it another way, the VModa Crossfade via SBC still sounds better than the Sony XM10002 running LDAC despite the latter's codec being stunningly better, and if you swap from codec to codec as you go along you're likely not going to notice a difference SQ-wise unless you're paying _incredibly_ close attention. If your TWIEMs don't sound good, the lack of aptX isn't why and if the company adds it in the next iteration it won't suddenly make them sound much better.


----------



## nanop.

i have a little question for you,
if the SBC bitrate is 345kbps and the aptX 352kbps, so the fact that for expl bluetooth 5.0 can go to 2mbps is somehow useless, if the codec by itself can get to that rate ? 
and do you think i should wait for some earbuds knowing that i m not gonna put more than 200 euros 
or should i go with the samsung iconX 2018 or maybe the jabra 65t ? 
thanks


----------



## Peddler

I had the V-Moda Crossfade Wireless and must admit I loved their sound characteristics but replaced them with the Sony WH1000xm2's and haven't looked back. When connected via LDAC their sound quality is truly excellent in my opinion.

Whilst I would be first to admit that my hearing isn't as good as it was twenty (or thirty) years ago,  I can still easily tell the difference between SBC and APTX - even on the inexpensive headphones sold on Amazon.

Where the V-Moda Crossfade Wireless did have the edge was in the quality of their amplification and build quality.


----------



## chinmie

SomeGuyDude said:


> People need to realize that not having aptX is not, by any stretch, the primary limiting factor in the SQ of these headphones. It's good to have those codecs, and there is a (subtle) difference between SBC/AAC/aptX, but a bad sounding headset via SBC isn't going to turn into a good one with aptX. This isn't like going from 128kbps to 320, the bitrate on SBC is 345kbps for stereo and it's 352kbps for aptX with both doing 16/44.1KHz. Noise and latency worse on SBC but it's not that significant of a difference and I doubt many of us are using these in rock-silent environments anyway.
> 
> To put it another way, the VModa Crossfade via SBC still sounds better than the Sony XM10002 running LDAC despite the latter's codec being stunningly better, and if you swap from codec to codec as you go along you're likely not going to notice a difference SQ-wise unless you're paying _incredibly_ close attention. If your TWIEMs don't sound good, the lack of aptX isn't why and if the company adds it in the next iteration it won't suddenly make them sound much better.



yup, but still if the company promised aptx and give sbc instead, it would still sting a bit 
i had that experience when i bought a bluetooth cable and the seller said it has aptx, when in fact it is not. it still sounds good and convenient to use, so i let it slide 

while on my devices that do support aptx and higher, it does make a noticeable difference (albeit subtle) especially on higher trebles. not a problem listening to busy modern pop music though.. but acoustics would be noticable. i like using bluetooths at home also as i like being mobile. in fact, come to think of it, all of my gears are bluetooth based, even my dac amp


----------



## happytoon

*Audio Technica True Wireless (ATH-CKR7TW) released in Japan today,* available for purchase. Hopefully some reviews soon.

So far, a few reviews already appeared online (in Japanese!) and they seem to all praise the excellent near Hi-Fi sound quality, matching wired headphone SQ, but what about features?

Looking at the Japanese user manual (thanks to a translation app), These seem to be pure audiophile headphones. No mention of convenience features such as "transparent hearing", Smart assistant etc ...
The earbuds have 1 physical button on top each (ie unlikely to resist sweat). This is used for basic control, ie play/pause, fast forward/ back, volume up/down and take a call/hang hang-up. nothing more.
1 mic on the right earbud only, ie no "transparent hearing". This is important to me as I want a strong passive isolation (comply foam) and want to be able to ear (on demand) my surrounding without having to take the earbuds off all the time...
So far this is not a feature in these...a pity really, 

A few weeks back, I got an email from Audio Technica in response to my question.
The AT support guy mentioned that the AT Connect app will enable "Transparent Hearing ...and Voice Assistant Setup". 
So far no mention of this anywhere... (not on the Google app store Connect app page updated yesterday, either).

I might have to reconsider the Momentum True Wireless then...
Hopefully more reviews in English language soon.


----------



## webvan

That's interesting thanks ! Any word on the passive isolation ? Since they're "audiophile" chances are they won't isolation much to provide a wider soundstage like with the Bose and unlike others like the Jabras. I for one would rather have isolation.


----------



## clerkpalmer

happytoon said:


> *Audio Technica True Wireless (ATH-CKR7TW) released in Japan today,* available for purchase. Hopefully some reviews soon.
> 
> I might have to reconsider the Momentum True Wireless then...
> Hopefully more reviews in English language soon.



Biggest issue for me here is no sweat proofing at all from at.  They also look a little ridiculous.  I just bought the at mx50bt cans yesterday... looking forward to them.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

AT and Senn doing true wireless with no consideration for sport usage is disheartening. Don't need to be swim-proof but it'd be nice for them to have sweat resistance and whatnot.


----------



## clerkpalmer

SomeGuyDude said:


> AT and Senn doing true wireless with no consideration for sport usage is disheartening. Don't need to be swim-proof but it'd be nice for them to have sweat resistance and whatnot.



I believe the Senns are IPX4.  Probably not something you'd want to drench with sweat but I'll trust them more than the AT.


----------



## chinmie

https://s.click.aliexpress.com/e/uWs0quu

it's finally here, alas it has no aptx and has a rather clunky charging method...


----------



## SomeGuyDude

clerkpalmer said:


> I believe the Senns are IPX4.  Probably not something you'd want to drench with sweat but I'll trust them more than the AT.



Oh really? Might have to look into that when they come out...


----------



## clerkpalmer

SomeGuyDude said:


> Oh really? Might have to look into that when they come out...



For that reason, they have the edge on the AT at least for me.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

clerkpalmer said:


> For that reason, they have the edge on the AT at least for me.



Speaking personally I just prefer Senn to AT. The full-size Momentums and even the Urbanite sounded far better than AT's offerings at that price bracket (to my ears the M50/x is heavily overrated). So hopefully these will go well.


----------



## SilverEars

chinmie said:


> https://s.click.aliexpress.com/e/uWs0quu
> 
> it's finally here, alas it has no aptx and has a rather clunky charging method...


Anything like this on Amazon?


----------



## Blueshound24 (Nov 10, 2018)

Sorry to say I have not been following this thread. And I'm not sure if this has been discussed, but I would guess it probably has.

But has anyone compared sound characteristics of the Jabra Elite 65t vs Sony WF-1000X vs B&O E8?

And secondly, are these considered some of the best wireless IEM's out there?

For what it's worth, my favorite full size cans are the Elear and/or the D7000. I realize you cannot compare full size cans to IEM'S, I just threw that out there to give my preference of sound signature. I wonder which wireless IEM might be closest to that sound signature? TIA.


----------



## Rickyearl

SomeGuyDude said:


> To put it another way, the VModa Crossfade via SBC still sounds better than the Sony XM10002 running LDAC despite the latter's codec being stunningly better,



Maybe, but the Crossfades are still stunningly ugly.


----------



## SilverEars (Nov 9, 2018)

Rickyearl said:


> Maybe, but the Crossfades are still stunningly ugly.


Plus no ANC.  There are practical reasons for the 1000XM series.

I don't like the way crossfades look either.


----------



## nc8000 (Nov 9, 2018)

Just received a set of Havit G1 today. Build seems fine and the fit with medium flanges and large tips is very good possible even better the the Beosound E8. Pairing was easy and fast. Sound seems to be perfectly acceptable. They are supposed to have touch control on the outer surfaces but so far I can not get them to register anything what so ever but that does not really bother me, I hardly ever use the controls on the E8 anyway. Have not tried them with phone calls yet but again I hardly ever need that, they are for listening to music and audio books from my iPhone. Will se how long they last on a charge. Will miss the ambient sound option from the E8 but other than that for my use (if they last 3-4 hours on a charge) they seem very good value at $60 shipped to Denmark.

EDIT: It is not touch control, the long squiggle of the logo on either surface is a mechanical button. It works but is difficult to hit given that it is thin and long.


----------



## webvan

Thanks for the feedback, how's the isolation ? They must put a bit of pressure on the ear like the Jabra Sport Elite since they seem to be of a similar design ?


----------



## Spamateur

Just a heads up, Best Buy is selling the Jabra Elite 65t for $119.99 ($50 off) for Black Friday: https://www.bestbuy.com/site/jabra-...phones-titanium-black/6181245.p?skuId=6181245


----------



## jrm27

Amazon is as well. I just got the Samsung Gear Icon X in the mail. They are really comfortable, and a quick voice memo recording sounds WAY better on these. I must've got a bunk pair of refurbished jabras the first time through. Looks like a great deal!


----------



## nc8000

webvan said:


> Thanks for the feedback, how's the isolation ? They must put a bit of pressure on the ear like the Jabra Sport Elite since they seem to be of a similar design ?



Isolation is about the same as E8 so average to decent. The flanges are extremely soft so for me no pressure at all after 2 hours use, and the battery indicator on my iPhone is showing more than 50% charge left


----------



## clerkpalmer (Nov 9, 2018)

Spamateur said:


> Just a heads up, Best Buy is selling the Jabra Elite 65t for $119.99 ($50 off) for Black Friday: https://www.bestbuy.com/site/jabra-...phones-titanium-black/6181245.p?skuId=6181245



Even better deal here:  _https://www.shopmyexchange.com/jabra-elite-65t-titan-black-earbuds/1184775_

Edit: nevermind.  I see it's military only.  Cary on.


----------



## webvan

chinmie said:


> https://s.click.aliexpress.com/e/uWs0quu
> 
> it's finally here, alas it has no aptx and has a rather clunky charging method...



Thanks for the info, pretty expensive compared to the BT "cable" version https://www.aliexpress.com/item/New...-Earphone-2PIN-Cable-Use-For/32851070584.html (it has APT-X too) and it's not like I'm going to running with my TRN V80 however great they may sound


----------



## webvan

nc8000 said:


> Isolation is about the same as E8 so average to decent. The flanges are extremely soft so for me no pressure at all after 2 hours use, and the battery indicator on my iPhone is showing more than 50% charge left


That's good news because the E8 are among (if not THE) best TWS for isolation, even better than the J65T : https://www.rtings.com/headphones/t...ra-elite-65t/566/612#usage*5003!threshold*0.1


----------



## Spamateur

clerkpalmer said:


> Even better deal here:  _https://www.shopmyexchange.com/jabra-elite-65t-titan-black-earbuds/1184775_
> 
> Edit: nevermind.  I see it's military only.  Cary on.



Yeah that's for military and vets only. Plus the reseller reviews rating for that site doesn't inspire confidence. Yikes.


----------



## nc8000

webvan said:


> That's good news because the E8 are among (if not THE) best TWS for isolation, even better than the J65T : https://www.rtings.com/headphones/t...ra-elite-65t/566/612#usage*5003!threshold*0.1



SQ is probably not quiet up there with E8 but still perfectly acceptable


----------



## Fishwater

Spamateur said:


> Just a heads up, Best Buy is selling the Jabra Elite 65t for $119.99 ($50 off) for Black Friday: https://www.bestbuy.com/site/jabra-...phones-titanium-black/6181245.p?skuId=6181245



Thanks for the heads up! I'm heading back to Best Buy this weekend to see if they'll give me the $50 off & maybe grab another pair for the wife.


----------



## WCDchee

nc8000 said:


> SQ is probably not quiet up there with E8 but still perfectly acceptable



I STRONGLY recommend you try out tip rolling. I get fantastic results with the JVC spiral dots


----------



## nc8000

WCDchee said:


> I STRONGLY recommend you try out tip rolling. I get fantastic results with the JVC spiral dots



Tried them but didn’t find any substantial change. 

Just passed 4 hours play on a charge and the battery indicator just went down to 25%


----------



## webvan (Nov 9, 2018)

You said you saw the battery level on your iPhone, that means it comes with an app ?

@WCDchee - what is "tip rolling" ?


----------



## nc8000

webvan said:


> You said you saw the battery level on your iPhone, that means it comes with an app ?
> 
> @WCDchee - what is "tip rolling" ?



No but iOS displays the BT battery level in the BT icon top right. And it died shortly after giving about 4 hours 10 minutes on a charge so nearly the same as E8.

Tip rolling is trying all sorts of different tips on iem’s for different fit and sound


----------



## chinmie

SilverEars said:


> Anything like this on Amazon?



i don't know  but you could do a search for "TRB BT20"



webvan said:


> Thanks for the info, pretty expensive compared to the BT "cable" version https://www.aliexpress.com/item/New...-Earphone-2PIN-Cable-Use-For/32851070584.html (it has APT-X too) and it's not like I'm going to running with my TRN V80 however great they may sound



i don't think it support aptx. might just that seller that states so. i have the TRN BT1 that one seller says it has aptx (other sellers do not say that). i even asked via message for confirmation and the seller said it has aptx. I figured he might have the better "with aptx version" than other sellers because he sold it with slightly higher price.. . as it turns out when it arrived, it doesn't


----------



## SilverEars

webvan said:


> Thanks for the info, pretty expensive compared to the BT "cable" version https://www.aliexpress.com/item/New...-Earphone-2PIN-Cable-Use-For/32851070584.html (it has APT-X too) and it's not like I'm going to running with my TRN V80 however great they may sound


I'm looking for LDAC version, but probably not out there.  Or AptX LL, looking for low latency AptX


----------



## WCDchee

nc8000 said:


> Tried them but didn’t find any substantial change.
> 
> Just passed 4 hours play on a charge and the battery indicator just went down to 25%


Maybe it’s just the shape of my ears, I tend to get big changes with eartip changes.

I think the havit offers insane value for a Low cost, no frills TWS earphone if you don’t need the additional features.


----------



## nc8000

WCDchee said:


> Maybe it’s just the shape of my ears, I tend to get big changes with eartip changes.
> 
> I think the havit offers insane value for a Low cost, no frills TWS earphone if you don’t need the additional features.



Totally agree and so far not a single drop out


----------



## chinmie

Blueshound24 said:


> Sorry to say I have not been following this thread. And I'm not sure if this has been discussed, but I would guess it probably has.
> 
> But has anyone compared sound characteristics of the Jabra Elite 65t vs Sony WF-1000X vs B&O E8?
> 
> ...



the jabra has a full and clean sound but slightly splashy treble, while the sony has a wider stage, better separation, and has a more tube compressor sound tube to it compared to the jabra. the jabra is not bad, but i enjoy the sony much more. so much so that i would love to know if there is a wired iem with the same tuning (and maybe a better SQ) to the WF1000X

i only have little experience with true wireless, and my favorite sounding TW that I'd consider can compete to wired ones are the Earin M2 and the Sony WF1000X


----------



## WCDchee

nc8000 said:


> Totally agree and so far not a single drop out



The tuning actually works wonders when you’re out and about with ambient noise. I’m not one for bassy signatures but when i’m out it works great.

Plus the charging light on the case and the pulsating charging lights on the IEMs are insanely cool!!

I think the fit and finish of the product is unheard of for TWS products at this price range. The way the IEMs fit in magnetically and the way the shell closes magnetically, it’s really fun to play with haha.


----------



## nc8000

WCDchee said:


> The tuning actually works wonders when you’re out and about with ambient noise. I’m not one for bassy signatures but when i’m out it works great.
> 
> Plus the charging light on the case and the pulsating charging lights on the IEMs are insanely cool!!
> 
> I think the fit and finish of the product is unheard of for TWS products at this price range. The way the IEMs fit in magnetically and the way the shell closes magnetically, it’s really fun to play with haha.



Yes they seem to insanely good value for money. I would probably never have bought the E8 if these had been available a year ago


----------



## Hoplite

nc8000 said:


> Yes they seem to insanely good value for money. I would probably never have bought the E8 if these had been available a year ago


which product are you guys talking about again?


----------



## nc8000

Hoplite said:


> which product are you guys talking about again?



Havit G1 that I got shipped to Denmark for $60


----------



## WCDchee

nc8000 said:


> Yes they seem to insanely good value for money. I would probably never have bought the E8 if these had been available a year ago



I was so close to getting the E8. But my urges have been calmed with the havit haha.


----------



## david8613

chinmie said:


> https://s.click.aliexpress.com/e/uWs0quu
> 
> it's finally here, alas it has no aptx and has a rather clunky charging method...




This looks cool, do they have mccx version?


----------



## webvan

MMCX ? Yes it's one of the "colors" you can choose from.

I have just ordered the "wired" version I linked to yesterday for about $15 with the AE 11/11 sale.


----------



## nc8000

Havit G1 and Beoplay E8


----------



## webvan

webvan said:


> Thanks for the info, pretty expensive compared to the BT "cable" version https://www.aliexpress.com/item/New...-Earphone-2PIN-Cable-Use-For/32851070584.html (it has APT-X too) and it's not like I'm going to running with my TRN V80 however great they may sound


Price just dropped to 34$ for 3 days !

https://fr.aliexpress.com/item/TRN-...46-0-75mm-2-broches-pour-ZSR/32953436221.html


----------



## clerkpalmer

webvan said:


> Price just dropped to 34$ for 3 days !
> 
> https://fr.aliexpress.com/item/TRN-...46-0-75mm-2-broches-pour-ZSR/32953436221.html


What iems is everyone pairing with these? Does the cable version do AAC?


----------



## clerkpalmer

nc8000 said:


> Havit G1 and Beoplay E8


can you pair your thoughts in sq versus the e8?


----------



## WCDchee

clerkpalmer said:


> can you pair your thoughts in sq versus the e8?



E8 is leaner, tonally more balanced and accurate, bigger soundstage, more transparent. That said it can occasionally be a tad hot. The havit is smooth, with a midbass hump. It’s technically behind the e8, but quite frankly not what the price suggests.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

I do often wonder why "balanced" seems so often linked with "thin and weak"...


----------



## nc8000

WCDchee said:


> E8 is leaner, tonally more balanced and accurate, bigger soundstage, more transparent. That said it can occasionally be a tad hot. The havit is smooth, with a midbass hump. It’s technically behind the e8, but quite frankly not what the price suggests.



Yes that’s roughly my take as well. In a quiet environment the E8 is noticeably better but with ambient background noise the actual difference is really minimal. Also while the E8 feels more luxurious the G1 still seems very well constructed.


----------



## WCDchee

SomeGuyDude said:


> I do often wonder why "balanced" seems so often linked with "thin and weak"...



I’m not quite certain what your reference is but I can speak for myself.

I run a pair of focal solo6 be monitors driven off a chord Hugo TT. Being focal’s best active 2 way monitor, I’d say properly set up, it gives an extremely accurate tonal balance.

Sure, the e8 is a tad leaner than what my focals do, and sure, they don’t have the authority and slam of the focals, not even close. But they nevertheless remain the closest sounding to my reference sound among all the TWS IEMS I’ve heard. Yes they’re a tad lean but they are the least coloured.

Unless of course you have a better suggestion regarding a more balanced sounding TWS IEM, I am all ears.


----------



## chinmie

SomeGuyDude said:


> I do often wonder why "balanced" seems so often linked with "thin and weak"...



because to someone who frequently (or has just) listens to bassy headphones/earphones, balanced would sound thin because the sudden absence/lack of bass volume. reverse the situation, someone who is accustomed to balanced or treble focused sound would find bassy earphones too much.

i like both, and i try not to swap preference too extreme after i have listened to a type of sound. most of my gears are more of a balanced or even bright type of sound though


----------



## webvan

clerkpalmer said:


> What iems is everyone pairing with these? Does the cable version do AAC?



I'll be pairing my cable with the fabulous TRN V80, these have to be the best value IEMs on the market today, don't take my word for it : https://www.soundphilereview.com/reviews/trn-v80-review-2569/  The cable version does aptX so hopefully AAC too.


----------



## clerkpalmer

webvan said:


> I'll be pairing my cable with the fabulous TRN V80, these have to be the best value IEMs on the market today, don't take my word for it : https://www.soundphilereview.com/reviews/trn-v80-review-2569/  The cable version does aptX so hopefully AAC too.



I see these are on mass drop now for 28.99. Hmmm.  So what’s the verdict on the bt cable? The cable version or the tw version? Both are ridiculously cheap.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

chinmie said:


> because to someone who frequently (or has just) listens to bassy headphones/earphones, balanced would sound thin because the sudden absence/lack of bass volume. reverse the situation, someone who is accustomed to balanced or treble focused sound would find bassy earphones too much.
> 
> i like both, and i try not to swap preference too extreme after i have listened to a type of sound. most of my gears are more of a balanced or even bright type of sound though



LMAO I like the implication. Yep. Just me and nothing but Beats over here.


----------



## Ocelitgol

chinmie said:


> https://s.click.aliexpress.com/e/uWs0quu
> 
> it's finally here, alas it has no aptx and has a rather clunky charging method...


I've been waiting for something like this for so long.....
Do they have any other alternative? 
Has anyone tried this?


----------



## clerkpalmer

webvan said:


> I'll be pairing my cable with the fabulous TRN V80, these have to be the best value IEMs on the market today, don't take my word for it : https://www.soundphilereview.com/reviews/trn-v80-review-2569/  The cable version does aptX so hopefully AAC too.


One more question. Grabbed the trnv80 on mass drop. So which cable? Regular or the new tw? Any recommendations? Also is is mmcx for the trnv80?  Thanks.


----------



## chinmie

stormers said:


> I've been waiting for something like this for so long.....
> Do they have any other alternative?
> Has anyone tried this?



I'm hesitant to try because of the way to charge is cumbersome, and i don't think it supports aptx. I'll stick to my older bluetooth cables for now and wait for the next improvement on that product


----------



## SomeGuyDude

I'd be hesitant with any AliExpress product like that. Even if it had aptX I'm hardly confident it wouldn't sound like ass.


----------



## clerkpalmer

clerkpalmer said:


> One more question. Grabbed the trnv80 on mass drop. So which cable? Regular or the new tw? Any recommendations? Also is is mmcx for the trnv80?  Thanks.


The regular cable uses a csr8645 Qualcomm chipset and supports AAC.


----------



## chinmie

SomeGuyDude said:


> I'd be hesitant with any AliExpress product like that. Even if it had aptX I'm hardly confident it wouldn't sound like ass.



you'll never know, some ass just might know how to sing 
but you're right, the jury's still out on this.. i will wait for some more reviews on it


----------



## SomeGuyDude

chinmie said:


> you'll never know, some ass just might know how to sing
> but you're right, the jury's still out on this.. i will wait for some more reviews on it



It's like I said before, aptX is nice but it's not gonna be the primary factor when it comes to SQ on these devices. A $10 DAP could let you listen to FLAC but it'd still sound like absolute trash. The codecs mean very little when the dac/amp are bargain-basement parts they buy in bulk for pennies.


----------



## webvan

clerkpalmer said:


> One more question. Grabbed the trnv80 on mass drop. So which cable? Regular or the new tw? Any recommendations? Also is is mmcx for the trnv80?  Thanks.


I've been using the cable they came with and it's fine. I also used the KZ BT cable and it sounds pretty good (can't tell the difference honestly) but the pins come ou so I had to be creative with some small rubber bands. The problem with that cable too is that it's not balanced (battery on one side and controls on the other) so it "pulls" when you move. The TRN cable should be improvement thanks to it's "neck rest" design. The TRN V80 is two pin, not MMCX.

Not sure about that new "back of the ear" contraption, charging is indeed cumbersome and I'm concerned it might not be that comfortable. Now it would turn all two pin IEMs into TWS earbuds so hopefully someone here will pick one up and report back


----------



## clerkpalmer

webvan said:


> I've been using the cable they came with and it's fine. I also used the KZ BT cable and it sounds pretty good (can't tell the difference honestly) but the pins come ou so I had to be creative with some small rubber bands. The problem with that cable too is that it's not balanced (battery on one side and controls on the other) so it "pulls" when you move. The TRN cable should be improvement thanks to it's "neck rest" design. The TRN V80 is two pin, not MMCX.
> 
> Not sure about that new "back of the ear" contraption, charging is indeed cumbersome and I'm concerned it might not be that comfortable. Now it would turn all two pin IEMs into TWS earbuds so hopefully someone here will pick one up and report back


Thanks. It appears the .75mm two pin is sold out unless I’m missing something.


----------



## clerkpalmer

webvan said:


> I've been using the cable they came with and it's fine. I also used the KZ BT cable and it sounds pretty good (can't tell the difference honestly) but the pins come ou so I had to be creative with some small rubber bands. The problem with that cable too is that it's not balanced (battery on one side and controls on the other) so it "pulls" when you move. The TRN cable should be improvement thanks to it's "neck rest" design. The TRN V80 is two pin, not MMCX.
> 
> Not sure about that new "back of the ear" contraption, charging is indeed cumbersome and I'm concerned it might not be that comfortable. Now it would turn all two pin IEMs into TWS earbuds so hopefully someone here will pick one up and report back


I’m gonna be the guinea pig on the true wireless back of the ear version. Found for 25.  I’ve wasted 25 on a lot worse.


----------



## webvan

Nice, where did you find them for 25$ ? What earbuds will you be using them with ?


----------



## nanop.

Hello guys 
i just need an small advice 
i found the jabra 65t active for 110 euro, should i grab one ?? 
what do you think


----------



## bjornw (Nov 11, 2018)

If there’s any Swedes around here, elgiganten has a 30% discount on the E8’s today (singles day).


----------



## SomeGuyDude

Sounds like a really damn good deal to me.


----------



## maxxevv

webvan said:


> Nice, where did you find them for 25$ ? What earbuds will you be using them with ?



There are 2 sellers doing this price range now on Aliexpress. 

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/TRN...lgo_pvid=eed634b7-af7d-4fec-9f9a-6f610e2c8dcd

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/TRN...lgo_pvid=eed634b7-af7d-4fec-9f9a-6f610e2c8dcd


----------



## clerkpalmer

webvan said:


> Nice, where did you find them for 25$ ? What earbuds will you be using them with ?


Search trn bt20 on Ali express. Grabbed the v80 iem per the recommendation above.


----------



## webvan

Ah ok I thought you were referring to the behind the ear adapter. Love my V80s, I did have a hard time finding the right tip though, I settled on some L Anjirui foams. 

Oh and I broke down and ordered some WF1000s. .


----------



## clerkpalmer

webvan said:


> Ah ok I thought you were referring to the behind the ear adapter. Love my V80s, I did have a hard time finding the right tip though, I settled on some L Anjirui foams.
> 
> Oh and I broke down and ordered some WF1000s. .


Yes I was. Ordered the behind the ear adapter to go with v80s. Thanks for the tip on the tips.  I have the spn700 and love them. The 1000s should be similar if not identical


----------



## webvan

A bit worried about disconnections that the spn700 don't seem to have...

Thanks for the Trn Adapter links, pretty tempting at that price...


----------



## god-bluff

webvan said:


> A bit worried about disconnections that the spn700 don't seem to have...
> 
> Thanks for the Trn Adapter links, pretty tempting at that price...



Great choice
My 1000x perform (largely) flawlessly. I think the problems affected the early production runs on the original firmware.

ALSO as someone mentioned earlier it would be nice to find a wired earphone that has the same signature. None of the Sony earphones (admittedly not high end) hold a candle to these.

They outright sound excellent by any standards. So smooth warm yet detailed. Totally unfatiguing and satisfying. 

The sepeperation and imaging is THE stand out characteristic, among the best I've heard. Hard to believe they can seriously be beaten by any other totally wireless. At least in terms of pure sound

Look out for amazon warehouse deals. I got mine 'used like new" actually brand new and sealed for just under £90! One of the biggest bargains and the best audio related  purchase I've made.


----------



## Blueshound24 (Nov 11, 2018)

Has anyone had any experience or recomendations for a good BT cable for a 0.78 2 pin (non-bluetooth) IEM? 
I had considered something like the Earstudio ES100, but I thought a more compact BT cable/adaptor might be better than having to deal with being stuck with, and having to deal with the long cable that comes with the IEM.


----------



## nanop. (Nov 11, 2018)

any idea about the sound difference between the jabra elite 65t et the active one ?


----------



## clerkpalmer

nanop. said:


> any idea about the sound difference between the jabra elite 65t et the active one ?


No difference. They are exactly the same.


----------



## nanop.

clerkpalmer said:


> No difference. They are exactly the same.


Thanks well in my research for the adequate earbuds 
I came across the jabra elite 65t active the 1000x for a very good price 
And due to my s... experience i don't know what should i do
i have to say i would feel a little bit dumb if i took the 1000x and like in one month there will be a new ones 
it s the same with the IconX 2018 which seems very good


----------



## nc8000

nanop. said:


> Thanks well in my research for the adequate earbuds
> I came across the jabra elite 65t active the 1000x for a very good price
> And due to my s... experience i don't know what should i do
> i have to say i would feel a little bit dumb if i took the 1000x and like in one month there will be a new ones
> it s the same with the IconX 2018 which seems very good



There will always be a new after you have bought no matter how long you wait


----------



## nanop.

nc8000 said:


> There will always be a new after you have bought no matter how long you wait


yes sure thing 
but i would like to get the best for the price as anyone i guess 
and i have to say 
I am still a student so +100 euro for earbuds u think about it twice   but we live only once so meh haha


----------



## chrisbriton

Just cancelled a preorder for Jaybird’s new tarah pro’s as I want to dip my toe into a true wireless pair (also discovered the tarah “pro” have Sbc Codec only)
Will be using them for workouts, leaning towards the jabra elite active 65t. Any other suggestions worth looking at?
I’m currently using Jaybird X3, Will I notice a drop in sq and volume With a truly wireless earbuds like the 65t?
Thanks


----------



## clerkpalmer

chrisbriton said:


> I’m currently using Jaybird X3, Will I notice a drop in sq and volume With a truly wireless earbuds like the 65t
> Thanks



The 65t won’t sound as good as the x3. It’s not a huge drop but the x3 has some pretty good sound. I don’t think you’ll be disappointed but if you want something with a little more dynamic sound, look at the bose or Sony sp700n. Each have their pros and cons compared to the Jabra.


----------



## chrisbriton

clerkpalmer said:


> The 65t won’t sound as good as the x3. It’s not a huge drop but the x3 has some pretty good sound. I don’t think you’ll be disappointed but if you want something with a little more dynamic sound, look at the bose or Sony sp700n. Each have their pros and cons compared to the Jabra.


Thanks for the comment,
I’ve never had much luck getting a good seal with the x3’s , only getting a decent bass response when holding them in my ears.  If the 65t’s fit me better I’m hoping I won’t miss the x3’s too much. How are the volume levels on the 65t’s? I’ve read a few comments saying users could do with a bit more volume at times


----------



## korefuji (Nov 11, 2018)

hey all, so I've been following and reading this thread from start to finish. Seems everyone keeps going back to the Jabra Active 65t. I preordered the ATH TWs non sport, but then cancelled, even though they're in stock here. I then have preordered the Sennheiser True Wireless Momentum. I did have the Nuheara's but they weren't that good tbh.

I don't know if anyone is in the market for a cheaper pair, but I did notice this on indiegog right now: https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/samurai-ears-japan-s-best-quality-wireless-earbuds/x/1744243#/

Maybe it's something of interest to others, I will go by well known brands only, mainly because you tend to get what you pay for, in terms of build quality and quality. The Samurai buds look promising but stick out way too much for my liking.

Anyway, just wanted to contribute to the thread, as I like this unique thread, there's very few places you can come to discuss about wireless IEMs cuz they're so new, but again, they're starting to get saturated I think with Chinese builds, glad to see some other brands coming to light.

I should get the Senn's this week coming, out Thursday I believe, so I may get them friday. I'm NOT an audiophile, but I exclusively listen to music, so if anyone has any questions about the buds when I get them, I will try to answer them if you want.

Also two more on indiegogo that caught my eyes are:

https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/uni-world-s-most-advanced-true-wireless-earbuds/pstc

https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/pamu-scroll-bt-5-0-earphones-with-wireless-charge/pstc

Not sure of either of those tbh. But spec wise they're up there. Samurai buds use the new Qualcomm chip


----------



## Hoplite

^ The Samurai Ears look very intriguing. The claimed battery life (10 hours on single charge!) is crazy :O.
Very curious about this one


----------



## korefuji

I think their claim is based on the True Wireless Plus notion, that it will have 2 master/slave bud options, instead of one master one slave option with regular buds. Whether that's factored into current tech in terms of usage I don't know.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

Those Samurai ears do look fascinating. The fact that they come with SpinFits and mention aptX tells me they actually do care about the sonic qualities.


----------



## albau

korefuji said:


> I should get the Senn's this week coming, out Thursday I believe, so I may get them friday. I'm NOT an audiophile, but I exclusively listen to music, so if anyone has any questions about the buds when I get them, I will try to answer them if you want.


Thank you a lot for interesting links to Japanese designed tws. Though in general I’m quite fond of my Jabra 65t Elite I’m also very interested in Senns. I had a few of their high end wired cans but never an IEM. Your impressions will be highly appreciated. Thanks.


----------



## korefuji (Nov 11, 2018)

Glad you found it of interest, I did try the jabra elite 65t I had two issues which are subjective I felt the sound was flat and I always had readjust the ear buds when walking or I felt they would drop out. Everything else I would give good marks for. But fit and sound are two main cores for me when it comes to earbuds and it failed those. I don’t blame jabra as I said sound is and can be subjective, fit is mainly due to ny weird ear canals I guess.  I hope the senns are a good fit

I’ve just received frustrating news that the senns are now delayed till December. That’s really disappointing I may have to go with the ath in this case


----------



## willryan042

I'm looking forward to seeing a showdown between the new Sennheiser's and Audio Technica's. I'm between those two, the MW07, and the 65t (in that order).


----------



## ThomasHK

Just received my EOZ Airs today. I will be providing a quick review in this thread after a few days. Only things I can say so far:


tip rolling makes a huge difference for me. Could not get the best fit with the supplied silicon tips (not a fan of comply)
fit in general and stability in ear is phenomenal though. Such a great concept the behind the ear style for TWS. Makes a lot of sense to me. 
Sound quality got a lot better as I found better tips, but too early to really comment.


----------



## korefuji

I almost pulled the trigger on the ATH and the MW07. The latter mainly because of design, but I heard the sound is super bass-like, though the fit is mean to be incredible. The former, because it's bt5, among other things, better battery life, and a good "fit" for most. Just no touch controls for assistant, nor any IPX rating.


----------



## karloil

korefuji said:


> or I felt they would drop out. ....... fit is mainly due to ny weird ear canals I guess.



have you tried changing tips? I too was skeptical at 1st. but then I tried running with them - they stay put.


----------



## korefuji

karloil said:


> have you tried changing tips? I too was skeptical at 1st. but then I tried running with them - they stay put.


Yes I tried comply truly wireless tips, and though they sort of fit, it still felt flaky


----------



## clerkpalmer

So, RHA has been "sold out" for nearly a month.  November 12th was the "new" release date on Amazon.  I checked this morning and it showed in stock with an expected delivery date of 11/24 to 12/12 - 2 to 4 weeks for shipping!  Prime delivery was not an option.  Why - RHA - would it take 2 to 4 weeks to mail me these?  And surprise, now at 10:09 am, they are sold out again.  Seems like some poor supply chain management going on here. At this point, I'm not even going to bother.


----------



## korefuji

clerkpalmer said:


> So, RHA has been "sold out" for nearly a month.  November 12th was the "new" release date on Amazon.  I checked this morning and it showed in stock with an expected delivery date of 11/24 to 12/12 - 2 to 4 weeks for shipping!  Prime delivery was not an option.  Why - RHA - would it take 2 to 4 weeks to mail me these?  And surprise, now at 10:09 am, they are sold out again.  Seems like some poor supply chain management going on here. At this point, I'm not even going to bother.



As long as you're aware that for firmware updates you're going to have to "return" them to RHA, as they don't offer OTA updates.


----------



## clerkpalmer

korefuji said:


> As long as you're aware that for firmware updates you're going to have to "return" them to RHA, as they don't offer OTA updates.



Thanks.  I am skipping these for now anyway. I hesitated due to a lack of AAC but some reviews have indicated a very good SQ.  At this point, the AT and Senns will be available before these are so why bother.


----------



## korefuji

if you live in the UK, you can order the ATH which are in stock now at: https://premiumsound.co.uk/product/headphones/wireless/earbuds/audio-technica-ath-ckr7tw/


----------



## highlightshadow

SomeGuyDude said:


> Those Samurai ears do look fascinating. The fact that they come with SpinFits and mention aptX tells me they actually do care about the sonic qualities.



I backed the samurai project then cancelled. Just for burnt out on paying so much on trust.
2 meh fwe projects has thet effect


----------



## n20nine

korefuji said:


> if you live in the UK, you can order the ATH which are in stock now at: https://premiumsound.co.uk/product/headphones/wireless/earbuds/audio-technica-ath-ckr7tw/


Thanks. As it turns out, the shop is quite near my house. I have pre-ordered the Sennheiser Momentum True Wireless and am torn between these two units. 

What do you guys reckon?


----------



## clerkpalmer

n20nine said:


> Thanks. As it turns out, the shop is quite near my house. I have pre-ordered the Sennheiser Momentum True Wireless and am torn between these two units.
> 
> What do you guys reckon?


I'd probably buy them both and keep the one you like best.  The lack of any sweatproofing will probably keep me from buying the AT.  If you don't care about that and there is a return policy, why not grab a pair and tell us all what you think of them?


----------



## clerkpalmer

The sport version of the AT looks more compelling to me.  Available from Japan for a me $80 premium over retail:  https://www.ebay.com/itm/Audio-tech...8102a172:m:mhWQh7Veb8eZ1Av8s8rNxJw:rk:53:pf:0


----------



## korefuji

I don't know if i can wait until mid-december for the Sennheisers, I realise it's a month only, but I was set on it coming out in mid-November. So I'm thinking I might get ATH? The sports version is interesting too, 5.5mm driver, only 3 hours battery life etc. I wish I could have the sports with the non sports tech. That';d be great. But maybe their next version will be more interesting.

I also wish the Senn's and ATH were more sleek and discreet, they look really chunky and stick out quite a bit it seems from the pics.


----------



## n20nine

clerkpalmer said:


> I'd probably buy them both and keep the one you like best.  The lack of any sweatproofing will probably keep me from buying the AT.  If you don't care about that and there is a return policy, why not grab a pair and tell us all what you think of them?



The reason why I initially pre-ordered the Sennheiser’s was because the ATH’s were a bit harder to source this part of the world - which makes me think any support required will be a bit of a pain. To me so far-

The ATH is better by:
- Having a driver that’s ~35% bigger
- Their product page is all about the audio quality 
- initial impressions have mentioned that they are very comfortable and have good audio quality
- lighter and better battery life

Where I think the Sennheiser’s are better:
- Nicer design
- touch controls
- faster charging by 30m but smaller battery capacity
- Probabky better support in Europe with the brand

I would have also bought the ATH but the shop does not have a clear return policy and returns are not even advertised.


----------



## clerkpalmer

korefuji said:


> I don't know if i can wait until mid-december for the Sennheisers, I realise it's a month only, but I was set on it coming out in mid-November. .





korefuji said:


> I don't know if i can wait until mid-december for the Sennheisers, I realise it's a month only, but I was set on it coming out in mid-November. So I'm thinking I might get ATH? The sports version is interesting too, 5.5mm driver, only 3 hours battery life etc. I wish I could have the sports with the non sports tech. That';d be great. But maybe their next version will be more interesting.
> 
> I also wish the Senn's and ATH were more sleek and discreet, they look really chunky and stick out quite a bit it seems from the pics.


have the Senns been delayed? The ath look particularly ridiculous.


----------



## clerkpalmer

n20nine said:


> The reason why I initially pre-ordered the Sennheiser’s was because the ATH’s were a bit harder to source this part of the world - which makes me think any support required will be a bit of a pain. To me so far-
> 
> The ATH is better by:
> - Having a driver that’s ~35% bigger
> ...



Also the mw07 are pretty damn nice and have ipx4.


----------



## korefuji

clerkpalmer said:


> have the Senns been delayed? The ath look particularly ridiculous.



According to Amazon release date is Dec 14 now, it may just be for amazon, but I've contacted Senn to confirm. I agree about the look of the ATH, but then I'm buying them for listening pleasure rather than showing off, if you get my meaning.

Problem I found with mw07's are that they are only BT 4.2, no AAC support, 3.5 hour battery life. That makes it difficult to choose those, otherwise I would have bought them in an instant, no question.


----------



## clerkpalmer

korefuji said:


> According to Amazon release date is Dec 14 now, it may just be for amazon, but I've contacted Senn to confirm. I agree about the look of the ATH, but then I'm buying them for listening pleasure rather than showing off, if you get my meaning.
> 
> Problem I found with mw07's are that they are only BT 4.2, no AAC support, 3.5 hour battery life. That makes it difficult to choose those, otherwise I would have bought them in an instant, no question.



Are you sure about no AAC on the MW?  Pretty sure I confi


korefuji said:


> According to Amazon release date is Dec 14 now, it may just be for amazon, but I've contacted Senn to confirm. I agree about the look of the ATH, but then I'm buying them for listening pleasure rather than showing off, if you get my meaning.
> 
> Problem I found with mw07's are that they are only BT 4.2, no AAC support, 3.5 hour battery life. That makes it difficult to choose those, otherwise I would have bought them in an instant, no question.



I don't think that's correct about the MW07.  This is a quote from the apple insider review:  "They also support AptX (though the iPhone still doesn't) and AAC for playback."

According to Sennheiser, they are rolling out this week and they said a huge number are going to amazon but it sounds like those are backordered too.


----------



## korefuji (Nov 12, 2018)

Based on the website for M&D it does not state AAC:

https://www.masterdynamic.co.uk/products/mw07-true-wireless-earphones

If you scroll down to details, it states BT Profile: BT4.2 - aptx

Thanks for the clarification on the Senn's. I might just hold on for now and see what turns up this week.


----------



## clerkpalmer

korefuji said:


> Based on the website for M&D it does not state AAC:
> 
> https://www.masterdynamic.co.uk/products/mw07-true-wireless-earphones
> 
> If you scroll down to details, it states BT Profile: BT4.2 - aptx



I'm not sure.  I do believe that the chipset that supports Aptx almost always includes AAC as well.  I have found that you have to dig a little more on AAC.  For instance, the Grado GW100 advertised Aptx but no AAC but when I contacted them directly, they confirmed AAC.  My best guess is that they do cover AAC as well but I understand why you would want confirmation.  FWIW, they sounded pretty damn good.  In fact, if the Senns are delayed a month, I'm going to take another run at them.  They tick all of the boxes other than battery life.


----------



## korefuji

Good luck, I might consider them, if there's a delay in the Sennheiser Momentum. I would prefer the MW07 over the ATH tbh. But then at the price range the Senn's are equivalent to the M&D. So it's a tough call. I just worry the Senn's won't fit my weird ears to be honest. Like, it doesnt' look as though they would stay in, whereas the MW07 would. So conflicted about these buds.


----------



## clerkpalmer

From M&D support:


*Jared* (Master & Dynamic)

Nov 12, 3:42 PM EST

Hello,

Yes, the MW07 supports the AAC codec.

Best,
Jared

Master & Dynamic
Follow us: Twitter | Instagram


----------



## alee

clerkpalmer said:


> According to Sennheiser, they are rolling out this week and they said a huge number are going to amazon but it sounds like those are backordered too.


I just logged in to track my day 1 pre-order for the Sennheiser, and it says "This order will be shipped after the release date of 11/30/2018 for MOMENTUM True Wireless.".

Let's see what comes... the original announcement said mid-November.


----------



## clerkpalmer

alee said:


> I just logged in to track my day 1 pre-order for the Sennheiser, and it says "This order will be shipped after the release date of 11/30/2018 for MOMENTUM True Wireless.".
> 
> Let's see what comes... the original announcement said mid-November.



That does not bode well for "mid-November".  Their website still says mid-November but their customer support was less than confident about anything.


----------



## n20nine

clerkpalmer said:


> That does not bode well for "mid-November".  Their website still says mid-November but their customer support was less than confident about anything.



I contacted them on Facebook and they said to keep an eye out on their website. Nothing more than that when pressed further. If delayed, I’ll cancel and buy the ATH since it’s readily available.


----------



## korefuji

I discovered a piece of text in the description for momentum’s that didn’t look like it was meant to be there

Special Features: The existing text depicts IPX4 sweat and splash resistant. The product is only splash resistant, not sweat resistant.

Also this info is not to feature in the product title as the product can be perceived as suitable for sport but it is not.

Wow I’m shocked


----------



## clerkpalmer

korefuji said:


> I discovered a piece of text in the description for momentum’s that didn’t look like it was meant to be there
> 
> Special Features: The existing text depicts IPX4 sweat and splash resistant. The product is only splash resistant, not sweat resistant.
> 
> ...



Sounds like they are positing to not warrant water damage.  I assume to be IPX4 you need to get some sort of certification.  I wouldn't use these (or the MW07) for heavy sweat in any event.  I think they'd be fine for light activity.  Weight lifting, walking.  But once you hit cardio, put the sport headphones on.


----------



## korefuji

I agree but the original text made it sound like it was sweat resistant but since it’s not I may consider the ath or mw07 I won’t be using them at the gym on account of medical advice not to exercise but yeah that knocks the senns down a peg. So I might go with ath or mw07. Just gotta pick one


----------



## clerkpalmer

korefuji said:


> I agree but the original text made it sound like it was sweat resistant but since it’s not I may consider the ath or mw07 I won’t be using them at the gym on account of medical advice not to exercise but yeah that knocks the senns down a peg. So I might go with ath or mw07. Just gotta pick one


My MW07 went back because of some hiss.  I decided to take a refund because I thought the Senns were imminent.  I don't think you will be disappointed with them.  I got some on ebay today for $240 BNIB.  It's always hard to decide when the next best thing is right around the corner but I'm not convinced the Senns/AT will be any better.  Master and Dynamic makes some pretty good quality stuff. Good luck.


----------



## kiwikozo

Fingers crossed Sennheiser stay true to the mid-November release date. I'm in the UK too.

It's tempting to order the Audio Technica and return the ones I like the least. But I highly doubt I'd like the Audio Technica more than the Sennheisers. 

Returning things is such a headache. Premium sounds UK only has a 7 working day return policy which seems too short.

Hopefully, reviews of the ATH-CKR7TW will come out soon!


----------



## korefuji (Nov 12, 2018)

clerkpalmer said:


> My MW07 went back because of some hiss.  I decided to take a refund because I thought the Senns were imminent.  I don't think you will be disappointed with them.  I got some on ebay today for $240 BNIB.  It's always hard to decide when the next best thing is right around the corner but I'm not convinced the Senns/AT will be any better.  Master and Dynamic makes some pretty good quality stuff. Good luck.



My only concern with buying it from Ebay is returning it if it's faulty after a while. I agree about not waiting and just buying the right buds there and then, because there will always be a new pair round the corner, and frankly, I don't have much patience when comanies use vague terms like "mid november" then change it on the dispatch page. Ugh.

Thanks for confirming about AAC re: M&D, I can always get a new pair in a  year or so I guess. Would it be better to buy via M&D, or is there another store that I can buy from that isn't amazon. I just have some credit on Paypal and would like to use that in case something happens


----------



## clerkpalmer

korefuji said:


> My only concern with buying it from Ebay is returning it if it's faulty after a while. I agree about not waiting and just buying the right buds there and then, because there will always be a new pair round the corner, and frankly, I don't have much patience when comanies use vague terms like "mid november" then change it on the dispatch page. Ugh.
> 
> Thanks for confirming about AAC re: M&D, I can always get a new pair in a  year or so I guess.



Good point on the warranty.  For the $60 in savings I'm willing to roll the dice.  Paypal will protect me up front if they are defective but after that, no warranty at all.


----------



## chrisbriton

Thanks to all those who have contributed to this thread. Ended up with active 65t’s . Maybe losing a little lunch compared the the jaybird x3’s but the form factor and convenience of these is well worth it for me, very happy and excited to see what’s around the corner with new wireless bud releases. I felt they sounded pretty poor as soon as I put them on (updated first) and seem to have opened up over the last couple of hours listening, is this possible or just me?
Also read a few posts from people claiming these are AAC and some saying otherwise, can anyone confirm that?
Thanks


----------



## clerkpalmer

chrisbriton said:


> Thanks to all those who have contributed to this thread. Ended up with active 65t’s . Maybe losing a little lunch compared the the jaybird x3’s but the form factor and convenience of these is well worth it for me, very happy and excited to see what’s around the corner with new wireless bud releases. I felt they sounded pretty poor as soon as I put them on (updated first) and seem to have opened up over the last couple of hours listening, is this possible or just me?
> Also read a few posts from people claiming these are AAC and some saying otherwise, can anyone confirm that?
> Thanks


Exact same thing happened to me.  Was underwhelmed at first but I've come to like their relatively balanced SQ.  Your ears need to adjust to any new headphones.  I find myself reaching for them more often than my Sonys lately.


----------



## korefuji

Well Amazon have the MW07 (exc Steel Blue colour) for £24-£40 off on discount right now, in the UK. So I may just buy from them after all.

RE: Jabra Active 65t, I think i felt the same, when they did stay in my ears, the sound was a bit flat for me but improved somewhat after using them a little, I had to return them though because they just didn't fit my weird ear canals.


----------



## albau

chrisbriton said:


> Thanks to all those who have contributed to this thread. Ended up with active 65t’s . Maybe losing a little lunch compared the the jaybird x3’s but the form factor and convenience of these is well worth it for me, very happy and excited to see what’s around the corner with new wireless bud releases. I felt they sounded pretty poor as soon as I put them on (updated first) and seem to have opened up over the last couple of hours listening, is this possible or just me?
> Also read a few posts from people claiming these are AAC and some saying otherwise, can anyone confirm that?
> Thanks


I have 65t elite, not active! But sound wise I believe they are the same. In general new drivers need to “burn” to get to their top sound. But I think more important is that you yourself need to adapt to the new sound signature. Also fit and tips play tremendous roles. Coming from very subtle and balanced wired IEMs (Westone W4) and from B&O E8, initially Jabras seemed to me a little too bassy with distant mids and recessed highs. But since I was expecting cheap, flat and muddy sound I was still pleasantly surprised. Highly recommend EQing them to your liking in the Sound+ app, they respond very well to changes. For me and my fav music sort of W curve works best. With stock big tips Jabras fit my ears very secure and with good isolation from the first time. I use them in a gym and never had a situation where they fell off or lost isolation. I’m also vet happy with controls, especially dedicated volume and with easy FF/RW. My Galaxy S8 shows that it uses AAC codec with them.


----------



## Churchill Wu

albau said:


> I have 65t elite, not active! But sound wise I believe they are the same. In general new drivers need to “burn” to get to their top sound. But I think more important is that you yourself need to adapt to the new sound signature. Also fit and tips play tremendous roles. Coming from very subtle and balanced wired IEMs (Westone W4) and from B&O E8, initially Jabras seemed to me a little too bassy with distant mids and recessed highs. But since I was expecting cheap, flat and muddy sound I was still pleasantly surprised. Highly recommend EQing them to your liking in the Sound+ app, they respond very well to changes. For me and my fav music sort of W curve works best. With stock big tips Jabras fit my ears very secure and with good isolation from the first time. I use them in a gym and never had a situation where they fell off or lost isolation. I’m also vet happy with controls, especially dedicated volume and with easy FF/RW. My Galaxy S8 shows that it uses AAC codec with them.


Do you not have the balance issue where the left is slightly louder than the right?


----------



## albau

Churchill Wu said:


> Do you not have the balance issue where the left is slightly louder than the right?


There may be some imbalance but it's so slight that it doesn't bother me at all. I'm not listening to early Beatles remastered stereo .


----------



## n20nine

kiwikozo said:


> Fingers crossed Sennheiser stay true to the mid-November release date. I'm in the UK too.
> 
> It's tempting to order the Audio Technica and return the ones I like the least. But I highly doubt I'd like the Audio Technica more than the Sennheisers.
> 
> ...



The 7 day return period incl the lengthy T&Cs make me think it would be hard to return after you’ve opened the box. Since they’re like 10mins from my house, I’m planning to go in this saturday to see if I can listen to a sample and clarify returns.


----------



## korefuji

I decided to pull the trigger on MW07's, good luck to everyone, I'll still be following this thread for updates and information. I hope by next year, we'll have a true range of quality TWEs


----------



## adrsz

any fully wireless in ear with aptx or ldec?


----------



## clerkpalmer

adrsz said:


> any fully wireless in ear with aptx or ldec?


Many with aptx. None with LDAC. No aptxhd either.


----------



## adrsz

clerkpalmer said:


> Many with aptx. None with LDAC. No aptxhd either.



of course I meant aptxhd 
nevertheless thank you


----------



## SomeGuyDude

clerkpalmer said:


> Also the mw07 are pretty damn nice and have ipx4.



How's the sound on the MW07? Really curious about those things.


----------



## willryan042

I just jumped on the MW07 as well. Anyone know what comply tips fit these?


----------



## clerkpalmer

SomeGuyDude said:


> How's the sound on the MW07? Really curious about those things.


I would describe the sound as rich, full and warm.  They are the first TW that didn't make me think SQ was being sacrificed.  My first pair was a dud.  My second pair had some left side hiss which M&D couldn't tell me was normal or not.  I sent them back requesting an exchange but they were slow to respond so I just went for a return.  The hiss was loud enough to bother me.  The MW07 also offers fins for stability which is a big deal for me.  I am worried that the Senns will slip out as I usually need some sort of stabilizer due to my ear shape.  My guess is the Senns will sound different but not necessarily better than the MW07.


----------



## korefuji

willryan042 said:


> I just jumped on the MW07 as well. Anyone know what comply tips fit these?


None as far as I'm aware, I don't think comply have a specific tip for it.

I just got an email from Sennheiser regarding release, it's a bit vague, just still says "around" Mid-November:

Thank you for your email. Whilst Amazon may have an expected stock due date of December 14th, our website remains unchanged with a due date of around mid November. I am afraid I do not have more information than this at this point in time.


I apologise for any inconvenience this may cause you. If there is anything I can help with, please do let me know.


----------



## clerkpalmer

korefuji said:


> None as far as I'm aware, I don't think comply have a specific tip for it.
> 
> I just got an email from Sennheiser regarding release, it's a bit vague, just still says "around" Mid-November:
> 
> ...


Ha ha.  Well December 14th could be interpreted as "around mid-November".  After calling them yesterday, I got the impression they customer service has no idea when these will arrive.  I also checked with Audio46 and they had no clue either.  I think they are just going to suddenly become available one day without any advance notice.  Could be tomorrow - could be December 14th.  Specifically, they said a shipment was arriving this week but that shipment is earmarked for preorders and Amazon.  They said they do not know when the next shipment will be received.

Btw, I can't find a preorder link on Amazon US.  Can you share?


----------



## jeffri

I ordered the ATH-CKR7TW from Japan. Should arrive in next week or so, I'll post some impression when it's here. It'll be my first true wireless after my last dud (the 1st gen Samsung IconX) so I'm not sure how it'll compare to recent ones. My friend have the Pamu Scroll and Soul Xshock, so that'll probably the other true wireless that I could compare to.


----------



## korefuji

clerkpalmer said:


> Ha ha.  Well December 14th could be interpreted as "around mid-November".  After calling them yesterday, I got the impression they customer service has no idea when these will arrive.  I also checked with Audio46 and they had no clue either.  I think they are just going to suddenly become available one day without any advance notice.  Could be tomorrow - could be December 14th.  Specifically, they said a shipment was arriving this week but that shipment is earmarked for preorders and Amazon.  They said they do not know when the next shipment will be received.
> 
> Btw, I can't find a preorder link on Amazon US.  Can you share?



I meant Amazon UK, sorry, but here's the link anyway: 

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B07HRHM8F3


----------



## clerkpalmer

jeffri said:


> I ordered the ATH-CKR7TW from Japan. Should arrive in next week or so, I'll post some impression when it's here. It'll be my first true wireless after my last dud (the 1st gen Samsung IconX) so I'm not sure how it'll compare to recent ones. My friend have the Pamu Scroll and Soul Xshock, so that'll probably the other true wireless that I could compare to.



Nice.  Did you pay the ebay price of $330 USD or is there a retailer selling these at MSRP?


----------



## jeffri

clerkpalmer said:


> Nice.  Did you pay the ebay price of $330 USD or is there a retailer selling these at MSRP?



I ordered directly with my friend in Japan, so it's MSRP with some added cost for shipping and some beer.  Should ended up cheaper than that $330 price though.


----------



## n20nine

For those looking to buy the ATH in the UK via Premium Sound, turns out it’s only a pre-order and will be fulfilled in approx. 3 weeks time. Bummer.


----------



## korefuji

n20nine said:


> For those looking to buy the ATH in the UK via Premium Sound, turns out it’s only a pre-order and will be fulfilled in approx. 3 weeks time. Bummer.



Wow, and they state it as "in stock", I wonder what their definition of back order is...


----------



## n20nine

korefuji said:


> Wow, and they state it as "in stock", I wonder what their definition of back order is...


Haha tell me about it. I asked about returns and basically from what I gather, you can return within two weeks if you haven’t opened the box. Not quite a return policy. One thing that I just was thinking about - no fast charging capability advertised for both the ATH and the Senn’s.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

I've got 2 more weeks on the return policy with the Soundsport Free, and I'm gonna be honest the MW07 and Senns have my attention. Think they'd work for the gym? I'm not super worried about sweat, it's more the security.


----------



## natalieann

SomeGuyDude said:


> I've got 2 more weeks on the return policy with the Soundsport Free, and I'm gonna be honest the MW07 and Senns have my attention. Think they'd work for the gym? I'm not super worried about sweat, it's more the security.


I use my MW07 in the gym with no problems. I LOVE these. I thought the beoplay e8 were good, but these blow those out of the water on so many levels


----------



## SomeGuyDude

natalieann said:


> I use my MW07 is the gym with no problems. I LOVE these. I thought the beoplay e8 were good, but these blow those out of the water on so many levels



I will admit the battery life concerns me. It didn't bug me really with the Sony because I was literally only using them at the gym, but 3.5hr on something that expensive is worrisome, means they can't really be "general use". But man they look nice...


----------



## clerkpalmer

n20nine said:


> For those looking to buy the ATH in the UK via Premium Sound, turns out it’s only a pre-order and will be fulfilled in approx. 3 weeks time. Bummer.



And for those in the US, Audio46 said it could be end of December before they arrive.


SomeGuyDude said:


> I've got 2 more weeks on the return policy with the Soundsport Free, and I'm gonna be honest the MW07 and Senns have my attention. Think they'd work for the gym? I'm not super worried about sweat, it's more the security.



I can't comment on the Senns obviously but I think the MW07 would be fine for everything other than maybe running.  The finns/stabilizers are pretty decent design with the only drawback being they hurt my ears after awhile but for an hour in the gym I'd say they are fine.  I can comment on the SQ differences between Bose and MW07 and while the MW07 is definitely superior, more accurate and more natural sounding than the Bose, the Bose are no slouch and have a very fun and punchy sound dynamic.  The Bose are also more comfortable if that matters.


----------



## clerkpalmer

SomeGuyDude said:


> I will admit the battery life concerns me. It didn't bug me really with the Sony because I was literally only using them at the gym, but 3.5hr on something that expensive is worrisome, means they can't really be "general use". But man they look nice...


It's too bad that M&W didn't put BT 5.0 in because I agree 3.5 hours blows for something designed for general use.  I think they made a decision to get to market before Senn, ATH and perhaps others and the trade off was BT 4.2.


----------



## korefuji (Nov 13, 2018)

I'll only be using them for commutes, so 3.5 hours and bt 4.2 is no deal breaker for me. I just hope they don't have drop outs.Plus i can charge them in the case, I mean that's what its' there for.

EDIT: @clerkpalmer when do your M&D arrive by the way? From ebay right? Let me know how this pair fairs


----------



## clerkpalmer

korefuji said:


> I'll only be using them for commutes, so 3.5 hours and bt 4.2 is no deal breaker for me. I just hope they don't have drop outs.Plus i can charge them in the case, I mean that's what its' there for.



I didn't have any dropouts - just the occasional "shift" of sound that happens with TW sometimes.  Agreed on the hours.  3.5 will work for me in 95% of the times I need them.  I think you'll be pleased with the upgrade if your primary focus is SQ.  I sometimes find myself waiting for the next best thing only to realize a great option was right there in front of me.


----------



## clerkpalmer

EDIT: @clerkpalmer when do your M&D arrive by the way? From ebay right? Let me know how this pair fairs[/QUOTE]

Will do.  Hopefully tomorrow.  I'm still concerned about the left side hiss.  If the ebay pair has it, then I'd say it's a problem.  Fingers crossed


----------



## nc8000

Have now been using the Havit G1for 5 days, a little over 4 hours each day before the battery runs empty and have not yet recharged the case so at least 20 hours playtime on a fully charged case and buds. Not a single drop out in those 20 hours. Video sync is spot on for YouTube, iTunes videos, videos played from DropBox and local videos on my phone. I must say I’m really impressed with theese at $60 shipped to Denmark. Yes I occasionally miss the ambient mode from the E8 and the E8 do sound better in a silent environment but out and about I really can’t tell much difference. Have not yet tried to make a phone call so don’t know about the mic.


----------



## korefuji

nc8000 said:


> Have now been using the Havit G1for 5 days, a little over 4 hours each day before the battery runs empty and have not yet recharged the case so at least 20 hours playtime on a fully charged case and buds. Not a single drop out in those 20 hours. Video sync is spot on for YouTube, iTunes videos, videos played from DropBox and local videos on my phone. I must say I’m really impressed with theese at $60 shipped to Denmark. Yes I occasionally miss the ambient mode from the E8 and the E8 do sound better in a silent environment but out and about I really can’t tell much difference. Have not yet tried to make a phone call so don’t know about the mic.



How's the build quality on those? And the fit?


----------



## nc8000 (Nov 13, 2018)

korefuji said:


> How's the build quality on those? And the fit?



Fit in my ears is even better than E8 and build seems to be close to the E8. I do prefer the E8 touch control to the G1 buttons


----------



## korefuji

nc8000 said:


> Fit in my ears is even better than E8 and build seems to be close to the E8. I do prefer the E8 touch control to the G1 buttons


Thank you for the feedback. When I last looked at those they didnt' have any reviews on amazon now they do, I guess I might take a closer look at them. I'm surprised you feel they 're so close to the e8's, as the price differential is huge between them. I get my mw07's tomorrow, but maybe I can buy the Havit's as a back up pair


----------



## MNX1024

Aside from the IconX 2018, what are my options with USB-C devices?


----------



## korefuji

afaik mw07, ath ckr7tw and sennheiser true momentum wireless all use usb c?


----------



## MNX1024

Did some digging, both ATH devices are only micro-usb.


----------



## nc8000

korefuji said:


> Thank you for the feedback. When I last looked at those they didnt' have any reviews on amazon now they do, I guess I might take a closer look at them. I'm surprised you feel they 're so close to the e8's, as the price differential is huge between them. I get my mw07's tomorrow, but maybe I can buy the Havit's as a back up pair



Had I bought the G1 last year I probably would not have bought the E8 at all. The G1 are plenty good enough for use with my iPhone when travelling on public transport and walking. Don’t know about the mic yet but the E8 mic is not that good anyway


----------



## korefuji

MNX1024 said:


> Did some digging, both ATH devices are only micro-usb.



That's disappointing to hear, sorry for the misinformation, I was pretty sure they were usb c, maybe i confused them with the mw07 and senn's and made an assumption.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

Why does it matter? Micro-usb cables are dumb cheap. You can get like a box of five for ten bucks.


----------



## dweaver

I am intrigued by the MW01, the Senns, and the AT's. I am waiting impatiently for all the impressions


----------



## MNX1024

korefuji said:


> That's disappointing to hear, sorry for the misinformation, I was pretty sure they were usb c, maybe i confused them with the mw07 and senn's and made an assumption.



No worries at all. Was kind of hoping there was more USB-C headphones available. Guess I'll wait around for the Sennheiser, as that's pretty much my only choice right now.


----------



## webvan (Nov 13, 2018)

god-bluff said:


> Great choice
> My 1000x perform (largely) flawlessly. I think the problems affected the early production runs on the original firmware.
> 
> ALSO as someone mentioned earlier it would be nice to find a wired earphone that has the same signature. None of the Sony earphones (admittedly not high end) hold a candle to these.
> ...



So I've had the Sony WF-1000X for a day now and must say the SQ is indeed pretty stunning, the clarity and imaging is wonderful, pretty similar to my Quad Driver TRN V80s going by memory (no side by side) which says a lot. I've left the EQ flat but have engaged the bass boost (+7 apparently).

Here are some random thoughts :
- I've had a few disconnects but nothing too distracting so far. I have yet to take them in a crowded place.
- They came with v1.007 and I updated them to v2.000.
- As per the reviews the NC is, well...not audible at all ! I ran some "plane noise" demos on YouTube and they cancelled absolutely zilch unlike my $20 TaoTronics EP-01 IEMs or TaoTronics NC Headphones. Not sure what Sony are thinking by promoting this feature ?! The team working on the WH1000XM3 with its absolutely stellar NC must be rolling on the floor laughing 
- They come with a wide array of tips, the standard "thin" silicones and the "thick" silicones that seem to have replaced the old "hybrid" (silicone with foam core) tips ? Fortunately I had some of the latter hanging around and they work better. I've also found that the Comply Tsx-200 (olive shaped) work well, giving an even better seal without dampening the sound as they do on the Jabra Sports Elite.
- They look...well weird, sticking out like this ! I suppose they're ok around the house but outdoors they might attract a few strange looks, hehe, not that I really mind. They might catch some air/wind though ?
- The benefit of their "sticking out" is that you can easily forget about them and are indeed "unfatiguing"
- Just watched a video and hum...pretty big delay, a lot bigger than with the Jabras


----------



## chinmie

webvan said:


> So I've had the Sony WF-1000X for a day now and must say the SQ is indeed pretty stunning, the clarity and imaging is wonderful, pretty similar to my Quad Driver TRN V80s going by memory (no side by side) which says a lot. I've left the EQ flat but have engaged the bass boost (+7 apparently).
> 
> Here are some random thoughts :
> - I've had a few disconnects but nothing too distracting so far. I have yet to take them in a crowded place.
> ...



for pure music listening around the house, i take the WF1000X all day. in fact, does anyone know any wired earphone that has the same signature? I'd love to have it. 

the ANC worked  but it doesn't cancel the lowest rumble, which makes it rather useless, not to mention engaging ANC or ambient sound will make the left and right earpieces randomly disconnects more often. 

i wish it always defaults to "off" when i remove it from the case, so i don't have to toggle it each time


----------



## Churchill Wu

Might have found a fix to the 65t imbalance issue... Testing it some more to see if it is really fixed but so far sounds much more balanced.


----------



## Churchill Wu

If your Jabra Elite 65t (and Active) has audio imbalance, try this:

1. Reload the language pack in the Sound+ app (make sure battery is somewhat full for the update)
2. Put the earbuds into the case to download the update as instructed by the app, and exit the application. 
3. When the purple LED stops flashing, DO NOT take the earbuds out of the case.
4. Wait 5 minutes or so to make sure the download is really complete (from Jabra's responses previously).
5. DO NOT open the Sound+ app again. Instead, completely uninstall the Sound+ app as well as the Jabra Support app.
6. Take out the earbuds from the case, press and hold the button on the right bud for 10-15 seconds to soft reset it.
7. Pair the earbuds to your device again, DO NOT download the Jabra apps again.

Why I think this might work:
Jabra's 2.14 firmware update notes said the audio imbalance is caused by an interruption to the firmware update. Not sure about other people but previously whenever I updated/reloaded firmware 2.14, I would take the earbuds out after the update is complete and open the Sound+ app. I would then get a pop-up error message saying the update could not be downloaded, and then immediately after I would get another pop-up message saying the firmware has been successfully updated. I think the error message indicates there was an interruption to the update even though it was successful in the end, which is why the imbalance is not fixed. Following the steps above, the app is uninstalled and not opened again after the update and so perhaps the interruption/error is not triggered, therefore no imbalance caused.

Please do try this if you are interested (although it does get rid of the app), my buds have sounded a lot more balanced after I have done this but I'm interested in if it improves the balance for anyone else.


----------



## korefuji

Received my MW07's this morning. First impressions are: stunning presentation, design and build quality. Disappointed there's no app, so it means no firmware updates possible.

Sound-wise, I heard no hissing that another user experienced. Bass is a little stronger than I'm used to, but it's not deal breaker. The default fins and tips were a great fit, I don't know if I should change them since they work so well. The sound in other areas is loud and punchy, the tips seem to isolate the music well in my ear canals.

Once i put them in, I have to be honest they were almost invisible in terms of feel. You can just about feel they're in there, I don't know if that's a good or bad thing yet. If one fell out, would I notice I guess is the question?

Build quality is so good, solid, strong, and clean.

Charging case is equally beautiful. Comes with a huge range of tips and 2 sets of fins, and a usb-c cable with a usb-c-to-a adapter. The only negative thing about the case is it's a finger print magnet.

Overall, I'm certainly pleased with them. Tomorrow will be the litmus test, when I go out though, and see if there's any wind interference, drop outs and such.


----------



## clerkpalmer

korefuji said:


> Received my MW07's this morning. First impressions are: stunning presentation, design and build quality. Disappointed there's no app, so it means no firmware updates possible.
> 
> Sound-wise, I heard no hissing that another user experienced. Bass is a little stronger than I'm used to, but it's not deal breaker. The default fins and tips were a great fit, I don't know if I should change them since they work so well. The sound in other areas is loud and punchy, the tips seem to isolate the music well in my ear canals.
> 
> ...



Thanks for the impressions.  Glad to hear you are not hearing any hiss - hopefully mine were just a bad set.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

korefuji said:


> Received my MW07's this morning. First impressions are: stunning presentation, design and build quality. Disappointed there's no app, so it means no firmware updates possible.
> 
> Sound-wise, I heard no hissing that another user experienced. Bass is a little stronger than I'm used to, but it's not deal breaker. The default fins and tips were a great fit, I don't know if I should change them since they work so well. The sound in other areas is loud and punchy, the tips seem to isolate the music well in my ear canals.
> 
> ...



Damn. That sounds right up my alley. Strong bass is a big thing for me (wearing my VModa right now).


----------



## Rickyearl

korefuji said:


> Received my MW07's this morning. First impressions are: stunning presentation, design and build quality. Disappointed there's no app, so it means no firmware updates possible.
> 
> Sound-wise, I heard no hissing that another user experienced. Bass is a little stronger than I'm used to, but it's not deal breaker. The default fins and tips were a great fit, I don't know if I should change them since they work so well. The sound in other areas is loud and punchy, the tips seem to isolate the music well in my ear canals.
> 
> ...



Have you ever listened to the E8 or the Bose?  If so, how do they compare?


----------



## korefuji

Rickyearl said:


> Have you ever listened to the E8 or the Bose?  If so, how do they compare?



Sadly not, so I can't comment on the comparison.


----------



## SilverEars (Nov 14, 2018)

I just got the regular Jabra Elite (not active), and I don't have imbalance issue or hear hiss(edit: Later I heard hiss when I had the player paused a duration).  I'm using Galaxy S8 with AAC connection.

Either I had trouble with right side fit or the sound was noticibly imbalanced and I don't notice so far with the Elite.  Perhaps active has more bulk to the driver housing or imbalance?  The Elite also sounds bright compared to what I recall of Active.

It could also be QC issue.

So far, I like the smoothness of BeatsX treble with linear mids to bass (although has slight Beats type woofer effect, perhaps due to being linear?).


----------



## clerkpalmer

I'll bet these sound amazing:  https://www.v-moda.com/us/en/products/bassfit-wireless

Not TW unfortunately.  I wish Vmoda would try TW.  My Forza Metallo wireless were terrific sounding but I hate neckbuds.  These look interesting. Probably $30 too much to take a flyer on though.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

clerkpalmer said:


> I'll bet these sound amazing:  https://www.v-moda.com/us/en/products/bassfit-wireless
> 
> Not TW unfortunately.  I wish Vmoda would try TW.  My Forza Metallo wireless were terrific sounding but I hate neckbuds.  These look interesting. Probably $30 too much to take a flyer on though.


I'm really bummed they aren't TW because the Crossfades are the best full-size wireless out there (for me).


----------



## korefuji

I wish they wouldn't call them wireless, there's clearly a wire


----------



## clerkpalmer

korefuji said:


> I wish they wouldn't call them wireless, there's clearly a wire


Agreed.  These feel a year late in terms of where the market is heading for sports earphones.  I expected wired BT sports headphones are a dying breed.


----------



## kiwikozo (Nov 14, 2018)

Oh no

https://www.amazon.co.jp/オーディオテクニカ-audio-technica-完全ワイヤレス-Bluetoothイヤホン（グレー）audio-technica-ATH-CKR7TW-GY/dp/B07H94MW1H

If you start translating the early reviews of the Audio Tecnica ATH-CKR7TW on google translate they are complaining about audio lag, and the headphones being very bright and tiresome.

I can't stand treble heavy / especially bright headphones.

Three out of the six reviews are also complaining about fit, saying that they don't fit well.

If those reviews are anything to go by, I'd say the RHA look like a better buy over the ATH. Hopefully, Sennheiser pulls through and will dispatch my momentum true wireless tomorrow!!!


----------



## SomeGuyDude

korefuji said:


> I wish they wouldn't call them wireless, there's clearly a wire



There's no wire to connect them to the source. If there's no wire between them that's "true wireless."

There's a wire between the earpieces with full-size wireless as well, they just have a headband that masks it a bit. Unless you think the full-size bluetooth sets shouldn't be called "wireless" either...


----------



## korefuji

kiwikozo said:


> Oh no
> 
> https://www.amazon.co.jp/オーディオテクニカ-audio-technica-完全ワイヤレス-Bluetoothイヤホン（グレー）audio-technica-ATH-CKR7TW-GY/dp/B07H94MW1H
> 
> ...



Disappointing to read, I would have thought the ATH would come up trumps. Good luck with your Senn's, hopefully they turn out good, early previews seem to suggest as much


----------



## SomeGuyDude

kiwikozo said:


> Oh no
> 
> https://www.amazon.co.jp/オーディオテクニカ-audio-technica-完全ワイヤレス-Bluetoothイヤホン（グレー）audio-technica-ATH-CKR7TW-GY/dp/B07H94MW1H
> 
> ...



Sounds like they've got the sound sig of their DSR series, which were irritatingly bright for me.


----------



## kiwikozo

And as I just updated above, three of the reviews are complaining about the fit, saying it is loose / not secure.


----------



## SilverEars (Nov 14, 2018)

Jabra Elite update:

Damn, I just heard the hiss come up when I had the player paused for a duration.  I didn't hear it initially as I mentioned previously.  It would switch the hiss intensity left and right earpieces back and forth at some point.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

SilverEars said:


> Jabra Elite update:
> 
> Damn, I just heard the hiss come up when I had the player paused for a duration.  I didn't hear it initially as I mentioned previously.  It would switch the hiss intensity left and right earpieces back and forth at some point.



It was never an extreme hiss for me, and like you said it was only during silences during playback or briefly during a pause. If the song stopped for a few seconds the hiss would go away after a moment. Was such a chronic issue though that I just couldn't keep up with the damn things.


----------



## Hoplite

kiwikozo said:


> Oh no
> 
> https://www.amazon.co.jp/オーディオテクニカ-audio-technica-完全ワイヤレス-Bluetoothイヤホン（グレー）audio-technica-ATH-CKR7TW-GY/dp/B07H94MW1H
> 
> ...


Looks like a perfect TWS is hard to come by at this moment. I myself am waiting for RHA Trueconnect to arrive


----------



## clerkpalmer

Hoplite said:


> Looks like a perfect TWS is hard to come by at this moment. I myself am waiting for RHA Trueconnect to arrive



Reviews are still scarce but several have noted the good SQ even without Aptx or AAC.  I would try them myself if I could actually find them.


----------



## kiwikozo

RHA seem to be available in the UK - their website does not show out of stock. Has anyone received theirs recently? Maybe RHA has fixed the firmware issues.

It's tempting to order those too but I have a feeling it'll be worth holding out for the Sennheiser. I wonder if the Senns will have fast charging like the RHA.


----------



## korefuji

RHA requires, afaik I know the return of the unit to update the firmware, there's no OTA. However they are in stock in the UK, since they're UK based I imagine, and are available at Amazon UK for example. I've read mixed reviews on the RHA, sonically they are meant to be amazing, and a great fit too. A few others have stated their units are defective, with no clear idea of what the defect is. It could be first production problems, and the second batch might be fine.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

Having to mail the unit in for a firmware update is an even harder "no" for me than a lack of aptX/AAC. Missing a codec might be an oversight or placing priorities elsewhere and hey SBC can sound damn fine for most lossy files, but needing to physically mail the pieces in is just asinine.


----------



## chinmie

this is odd... I've been using my 65T exclusively on my tablet, because it doesn't exhibit imbalance like when i use it on my Note8 phone..but yesterday i randomly picked it up to use with my note8, and surprisingly... it didn't have imbalance issue anymore..that's odd. so i use it until now and crosschecked it with my other headphones and iems (just to make sure it's not just my brain that shifted perception to fix the imbalance), and I'm happy to say (and really deeply puzzled, because i don't know how it happen) that it doesn't have imbalance anymore..

Edit: if i max out the volume on the earpiece (until there's a clicking prompt sound), then the sound would have imbalance again. but if i maxed the volume on my phone, then increase the volume on the earpiece gradually while also reducing the volume on the phone to about 70%(so i have a slight headroom to increase volume on my phone later) the imbalance problem went away


----------



## jeffri

Here is two reviews (in Japanese) that I could find for the CKR7TW:

https://www.gizmodo.jp/2018/11/audio-technica-ath-ckr7tw.html
https://www.ear-phone-review.com/entry/2018/11/13/【完全ワイヤレスイヤホン_audio-technica_ATH-CKR7TW_レビュー】見通

The second review is less positive I think and noted the 0.3 seconds delay.

I'll see how it goes when I got mine.


----------



## chinmie

jeffri said:


> Here is two reviews (in Japanese) that I could find for the CKR7TW:
> 
> https://www.gizmodo.jp/2018/11/audio-technica-ath-ckr7tw.html
> https://www.ear-phone-review.com/entry/2018/11/13/【完全ワイヤレスイヤホン_audio-technica_ATH-CKR7TW_レビュー】見通
> ...



do let me know if you received it, really curious about the sound compared to the Earin and the Sony.
 on the side note, my pamu scroll has been sent my way, i hope it get here soon


----------



## webreaper

Hi all. Back onto this thread (which I started) after a long time away. I bailed this thread at the start of this year, because it seemed true wireless earbuds weren't mature enough yet, and so I went for a plussound BT cable to ditch the wires.

Sadly, I discovered this week that it seems I've lost my headphones somewhere on my commute. My beloved custom-sleeved IE80s and plussound are nowhere to be found. 

Unless they turn up in the next few days, this means I'm going to have to replace them - which makes me very sad, because they were fantastic-sounding, comfy, and convenient. And also because it means I have to go through the rigmarole of choosing a new set of IEMs. <sigh>

So, having had an initial look, it seems like the current best wireless options are likely to be:

Jabra Elite 65T (or one of the sports variants) - which everyone seems to rate massively and appear to be the best choice right now.
Sennheiser Momentum true wireless, which I gather aren't going to be available for another few weeks (and look quite pricey)
The ATH and MWs sound interesting (I've flicked back through the thread but there's literally hundreds of posts to read....). 

What else should go on my shortlist? Is there any such thing as a custom-moulded true wireless IEM yet (or has anyone come up with custom-moulded sleeves for any of the better brands yet)? I can get some Comply foams, but after a few years with custom-moulded sleeves, it's going to be hard to have anything else.


----------



## nc8000

webreaper said:


> Hi all. Back onto this thread (which I started) after a long time away. I bailed this thread at the start of this year, because it seemed true wireless earbuds weren't mature enough yet, and so I went for a plussound BT cable to ditch the wires.
> 
> Sadly, I discovered this week that it seems I've lost my headphones somewhere on my commute. My beloved custom-sleeved IE80s and plussound are nowhere to be found.
> 
> ...



Custom sleeves (if somebody makes them) would be a pain since you would have to remove them everytime as they will not fit in the charging cases for the iem’s


----------



## webreaper

nc8000 said:


> Custom sleeves (if somebody makes them) would be a pain since you would have to remove them everytime as they will not fit in the charging cases for the iem’s


That's an extremely good point, and very well-made.


----------



## SilverEars (Nov 15, 2018)

SomeGuyDude said:


> It was never an extreme hiss for me, and like you said it was only during silences during playback or briefly during a pause. If the song stopped for a few seconds the hiss would go away after a moment. Was such a chronic issue though that I just couldn't keep up with the damn things.


I don't know what relative level would be considered extreme, but it was a lot like when you plug an iem to a high gain tube amp.

Something I notice is when you pause and play, the left would get louder than right (I don't like this as it might be excessive that I hope doesn't damage my hearing ) at the start of the resume play. After that, it seems to balance out. Is the left master?

Something is going on when it's paused.  This is why true wireless is not straightforward as simple wired.  I like that wired is simple as send analog to the transducer, and that's it.  True wireless creates theses problems that wired cannot face.

It's good enough now, but there's some to go if to be reliable as wired.  I want stability and high bitrate codec, stable connection with high bitrate.  I realized high bitrate breaks up with BT under certain conditions, and can see why they don't implement it on TW as there's already left and right earpiece stability issues.

As far as noise cancelling.  I was surprised how better active noise cancelling rids of airplane engine noise better than my custom iems.  I hope we can get ANC performance on par with 1000XM3 with a Sony TW in the future.  That and stable LDAC connection, I would be prettry thrilled.  For flights,  with option of wired connection with the ANC TW iems. 

If we can top quality sound with top performing ANC TW iem (with wired possible ANC on for flights) with stable high bit rate connection, it would truely become my all around, epitome iem.  It would be the one that does everything.


----------



## webreaper

webreaper said:


> So, having had an initial look, it seems like the current best wireless options are likely to be:
> 
> Jabra Elite 65T (or one of the sports variants) - which everyone seems to rate massively and appear to be the best choice right now.
> Sennheiser Momentum true wireless, which I gather aren't going to be available for another few weeks (and look quite pricey)


So annoying that the Senns are delayed. If they'd been released today I'd have just ordered them straight off the bat. Now I just have to decide whether I can live with the crappy Samsung headphones I have for a month until they're released.


----------



## plisandro (Nov 15, 2018)

WCDchee said:


> I was so close to getting the E8. But my urges have been calmed with the havit haha.



I'm really tempted to snatch a pair of Havit G1Ws. All reviews i found so far seem to agree on this model being a really good value for the money, and it ticks a lot of boxes for me including Qi-charging - which i'm surprised is a feature no other manufacturers seem to even consider.

Could anyone confirm these are actually BT 5.0? I have read people complaining that the G1 is actually 4.2, which would be disheartening.


----------



## nc8000

plisandro said:


> I'm really tempted to snatch a pair of Havit G1Ws. All reviews i found so far seem to agree on this model being a really good value for the money, and it ticks a lot of boxes for me including Qi-charging - which i'm surprised is a feature no other manufacturers seem to even consider.
> 
> Could anyone confirm these are actually BT 5.0? I have read people complaining that the G1 is actually 4.2, which would be disheartening.



It’s BT5 as specified on the web site and manual though I have no way of actually verifying it as my iPhone don’t show how it is connected


----------



## SilverEars (Nov 15, 2018)

Here's another Jabra 65T update:  audio stutters when turning my head 40 degrees with my phone in my pocket.

Also, you guys know that when your body obstructs, the signal weakens?  That breaks up the signal.  You body may block the signal.  Think about where your phone is at relative to how the radio waves maybe blocked from the earpiece.


----------



## sly_in_the_sky

Incredible to ear all those issue with the Jabra... I have one standard 65T Elite and a 65T Active and no problem, no/rare cuts, no drops, no balance issue and NO Hiss... I really like them even if I really look forward to receive the Senn TW....


----------



## kiwikozo

Who said the sennheiser have been delayed? 

Is this just an assumption since people are looking at the pre order dates on other websites such as amazon and not sennheiser's own website? 

Sennheiser's own website still states mid November.


----------



## sly_in_the_sky

I can confirm that it's delayed because the shop in Switzerland were I bought it first said mid-november and yesterday I received a message saying it would be available in first of december.


----------



## Hoplite

jeffri said:


> Here is two reviews (in Japanese) that I could find for the CKR7TW:
> 
> https://www.gizmodo.jp/2018/11/audio-technica-ath-ckr7tw.html
> https://www.ear-phone-review.com/entry/2018/11/13/【完全ワイヤレスイヤホン_audio-technica_ATH-CKR7TW_レビュー】見通
> ...


The second link review on RHA Trueconnect seems to be positive one. I am being hopeful


----------



## BobJS (Nov 15, 2018)

sly_in_the_sky said:


> Incredible to ear all those issue with the Jabra... I have one standard 65T Elite and a 65T Active and no problem, no/rare cuts, no drops, no balance issue and NO Hiss... I really like them even if I really look forward to receive the Senn TW....



I too have a Jabra Active Elite 65t and was quite surprised to find how very satisfied I am with them.  Perhaps it is because I bought them before I found this thread based on a couple of good reviews and my expectations weren't that high.  I wear them when I walk, which is a mile, 3x a day.  Two of those are through a (somewhat) noisy manufacturing floor.

At my desk in the office, I listen to an SE846 through an IFI BL which is my favorite non-full-headphone combo to listen to.  I'm not saying the sound quality is the same, but sometimes when I get back to my desk I forget to change gear.

Regarding body blocking signal,  I keep my phone in my jeans front/side pocket.  Never any issues.


----------



## sly_in_the_sky (Nov 15, 2018)

I also am comming from Hi-end stuff like Earsonics Grace, EM10 for (semi)-nomad set up and Sennheiser HD 800s strictly for home use. When home or in specific context, no doubt about it, it's the best way to feel and live pure music....

But for their functionnality when outside or wile doing sports, I would not change my Jabra 65T VS any of my other stuff in my list... Now I am almost sure, for pure nomad on the go, TW is the next gen. gear. After having spent more than 10 years in the IEM hobby, I am now ready to sacrifice 10-20% of sound quality when outside because

1. Outside, I am not strictly focusing on sound quality and details

2. Messing with wire, having micro sounds hiding details when outside  is in the balance something more annoying than sacrifying 10 % of sound quality.

I love my Jabra and look forwards about my Senn....


----------



## nc8000

SilverEars said:


> Here's another Jabra 65T update:  audio stutters when turning my head 40 degrees with my phone in my pocket.
> 
> Also, you guys know that when your body obstructs, the signal weakens?  That breaks up the signal.  You body may block the signal.  Think about where your phone is at relative to how the radio waves maybe blocked from the earpiece.



With the Havit G1 i get good connection and no drop outs even with my phone in one room and me 2 rooms and 3 brick walls and 7 meters away from the phone. The E8 has lost the signal befor that


----------



## webvan (Nov 15, 2018)

Have you had a chance to try calls with the Havits ? That's where cheaper devices falter in my experience.

@sly_in_the_sky Yes the 65Ts seem to be the best SQ/NC/comfort/looks/battery life compromise at this point. One thing about IEMs with good passive isolation though is that they produce a "thump" when you're walking, likely the air trapped in the ear canal being compressed, and that's not good for the SQ, almost worse than the "micro sounds" produced by the cables IMHO.


----------



## webreaper

nc8000 said:


> With the Havit G1 i get good connection and no drop outs even with my phone in one room and me 2 rooms and 3 brick walls and 7 meters away from the phone. The E8 has lost the signal befor that


The point here is the frequency at which BT operates. Walls and doors have almost no effect on it, but water will massively impede bluetooth signals. Human bodies are made up of about 70% water.


----------



## sly_in_the_sky (Nov 15, 2018)

webvan said:


> Have you had a chance to try calls with the Havits ? That's where cheaper devices falter in my experience.
> 
> @sly_in_the_sky Yes the 65Ts seem to be the best SQ/NC/comfort/looks/battery life compromise at this point. One thing about IEMs with good passive isolation though is that they produce a "thump" when you're walking, likely the air trapped in the ear canal being compressed, and that's not good for the SQ, almost worse than the "micro sounds" produced by the cables IMHO.



Yes It's also true but even so, to me the wires annoy me more than this "thump" that you also have with standard wired Iem's. So with standards cabled Iem you have those "thumps" + micro cable noise.

What I also like with TW is that from the moment you decide to listen to music outside to the moment that you have your music ready to play, you only need 15 seconds to open your charging case, put on your Iem's in the ears, take your phone and launch a music.... try this with a player and wired Iems....  More the time you gain, more the music you can listen to...


----------



## webvan (Nov 15, 2018)

Yes that's true, particularly when you can use silicone tips that don't require any "molding" to your ear, as is the case with the 65Ts.




jeffri said:


> Here is two reviews (in Japanese) that I could find for the CKR7TW:
> 
> https://www.gizmodo.jp/2018/11/audio-technica-ath-ckr7tw.html
> https://www.ear-phone-review.com/entry/2018/11/13/【完全ワイヤレスイヤホン_audio-technica_ATH-CKR7TW_レビュー】見通
> ...



Wow that second site has TONS of reviews including of all the cheap "clones" that can be found on Amazon https://tinyurl.com/yapr3syt. I'm not sure what they show in their "pie" graphs though as Google Translate doesn't translate them. They seem to be impressed by the SQ of the Lesoom S1 but complain about usability. They don't seem to like the WF-1000x though and go to the lengths of transcribing a conversation with a sales guy about them https://tinyurl.com/yaqjwa9h ! Amazing stuff


----------



## kiwikozo

sly_in_the_sky said:


> I can confirm that it's delayed because the shop in Switzerland were I bought it first said mid-november and yesterday I received a message saying it would be available in first of december.



That is again not with sennheiser directly. Sennheiser are still claiming mid-November.


----------



## albau

sly_in_the_sky said:


> Incredible to ear all those issue with the Jabra... I have one standard 65T Elite and a 65T Active and no problem, no/rare cuts, no drops, no balance issue and NO Hiss....


Same here and I have two pairs (one I keep at work) of 65t elites.


----------



## webvan

webvan said:


> Yes that's true, particularly when you can use silicone tips that don't require any "molding" to your ear, as is the case with the 65Ts.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



So I've more or less deciphered their pie charts using Google Translate Image, only a couple don't make sense if any one reads Japanese ?







From Top, clockwise :
- Highs
- Mids
- Lows
- Sound Insulation
- Leakage
- Feeling of Fit
*- Poker ?
- Rythm ?*
- Resolution


----------



## clerkpalmer

kiwikozo said:


> That is again not with sennheiser directly. Sennheiser are still claiming mid-November.


Except it is mid November and multiple retailers have indicated to me they have no info on the release. I suppose they have 5 more days.


----------



## plisandro

webvan said:


> Wow that second site has TONS of reviews including of all the cheap "clones" that can be found on Amazon https://tinyurl.com/yapr3syt. I'm not sure what they show in their "pie" graphs though as Google Translate doesn't translate them. They seem to be impressed by the SQ of the Lesoom S1 but complain about usability. They don't seem to like the WF-1000x though and go to the lengths of transcribing a conversation with a sales guy about them https://tinyurl.com/yaqjwa9h ! Amazing stuff



Yeah, was just going through the site after noticing the same. For example, they rave about the Tiamat Thor which now means i have another device on my watchlist - i don't think i've seen a review for these anywhere else in the net.

A feature that i really need these days is wireless charging. Man, if Jabra offered a version of the 65t with this i'd buy three pairs in a heartbeat.


----------



## jrprana

kiwikozo said:


> That is again not with sennheiser directly. Sennheiser are still claiming mid-November.



This is copied from Sennheiser's Canadian website:

There are pre-order item(s) in the cart. Shipment of the ordered items may be delayed until 30/11/2018 for MOMENTUM True Wireless.


----------



## webvan (Nov 15, 2018)

The review of the apparently perfect Lesoom S1 (30£ on Amazon UK) is here https://tinyurl.com/ybud7rgj but he can't recommend them to the difficulty in operating them apparently so it's a bit confusing...Let's wait for the SP700N review he said he had in the works ! EDIT : here it is : https://tinyurl.com/yaq8dv4v 
And he's not really impressed, complains about the lack of the advertised ANC, can't blame him for that, but also of the lack of bass which is a bit surprising to me. Guess he didn't get a good fit with the eartips.


----------



## nc8000

webvan said:


> Have you had a chance to try calls with the Havits ? That's where cheaper devices falter in my experience.
> 
> @sly_in_the_sky Yes the 65Ts seem to be the best SQ/NC/comfort/looks/battery life compromise at this point. One thing about IEMs with good passive isolation though is that they produce a "thump" when you're walking, likely the air trapped in the ear canal being compressed, and that's not good for the SQ, almost worse than the "micro sounds" produced by the cables IMHO.



No I have not yet made a call with the Havit, I don’t make very many calls at all, probably only a few a week at most when I’m mobile


----------



## SomeGuyDude

I'll be taking the MW07 for a test drive once my company clears my latest check. Looking forward to it.


----------



## chinmie

webvan said:


> Yes that's true, particularly when you can use silicone tips that don't require any "molding" to your ear, as is the case with the 65Ts.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



at least the review agreed that the WF1000X sounded wonderful 
i haven't check the call quality, but as i only use the WF1000X purely at home for listening to music, it's fine for me. i use the earin and 65t when i go out to malls, jogging, or riding motorcycle. they both do great job taking phone calls even with my helmet on


----------



## nc8000

Had my first 2 phone calls on the Havit G1 on tonights 12km walk, each lasting about 10 minutes. No problem hearing the other party and no complaints from the other party about not hearing me. One surprise was that the call only comes in the right ear and no sound in the left ear, the E8 has sound in both ears. Still I would say call quality is no worse the E8 and possibly even a little better.


----------



## clerkpalmer

korefuji said:


> Received my MW07's this morning. First impressions are: stunning presentation, design and build quality. Disappointed there's no app, so it means no firmware updates possible.
> 
> Sound-wise, I heard no hissing that another user experienced. Bass is a little stronger than I'm used to, but it's not deal breaker. The default fins and tips were a great fit, I don't know if I should change them since they work so well. The sound in other areas is loud and punchy, the tips seem to isolate the music well in my ear canals.
> 
> ...



Korefuji, I just received my now third pair of MW07s.  This pair exhibits the same left side hiss that my second pair had (first pair was a dud).  The hiss is noticeable in the left side when there is no music playing.  Hiss may not be the right word but it's static.  It's not very loud but its absolutely noticeable and it can be heard if you focus on it in soft passages.  I would say it's exactly the same as the last pair.  Can you confirm no hiss at all in left side with no music playing?  This will drive me crazy.  On the plus side, these things sound absolutely amazing and I forgot how rich the sound was.  They probably sound good enough to keep and just live with the white noise/hiss.  When I asked M&D about it, they said some hiss would be noticeable in the left when the pair were connecting but this is present at all times.  With 2 pairs doing the same thing, I can only assume this is a flaw or a byproduct of the tech.  I'm going to email M&D about it again and see if anyone else has mentioned it.  The hiss largely disappears when music is going at a moderate volume for those who are considering these.  Reminds me of the Mobius "hiss" issue except it's only in one side.


----------



## Ocelitgol

any update on the TRN BT20?


----------



## webvan

What do you mean ? AliExpress shipments take at least two weeks to make it over from China !


nc8000 said:


> Had my first 2 phone calls on the Havit G1 on tonights 12km walk, each lasting about 10 minutes. No problem hearing the other party and no complaints from the other party about not hearing me. One surprise was that the call only comes in the right ear and no sound in the left ear, the E8 has sound in both ears. Still I would say call quality is no worse the E8 and possibly even a little better.



Good to hear, so same as the Sony, only one ear, whereas the Jabras have the call in both ears. I actually made a call with the Sony WF-1000x today and the other couldn't hear me well at all, unlike with the Jabras...so it seems that the Sonys only really have the SQ going for them, all the rest is poor to average (design, battery life, ambient sound that's very weak, hard to have a conversation without removing them). I did notice a very very slight impact of ANC on traffic noise.


----------



## clerkpalmer

stormers said:


> any update on the TRN BT20?



Mine are set to arrive in early December.


----------



## korefuji

clerkpalmer said:


> Korefuji, I just received my now third pair of MW07s.  This pair exhibits the same left side hiss that my second pair had (first pair was a dud).  The hiss is noticeable in the left side when there is no music playing.  Hiss may not be the right word but it's static.  It's not very loud but its absolutely noticeable and it can be heard if you focus on it in soft passages.  I would say it's exactly the same as the last pair.  Can you confirm no hiss at all in left side with no music playing?  This will drive me crazy.  On the plus side, these things sound absolutely amazing and I forgot how rich the sound was.  They probably sound good enough to keep and just live with the white noise/hiss.  When I asked M&D about it, they said some hiss would be noticeable in the left when the pair were connecting but this is present at all times.  With 2 pairs doing the same thing, I can only assume this is a flaw or a byproduct of the tech.  I'm going to email M&D about it again and see if anyone else has mentioned it.  The hiss largely disappears when music is going at a moderate volume for those who are considering these.  Reminds me of the Mobius "hiss" issue except it's only in one side.




Hi there, Ive got them on right now, and with no music playing there's only a light sound of something, maybe the power unit in the device? But it's barely, if even noticeable unless i focus on it considerably, but tbh, I've had that with the jabras, nuhearas, etc. It sounds like this might be an issue with many earbuds, including wired wireless types, I've had the same thing. ymmv, as to which models you've tried. I can only assume that you can hear the power unit/drive unit.

I can hear it as a kinda light hiss now, now that I focus on it, but it's not specifically from the left side, it seems more centered.- is it the  connection  perhaps, because it's on?? I get that from all my bluetooth headsets tbh. But I don't know if there's a specific sound you're trying to get at. I hope you get yours sorted, and can confirm the issue. Maybe I got lucky with a pair that doesn't have the same issue? I can't really say for sure. It might just be because it's an iphone, and android doesnt' get this?

I took these out for a drive today. I found there was no difference with the wind blowing, as it didn't pick it up. I also found I had a couple of breakups, but only when my phone was moving around my pocket considerably. As for noise isolation, they're not perfect, but pretty damn good, when music is playing. I'm quite pleased with this pair of ear buds.


----------



## Ocelitgol

clerkpalmer said:


> Mine are set to arrive in early December.


awesome....looking forward to the impressions. I don't suppose there's any retailer in the US....


----------



## kiwikozo

I called Sennheiser UK earlier today, they are not certain about when they'll ship my pre-order. Said my card would be charged as soon as it dispatches, so if they send it off tomorrow I'd get an email etc...

Fingers crossed they prioritize the early pre-orders.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

Fast take on the mw07: dayum.

No hiss or imbalance. The sound is incredible and the presentation (case, build) is crazy premium. I got used to the Bose rock solid fit so we'll see how these do in a workout but just wow. Highs are a bit hot for me but I listen to a lot of metal so that's not uncommon thanks to how it's often produced.


----------



## clerkpalmer

korefuji said:


> Hi there, Ive got them on right now, and with no music playing there's only a light sound of something, maybe the power unit in the device? But it's barely, if even noticeable unless i focus on it considerably, but tbh, I've had that with the jabras, nuhearas, etc. It sounds like this might be an issue with many earbuds, including wired wireless types, I've had the same thing. ymmv, as to which models you've tried. I can only assume that you can hear the power unit/drive unit.
> 
> I can hear it as a kinda light hiss now, now that I focus on it, but it's not specifically from the left side, it seems more centered.- is it the  connection  perhaps, because it's on?? I get that from all my bluetooth headsets tbh. But I don't know if there's a specific sound you're trying to get at. I hope you get yours sorted, and can confirm the issue. Maybe I got lucky with a pair that doesn't have the same issue? I can't really say for sure. It might just be because it's an iphone, and android doesnt' get this?
> 
> I took these out for a drive today. I found there was no difference with the wind blowing, as it didn't pick it up. I also found I had a couple of breakups, but only when my phone was moving around my pocket considerably. As for noise isolation, they're not perfect, but pretty damn good, when music is playing. I'm quite pleased with this pair of ear buds.



Thanks for commenting.  I suppose people could have different reactions to hiss.  Yes, I agree it sounds like power in the left side but on mine it's absolutely on the left.  I cannot hear anything on the right.  It sounds like we may be hearing the same thing and maybe I'm just more sensitive to it - although my hearing is pretty well damaged at this point.  My guess is most people wouldn't notice or care but I am surprised.  I don't hear anything like this on the Jabras or Sonys.  M&D said I should not hear any "continuous or unwanted noise" but they could only say they were still testing my pair.  I wonder if its related to the source - I am using an iPhone but again, I haven't noticed this on my other TW sets. Maybe it's in the way M&D implemented the near-field connection?  Anyway, I'm probably just going to live with it.  It would be unacceptable for my critical listening rig but these are not designed for that.


----------



## clerkpalmer

SomeGuyDude said:


> Fast take on the mw07: dayum.
> 
> No hiss or imbalance. The sound is incredible and the presentation (case, build) is crazy premium. I got used to the Bose rock solid fit so we'll see how these do in a workout but just wow. Highs are a bit hot for me but I listen to a lot of metal so that's not uncommon thanks to how it's often produced.



Okay, now you guys are making me crazy.  Do you hear anything at all on the left side when there is no music? Anything?  Bueller?


----------



## SomeGuyDude

clerkpalmer said:


> Okay, now you guys are making me crazy.  Do you hear anything at all on the left side when there is no music? Anything?  Bueller?



Zip. And keep in mind I've returned tons of Jabras because of that very issue.


----------



## clerkpalmer

SomeGuyDude said:


> Zip. And keep in mind I've returned tons of Jabras because of that very issue.


Bizarre. Once a fluke but two sets tells me either I have bad luck or perhaps some units but not all have some qc issues.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

clerkpalmer said:


> Bizarre. Once a fluke but two sets tells me either I have bad luck or perhaps some units but not all have some qc issues.



I feel you man. I tried the hahaJa legit four times and every set had it for me. Wonder if it's related to source. I admit I'm on a new phone...


----------



## clerkpalmer

SomeGuyDude said:


> I feel you man. I tried the hahaJa legit four times and every set had it for me. Wonder if it's related to source. I admit I'm on a new phone...



I don’t think it’s the source because I hear it even if I disconnect Bluetooth. And I have a brand new iPhone Xs. On the bright side, the sq is a meaningful upgrade over the competition. These are bad ass.


----------



## n20nine

jeffri said:


> Here is two reviews (in Japanese) that I could find for the CKR7TW:
> 
> https://www.gizmodo.jp/2018/11/audio-technica-ath-ckr7tw.html
> https://www.ear-phone-review.com/entry/2018/11/13/【完全ワイヤレスイヤホン_audio-technica_ATH-CKR7TW_レビュー】見通
> ...



Nice. When do you expect to get yours? Still keeping an eye on them here in the UK.


----------



## n20nine

kiwikozo said:


> I called Sennheiser UK earlier today, they are not certain about when they'll ship my pre-order. Said my card would be charged as soon as it dispatches, so if they send it off tomorrow I'd get an email etc...
> 
> Fingers crossed they prioritize the early pre-orders.



They are really clueless. Same answer I got from their Facebook page. Hoping I get mine soon and want to compare against the ATHs


----------



## korefuji

clerkpalmer said:


> I don’t think it’s the source because I hear it even if I disconnect Bluetooth. And I have a brand new iPhone Xs. On the bright side, the sq is a meaningful upgrade over the competition. These are bad ass.



Oh interesting, so you hear something even when the bt dc's? Really? You must have super sensitive ears really, or you really got some bad luck on M&D. Sorry to hear mate, I would return them if possible, and complain about the hiss. You shouldn't settle for something that is causing you annoyance.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

korefuji said:


> Oh interesting, so you hear something even when the bt dc's? Really? You must have super sensitive ears really, or you really got some bad luck on M&D. Sorry to hear mate, I would return them if possible, and complain about the hiss. You shouldn't settle for something that is causing you annoyance.



That was the issue I had with the Jabras. Literally as soon as they were in "make a sound" mode, which included the simple alert that I was turning it on, I'd get that left-side hiss. I definitely agree that if I was experiencing a hiss/imbalance on a $300 set I'd try another one to see if it sounded better. I'll compromise QC if it's a ChiFi gym set but not something like this.

Battery life might be on the shorter end for these, but the fact that you get THREE additional charges instead of 2 with the case helps a lot. It's not often I'd have them in my ears for 5 hours straight anyway, so being able to carry the case around all day long and be good helps out. We'll see what's up with the gym tomorrow.


----------



## kiwikozo

n20nine said:


> They are really clueless. Same answer I got from their Facebook page. Hoping I get mine soon and want to compare against the ATHs



I don't understand how they can't provide an official date. Not as if they are a new company, and new to product releases/production.......

I understand it's a pre-order so I can't be too demanding but we are early adopters but just give me a date dammit Sennheiser


----------



## chinmie

SomeGuyDude said:


> That was the issue I had with the Jabras. Literally as soon as they were in "make a sound" mode, which included the simple alert that I was turning it on, I'd get that left-side hiss. I definitely agree that if I was experiencing a hiss/imbalance on a $300 set I'd try another one to see if it sounded better. I'll compromise QC if it's a ChiFi gym set but not something like this.
> 
> Battery life might be on the shorter end for these, but the fact that you get THREE additional charges instead of 2 with the case helps a lot. It's not often I'd have them in my ears for 5 hours straight anyway, so being able to carry the case around all day long and be good helps out. We'll see what's up with the gym tomorrow.



what phones have you tried the jabra with?did all exhibit the same problem? 
with all these different problems with different users ranging from hissing, bad connections, imbalances, straight to no problem at all, i suspect the problem is compatibility between phones with the sound+ app and the jabraservice..although the imbalance still affected/worsen by the volume on the unit itself.


----------



## chrisbriton

Apologies if this is an obvious question, why would the 65t’s sound considerably louder connected to an iPhone Xs and Apple Watch 3 and annoying quiet with an LG v30 phone?

Thought it might just be Bluetooth 5.0 (or the lack of) causing the difference but the Apple Watch doesn't have Bt5.0 and plays at the same decent volume as the iPhone


----------



## chinmie

chrisbriton said:


> Apologies if this is an obvious question, why would the 65t’s sound considerably louder connected to an iPhone Xs and Apple Watch 3 and annoying quiet with an LG v30 phone?
> 
> Thought it might just be Bluetooth 5.0 (or the lack of) causing the difference but the Apple Watch doesn't have Bt5.0 and plays at the same decent volume as the iPhone



try this, it may (or not) make a difference on the volume problem:

with the 65t connected to phone, enter your Bluetooth settings, and click the three dot to enter a menu, then turn "media volume sync" ON . then turn up the volume on both your phone and eartips to maximum (careful not to let anything playing or you might blow your hearing).
after that,  turn "media volume sync" OFF, and put the earpieces inside the case to reset. in my case it helps increase the volume on the 65t


----------



## albau (Nov 15, 2018)

SomeGuyDude said:


> Fast take on the mw07: dayum...


I'm getting more and more interested in MW07. But lack of means for an OTA firmware update is a bummer (native EQing via app would've been also nice). We all know, especially with TWS, how many tech things may go wrong and how subsequent software updates change the product for the better, sometimes dramatically. When you buy a gadget for $300 it's only normal to expect it to be protected from bugs and fast obsolesce. It's not out of ordinary for companies first to release hardware and then sometime later add the app. Did M&D ever promised it? Anybody asked if they plan to?


----------



## chrisbriton

Thanks, will give that a go


----------



## SomeGuyDude

chinmie said:


> what phones have you tried the jabra with?did all exhibit the same problem?
> with all these different problems with different users ranging from hissing, bad connections, imbalances, straight to no problem at all, i suspect the problem is compatibility between phones with the sound+ app and the jabraservice..although the imbalance still affected/worsen by the volume on the unit itself.



A few Samsungs and they did all show the issue. The problem is that the hiss/crackle would happen even when it wasn't connected to anything. Just turning it on with the little alert did it.

I suspect sets that have the master/slave thing going are more prone to it.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

albau said:


> I'm getting more and more interested in MW07. But lack of means for an OTA firmware update is a bummer (native EQing via app would've been also nice). We all know, especially with TWS, how many tech things may go wrong and how subsequent software updates change the product for the better, sometimes dramatically. When you buy a gadget for $300 it's only normal to expect it to be protected from bugs and fast obsolesce. It's not out of ordinary for companies first to release hardware and then sometime later add the app. Did M&D ever promised it? Anybody asked if they plan to?



I think the difference here is that the MW07, like VModa's, don't actually need firmware updates because theirs aren't doing anything software-side, they're essentially just passive receivers with a bluetooth attachment. The Bose/Sony types do a lot of processing and that means internal software that will indeed need updates.


----------



## clerkpalmer

albau said:


> I'm getting more and more interested in MW07. But lack of means for an OTA firmware update is a bummer (native EQing via app would've been also nice). We all know, especially with TWS, how many tech things may go wrong and how subsequent software updates change the product for the better, sometimes dramatically. When you buy a gadget for $300 it's only normal to expect it to be protected from bugs and fast obsolesce. It's not out of ordinary for companies first to release hardware and then sometime later add the app. Did M&D ever promised it? Anybody asked if they plan to?



They told me today if the hiss is a frequent issue they could issue a firmware update so maybe they have something in the works.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

clerkpalmer said:


> They told me today if the hiss is a frequent issue they could issue a firmware update so maybe they have something in the works.



I wonder if there IS some method of doing it. I mean in theory anything can be OTA'd since there's a bluetooth connection and obviously there's tech inside the headphones. M&D just seems to be keeping things fairly simple.


----------



## jeffri

n20nine said:


> Nice. When do you expect to get yours? Still keeping an eye on them here in the UK.



Not sure yet. Possibly next week or two.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

MW07 update: Battery life seemed REALLY short, from 100 to 20 in... not that long (wasn't checking exactly). I'm willing to chalk that up to being an early charge so it might need a few whacks to actually be a properly reported full charge, but we'll see. Leaving it in the case overnight.


----------



## Chrisdu18e

I've just send back my WM07. The SQ is really better, and more powerful than my Jabra Elite active 65T. But the buttons ergonomics is awful. There is no external mics (except for a phone conversation), so if you want to hear someone or something, even if you touch the pause button you have to put off the wm07 of your ear because the isolation is really good. 
Last but not least, the operating life : less than 3 hours and no possibility to upgrade the product.
It's not a TW adapted to my everyday use.
I'm waiting the Sennheiser.
I've seen a little early impressions review :


----------



## nbacha

Hey guys, just picked up a pair of sp700n from treasure truck and was disappointed at first, bass was all over the place and highs were quite sharp.
Tried an old pair of comply truly wireless and has improved things immensely but i can only find mediums here in the UK and one of my ears is a bit too big for that 
Does anyone know of any complys with that waxguard that will fit?


----------



## clerkpalmer

Chrisdu18e said:


> I've just send back my WM07. The SQ is really better, and more powerful than my Jabra Elite active 65T. But the buttons ergonomics is awful. There is no external mics (except for a phone conversation), so if you want to hear someone or something, even if you touch the pause button you have to put off the wm07 of your ear because the isolation is really good.
> Last but not least, the operating life : less than 3 hours and no possibility to upgrade the product.
> It's not a TW adapted to my everyday use.
> I'm waiting the Sennheiser.
> I've seen a little early impressions review :



What volume levels are you guys using on mw07?


----------



## n20nine

So I called up Sennheiser and they asked me to call Digital River, the guys who are in-charge of their online store. Long story short, both parties have no idea when the units will be shipped out and hesitantly confirmed a delay with no target release date. Such a bummer. I might cancel the Sennheiser's and go with the ATH depending on initial reviews and availability.


----------



## clerkpalmer

n20nine said:


> So I called up Sennheiser and they asked me to call Digital River, the guys who are in-charge of their online store. Long story short, both parties have no idea when the units will be shipped out and hesitantly confirmed a delay with no target release date. Such a bummer. I might cancel the Sennheiser's and go with the ATH depending on initial reviews and availability.



You’d think it was crowdfunded. Yikes. Digital river is the worst.


----------



## n20nine

Chrisdu18e said:


> I've just send back my WM07. The SQ is really better, and more powerful than my Jabra Elite active 65T. But the buttons ergonomics is awful. There is no external mics (except for a phone conversation), so if you want to hear someone or something, even if you touch the pause button you have to put off the wm07 of your ear because the isolation is really good.
> Last but not least, the operating life : less than 3 hours and no possibility to upgrade the product.
> It's not a TW adapted to my everyday use.
> I'm waiting the Sennheiser.
> I've seen a little early impressions review :




Thanks, though the first impressions almost imply that the WF-1000X had slightly smoother highs and lows? My only gripe with the WF-1000x when I had it briefly was that it had video lag and you have to turn the volume high up to be able to hear properly. Equally, the ANC wasn't most effective.


----------



## n20nine

clerkpalmer said:


> You’d think it was crowdfunded. Yikes. Digital river is the worst.


Yes such a disappointment.


----------



## Chrisdu18e

clerkpalmer said:


> What volume levels are you guys using on mw07?


With my iphone xs, it was less than a third of the volume inside and very slightly outside. The WM07 are really powerful.
The isolation with the WM07 was so important for my ear that with no volume it was nearly like the QC 35's NC.

Sorry for the syntax or vocabulary mistakes, I'm a non english speaker (from france).


----------



## TYATYA

What is highest sound quality model true wireless you guys have listened to?

To me Jabra elite 65t is best most neutral and clairy among sony wf-1000x, bose sport free, pamu touch v2, rowkin bit.

Pamu touch v2 is natively not good at bass(overly sub bass), blur mid and thin treble. But it can be correction easily by 10 band graphic eq to bring a much better sound, close to jabra65t neutral and detail


----------



## clerkpalmer

Chrisdu18e said:


> With my iphone xs, it was less than a third of the volume inside and very slightly outside. The WM07 are really powerful.
> The isolation with the WM07 was so important for my ear that with no volume it was nearly like the QC 35's NC.
> 
> Sorry for the syntax or vocabulary mistakes, I'm a non english speaker (from france).



Disappointing on the battery issue.  Definitely questioning my decision to try the MW07 again.  M&D support has acknowledged the hiss is a known issue with a small number of units and they are looking into to, but they are being cagey about whether they will warrant the product since I purchased it on ebay.  I'll report back on the outcome of my discussion with them.  I certainly assumed the risk by buying on ebay so I get what I deserve but I would think they would want to resolve the issue.  We will see.


----------



## MyrenJobrah

Chrisdu18e said:


> With my iphone xs, it was less than a third of the volume inside and very slightly outside. The WM07 are really powerful.
> The isolation with the WM07 was so important for my ear that with no volume it was nearly like the QC 35's NC.
> 
> Sorry for the syntax or vocabulary mistakes, I'm a non english speaker (from france).



I had the MW07 and returned it because the volume was not loud enough. The bass was also terrible at the default levels, I had to tone it down on EQ so it wouldn't get muddy.. this is for a song like "7 minute freestyle" by 21 Savage, has a ton of bass.

Fortunately I just got word that my Sennheisers will ship today or Monday (my IE80s stopped working and I convinced them to let me have the true wireless as a replacement). I'm hoping that their sound signature is bass heavy so I don't have to buy the vegas..


----------



## n20nine

MyrenJobrah said:


> I had the MW07 and returned it because the volume was not loud enough. The bass was also terrible at the default levels, I had to tone it down on EQ so it wouldn't get muddy.. this is for a song like "7 minute freestyle" by 21 Savage, has a ton of bass.
> 
> Fortunately I just got word that my Sennheisers will ship today or Monday (my IE80s stopped working and I convinced them to let me have the true wireless as a replacement). I'm hoping that their sound signature is bass heavy so I don't have to buy the vegas..



Where did you hear about the Sennheiser? They just told me they are delayed.


----------



## webvan

TYATYA said:


> What is highest sound quality model true wireless you guys have listened to?
> 
> To me Jabra elite 65t is best most neutral and clairy among sony wf-1000x, bose sport free, pamu touch v2, rowkin bit.
> 
> Pamu touch v2 is natively not good at bass(overly sub bass), blur mid and thin treble. But it can be correction easily by 10 band graphic eq to bring a much better sound, close to jabra65t neutral and detail



I've compared the Jabra Elite Sport, the 65T and the sony wf-1000x and the Sony has the best SQ by a country mile ! Crystalline sound, powerful bass (with bass boost setting), wide stereo picture, nice "depth". I'd put the JSE next, nice but with less depth and width. The 65T last, they're ok but they're a bit "muddy".

So the MW07 had passive isolation on par with the ANC of the QC 35 ?! That must be something !


----------



## webvan

nbacha said:


> Hey guys, just picked up a pair of sp700n from treasure truck and was disappointed at first, bass was all over the place and highs were quite sharp.
> Tried an old pair of comply truly wireless and has improved things immensely but i can only find mediums here in the UK and one of my ears is a bit too big for that
> Does anyone know of any complys with that waxguard that will fit?



I've managed to put the Tsx-200 L on the WF-1000X but I don't like the sound, the great clarity is mostly lost, it sounds muffled. I've switched to the old Sony Hybrid (Silicone with foam core) I had hanging around. They may have been replaced by the thick silicon tips that come with the WF-1000x and that don't fit me well.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

MW07 update: The battery is... a bit up and down. After about 2 and a half hour I got that dreaded "low power" beep (meaning it was reporting 20% or so), so I dunno if they'd make it all the way to the reported 3.5hr. However, after maybe ten freakin' minutes in the case we were back up to _eighty percent_. Okay, sure, it dropped down to 60% after fifteen minutes but the fact that it charges that dang quickly means getting a day out of them shouldn't be too hard, and with minimal interruption. We'll see, though. Being able to leave the Bose in for 4+ hours with no worry was nice.


----------



## clerkpalmer

SomeGuyDude said:


> MW07 update: The battery is... a bit up and down. After about 2 and a half hour I got that dreaded "low power" beep (meaning it was reporting 20% or so), so I dunno if they'd make it all the way to the reported 3.5hr. However, after maybe ten freakin' minutes in the case we were back up to _eighty percent_. Okay, sure, it dropped down to 60% after fifteen minutes but the fact that it charges that dang quickly means getting a day out of them shouldn't be too hard, and with minimal interruption. We'll see, though. Being able to leave the Bose in for 4+ hours with no worry was nice.



I don't think the battery software is very good on them. If I use them for even 15 minutes, the case flahes red rather than yellow or green.  So, I'm inclined to think it's just not very useful.


----------



## SomeGuyDude (Nov 16, 2018)

clerkpalmer said:


> I don't think the battery software is very good on them. If I use them for even 15 minutes, the case flahes red rather than yellow or green.  So, I'm inclined to think it's just not very useful.



Whoa. I admit I didn't run into that. I'll give them a few more weeks and see how they do and maybe think about the Senns if the battery life becomes an issue. Just... wow they sound good. Easily the best TWE I've heard and it's not even close.

EDIT: I do love how sleek they are, though. I wear a skullcap when I work out so they tuck right under and it makes them 100% super secure.


----------



## MyrenJobrah (Nov 16, 2018)

n20nine said:


> Where did you hear about the Sennheiser? They just told me they are delayed.



I spoke to the warranty department. For their warranty claims, they make replacements a "Priority 1" status meaning they get fulfilled before anyone else.

That being said, the situation is that a lot of the shipments due for these headphones went out to big retailers like Amazon, but some of them also get sent to the warranty department. The delay you're hearing about is probably because of your ranking on the preorder list, whereever you purchased from. The headphones are not delayed (I'm assuming this based on mine shipping), it's just that they will be delayed for some people due to lack of supply.


Also, some more thoughts on the MW07: 

1) Battery life was not good. Charging also wasn't as fast as I had hoped. 
2) They are big. I felt like Frankenstein with those huge things sticking out of my ears. 
3) They aren't really a secure fit for lifting (for my ears at least) - when struggling on a set and my head was shaking due to straining, they felt like they'd fall out. 
4) The bluetooth connectivity is good, but the major problem is that if I took a call on my iphone and used my phone to talk, I'd get a call failure every time, so I had to turn off bluetooth and then take the call. 
5) Volume was not satisfying at all. If this is the case with true wireless across the board, I think I'll go back to wired. It seems to be the case because I have the same issue with the Samsung gear icon X.


----------



## Sharkhunter

I just sold my E8s. They felt to me as the right size. I am looking to pick Sennheiser TWS. But i do feel that they might protrude more than the E8s.

Amazon is the only one that have advertised the estimate - shipping date to be Dec 15th. Crutchfield doesnt have a date yet.


----------



## webreaper

Question - anyone compared the Jabra Elite Sport against the Jabra Elite Active 65T (i.e., tried both)? I ordered some 65Ts yesterday, but they haven't been shipped and I noticed that Amazon have the Sports for £149 (reduced from £199). So that makes them cheaper than the Actives. Wondering whether there's any difference in SQ etc?


----------



## SomeGuyDude

MyrenJobrah said:


> Also, some more thoughts on the MW07:
> 
> ...
> 
> ...



Gotta take exception to these two. The MW07 is practically flat to your head and doesn't stick out at all. And as for volume, even as a metalhead to listens to music stupidly loud they gave me volume with plenty of overhead.


----------



## clerkpalmer

SomeGuyDude said:


> Gotta take exception to these two. The MW07 is practically flat to your head and doesn't stick out at all. And as for volume, even as a metalhead to listens to music stupidly loud they gave me volume with plenty of overhead.



Surprises me too. They are as sleek as anything I've seen.  As for volume, wow, if they don't get loud enough, not sure what to say.  I couldn't get past 50% on my iPhone.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

I can understand if someone thinks all TWE should be like those crazy tiny Rowkins or whatever that nearly vanish into the ear like a hearing aid, but those are the minority and TBH I think the MW07 is pretty elegant looking. I've gotten comments on them already and that hasn't happened before.


----------



## kiwikozo

MyrenJobrah said:


> I spoke to the warranty department. For their warranty claims, they make replacements a "Priority 1" status meaning they get fulfilled before anyone else.
> 
> That being said, the situation is that a lot of the shipments due for these headphones went out to big retailers like Amazon, but some of them also get sent to the warranty department. The delay you're hearing about is probably because of your ranking on the preorder list, wherever you purchased from. The headphones are not delayed (I'm assuming this based on mine shipping), it's just that they will be delayed for some people due to lack of supply.



What headphone are they replacing? Are they charging you the difference?

Sounds a bit fishy, like they're just saying it for the sake of it.


----------



## Sharkhunter

*psst*. checkout audio46.com. I just placed an order there. I called now and they said that they are getting sennheiser TWS in stock next wednesday.. I dont know how much it is true over there. i will report in if anything happens


----------



## MyrenJobrah

kiwikozo said:


> What headphone are they replacing? Are they charging you the difference?
> 
> Sounds a bit fishy, like they're just saying it for the sake of it.



The headphones I sent in for repair resulted in a default replacement that was higher in price than the true wireless (not by much). Wasn't difficult to convince them to ship out the true wireless, as I didn't want the default replacement. 

I'm not sure why you think a company like Sennheiser would lie? I already have a confirmation in email.


----------



## kiwikozo

MyrenJobrah said:


> The headphones I sent in for repair resulted in a default replacement that was higher in price than the true wireless (not by much). Wasn't difficult to convince them to ship out the true wireless, as I didn't want the default replacement.
> 
> I'm not sure why you think a company like Sennheiser would lie? I already have a confirmation in email.



Companies, or more specifically "customer service representatives" of large companies lie with best intentions.


----------



## kiwikozo

A few more RHA true connect reviews:

https://www.reddit.com/r/Earbuds/comments/9xeqxs/review_rha_trueconnect/


----------



## SomeGuyDude

kiwikozo said:


> A few more RHA true connect reviews:
> 
> https://www.reddit.com/r/Earbuds/comments/9xeqxs/review_rha_trueconnect/



3.5hr battery life seems to be more standard lately than it should be...


----------



## kiwikozo

SomeGuyDude said:


> 3.5hr battery life seems to be more standard lately than it should be...



They are quoted to have 5 hours, but I bet that's at 60% volume. Plenty of reviews are complaining that they do not get loud enough - so I assume at 100% volume which still isn't loud enough they drain within 3-3.5 hours.

I'm sure RHA will learn from this and make some incredible TW headphones for their next model.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

I noticed people saying the Senns tap out within 4 hours as well. The MW07, which absolutely do get loud enough, go dead in over 3 and while that IS a difference it's not really a huge difference enough to make me want to switch.

Bose freakin spoiled me. I swear I could get six with those.


----------



## webvan

kiwikozo said:


> A few more RHA true connect reviews:
> 
> https://www.reddit.com/r/Earbuds/comments/9xeqxs/review_rha_trueconnect/


Thanks for the link but when you read "'Much better (EDIT : the volume I think) than the Jabra Elite 65t, I didn't like them at all (waste of money)" in a review you have to question its value...

I remember being surprised that david8613 had several TWs but having now tried a few I can see the point of that "strategy" as there doesn't seem to be one out there that covers all the bases : SQ, Comfort, battery life, multiple connections, strong connection, isolation. The 65T are close since you could argue that they do well for the last 5 and SQ is decent...until you listen to the Sony WF1000-X...that have issues for 3/4/5. The Jabra Sport Elite do a bit better for 6 and possibly 1.  It seems to me that with the 65T+Sony WF1000-X, you're in a pretty good shape


----------



## SomeGuyDude

webvan said:


> Thanks for the link but when you read "'Much better (EDIT : the volume I think) than the Jabra Elite 65t, I didn't like them at all (waste of money)" in a review you have to question its value...
> 
> I remember being surprised that david8613 had several TWs but having now tried a few I can see the point of that "strategy" as there doesn't seem to be one out there that covers all the bases : SQ, Comfort, battery life, multiple connections, strong connection, isolation. The 65T are close since you could argue that they do well for the last 5 and SQ is decent...until you listen to the Sony WF1000-X...that have issues for 3/4/5. The Jabra Sport Elite do a bit better for 6 and possibly 1.  It seems to me that with the 65T+Sony WF1000-X, you're in a pretty good shape



Definitely a lot of compromises going on in the field currently, but then it's fairly new tech. The 65T still gets my vote for best all-rounder for anyone who doesn't get the gnarly his issues I did. The Sony are the best pure-gym headphones. Bose are just amazing for battery life. The MW07 is my current favorite that would be 100% perfect if the battery lasted longer.


----------



## clerkpalmer

my new fully charged mw07 crapped at at 2 hours and 20 minutes last night at 50 percent volume. Not sure what to make of that.


----------



## kiwikozo

If the Sennheiser Momentum TW last for 4 hours that will be okay. What gym session lasts more than 4 hours?

It will be a bit annoying if I'm using them prior to going to the gym, having to take them off in preparation to charge / "ration" the battery. But I'll work around it.

 I read somewhere saying they take 1.5 hours to fully charge so I'd imagine they have some form of faster charging to say 50%.


----------



## willryan042

My thoughts after having the MW07 for almost a week:

- overall I agree with what's already been said here: they sound incredible, feel super premium, and fit very securely

- but regarding fit, I've noticed that they do start getting a little uncomfortable after being left in for a while. I have the stock medium tips on and the smaller fins. I think I'd like an even smaller fin as it feels like i have to stuff them in my ears. I've tried taking the fins off but then it seems like the buds would fall right out.

- battery life is meh. especially that "low battery" beep. i swear it was going for 45 minutes before ultimately dying

- I haven't been able to intentionally reproduce this but I've had some strange experiences where the buds are paired, connected, and my iphone shows that it's playing music to them, but I don't hear anything. It's as if they're disconnected but all signs show that they ARE connected. The only way to fix this is to put them in their case, take them out, and reconnect. Hoping that it was just a fluke thing as it was annoying to fumble around with my phone and the buds for a couple minutes trying to sort out what was up was annoying.


I really want to like them though because they sound so good, and I much prefer actual buttons versus gesture controls. I'll keep using them to see if my ears get used to them, but I'm still curious about the ATH and Senn's.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

I've had that last problem before with different sets and phones. Think it's just a Bluetooth quirk.


----------



## james444

Had a chance to audition the Sennheiser Momentum TW today at a local audio exhibition.

Overall, quite a pleasant surprise. Fit felt secure and comfy. They stick out a bit more than the Earin M-2, but didn't make me look like a dork.

I had only about 15 minutes, not enough to test battery life, but enough to get a fairly good sound impression. Tonal signature was a bit v-shaped, with slightly emphasized bass, but not bloated like the Senn IE8/80. Bassheads need not apply. Pretty good mids presence and vocal timbre. Treble seemed a little uneven and sharp at times, but mostly free of sibilance. Foam tips might help to tame these further, but I had only silicone tips to try. The Senn rep also told me that the app includes an EQ.

Max volume was easily loud enough for my needs. Bottom line, like I said, overall a pleasant surprise, little to find fault with, actually.


----------



## n20nine

james444 said:


> Had a chance to audition the Sennheiser Momentum TW today at a local audio exhibition.
> 
> Overall, quite a pleasant surprise. Fit felt secure and comfy. They stick out a bit more than the Earin M-2, but didn't make me look like a dork.
> 
> ...



That's fantastic! Thanks for sharing. I am really leaning towards the Senn's at the moment, given how some ATH reviews have said they are too bright. I am inclined to a v-shape tonal signature. Where was this audio exhibition at? I just need to get my hands on one soon! Will still buy the ATH's for sake of comparison.


----------



## webreaper

james444 said:


> Had a chance to audition the Sennheiser Momentum TW today at a local audio exhibition. Tonal signature was a bit v-shaped, with slightly emphasized bass, but not bloated like the Senn IE8/80. Bassheads need not apply.



That's good to know. I'm replacing my lost (boo hoo) IE80s with some Jabra Elite Active 65Ts (which arrive Monday), because I didn't want to have to wait a month, and also didn't feel able to justify a £100 premium for marginal SQ gain. I'll see what the 65Ts are like though, and wait to hear reports of the functionality, fit, battery life and features of the Senns - could always swap them if they're really rated.


----------



## clerkpalmer

Switched to my Jabra 65s after using the mw07 last night on a flight. Wow the difference in sq is palpable. Hard to adjust to the 65s after the mw07 slight hiss or not.


----------



## rawrster

james444 said:


> Had a chance to audition the Sennheiser Momentum TW today at a local audio exhibition.
> 
> Overall, quite a pleasant surprise. Fit felt secure and comfy. They stick out a bit more than the Earin M-2, but didn't make me look like a dork.
> 
> ...



Do they isolate well enough for a commute or gym session with loud background music? They so look on the bigger side so hopefully weight won't be an issue

It looks like my local store has them as a pre-order so hopefully when they are in stock they let me have a little before buying.


----------



## MyrenJobrah

kiwikozo said:


> Companies, or more specifically "customer service representatives" of large companies lie with best intentions.



Sounds like jealousy. My senns shipped yesterday.


----------



## james444

n20nine said:


> That's fantastic! Thanks for sharing. I am really leaning towards the Senn's at the moment, given how some ATH reviews have said they are too bright. I am inclined to a v-shape tonal signature. Where was this audio exhibition at? I just need to get my hands on one soon! Will still buy the ATH's for sake of comparison.



The exhibition was "Klangbilder" in Vienna, Austria. It's open until tomorrow, so those nearby can still go and try them at the Sennheiser booth.



rawrster said:


> Do they isolate well enough for a commute or gym session with loud background music? They so look on the bigger side so hopefully weight won't be an issue
> 
> It looks like my local store has them as a pre-order so hopefully when they are in stock they let me have a little before buying.



I'd say Isolation is typical DD. With larger ears like mine, the housing fits the concha and adds to isolation. With smaller ears, they may stick out more and isolate a little less.


----------



## korefuji

MyrenJobrah said:


> Sounds like jealousy. My senns shipped yesterday.


do let us know how you get on with them, it still says mid november preorders everywhere in the UK


----------



## SomeGuyDude

Looking forward to impressions on the Senns. I was getting a bunch of warning beeps on the MW07 two hours into a workout and that's... not exactly optimal.


----------



## clerkpalmer (Nov 17, 2018)

SomeGuyDude said:


> Looking forward to impressions on the Senns. I was getting a bunch of warning beeps on the MW07 two hours into a workout and that's... not exactly optimal.



This is exactly my experience too. Most times 2 hours is fine for me but that’s a whole lot less than 3.5...

It seems the senns are shipping next week. Audio46 says Wednesday.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

clerkpalmer said:


> This is exactly my experience too. Most times 2 hours is fine for me but that’s a whole lot less than 3.5...
> 
> It seems the senns are shipping next week. Audio46 says Wednesday.



Yeah. If they could get even a solid 3 I'd be a-okay because I'm usually out of the gym after 2 and some change. I just need them to last a full workout. To be tapping out after 2 is a problem. I'll hold onto them until Best Buy gets the Senns in so I can do an exchange, depending on how reviews are for them.


----------



## webreaper

Seems like you guys are working too hard at the gym.


----------



## korefuji

I love the mw07's the battery is a big bummer though, I'm getting the same issue where at full volume it runs out in about an hour and half to two hours, not good at all frankly for my commute. I thought 3.5 hours would be fine, but less than that and it's a deal breaker which this is, I'm returning them to the store tomorrow for a full refund.

Guess all that's left is the sennheiser, or the ath, if they're any good, and by the reviews on amazon.jp they aren't. Ugh. Why so many compromises...


----------



## MyrenJobrah

SomeGuyDude said:


> Looking forward to impressions on the Senns. I was getting a bunch of warning beeps on the MW07 two hours into a workout and that's... not exactly optimal.


 Two hour workouts are not optimal..


----------



## SomeGuyDude

MyrenJobrah said:


> Two hour workouts are not optimal..



Thanks but I'm fairly confident I know what I'm doing.


----------



## korefuji

Really wish sennheiser kept to their word and released the kraken...true momentum wireless i mean, cuz then I could have exchanged them at the store, but nope, still states preorder


----------



## chinmie

james444 said:


> Had a chance to audition the Sennheiser Momentum TW today at a local audio exhibition.
> 
> Overall, quite a pleasant surprise. Fit felt secure and comfy. They stick out a bit more than the Earin M-2, but didn't make me look like a dork.
> 
> ...



how's the sound compared to the Earin?


----------



## james444

chinmie said:


> how's the sound compared to the Earin?



It's been some time since I had the Earin, but I remember it as pretty similar to the Senn in bass and mids (apart from the fact that texture of BA and DD bass feels always a bit different). However, the Senn has definitely more treble presence and extension, which makes it not as laid-back sounding as the Earin, but rather potentially aggressive with certain stuff at higher volume.


----------



## albau

I almost fell for MW07, was about to order. But this 2 hour battery stuff makes them totally unacceptable to me. I never wear my 65t for more that 3 hours in a row, but what I like is that I never have this fear of them running out on me at the gym or whenever. Really don’t understand what M&D were thinking...


----------



## Mormonsloot (Jan 20, 2019)

.


----------



## korefuji

Mormonsloot said:


> I want to go full wireless, but it's difficult because you know there are improvements right around the corner.


well you could wait...forever, there will always be improvements, if you buy a pair like a long term investment, you'll never buy. ymmv


----------



## kiwikozo (Nov 17, 2018)

https://www.xiaomist.com/2018/11/a-day-with-truly-cordless-headphones.html

This reviewer found the Senn TW to have a 2h 45m battery life and he found them uncomfortable after 1 hour.... Maybe the battery is a pre-release firmware issue.

I will try them when they arrive but I feel as though I might have to use my existing "bluetooth"  wired earphones for the gym and buy a pair of ie800s for work.

I don't listen to music that loud so maybe the RHA will be fine just for the gym.


----------



## clerkpalmer

Surprising with bt5.0 on board. I thought that was supposed to improve things.


----------



## kiwikozo

I really dislike the idea of headphones with less than 3h 30m battery life. Imagine 2h 45m 2 years down the line.

It's similar to having "range anxiety" with electric cars, like buying an electric car with a 50-mile range... Maybe the answer is to buy two pairs

I haven't done much research into bluetooth wired earphones - are there any decent high-end ones? They tend to have much longer battery life.


----------



## clerkpalmer (Nov 17, 2018)

kiwikozo said:


> I really dislike the idea of headphones with less than 3h 30m battery life. Imagine 2h 45m 2 years down the line.
> 
> It's similar to having "range anxiety" with electric cars, like buying an electric car with a 50-mile range... Maybe the answer is to buy two pairs
> 
> I haven't done much research into bluetooth wired earphones - are there any decent high-end ones? They tend to have much longer battery life.



There is a solid variety of higher end wired bt headphones many of which have excellent sq. Sennheiser, RHA, V-Moda cone to mind. By high end we are talking ing 200 max. After that, UE makes custom wired bt iems starting at 500. The sq on these is still better than tw as a general rule but there are exceptions.


----------



## korefuji

that's really disappointing about the hours on the senns, but after factoring the mw07 3.5 hours actual 1.5-2 on 100% volume, well, I guess i can live with the extra 45 mins on the senns. I'm jut a little disappointed, its nto over 3 hours, as it does state up to 4 hours. This tech is really in its infancy. The nuforce Befree8 by comparison have 16 hours I think, but the connection seems spotty even though their website says it eliminates it, i read reviews where people had trouble with the connections

I'm also waiting to see reviews of the WF-s900 from sony, i think they're the upgrade model of the 700n? I might have got the models confused. Damn, I may have to go back to the jabras after all.


----------



## kiwikozo

Thanks, I'll have a look. I'm ordering the RHA which will arrive on Monday. I will compare with the Senns whenever they arrive and hopefully end up keeping one of them.

Can't stand the cable for certain machines/exercises at the gym. I think I'll be okay with 3 hours battery life but no less.

RHA CL2 planars look very interesting. I love my Oppo PM-2s so I'm tempted to give them a try.


----------



## Hyperfluxe (Nov 17, 2018)

I haven't been following this thread since page 55 because I've been busy with my MEng degree so pardon me if this has been asked recently/frequently:

Are the Jabra Elite Active 65t's still the go-to for the best bang for buck true wireless IEM right now? I'm looking for a more fun, bassy sound signature for the gym (I loved the Bose SS Free but isolation is garbage and feels unstable during deadlifts, on the brink of falling out). My ADV Model 3 just split in half (they're not true wireless) so I need to buy a new pair ASAP. I've asked before around July/August and seen some threads on Reddit, seems like people are divided on whether the Elite 65t's are good enough for a basshead given appropriate app setting/EQ/etc. I mostly listen to some bass-heavy dubstep or DnB these days in the gym.

My current wired IEM that I'm using are the Carbo Mezzo (basically combines the best from the Tenore and Basso), so that's the kind of bass I'm looking for if anyone has a clue. Price doesn't really matter but I'd rather not spend over $250.

Thanks!


----------



## kiwikozo

Hyperfluxe said:


> I haven't been following this thread since page 55 because I've been busy with my MEng degree so pardon me if this has been asked recently/frequently:
> 
> Are the Jabra Elite Active 65t's still the go-to for the best bang for buck true wireless IEM right now? I'm looking for a more fun, bassy sound signature for the gym (I loved the Bose SS Free but isolation is garbage and feels unstable during deadlifts, on the brink of falling out). My ADV Model 3 just split in half (they're not true wireless) so I need to buy a new pair ASAP. I've asked before around July/August and seen some threads on Reddit, seems like people are divided on whether the Elite 65t's are good enough for a basshead given appropriate app setting/EQ/etc. I mostly listen to some bass-heavy dubstep or DnB these days in the gym.
> 
> ...



Sennheiser Momentum True Wireless is due for release any day now. Battery life quoted at 4h, but I reckon that's at a lower volume (judging from the review I found above)

RHA trueconnect have mixed reviews. Slightly bass heavy, probably the longest battery life out of the lot, even cheaper than the Jabra, 3-year warranty, supposedly comfortable for the gym + sweat resistant, lack of an app/firmware updates.


----------



## chinmie

Hyperfluxe said:


> I haven't been following this thread since page 55 because I've been busy with my MEng degree so pardon me if this has been asked recently/frequently:
> 
> Are the Jabra Elite Active 65t's still the go-to for the best bang for buck true wireless IEM right now? I'm looking for a more fun, bassy sound signature for the gym (I loved the Bose SS Free but isolation is garbage and feels unstable during deadlifts, on the brink of falling out). My ADV Model 3 just split in half (they're not true wireless) so I need to buy a new pair ASAP. I've asked before around July/August and seen some threads on Reddit, seems like people are divided on whether the Elite 65t's are good enough for a basshead given appropriate app setting/EQ/etc. I mostly listen to some bass-heavy dubstep or DnB these days in the gym.
> 
> ...



it's been a long time since i sold my mezzo, but from memory, the 65t can compete with the mezzo just fine. the bass is good on the 65t


----------



## firewatersun

@SomeGuyDude could I ask if you're getting 2 hours at full volume? I am looking at the MW07 or Sennheiser and it really seems like the MW07 would fit better, but 2 hours is completely unusable for me, 3.5 is the minimum...

I wonder if this is the same for other MW07 users too...wish they'd put in just a tiny bit bigger battery


----------



## chinmie

i tested the Sony WF SP900 briefly at the sony center today, i have to say i like it. nice Vshaped sound but the mids are not too recessed and still clear. bigger bass than the WF1000X. it doesn't have ANC, but from the short time i tried it the connection is good even with ambient sound on


----------



## Hyperfluxe

Looks like the JEA 65t's are going for as low as $125 CAD this week according to RFD forums, that's 1/3 the price of the Momentums. I think I'll pull the trigger on the 65t's then, hope the bass isn't too lacking!


----------



## korefuji

chinmie said:


> i tested the Sony WF SP900 briefly at the sony center today, i have to say i like it. nice Vshaped sound but the mids are not too recessed and still clear. bigger bass than the WF1000X. it doesn't have ANC, but from the short time i tried it the connection is good even with ambient sound on



Thanks for the brief, do you know when the release date is in europe? I haven't seen any reviews of them yet.

@Hyperfluxe Im not sure the sennheisers are 2/3rds the value of JEA65ts, especially if they only last less than 3 hours. Build quality and other stuff might be better though idk, I guess we wait an see. I returned my MW07's today, the battery life was a real bummer, at that price too, so I just returned them in the hopes that Sennheiser pull their finger out and release the True Wireless this week, and that they fix the usage period with a firmware fix.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

firewatersun said:


> @SomeGuyDude could I ask if you're getting 2 hours at full volume? I am looking at the MW07 or Sennheiser and it really seems like the MW07 would fit better, but 2 hours is completely unusable for me, 3.5 is the minimum...
> 
> I wonder if this is the same for other MW07 users too...wish they'd put in just a tiny bit bigger battery



Not full, but high-ish. Think 75% or so. And that's 2 hours when the battery warning hits, so probably 2 and a half to full drain but that damn warning beep is irritating. 3 hours would be perfect for me, honestly, but I"m not gettin' that.


----------



## willryan042

Also just saw that the MW07 are on sale for $225 at Best Buy (normally $300).

https://www.bestbuy.com/site/master...eadphones-matte-black/6296501.p?skuId=6296501


----------



## firewatersun

SomeGuyDude said:


> Not full, but high-ish. Think 75% or so. And that's 2 hours when the battery warning hits, so probably 2 and a half to full drain but that damn warning beep is irritating. 3 hours would be perfect for me, honestly, but I"m not gettin' that.




Damn, that's really disappointing, 75% volume isn't that bad, and having a warning beep the whole last bit would wreck my head. Not sure why we can't have an extra 2-3 grams heavier earbuds for a couple more hours playtime. MW07 seemed like the perfect earbuds aside from that.

Thanks for the reply!

Looks like it's the Sennheiser TW for me then, since the ATH-CKR7TW seem to have delay issues.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

firewatersun said:


> Damn, that's really disappointing, 75% volume isn't that bad, and having a warning beep the whole last bit would wreck my head. Not sure why we can't have an extra 2-3 grams heavier earbuds for a couple more hours playtime. MW07 seemed like the perfect earbuds aside from that.
> 
> Thanks for the reply!
> 
> Looks like it's the Sennheiser TW for me then, since the ATH-CKR7TW seem to have delay issues.



I will say the charge time is _insane_ with them, though. Last time it happened I popped them in the case, took a quick bathroom break, and ten minutes later they were back at 60% (actually 80% but they dropped back to 60 after a few minutes). So they seem really good for general use, but that 2.5hr in one stretch thing is a big irritation.

Like you, I'm waiting for the Senns.


----------



## webvan

chinmie said:


> i tested the Sony WF SP900 briefly at the sony center today, i have to say i like it. nice Vshaped sound but the mids are not too recessed and still clear. bigger bass than the WF1000X. it doesn't have ANC, but from the short time i tried it the connection is good even with ambient sound on


Interesting, thanks for sharing. 
Have they updated the design compared to the 700? The ANC won't be missed! Did the people at the center have any comments to make.?


----------



## clerkpalmer

kiwikozo said:


> RHA CL2 planars look very interesting. I love my Oppo PM-2s so I'm tempted to give them a try.



I can’t wait until these start showing up used. 500 se


willryan042 said:


> Also just saw that the MW07 are on sale for $225 at Best Buy (normally $300).
> 
> https://www.bestbuy.com/site/master...eadphones-matte-black/6296501.p?skuId=6296501



Wow. Black only but still. That’s a deep discount there.


----------



## webvan

Hyperfluxe said:


> Looks like the JEA 65t's are going for as low as $125 CAD this week according to RFD forums, that's 1/3 the price of the Momentums. I think I'll pull the trigger on the 65t's then, hope the bass isn't too lacking!


It's not lacking with a bit of EQuing in the app. They lack the "clarity" of the WF1000-x though but that shouldn't be an issue for gym use or general use when you're out and about. The far superior HearThrough (a double tap and you can activate it and stop music at the same time) is very handy too.


----------



## chinmie

korefuji said:


> Thanks for the brief, do you know when the release date is in europe? I haven't seen any reviews of them yet.



i don't know , you might have more info on the Sony Europe site? i live in Indonesia, and the list price is about 274 usd (converted from my currency)


----------



## chinmie

webvan said:


> Interesting, thanks for sharing.
> Have they updated the design compared to the 700? The ANC won't be missed! Did the people at the center have any comments to make.?



i didn't test the sp700, but the 900 is about the size of the WF1000X. I didn't buy it yet as I'm now content with my earin, sony and jabra (and a pamu scroll incoming). 

if i don't have them i would surely buy it. the form factor, sq, and the additional onboard memory and waterproofing are great, even though the battery is mediocre compared to the competition


----------



## webvan

ok thanks.
The WF-SP900 are available on Amazon France and there is some feedback over there mostly by some "members of the testers club" https://www.amazon.fr/Sony-WF-SP900-Ecouteurs-étanche-Bluetooth/dp/B07GFL5YCT - mostly positive although  some complain about the confusing interface and low volume with the swimming tips. There aren't any comments on the fact that they use BA drivers. No comments on whether they're better at providing hearthrough and mic quality than the 1000/700 either. Dunno...it doesn't seem like they're going to be much of an upgrade to what's available out there, unless you're a swimmer of course !


----------



## clerkpalmer

webvan said:


> ok thanks.
> The WF-SP900 are available on Amazon France and there is some feedback over there mostly by some "members of the testers club" https://www.amazon.fr/Sony-WF-SP900-Ecouteurs-étanche-Bluetooth/dp/B07GFL5YCT - mostly positive although  some complain about the confusing interface and low volume with the swimming tips. There aren't any comments on the fact that they use BA drivers. No comments on whether they're better at providing hearthrough and mic quality than the 1000/700 either. Dunno...it doesn't seem like they're going to be much of an upgrade to what's available out there, unless you're a swimmer of course !



For those in the US it’s not even clear these are coming? I agree it doesn’t really look like an upgrade from the 700n at least for my purposes.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

clerkpalmer said:


> For those in the US it’s not even clear these are coming? I agree it doesn’t really look like an upgrade from the 700n at least for my purposes.



Aside from switching the DD for a BA, it seems like the main thing about the 900 is that they're fully waterproof. Nothing I read indicated it was an "upgrade" in any sense beyond making a version of the 700 that swimmers could use.


----------



## korefuji (Nov 18, 2018)

anyone here tried the Optoma NuForce BeFree 8 (what a mouthful!) https://www.amazon.co.uk/Optoma-NuForce-Wireless-Bluetooth-Headphones-Black/dp/B0779F6NQG/ I'm looking at them, and they seem ok? idk, thoughts, feedback welcome

Supports AAc/aptX/aptXLL


----------



## dweaver

The new Sony WF SP900 look interesting but a single BA may limit their audio ability. But their ability to go 6 hours using the built 4GB of memory might help you exercise guys.

I decided to go a different direction rather than buying more TWS and ordered the ES100. I will keep watching the thread for more info on these new models but until some of these shortcomings are overcome I am going to just live with my 700N's.


----------



## god-bluff

It does appear to be a consensus that people who have tried various totally wireless earphones including Sony come to the conclusion that Sony sound the best. Please correct me if u am wrong but I can't remember seeing 'X sounds better than the WF-1000X' 

My advice is to, like me, go straight for those if sound quality is your priority (with a generous dose of functionality whilst not perfect) and not waste your time and money with inferior alternatives and avoid disappointment 

They are a Headfi type of wireless solution IMHO. Utterly amazing technology to my old ears.


----------



## plisandro

Anyone knows if this is the same Auvio that used to sell in Radioshack? https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/motion-plus-earbuds-perfect-fit-better-sound/x/19631720#/

I'm torn on pulling the plug on Havit G1Ws or waiting out a tad longer. The Havits have reportedly great sound and Qi charging, which is a dealbreaker for me, but the limited feature set and the bulky charging case is putting me off.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

god-bluff said:


> It does appear to be a consensus that people who have tried various totally wireless earphones including Sony come to the conclusion that Sony sound the best. Please correct me if u am wrong but I can't remember seeing 'X sounds better than the WF-1000X'
> 
> My advice is to, like me, go straight for those if sound quality is your priority (with a generous dose of functionality whilst not perfect) and not waste your time and money with inferior alternatives and avoid disappointment
> 
> They are a Headfi type of wireless solution IMHO. Utterly amazing technology to my old ears.



MW07 absolutely sounds better, but they're an extra $100 and the battery life is a bit hazy.


----------



## nc8000

plisandro said:


> Anyone knows if this is the same Auvio that used to sell in Radioshack? https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/motion-plus-earbuds-perfect-fit-better-sound/x/19631720#/
> 
> I'm torn on pulling the plug on Havit G1Ws or waiting out a tad longer. The Havits have reportedly great sound and Qi charging, which is a dealbreaker for me, but the limited feature set and the bulky charging case is putting me off.



The G1 charging case isn’t that bulky, all in all it is smaller than the E8 case but different proportions


----------



## plisandro

nc8000 said:


> The G1 charging case isn’t that bulky, all in all it is smaller than the E8 case but different proportions



Is it something that you can comfortably carry in a pocket though? I like wider-but-slimmer case designs for this very reason - the G1 looks way boxier.


----------



## nc8000

plisandro said:


> Is it something that you can comfortably carry in a pocket though? I like wider-but-slimmer case designs for this very reason - the G1 looks way boxier.



Fits fine in my pocket. It’s shorter and slightly narrower but exactly same thickness as the E8 case


----------



## plisandro

nc8000 said:


> Fits fine in my pocket. It’s shorter and slightly narrower but exactly same thickness as the E8 case



Nice, thanks for the comparison pic! Tough choice...


----------



## webvan

SomeGuyDude said:


> MW07 absolutely sounds better, but they're an extra $100 and the battery life is a bit hazy.



Were you able to compare both side by side ?


----------



## god-bluff (Nov 18, 2018)

SomeGuyDude said:


> MW07 absolutely sounds better, but they're an extra $100 and the battery life is a bit hazy.


Well that is a first! They must be exceptional indeed. Beyond my limited imagination (and hearing?!!?!) 

PS The Master and Dynamic did get a very positive review in Hifi Choice last month so you may well be right


----------



## chinmie

SomeGuyDude said:


> MW07 absolutely sounds better, but they're an extra $100 and the battery life is a bit hazy.



compared to the WF1000X?


----------



## clerkpalmer

chinmie said:


> compared to the WF1000X?


Yes as good as the Sony sound the mw07 is a noticeable upgrade in sq. And I like both products very much.


----------



## webvan

How so?


----------



## n20nine

Just got a reply from Sennheiser Customer Support saying that pre-orders will be release by end of this week....


----------



## SomeGuyDude

I'm just keeping an eye on Best Buy, but more importantly real-world reviews concerning battery life. If they can get 3hr of actual use I'll snag 'em.


----------



## n20nine

So..I just got an email from Digital River (manages Sennheiser's online store) saying that the pre-order dates have changed to '19 Nov 18' - today. Some fellas on Twitter are saying their credit cards have been charged. Fingers crossed.


----------



## korefuji (Nov 19, 2018)

I didn't get an email, but maybe because I cancelled my preorder, I did get an email from sennheiser regarding the release:

Thank you for your email. Some retailers should receive stock of this item over the next 2 weeks, I believe some retailers will have the item available from the 21st of November. Keep an eye on John Lewis stores as I believe they will be one of the first to receive stock. This info should not be taken as fact, but is a gauge of the availability of the product.

The information and dates provided are an estimate and can change due to retailer logistics, stock and other variables. I am sorry I do not have an exact date of availability, this has not yet been made public.

Really hoping they're good, the hype has been


----------



## webreaper

For those who are ordering, really looking forward to hearing your feedback on the Senns. My Jabra 65Ts are waiting at home for me, but handily Amazon have got their extended Christmas return window open - so they can be returned any time up until 31-Jan. Which means that any time between now and Jan if I hear that the Senns are amazing, have brilliant battery life  and sound out of this world (and are worth the extra £100) I can order them instead.


----------



## n20nine

First impressions from Forbes: https://www.forbes.com/sites/marksp...eless-earbuds-but-it-was-well-worth-the-wait/


----------



## chrisbriton (Nov 19, 2018)

The senns look really interesting and considering returning my 65t’s and getting these. Is an ipx4 rating splash proof rating enough for some very sweaty workouts?

Would anyone know what the returns policy is for items like this that have been used?
I bought the 65t’s from Argos, I’m still within the return time window but it says items need to be in resellable condition. Anyone have any experience with this?
Thanks


----------



## n20nine

chrisbriton said:


> The senns look really interesting and considering returning my 65t’s and getting these. Is an ipx4 rating splash proof rating enough for some very sweaty workouts?
> 
> Would anyone know what the returns policy is for items like this that have been used?
> I bought the 65t’s from Argos, I’m still within the return time window but it says items need to be in resellable condition. Anyone have any experience with this?
> Thanks


https://phiaton.com/ipx4-water-resistance-what-it-means-and-why-you-need-it/

Should be okay I think...


----------



## SomeGuyDude

Hmm. Forbes says 4 hours at a charge. That's definitely worth a gander.


----------



## clerkpalmer

chrisbriton said:


> The senns look really interesting and considering returning my 65t’s and getting these. Is an ipx4 rating splash proof rating enough for some very sweaty workouts?
> 
> Would anyone know what the returns policy is for items like this that have been used?
> I bought the 65t’s from Argos, I’m still within the return time window but it says items need to be in resellable condition. Anyone have any experience with this?
> Thanks



Tough call here. I probably would not use the senns at 300 for “very sweaty workouts”. I sweat a lot and I’ve killed many a bt headset with higher rating than 4. Add 300 price tag and I think that’s a recipe for disaster.


----------



## nc8000

For sweaty workout I would say the Havit G1 with BT5, IPX5 and around 4 hours per charge for $60 would be hard to beat if you like the sound sig


----------



## Rickyearl

chrisbriton said:


> The senns look really interesting and considering returning my 65t’s and getting these. Is an ipx4 rating splash proof rating enough for some very sweaty workouts?
> 
> Would anyone know what the returns policy is for items like this that have been used?
> I bought the 65t’s from Argos, I’m still within the return time window but it says items need to be in resellable condition. Anyone have any experience with this?
> Thanks



The e8s have the same rating (I think) and I won't trust them for working out - too expensive and too easy to lose.  I plunked down $50 on the Soundcore Liberty Lites for workouts - they get my recommendation.  Battery life is a little lacking, and the sound doesn't measure up to the e8 (or likely the Senns), but they sound pretty decent (a little bassy and bloated for my tastes but plenty good for a gym environment), fit really well, and if one gets damaged or lost I'm only out $50 max.  So far so good since late June.


----------



## nc8000

Rickyearl said:


> The e8s have the same rating (I think) and I won't trust them for working out - too expensive and too easy to lose.  I plunked down $50 on the Soundcore Liberty Lites for workouts - they get my recommendation.  Battery life is a little lacking, and the sound doesn't measure up to the e8 (or likely the Senns), but they sound pretty decent (a little bassy and bloated for my tastes but plenty good for a gym environment), fit really well, and if one gets damaged or lost I'm only out $50 max.  So far so good since late June.



As far as I'm aware the E8 has no official rating, they just describe it as splash resistent


----------



## MyrenJobrah

n20nine said:


> First impressions from Forbes: https://www.forbes.com/sites/marksp...eless-earbuds-but-it-was-well-worth-the-wait/



This review has me questioning whether I should bother picking up the campfire vega. If the bass on these really is as good as they say (comparable to my IE80s which stopped working), I may just go with these for all purposes..


----------



## clerkpalmer

MyrenJobrah said:


> This review has me questioning whether I should bother picking up the campfire vega. If the bass on these really is as good as they say (comparable to my IE80s which stopped working), I may just go with these for all purposes..



Seems like an unlikely cross shop... I would be shocked if the senns could even remotely compete with high end wired iems.


----------



## webvan (Nov 19, 2018)

SomeGuyDude said:


> Hmm. Forbes says 4 hours at a charge. That's definitely worth a gander.


It's not like he tested it though. .."up to 4 hours" is per the specs and at one point in the "review" he says you're OK if you only plan on using them for 3 hours. Honestly this isn't much more than a glorified "walk-through" article where he's careful not to provide any specific comparisons, either to avoid any "issues" or because he doesn't have any on hand.

No word on whether there is an efficient Hear-Through mode either, this is really a must for an all-rounder. When it's absent or doesn't work well (like on the Sonys) you'll be pulling them out each time you have to interact with your environment and that's a chore.


----------



## willryan042

My MW07 are eligible to be returned until Jan 12th. I'm hoping I can get my hands on the Sennheiser's before then to decide who wins.


----------



## god-bluff (Nov 21, 2018)

_


----------



## jeffri

I just tried Pamu Scroll and can say that I'm pleasantly surprised by the sound out of it. Too bad I noticed delay when watching video and could hear some grain (maybe SBC compression artifact). The signature is pleasing, warm and smooth, boosted bass but just up until a point before it feels bloated. High is a bit roll-off I think.

Now I kinda have high hope for true wireless. The ATH can't come soon enough...


----------



## chrisbriton (Nov 19, 2018)

Thanks for the helpful comments, for me the true value of these truly wireless buds is for excerise (also a low profile and secure fit that’s not easily knocked out of the ear) If IPX4 is borderline I’m probably best sticking to the 65T’s for now.  Pleasantly surprised with their SQ after mixed reviews. They could just do with a bit more grunt... just a bit.
Hopefully some exercise focused wireless buds will emerge soon that don’t compromise in sound quality. I suppose senheiser went down the sporty route with their wired BT workout headphones so maybe they will follow suite with their true wireless range


----------



## korefuji

the potential deal breaker for me with the senn's is, no quick charge? I mean really? 1.5 hours for a charge? Seems a bit of a missed opportunity, though Im sure they will sell loads regardless.


----------



## BobJS

So, is there a general consensus of which currently released product of true wireless has the best audio quality?  Is it the MW07?  I have the Jabra active elite 65t and it has exceeded my expectations and is certainly acceptable for exercise.

But, searching for the best audio quality, MW07?  Should I grab the Best Buy deal @ $225?


----------



## clerkpalmer

BobJS said:


> So, is there a general consensus of which currently released product of true wireless has the best audio quality?  Is it the MW07?  I have the Jabra active elite 65t and it has exceeded my expectations and is certainly acceptable for exercise.
> 
> But, searching for the best audio quality, MW07?  Should I grab the Best Buy deal @ $225?



Yes or wait for the senns at 300. Or get both and return the one you like less.


----------



## webvan

clerkpalmer said:


> Tough call here. I probably would not use the senns at 300 for “very sweaty workouts”. I sweat a lot and I’ve killed many a bt headset with higher rating than 4. Add 300 price tag and I think that’s a recipe for disaster.



Yeah, not to mention the "thump" each time your foot strikes the ground with tightly sealed IEMs. I've given up on TWS for running, I just use the Plantronics BackBeat FIT https://www.rtings.com/headphones/reviews/plantronics/backbeat-fit - zero thumping, sweat cannot get to them and you stay alert to your environment, and the SQ is interesting with a very wide soundstage (open back helps of course).


----------



## albau (Nov 19, 2018)

I just thought that mw07 for $224 at BestBuy is hard to pass, especially considering prolonged return period. At least at that price it's not that much more than my 65t. But curious to see if SQ improvement with mw07 justifies supposedly miserable battery life and lack of an app for fw updates and eq. Guys on this forum who have mw07 in real use are all seem to be grossly disappointed with battery, while most "pro" reviewers seem to parrot 3.5 hour spec. On the other hand quite a few user reviews at BestBuy and Amazon confirm 3.5 hours. Yes, I know about grain of salt . Anyway I'll be picking mw07 in a few hours. Will report back how they stack up against 65t.


----------



## Rickyearl

albau said:


> I just thought that mw07 for $224 at BestBuy is hard to pass, especially considering prolonged return period. At least at that price it's not that much more than my 65t. But curious to see if SQ improvement with mw07 justifies supposedly miserable battery life and lack of an app for fw updates and eq. Guys on this forum who have mw07 in real use are all seem to be grossly disappointed with battery, while most "pro" reviewers seem to parrot 3.5 hour spec. On the other hand quite a few user reviews at BestBuy and Amazon confirm 3.5 hours. Yes, I know about grain of salt . Anyway I'll be picking mw07 in a few hours. Will report back how they stack up against 65t.



The $224 is for black only, right?


----------



## albau

Rickyearl said:


> The $224 is for black only, right?


Yes, but hope it doesn't sound worse


----------



## firewatersun (Nov 19, 2018)

jeffri said:


> I just tried Pamu Scroll and can say that I'm pleasantly surprised by the sound out of it. Too bad I noticed delay when watching video and could hear some grain (maybe SBC compression artifact). The signature is pleasing, warm and smooth, boosted bass but just up until a point before it feels bloated. High is a bit roll-off I think.
> 
> Now I kinda have high hope for true wireless. The ATH can't come soon enough...



Word of warning, amazon Japan early reviews are saying there is up to 0.5 sec video lag - ATH was my choice as well until I read about it (just Google Translated the amazon page)



albau said:


> I just thought that mw07 for $224 at BestBuy is hard to pass, especially considering prolonged return period. At least at that price it's not that much more than my 65t. But curious to see if SQ improvement with mw07 justifies supposedly miserable battery life and lack of an app for fw updates and eq. Guys on this forum who have mw07 in real use are all seem to be grossly disappointed with battery, while most "pro" reviewers seem to parrot 3.5 hour spec. On the other hand quite a few user reviews at BestBuy and Amazon confirm 3.5 hours. Yes, I know about grain of salt . Anyway I'll be picking mw07 in a few hours. Will report back how they stack up against 65t.



Please do update with battery life info! I really really like the MW07, but have the Sennheisers preordered as I can't deal with less than 2.5 hours as being reported by some. Can give up 30 mins over the Senns if it's actually only that!


----------



## webreaper

firewatersun said:


> Word of warning, amazon Japan early reviews are saying there is up to 0.5 sec video lag



All BT headsets have some lag. Some apps deal with it better than others. Youtube is notoriously bad. Netflix and Plex don't have any issues, in my experience.


----------



## BobJS

albau said:


> I just thought that mw07 for $224 at BestBuy is hard to pass, especially considering prolonged return period. At least at that price it's not that much more than my 65t. But curious to see if SQ improvement with mw07 justifies supposedly miserable battery life and lack of an app for fw updates and eq. Guys on this forum who have mw07 in real use are all seem to be grossly disappointed with battery, while most "pro" reviewers seem to parrot 3.5 hour spec. On the other hand quite a few user reviews at BestBuy and Amazon confirm 3.5 hours. Yes, I know about grain of salt . Anyway I'll be picking mw07 in a few hours. Will report back how they stack up against 65t.




That's what I did, only they're shipping them to me.   Looking forward to your feedback.


----------



## jeffri

firewatersun said:


> Word of warning, amazon Japan early reviews are saying there is up to 0.5 sec video lag - ATH was my choice as well until I read about it (just Google Translated the amazon page)



Yeah, it appears to be disappointing in that aspect.


----------



## kiwikozo (Nov 19, 2018)

So Amazon sent my RHA true connect to the wrong dispatch warehouse. They didn't arrive today and will arrive by Thursday. Amazon is by far my favorite retailer - this rarely happens.

Sennheiser also told me the pre-order release date was changed to 19/11/2018.

My credit card was also charged this evening but I have no dispatch email.

I'm going to try out the Sennheiser, and hope there is some form of quick 15m charge or at least 30m charge to 50%. I really hope the battery life is actually beyond 3 hours for non-deafening listening levels. I don't care for ambient noise hearing, I want them to be isolating. Maybe turning this feature off will help prolong battery life further.

Will also try out the RHA when they arrive and compare + return one of the pairs.


----------



## firewatersun (Nov 19, 2018)

webreaper said:


> All BT headsets have some lag. Some apps deal with it better than others. Youtube is notoriously bad. Netflix and Plex don't have any issues, in my experience.



0.5 sec is horrendous. In my experience of TW headphones, those that use a master/slave connection have very little lag/as much lag as any normal Bluetooth headset e.g. little to imperceptible.

The Senns, MW07 (haven't tried) Beoplay E8, Bragi Headphone (have tried) all have NFMI / similar master-slave connections and do not have audio delay mentioned regularly in reviews. Onkyo, WF-1000X, and now the ATH do not use this and have audio delay problems mentioned regularly.

0.5 second lag behind video (in the review they mention YT, Netflix) is unacceptable unless you never use them for video.

I've used Bluetooth headsets for a long time. Some do have audio delays that are more noticeable, and with the technology as mature as it is, that delay is no longer acceptable. You can buy cheap bluetooth adapters for 15 dollars, that never mind their sq, do not have noticeable delay between audio and video.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

clerkpalmer said:


> Seems like an unlikely cross shop... I would be shocked if the senns could even remotely compete with high end wired iems.



Talking about the bass alone being comparable to the IE80? I don't see why not. Everything else obviously isn't a contest but I think there's every reason to think they could be up there with the bass.


----------



## alee

My Sennheisers have shipped. ETA, Friday. Hope it was worth the wait!


----------



## voon

I like my Optoma Nuforce BE sport3 .. they sound decent for what they are (can be worn without that rubber needle thing of course).


----------



## SomeGuyDude

The mw07 is $75 off at Best Buy right now. Battery life might be tough but that's a great price for these.


----------



## firewatersun

alee said:


> My Sennheisers have shipped. ETA, Friday. Hope it was worth the wait!



Can I ask if you're in UK/EU? I had preordered too, but no confirmation of shipping yet


----------



## alee

firewatersun said:


> Can I ask if you're in UK/EU? I had preordered too, but no confirmation of shipping yet


USA, New York


----------



## n20nine

firewatersun said:


> Can I ask if you're in UK/EU? I had preordered too, but no confirmation of shipping yet



Same here, in the UK


----------



## firewatersun

Darn, I thought they might have shipped here already and I just didn't get the email yet. Thanks for the heads up!

On the plus side, here's a Gizmodo review that suggests Sennheiser TWs are better or at least equal to the MW07s.


----------



## clerkpalmer

firewatersun said:


> Darn, I thought they might have shipped here already and I just didn't get the email yet. Thanks for the heads up!
> 
> On the plus side, here's a Gizmodo review that suggests Sennheiser TWs are better or at least equal to the MW07s.


Nice find. Love the extensive comparison to the mw07. I am worried about the fit with no fins or stabilizers. The mw07 fins work like a charm. I'm one of those who have issues with iems staying put. Pretty much a crapshoot.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

firewatersun said:


> Darn, I thought they might have shipped here already and I just didn't get the email yet. Thanks for the heads up!
> 
> On the plus side, here's a Gizmodo review that suggests Sennheiser TWs are better or at least equal to the MW07s.



Hmm. They're saying the senn is less bassy than the mw07, which isn't good for me. I like the meaty power of the mw07 a lot. Given the $75 discount I'm not confident that the extra battery is worth it if it means a weaker sound.


----------



## n20nine

firewatersun said:


> Darn, I thought they might have shipped here already and I just didn't get the email yet. Thanks for the heads up!
> 
> On the plus side, here's a Gizmodo review that suggests Sennheiser TWs are better or at least equal to the MW07s.



Thanks for sharing. The Gizmodo review has me worried as I mentioned that the buds drop out of some people's ears. 
On another note, I just got my shipping notification


----------



## firewatersun

n20nine said:


> Thanks for sharing. The Gizmodo review has me worried as I mentioned that the buds drop out of some people's ears.
> On another note, I just got my shipping notification



Was literally just typing to say I got mine too  ! Will be really interested to try em out - I might get the MW07 to test too and send back whichever I least prefer, and if they both pan out close to specs battery-life wise.


----------



## n20nine

firewatersun said:


> Was literally just typing to say I got mine too  ! Will be really interested to try em out - I might get the MW07 to test too and send back whichever I least prefer, and if they both pan out close to specs battery-life wise.


Hahah, I will admit, I am thinking the same too. For me at the end of the day are three things:

1. Sound Quality
2. Comfort
3. Battery life

Given the M&Ds have bigger drivers, possibly they have better sound. As for the bass-heavy sound, an EQ tweak may help. However, if comfort is bad, I will return them. I used to have the Bose QC35, Sony WH-100XM2 and Bowers & Wilkins PX. The PX had the best sound but returned all due to comfort issues.


----------



## albau (Nov 20, 2018)

SomeGuyDude said:


> The mw07 is $75 off at Best Buy right now. Battery life might be tough but that's a great price for these.


To be precise $239 with NJ tax, black ones.

Picked them up yesterday evening so didn’t have much time to play, but here’re some thoughts vs 65t:

* Fit/Isolation –65t fit instantaneously in my ears with large stock tips and excellent isolation and stability. With mw07 I’m still struggling between various size stock tips and ridged fins. So far I settled on large fins and large tips and this combo stays secure. But when I push the earbuds in, sound changes for the better – fuller, less bright. That’s main indication of bad fit/isolation. I’ll play later today with XL tips and non-stock tips I have lying around.

* SQ – Very preliminary and with fingers pushing mw07 deeper into my ear canals. First I found there’s no need to EQ mw017, while I keep Jabras EQed on a W signature. Funny thing that switching between the two I still enjoy how 65t sound, it’s not like mw07 totally destroys them. In fact I grew even more to appreciate 65t for what they are at their price point. But mw07, man, oh man! Never thought that single dynamic driver TW will come so close in sound signature to my beloved wired Westone 4 with their quadruple BAs. What strikes immediately vs Jabras is clarity and detail, especially in highs, and a much wider, and I would say deeper, soundstage. Jabars still don’t sound muddy to me, but mw07 are just so much cleaner. Then there’s balance and tuning. Jabras have relatively distant mids/vocals and a bit too much recessed highs, so I have to bump both in EQ. No such thing with mw07, everything is in almost perfect proportion and doesn’t jump on one another. Almost… If anything on some tracks treble may come up too hot and there’s occasional sibilance in female vocals. At first listen bass seemed comparable between both but then I realized that mw07 bass is more nuanced and detailed and doesn’t bleed into mids. But again only stresses how 65t bass is decent to begin with. For general sound signature I would say that relative to each other mw07 seems more “urgent” while 65t sound warmer and more laid back. Maybe even more enjoyable on certain types of energetic music you listen at the gym to pump yourself up like Techno, Death Metal and so on. But mw07 especially shine on complex, operatic and symphonic types, not needlessly just classical music, but something like even Metallica, Muze, etc. Vocal music, whether jazz or pop, is substantially better rendered on mw07. As far as I can remember E8 they sound overall closer to mw07 league but more “weak”, less dynamic and powerful.

* Looks/Quality – mw07 definitely look and feel richer, made of more solid materials. That applies to both buds themselves, no creeks on mw07, and obviously to the charging cases – polished metal vs dour plastic. Mw07 case is a little bigger and heavier though. Still I’d say it’s on a smaller side and easily goes into front pant pockets. But if you leave possibility of returning mw07 keep the case in supplied pouch. It’s a magnet for scratches and fingerprints. In the looks department I surprisingly liked black color of mw07, seems understated in a classy way. Surprisingly, at least to me, flat mw07 look less bulky when wearing them than 65t which stick out like some spherical blobs.

* Pairing/Connection – Pairing process is a huge win for mw07. No pushing on both buttons like with Jabras, just take both buds out of the case and see “MW07” appear in you phone’s BT device scan. My experience is with Galaxy S8 and with iPad Air (2nd gen), both running latest available versions of Android and iOS. Where mw07 are worse is that they remember connection to only one device at a time. Jabra stores two. That makes it annoying to switch between devices with mw07. I didn’t have chance to test well mw07 connection but in a short time at the gym and at home I didn’t have any drops. 

* Interface/Ergonomics – I like real buttons on both. Especially fond of dedicated volume rockers. Probably because mw07 locates buttons on top it’s less prone to pushing them by mistake as with 65t. On the other hand mw07 buttons are smaller and harder to find. I also think that 65t implemented back/skip track better. Double/Triple button push on mw07 is more fiddly. I like that mw07 case has three light that show you the charge of both buds and the case itself without opening it. On the other hand  Jabra buds confirm with lights their status in the case. With mw07 there’s no such feedback until you close the lid. Both cases don’t have magnetic guides to insert the buds, but it’s harder to misalign mw07 buds so they won’t charge like I had several times with Jabras. USB-C on mw07 case is also welcome.

* Battery – Still didn’t have a chance to put mw07 through the paces. With 65t I get 4+ hours easily. Lack of mw07 is annoying and not only because of no way to update fw. On Android it’s just impossible to see charge level of buds. You have to put them back into the case, close the lid and even then simply get a crude green-yellow-red indication.

* Misc - Volume wise both seem comparable, with 65t going a little louder. On pause both sound clean, no hiss, and I don’t hear any misbalance between left and right.

So far - if I’ll find proper fit/isolation combo and will confirm that it’s possible to get 3 hours on a charge I’ll keep mw07. Otherwise they are going back and I’m waiting for real impressions of Senns  or just simply staying with 65t which I still love dearly.


----------



## korefuji (Nov 20, 2018)

I don't think I'm going to bother with the Sennheiser anymore, I think i might just go back to Jabra Elite Active 65t. None of the earbuds I've had so far have warranted the price tags, even the MW07 at less than 3 hours usage, feel over priced. I am not getting the price equivalent of better sound at that price, compared to say the 65tActives.

They should tide me over until the release of better TWEs. I just hope I find some way of getting better fit with the Elite65ts

EDIT: can any one recommend replacement tips for the Jabra Elite Active 65t - the default ones make them feel difficult in the ears. I was thinking spinfit but they don't have a clear guide, I have the truly wireless comply but they're kinda meh


----------



## Burakk

Hey guys, I’ve been reading this thread for a couple of days. Sorry in advance if it asked before. Is there anybody to give an idea for call quality of tw products. I’ve tried 65t, e8 and elite sport non of them satisfied particularly in noisy conditions. I received background noise complains from the opponent. The most satisfied tw is AirPods so far in term of call quality. Thanks!


----------



## webvan (Nov 20, 2018)

korefuji said:


> I don't think I'm going to bother with the Sennheiser anymore, I think i might just go back to Jabra Elite Active 65t. None of the earbuds I've had so far have warranted the price tags, even the MW07 at less than 3 hours usage, feel over priced. I am not getting the price equivalent of better sound at that price, compared to say the 65tActives.
> 
> They should tide me over until the release of better TWEs. I just hope I find some way of getting better fit with the Elite65ts
> 
> EDIT: can any one recommend replacement tips for the Jabra Elite Active 65t - the default ones make them feel difficult in the ears. I was thinking spinfit but they don't have a clear guide, I have the truly wireless comply but they're kinda meh




It's hard to find tips that will fit the earbuds AND the case. The Comply Tsx-200 for instance work but badly muddy the sound in my case.

There was a tip posted here at the end of October to add a wide tip behind the official tip to improve the fit. I've tried and I'm not totally convinced. I wish Jabra provided XL tips, my right ear needs that


----------



## SomeGuyDude

I feel so deprived, since I've never had a Jabra set that worked properly lol. If only...


----------



## albau

SomeGuyDude said:


> I feel so deprived, since I've never had a Jabra set that worked properly lol. If only...


Don't be. Jabras are good only as a package - they check most marks, even if each mark isn't the best. But it really funny, I had two pairs of 65t elites and none of them had anything close to what your copies were exhibiting. No matter how I tried to find hiss and lack of left-right balance. That's not to say that their silence is super clean, but it's not hiss, just a little of white noise above audible threshold. At least on my pairs.


----------



## webvan

korefuji said:


> I don't think I'm going to bother with the Sennheiser anymore, I think i might just go back to Jabra Elite Active 65t. None of the earbuds I've had so far have warranted the price tags, even the MW07 at less than 3 hours usage, feel over priced. I am not getting the price equivalent of better sound at that price, compared to say the 65tActives.
> 
> They should tide me over until the release of better TWEs. I just hope I find some way of getting better fit with the Elite65ts
> 
> EDIT: can any one recommend replacement tips for the Jabra Elite Active 65t - the default ones make them feel difficult in the ears. I was thinking spinfit but they don't have a clear guide, I have the truly wireless comply but they're kinda meh





firewatersun said:


> Darn, I thought they might have shipped here already and I just didn't get the email yet. Thanks for the heads up!
> 
> On the plus side, here's a Gizmodo review that suggests Sennheiser TWs are better or at least equal to the MW07s.


Thanks for the link, another "review" to be taken with a grain of salt it seems (he's the guy who raved about how great the NC on the WF-1000x was last year...) and again, battery life not tested. Hopefully we'll have some more useful user feedback soon !

I stand corrected though, there IS a "transparent mode", the article says it's activated via the app, no word on whether there is a tap combo to that as well like on the Jabras (where you can choose to stop music automatically when you activate it), a must !

EDIT - yes, it works the same as on the Jabras per the manual on page 19 https://assets.sennheiser.com/global-downloads/file/11230/M3IETW_Manual_EN.pdf - good !


----------



## D1scoDav

What are the chances of someone making an adaptor to plug in to our current IEM’s? Say an MMCX part that plugs in on both sides and converts a wired set in to true wireless. Maybe that would be too much to ask for, but it would be awesome.


----------



## clerkpalmer

Scroll up a few pages. It already exists.


D1scoDav said:


> What are the chances of someone making an adaptor to plug in to our current IEM’s? Say an MMCX part that plugs in on both sides and converts a wired set in to true wireless. Maybe that would be too much to ask for, but it would be awesome.


----------



## nc8000

D1scoDav said:


> What are the chances of someone making an adaptor to plug in to our current IEM’s? Say an MMCX part that plugs in on both sides and converts a wired set in to true wireless. Maybe that would be too much to ask for, but it would be awesome.



Already exist and is mentioned and pictured earlier in this thread


----------



## D1scoDav

Haha, no way!, i was all up to date with this thread a couple of months ago, then stopped reading. Can’t believe this. Thanks guys!!!


----------



## D1scoDav

Anyone know which page i should be looking for.....?


----------



## webreaper

Search for PlusSound BT. I had one for my IE80s until I lost it recently. It was Brill.


----------



## korefuji

webreaper said:


> Search for PlusSound BT. I had one for my IE80s until I lost it recently. It was Brill.


better than true wireless buds?


----------



## clerkpalmer

korefuji said:


> better than true wireless buds?


I don't think anyone here has used the true wireless version yet.


----------



## webreaper

For me, yes, because I had custom sleeves on my IE80s, so they fitted wonderfully. 

I've had Jabra 65Ts for a day, and impressed so far. Not quite as good sq as the IE80s, but pretty close. No hiss, perfect balance and a good sound profile. The convenience of no wires at all is awesome. 

That said, I've pre-ordered the Momentum TWs, as I love the Senn sound profile, so if they're anywhere near as good as my IE80s, they'll be awesome. Main question.is the battery life.


----------



## korefuji

webreaper said:


> For me, yes, because I had custom sleeves on my IE80s, so they fitted wonderfully.
> 
> I've had Jabra 65Ts for a day, and impressed so far. Not quite as good sq as the IE80s, but pretty close. No hiss, perfect balance and a good sound profile. The convenience of no wires at all is awesome.
> 
> That said, I've pre-ordered the Momentum TWs, as I love the Senn sound profile, so if they're anywhere near as good as my IE80s, they'll be awesome. Main question.is the battery life.



good luck guys, I just ordered the jabras again, I'll stick with them for now. I'm sure they will last at least a year or more, and by then I hope better twe's are out by then. 

best of luck, but i'll keep reading the thread for interest


----------



## D1scoDav (Nov 20, 2018)

Are we talking these?


----------



## SomeGuyDude

albau said:


> Don't be. Jabras are good only as a package - they check most marks, even if each mark isn't the best. But it really funny, I had two pairs of 65t elites and none of them had anything close to what your copies were exhibiting. No matter how I tried to find hiss and lack of left-right balance. That's not to say that their silence is super clean, but it's not hiss, just a little of white noise above audible threshold. At least on my pairs.



I'm really, really wondering if it was just Samsungs and the firmware update. I can't even tell you how tempted I am to pick up another pair since I have a pixel now and just give it another go.


----------



## webreaper

Worth bearing in mind: when I first tried the Jabras yesterday they had terrible hiss - so much so I nearly put them back in the box and returned them. 

After updating the firmware, any hiss (if there is any) is undetectable. This is with an S7 Edge.


----------



## korefuji

really strange, with my iphone x, even with default firmware it arrived with, i had 0 hiss, just...a bad fit for my ears, but i blame my ears, no the earbuds


----------



## SomeGuyDude

webreaper said:


> Worth bearing in mind: when I first tried the Jabras yesterday they had terrible hiss - so much so I nearly put them back in the box and returned them.
> 
> After updating the firmware, any hiss (if there is any) is undetectable. This is with an S7 Edge.



I'm hanging tight for the Senns, though. If they've got the kind of meaty low end the name "Momentum" usually carries, plus 4hr battery life, they're gonna be my winner.


----------



## korefuji

has anyone taken a punt on the samurai buds?


----------



## Fishwater

I've been using my 65t actives every day & have been really pleased with them. For now I'll watch all you other guys experiment with whatever else comes down the pike. While the Jabra's don't really blow me away in any particular area they just work great for me overall. They connect instantly without fuss, remember both my device's & the more I'm using them unless they are at max volume I'm not noticing the imbalance I noticed right out of the package. Just a really solid product all the way around IMO.


----------



## korefuji

Fishwater said:


> I've been using my 65t actives every day & have been really pleased with them. For now I'll watch all you other guys experiment with whatever else comes down the pike. While the Jabra's don't really blow me away in any particular area they just work great for me overall. They connect instantly without fuss, remember both my device's & the more I'm using them unless they are at max volume I'm not noticing the imbalance I noticed right out of the package. Just a really solid product all the way around IMO.




That's the thing with the Jabra's is if you're after a jack of all trades, but a master of none, then the Jabras are the go to, no fuss option. If you're more picky about what you want then there are other options, but I agree the Jabra's hit all the right boxes in terms of minimal requirements, they just don't blow me away either. I think the trade off's with price to feature ratio,m the Jabra's do really really well imo


----------



## Chrisdu18e

My Senn' arrive thursday. I'm really happy. 
But, I see the policy of cancelation of Sennheiser. We have 30 day to send back but none of the plastic bag should be open. I live in France, so maybe it's different in other countries. But, be carreful if you have this mention.
I've seen in my shipment confirmation's mail. 
If you want, for example, send back the Senn and keep other TW IEM, like MW 07, be careful with the little bags and use other tips.
I don't think we'll send back the Senn, but as only few people has try this TW, we 'll never know....


----------



## korefuji

Chrisdu18e said:


> My Senn' arrive thursday. I'm really happy.
> But, I see the policy of cancelation of Sennheiser. We have 30 day to send back but none of the plastic bag should be open. I live in France, so maybe it's different in other countries. But, be carreful if you have this mention.
> I've seen in my shipment confirmation's mail.
> If you want, for example, send back the Senn and keep other TW IEM, like MW 07, be careful with the little bags and use other tips.
> I don't think we'll send back the Senn, but as only few people has try this TW, we 'll never know....


Grats on the senn's. Please let us know how they turn out, and with a comparison maybe against other TWE's you may have had, or have.

I think that's par for the course when it comes to returns from majority of online dealers. Only amazon, I believe, allows you to open your package, test out the device, and then return within 30 days for a full refund. It's not a surprise they have the majority of consumers clicking on their site.


----------



## kiwikozo (Nov 20, 2018)

RHA True Connect arrived today, Sennheiser Momentum True Wireless arriving on Thurs (UK) I pre-ordered Sep/Oct directly from Sennheiser.


Bit of background - I have tried the Jabra 65T, Sony WF-1000x, and those Anker TW buds.

Device - S8+, Using Poweramp

RHA True connect - 4.45 / 5  because it deserves more than 4.
£150 is a fantastic price if the battery life is around 4 hours.

Samsung doesn't allow you to see bluetooth battery life status so unless there is an app like Sennhsiers I can't see how much battery is remaining. I have only listened to them for about 4 hours total on/off.
The case is fantastic quality, I really like it. USB C and metal / high quality rubber finish. I really like the 3 stage battery indicator on the case - don't think the Senn has this. They also look very sleek as they're stealth black with no apparent logo.

Fit -The silicon buds don't really fit 100% in my ears. I have quite small ears + ear canal. They seem, too short as if they don't go too far in. I personally wouldn't feel 100% confident going for a fast-paced long run, but it's fine for a jog (not that I'm doing either at the moment).
The comply tips supplied fit better but I generally prefer silicone tips. The comply tips would be absolutely fine for a fast-paced run.

Sound - a very apparent U shape, with a surprisingly clean bass. I dislike excess treble / bright headphones, so I turned the treble down slightly in the poweramp EQ. Treble is clean.

Loudness - I listened to the buds at the gym 2-3 steps down from the max. I even tried using the eq amp in poweramp and that made them incredibly loud with no noticeable distortion. They get to a safe level which people should really use as the max to protect their hearing.

Playback buttons - Could have better feedback, no auto pause either but it's easy to press any of the buttons when taking the buds to pause the song.

Sound leakage - very minimal. Nobody can hear you listening to those shameful songs you're embarrassed to be listening to. Sound isolation is also very good especially with the comply tips.

I haven't tried making a call with them yet. I have played a couple of youtube videos and netflix videos, there doesn't appear to be any lag. The connection is strong, I haven't had any dropouts. As soon as you take them out of the case they connect very quickly.

They're well worth the price. A good amount better than the Jabra in terms of clarity and also build quality and a cleaner bass than the Sony WF-1000x.



Now I'm unsure. If the Sennheiser have less than 3 hours of battery life there is little chance I'll keep them due to the lack of fast charging and a shorter battery life.


Pleasantly surprised.


----------



## webvan (Nov 20, 2018)

korefuji said:


> That's the thing with the Jabra's is if you're after a jack of all trades, *but a master of none*, then the Jabras are the go to, no fuss option. If you're more picky about what you want then there are other options, but I agree the Jabra's hit all the right boxes in terms of minimal requirements, they just don't blow me away either. I think the trade off's with price to feature ratio,m the Jabra's do really really well imo



Actually other than SQ it seems to me they're as goodas any other bud out there either in terms of comfort, isolation, battery life, controls, microphone, hearthrough mode.

Other than SQ, which is still miles better than all the cheap clones out there, the other downside is the lack of alternative tip options.


----------



## clerkpalmer (Nov 20, 2018)

korefuji said:


> It's not a surprise they have the majority of consumers clicking on their site.



Until Amazon bans you for life. Lots of horror stories of Amazon banning for too many returns.  I often avoid Amazon for this reason and I'll often eBay stuff at a loss over a return on Amazon. My wife lives on Amazon for household items. If given the choice, she'd probably pick Amazon prime over me.


----------



## korefuji

clerkpalmer said:


> Until Amazon bans you for life. Lots of horror stories of Amazon banninf for too many returns.  I often avoid Amazon for this reason and I'll often eBay stuff at a loss over a return on Amazon. My wife lives on Amazon for household items. If given the choice, she'd probably pick Amazon prime over me.


yeah this is true. I think it's different in uk though and europe, laws protect consumers, but I guess if amazon bans you its at their discretion


----------



## clerkpalmer

D1scoDav said:


> Are we talking these?



Yes


----------



## dweaver

In Canada, almost all stores have a zero return policy on opened headphones and earphones for hygiene reasons. It sucks but I do kinda get it. Amazon might allow returns but if they do I would be very cautious and not abuse it.


----------



## clerkpalmer

dweaver said:


> In Canada, almost all stores have a zero return policy on opened headphones and earphones for hygiene reasons. It sucks but I do kinda get it. Amazon might allow returns but if they do I would be very cautious and not abuse it.



BestBuy too but at least they will warm you. I return things from time to time but sometimes eating a few bucks by selling here or eBay is the better approach. For me it depends on whether I think the product truly is flawed versus whether I bought it knowing the flaws and then decided I just didn't like it. Retailers get crushed on returns so I try my best not to abuse it.


----------



## korefuji

yeah I wasn't suggesting you abuse amazon's return policy, just that they have a better returns policy that most. I mean today I bought the Jabra Active 65t Elites again, but this time i went via amazon warehouse deals, only packaging is damaged, no cosmetic dmg to the earbuds, and i got a £31 discount for it, so it went from 156 to 125, I really couldn't pass it up. Packaging? So what really, as long as ear buds are good, I'm down for those kinda prices. Will clean the buds with alcohol wipes as a precaution though


----------



## chinmie

webvan said:


> Other than SQ, which is still miles better than all the cheap clones out there, the other downside is the lack of alternative tip options.



this. the only downside for the 65t for me (now that imbalance and "painful for long listening" problems seems to disappear for me)

sound wise, the 65t also kinda grow on me. it is a very clean and sterile sound that might come across unexciting.

the bass for instance, even though it is big, doesn't have that projected sound and "kick" that reverberate the ears kind of effect, but on the other hand, because it is not projected, it's like listening to a big speaker on the room, or when i use it inside my helmet, it sounds like car stereo system). 

the treble might be a bit grainy, but considering the battery life, case size, features, ipx rating, and that it's my only TW that can connect to two devices at once, makes it a keeper


----------



## kiwikozo

So the RHA has lasted 4h 15m from full at 80-90% volume. And they charge to 50% in just 15 minutes. When you're not using them the case automatically charges them up and it carries 4x full extra charges. Charging case itself charges in 2 hours from empty.

Pretty impressive and since they're IPX5 they're ideal for the gym.

Call quality is decent, but not anything to write home about. You can hear every movement e.g. if I tap my teeth it would be projected through the mic.


----------



## korefuji

kiwikozo said:


> So the RHA has lasted 4h 15m from full at 80-90% volume. And they charge to 50% in just 15 minutes. When you're not using them the case automatically charges them up and it carries 4x full extra charges. Charging case itself charges in 2 hours from empty.
> 
> Pretty impressive and since they're IPX5 they're ideal for the gym.
> 
> Call quality is decent, but not anything to write home about. You can hear every movement e.g. if I tap my teeth it would be projected through the mic.



Damn they sound decent, and your rate them above the jabra elite 65t's right?


----------



## kiwikozo

korefuji said:


> Damn they sound decent, and your rate them above the jabra elite 65t's right?



Yes, without a doubt. RHA also offer a 3-year warranty. I'm excited to compare them with the Sennheiser but more so the battery.


----------



## willryan042

How does the RHA handle video lag on Youtube/Netflix/iOS TV app?


----------



## clerkpalmer

kiwikozo said:


> Yes, without a doubt. RHA also offer a 3-year warranty. I'm excited to compare them with the Sennheiser but more so the battery.



The feedback on the sq of the rha is interesting since they are SBC only. Seems like they may be giving the 65t a run for new best all arounders. The sale by mw07 and the Bose dropping to 169 today says the competition is fierce in this space. Good for consumers.


----------



## Sharkhunter

i have sennheiser on pre-order.. I owned E8 earlier. 

I feel like sennheiser would stick out of my ears more than E8. Looks like i am going to hate how they look on me.


----------



## dweaver

well my not so completely wireless Radsone ES100 came in tonight and I am going to enjoy great music and 14hrs of battery life 

Might have to see if I can find a short MMCX cable I can use so I can clip the ES100 on my shirt collar...

Then use the 700N when I go jogging or for actual exercise...


----------



## MNX1024

Really long day for me today, tomorrow will be longer and start early too. So, I'll keep it short about my RHA TrueConnect, which arrived today. Battery lasted around 4 hours and 30 minutes using 60-75% volume. It sounds much better than the Sony WF-700N and the Samsung Gear IconX 2018. Build quality for both the headphones and case is superb.


----------



## korefuji

for those enquiring about alternative tips for Jabras, got this email from SpinFit

[





> We are currently working on a new model (CP360) to better fit the Jabra earphones.  Make sure to like and follow us on Facebook & Instagram for updated information on when the new model will come out!



Stay tuned i guess


----------



## webreaper (Nov 21, 2018)

Interesting seeing all the comments. From my perspective, the Jabras are way good enough, particularly at the cost. The SQ is really good (bass is surprisingly good - listening to Kravitz's 'Sister' that first bass note still kicks well enough, even with flat EQ), and the fit, features and general functionality is excellent. TBH, I thought about waiting for the Senns before ordering them, but a friend who I trust said the Jabras were excellent, so I thought I'd save £100.

The Gizmodo and Forbes review (despite taking them with a large pinch of salt), and my previous love of the IE80 sound just tipped me to pre-order the Sennheisers, because my focus is 75% sound, and 25% features. If the Senn call functionality and app are mediocre, but the SQ is really as good as the initial reviews imply, then they'll do me fine. That said, unless I'm blown away comparatively by the Senns, they'll go back and I'll stick with the 65Ts. Thankfully for me, being in the UK and having not got a return history with Amazon, I can very carefully try the Senns for 20 mins which will be enough to know which will be returned. That's what I love about Amazon Prime - they'll take the return, no questions asked. I suspect they make more money that way anyway, since a lot of people probably pull the trigger on stuff they wouldn't normally buy, and the small percentage of returns are sold easily through their used/refurb channel.

For the guy who worried about the Senns sticking out of his ears too much - I worried about that too, but then realised that my old IE80s looked huge (and before that I had the UE SuperFi V EBs which were enormous) so as long as they fit well and sound good, I couldn't give a toss what I look like.


----------



## webreaper

BTW, I notice that using the link to the Senn manual, the Smart Control app doesn't appear to be available yet (http://www.sennheiser.com/device-control-app redirects, and there's no download link to Google Play etc). I was going to have a look and see what it offered. 

For those getting their Senns today/tomorrow, is that a concern?


----------



## korefuji

webreaper said:


> BTW, I notice that using the link to the Senn manual, the Smart Control app doesn't appear to be available yet (http://www.sennheiser.com/device-control-app redirects, and there's no download link to Google Play etc). I was going to have a look and see what it offered.
> 
> For those getting their Senns today/tomorrow, is that a concern?



Maybe it comes with CD?  jk


----------



## alex804

plisandro said:


> Anyone knows if this is the same Auvio that used to sell in Radioshack? https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/motion-plus-earbuds-perfect-fit-better-sound/x/19631720#/
> 
> I'm torn on pulling the plug on Havit G1Ws or waiting out a tad longer. The Havits have reportedly great sound and Qi charging, which is a dealbreaker for me, but the limited feature set and the bulky charging case is putting me off.


i am quite interested in this Auvio Motion Plus earbuds. Long hour, bluetooth 5.0, ip45, and support aptx for an affordable price.


----------



## korefuji (Nov 21, 2018)

https://www.backerkit.com/projects/motion-plus-earbuds-better-sound-perfect-fit

According to backetkit it failed, but according to indiegogo it succeeded, unless this was their second round?

Yep was their second round, first round didnt' go too well:

https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/motion-plus-earbuds-better-sound-perfect-fit#/

Direct link to their website, which redirects to indiegogo https://www.auviosound.com/


----------



## webreaper

Another glowing review for the Senn MTWs. https://thenextweb.com/plugged/2018...are-the-airpods-upgrade-ive-been-waiting-for/


----------



## korefuji

webreaper said:


> Another glowing review for the Senn MTWs. https://thenextweb.com/plugged/2018...are-the-airpods-upgrade-ive-been-waiting-for/



Damn, they seem to be amazing. Ha, but I'll take it with a grain of salt until I see more reviews. 1 hour to charge is still 45 mins too long imo. Maybe I can keep the Jabras as a back up pair and get the senn's as a main....


----------



## plisandro (Nov 21, 2018)

Looks like i might need to reconsider thes


alex804 said:


> i am quite interested in this Auvio Motion Plus earbuds. Long hour, bluetooth 5.0, ip45, and support aptx for an affordable price.



Ditto. The indiegogo price is very good for the features provided, but i have zero background on the company. See XFyro's Aria for a recent crowfunded TWS in-ears horror story.

I'd just kill for something like a Jabra Elite or Sennheiser TMW with Qi charging...


----------



## webvan (Nov 21, 2018)

korefuji said:


> for those enquiring about alternative tips for Jabras, got this email from SpinFit
> 
> [
> 
> Stay tuned i guess



Thanks for sharing, something a bit "beefier" than the current stock silicones would definitely help !

A video review of the Senn MTW here : 

They are indeed pretty massive !
In the thenextweb review they mention that the isolation is better with foam tips but they don't say which ones they used and that generally comes at the cost of (muffled) SQ. Only silicone tips in the box according to the Senn website.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

Best Buy Magnolia has the Senns in. Going to snag a pair now. Will report my findings.


----------



## clerkpalmer

SomeGuyDude said:


> Best Buy Magnolia has the Senns in. Going to snag a pair now. Will report my findings.


How'd you grab. Website says sold out?


----------



## kiwikozo

Do the sennheiser really have no fast charge option?

Someone above mentioned 1h to 50% battery? That seems like too long and only two charges on the case + no battery indication on the case itself.

These "reviews" (hands on) don't seem to be actually testing the battery life. 

One also said they're not very loud. 

Fingers crossed battery life is > 3h 30m at a loud volume and the charge time to 50% is 30 minutes....


----------



## SomeGuyDude

clerkpalmer said:


> How'd you grab. Website says sold out?



That's what it says when you can't order online and it's in store only. At least usually. We'll see what happens when I get there.

Considering they literally got released in store this morning I don't think they sold out lol


----------



## clerkpalmer

SomeGuyDude said:


> That's what it says when you can't order online and it's in store only. At least usually. We'll see what happens when I get there.
> 
> Considering they literally got released in store this morning I don't think they sold out lol


I see so you think they may just have them in stock? Let us know.


----------



## chinmie

plisandro said:


> Looks like i might need to reconsider thes
> 
> 
> Ditto. The indiegogo price is very good for the features provided, but i have zero background on the company. See XFyro's Aria for a recent crowfunded TWS in-ears horror story.
> ...



what happened to the xfyro campaign?


----------



## SomeGuyDude

clerkpalmer said:


> I see so you think they may just have them in stock? Let us know.


Yep. It's a bit of a drive, but no big deal. No work today.


----------



## bedlamite (Nov 21, 2018)

alex804 said:


> i am quite interested in this Auvio Motion Plus earbuds. Long hour, bluetooth 5.0, ip45, and support aptx for an affordable price.


Auvio sounds vaguely familiar, so I took a chance and backed them. Padmate's Pamu Scrolls have been an excellent buy so I'm hoping I'll be 2 for 3 when it comes to the crowdfunded wireless earbud sweepstakes (Kickstarted Zolo's Liberty+ and those were disappointing. Product works perfectly fine, but the case is huge and heavy and the bass on the earbuds are a little loose.) As with wired IEMs, these Chinese products are giving the big boys a real run for their money. My E8s are cleaner sounding, with lovely build quality, but the Scroll surely isn't far behind. And at one-sixth the price!

The Senns are intriguing, will definitely have a listen when I can.


----------



## plisandro (Nov 21, 2018)

chinmie said:


> what happened to the xfyro campaign?



I kept an eye on it since mid September when i started looking into TWS earbuds. The specs looked pretty interesting - 10mm drivers, ANC, compact size, 32h (!!!) battery life.

XFyro officially started shipping these on early October, yet backers are *still* complaining about not getting their orders. There's also multiple reports in the comment sections from people who only received one earbud, or suffering poor battery life and frequent disconnects.


----------



## Ocelitgol

dweaver said:


> well my not so completely wireless Radsone ES100 came in tonight and I am going to enjoy great music and 14hrs of battery life
> 
> Might have to see if I can find a short MMCX cable I can use so I can clip the ES100 on my shirt collar...
> 
> Then use the 700N when I go jogging or for actual exercise...



Fiio has some short mmcx cables


----------



## dweaver

stormers said:


> Fiio has some short mmcx cables


awesome thanks for the info I will look into those!


----------



## SomeGuyDude

None in stock. Online only apparently.


----------



## clerkpalmer

SomeGuyDude said:


> None in stock. Online only apparently.


Yeah I saw. Earliest delivery date for me is showing next Tuesday. Gonna stick with my audio46 preorder who said they’d ship today.


----------



## mikp

dweaver said:


> awesome thanks for the info I will look into those!


lc-35as i think this is


----------



## korefuji

I cancelled the Jabras, ordered the Senn's from the Sennheiser website, should be here by Friday


----------



## willryan042

korefuji said:


> I cancelled the Jabras, ordered the Senn's from the Sennheiser website, should be here by Friday



I got nervous when I saw the "Shipping can be delayed until 11/30/18" on Senn's website. Placed an order with Best Buy.


----------



## korefuji

willryan042 said:


> I got nervous when I saw the "Shipping can be delayed until 11/30/18" on Senn's website. Placed an order with Best Buy.


I think Senn were covering their backs inc ase they didnt meet stock. But it looks like they kinda did


----------



## webreaper

Yeah, I'm assuming that Amazon's delivery date for pre-orders of 14-Dec is expectation-management, and that they may arrive before that. Although they may be later in the UK than the US, perhaps.


----------



## n20nine

korefuji said:


> I cancelled the Jabras, ordered the Senn's from the Sennheiser website, should be here by Friday


Haha, you sounded like someone who would prefer the Senn's from the beginning. Glad you've bought it!
Mine should arrive tomorrow according to the tracker.


----------



## korefuji (Nov 21, 2018)

n20nine said:


> Haha, you sounded like someone who would prefer the Senn's from the beginning. Glad you've bought it!
> Mine should arrive tomorrow according to the tracker.


They've shipped already!

Oh it's coming from Germany, so I guess I have to wait till Friday or Saturday, doubt they'll arrive tomorrow.


----------



## Sharkhunter

SomeGuyDude said:


> Best Buy Magnolia has the Senns in. Going to snag a pair now. Will report my findings.


delivery estimate is for Nov 30th if ordered today.


----------



## kiwikozo (Nov 21, 2018)

How risky is using IPX4 for gym workouts?


----------



## Chrisdu18e

webreaper said:


> Yeah, I'm assuming that Amazon's delivery date for pre-orders of 14-Dec is expectation-management, and that they may arrive before that. Although they may be later in the UK than the US, perhaps.


In France, it's the same date for Amazon. Maybe, Sennheiser wish Amazon couldn't sell the TW before, because of his specific cancelation policy.


----------



## webreaper

Chrisdu18e said:


> In France, it's the same date for Amazon. Maybe, Sennheiser wish Amazon couldn't sell the TW before, because of his specific cancelation policy.



I doubt it. Amazon's cancellation policy is likely their own managed one - I doubt they have the items on sale-or-return from Senn. It's probably more about stock allocation. I suspect that Amazon want a very high number available before they will present stock to the public, because they want to fulfil orders. So Sennheiser may have said "if you want 2,000 items, you'll need to wait until mid-Dec". But it could also be Amazon setting expectations - better to say '14 Dec' and ship early at the end of November, than have customers complaining when their stuff comes late.


----------



## Chrisdu18e

webreaper said:


> I doubt it. Amazon's cancellation policy is likely their own managed one -.


If you buy with Amazon in France, you can send back the product during 30 days, even if the bags of tips is open. Sennheiser doesn't propose this option if one bag is open.


----------



## webvan

Are we sure there are bags in the MTW box?


----------



## webreaper

Chrisdu18e said:


> If you buy with Amazon in France, you can send back the product during 30 days, even if the bags of tips is open. Sennheiser doesn't propose this option if one bag is open.


Yes, the same in the UK - Amazon's return policy is fantastic.


----------



## korefuji

I think I discovered the correct foam tips for senns. It’s the true grip pro comply tips. I checked their (comply) website and sure enough it’s the recommended tips. Sadly can’t find them in the U.K. anyone know the actual model number for true grip pro??


----------



## webreaper

korefuji said:


> I think I discovered the correct foam tips for senns. It’s the true grip pro comply tips. I checked their (comply) website and sure enough it’s the recommended tips. Sadly can’t find them in the U.K. anyone know the actual model number for true grip pro??


I think you're meaning the True Wireless comply tips. Available in the UK here: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Comply-Replacement-SweatGuard-Comfortable-Listening/dp/B0711FBXJW
I'll probably be getting some for my Jabras or the Senn MTWs, whichever I end up keeping.


----------



## Chrisdu18e

webvan said:


> Are we sure there are bags in the MTW box?


You're right, it's only an assumption. I'll know it tomorrow evening.


----------



## korefuji (Nov 21, 2018)

webreaper said:


> I think you're meaning the True Wireless comply tips. Available in the UK here: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Comply-Replacement-SweatGuard-Comfortable-Listening/dp/B0711FBXJW
> I'll probably be getting some for my Jabras or the Senn MTWs, whichever I end up keeping.


Nope.

I ended up ordering three pairs because I expect I’ll be charged customs.


----------



## webvan

On the Comply tips for TW earbuds, I'd done some searching and found that : 
- old model is the Truly Wireless, no longer available in the USA. I ordered some on Amazon and they're TINY and useless for my ears, I do use L tips generally. They fit the Jabra 65t.
- new model is TrueGrip, available in the USA but NOT in Europe. Some have said they were the same as the Truly Wireless https://www.amazon.com/ask/questions/Tx3IML3J4SIPQ8G but Comply disagree. The do NOT fit the Jabra 65t.
- Someone here tried a special Jabra 65t version Comply were working on and quite liked them I think but Comply have yet to put them on the market.

I've found that the Tsx-200 fit the 65t ok but they muffle the sound pretty badly and don't fit in the case of course, so not worth it in my book.

Hope that helps !


----------



## doo_wop

Anyone tried the Mavin Air-X? They use the QCC3026 so have longer battery life and some other benefits. Use some weird tips though, hopefully standard ones can be used too. Not available in the UK yet but looks like they are on Amazon US if anyone is interested. They don't come up for me when searched directly on Amazon but can be found through google. Also there are some reviews on Amazon Japan but not sure I trust those.


----------



## mikp

doo_wop said:


> Anyone tried the Mavin Air-X? They use the QCC3026 so have longer battery life and some other benefits. Use some weird tips though, hopefully standard ones can be used too. Not available in the UK yet but looks like they are on Amazon US if anyone is interested. They don't come up for me when searched directly on Amazon but can be found through google. Also there are some reviews on Amazon Japan but not sure I trust those.


getting one on friday I think, just out of curiosity.


----------



## kiwikozo

korefuji said:


> They've shipped already!
> 
> Oh it's coming from Germany, so I guess I have to wait till Friday or Saturday, doubt they'll arrive tomorrow.


Did you not follow the tracking email from sennheiser?

It says mine are arriving tomorrow. Very excited after the other reviews mentioned 3+ hour battery at max volume with a 1h charge time. I will test them out properly over the next few days and report my findings.


----------



## korefuji

kiwikozo said:


> Did you not follow the tracking email from sennheiser?
> 
> It says mine are arriving tomorrow. Very excited after the other reviews mentioned 3+ hour battery at max volume with a 1h charge time. I will test them out properly over the next few days and report my findings.



It had no estimated date at the time I clicked it, just said dispatch from germany, then a refresh a little later shows Friday for me. I would upgrade the delivery to tomorrow if I could, but alas no option. Unless you guys know if UPS offer upgrading of delivery to a faster speed?


----------



## Ocelitgol

doo_wop said:


> Anyone tried the Mavin Air-X? They use the QCC3026 so have longer battery life and some other benefits. Use some weird tips though, hopefully standard ones can be used too. Not available in the UK yet but looks like they are on Amazon US if anyone is interested. They don't come up for me when searched directly on Amazon but can be found through google. Also there are some reviews on Amazon Japan but not sure I trust those.



the claim for that battery is pretty...bold. I can't find a solid review on these and its project on Indigogo seems to be canceled. Still....very curious



mikp said:


> getting one on friday I think, just out of curiosity.


looking forward to your impression


----------



## SomeGuyDude

kiwikozo said:


> Did you not follow the tracking email from sennheiser?
> 
> It says mine are arriving tomorrow. Very excited after the other reviews mentioned 3+ hour battery at max volume with a 1h charge time. I will test them out properly over the next few days and report my findings.



Definitely curious to hear. If no Best Buys are actually getting them in stock I'll be ordering a set pretty shortly myself.


----------



## klyzon

anyone 2pin bluetooth cable that is good? Not considering Lear and AAW


----------



## dweaver

Interesting, Sennheiser is offering a 30 day return guarantee on these in Canada. So they are pretty confident. I will wait for some early reviews but a chance I might buy these since I can actually return them if unhappy with them.


----------



## AnakChan

dweaver said:


> Interesting, Sennheiser is offering a 30 day return guarantee on these in Canada. So they are pretty confident. I will wait for some early reviews but a chance I might buy these since I can actually return them if unhappy with them.


Gizmodo put their review up few days back :-

https://gizmodo.com/sennheisers-truly-wireless-earbuds-sound-impossibly-goo-1830542765/amp


----------



## dweaver (Nov 22, 2018)

I mean reviews impressions here plus a more technical reviews. That review sure makes it tempting to pull the trigger though


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## eirunoopi (Nov 22, 2018)

First time post, but I've been following this thread for quite a while now.
I got the MW07 a few days ago and I've been testing it with a variety of music. From reading comments on the thread, I was wary of the supposedly short battery life, but expected good bass, clarity, and isolation.

Initial impressions were rather underwhelming. It didn't have much bass, and I had to resort to cranking up the low frequencies on the Spotify app equaliser. Even then, there wasn't much bass, and I thought perhaps other people's expectations of "bass-heavy" were quite different from mine. The sound seemed pretty good otherwise in terms of clarity, but I wanted more bass, so I was ready to return it.

Two things have changed my mind. One-- I realised I was swivelling the earbuds in the opposite direction to how they were supposed to be turned. For the right earbud, facing into my ear, they are meant to be turned anticlockwise; I had a better fit turning them clockwise. This directs the nozzle into my ear canal. Two-- I tried changing the tips and wings. I have large ears, so I used the larger wings that came with the earbuds. That helped a bit. For the tips, I tried using the smaller and larger ones that came in the package but it didn't help much. The isolation wasn't great either, so I tried switching the tips with some on my other cheap earbuds which I knew to have good isolation. This improved the isolation massively, and subsequently, the bass as well.

With these changes, they sound radically different. They now have a very satisfying thud for low freq beats, and great isolation. It's still pretty dependent on finding a good fit (I need to twist them in a certain way until they are snug), but once I do, it produces as much bass as I want, along with good clarity of sound.

If I had to compare these to headphones, I'd say they sound like my DT770s but with a little more in the mid freq range, and a smaller soundstage.

I'd like to try out the Sennheisers for comparison, but I'm very happy with these as they are.

edit: I also want to point out that they have 0 lag when I watch videos on my iPhone and Mac. The mic seems fine too.


----------



## webreaper

Looks like the Senn MTW app is there on Play now: https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.sennheiser.control&hl=en_GB


----------



## webvan

klyzon said:


> anyone 2pin bluetooth cable that is good? Not considering Lear and AAW


I have the TRN BT3 incoming, looks like a convenient setup. aptX too.


----------



## n20nine

Delivery attempted but no one was home  Leaving work early today to collect the Senn's from the UPS Access Point and will update with first impressions soon.


----------



## webvan (Nov 22, 2018)

We're getting close for the Senns !

So I just received the TRN BT3 2 pin adapter that I've connected to my TRN V80 earbuds and they work quite well...except that I get a lot of HISS ! I don't remember having that with the otherwise poor fitting KZ BT Adapter, will have to dig it out. Maybe change phones too just in case. I hope it's not the same with the TRN BT20 that's designed to turn 2pin/MMCX earbuds into TWS. Oh and unlike what's claimed it is NOT aptX as my Android 8.1 Nokia 8 can only connect in SBC and AAC. Not surprising based on some comments posted in this thread last week I think.

EDIT - tried with another phone, hiss still there. Found a review on reddit that complained about it too as well as on the TRN BT10, so it's likely the TRN BT20 will have the same problem...
EDIT2 - it is in fact aptX as I found by sniffing the BT packets, the problem in fact lies with my Nokia 8 that does NOT support aptX.


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## sly_in_the_sky (Nov 22, 2018)

Deleted


----------



## SomeGuyDude

eirunoopi said:


> First time post, but I've been following this thread for quite a while now.
> I got the MW07 a few days ago and I've been testing it with a variety of music. From reading comments on the thread, I was wary of the supposedly short battery life, but expected good bass, clarity, and isolation.
> 
> Initial impressions were rather underwhelming. It didn't have much bass, and I had to resort to cranking up the low frequencies on the Spotify app equaliser. Even then, there wasn't much bass, and I thought perhaps other people's expectations of "bass-heavy" were quite different from mine. The sound seemed pretty good otherwise in terms of clarity, but I wanted more bass, so I was ready to return it.
> ...



I tossed on some Comply sport foams (since I use them in the gym) and it also adds some thump and bang. I really do think they're my "ideal" TWE, the battery life is the only sticking point. The DT770 description is a good one. I like that.


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## Chrisdu18e (Nov 22, 2018)

I've just received my Senn'. They're charging.
First thing, the bags of the tips could be open and reopen. The box is quite small (14,5 cmx 8,5 cm / 5,7 in x  3,3 in), of the same than the charging box (L = 7,8 cm x W = 4,4 cm x H = 3 cm / L = 3,07 in x W = 1,73 in x H = 1,18 in).
A few longer than the jabra 65 T Active (1,8 cm more / 0,70 in more)
The magnetic system to put your TW in the charging box is really efficient.


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## webvan (Nov 22, 2018)

Lucky you ! So in light of the bag situation it seems one could order from Senn and send them back if not happy 

By the way where do you see that "plastic bag" policy on the Sennheiser website ? I looked at the FAQ here https://fr-fr.sennheiser.com/boutique-faqs but see no mention of it ? Or on the Digital River page.


----------



## smaragd

Chrisdu18e said:


> I've just received my Senn'. They're charging.
> First thing, the bags of the tips could be open and reopen. The box is quite small (14,5 cmx 8,5 cm / 5,7 in x  3,3 in), of the same than the charging box (L = 7,8 cm x W = 4,4 cm x H = 3 cm / L = 3,07 in x W = 1,73 in x H = 1,18 in).
> A few longer than the jabra 65 T Active (1,8 cm more / 0,70 in more)
> The magnetic system to put your TW in the charging box is really efficient.


Would love to hear your feedback with regards to stability of connection and sound quality.
I know they don’t compare price wise but have been trying a pair of Pamuscroll TWs and the left earbud keeps cutting out intermittently in various environments... I know that it’s common in train stations and busy spots with countless WiFi hotspots... but either this pamuscroll is faulty or not usable in places like Tokyo and Hong Kong...
Keep us posted pls. ☺️


----------



## albau

eirunoopi said:


> First time post, but I've been following this thread for quite a while now.
> I got the MW07 a few days ago and I've been testing it with a variety of music. From reading comments on the thread, I was wary of the supposedly short battery life, but expected good bass, clarity, and isolation.
> 
> Initial impressions were rather underwhelming. It didn't have much bass, and I had to resort to cranking up the low frequencies on the Spotify app equaliser. Even then, there wasn't much bass, and I thought perhaps other people's expectations of "bass-heavy" were quite different from mine. The sound seemed pretty good otherwise in terms of clarity, but I wanted more bass, so I was ready to return it.
> ...


Nice! Very much my story. My ears are also rather big and I had hard time fitting mw07. Finally found combo with good fit and isolation - stock XL ear tips and large fins. They indeed are very sensitive to how you wrestle them into ears. After that to me they sound exceptional, wireless or not. Maybe even a little too much bass on some tracks. With battery so far my pair lasts around 3 hours and few minutes before starting to beep annoyingly. That’s enough for my usage but I wish like 65t they had an app that would show the charge level. I usually set volume at max on my S8 and adjust it downward from the left bud.


----------



## Burakk

Chrisdu18e said:


> I've just received my Senn'. They're charging.
> First thing, the bags of the tips could be open and reopen. The box is quite small (14,5 cmx 8,5 cm / 5,7 in x  3,3 in), of the same than the charging box (L = 7,8 cm x W = 4,4 cm x H = 3 cm / L = 3,07 in x W = 1,73 in x H = 1,18 in).
> A few longer than the jabra 65 T Active (1,8 cm more / 0,70 in more)
> The magnetic system to put your TW in the charging box is really efficient.


Would be great if your share call quality of Senns MTW.


----------



## Chrisdu18e

webvan said:


> Lucky you ! So in light of the bag situation it seems one could order from Senn and send them back if not happy
> 
> By the way where do you see that "plastic bag" policy on the Sennheiser website ? I looked at the FAQ here https://fr-fr.sennheiser.com/boutique-faqs but see no mention of it ? Or on the Digital River page.


This is what is written in my confirmation order's mail from Sennheinser. I let you the exact mentions in french : 

*INFORMATIONS SUR LES RETOURS*
Vous pouvez renvoyer votre commande dans les 30 jours à compter de la réception de la marchandise. Sennheiser garantit l'acceptation des articles renvoyés et assurera un remboursement intégral au cours de cette période. Veuillez conserver une copie de votre bon de livraison, fourni avec votre commande, pour vos dossiers. *Nous exigeons que tous les articles fournis en emballage plastique transparent soient renvoyés non ouverts*.

Pour effectuer un retour, veuillez nous contacter ici.


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## webvan

ok thanks, couldn't find that info on their site. It seems you'd need to request a return on the website too and not just send them back out like they say in that email ?


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## BigAund (Nov 22, 2018)

Senns arrived today. So far, nice product, easy pairing with Android. Bit underwhelmed with the choice of tips but can't have everything. The phone has BT5 so will be interested to see if it helps with connection stability, something my earins have struggled with when the device is not placed exactly right.

The charging case feels premium with its magnet closure and mags for the earbuds. Not sure on the long term durability of the fabric but it feels nice now.

Charging seemed to be pretty quick

Just started listening, sound is good, quite even. I have the Earin m2 as well, the senns are less bassy and have a nicer more well rounded sound. Early days though.

Sennheiser app is ok, EQ seems a bit basic. Seems to be able to make firmware updates via it too.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

All the talk of "neutral" and "not bassy" in reference to the Senns kinda puts me off of wanting them. Maybe it's a good thing BB didn't have them in stock.


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## Chrisdu18e (Nov 22, 2018)

Burakk said:


> Would be great if your share call quality of Senns MTW.


I try to call contacts but they were occupied so I was transferred to their answering machine. So I just try to call myself and the result is less good than the Jabra 65 T active.
You have to launch "Transparent Hearing" option otherwise you hear weakly your own voice. Even with the TH option, it's not perfect.
I listen the result on my answering machine. We hear the voice but the sound is little low. And I was inside with no noise at all. So, according to me, outside, with people and sounds, I don't use often this TW fot this use, especially for long calls
The jabra do it really better.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

Which makes sense, since Jabra made their name for communication devices and Senn made theirs with audio.


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## Chrisdu18e

smaragd said:


> Would love to hear your feedback with regards to stability of connection and sound quality.
> I know they don’t compare price wise but have been trying a pair of Pamuscroll TWs and the left earbud keeps cutting out intermittently in various environments... I know that it’s common in train stations and busy spots with countless WiFi hotspots... but either this pamuscroll is faulty or not usable in places like Tokyo and Hong Kong...
> Keep us posted pls. ☺️


I can't answer you now for the stability of the connection because I'm at home and can't move before 6 PM, but I don't have any disconnection yet. 
For the SQ, I prefer a little the sound reproduction of the MWO7. But the Senn propose very correct soundstage and sound balance, according to me better than Jabra 65.
I coudn't say that they are totally neutral, but they are quite well balanced. 
The middle and the high are very good, well retranscipted. I have to play with the EQ of my app Onkyo HF Player to adjust a little the low and I find the perfect signature for me.
Of course, it's not the same quality of a good wired IEM but it's enough for my use.
The EQ of the Senn's app is, for me, really too much simplified. You have to move up and down, right or left, no indication of KHertz at all. 
the Senn' are enough powerfull. More powerfull than the Jabra and a little less than the MW07.
I prefer the ergonomy of the Jabra because for the Senn' you have to touch, double touch, triple touch, hold touch right or left ear.
Overall I am very satisfied and I will keep them.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

The more I'm reading the more likely I'm just staying with the MW07. Big thanks to everyone for the impressions thus far!


----------



## webvan

Thanks for the first user feedback on the Senns. How's the fit compared to the 65Ts that are those that work best for me, fit/comfort/Isolation/ease of placement. They could just be a tad deeper.


----------



## Chrisdu18e

webvan said:


> Thanks for the first user feedback on the Senns. How's the fit compared to the 65Ts that are those that work best for me, fit/comfort/Isolation/ease of placement. They could just be a tad deeper.


It depends obviously of each shape ear, but I've no pb with the fit of the Senn's, either with the jabra.
On the other hand, if we want to adjust the volume you have to hold your TW (righ for up and left for less), it moves a little your fit if you press too hard.
But generally, the fit is as good as my jabra. I can turn and move my head quickly several times and the TW won't fall


----------



## webvan

ok thanks, they probably stick out a bit more than the Jabras ?


----------



## Sharkhunter

Chrisdu18e said:


> It depends obviously of each shape ear, but I've no pb with the fit of the Senn's, either with the jabra.
> On the other hand, if we want to adjust the volume you have to hold your TW (righ for up and left for less), it moves a little your fit if you press too hard.
> But generally, the fit is as good as my jabra. I can turn and move my head quickly several times and the TW won't fall


Does it stick out really out. Would u see yourself wearing this out for commute.?
i used to make fun of people with airpods. atleast it looks fine now


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## webreaper

AirPods just look stupid, so you can still make fun of them. But really, why does anyone care what they look like? I can't see my ears, and frankly if the sound quality is good enough I don't give a toss what other people think. Most people on headfi walk around with full sized headphones looking like Cybermen and don't give it a second thought...


----------



## SomeGuyDude

webreaper said:


> AirPods just look stupid, so you can still make fun of them. But really, why does anyone care what they look like? I can't see my ears, and frankly if the sound quality is good enough I don't give a toss what other people think. Most people on headfi walk around with full sized headphones looking like Cybermen and don't give it a second thought...



Dudes are taking ZMF and MrSpeakers monstrosities out in public and people are quibbling over a quarter inch of an earbud jutting out.


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## n20nine

Here are some pics from my phone. Charging them now.


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## korefuji

for those that have tried the senn's, any sense of background his, power noise or anything like that?


----------



## MyrenJobrah

I haven't received my Senns yet but the consensus so far seems to be that the bass is lacking. Can it at least be EQ'd without distortion? Comparable to IE80?

I managed to pick up the Vegas yesterday for $900 so I may end up just selling the Senns if their bass isn't good enough.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

It's really weird to me that the Senn would be bass light. Aside from the Momentum line generally being more "consumer" tuned, a TWE is something intended to be used on the go, when elevated bass is pretty necessary to be heard over external noise. People aren't buying them to sit in a silent study and listen free of any sound in the environment.


----------



## michaeljefford

Just got home to find my pair had arrived. Gave a quick charge, then had a little play round.

Default tips fit me fine, I was shaking my head vigorously, no movement.

Touch controls are cool, and work effectively, as is transparent mode which I find incredibly useful.

The sound from the quick demo I gave them was impressive. Fantastic highs and mid-range, bass is ever present, if a little boomy, but thats coming from Momentum Wireless Over Ears which have fantastic bass.

Love the case, so beautiful 

Overall my early impressions are that these are a great buy. Thank you Sennheiser!


----------



## korefuji

teh issue of bass, i guess is subjective, I mean we've had 2 people say the bass  is lacking and one that says it's boomy. How does the bass compare to the MW07?


----------



## kiwikozo

So my Sennheisers TW came today, they're pretty good.

Have had a busy day, not much time - but here are my quick impressions:

The case is okay, not as premium feeling as the RHA one. Open/close mechanism actually feels cheap / plasticy. I think the LED light is 3x colour stage so that's fine for battery indication.

Earbuds are extremely comfortable, fantastic fit.

I think there is a good deal of Bass. I wouldn't say it was flat, more bass-heavy..... If anyone says they're light on bass well they must be "bass-heads".

The clarity overall is great, I'm going to keep them and return the RHAs.

EQ is pretty basic, I'd use another app instead to play around with it. Gestures are okay, and when you remove the right earbud it pauses the music 80% of the time. Swipe gestures to change song would've been better than tapping.

They get very loud - the headphones/phone have separate volume levels. That reviewer who said they were quiet obviously didn't test them properly.


I think the battery life will be more than 3h, haven't tested the charging time yet.


----------



## michaeljefford

For reference, I am an avid user of Bluetooth Over Ear Headphones, and as such this is the first pair of true wireless I've owned.

I'm coming from the PX, XM3, QC35i, Momentum Over Ear.

The bass is plentiful, a lil less than the XM3 that have a slightly emphasised low end, but more than the PX's more neutral signature.

It doesn't muddy the mid-range, which is where these guys truly shine in my opinion.

Can't comment on the MW07.


----------



## webreaper

I noticed today that the UK Sennheiser site has MTW in stock for immediate shipment. So I've cancelled my Amazon peeorder and gone direct, as they should arrive in 2 business days. I'll return the Jabras unless the Senns are indistinguishable from them, which it sounds like they won't be. 

The reviews so far are great, but can anyone compare the relative SQ and bass to the 65Ts?


----------



## Chrisdu18e

Sharkhunter said:


> Does it stick out really out. Would u see yourself wearing this out for commute.?
> i used to make fun of people with airpods. atleast it looks fine now


It does stick out a little but it's not important. 
Honnestly, I used to wear demo IEM (Fitear 335 DW) during 2 years and it was excessivelly more important and it didn't bother me.
These TW are a little bit bigger than the jabra.


----------



## kiwikozo

Does anybody else with the Sennheiser TW find the right earbud drains quite a bit faster than the left?

I thought there was no primary, that they connect via a magnetic field.


----------



## Chrisdu18e

korefuji said:


> for those that have tried the senn's, any sense of background his, power noise or anything like that?


Nothing, no hiss, no noise....


----------



## Chrisdu18e

kiwikozo said:


> Does anybody else with the Sennheiser TW find the right earbud drains quite a bit faster than the left?
> 
> I thought there was no primary, that they connect via a magnetic field.


The left earbud is slave.The right earbud consume more battery


----------



## Hoplite

kiwikozo said:


> So my Sennheisers TW came today, they're pretty good.
> 
> Have had a busy day, not much time - but here are my quick impressions:
> 
> ...


I have RHA incoming. After seeing your views, i wonder if i should have waited and bought sennheiser instead


----------



## michaeljefford

kiwikozo said:


> Does anybody else with the Sennheiser TW find the right earbud drains quite a bit faster than the left?
> 
> I thought there was no primary, that they connect via a magnetic field.



Yes, I'm seeing the same from checking the App, between 5-6% more than the left.


----------



## TokenGesture

How is Senn’s call quality / microphones please


----------



## kiwikozo

Hoplite said:


> I have RHA incoming. After seeing your views, i wonder if i should have waited and bought sennheiser instead



RHAs are very good for the price, they last 4.5 hours and have a quick charge of 15m to 50%, and a 3 year warranty. I love the fact they basically have no logo. The case is of excellent quality, with 4 charges too! I much prefer them to the sony and jabra.

But the Sennheisers are very special, the fit is far more comfortable (for my ears), they feel lighter and less physically present in your ears, they get much louder, there is firmware support + an actual app.... The sound is clearer, crisper, more exciting. Additional features - transparent hearing, much clearer microphone, aac, aptx...


----------



## kiwikozo

michaeljefford said:


> Yes, I'm seeing the same from checking the App, between 5-6% more than the left.



Weird, mine is 30% different. I'm pretty certain both were at 100% originally. Maybe they will level out once they've been charged up again.


----------



## n20nine

So first impressions are:

- case is a little bit flimsy. Not sure how the hinge will hold up
- touch controls work 80% of the time, one too many commands to remember
- app is quite basic and you can't seem to change the name of the device
- the right side tends to drain more battery
- its all about the fit for best sound quality. the included tips are a bit shallow. i'd buy 3rd party ones

Good stuff:
- probably the widest sound stage for a TWS I have encountered, waiting to try the MW07
- clean, accurate sound. my beatsx is a bit more energetic though, but nowhere as capable as these
- love the size of it, so small and looks elegant
- no hiss nor background sound
- no video lag at all, tried various video apps, incl. youtube, netflix etc.
- very stable bluetooth connection, no lags, drop-outs etc.

Want to try the MW07 as many people are raving about the sound quality. Will update more as the units get used more and 'break-in'.

Some pics:


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## kiwikozo (Nov 22, 2018)

Sennheiser TW charge time is either rapid, or incorrect. In 5 minutes the earbuds went from 39% > 78%


----------



## klyzon

I actually return the senn in favor of my earins m2


----------



## korefuji

klyzon said:


> I actually return the senn in favor of my earins m2



What didn't you like about the Senn's, in comparison out of curiosity?

I didn't know about the Earin's until you posted so I duckduckgo'd and found they look rather interesting


----------



## SomeGuyDude

kiwikozo said:


> Sennheiser TW charge time is either rapid, or incorrect. In 5 minutes the earbuds went from 39% > 78%



You'll see that a lot in the TW that do the "fifteen minutes gives you an hour and a half" thing. It'll spike up hard really quickly but then stabilize a good chunk lower than that. The MW07 will go from a warning beep to 100% in like ten minutes but ten minutes after that it's at 60% and drains normally from there.


----------



## chinmie

n20nine said:


> So first impressions are:
> 
> - case is a little bit flimsy. Not sure how the hinge will hold up
> - touch controls work 80% of the time, one too many commands to remember
> ...



thank you for the review. may i know which other TW earphones that you tried before the senns? 



klyzon said:


> I actually return the senn in favor of my earins m2



what are the considerations that made you kept the earin instead of the senn? i also have the M2 and really like it


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## kiwikozo (Nov 22, 2018)

SomeGuyDude said:


> You'll see that a lot in the TW that do the "fifteen minutes gives you an hour and a half" thing. It'll spike up hard really quickly but then stabilize a good chunk lower than that. The MW07 will go from a warning beep to 100% in like ten minutes but ten minutes after that it's at 60% and drains normally from there.



Ah right. Well after letting them charge to green I found the right bud drops at around 22% battery per hour at 70-75% volume which is loud. Left bud has between 10-15% more battery at the end.


----------



## vladzakhar

In my case, the main reason I prefer M2s over other TW earphones is the form factor: they even small enough to sleep wearing them comfortably.
And they sound great. I still love them after 3 months of heavy usage.
Bought MW07 and returned them next day. Too bulky and the battery drains dead after 2.5 hours.
Senns look even bulkier then MW07. I might try them, though, when they will be available to pickup in Best buy.


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## SomeGuyDude

I can't imagine calling any of these things bulky.

I'm picturing a bunch of people throwing a hissy fit because their silverware at a restaurant is too heavy.


----------



## chinmie

vladzakhar said:


> In my case, the main reason I prefer M2s over other TW earphones is the form factor: they even small enough to sleep wearing them comfortably.
> And they sound great. I still love them after 3 months of heavy usage.
> Bought MW07 and returned them next day. Too bulky and the battery drains dead after 2.5 hours.
> Senns look even bulkier then MW07. I might try them, though, when they will be available to pickup in Best buy.



if size is not a factor, based on sound alone, how do you rate the MW07, Senn, and the M2? 




SomeGuyDude said:


> I can't imagine calling any of these things bulky.
> 
> I'm picturing a bunch of people throwing a hissy fit because their silverware at a restaurant is too heavy.



yes, but compared to the Earin which is basically flat with the ears, the others do would be considered bulkier  the M2 can be used for sleeping with the ears pressing to the pillow with no problem, and people won't notice us wearing them even glancing directly at the ears..which..i know would sometimes poses as a new problem when people talk to us and we don't listen. with bigger TWs people would understand more because they see we're using something on our ears


----------



## Rickyearl

Neiman Marcus has the Senn MTWs on backorder if you can wait until early December for $250+tax shipped with code “THANKFUL.”  

Just ordered. Anyone compared them to the E8?  It’s interesting how much the look like the grey E8 and how close the touch controls and and a few other things are. I guess that’s kind of because they’re both pretty standard rather than being design-oriented like the MW07.


----------



## michaeljefford

n20nine said:


> So first impressions are:
> 
> - case is a little bit flimsy. Not sure how the hinge will hold up
> - touch controls work 80% of the time, one too many commands to remember
> ...



What 3rd party tips would you recommend?


----------



## Tranman409

Rickyearl said:


> Neiman Marcus has the Senn MTWs on backorder if you can wait until early December for $250+tax shipped with code “THANKFUL.”
> 
> Just ordered. Anyone compared them to the E8?  It’s interesting how much the look like the grey E8 and how close the touch controls and and a few other things are. I guess that’s kind of because they’re both pretty standard rather than being design-oriented like the MW07.




thanks! ordered this


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## Riaz78 (Nov 23, 2018)

Hey all

I got the Sennheiser Momentum True Wireless (MTW) last night. I pre-ordered them a few weeks ago.

I charged them up for 30ish mins and paired them with my Samsung Note 9. They paired fairly quickly.

I went into the Android developer menu to confirm that I had APTX connectivity. The phone is not rooted.

Next up I went on to Spotify (I have premium sub and all my songs are downloaded using the very quality setting) and played a couple of tracks.

My immediate impression was that these a freakin amazing! The sound quality, the energy, the sound stage just all amazing and well worth the money.

I have the Sennheiser momentum free and also the Sony WI-1000x for in-ear comparison.

These little things produce a big sound. They really hold their own. I am very impressed.

However......

This morning they were unusable. 

I am typing this on my (late) morning commute on the London underground. There are over 20 Bluetooth devices around right now and these MTWs will not connect to each other. I think there is too much interference. Last night I took them out of the case and they connected to each other and then connected to my phone without any problems. I had a handful of Bluetooth devices active around the house at the time but this didn't seem to cause any problems.

This morning I tried desperately to re-pair, re-connect these MTWs to no avail.

I have had to bring out my Sennheiser Momentum Free's. They connected immediately to my phone (as always). They sound a little weak compared to the MTW now 

I was hoping to use MTWs on my dialy commute but this is not looking hopeful at the moment.

Shame as I was looking forward to an amazing music session on this morning's commute.

Any ideas on how I can get it working for my evening commute?

Cheers
Riaz


UPDATE... 

GOOD NEWS ALL!

On my evening commute I decided to unpair them and then pair them again and they paired very quickly on my Note 9. Phew!

For the next 45 mins on a busy London (central line) tube I had an amazing musical experience. No connection drop outs or issues.

They fit quite well and I didn't feel that they would drop out.

I like them and the music output.

Definitely worth purchasing. 

Cheers
Riaz


----------



## n20nine

michaeljefford said:


> For reference, I am an avid user of Bluetooth Over Ear Headphones, and as such this is the first pair of true wireless I've owned.
> 
> I'm coming from the PX, XM3, QC35i, Momentum Over Ear.
> 
> ...



I too used to have the QC35 and the PX and had the XM2. Currently have the BeatsX and WI-1000x. For a TWS, i'm impressed with the sound quality. Hope B&W will get into this space soon.



chinmie said:


> thank you for the review. may i know which other TW earphones that you tried before the senns?



So I Have tried the WF-1000x, a couple of chinese ones, some on kickstarters, ear-ins etc. 



michaeljefford said:


> What 3rd party tips would you recommend?



Probably will go Comply.



Riaz78 said:


> Hey all
> 
> I got the Sennheiser Momentum True Wireless (MTW) last night. I pre-ordered them a few weeks ago.
> 
> ...



That's a shame mate. I was really worried about this but I tried it on the tube today (Bakerloo & Jubilee lines) and had absolutely no issues. Do report back - maybe a reset on your end will help? Can do it via the app.


On another note, it is really important to get a good fit with the eartips otherwise they may drop out as you walk or climb up/down staircases.

Really itching to get the MW07 to compare them. Anyone with a MW07 also received the Senn's?


----------



## n20nine

Also, I find that to find a good fit is not easy. Sometimes the units tend to slip out of my ears and sometimes I feel that I have a poor seal, making it hard to get good bass.


----------



## alchemical

Would also love a Senns vs MW07 comparison if anyone’s in a position to.


----------



## korefuji

Still waiting for my senn's to arrive, should be here today, I probably could have picked them up quicker to be honest, than have them delivered, as it's only the next town. I loved the MW07's, I just didn't enjoy the battery life, so I will see how the senn's compare. I can't provide anything audiophile like in description, but I'll do my best.


----------



## korefuji

n20nine said:


> Probably will go Comply.



Were you able to locate the recommended tips, the True Grip Pro, from the UK? I couldn't locate any, so I ordered from Comply directly, they haven't shipped yet, this was 2 days ago, so I got an email saying they aren't shipping until after November 26th due to the holidays. So I probably won't get my tips before December


----------



## n20nine

korefuji said:


> Still waiting for my senn's to arrive, should be here today, I probably could have picked them up quicker to be honest, than have them delivered, as it's only the next town. I loved the MW07's, I just didn't enjoy the battery life, so I will see how the senn's compare. I can't provide anything audiophile like in description, but I'll do my best.



If you could post your comparison, that would be amazing as I am thinking of getting a pair to compare. For me, sound quality is priority.



korefuji said:


> Were you able to locate the recommended tips, the True Grip Pro, from the UK? I couldn't locate any, so I ordered from Comply directly, they haven't shipped yet, this was 2 days ago, so I got an email saying they aren't shipping until after November 26th due to the holidays. So I probably won't get my tips before December



No mate, I have yet to order them but looking to do so today.


----------



## webvan

If anyone's interested the Havit G1 are at 33€ today on Amazon.de - somewhat tempted after the good feedback here but since I already have the 65Ts..


----------



## korefuji

Jabra Elites 65t and Actives 65t are both on discount on Jabra website. FYI.


----------



## nc8000

webvan said:


> If anyone's interested the Havit G1 are at 33€ today on Amazon.de - somewhat tempted after the good feedback here but since I already have the 65Ts..



I would say that is an absolute steal


----------



## webreaper

Yeah, the 65Ts are £130 on Jabra.com (and £149 on Amazon). I'd be annoyed, but I'm almost certainly returning them next week anyway in favour of the Senns.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

alchemical said:


> Would also love a Senns vs MW07 comparison if anyone’s in a position to.



If the Magnolia near me will get the damn things in stock I am absolutely giving these two a head-to-head.


----------



## alchemical

korefuji said:


> Still waiting for my senn's to arrive, should be here today, I probably could have picked them up quicker to be honest, than have them delivered, as it's only the next town. I loved the MW07's, I just didn't enjoy the battery life, so I will see how the senn's compare. I can't provide anything audiophile like in description, but I'll do my best.


Any comparison is appreciated.


----------



## alchemical

SomeGuyDude said:


> If the Magnolia near me will get the damn things in stock I am absolutely giving these two a head-to-head.


Looking forward to it.


----------



## webvan

nc8000 said:


> I would say that is an absolute steal


Yeah and since I had something else to order on amazon.de I decided to pool the shipping costs and grab the Havits. Nice to have some backup and will try them for running as I've found the Jabras are not very good for that and quickly have low volume issues...


----------



## n20nine

Update: There is a slight hiss only on the right earpiece when you use the right earpiece only for phone calls. You can hear it when the other party has not spoken (picked this up during a few conference calls)

Referring to the Senn MTW


----------



## smaragd

Heard the Momentum TW at a fair today and was pleasantly surprised and impressed.
Very nice soundstage, solid but not blooming, well defined bass. Isolation was fine as well and the transparency mode worked well too.
Connection was stable too, even though a lot of exhibits around with lots of wireless and Bluetooth  devices. In the 20 or so minutes that I auditioned I never heard any interference. Too bad I could t try them in the real world passing through busy rail intersections, underground stations etc...
Pls share your thoughts and experience for those who already have theirs...


----------



## n20nine

The Senn's might go back: it is a struggle to get a good fit and when you're talking on the phone sometimes, they earbuds pop out. Now, there is a fault whereby everytime I put them in - it keeps saying Volume Min in a loop.


----------



## korefuji

n20nine said:


> The Senn's might go back: it is a struggle to get a good fit and when you're talking on the phone sometimes, they earbuds pop out. Now, there is a fault whereby everytime I put them in - it keeps saying Volume Min in a loop.



That's a shame, mine just arrived, and I've set them on charge. Are you trying the comply tips before you return them?


----------



## n20nine

korefuji said:


> That's a shame, mine just arrived, and I've set them on charge. Are you trying the comply tips before you return them?



Don't have them yet unfortunately. I might just try another Comply I have at home tonight. I am a bit insecure walking whilst using them as they can pop out anytime. Funny that for my left ear, it fits better but my right ear, its a huge struggle. I want to compare against the MW07's as I think with a slightly more conventional design, I may not have such issues. Do let me know your thoughts on the Senn's once you have tried them on.The sound is getting nicer as I have been using them throughout the day.


----------



## korefuji (Nov 23, 2018)

OK first impressions:

Smaller than I thought it would be, looked larger in the pics,  was worried about the case being too big, but it's smaller than the jabras case, or close enough. I found the jabra case too tall to be honest.

The buds themselves are chunky, but not morbidly so. I wish they  had a real matte coating to them like the Jabras or the MW07 on the handling bit, as it feels they coudl slip out of my fingers and roll away on to the floor. I'd say in terms of size they're on par with the Jabras, taller than the MW07 but he MW07 are wider, so it seems to even up.

Case, imo, is a touch on the odd side. NO idea how dirty the material may get, i expect it will come off after some wear and tear. Anyone know what the button on the case does? I pressed it and the light came on, I don't really know what that means.

I like how the buds drop into the case easily, with a satisfying click sound. I found the case on the MW07 to be comparatively less secure, as I wasn't sure if they were in properly. The Jabras were worse imo, as they just seemed to drop in, without security, so if I did drop the case I was worried they would roll out. I seem to have that fear a lot!

Pairing was a bit of a nuisance first time using them. I apired it, and it came up as LE Momentum TW, but I assume that was just the left bud? The Right bud didn't pair with the phone. I know this because when I turned my phone off I heard the click sound from my phone, not from the ear bud. I ended up taking the buds out and placing them on the desk, holding down both touch controls for 5 seconds, then pairing with the phone which seemed to have resolved the issue.

I've only used the current tips that came with the buds, and I find them mostly secure. If i shake my head vigorusly they do move a touch, and I am worried they may pop out, but they don't. So mostly a secure fit, but I would like an even better one.

I just played the first track I had on my phone, which was Matteo of Chinese Man. Just to test isolation. I had my homepod playing some music at 12% volume, which is audible.The isolation is pretty decent, better than the MW07 for my ears tbh. Much better seal than the Jabras too. Volume is very good, I could only feel the homepod playing music, through vibrations, not through my ears. At 50% volume I am impressed it maanged to isolate the sound of the music so well, since I tend to have most earbuds at 100%. Including the MW07. I fear if I crank the volume up to a 100% with the Senn's, it may cause some damage to my ears, so I've held off doing it, but I will in a bit, for science. At 50% it's loud enough frankly, Jabra's in comparison I felt were far far too quiet. I do worry though, a bit, about the volume, as they isolate and cover other sounds so well, that I keep getting paranoid someone is calling me, when they're not. My brother was calling for me, and I couldn't hear him, I know this because he came to my room and told me so! So isolationadn volume, very very good.

Bass is not amazing, compared to MW07, but still really decent. MW07's were the first bassy earbuds I had bought, and they really were thumpy with a good seal. The senn's are close, but not quite there. The EQ app allows for more bass, I haven't tinkered with it yet.

Treble is sharp and clear, clarity of the sound is the best I've had so far, with no muddiness. I am not surprised though, they're not audiophile ear buds, but they are certainly good.

Value wise, I have a sticking point with this. At £270, do these compete with the MW07? Yes, in fact for me, it bests the MW07 by quite a margin. However, are they worth the extra premium for what will likely be a short term popularity, as more manufacturers starting pumping out TWEs? I don't think so. Sennheiser are doing what Nvidia did, there isn't that much competition, though so they've cranked up the price. Ideally I would say £200 is a fair price, based on build quality, case, sound etc. close to £300 and you would be expecting a bit more especially with other earbuds bluetooth or twe that are out there, I guess you pay the premium because there's nothing else at this price that competes except the MW07s. A better app with more options for example, hopefully they improve that. I would say the same is true of the MW07's, I don't think any TWE is currently worth the asking price of 200+.

I did notice something, where I could hear the pulse of ears, or something similar to that. That was before I paired correctly however, so since pairing that "sound" has disappeared, perhaps it was the buds and not my pulse? Who knows.

Another thing I noticed was that even at 100% charge for both buds, the right bud was down by 3% after just the pairing! Not sure what's going on with that.

I am loving these earbuds though, and really enjoying the sound. I might try the other tips, as well as wait for my True Grip Pro comply's for an even more secure fit, and better isolation. I love to drown in music, and these buds have actually allowed me to do that.

Hope this information proves useful.

You're welcome to AMA.

EDIT: For the sake of science, I cranked it up to 100% volume, WOW! So loud, so so loud!


----------



## n20nine

korefuji said:


> OK first impressions:
> 
> Smaller than I thought it would be, looked larger in the pics,  was worried about the case being too big, but it's smaller than the jabras case, or close enough. I found the jabra case too tall to be honest.
> 
> ...



Glad to hear you're loving your unit! I have dropped my right earpiece twice now today. Don't want to return it so hopefully the Comply's help.


----------



## korefuji

thanks mate.

Yeah it's a shame if you had to return them because the tips don't fit you, but do what you must. But I have weird ears, so the jabras felt loose, MW07's were the second closest fit, and the senn's fit nigh on perfectly, and havent' come loose yet.


----------



## michaeljefford

I don't seem to have an issue with them falling out, which is quite ironic considering my sporadic use of in in-ears in the past, and them constantly not fitting correctly.

With the default ones installed (size medium) I get a snug fit, no amount of vigorous head movement moves them. My only complaint is the little bit of discomfort I get after 30 mins.

Have ordered those comply tips recommended, we'll see if that helps with comfort.


----------



## korefuji

so I tried the large tips with the senn's. They fit soooo well, unfortunately they don't isolate the noise, but they don't feel as loose as the medium tips. I'm hoping the comply tips will resolve the isolation and fit issue.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

B&o e8 for $200 at the old Best Buy. Worth a look.


----------



## rawrster

I bought the Jabra 65T active today. It's on sale at Amazon (as well as the Jabra website) and depending on your credit card you may get a discount as well (I got $15 off) so at that price, it was too good to pass up. There's a refurb on ebay for the same price however I do get a longer warranty when buying new. I figure this will be a safer choice as I can sell at minimal loss if it turns out to not fit well and isn't too expensive for gym and work usage. I'm hoping this will be similar or better sounding than the bose soundsport wireless I have already.


----------



## webreaper

Jabra.com had the 65ts for £130, so £20 cheaper than Amazon's discount. I paid £162 for mine a week ago. 

On the upside my Senns shipped from Germany today, so hopefully will arrive Mon/Tue, and I can return the Jabras.


----------



## Sharkhunter

I received my MW07 today.. it really feels and sounds premium.. OMG the fins design is a pure genius. E8 has spoiled me with touch controls. I wish MW07 had touch controls. 

I will be getting sennheiser delivered tomorrow. .Excited.


----------



## Dcell7 (Nov 23, 2018)

webvan said:


> If anyone's interested the Havit G1 are at 33€ today on Amazon.de - somewhat tempted after the good feedback here but since I already have the 65Ts..


Missed the deal  it is 50 euros now


----------



## nc8000

Dcell7 said:


> Missed the deal  it is 50 euros now



On the G1 ?
Yes that was a lightning deal that only lasted a few hours.


----------



## Dcell7 (Nov 23, 2018)

nc8000 said:


> On the G1 ?
> Yes that was a lightning deal that only lasted a few hours.



Yes, i forgot to add the quote to my previous post (corrected it now).  For 33 euro it would have been a great deal.


----------



## nc8000

Dcell7 said:


> Yes, i forgot to add the quote to my previous post (corrected it now).  For 33 euro it would have been a great deal.



My son got a set


----------



## Dcell7 (Nov 23, 2018)

nc8000 said:


> My son got a set



Somehow i missed the post otherwise i would have got one too


----------



## alee

My point of reference: I have been a fairly loyal B&O E8 user. Listening via an iPhone, so AAC, no AptX for me.

Tried the RHA TrueConnect - loved the sound, hated the ergonomics with a passion. And while others seem to love the case, I hated it -- it was heavy and over-engineered. RHA should have spent the money to make the RHA field upgradable. They should have spent the time to add sensors to know when the headphones have been removed from your ears. They should have thought through why triple tapping is the worst way to change volume. Wanted to love it - just couldn't.

And that takes us to today with the arrival of the Sennheiser Momentum True Wiireless (MTW). For those in the US, mine shipped from Sennheiser from Madison, WI and it arrived here in NYC via 3-day mail. The charging case is small. It's larger than the E8 case but still compact and light.The material will definitely not age well, but kudos for not over-engineering this into some heavy premium feeling object. Something small that I can shove in my pocket and won't weigh me down.

The earpieces - surprisingly light. They don't weigh down in your ear at all - and in fact, are light enough to forget they're there. This is a good thing. Sure it sticks out, noticeably so vs the E8, but it's extremely comfortable.

The sound - V-shaped is pretty much the best description so far, but with a really beautiful wide presentation. Definitely not for the bass seekers, but it's definitely there. A little big of sibilance on the highs, but I expect most of this to mellow out over the next few weeks. Switched to Comply tips after a few listens with the tips that came with it. Good news - the Comply tips don't interfere with putting the earpieces back in the case. I love the sound even more with the Comply tips - easily besting the E8. I may finally have the successor to the E8.

Still early in the game, but really like what I hear so far, and it seems like it's going to be easy to live with and use as long as you remember the left earpiece controls music.


----------



## korefuji

alee said:


> My point of reference: I have been a fairly loyal B&O E8 user. Listening via an iPhone, so AAC, no AptX for me.
> 
> Tried the RHA TrueConnect - loved the sound, hated the ergonomics with a passion. And while others seem to love the case, I hated it -- it was heavy and over-engineered. RHA should have spent the money to make the RHA field upgradable. They should have spent the time to add sensors to know when the headphones have been removed from your ears. They should have thought through why triple tapping is the worst way to change volume. Wanted to love it - just couldn't.
> 
> ...



Which comply tips did you use if I may ask, and do they still fit in the case, or do you have to take the tips off? I only have the truly wireless comply tips in possession, and another set, which I can't find, plus some other aftermarkets, but curious to know what you used.

Thanks


----------



## alee

korefuji said:


> Which comply tips did you use if I may ask, and do they still fit in the case, or do you have to take the tips off? I only have the truly wireless comply tips in possession, and another set, which I can't find, plus some other aftermarkets, but curious to know what you used.


The TX200 - same ones I use on the E8 work perfectly, and they fit perfectly in the case, allowing the earpieces to charge without a problem.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B002ODUEDO/


----------



## korefuji

alee said:


> The TX200 - same ones I use on the E8 work perfectly, and they fit perfectly in the case, allowing the earpieces to charge without a problem.
> https://www.amazon.com/dp/B002ODUEDO/



Ack, I wonder if I can cancel the True Grip Pro as suggested by Comply themselves. Thank you.


----------



## alee

korefuji said:


> Ack, I wonder if I can cancel the True Grip Pro as suggested by Comply themselves. Thank you.


I'm sure others will fit if they're suggesting it. I just happen to have a bunch for my E8 and gave it a shot.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

This is all just reinforcing how much I wish VModa would make a dang set...


----------



## n20nine

korefuji said:


> Ack, I wonder if I can cancel the True Grip Pro as suggested by Comply themselves. Thank you.


So I tried the TX-200 which I have bought for my Sony WI-1000x. Whilst they are wayyyy more comfortable than the standard tips and give a good seal, I felt the sound quality drop a little. Not sure if I’m hallucinating?


----------



## webvan

I'm not surprised, each time I try to go back to my spare Comply Tsx-200 for better isolation I noticed a "muffled" sound, regardless of the earbuds. The Tsx-200 (olive shaped) are supposed to modify the sound less than the "isolation" (T/Tx) version though.


----------



## korefuji

Well truly wireless don't fit, and I can't find my other set. Guess I'll stick with the order, wont' get them for like 2-3 weeks though.


----------



## alee

n20nine said:


> So I tried the TX-200 which I have bought for my Sony WI-1000x. Whilst they are wayyyy more comfortable than the standard tips and give a good seal, I felt the sound quality drop a little. Not sure if I’m hallucinating?


Not unusual for foam tips to change the sound signature.


----------



## howdy

For those lucky ones who have both MW07 and Sennheiser TW which are more comfortable. I'm sure both sound great.


----------



## klyzon

korefuji said:


> What didn't you like about the Senn's, in comparison out of curiosity?
> 
> I didn't know about the Earin's until you posted so I duckduckgo'd and found they look rather interesting



I like the sound of the earin m2 slightly, helps a lot also with its compact size and fuss free usage


----------



## klyzon

korefuji said:


> What didn't you like about the Senn's, in comparison out of curiosity?
> 
> I didn't know about the Earin's until you posted so I duckduckgo'd and found they look rather interesting



just prefer the sound of the earin's slightly, and its size


----------



## SomeGuyDude

Comply softens the treble a bit and that's going to make it sound like a "loss of quality/clarity."


----------



## smaragd

Can we have a few more “outdoor / busy commute use” feedback for the Sennheisers? TW earbuds are notoriously sensitive to interference and wonder how immune the Sennheisers are.


----------



## Napilopez

howdy said:


> For those lucky ones who have both MW07 and Sennheiser TW which are more comfortable. I'm sure both sound great.



I have both. The Senns are easily more comfortable for me, but I can see the MW07 being better for smaller ears. For me though, I'm constantly adjusing the master and Dynamics.


----------



## willryan042

howdy said:


> For those lucky ones who have both MW07 and Sennheiser TW which are more comfortable. I'm sure both sound great.



I'm still waiting for my Senn's but the MW07 really start hurting my ears after 20-30 minutes, not sure how I haven't really seen this mentioned by anyone else in here.

The fin feature is... great at first glance at least. They fit super securely but because they're basically wedged in and pushing out against your ear, it becomes painful fairly quickly. I've only tried with the standard fins because I think the other included set are bigger (which I imagine would be worse but maybe I should check). 

I can deal with meh battery life but there's no way these can be my go-to's if they start hurting after half an hour. Really a bummer because everything else about them is excellent.


----------



## howdy

That's one good thing about the few brands that are made to go outside of the ear. The Sony WF1000 where my most comfortable pair so far. I keep leaning towards the Senns but open to anything with some great bass and volume. 
My E8s are still my favorite and still enjoy my Jaybird Runs for the gym and anything that includes sweating.


----------



## Napilopez

willryan042 said:


> I'm still waiting for my Senn's but the MW07 really start hurting my ears after 20-30 minutes, not sure how I haven't really seen this mentioned by anyone else in here.
> 
> The fin feature is... great at first glance at least. They fit super securely but because they're basically wedged in and pushing out against your ear, it becomes painful fairly quickly. I've only tried with the standard fins because I think the other included set are bigger (which I imagine would be worse but maybe I should check).
> 
> I can deal with meh battery life but there's no way these can be my go-to's if they start hurting after half an hour. Really a bummer because everything else about them is excellent.



Yeah for me the problem with the final is that they keep them in place, but also make it difficult to get a deeper insertion, complicated by the short nozzle. Once I put in the Senns I can just forget about them.


----------



## albau

willryan042 said:


> I'm still waiting for my Senn's but the MW07 really start hurting my ears after 20-30 minutes, not sure how I haven't really seen this mentioned by anyone else in here.
> 
> The fin feature is... great at first glance at least. They fit super securely but because they're basically wedged in and pushing out against your ear, it becomes painful fairly quickly. I've only tried with the standard fins because I think the other included set are bigger (which I imagine would be worse but maybe I should check).
> 
> I can deal with meh battery life but there's no way these can be my go-to's if they start hurting after half an hour. Really a bummer because everything else about them is excellent.


Human ears are so different! I just wore my mw07 straight for more than 2 hours with no discomfort. And that’s with large fins and XL ear tips! But I have big and rather soft ears.


----------



## assassin10000

Stopped by the Bose store and tried out the SoundSport Free True Wireless. Given prior reviews saying they were excellent, I think the ones I tried have been damaged by loud volume for significant amounts of time (or who knows what else). The bass and mid-bass sounded terrible and washed out a lot of the vocals sound.

Fit felt ok, but I didn't headbang in the store to see how well they stayed in place. As noted prior, poor isolation which would be good if you need spacial awareness.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

I must be a mutant because I frequently deadass forget the MW07 is in my ears.

However, I'm in such a damn pickle with the things. I love the sound, enough so that I like just lying around listening to music with them, but the battery anxiety is getting to me.


----------



## kiwikozo

I really like my sennheisers TW so far. I prefer silicone tips to comply, and the medium ones fit perfectly in my ear. 

Sound quality has surpassed my expectations. Just getting used to the touch gestures. Swipe left/right / up/down would've been so much better with a single 1 second tap for pause/play.

The long press volume controls are ridiculous.


----------



## howdy

kiwikozo said:


> I really like my sennheisers TW so far. I prefer silicone tips to comply, and the medium ones fit perfectly in my ear.
> 
> Sound quality has surpassed my expectations. Just getting used to the touch gestures. Swipe left/right / up/down would've been so much better with a single 1 second tap for pause/play.
> 
> The long press volume controls are ridiculous.


That's how they are on the B&O E8 and I've gotten used to it and it's easy once muscle memory kicks in.


----------



## alee

kiwikozo said:


> The long press volume controls are ridiculous.


Swiping would be better, but the long press is WAY better than what RHA wanted you to do... 3 taps on the left to lower, 3 taps on the right to raise.


----------



## webreaper

alee said:


> Swiping would be better, but the long press is WAY better than what RHA wanted you to do... 3 taps on the left to lower, 3 taps on the right to raise.


That's ridiculous - if you want to increase the volume more than a single 'notch' you'll give yourself a headache!

Luckily, I almost never adjust the volume other than on my phone (even with my PlusSound I never used the controls on it) so it's all slightly arbitrary. The only 'on-bud' control I'll ever use is to pause, and/or toggle the 'hear through' mode - which I believe is a single tap for the Senns (on the Jabras it's single or double-tap).


----------



## Thesonofkrypton

SomeGuyDude said:


> This is all just reinforcing how much I wish VModa would make a dang set...



I hope they do too! Love the ZN and M100 sound, if they can reproduce that on a truly wireless set, I'm all in.


----------



## Thesonofkrypton

Anyone have the Senns and the Sony wf-1000x and can comment on the SQ differences and similarities between them? Thanks


----------



## joshnor713

Thesonofkrypton said:


> Anyone have the Senns and the Sony wf-1000x and can comment on the SQ differences and similarities between them? Thanks



I have the WF-1000X and am supposed to get my Senns today. I'll comment back after I give the new pair a fair shake. Am excited about this comparison, have a feeling it'll be neck-and-neck!


----------



## Thesonofkrypton

joshnor713 said:


> I have the WF-1000X and am supposed to get my Senns today. I'll comment back after I give the new pair a fair shake. Am excited about this comparison, have a feeling it'll be neck-and-neck!



Not heard anything close to the Sony sound quality yet so would be interested in your views.  Wanted to love the RHA so much but wasn't for me.


----------



## willryan042

Okay the Senn's absolutely rule. Definitely preferring them to the MW07s. Much more comfortable. I'm no true audiophile so I can't get into specifics surrounding SQ, but they sound awesome (not to slight the MW07 though, they sound great too).

Bass is definitely there. To anyone who says otherwise, I'd say try different tips (or you're a massive basshead expecting too much from earbuds). Limit to Your Love by James Blake is always my go-to bass test and it made my head rattle. 

We'll see how battery life fairs but I'm expecting it to be better than the MW07. Also curious to see if the fit stays secure at the gym once some sweat gets introduced to the equation.


----------



## sardinemaster

willryan042 said:


> Okay the Senn's absolutely rule. Definitely preferring them to the MW07s. Much more comfortable. I'm no true audiophile so I can't get into specifics surrounding SQ, but they sound awesome (not to slight the MW07 though, they sound great too).
> 
> Bass is definitely there. To anyone who says otherwise, I'd say try different tips (or you're a massive basshead expecting too much from earbuds). Limit to Your Love by James Blake is always my go-to bass test and it made my head rattle.
> 
> We'll see how battery life fairs but I'm expecting it to be better than the MW07. Also curious to see if the fit stays secure at the gym once some sweat gets introduced to the equation.



Sounds promising!
Please report back on battery life and how they behave themselves in the gym.
Also, could you comment on the microphone quality for calls?

Thanks in advance.


----------



## BobJS

Just got the MW07 yesterday and charged them overnight.  I've been listening about a half hour and have to admit they sound a bit better than the jabra active elite 65t.  But not enough to care that much if I'm walking, exercising or outdoors, etc.

They are comfortable for me and fit well, though the overall ergonomics of the case, charging, and use are not as appealing to me as the jabras.  There's also the price difference.  And I haven't directly A/B'd them yet.  This is just my first impression, but if someone had let me try their MW07 and Jabra before purchase, considering their use, I would have gone with the Jabra.  This opinion is subject to change .....

I don't need another pair of true wireless, but I'll wait a bit while the Senn TW reviews come in before I consider those.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

willryan042 said:


> Okay the Senn's absolutely rule. Definitely preferring them to the MW07s. Much more comfortable. I'm no true audiophile so I can't get into specifics surrounding SQ, but they sound awesome (not to slight the MW07 though, they sound great too).
> 
> Bass is definitely there. To anyone who says otherwise, I'd say try different tips (or you're a massive basshead expecting too much from earbuds). Limit to Your Love by James Blake is always my go-to bass test and it made my head rattle.
> 
> We'll see how battery life fairs but I'm expecting it to be better than the MW07. Also curious to see if the fit stays secure at the gym once some sweat gets introduced to the equation.



That's what I needed.


----------



## n20nine

Ok so I’m having big issues with my Senn’s:

1. The units don’t stop playing music even after putting them back in the case
2. The left pair drains battery more. By 20% average. 
3. The case does not charge my earphones and will only do so after I briefly connect them to a power source. 

Thoroughly disappointed!


----------



## korefuji (Nov 24, 2018)

n20nine said:


> Ok so I’m having big issues with my Senn’s:
> 
> 1. The units don’t stop playing music even after putting them back in the case
> 2. The left pair drains battery more. By 20% average.
> ...


ouch, sorry to read that.

Only issue I have is 2.

EDIT: I was wondering as you're only one of two people in this thread that have relevant comply tips, are they cause blocking of the signal for recharging and and not stopping the music playing? Just curious, have you tried with the silicon tips only?


----------



## kiwikozo (Nov 24, 2018)

My Sennheiser TW left earbud drains at least 30% less than the right. But the recharge time is quite fast. Right earbud takes 15 minutes to get to 50% at least. Usually around 60 after a 15m charge. I get 4h battery life at 75% volume.


----------



## clerkpalmer

kiwikozo said:


> My Sennheiser TW left earbud drains at least 30% more than the right. But the recharge time is quite fast. Right earbud takes 15 minutes to get to 50% at least. Usually around 60 after a 15m charge. I get 4h battery life at 75% volume.


I hope they fix this bug. Several have reported this.


----------



## nc8000 (Nov 25, 2018)

I have now exclusively used the Havit G1 for 2 weeks after having had the Beoplay E8 for over a year since the day they were released. Have not tried any other true wireless iem’s.

Build quality seems to be about a draw although I wont really know how the G1 stand up until having used them for a year. G1 is ipx5 whereas E8 is unrated but described as splash proof.

Battery life on a charge is about equal at roughly 4 hours but the G1 case holds more charges than the E8 case. The G1 case is smaller but more square.

Fit and comfort are fine for me on both but the G1 is probably more secure with vigorous activity due to the finns.

Mic and call quality is about equal and not stellar but good enough for my use. The G1 only does calls in the right ear but E8 in both.

I much prefer the touch control on the E8 ti the single button on the G1. Can’t do volume on the G1.

I miss the transparency mode on the G1 that the E8 has.

Isolation is about equal but with the E8 marginally better.

The G1 connection is rock solid, have not had a single drop out in 2 weeks. E8 has random very short left unit drop outs though not enough to really bother me. G1 is bt5, E8 is bt42.

There is no app or fw update for the G1.

The E8 probably has the slightly better SQ but in normal ambient noise environment I don’t really notice any difference. Both are good enough for me out and about.

No noticeable video lag on either.

All this using an iPhone 8 with on board 320kb aac music files, YouTube videos and iTunes movies.

The E8 cost about 4 times as much.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

kiwikozo said:


> My Sennheiser TW left earbud drains at least 30% more than the right. But the recharge time is quite fast. Right earbud takes 15 minutes to get to 50% at least. Usually around 60 after a 15m charge. I get 4h battery life at 75% volume.



That's still... alarming. So after 4h that's when the left starts dying?


----------



## Churchill Wu (Nov 24, 2018)

Apologies this video isn't in English. Cambridge Audio just debuted their true wireless earbuds at a Hong Kong audio fair this past weekend, called "Melomania 1". Literally could not find any other information online as this is the first time they're showing them off anywhere. You can see shots of the earbuds starting at 1:23, and a list of specs/features if you pause at 2:16.

Bluetooth 5.0, AptX and AptX low latency, IPX5, and here's the big one - 6hrs per charge for the earbuds and 50hrs of extra charge from the case!!! Guy claims they used a new chipset that lowers power consumption by 50%.

He says they will retail for GBP130 but no mention of when they will hit the shelves. Is anybody familiar with the brand Cambridge Audio at all??


----------



## SomeGuyDude

AFAIK Cambridge was always more into the amp/preamp/DAC side of things. I've never heard of them making headphones. Very well respected brand but I have no idea what to expect here...


----------



## korefuji

Churchill Wu said:


> Apologies this video isn't in English. Cambridge Audio just debuted their true wireless earbuds at a Hong Kong audio fair this past weekend, called "Melomania 1". Literally could not find any other information online as this is the first time they're showing them off anywhere. You can see shots of the earbuds starting at 1:23, and a list of specs/features if you pause at 2:16.
> 
> Bluetooth 5.0, AptX and AptX low latency, IPX5, and here's the big one - 6hrs per charge for the earbuds and 50hrs of extra charge from the case!!! Guy claims they used a new chipset that lowers power consumption by 50%.
> 
> He says they will retail for GBP130 but no mention of when they will hit the shelves. Is anybody familiar with the brand Cambridge Audio at all??




I only know them from their PC speaker components, they're decent, and their prices vary widely. They mostly do hifi audio equipment, so I'm not surprised they're jumping in.

RE: The Senn's I just noticed that I've had to charge the left buds twice, at first it was at 87% and now it was a t 96% so Im charging them again, ther'es obviously an issue there. Going to report this to Sennheiser.


----------



## kiwikozo

clerkpalmer said:


> I hope they fix this bug. Several have reported this.




Edited* I meant the right drains faster. I don't know if they could fix it if the right is the primary.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

korefuji said:


> I only know them from their PC speaker components, they're decent, and their prices vary widely. They mostly do hifi audio equipment, so I'm not surprised they're jumping in.
> 
> RE: The Senn's I just noticed that I've had to charge the left buds twice, at first it was at 87% and now it was a t 96% so Im charging them again, ther'es obviously an issue there. Going to report this to Sennheiser.



Man this left/right thing really isn't that confidence inspiring.


----------



## Dave1480

Received the Sennheiser TW's a couple of days ago and have noticed a couple of issues compared to my Jabra 65T's.

Unlike the Jabra's the Senn's can only connect to one device at at time which means I have to continually unpair and repair when moving from my iPhone to my iPad. I loved the fact I could just pop the Jabra's in and out and they would instantly connect to whichever of the two i was using regardless of which one was used last.

I've also noticed the issue with the left earbud discharging much faster than the right, sometimes as much as 20% difference. I haven't run both earbuds fully down though so don't know if this is just a glitch with the app regarding displaying the remaining charge. 

On the positive side though these buds sound amazing in my opinion, much better than the Jabra's. They're clearer, have a wider soundstage and the bass thumps. They also fit well and are comfortable to use through long listening sessions. No lag when watching videos either.

Hopefully Sennheiser can correct the flaws I mentioned via firmware updates to make these a truly outstanding product.


----------



## webreaper

Has anyone tested whether the faster-draining side on the Senns is the thing that governs the overall battery life? i.e., if the left earbud last 3.5-4 hours, but the right lasts 5, then it's probably not an issue...


----------



## korefuji

I believe the right side is master, and left is slave - if that's what you mean.


----------



## webreaper

Whichever drains fastest, was my point. If that one lasts for 3.5-4 hours, it probably doesn't matter. Although if that's the slave it's unlikely.


----------



## korefuji

I may have got them confused, as the left bud controls play functions, and the right just does the voice calls and virtual assistant. That would make more sense I imagine


----------



## SomeGuyDude

webreaper said:


> Has anyone tested whether the faster-draining side on the Senns is the thing that governs the overall battery life? i.e., if the left earbud last 3.5-4 hours, but the right lasts 5, then it's probably not an issue...



Er... how wouldn't it? I'm confused by the question. What is there to test here?


----------



## nc8000

SomeGuyDude said:


> Er... how wouldn't it? I'm confused by the question. What is there to test here?



If it is the master or the slave bud that drains the faster.

On the E8 there is a bigger battery in the master than the slave to counter the higher power consumption of the master


----------



## SomeGuyDude

nc8000 said:


> If it is the master or the slave bud that drains the faster.
> 
> On the E8 there is a bigger battery in the master than the slave to counter the higher power consumption of the master



I'm saying it doesn't matter because if after 4 hours one of the sides is dead. It doesn't matter which one unless you need an extra half hour with one earbud for some reason.


----------



## nc8000

SomeGuyDude said:


> I'm saying it doesn't matter because if after 4 hours one of the sides is dead. It doesn't matter which one unless you need an extra half hour with one earbud for some reason.



No you are right what matters is how long the shortest lasting bud lasts


----------



## webreaper

nc8000 said:


> No you are right what matters is how long the shortest lasting bud lasts


Which was exactly my point. The quoted time is 4 hours. If that's for the master, it's fine. If that's for the slave, and the master drains even quicker, then it's less fine.


----------



## alee

On my Sennheiser MTW, the right (master) drains slightly faster than than the left (slave) on mine. This shouldn’t be too much of a surprise given the right side has the microphone and the BT radio. I believe the left side is NFMI. I haven’t had a chance to do a full rundown, but I can say 4 hrs is probably the most you’ll get. 

Staring at battery percentages is pointless though. Content, volume, radio interference, etc. all contribute to your battery life. Keep listening until they quit. If they quit before you want them to, they’re probably not the ones for you. For what I need these for, these are spectacular sounding buds, and ones I’m happy to retire my B&O E8s for.


----------



## james444

nc8000 said:


> I have now exclusively used the Havit G1 for 2 weeks after having had the Beoplay E8 for over a year since the day they were released. Have not tried any other true wireless iem’s.
> 
> Build quality seems to be about a draw although I wont really know how the G1 stand up until having used them for a year. G1 is ipx5 whereas E8 is unrated but described as splash proof.
> 
> ...



I concur with your impressions. I bought a Havit G1 based on your recommendation and think they're only slightly inferior to the Earin M-2 and Sennheiser Momentum TW. In ambient noise environment, the difference is almost negligible imo. Overall, these are very good bang for the buck.

Here's a DF-compensated measurement of the Havit G1 on my miniDSP Ears rig. The bass range is up to 10dB stronger than the mids, which makes them sound a bit boomy at home, but isn't that bad for noisy environment. Treble has a spike around 10kHz, which makes them sound slightly sharp or sizzly with some stuff (red graph). However, this can easily be improved with a 3M-micropore or teabag filter in front of the nozzle (green graph):


----------



## dweaver

joshnor713 said:


> I have the WF-1000X and am supposed to get my Senns today. I'll comment back after I give the new pair a fair shake. Am excited about this comparison, have a feeling it'll be neck-and-neck!


so how do the 2 pairs compare? Have to say I am very tempted to get a pair of the Senns...


----------



## joshnor713

dweaver said:


> so how do the 2 pairs compare? Have to say I am very tempted to get a pair of the Senns...



Haven't gotten the Senn's yet, shipping delay


----------



## SomeGuyDude

webreaper said:


> Which was exactly my point. The quoted time is 4 hours. If that's for the master, it's fine. If that's for the slave, and the master drains even quicker, then it's less fine.



I can say with confidence that the time given isn't counting time sitting with only one functioning earbud.


----------



## chinmie

james444 said:


> I concur with your impressions. I bought a Havit G1 based on your recommendation and think they're only slightly inferior to the Earin M-2 and Sennheiser Momentum TW. In ambient noise environment, the difference is almost negligible imo. Overall, these are very good bang for the buck.
> 
> Here's a DF-compensated measurement of the Havit G1 on my miniDSP Ears rig. The bass range is up to 10dB stronger than the mids, which makes them sound a bit boomy at home, but isn't that bad for noisy environment. Treble has a spike around 10kHz, which makes them sound slightly sharp or sizzly with some stuff (red graph). However, this can easily be improved with a 3M-micropore or teabag filter in front of the nozzle (green graph):



the only drawback from the havit g1 for me is the lack of hear through/ambient sound. i thought i didn't need this feature at first i use TWs, but now the more i use them the more i find that feature convenient


----------



## webvan

Very true, it's also a problem with the WF-1000x with their pretty inefectvive less "Ambient noise" feature compared to say the same feature on the Jabra 65T.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

Fun fact.

I tried yet another set of Jabras today with a completely different phone (Pixel 3). Result? _There's still a terrible left-side hiss.
_
At this point I absolutely refuse to believe they all don't have it. There is no way I've tried _five_ sets from Best Buys in multiple cities and just happened to get 5 out of 5 faulty sets. Not possible. I'd put down money everyone's has it but not everyone can hear it, because this is driving me absolutely insane. It's not some phantom thing, either, because the Jabra 65t (elite or active) is the only set I've heard with it. I'm aware of a touch of white noise on Bluetooth headsets. This isn't that. This is the left earbud making a distinct, audible hiss any time it's in "active" mode. Pause a song and it's there for a few seconds. That gap between songs? Hiss. Quiet section of a track? Hiss. 

I seriously want to meet up with someone who says theirs doesn't do it and listen to them. Just so I can understand What is happening.k


----------



## clerkpalmer

SomeGuyDude said:


> Fun fact.
> 
> I tried yet another set of Jabras today with a completely different phone (Pixel 3). Result? _There's still a terrible left-side hiss.
> _
> ...



Funnily enough this is exactly how I feel about the mw07 but I've only gone through 2 sets. Fwiw I do not notice hiss on my jabras. Noise floor seems very low. I feel like it HAS to be on all of them.


----------



## webvan

I definitely have that left side hiss (and imbalance) when the 65Ts are connected to my laptop but not to my Android phones (Lenovo P2 and Nokia 8), I must admit it's a bit hard to understand why...


----------



## clerkpalmer

webvan said:


> I definitely have that left side hiss (and imbalance) when the 65Ts are connected to my laptop but not to my Android phones (Lenovo P2 and Nokia 8), I must admit it's a bit hard to understand why...


 
On the mw07 I noticed the hiss got louder taking phone calls and then lowered for music. I wonder if it's an issue with the mic and gain settings.


----------



## webvan

Possibly...
As a side note the E8 are currently being sold directly by B&O for 188€ vs 299€ https://beoprime.com/beoplay-e8-kabelloser-bluetooth-in-ear-kopfhoerer-1005676?number=212082 - not sure if it's that good of a deal though compared to the competition ?


----------



## saketme

Bought my Sennheiser MTW and getting it shipped to India after reading the good reviews here. They aren't in stock anywhere except official Sennheiser stores. I bought mine from the San Francisco store. This is the highest ($322 incl. taxes) I've ever paid for any audio equipment. I'm hoping they'll be worth the money.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

webvan said:


> I definitely have that left side hiss (and imbalance) when the 65Ts are connected to my laptop but not to my Android phones (Lenovo P2 and Nokia 8), I must admit it's a bit hard to understand why...



Considering the phones I hooked them up to were a Galaxy S9+ and a Pixel 3, I have a hard time thinking it was a device issue. Unless somehow the newer phones are worse with them. Either way, I'm just done with the brand entirely. Which sucks because everything else about them is great. Comfortable, secure, light, sound good enough, and cheap as hell atm.


----------



## dweaver

Couldn't take it, ordered the Senns direct from Senneheiser Canada. Figured with 30 day return guarantee I couldn't go to far wrong if I dont like them.


----------



## willryan042

sardinemaster said:


> Sounds promising!
> Please report back on battery life and how they behave themselves in the gym.
> Also, could you comment on the microphone quality for calls?
> 
> Thanks in advance.



Update!

No complaints on battery life, although I haven't drained them in one sitting so I really can't say exactly how long it lasts.


*The bad:* 
*FIT:* I'm having minor issues with fit when using silicone tips – I either need to keep readjusting them or they'll slowly slip out. The small tips fit horribly and provide zero isolation, the large tips provide good isolation but pop out quicker, and the medium tips are so far the goldilocks of the bunch – but they occasionally still pop out. This is expectedly worse while working out and sweat gets introduced to the equation. It really started distracting me from my workout when I thought these were going to pop out onto a gross gym floor.

*TRANSPARENCY MODE:* anyone else having issues getting into transparency mode? It's super inconsistent for me, it might only work once out of 5-7 attempts. I've tried different types of double-tapping on the right bud, but it really shouldn't be this difficult.

*The good:*
Still sound excellent
Foam tips make for a much better fit
I have some foam tips that fit pretty well, and they're miles better than the silicone. The friction of the foam really helps keep them in place. I've also ordered the Comply TrueGrip tips so I can check those out as well.

No complaints when I tested a phone call with it, although I was inside in a completely quiet room. Curious how it'd fare outside or in a noisier environment.


----------



## 05stisilver

willryan042 said:


> Update!
> 
> No complaints on battery life, although I haven't drained them in one sitting so I really can't say exactly how long it lasts.
> 
> ...


----------



## willryan042

Yeah I _think _I followed the instructions correctly and am turning them. Are you turning them towards your back or towards your front?

How did you go about resetting them? I can give that a shot.


----------



## korefuji

willryan042 said:


> Yeah I _think _I followed the instructions correctly and am turning them. Are you turning them towards your back or towards your front?
> 
> How did you go about resetting them? I can give that a shot.


According to instructions insert and twist back reset for buds is in the app


----------



## 05stisilver

willryan042 said:


> Yeah I _think _I followed the instructions correctly and am turning them. Are you turning them towards your back or towards your front?
> 
> How did you go about resetting them? I can give that a shot.



Just as korefuji said.

I had a couple of other odd things happen today but I will comment on them if they continue to be a problem.


----------



## korefuji (Nov 25, 2018)

So I’m doing a test to see how long the buds last right now at hour one they’re at the following percentage:


----------



## alee

willryan042 said:


> How did you go about resetting them? I can give that a shot.


Here's how to reset the MTW


----------



## bronco1015

I've had mixed feelings about the MTWs since they were announced. When i'm at home, theres not a headphone I own that i'd rather listen to mor than my HD800S.  So if theres potentially a TW IEM that satisfies my sound preferences for when i'm out and about that would be my go to, to the point that i'd be content selling my TW1s and 65T's, i'd love that. On the other hand, I've never been a fan of the momentum sound. I read 2 reviews that i felt could be taken with at least a large grain of salt. Based on the wording in these reviews, and the mentions I've seen here of the EQ not being very robust, i'm worried i may not like these at all. But then i feel like the impressions in this thread make the headphones sound flatter and less boomy than the reviews make it sound. Which has really gotten me excited. The weird issues and observations people have shared, E.g. earbuds not charging at all, one dying faster than the other, etc give me some pause, but I've decided to take the plunge and give them a shot. Ordered from amazon because of their return policy, though i definitely hope i won't be returning them.


----------



## Napilopez (Nov 25, 2018)

bronco1015 said:


> I've had mixed feelings about the MTWs since they were announced. When i'm at home, theres not a headphone I own that i'd rather listen to mor than my HD800S.  So if theres potentially a TW IEM that satisfies my sound preferences for when i'm out and about that would be my go to, to the point that i'd be content selling my TW1s and 65T's, i'd love that. On the other hand, I've never been a fan of the momentum sound. I read 2 reviews that i felt could be taken with at least a large grain of salt. Based on the wording in these reviews, and the mentions I've seen here of the EQ not being very robust, i'm worried i may not like these at all. But then i feel like the impressions in this thread make the headphones sound flatter and less boomy than the reviews make it sound. Which has really gotten me excited. The weird issues and observations people have shared, E.g. earbuds not charging at all, one dying faster than the other, etc give me some pause, but I've decided to take the plunge and give them a shot. Ordered from amazon because of their return policy, though i definitely hope i won't be returning them.



I think the EQ is plenty robust. No, you can't adjust indiviudin frequency bands, but it can drastically affect the sound. Wan more of a V shape? You can do that. Want it more linear? You can do that. Want more bass and less treble? Fine. Or perhaps more treble and less bass? Doable. The nice thing is that it allows you to trim the mid-bass without killing the sub-bass, which is what I've done.

Honestly, I think it's more practical and intuitive than a traditional EQ, while being easier to understand for the mainstream. Barring any terrible narrow frequency spikes or dips, all I really care about is the overall shape of the frequency curve and the technical quality of the driver.


----------



## bronco1015

Napilopez said:


> I think the EQ is plenty robust. No, you can't adjust indiviudin frequency bands, but it can drastically affect the sound. Wan more of a V shape? You can do that. Want it more linear? You can do that. Want more bass and less treble? Fine. Or perhaps more treble and less bass? Doable. The nice thing is that it allows you to trim the mid-bass without killing the sub-bass, which is what I've done.
> 
> Honestly, I think it's more practical and intuitive than a traditional EQ, while being easier to understand for the mainstream. Barring any terrible narrow frequency spikes or dips, all I really care about is the overall shape of the frequency curve and the technical quality of the driver.


 Awesome! Your description of the EQ gives me hope i'll find a sound i like. Thanks for sharing your thoughts.


----------



## korefuji

My earbuds at the 3 hour mark I don’t tjink they’ll go four hours. This was at 75% volume


----------



## sardinemaster

Did you manage to get to 4 hours or did the right one not last that long?


----------



## BigAund (Nov 26, 2018)

Anyone having charging issues with the Senns? I used mine this morning for about 1.5hrs, placed them in the case, and when I came back to listen, they were dead. The case is showing as fully charged, green light, but the earphones are dead. Anyone had this? Looks like they might have to go back to Senn.

Looks like the right earbud is broken. Left one has power, nothign on the right.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

korefuji said:


> My earbuds at the 3 hour mark I don’t tjink they’ll go four hours. This was at 75% volume



I admit I'm not a mathemagician but if it's losing 25% per hour then that's a 4 hour battery life.


----------



## BigAund

Thanks for this. Solved my problem!



alee said:


> Here's how to reset the MTW


----------



## Burakk

Is there anybody who can give an idea call quality of rha true connect and Senn. Mtw? By the way, I couldn’t find any shop which has stock for senn. in The Netherlands.


----------



## n20nine

korefuji said:


> ouch, sorry to read that.
> 
> Only issue I have is 2.
> 
> EDIT: I was wondering as you're only one of two people in this thread that have relevant comply tips, are they cause blocking of the signal for recharging and and not stopping the music playing? Just curious, have you tried with the silicon tips only?



i want to think so but I have the same issues when using the silicon tips. btw, at selfridges yesterday, i saw the comply truly wireless foams but did not pick it up as a pack of 3 were £24.95 and I think they are the older versions. How is your MTW coming along?



dweaver said:


> so how do the 2 pairs compare? Have to say I am very tempted to get a pair of the Senns...



Senn's are much better - battery life and sound



webvan said:


> Very true, it's also a problem with the WF-1000x with their pretty inefectvive less "Ambient noise" feature compared to say the same feature on the Jabra 65T.



The noise cancelling of the Sony's are so low-level.



willryan042 said:


> Update!
> 
> No complaints on battery life, although I haven't drained them in one sitting so I really can't say exactly how long it lasts.
> 
> ...



I have the same observations as you too, esp around fit. With transparency mode, I don't really feel too much of a diffeerence.



BigAund said:


> Anyone having charging issues with the Senns? I used mine this morning for about 1.5hrs, placed them in the case, and when I came back to listen, they were dead. The case is showing as fully charged, green light, but the earphones are dead. Anyone had this? Looks like they might have to go back to Senn.
> 
> Looks like the right earbud is broken. Left one has power, nothign on the right.



Same issues I have been having. Have to connect them back to the charger briefly before they go back to normal.



BigAund said:


> Thanks for this. Solved my problem!



It will appear again. Multiple resets don't fix it.



Burakk said:


> Is there anybody who can give an idea call quality of rha true connect and Senn. Mtw? By the way, I couldn’t find any shop which has stock for senn. in The Netherlands.



So far so good.

On another note - torn if I should return them and get something else. Battery life isn't stellar, so many bugs esp around charging, buds going dead halfway etc.


----------



## webvan

Battery life, yes, although there appear to be some "bugs", but are you sure the SQ of the Sennheiser is "much better" than the WF-1000x ? The WF-1000x already provide an excellent experience and in spite of some extensive side by side comparisons using two Android phones I was hard pressed to pick a favorite between them and the 2xBA+2xDD TRN V80, and that was in the quiet of my office, so out and about or at the gym...


----------



## n20nine (Nov 26, 2018)

webvan said:


> Battery life, yes, although there appear to be some "bugs", but are you sure the SQ of the Sennheiser is "much better" than the WF-1000x ? The WF-1000x already provide an excellent experience and in spite of some extensive side by side comparisons using two Android phones I was hard pressed to pick a favorite between them and the 2xBA+2xDD TRN V80, and that was in the quiet of my office, so out and about or at the gym...



To my ears, yes.

Also, I tried the MW07 this weekend. The sound is not as good as the Sennheiser's. A bit muddy, esp the vocals and need to pump the volume up higher.... The fit though, is better.


----------



## webvan

Since you describe the differences between the MW07 and STW could you do the same between the WF-1000x and the Senn TW ?


----------



## firewatersun

willryan042 said:


> Update!
> 
> No complaints on battery life, although I haven't drained them in one sitting so I really can't say exactly how long it lasts.
> 
> ...



Same with Transparency, and sometimes with turning it back on too. I don't know why they didn't use the one-press for Transparency, I feel like I'd be using that alot more than launching Assistant. Hopefully it's fixed with a firmware update. Ideally I'd love to be able to customise/reassign the touch patterns.


----------



## willryan042

firewatersun said:


> Same with Transparency, and sometimes with turning it back on too. I don't know why they didn't use the one-press for Transparency, I feel like I'd be using that alot more than launching Assistant. Hopefully it's fixed with a firmware update. Ideally I'd love to be able to customise/reassign the touch patterns.



Yep, even after a reset it's still a little janky (but better than it was before). There's still a couple times where it doesn't activate or it activates Siri instead.

I'm with you though, customizing those gestures would be awesome but I'm not holding my breath.


----------



## n20nine

webvan said:


> Since you describe the differences between the MW07 and STW could you do the same between the WF-1000x and the Senn TW ?



The battery life definitely drops faster. Bluetooth connectivity is not as rock solid (i.e. some stutters, drop-outs). Also, the the details are not as good as you get on the Senn's. Soundstage too slightly narrower. Again, to my ears only. You might have a different experience.


----------



## korefuji

SomeGuyDude said:


> I admit I'm not a mathemagician but if it's losing 25% per hour then that's a 4 hour battery life.


Well it wasn't 4 hours on the head, it was close though about 3hrs 50mins which is pretty enough good for me.

I have written to sennheiser regarding these issues that people are reporting, I'm hoping they reply with an acknowledgement and look into it


----------



## webreaper

willryan042 said:


> I'm with you though, customizing those gestures would be awesome but I'm not holding my breath.


I wish there was a way to disable Alexa/Siri/GAssist on all of these 'phones (Jabra, Senn etc). Am I the only person who has literally no interest in using it or talking to my phone?


----------



## webvan (Nov 26, 2018)

n20nine said:


> The battery life definitely drops faster. Bluetooth connectivity is not as rock solid (i.e. some stutters, drop-outs). Also, the the details are not as good as you get on the Senn's. Soundstage too slightly narrower. Again, to my ears only. You might have a different experience.


Oh I didn't specify it again but I was referring to the SQ, no argument that the WF-1000xs are generally weak for battery life and BT in crowded environments, it's more on SQ that your comment had me intrigued since there's been a consensus that until recently they were the best in class. So based on your latest comments it doesn't sound that the Senn's SQ is "much better" than the WF-1000x after all  Like I said above based on my own testing, unless you do a side-by-side listening test with two devices playing the same music it's hard to come to any conclusions.


----------



## firewatersun

webvan said:


> Oh I didn't specify it again but I was referring to the SQ, no argument that the WF-1000xs are generally weak for battery life and BT in crowded environments, it's more on SQ that your comment had me intrigued since there's been a consensus that until recently they were the best in class. So based on your latest comments it doesn't sound that the Senn's SQ is "much better" than the WF-1000x after all  Like I said above based on my own testing, unless you do a side-by-side listening test with two devices playing the same music it's hard to come to any conclusions.



At least to me when I was searching reviews day and night for the best true wireless earbuds, it didn't seem like WF-1000X were considered best in class for SQ specifically, most reviews mention the MW07s holding that title. Even in the Gizmodo article, they mention the full 1000x range, but only think the MW07s are comparable in SQ.


----------



## Rickyearl

Anyone who has the e8 and the Senns - can you comment on size and shape of the actual IEMs?  They look really similar in pics.   Same question on the touch controls - are they also pretty much the same?

Mine won't be here for 2 weeks, and I can't wait.


----------



## webvan (Nov 26, 2018)

firewatersun said:


> At least to me when I was searching reviews day and night for the best true wireless earbuds, it didn't seem like WF-1000X were considered best in class for SQ specifically, most reviews mention the MW07s holding that title. Even in the Gizmodo article, they mention the full 1000x range, but only think the MW07s are comparable in SQ.



Your post is a bit confusing, what are the MW07 comparable in SQ to ? Besides the MW07 have been released rather recently


----------



## Rickyearl

webvan said:


> Your post is a bit confusing, what are the MW07 comparable in SQ to ? Besides the MW07 have been released rather recently


You post has confused me.


----------



## webvan

Sorry about that but that probably means you need to keep reading up a bit here and elsewhere then. As for the WF-1000x being considered as best in class in terms of SQ until RECENTLY here's a good read : https://www.whathifi.com/sony/wf-1000x/review


----------



## firewatersun

Rickyearl said:


> Anyone who has the e8 and the Senns - can you comment on size and shape of the actual IEMs?  They look really similar in pics.   Same question on the touch controls - are they also pretty much the same?
> 
> Mine won't be here for 2 weeks, and I can't wait.



I lost my e8s and the MTW was my replacement. While they seem visually roughly the same shape, the MTW fit me WAY better. e8s constantly needed adjustment and always fell out if knocked eg if I was putting on a jacket and it brushed. The MTW fit much better and snuggle in a little more.

That said, I imagine it's a very individual thing. Small-eared people are definitely going to have a problem, a couple of my friends can use it, but they stick out more, and one smaller eared individual can't get them to seat comfortably. Medium-Large ears seem fine.


----------



## Rickyearl

webvan said:


> Sorry about that but that probably means you need to keep reading up a bit here and elsewhere then. As for the WF-1000x being considered as best in class in terms of SQ until RECENTLY here's a good read : https://www.whathifi.com/sony/wf-1000x/review



I'm not sure what any of that has to do with a size/shape/controls comparison between e8 and the Senn TWM


----------



## Rickyearl

firewatersun said:


> I lost my e8s and the MTW was my replacement. While they seem visually roughly the same shape, the MTW fit me WAY better. e8s constantly needed adjustment and always fell out if knocked eg if I was putting on a jacket and it brushed. The MTW fit much better and snuggle in a little more.
> 
> That said, I imagine it's a very individual thing. Small-eared people are definitely going to have a problem, a couple of my friends can use it, but they stick out more, and one smaller eared individual can't get them to seat comfortably. Medium-Large ears seem fine.




Yeah, the MW07 are strange shaped, so it's hard to compare them.  They're actually not as "thick" front to back as the E8, but they're so much wider across and pretty much the same "height" in your ear.  They weigh a tiny bit less based on my unscientific method of holding them in my hand.

What I'm curious about is the E8 vs. Senn TWM - they look really close in size and shape.  And the controls seem nearly the same too.


----------



## firewatersun

Rickyearl said:


> Yeah, the MW07 are strange shaped, so it's hard to compare them.  They're actually not as "thick" front to back as the E8, but they're so much wider across and pretty much the same "height" in your ear.  They weigh a tiny bit less based on my unscientific method of holding them in my hand.
> 
> What I'm curious about is the E8 vs. Senn TWM - they look really close in size and shape.  And the controls seem nearly the same too.



Sorry, to be clear, when I wrote MTW I meant Momentum True Wireless, e.g. the Sennheisers. I've never tried the MW07s

Controls are pretty similar - biggest weirdness left ear pauses instead of right. The transparency is a doubletap on the right which is annoying, one tap launches Assistant. Overall I'm happier with them. SQ is IMO much better than the e8s


----------



## webvan

Rickyearl said:


> I'm not sure what any of that has to do with a size/shape/controls comparison between e8 and the Senn TWM


That's probably because my original reply was for firewatersun who didn't seem to know about the SQ of the WF-1000x  Case closed !


----------



## Rickyearl

firewatersun said:


> Sorry, to be clear, when I wrote MTW I meant Momentum True Wireless, e.g. the Sennheisers. I've never tried the MW07s
> 
> Controls are pretty similar - biggest weirdness left ear pauses instead of right. The transparency is a doubletap on the right which is annoying, one tap launches Assistant. Overall I'm happier with them. SQ is IMO much better than the e8s



Totally misread that on my phone as MW07 - need a bigger phone.  Thanks!



webvan said:


> That's probably because my original reply was for firewatersun who didn't seem to know about the SQ of the WF-1000x  Case closed !



Ohhhhh.  Makes a lot more sense. Thanks!


----------



## firewatersun (Nov 27, 2018)

webvan said:


> That's probably because my original reply was for firewatersun who didn't seem to know about the SQ of the WF-1000x  Case closed !



What HiFi doesn't have a MW07 OR Sennheiser MTW review or even hands on, so they're not necessarily comparing either. Previous replies in this thread have mentioned MW07 or MTW as being up there with SQ. The review on Gizmodo I posted mentions the 1000X series and doesn't even use it for SQ comparison, skipping to the MW07s.


----------



## Chrisdu18e

Burakk said:


> Is there anybody who can give an idea call quality of rha true connect and Senn. Mtw? By the way, I couldn’t find any shop which has stock for senn. in The Netherlands.


The call quality of senn is not really good outside. I don't heart perfectly my own voice and my contact had problems to hear me during a long call (45 mn). I was in the center of Paris will a lot of noise.


----------



## korefuji

I'm not surprised about call quality with the senn's tbh, I think they only have 2 mics, compared to say, jabras with 4?


----------



## Chrisdu18e

webreaper said:


> I wish there was a way to disable Alexa/Siri/GAssist on all of these 'phones (Jabra, Senn etc). Am I the only person who has literally no interest in using it or talking to my phone?


I'm like you. With the Senn, it's possible to disable it with the app.


----------



## Ocelitgol

have anyone tried the Mavin Air-X? they claim to last up to 10 hrs per charge and 50hrs in total....and according to an Amazon review, it seems to be up there.


----------



## plisandro

So  i gave up on Qi charging. No one seems to really want to support this - the only ones seem to be Havit G1W and a load of Indiegogo projects promising the world which i have little faith on to be honest.

I'm narrowing down on either the 65T or RHA's Trueconnect. Anyone owning both willing to help me decide here?


----------



## Burakk

plisandro said:


> So  i gave up on Qi charging. No one seems to really want to support this - the only ones seem to be Havit G1W and a load of Indiegogo projects promising the world which i have little faith on to be honest.
> 
> I'm narrowing down on either the 65T or RHA's Trueconnect. Anyone owning both willing to help me decide here?



I need the same comparison of RHA and 65T. Particularly in terms of sound and call quality.


----------



## korefuji

Can't provide a comparison sadly, but I can say, if I didn't have the Senn's I would prolly choose the Jabras, as a good old rounder if I was strict on money, If i would spend a bit more I would go with Senn's. RHA get very decent reviews, their controls seem to be messy though, like i think its two presses up on the left bud and three on the right to move back and forth. Sound quality from what I've read, RHA nails it better than Jabras, but overall they're both very competitive. The Jabras are a very good all rounder with excellent sound quality for the calls. I was clear, and distinct, and i tidn't let in too much noise with the receiver of the call. RHA, I was thinking of getting but they werent in stock at the time. And no OTA put me off a bit.


----------



## clerkpalmer

My fully charged mw07 died on a flight at exactly 2 hours at about 45 percent volume. How do I post a sad face here? And this is the same as my flight last week. Definitely not thrilled.


----------



## eirunoopi

Interesting to read people's experiences with the MW07. After about a week of regular testing here are mine:
The battery life hasn't been troubling me at all. On a 2.5 hour flight today I played music at 70% volume and it still had enough juice for the subway ride back home (around 30 minutes). And to be honest, I usually never listen to music for more than 2.5 hours at a time, but in 30 mins - 1 hour segments. Quick charging helps out a lot when on the go. 

The buttons are really intuitive to use. On the right earphone is the button that plays/pauses/skip tracks and on the left are the volume down/up buttons. I like this arrangement of buttons much better than having the functions split between the earphones (e.g. long presses on the left/right earphones for volume up/down, as per the Senns). I also like physical rather than touch sensitive buttons because it's so easy to mess something up when I adjust the fit.

The sound, after trying out different tips and wings and adjusting the fit quite a bit, has everything I want. Nice sub-bass rumble and detailed mids. As I mentioned earlier, it sounds very much like my DT770s with a smaller soundstage. 

*However.* I'm pretty sure they don't fit my ears that well. I have large, flat-ish ears and I think the MW07s are better suited to slightly smaller (ie normal sized) and deeper ears. The reason being that when I angle the nozzle to align with my ear canal, the wings press against my inside of my antihelix and after 30 minutes my ear starts to get sore. There's no other way too because I don't get good isolation otherwise. 

Unfortunately this probably means I'll be returning them, despite everything else going for them. I'll probably wait until gen2 of wireless earphones, when there'll be a wider selection of good sounding earphones and most of the software/hardware issues have been ironed out. Until then, I'll get wireless headphones or something.


----------



## albau

eirunoopi said:


> ...Unfortunately this probably means I'll be returning them, despite everything else going for them...


Unfortunately bad fit seems to be the case for me as well. But not because of the discomfort, but because I simply can't find proper fit, at least with supplied tips and fins. As you I have rather big ears, mine are also soft (to avoid word floppy ). Also as for you the SQ is all what I want in wireless IEMs. I know the sound is there because if I press the buds with fingers I can hear the good vibe with decent soundstage, non-boomy but present bass that doesn't bleed into mids, forward and clear mids and sufficiently detailed treble (maybe sometimes too hot for my liking on certain tracks). The best combo I found is XL stock tips and a big fin. This combo stays secure when I'm vigorously working the elliptical trainer or when lying on a press bench. Problem is with isolation, as evident by the need to manually press the buds into my ears to get optimal sound. Otherwise it becomes quite unbalanced - booming bass and too bright highs with sibilant vocals. I ordered some large SpinFits to see if they'll rectify the issue. If not, my MW07 will go back where they came from, though in all honesty I like almost everything else about them.


----------



## willryan042

^ Yep, same complaint as you guys. @eirunoopi I have the same exact issue, I just didn't know that part of my ear was called the "antihelix" . The MW07 fit super securely but they push against that part of my ear and just like you, started getting painful after 20-30 minutes. 

I returned them to Best Buy yesterday. The Senn's still aren't sitting 100% right in my ears either (specifically the left one which is kinda weird). My Comply TrueGrip tips get delivered tonight so I'm hoping that helps the problem.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

The MW07 is so good in so many respects but I just can't cotton the battery anxiety. 2hr is far too short. 3 I'd be good with since I wouldn't have to "portion" my use at the gym out, but when I'm getting beeps while lifting despite coming in at 100% that's just a dealbreaker. Sad face.


----------



## dweaver (Nov 26, 2018)

I have to decide if I should cancel my Sennheiser order. Reading the email I got after placing the order I see this statement. _"We ask that any items packaged in clear plastic packaging be returned unopened." _So it appears this is not a guarantee a person will like the product, just a guarantee they will take an unopened product back within 30 days of it being bought.

So same as buying at a store. I will check Amazon Canada out and if they allow returns may order from them instead. Just to expensive to buy something like this with zero recourse if you have some form of issue. Funny enough even their 2 year warranty just about includes nothing since most of the parts like the battery have a disclaimer against them.

_"All New Products come with a *2 year warranty* with the exception of parts, accessories, and rechargeable batteries, which may have a shorter service life. For additional information, see our general terms and conditions."_


----------



## chinmie

i finally tested the Sony WF SP700 and compare it to the SP900 briefly at the sony center. man... the bass on the SP700 is big! a bit much for me, but the bass is done in a good way and not to the point of covering the other frequency too much.

@SomeGuyDude how is the bass of the MW07 compared to the SP700? if i remember correctly you have both. is it louder in bass quantity compared to the SP700 or better in deeper extension and quality?


----------



## SomeGuyDude

chinmie said:


> i finally tested the Sony WF SP700 and compare it to the SP900 briefly at the sony center. man... the bass on the SP700 is big! a bit much for me, but the bass is done in a good way and not to the point of covering the other frequency too much.
> 
> @SomeGuyDude how is the bass of the MW07 compared to the SP700? if i remember correctly you have both. is it louder in bass quantity compared to the SP700 or better in deeper extension and quality?



sp700 has stronger bass, rather noticeably so. MW07 just has better quality top to bottom, the bass "fills" the sound without sounding like it's built more for hip-hop/pop/rock. The treble on the MW07 might seem hot at first but once a moment passes and you adjust, the bass is really, really damn nice.


----------



## willryan042

Just got the Comply TrueGrip Pro tips delivered. They fit the Senn's perfectly (make sure you push down firmly due to their "recessed core") and really help the fit. These things finally feel secure in my ears. I'll give them the proper test at the gym tomorrow but I definitely feel more confident compared to how these felt with the silicone tips.


----------



## firewatersun (Nov 26, 2018)

On a kinda tangent, I picked up some ENACFIRE 18s on a Black Friday sale, and I gotta say I'm impressed. mids and highs are not bad at all (a little muffled) but bass is not as well controlled, and can become distorted (rarely though and depending on the song). Soundstage is not great. They are tiny though and fit most of my small-eared friends.

Overall, actually really not bad for the price (50-60 USD), I'd compare them to the wired AKGs that come with Samsung phones and a bit worse than my previous Beoplay e8s, more muffled with details. They seriously made me wonder if the sound quality difference is really worth the 250 difference to the Sennheisers.

They also seem to have really good standby, fell asleep with them and they still played my alarm tone when I woke up 7 hours later. Just thought it might be good as a secondary pair.



willryan042 said:


> Just got the Comply TrueGrip Pro tips delivered. They fit the Senn's perfectly (make sure you push down firmly due to their "recessed core") and really help the fit. These things finally feel secure in my ears. I'll give them the proper test at the gym tomorrow but I definitely feel more confident compared to how these felt with the silicone tips.



I did the "shove foam behind the silicone eartip" thing, and it didn't seem to change the sound profile much, but significantly improved isolation. Will be interested to hear how the Complys work out!


----------



## korefuji

firewatersun said:


> I did the "shove foam behind the silicone eartip" thing, and it didn't seem to change the sound profile much, but significantly improved isolation. Will be interested to hear how the Complys work out!



Can you explain this technique? I have never heard of it before, Im getting my true grips next week as they've shipped


----------



## alee

Sennheiser just updated the iOS app to v.1.0.3 for "performance optimizations and bugfixes". Could be anything, but at least shows they're working on something.


----------



## firewatersun

willryan042 said:


> Just got the Comply TrueGrip Pro tips delivered. They fit the Senn's perfectly (make sure you push down firmly due to their "recessed core") and really help the fit. These things finally feel secure in my ears. I'll give them the proper test at the gym tomorrow but I definitely feel more confident compared to how these felt with the silicone tips.





korefuji said:


> Can you explain this technique? I have never heard of it before, Im getting my true grips next week as they've shipped



Sure! So you get a pair of Comply fakes/generic foam earplugs (you'll need to punch a hole in these), snip off the top half-inch to an inch off em. Then you grab the silicon eartips and flip the "mushroom" part up (like when an umbrella gets inverted due to wind), and work the foam bits around the cylinder bit of the silicone tips. Then, roll the mushroom back down over them and install on the earbuds as usual. In practice it's kinda like the now discontinued Sony isolation tips that were foam-filled silicone eartips.


----------



## hifi80sman

SomeGuyDude said:


> sp700 has stronger bass, rather noticeably so. MW07 just has better quality top to bottom, the bass "fills" the sound without sounding like it's built more for hip-hop/pop/rock. The treble on the MW07 might seem hot at first but once a moment passes and you adjust, the bass is really, really damn nice.


Totally agree.  The MW07, currently, sounds the most refined and the closest to wired than any of the other sets out there.  I think the Bose sound good as well, but they are semi-open and a rolled off a little in the upper range.  I also recently purchased the Beoplay E8, but immediately returned.  They have 5.7 mm drivers, and let's just say, it sounds like they have 5.7 mm drivers...

The Sony sound good, but you can tell they are truly wireless.  Listening to the MW07, sometimes I go to change tracks by feeling around for the in-line remote.  A value choice, that sounds better than the Sony and rock beryllium drivers, are the Treblab X5.  They sound pretty nice as well, although slightly raspy with more white noise in the background.  The MW07 are pretty darn silent and suitable for classical, if you so desire.

For pure sound quality, the MW07 are the way to go.  On sale now at Best Buy for $225 USD.


----------



## willryan042

Comply sidenote: these are my first ones with their "sweatguard." Has anyone cut those out? I don't really care about guarding from sweat and part of me feels like they might block some of the low end.


----------



## howdy

@hifi80sman and or @SomeGuyDude 

Are you liking the Bose more than the MW07 for SQ and comfort?


----------



## Daniel4IEM

I'm new to this thread and looking to leverage collective insights on the options. I'm looking for best possible SQ with a nice seal, and comfort. My sense from some research is the Master and Dynamic or the new Senns are my best options for true wireless. What else should I consider or be aware of? Also interested in value. If there's a good option that gets me 80% there at a much lower price, please let me know.


----------



## maxxevv

Daniel4IEM said:


> What else should I consider or be aware of? Also interested in value. If there's a good option that gets me 80% there at a much lower price, please let me know.



TRN BT20,  comes in 2-pin 0.75mm,  2-pin 0.78mm,  MMCX connector options.  

Allows you to go "wireless" with your favourite IEM or maybe even earbud ( haven't tried that yet).


----------



## webvan

How's the sound ? I got the "over the neck" TRN BT3 last week and while the sound is overall decent I found that there was some pretty loud annoying hiss/static/white noise, especially noticeable between songs or when I hit pause before it cuts out after about 2/3 seconds. I've seen many other people complain about this so I doubt I got a dud. Happens on both my TRN V80 and KZ-ZS3 too. The seller (AK Audio store on AliExpress) is being as unhelpful as possible as could be expected


----------



## n20nine

willryan042 said:


> Just got the Comply TrueGrip Pro tips delivered. They fit the Senn's perfectly (make sure you push down firmly due to their "recessed core") and really help the fit. These things finally feel secure in my ears. I'll give them the proper test at the gym tomorrow but I definitely feel more confident compared to how these felt with the silicone tips.



Keen to try them before I return mine. Do let us know if there is a slight change in sound, which I found when I used the TX-200



alee said:


> Sennheiser just updated the iOS app to v.1.0.3 for "performance optimizations and bugfixes". Could be anything, but at least shows they're working on something.



I definitely have noticed that the earbuds don’t discharge drastically on one side but still early days. Hope it solves most of my issues posted previously and if the Comply’s work well, I’ll keep them.


----------



## webreaper (Nov 27, 2018)

Okay, so received my Senns this morning. Haven't used them for long, but can give a comparative opinion on the soundstage etc compared to the Jabra 65Ts. TL;DR: They rock. 

So much more bass and a much more open and clear soundstage. Tighter treble, less muddy than the Jabras. The sound profile is very much like my old IE80s - which is a good thing.

Few test tracks to compare:

'Sister', Lenny Kravitz - that first bass note just *kicks*. On the Jabra it was okay, but with the Senns it's like having an actual bass guitar in your head.
'Ordinary Day', Bent - cracking bass, and the soundstage opens up widely, compared to the Jabras. Feels like listening in a big room, rather than in your head.
'Revolutions', Jarre - crisp clear percussion, really tight mid-ranges. Just sounds a whole load clearer than the Jabras, and sooo much more detail.
'World in my Eyes', Depeche Mode - Intro is really tight and hits you much harder, real oomph to it.
'Coward', Interstellar OST - They _really_ showed up the differences here. The whole soundstage opened up and felt voluminous. The underlying low notes of the organ backdrop felt huge in my head, really awesome.
'Rather Be (Magician Remix)', Clean Bandit - again, massively thumping bass, but the soundstage is so wide and open.
'Take it Back', Floyd - everything just sounds crisper and cleaner, and there's a deep tonal bass that just hits you hard.
The thing I really noticed is that there's just a whole new depth of tone that's missing on the Jabras. The other thing is that the volume is so loud. With the Jabras, I had to run them at literally 100% volume to get any sort of immersion, and it really wasn't that loud at all. With the Senns, I'd say they're louder at 50% than the 65Ts at 100%. Whether that means that the battery life will be improved because the volume is lower, remains to be seen.

So from a SQ perspective, these have nailed it. Really chuffed.

Just have to see how the battery life and the other features work out. In terms of other stuff - pairing was instant - put them in the case, took them out again and they popped up on my phone (S7Edge) instantly. No problems. Fit seems excellent, with the default tips - feel solid as a rock. Don't think I'll have any need for replacement tips (or even to change the tips to the larger ones) but we'll see.


----------



## n20nine

webreaper said:


> Okay, so received my Senns this morning. Haven't used them for long, but can give a comparative opinion on the soundstage etc compared to the Jabra 65Ts. TL;DR: They rock.
> 
> So much more bass and a much more open and clear soundstage. Tighter treble, less muddy than the Jabras. The sound profile is very much like my old IE80s - which is a good thing.
> 
> ...



So after few days of using, at least for my unit, I am getting about 3 hours of use with volume at 65% on my iPhone XS.


----------



## webreaper

n20nine said:


> So after few days of using, at least for my unit, I am getting about 3 hours of use with volume at 65% on my iPhone XS.


With this SQ, that'll do fine for me. My commute is under 90 mins. Anything over the 3-hour mark is a bonus.


----------



## nc8000

I need 4 hours as my commute is at least 3 hours 50 minutes as this the E8 and G1 both can deliver with a bit to spare


----------



## maxxevv (Nov 27, 2018)

webvan said:


> How's the sound ? I got the "over the neck" TRN BT3 last week and while the sound is overall decent I found that there was some pretty loud annoying hiss/static/white noise, especially noticeable between songs or when I hit pause before it cuts out after about 2/3 seconds. I've seen many other people complain about this so I doubt I got a dud. Happens on both my TRN V80 and KZ-ZS3 too. The seller (AK Audio store on AliExpress) is being as unhelpful as possible as could be expected



I have been testing them while on public transport, so haven't really detected any hiss as the background noise may have covered it up. But even while walking, I don't detect it either. Haven't tested in a quiet environment yet.
I do all my controls via my phone so, haven't encountered any issues. Besides, it behind your ear, clicking the button there is kind of out of the way.

Here's my impressions and answers to some queries I posted over at the KZ thread.

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-2571#post-14622693



nc8000 said:


> I need 4 hours as my commute is at least 3 hours 50 minutes as this the E8 and G1 both can deliver with a bit to spare



I have  reached about the 4 hours mark with  the BT20 after 2 days of use. Its still going strong. Its supposed to do about 6 hours, so shall have to see how it fares for the 3rd day of use.


----------



## webreaper

nc8000 said:


> I need 4 hours as my commute is at least 3 hours 50 minutes as this the E8 and G1 both can deliver with a bit to spare


You need a shorter commute.


----------



## webvan (Nov 27, 2018)

maxxevv said:


> I have been testing them while on public transport, so haven't really detected any hiss as the background noise may have covered it up. But even while walking, I don't detect it either. Haven't tested in a quiet environment yet.
> I do all my controls via my phone so, haven't encountered any issues. Besides, it behind your ear, clicking the button there is kind of out of the way.
> 
> Here's my impressions and answers to some queries I posted over at the KZ thread.
> ...



Thanks I saw over there that someone was using them with TRN IEMs (not sure if it's the V80). The hiss with the KZ-ZS3 is much less annoying with the TRN BT3 adapter.


----------



## nc8000

webreaper said:


> You need a shorter commute.



Normally only do either way once a week but yes


----------



## Sharkhunter

any EQ suggestions for Sennheiser TWS. i thgt it would have presets like BO E8. i couldnt find any.


----------



## webreaper

Sharkhunter said:


> any EQ suggestions for Sennheiser TWS. i thgt it would have presets like BO E8. i couldnt find any.


What do you mean "Eq suggestions"? Are you meaning "what settings should I use?". Surely the answer is "whatever you like the sound of". 

TBH, I thought they sound excellent on the default/flat setting...


----------



## AxelCloris

We removed a few posts that went off-topic and were getting a bit too personal. Let's please keep the discussion within the Posting Guidelines. Thanks all.


----------



## Rickyearl

firewatersun said:


> Sure! So you get a pair of Comply fakes/generic foam earplugs (you'll need to punch a hole in these), snip off the top half-inch to an inch off em. Then you grab the silicon eartips and flip the "mushroom" part up (like when an umbrella gets inverted due to wind), and work the foam bits around the cylinder bit of the silicone tips. Then, roll the mushroom back down over them and install on the earbuds as usual. In practice it's kinda like the now discontinued Sony isolation tips that were foam-filled silicone eartips.



So you basically take foam from a tip/earplug and fill the underside of the silicone tip?  Will have to try, thanks!  Curious if this extends the life for foams.  I like them, but Complys get "soft" and tear pretty fast for me.  



willryan042 said:


> Comply sidenote: these are my first ones with their "sweatguard." Has anyone cut those out? I don't really care about guarding from sweat and part of me feels like they might block some of the low end.



Kind of gross, but I think the sweatguards capture a lot of wax, which is either a good or bad thing depending on how you think about it.  It does lower their lifespan in my experience.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

webreaper said:


> Okay, so received my Senns this morning. Haven't used them for long, but can give a comparative opinion on the soundstage etc compared to the Jabra 65Ts. TL;DR: They rock.
> 
> So much more bass and a much more open and clear soundstage. Tighter treble, less muddy than the Jabras. The sound profile is very much like my old IE80s - which is a good thing.
> 
> ...



Dammit. I hate you. Now I have to get them LOL


----------



## willryan042

Rickyearl said:


> So you basically take foam from a tip/earplug and fill the underside of the silicone tip?  Will have to try, thanks!  Curious if this extends the life for foams.  I like them, but Complys get "soft" and tear pretty fast for me.
> 
> 
> 
> Kind of gross, but I think the sweatguards capture a lot of wax, which is either a good or bad thing depending on how you think about it.  It does lower their lifespan in my experience.



Yeah I kind of figured that. I might give it a shot and cut one out to see if it makes a difference in bass and overall volume. I'm seeing comments in here about people thinking the Senn's are super loud but I had the opposite reaction. I'm coming from a pair of Jlab Epic Air's and the loudest I'd go with them was about 70% (and this is at the gym, when I usually need an extra kick in volume). 

With the Senn's at the gym today, I had them around 90%. Not sure if it's the Comply tips/sweatguard of the buds themselves though.

Aside from that, the Comply's are a huge upgrade for me. These things fit super securely, I didn't have to adjust them once at the gym. And my ears didn't hurt afterwards like they did with the MW07. I'm sold.

Turning off Siri in the Senn app as someone else mentioned in here was a great idea as I kept accidentally activating it when I wanted Transparency mode. Transparency mode is still a bit finnicky and honestly even when I activate it, it's hardly any different from just pausing the music.


----------



## webreaper

willryan042 said:


> Turning off Siri in the Senn app as someone else mentioned in here was a great idea as I kept accidentally activating it when I wanted Transparency mode. Transparency mode is still a bit finnicky and honestly even when I activate it, it's hardly any different from just pausing the music.


Yeah, so far (limited testing) the touch controls on the Senns are super-finnicky, and trying to differentiate between one-tap and two taps is hard. I doubt I'll use the touch controls much. 

The transparency mode seemed to work well - less echoey and metallic than the equivalent on the Jabras, but I only tried it in my kitchen with no other noise around, so hard to tell how effective it is.


----------



## hifi80sman

howdy said:


> @hifi80sman and or @SomeGuyDude
> 
> Are you liking the Bose more than the MW07 for SQ and comfort?


SQ:
To me, the MW07 sound more refined and better overall from top to bottom; transparency is better.  Better top end detail (Bose is a bit rolled off) and a tighter low end.  Like I said, they both sound good, but the MW07 edges it with it's refined, natural sound.

Comfort:
The MW07 are comfortable and one of the more comfortable for this form factor, but the Bose still win in terms of comfort.

Looks:
The MW07 look way better and don't make you look like Frankenstein's Monster.


----------



## willryan042

webreaper said:


> Yeah, so far (limited testing) the touch controls on the Senns are super-finnicky, and trying to differentiate between one-tap and two taps is hard. I doubt I'll use the touch controls much.
> 
> The transparency mode seemed to work well - less echoey and metallic than the equivalent on the Jabras, but I only tried it in my kitchen with no other noise around, so hard to tell how effective it is.



Yeah I might be expecting too much regarding transparency from little earbuds. On my Sony XM3 cans the transparency mode sounds awesome, so I might be a bit biased.


----------



## Burakk

I really appreciate if smb give an idea about call quality of MW07.


----------



## holyindian

Did anyone recieve their Senn "MOMENTUM True Wireless" IEM's yet? Sorry, I am catching up with headfi now after getting back from Thanksgiving family trip.
How's the IEM, anyone recommend it over anything previously in the market?

BTW, whats a good comply foam tip for jabra elite 65t (i picked up one anyhow for daily routines), But i am looking to get the "MOMENTUM True Wireless" if they are better than anything sold in the market right now.


----------



## webreaper

holyindian said:


> Did anyone recieve their Senn "MOMENTUM True Wireless" IEM's yet? How's the IEM, anyone recommend it over anything previously in the market?


Lots of us have them. Scroll up a few posts for my comparison with Jabra 65Ts, and back a couple of pages to see comparisons with the Havits, the MWs, and a few others. 

I think the general consensus is that from a sound quality perspective, they're very very good. The controls can be a bit fiddly and aren't quite as slick as the Jabras. The battery life seems good, but again, is not as good as the Jabras. If you're in for the SQ, and the cost doesn't scare you off, you won't be disappointed.


----------



## mikp

Got the mavin for fun,-since the sennheiser seems more like an "indoor" type thing and the jabra 65 seems to have the most boxes ticked (but could be a little louder and with apt-x) Next waiting for the qualcomm 5 series that should have anc.

Not tested the mavin much,- other to check the sound is not crap and tinny and it passed the quick test. Also these are louder than the jabras. Next have to check battery life and connection outside.


----------



## korefuji

nice collection. I will be road testing the senn's outside soon, I'm jus stuck right now doing tonnes of other stuff at home. Not had a chance to try them outside. For me, teh fit is great, will be better with comply tips im sure which are on the way, and battery was near enough 4 hours at 75% volume
so those that have it at 50% vol will have no issues I imagine.


----------



## hifi80sman (Nov 28, 2018)

Burakk said:


> I really appreciate if smb give an idea about call quality of MW07.


It's about average.  Voice is intelligible and not muffled, and although it's not soft, it could be a bit louder.  They're competent enough to use in a quiet office (which is how I use them).  I haven't tested them in a loud environment, such as a coffee shop, etc., but I'll update my feedback once I've done so.


----------



## albau

hifi80sman said:


> It's about average.  Voice is ineligible and not muffled, and although it's not soft, it could be a bit louder.  They're competent enough to use in a quiet office (which is how I use them).  I haven't tested them in a loud environment, such as a coffee shop, etc., but I'll update my feedback once I've done so.


I concur. Jabras 65t are noticeably better in the call quality respect. But that's expected with their stems, greater number of mics and with general Jabra's field of expertise. Still mw07 are no duds by a long shot. In a moderately noisy environments like my gym voice on the other side sounds tinnier and kinda higher pitched vs Jabra. But still volume is sufficient (on par with 65t) and nobody on the other side complained about how I sound. Though my wife one time said that I sound "funny", which she never mentioned when I was on 65t.


----------



## Ocelitgol

maxxevv said:


> I have been testing them while on public transport, so haven't really detected any hiss as the background noise may have covered it up. But even while walking, I don't detect it either. Haven't tested in a quiet environment yet.
> I do all my controls via my phone so, haven't encountered any issues. Besides, it behind your ear, clicking the button there is kind of out of the way.
> 
> Here's my impressions and answers to some queries I posted over at the KZ thread.
> ...


is the charging method annoying? I'm assuming you have to get 2 usb cable to charge them? (looking into this one for mmcx)



mikp said:


> Got the mavin for fun,-since the sennheiser seems more like an "indoor" type thing and the jabra 65 seems to have the most boxes ticked (but could be a little louder and with apt-x) Next waiting for the qualcomm 5 series that should have anc.
> 
> Not tested the mavin much,- other to check the sound is not crap and tinny and it passed the quick test. Also these are louder than the jabras. Next have to check battery life and connection outside.



I just got the Mavin yesterday, got around 7hrs on aptx (not sure if aac will give better battery life). I HATE the stock tip, I couldn't get a good fit and the missing of size indication on the tips didn't help. Had to settle for spinfit but still couldn't get a comfortable fit. 

After around 30hrs of using this, my impression:
pros = good battery + ok sound (the treble is too much for my taste....or maybe because I didn't get a good seal) + light
cons = no multipoint profiles (can't switch between phone and laptop, have to disconnect on one) + the shape is weird for my ear + mic quality seems to be very bad

if you have any tips to improve usage with Mavin, I'm all ears.
Too bad they don't have app or software update for these.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

howdy said:


> @hifi80sman and or @SomeGuyDude
> 
> Are you liking the Bose more than the MW07 for SQ and comfort?



Comfort and sound the MW07 wins handily, IMO. Great isolation, fits nicely, I like how it's pretty sleek looking instead of the weird Frankenstein bolts @hifi80sman also mentioned. They also isolate, which the Bose do not (they have a rather unique fit). The MW07 also gets a nice bit louder, which I appreciate. I never max out either, but i like having volume overhead in case I get an album that's particularly quiet.

Tragically, as I'm using these for the gym as well as when I'm out and about, the MW07 and I had to part ways. For the gym, the Bose are just on another level in terms of security. Their wing system is incredibly secure, despite not feeling as "locked in" as the MW07. When the Bose are properly in place, they don't feel like they're super secured, but they are. For two, that battery life is just the dealbreaker. I need to be able to pop my headphones in when I walk in the gym and go through my warmup and workout without worrying that they're gonna die, and the MW07 failed on that front. My choices were to either bring the case with me and give them a quick charge sometime during the workout, or leave them in the case until my warmup routine was over, pop them in IMMEDIATELY before I started lifting, and then hope they survived to the end.

If it's true that the Senns can go 3.5hr before they start warning you about battery then they might be my end solution.


----------



## dweaver

mikp said:


> Got the mavin for fun,-since the sennheiser seems more like an "indoor" type thing and the jabra 65 seems to have the most boxes ticked (but could be a little louder and with apt-x) Next waiting for the qualcomm 5 series that should have anc.
> 
> Not tested the mavin much,- other to check the sound is not crap and tinny and it passed the quick test. Also these are louder than the jabras. Next have to check battery life and connection outside.


Looking forward to a bit more detail about how the Mavin sounds and if their battery life claims are accurate. I did the failed Indiegogo campaign and am still interested them.


----------



## chinmie

besides the Jabras, what other TW can have multiple connection simultaneously? i like the 65t that i could listen to my phone and switch to watching youtubes on my tablet without the need to connect/disconnect the bluetooth


----------



## clerkpalmer

chinmie said:


> besides the Jabras, what other TW can have multiple connection simultaneously? i like the 65t that i could listen to my phone and switch to watching youtubes on my tablet without the need to connect/disconnect the bluetooth


Bose


----------



## albau

chinmie said:


> besides the Jabras, what other TW can have multiple connection simultaneously? i like the 65t that i could listen to my phone and switch to watching youtubes on my tablet without the need to connect/disconnect the bluetooth


MW07. They can remember two connections and switch seamlessly between my Android phone and an iPad.


----------



## clerkpalmer

Napilopez said:


> I think the EQ is plenty robust. No, you can't adjust indiviudin frequency bands, but it can drastically affect the sound. Wan more of a V shape? You can do that. Want it more linear? You can do that. Want more bass and less treble? Fine. Or perhaps more treble and less bass? Doable. The nice thing is that it allows you to trim the mid-bass without killing the sub-bass, which is what I've done.
> 
> Honestly, I think it's more practical and intuitive than a traditional EQ, while being easier to understand for the mainstream. Barring any terrible narrow frequency spikes or dips, all I really care about is the overall shape of the frequency curve and the technical quality of the driver.


would you mind sharing a pic of your preferred eq?


----------



## clerkpalmer

My left Sennheiser will not charge to 100%. Capping out at 91%.  Anyone having the same issue?  Is this a software issue or a hardware issue?


----------



## ebrandon

Went to the Sennheiser store in San Francisco today to check out the TWM.  Spent about 1/2 hour listening to my standard suite of test tracks over AAC from a Shanling m0.

1) It was comfortable for me.  A bit of pressure in one ear, but probably could adjust it to eliminate that one pain point.  Better than most true wireless iems.  They looked good, and were very safely held in my ear.

2) The sound was exceptionally good for a true wireless iem.  Just a bit too bassy for me, but that could easily be eq'ed out because the bass was tight, just a little too much of it.  Everything else - rhythm, mids, highs -- were to my liking.

3) While the sound was good for a true wireless iem, I decided not to buy it because, for me, the category is not ready yet.  The whole time I was listening I was enjoying the music just enough to make me want to listen to music in even better quality - whether that's the LDAC quality of the WH-1000XM3 wireless cans, or a wired iem like the Etymotic 4XR.

If someone has a use case that requires wireless iem's, then these probably have the best SQ in the category.  Hard to imagine how it could be better over AAC/APTX.  The codec felt like the limiting factor.  But even these best-in-class true wireless iem's aren't good enough for me.

I guess I'll wait for the TWM's mark 2 and try again.  I think if they had LDAC, I would have bought them today and they would have sounded not just good but great.


----------



## webreaper

Senn pushed out another update to the MTW Android app today. That's two updates in the last week. Guess they're working hard!


----------



## joshnor713

Can anyone with the Senn's help with feedback? Finally got the MTW in today (stupid shipping delay). To my dismay, there's some pretty significant hiss, more-so on the left side than right. I can usually tune out hiss (I've tried a lot of true wireless earbuds), but this is just too much. I'm thinking I got a bad unit. From what I see, everyone seems to agree that the background is noise-free for the most part.

Additionally, the lid is too flimsy. It wobbles, and the plastic hinge feels very fragile (like I could bend it back with little force and it would just break off). Anyone else observe that too?

Pretty disappointed after waiting so long for this pair, especially since I'm a big fan of Senn. My DD has been the WF-1000X, and so far its quality is winning out. I'd like to hear what you guys say before I wrap the MTW back up and try to get a replacement.


----------



## webreaper

I haven't heard any hiss at all, although I've only had mine today so not a huge amount of listening. But certainly nothing noticeable. 

The case lid feels pretty solid and snaps shut nicely. Sounds like you have a bad set.


----------



## Sharkhunter

just out of curiosity, i bgt jabra elite 65t and received it today. i received a firmware upgrade after installing  the app. and now i see that left bud creates crackle upon playing any song.

Any tips? 

i have tried re-pairing, resetting.for the price i got this on amazon, thgt of using it for gym and stuff


----------



## joshnor713

webreaper said:


> I haven't heard any hiss at all, although I've only had mine today so not a huge amount of listening. But certainly nothing noticeable.
> 
> The case lid feels pretty solid and snaps shut nicely. Sounds like you have a bad set.



Thank you. I'll get it replaced then. Sigh...the wait continues


----------



## Sharkhunter

joshnor713 said:


> Can anyone with the Senn's help with feedback? Finally got the MTW in today (stupid shipping delay). To my dismay, there's some pretty significant hiss, more-so on the left side than right. I can usually tune out hiss (I've tried a lot of true wireless earbuds), but this is just too much. I'm thinking I got a bad unit. From what I see, everyone seems to agree that the background is noise-free for the most part.
> 
> Additionally, the lid is too flimsy. It wobbles, and the plastic hinge feels very fragile (like I could bend it back with little force and it would just break off). Anyone else observe that too?
> 
> Pretty disappointed after waiting so long for this pair, especially since I'm a big fan of Senn. My DD has been the WF-1000X, and so far its quality is winning out. I'd like to hear what you guys say before I wrap the MTW back up and try to get a replacement.



The casing for E8 and MW07 felt premium when compared to sennheiser.  I even have difficulty in picking up the iems from sennheiser casing.. they feel slippery.


----------



## clerkpalmer

joshnor713 said:


> Can anyone with the Senn's help with feedback? Finally got the MTW in today (stupid shipping delay). To my dismay, there's some pretty significant hiss, more-so on the left side than right. I can usually tune out hiss (I've tried a lot of true wireless earbuds), but this is just too much. I'm thinking I got a bad unit. From what I see, everyone seems to agree that the background is noise-free for the most part.
> 
> Additionally, the lid is too flimsy. It wobbles, and the plastic hinge feels very fragile (like I could bend it back with little force and it would just break off). Anyone else observe that too?
> 
> Pretty disappointed after waiting so long for this pair, especially since I'm a big fan of Senn. My DD has been the WF-1000X, and so far its quality is winning out. I'd like to hear what you guys say before I wrap the MTW back up and try to get a replacement.



No hiss here and I am sensitive to it. My mw07 had left side hiss. I don’t hear it in the senns. 

Having compared the senns to the mw07, the sq on the mw07s is superior to my ears. Warmer, more powerful, punchy and dynamic. Less balanced maybe but I prefer the mw07 and by a decent margin. The senns sound great and are definitely a step above the Jabras, but they don’t match the mw07. Too bad battery life is a disaster in the mw07 so mine are going back. I’ll miss the sweet sq however.


----------



## mikp (Nov 28, 2018)

stormers said:


> is the charging method annoying? I'm assuming you have to get 2 usb cable to charge them? (looking into this one for mmcx)
> 
> 
> 
> ...



What type of spinfit would fit? would like of try one of those on some of my earbuds

Some update on the mavin:
Left it connected to the hiby r3 overnight and it played on medium-low for 7 hours straight. Then connected it to the unihertz atom and reported battery was 57%.

Was first disappointed that it would not turn on or off without the case, but it goes to sleep after a while then can be powered on with the buttons and paired.

Tested outside for a walk, but with hiby r3 that has poor bluetooth. So long as the r3 is on the left side it seems ok. With the lg g7 the connection strength is noticeable better inside with walls etc.

Sound quality for someone else go into, other than I think they are fine. Loud enough with ok bass ones the fit is ok. Did get a few cheap chinese tws 5.0 before settled jabra 65t, and the mavin is happily better than them.

only thing it seems remembered paired devices is low, I think its 3 devices before you have to pair again.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

ebrandon said:


> Went to the Sennheiser store in San Francisco today to check out the TWM.  Spent about 1/2 hour listening to my standard suite of test tracks over AAC from a Shanling m0.
> 
> 1) It was comfortable for me.  A bit of pressure in one ear, but probably could adjust it to eliminate that one pain point.  Better than most true wireless iems.  They looked good, and were very safely held in my ear.
> 
> ...



I'm happy for the #1 and #2 here but the LDAC thing just made me laugh because first off I found the 1000XM3 to sound lacking compared to several others due to how digitally processed the sound is (the VModa sounds better over SBC for pete's sake), but secondly because the idea that you can hear LDAC vs aptX is just hilarious. LDAC is nice and all, but since aptX is pushing at higher than 320kbps which is already nicely above "transparency" level you're talking pure placebo. I swear it's like people hear some numbers and then Emperor's New Clothes the hell out of themselves.

More than that, comparing a TWE to a full-size and thinking the sound difference was because of the codec and not the myriad other factors? Come on, son.


----------



## webreaper

SomeGuyDude said:


> More than that, comparing a TWE to a full-size and thinking the sound difference was because of the codec and not the myriad other factors? Come on, son.



Maybe the issue was that the edges of the CD hadn't been painted with a green pen.


----------



## webvan (Nov 28, 2018)

Wow, thanks for that blast from the past, had completely forgotten about that green marker business on the edges of CDs !

In TWE news I received my Havit G1s from Amazon.de yesterday and had high expectations based on feedback here...after a day's worth of testing let's just say I'm happy I didn't spend more than 33€ on them.

Here's a quick rundown :
1. Nice packaging, it never hurts
2. Tips are pretty flimsy and not very comfortable, will be back to that later
3. Smart looking charging box. Finding the right position for the buds does take some getting used to and I still haven't found a quick way of taking them out, not a biggie.
4. Quite lacking in terms of features as already noted in this thread : no multiple connections, no transparency mode, no volume control
5. Tips...so with the stock tips I just can't get proper isolation and that's generally a must to get the best possible sound. Unlike on the Jabra Sport Elite where they must have gotten the "wings" idea, the wings are not large/hard enough and don't keep the G1 close enough to the ear canal. I tried a few options, Sony hybrids (better isolation but muted sound and sometimes blocked), SpinFit CP100 (sound gets "blocked", probably due to the way the G1s fit in the ear canal), Comply Tsx-200 (good isolation, very dull sound) and a few others I had hanging around.
6. So back to SQ with the stock tips (and little to no isolation) : well it's pretty decent I must say, some good clarity top to bottom but in the absence of a good seal the bass are a bit lacking, a decent soundstage. I'd put them ahead of the Vigorun TW but behind the Jabra Elite sport, 65T and WF-1000x
7. Got a call while I was trying them at my desk, person could barely hear me, had to switch back to the phone.

At the end of the day they were only 33€ and I don't think they're worth a lot more. The lack of a decent seal is ok for casual listening around the house and might come in handy for running actually since the air isn't trapped in the canal and will not result in the dreaded "thump" on each step. I'll try running with them later this week instead of using my usual Backbeat Fits that have served me well but that provide even less isolation (by design).

EDIT - added "7. Got a call while I was trying them at my desk, person could barely hear me, had to switch back to the phone."


----------



## nc8000

webvan said:


> Wow, thanks for that blast from the past, had completely forgotten about that green marker business on the edges of CDs !
> 
> In TWE news I received my Havit G1s from Amazon.de yesterday and had high expectations based on feedback here...after a day's worth of testing let's just say I'm happy I didn't spend more than 33€ on them.
> 
> ...



Well fit and isolation is always going to be very personal. To me with the medium wing and large stock tips fit is very good and isolation nearly on par with the E8, they are probably more secure than the E8 with SpinFits. I on the other hand couldn’t get a decent fit and isolation with the stock tips on the E8. I would not have been dissapointed with the G1 even had I paid 100-120 USD.


----------



## plisandro

webvan said:


> At the end of the day they were only 33€ and I don't think they're worth a lot more. The lack of a decent seal is ok for casual listening around the house and might come in handy for running actually since the air isn't trapped in the canal and will not result in the dreaded "thump" on each step. I'll try running with them later this week instead of using my usual Backbeat Fits that have served me well but that provide even less isolation (by design).





I'm now between Jabra's 65t and the RHA TrueConnect - i'll be getting either by end of day today. Lack of Qi is killing me but i realized both have cases big enough to be retrofitted with a slim receiver... if i could open it. Anyone seeing screws in their Jabra/RHA cases?


----------



## Cosmosan

mikp said:


> What type of spinfit would fit? would like of try one of those on some of my earbuds
> 
> Some update on the mavin:
> Left it connected to the hiby r3 overnight and it played on medium-low for 7 hours straight. Then connected it to the unihertz atom and reported battery was 57%.
> ...



I also got the Mavin Air-x and I am really liking them. However, is your case hinge also a little flimsy/loose?


----------



## webreaper

Slightly leftfield question - has anyone registered their Sennheiser MTWs? It doesn't seem like that product is available on the Sennheiser product registration page....


----------



## Chrisdu18e (Nov 28, 2018)

Burakk said:


> I really appreciate if smb give an idea about call quality of MW07.


If you are mainly interested of the call quality of TW, I suggest you to see the new jabra 65T, the Evolve. It's more expensive than the active but, even if I don't try it, I think it could be aanswer adapted to your search.
The jabra have the better call quality of TW I had : MW07, Senn, Jabra 65T and 65T active, Sony 1000x


----------



## webvan

Forgot to mention in my Havit G1 rundown that the microphone is very poor, I got a call while I was trying them at my desk, person could barely hear me, had to switch back to the phone.


----------



## Rickyearl

Anyone with E8 have this issue?  I put them in the case last night and this morning the left one is more dead than when I put it in.  I put it back in and still no charging.  Tried and tried but nothing.  Then blew on them (why not?) and the case.  Fixed.

The culprit?  One of the little "pins" that charge the left was covered by a spec of dust.  Not kidding.  It was barely visible on the end of my finger.  Smaller than the pointy end of a stick pin.  I replicated the problem over and over with lint, tiny scraps of paper, even one of my hairs.  It's so sensitive I think you could make it stop working by covering one pin with almost anything - even something like a sharpie mark.

Good to know for those of us who carry them around in our pockets.


----------



## Ocelitgol

mikp said:


> What type of spinfit would fit? would like of try one of those on some of my earbuds
> 
> Some update on the mavin:
> Left it connected to the hiby r3 overnight and it played on medium-low for 7 hours straight. Then connected it to the unihertz atom and reported battery was 57%.
> ...



I use CP100 but it was hard to get it on, so get the ones with bigger diameter. CP100 nozzle seems to be shorter than needed too, so get ones that longer (I cover the bottom part with foam to make up for the short nozzle)

*Update impression for Mavin Air-X: *
- call quality is good (tested in a silent room though)
- i can confirm around _35_ _hrs_ of battery with aptx
- might help with the fit when you push it in while pulling down the bottom part of your ear
- to change device, you have to keep pressing either button until you hear a_ double tone _(I found out that while pressing: 1 tone = pause; 2 tone = connect mode; 3 tone = turn off that earbud)
- sound with stock tips = high treble, barely any sub-bass, wide sound-stage (quite surprising for my experience), mid is good, mediocre imaging
- sound with Dekoni  / Comply foam = mellow high, more impact bass, a little warmer
*keep in mind I'm rating the sound based on their_ price range_. It's quite good for my taste with this price. Certainly beat out Jabra Elite 65T Active IMO


I will keep using this for another week until my TRN BT20 MMCX adapter come.....I have a special project for these and will update with pictures if anyone is interested.

I pair Mavin with s8+ and Shangling M0....connection seems solid but it does drop sometimes. Not that much though.


----------



## nc8000

webvan said:


> Forgot to mention in my Havit G1 rundown that the microphone is very poor, I got a call while I was trying them at my desk, person could barely hear me, had to switch back to the phone.



Yes the mic is not fantastic and neither is the one in the E8, but I made 2 calls each of 10-15 minutes while out walking and I could hear everything and the opposite party didn’t complain that they had trouble hearing me however I don’t like that the call only goes to the right unit, much prefer to hear sound in both ears. But for me the call side is not very important, I probably only do 1 or 2 per week at most


----------



## webvan

Yes one side only is not great but still usable, not really a "con". I could hear the person on the other side fine, they could barely make out what I was saying though.

Same problem with the Vigorun and to some extent with the WF-1000x (they worked but I sounded "distant") I never had any comments with the Jabras (both SE and 65t) even outdoors in windy conditions.


----------



## nc8000

webvan said:


> Yes one side only is not great but still usable, not really a "con". I could hear the person on the other side fine, they could barely make out what I was saying though.
> 
> Same problem with the Vigorun and to some extent with the WF-1000x (they worked but I sounded "distant") I never had any comments with the Jabras (both SE and 65t) even outdoors in windy conditions.



Well Jabfra come from call headsets so I would expect them to be amongst the best in this respect


----------



## mikp

Cosmosan said:


> I also got the Mavin Air-x and I am really liking them. However, is your case hinge also a little flimsy/loose?



when open? yes a little but when closed it does not open.


----------



## mikp

stormers said:


> I use CP100 but it was hard to get it on, so get the ones with bigger diameter. CP100 nozzle seems to be shorter than needed too, so get ones that longer (I cover the bottom part with foam to make up for the short nozzle)
> 
> - to change device, you have to keep pressing either button until you hear a_ double tone _(I found out that while pressing: 1 tone = pause; 2 tone =



ok, changing from paired devices you mean?


----------



## Ocelitgol

mikp said:


> ok, changing from paired devices you mean?


yes....sorry i didn't make that clear


----------



## mikp

stormers said:


> yes....sorry i didn't make that clear



ok, for me two tones equals pairing and three tones is off. So you can power them on and off.

No mention of that in the manual,- but with that battery these can be taken on trips without the case.


----------



## Cosmosan

mikp said:


> when open? yes a little but when closed it does not open.



I mean when closed, is there a little play or wiggle at the hinge? The case doesn't actually open and stays closed with the magnet.


----------



## ebrandon (Nov 28, 2018)

SomeGuyDude said:


> I'm happy for the #1 and #2 here but the LDAC thing just made me laugh because first off I found the 1000XM3 to sound lacking compared to several others due to how digitally processed the sound is (the VModa sounds better over SBC for pete's sake), but secondly because the idea that you can hear LDAC vs aptX is just hilarious. LDAC is nice and all, but since aptX is pushing at higher than 320kbps which is already nicely above "transparency" level you're talking pure placebo. I swear it's like people hear some numbers and then Emperor's New Clothes the hell out of themselves.
> 
> More than that, comparing a TWE to a full-size and thinking the sound difference was because of the codec and not the myriad other factors? Come on, son.



I don't appreciate the tone of your reply.  I was helpfully trying to share my impressions with the community here, and you are attacking me.  Additionally, don't call me "son".  It's rude to do it to anyone, and it's especially rude to do it to me because I'm probably older than you.  It's a weak "power move" and I won't stand for it.

Secondly, I can hear extremely clearly the difference between AAC and LDAC on my 1000XM3.  That's not the apples-to-oranges comparison you falsely accused me of - that's two different codecs on the same headphone.  The AAC has some tizziness in the highs and some flabbiness in the lows that the LDAC doesn't have.  I'd say you're in the small minority who thinks LDAC HD doesn't have better sound quality than SBC/AAC/APTX and as such you'd be well served to express your fringe opinions with a little more humility.

I suspect you're listening to lossy, low-bitrate, files or streams and it's entirely possible that they don't sound better over LDAC than over SBC/AAC/APTX.  I'm listening to uncompressed files and the difference is clear.  Don't assume everyone is doing things the way you do.

Thirdly, you completely missed my point.  Go back and read my post.  I didn't compare the sound of the TWM with the full size.  I said that the TWM were good enough that listening to them put me in a music-listening mood, and that using them made me wish I were listening to my full-size headphones, or wired iems.  That's not a comparison, that's a description of the experience of listening to the TWM.


----------



## clerkpalmer

@SomeGuyDude, I will say that using tidal hi-fi on my Mobius I could tell the difference between AAC and LDAC over a Note 9. You may have a fair point about whether the difference could be noticed on something like the Active 65T using Apple Music or Spotify and I don't know the answer to that.  I also agree with others upthread that the codec itself is not going to make the headphone.  For instance, many have commented on the good SQ of the true connect without aptx (although it appears it secretly may have AAC) and my own experience with the PSB TW1 which uses SBC only confirms that headphones can sound good without advanced codes.  My guess is in the TW space right now, AAC and Aptx are probably fine and any gains from LDAC or AptxHD are probably not worth the cost/chipset effort etc.  I also think completely omitting Aptx or AAC at any price point is a mistake and yes, I'm pointing at you RHA.


----------



## plisandro

FWIW i can totally tell the difference between AptX and AAC on my cheap KZ MMCX bluetooth cable, to the point that i find myself digging into my phone's BT settings immediately if the later is not selected.


----------



## clerkpalmer (Nov 28, 2018)

plisandro said:


> FWIW i can totally tell the difference between AptX and AAC on my cheap KZ MMCX bluetooth cable, to the point that i find myself digging into my phone's BT settings immediately if the later is not selected.


Which do you prefer?  My understanding is that AAC and Aptx are pretty damn close but I thought I read somewhere maybe that AAC over Android may not sound as good as AAC over iPhone.  Edit, I see you prefer Aptx to AAC.  That's one that surprises me a bit since by all accounts they are very close to one another.


----------



## plisandro

clerkpalmer said:


> Which do you prefer?  My understanding is that AAC and Aptx are pretty damn close but I thought I read somewhere maybe that AAC over Android may not sound as good as AAC over iPhone.  Edit, I see you prefer Aptx to AAC.  That's one that surprises me a bit since by all accounts they are very close to one another.



*Maybe *it's the cable itself (which i pair with a Pixel 3), but AAC sounds much better at the same bitrate to my ears.


----------



## clerkpalmer

plisandro said:


> *Maybe *it's the cable itself (which i pair with a Pixel 3), but AAC sounds much better at the same bitrate to my ears.


I see. Poor reading comprehension by me. That is what I would have expected.


----------



## james444 (Nov 29, 2018)

At maximum bitrate, SBC, aptX and AAC artifacts will all be below the threshold of human perception. However, aptX and AAC have more headroom in sound quality, so any fallback to lower bitrates (e.g. due to limited CPU resources, low wireless signal strength, or high wireless interference) will result in relatively better perceived sound quality for the latter codecs.

http://soundexpert.org/encoders-320-kbps


----------



## Cosmosan

stormers said:


> I use CP100 but it was hard to get it on, so get the ones with bigger diameter. CP100 nozzle seems to be shorter than needed too, so get ones that longer (I cover the bottom part with foam to make up for the short nozzle)
> 
> *Update impression for Mavin Air-X: *
> - call quality is good (tested in a silent room though)
> ...



35 hours battery life? Wow. Is that including recharge cycles with the case?


----------



## webreaper

Cosmosan said:


> 35 hours battery life? Wow. Is that including recharge cycles with the case?


According to the website (https://www.mavinlife.com/) it's 10 hours per charge, and the case has up to 5 charges. Still impressive.


----------



## chinmie

naah.. even using spotify, switching between SBC and APTX (and between APTX to LDAC) on a same bluetooth device, i can hear the difference. 

subtle? yes. but after knowing the difference i will always choose LDAC first, then APTX or AAC over SBC if the device permits it.

will that subtle differences matter or audible in noisy environments? no. I don't think so. even an FM radio is good enough for me for outdoor uses and i don't mind the degraded sound.

but still, if i have the option, then the higher codec for me


----------



## dweaver

I own a couple full size BT headphones. The 1000XM3 and NAD HP70 plus the neckband WI1000X. I can hear differences between the codecs when I switch. The Sony's sound their best from LDAC with a APTx HD following a close 2nd and then AAC, then APTx, and finally SBC. But some of things I notice probably come down to how that codec is implemented versus just the bitrate.  For example I find APTx to have a harsh edge to it which seems to affect the sense of space.

The HP70 on the other hand does only APTx HD, APTx, ACC, and SBC. This headphone sounds best in HD and then AAC again because APTx has that harsh edge or digital quality.

Having said all this. I think these codecs can help a headphone but in the end the headphone still does the real heavy lifting.  If it's not tune right the codecs will not save it. In that vein the 1000xm3 definitely has less detail than many headphones when I started to really compare it to my other headphones I was somewhat dismayed. BUT that design decision also allows it to work well in darned near any configuration because it never offends with harshness. The HP70 on the other hand struggles unless it has optimal codecs and source.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

chinmie said:


> naah.. even using spotify, switching between SBC and APTX (and between APTX to LDAC) on a same bluetooth device, i can hear the difference.
> 
> subtle? yes. but after knowing the difference i will always choose LDAC first, then APTX or AAC over SBC if the device permits it.
> 
> ...



No you can't. I can believe between SBC and aptX because of the noise difference, but that's all. If I took your phone and switched codecs randomly you'd be blind guessing which is which.


----------



## Damieni

Anyone had much of a chance to test the Senn MTW's call performance? Just received my pair and enjoying the sound quality compared to the 65t's and RHA's, only concern is whether they would perform well for taking calls in noiser environments.


----------



## Hoplite

Damieni said:


> Anyone had much of a chance to test the Senn MTW's call performance? Just received my pair and enjoying the sound quality compared to the 65t's and RHA's, only concern is whether they would perform well for taking calls in noiser environments.


Is MTW 2 times better than RHA sqwise?


----------



## chinmie

SomeGuyDude said:


> No you can't. I can believe between SBC and aptX because of the noise difference, but that's all. If I took your phone and switched codecs randomly you'd be blind guessing which is which.



each to their own conclusions then. same can be said about cable changes or amps and anything else happening in audio world. some notice the difference, some don't, and each group will try to push their conclusions to the other group. both are just as bad for me. this is a hobby after all, whatever the person thinks work for them and make them happy

my wife can't tell the difference between dragonfly red output to the phone's output, and even when she really listens critically and found the difference, the price jump is not realistic for her. same goes to that magic stickers and rubber balls that audiophiles using. i can tell the difference, but on that case the difference is too small and the price is not realistic for me.

if you switch codec randomly, of course i would have a hard time knowing the difference, because as i said it is subtle and not a deciding factor. 

i used to do recording and mixing. sometimes the client wants EQ changes that i think unnecessary, so i hold the EQ pot while saying "how's this? better?", and they usually would say yes...  even though i didnt really turn the pot at all. 

I'd take an earphone with good tuning and fitting but SBC only any day than something not of my preference but have LDAC capabilities. it would be good if it has, but other things are more important

for TWs, the order of importance for me is connection stability, fitting, battery life, then sound quality, button functions and ambient mode


----------



## firewatersun

Damieni said:


> Anyone had much of a chance to test the Senn MTW's call performance? Just received my pair and enjoying the sound quality compared to the 65t's and RHA's, only concern is whether they would perform well for taking calls in noiser environments.



Have had a few phone calls - you'll probably want to up your volume, call volume is much less than music. Audio quality is also not great at all, not sure if it's my phone settings, but clarity isn't amazing, and neither is your voice.

That said, it definitely works even in loud-ish environments, it's just not as good as some other TW headphones I've used (e8, Bragi Headphone wer both much better)


----------



## Damieni

Hoplite said:


> Is MTW 2 times better than RHA sqwise?


All relative however I find them to be much more dynamic. The fact that Senn has a dedicated application and the ability to perform FW updates helps to future-proof them a bit too.



firewatersun said:


> Have had a few phone calls - you'll probably want to up your volume, call volume is much less than music. Audio quality is also not great at all, not sure if it's my phone settings, but clarity isn't amazing, and neither is your voice.
> 
> That said, it definitely works even in loud-ish environments, it's just not as good as some other TW headphones I've used (e8, Bragi Headphone wer both much better)


Thanks, I did notice that I had to crank the volume most of the way up in calls! Had previously tried the Anker Liberty Lite as a cheapo entry level TW earphone however the call quality was rubbish when outdoors near traffic.


----------



## kellte2

Damieni said:


> All relative however I find them to be much more dynamic. The fact that Senn has a dedicated application and the ability to perform FW updates helps to future-proof them a bit too.
> 
> 
> Thanks, I did notice that I had to crank the volume most of the way up in calls! Had previously tried the Anker Liberty Lite as a cheapo entry level TW earphone however the call quality was rubbish when outdoors near traffic.



Wonder if the low call volume can be ironed out in a firmware update.


----------



## nc8000

SomeGuyDude said:


> No you can't. I can believe between SBC and aptX because of the noise difference, but that's all. If I took your phone and switched codecs randomly you'd be blind guessing which is which.



Why is it so important to you to tell him what he can or can’t hear and how in the world have you any way of knowing what he can hear ?

The only thing you have any right to say is what you can hear.


----------



## albau (Nov 29, 2018)

albau said:


> Unfortunately bad fit seems to be the case for me as well. But not because of the discomfort, but because I simply can't find proper fit, at least with supplied tips and fins. As you I have rather big ears, mine are also soft (to avoid word floppy ). Also as for you the SQ is all what I want in wireless IEMs. I know the sound is there because if I press the buds with fingers I can hear the good vibe with decent soundstage, non-boomy but present bass that doesn't bleed into mids, forward and clear mids and sufficiently detailed treble (maybe sometimes too hot for my liking on certain tracks). The best combo I found is XL stock tips and a big fin. This combo stays secure when I'm vigorously working the elliptical trainer or when lying on a press bench. Problem is with isolation, as evident by the need to manually press the buds into my ears to get optimal sound. Otherwise it becomes quite unbalanced - booming bass and too bright highs with sibilant vocals. I ordered some large SpinFits to see if they'll rectify the issue. If not, my MW07 will go back where they came from, though in all honesty I like almost everything else about them.


Well, turns out news about untimely demise of my mw07 were greatly exaggerated. Today I’ve got SpinFits and I’m a happy camper now! Ordered two types, both in in L - CP100Z and CP240 (double-flange). Both make huge difference for me in fit and isolation, and naturally as a result in sq, vs stock XL tips. CP240 is a little better in isolation and sound, but alas I had to reject them because they don’t fit in the case, lid just wouldn’t close. It’s same damn situation as with 65t case, you have to use short eartips. How hard it was for both Jabra and M&D to make the case some 3mm less shallow? Anyway, with CP100Z sitting snug in my ears I finally can hear all the potential of mw07! 3 hours on a charge or not but I just can’t return back something that sounds this good - engaging, dynamic, spacious and detailed. Very invigorating signature for the gym. No more relatively muddy mids, confined presentation of 65t and need to eq them. I even did a/b with my wired Westone W20 and to my ears mw07 beats them on most types of music except for classical. Of course my other wired iem set, Westone 4, is a different story. But still mw07 cured the Senn envy .


----------



## eirunoopi

albau said:


> Well, turns out news about untimely demise of my mw07 were greatly exaggerated. Today I’ve got SpinFits and I’m a happy camper now! Ordered two types, both in in L - CP100Z and CP240 (double-flange). Both make huge difference for me in fit and isolation, and naturally as a result in sq, vs stock XL tips. CP240 is a little better in isolation and sound, but alas I had to reject them because they don’t fit in the case, lid just wouldn’t close. It’s same damn situation as with 65t case, you have to use short eartips. How hard it was for both Jabra and M&D to make the case some 3mm less shallow? Anyway, with CP100Z sitting snug in my ears I finally can hear all the potential of mw07! 3 hours on a charge or not but I just can’t return back something that sounds this good - engaging, dynamic, spacious and detailed. Very invigorating signature for the gym. No more relatively muddy mids, confined presentation of 65t and need to eq them. I even did a/b with my wired Westone W20 and to my ears mw07 beats them on most types of music except for classical. Of course my other wired iem set, Westone 4, is a different story. But still mw07 cured the Senn envy .



Oh no. Now I’m trying to decide whether I should return mine or try out the CP100Z SpinFits. I’ve only got 2 more days until I can return them... 

With these new tips, are they more comfortable? The wings also dig into my ears and I’m wondering if these will fix that problem. How have they changed the sound signature? And do they isolate well? 

Cheers


----------



## webreaper

chinmie said:


> each to their own conclusions then. same can be said about cable changes or amps and anything else happening in audio world. some notice the difference, some don't, and each group will try to push their conclusions to the other group. both are just as bad for me. this is a hobby after all, whatever the person thinks work for them and make them happy



The point he's making is that a lot of this is audiophile nonsense, that's been prevalent for years and in many cases is utterly absurd. There's a huge amount of selection bias and placebo going on - and that drives peoples' thoughts that they can hear differences, when actually they can't. Unless the differences are very significant, the only way to be absolutely sure is a double-blind test. I think it would be really interesting if you ran a double-blind test to see if you could identify the differences between the codecs. My hunch is that in most cases you wouldn't, but it would be interesting to find out. 



nc8000 said:


> Why is it so important to you to tell him what he can or can’t hear and how in the world have you any way of knowing what he can hear?


Because it's really important to cut through the chaff and get to the crux of the matter. When people are saying they can distinguish between the undistinguishable, it makes any thread like this ("are x better than why? If so how?") utterly pointless and useless. It's been a pervasive problem with audiophiles for decades (hence my 'green pen' comment, which will have gone over many of your heads). People who claim to be able to tell the difference between one high-end interconnect cable or another. People who put high-9 copper power supply cables onto their kit, and claim it makes a difference (despite their house wiring being a bit of crappy cheap domestic electric cable). People who buy ridiculously expensive HDMI cables (https://www.amazon.co.uk/AudioQuest-Diamond-HDMI-Black-Cable/dp/B003CT79OQ) or other gold-plated digital interconnects. And people who believe that a different brand of HDD in their NAS genuinely has any perceptible effect on sound quality (http://www.enjoythemusic.com/hificritic/vol5_no3/listening_to_storage.htm).


----------



## webvan

Talking of blind tests there is a module in Foobar to do exactly that and I'd encourage anyone to give it a try, even with a lot of patience and concentration it's hard to distinguish between samples that should be obvious according to some "experts", say MP3@320 and FLAC


----------



## james444

webreaper said:


> I think it would be really interesting if you ran a double-blind test to see if you could identify the differences between the codecs. My hunch is that in most cases you wouldn't, but it would be interesting to find out.





webvan said:


> Talking of blind tests there is a module in Foobar to do exactly that and I'd encourage anyone to give it a try, even with a lot of patience and concentration it's hard to distinguish between samples that should be obvious according to some "experts", say MP3@320 and FLAC



The page I linked to in my last post consists of live ratings from such tests:
http://soundexpert.org/encoders-320-kbps

You can download test files, contribute your own grade and help the rating become more accurate:
http://soundexpert.org/testing-room



james444 said:


> At maximum bitrate, SBC, aptX and AAC artifacts will all be below the threshold of human perception. However, aptX and AAC have more headroom in sound quality, so any fallback to lower bitrates (e.g. due to limited CPU resources, low wireless signal strength, or high wireless interference) will result in relatively better perceived sound quality for the latter codecs.
> 
> http://soundexpert.org/encoders-320-kbps


----------



## nc8000

webreaper said:


> The point he's making is that a lot of this is audiophile nonsense, that's been prevalent for years and in many cases is utterly absurd. There's a huge amount of selection bias and placebo going on - and that drives peoples' thoughts that they can hear differences, when actually they can't. Unless the differences are very significant, the only way to be absolutely sure is a double-blind test. I think it would be really interesting if you ran a double-blind test to see if you could identify the differences between the codecs. My hunch is that in most cases you wouldn't, but it would be interesting to find out.
> 
> 
> Because it's really important to cut through the chaff and get to the crux of the matter. When people are saying they can distinguish between the undistinguishable, it makes any thread like this ("are x better than why? If so how?") utterly pointless and useless. It's been a pervasive problem with audiophiles for decades (hence my 'green pen' comment, which will have gone over many of your heads). People who claim to be able to tell the difference between one high-end interconnect cable or another. People who put high-9 copper power supply cables onto their kit, and claim it makes a difference (despite their house wiring being a bit of crappy cheap domestic electric cable). People who buy ridiculously expensive HDMI cables (https://www.amazon.co.uk/AudioQuest-Diamond-HDMI-Black-Cable/dp/B003CT79OQ) or other gold-plated digital interconnects. And people who believe that a different brand of HDD in their NAS genuinely has any perceptible effect on sound quality (http://www.enjoythemusic.com/hificritic/vol5_no3/listening_to_storage.htm).



So in other words you are saying that your oppinion is what is fact and what anybody else is saying or hearing is wrong if it does not agree with your oppinion ?

Who appointed you the ruler here ?


----------



## webreaper (Nov 29, 2018)

nc8000 said:


> So in other words you are saying that your oppinion is what is fact and what anybody else is saying or hearing is wrong if it does not agree with your oppinion ? Who appointed you the ruler here ?


No, I'm not saying that at all - I don't think you read my post. I'm merely saying that people should be careful about stating that they can hear differences, when placebo effect is a very real thing. You might _think _you're hearing an improvement, but unless it's double-blind, you can't be certain. Your own ears can trick you.

The _only_ way to compare for these sorts of subtle effects is with a double-blind test. If you've double-blinded, and can hear the difference between two different codecs, all power to you. But if you're just saying "don't buy product X because it doesn't use codec y and so sounds terrible", please caveat your comment with "but it wasn't a double-blind test, so I could be wrong". If you genuinely believe that you don't need to double-blind to remove selection bias, then you should probably go and do a double-blind test. You'll probably be surprised. I was - used to spend money on expensive interconnects and did the 'green pen' thing, until somebody explained it to me (a hifi shop, of all places). I double-blinded, and realised that I couldn't tell the difference at all, and that I was subconsciously hearing improvements when I connected up more expensive kit. Read the NAS article, and see for yourself. It's utterly bonkers - as is the fact that people pay hundreds of dollars for digital interconnects to 'improve sound quality', which is a scientific farce.

We all do it, implicitly, it's part of human nature. It's the same reason your car feels like it's quicker and smoother when you've just washed it - despite that having zero effect on performance.

Instead of throwing around accusations about people "appointing themselves ruler", maybe consider whether you're entirely unbiased on this. Historically, I've found that people (including myself) go through a sort of 'discovery rage' and push back when they realise that, through a double-blind test, the "huge improvements" they thought they were hearing simply don't exist. But once you realise the facts, you'll be happier because you'll understand that some money you're spending could be better saved because it literally makes no discernable difference.

But anyway, I wasn't meaning to offend you, and if you've taken offense, I apologise. We're here for mutual appreciation and discovery of good kit - there's no sense arguing over it. Keep it fun, eh?


----------



## chinmie

webreaper said:


> The point he's making is that a lot of this is audiophile nonsense, that's been prevalent for years and in many cases is utterly absurd. There's a huge amount of selection bias and placebo going on - and that drives peoples' thoughts that they can hear differences, when actually they can't. Unless the differences are very significant, the only way to be absolutely sure is a double-blind test. I think it would be really interesting if you ran a double-blind test to see if you could identify the differences between the codecs. My hunch is that in most cases you wouldn't, but it would be interesting to find out.



yup. and what i want to say is that just because we can't hear any difference doesn't mean the other party is lying. it's just like different shades of green: some might only say dark and light green, while others will name several other. did the former not see the difference? they might in fact actually see the difference, but to them not extreme enough to warrant a "registered change". 

some says cable changes nothing. me? i know it changes something, but does it justify me buying thousands of dollars worth of cables? not for me. and i don't bash the people who do buy it, because they have the budget to justify it. 

this is mostly talks similar to the realm of religion talk. there's no end to this, and nothing is gained from debating it, so I'll be quiet about this from now

on the side note, I've just received the Sabbat X12pro, nice openback sound like an earbud, especially for the price. support AAC, and battery is promised to be 6 hours, but I'm still doing some testing.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

nc8000 said:


> Why is it so important to you to tell him what he can or can’t hear and how in the world have you any way of knowing what he can hear ?
> 
> The only thing you have any right to say is what you can hear.



Like another poster said, when people are claiming they can hear differences that are physically inaudible, they are going to be giving purchase advice to others based on that, and people are going to end up wasting money on crap they don't need.

When posters around here play Emperor's New Clothes with codecs, bitrate, and snake oil cables and whatever else, it just supports the whole industry of carnies suckering audiophiles into emptying their wallets on garbage. You'll end up with people who are fairly new asking questions and thinking that they're getting shortchanged if they don't buy a product without this-or-that, when it's wholly unnecessary in the first place. 

You can't hear LDAC. You just can't. A 256kbps mp3 is at transparency levels, 320 is absolutely indistinguishable in any blind test, what good do you think 990 is doing? It's no different than the garbage about expensive cables and burn-in. It's all voodoo, and it's making the hobby a complete quagmire of jargon and BS where shady companies can make a whole ton of money and people end up with gear that cost more than it should and isn't fitting their needs like something half the price could have. 

It drives me up a damn wall because I'm seeing this hobby turn into a pointless numbers race all based on hokum that can't be heard anyway. DACs are touting how they can play at 96/384, everyone's screeching about how if you don't have FLACs then your high-end headphones are a waste of time, and I can just TASTE the day when people insist that if your Bluetooth set doesn't transmit in some new codec that goes at several MBps that they can totally hear it you guys.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

nc8000 said:


> So in other words you are saying that your oppinion is what is fact and what anybody else is saying or hearing is wrong if it does not agree with your oppinion ?
> 
> Who appointed you the ruler here ?



That isn't even close to what he said. If you're gonna throw a hissy fit at someone at least actually read what they write before replying.


----------



## plisandro

Getting things back on track, i finally broke and ordered RHA's Trueconnect - found a nice discount online in a Swiss site. Will report back once i give it a try.


----------



## nc8000

SomeGuyDude said:


> Like another poster said, when people are claiming they can hear differences that are physically inaudible, they are going to be giving purchase advice to others based on that, and people are going to end up wasting money on **** they don't need.
> 
> When posters around here play Emperor's New Clothes with codecs, bitrate, and snake oil cables and whatever else, it just supports the whole industry of carnies suckering audiophiles into emptying their wallets on garbage. You'll end up with people who are fairly new asking questions and thinking that they're getting shortchanged if they don't buy a product without this-or-that, when it's wholly unnecessary in the first place.
> 
> ...



So because you can’t hear differences and don’t believe they exist it is emperors new clothes and snake oil when somebody else say they can hear differences as you are the ultimate authority. I get it


----------



## webreaper

Let's move on. 

I took my Senns out for the first time today (I haven't left the house since I've had them...) and was pleasantly surprised at how secure the fit was, how comfortable they were (hardly felt them) and how good they sounded while out and about. The other thing I was impressed at was that I could put my phone in any of the four pockets (left, right, front, back) in my jeans and had no signal loss. The Jabras (and the PlusSound) used to start getting disconnect 'clicks' if I had the phone in the opposite pocket to the receiver (e.g., back left pocket, with the plussound unit on my right). So the connectivity is pretty rock-solid. 

The other thing I was impressed at was the transparent mode - I used it when having a conversation with a person in a shop, and was able to hear them totally clearly, and at much better volume than with the Jabras.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

nc8000 said:


> So because you can’t hear differences and don’t believe they exist it is emperors new clothes and snake oil when somebody else say they can hear differences as you are the ultimate authority. I get it



So because you don't know what you're talking about you're gonna throw widdle babby temper tantrums at people. Roger that. Godspeed.


----------



## chinmie

4:30 hours and counting. listening to music and occasional youtubes. i really like this for factor for home use, not much of noise blocking at all, like the earbuds form factor that i really like. good overall tuning and airy soundstage. 

it sits flush on my ears like the earin (much more flush than the jabra). it can go in my helmet much better too, but i have to test this, because i prefer iems while riding to block noise. 

let see if it lives up to the promise of 6-7 hours playtime


----------



## jeffri (Nov 29, 2018)

I'll just leave this here: https://www.soundguys.com/ultimate-guide-to-bluetooth-headphones-20019/

It isn't as simple as bitrate with Bluetooth codec. This isn't a simple lossy vs lossless comparison.

Also the aptX, aptX HD and SBC comparison: https://www.soundguys.com/the-ultimate-guide-to-bluetooth-aptx-and-aptx-hd-19914/

As the graph and measurement suggest, the noise level can be audible between different codecs. Frequency cut out is something I wouldn't worry about though.


----------



## webvan

chinmie said:


> 4:30 hours and counting. listening to music and occasional youtubes. i really like this for factor for home use, not much of noise blocking at all, like the earbuds form factor that i really like. good overall tuning and airy soundstage.
> 
> it sits flush on my ears like the earin (much more flush than the jabra). it can go in my helmet much better too, but i have to test this, because i prefer iems while riding to block noise.
> 
> let see if it lives up to the promise of 6-7 hours playtime



What model is this ?


----------



## chinmie

webvan said:


> What model is this ?



Sabbat X12 Pro


----------



## korefuji

hoping these samurai earbuds make it

https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/samurai-ears-japan-s-best-quality-wireless-earbuds/x/1744243#/

It's looking touch and go if they do, halfway there 17 days to go


----------



## james444

chinmie said:


> ... not much of noise blocking at all, like the earbuds form factor that i really like. good overall tuning and airy soundstage.



How's the sub bass extension? That's usually the weakness of non-isolating designs.


----------



## nc8000

SomeGuyDude said:


> So because you don't know what you're talking about you're gonna throw widdle babby temper tantrums at people. Roger that. Godspeed.



Seems like we understand each other completely


----------



## korefuji

I contacted spinfit for alt tips for the Senn TWM's and got this response



> Thanks for contacting us!
> 
> 
> 
> The best eartip recommendation for Sennheiser True momentum wireless is *CP360 *(soon to be released).  CP100Z also has a similar design to CP360 which you may consider trying!


----------



## chinmie

james444 said:


> How's the sub bass extension? That's usually the weakness of non-isolating designs.



it's got good amount of bass and midbass, but subbass is not too pronounced. for EDM some might find the bass not enough. i don't have a problem with the bass though. I'd say it's like listening to Koss Ksc75 but with more bass


----------



## albau (Nov 29, 2018)

eirunoopi said:


> Oh no. Now I’m trying to decide whether I should return mine or try out the CP100Z SpinFits. I’ve only got 2 more days until I can return them...
> With these new tips, are they more comfortable? The wings also dig into my ears and I’m wondering if these will fix that problem. How have they changed the sound signature? And do they isolate well? Cheers


Sorry, for giving you false hopes, mate . Your main problem seems to be with fins digging in. I don't think different eartips will help with it. Did you try without fins at all? For me large fins are fine, my beef wasn't with comfort. Just couldn't get proper isolation with any of the stock tips. CP100Z-L have similar size and general shape as stock XLs, but somehow they are better married to my ear canals, giving better isolation and security while feeling comfortable. Guess all this patented stuff SpinFit brags about has its merits. And to answer your other question. Of course better isolation changes overall sound signature. With stock tips my mw07 sounded unbalanced with exaggerated bass and piercing highs. With CP100Z-L which go deeper into the ear canal and fill it without popping out, all pieces of the puzzle clicked into each other. Strong but textured bass, highs got tamed while still retaining details, mids are no longer sullied by the bleeding midbass.


----------



## webvan (Nov 29, 2018)

chinmie said:


> 4:30 hours and counting. listening to music and occasional youtubes. i really like this for factor for home use, not much of noise blocking at all, like the earbuds form factor that i really like. good overall tuning and airy soundstage.
> 
> it sits flush on my ears like the earin (much more flush than the jabra). it can go in my helmet much better too, but i have to test this, because i prefer iems while riding to block noise.
> 
> let see if it lives up to the promise of 6-7 hours playtime





chinmie said:


> Sabbat X12 Pro


Thanks, so no tips, some type of hard plastic like the EarPods/AirPods or rubber on the Backbeat Fit? Some models are pretty colorful too


----------



## chinmie

webvan said:


> Thanks, so no tips, some type of hard plastic like the EarPods/AirPods or rubber on the Backbeat Fit? Some models are pretty colorful too



yup, airpod type insertion. there's rubber sleeves included for sport, but it fits fine for me even without it.


----------



## chinmie

battery testing done. let say cut one hour for a few times i paused the music for talking to my kid and one time i put it back to the case for 5 seconds to reset. 

still impressive in my book. that's around 2 hours more than the jabra


----------



## Spamateur

I wonder when Audio Technical is going to release their TW models. They sounded promising (6 hours of battery life for the non-sport model). It looks like they're on sale in Japan already, and a few of the translated reviews I've seen look promising, although a lot of the impressions were unintelligible despite Google Translate's best efforts. They're available to be purchased at inflated rates from sellers in eBay and Amazon and shipped to the US, but at a $70-100 markup.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

Spamateur said:


> I wonder when Audio Technical is going to release their TW models. They sounded promising (6 hours of battery life for the non-sport model). It looks like they're on sale in Japan already, and a few of the translated reviews I've seen look promising, although a lot of the impressions were unintelligible despite Google Translate's best efforts. They're available to be purchased at inflated rates from sellers in eBay and Amazon and shipped to the US, but at a $70-100 markup.



It's weird, to me, that the sport model both lacks aptX _and_ has worse battery life.


----------



## korefuji

Spamateur said:


> I wonder when Audio Technical is going to release their TW models. They sounded promising (6 hours of battery life for the non-sport model). It looks like they're on sale in Japan already, and a few of the translated reviews I've seen look promising, although a lot of the impressions were unintelligible despite Google Translate's best efforts. They're available to be purchased at inflated rates from sellers in eBay and Amazon and shipped to the US, but at a $70-100 markup.



I was told by ATH that they will release the Sport in November, and the non sport in Dec/an


----------



## Spamateur

SomeGuyDude said:


> It's weird, to me, that the sport model both lacks aptX _and_ has worse battery life.



Yeah the Sport model's feature inconsistency seems like they had two completely separate development teams working on it. I guess I appreciate that they're releasing models that are clearly delineated between enthusiast vs workout markets, and the $50 price point difference reflects that. It's nice to see a product strategy that isn't "one size fits all" in the TW space.


----------



## hifi80sman

Spamateur said:


> I wonder when Audio Technical is going to release their TW models. They sounded promising (6 hours of battery life for the non-sport model). It looks like they're on sale in Japan already, and a few of the translated reviews I've seen look promising, although a lot of the impressions were unintelligible despite Google Translate's best efforts. They're available to be purchased at inflated rates from sellers in eBay and Amazon and shipped to the US, but at a $70-100 markup.


I assume you meant Audio-Technica. 

They ALWAYS release in Japan first and my guess is because they are a private Japanese company vs. Sony which has a major U.S. division and is publicly traded on the NYSE.


----------



## n20nine

Sennheiser has released another update to its app, promising bug fixes. Going to monitor if there’s any improvement.


----------



## korefuji

n20nine said:


> Sennheiser has released another update to its app, promising bug fixes. Going to monitor if there’s any improvement.


Just an app update, but not a firmware update right?

I wrote to sennheiser explaining some of the issues we have faced, or some of us at least, here's their response:



> Thank you for your email. I am sorry to hear you are experiencing issues with your product. Unfortunately there are no firmware updates that I know of. If you feel the headphones are faulty and not performing as described, you can claim a replacement under your 2 year warranty.
> 
> If you would like to do this, please let me know so that I can arrange your returns reference number


----------



## webreaper

n20nine said:


> Sennheiser has released another update to its app, promising bug fixes. Going to monitor if there’s any improvement.


TBH, I wouldn't expect much. The most predictable app update release note in the iOS or android Appstore is "bug fixes and performance improvements".

They probably fixed a minor bug in the phone app....


----------



## Spamateur

Just emailed with Audio Technica USA and got to the following response:

_As of right now, there is no set date for the release of the ATH-CKR7TW.

We have only been informed it will be around late January/early February.
_
Well, that's disappointing.


----------



## n20nine

korefuji said:


> Just an app update, but not a firmware update right?
> 
> I wrote to sennheiser explaining some of the issues we have faced, or some of us at least, here's their response:



I got the same response asking me if I want a replacement. The previous app update improved my charging issues. 



webreaper said:


> TBH, I wouldn't expect much. The most predictable app update release note in the iOS or android Appstore is "bug fixes and performance improvements".
> 
> They probably fixed a minor bug in the phone app....



I found the previous app update reported a better battery life as the first version had haphazard battery life readings for me, at least.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

Spamateur said:


> Yeah the Sport model's feature inconsistency seems like they had two completely separate development teams working on it. I guess I appreciate that they're releasing models that are clearly delineated between enthusiast vs workout markets, and the $50 price point difference reflects that. It's nice to see a product strategy that isn't "one size fits all" in the TW space.



I agree there but it feels a bit misguided. The sport model should have the higher battery life, given that once you're mid-workout the last thing you want to do is throw it into a case for 15 minutes to get more charge. One would assume that the missing aptX is a power saving feature (SBC is more battery friendly), yet it's missing the codec as well as having worse battery, which is confusing.


----------



## Amberlamps

Spamateur said:


> Just emailed with Audio Technica USA and got to the following response:
> 
> _As of right now, there is no set date for the release of the ATH-CKR7TW.
> 
> ...




You think thats disappointing ?

You should see their out of warranty repair fee’s and 2 month turn around times.

Audio Technica, I know it was you fredo, you broke my heart.


----------



## MyrenJobrah

So I have the sennheisers and my biggest concern was the bass. I'm actually pretty satisfied coming from an IE80, and will probably be sending back my vegas. 

My only grip at this point is that the senns aren't loud enough at full volume. Had the same problem with the MW07s..

There also seems to be distortion for the bass at max volume, like static.


----------



## webreaper

MyrenJobrah said:


> My only grip at this point is that the senns aren't loud enough at full volume


What source are you using? My Senns  played through Plex is painfully loud at 60%, and I think at over 80% it would literally damage my hearing. They're almost exactly twice as loud as the Jabras based on my normal listening volume level.


----------



## Spamateur

SomeGuyDude said:


> I agree there but it feels a bit misguided. The sport model should have the higher battery life, given that once you're mid-workout the last thing you want to do is throw it into a case for 15 minutes to get more charge. One would assume that the missing aptX is a power saving feature (SBC is more battery friendly), yet it's missing the codec as well as having worse battery, which is confusing.



Yeah, I forgot to mention the Sport is massively inferior in all respects minus the waterproofing. $50 seems like not that much money to pay for a far superior product.


----------



## MyrenJobrah

webreaper said:


> What source are you using? My Senns  played through Plex is painfully loud at 60%, and I think at over 80% it would literally damage my hearing. They're almost exactly twice as loud as the Jabras based on my normal listening volume level.



How could the source matter if it's over bluetooth? I'm using an Iphone 8.


----------



## webreaper

MyrenJobrah said:


> How could the source matter if it's over bluetooth? I'm using an Iphone 8.


Because different apps play at different volumes. Some have a preamp setting that allows you to increase the overall volume.


----------



## albau (Nov 29, 2018)

webreaper said:


> What source are you using? My Senns  played through Plex is painfully loud at 60%, and I think at over 80% it would literally damage my hearing. They're almost exactly twice as loud as the Jabras based on my normal listening volume level.


Yeah, strange. I keep my mw07 in general at 40-60% out of S8 on below max from Poweramp. And that in extremely noisy weight room  at the gym. Mw07 are definetly go louder than my 65t, though even these were enough on majority of tracks, except for some non-remastered old stuff.


----------



## MyrenJobrah

webreaper said:


> Because different apps play at different volumes. Some have a preamp setting that allows you to increase the overall volume.




Interesting.. I typically use spotify, are you saying I could be getting more noise out of a different app? What could I use?


----------



## webreaper

Plex has a volume boost in its app. You might also want to try Poweramp which has a "preamp" setting.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

Spamateur said:


> Yeah, I forgot to mention the Sport is massively inferior in all respects minus the waterproofing. $50 seems like not that much money to pay for a far superior product.



I admit I'm also less than enamoured with AT's sound sigs in general. I haven't tried their IEMs but the M50 was always dull as dishwater to me, and I've sampled their bluetooth sets which were all treble cannons (although I've heard the DSR9 is good, but... $550). 

As it stands the Senns are the only thing left in my ever-continuing pursuit of the endgame bluetooth arrangement.


----------



## korefuji

strange, I have an iPhone X and can't go beyond 75% without destroying my ear drums


----------



## hifi80sman (Nov 29, 2018)

albau said:


> Yeah, strange. I keep my mw07 in general at 40-60% out of S8 on below max from Poweramp. And that in extremely noisy weight room  at the gym. Mw07 are definetly go louder than my 65t, though even these were enough on majority of tracks, except for some non-remastered old stuff.


Man, I love the MW07, but I'm starting to feel the return bug nibbling at me.  After charging overnight (charger was fully charged and "green"), they only lasted 2.5 hours _*exactly*_ at 40% volume on my iPhone (over SBC).  I also have an LG G6 with aptX, which I assume would have killed it even faster.  Gah!  What shall I do!  I'm thinking about going Jabra Elite Active 65t that's on sale right now for $159.


----------



## MyrenJobrah

korefuji said:


> strange, I have an iPhone X and can't go beyond 75% without destroying my ear drums



I've tried the MW07, the Gear IconX, and now the Senns - all three seem to have reduced volume. Can't be a coincidence.. do I need to update my IOS or something? I don't know if it's the app either because I tried youtube and I get the same volume. 

I highly doubt it's my hearing, I'm only 30.. don't listen to music much outside of the gym. With the campfire vega I do have incredibly high volume where I have to be careful, but not with these bluetooth IEMs..


----------



## MyrenJobrah

I've tried the MW07, the Gear IconX, and now the Senns - all three seem to have reduced volume. Can't be a coincidence.. do I need to update my IOS or something? I don't know if it's the app either because I tried youtube and I get the same volume.

I get the same effect on my ipad, fyi.

I highly doubt it's my hearing, I'm only 30.. don't listen to music much outside of the gym. With the campfire vega I do have incredibly high volume where I have to be careful, but not with these bluetooth IEMs..


----------



## hifi80sman

SomeGuyDude said:


> I admit I'm also less than enamoured with AT's sound sigs in general. I haven't tried their IEMs but the M50 was always dull as dishwater to me, and I've sampled their bluetooth sets which were all treble cannons (although I've heard the DSR9 is good, but... $550).
> 
> As it stands the Senns are the only thing left in my ever-continuing pursuit of the endgame bluetooth arrangement.


Have you tried the M50xBT?  Nice, my friend, nice.


----------



## albau

hifi80sman said:


> Man, I love the MW07, but I'm starting to feel the return bug nibbling at me.  After charging overnight (charger was fully charged and "green"), they only lasted 2.5 hours _*exactly*_ at 40% volume on my iPhone (over SBC).  I alos have an LG G6 with aptX, which I assume would have killed it even faster.  Gah!  What shall I do!  I'm thinking about going Jabra Elite Active 65t that's on sale right now for $159.


Feel your pain, man. But in my usage I never listen more than 2 hours straight. So it's OK with me, even though my mw07 so far last 3 hours plus change. I'm still keeping my 65t as a backup. They are great overall. When switching back from mw07 it's not like going from Etys back to some white bundled buds. More like downgrading from Westone W4 to Westone W20. Still decent experience.


----------



## hifi80sman

MyrenJobrah said:


> I've tried the MW07, the Gear IconX, and now the Senns - all three seem to have reduced volume. Can't be a coincidence.. do I need to update my IOS or something? I don't know if it's the app either because I tried youtube and I get the same volume.
> 
> I get the same effect on my ipad, fyi.
> 
> I highly doubt it's my hearing, I'm only 30.. don't listen to music much outside of the gym. With the campfire vega I do have incredibly high volume where I have to be careful, but not with these bluetooth IEMs..


I'm not sure, brother, but I've tried the Samsung (2018) and currently have the MW07 and there a ZERO volume issues with my iPhone or LG G6 or iPad Pro (10.5" 2017).  I usually go 40% to 50% volume and drowns out noise at the gym, etc.  And I lift, bruh, so it's loud with all the meathead weight droppers.


----------



## hifi80sman

albau said:


> Feel your pain, man. But in my usage I never listen more than 2 hours straight. So it's OK with me, even though my mw07 so far last 3 hours plus change. I'm still keeping my 65t as a backup. They are great overall. When switching back from mw07 it's not like going from Etys back to some white bundled buds. More like downgrading from Westone W4 to Westone W20. Still decent experience.


LOL, love that comparison!  It's actually making me feel good about going to the 65t!  I may have to buy something else, because I can't *just *spend $159!


----------



## SomeGuyDude

hifi80sman said:


> Man, I love the MW07, but I'm starting to feel the return bug nibbling at me.  After charging overnight (charger was fully charged and "green"), they only lasted 2.5 hours _*exactly*_ at 40% volume on my iPhone (over SBC).  I also have an LG G6 with aptX, which I assume would have killed it even faster.  Gah!  What shall I do!  I'm thinking about going Jabra Elite Active 65t that's on sale right now for $159.



Did you try the Senns? I'll say the battery definitely became a dealbreaker on the MW07 for me. I loved literally everything about them in terms of sound, fit, and even style. The battery just rendered them useless for the gym, which is a huge reason I get TWEs. 

Right now I'm back on the Bose Soundsport Free. They just tick the boxes that I need. My saga of dealing with Jabras has turned me away from the brand forever.


----------



## clerkpalmer

hifi80sman said:


> Man, I love the MW07, but I'm starting to feel the return bug nibbling at me.  After charging overnight (charger was fully charged and "green"), they only lasted 2.5 hours _*exactly*_ at 40% volume on my iPhone (over SBC).  I also have an LG G6 with aptX, which I assume would have killed it even faster.  Gah!  What shall I do!  I'm thinking about going Jabra Elite Active 65t that's on sale right now for $159.



Mw07 uses AAC on iPhone not SBC. Either way 2.5 hours sucks.


----------



## albau

clerkpalmer said:


> Mw07 uses AAC on iPhone not SBC. Either way 2.5 hours sucks.


Mine gets 3+ hours so far, but I have it only for one week.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

albau said:


> Mine gets 3+ hours so far, but I have it only for one week.



You've got a unicorn then. Be happy with it, mine started the 20% low-battery alarm in less than 2 hours.


----------



## clerkpalmer

SomeGuyDude said:


> You've got a unicorn then. Be happy with it, mine started the 20% low-battery alarm in less than 2 hours.


 Mine too. My guess is there is a software issue.


----------



## hifi80sman

clerkpalmer said:


> Mw07 uses AAC on iPhone not SBC. Either way 2.5 hours sucks.


Interesting.  The official website just shows aptX as supported.  Review websites are unreliable and some report it does and others that it doesn't.


SomeGuyDude said:


> You've got a unicorn then. Be happy with it, mine started the 20% low-battery alarm in less than 2 hours.


Same here.  Must be the Unicorn with glitter, rainbow poop.


----------



## clerkpalmer

hifi80sman said:


> Interesting.  The official website just shows aptX as supported.  Review websites are unreliable and some report it does and others that it doesn't.
> 
> Same here.  Must be the Unicorn with glitter, rainbow poop.



I asked them directly and posted the response. It’s in the thread somewhere.


----------



## hifi80sman

SomeGuyDude said:


> Did you try the Senns? I'll say the battery definitely became a dealbreaker on the MW07 for me. I loved literally everything about them in terms of sound, fit, and even style. The battery just rendered them useless for the gym, which is a huge reason I get TWEs.
> 
> Right now I'm back on the Bose Soundsport Free. They just tick the boxes that I need. My saga of dealing with Jabras has turned me away from the brand forever.


I have not tried the Senns.  All sold out around me.  I'm sure it's going to be better with the BT 5.0 implementation and 7 mm driver vs. BT 4.2 and 10 mm on the MW07.  I could order online, but I just hate the return shipping process.


----------



## MyrenJobrah

Is there any widely available free way to test if my senns arent playing their loudest?


----------



## clerkpalmer

Having used the senns now for a couple of days, and not to sound like a broken record and not to detract from a very solid package from Sennheiser, I am convinced the mw07 blow them away in terms of sq. I may just buy the mw07 for a third time with a Best Buy product warranty and hope the third times a charm. Any issues Best Buy is easy to deal with if you have a warranty.  The battery and hiss are a concern but the sq is flat out awesome. If the unicorn exists, I want it.


----------



## saketme (Nov 30, 2018)

I've been using the Senn MTW for two days and my ears have been hurting a lot, especially my right ear. Switching to the largest tips have helped a bit, but the pain doesn't seem to go away. I can't tell if it's the weight of the buds or the silicone tips. Can anyone else relate to this experience?

The earbuds weigh 13.2g (both earbuds) which is on par with M&D MW07 and Beoplay E8. However, the Earin M-2 earbuds are far lighter at just 9g. I'm considering returning these and getting Earin M-2 if my pain doesn't go away after a day or two.


----------



## webreaper

saketme said:


> I've been using the Senn MTW for two days and my ears have been hurting a lot, especially my right earbud. Changing the tips have helped a bit, but the pain doesn't seem to go away. I can't tell if it's the weight of the buds or the silicone tips. Can anyone else relate to this experience?



It could just be a general fit and 'ears are weird' issue. So far I've found the Senns to be massively comfortable - to the point where I almost forget they're there at all. The Jabras, on the other hand, did feel a bit achey after 2 hours' of constant use. That said, I've not worn the Senns for longer than about 30 mins so far. I'll be doing my first commute with them on Monday, so will find out if there's any long-term fit/comfort issues then.


----------



## chinmie

saketme said:


> I've been using the Senn MTW for two days and my ears have been hurting a lot, especially my right earbud. Changing the tips have helped a bit, but the pain doesn't seem to go away. I can't tell if it's the weight of the buds or the silicone tips. Can anyone else relate to this experience?
> 
> The earbuds weigh 13.2g (both earbuds) which is on par with M&D MW07 and Beoplay E8. However, the Earin M-2 earbuds are far lighter at just 9g. I'm considering returning these and getting Earin M-2 if my pain doesn't go away after a day or two.



if you really like the sound and can bear a few days, your ears might adjust. the first time i have the jabra i had a hard time using it more than 20 minutes as it hurts one point on my right ear. but after a few days i have no problem wearing it even for hours. I'm glad i didn't return it because I find the jabra my best TW for riding (the sudden way it fixed itself from the imbalance issue also helps alot for deciding to keep it


----------



## saketme

chinmie said:


> if you really like the sound and can bear a few days, your ears might adjust. the first time i have the jabra i had a hard time using it more than 20 minutes as it hurts one point on my right ear. but after a few days i have no problem wearing it even for hours. I'm glad i didn't return it because I find the jabra my best TW for riding (the sudden way it fixed itself from the imbalance issue also helps alot for deciding to keep it



That sounds assuring, thank you.


----------



## nc8000

saketme said:


> That sounds assuring, thank you.



Yes the finns on the G1 hurt my left ear for a few days and when I first got my customs they produced a rub sore in one ear but after about a weeks use the ears adjusted and all have been fine since


----------



## KarimLeVallois

Spamateur said:


> Just emailed with Audio Technica USA and got to the following response:
> 
> _As of right now, there is no set date for the release of the ATH-CKR7TW.
> 
> ...



Meh!


----------



## SomeGuyDude

clerkpalmer said:


> Having used the senns now for a couple of days, and not to sound like a broken record and not to detract from a very solid package from Sennheiser, I am convinced the mw07 blow them away in terms of sq. I may just buy the mw07 for a third time with a Best Buy product warranty and hope the third times a charm. Any issues Best Buy is easy to deal with if you have a warranty.  The battery and hiss are a concern but the sq is flat out awesome. If the unicorn exists, I want it.



Mine were actually hiss free, so if the battery isn't a worry for you I really think the MW07 are the winners atm (haven't tried the AT's, though). I said it before, but it broke my heart giving them back.


----------



## willryan042

Holy crap at the Audio-Technica's being delayed until APRIL. So much for mid-november...



saketme said:


> I've been using the Senn MTW for two days and my ears have been hurting a lot, especially my right ear. Switching to the largest tips have helped a bit, but the pain doesn't seem to go away. I can't tell if it's the weight of the buds or the silicone tips. Can anyone else relate to this experience?
> 
> The earbuds weigh 13.2g (both earbuds) which is on par with M&D MW07 and Beoplay E8. However, the Earin M-2 earbuds are far lighter at just 9g. I'm considering returning these and getting Earin M-2 if my pain doesn't go away after a day or two.



I'd definitely suggest trying the Comply TrueGrip tips if you can. They really helped me get a better fit with the Senn's.


----------



## dweaver

saketme said:


> I've been using the Senn MTW for two days and my ears have been hurting a lot, especially my right ear. Switching to the largest tips have helped a bit, but the pain doesn't seem to go away. I can't tell if it's the weight of the buds or the silicone tips. Can anyone else relate to this experience?
> 
> The earbuds weigh 13.2g (both earbuds) which is on par with M&D MW07 and Beoplay E8. However, the Earin M-2 earbuds are far lighter at just 9g. I'm considering returning these and getting Earin M-2 if my pain doesn't go away after a day or two.


I suspect the weight will not be the real issue. Is the pain in your ear canal or or the concha? The concha is the outer portion of the ear where the bulb of the IEM will reside. If it's the conch try adjusting the position of the shell so it doesn't press on the sore spot as much. If it's the canal then try some different tips. Comply foams might work or if you have any Sony iems kicking around try using their tips as they are one of the most comfortable tips available. If your in the US you can also get some hybrid tips called Auvio I think from Radio Shack that are very comfortable but have a wider opening than the Sony tips so they won't effect the treble as much.


----------



## plisandro (Nov 30, 2018)

So, just got my RHA Trueconnect's delivered for about $160. First impressions after playing with them a couple hours.

The product looks and feels *very* premium. The case is beautiful and the earbuds look great when wore in-ear; it is amazing how much "serious" and sleek they come across when compared to a Airpods with basically the same design approach.
Earbuds are very light and feel fantastic in-ear. After wearing these for a while i'm completely confident they will not fall out by accident.
RHA includes a comprehensive set of silicon & comply tips. I'm using a pair of foam tips i had beforehand and really like though, which had to be slightly cut down to the right tip length; these fitted right in.
They pair right out of the case and disconnect/pause when put back in. No in-ear detection, but it is otherwise seamless.
I can confirm these support AAC; in fact, my Pixel 3 chose that codec right away first time they were paired.
Sound quality is very very nice! Balanced, with a slight v-shape EQ, but great soundstage and sub-bass; so far i cannot detect any obvious distortion artifacts. These are definitely more natural sounding than my 1More Quads, and become uncomfortably loud at about 80-90% volume.
No connection dropouts so far at all. Will report back once i wear these around in the city where EM noise can give Bluetooth some headaches.
Gave YouTube a couple tries and i cannot detect any video/audio lag on either channel. If it is there it's imperceptible to me.
Overall i'm really impressed with this product so far. I wish transparency mode was available and the case supported Qi charging (i might hack this in the near future...) but other than that these seem stellar - specially if SQ is your main concern.


----------



## webvan (Nov 30, 2018)

The RHA sound interesting (didn' t you get TrueGrip Comply tips with yours ?) but at this stage in the game I really don't think it's acceptable for (expensive) TWEs to not offer a transparency mode !



willryan042 said:


> Holy **** at the Audio-Technica's being delayed until APRIL. So much for mid-november...
> 
> I'd definitely suggest trying the Comply TrueGrip tips if you can. They really helped me get a better fit with the Senn's.


Unfortunately TrueGrip tips don't seem to be available in Europe for some reason. I suppose they could be imported from Amazon USA.

About the Havit G1, I've now managed to get pretty decent isolation with the medium tips by ramming them into my canal and twisting (top towards the back and bottom towards the front) hard ! It does make them a bit painful though...With the seal I find them to be really bassy and I normally like bass a lot !


----------



## clerkpalmer

Thanks for the impressions.  It's laughable that RHA pm'd on this forum and told me no AAC support. I can only guess the chipset came with it and either they didn't even know it or they somehow aren't allowed to tout it?  Either way, looks like a nice product.  I'd love to hear comparisons to the 65t.

Those of you with the Senns, can you share your EQ setting?  I'm finding the EQ difficult to maneuver.  If I want v-shaped do I just drag the dot up?


----------



## plisandro

clerkpalmer said:


> It's laughable that RHA pm'd on this forum and told me no AAC support. I can only guess the chipset came with it and either they didn't even know it or they somehow aren't allowed to tout it?  Either way, looks like a nice product.  I'd love to hear comparisons to the 65t.



Maybe it's a licencing issue? You'd be hard pressed to find a BT5.0 chipset today which doesn't support either AptX or AAC, so you pretty much get those for free...


----------



## saketme

dweaver said:


> I suspect the weight will not be the real issue. Is the pain in your ear canal or or the concha? The concha is the outer portion of the ear where the bulb of the IEM will reside. If it's the conch try adjusting the position of the shell so it doesn't press on the sore spot as much. If it's the canal then try some different tips. Comply foams might work or if you have any Sony iems kicking around try using their tips as they are one of the most comfortable tips available. If your in the US you can also get some hybrid tips called Auvio I think from Radio Shack that are very comfortable but have a wider opening than the Sony tips so they won't effect the treble as much.



Feels like canal. I'll try buying comply foam tips. I'd also like to call out that it's a shame Senn isn't bundling foam tips with MTW considering that they're at the higher end of the price spectrum ($300). In contrast, almost every other company like RHA, M&D includes foam tips.


----------



## plisandro

webvan said:


> The RHA sound interesting (didn' t you get TrueGrip Comply tips with yours ?) but at this stage in the game I really don't think it's acceptable for (expensive) TWEs to not offer a transparency mode !



Oh yes, you get a nice assorted set of foam and silicon tips with it. I just happened to have a number of foam tips i like available.


----------



## nc8000

webvan said:


> The RHA sound interesting (didn' t you get TrueGrip Comply tips with yours ?) but at this stage in the game I really don't think it's acceptable for (expensive) TWEs to not offer a transparency mode !
> 
> 
> Unfortunately TrueGrip tips don't seem to be available in Europe for some reason. I suppose they could be imported from Amazon USA.
> ...



Funny that. I’m by no way a bass head and I find the bass just about right when used in normal ambient noise environments so probably a little boosted over neutral


----------



## haveblue

Any idea when the Senns will be back in stock at vendors? Got $50 off of them from Neiman Marcus before they showed as sold out, and customer service gave me no ETA on stock date, although I assume they'll fulfill my order since I placed it when it was still backordered.


----------



## Rickyearl (Nov 30, 2018)

haveblue said:


> Any idea when the Senns will be back in stock at vendors? Got $50 off of them from Neiman Marcus before they showed as sold out, and customer service gave me no ETA on stock date, although I assume they'll fulfill my order since I placed it when it was still backordered.


FWIW, I called their CS yesterday and they still show my backorder being shipped in time to arrive by Dec 3 as stated on the order.  I asked when they thought that meant shipping would happen and they said no later than Saturday (tomorrow). 

I don't have a shipping notice, though.

EDIT - Well, that was cool/creepy.  I just got a "shipping soon" notice and now estimated arrival is Dec.5.  The way it reads it sounds like the MTWs are in their hands and they are preparing them to ship today.


----------



## james444

nc8000 said:


> Funny that. I’m by no way a bass head and I find the bass just about right when used in normal ambient noise environments so probably a little boosted over neutral



Well, I measured them with a full seal and the bass was 10dB above the midrange, which is quite a lot:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/goi...re-we-there-yet.861024/page-154#post-14619901

However, in practice I find it hard to retain a really perfect seal with TW IEMs. And if the seal is ever so slightly loose / leaky, bass emphasis will be less pronounced, which is just about right with the Havit G1.


----------



## nc8000

james444 said:


> Well, I measured them with a full seal and the bass was 10dB above the midrange, which is quite a lot:
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/goi...re-we-there-yet.861024/page-154#post-14619901
> 
> However, in practice I find it hard to retain a really perfect seal with TW IEMs. And if the seal is ever so slightly loose / leaky, bass emphasis will be less pronounced, which is just about right with the Havit G1.



10dB is quit a lot but to me it does not feel that much


----------



## webvan

nc8000 said:


> Funny that. I’m by no way a bass head and I find the bass just about right when used in normal ambient noise environments so probably a little boosted over neutral


They're not unpleasant but the basses are really thundering with the tight seal I now achieve ! You said the one you obtained was pretty good too right from the start ?


----------



## nc8000

webvan said:


> They're not unpleasant but the basses are really thundering with the tight seal I now achieve ! You said yours was pretty good too right from the start ?



Yes I put the large tips on right away and kept the medium finns. Have now used them for 3 weeks in all sorts of environments and am very happy with them and nit a single drop out which was my only real gripe with the E8


----------



## Sharkhunter

haveblue said:


> Any idea when the Senns will be back in stock at vendors? Got $50 off of them from Neiman Marcus before they showed as sold out, and customer service gave me no ETA on stock date, although I assume they'll fulfill my order since I placed it when it was still backordered.


i was chatting with a customer rep yday and said that they should ship out no later than December 10th.


----------



## 05stisilver

Is anyone with the momentum true wireless having trouble with their right earbud responding to touch? Mine will respond to touch for like a minute right when I pull it out of the case but then after that it doesn't respond at all. So if I need to turn the volume up for instance it doesn't do anything. I have done a factory reset but because the right ear bud doesn't respond I can't do the regular reset.


----------



## albau

webvan said:


> at this stage in the game I really don't think it's acceptable for (expensive) TWEs to not offer a transparency mode!


Talk about $300 M&D MW07! Personally I almost never used transparency mode on 65t. But the fact that both RHA and MW07 not only miss this feature but also don't have an app and firmware updates is very strange. It's like if you're a tiny boutique hi-fi house you'll loose your cred if you don't look backward.


----------



## plisandro (Nov 30, 2018)

albau said:


> But the fact that both RHA and MW07 not only miss this feature but also don't have an app and firmware updates is very strange. It's like if you're a tiny boutique hi-fi house you'll loose your cred if you don't look backward.



I really don't care much about apps but the fact that RHA'a Trueconnect apparently cannot upgrade firmware without factory service irks me.

It is a great pair of TWSs otherwise though. I just took mine for a spin in town + daily commute, under a light winter drizzle, and I experienced zero connection issues. My KZ Bluetooth cable would shutter occasionally during these.


----------



## webvan

albau said:


> Talk about $300 M&D MW07! Personally I almost never used transparency mode on 65t. But the fact that both RHA and MW07 not only miss this feature but also don't have an app and firmware updates is very strange. It's like if you're a tiny boutique hi-fi house you'll loose your cred if you don't look backward.



When you're out and about transparency is a bit of a must as it's really annoying to have to pull out your well adjusted IEM !


----------



## SomeGuyDude

albau said:


> Talk about $300 M&D MW07! Personally I almost never used transparency mode on 65t. But the fact that both RHA and MW07 not only miss this feature but also don't have an app and firmware updates is very strange. It's like if you're a tiny boutique hi-fi house you'll loose your cred if you don't look backward.



I somewhat understand the lack of app/firmware. VModa does the same, as do a few others, where there's no "processing" to the sound and it's literally just a BT receiver stuck onto the device. Products like Sony/Bose/Jabra where there's more going on under the hood require firmware updates and app control. I don't look down on 'em too much for that. 

To my way of thinking, that's less money going into bells and whistles, more money going into a good product. Just a shame with the MW07 it didn't go into battery life.


----------



## firewatersun

https://www.theverge.com/2018/11/30...ireless-review-specs-features-price-earphones

Verge review of the Sennheiser MTW, they also previously reviewed the MW07 ( different reviewer though)

As someone with the Senns, I think the criticisms are very valid, but so are the praises!


----------



## james444

webvan said:


> When you're out and about transparency is a bit of a must as it's really annoying to have to pull out your well adjusted IEM !



To those who don't have transparency mode on their TWs, just try to flex your jaw muscles. In many cases that breaks the seal so you can hear a person talking to you. 

(Your counterpart may wonder why you're grimacing though 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 )


----------



## willryan042

firewatersun said:


> https://www.theverge.com/2018/11/30...ireless-review-specs-features-price-earphones
> 
> Verge review of the Sennheiser MTW, they also previously reviewed the MW07 ( different reviewer though)
> 
> As someone with the Senns, I think the criticisms are very valid, but so are the praises!



I usually like The Verge but that was a pretty dumb review.

While I personally don't like some of the Senn's gestures, him saying "I didn't read the included instructions or look at the companion app so I'm going to complain about the gestures" was ridiculous.

Also a con is "having to keep the case with you at all times." What? Don't you need the case for any wireless buds? And if you're going for a run/workout for a couple hours, you can most definitely leave the case at home.

And I haven't experienced any connection issues (and I'm in a major city like the reviewer) so not sure where that's coming from either.

I rate his review a 3/10.


----------



## MyrenJobrah

The bass on the senns is phenomenal. I'm really trying to figure out how to increase the max volume on them so that I can get rid of my vegas/Q5.. tired nearly everything (rebooting phone, turning volume all the way down then up, reconnecting the IEMs, disabling volume limitations on iphone, EQ, etc..).


----------



## firewatersun (Nov 30, 2018)

willryan042 said:


> I usually like The Verge but that was a pretty dumb review.
> 
> While I personally don't like some of the Senn's gestures, him saying "I didn't read the included instructions or look at the companion app so I'm going to complain about the gestures" was ridiculous.
> 
> ...



I get what you're saying, but the control system is very unintuitive. I've given the Senns to plenty of people to test (ew, I know) and invariably they accidentally pause/play music, turn on transparency etc.

Even with my previous Beoplay e8s, the touch area was much smaller so it was easier not to accidentally mess things up when removing or putting them in. I'd still prefer physical buttons though.

Also, the case thing is a small but real annoyance. You cannot afaik turn off the Senns, you have to wait for them to pause. I sometimes went out without the e8 case for a day if I knew I wasn't going to be listening to alot of music because I could turn them off and rely on the inbuilt 4 hours- definitely can't do that with the Senns


----------



## willryan042

firewatersun said:


> I get what you're saying, but the control system is very unintuitive. I've given the Senns to plenty of people to test (ew, I know) and invariably they accidentally pause/play music, turn on transparency etc.
> 
> Even with my previous Beoplay e8s, the touch area was much smaller so it was easier not to accidentally mess things up when removing or putting them in. I'd still prefer physical buttons though.
> 
> Also, the case thing is a small but real annoyance. You cannot afaik turn off the Senns, you have to wait for them to pause. I sometimes went out without the e8 case for a day if I knew I wasn't going to be listening to alot of music because I could turn them off and rely on the inbuilt 4 hours- definitely can't do that with the Senns



Yeah I get that, but I wouldn't describe any headphones' gestures as "intuitive." They all do it differently, they all require a slight learning curve after reading the manual.

If you're going to take the buds out and stick them in your pocket, why not have the case?! It easily fits in your pocket.

(sorry if I sound like I'm drinking the kool aid too much)


----------



## alee

The E8s pretty much have similar controls. But it's pointless to argue - either you like the controls and can adapt to them, or you can't get with the program and you learn to hate them. Every manufacturer has their own idea of what's the "right" way. I can tell you that if the Verge reviewer hated the TWM controls, they're really going to hate the RHA TrueConnects. Those are even fussier.

In the end, I think true wireless buds need to support customization - if I prefer play/pause on the right, I should be able to do that. If I want play/pause to be 15 clicks, I should be able to make my own decisions like this as a matter of personal choice. Right now, everyone more or less locks you into their way.


----------



## Rickyearl

Neimans just sent me shipment confirmation with a delivery date of tomorrow.  Weird.  I will be out of town too.


----------



## webreaper

Customisation would be awesome, if only so I can use the single tap for something other than bloody assistants.


----------



## jant71

If you like them, TFZ has made a TW...




Need more info but they are armature driven, calls are broadcast in both sides, 7 hour battery life and 100 hours in the case. BT5.0 and 20M range. Pairs to two phone simultaneously, auto on and connect, IPX7, and says two buttons on each to make functions easier.


----------



## clerkpalmer

jant71 said:


> If you like them, TFZ has made a TW...
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Cool find. Want.


----------



## Tranman409

Rickyearl said:


> Neimans just sent me shipment confirmation with a delivery date of tomorrow.  Weird.  I will be out of town too.


I got charged on my CC last week from them and then again yesterday. It still shows "backordered" on the page.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

firewatersun said:


> I get what you're saying, but the control system is very unintuitive. I've given the Senns to plenty of people to test (ew, I know) and invariably they accidentally pause/play music, turn on transparency etc.
> 
> Even with my previous Beoplay e8s, the touch area was much smaller so it was easier not to accidentally mess things up when removing or putting them in. I'd still prefer physical buttons though.
> 
> Also, the case thing is a small but real annoyance. You cannot afaik turn off the Senns, you have to wait for them to pause. I sometimes went out without the e8 case for a day if I knew I wasn't going to be listening to alot of music because I could turn them off and rely on the inbuilt 4 hours- definitely can't do that with the Senns



I don't own 'em so I'm not aware, but do the Senns have no built-in timeout feature? A lot of TWE's don't turn off on their own but will go into standby/sleep if they aren't playing anything after X minutes.


----------



## chinmie (Nov 30, 2018)

jant71 said:


> If you like them, TFZ has made a TW...
> 
> 
> 
> ...



i think it's a rebrand of the Mifo o5 pro. they even have the same tagline "make it fully optimal" on the box
the review of the mifo is good though. i almost bought it if only i think i haven't have enough TW already. also this one lacks ambient sound

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Mif...&terminal_id=2db9e4ce8cf944689c13cfd9927783a5


----------



## chinmie

this two days I'm using the Sabbat X12 pro has been pleasant. the 7 hours battery is great, tested two times and it is roughly consistent, about 9 hours on the second try but it's because i take short breaks more often)

the open design sound is also perfect for home use and sport. i can eat with this no problem because jaw movements won't break the seal (well there isn't any) and running with this don't produce that thumping sound in your head. i would still use my other TWs for noisy places though.

for the price, design, battery life, and overall functionality, I'd suggest this one hands down compared to the airpods


----------



## webvan

They look interesting, I'm guessing you like their SQ based on the other TWS in your stable ?


----------



## chinmie

webvan said:


> They look interesting, I'm guessing you like their SQ based on the other TWS in your stable ?



yes, i like it, i think it's a good and pleasant sounding open-back type earphones


----------



## firewatersun (Dec 1, 2018)

willryan042 said:


> Yeah I get that, but I wouldn't describe any headphones' gestures as "intuitive." They all do it differently, they all require a slight learning curve after reading the manual.
> 
> If you're going to take the buds out and stick them in your pocket, why not have the case?! It easily fits in your pocket.
> 
> (sorry if I sound like I'm drinking the kool aid too much)



Different use cases - I feel universal design should support both without inconveniencing anyone I guess.

E.g. Going for a run - that case is a pain to fit somewhere if you're using sports clothes. Wearing a suit, the buds can go in a small pocket, but the case ruins the lines. Very much first world problems, but a 300 true wireless set of earbuds is a first world solution and shouldn't cause these issues.



SomeGuyDude said:


> I don't own 'em so I'm not aware, but do the Senns have no built-in timeout feature? A lot of TWE's don't turn off on their own but will go into standby/sleep if they aren't playing anything after X minutes.



They do, it's 60 mins or something crazy though, but to be fair I think they drain much less power on standby than when actually playing music


----------



## saketme

Is anyone else experiencing connectivity dropouts due to low range with Senn MTWs? Mine start stuttering when if I walk 10 feet to another room in my house.


----------



## saketme

BigAund said:


> Anyone having charging issues with the Senns? I used mine this morning for about 1.5hrs, placed them in the case, and when I came back to listen, they were dead. The case is showing as fully charged, green light, but the earphones are dead. Anyone had this? Looks like they might have to go back to Senn.
> 
> Looks like the right earbud is broken. Left one has power, nothign on the right.



I haven't experienced this yet.



Burakk said:


> Is there anybody who can give an idea call quality of rha true connect and Senn. Mtw? By the way, I couldn’t find any shop which has stock for senn. in The Netherlands.



Call quality of Senn has been excellent. I have a habit of talking to my partner during night (blame our long distance relationship) and falling asleep. These earbuds are able to catch my voice even when they're covered by a pillow or a blanket. That said, I'm not finding these buds very comfortable to sleep with because of their size. I'm considering trading them for Earin M-2 because of their size and going back to wired earphones for phone calls.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

Gettin' pretty close to switching my TWE usage to "while on the go" only and snagging some on-ears for the gym, which should change what I need and what I'm gonna get.


----------



## clerkpalmer

SomeGuyDude said:


> Gettin' pretty close to switching my TWE usage to "while on the go" only and snagging some on-ears for the gym, which should change what I need and what I'm gonna get.



If you can believe it, the ua sport on ear gym headphones have superb sound. I bought them and loved them but they got too hot for me. I would recommend without hesitation. I bought the regular version not the “rock” version. Really nice sq.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

clerkpalmer said:


> If you can believe it, the ua sport on ear gym headphones have superb sound. I bought them and loved them but they got too hot for me. I would recommend without hesitation. I bought the regular version not the “rock” version. Really nice sq.



Lol that's exactly what I'm looking at actually .The Rock version is discounted even.


----------



## clerkpalmer

SomeGuyDude said:


> Lol that's exactly what I'm looking at actually .The Rock version is discounted even.



The sq is surprisingly balanced. Still a fun sound signature for the gym but the bass is done in a classy way. Plenty of bass but it doesn’t overwhelm or get too sloppy. I wanted to keep them but I get super hot doing cardio and they made it worse.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

clerkpalmer said:


> The sq is surprisingly balanced. Still a fun sound signature for the gym but the bass is done in a classy way. Plenty of bass but it doesn’t overwhelm or get too sloppy. I wanted to keep them but I get super hot doing cardio and they made it worse.



Bass is very much not a concern for me. My main set is the Vmoda Crossfade 2, and one reason I like the Bose and the Sony TWE is their extra low end. I'm primarily extreme metal with a smattering of hip hop and rock so the beefier bass helps me out. That'll be extra true in the gym. Might go snag a set today. I do have a Best Buy coupon...


----------



## clerkpalmer

SomeGuyDude said:


> Bass is very much not a concern for me. My main set is the Vmoda Crossfade 2, and one reason I like the Bose and the Sony TWE is their extra low end. I'm primarily extreme metal with a smattering of hip hop and rock so the beefier bass helps me out. That'll be extra true in the gym. Might go snag a set today. I do have a Best Buy coupon...


There is a Jlab pair that gets good reviews for 99. I’ve been tempted a few times because they look even more lightweight but if lifting is your thing I don’t think you’ll be disappointed in the UA. I think they’ll do more than fine with the bass. Where did you get the BB coupon?


----------



## SomeGuyDude

clerkpalmer said:


> There is a Jlab pair that gets good reviews for 99. I’ve been tempted a few times because they look even more lightweight but if lifting is your thing I don’t think you’ll be disappointed in the UA. I think they’ll do more than fine with the bass. Where did you get the BB coupon?



Yeah I'm a lifter primarily. And it's more like a voucher because I buy a dumb amount of stuff at BB. In the past few months I picked up a laptop and a Pixel 3XL, plus other odds and ends, so I've accrued a lot of points. 

I've seen ads for the JLab, the Flex I think? Looks neat but for the gym I'd prefer on-ear to over-the-ear just for heat purposes.


----------



## clerkpalmer

SomeGuyDude said:


> Yeah I'm a lifter primarily. And it's more like a voucher because I buy a dumb amount of stuff at BB. In the past few months I picked up a laptop and a Pixel 3XL, plus other odds and ends, so I've accrued a lot of points.
> 
> I've seen ads for the JLab, the Flex I think? Looks neat but for the gym I'd prefer on-ear to over-the-ear just for heat purposes.



Glad I’m not the only one here with an addiction...


----------



## SomeGuyDude

clerkpalmer said:


> Glad I’m not the only one here with an addiction...



It's part of why you'll see me harping on when Best Buy gets stuff in. I've got their Elite Plus membership at this point, so that means a 45 day return window plus points and discounts.


----------



## james444

SomeGuyDude said:


> Gettin' pretty close to switching my TWE usage to "while on the go" only and snagging some on-ears for the gym, which should change what I need and what I'm gonna get.



I noticed you have wired IEMs with MMCX connectors listed in your inventory. Did you consider getting the TRN BT20 earhooks for these?


----------



## SomeGuyDude

james444 said:


> I noticed you have wired IEMs with MMCX connectors listed in your inventory. Did you consider getting the TRN BT20 earhooks for these?



I don't trust cheapo chi-fi anything when it comes to bluetooth. A company like KZ might be able to pick up some decent OEM drivers and cobble together a solid wired headphones, but when there's actual electronics in there I'm not rolling the dice. I'll trust companies with a genuine track record for tech.


----------



## webvan (Dec 1, 2018)

Currently dealing with the hideous noise floor of the TRN BT3 (same problem on the BT10 apparently) I would indeed encourage caution when it comes to the BT20 ! On the other hand the KZ BT adapter (v1) has no audible noise floor so who knows?


----------



## SomeGuyDude

It's not just that, when it comes to chi-fi I just don't think they'll be able to have a decent dac/amp in them and if I'm gonna hook decent headphones into that only for them to get kneecapped by crummy electronics it just defeats the point. I could see using those if you're already chi-fi'd up but not otherwise.


----------



## webvan

chinmie said:


> yes, i like it, i think it's a good and pleasant sounding open-back type earphones


Good to "hear", I guess the SQ is good because it's an original/independent project compared to the dozens of clones of AirPods and other assortment of TWEs.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

BTW @clerkpalmer you were right about the UA's. Now I'm pretty perfectly set. VModa at home, UA at the gym, Bose while I'm out working and whatnot. 

Fun fact: the UA are eerily reminiscent of the custom shields I put on my VModa...







(okay no more off-topic, just wanted to say)


----------



## clerkpalmer

Nice. Cool setup. Good choices.


----------



## chrisbriton

Are we likely to see any more true wireless releases from master & dynamics any time soon?


----------



## SomeGuyDude

I heavily doubt it. None of the major companies have more than one TWE going at a given time outside of a regular and sport model but M&D isn't exactly a company that seems eager to court the "sport" crowd. Plus, it came out like... not that long ago. Settle down.


----------



## dounuts97

If the senn iE80's have a mmcx connector, you could try adapting the shure BT-2 5.0 adapter for your use case


----------



## webreaper

dounuts97 said:


> If the senn iE80's have a mmcx connector, you could try adapting the shure BT-2 5.0 adapter for your use case


They don't. Only real wireless option for the IE80s is the PlusSound BT.


----------



## webvan

chinmie said:


> this two days I'm using the Sabbat X12 pro has been pleasant. the 7 hours battery is great, tested two times and it is roughly consistent, about 9 hours on the second try but it's because i take short breaks more often)
> 
> the open design sound is also perfect for home use and sport. i can eat with this no problem because jaw movements won't break the seal (well there isn't any) and running with this don't produce that thumping sound in your head. i would still use my other TWs for noisy places though.
> 
> for the price, design, battery life, and overall functionality, I'd suggest this one hands down compared to the airpods


One last question before I place an order with AE, how's the microphone ? Can you have a normal conversation without people complaining they can't hear you ? Thanks !


----------



## dweaver (Dec 2, 2018)

Crazy, I walked in to London Drugs and they had a pair of Fiio F5 marked at $149CAD and when I looked up their website it wasn't listed so I had the salesman look up the price and they were clearing out for $69CAD. So I grabbed it. Damn thing came with a pelican case, some funky hybrid tips, an MMCX cable that can be used with android or apple, plus a 2.5mm trrs cable.

Sound is pretty damned impressive to. Its a titanium driver. I know this isn't new but it's still darned impressive stuff.

I have a pair of Sennheiser Momentum True Wireless on order and I am actually starting to think I will just cancel that order. As much as I want to hear them I have found some excellent products over the past couple days that sure scratch the audio itch.

Love that I now have some more great MMCX cable options in my stable along with a new IEM to boot.

Gonna see how these sound with me ES100 in balanced mode.

Btw sorry I posted this in the wrong thread . So just disregard...


----------



## rawrster

I have the Jabra 65T Active and unfortunately I will be returning it. The connection isn't good enough as the music keeps cutting in and out. This is with my Samsung Galaxy S8+ phone and my Sony ZX300A. My Bose soundsport wireless has a solid bluetooth connection so not sure why so many bluetooth earphones just comes up short with the connection. I may need to wait for more reviews on the Sennheiser Momentum true wireless (or test out the Bose soundsport true wireless) or just wait until next year and hopefully something better is released.


----------



## dweaver

I confirmed with Sennheiser that I can return my pair if I dont like them. So will give a good set of impressions even if I decide to send them back. Bottom line for is they will have to sound awesome and have zero connection issues before I will keep them due to their price.


----------



## chinmie

webvan said:


> One last question before I place an order with AE, how's the microphone ? Can you have a normal conversation without people complaining they can't hear you ? Thanks !



yes, it's quite clear when i tested calling my kid (i told him to use the sabbat and i listened on the other end), a bit warmed up at the highs, not as crisp on the treble as the phone's mic or the Jabra, but still audible. but i reckon on a noisy environment it would be a bit harder to hear


----------



## webvan

Thanks, that seems reasonable enough, not the typical "clone" performance with a useless "CVC 6.0" mic!


----------



## webreaper (Dec 3, 2018)

Some additional feedback on the Sennheisers after my first commute:

1. Pairing: I took them out of the case this morning and they didn't reconnect. I couldn't pair them - in the end I had to 'forget' them from my phone and repair. Quite annoying. Thankfully it worked on my 3rd attempt, but irritating all the same.

2. I used the app for the first time for real, and found that despite the fact that I was listening to music quite happily, it couldn't connect to the earphones. What? I guess the headphones weren't responding or something over a separate BT channel. Really weird and annoying.

3. Battery life: After around 2 hours, the left was at 66% and the right at 38%. That's on-target to hit approx 4 hours (based on the master's max battery life), but it's a bit unnerving to see such a huge amount of difference. Anything more than 3 hours is plenty of me though, so whatever. Also, popping them into the case for around 15-20 mins increased the charge from 38% to 66%, so they charge pretty quickly. 

4. Transparent mode works well, but I'd really like to configure the double-tap on the right earpiece to be a single-tap instead (since I don't use voice assistant).

5. Sound: All of the above niggles are completely negligible because of the fantastic SQ. Watched 'Venom' on the train, and it sounded sooooo good. 

Overall, very pleased. However, I hope these niggles get ironed out in an app/firmware update in future.


----------



## plisandro (Dec 3, 2018)

Final update on RHA's Trueconnect, after rocking these out all week.

I'm really surprised by the connection stability: i recall only _one_ very brief connection dropout ever since i got them. There're areas of my daily commute that would make my previous KZ Bluetooth stutter reliably but the RHAs remain completely unfazed. SQ is still great - specially now that my ears have adapted to the new tonal signature. These are balanced, very natural sounding IEMs with a lot of detail.

I honestly don't think you can do much better in the $100-$200 range. The 65t looks very interesting too, but if you don't care about all its bell and whistles and value sound reproduction above else i'd seriously recommend checking these out.


----------



## Rickyearl

Rickyearl said:


> Neimans just sent me shipment confirmation with a delivery date of tomorrow.  Weird.  I will be out of town too.





Tranman409 said:


> I got charged on my CC last week from them and then again yesterday. It still shows "backordered" on the page.



Well, I got back late last night and now the tracking says arrival by tomorrow.  Fun stuff.


----------



## clerkpalmer

I'm going to go off topic a bit but largely because many use TW for on the go audio and gym use.  I grabbed a pair of TRN V80s and the Earstudio ES100 on sale on Amazon to compare that rig to my TW.  Maybe not apples to apples but the audio quality of this little device and using cheapie Chi-fi IEMs is very impressive.  I'm still waiting on my TRNBT20 cable which will turn the V80s into TW and I will give my impressions here.  I could definitely see myself using the ES100 with wired TRN v80s in the gym and on the go.  The SQ is shockingly good.  This ES100 is a cool little device.


----------



## 05stisilver

clerkpalmer said:


> I'm going to go off topic a bit but largely because many use TW for on the go audio and gym use.  I grabbed a pair of TRN V80s and the Earstudio ES100 on sale on Amazon to compare that rig to my TW.  Maybe not apples to apples but the audio quality of this little device and using cheapie Chi-fi IEMs is very impressive.  I'm still waiting on my TRNBT20 cable which will turn the V80s into TW and I will give my impressions here.  I could definitely see myself using the ES100 with wired TRN v80s in the gym and on the go.  The SQ is shockingly good.  This ES100 is a cool little device.



I'm doing the same thing. I ended up returning the Senn's and ordered the trn bt20 and I got the revonext qt2 and also ordered the trn v80's to try out.


----------



## paddyberger

I hope this isn’t too off topic but this thread looks like the best place to get an answer.

I’m looking for the smallest Bluetooth earphones/ or buds for listening to podcasts and radio in bed. I’d prefer a joining wire otherwise they’ll end up missing on the floor, behind the headboard etc. and I can’t be having that.

I’m looking for low profile and sound quality is desirable but not over comfort. Thanks in advance.


----------



## jant71

Paddyberger, you'd do well with the jay m-SIX but they are still listed as pre-order. Should of been out by now. There is a review on the site and a couple of other places. https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/jays-m-six-wireless.23321/reviews

You got your wire, very flush design, very good SQ from the reviews, hooks may or may not float your boat but aren't thick and keeps them from pulling out when sleeping.


----------



## assassin10000

paddyberger said:


> I’m looking for low profile and sound quality is desirable but not over comfort. Thanks in advance.



You could also do a combination setup of your choice of low profile small IEM with an additional bluetooth cable OR buy set bundled with a bluetooth cable like the Westone WX or Shure SE215.


----------



## paddyberger

assassin10000 said:


> You could also do a combination setup of your choice of low profile small IEM with an additional bluetooth cable OR buy set bundled with a bluetooth cable like the Westone WX or Shure SE215.



Thanks, I did order the MEE AUDIO cable but even on the lowest volume setting it was too loud for bed.


----------



## assassin10000

paddyberger said:


> Thanks, I did order the MEE AUDIO cable but even on the lowest volume setting it was too loud for bed.



Hmmm. I have a TRN BT10 cable that I can separately adjust volume of the BT cable and then volume on my phone. So it pretty much can go almost inaudible.


----------



## webvan

Careful with the TRN BT adapters, the BT3 and BT10 have a hideous noise floor (at least with the TRN V80), seems unlikely the BT20 will be any better...


----------



## hifi80sman

Had to return the MW07 due to battery life issues.  I was getting a constant 2.5 hours at 35% - 40% volume on my iPhone.  Started getting the low battery sound at about 2 hours.  Pretty crappy.  Other than that, they sounded absolutely fantastic and fit nicely.

I had to pick up the Sennheiser HD1 Free to satisfy me whilst I search for some TWEs.  I'm looking at the NuForce BE Free5.  Anyone have feedback on those?


----------



## mrdalesen

Been looking back on this thread lately and decided to pre-order the momentums, owning a pair of crossfade 2 wireless and previously owned a pair of sennheiser momentums 2.0 (Which i didn't like at all.)  
I want to use these for running as the v-modas slips off my head. Really hope they're worth the 355usd they cost here.


----------



## clerkpalmer

mrdalesen said:


> Been looking back on this thread lately and decided to pre-order the momentums, owning a pair of crossfade 2 wireless and previously owned a pair of sennheiser momentums 2.0 (Which i didn't like at all.)
> I want to use these for running as the v-modas slips off my head. Really hope they're worth the 355usd they cost here.



I think running with the MTW will be dicey.  No fit wings or stabilizers.


----------



## clerkpalmer

hifi80sman said:


> Had to return the MW07 due to battery life issues.  I was getting a constant 2.5 hours at 35% - 40% volume on my iPhone.  Started getting the low battery sound at about 2 hours.  Pretty crappy.  Other than that, they sounded absolutely fantastic and fit nicely.
> 
> I had to pick up the Sennheiser HD1 Free to satisfy me whilst I search for some TWEs.  I'm looking at the NuForce BE Free5.  Anyone have feedback on those?



NuForce have had mediocre feedback at best.  I haven't heard them personally but lots of talk about mediocre SQ and connection issues.  I'd probably pass on those.  I hear you on the MW07.  Packaged mine up today.  I still think they sound better than the Senns.  I was only getting 2 hours out of my battery.


----------



## mrdalesen

clerkpalmer said:


> I think running with the MTW will be dicey.  No fit wings or stabilizers.


well then that was a waste of money, lol. Are there any aftermarket wingtips or such available?


----------



## clerkpalmer

mrdalesen said:


> well then that was a waste of money, lol. Are there any aftermarket wingtips or such available?



No - hey, you never know, you may luck out.  No add ons that I am aware of.  If running is your primary use, you might check out the Bose or Sony SP700N which would definitely stay put during a run.  Or, just give the Senns a shot and return if they don't suit your purpose.


----------



## mrdalesen

clerkpalmer said:


> No - hey, you never know, you may luck out.  No add ons that I am aware of.  If running is your primary use, you might check out the Bose or Sony SP700N which would definitely stay put during a run.  Or, just give the Senns a shot and return if they don't suit your purpose.


I have high hopes though, I just hope for an okay fit, comfy to wear for a couple of hours and I expect quite the sound after all the reviews I've read.


----------



## willryan042

Anyone try the Jlab Epic Air Elite? I was using the original Epic Air's (released Jan 2018) before picking up the Sennheisers. I thought they fit perfectly (if you like ear hooks), sounded decent, and battery life was stellar. 

However I had MAJOR connection problems, constantly dropping out with my phone, especially at the gym. This new "elite" version looks like it could address some of the problems with the first release.

https://www.jlabaudio.com/products/epic-air-elite-true-wireless-sport-earbuds


----------



## clerkpalmer

willryan042 said:


> Anyone try the Jlab Epic Air Elite? I was using the original Epic Air's (released Jan 2018) before picking up the Sennheisers. I thought they fit perfectly (if you like ear hooks), sounded decent, and battery life was stellar.
> 
> However I had MAJOR connection problems, constantly dropping out with my phone, especially at the gym. This new "elite" version looks like it could address some of the problems with the first release.
> 
> https://www.jlabaudio.com/products/epic-air-elite-true-wireless-sport-earbuds



Yes and they are a big improvement over the originals.  SQ is better but a little harsh.  Fit is the same which is to say very good.  No connection issues.  If you like the form factor, they are a good choice.  I think for that price, the Sony, Bose and Jabra are better however.


----------



## hifi80sman

clerkpalmer said:


> No - hey, you never know, you may luck out.  No add ons that I am aware of.  If running is your primary use, you might check out the Bose or Sony SP700N which would definitely stay put during a run.  Or, just give the Senns a shot and return if they don't suit your purpose.


I concur with the Bose SoundSport wireless as great running TWEs.  They stay on well and are perfect for letting in some ambient noise when jogging.


----------



## Ocelitgol

clerkpalmer said:


> I'm going to go off topic a bit but largely because many use TW for on the go audio and gym use.  I grabbed a pair of TRN V80s and the Earstudio ES100 on sale on Amazon to compare that rig to my TW.  Maybe not apples to apples but the audio quality of this little device and using cheapie Chi-fi IEMs is very impressive.  I'm still waiting on my TRNBT20 cable which will turn the V80s into TW and I will give my impressions here.  I could definitely see myself using the ES100 with wired TRN v80s in the gym and on the go.  The SQ is shockingly good.  This ES100 is a cool little device.



Can it drive a higher end iem? 

Looking forward to your impression if you can test it with others


----------



## hifi80sman

clerkpalmer said:


> NuForce have had mediocre feedback at best.  I haven't heard them personally but lots of talk about mediocre SQ and connection issues.  I'd probably pass on those.  I hear you on the MW07.  Packaged mine up today.  I still think they sound better than the Senns.  I was only getting 2 hours out of my battery.


Yeah, very disappointing.  I also found it interesting that some of the literature provided with the earbuds warned about listening too loudly.  I wouldn't be surprised if they ran the earbuds at like 15% volume for 3.5 hours.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

hifi80sman said:


> Had to return the MW07 due to battery life issues.  I was getting a constant 2.5 hours at 35% - 40% volume on my iPhone.  Started getting the low battery sound at about 2 hours.  Pretty crappy.  Other than that, they sounded absolutely fantastic and fit nicely.
> 
> I had to pick up the Sennheiser HD1 Free to satisfy me whilst I search for some TWEs.  I'm looking at the NuForce BE Free5.  Anyone have feedback on those?



A quick journey into Ye Old Google doesn't show any good reviews of the Free5.


----------



## dweaver

stormers said:


> Can it drive a higher end iem?
> 
> Looking forward to your impression if you can test it with others


The ES100 is a VERY capable BT Amp/DAC that can drive any earphone you own and most headphones as well. I am very tempted to just cancel my Sennheiser True Wireless and just use what I have including the ES100. The ES100 actually gives high enough sound quality (I am able to use LDAC) that I struggle to hear a difference in quality versus just rllistening to music from the headphone jack in my S9 phone. It can also be used as a straight up DAC from your phone and your computer. Very versatile device...


----------



## james444

dweaver said:


> The ES100 is a VERY capable BT Amp/DAC that can drive any earphone you own and most headphones as well. I am very tempted to just cancel my Sennheiser True Wireless and just use what I have including the ES100. The ES100 actually gives high enough sound quality (I am able to use LDAC) that I struggle to hear a difference in quality versus just rllistening to music from the headphone jack in my S9 phone. It can also be used as a straight up DAC from your phone and your computer. Very versatile device...



Just my 2c: if you already have a higher end IEM hooked up to a receiver like the ES100 or Shanling M0, and if you don't need true wireless, you're probably better off with your current rig.

Currently, my best IEMs are the JVC FD01. Based solely on SQ, on a scale from 1 to 10, I'd rate the Havit G1 a 6, the Earin M-2 and Senn TW a 7, and the FD01 with Shanling M0 a 9.


----------



## webreaper

Lots of people talking about cancelling the Senns and getting something else. 

Be careful. You really should hear them first.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

clerkpalmer said:


> I think running with the MTW will be dicey.  No fit wings or stabilizers.



Jabra doesn't have them either, nor do Jaybird RUN. Lack of wings or whatever doesn't matter if they're properly sized for the conch of the ear.


----------



## hifi80sman

SomeGuyDude said:


> A quick journey into Ye Old Google doesn't show any good reviews of the Free5.


Indeed.  However, I usually find many of the "professional" reviewers have a completely different opinion than I do once I actually get a hold of something and test it out.  I usually find the best feedback here, but it doesn't look like anyone has actually tested them out yet.


----------



## albau

Interesting tidbit about MW07. Tried to post review on Amazon but they said that this item is closed for reviews for a number of undisclosed reasons, but also "possibly because of the unusual commenting activity". Never saw anything like this. Just curious why it could be? Maybe M&D doesn't want to hear about less than spec battery life?


----------



## webvan

Don't recall ever seeing something like this either. What I have seen is a product being "suspended" (i.e. not available for purchase) due to ongoing investigations following customer feedback (or some text to that effect).


----------



## chinmie

stormers said:


> Can it drive a higher end iem?
> 
> Looking forward to your impression if you can test it with others



the ES100 can drive my ATH R70X headphone easily, so it is a very capable amp dac. i don't think any iems would pose a problem for the ES100. other DAC aside the ES100 to consider is the Fiio BTR3. it has a "snappier" attack to the sound, while the ES100 has a more pleasant and natural sound. both are equally great product. 



james444 said:


> Just my 2c: if you already have a higher end IEM hooked up to a receiver like the ES100 or Shanling M0, and if you don't need true wireless, you're probably better off with your current rig.
> 
> Currently, my best IEMs are the JVC FD01. Based solely on SQ, on a scale from 1 to 10, I'd rate the Havit G1 a 6, the Earin M-2 and Senn TW a 7, and the FD01 with Shanling M0 a 9.



although the JVC and M0 combo are easily doubles the price of the M2 or the TW 
interesting that you put the M2 and the TW on the same rating on sound, as i really like the sound of the M2. how about the whole package experience (the feature, battery life, convenience, etc) between them both? which one do like more?

I might be parroting about this a bit too much lately, but i really recommend the Sabbat X12pro. it's like the KSC75/portapro in a really small size, with great 7 hours battery life, and small charging case size.

I'm curious how this compares to the Bose soundsport, as they have the similar open sound


----------



## 05stisilver

chinmie said:


> the ES100 can drive my ATH R70X headphone easily, so it is a very capable amp dac. i don't think any iems would pose a problem for the ES100. other DAC aside the ES100 to consider is the Fiio BTR3. it has a "snappier" attack to the sound, while the ES100 has a more pleasant and natural sound. both are equally great product.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Since I see you have the Jabra 65t how does the sabat compare to that? Also can I run/workout with the Sabat without them falling out? Their design looks like they would just fall out of my ears. I'm also interested in the M2 as well.


----------



## hifi80sman

albau said:


> Interesting tidbit about MW07. Tried to post review on Amazon but they said that this item is closed for reviews for a number of undisclosed reasons, but also "possibly because of the unusual commenting activity". Never saw anything like this. Just curious why it could be? Maybe M&D doesn't want to hear about less than spec battery life?


I've seen this before with a pair of Chi-Fi headphones.  In that case, I suspect it was a lot of positive "Verified Purchase" reviews from affiliated parties.  There may be a lot of repeated phrases or something that suggests there's a C-O-N-spiracy.


----------



## clerkpalmer

dweaver said:


> The ES100 is a VERY capable BT Amp/DAC that can drive any earphone you own and most headphones as well. I am very tempted to just cancel my Sennheiser True Wireless and just use what I have including the ES100. The ES100 actually gives high enough sound quality (I am able to use LDAC) that I struggle to hear a difference in quality versus just rllistening to music from the headphone jack in my S9 phone. It can also be used as a straight up DAC from your phone and your computer. Very versatile device...





SomeGuyDude said:


> Jabra doesn't have them either, nor do Jaybird RUN. Lack of wings or whatever doesn't matter if they're properly sized for the conch of the ear.



my jay bird run had stabilizer wings. I wouldn’t trust the Jabra to stay in my ears either running. I agree however that for some people they will probably stay seated but my guess is it’s the exception not the rule.


----------



## mrdalesen

used to have a pair of sony eb90ex which I wore comfortably, and that was a 16mm driver. So i hope I dont need wings on these :/


----------



## clerkpalmer (Dec 3, 2018)

@chinmie, I was hoping one might think your headphones sound better out of the es100 rather than wired via your note 9. While introducing Bluetooth degrades sound a bit, adding an amp and dac to the chain should improve it right? When I swapped my iPhone wired for the ES100,  using my new trn v80 the sq improved to my ears.  The es100 is making me want to try some high end earbuds again ... and so the sickness continues.


----------



## chinmie

05stisilver said:


> Since I see you have the Jabra 65t how does the sabat compare to that? Also can I run/workout with the Sabat without them falling out? Their design looks like they would just fall out of my ears. I'm also interested in the M2 as well.



Sound wise, I'd say they are comparable in SQ, but each have their own strengths as they have a very different fitting model (closed IEM vs open earbud style). the jabra is more versatile because you can set the ambient sound level so it can be like open earbud too. still a different experience though.

depending on ear shape. if airpods fit snug in your ears, you would love the Sabbat. it would sit on my ears without falling even if i do handstand with it (i also tested it for running with no problem). it also comes with two sets of earfins the help getting a more secure fit.

the jabra would work itself out of my ears periodically, especially when sweating. it also would fall off when i do handstand. it might be because it is slightly more protruding and have a bit of weight on the outside. 

the earin won't come of out of your ears unless you pull it out. it's also has the best sound for my taste. 

so to sum up their strengths that i like with them:
Jabra: can connect to two device at once. my best TWs for riding. 

Sabbat: best fit for long session, crazy battery life, my preferred TWs for indoor use and sleeping. 

Earin: Favorite sound, really low profile and secure fit (can use universal eartips), my best TWs for noisy environments

bonus: Sony WF1000X: i rarely use this one anymore since i got the sabbat, but to me this is a very good sounding IEM. if only it has a bit of more battery and less quirky connection with ANC or ambient mode on...

i have the Pamu Scroll incoming and see how it goes.


----------



## chrisbriton

SomeGuyDude said:


> I heavily doubt it. None of the major companies have more than one TWE going at a given time outside of a regular and sport model but M&D isn't exactly a company that seems eager to court the "sport" crowd. Plus, it came out like... not that long ago. Settle down.



I don’t consider myself to be overly “sporty”  but appreciate a decent sound in a convenient package when excercising.  Is the real benefit of true wireless not for the active person? excercise, commute? They won’t match the performance of whatever over ears your rocking so besides novelty value, why would you choose to sit at home with these performance limiting “go anywhere” buds stuck in your ears?


----------



## 05stisilver

chinmie said:


> Sound wise, I'd say they are comparable in SQ, but each have their own strengths as they have a very different fitting model (closed IEM vs open earbud style). the jabra is more versatile because you can set the ambient sound level so it can be like open earbud too. still a different experience though.
> 
> depending on ear shape. if airpods fit snug in your ears, you would love the Sabbat. it would sit on my ears without falling even if i do handstand with it (i also tested it for running with no problem). it also comes with two sets of earfins the help getting a more secure fit.
> 
> ...



Thank you for the reply.

I primarily use these for my training sessions which are lengthy (Spartan race/Trail/Mountain running) so my primary focus would be battery life so that would take out the Sony. What type of battery life do you get out of the Earin? The Pamu Scroll does look interesting just not sure if the real world battery life would be enough for me. I have the same issues with the Jabra 65t falling out of my ears. I almost lost one when it fell out and almost off the side of a mountain! So I primarily use the older Elite Sport. The sound quality is just not that great nor is the battery life. I thought about getting the new version with the 4.5 hour battery life.


----------



## chinmie

clerkpalmer said:


> @chinmie, I was hoping one might think your headphones sound better out of the es100 rather than wired via your note 9. While introducing Bluetooth degrades sound a bit, adding an amp and dac to the chain should improve it right? When I swapped my iPhone wired for the ES100,  using my new trn v80 the sq improved to my ears.  The es100 is making me want to try some high end earbuds again ... and so the sickness continues.



the ES100 definitely have a better sound than the direct output of my Note 8 and tablets..and yes, I'd say it's because the better Dac Amp. i rarely use my ES100 anymore because i have the better sounding BlueDAC, but i still think the ES100 (and the Fiio BTR3) are really hard to beat for their price


----------



## chinmie

05stisilver said:


> Thank you for the reply.
> 
> I primarily use these for my training sessions which are lengthy (Spartan race/Trail/Mountain running) so my primary focus would be battery life so that would take out the Sony. What type of battery life do you get out of the Earin? The Pamu Scroll does look interesting just not sure if the real world battery life would be enough for me. I have the same issues with the Jabra 65t falling out of my ears. I almost lost one when it fell out and almost off the side of a mountain! So I primarily use the older Elite Sport. The sound quality is just not that great nor is the battery life. I thought about getting the new version with the 4.5 hour battery life.



i got about 4 hours with the Earin. you might also want to consider the Mifo o5 or their rebranded TFZ X1 on aliexpress, they also promised 7 hours battery life, but i haven't tested them myself, so take it with a grain of salt.


----------



## chinmie

chrisbriton said:


> I don’t consider myself to be overly “sporty”  but appreciate a decent sound in a convenient package when excercising.  Is the real benefit of true wireless not for the active person? excercise, commute? They won’t match the performance of whatever over ears your rocking so besides novelty value, why would you choose to sit at home with these performance limiting “go anywhere” buds stuck in your ears?



i do. mainly because it is convenient of having no cables tugging my head. i only use wired while I'm sitting down at my work desk or on the bed before sleeping, and also on a plane. 

at home for YouTube and light music while doing chores and moving about, and going to the mall with my family, and of course for working out, i choose true wireless nowadays


----------



## Ocelitgol

dweaver said:


> The ES100 is a VERY capable BT Amp/DAC that can drive any earphone you own and most headphones as well. I am very tempted to just cancel my Sennheiser True Wireless and just use what I have including the ES100. The ES100 actually gives high enough sound quality (I am able to use LDAC) that I struggle to hear a difference in quality versus just rllistening to music from the headphone jack in my S9 phone. It can also be used as a straight up DAC from your phone and your computer. Very versatile device...






chinmie said:


> the ES100 can drive my ATH R70X headphone easily, so it is a very capable amp dac. i don't think any iems would pose a problem for the ES100. other DAC aside the ES100 to consider is the Fiio BTR3. it has a "snappier" attack to the sound, while the ES100 has a more pleasant and natural sound. both are equally great product.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



sorry, i was referring to the TRN BT20. While my experience with ES100 is excellent, I do yearn for TW with higher-end iem


----------



## alee

webreaper said:


> 2. I used the app for the first time for real, and found that despite the fact that I was listening to music quite happily, it couldn't connect to the earphones. What? I guess the headphones weren't responding or something over a separate BT channel. Really weird and annoying.


Yeah - the initial pairing isn't fully obvious, but when you're fully paired, you will have 2 BT devices (at least on the iPhone):
LE-MOMENTUM TW
MOMENTUM TW

The LE appears to be the one used for the app, and the other one for audio. I think the right order to pair them is to your phone via your regular BT pairing, and then fire up the app, after which it will connect the LE-MOMENTUM device. Haven't had any issues once both were paired.


----------



## starlan

Got the Sennheiser MTW. Really like them. Previously bought the Jabra Elite 65T Active but returned them as they were not comfortable to me and hurt my ears after a while. These are definitely much more comfortable (but still not perfect) and they sound notably better from what I recall of the Jabra's sound. Has anyone tried the Comply TrueGrip foam tips? How do they fit if you have medium size ears (the stock medium silicone tips work fine for me).

If the charging case battery is depleted and I put the Sennheiser MTW's in the case they don't seem to turn off (my bluetooth settings still show them as connected and so does the app). Only way seems to be to disconnect them manually in the bluetooth settings of the phone and then have them to go into idle/sleep mode after a while unless I am missing something? Seems pretty silly...


----------



## webreaper

alee said:


> Yeah - the initial pairing isn't fully obvious, but when you're fully paired, you will have 2 BT devices (at least on the iPhone):
> LE-MOMENTUM TW
> MOMENTUM TW
> 
> The LE appears to be the one used for the app, and the other one for audio. I think the right order to pair them is to your phone via your regular BT pairing, and then fire up the app, after which it will connect the LE-MOMENTUM device. Haven't had any issues once both were paired.


On android they only show up as a single device.


----------



## mrdalesen

chrisbriton said:


> I don’t consider myself to be overly “sporty”  but appreciate a decent sound in a convenient package when excercising.  Is the real benefit of true wireless not for the active person? excercise, commute? They won’t match the performance of whatever over ears your rocking so besides novelty value, why would you choose to sit at home with these performance limiting “go anywhere” buds stuck in your ears?


I agree with this, reason I don't use wired is that constant cable thumping while running or mountain hiking.


----------



## james444

chinmie said:


> ... although the JVC and M0 combo are easily doubles the price of the M2 or the TW
> interesting that you put the M2 and the TW on the same rating on sound, as i really like the sound of the M2. how about the whole package experience (the feature, battery life, convenience, etc) between them both? which one do like more?



Agreed. It only makes sense if you already own a higher end IEM and don't need the convenience of true wireless.

I don't own the MTW, just ran my SQ tests on a unit Sennheiser provided. So I can't comment on the whole package experience. But I clearly prefer the M2's smaller size. Soundwise, the MTW are more v-shaped and exciting than the M2, but I'd still rate them overall on the same level.


----------



## BobJS

Maybe I lead a very cushy life, but I NEVER need more than about 1.5 hours at a time of battery life for my commute, walks, or workouts.  I'm super-duper happy with my MW07 and Jabra Elite Active 65t.   After use, stick 'em back in their case to recharge for next use ..... recharge case 1x / week. Never had any problem with either one of them.

I would never even consider any of the newer models mentioned here (many not even available yet), until a large number of glowing reviews appear.  Just one man's story.


----------



## nc8000 (Dec 4, 2018)

BobJS said:


> Maybe I lead a very cushy life, but I NEVER need more than about 1.5 hours at a time of battery life for my commute, walks, or workouts.  I'm super-duper happy with my MW07 and Jabra Elite Active 65t.   After use, stick 'em back in their case to recharge for next use ..... recharge case 1x / week. Never had any problem with either one of them.
> 
> I would never even consider any of the newer models mentioned here (many not even available yet), until a large number of glowing reviews appear.  Just one man's story.



My commute is around 4 hours one way (fortunately not every day and not there and back the same day) so that is my minimum required battery time


----------



## SomeGuyDude

chrisbriton said:


> I don’t consider myself to be overly “sporty”  but appreciate a decent sound in a convenient package when excercising.  Is the real benefit of true wireless not for the active person? excercise, commute? They won’t match the performance of whatever over ears your rocking so besides novelty value, why would you choose to sit at home with these performance limiting “go anywhere” buds stuck in your ears?



At home? No. But when I'm not at home, TWE are usually preferable because they're lightweight, I can wear a hoodie with them, etc. Like I've said, right now I have three sets. Over-ears for at home, on-ears for the gym, TWE for out and about.

I'll say this, as well. SQ on Bluetooth has gotten good enough that I can't deal with being tethered by cables anymore. I'll take the fidelity hit for the mobility benefit. It's just not a big enough difference for me to be concerned anymore.


----------



## Rickyearl

alee said:


> Yeah - the initial pairing isn't fully obvious, but when you're fully paired, you will have 2 BT devices (at least on the iPhone):
> LE-MOMENTUM TW
> MOMENTUM TW
> 
> The LE appears to be the one used for the app, and the other one for audio. I think the right order to pair them is to your phone via your regular BT pairing, and then fire up the app, after which it will connect the LE-MOMENTUM device. Haven't had any issues once both were paired.



Is this described in the manual?  Because it's kind of ridiculous and non-intuitive.


----------



## alee

Rickyearl said:


> Is this described in the manual?  Because it's kind of ridiculous and non-intuitive.


No. I had to mess around a bit before it worked. I initially tried to do the app pairing first and it didn’t work right so I deleted, started over and that’s when I saw that I ended up with 2 devices.


----------



## clerkpalmer

I paired mine to my iPhone first right out of the box.  Then downloaded the app.  No issues.


----------



## howdy

Would the people who have had both Senns and MW07 agree that the MW07 are the better of the 2 as for sound and comfort? I don't care at all about the 2 to 2.5 hour battery life as I'm to dam busy to listen to music that long and if I did have that time it would be with my CIEMs.


----------



## albau (Dec 4, 2018)

howdy said:


> Would the people who have had both Senns and MW07 agree that the MW07 are the better of the 2 as for sound and comfort? I don't care at all about the 2 to 2.5 hour battery life as I'm to dam busy to listen to music that long and if I did have that time it would be with my CIEMs.


Sorry, can't comment on Senns, but soundwise MW07 are the best thing that happened to my at the gym despite their miserable battery life around 3 hours. Very energetic bassy signature with lots of space and detail. And that compared not only to 65t but also to wired Westone W20, both of which I have on hand. Concerning comfort and isolation it's very subjective, as with any IEM. Everybody have different ears, so you can't assume that if somebody happy with one model you'll be happy with it as well. For example, with 65t I found immediately great and secure fit with stock eartips, while was about to return MW07 until I found SpinFit CP100Z eartips that work great for me. Browse this thread and you'll find that quite a few people had a totally opposite experience with the same models.


----------



## Rickyearl

firewatersun said:


> Sure! So you get a pair of Comply fakes/generic foam earplugs (you'll need to punch a hole in these), snip off the top half-inch to an inch off em. Then you grab the silicon eartips and flip the "mushroom" part up (like when an umbrella gets inverted due to wind), and work the foam bits around the cylinder bit of the silicone tips. Then, roll the mushroom back down over them and install on the earbuds as usual. In practice it's kinda like the now discontinued Sony isolation tips that were foam-filled silicone eartips.



I just did this with my Soundcore Liberty Lites as a test (and because the conference call was really dull).  This really is kind of amazing.  Comply without all the boom and high rolloff.  Thank you!


----------



## webvan

Just went for a run with the Havit G1 and was pleasantly surprised by the good fit without the pressure on the ears of the Jabra Sport Elite and more importantly, little to none (not distracting anyway) of the usual "thud" I get when running with IEMs that trap the air in the canal where it gets compressed when you strike the ground. That probably means that the seal got "broken" but the sound remained pleasant and bassy.


----------



## clerkpalmer

TRNBT20 arrived today.  Sadly, it suffers from the noise floor issue described above.  The background hiss is absurdly loud.  It goes away if the volume increases enough but if you listen at lower volumes, forget it.  SQ is fine - works as advertised.  Definitely a step below wired and below the ES100.  Probably a novelty product right now.  Not sure I would ever grab that set up over my MTW given the hiss.  Cost me $30 so whatever.  You get what you pay for.  Hopefully, a better manufacturer seizes on the idea and makes a premium product out of the design.  Then I think you'd be on to something.


----------



## james444

webvan said:


> Just went for a run with the Havit G1 and was pleasantly surprised by the good fit without the pressure on the ears of the Jabra Sport Elite and more importantly, little to none (not distracting anyway) of the usual "thud" I get when running with IEMs that trap the air in the canal where it gets compressed when you strike the ground. That probably means that the seal got "broken" but the sound remained pleasant and bassy.



That's a plus on the Havit G1. +10dB bass emphasis means you still have sufficient bass with a slightly leaky seal.



clerkpalmer said:


> TRNBT20 arrived today.  Sadly, it suffers from the noise floor issue described above.  The background hiss is absurdly loud.  It goes away if the volume increases enough but if you listen at lower volumes, forget it.  SQ is fine - works as advertised.  Definitely a step below wired and below the ES100.  Probably a novelty product right now.  Not sure I would ever grab that set up over my MTW given the hiss.  Cost me $30 so whatever.  You get what you pay for.  Hopefully, a better manufacturer seizes on the idea and makes a premium product out of the design.  Then I think you'd be on to something.



What's your source? I don't get that kind of hiss on the BT20 from my LG V30 via BT 5.0 / ACC.


----------



## clerkpalmer

james444 said:


> That's a plus on the Havit G1. +10dB bass emphasis means you still have sufficient bass with a slightly leaky seal.
> 
> 
> 
> What's your source? I don't get that kind of hiss on the BT20 from my LG V30 via BT 5.0 / ACC.


iPhone xs max


----------



## james444

clerkpalmer said:


> iPhone xs max



And which IEMs are you driving? Are these BAs or DDs?


----------



## clerkpalmer (Dec 4, 2018)

james444 said:


> And which IEMs are you driving? Are these BAs or DDs?


Trnv80s. But zero hiss running the Trnv80s wired to my es100 connected to iPhone via bt. So that tells me the hiss is in the bt20. Any troubleshooting is welcome. The hiss is very loud.


----------



## clerkpalmer

Btw, these things get REALLY loud.  Wow.


----------



## james444

clerkpalmer said:


> Trnv80s. But zero hiss running the Trnv80s wired to my es100 connected to iPhone via bt. So that tells me the hiss is in the bt20. Any troubleshooting is welcome. The hiss is very loud.



The BT20 may have high output impedance (OI), which can affect the frequency response of BAs. I haven't found OI in the BT20's specs, so that's just a wild guess though. Do you have any DD IEMs to test the BT20 with? DDs are usually not affected by high OI.

Just so you know I'm not making things up, here are impulse response measurements with my JVC FD01 (which is a very analytical / revealing DD). On the left side you see slightly more distortion during attack / decay with the BT20, on the right side you see the noise floor after the impulse has decayed. The signal degradation is quite small and to my ears pretty much negligible in a mobile environment.

wired:





wireless (BT20):


----------



## clerkpalmer

Interesting info.  V80 has 2 DD and 2 BA drivers.


----------



## james444

clerkpalmer said:


> Interesting info.  V80 has 2 DD and 2 BA drivers.



Just found this impedance graph for the V80. It has lower impedance in the treble than bass and mids, which actually means that higher OI would produce less hiss, not more. This pretty much rules out high output impedance as potential troublemaker, imo.

Other than that, my JVC's sensitivity is rated 103 dB/mW and the V80's is 108 dB/mW. So the V80 is a bit more sensitive to input signal (including hiss), but I somehow doubt that this small difference can explain the loud hiss on your unit vs. the near silence on mine.

Hmmm...


----------



## webvan

clerkpalmer said:


> TRNBT20 arrived today.  Sadly, it suffers from the noise floor issue described above.  The background hiss is absurdly loud.  It goes away if the volume increases enough but if you listen at lower volumes, forget it.  SQ is fine - works as advertised.  Definitely a step below wired and below the ES100.  Probably a novelty product right now.  Not sure I would ever grab that set up over my MTW given the hiss.  Cost me $30 so whatever.  You get what you pay for.  Hopefully, a better manufacturer seizes on the idea and makes a premium product out of the design.  Then I think you'd be on to something.


Bad news but as per my previous posts I'm not surprised as my BT3 are terrible with the V80 and there are similar reports for the BT10. It's not the V80s fault either since the KZ BT Adapter produces no noticeable hiss. Ironically the KZ ZS3 also have little hiss with the TRN BT3 but sound nowhere near as good as the V80 of course.

If you can still stand them a bit let us know how the battery life is and how the mic works (very bad on the BT3) and the overall fit/finish, thanks !


----------



## clerkpalmer

So any recommendations on an alternative iem with a .75mm plug? I'm willing to be a guinea pig for you guys. Plus I'm sure they will be outstanding with the es100 as a fallback.


----------



## hifi80sman

nc8000 said:


> I need 4 hours as my commute is at least 3 hours 50 minutes as this the E8 and G1 both can deliver with a bit to spare


How do you like the E8?  I had a bad experience with my first pair.  The bass just seemed to flatten out at about 150 Hz and the driver couldn't push beyond.  Also, the call quality was poor with artifacts all over the place.


----------



## nc8000

hifi80sman said:


> How do you like the E8?  I had a bad experience with my first pair.  The bass just seemed to flatten out at about 150 Hz and the driver couldn't push beyond.  Also, the call quality was poor with artifacts all over the place.



I've lived happily enough with the E8 for over a year and basically only had 2 gripes. Random very short drop outs of the left unit and mediocre mic. The drop outs are a niggle but not bad enough to really bother me and I do very few calls so the mic was also not a big problem.


----------



## hifi80sman

nc8000 said:


> I've lived happily enough with the E8 for over a year and basically only had 2 gripes. Random very short drop outs of the left unit and mediocre mic. The drop outs are a niggle but not bad enough to really bother me and I do very few calls so the mic was also not a big problem.


Do you use the App to EQ?  If so, where do you place the dot (I hate that type of EQ interface)?


----------



## HFoletto

Hey!

I've been following this thread for the last 50 or so pages, and I'd really like to thank you all for this great info!

For about 1 year I've been searching for a good pair of wireless headphones, however it has been so hard that until now I still haven't made a choice.

My situation is the following: My smartphone doesn't have a headphone jack, and my laptop, it has, however it's in such awkward position that it gets in the way of the keyboard and I don't like it at all.

I'd like to have wireless earphones that provides at very least 4 hours (5 hours would be ideal) of continuous music playback, iem design (not something like airpods or pixel buds), USB-C charging port, stable connection with little delay/lag, being able to pair it to 2 devices and acceptable sound quality.  

I was almost certain that the Sennheiser Momentum True Wireless would be the one, however even though they are using BT 5.0, they aren't taking advantage of one of its features, which is the multi-pair thing.

I don't care much about the codecs, since I'm only using Apple Music, which is like 256kbps, I think even SBC is capable of delivering it. Correct me if I'm wrong.

At this point, I'm unsure which are my options, and if there's any that offers everything I'm looking for.

Right now the one which seems to be the closest is the Jabra 65T. The only thing I'm asking that it doesn't provide is the USB-C port, which although I'd like to avoid buying stuff with micro-usb, I still have to use it to charge my mouse anyway.

Is there another option available out there or coming soon?

Big thanks!


----------



## plisandro

I'm sounding like a broken record by now, but i'd highly recommend looking into RHA's Trueconnect.


----------



## HFoletto

plisandro said:


> I'm sounding like a broken record by now, but i'd highly recommend looking into RHA's Trueconnect.



Can those pair to multiple devices? I think I read a review on amazon saying it can only pair to one at a time.


----------



## albau

HFoletto said:


> Right now the one which seems to be the closest is the Jabra 65T. The only thing I'm asking that it doesn't provide is the USB-C port


But you just can buy on Amazon cheap and small USB-C to micro-USB adapter. Then 65t would really fit your bill.


----------



## HFoletto

albau said:


> But you just can buy on Amazon cheap and small USB-C to micro-USB adapter. Then 65t would really fit your bill.



That's actually a good idea! Maybe I could use something like that, then I can charge my laptop, phone and headphones all using the same charger/cable.


----------



## albau

HFoletto said:


> That's actually a good idea! Maybe I could use something like that, then I can charge my laptop, phone and headphones all using the same charger/cable.


Isn't the one you linked is way-way overpriced at $39? There's like the one for $3.


----------



## HFoletto

albau said:


> Isn't the one you linked is way-way overpriced at $39? There's like the one for $3.



I actually didn't even check the price, just shared to specific the type of adapter that would work nicely with my setup.
Thanks for the tip btw, since it's only for charging, the one you sent would probably be a perfect fit!


----------



## slitzx

HFoletto said:


> My situation is the following: My smartphone doesn't have a headphone jack, and my laptop, it has, however it's in such awkward position that it gets in the way of the keyboard and I don't like it at all.


You could try swinging the cable behind the tablet screen for now. Bluetooth on Windows isn't great but I suppose it's passable for casual listening, don't even bother with using it as a headset on Windows otherwise it'll go mono on you with terrible quality.


----------



## plisandro

HFoletto said:


> Can those pair to multiple devices? I think I read a review on amazon saying it can only pair to one at a time.



No  It will remember multiple paired devices but it will only connect one at a time.


----------



## nc8000

hifi80sman said:


> Do you use the App to EQ?  If so, where do you place the dot (I hate that type of EQ interface)?



Yes I use the app to select the level of ambient noise transperency (full mute of music) and in eq I have the dot about 1/3 straight up the center line with the smallest dot possible


----------



## srinivasvignesh

plisandro said:


> I'm sounding like a broken record by now, but i'd highly recommend looking into RHA's Trueconnect.



I do not know why the RHA is being dismissed easily and thoroughly for lack of OTA updates and APTX. For a large number of people, who listen to podcasts and the occasional calls, it seems pretty good. Not saying that those concerns are not valid, but saying that these concerns for quite a number of people are not really that big of a deal.I have bought one and waiting for it. 

It does seem to have generally positive reviews (25 hours, AAC, stem design to improve calls, type C, comfort all seem to work in favour of RHA.)


----------



## alchemical

Anyone know of any RHA Trueconnect stockists in Australia?


----------



## webvan

No transparency mode either for the RHA so you'll need to pull them out to interact.It's annoying but ok for a 50€ device like the Havit but for a 150€+ device I'm not sure, especially when you can get the 65t for less.


----------



## webvan

clerkpalmer said:


> So any recommendations on an alternative iem with a .75mm plug? I'm willing to be a guinea pig for you guys. Plus I'm sure they will be outstanding with the es100 as a fallback.


KZ ES4/Zsn/AS10 ?


----------



## webreaper

Okay, so I'm happy with the Senns, and getting sick of the bravado and name-calling in this thread, so unsubscribing. Have fun y'all.


----------



## Tulku1967

I've been listening to MW07 for a few week. After 30+ hours, the first part of the burning process ended.

My first (and most important) experience that the MW07 has too short nozzles, therefore, people with large internal ear canal do not hear the real sound signature, and the isolation is not perfect. To prove this, I made a custom tip that I got with two tips.


 

So the length of the nozzle will be good, the sound was completely different.

The first TW IEM for me with bass experience is near wired earphones.

The mid range is also very good. The „scratchiness” of the high  is the consequence of BT signal transmission, but it is within my listening range.


Since the lengthening of the nozzle was not tolerated by the thickness of the charging box, I had to make minor changes to it. 

 


For me,  the best sounded TW IEM is  MW07 ...
( I have also 65t, Bragi the Headphone, Erato Muse5 and Erato Apollo 7s)

Sorry for my english...


----------



## plisandro

srinivasvignesh said:


> I do not know why the RHA is being dismissed easily and thoroughly for lack of OTA updates and APTX.



Ditto. I got mine about 10 days ago and i'm thoroughly impressed  - SQ and build quality are great, and Bluetooth connectivity is just superb. I never had a Bluetooth audio receiver so rock-solid before; it can rightfully be compared to Airpods in this regard IMHO.


----------



## BigZ12 (Dec 5, 2018)

It's too soon... ?! :O
Got my Sennheiser Momentum True Wireless on Monday, and I have distortion and "crackling" with them. (At least one user in Reddit forum claims the same)

Nice example. Crackle in right speaker from about 40s. NO crackling with Sony WH-1000MX3, Jaybird X3 or Prostereo H2.

There's also a kind of metallic distortion with tight punchy bass, this on the left speaker.

(A good example showing the "cling" noise after the bass beats)
With Sony WH-1000MX3, Jaybird X3 and Prostereo H2 you don't hear this with AAC and/or AptX codec. Strangely enough all get it with SBC.
It's present with the Sennheisers regardless of source/codec  (but only on the left side)

I really hope it's firmware related, and can be fixed, but I think I'm returning them


----------



## clerkpalmer

BigZ12 said:


> It's too soon... ?! :O
> Got my Sennheiser Momentum True Wireless on Monday, and I have distortion and "crackling" with them. (At least one user in Reddit forum claims the same)
> 
> Nice example. Crackle in right speaker from about 40s. NO crackling with Sony WH-1000MX, Jaybird X3 or Prostereo H2.
> ...




Interesting. Thanks for posting. I had some similar impressions that I could not articulate as well as you did over the weekend. I didn't think a whole lot of it at the time but I may need to investigate further. I thought it was the source material.


----------



## BigZ12 (Dec 5, 2018)

clerkpalmer said:


> Interesting. Thanks for posting. I had some similar impressions that I could not articulate as well as you did over the weekend. I didn't think a whole lot of it at the time but I may need to investigate further. I thought it was the source material.



I've heard the crackling on the right side on many songs. (Running in the sea - Royksopp, Sound of silence - Disturbed etc etc) But the best example is the sound check vid.
The crackling with the Sennheiser MTW, is present on all sources I've tested (SBC, AAC and AptX (also Low latency))

The "metallic cling" sound/noise after bass beats is soooo strange.
I'm 100% sure it's introduced with SBC on any headset.
(Source tested: Apple TV 4 (which I thought was AAC), a common BT USB  SBC dongle and also tried my Jaybird X3 on the Avantree Leaf USB dongle (SBC, AptX, AptX LL))

With AAC/AptX (Source tested: iPhone X, Avantree Leaf, Macbook Pro) the noise/distortion "cling sound" is NOT present!
As I said, sadly the MTW's got this regardless of source/codec 

Edit: Or is the MTW just connecting with SBC (when it should support AAC/AptX (incl LL))?

Edit2: I checked with my Avantree Oasis Plus now, and the MTW's connected with AptX LL.
(Very bad connection actually, sound on one side lost signal and so on when testing some songs/videoes)
The crackling and "metallic" noise was present on AptX Low Latency as well


----------



## kellte2

BigZ12 said:


> I've heard the crackling on the right side on many songs. (Running in the sea - Royksopp, Sound of silence - Disturbed etc etc) But the best example is the sound check vid.
> The crackling with the Sennheiser MTW, is present on all sources I've tested (SBC, AAC and AptX (also Low latency))
> 
> The "metallic cling" sound/noise after bass beats is soooo strange.
> ...




Maybe you just received a defective set. They did just release, afterall.


----------



## Ocelitgol

james444 said:


> The BT20 may have high output impedance (OI), which can affect the frequency response of BAs. I haven't found OI in the BT20's specs, so that's just a wild guess though. Do you have any DD IEMs to test the BT20 with? DDs are usually not affected by high OI.
> 
> Just so you know I'm not making things up, here are impulse response measurements with my JVC FD01 (which is a very analytical / revealing DD). On the left side you see slightly more distortion during attack / decay with the BT20, on the right side you see the noise floor after the impulse has decayed. The signal degradation is quite small and to my ears pretty much negligible in a mobile environment.
> 
> ...


thanks for the explanation. 

My BT20 is on the way (hopefully this week or next) so I can test it with Xelento (tesla driver = DD?). I'd hate if it destroys my baby's sweet sound


----------



## BigZ12

kellte2 said:


> Maybe you just received a defective set. They did just release, afterall.


I hope so, but users on other forums have this crackle noise on the right channel too.
I'm returning this set, and will try one more when the next batch is arriving.


----------



## BigZ12

clerkpalmer said:


> Interesting. Thanks for posting. I had some similar impressions that I could not articulate as well as you did over the weekend. I didn't think a whole lot of it at the time but I may need to investigate further. I thought it was the source material.


So you have the MTW's too? Could you please test my findings, and come back with yours?


----------



## Chrisdu18e (Dec 5, 2018)

For those who want to use APTX with their TW and a mac. It uses SBC by default (to know wich codec is using, lauch music on your mac with your TW, press and hold option key and click the Bluetooth menu bar icon and navigate to the TW entry, you will see the type of codec).

If your TW could use APTX and you see SBC codec,
You have to open the app "terminal" and copy this :
sudo defaults write bluetoothaudiod "Enable AptX codec" -bool true

You'll have to mention your admin password to validate.

If you want AAC, just change AptX by AAC

For me, with this tip found in the Internet, the sound of my Senn' are really really better, switching SBC to APTX.


----------



## BigZ12

Chrisdu18e said:


> For those who want to use APTX with their TW and a mac. It uses SBC by default (to know wich codec is using, lauch music on your mac with your TW, press and hold option key and click on the bluetooth logo and select your TW, you will see the type of codec).
> If your TW could use APTX,
> You have to open the app "terminal" and copy this :
> sudo defaults write bluetoothaudiod "Enable AptX codec" -bool true
> ...


I've already tested this (also possible to get AAC/AptX with installing Bluetooth Explorer from the Xcode dev package). 
Agree that it works well with sound quality, but still got the crackle noise and "metallic cling" as mentioned before on my Senn' MTW.
But this "trick" really helped with my BeatsX when using them with my Macbook Pro 

Would like it if you read my recent posts, and test my findings. (both with SBC and AAC/AptX if you could)


----------



## james444

stormers said:


> thanks for the explanation.
> 
> My BT20 is on the way (hopefully this week or next) so I can test it with Xelento (tesla driver = DD?). I'd hate if it destroys my baby's sweet sound



That will be interesting, because the Xelentos are dynamic driver IEMs and not affected by output impedance.

On the other hand, the Xelentos' sensitivity is rated 110 dB/mW, which is quite a bit higher than my JVC's sensitivity at 103 dB/mW. So, fingers crossed for you that they won't hiss with the BT20. The noise floor on my JVCs is very low, and tbh, I wouldn't expect the Xelentos to pick up much more hiss, even at 7 db higher sensitivity.


----------



## hifi80sman

Switching gears here.  I just picked up the B&O E8 (again), but this set sounds vastly different that the original set I purchased.  Let me explain:

- 1st set sounded very tinny with very little bass depth.  EQ (via B&O app) did not improve the sound much.  2nd set sounds rich, full, and responds to EQ nicely.  Bass sounds good.
- 1st set was an older build and was part of the $199 Black Friday Promo.  2nd set was up-to-date out of the box and I picked it up on sale for $228.
- 1st set had poor mic pickup and call quality.  2nd set is probably 50% better.  It's definitely not the best for calls, but at least my voice is smooth without loud artifacts.  I can use it for casual calls.

Very weird.  Does anyone else have a similar experience?


----------



## Rickyearl

Got my MTWs last night.

This may be of no use to anyone but me, but here are some physical comparisons of the B&O E8 and the Senn MTW.  Sound comparison to come later. 

TL;DR version - Senns are slightly bigger and have a more pronounced angle to the tip, so they stick out more.  Senn case is a lot bigger and taller.


----------



## Rickyearl

Sorry those pics are so big.  I have no idea what I'm doing on that.


----------



## hifi80sman (Dec 5, 2018)

Rickyearl said:


> Got my MTWs last night.
> 
> This may be of no use to anyone but me, but here are some physical comparisons of the B&O E8 and the Senn MTW.  Sound comparison to come later.
> 
> TL;DR version - Senns are slightly bigger and have a more pronounced angle to the tip, so they stick out more.  Senn case is a lot bigger and taller.


Nice!  I'm definitely looking forward to your overall impressions on the MTW and comparisons between the 2 (e.g. sound, video delay, calls).  Currently have the E8 and enjoying them so far.


----------



## hifi80sman

Rickyearl said:


> Sorry those pics are so big.  I have no idea what I'm doing on that.


Insert as thumbnails instead.


----------



## Rickyearl

Other things besides sound -

Senn case charges waaaaaaay faster - USB-C I guess. Forgot to time this but at least 2/3 the time from fully drained.  Not sure on the IEMs themselves - will report back.

E8 case magnets are a lot stronger and snappier, but neither set would come out of the case no matter how reasonably hard I shook it.

The Senn case feels more substantial and heavier.  Despite the leather on the E8 being nicer, it feels higher-end to me.

The Senn case texture attracts all kinds of lint, hair, etc.  I like the elastic strap that holds the E8 case together, and wish Senn had done the same.  I don't think the E8 case hinge is "better," but the Senn hinge is definitely "looser." 

The E8 case is better for knowing what's going on charging-wise.  It's a lot easier to tell the E8s are charging from the LED at the front of the open case, and to tell the case is charging (and how charged) due to the 2 LEDs on the back (effectively tells you there are 2 full charges in the case).  Senn case has one charging light on the back.  You push a button to see charge status.  If the MTW are in the case, it tells you their status (solid green for full, amber flashing otherwise).  If they aren't, it tells you the case charge (same thing).  

The Senn stock silicone tips are much heavier duty and have a little plastic X to hold their shape.  The E8s' stock tips are sort of cheap and almost transparent.  Then again, the E8 came with complys and the Senns didn't.

In contrast, the LED on the actual MTW tells you a whole lot more than the similar LED on the Right E8.  For the E8, the light is white when they're on and L and R are close enough, flashing blue to pair, and IIRC briefly solid blue when paired.  That's about it.  There's an LED on both the L and R MTW, and the LED tells you all kinds of stuff:


----------



## BigZ12

Rickyearl said:


> Sennheiser


I hope you can read my recent post, and test my findings. (every info in  posts on page 180)


----------



## Rickyearl

BigZ12 said:


> I hope you can read my recent post, and test my findings. (every info in  posts on page 180)


 I plan to do so.  Been on calls all day.


----------



## Chrisdu18e (Dec 5, 2018)

BigZ12 said:


> I've already tested this (also possible to get AAC/AptX with installing Bluetooth Explorer from the Xcode dev package).
> Agree that it works well with sound quality, but still got the crackle noise and "metallic cling" as mentioned before on my Senn' MTW.
> But this "trick" really helped with my BeatsX when using them with my Macbook Pro
> 
> Would like it if you read my recent posts, and test my findings. (both with SBC and AAC/AptX if you could)



If I use the Audio test on Youtube, I've got crackles at 40-41' sec. But according to me, it's from the frequency of the sound, not the TW.
When I try with Jabra Elite Active 65T, at 40, 41', there is no sound at all
Do you try to use your TW with other sources (dap or phones of yours friends, family...) ? Ask them if they hear the crackle sounds (without the audio sound test on youtube).


----------



## Rickyearl

BigZ12 said:


> It's too soon... ?! :O
> Got my Sennheiser Momentum True Wireless on Monday, and I have distortion and "crackling" with them. (At least one user in Reddit forum claims the same)
> 
> Nice example. Crackle in right speaker from about 40s. NO crackling with Sony WH-1000MX3, Jaybird X3 or Prostereo H2.
> ...



FWIW, I heard the crackle sound on both the E8 and the MTW.  More pronounced on the E8, actually.  Like something was rattling loose in the R IEM.  On the MTW it was barely audible at full volume but it was there. 

Not hearing anything of note on the second sample.


----------



## BigZ12 (Dec 5, 2018)

Rickyearl said:


> FWIW, I heard the crackle sound on both the E8 and the MTW.  More pronounced on the E8, actually.  Like something was rattling loose in the R IEM.  On the MTW it was barely audible at full volume but it was there.
> 
> Not hearing anything of note on the second sample.


Hmm, I don't hear the crackle on multiple other headsets I have (as stated in my post)
So no like "metallic" / "cling" reverberation on every bass drum beat? Edit: On the second sample I mean.
Is it possible to hear the second sample with SBC? Do you have a dongle or a PC which only supports SBC?


----------



## BigZ12 (Dec 5, 2018)

Chrisdu18e said:


> If I use the Audio test on Youtube, I've got crackles at 40-41' sec. But according to me, it's from the frequency of the sound, not the TW.
> When I try with Jabra Elite Active 65T, at 40, 41', there is no sound at all
> Do you try to use your TW with other sources (dap or phones of yours friends, family...) ? Ask them if they hear the crackle sounds (without the audio sound test on youtube).


I've tried soooo many devices, codecs and headsets 
Sony WH-1000MX3, Jaybird X3, Soundmagic E11C with Avantree Clipper Pro, RBH Prostereo H2, BeatsX (yep, I own them all  )
SBC, AAC, AptX, AptX LL, AptX HD codecs
Apple TV 4k, Macbook Pro, Avantree Leaf USB, Avantree Oasis Plus Transmitter, CSR AptX USB dongle, iPhone X

My conclusion:
I hear the crackle (right side) only with the Senn' MTWs, regardless of device and codecs. (With audio test on Youtube, but with a lot of other songs (Running in the Sea - Røyksopp / Sound of Silence - Disturbed etc etc)
I hear the "metallic" distortion with all headsets when using the SBC codec
I only hear the "metallic" distortion with the Senn' MTWs with AAC and AptX (but only in left speaker)

I hope I have a faulty product....

Thanks for testing!


----------



## Rickyearl

BigZ12 said:


> Hmm, I don't hear the crackle on multiple other headsets I have (as stated in my post)
> So no like "metallic" / "cling" reverberation on every bass drum beat? Edit: On the second sample I mean.
> Is it possible to hear the second sample with SBC? Do you have a dongle or a PC which only supports SBC?



Sorry, just my iphone, ipad and Nintendo Switch (to test lag) here at work.


----------



## Ocelitgol

james444 said:


> That will be interesting, because the Xelentos are dynamic driver IEMs and not affected by output impedance.
> 
> On the other hand, the Xelentos' sensitivity is rated 110 dB/mW, which is quite a bit higher than my JVC's sensitivity at 103 dB/mW. So, fingers crossed for you that they won't hiss with the BT20. The noise floor on my JVCs is very low, and tbh, I wouldn't expect the Xelentos to pick up much more hiss, even at 7 db higher sensitivity.


Yup..fingers crossed. 

I'm thinking of making it a project: like modding some place to make it more like TW (battery case, magnetic charge, etc.). I already got all the parts I need and will update later if it works out well


----------



## Rickyearl

OK, far from a critical listening, but my first 2 hours' summary.  Both on the center on the "EQ" in their respective apps, and using the same tips for both.

One thing that matters quite a bit more than I would have thought - the Senns are harder to insert due to their slightly rounder shape.  There's nothing to grip.  This drove me nuts switching back and forth.

E8 is harsher - the ping pong ball noises on Yosi Horikawa's Bubbles actually snap to the point they hurt a little.  The E8 sound is more treble-forward - not less bassy, just that the treble is more dominant.  A good example is the background hiss in quiet moments that you get from an old analog recording, like Move It On Over by Hank Williams.  You can hear it on both but on the E8 it is more forward and sibilant.  

Senns are significantly louder.  Senns have a lot more directional soundstage, especially front to back, if that makes sense.  The Senns' sound is overall fuller but not less detailed.


----------



## firewatersun

Tulku1967 said:


> I've been listening to MW07 for a few week. After 30+ hours, the first part of the burning process ended.
> 
> My first (and most important) experience that the MW07 has too short nozzles, therefore, people with large internal ear canal do not hear the real sound signature, and the isolation is not perfect. To prove this, I made a custom tip that I got with two tips.
> 
> ...



That's a cool case mod! Would have been afraid to do it for fear of hitting a battery or connector.

I love everything I hear about the MW07s except for the terrible battery life reported by so many...If they ever have a MW07 v2 with much better battery life, I'd sell my Sennheiser MTWs for them


----------



## Rickyearl

Rickyearl said:


> OK, far from a critical listening, but my first 2 hours' summary.  Both on the center on the "EQ" in their respective apps, and using the same tips for both.
> 
> One thing that matters quite a bit more than I would have thought - the Senns are harder to insert due to their slightly rounder shape.  There's nothing to grip.  This drove me nuts switching back and forth.
> 
> ...



A good example of the difference in approach is in Ageispolis by Aphex Twin.  At about 2:00, there's a white noise that sounds a lot like rolling surf.  It stays there over the next minute and a half, really getting prevalent about 2:50.  On the E8, it is really noticeable and at the forefront the entire time.  On the Senns, you have to be listening for it in order to even notice it until 2:50.


----------



## albau (Dec 5, 2018)

firewatersun said:


> That's a cool case mod!


Totally agree, very cool!


firewatersun said:


> I love everything I hear about the MW07s except for the terrible battery life reported by so many...If they ever have a MW07 v2 with much better battery life, I'd sell my Sennheiser MTWs for them


Yeah, I love MW07 SQ and style so much that I'm willing to put up with atrocious battery life. That despite the fact that I have to carry also 65t as a backup. My MW07/2 wish list:

Battery - I know their excellent SQ comes from a relatively huge by IEM standards 10mm driver with a stiff beryllium diaphragm. All that needs a lot of energy. But c'mon, there should be truth in advertisement - 3.5 hours is unreachable for these! It borders on a fraud. They need to raise it to at least 4 hours, real ones, not the paper spec. BT5 may help.
Call quality - For the price mics should be way better
Case and eartips - Brushed metal is flashy and all that but it's also heavy, prohibitive of tall eartips and prone to scratches and fingertips. Thanks to short battery life I have to carry it everywhere and its weight is noticeable. And again at this price there should be magnetic guides. I would much prefer the case like E8, in materials, size/weight and depth to accommodate for taller 3rd party eartips. Speaking of which, for $300 D&D could've included more variety of better quality and some Complys as well.
App, transparency mode and FW updates - again for the sake of sound and price D&D probably wanted to leave more battery, more acoustic sculpturing space and less electronic interference. Still other high-ends like Senns and E8 somehow found a way to cope with this. MW07 sound is already wonderful without resident EQ (and one can EQ on the source), but transparency mode is really lacking.


----------



## bennagio

I have been using Sennheiser Momentum True Wireless for 2 weeks now. I feel uncomfortable after an hour of wearing. 

Has anybody tried Spiral Dot tips on them? Are they compatible with the earphones? Do they help in terms of comfort?


----------



## Vyntekx

Hi I'm looking to move to True Wireless Earbuds since phones are losing their headphone jacks. I bought the cheap Xiaomi airdots just to try but I didn't really like them because they didn't have track controls and it wasn't really snug in my ear. I've been reading the past few pages and picked up 

Sennheiser MTW
Havit G1W
Anker Soundcore Liberty Lite
RHA TrueConnect

I have a budget of about US150-200. But I'm mainly looking for a decent sound plus track controls. I can't live without switching forward and back. 
Does anyone have any recommendations?


----------



## nc8000

Vyntekx said:


> Hi I'm looking to move to True Wireless Earbuds since phones are losing their headphone jacks. I bought the cheap Xiaomi airdots just to try but I didn't really like them because they didn't have track controls and it wasn't really snug in my ear. I've been reading the past few pages and picked up
> 
> Sennheiser MTW
> Havit G1W
> ...



Of these 4 I’ve only tried the G1 and for the price (and even if they cost twice the price) I find them very good. The call quality is only average and only in the right ear and they don’t have ambient noice mode or volume control but other than that fine so you could try them and see if they work for you.


----------



## mrdalesen

clerkpalmer said:


> Does 5.0 offer any actual audio improvements?  I have read mixed reports.  AptxHD maybe requires 5.0?


well it does allow for larger amounts of data being transferred wirelessly (don't remember the exact numbers). So I would think there should be audio improvements, as they can send more data.


----------



## Tulku1967

firewatersun said:


> That's a cool case mod! Would have been afraid to do it for fear of hitting a battery or connector.
> 
> I love everything I hear about the MW07s except for the terrible battery life reported by so many...If they ever have a MW07 v2 with much better battery life, I'd sell my Sennheiser MTWs for them



Before I start a DIY mode make, I'll thoroughly check it the device.

There is a page where levels of internal photos are taken from each BT device.


Here is the inside of the MW07.

It is clearly visible that no dedicated dac-amp is included only a simply CSR chip.


For example Sennheiser MTW has a dialog 7217 da-ad chip.


If I have a little time, I'll show you 12 BA custom made TW CIEMs, what I did in this summer.


----------



## firewatersun

Tulku1967 said:


> Before I start a DIY mode make, I'll thoroughly check it the device.
> 
> There is a page where levels of internal photos are taken from each BT device.
> 
> ...



That's very interesting, thanks for sharing! I wonder can one replace that battery, or squeeze a bigger one in there


----------



## hifi80sman

Rickyearl said:


> Sorry, just my iphone, ipad and Nintendo Switch (to test lag) here at work.


So...getting any work done?  LOL!


----------



## Tulku1967

firewatersun said:


> That's very interesting, thanks for sharing! I wonder can one replace that battery, or squeeze a bigger one in there



Generally there is a Varta 1254 battery in TW IEMs.
It is 60 mAh capacity and 12 mm in diameter.
The Muse5 has Varta 1654, it has a capacity of 120 mAh, but it is 16 mm in diameter. This is already very large in BT units.
The average size of the Varta 1454 is 85 mAh capacitiy and 14 mm in diameter.

Here they are


----------



## Rickyearl

Vyntekx said:


> Hi I'm looking to move to True Wireless Earbuds since phones are losing their headphone jacks. I bought the cheap Xiaomi airdots just to try but I didn't really like them because they didn't have track controls and it wasn't really snug in my ear. I've been reading the past few pages and picked up
> 
> Sennheiser MTW
> Havit G1W
> ...



Don't get the Liberty Lites unless SQ isn't a big deal, and if you do get them, wait until one of the periodic sales and pick them up for $50.  They're fine for what they are at that price.  They're my gym headphones.  But they can compete SQ wise with anything in the $150-200 range.

Lots of good reviews on here for the Jabra 65t, which are usually available in your price range.  You might be able to find the B&O E8s on sale for the high end of your range.  I prefer the E8 of those two, but that's partially SQ and partially due to aesthetics - the Jabras look too much like bluetooth earpieces from 10 years ago to me.

Sennheisers are likely too new to fall below the $250-300 range.


----------



## Rickyearl

hifi80sman said:


> So...getting any work done?  LOL!


Shhhh....


----------



## Tulku1967

firewatersun said:


> That's very interesting, thanks for sharing! I wonder can one replace that battery, or squeeze a bigger one in there


As I promised…
In August, I was started in a big business, bought an Erato Apollo 7s TW IEM and built it into my custom Layla CIEM.
This JH Audio Layla is not an ordinary CIEM because the bass pot has been built into the body and has also received an APEX module. I also rebuilt little the crossower system.
Installation was not easy. The heaviest task was the charging connector because the Apollo electronics are not monitoring the charging current, which the charger does through a plus feedback connection (just like when charging cordless industrial machines). Here I put a 3-pin connector in the body where the middle constant, the two external can be interchanged because one is forward and the other is feedback.
The result was a BT IEM with a huge soundstage (width and depth). Mid are more dominate than  highs, BT's harshness here is back , becausein the high BA scrossower system has been changed a bit.
The bass is strong, fast thanks to 2x3800  Sonion BA-s
I've rebuilt the original charger and replaced the 300 mAh battery in a 1500 mAh battery.
Its disadvantage is 1.5 hours of operating time.  (12 BA must be a power)


----------



## Rickyearl

Tulku1967 said:


> As I promised…
> In August, I was started in a big business, bought an Erato Apollo 7s TW IEM and built it into my custom Layla CIEM.
> This JH Audio Layla is not an ordinary CIEM because the bass pot has been built into the body and has also received an APEX module. I also rebuilt little the crossower system.
> Installation was not easy. The heaviest task was the charging connector because the Apollo electronics are not monitoring the charging current, which the charger does through a plus feedback connection (just like when charging cordless industrial machines). Here I put a 3-pin connector in the body where the middle constant, the two external can be interchanged because one is forward and the other is feedback.
> ...



A lot of that is over my head but those look really cool.  Impressed.


----------



## Chmate

BigZ12 said:


> I've heard the crackling on the right side on many songs. (Running in the sea - Royksopp, Sound of silence - Disturbed etc etc) But the best example is the sound check vid.
> The crackling with the Sennheiser MTW, is present on all sources I've tested (SBC, AAC and AptX (also Low latency))
> 
> The "metallic cling" sound/noise after bass beats is soooo strange.
> ...



Chiming in to confirm this—I also noticed the crackling in particular notes. For me it was very noticable after 2:08 in the right earpiece for Phil Cook's "The Jensens"  and for punchy bass sample at 4:12 in . I thought it was a defect, so Sennheiser sent me a second pair—but it had the exact same crackles at the exact same time. My (somewhat more than expensive) Beyerdynamic Amiron Wireless does not crackle here, even with the same source.


----------



## BigZ12

Chmate said:


> Chiming in to confirm this—I also noticed the crackling in particular notes. For me it was very noticable after 2:08 in the right earpiece for Phil Cook's "The Jensens"  and for punchy bass sample at 4:12 in . I thought it was a defect, so Sennheiser sent me a second pair—but it had the exact same crackles at the exact same time. My (somewhat more than expensive) Beyerdynamic Amiron Wireless does not crackle here, even with the same source.



Thanks for answering.
Did you test the vids I posted for crackling (38-39 sec into the 1-minute sound test), and the "metallic reverbereration" on the bass drum (the Kari Bremnes track)? 

The noise/distortion I called "metallic reverbereration", do you hear it only in the left speaker?
The same noise presents itself on any headset I own when using SBC codec. (But then in both speakers) Especially with bass like that in the Bremnes song. This noise is as I said NOT present with AAC/AptX on any of my headsets. That's strange.
Unfortunately it's there with any codecs on the Senn' MTW, but only in left channel (maybe in both with SBC, don't remember since I gave up when I heard it with AAC/AptX)


----------



## Chmate (Dec 6, 2018)

BigZ12 said:


> Thanks for answering.
> Did you test the vids I posted for crackling (38-39 sec into the 1-minute sound test), and the "metallic reverbereration" on the bass drum (the Kari Bremnes track)?
> 
> The noise/distortion I called "metallic reverbereration", do you hear it only in the left speaker?
> ...



In both of your examples, I hear a distinct crackle in the right earpiece connected to an iPhone XW. Very clear from 40s onwards, and sporadically in the Bremnes song.

Earlier today I did some testing using my Mac (connected with AptX). When I saw the channels (left <-> right) in software, the channels switch as expected but the crackles remain in the right earpiece.

On which side do you hear crackles in the examples I posted?


----------



## firewatersun

Tulku1967 said:


> As I promised…
> In August, I was started in a big business, bought an Erato Apollo 7s TW IEM and built it into my custom Layla CIEM.
> This JH Audio Layla is not an ordinary CIEM because the bass pot has been built into the body and has also received an APEX module. I also rebuilt little the crossower system.
> Installation was not easy. The heaviest task was the charging connector because the Apollo electronics are not monitoring the charging current, which the charger does through a plus feedback connection (just like when charging cordless industrial machines). Here I put a 3-pin connector in the body where the middle constant, the two external can be interchanged because one is forward and the other is feedback.
> ...



That is pretty freaking cool, I admit I can only understand like 30% of that but the results and your description of SQ seem amazing. Have you thought about a small business messing with iems? Not sure how much interest there would be, but custom or modded true wireless iems could be a niche maybe?


Also that's a shame about the 120 Vartas being 50% bigger. You'd have to probably drill a hole in the MW07 acetate to have the battery sitting half outside, which might ruin the looks


----------



## Rickyearl

Chmate said:


> Chiming in to confirm this—I also noticed the crackling in particular notes. For me it was very noticable after 2:08 in the right earpiece for Phil Cook's "The Jensens"  and for punchy bass sample at 4:12 in . I thought it was a defect, so Sennheiser sent me a second pair—but it had the exact same crackles at the exact same time. My (somewhat more than expensive) Beyerdynamic Amiron Wireless does not crackle here, even with the same source.



Maybe it's my ears or my phone, but no crackles on either of those.


----------



## BigZ12

Chmate said:


> In both of your examples, I hear a distinct crackle in the right earpiece connected to an iPhone XW. Very from 40s onwards, and sporadically in the Bremnes song.
> 
> Earlier today I did some testing using my Mac (connected with AptX). When I saw the channels (left <-> right) in software, the channels switch as expected but the crackles remain in the right earpiece.
> 
> On which side do you hear crackles in the examples I posted?


I returned my set today, so I can't test your findings. They get new stock tomorrow and I did think I would try one more, but now I'm not so sure... 

So on the Bremnes song, you only heard the crackle on the right? No such metallic/cling noise "following" the bass beat in the start of the song? Left side? Before she begins to sing?
Have you got the chance to test the song with SBC, then AAC and/or AptX? (that's possible on your Mac)

For example; I hear it with Jaybird X3/Sony MX3/BeatsX from my USB dongle with only SBC support, but not when connecting all 3 to the iPhone X (AAC)


----------



## Chmate

Rickyearl said:


> Maybe it's my ears or my phone, but no crackles on either of those.


The second ("cut out") sample at about 4:12 into the second video is _all _crackles for me on the right side—there's really no way to miss it, nor do you have to listen closely or anything. If you don't immediately hear it, it's not there.


----------



## BigZ12

Chmate said:


> The second ("cut out") sample at about 4:12 into the second video is _all _crackles for me on the right side—there's really no way to miss it, nor do you have to listen closely or anything. If you don't immediately hear it, it's not there.


I tested your findings now with my Sony WH-1000MX3 and Prostereo H2 on my Avantree Leaf USB dongle (AptX). NO noise/crackle/distortion whatsoever...


----------



## Chmate

BigZ12 said:


> I returned my set today, so I can't test your findings. They get new stock tomorrow and I did think I would try one more, but now I'm not so sure...
> 
> So on the Bremnes song, you only heard the crackle on the right? No such metallic/cling noise "following" the bass beat in the start of the song? Left side? Before she begins to sing?
> Have you got the chance to test the song with SBC, then AAC and/or AptX? (that's possible on your Mac)
> ...



I left my Mac at work today, but would gladly test this for you tomorrow. Will report back after that!


----------



## Rickyearl

Vyntekx said:


> Hi I'm looking to move to True Wireless Earbuds since phones are losing their headphone jacks. I bought the cheap Xiaomi airdots just to try but I didn't really like them because they didn't have track controls and it wasn't really snug in my ear. I've been reading the past few pages and picked up
> 
> Sennheiser MTW
> Havit G1W
> ...




BTW, if you'd like to try them, the Liberty Lites are $45 on Amazon right now:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07CB7Y44...5b4bfd1d20a0f71b7092e3ff4c6&tag=kinjadeals-20


----------



## james444 (Dec 6, 2018)

Chmate said:


> Chiming in to confirm this—I also noticed the crackling in particular notes. For me it was very noticable after 2:08 in the right earpiece for Phil Cook's "The Jensens"  and for punchy bass sample at 4:12 in . I thought it was a defect, so Sennheiser sent me a second pair—but it had the exact same crackles at the exact same time. My (somewhat more than expensive) Beyerdynamic Amiron Wireless does not crackle here, even with the same source.




These videos contain clipped audio samples. I ran the Audacity clipping analyzer on them, red vertical lines mark the clipped samples. The Sennheisers are possibly just more revealing of clipping than some other TWs.


----------



## BigZ12

james444 said:


> These videos contain clipped audio samples. I ran the Audacity clipping analyzer on them, red vertical lines mark the clipped samples. The Sennheisers are possibly just more revealing of clipping than some other TWs.


Interesting, but I heard precisley the same crackles on the right speaker with many songs using Apple Music, where other headsets don't present the same noise.


----------



## Chmate

james444 said:


> These videos contain clipped audio samples. I ran the Audacity clipping analyzer on them, red vertical lines mark the clipped samples. The Sennheisers are possibly just more revealing of clipping than some other TWs.



Wow! Thanks for pointing this out, and for the effort in general! I suspected clipping, so tried various ways to lower the volume going into the Bluetooth encoding, but had not checked the source itself.

If this is what's going on, I should probably add a note to my previous posts stating that this isn't a defect—would not want to misinform potential buyers.


----------



## BigZ12

Chmate said:


> Wow! Thanks for pointing this out, and for the effort in general! I suspected clipping, so tried various ways to lower the volume going into the Bluetooth encoding, but had not checked the source itself.
> 
> If this is what's going on, I should probably add a note to my previous posts stating that this isn't a defect—would not want to misinform potential buyers.


Test the opening of Royksopp - Running in the sea, using your preferred music app... I use Apple Music, and it crackles in the intro. Also Sound of silence with Disturbed. 
(I also tested those tracks on Youtube, with the same crackles as on Apple Music.) 
Nothing with my other 4-5 headsets.


----------



## clerkpalmer

You guys are out of my league ... so what does this mean for the MTW?


----------



## Chmate (Dec 7, 2018)

clerkpalmer said:


> You guys are out of my league ... so what does this mean for the MTW?


Well, I was already considering keeping them—even with what I thought was a defect in the earpiece—because of how good they sound. That alone speaks volumes about the MTM, let alone if it turns out the 'defect' is just the a flaw in the recording.


----------



## Chmate

BigZ12 said:


> Test the opening of Royksopp - Running in the sea, using your preferred music app... I use Apple Music, and it crackles in the intro. Also Sound of silence with Disturbed.
> (I also tested those tracks on Youtube, with the same crackles as on Apple Music.)
> Nothing with my other 4-5 headsets.


Yeah, hear it too, e.g. at 0:02. Again, right earpiece. Less noticeable than some of the other examples though. Could there also be clipping in the track here?


----------



## clerkpalmer

Chmate said:


> Well, I was already considering keeping them—even with what I thought was a defect in the earpiece—because of how good they sound. That alone speaks very volumes about the MTM, let alone if it turns out the 'defect' is just the a flaw in the recording.


Have you heard the MW07?  Sound even better IMHO.


----------



## BigZ12

clerkpalmer said:


> You guys are out of my league ... so what does this mean for the MTW?


I think this "crackle" noise is because of the sensitivity in the MTW's? I discussed the case on Reddit too, and there were at least two guys there hearing the same noise.
This metallic noise I heard in the left channel is hopefully a faulty set... no other has confirmed it. Hoping that Chmate can test it, and understand what I mean when testing with SBC and AAC/AptX.
Otherwise I loved the sound quality, comfort, looks and everything else (almost... would have been nice with a better EQ in the app, and longer battery life) about the MTWs, that's why I decided to get a new one tomorrow.


----------



## albau

Tulku1967 said:


> Here is the inside of the MW07. It is clearly visible that no dedicated dac-amp is included only a simply CSR chip.


It's not clear which CSR chip it uses, but on most of these SoCs Qualcomm includes DSP and DAC modules. 



firewatersun said:


> Also that's a shame about the 120 Vartas being 50% bigger. You'd have to probably drill a hole in the MW07 acetate to have the battery sitting half outside, which might ruin the looks


This probably will ruin their SQ by opening holes in precisely shaped and calibrated by M&D acoustic chamber.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

hifi80sman said:


> Switching gears here.  I just picked up the B&O E8 (again), but this set sounds vastly different that the original set I purchased.  Let me explain:
> 
> - 1st set sounded very tinny with very little bass depth.  EQ (via B&O app) did not improve the sound much.  2nd set sounds rich, full, and responds to EQ nicely.  Bass sounds good.
> - 1st set was an older build and was part of the $199 Black Friday Promo.  2nd set was up-to-date out of the box and I picked it up on sale for $228.
> ...



Think they'd be worth picking up for $230 for someone who likes music with some bass weight to it?


----------



## kellte2

BigZ12 said:


> I think this "crackle" noise is because of the sensitivity in the MTW's? I discussed the case on Reddit too, and there were at least two guys there hearing the same noise.
> This metallic noise I heard in the left channel is hopefully a faulty set... no other has confirmed it. Hoping that Chmate can test it, and understand what I mean when testing with SBC and AAC/AptX.
> Otherwise I loved the sound quality, comfort, looks and everything else (almost... would have been nice with a better EQ in the app, and longer battery life) about the MTWs, that's why I decided to get a new one tomorrow.




I’ll play the clip with my ether c flows later to hear if it’s distortion on the recording.


----------



## firewatersun

albau said:


> It's not clear which CSR chip it uses, but on most of these SoCs Qualcomm includes DSP and DAC modules.
> 
> This probably will ruin their SQ by opening holes in precisely shaped and calibrated by M&D acoustic chamber.



Might do, but I don't know if the acetate is part of the acoustic chamber, I always assumed it was the rounded part just before the eartips. Thing is, a taller battery would fit in the same slot, but just extend past the acetate rather than rest against it, so not sure how much difference it would be.

That said I don't have the device blueprints, nor am I willing to undertake sub an expensive experiment  It would probably also ruin the sleek look


----------



## hifi80sman

james444 said:


> These videos contain clipped audio samples. I ran the Audacity clipping analyzer on them, red vertical lines mark the clipped samples. The Sennheisers are possibly just more revealing of clipping than some other TWs.


I heard the crackling sounds with my B&O E8 at the exact time frames indicated on the right side.  I suspect it's precisely as james444 pointed out and the MTW are just more revealing (as are the E8).


----------



## hifi80sman (Dec 6, 2018)

SomeGuyDude said:


> Think they'd be worth picking up for $230 for someone who likes music with some bass weight to it?


I do.  I'm using the largest ear tips.  I can increase the bass a bit if I use the ear tips from my Tunai DRUM.  Using the EQ shown below.  The bass is actually quite good.

First pair I received must have been a dud, although others reported tinny sound.  Not my first rodeo, so it wasn't a bad seal.  It's possible early production models used a different driver _*or *_there were just a handful of duds due to some dud-man at the assembly plant.

The battery life is also as advertised.  In fact, I'm ready to put them down before I get any low battery warning, which is about 3.5 hours at 40% volume.


----------



## James-uk

I have got some Sennheiser momentum TW coming tomorrow. I currently use IE800S for most of my listening in or out the house. 
The only thing I can’t stand about the IE800S is the cable noise and cable. I’ve always had issues with iems and cables causing irritation hence the move toward wireless. 
I have heard that the momentum true wireless share the IE800 driver, If that is the case it will be interesting to see if they have managed to get the sound quality anywhere near the IE800S. I’m not expecting it to be anywhere near given the limitations in housing design with the momentum but it’ll be interesting.


----------



## Tulku1967

firewatersun said:


> That is pretty freaking cool, I admit I can only understand like 30% of that but the results and your description of SQ seem amazing. Have you thought about a small business messing with iems? Not sure how much interest there would be, but custom or modded true wireless iems could be a niche maybe?
> 
> 
> Also that's a shame about the 120 Vartas being 50% bigger. You'd have to probably drill a hole in the MW07 acetate to have the battery sitting half outside, which might ruin the looks



Yesterday's news!

This will solve all our operating time problems


----------



## howdy

I think I'll go with the MW07, they seem to be the better one for me overall and should "compliment" my E8s. I have the Jaybird Runs for the gym and they work good for that. 
I wish I had bought the MW07 when they were on sale over black Friday.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

howdy said:


> I think I'll go with the MW07, they seem to be the better one for me overall and should "compliment" my E8s. I have the Jaybird Runs for the gym and they work good for that.
> I wish I had bought the MW07 when they were on sale over black Friday.



If the battery life isn't an issue that BF sale on the MW07 was goddamn crazy.


----------



## clerkpalmer

SomeGuyDude said:


> If the battery life isn't an issue that BF sale on the MW07 was goddamn crazy.



Yeah $225 plus a best buy add on warranty is the magic sauce on the mw07.  I keep listening to the MTW and want to like them better than the mw07 but its not going well.  I'll stop short of calling SQ average because it's better than the Jabra and cleaner and tighter than the Sony so it's definitely better than average.  I'd put in on par with the Bose probably.  Different but samey.  I want to believe the MTW is a better package than the MW07 with the improved battery, app, updates etc. but I keep getting hung up on the SQ.  Fit is good for both.  Tempted to try the RHA as well given a lot of positive comments on the SQ.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

clerkpalmer said:


> Yeah $225 plus a best buy add on warranty is the magic sauce on the mw07.  I keep listening to the MTW and want to like them better than the mw07 but its not going well.  I'll stop short of calling SQ average because it's better than the Jabra and cleaner and tighter than the Sony so it's definitely better than average.  I'd put in on par with the Bose probably.  Different but samey.  I want to believe the MTW is a better package than the MW07 with the improved battery, app, updates etc. but I keep getting hung up on the SQ.  Fit is good for both.  Tempted to try the RHA as well given a lot of positive comments on the SQ.



That's really surprising to me. If the SQ is on par with the Bose for an extra $130 that's disappointing, especially given Senn's pedigree. The E8 is what I'm curious about now. The B&O H9i sounded great but was a little thin for my tastes, however if the bass is easily boosted via the app that should level things out and make them an ideal "while I'm out in the field" set. The UA gym headphones are treating me surprisingly well for workout haha.


----------



## clerkpalmer

SomeGuyDude said:


> That's really surprising to me. If the SQ is on par with the Bose for an extra $130 that's disappointing, especially given Senn's pedigree. The E8 is what I'm curious about now. The B&O H9i sounded great but was a little thin for my tastes, however if the bass is easily boosted via the app that should level things out and make them an ideal "while I'm out in the field" set. The UA gym headphones are treating me surprisingly well for workout haha.



I am a big proponent of the Bose SQ so that's just one non-audiophiles opinion.  Unfortunately, multiple sets crapped out on me.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

clerkpalmer said:


> I am a big proponent of the Bose SQ so that's just one non-audiophiles opinion.  Unfortunately, multiple sets crapped out on me.



I never got the hate on Bose. Headphones aside I've bought several speaker sets from them and liked every one.


----------



## clerkpalmer

SomeGuyDude said:


> I never got the hate on Bose. Headphones aside I've bought several speaker sets from them and liked every one.



Nope.  Me neither.  It's well designed good sounding stuff.  The hate is overblown.  Probably because Bose markets itself as a high end audiophile company but it really is a high end consumer electronics company.  Which is just fine for me.  I'm eyeing the Speaker 500 today on ebay...


----------



## albau

SomeGuyDude said:


> If the battery life isn't an issue that BF sale on the MW07 was goddamn crazy.


Ditto. I've got them on sale at BB for $224 and, despite annoying 2.5-3 hour battery life love them to pieces, especially for the gym. Extremely engaging, dynamic and full sound without loosing clarity and detail.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

So... the e8.

I dunno if there was a MASSIVE revision on these or if I'm just lucky with the seal but I couldn't bear to have the EQ anywhere near as up toward the "warm" edge even with the medium silicones because the bass became just thunderous. This is where I use it and my primary genres are extreme metal and hip-hop.







GREAT fit, I got them for $200 flat at BB, and if the battery is north of 3hr then this is my perfect "mobile" set. Not my gym set, the UA's are just too good for that, but perfect for being out on the road and working. The connection distance is a little iffy, I had some dropouts walking around the house with the phone on the charger, but again this is more palatable than good distance but bad battery.

Transparency mode is _ugly_, though. Massive left-side sizzle, but that's not really a huge deal. Transparency is just about utility. I can deal with it.


----------



## nc8000

SomeGuyDude said:


> So... the e8.
> 
> I dunno if there was a MASSIVE revision on these or if I'm just lucky with the seal but I couldn't bear to have the EQ anywhere near as up toward the "warm" edge even with the medium silicones because the bass became just thunderous. This is where I use it and my primary genres are extreme metal and hip-hop.
> 
> ...



That’s roughly the eq I have as well and I have been getting battery just over 4 hours


----------



## SomeGuyDude

nc8000 said:


> That’s roughly the eq I have as well and I have been getting battery just over 4 hours



Good to know! Thanks dude. I'm definitely impressed thus far.


----------



## mikp

Can get the sennheisers at a little discount, but dont need another tws right now. Please tell me these are not able to power on without the case..


----------



## DarkAshura

James-uk said:


> I have got some Sennheiser momentum TW coming tomorrow. I currently use IE800S for most of my listening in or out the house.
> The only thing I can’t stand about the IE800S is the cable noise and cable. I’ve always had issues with iems and cables causing irritation hence the move toward wireless.
> I have heard that the momentum true wireless share the IE800 driver, If that is the case it will be interesting to see if they have managed to get the sound quality anywhere near the IE800S. I’m not expecting it to be anywhere near given the limitations in housing design with the momentum but it’ll be interesting.




I use IE800 as my daily. I have the exact same complaint about the wire noise on them. I would love to hear what you think of the Sennheiser TWM vs IE800S.


----------



## hifi80sman

SomeGuyDude said:


> So... the e8.
> 
> I dunno if there was a MASSIVE revision on these or if I'm just lucky with the seal but I couldn't bear to have the EQ anywhere near as up toward the "warm" edge even with the medium silicones because the bass became just thunderous. This is where I use it and my primary genres are extreme metal and hip-hop.
> 
> ...


I'm a bit of a basshead.  LOL!

Yes, the transparency is much hotter on the left side than right.  I am actually on my third pair for this very reason, but it looks like it's either a design necessity or tolerable variance in the manufacturing process.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

hifi80sman said:


> I'm a bit of a basshead.  LOL!
> 
> Yes, the transparency is much hotter on the left side than right.  I am actually on my third pair for this very reason, but it looks like it's either a design necessity or tolerable variance in the manufacturing process.



Possibility! I'm not really stressing that because I almost never use the feature except for brief moments.


----------



## hifi80sman

SomeGuyDude said:


> Possibility! I'm not really stressing that because I almost never use the feature except for brief moments.


Did you do a price match to get them for $200 flat or did you have a gift card, etc.?


----------



## SomeGuyDude (Dec 7, 2018)

hifi80sman said:


> Did you do a price match to get them for $200 flat or did you have a gift card, etc.?



Price match to $225, $25 gift card.

EDIT: Few minor updates.

There are occasional brief disconnects where the left side goes out for about a half second. Irritating but so far it's not terribly common. Still, it has happened, so that's to be watched. 

Sound-wise, I dunno why, but I like getting all crazy specific with the EQ in the app. I normally hate EQ but hey, why not? It's there so I might as well. As for the SQ of it, sure the MW07 is still better but this is so effing close to my memory of the MW07 (which, let's be honest, isn't gonna be that reliable) that while i can't give any definitive comparison I can say that the e8 doesn't leave me pining for the MW07.

Fit-wise, yeah these aren't going into the gym with me. The lack of fins or stabilizers does make them shift slightly if I'm a little too "dynamic" when I move around. Even so, mega comfortable regardless. Especially given how crazy sleek they are. Being able to easily wear any kind of hat/hood/etc is great. 

Wow I don't like the touch controls. Give me actual buttons any day. I'm just not using the onboard controls for anything because it's like literally anything I do just goes wrong somehow. 

Back to the sound, I'm just listening to a metal album I like a lot and it's putting a big stupid smile on my face. I wouldn't call it super "neutral" but then that's why I have the EQ nudged into the warm/excited area. What I care about is that it sounds big, dynamic, and full of energy. The treble can get hot with cymbals here and there, I'll admit. Hats and crashes are occasionally reeeeeally sizzly. However, that's balanced with snares sounding woody, kicks meaty as hell, and the guitar and bass always coming out powerful so... I'll say it evens out.

All in all, damn pleased with the purchase.


----------



## vladzakhar (Jan 31, 2019)

After using Earin M2 for 3 months nonstop and also trying MW07, E8, Elite 65 and others, I still think that M2 are the best true wireless earbuds overall in my humble opinion. Especially, after firmware update which fixed channel imbalance.


----------



## clerkpalmer

SomeGuyDude said:


> Good to know! Thanks dude. I'm definitely impressed thus far.


You couldn't help yourself!


vladzakhar said:


> After using Earin M2 for 3 months nonstop and also trying MW07, E8, MTW, Elite 65 and others, I still think that M2 are the best true wireless earbuds overall in my humble opinion. Especially, after firmware update which fixed channel imbalance.


how would you describe the sq versus the mw07 and mtw?


----------



## vladzakhar

By memory it's about the same, maybe mw07 a little better (clearer).


----------



## chinmie

vladzakhar said:


> After using Earin M2 for 3 months nonstop and also trying MW07, E8, MTW, Elite 65 and others, I still think that M2 are the best true wireless earbuds overall in my humble opinion. Especially, after firmware update which fixed channel imbalance.



i only have the M2 and the 65t and haven't tried the rest on your list, but i agree the M2 sound really good, it can hang easily with my wired earphones. some quirks about the M2 is the touch control (i prefer click buttons), the inability to toggle ambient mode from the unit itself, and also that when it shuts off, i have to use the case to turn it back on.

the cheaply Sabbat x12 pro is my most used TWs nowadays, as the sound is good and the battery is sooo long. also i don't need the case to turn it on and off. . actually i sometimes go out for the day just carrying the unit itself without the case.


----------



## clerkpalmer

You are tempting me in the sabbat. How would you say they sound compare to Jabra and Sony?


----------



## mikp

to those with mavin air -x, are you able to connect to win 10? Mine only connects as handsfree and not audio


----------



## SomeGuyDude

clerkpalmer said:


> You couldn't help yourself!



I've got a problem, I know lol

But at least now I really do feel settled. I'm sure the likes of the M2 and MTW are better but I got a good deal on the e8, they sound incredible to me, so I'm comfortable.

The only thing that'll throw a wrench in the cogs now is if someone comes up with a full-size wireless set to replace my VModas. Or if there's an XMas sale on the Senns.


----------



## RobinFood

I had a question about true wireless buds in general. I see a lot of the buds have charging spots where the earbud makes contact with your ear. When I had a smartwatch and the charging pins made contact with my arm all the time, I found the accumulated grease would stop it from charging sometimes, and had to be de-greased to work again. I also found that this eventually ate away at the gold plating and that it just refused to charge after a year or two.

Has anyone had issues where the earbuds refuse to charge unless you wash to contact pins with some kind of de-greasing soap or alcohol?


----------



## clerkpalmer

RobinFood said:


> I had a question about true wireless buds in general. I see a lot of the buds have charging spots where the earbud makes contact with your ear. When I had a smartwatch and the charging pins made contact with my arm all the time, I found the accumulated grease would stop it from charging sometimes, and had to be de-greased to work again. I also found that this eventually ate away at the gold plating and that it just refused to charge after a year or two.
> 
> Has anyone had issues where the earbuds refuse to charge unless you wash to contact pins with some kind of de-greasing soap or alcohol?


My charging pins get grimey from time to time. I just wipe them off. No issues.


----------



## chinmie

clerkpalmer said:


> You are tempting me in the sabbat. How would you say they sound compare to Jabra and Sony?



the Sabbat is open, so closer sounding to the likes of airpods, KSC75, portapro, and other open back headphones, whereas the Jabra and sony are closed IEMs. the Sabbat is also more natural sounding like listening to stereo speakers. i would put it above the Jabra and on the same level of the Sony. although i am using the Sony less and less now compared to the Sabbat.

keep in mind if isolation is important, then the Sabbat will not provide that


----------



## RobinFood

chinmie said:


> the Sabbat is open, so closer sounding to the likes of airpods, KSC75, portapro, and other open back headphones, whereas the Jabra and sony are closed IEMs. the Sabbat is also more natural sounding like listening to stereo speakers. i would put it above the Jabra and on the same level of the Sony. although i am using the Sony less and less now compared to the Sabbat.
> 
> keep in mind if isolation is important, then the Sabbat will not provide that



I was looking at the Sabbat and saw that it doesn't provide a lot of more modern bluetooth codecs...would you say it affects the sound compared to newer true wireless models supporting APTX?


----------



## chinmie

RobinFood said:


> I was looking at the Sabbat and saw that it doesn't provide a lot of more modern bluetooth codecs...would you say it affects the sound compared to newer true wireless models supporting APTX?



it has AAC, so at least it's on par with the Sony and the Jabra. it also has no lag (at least i don't find it) watching youtube on my note8. soundwise, i like it, in fact I'm thinking getting another one for my wife, but i got the Pamu Scroll inbound, so i will wait until it arrive first


----------



## BigZ12

I know I've posted this before, but is it possible for any of you to test and confirm this for me?
It's important, because I'm thinking of trying one more Senn' MTW set. I returned the first due to both the crackle/distortion I've mentioned before.

What I would like you test/confirm:
SBC - With all my BT headsets, I can hear a high pitch reverbereation with every bass kicks. (you need to turn up the volume to hear it clearly)
AAC/AptX - clean bass kicks with all headsets
(Headsets/Sources tested: Sony MX3, Jaybird X3, BeatsX, Prostereo H2, Avantree Clipper Pro. Sources: Avantree Leaf, CSR4.0 USB dongle, iPhone X, Macbook Pro)

For you who owns a set of Senn' MTW:
I could hear the same high pitch noise like with SBC on the left channel with the MTWs I returned. Regardless of codec in use.

The attached track is of course not the only one I hear this with, but it's a nice example.


----------



## michaeljefford

BigZ12 said:


> I know I've posted this before, but is it possible for any of you to test and confirm this for me?
> It's important, because I'm thinking of trying one more Senn' MTW set. I returned the first due to both the crackle/distortion I've mentioned before.
> 
> What I would like you test/confirm:
> ...




Just tested, no high pitched noises heard in the Left Channel.


----------



## BigZ12

michaeljefford said:


> Just tested, no high pitched noises heard in the Left Channel.


Thanks! What souce/codec did you use? Did you test it with SBC?


----------



## Edric Li (Dec 9, 2018)

I had a post earlier in this thread reviewing 6 TW earphones, and my conclusion was that Samsung iconx was the best sounding.
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/goi...are-we-there-yet.861024/page-41#post-14272225

Today I come across this amazingly comprehensive website rtings.com. According to their impressions and measurement, JBL Free and Bose Soundsport Free are the only thing better than iconx in terms of SQ, which agree with many non-audiophile youtube video I watch (which I tend to trust more than those done by self-claimed audiophile youtubers). On the other hand, the JBL's battery life sucks and the Bose does not isolate. Maybe Samsung is still the best for everyday use afterall?
https://www.rtings.com/headphones/t...ndsport-free/591/560?usage=4997&threshold=0.1

Their impressions on many other headphones seem to agree with my own experience over the years, so I am going to trust them and order the Samsung, the JBL and the Bose and find out who is the best.  Oh, and then there's the new Sennheiser...


----------



## nc8000

Edric Li said:


> I had a post earlier in this thread reviewing 6 TW earphones, and my conclusion was that Samsung iconx was the best sounding.
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/goi...are-we-there-yet.861024/page-41#post-14272225
> 
> Today I come across this amazingly comprehensive website rtings.com. According to their impressions and measurement, JBL Free and Bose Soundsport Free are the only thing better than iconx in terms of SQ, which agree with many non-audiophile youtube video I watch (which I tend to trust more than those done by self-claimed audiophile youtubers). On the other hand, the JBL's battery life sucks and the Bose does not isolate. Maybe Samsung is still the best for everyday use afterall?
> ...



Well trying yourself is the only real way to go if possible


----------



## SomeGuyDude

Was heavily unimpressed with the IconX the one time I tried them out (and I was using a Galaxy at the time so I was curious) but if others love them by all means.


----------



## dweaver (Dec 9, 2018)

I think I am going to cancel my Sennheiser purchase tomorrow. Just not trusting the mixed reviews enough to spend that kind of money.

I also just picked up a pair of AKG N200 which while not truly wireless have an extremely light cord I think I can live with and they sound pretty damned impressive. All for $150 after taxes. 8 hours of battery life and a quick 10 minute give 1hr charge if the battery dies.

Sound wise these have very good detail retrieval. The bass is deep but slightly less articulate compared a great earphone but very good for bluetooth standards. Mids are clean and very articulate as well as the treble. The sense of space and airiness is excellent.

Ergonomically speaking these are disappear comfortable yet feel very secure due to a tiny fin and good tips. They come with 4 sizes of a wide nozzle hybrid type silicone tip. I had to switch to the large tips to get the best deal. They are magnetized so they clip together around the neck when not in use.

Music wise they excel with bands like Pink Floyd and more traditional rock, as well as jazz like Patricia Barber. I tried some Infected Mushroom and Glitch Mob and thought it handled them very well. But I do not listen much EDM so take that for what it's worth.

Size wise these AKG appear to be similar to the Senns, just connected via a light cloth cable.

The headset is pretty basic though, no app for it and no special features auto stop of music when magnetically clipped together.

All in all though,music still trumps most things for me, followed by comfort, and then cutting the cable to my phone. In this regard the N200 nails 2 out of 3 and one of the most comfortable wire connected bluetooth IEMs I have tried so I would say 2.5 out of 3 .


----------



## Rickyearl

Don’t know if already posted, but Best Buy has the Jabra 65t in both copper and black right now for $120.


----------



## Rickyearl

hifi80sman said:


> Switching gears here.  I just picked up the B&O E8 (again), but this set sounds vastly different that the original set I purchased.  Let me explain:
> 
> - 1st set sounded very tinny with very little bass depth.  EQ (via B&O app) did not improve the sound much.  2nd set sounds rich, full, and responds to EQ nicely.  Bass sounds good.
> - 1st set was an older build and was part of the $199 Black Friday Promo.  2nd set was up-to-date out of the box and I picked it up on sale for $228.
> ...


Don’t know how I missed this but this is pretty dead on my experience.  It’s somewhere in this thread. The first set was detailed but clinical and a bit tinny, lacking bass and warmth - sort of like a TW version of my ER-4P. Second set much more bassy and warm, but still nothing like the MTW or what SomeGuyDude is reporting with his recent set.  

FWIW, I am still going back and forth on which is the keeper between the E8 and Senns.  Decided to take the weekend away and come back to it.

Ergonomically speaking the E8s are superior, though, hands down.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

Rickyearl said:


> Don’t know how I missed this but this is pretty dead on my experience.  It’s somewhere in this thread. The first set was detailed but clinical and a bit tinny, lacking bass and warmth - sort of like a TW version of my ER-4P. Second set much more bassy and warm, but still nothing like the MTW or what SomeGuyDude is reporting with his recent set.
> 
> FWIW, I am still going back and forth on which is the keeper between the E8 and Senns.  Decided to take the weekend away and come back to it.
> 
> Ergonomically speaking the E8s are superior, though, hands down.



I chalk it up to fit. The e8 is finicky as hell with seal but I seem to be really lucky about it. I legit cannot turn the bass up to max on my e8 without it becoming unbearable, and my post history should show that I'm always touting bassier sets. 

The periodic "blips" it gets are irritating, but I can deal with that. Battery has been right as advertised, just shy of 4hr before it's about dead at 60-70% volume. I do notice some sibilance on them, though fortunately it's not major. 

The MW07, from my recollection, sounded almost like a wired set, and while the e8 isn't on that level it's riiiiiight up close. Enough so that I rather enjoy spending a work day with them.


----------



## hifi80sman (Dec 10, 2018)

SomeGuyDude said:


> I chalk it up to fit. The e8 is finicky as hell with seal but I seem to be really lucky about it. I legit cannot turn the bass up to max on my e8 without it becoming unbearable, and my post history should show that I'm always touting bassier sets.
> 
> The periodic "blips" it gets are irritating, but I can deal with that. Battery has been right as advertised, just shy of 4hr before it's about dead at 60-70% volume. I do notice some sibilance on them, though fortunately it's not major.
> 
> The MW07, from my recollection, sounded almost like a wired set, and while the e8 isn't on that level it's riiiiiight up close. Enough so that I rather enjoy spending a work day with them.


Agreed.  The MW07 was very near wired quality, which is the main reason it was so difficult to return.  The 2.5 hour battery at only 40% volume was a killer, and even more so, because I wanted to keep listening!

The only issue I have with he E8 is the unevenness of the open mic feature.  I use it more than I thought and being a bit hot on the left side is distracting.  @Rickyearl do you notice it as well?

Skullcandy (yes, I just said Skullcandy) just came out with a pair that looks like it may be gym friendly (somewhere the E8 can't really go).  USB C.  6 hours listening time per charge.  Looks promising.  Anyone try them out yet?


----------



## SomeGuyDude

hifi80sman said:


> Agreed.  The MW07 was very near wired quality, which is the main reason it was so difficult to return.  The 2.5 hour battery at only 40% volume was a killer, and even more so, because I wanted to keep listening!
> 
> The only issue I have with he E8 is the unevenness of the open mic feature.  I use it more than I thought and being a bit hot on the left side is distracting.  @Rickyearl do you notice it as well?
> 
> Skullcandy (yes, I just said Skullcandy) just came out with a pair that looks like it may be gym friendly (somewhere the E8 can't really go).  USB C.  6 hours listening time per charge.  Looks promising.  Anyone try them out yet?



Oh the left side is sizzly as fuuuuuuh in transparency mode. I don't really care since I'll trade some mic noise for better SQ but I can absolutely see it being an irritation.

The SC looks pretty interesting for sure. I'm pretty well addicted to my Project Rock but I've noticed SkullCandy has been pulling a Beats in terms of starting to earn their price tag, so I'd really be curious to try those out.


----------



## hifi80sman

SomeGuyDude said:


> Oh the left side is sizzly as fuuuuuuh in transparency mode. I don't really care since I'll trade some mic noise for better SQ but I can absolutely see it being an irritation.
> 
> The SC looks pretty interesting for sure. I'm pretty well addicted to my Project Rock but I've noticed SkullCandy has been pulling a Beats in terms of starting to earn their price tag, so I'd really be curious to try those out.


I'm planning on picking them up at Target then hitting the gym with those bad boys.  I'll give some feedback on them in comparison to the E8 and the Sony SP700N (in the same price range, which I am returning to Target).  They sound OK but the battery life is absolutely one of the worst on the market.  I don't think I actually hit 2 hours.


----------



## clerkpalmer

hifi80sman said:


> I'm planning on picking them up at Target then hitting the gym with those bad boys.  I'll give some feedback on them in comparison to the E8 and the Sony SP700N (in the same price range, which I am returning to Target).  They sound OK but the battery life is absolutely one of the worst on the market.  I don't think I actually hit 2 hours.



Cool.  Not sure how I feel about that green.  The grey is more my speed.  Let us know how they sound and perform.  My Sonys outlasted my MW07 ...


----------



## Rickyearl

SomeGuyDude said:


> I chalk it up to fit. The e8 is finicky as hell with seal but I seem to be really lucky about it. I legit cannot turn the bass up to max on my e8 without it becoming unbearable, and my post history should show that I'm always touting bassier sets.
> 
> The periodic "blips" it gets are irritating, but I can deal with that. Battery has been right as advertised, just shy of 4hr before it's about dead at 60-70% volume. I do notice some sibilance on them, though fortunately it's not major.
> 
> The MW07, from my recollection, sounded almost like a wired set, and while the e8 isn't on that level it's riiiiiight up close. Enough so that I rather enjoy spending a work day with them.



I think there's a fit component to it for sure - the bass on the R side gets much more full and noticeable if I can wedge up in there just right.  And it lasts until it slips back down.  One reason I prefer the complys for the E8.

Yet the early set I had was definitely tinnier and more sibilant than the one I got about a month ago.  And it sounds like the first set hifi80sman had was also an early build.

I don't know about the MW07, but there's definitely a bit more treble detail in the E8 than the MTW.  The E8 just has a weird "mix," for lack of a better word.  Like if you were to go over to your Dad's 70's era hifi EQ and pull all the levers on the right side up to the top but leave the ones to the left of center untouched.  The bass is there but it feels like it's intended to be secondary. 

I could say the E8 is more accurate but the MTW is more faithful.  But even I'm not sure exactly what that means.


----------



## Rickyearl

hifi80sman said:


> Agreed.  The MW07 was very near wired quality, which is the main reason it was so difficult to return.  The 2.5 hour battery at only 40% volume was a killer, and even more so, because I wanted to keep listening!
> 
> The only issue I have with he E8 is the unevenness of the open mic feature.  I use it more than I thought and being a bit hot on the left side is distracting.  @Rickyearl do you notice it as well?
> 
> Skullcandy (yes, I just said Skullcandy) just came out with a pair that looks like it may be gym friendly (somewhere the E8 can't really go).  USB C.  6 hours listening time per charge.  Looks promising.  Anyone try them out yet?



Yeah, the transparency passthrough thing is all transistor radio-y, but I don't use it much so I've never really listened to whether it's more pronounced on one side or the other.

On the plus side the "still hear music" transparency on the MTW doesn't seem to work at all (well, it works, but the music stays too loud for it to matter), so the E8's is certainly better there.


----------



## albau

I can swear volume control buttons on the left earbud of my MW07 reverse when it reaches max, back becomes "+" and front "-" and then the opposite. Drives me crazy. Anybody has/had this?


----------



## clerkpalmer

albau said:


> I can swear volume control buttons on the left earbud of my MW07 reverse when it reaches max, back becomes "+" and front "-" and then the opposite. Drives me crazy. Anybody has/had this?



My battery died before I could ever change the volume ...


----------



## SomeGuyDude

Rickyearl said:


> I think there's a fit component to it for sure - the bass on the R side gets much more full and noticeable if I can wedge up in there just right.  And it lasts until it slips back down.  One reason I prefer the complys for the E8.
> 
> Yet the early set I had was definitely tinnier and more sibilant than the one I got about a month ago.  And it sounds like the first set hifi80sman had was also an early build.
> 
> ...



Did you futz with the settings? At center the e8 definitely sounded a bit odd, but a nudge upward and faintly right made it "wake up" to my ears. 

I had the same issue with the H9i, actually. The EQ seems like when it's in the middle and it's "off" entirely that the sound is radically different than when it's active at all. Like if it's a micro-inch in any direction things really change. After that it's more of a fine-tuning.


----------



## hifi80sman

clerkpalmer said:


> Cool.  Not sure how I feel about that green.  The grey is more my speed.  Let us know how they sound and perform.  My Sonys outlasted my MW07 ...


I cannot get 2 hours out of those puppies.  All packed up and red-to-go.  The Bose are a champ with battery life.  The SC Push TW have an advertised 6 hour battery life, which is insane for a TW setup.  We'll see, though, we'll see.


----------



## korefuji

So, is no one else happy with the Senns? I am really pleased with them. I've not experienced the problems others have, though I've had a couple of issues unrelated, but noting that would make me return them. Best TWE I've owned so far, probably on par with the MW07's, I think the Jabras weren't that far behind to be honest. I tried the bose soundsport too, having owned a pair of soundsport wired bluetooth, though comfortable, I didn't click with them tbh.

Oh my Comply TrueGrip pros arrived, they make a massive MASSIVE different to the sound and also the hold. Really good.


----------



## hifi80sman

korefuji said:


> So, is no one else happy with the Senns? I am really pleased with them. I've not experienced the problems others have, though I've had a couple of issues unrelated, but noting that would make me return them. Best TWE I've owned so far, probably on par with the MW07's, I think the Jabras weren't that far behind to be honest. I tried the bose soundsport too, having owned a pair of soundsport wired bluetooth, though comfortable, I didn't click with them tbh.
> 
> Oh my Comply TrueGrip pros arrived, they make a massive MASSIVE different to the sound and also the hold. Really good.


How's the call quality on the MTW?

I'm thinking about picking up the Jabra 65t again and give those another shot.  I know there are reports that there is a left side hiss, so I'll see if I can detect it.  @SomeGuyDude, given you are one of the few to notice a difference in the mics on the E8, we likely have similar attention to nuance and hearing ranges.  I'm tremendously OCD with my hobbies and imperfections drive me crazy.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

hifi80sman said:


> I cannot get 2 hours out of those puppies.  All packed up and red-to-go.  The Bose are a champ with battery life.  The SC Push TW have an advertised 6 hour battery life, which is insane for a TW setup.  We'll see, though, we'll see.



I got about 2.5-3 with the Sony, but the Bose are definitely battery champs of all the sets I've tried so far. Like the battery lasts long enough I just plain forget about it.


----------



## caprimulgus (Dec 10, 2018)

Hey, basshead here, looking for true wireless IEMs.

My laundry list, in order of importance:
1) AptX-LL support for portable gaming (will be used for music and Nintendo Switch with AptX-LL transmitter)
2) basshead levels of sub-bass
3) wide codec support (AAC, AptX)
4) multiple connections (eg. phone and Switch)
5) wider codec support for future proofing (AptX-HD, LDAC)

It doesn't look like there are any true wireless IEMs that fulfill all of those things. The Sennheiser MTW are the closest?

I currently have the Sennheiser Momentum Free / HD1 Free (had I known the MTW were coming out, I wouldn't have bought the HD1 Free!). The MTW has the same codec support (AptX, AptX-LL, AAC) and loses the support for multiple connections (HD1 Free can connect to 2 devices), but it is true wireless and it should have better bass (and sound quality overall)? Anyone compared the two?

Otherwise I could just stick with the HD1 Free until someone makes one with all those features. I just fear the AptX-LL support is the downfall here - it seems to be a very niche feature that not many people are be interested in (not a useful feature for general music listening), so not many options with AptX-LL support. Particularly with AptX Adaptive coming out, the MTW may be first and last option!


----------



## SomeGuyDude

The codec thing is absolutely going to be your issue. Very, very few TWE do aptx-LL, and none that I know of do LDAC or aptX-HD. Basshead is likely doable with the EQs that a lot of these come with.


----------



## caprimulgus

SomeGuyDude said:


> The codec thing is absolutely going to be your issue. Very, very few TWE do aptx-LL, and none that I know of do LDAC or aptX-HD. Basshead is likely doable with the EQs that a lot of these come with.



Yeah, AptX-LL AND LDAC/AptX-HD is probably a pipedream! Have relegated LDAC/AptX-HD to the end of the list!

Even just AptX-LL and AAC is hard enough to find!!!


----------



## cresny

Not to interrupt the fun here but after reading https://tinyurl.com/y7zdpfdx, my future hindsight tells me the answer to this thread's title is "no". The current technology is in the Palm Treo phase. I'll wait a year or so and see what comes.


----------



## caprimulgus

cresny said:


> Not to interrupt the fun here but after reading https://tinyurl.com/y7zdpfdx, my future hindsight tells me the answer to this thread's title is "no". The current technology is in the Palm Treo phase. I'll wait a year or so and see what comes.



From a quick google, it looks like that chip (QCC3026) only supports AptX Classic, while the premium chip (QCC5100) supports AptX Classic & AptXHD. Sigh...looks like AptX-LL may indeed be on the way out (at least in terms of true wireless IEMs)!


----------



## korefuji

I don't know if you remember the Samurai Buds I mentioned back a few pages ago on indiegogo I dont think they'll make their goal,. but they were planning to use the new qualcomm chip for a "true" wireless connection where both buds are master.

With regards to questions about the Senns: I have not tried the voice option on it, as I have not had any opportunity to do so. I'm not much of a talker as it is 

I understand there was another question, but I've lost it now, I think it was the same thing? Voice clarity or quality?


----------



## haveblue

Got the MTW's in. Love them, no issues with mine.

One complaint is the Transparent Hearing is a bit too quiet. Wish there was a way to adjust that.


----------



## kellte2

haveblue said:


> Got the MTW's in. Love them, no issues with mine.
> 
> One complaint is the Transparent Hearing is a bit too quiet. Wish there was a way to adjust that.


One can only hope that it’s improved with a firmware update.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

Fortunately that does seem the kinda thing they can fix with updates. 

Still in love with the e8. Just... damn impressed. Glad I got them for $200, too. Makes keeping them a little easier.


----------



## nc8000

SomeGuyDude said:


> Fortunately that does seem the kinda thing they can fix with updates.
> 
> Still in love with the e8. Just... damn impressed. Glad I got them for $200, too. Makes keeping them a little easier.



Yes if it wasn’t for the relatively frequent short random left unit cut outs it would be near perfect for me but after having the G1 with rock solid connection I struggle to go back to the E8. Off cause the G1 is missing ambient mode, only has calls in the right ear and then the physical buttons minus volume control....


----------



## hifi80sman

OK, so grabbed a pair of the Skullcandy PUSH TW at Target on sale for $99 (normally $129).  My feedback after using for about 4+ hours.

PROS
-  Strong battery.  Listed at 6 hours and I don't doubt somewhere in that range (depending on volume level, I'm normally at 40%).
-  Sounds is solid and I rather enjoy it (I had to use my own standard "large" ear tips, see CONS below).  I'm not going into this thinking they are the MW07 or B&O E8, but they are great for the gym or just going out.  Emphasized bass with some added 10 kHz treble push.  However, mids are not as recessed as you'd expect and the overall signature is warmer than neutral.
-  Mic quality is much better than I was expecting.  There are some artifacts here and there, but overall, my voice comes across clean & clear with good volume.  It's not muffled by any means.  By contrast, the Sony WF-SP700N was smoother, had about the same volume, but was a bit muffled.
-  USB-C.
-  Track & volume controls.

CONS
-  Very plastic construction (earbuds and case).
-  Case only holds 1 additional charge.  It would have been nice to have at least 2 charges in the case.
-  Stock ear tips are all small.  The default tips are the largest, but they are a bit smaller than "normal" medium tips.  The other pairs of tips are small and extra small.
-  Target identifies it as "Black", but it's really a shimmering dark green (SC calls it "Psychotropical Teal") that kind of has a black sheen in certain angles/lighting.  Pretty much a shimmering dark green.  The other color was a "gray", appears closer to white when looking at photos (Target did not have that color in stock).

Overall, for $99, I think I'm going to keep them.  They're better than the random Chi-Fi stuff I've tried at sub-$100 prices.


----------



## clerkpalmer

hifi80sman said:


> OK, so grabbed a pair of the Skullcandy PUSH TW at Target on sale for $99 (normally $129).  My feedback after using for about 4+ hours.
> 
> PROS
> -  Strong battery.  Listed at 6 hours and I don't doubt somewhere in that range (depending on volume level, I'm normally at 40%).
> ...


 
Look interesting and the fit reminds me of the Sony which is a good thing.  Engadget ran a story saying they lack any waterproofing.  So be careful at the gym. Seems like a stunning oversight given they look like gym friendly buds. At 99 look like a good deal. At 130 too much competition. The green looks acceptably dark and different. Not bad. You've got a lot of headphones man! What's your current favorite chifi iem?


----------



## hifi80sman

clerkpalmer said:


> Look interesting and the fit reminds me of the Sony which is a good thing.  Engadget ran a story saying they lack any waterproofing.  So be careful at the gym. Seems like a stunning oversight given they look like gym friendly buds. At 99 look like a good deal. At 130 too much competition. The green looks acceptably dark and different. Not bad. You've got a lot of headphones man! What's your current favorite chifi iem?


I like the wired Tunai Drum.  A little bassy, but it's really fun.

I picked up these recently, but they lack bass and had seriously poor imaging (left was far louder than right).  Returned.

As far as the gym, I think the SCs will be fine if you don't sweat much and/or have long damp hair rubbing against the buds.  At $99, shoot, if they go, then it's just an excuse to buy something else!


----------



## joshnor713

korefuji said:


> So, is no one else happy with the Senns? I am really pleased with them. I've not experienced the problems others have, though I've had a couple of issues unrelated, but noting that would make me return them. Best TWE I've owned so far, probably on par with the MW07's, I think the Jabras weren't that far behind to be honest. I tried the bose soundsport too, having owned a pair of soundsport wired bluetooth, though comfortable, I didn't click with them tbh.
> 
> Oh my Comply TrueGrip pros arrived, they make a massive MASSIVE different to the sound and also the hold. Really good.



I've finally gotten a replacement pair (my first pair were defective). After a couple days (coming from the WF-1000X), I'd say I prefer the Sony's overall. SQ is pretty close, and Sony has better ergonomics for my ears. Hard to get a good seal with the Senn's, and their bulkiness is slightly uncomfortable over a while. I may give the comply's a try, once the truegrip pro are back in stock on amazon. But honestly, contemplating not keeping the Senn's.

The other side of the argument is that the Senn's have better battery life, way better wireless signal, and I like their touch controls better than Sony's physical buttons. However, Sony's charging case is more robust and has a better shape. And the Senn's are slippery in comparison (I've already dropped them a couple times). Don't get me wrong, the Senn's are good, but feel like the WF-1000X has more going for it.


----------



## clerkpalmer

Well, my MTW randomly turned on today despite being in the case and about 50 feet away from me.  This does not bode well.  Multiple Bose soundsport frees did this to me and bose kept replacing them as defective.  I have no idea why this may have happened.  They were seated securely in the case and had not been used since Sunday.  Ugh.


----------



## joshnor713

clerkpalmer said:


> Well, my MTW randomly turned on today despite being in the case and about 50 feet away from me.  This does not bode well.  Multiple Bose soundsport frees did this to me and bose kept replacing them as defective.  I have no idea why this may have happened.  They were seated securely in the case and had not been used since Sunday.  Ugh.



I've had this problem happen with the Optoma BE Free8 and Rowkin Ascent Charge. Seems like a common problem with TW earbuds. Very annoying.


----------



## clerkpalmer

joshnor713 said:


> I've had this problem happen with the Optoma BE Free8 and Rowkin Ascent Charge. Seems like a common problem with TW earbuds. Very annoying.



And unacceptable on a $300 product.  I wonder if it bears some relation to the battery in the case dying slowly over time.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

Might be the phone, y'all. If it happens over multiple products, maybe consider the other half of the equation.


----------



## renatot

Hey there, just landed on this awesome topic. I'm banging my head with this very same dilemma, trying to figure out if a normal bluetooth IEM is a better choice than a TW at the moment.

I'm very excited about the ATH-CKR7TW specs but with no proper review so far it's hard to make a decision, especially because I'd have to wait until 22nd of April to get it, according to AT's website.

I've tried the Senn MTW on their flagship store and to be honest was a bit disappointed. I'm a big fan of the Momentum in-ear, I have one myself (and honestly, for the actual price of 69EUR I think it's probably the best value for money for a wired in-ear nowadays) but the MTW sounded a bit too flat to me. Also, they might have somehow limited the volume to make the battery of the testing pair last longer (which sounds like a dumb move when you're trying to demo your product for potential customers) because it was way too low.

MW07 seems like a good option although the short battery life is a bummer. Earin M2 looks like a good deal but I can't find good reviews and it's simply impossible to find one for testing at any store.

At this point, I'm starting to consider some normal bluetooth IEMs, if I'm gonna spend 300 bucks on a new IEM, they better sound accordingly. Not sure the premium price for being TW is worth. Thoughts?


----------



## clerkpalmer

renatot said:


> Hey there, just landed on this awesome topic. I'm banging my head with this very same dilemma, trying to figure out if a normal bluetooth IEM is a better choice than a TW at the moment.
> 
> I'm very excited about the ATH-CKR7TW specs but with no proper review so far it's hard to make a decision, especially because I'd have to wait until 22nd of April to get it, according to AT's website.
> 
> ...



It depends on whether you would feel liberated enough by no wires to have trade offs primarily trades offs on SQ and battery life.  True wireless is a step behind the best BT IEMS still in those two categories.  I haven't tried them all but the MW07 comes closest on sound.  To me anyway, the MTW is a bit of a disappointment on the SQ.  They seem to lack some high end sparkle and I think that's what's missing most to me.  For on the go listening and gym use, I'm going TW from here on out because the form factor is awesome.  The SQ gap is small and I don't need extended battery for most of my usage.  If I'm listening at home, I'm going full size cans.    Here is a though:  (1) TW for true portable needs and the gym; (2) a decent chi-fi wired IEM plus the Radstone ES100 for times when you want some better SQ on the go and (3) full size cans for critical listening.  The Radstone ES100 plus wired IEM's is almost the equivalent of a "corded" BT IEM and opens the door to much better sound.


----------



## Rickyearl

clerkpalmer said:


> And unacceptable on a $300 product.  I wonder if it bears some relation to the battery in the case dying slowly over time.


Don't know if this is related, but by accident I noticed that I could have my MTW play while in the case "charging" if I took both buds out, then while playing music put one back in the case.  They both continue to play as long as they're close enough together.  Then when I put the second one in the case, they both still played music sitting in the case.  They also did not charge until I plugged the USB-C cable.

On the plus side, after this happened they now seem to keep the exact same charge level in the app, plus or minus a percent.  Prior to this, after at least 10 minutes use from a full charge, the app always told me the left one was about 10% lower than the right.

FWIW, on @SomeGuyDude 's thought about using the E8's app EQ feature to "waken" the sound, I started playing with both apps.  Now I have the MTW EQ about a third to the treble side and a third up and the MTWs sound better than the E8s in pretty much every way.  

The E8's app EQ does very little IMO - just kind of little "tweaks" to the music, even at the extreme edges of the screen.  Much less than the MTW app's EQ, which can totally alter the sound (to unlistenable levels) at the extremes.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

Rickyearl said:


> The E8's app EQ does very little IMO - just kind of little "tweaks" to the music, even at the extreme edges of the screen.  Much less than the MTW app's EQ, which can totally alter the sound (to unlistenable levels) at the extremes.



This is like, the exact opposite of my experience. I have to be really careful with the B&O app because even a nudge in a given direction makes the sound colossally different. If it's in the dead center ("off" I guess) then it sounds like a completely different set. I can't put it at the extremes or it turns ridiculous.


----------



## korefuji

I duno if I would go back to wired headphones again, I mean bluetooth is only going to get better, or will be replaced by like better tech, and the result will be better performance, and hopefully sound quality to. I think anyone grabbing a pair in the last year or two are guinea pig testing these devices. The tech isn't quite there yet, because each tw seems to have it's own quirks or flaws. It should be pretty mature I hope in the next couple of years, and the senns' will do me find for those years I think. Its like one day being bold then having free flowing locks again. like some stallion


----------



## chinmie

saw this on youtube, a review of the Jlab Jbuds air, and he thinks that it is better sounding than the Sennheiser. it is his personal opinion, but worth to consider


----------



## nc8000

SomeGuyDude said:


> This is like, the exact opposite of my experience. I have to be really careful with the B&O app because even a nudge in a given direction makes the sound colossally different. If it's in the dead center ("off" I guess) then it sounds like a completely different set. I can't put it at the extremes or it turns ridiculous.



Yes I also find the E8 app EQ able to produce quit big changes


----------



## SomeGuyDude

chinmie said:


> saw this on youtube, a review of the Jlab Jbuds air, and he thinks that it is better sounding than the Sennheiser. it is his personal opinion, but worth to consider




While I'm not saying his opinion isn't valid given that I haven't heard either product, the idea that JLab, not exactly a company known for their high-end products, made a $50 TWE that sounds better than Sennheiser's $300 one strikes me as... unlikely.


----------



## chinmie

SomeGuyDude said:


> While I'm not saying his opinion isn't valid given that I haven't heard either product, the idea that JLab, not exactly a company known for their high-end products, made a $50 TWE that sounds better than Sennheiser's $300 one strikes me as... unlikely.



yup, but it does make want to try the Jlabs, just to make sure . at least i can give it to relatives if i don't like it


----------



## clerkpalmer

If the JLab buds have the same drivers as the new epic air then I can say they sound very good but not as good as the senns. They are fun sounding with boosted bass. At 50 they would be a great option however.


----------



## webvan

That's one odd "review", hehe...What he describes of the sound reminds me a bit of the Havit G1, same price category too. He doesn't say much about isolation though ?


----------



## Spamateur

Out of curiosity I went through Amazon Japan's reviews of the Audio Technica CKR7TW to find out what folks were saying and it looks like some mixed reviews so far (current overall review score is 3/5 stars). Using Google translate, from what I could gather the sound signature tends to be bright and light on bass. There are also several reports of significant lag, so using them to watch videos might be a chore. While I'm taking these reviews with a grain of salt (especially with the language barrier), it's not looking promising.


----------



## clerkpalmer

Someone on here had a pair coming from Japan. Any updates?


----------



## Rickyearl

SomeGuyDude said:


> This is like, the exact opposite of my experience. I have to be really careful with the B&O app because even a nudge in a given direction makes the sound colossally different. If it's in the dead center ("off" I guess) then it sounds like a completely different set. I can't put it at the extremes or it turns ridiculous.





nc8000 said:


> Yes I also find the E8 app EQ able to produce quit big changes



Huh.  I have a hard time even hearing the difference unless I really turn the E8s up to full volume (which isn't super loud, BTW) and listen carefully.  In practice it's roughly like one notch on an EQ slider in total, if that.

I had my wife try and she agreed - so it's not my ears.

In contrast, the MTW's EQ all the way up or all the way down sounds bad to the point of being hilarious, even more so than a typical EQ would.  Bottom center produces an over-the-top V shaped sound - all low bass and high treble, no mids.  Top center opposite.

On the E8, fully to "Excited" brings things like cymbals forward just a touch but that's really it.  Warm puts them back a touch.  Relaxed muddies things slightly.  Bright enhances sibilance.  All to an almost unnoticeable degree.  

Was the same on the first set of E8s I had.

So could it be the source? I'm mainly on an iPhone XS and sometimes an iPad Pro 2015.  Listening to Spotify, YouTube, Apple Music, and Soma.


----------



## clerkpalmer

I think I'm going to go back to the M&D MW07 from the Senns.  If anyone is interested in a lightly used MTW at a discount, pm me.


----------



## BigZ12 (Dec 12, 2018)

I got a new set of Senn' MTWs today. Sorry to say... Exactly the same "flaws" on new set... 
Crackle on right with the earlier attached examples.

Metallic reverberation/noise/distortion/cling/ringing on bass drum kicks on left. Only on left with AAC and AptX, on both channels with SBC codec.
As stated several times, all of my other BT headsets have this with SBC, but clean on AAC/AptX.

Those of you who tested this... didn't you have the chance to test with different codecs, didn't you play loud enough or are you deaf?  (no offence, just a little frustrated)

Does the MTWs have some kind of codec issue? It isn't possible that the left speaker is SBC, and the right is AAC/AptX?


----------



## BigZ12

Turn up the volume at the start, and test the bass drum kicks yourself.


----------



## Rickyearl (Dec 12, 2018)

BigZ12 said:


> I got a new set of Senn' MTWs today. Sorry to say... Exactly the same "flaws" on new set...
> Crackle on right with the earlier attached examples.
> 
> Metallic reverberation/noise/distortion/cling/ringing on bass drum kicks on left. Only on left with AAC and AptX, on both channels with SBC codec.
> ...



Happy to do it, but my only devices are iPad and iPhone and I don't know how to change codecs.  I can do it on my home PC but it doesn't have bluetooth (desktop) and my company laptop has bluetooth disabled due to corporate paranoia.

EDIT - FWIW, on that last sample I hear it on the HK computer speakers directly connected to said paranoid laptop.  Also when connected to the Sony stereo in my office.  Both sides.  The early drumbeats crackle.


----------



## jeffri

clerkpalmer said:


> Someone on here had a pair coming from Japan. Any updates?



Mine were delayed as I'm waiting for someone travelling from Japan to get it here. But good news, it will arrive soon, later this week.


----------



## BigZ12

Rickyearl said:


> Happy to do it, but my only devices are iPad and iPhone and I don't know how to change codecs.  I can do it on my home PC but it doesn't have bluetooth (desktop) and my company laptop has bluetooth disabled due to corporate paranoia.
> 
> EDIT - FWIW, on that last sample I hear it on the HK computer speakers directly connected to said paranoid laptop.  Also when connected to the Sony stereo in my office.  Both sides.  The early drumbeats crackle.


Ok, thanks for trying. 
It's not a crackle as the one on the right.
I have not this noise/distortion on my stereo (HTPC connected to Yamaha receiver and cabled front speakers)

I can't find other words than what I wrote to describe it. (Metallic reverberation/noise/distortion/cling/ringing that follow the bass kick/beat)
I'm sure you you'd hear it when you first listen with AAC/AptX and then SBC or the other way round. (with other BT headphones than the MTWs  )


----------



## BigZ12 (Dec 12, 2018)

BigZ12 said:


> I got a new set of Senn' MTWs today. Sorry to say... Exactly the same "flaws" on new set...
> Crackle on right with the earlier attached examples.
> 
> Metallic reverberation/noise/distortion/cling/ringing on bass drum kicks on left. Only on left with AAC and AptX, on both channels with SBC codec.
> ...


I used a Macbook Pro, where I switched through the three codecs.
Even the Sony WH-1000MX3 has the noise with SBC, but clean as a wistle with AAC/AptX


----------



## clerkpalmer

Cnet loves the MTW:  https://www.cnet.com/reviews/sennheiser-momentum-true-wireless-review/

Second review I've seen mentioning no sweatproofing but Senn website clearly says IPX4.  What am I missing on that topic?


----------



## hifi80sman

Rickyearl said:


> Don't know if this is related, but by accident I noticed that I could have my MTW play while in the case "charging" if I took both buds out, then while playing music put one back in the case.  They both continue to play as long as they're close enough together.  Then when I put the second one in the case, they both still played music sitting in the case.  They also did not charge until I plugged the USB-C cable.
> 
> On the plus side, after this happened they now seem to keep the exact same charge level in the app, plus or minus a percent.  Prior to this, after at least 10 minutes use from a full charge, the app always told me the left one was about 10% lower than the right.
> 
> ...





SomeGuyDude said:


> This is like, the exact opposite of my experience. I have to be really careful with the B&O app because even a nudge in a given direction makes the sound colossally different. If it's in the dead center ("off" I guess) then it sounds like a completely different set. I can't put it at the extremes or it turns ridiculous.


Same experience here.  The B&O app for me changes the sound rather drastically in any direction.  This is not to say what the MTW app does or does not do, since I haven't actually had the MTW to test yet.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

Rickyearl said:


> Huh.  I have a hard time even hearing the difference unless I really turn the E8s up to full volume (which isn't super loud, BTW) and listen carefully.  In practice it's roughly like one notch on an EQ slider in total, if that.
> 
> I had my wife try and she agreed - so it's not my ears.
> 
> ...



Possibly? Because your experience with the E8 isn't anything even resembling mine. I also can't turn the e8 up to full volume. This is about as loud as I put it (and given the album it should be clear I like loud music):







I cannot turn them up the whole way and the EQ is so effective for me that I end up being super, super particular about where I put it. Dunno what's up. Pixel 3XL.


----------



## hifi80sman

chinmie said:


> yup, but it does make want to try the Jlabs, just to make sure . at least i can give it to relatives if i don't like it


Thinking the same thing here, actually.  Christmas is coming up and I have some teens in the family that would like something like this (if I don't).  A couple years back, I repackaged a Beats Solo2 I got that was past the return period and gave it as a gift.  I was like, their hero, and they thought I was sooo generous!  LOL!  Man, I just couldn't return it and was too lazy to sell it, bruh!


----------



## Rickyearl

SomeGuyDude said:


> Possibly? Because your experience with the E8 isn't anything even resembling mine. I also can't turn the e8 up to full volume. This is about as loud as I put it (and given the album it should be clear I like loud music):
> 
> 
> 
> ...



It's just so weird.  All though they sound totally different neither pair of E8s I have owned would ever be called "bassy" or "loud" by anyone.  

I am going to see if I can find someone with an Android device and see if they'll let me install the B&O App.


----------



## clerkpalmer (Dec 12, 2018)

BigZ12 said:


> Turn up the volume at the start, and test the bass drum kicks yourself.



I just tried this with my MTW. Sounds Crystal clear my friend. Me thinks something going on with your source. Just put comply truegrip on as well. Nice improvement.  Edit: actually the comply really change things up for the better.  Fuller sound.  I took the advice above and bumped the EQ toward treble about 1/3 of the way and straight up.  I think I've found the magic sauce for the MTW.


----------



## nc8000

Rickyearl said:


> Huh.  I have a hard time even hearing the difference unless I really turn the E8s up to full volume (which isn't super loud, BTW) and listen carefully.  In practice it's roughly like one notch on an EQ slider in total, if that.
> 
> I had my wife try and she agreed - so it's not my ears.
> 
> ...



I use an iPhone8 and also the iPad Pro 10.5 and there is no way I could listen at full volume, I get to 60 perhaps 70 % in very noisy situations and beyond that it would kill my ears


----------



## Rickyearl

clerkpalmer said:


> I just tried this with my MTW. Sounds Crystal clear my friend. Me thinks something going on with your source. Just put comply truegrip on as well. Nice improvement.  Edit: actually the comply really change things up for the better.  Fuller sound.  I took the advice above and bumped the EQ toward treble about 1/3 of the way and straight up.  I think I've found the magic sauce for the MTW.



Yeah, that bump up and to the left really helps.  I tried the complys I use for my e8 ("isolation" with the sweat guard - they fit) and wasn't wowed.   Do you think the true grips being shorter help?


----------



## Rickyearl

nc8000 said:


> I use an iPhone8 and also the iPad Pro 10.5 and there is no way I could listen at full volume, I get to 60 perhaps 70 % in very noisy situations and beyond that it would kill my ears



If you use Spotify, can you give me a sample track that would hurt your ears at full volume?


----------



## BigZ12

clerkpalmer said:


> I just tried this with my MTW. Sounds Crystal clear my friend. Me thinks something going on with your source. Just put comply truegrip on as well. Nice improvement.  Edit: actually the comply really change things up for the better.  Fuller sound.  I took the advice above and bumped the EQ toward treble about 1/3 of the way and straight up.  I think I've found the magic sauce for the MTW.


Did you turn up the volume to minimum 2/3? (or even higher?)

It can't be my sources. Tried Macbook Pro, iPhone, Avantree Leaf AptX dongle etc
SBC always distortion
AAC/AptX left channel on MTWs (Crystal clear on all others)

What's your source when testing?

Screenshot of EQ settings?


----------



## clerkpalmer

BigZ12 said:


> Did you turn up the volume to minimum 2/3? (or even higher?)
> 
> It can't be my sources. Tried Macbook Pro, iPhone, Avantree Leaf AptX dongle etc
> SBC always distortion
> ...



I did not turn up that loud.  My old tinnitus filled ears can't handle that.  IPhone XS Max.  EQ is up about 1/2 inch and right 1/2 inch to brighten up the sound.


----------



## nc8000

Rickyearl said:


> If you use Spotify, can you give me a sample track that would hurt your ears at full volume?



I only play Audible audio books and local 320kb aac files and on the iPad films from the iTunes store. In normal ambient noise I never get over about 60%


----------



## SomeGuyDude

Rickyearl said:


> If you use Spotify, can you give me a sample track that would hurt your ears at full volume?



Do you have volume normalization on, perchance?


----------



## Rickyearl

SomeGuyDude said:


> Do you have volume normalization on, perchance?


Nope, double-checked to be sure.


----------



## renatot

Spamateur said:


> Out of curiosity I went through Amazon Japan's reviews of the Audio Technica CKR7TW to find out what folks were saying and it looks like some mixed reviews so far (current overall review score is 3/5 stars). Using Google translate, from what I could gather the sound signature tends to be bright and light on bass. There are also several reports of significant lag, so using them to watch videos might be a chore. While I'm taking these reviews with a grain of salt (especially with the language barrier), it's not looking promising.



There's definitely not enough reviews yet to reach any conclusion and most of them are complaining about audio lag like you said, which is bad but not a deal breaker for me. I still have high hopes for it in terms of SQ but not sure I want to wait until end of April. I hope someone from this forum gets its hands on a pair and makes a more detailed review soon...


----------



## BigZ12

clerkpalmer said:


> I did not turn up that loud.  My old tinnitus filled ears can't handle that.  IPhone XS Max.  EQ is up about 1/2 inch and right 1/2 inch to brighten up the sound.


I don't hear it either with 50-60% volume... you have to crank it up a little further to hear it.


----------



## renatot

clerkpalmer said:


> It depends on whether you would feel liberated enough by no wires to have trade offs primarily trades offs on SQ and battery life.  True wireless is a step behind the best BT IEMS still in those two categories.  I haven't tried them all but the MW07 comes closest on sound.  To me anyway, the MTW is a bit of a disappointment on the SQ.  They seem to lack some high end sparkle and I think that's what's missing most to me.  For on the go listening and gym use, I'm going TW from here on out because the form factor is awesome.  The SQ gap is small and I don't need extended battery for most of my usage.  If I'm listening at home, I'm going full size cans.    Here is a though:  (1) TW for true portable needs and the gym; (2) a decent chi-fi wired IEM plus the Radstone ES100 for times when you want some better SQ on the go and (3) full size cans for critical listening.  The Radstone ES100 plus wired IEM's is almost the equivalent of a "corded" BT IEM and opens the door to much better sound.



My focus would be primarily on SQ, True Wireless is definitely more convenient but I'd prefer a normal BT IEM if the SQ is really that superior. Any recommendations for BT IEMs until $300? The Shure 215 seems like a good option but compared to the Senn Momentum IE I don't think I'd feel much of a difference and I was hoping my next purchase would be an upgrade in terms of quality... not an easy decision anyway....


----------



## clerkpalmer

renatot said:


> My focus would be primarily on SQ, True Wireless is definitely more convenient but I'd prefer a normal BT IEM if the SQ is really that superior. Any recommendations for BT IEMs until $300? The Shure 215 seems like a good option but compared to the Senn Momentum IE I don't think I'd feel much of a difference and I was hoping my next purchase would be an upgrade in terms of quality... not an easy decision anyway....



You probably won't do better per se.  Maybe different.  RHA MA750 and VModa Forza metallo wireless come to mind.  You might check out the RBH BT IEM which includes LDAC but reviews on SQ are meh. I've had both the RHA and VModa - I preferred the VModa slightly.  The Beoplay H6 (I think) sits at $300 and is supposed to sound nice.  Good luck.


----------



## renatot

clerkpalmer said:


> You probably won't do better per se.  Maybe different.  RHA MA750 and VModa Forza metallo wireless come to mind.  You might check out the RBH BT IEM which includes LDAC but reviews on SQ are meh. I've had both the RHA and VModa - I preferred the VModa slightly.  The Beoplay H6 (I think) sits at $300 and is supposed to sound nice.  Good luck.



The H6 is over-ear and I'm fine with my ATH-M40x but the TW BeoPlay E8 is on sale for 169EUR! For something that launched but 299, the price is tempting and suspicious at the same time. I've read mixed reviews about it in this forum, some people like it a lot, some people had really bad experience with it.... but man, for 169... sounds like a great deal.


----------



## Spamateur

I'm so confused by the latest E8 reports. I tried a pair 7 months ago and found it to be atrocious in sound quality, with a frequency response that was all over the map. Treble was tinny, mids were thin, weird subbass hump with a dip in the midbass... I was shocked at how bad it was for a company like B&O which I respected and no amount of playing with the Beoplay's app EQ seemed to help it. Now I'm reading they might have improved them? I loved the fit and ease of use so now I'm intrigued again.


----------



## nc8000

Spamateur said:


> I'm so confused by the latest E8 reports. I tried a pair 7 months ago and found it to be atrocious in sound quality, with a frequency response that was all over the map. Treble was tinny, mids were thin, weird subbass hump with a dip in the midbass... I was shocked at how bad it was for a company like B&O which I respected and no amount of playing with the Beoplay's app EQ seemed to help it. Now I'm reading they might have improved them? I loved the fit and ease of use so now I'm intrigued again.



I’ve had mine since the day they launched and have heard nothing like what you describe and apart from the random left unit cut outs and them not being able to turn on if the case is flat have had no problems


----------



## Spamateur

nc8000 said:


> I’ve had mine since the day they launched and have heard nothing like what you describe and apart from the random left unit cut outs and them not being able to turn on if the case is flat have had no problems



Yeah, it's weird how all over the place the experiences have been with the e8, but I do have to say they sounded very close to what was measured over at Rtings: https://www.rtings.com/headphones/reviews/b-o-play/beoplay-e8

Now I'm seriously wondering if B&O had a bad run of units or perhaps they improved the design or firmware in the past few months. I remember being quite let down, particularly when considering the price premium over the 65t I still have, which I think are "just ok" in terms of SQ.


----------



## howdy

Spamateur said:


> Yeah, it's weird how all over the place the experiences have been with the e8, but I do have to say they sounded very close to what was measured over at Rtings: https://www.rtings.com/headphones/reviews/b-o-play/beoplay-e8
> 
> Now I'm seriously wondering if B&O had a bad run of units or perhaps they improved the design or firmware in the past few months. I remember being quite let down, particularly when considering the price premium over the 65t I still have, which I think are "just ok" in terms of SQ.


I've had my E8s for a few months now and really love the sound. I initially used the JVC spiral tips but just got the Spinfits and I now have a new favorite. They work great with the E8s and still fit in the case.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

I really think the e8 issue is related to software as well as fit.

I say this because today when I was walking around the house I seemed to go _slightly_ out of range, which cause the connection to cut a few times and when it returned, the e8 sounded really weird. Tin-can weird, oddly hollow. Putting them back in the case and popping them back out and into my ears seemed to straighten it out.


----------



## kevinscottcaja (Dec 15, 2018)

Hello all, so I got both the Mavin Air-X and the Mifo O5 (Balanced armature version). The Mavin Air-X is priced around 129USD and I got the Mifo O5 at a very cheap price of HK$160 (20.50USD) due to coupon discounts I got for a local store here in Hong Kong, their original price is HK$599 (US$76.70) which is cheaper than Aliexpress.




My preferred sound signature is warm neutral or neutral with slight bass boost (I’m very sensitive to treble so warm sound signature is a plus for me). Think of the Earin M2 as an example to describe the sound signature I prefer on a TWS (I have the Earin M2 in my collection of TWS IEMs). There are also times I prefer warm and bassy sounding IEMS like the UMPro50 or the FAD E5000 which I both have in my collection of wired IEMs.

I’ve been using both the Air-X and O5 for a few weeks now and both connected on my iPhone X (with AAC codec – More on that later), below are my short impressions about them using all default eartips that came in the box:

*Mavin Air-X:*
*Sound Signature* – They are a V shaped sounding TWS with emphasis on treble. The soundstage is not that wide but at the same time not narrow. You still have a sense of stage and can distinguish the placement of instruments in the music but not that much compared on neckband Bluetooth IEMs or IEMs connected in Bluetooth receivers like BTR3 or ES100.

*Bass* – They are deep and linear; however, they are overpowered by the treble so some people may find the bass lacking on treble specific music (mostly electronic music). Sub bass is present and deep but not much elevated, bass is good and does not bleed in the mids, they are thumphy and when called upon, can hit hard.

*Mids* – The mids are a bit recessed and can be lacking at times, vocals can sound distant but not much. Using a pair of foam eartips or at least stuffing the silicone eartip with some Polyurethane foam can attenuate the treble a bit bringing the mids back up and can also boost the bass and sub bass by a good margin.

*Treble *– They are present and can be over powering at times. EDM can easily be fatiguing on people like me who are sensitive to treble. There are also times that music sound very sibilant like sounding from a low bitrate music, making the treble sound more unatural (more on this later). One solution I found to attenuate the treble on comfortable levels is by placing Polyurethane foam in the silicone nozzle. Using a foam eartips can also help with the trebled but I prefer on using silicone eartips as they are very comfortable to my ears.



*Battery life* – They lasted me around 6 to 7 hours connected on my iPhone X and at 60% volume. They are great considering a lot of TWS does not even last more than 5 hours. Charging them in the case is quick. Only took around 40 to 45 minutes from dead to fully charged.

*Connection* – They use Bluetooth 5.0 and are have a very stable connection between the buds and my phone. I don’t get any dropouts during my commute. These TWS uses Bluetooth connection for both buds, they don’t have this NFMI (Near-field magnetic induction communication) to communicate with the master and slave like the ones on Earin, Jabra, B&O, Sennheiser and etc. I will consider this as an advantage as the implementation of NFMI are different meaning that the slave earbud actually plays the sound as SBC while the master is AAC (or aptX if supported), this is why some TWS may sound imbalanced (Jabra Elite 65T had this problem in past) when the connection is poor or susceptible to electromagnetic interference. Another advantage of Bluetooth to Bluetooth connection is you can share the other earbud with someone, even when they are a few meters away. Pairing processes is as simple as opening the case and pressing the pairing button at the left side of the charging case, you’ll see AirX_L in your Bluetooth list, then connect to it. Once paired, all you have to do is to take out the buds and place them in your ears, and they’ll connect automatically in less than 2 seconds.

The earbuds use the new QCC3026 chipset; Bluetooth to Bluetooth connection in between the earbuds are actually better that the old CSR chipset, and even better than NFMI at most times. According to Qualcomm, when paired on a device running a Snapdragon 845, both buds will be connected on the phone, but since I’m running an iPhone, the Air-X paired the traditional way, where the left side is the master and the right side is the slave, however this will depend on which side you take out of the charging case first. When already paired, taking out the right side will make it the master and the left side as the slave.

*Mic and call quality* – The mics of the Air-X are okay, especially if you are in a silent room, or an office with aircon noise, taking them out the streets the other party in a call will not hear you. 65T mics are better at handling outside noise.

*Build quality* – They are made of plastic, the one I got is Piano black. The earbuds themselves feel cheap and are also made of plastic. The charging case does squeak a bit when you squeeze the case but not that much.

*Mifo O5:*
*Sound Signature* – They are warm sounding TWS. They remind me of the Earin M2 in the sound signature and in fact they sound almost the same although the Mifo O5 has much clearer treble and wider soundstage, bass is clear and sub bass is present and thumphy, mids are lush, treble is smooth and clear and not fatiguing. Soundstage is better than the Air-X, they are not that wide compared to neckband IEMs but they are definitely better.

*Bass* – The bass and sub bass are very clear, they are not dynamic driver level of bass, but they are fun to listen to, there are times however that it can be lacking, especially when I use them in the subway. The Air-X has much more bass and sub bass but not by a large margin.

*Mids* – The mids are lush and clear, as expected on balanced armature drivers, they produce mids very clear and natural, the instrument separation is spot on and you can easily find the instruments in the music. Vocals sound natural for both male and female.

*Treble* – The treble is smooth and clear without overpowering. Cymbals and hi-hats sound natural. People who are used to treble boosted IEMs may find them lacking.

*Battery life* – They claimed about 7 hours of battery life and I got 6 to 7 hours battery life at 60% volume connected to my iPhone X. They also charge fast too, similar to the Air-X. The charging case however does not provide any battery level indicator, so you won’t be able to know the battery level of the charging case. The case does provide a 100-hour total charge on the earbuds so all I have to do is just charge the case every three to four days.

*Connection* – The O5 uses Bluetooth 5.0 as well, they are very stable and does not dropout during my commute. The O5 also uses Bluetooth to Bluetooth connection, the pairing process is as simple as taking out the right side earbud and selecting “mifo_O5” in your Bluetooth list, once paired, it will remember the last connected device and all you have to do is take out the buds and place them to your ears, they will connect automatically in less than two seconds. One disadvantage is you cannot use the right side as the slave, if you try to connect the left side to your phone, the right side will not connect. The chipset information of the O5 are unknown. Using Bluetooth explorer while the buds are connected to the Mac shows “Unknown Manufacturer”.

UPDATE: After hours of analysing RF data, the chipset being used by the O5 is the Realtek RTL8763B, it seems to be a direct competitor with Qualcomm's QCC3026 as it boast long battery life and very efficient power consumption. The only downside is lack of Aptx support which obviously is a Qualcomm specific and chipset dependant feature.

The voice prompts too are one of the disadvantages as its only available in Chinese and have no way to change to English. Unless of course Mifo releases an app to control, configure and update the earbuds but I doubt that will happen.

*Mic and call quality* – The shape of the O5 has similarities with the 65T where the mic sticks out a little bit. The sensitivity is actually a lot better than the Air-X, however when also used outside the streets, the other party can hardly make the words I’m speaking.

*Build quality* – The charging case is made of aluminum. It built like a tank and does not flex or squeak when I squeeze it, the buds themselves are made of plastic but are coated in this matte rubbery texture, the outer face is then coated with a silver matte reflective coating, all in all they feel premium despite the very cheap original price of HK$599 (US$76.70)

*Codec quality of both the O5 and Air-X:*
So, I was curious if the two TWS earbuds are actually using AAC on my iPhone, so I connected my phone to my Mac and opened up console. I also wanted to check the realtime bitrate when I place my phone in my right pocket of my pants. Both of them do support AAC. The O5 has a max bitrate of 221kbps while the Air-X has a max bitrate of 256kbps. I was expecting the Mifo O5 to perform the worse but to my surprise, the Air-X actually performed the worse. The Air-X while having a maximum bitrate of 256kbps AAC, it actually dropped around 192kbps AAC and jumping around 244kbps AAC, this is when the phone in my right pocket and the buds in both of my ears with the right side as the master and left side as the slave. This probably explains why some music sounded sibilant and unatural

The O5 on the other hand has a maximum bitrate of 221kbps AAC and amazingly, it maintained the 221kbps bitrate with the phone in my right pocket, and the right earbud the master, and the left earbud the slave.

Mifo O5 realtime bitrate

Mifo O5 max bitrate


Mavin Air-X realtime bitrate


Mavin Air-X max bitrate (also shows a bunch of errors)


*Conclusion*
All in all, I like the Mifo O5 and would recommend it than the Air-X, not only it is cheap, it’s actually a good pair of TWS. Good signal connection quality and easy pairing, great sound, very good build quality, decent battery life and a choice of driver between a balanced armature and a dynamic driver for people who love their bass and sound of a dynamic driver. I still think the Mavin Air-X is great TWS only flawed by bad implementation of the QCC3026, its a kickstarter project and I will assume they've rushed things to meet the demands of their backers.


----------



## chinmie

kevinscottcaja said:


> Hello all, so I got both the Mavin Air-X and the Mifo O5 (Balanced armature version). The Mavin Air-X is priced around 129USD and I got the Mifo O5 at a very cheap price of HK$160 (20.50USD) due to coupon discounts I got for a local store here in Hong Kong, their original price is HK$599 (US$76.70) which is cheaper than Aliexpress.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



thank you because I'm also eyeing for the Mifo o5. how is the bass in comparison to the M2? also can it be switch on and off without using the case and pair to the phone? (something that the M2 can't do) because if it can do that i think it can potentially last a day of use even without carrying the case. also does the little buttons hard to push? and does it have ambient mode?


----------



## mikp

kevinscottcaja said:


> Hello all, so I got both the Mavin Air-X and the Mifo O5 (Balanced armature version). The Mavin Air-X is priced around 129USD and I got the Mifo O5 at a very cheap price of HK$160 (20.50USD) due to coupon discounts I got for a local store here in Hong Kong, their original price is HK$599 (US$76.70) which is cheaper than Aliexpress.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Good review, I also got the mavin out of curiosity of the chipset and apt-x. Really was waiting for the qualcomm 5 series with anc.
Im now trying them with foam tips, since the case has no problem with different tips. I think foam makes them sound better as you mentioned, but foam is fiddly with my ears.

Im enjoying the sound better on the mavin that the 65t, wider soundstage and punchier bass. Just sounds "cleaner".

The 65t is still my preferred ones when hiking etc, just easier to put on and fit. Plus the sound passhtrough is good and it has multipoint.

What im waiting for is some tws with all of 65t functions, but better sound and codecs.


----------



## dweaver (Dec 13, 2018)

Well I got busy and didn't cancel my Sennheiser order and this morning I see they have now shipped so I guess I am going to be testing them at the least.

Will be able to compare them against my WF700N and will compare them against the AKG N200 as well.

Wearing the N200 as I type while sitting on the bus and they are an excellent sounding IEM so the MTW will have their work cut out for them. The N200 also have very good audio when talking to people on the phone so another area the MTW will have to great at. The N200 cable does pull slightly on my neck though so constantly needs to be adjusted which is annoying so this will be one area the MTW will definitely be better. Interestingly I have had the N200 die once already and have had battery warnings the next day before I got home from work. So its battery life is an optimistic 8 hrs so it will be interesting if I find the MTW more or less frustrating in this regard.

Wow may have them today! According to FedEx...


----------



## silverfishla

I’m going to wait a little before jumping into the TWS fray.  I see on Ali that more and more ones are popping up.  I think that the big name ones are just too expensive right now and that there’s room for the prices to come down.  Waiting for a good name iem (Chinese brand) to release some sort of flagship version and start the ball rolling.   I tried the Bose ones, and they sounded good, but I didn’t like the build quality so much.  I’ll be watching this thread progress as the months pass, for sure.  The freedom from wires is an underrated attribute to audio experience.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

I'm curious if a product on Ali will become good, but I trust a tech items like TWE from ChiFi companies about as much as I'd trust them with a laptop or TV.


----------



## Rickyearl

Spamateur said:


> Yeah, it's weird how all over the place the experiences have been with the e8, but I do have to say they sounded very close to what was measured over at Rtings: https://www.rtings.com/headphones/reviews/b-o-play/beoplay-e8
> 
> Now I'm seriously wondering if B&O had a bad run of units or perhaps they improved the design or firmware in the past few months. I remember being quite let down, particularly when considering the price premium over the 65t I still have, which I think are "just ok" in terms of SQ.



 I clearly have had a very different experience from @SomeGuyDude and others here.  Some of that possibly due to source, the App software, or even tips.  

But not all of it - so at this point I am leaning toward thinking there's a lot of variation in the units since at least two of us have had wildly different experiences on two different sets.  My first (late 2017) and second (bought about a month ago) are miles apart in SQ - the latter being much better.  @hifi80sman had a similar experience.  I don't think it's as simple as the early sets were wonkier either - some folks on here love their early ones.  It's just kind of a crap shoot.


----------



## nc8000

Rickyearl said:


> I clearly have had a very different experience from @SomeGuyDude and others here.  Some of that possibly due to source, the App software, or even tips.
> 
> But not all of it - so at this point I am leaning toward thinking there's a lot of variation in the units since at least two of us have had wildly different experiences on two different sets.  My first (late 2017) and second (bought about a month ago) are miles apart in SQ - the latter being much better.  @hifi80sman had a similar experience.  I don't think it's as simple as the early sets were wonkier either - some folks on here love their early ones.  It's just kind of a crap shoot.



Yes it’s wierd and not at all like B&O


----------



## hifi80sman

Rickyearl said:


> I clearly have had a very different experience from @SomeGuyDude and others here.  Some of that possibly due to source, the App software, or even tips.
> 
> But not all of it - so at this point I am leaning toward thinking there's a lot of variation in the units since at least two of us have had wildly different experiences on two different sets.  My first (late 2017) and second (bought about a month ago) are miles apart in SQ - the latter being much better.  @hifi80sman had a similar experience.  I don't think it's as simple as the early sets were wonkier either - some folks on here love their early ones.  It's just kind of a crap shoot.


I've also purchased the B&O H8, H9 AND their successors, the H8i & H9i.  I've had several pairs of the H8i & H9i, and ultimately returned for good (done with exchanging for another pair) due to various issues.  The H8i, which does not have touch controls like the H8 and really cheap buttons, I think it was the left ear cup was far looser than the right, meaning it could be removed with little effort.  Also, there were "bubbles" on some of the stickers with the SN, etc.  While it was still usable and sounded good, the overall build quality and attention to detail was not what you'd expect at that price point, especially since it's clear costs were cut from the prior model.

As far as the H9i, some preferred the thicker ear pads of the H9, however, I thought the H9i ear pads were softer and more comfortable.  That's however, where the fun ended for me.  The sound was much different, which appeal to those that enjoy the higher frequency range.  The larger issue, however, was the ANC drastically changed the sound, whereas the sound with the H9 was similar in both modes.  The ANC implementation also experienced feedback when the seal was slightly broken and would emit high-pitched screeching sounds.  This seems to vary from unit to unit in the severity and frequency of occurrence.  Nevertheless, on all 3 units I tried (1 black, 2 natural), the effect was about the same.  The touch controls were also less responsive than the H9.  Overall, I found it to be a downgrade, not just as far as sound, but also in terms of overall build quality an attention to detail.

The E8 are solid, but there was a vast difference from the first unit I purchased compared to the current one.  Based on what's reported in terms of their "business shift", part of that, it seems, is looking for ways to cut costs.  It certainly feels like the H8i (cheap buttons vs. touch controls) and H9i were improved in some areas (stronger ANC) at the expense of others.


----------



## korefuji

put in a return for the senns - they are are good, but not great, and for £270 I want great. I can't justify spending that kinda cash on just good.


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## hifi80sman

korefuji said:


> put in a return for the senns - they are are good, but not great, and for £270 I want great. I can't justify spending that kinda cash on just good.


Appreciate the feedback.  Now I'm not so much of a "dope fiend" in trying to get those bad boys.  What are you going with for your TWE solution?


----------



## korefuji

hifi80sman said:


> Appreciate the feedback.  Now I'm not so much of a "dope fiend" in trying to get those bad boys.  What are you going with for your TWE solution?



I don't have one right now. I returned Jabras 65t Actives/MW07/Bose Soundsport/now Senns. I'll stick with my over-ear BT headphones for now, sony mx2-1000
I just feel the market is immature, and there's no killer device, especially for that £300~ market price


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## SomeGuyDude

I'm almost glad the Senns are getting kinda rough reviews. Makes me happy to keep the e8s.


----------



## clerkpalmer

SomeGuyDude said:


> I'm almost glad the Senns are getting kinda rough reviews. Makes me happy to keep the e8s.



That's funny - I kind of know what you mean.  The comply really improved them to my ears.  I was going to move on but now I'm not so sure.  I have RHA coming tomorrow.  The positive reviews on SQ and confirmation of AAC (despite RHA marketing apparently not knowing this) convinced me to give them a shot. I'm secretly hoping they perform as well as the Senns...


----------



## SomeGuyDude

korefuji said:


> I don't have one right now. I returned Jabras 65t Actives/MW07/Bose Soundsport/now Senns. I'll stick with my over-ear BT headphones for now, sony mx2-1000
> I just feel the market is immature, and there's no killer device, especially for that £300~ market price



IMO the true wireless market is always going to be one about form over function. I don't think a day will come when they're truly "the only headphones you need." I use my VModas most of the time and the UA's at the gym. The e8s are there for when I don't want to have a big honkin' set of over-ears and I suspect that's how TWEs will remain into the infinite horizon.


----------



## nc8000

SomeGuyDude said:


> I'm almost glad the Senns are getting kinda rough reviews. Makes me happy to keep the e8s.



Do you get the random very short left unit drop outs ?
I get on average 5-10 per 1 hour play time and have been since day one though perhaps slightly more on the early fw versions


----------



## SomeGuyDude

clerkpalmer said:


> That's funny - I kind of know what you mean.  The comply really improved them to my ears.  I was going to move on but now I'm not so sure.  I have RHA coming tomorrow.  The positive reviews on SQ and confirmation of AAC (despite RHA marketing apparently not knowing this) convinced me to give them a shot. I'm secretly hoping they perform as well as the Senns...



Looking forward to your impressions! 

aptX might be preferable but honestly AAC is adequate for most use cases. I don't think many of us are using TWE's in quiet environments for critical listening. Any SQ benefits would almost certainly be lost with the din of the world around us.


----------



## nc8000

SomeGuyDude said:


> IMO the true wireless market is always going to be one about form over function. I don't think a day will come when they're truly "the only headphones you need." I use my VModas most of the time and the UA's at the gym. The e8s are there for when I don't want to have a big honkin' set of over-ears and I suspect that's how TWEs will remain into the infinite horizon.



The true wireless for me is exclusively for use when I’m on the move and being rid of the wires is truly addictive to the extent that I could not go back to a wired phone ever again for that use. Given that this is the environment I use them in outright sq is never going to be my primary criteria


----------



## hifi80sman

chinmie said:


> saw this on youtube, a review of the Jlab Jbuds air, and he thinks that it is better sounding than the Sennheiser. it is his personal opinion, but worth to consider



While I was skeptical of this "analysis" and thought it might just be another "hype beast" review, I decided to purchase a pair from my local Best Buy yesterday (they just came in and were still on the truck...took them FOREVER to find them).  Dude, for $49, these things are GREAT!  I returned the Skullcandy Push Wireless, as these slap those around.  Definitely a bass-forward signature, but they are very clean, clear, and articulate (even if a bit unbalanced on the low end).  The bass is not as boomy as it is on the Sony WF-SP700N.  If you like a cleaner but emphasized bass, you'll love these.  VERY impressive for $49.

PROS
-  Although all plastic, a very "solid" plastic and excellent fabrication.  
-  Great sound.  Even better considering they are only $49.
-  BT 5.
-  Getting about 4 hours playtime at 40% on an iPhone running BT 4.2.  I'm sure I'd be over 4 hours if I had a device with BT 5.
-  Comfortable and smaller than the E8.
-  Track & Volume controls.
-  3 built-in EQ settings.  If you don't want as much bass, there is a "balanced" EQ (although bass is still emphasized a bit).  There are also the "signature" EQ (hyped bass and treble) and the "bass boost" EQ (hyped bass & sub-bass).
-  Mic quality is good.  Probably in the upper tier of all the TWEs I've tried.  A little better than the E8, actually.

CONS
-  Pressing the buttons jam them in your ear more.  I have to awkwardly hold the earbuds to use the buttons without pressing them into my ear more.
-  Changing tracks (holding down the R button) can also erroneously increase the volume (a single press of the R button).  The L button is track reverse and volume down.
-  A little slippery to handle.
-  Custom USB-A charging connection built into the charger.
-  Needs firmware update.  Sound is unbalanced, in the sense the L earbud is louder than the R when using the "balanced" or "bass boost" EQs.  Normal "signature" EQ is unaffected.

Overall, since I enjoy the "signature" EQ anyway, these are a keeper, especially for $49.  Perfect gym or office companion.  Isolation is good, so I can see this a nice fit for commuters as well.


----------



## Spamateur

Yeah I want something that i can stash in my pocket and will work with my phone without a damn dongle. I listen to my 2-channel setup exclusively at home, so these are really only for work, travel and gym use.


----------



## korefuji

SomeGuyDude said:


> IMO the true wireless market is always going to be one about form over function. I don't think a day will come when they're truly "the only headphones you need." I use my VModas most of the time and the UA's at the gym. The e8s are there for when I don't want to have a big honkin' set of over-ears and I suspect that's how TWEs will remain into the infinite horizon.



I hear you, however, for £300 of convenience, they're not that great. I wasn't expecting them to be compared to wired headsets, but I expect for £300 better battery life, multipairing and such. For £300 its not a lot to ask for when others manage it for a lot less. Like I said, good but not great, especially at the price.

Too bad those samurai buds wont' hit their target for indiegogo, they will end up released, but perhaps not as well known. Long battery life, bt5 aptx/aac what's not to like for around a $100


----------



## hifi80sman

nc8000 said:


> Do you get the random very short left unit drop outs ?
> I get on average 5-10 per 1 hour play time and have been since day one though perhaps slightly more on the early fw versions


Yes, I do.


----------



## nc8000

korefuji said:


> I hear you, however, for £300 of convenience, they're not that great. I wasn't expecting them to be compared to wired headsets, but I expect for £300 better battery life, multipairing and such. For £300 its not a lot to ask for when others manage it for a lot less. Like I said, good but not great, especially at the price.
> 
> Too bad those samurai buds wont' hit their target for indiegogo, they will end up released, but perhaps not as well known. Long battery life, bt5 aptx/aac what's not to like for around a $100



Try the Havit G1 if you can. At $60 shipped to me they are a steal


----------



## spyrusthegreat

1more just released
https://usa.1more.com/collections/headphones/products/1more-stylish-true-wireless-in-ear-headphones


----------



## clerkpalmer

spyrusthegreat said:


> 1more just released
> https://usa.1more.com/collections/headphones/products/1more-stylish-true-wireless-in-ear-headphones



2.5 hours advertised run time is truly low since we all know it will be even less.  No mention of AAC or Aptx. Not moving the needle for me although I like 1More's stuff.


----------



## korefuji

nc8000 said:


> Try the Havit G1 if you can. At $60 shipped to me they are a steal



I will look into those, but I'm considering the earin m2's, thoug the reviews for it have been mixed from what I've read. But some people here swear by them.

The Havit's have a lot going for them at £60, and I'm not expecting bells and whistles with it, but I'll have to look into more, to see if I Can live with no touch controls


----------



## nc8000

korefuji said:


> I will look into those, but I'm considering the earin m2's, thoug the reviews for it have been mixed from what I've read. But some people here swear by them.
> 
> The Havit's have a lot going for them at £60, and I'm not expecting bells and whistles with it, but I'll have to look into more, to see if I Can live with no touch controls



Yes I do miss the touch controls from the E8 as well as the ambient mode


----------



## korefuji

nc8000 said:


> Yes I do miss the touch controls from the E8 as well as the ambient mode



You've probably already done this, but if you have can you copypasta your pros and cons of the havit g1? Seriously considering them.


----------



## nc8000

korefuji said:


> You've probably already done this, but if you have can you copypasta your pros and cons of the havit g1? Seriously considering them.



This is what I wrote some weeks ago. 

I have now exclusively used the Havit G1 for 2 weeks after having had the Beoplay E8 for over a year since the day they were released. Have not tried any other true wireless iem’s.

Build quality seems to be about a draw although I wont really know how the G1 stand up until having used them for a year. G1 is ipx5 whereas E8 is unrated but described as splash proof.

Battery life on a charge is about equal at roughly 4 hours but the G1 case holds more charges than the E8 case. The G1 case is smaller but more square.

Fit and comfort are fine for me on both but the G1 is probably more secure with vigorous activity due to the finns.

Mic and call quality is about equal and not stellar but good enough for my use. The G1 only does calls in the right ear but E8 in both.

I much prefer the touch control on the E8 to the single button on the G1. Can’t do volume on the G1.

I miss the transparency mode on the G1 that the E8 has.

Isolation is about equal but with the E8 marginally better.

The G1 connection is rock solid, have not had a single drop out in 2 weeks. E8 has random very short left unit drop outs though not enough to really bother me. G1 is bt5, E8 is bt42.

There is no app, eq or fw update for the G1.

The E8 probably has the slightly better SQ but in normal ambient noise environment I don’t really notice any difference. Both are good enough for me out and about.

No noticeable video lag on either.

All this using an iPhone 8 with on board 320kb aac music files, YouTube videos and iTunes movies.

The E8 cost about 4 times as much.


----------



## korefuji

nc8000 said:


> This is what I wrote some weeks ago.
> .



Excellent, and thank you for the paste. So what functions do the buttons offer? Play/Pause? Forward/back?  I don't mind no volume control, I tend to max out anyway as a matter of course. Probably not good for my ears, but that's how i like it


----------



## nc8000

korefuji said:


> Excellent, and thank you for the paste. So what functions do the buttons offer? Play/Pause? Forward/back?  I don't mind no volume control, I tend to max out anyway as a matter of course. Probably not good for my ears, but that's how i like it



Yes play/pause and forward/back and Answer/hang up phone and possibly activate voice assistant (not sure about this as I never use them). The logo on each unit acts as the button and I find it slightly difficult pressing it. I can not go over 60/70% without hurting my ears


----------



## mikp

korefuji said:


> I hear you, however, for £300 of convenience, they're not that great. I wasn't expecting them to be compared to wired headsets, but I expect for £300 better battery life, multipairing and such. For £300 its not a lot to ask for when others manage it for a lot less. Like I said, good but not great, especially at the price.
> 
> Too bad those samurai buds wont' hit their target for indiegogo, they will end up released, but perhaps not as well known. Long battery life, bt5 aptx/aac what's not to like for around a $100


samurai under other name


----------



## korefuji

mikp said:


> samurai under other name


Oh yeah, on the indiegogo it also states Japan Tuned, I though that mean referred to a signature for Japanese people, sounded a bit strange. But ok, thanks for the link, I'm not sure I'll buy direct from Japan, due to custom and excise duties


----------



## mikp

korefuji said:


> Oh yeah, on the indiegogo it also states Japan Tuned, I though that mean referred to a signature for Japanese people, sounded a bit strange. But ok, thanks for the link, I'm not sure I'll buy direct from Japan, due to custom and excise duties


based on these no clue what japan tuned is


----------



## korefuji (Dec 13, 2018)

mikp said:


> based on these no clue what japan tuned is



Shocking. Really. Well I guess I'll go with the Havit g series

EDIT: Just placed the order for the Havit G1, a bit more than the £60 I was expecting, however, they're still half the price of the Jabras by comparison. With 30 day return guarantee, if I don't like them I will return them, but I don't think I will return them, just because they're reasonably affordable for what they offer.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

nc8000 said:


> The true wireless for me is exclusively for use when I’m on the move and being rid of the wires is truly addictive to the extent that I could not go back to a wired phone ever again for that use. Given that this is the environment I use them in outright sq is never going to be my primary criteria



I think the general advertisement for TWE shows this is the pervading attitude. Obviously we all care about SQ here but I mean how many of us have given up on a set of TWE because of how they faltered in another area? The MW07 is a good case study.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

clerkpalmer said:


> 2.5 hours advertised run time is truly low since we all know it will be even less.  No mention of AAC or Aptx. Not moving the needle for me although I like 1More's stuff.



Yeah that's surprisingly bad. 2.5hr at 50% means most of us will be getting less than 2hr, possibly quite a bit less.


----------



## dweaver

SomeGuyDude said:


> Yeah that's surprisingly bad. 2.5hr at 50% means most of us will be getting less than 2hr, possibly quite a bit less.


am I missing something? When I look at the site I see it saying 7.5hrs at 50% volume which is actually really good??


----------



## nc8000

dweaver said:


> am I missing something? When I look at the site I see it saying 7.5hrs at 50% volume which is actually really good??



The 7.5 hours is the total charge in buds plus case


----------



## dweaver

O snap, I get it! That does suck! BADLY...


----------



## SomeGuyDude

Seriously, 7.5hr with the case is awwwwwwwwful. Even the Sony can get you 9 total. This far into the game the idea of not even being able to get through a work shift with fully charging from the case twice is pitiful.


----------



## BobJS (Dec 13, 2018)

Well, I started with the elite active 65t.  Then I got the MW07.  I found the the MW07 to be my default for walking.

In true OCD fashion, I have acquired the Bose Soundsport Free and the N200 (yes, not TW) within the past 2 days.  I had a $50 coupon at Crutchfield I didn't want to expire, so applied that (no shipping or tax) to the $169 Soundsport.

The Bose have a really fun sound with a solid bass foundation.  The highs are slightly rolled off but pretty decent when called for.  These things don't make a seal in your ear and are therefore very comfortable, but also allow in some ambient sound.  If that's OK for your purposes I would recommend these unconditionally.  I can see using these around the house but don't anticipate taking them out and about because of their size and ambient leakage.  Sound great though.  I didn't realize you could get bass like that from what is basically an IEM without a good seal.

The N200 sounded great at first, very neutral with good lows and highs.  The sound is very non-3-dimensional, though it's probably not fair to listen to them with the Bose (very 3 dimensional).

For my own tastes and uses I would rate them :

1. Bose Soundsport Free (if ambient sound OK) or :
2. MW07
3. 65t
4. N200

I think these are all pretty decent and a far cry from the last time I tried (wired) bluetooth several years ago.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

It's worth mentioning that the Free are made as they are because they're designed for sport use. The extra bass and ambient leak are helpful in those conditions.


----------



## Rickyearl

SomeGuyDude said:


> I'm almost glad the Senns are getting kinda rough reviews. Makes me happy to keep the e8s.



Not to tempt you, but I think as a self-confessed basshead, you would love the Senns.  I am certainly not that, but once I got the EQ right they sound far, far better than anything else TW I have tried (Bose, IconX, my E8, etc.).  They lack a lot of polish that the E8 has physically



nc8000 said:


> Do you get the random very short left unit drop outs ?
> I get on average 5-10 per 1 hour play time and have been since day one though perhaps slightly more on the early fw versions



Hey - this is something we have in common on the E8.  I call that "the satellite radio dropout" because it happens on SiriusXM all the time.  Like you hit the mute button on and off quickly, but only on one side.


----------



## Rickyearl

hifi80sman said:


> While I was skeptical of this "analysis" and thought it might just be another "hype beast" review, I decided to purchase a pair from my local Best Buy yesterday (they just came in and were still on the truck...took them FOREVER to find them).  Dude, for $49, these things are GREAT!  I returned the Skullcandy Push Wireless, as these slap those around.  Definitely a bass-forward signature, but they are very clean, clear, and articulate (even if a bit unbalanced on the low end).  The bass is not as boomy as it is on the Sony WF-SP700N.  If you like a cleaner but emphasized bass, you'll love these.  VERY impressive for $49.
> 
> PROS
> -  Although all plastic, a very "solid" plastic and excellent fabrication.
> ...



Do you get lag watching video?  I feel like my Soundcore Liberty Lites are fantastic for the $50 or so I paid, but they are too laggy in videos and unusably laggy on the Switch.  No lag at all on the E8, and the tiniest bit of lag on the Senns.


----------



## kevinscottcaja

chinmie said:


> thank you because I'm also eyeing for the Mifo o5. how is the bass in comparison to the M2? also can it be switch on and off without using the case and pair to the phone? (something that the M2 can't do) because if it can do that i think it can potentially last a day of use even without carrying the case. also does the little buttons hard to push? and does it have ambient mode?


The bass is actually deeper with more emphasis on sub bass, however, if you really want bass I would recommend getting the dynamic driver version. I will assume it will have a much deeper bass than both the M2 and the O5 BA version. Yes you can switch off the earbuds by holding the multifunction button. If they are both connected (master and slave) when you switch off one bud, it will also turn off the other half. The little buttons are not that hard to push but when they are in your ears it kinda hurts a bit. Unfortunately the O5 does not have an ambient mode.



mikp said:


> Good review, I also got the mavin out of curiosity of the chipset and apt-x. Really was waiting for the qualcomm 5 series with anc.
> Im now trying them with foam tips, since the case has no problem with different tips. I think foam makes them sound better as you mentioned, but foam is fiddly with my ears.
> 
> Im enjoying the sound better on the mavin that the 65t, wider soundstage and punchier bass. Just sounds "cleaner".
> ...


Thanks! yeah the Air-X indeed sounds a lot better than 65T, I'm waiting too for QCC5100 series TWS buds to appear in the market. The added ANC function is a sure plus, especially in my daily subway commute.


----------



## chinmie

kevinscottcaja said:


> The bass is actually deeper with more emphasis on sub bass, however, if you really want bass I would recommend getting the dynamic driver version. I will assume it will have a much deeper bass than both the M2 and the O5 BA version. Yes you can switch off the earbuds by holding the multifunction button. If they are both connected (master and slave) when you switch off one bud, it will also turn off the other half. The little buttons are not that hard to push but when they are in your ears it kinda hurts a bit. Unfortunately the O5 does not have an ambient mode.
> 
> 
> Thanks! yeah the Air-X indeed sounds a lot better than 65T, I'm waiting too for QCC5100 series TWS buds to appear in the market. The added ANC function is a sure plus, especially in my daily subway commute.



one last thing, do the Mifo and the Mavin support multiple devices at once like the 65t?


----------



## kevinscottcaja

chinmie said:


> one last thing, do the Mifo and the Mavin support multiple devices at once like the 65t?


The Mifo O5 and Air-X does not support multi device connection at once, you'll have to disconnect from the connected device before you connect to the next.


----------



## dweaver (Dec 13, 2018)

Ok, so my MTW charged up and are playing away in my ears. So let me set the stage a bit. I ordered these online back Nov. 30 and I impatiently waited for them to come in. How impatient you ask? During that time I bought the KEF Space One over ear wired ANC headphone and a couple days ago the AKG N200. Now the reason this important is that the KEF are very balanced sounding and the N200 sound... well they sound like an AKG product. Very mid/treble centric or bright.

So I plug in the MTW and get an immediate blast of bass and warmth. It was a bit of a shock after starting to get used to the N200. To say they are opposites is almost an understatement.

So these are definitely on the bass side of the fence. But as I listen I dont think they are as thick sounding as the WF700N (I mentioned WF1000X above but that's not right and I will fix that post). But will confirm that in a day or so when I have a bit more time. So we are talking a warm bass oriented signature that does remind me a bit of my old IE8's but not nearly as dark sounding (warm not dark). These also have a bit of the IE8 3D/sound stage charm. But since I have not had the IE8 in a long time I will not try to even guess how similar they are in this respect.

As my brain readjusts as I type I am starting to enjoy the signature. I believe this signature will work much better out and about than the N200. I think the MTW will be more isolating but again will know better after I use them on transit.

I left my phone in one room and went to a room where I know signal strength starts to be an issue and these worked as good as several other BT devices I own only being bested by my best full size BT headphones like the MDR 1000XM3. So very happy with BT connectivity. I have one area on my transit route that causes BT dropouts though so will report how they handle that area tomorrow.

The more I listen to these the more I am liking them. I have to he honest. I have always been tempted to rebuy an IE8x product but always stop short because of the $400 price tag so I bought these hoping to give myself some of that sound while getting a good wireless product to boot. The more I listen to these the more I think I may have hit that jackpot.

Still not sure I will keep them as I have to see how long they play on a charge and other factors like BT connectivity. But I am already leaning towards keeping them. Price be damned...

OH, one more thing. Some have mentioned buzzing on these. Now keep in mind I am a 50+ year old man with normal hearing loss for someone my age (pretty much cant hear anything over about 11,000khz) but I hear no buzzing of any kind.


----------



## dweaver

Some ear porn... old west style LOL.


----------



## dweaver

One final post about the MTW. These are big enough my wife could not get them to fit in her ear properly at all. Now she has very unusual ears in my experience so is not the norm but anyone with a really small concha is going to struggle getting this to fit.

Me on the other, these fit like a glove one I switched to the largest tips for my lug holes. Very secure considering these have no wings to hold them in place. I wouldn't do strenuous jerky exercise in them but can see light jogging and power walking in my very near future...


----------



## korefuji

So ordered the havit g1 which I discovered are rebranded hakii hgroov product which was kickstarted/indiegogo no big deal though for the price. Should be here by Monday. Was wondering if the supplied tips are good enough for fit or whether I should get some alt tips. Thanks


----------



## jeffri (Dec 14, 2018)

Finally, my CKR7TW is here.

I'll get into a more detailed sound impression later, but out of the box, the bass is quite anemic.

Good news is that, while many reviews mentioned a lot about delay, that is actually the delay between an action and the earphone responding. For example, when adjusting volume, pressing play, pause, etc. A 0.5s delay is about correct.

But when watching video, there is no audio sync issue. Tested with Youtube, Netflix and Facebook video, there is no noticeable audio delay. This is my biggest concern at first after reading those Japanese reviews, but I guess that's just mistranslation using Google. 

Connection is great, haven't had a dropout yet. Fit is fine, seal is easy and the 3d wing is helping it stay. It is pretty big though, so it will protude a bit from the ear. Will be fine for walking around, but I don't think it'll be good for workout.

Control is by a single button on each side. Left side button double as volume up and down. Right button work as play/pause, next and previous track. It's either single or multiple press to get the intended action. This pattern can be changed with the app.

The app is quite barebone. It shows battery life, codec and volume control. The settings allow us to choose codec (aptX, AAC and SBC) and the button pattern I mentioned before. That's it. No EQ or any sound personalization.




I'll update with sound impression and battery life later.


----------



## nc8000

korefuji said:


> So ordered the havit g1 which I discovered are rebranded hakii hgroov product which was kickstarted/indiegogo no big deal though for the price. Should be here by Monday. Was wondering if the supplied tips are good enough for fit or whether I should get some alt tips. Thanks



So they are. I have so far been using the stock tips but will try something else if I can find a tip with big enough hole, the G1 hole is huge


----------



## korefuji

nc8000 said:


> So they are. I have so far been using the stock tips but will try something else if I can find a tip with big enough hole, the G1 hole is huge



I contact spinfit and they suggested the C100z tips for the havit g1, so I ordered them


----------



## nc8000

korefuji said:


> I contact spinfit and they suggested the C100z tips for the havit g1, so I ordered them



Wonder if the 4 mm diameter is big enough


----------



## korefuji

sorry here's the copypasta



> Thanks for contacting us!
> 
> Our ear tip recommendation for Havit G1 is CP100Z.
> 
> ...


----------



## webvan (Dec 14, 2018)

Yes they will fit but as I mentioned in my feedback on the G1s they didn't work for me because the sound got "blocked", possibly because of the "3D" feature of the SpinFits (CP100 here, M and L). I ended up going back to the fairly flimsy looking stock tips and they work ok.


----------



## korefuji

I've not obv received my havits as I just ordered them, but it's a weight off my mind that I'm not paying for mostly similar performance at £300. At under £100 the Havit are worth a punt


----------



## nc8000

Just ordered the Spinfit for G1, have been using Spinfit on the E8 the last year


----------



## webvan

Well good luck, did you try those you have on your E8s ?


----------



## nc8000

webvan said:


> Well good luck, did you try those you have on your E8s ?



They are only 2 mm diameter so now way to fit them


----------



## webvan

ok, well like I wrote the CP100 don't work well at all even though fitting them is not a problem (they are 3.8mm), maybe the CP100Z (4.0mm) will be better, seems unlikely but why not !


----------



## Rickyearl

dweaver said:


> Ok, so my MTW charged up and are playing away in my ears. So let me set the stage a bit. I ordered these online back Nov. 30 and I impatiently waited for them to come in. How impatient you ask? During that time I bought the KEF Space One over ear wired ANC headphone and a couple days ago the AKG N200. Now the reason this important is that the KEF are very balanced sounding and the N200 sound... well they sound like an AKG product. Very mid/treble centric or bright.
> 
> So I plug in the MTW and get an immediate blast of bass and warmth. It was a bit of a shock after starting to get used to the N200. To say they are opposites is almost an understatement.
> 
> ...



Just for fun, go to the EQ and push it to the right about 1/3 way and up about 1/3 way and see what you think on the sound - the bass loses a bit of that boomy quality and the mid-treble comes forward more.


----------



## dweaver

Rickyearl said:


> Just for fun, go to the EQ and push it to the right about 1/3 way and up about 1/3 way and see what you think on the sound - the bass loses a bit of that boomy quality and the mid-treble comes forward more.


definitely helps take some of the boom of the bass, very nice. Thanks . That EQ is kinda neat in how it works. Let's you play without getting to detailed.


----------



## albau

jeffri said:


> ...the delay between an action and the earphone responding. For example, when adjusting volume, pressing play, pause, etc. A 0.5s delay is about correct.


That would drive me nuts! Still nice writeup, waiting continuation about SQ, connection stability and battery. Thanks.


----------



## albau

korefuji said:


> I contact spinfit and they suggested the C100z tips for the havit g1, so I ordered them


For whatever it's worth, I have CP100Z on my MW07 and love this combo, fits like a glove.


----------



## jeffri

albau said:


> That would drive me nuts! Still nice writeup, waiting continuation about SQ, connection stability and battery. Thanks.



It's not really bothering me tbh, the one time I'll notice it is when I hit play/pause and it doesn't respond immediately. Adjusting volume using the button is too cumbersome, so I just use the phone to do that (and more fine tuning too).


----------



## clerkpalmer

True Connect arrived today.  Unfortunately, they appear to be defective.  The left earbud has significant static and popping that is observed on pause and low volumes.  Guessing they are defective or else there is a serious design flaw.  This is different than the MW07 "hiss" which was really more of a noise floor issue.  This is crackly static.  It's too bad - from what I can tell, these may otherwise sound very good.  Not MW07 or Senn good but better than 65t good.  I also like the fit.  It's a very shallow "airpod" like fit but the eartips still give a good seal.  Contact Audio46 now for an exchange.  I've had so many TW buds fail or not otherwise work properly at a much higher failure rate that normal "tech".  Not sure what's going on with QC or manufacturing these days.  The hiss and static is unbelievable.  Not sure how it passed any QC.  And I'm sure not sending them to England.


----------



## jeffri

Okay, so I take back what I said about the audio sync issue. The CKR7TW do have audio delay when connected to my Windows laptop and my Onkyo Granbeat. It doesn't have issue with Note8 though. Perhaps the Bluetooth 5 helped, or Note8 did some compensation for the audio delay to sync up with the video. I mainly used it for my Note8 though, so I'm fine with it. I'll meet up with my friend this weekend to test with other phones with Bluetooth 5.


----------



## sly_in_the_sky (Dec 14, 2018)

I just bought a pair of Sennheiser TW and I am really imlressed by the sound quality... I also own the Jabra 65T and owned the E8 and I really must say that to my ears, the Senn are really nice...


----------



## hifi80sman

clerkpalmer said:


> 2.5 hours advertised run time is truly low since we all know it will be even less.  No mention of AAC or Aptx. Not moving the needle for me although I like 1More's stuff.


2.5 hours at 50% volume.  1More?  You mean, 1 more charge before my workout is done!

No volume controls.  BT 4.2.

Doesn't look compelling.


----------



## james444

webvan said:


> Yes they will fit but as I mentioned in my feedback on the G1s they didn't work for me because the sound got "blocked", possibly because of the "3D" feature of the SpinFits (CP100 here, M and L). I ended up going back to the fairly flimsy looking stock tips and they work ok.



Sennheiser CX compatible tips work well for me on the Havit G1. For instance, these inexpensive "gel" tips, which are my favorite tips for large bore size IEMs:

https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=sennheiser+cx+gel+tip&_in_kw=1&_ex_kw=&_sacat=0&_udlo=&_udhi=&_ftrt=901&_ftrv=1&_sabdlo=&_sabdhi=&_samilow=&_samihi=&_sargn=-1&saslc=1&_fsradio2=&LH_LocatedIn=1&_salic=3&LH_SubLocation=1&_sop=12&_dmd=1&_ipg=50&_fosrp=1


----------



## dweaver

So got right about 4 hours of use out of my MTW on first charge playing at around around 50% volume. Pretty happy with that as I will rarely have time to listen to music for 4 hours straight.


----------



## hifi80sman

Rickyearl said:


> Do you get lag watching video?  I feel like my Soundcore Liberty Lites are fantastic for the $50 or so I paid, but they are too laggy in videos and unusably laggy on the Switch.  No lag at all on the E8, and the tiniest bit of lag on the Senns.


There's a very slight lag, but 100% watchable via Youtube.  Even though I haven't tried the MTW, based on your description, it sounds like they're probably on par with those.


----------



## webvan

james444 said:


> Sennheiser CX compatible tips work well for me on the Havit G1. For instance, these inexpensive "gel" tips, which are my favorite tips for large bore size IEMs:
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=sennheiser+cx+gel+tip&_in_kw=1&_ex_kw=&_sacat=0&_udlo=&_udhi=&_ftrt=901&_ftrv=1&_sabdlo=&_sabdhi=&_samilow=&_samihi=&_sargn=-1&saslc=1&_fsradio2=&LH_LocatedIn=1&_salic=3&LH_SubLocation=1&_sop=12&_dmd=1&_ipg=50&_fosrp=1



Thanks, would you say they are better than the stock tips ? I quite like them after all in L size, they block noise reasonable well without putting too much pressure and give good bass and clarity. I've found that testing one side with one type of tip and the other side with another one can bring out some pretty big differences you wouldn't necessarily notice after swapping tips on both side. WIth that type of testing I've  been struck at how "muddy" the sound is with Comply foam tips for instance.


----------



## james444

webvan said:


> Thanks, would you say they are better than the stock tips ? I quite like them after all in L size, they block noise reasonable well without putting too much pressure and give good bass and clarity. I've found that testing one side with one type of tip and the other side with another one can bring out some pretty big differences you wouldn't necessarily notice after swapping tips on both side. WIth that type of testing I've  been struck at how "muddy" the sound is with Comply foam tips for instance.



Can't say, since in my case the stock tips don't fit. These tips are made of very soft material and ime comfier than most other silicone tips.


----------



## dweaver (Dec 14, 2018)

So this morning in a real quiet enviornment I noticed a bit of static like noise during Patricia Barber song which was a high resolution FLAC file. Tried the song in a normal listening environment and could not hear it. But will listen to the same song on a couple more BT headphones using the same aptx codec to see if they all have the same issue. Pretty sure my NAD HP70 suffers from the same issue but is even more noticeable due to a spike in that area of the sound range which is why I struggle to like that particular headphone. I also wonder if it's a combination of hires flac and how the APTx is managed either by my phone or the chipset on certain BT devices.

At this point I have only heard the issue on the one song so dont feel like the MTW is a problem or no good. But do think it's worth investigating to see what causes the issue.

Other than the one slight issue I have enjoyed using these today. They do isolate better than the AKG N200. So far Zero dropout issues including the one transit spot that has caused issues with other BT devices.

Need to do a WF700N comparison next week. Can say the battery life is considerably better on the MTW already. But will do some isolation testing and a signature analysis.

Edit: just experienced 2 brief disconnects at a train stop. Very brief less than a second each. Still no worse than most BT devices I own. I cant think of any BT device I own that doesn't have this occasionally. So I would say these are as good as anything I have tried and better than most.


----------



## howdy

Picked up the MW07s today and really liking them so far. Really comfortable! And they get really loud, I can't (or won't) even need to turn them up any further to see how loud they do get.


----------



## dweaver (Dec 15, 2018)

Ok just listened to the same Patricia Barber song with the N200 and the static noise was present so it appears to be a BT artifact.

Also tested the N200 for distance and the MTW was quite a bit more stable in comparison which is impressive since the MTW has to sync 2 seperate ear pieces.


----------



## BigZ12

There has to be something wrong with the MTWs. 

Tested again with multiple sources, and multiple headsets. 

Infected Mushrooms - Avratz (great sound test track) Listen at 8:01 - 8:08 - 08:15 - 08:21 - 08:29.

Other headsets:
SBC: Metallic distortion. You'll hear it like a "prrrrr sound".
AAC/AptX (and wired): Clean as a whistle!

With Sennheiser MTW: 
Distortion in both channels with SBC
The same distortion as SBC only in the left channel with AAC/AptX 
It's like the left channel is SBC codec, when the right is AAC/AptX. *Is that possible?*

Anyways... This has to be a codec issue?
Please: Can anyone else confirm this?!

You need to listen to this with good hearing (no tinnitus  ) at high volume level. (at least 85 of 100 to hear it properly)


----------



## BigZ12




----------



## james444

BigZ12 said:


> It's like the left channel is SBC codec, when the right is AAC/AptX. *Is that possible?*



Theoretically, that's possible. The right earpiece connects to your source via BT AAC/AptX. The left earpiece connects to the right earpiece via NFMI. It's possible that SBC is being used for the NFMI connection.


----------



## BigZ12

james444 said:


> Theoretically, that's possible. The right earpiece connects to your source via BT AAC/AptX. The left earpiece connects to the right earpiece via NFMI. It's possible that SBC is being used for the NFMI connection.


Very interesting! If that's so, it has to be the explanation!
With all the examples I've posted here, there's definately a difference with SBC and AAC/AptX. Why do you think the SBC codec is introducing this noise/distortion to the bass in my example tracks? Compression "noise"?


----------



## james444 (Dec 15, 2018)

BigZ12 said:


>




I ran the Audacity clipping analyzer on this test track, there's no clipping in the audio stream. Which means the test track itself is clean.

Then I listened to it at high volume on my TRN BT20 + JVC IEMs, both via SBC and AAC. My JVCs didn't distort, but SBC sounded noticeably edgier in treble.

I don't own the MTW, but imo it's possible that the treble artifacts of SBC encoding with this track cause distortion in the MTWs.


----------



## BigZ12

james444 said:


> I ran the Audacity clipping analyzer on this test track, there's no clipping in the audio stream. Which means the test track itself is clean.
> 
> Then I listened to it at high volume on my TRN BT20 + JVC IEMs, both via SBC and AAC. My JVCs didn't distort, but SBC sounded noticeably edgier in treble.
> 
> I don't own the MTW, but imo it's possible that the treble artifacts of SBC encoding with this track cause distortion in the MTWs.


Didn't you hear the very noticable difference with the "rolling bass" (like a high pitch metallic revereberation) from 08:00 to 08:30? It's so difficult to explain the difference, but it's like a "prrrr" with a kind of metallic cling/ring. It's completely gone with AAC, and on every headsets with SBC. 
And if you're right regarding SBC with NFMI, then that's why the left is distorted regardless of the AAC/AptX connection to the source?


----------



## chinmie

james444 said:


> Then I listened to it at high volume on my TRN BT20 + JVC IEMs, both via SBC and AAC. My JVCs didn't distort, but SBC sounded noticeably edgier in treble.



yes, i also find treble on SBC "raspier" sounding, while AAC sounded smoothly compressed, and APTX and LDAC treble is more like SBC but more controlled (the SBC is more raw sounding). all tested on the ES100 because it has all that codec. 

interestingly, listening to indie rock, i prefer the SBC than the AAC. nowadays i just think of them as cable change.   each has their own characteristics. but given the option i would go with LDAC or APTX if available , just on the safe side. but really even SBC and AAC are quite good enough


----------



## clerkpalmer

I can’t believe Sennheiser would make a product that has aac aptx on one ear pierce and sbc in the other.  That would be a major fail and seems highly unlikely. They would get clobbered here.


----------



## james444

BigZ12 said:


> Didn't you hear the very noticable difference with the "rolling bass" (like a high pitch metallic revereberation) from 08:00 to 08:30? It's so difficult to explain the difference, but it's like a "prrrr" with a kind of metallic cling/ring. It's completely gone with AAC, and on every headsets with SBC.
> And if you're right regarding SBC with NFMI, then that's why the left is distorted regardless of the AAC/AptX connection to the source?



No, I don't hear any metallic sound with the "rolling bass", just a little bit more edge in treble with SBC. But it's possible that my BT transmission uses higher bitrate SBC than yours, which would explane the difference in SQ.


----------



## BigZ12

clerkpalmer said:


> I can’t believe Sennheiser would make a product that has aac aptx on one ear pierce and sbc in the other.  That would be a major fail and seems highly unlikely. They would get clobbered here.


I hope you are right, but my findings are showing that something like this could be relevant.


----------



## korefuji

Has anyone had the jlab audio earbuds and the havit g1 And compared them?


----------



## BigZ12

james444 said:


> No, I don't hear any metallic sound with the "rolling bass", just a little bit more edge in treble with SBC. But it's possible that my BT transmission uses higher bitrate SBC than yours, which would explane the difference in SQ.


Hmm. I have tested SBC with Apple TV 4, Macbook Pro, and SBC/AAC headsets with Avantree Leaf, CSR4.0 USB dongle. 
Exactly the same sound with every source and headsets (Sony WH-1000MX3, Jaybird X3, Clipper Pro with Soundmagic E11C and RBH Prostereo H2)


----------



## clerkpalmer

BigZ12 said:


> I hope you are right, but my findings are showing that something like this could be relevant.


For a dork like me, this would be an awesome conspiracy if proven correct.


----------



## clerkpalmer

Wouldn’t the near field connection be a complete image of the master?


----------



## james444

Looks like NFMI may indeed be limited to SBC:

https://www.nxp.com/products/wireless/miglo:NFMI-RADIO-SOLUTIONS


----------



## chinmie

james444 said:


> Looks like NFMI may indeed be limited to SBC:
> 
> https://www.nxp.com/products/wireless/miglo:NFMI-RADIO-SOLUTIONS



the Earin M2 use NFMI and supports Aptx and AAC


----------



## clerkpalmer

james444 said:


> Looks like NFMI may indeed be limited to SBC:
> 
> https://www.nxp.com/products/wireless/miglo:NFMI-RADIO-SOLUTIONS


Something can’t be right.  You guys are on to something though.


----------



## korefuji

The conspiracy unraveling


----------



## BigZ12

james444 said:


> Looks like NFMI may indeed be limited to SBC:
> 
> https://www.nxp.com/products/wireless/miglo:NFMI-RADIO-SOLUTIONS


It this is the case with the MTWs, and I actually did hear the difference on left/right with SBC/AAC/AptX, I am a little proud of my hearing and test procedures. 
Cause as I've said "a million times", the left speaker on the MTWs sounds like SBC regardless of codec used from the source.


----------



## korefuji

https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/hyphen-the-gold-standard-of-wireless-earbuds Fully funded mostly similar features to other buds but cheap as hell. What’s the catch?


----------



## clerkpalmer

BigZ12 said:


> It this is the case with the MTWs, and I actually did hear the difference on left/right with SBC/AAC/AptX, I am a little proud of my hearing and test procedures.
> Cause as I've said "a million times", the left speaker on the MTWs sounds like SBC regardless of codec used from the source.


I’m not convinced. If the technology was limited in this wayi feel like we would all know about it.


----------



## james444

chinmie said:


> the Earin M2 use NFMI and supports Aptx and AAC



Yes, they support Aptx and AAC for the bluetooth connection. But they still use NFMI to stream audio between earpieces.

https://www.soundguys.com/earin-m-2-review-18288/


> After just a day of use, it was apparent that these are a standout pair of truly wireless earbuds because of the unfaltering connectivity. Sure, this is in part due to Bluetooth 4.2 technology, but when I interviewed Earin CTO Olle Linden, he shared that the real star is the internal hardware. Each earbud contains an identical chip set which features NFMI MiGLO technology by NXP. Linden shared that a 10MHz induction transfers through the head, rather than around the head like the M-1.


----------



## webvan

Apart from the Senns and EM2s do others use NFMI between the buds?


----------



## nc8000

james444 said:


> Looks like NFMI may indeed be limited to SBC:
> 
> https://www.nxp.com/products/wireless/miglo:NFMI-RADIO-SOLUTIONS



Well at least that chip manufacturer do it that way. Are they to only one or are there others and do we know what chip the various iem manufacturers use ?


----------



## nc8000

webvan said:


> Apart from the Senns and EM2s do others use NFMI between the buds?



Beoplay E8


----------



## james444

BigZ12 said:


> It this is the case with the MTWs, and I actually did hear the difference on left/right with SBC/AAC/AptX, I am a little proud of my hearing and test procedures.
> Cause as I've said "a million times", the left speaker on the MTWs sounds like SBC regardless of codec used from the source.



However, transmission rate of these NFMI chips is stated 596 kbit/s. At such a high bitrate, even SBC should be pretty much transparent and free of audible artifacts.


----------



## chinmie

Jabra Elite Sport apparently also uses NFMI. i don't know about the 65t


----------



## BigZ12

james444 said:


> However, transmission rate of these NFMI chips is stated 596 kbit/s. At such a high bitrate, even SBC should be pretty much transparent and free of audible artifacts.


I believe it isn't... My hearing says so


----------



## clerkpalmer

Presumably the nfmi connection is more stable than a Bt connection which would be why some use it? In any event, I guess using aptx and aac for the source connection would still be better than not. But this is still a remarkable revelation to me and I’m surprised I haven’t heard more about it. It seems like it should be disclosed to consumers.


----------



## Tommy C

korefuji said:


> https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/hyphen-the-gold-standard-of-wireless-earbuds Fully funded mostly similar features to other buds but cheap as hell. What’s the catch?



Don’t believe the hype. Go with a reputable brand that will last and has warranty and support. 
I have a Jabra, use it as a daily driver and when working out and at work. Flawless and great sound and go for $100 nowadays.  
If you just want a toss away TWE go right ahead.


----------



## dweaver (Dec 15, 2018)

Let me test with my MTW and N200 (wired between earpieces) both us APTx. Will be later today as I have a busy schedule. Will try WF700N.


----------



## BigZ12

dweaver said:


> Let me test with my MTW and N200 (wired between earpieces) both us APTx. Will be later today as I have a busy schedule. Will try WF700N.


Looking forward to hear your findings. Please note that you need to turn up the volume to really hear the difference.


----------



## howdy

Do some more listening and comparing of mainly the MW07 vs. the E8s.


----------



## dweaver (Dec 15, 2018)

Ok curiosity made me try this right away. So I fired up that song on my N200 first and there was a definite buzz at the end of those bass notes (N200 is definitely a mid/treble centric IEM), very pronounced. This got me curious. So I hooked up my wired KEF HP70 as did it again, less bass but still definite buzz (headphone is bright and very articulate in that range). So I tried my Nighhawks more bass same buzz but less pronounced (headphone is polite in that sound range). So I fired up the MTW and that buzz is there but not as strong since its warmer than the N200. Finally I tried the WF700N (AAC vs APTx) and the buzz similar in strength to the MTW.

I can say this, all 3 IEM's were more noticeable because all had a huge pop from the bass then that sizzle. While my 2 full size headphone had way less bass slam or pop and then the sizzle so they kinda sounded more coherent in the note as the sizzle felt more natural with the lessened bass slam.

I am going to listen to the N200 and MTW on more time really louder for just one bass beat and see if I hear anything else. Only one note though as I found my ears bothered by the loudness already.

Edit: OK I used MTW, N200, and HP70 all cranked up to almost maximum volume way louder than I would ever listen. All 3 had a pan from left to right during that note. The pan was slightly more noticeable on the MTW but happened on all 3 products. So I think this is not an artifact but the way the song was intended especially since a normal wired headphone exhibits the same general sound.


----------



## james444 (Dec 15, 2018)

BigZ12 said:


> I believe it isn't... My hearing says so



Ok, but do you have any other TWs to corroborate your findings? Couldn't it just be an isolated issue with the MTWs?



clerkpalmer said:


> Presumably the nfmi connection is more stable than a Bt connection which would be why some use it?



Yup, the first gen TWs had horrible dropouts because BT can't reliably stream through your head. Afaik, pretty much all current TWs use NFMI.

Here's a video on the technology, by the company that holds the patents:


----------



## dweaver (Dec 15, 2018)

OK all my testing of Infected mushroom gave me some A/B/C time between the MTW, N200, WF700N.

The MTW and WF700N actually sound quite similar with the MTW having more clarity in the midrange and treble but not by much. The N200 surprised me because it has a tighter bass but it went as deep as the other 2 but has much more air and sizzle up top. If you can handle the added mids and treble presence it is definitely the most revealing and balanced of the 3 products.

So far the added signal strength, better battery life (MTW vs WF700N) and slight clarity boost give the MTW the edge over the WF700N. The only question is whether it makes them worth almost twice as much. Given the closer price comparison of the WF1000X and the MTW the MTW is a slam dunk winner though because it sounds at least as good and is wayyyyyy more stable BT wise.


----------



## BigZ12 (Dec 15, 2018)

dweaver said:


> OK all my testing of Infected mushroom gave me some A/B/C time between the MTW, N200, WF700N.
> 
> The MTW and WF700N actually sound quite similar with the MTW having more clarity in the midrange and treble but not by much. The N200 surprised me because it has a tighter bass but it went as deep as the other 2 but has much more air and sizzle up top. If you can handle the added mids and treble presence it is definitely the most revealing and balanced of the 3 products.
> 
> So far the added signal strength, better battery life (MTW vs WF700N) and slight clarity boost give the MTW the edge over the WF700N. The only question is whether it makes them worth almost twice as much. Given the closer price comparison of the WF1000X and the MTW the MTW is a slam dunk winner though because it sounds at least as good and is wayyyyyy more stable BT wise.


I don't understand. I hear it sooo good with SBC, and on the left with MTWs. It's clean and tight with my other 5!!!!! headsets with AAC/AptX! With so many sources tested as well.
So it can't be my hearing when it's flawless with AAC/Aptx and other headsets!?!

Edit: Embarrassing  Didn't see your previous post. 
So you hear the buzz I talk about with SBC.
Did you hear it with AAC/AptX and a wired headphone? I don't.
Please try the other tracks I PM'd you.
Thanks again.


----------



## clerkpalmer

BigZ12 said:


> I don't understand. I hear it sooo good with SBC, and on the left with MTWs. It's clean and tight with my other 5!!!!! headsets with AAC/AptX! With so many sources tested as well.
> So it can't be my hearing when it's flawless with AAC/Aptx and other headsets!?!


I believe you are hearing differences but I’m struggling with the notion that the MTW are AAC Aptx in only one earbud.  Can’t. Be. So.


----------



## mikp

kevinscottcaja said:


> The Mifo O5 and Air-X does not support multi device connection at once, you'll have to disconnect from the connected device before you connect to the next.



The mavin seem to have issues connecting with Intel® Wireless-AC 8265 + Bluetooth 4.2. connects as hands free and no audio on win 10. Tested on another laptop with win 10 and there they worked.


----------



## james444 (Dec 15, 2018)

clerkpalmer said:


> I believe you are hearing differences but I’m struggling with the notion that the MTW are AAC Aptx in only one earbud.  Can’t. Be. So.



Not only the MTW, but possibly all current TWs that use NFMI. Unless there's some new NFMI chip that supports other codecs in addition to SBC.

Here's a reddit post on the Bragi Dash, same story...
https://www.reddit.com/r/thedash/comments/7xjaom/hardware_refresh_on_the_horizon_watch_the/dudtyz3/

But again, SBC doesn't necessarily sound worse than AAC or aptX, provided the bitrate is high enough.


----------



## clerkpalmer

james444 said:


> Not only the MTW, but possibly all current TWs that use NFMI. Unless there's some new NFMI chip that supports other codecs in addition to SBC.
> 
> Here's a reddit post on the Bragi Dash, same story...
> https://www.reddit.com/r/thedash/comments/7xjaom/hardware_refresh_on_the_horizon_watch_the/dudtyz3/
> ...


Could there be a real benefit to at least getting the stream from the source in aac aptx? Would it also improve the quality of the near field connection? This is truly remarkable if true and seems to be a dirty little secret.


----------



## james444

clerkpalmer said:


> Could there be a real benefit to at least getting the stream from the source in aac aptx? Would it also improve the quality of the near field connection? This is truly remarkable if true and seems to be a dirty little secret.



Yes, of course, since AAC and aptX are more robust and have less artifacts at lower bitrate. Keep in mind that the source connection via BT has to bridge a wider distance and is more prone to interference than the NFMI connection between left and right earpiece. SBC at high bitrates sounds very good, but interference or weak signal strength can make the BT stream drop down to lower bitrate, where AAC and aptX have a clear advantage over SBC.

The NFMI connection, on the other hand, just has to bridge a rather small and invariant distance from ear to ear, so it's much more likely to retain a stable high bitrate with SBC than the BT connection.


----------



## clerkpalmer

Still BS if only one earpierce is aac aptx.  This might explain why no one is going to bother with LDAC or Aptxhd in this space at least until the nfmi tech is improved.


----------



## clerkpalmer

After your discovery all of my tw headsets immediately sounded worse to me...


----------



## eclein

Not sure if you guys know how to fix this problem I’m having but when I connect via Bluetooth to my ipad or android phone so I can stream Spotify, I get stuttering constantly for awhile then it’ll slow down or stop only to come back over and over.
I’ve shut down as many background services as I can, location services, anything that might check in via the internet and then restart on and on.....it helps but it always restarts.....its unlistenable.....is there a workaround that you folks know of??

I only bought the DAP (HIDIZ AP60 PRO) so I could stream Spotify via bluetooth and use a goodDAC chip to convert.....any ideas?


----------



## albau

clerkpalmer said:


> Still BS if only one earpierce is aac aptx.  This might explain why no one is going to bother with LDAC or Aptxhd in this space at least until the nfmi tech is improved.


There're new Qualcomm BT5 chips I believe that allow for two identical and synced streams going to both earbuds from the source. Basically independent connections. So no NFMI needed.


----------



## ebrandon

If it's true that one earbud is always SBC that's a total deal breaker for me.

For anyone who thinks SBC is good enough or that SBC / AAC / APTX / LDAC all sound the same, here is a very interesting set of measurements made by Radstone, the sophisticated electronics manufacturer who makes the well-known ES100 bluetooth receiver.

This is from this post https://www.head-fi.org/threads/radsone-earstudio.867366/page-125#post-14389089


----------



## james444

clerkpalmer said:


> Still BS if only one earpierce is aac aptx.  This might explain why no one is going to bother with LDAC or Aptxhd in this space at least until the nfmi tech is improved.





clerkpalmer said:


> After your discovery all of my tw headsets immediately sounded worse to me...



Let's not overeact and keep to the facts instead. I've linked this before and link it again now, this blind test proves that SBC is pretty much transparent at 372 kbit/s: http://soundexpert.org/encoders-320-kbps
It scores a solid 7.80 rating, significantly above 5.00, the threshold of human sound artifact perception in this test.

Which means, that if NFMI streams SBC at 596 kbit/s, it should be perfectly transparent and not constitute a bottleneck in SQ, regardless of whether AAC, aptX or LDAC is being used for the BT connection.


----------



## clerkpalmer

james444 said:


> Let's not overeact and keep to the facts instead. I've linked this before and link it again now, this blind test proves that SBC is pretty much transparent at 372 kbit/s: http://soundexpert.org/encoders-320-kbps
> It scores a solid 7.80 rating, significantly above 5.00, the threshold of human sound artifact perception in this test.
> 
> Which means, that if NFMI streams SBC at 596 kbit/s, it should be perfectly transparent and not constitute a bottleneck in SQ, regardless of whether AAC, aptX or LDAC is being used for the BT connection.



Except that BigZ identified the issue based purely on what he was hearing. Which is pretty damn impressive.


----------



## clerkpalmer

ebrandon said:


> If it's true that one earbud is always SBC that's a total deal breaker for me.
> 
> For anyone who thinks SBC is good enough or that SBC / AAC / APTX / LDAC all sound the same, here is a very interesting set of measurements made by Radstone, the sophisticated electronics manufacturer who makes the well-known ES100 bluetooth receiver.
> 
> This is from this post https://www.head-fi.org/threads/radsone-earstudio.867366/page-125#post-14389089


Any ideas why AAC performs better on the Note versus iOS?


----------



## BigZ12 (Dec 15, 2018)

http://www.szynalski.com/tone-generator/

WOW, just WOW!!! The tone generator really concludes my findings.
That was amazing! I can already say that I never will buy a BT headset with only SBC again

Source: Macbook Pro with AAC/AptX/SBC, using Bluetooth Explorer
(did some testing with iPhone X and a CSR 4.0 usb dongle too, with similar findings, but did it more thorough with the Macbook)

Headsets:
Sony WH-1000MX3 (tested SBC, AAC, AptX)
Sennheiser MTW (SBC, AAC, AptX)
Avantree Clipper Pro w/Soundmagic E11C (SBC, AAC (ref specs, it doesn't support AAC, but my Mac recognized it with AAC, AptX)
Jaybird X3 (SBC, AAC - no AptX support)
BeatsX (SBC, AAC - no AptX support)
RBH Prostereo H2 (SBC, AptX - no AAC support)

ALL headsets gives a really annoying high pitch/frequency noise with bass from 20-150hz with SBC! Quite simiilar to what I hear with the tracks I posted before.

All headsets (except the MTWs) do NOT present the high pitch noise from 20-150hz with AAC and/or AptX

*The MTWs have the same annoying high pitch noise ON THE LEFT with 20-150hz with AAC and/or AptX*

(Sidenote, all but the BeatsX was free of other noise, but the BeatsX had continously some "scratching/crackle" noise on low frequencies)


----------



## SomeGuyDude

james444 said:


> Not only the MTW, but possibly all current TWs that use NFMI. Unless there's some new NFMI chip that supports other codecs in addition to SBC.
> 
> Here's a reddit post on the Bragi Dash, same story...
> https://www.reddit.com/r/thedash/comments/7xjaom/hardware_refresh_on_the_horizon_watch_the/dudtyz3/
> ...



There is a zero percent chance all of these companies have been making TWEs and having the one earbud only going in SBC LMAO are you guys for real.


----------



## BigZ12

BigZ12 said:


> http://www.szynalski.com/tone-generator/
> 
> WOW, just WOW!!! The tone generator really concludes my findings.
> That was amazing! I can already say that I never will buy a BT headset with only SBC again
> ...



I have to mention that I'm on my second set of MTWs, and got exactly the same "flaw" on both of them.


----------



## james444

BigZ12 said:


> http://www.szynalski.com/tone-generator/
> 
> WOW, just WOW!!! The tone generator really concludes my findings.
> That was amazing! I can already say that I never will buy a BT headset with only SBC again
> ...




Just performed the tone generator test with my TRN BT20 earhooks + JVC IEMs.

I can hear the high pitch noise clearly in both earpieces with SBC
I cannot hear the high pitch noise in any earpiece with AAC


----------



## BigZ12

james444 said:


> Just performed the tone generator test with my TRN BT20 earhooks + JVC IEMs.
> 
> I can hear the high pitch noise clearly in both earpieces with SBC
> I cannot hear the high pitch noise in any earpiece with AAC


Thank you!


----------



## james444

BigZ12 said:


> Thank you!



Well, but that means that either the TRN BT20 doesn't use NFMI between the earpieces at all, or that SBC via NFMI is _not_ the culprit.


----------



## BigZ12 (Dec 15, 2018)

james444 said:


> Just performed the tone generator test with my TRN BT20 earhooks + JVC IEMs.
> 
> I can hear the high pitch noise clearly in both earpieces with SBC
> I cannot hear the high pitch noise in any earpiece with AAC


Sooo... why have both the MTWs I've got the same high pitch noise on the left with AAC?!?! NFMI - SBC?
Edit  I wrote that just after you posted your last post.


----------



## james444

BigZ12 said:


> Sooo... why have both the MTWs I've got the same high pitch noise on the left with AAC?!?! NFMI - SBC?
> Edit  I wrote that just after you posted your last post.



I think we'll need more test results from different TWs that support AAC or aptX to come to a reliable conclusion.


----------



## BigZ12

james444 said:


> Well, but that means that either the TRN BT20 doesn't use NFMI between the earpieces at all, or that SBC via NFMI is _not_ the culprit.


I thanked mostly because you heared the high pitch noise with SBC... And of course that it was clean with AAC.
I thought I was going crazy when no one in here could tell me they heared the similar noise on the 3-4 tracks I've posted earlier.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

A lot of this is ridiculously anecdotal dudes. Unless you've got straight-up electronic information or schematics, just going "well I hear a noise so it must be in SBC" is ridiculous. 

Come on, do any of you seriously think Bose, Sony, Sennheiser, AKG, Audio-Technica, Master & Dynamic, and Bang & Olufsen would _all _be making true wireless with HQ codecs that only goes to one ear??


----------



## james444

BigZ12 said:


> I thanked mostly because you heared the high pitch noise with SBC... And of course that it was clean with AAC.
> I thought I was going crazy when no one in here could tell me they heared the similar noise on the 3-4 tracks I've posted earlier.



Yes, but according to your theory, my TRN BT20 should exhibit the high pitch noise at the left side with AAC. Which it just doesn't, I'm afraid. It sounds clean at both sides.

And to make things worse... I just tried the Havit G1, which is SBC only. And that one is noisy at the right side, but not on the left. Go figure!


----------



## BigZ12

SomeGuyDude said:


> A lot of this is ridiculously anecdotal dudes. Unless you've got straight-up electronic information or schematics, just going "well I hear a noise so it must be in SBC" is ridiculous.
> 
> Come on, do any of you seriously think Bose, Sony, Sennheiser, AKG, Audio-Technica, Master & Dynamic, and Bang & Olufsen would _all _be making true wireless with HQ codecs that only goes to one ear??


I don't say it's SBC on one earpiece on TWs.
I only say that SBC introduce this high pitch noise on these bass frequencies, while with AAC/AptX it's clean.
So don't you think it's interesting to discuss why the two MTWs I've got have this "SBC sounding" noise in the left channel with AAC/AptX?
No one has concluded that it's SBC per se, but if NFMI uses SBC... don't you think it's a possibility?


----------



## clerkpalmer

We have established that nfmi is sbc only. That’s a face based on what I’ve seen so far today. We also know that MTW uses nfmi. So I’m starting to be convinced. We need you guys to test anothe nfmi tw headset to confirm and compare to something like the Sony sp700n. 

Also does bt20 support aac? I thought it was sbc only. Mine sounds like crap regardless.


----------



## BigZ12 (Dec 15, 2018)

james444 said:


> Yes, but according to your theory, my TRN BT20 should exhibit the high pitch noise at the left side with AAC. Which it just doesn't, I'm afraid. It sounds clean at both sides.
> 
> And to make things worse... I just tried the Havit G1, which is SBC only. And that one is noisy at the right side, but not on the left. Go figure!


I guess the TRN BT20 has got a different transfer codec/protocol between R to L /L to R than my MTWs then? (I'm Norwegian, not a very skilled tech guy so it's sometimes difficult to explain in english  But you get what I mean, I hope )
Very strange with the Havit G1... None of my headset got the noise in just one earpiece with SBC


----------



## clerkpalmer

james444 said:


> Yes, but according to your theory, my TRN BT20 should exhibit the high pitch noise at the left side with AAC. Which it just doesn't, I'm afraid. It sounds clean at both sides.
> 
> And to make things worse... I just tried the Havit G1, which is SBC only. And that one is noisy at the right side, but not on the left. Go figure!



I don’t think trn bt20 uses nfmi. I say this because both headsets show up in my bt list independently.


----------



## clerkpalmer

someguydude, I was waiting for you to join the fray. It’s not all TW but there is chance it’s all TW that use nfmi as the source of connection from master to slave. Not all TW use this method.


----------



## james444

clerkpalmer said:


> I don’t think trn bt20 uses nfmi. I say this because both headsets show up in my bt list independently.



Yes, but only one actually connects via BT to your source. It's the same as for the Earin M-2.


----------



## clerkpalmer

james444 said:


> Yes, but only one actually connects via BT to your source. It's the same as for the Earin M-2.


Maybe but I’d still be surprised if the cheapie bt20 uses nfmi. Certainly could be wrong.


----------



## james444

SomeGuyDude said:


> A lot of this is ridiculously anecdotal dudes. Unless you've got straight-up electronic information or schematics, just going "well I hear a noise so it must be in SBC" is ridiculous.
> 
> Come on, do any of you seriously think Bose, Sony, Sennheiser, AKG, Audio-Technica, Master & Dynamic, and Bang & Olufsen would _all _be making true wireless with HQ codecs that only goes to one ear??





BigZ12 said:


> I don't say it's SBC on one earpiece on TWs.
> I only say that SBC introduce this high pitch noise on these bass frequencies, while with AAC/AptX it's clean.
> So don't you think it's interesting to discuss why the two MTWs I've got have this "SBC sounding" noise in the left channel with AAC/AptX?
> No one has concluded that it's SBC per se, but if NFMI uses SBC... don't you think it's a possibility?



Well, here's a picture of the NFMI chip in the MTW:








And here's a link to the documentation that states SBC for the NXH2261:
https://www.nxp.com/docs/en/brochure/MIGLOTECHFS.pdf

There's a slim chance that NXH2261A might be different from NXH2261, but I doubt it.


----------



## BigZ12

I only wish I used the tone generator before, so it would be easier to explain. 
Bombing you with Kari Bremnes and other strange sound clips 
But, I guess I have introduced some interesting findings just using my 49 years old ears


----------



## BigZ12

james444 said:


> Well, here's a picture of the NFMI chip in the MTW:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That's a brilliant find! I guess you solved it!?!


----------



## james444

BigZ12 said:


> I only wish I used the tone generator before, so it would be easier to explain.
> Bombing you with Kari Bremnes and other strange sound clips
> But, I guess I have introduced some interesting findings just using my 49 years old ears



No problem at all. I like Kari Bremnes, even though I don't understand a word of what she's singing about. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




Interesting findings indeed, congrats on your well-preserved ears!


----------



## BigZ12

james444 said:


> No problem at all. I like Kari Bremnes, even though I don't understand a word of what she's singing about.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Good "old" Kari have got some beautiful songs with great lyrics (sorry you can't appreciate them), and her recordings have got some of the best sound quality I've heard!


----------



## korefuji

I’m confused about this guys. I thought we were all aware that nfmi was used with the current range of twes, what’s the revelation exactly? And have we discovered categorically that sbc is used exclusively in one ear bud for nfmi twes which are in nearly all twes right this moment.

Nfmi requires one master one slave bud which is why the battery drains more one than the other right?

So the only thing I’ve understood about this conversation is that future twes are considering Qualcomm chips which provide both twes as master and doesn’t require nfmi to bridge the twes across the head as they both connect to the source. Increasing battery life and improving sound and proximity.

Still I’m not sure what’s been discovered? Is this s revelation for everyone here? Or am I missing something?


----------



## SomeGuyDude

I would be absolutely _stunned_ if this was true. It would be a comically egregious example of a company dropping the ball in designing it. Are you all thinking the companies just weren't aware? That it was cheap and they hoped no one noticed? Why would aptx/AAC be included if only one earbud used it?


----------



## clerkpalmer

korefuji said:


> I’m confused about this guys. I thought we were all aware that nfmi was used with the current range of twes, what’s the revelation exactly? And have we discovered categorically that sbc is used exclusively in one ear bud for nfmi twes which are in nearly all twes right this moment.
> 
> Nfmi requires one master one slave bud which is why the battery drains more one than the other right?
> 
> ...



The revelation (at least to me) is that nfmi limits the connection from master to slave to sbc only and someone on here was able to notice the difference in sq. So basically even a aptx enabled tw with nfmi is really only 50 percent aptx.


----------



## clerkpalmer

SomeGuyDude said:


> I would be absolutely _stunned_ if this was true. It would be a comically egregious example of a company dropping the ball in designing it. Are you all thinking the companies just weren't aware? That it was cheap and they hoped no one noticed? Why would aptx/AAC be included if only one earbud used it?


In theory using aptx aac from source to master would still improve things overall particularly if the quality of the sbc connection to the slave is better eg higher bit rate than a typical sbc connection.  As discussed above (lots of posts today) the nfmi chip used in tw transmits sbc at very high bitrates. Much higher than the typical sbc source connection used in standard bt headsets.


----------



## nc8000

james444 said:


> Yes, but according to your theory, my TRN BT20 should exhibit the high pitch noise at the left side with AAC. Which it just doesn't, I'm afraid. It sounds clean at both sides.
> 
> And to make things worse... I just tried the Havit G1, which is SBC only. And that one is noisy at the right side, but not on the left. Go figure!



The G1 does aac and does not use nfmi


----------



## clerkpalmer

Based on the tech specs for the nfmi chip being used by Sennheiser it’s no secret at all.


----------



## james444

clerkpalmer said:


> Maybe but I’d still be surprised if the cheapie bt20 uses nfmi. Certainly could be wrong.



Well, I'm not sure about the BT20 either, but the Havit G1 cost me 40 euros and definitely uses NFMI.


----------



## korefuji

What make me curious is if flagship models like AirPods iconx also have this “issue”


----------



## clerkpalmer

Ha ha. Which is it guys? Does the g1 use nfmi or no?


----------



## james444

nc8000 said:


> The G1 does aac and does not use nfmi





clerkpalmer said:


> Ha ha. Which is it guys? Does the g1 use nfmi or no?



Imho you can't get that type of rock-solid ear-to-ear connection without NFMI.


----------



## clerkpalmer (Dec 15, 2018)

AirPods do not use nfmi according to the inter web tear down

“Finally, while other folks in the wireless-and-tetherless headphone space have solved the audio syncing problem between two independent earpieces using Bluetooth and NFMI, Apple has found a way to do it with only Bluetooth.“

Edit it does not appear sp700n does either.


----------



## nc8000

james444 said:


> Well, I'm not sure about the BT20 either, but the Havit G1 cost me 40 euros and definitely uses NFMI.



The G1 deffinately do not use NFMI, i can leave the buds over a meter apart and the sound still plays fine in both buds where as the sound from the E8 left bud is gone as soon as it is inches away from my head


----------



## korefuji

Can it not be using the nfmi chip for bridging only and sending aac over bt


----------



## james444

nc8000 said:


> The G1 deffinately do not use NFMI, i can leave the buds over a meter apart and the sound still plays fine in both buds where as the sound from the E8 left bud is gone as soon as it is inches away from my head



Ok then, I stand corrected. Based on my prior experience with TWs and on Earin's decision to switch to NFMI instead of BT for their second TW, I wouldn't have thought it possible. These are the ex-Ericsson guys that invented BT after all...


----------



## nc8000

james444 said:


> Ok then, I stand corrected. Based on my prior experience with TWs and on Earin's decision to switch to NFMI instead of BT for their second TW, I wouldn't have thought it possible. These are the ex-Ericsson guys that invented BT after all...



B&O described that they use nfmi as it should not suffer from possible rf interference but they still have frequent very short left unit drop outs where as I have yet to have even one drop out on the G1 after 3-4 weeks of heavy use


----------



## james444

nc8000 said:


> B&O described that they use nfmi as it should not suffer from possible rf interference but they still have frequent very short left unit drop outs where as I have yet to have even one drop out on the G1 after 3-4 weeks of heavy use



Would be interested in how they solved it with BT, because BT reportedly can't traverse the head. Early BT-only TWs like the Earin M1 worked well indoors (due to reflection off the walls), but became unusable outdoors.


----------



## korefuji

I guess the w1 in the AirPods is the equivalent of apples nfmi


----------



## howdy

1st day of use with the MW07 and yes the 1st use I got 2 hours and 21 minutes of use (which is fine with me) but these sound absolutely fantastic! Love the sound, these will definitely stay with me. Im using Spin fit tips and the large wings and they stay snug in the ear.

I'm still a bit curious about Senns which I may still get but will wait to see a few more wrinkles get ironed out first.


----------



## clerkpalmer

howdy said:


> 1st day of use with the MW07 and yes the 1st use I got 2 hours and 21 minutes of use (which is fine with me) but these sound absolutely fantastic! Love the sound, these will definitely stay with me. Im using Spin fit tips and the large wings and they stay snug in the ear.
> 
> I'm still a bit curious about Senns which I may still get but will wait to see a few more wrinkles get ironed out first.



Nice. The senns dont sounds as good. If you can live with the wretched battery stick with the mw07 if sq is your priority.


----------



## korefuji (Dec 15, 2018)

So guys I did purchase the havit g1 but then I discovered the befree5 and befree8 from optima/nuforce and can’t decide between the three. Help! They’re all around the same price

Well I grabbed the nuforce befree8 and will probably return the havit. Slightly more expensive than the havit but the nuforce supports aac and aptx ll


----------



## jant71

^ I can see you returning the old BT4.1 Optima cause I was reading on Amazon about connection issue after connection issue. Some fit issues and they don't control volume??


----------



## korefuji

jant71 said:


> ^ I can see you returning the old BT4.1 Optima cause I was reading on Amazon about connection issue after connection issue. Some fit issues and they don't control volume??



I wish there was a really good twe, with about 6-7 hours battery life without additional charge, bt5, and usbc. Not right now it seems.


----------



## jeffri

Tested CKR7TW with a sine wave on the 60hz. The SBC codec inhibit this high pitched noise, but aptX codec is clean on both side. It probably don't use NFME as I can separate both side to about 1 meter and the earpiece that on my ear still play the sound. Well, perhaps that's why it had this audio delay issue.


----------



## clerkpalmer

jeffri said:


> Tested CKR7TW with a sine wave on the 60hz. The SBC codec inhibit this high pitched noise, but aptX codec is clean on both side. It probably don't use NFME as I can separate both side to about 1 meter and the earpiece that on my ear still play the sound. Well, perhaps that's why it had this audio delay issue.



so how do they sound?


----------



## dweaver

Been trying to produce the sounds being bantered about regarding SBC and APTx etc. But my ears must be to old as I can not hear this sound.

Lucky for me as I just get to enjoy the music.

Listening to Bruce Spingsteen Thunder Road and switched back and forth from the MTW, WF700N, and N200.

The MTW is actually slightly warmer than the WF700N but manages to convey more of his rasp and musical detail. The N200 is the most neutral but loses some of the urgency in the music and feels a bit to high pitched. So MTW wins this round followed by WF700N and then N200.


----------



## nc8000

jeffri said:


> Tested CKR7TW with a sine wave on the 60hz. The SBC codec inhibit this high pitched noise, but aptX codec is clean on both side. It probably don't use NFME as I can separate both side to about 1 meter and the earpiece that on my ear still play the sound. Well, perhaps that's why it had this audio delay issue.



The G1 that is not using nfmi has no audio delay when playing videos


----------



## jeffri

clerkpalmer said:


> so how do they sound?



A bit brighter sounding than I liked to. I'll gather my thoughts for this a bit later.



nc8000 said:


> The G1 that is not using nfmi has no audio delay when playing videos



I guess the CKR7TW have added latency due to the use of dedicated DAC. My Note8 also seems to compensate the delay, so watching video is fine here. Not the case when I connected to my Windows 10 laptop though.


----------



## james444

nc8000 said:


> The G1 does aac and does not use nfmi



Ok, now that we've clarified the NFMI part, I'm wondering why I can't get my G1 to switch to AAC with my LG V30.

With my TRN BT20, that supports both SBC and AAC, I can simply switch the codec in developer options. With the G1, it reverts to SBC when I try to switch to AAC.


----------



## korefuji

For those that have tried both jlab audio air and havit g1 which is your preference?


----------



## AnakChan

jeffri said:


> A bit brighter sounding than I liked to. I'll gather my thoughts for this a bit later.
> 
> I guess the CKR7TW have added latency due to the use of dedicated DAC. My Note8 also seems to compensate the delay, so watching video is fine here. Not the case when I connected to my Windows 10 laptop though.



Listening to the ATH-CKR7TW (Grey) and agreed that it’s a little mids to treble prominent than expected. Also it holds in only via the stem & tips. It’ll definitely fall out during gym workouts.

More and more I’m liking the M&D MW07 in terms of sound and fit.


----------



## nc8000

james444 said:


> Ok, now that we've clarified the NFMI part, I'm wondering why I can't get my G1 to switch to AAC with my LG V30.
> 
> With my TRN BT20, that supports both SBC and AAC, I can simply switch the codec in developer options. With the G1, it reverts to SBC when I try to switch to AAC.



Well I don’t know if the G1 is using aac, I only use them with an iPhone and don’t have a Mac so can’t see what what codec is actually used but it states that they support aac on the Banggood site where I bought them and I don’t get the artifacts described earlier when trying the tone generator so I assume I’m on aac


----------



## nc8000

jeffri said:


> A bit brighter sounding than I liked to. I'll gather my thoughts for this a bit later.
> 
> 
> 
> I guess the CKR7TW have added latency due to the use of dedicated DAC. My Note8 also seems to compensate the delay, so watching video is fine here. Not the case when I connected to my Windows 10 laptop though.



I’ve only tried on iPhone but don’t have any sync issue with local videos, iTunes stor videos or YouTube videos


----------



## chinmie

now following this whole codec stuff, i did experiments with my TWS: Earin M2, Jabra 65t, Sony WF-1000X, and Sabbat X12. 

using the tone generator set to 20hz, i switched between SBC and AAC on all of them (with the exception of the M2 that can go to APTX) 

http://www.szynalski.com/tone-generator/

here are my findings:

Sabbat and WF1000X:
i can hear digital squeal/noise that plays along the 20hz tone. the Sabbat displays this squeal more audible/louder than the WF1000X. both have the same conclusion: the digital noise has a higher pitch on SBC, while on AAC it has a lower pitch and volume.

Jabra 65t:
now this one was interesting. on AAC it has similar pitch digital noise like the sabbat and sony, but on SBC, it displays a "revving" digital noise that started on low pitch, then it goes up and then stopped at a constant pitch. 

Earin M2:
on this, i can't find any difference between the SBC, AAC on this particular experiment. it has that digital pitch, but in really low volume compared to the 20hz tone, and lower compares to the other TWS. toggling between AAC and SBC the noise are similar.


----------



## korefuji

Well I’m going back to the jabra elite 65t active - I started with these and ironically end up going back to them as they seem to offer best bang for buck and decent sound. If it ain’t broke I guess...


----------



## jeffri

AnakChan said:


> Listening to the ATH-CKR7TW (Grey) and agreed that it’s a little mids to treble prominent than expected. Also it holds in only via the stem & tips. It’ll definitely fall out during gym workouts.
> 
> More and more I’m liking the M&D MW07 in terms of sound and fit.



The 3d wing do help with keeping it secure though, but I agree that I won't use it for workout either. It never fall off on me even for over 4 hours continuous usage, but I also don't feel it gripping securely to my ear.


----------



## AnakChan

jeffri said:


> The 3d wing do help with keeping it secure though, but I agree that I won't use it for workout either. It never fall off on me even for over 4 hours continuous usage, but I also don't feel it gripping securely to my ear.


The 3D wing of the MW07 made it the most snug fitting. I’d probably use the MW07 in the gym if I had it. But the short battery life, & BT 4.2 are somewhat of a show stopper for me. I still get cut outs with my 65t!!

P.S. took a shower with my 65t yesterday. Survived...


----------



## james444

nc8000 said:


> Well I don’t know if the G1 is using aac, I only use them with an iPhone and don’t have a Mac so can’t see what what codec is actually used but it states that they support aac on the Banggood site where I bought them and I don’t get the artifacts described earlier when trying the tone generator so I assume I’m on aac



Well I hear the high pitched noise only faintly in the right earpiece on the G1. And only for very low frequencies like 30Hz or so, using the tone generator.

No artifacts on the left side, and right side noise gradually fades out once I go up in frequency to 80Hz or higher. Quite mysterious behavior on the G1.


----------



## chinmie

AnakChan said:


> took a shower with my 65t yesterday. Survived...



that's a brave test 
i only tested it once putting them on my hand under the shower water.


----------



## nc8000

james444 said:


> Well I hear the high pitched noise only faintly in the right earpiece on the G1. And only for very low frequencies like 30Hz or so, using the tone generator.
> 
> No artifacts on the left side, and right side noise gradually fades out once I go up in frequency to 80Hz or higher. Quite mysterious behavior on the G1.



Might just be that I can’t hear the artifacts then, I have a known dip in my hearing somewhere up around 6-9 khz if that is where the artifacts arr


----------



## jeffri

AnakChan said:


> The 3D wing of the MW07 made it the most snug fitting. I’d probably use the MW07 in the gym if I had it. But the short battery life, & BT 4.2 are somewhat of a show stopper for me. I still get cut outs with my 65t!!
> 
> P.S. took a shower with my 65t yesterday. Survived...



Man, I'd love to try the MW07. I'm buying the CKR7TW in the hope that it became the last one I buy for TWE (at least until new tech comes), but now I feel either MTW and MW07 is more to my preference.

Did you manage to try the ATH sibling, SPORT7TW?


----------



## james444

nc8000 said:


> Might just be that I can’t hear the artifacts then, I have a known dip in my hearing somewhere up around 6-9 khz if that is where the artifacts arr



I'd guess it's rather around 2-3kHz. But I have to push up the volume to 80% to hear it. Much louder than I usually listen to the G1, so it's irrelevant for actual music listening.


----------



## james444

chinmie said:


> now following this whole codec stuff, i did experiments with my TWS: Earin M2, Jabra 65t, Sony WF-1000X, and Sabbat X12.
> 
> using the tone generator set to 20hz, i switched between SBC and AAC on all of them (with the exception of the M2 that can go to APTX)
> 
> ...



Did you also hear one-sided artifacts, or always the same noise on both channels?


----------



## AnakChan

jeffri said:


> Man, I'd love to try the MW07. I'm buying the CKR7TW in the hope that it became the last one I buy for TWE (at least until new tech comes), but now I feel either MTW and MW07 is more to my preference.
> 
> Did you manage to try the ATH sibling, SPORT7TW?


Nah, I should have but Ididn’t try the SPORT7TW.


----------



## chinmie

james444 said:


> Did you also hear one-sided artifacts, or always the same noise on both channels?



there's an artifact that is more prominent on one side on the Jabra (left side) and the Earin. but that artifact is the same between AAC and SBC on both of them. 

when toggling between AAC and SBC only the noise that present on both channels that changed

sabbat and sony have the same noise on both channel


----------



## BigZ12

chinmie said:


> there's an artifact that is more prominent on one side on the Jabra (left side) and the Earin. but that artifact is the same between AAC and SBC on both of them.
> 
> when toggling between AAC and SBC only the noise that present on both channels that changed
> 
> sabbat and sony have the same noise on both channel


So on Jabra and Earin you have noise in both channels with SBC, and more prominent on the left side with AAC? (Just like my MTWs)
Edit: Or not quite the same, cause I don't have noise on the right at all with AAC.


----------



## chinmie

BigZ12 said:


> So on Jabra and Earin you have noise in both channels with SBC, and more prominent on the left side with AAC? (Just like my MTWs)
> Edit: Or not quite the same, cause I don't have noise on the right at all with AAC.



the jabra and earin both have a digital noise on both channels that would change characteristics a bit when changing codec (on the jabra. the earin strangely stays the same sound between codec)

both the jabra and earin also have an extra artifact noise that is more prominent on one side. this noise stays the same when switching between codec. 

so to summarize there's two different noise


----------



## BigZ12 (Dec 16, 2018)

www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=39&v=2ZrWHtvSog4
What did we conclude with the crackle from about 38-40 seconds in this video?
Crackle on the right only with the MTWs, and clean as a whistle on all my other BT headsets.
The same crackle with Røyksopp - Running in the sea, Disturbed - Sound of silence, Robbie Robertson - Fallen angel for example.

One of you mentioned the same crackle on the B&O E8.

I'm writing a mail to Sennheiser support as we speak.


----------



## mikp

well, I did the freq  20hz thing on the mavin, sbc a high tone all the time, on apt-x and aac no tone.


----------



## caprimulgus (Dec 16, 2018)

Hey, just catching up on this whole NFMI thing with the MTW.

Could you not test whether it’s SBC by latency against AptX-LL? AptX-LL has a latency of <40ms, while latency over SBC is much higher (I’ve read 100-150ms and even 200ms).

If NFMI uses SBC, surely that earpiece would be out of sync with the master when it is receiving AptX-LL? (And if they have delayed the master to adjust for it, then the sound lag will be noticeable when watching a video.)

Unless they have invented a way of transferring using SBC without the lag

*Edit: Scratch that - just looked it up, and apparently NFMI is completely different from Bluetooth, and has an ear to ear latency of <5ms. 100-200ms is the latency for SBC over bluetooth, not SBC over NFMI. So latency should not be noticeable either way. Ignore me, carry on!*


----------



## Tommy C

korefuji said:


> Well I’m going back to the jabra elite 65t active - I started with these and ironically end up going back to them as they seem to offer best bang for buck and decent sound. If it ain’t broke I guess...



Same here just with the Jabra Elite Sport. Tried other brands with too many issues that bothered me. 
The Elite Sport sound fantastic with iPhone X, much better than my old phone that was iPhone 6s.   They are super reliable with rock solid connection and I can easily get 5.5 hrs before they go dead on my during the day. 
I may try the 65t/ Active since their price dropped.


----------



## korefuji

Well the delivery guy wouldnt accept my refusal of delivery, so I'll just gift the havit g1 to my friend, it is xmas after all


----------



## jfvny (Dec 16, 2018)

Thanks to the helpful insights on the Havit G1 from this thread!
Had the Havit G1w for a week now, and thought i'd add my thoughts/experiences on it:
- Connection is solid while running; stutters sometimes in crowded areas
- There is a little video/audio lag when watching Youtube on an iPhone 8 (bluetooth 5)
- Tbh I have my doubts on this being bluetooth 5
- Sound is comparable to wired iems in this price range (sony mdr-ex650ap, meze 11), but slightly worse in all categories (bass is muddier, highs are harsher)
- Can't get a tight seal with provided tips; decent but not tight
- All in all, really really impressed at sound quality and overall quality at this price for a TWS


----------



## nc8000

korefuji said:


> Well the delivery guy wouldnt accept my refusal of delivery, so I'll just gift the havit g1 to my friend, it is xmas after all



Why don’t you want it ?


----------



## korefuji

nc8000 said:


> Why don’t you want it ?


 Because I’ve gonr back to the jabras I read documentation on g1 but did not find any reference to aac. So I’m dubious about thatvplus someone had issues using aac recently in the thread.

I don’t need a second pair of ear buds so I’ll gift it to my friend he won’t be expecting it so that’s fine. It’s not a loss. I’ll have to wait for the spinfits tomorrow first so he gets a good deal. 

How much better are the jabras than the havit g1? I read one review that compared the two and it stated that the jabras are another level above the havit and best bang for buck.
Or I could cancel the jabras and keep the havit g1 - tough call


----------



## nc8000

korefuji said:


> Because I’ve gonr back to the jabras I read documentation on g1 but did not find any reference to aac. So I’m dubious about thatvplus someone had issues using aac recently in the thread.
> 
> I don’t need a second pair of ear buds so I’ll gift it to my friend he won’t be expecting it so that’s fine. It’s not a loss. I’ll have to wait for the spinfits tomorrow first so he gets a good deal.
> 
> ...



To me the G1 is almost equal to the E8 with a much more stable connection. Have not tried the Jabra. Aac is stated in the specs at Banggood where I bought them but I have no way of veryfing if it’s true


----------



## korefuji

Thank you for feedback. I could try the g1 and see how I feel about it. Anyone know if comply tips work with the havit g1 and if so which ones?


----------



## webvan

jfvny said:


> Thanks to the helpful insights on the Havit G1 from this thread!
> Had the Havit G1w for a week now, and thought i'd add my thoughts/experiences on it:
> - Connection is solid while running; stutters sometimes in crowded areas
> - There is a little video/audio lag when watching Youtube on an iPhone 8 (bluetooth 5)
> ...



It took me a while to get a good one but it's worth the trouble I think. First I used the M tips and tried to "ram" them in the canal as I do with my Klipsch S4+double-flange, but that took some work and time to get it right and got a bit painful. Then I switched to the L tips and let them sit at the "entrance" of the canal. Easy to do, no pressure on the canal and a really decent seal.


----------



## jfvny

webvan said:


> It took me a while to get a good one but it's worth the trouble I think. First I used the M tips and tried to "ram" them in the canal as I do with my Klipsch S4+double-flange, but that took some work and time to get it right and got a bit painful. Then I switched to the L tips and let them sit at the "entrance" of the canal. Easy to do, no pressure on the canal and a really decent seal.


Ah maybe I'll try that, thanks! I kinda like that it's not that tight tho cos I use it mostly for running


----------



## webvan

It's not bad for running as it's not an "ear canal" seal so you don't get too much of that annoying "thumping" on each foot strike.

Abuot the codec question, there is no AAC or aptX on the Havit G1, I checked with my  Nokia 8 running Android 9/Pie.


----------



## nc8000

webvan said:


> It's not bad for running as it's not an "ear canal" seal so you don't get too much of that annoying "thumping" on each foot strike.
> 
> Abuot the codec question, there is no AAC or aptX on the Havit G1, I checked with my  Nokia 8 running Android 9/Pie.



Interresting. In that case Banggood are lying on their web site where they clearly state aac as a supported codec. Not that it bothers me since the sound is good enough for my use


----------



## webvan

Maybe there's a different version ? Someone found the original crowdfunded version the other day, maybe there would be more details on that page. In any case they sound pretty good to my ears for casual listening


----------



## korefuji (Dec 16, 2018)

webvan said:


> Maybe there's a different version ? Someone found the original crowdfunded version the other day, maybe there would be more details on that page. In any case they sound pretty good to my ears for casual listening



That would be me 

All I found were BT Profiles, no mention of aptx or aac

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1251386375/hgroov-true-wireless-smart-earbuds-for-music-activ
https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/hgroov-the-world-s-first-smart-wireless-charging/x/1744243#/

They're not bad for what they are, but you get what you apy for. Also I read a review that mention no aptx and no aac confirmed, however, they said for the price they didn't expect it


----------



## webvan

Thanks for the links. Regardless of the codec I think they sound fine, not as good as the Sony's but arguably better than the 65Ts.


----------



## james444

webvan said:


> Abuot the codec question, there is no AAC or aptX on the Havit G1, I checked with my  Nokia 8 running Android 9/Pie.





nc8000 said:


> Interresting. In that case Banggood are lying on their web site where they clearly state aac as a supported codec. Not that it bothers me since the sound is good enough for my use





webvan said:


> Regardless of the codec I think they sound fine, not as good as the Sony's but arguably better than the 65Ts.



Thanks for checking the codecs and confirmation that the Havit G1 are SBC only. I concur that they sound fine, regardless of the codec.

And interestingly, they show that SBC isn't necessarily plagued by noise artifacts, because the right side noise I hear at very high volume is likely not codec related. If it were SBC-related, it should be audible on both sides. I'd rather think it may be some kind of interference noise, because the right (master) earpiece houses two BT-connections.


----------



## dweaver

It's been a while since I did a full on review of a product. I think the Momentum True Wireless deserved me to change that...


----------



## howdy

Ever so slightly considering buying another MW07 so that I would not have to worry about the 2.5 hour battery life. Seems like a waste of money but these sound so good. I could be totally content with the MW07 and my CIEMs (and my XM2 when needed).


----------



## firewatersun

Coming up to the end of my cutoff for return with the MTW and really want to trade em in for an MW07. Physical buttons are just nicer IMO..

Seems like SQ is at least on par, and they do look so much better...

Has anyone ever consistently got 3.5 hours out of the MW07s?


----------



## albau

howdy said:


> Ever so slightly considering buying another MW07 so that I would not have to worry about the 2.5 hour battery life. Seems like a waste of money but these sound so good. I could be totally content with the MW07 and my CIEMs (and my XM2 when needed).


Hear ya! Love how my MW07 sound (and fit) so much that have to tolerate their dismal batter life. Usually I don’t listen continuously to IEMs more than 2.5 hours anyways, but still keep 65t as a backup. Though every time listening to them right after MW07 gets me suprised how much flatter and condensed Jabras sound in comparison.


----------



## dweaver

I wouldn't mind trying the MW07 but I just can't justify another $400 purchase. 

Probably because I got used to touch devices with the MDR1000XM3 and the PCX550 I find the MTW to be OK with their touch interface.

Battery was down to 11% and I threw the MTW in the charge case for 15-20 minutes as I drove to the store. Took them out and I back up to 50%. So the MTW definitely have a fast charge.


----------



## howdy

firewatersun said:


> Coming up to the end of my cutoff for return with the MTW and really want to trade em in for an MW07. Physical buttons are just nicer IMO..
> 
> Seems like SQ is at least on par, and they do look so much better...
> 
> Has anyone ever consistently got 3.5 hours out of the MW07s?


I wonder if anyone even got 3 hours period.


----------



## albau

howdy said:


> I wonder if anyone even got 3 hours period.


Thought in the beginning I maybe got 3 once or twice but then it quickly slipped down to 2.5 at best. And even that gets marred long before by chewing noises it makes to warn you about battery getting sick. How M&D has the chutzpah to advertise MW07 as 3.5 is beyond me! Still SQ for me redeems MW07.


----------



## howdy

albau said:


> Thought in the beginning I maybe got 3 once or twice but then it quickly slipped down to 2.5 at best. And even that gets marred long before by chewing noises it makes to warn you about battery getting sick. How M&D has the chutzpah to advertise MW07 as 3.5 is beyond me! Still SQ for me redeems MW07.


Yeah, they should change it to 2.5 hours. I was going to put the volume and the lowest audible volume and see how much time that will get. When I listen its only about 50% and still 2.5 hours which is fine for me as I knew this going in.


----------



## clerkpalmer

They should return 30 percent of our money ... someone up thread claimed 3.5 on theirs.


----------



## chinmie

the Pamu Scroll finally arrived. initial impressions: it looks nice, the case feels nice to touch, although a bit large compared to my other TWS. 
the stem is a little narrow, so choosing eartips might be a bit limiting. i use an ortofon on mine for the mean time

OTTB it sounds a bit too warm for my taste and also the warmest (and least favorite) sounding for me. not because it is bad, but it's because i like clear and lean mids more. the bass is big, but not overwhelming. overall really reminds me of the FX850. I'll try playing some music on it for a bit while also testing battery life. 

treble is a bit grainy though. more grainy than the 65t. it also only supports SBC.

i also don't like the button functionality. no skip to previous track on this. 

so to sum up my list from best to least favorite is:
Sony and Earin > Sabbat > Jabra > Pamu

looks like I'm giving this to my wife if she's interested, or sell it if she doesn't like it


----------



## webvan

Thanks for the feedback.
I notice you still prefer the Sony to the Sabbat ? I thought you said you'd stopped using them in favor of the Sabbat lately ? Reason I'm asking is because I'm still on the fence about getting the Sabbat as I already have way too many headphones/earbuds/IEMs


----------



## chinmie

webvan said:


> Thanks for the feedback.
> I notice you still prefer the Sony to the Sabbat ? I thought you said you'd stopped using them in favor of the Sabbat lately ? Reason I'm asking is because I'm still on the fence about getting the Sabbat



on SQ i might prefer the sony and earin a little bit because given their IEM seal they will have a bit more detail in sound compared to the open back nature of the sabbat. but on overall usage, the sabbat still is my most used tws.
i brought it to an audio meet yesterday and most of them like the sabbat. my niece also ordered one after hearing it


----------



## alchemical

MW07s arrived today - extremely impressed with the sound. Will see how the battery fares but thanks to here I’m at least prepared for the worst, and my use cases mean I’m never listening for that long in one hit. Is there a Comply model that fits?


----------



## SomeGuyDude

firewatersun said:


> Coming up to the end of my cutoff for return with the MTW and really want to trade em in for an MW07. Physical buttons are just nicer IMO..
> 
> Seems like SQ is at least on par, and they do look so much better...
> 
> Has anyone ever consistently got 3.5 hours out of the MW07s?



I'm pretty sure the only way to get 3.5hr out of the MW07 is to sit them on a table with no music playing. They sounded absolutely gorgeous and I loved the fit and style, but if I had the volume up I was getting the volume warning in less than two hours.


----------



## firewatersun

SomeGuyDude said:


> I'm pretty sure the only way to get 3.5hr out of the MW07 is to sit them on a table with no music playing. They sounded absolutely gorgeous and I loved the fit and style, but if I had the volume up I was getting the volume warning in less than two hours.



Damn...Most of the time I don't need the 3.5, but there's already been a couple of times I pushed the MTW to the 4 hour (Christmas shopping is a nightmare)

Oh Modern and Dynamic, just do a collab with Sennheiser!!


----------



## RobinFood

Had a nice day at the earphone store the other day, trying TWE for the first time. I only had one hour, much less after figuring out how to pair them.
Just a note, I have a very bad phone, so I was using my Shanling M0 to test them, which meant they were all app-less, but I prefer not having to be hassled with using an app if I can help it anyways. I can't really comment on the battery life, but I gave each pair a good 10 minutes listen, and didn't get a single drop off in the store full of bluetooth interference.

I tried the MW07 first, and it was amazing! The sound was very nice, the bass was heart-felt, and the separation in Adele's live concert was amazing. The crowd, the instruments, and the voice all had their place. It was very nice. The fit was also perfect thanks to the wings, and the case was a very nice size.

I tried the new Sennheisers after, and coming from the MW07, they were disappointing. A lot less separation and detail, sounded a little flatter than I was expecting. Maybe they need the app to sound their best? The fit was awkward too, maybe something to get used to. Overall, not something I would drop 35,000 yen on. The case is nice and slick though, better than the MW07, if just because it is not a scratch and fingerprint magnet.

I then tried the Jabra 65ts. They were very comfortable, paired easy, and were very convenient. The sound though, was really bad. Everything sounded flat. I would probably opt to just not listen to music than deal with that.

Last, I tried the Sony sp700n. I actually really liked them! I thought the sound quality was almost the same as MW07s. Maybe 90% the SQ. That sub-bass in sk8erboi was really nice. Good separation and detail overall. The fit was nice, but the buttons were kind of awkward to push. The ANC was really weak at first, but when music starts playing it seems to get much stronger and blocked off a lot of clatter. On itself though, with no music playing, it was hard to tell that it was actually on. Compared to the WI1000X (collar bluetooth iems), the ANC was not much, but I can definitely see it kill the train sound well. The only thing I found disappointing was the HUGE lag in audio. I can't see myself doing more than listening to music...I am sure movies would be pretty laggy and need adjustments, and at that point it takes away the convenience of TWE. Still, less than half the price of the MW07 and the ANC really grew on me.

I will likely go back, I read recently that the Sony sp900n uses a balanced armature, and I love BA sound. It also has the ANC going for it, I wonder if it still has the lag. Maybe I am not ready for TWE yet, maybe I will just get a cheaper set to scratch an itch after Christmas...


----------



## chinmie

RobinFood said:


> Had a nice day at the earphone store the other day, trying TWE for the first time. I only had one hour, much less after figuring out how to pair them.
> Just a note, I have a very bad phone, so I was using my Shanling M0 to test them, which meant they were all app-less, but I prefer not having to be hassled with using an app if I can help it anyways. I can't really comment on the battery life, but I gave each pair a good 10 minutes listen, and didn't get a single drop off in the store full of bluetooth interference.
> 
> I tried the MW07 first, and it was amazing! The sound was very nice, the bass was heart-felt, and the separation in Adele's live concert was amazing. The crowd, the instruments, and the voice all had their place. It was very nice. The fit was also perfect thanks to the wings, and the case was a very nice size.
> ...



do try the SP900. I tried it on the sony store and really like it. by the way, have you tried the WF1000X also?


----------



## BigZ12 (Dec 17, 2018)

*TrueGrip™ Pro - The first Comply disappointment.*
I've bought a lot of Comply tips for many different in-ear headsets. 100% happy with all of them. Sound quality, bass, seal and comfort (especially noise from cables, chewing etc)
The TrueGrip™ Pro I got today, is sadly not fitting my ears. Too small, thus no seal and bass. Edit: There's only one size. Std/med.
I don't know what to use with my Sennheiser Momentum True Wireless now. I really hate silicon tips.... 
Any other suggestions?


----------



## dweaver

Interesting, I find the MTW to be better than the WF700N so I wonder if fit is a factor for some. I know my wife could not get them to fit in her ears properly.

Someone above mentioned they like a lean midrange. If you can live with a cable behind the neck the AKG N200 fit that sound profile to a T and give a solid 7 hours of battery life.


----------



## BigZ12

BigZ12 said:


> *TrueGrip™ Pro - The first Comply disappointment.*
> I've bought a lot of Comply tips for many different in-ear headsets. 100% happy with all of them. Sound quality, bass, seal and comfort (especially noise from cables, chewing etc)
> The TrueGrip™ Pro I got today, is sadly not fitting my ears. Too small, thus no seal and bass. Edit: There's only one size. Std/med.
> I don't know what to use with my Sennheiser Momentum True Wireless now. I really hate silicon tips....
> Any other suggestions?


Maybe I found a good fit in my collection of tips 
Attached a set of large Symbio W medium bore. Fits good, comfortable, a lot of bass (too much?) and they're open in mids/highs (no wax guard).
Thought they were too big for the carrying case, but fits nicely.


----------



## hifi80sman

RobinFood said:


> I will likely go back, I read recently that the Sony sp900n uses a balanced armature, and I love BA sound. It also has the ANC going for it, I wonder if it still has the lag. Maybe I am not ready for TWE yet, maybe I will just get a cheaper set to scratch an itch after Christmas...


https://www.sony.co.uk/electronics/truly-wireless/wf-sp900

Those look intriguing.  Too bad they are not available in the USA yet!  Given the WF-SP700N has been on sale forever and some stores (Target) had a few locations that clearanced them out, I hope that means they are coming soon.


----------



## Sharkhunter

BigZ12 said:


> *TrueGrip™ Pro - The first Comply disappointment.*
> I've bought a lot of Comply tips for many different in-ear headsets. 100% happy with all of them. Sound quality, bass, seal and comfort (especially noise from cables, chewing etc)
> The TrueGrip™ Pro I got today, is sadly not fitting my ears. Too small, thus no seal and bass. Edit: There's only one size. Std/med.
> I don't know what to use with my Sennheiser Momentum True Wireless now. I really hate silicon tips....
> Any other suggestions?



i got the true grip and didnt get a proper fit. i ended up digging through my tips that i had from previous purchases. i snipped a 3 mm height from my older comply tips and they worked perfect.

i ended up using symbio wide tips M size on both MW07 and Sennheiser TWS( which owned briefly and returned)


----------



## jfvny

oh wow the sony sp900 seem really great


----------



## RobinFood

chinmie said:


> do try the SP900. I tried it on the sony store and really like it. by the way, have you tried the WF1000X also?



I definitely will try the SP900. How would you say it compares to the SP700?

I did not try the WF1000X, after reading about the problems it had with frequent drop-outs I just ignored it and pretended it was just a dream.

I did try the WI1000X neckband model. It was interesting, especially for the ANC, but the mid-bass was a little too boosted, and it did crush some of the detail out on default. Also, neckband is like my least favorite format, the cases for them is almost the same size as a headphone case. I might try them again now that I can use bluetooth from my M0 instead of just out of my budget phone.


----------



## RobinFood

hifi80sman said:


> https://www.sony.co.uk/electronics/truly-wireless/wf-sp900
> 
> Those look intriguing.  Too bad they are not available in the USA yet!  Given the WF-SP700N has been on sale forever and some stores (Target) had a few locations that clearanced them out, I hope that means they are coming soon.



Oh, I didn't realize they were new! That makes me want to try them even more! The price difference was only of about 6000 yen for the 4GB storage and nicer case.
Unfortunately, I will be in Canada for Christmas, so no chance to try any audio until I come back to Japan after New Years.


----------



## chinmie

RobinFood said:


> I definitely will try the SP900. How would you say it compares to the SP700?
> 
> I did not try the WF1000X, after reading about the problems it had with frequent drop-outs I just ignored it and pretended it was just a dream.
> 
> I did try the WI1000X neckband model. It was interesting, especially for the ANC, but the mid-bass was a little too boosted, and it did crush some of the detail out on default. Also, neckband is like my least favorite format, the cases for them is almost the same size as a headphone case. I might try them again now that I can use bluetooth from my M0 instead of just out of my budget phone.



the SP900 has less bass and clearer mids and treble. fit is almost the same as the 700. if only i haven't have all the other TWS, i would definitely pick that one. 

the WF1000X achilles heel is that ANC and Ambient mode causing the drop outs. turn those off and it is quite stable. you shoukd try it, at least as reference and comparison to the other Sony's and the MW07


----------



## dweaver

Ok first couple of frustrations with the MTW. 3 times I have had to do the reset thing in the case and tonight after I reset them I barely got on the bus and they said the battery was dead. That was after sitting in the case all afternoon and the case was charged last night. So will monitor how they work for the next couple of days. If this continues I will be adjusted my review accordingly with new comments and they will be going back...


----------



## clerkpalmer (Dec 17, 2018)

dweaver said:


> Ok first couple of frustrations with the MTW. 3 times I have had to do the reset thing in the case and tonight after I reset them I barely got on the bus and they said the battery was dead. That was after sitting in the case all afternoon and the case was charged last night. So will monitor how they work for the next couple of days. If this continues I will be adjusted my review accordingly with new comments and they will be going back...


I’ve wondered if it’s a a software issue rather than a hardware issue. This makes me think it is and would explain a lot. Sadly with no ability for updates they will probably fix it quietly and just deal with the warranty returns.  Edit as an FYI they will not honor warranty claims unless purchased from an authorized dealer.


----------



## dweaver

Bought direct from Sennheiser so should  be OK


----------



## howdy

dweaver said:


> Ok first couple of frustrations with the MTW. 3 times I have had to do the reset thing in the case and tonight after I reset them I barely got on the bus and they said the battery was dead. That was after sitting in the case all afternoon and the case was charged last night. So will monitor how they work for the next couple of days. If this continues I will be adjusted my review accordingly with new comments and they will be going back...


I've had those same very frustrating issues with my B&O E8s a handful of times.


----------



## dweaver

I am going to diligently make sure they are seated properly to ensure it wasn't me. If they still have issues then I will assume it's a flaw of the MTW and at $400 I won't be taking any chances...


----------



## howdy

dweaver said:


> I am going to diligently make sure they are seated properly to ensure it wasn't me. If they still have issues then I will assume it's a flaw of the MTW and at $400 I won't be taking any chances...


In my case being I've had my E8s about 4-5 months I figured they are dirty so I cleaned it today with a Q-tip and contact cleaner and we'll see if that makes a difference. 
As for you, yours is to new for such issues unless the tips are pushing it up so it's not making contact.


----------



## bronco1015

long day but came home to delivered MTW's. Charging them right now but some initial thoughts, not a fan of the charging case. to long and to wide in the worst way. iems are a bit  chunkier than I pictured, but have a high quality feel and can seal very well. just curious, has anyone listened to both the PSB M4U TW1 and the MTW? What are your thoughts if you have?


----------



## webvan

chinmie said:


> the SP900 has less bass and clearer mids and treble. fit is almost the same as the 700. if only i haven't have all the other TWS, i would definitely pick that one.
> 
> the WF1000X achilles heel is that ANC and Ambient mode causing the drop outs. turn those off and it is quite stable. you shoukd try it, at least as reference and comparison to the other Sony's and the MW07



There are a couple of reviews of the SP900 on YT now (in Japanese mostly) and it seems to fit closer to the ear than the SP700 ?
Also the battery life is still as bad, that's really a problem with the Sony TWs, yesterday I got a paltry 2h15' from my WF1000X and part of it was without playing music too !


----------



## firewatersun

Sharkhunter said:


> i got the true grip and didnt get a proper fit. i ended up digging through my tips that i had from previous purchases. i snipped a 3 mm height from my older comply tips and they worked perfect.
> 
> i ended up using symbio wide tips M size on both MW07 and Sennheiser TWS( which owned briefly and returned)



I assume you preferred the MW07 sound, since you returned the Sennheisers?


----------



## dweaver

OK got to the office and checked the MTW case and it was dead. So I am thinking my charger I was using wasn't working properly so the case was getting charged versus an issue with the MTW themselves. In anticipation of this I brought a different charger and cable with me. I will test and give feedback later.

Someone asked whether I like the case as they found it to big. I wish it was smaller but dont have any real issues with its size myself. I like how it feels in hand.


----------



## korefuji

There seems to be a problem with charging mtw that I noticed. I’d have it plugged in via usb however I noticed several times where the light goes from green to flashing yellow indicating it’s charging because the buds dropped charge so I don’t think your case is isolated I think it’s a design flaw in how they charge as they don’t seemjngkh turn off


----------



## Rickyearl

MY MTW sometimes don't charge in case - it's like they don't "notice" they're not still out - they will even keep playing.  Plugging the case into USBC fixes this somehow.  The case will also sometimes just not notice it's charging, but removing and putting the MTWs back in the case fixes that.  So...yeah.  Not ideal.


----------



## Sharkhunter

firewatersun said:


> I assume you preferred the MW07 sound, since you returned the Sennheisers?



Yes. But picked up sennheiser again from classified here to give it an another chance.


----------



## Sharkhunter

dweaver said:


> OK got to the office and checked the MTW case and it was dead. So I am thinking my charger I was using wasn't working properly so the case was getting charged versus an issue with the MTW themselves. In anticipation of this I brought a different charger and cable with me. I will test and give feedback later.
> 
> Someone asked whether I like the case as they found it to big. I wish it was smaller but dont have any real issues with its size myself. I like how it feels in hand.



Bang Olufsen E8's case screamed all premium. I wish others would have kept the same small form factor like E8's Case.


----------



## Rickyearl

Sharkhunter said:


> Bang Olufsen E8's case screamed all premium. I wish others would have kept the same small form factor like E8's Case.


Yeah, all the "fit and finish" stuff on the E8 is better than on the MTW.  Everything from the shape of the case to the magnet to the LEDs seems better and more thought through.  

But, as is documented in detail here, the E8s just don't sound as good to me no matter what I try.  Just thinner and more anemic.  I have tried every type and combination of tips I could think of, switched apps, even switched devices.  All the same result.  MTW sounds like a good car stereo - not one of those silly things with a sub in the trunk, but a well placed set of speakers tuned to work together.  E8 sounds like you have smaller speakers and pulled the bass down.


----------



## hifi80sman

dweaver said:


> Someone asked whether I like the case as they found it to big. I wish it was smaller but dont have any real issues with its size myself. I like how it feels in hand.


That's what she said.

I know, grow up.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

Rickyearl said:


> Yeah, all the "fit and finish" stuff on the E8 is better than on the MTW.  Everything from the shape of the case to the magnet to the LEDs seems better and more thought through.
> 
> But, as is documented in detail here, the E8s just don't sound as good to me no matter what I try.  Just thinner and more anemic.  I have tried every type and combination of tips I could think of, switched apps, even switched devices.  All the same result.  MTW sounds like a good car stereo - not one of those silly things with a sub in the trunk, but a well placed set of speakers tuned to work together.  E8 sounds like you have smaller speakers and pulled the bass down.



This is wild to me. the e8 in my ears is very, very full and if I use the app the bass can be downright overwhelming.


----------



## hifi80sman

SomeGuyDude said:


> This is wild to me. the e8 in my ears is very, very full and if I use the app the bass can be downright overwhelming.


@Rickyearl You may want to exchange for another pair.  My current pair gets bassy and certainly has a warm signature.  As noted, my first pair was tinny, kinda like that guy in the gym with the shiny silver weights.


----------



## Rickyearl

hifi80sman said:


> @Rickyearl You may want to exchange for another pair.  My current pair gets bassy and certainly has a warm signature.  As noted, my first pair was tinny, kinda like that guy in the gym with the shiny silver weights.



Don't know how to respond to that.   This *is* my second pair.  And they sound better than the first pair.

See below:

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/goi...are-we-there-yet.861024/page-83#post-14533225


----------



## Rickyearl

SomeGuyDude said:


> This is wild to me. the e8 in my ears is very, very full and if I use the app the bass can be downright overwhelming.



Are you CONUS?  I'd be willing to send mine to you to try and see if you hear them differently.  I'm really just curious at this point.


----------



## raheelc

I've been looking around for a pair of truly wireless earbuds for a while now. After trying out a pair on kickstarter (EOZ air) and having issues with those, I decided to try out something more mainstream. I just picked up the Sony SP700N, and the Jabra Elite 65t. Going to test both of them out and see which one I'll likely keep for running/gym/working out etc. Are there any other earbuds I should check out for working out, etc? I've been eyeing the 1more and the RHA true connect, but the 1more have pretty crappy stated battery life, and I haven't heard much about the RHA true connects.

I may pick up a second more higher end version as well. Reading through the thread, it seems as though the MW07 have better sound than the Sennheisers, but shorter battery life, correct?


----------



## Rickyearl (Dec 18, 2018)

raheelc said:


> I've been looking around for a pair of truly wireless earbuds for a while now. After trying out a pair on kickstarter (EOZ air) and having issues with those, I decided to try out something more mainstream. I just picked up the Sony SP700N, and the Jabra Elite 65t. Going to test both of them out and see which one I'll likely keep for running/gym/working out etc. Are there any other earbuds I should check out for working out, etc? I've been eyeing the 1more and the RHA true connect, but the 1more have pretty crappy stated battery life, and I haven't heard much about the RHA true connects.
> 
> I may pick up a second more higher end version as well. Reading through the thread, it seems as though the MW07 have better sound than the Sennheisers, but shorter battery life, correct?



I hate to always be the contrarian here, but I like the Senns better, although I only tried the MW07s briefly.  The MW07 had a little too much bass for me - it drowned out some of the detail.


----------



## turbobb

I have a pair of cheapy TWS inbound that are supposed to be BT 5.0. Does anyone know how to check the BT version of the connected device on Android? I'm aware of Dev Options but that only shows the codecs and not the actual BT version.

TIA!


----------



## hifi80sman

raheelc said:


> I've been looking around for a pair of truly wireless earbuds for a while now. After trying out a pair on kickstarter (EOZ air) and having issues with those, I decided to try out something more mainstream. I just picked up the Sony SP700N, and the Jabra Elite 65t. Going to test both of them out and see which one I'll likely keep for running/gym/working out etc. Are there any other earbuds I should check out for working out, etc? I've been eyeing the 1more and the RHA true connect, but the 1more have pretty crappy stated battery life, and I haven't heard much about the RHA true connects.
> 
> I may pick up a second more higher end version as well. Reading through the thread, it seems as though the MW07 have better sound than the Sennheisers, but shorter battery life, correct?


If battery life is not a concern for you, the MW07, IMO, are the best "lifestyle" product.

If the gym is your thing, the Bose SoundSport Free are good, but lack isolation, so noisy gyms can be an issue.  I'd pick the Jabra Active Elite 65t (still on sale for $139 at Amazon & Best Buy) over the WF-SP700N, both because of battery life and they sound a touch better to me.  The Jabra are also more feature rich and isolate well.  I do not have the reported left side hissing on my pair.


----------



## raheelc

Rickyearl said:


> I hate to always be the contrarian here, but I like the Senns better, although I only tried the MW07s briefly.  The MW07 had a little too much bass for me - it drowned out some of the detail.



I'm a bit of a basshead, so the extra bass in the mw07 may just be what I'm looking for. I'm actually holding off on buying the higher end pair (MW07 or Sennheiser) until January, because I have some ebay bucks coming up that I'm going to try and use on whichever pair I decide to buy (I know ebay probably isn't the best place to buy, but hopefully the cost difference will make up for it!)



hifi80sman said:


> If battery life is not a concern for you, the MW07, IMO, are the best "lifestyle" product.
> 
> If the gym is your thing, the Bose SoundSport Free are good, but lack isolation, so noisy gyms can be an issue.  I'd pick the Jabra Active Elite 65t (still on sale for $139 at Amazon & Best Buy) over the WF-SP700N, both because of battery life and they sound a touch better to me.  The Jabra are also more feature rich and isolate well.  I do not have the reported left side hissing on my pair.



Thanks for the insight. I definitely like the extra features of the 65t too. Figured I would try both side by side and then decide which one to keep. What's the difference between the 65t and 65t active? It's just the motion/step sensor, and I think a higher rating for water resistance, correct? I was initially planning on picking up the 65t active, but my local best buy only had the standard in stock. May return the standard and order the active if I decide I like the sound of those better.


----------



## howdy

Rickyearl said:


> Are you CONUS?  I'd be willing to send mine to you to try and see if you hear them differently.  I'm really just curious at this point.[/QUO


I'm listening to my E8s right now and they have tons of bass as well. I have my circle on the smallest one and just a touch to the warm relaxed side. I'm using the Spin fit tips recommended for the E8.
I'm in Minnesota if you want to send this way?


----------



## god-bluff

The early reviews for the SP900 on Amazon Uk are not very positive.

They weren't for the WF-1000W either but at least no-one complained about the actual sound quality


----------



## dweaver

Regarding which is best between the MTW versus MW07 sound quality wise. I think it will boil down to which signature a person likes best versus one being "better" than another as it sounds like both offer a higher quality of sound.

Can those who have had both describe the differences in how they sound versus just saying they like one more than the other. Can you also mention if you had any fit issues with either IEM itself of the tips. These being the biggest areas that will negatively impact sound quality if there is an issue.

If anyone had strong evidence one is truly better from the other technically speaking such as more detail. Please give an example of a song that others can use to hear the difference.


----------



## dweaver

Took a quick read of the SP900 reviews on Amazon UK. Sure sounds like these suffer from a single BA and remind of the original Sony single BA released a few years ago. It suffered in the bass and treble to.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

Rickyearl said:


> Are you CONUS?  I'd be willing to send mine to you to try and see if you hear them differently.  I'm really just curious at this point.



Pittsburgh, Pa,  but I wouldn't wanna put you out like that.


----------



## clerkpalmer

SomeGuyDude said:


> Pittsburgh, Pa,  but I wouldn't wanna put you out like that.


Me too. Small world.


----------



## dweaver

Anyone try the SOL Republic Amps Air 2.0? They are on sale for $99 at Bestbuy in Canada. They have a ridiculous amount of recharges and can even recharge a phone from the case.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

hifi80sman said:


> If battery life is not a concern for you, the MW07, IMO, are the best "lifestyle" product.
> 
> If the gym is your thing, the Bose SoundSport Free are good, but lack isolation, so noisy gyms can be an issue.  I'd pick the Jabra Active Elite 65t (still on sale for $139 at Amazon & Best Buy) over the WF-SP700N, both because of battery life and they sound a touch better to me.  The Jabra are also more feature rich and isolate well.  I do not have the reported left side hissing on my pair.



Someday I seriously want to borrow someone's Jabra that they say has no hiss because I went through gawdam FIVE sets of them and each one had a left side hiss so all I can think is either my body emits a weird kind of interference or I'm more sensitive to the sound than most.


----------



## howdy

I said f-it and bought the Senns just now hopefully have them buy the weekend to try out and compare it with the MW07 and E8s.


----------



## dweaver (Dec 19, 2018)

Look forward to your take on the MTW


----------



## SteveKiwi

On a bit of an impulse buy, I purchased the Audiofly AFT1, basically because I have the AF180's which I enjoyed in the past. 

Anyway these aren't Bluetooth 5, and only support SBC, but even with these "limitations" they sound surprisingly good, much better than the beoplay I have and as good if not better than my Jabra Elite 65t.

The connectivity seems solid so far and the fit and comfort is excellent YMMV on that of course. 

For a cheaper than average pair I really can't complain about these for 199 NZD.


----------



## firewatersun (Dec 19, 2018)

Returning the Sennheisers even though I love em due to the sticking-out look, weird gestures and difficulty grabbing them.

Happily Sennheiser are being great about the return (Their online store in EU is not great however, as it's run by Digital River)

However customer service said they are already working on another version with better comfort! That's interesting, although who knows when it'll be released.


----------



## korefuji

firewatersun said:


> Returning the Sennheisers even though I love em due to the sticking-out look, weird gestures and difficulty grabbing them.
> 
> Happily Sennheiser are being great about the return (Their online store in EU is not great however, as it's run by Digital River)
> 
> However customer service said they are already working on another version with better comfort! That's interesting, although who knows when it'll be released.



I hope they're working on charging features, as well as connectivity and battery life too!

Can you elaborate what you mean by digital river not being compliant? I was able to return mine without much fuss, though I havent' received a refund yet


----------



## BigZ12

/ https://itunes.apple.com/no/album/når-du-går/1439892359?i=1439892360&l=nb / https://tidal.com/track/97188592

I've "bothered" you with Kari Bremnes before, and here I go again. (actually two of you have pm'd me thanking me for introducing Kari's music to them  )

The Sennheiser MTWs really hate her recordings! The deep, tight bass on the tracks I've linked to earlier and now this new song.
I'm amazed... I can not play this at all on the MTW without going nuts. 
Crackling on the right all through the song, and the SBC bass noise on the left also through (almost) the entire song.
Tested with BeatsX and Sony MX3 from same source (iPhone X AAC). 100% clean of bass noise and crackle....
I hope Sennheiser will answer my email, and explain.
As always you need pretty high volume to hear the artifacts clearly.


----------



## sly_in_the_sky (Dec 19, 2018)

BigZ12 said:


> / https://itunes.apple.com/no/album/når-du-går/1439892359?i=1439892360&l=nb / https://tidal.com/track/97188592
> 
> I've "bothered" you with Kari Bremnes before, and here I go again. (actually two of you have pm'd me thanking me for introducing Kari's music to them  )
> 
> ...




Hello, I juste listened to this exact song with my MTW, played with my Iphone 7 from the streaming service Qobuz (downloaded in lossless file), the volume almost at 100%, eq on standard and I really don't ear any crackling or something that make me feel that there's a problem with bass. Are these crakling very loud or is it something very subtile?


----------



## BigZ12 (Dec 19, 2018)

sly_in_the_sky said:


> Hello, I juste listened to this exact song with my MTW, played with my Iphone 7 from the streaming service Qobuz (downloaded in lossless file), the volume almost at 100%, eq on standard and I really don't ear any crackling or something that make me feel that there's a problem with bass. Are these crakling very loud or is it something very subtile?


Both noise are subtle, but if you know what to listen for it's very annoying.

Did you test the SBC noise check with the tone generator?
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/goi...re-we-there-yet.861024/page-200#post-14660620

The crackle on the right is the same as with this test: Start from 38-39 secs.
www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=39&v=2ZrWHtvSog4
The same crackle with Røyksopp - Running in the sea, Disturbed - Sound of silence, Robbie Robertson - Fallen angel for example.


----------



## sly_in_the_sky (Dec 19, 2018)

I tested with that:

test: Start from 38-39 secs.
www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=39&v=2ZrWHtvSog4

at 40 I can listen in the right piece, some subtile crackling yes...

It’s a pitty because I like them a lot... really nice sound...

I’ll try this test with my Jabra Elite Active


----------



## BigZ12

I'm listening again now.... about 9 of 10 in volume. AAC with iPhone X. The "SBC noise" on the left is so noticable with the kettledrum (or what kind of drum it is) and the crackle on the right is present throughout the track (most noticable in the most quiet parts).
I don't know if I can take this :O Listening for the artifacts on all songs


----------



## BigZ12

sly_in_the_sky said:


> I tested with that:
> 
> test: Start from 38-39 secs.
> www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=39&v=2ZrWHtvSog4
> ...


Yes, that's the same crackle I hear on many tracks. Not present on my 5 other BT headsets (but one here heard it with a B&O E8)
I like them too. Found a fantastic seal with Symbio W tips, and the shape of them suits my ear so well. Sit very tight, and they don't stick out at all. And yes, I like the SQ as well. A little bassy, but still open and detailed enough in mids/highs.


----------



## BigZ12

sly_in_the_sky said:


> I tested with that:
> 
> test: Start from 38-39 secs.
> www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=39&v=2ZrWHtvSog4
> ...


Do you hear the "SBC bass noise" on the left with the tone generator? 20-100hz. With your iPhone 7 with AAC.
Cause it's not present with AAC on other AAC supported headsets. 
I don't know if you read the thread, but SBC always gives that noise (on both sides), while the MTWs gives me the same only in the left speaker. 
Would love it if you can test it on your MTWs.
One theory is that it's caused by the NFMI transfer from right to left speaker. And that NFMI use SBC as codec.


----------



## sly_in_the_sky

The Eq on the momentum work well so finding them to bassy, it’s easy to balance them in a personnal way...


----------



## sly_in_the_sky

BigZ12 said:


> Do you hear the "SBC bass noise" on the left with the tone generator? 20-100hz. With your iPhone 7 with AAC.
> Cause it's not present with AAC on other AAC supported headsets.
> I don't know if you read the thread, but SBC always gives that noise (on both sides), while the MTWs gives me the same only in the left speaker.
> Would love it if you can test it on your MTWs.
> One theory is that it's caused by the NFMI transfer from right to left speaker. And that NFMI use SBC as codec.



Could you give me the exact test and the exact moment when you ear this effect please?


----------



## BigZ12

sly_in_the_sky said:


> Could you give me the exact test and the exact moment when you ear this effect please?


http://www.szynalski.com/tone-generator/
Just use 20-100hz
All of the others in here heard the noise with SBC. Both channels.
It's a shame it's present on the MTWs on the left with AAC/AptX
Would love for you to test it, preferably with AAC to see if it's there with your MTWs as well.
And yes, you need a little volume to hear the high pitch noise clearly.


----------



## sly_in_the_sky (Dec 19, 2018)

I tried the test and except that I have a strange « wave » noise at 17 HZ in the right piece (surely due to MTW’s limits), I really don’t feel something strange in the bass region. Is it perhaps I haven’t identified exactly the kind of crackling noise but to my ears there’s nothing really annoying at the point of no return except perhaps that the bass could be more linear...

Is there a precise frequency where we can clearly ear these cracklings?


----------



## firewatersun

korefuji said:


> I hope they're working on charging features, as well as connectivity and battery life too!
> 
> Can you elaborate what you mean by digital river not being compliant? I was able to return mine without much fuss, though I havent' received a refund yet



Sent them a request to return, and they decided to tell me to take it up with Sennheiser technical support! I specifically requested a return label, citing the reasons why, and they ignored that part of the message. 

Sennheiser Customer support was much better, they said they told Digital River to send me a return label ASAP, and not to worry about the 30 day (as I was still within the 30 when I sent the request initially). Awaiting that atm, but really well done to Marvin from the CS team.


----------



## korefuji

firewatersun said:


> Sent them a request to return, and they decided to tell me to take it up with Sennheiser technical support! I specifically requested a return label, citing the reasons why, and they ignored that part of the message.
> 
> Sennheiser Customer support was much better, they said they told Digital River to send me a return label ASAP, and not to worry about the 30 day (as I was still within the 30 when I sent the request initially). Awaiting that atm, but really well done to Marvin from the CS team.



Yeah I know that digital river have their thumbs in a lot of pies as cs for various companies, but that is shoddy behaviour on their part


----------



## BigZ12 (Dec 19, 2018)

sly_in_the_sky said:


> I tried the test and except that I have a strange « wave » noise at 17 HZ in the right piece (surely due to MTW’s limits), I really don’t feel something strange in the bass region. Is it perhaps I haven’t identified exactly the kind of crackling noise but to my ears there’s nothing really annoying at the point of no return except perhaps that the bass could be more linear...
> 
> Is there a precise frequency where we can clearly ear these cracklings?


Don't you hear the high pitch noise with the bass? Like a reverberation?
Have you got the chance to test 20 --> 100hz (not an exact frequency) with SBC codec? Do you have an Apple Tv for ex, or a portable PC with BT (often just SBC codec on those).
Then you "have to" hear the noise I'm referring to.
Then try to isolate the same noise on the MTWs with AAC. Left side.


----------



## BigZ12

Tried the tone generator now with Google Chrome on iPhone X - AAC codec - and it's most noticable with 20-50hz. High pitch "whine". 100% only in the left channel.


----------



## sly_in_the_sky (Dec 19, 2018)

BigZ12 said:


> Don't you hear the high pitch noise with the bass? Like a reverberation?
> Have you got the chance to test 20 --> 100hz (not an exact frequency) with SBC codec? Do you have an Apple Tv for ex, or a portable PC with BT (often just SBC codec on those).
> Then you "have to" hear the noise I'm referring to.
> Then try to isolate the same noise on the MTWs with AAC. Left side.



I deffinitly don't hear any high pitch noise with my MTW and my Iphone 7with AAC codec. At this moment can't try with my computer but I really can confirm that I don't hear any high pitch with my phone...Bass are clean... Perhaps is it because of my ears?


----------



## dweaver

I cant hear this sound either on my MTW. Not saying the sound isn't there but I can not hear it. I owned a different headphone that a colleague could hear hissing on that I couldn't so I may have hearing loss that keeps me from hearing it. Or it may the type of sound only some people can hear.


----------



## BigZ12 (Dec 19, 2018)

dweaver said:


> I cant hear this sound either on my MTW. Not saying the sound isn't there but I can not hear it. I owned a different headphone that a colleague could hear hissing on that I couldn't so I may have hearing loss that keeps me from hearing it. Or it may the type of sound only some people can hear.


But you didn't hear it with SBC either? On any headsets?
It's quite a high pitch noise, so it can be because of limited hearing? I can still hear at least 13000hz... and I'm 49...
Edit: Did a test on internet now, and heard over 14500hz all 3 times in the test. My age of hearing was about 39-40 years old it said


----------



## sly_in_the_sky

I also can hear 14'000hz with my left ear, my right ear is weaker and am 43... but no high pitch noise on my senn with Iphone.


----------



## webvan (Dec 19, 2018)

Tried that myself with the 65Ts and WF1000x in SBC/AAC and G1 in SBC on my Nokia 8 Android Phone and can't hear anything suspicious ? There is this kind of "siren" noise that goes up then down after a few seconds but I get it both in SBC and AAC. Weird...

As a side note, even though it's SBC only, the sound of the Havit G1 is a LOT clearer than the Sony and Jabra and doesn't go all "interefered" above 14000.


----------



## voxie

I see that RHA Audio have released a set of wireless iem's  called TrueConnect. Has anyone purchased them? If so, any impressions?


----------



## korefuji

voxie said:


> I see that RHA Audio have released a set of wireless iem's  called TrueConnect. Has anyone purchased them? If so, any impressions?



You'll have to go back several pages, but a couple of folks grabbed em and seem impressed by everything but the lack of OTA, and weird push button functionality


----------



## BigZ12

sly_in_the_sky said:


> I also can hear 14'000hz with my left ear, my right ear is weaker and am 43... but no high pitch noise on my senn with Iphone.


I think that's so strange. I've got two sets, and both have the same artifacts.


----------



## james444

BigZ12 said:


> I think that's so strange. I've got two sets, and both have the same artifacts.



Well, I just checked again on my BT20, but the noise I hear with SBC isn't particularly high frequency, maybe around 2kHz or so.


----------



## Rickyearl

BigZ12 said:


> / https://itunes.apple.com/no/album/når-du-går/1439892359?i=1439892360&l=nb / https://tidal.com/track/97188592
> 
> I've "bothered" you with Kari Bremnes before, and here I go again. (actually two of you have pm'd me thanking me for introducing Kari's music to them  )
> 
> ...





Listened to this sample 4x each on my Senns and E8s.  Full volume.  Iphone XS.  Played directly through the link on the post.

Nothing whatsoever in terms of crackle or artifacts on my Senns.

One tiny "pop" of static - only on the left - about 2 seconds from the start on the E8s.  Would not have noticed it had I not been looking for it.  Now, it's possible that the Senns slightly boomy bass might have covered that up, since my E8s are a lot less bassy.

I don't know what to tell you.  I even checked my hearing and I can hear tones through the same setup at least up to 16000.


----------



## Rickyearl

SomeGuyDude said:


> Pittsburgh, Pa,  but I wouldn't wanna put you out like that.


It's like $10 in postage - not a big deal and would be worth it for my curiosity.  We can do it after Christmas if you have time.


----------



## hifi80sman (Dec 19, 2018)

webvan said:


> Tried that myself with the 65Ts and WF1000x in SBC/AAC and G1 in SBC on my Nokia 8 Android Phone and can't hear anything suspicious ? There is this kind of "siren" noise that goes up then down after a few seconds but I get it both in SBC and AAC. Weird...
> 
> As a side note, even though it's SBC only, the sound of the Havit G1 is a LOT clearer than the Sony and Jabra and doesn't go all "interefered" above 14000.


According to their website, the Havit G1 support AAC.
https://www.prohavit.com/g1-series-tws-true-wireless-earbuds/#specs

They are also branded under the Soundstream name.  I saw them at Fry's Electronics for $99.99.
https://www.amazon.com/Soundstream-h2GO-Wireless-Earbuds-Charging/dp/B07KCN1R1W


----------



## nc8000

hifi80sman said:


> According to their website, the Havit G1 support AAC.
> https://www.prohavit.com/g1-series-tws-true-wireless-earbuds/#specs
> 
> They are also branded under the Soundstream name.  I saw them at Fry's Electronics for $99.99.
> https://www.amazon.com/Soundstream-h2GO-Wireless-Earbuds-Charging/dp/B07KCN1R1W



Same on Banggood where I bought mine


----------



## webvan

They don't as I verified a few pages/posts ago with two different Android Smartphones (Nokia 8 and Xiaomi 8) and I think someone else had mentioned it before me too. At least the version sold on Amazon.de, maybe there's another one but I've seen no indication that there is ?


----------



## BigZ12

james444 said:


> Well, I just checked again on my BT20, but the noise I hear with SBC isn't particularly high frequency, maybe around 2kHz or so.


You're absolutely right, my bad.


----------



## dweaver

I can only hear around 11,000khz or so if the sound is above that I will never hear it. But it sounds like Rickyearl can hear to quite a high frequency and does not hear this sound.

I wonder if there is a possibility of some environmental factor happening here. BT is so susceptable to electric interference is it possible you have something in your area affecting things BigZ12? Have you used the MTW in multiple geographic locations with the same result everywhere?


----------



## BigZ12

Rickyearl said:


> Listened to this sample 4x each on my Senns and E8s.  Full volume.  Iphone XS.  Played directly through the link on the post.
> 
> Nothing whatsoever in terms of crackle or artifacts on my Senns.
> 
> ...


And I don't know what to tell you, the others (or myself  ) 
But I hear the crackle/squeaking on the right, same noise as the sound check video I've posted before, and the "SBC noise" (now stated not so high pitch frequency as I've said) on the left with AAC. Especially when the kettledrum? start playing.
Noticable from 3/4 volume and up.


----------



## BigZ12

dweaver said:


> I can only hear around 11,000khz or so if the sound is above that I will never hear it. But it sounds like Rickyearl can hear to quite a high frequency and does not hear this sound.
> 
> I wonder if there is a possibility of some environmental factor happening here. BT is so susceptable to electric interference is it possible you have something in your area affecting things BigZ12? Have you used the MTW in multiple geographic locations with the same result everywhere?


As I've written so many times that you're soon (or already) sick of me, but I've tested all this with so many sources, codecs and headsets... I'm sure that it couldn't be related to this.
The result is always the same, and I have been testing in different rooms in my flat too.


----------



## BigZ12

Rickyearl said:


> Listened to this sample 4x each on my Senns and E8s.  Full volume.  Iphone XS.  Played directly through the link on the post.
> 
> Nothing whatsoever in terms of crackle or artifacts on my Senns.
> 
> ...


And now, I've heard the entire song with the same source using the Clipper Pro BT transmitter with the excellent Soundmagic E11C... no noise whatsoever.


----------



## clerkpalmer

I've had a couple of days now with my RHA True Connect after getting a quick replacement from Audio 46.  Impressions are very good for their price range ($150 with no tax at Audio46 using discount code).  SQ is very good.  It's definitely a fun sound signature with some processed oomph and a vshape.  It's not as bloated or overdone as the Sony's.  To my ears, they are very clear sounding with good bass.  I'd put them ahead of the 65T and the SP700n but below the MW07 and the Senns.  As for the Senns, I'd say it's a close call with Senns being warmer and fuller and the TC being a little more balanced and brighter.  Overall very impressed with the SQ and probably the best I've heard at this price range.

Connection is stable - no issues.  Battery life seems excellent.  I haven't drained them but barely a dent in a 50 minute gym session whereas sony and MW07 would be down to medium in a hurry.  The case is a work of art.  Metal, solid, feels great.  Love it.

Fit is the sticking point for me right now.  On one ear, the fit seems "loose".  It feels like it's going to fall out or the seal will break although they did not in fact fall out.  Nevertheless, the feeling of it happening has me constantly adjusting them.  I tried the large tips but they were worse.  I'm not a hug fan of foam tips but I may have to go with them here.  Going to keep experimenting.  The fit is very shallow and they do not appear to be designed for deep insertion.  Isolation is below average.  Not as open as something like the Bose but they don't seal off like the 65T.  I think they shallower fit contributes to a more open sound.

Overall, very solid offering. If I can solve the fit issue, they will be my new 65t replacements since they SQ upgrade is noticeable.  As an aside, my tests are using an iPhone x.  These appear to support AAC per those using them with android.


----------



## korefuji

clerkpalmer said:


> I've had a couple of days now with my RHA True Connect after getting a quick replacement from Audio 46.  Impressions are very good for their price range ($150 with no tax at Audio46 using discount code).  SQ is very good.  It's definitely a fun sound signature with some processed oomph and a vshape.  It's not as bloated or overdone as the Sony's.  To my ears, they are very clear sounding with good bass.  I'd put them ahead of the 65T and the SP700n but below the MW07 and the Senns.  As for the Senns, I'd say it's a close call with Senns being warmer and fuller and the TC being a little more balanced and brighter.  Overall very impressed with the SQ and probably the best I've heard at this price range.
> 
> Connection is stable - no issues.  Battery life seems excellent.  I haven't drained them but barely a dent in a 50 minute gym session whereas sony and MW07 would be down to medium in a hurry.  The case is a work of art.  Metal, solid, feels great.  Love it.
> 
> ...



Thanks for this. I was tempted by the TC's but the lack of OTA for any problems that might occur was a bit of a sticking point, and I don't likethe apple airpod style design with the buds sticking down the side like a sore thumb. Other than that, they seem great, the OTA is not a deal breaker, but I just grabbed the Jabra Active 65t so I guess im stuck with these for now. Will keep an eye on future developments though


----------



## hifi80sman

Just ordered up the Zolo Liberty+ from Amazon.  They are currently 50% off and look solid.  I tried the standard Liberty version and actually liked it, but I just couldn't keep them knowing there was a better version out there.  LOL!  

https://slickdeals.net/f/12479653-a...hones-amazon?src=SiteSearchV2_SearchBarV2Algo


----------



## clerkpalmer

Just sucked it up and went back to mw07 after selling my senns here. They sound so damn good and fit so well. I’m going to just use them in the gym price be damned. Sq is addicting. As an aside this is my third pair with noticeable left side hiss. It goes away with music so at this point I’m convinced they all have it. It’s tolerable and I knew what I was getting into. Decided to pay full price so warranty is in tact.


----------



## Chmate

BigZ12 said:


> / https://itunes.apple.com/no/album/når-du-går/1439892359?i=1439892360&l=nb / https://tidal.com/track/97188592
> 
> I've "bothered" you with Kari Bremnes before, and here I go again. (actually two of you have pm'd me thanking me for introducing Kari's music to them  )
> 
> ...



As before, this song crackles pretty much non-stop on the right at higher volumes (iPhone XS as source)—to such a degree that I cannot appreciate the song. Nothing on the Beyerdynamic Amiron Wireless, also using the same phone's Bluetooth.

Relatedly, my MTWs also make the high-pitched noise on the left between 20 and 120 Hz on your tone generator.


----------



## raheelc

After trying out the Sony sp700n and the 65t, I'm going to go with the 65t. I could get a better fit with the 65's, plus I found the SQ on them to be better than the Sony's (the 65t's sounded clearer, the bass sounded crisper, and call quality was better). Going to be returning the Sony's and sticking with the 65t actives. The Rha's seem to be getting good reviews as well, may try those out too. Do the Rha's have an app?


----------



## BigZ12

Chmate said:


> As before, this song crackles pretty much non-stop on the right at higher volumes (iPhone XS as source)—to such a degree that I cannot appreciate the song. Nothing on the Beyerdynamic Amiron Wireless, also using the same phone's Bluetooth.
> 
> Relatedly, my MTWs also make the high-pitched noise on the left between 20 and 120 Hz on your tone generator.


Thank you! I think I love you <3 
I thought I was crazy


----------



## SomeGuyDude

Rickyearl said:


> It's like $10 in postage - not a big deal and would be worth it for my curiosity.  We can do it after Christmas if you have time.



If you're up for it, sure I'd be down to give 'em a go. I'm moving right after Xmas so that works anyway (no worry about if it'll show up to the right address).


----------



## BigZ12

Chmate said:


> As before, this song crackles pretty much non-stop on the right at higher volumes (iPhone XS as source)—to such a degree that I cannot appreciate the song. Nothing on the Beyerdynamic Amiron Wireless, also using the same phone's Bluetooth.
> 
> Relatedly, my MTWs also make the high-pitched noise on the left between 20 and 120 Hz on your tone generator.


But seriously... I started to think it was something to do with my hearing, or that I have been extremeley unlucky getting two MTWs with the same faults.
So now what? Why is it crackling where no other headsets do, and I guess we have a good theory about the "SBC noise" on the left too? NFMI/SBC?
Do you hear the "SBC noise on the latest Kari B track too? I hear it clearly when the drums are introduced in the song.
I have written an email to Sennheiser. Hopefully I'll get an answer that explains what we are hearing...


----------



## albau

clerkpalmer said:


> Just sucked it up and went back to mw07 after selling my senns here. They sound so damn good and fit so well. I’m going to just use them in the gym price be damned. Sq is addicting. As an aside this is my third pair with noticeable left side hiss. It goes away with music so at this point I’m convinced they all have it...


What a gift to have 60 year old ears!  On my MW07 I don't hear significant left side hiss during silence, for sure it's not "noticeable" to me. Same with my 65t, despite @SomeGuyDude experience with 5 or whatever pairs. With MW07 it could be minor elevated noise floor if I really try to muscle my left ear. Not much different from my wired AKG K701 cans when plugged into a weak source without a proper head-amp.


----------



## clerkpalmer

Having reacquainted myself with the MW07, for those comparing them to the Senns, I think the biggest difference between the 2 is that the MW07 have a real sense of soundstage which is unusual in the TW space.


albau said:


> What a gift to have 60 year old ears!  On my MW07 I don't hear significant left side hiss during silence, for sure it's not "noticeable" to me. Same with my 65t, despite @SomeGuyDude experience with 5 or whatever pairs. With MW07 it could be minor elevated noise floor if I really try to muscle my left ear. Not much different from my wired AKG K701 cans when plugged into a weak source without a proper head-amp.



It probably is an elevated noise floor.  I wouldn't call it significant it's just strange that it's present on left side only on all 3 pairs.  I've stopped worrying about it.  If it was truly the noise floor, I would expect to hear it on both sides.


----------



## mikesider

Does anybody knows where I can find the RHA Trueconnect in Canada? I know Headphone Bar are selling them but they're not giving any refunds.


----------



## dweaver

Check out the apple store, they used to sell RHA and allowed returns


----------



## howdy

For those of you who bought the Sennheiser from their website did they take your money right away if being shipped or waited. They took my money but I have not got a shipping notice yet and now the site says its on backorder. I'm just wondering if I'm getting it soon or January. I'm fine either way just curious to when.


----------



## BrokeSkoolBoi

howdy said:


> For those of you who bought the Sennheiser from their website did they take your money right away if being shipped or waited. They took my money but I have not got a shipping notice yet and now the site says its on backorder. I'm just wondering if I'm getting it soon or January. I'm fine either way just curious to when.




I just got mine Tuesday after a purchase early last week (Tuesday/weds I think). Said it was backordered till Jan though, I'm really not sure why I got them earlier. Maybe the back order isn't that bad? 

Sorry to jack this reply post but I also wanted to post some impressions so far. 


Eq is basically a range of hd6x0 to hd700. A small hill shape is working well for me.

Sibilance is pretty awful on these if you don't Eq it but I like the extra air in the treble if I got em on before 10pm.

Sbc sounds like garbage. 

Detail sounds quite a bit worse than my chain without my Eitr,  so don't expect AptX to help you much there. Also I can't listen to classical on these at a loud volume, the deficiencies and lack of clarity become extremely apparent. 

Transparent hearing means your music/media better be playing damn soft if you want to hear people speaking to you at a normal volume while you listen to content


----------



## BrokeSkoolBoi

Chmate said:


> As before, this song crackles pretty much non-stop on the right at higher volumes (iPhone XS as source)—to such a degree that I cannot appreciate the song. Nothing on the Beyerdynamic Amiron Wireless, also using the same phone's Bluetooth.
> 
> Relatedly, my MTWs also make the high-pitched noise on the left between 20 and 120 Hz on your tone generator.



You don't have a AptX device to test? The excerpt that spotify played of that song sounded great to me.


----------



## dweaver

howdy said:


> For those of you who bought the Sennheiser from their website did they take your money right away if being shipped or waited. They took my money but I have not got a shipping notice yet and now the site says its on backorder. I'm just wondering if I'm getting it soon or January. I'm fine either way just curious to when.


they only took my money the day before mine shipped when they came off backorder.


----------



## dweaver

I listen at around 50-60% so cant comment on high volume listening but listen to everything from classical to jazz to rock and like them with my all genres.fir the only time I hear sibilance is if it's in the song.


----------



## jfvny (Dec 20, 2018)

hifi80sman said:


> According to their website, the Havit G1 support AAC.
> https://www.prohavit.com/g1-series-tws-true-wireless-earbuds/#specs
> 
> They are also branded under the Soundstream name.  I saw them at Fry's Electronics for $99.99.
> https://www.amazon.com/Soundstream-h2GO-Wireless-Earbuds-Charging/dp/B07KCN1R1W


Huh it’s interesting that there’s a rebrand of it already, but not that surprising i guess

Also regarding the AAC, it’s a little weird that they only mention it in some places; it’s not even in their official manual. I’m more than happy with the sound, but I’d take the AAC (and bluetooth 5) claims with a pinch of salt


----------



## korefuji

to Be fair they’re already rebranded from the Kickstarter version, the originals were hakii hgroov the rebrand is havit g1 and now we have a third rebrand. Agreed though that even in official documents there is no mention of aac. They’re good for what they are at the price they are though


----------



## BigZ12 (Dec 20, 2018)

BrokeSkoolBoi said:


> You don't have a AptX device to test? The excerpt that spotify played of that song sounded great to me.


It sounds the same with aptx, and also when using Apple Music.
I think you have to know which noises you look for...
Do you hear the crackle here? Right side. Start at 38 sec.


Did you test the tone generator? Mid/high pitch noise on left side with aptx/aac? (Both with SBC)
http://www.szynalski.com/tone-generator/ (20-50hz)

Edit: Remember, you need some volume to hear it clearly.


----------



## sly_in_the_sky (Dec 20, 2018)

Hi all...

Really disappointed with the connectivity of my MTW... I read that there was issues with the fact that sometimes, even when putting the ears in the case, they remain ON instead of being in OFF mode... I resetted the ears by touching the two faceplates, the ears in the charging case but nothing.. the problem remains... I also restarted the app but now it even has problem to pair correctly with the phone... I have to pair it manualy but to shut them down, I have to close the bluetooth... Is there another solution?

Thank you all..


----------



## BigZ12

sly_in_the_sky said:


> Hi all...
> 
> Really disappointed with the connectivity of my MTW... I read that there was issues with the fact that sometimes, even when putting the ears in the case, they remain ON instead of being in OFF mode... I resetted the ears by touching the two faceplates, the ears in the charging case but nothing.. the problem remains... I also restarted the app but now it even has problem to pair correctly with the phone... I have to pair it manualy but to shut them down, I have to close the bluetooth... Is there another solution?
> 
> Thank you all..


I would like to help, but I haven't experienced the issues you are having.
The resetting you say, by touching the two faceplates... when touching those two together, you only set the buds in pairing mode.
Have you tried resetting the buds within the app, and deleting them from the bluetooth list. Then pair them, and registering the LE_Momentum TW with the app again?


----------



## sly_in_the_sky

Thank you BigZ12, 

Yess I tried to reset both, buds and app but nothing... the system don't understand anymore the fact that when I put the bud in the case, it must shut down...


----------



## BigZ12

sly_in_the_sky said:


> Thank you BigZ12,
> 
> Yess I tried to reset both, buds and app but nothing... the system don't understand anymore the fact that when I put the bud in the case, it must shut down...


Not good 
You need to contact Sennheiser then, I guess...


----------



## sly_in_the_sky

I contacted the shop were I bought it and will change it...

I noticed one thing, the led in the charging case dont work... so... I wonder if the problem is not the charging case not working properly and not sending the message that the Iem is in the case...


----------



## firewatersun

sly_in_the_sky said:


> I contacted the shop were I bought it and will change it...
> 
> I noticed one thing, the led in the charging case dont work... so... I wonder if the problem is not the charging case not working properly and not sending the message that the Iem is in the case...



This happened to me when my case was completely drained of battery - the MTWs don't recognise that they are in the case unless it is charged, hence your problems with them not disconnecting. If your case doesn't have an LED even when you press the button, I would assume something is wrong with the case!



BigZ12 said:


> I would like to help, but I haven't experienced the issues you are having.
> The resetting you say, by touching the two faceplates... when touching those two together, you only set the buds in pairing mode.
> Have you tried resetting the buds within the app, and deleting them from the bluetooth list. Then pair them, and registering the LE_Momentum TW with the app again?


I think the manual says holding both faceplates while they are seated in the case will reset (it's like 10 or 30 seconds or something)


----------



## alchemical

Enjoying the MW07 more and more. Would still love any compatible Comply tip recommendations if anyone’s been using them with.


----------



## sly_in_the_sky (Dec 20, 2018)

firewatersun said:


> This happened to me when my case was completely drained of battery - the MTWs don't recognise that they are in the case unless it is charged, hence your problems with them not disconnecting. If your case doesn't have an LED even when you press the button, I would assume something is wrong with the case!
> 
> 
> I think the manual says holding both faceplates while they are seated in the case will reset (it's like 10 or 30 seconds or something)



In fact there was an issue wit the case, I plugged it for charging and the case recognise now the IEM when hey are in the case... so perhaps I didn't remember that I was at the end of the battery life of the case but this is not normal I guess... because if you are at the end of the charging energy remaining in the case and your IEM is still at 50% for example, putting your IEM in the drained energy case, it wont recognise that you putted your iem inside and so will remain ON and you will drain the energy remaining in the buds for nothing.... nonsense.... I don't know if it's the same with other sets and if it's a common technical limit, I don't remember to have had this issue with my 65T+charging case.


----------



## dweaver

sly_in_the_sky said:


> I contacted the shop were I bought it and will change it...
> 
> I noticed one thing, the led in the charging case dont work... so... I wonder if the problem is not the charging case not working properly and not sending the message that the Iem is in the case...


When you put the IEMs in the case have you you immediately touch both faceplates at the same time for 6 seconds. This is supposed to reset them. Which is different than pairing them which is done while wearing them.

I had these issues on day 3 of owning my pair. I thought they might be defective. But my case turned out to be drained. I have since switched to a different charger and so far had no more issues. So am thinking the case may be sensitive to the charger an issues I have ran in to with other headphones such as my MDR 1000XM3. I am currently using the Samsung charger that came with my phone and have not had an isssue the past day and a half. Will post if this changes or I have a problem again.


----------



## sly_in_the_sky (Dec 20, 2018)

dweaver said:


> When you put the IEMs in the case have you you immediately touch both faceplates at the same time for 6 seconds. This is supposed to reset them. Which is different than pairing them which is done while wearing them.
> 
> I had these issues on day 3 of owning my pair. I thought they might be defective. But my case turned out to be drained. I have since switched to a different charger and so far had no more issues. So am thinking the case may be sensitive to the charger an issues I have ran in to with other headphones such as my MDR 1000XM3. I am currently using the Samsung charger that came with my phone and have not had an isssue the past day and a half. Will post if this changes or I have a problem again.



Yes I did a reset as you mentionned now finally it's ok and everything is recognised and well paired.

Thank you for your advices.


----------



## dweaver

Glad it helped. I was getting desperate when it happened to me the first time. Took a thorough read of the manual to learn about that reset feature. I hope I dont have to use it very often but at least it works . 

I have noticed this seems to happen if I take them out of the case and put them back fairly quickly so wonder if it might be good to wait a few minutes before putting back in the case after using them. I might play around and see if I can replicate the need to reset them so people will know what triggers this issue.


----------



## Rickyearl

sly_in_the_sky said:


> Hi all...
> 
> Really disappointed with the connectivity of my MTW... I read that there was issues with the fact that sometimes, even when putting the ears in the case, they remain ON instead of being in OFF mode... I resetted the ears by touching the two faceplates, the ears in the charging case but nothing.. the problem remains... I also restarted the app but now it even has problem to pair correctly with the phone... I have to pair it manualy but to shut them down, I have to close the bluetooth... Is there another solution?
> 
> Thank you all..




Mine do this.  See a few pages back.  When I put them in the case it’s like they don’t notice and keep playing.  If I plug the USBC into the case it always fixes this.  

Weirdly, sometimes the empty case won’t charge with USBC either.  When I put them back in the case, that’s fixed.


----------



## sly_in_the_sky

Rickyearl said:


> Mine do this.  See a few pages back.  When I put them in the case it’s like they don’t notice and keep playing.  If I plug the USBC into the case it always fixes this.
> 
> .



It's exactly what happened to me... and I don't think that the case was really drained... it's like the case bugged... Hope they will fix it with a new case if it's a hardware problem.


----------



## BrokeSkoolBoi (Dec 20, 2018)

BigZ12 said:


> It sounds the same with aptx, and also when using Apple Music.
> I think you have to know which noises you look for...
> Do you hear the crackle here? Right side. Start at 38 sec.
> 
> ...



I was going to say yes but it actually sounds like there is some noise occurring in the background to me that sounds like crackling. Unfortunately I don't have my home system to test it on, however you do hear the faint electronic sound after the rising pitch as well right? It sounds like there is more noise layered on top of that as well




dweaver said:


> I listen at around 50-60% so cant comment on high volume listening but listen to everything from classical to jazz to rock and like them with my all genres.fir the only time I hear sibilance is if it's in the song.



I listen above 60% pretty much all the time, but in your defense I have been using my hd600 and haven't really had to deal with sibilance while living my best life ￼￼


----------



## dweaver

OK, my MTW was plugged in all night and the IEMs were in the case and the LED was green. Got to train and the IEMs would not respond. Tried the reset and nothing. Hit the LED button and the case is dead.

So I will charge the case when I get to work. But I am now inclined to think something is wrong. I will contact support to see if there anything coming up in regards to a firmware update and if not may end up sending these back.

It's a shame because I really do like their sound and they actually get 4 hours of battery life as advertised. I will be updating my review with this new information as well and adjusting my score to reflect the issue I am experiencing.


----------



## albau

alchemical said:


> Enjoying the MW07 more and more. Would still love any compatible Comply tip recommendations if anyone’s been using them with.


Same sentiment here about enjoying MW07. I use Spinfits 100Z with them. Also tried Compys by cutting off the top so they fit in the case. Didn't like the sound, as usual with Complys they exaggerate bass and muffle highs.


----------



## dweaver

OK, got to the office and plugged in the case, it flashed yellow for less than 20 minutes and went green. Pulled the IEMs out and they worked without issue with 100% battery life.

So obviously the case was really drained and the IEMs not drained either but both acted like they were drained. So this is definitely either a defect with my unit or a bug with the product as a whole. I will contact Sennheiser support and see what they say.


----------



## nc8000

dweaver said:


> OK, got to the office and plugged in the case, it flashed yellow for less than 20 minutes and went green. Pulled the IEMs out and they worked without issue with 100% battery life.
> 
> So obviously the case was really drained and the IEMs not drained either but both acted like they were drained. So this is definitely either a defect with my unit or a bug with the product as a whole. I will contact Sennheiser support and see what they say.



Sounds like the same problem as with the E8. Even if the buds are fully charged they will not turn on if the case is fully dischargef


----------



## clerkpalmer

albau said:


> Same sentiment here about enjoying MW07. I use Spinfits 100Z with them. Also tried Compys by cutting off the top so they fit in the case. Didn't like the sound, as usual with Complys they exaggerate bass and muffle highs.


Do the spin fits fit in the case?


----------



## clerkpalmer

nc8000 said:


> Sounds like the same problem as with the E8. Even if the buds are fully charged they will not turn on if the case is fully dischargef



Common problem with all tw. The case acts as the mechanism to power them down. If the case is dead the headphones won’t turn off.


----------



## dweaver

nc8000 said:


> Sounds like the same problem as with the E8. Even if the buds are fully charged they will not turn on if the case is fully dischargef


the only problem was that the case was plugged in and showed green before I left the house so should have been fully charged.


----------



## albau

clerkpalmer said:


> Do the spin fits fit in the case?


Yes, no problems.


----------



## nc8000

clerkpalmer said:


> Common problem with all tw. The case acts as the mechanism to power them down. If the case is dead the headphones won’t turn off.



With the E8 they do turn off but not on


----------



## albau (Dec 20, 2018)

clerkpalmer said:


> Common problem with all tw. The case acts as the mechanism to power them down. If the case is dead the headphones won’t turn off.


I dunno. Happened to have yesterday fully discharged 65t case. The case light went red (when you open/close the lid) in the evening, but I forgot to charge it since I mostly use MW07 nowadays. Today morning even the red light wasn't there, so I decided to check the buds. They obviously still had some juice in them because they connected and sounded fine. Then I put them back into supposedly dead case and each bud still blinked red as normal, signifying that they're switching off. Then I waited a bit and took them from the case again. Still switched on and connected. Go figure. Probably Jabras somehow know that they're in the case even if it has no juice. Maybe capacitors on the contacts, or in-bud sensors know typical position within the case? Only proves that 65t as a whole are the best designed TW package out there.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

nc8000 said:


> With the E8 they do turn off but not on



That was my understanding. If they hit the connectors they'll power down even if the case isn't able to charge. Besides, the case will always have just enough charge in it to go red and show it's unable to charge.

Also just chiming in to reiterate how much I love the e8s.


----------



## Rickyearl

sly_in_the_sky said:


> It's exactly what happened to me... and I don't think that the case was really drained... it's like the case bugged... Hope they will fix it with a new case if it's a hardware problem.



Yeah, it doesn't matter if my case is drained, partially charged or fully charged.  It just happens.  Then plug in the USBC and they stop playing and start charging.  Not all the time - trying to isolate what I cdo when it happens to see if it's a kind of repeatable pattern (like it only happens when I put the R one in first then wait too long to put L in) but so far no luck.

What I still can't do at all is charge the case without them in it.  That's one of the two things that just doesn't work - the other being the transparent mode while music is playing the background rather than silence.


----------



## Rickyearl

SomeGuyDude said:


> That was my understanding. If they hit the connectors they'll power down even if the case isn't able to charge. Besides, the case will always have just enough charge in it to go red and show it's unable to charge.
> 
> Also just chiming in to reiterate how much I love the e8s.



OH - I have an update on my E8 experience.  Yesterday evening I was cleaning out my daughter's closet and I was wearing the E8s while I did it, trying to listen detailed and figure out why mine sound so different. Anyway, I found her old 1st-2nd grade earmuffs.  They were very tiny and cute.  Because I'm that guy, I put them on my head.  The earmuffs "mushed" the top of my ears against my head and the bottom part of my ear moved out away from my head as a result.  They also pulled my ears back away from my face toward the back of my head.  The E8s suddenly sounded much more bassy and full.  Took them off, back to the same thinner, more clinical sound. It was amazing and re-creatable each time I fiddled with the earmuffs.    I could do it by playing with moving my ears around with my fingers, but when I let go it went back.  Unfortunately, spinfits, spiral dots, complys and regular silicones could not recreate the effect.

If you look at the last pic in my post comparing the Senns and E8s physically (https://www.head-fi.org/threads/goi...re-we-there-yet.861024/page-180#post-14640561), you'll see that the Senns have a more pronounced angle "up" at the tip.  

I think that may be the difference.  My ears are just shaped wrong.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

Rickyearl said:


> OH - I have an update on my E8 experience.  Yesterday evening I was cleaning out my daughter's closet and I was wearing the E8s while I did it, trying to listen detailed and figure out why mine sound so different. Anyway, I found her old 1st-2nd grade earmuffs.  They were very tiny and cute.  Because I'm that guy, I put them on my head.  The earmuffs "mushed" the top of my ears against my head and the bottom part of my ear moved out away from my head as a result.  They also pulled my ears back away from my face toward the back of my head.  The E8s suddenly sounded much more bassy and full.  Took them off, back to the same thinner, more clinical sound. It was amazing and re-creatable each time I fiddled with the earmuffs.    I could do it by playing with moving my ears around with my fingers, but when I let go it went back.  Unfortunately, spinfits, spiral dots, complys and regular silicones could not recreate the effect.
> 
> If you look at the last pic in my post comparing the Senns and E8s physically (https://www.head-fi.org/threads/goi...re-we-there-yet.861024/page-180#post-14640561), you'll see that the Senns have a more pronounced angle "up" at the tip.
> 
> I think that may be the difference.  My ears are just shaped wrong.



I 100% can believe this is the case. The e8's have a... peculiar fit that works perfectly for me but then I seem to be blessed with the world's most generic ear canals so medium sized tips on literally every universal IEM work perfectly on me.

HOWEVER, as to that "peculiar" fit, I've noticed that no matter what I do, the e8 will "drift" after a little while. They rotate a tad and won't sit as deeply, likely the total lack of "wing" or other bracing feature that makes the MW07 such a great fit. For me, this doesn't make one honk of a difference but given how loathe they are to sit in a deeply-inserted position I absolutely could believe they fall out of the right spot for a ton of people.


----------



## nc8000

SomeGuyDude said:


> I 100% can believe this is the case. The e8's have a... peculiar fit that works perfectly for me but then I seem to be blessed with the world's most generic ear canals so medium sized tips on literally every universal IEM work perfectly on me.
> 
> HOWEVER, as to that "peculiar" fit, I've noticed that no matter what I do, the e8 will "drift" after a little while. They rotate a tad and won't sit as deeply, likely the total lack of "wing" or other bracing feature that makes the MW07 such a great fit. For me, this doesn't make one honk of a difference but given how loathe they are to sit in a deeply-inserted position I absolutely could believe they fall out of the right spot for a ton of people.



I get a good fit with large SpinFit tips, could not get propper seal with the stock tips, but yes they do wander and have to be pushed back in from time to time if I’m moving while wearing them, the left is more prone as my left ear canal is larger than my right


----------



## Rickyearl

SomeGuyDude said:


> I 100% can believe this is the case. The e8's have a... peculiar fit that works perfectly for me but then I seem to be blessed with the world's most generic ear canals so medium sized tips on literally every universal IEM work perfectly on me.
> 
> HOWEVER, as to that "peculiar" fit, I've noticed that no matter what I do, the e8 will "drift" after a little while. They rotate a tad and won't sit as deeply, likely the total lack of "wing" or other bracing feature that makes the MW07 such a great fit. For me, this doesn't make one honk of a difference but given how loathe they are to sit in a deeply-inserted position I absolutely could believe they fall out of the right spot for a ton of people.





nc8000 said:


> I get a good fit with large SpinFit tips, could not get propper seal with the stock tips, but yes they do wander and have to be pushed back in from time to time if I’m moving while wearing them, the left is more prone as my left ear canal is larger than my right



So, since I'm not interested in a surgical procedure, is there anything to be done but to move on here?  I really like the way the E8s look, the way the case works, the way it looks, etc. better than the Senns.  Pretty much everything is better on the E8s except the sound.  Kind of a shame.


----------



## hifi80sman

SomeGuyDude said:


> That was my understanding. If they hit the connectors they'll power down even if the case isn't able to charge. Besides, the case will always have just enough charge in it to go red and show it's unable to charge.
> 
> Also just chiming in to reiterate how much I love the e8s.


Same here.  In the same league as the MW07 sound-wise but with the battery life of a champ.  Amazon had them yesterday for $192 AND 10% off if you used your Amazon Store Card.  They are back up to $220 right now without the 10% promo.  I priced matched them at Best Buy for $192, but I was OK forgoing the additional 10%, since I prefer the ability to directly return in the store same-day.

These are good enough for enjoyable listening sessions.  Gotta say, I love not having wires.  Streaming from Apple Music (AAC) over the XS Max to the E8 sounds great.  I get the moves like Jagger.


----------



## Rickyearl

dweaver said:


> the only problem was that the case was plugged in and showed green before I left the house so should have been fully charged.



My Senns (both the IEMs and the case) lose power remarkably fast when in transit - any time that it's not just sitting still on a table or desktop.  I don't know why.  I can charge them overnight, stick them in my briefcase, then at work the case and the buds are 60% or so.  It's a 20 minute drive and a 5-10 minute walk.

In contrast, on a weekend I charge overnight and then disconnect and leave them on my nightstand.  Come back many hours later and everything's 100% or close to it.

Wondering if the E8's elastic band is even more useful than I thought.


----------



## hifi80sman

Rickyearl said:


> OH - I have an update on my E8 experience.  Yesterday evening I was cleaning out my daughter's closet and I was wearing the E8s while I did it, trying to listen detailed and figure out why mine sound so different. Anyway, I found her old 1st-2nd grade earmuffs.  They were very tiny and cute.  Because I'm that guy, I put them on my head.  The earmuffs "mushed" the top of my ears against my head and the bottom part of my ear moved out away from my head as a result.  They also pulled my ears back away from my face toward the back of my head.  The E8s suddenly sounded much more bassy and full.  Took them off, back to the same thinner, more clinical sound. It was amazing and re-creatable each time I fiddled with the earmuffs.    I could do it by playing with moving my ears around with my fingers, but when I let go it went back.  Unfortunately, spinfits, spiral dots, complys and regular silicones could not recreate the effect.
> 
> If you look at the last pic in my post comparing the Senns and E8s physically (https://www.head-fi.org/threads/goi...re-we-there-yet.861024/page-180#post-14640561), you'll see that the Senns have a more pronounced angle "up" at the tip.
> 
> I think that may be the difference.  My ears are just shaped wrong.


I can legit tell you my first pair sounded different and it was not fit, seal, etc.  You should be able to tell if properly inserted by ear pressure, ambient sounds, etc.  If you over-pressurize, it will also affect the sound.  As SomeGuyDude has indicated in this thread, the E8 does take some trial and error for the proper fit, but it seems to fit most people eventually.

It sounds like you may have a deep, perhaps wider ear canal, so I would recommend some slightly longer, wider ear tips.  At the very least, I would go with some longer ear tips.  My Tunai Drum has some nice deeper ear tips that I threw on the E8 and they work fantastic.


----------



## Sharkhunter (Dec 20, 2018)

alchemical said:


> Enjoying the MW07 more and more. Would still love any compatible Comply tip recommendations if anyone’s been using them with.


i would recommend symbio w tips. Comply true pro grip r whatever the name is.. r available in one size and it doesnt fit me. try looking for any comply tips that u may already own..

edit: spell checked.


----------



## dweaver

Rickyearl said:


> My Senns (both the IEMs and the case) lose power remarkably fast when in transit - any time that it's not just sitting still on a table or desktop.  I don't know why.  I can charge them overnight, stick them in my briefcase, then at work the case and the buds are 60% or so.  It's a 20 minute drive and a 5-10 minute walk.
> 
> In contrast, on a weekend I charge overnight and then disconnect and leave them on my nightstand.  Come back many hours later and everything's 100% or close to it.
> 
> Wondering if the E8's elastic band is even more useful than I thought.


Hmmm interesting, I wonder if the connectors pop loose and either dont reseat properly or cause a discharge every time. I will try putting some padding in there to help them stay in place when traveling and see if that helps.


----------



## Rickyearl

hifi80sman said:


> I can legit tell you my first pair sounded different and it was not fit, seal, etc.  You should be able to tell if properly inserted by ear pressure, ambient sounds, etc.  If you over-pressurize, it will also affect the sound.  As SomeGuyDude has indicated in this thread, the E8 does take some trial and error for the proper fit, but it seems to fit most people eventually.
> 
> It sounds like you may have a deep, perhaps wider ear canal, so I would recommend some slightly longer, wider ear tips.  At the very least, I would go with some longer ear tips.  My Tunai Drum has some nice deeper ear tips that I threw on the E8 and they work fantastic.



Any recommendations for longer tips?  I don't own the Tunai Drums.  I tried the "longer" (regular size for non TW) complys, as well as spinfits, spiral dots, and the stock silicones for both the Senns and the E8.  None of those are particularly long.  There's a spinfit that says it's "Perfect for those hard to fit ears, and earphones with awkward insertion angles" but it has a 4.5mm core, which is larger than the E8's 4mm.  Don't want to visit the clinic to have a tip removed with tweezers.


----------



## alchemical

albau said:


> Same sentiment here about enjoying MW07. I use Spinfits 100Z with them. Also tried Compys by cutting off the top so they fit in the case. Didn't like the sound, as usual with Complys they exaggerate bass and muffle highs.


Thanks for the suggestion - going to order some in.


----------



## alchemical

Sharkhunter said:


> i would recommend symbio w tips. Comply true pro grip r whatever the name is.. is available in on size and it doesnt fit be. try looking for any comply tips that u may alway own..


Cheers for the reply - I’d forgotten about the Symbios, will try and get hold of some. Only Complys I currently have are Jaybird series, but the bore is too large. I like the idea of the best of both worlds with the Symbios though.


----------



## battosai

turbobb said:


> I have a pair of cheapy TWS inbound that are supposed to be BT 5.0. Does anyone know how to check the BT version of the connected device on Android? I'm aware of Dev Options but that only shows the codecs and not the actual BT version.
> 
> TIA!


Which one did you get ?


----------



## SomeGuyDude

Sharkhunter said:


> i would recommend symbio w tips. Comply true pro grip r whatever the name is.. r available in one size and it doesnt fit me. try looking for any comply tips that u may already own..
> 
> edit: spell checked.



Those hybrid thingies look interesting in general. What's the effect on the sound? I'd be interested in picking some up for the e8. I like the ease of insertion and cleaning for silicone but the isolation and warmth of foam, this seems ideal.


----------



## hifi80sman

Rickyearl said:


> Any recommendations for longer tips?  I don't own the Tunai Drums.  I tried the "longer" (regular size for non TW) complys, as well as spinfits, spiral dots, and the stock silicones for both the Senns and the E8.  None of those are particularly long.  There's a spinfit that says it's "Perfect for those hard to fit ears, and earphones with awkward insertion angles" but it has a 4.5mm core, which is larger than the E8's 4mm.  Don't want to visit the clinic to have a tip removed with tweezers.


You're better off getting some kind of random assortment and use the "fit or acquit" method.
https://www.amazon.com/Large-Earphones-replacement-earphone-assortment/dp/B00GCS4MN0/


----------



## turbobb

battosai said:


> Which one did you get ?


It's called EANCRYS TWS (I think their name is a pun on INCREASE... -_-).  $21 on big A, main reason I got it aside from price is that it's rated IPX7.


----------



## hifi80sman

turbobb said:


> It's called EANCRYS TWS (I think their name is a pun on INCREASE... -_-).  $21 on big A, main reason I got it aside from price is that it's rated IPX7.


What's your feedback on it?  Most of those Chi-Fi units I've purchased (and returned) have had horrible connection issues between the earbuds and a high noise floor.


----------



## firewatersun

dweaver said:


> Hmmm interesting, I wonder if the connectors pop loose and either dont reseat properly or cause a discharge every time. I will try putting some padding in there to help them stay in place when traveling and see if that helps.



More than once my MTWs kept playing while in the case (got phone calls once where I had a tiny voice yelling from my pocket as they were still connected) The magnets don't seem to pull them in enough, or maybe they can get misaligned easily. They definitely occasionally pop loose on the move - it's rare, but does happen occasionally


----------



## Rickyearl

firewatersun said:


> More than once my MTWs kept playing while in the case (got phone calls once where I had a tiny voice yelling from my pocket as they were still connected) The magnets don't seem to pull them in enough, or maybe they can get misaligned easily. They definitely occasionally pop loose on the move - it's rare, but does happen occasionally



@dweaver and I talked about similar issues above.  I have them sometimes not "notice" they're in the case and keep playing.  I fix that by plugging the USBC into the case.  Also can't get the case to charge without them in it.  Still no fix for that.

Another issue is that we both see big drops in the charge level while they're sitting in the case when it's not plugged into USBC - for me I see it when the case is being transported but not when the case is just sitting still.  My best guess is that they get jostled just enough that they're not connected  so they're draining when they should be charging.   

I think the case has to be sitting horizontal on a flat surface for the connections to work right.  Funny, because in testing with a paperclip the magnets on the MTW case are a lot stronger that on the E8.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

Hm. If the magnets are stronger, it definitely sounds like either an alignment issue or something ****y on the MTW's side.


----------



## firewatersun

Rickyearl said:


> @dweaver and I talked about similar issues above.  I have them sometimes not "notice" they're in the case and keep playing.  I fix that by plugging the USBC into the case.  Also can't get the case to charge without them in it.  Still no fix for that.
> 
> Another issue is that we both see big drops in the charge level while they're sitting in the case when it's not plugged into USBC - for me I see it when the case is being transported but not when the case is just sitting still.  My best guess is that they get jostled just enough that they're not connected  so they're draining when they should be charging.
> 
> I think the case has to be sitting horizontal on a flat surface for the connections to work right.  Funny, because in testing with a paperclip the magnets on the MTW case are a lot stronger that on the E8.



Mine definitely charged without the earbuds in - might be worth requesting an exchange from Sennheiser?


----------



## howdy

Jamming to the MW07 and listening to one of favorite test tracks which is Korn and the song Blind. It just sounds amazing, the bass is deep yet controlled and the soundstage is amazing! Love the sound of these. The sennheiser comes tomorrow can't wait to compare.  I hope they are close because the extended battery life will be nice.


----------



## chinmie

SomeGuyDude said:


> Those hybrid thingies look interesting in general. What's the effect on the sound? I'd be interested in picking some up for the e8. I like the ease of insertion and cleaning for silicone but the isolation and warmth of foam, this seems ideal.



just be wary that the symbio is a bit bigger than the regular silicone and feels a bit fuller/tighter than regular foams. i ended up pulling the foam off my symbios (the silicone is great though, velvety feel and grippy) and simply just ordered the symbio peel on my next purchase


----------



## dweaver

I think my MTW case has charged without the iems in the case.


----------



## Churchill Wu

For those with the MTWs, how are the stock eartips? If there are better alternatives, which ones are recommended that fit the case? Thinking spinfit cp100z, acoustune aet 07/08, symbio w etc. Thanks!


----------



## firewatersun (Dec 21, 2018)

howdy said:


> Jamming to the MW07 and listening to one of favorite test tracks which is Korn and the song Blind. It just sounds amazing, the bass is deep yet controlled and the soundstage is amazing! Love the sound of these. The sennheiser comes tomorrow can't wait to compare.  I hope they are close because the extended battery life will be nice.



Would love to hear your take on the comparison when you get a chance!


----------



## dweaver

The MTW has a very short stem and unusual tips. I tried the AKG tips of my N200 on them and they slid off. I am going to try some other tips when I have time. But I think a lot of tips will not work. But maybe others will have more info.


----------



## chinmie

dweaver said:


> The MTW has a very short stem and unusual tips. I tried the AKG tips of my N200 on them and they slid off. I am going to try some other tips when I have time. But I think a lot of tips will not work. But maybe others will have more info.



if it's not troubling, can you post the picture of the stem?


----------



## dweaver

Here you go...


----------



## dweaver

OK, the more I think about the 2 instances I had major issues with the MTW and case seeming to be dead. Both times I used the MTW in bed and then put in the case in the middle of the night and both times the case was unceremoniously lowered/dropped onto the floor with no attention to position or being bumped. Last night I just took an extra couple seconds to place it properly on the floor and no issues today at all. I also make sure it is place right side up in my pocket as well.

If after a few days of careful attention my issues do not come back I will update my review to reflect that the case requires a bit more attention and adjust the score accordingly.


----------



## hifi80sman (Dec 21, 2018)

Short impressions on the Anker Zolo Liberty+:

PROS
-  Nice metal case.  See below for size comparison with the E8.
-  Battery life right about as estimated at 3.5 hours (40% volume).
-  Very "balanced" sound to my ears.  All frequencies play nice with each other.
-  Transparency is unexpectedly good (streaming via AAC, Apple Music, iPhone Xs Max).
-  Comfortable.
-  Earbuds magnetically attach when placed into the case and won't just fall out when opened.
-  App control.
-  Good mic, clear calls.  Not quite Bose level, but definitely can be used for the office.
-  IPX5 and good for the gym.

CONS
-  Micro USB
-  Earbuds a litter larger than the E8 and getting a good fit requires some trial & error (although I was able to get a good fit eventually).
-  No volume control.
-  Changing tracks requires holing the button (R fwd, L rev) down for 1 second, but if you do it too long, it turns on ambient mics.
-  EQ is made up of only 5 presets.

Overall, these are a "major, major go".  I got these on sale for $75 and feel they are worth every penny.


----------



## mikp

For info.. the QCC3026 chip has issues qith win 10 from version 1809. Tested on two machines with same intel bluetooth and drivers, but one is 1803.

On 1803 it works, on 1809 it connects as voice and drivers fails to install.


----------



## howdy

Got the Senns today and listening to them now. These fit me perfectly, with the large tips they provide a great seal. My first listen (With Korn of course) is wow, there is a lot bass! These hit like full size headphones, I'll definitely turn the bass down a bit.


----------



## hifi80sman

howdy said:


> Got the Senns today and listening to them now. These fit me perfectly, with the large tips they provide a great seal. My first listen (With Korn of course) is wow, there is a lot bass! These hit like full size headphones, I'll definitely turn the bass down a bit.


Show off.  

Interested in a comparison with the 3 big boys you got there.  I have the E8 and had the MW07, so trying to gauge if I should order the MTW.


----------



## howdy

hifi80sman said:


> Show off.
> 
> Interested in a comparison with the 3 big boys you got there.  I have the E8 and had the MW07, so trying to gauge if I should order the MTW.


It depends on your sound sig. It's still early but I think the MW07 sound "better". But there just different. I know this is a worthless comparison but I've only listened to about 5 songs so far with the MTWs. So far the MTWs sound more like the E8s with more bass. Both have great clarity but the MTWs have more of a full size headphone sound.
I'll try to give a better comparison between the 3 over the Xmas weekend.


----------



## dweaver (Dec 21, 2018)

howdy said:


> Got the Senns today and listening to them now. These fit me perfectly, with the large tips they provide a great seal. My first listen (With Korn of course) is wow, there is a lot bass! These hit like full size headphones, I'll definitely turn the bass down a bit.


The senn apps EQ is easy as all get out to use and will actually save your EQ setting on the MTW so will then apply to other sources according to Sennheiser even without the app. I set it to slightly the right and above center and haven't felt the need to adjust it again aside from playing around testing.

Dang the MTW case is a giant amongst Liliputians LOL. I dont mind the case though, I like its textured feel.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

hifi80sman said:


> Show off.
> 
> Interested in a comparison with the 3 big boys you got there.  I have the E8 and had the MW07, so trying to gauge if I should order the MTW.



Those do seem like the 3 titans right now. I kinda hope the result is that they're all great and there isn't a winner because oh god my wallet this holiday season...


----------



## hifi80sman (Dec 21, 2018)

SomeGuyDude said:


> Those do seem like the 3 titans right now. I kinda hope the result is that they're all great and there isn't a winner because oh god my wallet this holiday season...


Meaning your wallet is "phat" and you're a "baller"?  I have to roll my wallet around in a baby stroller.


----------



## howdy

I actually asked my wife if I could get the Senns as I was trying to be polite and she said do what you want, I don't care. So I said ok I will. But I made it my B-day and Xmas present to myself. She didn't seem mad but we'll see.


----------



## hifi80sman

howdy said:


> I actually asked my wife if I could get the Senns as I was trying to be polite and she said do what you want, I don't care. So I said ok I will. But I made it my B-day and Xmas present to myself. She didn't seem mad but we'll see.


LOL!  So true.  They be like "You have, like, 20 headphones, do you really need one more?"  Uh, duh, yeah, I do!  I can always beg for food.  Have you seen anyone beg for headphones?  Exactly.


----------



## Tommy C

howdy said:


> I actually asked my wife if I could get the Senns as I was trying to be polite and she said do what you want, I don't care. So I said ok I will. But I made it my B-day and Xmas present to myself. She didn't seem mad but we'll see.


LOL good luck with that. You probably know by now, when women use certain key words you’re on borrowed time!


----------



## howdy

hifi80sman said:


> LOL!  So true.  They be like "You have, like, 20 headphones, do you really need one more?"  Uh, duh, yeah, I do!  I can always beg for food.  Have you seen anyone beg for headphones?  Exactly.


Thats really funny and all so true. Hopefully no more good wireless things come along as I did "promise" I won't get any more audio things for awhile. I actually want to get another tattoo soon and those aren't cheap either.


----------



## unfunk

Do any MW07 users notice a physical rattling noise coming from the left earbud? Its as if there's a loose part in there.
I first noticed it while running with the MW07. I can also hear it now just by shaking the left earbud vigorously beside my ear, so its not related to the sound output.
The right earbud is fine with no rattling noises.

Wonder if its just my unit, or if all units have this going on. Might need to exchange mine.


----------



## hifi80sman

unfunk said:


> Do any MW07 users notice a physical rattling noise coming from the left earbud? Its as if there's a loose part in there.
> I first noticed it while running with the MW07. I can also hear it now just by shaking the left earbud vigorously beside my ear, so its not related to the sound output.
> The right earbud is fine with no rattling noises.
> 
> Wonder if its just my unit, or if all units have this going on. Might need to exchange mine.


Exchange.  Never noticed anything like that with mine.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

hifi80sman said:


> Meaning your wallet is "phat" and you're a "baller"?  I have to roll my wallet around in a baby stroller.



LMAO more like I have the e8 and I'd like to hear that the others aren't a significant upgrade so I don't feel the need to upgrade. I'm almost glad Best Buy for some reason won't actually stock it in store.


----------



## Pro-Jules

Holy grail for me would be 

ear buds like Bose StayHear + LDAC + 10 band eq (in a companion app)

I would settle for Aptx HD 

Right now I am using an Ear Studio ES100 (LDAC) and Bose QC20 it's a good combo.  The eq in the ES100 is great.


----------



## sly_in_the_sky (Dec 22, 2018)

The Senn’s sound is really addictive... Realy crisp high, detailed, open, dynamic, balanced (with eq)... Really happy with it... speaking about sound, a big ulgrade from 65T... And better to my ears than the E8. In comparison, the Senns are a little bit fuller, more detailled and have better treble... Sometimes E8 sound harsch or sibillants.


----------



## howdy

sly_in_the_sky said:


> The Senn’s sound is really addictive... Realy crisp high, detailed, open, dynamic, balanced (with eq)... Really happy with it... speaking about sound, a big ulgrade from 65T... And better to my ears than the E8. In comparison, the Senns are a little bit fuller, more detailled and have better treble... Sometimes E8 sound harsch or sibillants.


I agree with everything you just said. They are very addictive and the comfort I think is a little bit better they have close to the same as the E8s but these being a bit bigger fit my big ears and head. They do not stick out at all and look good.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

BTW for rock/metal fans looking to test albums out, Rage Against the Machine's self-titled is highly regarded for being an especially well recorded album. It'll showcase pretty much everything you need.


----------



## howdy

Went to the Gym today and always use my Jaybird Runs and man these things where cutting out all the time today, well only the left side. Ive been using these at the gym for awhile and never had such issues. 
@SomeGuyDude 
 few more good ones are 
Korn "Remember who you are" the whole album is awesome!
Dave Mathews band is always recorded so good. Even people who don't like him listen to and are amazed and how good the recording is. And another one of my test ones is Breaking Benjamin and the Song I will not Bow.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

For sure. Ross Robinson sometimes really knocks it out of the park with his production! 

A downside to liking extreme metal is the sheer number of albums I have that are produced like total garbage LOL. Sometimes I think I get the headphones I do so I can mitigate bad production and enjoy the music.


----------



## howdy

These Senns are Seriously addicting! They play all songs so well. I hate to say it so early but I think I prefer these over the MW07.


----------



## dweaver

Really enjoy my MTW as well. Unfortunately I am sending them in for repair. They suddenly stopped connecting to my phone. So there was something going wrong. Just waiting for Sennheiser to let me know how to handle the RMA.


----------



## turbobb

hifi80sman said:


> What's your feedback on it?  Most of those Chi-Fi units I've purchased (and returned) have had horrible connection issues between the earbuds and a high noise floor.


It's been a year since I last tried some Chi-Fi TWS and I gotta say these two are much improved in terms of ease of pairing/connection. I just got another in (Aermoo B3 also IPX7) and it is really an eye opener. The SQ is really good despite being only SBC with rich sound and a slight bass bump. Range on both are not bad... wondering if it's due to BT5.0 (speaking of which, do you (or anyone reading this) know how to check if it is in fact utilizing BT 5.0 (again I'm aware of Dev options but that only shows Codec, not BT version). Need more time with both and will post impressions but as for the Eancrys, I just couldn't get a good seal on the left ear with any of their tips as well as some extras I had lying around so I gave them to my wife and it fits her perfectly (the IPX7 did live it up to expectation, took shower with them on and no issues or drop outs). The Aermoo fit perfectly with the mid size tips and thus far I'm REALLY enjoying these (for reference thus far I like the SQ of the Sony WI-1000X best, in terms of TWS, I also have Bose SSF (good but slightly boomy bass) and Nuforce BeFree8 (pretty good also).


----------



## dweaver

Finally got the MTW to connect to my phone again. Still going to RMA it as its been flaky, hopefully it just my pair.

Really love the sound as mentioned by Howdy, very addicting.


----------



## spyrusthegreat

I have tried iconx 2018.
Samsung really solved the
Master slave issue all other
Have. Sq is good well balanced
Only when on board playing
I did not have good fit on running.
Other manufacturers should offer the same (on board and no master slave)


----------



## WesennTony

I've been listening to mw07 for about a month and really love the sound. I even prefer them over some wired over the ear headphones. In office I always put off hd6xx and put back on mw07 in the middle of a song, just for the sound, let alone convenience and comfort.
The eartips do make a difference. I tried Spiral dots, spinfit, symbia hybrids, Sony hybrids, and found that Sony EP-ex11 is the best companion to my taste. The sound becomes more smooth.


----------



## clerkpalmer

Looks like the Audio-Technica has been released in the US. Anyone have any impressions compared to MW07 or Senns.


----------



## ricarva

Hi, everyone

First-time poster here on Head Fi.

I've been following this thread for a while, mulling over the idea of going wireless with my audio.

I do most of my listening at the gym and at the office. I value good audio reproduction, but also solid call/mic quality and the ability to connect to multiple devices.

Given all of the above, I decided to go with the Jabra Elite Active 65T, and am pretty happy with my choice.

Except for one thing: that left-bud hiss :-/ I'll be takiyng to customer support since I've found instances of both Jabra saying this shouldn't happen and of customers saying their units don't have the issue.

But from the accounts here, and the fact that other models (MW07, for example) seem to exhibit the same behavior, i started to wonder: could it have something to do with the use of NFMI? If so, should I expect any option that uses the same technology to have this same issue?

On my unit, the hiss becomes apparent only after a specific volume step - say, once I go from 65 to 70%. Before that point it's inaudible/inexistent.

Any thoughts?

Cheers,

Ricardo


----------



## joshnor713

ricarva said:


> Hi, everyone
> 
> First-time poster here on Head Fi.
> 
> ...



I had this exact problem, but with my first pair of Senn MTW. Got a replacement and it didn't have the problem. Get it replaced.


----------



## clerkpalmer

joshnor713 said:


> I had this exact problem, but with my first pair of Senn MTW. Got a replacement and it didn't have the problem. Get it replaced.


Agreed. Have not noticed this on 65t. 3 pairs of mw07 have had it to varying degrees. All left side.


----------



## howdy

Maybe my 45 year old ears can't hear it or not but I hear no hiss from either MW07 or Senns.


----------



## WesennTony

Neither did I from my mw07. But my first pair had another problem with the left bud. Half of the time where I took them out of the case, there was no sound coming from the left. Either I had to wait a couple of seconds so that the sound appeared magically, or if not I had to place them back to the case, close the lid, and take them out again. I exchanged them and my current pair are excellent.


----------



## albau

ricarva said:


> Hi, everyone
> 
> First-time poster here on Head Fi.
> 
> ...


I dunno, maybe it’s my 60 yo ears, but don’t hear any hiss to speak of, not on my 65t elite, nor on my MW07. Latter are so good that they totally cured my Senns itch, which is really not like me.


----------



## dweaver

albau said:


> I dunno, maybe it’s my 60 yo ears, but don’t hear any hiss to speak of, not on my 65t elite, nor on my MW07. Latter are so good that they totally cured my Senns itch, which is really not like me.


LOL, my Senns cured my MW07 itch . The good news is they both sound awesome. I generally hate having to deal with RMA stuff but I like the MTW enough I will go through that rather then give up on them.


----------



## ricarva

albau said:


> I dunno, maybe it’s my 60 yo ears, but don’t hear any hiss to speak of, not on my 65t elite, nor on my MW07. Latter are so good that they totally cured my Senns itch, which is really not like me.



I don't think it's your ears. I just hope I can get a properly working unit on the first exchange.

There's probably something tricky in the manufacturing, tuning and/or quality controlling these NFMI setups, and that works out to the relative high amounts of bad units that seem to be around.

Apart from this, highly impressed with the audio and call quality, hear through capabilities and battery life on the 65T.

I considered the MW07 and the MTW, but lack of  availability, no multi-connect, etc, etc, makes the Jabra the best option for me, for the  time being.

Let's see what 2019 will bring.


----------



## firewatersun

ricarva said:


> I don't think it's your ears. I just hope I can get a properly working unit on the first exchange.
> 
> There's probably something tricky in the manufacturing, tuning and/or quality controlling these NFMI setups, and that works out to the relative high amounts of bad units that seem to be around.
> 
> ...



I read further up that MW07 can connect to at least an Android phone and a Windows comp, and will play audio of whatever is playing, and will pause for a phone call.


----------



## ricarva

firewatersun said:


> I read further up that MW07 can connect to at least an Android phone and a Windows comp, and will play audio of whatever is playing, and will pause for a phone call.



Nearly impossible to get the MW07 here in Portugal, and not a great fit for gym use, from what I remember. Battery life is also pretty weak, so no dice.


----------



## albau

ricarva said:


> Nearly impossible to get the MW07 here in Portugal, and not a great fit for gym use, from what I remember. Battery life is also pretty weak, so no dice.


It's fine for the gym, sits tight, but battery life sucks indded at 2.5 hours


----------



## clerkpalmer

albau said:


> It's fine for the gym, sits tight, but battery life sucks indded at 2.5 hours



This. No issues with fit. Very stable. Sweat proof. Very suitable for the gym assuming you are under 2.5 hours.


----------



## Bob24

Question for Momentum True Wireless owners: how is sound isolation with those?

I’d been using a pair of Bose QC30s (earbuds with ANC) which just died on me and looking at the Sennheisers as a replacement. I’d used them to walk to work on noisy city streets, sometime in public transport, and on short flights if isolation is sufficient.

Do people think they have enough isolations for those things and if someone has used the QC30s before, how do they compare from that perspective.

And actually, I am right that isolation on the MTW is passive and there is no ANC whatsoever. Some reviews are a bit unclear and possibly misleading about that.


----------



## korefuji

Bob24 said:


> Question for Momentum True Wireless owners: how is sound isolation with those?
> 
> I’d been using a pair of Bose QC30s (earbuds with ANC) which just died on me and looking at the Sennheisers as a replacement. I’d used them to walk to work on noisy city streets, sometime in public transport, and on short flights if isolation is sufficient.
> 
> ...




Passive, no anc. Isolation depends on fit, for me they were pretty damn good. I just returned them for their other faults. I'm mostly satisfied with the Jabra Elite 65t Active now. I wish they had the sq of the MW07, but alas for the price, it doesn't. I prefer the SQ of the MW07 and the fit to the Senns, the only thing lacking in the MW07 are is battery


----------



## Bob24

korefuji said:


> Passive, no anc. Isolation depends on fit, for me they were pretty damn good. I just returned them for their other faults. I'm mostly satisfied with the Jabra Elite 65t Active now. I wish they had the sq of the MW07, but alas for the price, it doesn't. I prefer the SQ of the MW07 and the fit to the Senns, the only thing lacking in the MW07 are is battery



Cheers! So you think you’d been happy to let’s say use them to comfortably whatch a movie on the plane?


----------



## webvan

Bob24 said:


> Question for Momentum True Wireless owners: how is sound isolation with those?
> 
> I’d been using a pair of Bose QC30s (earbuds with ANC) which just died on me and looking at the Sennheisers as a replacement. I’d used them to walk to work on noisy city streets, sometime in public transport, and on short flights if isolation is sufficient.
> 
> ...


Yes some reviews are confusing because they refer to the "transparency" mode (the outside sound gets mixed in to allow you to interact) as "noise cancelling" for some reason.

I have the QC20 that are probably pretty close to the QC30 and it's a very different concept from TWEs. The Bose don't really have any passive isolation to speak of so with the ANC on you basically filter out the background noise and can still talk to people. With TWEs like the Senns or Jabras that have strong passive isolation you can't interact unless you activate the transparency mode. TBH I'm a bit undecided as to what's "best". I suppose the diminutive form factor of the TWEs would win the day. Besides the 65Ts are really not fatiguing (can't speak for the Senns) and are really decently priced.


----------



## Bob24

webvan said:


> I have the QC20 that are probably pretty close to the QC30 and it's a very different concept from TWEs. The Bose don't really have any passive isolation to speak of so with the ANC on you basically filter out the background noise and can still talk to people. With TWEs like the Senns or Jabras that have strong passive isolation you can't interact unless you activate the transparency mode. TBH I'm a bit undecided as to what's "best".



Yeah i get what you mean in terms of different isolation. And since you mention it one thing a like about the Bose is that because they don’t rely on passive isolation the eartips are very unintrusive and feel very comfortable (I am no a fan of sticking foam tips deep in my ears). 

But I have to say the form factors of true wireless is very tempting (I have AirPods and while sound quality and isolation are not up there for all my needs I love their practicality).


----------



## webvan

Yes, but again the 65Ts are easy to wear, very little pressure on the ear canal. One unexpected "plus" for the Bose : I went shopping the other day with the QC20 and no music and I must say it was pretty "relaxing", all the annoying background noise is gone. I actually tried them on when driving and my beater sounded like a plush Mercedes and it didn't feel like I was less aware of "useful" noise to stay alert. TWEs wouldn't work in that scenario.


----------



## ricarva

albau said:


> It's fine for the gym, sits tight, but battery life sucks indded at 2.5 hours



Thanks for the feedback, guys.

What's your take on call quality (outbound) for the MW07? And for those of you with the Senn MTWs?

I've heard a recording for the MTWs (it's on Youtube) and the quality of the audio picked up by the mics seems terrible, which was one of the things that pushed me to the Jabras.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

albau said:


> It's fine for the gym, sits tight, but battery life sucks indded at 2.5 hours



Yeah. Fit-wise they're fantastic because of those stabilizers. The battery life is a dealbreaker though. If you listen to music at high volume you likely won't even get 2 hours.


----------



## WesennTony

ricarva said:


> Thanks for the feedback, guys.
> 
> What's your take on call quality (outbound) for the MW07? And for those of you with the Senn MTWs?
> 
> I've heard a recording for the MTWs (it's on Youtube) and the quality of the audio picked up by the mics seems terrible, which was one of the things that pushed me to the Jabras.


I only use mw07 for calling in the quiet office. They are pretty good. Without telling them, my friends on the other side don't even notice what I'm using.
I don't expect the same in public, though, and I don't intend to do that anyway.


----------



## firewatersun

ricarva said:


> Thanks for the feedback, guys.
> 
> What's your take on call quality (outbound) for the MW07? And for those of you with the Senn MTWs?
> 
> I've heard a recording for the MTWs (it's on Youtube) and the quality of the audio picked up by the mics seems terrible, which was one of the things that pushed me to the Jabras.



Returned my MTWs and waiting on MW07s, but the outbound call quality was not great - based on recording my outbound voice on a few different apps, and hearing it on a different phone. Not horrendous, but low volume and muffled. The same is true of inbound call quality, but there are many other factors affecting that


----------



## howdy

firewatersun said:


> Returned my MTWs and waiting on MW07s, but the outbound call quality was not great - based on recording my outbound voice on a few different apps, and hearing it on a different phone. Not horrendous, but low volume and muffled. The same is true of inbound call quality, but there are many other factors affecting that


What's the reason for returning the Senns? Just curious. I think there great in most aspects and never had any issues thus far. With that being said I have not had any issues with the MW07 either, both are great!


----------



## ricarva

Quick update on the "left bud hiss" issue on my 65T: Jabra is going to replace the left earbud (!).

Here's hoping that's all there is to it. Once I get it and do some testing, I'll report back.

Merry Christmas, everyone!


----------



## WesennTony

howdy said:


> What's the reason for returning the Senns? Just curious. I think there great in most aspects and never had any issues thus far. With that being said I have not had any issues with the MW07 either, both are great!


I'm starting to get itchy about MTW  Could you compare the difference in Sound between these two? Or if you have other Senns headphones, could you tell me which it is more similar to? Currently I have IE800, HD1, HD6xx, HD700 and HD800. Thanks.


----------



## howdy

WesennTony said:


> I'm starting to get itchy about MTW  Could you compare the difference in Sound between these two? Or if you have other Senns headphones, could you tell me which it is more similar to? Currently I have IE800, HD1, HD6xx, HD700 and HD800. Thanks.


I don't not have any other Sennheiser headphones but to put it short as they are still a bit new to me. The Senns are more of a fun yet detailed headphones with big accurate bass, reminds me more of a headphone.
As for the MW07, they are very accurate and detailed. They do have great bass as well just not as powerful. The bass is more controlled and the highs are clear and present, some may get ear figure after awhile but with the short battery life you should not have to worry about that.
I think they are both great. Being Xmas week I have 4 days off and I'm trying to get a lot of time in with both. I'm listening to the Senns now but spent a few hours doing things around the house with the MW07.


----------



## WesennTony

howdy said:


> I don't not have any other Sennheiser headphones but to put it short as they are still a bit new to me. The Senns are more of a fun yet detailed headphones with big accurate bass, reminds me more of a headphone.
> As for the MW07, they are very accurate and detailed. They do have great bass as well just not as powerful. The bass is more controlled and the highs are clear and present, some may get ear figure after awhile but with the short battery life you should not have to worry about that.
> I think they are both great. Being Xmas week I have 4 days off and I'm trying to get a lot of time in with both. I'm listening to the Senns now but spent a few hours doing things around the house with the MW07.


Thanks a lot for the details. Looks like mtw is more v-shaped, not a typical Senns tuning. If you're interested you may try Spiral dots on mw07. That gives you more bass punch.


----------



## howdy

WesennTony said:


> Thanks a lot for the details. Looks like mtw is more v-shaped, not a typical Senns tuning. If you're interested you may try Spiral dots on mw07. That gives you more bass punch.


Remember that the Senns has a Eq so you can put it how you want and it handles it well. The MW07 has no eq or app to download so it is what it is.


----------



## clerkpalmer

To my ears, the senns sound warmer bordering on booming. You can tone down the boom with the eq which helps but they still do not sparkle as much as the mw07. If you prefer that signature the MTW is a good choice. I agree the mw07 are more balanced but there is plenty of bass punch in them. Also, I found the soundstage in the mw07 to be superior. The senns are closed in in comparison.


----------



## howdy

I did try the Spinfits and others as well and like the ones it came with the best for both Senns and MW07. I do have spinfits on the E8s which is a great match.


----------



## WesennTony

Without telling me the brand, I would guess that mw07 are made by Sennheiser


----------



## korefuji

WesennTony said:


> Without telling me the brand, I would guess that mw07 are made by Sennheiser



I coudl see the logic, MW - momentum Wireless, but nope, MW07's are by Master & Dynamic


----------



## WesennTony (Dec 24, 2018)

korefuji said:


> I coudl see the logic, MW - momentum Wireless, but nope, MW07's are by Master & Dynamic


Actually I am taking about the sound signature comparing with mtw.  But yeah that's another reason.


----------



## korefuji

WesennTony said:


> Actually I am taking about the sound signature. But yeah that's another reason.


Ah, me jumping the gun, with foot in mouth


----------



## howdy

@WesennTony 
I think you'd be happy with either one really, both have there pros and cons. I like switching back and forth but as I said earlier I ever so slightly prefer the Senns if I had to choose.


----------



## WesennTony

howdy said:


> @WesennTony
> I think you'd be happy with either one really, both have there pros and cons. I like switching back and forth but as I said earlier I ever so slightly prefer the Senns if I had to choose.


Great! I'll stick with mw07 FTM. I'm not a fan of touch control on mtw, easy to mess up. Also EQ seems not helpful to me. Some songs are getting better, others worse.
Thanks again!


----------



## SomeGuyDude

ricarva said:


> Quick update on the "left bud hiss" issue on my 65T: Jabra is going to replace the left earbud (!).
> 
> Here's hoping that's all there is to it. Once I get it and do some testing, I'll report back.
> 
> Merry Christmas, everyone!



Best of luck, five sets had that hiss for me.


----------



## hifi80sman (Dec 24, 2018)

SomeGuyDude said:


> Best of luck, five sets had that hiss for me.


Was this the Active version or standard?  I'm pretty sensitive to hiss and I didn't notice any of that on the Active model (Best Buy exclusive Titanium color).

I actually eneded up returning them, but not because there was anything wrong with them.  While the sound was perfectly fine, the best I could categorize it as is "inoffensive".  It wasn't "exciting" or anything that was specifically noteworthy.  It's like cheese pizza.  Good, but plain.  The EQ had only a modest effect.


----------



## dweaver

webvan said:


> Yes some reviews are confusing because they refer to the "transparency" mode (the outside sound gets mixed in to allow you to interact) as "noise cancelling" for some reason.
> 
> I have the QC20 that are probably pretty close to the QC30 and it's a very different concept from TWEs. The Bose don't really have any passive isolation to speak of so with the ANC on you basically filter out the background noise and can still talk to people. With TWEs like the Senns or Jabras that have strong passive isolation you can't interact unless you activate the transparency mode. TBH I'm a bit undecided as to what's "best". I suppose the diminutive form factor of the TWEs would win the day. Besides the 65Ts are really not fatiguing (can't speak for the Senns) and are really decently priced.


I have owned the QC20 and 30. The 20 had very high ANC actually more than the 30 in my opinion. But had less sound quality because the ANC was so strong. You will lose that "silence" that ANC gives. If you fly a lot ANC is also the best option.

But I find the MTW isolates enough that I use them on the bus and walking around and love their sound even in noisy environments. The isolation is dependent on them fitting in you concha well and tips. My wife could not wear them for example as she has an unusual ear shape. Foe me they fit like a glove. As for comfort Bise is simply the most comfortable tip design ever. Having said that the MTW are a shallow fit tip so are pretty comfortable too.

I suggest buying from Amazon or Sennheiser direct so you can return them if you fit issues.

Sound wise I think the MTW slay any Bose I have owned...


----------



## WesennTony

Calling me crazy, for long flight I usually wear a wired IEM, then cover the ears by Bose QC25 without the cord and with ANC on. I really want to try this with mw07, but the low battery life kills this idea.


----------



## howdy

I was playing with UAPP with Tidal using my MW07 and you can adjust the eq through the app and it works. I was trying out the MQA that you can use now with the UAPP on a portable device, in this case my LGV20.


----------



## clerkpalmer

As much as I love my iPhone the audio side blows. No uapp with tidal.  No ldac. Sucks.


----------



## ricarva

SomeGuyDude said:


> Best of luck, five sets had that hiss for me.



Yeah, your account is what is making me wonder if we're talking fault or feature. We'll see.



hifi80sman said:


> Was this the Active version or standard?  I'm pretty sensitive to hiss and I didn't notice any of that on the Active model (Best Buy exclusive Titanium color).



Mine are the Active, and the hiss is strange: it just jumps up into existence once I go like from 70 to 75%, and stays constant as I go to 100%. If I then take the volume down one step at a time, it disappears completely at around the same mark.

But it's *very* apparent.


----------



## nc8000

clerkpalmer said:


> As much as I love my iPhone the audio side blows. No uapp with tidal.  No ldac. Sucks.



What is uapp ?


----------



## hifi80sman

clerkpalmer said:


> As much as I love my iPhone the audio side blows. No uapp with tidal.  No ldac. Sucks.


Don't count on any of that soon.  Aside from the lawsuit with Qualcomm (aptX), they're not going to use any revenue for LDAC licensing fees.

The bright side, however, is sound is quite good from Apple Music (AAC) to devices that support AAC.


----------



## clerkpalmer

nc8000 said:


> What is uapp ?


I assumed (perhaps mistakenly) that it was usb audio pro app which integrates tidal with your android phone for high quality streaming. Someone could make my Christmas if there was anything similar for iOS. The app integrates a full parametric eq on top of it. Killer setup is dragonfly red over android using usb audio pro.


----------



## hifi80sman

ricarva said:


> Yeah, your account is what is making me wonder if we're talking fault or feature. We'll see.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Interesting.  Since I never go above 50% on pretty much anything, this may explain why some hear it and others don't.  Sounds like a flaw in the AMP.


----------



## clerkpalmer

hifi80sman said:


> Don't count on any of that soon.  Aside from the lawsuit with Qualcomm (aptX), they're not going to use any revenue for LDAC licensing fees.
> 
> The bright side, however, is sound is quite good from Apple Music (AAC) to devices that support AAC.



No parametric eq for iOS though right?


----------



## clerkpalmer

I agree aac from an iOS device is very good. But the closed ecosystem and lack of flexibility is annoying. Classic apple trade off. Rant over.


----------



## firewatersun

howdy said:


> What's the reason for returning the Senns? Just curious. I think there great in most aspects and never had any issues thus far. With that being said I have not had any issues with the MW07 either, both are great!



Usability and vanity really. SQ was great (although not sure I was OK with the pricetag - I know TW has an associated premium atm, but it was alot to stomach)

Mainly the touch controls were too finicky for me, kept accidentally restarting music, not going into transparency mode when I wanted it to, and worst of all I kept losing grip on them due to their tapering shape and lack of anything to hold (they seated deep in my ear)

Secondly more than one person commented I looked like a Cyberman...e8s look good, MW07s do too, but these can be a bit silly looking. Small issue to be sure, but one nonetheless on such a premium product


----------



## Rickyearl

Just got an alert on the E8 app that they are discontinuing the separate E8 app in favor of an overall BO app, which it asked me to download.  Did so and apparently the EQ has lost the abilty to “open up” and “close down” the soundstage by expanding the circle.  It’s now set pretty close to full open, which I don’t care for.  

Old app still works for now,  though.


----------



## hifi80sman

clerkpalmer said:


> No parametric eq for iOS though right?


Not for iPhones, unfortunately.

The "EQ" for Apple Music is useless to the Nth Degree, unless of course you want to alter the sound to an unlistenable, unnatural signature.  Love muffled sound with ludicrous peaks?  Oh, dude, Apple Music "EQ" is for you.  Whoever created the presets should really be working on something else over there...like emptying the trash cans (that's even a bit too much for them, but they have to do something).  I just realized how much those presets make me mad!  LOL!


----------



## hifi80sman

Rickyearl said:


> Just got an alert on the E8 app that they are discontinuing the separate E8 app in favor of an overall BO app, which it asked me to download.  Did so and apparently the EQ has lost the abilty to “open up” and “close down” the soundstage by expanding the circle.  It’s now set pretty close to full open, which I don’t care for.
> 
> Old app still works for now,  though.


Weird.

I received that message too, downloaded the new app, deleted the old app, and have been using that ever since (about a week now or so).  However, the dot is fully closed.  I would recommend resetting them and see what happens.  The simulated soundstage feature is not very good, so I never used it on the old app anyway.


----------



## Spamateur (Dec 24, 2018)

My Sennheiser MTW arrived today. I had ordered them off Senn's USA website last week thinking I wouldn't see them for a few weeks, but got a shipping notification on Friday. Strange.

Anyway, some initial reactions:

- Very bassy and warmer, but with some top-end emphasis for sparkle. Maybe a lopsided U shape? This is very much a "consumer" Sennheiser sound, so not very similar to their high-end cans in absolute terms. It's not an "accurate" sound from a frequency response standpoint, but they're quite pleasing to listen to. From recent memory the most obvious comparison would be to Sony's wireless ANC over-ear offerings like the WH-1000XM2. At first I was concerned male voices would be too "chesty" with how much low-end bloom there is, but that hasn't been a problem so far. There isn't much bass bleed into the mids, so no issues there.

- Treble is clean despite a small frequency bump up top. There's no really obvious grain or hashy distortion in the treble, and that's a huge relief. The treble distortion on the Jabra 65t is quite obviously audible and is my biggest complaint with those headphones. I'd say the MTW are almost as good as the Bose Soundsport Free in how clean the treble sounds.

- The EQ portion of the app didn't work at all at first. I'd make changes but there'd be no change in sound whatsoever when using my Pixel 3 XL. I thought it was broken or nonfunctional. I tried using the app again after a few minutes and it took a couple tries to reconnect to the MTW and now it's working. It's similar to the B&O EQ except a little less esoteric. Honestly, just give me a solid 5+ band EQ. I get they're trying to make EQ more touch-friendly for the iPhone generation, but c'mon.

- Comfortable. They're very light and don't seem as "dense" as other TW earphones I've owned. They stick out much further than the Jabra 65t but nothing like the giant wings that are the Bose Soundsport Free.

- Nice soundstage. Not as expansive as the Bose, but the Soundsport Free doesn't actually insert into the ear so that's no surprise. However the Jabra 65t basically has no soundstage so anything is an improvement.

It's a bummer that there seem to be so many issues with charging and that the battery life isn't great compared to the class leaders (been listening maybe an hour at 55% volume and am down to 71% battery life in the right bud). These are quite nice sounding all things considered and I'd put them up there with the Bose SoundSport Free in terms of SQ. The Bose aren't as bassy and are probably more "neutral" in absolute terms, but they both seem clean and resolving as well as being tonally and timbrally pleasing.


----------



## Spamateur

clerkpalmer said:


> Looks like the Audio-Technica has been released in the US. Anyone have any impressions compared to MW07 or Senns.



Anywhere in particular you're seeing that? I quickly googled and found them listed at B&H and decided to "preorder" a pair from them. They have a pretty forgiving return policy from experience so at least I know I'm covered if the headphones disappoint me. They're supposed to ship sometime around the new year.


----------



## hifi80sman

Spamateur said:


> My Sennheiser MTW arrived today. I had ordered them off Senn's USA website last week thinking I wouldn't see them for a few weeks, but got a shipping notification on Friday. Strange.
> 
> Anyway, some initial reactions:
> 
> ...


How do they compare with the E8?  Where do you think they're better/worse?


----------



## Spamateur

hifi80sman said:


> How do they compare with the E8?  Where do you think they're better/worse?



I want to preface the following with an acknowledgement that others here have had great experiences with the e8 and there seems to be some variability to how they sound, and also the fact that I haven't tried them in months:

I hated the e8. They were the single worst sounding TWE I have tried. I wrote this elsewhere:

"There's a spike in the treble surrounded by two prominent dips so cymbals or anything else in the upper registers sounds tinny and thin with really obvious distortion. I think there's a hump in the mids, and bass is downright bizarre. Subbass sounds juiced but without any accompanying midbass hump, so there just feels like you're missing half the sound. Clarity is awful, distortion is very apparent."

I also had connectivity issues with them. They were crazy comfortable and remember thinking the controls were intuitive and simple to use, but they sounded atrociously bad especially considering back then they were still going for full price. The MTW sound significantly better to my ears, but so do the Jabra 65t.


----------



## albau

howdy said:


> Remember that the Senns has a Eq so you can put it how you want and it handles it well. The MW07 has no eq or app to download so it is what it is.


My Samsung galaxy S8 has a pretty decent EQ (presets, 5-band and a useless fancy one). It works pretty well with MW07 (no distortion or volume jumps), at least through Google Play Music. But not that I feel the need to EQ MW07. Its native tuning is well suited for most genres, so I keep it on flat.  That unlike 65t that I have to EQ to W curve to elevate bass, bring mids from obscurity and give some zing to the treble. In that sense MW07 are like my wired Westone IEMs (or high-end cans for the matter) - no EQ needed. Though on some tracks MW07 could benefit a bit from subdued highs, which to me may sound too bright on not so well mastered material. But that's just personal preference.


----------



## clerkpalmer

Spamateur said:


> Anywhere in particular you're seeing that? I quickly googled and found them listed at B&H and decided to "preorder" a pair from them. They have a pretty forgiving return policy from experience so at least I know I'm covered if the headphones disappoint me. They're supposed to ship sometime around the new year.



Audio 46 has them in stock. Try code welcome46 for 10 percent off. I want to try them but the lack of any sweat proofing is a deal breaker.


----------



## korefuji

clerkpalmer said:


> Audio 46 has them in stock. Try code welcome46 for 10 percent off. I want to try them but the lack of any sweat proofing is a deal breaker.


Isn't it a bit weird, that adding sweat proof properties, to the sports version, reduces their battery life? I just find that a very strange decision.


----------



## clerkpalmer

korefuji said:


> Isn't it a bit weird, that adding sweat proof properties, to the sports version, reduces their battery life? I just find that a very strange decision.


I think they just went with a smaller form factor so smaller battery capacity. Plus for gym use no one needs 4 to 5 hours. I may jump in those but they aren’t available yet. Just the high end ones.


----------



## hifi80sman

Spamateur said:


> I want to preface the following with an acknowledgement that others here have had great experiences with the e8 and there seems to be some variability to how they sound, and also the fact that I haven't tried them in months:
> 
> I hated the e8. They were the single worst sounding TWE I have tried. I wrote this elsewhere:
> 
> ...


Interesting.  The 1st pair I had sounded horrible, as the frequencies, specifically the low-end, sounded as if it just flattened out due to inadequate driver range.  There was no issue with fit or seal, nor is this my "first rodeo" as it relates to IEMs.

The Charcoal Gray E8 version I had, lost connection in the left earbud all the time.  Every song, every time.  The Black pair I just got (for $192 at Best Buy with Amazon price match), doesn't drop out at all, but if it does, I'm 20 feet and 2 walls away.  The sound is great with no frequency range oddities.  As a side note, I spent some time with the H8i & H9i vs. the H8 & H9, and while I won't get into my opinion on sound, I did notice there was an odd QC variation between an H8i & H9i and any other given H8i or H9i (I actually returned quite a few for different issues).  On the other hand, the H8 & H9 were far more consistent in build quality and consistency across the board.  I'm not sure if they're using the same manufacturing plant of if they've gone with a more "cost effective" alternative.  It seems QC has taken a hit lately.


----------



## clerkpalmer

korefuji said:


> Isn't it a bit weird, that adding sweat proof properties, to the sports version, reduces their battery life? I just find that a very strange decision.


By the way the person at audio46 said the ATs have a more v shaped signature to the senns fwiw. They are awesome to deal with. Very responsive.


----------



## hifi80sman

clerkpalmer said:


> I think they just went with a smaller form factor so smaller battery capacity. Plus for gym use no one needs 4 to 5 hours. I may jump in those but they aren’t available yet. Just the high end ones.


Obviously, you haven't been to the gym with SomeGuyDude.  

I'll wait for feedback on those, as my assumption is they may be bright, but lack bass.


----------



## hifi80sman

clerkpalmer said:


> By the way the person at audio46 said the ATs have a more v shaped signature to the senns fwiw. They are awesome to deal with. Very responsive.


While the YouTube reviews are certainly easy on the eyes, I don't find their reviews very compelling.  They are a little too positive on everything...probably because they sell everything!

There are some random Chi-Fi stuff I'm looking at, specifically the Mpow T5 True Wireless Earbuds.  IPX7, aptX, AAC, leather case, 7 hours on a charge.  Who knows, they may sound like garbage, but for $59, worth a shot.

https://www.amazon.com/Mpow-Waterproof-Bluetooth-Headphones-Noise-Canceling/dp/B07KT2SYPY


----------



## mikp

just did a quick test comparing mavin air-x to fiio btr3 with tin t2. Surprised by the difference, at full volume (with hiby r3) not that much difference but btr3s bass is heavier and fuller. the mavin is wider sounding and easier to place instruments.

The btr3+tint2 sounds better, more warm and rounded bass but surprised how the mavin held up. Just showed off how the 65t does not compare (still my nr 1 for hiking).

A sidenote, the mavin customer care, or lack of, does not give confidence. No answer on emails or those "social media" things for a simple operation question.


----------



## Bob24

dweaver said:


> I have owned the QC20 and 30. The 20 had very high ANC actually more than the 30 in my opinion. But had less sound quality because the ANC was so strong. You will lose that "silence" that ANC gives. If you fly a lot ANC is also the best option.
> 
> But I find the MTW isolates enough that I use them on the bus and walking around and love their sound even in noisy environments. The isolation is dependent on them fitting in you concha well and tips. My wife could not wear them for example as she has an unusual ear shape. Foe me they fit like a glove. As for comfort Bise is simply the most comfortable tip design ever. Having said that the MTW are a shallow fit tip so are pretty comfortable too.
> 
> ...



Thanks, pretty much confirms my expectations.

Worst type of isolation while flying and not as nice eartip confort seems to be the price to pay (besides those 300 euros!). 

Thing is I don’t want to go with the QC30s again as I have concerns with their built quality and they now seem like an ageing design which will probably be discontinued soon. So since they bring that nice form factors and better sound quality to the table, I’ll probably try the MTW.


----------



## turbobb

hifi80sman said:


> ...specifically the Mpow T5 True Wireless Earbuds.  IPX7, aptX, AAC...  https://www.amazon.com/Mpow-Waterproof-Bluetooth-Headphones-Noise-Canceling/dp/B07KT2SYPY



Would be interested to hear your thoughts on these if you do end up getting 'em. The two Chi-Fi units I recently ordered are SBC only. While the implementation is pretty good on both, it's just a step below either AAC or aptX of my other BT earbuds.

Thx!,
Tim


----------



## SomeGuyDude

Spamateur said:


> I want to preface the following with an acknowledgement that others here have had great experiences with the e8 and there seems to be some variability to how they sound, and also the fact that I haven't tried them in months:
> 
> I hated the e8. They were the single worst sounding TWE I have tried. I wrote this elsewhere:
> 
> ...



The only thing I can think with these is that there was some crazy issue with the connectivity. I've noticed that if I go slightly out of range, after a couple disconnects, when it "sticks" again the sound is very hollow and odd in a way that _seems_ to match these responses. Because otherwise I'm not sure how my experience is so diametrically opposed to others. Like, I have _none_ of the issues described normally, and I'm still not totally sure about the weird connection blip situation, but that's the best guess I have. 

I haven't heard the MTW but thus far the only thing that sounds better is the MW07, but going off memory (which isn't terribly reliable) it's not a long gap between them, or at least the gap isn't enough that I find myself wishing I still had the MW07. On the contrary, I often find myself using the e8 over some of my full-size.


----------



## Luchyres

Hello all! 

Long time lurker, but apparently a first-time poster (I could've sworn I had created an account in the past....) anyway... I waited explicitly for the Senn MTW as my launch into the world of expensive true wireless earbuds. I did buy a cheap pair from amazon to be sure that I liked using them, but then I waited for the MTW as I know I am very picky when it comes to sound quality (aptxHD, LL, usb c - what's not to like?). 

Received them from my Amazon order on 12/17. I've been listening to them pretty much non-stop for about a week. I really like them, but there are a few things I am struggling with: 

#1 - When the earbuds are in the case and the case loses charge, the earbuds seem to think that they are being called to action and so they connect to my phone (stealing my audio stream) and they have to be manually disconnected by pressing and holding both (or you can plug the chase in - giving it power and letting it tell the buds that they are charging again). I have found the earbuds dead after they started playing in the case overnight. I really hope they can fix this with a firmware update or a case fix. 

#2 - Max volume - I am a bit of a basshead and probably listen to things at unhealthy volumes at times - I don't love that my standard volume with these is 1 bump away from maximum. It hasn't been an issue, but I assume it's not great for my battery life. 

#3 - Sound - I like the sound. A lot. But... even though I like a lot of bass - the overall sennheiser U or V sound is a little off for me. I also like to have more of a sense of atmosphere and a large enough soundstage to distinguish subtleties in the bass. 

#4 - Calls - I didn't expect that this would matter to me as much as it does. I have at least one person who hates talking to me when I have them on - claiming I sound distant and a little distorted (even when I'm sitting in my living room). Others have not complained, but I have not been reading positive things about the microphone for calls since. 


Finally, I did buy the Comply True Wireless, one size fits all, tips and I do like them on the MTW - it actually makes the sounds a little more pleasant for me, and the fit is solid. The one difference is that I take the added step of rolling them before insertion which is a little slower. I'd recommend the tips to anyone who likes comply or who finds they're between sizes in the regular tips. 

So, I decided I'm going to try the Westone Bluetooth 5.0 V2 cable: https://www.westone.com/store/music/index.php/bluetooth-v2-cable

I have my Fender FXA2 iems just sitting around not being used, so I thought I'd give this a go - given there are some promising reviews for this cable. I think I am going to return the MTW, but I'm waiting a day or two to decide. 

Can't wait to see what's next in this space!


----------



## chinmie

I've just sold my Pamu Scroll because the treble is so abrasive. my families came to my house yesterday and my niece showed her new Sabbat that she ordered after auditioning my unit a week ago. surprise surprise, her version is different, now it has USB C and battery indicator on the case, and different charging pin and LED position on the earpiece. 

so i immediately ordered another sabbat and also the mifo 05 standard version just for the heck of it


----------



## Churchill Wu

Has anyone had balance issue with the MTWs? Just got mine and it seems the audio is skewed to the right... Wondering if it's a fit issue or defective unit. Really frustrating cuz I switched to these from the 65ts because of their balance issue.


----------



## dweaver

None on my pair. Have you tried different sized tips. My ears are slightly different in size and I have to use large on one side and medium on the other.


----------



## webvan

Churchill Wu said:


> Has anyone had balance issue with the MTWs? Just got mine and it seems the audio is skewed to the right... Wondering if it's a fit issue or defective unit. Really frustrating cuz I switched to these from the 65ts because of their balance issue.



Not skewed on the same side are they ? I'm asking because it seems my own hearing is maybe a tad weaker on the right and I think I need to factor that when listening with headphones now


----------



## smaragd

webvan said:


> Not skewed on the same side are they ? I'm asking because it seems my own hearing is maybe a tad weaker on the right and I think I need to factor that when listening with headphones now


Good point... a friend had the same “issue” which turned out to be a wax plug on one side...
Wouldn’t hurt to have ones ears checked to rule out that the plug is causing the imbalance...


----------



## Churchill Wu

Thanks everyone, all very good points. I have tested two other sets of IEMs I own and they are balanced, I also tried out two different sets of the MTWs before buying them and those demos also sounded completely fine, so I am reasonably convinced that it is slight defect. It is strange that nobody else had the same issue but alas I guess that is just my luck (perhaps Santa doesn't like me). Reached out to Sennheiser about it, hopefully warranty process is smooth or better yet the earbuds fix themselves with some use.


----------



## smaragd

Could also be a fit issue, if the stem tube is squished a bit more on one side as the other side due to fit issues and size difference it may have a different sound causing imbalance.
Try with various tips and if the problem persist return the faulty ones for a replacement.


----------



## james444

Earin M-2 are on sale for €175 (30% off):  https://earin.com/


----------



## 05stisilver

james444 said:


> Earin M-2 are on sale for €175 (30% off):  https://earin.com/



Since the Earin are on sale. How is their sound compared to the Senn MTW and the MW07?


----------



## korefuji (Dec 26, 2018)

Is earin a chifi brand?

Never mind, found these reviews https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/earin-m-2.23074/reviews


----------



## nc8000

korefuji said:


> Is earin a chifi brand?



Swedish


----------



## korefuji

This review is pretty brutal with the cons https://www.androidpolice.com/2018/...-low-latency-earbuds-not-without-compromises/


----------



## korefuji

I’ll be returning the Jabra elite active 65t and waiting till better twes are released in 2019. Too many compromises. The sound stage of the jabras is dead compared to the senns and mw07, I’ve been ruined.


----------



## webvan

Actually the 65Ts are probably the current TWEs with the fewest compromises, there's only one really, they don't have the "best in class" SQ...not that it's terrible mind you, far from it, and I can't see how it would be a problem when you're out and about.


----------



## korefuji

I used them the other day and turned my head, left bud had dropouts. It was really disappointing


----------



## WesennTony

It happened to my MW07 as well, occasionally when I put my phone in the left pocket.


----------



## webvan

Dropouts with the 65Ts ? Odd, that's the only TWE I've had that's never had any (Havit, Sony, ChiFi), with the Jabra Sport Elite I guess too.


----------



## Boreaquis (Jan 7, 2019)

Old lurker here, had to make a new account as I changed my email ages ago.

I ordered the Havit I93 due to their G1 getting good reviews, and couldn't resist getting the Sabbat X12 either, after all the chinmie posts in this thread.

At $38, both the X12 and the I93 come in just under the VAT exemption limit in Norway, making them a very cheap import. I'm quite happy with both of them, considering the price.

I haven't timed the X12 battery life yet, but I got 4h out of the I93. The massive 2200mAh in the case should be enough to recharge 15 times, although this obviously comes at the cost of a significantly bulkier case than the lithe X12.

Both are very comfortable, with the I93 feeling particularly secure.

As for the sound, I'd say that both are satisfying. The lack of soundstage on the I93 and the isolation on the X12 are the biggest downsides.

My daily driver has been the MDR1000X for a long time, and I got these as a more compact alternative, although it doesn't seem fair to expect the same sound, considering the price and form factor.

Here's a few photos.


----------



## WesennTony

webvan said:


> Dropouts with the 65Ts ? Odd, that's the only TWE I've had that's never had any (Havit, Sony, ChiFi), with the Jabra Sport Elite I guess too.


Do you think Atctive 65T is good for gym use? I'd like to save my MW07 for office and travel, not abusing them. Besides Active 65T is on sale now on Amazon.


----------



## clerkpalmer

WesennTony said:


> Do you think Atctive 65T is good for gym use? I'd like to save my MW07 for office and travel, not abusing them. Besides Active 65T is on sale now on Amazon.


Yes.  They excel for gym use.  Easy to use and you can drench them without issue.


----------



## nc8000

webvan said:


> Dropouts with the 65Ts ? Odd, that's the only TWE I've had that's never had any (Havit, Sony, ChiFi), with the Jabra Sport Elite I guess too.



Not had a single drop out on the Havit G1 in the 4 weeks I’ve had them. Manny very short left unit drop outs on the Beoplay E8


----------



## webvan (Dec 26, 2018)

They're rare but they're there, I've noticed that when walking past stores, probably some type of 2.4Ghz interference.



WesennTony said:


> Do you think Atctive 65T is good for gym use? I'd like to save my MW07 for office and travel, not abusing them. Besides Active 65T is on sale now on Amazon.


Yes I think they'd be fine for gym use yes, even if I suppose they could isolate a bit more, and they'd be better for the gym than for running as they tend to generate some "thumping" with their tight seal.
Now if you don't need to make calls the Havit G1 would be fine for the gym too and even cheaper.


----------



## korefuji

nc8000 said:


> Not had a single drop out on the Havit G1 in the 4 weeks I’ve had them. Manny very short left unit drop outs on the Beoplay E8





Boreaquis said:


> Old lurker here, had to make a new account as I changed my email ages ago.
> 
> I ordered the Havit I93 due to their G1 getting good reviews, and couldn't resist getting the Sabbat X12 either, after all the chinmie posts in this thread.
> 
> ...



Nice, I couldnt find the i93's on the prohavit website, do you know if they're BT5.0 or 4.2? Anything else notable about those and the Sabbat?


----------



## WesennTony

webvan said:


> They're rare but they're there, I've noticed that when walking past stores, probably some type of 2.4Ghz interference.
> 
> Yes I think they'd be fine for gym use yes, even if I suppose they could isolate a bit more, and they'd be better for the gym than for running as they tend to generate some "thumping" with their tight seal.
> Now if you don't need to make calls the Havit G1 would be fine for the gym too and even cheaper.


I've ordered Havit G1 a month ago, still waiting. I'm wondering if there is something wrong during the shipping process.


----------



## nc8000

WesennTony said:


> I've ordered Havit G1 a month ago, still waiting. I'm wondering if there is something wrong during the shipping process.



I got mine in 8 days from Banggood


----------



## WesennTony

nc8000 said:


> I got mine in 8 days from Banggood


I ordered from Aliexpress. Only a couple of days left for the dispute deadline.


----------



## korefuji

got mine in 4 days from prohavit


----------



## Boreaquis

korefuji said:


> Nice, I couldnt find the i93's on the prohavit website, do you know if they're BT5.0 or 4.2? Anything else notable about those and the Sabbat?



BT5.0. They're mentioned on the Havit site, but they're quite new, so that might be why they're not on prohavit yet.

These are my only TW, so I don't have much to compare them to, but I was impressed with their ease of use. Both have magnetic lids and magnetic slots, so everything snaps into place. They also turn on and pair automatically when you take them out, and turn off when put on the case.

A downside for both is that the physical buttons are a bit too hard to press, which can be uncomfortable.


----------



## nc8000

Boreaquis said:


> BT5.0. They're mentioned on the Havit site, but they're quite new, so that might be why they're not on prohavit yet.
> 
> These are my only TW, so I don't have much to compare them to, but I was impressed with their ease of use. Both have magnetic lids and magnetic slots, so everything snaps into place. They also turn on and pair automatically when you take them out, and turn off when put on the case.
> 
> A downside for both is that the physical buttons are a bit too hard to press, which can be uncomfortable.



Yes that is also the case with the G1, much prefer the touch gestures on the E8


----------



## korefuji

Boreaquis said:


> BT5.0. They're mentioned on the Havit site, but they're quite new, so that might be why they're not on prohavit yet.
> 
> These are my only TW, so I don't have much to compare them to, but I was impressed with their ease of use. Both have magnetic lids and magnetic slots, so everything snaps into place. They also turn on and pair automatically when you take them out, and turn off when put on the case.
> 
> A downside for both is that the physical buttons are a bit too hard to press, which can be uncomfortable.



Ah ok, thank you.


----------



## Tommy C

webvan said:


> Actually the 65Ts are probably the current TWEs with the fewest compromises, there's only one really, they don't have the "best in class" SQ...not that it's terrible mind you, far from it, and I can't see how it would be a problem when you're out and about.



Completely agreed with this. I have the Jabra Elite Sport and with the right fit they sound fantastic paired with iPhone X without any issues.  I also had the chance to listen to the 65t Active and they have a little bit more sparkle and less bass and none of the issues described here. 
At their current prices if I had to get a new pair I would definitely go with Jabra.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

Rather significant e8 issue: the grills. Mine got kinda waxy after using them in the gym and an attempt to pick the gunk out with a paperclip damn near punctured one because I think it's just a thin piece of cloth. If I can't hot-water them clean I might return them for a new pair and start fresh.


----------



## korefuji

so assuming I keep the Jabras, after mulling it over, anyone got any suggestions for tips? I know the truly wireless comply don't fit the case, and neither do the 100z from spin fit. So what are my options?


----------



## AnakChan

WesennTony said:


> Do you think Atctive 65T is good for gym use? I'd like to save my MW07 for office and travel, not abusing them. Besides Active 65T is on sale now on Amazon.


As what others have responded, the Active Elite 65t are designed well enough for gym use. I bought my 65t specifically for that purpose. SQ-wise, it’s so-so but I have to say I don’t focus on SQ when I’m working out.

I have had brief cutouts but I don’t believe it is caused by distance but more from interference/congestion.

They handle sweat & showers well. Unlike my V-Moda Forza Wireless, sweat got into the earpieces/controller (as such me buying the 65t).

Fit-wise, I do find that they can fall off the ear (my left side more than my right). I haven’t tried swapping tips yet. Durability-wise, despite dropping, they’ve been sturdy.

No issues on battery life but I’m in the gym for 2  hrs max anyway.

Having said all that, I listened to the MW07 & loved the SQ. Fit wise seems better than the 65t thx to the MW07 “wings”. However Bluetooth 4.x & 2-3 hr battery life kinda worries me.


----------



## hifi80sman (Dec 26, 2018)

SomeGuyDude said:


> Rather significant e8 issue: the grills. Mine got kinda waxy after using them in the gym and an attempt to pick the gunk out with a paperclip damn near punctured one because I think it's just a thin piece of cloth. If I can't hot-water them clean I might return them for a new pair and start fresh.


You may want to try and clean by lightly rotating a Q-Tip over the grills.  Just make sure you don't press down too hard, as it will jam it in the mesh.

I think I may return my E8 (poor call quality) and go for the Sennheiser or try to find the Unicorn MW07.  Leaning more toward the MW07, as the call quality doesn't sound like it's that good with the MTW either, even though they tout the "dual beam forming mics".


----------



## Rickyearl

I think I am letting the E8s go.  Tried every tip I could find and the MTW just sounds better.  Shame too, because other than SQ the E8 is better in pretty much every other way. 

May also give the MW07 another try.  Or just wait for whatever new hotness is coming down the pike.


----------



## AnakChan

When I tried the E8s I found them extremely V-shaped. Did other folks find that to be the case?


----------



## kiwikozo

I returned my Sennheiser Momentum True Wireless. They randomly stopped connecting to my phone, I tried resetting the earphones and case but they seemed to be frozen.
Additionally, I found shape cause discomfort to my ears, they don't reach far enough inside my ear canal, and my ear pressed against the slightly curved plastic casing. I also had to re-adjust them every 20 minutes.

I think the classic minimalistic in-ear earphone style is the most comfortable for me, so I've ordered the Earin M2's. The don't have bluetooth 5.0, or usb-c, but they're that particular shape, and 30% off right now on earin's website. Also, they come with comply tips, automatically detect left/right, and the earbuds can be used independently!

Once I've had a listen I will update on how they compare to the Jabra, Sony, Sennheiser Momentum TW, and RHA True Connect.


----------



## howdy

kiwikozo said:


> I returned my Sennheiser Momentum True Wireless. They randomly stopped connecting to my phone, I tried resetting the earphones and case but they seemed to be frozen.
> Additionally, I found shape cause discomfort to my ears, they don't reach far enough inside my ear canal, and my ear pressed against the slightly curved plastic casing. I also had to re-adjust them every 20 minutes.
> 
> I think the classic minimalistic in-ear earphone style is the most comfortable for me, so I've ordered the Earin M2's. The don't have bluetooth 5.0, or usb-c, but they're that particular shape, and 30% off right now on earin's website. Also, they come with comply tips, automatically detect left/right, and the earbuds can be used independently!
> ...


That's to bad about the Senns I find the Senns some of the most comfortable IEM I've ever worn.


----------



## jfvny

Boreaquis said:


> BT5.0. They're mentioned on the Havit site, but they're quite new, so that might be why they're not on prohavit yet.
> 
> These are my only TW, so I don't have much to compare them to, but I was impressed with their ease of use. Both have magnetic lids and magnetic slots, so everything snaps into place. They also turn on and pair automatically when you take them out, and turn off when put on the case.
> 
> A downside for both is that the physical buttons are a bit too hard to press, which can be uncomfortable.


Just curious, how's the comfort of the I93 after an hour or so?
I've found the havit G1 to start to be a little tiring on my ears after 1-2 hours, and the I93 looks much larger, but i'm wondering if maybe the larger size makes it more balanced somehow


----------



## Luchyres

howdy said:


> That's to bad about the Senns I find the Senns some of the most comfortable IEM I've ever worn.





kiwikozo said:


> I returned my Sennheiser Momentum True Wireless. They randomly stopped connecting to my phone, I tried resetting the earphones and case but they seemed to be frozen.
> Additionally, I found shape cause discomfort to my ears, they don't reach far enough inside my ear canal, and my ear pressed against the slightly curved plastic casing. I also had to re-adjust them every 20 minutes.
> 
> I think the classic minimalistic in-ear earphone style is the most comfortable for me, so I've ordered the Earin M2's. The don't have bluetooth 5.0, or usb-c, but they're that particular shape, and 30% off right now on earin's website. Also, they come with comply tips, automatically detect left/right, and the earbuds can be used independently!
> ...



I'm curious to hear what you think of the Earin M-2. They seem like a very promising product and I really like the overall design (particularly the tube case - seems more pocketable to me?) but I think I'm going to wait to see what their next (hopefully aptxHD, BT5.0 w/e) is. 

The one thing that may pull me back is if the Earin M-2 has good call quality..... hmmmm


----------



## webvan

Based on the review linked here the other day it's very poor!


----------



## Boreaquis (Dec 27, 2018)

jfvny said:


> Just curious, how's the comfort of the I93 after an hour or so?
> I've found the havit G1 to start to be a little tiring on my ears after 1-2 hours, and the I93 looks much larger, but i'm wondering if maybe the larger size makes it more balanced somehow



Feels fine even after 2-3 hours. They're big, but it doesn't feel like it. I think it's mainly that the hook thing works really well for me.

Speaking of the G1, I emailed Havit asking about the differences before buying the I93. This is what I got in response:

"I93 is a new product in October 2018.
Why is it cheaper than G1?
Because the I93 and G1 chips are different, the appearance is not G1 fashion, and the sound quality of the G1 will be better."​But as the G1 would cost me about twice as much due to toll fees, I figured this was the better option.


----------



## sly_in_the_sky (Dec 27, 2018)

If it was not for their excellent sound, I would have already sold my Senns... the right earpiece commands ofter dont work and don’t take your commands at all, the only way for it to work is to put it in the box again and take them out... I wrote to Sennheiser to ask if there will be a firmware update soon...


----------



## kiwikozo (Dec 27, 2018)

webvan said:


> Based on the review linked here the other day it's very poor!



What review? Which page is it on?

Most of the reviews I've seen praise the M2, but say that the price and the 3.5 hour battery life are the drawbacks which is the same as the Sennheiser MTW. I don't expect the same sound signature but they're supposed to have recessed highs (which I prefer).

The earin app does have terrible reviews, though. But the channel imbalance issue seems to have been fixed with the most recent firmware update.


----------



## kiwikozo

Luchyres said:


> I'm curious to hear what you think of the Earin M-2. They seem like a very promising product and I really like the overall design (particularly the tube case - seems more pocketable to me?) but I think I'm going to wait to see what their next (hopefully aptxHD, BT5.0 w/e) is.
> 
> The one thing that may pull me back is if the Earin M-2 has good call quality..... hmmmm



This comparison shows the Sennheiser MTW vs Earin M-2, and the call quality. Probably made me pull the trigger for the M2, I was hesitating since it's a brand I'm not familiar with / haven't heard much about.


Most TW struggle with call quality, the mic is never in an optimal place unless you have the airpod style which droops down. The M2 has better call quality than the MTW.


----------



## hoob

kiwikozo said:


> This comparison shows the Sennheiser MTW vs Earin M-2, and the call quality. Probably made me pull the trigger for the M2, I was hesitating since it's a brand I'm not familiar with / haven't heard much about.



Wanted to add that my experience with Earin customer support was fairly awful.  I bought the M-1s very early on and liked them for the fit and convenience.  I could live with the random cutouts cause this was one of the very first true wireless.  But when the earbuds stopped connecting within a few months and I couldn't even get them to pair, I contacted customer support.  I was funneled through different departments and given the same generic instructions for pairing.  Then they started blaming my phone's bluetooth, using the earphones incorrectly (how?), and finally using them in an open area which may cause bluetooth disconnects (unlikely since I listened to them mostly in a walled office).  They ended up telling me it was too bad and that they wouldn't help me any more.  By the time I got to that point, I wasn't able to return them and they basically ignored my emails.  
It was really disappointing having to deal with them.  Nowadays, my M-1 is just a useless paperweight.  Maybe they're better now, but that whole exchange completely soured me on anything Earin.


----------



## Luchyres

hoob said:


> Wanted to add that my experience with Earin customer support was fairly awful.  I bought the M-1s very early on and liked them for the fit and convenience.  I could live with the random cutouts cause this was one of the very first true wireless.  But when the earbuds stopped connecting within a few months and I couldn't even get them to pair, I contacted customer support.  I was funneled through different departments and given the same generic instructions for pairing.  Then they started blaming my phone's bluetooth, using the earphones incorrectly (how?), and finally using them in an open area which may cause bluetooth disconnects (unlikely since I listened to them mostly in a walled office).  They ended up telling me it was too bad and that they wouldn't help me any more.  By the time I got to that point, I wasn't able to return them and they basically ignored my emails.
> It was really disappointing having to deal with them.  Nowadays, my M-1 is just a useless paperweight.  Maybe they're better now, but that whole exchange completely soured me on anything Earin.



Thank you for that added info - hopefully others have had more promising experiences with them - as they are a company I definitely would like to see continue to exist and make a v3 - but customer support is one of the things that is a bit of a canary in the coal mine - if it's not good now, it doesn't seem likely it will get a ton better....

Eager to hear Kiwikozo's thoughts - I must admit I was pretty impressed by the call quality in the linked Youtube video - and also disappointed in the Senn's. 

I have another few weeks to return - but I may send them back and try out the M-2 - or just buy a short 2.5mm balanced to mmcx cable for the Radsone EarStudio to IEM combo - and will be testing the call quality with the Westone Bluetooth 5.0 V2 MMCX cable. If both the EarStudio and the Westone cable struggle with everyday calls - I may get the Earin. 

 great to have options!


----------



## jfvny (Dec 27, 2018)

Boreaquis said:


> Feels fine even after 2-3 hours. They're big, but it doesn't feel like it. I think it's mainly that the hook thing works really well for me.
> 
> Speaking of the G1, I emailed Havit asking about the differences before buying the I93. This is what I got in response:
> 
> ...


Thanks for the info!
Even without toll fees the I93 is around half the price for me lol. Add to that the decent sound from your review, and the much larger charging case battery, and this is prob a really great cheap TWE
Now i'm tempted to get a pair just to compare with the G1...sigh...


----------



## webvan

kiwikozo said:


> What review? Which page is it on?
> 
> Most of the reviews I've seen praise the M2, but say that the price and the 3.5 hour battery life are the drawbacks which is the same as the Sennheiser MTW. I don't expect the same sound signature but they're supposed to have recessed highs (which I prefer).
> 
> The earin app does have terrible reviews, though. But the channel imbalance issue seems to have been fixed with the most recent firmware update.



Here's the review https://www.androidpolice.com/2018/...-low-latency-earbuds-not-without-compromises/

Also I'm not really impressed by the call quality in that Senn vs Earin YT video, of course it's useless with the Senn's but still very garbly with the Earins. It would have been interesting to see how the 65Ts did in the same environment.


----------



## jfvny

Also, just saw that there's now a Havit I96 with touch controls here
hmmmmmmm


----------



## Boreaquis

jfvny said:


> Thanks for the info!
> Even without toll fees the I93 is around half the price for me lol. Add to that the decent sound from your review, and the much larger charging case battery, and this is prob a really great cheap TWE
> Now i'm tempted to get a pair just to compare with the G1...sigh...



Yeah, I checked, it's actually closer to three times the price. $64 for the G1 on AliExpress seems good, but I'd risk an extra $30 in VAT + fees.

Holding off the temptation of ordering anything else for now, but I'm hoping for a more compete high-end offering from Sennheiser or Audio Technica in the near future. I haven't seen all the features I want in a single product yet.


----------



## korefuji

If anyone buys twes for call quality alone, I can safely  say the Jabra 65t win hands down.


----------



## Boreaquis (Dec 27, 2018)

jfvny said:


> Also, just saw that there's now a Havit I96 with touch controls here
> hmmmmmmm



Those definitely look like they could be good. I'd wait for those of I hadn't bought the i93 already.


----------



## Luchyres

webvan said:


> Here's the review https://www.androidpolice.com/2018/...-low-latency-earbuds-not-without-compromises/
> 
> Also I'm not really impressed by the call quality in that Senn vs Earin YT video, of course it's useless with the Senn's but still very garbly with the Earins. It would have been interesting to see how the 65Ts did in the same environment.



Ooph - not loving the call quality in that review I see! Well, good, as I should probably stick with these other, cheaper, solutions until my ideal TWE comes out. 

I would love to see what the solution that evolves is to avoid having a M/S earbud relationship, no more NFMI (?), improvements to SQ and battery life (for those that are lacking), and case improvements. 

What I didn't end up loving about the Senn's:


Some of my bassier tracks end up sounding a little forced. (I listen to ridic hip-hop that is not always the best produced, so admittedly I'm looking for a headphone that masks some imperfections, but gives undiluted bass). 
The overall sound signature - makes me feel like I'm in a smaller room with a lot of sheep (hyperbole, but it just doesn't have the soundstage or atmosphere that is my subjective pref).  
Max Volume - (personal issue) but I'm close to the top tick of volume, all the time, even alone in my house. 
Finicky Controls - Earbuds turning on when case loses charge, touch controls (not too bad). 
Some slight brassy note with some of the bass in the left earbud only. Hard to notice this - but certain kickdrums have a weird resonance, a little bit like when you play a speaker in a room next to an old dryer - something resonates and adds a metallic note. 
The case is nice, but not pocket-able in regular pants - and it doesn't seem to keep the buds in place if jostled a ton in transit. I cannot deal with TWE that may or may not have a charge/turn off when you put them in the case. 

What I did like: SQ is solid, Battery is good enough for me, fit is solid. 

I'm excited to see the successor to the Senn's (someone mentioned their support said they're already working on v2), the M&D MW07 (which would likely have a sound sig I like, but I can't deal with the battery life - esp at my volume levels), and the Earin M-3 or whatever is next.


----------



## korefuji

do people have good experiences with alibaba/aliexpress? I've never purchased from those stores before


----------



## webvan (Dec 27, 2018)

Yes, very reliable and they've got you covered in case of a mishap (parcel never arrives, quality problem with your product).



korefuji said:


> If anyone buys twes for call quality alone, I can safely  say the Jabra 65t win hands down.



I didn't find a "coffee shop" test for the 65t but did find this recording by the same reviewer and it's pretty garbly too, odd. I'll have to do my own tests as I thought they'd sound better and would have thought that the people I talked to would have complained if it had sounded like that !


----------



## jfvny

Boreaquis said:


> Those definitely look like they could be good. I'd wait for those of I hadn't bought the i93 already.


Same, might have gotten those if i hadn't already got a pair of TWEs.

Also, aliexpress has been pretty reliable for me, but haven't bought much from there either, so yeah


----------



## Boreaquis

I've ordered quite a lot of stuff from aliexpress. No issues as long as you don't mind the slow shipping. It's probably wise to stick to the established,  high-rated sellers though.


----------



## michaeljefford (Dec 27, 2018)

I love the MTW, but I have one huge issue. After around *20-25 minutes of wearing* I start getting discomfort in the left ear. I can continue wearing them, but it doesn't feel all that comfortable. Adjusting it slightly helps a little, but the pain is still there.

I have tested using the small tip in the left ear, whilst retaining the medium in the right, and that helps a little, I can last a little longer.

Overall they fit well, and taking them on my first run yesterday, they stayed firmly in place, with absolutely no movement. However there was the aforementioned ear pain on the left side, which equally caused a little bit of neck pain under the ear.

I've tried, and am in the process of returning the *MW07*, just couldn't get a completely snug fit, despite them seeming more comfortable. The SQ was not for me either, it just felt a little bland.

*Moving on....*

I've purchased the *Sony WF-SP700N* and the *Jabra Elite Active* to give a go. I've only received the Sony's so far, so here's what I think of them.

Fit is great, super snug and secure, though I've yet to go running with them. Comfort wise, these are the best so far. I've been wearing them for nearly 2 hours, with little to no pain, which I've been incredibly pleased with.

SQ also gets a tick, very very decent for the price, playing around with the presets within the app has toned the bass back a little. A good amount of detail in mids and highs.

Only issues are - (So Far)
*Charging Case* - Flimsy feeling, takes an age to charge (both the case and buds), can only charge the buds once more. No way of knowing how much charge is left on the case.
*Battery Life -* I knew going into testing these that the battery wasn't superb, but I'd love if these lasted a little longer (*4-5 hours*)
*Poor Latency* - Watching Youtube or Netflix as a test, showed these have noticeable audio delay, a little disappointing. The MTW perform better in this regard.

So far I'm happy, too early to tell whether those 3 cons are a deal breaker. It'll be interesting to compare them to the Jabra's tomorrow..


----------



## hifi80sman

kiwikozo said:


> Most TW struggle with call quality, the mic is never in an optimal place unless you have the airpod style which droops down. The M2 has better call quality than the MTW.


Call quality on the MW07 is pretty solid.  It's good enough I can actually use it for business calls without the other party commenting on the call quality (or lack thereof).  With the E8, I was receiving too many complaints and just decided I had to call it a day on those guys.  The Jabra 65t had the best call quality, but I found the sound too pedestrian (I'm usually in an office setting, at my desk).  If I were on the move constantly, then the Jabra 65t would be a good solution, since nuances of sound when out and about are less important.

Also, instead of buying the Black MW07 again, which I consistently got EXACTLY 2.5 hours of use out of, I picked up the Tortoiseshell color, and oddly, at the same volume level (40%), I was able to scrape out about 3 hours, 10 mins of use.  I did get the low battery warning at about 2.5 hours and 20% battery life, but it powered on for another 40+ minutes.  I'm not a big fan of the low battery warning every 5 mins or so, but it's still far enough apart it's still usable.


----------



## james444

hoob said:


> Wanted to add that my experience with Earin customer support was fairly awful.





Luchyres said:


> Thank you for that added info - hopefully others have had more promising experiences with them



I had the Earin M-2 for a few days and returned them due to the channel imbalance issue (which seems to have been fixed recently). Without this flaw, I would have kept them, as they were really good.

Dealing with customer support was smooth, they even paid for return shipping.


----------



## Boreaquis (Dec 27, 2018)

Finished my battery tests. They were both conducted by starting a spotify playlist and playing music continuously, with no breaks or pauses, until the TWs ran out of battery.

The I93 lasted for 4 hours, as mentioned previously.

I did the X12 today, which clocked in at 7 hours. Started getting low battery warnings every 4 minutes after 6 hours, but somehow it soldiered on for another full hour.

Both sets needed less than an hour in their case to fully recharge.


----------



## kiwikozo

james444 said:


> I had the Earin M-2 for a few days and returned them due to the channel imbalance issue (which seems to have been fixed recently). Without this flaw, I would have kept them, as they were really good.
> 
> Dealing with customer support was smooth, they even paid for return shipping.



Good to hear, I'm looking forward to trying mine. Should receive them on Wed!


----------



## howdy

michaeljefford said:


> I love the MTW, but I have one huge issue. After around *20-25 minutes of wearing* I start getting discomfort in the left ear. I can continue wearing them, but it doesn't feel all that comfortable. Adjusting it slightly helps a little, but the pain is still there.
> 
> I have tested using the small tip in the left ear, whilst retaining the medium in the right, and that helps a little, I can last a little longer.
> 
> ...


I had some issues with getting a good seal on my right ear and what I found was taking the wing off and not using one at all I was then able to get a good seal. It still stays really well. I don't work out with these at all so I'm not to worried about them falling out but I did shake my head somewhat vigorously.


----------



## alchemical

Any MW07 owners experienced quirks with the case? Buds seem to charge fine but the behaviour of the LEDs is a bit all over the shop on mine. Sometimes illuminating, sometimes not, occasionally one side but not the other etc.


----------



## howdy

alchemical said:


> Any MW07 owners experienced quirks with the case? Buds seem to charge fine but the behaviour of the LEDs is a bit all over the shop on mine. Sometimes illuminating, sometimes not, occasionally one side but not the other etc.


None with mine so far. I will keep an eye on it to see if anything happens.


----------



## clerkpalmer

My leds always illuminate but they are worthless. They go from green to red after 10 minutes of use. I ignore them generally.


----------



## alchemical

howdy said:


> None with mine so far. I will keep an eye on it to see if anything happens.


Cheers, much appreciated.


----------



## alchemical

clerkpalmer said:


> My leds always illuminate but they are worthless. They go from green to red after 10 minutes of use. I ignore them generally.


Yep, same with mine.


----------



## albau

clerkpalmer said:


> My leds always illuminate but they are worthless. They go from green to red after 10 minutes of use. I ignore them generally.


I also have no problems with lights per se. Agree that bud lights (no pun) are near useless going almost immediately from green to red, but middle light for the case charge is pretty useful. In my experience it realistically cycles through green, yellow and red.


----------



## unfunk (Dec 28, 2018)

unfunk said:


> Do any MW07 users notice a physical rattling noise coming from the left earbud? Its as if there's a loose part in there.
> I first noticed it while running with the MW07. I can also hear it now just by shaking the left earbud vigorously beside my ear, so its not related to the sound output.
> The right earbud is fine with no rattling noises.
> 
> Wonder if its just my unit, or if all units have this going on. Might need to exchange mine.





hifi80sman said:


> Exchange.  Never noticed anything like that with mine.



Hmm I exchanged my MW07, even in a different color too. But that rattling, loose component-like noise is still there in the left earbud.
Sort of surprised I am the only one noticing this since its so audible/distracting while using them on a run.

Could any other MW07 owners give their left earbud a vigorous shake right beside their ear and let me know if they hear anything?
I'm trying to determine if its just a quirk in all units, or if I am just really unlucky.


----------



## michaeljefford

unfunk said:


> Hmm I exchanged my MW07, even in a different color too. But that rattling, loose component-like noise is still there in the left earbud.
> Sort of surprised I am the only one noticing this since its so audible/distracting while using them on a run.
> 
> Could any other MW07 owners give their left earbud a vigorous shake right beside their ear and let me know if they hear anything?
> I'm trying to determine if its just a quirk in all units, or if I am just really unlucky.



Checked the pair I have ready for return, can confirm a rattling in the left bud.


----------



## michaeljefford (Dec 28, 2018)

howdy said:


> I had some issues with getting a good seal on my right ear and what I found was taking the wing off and not using one at all I was then able to get a good seal. It still stays really well. I don't work out with these at all so I'm not to worried about them falling out but I did shake my head somewhat vigorously.



Interesting, just tried this and they passed the vigorous head shaking test with flying colours, so much more stable. I did initially test by taking off both fins, but found leaving the left one on works best.

Edit:
The sound sig has also grown on me a little more, maybe now that I'm not constantly fiddling for a good fit, I'm actually paying attention to how they sound. Once I've played around with the Jabra's, I'll come back to these and re-test the comfort. Amazon don't want these back til the end of January, so I've got a bit of time yet.


----------



## WesennTony

unfunk said:


> Hmm I exchanged my MW07, even in a different color too. But that rattling, loose component-like noise is still there in the left earbud.
> Sort of surprised I am the only one noticing this since its so audible/distracting while using them on a run.
> 
> Could any other MW07 owners give their left earbud a vigorous shake right beside their ear and let me know if they hear anything?
> I'm trying to determine if its just a quirk in all units, or if I am just really unlucky.


I tested and I did hear the rattling sound on the left bud


----------



## webvan

I've noticed that the Sabbat X12 that have been getting good reviews here are now available on Zapals for a low $35 and on Amazon for varying prices under various names, Gikersay, Audiioo, Lezii - I think I'll give them a try


----------



## unfunk

michaeljefford said:


> Checked the pair I have ready for return, can confirm a rattling in the left bud.





WesennTony said:


> I tested and I did hear the rattling sound on the left bud



Thanks guys.

Now I know I'll either have to live with it or try out the MTW.
So unfortunate as I liked the Mw07 a lot in every other regard.


----------



## WesennTony

unfunk said:


> Thanks guys.
> 
> Now I know I'll either have to live with it or try out the MTW.
> So unfortunate as I liked the Mw07 a lot in every other regard.


Now I'm concerned about the durability of MW07. Always has one issue or another on the left bud.


----------



## clerkpalmer

WesennTony said:


> I tested and I did hear the rattling sound on the left bud


Why would a rattle concern you?  I’m going to resist the urge to test mine. That’s just ridiculous if that’s a build issue. Could it be the manual switches?


----------



## WesennTony

clerkpalmer said:


> Why would a rattle concern you?  I’m going to resist the urge to test mine. That’s just ridiculous if that’s a build issue. Could it be the manual switches?


If only some of these have the rattling sound that could be a build issue. My first pair had issue of the left bud connecting to the right, and now the rattling sound, which definitely won't give me much confidence.


----------



## clerkpalmer

I'm on my 4th MW07 ... I keep coming back for that sweet sweet sound.


----------



## WesennTony

Multiple replacements may well justify my concern. They do sound great, which is the reason I may keep them and try to find an alternative for gym use. I've ordered sabbat x12 pro to see how they work.


----------



## hifi80sman

clerkpalmer said:


> I'm on my 4th MW07 ... I keep coming back for that sweet sweet sound.


HAHA, me too!  I had 3 Black and I just got the Tortoiseshell color.  Returned the E8 due to the poor call quality.

As far as the rattling, I don't hear it with weight training or shaking my head moderately.


----------



## clerkpalmer

I use mine in the gym for lifting.  When I hit cardio, I usually switch over to my Jabras so I can sweat without fear.  Yes, I am the dork with 2 sets of TW earbuds with him in the gym.


----------



## albau

clerkpalmer said:


> I use mine in the gym for lifting.  When I hit cardio, I usually switch over to my Jabras so I can sweat without fear.  Yes, I am the dork with 2 sets of TW earbuds with him in the gym.


Lol! Meet another dork with the same setup. Only I switch to 65t (with great regret) when MW07 start making terrible mumbling noises about soon getting out of juice, usually an hour ahead of when it actually does. 

Concerning rattle in the left MW07 earbud. If it wasn't mentioned here I would've never noticed it no matter how I move my head during workouts. Had to vigorously shake the earbud to hear some faint noise from within. Probably it's a gyroscope or something that senses in-ear placement, not a manufacturing bug. I remember there was minor hysteria about some new iPhone (I think) model few years back that had similar noise when you violently shake the phone. Apple said it was normal and by design.


----------



## albau

clerkpalmer said:


> I'm on my 4th MW07





hifi80sman said:


> I had 3 Black and I just got the Tortoiseshell color


Guys, what were the problems that made you cycle through so many specimen? I have BestBuy's special black MW07 and my only problem is 2.5 hour battery life. But I thought it's endemic to all of them. Or M&D has a new batch or something? Otherwise I love mine to pieces.


----------



## hifi80sman

albau said:


> Guys, what were the problems that made you cycle through so many specimen? I have BestBuy's special black MW07 and my only problem is 2.5 hour battery life. But I thought it's endemic to all of them. Or M&D has a new batch or something? Otherwise I love mine to pieces.


I may be more picky than the typical person.  1 of the Black pairs had a "soft" Vol. - button, meaning it was softer than all the other buttons.  While it still worked in general, it was mushy and the tactile feedback was such that it did't always register (to me) when pressed.  2 of the Black pairs get EXACTLY 2.5 hours at 40% volume.  The warning would appear somewhere around the 2 hour range.  I decided to go with the Tortoiseshell color, and interestingly, I'm getting about 40 mins more play time at 40% volume.  I'm still under 3.5 hours, but I can at least get a litte over 3 hours (although the last 30 mins has the low battery warning).  It's also interesting that Best Buy had the Black on sale for $225, but the other colors were still full price at $299.  Makes one ponder a bit...


----------



## clerkpalmer

I think it’s because the black is the least desirable and people are more excited about the fancy colors. I suspect the software is at fault for the battery life issues and there appears to be no remote way to fix it.


----------



## hifi80sman

clerkpalmer said:


> I think it’s because the black is the least desirable and people are more excited about the fancy colors. I suspect the software is at fault for the battery life issues and there appears to be no remote way to fix it.


Perhaps, although the chipset should be the same, as would the software, unless there were some tweaks in between build runs.  Having been in manufacturing in my pre-professional days, we would use assembly parts that were not always _exactly _the same or from the same supplier.  The only way to be sure is to disassemble 2 pairs of MW07s, but who the F is going to do that?!


----------



## albau

hifi80sman said:


> It's also interesting that Best Buy had the Black on sale for $225, but the other colors were still full price at $299. Makes one ponder a bit...


BestBuy Black is the one I have. Inetersting indeed. Anybody else with non-black MW07, how's your battery life?


----------



## albau (Dec 28, 2018)

hifi80sman said:


> Perhaps, although the chipset should be the same, as would the software, unless there were some tweaks in between build runs.  Having been in manufacturing in my pre-professional days, we would use assembly parts that were not always _exactly _the same or from the same supplier.  The only way to be sure is to disassemble 2 pairs of MW07s, but who the F is going to do that?!


I think somewhere earlier in this thread there was a link to MW07 tear-up that showed that M&D used the most "dumb" Qualcomm CSR chip that has inline DAC and non-upgradeable firmware or EQ (similar to RHA). I guess they went for it not so much because it's cheaper, but because this SoC is smaller and needs less juice. This leaves larger acoustic chamber to shape and more battery to drive huge, by TW standards, 10 mm custom dynamic driver with a stiff beryllium diaphragm. Me figures that M&D, like their Grado neighbors in Brooklyn, is first and foremost outfit with hi-fi acoustic expertise, not an electronic one. So they went the way to make good sound how they know best. I would argue that even if they skimped on something with discounted Best Buy version it must be batteries and/or left/right drivers matched with less tolerance. Just my speculations though, take it easy.


----------



## hifi80sman

albau said:


> I think somewhere earlier in this thread there was a link to MW07 tear-up that showed that M&D used the most "dumb" Qualcomm CSR chip that has inline DAC and non-upgradeable firmware or EQ (similar to RHA). I guess they went for it not so much because it's cheaper, but because this SoC is smaller and needs less juice. This leaves larger acoustic chamber to shape and more battery to drive huge, by TW standards, 10 mm custom dynamic driver with a stiff beryllium diaphragm. Me figures that M&D, like their Grado neighbors in Brooklyn, is first and foremost outfit with hi-fi acoustic expertise, not an electronic one. So they went the way to make good sound how they know best. I would argue that even if they skimped on something with discounted Best Buy version it must be batteries and/or left/right drivers matched with less tolerance. Just my speculations though, take it easy.


Quite logical.  I tend to follow the same thought.

For fun, you could always exchange for a different color and see if your results are different (assuming you actually want another color).  I didn't think I would like Tortoiseshell, but it's pretty nice.  There's some transparency in the acetate and the lights look cool shining thru it when taking it out of the case.  I usually pay cash so they cannot track my return patterns.  I also visit different Best Buys so I don't get "made".  My wife's like, "Why are you driving to the Best Buy 20 miles away?".  LOL!


----------



## jeffri

I finally finished my ATH-CKR7TW review 

https://jeffri.me/2018/12/audio-technica-ath-ckr7tw-true-wireless-review/


----------



## hifi80sman

jeffri said:


> I finally finished my ATH-CKR7TW review
> 
> https://jeffri.me/2018/12/audio-technica-ath-ckr7tw-true-wireless-review/


Great review!  Sounds like typical AT sound signature.  Looks nice, good codec support, but it's unfortunate you can't EQ via the app.  Other than the M50xBT and DSR9BT, I haven't had much success with AT's bright leaning sound signature.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

hifi80sman said:


> Great review!  Sounds like typical AT sound signature.  Looks nice, good codec support, but it's unfortunate you can't EQ via the app.  Other than the M50xBT and DSR9BT, I haven't had much success with AT's bright leaning sound signature.



I keep wanting to try the DSR9 but holy hell the DSR7 was unlistenable it was so bright. If their TW are similar that's a hard pass to me.


----------



## jeffri

Fortunately for IEM, we can do tips rolling to tweak the sound to some degree. I like darker sound better myself, but I still can stand the ATH-CKR7TW brightness. I'm using the true wireless Comply right now anyway, it suits my preference better using this eartips.


----------



## IpaqMan

I just picked up the Jabra Elite Active 65t from BestBuy.  The fit, features, and battery life are great.  I mostly listen to audiobooks, so battery life and track control are priorities.  I ran a battery life test playing an audiobook at moderate volume.  After six hours of continuous play, the 65t was down to 8 percent and a couple of low battery warnings.  

I wanted to try out a truly wireless for those situations where wires can get tangled or pulled.  

When I did SQ comparisons to a wired Bose SoundTrue earbuds using the old IASCO sound test, the main difference to me was the bass.  The lack of tip seal for me was the cause.

The three tip options were either too loose or too tight.  I got better bass with the large tip but there was some ear pain/itch after a while.   I did some experiments with other vendor tips.  Old medium Sony tips with a green stem provided similar bass to the Bose.  However, the Sony tip would sometimes come off in my ear and would not fit well in the charging case.  My solution was to cut off about 2 mm of the green stem and use a small strip of white silicone tape wrap (Loctite GO2 Wrap, often used for pipes) to secure the shortened green stem to the earbud speaker stem.  I pulled the tip inside out to get better access to the tip stem and the speaker stem.  This provides an air tight seal and a secure lock of the ear tip.  When you want to remove the ear tip, the silicone wrap can be unstuck from itself.  The tape leaves no residue.

I am very happy with the new fit of the 65t with the modified Sony earbud tips.  I can wear the 65t for hours with no discomfort.   The 65t fit fully into my ear so there is a minimum of protrusion from the ear.


----------



## howdy

The more I listen to these Senns the more I'm still liking! Which I have on now
I put them away the last couple of days and used the MW07. We finally got snow and have been using the MW07 while outside. Hopefully they can handle the cold as its finally coming and I like to listen to music while outside.


----------



## JustRon

Nice review of the AT. I was hoping with that big driver that these were going to be bass-heavy even though I know driver size isn’t going to necessarily affect the output.


----------



## clerkpalmer

Although i initially poo pood the lack of codec support, the rha true connect is a very solid option. I’ve been using them with comply tw tips and have been very impressed. The sq beats the the elite 65t. They remind me of the Bose soundsport free but with isolation which is a complement.  No connection issues and solid build quality. If you are in the market for a mid range choice, They are a very good choice at their current price. Biggest drawback is the lack of wings means fit is a little dicey but I haven’t had issues in the gym save for an adjustment here and there.


----------



## alchemical

clerkpalmer said:


> Although i initially poo pood the lack of codec support, the rha true connect is a very solid option. I’ve been using them with comply tw tips and have been very impressed. The sq beats the the elite 65t. They remind me of the Bose soundsport free but with isolation which is a complement.  No connection issues and solid build quality. If you are in the market for a mid range choice, They are a very good choice at their current price. Biggest drawback is the lack of wings means fit is a little dicey but I haven’t had issues in the gym save for an adjustment here and there.


Really interested in the True Connect but the amount of reviews mentioning the left bud connection issues on Amazon has made me hesitant - especially since being in Australia and there being no local sellers, returning would be a headache if I encounter similar issues. Your comments are encouraging though.


----------



## unfunk

clerkpalmer said:


> Why would a rattle concern you?  I’m going to resist the urge to test mine. That’s just ridiculous if that’s a build issue. Could it be the manual switches?



I don't notice the rattle at all sitting, walking, or doing any other exercises aside from running. It is extremely obvious there due to the large amount of up and down movement, as if you were vigorously shaking it beside your ear.
Ironic part is that my first pair rattled notably less than my current pair, but constantly exchanging them is quite the hassle especially when its a gamble each time.
So it seems to be a widespread issue to varying extents. 

If you haven't heard it yet based on your usage, I definitely wouldn't worry about it.


----------



## jeffri

JustRon said:


> Nice review of the AT. I was hoping with that big driver that these were going to be bass-heavy even though I know driver size isn’t going to necessarily affect the output.



The driver definitely can handle bass. It just tuned to a brighter signature, which if you like, you can EQ. I did to some extend, but I think my Note8 default EQ isn't really good, so I ended up turning it off.


----------



## webvan

IpaqMan said:


> I just picked up the Jabra Elite Active 65t from BestBuy.  The fit, features, and battery life are great.  I mostly listen to audiobooks, so battery life and track control are priorities.  I ran a battery life test playing an audiobook at moderate volume.  After six hours of continuous play, the 65t was down to 8 percent and a couple of low battery warnings.
> 
> I wanted to try out a truly wireless for those situations where wires can get tangled or pulled.
> 
> ...



Interesting, are these they hybrid (with foam inside) or standard sony tips ? I think I tried both but went back to the large stock tips even though the seal could be better in my right ear.

Also do you have a link for the "IASCO sound test" ? I googled it but came up empty handed, thanks.


----------



## IpaqMan (Dec 29, 2018)

webvan said:


> Interesting, are these they hybrid (with foam inside) or standard sony tips ? I think I tried both but went back to the large stock tips even though the seal could be better in my right ear.
> 
> Also do you have a link for the "IASCO sound test" ? I googled it but came up empty handed, thanks.


My mistake.  It is the IASCA Official Sound Quality CD.  This CD has left-right tests, in-phase audio tests, sound stage tests, as well as a wide variety of music selections as reference material.  There are a number of newer sound quality test CDs out there.

I used the non-foam filled Sony tips.  I have many of them and few of the foam filled ones.   The tips used are the ones with colored stems (red, green, lime, blue).  Most sets only have three sizes.   The green ones fit the best for my ears.   I had to find a way to secure the slightly loose fitting tip stem.  Any tape would work but the silicone tape leaves no residue.

BTW, trimming the stem is a good way to adjust how deep the tip fits into your ear canal and how it fits in the charging case.


----------



## turbobb

IpaqMan said:


> ...use a small strip of white silicone tape wrap (Loctite GO2 Wrap, often used for pipes) to secure the shortened green stem to the earbud speaker stem.  I pulled the tip inside out to get better access to the tip stem and the speaker stem.  This provides an air tight seal and a secure lock of the ear tip.  When you want to remove the ear tip, the silicone wrap can be unstuck from itself.  The tape leaves no residue.



Brilliant idea! I suppose the standard plumbing tape would work as well.


----------



## Boreaquis

The ATs seem really nice. Too bad they're not waterproof, and the "Sport" version seems really poor in comparison.


----------



## Terminator3000

Anybody tried the JVC XX In - Earbuds.

https://www.argos.co.uk/product/8354239


----------



## turbobb

@hifi80sman - decided to take a crack at the Mpow T5. Despite some shady reviews (one claims to have been using them for a year despite that these were seemingly released in Aug and another that claimed the pair was < $20...) there was a recent positive review by "worshipPastor" that actually sounded like the guy knew what he was talking about and he confirmed AAC so I'm assuming it does have aptX. The product page mentions that it utilizes Qualcomm's 3026 chip which on the data sheet (https://www.qualcomm.com/media/documents/files/qcc30xx-series-product-brief.pdf) confirms aptX feature as well as cVc. Should get it on the 2nd and will report back after I've had some time with them.


----------



## mikp

turbobb said:


> @hifi80sman - decided to take a crack at the Mpow T5. Despite some shady reviews (one claims to have been using them for a year despite that these were seemingly released in Aug and another that claimed the pair was < $20...) there was a recent positive review by "worshipPastor" that actually sounded like the guy knew what he was talking about and he confirmed AAC so I'm assuming it does have aptX. The product page mentions that it utilizes Qualcomm's 3026 chip which on the data sheet (https://www.qualcomm.com/media/documents/files/qcc30xx-series-product-brief.pdf) confirms aptX feature as well as cVc. Should get it on the 2nd and will report back after I've had some time with them.



Also test the functions of the buttons. I have seen those here, but it took awhile  before being available on sites as ali under the name mpow.


----------



## hifi80sman

turbobb said:


> @hifi80sman - decided to take a crack at the Mpow T5. Despite some shady reviews (one claims to have been using them for a year despite that these were seemingly released in Aug and another that claimed the pair was < $20...) there was a recent positive review by "worshipPastor" that actually sounded like the guy knew what he was talking about and he confirmed AAC so I'm assuming it does have aptX. The product page mentions that it utilizes Qualcomm's 3026 chip which on the data sheet (https://www.qualcomm.com/media/documents/files/qcc30xx-series-product-brief.pdf) confirms aptX feature as well as cVc. Should get it on the 2nd and will report back after I've had some time with them.


The product brief is quite the stat sheet.  Looking forward to your impressions!


----------



## Luchyres

Terminator3000 said:


> Anybody tried the JVC XX In - Earbuds.
> 
> https://www.argos.co.uk/product/8354239


Ahhh I would but the lack of any codec support kills me.


----------



## Terminator3000

Says it supports SBC/AAC on here https://uk.jvc.com/headphones/xx/HA-XC70BT/

I really like the design of them so wouldn't mind trying them out.


----------



## chinmie

Terminator3000 said:


> Says it supports SBC/AAC on here https://uk.jvc.com/headphones/xx/HA-XC70BT/
> 
> I really like the design of them so wouldn't mind trying them out.



battery only 3 hours, bluetooth 4.2, and no AAC on android...it looks good, but i think i would pass. 

the MPow is on my radar also, but initial reviews on amazon and aliexpress is not very convincing


----------



## webvan (Dec 30, 2018)

That worshipPastor review looks legit to me and it's pretty positive. I wonder if I haven't seen videos by this guy on YT where he got some custom IEMs made.

I thought that new QC3026 chipset had built-in ANC but maybe it's just a more advanced CVC for speech?

Also is it aptX or aptX HD too as shown in one of the pictures?


----------



## michaeljefford

Ok, so I've returned all my test TWE's, leaving me with just my trusty Senns, for the time being. My last pair to test will be the RHA's.

I've checked back through this thread for the best alternatives to the stock tips, and seen both Symbio & Comply mentioned. I've got the Comply Truly Wireless tips as recommended by them, and they're ok but not the best. Any recommendations?

Whilst those and the stock tips technically fit fine, after 20-30 minutes I get a little pain, but only in the left ear. I have attempted using a small tip for that ear, whilst leaving the medium one on the right, but that only makes it a little less irritating for a bit longer .

I absolutely love the sound of these, so I'm not giving up on them just yet.


----------



## howdy

michaeljefford said:


> Ok, so I've returned all my test TWE's, leaving me with just my trusty Senns, for the time being. My last pair to test will be the RHA's.
> 
> I've checked back through this thread for the best alternatives to the stock tips, and seen both Symbio & Comply mentioned. I've got the Comply Truly Wireless tips as recommended by them, and they're ok but not the best. Any recommendations?
> 
> ...


Spin fit are a great choice as well.


----------



## smaragd

Spin Fit are indeed a good choice but they don’t isolate that well for my small ears... 
I have better experience with Final Audio’s silicone tips.


----------



## michaeljefford

howdy said:


> Spin fit are a great choice as well.



Thanks for the recommendation. I've looked at getting them, however I'd have to import them via Amazon US.

The symbio's look to be my next try - https://www.audiosanctuary.co.uk/mandarines-symbio-eartips-n-normal-bore.html


----------



## korefuji

michaeljefford said:


> Thanks for the recommendation. I've looked at getting them, however I'd have to import them via Amazon US.
> 
> The symbio's look to be my next try - https://www.audiosanctuary.co.uk/mandarines-symbio-eartips-n-normal-bore.html



I've ordered Spinfits from the US visa Amazon UK, they arrived within a week, but cost £8 in total inc del. The comply were far more expensive though to import.


----------



## michaeljefford

korefuji said:


> I've ordered Spinfits from the US visa Amazon UK, they arrived within a week, but cost £8 in total inc del. The comply were far more expensive though to import.



Same for me with Comply, I got hit with extra customs charges. If I'm looking correctly the Spinfit Model is CP100Z? My only issue is that I'd have to order 2 different sizes.


----------



## korefuji

I believe that's correct the cp100z, although it seems amazon uk no longer stock them via amazon us. So i guess you would have to order directly from Amazon US, though they include taxes and charges in the final price iirc


----------



## nc8000

korefuji said:


> I've ordered Spinfits from the US visa Amazon UK, they arrived within a week, but cost £8 in total inc del. The comply were far more expensive though to import.



I also ordered spinfit via Amazon UK and payed extra for guarantied delivery before Christmas but they have not arrived yet


----------



## howdy

After a lot of tip rolling and try with and without the wing tips I just can't get the right ear to seal correctly again. I have decided that better than just letting collect dust I'm going to return them and be happy with my Senns and E8s.


----------



## sly_in_the_sky (Dec 30, 2018)

Has someone the same problem as me with the right piece of the senns sometimes not taking commands into account at all ( volume, transparent hearing)? The only way for them to work again is to put them into the case and take them out but the issue remains... I have resetted the buds but nothing to do... 

Thank you a lot.


----------



## webvan

My Sabbat X12 Pro (Lezii on Amazon) arrived today and I've been putting them through their paces...literally since I ran a 10k with them right off the bat ! I hadn't listened to music during a race for years but I went solo on this one so why not. The good news is that they did not fall out even though this is pretty much maximal exertion and the provided some "distraction" while not cutting me off completely from my surroundings courtesy of their total lack of isolation. But for running that's great because you stay aware and there is none of that painful "thump" in your ear canals.

They are not the most comfortable TWEs with their hard "earbuds" quite similar to the Plantronics Fit but they produce a much more pleasing sound with a decent measure of bass. The controls are well designed with both track skipping and volume control. The noise floor is very low too which never hurts.

On the way back on the train I switched to the 65Ts of course.


----------



## Chrisdu18e

michaeljefford said:


> Thanks for the recommendation. I've looked at getting them, however I'd have to import them via Amazon US.
> 
> The symbio's look to be my next try - https://www.audiosanctuary.co.uk/mandarines-symbio-eartips-n-normal-bore.html


I bought the symbio for my Senn' and I'm really happy with the result. Obviously, It depends on your fit but I I recommend them to you.


----------



## howdy

sly_in_the_sky said:


> Has someone the same problem as me with the right piece of the senns sometimes not taking commands into account at all ( volume, transparent hearing)? The only way for them to work again is to put them into the case and take them out but the issue remains... I have resetted the buds but nothing to do...
> 
> Thank you a lot.


Knock on wood I have not had any issues so far and the fit it great. The Senns and E8 have that same kind of fit for me. 
I really liked the of the MW07 but the right ear fit is not working for me, and I know its my ear as I've had issues for years finding ones that fit good, which is one reason I ended up getting CIEMs.


----------



## michaeljefford

Chrisdu18e said:


> I bought the symbio for my Senn' and I'm really happy with the result. Obviously, It depends on your fit but I I recommend them to you.



Anything's worth a try  

Thanks for the recommendation, I'm assuming the 'Normal Bore' are the ones I am after (3.5mm diameter), as apposed to the Large Bore (4.5mm)?


----------



## michaeljefford

howdy said:


> After a lot of tip rolling and try with and without the wing tips I just can't get the right ear to seal correctly again. I have decided that better than just letting collect dust I'm going to return them and be happy with my Senns and E8s.



The exact conclusion I came to. They are the only pair so far that I had a fit issue in the right ear. All other pairs, it has been an iffy Left Ear fit.

Don't think I'm going near the E8, tried the H9i's earlier in the year, and was not happy with treble heavy sound, and from what I've read the E8's are similar in that regard.


----------



## turbobb

webvan said:


> I thought that new QC3026 chipset had built-in ANC but maybe it's just a more advanced CVC for speech?
> 
> Also is it aptX or aptX HD too as shown in one of the pictures?



ANC only applies to their cVc tech for mic use during calls and not for audio playback.

The 3026 only has aptX, only the 3034 has aptX HD.


----------



## voicemaster

Just got QCY T1 out of curiosity with low expectation that it will sound average, but it does sound freaking good imho. No muddy/boomy bass, clear mid, clear treble and it sounds pretty natural imho which is quite surprising for OEM "true wireless" IEM. Connection is pretty good and only experienced 2-3x left side drop out for 1 sec, otherwise it is pretty solid. 
I noticed that when watching youtube, there is no delay between audio and video, but when I use VLC on my cellphone, there is a delay of -250ms from the audio and luckily I can adjust it on VLC. A minor problem that happened to me is I like using foam tips on my IEM and I tried using foam tips on it. It fits fine, but when I try to put the IEM into the case, the foam tip is too long, so it won't charge the IEM. To fix this, I just cut the tips about 2mm from the back and it fit just fine. I got around 4 hours per charge using it with my PC at home, haven't used more than 1 hours outside tho so I can't comment on that.
The only negative is that it doesn't support aptX, AAC and so on, but considering the usage of this "true wireless" IEM (travelling in the train and bus, using it at lunch break and so on) and it comes with bluetooth V5.0, it is not that big of a problem, at least for me.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

NGL part of me is sorely tempted to go back to the MW07 since I don't need them for the gym anymore. Just... gah, Best Buy, get some of the MTW in stock dammit.


----------



## Terminator3000

Any of you lot tried the ATH-SPORT7TWBK Audio Technica? Can't see any reviews anywhere.


----------



## clerkpalmer

Terminator3000 said:


> Any of you lot tried the ATH-SPORT7TWBK Audio Technica? Can't see any reviews anywhere.


Not available yet in the us.


----------



## clerkpalmer

SomeGuyDude said:


> NGL part of me is sorely tempted to go back to the MW07 since I don't need them for the gym anymore. Just... gah, Best Buy, get some of the MTW in stock dammit.



I got a set of mw50 wireless for Xmas and while very nice I honestly think the mw07 may sound better. They are that good.


----------



## Terminator3000

clerkpalmer said:


> Not available yet in the us.



Ah ok. I've only seen them at one place online in the UK to be honest. I can get them for £130 on a selling site here so thought I see if any of you guys had tried them out.

I might just get the MW07' as I see you guys highly rate them (Apart from the battery) one thing that puts me off them is the 'hiss' you mentioned in the left ear bud. I messaged M&D about this and got this reply...

"You may hear some audible frequency noise from the left bud when not playing music through the headphones. We do have a noise floor that is low, so you may hear some audible frequency sound when no music is playing within the left ear when it is searching for its pair. This static is something that may occur in NFMI products. I am currently researching with my team causes and solutions for the small static hum you may hear from time to time. In the future, there may be a firmware update- or there may be a hardware update if necessary. I just need to identify this issue, see how many users are affected, find an acceptable solution, and see if it is a larger issue that will need to be addressed in a more widespread messaging. Thanks for bearing with me- I appreciate you reporting this to me and will have my product team pay special attention in their testing moving forward. Best, Jason
"


----------



## clerkpalmer

I got the same response from them. I’m over the hiss issue. It’s not that bad and it seems to be better on the newer ones I have. It gets drowned out when music is playing. I agree with others that M&D is not a high end electronics company but really more an audio company. So they put their resources into the best driver and sound quality they could. Hence no app, fancy hear through and bt 4.2. I happen to prefer the physical buttons to touch. Battery is probably a byproduct of the big drivers and BT 4.2n 

I’m going to grab the AT sports when they get released. Just because I need another toy.


----------



## Amedm96

I want to buy a bluetooth iem with nice mic wired or free not neckband style i dont care much about SQ I need good battery (6h+) most importantly good mic like uflex's mic 
does anything like that exist under 60$ and it must be durable 60$ is roughly 25% of my salary


----------



## hifi80sman (Jan 1, 2019)

SomeGuyDude said:


> NGL part of me is sorely tempted to go back to the MW07 since I don't need them for the gym anymore. Just... gah, Best Buy, get some of the MTW in stock dammit.


LOL! Dude, I'm in the same boat, except maybe a a few days ahead. I re-purchased the MW07 and have been using the Bose SoundSport Free, Zolo Liberty+, and these guys at the gym. The B-Qtech TWE have a great bass slam (emotional) and get loud, but the sound is thick and dark. So yes, good for a loud gym where you need the volume without the upper end piercing your ears, but not a good choice for just casual listening at home.

I also bought the Samsung Icon X (2018) from Costco yesterday and the sound is OK when using the Android EQ (Samsung Galaxy s8) to pump up the low end a bit, clean out the high-bass/low-mids, and lower the 10 kHz spike (I think all manufacturers are pushing the 10 kHz spike), but pretty blah out of the box. i think I'm going to return them, though.


----------



## Terminator3000

clerkpalmer said:


> I got the same response from them. I’m over the hiss issue. It’s not that bad and it seems to be better on the newer ones I have. It gets drowned out when music is playing. I agree with others that M&D is not a high end electronics company but really more an audio company. So they put their resources into the best driver and sound quality they could. Hence no app, fancy hear through and bt 4.2. I happen to prefer the physical buttons to touch. Battery is probably a byproduct of the big drivers and BT 4.2n
> 
> I’m going to grab the AT sports when they get released. Just because I need another toy.



No excuses for the price they are though really. I can pick a new pair up for £190 so I might as well but on Amazon they're £280. Yeah I prefer buttons as well.


----------



## clerkpalmer

Terminator3000 said:


> No excuses for the price they are though really. I can pick a new pair up for £190 so I might as well but on Amazon they're £280. Yeah I prefer buttons as well.


Completely agree which is why I returned several pairs. When it became apparent that it wasn’t going to get fixed and after deciding they sound better than the MTW ( at least to me) I decided to just live with it. It still irks me that a 300 product isn’t perfect but I’ve spent more on worse ...


----------



## hifi80sman (Dec 31, 2018)

clerkpalmer said:


> I got a set of mw50 wireless for Xmas and while very nice I honestly think the mw07 may sound better. They are that good.


I had the MW50+, the one you could switch from on-ear to over-ear.  They were "good", but I didn't end up keeping them, as the price/performance wasn't there.  Sound leak on those was pretty bad (over-ear configuration) as was isolation, so it wasn't a viable solution in most cases.  I do enjoy the MW07 more than I did MW50+. 

I find transparency on the MW07 to be the best of all TWEs I've ever tried, which is quite a few, sans MTW.  However, given the MTW has a 7 mm driver, I'm not optimistic it can best the MW07 in terms of transparency.


----------



## clerkpalmer

hifi80sman said:


> I had the MW50+, the one you could switch from on-ear to over-ear.  They were "good", but I didn't end up keeping them, as the price/performance wasn't there.  Sound leak on those was pretty bad (over-ear configuration) as was isolation, so it wasn't a viable solution in most cases.  I do enjoy the MW07 more than I did MW50+



I got them for a stupidly low price otherwise I agree price performance they are a tough sell.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

hifi80sman said:


> LOL!  Dude, I'm in the same boat, except maybe a a few days ahead.  I re-purchased the MW07 and have been using the Bose SoundSport Free, Zolo Liberty+, and these guys at the gym.  The B-Qtech TWE have a great bass slam (emotional) and get loud, but the sound is thick and dark.  So yes, good for a loud gym where you need the volume without the upper end piercing your ears, but not a good choice for just casual listening at home.
> 
> I also bought the Samsung Icon X (2018) from Costco yesterday and the sound is OK when using the Android EQ (Samsung Galaxy s8) to pump up the low end a bit, clean out the high-bass/low-mids, and lower the 10 kHz spike (I think all manufacturers are pushing the 10 kHz spike), but pretty blah out of the box.  i think I'm going to return them, though.



I use the UnderArmour Project Rock when I lift (the clamp is amazing and they breath so my ear canals don't get all gross like with the TWE), so really it's just when I'm either running errands or working at the courthouse and I think if I can get 3hr battery life out of the MW07 that's all I need. 

It's honestly just down to if I want to stick with the MW07 or roll the dice on the Momentums. 

I will say if I were going M&D big boys the MW60 is pretty damn sick, but I love my Crossfade 2 Wireless to pieces so I'm set on that front. Yeah I like bassy headphones lol


----------



## Luchyres

Amedm96 said:


> I want to buy a bluetooth iem with nice mic wired or free not neckband style i dont care much about SQ I need good battery (6h+) most importantly good mic like uflex's mic
> does anything like that exist under 60$ and it must be durable 60$ is roughly 25% of my salary



Honestly, someone else may have a TWE they recommend, but in your case I'd encourage you to check out the Radsone EarStudio ($100 on sale for $80) recently -


SomeGuyDude said:


> I use the UnderArmour Project Rock when I lift (the clamp is amazing and they breath so my ear canals don't get all gross like with the TWE), so really it's just when I'm either running errands or working at the courthouse and I think if I can get 3hr battery life out of the MW07 that's all I need.
> 
> It's honestly just down to if I want to stick with the MW07 or roll the dice on the Momentums.
> 
> I will say if I were going M&D big boys the MW60 is pretty damn sick, but I love my Crossfade 2 Wireless to pieces so I'm set on that front. Yeah I like bassy headphones lol




I loved the Crossfade 2 as well - but I sold them as I never wear over-head headphones even though I like them. Selling them is what let me buy the MTW - but I like the sound of the Crossfade 2 more than the MTW (Apples and Oranges, but another data point). 

Curious to hear your thoughts on the MW07 sound, but I'm waiting for their next product to see what gains they make on the electronics/battery life side.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

I actually had the MW07 once already but I was using them in the gym and the crap battery life made them a problem for me. I'll give an updated impression when I snag the new set provided I don't go MTW.


----------



## mikp

I am now waiting for the aptx-hd that should be coming next year. Did test the sennheiser in a shop and not found that much difference from my mavin air-x. The mavin folks has been a little relaxed about support, but after an email I did get an updated pdf manual with reset\clear instructions.  So far for sound mavin is my best, and jabra 65t for outdoors. 

Too bad the it seems multipoint is not considered anymore


----------



## kiwikozo (Dec 31, 2018)

Ah another pair to look at. Mavin Air-X have a 10 hour battery life, bluetooth 5.0, aptx, and quick charge. Seems to be very few reviews. Price isn't bad either $160 shipped to the UK.

I want to try a pair and compare to the Earin M2.


----------



## hifi80sman (Dec 31, 2018)

SomeGuyDude said:


> I actually had the MW07 once already but I was using them in the gym and the **** battery life made them a problem for me. I'll give an updated impression when I snag the new set provided I don't go MTW.


If you end up going MW07 and another color, curious if the battery life will be better than the Black version.

I eventually came to the same conclusion; the MW07 for casual, enjoyable listening.  My gym setup is good to go anyway, but the sound on the MW07 is so addicting I wanted them for the gym as well!  Alas, all things not possible.  Oh, and they look absolutely fantastic on.  They don't stick out at all.

I'll probably still pickup the MTW once they become available in-store, since I hate returning via mail.


----------



## Terminator3000

clerkpalmer said:


> Completely agree which is why I returned several pairs. When it became apparent that it wasn’t going to get fixed and after deciding they sound better than the MTW ( at least to me) I decided to just live with it. It still irks me that a 300 product isn’t perfect but I’ve spent more on worse ...



It's even more frustrating when you're looking at the £30-40 Earbuds that have features that the MW07' don't 

I've ordered the Tortoise Shell ones anyway and I'll see how they are.


----------



## Ocelitgol

kiwikozo said:


> Ah another pair to look at. Mavin Air-X have a 10 hour battery life, bluetooth 5.0, aptx, and quick charge. Seems to be very few reviews. Price isn't bad either $160 shipped to the UK.
> 
> I want to try a pair and compare to the Earin M2.



you won't get 10hrs battery...more like 7, it's still very good. The build is plastic, not premium but not bad. No multi-point, call quality is fairly good, SQ is good. It's great for its price


----------



## SomeGuyDude

hifi80sman said:


> If you end up going MW07 and another color, curious if the battery life will be better than the Black version.
> 
> I eventually came to the same conclusion; the MW07 for casual, enjoyable listening.  My gym setup is good to go anyway, but the sound on the MW07 is so addicting I wanted them for the gym as well!  Alas, all things not possible.  Oh, and they look absolutely fantastic on.  They don't stick out at all.
> 
> I'll probably still pickup the MTW once they become available in-store, since I hate returning via mail.



Seems like the other colors aren't available in too many BB's, which is a shame. I'll see what I can snag, though.


----------



## hifi80sman (Jan 1, 2019)

If anyone is interested in some bass cannon TWEs for the gym, the B-Qtech work well for me.  The stock eartips are trash, so I was fortunate to have some extra Bose SoundSport eartips and the fit like a glove.  As I noted before, these have a great bass slam and get loud, but the sound is thick and dark. Works well if you need to pump up the volume in a loud gym without the treble killing your ears.  They are certainly NOT a good choice outside the gym, despite the description saying they have "HD" sound.  It's definitely not "HD".  With the SoundSport eartips, they are champs at the gym. The only quirk is I have to remove the tips before charging.  I haven't actually tested the battery life (rated at 6 hours), but I had no issues after 2.5 hours at 40% volume or so.  Nice metal case.  For $45, I'm satisfied.


----------



## hifi80sman

SomeGuyDude said:


> Seems like the other colors aren't available in too many BB's, which is a shame. I'll see what I can snag, though.


What's funny, is it looks like some Nordstrom stores actually have them in stock.  One near me has Grey Terrazzo.

https://shop.nordstrom.com/s/master-dynamic-mw07-true-wireless-headphones/5070488


----------



## nerdydaddyo

I swear by Comply Foam tips and have for years. Zero irritation, good seal, and generally makes the setup look better IMO. I've tried others but I've had a lot of audio seepage during movement. Guess it depends on the ear and personal preference, but they definitely have my vote.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

Back to the MW07, and I got 'em in Tortoiseshell! First observations coming from the e8:


God I love buttons vs touch controls. I can fiddle the MW07 around to get them properly situated without turning them off/on or going into ambient mode.
To me, the e8 is more comfortable but the wings make the MW07 more secure. So the wings stay on.
The e8 really do sound amazing, or at least the pair I had did. However, the MW07 does edge them out. There's a "fullness" despite not being as bassy as I had the e8 EQ'd to be, leaving them sounding seriously like a pair of wired headphones. 
Battery I'm not sure about yet, but preliminary tests are better than my first pair. I wonder if it was an early model that was having issues? We'll keep testing. 
That's all so far, but in a few days I'll see what I think. Do the Comply tips work on the MW07?


----------



## WesennTony

I contacted Comply some time ago. They recommended T-160 for MW07


----------



## firewatersun

While waiting for my new MW07s to arrive, I decided to look at some Amazon reviews - I came across a review mentioning bad battery quality, and Master & Dynamic responded saying they might have a defective battery and to contact them as there was a 2 year warranty. This might explain some of the very low battery life that earlier posts complained about?

I copied the post:
"
Master & Dynamic 11 days ago
It is possible you have a defective battery, which is covered under our 2-year warranty. Please contact us at <support@masterdynamic.com> for warranty service and support.
"


----------



## Tommy C

firewatersun said:


> While waiting for my new MW07s to arrive, I decided to look at some Amazon reviews - I came across a review mentioning bad battery quality, and Master & Dynamic responded saying they might have a defective battery and to contact them as there was a 2 year warranty. This might explain some of the very low battery life that earlier posts complained about?
> 
> I copied the post:
> "
> ...



Sounds a bit odd. Generally speaking those tiny batteries are fairly reliable.  It’s much more common for certain devices to drain too much power from the batteries. 
You can do a simple test if specs allow this. If one earbud losing power too fast and the other bud is still good you know it’s a bad battery but if both run out of juice at the same time you know it’s something to do with the earphones. Now, this test works with Jabra since you can use only the master without the slave, not sure if it works the same way with the Master and Dynamic though.


----------



## howdy

SomeGuyDude said:


> Back to the MW07, and I got 'em in Tortoiseshell! First observations coming from the e8:
> 
> 
> God I love buttons vs touch controls. I can fiddle the MW07 around to get them properly situated without turning them off/on or going into ambient mode.
> ...


Are you still going to give the Senns a go? 

Still really loving the sound and fit of the Senns. After returning the MW07 I picked up the Sennheiser PXC550 and just happy as S&!t with them. Really great sound comfort and 30 hours battery life.


----------



## god-bluff (Jan 1, 2019)

nerdydaddyo said:


> I swear by Comply Foam tips and have for years. Zero irritation, good seal, and generally makes the setup look better IMO. I've tried others but I've had a lot of audio seepage during movement. Guess it depends on the ear and personal preference, but they definitely have my vote.


I've always found that complys dull the treble make things a bit dull. I prefer Blackbird tips, they don't seem to alter the sound and are more hard-wearing. I think they are UK only though

No foams on my NWF-1000X though; the standard silicone tips are perfect.


----------



## nerdydaddyo

god-bluff said:


> I've always found that complys dull the treble make things a bit dull. I prefer Blackbird tips, they don't seem to alter the sound and are more hard-wearing. I think they are UK only though
> 
> No foams on my NWF-1000X though; the standard silicone tips are perfect.



I tried looking up BlackBird but their site doesn't give much info. Seems they aren't sold many places. 

Someone has me sold on the JVC Spiral Dots. That may be my next investment. Comply is amazing, but as anyone here who has had them knows, they degrade fast. The perils of foam I guess . Until then, I have 6 backup pairs of Comply until I either go for the Spiral Dots or find a more recent alternative. Can't do silicone. Not good for the ear.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

howdy said:


> Are you still going to give the Senns a go?
> 
> Still really loving the sound and fit of the Senns. After returning the MW07 I picked up the Sennheiser PXC550 and just happy as S&!t with them. Really great sound comfort and 30 hours battery life.



I'll keep an eye out for them. If they pop up at a Best Buy I'll take a pair for a test drive. The PXC550 are really fantastic, too. I came crazy close to getting a pair of those.


----------



## howdy

SomeGuyDude said:


> I'll keep an eye out for them. If they pop up at a Best Buy I'll take a pair for a test drive. The PXC550 are really fantastic, too. I came crazy close to getting a pair of those.


Best buy matched Amazon so I got them for 218.00. They do sound Amazing I have been listening to them a good position of the day which I'm unable to do with the XM2 as they aren't as comfortable.


----------



## jeffri

nerdydaddyo said:


> I tried looking up BlackBird but their site doesn't give much info. Seems they aren't sold many places.
> 
> Someone has me sold on the JVC Spiral Dots. That may be my next investment. Comply is amazing, but as anyone here who has had them knows, they degrade fast. The perils of foam I guess . Until then, I have 6 backup pairs of Comply until I either go for the Spiral Dots or find a more recent alternative. Can't do silicone. Not good for the ear.



Umm... Spiral dots is silicon. I'll recommend Dekoni foam if you wanted a foam that is more durable. Though, it doesn't have TWE variant so you possibly had to cut it off a bit.


----------



## nerdydaddyo

jeffri said:


> Umm... Spiral dots is silicon. I'll recommend Dekoni foam if you wanted a foam that is more durable. Though, it doesn't have TWE variant so you possibly had to cut it off a bit.



Looked up Dekoni. Looks a lot like Comply as well. Did some research on Spinfit, saw a lot of people unhappy with audio quality but happy with seal and fit. I don't typically like silicone since that's usually the included set with IEMs, but I thought the Spiral Dots were made of something other than silicone . Is there any other material out there that can provide the audio quality of foam with the the durability of silicone? I haven't read up on hybrids yet. As much as I love Comply and foam for sound, I need something that can take mowing the lawn more than a handful of times before changing. Washable would be nice.


----------



## jeffri

Dekoni is surely more durable than Comply. Sony made a foam-like eartips, but isn't actually made out of foam. It's called EP-TC50 I think. You wear it like a silicon, no need for squeezing first, but has a foam-like comfort.


----------



## nerdydaddyo

jeffri said:


> Dekoni is surely more durable than Comply. Sony made a foam-like eartips, but isn't actually made out of foam. It's called EP-TC50 I think. You wear it like a silicon, no need for squeezing first, but has a foam-like comfort.



I'm game. I'll check them out. So setting aside dislike for silicone,  are Spiral Dots worth the try? I did like the look of the BlackBird set but yes, UK mainly and I need to make sure the fitment for core and ear are right .I put myself around 13mm for outer diameter, 4mm to 5mm for core. With a lot of ear tips it's hard to confirm that info on their sites .


----------



## firewatersun

jeffri said:


> Dekoni is surely more durable than Comply. Sony made a foam-like eartips, but isn't actually made out of foam. It's called EP-TC50 I think. You wear it like a silicon, no need for squeezing first, but has a foam-like comfort.



Also called Triple Comfort if you're searching on eBay - first tried them when they came with a WF-1000X, they're possibly the most comfy tips I've used - comfort of foam with the ease of silicone, with none of the ear canal pressure that sometimes comes with hybrids like Symbios.

Only issue is isolation isn't as good as full foams like Complys, but better than silicone. They really are a midway between the two kind of option.


----------



## webvan

So are these the "mushy" and nice smelling tips that come with the WF-1000x.on top of the standard silicone tips? I haven't found them to work well for me for fit and isolation , in fact I put some old Sony hybrids on my WF that I can ram in my canals with little discomfort.

As for Complys I'm done with them, good isolation but sound very muffled and terrible durability.


----------



## WesennTony

To me not all the silicone tips are the same. While I had bad experience with some stock tips, I always find spiral dots, spinfits, and Sony are very comfortable.


----------



## WesennTony

Last couple of days I tried the Sabbat x12 pro for gym use. They sound surprisingly good, neutral and balanced, not harsh at all. But the complete lack of sound isolation annoys me in a noisy gym. So my mw07 still needs to take the job


----------



## jeffri

nerdydaddyo said:


> I'm game. I'll check them out. So setting aside dislike for silicone,  are Spiral Dots worth the try? I did like the look of the BlackBird set but yes, UK mainly and I need to make sure the fitment for core and ear are right .I put myself around 13mm for outer diameter, 4mm to 5mm for core. With a lot of ear tips it's hard to confirm that info on their sites .



Spiral dots is fine, it's on the more rigid side instead of soft like Spinfit and doesn't insert too deep. I quite like the sound it produces.


----------



## WesennTony (Jan 2, 2019)

kevinscottcaja said:


> Hello all, so I got both the Mavin Air-X and the Mifo O5 (Balanced armature version). The Mavin Air-X is priced around 129USD and I got the Mifo O5 at a very cheap price of HK$160 (20.50USD) due to coupon discounts I got for a local store here in Hong Kong, their original price is HK$599 (US$76.70) which is cheaper than Aliexpress.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I'm interested in Mifo O5 now. Great comparison! Could you tell me which version (standard or pro ) is using dynamic driver? I googled it and found different answers. Some also refer to a Sports edition, which I assume is the standard one? And how can I tell which version I have without opening the box?


----------



## TYATYA (Jan 2, 2019)

MTW is f**king sound from Sennh.
I cant stand its sound.
It will break my hearing capability with its bass+sub bass. Have almost zero upper bass.

If you eat to much sugar, any apple will be tasteless.

P.S I heard someone in local forum said that MTW needs 100hour for correctly responds. Any one can confirm this?

Sennh momentium wireless is a very bad cans too. My best correction eq for it is below. Acceptable the sound, but most daps wont active eq on blutooth headphone (while all smartphone does)


----------



## ocalderon

turbobb said:


> @hifi80sman - decided to take a crack at the Mpow T5. Despite some shady reviews (one claims to have been using them for a year despite that these were seemingly released in Aug and another that claimed the pair was < $20...) there was a recent positive review by "worshipPastor" that actually sounded like the guy knew what he was talking about and he confirmed AAC so I'm assuming it does have aptX. The product page mentions that it utilizes Qualcomm's 3026 chip which on the data sheet (https://www.qualcomm.com/media/documents/files/qcc30xx-series-product-brief.pdf) confirms aptX feature as well as cVc. Should get it on the 2nd and will report back after I've had some time with them.



Looking forward to read your review! I bought the Jabra Elite Active 65t from ebay but were stolen or lost by USPS  so i ran out of money to buy another pair. I was searching in aliexpress or gearbest and i found a couple of interesting and cheap earbuds. At first i found blitzwolf BW-FYE4 which have realtek chipset, but reading a little bit i can see they don't support Apt-X. Then i found that MPOW have the T2, T3, T5, T6 and T7. It's overwhelming the number of TWEs they have. From these, i can see T5 support Apt-X and CvC 8, while T6 and T7 doesn't (I could confirm this on facebook chat with somebody from MPOW). So it seems T5 are the best candidates if you're looking for Apt-X support and CvC.

Where is that review from worshipPastor you're talking about? I'm interested in read it.


----------



## nerdydaddyo

TYATYA said:


> MTW is f**king sound from Sennh.
> I cant stand its sound.
> It will break my hearing capability with its bass+sub bass. Have almost zero upper bass.
> 
> ...




MTW? Is that a brand or an acronym for a saying?

Any opinions on Noble Audio? Their IEMs are too rich for my blood, but I'm really interested in their BTS receiver.


----------



## korefuji

nerdydaddyo said:


> MTW? Is that a brand or an acronym for a saying?
> 
> Any opinions on Noble Audio? Their IEMs are too rich for my blood, but I'm really interested in their BTS receiver.



Acronym for Momentum True Wireless by Sennheiser


----------



## TYATYA (Jan 2, 2019)

nerdydaddyo said:


> MTW? Is that a brand or an acronym for a saying?
> 
> Any opinions on Noble Audio? Their IEMs are too rich for my blood, but I'm really interested in their BTS receiver.


MTW stands for Sennheiser momentium true wireless inear.
It is most high but too bad sq (Nuheara at $700 but I havent listen yet)

P.S sorry gymmer guys and weighlifting guys, I think they love it


----------



## nerdydaddyo

korefuji said:


> Acronym for Momentum True Wireless by Sennheiser


Thanks. My current set are the HD1 Free. I guess that would make it HD1F.

As far as MTW, those were on the radar for possible next purchase. Waiting to see if my Xfyro Arias ever arrive first.


----------



## hifi80sman

Interesting review:


----------



## WesennTony

TYATYA said:


> MTW stands for Sennheiser momentium true wireless inear.
> It is most high but too bad sq (Nuheara at $700 but I havent listen yet)
> 
> P.S sorry gymmer guys and weighlifting guys, I think they love it


That's where the name "Momentum" comes from. They're not like any of Senns headphones/iems I own in sound signature.


----------



## TYATYA

WesennTony said:


> That's where the name "Momentum" comes from. They're not like any of Senns headphones/iems I own in sound signature.


 yes meaning of "momentum" hahaha.


----------



## nerdydaddyo

WesennTony said:


> That's where the name "Momentum" comes from. They're not like any of Senns headphones/iems I own in sound signature.


So are they worse or better than other Sennheiser you've owned in terms of audio quality? Every time I get a new headset and put it up against my HD1F the new headset goes back.


----------



## TYATYA

nerdydaddyo said:


> So are they worse or better than other Sennheiser you've owned in terms of audio quality? Every time I get a new headset and put it up against my HD1F the new headset goes back.



Sennh product is fine with series 600 and 800. 
Momentum series is not good. Momentum onear wireless is the crap sale man bonus for me when buying Activo CT10, a good that cheaper than bonus item. 
It means a dead stocking item. No one buy it. 
I can deal with it by eq to near the sound of pxc550 but I have to say it is not a hp - it is a ear killer w/o eq


----------



## WesennTony (Jan 2, 2019)

nerdydaddyo said:


> So are they worse or better than other Sennheiser you've owned in terms of audio quality? Every time I get a new headset and put it up against my HD1F the new headset goes back.


I don't have MTW myself, but from what I learned from other posts here, they're not my type. But I don't really have bad feelings either, just different sound.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

TYATYA said:


> P.S I heard someone in local forum said that MTW needs 100hour for correctly responds. Any one can confirm this?
> 
> Sennh momentium wireless is a very bad cans too. My best correction eq for it is below. Acceptable the sound, but most daps wont active eq on blutooth headphone (while all smartphone does)



_No_ headphones need burn-in.

However, I always really enjoyed the Momentum M2/HD1 wireless full-size, so maybe you just don't like the sig. Or you're struggling to get a seal.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

TYATYA said:


> Sennh product is fine with series 600 and 800.
> Momentum series is not good. Momentum onear wireless is the crap sale man bonus for me when buying Activo CT10, a good that cheaper than bonus item.
> It means a dead stocking item. No one buy it.
> I can deal with it by eq to near the sound of pxc550 but I have to say it is not a hp - it is a ear killer w/o eq



Sounds to me like you just like more "neutral" (or "sterile" to my ears) headphones. I would probably listen to the HD1 more than the HD800 if I owned both.


----------



## TYATYA

SomeGuyDude said:


> Sounds to me like you just like more "neutral" (or "sterile" to my ears) headphones. I would probably listen to the HD1 more than the HD800 if I owned both.



I like neutral hp only. Yes.
800 is not my favourite too but I wont say how I hate it. 800 series is not aim to 800 bcs including other cans. 
I wont say 800 is not good (not good for me only, good for other who patiently find a correct amp for it) but I can say mtw is a bad one at its price, can not compare to elite65t which half price


----------



## Spamateur (Jan 2, 2019)

I've been enjoying the Sennheiser MTW the last week but I have to say the battery behavior of the case is irritating. I had the MTW sitting unused for a few days in their case after charging it up to full battery, and the case was nearly dead by the time I picked it up this morning. I don't understand why the case is draining when the MTW are just sitting in the case without being connected to anything. Meanwhile, my Jabra Elite 65t have been off the charger and in their case for a couple _weeks _and it's still at nearly full battery life still. Honestly, I'd be really happy with the MTW if it wasn't for this sort of weirdness with the battery life on the case. I don't want to have to live with the case constantly on the charger considering the battery life on the earpieces themselves is pretty short.

Meanwhile, the ATH-CKR7TW I ordered should be shipping today or tomorrow. I'm interested to try them out, although I hate bright sound signatures so I don't have high hopes since it doesn't look like the Audio Technica app offers an EQ option.


----------



## Chrisdu18e

michaeljefford said:


> Anything's worth a try
> 
> Thanks for the recommendation, I'm assuming the 'Normal Bore' are the ones I am after (3.5mm diameter), as apposed to the Large Bore (4.5mm)?


I've bought these* : *https://www.audiosanctuary.co.uk/mandarines-symbio-eartips-n-normal-bore.html

Option : 1 x Pair Small / 1 x Pair Medium / 1 x Pair Large.
It's mentionned that the Mandarine's (normal) has a 3.8mm bore size.
It's perfect for the Senn'. No pb with the case.


----------



## clerkpalmer

hifi80sman said:


> Interesting review:



This review nails it perfectly.


----------



## Spamateur

TYATYA said:


> I can say mtw is a bad one at its price, can not compare to elite65t which half price



I disagree strongly. I prefer a mostly neutral sound signature as well but the Elite 65t has a lot of issues with audible distortion (particularly in the treble, which is downright terrible). The MTW gets a lot of the technical aspects of sound reproduction right and with EQ the bass can be tamed somewhat to get a more neutral sound signature. The 65t are still my benchmark for ease of use and battery life, but the MTW are much better in sound quality if not frequency response. I agree with you that the price differential of the two is significant enough to turn your average consumer off to the MTW (especially since the battery life isn't up to par) but for people more concerned with sound quality I can see the price point being justified.


----------



## nerdydaddyo

Chrisdu18e said:


> I've bought these* : *https://www.audiosanctuary.co.uk/mandarines-symbio-eartips-n-normal-bore.html
> 
> Option : 1 x Pair Small / 1 x Pair Medium / 1 x Pair Large.
> It's mentionned that the Mandarine's (normal) has a 3.8mm bore size.
> It's perfect for the Senn'. No pb with the case.


NOW you're talking! THOSE, I'm ordering.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

TYATYA said:


> I like neutral hp only. Yes.
> 800 is not my favourite too but I wont say how I hate it. 800 series is not aim to 800 bcs including other cans.
> I wont say 800 is not good (not good for me only, good for other who patiently find a correct amp for it) but I can say mtw is a bad one at its price, can not compare to elite65t which half price



Then you're not the target of some of these products. Calling the Momentum line "crap" puts you wildly at odds with many of us here. I also won't say the 800 is "not good," but I have no interest in owning one. I feel like if you dislike the Momentum line that much, purchasing the MTW was a strange purchase on your part.


----------



## TYATYA

Spamateur said:


> I disagree strongly. I prefer a mostly neutral sound signature as well but the Elite 65t has a lot of issues with audible distortion (particularly in the treble, which is downright terrible). The MTW gets a lot of the technical aspects of sound reproduction right and with EQ the bass can be tamed somewhat to get a more neutral sound signature. The 65t are still my benchmark for ease of use and battery life, but the MTW are much better in sound quality if not frequency response. I agree with you that the price differential of the two is significant enough to turn your average consumer off to the MTW (especially since the battery life isn't up to par) but for people more concerned with sound quality I can see the price point being justified.



65t have sound problem to me is the band noise due to interfere some near band freq in the enviroinment.
It cause badly noise easily heard.
We know it is not always happen.

I remark fr w/o eq (multi purpose of use and not any case eq will work).

The crap in pic is eqing to be ok, I did kill 4k-5k spike and heavily filter the sub... but it can not called ok unit intially (no eq)


----------



## TYATYA

SomeGuyDude said:


> Then you're not the target of some of these products. Calling the Momentum line "crap" puts you wildly at odds with many of us here. I also won't say the 800 is "not good," but I have no interest in owning one. I feel like if you dislike the Momentum line that much, purchasing the MTW was a strange purchase on your part.


If you read slowly you may find what is "crap" I meant (one of momentum).
Agree that sensitive words is shouldnt used bcs some one may like it.
But "not good" is normal. Is it ok if I say that series is not good?


----------



## howdy

TYATYA said:


> If you read slowly you may find what is "crap" I meant (one of momentum).
> Agree that sensitive words is shouldnt used bcs some one may like it.
> But "not good" is normal. Is it ok if I say that series is not good?


I find the MTW to be very good sounding I admit I did lower the bass a touch as it was to much for me. I also have the PXC550 and think they are very good sounding as well. Like others had said maybe this is not the sound Sig you're looking for but to call them crap I don't believe that at all. 
You should bring the MTW back and get the MW07.


----------



## korefuji

Crap is a strong and derogatory term for a earbuds that are really good sounding imo. The Senns although sound good, have other considerable faults I found, and for the price they shouldn't have them. These are first gen twe's from Senn though, but M&D got it mostly right, I just dont' see how the Senns couldnt have improved on what was already out there. I agree though calling them crap is doing them a disservice, everyone has an opnion though, and I guess his opinion is stronger than most against the justification for the senns. I would still not class them as crap though.


----------



## jeffri

Spamateur said:


> I've been enjoying the Sennheiser MTW the last week but I have to say the battery behavior of the case is irritating. I had the MTW sitting unused for a few days in their case after charging it up to full battery, and the case was nearly dead by the time I picked them up this morning. I don't understand why they're draining when the MTW aren't themselves connected to anything. Meanwhile, my Jabra Elite 65t have been off the charger and in their case for a couple _weeks _and it's still at nearly full battery life still. Honestly, I'd be really happy with the MTW if it wasn't for this sort of weirdness with the battery life on the case. I don't want to have to live with these on the charger considering the battery life on the earpieces themselves is pretty short.
> 
> Meanwhile, the ATH-CKR7TW I ordered should be shipping today or tomorrow. I'm interested to try them out, although I hate bright sound signatures so I don't have high hopes since it doesn't look like the Audio Technica app offers an EQ option.



Looking forward for your thoughts on the ATH-CKR7TW against MTW


----------



## Spamateur

jeffri said:


> Looking forward for your thoughts on the ATH-CKR7TW against MTW



Me too! Should be interesting. Btw, did you ever end up using Audio Technica's own app with your CKR7TW? Does it have EQ?


----------



## jeffri

Spamateur said:


> Me too! Should be interesting. Btw, did you ever end up using Audio Technica's own app with your CKR7TW? Does it have EQ?



I did, the app only allow you to choose codec and change button pattern. Other than that, it shows more detailed battery status and also the user guide. No EQ or any sound effect.


----------



## Spamateur

jeffri said:


> I did, the app only allow you to choose codec and change button pattern. Other than that, it shows more detailed battery status and also the user guide. No EQ or any sound effect.



Ah, as I suspected, unfortunately. Seems like an oversight on Audio Technica's part.


----------



## turbobb (Jan 2, 2019)

ocalderon said:


> Where is that review from worshipPastor you're talking about? I'm interested in read it.



Aw man, that totally sucks to hear that your buds got stolen...    (PM sent...)

As for the review, here you go: worshipPastor's review [EDIT: the link is getting truncated but if you search for recent 5 star reviews for MPow T5, it's the one posted on Dec 27 titled: Finally Better Bluetooth Quality]

I should have mine today, will post impressions later but for now, I'm really impressed with the Aermoo B3. The tips it came with aren't very pliable and create discomfort after a while so I swapped them with a set of SpinFit's from my NuForce BeFree8 and now they are super comfy and provide rich sound, good bass, non-sibilant treble and ever so sightly forward mid's. The connectivity has been great (they are supposedly BT5 and I paired it with my LG V30 which is also BT5) and I've only ever experienced intermittent cut out's every once in a long while so not bad at all. The only negative is the buttons are finicky and sometimes don't provide enough tactile feedback so I can't know for sure if I invoked it correctly as they support both single and double-clicks for play/pause and volume control. The waterproof works as advertised which was a must for me.

@kevinscottcaja - somehow missed the RF data testing from your earlier post re: Mavin Air-X and the Mifo O5. Can you provide a little more detail (or a link) on how you did this testing? I do have access to Mac/iPhone. This might be useful for others testing new TWS (especially Chi-Fi units that may have dubious specs).

Thx!,
Tim

EDIT 2: Pasting worshipPastor's review here to make it easier for others (he sounds like one of us... ):

I have bought several of True Wireless earbuds looking for true AAC support for my iPhone X. The first two I bought falsely advertised AAC codec support under AD2P - be careful of what you buy. After testing on my iPhone and Mac I found that they did not support AAC - which validated the lesser quality I was hearing. Since the MPOW T5 had APTX and AAC support in the headline I thought I would take a chance.

I was a bit concerned with some of the mixed reviews I read here on Amazon, but when I got the product it was the real deal. Very good sound quality for a single dynamic driver earbud. And the AAC quality was there - almost as good as a wired earbud. I also verified that the AAC support was there using my Mac just to be sure. I was surprised to find a fairly flat sound signature that has a strong bass that is not overly muddy. The mids are more forward so that vocals are lush and present and not in the background. The highs are solid, not harsh - but probably not as sparkly and clear as more expensive earbuds would provide.

Overall, the detail and sound stage are really excellent for this price range. They are a pleasure to listen to and very comfortable. No pain points even after 3+ hours of listening. They also provide above average sound isolation and block out most of the background noise. I love not having any wires and the convenience of quickly charging them in the case. So far the battery and charge times have been right in line with specifications.

After 20+ hours of listening to these, I am super happy with their performance. They have a better than expected sound quality, especially considering the price. Strong bass, solid mids, and highs that are not sibilant or piercing. The left-right separation is great and they have an expansive sound in the ear that is very enjoyable. I have nearly 20 in ear headphones and am pretty picky with sound quality and comfort. These are not the best in my collection, but they are very good for a truly wireless experience and I don't think you will find a much better product at this price point. I definitely recommend these.


----------



## hifi80sman

turbobb said:


> Aw man, that totally sucks to hear that your buds got stolen...    (PM sent...)
> 
> As for the review, here you go: https://www.amazon.com/gp/customer-...=cm_cr_getr_d_rvw_ttl?ie=UTF8&ASIN=B07KT2SYPY
> 
> ...


How's the connection between buds with the Aermoo B3?  I purchased LATOW branded earbuds that look similar (where do they come up with these "company" names?  LOL!) and there were connection drop outs between the buds.


----------



## turbobb

hifi80sman said:


> How's the connection between buds with the Aermoo B3?  I purchased LATOW branded earbuds that look similar (where do they come up with these "company" names?  LOL!) and there were connection drop outs between the buds.


They've been perfect, always sync with each other each and every single time since purchased (can't say the same for the Chi-Fi unit's I ordered last year). Wondering if the BT5 in them helps since I also had my V30 last year but those units only supported BT 4.2 at most. Re; the names, seriously IKR? I recall looking for some cheap beater quartz watch for my son last year and just searched by latest releases and I kid you not, some company names were like they just let their pet step over the keyboard (as in: Zxxsytur) and decided "Hey, that's a great name!".   In all seriousness, I get that English isn't their first language but still, those names just weren't even pronounceable.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

TYATYA said:


> If you read slowly you may find what is "crap" I meant (one of momentum).
> Agree that sensitive words is shouldnt used bcs some one may like it.
> But "not good" is normal. Is it ok if I say that series is not good?



And I think it is good. So okay.


----------



## turbobb

Just got the MPow T5's and wow, these are really good! Confirmed it has aptX (by flipping from AAC to aptX under Dev Options). Haven't burned them in but initial impressions are that they are generally neutral-ish but with elevated powerful bass that is just slightly flabby (not tight). Going to need a bit more time with them before providing any other feedback. Initial pairing was a little tricky but going through the instructions cleared it up (just wish the pairing info was all on the first page, would've saved me a few minutes). Thx to @hifi80sman for mentioning these. I know there's been heavy focus on the top-tier brands but nice to discuss (cheaper) alternatives as well.

Happy New Year all!


----------



## SomeGuyDude (Jan 2, 2019)

MW07 update:

Battery life is about 2.5 hours or a touch above, but in fairness I listen at 75% volume and sometimes a bit over, so that's honestly all I need since these aren't a gym set. Sound-wise, I'd so forgotten how much I loved the thickness and power that a 10mm beryllium driver gives. Up to this point, my favorite in-ears _of all_ were the Periodic Be's and I still think those are the best I've ever heard at any price point, but the MW07 brings me right back into that same happy headspace that they did. I have no doubts the bass will be too much for some, but it's right where I like it to be. Meaty, dynamic, but not overpowering.

The battery does bum me out still, but not because I'm in any situations where I can't charge them or it interrupts my day, but because I wish the battery life was 30 hours so I could just leave them in my ears from sunrise to sunset. I'm not gonna try and break down all the minutiae of it because I'd rather appreciate the forest than examine the trees, and boy am I appreciating this forest.

In fact, these things are making me so damn pleased that part of me is considering looking into buying the MW60, despite loving my precious Crossfade 2's. I'm so happy that Bluetooth has finally gotten to a point where it's no longer "sacrificing sound for convenience," but rather "sound perfectly in line with how much these would cost if you subtracted the wireless tech."


----------



## WesennTony (Jan 2, 2019)

turbobb said:


> Just got the MPow T5's and wow, these are really good! Confirmed it has aptX (by flipping from AAC to aptX under Dev Options). Haven't burned them in but initial impressions are that they are generally neutral-ish but with elevated powerful bass that is just slightly flabby (not tight). Going to need a bit more time with them before providing any other feedback. Initial pairing was a little tricky but going through the instructions cleared it up (just wish the pairing info was all on the first page, would've saved me a few minutes). Thx to @hifi80sman for mentioning these. I know there's been heavy focus on the top-tier brands but nice to discuss (cheaper) alternatives as well.
> 
> Happy New Year all!


Nice! I'm looking for a pair for gym use, and these may be a good option. These or Mifo O5.


----------



## webvan

WesennTony said:


> Last couple of days I tried the Sabbat x12 pro for gym use. They sound surprisingly good, neutral and balanced, not harsh at all. But the complete lack of sound isolation annoys me in a noisy gym. So my mw07 still needs to take the job


Yeah they will not work for a noisy environments where you want to be isolated. Like I wrote the other day they're ideal for running though. The fact that they're not very comfortable (hard edges with the lack of silicone tips) hasn't been a problem so far for that usage. A bit more so for long listening sessions while working though.


----------



## WesennTony

webvan said:


> Yeah they will not work for a noisy environments where you want to be isolated. Like I wrote the other day they're ideal for running though. The fact that they're not very comfortable (hard edges with the lack of silicone tips) hasn't been a problem so far for that usage. A bit more so for long listening sessions while working though.


I found it also very suitable for me listening to podcast during lunch and taking a nap in the office. The semi-open design does not put pressure on my ear canal, which is good. And it's small and light enough not to bother me to sleep. I heard that someone use earbud sponge or silicone eartips for Airpods to make a better fit and more comfortable. I've ordered some to see if they work.


----------



## ocalderon

turbobb said:


> Aw man, that totally sucks to hear that your buds got stolen...    (PM sent...)
> 
> As for the review, here you go: worshipPastor's review [EDIT: the link is getting truncated but if you search for recent 5 star reviews for MPow T5, it's the one posted on Dec 27 titled: Finally Better Bluetooth Quality]
> 
> I should have mine today, will post impressions later but for now, I'm really impressed with the Aermoo B3. The tips it came with aren't very pliable and create discomfort after a while so I swapped them with a set of SpinFit's from my NuForce BeFree8 and now they are super comfy and provide rich sound, good bass, non-sibilant treble and ever so sightly forward mid's. The connectivity has been great (they are supposedly BT5 and I paired it with my LG V30 which is also BT5) and I've only ever experienced intermittent cut out's every once in a long while so not bad at all. The only negative is the buttons are finicky and sometimes don't provide enough tactile feedback so I can't know for sure if I invoked it correctly as they support both single and double-clicks for play/pause and volume control. The waterproof works as advertised which was a must for me.



Thank you for the reference  i just read and it seems they are good (T5). I was asking in Aliexpress and in MPOW Facebook page, and regarding the other models (T6 and T7) they don't support Apt-X and CvC, while T5 does.


----------



## webvan

WesennTony said:


> I found it also very suitable for me listening to podcast during lunch and taking a nap in the office. The semi-open design does not put pressure on my ear canal, which is good. And it's small and light enough not to bother me to sleep. I heard that someone use earbud sponge or silicone eartips for Airpods to make a better fit and more comfortable. I've ordered some to see if they work.


Interesting, the standard round ones for earbuds or some specific Airpods ones ? Do you have a link handy for the ones your ordered ? Thanks !


----------



## hifi80sman

SomeGuyDude said:


> The battery does bum me out still, but not because I'm in any situations where I can't charge them or it interrupts my day, but because I wish the battery life was 30 hours so I could just leave them in my ears from sunrise to sunset.


Man, the choir, the choir.

Would you say you're getting better battery life with the Tortoiseshell vs. Black color?


----------



## hifi80sman

turbobb said:


> Just got the MPow T5's and wow, these are really good! Confirmed it has aptX (by flipping from AAC to aptX under Dev Options). Haven't burned them in but initial impressions are that they are generally neutral-ish but with elevated powerful bass that is just slightly flabby (not tight). Going to need a bit more time with them before providing any other feedback. Initial pairing was a little tricky but going through the instructions cleared it up (just wish the pairing info was all on the first page, would've saved me a few minutes). Thx to @hifi80sman for mentioning these. I know there's been heavy focus on the top-tier brands but nice to discuss (cheaper) alternatives as well.
> 
> Happy New Year all!


Nice!  You're like the try before *I buy* guy.  Initial impressions are what I was hoping for.  I'm looking for an inexpensive, yet good quality pair I can use more casually (at the pool, etc.), since I baby my MW07 and don't want to scuff them up.  They are basically sitting under a constant light in the center of my bedroom and emit an angelic sound as the light shimmers off the case.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

hifi80sman said:


> Man, the choir, the choir.
> 
> Would you say you're getting better battery life with the Tortoiseshell vs. Black color?



It feels like I am, but I'm not sure I'd credit that to the color just yet since I don't have any real reason to believe the actual units differ between finishes. For all I know I just had an early model or one of the rough batteries. I will say the Tortoiseshell is swank as hell, though.


----------



## firewatersun

SomeGuyDude said:


> It feels like I am, but I'm not sure I'd credit that to the color just yet since I don't have any real reason to believe the actual units differ between finishes. For all I know I just had an early model or one of the rough batteries. I will say the Tortoiseshell is swank as hell, though.



Yeah, I got Grey Terazzo as it was on sale for almost $100 less, but now I'm looking wistfully at Tortoiseshell...No chance anyone wants to trade, do they ?


----------



## hifi80sman

SomeGuyDude said:


> It feels like I am, but I'm not sure I'd credit that to the color just yet since I don't have any real reason to believe the actual units differ between finishes. For all I know I just had an early model or one of the rough batteries. I will say the Tortoiseshell is swank as hell, though.


What's funny, is when I went in to BB and asked for the MW07, they were like "How do you know about those?  Most people come in here and ask for the Beats."

Just don't wear them to the gym, otherwise people want to talk to you and ask you what those are.  Like, dude, I have them on specifically because I don't want to talk.  And no, I don't know what supplements you should use.  Join Head-Fi, we'll talk there.  LOL!


----------



## SomeGuyDude

firewatersun said:


> Yeah, I got Grey Terazzo as it was on sale for almost $100 less, but now I'm looking wistfully at Tortoiseshell...No chance anyone wants to trade, do they ?



Weirdly enough, I would have gotten the Terazzo if they had them...



hifi80sman said:


> What's funny, is when I went in to BB and asked for the MW07, they were like "How do you know about those?  Most people come in here and ask for the Beats."
> 
> Just don't wear them to the gym, otherwise people want to talk to you and ask you what those are.  Like, dude, I have them on specifically because I don't want to talk.  And no, I don't know what supplements you should use.  Join Head-Fi, we'll talk there.  LOL!



LMAO I've definitely had people ask me about the MW07, only set anyone's ever done that on. Not the e8, not the Bose, not the Sony. Something about the MW07 seems to catch attention.

As another note, my god these are good on rock/metal. Been blasting more avant-garde stuff like Corpo Mente and Igorrr and just... wow.


----------



## firewatersun

SomeGuyDude said:


> Weirdly enough, I would have gotten the Terazzo if they had them...
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Maybe we could do a straight trade if I don't fall too much in love with them  Mine arrive tomorrow hopefully.

They definitely do look the best out of all the TWS I've seen, and a really good style too, not too traditionally masculine or feminine - the acrylic really catches the light so nicely.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

firewatersun said:


> Maybe we could do a straight trade if I don't fall too much in love with them  Mine arrive tomorrow hopefully.
> 
> They definitely do look the best out of all the TWS I've seen, and a really good style too, not too traditionally masculine or feminine - the acrylic really catches the light so nicely.



I'm 100% down for that. Just keep me posted. I'm the kinda guy that tends to wear a lot of black band shirts and jeans so the grey motif works better for me, but I'm not too worried either way. 

Checking out the MW50+ as well. They seem pretty effing good and are updated. Starting to fall in love with the M&D house sound and I'm a huge fan of beryllium drivers...


----------



## albau (Jan 2, 2019)

Guys, sorry to hijack thread a little, but I need your advise on full-size BT cans (asked on respective forum but no one seemed to care). I love my AKG-K701 to pieces but I've got so spoiled by my MW07 and 65t that don't want to be tethered to a headamp even at home. I'm ready  to take inevitable hit on SQ.

My budget is around $300, preferably less. The sound signature I prefer is kinda a mix between typical Senn warm, engaging and 3D (HD580) and AKG clarity and reserved elegance. I really like wide enveloping soundstage and superb imaging. Funny enough MW07 fits the bill considering it's a damn IEM. Not a fan of overly bright signatures (like AT), but would love high end detail if it's not fatiguing. Since I'll be using those mostly at home or in the office ANC is not a priority. Being able to remember at least 2 connections is a must. As long as sound and comfort are there don't care much about on- or over- ear, or closed or open back provided there're no copious amounts of sound leakage. Option for a wired cable is nice to have. When wireless I will be driving them mostly out of my Android phone and an iPad. 

I had a listen to GW100 and liked a lot about them, especially that they didn't have typical overly bright Grado sound and had a rather strong bass. But they connect only to one source which makes them a no-go for me. I'm really confused about Senn HD1/Momentum/PXC line, and all seem like old designs, no? Beyerdynamic Aventho seem like a really good choice but are too expensive. Same with M&D, and reviews aren't that inspiring. AKG BT cans seem to be a mixed bag. I know it's irrational but I'm wary about Bose and Sony .

Will appreciate advise. Thanks guys!


----------



## SomeGuyDude

If you like the MW07 I 100% suggest looking at the VModa Crossfade 2 Wireless (codex only if you care about AAC and want something other than Rose Gold). They also sound fantastic in wired mode. It's what I use.


----------



## clerkpalmer

Not sure you are going to improve upon the MW07 given those parameters.  GW100 is indeed awesome sounding - possibly the best sounding BT cans I've ever heard but they definitely have their limitations/drawbacks.  Audeze Mobius can be purchased used on ebay and headfi for sub 300 and probably offers the best SQ over BT you can get.  I grabbed a pair for $240 a while back.  They are a steal.  Biggest issue for me is they look ridiculous and are therefore limited to home use.


----------



## kiwikozo (Jan 2, 2019)

My black Earin M-2 arrived today.

Initial impressions - 4.5/5


Packaging is lovely (magnetic cork cradle).
Build quality is fantastic, far better than the MTW. They have a real premium feel, especially the magnetic metal tube case with an extremely satisfying click.
They're tiny - almost too tiny. Imagine two earbud tips glued together, that's the length! The case easily fits in a pocket.

Right out of the box they sounded horrible, but after the tedious 30-minute firmware update through the android app which updated one earbud at a time, there was a sudden change in clarity. Now they sound very good. All of the bad reviews were before the December firmware update.
Slight emphasis on bass, but very clean. Mids are crisp and clear. Surprisingly a lot of detail in the highs even though they're not that bright. I have played around with the EQ in poweramp to get them just to my liking.

Sound quality from best to worst = MTW (Slightly larger soundstage / slightly better clarity) > Earin M2 > RHA > Jabra 65t

Strange but on the Earin website it says they last up to 4h depending on the codec. I had them paired with aptX / Samsung S8+, a couple of hours (40% battery remaining) in I changed the output to AAC and it seemed to drastically improve battery life as stated on the Earin website.
I think they will last around 4h mark even at a high volume. These get loud! There is a gain option in the app.
Charge time is good - 0-70% in 30 minutes.
I don't think there are more comfortable / better looking TW earphones out there. These are literally just the earbud, they come with comply foam tips, and they're compatible with standard earphone tips (I tried the silicon ones with my MDR EX650). Comply tips in the box fit well (4 pairs provided), and really make the M2 stay put when running.

The connection is strong, haven't had any issues so far. Initially you connect them one by one as they can act as two individual headsets. Automatically detect left/right and connect instantly. No issues with them being recognised on the app either unlike the issues I had with the MTW. You can also turn the M2 off in the app without the case.
I think they're perfect for the gym, so tiny and they don't make you look like an alien.
Something special about having buds this small, you can even lie down against them in bed as they don't protrude.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

The Mobius are also primarily intended for gaming, aren't they? Like, they were designed with the 3D imaging deal in mind (which is why I'm looking at getting a pair).


----------



## howdy

albau said:


> Guys, sorry to hijack thread a little, but I need your advise on full-size BT cans (asked on respective forum but no one seemed to care). I love my AKG-K701 to pieces but I've got so spoiled by my MW07 and 65t that don't want to be tethered to a headamp even at home. I'm ready  to take inevitable hit on SQ.
> 
> My budget is around $300, preferably less. The sound signature I prefer is kinda a mix between typical Senn warm, engaging and 3D (HD580) and AKG clarity and reserved elegance. I really like wide enveloping soundstage and superb imaging. Funny enough MW07 fits the bill considering it's a damn IEM. Not a fan of overly bright signatures (like AT), but would love high end detail if it's not fatiguing. Since I'll be using those mostly at home or in the office ANC is not a priority. Being able to remember at least 2 connections is a must. As long as sound and comfort are there don't care much about on- or over- ear, or closed or open back provided there're no copious amounts of sound leakage. Option for a wired cable is nice to have. When wireless I will be driving them mostly out of my Android phone and an iPad.
> 
> ...


I have the Sony WH1000XM2 and Sennheiser PXC550 and from my perspective you could not go wrong with either one of them. The Sony have better SQ but the PXC550 are a lot more comfortable.


----------



## albau (Jan 2, 2019)

SomeGuyDude said:


> If you like the MW07 I 100% suggest looking at the VModa Crossfade 2 Wireless (codex only if you care about AAC and want something other than Rose Gold). They also sound fantastic in wired mode. It's what I use.


Vmoda never crossed my mind, I thought it's what you get as a result of one night stand between Skullcandy and Beats . But now will definitely check them out. Thanks!


----------



## firewatersun

SomeGuyDude said:


> I'm 100% down for that. Just keep me posted. I'm the kinda guy that tends to wear a lot of black band shirts and jeans so the grey motif works better for me, but I'm not too worried either way.
> 
> Checking out the MW50+ as well. They seem pretty effing good and are updated. Starting to fall in love with the M&D house sound and I'm a huge fan of beryllium drivers...



Nice, will do! I am looking at the larger M&D stuff too, they just look beautiful, and if they sound anywhere near as good....


----------



## albau (Jan 2, 2019)

howdy said:


> I have the Sony WH1000XM2 and Sennheiser PXC550 and from my perspective you could not go wrong with either one of them. The Sony have better SQ but the PXC550 are a lot more comfortable.


Thanks. Can you switch off ANC on either of them? My limited experience with old wired Bose was that in quiet environments it only degrades the sound and adds hiss.


----------



## howdy

albau said:


> Thanks. Can you switch off ANC on either of them? My limited experience with old wired Bose is that in quiet environments it degrades the sound and adds hiss.


Absolutely. There is a switch one the PXC550 and a button on the Sony. The Sony have the best noise cancelling on the market as of now.


----------



## albau

SomeGuyDude said:


> The Mobius are also primarily intended for gaming, aren't they? Like, they were designed with the 3D imaging deal in mind (which is why I'm looking at getting a pair).


Yeah, I didn't look at them because of that.


----------



## Luchyres

SomeGuyDude said:


> If you like the MW07 I 100% suggest looking at the VModa Crossfade 2 Wireless (codex only if you care about AAC and want something other than Rose Gold). They also sound fantastic in wired mode. It's what I use.



I had the Crossfade 2 Codex and love them - very comfortable, foldable, durable, great bass - I just never wore them as I habitually go for IEMs for almost everything (and I get a terrible ridge in my hair with every over-head band ever lol)


----------



## howdy

Luchyres said:


> I had the Crossfade 2 Codex and love them - very comfortable, foldable, durable, great bass - I just never wore them as I habitually go for IEMs for almost everything (and I get a terrible ridge in my hair with every over-head band ever lol)


V-Moda has some Bass fit wireless earbuds now.


----------



## clerkpalmer

SomeGuyDude said:


> The Mobius are also primarily intended for gaming, aren't they? Like, they were designed with the 3D imaging deal in mind (which is why I'm looking at getting a pair).



Mobius is certainly marketed toward gaming but they excel as a 2 channel music headphone as well.  If you stripped out all the 3D, 7.1 stuff, Mobius is still an amazing sounding full Planar BT headset with a built in DAC and AMP.


----------



## albau

What about B&O H8i?


----------



## raheelc

albau said:


> Vmoda never crossed my mind, I thought it's what you get as a result of one night stand between Skullcandy and Beats . But now will definitely check them out. Thanks!



I can second the V-moda Crossfade 2 Wireless. I have the Rose Gold version that came out in 2017 (the one with the aptx codec support). They sound great. I'm on a similar set up as you as well. I have the 65t active, the Crossfade 2 wireless, and I'm going to pick up the MW07 as soon as my ebay bucks kick in this month (should be able to pick them up for around 150 once I use my ebay bucks).


----------



## SomeGuyDude

I owned the H9i (never tried the H8i), but I'll say this about them: They sounded amazingly clean and punchy, but lacked "weight" if that makes sense. The frequency curve was great for me, the ANC didn't affect it too much like the PX did, but in the end they just didn't quite have the sense of "oomph" I like from my headphones. 

The H9i also had the only example of touch controls that were beneficial, IMO. I loved everything about their design. If the H8i is similar, I feel like they'd be perfect for a ton of people.


----------



## jeffri

I'm getting myself a Microsoft Surface headphone from the holiday sale. Seems like something no one from Head-fi will bat an eye of though... lol


----------



## SomeGuyDude

raheelc said:


> I can second the V-moda Crossfade 2 Wireless. I have the Rose Gold version that came out in 2017 (the one with the aptx codec support). They sound great. I'm on a similar set up as you as well. I have the 65t active, the Crossfade 2 wireless, and I'm going to pick up the MW07 as soon as my ebay bucks kick in this month (should be able to pick them up for around 150 once I use my ebay bucks).



MW07/Vmoda is my current combo, I actually just popped the MW07 back in the case to charge and tossed on the VModa. Perfectly seamless transition to my ears, not like a "oh hell I gotta adjust to this now" situation.


----------



## chinmie

after i sold my Pamu Scroll, i purchased these two : Mifo o5 standard version (dynamic driver) and the newest batch of Sabbat X12 pro, now with battery indicator and usb C. 

compared to my old sabbat, this one is slightly bigger case (by a millimeter) and changed LED position. sound prompt still in Chinese  and SQ is about the same as the older one. 

the Mifo is a nice surprise. really solid and well made. the case is the best i have ever tried. waterproofing is real deal too, as i dunk it on water for a good few minutes, and it works fine immediately  usually with waterproofed phones, the speaker would crapped out for a while because of the water until it is dried, this one is not a problem. 
sound prompt is in English,and the SQ is good, warm bass and good clarity on mids and treble.
much more mature sound than the Pamu Scroll 
i went with the standard version because i had a great deal of price compared to the pro version, about half the price. 
now I'm curious about the pro version (or the TFZ X1 which is a rebrand of mifo o5 pro).


----------



## SomeGuyDude

jeffri said:


> I'm getting myself a Microsoft Surface headphone from the holiday sale. Seems like something no one from Head-fi will bat an eye of though... lol



TBH as a Surface owner I was really intrigued by those, but every review I saw seemed to suggest they're more about the tech than the sound so while they're gonna do great for lots of users I think the majority on here will be left a little cold by them. Again, that's without having heard a pair, just going off what reviews seemed to point out.


----------



## clerkpalmer

raheelc said:


> I can second the V-moda Crossfade 2 Wireless. I have the Rose Gold version that came out in 2017 (the one with the aptx codec support). They sound great. I'm on a similar set up as you as well. I have the 65t active, the Crossfade 2 wireless, and I'm going to pick up the MW07 as soon as my ebay bucks kick in this month (should be able to pick them up for around 150 once I use my ebay bucks).



Just a heads up that m&d does not warranty ebay items. For 150 it may be worth the risk but they denied my warranty claim after eBay purchase.


----------



## raheelc

SomeGuyDude said:


> MW07/Vmoda is my current combo, I actually just popped the MW07 back in the case to charge and tossed on the VModa. Perfectly seamless transition to my ears, not like a "oh hell I gotta adjust to this now" situation.



Awesome, good to know. What color MW07 do you have? I just checked by ebay bucks and they've been activated, so should be able to pick up a pair of the MW07 for a little over $100 once I use the code. Now to decide on what color!


----------



## raheelc

clerkpalmer said:


> Just a heads up that m&d does not warranty ebay items. For 150 it may be worth the risk but they denied my warranty claim after eBay purchase.



good to know, thanks! I'll be sure to buy a pair that has 30 day returns, so I can thoroughly test them out.


----------



## raheelc

For those of you who have the MW07, any chance anyone of you could post up a few pics if you have the tortoise shell color? I'm considering either that, or matte black, since those are the two more commonly available versions on ebay.


----------



## clerkpalmer

chinmie said:


> after i sold my Pamu Scroll, i purchased these two : Mifo o5 standard version (dynamic driver) and the newest batch of Sabbat X12 pro, now with battery indicator and usb C.
> 
> compared to my old sabbat, this one is slightly bigger case (by a millimeter) and changed LED position. sound prompt still in Chinese  and SQ is about the same as the older one.
> 
> ...


Any reviews on the tfz x1?


----------



## turbobb

albau said:


> Guys, sorry to hijack thread a little....


Absolutely not trying to be a party-pooper but this thread gets enough traffic as is and it would be good to keep it on track so your question might be better served on this long-running thread:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/hug...ost-your-own-comparisons-here.746519/page-228

Though last post was in November, they've covered pretty much all the latest full-sized BT cans in-depth so there is already a wealth of info that would hopefully help you in your hunt. Also, if you're not adverse to using a BT adapter/amp with existing non-BT cans, there are relevant threads I can point you to as well. Best of luck with the search!


----------



## jeffri

SomeGuyDude said:


> TBH as a Surface owner I was really intrigued by those, but every review I saw seemed to suggest they're more about the tech than the sound so while they're gonna do great for lots of users I think the majority on here will be left a little cold by them. Again, that's without having heard a pair, just going off what reviews seemed to point out.



That's the main reason I get it too. The color just match the Surface.  Also the reason I choose the gray on CKR7TW, I'm a sucker for those color. 

The review seems to be okay, though most seem to rate it lower than the Sony. I'm not really a fan of Sony sound (tried the mk2), so I hope this is more to my liking. That said, I'm really just after the ANC and many seems to agree that it is better than Bose. I tried Bose and I like them... so that's where I came from.


----------



## WesennTony

kiwikozo said:


> My black Earin M-2 arrived today.
> 
> Initial impressions - 4.5/5
> 
> ...


Great review! Your conclusion about the gym use and lying on bed makes me think this maybe the perfect companion with mw07 that I'm looking for.


----------



## WesennTony

webvan said:


> Interesting, the standard round ones for earbuds or some specific Airpods ones ? Do you have a link handy for the ones your ordered ? Thanks !


I ordered earbud sponge from Amazon https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B072FJR5Y5/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1  I may be able to test them tomorrow. Earbtips for Airpods I'm waiting patiently from Aliexpress, https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4-P...439.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.28e44c4dfrQkJ7 .


----------



## SomeGuyDude

raheelc said:


> For those of you who have the MW07, any chance anyone of you could post up a few pics if you have the tortoise shell color? I'm considering either that, or matte black, since those are the two more commonly available versions on ebay.


----------



## kevinscottcaja

WesennTony said:


> I'm interested in Mifo O5 now. Great comparison! Could you tell me which version (standard or pro ) is using dynamic driver? I googled it and found different answers. Some also refer to a Sports edition, which I assume is the standard one? And how can I tell which version I have without opening the box?


The standard version is the one using the dynamic driver. The pro version is the one using the balanced armature. The standard version too is cheaper than the pro version. If you like a bassy and V-shaped sound signature go with the standard version. If you like a neutral sound signature, go with the pro version.


----------



## WesennTony

kevinscottcaja said:


> The standard version is the one using the dynamic driver. The pro version is the one using the balanced armature. The standard version too is cheaper than the pro version. If you like a bassy and V-shaped sound signature go with the standard version. If you like a neutral sound signature, go with the pro version.


Thanks a lot!


----------



## chinmie

clerkpalmer said:


> Any reviews on the tfz x1?



not the TFZ in particular, but someone did a review of the pro version of the mifo here, you might want to search for it. 



kevinscottcaja said:


> The standard version is the one using the dynamic driver. The pro version is the one using the balanced armature. The standard version too is cheaper than the pro version. If you like a bassy and V-shaped sound signature go with the standard version. If you like a neutral sound signature, go with the pro version.



have you tried and compared them both personally?


----------



## clerkpalmer

chinmie said:


> not the TFZ in particular, but someone did a review of the pro version of the mifo here, you might want to search for it.
> 
> 
> 
> have you tried and compared them both personally?


I’m kind of intrigued by the pro version.


----------



## albau

turbobb said:


> Absolutely not trying to be a party-pooper but this thread gets enough traffic as is and it would be good to keep it on track so your question might be better served on this long-running thread:
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/hug...ost-your-own-comparisons-here.746519/page-228
> 
> Though last post was in November, they've covered pretty much all the latest full-sized BT cans in-depth so there is already a wealth of info that would hopefully help you in your hunt. Also, if you're not adverse to using a BT adapter/amp with existing non-BT cans, there are relevant threads I can point you to as well. Best of luck with the search!


Your point is well taken and thanks for the link.


----------



## kevinscottcaja

chinmie said:


> not the TFZ in particular, but someone did a review of the pro version of the mifo here, you might want to search for it.
> have you tried and compared them both personally?


I do not have the standard version of the Mifo O5, but I did have a very long listening on a shop here in HK. It has V-shaped sound signature. Treble is much more pronounced and much deeper subbass, although my ears are very sensitive to treble so take my opinion with a grain of salt, our ears are all different anyway.


----------



## Closingracer

raheelc said:


> For those of you who have the MW07, any chance anyone of you could post up a few pics if you have the tortoise shell color? I'm considering either that, or matte black, since those are the two more commonly available versions on ebay.





There is a few reviews with that color on youtube already. They look nice and wanted it but the BestBuy near me and every other one only had the Black one. Would of liked the blue one but didn't want to wait like 2 weeks just for the color. The black ones do get a little "Greasy" fingerprint smudges on it but a simple wipe cleans it off.


----------



## alchemical

Any MTW owners having issues with the left bud not charging to 100%, and the battery case running low on charge long before it should, as if the buds are constantly draining charge? Seems like a lot of people on this thread are experiencing similar issues to me: https://www.reddit.com/r/sennheiser/comments/a51veu/momentum_true_wireless_not_turning_off/


----------



## Closingracer

howdy said:


> V-Moda has some Bass fit wireless earbuds now.




Eh they are good but the Bluetooth connection is spotty at times. They cut out sometimes.


----------



## nc8000

Earin are having a 30% of after Christmas sale so I’ve ordered the M2. I really like the size of it so hope it will work out. If not they have 2 weeks money back.


----------



## chinmie

kevinscottcaja said:


> I do not have the standard version of the Mifo O5, but I did have a very long listening on a shop here in HK. It has V-shaped sound signature. Treble is much more pronounced and much deeper subbass, although my ears are very sensitive to treble so take my opinion with a grain of salt, our ears are all different anyway.



to me the treble on the standard is subdued so it's more of an L shaped sound with big warm bass. I'm curious about the pro version because i like more treble clarity, and based on aliexpress reviews, but your feedback that the standard version has a more pronounced treble makes me wonder whether i should try the pro version or not


----------



## hifi80sman

albau said:


> Guys, sorry to hijack thread a little, but I need your advise on full-size BT cans (asked on respective forum but no one seemed to care). I love my AKG-K701 to pieces but I've got so spoiled by my MW07 and 65t that don't want to be tethered to a headamp even at home. I'm ready  to take inevitable hit on SQ.
> 
> My budget is around $300, preferably less. The sound signature I prefer is kinda a mix between typical Senn warm, engaging and 3D (HD580) and AKG clarity and reserved elegance. I really like wide enveloping soundstage and superb imaging. Funny enough MW07 fits the bill considering it's a damn IEM. Not a fan of overly bright signatures (like AT), but would love high end detail if it's not fatiguing. Since I'll be using those mostly at home or in the office ANC is not a priority. Being able to remember at least 2 connections is a must. As long as sound and comfort are there don't care much about on- or over- ear, or closed or open back provided there're no copious amounts of sound leakage. Option for a wired cable is nice to have. When wireless I will be driving them mostly out of my Android phone and an iPad.
> 
> ...


Give the AT M50xBT a shot.  A bit less metallic than the M50x and a tad smoother/warmer.  Available at Best Buy, so you can always return if you don’t like them.


----------



## hifi80sman (Jan 3, 2019)

SomeGuyDude said:


> TBH as a Surface owner I was really intrigued by those, but every review I saw seemed to suggest they're more about the tech than the sound so while they're gonna do great for lots of users I think the majority on here will be left a little cold by them. Again, that's without having heard a pair, just going off what reviews seemed to point out.


If I ever see anyone wearing them, I’m just going to scream “Hey Cortana!  Play Barry Manilow.”

Always on Cortana a definite no-go for me.  Knowing the “mature” friends I surround myself with, it’ll just be a complete cluster.


----------



## hifi80sman

howdy said:


> V-Moda has some Bass fit wireless earbuds now.


Come on V-Moda, where are the TWEs?  I love my CFW1 with XL ear pads and hope they can get something like that in an industrial TWE form. The BassFit are similar in appearance to the Beats and a bit late to the party.


----------



## kevinscottcaja

chinmie said:


> to me the treble on the standard is subdued so it's more of an L shaped sound with big warm bass. I'm curious about the pro version because i like more treble clarity, and based on aliexpress reviews, but your feedback that the standard version has a more pronounced treble makes me wonder whether i should try the pro version or not


Huh, makes me wonder if you actually got the pro version instead, it has a warm bass (but with balanced subbass that is not overpowering) which reminds me of IEMs that uses the Knowles RAB series (similar to Earin-M2), The standard version of the Mifo O5 actually reminded me slightly of the Jabra 65T although not exactly sounding similar, however they sounded closer to each other, with treble presence toward 6khz to 7khz (which I'm very sensitive).

Additionally, I bought a few QCY T1 too since its very cheap and uses the same bluetooth chipset as the Mifo O5 (Realtek RTL8763BFR). Amazingly, the treble is actually nicer and has more sparkle with mild and smooth treble presence toward 8khz to 10kz which is my sensitivity to sparkle and clarity. The only letdown of the QCY T1 is the battery life which only lasts me 4.5 to 5 hours. (But with charging case it can go up to 20 hours, and it charges fast too). And the plastic build of the charging case.

Maybe you wanna try the T1, it actually sounds good for the price. Single BA IEMs, depending on their design, often suffer from early treble roll off anyway. (Although the CA Comet is an exemption).


----------



## chinmie

kevinscottcaja said:


> Huh, makes me wonder if you actually got the pro version instead, it has a warm bass (but with balanced subbass that is not overpowering) which reminds me of IEMs that uses the Knowles RAB series (similar to Earin-M2), The standard version of the Mifo O5 actually reminded me slightly of the Jabra 65T although not exactly sounding similar, however they sounded closer to each other, with treble presence toward 6khz to 7khz (which I'm very sensitive).
> 
> Additionally, I bought a few QCY T1 too since its very cheap and uses the same bluetooth chipset as the Mifo O5 (Realtek RTL8763BFR). Amazingly, the treble is actually nicer and has more sparkle with mild and smooth treble presence toward 8khz to 10kz which is my sensitivity to sparkle and clarity. The only letdown of the QCY T1 is the battery life which only lasts me 4.5 to 5 hours. (But with charging case it can go up to 20 hours, and it charges fast too). And the plastic build of the charging case.
> 
> Maybe you wanna try the T1, it actually sounds good for the price. Single BA IEMs, depending on their design, often suffer from early treble roll off anyway. (Although the CA Comet is an exemption).



wishful thinking, i hope so, even though the sticker did say "standard" on the box 

i haven't tested the mifo too much because i got it (and the new Sabba)  on the 31st December and immediately took them on holiday with me. but i did briefly tested it with my 65t, and the mifo have a warmer bass and also a warmer-smoothly rolled off treble than the 65t.

by the way, did you mean the QCY T1C or the T1 Pro? the T1 pro only has bt 4.2, does it have stable connection? the T1C seems to have a good overall reviews especially for the really low price of 20 something dollars.


----------



## webvan

WesennTony said:


> I ordered earbud sponge from Amazon https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B072FJR5Y5/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1  I may be able to test them tomorrow. Earbtips for Airpods I'm waiting patiently from Aliexpress, https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4-P...439.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.28e44c4dfrQkJ7 .



Thanks, these specific AirPod sleeves look they could help, although the fit is a bit different on the Sabbat since they don't sit on the outside of the canal like the EarPods.



nc8000 said:


> Earin are having a 30% of after Christmas sale so I’ve ordered the M2. I really like the size of it so hope it will work out. If not they have 2 weeks money back.



Thanks for the tip, not available in black anymore though and I couldn't find details on the return policy they mention in terms in conditions.

More generally, while it's always hard to resist trying out new gadgets, I think that with the 65t, WF1000x, Havit G1 and Sabbat X12, I have most bases covered


----------



## nc8000

webvan said:


> Thanks, these specific AirPod sleeves look they could help, although the fit is a bit different on the Sabbat since they don't sit on the outside of the canal like the EarPods.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Probably yes, in reallity I’m covered with E8 and G1. What appeals to me with the E2 is that it should be small enough to actually use laying down on my side with the head on a pillow. Will have to see how it works out. I did get a black one


----------



## webvan (Jan 3, 2019)

I suspect it would still put pressure on your ear due to the volume of the device, maybe an EarPod or Qyan 39 type of design would work better ?


----------



## turbobb (Jan 3, 2019)

Just got news about the Klipsch T5 (BT5 and aptX HD):
https://www.klipsch.com/ces-2019
That Zippo like case is interesting!

Should be a few new TWEs being announced at CES.


----------



## kiwikozo (Jan 3, 2019)

nc8000 said:


> Earin are having a 30% of after Christmas sale so I’ve ordered the M2. I really like the size of it so hope it will work out. If not they have 2 weeks money back.



I reviewed them a couple of pages back, they're really great. For optimal battery life use AAC and make sure you do the firmware update.

I would say at 30% off the price is just right. They have so many features that other earphones simply don't have!



turbobb said:


> Just got news about the Klipsch T5 (BT5 and aptX HD):
> https://www.klipsch.com/ces-2019
> That Zippo like case is interesting!
> 
> Should be a few new TWEs being announced at CES.



Battery life is up to 8 hours on a full charge too but not released until June.
https://gizmodo.com/klipschs-new-wireless-earbuds-are-wooing-with-me-with-a-1831403663

I hope Sony and B&O unveil new true wireless earphones at CES.


----------



## webvan

turbobb said:


> Just got news about the Klipsch T5 (BT5 and aptX HD):
> https://www.klipsch.com/ces-2019
> That Zippo like case is interesting!
> 
> Should be a few new TWEs being announced at CES.


Wow they've just invented oval eartips, why had no one ever thought of that before


----------



## nc8000

webvan said:


> Wow they've just invented oval eartips, why had no one ever thought of that before



Klipsch have had oval tips for many years


----------



## nc8000

kiwikozo said:


> I reviewed them a couple of pages back, they're really great. For optimal battery life use AAC and make sure you do the firmware update.
> 
> I would say at 30% off the price is just right. They have so many features that other earphones simply don't have!



Yes I read that. Aac is a given since I’ll be using them with an iPhone


----------



## jeffri

turbobb said:


> Just got news about the Klipsch T5 (BT5 and aptX HD):
> https://www.klipsch.com/ces-2019
> That Zippo like case is interesting!
> 
> Should be a few new TWEs being announced at CES.



If the aptX HD part is true, then this will be the first TWE with one. The T5 is a family of product though, so I doubt the TWE version will get it. But if it does, then I'll be quite interested with it.


----------



## whohasaquestion

For those who spend $200+ on wireless earbuds, are you worried about the battery lifespan? It's a degradable component and after a couple of years of usage it won't hold much of battery life.


----------



## Churchill Wu

turbobb said:


> Just got news about the Klipsch T5 (BT5 and aptX HD):
> https://www.klipsch.com/ces-2019
> That Zippo like case is interesting!
> 
> Should be a few new TWEs being announced at CES.



8 hours of battery life quoted.. do we think that's a single charge or with the case?


----------



## WesennTony

The earbud sponge fits quite well with Sabbat X12 pro, adding more grip, more secure fit without the silicone fin. They also fit the charging case as well, so avoiding the hassle to remove them like the silicone fin/cap.


----------



## jeffri

whohasaquestion said:


> For those who spend $200+ on wireless earbuds, are you worried about the battery lifespan? It's a degradable component and after a couple of years of usage it won't hold much of battery life.



Well, that can't be helped. At least all we can do is to try to take care of the battery as much as we can. I.e draining the lithium battery to zero is harmful, keep it between 25%-75% will prolong the lifespan. For TWE, it won't be possible to keep it from fully charged, but at least we can prevent it from getting empty.



Churchill Wu said:


> 8 hours of battery life quoted.. do we think that's a single charge or with the case?



I believe it is 8 hours usage, 24 hours total with case.


----------



## Churchill Wu

jeffri said:


> Well, that can't be helped. At least all we can do is to try to take care of the battery as much as we can. I.e draining the lithium battery to zero is harmful, keep it between 25%-75% will prolong the lifespan. For TWE, it won't be possible to keep it from fully charged, but at least we can prevent it from getting empty.
> 
> 
> 
> I believe it is 8 hours usage, 24 hours total with case.



Those figures sound decent. Can I ask where you got that from?


----------



## jeffri

The Gizmodo article: https://gizmodo.com/klipschs-new-wireless-earbuds-are-wooing-with-me-with-a-1831403663



> Battery life is pegged at eight hours on a full charge, but that can be boosted to nearly 24 hours with occasional dockings in the T5's lovely, stainless steel battery case


----------



## Churchill Wu

jeffri said:


> The Gizmodo article: https://gizmodo.com/klipschs-new-wireless-earbuds-are-wooing-with-me-with-a-1831403663


Nice. Shame it won't hit markets til second half of the year.


----------



## clerkpalmer

Churchill Wu said:


> Nice. Shame it won't hit markets til second half of the year.


Realistically these will be September October. And man are they ugly.


----------



## webvan

WesennTony said:


> The earbud sponge fits quite well with Sabbat X12 pro, adding more grip, more secure fit without the silicone fin. They also fit the charging case as well, so avoiding the hassle to remove them like the silicone fin/cap.


Thanks for the picture and good news, need to dig out those sponges I have hanging around somewhere to fit them on ! I just came back from an easy run with the Sabbat and they worked well again. With their good bass the inevitable moving isn't problem.


----------



## WesennTony

If earbud already fits snugly in your ear, the sponge won't help though, maybe worse. I found that my right ear fits much better putting the sponge on, while my left ear is better to leave it as is.


----------



## BigZ12

Has anyone got trouble with call quality with the Senn' MTWs?
Almost every call I get/take is good at first, then after a little while the ones I'm talking to says the mic gets distorted. The last one, just a moment ago, said it sounded like "two plastic pieces flapping on each other" when I talked.


----------



## webvan

I don't have them but based on the YT reviews recently posted here it seem the call quality isn't very good with the Senns.



WesennTony said:


> If earbud already fits snugly in your ear, the sponge won't help though, maybe worse. I found that my right ear fits much better putting the sponge on, while my left ear is better to leave it as is.



Yep, I tracked down the little sponges, fit them on and...well it doesn't work for me as I'm not able to "tuck in" the X12 behind "whatever part of the ear it is" and I found the sound a tad muffled. Might be better for static use at home but not for running. As a side note the call quality (at least in a quiet environment) is really good on my end and apparently ok on the other side.


----------



## Luchyres

BigZ12 said:


> Has anyone got trouble with call quality with the Senn' MTWs?
> Almost every call I get/take is good at first, then after a little while the ones I'm talking to says the mic gets distorted. The last one, just a moment ago, said it sounded like "two plastic pieces flapping on each other" when I talked.



That is actually one of the main reasons I decided to return the Senn MTW - I had some sound niggles and complaints about the case charging, but the real killer is what you experienced - my gf would refuse to talk to me after a min or so in to a call on the MTW - said it sounded horrible and impossible to understand me. Maybe they can fix it with an update, but I didn't want the MTW in their current state.


----------



## BigZ12

Luchyres said:


> That is actually one of the main reasons I decided to return the Senn MTW - I had some sound niggles and complaints about the case charging, but the real killer is what you experienced - my gf would refuse to talk to me after a min or so in to a call on the MTW - said it sounded horrible and impossible to understand me. Maybe they can fix it with an update, but I didn't want the MTW in their current state.


Thanks for answering. Yes, sound niggles  like crackling and the infamous SBC noise in the left speaker and now this... If Sennheiser doesn't answer my mail very quickly, I will return my second set very soon.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

whohasaquestion said:


> For those who spend $200+ on wireless earbuds, are you worried about the battery lifespan? It's a degradable component and after a couple of years of usage it won't hold much of battery life.



Nah. Most of us don't stick with one set for even one year let alone enough for the battery to start degrading.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

webvan said:


> Wow they've just invented oval eartips, why had no one ever thought of that before



"Patented," not invented. As in, their specifically patented oval tips. And I actually think Klipsch ear tips are the best out there with Westone's STAR being in a close 2nd.


----------



## webvan

Yeah I was being a bit facetious but I must say that I love the double flange tips that came with my Klipsch S4.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

With Klipsch's recent movements into the more audiophile spectrum of things I'm hella curious if their TWE can hang with the likes of M&D and Senn. I really hope so if that battery life is to be believed.


----------



## turbobb

Three being released by Wicked Audio (no detailed specs yet):
https://www.digitaltrends.com/home-theater/wicked-audio-headphone-lineup-ces-2019/


----------



## doo_wop

https://www.zeroaudio.jp/product/headphones/twz-1000

Another with QCC3026, they say available late January but probably in Japan only, who knows if or when anywhere else.

I wonder if someone will finally announce something with the high end QCC5100 series at CES (other than Klipsch which might have it based on the aptx hd claim?). It was announced a year ago as a Bluetooth saviour and nobody bothered to use it.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

turbobb said:


> Three being released by Wicked Audio (no detailed specs yet):
> https://www.digitaltrends.com/home-theater/wicked-audio-headphone-lineup-ces-2019/



"Wicked Audio is known in the audio world as a company that makes great-sounding "

Stopped reading right there.


----------



## Bob24

B&O’s new E8s might be the first (serious) earphones which can really be called truly wireless (removing the need for a cable to charge the carrying case): https://9to5mac.com/2019/01/03/airpods-wireless-charging-bang-olufsen/

Glad to see this coming and I hope it will quickly become a standard feature.


----------



## SomeGuyDude (Jan 3, 2019)

Am I alone in thinking a wireless charging case is completely pointless? Like, now instead of having a cable to charge the case, there's a pad... that needs a cable.

So now instead of plugging in your headphones, you put your headphones in a case which sits on a pad which is plugged in. What's next? The wireless charging pad that sits in a separate dock? Then the wireless charging pad dock that uses a stand?

And not only that, but how many charging pads are you gonna buy? Cables are dirt cheap and I have like thirty of 'em. I got one in the living room, one in the bedroom, one in the car, the case is always topped off for any situation. Or are people carrying around the charging pad in addition to the case?


----------



## nc8000

Bob24 said:


> B&O’s new E8s might be the first (serious) earphones which can really be called truly wireless (removing the need for a cable to charge the carrying case): https://9to5mac.com/2019/01/03/airpods-wireless-charging-bang-olufsen/
> 
> Glad to see this coming and I hope it will quickly become a standard feature.



Havit G1 comes in a wireless charging version


----------



## kiwikozo (Jan 3, 2019)

Should be a few new TWEs being announced at CES.[/QUOTE]


SomeGuyDude said:


> Am I alone in thinking a wireless charging case is completely pointless? Like, now instead of having a cable to charge the case, there's a pad... that needs a cable.
> 
> So now instead of plugging in your headphones, you put your headphones in a case which sits on a pad which is plugged in. What's next? The wireless charging pad that sits in a separate dock? Then the wireless charging pad dock that uses a stand?



And the fact it is bulkier and much much slower to charge.


----------



## hifi80sman

SomeGuyDude said:


> Nah. Most of us don't stick with one set for even one year let alone enough for the battery to start degrading.


LOL!  So true.  Proud to say, not one battery has degraded on me!



SomeGuyDude said:


> "Wicked Audio is known in the audio world as a company that makes great-sounding "
> 
> Stopped reading right there.


"Wicked Audio" is a catchy company name for the "American Bada$$", but it's basically a re-brand of chi-fi stuff you see all over amazon AND it usually costs more.  The new earbuds basically look like a re-brand of the Anker Liberty.


----------



## MulberryMadness

Churchill Wu said:


> Nice. Shame it won't hit markets til second half of the year.





turbobb said:


> Just got news about the Klipsch T5 (BT5 and aptX HD):
> https://www.klipsch.com/ces-2019
> That Zippo like case is interesting!
> 
> Should be a few new TWEs being announced at CES.


gizmo said not until June at the soonest with no reference to how they got that, only the pdf 'brochure' showed aptX HD, have not seen that anywhere else.

Klipsch's website says "spring 2019"...spring ends (in N hemi) June 20.

https://www.klipsch.com/news/klipsch-to-debut-new-tech-focused-audio-solutions-at-ces-2019

 have to wait until CES to get more details, like what kind of driver???

how is cvc 5 or 6 different from this "Qualcomm cVc 8.0 noise reduction technology" ?

https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/uni-world-s-most-advanced-true-wireless-earbuds#/

Seems like almost every new(in '18 & '19') Chi-Fi tws is using the buzz word 'graphene' as a marketing ploy. 

sure would be nice if Apple would license their proprietary connection chip they use in the Airpods v2 coming...soon???...could use that in their battle with Qualcomm, then they could smoke the Droid mkt with that chip in all the tws coming out.

Fun times later in 2019, but even more in '20. Planar TWS from Audeze maybe?... fer only $1k, lol. Come on Shure/Stax, need a TWS electrostatic drivers w/1day runtime fuel-cell powered, how hard could that be to make...really ;p


----------



## Rickyearl (Jan 3, 2019)

SomeGuyDude said:


> Am I alone in thinking a wireless charging case is completely pointless? Like, now instead of having a cable to charge the case, there's a pad... that needs a cable.
> 
> So now instead of plugging in your headphones, you put your headphones in a case which sits on a pad which is plugged in. What's next? The wireless charging pad that sits in a separate dock? Then the wireless charging pad dock that uses a stand?
> 
> And not only that, but how many charging pads are you gonna buy? Cables are dirt cheap and I have like thirty of 'em. I got one in the living room, one in the bedroom, one in the car, the case is always topped off for any situation. Or are people carrying around the charging pad in addition to the case?



As I read it, since current owners can “upgrade” to the wireless case, the E8s themselves are the same. 

So I think they want to recapture the says when the E8 actually cost $300 plus without doing anything really hard. 

I really don’t get who would pay $200 extra for wireless and USB-C charging.  I mean, it’s nice I guess, but that’s what I paid for the E8s themselves.


----------



## kevinscottcaja

chinmie said:


> wishful thinking, i hope so, even though the sticker did say "standard" on the box
> 
> i haven't tested the mifo too much because i got it (and the new Sabba)  on the 31st December and immediately took them on holiday with me. but i did briefly tested it with my 65t, and the mifo have a warmer bass and also a warmer-smoothly rolled off treble than the 65t.
> 
> by the way, did you mean the QCY T1C or the T1 Pro? the T1 pro only has bt 4.2, does it have stable connection? the T1C seems to have a good overall reviews especially for the really low price of 20 something dollars.


I meant the QCY T1C/T1. For some reason here in Hong Kong, its called the QCY T1 rather than QCY T1C. However in Aliexpress its called the T1C or QS1 in their official QCY aliexpress store: https://www.aliexpress.com/store/pr...with-dual-microphone/1455660_32930424839.html

 
I bought three of them as one will be my personal, the other one as a gift and the last one as a MOD experiment (replacing the driver with a dual balanced armature Knowles GQ). Fairly easy to disassemble with no glue holding the housing, just retainer clips, however when disassembling, I had to be careful not to break the clips.
A Chinese website has also made a teardown of the QCY T1C/T1: http://www.52audio.com/archives/8918.html
and the Sabbat X12 Pro: http://www.52audio.com/archives/6752.html
At the end of the page you'll see it uses the same chipset as Mifo O5 and the Sabbat X12 Pro and E12 Pro which is the Realtek RTL8763B. BTW, have you tried the Sabbat E12 Pro? I'm planning on buying the E12 Pro, it seems you have the X12 Pro.


----------



## Closingracer

hifi80sman said:


> Come on V-Moda, where are the TWEs?  I love my CFW1 with XL ear pads and hope they can get something like that in an industrial TWE form. The BassFit are similar in appearance to the Beats and a bit late to the party.




At this rate they will come out by the time we can just implant speakers into our brain or something


----------



## Closingracer

kiwikozo said:


> I reviewed them a couple of pages back, they're really great. For optimal battery life use AAC and make sure you do the firmware update.
> 
> I would say at 30% off the price is just right. They have so many features that other earphones simply don't have!
> 
> ...




Why ? I like Sony’s and they will since it’s an annual release with there mainstream units . Sony’s are good but there connection is pretty poor imho


----------



## Closingracer

SomeGuyDude said:


> Am I alone in thinking a wireless charging case is completely pointless? Like, now instead of having a cable to charge the case, there's a pad... that needs a cable.
> 
> So now instead of plugging in your headphones, you put your headphones in a case which sits on a pad which is plugged in. What's next? The wireless charging pad that sits in a separate dock? Then the wireless charging pad dock that uses a stand?
> 
> And not only that, but how many charging pads are you gonna buy? Cables are dirt cheap and I have like thirty of 'em. I got one in the living room, one in the bedroom, one in the car, the case is always topped off for any situation. Or are people carrying around the charging pad in addition to the case?




I have a few Qi pads anyways with my new Shaver from Phillips can charge wireless and my phone the case could come in handy


----------



## AnakChan

Closingracer said:


> I have a few Qi pads anyways with my new Shaver from Phillips can charge wireless and my phone the case could come in handy


[OT: Drifting a little away B&O’s wireless charging case a little]
Yes and I think we’ll get there eventually. Taxis in Japan generally have multiple cables for customers to plug in and charge their phones - lightning, microUSB, etc. As more devices start using Qi, I won’t be surprised if charging pads in public spaces become the norm esp in big cities like Tokyo, etc. Starbucks and other cafes can reduce number of wall sockets (yes laptop/netbook owners will still need them, so can’t eliminate altogether, unless a ploy to speed up turnover time - note that in general, in Japan using public power sockets is illegal unless purposefully supplied for the public)...same with bullet trains, etc.
[/OT]


----------



## kiwikozo

Closingracer said:


> Why ? I like Sony’s and they will since it’s an annual release with there mainstream units . Sony’s are good but there connection is pretty poor imho



With each release improvements are expected. Sony has the means to produce true wireless earphones that will easily rival and beat the competition if they wanted to.


----------



## Boreaquis

chinmie said:


> compared to my old sabbat, this one is slightly bigger case (by a millimeter) and changed LED position. sound prompt still in Chinese  and SQ is about the same as the older one.



Which Chinese sound prompts are you referring to? I've only heard English from my Sabbat, "Power On" and "TWS Connected" when removing them from the case, and so on.


----------



## Boreaquis

hifi80sman said:


> "Wicked Audio" is a catchy company name for the "American Bada$$", but it's basically a re-brand of chi-fi stuff you see all over amazon AND it usually costs more.  The new earbuds basically look like a re-brand of the Anker Liberty.



The "Wicked Audio" image looks identical to the Havit I93. I posted pics of mine earlier in this thread.


----------



## Bob24

nc8000 said:


> Havit G1 comes in a wireless charging version



I guess it is matter of point of view, but I don’t see them as a serious option.


----------



## nc8000

Bob24 said:


> I guess it is matter of point of view, but I don’t see them as a serious option.



Yes certainly a matter of opinion. To me they are close enough to the E8 that I swap and switch between them. Neither is the outright winner, both have pros and cond


----------



## Bob24 (Jan 4, 2019)

SomeGuyDude said:


> Am I alone in thinking a wireless charging case is completely pointless? Like, now instead of having a cable to charge the case, there's a pad... that needs a cable.
> 
> So now instead of plugging in your headphones, you put your headphones in a case which sits on a pad which is plugged in. What's next? The wireless charging pad that sits in a separate dock? Then the wireless charging pad dock that uses a stand?
> 
> And not only that, but how many charging pads are you gonna buy? Cables are dirt cheap and I have like thirty of 'em. I got one in the living room, one in the bedroom, one in the car, the case is always topped off for any situation. Or are people carrying around the charging pad in addition to the case?



For me wireless charging is going to become a must have once all small devices support it an we have wireless charging mats capable of charging multiple devices (and we are very close to this).

Exemple: if my smartphone, smart watch, and earphone case charge via Qi. If I have a charging mat on my bedside table and another one on my desk at work which can charge multiple device. I can forget about having the right type of cable or multiple cables: just place any device combination on the table/desk and they will charge seemlessly and simultaneously with no cable clutter.

 Not to mention that that in the near future (in the present in some Asian countries) we will likely have Qi charging pads in public buildings/transport. In short and IMO, for charging small devices USB-C is a transition and Qi is the future standard.


----------



## Boreaquis

MulberryMadness said:


> https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/uni-world-s-most-advanced-true-wireless-earbuds#/
> 
> Seems like almost every new(in '18 & '19') Chi-Fi tws is using the buzz word 'graphene' as a marketing ploy.



These also look identical to my Havit I93, including identical charging case. Pretty funny when this "Canadian" company is showing pencil drawings of their design, etc.

The specs are supposedly way better. Touch controls (like the I96 someone posted a link to earlier), ipx7 waterproof, triple the battery life, wireless charging. Probably to be taken with a pinch of salt though


----------



## Boreaquis

Bob24 said:


> For me wireless charging is going to become a must have once all small devices support it an we have wireless charging mats capable of charging multiple devices (and we are very close to this).
> 
> Exemple: if my smartphone, smart watch, and earphone case charge via Qi. If I have a charging mat on my bedside table and another one on my desk at work which can charge multiple device. I can forget about having the right type of cable or multiple cables: just place any device combination on the table/desk and they will charge seemlessly and simultaneously with no cable clutter.
> 
> Not to mention that that in the near future (in the present in some Asian countries) we will likely have Qi charging pads in public buildings/transport. In short and IMO, for charging small devices USB-C is a transition and Qi is the future standard.



That's how I feel as well. I'm definitely hoping for Qi charging to start to spread into public spaces in the not too distant future. Then again, I've been hoping for this since my Nexus 6P years ago, so it's been a while already


----------



## webvan (Jan 4, 2019)

kevinscottcaja said:


> I meant the QCY T1C/T1. For some reason here in Hong Kong, its called the QCY T1 rather than QCY T1C. However in Aliexpress its called the T1C or QS1 in their official QCY aliexpress store: https://www.aliexpress.com/store/pr...with-dual-microphone/1455660_32930424839.html
> 
> I bought three of them as one will be my personal, the other one as a gift and the last one as a MOD experiment (replacing the driver with a dual balanced armature Knowles GQ). Fairly easy to disassemble with no glue holding the housing, just retainer clips, however when disassembling, I had to be careful not to break the clips.
> A Chinese website has also made a teardown of the QCY T1C/T1: http://www.52audio.com/archives/8918.html
> ...



Hadn't heard ot the E12 Pro but there is some info here https://www.price.com.hk/ec-product-detail.php?ecpid=69366
Apparently they no longer use the open earbuds design that's the unique feature of the X12 IMHO and have switched to a classic "silicone eartip" design.

BTW where can I get the testing too they're showing on that page 







As for the QCY T1 I never managed to make stay in my ears !


----------



## kevinscottcaja (Jan 4, 2019)

webvan said:


> Hadn't heard ot the E12 Pro but there is some info here https://www.price.com.hk/ec-product-detail.php?ecpid=69366
> Apparently they no longer use the open earbuds design that's the unique feature of the X12 and have switched to a classic "silicone eartip" design.
> 
> BTW where can I get the testing too they're showing on that page
> ...



Thanks, I could not resist so I got one my self, a local shop here in Kwun Tong, Hong Kong is selling it for HK$370 (original is HK$499). Initial impression of the Sabbat E12 Pro is good, far better than the T1C. Much smoother treble, and very clear midrange. However it might change after a few hours or days of burn in and usage. It uses silicone buds similar to Sony Hybrids. After checking, it also uses the same RTL8763B chipset, however their have done something different with the implementation of it as it seems to connect instantaneously to my phone, which is great. Microphone sensitivity is really good too, but not useable outside especially in the subway (MTR).


----------



## webvan

Nice, do you confirm that they now seal the ear canal like the other TWEs out there ? That wouldn't make them as useful as the X12s for running (no thumping noise and minimal awareness)

As a side note I wonder how the Sabbats achieve the best battery life for TWEs at this time, is that 60mAh battery really out of the ordinary for TWEs ?


----------



## chinmie

Boreaquis said:


> Which Chinese sound prompts are you referring to? I've only heard English from my Sabbat, "Power On" and "TWS Connected" when removing them from the case, and so on.



my Sabbat still uses Chinese prompt..unless there's a way to change it that i don't know t
yet. the Mifo is already having english prompt ootb



kevinscottcaja said:


> Thanks, I could not resist so I got one my self, a local shop here in Kwun Tong, Hong Kong is selling it for HK$370 (original is HK$499). Initial impression of the Sabbat E12 Pro is good, far better than the T1C. Much smoother treble, and very clear midrange. However it might change after a few hours or days of burn in and usage. It uses silicone buds similar to Sony Hybrids. After checking, it also uses the same RTL8763B chipset, however their have done something different with the implementation of it as it seems to connect instantaneously to my phone, which is great. Microphone sensitivity is really good too, but not useable outside especially in the subway (MTR).



i haven't tried the E12, and if it doesn't have voice thru/ambient mode i don't think i would get them..although I'm intrigued on the sound. can you by any chance compare the sound between the E12 to the X12? also do they have different chip than the X12? 
ooo...and also how does it compare to the Mifos?


----------



## kevinscottcaja

webvan said:


> Nice, do you confirm that they now seal the ear canal like the other TWEs out there ? That wouldn't make them as useful as the X12s for running (no thumping noise and minimal awareness)
> 
> As a side note I wonder how the Sabbats achieve the best battery life for TWEs at this time, is that 60mAh battery really out of the ordinary for TWEs ?


I can confirm they seal, however, there is a small filtered hole at the side of the IEM, it helps to relieve the vacuum effect on the ears of a completely sealed IEMs, I might get the X12 too since I would need something open for running as well. The E12 Pro is meant for my daily commute to work.

Not really about the size of the batter since the Jabra 65T has an 85mAh battery but only rated for 5 hours. The reason why IEMs like the Sabbat, Mifo, etc. get a decent battery life is because of the chipset. They all use the Realtek RTL8763B chipset. It's a direct competitor to Qualcomm's QCC3026, both of them are low powered chipsets and only sips <6mAh for QCC3026 and <8mAh for the RTL8763B. Both of them also support fast charging and since I have collected TWS with all using Realtek's chipset, I can confirm they charge fast, long battery life, and strong signal quality.


----------



## Boreaquis

chinmie said:


> my Sabbat still uses Chinese prompt..unless there's a way to change it that i don't know t
> yet.



Strange, mine was English when I got it. No idea if it can be changed.


----------



## chinmie

Boreaquis said:


> Strange, mine was English when I got it. No idea if it can be changed.



I've just browsed an X12 seller on the net, and they stated that they ship units with English or Chinese prompt at random


----------



## BigZ12

Luchyres said:


> That is actually one of the main reasons I decided to return the Senn MTW - I had some sound niggles and complaints about the case charging, but the real killer is what you experienced - my gf would refuse to talk to me after a min or so in to a call on the MTW - said it sounded horrible and impossible to understand me. Maybe they can fix it with an update, but I didn't want the MTW in their current state.


Any others with similar findings? 
I'm still awaiting feedback from Sennheiser on this.

I have some good news; The crackling that I mentioned a while ago is a known fault, and will be fixed in firmware 1.24 OTA (Smart control app). Release some time this month. 
Nothing new regarding the "SBC noise" we discovered.


----------



## ricarva

SomeGuyDude said:


> Best of luck, five sets had that hiss for me.



So, update on my Elite 65T left bud hiss.

Jabra sent me a brand spanking new left bud and guess what? The hiss is there, identical to a T!

Only really rears its ugly head once the volume goes up a certain step (and it's the exact same step!), and is a on/off affair - meaning that if I go down that particular volume "notch", the hiss pretty much disappears *at once*.

Again, feels more like a feature than a bug  Let's see what Jabra says now...


----------



## TYATYA

ricarva said:


> So, update on my Elite 65T left bud hiss.
> 
> Jabra sent me a brand spanking new left bud and guess what? The hiss is there, identical to a T!
> 
> ...



I faced the same hiss when standing near a big running Mashall blutooth spk. It seems blutooth band interfere. Happen on the left.
Walk out some steps it disappears


----------



## ricarva

TYATYA said:


> I faced the same hiss when standing near a big running Mashall blutooth spk. It seems blutooth band interfere. Happen on the left.
> Walk out some steps it disappears



Sorry, but no: if it where "Bluetooth interference", both buds would have it. Also, on this particular model, the left bud is not Bluetooth but NFMI.

I do believe the hiss is a result of something in the NFMI implementation, and made especially apparent by some quirk of the amplification setup used, but only Jabra can say for sure.

Also, having read complaints on other manufacturer's NFMI buds (MW07s, for example), I'm starting to wonder if this isn't common to all of them...


----------



## BigZ12 (Jan 4, 2019)

Regarding "crackling" noise and bad call quality on Sennheiser MTW.


----------



## nc8000

That was quick. Ordered the Earin E2 Wednesday evening and they just arrived but need to be charged first


----------



## WesennTony

In android phone to make a call, is there a way to listen through TWE while talk via the telephone's mic? I'm using LG V30.


----------



## WesennTony

nc8000 said:


> That was quick. Ordered the Earin E2 Wednesday evening and they just arrived but need to be charged first


I ordered Tuesday and it is scheduled to deliver next Monday. Looking forward to your test.


----------



## CurlyOscar

Had my MW07s for about a week now and probably 4 or 5 times out of 10 the left earbud isn’t connecting. The right one is rock solid. Usually putting the buds back in the case, closing the lid and then taking back out of the case solves it. Any solutions or have I got a faulty set?


----------



## WesennTony

CurlyOscar said:


> Had my MW07s for about a week now and probably 4 or 5 times out of 10 the left earbud isn’t connecting. The right one is rock solid. Usually putting the buds back in the case, closing the lid and then taking back out of the case solves it. Any solutions or have I got a faulty set?


Get a replacement. That's exactly what happened to my first pair.


----------



## CurlyOscar

WesennTony said:


> Get a replacement. That's exactly what happened to my first pair.


Done. A new set are due to be delivered on Monday. Fingers crossed these are a good set because other than that problem I love them


----------



## Rickyearl

BigZ12 said:


> Regarding "crackling" noise and bad call quality on Sennheiser MTW.


Wow, I feel like you may have single-handedly caused not one, but 2 firmware updates.

Also, why release 2 firmware updates in the same month to fix these problems?  Why not roll them into one?


----------



## SomeGuyDude

Rickyearl said:


> Wow, I feel like you may have single-handedly caused not one, but 2 firmware updates.
> 
> Also, why release 2 firmware updates in the same month to fix these problems?  Why not roll them into one?



My guess is that they'd rather not leave any bugs out in the wild longer than necessary.


----------



## urii

I ordered Nanobuda on Indiegogo.
Comments - "Nanobuds do support Aptx- HD, and our custom chip is comparable to Aptx- HD from Qualcomm"
https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/nanobuds-the-worlds-most-extreme-earbuds/x/15453468#/comments


----------



## ricarva

@SomeGuyDude 

Jabra is now replacing my entire unit, saying the potential problem is probably to do with the master/right earbud.

And around we go... :-\


----------



## Rickyearl

urii said:


> I ordered Nanobuda on Indiegogo.
> Comments - "Nanobuds do support Aptx- HD, and our custom chip is comparable to Aptx- HD from Qualcomm"
> https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/nanobuds-the-worlds-most-extreme-earbuds/x/15453468#/comments



So this is pretty ambitious for $35 and March delivery:

~IPX-7 Waterproofing 
 ~Automatically on, automatically connected, with Bluetooth 5.0 
 ~One-tap setup for all your Apple and Android devices 
 ~More than 36-hour battery life with Charging Case 
 ~Charges in 20 min in case 
 ~12 Hours Listening Time on a single charge 
 ~Rich, high-quality audio and voice 
 ~Extreme Bass 
 ~AAC Audio 
 ~Seamless switching between devices


----------



## urii

I want to specify. is 1X - 1 couple or 1 piece? is 2X - 2 couples or 2 pieces?


----------



## korefuji

from the way its listed, I would presume, that it's 1 x = 1 pair


----------



## hifi80sman

Rickyearl said:


> As I read it, since current owners can “upgrade” to the wireless case, the E8s themselves are the same.
> 
> So I think they want to recapture the says when the E8 actually cost $300 plus without doing anything really hard.
> 
> I really don’t get who would pay $200 extra for wireless and USB-C charging.  I mean, it’s nice I guess, but that’s what I paid for the E8s themselves.


No mention of BT 5 either, connection improvements (left side cuts out way too much for something in this price class), or aptX.  Kinda like going to store but forgetting the milk.


----------



## turbobb

WesennTony said:


> In android phone to make a call, is there a way to listen through TWE while talk via the telephone's mic? I'm using LG V30.


I also have V30 and I'm not aware how this is possible... I believe it's doable with software updates since LG's HD Audio Recorder App kind of supports this function - when you plug-in a headset w/mic (so it has a TRRS tip) a "Select mic" option appears where you can choose Phone or Earphones. On Win10, it'd be akin to setting your preferred Playback/Recording devices - LG's phone app would need to be updated to account for this kind of customization (it'd be a neat feature).


----------



## kellte2

Does anyone else have trouble activating transparency mode with the Sennheiser MTW?  I have not yet been able to get the right side to accept this command, but it will accept volume control gestures.  Similarly, the left tap for play/pause will pause music, but will not resume it without closing my Spotify app on my iPhone running 12.1.2.  Again, volume control gestures and track forward/backward work perfectly on the left.  Very frustrating, but wanted to see if anyone else was experiencing difficulty.


----------



## hifi80sman

Boreaquis said:


> The "Wicked Audio" image looks identical to the Havit I93. I posted pics of mine earlier in this thread.


Yep, that's SPOT on, friend.  "Wicked Audio" is just a re-brand and they jack up the prices.


----------



## korefuji

hifi80sman said:


> Yep, that's SPOT on, friend.  "Wicked Audio" is just a re-brand and they jack up the prices.



I wonder who wrote the article then, wicked audio are known in the audio world for,,,


----------



## clerkpalmer

Bose or Pioneer?

https://www.cnet.com/news/pioneer-jumps-on-true-wireless-bandwagon-with-e8-sports-earphones/


----------



## turbobb (Jan 4, 2019)

hifi80sman said:


> Nice!  You're like the try before *I buy* guy.  Initial impressions are what I was hoping for.



Just paying it forward as I'm always thankful for early adopters who volunteer to be guinea pigs  So speaking of the T5... while I'm not ready to do a review yet, sadly I'm encountering random connection issues with intermittent drop out's or disconnects (between L and R). I have it paired with LG V30 that does have BT5 but as it's a Snapdragon 835, it doesn't have the 845's True Wireless Stereo feature where each earpiece can be paired and connected directly with the phone. I believe the way the QCC3026 works on non-845 processors is that each earpiece can function as the master or slave with the first to be turned on acting as the master then the following piece will function as the slave. I'm hoping to find someone with a Galaxy S9 near me so I can test the TWS feature to see if it improves the connection. More to come but doubtful I'm going to have happy news to report with these...   It's a shame because the waterproofing checks out and the SQ is really good and though I haven't run the battery dry, battery life has been great (I think I hit 5 hrs max so far).

Interesting times ahead (for Android owners) later this year or perhaps next year as the 855 processor with Adaptive aptX comes out and TWEs adopt them.


----------



## korefuji

clerkpalmer said:


> Bose or Pioneer?
> 
> https://www.cnet.com/news/pioneer-jumps-on-true-wireless-bandwagon-with-e8-sports-earphones/



I'ts prolly an internal code name, I know pioneer already have a pair of TWEs out, on amazon, but ti had bad reviews from what i recall


----------



## hifi80sman

korefuji said:


> I wonder who wrote the article then, wicked audio are known in the audio world for,,,


Maybe they were paid to write an "article", but it's really an advertisement.

Looks like Wicked Audio buys stuff from Shenzhen Co., Ltd.  If you look at their website (Wicked's), *all *of their stuff are just re-brands.


----------



## xnpu

Rickyearl said:


> So this is pretty ambitious for $35 and March delivery:
> 
> ~IPX-7 Waterproofing
> ~Automatically on, automatically connected, with Bluetooth 5.0
> ...



Pricing, specs and appearance seem to match a product sold on Chinese websites like AliExpress under various names. The only difference being that they list the chip as a AB1526P from Airoha instead of a "custom-designed Pierre Z9".

I'm betting it's the same product, with maybe minor tweaking of the case appearance to have it pass as unique. Custom designed chips just aren't very likely for a relatively small campaign with very low pricing. 

Regardless, reviews for those products do look good and at that pricing you can't really go wrong.


----------



## korefuji

xnpu said:


> Pricing, specs and appearance seem to match a product sold on Chinese websites like AliExpress under various names. The only difference being that they list the chip as a AB1526P from Airoha instead of a "custom-designed Pierre Z9".
> 
> I'm betting it's the same product, with maybe minor tweaking of the case appearance to have it pass as unique. Custom designed chips just aren't very likely for a relatively small campaign with very low pricing.
> 
> Regardless, reviews for those products do look good and at that pricing you can't really go wrong.




I agree, though it's still interesting tha tthey're claiming they are now producing them, and no longer at concept stage. Their aim was a relatively modest 1k, so I'm not sure how that will vouch for quality control.


----------



## ocalderon

turbobb said:


> Just paying it forward as I'm always thankful for early adopters who volunteer to be guinea pigs  So speaking of the T5... while I'm not ready to do a review yet, sadly I'm encountering random connection issues with intermittent drop out's or disconnects (between L and R). I have it paired with LG V30 that does have BT5 but as it's a Snapdragon 835, it doesn't have the 845's True Wireless Stereo feature where each earpiece can be paired and connected directly with the phone. I believe the way the QCC3026 works on non-845 processors is that each earpiece can function as the master or slave with the first to be turned on acting as the master then the following piece will function as the slave. I'm hoping to find someone with a Galaxy S9 near me so I can test the TWS feature to see if it improves the connection. More to come but doubtful I'm going to have happy news to report with these...   It's a shame because the waterproofing checks out and the SQ is really good and though I haven't run the battery dry, battery life has been great (I think I hit 5 hrs max so far).
> 
> Interesting times ahead (for Android owners) later this year or perhaps next year as the 855 processor with Adaptive aptX comes out and TWEs adopt them.



You're talking about MPOW T5?  what a shame. Are these random connection issues happening frequently?


----------



## urii

I do not wait for quality from Nanobuds. It is just curious what the miracle for such little money is. And I am ready for Klipsh T5.


----------



## mikp

Rickyearl said:


> So this is pretty ambitious for $35 and March delivery:
> 
> ~IPX-7 Waterproofing
> ~Automatically on, automatically connected, with Bluetooth 5.0
> ...



Their comment seems funny, they made their own codec:
_Thanks for your question! The current chip present in Nanobuds is the Pierre Z9 chip, which we have designed and created specifically for our audio products. The codec used is our own and for reference we believe is slightly better then AptX. Nanobuds are not currently capable of wireless charging, but we plan to roll out a stretch goal soon to include it in the design._
_
_
And who is this? 
*Ryan Smith- C.E.O of Pierre Audio *

*




*


----------



## urii

Swindlers? But I do not grudge $34. I am interested in aptx-HD if, of course, they did not tell lies


----------



## jeffri

lol it's pretty clear that they don't know what they are talking about


----------



## SomeGuyDude (Jan 4, 2019)

urii said:


> Swindlers? But I do not grudge $34. I am interested in aptx-HD if, of course, they did not tell lies



Who cares about aptX-HD if the headphones are crap? Y'all act like the codec is all that matters.

Remember, wired headphones have a 1:1 lossless analog transfer, but trash headphones are still trash headphones. A good set of drivers with a quality chip in SBC will beat the absolute tar out of bulk Chinese OEM  junk with friggin LDAC and BT5.0.


----------



## mikp

urii said:


> Swindlers? But I do not grudge $34. I am interested in aptx-HD if, of course, they did not tell lies



And you joined today to tell us about it


----------



## hifi80sman

mikp said:


> And you joined today to tell us about it


"Ryan Smith".  How original.  Perhaps "Ry-ann Smithers" would have been more convincing or the obligatory Chi-Fi naming system of "RATOW PFFFT".


----------



## urii

He agrees. I threw out this money. But me it is all the same curious what crap is. I hope that Klipsch will not bring with Aptx-HD.


----------



## urii

Yes, excuse me for this news ;(


----------



## Closingracer

kiwikozo said:


> With each release improvements are expected. Sony has the means to produce true wireless earphones that will easily rival and beat the competition if they wanted to.




They could but meh. I Tired their $200 dollar marked ones thar came out in 2017 and the similar 700 ones that was pretty much the same but sport oriented that came out last year and my only issue was the connection between buds was bad enough I got rid of them.


----------



## Closingracer

AnakChan said:


> [OT: Drifting a little away B&O’s wireless charging case a little]
> Yes and I think we’ll get there eventually. Taxis in Japan generally have multiple cables for customers to plug in and charge their phones - lightning, microUSB, etc. As more devices start using Qi, I won’t be surprised if charging pads in public spaces become the norm esp in big cities like Tokyo, etc. Starbucks and other cafes can reduce number of wall sockets (yes laptop/netbook owners will still need them, so can’t eliminate altogether, unless a ploy to speed up turnover time - note that in general, in Japan using public power sockets is illegal unless purposefully supplied for the public)...same with bullet trains, etc.
> [/OT]




I wouldn’t call it off topic because at the end of the day I would of loved if the Master and Dynamic MW07 case could be charged wirelessly but SQ is so good and the craftsmanship is so good I don’t even mind along with the fact it has USB type C. Wireless charging is even better because now you don’t even need to worry about iPhones or Android since it’s the only universal charging solution with the only minority would be the ones that don’t offer wireless charging now ( iPhones before 8 and any android phone that didn’t add it ) the Apple air power would of been nice with the wireless charging air pods but since I have two or three Qi chargers having the B&O E8 2.0 and my iPhone X wireless charging would of been a plus for me. I liked the E8 when I had them and if they came out now before I heard the MW07 I probably would of gotten the 2.0 because of the charging.


----------



## Rickyearl

xnpu said:


> Pricing, specs and appearance seem to match a product sold on Chinese websites like AliExpress under various names. The only difference being that they list the chip as a AB1526P from Airoha instead of a "custom-designed Pierre Z9".
> 
> I'm betting it's the same product, with maybe minor tweaking of the case appearance to have it pass as unique. Custom designed chips just aren't very likely for a relatively small campaign with very low pricing.
> 
> Regardless, reviews for those products do look good and at that pricing you can't really go wrong.



Any chance you could link me to one of those reviews?


----------



## turbobb

ocalderon said:


> You're talking about MPOW T5?  what a shame. Are these random connection issues happening frequently?



Yeah, the MPOW T5. It's not horrible, sometimes I can go hours, sometimes it'll hiccup a few times within minutes. Not really sure what's triggering (phone in/out of pocket, particular spot around the house etc.) as it seems to be truly random and I can't reproduce the issue. The range also isn't great either... Turns out my bro-in-law has a Note 9 w/the 845 so going to test with the TWS function next he's over.


----------



## nc8000

Initial experience with the Earin M2 (after 2 x 30 minutes firm ware update) is very positive, looks like they might be everything I hoped they would be


----------



## kiwikozo

nc8000 said:


> Initial experience with the Earin M2 (after 2 x 30 minutes firm ware update) is very positive, looks like they might be everything I hoped they would be



After using them for two days I've become super impressed. Even the capsule is tiny and openable with 1 hand, and the auto left / right + super fast connection means you can open the capsule and have music playing within 5 seconds.

I've ordered the spinfit cp100 silicon eartips from Amazon US. Have heard great things.


----------



## Rickyearl

nc8000 said:


> Initial experience with the Earin M2 (after 2 x 30 minutes firm ware update) is very positive, looks like they might be everything I hoped they would be



Did you happen to listen before the update?  If so, what changed?  Sound profile or just infrastructure stuff?


----------



## kiwikozo (Jan 4, 2019)

Rickyearl said:


> Did you happen to listen before the update?  If so, what changed?  Sound profile or just infrastructure stuff?



When I briefly listened to the M2 before the update they sounded muddy and distorted. Almost comparable to my single loudspeaker on the s8+. The update really transformed mine.

Clarity isn't as great as the Sennheiser MTW, but the bass is punchier and overall far better suited for gym/commutes. The noise isolation of the M2 is brilliant.


----------



## korefuji

nc8000 said:


> Initial experience with the Earin M2 (after 2 x 30 minutes firm ware update) is very positive, looks like they might be everything I hoped they would be



How would you rate them against the Jabra Active? And is the call quality good or bad, I've seen mixtures of good and bad reviews about that


----------



## korefuji

Does anyone have a discount code for the earin website? I might take a gamble


----------



## clerkpalmer

korefuji said:


> Does anyone have a discount code for the earin website? I might take a gamble


No code needed. Black is sold out or I would have too


----------



## korefuji

So i noticed. Dunno if i should wait or opt for the white


----------



## howdy

I hope that the B&O E8 and Senns future updates get a 5 to 10 band eq. I'm not a fan of the ball or the Squiggly line, I can never get it exactly how I want it. My Jaybird Runs have a kick butt app and the eq is easier than the aforementioned.


----------



## turbobb

UPDATE: MPOW T5 - just tested on a Galaxy Note 9 but the connection wasn't meaningfully better. The connection method also didn't seem different than on my V30; with either phone, I can see each of the earpiece (designated by name and then side (L,R)) and can connect to each one and use one individually. I typically don't use my earbuds far from my phone (main use case would usually be in my pockets on way to work and on my desk at work) so I'm going to see if I can nail down what causes the intermittent disconnects. Darn, these would've been a stand out budget set if not for this...


----------



## hifi80sman

turbobb said:


> Yeah, the MPOW T5. It's not horrible, sometimes I can go hours, sometimes it'll hiccup a few times within minutes. Not really sure what's triggering (phone in/out of pocket, particular spot around the house etc.) as it seems to be truly random and I can't reproduce the issue. The range also isn't great either... Turns out my bro-in-law has a Note 9 w/the 845 so going to test with the TWS function next he's over.


Is he coming over, um, today?  

I just ordered these "for the gym" (just another excuse to buy something) since it sounds like the MPOW T5 may have some challenges.  $39 and same day delivery.  We'll see.  I ended up returning my Anker Zolo Liberty+, as they kept slipping in the gym and I otherwise couldn't get a good fit.  Bass was a little weaker than the regular Liberty version (going off memory).


----------



## nc8000

kiwikozo said:


> After using them for two days I've become super impressed. Even the capsule is tiny and openable with 1 hand, and the auto left / right + super fast connection means you can open the capsule and have music playing within 5 seconds.
> 
> I've ordered the spinfit cp100 silicon eartips from Amazon US. Have heard great things.



I also have the SpinFits on the way. Have been using SpinFit on the E8 for a year and before that on the qJays V2 and been happy with them


----------



## hifi80sman

turbobb said:


> UPDATE: MPOW T5 - just tested on a Galaxy Note 9 but the connection wasn't meaningfully better. The connection method also didn't seem different than on my V30; with either phone, I can see each of the earpiece (designated by name and then side (L,R)) and can connect to each one and use one individually. I typically don't use my earbuds far from my phone (main use case would usually be in my pockets on way to work and on my desk at work) so I'm going to see if I can nail down what causes the intermittent disconnects. Darn, these would've been a stand out budget set if not for this...


I guess he did come over!


----------



## nc8000

Rickyearl said:


> Did you happen to listen before the update?  If so, what changed?  Sound profile or just infrastructure stuff?



Went straight ahead and did the update as the first thing.


----------



## korefuji

nc8000 said:


> I also have the SpinFits on the way. Have been using SpinFit on the E8 for a year and before that on the qJays V2 and been happy with them


Any particular reason you chose spinfits to comply, or is this a case of personal preference, and fit, rather than one being better than the other?


----------



## nc8000

korefuji said:


> How would you rate them against the Jabra Active? And is the call quality good or bad, I've seen mixtures of good and bad reviews about that



Have never tried the Jabra. Calls have a very low priority for me as I make very few but have not tried yet


----------



## nc8000

korefuji said:


> Any particular reason you chose spinfits to comply, or is this a case of personal preference, and fit, rather than one being better than the other?



Purely because they last much longer and are much easier to keep clean


----------



## Spamateur (Jan 4, 2019)

Audio Technica ATH-CKR7TW arrived today. Here are my initial impressions:

The out-of-box experience isn't confidence-inspiring. The packaging is pretty flimsy and cheap-feeling, which is not a good first impression for something that cost $250. Unfortunately, that experience continues with the case. The case is about the size of the Bose Soundsport Free case but thicker from top to bottom, and it also feels cheaper. It has an unsatisfying hinge that's just a touch too loose. A tighter hinge would probably solve the initial impression of cheap build quality. The most annoying part was the case battery was completely dead when it arrived.

The IEMs themselves are very light and very comfortable. They are not very stable in your ears until you use the little rubber stabilizers. Why the stabilizers do not come installed from the factory I do not know, but it is annoying. The earpieces themselves are so light that you barely notice them after putting them in. The stems themselves are quite long, which is a godsend for those of us with big ear canals. Unfortunately the earpieces themselves have somewhat suspect build quality as the tradeoff for the lack of mass. They creaked a bit when I was struggling to install the stabilizers, which was mildly alarming.

Pairing with my phone was easy and drama-free, but the Audio Technica Connect app sucks and doesn't "find" your IEMs 60% of the time. The app also only has a few functions: battery life indicator, codec being used (and an option to switch codec), a locator that shows you the last place you used the earbuds in case you lose them, and some sort of media player for local files. There is no EQ, which is a crying shame as you'll see in a second.

Battery life seems great if the battery percentage the app is showing me is accurate. I'm guessing the quoted specs for battery life aren't exaggerated, which is damn impressive.

As for sound, just a heads up that I prefer a mostly neutral frequency response with a slight bass lift. I think most people in this thread prefer a bassier/warmer/thicker sound, so take my impressions with a grain of salt.

The CKR7TW in general have a very neutral frequency response through out the audio band... up until the treble region. There's a big treble spike that comes out of nowhere and is really grating and distorted. It reminds me of that troublesome treble spot that the Jabra Elite 65t has, except much wider and worse. I'm guessing there's some driver breakup in that region as it sounds a touch distorted. If you were to ask me to describe them in one word, I'd probably say "bright" just because that region is by far the most prominent part of the frequency response. If you have songs with sssssibilance these IEMs will probably exacerbate that sharpness and sound distorted in that region. Poorly mastered tracks sound especially harsh. I was trying to listen to Pusha T's "Hard Piano" and the snap/snare crack was downright uncomfortable to listen to.

BUT, what kills me is other than that pretty obvious treble glare, these have a lot of potential. I downloaded Neutralizer, a 10-band EQ app for my phone, and was able to get a much more pleasant response just by dropping the treble bands. However, that EQ profile obviously lives on my phone, and only while the equalizer app is running on my phone. It really frustrates me that Audio Technica's app doesn't have it's own EQ function that saves an EQ profile to the earbuds themselves like every other top-tier IEM on the market.

As for the rest of the frequency response, bass is well-defined and neutral in quantity, but could use more bass quantity and subbass extension. Bassheads would hate these IEMs, especially without EQ. The mids are likewise neutral but have a bit of grain that is all-too common in IEMs, but is more apparent here than with the MTW and Bose. The tonality is really natural, neutral and detailed, although some might call it thin if they're used to thick lower mids and lots of bass (like the MTW). Soundstage is spacious by IEM standards, with a bit more perceived space than the MTW, although I find vocals on the MTW to be on the intimate side. Layering is quite good.

Honestly, if Audio Technica were to some add a good 5- or 7-band EQ to their app that also saves the profile to the headphones, I'd probably consider keeping them. I think the sound of the CKR7TW is technically on par with the Bose and MTW in some ways, and the CKR7TW has fewer  functional compromises than either of those headphones. (They're far superior to the sound of the Jabra Elite 65t IF you can fix the treble response, but I feel like that goes without saying.)

Anyway, I'll be returning these. I wish Audio Technica had put some work into their app as an EQ is a bare minimum for any TW IEM in this price range. They sound so bright out of the box that I just can't see AT selling many of these.

My current rankings:

1) Bose Soundsport Free
2) Sennheiser MTW
3) Audio Technica CKR7TW (with EQ)
4) Jabra Elite 65t
5 tied) Audio Technica CKR7TW (no EQ)
5 tied) B&O E8
.
.
.
1,472) Apple Airpods



EDIT: I just swapped back to the MTW to do a head-to-head comparison. One item of note is that the MTW are much thicker in presentation and tonality, but luckily that doesn't bleed too badly into the mids. The MTW is missing some of that ultimate clarity for a more consumer sound, although it makes up for it with clean, grain-free mids. Also, the MTW have a slight noisefloor while the AT was quieter with virtually no hissing. It isn't a big deal to me, but might be to others. I'm guessing the discrete DAC that Audio Technica is using is paying dividends in noisefloor.


----------



## kiwikozo

nc8000 said:


> I also have the SpinFits on the way. Have been using SpinFit on the E8 for a year and before that on the qJays V2 and been happy with them



I find deeper reaching silicon tips more comfortable 
Hence I ordered the cp100 instead of the cp100z - better suited for the conventional shape TW earphones.

Which ones do you have and how do they compare in terms of fit than the comply/silicon ones supplied with the M2s?


----------



## korefuji (Jan 4, 2019)

Yeah if someone can advise on the spinfits to get for the m2 I'd be grateful< I ordered a pair of white M2's, so, I guess im out of this club. I'll get me coat.

NVM: Just read, CP100, are Mediums my best bet though?


----------



## nc8000

korefuji said:


> Yeah if someone can advise on the spinfits to get for the m2 I'd be grateful< I ordered a pair of white M2's, so, I guess im out of this club. I'll get me coat.
> 
> NVM: Just read, CP100, are Mediums my best bet though?



Depends on your ears. I use large


----------



## nc8000 (Jan 4, 2019)

kiwikozo said:


> I find deeper reaching silicon tips more comfortable
> Hence I ordered the cp100 instead of the cp100z - better suited for the conventional shape TW earphones.
> 
> Which ones do you have and how do they compare in terms of fit than the comply/silicon ones supplied with the M2s?



Yes I’m in the “the deeper the better” brigade coming originally from the Etymotics near brain implant fit. The supplied tips with the M2 are not big enough for my ears


----------



## turbobb

hifi80sman said:


> I guess he did come over!


Ha, yes he did. Looking forward to your impressions on the Comexion (< really? well at least it's pronounceable lol)


----------



## hifi80sman

Spamateur said:


> 1 tied) Sennheiser MTW
> 1 tied) Bose Soundsport Free
> 3) Audio Technica CKR7TW (with EQ)
> 4) Jabra Elite 65t
> ...


Nice review.  Seems like they are what I thought they would be.  It's a shame, because outside the M50xBT, all their wireless stuff is very marginal, especially when there is no *real *app control (I do like the codec transparency, however).  It seems like they are content playing to their niche and aren't growth focused.  Forget your niche!  Go BIG!  LOL @ Airpods.


----------



## hifi80sman

turbobb said:


> Ha, yes he did. Looking forward to your impressions on the Comexion (< really? well at least it's pronounceable lol)


I think they named it after a Roman Soldier...or Comic-con.


----------



## jeffri

Spamateur said:


> Audio Technica ATH-CKR7TW arrived today. Here are my initial impressions:
> 
> The out-of-box experience isn't confidence-inspiring. The packaging is pretty flimsy and cheap-feeling, which is not a good first impression for something that cost $250. Unfortunately, that experience continues with the case. The case is about the size of the Bose Soundsport Free case but thicker from top to bottom, and it also feels cheaper. It has an unsatisfying hinge that's just a touch too loose. A tighter hinge would probably solve the initial impression of cheap build quality. The most annoying part was the case battery was completely dead when it arrived.
> 
> ...



Nice review. My first impression were almost the same though, but after a while, the treble doesn't bother me as much now. Maybe a mental burn in, idk. Anyway, the build on mine is solid, are you sure you aren't pressing the button when installing the wing?


----------



## Spamateur

hifi80sman said:


> Nice review.  Seems like they are what I thought they would be.  It's a shame, because outside the M50xBT, all their wireless stuff is very marginal, especially when there is no *real *app control (I do like the codec transparency, however).  It seems like they are content playing to their niche and aren't growth focused.  Forget your niche!  Go BIG!  LOL @ Airpods.



Yeah, it's really disappointing they're not making waves in the wireless space as they clearly have the engineering prowess to make solid products.


----------



## Spamateur

jeffri said:


> Nice review. My first impression were almost the same though, but after a while, the treble doesn't bother me as much now. Maybe a mental burn in, idk. Anyway, the build on mine is solid, are you sure you aren't pressing the button when installing the wing?



Thanks!

I had a similar experience where after some listening I found the frequency response to be tolerable. However, then I changed to another artist and it sounded horribly bright. I think these are very song-specific as to how they sound in a way I haven't encountered before.

Hmmm... it could be that I was pressing the buttons, but the buttons on mine don't seem to creak. I was holding the largest part of the housing when I was prying off the rubber rings to install the stabilizers and that's when I felt the housing flex and creak. I might have been a little rough with them, but it was the only way I could get the dang rubber pieces on and off.


----------



## jeffri

Spamateur said:


> Thanks!
> 
> I had a similar experience where after some listening I found the frequency response to be tolerable. However, then I changed to another artist and it sounded horribly bright. I think these are very song-specific as to how they sound in a way I haven't encountered before.
> 
> Hmmm... it could be that I was pressing the buttons, but the buttons on mine don't seem to creak. I was holding the largest part of the housing when I was prying off the rubber rings to install the stabilizers and that's when I felt the housing flex and creak. I might have been a little rough with them, but it was the only way I could get the dang rubber pieces on and off.



Well, it definitely isn't as forgiving as warmer sounding IEM. Think of it like HD800 I guess. Some track will sound really good with these. Personally, I really enjoy listening to classical or instrumental piece here and female vocals that aren't too busy.

The button is easily pressed when you are installing wing and eartips, there's a few times that I turned this off when exchanging eartips. I guess you'll know if it is creaking when you install the default rubber back.


----------



## hifi80sman (Jan 5, 2019)

OK, so first impressions of the budget Comexion TWE:

Unboxing is pretty straightforward and your typical Chi-Fi experience.  Nothing fancy, minimalist, but still well packaged.

PROS
- Big bass response.
- Decent mids and highs.  Given we're taking $39, I think "decent" is a pro.  Overall smooth sound.
- Excellent fit.  They use a sort of SpinFit tip and ergonomic design is very good.
- Solid touch controls.  I'd say they are on par with the E8 and have a similar control scheme.
- Track & Volume controls.
- Nice matte finish on earbuds and case.
- Earbuds attach to case magnetically.  Lid also magnetic.
- BT 5 and excellent range.  Better range than the E8 & MW07 (both are BT 4.2).
- Great video sync performance.

CONS
- Bass bleed.
- Micro USB.
- "Plasticy" case.
- Not for those seeking a clear & transparent sound.

Overall, for $39, these are actually *way *better than I expected.  Great for the gym and those that enjoy a bass-forward sound.  I would classify these as "fun" TWEs.  I actually enjoyed them whilst watching a movie, so I can see myself using these as more than just a one-hit-wonder.  Haven't tested out the battery enough, but so far, so good.  Currently, these are my #1 budget TWEs.


----------



## nc8000




----------



## episiarch

The Earins are currently 30% off at the Earin site (at least here in the UK). No idea how long that will last.


----------



## nc8000

episiarch said:


> The Earins are currently 30% off at the Earin site (at least here in the UK). No idea how long that will last.



Yep but the black is sold out, I got one of the last. Btw. they are in Malmö in Sweden


----------



## korefuji

I did buy the white ones, since black was sold out


----------



## webvan

It was mentioned they had a 14 day return policy, can't see that on their website, is it specified on the invoice?


----------



## nc8000

webvan said:


> It was mentioned they had a 14 day return policy, can't see that on their website, is it specified on the invoice?



It’s right on the front page of their web site


----------



## WesennTony

Seems the white color is more like almond milk, which IMO is better than pure white.


----------



## webvan

On their mobile site, ok, can't find any reference to that on their full website or in their policies : https://earin.com/front/terms-condition/ - there is a reference to a "Return Policy" but no link I can see.


----------



## nc8000

webvan said:


> On their mobile site, ok, can't find any reference to that on their full website or in their policies : https://earin.com/front/terms-condition/ - there is a reference to a "Return Policy" but no link I can see.



It’s on the front page no matter how or from what device or browser you reach their site


----------



## nc8000 (Jan 5, 2019)

At about 40% volume and on aac (I assume since I’m on an iPhone) the Earin M2 gave me just over 3 hours play time. 

And the large SpinFit CP100 just barely fit in the charging case, it’s a bit of a struggle to get the buds seated to charge


----------



## korefuji

nc8000 said:


> At about 40% volume and on aac (I assume since I’m on an iPhone) the Earin M2 gave me just over 3 hours play time.
> 
> And the large SpinFit CP100 just barely fit in the charging case, it’s a bit of a struggle to get the buds seated to charge



Just over three hours @ 40% they claim 4 hours of continuous use, so I guess that's at 20%?


----------



## Spamateur

Folks with the MTW, are any of you using foam tips? It looks like Comply's website only recommends the TrueGrip, which only comes in small/medium which I know for a fact isn't going to fit my ears.


----------



## hifi80sman

korefuji said:


> Just over three hours @ 40% they claim 4 hours of continuous use, so I guess that's at 20%?


So, I've been looking more at the battery mAh ratings vs. stated playtime.  The Erin M-2 have a 60 mAh battery, while the Jabra 65t have a 85 - 90 mAh battery.  Given it's established the Jabra can go 4-5 hours depending on volume AND the 1More TWE have 55 mAh and rated at 2.5 hours (50% volume), 4 hours sounds a bit overstated.


----------



## nc8000

hifi80sman said:


> So, I've been looking more at the battery mAh ratings vs. stated playtime.  The Erin M-2 have a 60 mAh battery, while the Jabra 65t have a 85 - 90 mAh battery.  Given it's established the Jabra can go 4-5 hours depending on volume AND the 1More TWE have 55 mAh and rated at 2.5 hours (50% volume), 4 hours sounds a bit overstated.



The Beoplay E8 has 60 in the slave and 85 in the master and last a bit over 4 hours. 

The Havit G1 has 60 in each and last just about 4 hours. 

The Earin M2 however has by far the best fit and form factor for me. Sound of all 3 is about the same in practical use with ambient noice. M2 and G1 have rock solid connection where the E8 has frequent short left unit drop outs. 

I expect that the M2 will be my daily driver in the future


----------



## Boreaquis

My Chinese ones for comparison, info from spec sheets on manual/box:

Havit I93

60mAh battery
3.5h play time. (Lasted 4h in my tests)
2200 mAh charging case
Sabbat X12 Pro:

60mAh battery
6h play time. (Lasted 7h in my tests)
750 mAh charging case


----------



## kiwikozo

On my s8+, aptX, the Earin M2 last around 3 hours at 70% volume - still incredibly loud.

Every time they connect to my s8+ the codec resets to aptX and when I try AAC it gets buggy with volume controls so I'm leaving it on aptX.



nc8000 said:


> At about 40% volume and on aac (I assume since I’m on an iPhone) the Earin M2 gave me just over 3 hours play time.
> 
> And the large SpinFit CP100 just barely fit in the charging case, it’s a bit of a struggle to get the buds seated to charge



Those are the large spinfit cp100 tips right? I ordered the medium so I hope that there are no fit issues.


----------



## nc8000

kiwikozo said:


> On my s8+, aptX, the Earin M2 last around 3 hours at 70% volume - still incredibly loud.
> 
> Every time they connect to my s8+ the codec resets to aptX and when I try AAC it gets buggy with volume controls so I'm leaving it on aptX.
> 
> ...



Yes they are large CP100. Yes they can get extremely loud, much louder than E8 and G1


----------



## varyV

nc8000 said:


> The Beoplay E8 has 60 in the slave and 85 in the master and last a bit over 4 hours.
> 
> The Havit G1 has 60 in each and last just about 4 hours.
> 
> ...



I’m amazed by how well the G1 seem to be holding their own against much more expensive sets like the E8s. Either the Havits are punching well above their weight, or we have a mediocre first gen run of TWEs, perhaps even a combination of the two.

Has anyone else had any experience with the Treblab X5? $80 at Treblab.com and they have a 20% off coupon presently as well. Looks aren’t exactly stellar, but the sound seems to be on par or even a little better than the G1s.


----------



## hifi80sman

varyV said:


> I’m amazed by how well the G1 seem to be holding their own against much more expensive sets like the E8s. Either the Havits are punching well above their weight, or we have a mediocre first gen run of TWEs, perhaps even a combination of the two.
> 
> Has anyone else had any experience with the Treblab X5? $80 at Treblab.com and they have a 20% off coupon presently as well. Looks aren’t exactly stellar, but the sound seems to be on par or even a little better than the G1s.


I had the Treblab X5 and the sound (bass-boosted, yet clear) and fit were great.  Full controls on the earbuds as well.  Wasn’t a fan of the AirPod look, so ended up returning them.


----------



## nc8000

varyV said:


> I’m amazed by how well the G1 seem to be holding their own against much more expensive sets like the E8s. Either the Havits are punching well above their weight, or we have a mediocre first gen run of TWEs, perhaps even a combination of the two.
> 
> Has anyone else had any experience with the Treblab X5? $80 at Treblab.com and they have a 20% off coupon presently as well. Looks aren’t exactly stellar, but the sound seems to be on par or even a little better than the G1s.



Yes the G1 is certainly great value for money. 

The M2 nfmi link is much stronger than the one on the E8, I can remove either unit probably 10-15 cm from my head before loosing connection, the E8 loose connection immediately. That could explain the shorter battery life and the rock solid connection


----------



## Boreaquis

varyV said:


> I’m amazed by how well the G1 seem to be holding their own against much more expensive sets like the E8s. Either the Havits are punching well above their weight, or we have a mediocre first gen run of TWEs, perhaps even a combination of the two.



The first run of "high-end" TWEs definitely seem mediocre to me. I would certainly expect the $200-300 products of big companies to beat $40 Chinese stuff on features (battery life, waterproofing, good magnetic cases, BT5, etc),  which they don't seem to do at the moment.

Fingers crossed for the next generation of products, I guess.


----------



## howdy

nc8000 said:


> Yes the G1 is certainly great value for money.
> 
> The M2 nfmi link is much stronger than the one on the E8, I can remove either unit probably 10-15 cm from my head before loosing connection, the E8 loose connection immediately. That could explain the shorter battery life and the rock solid connection


I just tried that with my E8s I pulled the left and right out together at the same time and they where about a foot and half apart before the left gave out. Not sure if you did it that exact way. Just wanted to note that my E8s are pretty rock solid with connection especially after the update.


----------



## webvan

Used my X12s again today for both bike riding and running, still happy with them even though they don't have the best "clarity" but using them to call while riding my bike didn't work very well, let alone trying to activate "Google Assistant" there's just too much wind noise and the volume of the prompts was too low. The person on the other side seemed to understand what I was saying though so it's not all bad


----------



## nc8000

howdy said:


> I just tried that with my E8s I pulled the left and right out together at the same time and they where about a foot and half apart before the left gave out. Not sure if you did it that exact way. Just wanted to note that my E8s are pretty rock solid with connection especially after the update.



I leave one in ear and take the other straight out so the head is still in between the ear pieces. The M2 maintains the link for a bigger distance than the E8. My E8 has many very short left unit drop outs, probably one every few minutes although it sometimes goes much longer between drop outs. I was haven a mail conversation with B&O about it but eventually they simply stopped responding


----------



## chinmie

me personally prefer non-NFMI type, because i like to be able to pull one out of my ears while atill listening to the music. the Earin still lets me do that, but only one side, while the Jabra pauses the music whenever i remove one. luckily it still has an ambient mode, but sometimes i just want to scratch my ears without stopping the music.

the sony, sabbat, and mifo (while slightly have more dropouts on one side than the NFMIs) lets me do just that


----------



## nc8000

chinmie said:


> me personally prefer non-NFMI type, because i like to be able to pull one out of my ears while atill listening to the music. the Earin still lets me do that, but only one side, while the Jabra pauses the music whenever i remove one. luckily it still has an ambient mode, but sometimes i just want to scratch my ears without stopping the music.
> 
> the sony, sabbat, and mifo (while slightly have more dropouts on one side than the NFMIs) lets me do just that



Yes the Havit G1 also allows this which is nice


----------



## howdy

nc8000 said:


> I leave one in ear and take the other straight out so the head is still in between the ear pieces. The M2 maintains the link for a bigger distance than the E8. My E8 has many very short left unit drop outs, probably one every few minutes although it sometimes goes much longer between drop outs. I was haven a mail conversation with B&O about it but eventually they simply stopped responding


I was in conversation with them as well and come to find out I was using the wrong app on my phone. My battery life sucked on them but now with the right app and deleted the other everything is perfect, (or close to it).


----------



## nc8000

howdy said:


> I was in conversation with them as well and come to find out I was using the wrong app on my phone. My battery life sucked on them but now with the right app and deleted the other everything is perfect, (or close to it).



What do you mean with the wrong app ?

I’ve had just over 4 hours on the E8 right from the start over a year ago


----------



## howdy

nc8000 said:


> What do you mean with the wrong app ?
> 
> I’ve had just over 4 hours on the E8 right from the start over a year ago


There is 2 different apps for the E8 and initially downloaded the wrong one. They should get rid of the other one. It has a lot of the same features but I don't think they update it anymore.


----------



## varyV

hifi80sman said:


> I had the Treblab X5 and the sound (bass-boosted, yet clear) and fit were great.  Full controls on the earbuds as well.  Wasn’t a fan of the AirPod look, so ended up returning them.


They definitely seem like an interesting budget choice. How did you find the build quality on them? I know the case looks a little flimsy, but can’t tell a lot about the iems from the reviews. I’m not the biggest fan of the AirPod look myself, but these don’t look too revolting to me. Sound wise, can these be compared to the E8s (or the H1s, if you’ve listened to them)?



Boreaquis said:


> The first run of "high-end" TWEs definitely seem mediocre to me. I would certainly expect the $200-300 products of big companies to beat $40 Chinese stuff on features (battery life, waterproofing, good magnetic cases, BT5, etc),  which they don't seem to do at the moment.
> 
> Fingers crossed for the next generation of products, I guess.


It almost seems like the bigger players are using buyers as beta testers for their twes. Quality issues seem to be running rampant, half baked apps, bugs as features and constant firmware updates for those earbuds that can be updated suggest that there was a definite rush to get to the market first. If I’m spending ~$300 on a set of earbuds, I sure as hell would like for them to have a stable connection with each other and the source. I was really expecting the MTWs to take the lead here - they come from a decent house with a good track record in general (even though the Momentum name does not carry a high regard). On the other hand, Apple’s really outdone themselves with their first gen offering - they were one of the first ones to play with the true wireless form and they have provided rather decent quality of life features for a reasonable price. If the next version of the AirPods have better sq, I can live with their alien-probe look.


----------



## nc8000

howdy said:


> There is 2 different apps for the E8 and initially downloaded the wrong one. They should get rid of the other one. It has a lot of the same features but I don't think they update it anymore.



Yes they came out with a new unified app about a month ago but the app has absolutely no effect on the battery time on the buds.


----------



## controlmajortom

I bought the MTW today. Certainly the best true wireless SQ I've heard, but doesn't really say much. For a $300 dollar product, I am quite disappointed. These sound like 70-80 dollar wired pairs with quite a lack of refinement across the entire spectrum. Perhaps my expectations were too high.


----------



## Rickyearl

The $175 was too good to pass up - bought the Earin M-2 last night.  If they sound as good as folks here say, I’ll put the E8s up for sale here soon.  The form factor for both the IEMs and the case are just too nice, and the ability to effectively double battery life by using one at a time is a fantastic feature for when I have to listen to spoken word stuff for work.


----------



## Rickyearl

nc8000 said:


> Yes they came out with a new unified app about a month ago but the app has absolutely no effect on the battery time on the buds.



The old one (maroon icon) allowed you to open and close the “soundstage” and the new one doesn’t.  If you use both you can really mess them up, too.  Mine got stuck on wide open “soundstage” and I had to delete the new app to fix it.


----------



## Rickyearl (Jan 6, 2019)

controlmajortom said:


> I bought the MTW today. Certainly the best true wireless SQ I've heard, but doesn't really say much. For a $300 dollar product, I am quite disappointed. These sound like 70-80 dollar wired pairs with quite a lack of refinement across the entire spectrum. Perhaps my expectations were too high.



I’d say about $100 wired, but otherwise, yeah.   When people say “they sound as good as wired” they’re certainly not referring to high-end wired. For example, my Mh-40s blow them away, as do those weird Trinity Audio things with the dozens of filters that I bought on a whim.


----------



## joshnor713

controlmajortom said:


> I bought the MTW today. Certainly the best true wireless SQ I've heard, but doesn't really say much. For a $300 dollar product, I am quite disappointed. These sound like 70-80 dollar wired pairs with quite a lack of refinement across the entire spectrum. Perhaps my expectations were too high.



Exactly my experience (this is someone who has the IE 800 S too). Everyone saying that these are the best sounding TW earbuds are correct, but this isn't saying much in the grand scheme of things. Much is left to be desired across the board (detail and refinement, though clarity is pretty good). The MTW are supposedly using similar drivers to the IE 800, so my guess is that the bottleneck is the DAC. It's pretty amazing that, considering how small TW earbuds are, that they can fit a DAC at all. I can't imagine its competence reaching suitable levels like in today's portable DACs for a few years.


----------



## clerkpalmer

I think the general consensus on here from those who have tried both is that the MTW is not the best sounding TW.  That honor goes to the MW07. The MW07 truly sounds like a good wired headphone.


----------



## nc8000

I may be wrong or in a minority but for me the point of true wireless is not mainly about sq. Yes it’s gotta not sound like crap but I’m only gonna use them during travelling/walking and usually in more or less noisy environments so comfort, battery life, isolation, stable connection and the very convenience of no wires are far more important than sq to me


----------



## controlmajortom

clerkpalmer said:


> I think the general consensus on here from those who have tried both is that the MTW is not the best sounding TW.  That honor goes to the MW07. The MW07 truly sounds like a good wired headphone.



Maybe, but it's hard to trust reviews due to differing expectations, audio preferences, and what other products people have listened to in the past. I got these due to the numerous individual and website reviews claiming them to have the best SQ among TW earbuds, and I've tried quite a few. They aren't wrong, but I've realized that there's still a long way to go in terms of SQ for TW headphones. Unless the MW07's are significantly better than the MTWs on all fronts I think I will pass on those as well.


----------



## controlmajortom

nc8000 said:


> I may be wrong or in a minority but for me the point of true wireless is not mainly about sq. Yes it’s gotta not sound like crap but I’m only gonna use them during travelling/walking and usually in more or less noisy environments so comfort, battery life, isolation, stable connection and the very convenience of no wires are far more important than sq to me



No, I agree. The absolute convenience of TW earbuds are the reason I keep coming back, but I eventually end up dropping each of the ones I've tried after awhile due to unacceptable sound quality. I was hoping the MTWs would buck that trend, but I don't think they have.


----------



## jeffri

My best wireless setup is AT-PHA55BT connected to 64 Audio U12, but I keep coming back to CKR7TW just for the convenience. I actually prefer the CKR7TW to the Flares Pro with their wireless module, its replacing my Flares for the convenience pair.

Still, I can see how the current TWE still have too many issues, so I'll probably contend with this for now and won't spend more on other pairs until the next generation coming. Let's see if CES can change my mind though. 

Give it 2 or 3 years and we'll probably start seeing LDAC supported TWE coming. That will be exciting...


----------



## howdy

nc8000 said:


> Yes they came out with a new unified app about a month ago but the app has absolutely no effect on the battery time on the buds.


My battery life with the other app wouldn't even last a day (case and buds) and now I havn't charged it in 3 days and still has plenty of juice.


----------



## nc8000

howdy said:


> My battery life with the other app wouldn't even last a day (case and buds) and now I havn't charged it in 3 days and still has plenty of juice.



I used the original app for over a year and the new app for a month and have had absolutely no difference in battery life. Get a little over 4 hours use per charge and about another 2-3 charges from the case. The only thing the app does is program settings into the buds, it has no effect otherwise and is not used when actually playing


----------



## Tommy C

nc8000 said:


> I may be wrong or in a minority but for me the point of true wireless is not mainly about sq. Yes it’s gotta not sound like crap but I’m only gonna use them during travelling/walking and usually in more or less noisy environments so comfort, battery life, isolation, stable connection and the very convenience of no wires are far more important than sq to me



For connectivity, battery and ease of use you can’t go wrong with Jabra. 
I have the Jabra Elite Sport and they just work like a clock and sq is solid when out and about.


----------



## clerkpalmer

controlmajortom said:


> Unless the MW07's are significantly better than the MTWs on all fronts I think I will pass on those as well.



For sq, yes they are significantly better to my ears. MTW wins for battery life, I would say fit and finish are equal. The MW07 remains a severely compromised product due to the poor battery life.


----------



## god-bluff

Boreaquis said:


> The first run of "high-end" TWEs definitely seem mediocre to me. I would certainly expect the $200-300 products of big companies to beat $40 Chinese stuff on features (battery life, waterproofing, good magnetic cases, BT5, etc),  which they don't seem to do at the moment.
> 
> Fingers crossed for the next generation of products, I guess.


And sound quality?!?! Still quite important


----------



## SomeGuyDude

I take peoples' descriptions of "it sounds like wired that costs $X" with a grain of salt because I've noticed that most people have "perceived value" all over the goddamn map. To me, the MW07 sounds every bit as expensive as it is, the battery is all that holds it back. I've had a ton of IEMs up and down the price ladder and I'd rather listen to the MW07 than nearly anything I've owned save the Periodic Be.


----------



## Scrieorice

I recommend RHA trueconnect! Sound almost like Senn MTW, battery much better and almost is half priced.


----------



## clerkpalmer

Scrieorice said:


> I recommend RHA trueconnect! Sound almost like Senn MTW, battery much better and almost is half priced.



I agree with this. Fit is a little fussy but they do check a lot of boxes at 160.


----------



## chinmie

nc8000 said:


> I may be wrong or in a minority but for me the point of true wireless is not mainly about sq. Yes it’s gotta not sound like crap but I’m only gonna use them during travelling/walking and usually in more or less noisy environments so comfort, battery life, isolation, stable connection and the very convenience of no wires are far more important than sq to me



i also in the same school of thought like you. the whole point of TW to me is convenience. sound? as long as it doesn't hurt my ears and i can enjoy the music, then it's fine. i usually only listen to offline/online Spotify anyway when I'm using them. most of the TW i owned (except for the Pamu Scroll) fit the bills nicely, each with their own quirks.

i personally think that the current chifis like the Mifo and Sabbat are the best deals and most balanced package of performance, battery life, ease of use, etc, for the price. 

even if we take good care of them, these things won't last forever like some wired headphones..mainly because the battery life and also the current pace of improvements on the TW market.


----------



## kiwikozo

I've owned the RHA, MTW, Jabra and now the Earin M2. I would not purchase the RHA true connect over the M2. I didn't find them comfortable.

RHA also gave me connection issues, cut out randomly at the gym and the control buttons are not good as they cause discomfort when pressed. The case is lovely (unlike the nasty MTW one) but the lack of an app to deliver firmware updates is not good for the price - yet they still give you a 3-year warranty! 

M2 sounds superior to the RHA and the price is similar (currently). 

I love RHAs other products, I bet their second TW earphone will tick all the boxes.


----------



## clerkpalmer

kiwikozo said:


> I've owned the RHA, MTW, Jabra and now the Earin M2. I would not purchase the RHA true connect over the M2. I didn't find them comfortable.
> 
> RHA also gave me connection issues, cut out randomly at the gym and the control buttons are not good as they cause discomfort when pressed. The case is lovely (unlike the nasty MTW one) but the lack of an app to deliver firmware updates is not good for the price - yet they still give you a 3-year warranty!
> 
> ...



Strange. I have had zero connection issues with my true connect. If the M2 sounds better than that’s impressive because the RHA sounds excellent. Does the M2 get firmware updates?


----------



## chinmie

clerkpalmer said:


> Strange. I have had zero connection issues with my true connect. If the M2 sounds better than that’s impressive because the RHA sounds excellent. Does the M2 get firmware updates?



yes, the Earin can be updated


----------



## kiwikozo

clerkpalmer said:


> Strange. I have had zero connection issues with my true connect. If the M2 sounds better than that’s impressive because the RHA sounds excellent. Does the M2 get firmware updates?



I believe they had a poor early QC, and some issues could've been fixed with a firmware update. If only RHA incorporated a basic app!


----------



## SomeGuyDude

nc8000 said:


> I may be wrong or in a minority but for me the point of true wireless is not mainly about sq. Yes it’s gotta not sound like crap but I’m only gonna use them during travelling/walking and usually in more or less noisy environments so comfort, battery life, isolation, stable connection and the very convenience of no wires are far more important than sq to me



Possibly, but to me it's more like "it has to sound good enough to pull me away from the wires." Obviously stability and battery life and whatnot matter, but this is head-fi. A ton of us here put SQ at a premium. I think owners of the MW07 will vouch that we'll sacrifice some battery life if it means better SQ, that's why I said goodbye to the e8 which sounded fantastic in their own right and lasted twice as long but I was missing the audio. 

For some people, the first thing is just the benefits of bluetooth or being true wireless itself and they'll hang around for the sound to get better. I'm the opposite. I don't care how convenient and comfy they are if the sound isn't making me happy. Someone could make a TWE with 20 hour battery life that's so compact they're almost invisible and has a 100m rock-solid range but if the sound is bland I'm not gonna buy them unless they're dumb cheap. The convenience means jack crap to me unless the audio is good enough, and where "good enough" lies is up to everyone to decide on their own. That's why you've got people on here with the $30-50 crowdfunders and people holding out for the Senn/M&D/AT flagships. Big ol' spectrum.

My first criterion for any headphone is "how do I feel listening to music through this?" If I can sink into the sound and enjoy it, then we can go from there. Doesn't have to be expensive, after all I sold off my Audeze/Questyle rig and the VModa is my primary can now, but it has to give me sound I love. If it doesn't, none of the other conveniences matter.


----------



## hifi80sman (Jan 7, 2019)

varyV said:


> They definitely seem like an interesting budget choice. How did you find the build quality on them? I know the case looks a little flimsy, but can’t tell a lot about the iems from the reviews. I’m not the biggest fan of the AirPod look myself, but these don’t look too revolting to me. Sound wise, can these be compared to the E8s (or the H1s, if you’ve listened to them)?


The case is not bad.  It's plastic, but it feels like it's well made.  They sound legitimately good and you're not crazy to compare to the E8, however, the E8 has an app for EQ, so I can get them to sound "better", or at least more to my taste.  The Treblab X5 probably edge the E8 in terms of default, out-of-the-box sound.  Haven't listened to the H1s.

I liked the Treblab X5 and would have kept them if I didn't feel goofy wearing them.  For a budget pair, they are really good sound-wise.


----------



## hifi80sman

SomeGuyDude said:


> I take peoples' descriptions of "it sounds like wired that costs $X" with a grain of salt because I've noticed that most people have "perceived value" all over the goddamn map. To me, the MW07 sounds every bit as expensive as it is, the battery is all that holds it back. I've had a ton of IEMs up and down the price ladder and I'd rather listen to the MW07 than nearly anything I've owned save the Periodic Be.


I agree.  Let's be honest, if you're listening wirelessly, you're probably streaming already compressed music from Spotify, Apple, or Google, which still sounds good.  Expectations shouldn't be set to compete against a wired setup with a quality chain.  I can still enjoy nuances of the music via Apple Music (AAC) and the MW07 (AAC).  Expectation bias affects one's perception, especially when it concerns things more subjective in nature.

Perceived value/brand value is a real thing, which is exactly why Bose does not allow for major discounts.  They control the sales price and how much they allow retailers to discount.


----------



## BigZ12 (Jan 7, 2019)

Fook mi, I took my fully charged MTWs out today and when I put them in the (also fully charged) case they didn't turn off. They were at about 75% after use, but they don't charge either.
Any way I can force them to turn off and charge, or do I need the USB-C cable and connect them to get them turning off/charging?


----------



## Burakk

BigZ12 said:


> Fook mi, I took my fully charged MTWs out today and when I put them in the (also fully charged) case it didn't turn off. It doesn't charge either.
> Any way I can force them to turn off and charge, or do I need the USB-C cable and connect them to get them turning off/charging?


I have exactly the same problem. Hopefully, It isn't a hardware issue.


----------



## BobJS

Tidal + phone + MW07 = isolation + bliss!

Someone above was talking about RHA Trueconnect, so I went looking.  That was a no-go after seeing the Apple earpod-like alien thingies.


----------



## BobJS

I also just checked out the Earin M-2.  Someone talk me out of it.   Quickly.

Can anyone address the sound of these vs MW07?


----------



## nc8000

BobJS said:


> I also just checked out the Earin M-2.  Someone talk me out of it.   Quickly.
> 
> Can anyone address the sound of these vs MW07?



My guess is that the MW07 probably has the better sound


----------



## korefuji

nc8000 said:


> My guess is that the MW07 probably has the better sound



True, but for double the premium. I'd say if you can splash the cash, then go with MW07, I don't think you can go wrong with the Earin's at 30% off based on the recent reviews of i, and close to half the cost of the MW07


----------



## BobJS

Thanks guys, I'm talked out of it.  I'll wait for Bluetooth 6.0  <Couldn't find true wireless emoji!>


----------



## turbobb (Jan 7, 2019)

JBL with four new TWEs at CES:
https://www.engadget.com/amp/2019/01/07/jbl-true-wireless-earbuds-ces-2019

EDIT: The UA Flash model will be available on both JBL's and Under Armour's site starting tomorrow.


----------



## hifi80sman (Jan 7, 2019)

Update on the Comexion TWE:

A few other notes after spending more time with them:

- Battery life is as advertised.  I listen at around 40% to no more than 50% volume.
- Isolation is great.
- Responds very well to EQ.  Listening on my Galaxy s8, I use the EQ settings below.  Of course, your tastes may differ, but point being, it can be EQd quite nicely.

Really liking these.


----------



## alchemical

Burakk said:


> I have exactly the same problem. Hopefully, It isn't a hardware issue.


Same kinds of issues here. Judging by the amount of similar comments I’ve read online, I’m really considering getting a refund rather than replacement. Lots of people I’ve seen have had replacement sets exhibit similar behaviour.


----------



## clerkpalmer

The UA Flash look interesting.  The UA over ears are pretty damn good.  If they are of similar quality and sound signature, could be a winner.


----------



## korefuji

Only thing about the JBL is no info on the usage without the case, I'm assuming it's to sugarcoat the lack of long play time with the buds alone, at about 3 hours I would guess


----------



## SomeGuyDude

korefuji said:


> Only thing about the JBL is no info on the usage without the case, I'm assuming it's to sugarcoat the lack of long play time with the buds alone, at about 3 hours I would guess



Did I misread? The UA model at least says 5 hours of play time.


----------



## korefuji

SomeGuyDude said:


> Did I misread? The UA model at least says 5 hours of play time.


I probably missed that bit, thanks for clarifying and correcting me.


----------



## jant71 (Jan 7, 2019)

korefuji said:


> Only thing about the JBL is no info on the usage without the case, I'm assuming it's to sugarcoat the lack of long play time with the buds alone, at about 3 hours I would guess



JBL total play time is 30 hours including the case. What I read(needs to be confirmed of course) they said the case adds 20 hours so they would be 10 hours. Digital Trends also said it..."one of which offers a massive 10 hours of playback per charge"

I don't need it but since many on here are staunch about having it they have both talk through and ambient aware. One reduces things other than vocals for better calls/communication and the other is for letting ambient sound in to hear your surroundings.

Actually seems to be the opposite with the buds supposedly having good battery but the case lacking. Many cases now charge phones and have double digit recharges with 70 plus hours battery life. Toshiba models gives 18 recharges from the case so 74 hours total. 10 plus 5 recharges for 60 would have been nice.

Of course for $150 and having all the features and battery life, the issues are gonna be the codec support and the SQ.


----------



## korefuji

I don't like the jabra style case personally. But if ti can run 10 hours on  a single charge, that is absolutely insane, and we're probably in for spoiling for 2019 with TWEs


----------



## Rickyearl

alchemical said:


> Same kinds of issues here. Judging by the amount of similar comments I’ve read online, I’m really considering getting a refund rather than replacement. Lots of people I’ve seen have had replacement sets exhibit similar behaviour.



There are quite a few similar posts on this board.  I have found that I can make the MTW not "notice" they are in the case if I remove one and lay it on the table, leave the other in, then put the first one in the case after a few minutes.  When I put the second one in the case, it just keeps on playing.  

My Soundcore Liberty Lites do the exact same thing the exact same way.  It is also interesting that they both have the exact same voice - inflection, everything - for the voice prompts ("pairing," "connected", etc.).  Don't know what it means.  Otherwise they have almost nothing in common.


----------



## korefuji

Rickyearl said:


> There are quite a few similar posts on this board.  I have found that I can make the MTW not "notice" they are in the case if I remove one and lay it on the table, leave the other in, then put the first one in the case after a few minutes.  When I put the second one in the case, it just keeps on playing.
> 
> My Soundcore Liberty Lites do the exact same thing the exact same way.  It is also interesting that they both have the exact same voice - inflection, everything - for the voice prompts ("pairing," "connected", etc.).  Don't know what it means.  Otherwise they have almost nothing in common.



Definitely doesnt' show confidence when TWEs exhibit that behaviour, especially ones in the sub 300 range


----------



## Rickyearl

jant71 said:


> JBL total play time is 30 hours including the case. What I read(needs to be confirmed of course) they said the case adds 20 hours so they would be 10 hours. Digital Trends also said it..."one of which offers a massive 10 hours of playback per charge"
> 
> I don't need it but since many on here are staunch about having it they have both talk through and ambient aware. One reduces things other than vocals for better calls/communication and the other is for letting ambient sound in to hear your surroundings.
> 
> ...



Which JBL has the massive play time? I don't like that you have to choose between features and there's apparently no "deluxe" model that includes everything.  I think having 4 different models on a "new" product type like this is dumb.  

Also despise the idea of having "Under Armour" IEMs just like I won't wear a Nike watch or use an Adidas phone.

So for me there was very little to like about the JBL announcement.


----------



## korefuji

I think they're trying to target ever market, by keeping the price down and functionality divided. JBL aren't a  premium brand, and so credit where due, I think they're doing it right, rather than an extravagant all in one, that will be pricey and no one will buy


----------



## Boreaquis

Yeah, the JBL Reflect Flow with 10h battery life, ipx7 and talkthrough/ambient aware should be something to keep an eye on, imo.


----------



## Rickyearl

korefuji said:


> Definitely doesnt' show confidence when TWEs exhibit that behaviour, especially ones in the sub 300 range



Yeah, other than SQ (which is great IMO - best I've heard though my experience with MW07 was just a brief audition), the MTWs come across rushed.  The case does weird stuff and the "infrastructure" part of the firmware is a little wonky.  

Of course, i was reminded that the very first E8s were really half-finished too.  They managed to fix quite a lot in that firmware barrage in early 2018 - battery issues, SQ issues, connectivity and dropouts all improved significantly.


----------



## Spamateur

I'm getting damn tired of the MTW's weird battery behavior. The last three times I've pulled them out of the case, the left earbud is around 93% battery life while the right is at 100%. They've sat untouched in their case for the last 20+ hours. Case without the earbuds is giving me a green light, so it's fully charged. There's no effing reason why they should be less than 100%. There's some sort of battery drain when the MTW are being unused and in their case. I always put them back in at the same time, too. Sigh.

I'm on the verge of returning these. I think they sound good (by TW standards) but I can't abide not being able to count on them being at full battery when I need to use them for a few hours at a stretch.


----------



## jant71 (Jan 7, 2019)

Rickyearl said:


> Which JBL has the massive play time? I don't like that you have to choose between features and there's apparently no "deluxe" model that includes everything.  I think having 4 different models on a "new" product type like this is dumb.
> 
> Also despise the idea of having "Under Armour" IEMs just like I won't wear a Nike watch or use an Adidas phone.
> 
> So for me there was very little to like about the JBL announcement.



Well, the top one includes everything and has the 10 hour battery life. Has both the features for supposedly better call hearing and ambient, IPX7, and come in four color choices...





They of course need to give the best sound quality being the top model and do voice assistant and full control not leaving out volume or track control like other $150 models do. Still need more info but they seem to have everything you might want so far. The others are cheaper and have less features and are not much at all to get exited about. A UA model with the same features and half the battery for $20 more is just to be exposed to the athletic crowd who are into/impressed with UA branding. Most don't do research and searching like us on Head-fi so we look at it like no one would buy that but they will. Plenty will not even know the JBL model exists and gets double the battery life for cheaper. Some potential there with the Flow but SQ/mic/call quality, connection, and stability need to be proven. Just some on paper potential. Big stuff is missing like the BT specs and the how the controls work.


----------



## alchemical

Spamateur said:


> I'm getting damn tired of the MTW's weird battery behavior. The last three times I've pulled them out of the case, the left earbud is around 93% battery life while the right is at 100%. They've sat untouched in their case for the last 20+ hours. Case without the earbuds is giving me a green light, so it's fully charged. There's no effing reason why they should be less than 100%. There's some sort of battery drain when the MTW are being unused and in their case. I always put them back in at the same time, too. Sigh.
> 
> I'm on the verge of returning these. I think they sound good (by TW standards) but I can't abide not being able to count on them being at full battery when I need to use them for a few hours at a stretch.


This is exactly my issue. Unless it’s following a charge by the USB cable, the left bud won’t charge to 100%, it’s always mid-90s, although the LED is green. I can take them out of the case, not even playing music, put them straight back in and they’ll start charging again (even though everything should be fully charged). Then next time I check the case a few hours later it’s dead, as if it’s been constantly trying to charge. I’m done with them I think, which is a shame, as I like the sound. I talked to a Sennheiser rep but he didn’t acknowledge this was a common issue, even though it clearly is. All he said was that the case needs charge to power down the headphones, which I knew to be the case and isn’t the problem here.


----------



## hifi80sman

Rickyearl said:


> There are quite a few similar posts on this board.  I have found that I can make the MTW not "notice" they are in the case if I remove one and lay it on the table, leave the other in, then put the first one in the case after a few minutes.  When I put the second one in the case, it just keeps on playing.
> 
> My Soundcore Liberty Lites do the exact same thing the exact same way.  It is also interesting that they both have the exact same voice - inflection, everything - for the voice prompts ("pairing," "connected", etc.).  Don't know what it means.  Otherwise they have almost nothing in common.


If they are all Qualcomm chips, I'm sure there is an option to create or change voice prompts.  This probably just means the are coming out of the same factory that uses default prompts for English, Spanish, etc.  As you indicated, there are no other similarities, so I wouldn't be alarmed.


----------



## BigZ12

alchemical said:


> This is exactly my issue. Unless it’s following a charge by the USB cable, the left bud won’t charge to 100%, it’s always mid-90s, although the LED is green. I can take them out of the case, not even playing music, put them straight back in and they’ll start charging again (even though everything should be fully charged). Then next time I check the case a few hours later it’s dead, as if it’s been constantly trying to charge. I’m done with them I think, which is a shame, as I like the sound. I talked to a Sennheiser rep but he didn’t acknowledge this was a common issue, even though it clearly is. All he said was that the case needs charge to power down the headphones, which I knew to be the case and isn’t the problem here.


I just experienced this. 
As my latest reply said, I took my MTWs out today, played some music, put them in the case at about 70% but they wouldn't turn off or charge. 
Came home, put the USB-C cable in, and they immediately turned off and the case and headset started charging. 
Took them out just now, and the left bud was at 90% (but in a few seconds it was down to 87%) as the right bud was at 100%.
Put them in the case without the USB-C cable now, and it's charging again. Will see in a few minutes if the left has charged some %.


----------



## hifi80sman

Spamateur said:


> I'm getting damn tired of the MTW's weird battery behavior. The last three times I've pulled them out of the case, the left earbud is around 93% battery life while the right is at 100%. They've sat untouched in their case for the last 20+ hours. Case without the earbuds is giving me a green light, so it's fully charged. There's no effing reason why they should be less than 100%. There's some sort of battery drain when the MTW are being unused and in their case. I always put them back in at the same time, too. Sigh.
> 
> I'm on the verge of returning these. I think they sound good (by TW standards) but I can't abide not being able to count on them being at full battery when I need to use them for a few hours at a stretch.


I actually broke down and ordered the MTW.  Per tracking, I should have them tomorrow.  I ordered from Best Buy, as I couldn't get a straight answer if Sennheiser pays for return shipping.  I'll report any issues I see, in addition to the sound.


----------



## Rickyearl

jant71 said:


> Well, the top one includes everything and has the 10 hour battery life. Has both the features for supposedly better call hearing and ambient, IPX7, and come in four color choices...
> 
> 
> They of course need to give the best sound quality being the top model and do voice assistant and full control not leaving out volume or track control like other $150 models do. Still need more info but they seem to have everything you might want so far. The others are cheaper and have less features and are not much at all to get exited about. A UA model with the same features and half the battery for $20 more is just to be exposed to the athletic crowd who are into/impressed with UA branding. Most don't do research and searching like us on Head-fi so we look at it like no one would buy that but they will. Plenty will not even know the JBL model exists and gets double the battery life for cheaper. Some potential there with the Flow but SQ/mic/call quality, connection, and stability need to be proven. Just some on paper potential. Big stuff is missing like the BT specs and the how the controls work.



I though the top one wasn't IPX7.  Same as the AudioTechnica thing - I don't like that compromise.


----------



## BigZ12

BigZ12 said:


> I just experienced this.
> As my latest reply said, I took my MTWs out today, played some music, put them in the case at about 70% but they wouldn't turn off or charge.
> Came home, put the USB-C cable in, and they immediately turned off and the case and headset started charging.
> Took them out just now, and the left bud was at 90% (but in a few seconds it was down to 87%) as the right bud was at 100%.
> Put them in the case without the USB-C cable now, and it's charging again. Will see in a few minutes if the left has charged some %.


5 mins later, and both are 100%... 
I will play some music now, and try putting them in the case again. Hope it will turn off, and charge again. If not, Sennheiser will hear it in the morning. (guess I'll fire off an email anyway)
Crackling, SBC noise on left speaker, call quality (digitized noise) and now this.... what kind of product department ship an untested? high priced product like this 
Call quality and the crackling noise has been fixed as earlier mentioned in a firmware with release this month, but they have to fix this turning off/charging fault very quick too.


----------



## Rickyearl

BigZ12 said:


> I just experienced this.
> As my latest reply said, I took my MTWs out today, played some music, put them in the case at about 70% but they wouldn't turn off or charge.
> Came home, put the USB-C cable in, and they immediately turned off and the case and headset started charging.
> Took them out just now, and the left bud was at 90% (but in a few seconds it was down to 87%) as the right bud was at 100%.
> Put them in the case without the USB-C cable now, and it's charging again. Will see in a few minutes if the left has charged some %.



Yep.  https://www.head-fi.org/threads/goi...re-we-there-yet.861024/page-209#post-14665347


----------



## Spamateur

alchemical said:


> This is exactly my issue. Unless it’s following a charge by the USB cable, the left bud won’t charge to 100%, it’s always mid-90s, although the LED is green. I can take them out of the case, not even playing music, put them straight back in and they’ll start charging again (even though everything should be fully charged). Then next time I check the case a few hours later it’s dead, as if it’s been constantly trying to charge. I’m done with them I think, which is a shame, as I like the sound. I talked to a Sennheiser rep but he didn’t acknowledge this was a common issue, even though it clearly is. All he said was that the case needs charge to power down the headphones, which I knew to be the case and isn’t the problem here.



Argh, yeah Sennheiser's support, especially if they're just directing you to Digital River, which runs the Sennheiser direct store.

I have a feeling this is a software issue, not a hardware one. I'm guessing the left bud is constantly polling the right bud since the right is the master. It seems pointless to do this when it's charging in the case, but who knows.


----------



## Spamateur

hifi80sman said:


> I actually broke down and ordered the MTW.  Per tracking, I should have them tomorrow.  I ordered from Best Buy, as I couldn't get a straight answer if Sennheiser pays for return shipping.  I'll report any issues I see, in addition to the sound.



Let us know how you like them. I like the sound but I'm getting less than 3.5 hours on AptX using a Google Pixel 3 XL as the source device. I'm tempted to suck it up but the stupid battery charging issues are nagging at me.


----------



## Spamateur

BigZ12 said:


> Call quality and the crackling noise has been fixed as earlier mentioned in a firmware with release this month



Did you hear that directly from Sennheiser?


----------



## clerkpalmer

I think I may take a flyer on the under armor versions. The UA train is really good and I’m hoping they can replicate that here.


----------



## nc8000

Spamateur said:


> Did you hear that directly from Sennheiser?



It was reportede several pages back in this thread. There should be 2 fw versions coming out in January fixing several problems


----------



## BigZ12

Spamateur said:


> Did you hear that directly from Sennheiser?


Yes. 
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/goi...re-we-there-yet.861024/page-247#post-14697148


----------



## Spamateur

nc8000 said:


> It was reportede several pages back in this thread. There should be 2 fw versions coming out in January fixing several problems





BigZ12 said:


> Yes.
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/goi...re-we-there-yet.861024/page-247#post-14697148



Thanks to you both. I read this thread fairly religiously so I must have missed that in my excitement when the CKR7TW arrived.


----------



## jant71

clerkpalmer said:


> I think I may take a flyer on the under armor versions. The UA train is really good and I’m hoping they can replicate that here.



Sure you can wait till they come out. Almost a whole day till Jan 8th.  Then you can test them out so we can see how the Flow will be as well.


----------



## firewatersun (Jan 7, 2019)

At least in the UK, Sennheiser paid for my MTW return - I did however have to go directly to Sennheiser customer support.

The shop support (which is Digital River) were TERRIBLE. They essentially replied once saying "oh hey we don't deal with technical issues, contact Support", even though I specifically said I wanted to return the item. I replied saying I had clearly requested a return and they didn't even reply to that.

I had to contact Sennheiser Customer Service directly, and got a really helpful agent who expedited the return request. However I'm still waiting on a refund...so if you can buy from Amazon/some other store with a good return policy, I'd go there tbh, no need for this headache.

As a lengthy aside, finally got my MW07s - unfortunately it's been far too long since I returned the MTWs, so my comparison by memory is probably really fuzzy. One thing I do remember is that I got the MTWs on the same day as the Enacfire E18 (chifi, but decent) and remember wondering if the price difference was really worth that much. By contrast, swapping from the same E18s to the MW07 was like a little shock at how much better they were.

I may just prefer the MW07 sound signature though. I also agree with previous posts - their SQ is not really going to replace a good pair of in-ears of even half the price, but the convenience really really makes up for it. Lack of microphonics and cable snag is huge for me. Still testing battery life, but I think I listen at a relatively low 50-60%ish volume, so might get the full 3.5.

Usability is much better than the MTWs, at least so far. No issues with them continuing to play when placed in the case, case is just a tiny bit slimmer which actually helps alot, and they pair with both a PC and Android phone, reconnect with both instantly and swap between both seamlessly. This was annoying with the MTWs, you essentially have to repair each time (Go into pairing mode, then connect in the device settings)

They are COMFORTABLE, better than any other in-ear I've used, except maybe the Bose StayHear+ tips, which aren't really in-ear and have terrible isolation. They definitely sit much, much better than the MTW. Occasionally I would feel like the MTW might fall out (they wouldn't, but just had a weighty feeling as if the center of gravity wanted to get out of my conchla) The MTW also stick out quite a bit (was called a Cyberman more than once, for any Doctor Who fans out there...) and would often get stuck and fall out when removing sweaters/jackets. MW07s do not have that issue, they sit much more flush, and the wingtips help keep them very secure.

MW07s are also TINY. I didn't quite appreciate how small they are till I opened the case - they're much smaller in person than review pictures suggest. Also much smaller than the MTWs, and at least for me, are much less fatiguing to wear for longer periods.

Only gripes while I'm still in this honeymoon period are that the case is so beautiful that I have to use the soft case to carry it around in, and I keep looking at all the other colour options wondering if I love the one I have or would be happier with another one....They are really gorgeously designed IMO. Additionally, would really like a magnetic seating system - they haven't failed to charge, but it just doesn't feel as secure as a lock-in or magnetic system. The lid does push them down consistently, and is itself magnetic, and it may have been to accomodate the acoustic chamber.


----------



## korefuji

I returned my Senn's in December, and got a refund last week, so I assume you should be getting yours soon. Mine shows as lost in transit though, or not delivered, but Senn still refunded me in good faith. Which was nice.


----------



## albau (Jan 7, 2019)

firewatersun said:


> I may just prefer the MW07 sound signature though. I also agree with previous posts - their SQ is not really going to replace a good pair of in-ears of even half the price


I'd venture to say that in sq MW07 from my experience could well match decent $150 *single dynamic driver* wired IEMs. But of course not hybrids or multi-BA ones. Though on some tracks they come surprisingly close to my wired, admittedly old, Westone4 with their 4 BA drivers.



firewatersun said:


> Only gripes while I'm still in this honeymoon period are that the case is so beautiful that I have to use the soft case to carry it around in


Lol, I guess my honeymoon already lasts since mid November. At least I also always keep charge case in a supplied soft pouch as though it's some jewel box. My wife calls it "girly" (both the case and my behavior).

On another note so far I should praise M&D support. They saw that I bitched about battery life on their FB page and almost immediately somebody messaged me asking to send an email to their support. I did it over weekend and, lo and behold, today early morning Monday they responded they'll be happy to exchange my pair, postage paid both ways and all. I have black discounted version from Best Buy. Will see.


----------



## firewatersun

albau said:


> I'd venture to say that in sq MW07 from my experience could well match decent $150 *single dynamic driver* wired IEMs. But of course not hybrids or multi-BA ones. Though on some tracks they come surprisingly close to my wired, admittedly old, Westone4 with their 4 BA drivers.
> 
> Lol, I guess my honeymoon already lasts since mid November. At least I also always keep charge case in a supplied soft pouch as though it's some jewel box. My wife calls it "girly" (both the case and my behavior).
> 
> On another note so far I should praise M&D support. They saw that I bitched about battery life on their FB page and almost immediately somebody messaged me asking to send an email to their support. I did it over weekend and, lo and behold, today early morning Monday they responded they'll be happy to exchange my pair, postage paid both ways and all. I have black discounted version from Best Buy. Will see.



Oh that's amazing - I seem to be getting only just under 3 as well, I wonder if an email might work. I'd even pay for an upgraded battery, is how much I love these things


----------



## RunsWithScissors

Comply foam tips just made available for sale for Jabra Elite 65t and Active 65t

https://www.complyfoam.com/products/jabra-elite65t

Looks like they are only offering one size which is a bit disappointing as I beta tested Small, Medium and Large last summer but it looks like they won’t be offering all sizes. 

If anyone tries them out, please post your experience.


----------



## howdy

hifi80sman said:


> I actually broke down and ordered the MTW.  Per tracking, I should have them tomorrow.  I ordered from Best Buy, as I couldn't get a straight answer if Sennheiser pays for return shipping.  I'll report any issues I see, in addition to the sound.


Good to see you got them! I still absoultley love mine. Great sound, they always connect the second I pull them out one tap and Tidal is playing. I noticed a few percentage points differance between left and right but it doesn't bother me as I just put em in and enjoy the tunes.
I can't however stop thinking of the MW07.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

Rickyearl said:


> Which JBL has the massive play time? I don't like that you have to choose between features and there's apparently no "deluxe" model that includes everything.  I think having 4 different models on a "new" product type like this is dumb.
> 
> Also despise the idea of having "Under Armour" IEMs just like I won't wear a Nike watch or use an Adidas phone.
> 
> So for me there was very little to like about the JBL announcement.



The UA products are gym specific. I have their on-ears (the Project Rock specifically, so that's double branding) and they're absolutely gangbusters for that purpose. Wouldn't get 'em for casual listening, but I think it's pretty dumb to get all hot and bothered about a product's branding if it's otherwise great. 

I'm not terribly enthused about JBL either but, hey, we'll see.


----------



## Amedm96

is there is any post like this for normal bluetooth earphones


----------



## SomeGuyDude

firewatersun said:


> I may just prefer the MW07 sound signature though. I also agree with previous posts - their SQ is not really going to replace a good pair of in-ears of even half the price,



Massively disagree. I have my MW07 with a few IEMs in the $200-300 range (1more Quad, Mee P1, iBasso IT03) and prefer the MW07 rather significantly.


----------



## korefuji

SomeGuyDude said:


> Massively disagree. I have my MW07 with a few IEMs in the $200-300 range (1more Quad, Mee P1, iBasso IT03) and prefer the MW07 rather significantly.


+1 i love the mw07, they sound damn good, ok not wired amazing, but still damn good for what they are. Convenience and sq is good, battery life is meh, but it's early days for TWEs really, they're still immature relatively.

I get my earin m2's on thursday, fingers crossed.


----------



## hifi80sman

korefuji said:


> I returned my Senn's in December, and got a refund last week, so I assume you should be getting yours soon. Mine shows as lost in transit though, or not delivered, but Senn still refunded me in good faith. Which was nice.


Oh, man, glad I didn't purchase it from them!  I knew it was a little iffy when I couldn't find out if they paid return shipping and just kept reiterating "30 day money back guarantee".  Does that mean some money or all my effing money?!


----------



## firewatersun (Jan 7, 2019)

Well, I found out I was on SBC in Bluetooth settings for some reason, and after switching to aptX, they really do sound even better (maybe placebo but it seems significant!)

So yeah, I take back my previous statement about SQ to cost ratio. That said, I'm amazed they sounded so good on SBC! Instrument separation (or whateverthe proper term is) is awesome...

One thing has happened - there is the usual left ear hiss of most NFMI headphones I've tried (MTW was actually one of the better ones in this area - the Headphone by Bragi were terrible for it) but if I'm pausing music/video, there is a faint, high-pitched cyclical sound in the right ear only.

It's like a small squeaky wheel, very very faint, and it cycles on a pattern of 4ish pulses. It seems mechanical, like it's the connection pulse between right and left or something.

It stops after the 4 pulses though, and won't recur until the next time I pause music.

Anyone know what that is?

[EDIT] Happens when skipping songs too, whether in an app or using the earphone controls. Really not a dealbreaker, but curious


----------



## Luchyres

SomeGuyDude said:


> Massively disagree. I have my MW07 with a few IEMs in the $200-300 range (1more Quad, Mee P1, iBasso IT03) and prefer the MW07 rather significantly.



Very, very interesting to me. I have the IT01 as a budget bang'around set, but it seems like you and I eye a lot of the same IEMs - which of the three you listed do you like best and why  and which would you choose for bass quality (if nothing else mattered). 

On that note - have you heard the Earin M-2 post-update and what were your opinions?


----------



## webvan

RunsWithScissors said:


> Comply foam tips just made available for sale for Jabra Elite 65t and Active 65t
> 
> https://www.complyfoam.com/products/jabra-elite65t
> 
> ...



Thanks for the heads up, too bad indeed about the single size. The original True Wireless Comply were way too small for me with the Jabra Sport Elite and apparently the True Grip aren't any better for many people.


----------



## hifi80sman

howdy said:


> Good to see you got them! I still absoultley love mine. Great sound, they always connect the second I pull them out one tap and Tidal is playing. I noticed a few percentage points differance between left and right but it doesn't bother me as I just put em in and enjoy the tunes.
> I can't however stop thinking of the MW07.


I just had to know for myself if they are something I'd want to keep (MTW).  I mean, I can keep those and the MW07, so it's not really either/or, but personally, I'd have to be able to justify a lifestyle niche for the MTW.  If battery life is good, they sound good, even if they're not better than the MW07, and I can use them effectively for calls, they may be a good daily driver.

The transparency on the MW07 is just fantastic.  Those 10 mm beryllium drivers literally rock my socks off.  Literally.


----------



## howdy

hifi80sman said:


> I just had to know for myself if they are something I'd want to keep (MTW).  I mean, I can keep those and the MW07, so it's not really either/or, but personally, I'd have to be able to justify a lifestyle niche for the MTW.  If battery life is good, they sound good, even if they're not better than the MW07, and I can use them effectively for calls, they may be a good daily driver.
> 
> The transparency on the MW07 is just fantastic.  Those 10 mm beryllium drivers literally rock my socks off.  Literally.


I really enjoyed MW07 when I had them. Just weird, at first they sealed fine in both ears and then one day, no matter what I tried(LOTS of different tips) I could not get my right ear to seal anymore.
I hoping they come put with another, newer, better one. I would give that a go.
Being that I have 6 wireless ear bud/headphones, I really don't "need" anymore.


----------



## SomeGuyDude (Jan 8, 2019)

Luchyres said:


> Very, very interesting to me. I have the IT01 as a budget bang'around set, but it seems like you and I eye a lot of the same IEMs - which of the three you listed do you like best and why  and which would you choose for bass quality (if nothing else mattered).
> 
> On that note - have you heard the Earin M-2 post-update and what were your opinions?



Sheeooo... that's a tough one. Probably the 1More Quads. Of the three of those, the Quads turned into my favorite. They're too bassy for some but it's one of those things where once you kinda get your brain adjusted to the sig they're marvelous.

Haven't heard the M2, sadly. I admit I stick with Best Buy items just because I have a stupid amount of points there and I like buying at physical stores for returns lol


----------



## clerkpalmer

Hesitating on under armor. Nothing about codec support. Customer service has no clue. SBC only at 170 is a non starter.


----------



## Luchyres

SomeGuyDude said:


> Sheeooo... that's a tough one. Probably the 1More Quads. Of the three of those, the Quads turned into my favorite. They're too bassy for some but it's one of those things where once you kinda get your brain adjusted to the sig they're marvelous.
> 
> Haven't heard the M2, sadly. I admit I stick with Best Buy items just because I have a stupid amount of points there and I like buying at physical stores for returns lol


Thanks! Final question - what IEM would you buy for under $1K?

I just wish the 1more Quad had MMCX connectors, but I really appreciate your insights! I decided to buy the Earin M-2 in white and then boom, the sale ended. So, now I'm considering picking up the black ones on eBay, but only if I can get it for a price where I'm ok with no returns. 

Earin Support said they expect the black to be back in stock in late February or March, and he wisely refused to let me know anything about an M-3. "Work on the next product is ongoing. I just can not say when we will release any information for that product though."


----------



## clerkpalmer

Luchyres said:


> Thanks! Final question - what IEM would you buy for under $1K?
> 
> I just wish the 1more Quad had MMCX connectors, but I really appreciate your insights! I decided to buy the Earin M-2 in white and then boom, the sale ended. So, now I'm considering picking up the black ones on eBay, but only if I can get it for a price where I'm ok with no returns.
> 
> Earin Support said they expect the black to be back in stock in late February or March, and he wisely refused to let me know anything about an M-3. "Work on the next product is ongoing. I just can not say when we will release any information for that product though."



Given than the M2 is basically 2 years old already, the M3 ought not to be too far away. Earin completely blew the release for the M2 and couldn’t get it out the door.  Missed opportunity particularly is the sq is as good as people here say.


----------



## nc8000

clerkpalmer said:


> Given than the M2 is basically 2 years old already, the M3 ought not to be too far away. Earin completely blew the release for the M2 and couldn’t get it out the door.  Missed opportunity particularly is the sq is as good as people here say.



As far as I’m aware the M2 was only released last summer so only about 6 months old. The M1 was released late in 2015


----------



## clerkpalmer

nc8000 said:


> As far as I’m aware the M2 was only released last summer so only about 6 months old. The M1 was released late in 2015


after more than a year long delay.


----------



## clerkpalmer

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cn...earin-m-2-earbuds-werent-vaporware-after-all/


----------



## nc8000

clerkpalmer said:


> after more than a year long delay.



Yes but still only 6 months old, I doubt that they had a finished product 1 1/2 years ago and then waited 1 year before releasing it


----------



## clerkpalmer

nc8000 said:


> Yes but still only 6 months old, I doubt that they had a finished product 1 1/2 years ago and then waited 1 year before releasing it



My only point is M2 was a botched release and they are already based on dates tech. Doesn’t make them bad but they clearly should be ready for a new model. They got released after they were acquired. I believe they were released oversees much earlier than the US. Nothing wrong with buying them.


----------



## Dellsson

I have followed this thread for a long time and I have to say that all the information and thoughts that u guys bring to the table is outstanding. 

I have rocked my Phonaks Audeo iems for years and the only wireless I have tried before is the Jabra elite active 65t that I returned same day.

Today I got my MW07 and I have to say that for what it is, it's really good! I love them already and they seem so flawless. Pairing and connectivity is fluid and the sound is perfect! A little bassier than I'm used to but that's a good thing.

Finally I can get rid of my wired phonaks!


----------



## korefuji

Good choice, I would put the M&D above the Senn's in this category, for now, until more TWEs come out. I sold my Jabras as they left a lot to be desired. My Earins will arrive in two days, I hope they impress ore than the Jabra's.


----------



## turbobb

Interesting finding for you history buffs (I was today years old when I found this).

Apparently Sennheiser was way ahead of the TWS game with the MX W1's which if the Amazon listing date is correct was back in 2005:
https://www.amazon.com/Sennheiser-MX-High-Fidelity-Discontinued-Manufacturer/dp/B0012XDEI4

Google results show earliest coverage back in early 2008 but I'm uncertain of exact release date.

While they are truly wireless, they relied on Kleer tech for uncompressed audio and also required a transmitter to be tethered to playback source.


----------



## Rickyearl

SomeGuyDude said:


> The UA products are gym specific. I have their on-ears (the Project Rock specifically, so that's double branding) and they're absolutely gangbusters for that purpose. Wouldn't get 'em for casual listening, but I think it's pretty dumb to get all hot and bothered about a product's branding if it's otherwise great.
> 
> I'm not terribly enthused about JBL either but, hey, we'll see.



Wouldn't say hot and bothered, more disappointed at the approach.  I still think of JBL as more Everest than "round bluetooth speaker with flashing lights."  I guess I need to get past that.


----------



## clerkpalmer

Update on the UA/JBL Flash for those who care:

*UA Flash: AptX Support Information*
The UA Flash does not support AptX or AAC audio codecs

As an aside, the SPN700 are on sale at BestBuy for $129.99.  I lost mine somewhere.  New colors too.  I wonder if Sony has a new model up their sleeves?


----------



## turbobb

clerkpalmer said:


> As an aside, the SPN700 are on sale... I wonder if Sony has a new model up their sleeves?


They do, it's the SPN900 but not available is US (hopefully soon). I'm looking forward to these due to the waterproofing.


----------



## clerkpalmer

You guys have convinced me:  just picked up an M2 black for $150 NIB on ebay.  My expectations are high!


----------



## god-bluff

Nothing new from Sony at CES. Not that it was needed but it's expected every 6-12 months nowadays. If it ain't broke....

And my NWF1000X certainly aren't :>


----------



## webvan

Same for my WF1000x, at their frequent <$100 price on Amazon they probably offer the best SQ/Price ratio... 



clerkpalmer said:


> Update on the UA/JBL Flash for those who care:
> 
> *UA Flash: AptX Support Information*
> The UA Flash does not support AptX or AAC audio codecs/QUOTE]
> ...


----------



## god-bluff (Jan 8, 2019)

Yes they sound fantastic and the fact that they are wireless and ultra comfortable is just a bonus. The fact that x person thinks that y earphone sounds better rmatters not  one iota to me.

Completely satisfied first time. I pity (only a little!) all the individuals that need to buy and return (why is this even allowed ) all these earphone and are still not happy


----------



## clerkpalmer

god-bluff said:


> Yes they sound fantastic and the fact that they are wireless and ultra comfortable is just a bonus. The fact that x person thinks that y earphone sounds better rmatters not  one iota to me.
> 
> Completely satisfied first time. I pity (only a little!) all the individuals that need to buy and return (why is this even allowed ) all these earphonesnd are still not


Because the hunt for the best is never ending and the road to it is fun. 

I personally only return stuff that I deem to be much worse than advertised. For instance, I bought the JLab flex sports over the weekend and they are complete garbage and are going back. I usually do my research and if I buy something with meh reviews and I get it and it’s indeed meh, I live with it and take the loss to eBay.


----------



## hifi80sman

turbobb said:


> Interesting finding for you history buffs (I was today years old when I found this).
> 
> Apparently Sennheiser was way ahead of the TWS game with the MX W1's which if the Amazon listing date is correct was back in 2005:
> https://www.amazon.com/Sennheiser-MX-High-Fidelity-Discontinued-Manufacturer/dp/B0012XDEI4
> ...


The original AirPods.  We've come a long way.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

Luchyres said:


> Thanks! Final question - what IEM would you buy for under $1K?
> 
> I just wish the 1more Quad had MMCX connectors, but I really appreciate your insights! I decided to buy the Earin M-2 in white and then boom, the sale ended. So, now I'm considering picking up the black ones on eBay, but only if I can get it for a price where I'm ok with no returns.
> 
> Earin Support said they expect the black to be back in stock in late February or March, and he wisely refused to let me know anything about an M-3. "Work on the next product is ongoing. I just can not say when we will release any information for that product though."



That's outta my wheelhouse, sadly. Only true flagship I've had was the Shure se846 and while I adored that I wouldn't know where to rank anything else above $500. Currently my favorite wired IEM is the Periodic Be, though.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

god-bluff said:


> Yes they sound fantastic and the fact that they are wireless and ultra comfortable is just a bonus. The fact that x person thinks that y earphone sounds better rmatters not  one iota to me.
> 
> Completely satisfied first time. I pity (only a little!) all the individuals that need to buy and return (why is this even allowed ) all these earphone and are still not happy



Yeah it really sucks constantly finding new things to explore and enjoy. Really rough.

Good point on the returns, too. There's no worse business practice than giving customers the security that they can purchase something and give it back if they don't like it. Plus, god _damn_ do I hate getting discounts on open-box items that other people have returned.


----------



## hifi80sman

Rickyearl said:


> Wouldn't say hot and bothered, more disappointed at the approach.  I still think of JBL as more Everest than "round bluetooth speaker with flashing lights."  I guess I need to get past that.


In terms of style, the Under Armor line is pretty good.

The Everest line, especially the originals, were actually not bad sound-wise, but they were ugly.  So ugly.  Headband cracking issues as well.  The 2nd Everest Generation were smaller and looked a little better, but they're still like a Princess Leia head piece.  Sound is decent, but the build quality is pretty flimsy.

JBL releases a lot of stuff, but IMO, they need to focus on a few key products, make those well, and an image re-brand.  Even if they have some good stuff, nobody is really "excited", but shoot, Sennheiser releases the MTW and it's sold out everywhere.  If you try to purchase from Best Buy today, soonest delivery is in mid-February.  The MW07 in Grey Terrazzo is sold out most places.


----------



## hifi80sman

SomeGuyDude said:


> Good point on the returns, too. There's no worse business practice than giving customers the security that they can purchase something and give it back if they don't like it. Plus, god _damn_ do I hate getting discounts on open-box items that other people have returned.


I literally LOLd.


----------



## god-bluff

hifi80sman said:


> I literally LOLd.



Yes I agree you should literally be able to "lmfbao' return anything you're not too keen on, an open tin of baked beans, a half eaten burger,  a well thumbed and completed albeit  unsatisfactory ending paperback book, an airline ticket mid Atlantic, a not quite perfect child perhaps.

The customer is always right. Some lucky devil will buy it or at least pick up the tab somewhere down the line.

Carry on


----------



## chinmie

clerkpalmer said:


> My only point is M2 was a botched release and they are already based on dates tech. Doesn’t make them bad but they clearly should be ready for a new model. They got released after they were acquired. I believe they were released oversees much earlier than the US. Nothing wrong with buying them.



with the overall SQ, size, battery life, connection stability, etc, the M2 is still pretty much "futuristic" compared to the others. i would love to see the M3 soon, but the M2 can hold it's ground just fine these days.

i also really like the ambient mode of the M2, as they are using adjustable noise gate to cut out ambient noise and only opens when higher volumed sound detected. might sound metallic, but we can hear conversations clearer.

the Jabra and Sony just basically turn on the mic and let everything in.. so we hear constant hiss of the noise floor.

the funny thing is, the M2 is the cheapest price i paid to aquire from all my TWS collection, so if i factor that in, my M2 is the best price to performance ratio


----------



## chrisbriton

Loving the MW07’s but having a few issues finding the best ear tips to keep everything as secure as possible while excercising. All tips have been tested using the silicone fins.
Not much luck with the stock tips, they seem to dislodge with very little movement. 
Found great sound and isolation using normal bore symbio tips, felt extremely solid sitting still but soon came loose with a bit of movement. 
Lastly tried the spinfit cp100z. These seem to stay in my ears the longest without adjustment but lacking the other benefits of the symbio’s and still feel a little unstable. 
Can anyone recommend any more compatible tips that might be worth a try? 
Thanks


----------



## albau (Jan 8, 2019)

chrisbriton said:


> Loving the MW07’s but having a few issues finding the best ear tips to keep everything as secure as possible while excercising. All tips have been tested using the silicone fins.
> Not much luck with the stock tips, they seem to dislodge with very little movement.
> Found great sound and isolation using normal bore symbio tips, felt extremely solid sitting still but soon came loose with a bit of movement.
> Lastly tried the spinfit cp100z. These seem to stay in my ears the longest without adjustment but lacking the other benefits of the symbio’s and still feel a little unstable.
> ...


I also had trouble with stock tips. But for me cp100z + large fin solved stability at the gym. I suggest you try to slowly turn every bud inside your ear until the fin "clings" behind some ridge.


----------



## chrisbriton

albau said:


> I also had trouble with stock tips. But for me cp100z + large fin solved stability at the gym. I suggest you try to slowly turn every bud inside your ear until the fin "clings" behind some ridge.


Thanks, will give this a try


----------



## WesennTony

Tried Earin m2 for two days. Overall the sound is very pleasant, though the SQ is still behind MW07. Also I experienced dropouts that are more than I expected, in a quiet office without any other bluetooth devices activated. Usually a couple of times every hour. MW07s work perfectly without any dropouts.  I'm wondering if I get a faulty pair.


----------



## hifi80sman

god-bluff said:


> Yes I agree you should literally be able to "lmfbao' return anything you're not too keen on, an open tin of baked beans, a half eaten burger, a well thumbed and completed albeit unsatisfactory ending paperback book, an airline ticket mid Atlantic, a not quite perfect child perhaps.


If those are your equivalencies, then I think we're just going to be on a different page.

Best Buy used to have a restocking fee on returned items, but they found people would just shop elsewhere vs. have to deal with the fee, so they got rid of it.  If your honor prevents you from returning, more power to you.

Why not just regulate sales claims on packaging?  Hi-Fi sound?  Man, see that all the time.  Some of those units are the most Low-Fi sound, like ever.  Everyone is trying to sell me, so I should have the right to return if the product does not match the hype.  And, no, I do not return food.  LOL!


----------



## korefuji

WesennTony said:


> Tried Earin m2 for two days. Overall the sound is very pleasant, though the SQ is still behind MW07. Also I experienced dropouts that are more than I expected, in a quiet office without any other bluetooth devices activated. Usually a couple of times every hour. MW07s work perfectly without any dropouts.  I'm wondering if I get a faulty pair.




That's disappointing. Did you do the 30 min firmware update? I understand that fixed a few things, I guess I'll find out Thursday whether i keep them or sell them on...


----------



## WesennTony

korefuji said:


> That's disappointing. Did you do the 30 min firmware update? I understand that fixed a few things, I guess I'll find out Thursday whether i keep them or sell them on...


Yes I did the update the first thing I received them.


----------



## clerkpalmer

albau said:


> I also had trouble with stock tips. But for me cp100z + large fin solved stability at the gym. I suggest you try to slowly turn every bud inside your ear until the fin "clings" behind some ridge.


turning works for me. I have to rotate them to about 30 degress up from level to get them to stay put. I have noticed a little sweat and the fin


hifi80sman said:


> If those are your equivalencies, then I think we're just going to be on a different page.
> 
> Best Buy used to have a restocking fee on returned items, but they found people would just shop elsewhere vs. have to deal with the fee, so they got rid of it.  If your honor prevents you from returning, more power to you.
> 
> Why not just regulate sales claims on packaging?  Hi-Fi sound?  Man, see that all the time.  Some of those units are the most Low-Fi sound, like ever.  Everyone is trying to sell me, so I should have the right to return if the product does not match the hype.  And, no, I do not return food.  LOL!


Anyone ever get banned from Best Buy for returns? That usually keeps me from returning stuff. The JLab flex sport suck so bad I don’t care but usually I eat the loss.


----------



## korefuji

WesennTony said:


> Yes I did the update the first thing I received them.



Damn was hoping that was happening before you did the update. Guess I'll return or sell them. Ugh.


----------



## Spamateur

god-bluff said:


> Yes I agree you should literally be able to "lmfbao' return anything you're not too keen on, an open tin of baked beans, a half eaten burger,  a well thumbed and completed albeit  unsatisfactory ending paperback book, an airline ticket mid Atlantic, a not quite perfect child perhaps.
> 
> The customer is always right. Some lucky devil will buy it or at least pick up the tab somewhere down the line.
> 
> Carry on





This is a silly and judgmental false equivalence taken to the extreme. Please go find another thread if you have nothing useful to contribute except passive-aggressiveness and an unearned sense of self-superiority.


----------



## Spamateur

I shot Sennheiser a question about the MTW battery behavior we've been discussing here and got the following info back from their customer service:

_Different battery levels of the right and the left ear bud are normal even when the system is fully charged. This does not affect the specified 4 hours operating time for the system.

Sennheiser will evaluate if with a future firmware update the battery levels can be aligned. This is due to the right earbud having a slightly larger battery. It is made this way to to compensate a higher battery draw since it houses the main controls.
_
Interesting about the slightly larger battery on the right earpiece. At least now we know, although this still doesn't seem to address the other battery-related issues with the earpieces not turning off in the case and the case draining at a surprising rate even when the earpieces should be at full charge.


----------



## hifi80sman (Jan 8, 2019)

clerkpalmer said:


> turning works for me. I have to rotate them to about 30 degress up from level to get them to stay put. I have noticed a little sweat and the fin
> 
> Anyone ever get banned from Best Buy for returns? That usually keeps me from returning stuff. The JLab flex sport suck so bad I don’t care but usually I eat the loss.


Yeah, I eat the loss on a lot of Chi-Fi stuff from Amazon.  $20, $30 and I pretty much know what I'm getting.  I can usually EQ via Android to a pretty respectable sound level, which is actually part of the fun.

Yes, they do ban and it's through their 3rd party vendor, The Retail Equation, who they hire to manage that risk.  Even if the manager wants to override, they can't, you have to go thru The Retail Equation.  Essentially, they have an algorithm, for which Best Buy has obviously provided them with some tolerances, to track returns and issue warnings or bans if they become "excessive".  If you look online, the examples vary widely, with some people claiming it was just 1 or 2 returns before ban.  When I first started this hobby, I probably returned 5 or 6 items before getting a warning that I would not be able to return any additional items for 90 days.  A few of them were unopened, as I just changed my mind the same day because I found something else when I was out shopping.  Those still count against you, unfortunately.

That, obviously, is always a concern with companies that aren't as product diversified and use these types of services to manage risk/minimize loss.  If you truly intend on keeping what you buy, it really shouldn't be an issue.  If I can get it elsewhere, I will (Costco, Target, etc).


----------



## hifi80sman

Spamateur said:


> I shot Sennheiser a question about the MTW battery behavior we've been discussing here and got the following info back from their customer service:
> 
> _Different battery levels of the right and the left ear bud are normal even when the system is fully charged. This does not affect the specified 4 hours operating time for the system.
> 
> ...


My MTW are currently "out for delivery", so I'll see what I get in terms of battery.  I will also see if there is a difference between what's displayed on Android (Oreo) vs. iOS (12.1.2).  The battery % reporting definitely sounds like a software related issue, as they probably use the same baseline, yet each have a different battery and require a separate baseline.

It does sound like Sennheiser is at least looking into reported issues and already have 2 updates coming out to address.


----------



## chinmie (Jan 8, 2019)

turbobb said:


> They do, it's the SPN900 but not available is US (hopefully soon). I'm looking forward to these due to the waterproofing.



waterproofing is one of the best "ease of mind" invention


----------



## Spamateur

hifi80sman said:


> My MTW are currently "out for delivery", so I'll see what I get in terms of battery.  I will also see if there is a difference between what's displayed on Android (Oreo) vs. iOS (12.1.2).  The battery % reporting definitely sounds like a software related issue, as they probably use the same baseline, yet each have a different battery and require a separate baseline.
> 
> It does sound like Sennheiser is at least looking into reported issues and already have 2 updates coming out to address.



Yup, it seems like the software is just being honest about the values it's reporting, and that they're unadjusted for the battery size difference, or something like that. It is confidence-building that they're releasing bugfixes so quickly. I like mine enough that my Jabras haven't left their case in a couple weeks. Even if the Jabras are superior in battery life and basic functionality, the sound quality of the MTW is far superior.

Looking forward to seeing your comparisons with the MW07.


----------



## Rickyearl

hifi80sman said:


> If those are your equivalencies, then I think we're just going to be on a different page.
> 
> Best Buy used to have a restocking fee on returned items, but they found people would just shop elsewhere vs. have to deal with the fee, so they got rid of it.  If your honor prevents you from returning, more power to you.
> 
> Why not just regulate sales claims on packaging?  Hi-Fi sound?  Man, see that all the time.  Some of those units are the most Low-Fi sound, like ever.  Everyone is trying to sell me, so I should have the right to return if the product does not match the hype.  And, no, I do not return food.  LOL!



If you had the E8s sometime before about this time last year, they had all kinds of issues.  Bad connection drops, odd metallic sounds, weird L side cutouts, pairing difficulties, battery issues.  If you look at a review from 2017 you'll see all those complaints.

B&O fixed all of that in one firmware update (IIRC), and (my fit issues aside), they pretty much took care of every issue but the dropouts that some folks still experience.

So I think it's possible for sure.


----------



## korefuji

Interesting about the comment from Senn about battery and such, it seems to be a similar case with the NuForce, Here's a snapshot of their comment on Massdrop.


----------



## god-bluff

Spamateur said:


> This is a silly and judgmental false equivalence taken to the extreme. Please go find another thread if you have nothing useful to contribute except passive-aggressiveness and an unearned sense of self-superiority.


Cheers shall do. I'm sorted, Ta.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

god-bluff said:


> Yes I agree you should literally be able to "lmfbao' return anything you're not too keen on, an open tin of baked beans, a half eaten burger,  a well thumbed and completed albeit  unsatisfactory ending paperback book, an airline ticket mid Atlantic, a not quite perfect child perhaps.
> 
> The customer is always right. Some lucky devil will buy it or at least pick up the tab somewhere down the line.
> 
> Carry on



I'm struggling to accept that this was written by a person. No one, _no one_, who cares about customer satisfaction would ever suggest that returning items is a bad thing. It's not even bad for business. At all.

Let's put it like this. If someone is looking to purchase a high-ticket item, they're far less likely to do so if it's an all-or-nothing gamble where if they dislike it they're stuck with it. People are far looser with money if they have the flexibility to return things. That's why, for example, Best Buy actually _extends _the return window for customers who spend more. People who order high-end items off of Amazon sure as hell aren't going to do it if whatever shows up is just their problem no matter what.

By the way, despite your hilarious attempts at reductio ad absurdum "examples," book stores have return policies and so do grocery stores. Hell I get my pet food through Chewy and if my dog doesn't like it or seems to be having ill effects from it I can return a half-eaten bag. 

You know what the result of these policies is? I shop more from those stores. If there's no return policy, I avoid that like the plague. So, shockingly, stores that allow their customers to make returns on unsatisfactory items end up with long-term customer loyalty and a lot more revenue from said customers.

But hey, I guess you like being up on your straw-man arguing high horse, right?


----------



## hifi80sman

Just got these puppies and getting them fired up.  So far, battery showing 100% / 100%.  Transparent mode works nicely and is not uneven like the E8 (left side on E8 was much "hotter" than right).  Fit for me is similar to the E8, but without having to play with it to get a good seal.  I just pop it in, and boom, nice seal.  Not a fan of the EQ "dot" and much rather have a 9-Band EQ.  Listening now...


----------



## turbobb

chinmie said:


> waterproofing is one of the best "ease of mind" invention


oh nice, are those the X12's?


----------



## nc8000

WesennTony said:


> Yes I did the update the first thing I received them.



I’ve not had a single drop out on the M2 in my first 12 hours of use. Today I’ll be trying them out for the first time out in the real world in morning commuter trains and through Copenhagen central station and underground. Will see how they handle that


----------



## chinmie

turbobb said:


> oh nice, are those the X12's?



no, this is the Mifo o5. i don't know if the sabbat can be submerged like that although it says ipx7


----------



## jfvny

I have a bit of a weird question: Do any of you sleep with the TWEs? Or is there a pair of TWEs with an especially small profile? I sometimes sleep with earphones on, and while my Havit G1 is passable for this (protrudes a little more than I'd like though), using it like this means I'm out of charge before my morning run. And so I'm looking for a 2nd TWE pair (or at least that's the justification I'm giving myself lol)


----------



## chinmie

jfvny said:


> I have a bit of a weird question: Do any of you sleep with the TWEs? Or is there a pair of TWEs with an especially small profile? I sometimes sleep with earphones on, and while my Havit G1 is passable for this (protrudes a little more than I'd like though), using it like this means I'm out of charge before my morning run. And so I'm looking for a 2nd TWE pair (or at least that's the justification I'm giving myself lol)



i do. the most comfortable and flush profile are the sabbat and earin. the mifo is also flush, but still feel the pressure if i put my ear down on the pillow.


----------



## jeffri (Jan 9, 2019)

I do nap with headphones on often, but I have learned myself not to lean to sides when having headphones on (even though I'm side sleeper). 

You might want to consider Sleepbuds from Bose I think? Shame that we can't load our own music, but it's an interesting product specifically for this.


----------



## nc8000

jfvny said:


> I have a bit of a weird question: Do any of you sleep with the TWEs? Or is there a pair of TWEs with an especially small profile? I sometimes sleep with earphones on, and while my Havit G1 is passable for this (protrudes a little more than I'd like though), using it like this means I'm out of charge before my morning run. And so I'm looking for a 2nd TWE pair (or at least that's the justification I'm giving myself lol)



I do with the Earin M2, coulden’t with the Havit G1 nor the Beoplay E8


----------



## Boreaquis

chinmie said:


> no, this is the Mifo o5. i don't know if the sabbat can be submerged like that although it says ipx7



Where does it say ipx7 for the x12? The store page I used said ipx5, and I didn't see anything about waterproofing in the manual, so I wouldn't dare to submerge it.


----------



## RobinFood

I had a question about the Earin M2...

I have a very bad budget phone at the moment and it sports a very poor bluetooth chip that has a spotty connection and no APTx. 

I typically use my non-android DAP to listen to music, either wired or wireless through bluetooth, but that pretty much means I can&t use any apps. Of course, I could still do initial firmware updates with my phone, but would typically be using it app-less.

I am just wondering how important the app is to the Earin, and if there is any way to activate and deactivate the transparency mode using just the touch controls.

Also, what are the friendliest  app-less TWE out right now?


----------



## nc8000

RobinFood said:


> I had a question about the Earin M2...
> 
> I have a very bad budget phone at the moment and it sports a very poor bluetooth chip that has a spotty connection and no APTx.
> 
> ...



The Havit G1 has no app at all. The app for both M2 and Beoplay E8 just programs the behavior of the buds and handles fw updates, it’s not needed for normal operation, that is all done via the controls on the buds


----------



## webvan

chinmie said:


> with the overall SQ, size, battery life, connection stability, etc, the M2 is still pretty much "futuristic" compared to the others. i would love to see the M3 soon, but the M2 can hold it's ground just fine these days.
> 
> i also really like the ambient mode of the M2, as they are using adjustable noise gate to cut out ambient noise and only opens when higher volumed sound detected. might sound metallic, but we can hear conversations clearer.
> 
> ...


Sounds like you overpaid for your X12 then 

Since you have both and I know you liked the WF1000x SQ, how would you compare its SQ with the M2's SQ ?


----------



## chinmie

Boreaquis said:


> Where does it say ipx7 for the x12? The store page I used said ipx5, and I didn't see anything about waterproofing in the manual, so I wouldn't dare to submerge it.



you're right, it does indeed says ipx5, i mixed up with the mifo


----------



## chinmie

webvan said:


> Sounds like you overpaid for your X12 then
> 
> Since you have both and I know you liked the WF1000x SQ, how would you compare its SQ with the M2's SQ ?



no, i paid regular around 35 dollars for the Sabbat. the earin just happened to be that deal of a lifetime that won't come twice, and it's a brand new unit at that, 

the WF1000X just clicked when i first heard it, i like the overall presentation so much that i wonder if there's a wired equivalent that matches it overall staging and sound so i can buy it too.
with the M2 i need a bit of tip rolling because it's a bit sensitive to positioning and i don't like the stock foam tips. but once i settled, i really like it's balanced presentation.

both have different sound, but I'd say they are equal in SQ


----------



## BigZ12 (Jan 9, 2019)

Once again, (now it's an issue everytime) I listened to some music yesterday evening and then put the MTWs in the case at about 70%. Took them out a little while later, and both were 100%. Listened a little bit again, then put them in the case for the night. (without the USB-C cable).
When I woke up, the left bud is at 87% while the right is 100%... it's like when the buds are in the case over a longer period, the left uses power without being recharged? This happens only when it's not connected to a power source through the USB-C. (and yes, there's power left in the case)


----------



## alchemical

BigZ12 said:


> Once again, (now it's an issue everytime) I listened to some music yesterday evening and then put the MTWs in the case at about 70%. Took them out a little while later, and both were 100%. Listened a little bit again, then put them in the case for the night. (without the USB-C cable).
> When I woke up, the left bud is at 87% while the right is 100%... it's like when the buds are in the case over a longer period, the left uses power without being recharged? This happens only when it's not connected to a power source through the USB-C. (and yes, there's power left in the case)


Same behaviour as mine sadly. I really want to replace rather than get a refund, but concerned I’ll just encounter the same issue. I keep finding the case drained when I’ve barely used the buds, and the left bud never tops up to 100% unless connected to USB. Any MTW owners have a pair that don’t exhibit the faults we’ve experienced?


----------



## happytoon

Just a quick feedback on Sennheiser Momentum True Wireless --- AMAZING.
I am using these for about 4 weeks now, A great set! 

Pro:
- Out of the box, they sound better than my old wired Shure 235. great bass (not overpowering) and plenty of details and sound presence (can "position" sound in space easily).
- Above all, absolutely NO LATENCY when watching movies. I have connected these to my phone (Android Oreo), an Android tablet (Oreo), my Blue-ray player, a Samsung TV etc the lip-sync is absolutely spot on... What a pleasure to use (compare to my previous old BT set which had a few ms delays)!
- BT is solid, I never had any disconnection with any devices paired (so long I stay within 5m range). NFLI great, no disconnection between L/R earbuds either!
- Noise isolation and comfort are also great (I prefer foam, so use the Symbio W ear tips, fit in the case, no problem, the earbuds "clasp" magnetically when put in the case).
- Battery life, enough for my use, Movie, Music, etc (I watched a full movie last night (Infinity War - 2hr30), no worries, plenty of battery left when putting them back in the case.

Con:
- I am still not sure on the battery management. On a couple of occasions, I fully charged the buds overnight, use them once, then back in the case. The following day they were completely empty (as if still "on" in the case for all that time!). I also experience different between L/R, Right being master and also depends on how many use/touch command used between L/R. (I use the Left one more for play/pause, skipping track etc).

A brilliant set of earbuds.


----------



## RobinFood

nc8000 said:


> The Havit G1 has no app at all. The app for both M2 and Beoplay E8 just programs the behavior of the buds and handles fw updates, it’s not needed for normal operation, that is all done via the controls on the buds



Thanks. Does it remember the settings you set in if you use the app to set them and change device?

Does that means that with the M2 I could use the touch function to put it in transparency mode, listen to what my wife is asking me, and get out of transparency mode to block off the sound of the tv after, without the app?


----------



## nc8000

RobinFood said:


> Thanks. Does it remember the settings you set in if you use the app to set them and change device?
> 
> Does that means that with the M2 I could use the touch function to put it in transparency mode, listen to what my wife is asking me, and get out of transparency mode to block off the sound of the tv after, without the app?



I assume the settings would be kept between devices but don’t know as I only use them with one device. 

Yes you just tap on the bud and it goes into ambient/transparency and then tap again and it goes back to music. The app is not needed for normal operation. I generally only open the app every few weeks to check if there is fw updates or if I want to tweak the stored parameters


----------



## RobinFood

nc8000 said:


> I assume the settings would be kept between devices but don’t know as I only use them with one device.
> 
> Yes you just tap on the bud and it goes into ambient/transparency and then tap again and it goes back to music. The app is not needed for normal operation. I generally only open the app every few weeks to check if there is fw updates or if I want to tweak the stored parameters



That's fantastic. Looks like I will go audition it this weekend at the earphone store.


----------



## chinmie

RobinFood said:


> Thanks. Does it remember the settings you set in if you use the app to set them and change device?
> 
> Does that means that with the M2 I could use the touch function to put it in transparency mode, listen to what my wife is asking me, and get out of transparency mode to block off the sound of the tv after, without the app?



you need the app to toggle the transparency mode behaviour: off, on, or auto (off when music playing, on when you stop the music). there's currently no way of toggling from the unit itself. you could do like nc8000 suggested by putting it in auto mode, then you can use the touch button to pause the music (and automatically turning on the transparency mode)


----------



## jfvny

jeffri said:


> You might want to consider Sleepbuds from Bose I think? Shame that we can't load our own music, but it's an interesting product specifically for this.



Did consider that, but at that price and without the ability to play music... 



chinmie said:


> i do. the most comfortable and flush profile are the sabbat and earin. the mifo is also flush, but still feel the pressure if i put my ear down on the pillow.



Thanks! Was kinda hoping the Sabbat was good for this as its longer battery life really helps, so this is great.



nc8000 said:


> I do with the Earin M2, coulden’t with the Havit G1 nor the Beoplay E8



Wow another +1 for the Earins. I'm definitely regretting having missed the deal on these now


----------



## kiwikozo

I haven't had any connection drops with the Earin M2 after a solid week of use even with 96978695x resolutioners running around the gym. 

The connection on the M2 is stronger than the RHA True Connect which has Bluetooth 5.0.

I turn transparency mode off since I don't put earphones in to listen to other people. The only issue is sometimes people can't see I have them in my ears since they're so compact.


----------



## RobinFood

kiwikozo said:


> I haven't had any connection drops with the Earin M2 after a solid week of use even with 96978695x resolutioners running around the gym.
> 
> The connection on the M2 is stronger than the RHA True Connect which has Bluetooth 5.0.
> 
> I turn transparency mode off since I don't put earphones in to listen to other people. The only issue is sometimes people can't see I have them in my ears since they're so compact.



Oh wow, I hadn't noticed that the deal was done...to think that I almost bought them Monday, but wanted to preview them first over the weekend. At full price though they definitely look less appealing compared to the competition...not much of a stretch to get the MW07s instead...


----------



## god-bluff

SomeGuyDude said:


> I'm struggling to accept that this was written by a person. No one, _no one_, who cares about customer satisfaction would ever suggest that returning items is a bad thing. It's not even bad for business. At all.
> 
> Let's put it like this. If someone is looking to purchase a high-ticket item, they're far less likely to do so if it's an all-or-nothing gamble where if they dislike it they're stuck with it. People are far looser with money if they have the flexibility to return things. That's why, for example, Best Buy actually _extends _the return window for customers who spend more. People who order high-end items off of Amazon sure as hell aren't going to do it if whatever shows up is just their problem no matter what.
> 
> ...



Only acceptable to me if the item is faulty or not fit for purpose, not if you simply dont like it. Thats maybe  just my old fashioned British (we traditionally don't like to complain or apportion blame) view. You're entitled to yours

I sell a product if I dont like it, not use companies as hire shops or lending libraries. Hardly a contentious opinion is it? ....REALLY ?!

Anyway 100% satisfaction with my Sonys thank you


----------



## WesennTony (Jan 9, 2019)

kiwikozo said:


> I haven't had any connection drops with the Earin M2 after a solid week of use even with 96978695x resolutioners running around the gym.
> 
> The connection on the M2 is stronger than the RHA True Connect which has Bluetooth 5.0.
> 
> I turn transparency mode off since I don't put earphones in to listen to other people. The only issue is sometimes people can't see I have them in my ears since they're so compact.


I may have misused the term "dropout". It's cutting out, the sporadic short loss of sound for a fraction of a second. Anyway, I switched the codec in my phone (LG v30) from AAC to Aptx, the cutting out disappears! I tried about 40mins last night and 40-50mins this morning, and no cutting out occurs. Also the sound is slightly better to my ear. I guess they "optimize" the decoding of AAC to extend the battery life, which works well for IPhones. If that's the case, I hope they won't do the same thing to Aptx in future updates, as I would rather lose some battery life.

Now I'm very happy with M2. I agree that it's the best all around TWE so far. So glad I did not miss the last batch of black ones on sale.


----------



## clerkpalmer

I have read several sources saying that AAC over android is different than AAC over iPhone.  AAC over iPhone is supposed to be superior. If you are using Android, I think aptx is probably the way to go but it’s interesting that the android phones seem to default to AAC.


----------



## WesennTony

jfvny said:


> I have a bit of a weird question: Do any of you sleep with the TWEs? Or is there a pair of TWEs with an especially small profile? I sometimes sleep with earphones on, and while my Havit G1 is passable for this (protrudes a little more than I'd like though), using it like this means I'm out of charge before my morning run. And so I'm looking for a 2nd TWE pair (or at least that's the justification I'm giving myself lol)


I just received Havit G1 yesterday after 6-week shipment from Aliexpress. Don't have time to test them yet, but the manual states that they'll automatically shut down after 3mins without playing. So if you set the sleep timer in you phone, is that possible to shut down G1 automatically?

Yes I do the nap with Sabbat X12 pro on after the lunch. They're very comfortable and like G1, they shut down automatically.


----------



## WesennTony

clerkpalmer said:


> I have read several sources saying that AAC over android is different than AAC over iPhone.  AAC over iPhone is supposed to be superior. If you are using Android, I think aptx is probably the way to go but it’s interesting that the android phones seem to default to AAC.


Is there any way to set the default to Aptx?
MW07s do not have this issue. So I guess this is caused by both sides.


----------



## nc8000

Have had 2 3 hour commutes today on train and busses including underground and passing through Copenhagen central station hall twice. No cut off or dropout on the M2.  This with an iPhone so aac codec


----------



## nc8000

One odd thing with the Earin M2. When the battery reaches about 50% I get 2 beeps and playback stops and when I turn music on again the volume has been reduced. This has happened every time I have used them (6 times now). Other than this no problems what so ever. Anybody else get this ?


----------



## WesennTony

I don't have this issue. Just guessing if you're running Earin app on the background. I found that at times it tries to reconnect to the earbud, which may have some side effect.


----------



## albau

hifi80sman said:


> Just got these puppies and getting them fired up. So far, battery showing 100% / 100%. Transparent mode works nicely and is not uneven like the E8 (left side on E8 was much "hotter" than right). Fit for me is similar to the E8, but without having to play with it to get a good seal. I just pop it in, and boom, nice seal. Not a fan of the EQ "dot" and much rather have a 9-Band EQ. Listening now..


Very anxious to hear your take on clash of titans. With MW07 for the time being I almost lost an itch. Almost...


----------



## Rickyearl

To @hifi80sman and anyone else with the JLabs JBuds Air, do you get random total disconnects?  I bought a pair for each of my 2 kids for Christmas.  Both report very good sound, but independently have said the bluetooth connection will just completely drop off at random and never reconnect - and they have to put the JBuds back into the case then take them out and reconnect through the Iphone's bluetooth settings.  Said it happens pretty much every time they listen to them for at least an hour.

One pair it seems like just one of those things, but two pairs seems like an issue.


----------



## kellte2

The MTW are going back. They keep falling out of the wife’s ears and she tells me that the gesture controls are completely unreliable. Liked the sound, but too many other issues. Very surprised to read so many positive reviews from tech blogs/websites, but their excellent sound comes with a lot of other trade offs. YMMV.


----------



## Rickyearl

BigZ12 said:


> Once again, (now it's an issue everytime) I listened to some music yesterday evening and then put the MTWs in the case at about 70%. Took them out a little while later, and both were 100%. Listened a little bit again, then put them in the case for the night. (without the USB-C cable).
> When I woke up, the left bud is at 87% while the right is 100%... it's like when the buds are in the case over a longer period, the left uses power without being recharged? This happens only when it's not connected to a power source through the USB-C. (and yes, there's power left in the case)


@dweaver and I had an issue where they don't charge or charge as well transported as they do sitting on a desktop.  I think the connection between the case and IEMs is disconnecting for seconds/minutes all the time when it's moved around, causing the MTWs to drain rather than charge during those times.  To me this means it's not the most robust connection - unlike the E8.  I thought about wadding up a handkerchief inside the top of the case to see if that helped but honestly forgot until just now.

It wouldn't be a big jump for me to say that there are units where, even when not moved around or jostled, one side or both is constantly connecting and disconnecting. The connection just seems weak.


----------



## clerkpalmer

kellte2 said:


> The MTW are going back. They keep falling out of the wife’s ears and she tells me that the gesture controls are completely unreliable. Liked the sound, but too many other issues. Very surprised to read so many positive reviews from tech blogs/websites, but their excellent sound comes with a lot of other trade offs. YMMV.


Not surprised the MTW is hard to fit on smaller ears.


----------



## Rickyearl

kellte2 said:


> The MTW are going back. They keep falling out of the wife’s ears and she tells me that the gesture controls are completely unreliable. Liked the sound, but too many other issues. Very surprised to read so many positive reviews from tech blogs/websites, but their excellent sound comes with a lot of other trade offs. YMMV.



I think this is a very fair assessment.  Excellent sound.  Everything else half-baked and "beta" feeling.


----------



## clerkpalmer

Earin arrived. Not enjoying the pairing process.  Both are paired to my iPhone but music only out of one of them.  Any ideas? Tried disconnecting and connecting several times.

Thanks.


----------



## korefuji

clerkpalmer said:


> Earin arrived. Not enjoying the pairing process.  Both are paired to my iPhone but music only out of one of them.  Any ideas? Tried disconnecting and connecting several times.
> 
> Thanks.


Firmware updated?


----------



## clerkpalmer

korefuji said:


> Firmware updated?


Got them working.  What a PIA that was.  Only started working after I get them connected to the app.   No rhyme or reason as to why the suddenly started working.  Is this the process you need to go through to have multiple devices?


----------



## clerkpalmer

They do sound lovely.


----------



## WesennTony

nc8000 said:


> One odd thing with the Earin M2. When the battery reaches about 50% I get 2 beeps and playback stops and when I turn music on again the volume has been reduced. This has happened every time I have used them (6 times now). Other than this no problems what so ever. Anybody else get this ?


Yep it happened in my M2 as well after 1.5hr use. I noticed that they switch the master earbud automatically to the other side. I can tell it since the led light on master earbud keeps flashing. Also the codec changes back to AAC. The volume does not change, though. Maybe you changed the balance in the app?


----------



## WesennTony

Also odd thing happened. After switching the master side, the touch control stops working.


----------



## nc8000 (Jan 9, 2019)

WesennTony said:


> Yep it happened in my M2 as well after 1.5hr use. I noticed that they switch the master earbud automatically to the other side. I can tell it since the led light on master earbud keeps flashing. Also the codec changes back to AAC. The volume does not change, though. Maybe you changed the balance in the app?


 
I don't use the app at all, have not started it since I upgraded fw last week. Volume goes down 2 or 3 steps, and yes I've also noted that they swap master/slave when it happens. As I'm on an iPhone I'm always on aac


----------



## nc8000 (Jan 9, 2019)

clerkpalmer said:


> Got them working.  What a PIA that was.  Only started working after I get them connected to the app.   No rhyme or reason as to why the suddenly started working.  Is this the process you need to go through to have multiple devices?



Yes the pairing is strange and not clearly described in the manual. You need to take only one bud out of the case and pair it, put it back in the case and take the other bud out and pair it and put it back in the case. Then they are fully and correctly paired. After that the first bud you take out becomes master and the second slave or you can just use the first bud alone in mono


----------



## WesennTony (Jan 9, 2019)

Actually the touch control stops working when I use Aptx codec. After that, it does not work even if I change the codec back to AAC, unless I return them to the case, and put them back on.


----------



## jfvny (Jan 9, 2019)

WesennTony said:


> I just received Havit G1 yesterday after 6-week shipment from Aliexpress. Don't have time to test them yet, but the manual states that they'll automatically shut down after 3mins without playing. So if you set the sleep timer in you phone, is that possible to shut down G1 automatically?
> 
> Yes I do the nap with Sabbat X12 pro on after the lunch. They're very comfortable and like G1, they shut down automatically.


hmm my G1s definitely don't shut down even when i'm not playing music. Pretty sure I've left them alone for an hour and they're still on. Maybe if the bluetooth is unconnected they'll shut down tho?

I'm curious as to how you'd compare the X12 and G1's sound too, after you've had time to listen to the G1!


----------



## clerkpalmer

WesennTony said:


> Yep it happened in my M2 as well after 1.5hr use. I noticed that they switch the master earbud automatically to the other side. I can tell it since the led light on master earbud keeps flashing. Also the codec changes back to AAC. The volume does not change, though. Maybe you changed the balance in the app?



I see.  That is definitely not clear from the manual.  The manual skips the part about putting the first one back in before pairing the second.  I pulled one out - paired it and then pulled the second one out and paired it.  Probably why I was getting mono sound.   If that's the trick, that's an easy fix.


----------



## firewatersun

WesennTony said:


> Is there any way to set the default to Aptx?
> MW07s do not have this issue. So I guess this is caused by both sides.


You may need to enable developer options, and change it in the bluetooth settings there. For me, they're different for each individual bluetooth connection, which is ridiculous. 

My MW07 defaulted to SBC, but after swapping it to aptX it's consistently aptX. I tried AAC but didn't really hear much of a difference, and it would often default back to aptX for some reason.


----------



## SuperLuigi

So glad i came across this discussion while i was researching True wireless.  

Just a quick question if someone has some advice.  I'm looking to get true wirelss headphones but i need the audio pass through/ambient noise feature.  I'm trying to keep this as cheap as possible and seems like the Jabra 65T might fit the the bill. Anything else to consider thats cheaper or similiar price point?  I can get the jabra for $135 Canadian.


----------



## clerkpalmer

Do I have to update each bud separately?  How do I go about switching them to update?


----------



## WesennTony

jfvny said:


> hmm my G1s definitely don't shut down even when i'm not playing music. Pretty sure I've left them alone for an hour and they're still on. Maybe if the bluetooth is unconnected they'll shut down tho?
> 
> I'm curious as to how you'd compare the X12 and G1's sound too, after you've had time to listen to the G1!


To my ear X12 sound more clear and refined, but less bass. G1 is a little grainy. I prefer X12 pro generally, but G1 may be more suitable for gym use due to the powered bass and sound isolation. X12 pro also shuts down automatically, though I hope that the standby time can be a little longer.


----------



## WesennTony

firewatersun said:


> You may need to enable developer options, and change it in the bluetooth settings there. For me, they're different for each individual bluetooth connection, which is ridiculous.
> 
> My MW07 defaulted to SBC, but after swapping it to aptX it's consistently aptX. I tried AAC but didn't really hear much of a difference, and it would often default back to aptX for some reason.


I do enable the developer options, but nowhere I can find a way to re-set the default codec. Every time it goes back to AAC, unless the earphone supports Aptx-HD.


----------



## nc8000

clerkpalmer said:


> Do I have to update each bud separately?  How do I go about switching them to update?



Yes you have to do them individually. Start the process in the app, take one out and update it, when update is finished put it back and take the other out and update. The on screen promots explain fairly well. Takes about 30 minutes per bud


----------



## clerkpalmer

nc8000 said:


> Yes you have to do them individually. Start the process in the app, take one out and update it, when update is finished put it back and take the other out and update. The on screen promots explain fairly well. Takes about 30 minutes per bud



Reminds of updating bragi dash years ago.  Hence, further evidence the M2 is 2+ year old tech.  Jabra can knock out an update in 5 minutes.


----------



## mikp

WesennTony said:


> I do enable the developer options, but nowhere I can find a way to re-set the default codec. Every time it goes back to AAC, unless the earphone supports Aptx-HD.



Same issue on my lg g7. With headphones that support aptx,aac and sbc it always defaults to aac. With headphones that only support aptx and sbc it defaults to aptx. With ldac headphones it defaults to ldac, so phone sets aac over aptx.


----------



## jfvny

WesennTony said:


> To my ear X12 sound more clear and refined, but less bass. G1 is a little grainy. I prefer X12 pro generally, but G1 may be more suitable for gym use due to the powered bass and sound isolation. X12 pro also shuts down automatically, though I hope that the standby time can be a little longer.


Thanks for the comparison! 
Damn i'm even more tempted to get a pair of the Sabbats now. Tho I'd prob go for the newer E12 that uses ear tips.


----------



## nc8000

clerkpalmer said:


> Reminds of updating bragi dash years ago.  Hence, further evidence the M2 is 2+ year old tech.  Jabra can knock out an update in 5 minutes.



I assume the reason is that both buds can be either master or slave, but it sure is a long time


----------



## jfvny

SuperLuigi said:


> Just a quick question if someone has some advice.  I'm looking to get true wirelss headphones but i need the audio pass through/ambient noise feature.  I'm trying to keep this as cheap as possible and seems like the Jabra 65T might fit the the bill. Anything else to consider thats cheaper or similiar price point?  I can get the jabra for $135 Canadian.


I've not owned either, but from what I've seen the the Jabra 65T or the Sony TWEs are prob the cheapest with the ambient sound feature


----------



## hifi80sman

Rickyearl said:


> To @hifi80sman and anyone else with the JLabs JBuds Air, do you get random total disconnects?  I bought a pair for each of my 2 kids for Christmas.  Both report very good sound, but independently have said the bluetooth connection will just completely drop off at random and never reconnect - and they have to put the JBuds back into the case then take them out and reconnect through the Iphone's bluetooth settings.  Said it happens pretty much every time they listen to them for at least an hour.
> 
> One pair it seems like just one of those things, but two pairs seems like an issue.


I did not notice any random disconnects, but I no longer use them.  I ended up giving them to my tweener and he hasn't said anything and all seems to be well.  Seems odd they actually have to reconnect thru settings.  I would unpair, restart the phones, then re-pair (if you've not already done so).  I actually had a different issue with the EQ feature, where it would be louder on one side when I switched to anything other than the default setting.  Not sure if you're having that issue, but you may want to exchange.


----------



## turbobb (Jan 9, 2019)

mikp said:


> Same issue on my lg g7. With headphones that support aptx,aac and sbc it always defaults to aac. With headphones that only support aptx and sbc it defaults to aptx. With ldac headphones it defaults to ldac, so phone sets aac over aptx.



Wondering if it's a LG thing since WesennTony and I both have V30 and I've noticed the exact defaults as you've described.


----------



## mikp

turbobb said:


> Wondering if it's a LG thing since WesennTony and I both have V30 and I've noticed the exact dafaults as you've described.



i have tried to message lg before but no answer


----------



## clerkpalmer (Jan 9, 2019)

Okay - after about 90 minutes of dealing with connecting these M2 and getting them updated (serious PIA), I have them up and running.  Impressions:

1.  SQ - very very good.  Better than 65t.  Close call with the RHA True Connect.  A little warmer and more bass.  Not there with MW07.  Would be a closer call with the MTW.  Sound is what I would call balanced, warmish and a bass boost.  Impressed.

2.  Build quality and fit.  Wow, these really impress here.  They are so small!  Nice piece of engineering given everyone else is making huge earbuds that stick out all over the place.  I imagine getting this SQ into this small package was a tough feat.  They are very light and the stock ear tips have a nice grippy texture to them.  So even without any stabilizers, these will probably stay put during a workout.

I think these are in a dead heat with RHA True connect.  At $250, these are overpriced and I would go with the MW07 every time.  At $175, these are a pretty nice option particularly if the form factor is attractive to you.  The RHA has newer tech and better battery life and different but IMHO equal sound.  But, no updates from RHA.

Note:  I don't typically use touch controls so I don't care about them.  I also haven't taken these outside to test connectivity. 

Edit: Some have reported issues with RHA True Connect.  My first pair were DOA.  Second pair have been flawless.


----------



## korefuji

Thanks for the initial impressions I have to say I’m not looking forward to updating my M-2 when they arrive tomorrow every time there’s a firmware update. Yiked


----------



## clerkpalmer

korefuji said:


> Thanks for the initial impressions I have to say I’m not looking forward to updating my M-2 when they arrive tomorrow every time there’s a firmware update. Yiked



PAIN IN THE A$$.


----------



## turbobb

mikp said:


> i have tried to message lg before but no answer



I've only had slightly better success in that they replied but it took many follow up's for them to finally confirm that the V30 didn't have aptX LL support (this was when I first got the phone Dec '17). Between that, the jack issues with recording audio line-in and now screen banding, it's likely I'll forego LG with next upgrade but I'll defo want the Snapdragon 855 so I can take advantage of the TW Stereo profile.

In hindsight, I may not have paired the Mpow T5 correctly with the Note 9 thus didn't notice any improvement. Gotta retest that...

Is there anyone on this thread with Mavin Air-X (QCC3026) or T5 that has it paired with a Snapdragon 845?


----------



## mikp

turbobb said:


> I've only had slightly better success in that they replied but it took many follow up's for them to finally confirm that the V30 didn't have aptX LL support (this was when I first got the phone Dec '17). Between that, the jack issues with recording audio line-in and now screen banding, it's likely I'll forego LG with next upgrade but I'll defo want the Snapdragon 855 so I can take advantage of the TW Stereo profile.
> 
> In hindsight, I may not have paired the Mpow T5 correctly with the Note 9 thus didn't notice any improvement. Gotta retest that...
> 
> Is there anyone on this thread with Mavin Air-X (QCC3026) or T5 that has it paired with a Snapdragon 845?



i have not figured out how the qcc3026 true wireless works with my g7. Other than either l or r earbud can be connected to the phone and still have stereo. Think I read somewhere that truewireless is not working on the qualcomm aqnd needs phone updates.


----------



## Rickyearl (Jan 9, 2019)

hifi80sman said:


> I did not notice any random disconnects, but I no longer use them.  I ended up giving them to my tweener and he hasn't said anything and all seems to be well.  Seems odd they actually have to reconnect thru settings.  I would unpair, restart the phones, then re-pair (if you've not already done so).  I actually had a different issue with the EQ feature, where it would be louder on one side when I switched to anything other than the default setting.  Not sure if you're having that issue, but you may want to exchange.



Thanks.  Yeah, more in-depth troubleshooting will wait until this weekend, but both claim they did the full factory reset at my request.  But it's possible that they may not have restarted their phones since they got them 2 years ago.

No mention of volume imbalance.

Oh, my wife just told me the Earins came today.  Ordered on Saturday.  Free shipping from Sweden and 3 business days' delivery (sign required) is damn impressive.  Don't know what that cost but it wasn't cheap.  So now I feel like the $175 all-in was an even better deal.  

Will test out the sound when I get home.


----------



## hifi80sman (Jan 9, 2019)

*MTW & MW07 Comparison, MTW Impressions*
*
CASE*
MTW:  Attractive, not as large as I thought.  In between the size of the Bose and M&D.  Cloth finish is different, but I can appreciate that it won't show small scratches over time.  Magnetically closes, but I wish the hinge felt a bit more robust.  Still a nice case and in the upper end of all TWEs.  Charged the MTW overnight and case still green this morning.  Now I'm seeing the L / R battery life variance (93% / 100%).

MW07:  Hands down the best built case and most luxurious out there.  Zero complaints, other than it's a fingerprint magnet.  I'll probably try an oleophobic polish/spray and see how that works.

*CONTROLS*
MTW:  Takes some time to get the touch-based timing down, but once I did, it was pretty seamless.  I did pause a few times when trying to change tracks, but overall, I think it works.

MW07:  3 button scheme, no fuss, no muss.  Definitely easier and almost error proof.

*APP*
MTW:  Disconnected once randomly and wouldn't reconnect, even though I was still connected via BT and playing music.  Not a fan of the "dot" EQ control scheme.  However, I can still EQ to where I like it, although it took far longer than a standard EQ.  Good for the average Joe, but at this price, it'd be nice to have an EQ scheme geared more towards music aficionados.

MW07:  No app.  MTW Wins.

*CONNECTION*
MTW:  Rock solid.  Had ZERO drop outs between buds when using at the gym with my phone 30+ feet away (no walls).  Impressive range for TWEs, in fact, the best range of all I've tried.

MW07:  BT 4.2, so not quite apples to apples, but still has good range with no drop outs between buds.

*BATTERY*
MTW:  As advertised.  I didn't go the entire 4 hours, but I was over 3.5 and never got a battery warning.  Confident this can make it to 4+ hours.

MW07:  I can get a solid 3+ hours, but not quite the stated 3.5.  I listen at 40% volume on primarily an iPhone Xs Max.

*FIT*
MTW:  Very ergonomic fit (for me).  As I noted earlier, it's like the E8, but better.  I can roll with the standard medium tips and simply take out of the case and plop them in.  I don't have to fiddle around with the fit like I did with the E8.  Comfortable.  Wore them comfortably for 3.5+ hours.  Good isolation.

MW07:  A bit more comfortable than the MTW, but not my much.  Isolation is not as good, however.

*SOUND*
MTW:  Bold, beefy, big sound.  As a comparison, I get the same "impression" when listening to my Over-Ear HD1 Wireless or Crossfade Wireless 1 (w/ XL ear pads).  In-your-face brand of sound that is definitely on the warm side, but adjustable to your preferences with the app.  Bass is forceful and punchy, although it does not have quite the same definition the MW07 has.  They are definitely fun to listen to and work very well in the gym, commuting, or just rocking out.  Listening to these is like being in a club.

MW07:  Highly refined and transparent.  Detailed mids.  Textured bass.  Unmatched, technically, by any other TWE I've tried.  Listening to these is like being in an exclusive Country Club with Armand de Brignac in one hand and a cigar in the other.

*OVERALL*
I really like the MTW.  They are a different animal than the MW07, so I can see myself keeping both.  For me, it depends what I'm doing or what mood I'm in.  The MTW have an aggressiveness the MW07 doesn't.  The MW07, however, is more refined.  You can't go wrong with either of them.


----------



## Rickyearl

clerkpalmer said:


> PAIN IN THE A$$.



Does it just take forever (like the E8) or is the process wonky and error-prone?


----------



## nc8000

Rickyearl said:


> Does it just take forever (like the E8) or is the process wonky and error-prone?



It just takes forever, like 30 minutes per bud


----------



## clerkpalmer

Rickyearl said:


> Does it just take forever (like the E8) or is the process wonky and error-prone?


My answer would be both. Not exactly smooth. Both mine crashed mid update once.


----------



## WesennTony

turbobb said:


> I've only had slightly better success in that they replied but it took many follow up's for them to finally confirm that the V30 didn't have aptX LL support (this was when I first got the phone Dec '17). Between that, the jack issues with recording audio line-in and now screen banding, it's likely I'll forego LG with next upgrade but I'll defo want the Snapdragon 855 so I can take advantage of the TW Stereo profile.
> 
> In hindsight, I may not have paired the Mpow T5 correctly with the Note 9 thus didn't notice any improvement. Gotta retest that...
> 
> Is there anyone on this thread with Mavin Air-X (QCC3026) or T5 that has it paired with a Snapdragon 845?


Interesting I didn't know that V30 does not support Aptx LL. I don't want to give up LG V series though. It pairs exceptionally well with my wired earbuds and headphones.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

WesennTony said:


> Interesting I didn't know that V30 does not support Aptx LL. I don't want to give up LG V series though. It pairs exceptionally well with my wired earbuds and headphones.



Forgive my ignorance but what's the benefit of LL over the regular? I didn't use BT much when I had a v30 but I don't recall any issues with video lag.


----------



## WesennTony

SomeGuyDude said:


> Forgive my ignorance but what's the benefit of LL over the regular? I didn't use BT much when I had a v30 but I don't recall any issues with video lag.


I don't know either. That's why I didn't notice it without aptx LL support. I guess if somebody wants to pair it with a BT receiver, audio sync may be an issue without aptx LL.


----------



## albau

SomeGuyDude said:


> Forgive my ignorance but what's the benefit of LL over the regular? I didn't use BT much when I had a v30 but I don't recall any issues with video lag.


LL means Low Latency, to avoid audio delay when watching video at the expense of throughput (affects SQ).


----------



## albau

hifi80sman said:


> *CONTROLS*
> MTW: Takes some time to get the touch-based timing down, but once I did, it was pretty seamless. I did pause a few times when trying to change tracks, but overall, I think it works.
> 
> MW07: 3 button scheme, no fuss, no muss. Definitely easier and almost error proof.


Touch controls had a lot to do as to why I ditched E8. Agree on MW07 buttons but, IMO, 65t has them better still.

And thanks for an excellent review!


----------



## nc8000

clerkpalmer said:


> My answer would be both. Not exactly smooth. Both mine crashed mid update once.



Mine went through both buds with no problems, just took a long time


----------



## kiwikozo (Jan 9, 2019)

clerkpalmer said:


> I have read several sources saying that AAC over android is different than AAC over iPhone.  AAC over iPhone is supposed to be superior. If you are using Android, I think aptx is probably the way to go but it’s interesting that the android phones seem to default to AAC.



My S8+ always defaults to aptX. When I change it to AAC it hates it and becomes buggy. The touch controls only work for me on the default aptX.
I think battery life would be better over AAC like it says on the earin website but I'm fine with the 3 ish hours battery I seem to get.

I don't use the M2s for longer than a 90 minute period anyway and they charge quickly.

I've been careless with the case - already have a couple of annoying scuffs from dropping it!


----------



## kiwikozo

nc8000 said:


> One odd thing with the Earin M2. When the battery reaches about 50% I get 2 beeps and playback stops and when I turn music on again the volume has been reduced. This has happened every time I have used them (6 times now). Other than this no problems what so ever. Anybody else get this ?



Since each earphone can be used independently they automatically switch "slaves" halfway so they drain at the same rate. This is why there is only 1 battery level displayed in the app. Very clever!


----------



## nc8000

kiwikozo said:


> Since each earphone can be used independently they automatically switch "slaves" halfway so they drain at the same rate. This is why there is only 1 battery level displayed in the app. Very clever!



Didn’t think of that. That would explain why the battery indicator suddenly shows more battery left after the switch, it probably show the battery of the current master unit


----------



## kiwikozo

nc8000 said:


> Didn’t think of that. That would explain why the battery indicator suddenly shows more battery left after the switch, it probably show the battery of the current master unit



Yes, definitely the same thing happens to me. Could make it difficult if you are trying to estimate for 3h+ endurance.


----------



## Luchyres

Ah, I am so sad. I was ready to pull the trigger on the Earins during the sale, but emailed to ask when they would restock the black. By the time they responded to me, I missed the opportunity to even get the white ones discounted. 

If anyone tries out the Black M-2s and decides not to keep them, let me know -  I'd be very interested to buy off of you if they're a good pair. 

Thanks!


----------



## korefuji

I did get the white Earin on discount, should be here by tomorrow. I do believe someone here, bought the black ones on Ebay New in Box


----------



## SomeGuyDude

kiwikozo said:


> Since each earphone can be used independently they automatically switch "slaves" halfway so they drain at the same rate. This is why there is only 1 battery level displayed in the app. Very clever!



That's clever for battery but REALLY poorly implemented if it means a guaranteed brief disconnect and interruption of playing.


----------



## jant71

Cleer wireless with the better Qualcomm 5124 and 10 hours playback and ambient mode... https://globenewswire.com/news-rele...DEBUTS-NEW-BLUETOOTH-WIRELESS-HEADPHONES.html

Of course they say right away for the headphone, QCC5124 with BT 5.0 and aptX. So apparently no aptX or AAC in the TWS model.


----------



## howdy

hifi80sman said:


> *MTW & MW07 Comparison, MTW Impressions*
> *
> CASE*
> MTW:  Attractive, not as large as I thought.  In between the size of the Bose and M&D.  Cloth finish is different, but I can appreciate that it won't show small scratches over time.  Magnetically closes, but I wish the hinge felt a bit more robust.  Still a nice case and in the upper end of all TWEs.  Charged the MTW overnight and case still green this morning.  Now I'm seeing the L / R battery life variance (93% / 100%).
> ...


Great review! And I could not agree more with everything you said. I still miss the MW07 and I would have kept if it weren't for the seal on my right ear.
Glad to see your liking them.


----------



## clerkpalmer

Strange that Qualcomm left AAC out of this chipset.


----------



## chinmie

kiwikozo said:


> The only issue is sometimes people can't see I have them in my ears since they're so compact.



my wife hates me when I'm using the M2, because it takes a while to realize that I'm wearing it in my ears and i didn't hear her talking 
with my other TWs are more tolerable because she can see them from a distance 



clerkpalmer said:


> Reminds of updating bragi dash years ago.  Hence, further evidence the M2 is 2+ year old tech.  Jabra can knock out an update in 5 minutes.



yes, the first time i update the M2, i thought there's something wrong and the process got stuck, especially after seeing how the jabra does update (faster, and have a blinking LED to tell us the process is running) 



jfvny said:


> Thanks for the comparison!
> Damn i'm even more tempted to get a pair of the Sabbats now. Tho I'd prob go for the newer E12 that uses ear tips.



the X12 is special because to my knowledge, other than the airpods and bose, there's no other that i know of that does open isolation type. the E12 is intriguing, partly because I've heard the X12's and i now trust the Sabbat's product. 

you might also consider the Mifo o5 as it has more solid case, larger battery charge, and better IPX protection. i got a better deal from shopee (cheaper than aliexpress) in my country. i see you from Singapore, so you should have shoppee too in your country


----------



## dweaver

hifi80sman said:


> *MTW & MW07 Comparison, MTW Impressions*
> *
> CASE*
> MTW:  Attractive, not as large as I thought.  In between the size of the Bose and M&D.  Cloth finish is different, but I can appreciate that it won't show small scratches over time.  Magnetically closes, but I wish the hinge felt a bit more robust.  Still a nice case and in the upper end of all TWEs.  Charged the MTW overnight and case still green this morning.  Now I'm seeing the L / R battery life variance (93% / 100%).
> ...


Great comparison and review! Damn it you make me want to try the MW07! .

I reviewed the Samsung N700NC and have to say physical buttons may not be as swanky and hitech as touch interfaces but they are a darned sight easier to manage...


----------



## kiwikozo

SomeGuyDude said:


> That's clever for battery but REALLY poorly implemented if it means a guaranteed brief disconnect and interruption of playing.



It could have / could be solved by displaying individual battery percentages for each earbud. However, I forgive them since they're so tiny, they sound great, and the auto left/right is ridiculously convenient. 

A couple second auto pause 1.5 hours into listening isn't any trouble for me!


----------



## WesennTony

kiwikozo said:


> My S8+ always defaults to aptX. When I change it to AAC it hates it and becomes buggy. The touch controls only work for me on the default aptX.
> I think battery life would be better over AAC like it says on the earin website but I'm fine with the 3 ish hours battery I seem to get.
> 
> I don't use the M2s for longer than a 90 minute period anyway and they charge quickly.
> ...


So the touch control only works for default BT codec in Android phones, whatever it is.


----------



## kiwikozo

WesennTony said:


> So the touch control only works for default BT codec in Android phones, whatever it is.



That's okay for me as I'd only use aptX. Might be worth raising a support ticket with earin!


----------



## webvan

jant71 said:


> Cleer wireless with the better Qualcomm 5124 and 10 hours playback and ambient mode... https://globenewswire.com/news-rele...DEBUTS-NEW-BLUETOOTH-WIRELESS-HEADPHONES.html
> 
> Of course they say right away for the headphone, QCC5124 with BT 5.0 and aptX. So apparently no aptX or AAC in the TWS model.


It might still have AAC...It will be interesting to see how ANC works, has to be better than on the Sonys!


----------



## hifi80sman

dweaver said:


> Great comparison and review! Damn it you make me want to try the MW07! .
> 
> I reviewed the Samsung N700NC and have to say physical buttons may not be as swanky and hitech as touch interfaces but they are a darned sight easier to manage...


I mean, if it comes down to paying the bills or the MW07, obviously, get the MW07. 

Physical buttons with good tactile feedback are definitely easier in most cases.  However, I do like touch controls as well, especially in an active setting.


----------



## MulberryMadness (Jan 9, 2019)

clerkpalmer said:


> Strange that Qualcomm left AAC out of this chipset.


Considering the multi-bil$ litigation with Apple, not surprising to me , AAC is Apple's prefered codec & is the enemy of Qualcomm's codecs.

qcc5124 supports AptX, AptX HD, and the newest Qual codec Aptx-Adaptive (must be a power saving feature, that toggles btw Aptx LL & aptx HD depending on source) iirc isn't LL more important for gaming vids? LL also is going to apply Iot, arrgh, can't remember that acronym for internet connected devices.

Seems Marvin Air-X, will be shortly joined by a 5100 series? with ANC, called Air-ANC.

5124 & 5121 have smallest package size of these SoC's.

Older release/indiego w/bigger qcc5120, has integrated cell phone case to hold/charge the earbuds. Looks kinda clunky/bulky, imho. btw, I see varta cp1424 battery of 85ma capacity, wonder why none of these TWE are shipping with the heavier, but longer lasting 120ma varta CP1624...and these are just standard Li-Ion, old tech...when will modified Li-rechargeable with greater energy density be put in the more $$$ versions of earbuds?

https://www.inceptivemind.com/anti-loss-wireless-earbuds/3185/

5125 seems the 'econo' model, 4ma more power draw, only 1 DSP, as compared to the others that have 2.
https://www.qualcomm.com/products/qcc5100-series

^haven't seen what fabrication process die these SoC's are being made at, we know Qualcomm is now on 7nm node for some of it's silicon, but what about these...if they are on less expensive, not bleeding edge expensive 7nm...or nxt yr 5nm, we could expect additional power saving in the future..the days of all day runtime are coming!

https://www.prweb.com/releases/air_...6_soc_showcases_at_ces_2019/prweb16009911.htm
"
Air-X is the result of the constant pursuit for the ultimate TrueWireless audio experience. With Mavin’s close collaboration with Qualcomm (QCC3026 SoC), Air-X surpassed many technical barriers and brought the ultimate audio experience to life. Mavin will build on this partnership and continue to integrate Qualcomm’s technology (Qualcomm QCC5124, QCC5121 and QCC3020 SoC ) into its future solutions based on user requirements (ex. Gaming, VR, Amazon AVS, ANC etc.)  
"

I did not send an email to the contact listed for the CES announcement, but sent to sales@Marvin question as to the Air-ANC, if it does have a 5100 series SoC in it, as opposed to the Air-X, mentioned at bottom of this link on their Chinese based website:

https://www.mavinlife.com/edcontent_d.php?lang=en&tb=1&id=9

"
Together with Qualcomm Technologies, Mavin has successfully developed the Air-X, with up to 10 hours of play time (up to 50 hours with pocket-sized charging case, 10 minutes quick charge for 1-hour play time) in a super light-weight design that weighs less than 4.5g per earbud. Air-X also features voice assistant (Siri, Google), call audio in both ears, Qualcomm® cVc™ noise reduction technology and *built-in ANC (Active Noise Cancellation, Air-ANC model only, it will be launched in the market on Q1 2019)* to support crystal clear voice call quality and premium audio experience to users."


----------



## Luchyres

hifi80sman said:


> I mean, if it comes down to paying the bills or the MW07, obviously, get the MW07.
> 
> Physical buttons with good tactile feedback are definitely easier in most cases.  However, I do like touch controls as well, especially in an active setting.




Not going to lie... I use a BlackBerry Key2 as my phone because I'm a sucker for tactile feedback and buttons -  I HATE typing on touchscreens so much that it is THE deciding factor when I buy a phone these days. 

However, I must admit, once I got used to the MTW touch controls, they were pretty decent any time that my fingers weren't sweaty/wet. I actually anticipated hating the touch controls, so the fact that I would have kept them if not for sound and battery niggles and the call quality (now fixed), means a lot to me in retrospect. I did have a little trouble "guessing" where to put my finger as I always assumed they were further forward/down in my ear (where they actually insert - whereas the touch surface sits a little further back in the ear).


----------



## kiwikozo

Luchyres said:


> Not going to lie... I use a BlackBerry Key2 as my phone because I'm a sucker for tactile feedback and buttons -  I HATE typing on touchscreens so much that it is THE deciding factor when I buy a phone these days.
> 
> However, I must admit, once I got used to the MTW touch controls, they were pretty decent any time that my fingers weren't sweaty/wet. I actually anticipated hating the touch controls, so the fact that I would have kept them if not for sound and battery niggles and the call quality (now fixed), means a lot to me in retrospect. I did have a little trouble "guessing" where to put my finger as I always assumed they were further forward/down in my ear (where they actually insert - whereas the touch surface sits a little further back in the ear).



Off topic but touchscreens are so much faster on mobile devices. If you use swiftkey as your keyboard I'm sure after a couple of months you will type faster and more accurately! 

There are so many better smartphone options than blackberry right now!!


----------



## Luchyres

kiwikozo said:


> Off topic but touchscreens are so much faster on mobile devices. If you use swiftkey as your keyboard I'm sure after a couple of months you will type faster and more accurately!
> 
> There are so many better smartphone options than blackberry right now!!


OT (sorry): Lol I appreciate your earnest desire to save me - but it's a quirk of mine I don't really want to change. However, just in case you didn't know - I am not using BBOS - The Key2 runs barely modified (additional security) Android 8.1.0, is plenty snappy specs wise (I don't game or even really watch video on my phone) and wipes the floor with most phones afa battery life. I also just bought my gf the Oneplus 6T and, in spite of allegations of spying, have eyed the p20 pro.  What I keep coming back to though, is that although I can type plenty fast on touchscreens, or just swiping on google keyboard - I hate it. The autocorrect or word choice, when it does mess up, drives me unreasonably nuts (yes I know they get better at learning you). In contrast, typing on a physical keyboard feels a bit like a game to me - how fast can I go to do the right combo KNOWING that if there's a typo it's on me. FWIW, I mainly use my phone for work, and am not a huge texter. 

On Topic: One of the things that I hope to see with the MW07 successor would be to essentially keep the design form factor (maybe slight modifications) and keep the buttons and beryllium drivers while updating to BT5.0 etc. That being said, the MTW surprised me - so maybe I'm ok with it...


----------



## SomeGuyDude

hifi80sman said:


> I mean, if it comes down to paying the bills or the MW07, obviously, get the MW07.
> 
> Physical buttons with good tactile feedback are definitely easier in most cases.  However, I do like touch controls as well, especially in an active setting.



Touch controls are good for a screen in front of you, not for a device sitting on the sides of your head that you'll be using while in motion. One of the _biggest_ issues I had with the e8 was that taking my shirt off or reaching over my head kept triggering the touch controls from my shoulders lightly brushing up against them. It'd either pause the music or turn on transparency mode, and that's not something you want happening in the middle of exercise. Not to mention trying to make volume adjustments on the fly is a PITA.

If you can see the display and aim at what you want like a cell phone, I heavily prefer the screen, but otherwise it's like trying to text on a modern smartphone with the phone hidden under a blanket. Impossible.


----------



## Tommy C

Rebranded Sabbat probably. 
Good price in Canadian dollars.  https://www.amazon.ca/OKCSC-Bluetooth-Waterproof-Headphones-Microphone/dp/B07FMY89RL


----------



## turbobb (Jan 9, 2019)

mikp said:


> i have not figured out how the qcc3026 true wireless works with my g7. Other than either l or r earbud can be connected to the phone and still have stereo. Think I read somewhere that truewireless is not working on the qualcomm aqnd needs phone updates.



So the scenario you described (either bud connected to source and whichever that is, acts as the master) is basic TW Stereo whereby we're trying to test TW Stereo Plus (each earbud connected directly to source)







The confusing this is that in the 3206 product page (https://www.qualcomm.com/products/qcc3026) and accompanying family line literature (https://www.qualcomm.com/media/documents/files/qcc30xx-series-product-brief.pdf) it does state that it supports TWS+. HOWEVER, every literature describing TWS+ mentions that it needs to be paired with the QCC5100 and 845 (and eventually the 855):
https://www.qualcomm.com/news/relea...truly-wireless-earbuds-and-hearables-its-next

The Mavin Air-X briefing here does mention TWS+:
https://www.audioxpress.com/news/ma...connection-based-on-qualcomm-qcc3026-platform

but when I read the pairing instructions, it sounds like it's the same for the MPow T5 (except I pair mine out of the case).

This 3026 briefing only mentions improved connectivity BETWEEN the buds:
https://www.qualcomm.com/news/relea...less-experiences-simpler-design-broader-range

So I'm beginning to think that the 3026 doesn't actually have TWS+ which would make sense since it was designed to be the cheaper alternative to the 5100:
https://venturebeat.com/2018/06/29/...s-phone-makers-bundle-truly-wireless-earbuds/

Maybe you can try the below since the G7 has the 845 (and this assumes you've previously already paired each bud to your phone and both the L and R buds show in your BT connection):
1) Make sure both buds are off and put only the L in the case and initiate pairing
2) On your phone connect to L (it won't actually repair since it's already paired)

Repeat the above for the R bud and see if you can get it to connect directly to your G7 instead of the L (NOTE: I do NOT know if this actually works since I didn't follow this process when I tested the T5 w/the Note 9 but am hoping to do that again soon).

EDIT: With my V30 (835) it'll only ever let me connect to either/or. As soon as I try to connect to the other, it'll disconnect the first.



SomeGuyDude said:


> Forgive my ignorance but what's the benefit of LL over the regular? I didn't use BT much when I had a v30 but I don't recall any issues with video lag.


I see you got your answer already but in my testing and use, lag is definitely reduced between LL and regular aptX and is especially noticeable w/videos (more Netflix and not so much YouTube since that often has a lot of lag) and FPS on my PC and mobile devices. For regular aptX, you won't really notice it unless your specifically looking for it. I also have my audio setup where I can listen to the source through headphones and each codec so I can tell exactly how much delay there is for each one.


----------



## Churchill Wu

Did anyone else picture a slimmer case for the Klipsch t5 when the first images surfaced? This looks a little thick and not really like a Zippo!


----------



## Luchyres

Churchill Wu said:


> Did anyone else picture a slimmer case for the Klipsch t5 when the first images surfaced? This looks a little thick and not really like a Zippo!



I knew the comparisons to a zippo case were stretching the reality a lot - it does kiiiiiinda look like it in profile, but I really feel some journalists took that as the idea and ran with it - but especially with the rendering of the actual earbud - they looked way too beefy to fit any dimension in a Zippo case.... Not going to lie, on the whole, this CES was not very interesting for True Wireless (if someone saw something that really got them excited, let me know! I love being wrong).


----------



## mikp

turbobb said:


> So the scenario you described (either bud connected to source and whichever that is, acts as the master) is basic TW Stereo whereby we're trying to test TW Stereo Plus (each earbud connected directly to source)
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I remember testing that when I got it, I think the 3026 is basic tws then. Either bud can be master, and I think it switches auto, since sometimes I see it connected as r or l. Same thing on my hiby r3 and g7. 

I will also be getting a set with 5100 series with apt-x hd, just waiting for something to be launched.


----------



## jfvny

chinmie said:


> the X12 is special because to my knowledge, other than the airpods and bose, there's no other that i know of that does open isolation type. the E12 is intriguing, partly because I've heard the X12's and i now trust the Sabbat's product.
> 
> you might also consider the Mifo o5 as it has more solid case, larger battery charge, and better IPX protection. i got a better deal from shopee (cheaper than aliexpress) in my country. i see you from Singapore, so you should have shoppee too in your country


How would you compare the sound of the Mifo O5 and the Sabbat X12? 

Tbh I'm slightly more interested in the Sabbat for their sound quality (the E12 is _supposedly _better than the X12 from the few reviews i've found) and flat physical profile (for sleeping with); my Havit G1 already works perfectly for runs and such. Also the O5 and E12 are at the same price currently on Lazada lol


----------



## chinmie

jfvny said:


> How would you compare the sound of the Mifo O5 and the Sabbat X12?
> 
> Tbh I'm slightly more interested in the Sabbat for their sound quality (the E12 is _supposedly _better than the X12 from the few reviews i've found) and flat physical profile (for sleeping with); my Havit G1 already works perfectly for runs and such. Also the O5 and E12 are at the same price currently on Lazada lol



they're not really apple to apple comparison because physically one is closed/noise isolating while one is open. Mifo has a warm and dark sound while still has good detail and not muddy on the treble. the x12 is balanced and more airy because of the open nature. if flatness is your main criteria, then the sabbat is a bit more flat than the o5, but not by much. also consider the E12 being an IEM, even if it's flat, slight push will still be felt on the silicone tips


----------



## SomeGuyDude

Churchill Wu said:


> Did anyone else picture a slimmer case for the Klipsch t5 when the first images surfaced? This looks a little thick and not really like a Zippo!



TBH it's fine by me. Who could POSSIBLY have expected Zippo dimensions? Hold up a Zippo lighter, hold up even a small TWE. There's no way in high holy hell the latter would fit into the former.


----------



## jfvny

chinmie said:


> they're not really apple to apple comparison because physically one is closed/noise isolating while one is open. Mifo has a warm and dark sound while still has good detail and not muddy on the treble. the x12 is balanced and more airy because of the open nature. if flatness is your main criteria, then the sabbat is a bit more flat than the o5, but not by much. also consider the E12 being an IEM, even if it's flat, slight push will still be felt on the silicone tips


btw there appears to be a Mifo O7 that has AAC support: https://m.post.naver.com/viewer/postView.nhn?volumeNo=17142225&memberNo=4605197


----------



## clerkpalmer

SomeGuyDude said:


> TBH it's fine by me. Who could POSSIBLY have expected Zippo dimensions? Hold up a Zippo lighter, hold up even a small TWE. There's no way in high holy hell the latter would fit into the former.


The fact that they plastered "Klipsch" over those the outside of those earbuds makes me Sad. I could never wear them.


----------



## webvan (Jan 10, 2019)

WesennTony said:


> I just received Havit G1 yesterday after 6-week shipment from Aliexpress. Don't have time to test them yet, but the manual states that they'll automatically shut down after 3mins without playing. So if you set the sleep timer in you phone, is that possible to shut down G1 automatically?
> 
> Yes I do the nap with Sabbat X12 pro on after the lunch. They're very comfortable and like G1, they shut down automatically.



The X12 are indeed comfortable and light but not to the point where you could sleep ON them, like you could with say the EarPods or the Qian 39. Apparently some manage to do that with the M2s too ?

As  a side note I used to wear the X12 by "tucking" them in behind a ridge at the back of my ear as that gave the impression of a more secure fit and more bass but I realized that it made them pretty "muddy" so now I just keep them "flat" and haven't had a problem while running with them like that.


----------



## Rickyearl (Jan 10, 2019)

Churchill Wu said:


> Did anyone else picture a slimmer case for the Klipsch t5 when the first images surfaced? This looks a little thick and not really like a Zippo!


I certainly did.  I also thought it would be more metallic.

The whole approach with the huge logo and retro font seems very mass-market and doesn’t appeal to me.  


The Earin M2 arrived yesterday but I got home too late to do much other than charge them.  Looks like they came with updated firmware though because I don’t see any place on the app to update them and the version number matches what is in the Earin FAQ for how to update them.


----------



## chinmie

webvan said:


> The X12 are indeed comfortable and light but not to the point where you could sleep ON them, like you could with say the EarPods or the Qian 39



i use it to sleep too 



jfvny said:


> btw there appears to be a Mifo O7 that has AAC support: https://m.post.naver.com/viewer/postView.nhn?volumeNo=17142225&memberNo=4605197



i think it's basically O5, but recolored and sold as O7 exclusively in Korea. all the specs, aac support, etc, both are the same


----------



## webvan

Yeah but do you sleep ON them ? I can't, just rams into my ear.
I just found out using an Android 9 phone that the X12 had AAC !


----------



## chinmie

webvan said:


> Yeah but do you sleep ON them ? I can't, just rams into my ear.
> I just found out using an Android 9 phone that the X12 had AAC !



yes, easily


----------



## jfvny

chinmie said:


> i think it's basically O5, but recolored and sold as O7 exclusively in Korea. all the specs, aac support, etc, both are the same


ahh i didn't know they had AAC


webvan said:


> I just found out using an Android 9 phone that the X12 had AAC !


This is also news to me!

Online shops need to post proper info on their products smh


----------



## srinivasvignesh

I looked at the codec my Note 8 was using with the RHA TrueConnect and it is using AAC. I would have to say that the RHA has pretty decent sound (in this category)


----------



## donedj

So a mini review of Sennheiser momentum true wireless.
I have been testing these for the last couple of weeks.
Sound is the best I heard of any Bluetooth headphone. Bar none. I haven't tried many but sounds is good. Punchy bass, clear highs, lush mids etc.

Very comfortable as well. At first I had some minor ear ache but twisting the left earpiece to a better fit fixed it all.

Good stuff ends here.

Compared to apple airpods which suck in sound quality and fit, they fall out of my ears in two steps, connectivity, battery life, ease of use, Sennheiser feels like their technology is stuck in 1990s.

Disappointed on that regard.

So today for my morning workout I got out and put on my mtw headphones and see only right one is working. I am like huh? Check the app and see right one has 19% battery while left has none. Weird. And they were in their case to be charged anyways.

The million dollar question is why the case battery did not last enough to charge the headphones, which had about 7 hours of use since full case and headphone charge.

The billion dollar question is how left ear can have no battery left while right is at 19%.

The airpods are best in the tech. Last with the case at least 24 hours. Immediate on and off. Impeccable connection and usability.

The tmw connects to the phone easily and sometimes when I take them off does not disconnect automatically. For true wireless the Sennheiser is not yet true. It is trying and has great sound quality and comfort going for it but in terms of battery life, ease of use, connectivity and functionality it just is nowhere near where it is supposed to be.

Bummer that they make other Bluetooth headphones especially on ear ones that have been in the market for many years where they could have had the know how.

Possibly I am returning these unless things get better somehow.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

clerkpalmer said:


> The fact that they plastered "Klipsch" over those the outside of those earbuds makes me Sad. I could never wear them.



Lotta y'all get really weird about logos. I do not understand it.


----------



## Pro-Jules

Anything cool emerge @ CES?


----------



## WesennTony

jfvny said:


> ahh i didn't know they had AAC
> This is also news to me!
> 
> Online shops need to post proper info on their products smh


The Sabbat X12 Pro uses AAC with my phone (LG V30), while G1 uses SBC


----------



## WesennTony

webvan said:


> Yeah but do you sleep ON them ? I can't, just rams into my ear.
> I just found out using an Android 9 phone that the X12 had AAC !


Yes and No. During the nap I use an un-used seat cushion as pillow, which happens to have  a big hole in the middle. So even I sleep on my side, there is no pressure on my ear. I don't use X12 pro for night sleep, though.


----------



## Churchill Wu

SomeGuyDude said:


> TBH it's fine by me. Who could POSSIBLY have expected Zippo dimensions? Hold up a Zippo lighter, hold up even a small TWE. There's no way in high holy hell the latter would fit into the former.



It's really just the thickness, I wouldn't mind it being taller or wider but thickness is what impacts pocketability most. I was hoping the earbuds would be inserted with the long sides in parallel to the case to minimize thickness.


----------



## webvan

WesennTony said:


> The Sabbat X12 Pro uses AAC with my phone (LG V30), while G1 uses SBC


By default it uses SBC though, which is a bit unfortunate because many people probably don't check.


----------



## kiwikozo

donedj said:


> The airpods are best in the tech. Last with the case at least 24 hours. Immediate on and off. Impeccable connection and usability.



The airpods sound terrible and the sound isolation is non-existent.

Yes the Sennheiser MTW have connectivity/charging issues which are supposedly going to be fixed with a firmware update but there are other true wireless headphones which are superior to airpods - MW07, earin M2, Jabra 65t, RHA True Connect (if you like that tampon-esque look).


----------



## korefuji

Can someone tell me the latest firmware version for the Earin M-2 it looks like mine were factory updated to the latest, as there is no firmware update. I dont see firmware update option either, so I'm assuming it's already done?


----------



## Luchyres

SomeGuyDude said:


> Lotta y'all get really weird about logos. I do not understand it.



I'm a little weird about logos - partially in that for companies like Nike or other brands, we've somehow been duped into playing a "keeping up with the Joneses" game of representation/free advertising (we've bought in hook, line, and sinker that the brands we associate with are WHO we are - e.g. Apple, Beats, SoulCycle, Adidas etc) I have started to resent this as a situation where individuals are voluntarily providing free advertising, often to companies that they only like because they think they should or they cost a good amount. I know I tend to overestimate the degree to which this is actually exploitative (people aren't really being hurt per se), but I do view it as something that's just a little backward in modern culture. Personally, the brands that appeal to me the most are those that make quality products and don't label or do big graphics etc. For example, although they are pricey and bougie, I like Outlier's pants  - they form the foundation of my minimalist wardrobe. 

Now, the Klipsch earbuds in particular - I'm not opposed to a company including an identifying/recognizable symbol on TW earbuds - in some cases, a little design logo can add to the aesthetic. My issue with the Klipsch one is that, subjectively, I think they look large and boxy and that is exacerbated by what I consider to be one of the most garishly unattractive logos I've seen on an electronic. In addition, the logo writing appears to be gold contrasting with black - and despite being from Steeler country - not my cup of tea and makes the garish logo *pop* that much more. 

If the audio quality was there for the price..... I'd maaaybe think about it. But otherwise, the logo, it's prominence, and the size of these earbuds means that I may be unfairly not giving them a chance.


----------



## Rickyearl

SomeGuyDude said:


> Lotta y'all get really weird about logos. I do not understand it.



Not just the logo, the overall design concept, but the logo is part of it.  They look cheap - like they should be in a blister pack at the grocery store checkout.  The whole approach seems to scream "adequate sound for the guy who doesn't give a crap!"


----------



## nc8000

korefuji said:


> Can someone tell me the latest firmware version for the Earin M-2 it looks like mine were factory updated to the latest, as there is no firmware update. I dont see firmware update option either, so I'm assuming it's already done?



CSR 2.0.147 NXP 01.06


----------



## korefuji

nc8000 said:


> CSR 2.0.147 NXP 01.06


Many thanks, looks like it was updated


----------



## WesennTony

webvan said:


> By default it uses SBC though, which is a bit unfortunate because many people probably don't check.


In Android world, it is really phone-specific which codec is chosen as system default. In my phone, it uses AAC by default to X12 pro.


----------



## Rickyearl (Jan 10, 2019)

Just tried to compare Earins to TMW.  TMW have been sitting in my briefcase pocket "sideways" (the TWM case in a pocket so that the bottom of the TMW case is touching the side of the briefcase) since about 10pm last night, when both were fully charged.  it's currently 11am, and the case and TMWs are both totally dead.

So that's a consistent issue.  I'd bet if I left them with the case sitting "upright" they'd still be pretty much fully charged.

Oh, and this might be important to know if you're carrying them - the Earin M2 case is highly magnetic on the bottom.  See pic.


----------



## n20nine

Rickyearl said:


> Just tried to compare Earins to TMW.  TMW have been sitting in my briefcase pocket "sideways" (the TWM case in a pocket so that the bottom of the TMW case is touching the side of the briefcase) since about 10pm last night, when both were fully charged.  it's currently 11am, and the case and TMWs are both totally dead.
> 
> So that's a consistent issue.  I'd bet if I left them with the case sitting "upright" they'd still be pretty much fully charged.



Same here. Really annoyed. Passed my 30 day window to return but going to push them to take it back.


----------



## Boreaquis

How do you check if it's actually using AAC?

Both the Sabbat X12 and the Havit I93 have AAC listed in their specifications, but I haven't actually tested if it's true.


----------



## Rickyearl (Jan 10, 2019)

So the actual magnet on the Earin M2 case is on the very bottom of the "inside" part of the case - the part that holds the actual IEMs.  It makes contact with the bottom and that's the "magnetic seal."  If you open the case, you can stick a paperclip on the outside and it will travel up and down the outside of the case as you raise and lower the inside part.


----------



## WesennTony

Boreaquis said:


> How do you check if it's actually using AAC?
> 
> Both the Sabbat X12 and the Havit I93 have AAC listed in their specifications, but I haven't actually tested if it's true.


It shows in Developer options. If you haven't enabled the Developer options yet, you can just google it.


----------



## hifi80sman

SomeGuyDude said:


> Touch controls are good for a screen in front of you, not for a device sitting on the sides of your head that you'll be using while in motion. One of the _biggest_ issues I had with the e8 was that taking my shirt off or reaching over my head kept triggering the touch controls from my shoulders lightly brushing up against them. It'd either pause the music or turn on transparency mode, and that's not something you want happening in the middle of exercise. Not to mention trying to make volume adjustments on the fly is a PITA.
> 
> If you can see the display and aim at what you want like a cell phone, I heavily prefer the screen, but otherwise it's like trying to text on a modern smartphone with the phone hidden under a blanket. Impossible.


I agree it's kind of hit or miss, not only based on what you're doing, but also the manner in which the physical controls are activated.  For instance, when jogging, I find I can tap on the earbuds easier than physical controls with top mounted buttons that I have to press downward vs. inward.  I find the jostling of my strides moves my arm up and down too much whilst also exerting additional downward force, so I sometimes have to re-sit/seal the earbud.  In most other cases, physical controls are better, but I do like the novelty of touch controls and just fewer mechanical elements in general.


----------



## clerkpalmer

If anyone is interested in a light used RHA true connect for a great price, pm me.


----------



## webvan

WesennTony said:


> It shows in Developer options. If you haven't enabled the Developer options yet, you can just google it.


No longer necessary in Android Pie, just directly to the Bluetooth options.

The G1 does NOT have AAC unlike what they claim in the specs.


----------



## korefuji

webvan said:


> No longer necessary in Android Pie, just directly to the Bluetooth options.
> 
> The G1 does NOT have AAC unlike what they claim in the specs.



On iPhone I thought it was SBC and AAC, at least according to someone who has them in this thread


----------



## Boreaquis

WesennTony said:


> It shows in Developer options. If you haven't enabled the Developer options yet, you can just google it.



Thanks. I'd actually looked at that screen earlier, I just didn't realise that it updated to show the current connection.

The Sabbat X12 was indeed using AAC by default on my Galaxy S8. It thing has a very impressive spec sheet for less than $40.

The Havit I93 seems to only support SBC, but it does just fine for my commutes still.

Spotted the Sabbat E12 with wireless charging on AliExpress, but even if it wasn't twice the price of the X12 I don't want to get in the habit of collecting a pile of TWSes


----------



## Rickyearl

Comparing the M2 to the MTW without sound comparison while the MTWs charge:

1. Case.  Earin clearly wins.  The case is about 1/3 longer, but the round cylinder form factor is really nice - easier to find space for.  Plus the MTW has all those well-documented charging "quirks and features" (to quote Doug DeMuro) that make it unreliable. The Earin case just seems better all around - I like the machined aluminum look better than the burlap thing, the whole "cradle" thing seems better engineered than the simple holes on the MTW case, there are 3 lights to indicate charge on the case and separate ones on the inside for each IEM, on and on.

The MTW has USBC, which is a big plus.  And the Earin magnetic bottom is concerning.  The MTW case is also magnetic enough to hold a paperclip near the clasp, but I think that's less likely to come in contact with something problematic than the entire quarter-sized bottom of the Earin case's cylinder.  But those are the only advantages on the case.

2.  Fit/finish of IEMs.  The Earins are tiny.  In fact, this makes them a bit hard to fit properly compared to the MTWs, which go into my ears perfectly as if made for them.  You can put the M2s in wrong pretty easily because they fit anywhere.  I can see that for some people that would be an advantage - I can't see anyone having fit problems with these like the problems I have had with the E8.  The M2s also seem more "high-tech" due to the size and shape - it just make them look less plasticky and more advanced.  Both are light (they feel about the same to my hands), but the lightness of the MTW combined with the plain matte black plastic makes them seem a little cheap in comparison.

3. App.  The Earin app is weird.  It has "gain" - which is just volume and thus kind of useless (just use the buttons on the phone) and balance but no EQ.  It also only tells you the power level of the master IEM, not both, and does so by filling up  a circle rather than giving you a percentage.  The presentation is incredibly minimalistic and "homemade" looking - you either like that or not.  The transparency setting part is fantastic, though it has a volume adjustment for the ambient sound, as well as a "Near/Far" adjustment. It also allows you to use it in "Auto" where it automatically engages when the music stops but is otherwise off.  The "Near/Far" thing is amazing - I can talk to my wife but still not hear the TV (or vice-versa! ).

The MTW app has an EQ.  It's kind of goofy but better than nothing.  But transparency is wonky (never got it to work while music plays) and the battery levels engender angst due to their granularity.  

4.  Connection.  MTW is rock-solid.  I've never had a drop or cutout.  Never had an issue connecting to phone or app.  Just put them in and hear "connected."  It's kind of cumbersome to switch devices if both are in the same room (have to put them in pairing mode and pair with the second device each time), but other than that this aspect is really solid.

Earin's connection process is a PITA.  Horrible.  The app needs to see each IEM connected separately to work.  But when the IEMs are running only one or the other is "connected" to the phone and the other is a "slave."   Thus if either one is out of the case, the phone connects to that one and disconnects from the other one.  So I can only get the app to work when both the IEMs are in the case - the only time I can connect both to the phone.  The IEMs themselves work fine, but if I want to use transparency mode or balance I have to put them in the case, open the app, then remove them from the case with the app running.  Then if I switch out of the app and back in I have to restart the whole process.  Thank goodness I didn't have to update the firmware.  I haven't even tried connecting them to a second device - the thought exhausts me.

More once the MTWs are charged up.


----------



## robcf3

Have been a long-time lurker of this thread, and have had brief experiences with true wireless earbuds before (got launch airpods, had Jabra 65t Active for a week or so but my pair had issues). My neckbuds have died on me so looking to get a pair of these. They will likely become my daily driver, and I really use headphones almost constantly whilst commuting and working, so they (and their case) need to be pretty sturdy and ideally not pick up scuffs easily. USB-C, decent hear-through mode (wasn't super impressed by Jabra's), and maybe sweat/water resistant or at least okay to wear running are also preferred. Sound quality obv a key requisite too but I'm streaming from Spotify so need to bear that in mind. Other headphones are my QC35s - was looking to upgrade these, but could kill two birds with one stone and just get one of these at the top of my budget.

Are there any pairs which do fit any/all of these requirements? I've outlined the pairs I've been looking at below - if I'm wrong about any of these, or if I'm missing a really good pair, please let me know!

Sennheiser: apparently best sound, stacked with features, USB-C etc, but very expensive and have read numerous QC (or software?) issues on the internet. Also don't seem that versatile from images - will the fabric case hold up and keep its colour and shape (within reasonable limits) in the long-term?
MW07: read reviews from best sound to not actually that good - probably need to try them out, but otherwise seem really cool even if they aren't stacked with features. Case looks amazing but is there a way to stop it getting scratched to hell within seconds? Would love to justify getting either this pair or the Sennheisers but need some reassurance haha

Earin M2: missed the sale :/ look pretty cool bar micro-usb and the fact it's not in stock in black currently.
Jabra Elite Active 65t: tried these before, think I had a faulty pair but had a weird hiss on one of the earbuds. Otherwise sound quality was good and super versatile, but controls a bit finicky and case is pretty bad (micro-usb, not magnetic).
RHA Trueconnect: out of stock everywhere, no hear-through or app, limited codecs, connection issues cited - will probably be updated or improved in next batch so may as well wait, but generally quite like their design and qualities.
IconX: basically impossible to source in the UK for a reasonable price, also battery life puts me off.
Sony and B&O: connection issues, don't seem worth the price.

Thanks!


----------



## clerkpalmer

robcf3 said:


> Have been a long-time lurker of this thread, and have had brief experiences with true wireless earbuds before (got launch airpods, had Jabra 65t Active for a week or so but my pair had issues). My neckbuds have died on me so looking to get a pair of these. They will likely become my daily driver, and I really use headphones almost constantly whilst commuting and working, so they (and their case) need to be pretty sturdy and ideally not pick up scuffs easily. USB-C, decent hear-through mode (wasn't super impressed by Jabra's), and maybe sweat/water resistant or at least okay to wear running are also preferred. Sound quality obv a key requisite too but I'm streaming from Spotify so need to bear that in mind. Other headphones are my QC35s - was looking to upgrade these, but could kill two birds with one stone and just get one of these at the top of my budget.
> 
> Are there any pairs which do fit any/all of these requirements? I've outlined the pairs I've been looking at below - if I'm wrong about any of these, or if I'm missing a really good pair, please let me know!
> 
> ...



Both the MTW and MW07 meet your criteria and if you are looking for a true daily driver to replace your cans. I would put the true connect and m2 tied for 3rd place. M2 is overpriced at 250 but a good deal at 175.  MTW is probably the best all arounder at the moment.  I decided today I'm going to roll with both the MW07 and the MTW. They are best and I need the best. 

As for the mw07 case, just keep it in the small pouch. I can confirm it will scratch immediately upon contact with anything other than air. Good luck.


----------



## robcf3 (Jan 10, 2019)

clerkpalmer said:


> Both the MTW and MW07 meet your criteria and if you are looking for a true daily driver to replace your cans. I would put the true connect and m2 tied for 3rd place. M2 is overpriced at 250 but a good deal at 175.  MTW is probably the best all arounder at the moment.  I decided today I'm going to roll with both the MW07 and the MTW. They are best and I need the best.
> 
> As for the mw07 case, just keep it in the small pouch. I can confirm it will scratch immediately upon contact with anything other than air. Good luck.



Thanks for this - if you had to choose only one of MW07 or MTW, what would you go for? Also what do you use as a case for the MW07s? Had a look and unsurprisingly nothing bespoke, but any ideas of stuff I could easily source would probably impact my decision.

EDIT: also the best colour for them - hard to tell without seeing them in person!


----------



## SomeGuyDude

Luchyres said:


> I'm a little weird about logos - partially in that for companies like Nike or other brands, we've somehow been duped into playing a "keeping up with the Joneses" game of representation/free advertising (we've bought in hook, line, and sinker that the brands we associate with are WHO we are - e.g. Apple, Beats, SoulCycle, Adidas etc) I have started to resent this as a situation where individuals are voluntarily providing free advertising, often to companies that they only like because they think they should or they cost a good amount. I know I tend to overestimate the degree to which this is actually exploitative (people aren't really being hurt per se), but I do view it as something that's just a little backward in modern culture. Personally, the brands that appeal to me the most are those that make quality products and don't label or do big graphics etc. For example, although they are pricey and bougie, I like Outlier's pants  - they form the foundation of my minimalist wardrobe.
> 
> Now, the Klipsch earbuds in particular - I'm not opposed to a company including an identifying/recognizable symbol on TW earbuds - in some cases, a little design logo can add to the aesthetic. My issue with the Klipsch one is that, subjectively, I think they look large and boxy and that is exacerbated by what I consider to be one of the most garishly unattractive logos I've seen on an electronic. In addition, the logo writing appears to be gold contrasting with black - and despite being from Steeler country - not my cup of tea and makes the garish logo *pop* that much more.
> 
> If the audio quality was there for the price..... I'd maaaybe think about it. But otherwise, the logo, it's prominence, and the size of these earbuds means that I may be unfairly not giving them a chance.



Er... I think it's kind of the opposite here. People on here are ridiculously avoiding products because of the branding. That's not any better, it's still letting the "trendiness" of a product affect your decision. Besides, they're TWEs, not massive full-size cans. People are talking like the logos are these big four-foot billboards stapled to your head. It's bizarre. 

Everyone seems to be taking their "I like _quality_ products" to such an insane degree that there's a "pride" in not having logos or whatever on themselves. Who cares? Why does everything need to be a political statement? I want to listen to music, **** do I care if there's a logo slapped on them? Hell I use my Project Rocks and they're so branded and logo-ified it's downright obnoxious, but they're also the best gym headphones I've had so I'm not going to avoid them. 

Then again I can't get too grumpy since we're both in Yinzer country so I gotta cut you some slack, LOL. Might see ya at Music to My Ear someday.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

robcf3 said:


> Thanks for this - if you had to choose only one of MW07 or MTW, what would you go for? Also what do you use as a case for the MW07s? Had a look and unsurprisingly nothing bespoke, but any ideas of stuff I could easily source would probably impact my decision.
> 
> EDIT: also the best colour for them - hard to tell without seeing them in person!



Zero experience with the MTW but IMO the Grey Tarazzo is the best MW07 color. I love my Tortoiseshell, though.


----------



## Rickyearl

So...I was listening to the Earins on Spotify while the MTWs charged away.  For fun I turned the MTW case onto its side and, sure enough, the Earins stopped and music started playing on the right MTW in the case, but not the left.  Turned the MTW case right-side up and still playing.  Removed and reseated the right MTW in the case, no change.  Removed them both and reseated them, and they stopped and the Earins started.  Then turned the MTW case upside down - same thing happened.  I played with it some more and found it doesn't happen with a gentle turn but a quick turn (or a drop) will do it.  So will a shake.

Thus it's fair to say that the MTWs can fairly easily disconnect from their case when not sitting still right-side up on a flat surface.  Worse, once disconnected they don't automatically "notice" and reconnect to the case when they go back to being right-side up.  Both of them have to be completely removed and reseated.

I know nothing about firmware but the "notice" thing seems fixable.


----------



## clerkpalmer

robcf3 said:


> Thanks for this - if you had to choose only one of MW07 or MTW, what would you go for? Also what do you use as a case for the MW07s? Had a look and unsurprisingly nothing bespoke, but any ideas of stuff I could easily source would probably impact my decision.
> 
> EDIT: also the best colour for them - hard to tell without seeing them in person!


Me personally MW07 because I can live with the battery life and I have numerous other headphones for situations where I need more than 2.5 hours. But if the question was what pair would you buy if you really only planned on using 1 headphone, I would lean to the MTW.


----------



## Rickyearl

OK, M


Rickyearl said:


> Comparing the M2 to the MTW without sound comparison while the MTWs charge:
> 
> 1. Case.  Earin clearly wins.  The case is about 1/3 longer, but the round cylinder form factor is really nice - easier to find space for.  Plus the MTW has all those well-documented charging "quirks and features" (to quote Doug DeMuro) that make it unreliable. The Earin case just seems better all around - I like the machined aluminum look better than the burlap thing, the whole "cradle" thing seems better engineered than the simple holes on the MTW case, there are 3 lights to indicate charge on the case and separate ones on the inside for each IEM, on and on.
> 
> ...




OK, they are charged (pretty fast from totally dead, actually - 2 hrs or so).  So onward

5. Transparency/Ambient/Call Quality.  Not unexpectedly, Earin wins hands down.  The transparency mode just works, and the "Auto" thing above is great.  I could wear them all day and hear just fine, or not, if I wanted.  Sounds are a bit tinny, but not too bad.  I can talk on a separate speakerphone about 3 feet away with total clarity.  Really impressive.  Calls sound better to the other side than when I use the iphone itself.

The MTW transparency is just OK by comparison.  Much tinnier and much less detailed.  Also, there isn't any way to hear sounds farther away unless they're really loud.  Call quality is about the same as most average IEMs with microphones in the cords.  Everyone can tell and in a loud area it's kind of a pain.

6. Comfort.  Earins are _really_ comfortable.  You forget about them they're so small.  I don't see an issue wearing them for hours and hours.  No fatigue at all.  MTWs also fit me nice, but I never forgot they were there.  After 2-3 hours I need to take them out and kind of give the ear canals a break from the fit.  Not bad, but nothing like the Earins.

7. Sound.  Well, what can I say?  I really liked the Earins for the 2+ hours straight I just listened to them.  I got into them and was really enjoying the sound.  Then I put in the MTWs and it was like night and day - like someone removed a piece of tape from the speaker.  The MTW is better in every way I can thing of - clearer, more detailed, more separation, wider soundstage, better highs, better mids, tighter bass, better everything.  It was amazing all over again like it was when I put them in the first time.  Now the Earins sound cheap and muddy.  

So that's my $0.02.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

clerkpalmer said:


> Me personally MW07 because I can live with the battery life and I have numerous other headphones for situations where I need more than 2.5 hours. But if the question was what pair would you buy if you really only planned on using 1 headphone, I would lean to the MTW.



I definitely do feel like the MW07 has a fairly... limited market.


----------



## clerkpalmer

SomeGuyDude said:


> I definitely do feel like the MW07 has a fairly... limited market.



If they could get the battery up to 3.5 it would make a world of difference. It's pretty amazing however that we live in a world where a set of true wireless earphones outperform good quality wired earphones. You and I both agree on that.


----------



## hifi80sman

SomeGuyDude said:


> Lotta y'all get really weird about logos. I do not understand it.


Earbuds and headphones, I don't care about logos.  Color, yes, logos, no.

However, clothing, different story.  Don't want to be walking around with TOMMY HILFIGER all over the place.  It's like, Tommy, get over yourself.


----------



## hifi80sman

kiwikozo said:


> The airpods sound terrible and the sound isolation is non-existent.
> 
> Yes the Sennheiser MTW have connectivity/charging issues which are supposedly going to be fixed with a firmware update but there are other true wireless headphones which are superior to airpods - MW07, earin M2, Jabra 65t, RHA True Connect (if you like that tampon-esque look).


If you don't care about sound, the AirPods are right up your alley.

I haven't had ANY connection issues with my MTW.  No L/R drop outs, distance is flat out impressive for a TWE, but I do notice the L earbud is at 93% or 94% out of the charger (overnight).  Looking forward to the updates and glad they were actually announced.  Gotta give Sennheiser credit.


----------



## Tommy C

Anyone tried the TFZ X1 Bluetooth IEM?
They are currently on MassDrop.


----------



## clerkpalmer

Tommy C said:


> Anyone tried the TFZ X1 Bluetooth IEM?
> They are currently on MassDrop.



They are about the same price on AliExpress and you don't have to wait to March.


----------



## jfvny (Jan 10, 2019)

Tommy C said:


> Anyone tried the TFZ X1 Bluetooth IEM?
> They are currently on MassDrop.


they're basically a rebranded Mifo O5, so you can see some of the reviews about those in this thread


----------



## Luchyres

SomeGuyDude said:


> Er... I think it's kind of the opposite here. People on here are ridiculously avoiding products because of the branding. That's not any better, it's still letting the "trendiness" of a product affect your decision. Besides, they're TWEs, not massive full-size cans. People are talking like the logos are these big four-foot billboards stapled to your head. It's bizarre.
> 
> Everyone seems to be taking their "I like _quality_ products" to such an insane degree that there's a "pride" in not having logos or whatever on themselves. Who cares? Why does everything need to be a political statement? I want to listen to music, **** do I care if there's a logo slapped on them? Hell I use my Project Rocks and they're so branded and logo-ified it's downright obnoxious, but they're also the best gym headphones I've had so I'm not going to avoid them.
> 
> Then again I can't get too grumpy since we're both in Yinzer country so I gotta cut you some slack, LOL. Might see ya at Music to My Ear someday.



You're quite right that my perspective on logos isn't what's happening here in many cases - just my personal reason for avoiding anything that I feel either tries to sell you by associating with the brand more than by producing a quality product (subjective opinion: Nike, Apple, SUPREME) or that puts excessively large/ugly logos (though, at that point it's more of an aesthetic thing - I just don't like how the Klipsch look, and that does affect whether I want to wear them). It makes sense that may not be as much of a deal to some (such as yourself). Given the choice, all things being equal, I'll always pick something that doesn't have a large logo on it. For me, I wouldn't say it's a political statement, just personal preference. Different folks, different strokes though.

To the extent I avoid trendy things, it's not because of the branding/logo in and of itself, but more if I feel the trendiness isn't justified by the quality of the product. I'm not avoiding it because it's trendy, but I don't value popularity/sales as a measure of the quality of the product.  I guess what I'm saying is I don't feel like I take particular pride in avoiding logos, I just don't like them in many cases - but that's due to my hangups as explained above. If you love the Project Rocks (or the Klipsch) I am 100% for it - and I hope they're successful if people like their sound, but if I was in the room when they designed the successor, I'd say "ehhhhhh, maybe without the gold and make the logo smaller." 

FWIW, I think the MW07 are the most aesthetically pleasing of the TWES, and I don't love the Sennheiser logo on the MTW - but it definitely wouldn't have kept me from keeping them (that would be last on the list after  SQ, Comfort, Connection, Battery etc.). 

I had a gut feeling you were from my neck of the woods, maybe we will run into one another one day!


----------



## RunsWithScissors

webvan said:


> Thanks for the heads up, too bad indeed about the single size. The original True Wireless Comply were way too small for me with the Jabra Sport Elite and apparently the True Grip aren't any better for many people.


I emailed Comply support to inquire if there were any plans to offer Comply foam tips for the Jabra Elite 65t in any other sizes and unfortunately they replied no.

Comply Support response excerpt:
"Unfortunately, the tips provided during our testing didn't pass the test for compatibility due to users having the tips fall off of the device. 
These tips are very unique, and we do not plan to release different size tips for it."

bummer...


----------



## SomeGuyDude

hifi80sman said:


> Earbuds and headphones, I don't care about logos.  Color, yes, logos, no.
> 
> However, clothing, different story.  Don't want to be walking around with TOMMY HILFIGER all over the place.  It's like, Tommy, get over yourself.



The only logos I'll get on my clothing are bands and the like. Stuff I buy because I support whatever is drawn all over my chest. Headphones I rarely even notice.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

Luchyres said:


> FWIW, I think the MW07 are the most aesthetically pleasing of the TWES, and I don't love the Sennheiser logo on the MTW - but it definitely wouldn't have kept me from keeping them (that would be last on the list after  SQ, Comfort, Connection, Battery etc.).



Funny story. I've had tons of TWEs so far, Sony/Jabra/M&D/Bose/Beoplay, and the MW07 is the only one that caused someone to stop me and ask what they were. They really are pretty as hell.


----------



## kiwikozo (Jan 10, 2019)

Rickyearl said:


> So I can only get the app to work when both the IEMs are in the case - the only time I can connect both to the phone.  The IEMs themselves work fine, but if I want to use transparency mode or balance I have to put them in the case, open the app, then remove them from the case with the app running.



I don't have this issue on android (s8+). The app always connects to the M2's. Maybe try reinstalling the app, disconnecting the earphones and pairing them to your phone individually one by one again?

My phone only connected to the Sennheiser MTW app 10% of the time, had to restart headphones/phone several times.




Rickyearl said:


> OK, M
> 
> 7. Sound.  Well, what can I say?  I really liked the Earins for the 2+ hours straight I just listened to them.  I got into them and was really enjoying the sound.  Then I put in the MTWs and it was like night and day - like someone removed a piece of tape from the speaker.  The MTW is better in every way I can thing of - clearer, more detailed, more separation, wider soundstage, better highs, better mids, tighter bass, better everything.  It was amazing all over again like it was when I put them in the first time.  Now the Earins sound cheap and muddy.
> 
> So that's my $0.02.



I didn't notice a difference that great - maybe aptX vs aac has a large effect on the M2's performance? I do miss the clarity of the MTW, but not the comfort or the case. 

I sort of wish I bought the white M2's now. They're so convenient to carry around everywhere even shopping, it would be easier if others could see there was something  earin


----------



## korefuji

spinfit 100 tips were really a tight fit with the earin m2, with no real discernible difference in sound, so I stuck to the comply tips. Pairing was actually not very difficult, took me all of 2 minutes to do. The app leaves much to be desired tho.


----------



## kiwikozo

korefuji said:


> spinfit 100 tips were really a tight fit with the earin m2, with no real discernible difference in sound, so I stuck to the comply tips. Pairing was actually not very difficult, took me all of 2 minutes to do. The app leaves much to be desired tho.



cp100 or cp100z? Which size tips did you try?


----------



## korefuji

cp100 medium tips


----------



## kiwikozo

korefuji said:


> cp100 medium tips



Ah mine are on the way from the US, but do they still fit and charge in the case? I find silicon more comfortable vs comply.


----------



## korefuji

kiwikozo said:


> Ah mine are on the way from the US, but do they still fit and charge in the case? I find silicon more comfortable vs comply.



They will fit in the case and charge, I just find it a tight nuisance to put back in compared with the comply, which just drop in. With the spinfit you have to squeeze them in a bit, but they still charge and fit mostly fine


----------



## nc8000

kiwikozo said:


> Ah mine are on the way from the US, but do they still fit and charge in the case? I find silicon more comfortable vs comply.



I use large Spinfit cp100 with the M2 and they do fit in the case but you have to fiddle a bit to get the buds properly settled


----------



## turbobb

mikp said:


> ...I think the 3026 is basic tws then. ... I will also be getting a set with 5100 series with apt-x hd, just waiting for something to be launched.



Re: 3026 - I'm beginning to think so as well...   As for 5100 that makes the two of us, except in my case, I need to get something with an 855 first.


----------



## korefuji

Anyone know a UK Store that stocks replacement Earin m2 tips? Comply ones - I just can't seem to find a store that stocks spares.


----------



## hifi80sman

SomeGuyDude said:


> The only logos I'll get on my clothing are bands and the like. Stuff I buy because I support whatever is drawn all over my chest. Headphones I rarely even notice.


I can only hope Van Halen is one of those shirts.


----------



## mikp

turbobb said:


> Re: 3026 - I'm beginning to think so as well...   As for 5100 that makes the two of us, except in my case, I need to get something with an 855 first.



Not too bad anyways, on hiby r3 both l and right can can be connected as master, depends on what bud is taken out first of the case or connects first. Also seems to switch between l and r.
Would not mind another mavin set with apt-x hd and anc. Since the buds easily takes some aliexpress t400 foam tips and the small case has no problems with them.


----------



## chinmie

nc8000 said:


> I use large Spinfit cp100 with the M2 and they do fit in the case but you have to fiddle a bit to get the buds properly settled



i use short length wide bore tips on mine. initially i use JVC spiral dot, but (like spinfits) it also making it hard to put inside the case.


----------



## kevinscottcaja

Sorry for the off topic. It seems 1More is also releasing a true wireless IEM as well: http://www.52audio.com/archives/13549.html

It seems to be using the QCC5100 series chipset, but it does mention it supports AAC and aptxHD as well. It also has ANC similar to that of the Sony WF-1000X. Battery life says 10 hours per charge and the charging case supports Qi wireless charging. And lastly, its a hybrid dual driver setup, one BA and one dynamic driver. Unfortunately, it will be crowdfunded on Indiegogo...


----------



## clerkpalmer

kevinscottcaja said:


> Sorry for the off topic. It seems 1More is also releasing a true wireless IEM as well: http://www.52audio.com/archives/13549.html
> 
> It seems to be using the QCC5100 series chipset, but it does mention it supports AAC and aptxHD as well. It also has ANC similar to that of the Sony WF-1000X. Battery life says 10 hours per charge and the charging case supports Qi wireless charging. And lastly, its a hybrid dual driver setup, one BA and one dynamic driver. Unfortunately, it will be crowdfunded on Indiegogo...


Interesting. Seems different and far more compelling than the one they released last month.


----------



## Rickyearl

kiwikozo said:


> I don't have this issue on android (s8+). The app always connects to the M2's. Maybe try reinstalling the app, disconnecting the earphones and pairing them to your phone individually one by one again?
> 
> My phone only connected to the Sennheiser MTW app 10% of the time, had to restart headphones/phone several times.
> 
> ...




I tried reinstalling both the app and the M2s several times.  Same deal.  Sent their support an email about it but I don't really know what they can say other than that.

Agreed on the issues with the case and I can totally see how they would be uncomfortable - they're nowhere near as comfortable as the M2.  But the MTW sound is just dramatically better on my Iphone.

I just switched out the M2's complys for Spinfits (100z) and it helped the sound.  Still not near MTW, but less bloated and muddy.


----------



## turbobb

Two more Chi-Fi units I'm currently testing:

BT32 Mach 5.1 - average SQ that's decent but doesn't really stand out. It has fatal flaw in that even if you manually turn the buds off it'll automatically turn on when it's fully charged... These are going back.

iQute TWS - there's the adage with car engines that there's simply no replacement for displacement and this TWE fits the bill. Main thing that caught my eye was that it features a 12mm graphene driver. They are kinda bulky and I finally found a good fit with some M sized Spinfit tips and man these things are loud! Only SBC and the implementation seems average (some slight graininess - Jaybird X2 is my benchmark for well-implemented SBC) but otherwise, it has very deep bass, airy presentation, crisp treble that's not sibilant at all. The range is pretty good and I haven't had any issues with inter-bud connectivity so far. I also like that the main body of the case is aluminum rather than cheap plastic with rubberized feets to keep them from sliding. Oh, did I mention how loud these are? I generally listen on the lower end of the spectrum and rarely exceed 50% volume on my LG V30 which with the majority of my BT earbuds are still bearable until about 75%. These at 60% are just a bit too loud for me.  I like that it has redundant volume +/- controls and play/pause buttons on both buds that offer a very satisfying and crisp tactile feel when depressed (although this does transmit microphonics into your ears though...). Overall, I'm pretty satisfied with these (especially with the $10 off promo they currently have going else I wouldn't have purchased these at regular price of $44).


----------



## Sharkhunter

I own both MW07 and Sennheiser MTW.After using both briefly, i have decided to list MTW for sale here on classifieds. 

i thgt of picking one for commute, but True wireless doesn't give enough isolation that i was looking for. Moving back to Sony XM3  headphones.


----------



## firewatersun

Alotta new TWS coming out at CES with 10ish hour battery and  also a few with ANC the 1More, Cleer and Sol Republics to name a few. Wondering how good ANC will be - if these can have good passive isolation through Complys or similar and decent ANC, might give the overears a run for their money


----------



## mikp

firewatersun said:


> Alotta new TWS coming out at CES with 10ish hour battery and  also a few with ANC the 1More, Cleer and Sol Republics to name a few. Wondering how good ANC will be - if these can have good passive isolation through Complys or similar and decent ANC, might give the overears a run for their money


yes, the qualcomm 5100 series finally coming.

Here are pics of some tws, too bad most of the charging cases does not seem to fit foam tips.


----------



## webvan (Jan 11, 2019)

Looking forward to these ANC enabled models too, let's hope it won't be Sony 1000/700 level ANC though as it adds very little isolation. Based on the form factor/battery constraints I think we shouldn't raise our hopes too high. As for Comply compatibility, count me out, good isolation but the sound is just too muffled with foam, it strikes me each time I try one side with foam and the other with silicone.



Sharkhunter said:


> I own both MW07 and Sennheiser MTW.After using both briefly, i have decided to list MTW for sale here on classifieds.
> 
> i thgt of picking one for commute, but True wireless doesn't give enough isolation that i was looking for. Moving back to Sony XM3  headphones.


Without music nothing can compete with XM3/QC25 ANC but with music I've found that TWS with decent isolation like the 65t do the job. You have to draw the line somewhere


----------



## alchemical

hifi80sman said:


> If you don't care about sound, the AirPods are right up your alley.
> 
> I haven't had ANY connection issues with my MTW.  No L/R drop outs, distance is flat out impressive for a TWE, but I do notice the L earbud is at 93% or 94% out of the charger (overnight).  Looking forward to the updates and glad they were actually announced.  Gotta give Sennheiser credit.


So Sennheiser have acknowledged the charging/battery issues and announced somewhere that a fix is on the way?


----------



## Rickyearl

mikp said:


> yes, the qualcomm 5100 series finally coming.
> 
> Here are pics of some tws, too bad most of the charging cases does not seem to fit foam tips.



Those Marleys look great.  But I bought a set of Marley cans about 5 years ago for that same reason, and they were some of the worst-sounding headphones I ever heard.


----------



## clerkpalmer

You could not pay me to put those klipsch in my ear with that branding.  My god what a marketing disaster. I don’t care what they sound like. What were they thinking!


----------



## SomeGuyDude

clerkpalmer said:


> You could not pay me to put those klipsch in my ear with that branding.  My god what a marketing disaster. *I don’t care what they sound like.* What were they thinking!



Whew lad...


----------



## kiwikozo (Jan 11, 2019)

Spinfit CP100 (medium) arrived today. Pressed them fully to fit the Earin M2 and they just about fit in the case with little difficulty. I found adding one earbud on the right first, and then the left makes them fit with no charging issues nice and securely.

My word they are comfortable, the most comfortable earbuds I've used. They really tightened up the bass and opened up the mids. The CP100 also greatly widens the soundstage vs the comply tips in the box.

Highly recommended, and Amazon US only took 1 week to send them over. Now I'm even more impressed by the M2's.










Can't seem to embed the pictures but here's a link:

https://imgur.com/a/qzE8qPl


----------



## clerkpalmer

SomeGuyDude said:


> Whew lad...


I suppose I could put black tape over the hideous lettering...


----------



## BigZ12

A guy on Reddit says he got a mail from the distribution company for Sennheiser in Czech Republic, saying that the "undisconnected earbuds from bluetooth" (as he wrote it), are HW issue and will be replaced under warranty.
So if you have problems with buds which will not turn off when putting them in the case, you may get new ones when contacting Sennheiser.
(Don't shoot the messenger  )


----------



## SomeGuyDude

clerkpalmer said:


> I suppose I could put black tape over the hideous lettering...



I admit that they're kinda gaudy but if you're willing to cut off your nose to spite your face because of a logo on something as small as a TWE, well more power to ya I guess. If they're the best sounding TWEs out there, or at least close to the MW07 and have better battery life I'll snap 'em up in a heartbeat, logos be damned. I care about my music, not people looking at me.


----------



## Rickyearl

BigZ12 said:


> A guy on Reddit says he got a mail from the distribution company for Sennheiser in Czech Republic, saying that the "undisconnected earbuds from bluetooth" (as he wrote it), are HW issue and will be replaced under warranty.
> So if you have problems with buds which will not turn off when putting them in the case, you may get new ones when contacting Sennheiser.
> (Don't shoot the messenger  )



If that's the case, according to the manual they have a 24 month warranty - so it might be worthwhile to see what firmware brings.  

@dweaver suggested I reset the TMWs, which involves plugging the case into a charger, then putting them in the case and pressing on both of their touch surfaces for 6+ seconds.  Trouble is that I cannot get this to actually reset them AFAICT - they don't even lose pairing.  I'm scared to press much longer because 30+ seconds is supposed to be a full factory wipe.  But I may break down this weekend and do that.

Also, I think the addition of an elastic strap like the E8's might well solve the issue too.


----------



## clerkpalmer

SomeGuyDude said:


> I admit that they're kinda gaudy but if you're willing to cut off your nose to spite your face because of a logo on something as small as a TWE, well more power to ya I guess. If they're the best sounding TWEs out there, or at least close to the MW07 and have better battery life I'll snap 'em up in a heartbeat, logos be damned. I care about my music, not people looking at me.



There was some sarcasm in my original post. However, they would have to blow the doors off of the MW07. My larger point is that big companies should employ people to stop them from making terrible mistakes like that. Whoever approved that design should be fired and it will absolutely cost them sales. Sure, looks aren’t everything but they sure should try to make them attractive or at the very least, inconspicuous.


----------



## Boreaquis

The JBL Reflect Flow seems like the most promising showing at CES, although they're not exactly pretty to look at.

I also have to agree with everyone that voiced their dislike of the Klipsch logo. I much prefer logo symbols if they have to be plastered on, and the giant gold letters look gaudy as hell.


----------



## jfvny

kevinscottcaja said:


> Sorry for the off topic. It seems 1More is also releasing a true wireless IEM as well: http://www.52audio.com/archives/13549.html
> 
> It seems to be using the QCC5100 series chipset, but it does mention it supports AAC and aptxHD as well. It also has ANC similar to that of the Sony WF-1000X. Battery life says 10 hours per charge and the charging case supports Qi wireless charging. And lastly, its a hybrid dual driver setup, one BA and one dynamic driver. Unfortunately, it will be crowdfunded on Indiegogo...


these seem really promising! i mean, i prob won't back the campaign cos they seem to be promising a little too much, but i really hope they manage to deliver


----------



## alpha421

Sure, the T5 logo can be a little more subtle, but the charging case is damn sexy.  I hope it's made of metal like the Zippo lighters. Having owned a few BT Klipsch products, I'm looking forward to the T5 release.  Based of what I've owned and read, $199 is priced right.


----------



## urii

Sabbat Magic Banquet X12 Pro - it is modification Sabbat X12 Pro?
http://www.52audio.com/archives/6752.html


----------



## webvan

That link was posted last week and it looks like a teardown to me ?


----------



## Boreaquis

Yeah, pretty sure that's just a teardown of the old X12 Pro. It has a new revision with USB C now, which is the one I got when I ordered in December.


----------



## Rickyearl

More on the M2 -

No delay whatsoever playing my switch with a USB aptX LL bluetooth dongle.  MTW has a tiny bit of delay, most others (Bose, Jabra, IconX, Liberty Lite) had massive delay to the point they were unusable.  Only ones without delay so far are M2, E8, and the cheapie Aukey corded bluetooth buds I bought on Amazon for $15.  Not sure if that means the others don't support aptX LL and these 3 do, or not.

No delay on Youtube or HBOGo.  Again, there is a minimal delay with MTW, although so slight as to be really unnoticeable except in extreme closeups.  E8 had no delay either.


----------



## nc8000

Rickyearl said:


> More on the M2 -
> 
> No delay whatsoever playing my switch with a USB aptX LL bluetooth dongle.  MTW has a tiny bit of delay, most others (Bose, Jabra, IconX, Liberty Lite) had massive delay to the point they were unusable.  Only ones without delay so far are M2, E8, and the cheapie Aukey corded bluetooth buds I bought on Amazon for $15.  Not sure if that means the others don't support aptX LL and these 3 do, or not.
> 
> No delay on Youtube or HBOGo.  Again, there is a minimal delay with MTW, although so slight as to be really unnoticeable except in extreme closeups.  E8 had no delay either.



I have no delay on the M2 or E8 (or the Havit G1) from an iPhone which is aac


----------



## hifi80sman

clerkpalmer said:


> You could not pay me to put those klipsch in my ear with that branding.  My god what a marketing disaster. I don’t care what they sound like. What were they thinking!


Not the best looking, but I did enjoy listening to the Klipsch R6 Neckband, which looks horrible and is probably why it's down to $39 on buydig.com, but they sound really good and have great battery life.  I never had any of the issues you read about online, but then again, I baby my stuff and take excellent care of it.

I'd roll with the new Klipsch TWEs.  Yes, looks kinda silly, but if the sound is good, I'm in my own world anyway.  Now, if they're pink, gotta be honest, I would *not *roll with 'em.


----------



## hifi80sman

Boreaquis said:


> The JBL Reflect Flow seems like the most promising showing at CES, although they're not exactly pretty to look at.
> 
> I also have to agree with everyone that voiced their dislike of the Klipsch logo. I much prefer logo symbols if they have to be plastered on, and the giant gold letters look gaudy as hell.


They look pretty nice, but it seems like JBL is still just using SBC.


----------



## kiwikozo

Earin released another estimated 90-minute update for the M2 today. 

Can't find any release notes but updating now.


----------



## Boreaquis

hifi80sman said:


> They look pretty nice, but it seems like JBL is still just using SBC.



Was hoping they'd do aptX/AAC with this as it doesn't release until summer, but that may be too optimistic.


----------



## RobinFood (Jan 11, 2019)

I was browsing Massdrop today and saw these...

https://www.massdrop.com/buy/tfz-x1-bluetooth-iem

TFZ got a good name for itself in the chi-fi thread a while ago with their Kings and tend to have a spot open for them at my local brick-and-mortar shop too. They seem to be using balanced armatures, and are really cheap. No mention of what codecs they use though....has anyone tried them?

Edit: Digging a little more, someone reported they use AAC and SBC.


----------



## Boreaquis

TFZ X1 is supposedly a rebranded Mifo O5, which has been well received here.


----------



## korefuji

kiwikozo said:


> Earin released another estimated 90-minute update for the M2 today.
> 
> Can't find any release notes but updating now.


Why do your stake so long to update? Mine were 30mins per bud


----------



## kiwikozo

korefuji said:


> Why do your stake so long to update? Mine were 30mins per bud



Update from today? I reconnected and it has sped up! Even a floppy disk would write faster than this.


----------



## hifi80sman

korefuji said:


> Why do your stake so long to update? Mine were 30mins per bud


30 mins?  What is this, 1986?


----------



## korefuji

hifi80sman said:


> 30 mins?  What is this, 1986?


I said 30 mins, not 88mph


----------



## turbobb

hifi80sman said:


> 30 mins?  What is this, 1986?


Even the top-of-the-line QCC5100 only has a 32Mhz System Processor so while its x-fer rate of ~2Mbps is technically fine (even a 5MB file should take only about 25 seconds to x-fer without overhead), there just isn't a whole lotta HP to process the updates quickly. The thing is I'm not sure how big the FW file sizes are. I know the Bose SS Free also take a long time to upgrade via BT but is significantly faster if hooked up directly to PC via USB so I'm guessing the BT x-fer is the culprit in that scenario.


----------



## nc8000

turbobb said:


> Even the top-of-the-line QCC5100 only has a 32Mhz System Processor so while its x-fer rate of ~2Mbps is technically fine (even a 5MB file should take only about 25 seconds to x-fer without overhead), there just isn't a whole lotta HP to process the updates quickly. The thing is I'm not sure how big the FW file sizes are. I know the Bose SS Free also take a long time to upgrade via BT but is significantly faster if hooked up directly to PC via USB so I'm guessing the BT x-fer is the culprit in that scenario.



The Beoplay E8 is a lot faster but part of the reason with the M2 is that each bud can act as master so each bud needs to full update


----------



## Rickyearl (Jan 11, 2019)

nc8000 said:


> The Beoplay E8 is a lot faster but part of the reason with the M2 is that each bud can act as master so each bud needs to full update


The updates on my E8 weren't faster.  I remember one taking well over half an hour.

Any release notes or anything on this new update?  Curious what it's for.


----------



## kiwikozo (Jan 11, 2019)

I don't think I'm losing it, I heard the M2 after adding the Spinfit cp100 silicone tips and I felt like they greatly improved the sound.

This most recent update has made my M2 feel like they've had a complete driver upgrade. The clarity and instrument separation has improved a silly amount. I find the signature similar to the MTW now just a little darker, and with a narrower soundstage.

Anybody else noticed this after the update?

aptX / Cp100 / S8+


----------



## Inear

kevinscottcaja said:


> Sorry for the off topic. It seems 1More is also releasing a true wireless IEM as well: http://www.52audio.com/archives/13549.html
> 
> It seems to be using the QCC5100 series chipset, but it does mention it supports AAC and aptxHD as well. It also has ANC similar to that of the Sony WF-1000X. Battery life says 10 hours per charge and the charging case supports Qi wireless charging. And lastly, its a hybrid dual driver setup, one BA and one dynamic driver. Unfortunately, it will be crowdfunded on Indiegogo...



These look very promising. Do you know when they will go on indiegogo? Also, the link is dead btw.


----------



## hifi80sman (Jan 11, 2019)

turbobb said:


> Even the top-of-the-line QCC5100 only has a 32Mhz System Processor so while its x-fer rate of ~2Mbps is technically fine (even a 5MB file should take only about 25 seconds to x-fer without overhead), there just isn't a whole lotta HP to process the updates quickly. The thing is I'm not sure how big the FW file sizes are. I know the Bose SS Free also take a long time to upgrade via BT but is significantly faster if hooked up directly to PC via USB so I'm guessing the BT x-fer is the culprit in that scenario.


Yes, when I plug in via USB, the update is maybe 3 mins or so for the SS Free.  I think you're on the right track with file size/BT, as I'm guessing some of the "updates" are quite large and may be more than just an "update".  It's probably like a full re-install.  Nevertheless, in 2019, it's still a bit humorous, albeit in a nerdy kind of way.


----------



## kiwikozo

Check out the size of these!


----------



## mikp

kiwikozo said:


> Check out the size of these!




 a little rabbit


----------



## Rickyearl

kiwikozo said:


> Check out the size of these!



Battery tech is kind of a limiting factor.  It’s roughly twice the battery so that’s gotta go somewhere.


----------



## hifi80sman (Jan 11, 2019)

kiwikozo said:


> Check out the size of these!



Nice visual.

That guy annoys me though.  He says it's a "metallic" case, but is it metal or not?  Come on, bruh.  By the sound & look, seems like plastic.   And it's like, dude, stop moving the damn thing around so I can flippin' see what the hell it is you're trying to show me.

Maybe I'm just bitter about his MTW vs. MW07 comparison, where he says "the Momentum take things further, offering bigger, bolder bass, smoother midrange sound, a wider stereo image, and better overall instrumental definition".  Wider stereo image and better overall instrumental definition?  What?!  The MW07, virtually objectively, have a wider soundstage and better "instrumental definition".  I guess Master & dynamic didn't pay them enough.


----------



## korefuji

the form factor on the klipsch are rather large...I guess you get what pay for?


----------



## SomeGuyDude

hifi80sman said:


> Nice visual.
> 
> That guy annoys me though.  He says it's a "metallic" case, but is it metal or not?  Come on, bruh.  By the sound & look, seems like plastic.   And it's like, dude, stop moving the damn thing around so I can flippin' see what the hell it is you're trying to show me.
> 
> Maybe I'm just bitter about his MTW vs. MW07 comparison, where he says "the Momentum take things further, offering bigger, bolder bass, smoother midrange sound, a wider stereo image, and better overall instrumental definition".  Wider stereo image and better overall instrumental definition?  What?!  The MW07, virtually objectively, have a wider soundstage and better "instrumental definition".  I guess Master & dynamic didn't pay them enough.



"Tech journalists" only carry about major brands, particularly ones that are heavy on the tech. M&D has no app, no touch controls, does nothing fancy whatsoever, so they'll get overlooked unfortunately.


----------



## clerkpalmer

hifi80sman said:


> Nice visual.
> 
> That guy annoys me though.  He says it's a "metallic" case, but is it metal or not?  Come on, bruh.  By the sound & look, seems like plastic.   And it's like, dude, stop moving the damn thing around so I can flippin' see what the hell it is you're trying to show me.
> 
> Maybe I'm just bitter about his MTW vs. MW07 comparison, where he says "the Momentum take things further, offering bigger, bolder bass, smoother midrange sound, a wider stereo image, and better overall instrumental definition".  Wider stereo image and better overall instrumental definition?  What?!  The MW07, virtually objectively, have a wider soundstage and better "instrumental definition".  I guess Master & dynamic didn't pay them enough.



Well said. Sennheiser deserves praise for delivering a solid above-average product and the best all around TW to date. But to say the sound quality - and particularly soundstage - bests the MW07 is nonsense. I could understand someone preferring the sound signature of the MTW to MW07 but no way on soundstage, imaging etc.


----------



## clerkpalmer

kiwikozo said:


> Check out the size of these!




He said they were “sexy” and “very small”. Someone ought to show him the M-2.


----------



## chinmie

urii said:


> Sabbat Magic Banquet X12 Pro - it is modification Sabbat X12 Pro?
> http://www.52audio.com/archives/6752.html



that is the old version. this is the comparison of the new and old version that i gave to my son:


 
new one has USB C, and battery indicator.also slightly bigger

 

the charging prong also now slightly more distant from each other, so using the old unit inside the new case simpli won't charge (and vice versa) 



kiwikozo said:


> I don't think I'm losing it, I heard the M2 after adding the Spinfit cp100 silicone tips and I felt like they greatly improved the sound.
> 
> This most recent update has made my M2 feel like they've had a complete driver upgrade. The clarity and instrument separation has improved a silly amount. I find the signature similar to the MTW now just a little darker, and with a narrower soundstage.
> 
> ...



the M2 is indeed sensitive to tips change. i have varying sound when using spinfits, sony, jvc, etc. the only limiting factor is that it can't use tips thst too long because of the tight room on the case. i wish all TWS just use standard iem tips, unlike the Jabra, Mifo, and some other that uses small notched tips.

I've just did the update (almost took 2 goshdarn hours, but at least i can use it while it's updating), doesn't hear any major changes in sound


----------



## nc8000

Rickyearl said:


> The updates on my E8 weren't faster.  I remember one taking well over half an hour.
> 
> Any release notes or anything on this new update?  Curious what it's for.



I’ve emailed them asking for release notes. 

My E8 updates took about 15-20 minutes


----------



## raheelc

Ordered my MW07 from ebay earlier today, ended up getting them for a touch over $110. Super excited to try them out, may end up returning the Jabra Active 65t if I like the MW07 more (although the Jabra's have more features and better battery life)


----------



## nc8000

The new M2 fw has extended the battery life. Before I got just over 3 hours on a charge but with the new I get just under 4 hours. Also at the master/slave swap at around 50% battery the music now automatically resumes after the swap.


----------



## korefuji

nc8000 said:


> The new M2 fw has extended the battery life. Before I got just over 3 hours on a charge but with the new I get just under 4 hours. Also at the master/slave swap at around 50% battery the music now automatically resumes after the swap.



Thanks for this, better late than never with matching their claims I guess


----------



## yuriv (Jan 12, 2019)

RunsWithScissors said:


> I emailed Comply support to inquire if there were any plans to offer Comply foam tips for the Jabra Elite 65t in any other sizes and unfortunately they replied no.
> 
> Comply Support response excerpt:
> "Unfortunately, the tips provided during our testing didn't pass the test for compatibility due to users having the tips fall off of the device.
> ...



To add to this, I asked the following question on the product page:

01/08/19
*Q: *What's the difference between this and the generic Comply Truly Wireless Replacement Earphone Tips? They seem to have identical product photos and the same item model number 25-10111-11. That is, is there anything different about this that makes it specific to the Jabra Elite 65t and Elite Active 65t?​
This was their reply:

01/08/19
*A: *Thanks for your question! They are the same tip, just marketed to the Jabra Elite 65t customers. Please email us if you have any additional questions!​
They also don’t display this answer on the product page. Bummer indeed. I’ll update my report.


----------



## RobinFood

I went trying TWEs this afternoon for a short hour. I had a chance to try the SP700Ns, the SP900Ns, the WF1000Xs, the EaRIN M2s, the Mavin Air-Xs, and the Kong-Xs. I wanted to try more but ran short on time. Here is a rundown of my thoughts on each.

I loved the SP700Ns very much again, and found them really well extended and comfortable. The separation was there, the bass detail was nice and impactful, and the mids were still quite clear. This is still one of my favorite TWEs out there. The different modes are useful, but the buttons are annoying to get to, and the audio lag is pretty severe, which is the reason I am hesitant about them. I really wish they were more responsive.

I tried the SP900Ns next, and found the mids nice, but the rest really seemed rolled off. One thing is that they didn't get very loud, but the bass extension and treble extension was definitely lacking. I cycled through the different modes, and it didn't seem to offer ANC on the settings of the demo unit. You could only activate and deactivate transparency, not that it made much of a difference having ANC on other true wireless units. The button placement was amazing though, and the buttons were really good. I also thought the case was great, and even though they were the same style as the other Sony TWEs, they felt much better. They were also the only ones that didn't have a huge amount of sound delay. Too bad the SQ just didn't feel that good.

Next, I tried their father, the WF1000X. They were very comfortable, and had a very nice and balanced sound, with nice separation. I still preferred the SP700Ns sound-sig, but these were nice. The ANC and transparency mode both seemed ever so slightly better than the SP700Ns, so I think they probably have better mics. They were also smaller, so they fit more comfortably, and had the same nice buttons as the SP900Ns. They also had quite a bit of lag, which was unfortunate, The same kind as the SP700Ns.

After, I tried the EARINs. I didn't like them very much. They sounded veiled and muddy. The sound profile even seemed to change between pauses. This was a demo unit, so I am not sure that update they had, if any, but I wasn't a fan of the sound, or the fit.

I then tried the Mavins, and I was not expecting much, but was very pleasantly surprised. They had the easiest pairing method of the bunch, the best case, a nice fit, and sounded very nice. The bass felt just right, and the highs were decent too. Best of all, the mids sounded super clear and detailed. Well, they didn't have all the detail I am used to on my ER4s, but they were very detailed just the same. They had no audio lag as well. I feel like I would have snatched them up here and there had they offered transparency mode. Sure, I can just take off an earbud when someone is talking, but sometimes I need to be aware if someone wants to talk to me.

Finally, I tried the Kong-Xs. They are a hybrid BA-DD TWE, and they sounded the best in the bunch. They were really loud at 10% volume, so I kept it below 7. The bass was like the SP700Ns, but with really clear mids and nice highs. They sounded very nice. The plastic used to make them though wasn't great, and they did end up being huge, which I didn't like...The case is also way too big to be practical.

So, in the end, my two favorite were the SP700Ns and the Mavin Air-Xs. I am not sure I am ready to pull the trigger, as they just don't have everything I need yet. I need less lag on the SP700Ns or transparency mode on the Mavins.

I think though that at this point, technology will render a lot of TOTL models useless in a few generations, so I am not sure I want to spend too much on a pair. I was surprised that the Mavin's could compete with some pairs worth twice its price, thanks in part to it's new chip, and I think it is just a matter of time before the chips get better and leave this current generation of TWEs in the dust.


----------



## SomeGuyDude (Jan 12, 2019)

I'm not sure tech is gonna advance that rapidly. But if it does, that'd be awesome and I'll be there for it!

I will say try and get hold of the e8 if you can. If you're like me and got a set that sounded right, they're damn near the best all-rounders in my opinion, even above the Jabras. I'm just the kind of picky person that needs "the best sounding" even if it means sacrificing other features.


----------



## SilverEars (Jan 12, 2019)

SomeGuyDude said:


> I'm not sure tech is gonna advance that rapidly. But if it does, that'd be awesome and I'll be there for it!
> 
> I will say try and get hold of the *e8* if you can. If you're like me and got a set that sounded right, they're *damn near the best all-rounders* in my opinion, even above the Jabras. I'm just the kind of picky person that needs "the best sounding" even if it means sacrificing other features.


Ah, no.  You don't hear the peak?  Maybe you are ok with the treble peak, but not I.  I prefer the Jabra tonally, and it does all I need for when I'm using for exercising (when I don't listen critically).  I'm done with TW for a long time as really don't expect more than being functional with the one I prefer to behave listenable tonally.


----------



## chinmie

RobinFood said:


> I went trying TWEs this afternoon for a short hour. I had a chance to try the SP700Ns, the SP900Ns, the WF1000Xs, the EaRIN M2s, the Mavin Air-Xs, and the Kong-Xs. I wanted to try more but ran short on time. Here is a rundown of my thoughts on each.
> 
> I loved the SP700Ns very much again, and found them really well extended and comfortable. The separation was there, the bass detail was nice and impactful, and the mids were still quite clear. This is still one of my favorite TWEs out there. The different modes are useful, but the buttons are annoying to get to, and the audio lag is pretty severe, which is the reason I am hesitant about them. I really wish they were more responsive.
> 
> ...



isn't the Kong-X the one that can be converted into wired iem? what's the price on those?


----------



## webvan

RobinFood said:


> I went trying TWEs this afternoon for a short hour. I had a chance to try the SP700Ns, the SP900Ns, the WF1000Xs, the EaRIN M2s, the Mavin Air-Xs, and the Kong-Xs. I wanted to try more but ran short on time. Here is a rundown of my thoughts on each.
> 
> I loved the SP700Ns very much again, and found them really well extended and comfortable. The separation was there, the bass detail was nice and impactful, and the mids were still quite clear. This is still one of my favorite TWEs out there. The different modes are useful, but the buttons are annoying to get to, and the audio lag is pretty severe, which is the reason I am hesitant about them. I really wish they were more responsive.
> 
> ...



Nice comparison and lucky you to be able to find a place where you can check out all these TWEs, I have yet to see one myself !
As a WF-1000x owner I can't disagree with your findings about the SQ and the really annoying lag. At the end of the day I do tend to go to the 65ts for convenience though.


----------



## turbobb

RobinFood said:


> I tried the SP900Ns next... Too bad the SQ just didn't feel that good.



Thx a lot for the write up! A shame about the SP900N's I was really looking forward to those as I'm a fan of the Sony sound sig.


----------



## webvan

Ah yes, forgot to write that Sony did not implement ANC on the SP900, easy to understand why


----------



## SomeGuyDude

SilverEars said:


> Ah, no.  You don't hear the peak?  Maybe you are ok with the treble peak, but not I.  I prefer the Jabra tonally, and it does all I need for when I'm using for exercising (when I don't listen critically).  I'm done with TW for a long time as really don't expect more than being functional with the one I prefer to behave listenable tonally.



Because there isn't one, or at least there shouldn't be. There seemed to be issues some had with the e8 but my pair with just a small bit of EQ from the app sounded scads better than the Jabra. Not even a close comparison.


----------



## nc8000

SomeGuyDude said:


> Because there isn't one, or at least there shouldn't be. There seemed to be issues some had with the e8 but my pair with just a small bit of EQ from the app sounded scads better than the Jabra. Not even a close comparison.



I also don’t hear any peak, but that would depend on at what frequency it’s supposed to be at as I have a dip in my hearing in the treble


----------



## hifi80sman

SilverEars said:


> Ah, no.  You don't hear the peak?  Maybe you are ok with the treble peak, but not I.  I prefer the Jabra tonally, and it does all I need for when I'm using for exercising (when I don't listen critically).  I'm done with TW for a long time as really don't expect more than being functional with the one I prefer to behave listenable tonally.


I'm treble sensitive, but out of the box, they didn't bother me.  However, I went thru a few pairs for various reasons and the 1st pair sounded markedly different than subsequent pairs, so it's possible you had one with an extreme treble spike.  My first pair sounded tinny and the bass was like a weak tap.  Wasn't the seal, btw.  With some of the other B&O products I've purchased recently (H9i, H8i), there seems to be QC issues with build quality/consistency.


----------



## hifi80sman

RobinFood said:


> I tried the SP900Ns next, and found the mids nice, but the rest really seemed rolled off. One thing is that they didn't get very loud, but the bass extension and treble extension was definitely lacking. I cycled through the different modes, and it didn't seem to offer ANC on the settings of the demo unit. You could only activate and deactivate transparency, not that it made much of a difference having ANC on other true wireless units. The button placement was amazing though, and the buttons were really good. I also thought the case was great, and even though they were the same style as the other Sony TWEs, they felt much better. They were also the only ones that didn't have a huge amount of sound delay. Too bad the SQ just didn't feel that good.


Disappointed!  I was looking forward to these as potentially a refined, yet bass forward version of the SP700N.  They really should have changed the naming structure to something like BA900S (Balanced Armature, Sports).  But hey, what do I know, Sony is the king of product naming!

It does look kinda cool that you can use them in the water/ocean with the on board storage.  I wonder if you need to connect the cable to run both sides underwater...


----------



## hifi80sman

For fun, knock off E8:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07HWYDN4F

This is the "Charm Pioneer Luxury Version" and "Charm base on moving Hifi system wish. Built-in best Hifi 15 bi-amp music module, The sound quality invited the 3 professional tuners did two months test of rigorous debugging. Cooperate with the cozy comfortable memory foam earplugs".  SOLD!!!  Gotta love Chi-Fi.


----------



## mikp

RobinFood said:


> I went trying TWEs this afternoon for a short hour. I had a chance to try the SP700Ns, the SP900Ns, the WF1000Xs, the EaRIN M2s, the Mavin Air-Xs, and the Kong-Xs. I wanted to try more but ran short on time. Here is a rundown of my thoughts on each.
> 
> I loved the SP700Ns very much again, and found them really well extended and comfortable. The separation was there, the bass detail was nice and impactful, and the mids were still quite clear. This is still one of my favorite TWEs out there. The different modes are useful, but the buttons are annoying to get to, and the audio lag is pretty severe, which is the reason I am hesitant about them. I really wish they were more responsive.
> 
> ...



I was also surprised by the mavins. 

I ususally check on kickstarter\indiegogo for stuff, then search for it on jd.com\alibaba\aliexpress\globalsources.com since most of the stuff is rebrands. Found the mavin on indiegogo and waited until it was available direct from them (would never buy from indiegogo) Mavin partnered with erato before, similar case.

I did not expect much, but maybe better than the random chinese Airoha tws. But these things are really nice.
Good sound and very loud, case is small but easily fits different tips like foam. Another plus points are the buds can be powered on,off and put in pairing mode without the case. So far the minus things are problems with latest win 10 1809, where it will not play music. Tried on different computers and after the 1809 update the issue occurred.


----------



## turbobb

mikp said:


> Not too bad anyways, on hiby r3 both l and right can can be connected as master, depends on what bud is taken out first of the case or connects first. Also seems to switch between l and r.
> Would not mind another mavin set with apt-x hd and anc. Since the buds easily takes some aliexpress t400 foam tips and the small case has no problems with them.


Bah, just tested it again carefully with the Note 9 and couldn't get it to connect to both. While I am able to pair each one individually, as soon as I turn back on the L, it'll ask for the R to pair again (even though it's paired already). If I don't pair it then it removes it from the list and it won't connect to L. So either/or:
- Qualcomm misstated TWS+ support on the QCC3020/6 spec sheet
- Mfg using these chips didn't enable it

I'm hoping it's more the later and that perhaps it can be enabled via FW update. I'm in negotiations with the seller to return these. It looks like they removed a bunch of positive review (was around 25 total last I checked and now it's down to 9) but a recent one said they replaced it due to connectivity issues and that resolve the problem. Am hoping for the same... Will report back. 

In meanwhile I grabbed another with QCC3001 support, no aptX but has AAC.


----------



## mikp

turbobb said:


> Bah, just tested it again carefully with the Note 9 and couldn't get it to connect to both. While I am able to pair each one individually, as soon as I turn back on the L, it'll ask for the R to pair again (even though it's paired already). If I don't pair it then it removes it from the list and it won't connect to L. So either/or:
> - Qualcomm misstated TWS+ support on the QCC3020/6 spec sheet
> - Mfg using these chips didn't enable it
> 
> ...



is this the mavin?

Does not look like 3026 has stereo plus.


----------



## turbobb

@mikp - nope, I should've mentioned it's for the MPow T5: https://www.amazon.com/Mpow-Waterproof-Bluetooth-Headphones-Noise-Canceling/dp/B07KT2SYPY


----------



## mikp

turbobb said:


> @mikp - nope, I should've mentioned it's for the MPow T5: https://www.amazon.com/Mpow-Waterproof-Bluetooth-Headphones-Noise-Canceling/dp/B07KT2SYPY



ok, thats these.

Too bad the "established" brands have not used the qualcomm series. Seems it is difficult to advertise apt-x hd, and truewireless stereo plus + multipoint etc.

Instead they use marketing lingo like "free yourself with superior sound"


----------



## RobinFood

chinmie said:


> isn't the Kong-X the one that can be converted into wired iem? what's the price on those?



The Kong-X is only wireless, but it does have a notch to add ear-hooks for the stability. The plastic they are made from though felt like cheap plastic cups, and they were pretty big. According to the specs they have a BA and a 10mm DD driver though, so I guess they would have to be big. The case though...it's almost the size of foldable over-ear headphones. They are pretty cheap though, about 120 USD.

https://www.e-earphone.jp/shopdetail/000000209236/ct2938/page2/recommend/



turbobb said:


> Thx a lot for the write up! A shame about the SP900N's I was really looking forward to those as I'm a fan of the Sony sound sig.



Yes, it really is. They might need time to adjust to, maybe they open up, but out of the box they were pretty disappointing. I think maybe the TWE world isn't ready for balanced armatures, which is a shame because I love their sound wired, but they usually need a better source.


----------



## RobinFood (Jan 12, 2019)

mikp said:


> I was also surprised by the mavins.
> 
> I ususally check on kickstarter\indiegogo for stuff, then search for it on jd.com\alibaba\aliexpress\globalsources.com since most of the stuff is rebrands. Found the mavin on indiegogo and waited until it was available direct from them (would never buy from indiegogo) Mavin partnered with erato before, similar case.
> 
> ...



Yes, they were really good. They were perfect except for the lack of transparency mode. I have kids and listen to music at work, and in those situations I need to be able to hear the outside world, but in the commute, I need to shut it out, and would like to have a jack-of-all-trades for that so I can save on pocket space.

I will probably go back if I have time and try the Audio Technica series and the Nuarl series. The Nuarl have a nice looking QC3026 SoC earbud with graphene drivers and HDSS. I was so impressed with the Mavin's, I am wondering if it is not thanks to the new bluetooth chip.

https://www.e-earphone.jp/shopdetail/000000220092/


----------



## webvan

Found a review of the MPOW T5 that was just posted apparently https://nerdtechy.com/mpow-t5-review - SQ is not great apparently.


----------



## mikp

RobinFood said:


> Yes, they were really good. They were perfect except for the lack of transparency mode. I have kids and listen to music at work, and in those situations I need to be able to hear the outside world, but in the commute, I need to shut it out, and would like to have a jack-of-all-trades for that so I can save on pocket space.
> 
> I will probably go back if I have time and try the Audio Technica series and the Nuarl series. The Nuarl have a nice looking QC3026 SoC earbud with graphene drivers and HDSS. I was so impressed with the Mavin's, I am wondering if it is not thanks to the new bluetooth chip.
> 
> https://www.e-earphone.jp/shopdetail/000000220092/



ive had the jabra 65t for a while, and think they are the best jack of all..transparency mode,multipoint,good app,connection etc. Can be powered on off without case. I use them maybe 10hours a week on transparency mode during hikes. Can just stop music and still have them in for a period of time while hearing the surroundings. After getting the mavins I realise how they do not compare in sq, also they are difficult with other tips. Got some tips that had to be threaded over the entire nozzle.

Have not seen any qcc5100 based tws with transparency mode, please post it here.


----------



## Luchyres (Jan 12, 2019)

mikp said:


> ive had the jabra 65t for a while, and think they are the best jack of all..transparency mode,multipoint,good app,connection etc. Can be powered on off without case. I use them maybe 10hours a week on transparency mode during hikes. Can just stop music and still have them in for a period of time while hearing the surroundings. After getting the mavins I realise how they do not compare in sq, also they are difficult with other tips. Got some tips that had to be threaded over the entire nozzle.
> 
> Have not seen any qcc5100 based tws with transparency mode, please post it here.



Sorry, just a quick clarification - is it that the Elite 65T does not compare to the Mavin's (good) sound quality? Or do you like the 65T sound better than the Mavin? (And it's the Elite 65T you had difficulty finding a tip that fit, yes?)

EDIT: I saw your previous posts in the thread and confirmed that yes you were pleasantly surprised by the Mavin's. I may give them a look!

Thanks!


----------



## mikp

Luchyres said:


> Sorry, just a quick clarification - is it that the Elite 65T does not compare to the Mavin's (good) sound quality? Or do you like the 65T sound better than the Mavin? (And it's the Elite 65T you had difficulty finding a tip that fit, yes?)
> 
> EDIT: I saw your previous posts in the thread and confirmed that yes you were pleasantly surprised by the Mavin's. I may give them a look!
> 
> Thanks!



The mavin sound is much better than the 65, in comparison 65t sounds thin and anaemic. But the 65t has the better support, app,voice, features and quality feeling.


----------



## Luchyres

mikp said:


> The mavin sound is much better than the 65, in comparison 65t sounds thin and anaemic. But the 65t has the better support, app,voice, features and quality feeling.


Thanks for the additional thoughts!

Did you have much opportunity to try voice calls with the Air-X? My usage is about 90% music to 10% calls - so I'd like for them to be "good enough" (the MTW before the bugfix for the sound issue on calls were not "good enough" though they may be now that it is fixed). 

I also realize I basically do not use transparency, though I do value it when evaluating for a purchase - but until the QCC5100 series products are coming out, the Air-X may be a suitable TWE for me if the calls are workable.


----------



## mikp

Luchyres said:


> Thanks for the additional thoughts!
> 
> Did you have much opportunity to try voice calls with the Air-X? My usage is about 90% music to 10% calls - so I'd like for them to be "good enough" (the MTW before the bugfix for the sound issue on calls were not "good enough" though they may be now that it is fixed).
> 
> I also realize I basically do not use transparency, though I do value it when evaluating for a purchase - but until the QCC5100 series products are coming out, the Air-X may be a suitable TWE for me if the calls are workable.



Also waiting for 5100.. The mavin voice quality is only in the "gets the job done" so for short conversations, not serious calls. Again the jabra is better, thats why i use it in working hours. Mavin just shows how bad the music quality is on it.


----------



## Tommy C

mikp said:


> The mavin sound is much better than the 65, in comparison 65t sounds thin and anaemic. But the 65t has the better support, app,voice, features and quality feeling.



I haven’t listened to the Mavin but demoed the 65t and Active and their sound is nowhere near thin and anemic. Are you sure you’re getting a proper seal or that your pair isn’t defective? I’m currently using the Jabra Elite Sport and they definitely have more bass than the 65t but the 65t are a bit cleaner and more balanced, unless your are a major basshead and like to listen to a super warm iems.


----------



## chinmie

listening back to my 65t, i think lately we seem to under appreciate it's sound. it is nowhere near in "bad" category, in fact it is a really clear sounding and good staging iem. i do need to eq down the treble a bit, but that's it. wearing them inside my helmet when riding is great (it is still my number one pick for riding), and the slightly brittle treble is not fatiguing or bothering in that scenario. buttons are nicely reachable inside the helmet, and the call quality is stellar.


----------



## webvan

Yes the SQ on the 65t is certainly not bad at all and when used without any comparison point it's absolutely fine. If you put the WF-1000x or Sabbat in one ear and the 65t in another (or both by trying to change quickly) while streaming the same music from two phones (not easy to do !) there will be differences but it's not night and day either.


----------



## mikp

Tommy C said:


> I haven’t listened to the Mavin but demoed the 65t and Active and their sound is nowhere near thin and anemic. Are you sure you’re getting a proper seal or that your pair isn’t defective? I’m currently using the Jabra Elite Sport and they definitely have more bass than the 65t but the 65t are a bit cleaner and more balanced, unless your are a major basshead and like to listen to a super warm iems.



The keyword is "in comparison". The 65t has sounded fine to me and used it for months, but does not compare to the mavins or the sennheiser ive only tested in the shops. Got these tips threaded on the 65

newbee


----------



## hifi80sman

Interesting.  Rebranded MW07 coming soon.
https://mikeshouts.com/louis-vuitton-horizon-earphones/


----------



## SomeGuyDude

hifi80sman said:


> Interesting.  Rebranded MW07 coming soon.
> https://mikeshouts.com/louis-vuitton-horizon-earphones/



I mean, good on 'em for at least picking something quality but wow. If that isn't Louis Vitton in microcosm...


----------



## kiwikozo

hifi80sman said:


> Interesting.  Rebranded MW07 coming soon.
> https://mikeshouts.com/louis-vuitton-horizon-earphones/



Those people who need brands to make themselves feel better will yearn for these and wear them 24/7 even when they've run out of battery.

Matches perfectly with a gucci belt?


----------



## hifi80sman (Jan 13, 2019)

kiwikozo said:


> Those people who need brands to make themselves feel better will yearn for these and wear them 24/7 even when they've run out of battery.
> 
> Matches perfectly with a gucci belt?


I wonder how much they are going to charge.  It'll be interesting if they were like $499 or something.  I also wonder if this is going to open the door for more rebrands.

Curious, but does M&D hold the rights for the MW07 and is just licensing it out or does someone else (not sure how you'd find out).  It's possible M&D may have exclusive marketing rights for a period of time and it expired.


----------



## clerkpalmer

M&D does a ton of collaborations. My guess is they are licensing the headphones to LV for a handsome fee. I am a little surprised M&Ds name is not on them.


----------



## albau (Jan 13, 2019)

hifi80sman said:


> Curious, but does M&D hold the rights for the MW07 and is just licensing it out or does someone else (not sure how you'd find out).  It's possible M&D may have exclusive marketing rights for a period of time and it expired.


M&D itself is a trademark of New Audio, LLC. Located in Midtown, Manhattan. I think they were started by a Wall Street banker's hipster son who was professionally playing in some kind of rock band. They everywhere stamp "designed and develooed in NYC". So I highly doubt that it's some kind of Chi-Fi design or license. Doesn't feel that way, nor in sound refinement, not in high-street design. Purely 5th Av boutique product, just manufactured in China. The LV version to me looks really hideous, except for maybe the round case. M&D should've licensed to something more exclusive like Hermes or Lalique. Even Movado would've been better


----------



## clerkpalmer

albau said:


> The LV version to me looks really hideous, except for maybe the round case. M&D should've licensed to something more exclusive like Hermes or Lalique. Even Movado would've been better



Agreed. Maybe the tapped they design person at Klipsch. 

Back on topic, did we ever solve the whole SBC in the left ear issue for the MTW?


----------



## Wrathbringer27

Anyone has tried the kong-x or the coopidea cargo yet?


----------



## firewatersun

albau said:


> M&D itself is a trademark of New Audio, LLC. Located in Midtown, Manhattan. I think they were started by a Wall Street banker's hipster son who was professionally playing in some kind of rock band. They everywhere stamp "designed and develooed in NYC". So I highly doubt that it's some kind of Chi-Fi design or license. Doesn't feel that way, nor in sound refinement, not in high-street design. Purely 5th Av boutique product, just manufactured in China. The LV version to me looks really hideous, except for maybe the round case. M&D should've licensed to something more exclusive like Hermes or Lalique. Even Movado would've been better



I think they look hideous too, but the sheen of plastic used makes it look like a 3D print or test mold, it might just be a prototype. 

Then again I don't really understand some of the stuff that passes for fashion so...


----------



## kiwikozo

firewatersun said:


> I think they look hideous too, but the sheen of plastic used makes it look like a 3D print or test mold, it might just be a prototype.
> 
> Then again I don't really understand some of the stuff that passes for fashion so...



With clothing, the more rips or holes it has, and the higher the profit margin for the seller = more fashion. 

I'm guessing with TW earphones all one can use to determine how "fashionable" they are is by the # of logos and the price you pay.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

Far as I'm concerned if rebrands use quality components rather than Monster Beats or Skullcandy or cheap chinese OEM parts then that's a good thing. It pushes quality products into the "fashionable" realm and means future reviews will actually put some emphasis on the sound.


----------



## kevinscottcaja

Inear said:


> These look very promising. Do you know when they will go on indiegogo? Also, the link is dead btw.


No idea when but my guess is around mid 2019. I just checked the link and it seems they've removed the post, sorry.


----------



## chinmie

the funny thing is i think the original MW07 is more beautiful than the LV's


----------



## SomeGuyDude

chinmie said:


> the funny thing is i think the original MW07 is more beautiful than the LV's



No lie, the Grey Tarazzo MW07 might be the best looking TWE I've seen so far. It's just super class.


----------



## hifi80sman (Jan 14, 2019)

albau said:


> M&D itself is a trademark of New Audio, LLC. Located in Midtown, Manhattan. I think they were started by a Wall Street banker's hipster son who was professionally playing in some kind of rock band. They everywhere stamp "designed and develooed in NYC". So I highly doubt that it's some kind of Chi-Fi design or license. Doesn't feel that way, nor in sound refinement, not in high-street design. Purely 5th Av boutique product, just manufactured in China. The LV version to me looks really hideous, except for maybe the round case. M&D should've licensed to something more exclusive like Hermes or Lalique. Even Movado would've been better


I guess if you're going to license these bad boys, it would be to the most pretentious company, like, ever.

Switching gears, has anyone tried these out?  Japanese company "GLIDiC" (really SoftBank), but couldn't determine if they were alse made in Japan.  A little tempted.
https://www.amazon.com/GLIDiC-TW-5000-Wireless-Earbuds-Official/dp/B07JJ7B167/

https://www.prweb.com/releases/japa...ound_air_tw_5000_in_the_usa/prweb16002041.htm


----------



## nc8000 (Jan 14, 2019)

Reply from Earin regarding changes in latest FW. No mentioning of extended battery life, but I get about 30 minutes more compared to previous FW.

Thank you for contacting Earin support.

The most important features of the new firmware (.159) are:
- A more centered and stable stereo image
- Improved call quality
- Transperency settings are modified

A few minor issues are also sorted in this new release.


----------



## RobinFood

hifi80sman said:


> I guess if you're going to license these bad boys, it would be to the most pretentious company, like, ever.
> 
> Switching gears, has anyone tried these out?  Japanese company "GLIDiC" (really SoftBank), but couldn't determine if they were alse made in Japan.  A little tempted.
> https://www.amazon.com/GLIDiC-TW-5000-Wireless-Earbuds-Official/dp/B07JJ7B167/
> ...



I haven't tried it but I have seen it quite a bit on trains, and I can give it a try next time I have a chance to go to the earphone store.
It seems pretty generic though based on the specs and the reviews on the Japanese websites. There is also a 7000 series that seems a little better, with 10 hour battery life in the buds.


----------



## chinmie

nc8000 said:


> Reply from Earin regarding changes in latest FW. No mentioning of extended battery lige, but I get about 30 minutes more compared to previous FW.
> 
> Thank you for contacting Earin support.
> 
> ...



that explains it. yesterday i went to the mall with my wife and kid, using the earin as noise blocker. the noise gate sounds better, as it filters out the noise but let in sound above the threshold clearer than before, as it sounds less "clangy" and less metallic. i didn't notice any changes on sound quality on music playback. the improvement on call quality i think also because the better noise gate/mic implementation.


----------



## nc8000

chinmie said:


> that explains it. yesterday i went to the mall with my wife and kid, using the earin as noise blocker. the noise gate sounds better, as it filters out the noise but let in sound above the threshold clearer than before, as it sounds less "clangy" and less metallic. i didn't notice any changes on sound quality on music playback. the improvement on call quality i think also because the better noise gate/mic implementation.



They have also fixed an issue where phone calls were sometimes only in the master bud, they are now always stereo in both buds


----------



## chinmie

nc8000 said:


> They have also fixed an issue where phone calls were sometimes only in the master bud, they are now always stereo in both buds



i also contacted them a few days ago about the possibility of changing transparency mode directly from the unit. they responded that if there's a great demand on it from other customers they would add it in.


----------



## Rickyearl

kiwikozo said:


> I don't think I'm losing it, I heard the M2 after adding the Spinfit cp100 silicone tips and I felt like they greatly improved the sound.
> 
> This most recent update has made my M2 feel like they've had a complete driver upgrade. The clarity and instrument separation has improved a silly amount. I find the signature similar to the MTW now just a little darker, and with a narrower soundstage.
> 
> ...



I finally got these things to update (wow).  So far, after struggling for 2 days to get the update installed, it's like the updates to Chrome - I can't really tell anything happened.  

I wouldn't swear either way on any difference in sound due to the update, but it's not major if so.  


I'd say you are right overall that the Earins have a little too much bass and definitely have a narrower soundstage.  The Spinfits really do help - the Complys really muffled things.  I turned on the Bass Reducer on the Spotify EQ and it really helped - details came out and the bloat mostly disappeared.  

It would be nice to have an EQ for the Earins (even the silly "move the dot" ones Senn and B&O gave us), but for now the combo of Bass Reducer and Spinfits have put these just behind the MTW sound-wise.


----------



## episiarch

chinmie said:


> i also contacted them a few days ago about the possibility of changing transparency mode directly from the unit. they responded that if there's a great demand on it from other customers they would add it in.



I have Nuheara IQBuds on which the touch controls are pretty configurable, and transparency mode is by far my most used control. 

Now part of that is that Nuheara is primarily all about the transparency mode anyway. But nonetheless, when I'm on public transit and there's suddenly an announcement, or when I'm doing dishes and one of the kids comes up to me, the speed with which I can shift from blocking-it-all-out mode into world-aware mode is pretty important.


----------



## chinmie

episiarch said:


> I have Nuheara IQBuds on which the touch controls are pretty configurable, and transparency mode is by far my most used control.
> 
> Now part of that is that Nuheara is primarily all about the transparency mode anyway. But nonetheless, when I'm on public transit and there's suddenly an announcement, or when I'm doing dishes and one of the kids comes up to me, the speed with which I can shift from blocking-it-all-out mode into world-aware mode is pretty important.



yes, it's one of the reason why i kept my 65t for riding, because i can toggle ambient mode quickly. the way earin handles transparency mode, i think it would be better than the 65t for handling road noise..but currently no quick button change.

maybe all of M2 user here can email Earin to push them into making it possible (and also an EQ)


----------



## nc8000

chinmie said:


> yes, it's one of the reason why i kept my 65t for riding, because i can toggle ambient mode quickly. the way earin handles transparency mode, i think it would be better than the 65t for handling road noise..but currently no quick button change.
> 
> maybe all of M2 user here can email Earin to push them into making it possible (and also an EQ)



If you run transperency in auto mode on the M2 a single tap on either bud pauses music and turns on transperency, in my mind it can’t get any simpler than that


----------



## vladzakhar

After M2 FW update, the sound located right in the middle how it should be. Before it was more towards the master earbud. Sound wise I didn't notice the big difference, though. Didn't check the battery life yet. I hope it is true if it's close to 4 hours.


----------



## nc8000

vladzakhar said:


> After M2 FW update, the sound located right in the middle how it should be. Before it was more towards the master earbud. Sound wise I didn't notice the big difference, though. Didn't check the battery life yet. I hope it is true if it's close to 4 hours.



The honeymoon is over. The first use after the fw update gave me 3 hours 45 minutes but the latest 2 runs are back down at 3 hours 5-10 minutes.


----------



## korefuji

nc8000 said:


> The honeymoon is over. The first use after the fw update gave me 3 hours 45 minutes but the latest 2 runs are back down at 3 hours 5-10 minutes.



As you quoted, they didnt mention anything about battery, so just a fluke I imagine


----------



## vladzakhar

At least they fixed the stereo balance.


----------



## vladzakhar

This is why I have 2 sets of M2's. Never run out of battery.


----------



## nc8000

vladzakhar said:


> This is why I have 2 sets of M2's. Never run out of battery.



95% of the time 3 hours is enough but once a week I need 4 hours so bring the E8 and/or G1 as well


----------



## albau (Jan 14, 2019)

Any recommendations for a decent and small USB BT dongle that has AptX, Aptx HD and AAC for my Win 10 laptop? Built-in BT is abysmal and supports SBC only.

On a side note, I think I’ve got bewitched by MW07.  Got myself famed Beyerdynamic Aventho Wireless cans fully expecting to be blown away by their SQ vs MW07. I wasn’t expecting the diff like it’s the case with my wired AKG-K701 plus Creek hedamp, but still. In reality except for Beyers having obviously wider and more 3D soundstage and maybe a bit more resolution, to me MW07 beat ’em, granted by a small margin, in almost everything else, especially in overall clarity, energy and in detail in highs. Because Beyers support AptX HD I’m hoping that maybe it will improve the things. And, yes, I used Beyer’s fancy app to adapt DSP to my hearing. It made some subtle diffs for the better, but not all that earthshaking.


----------



## clerkpalmer

albau said:


> Any recommendations for a decent and small USB BT dongle that has AptX, Aptx HD and AAC for my Win 10 laptop? Built-in BT is abysmal and supports SBC only.
> 
> On a side note, I think I’ve got bewitched by MW07.  Got myself famed Beyerdynamic Aventho Wireless cans fully expecting to be blown away by their SQ vs MW07. I wasn’t expecting the diff like it’s the case with my wired AKG-K701 plus Creek hedamp, but still. In reality except for Beyers having obviously wider and more 3D soundstage and maybe a bit more resolution, to me MW07 beat ’em, granted by a small margin, in almost everything else, especially in clarity and detail in highs. Because Beyers support AptX HD I’m hoping that maybe it will improve the things. And, yes, I used Beyer’s fancy app to adapt DSP to my hearing. It made some subtle diffs for the better, but not all that earthshaking.



I was underwhelmed by the Aventho. Thought about reaching for the Amiron but they are just so huge it defeats the purpose of wireless.  I never A/B'd them with MW07 because I got rid of them, but I'm not surprised to hear your impressions.  I think the MW07 bests the MW50+ which is comparable to the aventho in price/features etc.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

vladzakhar said:


> This is why I have 2 sets of M2's. Never run out of battery.



I feel like "buying another pair of them" is the worst possible solution outside of "I soldered a USB port in so I can plug them in."


----------



## Spamateur

Any of you that have tried the Mavin Air-X, can you confirm it only comes with one size of tips? I read a review that mentioned there was only one set of tips included, which seems crazy.


----------



## kiwikozo

vladzakhar said:


> This is why I have 2 sets of M2's. Never run out of battery.



Signature confirms


----------



## mikp

Spamateur said:


> Any of you that have tried the Mavin Air-X, can you confirm it only comes with one size of tips? I read a review that mentioned there was only one set of tips included, which seems crazy.



I got
1 pair small sound tips
2 pair oval tips one small\medium other is medium
2 pair stabilisers.

Now use some foams on them,.


----------



## firewatersun

Eh, I can sorta see a place for two of an earset, especially with something like the MW07s, with one colorway per outfit. It's definitely not efficient and definitely decadent and unnecessary.

Speaking of, I do think the previous Louis Vuitton branded MW07s might have been a prototype. Here's a post from a Japanese site with a new pic that looks a bit better.

http://audioon.blog.jp/archives/1073686507.html

It's a bad pic, but looks like it might be the symbols etched/embossed onto an acrylic with some streaks of grey in it


----------



## chinmie

nc8000 said:


> If you run transperency in auto mode on the M2 a single tap on either bud pauses music and turns on transperency, in my mind it can’t get any simpler than that



not exactly the same. with the 65t we can toggle it even without ever stopping the music. there are several scenarios that really make being able to do that convenient. and the response from the Earin representative says they knew about it and could make it happen. they just want to make sure if there's enough request are made about it


----------



## webvan

I wish there was a way on the 65T to have "transparency+music" pause on the 65t when you double-tap, the current mode just activates transparency and mutes the music, I can't see the point of that TBH. The other option that keeps the music playing while activating transparency makes a little bit more sense although I never use it.


----------



## chinmie

vladzakhar said:


> This is why I have 2 sets of M2's. Never run out of battery.





nc8000 said:


> 95% of the time 3 hours is enough but once a week I need 4 hours so bring the E8 and/or G1 as well



looks like I'm not the only one carrying around two (or sometimes three) TWS daily




SomeGuyDude said:


> I feel like "buying another pair of them" is the worst possible solution outside of "I soldered a USB port in so I can plug them in."



yes, but given the state of battery life of that generation of TWS, it could be justified if we really love the sound 

i hope the next wave of the well known brands like Sony, M&D, Sennheiser, etc would make the jump past the 7 hour mark that the latest chifi could achieve (or even 10 hours like the Mavin air X)


----------



## hifi80sman

SomeGuyDude said:


> I feel like "buying another pair of them" is the worst possible solution outside of "I soldered a USB port in so I can plug them in."


Sometimes, I think I just read this thread to see what clever responses you'll come back with.  LOL!


----------



## vladzakhar

chinmie said:


> looks like I'm not the only one carrying around two (or sometimes three) TWS daily
> 
> 
> 
> ...


+1
Unfortunately, M-2 are too small for 7 hours battery.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

firewatersun said:


> Eh, I can sorta see a place for two of an earset, especially with something like the MW07s, with one colorway per outfit. It's definitely not efficient and definitely decadent and unnecessary.
> 
> Speaking of, I do think the previous Louis Vuitton branded MW07s might have been a prototype. Here's a post from a Japanese site with a new pic that looks a bit better.
> 
> ...



No product should ever, ever, _ever_ be such that one feels compelled to have two of them for purposes of "backup". Period.


----------



## kiwikozo

SomeGuyDude said:


> No product should ever, ever, _ever_ be such that one feels compelled to have two of them for purposes of "backup". Period.



Charging cables


----------



## SomeGuyDude

kiwikozo said:


> Charging cables



Do you keep a charging cable for when your other cable stops working every day?


----------



## kiwikozo

SomeGuyDude said:


> Do you keep a charging cable for when your other cable stops working every day?



Indeed, I bought a couple of those 5-pack usb c cables!


----------



## howdy

If I'm going camping or be away from power, ill bring my charger with and I can charge my gear quite a few times on one charge from the charger.


----------



## hifi80sman

Sad to say, but the MTW are going back.

- As others have indicated, the case will drain, drain, and drain some more.  After I charged it with the buds in there, used the buds for a few hours, placed them back in the charger, it was dead and buds were at like 15% 24 hours later.  I'm sure they started playing when I was sleeping.  Completely unacceptable.
- The all plastic construction has started to concern me.  If feels almost too light and susceptible to damage.  I noticed small micro scratches on the back plastic area of the charger (not from plugging int he cable, btw) and the earbuds look like they're made of the same type of plastic.  In contrast, the E8 actually look and feel more premium, while the MW07 are flat out the best in terms of materials.  I may go back to the E8/MW07 combo vs. the MTW/MW07.

The sound is good but I only have 14 days and I'm already starting to see signs these may not last.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

hifi80sman said:


> Sad to say, but the MTW are going back.
> 
> - As others have indicated, the case will drain, drain, and drain some more.  After I charged it with the buds in there, used the buds for a few hours, placed them back in the charger, it was dead and buds were at like 15% 24 hours later.  I'm sure they started playing when I was sleeping.  Completely unacceptable.
> - The all plastic construction has started to concern me.  If feels almost too light and susceptible to damage.  I noticed small micro scratches on the back plastic area of the charger (not from plugging int he cable, btw) and the earbuds look like they're made of the same type of plastic.  In contrast, the E8 actually look and feel more premium, while the MW07 are flat out the best in terms of materials.  I may go back to the E8/MW07 combo vs. the MTW/MW07.
> ...



I'm both saddened and relieved by this. Part of me really wanted the MTW to be the perfect solution, but I also am glad I don't need to worry about replacing my MW07 lol. 

All I got left is maybe buying the MW50+...


----------



## korefuji

Ha, glad I'm not the only one who returned them now. I guess they were more trouble than they're worth. The MW07 imo kicks ass, I just couldnt justify spending the money though, I mean they are epic. But, I hope it won't be long before the equivalent comes down in price and performance and matches the mw07. Worse case scenario I pick up another mw07 pair when I have more funds.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

korefuji said:


> Ha, glad I'm not the only one who returned them now. I guess they were more trouble than they're worth. The MW07 imo kicks ass, I just couldnt justify spending the money though, I mean they are epic. But, I hope it won't be long before the equivalent comes down in price and performance and matches the mw07. Worse case scenario I pick up another mw07 pair when I have more funds.



The MW07 has dropped to around $200-225 a few times. Keep your eyes peeled.


----------



## chinmie

SomeGuyDude said:


> Do you keep a charging cable for when your other cable stops working every day?



charging cables are different from TWS, as we only bring spares because the battery ran out, not because it breaks and needs replacing. i try not to buy the same exact TWS or any earphones twice if i could, but i did with the Sabbat, which i gave one for my son.

but with the case of @vladzakhar maybe he just like the sound so much and want a seamless/quick transition from one unit to the other when the battery's out

i carry two in my bag, usually one noise isolating (m2, o5, or 65t) and one open backed (sabbat).


----------



## kiwikozo

Where do you all get a chance to use your earphones / wireless headphones out?!?

I only get the time to use them at the gym and shopping. 

I've installed a custom sound system in my car.

When I'm at home I always use my headphones (PM-2) as they're quite literally perfect for me.


----------



## clerkpalmer

kiwikozo said:


> Where do you all get a chance to use your earphones / wireless headphones out?!?
> 
> I only get the time to use them at the gym and shopping.
> 
> ...


I have too many headphones and not enough time time.


----------



## howdy

hifi80sman said:


> Sad to say, but the MTW are going back.
> 
> - As others have indicated, the case will drain, drain, and drain some more.  After I charged it with the buds in there, used the buds for a few hours, placed them back in the charger, it was dead and buds were at like 15% 24 hours later.  I'm sure they started playing when I was sleeping.  Completely unacceptable.
> - The all plastic construction has started to concern me.  If feels almost too light and susceptible to damage.  I noticed small micro scratches on the back plastic area of the charger (not from plugging int he cable, btw) and the earbuds look like they're made of the same type of plastic.  In contrast, the E8 actually look and feel more premium, while the MW07 are flat out the best in terms of materials.  I may go back to the E8/MW07 combo vs. the MTW/MW07.
> ...


That sucks!
I don't want to jinks myself but I've had no battery issues so far. I do know what you mean by the earbuds being loose in the case and the case does feel cheesy.
When I put my Senns back into the case I never hit pause I put them back in while still playing and they just shut off.

On another note I keep thinking of getting the MW07 again and do more tip rolling to get that seal again. I sure do miss them!


----------



## alchemical

howdy said:


> That sucks!
> I don't want to jinks myself but I've had no battery issues so far. I do know what you mean by the earbuds being loose in the case and the case does feel cheesy.
> When I put my Senns back into the case I never hit pause I put them back in while still playing and they just shut off.
> 
> On another note I keep thinking of getting the MW07 again and do more tip rolling to get that seal again. I sure do miss them!


My MTW going back too, sadly. This is my second set and I'm having all the same issues - random case drain, left bud not charging to 100%, and now buds not auto-disconnecting when I put them in the case, and I know they're seated flush. Hugely disappointing.


----------



## Tommy C

kiwikozo said:


> Where do you all get a chance to use your earphones / wireless headphones out?!?.


I commute to work - about 30 mins each way.  A little bit at work and when out and about in the evening. 
I have a couple of full size cans at home that barely get enough time. 
To me, one reliable pair is all I need at this point. Had my trial and error with a bunch of stuff but overall I’m happy with what I have got.


----------



## donedj

Just returned the mtw yesterday. So I had them fully charged on Thursday. Didn't touch them until Saturday. Left earbud has 0% battery while right has 100%. Charging case light when pressed was full yellow. Didn't even bother to do anything else. Return requested and done. It is such a shame that this comes from Sennheiser. An amazing potential with short hand showing...


----------



## jfvny

kiwikozo said:


> Where do you all get a chance to use your earphones / wireless headphones out?!?


I use headphones while working too, so pretty much the whole day. 

But TWS is only for jogging for me. While I like the sound of my G1 TWS, they just can’t beat over ears in comfort and sound for extended use.


----------



## nc8000

kiwikozo said:


> Where do you all get a chance to use your earphones / wireless headphones out?!?
> 
> I only get the time to use them at the gym and shopping.
> 
> ...



Mostly for commuting. I have a 3-4 hour train and bus jouney each way


----------



## caprimulgus

Rickyearl said:


> More on the M2 -
> 
> No delay whatsoever playing my switch with a USB aptX LL bluetooth dongle.  MTW has a tiny bit of delay, most others (Bose, Jabra, IconX, Liberty Lite) had massive delay to the point they were unusable.  Only ones without delay so far are M2, E8, and the cheapie Aukey corded bluetooth buds I bought on Amazon for $15.  Not sure if that means the others don't support aptX LL and these 3 do, or not.



You using a Genki?

Curious. MTW support AptX-LL, but M2 and E8 do not list AptX-LL support! 

Do you have a device that supports AptX-LL and can select/indicate the codec in use? Would be interesting to see if they do actually support AptX-LL, or whether they just have very low latency over whatever codec they are using! (If they have less latency over AptX than the MTW do over AptX-LL, that would be a curious result indeed!)


----------



## hifi80sman

howdy said:


> That sucks!
> I don't want to jinks myself but I've had no battery issues so far. I do know what you mean by the earbuds being loose in the case and the case does feel cheesy.
> When I put my Senns back into the case I never hit pause I put them back in while still playing and they just shut off.
> 
> On another note I keep thinking of getting the MW07 again and do more tip rolling to get that seal again. I sure do miss them!


What’s interesting, is the E8 had a tricky fit, but I was able to cure that using the MTW tips.  Give that a shot and see if it works for the MW07.

The other thing I appreciate about the MW07, is they feel like they’re made to last.  Aside from the acetate, the earbud casing is steel.  Even though the case is prone to scratching, it’ still metal and durable, even if the finish gets worn (although most will probably baby it anyway).

I liked the MTW, but I started to see some “signs”, just like with some past GFs.  Oh, you’re waiting for me at my house already?!  LOL!


----------



## hifi80sman

caprimulgus said:


> You using a Genki?
> 
> Curious. MTW support AptX-LL, but M2 and E8 do not list AptX-LL support!
> 
> Do you have a device that supports AptX-LL and can select/indicate the codec in use? Would be interesting to see if they do actually support AptX-LL, or whether they just have very low latency over whatever codec they are using! (If they have less latency over AptX than the MTW do over AptX-LL, that would be a curious result indeed!)


YouTube encodes in AAC, so that could be one (of many) reasons latency is good even if AptX isn’t used.


----------



## BigZ12 (Jan 15, 2019)

New curious problem with the Senn' MTWs
The left bud is VERY sensitive to external disruptions (Not sure how to describe it better)
When I walk past my 4 years old plasma-screen in my bedroom, the left bud crackles or just disconnects.
When I turn on the little fluorescent lighting in my kitchen, the MTWs are reacting with crackles or a short dropout.
When I'm in my nearest grocery store, there's something around the cashier that make the MTWs go "wild"... dropouts, crackling or just "give up" and disconnects...
There have been other similar experiences, but didn't know that could be external noise that affected the MTWs.
Any other who have experienced this?


----------



## mikp

Ouch that MandarinE was fiddly to get on.


----------



## Rickyearl

I played with this a bunch last night, and as far as pure volume/ability to get loud goes, its M2>>MTW>E8.  On pure clarity and detail, it’s exactly the opposite E8>MTW>M2, though the gaps are much smaller between the three.  

For bass, M2>MTW>>E8. Even if I hold the E8 and my ear just right.

None of those are weird results to me.  But this is. On soundstage, MTW>>E8>M2.  However, on pure separation, M2>MTW>E8.   The M2 makes the instruments sound very separate L to R, but there’s no space to it - like each instrument is sitting on top of each other.  But there’s such a clear L/R divide-more so than in either of the other two.  It kinda makes things sound unblended at times if that makes any sense.


----------



## hifi80sman

BigZ12 said:


> New curious problem with the Senn' MTWs
> The left bud is VERY sensitive to external disruptions (Not sure how to describe it better)
> When I walk past my 4 years old plasma-screen in my bedroom, the left bud crackles or just disconnects.
> When I turn on the little fluorescent lighting in my kitchen, the MTWs are reacting with crackles or a short dropout.
> ...


Interesting article that may shed some light (pun intended).
https://www.wirebiters.com/fluorescent-lights-mess-wifi-signal/


----------



## Rickyearl

caprimulgus said:


> You using a Genki?
> 
> Curious. MTW support AptX-LL, but M2 and E8 do not list AptX-LL support!
> 
> Do you have a device that supports AptX-LL and can select/indicate the codec in use? Would be interesting to see if they do actually support AptX-LL, or whether they just have very low latency over whatever codec they are using! (If they have less latency over AptX than the MTW do over AptX-LL, that would be a curious result indeed!)



There are a lot of sellers on Amazon that appear to be selling the same thing but the box says "Gulikit Route +"  Here's one:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07G49WFVK/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00__o00_s00?ie=UTF8&th=1

It's a little finicky to connect to but once connected it works fine - increases the battery drain on the Switch by 15-20%, which means I never have to worry about the wireless IEMs running out of battery before the Switch does.   

You have a point - I don't know that it's using AptX-LL, just that it _says_ it uses AptX-LL.  Don't know how I'd confirm that.


----------



## Rickyearl

BigZ12 said:


> New curious problem with the Senn' MTWs
> The left bud is VERY sensitive to external disruptions (Not sure how to describe it better)
> When I walk past my 4 years old plasma-screen in my bedroom, the left bud crackles or just disconnects.
> When I turn on the little fluorescent lighting in my kitchen, the MTWs are reacting with crackles or a short dropout.
> ...




No plasma screens anymore, but in my office I sit next (less than 2 feet) to over-monitor fluorescent tube lights and have not noticed any issues.  

The Earins definitely have a problem cutting out when you go through those glass auto-open sliding grocery store doors, but it might be the actual bluetooth connection.  Haven't done that with the MTW to compare.


----------



## Spamateur

alchemical said:


> My MTW going back too, sadly. This is my second set and I'm having all the same issues - random case drain, left bud not charging to 100%, and now buds not auto-disconnecting when I put them in the case, and I know they're seated flush. Hugely disappointing.



Ditto for me. Called Digital River (again) to initiate the return process. If I can't rely on the case and earpieces losing battery life on their own, that's an immediate no-go for me. I sold my Jabra 65t a few days ago, but those were rock solid with battery life. I didn't touch them for 2 weeks and they were still fully charged, both case and earbuds.


----------



## WesennTony

Rickyearl said:


> No plasma screens anymore, but in my office I sit next (less than 2 feet) to over-monitor fluorescent tube lights and have not noticed any issues.
> 
> The Earins definitely have a problem cutting out when you go through those glass auto-open sliding grocery store doors, but it might be the actual bluetooth connection.  Haven't done that with the MTW to compare.


The MW07s have the same problem passing through the auto-open doors.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

Rickyearl said:


> I played with this a bunch last night, and as far as pure volume/ability to get loud goes, its M2>>MTW>E8.  On pure clarity and detail, it’s exactly the opposite E8>MTW>M2, though the gaps are much smaller between the three.
> 
> For bass, M2>MTW>>E8. Even if I hold the E8 and my ear just right.
> 
> None of those are weird results to me.  But this is. On soundstage, MTW>>E8>M2.  However, on pure separation, M2>MTW>E8.   The M2 makes the instruments sound very separate L to R, but there’s no space to it - like each instrument is sitting on top of each other.  But there’s such a clear L/R divide-more so than in either of the other two.  It kinda makes things sound unblended at times if that makes any sense.



I swear something is ****y with a lot of people and the e8 because, while I can't say I've heard the e8, it could be THUNDEROUSLY bassy and the separation was excellent.


----------



## turbobb

Rickyearl said:


> You have a point - I don't know that it's using AptX-LL, just that it _says_ it uses AptX-LL.  Don't know how I'd confirm that.



If you have access to an Android phone with Developer Options enabled, you'll be able to verify whether it really has that codec.


----------



## Rickyearl

turbobb said:


> If you have access to an Android phone with Developer Options enabled, you'll be able to verify whether it really has that codec.


 How will that tell me if the Switch dongle has AptX-LL?


----------



## robcf3 (Jan 15, 2019)

Just received the RHA Trueconnects and the sibilance is really bad at moderately high volumes...is that just inevitable or is there a way round it (on Android)?

May be worth noting this is mainly in metal, so if anyone has suggestions for true wireless headphones that cope well in terms of that and also are loud, would be appreciated! Will try these for the time being and hope I wear them in.


----------



## clerkpalmer

robcf3 said:


> Just received the RHA Trueconnects and the sibilance is really bad at moderately high volumes...is that just inevitable or is there a way round it (on Android)?


Did you try the foam tips?


----------



## robcf3

clerkpalmer said:


> Did you try the foam tips?


Not yet, will try later and see if it's any better.


----------



## clerkpalmer

robcf3 said:


> Not yet, will try later and see if it's any better.



I think they will help. I didn't notice any sibliance but they are brighter than some I've heard. Good luck.


----------



## Spamateur

robcf3 said:


> Just received the RHA Trueconnects and the sibilance is really bad at moderately high volumes...is that just inevitable or is there a way round it (on Android)?



There are Android apps that basically have system-wide EQ running in the background. However, they are somewhat limited in function.


----------



## webvan

Rickyearl said:


> How will that tell me if the Switch dongle has AptX-LL?



With Android 8/Oreo in the developer settings you will see if the setting "sticks" when you exit come back to that menu. In Android 9/Pie this info is directly visible in the Bluetooth settings of the device.


----------



## Spamateur

mikp said:


> Ouch that MandarinE was fiddly to get on.



What are all the tips you've tried with the Air-X? I ordered a pair last night from Mavin's website and I doubt the medium size tips will work with my ears.


----------



## robcf3

clerkpalmer said:


> I think they will help. I didn't notice any sibliance but they are brighter than some I've heard. Good luck.


Literally night and day - thanks for the tip (pun not intended)!


----------



## mikp

Spamateur said:


> What are all the tips you've tried with the Air-X? I ordered a pair last night from Mavin's website and I doubt the medium size tips will work with my ears.



The foam "t400" aliexpress variant, the mandarin and some random ones I had (kz wide bore?) . Checked the original tip, and its around 5.5mm wide bore, did not have many spares that matched.


----------



## Nikostr8

any tws worth to pick under 100?


----------



## korefuji

maybe havit g1, or sabbat x12?


----------



## nc8000

Nikostr8 said:


> any tws worth to pick under 100?



I would say the Havit G1, but that is also the only one in that price range I have trief


----------



## hifi80sman

Nikostr8 said:


> any tws worth to pick under 100?


I just ordered these today.  Same-Day Amazon, so we'll see what they sound like and how the connection is.  I "needed" something for the pool, or whatever excuse I can think of when my wife asks me why I ordered ANOTHER TWE.  I mean, duh, I can't wear the MW07 by the pool.  They look pretty snazzy.  I found a promo code (RYOE2348) for $10 off, so low risk.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07H7KSMLG/


----------



## Rickyearl

hifi80sman said:


> I just ordered these today.  Same-Day Amazon, so we'll see what they sound like and how the connection is.  I "needed" something for the pool, or whatever excuse I can think of when my wife asks me why I ordered ANOTHER TWE.  I mean, duh, I can't wear the MW07 by the pool.  They look pretty snazzy.  I found a promo code (RYOE2348) for $10 off, so low risk.
> https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07H7KSMLG/



Are these the same ones that Monoprice rebranded?  They look like those.


----------



## Boreaquis

I feel  like Sabbat X12 is the king of budget TWs. As long as you're fine with earbuds rather than IEMs, the specs are excellent for roughly $40.


----------



## Spamateur

mikp said:


> The foam "t400" aliexpress variant, the mandarin and some random ones I had (kz wide bore?) . Checked the original tip, and its around 5.5mm wide bore, did not have many spares that matched.



Thanks! I have a few sets of KZ IEMs sitting around I'll have to raid for tip rolling purposes.


----------



## webvan

Nikostr8 said:


> any tws worth to pick under 100?



As others have said, Sabbat (aka Leziii among others) X12 Pro if you want to be aware of your environment or Havit G1 if you want some isolation. Both good value for money. If I had to keep one it would be the X12 for the (by design) transparency, volume settings and overall comfort.


----------



## caprimulgus

webvan said:


> With Android 8/Oreo in the developer settings you will see if the setting "sticks" when you exit come back to that menu. In Android 9/Pie this info is directly visible in the Bluetooth settings of the device.



Does android allow the phone to work as a bluetooth receiver? Cause you'd need the Switch transmitter to be the transmitter and the phone to be the receiver?


----------



## MulberryMadness

hifi80sman said:


> I just ordered these today.   I "needed" something for the pool...  They look pretty snazzy.  I found a promo code (RYOE2348) for $10 off, so low risk.
> https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07H7KSMLG/



^^^ low capacity battery @50mah, not using a varta, wish vendors would all dump the 50-60mah button li-ion, and go for larger dia 1454 of 1654 Varta 3rd gen, 85ma & 120ma 14mm & 16mm dia, 5.4mm thickness...now if Varta would just make a 12mm button cell that was say 7mm thick, you'd be able to put those in an Earin or similar super small size, with 5100 series in side, should get some decent runtimes.

Looking at Qualcomm, last year mentioning Samsung's euv process @7nm in a Fab they were building; for 5g modem's & newest snapdragon SoC, guessing Qualcomm is using cheaper/older 10nm or 14nm process on the 5100 series (since they were announced early last year). Next year, or even later this year, with 7nm process being applied to the audio SoC's, we could get another 20% boost in battery life (all things being equal, as the 5100 is not the only power draw, drivers would likely be the main power drain).

Wonder why so many are eager to get the Mavin Air-X, when the Air-ANC is supposed to ship 1Q '19 according to the PR, given ANC, v. likely Marvin Air-ANC will use a 5100 series chip as they have mentioned in this PR from Jan 3: https://www.prweb.com/releases/air_...6_soc_showcases_at_ces_2019/prweb16009911.htm

"Air-X is the result of the constant pursuit for the ultimate TrueWireless audio experience. With Mavin’s close collaboration with Qualcomm (QCC3026 SoC), Air-X surpassed many technical barriers and brought the ultimate audio experience to life. Mavin will build on this partnership and continue to integrate Qualcomm’s technology (Qualcomm *QCC5124, QCC5121* and QCC3020 SoC ) into its future solutions based on user requirements (ex. Gaming, VR, Amazon AVS, *ANC* etc.)    "


----------



## mikp (Jan 15, 2019)

because its available now..will be getting a qcc5100 version also

Also qualcomm true wireless stereo plus seems to require android pie, maybe thats why it is not working on my lg g7.


----------



## hifi80sman

Rickyearl said:


> Are these the same ones that Monoprice rebranded?  They look like those.


No, similar, but not quite.  These are angled, while Monoprice is not.


----------



## chinmie

Nikostr8 said:


> any tws worth to pick under 100?





webvan said:


> As others have said, Sabbat (aka Leziii among others) X12 Pro if you want to be aware of your environment or Havit G1 if you want some isolation. Both good value for money. If I had to keep one it would be the X12 for the (by design) transparency, volume settings and overall comfort.



also to add to the already great suggestions, the Mifo o5 is also under 100 and a really great performer. haven't tried the pro version, but my standard version is really nice sounding and i purchased it at around 48 usd. i had it for two weeks now and i haven't charge the case again since it arrived


----------



## Inear

Anyone tried out the Soudcore (Anker brand) Liberty Air?

https://www.soundcore.com/products/variant/liberty-air/A3902011

For $70.00 doesn't seem to bad. B.T 5.0, with auto connect/disconnect. Also, reviews on reddit and Anker forum seem descent.


----------



## hifi80sman

Inear said:


> Anyone tried out the Soudcore (Anker brand) Liberty Air?
> 
> https://www.soundcore.com/products/variant/liberty-air/A3902011
> 
> For $70.00 doesn't seem to bad. B.T 5.0, with auto connect/disconnect. Also, reviews on reddit and Anker forum seem descent.


I had it and thought it was pretty good.  I ended up returning them to get the Liberty+, but I actually thought the regular Liberty was better for my tastes (a little warmer, more bass).  The Liberty+ sounded cleaner, but the App was pretty useless with crappy presets.  It did not let you EQ via frequency bands.  The Liberty+ case was also metal, but overall, the standard Liberty is a better value.


----------



## Inear (Jan 15, 2019)

hifi80sman said:


> I had it and thought it was pretty good.  I ended up returning them to get the Liberty+, but I actually thought the regular Liberty was better for my tastes (a little warmer, more bass).  The Liberty+ sounded cleaner, but the App was pretty useless with crappy presets.  It did not let you EQ via frequency bands.  The Liberty+ case was also metal, but overall, the standard Liberty is a better value.




Thanks. I'm looking to get those or wait a lil it and see if the Xiaomi Airdots Pro, come to the U.S they hit the FCC back in November.  They were recently released in China, but seem to be sold out everywhere. I've owned Xiaomi headphones before and they were great. The only thing that bothers me is that they are B.T 4.2. What made you return it btw? How was the call quality and connectivity?

https://www.techradar.com/news/xiaomi-airdots-listed-in-fcc-document


----------



## Spamateur

MulberryMadness said:


> Wonder why so many are eager to get the Mavin Air-X, when the Air-ANC is supposed to ship 1Q '19 according to the PR, given ANC, v. likely Marvin Air-ANC will use a 5100 series chip as they have mentioned in this PR from Jan 3:



Not everyone cares about ANC. I'm more interested in sound quality than I am concerned about which Qualcomm SoC it's using as long as battery life is good and I can use TrueWireless Stereo Plus. Personally, I've never heard an ANC implementation that didn't cause me discomfort.


----------



## turbobb

caprimulgus said:


> Does android allow the phone to work as a bluetooth receiver? Cause you'd need the Switch transmitter to be the transmitter and the phone to be the receiver?



Actually you're right, it won't allow the phone to act as an Rx so what I suggested to @Rickyearl won't work...


----------



## chinmie

ambient mode is far more useful than ANC for me. with passive isolation alone is enough for md daily use. ambient more however, i wish all my tws have it


----------



## battosai

nerdydaddyo said:


> Thanks. My current set are the HD1 Free. I guess that would make it HD1F.
> 
> As far as MTW, those were on the radar for possible next purchase. Waiting to see if my Xfyro Arias ever arrive first.


Received my Arias today!
First impressions: very warm sounding, not bad at all, comfort is good, case is cheaply made (won't last)


----------



## hifi80sman

Inear said:


> Thanks. I'm looking to get those or wait a lil it and see if the Xiaomi Airdots Pro, come to the U.S they hit the FCC back in November.  They were recently released in China, but seem to be sold out everywhere. I've owned Xiaomi headphones before and they were great. The only thing that bothers me is that they are B.T 4.2. What made you return it btw? How was the call quality and connectivity?
> 
> https://www.techradar.com/news/xiaomi-airdots-listed-in-fcc-document


There was nothing wrong with them, I just decided to use those funds and invest in the Master & Dynamic MW07 instead.  Just going off memory, call quality seemed fine in a quiet office (I have my own office, so I'm not around a bunch of cubicles), but it was not as good as my Bose SoundSport Free, which have very good call quality.  I usually test the call quality by calling myself and changing my VM greeting (but I don't save it of course!).


----------



## nc8000

chinmie said:


> ambient mode is far more useful than ANC for me. with passive isolation alone is enough for md daily use. ambient more however, i wish all my tws have it



Totally agree which in the end is why I wont be using the Havit G1 as they dont have ambient despite them in all other areas being good and very good for their price


----------



## jfvny

technically, earphones with ANC should easily be able to enable a transparency mode tho, so here’s hoping the new mavins have both


----------



## hifi80sman (Jan 16, 2019)

Been listening to these for about an hour or so and honestly, I like these things (Kissral Bluetooth 5.0 True Wireless Earbuds).  Much better than what I was expecting.

PROS
- Bass is strong, deep, with some texture.  Not a punchy mid-high bass, so low end sounds cleaner.
- The sound is NOT muddy.  Totally shocked here.  It's actually a clean V-shaped signature.  Usually, I have to EQ a bit to get them sounding passable.  Out of the box, these sound, dare I say it, fairly good.
- Buds magnetically attach to the case base, as does the lid.
- Although entirely plastic, they feel solid and fabrication is good.

CONS
- Highs are slightly sharp around the 10 kHz region, but again, just slightly.
- SBC only.  A bit of graininess in some of the upper registers, but nothing offensive.
- Slightly higher noise floor, but mostly unnoticeable when music is playing.
- Micro USB.
- Stock ear tips are a bit narrow and didn't fit me, so I had to switch them with a pair of the dozens I have lying around.
- With the larger, wider ear tips, I have to push the buds down a bit more for them to come in contact with the charging prongs.  Lid still closes nicely.

Overall, at $29 (with promo code, regularly $39), these are a keeper.  I can see myself using these AND enjoying the music in environments I can't bring some of my more costly TWEs.


----------



## RobinFood

jfvny said:


> technically, earphones with ANC should easily be able to enable a transparency mode tho, so here’s hoping the new mavins have both



Since all TWE earphones have microphones, they should all somehow be able to have an equivalent to transparency mode. I wonder if they could all turn it into a thing with a firmware update.

I did notice that not all TWE with transparency mode list it in their features. Those who have transparency enabled TWE, would you mind sharing the model you have?


----------



## KarimLeVallois

WOW! Just received my MW07 and I much prefer the sound to my E8 that I've been using for commuting the past year or so.


----------



## Rickyearl

My E8, MTW, and Earin M2 all have transparency.  Soundcore Liberty Lite does not.  

Another weird thing on the Soundcore Liberty Lite (as well as some of the lower end ChiFi I’ve tried) is that putting in case does not turn them off automatically.  They keep playing until they get no signal for a few minutes.  

I mention this because the MTWs tend to do the same.  That combined with a few other things they share (identical voice and voice prompts, the sometimes one isn’t charged issue, the weird discharge when you move the case) makes me wonder if Senn was in a hurry to rush these out so they skimped and just bought a bit of the “infrastructure” from a ChiFi vendor.


----------



## webvan

chinmie said:


> ambient mode is far more useful than ANC for me. with passive isolation alone is enough for md daily use. ambient more however, i wish all my tws have it


Well having ANC never hurts, thing is I'm not aware of any IEMs (wired or BT) that have been able to implement an efficient ANC mode. Actually other than the WF1000x/SP700 are there any other IEMs with passive isolation out there with ANC ? ANC works really well on the QC20 and QC30 but they're earbuds really, same with the TaoTronics EP-01.


----------



## chinmie

webvan said:


> Well having ANC never hurts, thing is I'm not aware of any IEMs (wired or BT) that have been able to implement an efficient ANC mode. Actually other than the WF1000x/SP700 are there any other IEMs with passive isolation out there with ANC ? ANC works really well on the QC20 and QC30 but they're earbuds really, same with the TaoTronics EP-01.



isn't the QC20 and 30 closed seal iem style? when i refer to earbuds, it's always the open sounding/non isolating ones like earpods (like the ones on the "Earbuds Round-Up" thread here on headfi. 

the Sony WI1000X is also worth considering


----------



## jfvny

came across this pair of chi fi TWS with a *vibrating *case: https://item.jd.com/100002354800.html

just in case anyone's, errr , interested


----------



## hifi80sman

KarimEshan said:


> WOW! Just received my MW07 and I much prefer the sound to my E8 that I've been using for commuting the past year or so.


Glad you're enjoying them!  They are the consensus best sounding TWE currently on the market.  No nonsense TWEs.  Wireless, great sound, no fuss controls, and fabulous looks.  The only issue is battery life may be shorter than quoted if you listen loud.  Under 50% volume, you'll probably get around 3 hours or so.


----------



## chinmie

jfvny said:


> came across this pair of chi fi TWS with a *vibrating *case: https://item.jd.com/100002354800.html
> 
> just in case anyone's, errr , interested



why is it vibrating? is it to tell the battery level? phone call? i can't understand because the description is in the picture, so can't use translation


----------



## webvan

chinmie said:


> isn't the QC20 and 30 closed seal iem style? when i refer to earbuds, it's always the open sounding/non isolating ones like earpods (like the ones on the "Earbuds Round-Up" thread here on headfi.
> 
> the Sony WI1000X is also worth considering



No the QC20 and QC30 are an open design which makes them easy/pleasant to wear but they offer no passive isolation. I looked up the WI1000X and they do seem to have decent passive isolation (possibly like the WF-1000x) so it would be interesting to get some feedback from people who've actually used it.


----------



## WesennTony

chinmie said:


> why is it vibrating? is it to tell the battery level? phone call? i can't understand because the description is in the picture, so can't use translation


From the description: Open the case: vibrating once; Close the case: vibrating once; Open the case 3 times: vibrating continuously; Take out the earbuds: vibrating three times; Charge the earbud: vibrating once;  Earbud charging complete: vibrating three times; Charge the case: vibrating three times; Case charging complete: vibrating once every 30 seconds, up to 3 times.

Very confusing, indeed. Interesting in the title it says for both men and women. Some Chinese joke about the special use for ladies, considering the cylindrical case and vibration....


----------



## Rickyearl

WesennTony said:


> Some Chinese joke about the special use for ladies, considering the cylindrical case and vibration....



Those madcap Chifi guys...


----------



## jfvny

chinmie said:


> why is it vibrating? is it to tell the battery level? phone call? i can't understand because the description is in the picture, so can't use translation


ah sorry, but yeah, WesennTony covered it lol
here's a youtube video on the vibration too:


----------



## hifi80sman

Without further ado, the Jabra Elite 65t knockoffs:
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07K8Q3QWP/

Thinking about buying them!  Somebody stop me!


----------



## jfvny

hifi80sman said:


> Without further ado, the Jabra Elite 65t knockoffs:
> https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07K8Q3QWP/
> 
> Thinking about buying them!  Somebody stop me!


these look pretty good! too bad they didn't copy the ambient mode too


----------



## Rickyearl

hifi80sman said:


> Without further ado, the Jabra Elite 65t knockoffs:
> https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07K8Q3QWP/
> 
> Thinking about buying them!  Somebody stop me!



Do it!  I wanna see the lightning!


----------



## hifi80sman

Rickyearl said:


> Do it!  I wanna see the lightning!


A literal lightning connection!  Sold!

Man, I am curious though!  Someone please buy it and provide some feedback.


----------



## howdy

Anyone that does not like or wants there MW07 I would trade my E8s for them. Just throwing it out there, just PM with any intrests so not to bring this OT.
Can't stop thinking of getting the MW07 back. Still completely happy with the Senns but still thinking of the MW07.


----------



## Rickyearl

howdy said:


> Anyone that does not like or wants there MW07 I would trade my E8s for them. Just throwing it out there, just PM with any intrests so not to bring this OT.
> Can't stop thinking of getting the MW07 back. Still completely happy with the Senns but still thinking of the MW07.


I am in exactly the same place.


----------



## turbobb

But then who'd give us those little mini write up's? Only way to satisfy GAS ia to succumb to it... Lol


hifi80sman said:


> Without further ado, the Jabra Elite 65t knockoffs:
> https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07K8Q3QWP/
> 
> Thinking about buying them!  Somebody stop me!



Just do it! (sorry i'm in the enablers camp... lol)

Actually in terms of looks, I think this one is actually closer to the 65t:
https://smile.amazon.com/Wireless-Earbuds-Bluetooth-Headphones-Microphone/dp/B07L11DK42

Less than 10 mins left for their lightning deal...


----------



## mikp

Got an a


turbobb said:


> Bah, just tested it again carefully with the Note 9 and couldn't get it to connect to both. While I am able to pair each one individually, as soon as I turn back on the L, it'll ask for the R to pair again (even though it's paired already). If I don't pair it then it removes it from the list and it won't connect to L. So either/or:
> - Qualcomm misstated TWS+ support on the QCC3020/6 spec sheet
> - Mfg using these chips didn't enable it
> 
> ...



Got a reply from qualcomm, and 3026 should have stereo plus but it is up to device manufacturer. Have no pie phone (845) to test it on


----------



## turbobb (Jan 16, 2019)

@mikp - thx for update, so I guess sadly these ChiFi mfr's are not enabling it... I just got the Romeo 07R w/QCC3001, only has AAC but sadly suffers from random dropouts too but not as bad as the QC3026 in the Mpow. The other BT5 ChiFi's have been pretty darn good connectivity wise. Current fav's remain the Aermoo B3 and the Taotronics TT-BH052.

Attached pics show some of the ChiFi units I've been testing (Bose SSF and AirPods as refernce for size | not shown: Etoli BS205FI, Taotronics TT-BH052, Romeo 07R).


----------



## chinmie

WesennTony said:


> From the description: Open the case: vibrating once; Close the case: vibrating once; Open the case 3 times: vibrating continuously; Take out the earbuds: vibrating three times; Charge the earbud: vibrating once;  Earbud charging complete: vibrating three times; Charge the case: vibrating three times; Case charging complete: vibrating once every 30 seconds, up to 3 times.
> 
> Very confusing, indeed. Interesting in the title it says for both men and women. Some Chinese joke about the special use for ladies, considering the cylindrical case and vibration....



that would be one annoying tws case (or pleasure inducing, depends on the person  ￼￼￼)


----------



## clerkpalmer

howdy said:


> Can't stop thinking of getting the MW07 back. Still completely happy with the Senns but still thinking of the MW07.



I went back to MW07. If they didn’t exist, I would think the MTW was the greatest TW on the planet. Damn you M&D with you high price and false battery advertising!  But that sound ...


----------



## howdy

clerkpalmer said:


> I went back to MW07. If they didn’t exist, I would think the MTW was the greatest TW on the planet. Damn you M&D with you high price and false battery advertising!  But that sound ...


I hear ya!
I still have a lot of love for the Senns and finally have the EQ set to what I think is pretty damn good. But the MW07 have a clarity that no other BT has. 
I really like the E8s as well but the MW07 is more to my liking.


----------



## clerkpalmer

howdy said:


> I hear ya!
> I still have a lot of love for the Senns and finally have the EQ set to what I think is pretty damn good. But the MW07 have a clarity that no other BT has.
> I really like the E8s as well but the MW07 is more to my liking.


How do you have you me eq? Mine is up about a half inch and right about a half inch.


----------



## howdy

clerkpalmer said:


> How do you have you me eq? Mine is up about a half inch and right about a half inch.


I'll take a screen shot of it tomorrow as it would be easier than me trying to describe it.


----------



## turbobb (Jan 20, 2019)

Just came across these while browsing Amazon: https://smile.amazon.com/Jaybird-Wireless-Headphones-Black-Flash/dp/B07MC1QCHW (to be released 1/29).

A Google search shows that there should be a product page on Jaybird's website (https://www.jaybirdsport.com/en-us/staging/run-xt-true-wireless-sport-headphones.html) but clicking on the link yields a 404... Guess it's not announced yet. 

On paper specs look decent:

12 hours of play time with charging case - Internal rechargeable battery offers 4 hours of play time per charge with an additional 8 hours of charge in the case.
Sweat- and waterproof (IPX7) - double hydrophobic Nano-coating for sweat- and waterproof performance.
Sport fit - interchangeable silicone tips & fins provide a comfortable, secure fit in any ear size.
Fast-charge battery - five minutes of charging provides 1 hour of play time.
Premium sound with custom EQ - a unique, personalized music experience.

EDIT: Found another color: https://smile.amazon.com/Jaybird-Wireless-Headphones-Storm-Glacier/dp/B07MSLF5YC


----------



## alchemical

turbobb said:


> Just came across these while browsing Amazon: https://smile.amazon.com/Jaybird-Wireless-Headphones-Black-Flash/dp/B07MC1QCHW (to be released 1/29).
> 
> A Google search shows that there should be a product page on Jaybird's website (https://www.jaybirdsport.com/en-us/staging/run-xt-true-wireless-sport-headphones.html) but clicking on the link yields a 404... Guess it's not announced yet.  https://www.jaybirdsport.com/en-us/staging/run-xt-true-wireless-sport-headphones.html
> 
> ...


Nice find. Given how often I use my first gen pair for running, really keen to see if these are much of an upgrade other than full waterproofing, as battery specs look the same. Hope they’re USB-C.


----------



## turbobb

alchemical said:


> Nice find. Given how often I use my first gen pair for running, really keen to see if these are much of an upgrade other than full waterproofing, as battery specs look the same. Hope they’re USB-C.


I've been a fan of Jaybird's original Bluebuds X and then the X2 (although they're both slightly bright). I've read a lot of negative reviews about the Run's connection issues. How are yours holding up? I'm really interested in these if they carry the same sound sig.


----------



## alchemical

turbobb said:


> I've been a fan of Jaybird's original Bluebuds X and then the X2 (although they're both slightly bright). I've read a lot of negative reviews about the Run's connection issues. How are yours holding up? I'm really interested in these if they carry the same sound sig.


I absolutely love them. When the RUN was first released connection was very spotty (which unfortunately but understandably all the reviews picked up on). Then Jaybird released a firmware upgrade some time after, and I don’t know what they changed but it fixed the issues. Only dropouts I get now are in areas around the city where all my bluetooth headphones suffer some kind of interference. For the large part they work flawlessly. Conversely my X3s, back when I had them, suffered dropouts all the time.


----------



## DynamicEars (Jan 17, 2019)

What is the most value and budget chifi TWS we can buy right now? i mean the best sounding among very low price? I didnt research before but just bought a pair unintended out of casual shop browsing, the QTC T1 for $18 and sounds good / OK, cant complain for this price, but its higher than my expectations, v shaped off course, a bit mid bass bleed but just a little bit, not sound muddy, mids quite clear and not bad treble . Just want to know is there any better value (good sounding around this price or a bit higher one). I dont want to buy decent expensive tws right now as the technology is still developing more and more. Will buy a decent one once we have very good battery life, so just limit myself to sub$50 this time around. Thanks in advance


----------



## turbobb (Jan 17, 2019)

@alchemical - thx! Was hoping to hear something like that as I did read subsequent updates improved the connection issues. Might just take a chance on these RT's...

@DynamicEars - based on personal experience and under $50, my recommendations would be:
- Eancrys BLACK (yeah that's the name...) w/BT5 and IPX7. These are amazing sounding with good range for $20.99, a HUGE caveat is that the stalks are really short and I can't quite get the left ear to fit perfectly. I'm looking for those extended double-flange tips to see if that solves the issue. But again, of what I can hear, the SQ is really really good for the price.
- Aermoo B3 (there are also other ChiFi units using the same style earpieces) for $39.99. It also has BT5 and IPX7. Has great range with deep impactful bass (but of course, if that's not your thing then the Eancrys might be better choice).

Both only feature SBC but a pretty decent implementation of it if only very slightly grainy.


----------



## raheelc

Received my MW07 and they sound awesome! They have a level of detail that I haven't heard from any of the other TW earbuds I've tried! That being said, I am getting some hissing/static in the buds when there is no music playing? Is this normal? Or should i return/exchange them and try for another pair? Also, when using the volume buttons on the earbud, is there any sort of audible sound you hear when you've set the volume to max (like the Jabra's give you that double click sound)?

Also, regarding the Jabra's, I have the active 65t, and it seems like there may be a slight imbalance in the buds, with the left side being slightly stronger. However, I only notice it when the earbuds say "connected" or "disconnected". While listening to music, I don't perceive any sort of imbalance. However, there is some static/hissing when there is no music playing? Should I return/exchange these as well for another pair and try my luck?


----------



## clerkpalmer

raheelc said:


> Received my MW07 and they sound awesome! They have a level of detail that I haven't heard from any of the other TW earbuds I've tried! That being said, I am getting some hissing/static in the buds when there is no music playing? Is this normal? Or should i return/exchange them and try for another pair? Also, when using the volume buttons on the earbud, is there any sort of audible sound you hear when you've set the volume to max (like the Jabra's give you that double click sound)?



I have lamented about left side hiss on several mw07 units. My current pair has very slight hiss and iscbetter than my earliest ones. I can live with it. M&D will tell you it's a known issue and probably exchange them if you ask. As for the volume toggles, no sounds.


----------



## raheelc

clerkpalmer said:


> I have lamented about left side hiss on several mw07 units. My current pair has very slight hiss and iscbetter than my earliest ones. I can live with it. M&D will tell you it's a known issue and probably exchange them if you ask. As for the volume toggles, no sounds.



Thanks for the info. I mentioned this earlier, but I bought these off ebay, and from another member's post (think it actually may have been one of your posts) M&D will not warranty/exchange earbuds that were bought from ebay. So if I was to do anything about the hiss, I would need to return them to the seller and ask for a different pair etc. The hiss doesn't really bother me that much, plus I don't even hear it while listening to music, so I may just keep them. 

The Jabra's though, those were bought from amazon, and I have till the end of January to return/exchange them. So wondering if I should try my luck and do an exchange for a different pair.


----------



## clerkpalmer

raheelc said:


> Thanks for the info. I mentioned this earlier, but I bought these off ebay, and from another member's post (think it actually may have been one of your posts) M&D will not warranty/exchange earbuds that were bought from ebay. So if I was to do anything about the hiss, I would need to return them to the seller and ask for a different pair etc. The hiss doesn't really bother me that much, plus I don't even hear it while listening to music, so I may just keep them.
> 
> The Jabra's though, those were bought from amazon, and I have till the end of January to return/exchange them. So wondering if I should try my luck and do an exchange for a different pair.


They will not. I returned a bad set on eBay but if you are looking for a pair with zero hiss I don't think you will find it. I've had 4 pairs and all had it to varying degrees. It does not bother me either.


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## turbobb (Jan 17, 2019)

Amazon FR also has both colors of the Jaybird Run XT's posted with some add'l pics which the US site doesn't have:
https://www.amazon.fr/Run-XT-Black-Flash-EMEA/dp/B07M7KQG8X

@alchemical - last pic with accessories is a little hard to make out but it looks like micro-USB


----------



## BigZ12

turbobb said:


> Amazon FR also has both colors of the Jaybird Run XT's posted with some add'l pics which the US site doesn't have:
> https://www.amazon.fr/Run-XT-Black-Flash-EMEA/dp/B07M7KQG8X
> 
> @alchemical - last pic with accessories is a little hard to make out but it looks like micro-USB


I will buy these if they support AAC. Any info on that?


----------



## WesennTony

turbobb said:


> @alchemical - thx! Was hoping to hear something like that as I did read subsequent updates improved the connection issues. Might just take a chance on these RT's...
> 
> @DynamicEars - based on personal experience and under $50, my recommendations would be:
> - Eancrys BLACK (yeah that's the name...) w/BT5 and IPX7. These are amazing sounding with good range for $20.99, a HUGE caveat is that the stalks are really short and I can't quite get the left ear to fit perfectly. I'm looking for those extended double-flange tips to see if that solves the issue. But again, of what I can hear, the SQ is really really good for the price.
> ...


Looking at the pics at Amazon site for Aermoo B3, they appear to work for swimming as well. I'm wondering if you've tried them for swimming. If that's the case, I'm very tempted to get a pair.


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## turbobb (Jan 17, 2019)

@WessenTony - not for swimming but have used multiple times in the shower without any issues. While the range is excellent (for TWEs that is...) main problem would be the water cutting the range drastically. What might work is if you were willing to invest in a Class1 BT5 Tx (usually under $50) that is battery powered (have a seen a few on Amazon that support all the aptX codecs too) then you can either relay via BT from your source or just aux in (via source headphone jack) to the Tx. I'd imagine this setup __should__ work for swimming. While BT5 range is impressive thus far from the new devices I've tested, Class 1 range is truly impressive - pair these two and most people should be able to walk around the average house (provided it's not a giant mansion  and barring heavy RF interference) without any drop outs.


----------



## WesennTony

turbobb said:


> @WessenTony - not for swimming but have used multiple times in the shower without any issues. While the range is excellent (for TWEs that is...) main problem would be the water cutting the range drastically. What might work is if you were willing to invest in a Class1 BT5 Tx (usually under $50) that is battery powered (have a seen a few on Amazon that support all the aptX codecs too) then you can either relay via BT from your source or just aux in (via source headphone jack) to the Tx. I'd imagine this setup __should__ work for swimming. While BT5 range is impressive thus far from the new devices I've tested, Class 1 range is truly impressive - pair these two and most people should be able to walk around the average house (provided it's not a giant mansion  and barring heavy RF interference) without any drop outs.


OK, good. Thanks for the tips.


----------



## clerkpalmer

https://www.theverge.com/circuitbre...ter-dynamic-mw07-headphones-wireless-logo-995

LOL.


----------



## KarimLeVallois

clerkpalmer said:


> https://www.theverge.com/circuitbre...ter-dynamic-mw07-headphones-wireless-logo-995
> 
> LOL.



Just ordered a couple of pairs to match my outfits!

The Verge guy has a serious beef about these headphones, doesn't he!?


----------



## clerkpalmer

For $700, I'll be getting some Mr. Speakers Aeon Flows before LV badged MW07 that are regularly available on ebay for sub 200.  I must ashamedly admit that I succumbed to the LV pressure at Xmas because my wife desperately wanted a purse.


----------



## KarimLeVallois

clerkpalmer said:


> For $700, I'll be getting some Mr. Speakers Aeon Flows before LV badged MW07 that are regularly available on ebay for sub 200.  I must ashamedly admit that I succumbed to the LV pressure at Xmas because my wife desperately wanted a purse.



The pressure of a good lady lol


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## turbobb (Jan 17, 2019)

BigZ12 said:


> I will buy these if they support AAC. Any info on that?


Not sure yet, I've been scouring the net for more info but haven't turned up anything other than the product listings on Amazon. However, if their SBC implementation hasn't changed then I wouldn't be concerned as they really have one of the best SBC implementations I've heard, of course, latency would be a different matter...

With SBC I think mfr's toe the line between dedicating bandwidth for SQ (higher bit rates) or connection range. I think most tend to err on the latter as for the typical consumers, dropped connections would be much more noticeable vs. graininess that head-fi members would easily pick up. In general I've found that SBC implementations continue to vary a bit based on the ChiFi units I've tested recently but those with AAC and aptX are much more consistent (as in no discernible difference between different mfr's) thus for me personally it's always more desirable to find units with those codecs. Of course @SomeGuyDude does have a valid point that all the best codecs in the world wouldn't matter if the drivers & tuning sound like crud but for me, it's one variable to eliminate. Despite that, I've been taking chances with the lower end models with SBC only. However, for something pricier, I'd want to have better codecs unless I've had prior experience with their models (like with the Jaybird's) or someone vouching the SBC implementation is good.


----------



## clerkpalmer

KarimEshan said:


> The pressure of a good lady lol



The purse wasn't _that _much more than the headphones.


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## turbobb (Jan 17, 2019)

@BigZ12  - sigh... G.A.S. is bad, I'd imagine there'd be news forthcoming ahead of official release, else I'll let you know re:codecs when I get them. 

EDIT: Chatted w/support and while they confirmed no aptX support, they weren't sure about AAC. They only mentioned all their products use "the latest SBC...". Guess we'll have to wait. 

Slightly OT: it wasn't until I saw the support chat window closing that I saw the URL redirected to Logitech.com temporarily, forgot that they had purchased Jaybird. Wondering if Logitech will get into TWE's. I have one of their old Japan domestic BT earbuds w/aptX that was pretty decent if a little funky.


----------



## BrokeSkoolBoi

Just wanted to say, the bass response from momentum true wireless is better (most notably bigger) than my hd600. Gotta love technology


----------



## hifi80sman

raheelc said:


> Thanks for the info. I mentioned this earlier, but I bought these off ebay, and from another member's post (think it actually may have been one of your posts) M&D will not warranty/exchange earbuds that were bought from ebay. So if I was to do anything about the hiss, I would need to return them to the seller and ask for a different pair etc. The hiss doesn't really bother me that much, plus I don't even hear it while listening to music, so I may just keep them.
> 
> The Jabra's though, those were bought from amazon, and I have till the end of January to return/exchange them. So wondering if I should try my luck and do an exchange for a different pair.


Close all apps running on your phone.  THEN, I'd try to place them back in the case for 10 seconds (lid closed) and take them back out.  When they auto re-pair don't run any apps and see if you notice the hiss.


----------



## hifi80sman (Jan 17, 2019)

BrokeSkoolBoi said:


> Just wanted to say, the bass response from momentum true wireless is better (most notably bigger) than my hd600. Gotta love technology


I'm pretty sure the bass on most things are bigger than the HD 600.  


clerkpalmer said:


> https://www.theverge.com/circuitbre...ter-dynamic-mw07-headphones-wireless-logo-995
> 
> LOL.


LOL!  I knew it was going to cost more!

These people are seriosuly losing credibility, especially when they say things like this:
"In his review, my colleague Stefan Etienne noted that the MW07s were comfortable and sounded good, but they simply weren’t worth the $299 price tag since there are so many cheaper options out there already, _*like the $159 AirPods*_".

WOW, really?!  So the same typical buyer looking at the MW07, for sound mind you, is going to be like, "Hey, let me take a look at that ass-crack sound from the AirPods!  YES!".  What a tool.


----------



## clerkpalmer

hifi80sman said:


> I'm pretty sure the bass on most things are bigger than the HD 600.
> 
> LOL!  I knew it was going to cost more!
> 
> ...



Vlad should have reviewed the MW07 and I think we would have had a better outcome.  The airpods are still class leading when it comes to battery life and connection stability. But to suggest that MW07 was even trying to compete with Airpods shows a complete misunderstanding of the target buyer.  I don't even own airpods and I am a medium apple fanboy.


----------



## BrokeSkoolBoi

hifi80sman said:


> I'm pretty sure the bass on most things are bigger than the HD 600.
> /QUOTE]
> 
> My bewilderment is more due to the size and form factor delivering on an updated take on the sennheiser sound. It's like a perfect upgrade to the bass from the hd600 imo.


----------



## hifi80sman

Yeah, there is the "audiophile" market and the consumer market.  However, it seems recent trends blur the line between the 2.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

> In his review, my colleague Stefan Etienne noted that the MW07s were comfortable and sounded good, but they simply weren’t worth the $299 price tag since there are so many cheaper options out there already, like the $159 AirPods



This is why The Verge is pure ****ing trash.


----------



## WesennTony

And the LV fans may also trash The Verge for not knowing how much the fashion worth...


----------



## turbobb

So... I actually do enjoy some of the articles from Verge but I realize they can't be everything to everyone, their site (as with the majority of the generalized tech sites) is catered to the masses thus will not have the level of detail desired by most of us here.

What I DO take issue with is "Reviews" like this:
http://sethgame.com/2019/01/18/jaybird-run-xt-true-wireless-headphones-review/

That is nothing but a rehash of Jaybird's product description...   Also, if I'm not mistaken, the Amazon product link is an affiliate one (someone correct me if wrong). I wouldn't begrudge that if the article had actually provided anything meaningful (not to mention, if it really is an affiliate link, I don't see disclosures about it). 

Getting back on topic, I confirmed the Run XT's are still just BT4.2, thus the IPX7 is the only major meaningful upgrade I can see so far... Might be canceling the pre-order in this case since now that I've tasted BT5, i can't go back...


----------



## Boreaquis

Why isn't everything BT5 already? I can't imagine it's down to cost, when even the cheapest Chi-fi TWs seem to use it. The big names need to step it up.


----------



## Dellsson

Boreaquis said:


> Why isn't everything BT5 already? I can't imagine it's down to cost, when even the cheapest Chi-fi TWs seem to use it. The big names need to step it up.



For audio there's no difference between 4.2 and 5.0 as I understand. Only for Bluetooth low energy right?


----------



## Boreaquis

Dellsson said:


> For audio there's no difference between 4.2 and 5.0 as I understand. Only for Bluetooth low energy right?



Battery life and connection range/stability is pretty important for TWs, I think


----------



## Dellsson

Boreaquis said:


> Battery life and connection range/stability is pretty important for TWs, I think


You got me, that's true


----------



## turbobb (Jan 18, 2019)

@Boreaquis - it's likely due to the product pipelines that's been in place for a while for established mfr's and they chose whatever was available at the time but they likely don't take advantage of the latest out of warranty concerns and will look to see how the newer chipsets shake out industry wide before adoption. Case in point the CSR8675 was released a few years back but there are literally only a handful of BT earbuds and TWE's that utilize it (this is not counting Tx/Rx products). Of the products I found that utilized it in TWEs, they were either by Kickstarter campaign's (e.g. Here One and EOZ Air) or new entrants like Google themselves (though they utilized it for their Pixel Buds and not TWEs).

Most of the ChiFi units I see on Amazon are from fresh upstarts and they very likely go to an OEM producer (like this one: https://www.icellway.com/about-us) and simply have them produce their own brand of BT products. This particular OEM provider has decided to adopt BT5 (smart move): https://www.icellway.com/info/tws-bluetooth-headset-chipset-30958470.html (now you know which TWEs have BT5 based on the chipset of which the first two Airoha units also have AAC support and the CSR8675 has aptX HD [I haven't looked up the rest yet]). EDIT: caveat is that I don't believe this is a comprehensive list of all BT5 TWE chipsets.

Hopefully we'll start seeing broader adoption shortly (come on QCC5100!). I'm also really looking forward to ones that feature Adaptive aptX but realistically and based on precedence, I don't think we'll see any such products featuring it until late this year or early next year (I'd love to be proven wrong though! ).

@Dellsson  - For audio yes, but there are advantages like increased bandwidth for faster over-the-air FW updates, lower energy consumption (I'm not sure if both source and Rx need to be on BT5 to achieve this...), as well as increased range. I found this video very helpful in understanding what BT5 is and isn't about:


----------



## mikp

turbobb said:


> @Boreaquis - it's likely due to the product pipelines that's been in place for a while for established mfr's and they chose whatever was available at the time but they likely don't take advantage of the latest out of warranty concerns and will look to see how the newer chipsets shake out industry wide before adoption. Case in point the CSR8675 was released a few years back but there are literally only a handful of BT earbuds and TWE's that utilize it (this is not counting Tx/Rx products). Of the products I found that utilized it in TWEs, they were either by Kickstarter campaign's (e.g. Here One and EOZ Air) or new entrants like Google themselves (though they utilized it for their Pixel Buds and not TWEs).
> 
> Most of the ChiFi units I see on Amazon are from fresh upstarts and they very likely go to an OEM producer (like this one: https://www.icellway.com/about-us) and simply have them produce their own brand of BT products. This particular OEM provider has decided to adopt BT5 (smart move): https://www.icellway.com/info/tws-bluetooth-headset-chipset-30958470.html (now you know which TWEs have BT5 based on the chipset of which the first two Airoha units also have AAC support and the CSR8675 has aptX HD [I haven't looked up the rest yet]). EDIT: caveat is that I don't believe this is a comprehensive list of all BT5 TWE chipsets.
> 
> ...




just to comment, the eoz air uses RTL8763B. Last minute bait and switch from the campaigner. Heres hoping for qcc5100 soon, I read somewhere if you activate anc it reduces battery with 30%+hours or so.


----------



## turbobb

@mikp - thx for the correction, good to know! Perhaps some mfr can get creative and have either swappable batteries or some kind of piggy-back battery module (or heck, even a wired battery pack between the two) that one can boost the TWE's with for extended use. Though there are a few TWEs like Jaybird Run that can achieve an hour's use with five minutes of charge, fast charging is really hard on batteries and I'd worry about its longevity. There are also a few announcement about wireless charging using WiFi/BT but I wonder about the health implications...


----------



## SomeGuyDude

turbobb said:


> So... I actually do enjoy some of the articles from Verge but I realize they can't be everything to everyone, their site (as with the majority of the generalized tech sites) is catered to the masses thus will not have the level of detail desired by most of us here.



Anyone who considers the Airpods to be the standard-bearers of true wireless is either a) woefully ignorant, or b) shilling for Apple. Either way they have no business reviewing headphones. It's even worse than the people who clickbait by going "are these Sennheiser HD820s better than Beats??"


----------



## turbobb (Jan 18, 2019)

I didn't read that article so I'm not arguing for or against his points but rather making a point that he has a specific audience in mind that he's targeting with that review and it's pretty safe to say it's not for audiophiles. It's all about context... the good majority of consumers out there could fall into point a), not that it's necessarily woeful to anyone but us perhaps. Everyone hears things differently but more importantly if one has never tasted a perfectly cooked filet mignon or ribeye but chose to say that their well done skirt steak is the best steak they've ever had, who's to argue that point and say they're wrong?   This same crowd would highly unlikely even know what HD820s are but I bet they would know what Beats are... I get what you mean but we really represent the minority.

Also, say what you will about the Airpods sound-wise but they are excellent connection-wise and for phone use. I gifted a family member a set of Jabra AE 65t's based on various feedback here and elsewhere and while he loves 'em, he says they can't compare to the Airpods for phone use especially while riding his bike with wind and traffic noise and he also has no issues with drop outs which happens consistently with the 65t when he stands towards the end of one of the subway cars. However, for SQ and isolation, it's without a doubt in favor of the 65t.


----------



## MulberryMadness

SomeGuyDude said:


> Anyone who considers the Airpods to be the standard-bearers of true wireless is either a) woefully ignorant, or b) shilling for Apple. Either way they have no business reviewing headphones. It's even worse than the people who clickbait by going "are these Sennheiser HD820s better than Beats??"



‘Anyone’ I <3 ur broad stroke. Let me have a try at that biased logic.

 Any1 here who considers Airpods to not be the standard-bearers of the true wireless is a) ignorant of the fact of the history of TWE, as in before Airpods, how many of these TWE were popular, being sold to the masses? Answer: not many compared to when the Airpods went on sale, hella lot…runaway smash hit I’d say…regardless of how mediocre the SQ is, which in some circles could be considered to make it that ‘standard-bearer’ by *sales #s alone*, kinda like ya all hate Mac OSX, and love Winblows…because M$ OS has 85% of the market(funny how some anti-Apple types love to say how Apple’s OS is <5%, …sure if you go back a decade or 2, now it’s 12+%).


b) typical Apple h8trs J legions on this site & others…easy to find.


I would never buy Airpods, bc I can’t handle the form factor in my ears, just horrible to have hard plastic pressing against the soft skin in my ears.


http://fortune.com/2018/12/03/analy...the-roof-over-the-next-few-years-report-says/


“of all the Apple products, sales of the wireless earbuds are growing at the fastest rate. Last year, Apple sold 14 to 16 million pairs of AirPods, Kuo said, but that number will reach *50 to 55 million* next year and jump to 100 to 110 million by 2021, the news source reports.

Kuo also predicts that Apple will release a new version of the product in 2019, adding a wireless charging function that will boost sales.

“We believe that there is a greater likelihood of legacy iPhone users buying AirPods than upgrading to new iPhone models,” Kuo said

”

So how many Beats or Senn TWE will be sold this year, for comparison?


I’ll wait, please post up comparable sales # for any other TWE…I won’t hold my breath, since that won’t happen in my lifetime. Ergo, by other *opinions* that do not align with yours, Airpods could be considered ‘standard-bearer’ along with the fact you don’t seem to consider the W1 of any particular importance, it must be bc of your ignorance, as well I expect with the updated model using ‘W2’ version of the chip.


You want to ask Colin if Senn HD820 are better than Beats? Maybe ur just not culturally up-to-date/urban hip /snark







I am hopeful of future R&D Apple applies to their Airpods, health sensors, possibly (dreaming, drinking the RDF Koolaid) working on synergy with the next A13 SoC in the 2019 iP, that AI-ML neural processors, stuff.

Just think if Apple’s multi-bil cash reserves were spent on R&D they are hinting at being the future, perhaps they hire a team of audio engineers to implement fully automated in-ear calibration based on measuring of how the sound is bouncing around in your ear canal…fully personalized, total control over the sound(-signature). Also AI tailored fully configurable ANC, besting all competitors

Will be great is if the Qualcomm Apple litigation makes Apple come out with vastly superior SOC vs Qualcomm’s stuck with having to design for the multitude of clients they have.

Wouldn’t it be a killer app, if you could just tap on your ip11 and get exact duplication of the frequency graphs of any headphone on the market…game changer, disruptive tech…hah. … or course knowing Apple they will keep the absurdly awful orig Airpods form factor, so I’ll never buy them.

Just have to wait for the IP copycats/trademark infringers in China to make their ‘clones’ that will be better & cheaper, and more comfortable, lol. Apple seriously needs to license the W1 & later W2 chips for all others to use…put a nice knife in Qualcomm’s back!


----------



## Luchyres (Jan 18, 2019)

MulberryMadness said:


> ‘Anyone’ I <3 ur broad stroke. Let me have a try at that biased logic.
> 
> Any1 here who considers Airpods to not be the standard-bearers of the true wireless is a) ignorant of the fact of the history of TWE, as in before Airpods, how many of these TWE were popular, being sold to the masses? Answer: not many compared to when the Airpods went on sale, hella lot…runaway smash hit I’d say…regardless of how mediocre the SQ is, which in some circles could be considered to make it that ‘standard-bearer’ by *sales #s alone*, kinda like ya all hate Mac OSX, and love Winblows…because M$ OS has 85% of the market(funny how some anti-Apple types love to say how Apple’s OS is <5%, …sure if you go back a decade or 2, now it’s 12+%).
> 
> ...



Valid points, but a rapid escalation and something I think we should all just let defuse. Perhaps you and I have different impressions from reading this whole thread, but I tend to take @SomeGuyDude 's comments as having a tint of sarcasm/vehemence for the sake of being a bit funny, either intentionally or unintentionally. (But I'm also from where he lives, so it may be a sense of humor thing).

In any case, 'anyone' was a broad stroke regardless of whether meant literally (and in any case, would be his opinion).

Your points regarding airpods are valid, and challenges for sales #'s are an echo of a type of argument I see on message boards often - and nobody really wins, but we see what you're getting at. We happen to be a population that likely selects for people who are not satisfied with airpods or that dislike for any number of reasons - but they're not a bad (and definitely not an unsuccessful) product.

So, what are your favorite TWEs @MulberryMadness ?


----------



## webvan (Jan 18, 2019)

MTW reviewed on RTings : https://www.rtings.com/headphones/reviews/sennheiser/momentum-true-wireless - they're not too impressed but do bang on about the great range, I don't see that as a huge plus personally...

They also review the XFYRO xS2 which I can't say I'd paid much attention to : https://www.rtings.com/headphones/reviews/xfyro/xs2 - they liked them even less.

Would be interesting to see the results of the MW07 in their lab.


----------



## clerkpalmer

webvan said:


> MTW reviewed on RTings : https://www.rtings.com/headphones/reviews/sennheiser/momentum-true-wireless - they're not too impressed but to bang on about the great range, I don't see that as a huge plus personally...
> 
> They also review the XFYRO xS2 which I can't say I'd paid much attention to : https://www.rtings.com/headphones/reviews/xfyro/xs2 - they liked them even less.
> 
> Would be interesting to see the results of the MW07 in their lab.


Interesting that rtings has the Bose as the best sounding true wireless with a whopping 7.7 for critical listening. I do think the Bose sound excellent so long as there is no outside noise. Too bad they crap out regularly from sweat.


----------



## chinmie

turbobb said:


> he also has no issues with drop outs which happens consistently with the 65t when he stands towards the end of one of the subway cars.



speaking of this, i also have experienced this with the 65t. it seems it is susceptible to certain interference. i always use the 65t for motorcycle riding, and i noticed that it always crackles a bit on the left ears when I'm passing the same spot/area on the way home.

and worst was yesterday when i went to a local pet shop in my area, the left earpiece just went crazy and crackles all the time. i also noticed that my phone has a bad signal in that store..i don't know if it has relation or not, but it happens to be.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

MulberryMadness said:


> words



I mean I'm glad you worship at the altar of Apple but some of us aren't so blind and ignorant but hey you do you, buckaroo.


----------



## Tommy C

chinmie said:


> speaking of this, i also have experienced this with the 65t. it seems it is susceptible to certain interference. i always use the 65t for motorcycle riding, and i noticed that it always crackles a bit on the left ears when I'm passing the same spot/area on the way home.
> 
> and worst was yesterday when i went to a local pet shop in my area, the left earpiece just went crazy and crackles all the time. i also noticed that my phone has a bad signal in that store..i don't know if it has relation or not, but it happens to be.



I have the Jabra Elite Sport it’s the older model with Bluetooth 4.2 and I have none of these issue despite living in a super busy downtown.  Battery life is about 5.5-6 hrs before they need to be charged in the case.  
I wouldn’t touch the iPods though. 
The Jabra sounds is excellent once you find the right fit. 
My colleague has the 65t and had similar issues with his Android phone, none when connected to an iPhone.  My bet is that it’s most likely your phone.


----------



## chinmie

Tommy C said:


> I have the Jabra Elite Sport it’s the older model with Bluetooth 4.2 and I have none of these issue despite living in a super busy downtown.  Battery life is about 5.5-6 hrs before they need to be charged in the case.
> I wouldn’t touch the iPods though.
> The Jabra sounds is excellent once you find the right fit.
> My colleague has the 65t and had similar issues with his Android phone, none when connected to an iPhone.  My bet is that it’s most likely your phone.



my 65t is also quite stable and pleasant to use, and lucky for me i don't have that interference at home. 

i don't think it's my phone. because that crackles happen even when no music is playing. i even disconnected the bluetooth connection and the crackles continued.

it's more of because the NFMI signal from right to left unit that's being jammed by something. bluetooth 4 for NFMI devices doesn't impair much even compared to bt 5 ones that do not use NFMI


----------



## clerkpalmer

chinmie said:


> my 65t is also quite stable and pleasant to use, and lucky for me i don't have that interference at home.
> 
> i don't think it's my phone. because that crackles happen even when no music is playing. i even disconnected the bluetooth connection and the crackles continued.
> 
> it's more of because the NFMI signal from right to left unit that's being jammed by something. bluetooth 4 for NFMI devices doesn't impair much even compared to bt 5 ones that do not use NFMI


On the topic of 65t, mine stopped turning off in the case. They stay connected. Any fixes?


----------



## chinmie

clerkpalmer said:


> On the topic of 65t, mine stopped turning off in the case. They stay connected. Any fixes?



when you put it in the case, does it blink red? try it with the lid open: put it in, if the red light blinks and the bt connection ended, then you close the case and the unit reestablish bt connection, my guess it moved and disengaged from the prong in the case


----------



## clerkpalmer

chinmie said:


> when you put it in the case, does it blink red? try it with the lid open: put it in, if the red light blinks and the bt connection ended, then you close the case and the unit reestablish bt connection, my guess it moved and disengaged from the prong in the case


Nope. Nothing happens when I put them in. No lights. It is as if it didn't happen.


----------



## chinmie

clerkpalmer said:


> Nope. Nothing happens when I put them in. No lights. It is as if it didn't happen.



then it never turned itself off..might you try turning it off manually, then putting it in the case? if it still not resolved, i strongly suggest to return and replace it with new unit


----------



## howdy

Listening to some Queensryche on the trusty Senns and these rock reguradless of what Rting says, they don't know what good sound is.


----------



## clerkpalmer

chinmie said:


> then it never turned itself off..might you try turning it off manually, then putting it in the case? if it still not resolved, i strongly suggest to return and replace it with new unit


Yep. Tried calling Jabra today. Hung up after 25 minutes on hold. Arrrgghhh.


----------



## donedj

SomeGuyDude said:


> Anyone who considers the Airpods to be the standard-bearers of true wireless is either a) woefully ignorant, or b) shilling for Apple. Either way they have no business reviewing headphones. It's even worse than the people who clickbait by going "are these Sennheiser HD820s better than Beats??"



In terms of connectivity and ease of use AirPods right now are the standard imo. They are nowhere near audiophile sound but they do certain things very well. Consistency is spectacular. Take out of case put in ear already connected. Both earbuds lose same amount of battery. Put back in case done. Recharge fully for 4 times. Consistent 5 hour battery.

I just returned my sennheiser mtw even though sound quality was best in true wireless. Why return? How about the unit losing charge while in case and case is fully charged. Huh? I left AirPods in case for over a week while testing mtw during gym sessions daily, and AirPods had the same battery level as left.


----------



## kiwikozo (Jan 19, 2019)

donedj said:


> In terms of connectivity and ease of use AirPods right now are the standard imo. They are nowhere near audiophile sound but they do certain things very well. Consistency is spectacular. Take out of case put in ear already connected. Both earbuds lose same amount of battery. Put back in case done. Recharge fully for 4 times. Consistent 5 hour battery.
> 
> I just returned my sennheiser mtw even though sound quality was best in true wireless. Why return? How about the unit losing charge while in case and case is fully charged. Huh? I left AirPods in case for over a week while testing mtw during gym sessions daily, and AirPods had the same battery level as left.



I've had no connectivity issues with the Earin M2, the battery life is close to 4 hours, the case holds 3 additional charges, charging the earbuds themselves is incredibly quick, and the earbuds can be used independently / auto switch "slave" buds to drain at a similar rate.

Defending airpods is worse than defending beats / skullcandy. Strong connectivity does not make up for crappy sounding earbuds.

With airpods you get that wonderful tampon look and the pleasure of joining the apple "cult" who think apple's products are superior because of their own flawed vision of image, completely disrupting their sense of quality + value.


----------



## Tommy C

kiwikozo said:


> I've had no connectivity issues with the Earin M2, the battery life is close to 4 hours, the case holds 3 additional charges, charging the earbuds themselves is incredibly quick, and the earbuds can be used independently / auto switch "slave" buds to drain at a similar rate.
> 
> Defending airpods is worse than defending beats / skullcandy. Strong connectivity does not make up for crappy sounding earbuds.
> 
> With airpods you get that wonderful tampon look and the pleasure of joining the apple "cult" who think apple's products are superior because of their own flawed vision of image, completely disrupting their sense of quality + value.



Cult or not the sound of the iPhone X is much better compared to the Samsung S9 that a coworker has.
Some of their products are very good and most importantly for most people are super dependable.


----------



## howdy (Jan 19, 2019)

donedj said:


> In terms of connectivity and ease of use AirPods right now are the standard imo. They are nowhere near audiophile sound but they do certain things very well. Consistency is spectacular. Take out of case put in ear already connected. Both earbuds lose same amount of battery. Put back in case done. Recharge fully for 4 times. Consistent 5 hour battery.
> 
> I just returned my sennheiser mtw even though sound quality was best in true wireless. Why return? How about the unit losing charge while in case and case is fully charged. Huh? I left AirPods in case for over a week while testing mtw during gym sessions daily, and AirPods had the same battery level as left.


This generally how my battery is, they are relatively close every time I check them. That sucks you and a few others are having issues.
As for connection, I take mine out of the case and they are immediately connected, I tap the right side and tell it to play Tidal and it does. Everything works great!
I wonder if they have different iterations as it seems some work and some not so much.


----------



## KarimLeVallois

After using the MW07s for a few days I have to say that the sound profile on these is absolutely perfect for me. The bass hits hard, the separation and soundstage are on another level and I’m walking around with a massive grin on my face. I love these things!


----------



## firewatersun (Jan 19, 2019)

KarimEshan said:


> After using the MW07s for a few days I have to say that the sound profile on these is absolutely perfect for me. The bass hits hard, the separation and soundstage are on another level and I’m walking around with a massive grin on my face. I love these things!



They really are almost perfect except for lack of transparency mode and their short battery life. I don't really even care about transparency tbh.

 I'd definitely pay for a battery upgrade if it was possible.


----------



## KarimLeVallois

firewatersun said:


> They really are almost perfect except for lack of transparency mode and their short battery life. I'd fully pay for a battery upgrade if it was possible.



Transparency would be nice, but not essential on my commute. Battery life is fine for me too as my commute is only about an hour anyway and I’m guessing it’s the price you pay for a bigger driver.


----------



## donedj

A few screenshots of my returned mtw battery levels.

First photo was the moment I said "you are being returned" this was after a full charge inside the box. Tested full charge about 20-30 mins ago that day.

Second is how I started listening to music after full charge. And last pic is after sometime listening to music same session same day. When starting left has more charge, after listening to music for a while right has more charge ahahahaha. I am totally appalled by Sennheiser quality for the mtw.


----------



## alchemical

donedj said:


> A few screenshots of my returned mtw battery levels.
> 
> First photo was the moment I said "you are being returned" this was after a full charge inside the box. Tested full charge about 20-30 mins ago that day.
> 
> Second is how I started listening to music after full charge. And last pic is after sometime listening to music same session same day. When starting left has more charge, after listening to music for a while right has more charge ahahahaha. I am totally appalled by Sennheiser quality for the mtw.


Yep, shocking really. Both of my sets were just as bad, and went back. Still taken aback that they were released with such glaring faults.


----------



## turbobb

Interesting discovery I made about the range as I'm wrapping up my review of the Aermoo B3's: while connected to my iPhone 7+ (BT4.2), I can get ~70ft away (not direct line-of-sight) before transmission starts getting interrupted. Using same test with my V30 (BT5), it's about 10-15 ft less. So, a source device's BT transmission capability trumps the BT version involved. I guess it really shouldn't be all that surprising but I was expecting the BT5 to BT5 between Tx/Rx would've been better but that's simply not the case. Of course, this is sample size of one and without advanced BT debugging equipment, one might not be able to tell what else is going on here but just sharing my findings FWIW.


----------



## kiwikozo

I really want to try the MW07 now if they really are as great as you all say. 

To order a set now or wait for the next model from M&D or Sennheiser....


----------



## clerkpalmer

kiwikozo said:


> I really want to try the MW07 now if they really are as great as you all say.
> 
> To order a set now or wait for the next model from M&D or Sennheiser....


I would not wait. Neither is likely to occur anytime soon. MW07 is less than 6 months old. Senns only about 6 weeks. I would not expect new models for either in 2019.


----------



## clerkpalmer

alchemical said:


> Yep, shocking really. Both of my sets were just as bad, and went back. Still taken aback that they were released with such glaring faults.


I think it was probably a mistake to offer separate battery levels down to the percentage.  Way too many ways for things to get unbalanced. Software and hardware. Probably should have just stuck with a single battery meter like MW07. Not saying it's excusable but it was an ambitious goal and it is probably causing more problems than it's worth.


----------



## KarimLeVallois (Jan 19, 2019)

kiwikozo said:


> I really want to try the MW07 now if they really are as great as you all say.
> 
> To order a set now or wait for the next model from M&D or Sennheiser....



Didn’t the MW07 only come out in September? Just buy them and enjoy them, you could be waiting 6 months, or even a year, nobody knows.


----------



## hifi80sman

donedj said:


> I just returned my sennheiser mtw even though sound quality was best in true wireless. Why return? How about the unit losing charge while in case and case is fully charged. Huh? I left AirPods in case for over a week while testing mtw during gym sessions daily, and AirPods had the same battery level as left.


If they come out with a firmware update that actually fixes the case/battery drain issue, I would certainly look at re-purchasing.  The only hesitation is the *really* plastic build.  In contrast, the build and case on the E8 is quite satisfying, which I can get for around $200.  I’m also trending away from micro USB, so should the MTW update come out around the time of the E8 v2, I may go with the E8, even though I do like the sound of the MTW a bit more.

Shoot, I have some $30 Chi-Fi units that hold a charge for over a week of non-use, no problem.  There is no reason $300 brand name, high-end, audio _*equipment *_should have any of these issues.


----------



## hifi80sman

kiwikozo said:


> I really want to try the MW07 now if they really are as great as you all say.
> 
> To order a set now or wait for the next model from M&D or Sennheiser....


Do it.  You’ll forget they are TWEs.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

Funny how the only TWE that reports battery life of both earpieces has everyone complaining about battery imbalance. Can't imagine the two are related.


----------



## alchemical

As frustrating as the imbalance was, it was the charging case drain when idle that was the dealbreaker. Often finding the thing dead when it should have been 100%, along with the buds, was ridiculous.


----------



## kiwikozo

I am worried they will make me not want to use my Earin M2. The perfect size, battery life, sound signature, comfort, and the app has really won me over.

However, I think I can make do with 2.5h of battery life if they charge quickly. Do the MW07 work well in a gym - any connection issues? Are they bright compared to the MTW?


----------



## howdy

Yep, I'm giving in and will buy the MW07 again but I want the Gray Terrazzo which is out of stock tell February.


----------



## hifi80sman

kiwikozo said:


> I am worried they will make me not want to use my Earin M2. The perfect size, battery life, sound signature, comfort, and the app has really won me over.
> 
> However, I think I can make do with 2.5h of battery life if they charge quickly. Do the MW07 work well in a gym - any connection issues? Are they bright compared to the MTW?


I haven't had any connection issues in the gym.

I get around 3 hours with around 40-50% volume on an iPhone Xs max.


----------



## clerkpalmer

kiwikozo said:


> I am worried they will make me not want to use my Earin M2. The perfect size, battery life, sound signature, comfort, and the app has really won me over.
> 
> However, I think I can make do with 2.5h of battery life if they charge quickly. Do the MW07 work well in a gym - any connection issues? Are they bright compared to the MTW?



They will make you forget about your E2s. No issues in gym. Very stable fit. Rock solid connection. I'd probably take them off and use the when sweating alot.


----------



## hifi80sman

howdy said:


> Yep, I'm giving in and will buy the MW07 again but I want the Gray Terrazzo which is out of stock tell February.


Try Nordstrom.com

They had the Grey Terrazzo a few days ago at a store near me.  They also seemed to have some in stock for shipping if there was nothing close for same day pickup.


----------



## korefuji

I'm not happy with the earins, they just fit weird. I think I'll sell them and get the MW07 again, I wish they went on sale though, would be nice but UK is screwed for pricing. I'll wait till the Earins are shifted, then I'll order teh MW07. Just don't like the earin, the soundstage is whacky.for me, compared to the mw07's.


----------



## chinmie

about battery drain, the WF1000X and the M2 has them too. if I don't use them for a few days  the WF1000X would be dead when I take it out, and the M2  case sometimes has a lower battery level, but i haven't got it totally dead yet. the 65t don't seem to have that problem. the sabbat and mifo that arrived on 30th December? well, I'm using them everyday (sometimes wearing them to sleep and found them still on standby in the morning) and i haven't recharge the case at all


----------



## howdy

hifi80sman said:


> Try Nordstrom.com
> 
> They had the Grey Terrazzo a few days ago at a store near me.  They also seemed to have some in stock for shipping if there was nothing close for same day pickup.


Thanks! I'll check that. I'm close to Nordstrom at Mall of America. I was just there 2 weeks ago I should have them out then. 
When I had mine they where black which was fine but they grey are pretty bad ass looking.


----------



## clerkpalmer

howdy said:


> Thanks! I'll check that. I'm close to Nordstrom at Mall of America. I was just there 2 weeks ago I should have them out then.
> When I had mine they where black which was fine but they grey are pretty bad ass looking.


Neiman Marcus too i believe.


----------



## Rickyearl

alchemical said:


> As frustrating as the imbalance was, it was the charging case drain when idle that was the dealbreaker. Often finding the thing dead when it should have been 100%, along with the buds, was ridiculous.


Yeah, the “charge imbalance” issue to me is really just TMI.  The biggest issue is the case draining any time it’s moved with the MTW in it.

Oh, I did a factory reset on mine (plug in case without MTW, put MTW in case and touch surfaces on both MTWs for more than 30 seconds) and things seem much improved.  Thanks @dweaver.  Haven’t had phantom drains on the MTWs since. But the case is still draining any time I carry it around with the MTWs inside it.

But man they sound so good.  Got a bid in on MW07s and if it comes through I will try them again but the MTW are just so much better than anything I have tried.

Need to get off my a** and sell the E8s.  They are easily the best built TW I have tried in terms of “fit and finish” type stuff.


----------



## WesennTony

kiwikozo said:


> I am worried they will make me not want to use my Earin M2. The perfect size, battery life, sound signature, comfort, and the app has really won me over.
> 
> However, I think I can make do with 2.5h of battery life if they charge quickly. Do the MW07 work well in a gym - any connection issues? Are they bright compared to the MTW?


I have no connection issues with MW07 in gym, while Earin M2 have more drop outs, partly because the AAC codec in my phone (LG V30) I guess, despite that MW07 use AAC as well. I still prefer M2 over MW07 for gym use, though. They're comparatively small and lightweight, feeling non-existent during workout, and I don't care too much about the sound quality in that circumstance. Besides, while MW07 work well for strength training and weight lifting, for running I can feel the thumping and also the rattling sound in the left earbud. I don't notice these in M2.


----------



## WesennTony

howdy said:


> Yep, I'm giving in and will buy the MW07 again but I want the Gray Terrazzo which is out of stock tell February.


Ha, same here. I returned my black MW07 when I got the earin M2, waiting for the chance to get the Gray Terrazzo.


----------



## kiwikozo

Why did you get rid of your MW07 in the first place?

My worry is the fit will be uncomfortable, my ears are quite small and I found the MTW incredibly uncomfortable.


----------



## WesennTony (Jan 19, 2019)

Not about MW07 themselves, really. They're nearly perfect, but Earin M2 are just better for gym use to me, which is actually my original purpose for TWE. I don't have fit issues with MW07, and I don't have large ears either. That being said, earin M2 is still more comfortable. I need to take MW07 off after half an hour or so to get my ears some fresh air, which I don't have to do with M2.
The other reason is that I just got another wired IEM (Westone W60) which is my instant favorite so far. So I figured out I don't have much time to spend on MW07 for the moment. So I returned them, thinking that if I miss them, I can get one with a better color. Guess what, like someone else here, I do.


----------



## albau

kiwikozo said:


> Do the MW07 work well in a gym - any connection issues?


Actually considering that they are just BT 4.2 for me MW07 have less dropouts than 65t which are BT5. I have no problems with them staying put at a gym no matter what I do there, though they are not good for a treadmill because of thumping. You’ll need to find proper for your ears combination of fins and tips. For me it turned out to be SpinFit CP100Z-L tips with large fins. None of the stock tips worked well in my case. MW07 are light, don’t stick much out, stay put in ears, easy to operate and have a really invigorating sound signature.


----------



## Closingracer

albau said:


> Actually considering that they are just BT 4.2 for me MW07 have less dropouts than 65t which are BT5. I have no problems with them staying put at a gym no matter what I do there, though they are not good for a treadmill because of thumping. You’ll need to find proper for your ears combination of fins and tips. For me it turned out to be SpinFit CP100Z-L tips with large fins. None of the stock tips worked well in my case. MW07 are light, don’t stick much out, stay put in ears, easy to operate and have a really invigorating sound signature.




This. Don’t have any issues but returned them because of poor battery life at the price point. If I can get them new at bestbuy or etc around $200-$250 I’ll get them again because they sound great. Just going to get AirPods for now which is purely for convenience of no wires which is what I am looking for primarily


----------



## Tommy C

Closingracer said:


> This. Don’t have any issues but returned them because of poor battery life at the price point. If I can get them new at bestbuy or etc around $200-$250 I’ll get them again because they sound great. Just going to get AirPods for now which is purely for convenience of no wires which is what I am looking for primarily



Why don’t you get the Jabra Elite Sport instead of the ugly Airpods? 
Great reliability and a much better sound with excellent battery life and also cheaper. Last month they were on sale from Jabra for $100 which is ridiculous for what they are with the heart rate monitor and sports app.


----------



## raheelc

hifi80sman said:


> Close all apps running on your phone.  THEN, I'd try to place them back in the case for 10 seconds (lid closed) and take them back out.  When they auto re-pair don't run any apps and see if you notice the hiss.



Yep, still noticing the hiss. It's not too bad, for the price I paid for the MW07 I guess I can live with it. 

Has anyone had an issue with the Jabra active 65t's, where the voice that says "connected" and "disconnected" is louder in the left ear bud than the right? When listening to music the sound is equally balanced in both buds, it only happens when the earbuds say "connected" etc.


----------



## Edward Ng

BigZ12 said:


> *TrueGrip™ Pro - The first Comply disappointment.*
> I've bought a lot of Comply tips for many different in-ear headsets. 100% happy with all of them. Sound quality, bass, seal and comfort (especially noise from cables, chewing etc)
> The TrueGrip™ Pro I got today, is sadly not fitting my ears. Too small, thus no seal and bass. Edit: There's only one size. Std/med.
> I don't know what to use with my Sennheiser Momentum True Wireless now. I really hate silicon tips....
> Any other suggestions?



Here's what I did, as I had exactly the same experience you did with the Comply TrueGrip tips for my Senn MTWs:
1) Decore a pair of the Comply TrueGrip tips (in my case the TrueGrip Pro tips, but same difference once decored)
2) With the best-fitting pair of stock silicone mushroom tips installed on the IEMs, invert the mushroom cap part
3) Slide the decored Comply foam onto the shaft of the stock mushroom tip, all the way up to the body
4) Re-vert the mushroom cap back, over the foam

Voila--you now have the isolation you expect from Comply, with a proper fit. Please let me know how this works out for you--I found the Medium size stock mushroom tips were the right fit for me, and this worked perfectly for me with the decored TrueGrip Pro tips! I do not know how well it will work with the other sizes included with the MTWs (XS/S/L).

-Ed


----------



## BigZ12

Edward Ng said:


> Here's what I did, as I had exactly the same experience you did with the Comply TrueGrip tips for my Senn MTWs:
> 1) Decore a pair of the Comply TrueGrip tips (in my case the TrueGrip Pro tips, but same difference once decored)
> 2) With the best-fitting pair of stock silicone mushroom tips installed on the IEMs, invert the mushroom cap part
> 3) Slide the decored Comply foam onto the shaft of the stock mushroom tip, all the way up to the body
> ...


Thanks for the tip! 
Sounds like it could work very well.
Since my post, I've mounted a medium sized Symbio tip on the MTWs. That works fantastic. 
With silicon over foam material (as the Symbio is built), I guess it works almost identical to what you built. 
Maybe I will try it anyway, just for fun. If I do, I'll post my experience.


----------



## Edward Ng

BigZ12 said:


> Thanks for the tip!
> Sounds like it could work very well.
> Since my post, I've mounted a medium sized Symbio tip on the MTWs. That works fantastic.
> With silicon over foam material (as the Symbio is built), I guess it works almost identical to what you built.
> Maybe I will try it anyway, just for fun. If I do, I'll post my experience.



You’re welcome! I just decided to core out a pair of the Comply tips I have for the 1More Triple Driver IEMs and used them to fill out the Large silicone tips that came with the Sennheisers; will compare the two for fit, comfort, isolation and sound (of course in this situation, YMMV).

-Ed


----------



## -rowan-

Hi, I've been lurking on this thread a bit. I've owned (and sold) a bunch of BT headphones in the past because of finicky connectivity and how they never sounded quite right but the technology is moving so fast it's worth dipping one's toes back in every now and again. 

Anyway I picked up the QCY QS1 (aka T1, I think) after reading a few good things about it here - and well, I have to say I'm pleasantly surprised at what I got for $20. 

For one, they're extremely easy to pair - as long as you're using them with only one device. 

They pair automatically every time with my iPhone but if say I felt like using them with an Android tablet, I'd have to reboot the buds and start from scratch. It's a bit of a pain, when I've had older BT headphones that pair with multiple devices seamlessly. 

Having said that, I love how these sound. Decent amount of sub bass with a good seal, fast and nicely judged decay so it doesn't bleed all over the mids. Overall a quite balanced and natural tuning - this is not one of those overly bright or dark IEMs that chifi is infamous for. A decently wide soundstage and good imaging. Sure, they could do with a bit more extension both ends but you'd be paying lots more for that.


----------



## chrisbriton

Sorry if this has already been mentioned already. Is using AAC and Apple Music the best possible SQ combination for the MW07’s?


----------



## clerkpalmer

chrisbriton said:


> Sorry if this has already been mentioned already. Is using AAC and Apple Music the best possible SQ combination for the MW07’s?


I use tidal and Apple music over my xs max. I cannot tell a difference. If you are on Android, I would use aptx over AAC.


----------



## chrisbriton (Jan 20, 2019)

clerkpalmer said:


> I use tidal and Apple music over my xs max. I cannot tell a difference. If you are on Android, I would use aptx over AAC.


Thanks for the comment. I’ve got an LG v30 and a  tidal hifi subscription but whatever streaming service I use from the v30 it’s annoying quiet compared to an iPhone XS Max, have you had any similar problems?
So tidal hifi with aptx would not sound any better or worse than AAC? I reaalise these are probably very obvious questions, bit of a noob here


----------



## chinmie

Aptx and AAC are not much different on android to my ears. the noticable jump is from SBC to Aptx/AAC, and also from Aptx/AAC to LDAC


----------



## clerkpalmer

chrisbriton said:


> Thanks for the comment. I’ve got an LG v30 and a  tidal hifi subscription but whatever streaming service I use from the v30 it’s annoying quiet compared to an iPhone XS Max, have you had any similar problems?
> So tidal hifi with aptx would not sound any better or worse than AAC? I reaalise these are probably very obvious questions, bit of a noob here



Tidal is a bit quieter than apple music on my iPhone. I believe I have read that the AAC implementation over Android is different than iOS and perhaps a bit worse. Someone can correct me if I'm wrong. I think on an Android aptx is better but you may not even notice a difference. Probably pretty close.


----------



## kiwikozo

BigZ12 said:


> Thanks for the tip!
> Sounds like it could work very well.
> Since my post, I've mounted a medium sized Symbio tip on the MTWs. That works fantastic.
> With silicon over foam material (as the Symbio is built), I guess it works almost identical to what you built.
> Maybe I will try it anyway, just for fun. If I do, I'll post my experience.



Can you post a picture, please?


----------



## turbobb

Doing a little more digging around for intersting TWEs and came across these:
https://smile.amazon.com/NUARL-Wireless-Earphones-NT01AX-BG-Products】/dp/B07KVRJBVG

which look nearly identical to the Romeo 07R which has the QCC3001 but no aptX:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07KZWNDTJ

The interesting thing is that in the specs for the Nuarl, it's the first time I've seen any manufacturer list different battery life between SBC/AAC (10hrs) vs. aptX (7hrs). I'm guessing it might be using the QCC3002 in which case, it should also have aptX LL which is so rare for TWEs (only one I'm aware of is the NuForce BeFree8). Anyone have any experience with the Nuarl NT01AX?


----------



## RobinFood

turbobb said:


> Doing a little more digging around for intersting TWEs and came across these:
> https://smile.amazon.com/NUARL-Wireless-Earphones-NT01AX-BG-Products】/dp/B07KVRJBVG
> 
> which look nearly identical to the Romeo 07R which has the QCC3001 but no aptX:
> ...



I live in Japan and on amazon jp it says it is using the new QCC3026 chip. If it had an ambient mode I would have ordered it, its the highest rated TWE and all the reviews talk about its excellent balanced sound. Graphene coated drivers.

https://www.amazon.co.jp/gp/aw/d/B07KVRJBVG/ref=ox_sc_saved_image_1?smid=A2VJBAZIY75XKO&psc=1


----------



## turbobb

Ah, too bad they didn't have local distribution here else I'd consider it (I'd be concerned with after-service should it be required).


----------



## bedlamite

The NT01AX just came up on my radar as well. Looks the business, BT5, graphene drivers, 10 hour battery life (!) + 35h with the case. No app, but as long as the audio tuning is decent I don't need one. The lack of a transparency mode is unfortunate, but it's not a dealbreaker.


----------



## BigZ12 (Jan 21, 2019)

kiwikozo said:


> Can you post a picture, please?


I haven't made the custom one yet, but this is how the MTW look with a medium sized Symbio tip.
Very good seal for me, good tight bass and I actually think it sounds better in mids/highs than with the original silicon tips too.
Edit: And it fits very nice in the case.


----------



## howdy

BigZ12 said:


> I haven't made the custom one yet, but this is how the MTW look with a medium sized Symbio tip.
> Very good seal for me, good tight bass and I actually think it sounds better in mids/highs than with the original silicon tips too.
> Edit: And it fits very nice in the case.


What Model# are the Symbio tips are you using and did you buy them from their site?
TIA.


----------



## RobinFood (Jan 21, 2019)

I decided to take a dive and got the Glidic TW-7000 on sale...I noticed though that when it connects as AAC, no music plays, but the static kind of changes in ambient mode like something is coming in. No problem in SBC, but I definitely hear a weird artifact in the cymbals depending on the volume...love the sound overall except for that, just wish I could activate better sound.


----------



## Edward Ng

kiwikozo said:


> Can you post a picture, please?



Here’s what you get when you core out a Comply tip and use it to fill out a stock tip.


----------



## BigZ12

howdy said:


> What Model# are the Symbio tips are you using and did you buy them from their site?
> TIA.


http://symbioeartips.com/termek/symbio-n/
I chose the medium size for the Senns.


----------



## Edward Ng

BigZ12 said:


> http://symbioeartips.com/termek/symbio-n/
> I chose the medium size for the Senns.



So...their web site is pretty confusing. Which letter indicates what? Like is the first M the size? The depth? The core size? And then the second letter? The last letter? What’s an MMM vs MML vs MLL?

-Ed


----------



## BigZ12

Edward Ng said:


> So...their web site is pretty confusing. Which letter indicates what? Like is the first M the size? The depth? The core size? And then the second letter? The last letter? What’s an MMM vs MML vs MLL?
> 
> -Ed


MMM (3 pairs of medium)
MML (2 pairs of medium, 1 pair of large)
And so on... 
Normal and wide bore is core size. Inner diameter. (The Senns need the normal, or the tip will be too loose.)


----------



## hifi80sman

Anyone try the fFLAT5 Aria Two TWE?
https://www.amazon.com/fFLAT5-Aria-Two-Wireless-Bluetooth/dp/B01MZ8ZGKS

Look kinda unique and specs look good.


----------



## nc8000

Have now used the Earin M2 for some weeks and really like it. The sound is perfectly acceptable out and about, call quality is reasonable and in stereo though not stellar (not very important to me), size and fit is brilliant as is build quality and isolation is good, it has a much better ambient mode than the E8, simple touch controls that do exactly the things I need (much prefer touch to buttons), connection is rock stable, not a single drop out. Battery life at about 3 hours 10-20 minutes is good enough for about 95% of my uses even though ideal would have been over 4 hours. Don’t think my E8 or G1 are going to see much use now


----------



## jant71

hifi80sman said:


> Anyone try the fFLAT5 Aria Two TWE?
> https://www.amazon.com/fFLAT5-Aria-Two-Wireless-Bluetooth/dp/B01MZ8ZGKS
> 
> Look kinda unique and specs look good.



Reading the same thing as me?? BT4.0, only "up to 3 hour" battery and no FF/RW. Only volume control. Specs don't look so hot. $99 now and not $249 like before but that is due to it's age so 3 hours, BT4.0, and no ambient from early 2017 are expected but not good today.


----------



## hifi80sman

jant71 said:


> Reading the same thing as me?? BT4.0, only "up to 3 hour" battery and no FF/RW. Only volume control. Specs don't look so hot. $99 now and not $249 like before but that is due to it's age so 3 hours, BT4.0, and no ambient from early 2017 are expected but not good today.


To clarify, audio specs, more so the Japanese proprietary stuff.

“DIFFERENCE - Our TRUE MUSIC earbuds feature Furukawa Patented Hi-Fi Sound Driver Technology, SBR DAC”

“Qualcomm aptX, and AAC”

I’m not going to pass on something just because it doesn’t have BT 5.  I have stuff that’s BT 3.0 (Sony MDR-1ABT) all the way BT 5.  I notice no difference in the TWEs I have that are BT 4.2 vs. BT 5 in both audio quality and range.  B&O E8 (BT 4.2) have battery life that’s about the same as the MTW (BT 5).


----------



## korefuji (Jan 21, 2019)

RobinFood said:


> I live in Japan and on amazon jp it says it is using the new QCC3026 chip. If it had an ambient mode I would have ordered it, its the highest rated TWE and all the reviews talk about its excellent balanced sound. Graphene coated drivers.
> 
> https://www.amazon.co.jp/gp/aw/d/B07KVRJBVG/ref=ox_sc_saved_image_1?smid=A2VJBAZIY75XKO&psc=1



I checked out their website, it has english translations, and mention something about HDSS which is their proprietary drivers i guess? Not sure, but they seem really good, too bad it's Japan only

I was going to pull the trigger, but it says out of stock


----------



## jant71

hifi80sman said:


> To clarify, audio specs, more so the Japanese proprietary stuff.
> 
> “DIFFERENCE - Our TRUE MUSIC earbuds feature Furukawa Patented Hi-Fi Sound Driver Technology, SBR DAC”
> 
> ...



Again, No track control, many want their ambient, and maybe 3 hours and 12 total battery is why I would pass. I don't care about BT no. model more than antenna model/tech so not sure I would trust something older like that to have a very stable connection or range. I would hope it had aptX and AAC for $249 original price. I just bought a wired model that is $49 and has AAA/aptX, and aptX LL.

We have a lot of driver claims out there but how does it really sound?? Plenty of claims out there turn out to be marketing hype that so it is risky. I am still mostly Japan based with my gear being Oriolus, Elecom, JVC etc. but Japan stuff tend to be tuned a certain way and can also not be so hot so I don't look at it as a slam dunk great sounding item. You can buy and try but since it is old does it sound good for 2017 or is it good with today's competition? Again, we differ, but I don't look at that one as anything but a risky proposition that wouldn't be high enough on my list to try out.


----------



## webvan

WesennTony said:


> I have no connection issues with MW07 in gym, while Earin M2 have more drop outs, partly because the AAC codec in my phone (LG V30) I guess, despite that MW07 use AAC as well. I still prefer M2 over MW07 for gym use, though. They're comparatively small and lightweight, feeling non-existent during workout, and I don't care too much about the sound quality in that circumstance. Besides, while MW07 work well for strength training and weight lifting, for running *I can feel the thumping* and also the rattling sound in the left earbud. *I don't notice these in M2*.



That's interesting because it seemed a given that any isolating IEMs would generate that  annoying thumping, hence why the X12 are so nice for running, but the the M2 don't ? Is it possibly thanks to the Comply it comes with ? I've yet to find an IEM where the sound was as good with Complys as with the stock silicone tips as I've always found to muffle the sound excessively, having a comply in one year and a silicone in the other really hits hard ! They also wear out super quickly so I'm not sure how Earin are going to be handling that ? Is it just a standard Comply model ?


----------



## hifi80sman

jant71 said:


> Again, No track control, many want their ambient, and maybe 3 hours and 12 total battery is why I would pass. I don't care about BT no. model more than antenna model/tech so not sure I would trust something older like that to have a very stable connection or range. I would hope it had aptX and AAC for $249 original price. I just bought a wired model that is $49 and has AAA/aptX, and aptX LL.
> 
> We have a lot of driver claims out there but how does it really sound?? Plenty of claims out there turn out to be marketing hype that so it is risky. I am still mostly Japan based with my gear being Oriolus, Elecom, JVC etc. but Japan stuff tend to be tuned a certain way and can also not be so hot so I don't look at it as a slam dunk great sounding item. You can buy and try but since it is old does it sound good for 2017 or is it good with today's competition? Again, we differ, but I don't look at that one as anything but a risky proposition that wouldn't be high enough on my list to try out.


I have no idea how these things sound.  They look interesting with some curious Japanese tech claims.  Thanks for your input.

Anyone else have any experience with these things?  @RobinFood?  @turbobb?


----------



## nc8000

webvan said:


> That's interesting because it seemed a given that any isolating IEMs would generate that  annoying thumping, hence why the X12 are so nice for running, but the the M2 don't ? Is it possibly thanks to the Comply it comes with ? I've yet to find an IEM where the sound was as good with Complys as with the stock silicone tips as I've always found to muffle the sound excessively, having a comply in one year and a silicone in the other really hits hard ! They also wear out super quickly so I'm not sure how Earin are going to be handling that ? Is it just a standard Comply model ?



I use SpinFits with my M2 and I certainly get the thump when walking, don’t see how any totally isolating in ear can not get it


----------



## turbobb

@hifi80sman -I came across those during my searches but when I saw they were only BT4, I crossed them off in consideration that my primary source would be my V30. While there is absolutely nothing wrong with getting / using older tech, Bluetooth prior to v4.1 had a bit of problems with 4G LTE and v4.1 resolved that. I recall based on personal experiences that this held true so since I found out about that, I've always looked at v4.1 as a minimum. They do look interesting but I've not had direct experience. If anything, I was looking into these:
https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B07KS2TBRC
(I've reached the threshold with the current batch I'm testing, else I'd jump in... ;o))

They purportedly have aptX (I asked the community and an owner verified it via DevOptions) but what's really interesting is that they're the only TWEs I'm aware of that allows passive listening via headphone cable! I'm aware of BT headphones/earbuds that had this feature but never TWEs.


----------



## hifi80sman (Jan 21, 2019)

turbobb said:


> @hifi80sman -I came across those during my searches but when I saw they were only BT4, I crossed them off in consideration that my primary source would be my V30. While there is absolutely nothing wrong with getting / using older tech, Bluetooth prior to v4.1 had a bit of problems with 4G LTE and v4.1 resolved that. I recall based on personal experiences that this held true so since I found out about that, I've always looked at v4.1 as a minimum. They do look interesting but I've not had direct experience. If anything, I was looking into these:
> https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B07KS2TBRC
> (I've reached the threshold with the current batch I'm testing, else I'd jump in... ;o))
> 
> They purportedly have aptX (I asked the community and an owner verified it via DevOptions) but what's really interesting is that they're the only TWEs I'm aware of that allows passive listening via headphone cable! I'm aware of BT headphones/earbuds that had this feature but never TWEs.


Interesting...I was not aware of the issue with BT 4.0 & earlier and 4G LTE.  I haven’t had any issues with non-TWEs I have, but I can only assume the issue is compounded with TWEs.

Anroog?!  Love that company!    Do you know what chipset they use and if they support AAC/aptX?  I agree the cable option is compelling, so long as the drivers are quality, of course.


----------



## cityle (Jan 21, 2019)

Guys, I need your help to get a decent truly wireless earbud. I'm getting tired of trying various kind and you seem to have quite a knowledge here so I'm turning to you.

Up to now, I had 3 truly wireless: the _Sony WF-1000x_, _B&O Beoplay E8_ and _Sony SP-700N_. The sound of the _WF-1000x_ impressed me at first, but noise level was too high, connection was sometime unreliable and was sticking out of the ears which is not ideal with a tuque. _Beoplay E8_ I just took them out of the box, tried them, updated the firmware, tried them and just send them back. I just found the sound awful. Finally, the _SP-700N_ was too bassy for my taste, although I kind got used to it, but also was sticking out of the ears in a way that it was uncomfortable with a tuque.

So now I'm looking either at the _ATH-CKR7TW_ or _Sennheiser MTW_. I've read good review about those but they are kind of pricey and not sure which one would be best. Also, I would want to know your opinion about the _IconX 2018_ as I would be able to get a pair for cheap if they would be adequate.

Keep in mind I'm kind of fond of Audio-Techinca signature sound, with my _ATH-AD900x_ being my long-runner I'm using every day and my beloved _ATH-IM02_, and that I like clear sound, not liking bassy or dark signatures.


----------



## Edward Ng

cityle said:


> Guys, I need your help to get a decent truly wireless earbud. I'm getting tired of trying various kind and you seem to have quite a knowledge here so I'm turning to you.
> 
> Up to now, I had 3 truly wireless: the _Sony WF-1000x_, _B&O Beoplay E8_ and _Sony SP-700N_. The sound of the _WF-1000x_ impressed me at first, but noise level was too high, connection was sometime unreliable and was sticking out of the year which is not ideal with a tuque. _Beoplay E8_ I just took them out of the box, tried them, updated the firmware, tried them and just send them back. I just found the sound awful. Finally, the _SP-700N_ was too bassy for my taste, although I kind got used to it, but also was sticking out of the ear in a way that it was comfortable with a tuque.
> 
> ...


 
I’m a long time Westone listener here, and having just switched to a set of Sennheiser MTW, I will tell you for a fact that they are bright, not dark (but not harshly so).

-Ed


----------



## hifi80sman (Jan 21, 2019)

cityle said:


> Guys, I need your help to get a decent truly wireless earbud. I'm getting tired of trying various kind and you seem to have quite a knowledge here so I'm turning to you.
> 
> Up to now, I had 3 truly wireless: the _Sony WF-1000x_, _B&O Beoplay E8_ and _Sony SP-700N_. The sound of the _WF-1000x_ impressed me at first, but noise level was too high, connection was sometime unreliable and was sticking out of the year which is not ideal with a tuque. _Beoplay E8_ I just took them out of the box, tried them, updated the firmware, tried them and just send them back. I just found the sound awful. Finally, the _SP-700N_ was too bassy for my taste, although I kind got used to it, but also was sticking out of the ear in a way that it was comfortable with a tuque.
> 
> ...


Good review from another member earlier in this thread:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/goi...re-we-there-yet.861024/page-231#post-14684781

The MTW sound good and have EQ via app, but it’s the dot EQ, so it’s no the best to fine tune.  Out of the box, the MTW sound bold and beefy, so probably not your flavor.  I haven’t listened to the ATH-CKR7TW, but reviews from here and around the internet suggest they are along the lines of what you’re looking for.

On another note, the IconX 2018 are very average sounding and a little grainy.  I had them and ended up returning.  They are a good daily driver if you’re on the go and want passable music quality.  If you just want to relax and enjoy your music, I would not go the IconX 2018 route.


----------



## korefuji (Jan 21, 2019)

hey guys, believe it or not I don't have a measuring tape, I need to know the bore size for the earin m-2, I'm thinking of trying those symbio mandarinE tips. Anyone can clue me in on the bore size.

NVM: I checked the spinfits i got for them and its 3.8mm for anyone else that wants to know.


----------



## WesennTony

webvan said:


> That's interesting because it seemed a given that any isolating IEMs would generate that  annoying thumping, hence why the X12 are so nice for running, but the the M2 don't ? Is it possibly thanks to the Comply it comes with ? I've yet to find an IEM where the sound was as good with Complys as with the stock silicone tips as I've always found to muffle the sound excessively, having a comply in one year and a silicone in the other really hits hard ! They also wear out super quickly so I'm not sure how Earin are going to be handling that ? Is it just a standard Comply model ?


I happened to check out your post when I was in gym, so I got a chance to do a thorough experiment and pay more attention. I use Spinfit cp100 medium size for left ear, and Sony hybrid (silicone, not triple comfort) large size for right ear. My right ear canal is larger, so usually I go for a larger size. Sony hybrid gives me flush mid and smooth treble, while Spinfit gives me a good amount of bass. Besides, they fit into the capsule more easily since Sony tip has shorter stem. I run/walk in the gym tracks, which have some kind of vinyl or PVC floor I guess. I haven't try running/walking outdoor yet, since we've got very cold weather, and I don't need to commute to work. In gym, I disable the touch control on M2 by switching the codec to Aptx, and also turn the transparent mode off.

For walking and running, I still  did not notice any thumping at all. When running, there is a rattling sound in the right ear, but that came from the slightly loose joint between Sony hybrid and the earbud, not inside the earbud itself like MW07. If I hold the right bud with hand during running, the rattling disappeared. I think if I use Spinfit as well the rattling will be gone. I don't have MW07 in hand now, but I tried them before, and the thumping and rattling are quite obvious. I may have loose seal on M2, but they're secure enough without falling out whatsoever. 

I guess things may be different if I run/walk on the rough, hard concrete surface with a higher impact. But M2s defintely have much less thumping. Also I'm afraid the foam tips may produce more thumping instead.


----------



## clerkpalmer

Edward Ng said:


> I’m a long time Westone listener here, and having just switched to a set of Sennheiser MTW, I will tell you for a fact that they are bright, not dark (but not harshly so).
> 
> -Ed


Interesting. Bright is not something that comes to mind when thinking of the MTW. I would not call them dark sounding either. I think the bass is a bit boomy and muddy. It can be eqd out though.


----------



## Edward Ng

clerkpalmer said:


> Interesting. Bright is not something that comes to mind when thinking of the MTW. I would not call them dark sounding either. I think the bass is a bit boomy and muddy. It can be eqd out though.



It probably has to do with the fact that I’ve spent the last 10+ years listening to Westone 4s with deep Comply tips; I’ve been so accustomed to such a laid back sound that the Sennheiser Momentums _seem_ significantly bright(er).

-Ed


----------



## RobinFood

korefuji said:


> I checked out their website, it has english translations, and mention something about HDSS which is their proprietary drivers i guess? Not sure, but they seem really good, too bad it's Japan only
> 
> I was going to pull the trigger, but it says out of stock



I think HDSS is a sound scaler, that takes the incomplete bluetooth signal and tries to fill in the blanks to give a sound closer to 24-bit files. I think JVC also uses it in their neckband bluetooth earphones and they got a lot of praise for the sound boost...I think it was toggleable.


----------



## turbobb (Jan 22, 2019)

These are basically glorified T5's at over 3x the price and also using QCC3026:
https://smile.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B07K49R8J2

Wondering what do our bretherens in Japan say about 'em?

EDIT: I just saw that it was covered earlier in this thread many pages back...


----------



## RobinFood

RobinFood said:


> I think HDSS is a sound scaler, that takes the incomplete bluetooth signal and tries to fill in the blanks to give a sound closer to 24-bit files. I think JVC also uses it in their neckband bluetooth earphones and they got a lot of praise for the sound boost...I think it was toggleable.



Did a little more digging on the what HDSS was, and it is not the sound scaler I thought it was...the sound scaler is DSEE HX - Sony uses it I think.

Anyways, HDSS (High Definition Sound Standard) is basically just a certification... http://www.tbisound.com/hdss.html
Based on the certification points I would guess that the sound of the Nuarl is dead neutral with as little coloring as possible.



turbobb said:


> These are basically glorified T5's at over 3x the price and also using QCC3026:
> https://smile.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B07K49R8J2
> 
> Wondering what do our bretherens in Japan say about 'em?
> ...



I saw those but was turned off by the HUGE case. The shells also look just as cheap in person. The selling point here is that it is a Japanese company, and they claim to tune the earphones for Japanese music, so I am guessing a light but fast and detailed bass response and extended female vocals. People in Japan love buying from Japanese companies, but they just didn't look very good to me. Amazon Japan reviews are mixed, some people say it didn't pair with their phone, or they had problems getting it to work right.


----------



## Wrathbringer27

Just got the Mifo O5 standard version. Sound quality is nice not too sharp and bass is ok. Clarity is fine too. But there is a tiny lag like half a milisecond. Not too much of a problem.

Question: How do I check the audio code being used on the TWE? I'm using a Mate 20 Pro


----------



## Rickyearl

Just "won" an auction on eBay for $230 for the MW07 in Gray Terrazo.  So I'm going to retry them based upon all the raves here.  

I just can't in good conscience keep 3-4 different "higher end"  TW, though, so that means either they, the MTW or the M2 will be leaving along with the E8.


----------



## KarimLeVallois

Rickyearl said:


> Just "won" an auction on eBay for $230 for the MW07 in Gray Terrazo.  So I'm going to retry them based upon all the raves here.
> 
> I just can't in good conscience keep 3-4 different "higher end"  TW, though, so that means either they, the MTW or the M2 will be leaving along with the E8.



I’m selling my E8 as I type this...


----------



## Rickyearl

Any word on the Senn MTW firmware updates?  I had in my head that they promised 2 different updates for January.


----------



## Edward Ng

Rickyearl said:


> Any word on the Senn MTW firmware updates?  I had in my head that they promised 2 different updates for January.


What did they promise to fix or add?

-Ed


----------



## chinmie

Wrathbringer27 said:


> Just got the Mifo O5 standard version. Sound quality is nice not too sharp and bass is ok. Clarity is fine too. But there is a tiny lag like half a milisecond. Not too much of a problem.
> 
> Question: How do I check the audio code being used on the TWE? I'm using a Mate 20 Pro



access developer option, you can see the codec currently used there. the mifo by default should be on AAC


----------



## Rickyearl (Jan 22, 2019)

Edward Ng said:


> What did they promise to fix or add?
> 
> -Ed



There's a post on this thread from @BigZ12 that describes them.  I'll try to find that.

EDIT - HERE
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/goi...re-we-there-yet.861024/page-247#post-14697494


----------



## nicholasbgr

Anyone in Canada with the Sennheiser MTW? I’ve ordered from their online store on Jan 5th and never got a shipping confirmation. Called multiple times, escalated the issue to a supervisor but was never able to get a shipping estimate. From reading reports about their online store I can already tell this will be a pain to cancel. Anyone know a place I could walk in here in 
Toronto and get them?

Also I’ve read some worrying reports about the IEMs draining their battery and the case battery while stored. Is that a widespread issue?


----------



## alchemical

nicholasbgr said:


> Anyone in Canada with the Sennheiser MTW? I’ve ordered from their online store on Jan 5th and never got a shipping confirmation. Called multiple times, escalated the issue to a supervisor but was never able to get a shipping estimate. From reading reports about their online store I can already tell this will be a pain to cancel. Anyone know a place I could walk in here in
> Toronto and get them?
> 
> Also I’ve read some worrying reports about the IEMs draining their battery and the case battery while stored. Is that a widespread issue?


Sorry to say I've seen lots of other people reporting the same battery issues I had with both of my sets, now returned.


----------



## howdy

nicholasbgr said:


> Anyone in Canada with the Sennheiser MTW? I’ve ordered from their online store on Jan 5th and never got a shipping confirmation. Called multiple times, escalated the issue to a supervisor but was never able to get a shipping estimate. From reading reports about their online store I can already tell this will be a pain to cancel. Anyone know a place I could walk in here in
> Toronto and get them?
> 
> Also I’ve read some worrying reports about the IEMs draining their battery and the case battery while stored. Is that a widespread issue?


I bought mine from the Sennheiser website and had them within a week, it was fast shipping.
As for the battery. I'm one of the lucky ones I guess. Ive never had any issues and I can go days without charging and still ready to go. I charged mine Saturday and I have them in now for about 25 minutes and they are at 91 left and 89 right side.


----------



## joshnor713

howdy said:


> I bought mine from the Sennheiser website and had them within a week, it was fast shipping.
> As for the battery. I'm one of the lucky ones I guess. Ive never had any issues and I can go days without charging and still ready to go. I charged mine Saturday and I have them in now for about 25 minutes and they are at 91 left and 89 right side.



Me too. Don't see the battery issues that others are seeing. That said, everything hasn't been perfect. In my first pair, the left bud had significant hissing. Had to get a replacement.

I must say, does seem like Sennheiser's QC went down with this headphone. It is manufactured in China as opposed to Germany. Maybe that wasn't the best move.


----------



## kiwikozo (Jan 22, 2019)

So the MW07 is uncomfortable for me because my ears are smaller than average. I also realised there is no way to for me to check the battery % due to the lack of an app (Samsung).

Samsung doesn't show you battery % for Bluetooth devices unless they are a samsung "gear" device.

What were they thinking with such a mirrored case? Fingerprints?!? Nobody else has moaned about this?


----------



## howdy

kiwikozo said:


> So the MW07 is uncomfortable for me because my ears are smaller than average. I also realised there is no way to for me to check the battery % due to the lack of an app (Samsung).
> 
> Samsung doesn't show you battery % for Bluetooth devices unless they are a samsung "gear" device.
> 
> What were they thinking with such a mirrored case? Fingerprints?!? Nobody else has moaned about this?


Oops, wrong device
 So you gonna sell the MW07?


----------



## assassin10000

kiwikozo said:


> Samsung doesn't show you battery % for Bluetooth devices unless they are a samsung "gear" device.



FYI: there is an app for android called "BatON" that will show battery levels of bluetooth devices. I use it on my Note as normally there is no way to check the battery on my BT20.


----------



## kiwikozo

I tried that app when I had the RHAs but it was very glitchy and crashed on my S8+.

That's not too much of an issue if they give me 2.5 hours of battery life without intrusive warnings. Would be nice if they fix this issue on the s10 next month.

I will still listen to them but the fit is not good for me and the case is gaaah. I'd take a thin cheap plastic case over a mirrored finish case any day.


----------



## assassin10000

kiwikozo said:


> I tried that app when I had the RHAs but it was very glitchy and crashed on my S8+.



I disabled all the notifications and only open the app to check battery life. I noticed the notifications don't always update. Of course my BT20's get 6-7 hours typically, so I don't need to check often.


----------



## Tommy C

nicholasbgr said:


> Anyone in Canada with the Sennheiser MTW? I’ve ordered from their online store on Jan 5th and never got a shipping confirmation. Called multiple times, escalated the issue to a supervisor but was never able to get a shipping estimate. From reading reports about their online store I can already tell this will be a pain to cancel. Anyone know a place I could walk in here in
> Toronto and get them?



Yes, definitely.
https://baybloorradio.com/headphones/wireless/sennheiser-momentum-true-wireless-in-ear-headphones 

You can demo them and the MW07 while you’re at it.


----------



## nicholasbgr

Tommy C said:


> Yes, definitely.
> https://baybloorradio.com/headphones/wireless/sennheiser-momentum-true-wireless-in-ear-headphones
> 
> You can demo them and the MW07 while you’re at it.


Sweet! They had no stock when I checked them. Will try to pay a visit tomorrow. Thanks man!


----------



## Tommy C

nicholasbgr said:


> Sweet! They had no stock when I checked them. Will try to pay a visit tomorrow. Thanks man!



No problem! 
If you haven’t been there it’s the lower level for headphones and you can demo almost everything.
If they don’t have a demo they will open a new box for you.  
The building is being completely renovated so it looks like the store is closed but it’s not, they open regular hours.


----------



## chinmie

assassin10000 said:


> FYI: there is an app for android called "BatON" that will show battery levels of bluetooth devices. I use it on my Note as normally there is no way to check the battery on my BT20.



the BatON is a good app. also on my Note 8 (that i haven't installed the BatON yet), everytime i turn on my TWS and connect to my phone, there is a notification saying "100% battery remaining", and if say i use it for a few hours and then toggle the bluetooth off and then on again, it will say the percentage of the battery remaining. 

so my conclusion is that the android system is capable of doing it without any additional app like the BatON

but for the life of me i can't call that notification at will unless i toggle the bluetooth off and on again. does anybody know how to turn it on everytime we like?


----------



## turbobb

@hifi80sman - I'll c ur Comexion and raise you a CUFOK: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07MFHJ6MX  - The only reason I got these aside from the IPX7 is the seller claimed it had Airoha AB1526P with AAC but upon receiving it, I'm not able to connect in AAC. In hind-sight, it's nearly identical to the Comexion aside from the better WR rating and the charging case that can also act as a portable USB charger.

Sadly it was the same story with this one: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07L9P6CLQ (no AAC either despite seller claims). Really wish these guys would get a grip on their product specs. I wonder if somehow they didn't enable it (I don't see why they wouldn't given it's a selling point) or if perhaps there may be a bait-n-switch with the OEM's promising the 1526B but utilizing a cheaper chipset instead. The connection isn't great with this one; a simple test I always do right after getting a TWE is to just cup my hands over each one while worn to see if the signal cuts out between them. If it does, it's USUALLY (though not always) a VERY good indicator I'll encounter connection issues as I did with the MPow T5's which failed that test badly. Not so with the Aermoo B3's which are rock solid connection-wise.

I'm done chasing... decided to give in and grab a MW07 just so I have a high-end reference point to qualify when I say something sounds good or bad.

P.S. Aside from the first, some other more interesting mfr names of TWEs I found on Amazon:
REFURBISHHOUSE <- while I'm all for getting discounts on refurb's, not really sure they realize this has a negative connotation for new products
G-WACK
Mebuyz
Tiamat < 80's D&D cartoon anyone?
Qjuxron - is the Q or the J silent?
ZFKJERS - Qjuxron? Not impressed! I'll see your double-consonants at the start and double that


----------



## clerkpalmer

While it’s fun to try new models out sometimes it’s best to just pay the premium for the good stuff. Seems like the segments are pretty clear right now: sub 100 cheapies, 100 to 200 such as spn700, soundsport free, Jabra and rha and the 200 plus MTW and MW07 (although actually 300). Based on all the pages of this thread, it’s pretty clear you get what you pay for generally speaking with a few outliers on the edges here and there. 

Seems like sq is directly tied to price. Features not as much.


----------



## Tommy C (Jan 22, 2019)

clerkpalmer said:


> While it’s fun to try new models out sometimes it’s best to just pay the premium for the good stuff. Seems like the segments are pretty clear right now: sub 100 cheapies, 100 to 200 such as spn700, soundsport free, Jabra and rha and the 200 plus MTW and MW07 (although actually 300). Based on all the pages of this thread, it’s pretty clear you get what you pay for generally speaking with a few outliers on the edges here and there.
> 
> Seems like sq is directly tied to price. Features not as much.



Yeah, financially it makes more sense to just buy a mid or top tier set and call it a day.
I have tried a few chi-fi sets and none of those really impressed me and quality was always suspect.


----------



## Bob24

SomeGuyDude said:


> Funny how the only TWE that reports battery life of both earpieces has everyone complaining about battery imbalance. Can't imagine the two are related.



I don’t know all models, but at least the airpods also do report it to be fair, and drastic imbalance like the 0% / 90% screenshot someone posted is an issue no matter what. But you mayhave a point, possibly other earphones have the same issue and people just don’t notice.


----------



## nc8000

Not only LV take an existing product and bling it up for a considerable premium


----------



## webvan

WesennTony said:


> I happened to check out your post when I was in gym, so I got a chance to do a thorough experiment and pay more attention. I use Spinfit cp100 medium size for left ear, and Sony hybrid (silicone, not triple comfort) large size for right ear. My right ear canal is larger, so usually I go for a larger size. Sony hybrid gives me flush mid and smooth treble, while Spinfit gives me a good amount of bass. Besides, they fit into the capsule more easily since Sony tip has shorter stem. I run/walk in the gym tracks, which have some kind of vinyl or PVC floor I guess. I haven't try running/walking outdoor yet, since we've got very cold weather, and I don't need to commute to work. In gym, I disable the touch control on M2 by switching the codec to Aptx, and also turn the transparent mode off.
> 
> For walking and running, I still  did not notice any thumping at all. When running, there is a rattling sound in the right ear, but that came from the slightly loose joint between Sony hybrid and the earbud, not inside the earbud itself like MW07. If I hold the right bud with hand during running, the rattling disappeared. I think if I use Spinfit as well the rattling will be gone. I don't have MW07 in hand now, but I tried them before, and the thumping and rattling are quite obvious. I may have loose seal on M2, but they're secure enough without falling out whatsoever.
> 
> I guess things may be different if I run/walk on the rough, hard concrete surface with a higher impact. But M2s defintely have much less thumping. Also I'm afraid the foam tips may produce more thumping instead.


Thanks for the feedback. The M2 do appear to have something special ! You would probably notice a loose seal, I check by rubbing my fingers next to my ears. As for mixing eartips, doesn't that produce some imbalance in the sound ?


----------



## howdy

Whats the average price for the M2s? Ive seen them from $250 to $450. Ive been watching reviews on these and they seem like a good BT.


----------



## WesennTony

webvan said:


> Thanks for the feedback. The M2 do appear to have something special ! You would probably notice a loose seal, I check by rubbing my fingers next to my ears. As for mixing eartips, doesn't that produce some imbalance in the sound ?


I think the nearly cylindrical shape of the M2 makes more even undulation across the earbud during running, which together with a small form factor, lightweight and a slightly loose seal can reduce the thumping a lot. It's perfect for on the go if you just need a pleasant background music to block the noise. 
The sound always leans toward my right ear no matter what IEM/headphones I use, and my left ear is a little more sensitive to bass. So I don't notice any sound imbalance with mixing eartips. Usually I take the right earbud out first to act as master, and the sound is quite right for me. Usually I don't listen longer than when they switch the master, but I heard that the new fw update solve the issue of shifting sound center, so that should be OK. 

BTW, I just received the airpods sleeves and tried them on the Sabbat X12 pro. I need to cut a little bit on the bottom to make a perfect fit, but it's an easy job. They add a bit more friction and comfort to me. Still not enough for working out, though.


----------



## WesennTony

howdy said:


> Whats the average price for the M2s? Ive seen them from $250 to $450. Ive been watching reviews on these and they seem like a good BT.


I got them on sale at $175 two weeks ago. I'm not sure I'll pay the original price $249 now on their website. The SQ is still clearly behind MW07.


----------



## WesennTony

korefuji said:


> hey guys, believe it or not I don't have a measuring tape, I need to know the bore size for the earin m-2, I'm thinking of trying those symbio mandarinE tips. Anyone can clue me in on the bore size.
> 
> NVM: I checked the spinfits i got for them and its 3.8mm for anyone else that wants to know.


I got some Symbio W and they fit M2 perfectly.


----------



## Rickyearl (Jan 23, 2019)

howdy said:


> Whats the average price for the M2s? Ive seen them from $250 to $450. Ive been watching reviews on these and they seem like a good BT.



A lot of us got them for the $175 after Christmas sale price.  I assume they will drop to that level or lower again in the near- to mid-term.  Right now they're $250 but black is OOS.

I personally think the black Earins with the case for the white ones (raw aluminium color) would sell well.  I just think the plain aluminum case looks cooler.

I got the white and they're more noticeable when worn - which is generally a good thing when people talk to you since the're so small.

@WesennTony says they're a step down SQ wise from the MW07, which makes sense because they're also a step down from the MTW.  But I think they're far better than the IconX or the Jabras, so at $175 they're worth it.  Agree that at $249, not so much.


----------



## korefuji

WesennTony said:


> I got some Symbio W and they fit M2 perfectly.


Bugger, I bought the Symbio -n


----------



## Inear

Philips returns to the audio business.

https://www.techradar.com/news/philips-returns-to-audio-with-upbeat-shb2505-true-wireless-earphones


----------



## Spamateur (Jan 23, 2019)

So, my Mavin Air-X arrived today. I returned the Sennheiser MTW a few days ago and sold my Jabra Elite 65t, so this is my only TW pair right now.

I bought directly from Mavin's website, which was a little janky of a process (the site itself feels very Chi-Fi-ish and not very professional). I hope they find a better distribution network in the US. It took them roughly 6 days total to ship (and I also emailed their sales department after a few days as they hadn't shipped out on Friday as the order confirmation page had promised), but the shipping itself was very quick (FedEx International Priority) and took only 2 days from Taiwan upon receiving my tracking number.

The packaging is compact but feels decently high-quality. The case is slightly larger than an AirPods case, so about the size of a pack of dental floss except a bit thicker. It's made of glossy plastic so it's not the most attractive or luxurious item, but it feels sturdy and the magnetic lid is satisfyingly tight. The lid opens easily by tilting it back, but it is easily to do with 2 hands.

I'm only a few songs in but WOW, these sound really good. The frequency response is mostly neutral, clean and natural. There's a tasteful bass lift which gives the Air-X some toe-tapping ability but everything else feels pretty neutral across the spectrum with well-defined mids and a sparkly treble. There is no obvious audible distortion or grain, although they're not as clean in absolute terms as the Sennheiser MTW or Bose SoundSport Free, and the resolution is on par the better TW sets I've heard, albeit not the absolute best. I actually prefer the SQ of these to the MTW, which were a tad on the aggressive side for my taste. The only real downside to the sound quality is the fact that there's some slight hiss in quieter songs. It's not enough to bother me when the music is playing, but it's there. EDIT: Hmmm... I'm trying some better-recorded tracks and actually don't notice as much hiss as earlier. Perhaps I was hearing the noise floor from the recordings themselves when listening earlier?

I haven't had them long enough to test battery life claims, but if they're anywhere near the quoted specs they're going to have more than enough juice to keep me happy.

My initial impression (and keep in mind this is still early) is that these are among the best TW IEMs available today. They're not the absolute best in terms of sound quality, but they're not far off. I'm excited to see what living with them is like.


----------



## Herman

I have a pair of Sennheiser MTW with power drain issues. Bought them directly with Sennheiser 3 weeks ago. Today service reply from Sennheiser that this is due to a known firmware bug and that update to fix this will be released soon. SQ is excellent, with more Bass in comparison with the Beoplay E8 that sound more neutral.


----------



## hifi80sman

turbobb said:


> @hifi80sman - I'll c ur Comexion and raise you a CUFOK: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07MFHJ6MX  - The only reason I got these aside from the IPX7 is the seller claimed it had Airoha AB1526P with AAC but upon receiving it, I'm not able to connect in AAC. In hind-sight, it's nearly identical to the Comexion aside from the better WR rating and the charging case that can also act as a portable USB charger.
> 
> Sadly it was the same story with this one: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07L9P6CLQ (no AAC either despite seller claims). Really wish these guys would get a grip on their product specs. I wonder if somehow they didn't enable it (I don't see why they wouldn't given it's a selling point) or if perhaps there may be a bait-n-switch with the OEM's promising the 1526B but utilizing a cheaper chipset instead. The connection isn't great with this one; a simple test I always do right after getting a TWE is to just cup my hands over each one while worn to see if the signal cuts out between them. If it does, it's USUALLY (though not always) a VERY good indicator I'll encounter connection issues as I did with the MPow T5's which failed that test badly. Not so with the Aermoo B3's which are rock solid connection-wise.
> 
> ...


I ended up ordering this:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07JF95846

It looks identical to a more expensive version here  (both models noted as “i11) that the seller indicates has AAC but not aptX.  10 mm graphene drivers, BT 5.  I haven’t received it yet, but it looks compelling.  If they are as good as the claim to be for $25.99, I may return the MW07.  Just kidding.

My hope is that they sound good without any major compromises that are common with budget sets.

Speaking of the Comexion, I’m actually listening to them right now and think they are very solid _after_ EQ.  I’m streaming Spotify (Extreme Quality), and using the in-app Spotify EQ over my iPhone, which oddly, I think works better than the Android EQ (I have an s8 as well).  Even though they are only SBC, the sound is smooth, bass is textured, and the highs don’t sound “cheap”.  They also feel quality built and have good battery life.

I think you’re right, they may just boxing glove the keyboard for Chi-Fi names, and in between, they’ll grab long names like “refurbished” or  “telekinesis” and make that their company name.  Get ready for the Telekinesis Moov T1.


----------



## Spamateur

Question for anyone that uses the Mavin Air-X with a TrueWireless Stereo Plus-capable phone connected: 

I'm using a Google Pixel 3 XL, so I should be able to use TrueWireless Stereo Plus. I went through the phone pairing process where the Left earpiece connects first, then pops up a dialogue box asking to pair the Right earpiece. The pairing process seemed to work fine, but my phone only shows the L bud connected. Is this normal? Does that mean TrueWireless Stereo Plus is not working?


----------



## Rickyearl

Herman said:


> I have a pair of Sennheiser MTW with power drain issues. Bought them directly with Sennheiser 3 weeks ago. Today service reply from Sennheiser that this is due to a known firmware bug and that update to fix this will be released soon. SQ is excellent, with more Bass in comparison with the Beoplay E8 that sound more neutral.


I'm beginning to think these were rushed out for the holiday buying season and we're all just beta testing them.

Although to be fair the E8 had a pretty significant firmware update roughly six months into their lifespan.


----------



## mikp

Spamateur said:


> Question for anyone that uses the Mavin Air-X with a TrueWireless Stereo Plus-capable phone connected:
> 
> I'm using a Google Pixel 3 XL, so I should be able to use TrueWireless Stereo Plus. I went through the phone pairing process where the Left earpiece connects first, then pops up a dialogue box asking to pair the Right earpiece. The pairing process seemed to work fine, but my phone only shows the L bud connected. Is this normal? Does that mean TrueWireless Stereo Plus is not working?



Same thing on my lg g7, did think it was because im still waiting for pie. But that pixel should have android 9. Contacted qualcomm and they said
_Our QCC3026 does support TrueWireless Plus (you can learn more at https://www.qualcomm.com/products/qcc3026) but it's up to each manufacturer on if or how they implement it in their products. We recommend you contact LG directly for any additional technical questions. We appreciate your interest in Qualcomm._

As of now I think the plus feature is just hype..


----------



## kiwikozo

Symbio W vs Spinfit CP100 anybody???

I have the Spinfit CP100 with my M2, haven't tried the Symbio W. How do they compare?


Returning MW07, a poor fit just isn't something I can live with. It's a shame they don't fit me well. They sound great, perfect for bass-heavy music. A wide soundstage with good instrument separation. 

However, I don't think the battery life, lack of an app, mirrored case (fingerprints and scratches) make it a better purchase compared to the MTW (If they weren't faulty). I prefer darker sounding headphones, so I'd go for the MTW if I had to pick between the two.


I'm incredibly happy with my earin M2 right now. With TW earphones comfort is of utmost importance since I'd only use them in the gym / shopping to block out the annoyances. The form factor and the size of the case make them feel truly special.


----------



## Rickyearl

kiwikozo said:


> Symbio W vs Spinfit CP100 anybody???
> 
> I have the Spinfit CP100 with my M2, haven't tried the Symbio W. How do they compare?



I would say in terms of muffle/seal/bassy sound,  Symbios are less so than comply and more so than Spinfits.  They're like less comply-y complys.  They isolate really well but they can also accentuate the low end.  All else equal on a more bass-oriented headphone, I would go with Spinfits.  

I have Spinfits on my M2 and my MTW.


----------



## Spamateur (Jan 23, 2019)

mikp said:


> Same thing on my lg g7, did think it was because im still waiting for pie. But that pixel should have android 9. Contacted qualcomm and they said
> _Our QCC3026 does support TrueWireless Plus (you can learn more at https://www.qualcomm.com/products/qcc3026) but it's up to each manufacturer on if or how they implement it in their products. We recommend you contact LG directly for any additional technical questions. We appreciate your interest in Qualcomm._
> 
> As of now I think the plus feature is just hype..



Yeah I'm running the latest Android release on my Pixel 3 XL. Hmmmm.

Y'know, I'm now wondering if despite only showing one earbud showing connected to my phone they actually are using TrueWireless Stereo Plus. I can take out one earbud and hold it several feet away from the other and still hear them both playing without any interruptions. Every TW using NFMI cuts out much sooner than that, so I think the Mavin Air-X is purely using bluetooth for both earpieces. It might just not show up as separate devices in the Android settings.

I sent an email to Mavin's sales support to check if this is expected behavior or not. Will report back when they respond.

BTW, these sound stupidly good. I couldn't be happier with the sound quality.


----------



## turbobb (Jan 23, 2019)

hifi80sman said:


> I ended up ordering this:
> https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07JF95846


Interested to hear your thoughts when you get 'em. The solar-power (TWEs in my 2nd link) are actually pretty good sounding and the touch controls are not super-sensitive resulting in less accidental invocations especially w/shower use. I might just end up keeping those.



Spamateur said:


> I sent an email to Mavin's sales support to check if this is expected behavior or not. Will report back when they respond.



Interested to hear what Mavin has to say about this but I doubt you've invoked TWS+. The way I understand it is that each earbud will show as connected to the source thus neither one has to act as the master and you save a bit of battery this way. This would improve the connectivity vastly over NFMI intra-bud connections (you just can't beat the Tx power of a smartphone over the tiny antenna in those buds). The other benefit to TWS+ is that if it supports multi-point connection, then you can have both earbuds connected to two sources and use it seamlessly. Currently when one acts as a master, it is in fact connected to two devices (source and the other bud) thus multipoint is not possible. I suspect BT5 is the reason for your improved intra-bud connection experience.

Can you do a hand-cup test (just cover each ear bud with your hands completely, more so with the thicker part of your palm rather than your fingers) and see if connectivity drops out? The Mpow T5 which uses the same QCC3026 as in the Mavin failed this badly.

P.S. Could be a heckuva coincidence but the QCC3026 page (https://www.qualcomm.com/products/qcc3026) as well as the entire QCC30XX product brief (https://www.qualcomm.com/media/documents/files/qcc30xx-series-product-brief.pdf) are both currently inaccessible on Qualcomm's website. Wondering if in fact they goofed about the TWS+ feature and are updating the pages? ;o)


----------



## Spamateur

turbobb said:


> Interested to hear what Mavin has to say about this but I doubt you've invoked TWS+. The way I understand it is that each earbud will show as connected to the source thus neither one has to act as the master and you save a bit of battery this way. This would improve the connectivity vastly over NFMI intra-bud connections (you just can't beat the Tx power of a smartphone over the tiny antenna in those buds). The other benefit to TWS+ is that if it supports multi-point connection, then you can have both earbuds connected to two sources and use it seamlessly. Currently when one acts as a master, it is in fact connected to two devices (source and the other bud) thus multipoint is not possible. I suspect BT5 is the reason for your improved intra-bud connection experience.
> 
> Can you do a hand-cup test (just cover each ear bud with your hands completely, more so with the thicker part of your palm rather than your fingers) and see if connectivity drops out? The Mpow T5 which uses the same QCC3026 as in the Mavin failed this badly.
> 
> P.S. Could be a heckuva coincdience but the QCC3026 page (https://www.qualcomm.com/products/qcc3026) as well as the entire QCC30XX product brief (https://www.qualcomm.com/media/documents/files/qcc30xx-series-product-brief.pdf) are both currently inaccesible on Qualcomm's website. Wondering if in fact they goofed about the TWS+ feature and are updating the pages? ;o)



Hmmm, I was actually just looking at that page earlier, and it still loads just fine for me (didn't try the pdf). Still lists TrueWireless Stereo Plus in the specifications as well.

You might very well be right. I just tried the cupped hands and if I hit the right spot on my palm (where it's meaty) the right piece cuts out if the left bud shows as connected, and the same on the right side if the right bud shows as connected to my phone (you can swap the two although it defaults to the left). It really only cuts out if i'm literally touching the earpieces with the heel of my palm, and it has to be a pretty specific position involving physical contact with the earpiece itself.


----------



## mikp

turbobb said:


> Interested to hear your thoughts when you get 'em. The solar-power (TWEs in my 2nd link) are actually pretty good sounding and the touch controls are not super-sensitive resulting in less accidental invocations especially w/shower use. I might just end up keeping those.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Ok, just read that no phone has the plus feature implemented yet. So a feature with no support. Considering how fragmented the android scene and updates are I have no hopes for it soon.


----------



## RobinFood

Here is a review of the Glidic TW-7000. I think it is Japan exclusive at the moment.

It has bluetooth 5.0, supports SBC and AAC (apparently), has passthrough, a 9 hour battery time, and can charge the buds for 25 hours with the case. I am not sure how accurate that is. I only ever listen to music at most for two hours. Someone said they ran out of juice after about 6 hours online though. It does support fast charging, and 15 minutes gives you about 2 hours of music. 

Something really interesting about them is that the shells were designed by Canal Works, which is one of the top 3 big CIEM makers here in Japan (Along with Nobunaga and Fitear), and the shells are REALLY comfortable, and have a nice looking face plate on them. They look very nice in the ears, and the fit is a little deeper than most IEMs I am used to. You do need to pull your ear up to insert them fully though, and if you don't insert them properly they WILL fall out. They connect automatically after leaving the case, so by the time I have them in my ears they are ready to go.

The isolation is pretty good. Not Etymotics good, but still decent. The passthrough mode is very welcome, and you can activate it or deactivate it with the button on the left side. You can hear as though you had no earphones on. It works well for things close by, and you can even tell the direction it is coming from.

It is also the first TWE I have seen that does not have ANY water proofing. They didn't just forget to add it in the instructions, as they specifically tell you again in the instructions that there is no waterproof rating on them, so don't get them wet. They also use usb-b, so the same connector as your old android phones.

The connection is pretty stable. Not perfect though, I have had a few drop outs on one ear, but it didn't bother me that much. I think it might also be in part because I use passthrough all the time. It seems to disconnect more then. You can use one ear at a time, and both ears work when put far away from one another. There is also almost no audio lag, so I can watch movies or videos without any issues.

The sound is very nice on SBC. AAC connects, but no audio comes out. It's my biggest frustration with these earbuds right now. Is it a defect? I feel like changing them in, but I somehow get the feeling that it might be an issue with all the earbuds and the interaction with my DAP, since my crappy phone doesn't support AAC. 

Anyways, the sound is very nice. The bass is a little elevated. I would put it a notch above the ER4XR. They are about 2 or 3 notches down from the SP700n. You hear the sub-bass in "Skater Boy" perfectly. It is actually the perfect amount of bass for Rap or EDM, but can get overwhelming for rock.

The mids are still nice and clear, but a little recessed, giving a nice wide soundstage and black space between the different instruments. It creates very good imaging. 

The highs are a little rolled off. There is air, but no sparkle. It sounds like the HF5, where the cymbals sound ok, but it's like someone has a finger or a nail on them, and they don't sparkle fully. There is some graininess that appears sometimes, and seems to be dependent on the frequency and volume combination. The graininess frequency is about David Grohl's voice in the Foo Fighter's song, "Everlong". I suspect that this might be an issue with SBC, and might be a non-issue if I could get AAC to work right.

Overall, I find them to be pretty solid for the (roughly) 120$ I paid. I am not sure if I will keep them. I like the sound now, and they combing all the features I am looking for, but part of me is really annoyed about the AAC not working part. I think if I have time I will try and take a trip to the store and test a demo unit to see if it shares the same issue.


----------



## Spamateur

mikp said:


> Ok, just read that no phone has the plus feature implemented yet. So a feature with no support. Considering how fragmented the android scene and updates are I have no hopes for it soon.



Well that's frustrating to read. Did you hear this from Qualcomm?


----------



## ricarva

raheelc said:


> Also, regarding the Jabra's, I have the active 65t, and it seems like there may be a slight imbalance in the buds, with the left side being slightly stronger. However, I only notice it when the earbuds say "connected" or "disconnected". While listening to music, I don't perceive any sort of imbalance. However, there is some static/hissing when there is no music playing? Should I return/exchange these as well for another pair and try my luck?



+1 for the left-bud-leaning imaging on the included voice prompts. And yes, for the most part, it does seem to be a non-issue when listening to any real audio.

+1 also for the hissing, though I specifically only get it on my left bud, and only from volume level 11 and up; below that, any hissing that might be there is nigh on inaudible. Once I step the volume to 11 (ou of the 15 possible ones), he hiss shows up and stays consistent as the volume increases to max.

This seems to be more of a feature than a bug. I'm on my second set of Elite Active 65Ts, and both had this behavior.


----------



## korefuji

Spamateur said:


> Well that's frustrating to read. Did you hear this from Qualcomm?


It's a little known fact that no phones support stereo plus yet, not from apple nor from any android manufacturer. I expect that to change, but for now you may find there are buds that claim stereo plus but you won't be able to use the feature until the phones support that feature. I don't expect we will see that feature on an apple phone, android is a given


----------



## Spamateur

korefuji said:


> It's a little known fact that no phones support stereo plus yet, not from apple nor from any android manufacturer. I expect that to change, but for now you may find there are buds that claim stereo plus but you won't be able to use the feature until the phones support that feature. I don't expect we will see that feature on an apple phone, android is a given



Yup, this reminds me of aptX adoption all over again. It took a few years for there to be widespread aptX implementation across the major Android phone manufacturers despite the fact that users were asking for it. Granted, audiophiles are a tiny, tiny niche market, and we also tend to be early adopters.


----------



## mikp

Spamateur said:


> Yup, this reminds me of aptX adoption all over again. It took a few years for there to be widespread aptX implementation across the major Android phone manufacturers despite the fact that users were asking for it. Granted, audiophiles are a tiny, tiny niche market, and we also tend to be early adopters.



somepne tweets about japanese releases mentioned

_To enable TWS+, it requires some patch to native Android, Qualcomm said. However, that patch is not yet released from Qcom and all of 845  smartphone cannot suppot TWS+, currently._

I read something about it some months ago, but cant find the link. So for now its only qualcomm tws, that seems to work fine.


----------



## Spamateur

mikp said:


> somepne tweets about japanese releases mentioned
> 
> _To enable TWS+, it requires some patch to native Android, Qualcomm said. However, that patch is not yet released from Qcom and all of 845  smartphone cannot suppot TWS+, currently._
> 
> I read something about it some months ago, but cant find the link. So for now its only qualcomm tws, that seems to work fine.



Ah, very interesting. Well, I do have to say the Mavin Air-X still sounds damn good, even without the convenience of TrueWireless Stereo Plus. I'm seriously starting to think it might be the best TW IEM on the market even from a SQ perspective (at least to my taste), although I have yet to try the MW07.


----------



## clerkpalmer

Spamateur said:


> Ah, very interesting. Well, I do have to say the Mavin Air-X still sounds damn good, even without the convenience of TrueWireless Stereo Plus. I'm seriously starting to think it might be the best TW IEM on the market even from a SQ perspective (at least to my taste), although I have yet to try the MW07.


You have peaked my interest.  $129 isn't exactly cheap for these.  Can you elaborate abit on SQ.  Have you compared them to Jabra, Bose or MTW?


----------



## Rickyearl

Spamateur said:


> Ah, very interesting. Well, I do have to say the Mavin Air-X still sounds damn good, even without the convenience of TrueWireless Stereo Plus. I'm seriously starting to think it might be the best TW IEM on the market even from a SQ perspective (at least to my taste), although I have yet to try the MW07.


----------



## WesennTony

Spamateur said:


> Ah, very interesting. Well, I do have to say the Mavin Air-X still sounds damn good, even without the convenience of TrueWireless Stereo Plus. I'm seriously starting to think it might be the best TW IEM on the market even from a SQ perspective (at least to my taste), although I have yet to try the MW07.


I'm curious if AptX codec is better than AAC in Air-X. Past reviews with ACC seems not that impressive. Have you tried them with AAC?


----------



## clerkpalmer

The Audio Technica sports have finally dropped.  I'm going in - order placed at Audio46.

Positive review here:  https://majorhifi.com/audio-technica-ath-sport7tw-review/

Not sure that they will unseat the MTW or MW07 but may beat out my 65ts, which have begun acting flakey.


----------



## webvan

WesennTony said:


> I think the nearly cylindrical shape of the M2 makes more even undulation across the earbud during running, which together with a small form factor, lightweight and a slightly loose seal can reduce the thumping a lot. It's perfect for on the go if you just need a pleasant background music to block the noise.
> The sound always leans toward my right ear no matter what IEM/headphones I use, and my left ear is a little more sensitive to bass. So I don't notice any sound imbalance with mixing eartips. Usually I take the right earbud out first to act as master, and the sound is quite right for me. Usually I don't listen longer than when they switch the master, but I heard that the new fw update solve the issue of shifting sound center, so that should be OK.
> 
> BTW, I just received the airpods sleeves and tried them on the Sabbat X12 pro. I need to cut a little bit on the bottom to make a perfect fit, but it's an easy job. They add a bit more friction and comfort to me. Still not enough for working out, though.



Will you still be able to fit them in the case though ? I no longer wear the X12 by tucking them behind the ridge in the back of my ear so I was able to put the spongy "covers" and they really help with comfort, no more contact "harsh" plastic. These are really great if you don't need isolation and are perfect for running or bike riding.


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## WesennTony (Jan 24, 2019)

webvan said:


> Will you still be able to fit them in the case though ? I no longer wear the X12 by tucking them behind the ridge in the back of my ear so I was able to put the spongy "covers" and they really help with comfort, no more contact "harsh" plastic. These are really great if you don't need isolation and are perfect for running or bike riding.


Yes, they fit in the case, even better than the sponge. But I'm still unlucky to let the right earbud stay in my ear securely, unless with the fin. I may have to give them up.


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## Spamateur (Jan 24, 2019)

WesennTony said:


> I'm curious if AptX codec is better than AAC in Air-X. Past reviews with ACC seems not that impressive. Have you tried them with AAC?



Haven't tried them with AAC yet as my phone defaults to AptX. I'll give it a shot when I have some time and report back.



clerkpalmer said:


> You have peaked my interest. $129 isn't exactly cheap for these. Can you elaborate abit on SQ. Have you compared them to Jabra, Bose or MTW?



Sure. I've owned the Senn MTW, Jabra 65t, B&O E8, Audio Technica CKR7TW, Bose SoundSport Free. Unfortunately none of those I owned at the same time as the Mavin Air-X, but the memory of all of those units is fairly fresh in my mind except for the E8 (which I returned within a day because my units sounded terrible), but take that with a grain of salt. I'm not going to mention the B&O and Audio Technica much as they're just not worth buying from my experience (the caveat being that a lot of people seem to love the E8 and there are reports of variability in sound quality).

The Mavins are probably closest to the Bose in sound signature: a downward-sloping frequency response that's mostly neutral with a tastefully elevated bass. I expect the Air-X closely align with the Harman curve in terms of frequency response, perhaps with a tad more bass. There are no obvious jarring peaks or troughs in the frequency response like there are with the Jabra 65t's ridiculous treble spike (unsurprisingly coincident with a large rise in distortion) or the entirety of the E8's bizarre frequency response. The Air-X feels natural to me in how it presents music, but keep in mind it seems to nail my personal preferred sound signature. While the MTW are also quite good, I find their sound signature to be much more aggressive, particularly in bass and treble, and on the forward side. The MTW I liked but never was able to truly sink into the music and let it carry me away like I am with the Air-X. The Mavins are more laid back in comparison, but aren't laid back in absolute terms.

In terms of other sound technicalities, the Bose have the largest soundstage since they don't actually insert into the ear canal, with the MTW in second and the Mavin in third in size of soundstage. I'd argue the MTW and Mavin have the best layering, separation and imaging, with the Bose not far behind from memory. The Air-X also sound very clean, clear and airy with excellent detail. They just sound "open" for lack of a better term and have a tonality and timbre that is "just right", not thick or thin. The Jabras in general sounded muffled with a thick tonality and an oddly thin and hashy treble, and they sound intimate and mid-forward and are lacking in clarity, soundstage and imaging. They're by far the worst in terms of SQ compared to the Mavin, Bose and Sennheiser.

I think what really struck me was how resolving the Mavin can be. I'd argue these provide the best detail of any TW model I've heard, rivaling even decent wired IEMs. This is the first time I've actually been impressed with the level and quality of detail in any TW IEM, as the Bose and Sennheiser seemed to be a bit lacking in terms of ultimate resolution in comparison, although they're still quite good compared in this regard compared to the rest of the TW space. This is most noticeable with inner detail like instrument and vocal textures, as well as the recording space. This is true resolution and not just juiced up treble or a thinner tonality creating a false sense of detail. As a result, I listened for 4 hours in a row yesterday without any fatigue, just a full involvement in the music.

The big downsides to the Mavin are mostly feature-specific and not related to the sound quality. There is a bit of a noise floor, with some minor hiss at the beginning of tracks, and a very faint "electronic" noise when they're on. When music is playing this isn't an issue, however, but they're not as quiet as the MTW or Bose, and probably on par with the Jabras. It's a little bit of a bummer that it doesn't have an app or adjustable EQ (although I don't have need for one in this case), and it doesn't appear the firmware can be updated OTA by the user as a result. However, the sound quality is excellent and the battery life seems to be living up to the billing although I can't test that entirely as I don't have time to let them play for 10 hours straight. Connectivity has also been rock solid, although it sounds like no phones support Qualcomm's TrueWireless Stereo Plus yet, which these can utilize.

I'm trying to temper these impressions so as not to sound overly enthusiastic about the Mavin, but they're pretty spot-on in terms of hitting my personal sweet spot for sound preferences. I don't think these would offer enough bass quantity and slam for hardcore bassheads, and probably not enough excitement for people who like an aggressive V-shaped signature. But for those of us who like a Harman curve-like response, I don't know that you could do better in the TW space, especially when you consider the feature set, battery life and connectivity.

Oh, on a random note: it does annoy me that the LEDs on each earpiece are on the outside so the intermittent blinking is visible to everyone around you while you're wearing them, which feels dorky. The MTW I thought had the best design where they had LEDs facing inside, so they were hidden when wearing them.


----------



## kiwikozo

Mavin advertises the Air-X as having an "extra-bass" speaker, and I'm sure I read many reviews which stated they were bass heavy. 

Did you use different eartips?


----------



## WesennTony

Spamateur said:


> Haven't tried them with AAC yet as my phone defaults to AptX. I'll give it a shot when I have some time and report back.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Great review! They're available now on Amazon. Just ordered a pair to see if they can really rival MW07 in SQ. Even they sound as good as earin M2, for their great batter life I'm happy enough to keep them for long-time listening, like in office or on plane.


----------



## jfvny

The true wireless scene looks to be getting much more interesting with Bose creating sound bubble speaker tech:
https://www.tomsguide.com/us/bose-frames,review-6108.html


----------



## firewatersun

Spamateur said:


> Haven't tried them with AAC yet as my phone defaults to AptX. I'll give it a shot when I have some time and report back.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



This really makes me interested in them, especially with their amazing battery life. I'm really curious how the upcoming Mavin Air-XN, or AirX-NC (I've seen both names) will fare in terms of battery life. If they have the same sound you're describing, they might be perfect airplane earbuds, with some foam tips for passive isolation and ANC for the rest.


----------



## Spamateur (Jan 24, 2019)

kiwikozo said:


> Mavin advertises the Air-X as having an "extra-bass" speaker, and I'm sure I read many reviews which stated they were bass heavy.
> 
> Did you use different eartips?



Nope, just the stock tips so far, although I ordered some Comply foam tips to see how they fit.

Hmmm... I don't find them _extremely_ bass heavy, but it's somewhat song dependent. There's definitely more bass than absolute neutral. I don't find them significantly bassier than the Jabra Elite 65t, but slightly less than the MTW perhaps. Maybe slightly more than the Bose? These will sound very bass-heavy if you're using to something like the DITA The Truth wired IEMs which might be the brightest IEM I've owned.

I just compared them directly to a pair of KZ ATE I keep around for watching movies and using the entertainment systems on long flights. The KZs are bassier, and it's a thicker, tubbier bass hump that comes right up to the mids. The Mavins have a more isolated bass hump that doesn't extend as far into the lower mids, and it's more articulate and tighter. There's more prominent treble on the Mavins, and the mids are more forward.


----------



## korefuji

I would order the mavin air-x but it was a mission to find a link to their website. I did see they are on amazon too, but the item is not in stock yet. I hope they come to europe through some disti, cuz I like the look of them, not visually, they look kinda awkward, but they sound decent, figuratively


----------



## howdy

I got impatient waiting for the Grey Terrazzo and picked a pair of the turtoiseshell today. Still having issues with the right side sealing but I places am order for the Symbio tips to see if they help. Hopefully they do, if not the M2s are really spiking my interest.


----------



## Spamateur

firewatersun said:


> This really makes me interested in them, especially with their amazing battery life. I'm really curious how the upcoming Mavin Air-XN, or AirX-NC (I've seen both names) will fare in terms of battery life. If they have the same sound you're describing, they might be perfect airplane earbuds, with some foam tips for passive isolation and ANC for the rest.



I think you nailed it. I actually buy IEMs with airplane travel specifically in mind. I need halfway decent passive isolation (my ears don't like ANC for some reason) and battery life good enough for a coast-to-coast flight (5 hour minimum or thereabouts). What's crazy to me is how the Air-X all of a sudden blew away the typical 3-4 hour battery life we were used to from all the big-name models on the market. I figured the sound quality wouldn't live up to the billing just because nothing good comes without compromises, but I'm delighted by how much I'm enjoying these.




WesennTony said:


> Great review! They're available now on Amazon. Just ordered a pair to see if they can really rival MW07 in SQ. Even they sound as good as earin M2, for their great batter life I'm happy enough to keep them for long-time listening, like in office or on plane.



Appreciate it! I hope you like them as much as I do and I'm REALLY looking forward to a comparison with the MW07 since that seems to be the consensus best SQ among several folks in this thread. 

But.... I want to temper any expectations with a reminder that my impressions are just the opinion of some rando on the internet who might have wildly different hearing from your own. With that said, if I got this quality of sound in a wired IEM I'd be quite pleased.


----------



## Spamateur

korefuji said:


> I would order the mavin air-x but it was a mission to find a link to their website. I did see they are on amazon too, but the item is not in stock yet. I hope they come to europe through some disti, cuz I like the look of them, not visually, they look kinda awkward, but they sound decent, figuratively



Yeah it wasn't the easiest ordering process which was frustrating. Their website does say they have a holiday sale going on right now that knocks 40 USD off the price (although you end up paying $30 in shipping). Looks like the last shipping day is 1/29 until after a 2-week holiday, which I'm assuming is Chinese New Year.

I do think the feel of the case and earbuds isn't the most premium experience. I bought the blue color and it's a glossy plastic that attracts fingerprints, but the earpieces and case feel sturdy enough to survive drops, and there was no obvious flex when I was swapping out tips and putting on the "sport stabilizers".


----------



## korefuji

Spamateur said:


> Yeah it wasn't the easiest ordering process which was frustrating. Their website does say they have a holiday sale going on right now that knocks 40 USD off the price (although you end up paying $30 in shipping). Looks like the last shipping day is 1/29 until after a 2-week holiday, which I'm assuming is Chinese New Year.
> 
> I do think the feel of the case and earbuds isn't the most premium experience. I bought the blue color and it's a glossy plastic that attracts fingerprints, but the earpieces and case feel sturdy enough to survive drops, and there was no obvious flex when I was swapping out tips and putting on the "sport stabilizers".


Amazon will have them in stock on the 27 of this month. I might just wait, if I'm going to import them, better to do it through amazon i guess


----------



## vechung

This from Qualcomm’s website 

*Premium listening with Qualcomm TrueWireless Stereo Plus*
Qualcomm TrueWireless Stereo Plus is designed to deliver further performance improvements when a QCC5100 based device is used with a mobile phone based on the Qualcomm® Snapdragon™ 845 Mobile Platform. Consumers can enjoy a superior truly wireless listening experience and can benefit from:


Help to reduce power consumption by up to an additional 10 percent, typically helping to deliver an extra hour of listening time before recharge is needed.
More evenly balanced power distribution between both earbuds resulting in longer playback time.
The elimination of cross-head Bluetooth transmission providing improved robustness of the signal to each ear.
Help to reduce latency because there is no primary/secondary role between buds, both are connected directly to the phone and then synchronized.
A simpler pairing experience when connecting the earbuds to the mobile device (because the earbuds are designed to connect as a stereo pair).


----------



## kiwikozo

Spamateur said:


> I think you nailed it. I actually buy IEMs with airplane travel specifically in mind. I need halfway decent passive isolation (my ears don't like ANC for some reason) and battery life good enough for a coast-to-coast flight (5 hour minimum or thereabouts). What's crazy to me is how the Air-X all of a sudden blew away the typical 3-4 hour battery life we were used to from all the big-name models on the market. I figured the sound quality wouldn't live up to the billing just because nothing good comes without compromises, but I'm delighted by how much I'm enjoying these.
> 
> But.... I want to temper any expectations with a reminder that my impressions are just the opinion of some rando on the internet who might have wildly different hearing from your own. With that said, if I got this quality of sound in a wired IEM I'd be quite pleased.




The reason they blow away the typical 3-4 hour battery life is due to the sheer size / bulk of them. They're a great deal thicker than any of the bigger name models, so there is space to fit a much larger battery. Many wouldn't mind this compromise though.


----------



## Spamateur

kiwikozo said:


> The reason they blow away the typical 3-4 hour battery life is due to the sheer size / bulk of them. They're a great deal thicker than any of the bigger name models, so there is space to fit a much larger battery. Many wouldn't mind this compromise though.



Hmmm... I think these are really small by TW IEM standards, at least in my experience, but correct me if I'm wrong. Much smaller than the MTW and about the same size of the Jabra from what I remember. The only one I can think of might be the EARIN M2 but I haven't seen that unit in person. Are there others I'm missing?

Here are some pictures for comparison with other random objects. Keep in mind they have the rubberized sport stabilizers on.


----------



## kiwikozo

Ah I was wrong they have a smaller footprint than I thought. I think the design enables them to fit a much larger battery - do you know the mAh?

They look more comfortable than the MW07 and MTW, I may actually order a pair. What are the touch controls like?


----------



## webvan

WesennTony said:


> Yes, they fit in the case, even better than the sponge. But I'm still unlucky to let the right earbud stay in my ear securely, unless with the fin. I may have to give them up.


Sorry to hear that, well you will have tried everything !

It's unrelated but am I the only one still using the WF-1000x here ? In spite of their shortcomings (battery life, connection issues of the right earbud in "hostile" areas) I keep coming back to them. They just have that deep bass (I've activated the +7 bass setting) that just grabs me !


----------



## clerkpalmer

kiwikozo said:


> Ah I was wrong they have a smaller footprint than I thought. I think the design enables them to fit a much larger battery - do you know the mAh?
> 
> They look more comfortable than the MW07 and MTW, I may actually order a pair. What are the touch controls like?


The review I read says they are large and huge in your ear canal. That stopped me from buying.  I can’t stand large iems. I have no issues with MTW and MW07. Neither are large in your ears.


----------



## Spamateur

kiwikozo said:


> Ah I was wrong they have a smaller footprint than I thought. I think the design enables them to fit a much larger battery - do you know the mAh?
> 
> They look more comfortable than the MW07 and MTW, I may actually order a pair. What are the touch controls like?



The touch controls are... just OK. They're easy to figure out, but they're physical buttons and are a little too hard to press. You end up pushing it the earpiece in your ear a bit. It's a bit harder to push than the Jabra, which I thought had a softer actuation.


----------



## howdy

Does anyone know if the Symbio N fit the MW07?


----------



## RobinFood

Actually the longer battery life probably has to do with bluetooth 5.0.  A lot of TWE with new bluetooth are pushing 10 hours battery life per charge.


----------



## firewatersun (Jan 24, 2019)

howdy said:


> Does anyone know if the Symbio N fit the MW07?



I'm using the Symbio W while waiting for Sony TripleComforts to arrive and they fit great, not sure if the N would fit, Ws fit quite well


Re: Bluetooth 5, I wonder why the MTWs don't have a longer life. Larger drivers?


----------



## chinmie

WesennTony said:


> BTW, I just received the airpods sleeves and tried them on the Sabbat X12 pro. I need to cut a little bit on the bottom to make a perfect fit, but it's an easy job. They add a bit more friction and comfort to me. Still not enough for working out, though.





webvan said:


> Will you still be able to fit them in the case though ? I no longer wear the X12 by tucking them behind the ridge in the back of my ear so I was able to put the spongy "covers" and they really help with comfort, no more contact "harsh" plastic. These are really great if you don't need isolation and are perfect for running or bike riding.



i also use that airpod silicone cover. adds more friction to the ears and slightly warms up the sound by adding a bit midbass, but not to the point making it sound different/bad. also the plus side it can still be used inside the charging case. it also solve the finicky charging with my older sabbat (charging pins become unaligned when i close the case cover, so i have to charge them in open lid position). with the silicone sleeve, now it can charge fine with the lid closed)


----------



## kiwikozo

RobinFood said:


> Actually the longer battery life probably has to do with bluetooth 5.0.  A lot of TWE with new bluetooth are pushing 10 hours battery life per charge.



Didn't think bluetooth 5.0 improved efficiency that much - I only managed 3.5 hours with the MTW, and 4.5 hours with the RHA - both had 5.0


----------



## rhsauer

I have the Mavins, the MTWs and the Sabbat E12 and they are all fantastic.  This new batch of true wireless earphones represents a signficant leap forward from last year’s offerings (the Jabra, the Bose, the E8).   

The MTWs are probably my favorites, sound wise — but not by much (and not by 2-3x, which is the cost differential).  Their sound is engaging and full, the dual microphones seem very good for outgoing sound on calls, and I haven’t had the microphone issue others have noted (which will apparently be fixed in an upcoming firmware update anyway).  They also have a transparency feature, which is useful.  I also like the touch controls, which makes it relatively easy to switch paired devices.  The four hour battery life is a bummer, however.  I haven’t yet suffered from the battery drain issue that others have complained about — but I tend to plug in the case when not in use.

The Sabbat’s have an amazingly full sound and a really terrific lower end.  It’s a really fun sound.  Their literature says that Sabbat tried to replicate the Sennheiser sound curve, and I think they did a very good job of that.  They’re not quite as detailed as the MTWs, but their ridiculously good bass makes them more fun to listen to at times (particularly in loud environments like the NYC subway).  They also have four microphones (like the Jabra) for great outgoing call clarity.  The only downside I’ve experienced with the Sabbats is an occasional right or left dropout while walking around NYC streets.  That’s a bummer, because if the connection was more reliable the Sabbat’s might be my favorite of the three models.  They also purport to have a six to eight hour battery life, which is terrific.  My understanding is that these are using a new Realtek chipset that gets battery life almost comparable to the QCC3026.  I haven’t had time to confirm the battery life, but based on partial usage it seems about right.  (For those who haven’t noticed the Sabbat E12’s, they look almost exactly like the X12’s, but with a silicone tip rather than a hard Air Pod like tip that the X12’s have.). The Sabbats are also the most comfortable of the bunch — I have honestly forgotten they were in my ears.

The Mavin’s also have terrific sound, albeit a very different sound signature than the Sabbats — more detail, less (but good) bass — generally, a more neutral and accurate sound than the Sabbats, but perhaps not as fun.  Their microphones seems fine, but I haven’t had an opportunity to use these much for calls.  My understanding is that the Mavins have another dual mic setup with the advanced noise cancelling provided by the QCC3026 chip.  The connectivity and range are both terrific.  (Both the MTW and the Mavin are Class 1 Bluetooth devices, so they get up to 3x the range of most Bluetooth headphones, which are Class 2.). I don’t think I’ve had a single drop-out with these.  The purported battery life is, of course, crazy, stupid — 10 hours, with another 40 hours in the case.  It’s a paradigm changer, and I’d be comfortable bringing them along on a several day trip without worrying about a charging cable.  (For some reason, the Mavin’s still use micro USB, while the others are USB-C — but I’m not sure I care too much about that.)

Oh, I also bought the Mpow T5’s, another new earphone that uses the QCC3026 SOC.  They have a purported seven hour battery life, and they sound pretty darn good for a $60 earphone — but they don’t quite compete, sound wise, with the three other models above.  I’ve also had some connection dropouts with the T5’s — not many, but enough to annoy.  They’re also IPX7, so I’ve actually worn them in the shower, which is fun.  (The others are all IPX4 or IPX5, I think.)

One general frustration with all these earphones is the loss of multipoint connectivity — so, several steps forward and at least one step back in that regard.  Only the MTW’s make it relatively easy to switch input devices (from my iPhone to a Mac, for example) while using them.  I wish all Bluetooth earphones used an app like Bose’s that makes switching input devices easy.  I also had to do a lot of tip-rolling with each of these ‘phones to get the right fit, because I apparently have freakishly large ears.  Only the T5’s had a case that didn’t permit larger tips — which is a design choice that really annoys me.

In summary, it feels to me like truly wireless earphones have turned a corner this year, with better sound, better battery life, better mics — and there are several decent options (and probably more to come).  There are still a few rough edges, but maybe those edges will be smoothed over by CES 2020.


----------



## turbobb

rhsauer said:


> I wish all Bluetooth earphones used an app like Bose’s that makes switching input devices easy.


 Just to clarify you mean hitting the single button on left-ear piece and not by using an app right? If so, I absolutely agree, other than ones that have multipoint (which limits it to two devices max), with the Bose and the left button, you can easily cycle through the seven remembered devices.


----------



## jfvny

rhsauer said:


> The Sabbat’s have an amazingly full sound and a really terrific lower end.  It’s a really fun sound.  Their literature says that Sabbat tried to replicate the Sennheiser sound curve, and I think they did a very good job of that.  They’re not quite as detailed as the MTWs, but their ridiculously good bass makes them more fun to listen to at times (particularly in loud environments like the NYC subway).  They also have four microphones (like the Jabra) for great outgoing call clarity.  The only downside I’ve experienced with the Sabbats is an occasional right or left dropout while walking around NYC streets.  That’s a bummer, because if the connection was more reliable the Sabbat’s might be my favorite of the three models.  They also purport to have a six to eight hour battery life, which is terrific.  My understanding is that these are using a new Realtek chipset that gets battery life almost comparable to the QCC3026.  I haven’t had time to confirm the battery life, but based on partial usage it seems about right.  (For those who haven’t noticed the Sabbat E12’s, they look almost exactly like the X12’s, but with a silicone tip rather than a hard Air Pod like tip that the X12’s have.). The Sabbats are also the most comfortable of the bunch — I have honestly forgotten they were in my ears.



It's been so hard to find reviews of the E12 so thank you so much for this!


----------



## turbobb

clerkpalmer said:


> The Audio Technica sports have finally dropped.  I'm going in


 Would love to hear your impressions of them vs. MW07.


----------



## rhsauer

turbobb said:


> Just to clarify you mean hitting the single button on left-ear piece and not by using an app right? If so, I absolutely agree, other than ones that have multipoint (which limits it to two devices max), with the Bose and the left button, you can easily cycle through the seven remembered devices.


If I recall correctly, the Bose QC35 app gives you an easy way to specify what paired device you wanted to connect to, which I thought was very handy.  There may also be a way to cycle through paired devices using a button on the headphones, but I don't think I've ever used that.


----------



## leetl90

@*rhsauer*
Great comparison. I've personally managed to test the MTW and the Sabbat E12 and they sound amazing.
Would you be able to comment on the audio-video delay on those 3 models? For both videos and games, if you are able to. Cheers


----------



## mikp

some size comparison with the mavins. As mentioned they may miss the premium feel like some of the big names, but the sound is good. I did not expect much from them, that why I probably was more surprised. Other thing is support seems very random with mavins, after a few questions they did upgrade their manual and send it to me.

What I miss is some ambient feature, so use the 65t when thats needed.


----------



## webvan

Thanks for the pictures, it seems you managed to find alternate tips for the 65t's?

@rhsauer - good to hear the E12 perform well. What kind of isolation do they provide? The X12 are unique in that they are open and are ideal for running as they avoid the dreaded "thumping" and don't need a transparency mode  

I might try the Airpod sleeves then, will have to track down the AliExpress link that was given in early January.


----------



## rhsauer (Jan 25, 2019)

leetl90 said:


> @*rhsauer*
> Great comparison. I've personally managed to test the MTW and the Sabbat E12 and they sound amazing.
> Would you be able to comment on the audio-video delay on those 3 models? For both videos and games, if you are able to. Cheers


I can't comment on gaming latency because I'm not a gamer, but I have used all three models to listen to television using Roku's "Private Listening" function (via my iPhone) and I can say that all three had very little noticeable latency.  (My Jabra 65T's were considerably worse when I tried the same thing a few months ago, but I don't know if there have been any firmware updates to the Jabras or the Roku TV that may have helped with latency.)  The MTW's have aptx low latency, but iPhone doesn't support that -- so this is just WiFi from the television to the iPhone and AAC from the iPhone to the earphones.  (All of these 'phones support AAC.)


----------



## rhsauer (Jan 25, 2019)

webvan said:


> @rhsauer - good to hear the E12 perform well. What kind of isolation do they provide? The X12 are unique in that they are open and are ideal for running as they avoid the dreaded "thumping" and don't need a transparency mode



I switched the tips on the E12's to the largest SpinFit tips.  With those, the isolation is pretty good.  They're not a deep insertion type earphone, so they don't seem to provide quite as much isolation as other earphones.  (On the other hand, their relatively shallow insertion is one reason they are extraordinary comfortable.)  I'm not sure they provide enough isolation to rely on them for a long plane trip, but they're perfectly fine for a morning commute on the NY subway.  I've tried the X12's (for ten minutes -- they didn't really fit me), and the E12's provide better isolation, for me at least.


----------



## webvan

ok and yes that would be normal as the X12 provide zero isolation by design which is great for running  I'm not sure I'm reading your previous answer correctly but the X12 don't support AAC so I don't think the E12 would either. As another side note I happened to use my 65T with my iPad this morning while watching YouTube and there was very little delay (still a tad noticeable like any other BT I've used) so FW updates must have improved on what you saw in the past.


----------



## rhsauer (Jan 25, 2019)

webvan said:


> ok and yes that would be normal as the X12 provide zero isolation by design which is great for running  I'm not sure I'm reading your previous answer correctly but the X12 don't support AAC so I don't think the E12 would either. As another side note I happened to use my 65T with my iPad this morning while watching YouTube and there was very little delay (still a tad noticeable like any other BT I've used) so FW updates must have improved on what you saw in the past.


The Sabbat E12 do connect to my iMac via AAC.  See attached screenshot.  They don’t seem to publicize this (on the Amazon page, at least).


----------



## Rickyearl (Jan 25, 2019)

Spamateur said:


> The touch controls are... just OK. They're easy to figure out, but they're physical buttons and are a little too hard to press. You end up pushing it the earpiece in your ear a bit. It's a bit harder to push than the Jabra, which I thought had a softer actuation.



The Liberty Lites have that same setup.  There is something satisfying about the physical button presses - you know it was pressed the right number of times.  But you do have to press harder than a "touch surface."  So putting them in the same place as the touch surface seems poorly thought out.

So I just listened to the new Ankers - the "Libery Air" - the ones that look almost as silly as the Airpods.  Based on that alone I had a hard time not hating them off the bat.  

After a 45-minute listen I can say definitively that the cheaper (and IMHO, much better looking) Liberty Lites sound MUCH better.  Better detail and clarity, less "enhanced" high-end sibilance, tighter bass - just better sound all around.  

I think that in the sub-$100 market (and they occasionally go for under $50), the Liberty Lites are hard to beat.


----------



## Spamateur

Rickyearl said:


> The Liberty Lites have that same setup.  There is something satisfying about the physical button presses - you know it was pressed the right number of times.  But you do have to press harder than a "touch surface."  So putting them in the same place as the touch surface seems poorly thought out.



Yeah I prefer physical buttons to the capacitive touch buttons on the MTW, which I accidentally pressed all the time just taking them out of their damn case. I thought the Bose had the best placement with the buttons along the edge, although those were waaaaay too stiff to actuate due to the waterproofing rubber layer. I think the Jabras had the best overall with the buttons still being on the face of each earpiece, but the button being much easier to press and the left button being on a rocker.


----------



## webvan

rhsauer said:


> The Sabbat E12 do connect to my iMac via AAC.  See attached screenshot.  They don’t seem to publicize this (on the Amazon page, at least).


Interesting, am I confusing them with my Havit G1...ah yes, sorry my bad, the X12 do connect using AAC to my Nokia 9 running Pie.


----------



## kiwikozo

I think I'm expecting too much from TW earphones at the moment. I'm not expecting the experience which an exceptional pair of headphones or setup can provide at home. I want a TW that performs like the SE425, AKG N40..... 

Since I spend at least 90 minutes of my day in a gym - longer than I would at home listening to music, I want to really polish up my listening experience.

I've been spoiled by headphones such as the PM-2, HD800, Fidelio X2.......

Maybe the answer would be planar magnetic TW earphones - RHA are you listening? 
Maybe we will see a great advancement in the next high-end releases from Sennheiser, M&D, Earin later this year or early next.

I should* stop following this thread and be happy with the Earin M2 + cp100 and check back in 6 months. That won't happen though. What is wrong with me?!?


----------



## Ocelitgol

https://www.theverge.com/2019/1/25/...arphones-modular-price-release-date-namm-2019

this seems promising


----------



## joshnor713

kiwikozo said:


> Maybe the answer would be planar magnetic TW earphones - RHA are you listening?



I imagine the DAC is more the bottleneck than the driver. It's gonna be a while until we have a DAC this small that can pump out the clear, detailed sound we'd expect from dedicated units.


----------



## clerkpalmer

kiwikozo said:


> I think I'm expecting too much from TW earphones at the moment. I'm not expecting the experience which an exceptional pair of headphones or setup can provide at home. I want a TW that performs like the SE425, AKG N40.....
> 
> Since I spend at least 90 minutes of my day in a gym - longer than I would at home listening to music, I want to really polish up my listening experience.
> 
> ...



If you want high fidelity at the gym, perhaps consider pairing your wired headphones with an Earstudio ES100.  I recently picked up a Brainwavz B400 and pair it with an ES100.  I thought I "needed" a decent wired IEM from to time.  Interestingly , while the B400 is very nice, I think I prefer the MW07.


----------



## howdy

Anyone with the Earin M2s use there's at the gym and if so do they stay in if you sweet bad? Im tired of my Jaybird Runs for gym use.


----------



## Rickyearl (Jan 25, 2019)

howdy said:


> Anyone with the Earin M2s use there's at the gym and if so do they stay in if you sweet bad? Im tired of my Jaybird Runs for gym use.



I use them at the gym.  As far as fit, they are crazy light and unnoticeable, but since they fit kind of straight on occasionally one will fall out.  This doesn't happen with the stock complys, but does with the Spinfits.  To me the stock complys are a little dark and bassy. So if you like bass they'd be ideal.

As far as sweat goes, they have gotten sweated on to the point that they are wet, but not like under a faucet or anything.


----------



## kiwikozo

clerkpalmer said:


> If you want high fidelity at the gym, perhaps consider pairing your wired headphones with an Earstudio ES100.  I recently picked up a Brainwavz B400 and pair it with an ES100.  I thought I "needed" a decent wired IEM from to time.  Interestingly , while the B400 is very nice, I think I prefer the MW07.



I just can't go back to using cables at the gym, they are especially annoying when any sort of machine is involved.



howdy said:


> Anyone with the Earin M2s use there's at the gym and if so do they stay in if you sweet bad? Im tired of my Jaybird Runs for gym use.



M2s are perfect for the gym, they are supremely comfortable - by far the most comfortable buds since it's just the earbud. 

I pair them with the spinfit cp100 medium, they don't fall out even when running. Fit was great with the comply tips provided, but the cp100 tips really transform the sound (highly recommend).

I don't think I could get them to fall out even if I tried



joshnor713 said:


> I imagine the DAC is more the bottleneck than the driver. It's gonna be a while until we have a DAC this small that can pump out the clear, detailed sound we'd expect from dedicated units.



I'm not too sure, maybe future flagship smartphones will bring these enhancements like LG V30s Quad DAC - this only works with wired headphones.


----------



## kiwikozo

Rickyearl said:


> I use them at the gym.  As far as fit, they are crazy light and unnoticeable, but since they fit kind of straight on occasionally one will fall out.  This doesn't happen with the stock complys, but does with the Spinfits.  So if you like bass they'd be ideal.
> 
> As far as sweat goes, they have gotten sweated on to the point that they are wet, but not like under a faucet or anything.



My ear canal must be a dogey shape!


----------



## Rickyearl

kiwikozo said:


> My ear canal must be a dogey shape!


I think it's mine.  I could never get the E8s to fit right either - if I hold my ears in my hands and tilt them just right, the E8s sound great - fantastic even.  But I let go and back to the anemic sound.

With the Spinfit CP100zs in medium, the L one tends to slowly work its way out if over time.  Doesn't happen with the same size Spinfits on the MTW - I think the MTW's wider, more rounded shape helps there.

Perhaps a size smaller Spinfit on the L side would work better, but that's too much trouble.  I just have to press the M2 back in every once in a while.


----------



## hifi80sman (Jan 26, 2019)

If anyone is interested, found some rebranded Mifo O5 (assuming they are the standard version):
https://www.amazon.com/Halfsun-Wireless-Bluetooth-Stereo-Earbuds/dp/B07MBFRPDM

They’re $59 and the cheapest I’ve found the Mifo O5 so far (on Amazon).  I ordered a pair and they’re arriving tomorrow.  Interested to see how they compare to the big boys.

EDIT:  Seller just confirmed they are the balanced armature version.


----------



## joshnor713

kiwikozo said:


> I'm not too sure, maybe future flagship smartphones will bring these enhancements like LG V30s Quad DAC - this only works with wired headphones.



In wireless headphones, the DAC is in the headphones.


----------



## Rickyearl

My MW07s arrive today.  Are the fans on here using stock tips or something else?  If so, what and in what size?

Thanks


----------



## albau

Rickyearl said:


> My MW07s arrive today.  Are the fans on here using stock tips or something else?  If so, what and in what size?
> 
> Thanks


I use large stock fins with  SpinFits cp100z-l as the only tips that securely fit my ears and with great isolation. But shape of ears is such and individual thing that I doubt that any advise by somebody else will be helpful for you.


----------



## Dellsson

Someone said on YouTube that the max volume on MW07 was to low, I don't know why but I did raise the volume above my usually 60% and a few days later I am deaf on my right side. Coincidence? I don't know, this is wired tho. The max volume is high enough


----------



## Rickyearl

albau said:


> I use large stock fins with  SpinFits cp100z-l as the only tips that securely fit my ears and with great isolation. But shape of ears is such and individual thing that I doubt that any advise by somebody else will be helpful for you.


 
By "size" I meant the cylinder diameter.  So the CP100z seem to fit all the TW I own at this point.


----------



## albau

Dellsson said:


> Someone said on YouTube that the max volume on MW07 was to low, I don't know why but I did raise the volume above my usually 60% and a few days later I am deaf on my right side. Coincidence? I don't know, this is wired tho. The max volume is high enough


Dunno where it comes from. Out of Galaxy S9+ (and S8 before that) my MW07 go at least as loud as my 65t. In a noisy gym never felt like running both at more than 60% volume.


----------



## Rickyearl (Jan 25, 2019)

hifi80sman said:


> If anyone is interested, found some rebranded Mifo O5 (assuming they are the standard version):
> https://www.amazon.com/Halfsun-Wireless-Bluetooth-Stereo-Earbuds/dp/B07MBFRPDM
> 
> They’re $59 and the cheapest I’ve found the Mifo O5 so far (on Amazon).  I ordered a pair and they’re arriving tomorrow.  Interested to see how they compare to the big boys.



You should try the Liberty Lites.

Oh, Master and Dynamic's instagram has pics of the 4 "colorways" of the Louis Vuitton rebadges.

https://www.instagram.com/masterdynamic/


----------



## hifi80sman

Rickyearl said:


> You should try the Liberty Lites.
> 
> Oh, Master and Dynamic's instagram has pics of the 4 "colorways" of the Louis Vuitton rebadges.
> 
> https://www.instagram.com/masterdynamic/


I’ve been meaning to give the Liberty Lites a try, but I’m on a bit of a Chi-Fi exploratory binge.  I already had the standard Liberty version, which was good, so that also dampens my curiousity a bit.  

At least now we know M&D worked with LV and they weren’t a straight ODM/OEM re-brand.  I feel better now.


----------



## KarimLeVallois

Rickyearl said:


> My MW07s arrive today.  Are the fans on here using stock tips or something else?  If so, what and in what size?
> 
> Thanks



I’m using stock tips (XL) with the large fins. Really securely held in my ears to be honest, perfect for me.


----------



## jeffri

stormers said:


> https://www.theverge.com/2019/1/25/...arphones-modular-price-release-date-namm-2019
> 
> this seems promising



Oh, this is interesting. Finally something that challenge the TRN one. Looks like the modular part can be fit with 2-pin too. I hope they sell the module separately though.


----------



## Spamateur

Quick update on Mavin Air-X battery life:

I've been listening to the Air-X for the last 3 hours and 15 min at about 40% volume. Streaming CD-quality from Tidal via AptX from my phone. Battery indicator currently shows 68% and was fully charged when I started. Not bad... looks like they're living up to the billing so far.


----------



## kiwikozo

joshnor713 said:


> In wireless headphones, the DAC is in the headphones.



With bluetooth 5.0 wouldn't it now be possible for wireless headphones to use a phone DAC?


----------



## Ocelitgol

jeffri said:


> Oh, this is interesting. Finally something that challenge the TRN one. Looks like the modular part can be fit with 2-pin too. I hope they sell the module separately though.



I doubt it. Depends on how good the modules are, I might just purchase the whole thing just for the modules themselves 

TRN BT20 is good but hiss too much on SE846 and extremely limited control...



Spamateur said:


> Quick update on Mavin Air-X battery life:
> 
> I've been listening to the Air-X for the last 3 hours and 15 min at about 40% volume. Streaming CD-quality from Tidal via AptX from my phone. Battery indicator currently shows 68% and was fully charged when I started. Not bad... looks like they're living up to the billing so far.


Mine last approximately 7-8hrs per charge


----------



## hifi80sman

kiwikozo said:


> With bluetooth 5.0 wouldn't it now be possible for wireless headphones to use a phone DAC?


The Digital to Analog Converter (DAC) will always be in the wireless headphone/earbuds hardware itself.  If you’re talking about DSP (Digital Signal Processing) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_signal_processing, that’s another story.


----------



## albau

kiwikozo said:


> With bluetooth 5.0 wouldn't it now be possible for wireless headphones to use a phone DAC?


Only if wired. Something still needs to decode discrete OTA stream into analog audible waves emitted by the driver inside the buds.


----------



## kiwikozo

Ah thanks, makes sense since the digital conversion happens inside of the wireless earphone and the quality over Bluetooth will not exceed the lossy transmission standard. 

This must be why the more expensive TW buds generally sound better because of more costly DACs.


----------



## hifi80sman

kiwikozo said:


> Ah thanks, makes sense since the digital conversion happens inside of the wireless earphone and the quality over Bluetooth will not exceed the lossy transmission standard.
> 
> This must be why the more expensive TW buds generally sound better because of more costly DACs.


Exactly.  That’s why many people here try to find out what chipset a particular TWE uses.

For example, from what I see, many upper-tier Chi-Fi units use the Realtek RT8763B in lieu of more costly Qualcomm chipsets.  As you can see in the product description, it’s quite solid and a SoC solution.


----------



## Edward Ng

Okay, so based on feedback in this thread, I went ahead and ordered a pair of SpinFit CP100Z tips in medium size, and boy am I glad I did! The SpinFit tips feel much more comfortable than the stock ones, and provide slightly improved isolation. I decided it was still not as much isolation as I desired, so I went ahead and filled them with the cored out Comply foams that I was stuffing the stock tips with for better isolation and now it’s perfect!







-Ed


----------



## Rickyearl (Jan 25, 2019)

Just got my MW07.  How do I make the lights work on the case?  I thought it might be dead so I charged it for 30 min but still no lights. The MW07s seem to work fine but how can I tell if they are charging?


----------



## Edward Ng

And now after more testing, I’ve decided that the minuscule increase in isolation is not worth the cost in reduction in comfort, of using the Comply foam inside the SpinFit tips, so I’ve taken the foam back out and am sticking to just using the CP100Z tips as they are. They’re so good that I’m considering them for my Westone 4s, too.

-Ed


----------



## indigo

Edward Ng said:


> And now after more testing, I’ve decided that the minuscule increase in isolation is not worth the cost in reduction in comfort, of using the Comply foam inside the SpinFit tips, so I’ve taken the foam back out and am sticking to just using the CP100Z tips as they are. They’re so good that I’m considering them for my Westone 4s, too.
> 
> -Ed



Long time lurker. Got my MTWs a few weeks back, thinking of getting the CP100Zs. What’s your size in the normal stock tips?


----------



## hifi80sman

Rickyearl said:


> Just got my MW07.  How do I make the lights work on the case?  I thought it might be dead so I charged it for 30 min but still no lights. The MW07s seem to work fine but how can I tell if they are charging?


Stupid question, but did you remove the plastic covers on the earbuds and case?


----------



## Edward Ng

indigo said:


> Long time lurker. Got my MTWs a few weeks back, thinking of getting the CP100Zs. What’s your size in the normal stock tips?


Medium stock and medium SpinFits.

-Ed


----------



## hifi80sman

Re-branded Sabbat E12 for $69.  Damn, tempting!

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07MCGFK73


----------



## howdy

I hope to get my Symbio tips soon to try with the new MW07. I hope they work to get a good seal.


----------



## KarimLeVallois

hifi80sman said:


> Stupid question, but did you remove the plastic covers on the earbuds and case?



I’m going to be honest here, this caught me out too! lol


----------



## Rickyearl

hifi80sman said:


> Stupid question, but did you remove the plastic covers on the earbuds and case?



I mean, I think so.  I can’t find any plastic bits like on the MTW.  Case seems to be charging them, just no lights.  No lights when charging case alone or with them inside.  Lights on the MW07 themselves come on when you lift them out of the case.


----------



## Rickyearl

indigo said:


> Long time lurker. Got my MTWs a few weeks back, thinking of getting the CP100Zs. What’s your size in the normal stock tips?





Edward Ng said:


> Medium stock and medium SpinFits.
> 
> -Ed


Same.  Could possibly use small on the left side but that’s consistent with stock and Spinfit (and the Trinity Kombi I found in a drawer).


----------



## turbobb (Jan 26, 2019)

MW07 - quite good but not multiples of $$$$ good (there I said it ) - this is especially after testing a whole bunch of other other TWEs lately. Having a bit of problem with getting a good seal on left ear without a lot of fiddling but going to do some rolling later. Just one thing for owners, anyone have a case with sharp edges right at the front lift point on the lid? On mine, it's not fully deburred/sanded so feels like a jagged blade...    Ironically, that precise spot is the only place where it's not fully sanded, the other edges around the lid and case are nice and smooth.


----------



## hifi80sman (Jan 26, 2019)

turbobb said:


> MW07 - quite good but not multiples of $$$$ good (there I said it ) - this is especially after testing a whole bunch of other other TWEs lately. Having a bit of problem with getting a good seal on left ear without a lot of fiddling but going to do some rolling later. Just one thing for owners, anyone have a case with sharp edges right at the front lift point on the lid? On mine, it's not fully deburred/sanded so feels like a jagged blade...    Ironically, that precise spot is the only place where it's not fully sanded, the other edges around the lid and case are nice and smooth.


I didn’t notice it before, but yes, it’s not perfectly sanded at the front lip area.  If you look at it in a well-lit environment, you can see where it’s not smooth.

As far as fit, they don’t seem to create a suction-like seal based on the way they’re angled.  However, this creates less fatigue and is more comfortable to wear long-term.

I confirmed with the seller that the Mifo O5 re-brand I ordered is actually the BA version, so I guess it’s more accurately a re-brand of the Mifo O5 Pro.  Going to fire those up later and see how they compare with the MW07.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07MBFRPDM/

EDIT:  Looks like the AliExpress listing shows it as a dynamic driver.  Who effing knows at this point.
https://m.aliexpress.com/item/32950...Earbuds-Waterproof-IPX7-Stereo-HIFI-20M-range


----------



## howdy

turbobb said:


> MW07 - quite good but not multiples of $$$$ good (there I said it ) - this is especially after testing a whole bunch of other other TWEs lately. Having a bit of problem with getting a good seal on left ear without a lot of fiddling but going to do some rolling later. Just one thing for owners, anyone have a case with sharp edges right at the front lift point on the lid? On mine, it's not fully deburred/sanded so feels like a jagged blade...    Ironically, that precise spot is the only place where it's not fully sanded, the other edges around the lid and case are nice and smooth.


I have issues getting a good seal on the right ear. I however do think they sound awesome but only when I get a good seal. I have some Symbio tips in route and I may try some Comply before returning if it comes to that which I hope not.


----------



## MulberryMadness

hifi80sman said:


> Exactly.  That’s why many people here try to find out what chipset a particular TWE uses.
> 
> For example, from what I see, many upper-tier Chi-Fi units use the Realtek RT8763B in lieu of more costly Qualcomm chipsets.  As you can see in the product description, it’s quite solid and a SoC solution.


 Just about any SoC is going to be 'solid' by that definition, I do see for the Realtec integrated 5 band EQ?

think it is a non-sequitur to imply DAC or particular chip used is the major factor in SQ. In any playback system, the whole of the system determines SQ. 'more costly Qualcomm chipsets' to which I say, you are aware that the supposed qcc3026 in the $129 Mavin Air-X is an as Qualcomm puts it 'entry level' chipset, which costs exactly how much to buy? qcc5100 series is marketed by Qualcomm as their 'premium' SoC solution, with integrated hybrid ANC. One link showed iMore ENC earbuds which supposedly have the qcc5121 Soc, via indiego to ship June 

Someone @Qualcomm needs to define/correct why they claim True Wireless Plus with the qcc3026, as their website charts show that chipset has *mono audio playback* support, so it would make more sense that the qcc 3024 & 3034(which is also listed as the only 30xx series to support aptxHD) as listed for stereo playback, would have this wireless plus enabled.

https://www.qualcomm.com/products/qcc3026  "
General Audio

Audio Technology: Qualcomm® Broadcast Audio technology, Qualcomm TrueWireless™ Stereo technology, Qualcomm TrueWireless™ Stereo Plus technology, Qualcomm® aptX™ audio technology, Qualcomm® cVc™ audio technology

Qualcomm® aptX™ playback support: aptX Classic

Audio Playback Support: *Mono playback*

Qualcomm® cVc™ audio technology: Up to 2-mic HS cVc

"

Given Apple's iPhone typically is est to cost ~$300 for Apple to produce, what would an SoC cost as far as low-volume earbuds, let us say a manufacturer just wants to buy 500+? For the premium market qcc5121...would $6 surprise? So how does price factor in SQ on these, given Qualcomm states for the qcc5100 series a 'high-quality DAC' ...hope that isn't the same 'solid' as the cheap wired Chi-Fi for $<50 that state "studio quality" < which means pretty much nothing. They all have a DAC, but what are the parameters that would define a quality/audiophile's dream DAC...same specs as a Mojo Cord?

 no stock available, from a listing likely almost 9+mo old, so have to expect price is likely lower once production ramps up, though since the qcc5100 was announced earlier 2018, with expected ship date spring/summer 2018...well : https://www.arrow.com/en/products/qcc-5121-0-81wlnsp-sr-00-0/qualcomm

All qcc5100 implementations support True Wireless Plus, it's Qualcomm's premium audio Soc, this is what most here on HF are waiting/wanting. @$6/ea for qcc5121, I dont' think the audio Soc is going to have a major cost factor in high-end/expensive TWE or less expensive 'Chi-Fi', unless you define Chi-Fi as alwasy <$100.


----------



## Rickyearl (Jan 26, 2019)

turbobb said:


> Just one thing for owners, anyone have a case with sharp edges right at the front lift point on the lid? On mine, it's not fully deburred/sanded so feels like a jagged blade...    Ironically, that precise spot is the only place where it's not fully sanded, the other edges around the lid and case are nice and smooth.





hifi80sman said:


> I didn’t notice it before, but yes, it’s not perfectly sanded at the front lip area.  If you look at it in a well-lit environment, you can see where it’s not smooth.



I don’t see that but this is odd.  On the straight side of the terrazo part I can see the edge of the metal piece rhat the acetate was molded over very clearly. Like the acetate didn’t completely cover it. It’s uniform so I guess it’s on purpose, but the black ones I am borrowing (for the case) don’t have that and the press release pics don’t either. See the pic. Anybody with the non-black have this same thing?




hifi80sman said:


> As far as fit, they don’t seem to create a suction-like seal based on the way they’re angled.  However, this creates less fatigue and is more comfortable to wear long-term.



100% agree.  I recalled that they were comfortable last time and they are.  You can almost forget they’re on.  They don’t really seal at all and it’s less noticeable and less fatiguing.


----------



## hifi80sman (Jan 26, 2019)

I would exchange.  I don’t think that’s the intended effect.  The metal on my Tortoiseshell version is covered nicely by the acetate.


----------



## howdy

My turtoiseshell is completely covered as well. Seems smooth transitionaly around the edges.


----------



## mikp

MulberryMadness said:


> Just about any SoC is going to be 'solid' by that definition, I do see for the Realtec integrated 5 band EQ?
> 
> think it is a non-sequitur to imply DAC or particular chip used is the major factor in SQ. In any playback system, the whole of the system determines SQ. 'more costly Qualcomm chipsets' to which I say, you are aware that the supposed qcc3026 in the $129 Mavin Air-X is an as Qualcomm puts it 'entry level' chipset, which costs exactly how much to buy? qcc5100 series is marketed by Qualcomm as their 'premium' SoC solution, with integrated hybrid ANC. One link showed iMore ENC earbuds which supposedly have the qcc5121 Soc, via indiego to ship June
> 
> ...




3026 support tws +, but no phones support it. It needs a qualcomm patch that they have not released to android.


----------



## howdy

Another question for the M2 users, do you experience drop outs at the gym, especially when a lot of people are there?
These seem like the best ones for the gym but hard to say. It's between the M2s, Bose soundsport and Jabra Elite Sport.


----------



## chinmie

howdy said:


> Another question for the M2 users, do you experience drop outs at the gym, especially when a lot of people are there?
> These seem like the best ones for the gym but hard to say. It's between the M2s, Bose soundsport and Jabra Elite Sport.



haven't use the M2 in the gym, besides i workout in a local gym that never gets crowded. but i did test both the M2 and Jabra in the mall. the M2 has a more stable connection as i never had any dropouts in that scenario, while the Jabra 65t (which is no slouch in connection stability also) sometimes experienced crackling on the left side when passing certain places. size wise, the M2 is much more comfortable for walking and running, but the Jabra has a better water resistance. nowadays i go with the Mifo o5 for sports because the waterproofing


----------



## keeya

So I got my pair Senn MTW.. there is one very important bit of information missing from the manual.  
How do you turn these things off?


----------



## howdy

chinmie said:


> haven't use the M2 in the gym, besides i workout in a local gym that never gets crowded. but i did test both the M2 and Jabra in the mall. the M2 has a more stable connection as i never had any dropouts in that scenario, while the Jabra 65t (which is no slouch in connection stability also) sometimes experienced crackling on the left side when passing certain places. size wise, the M2 is much more comfortable for walking and running, but the Jabra has a better water resistance. nowadays i go with the Mifo o5 for sports because the waterproofing


So it seems the M2 do a great job in crowded places. My Jaybird Runs suck at the gym as they are constantly cutting out but they sound great for gym use. I'm really leaning yards towards the M2 as they check all boxes but connectivity is a huge concern for me at the gym. There is nothing worse than getting mentally into your workout and dealing with constant dropouts.


----------



## howdy

keeya said:


> So I got my pair Senn MTW.. there is one very important bit of information missing from the manual.
> How do you turn these things off?


I just put them back in the case as they go into standby.


----------



## keeya

howdy said:


> I just put them back in the case as they go into standby.



That works unless you don't have your case with you.. sometimes you just go out with them for the day and don't take the case with you.


----------



## Rickyearl

hifi80sman said:


> I would exchange.  I don’t think that’s the intended effect.  The metal on my Tortoiseshell version is covered nicely by the acetate.





howdy said:


> My turtoiseshell is completely covered as well. Seems smooth transitionaly around the edges.



I saw several reviews both ways.  There’s a review from Digital Trends that is exactly like mine.



Same for engadget:
https://www.engadget.com/2018/09/13/master-and-dynamic-mw07-review-true-wireless-earbuds/#


----------



## Rickyearl

howdy said:


> Another question for the M2 users, do you experience drop outs at the gym, especially when a lot of people are there?
> These seem like the best ones for the gym but hard to say. It's between the M2s, Bose soundsport and Jabra Elite Sport.



Use my M2 in a crowded gym and never had a dropout.  Then again, other than obvious places (grocery store sliding doors come to mind) I don’t recall having dropouts with any of my TW.


----------



## howdy

Rickyearl said:


> I saw several reviews both ways.  There’s a review from Digital Trends that is exactly like mine.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Is it just a issue with the Grey Terrazzo?


----------



## howdy

Rickyearl said:


> Use my M2 in a crowded gym and never had a dropout.  Then again, other than obvious places (grocery store sliding doors come to mind) I don’t recall having dropouts with any of my TW.


Thats awesome. Have you had these for awhile and if so what are some of your cons or nit pics if any. There are a lot of pros ive read.


----------



## kiwikozo (Jan 26, 2019)

howdy said:


> Another question for the M2 users, do you experience drop outs at the gym, especially when a lot of people are there?
> These seem like the best ones for the gym but hard to say. It's between the M2s, Bose soundsport and Jabra Elite Sport.



I haven't had any connection issues with the M2 at the gym. Have used them every day the past 3 weeks. Just make sure you insert them correctly and not facing inwards. Initially, I made that mistake a couple of times and the earbuds didn't pair.

Really don't have any negatives - be sure to get the spinfit cp100 as they really improve the soundstage, clarity,  and tighten up the bass over the comply ones provided. The M2 are super sensitive to the type of earbuds you pair them with.

If you want longer than 3.5 hours battery then that could be negative, but they charge quickly. Updating the firmware takes a while - 30 minutes at times but this isn't something you'd have to do regularly.


----------



## Rickyearl

howdy said:


> Thats awesome. Have you had these for awhile and if so what are some of your cons or nit pics if any. There are a lot of pros ive read.



About 2 weeks. The biggest two problems are (1) that sometimes they don’t pair with each other and I only get sound out of one ear.  It’s weird - I can push the touch surface and switch back and forth, but have to put one back in the case for a second and then get it out again for both to play at the same time.  This happens about 25% of the time and the fix has worked every time.  

(2) is harder to explain. When they are in auto transparency mode, if I am listening to music and a call comes in or I switch to another app, sometimes the transparency kicks in and I hear the environmental noise with the call/app faintly in the background.  Again, putting them back in the case fixes this, but I find this one more annoying. 

Certainly not anything up to the level of problems I have with the MTW case, but they also don’t sound quite as good.


----------



## Rickyearl

howdy said:


> Is it just a issue with the Grey Terrazzo?


Dunno, but I have only seen it in pics of the grey terrazzo, so maybe.  It doesn’t actually look bad, just different. 

I may shoot an email to M&D to see what they say.


----------



## chinmie

so apparently the Mifo o5 standard and professional version has the same exact box description about the driver and no telling difference between the unit itself by looks, except for the green stickers saying which version it is...

it makes me wary if they are actually different or just the same product with different pricing?

the only way to be sure is having both units and compare them head to head..


----------



## chinmie

kiwikozo said:


> I haven't had any connection issues with the M2 at the gym. Have used them every day the past 3 weeks. Just make sure you insert them correctly and not facing inwards. Initially, I made that mistake a couple of times and the earbuds didn't pair.
> 
> Really don't have any negatives - be sure to get the spinfit cp100 as they really improve the soundstage, clarity,  and tighten up the bass over the comply ones provided. The M2 are super sensitive to the type of earbuds you pair them with.
> 
> If you want longer than 3.5 hours battery then that could be negative, but they charge quickly. Updating the firmware takes a while - 30 minutes at times but this isn't something you'd have to do regularly.



yup, agreed. the M2 is really sensitive to tip selection. i settled with JVC spiral dots because it adds a bit more space, making the soundstage room-ier



Rickyearl said:


> About 2 weeks. The biggest two problems are (1) that sometimes they don’t pair with each other and I only get sound out of one ear.  It’s weird - I can push the touch surface and switch back and forth, but have to put one back in the case for a second and then get it out again for both to play at the same time.  This happens about 25% of the time and the fix has worked every time.
> 
> (2) is harder to explain. When they are in auto transparency mode, if I am listening to music and a call comes in or I switch to another app, sometimes the transparency kicks in and I hear the environmental noise with the call/app faintly in the background.  Again, putting them back in the case fixes this, but I find this one more annoying.
> 
> Certainly not anything up to the level of problems I have with the MTW case, but they also don’t sound quite as good.



the best way to pair the M2 is taking out one first, wait for a bit, then pull the second one out. sometimes when i pull both of them at once, both would be connected to the phone individually. it's easy to fix this, just disconnect one of them from the bluetooth menu, and it will automatically pair itself to each other


----------



## indigo

Rickyearl said:


> Same.  Could possibly use small on the left side but that’s consistent with stock and Spinfit (and the Trinity Kombi I found in a drawer).


Thanks. I use small stocks for the MTW and normal stocks for the Jabra 65ts, so am deciding between small and mediums.


----------



## nc8000

howdy said:


> Another question for the M2 users, do you experience drop outs at the gym, especially when a lot of people are there?
> These seem like the best ones for the gym but hard to say. It's between the M2s, Bose soundsport and Jabra Elite Sport.



Don't go to the gym but have used them in crowded places and have not had a single drop out in 3 weeks. Only niggle is that the battery only last a little over 3 hours but in most cases that is enough. Using them with Spinfits and they are now my daily driver, don't use the E8 or G1 at all


----------



## howdy

Thanks for all the answers for the m2.

I do have one more question. Maybe I'm not understanding this correctly, when pairing the M2, each pairs separately, meaning each one takes a separate Bluetooth signal from my phone? My phone is only able to do 2( one for my watch and 1 for something else) would it require both?


----------



## nc8000

howdy said:


> Thanks for all the answers for the m2.
> 
> I do have one more question. Maybe I'm not understanding this correctly, when pairing the M2, each pairs separately, meaning each one takes a separate Bluetooth signal from my phone? My phone is only able to do 2( one for my watch and 1 for something else) would it require both?



The first bud out of the case pairs with the phone in mono mode. If you take the second bud out it pairs with the first (the first becomes master and the second slave) and the set is now paired to the phone as a stereo headset using just one connection. Either bud can be master or slave and if used as a stereo headset they swap role after about 1 1/2 hours to balance the battery consumption


----------



## vladzakhar

I hope they will work it out to make the gap shorter  when earbuds swapping roles. It's at least 10 sec before they start playing again.

I am using my m2 every day for about 6 months now and I don't have any major issues, except couple:
The one I mentioned above and another one is that the battery is not going to sleep and discharging without the case.
The only solution for this issue is to turn off the bluetooth connection, when the battery stops discharging.

Also, some folks are saying that the m2 sound is not as good as MTWs or MW07. In my opinion they sound just as good or even better. At least with my Iphone X.


----------



## WesennTony

howdy said:


> So it seems the M2 do a great job in crowded places. My Jaybird Runs suck at the gym as they are constantly cutting out but they sound great for gym use. I'm really leaning yards towards the M2 as they check all boxes but connectivity is a huge concern for me at the gym. There is nothing worse than getting mentally into your workout and dealing with constant dropouts.


I'm alone to experience dropouts with M2, partly due to my phone (LG V30) which defaults AAC codec. The dropouts do not get worse in gym, though, and if I switch to AptX the dropouts are gone. If you have iPhone or Android phones with defaulted AptX, you're good to go. Another time I had dropouts in gym was a rookie mistake, as someone has mentioned I took both earbuds out at the same time, so that they fought each other as the master for quite a while with frequent dropouts from one side to other. Switching to AptX in my phone also disables the touch control, which does me a favor in gym that I don't have to worry about inadvertent touches when I wipe out the sweat. So the major downside is that AAC issue in my phone. I hope that they can solve it with future  fw update, or maybe Android Pie can work it out. The other "downside" is that they can not de-throne MW07 in SQ, though my desire to get MW07 back is starting to fade. M2 are the best for on-the-go, while MW07 for serious listening which lose their edge to my wired setup costing more than their LV version.


----------



## Rickyearl

vladzakhar said:


> Also, some folks are saying that the m2 sound is not as good as MTWs or MW07. In my opinion they sound just as good or even better. At least with my Iphone X.



I mean, you can’t go wrong with any of them.  They’re all 3 significantly better than anything else I have tried, and they’re all bunched together really close.  So it comes down to signature preferences, as well as the physical stuff like the issues with Senn’s case, the design etc.  

When they’re back to $175 I would absolutely recommend them over the Senns and the M&D for most people. It’s nearly half price.


----------



## howdy

Rickyearl said:


> I mean, you can’t go wrong with any of them.  They’re all 3 significantly better than anything else I have tried, and they’re all bunched together really close.  So it comes down to signature preferences, as well as the physical stuff like the issues with Senn’s case, the design etc.
> 
> When they’re back to $175 I would absolutely recommend them over the Senns and the M&D for most people. It’s nearly half price.


Hopefully they go on sale soon as I would like to pick one up as soon as I sell my Jaybird Run and B&O E8.


----------



## nc8000

howdy said:


> Hopefully they go on sale soon as I would like to pick one up as soon as I sell my Jaybird Run and B&O E8.



I like the size and fit of the M2 better than the E8 and there are no drop outs on the M2 whereas the E8 has many. The E8 does have longer battery time. Sound wise it’s a toss up


----------



## hifi80sman

OK...so...the Mifo O5 re-brand (Halfsun) was actually the dynamic driver version (as indicated on the box).  Sad to say, but first impressions are not that good.

PROS
- Fit and seal are good.
- Case is metal and feels very high-end.
- Mids are fairly detailed.

CONS
- Overall sound is dark and treble response (air & sparkle) are non-existent.
- Bass is underwhelming with little texture.
- Button control scheme is absolutely horrible.  Not only does it require you press it in a manner that jams them in more from an angle, but the buttons are located in odd spots, so you'll have to re-seat the earbud once you're done.
- Buttons themselves are mushy, except for one of them, so there's no tactile feedback on 3/4 buttons.

Overall, this is a pass for me.  Sound is not impressive.  The "Reserwa" TWE for $25 that I also ordered with the Mifo O5 sound better with a responsive touch control scheme.  They also came in a metal case and the whole package feels very solid.  Even though they're only SBC, it uses a 10mm graphene driver vs. the 6mm dynamic driver in the Mifo O5.


----------



## chinmie

hifi80sman said:


> OK...so...the Mifo O5 re-brand (Halfsun) was actually the dynamic driver version (as indicated on the box).  Sad to say, but first impressions are not that good.
> 
> PROS
> - Fit and seal are good.
> ...



try giving the halfsun a couple of hours or days of playtime. whether you believe in burn in or not, but the first couple of days i use my mifo with the medium size eartips because it sounded too muddy in the bass and too dark in the treble. after a couple of days i noticed the sound is getting lighter and the bass lessened, so i tried the largest tips again (which is my usual fit). nowadays it still has a dark sound, but now it sounds "creamy" and not muddy, while the treble is warm and detailed. 
i had an audio meeting with two of my friends a couple of days ago, and they both ordered the mifo after hearing my unit. one of them is ordering the Pro version instead, so i would be able to compare the standard to the pro soon. 
one other thing is is that it is sensitive to how you fit it in the ears. i found that pushing it too deep kills the "air" . the best way for me to fit it is put it lightly and twist a little.

I'm also curious about the Reserwa TWS you bought. how's the battery life and control scheme on those? can it change next/previous tracks and volume too? can it be turn on and off from the earpiece only? how does it compare to your other TWS?


----------



## hifi80sman

chinmie said:


> I'm also curious about the Reserwa TWS you bought. how's the battery life and control scheme on those? can it change next/previous tracks and volume too? can it be turn on and off from the earpiece only? how does it compare to your other TWS?


I haven't tested the battery out to the fullest, but they seem to be about what is advertised.

They are only SBC, but they sound pretty clean.  Straight out of the box, they sound better, to me, than the Mifo O5.  There is an emphasis on the bass to be sure, but it's not muddy and just sounds "good"; something the typical consumer off the street would be more than happy with.  Noise floor isn't too bad either.  They lack good transparency, but that's to be expected.

The control scheme is pretty good, even if it's a little sensitive.  They have full controls, meaning track, volume, play/pause, siri, etc.  They do not power on/off via earbuds themselves, rather, they do so when you take them out of the case and put them back in.  For $25, these are a great deal.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

So what's the current status of the MTW? STill no go? No updates to help?


----------



## joshnor713

SomeGuyDude said:


> So what's the current status of the MTW? STill no go? No updates to help?



Been loving mine


----------



## howdy

SomeGuyDude said:


> So what's the current status of the MTW? STill no go? No updates to help?


You still considering picking one up?
I love mine, sound great!


----------



## Tonza (Jan 28, 2019)

Could anyone compare the MW07 with Jaybird X3? The X3 is my current "do stuff" earphone and I have been thinking of upgrading to true wireless.
But I can't justify the price increase to 3x if they don't sound better.

I do have the ES100 but thats more convenience at home rather than activities. (still has cables)


----------



## Tobias89

HI guys. I"m looking to replace my liberty+. Seem like the sabbat e12 is pretty well received here. How's the mifo o5 pro (BA)?


----------



## korefuji

experienced my first disconnections with the m2, when wearing a hat. Annoying, but I guess i gotta brave the weather then


----------



## clerkpalmer

SomeGuyDude said:


> So what's the current status of the MTW? STill no go? No updates to help?



Mine work great. Just don’t let the charging case go empty. Keep the case with some juice.


----------



## gorman

By 2019 I thought we would have started to see proper custom IEMs totally wireless. Bluetooth 5.0 is now sufficiently widespread to make them a valid proposition, I would think.


----------



## clerkpalmer

Tonza said:


> Could anyone compare the MW07 with Jaybird X3? The X3 is my current "do stuff" earphone and I have been thinking of upgrading to true wireless.
> But I can't justify the price increase to 3x if they don't sound better.
> 
> I do have the ES100 but thats more convenience at home rather than activities. (still has cables)





Tonza said:


> Could anyone compare the MW07 with Jaybird X3? The X3 is my current "do stuff" earphone and I have been thinking of upgrading to true wireless.
> But I can't justify the price increase to 3x if they don't sound better.
> 
> I do have the ES100 but thats more convenience at home rather than activities. (still has cables)



The MW07 blows the X3 out of the water in terms of pure sq. I’ve owned X3 and they sound decent to good. MW07 is in a different league.


----------



## Edward Ng

SomeGuyDude said:


> So what's the current status of the MTW? STill no go? No updates to help?


Not sure what you mean—not a single one problem with mine; I love them!


----------



## nc8000

korefuji said:


> experienced my first disconnections with the m2, when wearing a hat. Annoying, but I guess i gotta brave the weather then



I always wear a hat (Australian bush hat) and have not had any connection problems


----------



## korefuji

nc8000 said:


> I always wear a hat (Australian bush hat) and have not had any connection problems


I wear a beanie hat, and it covers my ears, i guess its' blocking the connection?


----------



## clerkpalmer

korefuji said:


> I wear a beanie hat, and it covers my ears, i guess its' blocking the connection?


Has to be why.


----------



## chinmie

korefuji said:


> I wear a beanie hat, and it covers my ears, i guess its' blocking the connection?



shouldn't be a problem because i use it with a motorcycle helmet and never had disconnection


----------



## korefuji

but the motorcycle helmet encompasses both earbuds, with a beanie hat I lose connection in one bud.


----------



## chinmie

korefuji said:


> but the motorcycle helmet encompasses both earbuds, with a beanie hat I lose connection in one bud.



the M2 uses NFMI, so it basically communicates between the units through our head in a direct line. even cupping one or both of them with the palm of our hands won't disconnect the signal


----------



## korefuji

so my pair could be faulty?


----------



## nc8000

korefuji said:


> so my pair could be faulty?



Could be that the fabric of the hat interacts with the touch control


----------



## chinmie (Jan 28, 2019)

korefuji said:


> so my pair could be faulty?



try cupping it with your hand. do they disconnect? if they don't  and if it only happens with your beanie, i would suggest changing the beanie instead 



nc8000 said:


> Could be that the fabric of the hat interacts with the touch control



this is also a possibility. i sometimes use the M2 with the touch sensors pointing upward or inward to reduce accidental touch. of course it will make access to the buttons harder in exchange


----------



## Rickyearl

SomeGuyDude said:


> So what's the current status of the MTW? STill no go? No updates to help?



No - Senn better get going to fix all the stuff they say will be fixed by the end of the month.  MTW case still has drainage issues.  I don't know about the 'crackle' because I never heard it, and as far as my colleagues are concerned, it's the second best sounding for calls behind the MW07.

My thumbnail sketch after two days of on-and-off listening to the M2, MTW and MW07.  Remember these are relative differences - for example, I describe the MTWs as if they are more clinical, and they are when compared to the other two.  But they're not ER-4Ps.

Overall, I think the MTW still offer the best sound profile, but I will confess it's a preference thing.  MTW has more noticeable detail and "snap" to its sound (you could call this "harsh," or "sibilant" if you didn't like it) and slightly wider soundstage.  Best way I can describe it is that the individual instruments seem more noticeable on the MTW, more precisely recorded and positioned.  

MW07 in contrast has a really nice smooth sound without being cluttered or muddy.  It's a less precise sound, but more "natural" feeling.  It's slightly less wide and slightly less detailed, but it cymbal crashes and sudden noises won't make you jump if they hit you unawares.  And they're so comfortable I actually forget about them.  Overall, they're just nicer to listen to for a long period than the other two.  Shame about the battery life.

M2 moves the vocal/mids so forward that the detail is harder to hear - it's there but in the background.  M2's soundstage is smaller than MW07 or MTW, so sometimes it's hard to hear much other than the vocal track - everything is bunched together.  The small, lightweight thing makes them comfortable but they move around a lot and have to be seated.  This doesn't happen with the stock Complys, but those make the sound really muddy to me.  The change to Spinfits made a huge difference - much more than on the MW07 or MTW.  

I will confess that from track to track, my preferences change.  M2 sounds great on something like an "unplugged" ballad, since there's not as much going on and the instruments are right next to each other.  Something orchestral really benefits from the MTW detail.  A heavy rock song benefits from the MW07.

Design-wise, MW07 has them all beat looks by a wide margin.  M2 is the most "scifi" gadgety cool, though, with small size, the cylinder case, and the slide out.  Both MW07 and M2 are conversation starters.  MTW looks kind of klunky and cheap in comparison.

If the case actually _has_ battery, the MTW seems to recharge to full the fastest, followed by the M2 and last the MW07.  Conversely, the MW07 case itself recharges the fastest and the MTW the slowest.

If I were sane enough to buy just one pair, I'd go with the M2 at the $175 sale price - the others are not enough better to justify nearly double the price.  They're also the most portable.  MW07's small case has to be covered in the pouch or it will look like you took sandpaper to it in days, which offsets it's realtively compact size.  The MTW case is relatively huge and drains battery when moved.  The M2 case is durable, well-shaped for travel, and compact.

Then again, if you spend a lot of time thinking about your hair and sunglasses, get the MW07 in one of the "colorways."  People will ask you about them and deep down that's really what you want.  Plus they sound great and are really comfortable, so need to suffer for fashion.

Sound quality aside, it's really hard to recommend the MTW due to it's overall issue set - I feel like we're beta testing them.  If they get fixed, then it's a different story.

If you can swing it, I'd say buy all three and figure it out for yourself.  You can easily return or sell the other two.  At least that's what I'm telling myself.


----------



## hifi80sman (Jan 28, 2019)

SomeGuyDude said:


> So what's the current status of the MTW? STill no go? No updates to help?


No updates yet.  If they update, I may repurchase, as they are a fun sounding, forward earbud, although the plasticy construction and case give me pause.  If I remember correctly, you are into rock/metal, for which the MW07 definitely bests the MTW.  Comparing the 2 whilst listening to Van Halen, Def Leppard, Scorpions, etc. the MTW have a tendency to sound a bit "cluttered", while the MW07 sound great with excellent instrument separation & transparency.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

hifi80sman said:


> No updates yet.  If they update, I may repurchase, as they are a fun sounding, forward earbud, although the plasticy construction and case give me pause.  If I remember correctly, you are into rock/metal, for which the MW07 definitely bests the MTW.  Comparing the 2 whilst listening to Van Halen, Def Leppard, Scorpions, etc. the MTW have a tendency to sound a bit "cluttered", while the MW07 sound great with excellent instrument separation & transparency.



How would you compare them aside from separation/imaging? I'm thinking like response curve and "impact".


----------



## hifi80sman (Jan 28, 2019)

Sometimes, I think I'm just buying Chi-Fi TWEs to test out for @turbobb.  Just picked up a re-brand of the Raycon TWEs, that you may have seen in YouTube ads being promoted by celebrities.  Interestingly, you can basically re-brand them yourself if you buy in bulk at Alibaba.com.  I'm sure this is the route of many "kickstarter" campaigns; basically raise enough funds to buy a bulk order that's customized to a degree.

PROS
- Excellent noise floor.  Surprised here, since many "budget" Chi-Fi TWEs have a slightly higher noise floor.
- *Very* comfortable and secure.  Doesn't look like it, but they are fantastically comfortable.  Some of the best I've tried, actually.  Perfect for the gym.
- Clean sound.  Apparently, they use the Airoha AB1526P SoC which has AAC (see my issue below).  Thumpy bass, smooth mids, and tastefully rolled off highs.  Pleasant listening experience.
- Small form factor.  Case is very compact (see comparison to the MW07 below) and also comes with a microfiber pouch.  Very on-the-go friendly.
- The design reduces pressure when using the MF buttons on each earbud.  They don't get "jammed" in your ear.

CONS
- I can't get my s8 to use AAC, it's defaulting to SBC (Developer Options).
- Not the most transparent.
- Micro USB.
- They don't auto power on when removed from the case (they do power off when placed into the case).


----------



## hifi80sman

SomeGuyDude said:


> How would you compare them aside from separation/imaging? I'm thinking like response curve and "impact".


Sheer impact, the MTW win.  Very forward and aggressive sound signature.  Reminds me of being in a club.

As far as frequency response, rtings.com has some measurements that seem to jive with what I hear (low treble region and classic 10ish kHz spike).  You can EQ with the app, but it's the cheesy dot EQ, so when you're adjusting one area, you lose another.  Better off using the EQ in Spotify for strictly music, but on the flip-side, the settings aren't saved in the earbuds themselves.  All-in-all, they are a warm earbud with some added push in the sibilance region.


----------



## KarimLeVallois

Tonza said:


> Could anyone compare the MW07 with Jaybird X3? The X3 is my current "do stuff" earphone and I have been thinking of upgrading to true wireless.
> But I can't justify the price increase to 3x if they don't sound better.
> 
> I do have the ES100 but thats more convenience at home rather than activities. (still has cables)



I have both the X3 and MW07 and I also agree that there is no competition. The X3 do go loud and have strong bass, but the bass isn’t as good quality and bleeds into the mids quite badly. They also sound quite muffled/veiled in comparison to the MW07. Seriously, try the MW07, you’ll discover a new love for your music.


----------



## hifi80sman (Jan 28, 2019)

KarimLeVallois said:


> I have both the X3 and MW07 and I also agree that there is no competition. The X3 do go loud and have strong bass, but the bass isn’t as good quality and bleeds into the mids quite badly. They also sound quite muffled/veiled in comparison to the MW07. Seriously, try the MW07, you’ll discover a new love for your music.


Completely agree.  The MW07 is in a completely different class and there is no competition.  I also have the X3, and while it's good for what it is, I don't grab it for listening sessions.  They were my old gym earbuds and I still use them occasionally, but the quality of the TWEs out now relegate them to the back of my collection.  I've been completely spoiled by no wires that I don't think I can ever go back.


----------



## WesennTony (Jan 28, 2019)

Just got the Mavin Air-X and listened for about 2hrs. Man they sound great! The sound stage is truely 3D with quite a depth. They're very neutral tuning and faithful representation, reminding of Audio Technica Ath-E70 paired with my LG V30, with a tad less bass. For sound quality I'll put them ahead of earin M2, and very close to MW07. The studio monitor style signature may turn someone off, though, as I wish they can add a little bit juice in bass. M2, on the other hand, are slightly bright and more pleasant in mids. I still think M2 are the best on-the-go, giving me a relaxed music background when I need to focus on other stuff like workout, study, shopping, etc.


----------



## mikp

WesennTony said:


> Just got the Mavin Air-X and listened for about 2hrs. Man they sound great! The sound stage is truely 3D with quite a depth. They're very neutral tuning and faithful representation, reminding of Audio Technica Ath-E70 paired with my LG V30, with a tad less bass. For sound quality I'll put them ahead of earin M2, and very close to MW07. The studio monitor style signature may turn someone off, though, as I wish they can add a little bit juice in bass.



have you tried them with foam tips? A little more bass then.  Waiting for some spinfits just to see what the hype is, may try them on the mavin.

My lg g7 defaults to aac over apt-x, is it the same issue on lg v30?


----------



## WesennTony

mikp said:


> have you tried them with foam tips? A little more bass then.  Waiting for some spinfits just to see what the hype is, may try them on the mavin.
> 
> My lg g7 defaults to aac over apt-x, is it the same issue on lg v30?


I'm still using the stock silicone tips. I don't have very good experience with foam tips, so I don't bother to try. 
Yes they default to AAC in my LG V30. But I can not tell any difference switching to AptX, and the button controls still work, unlike M2.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

hifi80sman said:


> Sheer impact, the MTW win.  Very forward and aggressive sound signature.  Reminds me of being in a club.
> 
> As far as frequency response, rtings.com has some measurements that seem to jive with what I hear (low treble region and classic 10ish kHz spike).  You can EQ with the app, but it's the cheesy dot EQ, so when you're adjusting one area, you lose another.  Better off using the EQ in Spotify for strictly music, but on the flip-side, the settings aren't saved in the earbuds themselves.  All-in-all, they are a warm earbud with some added push in the sibilance region.



Hmmmm. Very interesting. I like aggressive sound, I admit. 

Still, doubt I'll snag 'em. The MW07 have been treating me well and honestly it's just battery that irks. No sense in changing pants mid-crap when the sound is as great as it is.


----------



## WesennTony

Tonza said:


> Could anyone compare the MW07 with Jaybird X3? The X3 is my current "do stuff" earphone and I have been thinking of upgrading to true wireless.
> But I can't justify the price increase to 3x if they don't sound better.
> 
> I do have the ES100 but thats more convenience at home rather than activities. (still has cables)


IMHO the sabbat X12 pro, which cost about $45, beat X3 handily in terms of SQ. If you prefer insertion style, Sabbat E12 may be another good option, although I heard that they have different sound signature. As for MW07 - no comparison.


----------



## howdy

WesennTony said:


> Just got the Mavin Air-X and listened for about 2hrs. Man they sound great! The sound stage is truely 3D with quite a depth. They're very neutral tuning and faithful representation, reminding of Audio Technica Ath-E70 paired with my LG V30, with a tad less bass. For sound quality I'll put them ahead of earin M2, and very close to MW07. The studio monitor style signature may turn someone off, though, as I wish they can add a little bit juice in bass. M2, on the other hand, are slightly bright and more pleasant in mids. I still think M2 are the best on-the-go, giving me a relaxed music background when I need to focus on other stuff like workout, study, shopping, etc.


Whats the size difference between the M2 and the marvin and which has better connection? Thanks!


----------



## WesennTony (Jan 28, 2019)

howdy said:


> Whats the size difference between the M2 and the marvin and which has better connection? Thanks!


The M2 are smaller and more comfortable. After 2hrs of listening, my ears are feeling a bit pain now where they touch the Air-X's body, which never happened in M2. It's still early with air-X, though, and I may do some tip rolling and add the stabilizer to see if they can be more comfortable. I don't have any dropout in air-X so far. In my case, air-X are definitely better for connection.


----------



## kiwikozo

Air-X have a much longer connection range over the M2 - don't they claim 100m? The battery life is also insanely good.

I'd like to try them even though I'm unsure about the comfort aspect. I prefer a neutral sound which I can EQ to my liking. 

Unfortunately, I don't think any style of TW will be as comfortable as the M2s style for my ears.

@howdy Did you try the M2 / Air-X with any different tips like the spinfit cp100?? 

Is the Air-X case pocketable/durable? How secure is the Air-X for the gym / running?


----------



## howdy

kiwikozo said:


> Air-X have a much longer connection range over the M2 - don't they claim 100m? The battery life is also insanely good.
> 
> I'd like to try them even though I'm unsure about the comfort aspect. I prefer a neutral sound which I can EQ to my liking.
> 
> ...


I sold my Jaybird Runs and B&O E8 and I was looking at getting the M2 but now I see the Marvins might be a good one as well. This would be primarily for the gym and when ever I might sweet a lot. I have the Senns and MW07 for other listening.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

In the interest of science, I tried out the Skullcandy Push.

tl;dr they're everything I thought they'd be from Skullcandy. Cheap feeling, bad fit, weak sound.


----------



## chinmie

WesennTony said:


> The studio monitor style signature may turn someone off



seems like my kind of sound. might check out the Mavin later


----------



## hifi80sman

SomeGuyDude said:


> In the interest of science, I tried out the Skullcandy Push.
> 
> tl;dr they're everything I thought they'd be from Skullcandy. Cheap feeling, bad fit, weak sound.


Yeah, they feel pretty cheap.  I ended up returning them as well (I assume you're returning).  Skullcandy is pretty much the Chi-Fi of Chi-Fi.


----------



## turbobb

Rickyearl said:


> I don’t see that but this is odd.  On the straight side of the terrazo part I can see the edge of the metal piece rhat the acetate was molded over very clearly. Like the acetate didn’t completely cover it. It’s uniform so I guess it’s on purpose, but the black ones I am borrowing (for the case) don’t have that and the press release pics don’t either. See the pic. Anybody with the non-black have this same thing?



Mine has the same issue on both:


----------



## kiwikozo

howdy said:


> I sold my Jaybird Runs and B&O E8 and I was looking at getting the M2 but now I see the Marvins might be a good one as well. This would be primarily for the gym and when ever I might sweet a lot. I have the Senns and MW07 for other listening.



I honestly can't see any TW as being better than the M2 for gym use right now.

They have a tight bass response with the cp100 tips, perfect for the sort of music you'd want to listen to at the gym. I just EQ down the highs a touch and they're now perfect. I find the sound exciting and that the narrower soundstage vs MTW / MW07 actually suits it better for gym situations.

Sound isolation is perfect, they become dangerously loud. Transparency feature if you use it is the best out of all TW headphones (custom far/near - auto/on). Easily the most comfortable TW and the case is also tiny and you can easily carry them around. Call quality is really good for a TW.

If you are looking for a TW earphone on the go / the gym I'd primarily suggest the M2 with cp100 tips.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

I would NOT use the MW07 for the gym. The battery life is too dicey especially if you like loud music (which is necessary), the fit isn't as rock secure as others in case of a lot of movement, and they don't feel particularly well guarded against wax and sweat.


----------



## howdy

kiwikozo said:


> I honestly can't see any TW as being better than the M2 for gym use right now.
> 
> They have a tight bass response with the cp100 tips, perfect for the sort of music you'd want to listen to at the gym. I just EQ down the highs a touch and they're now perfect. I find the sound exciting and that the narrower soundstage vs MTW / MW07 actually suits it better for gym situations.
> 
> ...


It will be a hard decision. They both seem great but wow the Mavins have some wicked long battery life and fairly sweet proof and most important for me is connection. I hate getting into my workout and losing sound due to connection issues. I really liked the M2s but the Mavins seem perfect, also not really important to most but I'm a Machinist and I think its cool that the Mavins driver is made of PEEK and I machine that which is a really expensive plastic material.


----------



## sifulee

How does the sennheiser momentum compare to the MW07? They are in the same price range so I'm just curious. Thanks


----------



## clerkpalmer

sifulee said:


> How does the sennheiser momentum compare to the MW07? They are in the same price range so I'm just curious. Thanks



Do some searching in here. There is plenty of vigorous debate. As a quick summary, a small majority seem to prefer the sq of the mw07 to the MTW but it’s close. Personally I think the MW07 is a meaningful step up in sq. Downside is MW07 has poor battery life. You should assume 2.5 hours on a charge and if you get a set that does better, consider yourself lucky. A lot of folks have had issues with the MTW losing charge in the case, connecting and turning off in the case and other gremlins. Fewer reported issues with MW07. Most like the fit of both. MW07 is more premium looking.

Really can’t go wrong either way. Both are excellent in my opinion owning both. If I had to pick one, it would be the MW07.


----------



## sifulee

I currently have the bose soundsport and have been very happy with them, I'm curious if the MW07 have similar sound quality. I found the soundsport to have fantastic sq for the price.


----------



## sifulee

How is the phone quality of the MW07? How does the mic preform? Can everyone hear you okay for those that are soft spoken?


----------



## clerkpalmer

sifulee said:


> I currently have the bose soundsport and have been very happy with them, I'm curious if the MW07 have similar sound quality. I found the soundsport to have fantastic sq for the price.


Yes they do have great sound for the price. The MW07 is an upgrade however. You’ll have to decide if it’s worth the extra dough.


----------



## sifulee

Thanks that's good to know, I would be very happy with them in that case. I may upgrade to these, do they every sell for lower then msrp? And if anyone has opinions about the call quality that would be very helpful thanks again.


----------



## turbobb

hifi80sman said:


> Sometimes, I think I'm just buying Chi-Fi TWEs to test out for @turbobb.  Just picked up a re-brand of the Raycon TWEs, that you may have seen in YouTube ads being promoted by celebrities.



Ha! Likewise buddy, likewise. TBH, not really all that impressed by the MW07's in consideration of the price. Been pleasantly surprised though by a bunch of the Chi-Fi unit's I've tested with the Romeo 07R's and Mpow T5's coming to about 75-80% of the SQ but only for 20% of the price. A shame they both have connectivity issues though (the T5 much worse than the 07R). The MW07's while really good sounding have a spike around 6K range that really grates on my ears on certain tracks and gives certain vocals a slight metallic tinge to it (FWIW, I'm treble sensitive but more of the Beyer variety despite owning a DT1990, this spike is lower).

As for Raycon, guess they're equal opportunity stalker but I didn't take the bait... lol   Do have my eyes on a few other Chi-Fi units but need to clear my queue first. ;o)


----------



## Quad Dac

@turbobb hey mate does your pair of Romeo 07R have any background hiss?

Mine so bad I can hear it when music playing. I never returned any earphones before. Thinking this has to be the first. 

They are comfy tho


----------



## RobinFood (Jan 29, 2019)

Looks like Japan is getting another true wireless with the QCC3026 chip, this time by Zero Audio, that had the Zero Audio Carbo that made a splash a while back.

https://www.e-earphone.jp/shopdetail/000000226065/

It is going to have a Class 1 bluetooth connection and IPX5 water proof rating. Looks like they will be expecting stock at the beginning to mid February. At the price they run for I might try them out if I can't find a Nuarl NT01AX until then. Apparently it has Graphene coated drivers and holds 7 hours in the buds, and 28 hours in the case, and has an app for updates. Just started reading reviews from demo units but they seem positive, maybe mid-centric.

I did read a lot of reviews that claimed that the QCC3026 chip TWE sets are not working with some phones after they upgraded to Android 9.0.

Edit: Read more reviews on the TWZ-1000 - According to the reviews it has forward mids and an elevated bass that goes pretty low, and highs are in the background. Sounds like it has a lot of detail, not much about the soundstage, but a very comfortable fit. There is a blue led ring on the outside though for the logo, I feel like that could be super bright and annoying in the dark.


----------



## sly_in_the_sky

Fostex TM2... interesting... 

https://www.theverge.com/2019/1/25/...arphones-modular-price-release-date-namm-2019


----------



## chinmie

Finally after 30 days of daily use and some nights leaving it on standby connected to my phone, the battery on the case of my Mifo o5 emptied.

that is crazy amount of juice!


----------



## RobinFood

sly_in_the_sky said:


> Fostex TM2... interesting...
> 
> https://www.theverge.com/2019/1/25/...arphones-modular-price-release-date-namm-2019



Not even out yet and aliexpress is already copying it 

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/TRN...-for-Shure-SE215-SE535-SE846/32957895723.html

I kind of feel like we need to see the case though. I feel like the charging case and having a convenient place to put the buds is what makes the magic of TWEs. If they just charge via a USB-C cable like a neckband bluetooth cable, I won't be very interested.


----------



## sly_in_the_sky

RobinFood said:


> Not even out yet and aliexpress is already copying it
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/TRN...-for-Shure-SE215-SE535-SE846/32957895723.html
> 
> I kind of feel like we need to see the case though. I feel like the charging case and having a convenient place to put the buds is what makes the magic of TWEs. If they just charge via a USB-C cable like a neckband bluetooth cable, I won't be very interested.



Yes, I have those on aliexpress and work quite good...

 I agree with you concerning the case but the Fostex claim to have many power for keeping it all day, so without the real need to have a case except for protecting them. The one on Aliexpress last for only 4 hours.


----------



## rhsauer

turbobb said:


> Ha! Likewise buddy, likewise. TBH, not really all that impressed by the MW07's in consideration of the price. Been pleasantly surprised though by a bunch of the Chi-Fi unit's I've tested with the Romeo 07R's and Mpow T5's coming to about 75-80% of the SQ but only for 20% of the price. A shame they both have connectivity issues though (the T5 much worse than the 07R). The MW07's while really good sounding have a spike around 6K range that really grates on my ears on certain tracks and gives certain vocals a slight metallic tinge to it (FWIW, I'm treble sensitive but more of the Beyer variety despite owning a DT1990, this spike is lower).
> 
> As for Raycon, guess they're equal opportunity stalker but I didn't take the bait... lol   Do have my eyes on a few other Chi-Fi units but need to clear my queue first. ;o)


Try resetting the t5's and repairing.  My connection issues seem to have abated.


----------



## RobinFood

sly_in_the_sky said:


> Yes, I have those on aliexpress and work quite good...
> 
> I agree with you concerning the case but the Fostex claim to have many power for keeping it all day, so without the real need to have a case except for protecting them. The one on Aliexpress last for only 4 hours.



The real nice thing about the case though is that I have a super convenient place to put them. 
Usually I listen to music on my commute, put things away when I get to where I want to be, and put them back on on the commute home.
The case makes everything very elegant and sexy. No rolling up cables or shoving something in a case that is larger than it has to be. The case is usually hard and does a great job protecting the insides.
Of course, that would be difficult if you can use any earphone you like.


----------



## Finaen

I just ordered E12 from https://fr.aliexpress.com/item/E12-...651.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.22f86c37RP7AYP i hope they are legit.
I want to use them for gym primarily what do you guys think about them pls ?


----------



## Wrathbringer27

RobinFood said:


> Not even out yet and aliexpress is already copying it
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/TRN...-for-Shure-SE215-SE535-SE846/32957895723.html
> 
> I kind of feel like we need to see the case though. I feel like the charging case and having a convenient place to put the buds is what makes the magic of TWEs. If they just charge via a USB-C cable like a neckband bluetooth cable, I won't be very interested.



It's been out for awhile alr


----------



## Rickyearl

turbobb said:


> Mine has the same issue on both:


Nice pics!   Maybe it is a grey terrazzo thing.  

BTW, your grey terrazzo part seems a lot more “complicated” than mine.  A little jealous, honestly.  But the fact that they are so different really accentuates the whole “hand made” thing.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

sifulee said:


> I currently have the bose soundsport and have been very happy with them, I'm curious if the MW07 have similar sound quality. I found the soundsport to have fantastic sq for the price.



The MW07 is a _significant_ sound upgrade from the Bose, and I think the Bose are fantastic.


----------



## KarimLeVallois

Rickyearl said:


> Nice pics!   Maybe it is a grey terrazzo thing.
> 
> BTW, your grey terrazzo part seems a lot more “complicated” than mine.  A little jealous, honestly.  But the fact that they are so different really accentuates the whole “hand made” thing.



No two pairs look the same, which is great! I went with the tortoise shell personally as I thought the grey terrazzo looked a bit too 'army camo' for me lol


----------



## KarimLeVallois

SomeGuyDude said:


> The MW07 is a _significant_ sound upgrade from the Bose, and I think the Bose are fantastic.



I think the MW07 sound better than the Bose in every single way possible, but to be honest, I've never been keen on the Bose sound.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

KarimLeVallois said:


> I think the MW07 sound better than the Bose in every single way possible, but to be honest, I've never been keen on the Bose sound.



I can understand that. Personally I liked the Bose sound a bunch, especially for in the gym. 

Really all that's left is the damn MTW. Guess I gotta...


----------



## turbobb

Quad Dac said:


> @turbobb hey mate does your pair of Romeo 07R have any background hiss?
> 
> Mine so bad I can hear it when music playing. I never returned any earphones before. Thinking this has to be the first.
> 
> They are comfy tho


Nope, mine are dead silent. Agreed on the comfort given their light weight but I'm using SpinFit CP350 tips. Really great SQ and airy sounding but poor button placement; would've been much better on the rear towards the back of the earbud where it's wider so I can easily grasp with three fingers easily. Current placement applies pressure on the eartips and messes with the seal thus necessitating the three finger grab but it forces the wrist into an awkward angle. I've also seen other manufacturers with this style including the expensive Japanese brand.


----------



## Rickyearl

KarimLeVallois said:


> No two pairs look the same, which is great! I went with the tortoise shell personally as I thought the grey terrazzo looked a bit too 'army camo' for me lol



I think it looks like the sink area in a high-end gentleman's club.  I keep expecting a dude to hand me a washcloth for a tip.


----------



## KarimLeVallois

Rickyearl said:


> I think it looks like the sink area in a high-end gentleman's club.  I keep expecting a dude to hand me a washcloth for a tip.



pmsl! Also offering you a selection of colognes for a small fee...


----------



## turbobb

rhsauer said:


> Try resetting the t5's and repairing.


I've done that multiple times but unfortunately the issue remains. What source do you connect them to?


----------



## rhsauer

turbobb said:


> I've done that multiple times but unfortunately the issue remains. What source do you connect them to?


iPhone Xs Max.  I had a lot of dropouts between the left and right earphones, but clearing totally and repairing carefully seems to have fixed it.


----------



## BigZ12

https://www.jaybirdsport.com/nb-no/run-xt-true-wireless-headphones.html#985-000894
SBC, BT4.1... no thank you. I really hoped these would support BT5.0 and AAC.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

BT5 is nice but far from a dealbreaker. AFAIK the VModa Crossfades still use friggin' BT3 and it's aces both in connection and sound quality thanks to the codecs. If it's 4.1 then I don't think there's anything beyond maybe battery life or an occasional interference blip that anyone would notice.


----------



## korefuji

SomeGuyDude said:


> BT5 is nice but far from a dealbreaker. AFAIK the VModa Crossfades still use friggin' BT3 and it's aces both in connection and sound quality thanks to the codecs. If it's 4.1 then I don't think there's anything beyond maybe battery life or an occasional interference blip that anyone would notice.


This. So. Much. The significance of having BT 5.0 is so over played, it makes me nauseous.


----------



## turbobb

@rhsauer - thx, I have acces to an XS I can test with.

@BigZ12 - strange, the CSR I chatted with mentioned it was 4.2. I can live with their SBC implementation as I find it quite good but yeah, 4.2 now while a bevy of 5's are being released led me to cancel my pre-order.


----------



## turbobb

@korefuji - same could be said about the codecs but in the end, everybody has specific needs. Maybe 5 isn't important to you given no range or connection or battery life issues but those can be requirements for others. Great we have so many choices no? ;o)


----------



## SomeGuyDude

turbobb said:


> @korefuji - same could be said about the codecs but in the end, everybody has specific needs. Maybe 5 isn't important to you given no range or connection or battery life issues but those can be requirements for others. Great we have so many choices no? ;o)



What I'm saying is I keep seeing people go "NOPE SORRY I WON'T BUY IT BECAUSE OF ____" but oftentimes that criterion is totally inconsequential and they're basically avoiding a product that would suit all of their needs.

With BT5.0, unless you're planning on leaving your phone inside while you go to the 7/11 or your head is about 10 feet wide and made of solid lead you shouldn't run into any connection problems, and battery life is going to be more affected by other factors. If the end result is 4hr of battery, What does it matter if it has BT5 or not? 

I really hate this forum sometimes because it seems like everyone eventually starts buying them for reasons other than the experience of using the damn things.


----------



## korefuji

turbobb said:


> @korefuji - same could be said about the codecs but in the end, everybody has specific needs. Maybe 5 isn't important to you given no range or connection or battery life issues but those can be requirements for others. Great we have so many choices no? ;o)



some what, as SomeGuyDude says, if you were to ignore all the bt 4.2 and below the mw07, which for  me is the best twe out there for sound, would not even get a look. Bt 5 is in its infancy, in terms of adoption, not every new earbud has it, 4.2 is cheaper as an option, and I havent' seen any categorical evidence that says the battery is significantly improved with the use of bt 5. YMMV, but I think there's a touch of tech snobbery going on.


----------



## rhsauer

Just FYI, I was wondering if there is any way to confirm that my iPhone was connecting to various earphones using the AAC codec, and found (on this board) the following method to check the Bluetooth codecs and connection quality on an iPhone:

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/how...n-ios-device-and-bluetooth-headphones.835289/

Playing around with this, I found that the Sabbat E12’s and the Mifo o5’s (both of use, I believe, Realtek SOCs), apparently connect via AAC VBR at a maximum connection speed of 221 kbps:

“A2DP configured at 44.1 KHz. Codec: AAC-LC, VBR max: *221* kbps. 1 frames * (12+644) bytes = *656* per RTP (max=656) every 23.22 ms”

On the other hand, the MTW’s, the Mavin’s and the MPOW T5’s (all of which, I think, use Qualcomm chips), apparently connect via AAC VBR at a maximum connection speed of 256 kbps:

“A2DP configured at 44.1 KHz. Codec: AAC-LC, VBR max: *256* kbps. 1 frames * (12+744) bytes = *756* per RTP (max=879) every 23.22 ms”

(Note the numbers I’ve put in boldface.)  Further, in all cases, a separate log entry indicated a connection rate that the actual connection speed bounced around (consistent with AAC VBR, I suppose) and more often than not was lower than 200.  For example:

“A2DP LinkQualityReport: ReTx = 24.6% ( 14 / 57), TxPwr = 7 dBm, RSSI = -57, {50,75,90}th Noise = { -94, -93, -92} for 20 ch, 2EDR pkts = 26, rate = *192* kbps”

Before doing this, my assumption would have been that all iPhones connected via CBR AAC at 256 kbps — but apparently that assumption is wrong.  I’m reluctant to correlate these numbers too directly with perceived audio quality, but I thought others might find these results interesting — and, perhaps, add to my understanding of what they mean.


----------



## nc8000

rhsauer said:


> Just FYI, I was wondering if there is any way to confirm that my iPhone was connecting to various earphones using the AAC codec, and found (on this board) the following method to check the Bluetooth codecs and connection quality on an iPhone:
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/how...n-ios-device-and-bluetooth-headphones.835289/
> 
> ...



Unfortunately this only works for the minority with Apple computers running Mac OS


----------



## Rickyearl

Wonder if i could do this at the Apple store?


----------



## albau (Jan 29, 2019)

kiwikozo said:


> Ah thanks, makes sense since the digital conversion happens inside of the wireless earphone and the quality over Bluetooth will not exceed the lossy transmission standard.
> 
> This must be why the more expensive TW buds generally sound better because of more costly DACs.


I beg to disagree. MW07 is case in point. It has the cheapest Qualcomm SoC, the one even without a dedicated DAC, programmable EQ and updateable firmware. And still among current TWS they're one of the best sounding thanks, I suspect, to 10mm custom driver and sound (pun) acoustic engineering. In the end TWS, as any headphone, are most of all about acoustic design. I strongly believe that even lossless bitsream from the cleanest of sources won't make any headphone sound good if it has dismal driver or a badly designed acoustic path. But with good analog audio innards you can have well sounding TWS even if it supports only standard implementation of SBC over BT3 and a reasonable quality source in terms of mastering and bandwidth.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

albau said:


> I beg to disagree. MW07 is case in point. It has the cheapest Qualcomm SoC, the one even without a dedicated DAC, programmable EQ and updateable firmware. And still among current TWS they're one of the best sounding thanks, I suspect, to 10mm custom driver and sound (pun) acoustic engineering. In the end TWS, as any headphone, are most of all about acoustic design. I strongly believe that even lossless bitsream from the cleanest of sources won't make any headphone sound good if it has dismal driver or a badly designed acoustic path. But with good analog audio innards you can have well sounding TWS even if it supports only standard implementation of SBC over BT3 and a reasonable quality source in terms of mastering and bandwidth.



I get amused by people talking about cheapo TWEs having aptX or not when at that level pretty much all that matters is the acoustic design. Codec gets important once the actual drivers and housing are done well. Then you get people upset that friggin LDAC, which is _well _above transparency level, isn't available, like... ugh.

Whenever I ask about stuff, I need to start clarifying that I don't want to hear any tech specs. Just performance.


----------



## Inear

1more is coming out with new TWS that they showed off in CES.

http://www.52audio.com/archives/13691.html


----------



## howdy (Jan 29, 2019)

With my 2nd set of MW07 the battery life is definitely better. I have got over 3 hours a few times now. I will be absolutely keeping these. I'm getting a fairly good seal with Spinfits tips and hopefully better with the Symbio tips when ever they arrive.
I am still however preferring the sound of my Senns still. They are both top notch TWS though and compliment each other in there differences.


----------



## MulberryMadness

Inear said:


> 1more is coming out with new TWS that they showed off in CES.
> 
> http://www.52audio.com/archives/13691.html


seems like ~10-25% of the posts in this megathread are simply repeats of previous posts by those who refuse to read back more than a few pages.

Apple will be releasing the Airpods 2 "soon" (sometime this year, OS 12.2 beta is showing possible update), and rumored changed design/form factor for an Airpods 3? in 2020..or some day  .

I'm sure multiple other posts to this thread will be mentioning 1More's rumored TWS/TWE with ANC (which they seem to be calling ENC) using the qcc5121 'premium level' audio SoC (as compared to entry level 30XX series)...which will come out in June. hmm, maybe I should post up giant sized font, prolly make no difference, as ppl just don't read this thread...just post any given news they see, like lemmings 

https://hexus.net/ce/news/audio-visual/126401-1more-shows-innovative-headphones/

"New at CES 2019 are the True Wireless ENC In Ear headphones. 1More claims that these will be the first such headphones; utilising dual-drivers, *plus Qualcomm's 5121 audio SoC*. Runyon touted a seven hour battery life for this headset. However, thanks to the included charging case you get an additional 24 hours of portability.







There are smart functions available. For example, the headphones include realtime health monitoring. If you like or wish to use smart-assistant AI on the go the True Wireless ENC In Ear headphones are compatible with Siri, Google Assistant, or Alexa. Some technical details are that these headphones support BT 5.0, Apt-X HD, and AAC codecs.

At CES we were told that 1More would run an IndieGogo campaign to launch True Wireless ENC, with availability from *around June time*. Product retail price is expected to be around $149."


----------



## hifi80sman

SomeGuyDude said:


> I can understand that. Personally I liked the Bose sound a bunch, especially for in the gym.
> 
> Really all that's left is the damn MTW. Guess I gotta...


Man, just do it.  I walked into Fry's Electronics yesterday to just "look" around, lo and behold, they had the MTW.  Had to do it again and just wait for the firmware updates.  I guess you don't realize how much you want something until it's right in front of your mug.

I also purchased the E8 again, because I'm a degenerate and need an intervention.  Sadly, I'll have to return the E8s again, given I'm having drop outs of the L earbud about every 5 minutes.


----------



## Rickyearl

hifi80sman said:


> Man, just do it.  I walked into Fry's Electronics yesterday to just "look" around, lo and behold, they had the MTW.  Had to do it again and just wait for the firmware updates.  I guess you don't realize how much you want something until it's right in front of your mug.
> 
> I also purchased the E8 again, because I'm a degenerate and need an intervention.  Sadly, I'll have to return the E8s again, given I'm having drop outs of the L earbud about every 5 minutes.



This post makes me feel much better about not knowing which of the M2, MTW and MW07 to get rid of.

I actually met a person who also has the E8s over the weekend.  He had the black ones.  i have had 2 pair of the grey.  His sound different from either one of mine.  I still have my second pair and we swapped, and he agreed.  His sound fuller, mine more detailed. 

I still needed to hold my right ear just so in order to hear them at their best, so they're just made for ears other than mine.  So those are still going.


----------



## Rickyearl

MulberryMadness said:


> At CES we were told that 1More would run an IndieGogo campaign to launch True Wireless ENC, with availability from *around June time*. Product retail price is expected to be around $149."



"June time?"


----------



## howdy

hifi80sman said:


> Man, just do it.  I walked into Fry's Electronics yesterday to just "look" around, lo and behold, they had the MTW.  Had to do it again and just wait for the firmware updates.  I guess you don't realize how much you want something until it's right in front of your mug.
> 
> I also purchased the E8 again, because I'm a degenerate and need an intervention.  Sadly, I'll have to return the E8s again, given I'm having drop outs of the L earbud about every 5 minutes.


That's exactly how I felt last week when stopping in to best buy to just look and came home with the MW07 again and I'm glad I did!
Now to just decide between The Earin M2 and Mavin Air x. My dog( Blue Heeler) is named Earin (Rin for short) so I'm not sure if that is a sign to get the M2.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

hifi80sman said:


> Man, just do it.  I walked into Fry's Electronics yesterday to just "look" around, lo and behold, they had the MTW.  Had to do it again and just wait for the firmware updates.  I guess you don't realize how much you want something until it's right in front of your mug.
> 
> I also purchased the E8 again, because I'm a degenerate and need an intervention.  Sadly, I'll have to return the E8s again, given I'm having drop outs of the L earbud about every 5 minutes.



You're just the worst.


----------



## WesennTony

Went to gym and tested Mavin Air-X. I put on the silicone stabilizers, which add more secure fit, and more importantly, way more comfortable to my ears without direct contacting the hard plastic body. The size is a bit larger than M2 so I still feel them in my ears, but don't cause me any discomfort. There is no dropout throughout the workout. When running, I put the bud out a little bit to make a loose seal, which completely eliminate the thumping sound while the stabilizers still provided a very secure sitting.
After the test, I change my mind and think Air-X is the best for gym use to me. I still want to keep my LG V30 and in the future upgrade to another V series, which for some reason take AAC as the system default codec, causing quite a few dropouts in M2. Air-X simply gives me zero worries. No need to switch to AptX every time. No drop outs.  No worry about messing up physical button controls. No worry about the battery running out. If I want to stay longer, no worry about the brutal master-slave swapping, which again automatically switch to AAC and then dropouts come back.


----------



## Morbeas

May I ask how the performance (phone call quality is also important to me) of the Mavin Air-Xs are when used with an iPhone XS?


----------



## WesennTony (Jan 30, 2019)

Morbeas said:


> May I ask how the performance (phone call quality is also important to me) of the Mavin Air-Xs are when used with an iPhone XS?


I don't have iPhone. They're not good with my LG V30 for calls, though, even in a quiet environment. The other side kept asking me to speak up until I took one bud and put it close to my mouth.  MW07 and M2 are much better in call quality, as I heard no complaints.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

So because @hifi80sman is a terrible person, I'm taking the MTW for a test drive. I'm about 2 hours deep in and here's my thoughts thus far:

Compared to the MW07, the MTW is a bit... soft. It's hard to explain, but it feels like there's a slight haze over everything, which is likely just because of not having the sharp treble. The result is closer to the Crossfade 2 Wireless but it gives music a bit less "thwack" to it. Beryllium drivers, man...
The fit is great. I got the large tips in and they're just snug and happy right there. 
Once I adjusted, the MTW definitely don't lack in definition or clarity, it's just lesser than. However the music is superbly alive, and there's zero fatigue. For a guy whose library is primarily extreme metal with rap in 2nd place and everything else trailing behind that, this is damn good. 

Okay, the battery. I am absolutely ignoring the L/R battery situation for the simple fact that literally no other TWE I've tried gives that kind of granular battery reading. Jabra, Bose, Sony, B&O, M&D, etc, they always gave a "general" readout that went in increments of 10. There's zero way to know how they compare to others, so what I'm focusing on is how long it takes for them to go from 100% to "low battery warning." After about 2hr the lower of the two (right piece) is reading at 56%, so that sounds good.
Ah yes, touch controls. I forgot how much I hate those. The MW07 has these nice little buttons that make it super easy to figure out what you're doing, Senn wants you to do the whole "tap once for X, tap twice for Y, hold for Z" thing. Not a fan.
The presentation isn't nearly as "premium," for sure. The weird fabric case, the plastic all over, the MW07 by comparison just feel like they're luxurious while the MTW feel "workhorse," if that makes sense.
So far I can't make a call between them. On raw SQ I'm saying the MW07 wins, because they really did have a "wow" factor from the moment I listened, but it's possible that their quality numbed me a bit so there was no way for the MTW to give me a "wow" no matter how great they were. I have about 2 weeks to make a decision on which to return.


----------



## Morbeas

WesennTony said:


> I don't have iPhone. They're not good with my LG V30 for calls, though, even in a quiet environment. The other side kept asking me to speak up until I took one bud and put it close to my mouth.  MW07 and M2 are much better in call quality, as I heard no complaints.



Yeah, I figured there might be functional differences between iOS and Android, so wanted to clear that up. Thanks for the reply.


----------



## hifi80sman

SomeGuyDude said:


> So because @hifi80sman is a terrible person, I'm taking the MTW for a test drive. I'm about 2 hours deep in and here's my thoughts thus far:
> 
> Compared to the MW07, the MTW is a bit... soft. It's hard to explain, but it feels like there's a slight haze over everything, which is likely just because of not having the sharp treble. The result is closer to the Crossfade 2 Wireless but it gives music a bit less "thwack" to it. Beryllium drivers, man...
> The fit is great. I got the large tips in and they're just snug and happy right there.
> ...


Yeah, your findings basically echo mine.  There is a definite under-emphasis in the low treble region which impacts the overall detail and nuance of instruments/vocals, but this can be addressed with EQ.  They are certainly plastic, plastic, plastic, although the fabrication is good.  They are definitely good for the gym and have great connection quality.  I also paired them with my LG TV (with aptX) and movies sound great with no appreciable delay.  They fit a different niche than the MW07 do, so I'll probably end up keeping both.  I sent the E8 packing for good, as it has connection issues and the sound is simply a lesser version of both the MTW and MW07.  The E8 2.0 is not very compelling, given the only difference is the case; the earbuds are exactly the same.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

hifi80sman said:


> Yeah, your findings basically echo mine.  There is a definite under-emphasis in the low treble region which impacts the overall detail and nuance of instruments/vocals, but this can be addressed with EQ.  They are certainly plastic, plastic, plastic, although the fabrication is good.  They are definitely good for the gym and have great connection quality.  I also paired them with my LG TV (with aptX) and movies sound great with no appreciable delay.  They fit a different niche than the MW07 do, so I'll probably end up keeping both.  I sent the E8 packing for good, as it has connection issues and the sound is simply a lesser version of both the MTW and MW07.  The E8 2.0 is not very compelling, given the only difference is the case; the earbuds are exactly the same.



I can really only keep one for financial reasons ATM (just moved, adopted a dog that needs a lot of help), but I really can't pick which just yet. I think it's gonna come down to if I run into any of the charge/case issues others have had.


----------



## Morbeas

As a follow up, if SQ isn't of paramount importance and you have an iPhone, does it make sense to just get a pair of AirPods?


----------



## clerkpalmer

Morbeas said:


> As a follow up, if SQ isn't of paramount importance and you have an iPhone, does it make sense to just get a pair of AirPods?


Only if you REALLY don’t care at all about sq. I have an iPhone and air pods are not in the realm of consideration for me because they sound like garbage. I’d rather listen to piped in gym music.


----------



## Morbeas

clerkpalmer said:


> Only if you REALLY don’t care at all about sq. I have an iPhone and air pods are not in the realm of consideration for me because they sound like garbage. I’d rather listen to piped in gym music.



Haha, oh wow! Ok then, the search continues.


----------



## clerkpalmer

Morbeas said:


> Haha, oh wow! Ok then, the search continues.


Of course apple has probably sold 10 million pair so I may be in the minority. Seriously, even if sq isn’t a top priority you can do better than the airpods for 160.


----------



## Edward Ng

Morbeas said:


> As a follow up, if SQ isn't of paramount importance and you have an iPhone, does it make sense to just get a pair of AirPods?



Apple’s buds, including the AirPods, also don’t fit certain people’s ears well. I’m a good example of this, and AirPods won’t stay in for more than 5 minutes because of the shape of my ears, and basically are impossible to get anything even remotely resembling some form of a shadow of a ghost of a seal of some sorts, so sound like complete sh¡t.

-Ed


----------



## Morbeas

clerkpalmer said:


> Seriously, even if sq isn’t a top priority you can do better than the airpods for 160.



Ok, what would be your #1 recommendation?


----------



## Rickyearl

Morbeas said:


> Ok, what would be your #1 recommendation?



If you can wait, the M2 are the best overall deal in my opinion when on sale for $175 as they were just after Christmas.  At current price ($250) they're not your best bet.  Under Airpod price there are a lot of fans of the Mavin AirX which is available on Amazon for $130 or so.

If you read back a few pages, you can see that if you must have SQ above all else, and you can tolerate/swing it, at around $300 you have either the M&D MW07 or Sennheiser MTW.  Opinions differ on which is best, but most believe those to be the two best SQ-wise.  The MW07 are cooler in almost every way (design and case design, comfort, style), and the MTW has issues that Sennheiser says they are fixing in firmware (case draining by itself, call quality, can't remember but there's another), but a minority here (myself included) think the MTW sounds the better than the MW07.  I'd buy both from some place like Best Buy and return the one I didn't like.


----------



## Morbeas

I've been reading about the Mavins and would be very interested, considering their price-point. I really would like to stay below $150.

So what's the consensus regarding the Mavin Air-X when paired with an iPhone?


----------



## hifi80sman

SomeGuyDude said:


> I can really only keep one for financial reasons ATM (just moved, adopted a dog that needs a lot of help), but I really can't pick which just yet. I think it's gonna come down to if I run into any of the charge/case issues others have had.


For sure.  Priorities, my friend.

Looking forward to your updated feedback!


----------



## hifi80sman

Morbeas said:


> I've been reading about the Mavins and would be very interested, considering their price-point. I really would like to stay below $150.
> 
> So what's the consensus regarding the Mavin Air-X when paired with an iPhone?


What about the Sabbat E12?  Pretty well received here.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07LCQ6ZRP/

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/goi...re-we-there-yet.861024/page-302#post-14738511
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/goi...re-we-there-yet.861024/page-246#post-14696991


----------



## clerkpalmer

Morbeas said:


> Ok, what would be your #1 recommendation?



I agree that the M2 is a solid choice but they are overpriced at $250.  For $150ish, based on what I have tested, I would look at the RHA True Connect and the Bose Soundsport Free.  If you need isolation, RHA is the better choice.  RHA also supports AAC over iPhone despite what their marketing materials state.  The Sonly SPN  700N is another very good option at that price.  If you put a gun to my head at that price point, I'm picking the RHA.


----------



## turbobb

So... I was going to reply re: the features near and dear to some and yada, yada, yada, but we can surely debate that ad nauseam. Bottom line, don't worry about what others want, after all it's not your money they're spending...   As long as you enjoy what you like that's all that matters. The moment you see "It's gotta have this or that..." skip, move on. 

Anyways, back on topic:  ATH-SPORT7TW - was about to chuck these out the window as the touch control on left side was acting up. A single touch is supposed to be volume up and double-tap volume down but every single tap would invoke hear-through (which is only supposed to activate by touching for at least 2 seconds). Quite aggravating to say the least especially as I was trying to get a good fit on my left ear (CP350 med FTW...) but after leaving it alone for about 5 min or so and now it's behaving properly... Go figure 

As for my zero burn-in impressions, so... I feel AT's "house" sound is all over the place. M50/X definitely has a V-shaped profile (more so the former). Their ATH-ANC40BT is very neutral as is their ATH-MSR7 (based on recollection). This has a different profile with a good emphasis on bass that is slightly flabby (including for the subs), treble is there but with a mild roll off. The mid's are also slightly forward and the sound stage isn't bad, but overall sound is not quite as dynamic as the MW07 which is in a different league sound-wise. Again, the bass features prominently but in consideration that these are billed as being for sports and considering the intended use, I think it makes sense. Range is pretty good but falls behind the Aermoo B3's. Still very early and who knows, maybe it'll change with burn-in but I'll update impressions later.
Strange thing I encountered is that my nephew stopped by and while I was talking to him I had paused the music, about 20-30 seconds into the convo, the hear-through activated on its own. Not sure if it's a bug or a feature...  EDIT: NVM, it's a bug, I shut it off and it turned back on again... grrrrr these touch controls are so flaky


----------



## WesennTony

Keep testing Mavin Air-X.... The silicone stabilizers close my ear chamber a bit more, which makes a slightly smaller sound stage but add a bit more bass impact I was looking for. Good! Then ordered Spinfit CP155 tips. They fit Air-X like a glove. The sound has noticeable changes, but not profound. It becomes more crisp, better instrument separation, and more bass texture. Surprisingly they add a sparkling treble as well, but not so that causes any harshness. So the sound signature slightly shifts from Ath-E70 towards  Sennheiser IE800. 

Bad call quality, even in quiet environment. Earin M2 and MW07 win handily for this. Also I was not able to pair Air-X with a BT transmitter to watch TV, probably due to the new chipset and stereo plus thing. M2 (AptX) and Sabbat X12 pro (AAC) pair easily and sound great. X12 pro keep amazing me. Their open design gives a good sound stage when watching TV, and with their long battery life I'm ready for Super Bowl!


----------



## Morbeas

clerkpalmer said:


> I agree that the M2 is a solid choice but they are overpriced at $250.  For $150ish, based on what I have tested, I would look at the RHA True Connect and the Bose Soundsport Free.  If you need isolation, RHA is the better choice.  RHA also supports AAC over iPhone despite what their marketing materials state.  The Sonly SPN  700N is another very good option at that price.  If you put a gun to my head at that price point, I'm picking the RHA.



There are quite a few reviews on Amazon stating the RHA connection isn't very stable. Especially one reviewer who said to stay away if you're a commuter (I am). Also it doesn't look like Amazon even sells them anymore?


----------



## Morbeas

WesennTony said:


> Bad call quality, even in quiet environment. Earin M2 and MW07 win handily for this. Also I was not able to pair Air-X with a BT transmitter to watch TV, probably due to the new chipset and stereo plus thing. M2 (AptX) and Sabbat X12 pro (AAC) pair easily and sound great. X12 pro keep amazing me. Their open design gives a good sound stage when watching TV, and with their long battery life I'm ready for Super Bowl!



This is very unfortunate indeed. I was seriously thinking about pulling the trigger on the Mavins. Are you using them with an Android or iOS device?


----------



## clerkpalmer

Morbeas said:


> There are quite a few reviews on Amazon stating the RHA connection isn't very stable. Especially one reviewer who said to stay away if you're a commuter (I am). Also it doesn't look like Amazon even sells them anymore?



Early units had issues. Mine were perfect.


----------



## Morbeas

clerkpalmer said:


> Early units had issues. Mine were perfect.



So where do you buy them?


----------



## clerkpalmer

Morbeas said:


> So where do you buy them?


Audio46.  10 percent off with code welcome10


----------



## Morbeas

clerkpalmer said:


> Audio46.  10 percent off with code welcome10



Thanks. It seems they're out of stock. Are you able to connect to your TV with them?


----------



## clerkpalmer

Morbeas said:


> Thanks. It seems they're out of stock. Are you able to connect to your TV with them?


I never tried but I don’t see why not.


----------



## clerkpalmer

turbobb said:


> So... I was going to reply re: the features near and dear to some and yada, yada, yada, but we can surely debate that ad nauseam. Bottom line, don't worry about what others want, after all it's not your money they're spending...   As long as you enjoy what you like that's all that matters. The moment you see "It's gotta have this or that..." skip, move on.
> 
> Anyways, back on topic:  ATH-SPORT7TW - was about to chuck these out the window as the touch control on left side was acting up. A single touch is supposed to be volume up and double-tap volume down but every single tap would invoke hear-through (which is only supposed to activate by touching for at least 2 seconds). Quite aggravating to say the least especially as I was trying to get a good fit on my left ear (CP350 med FTW...) but after leaving it alone for about 5 min or so and now it's behaving properly... Go figure
> 
> ...



Just got mine today too. Initial impressions are they are decidedly “meh” on the sq.  I’d put them behind RHA and Bose. Maybe on par or slightly better than Elite65t.  It’s fine but not sure these are competive at 200. Fit wise they are pretty good. With the wings these suckers aren’t going anywhere. Will give them a longer test and report back. I see the sabbat pro is on Newegg for 65. Do I want these guys? The blue is a little flashy.


----------



## chinmie (Jan 31, 2019)

Morbeas said:


> As a follow up, if SQ isn't of paramount importance and you have an iPhone, does it make sense to just get a pair of AirPods?



you could buy 3 or 4 unit of sabbat X12 pro for that price, and with better battery and sound, and controls too



hifi80sman said:


> What about the Sabbat E12?  Pretty well received here.
> https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07LCQ6ZRP/
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/goi...re-we-there-yet.861024/page-302#post-14738511
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/goi...re-we-there-yet.861024/page-246#post-14696991



given that i like the X12 very much, i might have purchase the E12, but i will wait for now, as i have already have more than enough, and the Mifo o5 is basically on par with it in tech and price. i do still curious about the E12 sound though..

i had an audio meet with a friend (50 something audiophile who pays hundreds of dollars for a cable sort of fellow, and i trust his taste in gears). usually he scoffed at my interest in TWS, but yesterday he took a listen to the Mifo o5, and immediately bought the Pro version the very next day and liking it. that says quite a lot for the TWS progress these days. now that TWS has break the barrier usable of battery life (more than 7 hours is plenty), i suspect the next race would be in the driver tech. I'm hoping they would try different materials and multi drivers so consumers can have more options


----------



## clerkpalmer

chinmie said:


> you could buy 3 or 4 unit of sabbat X12 pro for that price, and with better battery and sound, and controls too
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Sorry if I missed it. What’s the difference between e12 and x12 pro?


----------



## chinmie

clerkpalmer said:


> Sorry if I missed it. What’s the difference between e12 and x12 pro?



x12 is open isolation like earbuds or airpods, while the E12 is like traditional in ears with silicone tips (passive isolation)


----------



## clerkpalmer

chinmie said:


> x12 is open isolation like earbuds or airpods, while the E12 is like traditional in ears with silicone tips (passive isolation)


Thanks - hard to keep up with all of these.


----------



## SteveKiwi

For those in New Zealand,  Noel Leemings currently have 25% off the price of the Sennheiser MTW.
At $378 vs Sennheiser's list price of $550 I just couldn't resist


----------



## hifi80sman

SteveKiwi said:


> For those in New Zealand,  Noel Leemings currently have 25% off the price of the Sennheiser MTW.
> At $378 vs Sennheiser's list price of $550 I just couldn't resist


Interested in your feedback.

Also, you guys are getting ripped off there at a list price of $550 ($380 USD)!  The sale price of $378 ($261 USD) is pretty good though.


----------



## rahmeleon

Hi All

I've been following this thread with great interest. I finally bought the Elite Active 65t yesterday and overall a really enjoyable experience.
I have an S8 phone that they are paired to.
I have not tried to pair them to the Tab S2, or any laptops.
These are my first bluetooth headsets.

I find the sound fine. Not brilliant, but enjoyable enough. I am surprised, and I like it 
Every time I have put the buds in they just connect. No dropouts that I have experienced. More on that below.
I get a bit of hiss sometimes... but I am yet to discover what causes it. I think it might just be the hearthrough.
The ambient passthrough/hearthrough is tinnier than I expected, and I would have liked to be able to amplify it louder, but overall, it allows me to pretty much just leave the buds in my ears. In a street environment talking to someone, it is easier to just pull the bud out. (On that point, it's a bit odd that you can only have the right bud working solo. Why would you not have it so that both right and left can work as solo? I realise the button configuration would possibly need to be redone to accommodate this, but why would they have missed this use case?)
Buds lasted 5hrs before they gave me a low battery warning at 10%. I had HearThrough turned on most of the time.
And after an 1hr they were recharged.

I also get a little bit of quiet clicking, popping, hissing sometimes when I interact with the phone. I don't know if this is connection dropout (first bluetooth headset, so I am not sure what to expect) but it's odd. And again, not something I can replicate. But it's only been a day. And I think I could live with it.

However, my biggest gripe is the microphone/microphones. One of my main reasons for going fully wireless was the ability to make calls fully wireless. And these buds are supposed to have a 4 mic array (2 on each bud) for, supposedly, excellent call quality.

First call I made was in a car and the missus thought I was clear, so I was happy.
Later that day, I got a call in the car whilst passengers were talking and the radio was on, and the caller could barely make out what I was saying.
So afterwards, I left myself some voicemails and was pretty disappointed. The mics seems no better than any of the wired headsets I have used in the past, in fact it seemed worse than some.
I tried the trick of bringing the left bud to my mouth and it was still not great.
The mics pick up loads of other noises and wind as well and just don't seem to pick up my voice.

This in turn made me wonder if the tinny "hear through" is because the microphones are a bit stuffed?

I really like everything else about these buds, but if I can't have a conversation using them, they'll have to go back.

So, I have 3 questions:
1) Is this a common problem with the Elite Active 65t?
2) Can anyone suggest some tests I can do with the microphone?
3) Do others have a tinny hear-through sound?

Cheers


----------



## SteveKiwi

hifi80sman said:


> Interested in your feedback.
> 
> Also, you guys are getting ripped off there at a list price of $550 ($380 USD)!  The sale price of $378 ($261 USD) is pretty good though.


Oh yes we know we are

We have a scarcity of places that sell decent headphones/iem's too.


----------



## BigZ12

I have a little problem with the Senn' MTWs.
I am usually blessed with ear canals who fits all in-ear headphones. The likes of Soundmagic E11/E80, Beats X and so on, fits so "snug" that I can sleep on the side with them. Laying the ear on the pillow without noticing.
So, the problem with MTWs? They go too far in the ear, and block the microphone for both the transparent mode and phone use.
I always need to place them carefully, and testing the transparent mode before use. (to know if the mic isn't blocked)

And as a side-note; where the f is the firmware update we were promised?
I have also wrote a well explained mail regarding the so-called "SBC noise" in the left channel (NFMI - SBC discussion we had). NO answers.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

BigZ12 said:


> I have a little problem with the Senn' MTWs.
> I am usually blessed with ear canals who fits all in-ear headphones. The likes of Soundmagic E11/E80, Beats X and so on, fits so "snug" that I can sleep on the side with them. Laying the ear on the pillow without noticing.
> So, the problem with MTWs? They go too far in the ear, and block the microphone for both the transparent mode and phone use.
> I always need to place them carefully, and testing the transparent mode before use. (to know if the mic isn't blocked)
> ...



From my limited experience, the MTW shouldn't drive that deeply into the ear. Like they're literally not designed to do that. They sound best and sit best when they're a touch more on the shallow side.


----------



## BigZ12

SomeGuyDude said:


> From my limited experience, the MTW shouldn't drive that deeply into the ear. Like they're literally not designed to do that. They sound best and sit best when they're a touch more on the shallow side.




I know that, and I can get them to stay as they are meant to be. Using the method shown in the manual.
BUT, in that position I can easily get them a little further in, and then the mic is covered.
I now use a Spinfit (not sure what type) tip I found in the Prostereo H2 box. Size large.
I've also used both a M and L Symbio tip.
All give me the "problem" that I need to test the placement regarding the mic.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

Sounds like the tip is too small for you so you're going deeper to get a seal. I use the L on these and I can use a medium on others.


----------



## BobJS

I confess, I'm a little intrigued about the MTW, but after having picked up the M&D MW07 for $225 at the Best Buy sale my other wireless (Jabra Elite Active, Sony soundsport free) aren't getting any head time, so I guess I'm done for now.  Maybe I should unsubscribe from this thread to avoid temptations ...


----------



## SomeGuyDude

BobJS said:


> I confess, I'm a little intrigued about the MTW, but after having picked up the M&D MW07 for $225 at the Best Buy sale my other wireless (Jabra Elite Active, Sony soundsport free) aren't getting any head time, so I guess I'm done for now.  Maybe I should unsubscribe from this thread to avoid temptations ...



If there's nothing on the MW07 that makes you can "man I wish..." then the MTW isn't gonna offer you anything. They're basically the peak of the tech currently and if one ticks all the boxes for you the other won't be of any benefit.


----------



## kiwikozo

clerkpalmer said:


> I agree that the M2 is a solid choice but they are overpriced at $250.  For $150ish, based on what I have tested, I would look at the RHA True Connect and the Bose Soundsport Free.  If you need isolation, RHA is the better choice.  RHA also supports AAC over iPhone despite what their marketing materials state.  The Sonly SPN  700N is another very good option at that price.  If you put a gun to my head at that price point, I'm picking the RHA.



Wouldn't you say the Sennheiser are equally overpriced at $300? I wouldn't say they're better value than the M2 @ $250. 

I understand though it can be incredibly annoying when there is a big price drop and you miss it + end up purchasing an item at full price. Saying that I would probably still pay full price for the M2. When they eventually bring out an M3 I will definitely snap up a pair like and hope to not be a beta tester like with the MTW pre-order.


----------



## WesennTony

Morbeas said:


> This is very unfortunate indeed. I was seriously thinking about pulling the trigger on the Mavins. Are you using them with an Android or iOS device?


I'm using Android (LG V30) which defaults to AAC codec that I was told to be inferior to IOS's AAC. So I would expect Air-X will perform at least as well in iOS.


----------



## WesennTony

clerkpalmer said:


> Just got mine today too. Initial impressions are they are decidedly “meh” on the sq.  I’d put them behind RHA and Bose. Maybe on par or slightly better than Elite65t.  It’s fine but not sure these are competive at 200. Fit wise they are pretty good. With the wings these suckers aren’t going anywhere. Will give them a longer test and report back. I see the sabbat pro is on Newegg for 65. Do I want these guys? The blue is a little flashy.


You can find the re-branded Sabbat x12 pro on Amazon for about $50, like this

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07DH3D45...olid=3I9RIYXF2JWS6&psc=0&ref_=lv_ov_lig_dp_it


----------



## Rickyearl

kiwikozo said:


> Wouldn't you say the Sennheiser are equally overpriced at $300? I wouldn't say they're better value than the M2 @ $250.
> 
> I understand though it can be incredibly annoying when there is a big price drop and you miss it + end up purchasing an item at full price. Saying that I would probably still pay full price for the M2. When they eventually bring out an M3 I will definitely snap up a pair like and hope to not be a beta tester like with the MTW pre-order.



All of this is totally subjective but I would absolutely buy a “fixed all problems” MTW for $300 over the M2 at $250 without any thought whatsoever.  In most cases, they sound more than $50 better. Same for MW07.  

But at this point there’s no such thing so you have a point.  At least for me, though, the M2 has issues as well. 

My M2 have a constant problem that when I am listening to music and a call comes in, they pause the music but go into transparency mode, and I can barely hear the call. 

The M2 case also sometimes goes “dead” until plugged in momentarily.


----------



## Rickyearl

SomeGuyDude said:


> So because @hifi80sman is a terrible person, I'm taking the MTW for a test drive. I'm about 2 hours deep in and here's my thoughts thus far:
> 
> Compared to the MW07, the MTW is a bit... soft. It's hard to explain, but it feels like there's a slight haze over everything, which is likely just because of not having the sharp treble. The result is closer to the Crossfade 2 Wireless but it gives music a bit less "thwack" to it. Beryllium drivers, man...
> The fit is great. I got the large tips in and they're just snug and happy right there.
> ...


This is fascinating.  I would flip 1-3 100% around.  The MTW is almost too harsh on treble for me-much harsher than the MW07.  The have so much snap that cymbal crashes almost hurt.  And the MTW are both more granular and more fatiguing, both due to the treble and the fit, which is OK but nothing as comfortable as the MW07.


----------



## kiwikozo

Rickyearl said:


> All of this is totally subjective but I would absolutely buy a “fixed all problems” MTW for $300 over the M2 at $250 without any thought whatsoever.  In most cases, they sound more than $50 better. Same for MW07.
> 
> But at this point there’s no such thing so you have a point.  At least for me, though, the M2 has issues as well.
> 
> ...



Sounds like you may have a faulty case, I wouldn't know regarding your second point - I always have transparency mode turned off.

I meant just in terms of the complete product, the MTW definitely do sound more than $50 better but I don't think some of the battery issues could be fixed with firmware updates.


----------



## Edward Ng

Rickyearl said:


> This is fascinating.  I would flip 1-3 100% around.  The MTW is almost too harsh on treble for me-much harsher than the MW07.  The have so much snap that cymbal crashes almost hurt.  And the MTW are both more granular and more fatiguing, both due to the treble and the fit, which is OK but nothing as comfortable as the MW07.


Have you played with different tips?

-Ed


----------



## SomeGuyDude

Rickyearl said:


> This is fascinating.  I would flip 1-3 100% around.  The MTW is almost too harsh on treble for me-much harsher than the MW07.  The have so much snap that cymbal crashes almost hurt.  And the MTW are both more granular and more fatiguing, both due to the treble and the fit, which is OK but nothing as comfortable as the MW07.



That's definitely wild to me. I wonder if you're having fit issues with the MTW, because with a good seal on both the MTW's treble is definitely softer. Or maybe their respective peaks/valleys are just showing how our hearing is different! Either way, both are stunning products, and I admit I'm prooooobably gonna keep the MTW...


----------



## howdy

Rickyearl said:


> This is fascinating.  I would flip 1-3 100% around.  The MTW is almost too harsh on treble for me-much harsher than the MW07.  The have so much snap that cymbal crashes almost hurt.  And the MTW are both more granular and more fatiguing, both due to the treble and the fit, which is OK but nothing as comfortable as the MW07.


To each their own. But I have never read anywhere that describes it your way. I own both and I'm 180 from you. 
Both are great and makes my love for TWS that much more.


----------



## WesennTony (Jan 31, 2019)

Neiman Marcus has 50 off MW07. Only has tortoise shell and blue colors left. Can't resist it and placed the order. Sigh...


----------



## mikp

WesennTony said:


> Keep testing Mavin Air-X.... The silicone stabilizers close my ear chamber a bit more, which makes a slightly smaller sound stage but add a bit more bass impact I was looking for. Good! Then ordered Spinfit CP155 tips. They fit Air-X like a glove. The sound has noticeable changes, but not profound. It becomes more crisp, better instrument separation, and more bass texture. Surprisingly they add a sparkling treble as well, but not so that causes any harshness. So the sound signature slightly shifts from Ath-E70 towards  Sennheiser IE800.
> 
> Bad call quality, even in quiet environment. Earin M2 and MW07 win handily for this. Also I was not able to pair Air-X with a BT transmitter to watch TV, probably due to the new chipset and stereo plus thing. M2 (AptX) and Sabbat X12 pro (AAC) pair easily and sound great. X12 pro keep amazing me. Their open design gives a good sound stage when watching TV, and with their long battery life I'm ready for Super Bowl!



How are them with the spinfit? im waiting for an assortment of them. Strange that they are cheaper on amazon.com, but places I can buy from are more expensive.


----------



## WesennTony (Jan 31, 2019)

mikp said:


> How are them with the spinfit? im waiting for an assortment of them. Strange that they are cheaper on amazon.com, but places I can buy from are more expensive.


The spinfit tips expand the sound stage and frequency range a bit, and also make them more resolving. On the flip side seems make me more fatigue for long-time listening. The fit is perfect, though, and fit into the case without any issue.


----------



## Rickyearl

SomeGuyDude said:


> That's definitely wild to me. I wonder if you're having fit issues with the MTW, because with a good seal on both the MTW's treble is definitely softer. Or maybe their respective peaks/valleys are just showing how our hearing is different! Either way, both are stunning products, and I admit I'm prooooobably gonna keep the MTW...



Pretty sure it's not fit, and certainly not seal.  I love the MTW sound, but it's the dead opposite of softer to me.  MTW is much harsher, more aggressive, more sibilant, more "angry" to use a weird word.  MW07 is smoother, calmer, more blended and soft, just more "chill" overall.  The bass on the MW07 thumps, on the MTW it smacks. If I am pissed off and want to turn something up as loud as it will go, MTW all the way.  

One thing I will note - the EQ on the MTW app makes a huge difference in sound.  Right when I got them I didn't like them - too bloated and muddy.  So I moved the MTW EQ dot about 1/3 up and 1/3 right of center to clean the bass up a bit and the sound just opened up for me.  It's been there ever since.   That might account for some of the difference.



Edward Ng said:


> Have you played with different tips?
> 
> -Ed


Oh yeah.  Spinfits, Spiral dots, Complys, Stock, Kombis.  Really don't change the MTW or MW07 sound drastically - not at all like they do for the M2.


----------



## mikp

WesennTony said:


> The spinfit tips expand the sound stage and frequency range a bit, and also make them more resolving. On the flip side seems make me more fatigue for long-time listening. The fit is perfect, though, and fit into the case without any issue.



Thanks, I like the foams but a little fiddly with tws. Suits better wired buds. Too bad the bore on the mandarins are a little too small so cant compress them when putting it on.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

Rickyearl said:


> Pretty sure it's not fit, and certainly not seal.  I love the MTW sound, but it's the dead opposite of softer to me.  MTW is much harsher, more aggressive, more sibilant, more "angry" to use a weird word.  MW07 is smoother, calmer, more blended and soft, just more "chill" overall.  The bass on the MW07 thumps, on the MTW it smacks. If I am pissed off and want to turn something up as loud as it will go, MTW all the way.
> 
> One thing I will note - the EQ on the MTW app makes a huge difference in sound.  Right when I got them I didn't like them - too bloated and muddy.  So I moved the MTW EQ dot about 1/3 up and 1/3 right of center to clean the bass up a bit and the sound just opened up for me.  It's been there ever since.   That might account for some of the difference.



Yes I would say EQing them might account for the difference lol


----------



## Luchyres (Jan 31, 2019)

Can anyone with the Sabbat X12 or E12 comment on mic quality for phone calls? I end up talking on all of my TWEs - and so this has become a surprisingly important feature to me.

Edit: I retract my earlier excitement for that unit I linked.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

WesennTony said:


> Neiman Marcus has 50 off MW07. Only has tortoise shell and blue colors left. Can't resist it and placed the order. Sigh...



$250 for the MW07 is a pretty sick deal honestly. There aren't many products that are at a premium price that earn it, I really think those do.


----------



## Morbeas

clerkpalmer said:


> The Sonly SPN  700N is another very good option at that price.  If you put a gun to my head at that price point, I'm picking the RHA.


 I just read that the Sony WF-SP700N only allows calls in mono (only from left ear), which is a deal breaker for me.


----------



## chrisbriton

Trying to find the right eartips is becoming an expensive business ! Has anyone used spinfit cp145 tips on the MW07 at all? Wondering if the 4.5mm internal diameter will stay secure or be too loose? 
Is there nowhere at all in the UK that stocks spinfits and other JDM stuff?
Thanks


----------



## Rickyearl

chrisbriton said:


> Trying to find the right eartips is becoming an expensive business ! Has anyone used spinfit cp145 tips on the MW07 at all? Wondering if the 4.5mm internal diameter will stay secure or be too loose?
> Is there nowhere at all in the UK that stocks spinfits and other JDM stuff?
> Thanks


I would stay away from that larger diameter.  My son can testify that even 1/2mm is enough for a tip to be too loose and get lodged in your ear.  That was not fun.


----------



## Rickyearl

SomeGuyDude said:


> Yes I would say EQing them might account for the difference lol


My point was that the MTW app EQ makes huge differences in the sound, not just "tweaks."

And that I forgot about it...


----------



## kiwikozo

chrisbriton said:


> Trying to find the right eartips is becoming an expensive business ! Has anyone used spinfit cp145 tips on the MW07 at all? Wondering if the 4.5mm internal diameter will stay secure or be too loose?
> Is there nowhere at all in the UK that stocks spinfits and other JDM stuff?
> Thanks



I ordered spinfits from amazon.com and they only took a week to arrive in the UK with expedited delivery.


----------



## nc8000

kiwikozo said:


> I ordered spinfits from amazon.com and they only took a week to arrive in the UK with expedited delivery.



So did I and they never turned up


----------



## howdy

chrisbriton said:


> Trying to find the right eartips is becoming an expensive business ! Has anyone used spinfit cp145 tips on the MW07 at all? Wondering if the 4.5mm internal diameter will stay secure or be too loose?
> Is there nowhere at all in the UK that stocks spinfits and other JDM stuff?
> Thanks


I'm on the same quest. I'm using Spinfits CP100 on the MW07 and they are close but not perfect. I also ordered the Symbio, I'm still waiting for these. 
I feel like putting the MW07 in my ear and using that expanding foam and covering my whole ear with it.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

Further observations for the Senn MTW:

Passed the gym test with flying colors. 2 hours and still in the 40s, playing at high volume. I actually haven't hit a "low battery" warning with them at all yet.
Still hate the touch controls. In particular the volume change. 

I think my brain has "adjusted" to the frequency curve because they sound a lot more detailed than I felt at first. Brain burn-in is a thing, kiddos.
Yeah I'm ignoring the battery reports in the app. I had one earbud listed at 100% and the other at 62% then an hour went by and the two were now at 75% and 59%. I do not at all think the app is good at reading the individual earpieces. 

Microphone suuuuucks. I've had a few people say I sound like I'm talking through a desk fan with it.
App sucks, too. The EQ is worthless because there's like this weird threshold to the adjustments. I want to give it a little nudge but if I don't go far enough it just pops back to default. No big deal, I'm not EQ'ing them anyway. No need.
In relation to #3, MW07 still wins on separation and space rather handily, and I'd definitely say the MW07 will win for anyone who listens to more "delicate" music. For metal and hip-hop, the thicker sound of the MTW is starting to win me over.
Now I'm wanting the HD1 or whatever the next Senn over-ear wireless is...


----------



## Quad Dac

Got the Mifo O5 (non-pro version), Funcl Al and Edifier W2 this week.

Mifo O5 case looks so premium. Quite heavy in the pocket tho. The earphones are comfy to wear and I get a really good seal with them. They sound boring and a bit congested. The button layout is stupid. 

Funcl Al has aptx and sound better than the Mifo. They look silly to wear.

Edifier are massive. They stick out a lot. Look like Frankenstein's bolts sticking out of your ears. They are bass heavy.

Getting the MTW in the mail tomorrow or Monday. So probably all 3 and my other TWS won't get much used.


----------



## chrisbriton

howdy said:


> I'm on the same quest. I'm using Spinfits CP100 on the MW07 and they are close but not perfect. I also ordered the Symbio, I'm still waiting for these.
> I feel like putting the MW07 in my ear and using that expanding foam and covering my whole ear with it.


I’ve got to the same point as you, small CP100’s seem to be doing the best job so far but fancy one last punt on cp145. I must have some skinny arkward ear canals. No luck with symbio N or cp100z for me


----------



## howdy

SomeGuyDude said:


> Further observations for the Senn MTW:
> 
> Passed the gym test with flying colors. 2 hours and still in the 40s, playing at high volume. I actually haven't hit a "low battery" warning with them at all yet.
> Still hate the touch controls. In particular the volume change.
> ...


They are great (Senns)once you adjust to them. 
I have the Sennheiser PXC550 and absolutely love the sound of them as well. They are extremely comfortable for my big head and don't get hot, they also have 30 hours battery life.


----------



## kiwikozo

So the Earin M2 has a power button..... I swear I must have activated it by mistake.

It's touch but works well - for those rare disconnection moments instead of putting them back in the case handy to just turn on and off again.


----------



## Edward Ng

Completely random thought: portable audio technology has come a surprisingly long way in less than a decade. I was absolutely shocked at the improvement in sound quality when flipping back and forth between my old Sennheiser IE8i IEMs and my Momentum True Wireless buds. The difference in clarity and transparency is literally several leagues better, all the more amazing considering the MSRP of the MTW is lower than that of my IE8i by a vast margin, and on top of the sound transducers, also have integrated microphones, microchips, radios, batteries and amplifiers. It is really mind-blowing, to be honest. Then even comparing against my Westone 4, while the clarity and transparency are equal, the bass extension is completely no comparison. Bass drums have zero authority on my Westone 4 versus their clear and obvious presence on the MTW. So much more air at the top end, too. We have sure come a long, long way in less than a decade in the portable audio space!

-Ed


----------



## clerkpalmer

Further impressions in at sports. I was probably a little hasty yesterday. I’ve been using MW07 and mTw and LCD2c at work so my ears have been spoiled. After a full gym session I would rate the sq above average. They are musical and a bit warm. I agree the bass is a little loose but it’s not ridiculous like Sony. Treble definitely rolled off. They don’t get super loud for those who care about that. 

On the bright side isolation and fit maybe the best I’ve tried. These things lock in and do not so much as move a mm. Isolation is superb for passive noise.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

Edward Ng said:


> Completely random thought: portable audio technology has come a surprisingly long way in less than a decade. I was absolutely shocked at the improvement in sound quality when flipping back and forth between my old Sennheiser IE8i IEMs and my Momentum True Wireless buds. The difference in clarity and transparency is literally several leagues better, all the more amazing considering the MSRP of the MTW is lower than that of my IE8i by a vast margin, and on top of the sound transducers, also have integrated microphones, microchips, radios, batteries and amplifiers. It is really mind-blowing, to be honest. Then even comparing against my Westone 4, while the clarity and transparency are equal, the bass extension is completely no comparison. Bass drums have zero authority on my Westone 4 versus their clear and obvious presence on the MTW. So much more air at the top end, too. We have sure come a long, long way in less than a decade in the portable audio space!
> 
> -Ed



Remember when the Parrot Zik was the "premium" bluetooth headset out there? It's pretty amazing how far we've come.


----------



## llmgtab

kiwikozo said:


> Sounds like you may have a faulty case



Hi - long time lurker of this thread. I have been using the M2's since September and I am on my third case. The first two stopped holding a charge completely, only worked while plugged in. They had no issues replacing them for me. May be worth putting a ticket with support.


----------



## hifi80sman

SomeGuyDude said:


> That's definitely wild to me. I wonder if you're having fit issues with the MTW, because with a good seal on both the MTW's treble is definitely softer. Or maybe their respective peaks/valleys are just showing how our hearing is different! Either way, both are stunning products, and I admit I'm prooooobably gonna keep the MTW...


LOL!  This is like The Bachelor, but with TWEs.  What's the next episode have in store?!


----------



## chinmie

SomeGuyDude said:


> and I admit I'm prooooobably gonna keep the MTW...



what happened to the "i can only keep one" ? 
i reckon if it changed your mind then the MTW is good. i haven't got a chance to try them yet


----------



## firewatersun

chrisbriton said:


> I’ve got to the same point as you, small CP100’s seem to be doing the best job so far but fancy one last punt on cp145. I must have some skinny arkward ear canals. No luck with symbio N or cp100z for me



I have had really good results with the Sony Triple Comforts.

They're a blend of foam and silicon, it's the comfort of foam with the ease of use of silicon. They also seem to be pretty durable (not as much as silicon, but stronger than foam)

The only place I could find them was on eBay from Japan, seller called akihibarashopping did the best deal.

I use two different sizes in each ear so it was rather pricy, put you get 2 pairs of a single size for 15-16 euro


----------



## nc8000

kiwikozo said:


> So the Earin M2 has a power button..... I swear I must have activated it by mistake.
> 
> It's touch but works well - for those rare disconnection moments instead of putting them back in the case handy to just turn on and off again.



Power button ???
I’ve just got an orange led light.


----------



## turbobb

clerkpalmer said:


> Further impressions in at sports. I was probably a little hasty yesterday. I’ve been using MW07 and mTw and LCD2c at work so my ears have been spoiled. After a full gym session I would rate the sq above average. They are musical and a bit warm. I agree the bass is a little loose but it’s not ridiculous like Sony. Treble definitely rolled off. They don’t get super loud for those who care about that.
> 
> On the bright side isolation and fit maybe the best I’ve tried. These things lock in and do not so much as move a mm. Isolation is superb for passive noise.



Totally agree that these things are like leaches deeply embedded in flesh once they're in. I thought it was a bizarre design at first but the hooks at the top that go into the fossa do a really good job of keeping them firmly in place. While I really don't care about looks but these things really are goofy looking - not quite Frankenstein bolts but not a stretch to describe them that way either. Curious about your comment about loose bass for Sony - which model?  Reason I ask is I feel the WI-1000X is absolutely solid in this regard (no flab at all).  As for volume, are you on Android? If so, have you independently adjusted the volume to max? Also any issues with the hear-through turning on by themselves? My set is still having issue in this regard. Will just randomly turn on or off on its own.

The app is interesting in that it allows you to swap the controls between left and right buds but no EQ app.


----------



## clerkpalmer

turbobb said:


> Totally agree that these things are like leaches deeply embedded in flesh once they're in. I thought it was a bizarre design at first but the hooks at the top that go into the fossa do a really good job of keeping them firmly in place. While I really don't care about looks but these things really are goofy looking - not quite Frankenstein bolts but not a stretch to describe them that way either. Curious about your comment about loose bass for Sony - which model?  Reason I ask is I feel the WI-1000X is absolutely solid in this regard (no flab at all).  As for volume, are you on Android? If so, have you independently adjusted the volume to max? Also any issues with the hear-through turning on by themselves? My set is still having issue in this regard. Will just randomly turn on or off on its own.
> 
> The app is interesting in that it allows you to swap the controls between left and right buds but no EQ app.


Using iOS. I did not independently raise the volume too max. Plenty loud for me. As for the bass, my reference was to the sp700n. I had to use those on bright to tone down the bass. I give AT a B for sq and an A for design and fit. I didn’t think they looked too bad once in the ears. Worse than MW07 but no worse than MTW. 

Real issue is not sure I would ever grab these over MTW over MW07. I guess for heavy sweat probably. 

It’s a good time to be into headphones for sure. Embarrassment of riches.


----------



## RobinFood (Feb 1, 2019)

Just got the Nuarl  NT01AX....OMG, my mind is blown away by them at the moment. They look absolutely stunning and sound. They remind me of my of my ER4XR, it's hard to believe that they are wireless...tons of details, a realistic soundstage, and a bass slightly above pure neutral. Listening to live albums now to test them properly, and you can hear the reverb in the halls they are playing. Excellent separation between the singers and the instruments. Everything sounds beautiful and realistic.

That said, the box they came in can go to hell. They were fixed to thin cardboard, and I accidentally ripped them out, and I am being paranoid about damaging the nozzle cosmetically. I shouldn't worry about that, since it is not much worse than pulling off a tight eartip, is it?! The carrying box is also meh. It has a small button that opens a latch and feels kind of cheap. The button is super hard to push with long-ish nails too. that being said it is small. If you have any questions ask me. I will probably get a better review up after playing with for a while.

Edit: Can't stop listening...Nuarl motto is natural and neutral, HDSS is a certification that the sound has as little coloring as possible. That is my preffered sound sig, so keep that in mind, but based on first few hours I like the sound of these even more than the MW07s I demo-ed a few weeks ago...amazing high mids and highs, great bass when called for (Killshot bass drop sounded amazing), and very nice detailed mids. The interface is clunky so far (not used to it), but I love the sound coming out of this tiny driver!


----------



## Python002

Sorry for the dumb question. Can I use the mw07 with a hiby r3 or a Sony wm1a? Thank you.


----------



## howdy

Python002 said:


> Sorry for the dumb question. Can I use the mw07 with a hiby r3 or a Sony wm1a? Thank you.


Absolutely


----------



## chinmie

RobinFood said:


> Just got the Nuarl  NT01AX....OMG, my mind is blown away by them at the moment. They look absolutely stunning and sound. They remind me of my of my ER4XR, it's hard to believe that they are wireless...tons of details, a realistic soundstage, and a bass slightly above pure neutral. Listening to live albums now to test them properly, and you can hear the reverb in the halls they are playing. Excellent separation between the singers and the instruments. Everything sounds beautiful and realistic.
> 
> That said, the box they came in can go to hell. They were fixed to thin cardboard, and I accidentally ripped them out, and I am being paranoid about damaging the nozzle cosmetically. I shouldn't worry about that, since it is not much worse than pulling off a tight eartip, is it?! The carrying box is also meh. It has a small button that opens a latch and feels kind of cheap. The button is super hard to push with long-ish nails too. that being said it is small. If you have any questions ask me. I will probably get a better review up after playing with for a while.
> 
> Edit: Can't stop listening...Nuarl motto is natural and neutral, HDSS is a certification that the sound has as little coloring as possible. That is my preffered sound sig, so keep that in mind, but based on first few hours I like the sound of these even more than the MW07s I demo-ed a few weeks ago...amazing high mids and highs, great bass when called for (Killshot bass drop sounded amazing), and very nice detailed mids. The interface is clunky so far (not used to it), but I love the sound coming out of this tiny driver!



interesting, as i love the ety sound too


----------



## jeffri

Just found out the brochure for the Fostex TM2. They doesn't seem to include a case with additional battery, but they include a charging cradle which seems to be able to fit most IEM. And more importantly, the 12 hours battery is huge. Of course the aptX and True Wireless Plus support is good to have.

I think this is definitely a purchase for me. Just hoping that the hiss won't be much, but even if it is, I can still find some less sensitive dynamic IEM to pair with it.


----------



## clerkpalmer

jeffri said:


> I think this is definitely a purchase for me. Just hoping that the hiss won't be much, but even if it is, I can still find some less sensitive dynamic IEM to pair with it.



Yep. Me too. Looks like a high quality product.


----------



## Rickyearl

llmgtab said:


> Hi - long time lurker of this thread. I have been using the M2's since September and I am on my third case. The first two stopped holding a charge completely, only worked while plugged in. They had no issues replacing them for me. May be worth putting a ticket with support.



Yeah, if it keeps up I will pull a ticket and then sell them on case replacement.  I'm tired of the build issues with these things, and unlike the MTW, the M2 don't sound good enough to ride them out.


----------



## smaragd

RobinFood said:


> Just got the Nuarl  NT01AX....OMG, my mind is blown away by them at the moment. They look absolutely stunning and sound. They remind me of my of my ER4XR, it's hard to believe that they are wireless...tons of details, a realistic soundstage, and a bass slightly above pure neutral. Listening to live albums now to test them properly, and you can hear the reverb in the halls they are playing. Excellent separation between the singers and the instruments. Everything sounds beautiful and realistic.
> 
> That said, the box they came in can go to hell. They were fixed to thin cardboard, and I accidentally ripped them out, and I am being paranoid about damaging the nozzle cosmetically. I shouldn't worry about that, since it is not much worse than pulling off a tight eartip, is it?! The carrying box is also meh. It has a small button that opens a latch and feels kind of cheap. The button is super hard to push with long-ish nails too. that being said it is small. If you have any questions ask me. I will probably get a better review up after playing with for a while.
> 
> Edit: Can't stop listening...Nuarl motto is natural and neutral, HDSS is a certification that the sound has as little coloring as possible. That is my preffered sound sig, so keep that in mind, but based on first few hours I like the sound of these even more than the MW07s I demo-ed a few weeks ago...amazing high mids and highs, great bass when called for (Killshot bass drop sounded amazing), and very nice detailed mids. The interface is clunky so far (not used to it), but I love the sound coming out of this tiny driver!


Show us some close ups and how they fit in your ears.


----------



## Luchyres

clerkpalmer said:


> Yep. Me too. Looks like a high quality product.


I like the look of these as well. Only issue is I just sold all of my IEMs except my favorite pair (they permanently stay connected to my ES100 with a balanced cable) so I really need to consider these Fostex as being +$X00 more expensive as I know myself, and I will likely buy a $200+ IEM for them (I may control my urges and get something cheap) - so the Fostex end up being far, far more expensive than they look at first blush. 

That being said, I've caved on waiting for the QC5000 series for my next TWEs - Ordered the Sabbat E12 Pro to try to hold me over until the new chips start showing up (hopefully in multiple forms). My main hope is that the Sabbat will have decent call quality - if not, they'll likely go right back. What am I doing with my life?


----------



## jeffri

Personally, I'm just probably going to use my existing IEM collection (some that haven't had much use). Probably a good fit with FX850 or Nova. But if the hiss is low, might as well just use it with my U12. Haha...


----------



## hifi80sman

RobinFood said:


> Just got the Nuarl  NT01AX....OMG, my mind is blown away by them at the moment. They look absolutely stunning and sound. They remind me of my of my ER4XR, it's hard to believe that they are wireless...tons of details, a realistic soundstage, and a bass slightly above pure neutral. Listening to live albums now to test them properly, and you can hear the reverb in the halls they are playing. Excellent separation between the singers and the instruments. Everything sounds beautiful and realistic.
> 
> That said, the box they came in can go to hell. They were fixed to thin cardboard, and I accidentally ripped them out, and I am being paranoid about damaging the nozzle cosmetically. I shouldn't worry about that, since it is not much worse than pulling off a tight eartip, is it?! The carrying box is also meh. It has a small button that opens a latch and feels kind of cheap. The button is super hard to push with long-ish nails too. that being said it is small. If you have any questions ask me. I will probably get a better review up after playing with for a while.
> 
> Edit: Can't stop listening...Nuarl motto is natural and neutral, HDSS is a certification that the sound has as little coloring as possible. That is my preffered sound sig, so keep that in mind, but based on first few hours I like the sound of these even more than the MW07s I demo-ed a few weeks ago...amazing high mids and highs, great bass when called for (Killshot bass drop sounded amazing), and very nice detailed mids. The interface is clunky so far (not used to it), but I love the sound coming out of this tiny driver!


Because of your post, I just ordered the near-clone, ROMEO 07R, that uses the QCC3001 chipset (AAC).  We'll see how these bad boys sound!


----------



## webvan

The Romeo 07R is indeed very close in terms of design other than the button placement but it uses the QCC3001 chipset instead of the QCC3026, so aptX apparently ? The Romeo are only rated at 5.5 hours vs 10 apparently for the NT01AX so that's a big difference !


----------



## Spamateur (Feb 1, 2019)

WesennTony said:


> The spinfit tips expand the sound stage and frequency range a bit, and also make them more resolving. On the flip side seems make me more fatigue for long-time listening. The fit is perfect, though, and fit into the case without any issue.



I've experimented with the Spinfit CP155 as well. I bought both Medium and Large. With the medium I the sound became slightly more V-shaped, the bass became boomier and the mids lost a bit of the subtle bloom while the treble seemed a tad harsh. These were subtle but noticeable changes, and I preferred the stock tips. However, with the large spinfits the sound seems a bit closer to the stock oval tips. Perhaps because they're a tad longer? Hard to tell. The large fit much better than the stock eartips for me, but I notice if I wiggle my ears they get "blocked" and sound muffled much easier than the stock tips, probably due to the flexible portion near the tips of the Spinfits.

EDIT: One sidenote: I find with the spinfits I can't slide them all the way down the nozzle of the Air-X as they simply won't fit my ears properly otherwise. I have to leave them about halfway off to get a good degree of insertion.


----------



## hifi80sman

webvan said:


> The Romeo 07R is indeed very close in terms of design other than the button placement but it uses the QCC3001 chipset instead of the QCC3026, so aptX apparently ? The Romeo are only rated at 5.5 hours vs 10 apparently for the NT01AX so that's a big difference !


Yeah, there's no aptX, but I primarily care about AAC mostly, since my main source is an iPhone Xs Max.  I have a secondary s8 I use, however.

The button placement of the NT01AX is better, but if the buttons aren't too stiff, it'll work out fine for me.  It almost looks like the Romeo 07R comes with Spinfit tips...


----------



## hifi80sman

Just got this confirmation from Sennheiser regarding the next firmware update for the MTW:


----------



## chrisbriton

firewatersun said:


> I have had really good results with the Sony Triple Comforts.
> 
> They're a blend of foam and silicon, it's the comfort of foam with the ease of use of silicon. They also seem to be pretty durable (not as much as silicon, but stronger than foam)
> 
> ...



Any idea how the size of the triple comfort tips compare to the spinfits please?


----------



## turbobb

clerkpalmer said:


> ...I give AT a B for sq and an A for design and fit. I didn’t think they looked too bad once in the ears. Worse than MW07 but no worse than MTW. ... It’s a good time to be into headphones for sure. Embarrassment of riches.


Indeed! Have you had any issues with the hear-through activating on its own? I've probably spent more time turning the thing off because it keeps turning itself on. It's not consistent so I can't figure out what's causing it. I've even used the app to swap the button functions (though the hear-through stays on left side) but it didn't help. These are likely going back due to that.



RobinFood said:


> Just got the Nuarl  NT01AX...


Thanks for your impressions! While they're sold on Amazon US, I'm hesitant to order given they'll need to go back to JP in case service is required. Really wish they had local presence here.



hifi80sman said:


> ...I just ordered the near-clone, ROMEO 07R...


Sadly I had to return these but as far as all the Chi-Fi TWEs I've tried go, this and the Mpow T5's had top notch SQ but both suffered from constant disconnects (especially the T5). They did a little better when used with iPhone 7+ but alas, the V30 is my primary and I had lots of issues staying connected with that. Lemme know if you run into any connection issues (hopefully not seeing you have XS Max). I do think you'll be really pleased by SQ. 

My latest trials with other Chi-Fi units is the iansean T1s while they are cheap, the SQ and build reflects that. The pair I got suffers from really poor battery life (only a little over an hour). Also, this statement on the product page is misleading "Completely AAC compatible, these earbuds will play AAC files at their full quality." as it implies it has AAC codec... it doesn't. Wouldn't be an issue if their SBC implementation was good but it's not.


----------



## RobinFood

smaragd said:


> Show us some close ups and how they fit in your ears.



Here are some pics. I'm not really good at taking pics though.







 


 


 

I am really enjoying them. Kept them at my bedside and woke up to music this morning.
I compared them to my ER4XRs, and they have a little more bass (still not hindering the mids in any way), and a little more high mids and high sparkle. Violins sound amazing, as do female vocals on the NT01s. Male vocals sound better on the ER4XRs, and the ER4XRs have that extra BA clearness that is hard to describe. Clearer vocals on the ER4XR, but without comparing them one next to the other, I thought they sounded very similar.
They stick out quite a bit. The face plate looks metallic, but to the touch it is smooth plastic...almost feels like acrylic. I saw many pictures but in real life they look different somehow.
The case is small and light, but no magnets. The earphones start charging when you close the case because the lid pushes down on the earphones. Not my favorite design, feels kind of cheap.


----------



## firewatersun

chrisbriton said:


> Any idea how the size of the triple comfort tips compare to the spinfits please?



Unfortunately never used Spinfits, but I have used Symbio Mandarin-E if that's any help. The TripleComfort M are about the same size, and the S are smaller than the Symbio S.

Thing is because the TripleComforts are foam-silicon blend, a larger size will still squish in pretty comfortably in my experience, but YMMV.


----------



## BigZ12 (Feb 1, 2019)

hifi80sman said:


> Just got this confirmation from Sennheiser regarding the next firmware update for the MTW:


What?
What did you send to Sennheiser? What issues did you address?
Is this the same firmware update they promised me in January? Version 1.24?
If so... this makes me VERY disappointed!


----------



## SomeGuyDude

Sadly I have parted ways with the MW07 (again). I've seen no charging issues on my MTWs and they were perfect in the gym, plus they seem so damn well suited for metal.


----------



## clerkpalmer

SomeGuyDude said:


> Sadly I have parted ways with the MW07 (again). I've seen no charging issues on my MTWs and they were perfect in the gym, plus they seem so damn well suited for metal.


Lol. You’ll buy them (again) soon enough.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

clerkpalmer said:


> Lol. You’ll buy them (again) soon enough.



LMAO what sucks is you're probably right. Depending on the MTW firmware update and if anyone comes out with another big one.

I'm keeping an eye out for other brands to try and break in. If VModa does a high-end TWE that could be game over for me.


----------



## chinmie

update on the mifo o5 standard vs the pro:
mids detail is similar between them both, but the pro version has a cut out bass and treble extension, while the standard goes deeper down and also more sparkle on treble. also the standard has a much louder volume top limit.

physically, the only difference by looking at the unit is that the standard has black nozzle mesh, while the pro has metal mesh)

i personally think (at least for my preference) the standard version is a much better deal


----------



## Luchyres

SomeGuyDude said:


> LMAO what sucks is you're probably right. Depending on the MTW firmware update and if anyone comes out with another big one.
> 
> I'm keeping an eye out for other brands to try and break in. If VModa does a high-end TWE that could be game over for me.



I'd back you up in an email request to V-moda in a heartbeat (though their wireless earbuds thus far haven't had quite the same quality of sound as the Crossfade line). At the very least, I bet we'd be interested by the aesthetics of the product.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

Luchyres said:


> I'd back you up in an email request to V-moda in a heartbeat (though their wireless earbuds thus far haven't had quite the same quality of sound as the Crossfade line). At the very least, I bet we'd be interested by the aesthetics of the product.



I admit I haven't tried any of their in-ears at all since aaaaaages back before VModa was considered an actual "audiophile" brand. That said, I really think they could pull it off if they went for it.


----------



## turbobb

RobinFood said:


> Not my favorite design, feels kind of cheap.


It's the same design with the Romeo and if that lid ever falls apart, one will have to get creative with a velcro loop in order to charge the earbuds. I also don't like that the lid sort of scratches the buds when you're closing them to apply the pressure for charging as I'd imagine that will impact the finish long term.


----------



## hifi80sman

turbobb said:


> Sadly I had to return these but as far as all the Chi-Fi TWEs I've tried go, this and the Mpow T5's had top notch SQ but both suffered from constant disconnects (especially the T5). They did a little better when used with iPhone 7+ but alas, the V30 is my primary and I had lots of issues staying connected with that. Lemme know if you run into any connection issues (hopefully not seeing you have XS Max). I do think you'll be really pleased by SQ.


Now I'm looking forward to it even more!  I'll post some feedback on here once I've tested it for a few.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

Anyone else feel like the TWE market is really exciting and unpredictable right now? I love that it doesn't really have any "established" brands per se. Even with the likes of Jabra and Sony around, everyone's still essentially on their first models. I can only wonder where we'll be in a year...


----------



## turbobb

@SomeGuyDude - Indeed! While some of these initial offerings might have missed a mark here or there but overall it'll only continue to improve. Some of the big guys like the aforementioned V-Moda as well as Shure, AKG (albeit JBL is their sub), Blue, Audeze have yet to enter the fray so I can only imagine it getting better. I hope by year's end, they'll sort out the whole TWS/TWS+ issues, and get Adaptive aptX off the ground. Maybe even open-back or planar TWEs (doubtful on the latter given how hard they are to drive).


----------



## howdy

Anyone have a fix for connection issues with Jaybird Run. I tried the hard reset and it did nothing to help. I trying to sell them but it's a slow go.


----------



## clerkpalmer

SomeGuyDude said:


> Anyone else feel like the TWE market is really exciting and unpredictable right now? I love that it doesn't really have any "established" brands per se. Even with the likes of Jabra and Sony around, everyone's still essentially on their first models. I can only wonder where we'll be in a year...


I got the bragi dash immediately upon release.  I can’t even remember when but it was probably 3 years ago.  They were ahead of their time. Jabra killed it with the elite sport. That was the best of the first ones. 

We’ve come a long way since then. The new tw from advanced sound launch on inidiegogo soon. Very interested in those. It’s a good time to be a consumer.


----------



## AnakChan

I’m finally getting an opportunity to listen to the Senn Momentum TW. I’m quite surprised how dark they sound. Whilst I could get used to it over time, it wouldn’t be my first choice sonically (for _my_ tastes).

I’m still on the Jabra Elite 65t but sonically it’s been the MW07 that still grabs me.


----------



## RobinFood

Im completely crushed. The Nuarls had a good connection at home and in the city, but completely unusable in Osaka downtown or at train stations.

Guess I need a class 1 bluetooth device...anyone with the Mavins in a crowded city? How do they hold up?


----------



## smaragd

RobinFood said:


> Im completely crushed. The Nuarls had a good connection at home and in the city, but completely unusable in Osaka downtown or at train stations.
> 
> Guess I need a class 1 bluetooth device...anyone with the Mavins in a crowded city? How do they hold up?


I was afraid you were going to write this... 
having tried many TWE myself and having the same issue in busy crowded HongKong I’m pleased to confirm that the Sabbat E12 Pro performs well in that regard. Travelling back home by train yesterday I didn’t have any disconnections at all... contrary to the Pamuscroll I tried before where the left bud keeps dropping out near stations with lots of BT and WiFi interference . Even the Shure BT2 sometimes cuts out.


----------



## hifi80sman (Feb 2, 2019)

SomeGuyDude said:


> Anyone else feel like the TWE market is really exciting and unpredictable right now? I love that it doesn't really have any "established" brands per se. Even with the likes of Jabra and Sony around, everyone's still essentially on their first models. I can only wonder where we'll be in a year...


We'll be a lot poorer, but at least we'll have more stuff.  

Ended up returning the MW07 today (like a funeral).  Long story, but parted with the Tortoiseshell and sold it a few days ago to a friend at cost because they were out of stock in my area (only Black available).  Decided to try that color again, and once again, I was getting about 30 mins less battery life.  Which means 2.5 hours total and low battery bass drop warning at 2 hours.

On the plus side, very pleasantly surprised by the ROMEO 07R.  They support AAC and sound pretty good.  Sound is fairly balanced and does not have the overblown bass like a lot of Chi-Fi units.  It is, however, a little "raspy" on some tracks.  Connection has been rock solid after 2 hours of listening, although it's just at home.


----------



## RobinFood (Feb 2, 2019)

smaragd said:


> I was afraid you were going to write this...
> having tried many TWE myself and having the same issue in busy crowded HongKong I’m pleased to confirm that the Sabbat E12 Pro performs well in that regard. Travelling back home by train yesterday I didn’t have any disconnections at all... contrary to the Pamuscroll I tried before where the left bud keeps dropping out near stations with lots of BT and WiFi interference . Even the Shure BT2 sometimes cuts out.



Thanks. I might still keep it. I only go downtown once a week at most, and they have been behaving since I got back. I just love their sound. Just slightly below my Etys worth double their price.

I really want to try the new Zero Audio TWEs, they have bluetooth class one receiver with LDS antennas. If the sound can be as good but more stable I may have to get them.


----------



## hifi80sman

BigZ12 said:


> What?
> What did you send to Sennheiser? What issues did you address?
> Is this the same firmware update they promised me in January? Version 1.24?
> If so... this makes me VERY disappointed!


I basically echoed the same issues with the charging case and the distortion during calls.  I assume they’re referring to the 1.23 update.


----------



## BigZ12

hifi80sman said:


> I basically echoed the same issues with the charging case and the distortion during calls.  I assume they’re referring to the 1.23 update.


I sent an email to my contact for Sennheiser here in Norway. Hopefully we can get more info.
This was just disappointing!


----------



## nc8000

I’m at the point where the Earin M2 ticks all my boxes for a true wireless in my use cases. Yes I would have liked more than 3 hours 10-20 minutes per charge but it is very rare that I need more than that.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

hifi80sman said:


> We'll be a lot poorer, but at least we'll have more stuff.
> 
> Ended up returning the MW07 today (like a funeral).  Long story, but parted with the Tortoiseshell and sold it a few days ago to a friend at cost because they were out of stock in my area (only Black available).  Decided to try that color again, and once again, I was getting about 30 mins less battery life.  Which means 2.5 hours total and low battery bass drop warning at 2 hours.
> 
> On the plus side, very pleasantly surprised by the ROMEO 07R.  They support AAC and sound pretty good.  Sound is fairly balanced and does not have the overblown bass like a lot of Chi-Fi units.  It is, however, a little "raspy" on some tracks.  Connection has been rock solid after 2 hours of listening, although it's just at home.



The battery really is the death knell of the MW07. I was 100% set to be okay with it but a couple battery warnings at work and the MTW started calling my name. They also sound startlingly close to the Crossfade 2 so that's good for when I swap around. 

I am, however, watching Senn like a hawk now to see what they do next and if there's an updated HD1. I did see they're rebranding it "Momentum" again, maybe it'll come with some updates.


----------



## webvan

hifi80sman said:


> We'll be a lot poorer, but at least we'll have more stuff.
> 
> Ended up returning the MW07 today (like a funeral).  Long story, but parted with the Tortoiseshell and sold it a few days ago to a friend at cost because they were out of stock in my area (only Black available).  Decided to try that color again, and once again, I was getting about 30 mins less battery life.  Which means 2.5 hours total and low battery bass drop warning at 2 hours.
> 
> On the plus side, very pleasantly surprised by the *ROMEO 07R.*  They support AAC and sound pretty good.  Sound is fairly balanced and does not have the overblown bass like a lot of Chi-Fi units.  It is, however, a little "raspy" on some tracks.  Connection has been rock solid after 2 hours of listening, although it's just at home.



It seems you're not as blown away by the SQ as RobinHood with the Nuarts "clone" but then they maybe only share the outdoor shell (we already know they don't share the same chipset, maybe drivers too ?). No comparison with the MW07 I take it ? How is the isolation ?

I've been wearing the X12 a lot these days, not just for running where they're likely the best TWE option at this time, thanks to their comfort and battery life. I dug out the Havit G1 again and the SQ is possibly a tad better, possibly due to the fact they isolate (X12 are 100% open), punchier bass notibly, but they do put some pressure on the outer ear.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

webvan said:


> It seems you're not as blown away by the SQ as RobinHood with the Nuarts "clone" but then they maybe only share the outdoor shell (we already know they don't share the same chipset, maybe drivers too ?). No comparison with the MW07 I take it ? How is the isolation ?
> 
> I've been wearing the X12 a lot these days, not just for running where they're likely the best TWE option at this time, thanks to their comfort and battery life. I dug out the Havit G1 again and the SQ is possibly a tad better, possibly due to the fact they isolate (X12 are 100% open), punchier bass notibly, but they do put some pressure on the outer ear.



Once you've had the MW07 it's hard to be "blown away" by TWEs, I think.


----------



## howdy

hifi80sman said:


> We'll be a lot poorer, but at least we'll have more stuff.
> 
> Ended up returning the MW07 today (like a funeral).  Long story, but parted with the Tortoiseshell and sold it a few days ago to a friend at cost because they were out of stock in my area (only Black available).  Decided to try that color again, and once again, I was getting about 30 mins less battery life.  Which means 2.5 hours total and low battery bass drop warning at 2 hours.
> 
> On the plus side, very pleasantly surprised by the ROMEO 07R.  They support AAC and sound pretty good.  Sound is fairly balanced and does not have the overblown bass like a lot of Chi-Fi units.  It is, however, a little "raspy" on some tracks.  Connection has been rock solid after 2 hours of listening, although it's just at home.


That's weird how tortoiseshell lasts noticeably longer than the black one. This is my findings as well, having the black one first and now the Tortoise.


----------



## BigZ12

And there my MTW died... or at least the left channel.
Was listening to some music, then I started to lose connection on the left. First sporadically, then more and more until the left was quiet.
Tried to put them in the case, and start again but no luck.
Also tried to reset them through the app, but nope 
Now there's only a clicking sound when I move the left bud in the ear... 
I haven't dropped them or anything. Just careful use.
How lucky am I?


----------



## hifi80sman (Feb 2, 2019)

BigZ12 said:


> I sent an email to my contact for Sennheiser here in Norway. Hopefully we can get more info.
> This was just disappointing!


If you can get them to move faster, please do so!  Not sure why it takes so long, unless they are actually testing things out first.


webvan said:


> It seems you're not as blown away by the SQ as RobinHood with the Nuarts "clone" but then they maybe only share the outdoor shell (we already know they don't share the same chipset, maybe drivers too ?). No comparison with the MW07 I take it ? How is the isolation ?
> 
> I've been wearing the X12 a lot these days, not just for running where they're likely the best TWE option at this time, thanks to their comfort and battery life. I dug out the Havit G1 again and the SQ is possibly a tad better, possibly due to the fact they isolate (X12 are 100% open), punchier bass notibly, but they do put some pressure on the outer ear.


No, it doesn't compare with the MW07 or the MTW.  It does, however, sound better to me than the 65t, which I use as a baseline.  Isolation is good and better than the MW07.  I get a great, air-tight seal.

They do stick out a little bit, not as much as the Bose, but more than the MW07.

I also notice they aren't auto-pairing with my phone when I take them out of the case.  I've been having to manually connect them.  I can live with that, especially for the price, but it would be nice if they had that feature.

Another thing is video delay is noticeable, so not good if you're going to watch YouTube.  Pretty much good for music only.

EDIT:  Paired and re-paired.  They now auto-connect when taken out of the case.


----------



## howdy

BigZ12 said:


> And there my MTW died... or at least the left channel.
> Was listening to some music, then I started to lose connection on the left. First sporadically, then more and more until the left was quiet.
> Tried to put them in the case, and start again but no luck.
> Also tried to reset them through the app, but nope
> ...


I thought I was in the same boat as you on this and it should my buds where charged but the case was dead. I charged them all up and it's but normal since which was about a week and a half ago.


----------



## BigZ12

howdy said:


> I thought I was in the same boat as you on this and it should my buds where charged but the case was dead. I charged them all up and it's but normal since which was about a week and a half ago.


I'm afraid this is something different.
They connect, and show up with a lot of battery in the app. The case is also almost fully charged.
The touch panel on the left works too, but no sound. Just a form of "clicking sound" in the bud.


----------



## webvan

hifi80sman said:


> If you can get them to move faster, please do so!  Not sure why it takes so long, unless they are actually testing things out first.
> 
> No, it doesn't compare with the MW07 or the MTW.  It does, however, sound better to me than the 65t, which I use as a baseline.  Isolation is good and better than the MW07.  I get a great, air-tight seal.
> 
> ...



Thanks for the feedback, they sound like they could be similar to my Havit G1 so I probably don't need to get them


----------



## SomeGuyDude

I'm terrified of any TWE that sticks out more than the Bose...


----------



## howdy

BigZ12 said:


> I'm afraid this is something different.
> They connect, and show up with a lot of battery in the app. The case is also almost fully charged.
> The touch panel on the left works too, but no sound. Just a form of "clicking sound" in the bud.


That sucks! Hopefully you can exchange it out quickly. 
I've been jammin with the MW07 lately and havn't given much time to the Senns.


----------



## RobinFood

webvan said:


> It seems you're not as blown away by the SQ as RobinHood with the Nuarts "clone" but then they maybe only share the outdoor shell (we already know they don't share the same chipset, maybe drivers too ?). No comparison with the MW07 I take it ? How is the isolation ?
> 
> I've been wearing the X12 a lot these days, not just for running where they're likely the best TWE option at this time, thanks to their comfort and battery life. I dug out the Havit G1 again and the SQ is possibly a tad better, possibly due to the fact they isolate (X12 are 100% open), punchier bass notibly, but they do put some pressure on the outer ear.



I am connecting with APTX - I did notice the sound is quite a bit less crisp on SBC. I am absolutely addicted to the sound still today. There is no noticeable lag watching shows on my phone on VLC android.
There is a super light hissing while waiting to play songs though, gets worst on SBC. My tinnitus is louder though...so I don't really notice it. I noticed in a sound check that you could hear faint beeps and boops on the channel that wasn't playing music. Haven't noticed it on anything else. 

No real connection issues since I got back from downtown. I got my fingers crossed they will be stable for the next trip I take downtown, I really don't want to return them!


----------



## clerkpalmer

Well, my MTW have been struck with the dreaded battery drain.  Opened them yesterday after not using for a week.  Case was drained.  Right bud turned on manually.  Left bud wouldn't turn on at all.  Hmmm, any ideas?  Is this part of the firmware fix?


----------



## Tommy C

Anyone tried the new 65t Evolve 3rd gen TWE by Jabra?
I was told by a coworker that these are a clear upgrade over the 65t and can be used in a business environment too if you need to connect to Skype and what have you.
Unfortunately I can’t a/b them with the 65t.
https://www.jabra.ca/business/office-headsets/jabra-evolve/jabra-evolve-65t


----------



## clerkpalmer

clerkpalmer said:


> Well, my MTW have been struck with the dreaded battery drain.  Opened them yesterday after not using for a week.  Case was drained.  Right bud turned on manually.  Left bud wouldn't turn on at all.  Hmmm, any ideas?  Is this part of the firmware fix?


Fully charged over night. Right 100 percent. Left 88 percent. Charging case flashing yellow not green after all night. Grrrrrrrr. Not happy. MW07 display none of this behavior.


----------



## BobJS

Tommy C said:


> Anyone tried the new 65t Evolve 3rd gen TWE by Jabra?
> I was told by a coworker that these are a clear upgrade over the 65t and can be used in a business environment too if you need to connect to Skype and what have you.
> Unfortunately I can’t a/b them with the 65t.
> https://www.jabra.ca/business/office-headsets/jabra-evolve/jabra-evolve-65t



Their literature says it is basically the same as active elite with improved microphone.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

AFAIK the Evolve exists solely for the corporate world. The whole 65t line is the same headphone with different bells and whistles. The Elite is the normal one, Active is more robust for sports, Evolve with extra mic capabilities for businesses.


----------



## rahmeleon

SomeGuyDude said:


> AFAIK the Evolve exists solely for the corporate world. The whole 65t line is the same headphone with different bells and whistles. The Elite is the normal one, Active is more robust for sports, Evolve with extra mic capabilities for businesses.



But should the mics in the Active 65t still sound clear in an outdoor environment? With the pair I've had for about a week, I can't take a call with them if I am not in a quite environment. Any kind of noise and other person says they can't hear me at all.


----------



## webvan

The 65Ts have the best call quality but their are limits to what they can handle of course. Try recording voice messages to see if there's anything odd. 



RobinFood said:


> I am connecting with APTX - I did notice the sound is quite a bit less crisp on SBC. I am absolutely addicted to the sound still today. There is no noticeable lag watching shows on my phone on VLC android.
> There is a super light hissing while waiting to play songs though, gets worst on SBC. My tinnitus is louder though...so I don't really notice it. I noticed in a sound check that you could hear faint beeps and boops on the channel that wasn't playing music. Haven't noticed it on anything else.
> 
> No real connection issues since I got back from downtown. I got my fingers crossed they will be stable for the next trip I take downtown, I really don't want to return them!



Good to hear aptX helps and they may have little in common with the Romeos other than their shell and battery charger.


----------



## clerkpalmer

My MTW are junk. Turned on and connected to my phone while in the case today. I can’t turn them off. Case is dead despite having a full charge yesterday. This is My second pair with the same problems.

Does anyone have a US warranty number...

Of course I’m out of my return period by a week.


----------



## Rickyearl

clerkpalmer said:


> My MTW are junk. Turned on and connected to my phone while in the case today. I can’t turn them off. Case is dead despite having a full charge yesterday. This is My second pair with the same problems.
> 
> Does anyone have a US warranty number...
> 
> Of course I’m out of my return period by a week.


Probably won't help but did you try the full 30+ second reset?  I did that and it helped a lot with the "won't turn off when charging" issue.


----------



## Luchyres

I just received the Sabbat E12: 

A) Incredibly comfortable - and I quite like the case/size. 

B) Overall like the fit and finish. 

C) Sound is good - not blowing my mind - but I like it.


Two issues: 

1) I thought it was the seal, but no matter how much I play with tips and re-seating it still sounds like the balance is off and leaning leftward. This is particularly noticeable with the bass - it just seems way less full/present on the right bud. Anyone else experience this with the X12 or E12? 

2) I can hear a slight buzzing/mechanical sound with the "follower" bud - reminds me a bit of what I could hear with the Earin M-2 at loud volumes - whichever bud was the follower would have a slight buzzing that I've started to assume is the NFMI mechanism? 

Honestly, if it weren't for issue 1, I would probably keep them. But I think I have to return them for the combo of 1 and 2 above.


----------



## bronco1015

clerkpalmer said:


> My MTW are junk. Turned on and connected to my phone while in the case today. I can’t turn them off. Case is dead despite having a full charge yesterday. This is My second pair with the same problems.
> 
> Does anyone have a US warranty number...
> 
> Of course I’m out of my return period by a week.   I've had 2 instances where the MTWs  wouldn't shut off when in the case. Plugging them in immediately shut them off. Heres hoping the firmware updates fix this and all other bugs reported. Also, i wish Sennheiser would ditch the dot EQ. IMO, it's the worst. Would love to see a 5 band EQ or something similar.


----------



## Rickyearl

Totally agree.


----------



## webvan

Luchyres said:


> I just received the Sabbat E12:
> 
> A) Incredibly comfortable - and I quite like the case/size.
> 
> ...



No balance problems with my X12, possibly a bit with the voice prompts at times but that's it. Can't say I've noticed any buzzing either and yes the sound is good, especially for "open" earbuds, but not as good as the Sony WF1000-x. It's fine when you're on the move, or even at home for casual listening. 

X12 have a "no artifacts" transparency mode active 100% of the time and other than for commuting or in a plane that's perfect IMHO. Espc


----------



## Tonza

So I went with the MW07 as there was a local retailer that accepts returns for them. (for 50 days)

I saw one review of the earbuds that said that full volume is not enough. This is really weird these are loud for me at a bit over half volume.
I know its unfair comparison but I feel these still have ways to go compared to my full size headphones. They do sound better than the X3 but especially snare hits sound still off.
Maybe its just the presentation of iem.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

Are you comparing them to the Focals? That's... I mean... yeah they're not even gonna be in the same area code. Even the Philips X1 will naturally be a significant step beyond.


----------



## Tonza (Feb 5, 2019)

Mostly the 1more Triple drivers. But yeah, I can't shake the sound of Focals after getting them. "Endgame" for sure.
The Philips isn't my first choice for music. For games and movies its amazing.

Not really fair comparison either way. Only other iem I have is the Hifiman Bolt which might be the worst thing I've heard. The convenience of true wireless is something else. So easy to take them where-ever I go.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

Tonza said:


> Mostly the 1more Triple drivers. But yeah, I can't shake the sound of Focals after getting them. "Endgame" for sure.
> The Philips isn't my first choice for music. For games and movies its amazing.
> 
> Not really fair comparison either way. Only other iem I have is the Hifiman Bolt which might be the worst thing I've heard. The convenience of true wireless is something else. So easy to take them where-ever I go.



1More triple over the MW07? Peculiar. I have the Quads and liked the MW07 more (really close, though).


----------



## Tonza

SomeGuyDude said:


> 1More triple over the MW07? Peculiar. I have the Quads and liked the MW07 more (really close, though).



The triples are the over/on ear ones. I think someone calls them tridents. 1More really needs better names for their headphones.
But I don't think they are that much better, just different.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

Tonza said:


> The triples are the over/on ear ones. I think someone calls them tridents. 1More really needs better names for their headphones.
> But I don't think they are that much better, just different.



Ah! Sorry, my mistake. Haven't heard that one, but yeah. A multi-driver full-size wired headphone in the $200 range is probably going to have advantages over a TWE for several reasons.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

BTW the B&O e8 is going for $208 on Amazon, which is a steal IMO. Best Buy will honor the price match on that, too.


----------



## KarimLeVallois

SomeGuyDude said:


> BTW the B&O e8 is going for $208 on Amazon, which is a steal IMO. Best Buy will honor the price match on that, too.



I had the E8, purchased the MW07, sold the E8! lol


----------



## smaragd

Testing the Sabbat E12 pro... not aware of a transparency mode, can anyone confirm and show how to activate?


----------



## webvan

There is no transparency mode on the Sabbat TWEs. On the X12 it's not a problem since they are transparent by design.


----------



## RobinFood

You can activate transparency mode on any earbuds by having them rest outside of seal position if they have earhooks or other support systems


----------



## albau

Strange thing. With my previous Galaxy S8 my 65t and MW07 had virtually no dropouts. Now I upgraded to S9+ and it’s dropout galore for both TWs! Inside or outside. Stretch hands over head at the gym – dropout, fiddle the wrong way with the right bud – dropout, etc. On the street both randomly make momentary cracks in places where neither ever did. Switching codecs doesn’t make any difference in connectivity. And it’s not the left bud loosing connection, seems like both. All of which makes me think that it has something to do with S9+. Antenna location? Different  chipset and BT SoC? Both S8 and S9+ run Android 8. Unfortunately besides S9+ and iPad Air I don’t have currently any other source to compare, and it’s unrealistic to carry the tablet to the gym or jog with it. Any ideas, guys?


----------



## SomeGuyDude

Anyone else having zero problems with the Comply True Grip? Picked up a set on a whim and they're gangbusters. Now the MTW is the ultimate gym bud.


----------



## Edward Ng

SomeGuyDude said:


> Anyone else having zero problems with the Comply True Grip? Picked up a set on a whim and they're gangbusters. Now the MTW is the ultimate gym bud.


Too small for me; impossible to get a proper seal without using my hands to keep them jammed deep into my ear canals. If they had larger size options, they’d work fine.

-Ed


----------



## clerkpalmer

SomeGuyDude said:


> Anyone else having zero problems with the Comply True Grip? Picked up a set on a whim and they're gangbusters. Now the MTW is the ultimate gym bud.


Yes for me. Improved the sq of MTW. Too bad mine are in the mail to sennheiser....


----------



## ebrandon

Comply website doesn't list Mavin Air-X as one of the products they know about.
What product should I use on their website whose tips will also be compatible with the Mavin Air-X?
Thanks!


----------



## dubgee2002

I'm new to the forum, but have been following this thread for a while now. I have the comply pro's on my MTM, and they're very comfortable, but sound a little muddled to me. They're great for reducing the "thud" when walking though. Do the spinfits (with longer tips) work similar in reducing the "thud" or are they similar to the stock tips as far as thud goes?


----------



## turbobb

Pic of Samsung's latest TWE leaked:
https://www.theverge.com/platform/a...-galaxy-buds-earphones-promotional-image-leak

(not much details though...)


----------



## turbobb

Double post glitch


----------



## kiwikozo (Feb 6, 2019)

albau said:


> Strange thing. With my previous Galaxy S8 my 65t and MW07 had virtually no dropouts. Now I upgraded to S9+ and it’s dropout galore for both TWs! Inside or outside. Stretch hands over head at the gym – dropout, fiddle the wrong way with the right bud – dropout, etc. On the street both randomly make momentary cracks in places where neither ever did. Switching codecs doesn’t make any difference in connectivity. And it’s not the left bud loosing connection, seems like both. All of which makes me think that it has something to do with S9+. Antenna location? Different  chipset and BT SoC? Both S8 and S9+ run Android 8. Unfortunately besides S9+ and iPad Air I don’t have currently any other source to compare, and it’s unrealistic to carry the tablet to the gym or jog with it. Any ideas, guys?



Do you have a case on your S9?

Sometimes cheaper aftermarket cases can cause interference issues.

Also try developer options >> make sure bluetooth codec is aptx. Check the audio bits per sample is 16 bits, playback quality is adaptive.


----------



## turbobb (Feb 6, 2019)

Dat Timmkoo TIK-T1 though...


(note: the tips they come with are OK, I prefer my CP350 tips shown above)

~85-87% of MW07's sound quality with similar profile though not as rich due to more recessed mid's but has stronger bass and slightly higher upper treble which gives it an exaggerated crispness (despite elevated treble which I'm sensitive to, it's not in the 8K-ish range like the MW07 which disagree with my ears). Literally just got these so that's my zero burn-in impressions but they are easily my current recommendation for bargain TWEs ($38.99). It even has AAC codec (though they didn't advertise it). Passed palm cover test (just covered each bud with the thicker part of my palm) with flying colors with no intra-bud drop out's though overall range is just ok but still pretty good (Aermoo B3's is leader in this category). Will need to test how they hold up on trip into the city tomorrow as well as the battery life (they claim 4.5hrs). The touch controls are limited to the silver dot on the side so not easily accidentally invoked though as with most touch controls I've experienced on TWE's, not exactly the most responsive nor easy to always invoke the exact function one wants. The sound stage and image separation are also quite good just about matching the MW07 (or at least coming very close). Suffice to say, I'm very impressed by these so far.

The main reason I got these is they were unique looking and didn't seem like the other cookie cutter spin-off's that spawn from one OEM. Random fact: along with the iansean T1S, they are the only two TWEs I've tried recently where the manufacturer recorded their own custom messages for certain verbal cues (Power On, pairing, etc.) and both feature English spoken by a female with distinct Chinese accent (iansean were more Cantonese sounding whereas this was more Mandarin)


----------



## Wrathbringer27

turbobb said:


> Dat Timmkoo TIK-T1 though...
> 
> (note: the tips they come with are OK, I prefer my CP350 tips shown above)
> 
> ...


Do you have the Mifo to compare it to? How do they look in ear and wear to get one?


----------



## turbobb

@ebrandon - The Air-X's nozzle is similar to that of the Jaybird X, 2 & 3 in that it's just a straight tube with no ridges. I measured the diam @ 6.7mm and I believe the Jaybird is 6mm (might be worth asking Comply about it).


----------



## turbobb (Feb 7, 2019)

@Wrathbringer27 - they have some Photochopped images and one computer rendering on their product page: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07MX2CWM5 (sorry I don't have modelesque ears...). Overall they are about flush with my antihelix so don't look too bad but of course, everybody's ear anatomy is a little different.

EDIT: Sorry, don't have Mifo but have tried a BUNCH of Chi-Fi units and I'd say these even top my previous two recommendations (MPow T5 & Romeo 07R's). They do have elevated bass so not for those who are looking for a neutral sig.


----------



## Wrathbringer27

@turbobb aha thank you!


----------



## Luchyres

turbobb said:


> Dat Timmkoo TIK-T1 though...
> 
> (note: the tips they come with are OK, I prefer my CP350 tips shown above)
> 
> ...



Can you do a voice recording or trial phone call and let me know if they are passable for phone use? Unfortunately, my TWE always end up being my main call headset - so this feature has steadily crept up in my valuation - though I can't quite forgive my sound snob ways in favor of call quality as the primary reason for buying. Thanks!


----------



## turbobb

@Luchyres - I literally just took a call on them and believe they're not bad (glad I can hear through both buds) but will try to do a voice recording and post it.


----------



## Luchyres

turbobb said:


> @Luchyres - I literally just took a call on them and believe they're not bad (glad I can hear through both buds) but will try to do a voice recording and post it.


Thank you sir!

No rush on my end - but they do look pretttttty sweet - so if you give the thumbs up I'll probably buy to see if they are better than the Sabbat E12 I'm returning for balance (L significantly louder/more full than R) and vibration issues.


----------



## howdy

Gonna pick up the Mavins soon as they seem like the best all around TW for the gym. Hopefully the connection is what they say it should be. 
I sold off my Jaybird Runs which absolutely suck at the gym for connection. I will be using the E8 in the interim.


----------



## howdy

Just went to play store and there is a update for the Senns! It says connection and bug fixes.


----------



## GJ2890

howdy said:


> Just went to play store and there is a update for the Senns! It says connection and bug fixes.



Got it too. But it is only for the app. No new firmware download when I go in the app.


----------



## BigZ12

Jabra Elite Active 65t vs Senn' MTW
Pros / Cons?

I had to deliver my MTWs back because of a failure on the left bud.
Don't think I will pick them up again before a new firmware is in place, and you guys give it a "green light"  

Have got a good deal on the Jabra, while I wait for the MTWs/a good deal on MW07 or the Klipsch (in June)

Please enlighten me.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

Pro of the 65t: Call quality is a ton better, I personally think buttons are easier to use than touch controls.

Pro of the MTW: Literally everything else.

The above is said under the assumption you don't run into technical issues. For example, I had problems with a left side hiss on my Jabra but that seems to be unique to me so I'm not counting that. The Jabra sound fine but not anything special. The MTW are second only to the MW07 in SQ.


----------



## Edward Ng

SomeGuyDude said:


> ...The MTW are second only to the MW07 in SQ.



Curious (not disputing): what aspects of the MW07 sound do you prefer over MTW? I ask because I’m curious about the MW07, but I also debate buying a pair outright because my wife might not appreciate it if she sees yet another new pair of IEMs in my possession 

One thing that is definitely critical to me is bottom-end extension. Now that I’ve been basically spoiled by the sub bass extension of the MTW, I’ve completely stopped listening to my trusty pair of Westone4s, which is sort of sad, but I’d rather hear 100% of the music at 90-95% of the overall quality than just 80% of the music at 95-100% of the overall quality, you know what I mean? My Westone4s simply lack the deeper subbass spectrum entirely, regardless of what tips I use.


----------



## clerkpalmer

Edward Ng said:


> Curious (not disputing): what aspects of the MW07 sound do you prefer over MTW? I ask because I’m curious about the MW07, but I also debate buying a pair outright because my wife might not appreciate it if she sees yet another new pair of IEMs in my possession
> 
> One thing that is definitely critical to me is bottom-end extension. Now that I’ve been basically spoiled by the sub bass extension of the MTW, I’ve completely stopped listening to my trusty pair of Westone4s, which is sort of sad, but I’d rather hear 100% of the music at 90-95% of the overall quality than just 80% of the music at 95-100% of the overall quality, you know what I mean? My Westone4s simply lack the deeper subbass spectrum entirely, regardless of what tips I use.



I’ll take a shot at this. I would describe the MW07 as warmer, Fuller and slightly more laid back.  All around more musical to my ears. They may lack the absolute low end of the MTW but they are by no means light in bass. There is something magical about the MW07 that cannot easily be described. It’s frankly stunning for a TW. Whenever I wear them I get a “wow” factor. I do not feel the same about MTW even though they are excellent.


----------



## KarimLeVallois

clerkpalmer said:


> I’ll take a shot at this. I would describe the MW07 as warmer, Fuller and slightly more laid back.  All around more musical to my ears. They may lack the absolute low end of the MTW but they are by no means light in bass. There is something magical about the MW07 that cannot easily be described. It’s frankly stunning for a TW. Whenever I wear them I get a “wow” factor. I do not feel the same about MTW even though they are excellent.



Couldn't agree more, love listening to the MW07, they make you feel all warm and fuzzy inside.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

Edward Ng said:


> Curious (not disputing): what aspects of the MW07 sound do you prefer over MTW? I ask because I’m curious about the MW07, but I also debate buying a pair outright because my wife might not appreciate it if she sees yet another new pair of IEMs in my possession
> 
> One thing that is definitely critical to me is bottom-end extension. Now that I’ve been basically spoiled by the sub bass extension of the MTW, I’ve completely stopped listening to my trusty pair of Westone4s, which is sort of sad, but I’d rather hear 100% of the music at 90-95% of the overall quality than just 80% of the music at 95-100% of the overall quality, you know what I mean? My Westone4s simply lack the deeper subbass spectrum entirely, regardless of what tips I use.



The MW07 is a bit more "coherent" if that makes sense. Its treble is clearer, the bass is full without sounding at all boomy, and there's a downright impressive amount of space to everything. The MW07 is a headphone I genuinely believe sounds like a wired headphone. Its bass isn't as meaty as the MTW but it absolutely goes as deep.

Now, if you have the MTW, the difference is fairly small. I tend to say the MW07 has "better SQ" but I also kept my MTW because its qualities fit my music better. It's more laid back in the treble and a touch burlier in the low end so my metal and hip hop sound heavy as hell just how I like it. 

So if you're sitting with the MTW and pondering a set of MW07, I'd say go for it if you have the money sitting around, but be aware I had both and kept the MTW myself. I know others have done the reverse, like clerk above. The MW07 has a "wow" factor, it's very true, and I think part of that is in the air and treble sparkle. 

When it comes to those two, though, ask yourself this: Do you feel like your current set is missing something, or are you just hoping the other will give you "more"? If it's the latter, stay with what you have, because IMO the MTW/MW07 are the kings of the mountain and the difference between them comes down to just whichever tickles your fancy better. If the MTW has issues or things you're unhappy with, the MW07 may very well be what you need.


----------



## Edward Ng

SomeGuyDude said:


> ...When it comes to those two, though, ask yourself this: Do you feel like your current set is missing something, or are you just hoping the other will give you "more"? If it's the latter, stay with what you have, because IMO the MTW/MW07 are the kings of the mountain and the difference between them comes down to just whichever tickles your fancy better. If the MTW has issues or things you're unhappy with, the MW07 may very well be what you need.



Essentially, I’m 90% happy with the MTW. From a personal taste standpoint, the 10% would be covered by better isolation and less sibilance, which is driven by the small peak in the MTW’s response curve around 5-8K. All my experimentation with different tips on the MTWs so far have not yielded the level of isolation I get with my Westone4s and I miss the less sibilant treble of my Westone4s compared to the MTW. Give me that, and I’ll be 100% satisfied.

-Ed


----------



## SomeGuyDude

Edward Ng said:


> Essentially, I’m 90% happy with the MTW. From a personal taste standpoint, the 10% would be covered by better isolation and less sibilance, which is driven by the small peak in the MTW’s response curve around 5-8K. All my experimentation with different tips on the MTWs so far have not yielded the level of isolation I get with my Westone4s and I miss the less sibilant treble of my Westone4s compared to the MTW. Give me that, and I’ll be 100% satisfied.
> 
> -Ed



Hmmm. The isolation on the MW07 isn't as good as the MTW in my experience, although the fit is more secure thanks to the wings. I don't notice any significant sibilance but I believe others have noted the MW07 is smoother on the treble despite being somewhat elevated by comparison. Have you tried the comply true grip? Seems like some on here didn't like them but they're absolutely golden for me.


----------



## clerkpalmer

Edward Ng said:


> Essentially, I’m 90% happy with the MTW. From a personal taste standpoint, the 10% would be covered by better isolation and less sibilance, which is driven by the small peak in the MTW’s response curve around 5-8K. All my experimentation with different tips on the MTWs so far have not yielded the level of isolation I get with my Westone4s and I miss the less sibilant treble of my Westone4s compared to the MTW. Give me that, and I’ll be 100% satisfied.
> 
> -Ed


Treble on the Mw07 is smooth as silk. As far as isolation, you probably won’t get better than your westones.


----------



## Edward Ng

[QUOTE="SomeGuyDude, post: 14767134, member: ...Have you tried the comply true grip? Seems like some on here didn't like them but they're absolutely golden for me.[/QUOTE]

They only come in one size and the set I bought are too small for my ear canals. They need to release a larger size option. I have experimented with coring out my TrueGrip tips and filling in the stock tips as well as SpinFit tips with the cored out TrueGrip foam, but they were really uncomfortable that way, with only moderate improvement to isolation.

If only I could find somewhere/someone to do my own listening test of the MW07s before buying.

-Ed


----------



## Edward Ng

clerkpalmer said:


> Treble on the Mw07 is smooth as silk. As far as isolation, you probably won’t get better than your westones.


It’s really too bad that my Westone4s completely lack that sub bass. :’(

-Ed


----------



## WesennTony

Edward Ng said:


> It’s really too bad that my Westone4s completely lack that sub bass. :’(
> 
> -Ed


A little bit off topic: have you tried ProGuard, EarPortz tips for your w4s? I have them on my w60s and they definitely improve the sub bass, though not as comfortable as other tips.


----------



## turbobb

Update on the Timmkoo TIK-T1
- battery life is outstanding, I got 6hrs and 52mins (using the BT Battery Widget as a tracker) listening at higher volume ~75% on way to work (note: these are a little lower in volume vs. other TWEs so the level would've only shown as ~50-60% on most other TWEs) and then at about 50% volume at work, I took a 30 minute break during a meeting with some shorter breaks here and there in between but they always remain connected. I believe they'll easily match or exceed the mfr's claim of 4.5hrs playback time
- phone calls are quite good on my end; as mentioned audible queues when hanging up are played only through the right bud but call is handled on both buds - they sound better than other TWEs for some reason but I've yet to test how it sounds from recipient end; will be rigging up a test to simulate being outdoors and on a plane and recording that on another phone, just gotta figure out how to port that back so I can post it here
- connectivity - only had one minor glitch on the way back home from work but otherwise it's been rock solid with no drops

Burning them in and will provide further updates later.


----------



## Rickyearl

howdy said:


> Just went to play store and there is a update for the Senns! It says connection and bug fixes.


Nothing on the IOS app itself or the App Store.


----------



## robm321

I have to agree with all the sentiments regarding the MW07. Its very enjoyable but the call quality is terrible. That's the only reason that I'm thinking of returning them.


----------



## Rickyearl

clerkpalmer said:


> I’ll take a shot at this. I would describe the MW07 as warmer, Fuller and slightly more laid back.  All around more musical to my ears. They may lack the absolute low end of the MTW but they are by no means light in bass.


I agree with this 100%.



Edward Ng said:


> Essentially, I’m 90% happy with the MTW. From a personal taste standpoint, the 10% would be covered by better isolation and less sibilance,


MTW are definitely more sibilant than MW07, but I'd say isolation on the MTW is better.  At least for me, I can wear the MW07 using the wings as support, so the tips don't have to wedge so tightly against my ear canal like the MTW and most IEMs.  So the resulting relative lack of isolation is a good thing.

But man, the battery life on the MW07 suuuuucks.  On the plus side, though, they charge at least as fast as the MTW, the case charges a lot faster, and they have none of that "draining at a constant rate even when not in use" issue, so I find myself charging the MW07 case a whole lot less often.


----------



## Edward Ng

Rickyearl said:


> I agree with this 100%.
> 
> 
> MTW are definitely more sibilant than MW07, but I'd say isolation on the MTW is better.  At least for me, I can wear the MW07 using the wings as support, so the tips don't have to wedge so tightly against my ear canal like the MTW and most IEMs.  So the resulting relative lack of isolation is a good thing.
> ...


Would you agree to other comments that the bass _extension_ is as deep as the MTW? I.e. the response curve doesn’t taper off until as far down the spectrum as MTW? That’s where I am primarily disappointed in my Westones.

-Ed


----------



## clerkpalmer

Edward Ng said:


> Would you agree to other comments that the bass _extension_ is as deep as the MTW? I.e. the response curve doesn’t taper off until as far down the spectrum as MTW? That’s where I am primarily disappointed in my Westones.
> 
> -Ed


I find the bass on the MTW boomy. The bass in the MW07 is more natural; less bloated. I do not believe anyone would complain about the bass quantity or quality in the MW07 unless you are an absolute bass head. I have some brainwavz iems and the bass sucks on them. MW07 blows them away.


----------



## Edward Ng

clerkpalmer said:


> I find the bass on the MTW boomy. The bass in the MW07 is more natural; less bloated. I do not believe anyone would complain about the bass quantity or quality in the MW07 unless you are an absolute bass head. I have some brainwavz iems and the bass sucks on them. MW07 blows them away.


Your point about the boominess/quality is well-noted; my question is: does it reach as deep? From a technical standpoint, let’s say the Westone4 doesn’t put out anything below 15hz at all, but everything from 15hz and up is cleaner than the MTW, but the MTW is reaching down to 8Hz, so I’m literally missing part of the music entirely with the cleaner sounding Westones in comparison. Do the MW07s reach down as low? I totally get that what bass that is there is cleaner and faster; it’s the extension I want to know about.

-Ed


----------



## clerkpalmer

Edward Ng said:


> Your point about the boominess/quality is well-noted; my question is: does it reach as deep? From a technical standpoint, let’s say the Westone4 doesn’t put out anything below 15hz at all, but everything from 15hz and up is cleaner than the MTW, but the MTW is reaching down to 8Hz, so I’m literally missing part of the music entirely with the cleaner sounding Westones in comparison. Do the MW07s reach down as low? I totally get that what bass that is there is cleaner and faster; it’s the extension I want to know about.
> 
> -Ed



I may not have the most discerning ear. Too many heavy metal concerts. My guess is the MTW goes lower than the MW07. It’s not something I’ve focused on because both headsets have excellent bass.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

clerkpalmer said:


> I find the bass on the MTW boomy. The bass in the MW07 is more natural; less bloated. I do not believe anyone would complain about the bass quantity or quality in the MW07 unless you are an absolute bass head. I have some brainwavz iems and the bass sucks on them. MW07 blows them away.



Agreed all around. MTW bass is boomier than the MW07, as is befitting the Momentum name (they're all kinda like that). MW07 goes deep as all hell and gives a "full" feeling on all music. Even as someone who loves his bass I found the MW07 more than adequate.


----------



## turbobb

@Edward Ng - Though I don't have the MTW, going to throw in my 2 cents on the MW07 - totally agree with others that the bass is very nice and clean and extremely articulate and impactful without being boomy (it doesn't color the mid's). Personally I feel it reaches low enough in the sub's but of course we all hear differently. If you can suggest a track you're concerned with missing the sub's on we might be able to weigh in (give the time and what you expect to hear in the track). 

For all the other MW07 owners, have you had a bug where all of a sudden the bass is completely gone? I had this happen randomly (won't even begin to know how to reproduce the issue) and the only way to rectify it was by "resetting" it in the case, after which the bass was restored.


----------



## mikp

ebrandon said:


> Comply website doesn't list Mavin Air-X as one of the products they know about.
> What product should I use on their website whose tips will also be compatible with the Mavin Air-X?
> Thanks!



im currently using these ali specials on the mavin and 65t. Will be trying spinfits soon.

Foam works for me on the 65t, but find it fiddly on tws without ambient function. Too bad the mandarine does not have any "give" when finally put on the mavins.


----------



## webvan

I have these too, aka as Anjirui's but how do you fit them on the 65t? Let alone their case?


----------



## mikp

cut off the inner tube on one of the tiny excuse of tips for the 65t. Then put the tube on the 65t. Then it should fit the "t400" and hold it in place. Squeeze the foams all the way down on the 65t.

It is a little tight fit in the case, but after 2-3 times the lid does click in place. No such issues on the mavin luckily.


----------



## Edward Ng

turbobb said:


> @Edward Ng...If you can suggest a track you're concerned with missing the sub's on we might be able to weigh in (give the time and what you expect to hear in the track)...



It’s no reference track, but the first time I noticed the difference between my Westone4 and MTW was right from the start of Taylor Swift’s Shake It Off, where the bass drum has absolutely zero impact and barely any presence on my Westone4s, but not only do I hear it, but I feel it, with the MTWs. Even my 1More Triple Driver LTNGs hit with the bass drum there with meaningful impact. This is where I lost faith in my Westones. And since it’s right at the start of the track, you wouldn’t have to skip around in a song to find it for testing.

-Ed


----------



## wind016

I just put an order for Sabbat E12 and TFZ X1. Hopefully, they do what I want. Is there a truly wireless headphone with the sound sig of KZ ZSRs? Something with impactful bass, detailed and non-congested uppermids, and forgiving with streamed music?


----------



## chinmie

wind016 said:


> I just put an order for Sabbat E12 and TFZ X1. Hopefully, they do what I want. Is there a truly wireless headphone with the sound sig of KZ ZSRs? Something with impactful bass, detailed and non-congested uppermids, and forgiving with streamed music?



if the TFZ X1 is based on the Mifo o5 pro version, i personally think the Mifo Standard version is a much fuller sounding product. the pro version (BA driver) is really limited on the bass and treble extension


----------



## hifi80sman

Edward Ng said:


> Your point about the boominess/quality is well-noted; my question is: does it reach as deep? From a technical standpoint, let’s say the Westone4 doesn’t put out anything below 15hz at all, but everything from 15hz and up is cleaner than the MTW, but the MTW is reaching down to 8Hz, so I’m literally missing part of the music entirely with the cleaner sounding Westones in comparison. Do the MW07s reach down as low? I totally get that what bass that is there is cleaner and faster; it’s the extension I want to know about.
> 
> -Ed


In my opinion, the MW07 does reach deeper than the MTW.


----------



## chinmie

has anyone compared the MW07 with the old Sony WF1000X? how do they compare in sound?


----------



## clerkpalmer

chinmie said:


> has anyone compared the MW07 with the old Sony WF1000X? how do they compare in sound?


I don’t think that would even be a fair fight. I had the sp700n not the 1000x but I believe they are similar. There is no comparison. They aren’t in the same league.


----------



## chinmie

clerkpalmer said:


> I don’t think that would even be a fair fight. I had the sp700n not the 1000x but I believe they are similar. There is no comparison. They aren’t in the same league.



the thing is sp700n and the 1000x are different. i wouldn't buy the Sp700n even if heavily discounted because the sound is just not tuned good enough for me (too much bass) while the 1000x, as much that i hated the battery life and the useless Anc, i the tuning alot that i even searching for a wired counterpart of it. it's better tuned even compared to the EH1000XM3 which have too much midbass bleed. 

i don't think the SQ on the 700 and 1000 are comparable


----------



## clerkpalmer

chinmie said:


> the thing is sp700n and the 1000x are different. i wouldn't buy the Sp700n even if heavily discounted because the sound is just not tuned good enough for me (too much bass) while the 1000x, as much that i hated the battery life and the useless Anc, i the tuning alot that i even searching for a wired counterpart of it. it's better tuned even compared to the EH1000XM3 which have too much midbass bleed.
> 
> i don't think the SQ on the 700 and 1000 are comparable


Fair enough. In that case, I can’t comment based on personal experience.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

chinmie said:


> the thing is sp700n and the 1000x are different. i wouldn't buy the Sp700n even if heavily discounted because the sound is just not tuned good enough for me (too much bass) while the 1000x, as much that i hated the battery life and the useless Anc, i the tuning alot that i even searching for a wired counterpart of it. it's better tuned even compared to the EH1000XM3 which have too much midbass bleed.
> 
> i don't think the SQ on the 700 and 1000 are comparable



In fairness, the sp700n is intended for gym use, where extra bass is pretty necessary since odds are it's a noisy environment and you'll be moving around a whole lot. It's not really meant to be a "sit and listen" headphone.


----------



## chinmie

SomeGuyDude said:


> In fairness, the sp700n is intended for gym use, where extra bass is pretty necessary since odds are it's a noisy environment and you'll be moving around a whole lot. It's not really meant to be a "sit and listen" headphone.



yup. that's why it's hard for me to let go of the 65t, because even if it lacks some "polish" that the others have (heck, even the mifo is more polished), the situation turn around in street application. the 65t becomes the best sounding to use for motorcycle riding for me


----------



## Slater

Edward Ng said:


> It’s no reference track, but the first time I noticed the difference between my Westone4 and MTW was right from the start of Taylor Swift’s Shake It Off, where the bass drum has absolutely zero impact and barely any presence on my Westone4s, but not only do I hear it, but I feel it, with the MTWs. Even my 1More Triple Driver LTNGs hit with the bass drum there with meaningful impact. This is where I lost faith in my Westones. And since it’s right at the start of the track, you wouldn’t have to skip around in a song to find it for testing.
> 
> -Ed



LTNG?


----------



## webvan

mikp said:


> cut off the inner tube on one of the tiny excuse of tips for the 65t. Then put the tube on the 65t. Then it should fit the "t400" and hold it in place. Squeeze the foams all the way down on the 65t.
> 
> It is a little tight fit in the case, but after 2-3 times the lid does click in place. No such issues on the mavin luckily.


Thanks for the tip, I sacrificed the original S tip and indeed their core can be forced into the "Ali specials". It also works with the "Round Ali Specials" (Comply Ts equivalents) but there's a bit less isolation. Overall I still prefer the "foamified" original tips though as they're quicker to put in place than foam tips and retain a brighter sound.


----------



## Edward Ng

Slater said:


> LTNG?


The version of the Triple Driver IEM with the Lightning connector instead of standard 3.5mm headphone plug.

-Ed


----------



## Edward Ng

My MandarinES Symbio N tips finally came in and I’ve decided that these are probably going to give me enough isolation with the MTWs to be happy. I’ll know for sure on Monday when I get back on the train to work. They also seem to be helping with the sibilance (in both cases comparing against the SpinFit tips). I am finding that with the Symbio tips, I use the large size and just pop them into my ears without really jamming them in, whereas with the SpinFits I have to use the medium size and then turn while pushing them in to get deeper insertion. That means the Symbio are also easier to get a more consistent seal with. The only drawback may be that it’s making a boomy set of IEMs even boomier—more testing to come.

-Ed


----------



## howdy

Edward Ng said:


> My MandarinES Symbio N tips finally came in and I’ve decided that these are probably going to give me enough isolation with the MTWs to be happy. I’ll know for sure on Monday when I get back on the train to work. They also seem to be helping with the sibilance (in both cases comparing against the SpinFit tips). I am finding that with the Symbio tips, I use the large size and just pop them into my ears without really jamming them in, whereas with the SpinFits I have to use the medium size and then turn while pushing them in to get deeper insertion. That means the Symbio are also easier to get a more consistent seal with. The only drawback may be that it’s making a boomy set of IEMs even boomier—more testing to come.
> 
> -Ed


How long from the time you ordered the Symbio tell you receive them? I ordered mine around 3 weeks ago and still no sign of them. Can't wait to try them on my MW07.


----------



## Edward Ng

howdy said:


> How long from the time you ordered the Symbio tell you receive them? I ordered mine around 3 weeks ago and still no sign of them. Can't wait to try them on my MW07.


Ordered on 1/29, arrived on 2/8. I’m in New Jersey and the package came from Hungary (much to my surprise).

-Ed


----------



## Bartig

More fans of the brilliant 25 dollar option QCY QS1 here?


----------



## Slater (Feb 9, 2019)

Does anyone own or know anything about the TREBLAB X5?

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07C4WCPG6

It has a long shell (similar to older Bluetooth cell phone headsets). This allows for a larger battery and also microphone placement closer to the mouth, which *should* translate into excellent phone call performance.

As far as sound, it uses beryllium drivers, which should in theory provide good sonic performance (assuming they didn’t s few the tuning up).

It sells for about $60 on Amazon and $70 on Newegg, but Newegg is going to be putting it on flash sale next week.

Thanks in advance for any help you guys can provide


----------



## wind016

chinmie said:


> if the TFZ X1 is based on the Mifo o5 pro version, i personally think the Mifo Standard version is a much fuller sounding product. the pro version (BA driver) is really limited on the bass and treble extension


Thanks for the response! I just love the feel of The Fragrant Zither headphones. My Kings feel like they cost way more than $70. I know the X1 is a rebrand, but shoot I'd give it a try even if it's just for the looks. Digging the blue metal. I know the Chinese have been killing it in wired IEMs lately. Seems like they are killing it in truly wireless tech too. What's going on???


----------



## howdy

As luck may have it I did receive the Symbios today and they are to hard and do not seal at all for me in regards to the MW07. Back to trying something else. I do have some different Spinfits coming Monday.


----------



## chinmie

wind016 said:


> Thanks for the response! I just love the feel of The Fragrant Zither headphones. My Kings feel like they cost way more than $70. I know the X1 is a rebrand, but shoot I'd give it a try even if it's just for the looks. Digging the blue metal. I know the Chinese have been killing it in wired IEMs lately. Seems like they are killing it in truly wireless tech too. What's going on???



i had a TFZ King and the King Pro once, and i really like the TFZ "house sound", that's why I'm confused why they went with rebranding using the Mifo Pro (BA driver) version. the Standard is more in line with their usual product: Bassy, warm, smooth but detailed treble. the Pro version is more like Etymotic ER4PT but with less sparkle on the treble


----------



## chinmie

howdy said:


> As luck may have it I did receive the Symbios today and they are to hard and do not seal at all for me in regards to the MW07. Back to trying something else. I do have some different Spinfits coming Monday.



did you get the ones with foam core or the peel version? i use my Symbio like regular silicone tips by removing the foams


----------



## howdy

chinmie said:


> did you get the ones with foam core or the peel version? i use my Symbio like regular silicone tips by removing the foams


They have the foam in it. I will try and remove the foam, thanks for the tip.


----------



## Edward Ng

howdy said:


> They have the foam in it. I will try and remove the foam, thanks for the tip.


This is pretty interesting; after seeing how the Symbio tips are assembled, I decided to take the cored-out Comply foams and reduce their length by cutting them down with scissors and reinserting them into the SpinFit tips and now they are supremely comfortable. The trick was that if the foam reaches out to or past the edge of the silicone mushroom, it is extremely uncomfortable. By cutting them down, the foam doesn’t press the edges against the ear canals, feeling much more comfortable. Had I not seen the way the Symbio tips are designed, it would never have occurred to me to cut the foam back to fix this comfort issue with my own home-made hybrid tips.

-Ed


----------



## cheesesteak

Anyone using the RHA trueconnect, that is able to post some impressions compared to the Jabra Elite 65T. Heard the Jabra once and I wasn’t satisfied with it. The MW07 and MTW are too expensive for me. I was satisfied with the audio latency of the AirPods but it was somewhat trashy in terms of audio quality. Thanks so much.


----------



## hifi80sman

Slater said:


> Does anyone own or know anything about the TREBLAB X5?
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07C4WCPG6
> 
> ...


They sound legitimately good.  Clean, clear presentation with some added bass energy.  Honestly, they sound better than the 65t and are a solid TWE option.  Based off memeory, the call quality was good and everyone said they heard me fine (office setting).  I ended up returning them, however, because I wasn’t a fan of the look.  Other than that, they’re one of the better options at that price.


----------



## RobinFood

I went to the store to try the TWZ-1000 today by Zero Audio. I was seriously considering it instead of the NT01AX, because of the Class 1 power Bluetooth in it.

In the end, the sound was not comparable. The sound didn't get as loud, mids were muddier, highs were less extended, buttons push it deeper in your ear canal.

I also compared again with the MW07, and found their tuning and details to be really similar! I probably couldn't tell them apart in a blind test. Maybe a hint more bass on the MW07, but the mids and details/imaging/soundstage sounded really similar. The highs are also both well extended without being sibilant. Mids are super clear, neither forward, nor back, and very revealing. Bad recordings sound bad. Old songs that have the record-player sound has that sound augmented to the point of being annoying. Boosted bass on rap songs is very noticeable. Bass decay is a little slow next to the ER4 (not surprising). ER4 has the mids up front compared to the NT01AX, and a little more clarity. It is especially noticeable in hand claps and finger snaps. Violins and pianos sound more natural on the NT01AX though, and classical or movie soundtracks sound absolutely amazing on the NT01AX. Recent pop with a lot of voice work sometimes sounds grainy and annoying.

I started wearing my Shanling m0 in my shirt pocket when walking in the big city or at the train station, and haven't had a single drop-out since (about 20 cm away from both buds). In my pants pockets, it gets a lot of drops in a busy town, but none in my small home city.

I had a great experience with the Nuarl company as well, I emailed them about a missing pouch in the instructions, and they sent it right away. They also confirmed that they would personally take care of any issues for warranty even though I bought from a re-seller on Amazon, as long as I was in Japan. Overall, I think they are the best true wireless has to offer, along with the Mavins. MW07 sounds solid, but after using the Nuarls for a while, I might have a problem with the battery time.


----------



## clerkpalmer

RobinFood said:


> I went to the store to try the TWZ-1000 today by Zero Audio. I was seriously considering it instead of the NT01AX, because of the Class 1 power Bluetooth in it.
> 
> In the end, the sound was not comparable. The sound didn't get as loud, mids were muddier, highs were less extended, buttons push it deeper in your ear canal.
> 
> ...


These do not appear to be available in the us?


----------



## clerkpalmer

cheesesteak said:


> Anyone using the RHA trueconnect, that is able to post some impressions compared to the Jabra Elite 65T. Heard the Jabra once and I wasn’t satisfied with it. The MW07 and MTW are too expensive for me. I was satisfied with the audio latency of the AirPods but it was somewhat trashy in terms of audio quality. Thanks so much.


The true connect is definitely a step up in sq from the 65t  assuming you are using an iPhone. If you are on android it might be slightly different.


----------



## Dcell7 (Feb 10, 2019)

Bartig said:


> More fans of the brilliant 25 dollar option QCY QS1 here?



I bought the QCY T1C last december. They have been working well though i don’t use them much. Probably 2 hours a week. They sound ok and no problems wth the fit.


----------



## srinivasvignesh

clerkpalmer said:


> The true connect is definitely a step up in sq from the 65t  assuming you are using an iPhone. If you are on android it might be slightly different.



I am using the TrueConnect with my note 8. It uses AAC and the sound quality is definitely good, at least for TWE. With my trueconnects, maybe once in a month (around 2% of the time), there is crazy sound movement from the left to right. If that happens, I would need to put it back in the case, and then take it out. That seems to work and resolve any issues. Overall, pleased with it.


----------



## webvan

MTW review here (in French with some charts) https://www.lesnumeriques.com/casque-audio/sennheiser-momentum-true-wireless-p45779/test.html
They think the SQ is as good as on the WF1000-x  And that the mics are fine for calls...


----------



## howdy

After Lots of Tip rolling I believe I found the right one for the MW07, the Spinfit Cp145. They are providing a great seal and are very comfortable. The bass now hits really hard and I'm not losing any of the high or mids. I'm very happy with them now!


----------



## chrisbriton

Really keen to try these, best fit I’ve found so far is small CP100. Do you find the CP145 to be secure enough without any danger of leaving them in yours ears with the slightly larger bore size? 
Thanks


----------



## howdy

chrisbriton said:


> Really keen to try these, best fit I’ve found so far is small CP100. Do you find the CP145 to be secure enough without any danger of leaving them in yours ears with the slightly larger bore size?
> Thanks


They are on fairly snug, I don't think they would fall off at all.


----------



## RobinFood

I had my first TWE scare. I dropped a bud on the floor and it rolled into oblivion. I spent 5 minutes looking for it hoping to not accidentally step on it. I can see this becoming an issue...


----------



## turbobb

RobinFood said:


> I had my first TWE scare. I dropped a bud on the floor and it rolled into oblivion. I spent 5 minutes looking for it hoping to not accidentally step on it. I can see this becoming an issue...


So I've had this happen, and let's just say all you MW07 owners need to be super careful as acetate is not as strong as ABS or other types of plastic. My left earbud now has a hairline fracture from the drop. Reached out to M&D in the hopes it can be repaired but they mentioned that repair isn't possible with MW07's and the only way is to purchase a replacement bud.


----------



## clerkpalmer

turbobb said:


> So I've had this happen, and let's just say all you MW07 owners need to be super careful as acetate is not as strong as ABS or other types of plastic. My left earbud now has a hairline fracture from the drop. Reached out to M&D in the hopes it can be repaired but they mentioned that repair isn't possible with MW07's and the only way is to purchase a replacement bud.


Sorry man. That sucks. I can’t see the mw07 doing well on a fall to a hard surface. That cover is pretty thin. Probably best to live with the crack unless it’s affecting performance.


----------



## sly_in_the_sky (Feb 12, 2019)

Deleted


----------



## wind016

Does anyone know if Sabbat, Raycon, and Lezii are rebrands of each other?


----------



## RobinFood

Does the Sabbat X12 have annoying buzzing noises when you pause the music sometimes? I thought it wouldn't bother me, but it is quite annoying sometimes depending on the buzz and how long I have to keep the music on pause. I am starting to see the appeal of the Audio Technica true wireless, even if it is huge, it is supposed to be keeping those things separate to avoid beeps and boops.


----------



## chinmie

RobinFood said:


> Does the Sabbat X12 have annoying buzzing noises when you pause the music sometimes? I thought it wouldn't bother me, but it is quite annoying sometimes depending on the buzz and how long I have to keep the music on pause. I am starting to see the appeal of the Audio Technica true wireless, even if it is huge, it is supposed to be keeping those things separate to avoid beeps and boops.



i have two X12, haven't experienced what you've described on both of them


----------



## webvan

No buzzing either, can't even say I've paid attention to the noise floor so that's a good sign   Now that I've put some little "sponge covers" on them they're even better ! I did order the Airpod silicone covers on AE after they got some good feedback here.


----------



## RobinFood

The weird thing about the noise floor is that when it first connects it is clean, just a slight hiss that is almost unnoticeable. The problem is really when I pause it, sometimes it is clean, sometimes I hear a buzzing, and have to start and stop it again to hope it doesn't pause on a buzz...maybe it is defective? I think I will ask the seller if this is normal on the model. The real issue is that sometimes I pause it for a few minutes and have a conversation, just pulling one earbud out.


----------



## Edward Ng

Ah well I finally gave in to the desire and ordered a pair of MW07; I’ll either sell the pair I don’t keep between the MTW and the MW07 if definitely prefer one over the other, or I’ll keep one pair synced to the phone and the other pair synced to my watch, if I end up undecided on which one I like better. They should arrive on Tuesday in my office if all goes well (first time having something sent to my office instead of my house).

Is it fair to say that the nozzles are wider than MTW’s? Are they closer in size to the nozzles on the 1More Triple Drivers? Hoping I won’t need to stock up on yet another size of tips to play with.

-Ed


----------



## chinmie

webvan said:


> No buzzing either, can't even say I've paid attention to the noise floor so that's a good sign   Now that I've put some little "sponge covers" on them they're even better ! I did order the Airpod silicone covers on AE after they got some good feedback here.



mind if you post the picture of that sponge covers? i use my older X12 with that airpod silicones, it increase the midbass slightly. i kinda like it when using it outside. at home i prefer the sound without the silicones 



RobinFood said:


> The weird thing about the noise floor is that when it first connects it is clean, just a slight hiss that is almost unnoticeable. The problem is really when I pause it, sometimes it is clean, sometimes I hear a buzzing, and have to start and stop it again to hope it doesn't pause on a buzz...maybe it is defective? I think I will ask the seller if this is normal on the model. The real issue is that sometimes I pause it for a few minutes and have a conversation, just pulling one earbud out.



hmmm... might be the player app? i only listens to TWS with spotify on my phone.. what app or device (or file types) that you use? just in case i can replicate your setup


----------



## RobinFood

chinmie said:


> mind if you post the picture of that sponge covers? i use my older X12 with that airpod silicones, it increase the midbass slightly. i kinda like it when using it outside. at home i prefer the sound without the silicones
> 
> 
> 
> hmmm... might be the player app? i only listens to TWS with spotify on my phone.. what app or device (or file types) that you use? just in case i can replicate your setup



I am streaming from my Shanling M0 in APTX, but I have tried with AAC and SBC. I get the same issue on my budget phone with youtube, which is where I first noticed the issue, as I think it was feeding me no sound instead of recorded silence for quiet bits in the video. 

I have no issue with my other bluetooth (Trond adapter hooked to my speakers or AKG C50BT)


----------



## turbobb

@clerkpalmer - yeah living with it for now but do have accident protection I purchased just for this that I'll likely invoke at some point if that crack gets worse.

On a different but related topic, while I like the design/finish on the M&D pouch it's just a tad small and can't close completely thus allowing in gunk/dust etc. which is the last thing that super polished case needs...

I had an old Phiaton case lying around and am now using that instead as it's just slightly larger and completely encloses the case offering slightly better protection. Not crazy about the finish (suede-like feeling) but it does the job well:


----------



## Dellsson

turbobb said:


> @clerkpalmer - yeah living with it for now but do have accident protection I purchased just for this that I'll likely invoke at some point if that crack gets worse.
> 
> On a different but related topic, while I like the design/finish on the M&D pouch it's just a tad small and can't close completely thus allowing in gunk/dust etc. which is the last thing that super polished case needs...
> 
> I had an old Phiaton case lying around and am now using that instead as it's just slightly larger and completely encloses the case offering slightly better protection. Not crazy about the finish (suede-like feeling) but it does the job well:



That's actually quite wierd. The pouch is same for me and everytime I see it I wonder how they could fail with that. Looks like an old vagina


----------



## clerkpalmer

Dellsson said:


> Looks like an old vagina



I just spit my coffee out laughing.


----------



## howdy

Edward Ng said:


> Ah well I finally gave in to the desire and ordered a pair of MW07; I’ll either sell the pair I don’t keep between the MTW and the MW07 if definitely prefer one over the other, or I’ll keep one pair synced to the phone and the other pair synced to my watch, if I end up undecided on which one I like better. They should arrive on Tuesday in my office if all goes well (first time having something sent to my office instead of my house).
> 
> Is it fair to say that the nozzles are wider than MTW’s? Are they closer in size to the nozzles on the 1More Triple Drivers? Hoping I won’t need to stock up on yet another size of tips to play with.
> 
> -Ed


You'll probably end up keeping both. They are both great in their own way, I like to listen to both when I get a chance. I have Employee reviews to do at work and they generally take a lot of time and my employees know to leave me alone when I have my headphones on so maybe I'll have some good listening time for the next few weeks.


----------



## clerkpalmer

howdy said:


> You'll probably end up keeping both. They are both great in their own way, I like to listen to both when I get a chance. I have Employee reviews to do at work and they generally take a lot of time and my employees know to leave me alone when I have my headphones on so maybe I'll have some good listening time for the next few weeks.



This is what I decided as well.  I run them both.  As an aside, my Senns suffered from battery drain and connecting while in the case.  I sent them back to Senn last week.  They were very responsive.  No hassle.  Mailed them on Thursday, and new ones arrived today.  That said, I am concered that its a design issue at this point as I've had 2 MTW with the same issue.  We will see if the new ones are any better.  But great customer service.  In contrast, my Jabra 65T failed and it has been a miserable experience.  Jabra support sucks.  They require you to communicate via email and it takes them days if not more than a week to respond.  My headset stopped working 3 weeks ago and they have yet to approve an RMA.  I truly hate them and will never buy another product from them again. The entire process is designed to make me give up.  I finally filed a dispute with PayPal on the grounds that they refuse to honor their warranty.  Paypal will cover me.  Stay away from Jabra.


----------



## hifi80sman (Feb 12, 2019)

For those that are interested, B&O E8 Lightning Deal at Amazon.com for $149.99.  Had to order the Gray.  At $149, had to.  What's also curious, is the listing for the Black version is noted as "Discontinued by the Manufacturer", while the Gray is not.  I assume this is because version 2.0 already has a Black color option, while the Gray does not have a 2.0 sibling.

Also, from what I can tell, the earbuds themselves are exactly the same, just in different colors.  The only change is the case, but for $200 more, I think I'll pass.  The 2.0 case is reported to be $200 separately, so if you really wanted to, you could get this and then the case later and you'd have an extra case for the same price as if you were to just buy the 2.0 now (will be released on 2/14).


----------



## howdy

hifi80sman said:


> For those that are interested, B&O E8 Lightning Deal at Amazon.com for $149.99.  Had to order the Gray.  At $149, had to.  What's also curious, is the listing for the Black version is noted as "Discontinued by the Manufacturer", while the Gray is not.  I assume this is because version 2.0 already has a Black color option, while the Gray does not have a 2.0 sibling.
> 
> Also, from what I can tell, the earbuds themselves are exactly the same, just in different colors.  The only change is the case, but for $200 more, I think I'll pass.  The 2.0 case is reported to be $200 separately, so if you really wanted to, you could get this and then the case later and you'd have an extra case for the same price as if you were to just buy the 2.0 now (will be released on 2/14).


Thats a Great deal! I was rocking mine on Saturday.


----------



## hifi80sman

howdy said:


> Thats a Great deal! I was rocking mine on Saturday.


The build of the earbud itself is really nice, I just hope this one doesn't have any drop out issues!  I've never had a product with so many variances from unit to unit, not only with sound, but also connection.  I've returned so many I'm sure my photo has been circulated throughout Best Buy.  Time to put that blonde wig to good use!


----------



## mikp

WesennTony said:


> The spinfit tips expand the sound stage and frequency range a bit, and also make them more resolving. On the flip side seems make me more fatigue for long-time listening. The fit is perfect, though, and fit into the case without any issue.



Got my assortment of spinfits,100,145 and 155. 145 and 155 fits the mavin, dont understand the hype but these fit good in my ear. Have a box of ali and stock tips, so far these ifts the best so far.

Kind of like the boomy foam on the mavin, but not the fiddling around after taking them out to talk to people.


----------



## howdy

hifi80sman said:


> The build of the earbud itself is really nice, I just hope this one doesn't have any drop out issues!  I've never had a product with so many variances from unit to unit, not only with sound, but also connection.  I've returned so many I'm sure my photo has been circulated throughout Best Buy.  Time to put that blonde wig to good use!


Just like your Avatar, that would be hilarious. Everyone would be like, hay, it's David Lee Roth. Get the guy what ever He wants.


----------



## Bob24 (Feb 12, 2019)

The B&O E8 2.0 are available for pre order on Amazon: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Bang-Olufsen-Wireless-Bluetooth-Charging-Black/dp/B07MHJ28YM

Hard to say for sure, but it looks like to me the case might be the only change. Maybe they should be called 1.1 rather than 2.0 if I am correct


----------



## hifi80sman

howdy said:


> Just like your Avatar, that would be hilarious. Everyone would be like, hay, it's David Lee Roth. Get the guy what ever He wants.


My "Avatar"?!  That's a photo I took for a shoot in '83.  I have short hair now.


----------



## Slater

hifi80sman said:


> My "Avatar"?!  That's a photo I took for a shoot in '83.  I have short hair now.



Hummala bebhuhla zeebuhla Boobuhla
Hummala bebhuhla zeebuhla bop


----------



## tomscy2000 (Feb 13, 2019)

RobinFood said:


> Just got the Nuarl  NT01AX....OMG, my mind is blown away by them at the moment. They look absolutely stunning and sound. They remind me of my of my ER4XR, it's hard to believe that they are wireless...tons of details, a realistic soundstage, and a bass slightly above pure neutral. Listening to live albums now to test them properly, and you can hear the reverb in the halls they are playing. Excellent separation between the singers and the instruments. Everything sounds beautiful and realistic.
> 
> That said, the box they came in can go to hell. They were fixed to thin cardboard, and I accidentally ripped them out, and I am being paranoid about damaging the nozzle cosmetically. I shouldn't worry about that, since it is not much worse than pulling off a tight eartip, is it?! The carrying box is also meh. It has a small button that opens a latch and feels kind of cheap. The button is super hard to push with long-ish nails too. that being said it is small. If you have any questions ask me. I will probably get a better review up after playing with for a while.
> 
> Edit: Can't stop listening...Nuarl motto is natural and neutral, HDSS is a certification that the sound has as little coloring as possible. That is my preffered sound sig, so keep that in mind, but based on first few hours I like the sound of these even more than the MW07s I demo-ed a few weeks ago...amazing high mids and highs, great bass when called for (Killshot bass drop sounded amazing), and very nice detailed mids. The interface is clunky so far (not used to it), but I love the sound coming out of this tiny driver!



Have you heard the NT01b? I bought my wife the 01b a while ago and thought the SQ was not bad at all --- pleasant and balanced. I've heard that the 01AX is identical to the 01b in SQ (it also has HDSS), and that the only difference is battery life and dual sided voice communication, rather than single sided.

There's also now AVIOT, which seems to be the same type of OEM unit as the NUARL, but with flashier colors/design: http://aviot.jp/


----------



## RobinFood

tomscy2000 said:


> Have you heard the NT01b? I bought my wife the 01b a while ago and thought the SQ was not bad at all --- pleasant and balanced. I've heard that the 01AX is identical to the 01b in SQ (it also has HDSS), and that the only difference is battery life and dual sided voice communication, rather than single sided.
> 
> There's also now AVIOT, which seems to be the same type of OEM unit as the NUARL, but with flashier colors/design: http://aviot.jp/



I haven't tried the other ones, but the 01b is the same except without the new aptx chip that is supposed to be more stable too.
That said, I don't notice much of a difference between the aptx and aac connection.

I didn't try the new Aviot though, it was released this Saturday. Early reviews seem to say it has connection problems.
I contacted Nuarll about the beeps, they said it is a known issue under investigation now, and they hope to fix it with a firmware update sometime in the future...


----------



## Slater

Connection problems seem to be the issue with the majority of TWS earphones.

Which is understandable given the difficulty in engineering TWS.

Many have partial or full aluminum shells. They are physically limited in size (forcing compromises with regard to antenna size/design). Being stuck in the ear doesn’t help, because the human body absorbs 2.4ghz microwave radiation. And they not only have to maintain connectivity with the source but also one another.


----------



## BigZ12

Bob24 said:


> The B&O E8 2.0 are available for pre order on Amazon: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Bang-Olufsen-Wireless-Bluetooth-Charging-Black/dp/B07MHJ28YM
> 
> Hard to say for sure, but it looks like to me the case might be the only change. Maybe they should be called 1.1 rather than 2.0 if I am correct


Does anybody know the specs?
AAC/AptX (HD?) 
BT 4.2 I see, same as 1.0?


----------



## Bob24

BigZ12 said:


> Does anybody know the specs?
> AAC/AptX (HD?)
> BT 4.2 I see, same as 1.0?



The 1.0 has SBC and AAC to my knowledge (but no AptX). By the look of it the 2.0 are only getting an updated case and are likely to be the same.


----------



## hifi80sman

Bob24 said:


> The 1.0 has SBC and AAC to my knowledge (but no AptX). By the look of it the 2.0 are only getting an updated case and are likely to be the same.


There's no indication anything changed, as I would imagine it would appear in a marketing piece (improved calls, better sound, etc.).

However, for what it's worth, this guy seems to suggest the mic for calls and sound has improved (brighter, more detailed).  It's most likely the same and just updated firmware or perhaps it's just the variance from 1.0 unit to unit that many have mentioned here (sound, connection).


----------



## hifi80sman

Slater said:


> Hummala bebhuhla zeebuhla Boobuhla
> Hummala bebhuhla zeebuhla bop


So, you like my ringtone, eh!  LOL!


----------



## Chineseboy555 (Feb 14, 2019)

I need all you guys opinions about TWS... if I wanna buy true wireless , I’m supra basshead love superpower bass love warm sound .. what tws that all you guys recommend??? best top 3 tws supra bass?... thank you very much from my heart ...


----------



## farisq

turbobb said:


> Update on the Timmkoo TIK-T1
> - battery life is outstanding, I got 6hrs and 52mins (using the BT Battery Widget as a tracker) listening at higher volume ~75% on way to work (note: these are a little lower in volume vs. other TWEs so the level would've only shown as ~50-60% on most other TWEs) and then at about 50% volume at work, I took a 30 minute break during a meeting with some shorter breaks here and there in between but they always remain connected. I believe they'll easily match or exceed the mfr's claim of 4.5hrs playback time
> - phone calls are quite good on my end; as mentioned audible queues when hanging up are played only through the right bud but call is handled on both buds - they sound better than other TWEs for some reason but I've yet to test how it sounds from recipient end; will be rigging up a test to simulate being outdoors and on a plane and recording that on another phone, just gotta figure out how to port that back so I can post it here
> - connectivity - only had one minor glitch on the way back home from work but otherwise it's been rock solid with no drops
> ...


anymore update on this, I'm curious...
And where to get this? couldn't find on Ali


----------



## Bartig (Feb 14, 2019)

wind016 said:


> Does anyone know if Sabbat, Raycon, and Lezii are rebrands of each other?


Yes, just another design that sells to everyone who wants to put their brand on it. Ordered the Sabbat X12 for 38 euros/ 43 dollar. Can't wait.



RobinFood said:


> Does the Sabbat X12 have annoying buzzing noises when you pause the music sometimes? I thought it wouldn't bother me, but it is quite annoying sometimes depending on the buzz and how long I have to keep the music on pause. I am starting to see the appeal of the Audio Technica true wireless, even if it is huge, it is supposed to be keeping those things separate to avoid beeps and boops.


Hmm, before spending that much on tws, have you tried the QCY QS1? They're 25 dollar and amazing! Full bodied and balanced sound, well extended and fairly detailed. Very pleasant sound signature.


----------



## Slater (Feb 14, 2019)

Bartig said:


> Yes, just another design that sells to everyone who wants to put their brand on it. Ordered the Sabbat X12 for 38 euros/ 43 dollar. Can't wait.
> 
> 
> Hmm, before spending that much on tws, have you tried the QCY QS1? They're 25 dollar and amazing! Full bodied and balanced sound, well extended and fairly detailed. Very pleasant sound signature.



All I see on Aliexpress is $72-$80. Where u getting it for $25?

Also, I see QS1 and QS1 Mini.

Is it the same thing, or are they 2 different models?


----------



## Bartig

Slater said:


> All I see on Aliexpress is $72-$80. Where u getting it for $25?
> 
> Also, I see QS1 and QS1 Mini.
> 
> Is it the same thing, or are they 2 different models?


They're the same! Wrote a review about them too, if you're interested.


----------



## RobinFood

Bartig said:


> Yes, just another design that sells to everyone who wants to put their brand on it. Ordered the Sabbat X12 for 38 euros/ 43 dollar. Can't wait.
> 
> 
> Hmm, before spending that much on tws, have you tried the QCY QS1? They're 25 dollar and amazing! Full bodied and balanced sound, well extended and fairly detailed. Very pleasant sound signature.



I haven't tried any budget options. There is just way too many shady TWE on the market coming in from China and paying for reviews on Amazon. I wanted something reliable, stable, with a neutral sound and APTx support. I am still not going over 200$, so far away from the price of other flagship TWE earbuds. This one ticks quite a few boxes, but it doesn't do everything I want just yet.

I feel like the TWE scene is like the wearable scene. Nothing feels polished or finished yet, everything has issues and compromises. It all feels like it is in Alpha, so to speak. I am not sure I will keep these either, the ground sound bothers me more since I noticed it, and I find myself often wishing for that ambient mode. Cycling from APTx to AAC is not much, if any, noticeable upgrade. Going back to the ER4XR, after my ears readjust to the lighter bass, I am hit by all the micro details I was missing and that adds so much to the listening experience. 

But then, going to bed, I just love that freedom of listening to a few tunes easily without dealing with the wires rubbing against my blanket, and not having to coil everything in the dark. Going out in a rush, I can easily slip them on without having to uncoil anything, and put them back in a second. I can just listen to a song easily and put them away.


----------



## Bartig

RobinFood said:


> I haven't tried any budget options. There is just way too many shady TWE on the market coming in from China and paying for reviews on Amazon. I wanted something reliable, stable, with a neutral sound and APTx support. I am still not going over 200$, so far away from the price of other flagship TWE earbuds. This one ticks quite a few boxes, but it doesn't do everything I want just yet.
> 
> I feel like the TWE scene is like the wearable scene. Nothing feels polished or finished yet, everything has issues and compromises. It all feels like it is in Alpha, so to speak. I am not sure I will keep these either, the ground sound bothers me more since I noticed it, and I find myself often wishing for that ambient mode. Cycling from APTx to AAC is not much, if any, noticeable upgrade. Going back to the ER4XR, after my ears readjust to the lighter bass, I am hit by all the micro details I was missing and that adds so much to the listening experience.
> 
> But then, going to bed, I just love that freedom of listening to a few tunes easily without dealing with the wires rubbing against my blanket, and not having to coil everything in the dark. Going out in a rush, I can easily slip them on without having to uncoil anything, and put them back in a second. I can just listen to a song easily and put them away.


I've got the same. You've got to look really, really good to find a promising one. Often models are offered under 23 brand names, only reading user reviews of the eight brand you discover they're really a piece of crap. The QS1 is not that though. So glad I found it and took the shot. My feeling wasn't wrong.

I actually don't expect the Sabbat X12 or the Tronsmart Spunky to be better. Airdots are way worse too. Really, if you want to try and see how good affordable tws can be, I'd really recommend this QCY.


----------



## chinmie

Bartig said:


> Yes, just another design that sells to everyone who wants to put their brand on it. Ordered the Sabbat X12 for 38 euros/ 43 dollar. Can't wait.
> 
> 
> Hmm, before spending that much on tws, have you tried the QCY QS1? They're 25 dollar and amazing! Full bodied and balanced sound, well extended and fairly detailed. Very pleasant sound signature.



QCY QS1 and the T1C are the same thing, right? (also the same as the Dudios Zeus Air)? funny that the company has two name for the same exact product

i might check them out just for fun. if i don't like it it would be a good gift for relatives


----------



## Bartig

chinmie said:


> QCY QS1 and the T1C are the same thing, right? (also the same as the Dudios Zeus Air)? funny that the company has two name for the same exact product
> 
> i might check them out just for fun. if i don't like it it would be a good gift for relatives


I believe you'll like them far more.  

I've listened to both the QS1 and T1C and tested both their connectivity and battery life. The official reading of QCY is that the QS1 has a better chip set for a more stable connection, but I really didn't encounter any difference. I just think they changed their name because the T1 was the name of an older, crappy product of them.


----------



## nc8000 (Feb 14, 2019)

Official release of the Beoplay E8 2.0 today and in the blog on their Danish web site they confirm that the actual earbuds are identical with the old (except for colour choices), the only difference is the charging case

https://bocopenhagen.dk/beoplay-e8-...il&utm_term=0_cb004bc382-23fda2fcd3-320068413


----------



## clerkpalmer

I guess "if it aint broke ..." but I have a hard time seeing these competing in the frothy market.

As an aside, for the chi-fi guys here, what's the best sounding one to try?


----------



## MulberryMadness (Feb 14, 2019)

Bartig said:


> Yes, just another design that sells to everyone who wants to put their brand on it. Ordered the Sabbat X12 for 38 euros/ 43 dollar. Can't wait.
> 
> 
> Hmm, before spending that much on tws, have you tried the QCY QS1? They're 25 dollar and amazing! Full bodied and balanced sound, well extended and fairly detailed. Very pleasant sound signature.


@Bartig , I clicked on the Amazon link your blog links to, out-of-stock on that particular...but rt below, another suggested qcy model @29.99, then I clicked on the 'qcy factory' to see all the qcy models currently carried by AMZ, u say the t1c is not as good, but what about those in the qcy factory list? T1 Pro, clicked on that, got me to 3 versions under that link, t2 is the top/expensive @49.99. Anyone tried those, compared to others?

https://www.amazon.com/Upgraded-Wireless-Headphones-Lightweight-Bluetooth/dp/B07JZ455HD/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1550172675&sr=8-4&keywords=QCY+Factory&th=1

Can't get a direct link to the T2 model-which seems the latest model with longest runtime, click on the link to T1 Pro from above, then you'll see the 3 options, it's the Linpa which can be ordered from Amz & fullfilled via Amz/Linpa and get it tomorrow!
*Linpa World T2 *

Ya, so many rebrands of cheap Chi-Fi gear, almost imposslble to navigate, reason when my Bose qc30's bit the dust for the 3rd time, I simply had to order a quick replacement that I knew wasn't going to be the unreliably cheap Chi-Fi, and went with the 'spendy' old-style neck band, and proven qualcomm chip. Fiios F1 for $40. then again, one comment to headphonia's lack luster review, claims these 'suck' https://www.headfonia.com/review-fiio-fb1/ , though there is no actual review of how these sound (reviewer couldn't get a good fit with bulky size)

BTW, 1st qc30 was replaced under warranty when the flimsy usb charging port on the neckband 'pushed' inwards to the point I couldn't get it to charge anymore after 6mo. 2nd pair replaced past warranty by Bose gratis, when started getting electrical connection 'shorts' inside the neckband such that the power light would blink wrong colors before refusing to charge. 

Similar happened on the 3rd set, the remote is moisture sealed but inside the quality must be poor, as I was getting a 'beeping' warning sound coming through the earpieces, which was for 'stuck' on max setting volume shorting through either up or down toggle, had to quickly press one of those buttons to get rid of the loud annoying warning beeping, then it worked until it finally died and got a red light(error msg) when I plugged in the usb charging cable, super short temp yellow light, before quickly going to red. Enough of Bose qc30 poor quality components...done with that company. If they come out with a $300 TWE with ANC, I'm going to pass, way too spendy for such poor quality..reading Senn MTW gives me same anxiety over poor quality components/construction/software/firmware


----------



## Bartig

MulberryMadness said:


> @Bartig , I clicked on the Amazon link your blog links to, out-of-stock on that particular...but rt below, another suggested qcy model @29.99, then I clicked on the 'qcy factory' to see all the qcy models currently carried by AMZ, u say the t1c is not as good, but what about those in the qcy factory list? T1 Pro, clicked on that, got me to 3 versions under that link, t2 is the top/expensive @49.99. Anyone tried those, compared to others?
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/Upgraded-Wireless-Headphones-Lightweight-Bluetooth/dp/B07JZ455HD/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1550172675&sr=8-4&keywords=QCY+Factory&th=1
> 
> ...


Hmm, will look into the Amazon link, thank you. I didn't know Linpa, but when looking for it, I assume that it's just another off-brand putting their logo on anything they can. I'm going to avoid the Linpa T2 for now...


----------



## hifi80sman (Feb 14, 2019)

nc8000 said:


> Official release of the Beoplay E8 2.0 today and in the blog on their Danish web site they confirm that the actual earbuds are identical with the old (except for colour choices), the only difference is the charging case
> 
> https://bocopenhagen.dk/beoplay-e8-...il&utm_term=0_cb004bc382-23fda2fcd3-320068413


Nice link.  That's exactly what it looked like, given none of the marketing pieces touted anything other than the updated case.  It's a bit of a reach at $350 vs. the $200 or so the 1.0 is going for now.  If they upgraded the driver, added aptX, and moved to BT 5, that would make for a compelling upgrade.  With other HPs in my collection, I notice I can tell a difference when toggling between AAC and aptX (Galaxy s8) over Spotify (320 kbps).


----------



## cheesesteak

Just got RHA Trueconnect. Can anyone confirm that it doesn't charge using a USB C to USB C cable but only charges using the supplied USB C to USB A one.


----------



## Chineseboy555

clerkpalmer said:


> I guess "if it aint broke ..." but I have a hard time seeing these competing in the frothy market.
> 
> As an aside, for the chi-fi guys here, what's the best sounding one to try?


yes!


----------



## MulberryMadness (Feb 15, 2019)

Bartig said:


> Hmm, will look into the Amazon link, thank you. I didn't know Linpa, but when looking for it, I assume that it's just another off-brand putting their logo on anything they can. I'm going to avoid the Linpa T2 for now...


 link you provided on Amazon was to "QCY Factory", which I clicked on to get their storefront to see the other choices. Link from "QCY" seems to be the exact same TWE's in question: https://www.amazon.com/QCY-Bluetoot...DDYSGPPRFZE&psc=1&refRID=RFE84S9QCDDYSGPPRFZE

Uggh, I suppose I could write a more detailed description, but I wonder if my life is worth more than the time it would take to describe the sound from the $40 Fiio FB1s as they 'suck' or maybe sound worse than heaping sacks of donkey manure...is that too harsh?, more like they sound like $.99cents to me. Such an offensive abomination that it reminds me of this Dave Chappelle Mitsubshi commercial. I'd be like Dave and be sayin...What ru doing? "I'm serious!" "You've got to get out of this car" as he shoves her out the door saying "that dancing is maknig my penis soft"


That crazy frail/breaking up with distortion bass, awful vocal reproduction of the FB1, is making my penis soft, lol....yep, that's what I'm going to do to these FB1s, kick them out the door ASAP. But can I find something else that will make me say as in the parody ad "Now that is what I call dancing!" Even this ultra low-fi sound on this low res youtube vid, sounds simply horrible on the FB1 when I'm used to how it sounds on the QC30.
@2:47 the FB1's bass just 'crackles&rattles' like the driver is made of paper and is vibrating with ferocity--- will start to self-destruct anytime into dust, trying to handle it, not really that low fr bass either that it does not handle well at all.



Compared to the QC30's I know well from using past 2+yrs, the FB1 is nearly void of any redeeming qualities, so vapid/limp/weak/completely lifeless is the bass compared to the QC30s which are massive bassheads in comparison. I thought the SQ on the QC30's was at best fair, now compared to the FB1, QC30s are lightyears ahead, though in comparison to Senn HD600, HD600 are in a different galaxy altogether from the QC30s. Going to return the FB1s to Amazon, soon as I decide what else I could buy <$100 that actually has decent sound...I guess I'm far more critical than I realized, really bummed out rt now, need something better, much better SQ... fast.

OMG, I think I'm going to be ill, tried unsuccessfully to listen to this, which sounds quite fine on QC30
Perlman never better doing Chinese influenced sound on his Strat.


, just wicked awesome on better HP's; but is an absolute abomination, complete butchering of what the sound should be like when played through the FB1. FiiO should be ashamed they put the FB1 on the market, who the heck did the tuning for these, they need their hearing examined.


----------



## KarimLeVallois

hifi80sman said:


> Nice link.  That's exactly what it looked like, given none of the marketing pieces touted anything other than the updated case.  It's a bit of a reach at $350 vs. the $200 or so the 1.0 is going for now.  If they upgraded the driver, added aptX, and moved to BT 5, that would make for a compelling upgrade.  With other HPs in my collection, I notice I can tell a difference when toggling between AAC and aptX (Galaxy s8) over Spotify (320 kbps).



Yeah, people are not going to pay the extra just for a wireless case, that's ridiculous! I sold my 1 year old E8s for £100 and haven't looked back.


----------



## mattwardfh

cheesesteak said:


> Just got RHA Trueconnect. Can anyone confirm that it doesn't charge using a USB C to USB C cable but only charges using the supplied USB C to USB A one.



I plugged mine into the USB-C charger for my MacBook (via a C-toC cable) and it charged, no problem.


----------



## cheesesteak

mattwardfh said:


> I plugged mine into the USB-C charger for my MacBook (via a C-toC cable) and it charged, no problem.


Weird, mine can’t be charged either from the macbook charger or the charger itself. Only the RHA cable works.


----------



## srinivasvignesh

I have not used the Macbook Pro charger, but have tried Anker Cable/wall charger, and the Mi Powerbank charger, cable. Both of those work just fine without any issues.  I did notice that the RHA provided cable outputs less power, maybe to protect the device.


----------



## cheesesteak

mattwardfh said:


> I plugged mine into the USB-C charger for my MacBook (via a C-toC cable) and it charged, no problem.


 
Is the c to c cable and the charger from Apple?


----------



## cheesesteak

Found this thread on reddit which shows that older rha products has these issues.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.re.../721qi2/charging_rha_ma750_or_ma650_wireless/

Didn’t expect the product to have such a fault.


----------



## srinivasvignesh

Talking about RHA, the sound quality is pretty darn good, and the battery life is excellent. However, I do have an issue when I turn my head the sound cuts out to the right, buzzes and stabilises eventually in a couple of seconds. Is this common or do the new batches solve this problem?  

Even my Sabbat X12 Pro has much more rock solid connection.


----------



## hifi80sman

srinivasvignesh said:


> Talking about RHA, the sound quality is pretty darn good, and the battery life is excellent. However, I do have an issue when I turn my head the sound cuts out to the right, buzzes and stabilises eventually in a couple of seconds. Is this common or do the new batches solve this problem?
> 
> Even my Sabbat X12 Pro has much more rock solid connection.


I demoed the RHA at the airport for about 10 mins while waiting for my flight and I did not have any cut outs as I turned my head and paced around the shop.  As far as sound, I thought it was bass-forward and generally sounded good, but it was very consumer grade and only SBC.  Transparency was meh and it sounded congested with various tracks.


----------



## Bob24 (Feb 15, 2019)

Review of the MTW on Engaget: https://www.engadget.com/2019/02/15/sennheiser-momentum-true-wireless-review/

Nothing new really: they confirm the MTW look good, feel good, sound good ... but the controls are not always perfect and the buds have a critical flaw with auto power off and battery management when you place them in their case.

They are tempting to me, but what worries me is that I am not 100% convinced firmware updates can/will fix all the power drain issues while the buds are in their case.


----------



## msooffutt

Bob24 said:


> Review of the MTW on Engaget: https://www.engadget.com/2019/02/15/sennheiser-momentum-true-wireless-review/
> 
> Nothing new really: they confirm the MTW look good, feel good, sound good ... but the controls are not always perfect and the buds have a critical flaw with auto power off and battery management when you place them in their case.
> 
> They are tempting to me, but what worries me is that I am not 100% convinced firmware updates can/will fix all the power drain issues while the buds are in their case.



I want to first, thank everyone on this thread for all of the good recommendations.  This has become my go to place for wireless.  

As far as the MTWs, that’s why I returned mine and kept the masters.  I learned from my AirPods, that I’m only going to get around 2 years out of the battery and that’s without abnormal drainage.  The more you charge and discharge the faster the battery is going to die.  I’ve heard some say to just keep them plugged in whenever possible, but that’s not going to keep the battery from getting killed by having to constantly recharge it.  For $300, I want these things to have as long a lifespan as possible.  If they do fix with firmware I may reconsider, but I’m not in too big of a hurry, and honestly, I have my doubts anyway.  I’m fine with the mw07s, just wish the battery was a little longer.


----------



## cheesesteak

hifi80sman said:


> I demoed the RHA at the airport for about 10 mins while waiting for my flight and I did not have any cut outs as I turned my head and paced around the shop.  As far as sound, I thought it was bass-forward and generally sounded good, but it was very consumer grade and only SBC.  Transparency was meh and it sounded congested with various tracks.



The RHA has AAC. Confirmed using a mac.


----------



## srinivasvignesh

Mine uses AAC with my Note 8 and sounds pretty darn good for a true wireless. I am going to try to exchange my piece on the cutout issues.


----------



## Nailzs

I've had the MTW for a week and tonight I was able to spend more than two - three songs with it. I was worried when I first got them there was something wrong with the right ear bud.The left would stay at 100% and the right would be at about 85% in a short period of time. After 3 charge ups and an hour and a half of use tonight the MTW app was showing 62% left and 63% right. To my ears the MTW sounds better than my MEE Pinnacle P1 or my Etymotic ER4.


----------



## Bob24

KarimLeVallois said:


> Yeah, people are not going to pay the extra just for a wireless case, that's ridiculous! I sold my 1 year old E8s for £100 and haven't looked back.



Well, I’d pay extra for one, but certainly not what B&O are asking for.


----------



## scarfacegt

I just got the jaybird tarah pro.Anyone knows if the sound is the same as the x3? Cause the i can use the sonaworks true-fi app on them.


----------



## scarfacegt

Ps: The jaybird app is really great.You can personalize the sound after your likings.They are decent comfortable (im spoiled,i had the beyerdynamic xelento),the sound is great,they are fully waterproof,14 hours of battery time and only 10 minutes charge i think to get 2 hours of play.Really great bluetooth iems.


----------



## RobinFood

I went to the store today to confirm the hissing sound on the Nuar. It was noisy in the store, but I definately could hear it on the demo unit after listening carefully for a few minutes.

I also tried the demo Glidic -7000 and also found that aac on it didn't work with my gear. It connects but it doesn't play sound.

I also tried the earin m2 again with spinfits this time. I don't like their soundsig still...

I did find something new though. They had the brand new Taotronic Duo Free. They were about 85$, and had a CIEM shape (according to the info). They were covered in silicon like material, and came with the spinfit cp350 oval tips. They were SUPER comfortable! They had touch controls, and one of the best cases I have seen yet. It is made of pleather, and pocket shaped, kind of square-ish, but really flat.

Sound-wise they were quite nice. A very balanced sound with good balance, nice separation and a decent-average soundstage.

Overall they seemed really polished. Their only flaw is that they only supported SBC. They still had a nice sound, but with female vocals SBC seems to give a weird grain to the voice. When I listened to Coldplay, everything was perfect, but when I switched to Adele, I could clearly hear the weird graininess it had. Like listening to a vinyl, but only for the voice. 

It's really too bad. With AAC they would have been super nice. They are maybe the most comfortable TWE I have tried so far.

Anyways, the quest continues. I feel at a weird space. I am not completely satisfied, and it doesn't seem like much of a stretch to go for the MTW or other flagships, but at the same time, maybe I should double down and get something cheap and wait how things go next year. At this point though, I feel like TWE are too useful to not have at least a cheap one. Feels like I opened Pandora's Box.


----------



## srinivasvignesh (Feb 16, 2019)

Bob24 said:


> Well, I’d pay extra for one, but certainly not what B&O are asking for.



Sabbat E12 charges just $4 extra for wireless charging case.


----------



## Bartig

Bob24 said:


> Review of the MTW on Engaget: https://www.engadget.com/2019/02/15/sennheiser-momentum-true-wireless-review/
> 
> Nothing new really: they confirm the MTW look good, feel good, sound good ... but the controls are not always perfect and the buds have a critical flaw with auto power off and battery management when you place them in their case.
> 
> They are tempting to me, but what worries me is that I am not 100% convinced firmware updates can/will fix all the power drain issues while the buds are in their case.


Problems like auto power off are a straight up nono for me. They destroy everything that should be practical about tws. It's why I dislike the Xiaomi Airdots and loathe a generic sports set I have. And why I love the QCY QS1, for not doing anything like that. They just work - like they have to.

I can't imagine what my reaction would be if a set as expensive as the MTW would have those shabby connection problems.


----------



## Bob24 (Feb 16, 2019)

Bartig said:


> Problems like auto power off are a straight up nono for me. They destroy everything that should be practical about tws.



Fully agree. I can’t comprehend how they didn’t detect the issue during their development/testing phases (or if they did, how they though it would be Ok to release a premium product with this kind of problem). It is ruining usability and as soon as they got released the internet was full of users reporting the problem.


----------



## clerkpalmer

Bob24 said:


> Fully agree. I can’t comprehend how they didn’t detect the issue during their development/testing phases (or if they did, how they though it would be Ok to release a premium product with this kind of problem). It is ruining usability and as soon as they got released the internet was full of users reporting the problem.


Is there any way to manually turn off the senns?


----------



## Bob24

clerkpalmer said:


> Is there any way to manually turn off the senns?



I believe it is currently not possible and they have said this is a feature they will be adding in the next firmware update. 

But i hope it’s not their only way to address the problems. Would be a poor work around rather than a fix.


----------



## clerkpalmer

https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/...st-sound-earbuds/coming_soon?status=confirmed

Advance is releasing a new TW on indiegogo. BT 5 and 10mm graphene drivers. Look pretty solid.


----------



## Inear (Feb 16, 2019)

clerkpalmer said:


> https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/...st-sound-earbuds/coming_soon?status=confirmed
> 
> Advance is releasing a new TW on indiegogo. BT 5 and 10mm graphene drivers. Look pretty solid.




Did they start it? I wouldn't mnd supporting them. What is there track recourd? I Wonder how much they might retail for. 1more during CES announced they're going run an Indiegogo campaign as well, and run for $150 and support the latest chip from Qualcomm.


----------



## vladzakhar

I have MTW for 3 weeks now and I didn't have any issues with auto shut off while in the case. If it's the FW bug, why I don't have it? Isn't it suppose to affect all units?


----------



## clerkpalmer

Inear said:


> Did they start it? I wouldn't mnd supporting them. What is there track recourd? I Wonder how much they might retail for. 1more during CES announced they're going run an Indiegogo campaign as well, and run for $150 and support the latest chip from Qualcomm.



Advanced makes good products and has a solid track record. I wouldn’t hesitate to back them personally. They are not some new start up.


----------



## clerkpalmer (Feb 16, 2019)

vladzakhar said:


> I have MTW for 3 weeks now and I didn't have any issues with auto shut off while in the case. If it's the FW bug, why I don't have it? Isn't it suppose to affect all units?


What if the battery in your case is dead? That’s where the problem lies. Then they don’t shut off and stay connected to your phone.  Compounding matters is the fact that they battery in the case is smaller than most and the battery seems to drain in standby. I really like the MTW but for a company that size, they made some questionable choices. The auto shut off problem is a disaster.  That just can’t happen.


----------



## Edward Ng

vladzakhar said:


> I have MTW for 3 weeks now and I didn't have any issues with auto shut off while in the case. If it's the FW bug, why I don't have it? Isn't it suppose to affect all units?


I don’t have this problem either, but I use my pair almost daily. I think it becomes more of a problem for people who don’t use these frequently.

-Ed


----------



## clerkpalmer

Edward Ng said:


> I don’t have this problem either, but I use my pair almost daily. I think it becomes more of a problem for people who don’t use these frequently.
> 
> -Ed


Yes. The battery in the case will drain in standby. So if you don’t use them the battery is dead in the case. Then the buds go back in the case but don’t turn off. Very annoying. Seems like firmware could add an auto shutoff after like 5 minutes so at least they turn off and disconnect.


----------



## vladzakhar

I guess, it's the case problem then. I hope they will fix it. Also, I hope they will add the shut off function for earphones themself to avoid the battery drainage while not in the case and not used.


----------



## chivs688

Any opinions on the Anker Soundcore Liberty Airs? 

Rtings seem to think fairly highly of them, as well as a few other reviews.

Currently trying to decide between them, the RHA Trueconnect's and a couple others.


----------



## chivs688 (Feb 16, 2019)

Any opinions on the Anker Soundcore Liberty Airs?

Rtings seem to think fairly highly of them, as well as a few other reviews.

Currently trying to decide between them, the RHA Trueconnects, Sonys and a couple others around this price point. After a nice comfy pair that isolate well, to wear on the tube and in bed.


----------



## hifi80sman

cheesesteak said:


> The RHA has AAC. Confirmed using a mac.


Interesting.  I probably should have double checked if I had it set with signal quality over sound quality in BT settings.  I may have to give them another try!  Dagnabit.

Sound quality when toggling between SBC and AAC is quite noticeable.  Overall transparency and imaging is superior.  Well implemented SBC sounds grrreat in a vacuum, but once you compare it to AAC or beyond (all else being equal), there is a noticeable difference.  Perhaps not for the typical consumer, but once you start getting into higher-end gear and better drivers, it makes a difference.


----------



## hifi80sman

clerkpalmer said:


> https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/...st-sound-earbuds/coming_soon?status=confirmed
> 
> Advance is releasing a new TW on indiegogo. BT 5 and 10mm graphene drivers. Look pretty solid.


Have you found anything with respect to codecs, USB-C?  Hopefully, it's not just SBC and Micro USB...


----------



## clerkpalmer

hifi80sman said:


> Have you found anything with respect to codecs, USB-C?  Hopefully, it's not just SBC and Micro USB...


Haven’t but I’d be shocked if it didn’t have aac and aptx.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

MTW update:

I had the dreaded "doesn't shut off bug" precisely once, but I noticed something. Plugging the case in immediately shut the buds down. It hasn't happened since (that I recall) but I did notice it when my phone was still connected to them despite being in the case.

Battery life is continuing to impress. My beloved MW07 would start giving me low battery alerts near the end of the workout even if I popped them in literally when I started, but today I was wearing them at home when I had a shake, went to the bathroom, drove to the gym and struggled to find a parking space, ended up a quarter mile away so I had to walk to the gym from there, did the workout, and got back to the car and was about at 20% with no warning hitting. Winner winner.


----------



## Edward Ng

SomeGuyDude said:


> ...Battery life is continuing to impress. My beloved MW07 would start giving me low battery alerts near the end of the workout even if I popped them in literally when I started, but today I was wearing them at home when I had a shake, went to the bathroom, drove to the gym and struggled to find a parking space, ended up a quarter mile away so I had to walk to the gym from there, did the workout, and got back to the car and was about at 20% with no warning hitting. Winner winner.



That seems like a rather HUGE difference, not a small one, in battery life!

-Ed


----------



## hifi80sman

SomeGuyDude said:


> MTW update:
> 
> I had the dreaded "doesn't shut off bug" precisely once, but I noticed something. Plugging the case in immediately shut the buds down. It hasn't happened since (that I recall) but I did notice it when my phone was still connected to them despite being in the case.
> 
> Battery life is continuing to impress. My beloved MW07 would start giving me low battery alerts near the end of the workout even if I popped them in literally when I started, but today I was wearing them at home when I had a shake, went to the bathroom, drove to the gym and struggled to find a parking space, ended up a quarter mile away so I had to walk to the gym from there, did the workout, and got back to the car and was about at 20% with no warning hitting. Winner winner.


Did you have a chicken dinner?  

I wear when I get into the office and they last all the way to lunch, no sweat.  Pop them in the case, grab some grub, then listen to them for the rest of the day.  The MW07 never made it to lunch and the battery warning, which was just a fat bass drop, was just annoying after a while.  Don't get me wrong, they sound fantastic, but at least a firmware update to remove the low-battery warning would be nice.  I'd rather they just shut off.  Although from what I read, a firmware update for the MW07 is not possible...

For an all purpose TWE, the MTW are at the top of the mountain, currently.  The battery drain issue definitely is real if you don't plug in the case daily.  During the work week, I don't have any issues, because once I'm back home, I plug them in.  However, if I do not plug in over the weekend, by Monday, they are dead.


----------



## Nocturnal310 (Feb 16, 2019)

how much better are MTW compared to Elite 65t?
and any new technology or updated models announced for flagship true wireless? should i wait longer?

i ve been commuting in trains a lot lately and not enjoying untangling wires through layers of jackets in winter. also my westone w30's cables are wearing out.
i want to try going wireless if it keeps up with sound quality


----------



## hifi80sman (Feb 16, 2019)

Nocturnal310 said:


> how much better are MTW compared to Elite 65t?
> and any new technology or updated models announced for flagship true wireless? should i wait longer?
> 
> i ve been commuting in trains a lot lately and not enjoying untangling wires through layers of jackets in winter. also my westone 3's cables are wearing out.
> i want to try going wireless if it keeps up with sound quality


Better really depends on what you want to use them for. 

SOUND:  MTW, hands down.  No competition.
CALLS:  65t
AMBIENT: 65t
COMFORT:  MTW (for me), but I can wear both for hours on end.
BATTERY:  65t, but not by much.  65t is quoted at 5, the MTW 4.  Seems to be about accurate.
CONTROLS:  YMMV.  Depends if you like touch controls (MTW) or physical buttons (65t).

Overall, the sound is king for me and I found the 65t bland.  The MTW may not be as good in other areas, but they are competent enough that I can overlook those shortcomings.  Plus, firmware updates should be coming out by March to tighten up some of the issues (calls, battery drain).


----------



## bronco1015

the mtw's sound capabilities, despite the poor eq settings are pretty impressive imo. In other random nes, the touch panel on my m4utw1's has completely died, and now if i fast forward a track from the right earbud, the buds get out of sync in this weird mono space like sound.


----------



## BigZ12

What's the latest firmware for the Beoplay E8? 
Does the update(s) fix the issues with lost connection on the left bud I've read about? Any other annoying bugs?
I have the chance to buy the 2.0 edition for about $280. That's cheap here in expensive Norway. (retail is about $375)
Shall I go for it, or just wait for the firmware update on MTW, and buy that again. (cannot stomach to buy it before it's updated... crackle, mic distortions, battery management...)


----------



## nc8000

BigZ12 said:


> What's the latest firmware for the Beoplay E8?
> Does the update(s) fix the issues with lost connection on the left bud I've read about? Any other annoying bugs?
> I have the chance to buy the 2.0 edition for about $280. That's cheap here in expensive Norway. (retail is about $375)
> Shall I go for it, or just wait for the firmware update on MTW, and buy that again. (cannot stomach to buy it before it's updated... crackle, mic distortions, battery management...)



5.60 and there are still frequent short left unit drop outs


----------



## BigZ12

nc8000 said:


> 5.60 and there are still frequent short left unit drop outs


Ouch  
If they give me the opportunity to return them if I'm not pleased, I'll give them a try. If not, I think I'll cancel my order.


----------



## Bartig

Reading further into twe. I'd like to test more to be able te recommend sets to people. Currently on the brink of buying:

- Mifo o5
- Mpow T3
- Sabbat E12

Any thoughts to take into consideration?


----------



## smaragd

Bartig said:


> Reading further into twe. I'd like to test more to be able te recommend sets to people. Currently on the brink of buying:
> 
> - Mifo o5
> - Mpow T3
> ...


Very impressed with the Sabbat E12 connection and stability. Live and work in Hong Kong where most of the TWE fail to perform reliably due to lots of EMI, RFI and WiFi / Bluetooth interference. Similar to Japan’s crowded metropolitan cities I haven’t experienced any drop outs with the Sabbats. Sounds is good but a bit bass heavy. Works well probably if you’re a bass head though. Sound quality is nevertheless entertaining and engaging but the emphasis on bass and a slight roll off on the highs made me pass... gave it to my daughter for gym use... her boyfriend uses the Havit and also didn’t complain.


----------



## Inear

Difference between Sabbat x12 pro and e12? Are there any good revies out on these?


----------



## 05stisilver

Has anyone tried out the ath-sport7tw? and comparisons versus the Jabra 65t?


----------



## clerkpalmer

05stisilver said:


> Has anyone tried out the ath-sport7tw? and comparisons versus the Jabra 65t?


Yes. At has the edge in sq. And fit. At has some audio lag however.  I like them both. I prefer the AT slightly due to better sq.


----------



## howdy

After reading lots of reviews and to many YouTube reviews in still undecided on what to get for gym use. A big number 1 for me is zero cut outs (connection). Then sound and then battery. I'm usually at the gym 2 hours or less.
I keep thinking between the Mavin and the Earin M2, but im open to any options/Opinions.


----------



## 05stisilver

clerkpalmer said:


> Yes. At has the edge in sq. And fit. At has some audio lag however.  I like them both. I prefer the AT slightly due to better sq.



Thanks for the reply. 

How is the battery life? It says 3.5 hours and also how is the hear through/transparency mode?


----------



## clerkpalmer

05stisilver said:


> Thanks for the reply.
> 
> How is the battery life? It says 3.5 hours and also how is the hear through/transparency mode?


I haven’t tested those features. I believe the verge confirmed - and - blasted the 3.5 hour battery life. Jabra wins there for sure. My primary use for them is the gym so it’s never an issue. I have noticed the case holds a lot of charge and better yet doesn’t seem to drain in standby. It’s a good product. At 199 however you might consider the Bose or RHA.  I had fit issues with RHA but they sound excellent.


----------



## firewatersun

Does anyone have the Sabbat E12 and the MW07 and could hey compare SQ? Obviously I'm not expecting the impossible but I wonder how close they get, if at all


----------



## turbobb

@05stisilver - don't have the RHA but as for the ATH-SPORT7TW, they'll be shipped back tomorrow. The touch controls were flaky on mine and the hear-through would activate on its own randomly. At $199 there are better choices and I'd second the Bose (unless you'll be using for binge watching, they have some latency...).


----------



## turbobb

PSA:  FWIW, Woot has the WF1000X in Like New condition on sale for $59.99. I take it to mean these are Open Box items... I'd jump in but if just one more set of TWE's appear at my doorstep... lol ^_^


----------



## 05stisilver

turbobb said:


> @05stisilver - don't have the RHA but as for the ATH-SPORT7TW, they'll be shipped back tomorrow. The touch controls were flaky on mine and the hear-through would activate on its own randomly. At $199 there are better choices and I'd second the Bose (unless you'll be using for binge watching, they have some latency...).



I was hoping to replace my Jabra Elite Sport for gym/training/bike riding use. I need the hear through mode. I had the 65t but they didn't fit well and hurt my ears after a short period of time.
I have or had (way to many)
Jabra Elite Sport
65t
MTW
Sabbat E12
Jlab Jbuds
TRN BT20 with TRN 80 and Revonext QT2

I'm eyeing the Advanced that is coming out in the next couple of days. But I was expecting that the AT was going to be perfect for my gym use.


----------



## clerkpalmer

05stisilver said:


> I was hoping to replace my Jabra Elite Sport for gym/training/bike riding use. I need the hear through mode. I had the 65t but they didn't fit well and hurt my ears after a short period of time.
> I have or had (way to many)
> Jabra Elite Sport
> 65t
> ...



They are solid for this purpose. One thing they have going is they have a rock solid fit. Best I’ve ever tried actually. The fin is well done. If you’re a runner they would be a very good choice. RHA would fall out breathing heavily....


----------



## Tommy C

05stisilver said:


> I was hoping to replace my Jabra Elite Sport for gym/training/bike riding use. I need the hear through mode. I had the 65t but they didn't fit well and hurt my ears after a short period of time.
> I have or had (way to many)
> Jabra Elite Sport
> 65t
> ...


 the Jabra Elite Sport has the heat-through mode. Not sure if the 65t is an upgrade in that area.


----------



## srinivasvignesh

Inear said:


> Difference between Sabbat x12 pro and e12? Are there any good revies out on these?



The main difference I understand is that X12 Pro is open and you can hear ambient noise pretty well (the fitment is more Airpods style). The E12 is more traditional seal type, that provides isolation.


----------



## 05stisilver

clerkpalmer said:


> They are solid for this purpose. One thing they have going is they have a rock solid fit. Best I’ve ever tried actually. The fin is well done. If you’re a runner they would be a very good choice. RHA would fall out breathing heavily....



Sounds good then. I will give them a try.



Tommy C said:


> the Jabra Elite Sport has the heat-through mode. Not sure if the 65t is an upgrade in that area.



I had them both and ended up selling the 65t due to fitment and it's about time to retire the Elite Sport I have had them since they came out and the battery doesn't even last 2 hours anymore. So I need a suitable replacement.


----------



## chinmie

howdy said:


> After reading lots of reviews and to many YouTube reviews in still undecided on what to get for gym use. A big number 1 for me is zero cut outs (connection). Then sound and then battery. I'm usually at the gym 2 hours or less.
> I keep thinking between the Mavin and the Earin M2, but im open to any options/Opinions.



I've tested my friend's mavin and compare it to my M2. they're a bit similar, but the Mavin have a more engaging sound with more separation, while the M2 has a warmer tone, more relaxed feel and more intimate staging. both equally good sound

comparing price and battery life, the Mavin is a better deal. the M2 wins on size and ambient mode.


----------



## Tommy C (Feb 17, 2019)

05stisilver said:


> Sounds good then. I will give them a try.
> 
> 
> 
> I had them both and ended up selling the 65t due to fitment and it's about time to retire the Elite Sport I have had them since they came out and the battery doesn't even last 2 hours anymore. So I need a suitable replacement.


 I have the Jabra Elite Sport 2nd gen with the 50% longer battery life and although it’s advertised to last 4.5 hrs on a single charge I get around 5.5 hrs if I don’t blast the volume.  I haven’t found a TWE yet with better package of connectivity, battery life and call quality.
The sound quality is adequate for my needs so unless something better pops up I’m gonna run them to the ground at least for now.


----------



## RobinFood

Well, I am pretty sure the Nuarls are going to leave me. For music they are pretty nice, but the beeping and hissing while watching a movie and on calls was too much. What is more is that they just had a 20$ price drop recently. I might pick them up again if I get a message from the company saying that they have a firmware fix for the issue, at the lower price they are now. I also realized how important it is for me to have ambient mode, both at work and at home with the wife and kids. I think I can't really go without that feature. So, maybe go back to the glidic and accept that aac doesn't work on it, or save up for the MTW and hope that they fix it up soon...or just grab the Sabbat earbuds.

One thing I did find really interesting though is how they made SBC sound so good. Actually, all TWE on 5.0 sounds good with my budget phone that only has SBC. I streamed music to my Shanling M0, and while it does not have ANY hissing, SBC really didn't sound very good compared to the TWE sets. I am wondering if it is the tuning that is more bass heavy in most cases, or if bluetooth makes better use of SBC codec.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

Preeeeeeetty sure BT5.0 makes zero difference in terms of how the codecs perform.


----------



## RobinFood

SomeGuyDude said:


> Preeeeeeetty sure BT5.0 makes zero difference in terms of how the codecs perform.



I did read a few places where it said it can transfer data twice as fast, but I am not sure if it is just marketing or just data transfer...


----------



## SomeGuyDude

RobinFood said:


> I did read a few places where it said it can transfer data twice as fast, but I am not sure if it is just marketing or just data transfer...



It can, but that doesn't affect this. It's like talking about USB speeds and their relation to what codec your files are in. USB3.0 doesn't offer any benefits vs USB2.0 when you're playing your mp3s.


----------



## hifi80sman

RobinFood said:


> I did read a few places where it said it can transfer data twice as fast, but I am not sure if it is just marketing or just data transfer...


Also, keep in mind data transfer is dependent on the codec AND the connection quality between the two devices.  If you have a poor connection, the data rate will suffer.  This is why in BT options, there is an ability to select "sound quality" vs. "connection quality".  It's possible one of the devices you're using has poor connection strength, so the bitrate suffers, while BT 5 allows for better coexistence within the 2.4 GHz spectrum, and thus better connection quality.


----------



## chinmie

@SomeGuyDude  how do you compare between the Bose, Senn MTW, and the M&D MW07 on SQ alone and also as a whole package? does the Bose still holds up these days?


----------



## SomeGuyDude

chinmie said:


> @SomeGuyDude  how do you compare between the Bose, Senn MTW, and the M&D MW07 on SQ alone and also as a whole package? does the Bose still holds up these days?



SQ is MW07 > MTW (it's close) > Bose

Whole package is MTW > Bose (it's close) > MW07

Gym use is Bose > MTW > MW07

If my only criteria was taking them to the gym, I'd get the Bose. If battery life wasn't an issue, I'd get the MW07. If SQ is paramount, MW07 is your best bet. If you need good battery life, get the MTW. If having A+ SQ isn't worth an extra $130, the Bose are fantastic.


----------



## Bartig

SomeGuyDude said:


> SQ is MW07 > MTW (it's close) > Bose
> 
> Whole package is MTW > Bose (it's close) > MW07
> 
> ...


I'm so curious how these sound compared to my beloved QCY QS1 - but I don't think anyone has them too, to compare them right?


----------



## SomeGuyDude

Bartig said:


> I'm so curious how these sound compared to my beloved QCY QS1 - but I don't think anyone has them too, to compare them right?



How does a pair of $300 flagships compare to a set of $23 chi-fi? Hmm...


----------



## smaragd (Feb 19, 2019)

SomeGuyDude said:


> How does a pair of $300 flagships compare to a set of $23 chi-fi? Hmm...


The same as comparing a VW Golf with a Porsche...
Both do the job but with a different user experience.


----------



## Inear

1 day left until Adv-sound announces their new TWS.

https://www.adv-sound.com/

I hope it's reasonably priced and 5 hours of battery.


----------



## MulberryMadness

smaragd said:


> The same as comparing a VW Golf with a Porsche...
> Both do the job but with a different user experience.


...true, but...https://jalopnik.com/why-volkswagens-are-the-only-cars-that-can-drive-faster-1540470407 only VW's can drive faster than 280mph, which no Porsche(unmodified/aftermkt tuned) can do no matter how much wealth you have, lol. And too call $300 a 'flagship' only goes to show how feeble/limited these early gen TWEs are. Give it a couple of yrs, we'll see >$1k TWE no doubt. HiFiman & Senn will have 'flagship' TWEs for your $2k+ iphone XS Max+++ in 2025 for only $3k-10k+, I predict!

Comparing $30 chi-fi TWE is fair when $300 TWE 'flagship' are still giving SQ = <$100 wired iems.


----------



## MulberryMadness

Inear said:


> 1 day left until Adv-sound announces their new TWS.
> 
> https://www.adv-sound.com/
> 
> I hope it's reasonably priced and 5 hours of battery.


Given model 3 is $100, guess X will be ~$200...now what about the specs, codec support-what chip did they use...custom MSU, etc?


----------



## MulberryMadness

hifi80sman said:


> Also, keep in mind data transfer is dependent on the codec AND the connection quality between the two devices.  If you have a poor connection, the data rate will suffer.  This is why in BT options, there is an ability to select "sound quality" vs. "connection quality".  It's possible one of the devices you're using has poor connection strength, so the bitrate suffers, while BT 5 _*allows for better coexistence within the 2.4 GHz spectrum, and thus better connection quality*_.


 Don't think that is a good description of how BT 5.0 works.


----------



## 05stisilver

MulberryMadness said:


> Given model 3 is $100, guess X will be ~$200...now what about the specs, codec support-what chip did they use...custom MSU, etc?



I confirmed with Advance no aptx support but they do support aac


----------



## MulberryMadness

Bartig said:


> I'm so curious how these sound compared to my beloved QCY QS1 - but I don't think anyone has them too, to compare them right?


 So I'm wondering, hate how many versions we can't keep strait on these Chi-Fi brands...did you try the KZ7s yet? Seems reddit user thinks they work well with the TRN adapter

https://www.reddit.com/r/headphones/comments/aj0lot/combo_review_trn_bt20_and_kz_zs7/

, which has plenty of hiss when used with sensitive iem, CA, some Shure, etc https://www.headphone.com/blogs/news/campfire-audio-orion-in-ear-monitors-review
"paired with the TRN BT20 wireless Bluetooth adapters, the Orions had very noticeable hiss or white noise. This was also the case with the Monolith THX-AAA Balanced DAC/Amp. With the use of the iFi IEMatch2.5, the problem went away. In short, I recommend having a very low output impedance and quiet source to pair with the Orions. The IEMatch is also handy regardless as it’ll make the Orions work universally."

 incorrect notation that bt20 does only SBC in one review, it has AAC support also, enough to get good review from someone using CIEM planar :https://forum.headphone.com/t/wireless-headphones-yay-or-nay/664/110

Different case, but same BT 5.0 earphones? http://www.thephonograph.net/qcy-t1-pro-touch-control-review/ I might try those, bc they have decent sound isolation.
Was also considering:https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07MHN4Z61/ref=sspa_dk_hqp_detail_aax_0?psc=1



Thank is was this linked article that got me searching for the Tranya T2:https://www.headphonesty.com/2018/06/why-you-should-buy-true-wireless-headphones/

Anyone try those? https://www.amazon.com/Bluetooth-Wi...es/dp/B07KW1ZPVM?ref_=bl_dp_s_web_15077608011

I'm sure I'll drop these into the sink/bathtub, so need to buy 2 pairs at a time, or get some with superior water resistance rating. Though if I just go for the clunky/bulky TRN adapter/KZ 7 setup, I can spend <$100, and wait another 6-12mo for something better in tiny TWEs with longer runtimes, better SQ etc, that more than likely will appear


----------



## hifi80sman

MulberryMadness said:


> Don't think that is a good description of how BT 5.0 works.


As an answer to his specific question, I completely disagree.  I'm not defining BT 5, I'm addressing his specific question with a simple answer.  Based on your responses, I understand you like details, details, details, but sometimes simplicity is genius.


----------



## Morbeas

I just went ahead and bought the Jabra Elite Active in navy and so far I'm very pleased with both call and music quality. The one complaint I have are the included ear tips. Any recommendations for replacing the stock tips with more comfortable options? I'd like to be able to wear them for long stretches of time, if possible.


----------



## clerkpalmer

Anyone think the new Galaxy Buds will offer significant improvements on the current gen?


----------



## Inear

05stisilver said:


> I confirmed with Advance no aptx support but they do support aac




Does aptx be a bigger difference than just supporting aac? Also, you have any idea of battery life, usb-c, price? I assume since it will be on indiegogo, it will be cheaper for early buyers.


----------



## hifi80sman

clerkpalmer said:


> Anyone think the new Galaxy Buds will offer significant improvements on the current gen?


In terms of audio quality, I'm not optimistic.  Samsung has a history of making great flagship products, but the accessories are merely "consumer-grade", although I suppose that fits into the business strategy and overall profitability.  It may have the proprietary "Samsung HD" codec (whatever that is, might just be some DSP magic) and will sound "good", but I don't think it'll be anything like the MW07, MTW, or even the E8.  The target buyer is likely someone NOT on these forums.


----------



## hifi80sman

Inear said:


> Does aptx be a bigger difference than just supporting aac? Also, you have any idea of battery life, usb-c, price? I assume since it will be on indiegogo, it will be cheaper for early buyers.


Depends.

Apple Music over iPhone (AAC), sounds great.  If you're a Spotify (320 kbps) user, Spotify (320 kbps) over Android aptX or LDAC sounds better than Spotify (320 kbps) over iPhone AAC.

Spotify (320 kbps) over Android aptX or LDAC, sounds better than Spotify (320 kbps) over Android AAC.

I have both an iPhone Xs Max (AAC) and a Samsung Galaxy s8 (aptX & LDAC).  Using some HPs with multi-connect, I can easily A/B and toggle between them.  Also, if you've enabled Developer Options on your Android device, you can easily toggle between the codecs.


----------



## chinmie

MulberryMadness said:


> I'm sure I'll drop these into the sink/bathtub, so need to buy 2 pairs at a time, or get some with superior water resistance rating. Though if I just go for the clunky/bulky TRN adapter/KZ 7 setup, I can spend <$100, and wait another 6-12mo for something better in tiny TWEs with longer runtimes, better SQ etc, that more than likely will appear



i dunked the Mifo o5 in a glass of water, used it in showers and bathtubs, it survives just fine. now that is a product that brings me a peace of mind 



Inear said:


> Does aptx be a bigger difference than just supporting aac? Also, you have any idea of battery life, usb-c, price? I assume since it will be on indiegogo, it will be cheaper for early buyers.



between Aptx and AAC, i think the difference is really minimal unless i over-analyze. to my experience the AAC has a slightly smoother treble and fuller bass feel, while Aptx is slightly cleaner/leaner in bass and a bit more sparkle in treble. but again, the difference is really small that most of the time i don't care.

SBC though, it's more squashed/flatter in soundstage depth and a bit harsher in treble. although hearing garage rock or indie music on SBC are rather exciting 

all in all, i nowadays i just view them like changing cables: each has their uses


----------



## Edward Ng

My MW07s came in yesterday and I’m now playing around with fit and tip selection. So far, so good, although I have yet to do a proper A/B comparison against my MTWs. Am I the only person who finds that no fit wings at all is better than even the small ones? I must have really small ears (but average/slightly larger than average size ear canals, since I tend to fit medium size tips from all brands or the occasional large size).

-Ed


----------



## Bartig

chinmie said:


> i dunked the Mifo o5 in a glass of water, used it in showers and bathtubs, it survives just fine. now that is a product that brings me a peace of mind
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yes! Thank you! Tuning is so much more important than codecs. 

Some of the worst wireless headphones and IEMs I have have Aptx, the best sounding ones all don't.


----------



## robcf3

The Advanced true wireless buds are on Indiegogo now: https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/model-x-true-wireless-the-best-sound-earbuds#/

Impressed with a lot of that but going to be the guy that whines about no USB-C in 2019...


----------



## clerkpalmer

robcf3 said:


> The Advanced true wireless buds are on Indiegogo now: https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/model-x-true-wireless-the-best-sound-earbuds#/
> 
> Impressed with a lot of that but going to be the guy that whines about no USB-C in 2019...



Backer Number 6 here.  For $69, it's a no brainer.  I'll bet they'll be at least as good as most $200 offerings.  Advanced should put SQ as a priority given their heritage. Looking forward to getting them - hopefully on time.


----------



## webvan

What's so special about them ? I noticed they mentioned "noise isolation" in the summary but it turns out it's just passive isolation up to 23dB...that's bound to give some bad "thumping" when walking/running too.


----------



## Inear

robcf3 said:


> The Advanced true wireless buds are on Indiegogo now: https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/model-x-true-wireless-the-best-sound-earbuds#/
> 
> Impressed with a lot of that but going to be the guy that whines about no USB-C in 2019...



Looks like USB-C to me, based off the schematics at end of the page.


----------



## mikp

robcf3 said:


> The Advanced true wireless buds are on Indiegogo now: https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/model-x-true-wireless-the-best-sound-earbuds#/
> 
> Impressed with a lot of that but going to be the guy that whines about no USB-C in 2019...



Sorry, but I dont see anything special here that has not been pumped out by countless other indiegogo\kickstarter campaigns.
I would not chance it with tws on any crowd platform. Think I have 10 different ones saved on indiegogo, fun reading comments if I ever decide to try kickstarter again.


----------



## robcf3

Inear said:


> Looks like USB-C to me, based off the schematics at end of the page.



To me, both the schematics and the promo pic on the email both look like Micro USB, as it has that v-shaped port design vs the rounded USB-C port. May be wrong, although if I am, strange they don't mention the charging port whatsoever when I think USB-C is a pretty appealing feature to many right now.


----------



## clerkpalmer

mikp said:


> Sorry, but I dont see anything special here that has not been pumped out by countless other indiegogo\kickstarter campaigns.
> I would not chance it with tws on any crowd platform. Think I have 10 different ones saved on indiegogo, fun reading comments if I ever decide to try kickstarter again.



10 mm graphene coated drivers and a company with a solid track record of  making both low end affordable and very high end headphones makes this MUCH more interesting then some brand new indiegogo start up.  I think there is virtually zero chance these won't be delivered and zero chance they won't punch above their price class.  Could they be delayed?  Most likely but I've just learned to accept that virtually every crowdfunded product will be.  Even Audeze had trouble delivering the Mobius on time.  For $69, I'll forget about these until they show up at my door whenever that may be.


----------



## MulberryMadness

I kind of get tired/fatigued from reading claims by indie US manufacturers, who should be held to same standards as their likewise less expensive ‘Chi-Fi’ counterparts (since many of these American/EU companies are getting the whole unit made in China, or obtain part from).


Prime example is this Advanced Sound Model-X announcement for indiego. Just $69 if you order soon, but typical BS marketing on this page, the usual we used a graphene driver…BORING!!!, our TWEs run all day long(only with included charging case, actual runtime of the earbuds could be as little as 1hr, lol) or years/even decades with optional nuclear powered charging case:


https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/model-x-true-wireless-the-best-sound-earbuds#/


Anyone think there is a Realtek SoC in these, or something even cheaper...24bit signal path, integral 'high quality' DAC like Qualcomms premium SoC, qcc5121???

Supported Codec: AAC-LC / AAC / SBC

Wait until May? What, we will likely get Qualcomm qcc5121, in iMore & Mavin-ANC TWEs (for those not keeping track, qcc5121 has built-in hybrid style ANC) by summer also, I’ll wait for reviews and pass on AS’s BS mktng.


----------



## chinmie

clerkpalmer said:


> 10 mm graphene coated drivers and a company with a solid track record of  making both low end affordable and very high end headphones makes this MUCH more interesting then some brand new indiegogo start up.  I think there is virtually zero chance these won't be delivered and zero chance they won't punch above their price class.  Could they be delayed?  Most likely but I've just learned to accept that virtually every crowdfunded product will be.  Even Audeze had trouble delivering the Mobius on time.  For $69, I'll forget about these until they show up at my door whenever that may be.



the Sabbat also uses 10mm drivers, but i don't think it was graphene though. it would be interesting to see how the advanced fare against them


----------



## clerkpalmer

MulberryMadness said:


> I kind of get tired/fatigued from reading claims by indie US manufacturers, who should be held to same standards as their likewise less expensive ‘Chi-Fi’ counterparts (since many of these American/EU companies are getting the whole unit made in China, or obtain part from).
> 
> 
> Prime example is this Advanced Sound Model-X announcement for indiego. Just $69 if you order soon, but typical BS marketing on this page, the usual we used a graphene driver…BORING!!!, our TWEs run all day long(only with included charging case, actual runtime of the earbuds could be as little as 1hr, lol) or years/even decades with optional nuclear powered charging case:
> ...



Ouch. A company like Advanced has a lot to lose if these are a big fail.  Accountability is part of it.  These are priced similarly to their Chi-Fi counterparts so I am not sure what there is to complain about.  If they were asking $150 with last gen specs that would be different.  By the way, companies like RHA, Audio Technica, Jlab and others are basically selling the same stuff with last gen specs for a premium US price.  Take a look at RHA's marketing materials.  Not sure why you are singling out Advanced here.  I personally have found the Chi-Fi stuff to be worth exactly what I paid for them and never more.  They always have issues.  Nothing wrong with them but they typically do not compete with major brand releases in the areas I care about the most.


----------



## mikp

MulberryMadness said:


> I kind of get tired/fatigued from reading claims by indie US manufacturers, who should be held to same standards as their likewise less expensive ‘Chi-Fi’ counterparts (since many of these American/EU companies are getting the whole unit made in China, or obtain part from).
> 
> 
> Prime example is this Advanced Sound Model-X announcement for indiego. Just $69 if you order soon, but typical BS marketing on this page, the usual we used a graphene driver…BORING!!!, our TWEs run all day long(only with included charging case, actual runtime of the earbuds could be as little as 1hr, lol) or years/even decades with optional nuclear powered charging case:
> ...


you forgot the model x also auto pairs..wow  Probably realtek RTL8763B.

Got the mavin with qualcomm 3026, now waiting for the qcc5100 series with apt-x hd. What would be best is qcc5100 series with ambient mode.
https://www.realtek.com/en/products/communications-network-ics/item/rtl8763b


----------



## Rickyearl

MulberryMadness said:


> I kind of get tired/fatigued from reading claims by indie US manufacturers, who should be held to same standards as their likewise less expensive ‘Chi-Fi’ counterparts (since many of these American/EU companies are getting the whole unit made in China, or obtain part from).
> 
> 
> Prime example is this Advanced Sound Model-X announcement for indiego. Just $69 if you order soon, but typical BS marketing on this page, the usual we used a graphene driver…BORING!!!, our TWEs run all day long(only with included charging case, actual runtime of the earbuds could be as little as 1hr, lol) or years/even decades with optional nuclear powered charging case:
> ...



They don't look like them, but those talking points sound just like the Zolo/Soundcore (Anker) playbook.  Same "graphene driver," same 5hr/25hr, same "auto pairing."


----------



## SomeGuyDude

Companies use jargon to promote their products, story at 11.


----------



## BigZ12 (Feb 20, 2019)

Ah... I don't know if I will laugh or cry...

I sent back my MTW's both because of the lacking firmware (that should fix crackle noise/mic distortion and battery management), but ultimately because the left bud stopped working (no sound, but the touch controls worked)
Bought the B&O E8 2.0. Got it about $110 cheaper than retail price (still expensive in Norway at $290 - retail about $400)

BUT!!! These E8 got the same crackle in the right channel (actually more crackle than the MTWs), and the SBC noise (NFMI/SBC is a scandal) on the left.
Fu.. me... I'm disappointed!
(And I don't get to return these B&O, because the shop I bought them regards it as a "hygiene product". It's been in my ears, they say... )


----------



## clerkpalmer

BigZ12 said:


> Ah... I don't know if I will laugh or cry...
> 
> I sent back my MTW's both because of the lacking firmware, but ultimately because the left bud stopped working (no sound, but the touch controls worked)
> Bought the B&O E8 2.0. Got it about $110 cheaper than retail price (still expensive in Norway at $290 - retail about $400)
> ...



Ebay is your friend.  You must have some damn good hearing to pick up the difference between SBC at high bit rates over NFMI my friend.  Thankfully, my ears have been destroyed by heavy metal and I don't suffer from this problem since I can't tell any difference in my right MTW.  I continue to be fascinated by the concept that a headphone with AAC or AptxHD from source to master is only using SBC to the slave.  I agree with you that it is a complete fraud if true.  Did Sennheiser ever respond on that?


----------



## BigZ12

clerkpalmer said:


> Ebay is your friend.  You must have some damn good hearing to pick up the difference between SBC at high bit rates over NFMI my friend.  Thankfully, my ears have been destroyed by heavy metal and I don't suffer from this problem since I can't tell any difference in my right MTW.  I continue to be fascinated by the concept that a headphone with AAC or AptxHD from source to master is only using SBC to the slave.  I agree with you that it is a complete fraud if true.  Did Sennheiser ever respond on that?


Reply from tech team at Sennheiser below:
"The NFMI SBC codec uses a higher sampling rate that the Bluetooth SBC codec and is virtually unnoticeable in terms of difference in sound quality from the standard AAC or Aptx codec. The NFMI system though does have delay in the sound so the left headphone is at 5ms delay from the right. All these are theoretically imperceptible to human hearing."

I am 100% sure that the SBC noise (metallic kind) on the left is present  on th MTW and E8 with AAC/AptX. It's exactly the same noise/sound when using SBC as codec, but then the noise is in both channels. (as I've written maybe too many times now  ) I hear it on many songs, but most noticable with the tone generator we've also talked about so many times 

But even worse... the crackle on the right is actually twice as noticable on the E8 :O (I remember that a E8 owner wrote that it had the same problem, but didn't think it could be worse  )

The only positive is the comfort, fit, looks and the new case looks good. (smaller than I expected)
The MTW sounded a little better as well. The E8 is a little more "shreaky" in the highs. The bass is good, but not as good as the MTW's. That's a matter of taste I know. Read that some guys think the MTW's is too boomy.


----------



## Edward Ng

Doing direct A/B comparisons between my new MW07s versus my MTWs and I have to be honest—I’m finding that the Master & Dynamic pieces are noticeably less transparent across the entire spectrum compared to the Sennheisers. This is my first experience with beryllium drivers, so I am really hoping that the MW07s need a good break-in/burn-in to perform their best (I’ve been using my Momentum True Wireless for weeks now, so they are well-broken-in). As of the current state, strictly in terms of sound quality, I can’t give the MW07 anything at all over the MTW. The bottom-end extension of both are comparable and the bass impact are also fairly comparable, but I’m finding the clarity and transparency of the MTW, especially in the mid and high range to be obviously better. There is a literal sense of greater speed with the MTW compared to the MW07. I’ll keep testing more tip options and continue to burn the MW07 in, but right now the difference in transparency is simply too big between the two to my ears. I will also try swapping sources around (in order to expedite A/B comparisons, I am using the same playlist on my iPhone XS and my Apple Watch Series 4, with the phone synced to the Sennheisers and the watch synced to the Master & Dynamics).

-Ed


----------



## BigZ12

http://bogo.custhelp.com/app/answer...ound-when-using-my-beoplay-e8.-is-it-normal?-
Wow!


----------



## MulberryMadness

Probably could put into diff thread, but anyway: Galaxy Buds announced today with Samsung Galaxy line, likely will charge faster with Qi than Apple's Airpods 2, which are rumored to have capability of bilateral wireless charging of the Airpods from an iphone. Airpods 2 killers, announced long before Airpods 2?

https://9to5google.com/2019/02/20/samsung-galaxy-buds-announcement/

"_With sound by AKG, the Galaxy Buds are able to deliver high quality audio, while Enhanced Ambient Sound allows you to choose how much of your surroundings you wish to hear. Adaptive dual microphones located on each side of both earbuds allow the Galaxy Buds to better isolate your voice from your (potentially noisy) surroundings during phone calls. Combined with integrated Bixby support, Samsung’s voice assistant should be able to hear you loud and clear.

By themselves, the Samsung Galaxy Buds can hold a charge of about 6 hours, while the included charging case has a battery of its own which is able to hold another 7 hours of battery life. Should your Galaxy Buds run out of juice while on the go, the case is capable of giving them another almost two hours of life in 15 minutes.

The truly killer feature is the case’s ability to charge wirelessly using Qi, including directly from Samsung Galaxy S10 devices via Wireless PowerShare. Anywhere you go, the Galaxy Buds can borrow a little power from your S10 to get back to jamming out. At home, the Galaxy Buds case can also charge via USB-C_
"


----------



## Bartig

BigZ12 said:


> Ah... I don't know if I will laugh or cry...
> 
> I sent back my MTW's both because of the lacking firmware (that should fix crackle noise/mic distortion and battery management), but ultimately because the left bud stopped working (no sound, but the touch controls worked)
> Bought the B&O E8 2.0. Got it about $110 cheaper than retail price (still expensive in Norway at $290 - retail about $400)
> ...


Treat yourself to the painless 20 dollar QCY QS1 meanwhile. Not even joking. Zero problems, great sound.


----------



## Inear

MulberryMadness said:


> I kind of get tired/fatigued from reading claims by indie US manufacturers, who should be held to same standards as their likewise less expensive ‘Chi-Fi’ counterparts (since many of these American/EU companies are getting the whole unit made in China, or obtain part from).
> 
> 
> Prime example is this Advanced Sound Model-X announcement for indiego. Just $69 if you order soon, but typical BS marketing on this page, the usual we used a graphene driver…BORING!!!, our TWEs run all day long(only with included charging case, actual runtime of the earbuds could be as little as 1hr, lol) or years/even decades with optional nuclear powered charging case:
> ...




Adv-Sound, has confirmed they're using Realtek


----------



## chompchomps

not sure why but the marketing got me and i jumped on the 69 price tag.


----------



## sly_in_the_sky (Feb 21, 2019)

I finally purchased the MW07 and selled the Senns. To my ears, the MW07 are more airy and separation between instruments is better, a more deep and 3d sense of space with ha slighty bigger soundstage, the upper mid is more present withou being harch except in some songs or bad recordings, giving a sense of transparency and organic voices. The treble seems from memory more precise and detailled....

I really like these but I also have to admit that they don't fit really good in my ears, I finally use them only in quiet places... the Senns had better fit and isolation and I think that for an "on the go" purpose, these are better... For "critical" listening in quiet places, the MW07 are my favorites.

Now, I also purchased the Earin M2 and I have to admit that those are also incredible.. first, the fit and isolation that are top class...and the sound that reminds me a lot the Senns... sincerely, they are really nice... good bass, natural mids, rich treble...good soundstage... and so easy to carry and wear... The only concern are some strange drops sometimes and other times, they don't connect correctly... but despite this, I really like them.

I also had B&o E8, and have the Jabra Elite 65t, but finally, the Earin are really good to me and the better overall option... I will possibly sell my MW07 because at home, I already have a 100% sedentary set-up...and need true wireless for on the go purpose only.... if someone is interested, just PM me.


----------



## Bartig

sly_in_the_sky said:


> I finally purchased the MW07 and selled the Senns. To my ears, the MW07 are more airy and separation between instruments is better, a more deep and 3d sense of space with ha slighty bigger soundstage, the upper mid is more present withou being harch except in some songs or bad recordings, giving a sense of transparency and organic voices. The treble seems from memory more precise and detailled....
> 
> I really like these but I also have to admit that they don't fit really good in my ears, I finally use them only in quiet places... the Senns had better fit and isolation and I think that for an "on the go" purpose, these are better... For "critical" listening in quiet places, the MW07 are my favorites.
> 
> ...


Finally someone diving a bit deeper into the sound signature of them.


----------



## chrisbriton

Almost gave up on a secure gym fit from the MW07’s after trying spinfit cp100 / Cp100z spiraldots, symbio W/N and a few eBay generic tips.
Finally found a perfect fit with spinfit small cp145. 
Extremely comfortable, secure fit with noticeable jump in isolation and SQ. They are a slightly looser fit on the earbuds due to the larger bore size but no danger of leaving the tips in your ear.  Highly recommend giving these a try for anyone with difficult skinny tapering ear canals like mine.


----------



## BobJS

Bartig said:


> Treat yourself to the painless 20 dollar QCY QS1 meanwhile. Not even joking. Zero problems, great sound.



Actually, I did just that.  Just for schittz and grins.  Very usable. Not bad at all.  Just a pain to pull out of the charger.  But it is unequivocally the best in terms of performance/$  .


----------



## Edward Ng (Feb 21, 2019)

More testing so far this morning. I synced the MW07s to my phone simultaneously as the MTWs to make sure the source is not the issue, and it turns out to not be the problem, as expected. MW07 sounds the same from iPhone XS as it does from Apple Watch Series 4.

One thing I did was do more tip swapping on the MW07, and the change to MandarinES large tips on the MW07 definitely helped improve some of the issues I’m having with transparency in the lower end of the spectrum, but the mids and uppers (particularly vocals) still simply aren’t up to par on my pair of MW07 compared to my pair of MTW. There’s a much better sense of, “being there,” with the MTW than with the MW07, which feels veiled in comparison. Like sound coming out of a radio, as opposed to being there like the MTW. I will keep listening to the MW07 in hopes that breaking them in will fix it, but so far I am having a hard time comprehending why any other reviewers consider the MW07 comparable to the MTW purely from a sound quality standpoint. I really wish they were closer in performance, because the Master & Dynamic pieces are just so much nicer looking and easier to operate with gloves on.

-Ed


----------



## clerkpalmer

Edward Ng said:


> More testing so far this morning. I synced the MW07s to my phone simultaneously as the MTWs to make sure the source is not the issue, and it turns out to not be the problem, as expected. MW07 sounds the same from iPhone XS as it does from Apple Watch Series 4.
> 
> One thing I did was do more tip swapping on the MW07, and the change to MandarinES large tips on the MW07 definitely helped improve some of the issues I’m having with transparency in the lower end of the spectrum, but the kids and uppers (particularly vocals) still simply aren’t up to par on my pair of MW07 compared to my pair of MTW. There’s a much better sense of, “being there,” with the MTW than with the MW07, which feels veiled in comparison. Like sound coming out of a radio, as opposed to being there like the MTW. I will keep listening to the MW07 in hopes that breaking them in will fix it, but so far I am having a hard time comprehending why any other reviewers consider the MW07 comparable to the MTW purely from a sound quality standpoint. I really wish they were closer in performance, because the Master & Dynamic pieces are just so much nicer looking and easier to operate with gloves on.
> 
> -Ed


Just goes to show that sq is subjective. I would grab mw07 over mtw every time purely on sq. Just sound more musical to me. Engadget agrees with you on sq.


----------



## Edward Ng

clerkpalmer said:


> Just goes to show that sq is subjective. I would grab mw07 over mtw every time purely on sq. Just sound more musical to me. Engadget agrees with you on sq.


Or could it be inconsistent manufacturing?

-Ed


----------



## KarimLeVallois

clerkpalmer said:


> Just goes to show that sq is subjective. I would grab mw07 over mtw every time purely on sq. Just sound more musical to me. Engadget agrees with you on sq.



I agree, the MW07 don't sound veiled to me at all, the opposite in fact.


----------



## clerkpalmer

Edward Ng said:


> Or could it be inconsistent manufacturing?
> 
> -Ed


I think it’s probably just a subjective thing but your description does make me wonder if your mw07 are defective. I would not consider them veiled but mtw is definitely more forward sounding.


----------



## chinmie

from what i gather from reviews, it's always a toss up between the MTW and the MW07 when talking about the sound. that's a good thing, so they are pretty much equal in sound, with choice only weighted by preference


----------



## howdy

sly_in_the_sky said:


> I finally purchased the MW07 and selled the Senns. To my ears, the MW07 are more airy and separation between instruments is better, a more deep and 3d sense of space with ha slighty bigger soundstage, the upper mid is more present withou being harch except in some songs or bad recordings, giving a sense of transparency and organic voices. The treble seems from memory more precise and detailled....
> 
> I really like these but I also have to admit that they don't fit really good in my ears, I finally use them only in quiet places... the Senns had better fit and isolation and I think that for an "on the go" purpose, these are better... For "critical" listening in quiet places, the MW07 are my favorites.
> 
> ...


I was thinking of getting the Jabra Elite 65T today for use at the gym. How are You liking yours? Any issues with them, especially in a gym or crowded area?


----------



## sly_in_the_sky (Feb 21, 2019)

Hello,

I have bought plenty of TW Iems but at the end, the one and only that I keep is the Jabra, the first I bought. I find them to be very comfy and isolation is quite good even in crowded places with the stock large tips. For gym they are better than any of the other TWs I owned except perhaps the Earin that are a little bit more comfy and have a better fit. Soundwise, I find the 65t to do the job when you are outside and you don't focus on critical listening... I think at the end, I will allways keep them... in my experience, best overall option...


----------



## MulberryMadness

Head-Fi has so many fans/followers these days: https://www.androidpolice.com/2019/02/20/samsungs-galaxy-buds-coming-march-8th-for-129/

Rflmao, comments ^: “_I can imagine Head Fi furiously foaming at their mouths over Samsung calling these “buds”...lol. *They harass anyone calling earbuds anything but canalphones*. You can’t even call them “IEMs_”.”

So yet another proprietary codec, like we need yet another? And of course since Apple has a billion ip’s in circulation, obligatory AAC codec is on competing products, as Samsung seems perpetually trying to out do Apple...will Apple bring out a folding sp nxt yr @$2k, or will Samsung’s ‘fold’ when significant sales fail to materialize?

“_They connect via Bluetooth 5.0 and use a proprietary Samsung "scalable" codec, along with AAC and SBC. It's unclear how this compares to AptX, but hopefully it's competitive. For what it's worth, the audio is tuned by AKG like most other Samsung products. The buds also have Bixby integration, and they sync instantly with Galaxy smartphones. So, you've got that to look forward to when the Galaxy Buds launch on March 8th.”_

Like the new Galaxy smartphones, the buds are priced just below what the competing Apple product is selling for.

Can’t find anything useful on LG’s soon to be release flagship(s) lg v50 &G8, as far as any audio changes/improvements. I couldn’t find anything meaningful in the proposed BT 5.1 spec, and there is nothing on the SIG about potential BT 6.0.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

Of course we don't "need" a new codec, but boy it's great to try and force people to buy your product and trap you in their ecosystem. Proprietary means I ain't touching it. Don't care if they're really good.


----------



## kiwikozo

SomeGuyDude said:


> Of course we don't "need" a new codec, but boy it's great to try and force people to buy your product and trap you in their ecosystem. Proprietary means I ain't touching it. Don't care if they're really good.



The new samsung buds have AAC though?

I pre-ordered the s10 plus but I most likely will not be purchasing the buds. Was not with any of Samsung's previous TW earphones. I'm happy that they're priced competitively so there will be fewer airpods visible in public. It's basically guaranteed they will sound better than airpods, but still consumer grade.

I'm happy with the Earin M2, and will upgrade to the M3 whenever they're released. Overall as a package, they are extremely good and this isn't just because of the form factor.

One thing I really just want to try is the Mavin Air-X. The fit looks different to other TW so maybe my small ears will find them comfortable. No UK resellers yet, I don't want to order it from overseas.


----------



## dweaver

I decided to pre-order the Galaxy Buds, figure they will work OK with my S9 and since they support other Codecs like AAC I should be able to use them with my other devices.

Also ordered the Galaxy Watch Active to replace my Samsung Fit 2 as it has a new Blood Pressure sensor that I want to monitor my BP more closely .

Will post how the buds sound when I get them on the 8th.


----------



## howdy

sly_in_the_sky said:


> Hello,
> 
> I have bought plenty of TW Iems but at the end, the one and only that I keep is the Jabra, the first I bought. I find them to be very comfy and isolation is quite good even in crowded places with the stock large tips. For gym they are better than any of the other TWs I owned except perhaps the Earin that are a little bit more comfy and have a better fit. Soundwise, I find the 65t to do the job when you are outside and you don't focus on critical listening... I think at the end, I will allways keep them... in my experience, best overall option...


I really wanted to buy the Earin M2 but they are sold out in black.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

kiwikozo said:


> The new samsung buds have AAC though?



"Oh sure, you can use AAC if you want, but you're missing out on the great sound of our much better one..."


----------



## kiwikozo

SomeGuyDude said:


> "Oh sure, you can use AAC if you want, but you're missing out on the great sound of our much better one..."



Sure, that is annoying especially how they word it. Sounds like they're just trying to hype up their codec, likely making it seem better than it actually is.

I don't think the quality of the hardware in the $120 buds is going to benefit from a codec with quality higher than that which AAC will bring.


----------



## albau

Edward Ng said:


> Or could it be inconsistent manufacturing?


I dunno. I'm on a 2nd MW07, it has slightly better battery life but same SQ. Don't have Senns to compare but my impression of how MW07 sound is totally opposite of yours. "Congested" and "veiled" are the last things I would think of them, even coming off of my Westone 4, not speaking of 65t. I also had at first trouble with fit but SpinFits CP100Z-L totally fixed it.


----------



## Edward Ng

albau said:


> I dunno. I'm on a 2nd MW07, it has slightly better battery life but same SQ. Don't have Senns to compare but my impression of how MW07 sound is totally opposite of yours. "Congested" and "veiled" are the last things I would think of them, even coming off of my Westone 4, not speaking of 65t. I also had at first trouble with fit but SpinFits CP100Z-L totally fixed it.


Fascinating...I’ll play some more with SpinFits, although I am using CP100Z-M since my ear canals aren’t as big. Your opinion is particularly interesting to me as I also have MTW and Westone4 as reference points. This really leads me to believe there may be an issue with my pair of MW07s, because as of right now I would take the Westone4 or MTW over my pair of MW07 with no hesitation. I am currently using MandarinES tips, but will swap back to the SpinFits again.

-Ed


----------



## Spie1904

chrisbriton said:


> Just cancelled a preorder for Jaybird’s new tarah pro’s as I want to dip my toe into a true wireless pair (also discovered the tarah “pro” have Sbc Codec only)
> Will be using them for workouts, leaning towards the jabra elite active 65t. Any other suggestions worth looking at?
> I’m currently using Jaybird X3, Will I notice a drop in sq and volume With a truly wireless earbuds like the 65t?
> Thanks



What did you end up getting?
I'm looking for the same but for small ears.


----------



## howdy

Edward Ng said:


> Fascinating...I’ll play some more with SpinFits, although I am using CP100Z-M since my ear canals aren’t as big. Your opinion is particularly interesting to me as I also have MTW and Westone4 as reference points. This really leads me to believe there may be an issue with my pair of MW07s, because as of right now I would take the Westone4 or MTW over my pair of MW07 with no hesitation. I am currently using MandarinES tips, but will swap back to the SpinFits again.
> 
> -Ed


I had a hard time (and still somewhat do) finding the right tip to get a good seal with the MW07. I have both the MW07 and MTW and I still prefer the MTW but I know when I find the right tip they will sound better than the MTW. If I hold the right I can hear there potential. I'm keeping it as I still like they way they sound.
On another note I picked up the Jabra Elite 65t today and I'm listening to them now and they sound pretty good and are really comfortable. I'll have to try them at the gym later, fingers cross for no connection issues.


----------



## Spie1904

howdy said:


> I had a hard time (and still somewhat do) finding the right tip to get a good seal with the MW07. I have both the MW07 and MTW and I still prefer the MTW but I know when I find the right tip they will sound better than the MTW. If I hold the right I can hear there potential. I'm keeping it as I still like they way they sound.
> On another note I picked up the Jabra Elite 65t today and I'm listening to them now and they sound pretty good and are really comfortable. I'll have to try them at the gym later, fingers cross for no connection issues.



I debated getting a pair of Jabra myself.
However the sheer size of the inear scared me a bit. Therefore I went with Jaybird Tarah pro. Hopefully won't be disappointed


----------



## howdy

Spie1904 said:


> I debated getting a pair of Jabra myself.
> However the sheer size of the inear scared me a bit. Therefore I went with Jaybird Tarah pro. Hopefully won't be disappointed


I thought they would be big as well but when I first looked at them I was like wow these are small. They sit in the ear real good and no why they would come out for any reason.


----------



## chrisbriton (Feb 21, 2019)

Spie1904 said:


> What did you end up getting?
> I'm looking for the same but for small ears.



Started with a pair of 65t’s.  Completely won over by the convenience of TW but personally felt they lacked the volume of the X3’s for use while excercising (call quality is up there though if that’s a priority for you)
I would probably still have the Jabra’s if this thread didn’t exist but ended up taking a chance on the MW07’s and they blew me away. Very happy after finding the right ear tips (cp145) for my skinny lugholes. I never realised changing tips would make such a difference.
The 65t where probably the most sensible option for me in every department for gym use with their longer battery life and sweatrpoofing ect.
I’m no audiophile so can’t get too technical on how the MW07 compare sonically but for me they sound good enough to forget their impracticalities.  Immersive and powerful with a sprinkle of sub bass thrown in. Amazing for a TW.
The 65T’s still sounded Ok though, more of a passive listening experience compared to the MW07 that dunk your whole head into the music and command your involvement. Very liberating with no wires, exciting times ahead.


----------



## hifi80sman

KarimLeVallois said:


> I agree, the MW07 don't sound veiled to me at all, the opposite in fact.


Totally agree.  I would never describe the MW07 as veiled.


----------



## assassin10000

For a while now I've wondered what Codec my BT20's were using with my old Samsung Note 4. Unlike newer versions of Android, I don't have the option to select or see what audio codec is being used in developer options (if enabled).

Downloaded wireshark (it's a free program) and made a bluetooth hci log on the Note 4 to see. Turns out it's using SBC at 328kbs (44.1khz) and further digging to check the SBC bitpool showed a bitpool size of 53 which confirms this.


Interestingly enough, the BT20 did report it had APT-X capability in the log. I don't currently have a way to try and force it to use it, to see if it will actually work.


----------



## Edward Ng

hifi80sman said:


> Totally agree.  I would never describe the MW07 as veiled.


Sounds like I need to keep trying other tips.

-Ed


----------



## webvan

assassin10000 said:


> For a while now I've wondered what Codec my BT20's were using with my old Samsung Note 4. Unlike newer versions of Android, I don't have the option to select or see what audio codec is being used in developer options (if enabled).
> 
> Downloaded wireshark (it's a free program) and made a bluetooth hci log on the Note 4 to see. Turns out it's using SBC at 328kbs (44.1khz) and further digging to check the SBC bitpool showed a bitpool size of 53 which confirms this.
> 
> ...


Interesting, will have to check my BT3 too. Too bad they have a hideous noise floor like all the TRN BT adapters apparently.


----------



## clerkpalmer

webvan said:


> Interesting, will have to check my BT3 too. Too bad they have a hideous noise floor like all the TRN BT adapters apparently.


This. Used them once.  Absolutely Worthless with the hiss. Do not buy.


----------



## Wrathbringer27

Found this on Ali with 2 BA drivers. 

SG$ 275.01  30%OFF | CTZ 2BA+TWS Wireless Bluetooth Connect Earphone Touch Smart Headset for Huawei Honor Xiaomi Redmi iPhone Earphone PK EX750BT WX
https://s.click.aliexpress.com/e/b1VFLQlK


----------



## Rickyearl

howdy said:


> I had a hard time (and still somewhat do) finding the right tip to get a good seal with the MW07. I have both the MW07 and MTW and I still prefer the MTW but I know when I find the right tip they will sound better than the MTW. If I hold the right I can hear there potential. I'm keeping it as I still like they way they sound.
> On another note I picked up the Jabra Elite 65t today and I'm listening to them now and they sound pretty good and are really comfortable. I'll have to try them at the gym later, fingers cross for no connection issues.



Let me know on that MW07 tip - I'll give it a shot.  I have tried Spinfit CP100Zs, comply comforts and isolations, and Spiral Dots, and still the MTW sound better to me.  Partly just a better seal, so I get the point about holding the MW07 just right and hearing the potential.  

But FWIW I had the same issue (albeit much more pronounced) with the E8 and never found a tip that would work.


----------



## BigZ12

Rickyearl said:


> Let me know on that MW07 tip - I'll give it a shot.  I have tried Spinfit CP100Zs, comply comforts and isolations, and Spiral Dots, and still the MTW sound better to me.  Partly just a better seal, so I get the point about holding the MW07 just right and hearing the potential.
> 
> But FWIW I had the same issue (albeit much more pronounced) with the E8 and never found a tip that would work.


The Comply Ts-200 works great with the E8 I think. I use the Large ones, and I have a good fit and seal. A little snug in the charging case, so I have ordered the T-200 as well. 
Maybe they give me the same seal/fit and I think they fit in the case a little better. (Ts/Comfort is a little rounder/wider than the Isolation)


----------



## BigZ12 (Feb 22, 2019)

Have everybody "abandoned" the E8 in here? I think my new E8 2.0 are a decent pair of TW's, except for the same crackle as the MTW's. 
The looks of both the buds and the new case of the 2.0 are great, and I think they sound very good with the right tip. They are comfortable too, fits me very nice.
Could have added a little more punch, (the bass on the MTW's are more "entertaining" in my opinion) but otherwise pretty detailed and balanced.


----------



## howdy

Rickyearl said:


> Let me know on that MW07 tip - I'll give it a shot.  I have tried Spinfit CP100Zs, comply comforts and isolations, and Spiral Dots, and still the MTW sound better to me.  Partly just a better seal, so I get the point about holding the MW07 just right and hearing the potential.
> 
> But FWIW I had the same issue (albeit much more pronounced) with the E8 and never found a tip that would work.


I still have my E8s and I get a great seal with the Spinfit. To me they fit just like the MTW.


----------



## nc8000

BigZ12 said:


> Have everybody "abandoned" the E8 in here? I think my new E8 2.0 are a decent pair of TW's, except for the same crackle as the MTW's.
> The looks of both the buds and the new case of the 2.0 are great, and I think they sound very good with the right tip. They are comfortable too, fits me very nice.
> Could have added a little more punch, (the bass on the MTW's are more "entertaining" in my opinion) but otherwise pretty detailed and balanced.



I’ve totally abandonded med E8 since I got the M2, the only minus on the M2 for me is the shortish battery life, other than that they pretty much tick all my boxes


----------



## Rickyearl

howdy said:


> I still have my E8s and I get a great seal with the Spinfit. To me they fit just like the MTW.


I think it's an ear shape thing for me and the E8s - I tried every tip I've ever seen.  It didn't matter what tip I used, they still sounded thin and anemic.  If I held my ears out and forward just right, they sounded really good, but then I would let go and back to the anemic thing.

I posted a couple months ago in here about with some pics comparing the angle of the MTW and E8's - which to me accounts for the difference.


----------



## Luchyres

I feel like I'm the only one who had this issue with the Earin M2s: 

The Earin, while I liked them, were lacking for me in the sound department - at higher volumes I could hear the metallic sound resonating that I associate with NFMI - always in whichever bud was the secondary follower at the time (it would switch which bud was physically making the noise) and the call quality was not usable for me. Was I using a pair with issues or has anyone else noticed this? 

I really liked them for form factor, but the sound at anything higher than 8/10 with a bassy track I really didn't enjoy them. 

I'm very interested for the M3 - but I do not think that my set was flawed unless it was both buds? 

I'm thinking about trying out the Jabra though I know I won't be stoked on the sound - I am curious about the call quality and just the overall quality of the device.


----------



## cityle

Tip for anybody who would think about buying the ATH-CKR7TW directly from Japan, *don't buy it through Buyee*. Been 3 weeks of me trying to get my package to be shipped via EMS instead of a costly UPS of 130$CAD (3x time what I was expecting from the table price on their website), I'm still in a dead end. Just when I finally got them to acknowledge that my package respect the conditions for EMS, they now say the package have 3 batteries (when previously they said 2) and that the charging case counts as an external battery even if it's built-in. Gonna send that package to a friend in Japan so he can sends it to me via EMS.


----------



## kiwikozo

Luchyres said:


> I feel like I'm the only one who had this issue with the Earin M2s:
> 
> The Earin, while I liked them, were lacking for me in the sound department - at higher volumes I could hear the metallic sound resonating that I associate with NFMI - always in whichever bud was the secondary follower at the time (it would switch which bud was physically making the noise) and the call quality was not usable for me. Was I using a pair with issues or has anyone else noticed this?
> 
> ...




What eartips did you use with the M2?

Using the spinfit cp100 has transformed the M2 for me. Opened up the soundstage, tightened and cleaned up the bass and improved instrument separation.

They are incredibly sensitive to fit and the eartips. The comply ones provided made them sound very muddy and dull for my ears.


----------



## actorlife

Anyone here buy the Funcl W1? I really like mine.


----------



## Bartig

Awaiting these four lower cost wireless 'phones that actually get great user reviews between all the Chinese garbage.

Really want to make a sweet sub 50 dollar test. Current favorite, by a landslide: QCY QS1/T1C. Very curious...


----------



## chinmie

Luchyres said:


> I feel like I'm the only one who had this issue with the Earin M2s:
> 
> The Earin, while I liked them, were lacking for me in the sound department - at higher volumes I could hear the metallic sound resonating that I associate with NFMI - always in whichever bud was the secondary follower at the time (it would switch which bud was physically making the noise) and the call quality was not usable for me. Was I using a pair with issues or has anyone else noticed this?
> 
> ...





kiwikozo said:


> What eartips did you use with the M2?
> 
> Using the spinfit cp100 has transformed the M2 for me. Opened up the soundstage, tightened and cleaned up the bass and improved instrument separation.
> 
> They are incredibly sensitive to fit and the eartips. The comply ones provided made them sound very muddy and dull for my ears.




 

i use these Philips eartips for my M2 (as well as some other iems that i have). it is really soft similar to Sony hybrids  but doesn't warm up the sound and doesn't boost the bass slightly like the sony. it has an almost pyramid dome shape, making it really sit flush in my ears. 

i agree, eartips is really crucial for the M2. it could make or break the sound. 




Bartig said:


> Awaiting these four lower cost wireless 'phones that actually get great user reviews between all the Chinese garbage.
> 
> Really want to make a sweet sub 50 dollar test. Current favorite, by a landslide: QCY QS1/T1C. Very curious...



what's the first and second picture? do you have links?


----------



## Temple

Looking at the Mifo 05 and the Sabbat E12 and wanted to see if anyone here has tested both. Thanks


----------



## actorlife

Bartig said:


> Awaiting these four lower cost wireless 'phones that actually get great user reviews between all the Chinese garbage.
> 
> Really want to make a sweet sub 50 dollar test. Current favorite, by a landslide: QCY QS1/T1C. Very curious...


Gonna order those QCY T1C as a backup. I've read they are as good as my Funcl W1.


----------



## SyCoTiM

I just purchased these earlier today, so I'll post my impressions when I get them in. I'll also compare it to my Jabra 25e, Dudios earphones, and the KZ ZSN.

FOCUSPOWER F16:


 
http://www.focpower.com/cpmk/showimg.php?lang=cn&id=49&ref=steemhunt


----------



## RobinFood

Temple said:


> Looking at the Mifo 05 and the Sabbat E12 and wanted to see if anyone here has tested both. Thanks



I am also curious. Both have seen very positive reviews on this thread from different people.

Still have yet to see a budget sub-100 dollar waterproof set with ambient mode though :S


----------



## webvan

No ambient mode needed with the X12 as they use an open design and unless you're in very noisy environments the music drowns out the chatter. Best running/bike TWEs in any case. Actually if I could keep only one pair of TWEs that would be it! 

Oh and very pleasant Sq too


----------



## Inear

Lenovo, has TWS.

https://gearvita.com/lenovo-s1-tws-wireless-bluetooth-earphone.html

Any reviews out on these?


----------



## srinivasvignesh

An


webvan said:


> No ambient mode needed with the X12 as they use an open design and unless you're in very noisy environments the music drowns out the chatter. Best running/bike TWEs in any case. Actually if I could keep only one pair of TWEs that would be it!
> 
> Oh and very pleasant Sq too



And something to add to this. This is great for calls !  I have tried a whole bunch of bluetooth earphones, both true wireless and traditional bluetooth headsets. In my experience, the only headset on which the folks on the other side did not complain has been the X12 Pro. I am very pleased that I have also ordered the E12


----------



## Bartig

chinmie said:


> what's the first and second picture? do you have links?



Ha, I had to look them up myself too. Top: DFOI AirBuds, one below is Anomoibuds. Hope their names are their weak spots.


----------



## SyCoTiM

webvan said:


> No ambient mode needed with the X12 as they use an open design and unless you're in very noisy environments the music drowns out the chatter. Best running/bike TWEs in any case. Actually if I could keep only one pair of TWEs that would be it!
> 
> Oh and very pleasant Sq too


Wait, isn't the *E12* the one with an "open" design while the *X12* has a standard eartip design?


----------



## webvan

No


----------



## RobinFood

webvan said:


> No ambient mode needed with the X12 as they use an open design and unless you're in very noisy environments the music drowns out the chatter. Best running/bike TWEs in any case. Actually if I could keep only one pair of TWEs that would be it!
> 
> Oh and very pleasant Sq too



As a long time earbud lover, they were very interesting for me at first. 70% of the time I wish I could have ambient mode on. The real problem is that no amount of volume makes up for a noisy subway or a coworker suddenly printing thousands of pages in the office (I've tried solo-ing earbuds before outside the home...). The nice thing about ambient mode is that a click of a button is like a complete change of earphones. If I got the X12s, I would definitely have to carry around a second set of earphones, and at that point I am not saving much on pocket space or time...


----------



## actorlife

Are there any with volume control?


----------



## clerkpalmer

actorlife said:


> Are there any with volume control?


Yes. Many have that feature.


----------



## webvan

RobinFood said:


> As a long time earbud lover, they were very interesting for me at first. 70% of the time I wish I could have ambient mode on. The real problem is that no amount of volume makes up for a noisy subway or a coworker suddenly printing thousands of pages in the office (I've tried solo-ing earbuds before outside the home...). The nice thing about ambient mode is that a click of a button is like a complete change of earphones. If I got the X12s, I would definitely have to carry around a second set of earphones, and at that point I am not saving much on pocket space or time...


Sure it"s always going to depend on what you need them for. If you're a runner or ride a bike (or ski, or actually for any sports apart from the gym maybe) they're a no brainer, you stay aware and there's zero thumping while running, that's priceless. If you do neither of these activities you'll need to find yourself in quiet environments where it's easy to forget you have them on.


----------



## dhc0329

What's the best sounding bluetooth earbud released up to date? Anyone knows?


----------



## howdy

dhc0329 said:


> What's the best sounding bluetooth earbud released up to date? Anyone knows?


That's up to you but it probably between the Master and Dynamic MW07 and the Sennheiser Momentum True wireless. I like both a lot!


----------



## Bartig

dhc0329 said:


> What's the best sounding bluetooth earbud released up to date? Anyone knows?


It's hard to tell. I get the impression here that people either only have the most expensive offerings, as Howdy mentions, only mid tier or only very affordable. Kind of makes the bigger picture hard to see.

Well, for me at least.


----------



## actorlife

clerkpalmer said:


> Yes. Many have that feature.


I don't think my Funcl W1 has one. I wonder if the QCY T1C has volume control or do you have to spend more than $100?


----------



## RobinFood (Feb 23, 2019)

I've demo-ed quite a few in all price ranges. MT07 is probably my favorite out of the box, but I feel it is not worth the asking price. 80$ sets will sometimes get you 80% to 90% of the sound quality but offer better battery.

The expensive models all have apps with EQ settings though...so I guess in the end it is not that big of a deal...fit, connection and features makes more of an impact to me.


----------



## dhc0329

I don't think wireless earbud will sound close to wired ones, especially those totl iems, any time soon. Maybe someday it will replace
all these ridiculously expensive wired phones just as WIFI has replaced ethernet connection at home. 

Although I like the idea of being wireless I do not want the iem to ruin or deteriorate the sound coming out from the expensive daps I purchased.


----------



## actorlife

Anyone try these? I like the fact that you can control the volume and the price seems good if the reviews are true: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07L9PJJX1/ref=cm_sw_r_sms_apa_i_aNGCCbK48RY8P?tag=3340693-headfi-20


----------



## chinmie

dhc0329 said:


> I don't think wireless earbud will sound close to wired ones, especially those totl iems, any time soon. Maybe someday it will replace
> all these ridiculously expensive wired phones just as WIFI has replaced ethernet connection at home.
> 
> Although I like the idea of being wireless I do not want the iem to ruin or deteriorate the sound coming out from the expensive daps I purchased.



soundwise i think wireless do compete with their wired brothers in their respective price bracket. what concerns me about wireless is the battery life-span. it will deteriorate over time and needs replacement. that's why I'm a bit wary to invest on them too much compared to buying wired ones as they will be with me for longer years.

maybe someday battery tech would last longer or be user replaceable. but for now i see them more as fast moving electronics, just like the way i see cellphones


----------



## nc8000

chinmie said:


> soundwise i think wireless do compete with their wired brothers in their respective price bracket. what concerns me about wireless is the battery life-span. it will deteriorate over time and needs replacement. that's why I'm a bit wary to invest on them too much compared to buying wired ones as they will be with me for longer years.
> 
> maybe someday battery tech would last longer or be user replaceable. but for now i see them more as fast moving electronics, just like the way i see cellphones



Yes for my the wireless is not primarily about sound but about the full package compared to my needs which are on the go with my iPhone


----------



## Luchyres

kiwikozo said:


> What eartips did you use with the M2?
> 
> Using the spinfit cp100 has transformed the M2 for me. Opened up the soundstage, tightened and cleaned up the bass and improved instrument separation.
> 
> They are incredibly sensitive to fit and the eartips. The comply ones provided made them sound very muddy and dull for my ears.



Ah, I did use only the stock tips - but while a less muddy, more open soundstage sounds great to me - I don't think it would have affected the metallic resonating sound I could hear on bass heavy tracks - but if nobody else has heard that, then I think maybe both of the buds I had had the same issue. 

I am definitely interested to see what they throw out as an M3 - but I don't think I'd want to get another M2 - due to the resonance sound and I didn't have good luck with the call quality. 

If I do get it though, I'm definitely going to try the cp100.


----------



## MulberryMadness

Not sure why these TWE manufacturers are not using higher capacity Varta button cells that have been available for more than several years now.

https://incompliancemag.com/li-ion-...rget-bluetooth-portable-and-wearable-devices/

Only Bragi, as used as an example by Varta in their English pdf, has apparently older cp1624 A2 @100mah, while cp1654 A3 is now @120mah as indicated in Varta’s pdf, 2x capacity of most TWE batteries in use.

https://products.varta-microbattery...e_TrueWirelessSmartEarphones_CoinPower_en.pdf

Any other DIY ppl here notice that also the CP1654 A3 has 2C as max continuous discharge current, as well as 3C for 2seconds? only interesting if you could make a magnetic or similar, quick-change battery, that would slap-on the outside cover, so you could change a bunch of them out, ASAP. What kind of drivers need lotsa current/voltage to operate, such that there are no TWEs of them yet??? J


https://www.jlabaudio.com/products/jbuds-air-true-wireless-earbuds-charging-case. Other than Apples Airpods, which are not yet BT5.0 compliant but supposedly are BT class 1 output power, couldn’t find a TWE at any price range that outputs as the high power rate of 100mw, BT5.0 class 2, typical, is 2.5mw…substantial difference.

*A Primer on Bluetooth 5: Everything You Need to Know Before Integrating Your IoT Product*

https://mindtribe.com/2018/04/a-primer-on-bluetooth-5/


“There are now four classes of Bluetooth devices, grouped by transmit power. Bluetooth 5 adds Class 1, which provides a significantly higher maximum transmit power.
There are a few subtleties to the interactions of the above points which may not be obvious at first glance:

Bluetooth 5 does not specify an increase in MTU size or minimum connection parameters when compared to Bluetooth 4.2 + LE. If you’re using the 1M PHY (the only one available to previous versions of BTLE) a Bluetooth 5 device and a Bluetooth 4.2 device will perform identically.
*As far as we can tell, there are phones which support the 2M PHY (Galaxy S8/S8+/S9/S9+, iPhone 8/8 Plus/X) but none which support the lower speed/longer range PHYs*. This means, as of now, there are no phones which can make use of the new long-range features in Bluetooth 5. This could potentially change with firmware updates to these phones.
The long-range extensions and higher speed 2M PHY are mutually exclusive. They are also completely independent of any transmit power settings a given board may provide.”

So, if you’ve got BT5.0 TWEs but a phone that doesn’t implement PHY LE 2M protocol, instead of PHY LE 1M (1Mbs), you’re not getting any increases!



*Dispelling Common Bluetooth Misconceptions*

https://www.sans.edu/cyber-research/security-laboratory/article/bluetooth


https://blog.bluetooth.com/exploring-bluetooth-5-how-fast-can-it-be






*Conclusion*
For Bluetooth low energy throughput in theory, the chart below illustrates the differences between the Bluetooth low energy specifications. You can see that Bluetooth 5 has a bandwidth that is ~4.6-times greater than 4.0/4.1 and ~1.7-times greater than 4.2. Higher bandwidths can translate into higher speeds, *this will allow Bluetooth low energy to transmit data streams faster than ever before - more efficient, less band occupation, and more suitable for rapid data transmission*. For application scenarios like Over-The-Air firmware upgrades, or wearable device data log synchronization, Bluetooth 5 will enable brilliant user experiences, while higher speeds will build a solid platform for future high data rate stream transmissions.”

Could not get the image to paste above showing comparison of data rates, but calculation shows.

For Bluetooth 5 throughput, the calculation is:






 And so we see that the quote below is not telling you that LDAC is only going to be able to stream at lower data rates with BT4.0 or even BT4.2, only if BT5.0 is at maximum will you get that desired 990kbs of LDAC< if you don’t have BT5.0 LE 2M protocol implemented on both sending & receiving devices, no LDAC higher bit rates will happen. Probably need BT LE 2M to even get max rates with Aptx HD.

https://blog.bluetooth.com/what-bluetooth-developers-should-know-about-android-o

Bluetooth Audio

Android O also released additional support for Sony LDAC[3]. LDAC is an audio coding technology developed by Sony that enables the transmission of High-Resolution (Hi-Res) Audio content, even over a Bluetooth connection. This technology can improve the transmission throughput of Bluetooth audio signals at a maximum of 990kbps. With LDAC support, LDAC-enabled headsets and speakers would be able to connect with Android O devices and have a high-quality audio experience.

LDAC has 3 options for transmission rate:


990kbps, Quality priority mode
660kbps, Normal mode
330kbps, Connection priority mode
It looks like Android O also supports Qualcomm’s aptX and aptX-HD as well, giving developers plenty of options for using audio over Bluetooth.


----------



## Bartig

actorlife said:


> I don't think my Funcl W1 has one. I wonder if the QCY T1C has volume control or do you have to spend more than $100?


The QCY doesn't have volume control and I'm glad about that actually. Because volume is the only button you can easily press on your phone, without getting your phone out of your pocket. I find models with volume control (T2C TWS for example) over complicating things. They give buttons on both earpieces different functions in order to have the volume up there as well. Result is far from intuitive controls.



RobinFood said:


> I've demo-ed quite a few in all price ranges. MT07 is probably my favorite out of the box, but I feel it is not worth the asking price. 80$ sets will sometimes get you 80% to 90% of the sound quality but offer better battery.
> 
> The expensive models all have apps with EQ settings though...so I guess in the end it is not that big of a deal...fit, connection and features makes more of an impact to me.


Well, Spotify and most Android devices have equalizers too... I refuse paying big sums of money for that. And I find that more and more cheap models have all the basic functions covered now - such as auto pairing, decent call quality, auto power off.


----------



## mico1964

Luchyres said:


> Ah, I did use only the stock tips - but while a less muddy, more open soundstage sounds great to me - I don't think it would have affected the metallic resonating sound I could hear on bass heavy tracks - but if nobody else has heard that, then I think maybe both of the buds I had had the same issue.


I have the same issue: buzzing resonating noise on bass heavy tracks in all my white M2 earbuds (2 pairs) only when connected as slave, with both iPhone Xs and Apple Watch 4. Started after update to the last firmware.


----------



## firewatersun

MulberryMadness said:


> Not sure why these TWE manufacturers are not using higher capacity Varta button cells that have been available for more than several years now.
> 
> https://incompliancemag.com/li-ion-...rget-bluetooth-portable-and-wearable-devices/
> 
> ...



The battery size thing is extremely annoying to me. I have and love my MW07 but would pay an extra 100 over the base price to get it to work for even 5 hours solid without a warning signal. As it is, I can only really use it for commutes, almost any other lengthy activity it starts annoying me halfway through with that low battery warning.


----------



## Bartig

Nice! There's something to chose in this price tier. The Sabbat X12 Pro sound great, with quite a tight bass too! Mids aren't as forward as on the QCY T1C/QS1 - but this one is very sweet too... awesome!


----------



## actorlife (Feb 24, 2019)

^^Those remind me of the KZ I have. Do those have volume controls? 

Ordered the QCY T1C now for the wait. I might order the the ones I linked from Amazon last nite.


----------



## webvan

Yes the X12 have volume control, three taps on the right Vol+, three taps on the left Vol-
I recommend fitting them with earbud "sponges" for improved comfort and stability.


----------



## Bartig

webvan said:


> Yes the X12 have volume control, three taps on the right Vol+, three taps on the left Vol-
> I recommend fitting them with earbud "sponges" for improved comfort and stability.


The ones in the package are crappy, suggestions?


----------



## actorlife (Feb 24, 2019)

webvan said:


> Yes the X12 have volume control, three taps on the right Vol+, three taps on the left Vol-
> I recommend fitting them with earbud "sponges" for improved comfort and stability.


Thanks alot. Can you tell me a bit about the SQ and is it the best at the price. Which store is the best price to get these? Edit Seems like $45 is the lowest on ebay.


----------



## dhc0329

Has anyone tried RHA CL2 Planar @ $899? This one's wired/wireless so wondering how wireless sounds. 

https://www.rha-audio.com/us/products/headphones/cl2-planar


----------



## Nocturnal310 (Feb 25, 2019)

hey guys..so i ordered jabra elites 65t and excited to try them but i read sennheiser momentums have much better sound quality.
I wonder how much difference will i notice? 
I am mainly going to use them for commute so its lot of passive listening but i listen to lot of trance/edm music for commute...and i read bass can be little flat?

also coming from wired IEMs, how close is even sennheiser momentum compared to say westone w30? also are they as water resistant as jabra elites?..i do have to walk in light rain many times.

i am just trying to set my expectations right.


----------



## assassin10000 (Feb 25, 2019)

Bartig said:


> The ones in the package are crappy, suggestions?



These are nice. They are a bit thicker, softer and smoother than the thinner foams usually found on AE. More comfortable and what I use on my earbuds. Much better bass response since it seals the earbuds better. You can cut, poke or punch a hole where the outlet on the earbud is. If you think it's muffling the highs. It doesn't do enough on my earbuds for me to bother with personally, ymmv:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/50-...ns-bud-Headphone-Covers-Tips/32607003829.html

They are the same as these, just a lot less of them:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/20p...phone-Earpads-Covers-MP3-MP4/32671911259.html



These are the thinner ones, a bit less bass response and maybe a bit more treble. They are a bit itchy to me initially due to a rougher/more porous surface:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/30P...acement-For-Earphone-MP3-MP4/32909795959.html


----------



## hifi80sman

Bartig said:


> Nice! There's something to chose in this price tier. The Sabbat X12 Pro sound great, with quite a tight bass too! Mids aren't as forward as on the QCY T1C/QS1 - but this one is very sweet too... awesome!


#1  Nice LEGO set.  

#2  How's the isolation (or lack thereof)?


----------



## webvan (Feb 25, 2019)

#2 - seriously?  The X12 has been singled out repeatedly in this thread as one of the rare TWEs with no isolation due to its earbud design. 



actorlife said:


> Thanks alot. Can you tell me a bit about the SQ and is it the best at the price. Which store is the best price to get these? Edit Seems like $45 is the lowest on ebay.


The SQ is very pleasant with a balanced response across the spectrum. They might lack a bit of transparency but for mobile use that's fine.

I wanted them quickly before a trip so I got them on Amazon under the Lezii name. I'd spotted them on AE for around 40$ in December.


----------



## hifi80sman

Nocturnal310 said:


> hey guys..so i ordered jabra elites 65t and excited to try them but i read sennheiser momentums have much better sound quality.
> I wonder how much difference will i notice?
> I am mainly going to use them for commute so its lot of passive listening but i listen to lot of trance/edm music for commute...and i read bass can be little flat?
> 
> ...


The MTW are exciting and you sound like you're in a club.  The 65t are "solid" and sound "good", but not exciting.  The EQ on the 65t is also mild and doesn't affect the sound as much as the MTW EQ.

Phone calls are way better on the 65t, however.

Isolation is about the same.

MTW is more comfortable for me and seems to fit most people well.

Trance/EDM?  Dude, MTW all the way.

MTW are IPX4, so light rain should be perfectly fine.  Here's Jabra's blog on IP ratings.

Just make sure you realize the MTW currently has a case/battery drain issue, so if you leave them unplugged for a few days, they'll die on you.  If you use them everyday and plug them in at night, you'll be fine.  Firmware update should be out before the end of March, per Sennheiser Customer Support.


----------



## srinivasvignesh

I would say that there is barely any isolation on the X12.  There are multiple vendors on Ali starting from $40 range.


----------



## Bartig (Feb 25, 2019)

actorlife said:


> Thanks alot. Can you tell me a bit about the SQ and is it the best at the price. Which store is the best price to get these? Edit Seems like $45 is the lowest on ebay.


The sound quality is good. The bass is quite tight, there's plenty of detail 'around you' (without having a massive soundstage). It's a bit dark sounding due to rolled off highs, but that makes them all the more pleasant to listen to for longer times.

Because it has an earbud design, wind does get in when walking or biking, so it's less favorable for commuting than the QCY QS1. Overall, that TWE sounds more detailed and more balanced, but both are a great listen.

Because of the lack of isolation, the X12 Pro sounds way better without noise around you.



hifi80sman said:


> #1  Nice LEGO set.
> 
> #2  How's the isolation (or lack thereof)?


See text above. 

And yes, I love this classic Lego set.


----------



## chinmie

i put on the X12 in the morning and took off one while the postman came. after a while, i completely forgot i still had one left in my ear. now that is the sign of how comfortable the X12 to me


----------



## srinivasvignesh

chinmie said:


> i put on the X12 in the morning and took off one while the postman came. after a while, i completely forgot i still had one left in my ear. now that is the sign of how comfortable the X12 to me



Absolutely have to agree with this.


----------



## chinmie

first try spray paint it with rubber coating paint. i accidentally ripped a bit too much on the LED, but i gotta say i love how it looks


----------



## RobinFood

chinmie said:


> first try spray paint it with rubber coating paint. i accidentally ripped a bit too much on the LED, but i gotta say i love how it looks



Mad Lad right here!

What was the reasoning behind the painting? Does the silver look tacky in real life? It looks like it could in the pictures...


----------



## chinmie

RobinFood said:


> Mad Lad right here!
> 
> What was the reasoning behind the painting? Does the silver look tacky in real life? It looks like it could in the pictures...



because my son says "it's too blingy for you, dad" , and i got some of that rubber paint spray lying around 

the nice thing about it is i can just peel it off when i got bored with it


----------



## Nailzs

hifi80sman said:


> Just make sure you realize the MTW currently has a case/battery drain issue, so if you leave them unplugged for a few days, they'll die on you.  If you use them everyday and plug them in at night, you'll be fine.  Firmware update should be out before the end of March, per Sennheiser Customer Support.


I've found the buds will drain if they're close to a high EMF source. I put mine next to my weather station on my desk and found one ear bud was at 44% and another time at 87%. I started leaving them on the couch and no problem since.
Tossing the case on the couch causes the case light to flash orange when the button is pressed indicating the buds are being charged even though I took them out, started the app and both were showing 100%. Strange...


----------



## actorlife (Feb 25, 2019)

Bartig said:


> The sound quality is good. The bass is quite tight, there's plenty of detail 'around you' (without having a massive soundstage). It's a bit dark sounding due to rolled off highs, but that makes them all the more pleasant to listen to for longer times.
> 
> Because it has an earbud design, wind does get in when walking or biking, so it's less favorable for commuting than the QCY QS1. Overall, that TWE sounds more detailed and more balanced, but both are a great listen.
> 
> ...


Thanks so they are treble shy? I might pass on them I love clarity. I'm using them for music and Netflix/youtube. If not any suggestions? Perhaps close to the SQ to the HD58X since I see you own them then I'll get them. If not anything with good treble/bass with volume control under $45? would be great. Thanks.


----------



## Jmask5

I have the westone 3 as my daily driver for portable. Would the MTW be worse? Better? How do these stack up to even the ie80s?


----------



## howdy

Now that I finally have a great seal with the MW07 I can't put them down. I havn't listen to any other TW (except at the gym). The MW07 are absolutely beautiful sounding even at low volume.


----------



## Bartig (Feb 25, 2019)

actorlife said:


> Thanks so they are treble shy? I might pass on them I love clarity. I'm using them for music and Netflix/youtube. If not any suggestions? Perhaps close to the SQ to the HD58X since I see you own them then I'll get them. If not anything with good treble/bass with volume control under $45? would be great. Thanks.


They don't have the most clarity, but neither does the HD58X. In fact, I just swapped them back and forth and they kind of have the same warm signature. The Senn wins on detail, the Sabbat has more emphasis on highs without getting anywhere near tiresome, and both have an intimate soundstage. The bass is actually more uplifting on the Sabbat. I think you'll love them.


----------



## Edward Ng

howdy said:


> Now that I finally have a great seal with the MW07 I can't put them down. I havn't listen to any other TW (except at the gym). The MW07 are absolutely beautiful sounding even at low volume.


Way too true; so far, I am finding them better sounding at lower volume than at high volume. I have no issues getting a good seal with them with the tips I am using.

-Ed


----------



## actorlife

Bartig said:


> They don't have the most clarity, but neither does the HD58X. In fact, I just swapped them back and forth and they kind of have the same warm signature. The Senn wins on detail, the Sabbat has more emphasis on highs without getting anywhere near tiresome, and both have an intimate soundstage. The bass is actually more uplifting on the Sabbat. I think you'll love them.


Thanks for your insight. OK I'll give it some thought. I'm sure I'll get them. Dang. After I did the mod I like my 58x more. I also put a hole in the mesh to get better highs.


----------



## actorlife

actorlife said:


> Anyone try these? I like the fact that you can control the volume and the price seems good if the reviews are true: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07L9PJJX1/ref=cm_sw_r_sms_apa_i_aNGCCbK48RY8P?tag=3340693-headfi-20


OK ordered these after getting a good deal. I hope the hype is worth it. I'll do a mini review when I get them. I'm sure I'll get the sabbat 12s this week and I'm done. Just wanted a couple to try with volume controls.


----------



## Churchill Wu

Would it be worthwhile to get the e8 2.0 when I have the mw07? I like the mw07 but e8 2.0 has better features (app, EQ, transparency mode), better battery life and a better case. Is the sound quality much different? If the mw07 sounds a lot better then I would just keep them. Appreciate anyone who has tried both to shed some light on which is better, thanks!


----------



## firewatersun

Churchill Wu said:


> Would it be worthwhile to get the e8 2.0 when I have the mw07? I like the mw07 but e8 2.0 has better features (app, EQ, transparency mode), better battery life and a better case. Is the sound quality much different? If the mw07 sounds a lot better then I would just keep them. Appreciate anyone who has tried both to shed some light on which is better, thanks!



It seems like there is some variation between e8s in terms of SQ. Some users have mentioned differences between older e8 models and newer.

I had an e8 which I'm not sure what the model manufacture date was, but the MW07 blew that out of the water SQ-wise. I'm not sure what the newer e8s are like.

I will say the low battery is really annoying on the MW07, but all the other pros significantly outweigh that con, at least for me.


----------



## albau

firewatersun said:


> It seems like there is some variation between e8s in terms of SQ. Some users have mentioned differences between older e8 models and newer.
> 
> I had an e8 which I'm not sure what the model manufacture date was, but the MW07 blew that out of the water SQ-wise. I'm not sure what the newer e8s are like.
> 
> I will say the low battery is really annoying on the MW07, but all the other pros significantly outweigh that con, at least for me.


Ditto here. I had E8 and never could get a good fit with them. Also touch controls were really annoying to me, especially gesture misinterpretation and sporadic action delays. To my tastes E8 also stick too much out of the ears. But they look good, great battery life, especially compared to E8, firmware updates, EQ, transparency, magnetic case - you know, all the goodies that MW07 sorely miss. Sq-wise E8 were nice - balanced, clean and clear signature. But MW07 are on another level, especially in soundstage, bass impact and overall sound engagement and music impact. Which sealed the deal for me despite their woefull battery, scratch prone and heavy case and general lack of common features. Call quality I'd say is more or less same between the two, which is to say they don't hold a candle to 65t.


----------



## nc8000

If the E8 didn’t have the frequent short left channel drop outs I would have been happy enough staying with it but I like the M2 so much better except for the slightly too short battery life


----------



## howdy

Churchill Wu said:


> Would it be worthwhile to get the e8 2.0 when I have the mw07? I like the mw07 but e8 2.0 has better features (app, EQ, transparency mode), better battery life and a better case. Is the sound quality much different? If the mw07 sounds a lot better then I would just keep them. Appreciate anyone who has tried both to shed some light on which is better, thanks!


I have both the E8 v1 and the MW07, the MW07 is by FAR better than E8. I like my E8 but in terms of SQ the Senns and MW07 are the best even with the slightly shorter battery life.


----------



## BigZ12

nc8000 said:


> If the E8 didn’t have the frequent short left channel drop outs I would have been happy enough staying with it but I like the M2 so much better except for the slightly too short battery life


Haven't had one dropout on my E8 2.0 with normal use. (Just when standing next to the EAS (Electronic Article Surveillance) at the grocery store). 
In my 60m2 apartment, the BT5.0 range with the MTWs was a little bit better than the BT4.2 on the E8. The MTWs worked in all rooms with no droputs, but the E8s have some dropouts when in the bathroom. (maybe because of the floor heating?) 
But with the phone close by, or in my pocket I've never had a dropout the first week I've used it.


----------



## Nocturnal310 (Feb 27, 2019)

so i got the jabra 65t elites.
I ve been listening to them a lot and overall impressed with how far bluetooth technology has come.
- its a really liberating feeling to have truly wireless earphones....i simply forgot i had them on and lack of microphonics and cable tugging at your ear is a great feeling and i no longer have to worry about cable untangling business.

some first impressions:
- sound quality has come a long way from when i tried bluetooth headphones nearly 6-7 years ago, there was no audio lag, no drop in connection.
- rich full sound and quite good stereo separation... 'energize' setting on jabra app EQ gives a nice U shape bright and bassy sound. the clarity of midrange and detail/separation of bass is definitely not even close to my westone 30's though. the overall quality is as good as quality dynamic driver IEMs.
- the case is really smaller and lighter than i imagined and although i wish they had 'magnets' to clasp them in, they relatively slide into the molds easily.
- the hearthrough feature is very effective as i could listen to train operator instructions while commuting. just double tap right earphone to activate it.
- the passive sound blocking is quite better than i expected.
-they are very comfortable and have low profile, they are so comfortable i fell asleep with them on.
- the call quality was exceptional...people could hear me talk clearly even while i was walking on a noisy street.
- they are probably the best looking earphones on the market imo as they dont look clownish like airpods or like tribal earrings popping out.
- they connect flawless with 2 devices..i can easily switch from listening to video on youtube to a call on my phone.

some concerns:
- I have an idea about how sennheiser momentum must sound much better but not sure its worth spending nearly $300 on as for me? these are mainly for commute use and not active listening.
- the quality of ear gels is not even close to quality i am used too on comply tips or westone grey tips or shure olives etc. they are thin and flimsy even though they give a good seal.

some questions:
- any alternate eartips that fit on them?


----------



## Morbeas

Nocturnal310 said:


> some questions:
> - any alternate eartips that fit on them?



As a recent 65t owner, I'm on the same boat here. They're incredibly uncomfortable, to the point where I'm considering returning them.

Let me know if you find anything that makes them more tolerable, fit wise.


----------



## actorlife (Feb 26, 2019)

Bartig said:


> Nice! There's something to chose in this price tier. The Sabbat X12 Pro sound great, with quite a tight bass too! Mids aren't as forward as on the QCY T1C/QS1 - but this one is very sweet too... awesome!


Got a good deal on them. Ordered. Thanks for pointing them out to me, bartig. I think I'm good on wireless buds with volume control and 5.0 BT. Compared savings to those Sennheiser Wireless that are $300.00 (yikes) I think I did good at less than $100 on 3 different pairs.


----------



## carloshacecosas

Bought my first pair of true wireless headphones last week, the QCY T1C, and soundwise I'm loving them. I used them all weekend in a trip and they sound quite well for their price. Only problem is sometimes I experience a highs roll-of every two minutes or so (at least with the iPhone XR I'm using them with), so I think there's a problem with the bluetooth...

Anyway, also bought the Sabbat X12 Pro (rebranded as Waza) on Amazon for 29€, and they arrive on Saturday. I'll test them both and keep the one I like best.


----------



## chrisbriton

Is it possible or likely that M&D could introduce an app for the MW07’s with Eq options?


----------



## firewatersun

chrisbriton said:


> Is it possible or likely that M&D could introduce an app for the MW07’s with Eq options?



It would just be a global EQ, so any usual EQ app would work. The headphones themselves simply have the receiver sensors and drivers, there's not much tech in them afaik


----------



## clerkpalmer

So I won my paypal dispute with wretched jabra customer service. Is there a consensus on the best Chi-fi option? Is the x12 pro the best of the bunch? Anyone try the tfz x1?


----------



## 05stisilver

clerkpalmer said:


> So I won my paypal dispute with wretched jabra customer service. Is there a consensus on the best Chi-fi option? Is the x12 pro the best of the bunch? Anyone try the tfz x1?



I had the e12's and returned them for the Mavin (not sure if it's considered chi-fi or not) but I prefer the Mavin sound much more then the e12's but they are about double the cost.


----------



## sly_in_the_sky (Feb 27, 2019)

I finally sold my MW07... despite the fact that for me, they are slightly better in terms of soundstage and have clearer mids than the Senns, the problem is the fit... impossible to find correct tips that work for me.. Symbio, Spinfits, stock tips... they don't fit and for "on the go" purpose, the isolation was affected... I only used them at home which is nonsense since I was looking for a nomade setup...

I also had the Earin m2 but decidet to send them back due to this annoying resonnance in bassy tracks... they are really nice but did not want to wait for their firmware upgrade...

I finally bought for the second time the Senns and realise how comfy they are, how good they isolate... AND how good they sound... for me, the best option if you look an on the go TW option with premium sound without compromising isolation, comfort and features... My unit seems not to have the drain case issue so... Now I think that I'll stick with Senns for my everyday use and the Jabra 65t Elite for running... Wile waiting for my Earsonics Purple for home...


----------



## Bartig

clerkpalmer said:


> So I won my paypal dispute with wretched jabra customer service. Is there a consensus on the best Chi-fi option? Is the x12 pro the best of the bunch? Anyone try the tfz x1?


I think the QCY QS1 is superior to the Sabbat X12 Pro. Where the X12 Pro puts more emphasis on the bass and lower mids, the QS1 is more balanced and cohesive sounding. It also don't have to put it very deep into my ear, as is needed with the X12. Furthermore it's better for commuting: there's less wind noise coming trough and better isolation.


----------



## SyCoTiM

I just got some TWE from Amazon called the *FOCUSPOWER F16*. The previous model(F10) had some decent reviews so I thought I'd give this a try. For starters, I promised myself I wouldn't get anything less than AptX, wouldn't get anything less that 6 hours of runtime(work related projects), and refused to deal with products with phony reviews. These checked those boxes so I thought I'd take the plunge, especially since it only costs rough $65.




 

Now, let's start with *bass*, since it takes center stage. It's full, prominent, and surprisingly well-controlled. It doesn't bleed into the mids at all. I'm very impressed so far and I think these will perform very well with movies.

The *mids* weren't as impressive. They're a bit more in the background, though that's not inherently bad as it comes down to preference. But, it sounds pretty well-represented despite it not being forward. My biggest grip is, it lacks air, so female vocals never feel fully open when they're hitting the high notes. There's a sense of compression. So, overall, I'd say it's decent in a vacuum. I just have to make it a point not to listen to these right after my 58x's.

As for the *highs*, I find them to be above average. There's enough to appreciate them when called upon, but it doesn't blow me away in any sense. The job just gets done.

*Separation *deserves a special nod as it keeps the overall sound from being too linear. The stage isn't too big, but at least I can distinguish the notes individually.

So far, the *functionality *been serviceable. The signal never drops, there's no weird anomalies such as uttering or stutters. Though, there are a few oddities I have to wrap my head around. Right now, my case says the battery is at 4/5 bars, yet the earphones announced low battery. They've been in the case for the whole day outside of the last hour and I made sure they're not connected when they're in the case. Another issue is, the paperwork stated that it's supposed to connect automatically after the first try once you remove them from the charging case, this didn't happen the last two times I took them out. Hopefully, it'll work itself out or maybe I'm doing something wrong, but I'm not counting on it. Lastly, if I just take one out to use then later take the second out, my phone will see them as two different bluetooth devices. I have to turn them on and off to get them synchronized. I suspect that maybe this is something I'm doing wrong, so I won't hold that against them. All in all, I think that this a learning process for me and because of this, I will not fault these earphones for these slight issues yet, but I will let some slide since these are just $65. These aren't deal-breakers, so I'm convinced that these are well worth it and I look forward to familiarizing myself with them down the line.

On ear:


 

 Side-profile:


----------



## BobJS

actorlife said:


> Got a good deal on them. Ordered. Thanks for pointing them out to me, bartig. I think I'm good on wireless buds with volume control and 5.0 BT. Compared savings to those Sennheiser Wireless that are $300.00 (yikes) I think I did good at less than $100 on 3 different pairs.



Yes, I picked up a pair of these on the cheap.  My TW collection is now out of control.  These were the first Apple-style, non-sealed earbuds I have used and was quite surprised at how comfortable, secure, and good these sounded (especially for the price).  Bang per buck is hard to beat.


----------



## Pro-Jules

I wonder what space LDAC or AptX HD circuitry takes up and if it’s simply too much to fit into true witeless


----------



## Bartig

SyCoTiM said:


> I just got some TWE from Amazon called the *FOCUSPOWER F16*. The previous model(F10) had some decent reviews so I thought I'd give this a try. For starters, I promised myself I wouldn't get anything less than AptX, wouldn't get anything less that 6 hours of runtime(work related projects), and refused to deal with products with phony reviews. These checked those boxes so I thought I'd take the plunge, especially since it only costs rough $65.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


They look great! The sound signature seems to be exactly the same as the Sabbat X12 Pro. Heh.


----------



## SyCoTiM

Bartig said:


> They look great! The sound signature seems to be exactly the same as the Sabbat X12 Pro. Heh.


The Sabbat e12 and Mifo O5 were up for consideration, but I ultimately went for the F16's because of the smaller form-factor. The X12 Pro looks great too, but my co-workers would hate the sound leaking.


----------



## 05stisilver

Those of you with the Mavin air-x what tips are you using? I have contacted comply and spinfit to see what would fit but they have not responded.


----------



## frolly

For those interested:
Jabra Elite 65t True Wireless Earbuds With Charging Case For Just $94.99 Shipped From Verizon After $75 Discount!

https://www.verizonwireless.com/p...800a24060f

The price will drop to $99.99 in your cart after an automatic $70 discount.

And use $5 off code: FIVEOFF


----------



## Spamateur

05stisilver said:


> Those of you with the Mavin air-x what tips are you using? I have contacted comply and spinfit to see what would fit but they have not responded.



I have yet to get any Complys to fit. I've tried the T400 and T500 and both are too narrow.

Spinfit CP155 work great but sit too shallow if you push them all the way down the nozzle. YMMV.


----------



## mikp

Spamateur said:


> I have yet to get any Complys to fit. I've tried the T400 and T500 and both are too narrow.
> 
> Spinfit CP155 work great but sit too shallow if you push them all the way down the nozzle. YMMV.



I had no problem with the ali t400 foam. Think im sticking to cp155 on these, get good isolation. If the mavin had ambient feature it would be foam as on my jabra 65. With a little effort the cp145 also fits.


----------



## Spamateur

mikp said:


> I had no problem with the ali t400 foam. Think im sticking to cp155 on these, get good isolation. If the mavin had ambient feature it would be foam as on my jabra 65. With a little effort the cp145 also fits.



Hmm... there must be a difference in bore size between the AliExpress T400 and the Comply T400 I tried. There is literally no way the Complys would fit on the Mavin for me. I thought about trying yet another Comply size but decided to stop wasting money cycling through them if Comply won't even give us a dang bore measurement to work with.

The Spinfits worked great and sounded decent, although I preferred the sound of the stock tips if not the fit.

I bought another set of foam tips off Amazon from some random Chinese brand. I haven't had a chance to try them yet, but I'll give them a shot and report back.


----------



## chinmie

05stisilver said:


> Those of you with the Mavin air-x what tips are you using? I have contacted comply and spinfit to see what would fit but they have not responded.



if i remember correctly the mavin has huge thick nozzles, it should fit with eartips with 5mm cores. to be safe you could measure it  first


----------



## MarkF786

Guys, sorry for my laziness in not reading the 350 page thread, but could someone give me a short list of the best cableless Bluetooth IEMs in terms of sound quality? I know Sennheiser is one option, but are there any strong competitors or something even better?


----------



## clerkpalmer

MarkF786 said:


> Guys, sorry for my laziness in not reading the 350 page thread, but could someone give me a short list of the best cableless Bluetooth IEMs in terms of sound quality? I know Sennheiser is one option, but are there any strong competitors or something even better?


Pure sq, look at master and dynamic mw07, sennheiser MTW and b&o e8.


----------



## Terminator3000 (Feb 28, 2019)

Amazon.co.uk have listed 3 new colours for the MW07. Apologises if already posted.

White Marble 
Pink Coral
Piano Black


----------



## galangerz

Hi! May I ask for some suggestions?

I'm debating for a portable setup between TWE's and bluetooth wired.  It's for use outside with varying weather for long periods of time, so SQ is currently not my priority, but definitely a plus

So far my focus is:
*1. Battery *
 - I know only a few TWE's have battery life over 7 hours. But I can make do with MW07, MTW and more having quickcharge averaging an hour of playback for 15 min charging. 
 - Jaybird Tarah says 14 hours (thanks to the user who mentioned this a few pages back)
 - shure Bt2, 10 hours, with decent SQ  ( through e5000), has mention tens of pages back that there is sound cut off

*2. Features*
 - TWE all the way for these, also really convenient

*3. SQ*
 - decent sound will be fine, my listening set will be used elsewhere, but any sound better than mediocre would be lovely!

Currently leaning towards the shure bt2 for its battery life, and so i can put my e5000 to use. either that or i sell the e5000 and opt for a better solution.

Any help would be great thank you so much!


----------



## Strodinck (Feb 28, 2019)

Kenneth Galang said:


> Hi! May I ask for some suggestions?
> 
> I'm debating for a portable setup between TWE's and bluetooth wired.  It's for use outside with varying weather for long periods of time, so SQ is currently not my priority, but definitely a plus
> 
> ...


The RHA Trueconnect might be an interesting option for you. They're IPX5 rated and have 5 hours of battery life plus another 20 hours from the case. The case supports quick charge so it can charge the buds  from empty to 50% in 15 minutes.


----------



## galangerz

Strodinck said:


> The RHA Trueconnect might be an interesting option for you. They're IPX5 rated and have 5 hours of battery life plus another 20 hours from the case. The case supports quick charge so it can charge the buds  from empty to 50% in 15 minutes.



that sounds awesome!

also, any recs on a small player? was thinking on getting the shanling m0 

thanks again!


----------



## clerkpalmer

Kenneth Galang said:


> that sounds awesome!
> 
> also, any recs on a small player? was thinking on getting the shanling m0
> 
> thanks again!



The RHA seems to have disappeared off the face of the earth.  Amazon dropped it.  Website says "sold out due to demand".  To me this is code for "we're fixing all the issues in our half baked product".  I could be wrong but it's strange that they have been unavailable for so long.  Must be changing the hardware to address all the complaints on dropouts etc.  Maybe they will come back with an option to upgrade firmware remotely.


----------



## clerkpalmer

Terminator3000 said:


> Amazon.co.uk have listed 3 new colours for the MW07. Apologises if already posted.
> 
> White Marble
> Pink Coral
> Piano Black



That white marble is sweet.


----------



## galangerz

clerkpalmer said:


> The RHA seems to have disappeared off the face of the earth.  Amazon dropped it.  Website says "sold out due to demand".  To me this is code for "we're fixing all the issues in our half baked product".  I could be wrong but it's strange that they have been unavailable for so long.  Must be changing the hardware to address all the complaints on dropouts etc.  Maybe they will come back with an option to upgrade firmware remotely.



good to know thanks!! 

I'm thinking about getting the mavin air-x O.o


----------



## clerkpalmer

Kenneth Galang said:


> good to know thanks!!
> 
> I'm thinking about getting the mavin air-x O.o


I've been checking those out too but the nozzle size is scaring me off.  They look huge.


----------



## kiwikozo

The galaxy buds will be interesting to try with the cp100. The gear icon x 2018 is really comfortable due to the rounded shape but sound-wise the highs were very harsh.

They're coming with my s10+ preorder, maybe they will be comparable to the RHA in terms of SQ. Early reviews say they do sound much better than the Jabra and have a neutral sound.

For $120 / £130 they seem like ridiculously good value for the mainstream user.


----------



## cheesesteak

clerkpalmer said:


> The RHA seems to have disappeared off the face of the earth.  Amazon dropped it.  Website says "sold out due to demand".  To me this is code for "we're fixing all the issues in our half baked product".  I could be wrong but it's strange that they have been unavailable for so long.  Must be changing the hardware to address all the complaints on dropouts etc.  Maybe they will come back with an option to upgrade firmware remotely.



I had mine for 2 weeks. Only did it drop out once. Other than the fact that my case doesn’t charge with usb c to usb c cables and the Singapore distributor unwilling to change the case for me. Everything is fine for the price I paid.


----------



## howdy

I see that Cowon has joined the TW market and it seems like it's got some good tech stuff inside.


----------



## hifi80sman

SyCoTiM said:


> I just got some TWE from Amazon called the *FOCUSPOWER F16*. The previous model(F10) had some decent reviews so I thought I'd give this a try. For starters, I promised myself I wouldn't get anything less than AptX, wouldn't get anything less that 6 hours of runtime(work related projects), and refused to deal with products with phony reviews. These checked those boxes so I thought I'd take the plunge, especially since it only costs rough $65.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


So they DO support aptX?  Someone answered on Amazon they support AAC, but It's likely they have no idea what they're talking about.


----------



## Wrathbringer27

Kenneth Galang said:


> Hi! May I ask for some suggestions?
> 
> I'm debating for a portable setup between TWE's and bluetooth wired.  It's for use outside with varying weather for long periods of time, so SQ is currently not my priority, but definitely a plus
> 
> ...



The Mifo O5 meets all your criteria. The battery in the case I have not charged in a week and its still charging the buds. I use them about 2h daily


----------



## SyCoTiM (Feb 28, 2019)

hifi80sman said:


> So they DO support aptX?  Someone answered on Amazon they support AAC, but It's likely they have no idea what they're talking about.


According to the official website, it supports AptX. When comparing it to another "wireless" headset called Dudios which also supports AptX, I noticed the transparency(clarity) was very similar, so I can stand by it.

Here's the link to FOCUSPOWER's website if you want to more info:http://www.focpower.com/cpmk/showimg.php?lang=cn&id=49&ref=steemhunt


----------



## hifi80sman (Feb 28, 2019)

SyCoTiM said:


> According to the official website, it supports AptX. When comparing it to another "wireless" headset called Dudios which also supports AptX, I noticed the transparency(clarity) was very similar, so I can stand by it.
> 
> Here's the link to FOCUSPOWER's website if you want to more info:http://www.focpower.com/cpmk/showimg.php?lang=cn&id=49&ref=steemhunt


If you're using an Android Phone, you can check under Developer Options.

Did you get these from Amazon using the promo code?


clerkpalmer said:


> That white marble is sweet.


My first thought exactly.  My second thought, if they quietly fixed the battery issue...


----------



## clerkpalmer

hifi80sman said:


> My first thought exactly.  My second thought, if they quietly fixed the battery issue...



Sadly, at 43 years old I can’t pull them off. As an aside, I had a lapse of judgment and impulse grabbed a pair of beyerdynamic xelentos today. Not even wireless. What is wrong with me!


----------



## galangerz

Wrathbringer27 said:


> The Mifo O5 meets all your criteria. The battery in the case I have not charged in a week and its still charging the buds. I use them about 2h daily



thank you I'll look into it!! would you happen to know if the shanling m0 is a decent player?? I think it said it had 15hrs of battery, idk if bluetooth would change that


----------



## hifi80sman

clerkpalmer said:


> Sadly, at 43 years old I can’t pull them off. As an aside, I had a lapse of judgment and impulse grabbed a pair of beyerdynamic xelentos today. Not even wireless. What is wrong with me!


LOL.  43 is not that old.  In my 30s, but the M&D are supposed to be worn by the "professional", not the college whippersnapper.

And yes, you have a problem.  If I'm going to spend 1k, I gotta go over-ear.  At least it says "Made in Germany" on the earbud face itself.  That way, everyone will know you absolutely DIDN'T get suckered.  Dude, it's made in effing GERMANY!


----------



## Wrathbringer27

Kenneth Galang said:


> thank you I'll look into it!! would you happen to know if the shanling m0 is a decent player?? I think it said it had 15hrs of battery, idk if bluetooth would change that


It's IPX7 too. Not sure about DAPs as I never owned one. Has SBC and AAC.

https://headfonics.com/2018/06/shanling-m0-review/

Seems like bass is lacking in some areas. BT use should be below 15h.


----------



## galangerz

Wrathbringer27 said:


> It's IPX7 too. Not sure about DAPs as I never owned one. Has SBC and AAC.
> 
> https://headfonics.com/2018/06/shanling-m0-review/
> 
> Seems like bass is lacking in some areas. BT use should be below 15h.


thank you!! around 8 should be good enough. might settle on getting the m0 and one of the TW's that's been rec'd so far


----------



## Edwood

As much as I like my Jaybird X2's and Freedom 2's, I only use them for my workouts.  I haven't found a pair of Wireless IEM's that will keep me from using my JH Audio Layla's.  Now if only JH Audio or someone would make a wireless Dongle adapter or something for Custom IEM's.


----------



## clerkpalmer

hifi80sman said:


> LOL.  43 is not that old.  In my 30s, but the M&D are supposed to be worn by the "professional", not the college whippersnapper.
> 
> And yes, you have a problem.  If I'm going to spend 1k, I gotta go over-ear.  At least it says "Made in Germany" on the earbud face itself.  That way, everyone will know you absolutely DIDN'T get suckered.  Dude, it's made in effing GERMANY!


In my defense, I got them directly from beyer for 500. That’s basically one mw07 and one soundsport free. Peanuts right. Sale ended today. There were 6 available. I couldn’t resist. Plus made in Germany can’t be any worse than those klipsch


----------



## hifi80sman

clerkpalmer said:


> In my defense, I got them directly from beyer for 500. That’s basically one mw07 and one soundsport free. Peanuts right. Sale ended today. There were 6 available. I couldn’t resist. Plus made in Germany can’t be any worse than those klipsch


NIce.  $500, justified.  Not crazy, nor do you have a problem.  Crisis averted.  Carry on.


----------



## clerkpalmer

hifi80sman said:


> NIce.  $500, justified.  Not crazy, nor do you have a problem.  Crisis averted.  Carry on.


We will see if they can dethrone the mw07 ...


----------



## KarimLeVallois

clerkpalmer said:


> Sadly, at 43 years old I can’t pull them off. As an aside, I had a lapse of judgment and impulse grabbed a pair of beyerdynamic xelentos today. Not even wireless. What is wrong with me!



You're joking right? I'm 40 and rock the tortoise shell on my commute around London. As hifi80sman has said, they're for the professional who cares about music, not like wearing a pair of garish Beats! lol


----------



## clerkpalmer

KarimLeVallois said:


> You're joking right? I'm 40 and rock the tortoise shell on my commute around London. As hifi80sman has said, they're for the professional who cares about music, not like wearing a pair of garish Beats! lol


I was referring specifically to the marble white.  I currently own the black ones. I wish I lived in London. I’ve been watching catastrophe on prime.  I’m jonesing for a trip.


----------



## 05stisilver

Spinfit CP155 work great but sit too shallow if you push them all the way down the nozzle. YMMV.[/QUOTE]

Thank you very much! I pushed the stock tips about halfway down and that did it for me! I'm very pleased with these. If only they had a transparency mode I would be done.


----------



## KarimLeVallois

clerkpalmer said:


> I was referring specifically to the marble white.  I currently own the black ones. I wish I lived in London. I’ve been watching catastrophe on prime.  I’m jonesing for a trip.



To be honest, I think they're a tad bright for me! lol We should all organise a London user meetup sometime.


----------



## C_Lindbergh

I really want a pair of True Wireless earbuds, but there's always seem to be some major drawback... 

There isn't much options left either if you want good SQ with a customizible EQ, I'm mostly looking at the Senneheiser TWE, but it got so many flaws besides SQ... 

Just give me a pair of TWEs with:

Good SQ
Great app with a good EQ and loads of settings like customizable gestures/actions. 
Decent battery life (5 hours plus at least 3 charges in the case imo)
Fast charge and wireless charging in the case. 
Premium build quality

Both the Bang & Olufsen Beoplay E8 2.0 and Senneheiser comes pretty close, but the first is just simply too expensive (370 Euros) and the latter got so many flaws like the battery draining issue, mediocre battery life, weird gesures (in my opinon). 

I wouldn't mind paying 370 Euros for the E8 2.0 if it wasn't for the battery longevity problem (which affects all TWE's). Eventually the battery will degrade over time, It's not such a big deal for headphones with at least 30 hours of battery, there you wont notice lets say a 20% drop that much. However a 20% drop for a pair of TWE's with 4-5 hours of battery life is much worse and noticeable.


----------



## actorlife

Looks like the Sabbat x12 will be here tomorrow. Heck yeah. I'm really digging the Funcl W1 great SQ for only 19.99 on idigogo campaign. Prices went up to normal price. Still worth it for $49.


----------



## Luchyres

turbobb said:


> Update on the Timmkoo TIK-T1
> - battery life is outstanding, I got 6hrs and 52mins (using the BT Battery Widget as a tracker) listening at higher volume ~75% on way to work (note: these are a little lower in volume vs. other TWEs so the level would've only shown as ~50-60% on most other TWEs) and then at about 50% volume at work, I took a 30 minute break during a meeting with some shorter breaks here and there in between but they always remain connected. I believe they'll easily match or exceed the mfr's claim of 4.5hrs playback time
> - phone calls are quite good on my end; as mentioned audible queues when hanging up are played only through the right bud but call is handled on both buds - they sound better than other TWEs for some reason but I've yet to test how it sounds from recipient end; will be rigging up a test to simulate being outdoors and on a plane and recording that on another phone, just gotta figure out how to port that back so I can post it here
> - connectivity - only had one minor glitch on the way back home from work but otherwise it's been rock solid with no drops
> ...




@turbobb - thank you for this recommendation. I bought the Timmkoo per your rec back in the thread, and I really like them. Of course I've purchased a few other TWEs to test since then, but the Timmkoo always win, not even when evaluating the price. 

I'm returning my Mavin Air-X because, honestly, the Timmkoo sound better to me, and do a much better job with calls (mic-wise). 

Just wanted to give you and Timmkoo another shout-out to encourage anyone on the fence


----------



## actorlife

actorlife said:


> Looks like the Sabbat x12 will be here tomorrow. Heck yeah. I'm really digging the Funcl W1 great SQ for only 19.99 on idigogo campaign. Prices went up to normal price. Still worth it for $49.


Got home to a surprise. Sabbat here. Now to open the package.


----------



## clerkpalmer

actorlife said:


> Got home to a surprise. Sabbat here. Now to open the package.


Looking forward to impressions.  Particularly sq.


----------



## chinmie (Mar 2, 2019)

also got the beautiful looking coffee coloured sabbat here. here's some pros and cons about them (cons first)

CONS:
man...this thing, like the mifo o5, reeeallly needs a burn in period. even more so than the mifo. ootb the treble is really rolled off like listening to FM radio, and the bass is overwhelming.

battery also a bit less than the X12..i think this one is around 5-6 hours while the X12 can push through 7. it's still alot, but still less than X12 and mifo..i rarely hear the battery low warning on those two, while i already heard several times on the E12 since i got them.


PROS:
after several hours of burn in, the bass is still rather big for my taste (similar to WF700N), but much more controlled. the treble also shows details, although still falls into warm and smooth treble characteristic. overall the sound tonality reminds me alot to the Pamu Scroll, but much much better..the Pamu is so grainy in sound that it physically hurts my ears, and it's not improving at all even after a long burn in.

the case is more weighty and have a more solid feel compared to the X12 

the fit on this E12 is the best between all my TWs, maybe even from all my iems. it's like wearing the X12, but in iem form...i really forgot even wearing it. it also doesn't have that vacuum effect when put on, so a lot less thumping noise when walking, and won't vibrate and makes rumbling noise when i use it inside my helmet.

i think it's because it has a vent on the upper side to reduce that vacuum effect. the downside is it blocks less noise than my other TWs (except for the X12 of course )

i sold my 65t (my designated TWs for riding). this E12 is a much better TWs for riding for me. the extra bass also makes it shine in street situation, because i can set the volume quite lower and still hear the bass. it performs better than the Mifo and M2 for noisy situations.

it uses Sony hybrids for it's stock tips. fit is incredible with them, but i switch to symbios to reduce the bass just a nudge and give it more definition.


----------



## srinivasvignesh

Of all the TW I have tried, the Sabbats are proving to be the best for calls, especially in a noisy environment. I am able to take calls comfortably in the noisy streets of India.


----------



## webvan

@chinmie - thanks for the E12 review. Do they really come with the old Sony (or clones) hybrid tips with foam inside or the newer triple comfort with thick rubber? Based on your review the SQ doesn't seem to be as pleasant as the X12s even after a burn in? 
The design to reduce the thumping is interesting but then you lose isolation when you need it and there's no transparency mode.
Sounds like a good single TW choice but won't be as versatile as an X12/65t vomno


----------



## Bartig

chinmie said:


> also got the beautiful looking coffee coloured sabbat here. here's some pros and cons about them (cons first)
> 
> CONS:
> man...this thing, like the mifo o5, reeeallly needs a burn in period. even more so than the mifo. ootb the treble is really rolled off like listening to FM radio, and the bass is overwhelming.
> ...


So... they sound exactly the same as the X12 Pro?


----------



## chinmie

Bartig said:


> So... they sound exactly the same as the X12 Pro?



not really. the X12 is more balanced and airy


----------



## Dyismar (Mar 2, 2019)

Hi. Newbie here and the main purpose of joining is this thread. I've learned about a lot of unknown TWE brands and its hard to choose what to buy between those wide variety of choices. Can anyone recommend me an TWE meeting this checklist?

6-7 hours battery life on a single charge (a must)
IEM shaped design (not apple airpods design)
USB type c charging case (not that important but its nice if its Type-C)
minimal to no sound leaking (Will be using it to library most of the time)
Not sure with the sound sig I'm looking for but I usually listen to rock/metal.
APTX capability is bonus.

 My choices are sabbat x12/e12, mifo o5, havit G1, Simgot MTW5. My budget is at $100 and those are the best ones I've found. Thank you.


----------



## nc8000

Dyismar said:


> Hi. Newbie here and the main purpose of joining is this thread. I've learned about a lot of unknown TWE brands and its hard to choose what to buy between those wide variety of choices. Can anyone recommend me an TWE meeting this checklist?
> 
> 6-7 hours battery life on a single charge (a must)
> IEM shaped design (not apple airpods design)
> ...



The G1 is at best going to give you a little over 4 hours on a charge, there are very few if any that will give 6-7 hours


----------



## chinmie

webvan said:


> @chinmie - thanks for the E12 review. Do they really come with the old Sony (or clones) hybrid tips with foam inside or the newer triple comfort with thick rubber? Based on your review the SQ doesn't seem to be as pleasant as the X12s even after a burn in?
> The design to reduce the thumping is interesting but then you lose isolation when you need it and there's no transparency mode.
> Sounds like a good single TW choice but won't be as versatile as an X12/65t vomno



it's using the sony hybrids types but with no foams inside.

the E12 has a more energetic sound, while the X12 is natural and relaxing. direct comparison is a bit hard between them. i do personally prefer to have X12 sound in an IEM form, but this E12 is also good. 

to me personally, the E12 has the edge compared to the 65t in sound, battery life, and comfort..not to mention price. so i think it's better to have X12/E12 combo than X12/65t combo


----------



## smaragd

Also, the E12 is more immune to interference than any other chi-if true wireless buds...


----------



## webvan

Lack of transparency vs the 65t would bug me and weaker isolation too. Hard to imagine the call quality being better too. Now it may be enough. Now they need to fit you well of course.


----------



## RobinFood

chinmie said:


> it's using the sony hybrids types but with no foams inside.
> 
> the E12 has a more energetic sound, while the X12 is natural and relaxing. direct comparison is a bit hard between them. i do personally prefer to have X12 sound in an IEM form, but this E12 is also good.
> 
> to me personally, the E12 has the edge compared to the 65t in sound, battery life, and comfort..not to mention price. so i think it's better to have X12/E12 combo than X12/65t combo



I am really curious about this, but does the x12  fit in the e12 case and vice versa?


----------



## chinmie

webvan said:


> Lack of transparency vs the 65t would bug me and weaker isolation too. Hard to imagine the call quality being better too. Now it may be enough. Now they need to fit you well of course.



the 65t indeed is no slouch in call quality. the reason i let it go is mainly the fit and the treble is slightly abrasive to my ears. also it sometimes sounded louder on the left side. the ambient mode is surely a miss on the E12, but the gain on sound and fitting is better for me. though i won't suggest you to swap your 65t for the E12, because this is my personal preference and the E12 is a harder suggestion, not as easy as suggesting the X12 for it's unique form factor and different sound to other standard IEMs



RobinFood said:


> I am really curious about this, but does the x12  fit in the e12 case and vice versa?



unfortunately no, they have a different charging layout


----------



## urii

For Earin M-2 used custom-fit silicone eartips. Ideal contact!
https://www.meeaudio.com/CustomTips/


----------



## actorlife

clerkpalmer said:


> Looking forward to impressions.  Particularly sq.


I'm gonna give them a few days to see if the treble opens up. They seem a bit rolled off. The mids out the box are fantastic. The fit are perfect in my ears. I don't need the covers. They play a bit louder than the W1.  The Funcl W1 sound more sparkly with good bass. I'm waiting on a couple of more sets to see which win in sq.


----------



## actorlife

actorlife said:


> Anyone try these? I like the fact that you can control the volume and the price seems good if the reviews are true: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07L9PJJX1/ref=cm_sw_r_sms_apa_i_aNGCCbK48RY8P?tag=3340693-headfi-20


These were delivered can't wait to get home and try them. I wonder if they will beat the X12? Stay tuned.


----------



## RobinFood

urii said:


> For Earin M-2 used custom-fit silicone eartips. Ideal contact!
> https://www.meeaudio.com/CustomTips/



Do they fit in the case? They don't look lile they would...


----------



## urii (Mar 2, 2019)

https://44sound.ru/


----------



## actorlife (Mar 2, 2019)

actorlife said:


> These were delivered can't wait to get home and try them. I wonder if they will beat the X12? Stay tuned.


OK I'm home. Got these on right now. Blown away with the treble clarity, mids and great bass. I'm on YouTube watching Chris Stapleton live version of his original "I Was Wrong" just so damn clear. These come up as W1(HonShoop) . These are really good and loud. I bet once they break in they will be even better. They come with a 1 year Warranty. Just get them! Just tested these with Netflix series F is for family and dialog is crispy clear and it's just amazing(mouth wide open).


----------



## Luchyres

actorlife said:


> OK I'm home. Got these on right now. Blown away with the treble clarity, mids and great bass. I'm on YouTube watching Chris Stapleton live version of his original "I Was Wrong" just so damn clear. These come up as W1(HonShoop) . These are really good and loud. I bet once they break in they will be even better. They come with a 1 year Warranty. Just get them!



Do they support aptx? Sound very intriguing! Also, please report back on how they are for calls (mics on your end) if you would!

TIA


----------



## actorlife (Mar 2, 2019)

Luchyres said:


> Do they support aptx? Sound very intriguing! Also, please report back on how they are for calls (mics on your end) if you would!
> 
> TIA


I see nothing stating it's aptx, but my Bluetooth headphones have aptx and this is on equal par sound wise. I'm shocked how good they are out the box. So far sq wise these are no. 1 and close 2nd the Funcl W1 and Sabbat X12(will run music to see if gets better). These are amazing I tell ya. Look on ebay there is a seller selling these for $40 or better offer and will discount them to $30 bucks. PM me if you want a link if you can't find him. I'll check call quality later tonight and will report back.


----------



## whitefroded

How punchy is the bass? Any sub-bass? PM me the seller on ebay please..


----------



## galangerz

Can anyone share a comparison between the Mifo o5, Mifo o5 Pro, mavin air-x,  focuspower f16, and the sabbats e12 and x12 (pro?)? 

which one would you say is best overall, and which one is a better bang for buck?

so far just heard a lot of good things about the sabbats (dont know the difference between the e12 and x12), mifo with the most amount of charge, mavin with the longest playback time, f16 for the best form factor

thanks!


----------



## 05stisilver

Kenneth Galang said:


> Can anyone share a comparison between the Mifo o5, Mifo o5 Pro, mavin air-x,  focuspower f16, and the sabbats e12 and x12 (pro?)?
> 
> which one would you say is best overall, and which one is a better bang for buck?
> 
> ...



I returned my Sabbat E12 for the Mavin's. I love the Mavin's sound clarity and instrument separation compared to the Sabbat. The Sabbat's bass seemed bloated and sounded muddy when compared to the Mavin's in my opinion. The Sabbat's fitment though was outstanding.


----------



## galangerz

05stisilver said:


> I returned my Sabbat E12 for the Mavin's. I love the Mavin's sound clarity and instrument separation compared to the Sabbat. The Sabbat's bass seemed bloated and sounded muddy when compared to the Mavin's in my opinion. The Sabbat's fitment though was outstanding.


awesome thank you! im really mostly debating between the mavins and the mifo's, how theyre like using daily, listening to music, taking calls

ive read the mifo's can be submerged in water and come out fine. can can the mavin's do that as well??

thanks again!


----------



## RobinFood

Kenneth Galang said:


> awesome thank you! im really mostly debating between the mavins and the mifo's, how theyre like using daily, listening to music, taking calls
> 
> ive read the mifo's can be submerged in water and come out fine. can can the mavin's do that as well??
> 
> thanks again!



The Mavins are rated ipx5 for waterproofing. They only survive up to heavy rain.

Mifo is ipx7, so it survives submersion.


----------



## smaragd

Can you post some close ups of the Mavin?


----------



## smaragd

05stisilver said:


> I returned my Sabbat E12 for the Mavin's. I love the Mavin's sound clarity and instrument separation compared to the Sabbat. The Sabbat's bass seemed bloated and sounded muddy when compared to the Mavin's in my opinion. The Sabbat's fitment though was outstanding.



Agree that the E12 needs some EQ to remove some of the bass bloat and add a bit more sparkle in the high end frequencies


----------



## 05stisilver

smaragd said:


> Agree that the E12 needs some EQ to remove some of the bass bloat and add a bit more sparkle in the high end frequencies


I am interested in trying the X12 though. I heard that the sound signature is different.


smaragd said:


> Can you post some close ups of the Mavin?



Mavin's on top and the Jabra Elite Sport on the bottom. They are a lot smaller than what I was expecting.


----------



## oHUTCHYo

This is a big thread to read from start to finish, so can anyone offer some summaries please for the current favourites?

Most of my listening is in the gym. Currently using a Sansa Clip+ and Sony XB90EX, previously used other fun, bass heavy IEMs such as Hippo VB etc.

Id like to start using my iPhone in the gym instead and want to explore if bluetooth headphones have matured yet.

Price is no concern despite them being for the gym. So what are the reccomendations guys, for something with quality sounds and leaning more towards the bass heavy sound for electronic music?


----------



## clerkpalmer

oHUTCHYo said:


> This is a big thread to read from start to finish, so can anyone offer some summaries please for the current favourites?
> 
> Most of my listening is in the gym. Currently using a Sansa Clip+ and Sony XB90EX, previously used other fun, bass heavy IEMs such as Hippo VB etc.
> 
> ...


Based on your preferences, look at the Sennheiser MTW and the Sony SP700n.  While I haven't personally heard them, soundguys indicated the JBL ua flash apparently puts out a ton of bass.


----------



## SyCoTiM

Kenneth Galang said:


> Can anyone share a comparison between the Mifo o5, Mifo o5 Pro, mavin air-x,  focuspower f16, and the sabbats e12 and x12 (pro?)?
> 
> which one would you say is best overall, and which one is a better bang for buck?
> 
> ...


This was the same list that I had. It came down to the MiFo o5 and F16, so I decided on the F16 since I thought the form-factor was better for me. If you do go for the F16, keep in mind that you might have difficulty pairing it with your phone. I had to factory reset them 2 or 3 times to get *both *synchronized with my phone. Once I got pass this minor annoyance, it was smooth sailing. I have no connection issues whatsoever.


----------



## actorlife (Mar 3, 2019)

The volume control is better on the W1(HonShoop) than the X12. Gotta check on battery life as well on both. Call quality is decent on the W1, but not the best. I heard them good, but they said it was a small delay on their side. I'm using my wireless sets for music, TV shows and movies only. I rather use my phone without any type of headsets.


----------



## galangerz

SyCoTiM said:


> This was the same list that I had. It came down to the MiFo o5 and F16, so I decided on the F16 since I thought the form-factor was better for me. If you do go for the F16, keep in mind that you might have difficulty pairing it with your phone. I had to factory reset them 2 or 3 times to get *both *synchronized with my phone. Once I got pass this minor annoyance, it was smooth sailing. I have no connection issues whatsoever.



thanks for the heads up! I ended up going with the mifo MOSTLY because it was more accessible where I was and it would ship to me sooner, and its waterproof (I'll be working outside this summer with it). would you know if the mifo had any connection issues??


----------



## SyCoTiM

Kenneth Galang said:


> thanks for the heads up! I ended up going with the mifo MOSTLY because it was more accessible where I was and it would ship to me sooner, and its waterproof (I'll be working outside this summer with it). would you know if the mifo had any connection issues??


I think you made a good choice. I don't hear of any issues with Mifo, same goes for the massdrop TFZ version. The only negative comment that I've seen about the Mifo's was someone saying that they sounded "compressed". But, I personally believe that comes with the territory unless you buy the more "premium" TWE's.


----------



## clerkpalmer

SyCoTiM said:


> I think you made a good choice. I don't hear of any issues with Mifo, same goes for the massdrop TFZ version. The only negative comment that I've seen about the Mifo's was someone saying that they sounded "compressed". But, I personally believe that comes with the territory unless you buy the more "premium" TWE's.


How is the tfz?


----------



## SyCoTiM

clerkpalmer said:


> How is the tfz?


I havent tried them out personally, but based on what other members have said, it sound similar to the Mifo's. I think in the $40-$100 price bracket, the sq tends to lean more towards a more consumer friendly sound. That works out for me since I don't focus on the overall soundscape nearly as much as I do at home.


----------



## carloshacecosas

Just received the rebranded Sabbat X12 I ordered on Amazon Spain, and they sound great. They show as Sabbat X12 when connected to the phone, but the manual says they use Bluetooth 4.2 instead of 5.0 like the "original" Sabbat X12. Is there any way to check if that's true?

By the way, anyone also experiencing lag when watching video with their Sabbat X12? They seem to have more delay than the QCY QS1.


----------



## srinivasvignesh

I just tried with my Sabbat X12 Pro/Note 8 and experienced literally next to nothing lag when streaming on NetFlix. Just to be sure, I have the one with Type-C charging, and not a rebrand. (From what I understand, there is a version also with micro-USB charging)


----------



## actorlife (Mar 4, 2019)

I have no lag on my X12(micro USB charging). maybe try resetting the them as per manual.


----------



## Slater (Mar 4, 2019)

Has anyone ever heard of these:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07L9PJJX1

A fellow HeadFier loves them, but they’re almost double in price compared to the QCY Q1S. I’m wondering which one might be better.

I need not only music, but good performance for phone calls. I know that’s asking a lot for TWS IEMs, as the microphone is so far away from your mouth. But I already have a TWS setup I’m happy with (TRN BT20), so I need to justify getting yet another Bluetooth IEM.

Or is there another one I should consider that has superior phone calling performance? I’m primarily going to be using it when driving, so there would be typical in-cabin road noise and such.

Thanks!


----------



## howdy

Slater said:


> Has anyone ever heard of these:
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07L9PJJX1
> 
> ...


Jabras are known for great call and sound quality. I have the Jabra Elite 65t active and they sound good (used primarily at the gym) and call quality is the best from the few other TWS I have.


----------



## Bartig

Slater said:


> Has anyone ever heard of these:
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07L9PJJX1
> 
> ...


These are available under different names, but yes, they all get good reviews. Regular checking Ali to see if I can get one cheaper... and actually delivered in the Netherlands.


----------



## actorlife

Bartig said:


> These are available under different names, but yes, they all get good reviews. Regular checking Ali to see if I can get one cheaper... and actually delivered in the Netherlands.


What the lowest price you've seen them?


----------



## Bartig

actorlife said:


> What the lowest price you've seen them?


The same as your stated price.


----------



## hifi80sman

howdy said:


> Jabras are known for great call and sound quality. I have the Jabra Elite 65t active and they sound good (used primarily at the gym) and call quality is the best from the few other TWS I have.


I would have to agree.  The 65t has, hands down, the best call quality of the current crop out there.  Audio is "solid", but won't "WOW" you.  They are like cheese pizza.  Good, but I could use some pepperoni.


Slater said:


> I need not only music, but good performance for phone calls. I know that’s asking a lot for TWS IEMs, as the microphone is so far away from your mouth. But I already have a TWS setup I’m happy with (TRN BT20), so I need to justify getting yet another Bluetooth IEM.


I thought you weren't going to buy any more gear?


----------



## Slater (Mar 4, 2019)

hifi80sman said:


> I thought you weren't going to buy any more gear?



I’m likely taking a new job where I’ll be doing a lot of driving and field service work. 90% of what I own is wired, so it would be nice to have a TWS that I can use for music but more importantly call quality.

The BT20 is good for music, but not calls.


----------



## hifi80sman

Slater said:


> I’m likely taking a new job where I’ll be doing a lot of driving and field service work. 90% of what I own is wired, so it would be nice to have a TWS that I can use for music but more importantly call quality.
> 
> The BT20 is good for music, but not calls.


The MTW are good for music and should be getting a firmware update to improve call quality (and case drain issue).  If the update is what it's cracked up to be, it may be a compelling option.  Presently, however, I would fully recommend the 65t, especially if the calls are business related.


----------



## actorlife

Bartig said:


> The same as your stated price.


If they are $30 shipped please post a link.


----------



## chinmie

Bartig said:


> These are available under different names, but yes, they all get good reviews. Regular checking Ali to see if I can get one cheaper... and actually delivered in the Netherlands.



what's their name on aliexpress? do you have any links?


----------



## srinivasvignesh

howdy said:


> Jabras are known for great call and sound quality. I have the Jabra Elite 65t active and they sound good (used primarily at the gym) and call quality is the best from the few other TWS I have.



I understand this quote, but I have to add a word of caution which may be related to Jabra products in general and not specific to 65t, as I have not tried the 65t. In the past, I have tried a couple of Jabra products which did not meet good call quality standards (Jabra Halo smart, Jabra Elite 65e).  Specifically, there was very poor management of ambient noise to the person on the other end, despite the marketing claims. Jabra, as a company seems to differentiate between their professional headsets vs their consumer model. For instance, I also use the Evolve 65 which has outstanding call/mic quality. Just a friendly word of caution.


----------



## Bartig

chinmie said:


> what's their name on aliexpress? do you have any links?


Oh man, I have way too many favorites on Ali to find it quick again. I'll share when I bump into them again!


----------



## chinmie

anybody else here who has the E12 can check the battery life? mine is embarrassingly short clocking at around 2 hours of continuous play (especially compared to the X12 and Mifo at around 7 hours). i contacted the seller and they just brushed it off and say that the 6 to 7 hours is on standby only..i think it's a funny and desperate response to avoid dispute.

it still charges fast, only taking a few minutes to reach full. it makes me think that something is wrong with how my unit charges itself.


----------



## C_Lindbergh

Just got he Senneheiser Momentum True wireless, all and all they sound great, there just some software related issues. I'm sure they will be perfected in the next 2-3 generation. 

Fit/Comfort and SQ is spot on, battery is just decent, software is so so. 

Mine only costed about 190 Euros since i bought them used, not sure I'd pay the full price unless they sit down and fix the software.


----------



## MartynB85

I’m in the market for some new ‘normal’ Bluetooth iems or true Wireless earbuds.

Too priority is SQ followed by fit and last is battery life. Looks like the Senny MTW is the one to go for?

How do these buds compare to wired bluetooth iems?


----------



## firewatersun

MartynB85 said:


> I’m in the market for some new ‘normal’ Bluetooth iems or true Wireless earbuds.
> 
> Too priority is SQ followed by fit and last is battery life. Looks like the Senny MTW is the one to go for?
> 
> How do these buds compare to wired bluetooth iems?



If SQ is top priority I would go with the Master and Dynamic MW07s. Have had both and personally much prefer the MW07.

It now comes in 3 more colours


----------



## MulberryMadness (Mar 5, 2019)

I don’t know what chip(s) are in the QCY in reference to recent post desiring this particular TWE, which has it’s own store on Aliexpress, btw,;but Mpow t6 lists newest ‘entry level’ Qualcomm qcc3026 inside, for just $40 on Amazon currently. And unlike the QCY models, this is ipx7 rated, more likely to survive a dunk into the sink or toilet(cursing last night when I accidentally dropped my cap rt into the bowl after just taking a piss. Same will happen with true wireless for me, at some point, those are going to get dunked into some type of fluids…lol, TMI.


Given that we can get qcc3026 now <$50, by summer when the more expensive TWE’s start coming with ‘premium level’ qcc5100 series SoC, I’ll bet by this time nxt yr, those Chi-Fi, Mpow or other will have a <$100 model with better integrated functions ANC, using the qcc51xx series & ipx7 or 8 level water resistance. I cannot tell which version of varta button cell is in the Jabra 65 series, but other than super tiny sized Earin, virtually every TWE out there could use a 14mm diameter varta button cell of 85mah capacity, where as almost all are using now, 40-60mah cells.


Consider size of the US dime coin, smallest diameter in current use…a dime fits into ear of most ppl. Hold a nickel up to your ear for more potential size considerations. Varta A3 gen, 16.1mm dia button cell has 120mah, does 2C continuous discharge (how warm it gets doing that. Voltage drop under that load, who knows)


https://www.usmint.gov/learn/coin-and-medal-programs/coin-specifications


With all those stories about Chi-Fi vapes exploding in the news these days, though they use much higher capacity batteries; wonder what the safety issues are with potential TWE if the cells vent/overheat/catch fire?


Now consider a DIY project of making a Obravo Ra-C-Cu into a TWE, needs some significant current flow/power to make it drive that iem to loud enough levels, with more dynamic sound. Consider that there is a kind of large 21mm dia planar wired iem from China now. Consider if Varta made a nickel coin sized button cell of 21mm dia for say 200+mah.  That might enable upwards of 1watt to each side of said TWE, if only for an hour. If those cells could magnetically attach or some other quick change method) to the outside shell of the iem, so that if the runtimes where just an hour, carry a set of charged cells to quickly change out, like ppl do for Every day carry (EDC) pocketable flashlight.


Could probably make it so, if you don’t mind protruding out from the ear, you could slap 2cells for 10.8mm increased depth, to get even more ‘juice’ to more demanding iem drivers, planar/electrostatic/AMT etc Meh, HiFiman will do that in a few yrs, I predict…replacement for re2000?


Few random thoughts, which are not really appropriate for the ‘science’ forum, since these links are not for ‘scientific facts’ studies/peer reviewed dbl journal publications.


https://sandiegotroubadour.com/2012/10/whats-the-frequency-kenneth/

Wish ppl would use this as a guide when discussion sound/performance of any given product.  ^Very highly recommended read, as it is the following paragraph to this quoted that might ‘blow your mind’


 “To further blow your mind, while you might think that with the range of the audio frequency spectrum being 20 Hz to 20 kHz, the middle would be around 10 kHz. This is an incredibly high pitch – we’re talking pro-level synthesizer territory. The actual middle of the audio frequency spectrum is about 1 kHz. Though this is still a very high pitch – roughly the 20th fret on the first string of a standard-tuned guitar – it is a much more usable frequency than 10 kHz. In fact, 1 kHz is the industry standard “test tone” for audio equipment calibration.

”!
*after* you read above article, then you can read this one below, which is at best, imo; misleading:

https://www.alesis.com/kb/article/2227




https://www.teachmeaudio.com/mixing/techniques/audio-spectrum/

“Many instruments struggle to enter this frequency range, with the exception of a few bass heavy instruments, such as the bass guitar which has a lowest achievable pitch of 41 Hz. It is difficult to hear any sound at low volume level around the sub bass range due to the Fletcher Munson curves (Equal Loudness Curves).”

^my laptop speakers can’t play the 50kHz sine wave, only does 100kHz, but we have some young/golden ears on HF that seem to claim to hear this no prob, even at ‘low volume’ levels on their iem. 10kHz sine wave sounds extra shrill to my ears old ears, yuck.

Big gender gap in favor of women when it comes to hearing higher frequencies, and the inability to hear those, especially as we get older…Men are SOL:

https://www.mcmasteroptimalaging.or...out-your-hearing-and-what-doesn-t-it-tell-you

This Google translation from French, this is a person that I think exemplifies that axiom, ‘a little too much knowledge, can be a bad thing’ ie. Knowing enough to be ‘dangerous’ can lead to inaccurate/improper conclusions/assumptions. I could not find any (quick Google search, not close to determinant) articles/posts to dispute these contentions, though I have seen it in others that say similar, that the manufacturer will have to ‘roll-their-own’ like HiFiman is doing to get Huawei’s codec supported on their new wireless headphone, buy implementing their own software app for this purpose.
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/hif...st-bluetooth-headphones.901170/#post-14809110

“HIFIMAN app as found in the Play Store it will enable the use of hi-res Bluetooth. So you are not limited only to Huawei phones as long as you use our app. Using a phone with built in LDHC such as a Huawei phone, any app will allow its use.”
^LDHC also for *iOS 10.x or newer & iPhone5* <nice, many apps now require iOS 11 min + iphone6, and will drop support for those this yr also, via Apple’s App store.


We’ll see if Phy LE 2M with BT5 can do as well as limited 3Mbps EDR Classic mode of BT. Or we’ll have to wait for BT6, years from now, to get true 900kbs transmission rates for LDAC, rather than dropping to much lower rates, with resultant less than true HD sound, etc.


https://audioduvillage.fr/bluetooth-5-arretons-de-dire-de-la-merde/

*“3.1 Best for audio = NO*
You've read the previous chapters: waiting for the Bluetooth 5 for twice the throughput and 4 times the range is a good joke.

”

·      “Fifth: *THERE IS NO AUDIO PROFILE IN BLUETOOTH LOW ENERGY*

To take up this last point: All the beautiful promises made for audio, all the improvements, X2, X4, X8 we are promised in speed and distance for the headphones, all that does not apply to audio, because audio profiles only exist in the Bluetooth Classic. the A2DP, stereo listening profile, is the only one currently and remains only present in this mode. Bluetooth LE has its own profiles, managed differently, very often dedicated to health, notifications or sport, but none manages the audio.

”

“The Bluetooth Classic can already reach 3Mb / s, that for more than 10 years. This bit rate of 2Mb / s is, like the 3Mb / s, absolutely not representative of the bitrate that it can provide in music. 3Mb / s provides the Sony Ldac codec at 990kb / s with a margin of safety, not much more...  Audio profiles using Bluetooth Low Energy arrive, proprietary at first, but will not be powered by uncompressed audio codecs because this is impossible with a transmission at 2Mb / s.

”

If you don’t mind waiting up to a month for shipping, it’s free from the QCY store on Ali, flash sale @$20 expires in 16hrs.


https://pt.aliexpress.com/item/QCY-...tooth-fone-de-ouvido-fone-de/32930424839.html


Amazon @$30, free shipping much faster, 30day return Amazon/fulfilled by.


Currently I wouldn’t touch RHA TrueConnect with a 10ft pole given recent negative reviews on Amazon with connection problems some are experiencing:


https://www.amazon.com/RHA-TrueConnect-Wireless-Bluetooth-Sweatproof/product-reviews/B07H5K86B4/



$40 Mpow T6 with Qualcomm qcc3026, ipx7 rated, and I can get it by tomorrow: https://www.amazon.com/Mpow-Wireless-Bluetooth-Waterproof-Headphones/dp/B07MVVFC4T/


Get it tomorrow $28.79 + 5% coupon, QCY fulfilled by Amazon- ipx4 is a non-starter for me:


https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07L4VHK4H/


I’m done posting on this site for now-may lurk in the future-or go to other forums; maybe come back when I have time in a few years???


----------



## Bartig

MulberryMadness said:


> I don’t know what chip(s) are in the QCY in reference to recent post desiring this particular TWE, which has it’s own store on Aliexpress, btw,;but Mpow t6 lists newest ‘entry level’ Qualcomm qcc3026 inside, for just $40 on Amazon currently. And unlike the QCY models, this is ipx7 rated, more likely to survive a dunk into the sink or toilet(cursing last night when I accidentally dropped my cap rt into the bowl after just taking a piss. Same will happen with true wireless for me, at some point, those are going to get dunked into some type of fluids…lol, TMI.
> 
> 
> Given that we can get qcc3026 now <$50, by summer when the more expensive TWE’s start coming with ‘premium level’ qcc5100 series SoC, I’ll bet by this time nxt yr, those Chi-Fi, Mpow or other will have a <$100 model with better integrated functions ANC, using the qcc51xx series & ipx7 or 8 level water resistance. I cannot tell which version of varta button cell is in the Jabra 65 series, but other than super tiny sized Earin, virtually every TWE out there could use a 14mm diameter varta button cell of 85mah capacity, where as almost all are using now, 40-60mah cells.
> ...


Ok that's quite a long story and not very cool to post referral links here, but I just happened to order the Mpow T6 on Ali.


----------



## Slater

Bartig said:


> Ok that's quite a long story and not very cool to post referral links here, but I just happened to order the Mpow T6 on Ali.


----------



## albau

firewatersun said:


> If SQ is top priority I would go with the Master and Dynamic MW07s. Have had both and personally much prefer the MW07.
> 
> It now comes in 3 more colours


Ditto that, provided battery life isn't a priority. My MW07 last at most on 2.5 hours on a charge before starting to annoy with battery warnings. Otherwise they pump the sound worthy of a good $150+ dynamic driver IEM. Also look good, reliable and are quite comfortable in my case. Note they are no-nonsense - no things like app, updateable FW and transparency mode


----------



## Bartig

Received one of my test twe's to see if the QCY QS1 has got àny competition at all for their staggering price of 20 dollar.



Well, it's not this one. Connectivity is good and there's no audio lag on the DFOI AirBuds even on my hard to get right iPhone X, but you won't hear much voice or detail over that insane overpowering bass. With the equalizer toning the bass down all the way, it's okay and mids get some room, but there's still so much of it.

And this one was praised for their sound quality by so many user reviews... more so than the others I'm getting. Oh boy.


----------



## BigZ12 (Mar 5, 2019)

I think Beoplay E8 2.0 can compete with Senn' MTW on every level, except range (BT 4.2 vs 5.0).
I got a fantastic fit with Spinfit CP100Z Large tips. (thank you Marek, at Audioheaven in Poland  )
Comfort, looks, build quality, SQ, battery use and the case is soo sexy (not just because of the wireless charging)
I get some dropouts walking in my apartment (when iPhone is placed in the living room), and some dropouts with Apple Watch 4 4G when the watch is on the left arm. Tried putting the watch on the right wrist, and then I had no dropouts.
I paid about $285. (2490 NOK)

Edit: The mic is quite good to, especially in silent places. Everyone I've talked to say the sound is good. Sadly no noise reduction outdoors, but still my friend heard me alright when I was out walking earlier (in traffic) 
The Senn' was awful, but they say they will fix in the famous firmware update that was due in January. Now it's delayed to late March?


----------



## actorlife

Bartig said:


> Received one of my test twe's to see if the QCY QS1 has got àny competition at all for their staggering price of 20 dollar.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Too bad about the overwhelming bass. What do you think about the call quality on the X12? I still have not tested them for calls.


----------



## howdy

BigZ12 said:


> I think Beoplay E8 2.0 can compete with Senn' MTW on every level, except range (BT 4.2 vs 5.0).
> I got a fantastic fit with Spinfit CP100Z Large tips. (thank you Marek, at Audioheaven in Poland  )
> Comfort, looks, build quality, SQ, battery use and the case is soo sexy (not just because of the wireless charging)
> I get some dropouts walking in my apartment (when iPhone is placed in the living room), and some dropouts with Apple Watch 4 4G when the watch is on the left arm. Tried putting the watch on the right wrist, and then I had no dropouts.
> ...


Now that the honey period has worn off on the MW07 and the Senns I have been listening to nothing but E8s and have been really enjoying them. I have the V1 but I'm trying to get B&O to get me the new case under warranty as my case has never held a charge like it's supposed to.


----------



## hifi80sman (Mar 5, 2019)

BigZ12 said:


> I think Beoplay E8 2.0 can compete with Senn' MTW on every level, except range (BT 4.2 vs 5.0).
> I got a fantastic fit with Spinfit CP100Z Large tips. (thank you Marek, at Audioheaven in Poland  )
> Comfort, looks, build quality, SQ, battery use and the case is soo sexy (not just because of the wireless charging)
> I get some dropouts walking in my apartment (when iPhone is placed in the living room), and some dropouts with Apple Watch 4 4G when the watch is on the left arm. Tried putting the watch on the right wrist, and then I had no dropouts.
> ...


Did you try the original E8?  If so, how would you compare the call quality between the two?  There was a B&O store "review" in the U.K. indicating the sound and mic were improved, but B&O never advertised this in their marketing materials.


----------



## Nocturnal310

hey guys


Nocturnal310 said:


> so i got the jabra 65t elites.
> I ve been listening to them a lot and overall impressed with how far bluetooth technology has come.
> - its a really liberating feeling to have truly wireless earphones....i simply forgot i had them on and lack of microphonics and cable tugging at your ear is a great feeling and i no longer have to worry about cable untangling business.
> 
> ...



hey guys so i returned the jabras. there was some mild distortion in the bass and i tried turning it down in EQ but still many poppy, edm tracks, the bass was quite muddy. Although I am being unfair as used Westone W30's as reference which handles all kinds of music beautifully and bass is handled with great precision.

Do you think that particular unit of jabra 65t had dynamic driver damaged/defective or do you notice distortion in the bass also?

I am thinking of getting a replacement unit but I am wondering how much better will Sennheiser momentums be? $300 is a lot of money for earphones with battery drain issues and for commuter use..they also pop out a lot as opposed to jabra which sits nicely inside the ear and very sleek.
I am not enjoying going back to wired headphones for subway commute


----------



## BigZ12

hifi80sman said:


> Did you try the original E8?  If so, how would you compare the call quality between the two?  There was a B&O store "review" in the U.K. indicating the sound and mic were improved, but B&O never advertised this in their marketing materials.


I haven't tried V1, sorry. So cannot compare them. Thought my 2.0 bud was the same as 1.0, except from the case. But hopefully they are a little better. They've had some time to improve them. 
Would have given them 9 out 10 with BT 5.0 and the same range as the Senns. 8 of 10 with BT 4.2.


----------



## KarimLeVallois

howdy said:


> Now that the honey period has worn off on the MW07 and the Senns I have been listening to nothing but E8s and have been really enjoying them. I have the V1 but I'm trying to get B&O to get me the new case under warranty as my case has never held a charge like it's supposed to.



I used to have the E8 and gladly sold them for the MW07. I personally found that they just sounded thin and lifeless in comparison, the MW07 on the other hand have so much body and they still bring a smile to my face on the London commute (that takes a lot! lol).


----------



## nc8000

BigZ12 said:


> I haven't tried V1, sorry. So cannot compare them. Thought my 2.0 bud was the same as 1.0, except from the case. But hopefully they are a little better. They've had some time to improve them.
> Would have given them 9 out 10 with BT 5.0 and the same range as the Senns. 8 of 10 with BT 4.2.



There is not supposed to be any difference between the buds in 1.0 and 2.0, only the charging case


----------



## mico1964

A new update for the Sennheiser Smart Control app on the Apple Store and a new firmware (1.25) for MTW.


----------



## howdy

KarimLeVallois said:


> I used to have the E8 and gladly sold them for the MW07. I personally found that they just sounded thin and lifeless in comparison, the MW07 on the other hand have so much body and they still bring a smile to my face on the London commute (that takes a lot! lol).


Mine don't sound anywhere near thin at all, maybe you had one of the defective ones as some people have reported. I to enjoy the sound of the MW07 but like I noted the E8s are no slouch either.


----------



## KarimLeVallois

howdy said:


> Mine don't sound anywhere near thin at all, maybe you had one of the defective ones as some people have reported. I to enjoy the sound of the MW07 but like I noted the E8s are no slouch either.



Thin maybe not the right expression. I liked them, but the MW07 have that special something about them and I couldn't sell the E8 fast enough lol


----------



## webvan

WesennTony said:


> BTW, I just received the airpods sleeves and tried them on the Sabbat X12 pro. I need to cut a little bit on the bottom to make a perfect fit, but it's an easy job. They add a bit more friction and comfort to me. Still not enough for working out, though.



Received mine from AE too. Did you have to do a cut on the opposite side of the nozzle ? I can't quite "tuck" mine there. Even like that they do the job and the SQ is a bit improved over the "sponge" option, they also stick out less.


----------



## BobJS

MW07 still my favorites, followed by Bose Soundsport Free (though I would not wear the latter outside of the house).  I just got in the Mavin Air-X and I'm pleasantly surprised.  Perhaps, I shouldn't be, as they are an over-$100 set on Amazon.  For my ears, I get the best secure seal with the included large tips and no silicone sleeve.


----------



## RobinFood

BobJS said:


> MW07 still my favorites, followed by Bose Soundsport Free (though I would not wear the latter outside of the house).  I just got in the Mavin Air-X and I'm pleasantly surprised.  Perhaps, I shouldn't be, as they are an over-$100 set on Amazon.  For my ears, I get the best secure seal with the included large tips and no silicone sleeve.



I am actually surprised by the sound of many recent TWE I tried, they all really nail the tuning with that form factor.
What the Mavins really bring to the table though is their range and stability if true. Have you had a walk around the house away from your source? What about listening while the microwave is on?

Try the Spinfit CP350, they are absolutely amazing and are made for TWE. They have a super small profile and an oval shape. At first it feels like you don't have a seal, but you actually have a great one! Most comfortable silicones I ever tried.


----------



## KarimLeVallois

BobJS said:


> MW07 still my favorites, followed by Bose Soundsport Free (though I would not wear the latter outside of the house).  I just got in the Mavin Air-X and I'm pleasantly surprised.  Perhaps, I shouldn't be, as they are an over-$100 set on Amazon.  For my ears, I get the best secure seal with the included large tips and no silicone sleeve.



I've seen a few people wearing the Bose on the commute and boy do those things stick out! They look like small submarines poking outside your ears!


----------



## Slater

KarimLeVallois said:


> I've seen a few people wearing the Bose on the commute and boy do those things stick out! They look like small submarines poking outside your ears!


----------



## KarimLeVallois

Slater said:


>



Exhibit: A


----------



## smaragd

Has anyone tried the new Audiofly TWE?

https://audiofly.com/shop/aft1-true-wireless/

Australian design....


----------



## CocaCola15 (Mar 6, 2019)

Just downloaded and installed MTW firmware v1.25. Not sure from description if this is the update that will resolve the case/battery charge issue, but I sure hope so. The bullet points on the iPhone update app says "Connectivity improvements and performance optimization" (the other three don't mention case, battery or any such thing related to the case).  It does however apparently fix the strange battery level indicator imbalance, now offering "one common battery indicator for earbuds."  Does that mean if it says 100% that is actually the case for each bud? Hope so. I also hope this is the update that fixes the fact the case can't hold a charge past 1-2 days of being unplugged. You'd think they would mention that, right?


----------



## BigZ12

CocaCola15 said:


> Just downloaded and installed MTW firmware v1.25. Not sure from description if this is the update that will resolve the case/battery charge issue, but I sure hope so. The bullet points on the iPhone update app says "Connectivity improvements and performance optimization" (the other three don't mention case, battery or any such thing related to the case).  It does however apparently fix the strange battery level indicator imbalance, now offering "one common battery indicator for earbuds."  Does that mean if it says 100% that is actually the case for each bud? Hope so. I also hope this is the update that fixes the fact the case can't hold a charge past 1-2 days of being unplugged. You'd think they would mention that, right?


Crackle on the right still there?


----------



## CocaCola15 (Mar 6, 2019)

No crackle for me, but never had one. Listening right now. That sounds like a faulty pair. Went to Amazon Music, played Shards of Heart, no crackle. There is a slight clicking noise when I move the equalizer dot, but otherwise, silent.


----------



## C_Lindbergh

Full changelog for MTW: 

https://i.imgur.com/MytQLgm.jpg

So yes, apparently the crackle is gone, even tho i personally never noticed it.


----------



## WesennTony (Mar 6, 2019)

webvan said:


> Received mine from AE too. Did you have to do a cut on the opposite side of the nozzle ? I can't quite "tuck" mine there. Even like that they do the job and the SQ is a bit improved over the "sponge" option, they also stick out less.


No, only the bottom of it. Now that I only use them for watching TV, I actually don't use the sleeves or sponges anymore. They work great pairing with a BT transmitter supporting AAC codec.
After trying different TWEs, I end up using Sabbat X12 pro at home, and Mifo O5 pro and earin M2 for gym. Mifo O5 pro was an impulsive buy, but they're surprisingly a good all rounder.  They sound pleasant though not outstanding, but the fit, comfort, connection, and battery life are all excellent. I'm even thinking about putting earin M2 on sale here...


----------



## BobJS

RobinFood said:


> I am actually surprised by the sound of many recent TWE I tried, they all really nail the tuning with that form factor.
> What the Mavins really bring to the table though is their range and stability if true. Have you had a walk around the house away from your source? What about listening while the microwave is on?
> 
> Try the Spinfit CP350, they are absolutely amazing and are made for TWE. They have a super small profile and an oval shape. At first it feels like you don't have a seal, but you actually have a great one! Most comfortable silicones I ever tried.



If I could find it in large, I'd give it a try.  Every other spinfit I've tried (for various IEMs, not for TW, though) was too small to make a seal for me, even in the large size


----------



## CocaCola15

C_Lindbergh said:


> Full changelog for MTW:
> 
> https://i.imgur.com/MytQLgm.jpg
> 
> So yes, apparently the crackle is gone, even tho i personally never noticed it.



Doesn't say anything about the case issue. Only one way to find out, charge the case and let it sit for 2 days. If the buds are still charged, bingo! If not, still waiting for that FW fix.


----------



## webvan (Mar 6, 2019)

WesennTony said:


> No, only the bottom of it. Now that I only use them for watching TV, I actually don't use the sleeves or sponges anymore. They work great pairing with a BT transmitter supporting AAC codec.
> After trying different TWEs, I end up using Sabbat X12 pro at home, and Mifo O5 pro and earin M2 for gym. Mifo O5 pro was an impulsive buy, but they're surprisingly a good all rounder.  They sound pleasant though not outstanding, but the fit, comfort, connection, and battery life are all excellent. I'm even thinking about putting earin M2 on sale here...


ok, well I ended up putting back the sponges as they bring out the bass a lot more than the Airpod silicone sleeves for some reason as the slight expense of clarity maybe. I found the X12s sounded very "thin" without them.

It looks like the Mifo O5 might be using the same Realtek chip as the X12 and E12 ?

With the X12, 65t and Havit G1 as a "backup" I think I'm all set now until we get the first Qualcomm QC512x based TWs with built-in ANC.


----------



## WesennTony

webvan said:


> ok, well I ended up putting back the sponges as they bring out the bass a lot more than the Airpod silicone sleeves for some reason as the slight expense of clarity maybe. I found the X12s sounded very "thin" without them.


I agree with the "thinness". For watching TV through my computer connecting to a projector, I do an EQ to bring up more bass/depth.


----------



## webvan

About the QC5121, has anyone seen other announcements apart from the Mavic Air-ANC that seems to have been delayed from Q1 2019 to mid to late 2019... https://www.digitimes.com/news/a20190131PR202.html?chid=9


----------



## Chmate

BigZ12 said:


> It's too soon... ?! :O
> Got my Sennheiser Momentum True Wireless on Monday, and I have distortion and "crackling" with them. (At least one user in Reddit forum claims the same)
> 
> Nice example. Crackle in right speaker from about 40s. NO crackling with Sony WH-1000MX3, Jaybird X3 or Prostereo H2.
> ...




After the firmware update, the crackles 40s into the sweep are gone. No longer hear them in the songs I initially noticed them either. All in all, very happy with this update.


----------



## albau

Steve Guttenberg at Audiphilliac has a rather positive review of Senns. Compares them to wired 1More Quads in terms of sound. 

https://www.cnet.com/news/sennheise...767ae48&bhid=23247165730815547246625248339161


----------



## SuperLuigi

Can anyone comment on the microphone quality of the QCY QS1?  I'm thinking about making them my first true wireless purchase for the gym and it's nice to use the microphone when need be.


----------



## clerkpalmer

How do you get the firmware to update?  Mine iPhone is still showing 1.23 and isn't tripping a download?  Do I have to force it somehow?


----------



## BigZ12

clerkpalmer said:


> How do you get the firmware to update?  Mine iPhone is still showing 1.23 and isn't tripping a download?  Do I have to force it somehow?


Check if there is an app update in Apple Store.


----------



## Bartig

SuperLuigi said:


> Can anyone comment on the microphone quality of the QCY QS1?  I'm thinking about making them my first true wireless purchase for the gym and it's nice to use the microphone when need be.


The call quality isn't top notch, can sound a little hollow. On the other hand, I could have a perfectly normal conversation on a bycicle with lots of wind.


----------



## mikp

webvan said:


> About the QC5121, has anyone seen other announcements apart from the Mavic Air-ANC that seems to have been delayed from Q1 2019 to mid to late 2019... https://www.digitimes.com/news/a20190131PR202.html?chid=9


nothing yet. Strange, either some issues with it or selling qcc 3026 first. 14 months since announced and no firm product yet. Klipsch had t5 at ces, but probably just the shell prototype.


----------



## chinmie

WesennTony said:


> No, only the bottom of it. Now that I only use them for watching TV, I actually don't use the sleeves or sponges anymore. They work great pairing with a BT transmitter supporting AAC codec.
> After trying different TWEs, I end up using Sabbat X12 pro at home, and Mifo O5 pro and earin M2 for gym. Mifo O5 pro was an impulsive buy, but they're surprisingly a good all rounder.  They sound pleasant though not outstanding, but the fit, comfort, connection, and battery life are all excellent. I'm even thinking about putting earin M2 on sale here...



looks like we have a similar most used TWs setup. i still can't let go of the M2 because it is so discreet in certain situations, and i really like it's noise gated ambient mode when walking about. 



webvan said:


> ok, well I ended up putting back the sponges as they bring out the bass a lot more than the Airpod silicone sleeves for some reason as the slight expense of clarity maybe. I found the X12s sounded very "thin" without them.
> 
> It looks like the Mifo O5 might be using the same Realtek chip as the X12 and E12 ?
> 
> With the X12, 65t and Havit G1 as a "backup" I think I'm all set now until we get the first Qualcomm QC512x based TWs with built-in ANC.



you mention sponges, are you referring to earbud sponges? won't it slide off from the x12? i use the airpod silicone on several occasions, but i think it ruined the sound a bit for me. yes it would increase midbass, giving it more body, but the lose of clarity and airyness is too much that i rather use it bare and use EQ instead.


----------



## chinmie (Mar 6, 2019)

I've just found out what's wrong with my E12: the left/master earbuds is seemingly stop receiving charge and capped itself to around 20 percent. that's why it charges quickly every time and think that it is full from only 5 minutes of charge. that's a real bummer. does anyone here knows how to open this up and change the battery?


----------



## webvan

chinmie said:


> looks like we have a similar most used TWs setup. i still can't let go of the M2 because it is so discreet in certain situations, and i really like it's noise gated ambient mode when walking about.
> 
> 
> 
> you mention sponges, are you referring to earbud sponges? won't it slide off from the x12? i use the airpod silicone on several occasions, but i think it ruined the sound a bit for me. yes it would increase midbass, giving it more body, but the lose of clarity and airyness is too much that i rather use it bare and use EQ instead.



Yes, standard earbud sponges, I got some on AE. You have to be careful not to tear them when fitting them but I haven't any problem with them coming off.


----------



## actorlife

Well I guess the Sabbat X12 right side is not working anymore. I tried to reset(pressing button for 20 seconds) them and nothing. Anyone have any other methods to get them to synch together?


----------



## Slater

Bartig said:


> The call quality isn't top notch, can sound a little hollow. On the other hand, I could have a perfectly normal conversation on a bycicle with lots of wind.



Nice, this is what I was hoping to hear. Thanks!


----------



## actorlife (Mar 6, 2019)

These are supposed to have *great call quality* and are 15% off about $31 shipped. Confirmed with *volume control*. Hmmm since the X12 may soon be in the garbage + I like spaceships. 
Wireless Earbuds, Anbes 359 Bluetooth 5.0 True Wireless Earbuds 24H Playtime 3D Stereo Sound Bluetooth Headphones Noise Cancelling, in-Ear Headset with Built-in Mic Hands-Free Calls https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07M8LWN2G/ref=cm_sw_r_sms_apa_i_VWhGCbT4ZNFVE


----------



## sly_in_the_sky

Hello, can someone tell me if there’s an app for the Sabbat? Thanx


----------



## srinivasvignesh

Unfortunately, no app. 



sly_in_the_sky said:


> Hello, can someone tell me if there’s an app for the Sabbat? Thanx


----------



## actorlife

Anyone know how to go about warranty on the Sabbat x12 in the US? Any info is well appreciated.


----------



## Bartig

It's Tronsmart Encore Spunky Buds Time!


  

That name though.


----------



## webvan

It looks like they might stick out quite a bit ?


----------



## clerkpalmer

So my MTW will not update. Says 1.23 is “up to date”. What. And the app update but not the firmware. Is it possible it gets pushed in stages or something?


----------



## Paulnguy3

Been using the MW07 for the past week or two. The feedback is legit. The best wireless iem I’ve listened to thus far.  

Have an extra pair for anyone that’s interested. Brand new.


----------



## actorlife (Mar 7, 2019)

actorlife said:


> These are supposed to have *great call quality* and are 15% off about $31 shipped. Confirmed with *volume control*. Hmmm since the X12 may soon be in the garbage + I like spaceships.
> Wireless Earbuds, Anbes 359 Bluetooth 5.0 True Wireless Earbuds 24H Playtime 3D Stereo Sound Bluetooth Headphones Noise Cancelling, in-Ear Headset with Built-in Mic Hands-Free Calls https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07M8LWN2G/ref=cm_sw_r_sms_apa_i_VWhGCbT4ZNFVE


Ordered. Last pair for sure. If this one messes up at least I can return it and get a replacement or refund from the Zon.


----------



## RobinFood

Paulnguy3 said:


> Been using the MW07 for the past week or two. The feedback is legit. The best wireless iem I’ve listened to thus far.
> 
> Have an extra pair for anyone that’s interested. Brand new.



Like for free? I'll take it!

Just kidding, I'm sure it's over my budget though...


----------



## Bob24

CocaCola15 said:


> Just downloaded and installed MTW firmware v1.25. Not sure from description if this is the update that will resolve the case/battery charge issue, but I sure hope so. The bullet points on the iPhone update app says "Connectivity improvements and performance optimization" (the other three don't mention case, battery or any such thing related to the case).  It does however apparently fix the strange battery level indicator imbalance, now offering "one common battery indicator for earbuds."  Does that mean if it says 100% that is actually the case for each bud? Hope so. I also hope this is the update that fixes the fact the case can't hold a charge past 1-2 days of being unplugged. You'd think they would mention that, right?



Any initial feedback on whether the update seems to be addressing the battery drain issue?


----------



## DigDub (Mar 7, 2019)

Gotten the qcy t1. My first tws earbuds. Quite comfy, no out of sync in video apps on my pixel 3 phone, no sound cut off, simple pairing. Bass is powerful and deep, mids are clear and picks up details, highs are present without sibilance. Amazing for the price.




And it supports streaming using AAC codec.


----------



## hifi80sman

DigDub said:


> Gotten the qcy t1. My first tws earbuds. Quite comfy, no out of sync in video apps on my pixel 3 phone, no sound cut off, simple pairing. Bass is powerful and deep, mids are clear and picks up details, highs are present without sibilance. Amazing for the price.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Nice!  Surprised they are using AAC!  I just may have to bite.


----------



## hifi80sman

clerkpalmer said:


> So my MTW will not update. Says 1.23 is “up to date”. What. And the app update but not the firmware. Is it possible it gets pushed in stages or something?


I would do a complete factory reset and delete/reinstall the app.


----------



## BigAund

How do you update the MTW? I use mine with Android phone and app, and I'm still on firmware 1.22.


----------



## Bartig

DigDub said:


> Gotten the qcy t1. My first tws earbuds. Quite comfy, no out of sync in video apps on my pixel 3 phone, no sound cut off, simple pairing. Bass is powerful and deep, mids are clear and picks up details, highs are present without sibilance. Amazing for the price.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Hear hear! Love the QS1/ T1.


----------



## RobinFood

Bartig said:


> Hear hear! Love the QS1/ T1.



Are they the same? We only have the T1 on Amazon Japan.


----------



## CocaCola15

Bob24 said:


> Any initial feedback on whether the update seems to be addressing the battery drain issue?


Yes, it seems to be working. I kept the buds in the case for a day and when I push the button it shows green. Also, there is now a single % for both buds, no longer one for each. Of course, the reality may be they are still different, but Senn decided to make it a single digit for both.


----------



## CocaCola15

BigAund said:


> How do you update the MTW? I use mine with Android phone and app, and I'm still on firmware 1.22.


I had the buds out of the case, but charged. Opened the App, touched the "firmware" area and it immediately went into update mode. It will show a line (typical download indicator) and it took like 10-15 minutes to complete. Once that's done, you have to insert them in the case to complete the update. It's version 1.25. At first, I was a bit confused, but touching "firmware" or the number, can't remember, launched the update download process.


----------



## BigAund (Mar 8, 2019)

Weird, mine does nothing when I press on firmware. Are you on Android? I have V 1.0.6.1669 of the app installed.



CocaCola15 said:


> I had the buds out of the case, but charged. Opened the App, touched the "firmware" area and it immediately went into update mode. It will show a line (typical download indicator) and it took like 10-15 minutes to complete. Once that's done, you have to insert them in the case to complete the update. It's version 1.25. At first, I was a bit confused, but touching "firmware" or the number, can't remember, launched the update download process.


----------



## CocaCola15

hifi80sman said:


> Nice!  Surprised they are using AAC!  I just may have to bite.


I have a pair too, bought them out of curiosity, and I am very impressed. I switched out the tips for a pair of the old Sony hybrids, the ones that are color coded inside, and I think they work better in terms of fit and sound. So tip rolling might be good. I also tried a pair of bulby-looking Complys I had around and they worked too. Not a fan of the stock tips. But $28!!! I mean, makes me feel silly buying the MTW, honestly, though I will keep the latter now that the FW seems to have fixed the case/battery issue.


----------



## CocaCola15 (Mar 8, 2019)

BigAund said:


> Weird, mine does nothing when I press on firmware. Are you on Android? I have V 1.0.6.1669 of the app installed.


See page 26.

https://assets.sennheiser.com/global-downloads/file/11230/M3IETW_Manual_EN.pdf

Sorry, no. I am using iOS, an iPhone 8+.


----------



## Bob24

CocaCola15 said:


> Yes, it seems to be working. I kept the buds in the case for a day and when I push the button it shows green. Also, there is now a single % for both buds, no longer one for each. Of course, the reality may be they are still different, but Senn decided to make it a single digit for both.



Great to read this thanks ... I might pull the trigger and order them then 

I guess the unified battery indicator is probably a way to stop people from contacting customer service and conplainting on bud loses charge faster then the other.


----------



## clerkpalmer

CocaCola15 said:


> See page 26.
> 
> https://assets.sennheiser.com/global-downloads/file/11230/M3IETW_Manual_EN.pdf



Mine says 1.23 is up to date. Annoyed.


----------



## CocaCola15 (Mar 8, 2019)

Yeah, and my post with the PDF link is pretty much worthless, it just says to follow the FW instructions using the app, which is pretty much what I did, I think. I should have documented it. Maybe resetting and trying from there is the best route. I was at 1.22 and went to 1.25. Funny thing is, I had just sent a very negative email to the Senn CSR I had been emailing with about the update. And when I went to check, I saw there was an update (on here someplace, I think, or on some site. The CSR never responded. I have never dealt with Senn customer support in the past (never had any issues because FW didn't apply to the Senn phones I owned, haha), but it's not great. Very slow to respond via email, if at all.

You would think they would detail the FW update process, beyond saying connect to the Senn MTW app, right?


----------



## CocaCola15

Bob24 said:


> Great to read this thanks ... I might pull the trigger and order them then
> 
> I guess the unified battery indicator is probably a way to stop people from contacting customer service and conplainting on bud loses charge faster then the other.


Yes, that's probably why they did it. I am sure they didn't equalize the battery drain issue, based on what the CSR told me: That there were different numbers because one bud (the one that handled calls) had more controls than the other and that caused an uneven battery drain by design, something along those lines. It made sense at the time, but ...


----------



## BigAund

Perhaps the Firmware is IOS only right now. I have tried deleting and reinstalling the app, re-paring the MTW, but it still stays on 1.22 for me and pressing around firmware in the options does nothing unfortunately.


----------



## clerkpalmer

BigAund said:


> Perhaps the Firmware is IOS only right now. I have tried deleting and reinstalling the app, re-paring the MTW, but it still stays on 1.22 for me and pressing around firmware in the options does nothing unfortunately.


I an iOS and am not getting the update.


----------



## Slater

Bartig said:


> Hear hear! Love the QS1/ T1.



So are they one in the same? Or 2 different models?

If they’re different, any advantage to one vs the other?


----------



## clerkpalmer

I reset the buds.  Deleted the app.  Still will not push the firmware update on IOS.  Says 1.23 is up to date.  Any iPhone users having this issue?  Anyone in the US able to get the update on iPhone?


----------



## SuperLuigi

Slater said:


> So are they one in the same? Or 2 different models?
> 
> If they’re different, any advantage to one vs the other?



So i've been trying to figure this out for a bit and this is my summary.

On QCY's website, they only mention the t1 and t1c.  No mention of the qs1.

On QCY's aliexpress page, there is no mention of the t1, only the t1 pro which is supposed to not be good.  But there is a qcy qs1 on the site.

From comparing specs, i believe the t1c and the qs1 are the same TWS.  While the T1 is different than the t1c.

Links for t1c http://www.qcy.com/product/95.html and t1 is http://www.qcy.com/product/93.html

From comments online, i've read that the t1c and t1 is the same thing which doesn't seem to be correct.  My assumption is sellers mislabeling what they are selling.

My thoughts are that the t1c/qs1 are the ones to get.  You will also see them referred to as the dudios zeus air(rebrand) which can be bought from amazon in the US quite cheaply i believe.  Sadly i can't get them shipped to Canada from amazon


----------



## BigZ12 (Mar 8, 2019)

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/QCY...D-Stereo-Earbuds-Mini-in-Ear/32983251153.html

T2C. So this is a new model? AAC, BT 5.0... $30... Free shipping to Norway. I might take a chance...


----------



## clerkpalmer

galaxy buds are available at att .com for $97 if anyone is looking for a deal today.  Only black is left.  I almost grabbed them but decided better of it since they seem to be tailored to Samsung phones and I am using ios.  Early reviews are positive provided that you are looking at a consumer friendly and targeted device.


----------



## Slater

SuperLuigi said:


> So i've been trying to figure this out for a bit and this is my summary.
> 
> On QCY's website, they only mention the t1 and t1c.  No mention of the qs1.
> 
> ...



Why not; for $18 I’ll take a shot.


----------



## Kermy

I almost made the jump too but like you I'm on iOS. But what really made me not buy them was this review on the verge: https://www.theverge.com/2019/3/8/1...es-truly-wireless-review-price-specs-features

Sounds like better off buying the Jabras instead if you didn't get the Buds as part of the pre order promotion.


----------



## clerkpalmer (Mar 8, 2019)

Kermy said:


> I almost made the jump too but like you I'm on iOS. But what really made me not buy them was this review on the verge: https://www.theverge.com/2019/3/8/1...es-truly-wireless-review-price-specs-features
> 
> Sounds like better off buying the Jabras instead if you didn't get the Buds as part of the pre order promotion.



Plus I already have the Jabras, the ATs, the Senns and the M&Ds so I probably do not need these.  I'll bet ebay will be flooded with them in 2 weeks and they will be going for $50 or so.

Edit:  the verge is really tough on TW.  Pretty sure they've trashed just about everything short of the MTW and even that review was middling as I recall.  But the review came from Vlad and he's usually pretty spot on.


----------



## 05stisilver

I totally disagree with the review from "The Verge". Definitely have plenty of bass. They have a similar sound signature to the Mavin Air-x. I also love the ambient mode which you can tailor to your taste. It also has an app with several preset eq levels as well as an option to preset your own. I normally don't use my earbuds for phone calls but I did have one and the person on the other end did not complain and did not have to repeat themselves or have me repeat myself. I did have a couple of issues with connectivity but it is still in the air. One time it was because I was streaming and my phone was buffering and the other is because I was about 15-20 feet away from the phone and through two doors one of which is metal. I definitely like these better than the Jabra's. They sound close to the Mavin's but not quite as good and the Senn's are still the best that I have heard SQ wise. I also do not get 6 hours of playback. I'm getting @ 4.5-5 hours.


----------



## TooFrank

BigZ12 said:


> I haven't tried V1, sorry. So cannot compare them. Thought my 2.0 bud was the same as 1.0, except from the case. But hopefully they are a little better. They've had some time to improve them.
> Would have given them 9 out 10 with BT 5.0 and the same range as the Senns. 8 of 10 with BT 4.2.


FWIW: I’ve owned the E8 from when they were released. Using the foam tips. Have to be careful when inserting them otherwise I can only ware them for a relatively short time without discomfort in terms of soreness. As regards the sound, they provide a very nice detailed sound. However, there is a tendency for sibliance that may lead to fatigue. In addition, there are drop-outs on the left once in a while, but it is of such short duration, that it doesn’t really bother me. Finally, I love the design and the making, so all in all  I’m


----------



## BigZ12

BigZ12 said:


> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/QCY...D-Stereo-Earbuds-Mini-in-Ear/32983251153.html
> 
> T2C. So this is a new model? AAC, BT 5.0... $30... Free shipping to Norway. I might take a chance...


So no one has anything to say if this is a newer version than the one some of you are recommending?
Anyway... I took a bite...ordered, but won't get it before end of March/start of April.


----------



## Slater

BigZ12 said:


> So no one has anything to say if this is a newer version than the one some of you are recommending?
> Anyway... I took a bite...ordered, but won't get it before end of March/start of April.



I wonder why the official QCY store doesn’t have it? Hmmm


----------



## chompchomps

has anyone tried using the QCY T1C for running/sports? seems tempting, but im afraid they will drop out


----------



## chinmie

BigZ12 said:


> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/QCY...D-Stereo-Earbuds-Mini-in-Ear/32983251153.html
> 
> T2C. So this is a new model? AAC, BT 5.0... $30... Free shipping to Norway. I might take a chance...



looking at the earpiece, i think it is the same unit but with bigger battery case. i already ordered the T1C, let see how it goes


----------



## mikp

chinmie said:


> looking at the earpiece, i think it is the same unit but with bigger battery case. i already ordered the T1C, let see how it goes


well, i would not trust QCY on tws for some time. Did get an early version that just cut out . Bothered the seller so much i got a refund + 10$ for my troubles.

Have some qcy normal bluetooth that are okay, but tws is not their area. The tws form factor is the same as their other single models as q26.


----------



## chinmie (Mar 8, 2019)

mikp said:


> well, i would not trust QCY on tws for some time. Did get an early version that just cut out . Bothered the seller so much i got a refund + 10$ for my troubles.
> 
> Have some qcy normal bluetooth that are okay, but tws is not their area. The tws form factor is the same as their other single models as q26.



you got the T1C or their other TWS models?

this is also looks interesting, it's shape is like the Earin M2 but with thenT1C open case design.

https://s.click.aliexpress.com/e/bUju0TX6


----------



## firewatersun

Paulnguy3 said:


> Been using the MW07 for the past week or two. The feedback is legit. The best wireless iem I’ve listened to thus far.
> 
> Have an extra pair for anyone that’s interested. Brand new.


What colour and price? Could you pm me please?


----------



## mikp

chinmie said:


> you got the T1C or their other TWS models?
> 
> this is also looks interesting, it's shape is like the Earin M2 but with thenT1C open case design.
> 
> https://s.click.aliexpress.com/e/bUju0TX6



dont remember the version, but some time ago.

Got the jabra 65 and mavin, so waiting for qcc5100 series and apt-x hd.
Also got the kozon a5, small and okay but the case drains their battery. ended up getting a full refund after 3 months of messaging. So done with random chinese realtek or airoha tws.


----------



## webvan

chinmie said:


> you got the T1C or their other TWS models?
> 
> this is also looks interesting, it's shape is like the Earin M2 but with thenT1C open case design.
> 
> https://s.click.aliexpress.com/e/bUju0TX6



That link didn't work for me  but I found them with a search for "Tiso i4". They look really compact. No info on what kind of tips they ship with, foam like the M2, or silicone ?


----------



## actorlife

actorlife said:


> Ordered. Last pair for sure. If this one messes up at least I can return it and get a replacement or refund from the Zon.


These are also usb-c. They will be here on Tuesday. Can't wait. Fun Fun Fun.


----------



## Bartig (Mar 9, 2019)

Slater said:


> So are they one in the same? Or 2 different models?
> 
> If they’re different, any advantage to one vs the other?


According to one seller, the QS1 and T1c have different chipsets. The QS1 is supposed to be more stable. I have tried both for a very long time and they are the same in every aspect. At least on iPhone, maybe the codec for Android is different.

Both are fantastic for their money. Well balanced sounding, nice supportive bass, fairly detailed and very comfortable. Pairing is a breeze too, and the case is way less clumsy than any other twe I've tried.



SuperLuigi said:


> So i've been trying to figure this out for a bit and this is my summary.
> 
> On QCY's website, they only mention the t1 and t1c.  No mention of the qs1.
> 
> ...


They are the one to get. 



chompchomps said:


> has anyone tried using the QCY T1C for running/sports? seems tempting, but im afraid they will drop out


I haven't tried them myself for that, but got some feedback from the many people I recommended this set too. Sporting is not their strength. Much sweat will make them slide out.



mikp said:


> well, i would not trust QCY on tws for some time. Did get an early version that just cut out . Bothered the seller so much i got a refund + 10$ for my troubles.
> 
> Have some qcy normal bluetooth that are okay, but tws is not their area. The tws form factor is the same as their other single models as q26.


They NAILED it with the QS1/ T1c. Best value for money in the entire industry.


----------



## chinmie

mikp said:


> dont remember the version, but some time ago.
> 
> Got the jabra 65 and mavin, so waiting for qcc5100 series and apt-x hd.
> Also got the kozon a5, small and okay but the case drains their battery. ended up getting a full refund after 3 months of messaging. So done with random chinese realtek or airoha tws.



i have their wired qy19 that still works to this day, but i did had their q29 which connection is patchy but actually sounded not bad at all, but i did sold it. this T1C has a better reviews, so fingers crossed

i have 75% success with Realtek tws so far. love the mifo o5 and sabbat x12, but encounter battery charging problem with the sabbat e12 (the master unit can only charge to 20% and dropping fast, making it unusable)

the Mavin is good, i like it. the Jabra is also good, but my main problem is the finicky fitting and sometimes the sound is louder on one side. i also prefer the e12 a bit more than the jabra (if only the battery isn't broken)


----------



## hifi80sman

clerkpalmer said:


> I reset the buds.  Deleted the app.  Still will not push the firmware update on IOS.  Says 1.23 is up to date.  Any iPhone users having this issue?  Anyone in the US able to get the update on iPhone?


I updated it from the most recent iOS (iPhone Xs Max), but I updated from 1.22; I was never prompted to install 1.23 prior to the most recent update, nor did I realize 1.23 was out!


----------



## smaragd

Anyone with the Sabbats know how to change the language of the voice prompts? They were originally in English but when I took them out of their case yesterday they somehow switched to Mandarin Chinese... !?


----------



## smaragd

smaragd said:


> Anyone with the Sabbats know how to change the language of the voice prompts? They were originally in English but when I took them out of their case yesterday they somehow switched to Mandarin Chinese... !?



Replying myself in case anyone else is looking for this... found out by accident.

Quick press the button 5 times and it'll reply the current language mode... quick press 5 times again to change... in my case it went from Chinese back to English.
Repeat the same for the other earbud.

Shouldn't be surprised if this would work with other Chi-Fi brands as well...


----------



## chinmie

smaragd said:


> Replying myself in case anyone else is looking for this... found out by accident.
> 
> Quick press the button 5 times and it'll reply the current language mode... quick press 5 times again to change... in my case it went from Chinese back to English.
> Repeat the same for the other earbud.
> ...



thanks!


----------



## Bob24 (Mar 9, 2019)

One the MTW firmware update, based on what’s said at the bottom of this reddit thread it is a mixed bag: https://www.reddit.com/r/sennheiser/comments/ae8phk/the_momentum_true_wireless_has_been_a_massive/


----------



## mikp

Bartig said:


> They NAILED it with the QS1/ T1c. Best value for money in the entire industry.



ha..


----------



## Zlivan

chompchomps said:


> has anyone tried using the QCY T1C for running/sports? seems tempting, but im afraid they will drop out


I use them for running almost every day. With the short, spherical foam tips mounted backwards, they absolutely don't move and there is less thumping than with the silicone tips.


----------



## mikp

chinmie said:


> i have their wired qy19 that still works to this day, but i did had their q29 which connection is patchy but actually sounded not bad at all, but i did sold it. this T1C has a better reviews, so fingers crossed
> 
> i have 75% success with Realtek tws so far. love the mifo o5 and sabbat x12, but encounter battery charging problem with the sabbat e12 (the master unit can only charge to 20% and dropping fast, making it unusable)
> 
> the Mavin is good, i like it. the Jabra is also good, but my main problem is the finicky fitting and sometimes the sound is louder on one side. i also prefer the e12 a bit more than the jabra (if only the battery isn't broken)



I find the mavin has better sound and volume than the jabra, but jabra is the better complete package. Did check and I had the qcy t1, pure trash tws. Constant cut outs, got the money back and threw them in the trash.


----------



## urii (Mar 9, 2019)

chinmie said:


> thanks!


x12Pro - can disconnect and connect earphones, without removing them from from ears - to press at the same time left and right it is long (2 sec).


----------



## chinmie

urii said:


> x12Pro - can disconnect and connect earphones, without removing them from from ears - to press at the same time left and right it is long (2 sec).



this one i do know, and indeed this is one of the most useful perks of the sabbat (mifo also has this). combined with the long battery life, it can basically survive a day using it without the need to use the case


----------



## Aeneas (Mar 9, 2019)

I saw this thread a few weeks ago while I was weighing up whether to buy Beoplay E8 2.0.

I’ve owned several wireless earbuds now, so here are a few thoughts. Unfortunately I haven’t really compared any side-by-side, so this is from memory.

Wireless earbuds were/are for the gym (including a long walk to/from) and running.

Here are some thoughts. I always use the most recent iPhone and iOS with Extreme Spotify or HQ Apple Music, so the source isn’t a variable.

*B&O Beoplay E8 2.0*

*Fit*: Good. No problems running. No risk of falling out. But I have to occasionally reposition for optimal fit (more for perceived fit than actual sound/seal).
*Comfort*: Very good. Slightly bulkier and heavier that MTW, but no fatigue after the first day.
*Isolation*: Good (silicone). No wind noise unless ambient sound is turned on.
*Sound*: Better at detail than MTW. Slightly better all round to my ears. Best I’ve heard (but not as good as even my backup wired Sony XBA-H3 from about 5 years ago).
*Connection*: Solid in general. Occasional crackling and distortion that seems to be caused by interference rather than distance. I tried to re-pair but it it didn’t help. If it continues to annoy me I will reconsider because it’s unacceptable for the price.
*Controls*: Good. No phantom button presses. But on one occasion button presses didn’t register at all.
Issues/comments:

Case build quality seems more premium (leather) but probably isn’t as durable as a plastic one for scuffs.
Wireless charging (also USB-C) is a bigger upgrade than you would think.
For better or worse, they must be turned on manually each time, and they seem to turn off automatically after a time if removed and kept at a desk or in your pocket.
If the crackling persists I will have to reconsider.
*Sennheiser Momentum True Wireless*

*Fit*: Very good. No problem running. Didn’t fall out.
*Comfort*: Excellent. Very light, so no fatigue.
*Isolation*: Medium. A little disappointing. I think a few extra millimetres on the stem would be better for me.
*Sound*: Among the best of any true wireless earbud I’ve owned, but not at all impressive either compared to wired. Not remotely close to IE800, but it has been about 5 years since I sold mine.
*Connection*: Generally reliable. Some cutouts to the slave earbud in particular gym locations (minimal distances, approx: 5ft). Single device connection. Awkwardly connected to the wrong device when turned on sometimes.
*Controls*: Easy and not painful when tapped. Occasionally failed to detect taps. Touch controls are not good with a tightened hood (running in the rain). Also see issues.
Issues/comments:

Very limited EQ options in app.
Transparent hearing never worked.
Case build quality was poor. I had a loose hinge and the Sennheiser logo was not straight.
After a couple of weeks one earbud kept registering phantom touches that reduced the volume so I returned it. Re-pairing and resetting didn’t help.
Ultimately on a par with ACS Encore as the most disappointing headphones I’ve ever owned—I waited months after they were announced and was among the first to pre-order and receive them.
*Jabra Elite 65T*

*Fit*: Decent but not as good as MTW or E8.
*Comfort*: Decent but not as good as MTW or E8.
*Isolation*: Good. Slightly better than MTW.
*Sound*: Okay. Not very detailed.
*Connection*: Terrible. Slave earbud would cut out anywhere that had many devices, from gyms to train stations. It would cut out all the time and was unusable.
*Controls*: Easy, but button presses were painful to my ears.
Issues/comments:
Terrible connection reliability for slave earbud was terrible so I returned it.

*Jabra Elite Pro*

*Fit*: Seemed okay in terms of playback but not secure. I almost lost an earbud several times and that’s never happened with the others.
*Comfort*: Poor. Felt heavy substantial because of HR reader. Fatigue significant.
*Isolation*: Good. Slightly better than MTW.
*Sound*: Okay. Not very detailed.
*Connection*: Quite poor. Cut out at busy places.
*Controls*: Easy but buttons were painful to my ears.
Issues/comments:

HR did not track reliably.
Terrible app and firmware update process.
Poor connection reliability.
Gave it away when I got an Apple Watch (HR).
*PowerBeats3*
I got these for free with an Apple purchase.
They didn’t fit my ears so I gave them to a friend who says the reliability and ease of connection is amazing.

*Bose SoundSport Wireless*
The fins were awkward to me and they lacked isolation, so I returned immediately.
Also too much sound leakage for my taste. I know I would only be at the gym or running outside, but it still annoyed me.

*Denon Wireless AH-C160W*

*Fit*: Poor. Earhooks were awkwardly shaped.
*Comfort*: Poor. Earhooks did not curve round my ear naturally, so the cable drop was as at a bad angle.
*Isolation*: Ok, but always ruined by fit.
*Sound*: Okay. Not very detailed. But didn’t use much.
*Connection*: The worst. Cut out all the time. Outside while walking or running, and at busy places.
*Controls*: Did not really use.
Issues/comments:

Bad fit and terrible connection.


----------



## Bartig

mikp said:


> I find the mavin has better sound and volume than the jabra, but jabra is the better complete package. Did check and I had the qcy t1, pure trash tws. Constant cut outs, got the money back and threw them in the trash.


Think you had the older T1, which was indeed crap. T1c / QS1 is where it's at.


----------



## Bartig

Seven truly wireless earphones under 40 dollar. It's comparison time.


----------



## srinivasvignesh

Nice, this will be a very useful comparo for a lot of folks.


----------



## howdy

Does anyone have the new Samsung Galaxy buds and possibly the jabra elite 65t active? I'm contemplating returning the jabra and get the Samsung.
My Jabra issues are left is noticeably louder than right and a slight fit issue but mainly the balance issue.


----------



## hifi80sman

Bartig said:


> Seven truly wireless earphones under 40 dollar. It's comparison time.


Request:  Can you specify which codecs are supported for each as well?


----------



## Ezaq

Need opinions on which to get, Earin M2 or Sennheiser? There is a 90 dollar difference from where I am 300 for the M2 and 390 for the Sennies.


----------



## clerkpalmer

Ezaq said:


> Need opinions on which to get, Earin M2 or Sennheiser? There is a 90 dollar difference from where I am 300 for the M2 and 390 for the Sennies.


My vote is senn.


----------



## Ezaq

clerkpalmer said:


> My vote is senn.


What about the MW07?


----------



## clerkpalmer

Ezaq said:


> What about the MW07?


Well that changes things. If you can sacrifice battery life for pure sq, then I change my vote to MW07.


----------



## Ezaq

clerkpalmer said:


> Well that changes things. If you can sacrifice battery life for pure sq, then I change my vote to MW07.


Is the Sennies battery issue still a thing now?


----------



## clerkpalmer

Ezaq said:


> Is the Sennies battery issue still a thing now?


My replacement set works well


----------



## Chineseboy555

Bartig said:


> Seven truly wireless earphones under 40 dollar. It's comparison time.


wow waiting for your comparison...


----------



## nc8000

Ezaq said:


> Need opinions on which to get, Earin M2 or Sennheiser? There is a 90 dollar difference from where I am 300 for the M2 and 390 for the Sennies.



I have not tried the Senn nor the MW07 but I sure like the M2. Just wish the battery lasted a bit longer than 3 hours 10-20 minutes


----------



## chinmie

nc8000 said:


> I have not tried the Senn nor the MW07 but I sure like the M2. Just wish the battery lasted a bit longer than 3 hours 10-20 minutes



true that


----------



## napkun

I just received the Earin M2s earlier this week. So far they've been great, but I can't decide on what eat tips to use. I've settled on some foams that came with my FH5s. I was wondering what you guys have been using with them


----------



## nc8000

napkun said:


> I just received the Earin M2s earlier this week. So far they've been great, but I can't decide on what eat tips to use. I've settled on some foams that came with my FH5s. I was wondering what you guys have been using with them



Large SpinFit CP100


----------



## 40760

New to TW, but unfortunately couldn't get a good fit with my new Nuarl NT100 after much fiddling and tips swapping. My ears and jaws just get the sores and discomfort.

I've since ordered a pair of Creative Outlier Air and should be receiving them before the end of the month. Hoping for the best, as going true wireless is really quite a liberating experience!


----------



## DigDub

I have gotten my hands on the Mifo O5 standard version as well. It's probably an international version since the language spoken in the earbuds are in English rather than Chinese which many reviews have stated. Compared to the qcy t1, the Mifo is muddier and has a narrower soundstage. The qcy t1 has clearer highs with deeper and faster bass.


----------



## yukiorui (Mar 10, 2019)

I just picked up a pair of MW07, which sounds great connected to my DAP which has Aptx support. I read on this thread and elsewhere that the MW07 also supports AAC, but it seems strangely unmentioned on the official website. I can also hear a significant drop in quality between my Aptx-supported DAP and my iPhone. This leads me to wonder whether it really supports AAC, or whether AAC is (significantly) audibly worse.

Anyone else have the same thoughts?


----------



## clerkpalmer

yukiorui said:


> I just picked up a pair of MW07, which sounds great connected to my DAP which has Aptx support. I read on this thread and elsewhere that the MW07 also supports AAC, but it seems strangely unmentioned on the official website. I can also hear a significant drop in quality between my Aptx-supported DAP and my iPhone. This leads me to wonder whether it really supports Aptx, or whether AAC is (significantly) audibly worse.
> 
> Anyone else have the same thoughts?


They definity support AAC and I’d be surprised if your heard a big difference between Aptx and AAC. Are you using the same type of audio files on both? Like tidal hifi?


----------



## yukiorui

clerkpalmer said:


> They definity support AAC and I’d be surprised if your heard a big difference between Aptx and AAC. Are you using the same type of audio files on both? Like tidal hifi?



For an even test, I used Spotify 320 on both my DAP and my iPhone with volume matching (well from my ears). I'm pretty certain I hear differently between the two.


----------



## smaragd (Mar 10, 2019)

yukiorui said:


> I just picked up a pair of MW07, which sounds great connected to my DAP which has Aptx support. I read on this thread and elsewhere that the MW07 also supports AAC, but it seems strangely unmentioned on the official website. I can also hear a significant drop in quality between my Aptx-supported DAP and my iPhone. This leads me to wonder whether it really supports Aptx, or whether AAC is (significantly) audibly worse.
> 
> Anyone else have the same thoughts?



I picked up a MW07 too and pairing it with my iPhone XS Max, which obviously has AAC... playing FLAC and DSD files via the VOX app and pleasantly surprised with the audio quality.
Don't think I would make that much a bigger difference with APTX... would have to try with my son's Android based smartphone...
I demoed the MW07 and Senn's MTW but I preferred the sound stage, detail and airiness of the MW07...


----------



## clerkpalmer

yukiorui said:


> For an even test, I used Spotify 320 on both my DAP and my iPhone with volume matching (well from my ears). I'm pretty certain I hear differently between the two.



I believe you. Perhaps your dap is implementing a cleaner signal that iPhone? Most people think aptx May have a very slight edge if any over aac.


----------



## clerkpalmer

smaragd said:


> I picked up a MW07 too and pairing it with my iPhone XS Max, which obviously has AAC... playing FLAC and DSD files via the VOX app and pleasantly surprised with the audio quality.
> Don't think I would make a bigger different with APTX... would have to try with my son's Android based smartphone...
> I demoed the MW07 and Senn's MTW but I preferred the sound stage, detail and airiness of the MW07...


Could the problem be Spotify? Those are not AAC files are they? Is it converting mp3 to aac which may be lossy?  I’m in over my head a little but Spotify is not native aac I don’t believe.


----------



## yukiorui

clerkpalmer said:


> I believe you. Perhaps your dap is implementing a cleaner signal that iPhone? Most people think aptx May have a very slight edge if any over aac.





clerkpalmer said:


> Could the problem be Spotify? Those are not AAC files are they? Is it converting mp3 to aac which may be lossy?  I’m in over my head a little but Spotify is not native aac I don’t believe.



Haha I have no idea.. but I suppose that's the compromise for convenience - at least while I'm still using an iPhone. No biggie - these were always meant for the times where wired earphones were a hassle.


----------



## smaragd

Spotify Premium (using the Connect app on iOS) seems to be limited to *Ogg Vorbis 320kbit/s* or  *AAC 256kbit/s for web player...*


----------



## clerkpalmer

smaragd said:


> Spotify Premium (using the Connect app on iOS) seems to be limited to *Ogg Vorbis 320kbit/s* or  *AAC 256kbit/s for web player...*


So i believe that may require re encoding versus native aac. Now whether that’s enough to make your ears hear a difference I don’t know.


----------



## albau (Mar 10, 2019)

clerkpalmer said:


> So i believe that may require re encoding versus native aac. Now whether that’s enough to make your ears hear a difference I don’t know.


C’mon guys, AptX requires same type of lossy-to-lossy transmission re-encoding, especially, as opposed to aac, apt even doesn’t have native file format. I suspect that diff that OP hears is mostly due to implementation of codecs between two sources or, more probable, degraded BT connection bandwidth that forces to downgrade bitrate for iPhone stream.


----------



## clerkpalmer

albau said:


> C’mon guys, AptX requires same type of lossy-to-lossy transmission re-encoding, especially, as opposed to aac, apt even doesn’t have native file format. I suspect that diff that OP hears is mostly due to implementation of codecs between two sources or, more probable, degraded BT connection bandwidth that forces to downgrade bitrate for iPhone stream.



I agree it’s unlikely but he says he’s hearing a difference and I was simply troubleshooting with him (or her). It’s pretty well documented that native aac sounds as good as aptx. Not sure about re encoded aac but the Spotify forums are full of people begging them to implement native aac on iPhone.


----------



## nc8000

As far as I understand everything is being recoded before going out over BT no matter what the original source as other system sounds and so on has to be mixed in to the output signal


----------



## clerkpalmer

nc8000 said:


> As far as I understand everything is being recoded before going out over BT no matter what the original source as other system sounds and so on has to be mixed in to the output signal



My understanding is that aac over iPhone requires no additional encoding making it superior to aac over android. Again I may be mistaken but I believe this is why aac is considered comparable to aptx despite the lower bitrate. Someone more knowledgeable than me can confirm or confirm I’m completely wrong.


----------



## Bartig

DigDub said:


> I have gotten my hands on the Mifo O5 standard version as well. It's probably an international version since the language spoken in the earbuds are in English rather than Chinese which many reviews have stated. Compared to the qcy t1, the Mifo is muddier and has a narrower soundstage. The qcy t1 has clearer highs with deeper and faster bass.


Thank you, that saves me 50 dollar. 

For the record: you are referring to the T1c right?


----------



## BigZ12

Bartig said:


> Thank you, that saves me 50 dollar.
> 
> For the record: you are referring to the T1c right?


What do you know about T2C? I ordered two days ago. Was shipped from China yesterday. $27 incl shipping. ($3 discount - coupon)


----------



## howdy

clerkpalmer said:


> My understanding is that aac over iPhone requires no additional encoding making it superior to aac over android. Again I may be mistaken but I believe this is why aac is considered comparable to aptx despite the lower bitrate. Someone more knowledgeable than me can confirm or confirm I’m completely wrong.


I found that 12 to 15 beers and that all codecs sound the same (smiley face).
Every Time I check my LGV20 it's always on AAC and it sounds spectacular!


----------



## chinmie

howdy said:


> I found that 12 to 15 beers and that all codecs sound the same (smiley face).
> Every Time I check my LGV20 it's always on AAC and it sounds spectacular!



to me aptx and aac are more or less similar with really minor differences. sbc however is more different. although to be fair after 12 beers they do sound the same


----------



## Slater

howdy said:


> I found that 12 to 15 beers and that all codecs sound the same (smiley face).


----------



## howdy

Slater said:


>


I like that one! I'm more of a dog lover than Audio by far and I sure love my audio!


----------



## bronco1015

SuperLuigi said:


> So i've been trying to figure this out for a bit and this is my summary.
> 
> On QCY's website, they only mention the t1 and t1c.  No mention of the qs1.
> 
> ...


I bought these last night under the Dudios Zeus Air name on amazon. Thanks for pointing that rebrand out, much cheaper. FWIW, they have 4.1 stars on Amazon with 400 plus reviews.


----------



## DigDub

Bartig said:


> Thank you, that saves me 50 dollar.
> 
> For the record: you are referring to the T1c right?


I believe the earbuds are the same between the t1 and t1c, only the charging case capacity is different.

I will try the tfz x1 armature driver and see if the sound is better.


----------



## Bartig

BigZ12 said:


> What do you know about T2C? I ordered two days ago. Was shipped from China yesterday. $27 incl shipping. ($3 discount - coupon)


It looks like a legit QCY product, but QCY isn't selling it itself for now. I asked one of the sellers if there is any sound difference with the T1c. 



bronco1015 said:


> I bought these last night under the Dudios Zeus Air name on amazon. Thanks for pointing that rebrand out, much cheaper. FWIW, they have 4.1 stars on Amazon with 400 plus reviews.


That's not too high, but I think I know why: the volume doesn't go really high on Android. It's the only truly wireless that has this problem for me. So you have this strange case that it's meh on Android, but exceptional for the money on iPhone.


----------



## BigZ12

Bartig said:


> It looks like a legit QCY product, but QCY isn't selling it itself for now. I asked one of the sellers if there is any sound difference with the T1c.


And what did he say?


----------



## florence

dweaver said:


> I decided to pre-order the Galaxy Buds, figure they will work OK with my S9 and since they support other Codecs like AAC I should be able to use them with my other devices.
> 
> Also ordered the Galaxy Watch Active to replace my Samsung Fit 2 as it has a new Blood Pressure sensor that I want to monitor my BP more closely .
> 
> Will post how the buds sound when I get them on the 8th.


Did you get them? If so how they sound? It seems that mine package won't arrive until the end of March due to shipping delay of the early batch.


----------



## Bartig

BigZ12 said:


> And what did he say?


No response. I think because they don't know... because there will be no sound difference. But that's my guess.


----------



## BigZ12

Bartig said:


> No response. I think because they don't know... because there will be no sound difference. But that's my guess.


Some others says it's just a new case with better battery. More extra charges.


----------



## dweaver

florence said:


> Did you get them? If so how they sound? It seems that mine package won't arrive until the end of March due to shipping delay of the early batch.


They back ordered my purchase the day before they were supposed to be delivered. I then saw online comments the Canadian release date was shifted to the 21st. Kinda PO'd me so I cancelled the order and will wait to buy them. Kept my Galaxy Watch Active order though.


----------



## BigZ12

http://www.avantree.com/truly-wireless-earbuds-avantree-13154.html
A rebranding of the T2C I bought on Aliexpress?
Cheap pre-order for US customers. $23.99


----------



## chinmie

https://m.aliexpress.com/item/32976506048.html

Anyone tried this one yet?


----------



## Bartig (Mar 11, 2019)

BigZ12 said:


> Some others says it's just a new case with better battery. More extra charges.


So the seller answers me... by sharing the specs of both the T1c and T2c. They're exactly the same, clearly.

About the new Bluedio TWS: I'm not very willing to be a frontrunner here. Bluedio headphones disappointed me sonically every time. Their sports Bluetooth is mainly bassy too. Did order an MPOW model praised in user reviews though.


----------



## Slater

chinmie said:


> https://m.aliexpress.com/item/32976506048.html
> 
> Anyone tried this one yet?



7hrs of music before they need a charge? I’m skeptical of that figure, but interested nonetheless.

I have a number of Bluedio’s Bluetooth headphones and earphones, and the Bluetooth performance is flawless on every one. I have confidence they would be able to pull off a reliable TW product.

It will definitely be boom boom boom bassy, as that’s Bluedio’s house sound. They looooove that boosted low end.


----------



## webvan

Based on the running time it looks like they could be using the Realtek RTL8763B like the X12 ?


----------



## chinmie

Slater said:


> 7hrs of music before they need a charge? I’m skeptical of that figure, but interested nonetheless.
> 
> I have a number of Bluedio’s Bluetooth headphones and earphones, and the Bluetooth performance is flawless on every one. I have confidence they would be able to pull off a reliable TW product.
> 
> It will definitely be boom boom boom bassy, as that’s Bluedio’s house sound. They looooove that boosted low end.



why not? my sabbat and mifo can also achieve that number easily  
maybe this bluedio is using the same Realtek chip as those two. if so then that number is realistic


----------



## chompchomps

Zlivan said:


> I use them for running almost every day. With the short, spherical foam tips mounted backwards, they absolutely don't move and there is less thumping than with the silicone tips.



cool, what about silicon tips? not sure if I will want to use foam tips for gym/running.


----------



## chompchomps

might just pull the trigger on a pair of QCY T1C's, they sound really good and tempting from all the talk here. how's the mic and call quality anyone knows?


----------



## actorlife

Dangit just ordered these. I found them cheaper (13$)on the bay though and got them there. Has volume control and suppose to have great call quality as well: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07PCQBQCL/ref=cm_sw_r_sms_apa_i_OaQHCb483BC5P
Will be my fifth pair. Well fourth since the Sabbat X12 screwed up on the right side won't sync anymore. Still have not found the Sabbat company to get a warranty replacement. Please reply here if you know where I can put in a claim or PM me. Thanks.


----------



## david8613

anyone purchase the galaxy buds yet? how do they sound compared to the Samsung iconx 2018 or the jabras 65t elites? I have them on order should get them soon. i am looking for better sound quality.


----------



## Morbeas

Looks like new Airpods might be on the way: https://www.cnbc.com/2019/03/11/apple-announces-march-25-event-video-and-news-services-expected.html


----------



## Slater

Morbeas said:


> Looks like new Airpods might be on the way: https://www.cnbc.com/2019/03/11/apple-announces-march-25-event-video-and-news-services-expected.html



If they have actual eartips, I’ll gladly buy them. Think a TW version of the NiceHCK EP10.

But if it’s just the same old ‘lay in your ear and flop around while everyone around you can hear everything’ AirPod style, then no thanks.


----------



## howdy

david8613 said:


> anyone purchase the galaxy buds yet? how do they sound compared to the Samsung iconx 2018 or the jabras 65t elites? I have them on order should get them soon. i am looking for better sound quality.


Let me know what you think about the Samsung Vs. the Jabra. I really like the Jabra for gym use but the imbalance issue really sucks.


----------



## bronco1015

Bartig said:


> It looks like a legit QCY product, but QCY isn't selling it itself for now. I asked one of the sellers if there is any sound difference with the T1c.
> 
> 
> That's not too high, but I think I know why: the volume doesn't go really high on Android. It's the only truly wireless that has this problem for me. So you have this strange case that it's meh on Android, but exceptional for the money on iPhone.


Bummer for me, as my phones are a v40 and mi mix 2S. but if i do like the sounds of them, maybe that will be the pair i start using at work. oh man, when am i going to buckle down and just use what i have till it wears out lol.


----------



## bronco1015

howdy said:


> Let me know what you think about the Samsung Vs. the Jabra. I really like the Jabra for gym use but the imbalance issue really sucks.[/QUE]


----------



## howdy

Anyone having luck updating your Senns to the new 1.25? Mine is still on 1.22 and will not update no matter what I do.


----------



## clerkpalmer

howdy said:


> Anyone having luck updating your Senns to the new 1.25? Mine is still on 1.22 and will not update no matter what I do.


Nope. Stuck in iOS 1.23.


----------



## indigo

I updated it a couple of days ago.  I only listen on android (app still not updated on android), so I decided to pair with my ipad to update.

Updated the ios app, paired it with senns. App showed only one battery reading, so I clicked on firmware, it says "up to date". 1.23. Tried tapping firmware a few times, gave up, left it alone for a bit. A few minutes later, up pops a screen, firmware available. Maybe it takes a bit of time to "read". YMMV.


----------



## smaragd

Anyone with the MW07 has suggestions for longer ear tips? I have trouble getting a proper seal ... 

Also worried when pushing the MW07s further inward I can hear some driver flex issues, the left bud  seems affected more than the right ... the left bud sound gets thin and muffled and needs moving in and out of the ear canal a few times to unflex...  unless I have a faulty one...


----------



## firewatersun

smaragd said:


> Anyone with the MW07 has suggestions for longer ear tips? I have trouble getting a proper seal ...
> 
> Also worried when pushing the MW07s further inward I can hear some driver flex issues, the left bud  seems affected more than the right ... the left bud sound gets thin and muffled and needs moving in and out of the ear canal a few times to unflex...  unless I have a faulty one...



That sounds faulty if you're getting a good seal IMO.

I use the Sony Triple Comforts. I also found the MW07 to be very sensitive to correct tip sizing (I have an M on one and S on the other) Same wwwi the wings, some people need a combination of sizes.


----------



## smaragd

firewatersun said:


> That sounds faulty if you're getting a good seal IMO.
> 
> I use the Sony Triple Comforts. I also found the MW07 to be very sensitive to correct tip sizing (I have an M on one and S on the other) Same wwwi the wings, some people need a combination of sizes.



Thanks, checking out the Sony hybrid tips now... if problem persists I will arrange a replacement.


----------



## howdy

smaragd said:


> Anyone with the MW07 has suggestions for longer ear tips? I have trouble getting a proper seal ...
> 
> Also worried when pushing the MW07s further inward I can hear some driver flex issues, the left bud  seems affected more than the right ... the left bud sound gets thin and muffled and needs moving in and out of the ear canal a few times to unflex...  unless I have a faulty one...


I use Spinfit tips (large) and no wings for me to get a proper seal. The wings actual push it away from my ear making the seal break.


----------



## chinmie

now this.  . i liiike...verry muuch..


----------



## smaragd (Mar 12, 2019)

Ok so I tried all these various tips and guess what ...
The Westone red star tips give me the best seal and thundering sub bass while reducing some of the harshness in the highs that I got with symbals... go figure.

Yes the Westone star tip have a small bore but somehow managed to slip them over the MW07’s nozzles...
Can anyone suggest a similar sized ear tip as the star tips bit with a wider bore?

Edit: found a good candidate if anyone else is looking... Shure “olives” give a nice seal with clean deep bass and nice airy detailed highs without harshness or sibilants


----------



## ricarva

david8613 said:


> anyone purchase the galaxy buds yet? how do they sound compared to the Samsung iconx 2018 or the jabras 65t elites? I have them on order should get them soon. i am looking for better sound quality.



This. I turned in my Jabras due to unacceptable hiss on the left bud, and am looking for alternatives. MW07 has crap battery life and call quality, Senns have connectivity issues (solved??), case trouble *and* bad call quality, B&O also suffers from hiss for some users... ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Looking to the Galaxy Buds for an alternative, since the original IconX seemed to be pretty competent. The reviews on the web are all over the place, though, so would like someone on here to give some insight.

Sitting tight.


----------



## Slater

chinmie said:


> now this.  . i liiike...verry muuch..



QS1 (T1C)?


----------



## 05stisilver (Mar 12, 2019)

ricarva said:


> This. I turned in my Jabras due to unacceptable hiss on the left bud, and am looking for alternatives. MW07 has crap battery life and call quality, Senns have connectivity issues (solved??), case trouble *and* bad call quality, B&O also suffers from hiss for some users... ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
> 
> Looking to the Galaxy Buds for an alternative, since the original IconX seemed to be pretty competent. The reviews on the web are all over the place, though, so would like someone on here to give some insight.
> 
> Sitting tight.



I posted a review earlier. I love the Galaxy Buds. I was pleasantly surprised by the sq they are comparable to my Mavin Air-x. They blow the Jabra's out of the water. They also have several eq settings as well as a customizable eq. Also they have an adjustable ambient mode which is good as well. I don't use them for calls but I did use them once for a call and had no issues or complaints from the other person. The fit is comfortable but.. I don't think they would stay in during a run. They work when I'm on the stairmaster and stationary bike though.

SQ = Galaxy Buds>Jabra 65t
Fit = Galaxy Buds>Jabra 65t (the main reason I returned them)
Ambient Mode = Close but because of the adjustability Galaxy Buds>Jabra 65t
Calls = Don't really no but would assume the Jabra
Connection = I don't remember it's been awhile but I would say = or maybe a slight advantage to Jabra. Not a deal breaker especially to try the Galaxy though.

I also have attached a photo of the Galaxy Buds app.


----------



## chinmie

Slater said:


> QS1 (T1C)?



yup, T1C


----------



## episiarch

smaragd said:


> Ok so I tried all these various tips and guess what ...
> The Westone red star tips give me the best seal and thundering sub bass while reducing some of the harshness in the highs that I got with symbals... go figure.
> 
> Yes the Westone star tip have a small bore but somehow managed to slip them over the MW07’s nozzles...
> ...



I'm using Westone red star tips with my Nuheara IQBuds which also have a much larger nozzle than they are made for, and they've been the best choice for me as well, providing the deep fit that I seem to need for a good seal.


----------



## urii (Mar 12, 2019)

I noticed, Jabra 65t Elite can be connected to Cowon J3 (BT 2.0). Earin M2 and Sabbat X12 cannot be connected.


----------



## ricarva

05stisilver said:


> I posted a review earlier. I love the Galaxy Buds. I was pleasantly surprised by the sq they are comparable to my Mavin Air-x. They blow the Jabra's out of the water. They also have several eq settings as well as a customizable eq. Also they have an adjustable ambient mode which is good as well. I don't use them for calls but I did use them once for a call and had no issues or complaints from the other person. The fit is comfortable but.. I don't think they would stay in during a run. They work when I'm on the stairmaster and stationary bike though.
> 
> SQ = Galaxy Buds>Jabra 65t
> Fit = Galaxy Buds>Jabra 65t (the main reason I returned them)
> ...



Thanks!


----------



## webvan

Has anyone ordered the Tiso i4 ? There are some positive comments on AE https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Tis...design-built-in-dual-mic-and/32980442718.html but not very detailed  They really seem tiny (Earin M2 like) but I can't find any info on built-in features or even how the buttons operate.


----------



## actorlife

actorlife said:


> These are supposed to have *great call quality* and are 15% off about $31 shipped. Confirmed with *volume control*. Hmmm since the X12 may soon be in the garbage + I like spaceships.
> Wireless Earbuds, Anbes 359 Bluetooth 5.0 True Wireless Earbuds 24H Playtime 3D Stereo Sound Bluetooth Headphones Noise Cancelling, in-Ear Headset with Built-in Mic Hands-Free Calls https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07M8LWN2G/ref=cm_sw_r_sms_apa_i_VWhGCbT4ZNFVE


The spaceship has arrived and looks cooler in person. Charging right now. Will update on sound and call quality later. Hooray.


----------



## chinmie

webvan said:


> Has anyone ordered the Tiso i4 ? There are some positive comments on AE https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Tis...design-built-in-dual-mic-and/32980442718.html but not very detailed  They really seem tiny (Earin M2 like) but I can't find any info on built-in features or even how the buttons operate.



the buds size are similar, though the driver and codec support (and other tech) are definitely different. still curious how it would perform though. although after this T1C I'm really satisfied. would make a small review soon


----------



## dweaver

indigo said:


> I updated it a couple of days ago.  I only listen on android (app still not updated on android), so I decided to pair with my ipad to update.
> 
> Updated the ios app, paired it with senns. App showed only one battery reading, so I clicked on firmware, it says "up to date". 1.23. Tried tapping firmware a few times, gave up, left it alone for a bit. A few minutes later, up pops a screen, firmware available. Maybe it takes a bit of time to "read". YMMV.



Thank you! This worked for me too. Will see if it fixes the drain issue in the charger.

On that note I have determined the MTW appear to only turn off when being charged. So if the charger runs out of juice they turn on. I found this out because they started pairing while in the charger when I was driving or walking around.  If so hopefully the firmware update can change this behavior. If not Sennheiser should know better. They could have simply had the sensor detect the magnets in the case and turn off by that instead, no fuss no muss.

Anyway will see how they work now that I am running 1.25.


----------



## webvan

chinmie said:


> the buds size are similar, though the driver and codec support (and other tech) are definitely different. still curious how it would perform though. although after this T1C I'm really satisfied. would make a small review soon


Looking forward to your review and opinion versus the X12 and others.
My first TWS were QCYs and they were terrible, didn't stay in my ear and SQ was poor, that was two years ago though !


----------



## bronco1015

Bartig said:


> It looks like a legit QCY product, but QCY isn't selling it itself for now. I asked one of the sellers if there is any sound difference with the T1c.
> 
> 
> That's not too high, but I think I know why: the volume doesn't go really high on Android. It's the only truly wireless that has this problem for me. So you have this strange case that it's meh on Android, but exceptional for the money on iPhone.


 wow! these don't sound b ad at all. i would say they don't sound 10 times worse than the mtw's despite being at least 10 times cheaper. and volume was not an issue for me at all, they go as loud as my psb tw1's, and slightly louder than the momentums.


----------



## chompchomps

chinmie said:


> the buds size are similar, though the driver and codec support (and other tech) are definitely different. still curious how it would perform though. although after this T1C I'm really satisfied. would make a small review soon



Hows the call quality of the T1C? the mic quality good? 

Using the TWS i10s currently and I can barely make any calls with those


----------



## actorlife

actorlife said:


> The spaceship has arrived and looks cooler in person. Charging right now. Will update on sound and call quality later. Hooray.


OK I have to say out of all the wireless Earbuds this wins on a big soundstage and separation. The clarity on the treble is fantastic and bass is very good and not boomy. I'm impressed with these. Easily my favorite thus far. Pairs fast as ****. Call quality testing is next. Stay tuned.


----------



## ashenwreck (Mar 13, 2019)

For the life of me, I cannot get my Sabbat X12 Pros to play from both earbuds (I usually get the right to connect, but not the left. And a couple of times I've been able to get the left to work, but then the right didn't work), even though there does seem to be some synchronization/communication taking place between the two. I've tried to reset and reconnect several times, but no dice. Is this user error or did I get a dud?

Edit: Looks like I got it to work after a 100 tries. I paired the left one first, connected it before I removed the right bud. Once the left was connected, I pulled out the right one and they finally synced. Thought I'd put this up as troubleshooting advice rather than deleting or wiping out my original post.


----------



## DannyBai

I’ve had the MTW’s for a couple of days and the firmware is 1.23 and says it’s up to date. Transparent hearing never works, lol. Nice one Sennheiser!


----------



## chinmie

actorlife said:


> OK I have to say out of all the wireless Earbuds this wins on a big soundstage and separation. The clarity on the treble is fantastic and bass is very good and not boomy. I'm impressed with these. Easily my favorite thus far. Pairs fast as ****. Call quality testing is next. Stay tuned.



what other tws that you compare it to?


----------



## actorlife (Mar 13, 2019)

Hi Chin, *Sabbat X12*(not enough clarity imo + won't synch to the right side and I'm trying to get info for warranty replacement. Last place),* Funcl W1* (Great EQ wish it had vol control. 2nd place), *HonShoop W1*(Great SQ with vol control a close tie except not as wide soundstage, but never the less a tie with the glorious spaceship) and *QCY T1C*(ordered these like 2 weeks ago should be here soon). These are also on the way for half price($13) on the bay and also have vol control: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07PCQBQCL/ref=cm_sw_r_sms_apa_i_TczICbRQWVFQE
Phew. I mostly use these for Music/Movies.


----------



## RobinFood

actorlife said:


> Hi Chin, *Sabbat X12*(not enough clarity imo + won't synch to the right side and I'm trying to get info for warranty replacement. Last place),* Funcl W1* (Great EQ wish it had vol control. 2nd place), *HonShoop W1*(Great SQ with vol control a close tie except not as wide soundstage, but never less a tie with spaceship) and *QCY T1C*(ordered these like 2 weeks ago should be here soon). These are also on the way for half price($13) on the bay: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07PCQBQCL/ref=cm_sw_r_sms_apa_i_TczICbRQWVFQE
> Phew. I mostly use these for Music/Movies.



What is this spaceship I keep hearing about?


----------



## actorlife

Hi RF, 
These. Amazing for the price: Wireless Earbuds, Anbes 359 Bluetooth 5.0 True Wireless Earbuds 24H Playtime Deep Bass HD Sound Headphones Noise Cancelling, in-Ear Headset with Built-in Mic Hands-Free Calls https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07M8LWN2G/ref=cm_sw_r_sms_apa_i_5qzICb4B6PX61


----------



## chinmie

actorlife said:


> Hi Chin, *Sabbat X12*(not enough clarity imo + won't synch to the right side and I'm trying to get info for warranty replacement. Last place),* Funcl W1* (Great EQ wish it had vol control. 2nd place), *HonShoop W1*(Great SQ with vol control a close tie except not as wide soundstage, but never the less a tie with the glorious spaceship) and *QCY T1C*(ordered these like 2 weeks ago should be here soon). These are also on the way for half price($13) on the bay and also have vol control: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07PCQBQCL/ref=cm_sw_r_sms_apa_i_TczICbRQWVFQE
> Phew. I mostly use these for Music/Movies.



nice! can't wait for you to compare it with the T1C. does the Anbes UFO supports AAC?


----------



## actorlife

I doubt it, but sounds great without it. It has the newer USB-C. The others I have is the older USB version.


----------



## david8613

howdy said:


> Let me know what you think about the Samsung Vs. the Jabra. I really like the Jabra for gym use but the imbalance issue really sucks.



The galaxy buds came in today, yay! First let me say dont listen to all the negative stuff on the net. I didnt charge them, they where at 60%. I paired them with my note 8 very easily, updated my Samsung gear app quickly no problems, the app had an update ready to install, did that with out a hitch, I put on spotify. Sound was good but was a little low to me, mmmm, not loud enough for me even though phone volume was all the way up, mmmmm. I went to swipe up on the bud a la iconx 2018 to raise volume, nothing mmmmm. Samsung changed the touch controls mmmmm, i was beginning to get very discouraged! I had a similar problem once with some sony buds so I checked in the app and my touch controls were set up to call up my assistant, I changed it to control volume bam! I have Volume control now good, hold right to raise volume, hold left to lower volume. After raising volume on the buds themselves they are now very loud, YES!  So please make sure before anything to raise volume this way first! Huge difference! I'm not sure if I like the new control scheme yet, I was a pro using my iconx 2018 swipe gestures. With the iconx 2018 you could control everything, now with no swiping gestures it looks like you have to lose something to control volume you cant have everything, I'm Still experimenting with this. Sound wise they are step up from the iconx 2018 for sure, more separation, smoother sounding, nice and clear good bass, defintely warmer, no harshness. The iconx 2018 sounded good but I felt were a lttle flat and sterile, no separation, harshy at loud volume, bass wasn't all that to me either, not deep and lacked texture. The galaxy buds are still new so I'm thinking with some burn in they might get even better over time. These are not audiophile sound but sound great! good job samsung. WOW! these galaxy buds are super tiny, the case is tiny too! Both very light. It makes the iconx 2018, and jabra 65t elite active seem big bulky and heavy. Zero disconnects in doors, I have to check when i go outside that is gonna be the real test. Battery life I'm not sure yet but im thinking they will do good since they are loud and I dont have volume way up.They pause automatically when u take a bud out your ear but dont unpause when u put them back in your ears, samsung please update that, it's a pain. USB type c for charging thank you! So I think samsung did good here. These are good for the normal price of 130.00 but I got these via dealnews deal on att store for 98.00 so get them while you can. These are keepers for sure.


----------



## howdy

david8613 said:


> The galaxy buds came in today, yay! First let me say dont listen to all the negative stuff on the net. I didnt charge them, they where at 60%. I paired them with my note 8 very easily, updated my Samsung gear app quickly no problems, the app had an update ready to install, did that with out a hitch, I put on spotify. Sound was good but was a little low to me, mmmm, not loud enough for me even though phone volume was all the way up, mmmmm. I went to swipe up on the bud a la iconx 2018 to raise volume, nothing mmmmm. Samsung changed the touch controls mmmmm, i was beginning to get very discouraged! I had a similar problem once with some sony buds so I checked in the app and my touch controls were set up to call up my assistant, I changed it to control volume bam! I have Volume control now good, hold right to raise volume, hold left to lower volume. After raising volume on the buds themselves they are now very loud, YES!  So please make sure before anything to raise volume this way first! Huge difference! I'm not sure if I like the new control scheme yet, I was a pro using my iconx 2018 swipe gestures. With the iconx 2018 you could control everything, now with no swiping gestures it looks like you have to lose something to control volume you cant have everything, I'm Still experimenting with this. Sound wise they are step up from the iconx 2018 for sure, more separation, smoother sounding, nice and clear good bass, defintely warmer, no harshness. The iconx 2018 sounded good but I felt were a lttle flat and sterile, no separation, harshy at loud volume, bass wasn't all that to me either, not deep and lacked texture. The galaxy buds are still new so I'm thinking with some burn in they might get even better over time. These are not audiophile sound but sound great! good job samsung. WOW! these galaxy buds are super tiny, the case is tiny too! Both very light. It makes the iconx 2018, and jabra 65t elite active seem big bulky and heavy. Zero disconnects in doors, I have to check when i go outside that is gonna be the real test. Battery life I'm not sure yet but im thinking they will do good since they are loud and I dont have volume way up.They pause automatically when u take a bud out your ear but dont unpause when u put them back in your ears, samsung please update that, it's a pain. USB type c for charging thank you! So I think samsung did good here. These are good for the normal price of 130.00 but I got these via dealnews deal on att store for 98.00 so get them while you can. These are keepers for sure.


Thanks for your initial impressions! Really curious for your thought on them vs. the Jabra. I really like the Jabra mainly for the fact they never disconnect at the gym. The only thing that bugs me is the imbalance from left to right buds.


----------



## david8613 (Mar 13, 2019)

I love my jabras 65t actives. I think they are stronger in the bass department. That imbalance problem I don't have with my jabras 65t, and I had 3 pairs for wifey and daughter too no issue. Jabras are really good. One thing, I found a negative on the galaxy buds is the ambient sound, it's almost nothing! Lol. Hopefully Samsung will fix with firmware. Jabras ambient sound is excellent. I think jabras app is way better also, full eq. For gym use I like the jabra elite sport, fully water proof, heart rate monitor, in ear coach, best app for gym use. they are just tricky to fit to get good seal, spin fits solves this.


----------



## howdy

david8613 said:


> I love my jabras I think they are stronger in the bass department. That imbalance problem I don't have with my jabras, and I had 3 pairs for wifey and daughter no issue. Jabras are really good. One thing I found a negative on the galaxy buds is the ambient sound, it's almost nothing! Lol. Hopefully Samsung will fix with firmware. Jabras ambient sound is excellent. I think jabras app is better also, full eq.


I wonder if I should switch mine out. I got the extended warranty at best buy so I wouldn't be concered with any warranty issues. The imbalance is a known issue and they are supposed to fixing it with a fw update soon.


----------



## david8613

I would, I think there was a bad batch. A known problem but not everyone had it, I guess I was kind of lucky. I got mine when first released.


----------



## iammarcy

Trying to decide between Galaxy Buds, Jabra 65t, and Sennheiser True Momentum Wireless. 
Anyone have any thoughts?


----------



## Demoncho

I have the Funcl W1 since a few days ago. I'm happy with the sound and the battery life (the main use is music and podcast while walking).

But I'm having trouble getting them to be on their site (I've tried different tips). They are continuously popping out of my ears. I have small ears and my ear canals are also small.

Can you recommend another model that fits better? (I've been thinking about trying the Sabbat X12)

Thanks


----------



## david8613 (Mar 14, 2019)

here are some pics of the samung galazy buds, Jabra 65t actives, and Jabra elite sport,  so you can see exactly how small these things are getting. did a quick walk down the hall at the office no connection problems.


----------



## actorlife (Mar 14, 2019)

Demoncho said:


> I have the Funcl W1 since a few days ago. I'm happy with the sound and the battery life (the main use is music and podcast while walking).
> 
> But I'm having trouble getting them to be on their site (I've tried different tips). They are continuously popping out of my ears. I have small ears and my ear canals are also small.
> 
> ...


Try the Sony Hybrids tips. I highly recommend the spaceship Earbuds with volume control. Go one page back to see the link. I have the Funcl W1 as well and love them. I have no problems with the included medium tips. I also have small ears. Also clean the tip with alcohol before each use.


----------



## hector.howse

Just got the Mifo o5s. Bit late to the party I know but just thought I'd give my impressions in case there were any other mid-range hunters lurking the thread (like I was):

The package is nice and the charging case has a very comforting weight to it (although it is slightly cumbersome to carry around in a pocket for extended periods, better to keep in a bag). The earpieces themselves are diminutive (smaller than they appear in pictures) and don't stand out too much. The shiny colouring is an acquired taste but it certainly doesn't look bad. The buttons are REALLY small but there's two on each earpiece which is nice and they're not overly hard to press. You definitely won't press them accidentally. Overall build quality is good.

The fit is perfect for me. They feel very stable and I'm not at all worried about them falling out. I'm able to lie in bed with my ear to the pillow with them in without any problems (although how comfortable this would be for a whole night I don't know).

SQ-wise I'm happy. Response is a tad warm but not overly so, and they maintain a pleasing amount of detail in the high end. Bass is present and kept under control most of the time, but in some songs does waver slightly into muddy territory. This is never enough to cause serious consternation and depends on what you're listening to but those looking for an airier presentation might want to keep looking. Even as someone who prefers a flat response most of the time, these provide a perfectly enjoyable listen for me and for poppy stuff they're great.

One thing I will note is that these are very picky when it comes to tips and positioning in the ear. You might have to try a few pairs and wiggle them a bit before they settle. Once you've found the spot though it's not hard to find it again. Isolation is middling, and I reckon they'll be fine to commute with. Noise floor is low enough to not be noticeable.

Connection quality seems solid, but I've only used them indoors so far. Only way I've been able to cause cutouts is by cupping my hands over both ears at the same time.

Haven't had them long enough to test the battery life yet so no comment there.

Overall I'm really pleased with the Mifos. The only TWEs I have to compare them with is the RHA Trueconnects which I bought my mum for Christmas. I can safely say that these are better than the RHAs in terms of SQ and connection (especially connection) and at less than half the price I'd call that a good result. Wouldn't hesitate to recommend them.


----------



## david8613 (Mar 14, 2019)

I gonna add some observations on the galaxy buds as the day goes by here.

isolation is very good
very comfortable in ear
ambient sound shuts off every time you take bud out of your ear and replace them. if you turn on ambient sound in app it should stay on until you manually shut it off.
touch controls work fine, but I am not sure I like the new control scheme. the iconx2018 with swipe gestures were great, you could control everything. for instance I cannot control volume and turn on or off ambient sound at the same time on the buds I have to go into app, this also effects your virtual assistant, its an either or deal, bummer... hopefully they can add iconx 2018 controls as an option in app in the future.
buds are magnetically held in place YES! looking at you Jabra!
bass is ample, ok treble not sparkly, warm sig, they are clear. sound is good, but not "wow" good, having it labeled tuned by akg I expected to be blown away, should sound special. its just good not great. same sound quality as Jabras, but it is better than iconx2018.
did a good test today, I went to a very busy supermarket here in the city, walked inside supermarket and outside in parking lot, most true wireless have lots of trouble here. I am happy to report no drop outs at all, zero! just a nice solid connection.


----------



## Nailzs

DannyBai said:


> I’ve had the MTW’s for a couple of days and the firmware is 1.23 and says it’s up to date. Transparent hearing never works, lol. Nice one Sennheiser!



Have you tried turn the transparent hearing on with the app?


----------



## DannyBai

Nailzs said:


> Have you tried turn the transparent hearing on with the app?


I have and I think it’s working but doesn’t seem very good. I wish when I take out the buds and put them back in, the app or the buds remembered that I had the transparency mode on instead of automatically turning it off. Overal, I really like the product. No connectivity issues so far.


----------



## Bob24

I don’t see much attention for the RHA Trueconnect on the thread. Anyone owns or has owned them on this thread? What do people think?


----------



## hector.howse

Bob24 said:


> I don’t see much attention for the RHA Trueconnect on the thread. Anyone owns or has owned them on this thread? What do people think?


No reason to buy them over cheaper alternatives IMO, apart from that RHA gives very good warranty service in my experience. Their performance doesn't justify their price.


----------



## Bob24 (Mar 15, 2019)

hector.howse said:


> No reason to buy them over cheaper alternatives IMO, apart from that RHA gives very good warranty service in my experience. Their performance doesn't justify their price.



Really? Did you test them?
Reviews I’ve read seem to be mentioning pretty decent audio quality (better that the Jabra which are not much cheaper), and also above average battery life and Bluetooth connectivity. Weak points I’ve seen mentioned are poor mic, lack of Aptx support, lack of transparent hearing mode, lack of app for advanced settings, and slightly fiddly controls. So I was thinking they might be a good option for iOS users who are mostly after solid connection and good audio and don’t care about other features.

What better performer would you recommend at the same price point?


----------



## chompchomps

Anyone with the QCY T1C with some comments on mic quality? just the mic quality holding me back from pulling the trigger on one of these


----------



## Bartig

https://medium.com/@scarbir/the-best-tws-true-wireless-earbuds-under-50-271b727bd2c9


chompchomps said:


> Anyone with the QCY T1C with some comments on mic quality? just the mic quality holding me back from pulling the trigger on one of these


I'm quite double on the mic. It surely isn't as good as on wired earphones or headphones, but on the other hand I didn't have any problem calling on a bicycle. See the link for my review.


----------



## Bartig

I'll update the post in my link soon by the way, since I've tested and compared this set of TWE's extensively.


----------



## david8613

I see alot of new affordable chinese/Amazon truewireless buds. I have brought some in the past, and never really liked any of them. Maybe things have gotten better? Any out there that have incredible sound and battery life that are sleeper hits? All I want is better sound than the current sony, jabra, or samsung buds but I dont want to pay master&dynamic or sienhiesr prices, too much for my blood.


----------



## chinmie

david8613 said:


> I see alot of new affordable chinese/Amazon truewireless buds. I have brought some in the past, and never really liked any of them. Maybe things have gotten better? Any out there that have incredible sound and battery life that are sleeper hits? All I want is better sound than the current sony, jabra, or samsung buds but I dont want to pay master&dynamic or sienhiesr prices, too much for my blood.



some i tried personally that folks here have tried and favorable are the QCY T1C, Mifo o5 standard, and the Sabbat X12. the Anbes 359 (the UFO) also has good review, but needs more people trying it to confirm


----------



## actorlife

Bartig said:


> I'll update the post in my link soon by the way, since I've tested and compared this set of TWE's extensively.


Damn you have eight now. I thought I had alot. Looking forward to the reviews.


----------



## mattwardfh

Bob24 said:


> Really? How you tested them?
> Reviews I’ve read seem to be mentioning pretty decent audio quality (better that the Jabra which are not much cheaper), and also above average battery life and Bluetooth connectivity. Weak points I’ve seen mentioned are poor mic, lack of Aptx support, lack of transparent hearing mode, lack of app for advanced settings, and slightly Feedly controls. So I was thinking they might be a good option for iOS users who are mostly after solid connection and good audio and don’t care about other features.
> 
> What better performer would you recommend at the same price point?



I had the TrueConnect and liked them. No connectivity problems, and I liked the sound quality better than the Jabra as I found them better balanced (more bass and smoother in the highs). 

Ultimately I found them a little uninvolving vs. the Sennheiser (which, obviously, is a substantial step up in price)—mostly a question of clarity, though I liked the tuning of the RHA a bit better. I also have AirPods and so my priority in a second set was sound quality rather than general utility/convenience. 

So I returned the RHA and Jabra and kept the Senns. I could definitely see a scenario where I kept the RHA, though.


----------



## sly_in_the_sky (Mar 15, 2019)

Hello,

After having bought and sold the Senns (x2), the E8, the MW07, Earin m2, I came back to my first TW, the Jabra 65t that despite the quality of sound that is a step behind those, AT LEAST, the Jabra WORKS perfectly, they FIT and isolate well...wich is crucial for me... sorry but it's not really the case for any of the others, almost for me.. bugs (Senn, B&O), bad fit (MW07), bad isolation (MW07), mediocre functionnality and so on...

Despite that I purchased the Sabbat E12 just for curiosity... they are nice but are a step behind the jabra in almost every way... sound is a little bit muddier and bass is way to present and a little bit boomy in comparison with the Jabra. High medium and treble are a little bit harsch... lack of details, separations and so on... but ok, it's a 70 dollars TW...


----------



## Bob24

mattwardfh said:


> I had the TrueConnect and liked them. No connectivity problems, and I liked the sound quality better than the Jabra as I found them better balanced (more bass and smoother in the highs).
> 
> Ultimately I found them a little uninvolving vs. the Sennheiser (which, obviously, is a substantial step up in price)—mostly a question of clarity, though I liked the tuning of the RHA a bit better. I also have AirPods and so my priority in a second set was sound quality rather than general utility/convenience.
> 
> So I returned the RHA and Jabra and kept the Senns. I could definitely see a scenario where I kept the RHA, though.



Thanks, probably a stupid question but while the RHA are obviously not as good as the Sennheisers, am I right in assuming their sound quality is a significant step up compared to the AirPods?

I’m actually in a similar situation to yours. Have the AirPods which work very well be lack isolation and sound quality in many occasions. I used to have a pair of Bose QC30s for those situations, but they died on me after 2 years and now using the AirPods while deciding for a replacement (ideally true wireless).  The RHAs and Sennheisers are pretty much my shortlist. The Sennheisers obviously look like a better product and technically I wouldn’t mind the price difference too much, but I’m just thinking that given how fast technology is changing in this space and how quickly batteries seem to age (at least for AirPods), it might be a good idea to go for a slightly cheaper option for now and upgrade in one or 2 years as even today’s high end products could look fairly dated fairly quickly.


----------



## mattwardfh (Mar 15, 2019)

Bob24 said:


> Thanks, probably a stupid question but while the RHA are obviously not as good as the Sennheisers, am I right in assuming their sound quality is a significant step up compared to the AirPods?
> 
> I’m actually in a similar situation to yours. Have the AirPods which work very well be lack isolation and sound quality in many occasions. I used to have a pair of Bose QC30s for those situations, but they died on me after 2 years and now using the AirPods while deciding for a replacement (ideally true wireless).  The RHAs and Sennheisers are pretty much my shortlist. The Sennheisers obviously look like a better product and technically I wouldn’t mind the price difference too much, but I’m just thinking that given how fast technology is changing in this space and how quickly batteries seem to age (at least for AirPods), it might be a good idea to go for a slightly cheaper option for now and upgrade in one or 2 years as even today’s high end products could look fairly dated fairly quickly.



Yeah, I think they're a substantial step up in sound from the AirPods. Lots more detail/clarity. I like the balance/tuning of the RHA more too—for me (people's impressions of the AirPods seem to differ a good bit depending on fit), the AirPods are bloated in the mid/high bass, and lack some high frequency response, in particularly the sparkly/airy bits. The RHA is much better in those areas.

The AirPods of course have an edge in usability and convenience, but you probably knew that.

It does sound like we were making a similar decision. I don't spend nearly as much as I used to on headphones, so I'll be perfectly happy if something comes along and makes me want to upgrade from the Sennheisers in a year or two. But I I could have easily gone the other way and spent less. For me, my listening time is limited enough that I wanted something above a certain quality threshold to make the most of it, which is a bar the Sennheisers reach. But if I was less lazy about using wired headphones (something I blame on the AirPods), I might have kept the RHA instead. I actually felt bad sending them back, given so many people had trouble getting a set without dropout issues.

(As others suggested you might want to look at the various Chinese options for better values, that's a lot to sort through and I can certainly see going for a better-known brand.)


----------



## Bartig (Mar 15, 2019)

I get that most of you are buying wireless earphones more expensive than the QCY QS1/ T1C. To each his own of course, but I would suggest to just go out and spend that 20 dollar on the QCY first.

The soundstage isn't the biggest, but they sound really balanced and clear, with a good amount of detail and treble and a supportive bass that doesn't overpower any other frequencies.

I think the sound is better than many of the 60+ affordable Chinese wired earphones I own.


----------



## DigDub

Bartig said:


> I get that most of you are buying wireless earphones more expensive than the QCY QS1/ T1C. To each his own of course, but I would suggest to just go out and spend that 20 dollar on the QCY first.
> 
> The soundstage isn't the biggest, but they sound really balanced and clear, with a good amount of detail and treble and a supportive bass that doesn't overpower any other frequencies.
> 
> I think the sound is better than many of the 60+ affordable Chinese wired earphones I own.


Agree with this wholeheartedly.


----------



## hector.howse

Bob24 said:


> Really? Did you test them?
> Reviews I’ve read seem to be mentioning pretty decent audio quality (better that the Jabra which are not much cheaper), and also above average battery life and Bluetooth connectivity. Weak points I’ve seen mentioned are poor mic, lack of Aptx support, lack of transparent hearing mode, lack of app for advanced settings, and slightly fiddly controls. So I was thinking they might be a good option for iOS users who are mostly after solid connection and good audio and don’t care about other features.
> 
> What better performer would you recommend at the same price point?


It may be down to luck a bit (I seem to remember something about earlier units being dodgy) but I wasn't happy with the connection quality of the pair I bought. They would cut out in one ear pretty frequently (only for a fraction of a second but it was still annoying). My mum (who I bought them for) has pretty low standards for tech so she doesn't mind but if they were mine I would have returned them. SQ-wise they were fine but not very engaging, slightly muffled perhaps. Tbh I last used them at Christmas so it's been a while. The mic is okay in quiet environments but doesn't work at all when there's a lot of background noise (but that's to be expected with TWEs at this point in time).

I posted a review of the Mifo o5 a few posts back which is the only other pair I have experience with to comment on and something I would personally recommend over the RHAs.


----------



## srinivasvignesh

My RHA has similar small cutouts and I had actually initiated an exchange with RHA (who were ready to give very good support, BTW), but my wife found that acceptable and she is using it to her satisfaction. Bingo on the mic experience as well...

I want to reiterate what I told earlier ITT about the mic quality on the Sabbat X12. It is really good. Much better than the other bluetooth devices I have used, RHA, Bose Quiet Control, Klipsch R6 bluetooth, Jabra Halo smart, VAVA moov, Byron BT. The Sabbat is usable in noisy environments where none of the other products could be used at all.  I have used the Sabbats dozens of times in very loud environments and I did not receive any complaint from the other end of the call.


----------



## Bartig

I've updated my article on best cheap wireless earphones, for those of you interested.


----------



## actorlife (Mar 17, 2019)

Bartig said:


> I've updated my article on best cheap wireless earphones, for those of you interested.


Page not loading for me. Working now. Thanks for the reviews.


----------



## Bob24

mattwardfh said:


> Yeah, I think they're a substantial step up in sound from the AirPods. Lots more detail/clarity. I like the balance/tuning of the RHA more too—for me (people's impressions of the AirPods seem to differ a good bit depending on fit), the AirPods are bloated in the mid/high bass, and lack some high frequency response, in particularly the sparkly/airy bits. The RHA is much better in those areas.
> 
> The AirPods of course have an edge in usability and convenience, but you probably knew that.
> 
> ...



Thanks, excellent feedback. Since you’ve had both, can I also ask which one you found better in terms of isolation (I would
use them on busy streets and sometimes on short flights).


----------



## assassin10000

Bartig said:


> I've updated my article on best cheap wireless earphones, for those of you interested.



Have you tried fitting some earbud foams to the Sabbat X12 pro? I had earpod/airpod shaped earbuds and they were lacking bass until I slipped a foam cover over them.


Also, ordered some QCY QS1/T1C buds to try since the praise seems to be steadily positive.


----------



## webvan

Yes the little foams help a lot, more than the silicon AirPod sleeves. They also give more than 5 hours, more like 7 and with their "permanent transparency" mode they qualify in my book as the best outdoor sports TWs. Their mic is great too and they can work in mono left/right.


----------



## chinmie

actorlife said:


> Hi RF,
> These. Amazing for the price: Wireless Earbuds, Anbes 359 Bluetooth 5.0 True Wireless Earbuds 24H Playtime Deep Bass HD Sound Headphones Noise Cancelling, in-Ear Headset with Built-in Mic Hands-Free Calls https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07M8LWN2G/ref=cm_sw_r_sms_apa_i_5qzICb4B6PX61



just want to make sure: can this connect to two devices at once? so far the only TWS that i had that can do this is only the Jabra (and Bose that I've heard)


----------



## actorlife (Mar 15, 2019)

chinmie said:


> just want to make sure: can this connect to two devices at once? so far the only TWS that i had that can do this is only the Jabra (and Bose that I've heard)


I'm not sure, but I don't think so. These connect so fast then any other I have. Maybe you can ask on the Amazon question page. I only connect to one device on at a time and they connect together super fast. For the price and features you can't beat it. Thus far no disconnection at all when using them.


----------



## mattwardfh

Bob24 said:


> Thanks, excellent feedback. Since you’ve had both, can I also ask which one you found better in terms of isolation (I would
> use them on busy streets and sometimes on short flights).



I didn’t compare them directly, but I think they’re pretty close. Neither is as isolating as traditional IEM designs; both more isolating than AirPods. Both provided some isolation without music playing, and outside noise didn’t bother me much with music. Probably depends mostly on how well each fits your ears. Probably not a factor to influence your decision—although the Sennheiser’s ambient mode does give some flexibility, which is nice.


----------



## Nocturnal310

jabra elites are $152 on amazon now and active version is $159.

i doubt i will be worrying about sennheiser momentums anytime soon as at double the price, i highly doubt sound quality is that much better.


----------



## clerkpalmer

Nocturnal310 said:


> i doubt i will be worrying about sennheiser momentums anytime soon as at double the price, i highly doubt sound quality is that much better.



It absolutely is that much better. Whether it’s worth 2x the cost is up to you but there is no comparison sq wise. Elites are average at best.


----------



## Bartig

All I know is from very, very short testing, is that de QCY QS1 absolutely kills the cheapest Jabra too. For 20 dollar. Man - I love it so much. Mostly listening to it for commuting, but having it in relaxed on the couch now and it's so, so good on iPhone. The tonality is just spot on, the bass is nice and there's such a sweet amount of detail. Incredible for this price.


----------



## marflao

Regarding the QCY T1C: does anybody know which/if any Comply tips fit on them?
On the Comply site there is only the QY11 model mentioned which can be paired with the 500s tips. Not sure though if those tips will also fit on the T1C.


----------



## Tommy C

Bartig said:


> All I know is from very, very short testing, is that de QCY QS1 absolutely kills the cheapest Jabra too. For 20 dollar. Man - I love it so much. Mostly listening to it for commuting, but having it in relaxed on the couch now and it's so, so good on iPhone. The tonality is just spot on, the bass is nice and there's such a sweet amount of detail. Incredible for this price.


 
Are these the ones with the semi-open charging case? Have seen them before, not sure about the sound but the case looks like a half baked product and not really practical.


----------



## Slater (Mar 16, 2019)

Tommy C said:


> Are these the ones with the semi-open charging case? Have seen them before, not sure about the sound but the case looks like a half baked product and not really practical.



Yes, the QS1 have the semi-open charging case.

But lemme ask you this. Since the majority of these TW cases aren’t even small enough to realistically carry in a pants pocket, why would a case having a flimsy plastic lid that can snap off really matter all that much?

In fact, I’d rather have a case with no lid, than a case with a thin plastic lid. Besides being 1 more thing to break, having no lid makes taking the ear pieces in and out of the case that much faster and easier.

Now, if the case was small enough to easily carry in my pocket, then yes I’d want one with a lid to keep dust and lint out.

BTW, if you want a QS1 with a lid, get the QS2. It’s case has a lid, and it has a bigger battery vs the QS1.


----------



## Bartig

Tommy C said:


> Are these the ones with the semi-open charging case? Have seen them before, not sure about the sound but the case looks like a half baked product and not really practical.


It’s far from half baked. In fact, it's the most convenient charging case I have. It holds the battery very long, the charging lights on the earpieces are visible because there's no lid and the earpieces hold with a very good magnet.


----------



## doo_wop

Just bought the Tiso i4. There is a good discount on Ali at the moment. I'm not very good at describing sound but maybe will try to compare them to some other tws earphones i have when they arrive.


----------



## Bartig

doo_wop said:


> Just bought the Tiso i4. There is a good discount on Ali at the moment. I'm not very good at describing sound but maybe will try to compare them to some other tws earphones i have when they arrive.


Looks solid. Bought it too.


----------



## Dcell7

Which one did you guys get ? 

There seems to be no difference if the descriptions are correct. 

Only difference is in the title (and price ofcourse).


----------



## chinmie

Tommy C said:


> Are these the ones with the semi-open charging case? Have seen them before, not sure about the sound but the case looks like a half baked product and not really practical.



for me personally, the open charging case design is ingenious and the most comfortable design for everyday use.if you want added protection from dust, you can always use those little drawstring pouches (which makes more sense to use with them than with the lidded ones)


----------



## DannyBai

I ended up ordering the tiso i4 and qs1. I bought the tiso from their store on Ali for $20 something. I think the $40 one is the same item.


----------



## chinmie

Bartig said:


> QCY QS1 absolutely kills the cheapest Jabra too



it's much better sounding than the Jabra 65t. I'd put in on the same level (or maybe higher?) than the wf-1000x


----------



## Tommy C (Mar 16, 2019)

Bartig said:


> It’s far from half baked. In fact, it's the most convenient charging case I have. It holds the battery very long, the charging lights on the earpieces are visible because there's no lid and the earpieces hold with a very good magnet.



I can’t see myself using it like my other TW earphones. I usually toss it with other stuff or in my pocket or in the glove box. 
Even though the price is right, it would have been nice to get a more traditional case.


----------



## Tommy C (Mar 17, 2019)

Slater said:


> Yes, the QS1 have the semi-open charging case.
> 
> But lemme ask you this. Since the majority of these TW cases aren’t even small enough to realistically carry in a pants pocket, why would a case having a flimsy plastic lid that can snap off really matter all that much?
> 
> ...



What do you mean? The Jabra Elite Sport comes with rock solid case which is a slightly larger and thicker than a Zippo lighter.

I will look into the QS2, thanks!


----------



## Bartig

Tommy C said:


> I can’t see myself using it like my other TW earphones. I usually toss it with other stuff or in my pocket or in the glove box.
> Even though the price is right, it would have been nice to get a more traditional case.


Yes? The QS2 or T1S:


----------



## webvan

chinmie said:


> it's much better sounding than the Jabra 65t. I'd put in on the same level (or maybe higher?) than the wf-1000x


That's a solid endorsement given how much you like the WF-1000x ! I'd ended up selling mine since I had all bases covered with the 65t/X12/Havit G1 but may looking into that QCY wonderboy  They must have come a long way because I got their first TWS a couple of years ago and they were terrible at all levels, fit, SQ, connectivity, a complete disaster.
The Tiso at 50% are tempting but I'd still like to see a description of how the buttons work. Anyone seen a manual somewhere ?


----------



## clerkpalmer

What’s the qcy t1 pro? So confused.


----------



## Dcell7

DannyBai said:


> I ended up ordering the tiso i4 and qs1. I bought the tiso from their store on Ali for $20 something. I think the $40 one is the same item.



I could not resist so i ordered Tiso i4 too. Went for the “cheaper” item.


----------



## DigDub

The qcy t1 pro has touch buttons instead of physical clicking buttons. But it uses Bluetooth 4.2 instead of 5, which may affect the connectivity. T1c which has bluetooth 5 has rock solid connectivity.


----------



## Bartig

DigDub said:


> The qcy t1 pro has touch buttons instead of physical clicking buttons. But it uses Bluetooth 4.2 instead of 5, which may affect the connectivity. T1c which has bluetooth 5 has rock solid connectivity.


Yes, the Pro is a different set. From what I gathered, you could best avoid it.


----------



## clerkpalmer

Yeah looks like the pro is old. Thanks. Is the t1 available from a us based vendor? Looks like China only?


----------



## albau

clerkpalmer said:


> Yeah looks like the pro is old. Thanks. Is the t1 available from a us based vendor? Looks like China only?


Amazon is your friend.


----------



## david8613

I currently have in my roatation jabra elite sport, jabra 65t active and the new galaxy buds all great sounding truewireless. I'm looking to upgrade my sound quality to sennheiser, b&o or master & dynamic sound quality but that price is hard to swallow. Before I do know some chi-fi is equivalent to high end stuff in the iem world, how about in truewireless? Is there anything approaching sennheiser sound quality in the chi-fi market.


----------



## howdy

david8613 said:


> I currently have in my roatation jabra elite sport, jabra 65t active and the new galaxy buds all great sounding truewireless. I'm looking to upgrade my sound quality to sennheiser, b&o or master & dynamic sound quality but that price is hard to swallow. Before I do know some chi-fi is equivalent to high end stuff in the iem world, how about in truewireless? Is there anything approaching sennheiser sound quality in the chi-fi market.


I was just considering selling my MW07 for the last few days. I just prefer the Senns and E8s for fit, I like the sound of all but the Senns and E8s just fit me perfectly.


----------



## clerkpalmer

howdy said:


> I was just considering selling my MW07 for the last few days. I just prefer the Senns and E8s for fit, I like the sound of all but the Senns and E8s just fit me perfectly.


My mw07 have developed a fit issue. The fin is sliding off the bud. Anyone else experience this. It’s quite annoying.


----------



## howdy

clerkpalmer said:


> My mw07 have developed a fit issue. The fin is sliding off the bud. Anyone else experience this. It’s quite annoying.


I don't use the fins on mine.


----------



## actorlife

david8613 said:


> I currently have in my roatation jabra elite sport, jabra 65t active and the new galaxy buds all great sounding truewireless. I'm looking to upgrade my sound quality to sennheiser, b&o or master & dynamic sound quality but that price is hard to swallow. Before I do know some chi-fi is equivalent to high end stuff in the iem world, how about in truewireless? Is there anything approaching sennheiser sound quality in the chi-fi market.


Get these. The reviews on there are spot on: Wireless Earbuds, Anbes 359 Bluetooth 5.0 True Wireless Earbuds 24H Playtime Deep Bass HD Sound Headphones Noise Cancelling, in-Ear Headset with Built-in Mic Hands-Free Calls https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07M8LWN2G/ref=cm_sw_r_sms_apa_i_AOVJCb3ENW0AW


----------



## david8613

actorlife said:


> Get these. The reviews on there are spot on: Wireless Earbuds, Anbes 359 Bluetooth 5.0 True Wireless Earbuds 24H Playtime Deep Bass HD Sound Headphones Noise Cancelling, in-Ear Headset with Built-in Mic Hands-Free Calls https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07M8LWN2G/ref=cm_sw_r_sms_apa_i_AOVJCb3ENW0AW




Do these sound better than the jabra 65t and galaxy buds? I also like the sony wf1000x. I want an upgrade in sound not move sideways.


----------



## clerkpalmer

david8613 said:


> I want an upgrade in sound not move sideways.



Yes inquiring minds want to know.


----------



## 40760

Just got the Nuarl NT01AX yesterday and it's great! I'm also waiting for the Creative Outlier Air should arrive by next week.


----------



## Luchyres

palestofwhite said:


> Just got the Nuarl NT01AX yesterday and it's great! I'm also waiting for the Creative Outlier Air should arrive by next week.


Curious to hear your thoughts on Outlier Air SQ and call quality!


----------



## hifi80sman

Luchyres said:


> Curious to hear your thoughts on Outlier Air SQ and call quality!


I second that.  Looks like it's got all the goodies:  BT 5.0, AAC, aptX, graphene driver, USB-C, 10 hours on a single charge, aluminum charging case, all for a reasonable $119.  If SQ and call quality are good, I'll bite and it's rice and beans for a week (at least that's what my wife is going to make me eat).


----------



## webvan

There's a review of the Creative Outlier Air here :  

He's pretty enthusiastic about the SQ but I'm not sure about the rest. No transparency mode, button is hard to press, bulky buds, shallow tips, bulky case, mic quality inferior to the Momentum (which is not great)...


----------



## david8613

I tried to order those creatives outlier air, only for Singapore residents, I could not order I'm in the USA. Looks good!


----------



## DigDub (Mar 18, 2019)

Got the Nuarl nt10ax. Sounds balanced with enough bass. Well defined highs without being sibilant. Volume control is useful as well.


----------



## Bartig (Mar 18, 2019)

david8613 said:


> I currently have in my roatation jabra elite sport, jabra 65t active and the new galaxy buds all great sounding truewireless. I'm looking to upgrade my sound quality to sennheiser, b&o or master & dynamic sound quality but that price is hard to swallow. Before I do know some chi-fi is equivalent to high end stuff in the iem world, how about in truewireless? Is there anything approaching sennheiser sound quality in the chi-fi market.


QCY QS1. Twenty dollar for the most balanced sound I've heard up to the 50 dollar earphone range on wired chifi. Tonality, detail and balance are really impressive for the size and price.

That's a general recommendation though. Have yet to try the Sennheiser.


----------



## actorlife (Mar 18, 2019)

david8613 said:


> Do these sound better than the jabra 65t and galaxy buds? I also like the sony wf1000x. I want an upgrade in sound not move sideways.


I have not heard those, but these have a great soundstage out of all the wireless buds I have. The bass is not over blown and sound great. The treble is Crystal clear and not sibilant. It's my favorite of all 4 sets I have. Go a couple of pages back and see my comparisons. For $31(with 15% coupon on Amazon) they are amazing.


----------



## actorlife

chinmie said:


> just want to make sure: can this connect to two devices at once? so far the only TWS that i had that can do this is only the Jabra (and Bose that I've heard)


If you scroll down you'll see a couple of their sets that do two devices at the same time.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07K68SLJZ/ref=cm_sw_r_sms_apa_i_5N9JCb4ZDA445


----------



## david8613

a lot of anbes models here, must be really good! anyway I just scored a set of sennheisers, cant wait to try them. I put some of my stuff up in the for sale forums if anyone is interested, I have a funny feeling this year is gonna be a good year for true wireless.


----------



## david8613

how many firmware updates has the sennhieser had since release? any known problems I should be looking for?


----------



## Bob24

david8613 said:


> how many firmware updates has the sennhieser had since release? any known problems I should be looking for?



The biggie is that they don’t always turn to low consumption mode once placed into the case and can drain their own and the case’s battery (plus if the case has no more battery my understanding is they will never auto power off). 

The latest firmware seems to have at least partially fixed these issues, but I only saw initial reports after installing it which left little time for users to make completely sure things are sorted.


----------



## Bartig (Mar 18, 2019)

Hope to be able to try out the Sennheiser Momentum True Wireless in a store later this week. Can't wait to compare them to the QCY and the Sabbat X12 Pro, the most tonally accurate true wireless sets I have.

The QCY keep impressing me. It even beats the Philips SHP9500 in tonality, I just discovered. Vocals sound more lifelike, drums are more detailed. The Philips was the most praised open back headphone under 150 dollar for years...


----------



## howdy

I wish I could update my Senns. Ive tried at least 20+ times to no avail. Mine is still on 1.22. Ive tried deleting the app a few times and letting it sit for up to 20 minutes to see if it would recognize and nothing. You'd think updating would be the easy part.


----------



## actorlife

david8613 said:


> a lot of anbes models here, must be really good! anyway I just scored a set of sennheisers, cant wait to try them. I put some of my stuff up in the for sale forums if anyone is interested, I have a funny feeling this year is gonna be a good year for true wireless.


I bet they will be as good as the Senns(congrats) you should try both and give us a review. I mean it's Amazon and you could always get a refund. I'm sure you won't return them.


----------



## david8613

actorlife said:


> I bet they will be as good as the Senns(congrats) you should try both and give us a review. I mean it's Amazon and you could always get a refund. I'm sure you won't return them.



That's a good idea I might do that, which model anbes do you you think is best sound?


----------



## actorlife

david8613 said:


> That's a good idea I might do that, which model anbes do you you think is best sound?


This one: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07M8LWN2G/ref=cm_sw_r_sms_apa_i_qLcKCbCTX039V


----------



## clerkpalmer

david8613 said:


> That's a good idea I might do that, which model anbes do you you think is best sound?



Is the suggestion that these really compete with the Senns for $37 or is this hyperbole?  I mean if they could hang with the Bose, Sony or RHA, that would be a reason enough to buy them.


----------



## hifi80sman

howdy said:


> I wish I could update my Senns. Ive tried at least 20+ times to no avail. Mine is still on 1.22. Ive tried deleting the app a few times and letting it sit for up to 20 minutes to see if it would recognize and nothing. You'd think updating would be the easy part.


Weird.  Are you trying it on an Android device or iPhone?  I have both, but I updated via iOS.  Worked like a charm.


----------



## hifi80sman (Mar 18, 2019)

clerkpalmer said:


> Is the suggestion that these really compete with the Senns for $37 or is this hyperbole?  I mean if they could hang with the Bose, Sony or RHA, that would be a reason enough to buy them.


I haven't found any Chi-Fi units I felt I could legitimately offer as comparison to the MTW or MW07.  Some sound "good", but almost all are SBC and I can hear the compression "ceiling", so to speak, from a slightly more congested SBC presentation with inferior imaging.  All else being equal, the value of codecs is readily apparent when using the same HQ source and toggling between SBC, AAC, aptX, LDAC.  Certainly, the driver, acoustic design, etc. play a primary role, but as I qualified, all else being equal.


----------



## clerkpalmer

hifi80sman said:


> I haven't found any Chi-Fi units I felt I could legitimately offer as comparison to the MTW or MW07.  Some sound "good", but almost all are SBC and I can hear the compression "ceiling", so to speak, from a slightly more congested SBC presentation with inferior imaging.  All else being equal, the value of codecs is readily apparent when using the same HQ source and toggling between SBC, AAC, aptX, LDAC.  Certainly, the driver, acoustic design, etc. play a primary role, but as I qualified, all else being equal.


Looks like the Creative Air have potential - although they are $100 not $37.  I started to buy them and then stopped because I currently have 4 TW earbuds in my rotation and I figured I would wait for more reviews.  I'd love to take a flier on these chi-fi units just for fun but I feel like they'll never unseat the big boys.  I've become fond of the Audio Technica sports even though are are probably $50 overpriced.  Fun sound, excellent fit and easy to connect/use.  I might hold out for those garish Klipsch and a sharpie to cover the gold...


----------



## howdy

hifi80sman said:


> Weird.  Are you trying it on an Android device or iPhone?  I have both, but I updated via iOS.  Worked like a charm.


Its My Lgv20 but I do have a ipod touch I could try. My LGV20 is my main source until I (think) buy the new Fiio M11 as a all around source.


----------



## clerkpalmer

howdy said:


> Its My Lgv20 but I do have a ipod touch I could try. My LGV20 is my main source until I (think) buy the new Fiio M11 as a all around source.



Still not updating over iOS for me.


----------



## actorlife

clerkpalmer said:


> Is the suggestion that these really compete with the Senns for $37 or is this hyperbole?  I mean if they could hang with the Bose, Sony or RHA, that would be a reason enough to buy them.


Just buy them spaceship and you'll see.


----------



## chinmie

actorlife said:


> Just buy them spaceship and you'll see.



have you received your qcy yet?


----------



## albau

hifi80sman said:


> I haven't found any Chi-Fi units I felt I could legitimately offer as comparison to the MTW or MW07.  Some sound "good", but almost all are SBC and I can hear the compression "ceiling", so to speak, from a slightly more congested SBC presentation with inferior imaging.  All else being equal, the value of codecs is readily apparent when using the same HQ source and toggling between SBC, AAC, aptX, LDAC.  Certainly, the driver, acoustic design, etc. play a primary role, but as I qualified, all else being equal.


Agreed fully. This thread now is in a prolonged fit of a chi-fi love, so out of curiosity I’ve got myself some famed qcy t1. Soundwise they’re indeed more or less in 65t class (more air, less meat). Not even remotely close to mw07 or e8 or, I suspect, mtw. Rest of the package is decidedly under $50 class - cheap and light plastic, no volume control, no auto pause, bulky case with no lid. But for $25 they are awesome, I guess. Btw, on my S9+ they play aac according to developer options.


----------



## indigo (Mar 19, 2019)

howdy said:


> I wish I could update my Senns. Ive tried at least 20+ times to no avail. Mine is still on 1.22. Ive tried deleting the app a few times and letting it sit for up to 20 minutes to see if it would recognize and nothing. You'd think updating would be the easy part.


Have you tried unpairing it by “forgetting “ them? I am also on android but updated with ios.


----------



## hifi80sman

albau said:


> Agreed fully. This thread now is in a prolonged fit of a chi-fi love, so out of curiosity I’ve got myself some famed qcy t1. Soundwise they’re indeed more or less in 65t class (more air, less meat). Not even remotely close to mw07 or e8 or, I suspect, mtw. Rest of the package is decidedly under $50 class - cheap and light plastic, no volume control, no auto pause, bulky case with no lid. But for $25 they are awesome, I guess. Btw, on my S9+ they play aac according to developer options.


I find myself buying Chi-Fi units out of curiosity (and trying to hit a jackpot) to see if some at least use AAC and sound like magic.  Most of the sellers indicate these random Chi-Fi units support AAC, but alas, most are just SBC and the sellers are just full of sheet.

The Creatives look interesting, so I may pull the trigger, but I'm not really sure what niche they'll fit.  People around me a are beginning to think I'm like a dope fiend.


----------



## hifi80sman (Mar 19, 2019)

howdy said:


> I wish I could update my Senns. Ive tried at least 20+ times to no avail. Mine is still on 1.22. Ive tried deleting the app a few times and letting it sit for up to 20 minutes to see if it would recognize and nothing. You'd think updating would be the easy part.





indigo said:


> Have you tried unpairing it by “forgetting “ them? I am also on android but updated with ios.


I'm sure he tried that 19 attempts ago.


----------



## Slater

hifi80sman said:


> I find myself buying Chi-Fi units out of curiosity (and trying to hit a jackpot) to see if some at least use AAC and sound like magic.  Most of the sellers indicate these random Chi-Fi units support AAC, but alas, most are just SBC and the sellers are just full of sheet.
> 
> The Creatives look interesting, so I may pull the trigger, but I'm not really sure what niche they'll fit.  People around me a are beginning to think I'm like a dope fiend.



QCY QS2 supports AAC. Since people seem to be bonkers over the QS1, why not give the QS2 a try?


----------



## david8613 (Mar 19, 2019)

I order that anbes model we will see, I have used a lot true wireless over the years. I will tell you if they sound good or not, I hope its a sleeper hit! I like those kinds of gems. guys I wanted to say I was comparing my Jabra 65t and Samsung galaxy buds yesterday and I am beginning to think the galaxy buds are much better than people want to admit, the online reviews are not giving them justice, I think they sound, smoother cleaner and go deeper in bass, mids are good and treble is a lot better more natural overall, less processed to my ears than the 65t active! I have to do more critical listening.  they are definitely a lot more comfortable, lighter in ear and the controls just work better too. I don't understand way the reviews are not so good for the galaxy buds.


----------



## BigZ12 (Mar 19, 2019)

It's amazing how much an eartip can change the sound and experience of an in-ear headset. I'm glad I'm such a "nerd" that I don't just use the standard included tips...
Have tested a lot of different tips on my B&O E8 2.0.
Comply Ts-200 Medium/Large, T-200 M/L, Symbio by MandarinEs M/L, Spinfit CP-100 M/L and Spinfit CP-100Z L. (and of course briefly tried the default silicon tips that's included)
The best fit is the Spinfit CP-100Z L for me, very comfortable, with good seal and tight punchy bass. BUT the highs are a bit too sharp. The "s-sounds" are too sharp, especially on female vocals. Sadly 
So after intense testing  my choice fell on the Ts-200 Mediums. (The large ones pushed the buds too far out of the ear, and did not fit in the charging case). Good seal, good bass and the highs are warmer than with the Spinfits.


----------



## vladzakhar

The only annoying thing, when I had B&O E8s was that half second disconnection on the left bud. Did they fix it with E8 2.0s?


----------



## 05stisilver

david8613 said:


> I order that anbes model we will see, I have used a lot true wireless over the years. I will tell you if they sound good or not, I hope its a sleeper hit! I like those kinds of gems. guys I wanted to say I was comparing my Jabra 65t and Samsung galaxy buds yesterday and I am beginning to think the galaxy buds are much better than people want to admit, the online reviews are not giving them justice, I think they sound, smoother cleaner and go deeper in bass, mids are good and treble is a lot better more natural overall, less processed to my ears than the 65t active! I have to do more critical listening.  they are definitely a lot more comfortable, lighter in ear and the controls just work better too. I don't understand way the reviews are not so good for the galaxy buds.



They are much better than the Jabra 65t I posted that a couple of times earlier. They are a solid set. They almost sound as good as my Mavin's but neither is nearly as good SQ wise as the Senn's and I would assume the MW07. The Senn's had to many issue's for a 300 set so I returned them.


----------



## BigZ12

vladzakhar said:


> The only annoying thing, when I had B&O E8s was that half second disconnection on the left bud. Did they fix it with E8 2.0s?


No dropouts on the left bud alone on mine. 
I have (as I've stated before) more dropouts (on both) walking around my apartment compared to the Senn' MTW. Guess that's because of the BT4.2 vs BT5.0?


----------



## indigo

hifi80sman said:


> I'm sure he tried that 19 attempts ago.


Yeah, no, lol.  Should have phrased it better. Have you tried unpairing it on ios? That worked for me after a few attempts, coming from android.


----------



## actorlife (Mar 19, 2019)

chinmie said:


> have you received your qcy yet?


Not yet hoping sometime this week. *Edit* looks like they are in San Francisco(I'm in Florida) so should be here any day now hopefully. I can't wait to compare the soundstage of the Anbes spaceship to them. I'll be sure to post when I get them.


----------



## actorlife (Mar 19, 2019)

david8613 said:


> I order that anbes model we will see, I have used a lot true wireless over the years. I will tell you if they sound good or not, I hope its a sleeper hit! I like those kinds of gems. guys I wanted to say I was comparing my Jabra 65t and Samsung galaxy buds yesterday and I am beginning to think the galaxy buds are much better than people want to admit, the online reviews are not giving them justice, I think they sound, smoother cleaner and go deeper in bass, mids are good and treble is a lot better more natural overall, less processed to my ears than the 65t active! I have to do more critical listening.  they are definitely a lot more comfortable, lighter in ear and the controls just work better too. I don't understand way the reviews are not so good for the galaxy buds.


 Great news can't wait to see your thoughts on them. Are you in the US?


----------



## david8613

Yes in the USA.


----------



## david8613

I saw these and said to myself these look a lot like the anbes, what do you think?
https://www.target.com/p/jbl-free-x-true-wireless-earbuds/-/A-75575605

anyone know what true wireless models that are coming down the pipe?  I saw these and thought this looks cool, but no specs yet.
https://www.engadget.com/2019/01/03/klipsch-true-wireless-earbuds-stainless-steel-charging-case/


----------



## david8613

how did the sennheiser get such a bad review here?

https://www.rtings.com/headphones/reviews/sennheiser/momentum-true-wireless


----------



## actorlife

david8613 said:


> I saw these and said to myself these look a lot like the anbes, what do you think?
> https://www.target.com/p/jbl-free-x-true-wireless-earbuds/-/A-75575605
> 
> anyone know what true wireless models that are coming down the pipe?  I saw these and thought this looks cool, but no specs yet.
> https://www.engadget.com/2019/01/03/klipsch-true-wireless-earbuds-stainless-steel-charging-case/


Nope the case is different. I bet the Anbes are just as good or better than the JBL.


----------



## clerkpalmer

david8613 said:


> how did the sennheiser get such a bad review here?
> 
> https://www.rtings.com/headphones/reviews/sennheiser/momentum-true-wireless



I don't think it's that bad.  They are rating these as "closed back headphones" and I don't think Rtings deducts for things like "truly wireless".  That said, I am personally surprised by all the rave reviews about the MTM SQ.  To me, the MTW is a very good well-rounded TW headset.  It checks many boxes - good fit, good SQ, good app, decent battery.  But, in terms of SQ, I would place it closer to the Bose, Sony and RHA than the MW07.  Sound is subjective and a ton of reviews say that they beat the MW07 but those surprise me because at least to my ears, it's not that close.  IF you look at Rtings, they actually like the SQ right up to the treble response.  I boost my treble on the app to help this but the MTW do not sparkle or shimmer like the MW07.  Be nice if Rtings put the MW07 through a test drive.


----------



## Bartig

In search of the best low cost TWE, I just bought this one. Don't expect much of it though - Bluedio's sound quality disappointed me before - but lots of people seem to like their products, so why not?


----------



## vinzx23

Hi everyone . i just bought qcy t1c and quite impressed with the sound quality . But i am searching for tws with better bass . Currently i am looking at sabbat x12 pro. Is sabbat x12 pro have greater bass than qcy t1c ? *i am a basshead


----------



## Slater (Mar 20, 2019)

vinzx23 said:


> Hi everyone . i just bought qcy t1c and quite impressed with the sound quality . But i am searching for tws with better bass . Currently i am looking at sabbat x12 pro. Is sabbat x12 pro have greater bass than qcy t1c ? *i am a basshead



Is EQ an option?

You could also try tips with the narrowest bore possible, like Olives or Sony Hybrids.

Finally, if you lift up the nozzle mesh, you can put a small piece of acoustic foam down in the nozzle. Then stick the nozzle filter back into place. That will boost the low end of any IEM.

You’ll have to experiment with different sizes and densities of foam, since I don’t know the exact size of the nozzle. You don’t want it packed too dense or it will choke the sound. You don’t want it loose and bouncing around inside either. You want just enough where it stays in place and the foam is partially compressed.


----------



## Bartig

vinzx23 said:


> Hi everyone . i just bought qcy t1c and quite impressed with the sound quality . But i am searching for tws with better bass . Currently i am looking at sabbat x12 pro. Is sabbat x12 pro have greater bass than qcy t1c ? *i am a basshead


No, the Sabbat is the bass lightest of the eight pair I have. The Tronsmart Encore Spunky Buds is the most bass heavy one, still maintaining a fairly detailed sound.

Really. The Spunky Buds just pump in your ear.

Ahum.


----------



## david8613 (Mar 20, 2019)

guys check your Samsung gear app, Samsung released another update for the Samsung galaxy buds, even though I am having zero problems since I received them they have been flawless, I am starting to get a little attached to these, for example the Jabra 65t active are actually gargantuan and feel heavy in ear, the galaxy buds are nice, light and small in ear. a very solid set of true wireless good job Samsung.

the update still didn't fix the thing when you have ambient mode on, and you take a bud out and put it back in and it turns ambient mode off, it should stay on until you manually shut it off. I use this in office a lot, its a pain,


----------



## BobJS

So I tried the Anbes flying saucer, and I have to say that while pretty good for the money, I'm not a great fan.  I have put these into the "not going to use - will make a great gift" pile.  Not sure exactly what it is.  Sounds a little thin?  Or maybe too V-shaped for me?  Thought I heard a bit of bass distortion as well (I don't play music particularly loud).

Admittedly, I didn't give them much of a try-out, I just thought "These sound pretty damn good for $36, but I can't see myself listening to them".

YMMV

If pressed to identify why I really don't care for them, I would have to give them more head time.


----------



## Bartig

BobJS said:


> So I tried the Anbes flying saucer, and I have to say that while pretty good for the money, I'm not a great fan.  I have put these into the "not going to use - will make a great gift" pile.  Not sure exactly what it is.  Sounds a little thin?  Or maybe too V-shaped for me?  Thought I heard a bit of bass distortion as well (I don't play music particularly loud).
> 
> Admittedly, I didn't give them much of a try-out, I just thought "These sound pretty damn good for $36, but I can't see myself listening to them".
> 
> ...


Good start, I'd like to know more. What is your daily twe?


----------



## BobJS

Bartig said:


> Good start, I'd like to know more. What is your daily twe?



I exercise 2x a day and use the M&D MW07.  More than enough battery for me, and certainly not a fair fight.  I enjoy the Bose Soundsport Free when I'm lying around.  I have the Jabra elite active but frankly don't use them much any more.

On the less expensive side, I like the Mavin air-x.  And to show I'm not a snob, I like the QCY T1C as well. I should really give the Anbes another chance if for no other reason than to pin down what bothers me about it.


----------



## webvan

vinzx23 said:


> Hi everyone . i just bought qcy t1c and quite impressed with the sound quality . But i am searching for tws with better bass . Currently i am looking at sabbat x12 pro. Is sabbat x12 pro have greater bass than qcy t1c ? *i am a basshead


The X12 have an open design so have a pleasant airy sound and a bit bass light. To fix that I originally tucked them a bit sideways in my ears. That wasn't great for the highs and there was a bit of a strain. 

The fix was to use little foam covers that improve comfort and the bass response without compromising the highs. This makes them a great all rounder and by far the best TWEs for open air sports (stay aware, no thumping) and great for quiet environments.


----------



## david8613

BobJS said:


> I exercise 2x a day and use the M&D MW07.  More than enough battery for me, and certainly not a fair fight.  I enjoy the Bose Soundsport Free when I'm lying around.  I have the Jabra elite active but frankly don't use them much any more.
> 
> On the less expensive side, I like the Mavin air-x.  And to show I'm not a snob, I like the QCY T1C as well. I should really give the Anbes another chance if for no other reason than to pin down what bothers me about it.



I always give a chance for speakers, head phones and ear buds to burn in. for me I can always tell a difference in sound from day 1 to day 5. Most of the time I find they always improve in sound quality within that break in period. and no its not my ears getting used to it to the sound, I have brought multiple pairs of the same exact headset for myself and wifey and they both sound the same when new, but mine always  sound better a couple of days later due to me using them much more than wifey, after some more use wifes headset catches up to mine in sound quality and sounds as good as mine.

I cancelled my order for the anbes, I have some sennheiser on the way to me, and wanted to focus on those to compare with my other true wireless.


----------



## voicemaster

Just got my galaxy buds yesterday and have been using it for about 5 hours so far. At first, the treble is kind of piercing which is normal for Dynamic Driver. After about 2-3 hours of music playing, the treble has settled to non piercing at all. Also, it is noticeable if you turn on the EQ option on the app. I am using the "clear" setting as I find it pretty balance. Without EQ, it sounds kinda similar to QCY T1 (I have 2 of these which I love). Connection is good, ambiance mode is pretty much useless (wish its ambiance mode is like my Sony MDR1000X). Call quality is fine, but I only used it in my bedroom so not much noise going on.


----------



## howdy

Talk to sennheiser and they said that the new update is for iOS only and that Android would be in the "future" wonder how long that woukd be.


----------



## clerkpalmer

howdy said:


> Talk to sennheiser and they said that the new update is for iOS only and that Android would be in the "future" wonder how long that woukd be.



That's amusing since mine won't update on Ios.  I guess I need to call them.


----------



## howdy (Mar 20, 2019)

clerkpalmer said:


> That's amusing since mine won't update on Ios.  I guess I need to call them.


I'm going to try right now with my ipod touch.

Well, Sennheiser Apps Suck!
It took 10 times to connect to ipod and now literally playing music and it won't connect to the App after manually trying at least 50 times.


----------



## mikp

Found another set that should have qcc5100 series, libratone


----------



## webvan

mikp said:


> Found another set that should have qcc5100 series, libratone


Nice find with a lot of details on the ANC and they've tried a pre-version, here are some bits and pieces : 

Active noise reduction, four levels adjustable, up to 30dB noise reduction
Libratone CEO Liu Wei told Geek Park that in the low frequency region (the main noise reduction area of the active noise canceling headphones), TRACK Air+'s active noise reduction can be reduced by 25dB, plus the passive sound insulation effect brought by the in-ear design (can be reduced by 5 6 dB), a total of 30dB of noise reduction can be achieved.
When the active noise reduction function is turned on, it is obvious that the surrounding is suddenly "quiet". This is the first time we have experienced this feeling on a true wireless headset, which is far stronger than the previous Sony's launch of the noise reduction label. WF-1000X (noise reduction beans). However, since it is not the official version, and there is not much low frequency noise around the experience, we can't give specific judgment on the noise reduction performance of Libratone TRACK Air+.
I'm surprised that it's only rated at 5 hours though ? Battery size or the cost of the ANC ? 5 hours is still quite decent and better than most current models, except the Realtek based models like the X12 Pro.

The good news is that they will apparently be available in mid-april in China at a price equivalent to €222.


----------



## Bob24 (Mar 20, 2019)

webvan said:


> Nice find with a lot of details on the ANC and they've tried a pre-version, here are some bits and pieces :
> 
> Active noise reduction, four levels adjustable, up to 30dB noise reduction
> Libratone CEO Liu Wei told Geek Park that in the low frequency region (the main noise reduction area of the active noise canceling headphones), TRACK Air+'s active noise reduction can be reduced by 25dB, plus the passive sound insulation effect brought by the in-ear design (can be reduced by 5 6 dB), a total of 30dB of noise reduction can be achieved.
> ...



These could tick quite a few boxes for me. Strange I can’t find anything about them in English though ... I admit I am confused, are we talking about the actual Libratone brand some some knock offs?


----------



## david8613 (Mar 20, 2019)

Got my sennheiser mtw today. The buds are huge compared to my galaxy buds. The included ear tips did not work for me, and it sounded terrible. Bass was nothing, treble was horrible, volume was also very low. they actually sounded like a very cheap set of ear buds. So I went into my trusty bag of extra ear tips and found a pair that helped me get that all important seal, and voila treble cleaned up, bass kicked in nice and thick, volume went up too. Still testing and messing with EQ that looks cool but its wierd. Anyone like to share pics of there eq settings? I was listen to dj miss monique on you tube, and it sounded great, but when I was listening to post malone on spotify and it did not sound too good. Control work great for me! I guess I got lucky. Case is very nice too, I like the cloth covering less slippery than galaxy buds and jabra cases. Very light too, in pics it looks way big and heavy, its not.


----------



## Cosmosan

Another set with the QCC5100:
https://cleeraudio.com/product/ally-plus/


----------



## sly_in_the_sky (Mar 21, 2019)

Hello guys, I love TW and don’t see myself going back to wired setup for on the go music but I found this on a Head-fi group on Facebook:

https://au.news.yahoo.com/wireless-headphones-like-apple-airpods-pose-cancer-risk-052504674.html

https://www.radiationhealthrisks.com/bluetooth-technology-radiation/

Thinking that BT bad frequencies going directly in the head is something that beginns to worry me... Because I listen to TW several ours per day... immagine the effect after years... We already know that taking a call and speaking in a phone is not better but when you do, you don’t expose yourself staying 4 hours per day, 7 days per week like some of us do while listening to music with TW...

What do you think about that?

Is it the cable lobbys that are trying to strike?....


----------



## mikp (Mar 21, 2019)

webvan said:


> Nice find with a lot of details on the ANC and they've tried a pre-version, here are some bits and pieces :
> 
> Active noise reduction, four levels adjustable, up to 30dB noise reduction
> Libratone CEO Liu Wei told Geek Park that in the low frequency region (the main noise reduction area of the active noise canceling headphones), TRACK Air+'s active noise reduction can be reduced by 25dB, plus the passive sound insulation effect brought by the in-ear design (can be reduced by 5 6 dB), a total of 30dB of noise reduction can be achieved.
> ...



It was the only article with some info I could find on the 5100. Strange since its over a year since it was "launched" by qualcomm. I have seen 9 hours quoted, with 40% less with anc on in another article I cant find now.
So the 5 hours have to be with anc on, else the battery life will be very short.

Also they have removed the stereo plus+ feature, but have not seen any evidence that the feature is working. The phone manufacturer has to implement a qualcomm code that is not released to make it work.
Also no mention of apt-x hd


----------



## Slater (Mar 21, 2019)

sly_in_the_sky said:


> Hello guys, I love TW and don’t see myself going back to wired setup for on the go music but I found this on a Head-fi group on Facebook:
> 
> https://au.news.yahoo.com/wireless-headphones-like-apple-airpods-pose-cancer-risk-052504674.html
> 
> ...



This is nothing new.

They’ve been reporting this since WiFi 1st came out decades ago, and then again when Bluetooth came out (both 2.4Ghz; the exact same frequency as a microwave oven). And when pagers came out. Then cell phones. Then smart phones. Now 5G is the big ooga booga boogeyman.

The point is that we as a civilization are bombarded with EM radiation every day. Whether it’s your Bluetooth buds, WiFi in Starbucks, the Bluetooth in your car, the cell phone towers covering every square mile, RFID scanners in every store and elsewhere, AM/FM radio stations, TV stations, dental X-rays, CT scans, satellite TV, GPS, solar radiation, your Apple watch, Alexa/Echo speakers, wireless video cameras, wireless security system, etc.

I’m not saying that none of these things aren’t bad for you; they are. But good luck trying to get away from it all. In the grand scheme of things, Bluetooth is extremely low power, and your cell phone puts out hundreds (or thousands) of times more radiation, especially when roaming.

I guess you could always walk around with a faraday cage wrapped around yourself. I’ve thought about it, believe me.


----------



## sly_in_the_sky

Slater said:


> This is nothing new.
> 
> They’ve been reporting this since WiFi 1st came out decades ago, and then again when Bluetooth came out (both 2.4Ghz; the exact same frequency as a microwave oven). And when pagers came out. Then cell phones. Then smart phones. Now 5G is the big ooga booga boogeyman.
> 
> ...



Thank you. Of course I know all of that but what stress me a little bit more is the direct radiations in the ears (head) for several hours...and almost everyday...  Even if the power is less than phones, wify and so on, it’s direct and exposition is for hours. But it’s surely psychologic.


----------



## Slater (Mar 21, 2019)

sly_in_the_sky said:


> Thank you. Of course I know all of that but what stress me a little bit more is the direct radiations in the ears (head) for several hours...and almost everyday...  Even if the power is less than phones, wify and so on, it’s direct and exposition is for hours. But it’s surely psychologic.



I’d be more worried about the lithium battery in the buds going nuclear and catching fire while they’re in your ears.

The videos of cell phones, vape pens, and hover boards going nuclear have me much more concerned about wireless buds than the minuscule amount of microwave radiation they put out.


----------



## Bob24 (Mar 21, 2019)

Slater said:


> I’d be more worried about the lithium battery in the buds going nuclear and catching fire while they’re in your ears.



That actually happened before, and to make things worse it was on a plane: https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/woman-s-headphones-explode-during-flight-china-australia-n733836

I guess those were full sized headphones which would have a larger battery. But on the other end they are not inserted inside your ear canal - no matter how small I wouldn’t like a battery to explode almost inside my ear.


----------



## Bartig

voicemaster said:


> Just got my galaxy buds yesterday and have been using it for about 5 hours so far. At first, the treble is kind of piercing which is normal for Dynamic Driver. After about 2-3 hours of music playing, the treble has settled to non piercing at all. Also, it is noticeable if you turn on the EQ option on the app. I am using the "clear" setting as I find it pretty balance. Without EQ, it sounds kinda similar to QCY T1 (I have 2 of these which I love). Connection is good, ambiance mode is pretty much useless (wish its ambiance mode is like my Sony MDR1000X). Call quality is fine, but I only used it in my bedroom so not much noise going on.





howdy said:


> I'm going to try right now with my ipod touch.
> 
> Well, Sennheiser Apps Suck!
> It took 10 times to connect to ipod and now literally playing music and it won't connect to the App after manually trying at least 50 times.


Thank you for all those impressions. I guess I'm still reaaaally fine with my T1C.


----------



## actorlife

david8613 said:


> *I cancelled my order for the anbes*, I have some sennheiser on the way to me, and wanted to focus on those to compare with my other true wireless.


I think you should reconsider they are fantastic. If I were to compare them I'd say close to the Sivga SV007 headphones SQ which are highly regarded around here.


----------



## DannyBai

So I’ve reset the Sennheiser app. Even deleted it and reinstalled it, forget device and re-paired the earphones and the damn app still won’t update. Plus I used the earphones yesterday for not even two hours and put it back in the case and this morning it was dead. This is a huge fail from Sennheiser.


----------



## actorlife

So much trouble with those Senns. Glad I didn't have the funds to buy them. I'm so happy with my Anbes 359(spaceship), Funcl W1 and HonShoop. Too bad the Sabbat x12 does not sync together anymore. Not that the SQ was great. It was just ok. I got two other models on the way and hopefully I'm done.


----------



## ashenwreck

actorlife said:


> So much trouble with those Senns. Glad I didn't have the funds to buy them. I'm so happy with my Anbes 359(spaceship), Funcl W1 and HonShoop. Too bad the Sabbat x12 does not sync together anymore. Not that the SQ was great. It was just ok. I got two other models on the way and hopefully I'm done.


On the Sabbat's, I assume you've done a reset on them? I had a hell of a time to get them to connect initially. I held the buttons for quite a while, until I got some lights blinking. Then pulled out only the left to sync with my device before pairing the two earbuds together. Pulling them both out, having them sync together first, and then connecting to my phone wouldn't work for whatever reason.


----------



## actorlife

ashenwreck said:


> On the Sabbat's, I assume you've done a reset on them? I had a hell of a time to get them to connect initially. I held the buttons for quite a while, until I got some lights blinking. Then pulled out only the left to sync with my device before pairing the two earbuds together. Pulling them both out, having them sync together first, and then connecting to my phone wouldn't work for whatever reason.


I have tried just about everything and they won't sync at all. I tried to find a way to get a warranty replacement but have not found any info to send them to. I bought them used on ebay and they were good for a week and now nada.


----------



## willryan042

DannyBai said:


> So I’ve reset the Sennheiser app. Even deleted it and reinstalled it, forget device and re-paired the earphones and the damn app still won’t update. Plus I used the earphones yesterday for not even two hours and put it back in the case and this morning it was dead. This is a huge fail from Sennheiser.



That's really strange, I had zero issues updating on the day the FW was released. I saw the update for the app in the app store, updated it, then I was prompted for the FW update right when I opened the app.

Using an iPhone XS on iOS 12 if it matters.


----------



## controlmajortom

So after having one earphone fall out of my ears in the pouring rain and spending 10 minutes trying to find it (thank god it didn't break), I finally caved and bought comply tips for my Sennheiser Momentum True wireless.

Best decision ever. They have completely changed the fit and the sound is also much better. The seal that I'm getting with the comply's are infinitely better than the awful stock tips. Would recommend anyone else dealing with fit issues to also get the complys.


----------



## howdy

DannyBai said:


> So I’ve reset the Sennheiser app. Even deleted it and reinstalled it, forget device and re-paired the earphones and the damn app still won’t update. Plus I used the earphones yesterday for not even two hours and put it back in the case and this morning it was dead. This is a huge fail from Sennheiser.


You're using it with Apple? Its not available for Android yet, only Apple for now.


----------



## DannyBai

willryan042 said:


> That's really strange, I had zero issues updating on the day the FW was released. I saw the update for the app in the app store, updated it, then I was prompted for the FW update right when I opened the app.
> 
> Using an iPhone XS on iOS 12 if it matters.


Unless I’m doing something wrong. I’m on latest iOS 12 and using iPhone X. I just open the app and tap on firmware and it says it’s current


----------



## david8613

I might get the anbes later, I am trying to focus on these messing with these sennheiser mtw, pretty good but the Samsung give them a very good go sound wise, I am still playing with ear tips and eq.


----------



## Slater

DannyBai said:


> Unless I’m doing something wrong. I’m on latest iOS 12 and using iPhone X. I just open the app and tap on firmware and it says it’s current



Is it possible the firmware *is* current?


----------



## DannyBai

Slater said:


> Is it possible the firmware *is* current?


It says 1.23 and I’ve read it’s 1.25.


----------



## assassin10000

FYI. Anyone thinking about the Sabbat X12 Pro in the U.S., amazon has a deal for $32 after an $8 coupon. Cheaper than the AE sales prices.

https://www.amazon.com/Sabbat-Bluetooth-Headphones-Waterproof-Earphones/dp/B07P5KSXFH/


----------



## voicemaster

sly_in_the_sky said:


> Thank you. Of course I know all of that but what stress me a little bit more is the direct radiations in the ears (head) for several hours...and almost everyday...  Even if the power is less than phones, wify and so on, it’s direct and exposition is for hours. But it’s surely psychologic.



Gotta use this if you want to be safe.


----------



## voicemaster

Bartig said:


> Thank you for all those impressions. I guess I'm still reaaaally fine with my T1C.



QCY T1C is absolutely awesome. I used them on my 13 hours flight and it did a magnificent job of blocking outside noise. It blocks noise even better than my ZS7 impressively. Call quality on it is also not bad, but like most TWIEM, it uses an omni directional microphone, so the other end on the phone will hear every noise surrounding you.


----------



## Slater

voicemaster said:


> Gotta use this if you want to be safe



This is what I use to stop the voices in my head from the alien transmissions:

 

Joking aside, there are real effects of microwaves on humans. And 2.4Ghz (WiFi abs Bluetooth) is smack dab at the microwave frequency.

https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy...y-have-microwaved-us-embassies-in-cuba-china/

https://www.veteranstoday.com/2018/...nger-conspiracy-theory-now-deployed-in-china/


----------



## Bob24

Pretty negative review of the Samsung Galaxy Buds from What Hifi here: https://www.whathifi.com/reviews/samsung-galaxy-buds

To summarise the review with one quote: “The Galaxy Buds sound more or less equivalent to a pair of cheap in-ears - and not even a particularly good pair”.


----------



## Bartig

Bob24 said:


> Pretty negative review of the Samsung Galaxy Buds from What Hifi here: https://www.whathifi.com/reviews/samsung-galaxy-buds
> 
> To summarise the review with one quote: “The Galaxy Buds sound more or less equivalent to a pair of cheap in-ears - and not even a particularly good pair”.


Ouch, that is a painful quote from a source still awarding the Bowers and Wilkins P5 Series II wireless for a creeping 200 pounds five stars.


----------



## LajostheHun

Aeneas said:


> I saw this thread a few weeks ago while I was weighing up whether to buy Beoplay E8 2.0.
> 
> I’ve owned several wireless earbuds now, so here are a few thoughts. Unfortunately I haven’t really compared any side-by-side, so this is from memory.
> 
> ...


what about phone calls? more precisely your outgoing voice, how's it perceived on the other end?


----------



## LajostheHun

clerkpalmer said:


> My understanding is that aac over iPhone requires no additional encoding making it superior to aac over android. Again I may be mistaken but I believe this is why aac is considered comparable to aptx despite the lower bitrate. Someone more knowledgeable than me can confirm or confirm I’m completely wrong.


If the files being listened on the iPhone is AAC than your're right however once the file is other than AAC than you get the same transscoding as on Android.


----------



## LajostheHun

actorlife said:


> Get these. The reviews on there are spot on: Wireless Earbuds, Anbes 359 Bluetooth 5.0 True Wireless Earbuds 24H Playtime Deep Bass HD Sound Headphones Noise Cancelling, in-Ear Headset with Built-in Mic Hands-Free Calls https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07M8LWN2G/ref=cm_sw_r_sms_apa_i_AOVJCb3ENW0AW


So have you tested them for phone calls yet? I already ordered them but experiences are always welcome beforehand, thanks.


----------



## david8613

I am still playing with the senheisser mtw, and they are very good, I tried all different types of tips I have, complys, sony tips, other cheap tips and the best I have used with mtw for my ears are the spin fits. It almost feels like I have full size headphones on my head! Reminds me of my vmoda cross fades codex I had. Very strong bass sig.


----------



## clerkpalmer

david8613 said:


> I am still playing with the senheisser mtw, and they are very good, I tried all different types of tips I have, complys, sony tips, other cheap tips and the best I have used with mtw for my ears are the spin fits. It almost feels like I have full size headphones on my head! Reminds me of my vmoda cross fades codex I had. Very strong bass sig.


Maybe I’ll give them a run. What size core? Thanks.


----------



## howdy

david8613 said:


> I am still playing with the senheisser mtw, and they are very good, I tried all different types of tips I have, complys, sony tips, other cheap tips and the best I have used with mtw for my ears are the spin fits. It almost feels like I have full size headphones on my head! Reminds me of my vmoda cross fades codex I had. Very strong bass sig.


I got lucky and the stock large tips fit me perfectly. The bass on some songs make my ears tickle. I absolutely love the sound of my Senns regardless of there Shi%%y app.


----------



## actorlife (Mar 21, 2019)

LajostheHun said:


> So have you tested them for phone calls yet? I already ordered them but experiences are always welcome beforehand, thanks.


I'll let you know tonight/tomm afternoon for sure. *Edit* My friend said he heard me perfectly. I was in a quiet place and heard him perfectly. I tell you these are my favorite wireless buds(Anbes 359).


----------



## LajostheHun

actorlife said:


> I'll let you know tonight/tomm afternoon for sure. *Edit* My friend said he heard me perfectly. I was in a quiet place and heard him perfectly. I tell you these are my favorite wireless buds(Anbes 359).



Thanks I'm hoping it does ok when I'm driving too, which can be bit noisy. Currently I have the Anker  Soundforce Liberty Air
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07HSYJWMR/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o02_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
 which is quiet a bit more expensive. It has AAC and sounds pretty good, but it's phone call performance is less then stellar mostly for  the people on the other end. If this Anbes could match or even out perform the Anker I would send that back to Amazon. The Anbes will be here tomorrow.


----------



## DigDub (Mar 22, 2019)

The Nuarl nt01ax does seem to improve with burn-in. The sound now is more open with better highs and bass. The sound stage is more front/back, not so much left/right, which gives a intimate presentation rather than a large room feel. Timbre is natural with good decay in highs and mids. Bass is tight and fast, but doesn't have the energy/slam like the qcy t1c.


----------



## david8613

I am using these in size large. I am telling you it really feels like I have full size cans on my ears! I never was crazy about compy tips for some reason, I like silicone tips they seal and work better in my ears.
https://spinfiteartip.com/en/product-detail/48


----------



## RobinFood

DigDub said:


> The Nuarl nt01ax does seem to improve with burn-in. The sound now is more open with better highs and bass. The sound stage is more front/back, not so much left/right, which gives a intimate presentation rather than a large room feel. Timbre is natural with good decay in highs and mids. Bass is tight and fast, but doesn't have the energy/slam like the qcy t1c.



Is the T1C as natural sounding in the mids as the Nuarl? I was super impressed with the realism the Nuarl had for instrumental music like Disney soundtracks or acoustic sets when I had them. Does the T1C achieve that level of realism?


----------



## DigDub

RobinFood said:


> Is the T1C as natural sounding in the mids as the Nuarl? I was super impressed with the realism the Nuarl had for instrumental music like Disney soundtracks or acoustic sets when I had them. Does the T1C achieve that level of realism?



The t1c's strength is it's energetic bass without mucking the mids and highs, and it's headphone-like presentation. T1c mids are ok, the highs are not as well defined as the Nuarl. The Nuarl presents highs such as hi hats and cymbals with very natural timbre and sounds very realistic, while the T1c presents them more of a swish and is less defined than the Nuarl. T1c is a lot of fun to listen to, while the Nuarl is probably flatter with a warm mid bass.


----------



## david8613

I am telling you guys these momentum true wireless really do feel like a set of full size of cans, even in low volume, its crazy!!!


----------



## Bob24

david8613 said:


> I am telling you guys these momentum true wireless really do feel like a set of full size of cans, even in low volume, its crazy!!!



Just ordered a pair as the price dropped a bit on Amazon UK. Hopeffully I will feel the same


----------



## RobinFood

DigDub said:


> The t1c's strength is it's energetic bass without mucking the mids and highs, and it's headphone-like presentation. T1c mids are ok, the highs are not as well defined as the Nuarl. The Nuarl presents highs such as hi hats and cymbals with very natural timbre and sounds very realistic, while the T1c presents them more of a swish and is less defined than the Nuarl. T1c is a lot of fun to listen to, while the Nuarl is probably flatter with a warm mid bass.



Ah, alright, thanks for the details. I guess I'll keep saving my coins, I strongly suspect I wouldn't use them. I love my highs, and I loved the Nuarl timbre.
Does your Nuarl hiss and beep, too? I returned it because of that, especially when watching TV shows with a lot of quiet time.


----------



## DigDub

RobinFood said:


> Ah, alright, thanks for the details. I guess I'll keep saving my coins, I strongly suspect I wouldn't use them. I love my highs, and I loved the Nuarl timbre.
> Does your Nuarl hiss and beep, too? I returned it because of that, especially when watching TV shows with a lot of quiet time.


Mine doesn't hiss during quiet passages, at least not when I'm listening to classical music.


----------



## actorlife (Mar 22, 2019)

Cool LajostheHun I hope you like them. Call quality surprised me. Hope you do mini review when you get them.


----------



## webvan (Mar 22, 2019)

Here are some new RTings TWE reviews :
BeoPlay E8 v2 : https://www.rtings.com/headphones/reviews/b-o-play/beoplay-e8-2-0 - they did find differences with v1 !
RHA TrueConnect : https://www.rtings.com/headphones/reviews/rha/trueconnect#comparison_2088
They were not terribly impressed by either device...

You can vote for the next devices to be tested here https://www.rtings.com/headphones/suggestions - including the MW07


----------



## DannyBai

I ended up backing the Model X from Adv-Sound. I have two of their BT dongles that I really like so I believe their TWE's will be good and with nice sound. I really like the Senn's but wish the app would actually work and the battery lasted longer. Would be nice if the unit actually powered off in the case also. I backed the crazybaby air awhile ago and those were complete junk. No connection when outdoors.


----------



## urii (Mar 22, 2019)

Apple iPod 6 (Эквалайзер+ Премиум) + VentureCraft Vantam Jazz Master Limited + передатчик CSR8675 BT 5.0 aptX-HD + Sabbat X12 Pro + Garmin Vivosmart HD


----------



## clerkpalmer

urii said:


> Apple iPod 6 (Equalizer+ Premium) + VentureCraft Vantam Jazz Master Limited + передатчик CSR8675 BT 5.0 aptX-HD + Sabbat X12 Pro + Garmin Vivosmart HD



What does the BT transmitter do that the iPhone 6 can't do?  Edit, does it effectively connect to the iPhone wired and then improve BT from AAC to AptxHD?


----------



## urii (Mar 22, 2019)

The quality of sounding is anyway higher. In this case the transmitter for Sabbat X12 uses AAC. In this case iPod 6 is not connected to the transmitter. iPod 6 through a cable is connected to Vantam.
iPod 6 -> Vantam -> Transmitter -> Sabbat X12Pro.


----------



## albau (Mar 22, 2019)

Are SoundPeats TrueFree same as QCY T1/Q1? For sure they look same. Just asking because RTings have review of them. Sorry if it's all old news.


----------



## mindy123

david8613 said:


> I am telling you guys these momentum true wireless really do feel like a set of full size of cans, even in low volume, its crazy!!!



are they worth the extra over your jabra elite actives? I'm looking for them for mainly my gym sessions/commutes


----------



## hifi80sman

mindy123 said:


> are they worth the extra over your jabra elite actives? I'm looking for them for mainly my gym sessions/commutes


For SQ, yes.  I found the 65t bland and uninspiring.  The MTW will give you that extra rep, bruh.


----------



## clerkpalmer

hifi80sman said:


> For SQ, yes.  I found the 65t bland and uninspiring.  The MTW will give you that extra rep, bruh.



Agreed and when maxing out on bench, use MW07 for an extra 5 pounds.


----------



## mindy123

hifi80sman said:


> For SQ, yes.  I found the 65t bland and uninspiring.  The MTW will give you that extra rep, bruh.



Thanks for the reply. Thats good to know! Would you use the MTW in the gym/running too? I can't really afford two separate sets so I need something that sounds good and I can use in the gym


----------



## hifi80sman

Bob24 said:


> Pretty negative review of the Samsung Galaxy Buds from What Hifi here: https://www.whathifi.com/reviews/samsung-galaxy-buds
> 
> To summarise the review with one quote: “The Galaxy Buds sound more or less equivalent to a pair of cheap in-ears - and not even a particularly good pair”.


Not too surprised.  It's clear Samsung is targeting the "masses" and not someone looking at, say Sennheiser.  Most people I've talked to that are not into audio, have no idea who Sennehiser, B&W, M&D are, but they all know Skullcandy, Beats, and those darn AirPods.


----------



## hifi80sman

mindy123 said:


> Thanks for the reply. Thats good to know! Would you use the MTW in the gym/running too? I can't really afford two separate sets so I need something that sounds good and I can use in the gym


I use them on the treadmill, yes.  I use the large tips and they seal and fit nicely.  Every ear is different, so it's hard to say how your fit will be, however, they have a good design and seem to be compatible with most people.


----------



## Bob24

hifi80sman said:


> Not too surprised.  It's clear Samsung is targeting the "masses" and not someone looking at, say Sennheiser.  Most people I've talked to that are not into audio, have no idea who Sennehiser, B&W, M&D are, but they all know Skullcandy, Beats, and those darn AirPods.



Yes, the higher end brands you mention were always going to be in a different league, but the way I read the review, they position the Samsungs clearly below your second category as well.


----------



## mindy123

hifi80sman said:


> I use them on the treadmill, yes.  I use the large tips and they seal and fit nicely.  Every ear is different, so it's hard to say how your fit will be, however, they have a good design and seem to be compatible with most people.



i've ordered them! that 250 leaving my account hurts tho, ngl. I always look for value, especially when you come on here seeing people raving about chi-fi and what not but guess sometimes you gotta pay


----------



## hifi80sman

Bob24 said:


> Yes, the higher end brands you mention were always going to be in a different league, but the way I read the review, they position the Samsungs clearly below your second category as well.


OUCH!  LOL!  Sammy needs to step up their game.  I'm sure they can simultaneously target both the consumer and "audiophile" markets for long-term accessory channel growth, brand loyalty, etc., however, they are clearly playing the short game shooting for quarterly numbers.  Nothing is going to change until the typical consumer demands more.


----------



## hifi80sman

mindy123 said:


> i've ordered them! that 250 leaving my account hurts tho, ngl. I always look for value, especially when you come on here seeing people raving about chi-fi and what not but guess sometimes you gotta pay


Funny thing is, Audio is one of the few places where you're going to pay 10x more for diminishing returns.  Does the HD 800 S ($1,500) _*really *_sound 5x+ better than the HD 600 ($300 or less)?  What about the $55,000 Orpheus, which costs more than a Tesla Model 3? Does it *really *sound 183x+ better?  Unless you're a dog, probably not.


----------



## Slater

hifi80sman said:


> For SQ, yes.  I found the 65t bland and uninspiring.  The MTW will give you that extra rep, bruh.





clerkpalmer said:


> Agreed and when maxing out on bench, use MW07 for an extra 5 pounds.


----------



## cheesesteak

webvan said:


> Here are some new RTings TWE reviews :
> BeoPlay E8 v2 : https://www.rtings.com/headphones/reviews/b-o-play/beoplay-e8-2-0 - they did find differences with v1 !
> RHA TrueConnect : https://www.rtings.com/headphones/reviews/rha/trueconnect#comparison_2088
> They were not terribly impressed by either device...
> ...



This is weird, I’ve tested the rha and the Jabra in store and found that the latency of the Jabra was much worse than the rha. If not for the better latency of the rha, I would have gotten the Jabra as it was much cheaper.


----------



## LajostheHun

actorlife said:


> Cool LajostheHun I hope you like them. Call quality surprised me. Hope you do mini review when you get them.


yes will do.
 it was supposed to get here today but some reason it was delayed...


----------



## webvan

cheesesteak said:


> This is weird, I’ve tested the rha and the Jabra in store and found that the latency of the Jabra was much worse than the rha. If not for the better latency of the rha, I would have gotten the Jabra as it was much cheaper.


There must have been something wrong with the setup or the 65Ts because mine have very little latency and I don't remember people complaining about it here, like say for the WF1000x.


----------



## cheesesteak

webvan said:


> There must have been something wrong with the setup or the 65Ts because mine have very little latency and I don't remember people complaining about it here, like say for the WF1000x.


 
I was using an iPhone X tho. I’ve read that the latency issue was not an issue on the android phones. Now I’m tempted to get the nuarl nt01ax to try it out.


----------



## Leeco

albau said:


> Are SoundPeats TrueFree same as QCY T1/Q1? For sure they look same. Just asking because RTings have review of them. Sorry if it's all old news.


I believe so. I bought SoundPeats on Amazon at around $25 when they were on sale, with free express shipping. I like their signature so much, I am planning to buy a white version of QCY when they go on sale on AliExpress in 5 days just for backup purposes.


----------



## RobinFood

I tried the Astrotec S60 today. They have one of the smallest cases ever, use a Knowles BA, (apparently) support AAC and SBC, and have USB-C and wireless charging compatibility.

I was attracted by the BA design and also the fact that the small case is made of metal and looks like it can be stepped on...not that I intend to step on it.
It was pretty nice. The case is the size of 3 lip balm sticks taped together in a triangle. It has a nice weight to it and definitely feels indestructible. The case uses a magnet to close, and the magnet is quite strong. It is a little hard to open the case. The buds are also held down by magnets. The case feels indestructible.

The buds themselves are made of plastic and are quite light. They look like they were made to nestle in your ear conch comfortably and block off sound that way, but the buds themselves are a little too small to fill in the whole conch, and the fit is a little shallow. The eartips on the demo were also small, so it doesn't feel super stable, but I have a feeling better eartips might fix that. They have a single super-large button, and you can press it up above your earhole, so it's not bad.

I was using my M0 to test it out, but it wouldn't connect to AAC...this happens a lot, for some reason they say AAC compatible, but it only works with an Iphone, which is frustrating. It connected fine in SBC though. That being said, I am not sure if it is because it is not a dynamic driver, but the separation was good, and I couldn't hear any typical SBC graininess. The soundstage also sounded very nice.

The sound was pretty good. It has a pretty deep far-reaching bass. Very nice slam on Killshot and a good rumble. The mids were a little recessed, but they had a huge BA sound. I am a big fan of vocals rendered by a balanced armature, so I was happy to hear that. The vocals were very clear (unlike the Earmin M2), and reminded me a little of the Etymotic HF5. I tested the highs with a few songs of Adele, and couldn't hear any graininess or sound lacking. I really regret not trying out the Foo Fighter's Everlong for cymbals, but the sound reminded me so much of the HF5 that I strongly suspect that they might be rolled off.

Overall, it was a very nice sound profile. The only thing that irks me is the AAC not working with my gear, but I've had this issue with 2 or 3 other sets of TWE and was told that some only support AAC for Iphones. I really loved those detailed vocal crystal clear mids, and they really tuned it to maximize that bass response from their Balanced Armature. I feel the recessed mids does a nice job adding to the soundstage, and there was a nice amount of air between the instruments. I might have to listen again to hear those cymbals, as muted cymbals are sometimes irritating.

The case was super nice, but maybe a little too tall. I think even though bigger, the Mavin case is more pocketable because it is thinner. I do like how indestructible the case felt though, having two young children asking me to hold them, it is not uncommon for them to accidentally kick my pockets. I'd get worried with a flimsy plastic case,


----------



## Bartig

albau said:


> Are SoundPeats TrueFree same as QCY T1/Q1? For sure they look same. Just asking because RTings have review of them. Sorry if it's all old news.


It does read as if the tuning is different. I don't find the QCY to sound harsh or sibilant at all!


----------



## Bartig

cheesesteak said:


> This is weird, I’ve tested the rha and the Jabra in store and found that the latency of the Jabra was much worse than the rha. If not for the better latency of the rha, I would have gotten the Jabra as it was much cheaper.


Latency is so source dependent, thus so hard to test.


----------



## DigDub

Had a listen to the MTW. compared to the Nuarl nt10ax, bass guitars sounds better layered on the MTW. Where the nt10ax wins is the highs and mid highs, cymbals sounds very natural and defined without being too in-your-face.


----------



## chinmie

RobinFood said:


> I tried the Astrotec S60 today. They have one of the smallest cases ever, use a Knowles BA, (apparently) support AAC and SBC, and have USB-C and wireless charging compatibility.
> 
> I was attracted by the BA design and also the fact that the small case is made of metal and looks like it can be stepped on...not that I intend to step on it.
> It was pretty nice. The case is the size of 3 lip balm sticks taped together in a triangle. It has a nice weight to it and definitely feels indestructible. The case uses a magnet to close, and the magnet is quite strong. It is a little hard to open the case. The buds are also held down by magnets. The case feels indestructible.
> ...



how long the battery last per charge?


----------



## voicemaster

hifi80sman said:


> Not too surprised.  It's clear Samsung is targeting the "masses" and not someone looking at, say Sennheiser.  Most people I've talked to that are not into audio, have no idea who Sennehiser, B&W, M&D are, but they all know Skullcandy, Beats, and those darn AirPods.



Their target is the Apple Airpods and you know it isn't hard to beat airpods SQ lol. But, I have galaxy buds and I say it sounds pretty good. It has enough detail and clarity, bass that is tight and not muddy unless you put on "bass boost" setting. For portable usage, I think the galaxy buds does a wonderful job and I am not going to do critical listening on a subway or bus.


----------



## 40760

Gotten the Creative Outlier Air yesterday. My wife seems to be enjoying them quite a bit.

Compared to the NT01AX, these fit way easier and isolation is top notch. I dare say CIEM level of comfort to my ears.
I'm quite surprised because they only included 2 pair of proprietary tips, and they are of the same size. So if they don't work with your ears out of the box, you're most likely out of luck.

Signature wise the NT01AX is still clearer and more natural sounding. Bass quality is also better. Not to say that the Outlier Airs are lacklustre, but they're more tuned for the general sound, with more emphasis on lows. I can see how this is more appealing if you're using them when out and about or while working out. These also have a higher IPX rating, and that excellent fit makes them ideal for those with an active lifestyle.

At about S$119 or US$88 before discount, the Outlier Airs are an easy recommend.


----------



## assassin10000

Got the Sabbat X12 Pro's in earlier today. I'm pretty happy with them so far. They fit well.

The slip on covers with wings that come with them do not fit in the charging case. Not an issue for me, as I don't use/need them.

I find the sound decent. High's are a bit rolled off and sub-bass is a hair lacking but I find this is normal for earbuds. The case is smaller than I was expecting, and the charging port/battery capacity LED's are on the 'back' of the case vs the 'front' where it opens.


I threw a quarter in the photo's for size reference (24mm or 15/16" approximate diameter).


 

 


Tip: Comfort and bass response are improved by slipping some earbud foams over them.


----------



## RobinFood (Mar 24, 2019)

chinmie said:


> how long the battery last per charge?



Not that long...4 hours use, and 2 extra charges in the tiny case for a total of 12 hours. I guess it makes the wireless charging qi option interesting, get home and drop it on the charging pad.

I just got the Sabbat X12 pro today from Amazon. They were having a sale, it was the USB-C model for around 50$, which is 35$ less than the regular Amazon price.

So far it connects easily, has no hiss, and is very comfortable. The AAC off my Shanling M0 doesn't work with it, I guess it's SBC or die...

I am used to earbuds and sound leaking, but I feel like they leak a lot more than the typical earbuds! Gonna wake the kids!

So far, I am not too thrilled by the SQ. Lighter bass than I was expecting, mids are emphasized, and OK highs, but not great. Nice earbud soundstage, good separation, but not overly detailed. At least there is no lag. I think I will keep them connected to my phone for movies, videos, and audiobooks, but I don't think I will be "enjoying" any music on them. I will give them time to burn in, see if it improves the sound. I tried foams, but found they didn't add much bass, just muted the sound more and worsened the fit.

Not bad, and very usable, but for the moment I don't see them replacing my current set up for music (ES100 with MK2 / ER4XR)

Overall, a pretty good value that I hope will make me stop wanting to buy stuff until the better sets come out this summer.


----------



## RobinFood

assassin10000 said:


> Got the Sabbat X12 Pro's in earlier today. I'm pretty happy with them so far. They fit well.
> 
> The slip on covers with wings that come with them do not fit in the charging case. Not an issue for me, as I don't use/need them.
> 
> ...



Haha, I got the exact same one today!

I was a little disappointing with the sound at first, but I think it is burning in nicely. I swear the bass is getting punchier. Maybe it is because I took off the max volume from the bud that it defaults in too? Who knows with these wireless earbuds...

What foams are you using? I tried thick foams because the lack of slam was bothering me at first but the fit wasn't great and it had a hard time fitting in the case, and worst, it didn't really improve the bass.


----------



## srinivasvignesh

RobinFood said:


> Not that long...4 hours use, and 2 extra charges in the tiny case for a total of 12 hours. I guess it makes the wireless charging qi option interesting, get home and drop it on the charging pad.
> 
> I just got the Sabbat X12 pro today from Amazon. They were having a sale, it was the USB-C model for around 50$, which is 35$ less than the regular Amazon price.
> 
> ...



Sabbat X12 Pro connects to my Note 8 using the AAC codec, not SBC.


----------



## DigDub

And the Samsung Galaxy buds are in. Next to the qcy t1c.


----------



## dweaver

palestofwhite said:


> Gotten the Creative Outlier Air yesterday. My wife seems to be enjoying them quite a bit.
> 
> Compared to the NT01AX, these fit way easier and isolation is top notch. I dare say CIEM level of comfort to my ears.
> I'm quite surprised because they only included 2 pair of proprietary tips, and they are of the same size. So if they don't work with your ears out of the box, you're most likely out of luck.
> ...


So the unusual mini tip works well? These are intriguing. How did you get them already, the site says they are pre order for April 26? Unfortunately they dont ship to Canada, so I will have to wait for them to become available here.


----------



## Bob24 (Mar 24, 2019)

voicemaster said:


> Their target is the Apple Airpods and you know it isn't hard to beat airpods SQ lol.



Both with the write-up of the review and the final score, What Hi-Fi clearly puts the Galaxy Buds below the AirPods though.

The AirPods get 3 stars and they say “this is the sort of sound you’d expect from an average pair of affordable earphones”; while the Galaxy Budss get 2 stars and “sound more or less equivalent to a pair of cheap in-ears - and not even a particularly good pair”.

Of course I’m not taking what they said as absolute truth and I’ll wait for other reviews, but at least from that one professional reviewing source I would buy AirPods and not Galaxy Buds.


----------



## DigDub

The what-hifi reviewer definitely did not have a good seal with his ear and the buds, which results in the typical thinness sound quality when an optimal seal is not achieved. Most other reviews have praised the Galaxy buds to have pretty good sound quality. I find them to have adequate bass, definitely not a bass monster, but certainly not thin sounding. It sounds pretty good, balanced sound. The treble very occasionally borders on sibilance, else there is probably very little to fault on the sound quality.


----------



## assassin10000 (Mar 24, 2019)

RobinFood said:


> Haha, I got the exact same one today!
> 
> I was a little disappointing with the sound at first, but I think it is burning in nicely. I swear the bass is getting punchier. Maybe it is because I took off the max volume from the bud that it defaults in too? Who knows with these wireless earbuds...
> 
> What foams are you using? I tried thick foams because the lack of slam was bothering me at first but the fit wasn't great and it had a hard time fitting in the case, and worst, it didn't really improve the bass.



I have thin and thicker Aliexpress foams. I ended up using the thicker ones as they are more comfortable to me. They fit the case pretty nice, makes it a snug fit. So no chance of rattling around in the case.

Here's closeup pics of the two taken from AE.

'thicker'






'thinner'







I have some small (3-5mm) leather punches on order to make holes in my earbud foams, once those come in I'll be putting a hole at the nozzle output so it doesn't affect the sound but still provides a better seal.


----------



## clerkpalmer

palestofwhite said:


> Gotten the Creative Outlier Air yesterday. My wife seems to be enjoying them quite a bit.
> 
> Compared to the NT01AX, these fit way easier and isolation is top notch. I dare say CIEM level of comfort to my ears.
> I'm quite surprised because they only included 2 pair of proprietary tips, and they are of the same size. So if they don't work with your ears out of the box, you're most likely out of luck.
> ...



A few days ago these were available from early April and now it's April 26!  Major fail.


----------



## chinmie

RobinFood said:


> Not that long...4 hours use, and 2 extra charges in the tiny case for a total of 12 hours. I guess it makes the wireless charging qi option interesting, get home and drop it on the charging pad.
> 
> I just got the Sabbat X12 pro today from Amazon. They were having a sale, it was the USB-C model for around 50$, which is 35$ less than the regular Amazon price.
> 
> ...



either you live in a very serene place, or you are really pumping the volume to the music 

i haven't have a single complain from my wife and kid when listening the X12 at night, so i think I'm still in the clear

yes,, the X12 is more of a swiss army-everyday uses earbud, it may not be particularly great in certain areas, but overall it's been a worry-free kind of device. don't buy the E12 though, that thing is nothing but trouble for me.


----------



## thrgk

Do the Galaxy buds fit better for people with small ears? I'm worried the Sabbat S12 pro or the Anbes 359 might be too large and just fall out. And I need a good mic.

Right now I'm just using my s8 and nuforce edc so not much lower I can go in SQ lol.


----------



## assassin10000 (Mar 24, 2019)

thrgk said:


> Do the Galaxy buds fit better for people with small ears? I'm worried the Sabbat S12 pro or the Anbes 359 might be too large and just fall out. And I need a good mic.
> 
> Right now I'm just using my s8 and nuforce edc so not much lower I can go in SQ lol.



I've got smaller ears and the X12 Pro fits well. My old SE 215's were even a hair too big for my small ears and that shape is known to be one of the more comfortable iem designs. It put pressure on the antihelix of my ear.


----------



## RobinFood

srinivasvignesh said:


> Sabbat X12 Pro connects to my Note 8 using the AAC codec, not SBC.



I was afraid of that a little. The demo unit I tried at the store worked perfectly with AAC, but the color was different. It's not to say the demo unit was without problems though, the voice prompt was Chinese instead of English, and I couldn't get both ears to work at the same time in stereo on the demo unit at the store. Still, is AAC working on my DAP worth the extra 35$ and the hassle of returning another box? I don't think so for its SQ. The reviews on the store website seems to reflect what I thought when I listened to them.

By the way, the Sabbat X12 Pro I got was from the Amazon reseller OKCSC and didn't really say it was a Sabbat X12 Pro in the description, but the box and documentation all had it written down...


----------



## actorlife

thrgk said:


> Do the Galaxy buds fit better for people with small ears? I'm worried the Sabbat S12 pro or the Anbes 359 might be too large and just fall out. And I need a good mic.
> 
> Right now I'm just using my s8 and nuforce edc so not much lower I can go in SQ lol.


Get the anbes 359 never fell out of my ears. I use medium tips. My Sabbat X12 does not work on the right side and thus I can't recommend it.


----------



## chinmie

RobinFood said:


> the voice prompt was Chinese instead of English



someone here pointed out to press one of the buttons 5 times. it will toggle between english and chinese. I've tried it on my unit and it works


----------



## voicemaster

Bob24 said:


> Both with the write-up of the review and the final score, What Hi-Fi clearly puts the Galaxy Buds below the AirPods though.
> 
> The AirPods get 3 stars and they say “this is the sort of sound you’d expect from an average pair of affordable earphones”; while the Galaxy Budss get 2 stars and “sound more or less equivalent to a pair of cheap in-ears - and not even a particularly good pair”.
> 
> Of course I’m not taking what they said as absolute truth and I’ll wait for other reviews, but at least from that one professional reviewing source I would buy AirPods and not Galaxy Buds.



My ears can fit so many iems but airpods (wireless and wired) is not one of them. They can only stay put like 5 min and start to lose the seal and end up just hanging on my ear. I don't know about cheap in-ear, but my $14 KZ zsn poops all over airpods.


----------



## Slater (Mar 24, 2019)

voicemaster said:


> My ears can fit so many iems but airpods (wireless and wired) is not one of them. They can only stay put like 5 min and start to lose the seal and end up just hanging on my ear. I don't know about cheap in-ear, but my $14 KZ zsn ****s all over airpods.



Problem solved:

https://s.click.aliexpress.com/e/cH8jI02M
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/the...our-iem-mods-here.867486/page-3#post-14782933

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/the...our-iem-mods-here.867486/page-3#post-14759206


----------



## srinivasvignesh

RobinFood said:


> I was afraid of that a little. The demo unit I tried at the store worked perfectly with AAC, but the color was different. It's not to say the demo unit was without problems though, the voice prompt was Chinese instead of English, and I couldn't get both ears to work at the same time in stereo on the demo unit at the store. Still, is AAC working on my DAP worth the extra 35$ and the hassle of returning another box? I don't think so for its SQ. The reviews on the store website seems to reflect what I thought when I listened to them.
> 
> By the way, the Sabbat X12 Pro I got was from the Amazon reseller OKCSC and didn't really say it was a Sabbat X12 Pro in the description, but the box and documentation all had it written down...



Sorry if I was not clear. I meant to say that it defaults to AAC. With developer options, I can switch it to SBC just fine, if needed.


----------



## DigDub

thrgk said:


> Do the Galaxy buds fit better for people with small ears? I'm worried the Sabbat S12 pro or the Anbes 359 might be too large and just fall out. And I need a good mic.
> 
> Right now I'm just using my s8 and nuforce edc so not much lower I can go in SQ lol.


The Galaxy buds are quite small, in fact I need to use the small sized wing tips to make it larger. The mic is pretty good as well, the other side hears my voice clearly, not tinny like the qcy t1c.


----------



## keeya

We have a new contender for true wireless, though I don't have very high hopes....

https://hypebeast.com/2019/3/beats-by-dr-dre-cordless-powerbeats-release


----------



## RobinFood

keeya said:


> We have a new contender for true wireless, though I don't have very high hopes....
> 
> https://hypebeast.com/2019/3/beats-by-dr-dre-cordless-powerbeats-release



I hope the picture isn't related at the top, it's not true wireless and it looks like that Mpow bluetooth set with a beats logo slapped on...


----------



## Bob24 (Mar 25, 2019)

voicemaster said:


> My ears can fit so many iems but airpods (wireless and wired) is not one of them. They can only stay put like 5 min and start to lose the seal and end up just hanging on my ear. I don't know about cheap in-ear, but my $14 KZ zsn ****s all over airpods.



AirPods aren’t technically IEMs though and there isn’t meant to be a seal. They are regular ear buds which are mean to sit on your ears.

Makes them unsuitable to listen to music in noisy environments for me due to a complete lack of isolation, but that’s the design they chose probably to make them easier to use and more confortable for the masses and to make them better for taking done calls (IEMs aren’t great for that as you can’t ear yourself talking and can’t regulate your voice).


----------



## sly_in_the_sky (Mar 25, 2019)

In Switzerland and France we say, "never 2 without 3", so after having sold 2 sets of deffective units, I bought for the third time the Sennheiser MTW...and... Am quite pleased to see that with the new firmware, I have no bugs or case issues... for me, after having bought Elite 65T (2x), B&O E2, Earin M2 (2x), Sabbat E12, M&D MW07, I think that the MTW's are now the best option when considering sound/compfort/isolation... M&D are a little bit better in terms of sound, more natural, organics, open BUT... impossible to fit to my ears with Spinfits, Symbios and so on... so, isolation was very bad... MTW's are not far behind in term od sound but fit like gloves in my ears...Very happy now....


----------



## SummerRainbowz

Hello guys! I'm trying to get into this bluetooth IEM world, but I'm not fully decided on which one to get just yet. At first I tought about grabbing the QCY QS1, and just as I was about to pull the trigger, I've noticed that QS2 is gonna launch pretty soon. Do you guys think that I should wait for QS2 to launch or just buy the QS1 now?


----------



## Bartig

SummerRainbowz said:


> Hello guys! I'm trying to get into this bluetooth IEM world, but I'm not fully decided on which one to get just yet. At first I tought about grabbing the QCY QS1, and just as I was about to pull the trigger, I've noticed that QS2 is gonna launch pretty soon. Do you guys think that I should wait for QS2 to launch or just buy the QS1 now?


Well, nothing is known about the QS2 and the QS1 is great. So...


----------



## david8613 (Mar 25, 2019)

Bob24 said:


> Both with the write-up of the review and the final score, What Hi-Fi clearly puts the Galaxy Buds below the AirPods though.
> 
> The AirPods get 3 stars and they say “this is the sort of sound you’d expect from an average pair of affordable earphones”; while the Galaxy Budss get 2 stars and “sound more or less equivalent to a pair of cheap in-ears - and not even a particularly good pair”.
> 
> Of course I’m not taking what they said as absolute truth and I’ll wait for other reviews, but at least from that one professional reviewing source I would buy AirPods and not Galaxy Buds.




you have to try them yourself, seriously the galaxy buds have a great sound, to me the sound better the Jabra 65t actives. I read couple of bad revews, I think some reviewers must be rushing to be first out the gate with a review, maybe not getting a good seal and letting them burn in. when reviewers say the bass in not good I have to laugh, they really are good in that department, they go low, hit good. treble are nice too, mids are recessed some though but better than most. there is no way they sound cheap at all, don't trust all reviewers. oh imo they are much better than ipods. come on now, I think at this point a lot of tw buds are.


----------



## Bartig

david8613 said:


> you have to try them yourself, seriously the galaxy buds have a great sound, to me the sound better the Jabra 65t actives. I read couple of bad revews, I think some reviewers must be rushing to be first out the gate with a review, maybe not getting a good seal and letting them burn in. when reviewers say the bass in not good I have to laugh, they really are good in that department, they go low, hit good. treble are nice too, mids are recessed some though but better than most. there is no way they sound cheap at all, don't trust all reviewers. oh imo they are much better than ipods. come on now, I think at this point a lot of tw buds are.


It wouldn't be the first time there are big differences with Samsung products.


----------



## BigZ12




----------



## RobinFood

Just a quick word about the Sabbat X12 Pro. I have been using it most of the day, and have been enjoying it more and more.

I figured out what was wrong with the sound at first...the fit. The seal of the shell has to be done really well to maximize the bass response. I have to twist the shell a little and push on the top of the shell. They are really comfortable. They want to fall out when I eat stuff though. I tried different foams throughout the day, but it killed the clarity and imaging, and the comfort as well as the practicality as it became tricky to slip into the case. I am a little worried about the gunk, I used to have a one ear bluetooth piece that looked like this, and the grills became yellow and gunky in time. I might grab a silicone earpod cover at the dollar store tomorrow see if it does anything. 

As far as sound quality, they remind me of the Yincrow X6 or the RY4S UE. Great for pop, rap, and general casual music, but missing a little realism for some instruments and more critical listening. It's really easy to listen to them for hours on end with their sound and comfort. I really want to see a new version with a QCC5000 series chip that uses NC and APTX HD. That might be the perfect TWE set for me.


----------



## BigZ12 (Mar 25, 2019)

BigZ12 said:


>


Wow!
I'm so  surprised. These are fantastic at $27.
They are not expensive looking, and the charging case is a bit plasticy and a little bulky.
BUT they sound great, and the comfort is amazing (in my ears). Even with the default mounted silicon tips I get a good seal and amazing bass.
Edit: They sound a bit "narrow", so the stereo imaging and soundstage is not as good as the more expensive ones, but the mids are smooth, the highs are quite detailed (no hiss or sharp S'es like the E8 with silicon tips) and the bass is tight and punchy without being to overwhelming.
Edit 2: The BT connection is rock solid! When the E8 have dropouts several places in my apartment, I have NO dropouts with the QCY. (Thank you BT5.0)
I can confirm they support AAC and there are no SBC noise (guess they use BT between them, and not NFMI) on the left and crackle on the right (as the 10x more expensive MTW and E8 have)
I just have to say Wow again...


----------



## srinivasvignesh

RobinFood said:


> Just a quick word about the Sabbat X12 Pro. I have been using it most of the day, and have been enjoying it more and more.
> 
> I figured out what was wrong with the sound at first...the fit. The seal of the shell has to be done really well to maximize the bass response. I have to twist the shell a little and push on the top of the shell. They are really comfortable. They want to fall out when I eat stuff though. I tried different foams throughout the day, but it killed the clarity and imaging, and the comfort as well as the practicality as it became tricky to slip into the case. I am a little worried about the gunk, I used to have a one ear bluetooth piece that looked like this, and the grills became yellow and gunky in time. I might grab a silicone earpod cover at the dollar store tomorrow see if it does anything.
> 
> As far as sound quality, they remind me of the Yincrow X6 or the RY4S UE. Great for pop, rap, and general casual music, but missing a little realism for some instruments and more critical listening. It's really easy to listen to them for hours on end with their sound and comfort. I really want to see a new version with a QCC5000 series chip that uses NC and APTX HD. That might be the perfect TWE set for me.



Agreed and one more thing they are good at? Calls. The mic is one of the best I have had in a long time.


----------



## bubsdaddy

subscribed


----------



## SuperLuigi

BigZ12 said:


> Wow!
> I'm so  surprised. These are fantastic at $27.
> They are not expensive looking, and the charging case is a bit plasticy and a little bulky.
> BUT they sound great, and the comfort is amazing (in my ears). Even with the default mounted silicon tips I get a good seal and amazing bass.
> ...



Have you made any voice calls?  Curious to know how well the mic works on these.


----------



## BigZ12

SuperLuigi said:


> Have you made any voice calls?  Curious to know how well the mic works on these.


Called my mom and two friends, and all says the mic sounds great. Haven't tried outside in more noisy areas.


----------



## Bartig

BigZ12 said:


> Wow!
> I'm so  surprised. These are fantastic at $27.
> They are not expensive looking, and the charging case is a bit plasticy and a little bulky.
> BUT they sound great, and the comfort is amazing (in my ears). Even with the default mounted silicon tips I get a good seal and amazing bass.
> ...


Great it still stands against much more expensive models! I knew the QCY would be rediciously good for the money.


----------



## voicemaster

anyone tried sabbat E12?


----------



## sly_in_the_sky

voicemaster said:


> anyone tried sabbat E12?



Yes... And sorry to say that to my ears, there’s to much bass, high medium and treble is a little bit harsh and artificial.


----------



## chinmie

BigZ12 said:


> Wow!
> I'm so  surprised. These are fantastic at $27.
> They are not expensive looking, and the charging case is a bit plasticy and a little bulky.
> BUT they sound great, and the comfort is amazing (in my ears). Even with the default mounted silicon tips I get a good seal and amazing bass.
> ...



try putting some wide bore tips on them. it will increase the sound dramatically. 



voicemaster said:


> anyone tried sabbat E12?



i have, would not recommend it. you better off with the QCY T1C or T2C


----------



## TooFrank

BigZ12 said:


> It's amazing how much an eartip can change the sound and experience of an in-ear headset. I'm glad I'm such a "nerd" that I don't just use the standard included tips...
> Have tested a lot of different tips on my B&O E8 2.0.
> Comply Ts-200 Medium/Large, T-200 M/L, Symbio by MandarinEs M/L, Spinfit CP-100 M/L and Spinfit CP-100Z L. (and of course briefly tried the default silicon tips that's included)
> The best fit is the Spinfit CP-100Z L for me, very comfortable, with good seal and tight punchy bass. BUT the highs are a bit too sharp. The "s-sounds" are too sharp, especially on female vocals. Sadly
> So after intense testing  my choice fell on the Ts-200 Mediums. (The large ones pushed the buds too far out of the ear, and did not fit in the charging case). Good seal, good bass and the highs are warmer than with the Spinfits.


Good to know. I haven’t tried all the others, but have always been very happy with the Ts-200 with my 1.0


----------



## BigZ12

chinmie said:


> try putting some wide bore tips on them. it will increase the sound dramatically.


I put on my Spinfit CP100Z L. Very happy with that.


----------



## MIBUK

Apple are releasing something via their Beats brand https://9to5mac.com/2019/03/25/excl...ort-headphones/amp/?__twitter_impression=true


----------



## Slater

MIBUK said:


> Apple are releasing something via their Beats brand https://9to5mac.com/2019/03/25/excl...ort-headphones/amp/?__twitter_impression=true



I’m sure they’ll be $399 or possibly even $499 because they’re BeEtZz yO!


----------



## hifi80sman

MIBUK said:


> Apple are releasing something via their Beats brand https://9to5mac.com/2019/03/25/excl...ort-headphones/amp/?__twitter_impression=true





Slater said:


> I’m sure they’ll be $399 or possibly even $499 because they’re BeEtZz yO!


Yes, they will initially be priced WAY too high, but they know all the Apple-Beats jobbers will skip that mortgage/school tuition payment to buy them.  Later, they will be on "sale" for $299, which is the real regular price.

In related news, I did snag a pair of Beats Studio3 for $104 at Target (clearance, 70% off).  For that price, I'm actually quite happy with them.


----------



## assassin10000 (Mar 25, 2019)

RobinFood said:


> Just a quick word about the Sabbat X12 Pro. I have been using it most of the day, and have been enjoying it more and more.
> 
> I figured out what was wrong with the sound at first...the fit. The seal of the shell has to be done really well to maximize the bass response. I have to twist the shell a little and push on the top of the shell. They are really comfortable. They want to fall out when I eat stuff though. I tried different foams throughout the day, but it killed the clarity and imaging, and the comfort as well as the practicality as it became tricky to slip into the case. I am a little worried about the gunk, I used to have a one ear bluetooth piece that looked like this, and the grills became yellow and gunky in time. I might grab a silicone earpod cover at the dollar store tomorrow see if it does anything.
> 
> As far as sound quality, they remind me of the Yincrow X6 or the RY4S UE. Great for pop, rap, and general casual music, but missing a little realism for some instruments and more critical listening. It's really easy to listen to them for hours on end with their sound and comfort. I really want to see a new version with a QCC5000 series chip that uses NC and APTX HD. That might be the perfect TWE set for me.



I can't seem to leave anything well enough alone. I ended up slightly modding my X12 Pro and trimming some earbud foams for them. I've got small ears and the length of the earpod shape was long enough it pressed the main body back against my antitragus a bit more than I wanted. Not quite hard enough to be a hotspot but it was noticeable after wearing them on and off all day.

I used a flat file laid on a counter and holding the ear piece ran the opening across it, to shorten the output of the X12 Pro. I also used a flat diamond file (about 5-6mm wide) to chamfer the edges and a razor to deburr the inside lip near the screen.

On the earbud foams I used a small set of cosmetics scissors with a slight bend to enlarge/oblong the main opening to fit the X12 Pro better and to open up a hole for the output. Same idea as using the 'donut' style foams on regular earbuds, creates a seal for better bass but doesn't reduce mids/highs.


Over exposed the image to better show the earbud foam.




With or without foams they fit me better now.


----------



## Bob24 (Mar 25, 2019)

hifi80sman said:


> Yes, they will initially be priced WAY too high, but they know all the Apple-Beats jobbers will skip that mortgage/school tuition payment to buy them.  Later, they will be on "sale" for $299, which is the real regular price.



Is Beats still such a big thing? At least here in Ireland I don’t see nearly as many as when Apple purchased it.

What a shame they picked Beats btw. I wish the AirPod technology could go into a more “proper” brand’s product line.


----------



## hifi80sman

Bob24 said:


> Is Beats still such a big thing? At least here in Ireland I don’t see nearly as many as when Apple purchased it.
> 
> What a shame they picked Beats btw. I wish the AirPod technology could go into a more “proper” brand’s product line.


No, not anymore.  The luster has worn off.  There are so many options out there now that people are no longer defaulting to Beats.  I'm sure Apple has a difficult task keeping the product lines distinct and geared towards their respective target market (young people, professionals, hipsters).


----------



## chinmie

BigZ12 said:


> I put on my Spinfit CP100Z L. Very happy with that.



 sweet! glad it worked out for you. i cannot use small bores on the T1C, especially the long barrelled ones like the spinfits, because moving the T1C around in my ears with them produces sound like a resonant EQ sweep. with large bores, that sound is much lessened, and also really opens up the staging and trebles


----------



## d3myz

DigDub said:


> The qcy t1 pro has touch buttons instead of physical clicking buttons. But it uses Bluetooth 4.2 instead of 5, which may affect the connectivity. T1c which has bluetooth 5 has rock solid connectivity.



There is actually a newer version of the QCY T1 Pro that is BT 5.0. I absolutely love mine. I got mine at Gearbest for approx $40.


----------



## d3myz

voicemaster said:


> QCY T1C is absolutely awesome. I used them on my 13 hours flight and it did a magnificent job of blocking outside noise. It blocks noise even better than my ZS7 impressively. Call quality on it is also not bad, but like most TWIEM, it uses an omni directional microphone, so the other end on the phone will hear every noise surrounding you.



I haven't had a chance to read through the entire thread, but any idea how the T1C compare to the T1 Pro? I absolutely love my Pro's.


----------



## d3myz

DannyBai said:


> I ended up backing the Model X from Adv-Sound. I have two of their BT dongles that I really like so I believe their TWE's will be good and with nice sound. I really like the Senn's but wish the app would actually work and the battery lasted longer. Would be nice if the unit actually powered off in the case also. I backed the crazybaby air awhile ago and those were complete junk. No connection when outdoors.



I owned the Model 3 for a couple weeks, really love the sound quality but hated the cheap BT dongle, so I returned them. I am very interested in the Model X. They seem like a similar model to these: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07L9PJJX1/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?smid=A2KCABFGMJN44&psc=1  I am very interested to hear your impressions. Advanced is a great company that makes quality gear.


----------



## actorlife

d3myz said:


> I owned the Model 3 for a couple weeks, really love the sound quality but hated the cheap BT dongle, so I returned them. I am very interested in the Model X. They seem like a similar model to these: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07L9PJJX1/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?smid=A2KCABFGMJN44&psc=1  I am very interested to hear your impressions. Advanced is a great company that makes quality gear.


I have them(Amazon link ones) and really like them. SQ is fantastic. I wrote my thoughts on them about ten pages back. I highly recommend them. If you like more of a soundstage then Anbes 359. I really like both for music/movies.


----------



## actorlife

BigZ12 said:


> Called my mom and two friends, and all says the mic sounds great. Haven't tried outside in more noisy areas.


Thanks for the overview. Does it have volume control? I may get these since the T1C I ordered look like they are never gonna get here(been 3 weeks).


----------



## Slater

hifi80sman said:


> Yes, they will initially be priced WAY too high, but they know all the Apple-Beats jobbers will skip that mortgage/school tuition payment to buy them.  Later, they will be on "sale" for $299, which is the real regular price.
> 
> In related news, I did snag a pair of Beats Studio3 for $104 at Target (clearance, 70% off).  For that price, I'm actually quite happy with them.



That’s actually the single Beats model I’d own. They’re not bad at all, and $104 is a very reasonable price.


----------



## Slater (Mar 25, 2019)

chinmie said:


> sweet! glad it worked out for you. i cannot use small bores on the T1C, especially the long barrelled ones like the spinfits, because moving the T1C around in my ears with them produces sound like a resonant EQ sweep. with large bores, that sound is much lessened, and also really opens up the staging and trebles



I agree on this. I received the Q1S/T1C today, and didn’t really like the stock tips. I tried some tip rolling, and long barreled tips like KZ Starlines and SpinFits did not work out so well. There was a suction effect and the sound did weird things (due to driver pressure I assume).

I figured out that (for me anyways), a shallow insertion works best, not a deep insertion. And wide bore tips absolutely help out the sound. I have not gone through all of my wide bore tips yet, but I threw on some Auvios which sounded great and fit perfectly. Whirlwinds and a few other wide bore tips would not stay on due to the size of the nozzle.

Overall I’m happy with these. They seem built well, are comfortable with the right tips, and sound great. The charge case is surprisingly small, and I like that the fact that it doesn’t have a lid. I have not made any phone calls yet, but I’ll try that out tomorrow.

I also swapped out the nylon filters with stainless mesh. I’ve found that the super fine nylon filters get clogged up with gunk fairly quickly, so it was more of a preventative measure.

BTW, does anyone know what size drivers these have? Maybe it was my eyes deceiving me, but looking down in the nozzle (which is very narrow), the driver looks _ridiculously_ tiny. Like maybe a 5mm micro driver. I couldn’t find the official size in any QCY literature. Not that it really matters; I’m just curious that’s all.


----------



## d3myz

actorlife said:


> I have them(Amazon link ones) and really like them. SQ is fantastic. I wrote my thoughts on them about ten pages back. I highly recommend them. If you like more of a soundstage then Anbes 359. I really like both for music/movies.



Do you own the QCY T1 Pro or Vogue as it's now called? I see lots of people talking about the T1/T1C, but I can't image they would sound different than the T1 Pros. These things sound incredible for the price. nice highs, clear mids, a bit underwhelming bass, but it's accurate. I use JVC spiral dots, so I know that reduced my bass and  enhanced my mids and highs a bit...I just found the T1C on ebay for $10. I'm going  to pick up a pair.  https://www.ebay.com/itm/163616069860


----------



## Slater

d3myz said:


> Do you own the QCY T1 Pro or Vogue as it's now called? I see lots of people talking about the T1/T1C, but I can't image they would sound different than the T1 Pros. These things sound incredible for the price. nice highs, clear mids, a bit underwhelming bass, but it's accurate. I use JVC spiral dots, so I know that reduced my bass and  enhanced my mids and highs a bit...I just found the T1C on ebay for $10. I'm going  to pick up a pair.  https://www.ebay.com/itm/163616069860



Nice find! Combine it with the $3 coupon and you got yourself a heck of a deal (PERFECT3).

Hopefully it’s legit and not counterfeit.


----------



## d3myz

Slater said:


> Nice find! Combine it with the $3 coupon and you got yourself a heck of a deal (PERFECT3).
> 
> Hopefully it’s legit and not counterfeit.



Thanks, Yea, I'm not getting my hopes up, but even if it is a scam, good o'l paypal will refund me. Thanks for the coupon.


----------



## jrm27

okay... I'm back on the hunt! I've been using Samsung Gear Icon X (2018) since November. The left ear gave out, and Samsung had me send them in for warranty service. Then they gave me the run around for about 6 weeks and I'm now without headphones. So.... I'm on the hunt while they sort this out. Apparently, they are out of replacement stock.

I liked about 80% of the Gear Icon X…. The fit was a little weird, even after trying all the different tips and wings. But it was passable and stayed in at the gym. The sound was somewhat thin, but it was about what I expected. Battery life was fine, the in-ear profile was great. I never got them to pair to my computer so I couldn’t load songs onto the internal storage (which was a bummer).

In the past I’ve had the Bragi “The headphone”, which were a great introductory pair. The battery life was rough and the sound was comparable to the Samsung Gear. I really wanted the Jabra 65 to be great, but the microphone was quite bad and I got lots of complaints when making calls. So… what should I be looking for next? I’d like to stay in the $150 range, and have a low profile in the ear. I use them to talk on rather often, so mic quality is important as is overall QC. Any pointers?  Thanks!


----------



## LajostheHun

OK  so I had a couple of days with the Anbes 359 [spaceship] , my impressions.
First it is AAC compatible in fact that is it's default connection type on Android checked through the developer page.
Sound is rather amazing especially for the price [@$36.00], it easily outpaced the Anker Liberty Air,[$80.00] which I bought just a week before this. All of the main three spectrum comes across clear and with good definition. I'm not gonna tell you that it will be an "audiophile" staple, but for the money one just can't complain here. Compared to my Sennheiser HD1[originally $199] in ear, it falls short just a tad mostly the bass and treble definition, but it is very close for the fraction of the money.
Fit is good but feels a bit weird in my ear, and looks a bit funky too. I have a rather smallish ear, with a narrow canal to boot.Naturally this will be different for most everyone.
Battery life is rather abysmal, you can really see the tiny battery indicator next to the cell signal bars just going down pretty quick. While I never drained it fully yet, I doubt it would produce more than 3hrs, but then again most people would just store it in the charge case and they charge quickly, so all in all it shouldn't be an issue for most.
I haven't tested for phone calls yet, so I can't say for sure, but listening for rtings.com's test files recorded with an artificial noisy environment, I'm now suspecting that there is really nothing out there that do well in any kind of noisy situation, so I don't have high hopes here, but if it is an interest here I'll report back on my finding.
So if music listening is high priority with these on the go, I can't see anyone would go wrong with this, I'm quiet amazed what can be achieved for this kind of money these days.


----------



## chronograf86

d3myz said:


> Thanks, Yea, I'm not getting my hopes up, but even if it is a scam, good o'l paypal will refund me. Thanks for the coupon.



I wouldn't be sure about that on 100%. Bought once laptop from seller like this and spent hours on the phone till got refund. IMHO, newer buy from sellers with close to 0 number of transactions. Sorry for off topic.


----------



## actorlife

d3myz said:


> Do you own the QCY T1 Pro or Vogue as it's now called? I see lots of people talking about the T1/T1C, but I can't image they would sound different than the T1 Pros. These things sound incredible for the price. nice highs, clear mids, a bit underwhelming bass, but it's accurate. I use JVC spiral dots, so I know that reduced my bass and  enhanced my mids and highs a bit...I just found the T1C on ebay for $10. I'm going  to pick up a pair.  https://www.ebay.com/itm/163616069860


Yep I ordered them 3 weeks ago from another seller for about the same price and still have not received them. If I don't get them by Saturday I'm getting a refund. Like I said anbes 359 is a great one.


----------



## actorlife (Mar 26, 2019)

LajostheHun said:


> OK  so I had a couple of days with the Anbes 359 [spaceship] , my impressions.
> First it is AAC compatible in fact that is it's default connection type on Android checked through the developer page.
> Sound is rather amazing especially for the price [@$36.00], it easily outpaced the Anker Liberty Air,[$80.00] which I bought just a week before this. All of the main three spectrum comes across clear and with good definition. I'm not gonna tell you that it will be an "audiophile" staple, but for the money one just can't complain here. Compared to my Sennheiser HD1[originally $199] in ear, it falls short just a tad mostly the bass and treble definition, but it is very close for the fraction of the money.
> Fit is good but feels a bit weird in my ear, and looks a bit funky too. I have a rather smallish ear, with a narrow canal to boot.Naturally this will be different for most everyone.
> ...


They are amazing for the price. AAC huh? No wonder they sound so good. If they go on sale I may buy a backup. You should try using them with Netflix/YouTube they sound amazingly clear. Glad you like them. I've had over 3 hrs with them. I'll see and test to see how long they can go until they shut off. I also ordered some foam tips to see if there is a difference.


----------



## DigDub (Mar 26, 2019)

My current favorite tws earbuds is the Samsung Galaxy buds. At first I couldn't get a good seal with them and the buds hurt my ear antihelix. I have since removed the rubber wings, even the rubber ring without the wings. The fit is now good and no pain.

Like:
- relatively neutral sound signature leaning towards bright.
- long battery life. Around 6 hours.
- strong connection, similar to the qcy t1c.
- volume control.
- app which allows preset EQ, useful notification function, ability to see battery life of each buds.
- firmware upgradeable.
- very light and doesn't protrude much from the ears.

Not so good:
- touch control can be hard to tap right.
- doesn't seem to have a way to turn the buds off.


----------



## nicholasbgr

Well the last firmware update for the MTW definitely didn’t fix the battery drain. Any word from Sennheiser if they plan on releasing one or can we just consider this a lost cause?


----------



## Spamateur (Mar 26, 2019)

Had a bit of a layover while traveling last week and tried out a couple models I had yet to hear while at the InMotion store:

*MW07*: I can see why people like these. Really nice mids and bass. Somewhat romantic-sounding with a slower decay and slightly more bloom, but also sounded natural. However, the treble wasn't great. Big spike and some obvious distortion (driver breakup?) that's unfortunately far-too common in IEMs. I found it peaky and a bit bothersome in the higher registers, but I'm pretty picky about treble reproduction so YMMV. I still think my Mavin Air-X are better than these top-to-bottom. The Mavins are more neutral and cleaner in general if you prefer a less romantic sound, but the bass and mids of the MW07 are quite seductive.

*RHA TrueConnect*: I spent a lot of time with these and I wasn't expecting to be impressed, but these sound pretty good. The sub-bass extension is great on the TrueConnect and gets looooowww, and imaging is better than average. They're also quiet. It wasn't the best of environments to listen but they also seemed to not have any noticeable noise floor. In general they have a very clean sound similar to the Mavins, but they're not as revealing or involving. The treble is rolled off at the very upper end so that might have something to do with it, plus they're seem to just barely smooth over instrument textures. I think the Mavins are better at most things, especially detail and imaging, and are more engaging of a listening experience. The RHA sound a bit uninvolving (though not dull) but they're a really nice listen and from what I hear the recent firmware updates (have to be applied at the factory, unfortunately) fixed a lot of the early connection issues. Also, the build quality is far superior to almost any other TW IEM that I've tried. The case and earbuds both feel solid and premium, which is my biggest complaint with the Mavins which feel plasticky and a bit cheap in direct comparison (that glossy plastic is a bummer). I also loved that the RHA came with foam Comply TrueGrip tips, as they were excellent at isolation, and fit was good despite the little microphone/antenna protrusions.


----------



## webvan

doo_wop said:


> Just bought the Tiso i4. There is a good discount on Ali at the moment. I'm not very good at describing sound but maybe will try to compare them to some other tws earphones i have when they arrive.



Still no reviews/manuals anywhere but a user picture has been posted on AE, they look small enough :


----------



## SaveTheMantaRays

Question on the Sabbat X12...
Does it actually seal in your ear canal like an IEM, or does it sit closely to the ear canal like the Airpods?

I want a solid seal like the Fiio FA1 or FA7 created with their comfortable new resin designs.

And also, it looks like there are no actual ear tips to put on the ends, is this correct?

Thanx you


----------



## srinivasvignesh

SaveTheMantaRays said:


> Question on the Sabbat X12...
> Does it actually seal in your ear canal like an IEM, or does it sit closely to the ear canal like the Airpods?
> 
> I want a solid seal like the Fiio FA1 or FA7 created with their comfortable new resin designs.
> ...




It is more like the Airpods. Yes, there are no eartips to put on. That is correct.


----------



## SaveTheMantaRays

Does anyone have links to the correct QCY T2C on Amazon in US?

Or does anyone have link to the Qs1 or Qs2 in US?

Or was someone saying the Qs1 and the T1C and maybe another product from QCY are all the same in U.S. releases?

Thanx for the help


----------



## chompchomps (Mar 27, 2019)

Feeling a little cheated when this came in, ordered the T1C from Ali express but the box and item shows T1 instead? Do you guys have the same problem? or does yours show T1C? Uploaded some pics as above


----------



## Slater

chompchomps said:


> Feeling a little cheated when this came in, ordered the T1C from Ali express but the box and item shows T1 instead? Do you guys have the same problem? or does yours show T1C? Uploaded some pics as above



I ordered the QS1 from Aliexpress.

My white outer box looks exactly the same, but says QS1 where yours says T1.

The bottom of my charge case, however, looks 100% identical to yours. This includes the model number, FCC ID, CMITT ID, etc.

So I would guess that you’re OK.


----------



## clerkpalmer

Debating whether to take a flyer on the TFZ X1.  Anyone have these?


----------



## SuperLuigi

chompchomps said:


> Feeling a little cheated when this came in, ordered the T1C from Ali express but the box and item shows T1 instead? Do you guys have the same problem? or does yours show T1C? Uploaded some pics as above



http://www.qcy.com/list/355.html

From their site, your case looks like the t1c.  Always sort of odd when dealing with Chinese companies.


----------



## chompchomps

ah thanks for the reassurance @Slater @SuperLuigi, needed that really. Was about to just shoot the shop a message and feel disappointed.

Well first impressions on these are really good, well worth the money. 
Tested call quality on FaceTime and it was decent, not muffled or anything, but it is also in a quiet room. Will try it out next time on the streets.


----------



## Bob24

nicholasbgr said:


> Well the last firmware update for the MTW definitely didn’t fix the battery drain. Any word from Sennheiser if they plan on releasing one or can we just consider this a lost cause?



Is that so?? 

Maybe it was too early but initial feedback posted here to date was that things had vastly improved.


----------



## Dcell7

webvan said:


> Still no reviews/manuals anywhere but a user picture has been posted on AE, they look small enough :



I just received these. Haven’t really listened to it though. Just tested the pairing and the charging. Compared to the QCY T1C they are really small. They come with 2 kinds of tips in 3 sizes each and a small usb cable.


----------



## Slater

Does anyone know how to verify that iOS is indeed using AAC? I’d like to make sure the Q1S/T1C is really using AAC.

Is there something in settings, or some app I can install? Or do we just have to take everyone’s word for it?


----------



## d3myz

Slater said:


> Does anyone know how to verify that iOS is indeed using AAC? I’d like to make sure the Q1S/T1C is really using AAC.
> 
> Is there something in settings, or some app I can install? Or do we just have to take everyone’s word for it?


I may be mistaken, but i've read iOS only supports AAC via BT. Spotify, Youtube, Apple Music are all in AAC via  BT


----------



## Bob24

d3myz said:


> I may be mistaken, but i've read iOS only supports AAC via BT. Spotify, Youtube, Apple Music are all in AAC via  BT



It also supports SBC. Any bluetooth audio device has to support it to guarantee compatibility.


----------



## nc8000

Slater said:


> Does anyone know how to verify that iOS is indeed using AAC? I’d like to make sure the Q1S/T1C is really using AAC.
> 
> Is there something in settings, or some app I can install? Or do we just have to take everyone’s word for it?



As far as I’m aware the only way you can verify what codec is actually used is to connect the iPhone to an Apple computer and run some system tool on it to access the technical log files on the phone. As I don’t have any Apple computers I have not tried it


----------



## BigZ12 (Mar 27, 2019)

My QCY T2C is still rocking! Have been listening to them a lot last 2 days, and I'm very pleased with BT connection (NO dropouts), sound and comfort.

The only annoying thing is when using the lock screen volume slider on my iPhone X, the connection can drop out on the left bud or both. The same thing happens when adjusting volume with the digital crown on my Apple Watch 4G.
Sometimes the sound gets out of phase after adjusting the volume like that.
I need to push play/pause, or adjust the volume again (with the slider/crown) to get the sound in phase again.
This doesn't happen when using the volume buttons on the side of the iPhone.

Have any of you experienced this on the T1C/T2C?


----------



## d3myz (Mar 27, 2019)

BigZ12 said:


> My QCY T2C is still rocking! Have been listening to them a lot last 2 days, and I'm very pleased with BT connection (NO dropouts), sound and comfort.
> 
> The only annoying thing is when using the lock screen volume slider on my iPhone X, the connection can drop out on the left bud or both. The same thing happens when adjusting volume with the digital crown on my Apple Watch 4G.
> Sometimes the sound gets out of phase after adjusting the volume like that.
> ...



Not sure if this is relevant, but i've had the T1-Pro/Vogue BT 5.0 revision which uses the same RTL8763B chipset. I've used it for 8 months now and I just started noticing in the last 2 weeks I lose the left channel  while i'm watching a video on FB or YT and an ad comes up. sometimes it comes back after I pause it, sometimes I have to power cycle, super annoying. What seems strange is that it's still paired with phone. I can click on the left bud and start and stop the vid, even activate siri,  but I get no audio. This also happens intermittently when listening to music or audiobooks, I figured they are just defective. I contacted Gearbest where I purchased them, hoping to get a new set. I'm using an Xs Max with iOS 12.2


----------



## Dcell7

Spent half an hour listening to the Tiso i4 and i can say it has a tight deep bass if the seal is correct, slightly recessed mids and the highs are rolled off so it’s signature is  kind of v-shaped. Separation is quite ok but the soundstage is average.

I used it with an iPhone X so i cannot verify if i am on SBC or AAC. The documentation on Aliexpress does mention AAC. No dropout even when i went down 1 floor in a house with concrete walls. They don’t play nice with a Mac though as i could only pair the right bud on my Mac and it used SBC. Maybe i have to reset the whole thing and try again. I will try that in when i have time.


----------



## gobin

Hi everyone, is the qcy 1c best option for under $20 right now? I saw some on ebay going for $10.5, which is cheaper than ali and amazon. Is there a fake version of the t1c? could the one on ebay be the fake one?

I saw there’s the t1 pro and t2 which around $10 more. For people who have both what’s the big difference in term of connectivity and sound quality? and is it worth the extra over the regular version?


----------



## chinmie

chompchomps said:


> Feeling a little cheated when this came in, ordered the T1C from Ali express but the box and item shows T1 instead? Do you guys have the same problem? or does yours show T1C? Uploaded some pics as above





don't worry about it, it is the right one.



clerkpalmer said:


> Debating whether to take a flyer on the TFZ X1.  Anyone have these?



it's a rebrand of the mifo o5 pro. my suggestion is better to buy the standard mifo o5. that pro version (with BA drivers, like the TFZ X1) has a cut off bass and treble



Dcell7 said:


> Spent half an hour listening to the Tiso i4 and i can say it has a tight deep bass if the seal is correct, slightly recessed mids and the highs are rolled off so it’s signature is  kind of v-shaped. Separation is quite ok but the soundstage is average.
> 
> I used it with an iPhone X so i cannot verify if i am on SBC or AAC. The documentation on Aliexpress does mention AAC. No dropout even when i went down 1 floor in a house with concrete walls. They don’t play nice with a Mac though as i could only pair the right bud on my Mac and it used SBC. Maybe i have to reset the whole thing and try again. I will try that in when i have time.



how is it sound compared to the T1C? which one do you like better?



Slater said:


> BTW, does anyone know what size drivers these have? Maybe it was my eyes deceiving me, but looking down in the nozzle (which is very narrow), the driver looks _ridiculously_ tiny. Like maybe a 5mm micro driver. I couldn’t find the official size in any QCY literature. Not that it really matters; I’m just curious that’s all.



it is using micro drivers, but not sure about the size.. there is a dismantling of it here
http://www.52audio.com/archives/8918.html

all these TWS performance (especially the T1C and WF1000X) made me a real fan of micro drivers


----------



## actorlife (Mar 27, 2019)

Got these for half the price on the bay and just got them. Came in a generic box. The treble appears to be a bit rolled off(like the Sabbat x12, which I returned to get a refund after the right side did not sync together). Bass is good and not boomy. A tad bit of soundstage. They don't sound bad I just think they need time to open up or these may be just neutral. No volume control. BT 4.2. No indication which is the left/right of the bud itself. Breakups occurred more than a couple of times already, although no disconnections. I'm gonna give them a week to see if there is any change. They have aluminum grills. ((Edit)) the bass simmers without the grills. I will report back on call quality.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07PCQBQCL/ref=cm_sw_r_sms_apa_i_X4aNCb7YH1R0Y


----------



## assassin10000 (Mar 27, 2019)

chompchomps said:


> Feeling a little cheated when this came in, ordered the T1C from Ali express but the box and item shows T1 instead? Do you guys have the same problem? or does yours show T1C? Uploaded some pics as above



Just got mine in today. If you can confirm it's got BT 5.0 then its the QS1/T1C.

The charging case, as @Slater & @chinmie confirmed is identical. So it looks like it probably is. Here's pics of mine:






The bluetooth connection on my pair is very good compared to the other 3-4 BT 5.0 devices I've tried. Just went outside to check and I can get 125-130 feet before I start having connection issues. My phone has a weak BT antenna, with most devices I only get 10-15 feet before breaking up starts occuring.


T200 & T400 AE foams fit. I cut 3mm off a pair of T200 to get it to fit the case, at full size it would prevent the contacts from touching. I used the T200's as it will hold better with the way the nozzle is shaped.


----------



## BigZ12

http://www.avantree.com/pre-order-p...ooth-usb-audio-adapter-avantree-dg60-blk.html
Not on topic, but thought I should tip you PC/HTPC users out there. (and you US users are lucky to get it in June... I must wait until August.)
This is the first USB transmitter for PC supporting AptX LL / HD I've seen. 
Hope this works like the Avantree DG50 Leaf (I'm using it every day), where both skipping tracks with the headset's inline control and the mic works with the USB transmitter.

Have any of you seen similar USB transmitters for PC with AptX LL/HD and perhaps AAC?


----------



## BigZ12

https://www.aliexpress.com/store/pr...4dTgDIV-f-6V4GSr5EgYMTysr-NR6xHdVKZ82d7LNIwZw
$5 off if you are new customer
$5 if you use Paypal
I bought for my nephew. $15 incl shipping and insurance.


----------



## webvan

Dcell7 said:


> Spent half an hour listening to the Tiso i4 and i can say it has a tight deep bass if the seal is correct, slightly recessed mids and the highs are rolled off so it’s signature is  kind of v-shaped. Separation is quite ok but the soundstage is average.
> 
> I used it with an iPhone X so i cannot verify if i am on SBC or AAC. The documentation on Aliexpress does mention AAC. No dropout even when i went down 1 floor in a house with concrete walls. They don’t play nice with a Mac though as i could only pair the right bud on my Mac and it used SBC. Maybe i have to reset the whole thing and try again. I will try that in when i have time.



Thanks, what other TWEs do you have to compare them to ?
You said they came with two types of tips, siicone and foam is it ? It seems you found it difficult to get a good seal ?


----------



## matokt

Anyone tried both QCY T1C and QS2 and can tell the difference?


----------



## Bartig

gobin said:


> Hi everyone, is the qcy 1c best option for under $20 right now? I saw some on ebay going for $10.5, which is cheaper than ali and amazon. Is there a fake version of the t1c? could the one on ebay be the fake one?
> 
> I saw there’s the t1 pro and t2 which around $10 more. For people who have both what’s the big difference in term of connectivity and sound quality? and is it worth the extra over the regular version?


No! Don't buy the Pro. The QCY QS1 or T1C is the one to get. It IS the best option for this money, and also far more money. Tonality, detail and bass are great. 



matokt said:


> Anyone tried both QCY T1C and QS2 and can tell the difference?


The only difference is the capacity of the battery box.


----------



## actorlife (Mar 28, 2019)

BigZ12 said:


> https://www.aliexpress.com/store/pr...4dTgDIV-f-6V4GSr5EgYMTysr-NR6xHdVKZ82d7LNIwZw
> $5 off if you are new customer
> $5 if you use Paypal
> I bought for my nephew. $15 incl shipping and insurance.


Link says $89. I thought QS2 were about $30. I guess I will wait till they go down in price


----------



## BigZ12 (Mar 28, 2019)

actorlife said:


> Link says $89. I thought QS2 were about $30. I guess I will wait till they go down in price


Yep... it's sold out 
Think they sold over 1000 since 11 AM (GMT+1)
Edit: They were $21.58 +  $2.89 (insurance)
My nephew and a friend got them with $10 discount (new customer & Paypal). Total of $15,27. (incl Paypal fee of $0,8)


----------



## actorlife (Mar 28, 2019)

BigZ12 said:


> Yep... it's sold out
> Think they sold over 1000 since 11 AM (GMT+1)
> Edit: They were $21.58 +  $2.89 (insurance)
> My nephew and a friend got them with $10 discount (new customer & Paypal). Total of $15,27. (incl Paypal fee of $0,8)


How did they get 10 off? I only see a $5 discount coupon. Also does the Q2S have volume controls on the earbud?


----------



## BigZ12

actorlife said:


> How did they get 10 off? I only see a $5 discount coupon. Also does the Q2S have volume controls on the earbud?


No volume control 
$5 new user
$5 because they paid with Paypal


----------



## MartynB85

Been lurking on here for a while, I intended to grab a set of the MTW or MW07's. I think I've decided to grab a 'decent' chi-hi set instead, while the tech matures. Plus I only really intend to use them at the gym.

I'm thinking the Mifo 05, Anbes 359 or the QCY QS1. Which is the best SQ, not interested in anything or than SQ and fit. After a balanced sound, but must be able to produce good controlled bass.

Thanks


----------



## SaveTheMantaRays

chinmie said:


> don't worry about it, it is the right one.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## chompchomps

assassin10000 said:


> Just got mine in today. If you can confirm it's got BT 5.0 then its the QS1/T1C.
> 
> The charging case, as @Slater & @chinmie confirmed is identical. So it looks like it probably is. Here's pics of mine:
> 
> ...



Not sure how I'm going to confirm BT 5.0 though


----------



## actorlife

BigZ12 said:


> No volume control
> $5 new user
> $5 because they paid with Paypal


I tried paying with PayPal and no discount. Darn no volume control. I guess I should get the QS1 instead since there no difference except the new cooler case.


----------



## ricarva

smaragd said:


> Ok so I tried all these various tips and guess what ...
> The Westone red star tips give me the best seal and thundering sub bass while reducing some of the harshness in the highs that I got with symbals... go figure.
> 
> Yes the Westone star tip have a small bore but somehow managed to slip them over the MW07’s nozzles...
> ...



Are you able to list all the different tips you included in the picture (supplier/model)? I think I need to find some alternative ones for my new Galaxy Buds.


----------



## actorlife

MartynB85 said:


> Been lurking on here for a while, I intended to grab a set of the MTW or MW07's. I think I've decided to grab a 'decent' chi-hi set instead, while the tech matures. Plus I only really intend to use them at the gym.
> 
> I'm thinking the Mifo 05, Anbes 359 or the QCY QS1. Which is the best SQ, not interested in anything or than SQ and fit. After a balanced sound, but must be able to produce good controlled bass.
> 
> Thanks


Get the anbes 359. It's fantastic for the price. Look a couple pages back for my mini review. Also good call quality.


----------



## BigZ12

https://www.aliexpress.com/store/pr...M6_BSdmpGdlJQzI0ypUtEylOpjoNqoPx5wYtSH8x7vaKo
It's back at $21.58 (remember your coupons  )


----------



## SaveTheMantaRays

BigZ12 said:


> https://www.aliexpress.com/store/pr...M6_BSdmpGdlJQzI0ypUtEylOpjoNqoPx5wYtSH8x7vaKo
> It's back at $21.58 (remember your coupons  )



This is great link.   So this is not available directly in the U.S. yet I assume?

Also, on average how long do people wait to get shipping from Aliexpress to Central Time Zone


----------



## d3myz (Mar 28, 2019)

gobin said:


> Hi everyone, is the qcy 1c best option for under $20 right now? I saw some on ebay going for $10.5, which is cheaper than ali and amazon. Is there a fake version of the t1c? could the one on ebay be the fake one?
> 
> I saw there’s the t1 pro and t2 which around $10 more. For people who have both what’s the big difference in term of connectivity and sound quality? and is it worth the extra over the regular version?


I actually own the t1 pro BT 5.0 version. Seems like i'm the only one around here with them, LOL. I really like them, the sound quality is surprisingly good, nice highs and mids, balanced not boomy bass, fantastic for audiobooks  as well. These are my every day buds right now. I've ordered 2 sets of t1c/ts1's so i'll be able to compare soon. but for $10 more you get  a much nicer case with 500mah bigger case battery and I think the form factor of the Pro's is nicer looking. Just my 2 cents.


----------



## d3myz

I found the T1c/T1s on ebay for $11.99 ordered them yesterday and they just shipped.  https://www.ebay.com/itm/173851423886 There were another pair for $9.59 but it looks like they are gone.


----------



## hifi80sman (Mar 28, 2019)

Slater said:


> Does anyone know how to verify that iOS is indeed using AAC? I’d like to make sure the Q1S/T1C is really using AAC.
> 
> Is there something in settings, or some app I can install? Or do we just have to take everyone’s word for it?


For what it's worth, I've connected the following devices to my iPhone (Xs Max) and verified it defaults to AAC:

-  Sony 1000XM2 & 1000XM3 (verified via companion app).
-  Audio-Technica ATH-DSR7BT & ATH-DSR9BT (verified via "codec light" on headphones).
-  Audio-Technica M50xBT (verified via companion app).
-  Radsone ES100 (verified via companion app).

If you also have an Android device and it defaults to AAC, I think it's reasonable to conclude it also defaults to AAC on iOS.


----------



## mikp

before everyone goes crazy..those qcy ones have been on joybuy for 17 and 20$ for some time.  Also ebay..when its too cheap you get nothing usually. Just waisted time +-45days and lost money in currecy\card fees IF paypal refunds.


----------



## BigZ12

mikp said:


> before everyone goes crazy..those qcy ones have been on joybuy for 17 and 20$ for some time.  Also ebay..when its too cheap you get nothing usually. Just waisted time +-45days and lost money in currecy\card fees IF paypal refunds.


There's no QCY T2C on Joybuy...


----------



## mikp

https://www.joybuy.com/600415405.html


----------



## BigZ12

mikp said:


> https://www.joybuy.com/600415405.html


Thats T1C...


----------



## mikp (Mar 28, 2019)

https://www.joybuy.com/600887661.html#none

one click away.....

also the qcy t3 with volume adjust is coming soon, too bad it looks like the apple ones


----------



## SuperLuigi

mikp said:


> https://www.joybuy.com/600887661.html#none
> 
> one click away.....
> 
> also the qcy t3 with volume adjust is coming soon, too bad it looks like the apple ones



Thanks for the link.  It's only a few dollars more than aliexpress but faster shipping time.


----------



## d3myz

mikp said:


> before everyone goes crazy..those qcy ones have been on joybuy for 17 and 20$ for some time.  Also ebay..when its too cheap you get nothing usually. Just waisted time +-45days and lost money in currecy\card fees IF paypal refunds.


Did you get a shipping notification? I bought 2 pairs from 2 different sellers for under $12 and i've received shipping confirmations for both. Also, in My exp Paypal and Ebay have ALWAYS refunded my money for fraudulent sellers.


----------



## Bartig

d3myz said:


> I actually own the t1 pro BT 5.0 version. Seems like i'm the only one around here with them, LOL. I really like them, the sound quality is surprisingly good, nice highs and mids, balanced not boomy bass, fantastic for audiobooks  as well. These are my every day buds right now. I've ordered 2 sets of t1c/ts1's so i'll be able to compare soon. but for $10 more you get  a much nicer case with 500mah bigger case battery and I think the form factor of the Pro's is nicer looking. Just my 2 cents.


From what I read and saw about the Pro, the sound quality indeed isn't bad, but the auto pairing and shutting down doesn't seem to go as good as on the T1c. I loathe connectivity and pairing issues on other sets I have, that's why I vote against it perse haha.


----------



## Slater

matokt said:


> Anyone tried both QCY T1C and QS2 and can tell the difference?



I thought they’re identical except for the charging case?


----------



## mikp

d3myz said:


> Did you get a shipping notification? I bought 2 pairs from 2 different sellers for under $12 and i've received shipping confirmations for both. Also, in My exp Paypal and Ebay have ALWAYS refunded my money for fraudulent sellers.



The "ebay: SHIPPED" message?  That means nothing.  Ive had good luck also with refunds, but I loose in currency conversion and the 1.5% the bank takes in the initial charge.

Good if you get it, but be aware theres plenty of random chinese ebay accounts out there they use on trending products.


----------



## d3myz

Bartig said:


> From what I read and saw about the Pro, the sound quality indeed isn't bad, but the auto pairing and shutting down doesn't seem to go as good as on the T1c. I loathe connectivity and pairing issues on other sets I have, that's why I vote against it perse haha.


Interesting. Well I've never tested the T1C, so I couldn't compare, but the revision of the T1 Pro I have is BT 5.0 and has an identical chipset, so i'm  not sure how they would be different. The only pairing issues i've encountered have been when i'm using the left bud by itself. Every once in a while I have to factory reset it to get it to connect it back to the right bud, but it takes literally 20 seconds. Shutting down works flawlessly on mine. Press and hold for a couple seconds and off. I'll post a comparison when I get my T1c's


----------



## d3myz

mikp said:


> The "ebay: SHIPPED" message?  That means nothing.  Ive had good luck also with refunds, but I loose in currency conversion and the 1.5% the bank takes in the initial charge.
> 
> Good if you get it, but be aware theres plenty of random chinese ebay accounts out there they use on trending products.


Strange. I've  converted a lot of currency from USD to YEN, Pounds, Euros, Canadian dollars and what ever they use in Poland and I've never NOT gotten all my money back. Then again, I use the Paypal SmartConnect for all my purchases.


----------



## Slater

d3myz said:


> Interesting. Well I've never tested the T1C, so I couldn't compare, but the revision of the T1 Pro I have is BT 5.0 and has an identical chipset, so i'm  not sure how they would be different. The only pairing issues i've encountered have been when i'm using the left bud by itself. Every once in a while I have to factory reset it to get it to connect it back to the right bud, but it takes literally 20 seconds. Shutting down works flawlessly on mine. Press and hold for a couple seconds and off. I'll post a comparison when I get my T1c's



The difference in connection performance could be due to the ceramic antenna used, or something in the board or circuitry design (such as battery location or shielding). All of which is independent of the Bluetooth chipset used.


----------



## Bartig (Mar 28, 2019)

d3myz said:


> Interesting. Well I've never tested the T1C, so I couldn't compare, but the revision of the T1 Pro I have is BT 5.0 and has an identical chipset, so i'm  not sure how they would be different. The only pairing issues i've encountered have been when i'm using the left bud by itself. Every once in a while I have to factory reset it to get it to connect it back to the right bud, but it takes literally 20 seconds. Shutting down works flawlessly on mine. Press and hold for a couple seconds and off. I'll post a comparison when I get my T1c's


In all those picking up and putting back in and listening for hours and hours, I've never encountered any problems with the T1c. Didn't know the Pro had a revision though!

Listening to the *Tiso i4 right now*. I quite like them. No video sync on iPhone, but a pleasant bassy sound with natural soundstage and clear mids. Vocals are upfront - something I don't mind, highs are rolled off - something I don't mind either - it makes the sound smooth and friendly. Great sounding pair for 25 dollar. But then again... The T1c is even better...


----------



## webvan

Are there volume controls on the Tiso ? Is the button easy to push without ramming it into your ear ?
I haven't been able to find a manual or a review so far.


----------



## Bartig

webvan said:


> Are there volume controls on the Tiso ? Is the button easy to push without ramming it into your ear ?
> I haven't been able to find a manual or a review so far.


No volume, and you really have to press the button hard. It is quite annoying yes.


----------



## d3myz

Bartig said:


> In all those picking up and putting back in and listening for hours and hours, I've never encountered any problems with the T1c. Didn't know the Pro had a revision though!
> 
> Listening to the *Tiso i4 right now*. I quite like them. No video sync on iPhone, but a pleasant bassy sound with natural soundstage and clear mids. Vocals are upfront - something I don't mind, highs are rolled off - something I don't mind either - it makes the sound smooth and friendly. Great sounding pair for 25 dollar. But then again... The T1c is even better...



With the T1c, how often would you say you use only one of the buds at a time? I listen to a lot of audiobooks and have a tenancy just use one or the other, unless my 2 year old twins are around, then I use them as Earplugs .  
The I4's look cool, have you listened to any Audiobooks with them? They seems like they'd be good for that. The QCY Pro's are quite nice, good treble definition, solid mids, they don't sync with video either. for comparison I have the Syllable D900P, they sound VERY similar but the Syllable's have a touch more mid bass so authors with boomy voices don't sound quite as clear and they don't fit as well.
I also have the Tin Audio T2 which is the  best sounding set of buds I have for books, the mid range is excellent on them, but they are an wired mmcx bud I converted to wireless with a  BT cable.


----------



## d3myz

Slater said:


> The difference in connection performance could be due to the ceramic antenna used, or something in the board or circuitry design (such as battery location or shielding). All of which is independent of the Bluetooth chipset used.


Ahh, that makes sense, they do look like a bit different in composition.


----------



## d3myz (Mar 28, 2019)

bump


----------



## Bartig

d3myz said:


> With the T1c, how often would you say you use only one of the buds at a time? I listen to a lot of audiobooks and have a tenancy just use one or the other, unless my 2 year old twins are around, then I use them as Earplugs .
> The I4's look cool, have you listened to any Audiobooks with them? They seems like they'd be good for that. The QCY Pro's are quite nice, good treble definition, solid mids, they don't sync with video either. for comparison I have the Syllable D900P, they sound VERY similar but the Syllable's have a touch more mid bass so authors with boomy voices don't sound quite as clear and they don't fit as well.
> I also have the Tin Audio T2 which is the  best sounding set of buds I have for books, the mid range is excellent on them, but they are an wired mmcx bud I converted to wireless with a  BT cable.


The Tiso is less suited for audiobooks: more bass, less detail in mids and highs.


----------



## turbobb

BigZ12 said:


> http://www.avantree.com/pre-order-p...ooth-usb-audio-adapter-avantree-dg60-blk.html
> Hope this works like the Avantree DG50 Leaf (I'm using it every day), where both skipping tracks with the headset's inline control and the mic works with the USB transmitter.
> Have any of you seen similar USB transmitters for PC with AptX LL/HD and perhaps AAC?



All, sorry for also going slightly OT but I've been interested in this as I want to leverage aptX LL with my NuForce BeFree 8 TWE (which doesn't get a lot of love here but they're actually pretty decent and is the only TWE that features LL that I'm aware of).

@BigZ12 - thus far the only other PC adapter I've found is their TC418 but it lacks HD (only has regular and LL but no AAC). I've pre-ordered this and will test w/the BF8.


----------



## turbobb

Luchyres said:


> @turbobb - thank you for this recommendation. I bought the Timmkoo per your rec back in the thread, and I really like them. Of course I've purchased a few other TWEs to test since then, but the Timmkoo always win, not even when evaluating the price.
> 
> I'm returning my Mavin Air-X because, honestly, the Timmkoo sound better to me, and do a much better job with calls (mic-wise).
> 
> Just wanted to give you and Timmkoo another shout-out to encourage anyone on the fence


I've actually kept both if only cuz the battery life on the Air-X are so good but also ultimately the Timmkoo's are just slightly bright for me. How are they holding up for you?


----------



## hifi80sman

turbobb said:


> All, sorry for also going slightly OT but I've been interested in this as I want to leverage aptX LL with my NuForce BeFree 8 TWE (which doesn't get a lot of love here but they're actually pretty decent and is the only TWE that features LL that I'm aware of).
> 
> @BigZ12 - thus far the only other PC adapter I've found is their TC418 but it lacks HD (only has regular and LL but no AAC). I've pre-ordered this and will test w/the BF8.


I thought the BeFree 8 were pretty good (got them for around $76 or something like that), but they had a "raspy" quality that I was not a big fan of, so I returned them.  They were in that teetering mid-tier, where they are too expensive to just throw in the bucket and keep, yet too inexpensive to compete with the big boys.  I ended up returning those for the B&O E8, that I got for $149 during an Amazon lightning sale.


----------



## clerkpalmer (Mar 28, 2019)

2019 is starting off awful for tw.  No new products from any big players. No new tech. Kinda sucks. I grabbed some soundsport frees today because I want something that lets in a little sound and I don’t have to jam in my ear.

Be nice if someone upped the ante and delivered a home run. While I love mw07 and mtw both have unforgivable flaws.


----------



## dweaver (Mar 28, 2019)

Well I decided to grab the Galaxy Buds when I got a 10% discount. My very very first impression was they were a bit to bright but I played with the EQ settings a really like the Soft setting. Really like how small they are in ear, I hardly notice them as compared to the Sennheiser MTW which is so big.

I think I might be able sleep on my side wearing these.

Just threw on a bass heavy song and these are satisfying but very controlled. I would say very AKG like having owned many AKG products. These are way better than some of the reviews suggest in my opinion. Either the reviewers were unable to get a good fit or they never played with the app. Certainly not a cheap earphone sound quality in my opinion.

It would be nice if you could customize the EQ to your liking but the presets work fairly well.

I like the ability to choose what the touch panels do but they are not as versatile as the Sennheiser MTW I wish the ambient sound would stay on when used from the touch panel versus having to hold the button to use that feature.

Interesting I am using an S9 phone and I see the Galaxy Buds are using the Samsung proprietary codec now called Scalable Codec.

Not as interesting, I am getting sound cutting occasionally, not as bad as early BT devices but more than I get from other TW's I own will see if that settles down over the next couple of days...


----------



## webvan

Bartig said:


> No volume, and you really have to press the button hard. It is quite annoying yes.



Thanks, I guess I'll give the Tiso i4 a miss then in spite of it's $20 price on AE right now. Sticking to my "next TWE will be a QC5100 with ANC" decision


----------



## Bob24

clerkpalmer said:


> 2019 is starting off awful for tw.  No new products from any big players. No new tech. Kinda sucks. I grabbed some soundsport frees today because I want something that lets in a little sound and I don’t have to jam in my ear.
> 
> Be nice if someone upped the ante and delivered a home run. While I love mw07 and mtw both have unforgivable flaws.



I think it will take another year before we get a product which combines flawless usability (AirPod) and good audio/isolation characteristics (MTW, MW07, maybe E8).

For now only Apple still seems to fully master the technological aspect, but they are not interested in competing with the likes of Sennheiser in terms of the audio aspect. Who knows, they might release are decent option under the Beats brand with the Apple tech expertise and better than AirPods audio ... not exactly a Beats fan here and not holding my breath for it to happen, just saying it could be a possibility.


----------



## Zeo-Gold92

so I'm after a pair of wireless iems (true wireless or with cable) to use with my hidizs ap80, I have seen a few but not sure what would be a good set at a price point around $100AUD (if possible). I've seen the enacfire future and they look good. I'm just after something with a good sound and connection , a good battery and that's not bass shy at all (I listen to hip hop and rock mostly with some edm thrown in.) I will mostly use them for bike riding through town and around. Am I asking too much at this price?


----------



## claud W

Just bought a set of Ikanzi BT IEMS on Amazon to see how good the low end ( $50ish) of this tech is doing. They say that they are BT 5.0.


----------



## LajostheHun (Mar 29, 2019)

Flawless product from Apple? LMAO! There are tons of alternatives to the Airpod right now for fraction of the price.


----------



## Slater (Mar 29, 2019)

Hey QS1/T1C owners:

What process do you use when you’re done listening to the buds?

Do you hold the buttons down until they make the ‘power off chime’, then put them in their charge case?

Or do you just pop them out of your ears and right into the charge case?

I have been just popping them out of my ears and right into their case. But today I noticed that as soon as they went into the case, they lit up red (like they were charging), but then ~30 seconds later they flashed white and I heard the ‘power on chime’ and they connected to my phone. Then ~30 seconds later they disconnected from my phone and lit up red (like they were charging), and repeated the white flashing/connect/disconnect thing in an endless cycle.

What’s that all about? Is there something I’m doing wrong?


----------



## DigDub

Slater said:


> Hey QS1/T1C owners:
> 
> What process do you use when you’re done listening to the buds?
> 
> ...


They should stay red in the case and the red light will go off once they are fully charged. Maybe you can try changing the cable, it seems like it is charging the buds intermittently.


----------



## Slater (Mar 29, 2019)

DigDub said:


> They should stay red in the case and the red light will go off once they are fully charged. Maybe you can try changing the cable, it seems like it is charging the buds intermittently.



Sorry I didn’t clarify.

The behavior I described above is only with no cable attached to the case. Just the case by itself, like if they were in my pocket or a backpack or in my car’s cup holder.

Once I attach the charge case to the cable (to charge the case), the buds behave normally (ie red while charging and then white briefly to indicate the buds are fully charged, and then no lights at all).


----------



## Bartig

Slater said:


> Hey QS1/T1C owners:
> 
> What process do you use when you’re done listening to the buds?
> 
> ...


I had this once. Appeared the case ran out of battery, and thus couldn't power the buds off!


----------



## Dcell7 (Mar 29, 2019)

webvan said:


> Thanks, what other TWEs do you have to compare them to ?
> You said they came with two types of tips, siicone and foam is it ? It seems you found it difficult to get a good seal ?



I also have the QCY T1C. Go for QCY if you want a more balanced sound. Go for the Tiso if you want a tad more bass and fun. The Tiso comes with 2 kinds of silicon tips. No foamies. It wasn’t really hard to get a seal. It is just that it is not very obvious how to put them your ears compared to the QCY. So i did it wrong the first few times.



chinmie said:


> how is it sound compared to the T1C? which one do you like better?



I like the sound of Tiso better but the QCY is easier to use cos the buttons are bigger.


----------



## Slater

Bartig said:


> I had this once. Appeared the case ran out of battery, and thus couldn't power the buds off!



Ah gotcha. How do you know if the case is out of battery? Is there a low battery light? Or is this crazy behavior the telltale sign?


----------



## d3myz

mikp said:


> https://www.joybuy.com/600887661.html#none
> 
> one click away.....
> 
> also the qcy t3 with volume adjust is coming soon, too bad it looks like the apple ones



Thanks for the link, I just picked a pair of these up with the larger charging case. 19.99 is a great price.


----------



## Slater

mikp said:


> the qcy t3 with volume adjust is coming soon, too bad it looks like the apple ones



I’m hoping these covers will be useful for a few EarPods style earphones I have (not TW, but wired).

In theory, they should help improve fit/stability, and also provide an ‘iem like’ seal resulting in better sound.


----------



## KarimLeVallois

Slater said:


> I’m hoping these covers will be useful for a few EarPods style earphones I have (not TW, but wired).
> 
> In theory, they should help improve fit/stability, and also provide an ‘iem like’ seal resulting in better sound.



Interesting! Let us know how you get on.


----------



## chinmie

Slater said:


> Ah gotcha. How do you know if the case is out of battery? Is there a low battery light? Or is this crazy behavior the telltale sign?



unfortunately no low battery indicator on the case. with most of my TWS, they exhibit the same behavior  that is the earpiece would turn on and connect to my device as soon as the case ran out of power


----------



## hifi80sman

chinmie said:


> unfortunately no low battery indicator on the case. with most of my TWS, they exhibit the same behavior  that is the earpiece would turn on and connect to my device as soon as the case ran out of power


This is prevalent with many of the Chi-Fi TWEs.  After the MTW update, it has not connected to my phone when the case runs out of juice, but the case on the MTW still runs out of power, albeit slower than it did before.  There is still also power drain from the eabuds, but again, slower than before.  After a few days, you may want to plug in.


----------



## Spamateur

LajostheHun said:


> Flawless product from Apple? LMAO! There are tons of alternatives to the Airpod right now for fraction of the price.



He was specifically referring to the functionality on the of the AirPods. I'm not an Apple user, but my wife is and has the AirPods. I have to say they are so rock solid reliable, the mic background noise cancelling is amazing (she called me while driving and I couldn't even tell), and the gestures and connection are stellar (which is no surprise considering the connectivity hardware is proprietary). They're certainly subpar in sound quality, isolation, etc. but it's hard to argue that it isn't a solid product when it comes to "it just works," especially since the price is significantly lower than any of the big boys on the market.


----------



## chinmie

hifi80sman said:


> This is prevalent with many of the Chi-Fi TWEs.  After the MTW update, it has not connected to my phone when the case runs out of juice, but the case on the MTW still runs out of power, albeit slower than it did before.  There is still also power drain from the eabuds, but again, slower than before.  After a few days, you may want to plug in.



yup, the earin and wf-1000x also discharge slowly when not in use. i forgot about the jabra, but i think even if it discharges  it went much slower


----------



## hifi80sman

Spamateur said:


> He was specifically referring to the functionality on the of the AirPods. I'm not an Apple user, but my wife is and has the AirPods. I have to say they are so rock solid reliable, the mic background noise cancelling is amazing (she called me while driving and I couldn't even tell), and the gestures and connection are stellar (which is no surprise considering the connectivity hardware is proprietary). They're certainly subpar in sound quality, isolation, etc. but it's hard to argue that it isn't a solid product when it comes to "it just works," especially since the price is significantly lower than any of the big boys on the market.


100% agree.  They do not excel in SQ or isolation, but most people that have them don't want or care about that anyway.  For everything else, they set a very high bar.  For the record, I still am not a fan of them, but respect their prowess in many key areas.


----------



## hifi80sman

Slater said:


> I’m hoping these covers will be useful for a few EarPods style earphones I have (not TW, but wired).
> 
> In theory, they should help improve fit/stability, and also provide an ‘iem like’ seal resulting in better sound.


Now you're going to make me buy AirPods just out of curiosity to see if I can "mod" them to be better!  Goshdarnit!


----------



## Bob24 (Mar 29, 2019)

Slater said:


> I’m hoping these covers will be useful for a few EarPods style earphones I have (not TW, but wired).
> 
> In theory, they should help improve fit/stability, and also provide an ‘iem like’ seal resulting in better sound.



Better isolation yes, but better sound is a matter of taste. Earphones drivers which are tuned for an open design might have overpowering bass and not sound very open if you use with in ear ear tips.


----------



## Slater

hifi80sman said:


> Now you're going to make me buy AirPods just out of curiosity to see if I can "mod" them to be better!  Goshdarnit!



Well, be aware that you have to remove them every time you want to charge them.

Plus they might be totally crap. So if you want to wait until mine come, I can at least tell you if they’re good or bad on wired versions like the EarPods and MEMT T5.


----------



## Slater

Bob24 said:


> Better isolation yes, but better sound is a matter of taste. Earphones drivers which are tuned for an open design might have overpowering bass and not sound very open if you use with in ear ear tips.



Agreed.

I’ll figure that out when they come. I have ways to retune them using vents to get the original open sound back. But I won’t know anything until they arrive.


----------



## hifi80sman

Slater said:


> Well, be aware that you have to remove them every time you want to charge them.
> 
> Plus they might be totally crap. So if you want to wait until mine come, I can at least tell you if they’re good or bad on wired versions like the EarPods and MEMT T5.


I'm definitely going to wait.  Looking forward to the feedback.


----------



## mikp

webvan said:


> Thanks, I guess I'll give the Tiso i4 a miss then in spite of it's $20 price on AE right now. Sticking to my "next TWE will be a QC5100 with ANC" decision



Same here..just waiting for the 5100 with apt-x and anc. The anc has +6db for ambient mode, who knows how well that works on some of the tws. Just has to be careful since its up to the manufacturer what they implement with the chip. Maybe too much to ask for multipoint.

So far the 65t and mavins work fine,+some cheap chinese ones. Used to have single bt earbuds tucked away in my jackets, easier with some cheap tws that functions as mono.


----------



## Bartig

chinmie said:


> yup, the earin and wf-1000x also discharge slowly when not in use. i forgot about the jabra, but i think even if it discharges  it went much slower


The T1C holds the charge quit a while, I found. Whereas other buds just deplete in the charger.


----------



## Bob24

Just received the MTW today - from batch Amazon received in stock a bit over a week ago. They come with firmware 1.23 and the iOS app doesn’t offer any firmware update. 

Is that normal? :-S


----------



## clerkpalmer

Bob24 said:


> Just received the MTW today - from batch Amazon received in stock a bit over a week ago. They come with firmware 1.23 and the iOS app doesn’t offer any firmware update.
> 
> Is that normal? :-S


Apparently. Mine won’t update past 1.23 either. Others seem to be reporting 1.25 on iOS.


----------



## dweaver

I set up my iPad and they updated from that. Could not update them from my S9.


clerkpalmer said:


> Apparently. Mine won’t update past 1.23 either. Others seem to be reporting 1.25 on iOS.


----------



## assassin10000 (Mar 29, 2019)

clerkpalmer said:


> Apparently. Mine won’t update past 1.23 either. Others seem to be reporting 1.25 on iOS.





dweaver said:


> I set up my iPad and they updated from that. Could not update them from my S9.



Maybe everyone should stop by an apple store and borrow their ipad to update? 

Anyways IIRC isn't the update only available thru apple and hasn't made it to the android app?



The leather punches I ordered showed up today. They work great to mod the earbud foams I'm using on the Sabbat X12 Pro. Used the 4mm size.


----------



## LajostheHun

Spamateur said:


> He was specifically referring to the functionality on the of the AirPods. I'm not an Apple user, but my wife is and has the AirPods. I have to say they are so rock solid reliable, the mic background noise cancelling is amazing (she called me while driving and I couldn't even tell), and the gestures and connection are stellar (which is no surprise considering the connectivity hardware is proprietary). They're certainly subpar in sound quality, isolation, etc. but it's hard to argue that it isn't a solid product when it comes to "it just works," especially since the price is significantly lower than any of the big boys on the market.


Rtings.com have a review on them, their objective measurements including the microphone in noisy environment is less then stellar to put it mildly. Like I said their alleged superior performance has been matched by competitors for far less.


----------



## nc8000

Bartig said:


> The T1C holds the charge quit a while, I found. Whereas other buds just deplete in the charger.



I didn’t use my Earin M2 for about 4 weeks and the case still held about 2/3 charge and the buds were fully charged at the end of those 4 weeks


----------



## Bob24

clerkpalmer said:


> Apparently. Mine won’t update past 1.23 either. Others seem to be reporting 1.25 on iOS.



And you're on iOS right? Strange that some are seeing the update and others not while on the same platform.

Was your pair purchased recently? (I am wondering if there could be different revisions of the hardware)


----------



## chinmie

this is new:
https://www.kickstarter.com/project...orlds-first-3-in-1-convertible-earbud/rewards


----------



## Bob24 (Mar 30, 2019)

dweaver said:


> I set up my iPad and they updated from that. Could not update them from my S9.



Tried the app on my iPad ... no update either :-/

Must be something else.


----------



## webvan

chinmie said:


> this is new:
> https://www.kickstarter.com/project...orlds-first-3-in-1-convertible-earbud/rewards


Looks interesting but not convinced by the add-ons. Also they're lying about the competition, the 65t specs are incorrect!

@assassin10000 - nice mod. Do you keep the extra bass that the foam brings to the X12?


----------



## Bartig

chinmie said:


> this is new:
> https://www.kickstarter.com/project...orlds-first-3-in-1-convertible-earbud/rewards


Hope and think we will see this more often, an attachable cable to ensure you won't lose the earbuds while sporting.


----------



## RobinFood (Mar 30, 2019)

Well, I tried the earpod covers I found at the dollar store on the Sabbat X12 Pro, and I guess I'm out a dollar now.
The good is that it could close the case with the covers on. It increased the seal and the bass response well, but the fit was less good. It didn't go into the ear as much, and some details were lost. I could actually press the top of the ear tip down and got an insane bass response. It was very close to the WI-SP600N levels of sub bass, but it killed the mids and made everything muddy. Not much detail anymore. Without pressing I think the bass might be still similar, but details and fit is much better. It just fits deeper and better in the ear...





I then tried to put the rubber things that came with the Sabbat together with the earpod covers, hoping the ear hooks might hold it in for nice extra bass, but it worked less well than just the covers by themselves.





In conclusion, they sound best with nothing on them. Muted highs and details, a little weak separation, but, decent bass. Not much that can be improved on them though, they are just so comfy (the most comfy I own in all my gear...) and still have a satisfying bass and clear mids. I think they did everything they could to tune them with the hardware they had. I must have used them about 30 hours in the last week and fell asleep with them on 2 or 3 times.


----------



## mikp

webvan said:


> Looks interesting but not convinced by the add-ons. Also they're lying about the competition, the 65t specs are incorrect!
> 
> @assassin10000 - nice mod. Do you keep the extra bass that the foam brings to the X12?


Not a word about who is behind it. I predict angry comments in December after delays. Have saved plenty TWS crowdfunds campaigns, fun reading the comments .


----------



## Rickyearl

Left both MW07 and MTW alone for 8 days with a full charge. MTW is on 1.25 firmware. Plugged both cases in.  MW07 buds and case showed fully charged in less than 3 minutes.  MTW is at 45 min and counting, still charging.  So that problem is not “fixed.”

BUT the IEMs themselves weren’t dead - they were at 20%. So I guess that’s _some _improvement.


----------



## Bob24 (Mar 30, 2019)

One more question for MTW owners.

When I take them out of their case, they not only power up and connect to my iPhone (or latest known device), but music playback starts automatically. So the Apple Music app would kick off and resume playing the last song I was listing to.

I don’t really like that as because I put the earbuds on doesn’t necessarily mean I way music to start immediately, and most of the time i don’t want to resume with the same thing anyway (maybe I want another song, a podcast, or to watch a video).

Is it the normal behaviour and is there a way to disable it (I might have missed it, but didn’t see this mentioned in the app).


----------



## Bartig (Mar 30, 2019)

Wow, these Bluedio T-Elf are so tiny I think these will fall out of my ear sometime. The fit  comes very, very precise. And the left earpiece does disconnect with the right one quite a lot in the first minutes.

So yeah, not that great so far. Shame, because it sounds quite clear, with a fat but non overpowering bass and upfront vocals.


----------



## howdy

Bob24 said:


> One more question for MTW owners.
> 
> When I take them out of their case, they not only power up and connect to my iPhone (or latest known device), but music playback starts automatically. So the Apple Music app would kick off resume playing the last song I was listing to.
> 
> ...


My MTW have never done what you said. Maybe there is a setting for that. I usually tell mine to play music on Tidal and it does it but never on its own.


----------



## Bob24

howdy said:


> My MTW have never done what you said. Maybe there is a setting for that. I usually tell mine to play music on Tidal and it does it but never on its own.



Thanks. Actually I just figured it out and it’s a bit silly. When I put them on I press on them a little bit with my fingers to secure them in my ears ... and as I do that it records a single tap on the left bud and triggers a play/pause action. I guess I’ll get used to this and lock them in differently


----------



## SuperLuigi

Bartig said:


> Wow, these Bluedio T-Elf are so tiny I think these will fall out of my ear sometime. The fit  comes very, very precise. And the left earpiece does disconnected with the right one quite a lot in the first minutes.
> 
> So yeah, not that great so far. Shame, because it sounds quite clear, with a fat but non overpowering bass and upfront vocals.



Thanks for sharing. I've been wondering about these myself. I find bluedio to be very hit or miss. I've been very impressed there bluedio TM for the price so was hoping this would also be a success. Guess not.


----------



## assassin10000

webvan said:


> @assassin10000 - nice mod. Do you keep the extra bass that the foam brings to the X12?



Yes, exactly why it's done. Better seal and more bass without muffling the mids/highs. 

That's why 'donut' foams came about for earbuds. Same theory but I offset the hole to expose the earpod port.


----------



## webvan

ok I've ordered a 4mm punch thingy on AE for 50 cents, I'll give it a try


----------



## Slater

Bartig said:


> Wow, these Bluedio T-Elf are so tiny I think these will fall out of my ear sometime. The fit  comes very, very precise. And the left earpiece does disconnected with the right one quite a lot in the first minutes.
> 
> So yeah, not that great so far. Shame, because it sounds quite clear, with a fat but non overpowering bass and upfront vocals.



Glad I skipped the Bluedios.

Thanks for being the guinea pig on


----------



## Dcell7

Slater said:


> Glad I skipped the Bluedios.
> 
> Thanks for being the guinea pig on



He is taking many hits for the team


----------



## dweaver (Mar 31, 2019)

Galaxy Bud update

Having used this for a couple days I find I really like that I can pull these from my ears and throw them in my pocket (not case) and just put them back in my ears at will. I got 12 hours of use with occasional playing of music throughout the day. Great feature!

The case is a bit fiddly for putting in the buds but nicely informative and I love the wireless charging.

So Samsung does not use the same technology as Sennheiser where it passes signals through the body. This makes the Samsung more versatile (single bud in ear still works) but makes them more susceptible to interference. But nothing as bad as the WF1000 when it was released. I get the odd pop or fizzle but nothing serious.

I love that I can simply do things like say "Ok google call xxx" and it dials the number without me having to waste a touch gesture to accomplish that fact.

Talking with wife she thought it was OK most of the time but muffled at times. I was walking on downtown city street with wind around me and occasional heavy traffic. The muffled sound happened with heavy traffic. So I assume the buds switched to internal mic due to noise and she thought that weird sounding. So the internal mic makes the voice sound weird. When on outside mic she noticed wind sound but since when was also walking outside she was not sure if the wind was on her end or mine.

These things are damned comfortable and have a decent low profile (no Frankenstein bolts!!) Lol.


----------



## cityle (Mar 30, 2019)

Received my ATH-CKR7TW yesterday. They're decpetive. It doesn't sound at all like an Audio-Technica product.

edit: They have more emphasis on the bass, but less on the trebles and there is a dip in the mid. So string instruments sounds really nice, are sharp, and bass-oriented music is all good, but female vocal are not their at all. Listening to Kalafina, the girls' voices just seem distant and veiled. Coming from Audio-Technica who is known to shine in female vocal, it's deceptive as hell.

And they really required a good seal. Without the proper seal they just sound off. Personally, I've found my combination to be the small tips with the 3D-loop, but earbuds loop does not play nicely at all with my ears, so it is not comfortable after a while.


----------



## Bartig

Update on the Bluedio T-Elf: they shut off when put back in the case. Like they should. However, when the right earpiece is fully charged, it reconnects itself with your source again - thus stealing the sound from your source and draining it's own battery!

Who the f*kc made this up? Bluedio took months to come with a truly wireless and they just didn't test it properly.

So there we have it: fit, pairing and connectivity issues.

Can't remember when I gave a one star rating on AliExpress the last time, but here we go.


----------



## chinmie

Bartig said:


> However, when the right earpiece is fully charged, it reconnects itself with your source again



to be fair, they did state that feature on the description  so i think they consider that as a positive thing. that one feature is in fact what kept me from buying the bluedio, because i agree with you: it is a very silly feature


----------



## Slater (Mar 30, 2019)

Bartig said:


> Update on the Bluedio T-Elf: they shut off when put back in the case. Like they should. However, when the right earpiece is fully charged, it reconnects itself with your source again - thus stealing the sound from your source and draining it's own battery!
> 
> Who the f*kc made this up? Bluedio took months to come with a truly wireless and they just didn't test it properly.
> 
> ...



This is not at all surprising. I don't know what on earth happened at Bluedio, but starting about 2 years ago (with the T4 and pretty much everything afterwards) they're like a sinking ship.

Everything is rushed out, half-baked, buggy, and mediocre. Not that they were a premium brand to begin with, but I think they eventually could have been. They were on their way up and up, and then starting with the T4 they just started going down and down.

I had that T-Elf in my shopping cart for the Ali sale, but my gut just told me not to pull the trigger and I just deleted it from my cart. Then your last t-elf post hit and I knew I made the right choice.

Meanwhile I'm totally loving the QCY QS1.

BTW, T-Elf is a stupid name too. I know they like using T in front of their stuff, but how about T-Wireless, or TW1 or something. But T-Elf?!



chinmie said:


> to be fair, they did state that feature on the description  so i think they consider that as a positive thing. that one feature is in fact what kept me from buying the bluedio, because i agree with you: it is a very silly feature



1 of the 2 buds reconnecting while it's in out of my ears and sitting in the charge case. They consider that a feature?

That's like taking a crap and the turds flush away down the toilet and out the sewage pipe. But then the pipe makes a u-turn in front of your house and empties out right on your front porch. Who would want that?

bahaha


----------



## chinmie

Slater said:


> 1 of the 2 buds reconnecting while it's in out of my ears and sitting in the charge case. They consider that a feature?
> 
> That's like taking a crap and the turds flush away down the toilet and out the sewage pipe. But then the pipe makes a u-turn in front of your house and empties out right on your front porch. Who would want that?
> 
> bahaha



obviously they didn't think it through 
@Bartig  how is the sound of the bluedio compared to the "golden standard" T1C?


----------



## albau

After I sent back T1c I’ve got myself some Anbes 359. They have less neutral but more bassy sound with a little better soundstage, similarly decent mids and highs with some detail. All in all, like with T1, SQ is comparable, if not better, than 65t, but they are in a lesser league than MW07. $15 over T1 buys you volume control, much better magnetic case that doesn’t leave buds exposed, USB-C, more solid construction and better quality shiny plastic. Speaking of shiny - UFO shaped case also lights up like the one. Buttons on buds are stiff but workable. On par with T1 buds are small and almost weightless, pleasure to wear. They fit my ears better than T1 and have a more ergonomic shape. Charging case in reality feels much smaller and lighter than on photos, looks better as well. It’s a little fiddly to get buds out of magnetic embrace. Also when buds are in the case it’s not really obvious which one is left and which one is right (buds themselves are clearly marked, but on their stomachs). Must admit for $35 I’m really impressed with Anbes 359! Though 65t have an app, transparency mode, auto-pause/play and a better mic I’m not really sure that they are worth over $100 more.


----------



## actorlife

albau said:


> After I sent back T1c I’ve got myself some Anbes 359. They have less neutral but more bassy sound with a little better soundstage, similarly decent mids and highs with some detail. All in all, like with T1, SQ is comparable, if not better, than 65t, but they are in a lesser league than MW07. $15 over T1 buys you volume control, much better magnetic case that doesn’t leave buds exposed, USB-C, more solid construction and better quality shiny plastic. Speaking of shiny - UFO shaped case also lights up like the one. Buttons on buds are stiff but workable. On par with T1 buds are small and almost weightless, pleasure to wear. They fit my ears better than T1 and have a more ergonomic shape. Charging case in reality feels much smaller and lighter than on photos, looks better as well. It’s a little fiddly to get buds out of magnetic embrace. Also when buds are in the case it’s not really obvious which one is left and which one is right (buds themselves are clearly marked, but on their stomachs). Must admit for $35 I’m really impressed with Anbes 359! Though 65t have an app, transparency mode, auto-pause/play and a better mic I’m not really sure that they are worth over $100 more.


Thank you for posting. I agree they are some fantastic for the price. The SQ is top notch in the tuning. It's my favorite out of the 4 I have and the others sound great, but these are just so good. Spaceships rule.


----------



## Chineseboy555

albau said:


> After I sent back T1c I’ve got myself some Anbes 359. They have less neutral but more bassy sound with a little better soundstage, similarly decent mids and highs with some detail. All in all, like with T1, SQ is comparable, if not better, than 65t, but they are in a lesser league than MW07. $15 over T1 buys you volume control, much better magnetic case that doesn’t leave buds exposed, USB-C, more solid construction and better quality shiny plastic. Speaking of shiny - UFO shaped case also lights up like the one. Buttons on buds are stiff but workable. On par with T1 buds are small and almost weightless, pleasure to wear. They fit my ears better than T1 and have a more ergonomic shape. Charging case in reality feels much smaller and lighter than on photos, looks better as well. It’s a little fiddly to get buds out of magnetic embrace. Also when buds are in the case it’s not really obvious which one is left and which one is right (buds themselves are clearly marked, but on their stomachs). Must admit for $35 I’m really impressed with Anbes 359! Though 65t have an app, transparency mode, auto-pause/play and a better mic I’m not really sure that they are worth over $100 more.


I got my anbes 359 too.. Super amazing with this tiny tws. super cool Sound quality with budget!!! bass so amazing , mid and hi so good clear also not too sharp ... after burn in smooth than I expect, and love this charging case super tiny but fast charge ... pairing so pretty quickly . latency almost zero !! HILIGHT I have so many tws , all of tws have poor and bad quality of microphone!!! BUT “Anbes 359 microphone quality the best that I ever had !!! “ thank you for recommend me to bought anbes 359 .. maybe you not pay much to get something goood!


----------



## Bartig

chinmie said:


> obviously they didn't think it through
> @Bartig  how is the sound of the bluedio compared to the "golden standard" T1C?


Almost unfortunately, the Bluedio sounds really good. It has a natural soundstage, doesn't lean too much on the bass so details in the mids, vocals and highs come out pretty nice. Yes - it sounds natural. On the T1c you get tonality, on the T-Elf you get a little more soundstage.

Shame then that the rest is so bad.


----------



## BigZ12

https://ideaing.com/product/anbes-359-true-wireless-earbuds
Anbes 359 for $22.19 with coupon!?! (I couldn't test if the coupon works, because they don't ship to Norway  )


----------



## chompchomps (Mar 31, 2019)

So after a few days of owning the T1C, I felt the tips are too soft and it doesn't result in a good fit. I found by replacing them with other tips, it will be too long due to the short flange distance and the individual buds won't be able to charge. So I used some spare tips from my VE Biggie and Smalls and just cut the bore of the tips slightly to shorten the red part. and they now result in a MUCH MUCH better fit with deeper bass and more sub bass extension. With the tips shorter, it is also possible to charge normally by just slipping it into the case.

For those with the T1C, QS1, I suggest this mini mod to improve the sound.


----------



## actorlife (Mar 31, 2019)

BigZ12 said:


> https://ideaing.com/product/anbes-359-true-wireless-earbuds
> Anbes 359 for $22.19 with coupon!?! (I couldn't test if the coupon works, because they don't ship to Norway  )


I tried to use the coupon, but looks like the sale is over on amazon. 
https://slickdeals.net/f/12864448-w...-earphone-22-19-at-amazon-a-grade-on-fakespot


----------



## albau (Mar 31, 2019)

albau said:


> After I sent back T1c I’ve got myself some Anbes 359. They have less neutral but more bassy sound with a little better soundstage, similarly decent mids and highs with some detail. All in all, like with T1, SQ is comparable, if not better, than 65t, but they are in a lesser league than MW07. $15 over T1 buys you volume control, much better magnetic case that doesn’t leave buds exposed, USB-C, more solid construction and better quality shiny plastic. Speaking of shiny - UFO shaped case also lights up like the one. Buttons on buds are stiff but workable. On par with T1 buds are small and almost weightless, pleasure to wear. They fit my ears better than T1 and have a more ergonomic shape. Charging case in reality feels much smaller and lighter than on photos, looks better as well. It’s a little fiddly to get buds out of magnetic embrace. Also when buds are in the case it’s not really obvious which one is left and which one is right (buds themselves are clearly marked, but on their stomachs). Must admit for $35 I’m really impressed with Anbes 359! Though 65t have an app, transparency mode, auto-pause/play and a better mic I’m not really sure that they are worth over $100 more.


Just to add after some usage at the gym and on the street: On my S9+ they use AAC. Volume goes louder than T1, 65t and MW07. Connectivity in terms of drops so far is on par with 65t, which is decent, better than T1 and MW07. Volume control with double clicks is quite inconvenient, especially to dial it down because left bud's button is noticeably stiffer than the right one. There's also an annoying delay and then volume jumps in huge steps. At times bass is too much for me, bleeds into lower mids and muddles them. I also wish for more detail in treble. That all compared to 65t and T1, all three are totally out of MW07 league, so I'm even not comparing. Thus in terms of SQ: Anbes < 65t/T1 <<<< MW07. As a value and as a package, and if SQ isn't top priority, above is totally reversed.


----------



## zerolight

What's the consensus on the Sennheiser MTW now that folks have had them a while. Considering these, MW07, or Jabra 65t as a commute earphone. My 1000x over ears are taking up too much space in my travel light 3 day backpack.

It's a shame the FW1000x seems so unreliable as it's gotten quite cheap now.

Pitty can't hear any of these locally - shops just don't allow it in Glasgow, UK.

edit. IPhone XS AAC usage.


----------



## LajostheHun

actorlife said:


> Thank you for posting. I agree they are some fantastic for the price. The SQ is top notch in the tuning. It's my favorite out of the 4 I have and the others sound great, but these are just so good. Spaceships rule.



I just sent mine back, the buds were keep reconnecting to one another and making that awful chirping/ringing noise while doing it. It was fun while it lasted though.
Ordered these now, see/hear what happens. 

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07C4WCPG6/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1


----------



## The Socialist Nerd

What do folks think of these: https://www.masterdynamic.com/products/mw07-true-wireless-earphones?

Honestly those are the only ones I would consider up to snuff as audiophile BT IEM's.


----------



## nc8000

The Socialist Nerd said:


> What do folks think of these: https://www.masterdynamic.com/products/mw07-true-wireless-earphones?
> 
> Honestly those are the only ones I would consider up to snuff as audiophile BT IEM's.



There is lots of info in this thread about them. They are considered amongst the top based on sq but let down a bit by short battery life and perhaps only average microphone


----------



## clerkpalmer

The Socialist Nerd said:


> What do folks think of these: https://www.masterdynamic.com/products/mw07-true-wireless-earphones?
> 
> Honestly those are the only ones I would consider up to snuff as audiophile BT IEM's.



Most people agree that they have the best sq of the current tw offerings.  Some (not me) prefer sennheiser mtw. Lots written about mw07 here.


----------



## actorlife (Mar 31, 2019)

LajostheHun said:


> I just sent mine back, the buds were keep reconnecting to one another and making that awful chirping/ringing noise while doing it. It was fun while it lasted though.
> Ordered these now, see/hear what happens.
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07C4WCPG6/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1


I guess you got a bad batch. No issues with mine. Maybe try another pair from another supplier.


----------



## d3myz

BigZ12 said:


> https://ideaing.com/product/anbes-359-true-wireless-earbuds
> Anbes 359 for $22.19 with coupon!?! (I couldn't test if the coupon works, because they don't ship to Norway  )


Unfortunately, I was unable to get the code to work .


----------



## d3myz

Has Anyone tried the Anbes D42's?


----------



## albau (Mar 31, 2019)

The Socialist Nerd said:


> What do folks think of these: https://www.masterdynamic.com/products/mw07-true-wireless-earphones?
> 
> Honestly those are the only ones I would consider up to snuff as audiophile BT IEM's.


Those are mentioned every other post for many months here. As a nerd, especially the socialist one, you would love to scroll a hundred pages back . I have mw07 and at least among higher end pure wireless IEMs I’ve heard (65t and E8) they sound the best. But make no mistake, they’re not “audiophile”. Many purists will tell you that IEMs can’t sound audiophile by definition, much less wireless ones. To me mw07 sound extremely engaging with decent clarity and detail, but at best they still sound like a good pair of $100 single dynamic driver wired IEMs. No more, nor less.


----------



## phiemon

Which is, actually, the "best" sounding wireless IEM? Sony? Sennheiser? Bose? Thank you for the reply .


----------



## Slater

phiemon said:


> Which is, actually, the "best" sounding wireless IEM? Sony? Sennheiser? Bose? Thank you for the reply .



I would say take one of 'the best' IEMs, such as CA Andromeda, Kanas Pro, etc, and attach it to a TRN BT20 TW adapter.

I have used my iBasso IT01, Magaosi K5, and Pioneer CH9T all with the TRN BT20 TW adapter, and I'd wager they all sound better than the best TW earphone.

Plus I have the flexibility to change the IEM out with anything in my collection.


----------



## webvan

Don't you get the same horrible hiss with the TRN BT adapters (BT3, BT10 and BT20) as everyone else?


----------



## 05stisilver

webvan said:


> Don't you get the same horrible hiss with the TRN BT adapters (BT3, BT10 and BT20) as everyone else?



The hiss isn't noticeable on all iem's. On my TRN V80's the hiss is horrible but on the Revonext QT2 I can't hear any hiss at all.


----------



## matokt (Apr 1, 2019)

Anbes 359 or QCY T1C or something entirely else?
Dunno really what to expect from that low-budget cost but I want to focus on audio-quality and fit and both seem to be small, just dunno about the SQ.
Maybe something entirely else? Doesnt have to be that low in price. Hard to choose in this jungle


----------



## mjb152

I was thinking of getting some soundpeats Q32 (as I'm in the UK),  then I saw this review ... I just can't see them for sale anywhere.    Anybody come across the Q45 ?
https://soundpeats.wireless-earbuds...-5-0-bluetooth.html?product_id=JFwU_lx4Ca1hlg
https://nerdtechy.com/soundpeats-q45-trueshift-review


----------



## hifi80sman

LajostheHun said:


> I just sent mine back, the buds were keep reconnecting to one another and making that awful chirping/ringing noise while doing it. It was fun while it lasted though.
> Ordered these now, see/hear what happens.
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07C4WCPG6/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1


The Treblab X5 sounds good.  It's a exciting V-shaped signature, but not too V-shaped (ahem, pretty much ALL of Monster's earbuds).  Full controls on the earbuds.  Comfortable, stable fit.  The only reason I returned them, is I'm not a fan of the way they looked when I was wearing them, but that's totally subjective.


----------



## LajostheHun (Apr 1, 2019)

hifi80sman said:


> The Treblab X5 sounds good.  It's a exciting V-shaped signature, but not too V-shaped (ahem, pretty much ALL of Monster's earbuds).  Full controls on the earbuds.  Comfortable, stable fit.  The only reason I returned them, is I'm not a fan of the way they looked when I was wearing them, but that's totally subjective.


Thanks, I use EQ on all of my connected headphones via the music apps I use on the phone., but I usually "agree" better  with U/V shaped response vs the complete flat or neutral ones.
Question: Can you summon Google Assistant via any of the buttons or combinations of them?


----------



## scrane (Apr 1, 2019)

Market share: Wireless earphones

https://www.counterpointresearch.co...es-market-reaches-12-5-million-units-q4-2018/


----------



## BudConlin

alee said:


> No. I had to mess around a bit before it worked. I initially tried to do the app pairing first and it didn’t work right so I deleted, started over and that’s when I saw that I ended up with 2 devices.



The "LE-Momentum TW" bluetooth device you see is the left earpiece.  Yes, it tangentially relates to the SmartControl app as the app controls features relevant to using both earpieces, e.g. equalizer.  I encourage anyone with questions to reach out to the Sennheiser tech support folks for add'l info/answers.


----------



## Slater (Apr 2, 2019)

webvan said:


> Don't you get the same horrible hiss with the TRN BT adapters (BT3, BT10 and BT20) as everyone else?





05stisilver said:


> *The hiss isn't noticeable on all iem's. On my TRN V80's the hiss is horrible but on the Revonext QT2 I can't hear any hiss at all.*



Exactly. Hiss is only on extremely sensitive IEMs (which can hiss on a lot of DAPs and phones anyways).

What you may be referring to it the 'white noise' sound. It is ONLY present when you pause music, and it is VERY low volume (barely perceptible), and it is NOT there when you play music (even at low volume).

The point is that the "best" TW can be your own "best" configuration. No waiting on companies to fix flaky firmware problems, Frankenstein looking bolts coming from your ears, battery draining issues, charge cases that don't fit in your pocket, waiting on crowd funding false promises, etc. It's simply another option you may have not considered.

I like my 2-pin TRN BT20 so much I bought and use the mmcx one. The only downside is the ear guides may not be perfect for every ear or every IEM. They can be easily reformed with a hair dryer or heat gun though. For example, the 2-pin one fits an aluminum quad driver IEM like it was designed for it, and on the mmcx version it fits the ibasso IT01 like it was made for it. Since both IEMs sound great with the BT20, it is unnecessary to reform the ear guides.


----------



## scotvl

webvan said:


> Don't you get the same horrible hiss with the TRN BT adapters (BT3, BT10 and BT20) as everyone else?


I haven't heard any of the TRN Bluetooth adapters but the ear studio es100 sounds as good if not better than the quad dac from my LG G7.


----------



## Slater (Apr 1, 2019)

scotvl said:


> I haven't heard any of the TRN Bluetooth adapters but the ear studio es100 sounds as good if not better than the quad dac from my LG G7.



I've never heard the ear studio es100, but from I have read there would be no comparison. The aptX, balanced output, app, EQ, built in amp, etc. No contest.

I specifically mentioned the BT20 because it classifies as TW, unlike the other TRN bluetooth cables (of which there are loads of Bluetooth cables from many manufacturers).

The BT20 is unique in that it is a TW adapter that has a removable interface that allows one to connect a multitude of IEMs. I really hope we see other competitors come out with a similar product. However, it is not perfect and I have my own complaints about the BT20. But then again, nothing is perfect.


----------



## david8613

any other high end truewireless coming out soon?


----------



## Slater

scrane said:


> Market share: Wireless earphones
> 
> https://www.counterpointresearch.co...es-market-reaches-12-5-million-units-q4-2018/



Very cool!

My thoughts:

1. I'm sad and disappointed that AirPods have 60% of market share. That just tells me that more and more manufacturers are going to try and copy their recipe - poor isolation, mediocre sound, with the same earpod shape.
2. I'm impressed to see not only QCY as a brand make the top 6 worldwide, but the T1 model specifically. Very impressive when the T1 and it's variations can be bought for $10-$15.
3. I think I'm going to have to check out some of the others on that list.


----------



## Bob24

Slater said:


> Very cool!
> 
> My thoughts:
> 
> 1. I'm sad and disappointed that AirPods have 60% of market share. That just tells me that more and more manufacturers are going to try and copy their recipe - poor isolation, mediocre sound, with the same earpod shape.



Maybe bad manufacturers will. If they are good manufacturers, they’d better copy the rest of the recipe: small size, decent battery life, confortable to wear, near flawless Bluetooth connectivity, and best in class ease of use with multiple devices (in this case, as long as they are Apple devices). 

Also I think AirPod figures are inherent to Apple being an early starter on that market. They got into it very early and nailed the usability aspect first time around. Many other manufacturers still have usability/connectivity issues  (Sony in particular seems to struggle) or didn’t have a product widely available at the time of that study (RHA and Sennheiser for exemple were only launching their TW products during Q4).


----------



## chinmie

browsing AE yesterday and these two caught my eye:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/CLA...&terminal_id=fccfab85825a47e5ad87c4ae3a46d856


https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Wir...&terminal_id=fccfab85825a47e5ad87c4ae3a46d856

one is similar to the Mifo o5 in design (ipx7 waterproofing, metal case, huge case battery} but with touch controls, and the other one claimed 10 hours single charge use,the first that i know from chifi front


----------



## david8613

can we not derail this thread wired Bluetooth headphones, please lets keep this about true wireless.


----------



## thrgk

I got the Anbes 359 but for some reason the left one doesn't glow blue like the right one. I've pressed, held the mfb and still nothing. So I put them in the case and plugged the case in overnight but still nothing. Anyone have this issue before? I ordered from Amazon and seller was Shenhen-us(or something).

Thanks guys!


----------



## Slater (Apr 2, 2019)

david8613 said:


> can we not derail this thread wired Bluetooth headphones, please lets keep this about true wireless.



If you’re referring to the discussion about the TRN BT20, they are true wireless.

http://www.thephonograph.net/trn-bt20-truly-wireless-adapter-review/


----------



## actorlife

Thrgk, Might be a silly question but did you take the plastic piece off on the buds that cover the charging pins when new? If not then yes both should blink blue/red on left bud when taken out. Also make sure each bud is on the right case for L/R. They should light up blue on the side of the case as well.


----------



## d3myz

Slater said:


> If you’re referring to the discussion about the TRN BT20, they are true wireless.
> 
> http://www.thephonograph.net/trn-bt20-truly-wireless-adapter-review/


I saw you mentioned you have the iBasso IT01's? How do they sound with the TRN BT20? do they hiss? I have a pair and I get hiss in 3 different BT cables. This one from Penon Audio is almost unbearable, yet the sound quality is pretty nice. https://penonaudio.com/accessories/earphone-cable/bluetooth/bgvp-m1-mmcx-bluetooth-cable.html. I also have some Tin Audio T2's that I really like for audiobooks, They have a weird form factor, interested to see how the BT20 would work with them, have any experience with them?


----------



## clerkpalmer

d3myz said:


> I saw you mentioned you have the iBasso IT01's? How do they sound with the TRN BT20? do they hiss? I have a pair and I get hiss in 3 different BT cables. This one from Penon Audio is almost unbearable, yet the sound quality is pretty nice. https://penonaudio.com/accessories/earphone-cable/bluetooth/bgvp-m1-mmcx-bluetooth-cable.html. I also have some Tin Audio T2's that I really like for audiobooks, They have a weird form factor, interested to see how the BT20 would work with them, have any experience with them?


The hiss on my trn bt20 is unbearable and renders them utterly useless. I admittedly have not tried many combinations. If anyone is successfully using the bt20 without hiss I would love to hear what iems you are using.


----------



## d3myz

clerkpalmer said:


> The hiss on my trn bt20 is unbearable and renders them utterly useless. I admittedly have not tried many combinations. If anyone is successfully using the bt20 without hiss I would love to hear what iems you are using.


Is this using the IT01s? or which headphones? 2-pin or MMCX?


----------



## thrgk

Your a genius! There was plastic, now they work. Thanks so much man!!!!!! 



actorlife said:


> Thrgk, Might be a silly question but did you take the plastic piece off on the buds that cover the charging pins when new? If not then yes both should blink blue/red on left bud when taken out. Also make sure each bud is on the right case for L/R. They should light up blue on the side of the case as well.


----------



## clerkpalmer

d3myz said:


> Is this using the IT01s? or which headphones? 2-pin or MMCX?


Trn v80. 2 pin.


----------



## actorlife

thrgk said:


> Your a genius! There was plastic, now they work. Thanks so much man!!!!!!


Your welcome. I hope to see your review soon.


----------



## Slater (Apr 2, 2019)

d3myz said:


> I saw you mentioned you have the iBasso IT01's? How do they sound with the TRN BT20? do they hiss? I have a pair and I get hiss in 3 different BT cables. This one from Penon Audio is almost unbearable, yet the sound quality is pretty nice. https://penonaudio.com/accessories/earphone-cable/bluetooth/bgvp-m1-mmcx-bluetooth-cable.html. I also have some Tin Audio T2's that I really like for audiobooks, They have a weird form factor, interested to see how the BT20 would work with them, have any experience with them?





clerkpalmer said:


> The hiss on my trn bt20 is unbearable and renders them utterly useless. I admittedly have not tried many combinations. If anyone is successfully using the bt20 without hiss I would love to hear what iems you are using.





d3myz said:


> Is this using the IT01s? or which headphones? 2-pin or MMCX?



So as to stay on topic, I will only address the (true wireless) BT20 model.

On my 2-pin version, I always use a popular quad driver. On the mmcx I mainly use the ibasso IT01, but I’ve also used the Pioneer CH9T.

If you let me know what IEMs you’re having the issue on, I’ll be happy to try it for you (all my gear is in my profile). I can try the T2 if you want me to (although the fit of the T2 is so finicky it may be an instant fail).

Note that both the IT01 and CH9T aren’t hybrids. Maybe that’s what’s causing your issue? Or perhaps an impedance matching issue?

Anyways, I get zero hiss on all 3. However, as I mentioned before there is a barely perceptible ‘white noise’ static sound, but only when the music is paused.

I get hiss on a few off my ultra sensitive all-BA wired IEMs (when connected to some sources). That’s an actual ‘hisssss’ sound, and it’s present all the time.

The static sound in the BT20 is like a ‘shhhhhhh’ sound, like tuning a radio or old school analog TV static/white noise. And despite it only being present when the music is paused, the sound goes away after 5 seconds. I think it’s a sleep/power saving function.

This is not unique to the BT20, as I’ve heard the same barely perceived ‘white noise’ static sound on other Bluetooth gear.

I don’t know if the BT20 ‘static’ is the same thing you’re hearing (or referring to as hiss).

Hope that helps.


----------



## Slater

clerkpalmer said:


> Trn v80. 2 pin.



I’m willing to bet the issue is the v80 not being a good match for the (total wireless) BT20.

I don’t own the v80, but it is widely reported as having some sort of electrical or grounding design issue. When wired, it even shocks people directly in their ear canal.

Try something other than the v80 and report back


----------



## 435279 (Apr 2, 2019)

I just downloaded an Apr 2nd update to the Sennheiser Smart Control app. Presumably it has all the F/W updates for the MTW. Now, of course they are totally flat in the case so charging them now before applying the update.

Hopefully they are perfect now. 

Edit: version 1.25.0, update can take up to 60 minutes. :-0


----------



## 05stisilver

clerkpalmer said:


> The hiss on my trn bt20 is unbearable and renders them utterly useless. I admittedly have not tried many combinations. If anyone is successfully using the bt20 without hiss I would love to hear what iems you are using.



QT2 no hiss


----------



## clerkpalmer

Cool. How’s the weight in those? Stable enough for gym use.


----------



## Slater (Apr 2, 2019)

clerkpalmer said:


> Cool. How’s the weight in those? Stable enough for gym use.



Absolutely.

The majority of weight goes behind the ear (like some hearing aids). They’re extremely stable. I mountain bike with them, road cycle, hike, parcourse, disc golf, jump rope, etc.

If you wear glasses that have thick ‘Buddy Holly’ retro type frames, the BT20 might get uncomfortable after about 1.5-2 hours. But other than that, they’re great.

One thing to be aware of. Some people have reported an issue when they plug in the micro usb cable. It pushes the socket up inside the shell, which then prevents the control button from functioning. I have not had that issue though.

Also, note that there is no volume button, and the single control button can not be used to skip or rewind a track. It’s onky functions are power, pairing, play, pause, and phone call controls. I don’t know if it also activates Siri or Alexa, as I try and limit the amount of spying the NSA does in my life.


----------



## clerkpalmer

clerkpalmer said:


> Cool. How’s the weight in those? Stable enough for gym use.


Ok. Last question. Is the bass overwhelming?


----------



## Slater (Apr 2, 2019)

clerkpalmer said:


> Ok. Last question. Is the bass overwhelming?



The BT20 comes with no IEM. You add your own IEM.

That’s why I proposed it earlier as the ‘best’ option to the person that asked a few pages back. You want flat and neutral? No problem. Basshead? Absolutely. Balanced and fun? Yup. Treblehead? Gotcha covered. Single dynamics, multi-dynamics, hybrids, multi-BA. All of those are possible, and anything in between.

Between the gobs of 0.78mm and 0.75mm 2-pin, plus mmcx IEMs available, there’s literally thousands of earphones that are theoretically compatible. Some fit better than others, due to the preformed ear guide. But as I previously mentioned, it can be reshaped with *low* heat from a hair dryer or heat gun.


----------



## clerkpalmer

Slater said:


> The BT20 comes with no IEM. You add your own IEM.
> 
> That’s why I proposed it earlier as the ‘best’ option to the person that asked a few pages back. You want flat and neutral? No problem. Basshead? Absolutely. Balanced and fun? Yup. Treblehead? Gotcha covered. Single dynamics, multi-dynamics, hybrids, multi-BA. All of those are possible, and anything in between.
> 
> Between the gobs of 0.78mm and 0.75mm 2-pin, plus mmcx IEMs available, there’s literally thousands of earphones that are theoretically compatible. Some fit better than others, due to the preformed ear guide. But as I previously mentioned, it can be reshaped with *low* heat from a hair dryer or heat gun.





Slater said:


> The BT20 comes with no IEM. You add your own IEM.
> 
> That’s why I proposed it earlier as the ‘best’ option to the person that asked a few pages back. You want flat and neutral? No problem. Basshead? Absolutely. Balanced and fun? Yup. Treblehead? Gotcha covered. Single dynamics, multi-dynamics, hybrids, multi-BA. All of those are possible, and anything in between.
> 
> Between the gobs of 0.78mm and 0.75mm 2-pin, plus mmcx IEMs available, there’s literally thousands of earphones that are theoretically compatible. Some fit better than others, due to the preformed ear guide. But as I previously mentioned, it can be reshaped with *low* heat from a hair dryer or heat gun.



Sorry. Was referring to the qt2 iem referred to above. I have the bt20 already.


----------



## hifi80sman

LajostheHun said:


> Thanks, I use EQ on all of my connected headphones via the music apps I use on the phone., but I usually "agree" better  with U/V shaped response vs the complete flat or neutral ones.
> Question: Can you summon Google Assistant via any of the buttons or combinations of them?


Sorry, not sure.  I'm not a big user of voice assistants.


----------



## howdy

Not really true wireless but wireless. Just got this cable in for my 2nd favorite IEMs. Not sure on the sound yet. Ive had the iSine20 for a few years now and am very familiar with the sound and this is ok but not quite the same level.


----------



## zerolight

@howdy Interesing. I'm torn between my original intent of a commuter wireless earbuds, likely the MTW, or a hotel room earbud in the isine 10 with cypher. How are you enjoying the isine? Any thoughts on the v2 cable?


----------



## howdy

zerolight said:


> @howdy Interesing. I'm torn between my original intent of a commuter wireless earbuds, likely the MTW, or a hotel room earbud in the isine 10 with cypher. How are you enjoying the isine? Any thoughts on the v2 cable?


I have both V1 and V2 Cables and they are really noticeable in sound over the Cipher BT cable. I personally think you'd be happier with the MTW. Plus just walking around my house today the cable fell out twice from the connection port which is unacceptable and I will be contacting Audeze.


----------



## QuadraKev

Measurements for the Galaxy Buds makes them seem like they like a solid sound signature, but they're relatively light on bass. People who have tried them: Would you say they're a solid option?


----------



## DannyBai

I received the qs1 today. Haven’t tested the signal outside but so far indoors, no issues walking around the house. They paired right away and connect when I take them out of the case. The sound is surprisingly good. The clicks to change the music function work more accurately then the touch on the mtw.


----------



## zerolight

howdy said:


> I have both V1 and V2 Cables and they are really noticeable in sound over the Cipher BT cable. I personally think you'd be happier with the MTW. Plus just walking around my house today the cable fell out twice from the connection port which is unacceptable and I will be contacting Audeze.



Thanks Howdy. To be clear I was thinking isine over cipher v2 not Bluetooth and waiting for a next gen wireless IEM (I still have the sound sport wireless non free and MDR-1000x). I sold my K10u last month. 

Is the cable issue you mention, all or just BT. Do the isine over v2 cable hold up? Or should I look elsewhere for a good headset to use direct from iphone XS? If so then maybe I will get MTW in meantime.


----------



## clerkpalmer

Slater said:


> I’m willing to bet the issue is the v80 not being a good match for the (total wireless) BT20.
> 
> I don’t own the v80, but it is widely reported as having some sort of electrical or grounding design issue. When wired, it even shocks people directly in their ear canal.
> 
> Try something other than the v80 and report back


 No shocks to date but I will investigate with a different model.


----------



## 435279

Updating the Sennheiser MTW went without issue. I will be testing them for the rest of the week.

If anybody else has updated to the latest F/W have you noticed a more balanced sound signature, a bit less bass? I haven't used them for a few weeks due to the issues I was having but they sound different, probably just my imagination.


----------



## Nailzs

SteveOliver said:


> Updating the Sennheiser MTW went without issue. I will be testing them for the rest of the week.
> 
> If anybody else has updated to the latest F/W have you noticed a more balanced sound signature, a bit less bass? I haven't used them for a few weeks due to the issues I was having but they sound different, probably just my imagination.


Does the Sennheiser MTW update do anything with aptx HD? I have it downloaded but don't have time before going to work to update the firmware.


----------



## richario

clerkpalmer said:


> The hiss on my trn bt20 is unbearable and renders them utterly useless. I admittedly have not tried many combinations. If anyone is successfully using the bt20 without hiss I would love to hear what iems you are using.



I use the AS10's with the BT20 and love the synergy, zero hiss and great sound. I fully recommend this pairing, it's become my daily driver and favourite combo. They also work well with ZS10 but hiss with ZS6. 
There's lots of Ali / Head-Fi reviews noting the poor pairing with the V80 / BT20, which is kind of unfortunate considering TRN used the V80 in every marketing picture I saw promoting the BT20.


----------



## 435279

Nailzs said:


> Does the Sennheiser MTW update do anything with aptx HD? I have it downloaded but don't have time before going to work to update the firmware.


No only Aptx as far as I can tell. The instructions say you can use them while they are updating. Just don't put them back in the case until the update is finished.


----------



## BigZ12 (Apr 3, 2019)

I just wanted to say I love the Tiso i4 too!
So small and snug in my ears I cannot feel them. Guess I can sleep on the side with these little rascals without feeling them pressed on the pillow. Amazing comfort.
Marginal better sound than QCY I think. The highs are more present / a litt more detailed? Bass a little more reserved, but punchy and deep while the vocals/mids are on par with the T2C.
Wonderful products for $20 both of them. 

Can confirm i4 supports AAC too.
Buttons are good. With the fit in my ears I don't feel I have to push them further in to make the buttons work.
Mic are confirmed good in quiet surroundings.
BT5.0 connection are flawless! Can walk around my 65 m2 apartment without dropouts. (iPhone X)

What baffles me the most? NO noise what so ever... when MTW and E8 had "SBC/NFMI noise" and crackle on the right, the T1C and i4 is absolutely noise free.... again at $20... I love it!

For that price? 10 out of 10!

EDIT: Very nice fit with the Comply True Wireless tips I bought for my returned MTWs. (they were too small for a good seal with the MTWs, but fit the i4 100% in my ears)


----------



## chinmie

BigZ12 said:


> I just wanted to say I love the Tiso i4 too!
> So small and snug in my ears I cannot feel them. Guess I can sleep on the side with these little rascals without feeling them pressed on the pillow. Amazing comfort.
> Marginal better sound than QCY I think. The highs are more present / a litt more detailed? Bass a little more reserved, but punchy and deep while the vocals/mids are on par with the T2C.
> Wonderful products for $20 both of them.
> ...



interesting because your experience with the i4 is different from others, that you find the bass is reserved and the treble more detailed while others find the bass bigger and the treble more rolled off compared to the T1c...

might be because on the i4 you are using smaller tips? also will using other eartips with the i4 fit in the case and charge?


----------



## BigZ12 (Apr 3, 2019)

chinmie said:


> interesting because your experience with the i4 is different from others, that you find the bass is reserved and the treble more detailed while others find the bass bigger and the treble more rolled off compared to the T1c...
> 
> might be because on the i4 you are using smaller tips? also will using other eartips with the i4 fit in the case and charge?


I am using the Comply True Wireless tips with i4. (my review was based when using them and also the second biggest silicon tips that were included)
I use the Comply T-200 with the T2C (1-2mm cut off for comfort and to fit them in the charging case... i guess you saw that in my picture)
The Comply TW tip fits the i4 charging case. I have to push the buds down to make them connect, but just a little nudge. Then they sit in place nicely.


----------



## BigZ12

chinmie said:


> interesting because your experience with the i4 is different from others, that you find the bass is reserved and the treble more detailed while others find the bass bigger and the treble more rolled off compared to the T1c...
> 
> might be because on the i4 you are using smaller tips? also will using other eartips with the i4 fit in the case and charge?


Bugger 
I was a little quick... the bass is not reserved when using the Comply TW tips. Listening to some bass heavy tracks now (Infected Mushrooms - Avratz for example). And the bass is HEAVY on such tracks. I still think the highs are marginal more detailed on the i4. 
Bass is reserved with silicon tips. (both with the included and two Spinfit tips (CP100 and CP100Z). But the Spinfits do not fit in the charging case (they sounded good)


----------



## jrm27

You know... the BT20 looks like an interesting solution (allbeit for listening only). Could I pair these up with an old set of westone ES5?


----------



## david8613

QuadraKev said:


> Measurements for the Galaxy Buds makes them seem like they like a solid sound signature, but they're relatively light on bass. People who have tried them: Would you say they're a solid option?



I don't think your getting a proper seal, the galaxy buds have lots of bass, I mean plenty, not light at all on bass, the galaxy buds have a very nice sound sig.


i did the new update to my sennheiser momentum buds with out hitch, took longer than usual for a truewireless update, I heard the update is very big. I can see after update it definitely pairs with my Samsung note 8 phone much faster! and it is not losing connection as much as before forcing you to play with them a bit to get it to re-pair again. I also feel the sound seems a little nicer, cleaner, more separation not by much but it is noticeable, maybe connection strength is better now than before.


----------



## fortquo7

So like many of you I've been searching for the perfect TWS IEM. I've read almost 100 pages of this thread and I have to say thanks for all the valuable insight! 

I wound up purchasing the MW07 and except for the fact they're absolutely gorgeous (Yeah, it's insane) I'm underwhelmed to say the least. I've tried them on my iPhone XS Max and my MacBook Pro and in both instances the treble is so harsh it's almost painful, and the bass seems very disappointing. I frequently have to turn down the pair just to get the treble to where it is manageable. Very little bass response even though I've tried multiple ear tips. I've tried many TWS budget models (currently on the JLab JBuds Air) and they all seem to sound better. So am I crazy? Is my pair defective or is my untrained ear just that bad?


----------



## Slater

jrm27 said:


> You know... the BT20 looks like an interesting solution (allbeit for listening only). Could I pair these up with an old set of westone ES5?



What is the connector type?


----------



## jrm27

Its the old 2 pin setup... I'm not sure what that is called though! Time for me to do some research.


----------



## Bartig

fortquo7 said:


> So like many of you I've been searching for the perfect TWS IEM. I've read almost 100 pages of this thread and I have to say thanks for all the valuable insight!
> 
> I wound up purchasing the MW07 and except for the fact they're absolutely gorgeous (Yeah, it's insane) I'm underwhelmed to say the least. I've tried them on my iPhone XS Max and my MacBook Pro and in both instances the treble is so harsh it's almost painful, and the bass seems very disappointing. I frequently have to turn down the pair just to get the treble to where it is manageable. Very little bass response even though I've tried multiple ear tips. I've tried many TWS budget models (currently on the JLab JBuds Air) and they all seem to sound better. So am I crazy? Is my pair defective or is my untrained ear just that bad?


Wow, curious what others think of this.


----------



## david8613 (Apr 3, 2019)

fortquo7 said:


> So like many of you I've been searching for the perfect TWS IEM. I've read almost 100 pages of this thread and I have to say thanks for all the valuable insight!
> 
> I wound up purchasing the MW07 and except for the fact they're absolutely gorgeous (Yeah, it's insane) I'm underwhelmed to say the least. I've tried them on my iPhone XS Max and my MacBook Pro and in both instances the treble is so harsh it's almost painful, and the bass seems very disappointing. I frequently have to turn down the pair just to get the treble to where it is manageable. Very little bass response even though I've tried multiple ear tips. I've tried many TWS budget models (currently on the JLab JBuds Air) and they all seem to sound better. So am I crazy? Is my pair defective or is my untrained ear just that bad?



I have not tried the mwo7 yet, but I am curious, its on my bucket list to try next. I can tell you for sure that you are not getting a proper seal, when ever it sounds too trebly, harsh no bass its most likely the seal. it might feel like you have a seal but I am sure you don't, once you get that great seal you will know it. try to take off the little ear fins, sometimes those parts don't allow proper seal, everyone's ears are different, I have taken them off other headsets when I could not get proper seal. when you get it right BOOM! great bass, everything sounded much better and everthing falls into place. you can also try twisting the them in like screw, with your jaw open, then once in your ears close your jaw, and another hack I use sometimes is moisten the tips a little it sounds nasty but it really works.

oh another thing is leave them over night playing music or white noise. "burn in" is a real thing to me, I can hear the difference from day one to day 5, after speakers burn in things settle down and the buds give its true sound signature. I have had earphones that sounded terrible one day one, tight, flat, harsh, no bass, closed in sound stage and I was like "what the hell is everyone talking about?" and then a week later they go deep with a wide sound stage and they actually sing, wow. I just experienced this with the seinheiser mtw, they really didn't sound that great to me out the box, now I am very happy with great sound!


----------



## clerkpalmer

fortquo7 said:


> So like many of you I've been searching for the perfect TWS IEM. I've read almost 100 pages of this thread and I have to say thanks for all the valuable insight!
> 
> I wound up purchasing the MW07 and except for the fact they're absolutely gorgeous (Yeah, it's insane) I'm underwhelmed to say the least. I've tried them on my iPhone XS Max and my MacBook Pro and in both instances the treble is so harsh it's almost painful, and the bass seems very disappointing. I frequently have to turn down the pair just to get the treble to where it is manageable. Very little bass response even though I've tried multiple ear tips. I've tried many TWS budget models (currently on the JLab JBuds Air) and they all seem to sound better. So am I crazy? Is my pair defective or is my untrained ear just that bad?



Sounds like they are defective.  While reasonable minds can disagree about whether MW07 is THE BEST, there is no way they don't outperform budget models or JLab (I owned Epic Air Elite and MW07 destroys them).  You might try an exchange.  Something seems off.  MW07 are not fatiguing on the treble.  They are very warm and musical.


----------



## howdy

fortquo7 said:


> So like many of you I've been searching for the perfect TWS IEM. I've read almost 100 pages of this thread and I have to say thanks for all the valuable insight!
> 
> I wound up purchasing the MW07 and except for the fact they're absolutely gorgeous (Yeah, it's insane) I'm underwhelmed to say the least. I've tried them on my iPhone XS Max and my MacBook Pro and in both instances the treble is so harsh it's almost painful, and the bass seems very disappointing. I frequently have to turn down the pair just to get the treble to where it is manageable. Very little bass response even though I've tried multiple ear tips. I've tried many TWS budget models (currently on the JLab JBuds Air) and they all seem to sound better. So am I crazy? Is my pair defective or is my untrained ear just that bad?


Its sounds like you have a bad seal. Many people here have had issues with this including myself. I have spinfits on mine and bass lacking is something these are not. You neee to do some tip rolling to see what works for you. I have mine in right now listening to some Limp Bizkit my way and it sounds amazing!


----------



## fortquo7

howdy said:


> Its sounds like you have a bad seal. Many people here have had issues with this including myself. I have spinfits on mine and bass lacking is something these are not. You neee to do some tip rolling to see what works for you. I have mine in right now listening to some Limp Bizkit my way and it sounds amazing!


 
Thanks everyone for the tips. I’m thinking it may be defective. When the audio is off there’s a staccato hissing / spitting in the left ear. I agree seal may be at play. On my JBuds air there’s an audible pop when I lose a seal. What tips do y’all recommend? I tried comply back in the day but found they irritated my ears.


----------



## MICHAELSD (Apr 3, 2019)

Powerbeats Pro have a lot to live up to, and I think they’ll be among the best true wireless IEM’s if not the best. While Beats let me down once (Beats Studio3 wasn’t great), it looks like they really tried with the Powerbeats Pro to get the fit and sound right. This is a segment of the market they could absolutely dominate like the AirPods since they share the new H1 chip, so they have a lot riding on the Powerbeats Pro. 

Even more impressively, it looks like they followed a form follows design language. They’re not the best-looking Beats, but they are the most functional and I’d bet they’ll be the most refined.

https://www.theverge.com/platform/a...s-pro-true-wireless-earbuds-announced-airpods


----------



## SuperLuigi

https://hunss.tistory.com/163

Looks to be some information on the QCY T3 and pictures.  Let google translate the page for you.


----------



## clerkpalmer

MICHAELSD said:


> Powerbeats Pro have a lot to live up to, and I think they’ll be among the best true wireless IEM’s if not the best. While Beats let me down once (Beats Studio3 wasn’t great), it looks like they really tried with the Powerbeats Pro to get the fit and sound right. This is a segment of the market they could absolutely dominate like the AirPods since they share the new H1 chip, so they have a lot riding on the Powerbeats Pro.
> 
> Even more impressively, it looks like they followed a form follows design language. They’re not the best-looking Beats, but they are the most functional and I’d bet they’ll be the most refined.
> 
> https://www.theverge.com/platform/a...s-pro-true-wireless-earbuds-announced-airpods



These are compelling because they solve the main issues with AirPods. Namely poor sq and fit.

I’m guessing good to very good sq and the h1 chip with long battery life will make these excellent albeit probably 50 too expensive. Apple tax.  I’ll be preordering because I’m a fanboy. I doubt they will unseat senn and m&d for pure sq. But 9 hours of battery life is impressive.


----------



## MICHAELSD (Apr 3, 2019)

clerkpalmer said:


> These are compelling because they solve the main issues with AirPods. Namely poor sq and fit.
> 
> I’m guessing good to very good sq and the h1 chip with long battery life will make these excellent albeit probably 50 too expensive. Apple tax.  I’ll be preordering because I’m a fanboy. I doubt they will unseat senn and m&d for pure sq. But 9 hours of battery life is impressive.



If we take connectivity into account, the Powerbeats Pro will probably be the market leader. (Even if we don’t, they’ll still likely outsell the competition.)

My guess is they’ll measure extremely well with low harmonic distortion, high quality imaging, refined frequency response and in actual listening sound good to great. Although, it’s Beats and I’ve found glaring issues with the Studio3 and to a lesser extent the BeatsX. We will see but I do expect Powerbeats Pro to be the most refined in overall frequency response and sound quality.

Even though they sound the best currently, Momentum True Wireless still has issues I’ve seen mentioned in reviews that Sennheiser has to iron out.


----------



## 21qz

Hi guys and fellow mw07 owners. Based on my experience with these now for a few months there's a lot to like.
They look great, charging case, comfort, and sound is good for being wireless. I bought these strictly for the gym.
Though I do think they're comfortable, fit is sort of a problem. Now I cant be the only one, but when I'm at the gym I'm doing a lot of jumping, running, & fast movements.  
These babies just keep popping out. I sent a message to the M&D support team, with hopes of a solution to see if they can consider ear hooks.
I then heard about the Powerbeats Pro. It's looking like i may need to go that route, so i hope the sound quality is at least equal to these.


----------



## mdickerman

Are the Samsung Gear IconX the only true wireless that have built-in music storage?


----------



## albau

21qz said:


> Hi guys and fellow mw07 owners. Based on my experience with these now for a few months there's a lot to like.
> They look great, charging case, comfort, and sound is good for being wireless. I bought these strictly for the gym.
> Though I do think they're comfortable, fit is sort of a problem. Now I cant be the only one, but when I'm at the gym I'm doing a lot of jumping, running, & fast movements.
> These babies just keep popping out. I sent a message to the M&D support team, with hopes of a solution to see if they can consider ear hooks.
> I then heard about the Powerbeats Pro. It's looking like i may need to go that route, so i hope the sound quality is at least equal to these.


Man, it all so ear geometry dependent. Mine for example a very soft, so hooks simply don't stay behind them. With MW07 I use large SpinFit CP-100Z and large wings. It took some tribulations to arrive at this combo but now fit is very comfortable and secure. No popping out or constant readjustment even when rope jumping. You may also try to turn buds slightly around inside you ears. There's a sweet spot where wings hook up. Concerning Powerbeats knowing their house sound and target audience, which defines SQ by the sheer amount of bass and loudness, I highly doubt they could even approach boutique sound of D&D.


----------



## DannyBai

I received the tiso today and these are just as nice as the qs1. I got both for under 40 bucks. Damn good deal. Tiso has better stage but has fatter bass and rolled off highs. Vocals are more recessed also but I really do like the sound. Possibly slightly more then the qs1. Neither one of them sit in the case to charge when using different tips. I have to take the tips off before placing them to charge.


----------



## assassin10000

Just an FYI on battery life I've experienced on two relatively popular models. 

QCY QS1/T1C lasts about 2:50 for me. 
Charge time, approx. 1:05
Case holds 4 full charges (and 1/2-3/4 partial). Once it dies they do power on and try and connect.

Sabbat X12 Pro lasts 4-4:30.
Charge time about 1:20-1:30.
Case holds 5 full charges (and 1/4 partial). I wasn't paying attention when it fully died so unsure if they tried connecting.


----------



## chinmie

assassin10000 said:


> Just an FYI on battery life I've experienced on two relatively popular models.
> 
> QCY QS1/T1C lasts about 2:50 for me.
> Charge time, approx. 1:05
> ...



what phone are you using it with? i got almost double for both of them (past 5 hours for the T1C and around 7 hours on the Sabbat)


----------



## assassin10000

chinmie said:


> what phone are you using it with? i got almost double for both of them (past 5 hours for the T1C and around 7 hours on the Sabbat)



Samsung Note 4. 

I get 6-7 hours on the BT20.


----------



## RobinFood

I've been playing around with the Sabbat X12 Pro for a while now, and last night had a major breakthrough.
I always thought they were not very detailed and had poor imaging. For music, not the best, but when going to bed at night I didn't want to have to pull out the wired earphones.
Last night, in bed, streaming from my Shanling M0, I started playing with the bad pre-made EQ settings they had. Most of them completely muffled out the sound, but when I got to the "Sharp" setting, everything went into place.

The mid bass died out a lot, and the mids became 10 times cleaner (I already thought they sounded pretty clean) and more detailed. The sub bass was finally very nice and good sounding without the competition of the overwhelming bass. There was an increase in air that made the imaging just as good as a decent 50$+ IEM. The texture on the mids was amazing. It really made the whole thing come to life.

The only real thing that was missing is a hint of extra sparkle in the highs. It completely improved the bass and mids and made them sound completely natural, but it could use a touch more sparkle. I really wish I knew what the "Sharp" EQ changes are compared to a normal 5 or 12 band equalizer, and some way to store those changes on the earbuds like you can store EQ changes on the ES100. So far really loving them.

Anyways, Sabbat X12 Pro with a "Sharp" EQ setting is a really natural and neutral sounding earbud, with excellent sound that competes with some of the higher end TWE I have heard. It definately needs EQ though to sound its best.


I also re-ordered the Nuarl NT01AX. I saw that they had a firmware update recently, so hopefully they got rid of the hissing. I was really missing their sound tuning and need another set with isolation. I might have to unsubscribe after that!


----------



## chinmie

i wonder if this is the same product as the Astrotec s60? no mention on the BA driver brand though... but all else looks the same
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Blu...&terminal_id=fccfab85825a47e5ad87c4ae3a46d856

this also interesting:small case but without battery, like Bragi The Headphone 
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/TWS...&terminal_id=fccfab85825a47e5ad87c4ae3a46d856


----------



## RobinFood

chinmie said:


> i wonder if this is the same product as the Astrotec s60? no mention on the BA driver brand though... but all else looks the same
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Blu...&terminal_id=fccfab85825a47e5ad87c4ae3a46d856
> 
> this also interesting:small case but without battery, like Bragi The Headphone
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/TWS...&terminal_id=fccfab85825a47e5ad87c4ae3a46d856



It looks like the generic version of the Astrotec s60 
I think if it was a Knowles BA they would have mentioned it. Also, while they copied the model, it has double the charge of the original, so I am going to have to guess that they are using different tech in it. It looks a little off compared to the original, but they really did copy the model.

That being said, it's less expensive than the Astrotec s60, but the Astrotec is really not that expensive (75$) to start with, so I'm not sure it really needs a generic version...


----------



## Slater

SuperLuigi said:


> https://hunss.tistory.com/163
> 
> Looks to be some information on the QCY T3 and pictures.  Let google translate the page for you.



Also on that page it showed the T2. Looks like we could possibly have an option with volume control buttons:


----------



## 40760 (Apr 4, 2019)

RobinFood said:


> I also re-ordered the Nuarl NT01AX. I saw that they had a firmware update recently, so hopefully they got rid of the hissing. I was really missing their sound tuning and need another set with isolation. I might have to unsubscribe after that!



I thought I was hearing things after having my NT01AX replaced today due to peeling of the chrome finish on the left earpiece.

They sound even better and bass is clearly nicer and more pronounced. I believe the previous pair was a MSY2 while this new one is MT3.

QC of the NT01AX is not that good though, cause this replacement set does have some other cosmetic flaws (but better than peeling gold chrome).


----------



## Nikostr8

i have been reading a lot of good comments about the QCY T1C , is this the model i should go for if i want a cheap (20 euros in aliexpress ) tws to pair with my Mi A2 Lite?


----------



## actorlife

Slater said:


> Also on that page it showed the T2. Looks like we could possibly have an option with volume control buttons:


Heck I'll get it if it does.


----------



## Coladdict (Apr 4, 2019)

Just ordered QCY T1C recently and just noticed there is a T2C version ... What's the difference between them ... How much better T2C to T1C ... Contemplating ordering the T2C as both version don't cost me an arm and a leg ... LOL ... 

Could I ask what tip works best for the T1C ... TIA


----------



## matokt (Apr 4, 2019)

Coladdict said:


> Just ordered QCY T1C recently and just noticed there is a T2C version ... What's the difference between them ... How much better T2C to T1C ... Contemplating ordering the T2C as both version don't cost me an arm and a leg ... LOL ...
> 
> Could I ask what tip works best for the T1C ... TIA


Asked the same question earlier and difference I think if my memory serves me right was that the case hade bigger battery.

I am more interested in QCY T1C vs Anbes 359. I ordered the Anbes 359, lets hope I made the right choice.


----------



## Coladdict

matokt said:


> Asked the same question earlier and difference I think if my memory serves me right was that the case hade bigger battery.
> 
> I am more interested in QCY T1C vs Anbes 359. I ordered the Anbes 359, lets hope I made the right choice.



Thanks for the info.  T1C vs 359, what factored you in choosing 359 instead?  Maybe I should order this and keep it at office.  The form is different between them, just hope T1C fits well in my ear.  Not sure if I should get comfly tips for the T1C ...


----------



## SuperLuigi

actorlife said:


> Heck I'll get it if it does.



In the article i linked, it says that it's sold under the qcy t1 mini.  So i think it's this: 

https://www.ebay.ca/itm/QCY-Mini1-H...hash=item25f2a1f8b1:m:mHJpDDxdyuHOKk0jeCe9zAw

Looks like it has the buttons for the volume.


----------



## Slater

SuperLuigi said:


> In the article i linked, it says that it's sold under the qcy t1 mini.  So i think it's this:
> 
> https://www.ebay.ca/itm/QCY-Mini1-H...hash=item25f2a1f8b1:m:mHJpDDxdyuHOKk0jeCe9zAw
> 
> Looks like it has the buttons for the volume.



The Mini is just 1 bud, intended for use a Bluetooth (single) phone headset.

The T2 I posted is unique in that it has a pair of buds, intended for use as a TW earphone.

I guess one could buy (2) T1 Minis and pair them together.


----------



## mikp

Found this info on the qcy t1 mini tws
http://blog.naver.com/PostView.nhn?...yNo=14&parentCategoryNo=14&from=thumbnailList


Now come on qcc5124 with apt-x hd anc and ambient


----------



## matokt

Coladdict said:


> Thanks for the info.  T1C vs 359, what factored you in choosing 359 instead?  Maybe I should order this and keep it at office.  The form is different between them, just hope T1C fits well in my ear.  Not sure if I should get comfly tips for the T1C ...


Found some reviews on YouTube though under the name kissral UFO. Got great reviews, but may be biased and sponsored so dunno. Plus they look to be smaller.


----------



## albau

matokt said:


> Asked the same question earlier and difference I think if my memory serves me right was that the case hade bigger battery.
> 
> I am more interested in QCY T1C vs Anbes 359. I ordered the Anbes 359, lets hope I made the right choice.


Just few pages back I posted my impressions between T1C and Anbes 359 and why I kept latter over former. Here it goes again:

After I sent back T1c I’ve got myself some Anbes 359. To my ears Anbes have less neutral and a little more bassy sound with a slightly deeper soundstage, similarly decent mids and subdued highs. Detail and clarity are similar and on par with 65t. All in all, like with T1C, Anbes SQ is comparable, if not better, than 65t, but all three are in a musch lesser league than MW07. But Anbes at just $15 over T1C buys you volume control, much better magnetic case that doesn’t leave buds exposed, USB-C, more solid construction and better quality, if shiny, plastic. Speaking of shiny - UFO shaped case also lights up like the one. Buttons on Anbes are stiff but workable. On par with T1C earbuds are small and almost weightless, pleasure to wear, more so than bigger and heftier 65t, E8 and MW07. Anbes fit my ears better than T1C and have a more ergonomic shape. Charging case in reality feels much smaller and lighter than on photos, looks better as well. It’s a little fiddly to get earbuds out of the mighty magnetic embrace. Also when earbuds are in the case it’s not really obvious which one is left and which one is right (buds themselves are clearly marked, but on their stomachs). Must admit it, for $35 I’m really impressed with Anbes 359! Though 65t have an app, transparency mode, auto-pause/play and a better mic I’m not really sure that they are worth over $100 more.


----------



## Bartig

Nikostr8 said:


> i have been reading a lot of good comments about the QCY T1C , is this the model i should go for if i want a cheap (20 euros in aliexpress ) tws to pair with my Mi A2 Lite?


The QCY's are brilliant, but if you like your volume loud, the Anomoibuds Capsule may be the better choice at the same price. The sound is less balanced and doesn't have the same excellent tonality, but is more spacious and the bass is more present.



Coladdict said:


> Just ordered QCY T1C recently and just noticed there is a T2C version ... What's the difference between them ... How much better T2C to T1C ... Contemplating ordering the T2C as both version don't cost me an arm and a leg ... LOL ...
> 
> Could I ask what tip works best for the T1C ... TIA


Tips depend on your ear. The biggest tips that come delivered with it, are great for me. The only difference between those two is the capacity of the charging case.


----------



## Coladdict

Thanks for the input.  Just wondering if I should look into other tips for better fit and sound signature ... Anyone tried and compare between tips?  TIA


----------



## albau

Bartig said:


> The QCY's are brilliant, but if you like your volume loud, the Anomoibuds Capsule may be the better choice at the same price. The sound is less balanced and doesn't have the same excellent tonality, but is more spacious and the bass is more present.


Anabes 359 also go quite louder than T1c. I found mic on them to be better as well. I think how T1c (and Anabes) sound can be called "brilliant" only if you consider their low-low price.


----------



## RobinFood

palestofwhite said:


> I thought I was hearing things after having my NT01AX replaced today due to peeling of the chrome finish on the left earpiece.
> 
> They sound even better and bass is clearly nicer and more pronounced. I believe the previous pair was a MSY2 while this new one is MT3.
> 
> QC of the NT01AX is not that good though, cause this replacement set does have some other cosmetic flaws (but better than peeling gold chrome).



Awesome, something new to worry over trivially  
I guess the first thing I will do tonight is check my version.
When I had mine before I didn't get any QC issues. Maybe I was lucky, just the white noise and buzzing sound that I think may be widespread.

They were sold out for over a month everywhere until very recently, even on their website, and now every store in Japan seems to have tons of new stock all of a sudden, so I am hoping they ironed out all the issues.

The support they had was really good though within Japan. Very responsive to any question or issue.


----------



## newtothegame1231

hi everyone, i'm not sure if this is the perfect place to ask (if its not, feel free to delete this!) but i'll give it a shot.
:
i'm looking to buy my first pair of wireless earbud(i have a budget of $200 CDN). I'm new to this so i'm looking for something that's great for the gym (noise cancellation if possible) and ur daily commute of 2 and half hours.


----------



## bubsdaddy

I just received my set of QCY T1s and they were awful until I swapped the tips with some Sony hybrids. Now they are excellent!


----------



## Slater

bubsdaddy said:


> I just received my set of QCY T1s and they were awful until I swapped the tips with some Sony hybrids. Now they are excellent!



I liked the Sony Hybrids, but if you have a chance try them with Auvio wide bores


----------



## howdy

newtothegame1231 said:


> hi everyone, i'm not sure if this is the perfect place to ask (if its not, feel free to delete this!) but i'll give it a shot.
> :
> i'm looking to buy my first pair of wireless earbud(i have a budget of $200 CDN). I'm new to this so i'm looking for something that's great for the gym (noise cancellation if possible) and ur daily commute of 2 and half hours.


Ive never heard them but for 200 I would say the new Samsung or possibly the Jabra 65t elite active would be really good and reliable. I have the Jabra active and think they are great and reliable for the price.


----------



## chinmie (Apr 4, 2019)

bubsdaddy said:


> I just received my set of QCY T1s and they were awful until I swapped the tips with some Sony hybrids. Now they are excellent!



 

i found that for me the T1 perform better with these wide bores. also still would fit perfectly inside the case because it's not too tall



albau said:


> Anabes 359 also go quite louder than T1c. I found mic on them to be better as well. I think how T1c (and Anabes) sound can be called "brilliant" only if you consider their low-low price.



i think the T1C sounded great regardless the price. I'd say it sounds better even than some wired under 100usd


----------



## Coladdict

Slater said:


> I liked the Sony Hybrids, but if you have a chance try them with Auvio wide bores



Sony Hybrids?  Auvio wide bores??  Could I ask for link on these tips???  Ebay, Aliexpress, etc????
Still got tips from Xiaomi Piston 2 ... Not sure if these would work with the T1C ...  TIA


----------



## Slater

Coladdict said:


> Sony Hybrids?  Auvio wide bores??  Could I ask for link on these tips???  Ebay, Aliexpress, etc????
> Still got tips from Xiaomi Piston 2 ... Not sure if these would work with the T1C ...  TIA



Auvios:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00MY9T7AO

https://www.radioshack.com/products/radioshack-rbasic-silicone-replace-tips-s-m-l


----------



## 40760

RobinFood said:


> Awesome, something new to worry over trivially
> I guess the first thing I will do tonight is check my version.
> When I had mine before I didn't get any QC issues. Maybe I was lucky, just the white noise and buzzing sound that I think may be widespread.
> 
> ...



It's odd, but I'm partly to be blamed for not checking thoroughly before accepting the new set. Now that the chrome finish is perfect, there seems to be some kind of glue marks or melted plastic on the black shell that cannot be removed. It's quite bad considering these are taken from a sealed retail box. I have emailed the distributor again. Maybe I'm just unlucky...


----------



## BigZ12

chinmie said:


> i found that for me the T1 perform better with these wide bores. also still would fit perfectly inside the case because it's not too tall


And what kind of tips is that? I have nothing in my collection with that kind of wide bore. Would love to try one on the QCY.


----------



## RobinFood

palestofwhite said:


> I thought I was hearing things after having my NT01AX replaced today due to peeling of the chrome finish on the left earpiece.
> 
> They sound even better and bass is clearly nicer and more pronounced. I believe the previous pair was a MSY2 while this new one is MT3.
> 
> QC of the NT01AX is not that good though, cause this replacement set does have some other cosmetic flaws (but better than peeling gold chrome).



Well, I got the new NT01AX. Mine is also an MT3, yay! The bass does sound more pronounced, I actually preferred the lighter touch from before, but those highs and mids are just as delicious as I remember. Best news is that this unit has absolutely NO buzzing sounds my previous unit had. I am extremely happy! Looks like I am done with TWE for a long while, and actually with audio in general. I just don't feel like there is a better balance of sound quality, comfort and convenience at the moment, and I get my earbud and IEM versions done. It all feels so perfect!


----------



## BigZ12

RobinFood said:


> Well, I got the new NT01AX. Mine is also an MT3, yay! The bass does sound more pronounced, I actually preferred the lighter touch from before, but those highs and mids are just as delicious as I remember. Best news is that this unit has absolutely NO buzzing sounds my previous unit had. I am extremely happy! Looks like I am done with TWE for a long while, and actually with audio in general. I just don't feel like there is a better balance of sound quality, comfort and convenience at the moment, and I get my earbud and IEM versions done. It all feels so perfect!


Where did you buy these?


----------



## 40760 (Apr 5, 2019)

RobinFood said:


> Well, I got the new NT01AX. Mine is also an MT3, yay! The bass does sound more pronounced, I actually preferred the lighter touch from before, but those highs and mids are just as delicious as I remember. Best news is that this unit has absolutely NO buzzing sounds my previous unit had. I am extremely happy! Looks like I am done with TWE for a long while, and actually with audio in general. I just don't feel like there is a better balance of sound quality, comfort and convenience at the moment, and I get my earbud and IEM versions done. It all feels so perfect!



Exactly! Better deeper bass without affecting the mids and highs, making them sound more exciting. I do hope they'll make a concession and allow for another exchange so I can get one in perfect condition. Pray for me!


----------



## RobinFood

BigZ12 said:


> Where did you buy these?



Amazon Japan, since I am from Japan. I could have gotten them cheaper in person at e-earphones, but I had a bunch of Amazon credit.

They still have ground noise hiss that is constant, which I feel is due in part to the good seal since I hear the same start pop from the Sabbat when it connects at first, but the drivers are farther away and don't seal. What dissapeared though is the annoying high pitch noises when I paused it, or random beeping noise like there is some robot chattering going on. It looks like they changed the way it hooks up by Bluetooth too, you used to have to connect both the left and right earbud separately, but not anymore.

My god, the texture on the instruments is amazing. Pianos, drums, and strings are all super impactful.


----------



## RobinFood

palestofwhite said:


> Exactly! Better deeper bass without affecting the mids and highs, making them sound more exciting. I do hope they'll make a concession and allow for another exchange so I can get one in perfect condition. Pray for me!



Doesn't hurt to try 
I really missed their sound, even with the ER4XR on the ES100 lying around. They sound extremely realistic, but in a different way, which is great!


----------



## 40760 (Apr 5, 2019)

RobinFood said:


> Doesn't hurt to try
> I really missed their sound, even with the ER4XR on the ES100 lying around. They sound extremely realistic, but in a different way, which is great!



I've already emailed them about it. Hope I get a favourable response from them next week as they don't work on weekends.


----------



## d3myz

RobinFood said:


> Well, I got the new NT01AX. Mine is also an MT3, yay! The bass does sound more pronounced, I actually preferred the lighter touch from before, but those highs and mids are just as delicious as I remember. Best news is that this unit has absolutely NO buzzing sounds my previous unit had. I am extremely happy! Looks like I am done with TWE for a long while, and actually with audio in general. I just don't feel like there is a better balance of sound quality, comfort and convenience at the moment, and I get my earbud and IEM versions done. It all feels so perfect!


Looks like I found their clone on Amazon. https://www.amazon.com/Ricockpit-RO...coding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=YJFNK9XAAFXKVSSPJ0D2 wonder how they sound? maybe i'll pick them up and see.


----------



## clerkpalmer

d3myz said:


> Looks like I found their clone on Amazon. https://www.amazon.com/Ricockpit-RO...coding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=YJFNK9XAAFXKVSSPJ0D2 wonder how they sound? maybe i'll pick them up and see.


Any reason to think sq or drivers would be different?


----------



## david8613

the sennheiser momentum truewireless had a firmware update for android devices earlier this week, but today I noticed they have an update on the app also, just a heads up guys!


----------



## bubsdaddy

Slater said:


> Auvios:
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00MY9T7AO
> 
> https://www.radioshack.com/products/radioshack-rbasic-silicone-replace-tips-s-m-l


You are one persuasive head-fier. I ordered 4 sets from your RS link as they have a BOGO  right now. With shipping it came to just over $11 - not bad.


----------



## Morbeas

I just found out the Powerbeats Pro will not have an ambient mode. As a commuter, this is a fairly important feature I'd like to have.

Is this something that can be added later on via a software update?


----------



## Slater

bubsdaddy said:


> You are one persuasive head-fier. I ordered 4 sets from your RS link as they have a BOGO  right now. With shipping it came to just over $11 - not bad.



I’m sure you’ll love the Auvios. I use them on a lot of my IEMs, not just the QS1/T1C.


----------



## 05stisilver

d3myz said:


> Looks like I found their clone on Amazon. https://www.amazon.com/Ricockpit-RO...coding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=YJFNK9XAAFXKVSSPJ0D2 wonder how they sound? maybe i'll pick them up and see.



The NT01-MB is on Ebay for @100 dollars assuming it's the same thing just matte black.


----------



## RobinFood

clerkpalmer said:


> Any reason to think sq or drivers would be different?



Quite a few reasons actually. NT01AX are graphene drivers and the are HDSS certified. They use APTX with the QCC3026 chip.
Nuarl has other cheaper NT01s in their lines, and they are not as popular, especially the NT01L series has poor reviews. That one looks like their NT01L more in shape, which is much cheaper here in Japan. You might only be saving 20-30$ compared to the cheaper models. That being said, other than APTX and Graphene Drivers, the NT01B sounds very close, and also has HDSS certified drivers. They go for about 80$ sometimes, which is half the price, and gives you 90% of the sound. 

I was able to afford the higher model and felt it was worth it since they are putting a lot of work in it with firmware updates, and AAC sometimes doesn't work well with my gear.


----------



## RobinFood

05stisilver said:


> The NT01-MB is on Ebay for @100 dollars assuming it's the same thing just matte black.



Same tuning, but missing APTX and graphene drivers. If you have an Iphone as a source it makes sense to go that way.


----------



## d3myz

Slater said:


> I’m sure you’ll love the Auvios. I use them on a lot of my IEMs, not just the QS1/T1C.


Any idea how would they compare to the Victor JVC spiral dots? They appear to have the same wide bore. I ordered auvios from radioshack didn't pay for express shipping so it's going to be a couple weeks until they get here.


----------



## Slater

d3myz said:


> Any idea how would they compare to the Victor JVC spiral dots? They appear to have the same wide bore. I ordered auvios from radioshack didn't pay for express shipping so it's going to be a couple weeks until they get here.



They are basically a ‘poor man’s Spiral Dot’.


----------



## BobJS

chinmie said:


> i found that for me the T1 perform better with these wide bores. also still would fit perfectly inside the case because it's not too tall
> 
> 
> 
> i think the T1C sounded great regardless the price. I'd say it sounds better even than some wired under 100usd



Did we find out which tips these were?


----------



## chinmie

BigZ12 said:


> And what kind of tips is that? I have nothing in my collection with that kind of wide bore. Would love to try one on the QCY.





BobJS said:


> Did we find out which tips these were?



it's some really generic and cheap wide bores that i purchased from a local online store in my country 
https://www.jakartanotebook.com/silicon-earbuds-50-degree-for-earphone-black

i almost exclusively only use this product for wide bore solution (beside the JVC spiral dots and the Tennmak whirlwinds)

i did a google image search for it and found this on aliexpress, i hope it is the same product as they are using the same picture

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Hot...&terminal_id=fccfab85825a47e5ad87c4ae3a46d856


----------



## daxeohang

Hi everyone, I'm looking for a budget true wireless (TWS) in-ear.
My budget is around 50$. From my googling around, some were caught my attention:
• Jlab Jbuds Air
• SoundPEAT True Free ( variant Q29 and Q32 make me confusing, I mean on the SoundPEAT page, they have only True Free version when I surf around, can not find Q29, but Q32 which leads me think only for Japan market)
• TOZO T10 (rank #6 on Amazon best seller IE headphones)
• More on TWS on Amazon best seller IE headphones list
My priority following: Sound quality > Durability > Battery > Functionality.
Additionally, I seriously consider about whether they'll fit my ears or not, but since almost of IEs allows to swap their ear-tips, I'll let it as it would be.
Sorry for my bad English, I appreciate for any advice or suggestion.


----------



## albau (Apr 5, 2019)

daxeohang said:


> SoundPEAT True Free ( variant Q29 and Q32 make me confusing, I mean on the SoundPEAT page, they have only True Free version when I surf around, can not find Q29, but Q32 which leads me think only for Japan market)


I believe SoundPEATS True Free are re-brand of a highly regraded here QCY T1c. As with QCY, other versions that have same looking earbuds differ only in a better charging case that has a lid and bigger capacity. I had T1c and liked the sound - quite balanced, clear and neutral with a little rolled off but pleasant highs. SQ is definitely no worse than $150 Jabra 65t. But construction is meh, charging case doesn't have a lid, there's no resident volume control and no USB-C. So I replaced them by Anbes 359 which for $36 I highly recommend. They sound more bassy and more spacious but less neutral than T1c. Still pretty good and in similar vein. And they also have a novelty UFO-shaped case with a lid and USB-C, volume controls, they go much louder, better construction and materials, better mic and they fit my ears better. Since everyone's ears are different, like with any IEMs be prepared to roll your own tips and be aware that not all non-stock tips will fit into a charging case. Btw, your written English is much better than that of many natives .


----------



## tayo15 (Apr 5, 2019)

Are the NT01AX the best TW buds atm?

Sound profile?

If I order them from Japan Amazon whats the seller to order them from?

Thank you in advance!


----------



## chinmie

daxeohang said:


> Hi everyone, I'm looking for a budget true wireless (TWS) in-ear.
> My budget is around 50$. From my googling around, some were caught my attention:
> • Jlab Jbuds Air
> • SoundPEAT True Free ( variant Q29 and Q32 make me confusing, I mean on the SoundPEAT page, they have only True Free version when I surf around, can not find Q29, but Q32 which leads me think only for Japan market)
> ...



the QCY T1C is a great pick. also others here mention the Anbes 359 and Tiso i4 as their favorite.
my two other favorite are the Sabbat X12 Pro and Mifo o5 standard version. both are priced near the 50usd mark if you shop around


----------



## mikp

tayo15 said:


> Are the NT01AX the beat TW buds atm?
> 
> Sound profile?
> 
> ...



I have bookmarked this site for future qcc5100. https://www.stereo.com.sg/shop/earphones/true-wireless.html


Anyone else here with qcc3026 that get it to work with win 10 1809? only voice on my mavins


----------



## Bob24

Morbeas said:


> I just found out the Powerbeats Pro will not have an ambient mode. As a commuter, this is a fairly important feature I'd like to have.
> 
> Is this something that can be added later on via a software update?



It certainly could as the hardware capability is there, but I wouldn’t buy them counting on it happening. If they didn’t include the feature in the first place they possibly don’t think it is worth their while (although I would definitely agree with you that it is a useful feature).


----------



## RobinFood

tayo15 said:


> Are the NT01AX the best TW buds atm?
> 
> Sound profile?
> 
> ...



Hard to say. They along with the MW07 were my favorite, sound wise. They are much cheaper than the MW07 and the battery lasts 3 times longer, but the finish and build quality is less good, especially the case.

They are neutral in sound. It is a requirement of HDSS certification for the sound to have as little coloring as possible.

From outside Japan I am not sure the best place to get them...Amazon any seller with a rating over 90 and a few hundred transactions should be fine. You can also try ordering from them directly.


----------



## C_Lindbergh

Do the NT01AX  have some kind of ambient mode?


----------



## RobinFood

C_Lindbergh said:


> Do the NT01AX  have some kind of ambient mode?



Nope, that's why I have the Sabbat X12 pro. Better than any ambient mode I have tried to be honest.


----------



## mikp

RobinFood said:


> Hard to say. They along with the MW07 were my favorite, sound wise. They are much cheaper than the MW07 and the battery lasts 3 times longer, but the finish and build quality is less good, especially the case.
> 
> They are neutral in sound. It is a requirement of HDSS certification for the sound to have as little coloring as possible.
> 
> From outside Japan I am not sure the best place to get them...Amazon any seller with a rating over 90 and a few hundred transactions should be fine. You can also try ordering from them directly.



Would be interesting to listen for difference on the mavin and NT01AX , not prepared to pay for it though. Looks like the tax man forgot about the mavin hopefully.  do like them but in one ear have to adjust the button press so it dont jam it in.


----------



## C_Lindbergh (Apr 5, 2019)

RobinFood said:


> Nope, that's why I have the Sabbat X12 pro. Better than any ambient mode I have tried to be honest.



Yeah, but they got neither an EQ or APTX ..

I guess I'll have to wait some time more for a perfect pair of True Wireless... My current pair is the Sennheiser TMW, which are really good in terms of SQ, but lacks in many areas.


----------



## RobinFood

C_Lindbergh said:


> Yeah, but they got neither an EQ or APTX ..
> 
> I guess I'll have to wait some time more for a perfect pair of True Wireless... My current pair is the Sennheiser TMW, which are really good in terms of SQ, but lacks in many areas.



Yeah, I think this summer we will see ambient mode becoming normal. That being said, ambient mode on kind of worsens the sound quality and makes the little advantage APTX adds inexistant in my experience.

The Sabbat sports a driver twice and almost three times the diameter of a normal TWE driver. I only use it in SBC mode but it doesn't have any of the SBC artifacts I usually hear, so something seems to be compensating. With a little EQ they are just as good as the Mavins on APTX. Without it they are a little veiled and not so interesting.


----------



## Cosmosan

Does anyone know anything about Cleer Audio? Looks like they have a promising set of true wireless releasing soon:
https://cleeraudio.com/product/ally-plus/


----------



## tayo15

RobinFood said:


> Hard to say. They along with the MW07 were my favorite, sound wise. They are much cheaper than the MW07 and the battery lasts 3 times longer, but the finish and build quality is less good, especially the case.
> 
> They are neutral in sound. It is a requirement of HDSS certification for the sound to have as little coloring as possible.
> 
> From outside Japan I am not sure the best place to get them...Amazon any seller with a rating over 90 and a few hundred transactions should be fine. You can also try ordering from them directly.



I dont really want ambient mode. I'm actually the opposite. Would the mw07 or NT isolate better?? And which one would you personally recommend?


----------



## 40760

RobinFood said:


> Hard to say. They along with the MW07 were my favorite, sound wise. They are much cheaper than the MW07 and the battery lasts 3 times longer, but the finish and build quality is less good, especially the case.
> 
> They are neutral in sound. It is a requirement of HDSS certification for the sound to have as little coloring as possible.
> 
> From outside Japan I am not sure the best place to get them...Amazon any seller with a rating over 90 and a few hundred transactions should be fine. You can also try ordering from them directly.



I think Nuarl is only available in select asian markets for now. It's not too long the NT01AX got released in Singapore.


----------



## RobinFood (Apr 6, 2019)

tayo15 said:


> I dont really want ambient mode. I'm actually the opposite. Would the mw07 or NT isolate better?? And which one would you personally recommend?



I can't say for sure because it is down to fit, but I think the MW07 probably has better isolation.
I use the oval spinfits on the NT01AX. They slip in instantly and seal up without putting pressure on the walls of the ears, but isolation is slightly worst. They also use little ear tags to kind of float in place.
The wings on the MW07 fill up the entire ear canal, and they use more traditional tips that you jam in there.
Both might be similar with foam, but the hassle of tip rolling might make the experience less good.

I feel like on the NT01A with spinfits the isolation is similar to the Sony MDR-EX series...which isn't great. I can mostly hear all my surroundings when out and about. I could hear station announcements in quiet parts of the songs.

For lovers of ambient mode, has anyone tried the Pioneer low-tech method, with ear tips that have slits in them?

https://www.pioneer-audiovisual.eu/uk/products/se-e8tw

I can't find just the ear tips for sale though...


----------



## RestUnknown

Since I honestly don't know where to start, I hope you guys can help me out.

Looking for bluetooth in ear headphones for running. Sound quality should be good and fun (i.e. perhaps more bass emphasized), the fit should of course be snug and comfortable because of the running.
Battery life is of no concern, looks don't really matter.
Budget is max of 100 euro's, it can be more but I hope around that price mark and less is of course better.
They will also be used to listen to music at home outside from time to time.
They don't need to have any functionality like picking up phone calls or changing the volume. Although changing volume might be handy, I don't see any issues with just using my phone for that.

Thanks!


----------



## daxeohang (Apr 6, 2019)

albau said:


> So I replaced them by Anbes 359 which for $36 I highly recommend. They sound more bassy and more spacious but less neutral than T1c. Still pretty good and in similar vein. Btw, your written English is much better than that of many natives .


Thank you for your recomendation and such a kind compliment 
How long do you own Anbes 359? Do you have any experience with Sabbat E12/ X12 or Mifo 05 to compare with these? I've already seen a lot mention of them in here.



chinmie said:


> the QCY T1C is a great pick. also others here mention the Anbes 359 and Tiso i4 as their favorite.
> my two other favorite are the Sabbat X12 Pro and Mifo o5 standard version. both are priced near the 50usd mark if you shop around


Thank you for your recommendation. In your opinion, do have any notable pros of X12 and O5 which I have to concern about?
Note that I've already try TFZ X1 at my local shop, which I believe is rebrand of Sabbat E12 or Mifo O5. The sound of TFZ is acceptable but at the price point (~113USD in my country), it's really not worth imho, even worse than my KZ ED9 (because of it's wired, maybe not fair, but it cost me only 15$).

I'm planning to get 2 wireless earbuds, one in-ear for my young brother (he loves in-ear) and one (earbud prefer, looking at X12) for mine. Please note that I'm ok with in-ear variants as long as it provides better sound quality.


----------



## chinmie

daxeohang said:


> Thank you for your recommendation. In your opinion, do have any notable pros of X12 and O5 which I have to concern about?
> Note that I've already try TFZ X1 at my local shop, which I believe is rebrand of Sabbat E12 or Mifo O5. The sound of TFZ is acceptable but at the price point (~113USD in my country), it's really not worth imho, even worse than my KZ ED9 (because of it's wired, maybe not fair, but it cost me only 15$).
> 
> I'm planning to get 2 wireless earbuds, one in-ear for my young brother (he loves in-ear) and one (earbud prefer, looking at X12) for mine. Please note that I'm ok with in-ear variants as long as it provides better sound quality.



TFZ X1 is a rebrand of the Mifo o5 pro version (BA driver). the standard version of the mifo which is cheaper and uses dynamic driver sounds better in my opinion. 
the Mifo excel in total battery life and waterproofing. you can dunk it in water and it will survive. 
the X12 has a natural and airy presentation, like listening to room speakers.

my favorite right now is the QCY T1C.


----------



## albau (Apr 6, 2019)

daxeohang said:


> Thank you for your recomendation and such a kind compliment
> How long do you own Anbes 359? Do you have any experience with Sabbat E12/ X12 or Mifo 05 to compare with these? I've already seen a lot mention of them in here.


I had Anbes exactly for a week today, was using them every day interchangeably with mw07 - former mostly at the gym and latter while walking or at home. Unfortunately I don’t have any experience with Sabbats or the Mifo. My prior TWS knowledge is limited mostly to higher end - E8, 65t, mw07. But having owned T1c and especially Anbes 359 I’m convinced that 65t don’t really have the right to exist at their current price point. E8 and mw07 is another story because sound-wise they are on a different level. That for headfier in me excuses almost everything else.


----------



## cityle

albau said:


> I had Anbes exactly for a week today, was using them every day interchangeably with mw07 - former mostly at the gym and latter while walking or at home. Unfortunately I don’t have any experience with Sabbats or the Mifo. My prior TWS knowledge is limited mostly to higher end - E8, 65t, mw07. But having owned T1c and especially Anbes 359 I’m convinced that 65t don’t really have the right to exist at their current price point. E8 and mw07 is another story because sound-wise they are on a different level. That for headfier in me excuses almost everything else.


Between a MW07 at $200CAD and T1C at $40CAD, which would say it's the most worth in term of sound, soundstage and airyness?


----------



## mikp

albau said:


> I had Anbes exactly for a week today, was using them every day interchangeably with mw07 - former mostly at the gym and latter while walking or at home. Unfortunately I don’t have any experience with Sabbats or the Mifo. My prior TWS knowledge is limited mostly to higher end - E8, 65t, mw07. But having owned T1c and especially Anbes 359 I’m convinced that 65t don’t really have the right to exist at their current price point. E8 and mw07 is another story because sound-wise they are on a different level. That for headfier in me excuses almost everything else.



The 65t is a good allrounder. Multipoint that seems to be missing on a lot of tws, good ambient sound and for me good fit with easy controls. But in sound they fall short to something like the mavins.
If jabra makes a version with the qcc5100 series and improves sq it could be good. They are releasing a headphone ,85, with that chip.

But it could be a long time until they replace the 65t, if they ever do.


----------



## tayo15

palestofwhite said:


> I think Nuarl is only available in select asian markets for now. It's not too long the NT01AX got released in Singapore.



If you hit the website linked to my comment the Singapore shop does deliver to the USA or international and the main site also delivers them international.


----------



## actorlife

cityle said:


> Between a MW07 at $200CAD and T1C at $40CAD, which would say it's the most worth in term of sound, soundstage and airyness?


Just get the Anbes 359.


----------



## albau

cityle said:


> Between a MW07 at $200CAD and T1C at $40CAD, which would say it's the most worth in term of sound, soundstage and airyness?


 Define "worth"? Only you can answer how much money per how much sound improvement is worth to you. In every sound quality parameter, including those you listed, MW07 is better, sometimes substantially, than t1c and anbes 359. Whether it's 5x improvement I doubt it, but to me it's worth it. Very well could be different to you. With largely subjective things like hi-fi sound, mechanical watches, photo/video optics, performance cars and bikes, etc. there's a law of diminishing returns - investment is hardly proportional the improvement. And the more expensive thing gets the more subtle is the return.


----------



## albau

actorlife said:


> Just get the Anbes 359.


Other t1c definetly! Over MW07 hughly questionable.


----------



## 40760

tayo15 said:


> If you hit the website linked to my comment the Singapore shop does deliver to the USA or international and the main site also delivers them international.


I suppose you're talking about purchasing from Stereo? They do ship internationally, but not sure how seamless warranty is going to work out though, since their distributor for Nuarl is local to SG.
You might have to ship back and forth for warranty, which can be quite costly.


----------



## newtothegame1231

How do i order anbes or t1c in canada?


----------



## tayo15

palestofwhite said:


> I suppose you're talking about purchasing from Stereo? They do ship internationally, but not sure how seamless warranty is going to work out though, since their distributor for Nuarl is local to SG.
> You might have to ship back and forth for warranty, which can be quite costly.



In that case yeah, but honeatly ive dropped over $1500+ on headphones already $170 seems kinda alright. I know its not the same for everyone but I wouldnt mind if they are the best sounding.


----------



## tayo15

So at the moment which headphones are the best sounding, resolving and clear of the bunch?? I dont care about shipping. Added bonus if they offer isolation. Also dont care about build just sound.


----------



## albau

newtothegame1231 said:


> How do i order anbes or t1c in canada?


There's no Amazon in Canada?


----------



## albau

tayo15 said:


> So at the moment which headphones are the best sounding, resolving and clear of the bunch?? I dont care about shipping. Added bonus if they offer isolation. Also dont care about build just sound.


None if compared to wired. Otherwise Master & Dynamic MW07, Sennheiser Momentum True Wireless  and B&O E8. These are the ones I've heard myself and seem to be concensus on this thread. Others swear by RHA, Audiotechnica and Nural.


----------



## Slater

tayo15 said:


> So at the moment which headphones are the best sounding, resolving and clear of the bunch?? I dont care about shipping. Added bonus if they offer isolation. Also dont care about build just sound.



Maybe wait and see how the Beats Pro pans out?


----------



## albau

Slater said:


> Maybe wait and see how the Beats Pro pans out?


Did Beats ever had a good sounding phone, whether wired or nor?


----------



## Slater

albau said:


> Did Beats ever had a good sounding phone, whether wired or nor?



I haven’t heard anything since Apple took over, but the Pro wasn’t too bad. Definitely the best Beats product I’ve heard from their lineup.


----------



## RestUnknown

RestUnknown said:


> Since I honestly don't know where to start, I hope you guys can help me out.
> 
> Looking for bluetooth in ear headphones for running. Sound quality should be good and fun (i.e. perhaps more bass emphasized), the fit should of course be snug and comfortable because of the running.
> Battery life is of no concern, looks don't really matter.
> ...



Anyone?


----------



## BobJS

cityle said:


> Between a MW07 at $200CAD and T1C at $40CAD, which would say it's the most worth in term of sound, soundstage and airyness?



If money is no object, or rather, if you can afford it, MW07.  If money is a consideration, T1C.


----------



## clerkpalmer

RestUnknown said:


> Anyone?



At that price range you might consider Sony sp700n. Fun sound signature, great fit mediocre battery but will make it through a run. The new creative set looks good at that price. The chifi guys might have some other suggestions.


----------



## clerkpalmer

BobJS said:


> If money is no object, or rather, if you can afford it, MW07.  If money is a consideration, T1C.


Cross shopping these two is like asking whether you should buy a Honda or a BMW.


----------



## newtothegame1231

albau said:


> There's no Amazon in Canada?



can't seem to find them on amazon canada


----------



## cityle

newtothegame1231 said:


> can't seem to find them on amazon canada


I have doubt in your abilities to use the internets...
https://www.amazon.ca/QCY-Bluetooth...words=qcy+t1c&qid=1554672968&s=gateway&sr=8-1


----------



## sfleming

Thanks guys for a really excellent thread on this topic. I'm always at the gym these days, so it's time to cut the cord and I've put the Anbes 359 in my online shopping cart today. 
Additionally I was debating between a Taotronics and the Back Beat Pro 2 as an over-ear for home use, but couldn't pull the trigger. That's for a different thread 

-Steve


----------



## tayo15

Mw07 vs Sony Sp700n vs Nt01ax for sound quality??


----------



## Coladdict (Apr 7, 2019)

Ordered T1C, looking to order another pair ... Tiso i4 vs Anbes 359 ... Sabbat x12 Pro vs MifoO5 ... TIA


----------



## howdy

tayo15 said:


> Mw07 vs Sony Sp700n vs Nt01ax for sound quality??


Never heard the NT01ax but the MW07 vs the SP700n are not in the same league as for SQ goes. The MW07 are one of the best for wireless. To me the Senns,MW07 and E8s are the best I've heard.


----------



## RobinFood

I will be honest, for me, the NT01ax has the best sound provided a little white noise doesn't bother you.

They are my second favorite pair of audio gear ever, only the ER4XR is better, but I am more likely to grab these first for convenience and comfort.

They make instruments sound so realistic and textured. Great imaging both wide and tall. They kind of sound like when your friends in a band invited you to listen to them rehearse up close.

ER4XR sounds like you are in a recording booth with the band.


----------



## 40760

RobinFood said:


> I will be honest, for me, the NT01ax has the best sound provided a little white noise doesn't bother you.
> 
> They are my second favorite pair of audio gear ever, only the ER4XR is better, but I am more likely to grab these first for convenience and comfort.
> 
> ...



Okay good news! I'm allowed to exchange the NT01AX for one last time! Revision MT3 sounds so good...


----------



## clerkpalmer

RobinFood said:


> I will be honest, for me, the NT01ax has the best sound provided a little white noise doesn't bother you.
> 
> They are my second favorite pair of audio gear ever, only the ER4XR is better, but I am more likely to grab these first for convenience and comfort.
> 
> ...



And you have heard


RobinFood said:


> I will be honest, for me, the NT01ax has the best sound provided a little white noise doesn't bother you.
> 
> They are my second favorite pair of audio gear ever, only the ER4XR is better, but I am more likely to grab these first for convenience and comfort.
> 
> ...



Are you saying these sound better than mw07? Can these be purchased in the US?


----------



## tayo15

tayo15 said:


> Mw07 vs Sony Sp700n vs Nt01ax for sound quality??





clerkpalmer said:


> And you have heard
> 
> 
> Are you saying these sound better than mw07? Can these be purchased in the US?



As far as we know, no, but you can order them from the original site to the US or the Singapore StereoShop. Downside is if they come with defects, returns and shipping and handling will get expensive. So I have been told.


----------



## RobinFood (Apr 8, 2019)

clerkpalmer said:


> And you have heard
> 
> 
> Are you saying these sound better than mw07? Can these be purchased in the US?



To me, they do. They completely defy the concept that you can't have good bass, good mids and good highs without sacrificing something somewhere.

The MW07 is no slouch though, it is thanks to it that I thought TWE was a viable option. They sound like a good pair of wired earphones.

I have tried all the big brands at the store, like Sony, Audio technica, RHA, Jabra, MTW, as well as a few Chinese models, like the Sabbat and Astrotec models, and a bunch of Japanese exclusive models, Nuarl being one of them.

I am not sure where to get it in the US, but the MW07 might be cheaper there. It is horribly expensve to buy the MW here, which really makes other options much more appealing.


----------



## SkorgrimR

I know I'm probably late to the discussion, but are there any IPX7 true wireless earbuds you would recommend around $50? I've been following this discussion for about a week now and feel like someone here would know.


----------



## chinmie

SkorgrimR said:


> I know I'm probably late to the discussion, but are there any IPX7 true wireless earbuds you would recommend around $50? I've been following this discussion for about a week now and feel like someone here would know.



Mifo o5 standard version


----------



## 40760 (Apr 8, 2019)

RobinFood said:


> To me, they do. They completely defy the concept that you can't have good bass, good mids and good highs without sacrificing something somewhere.
> 
> The MW07 is no slouch though, it is thanks to it that I thought TWE was a viable option. They sound like a good pair of wired earphones.
> 
> ...



I got my NT01AX replaced today and all is great again (MT3 Version).

As of now, these are the still the most well rounded of all TWE offerings in the  market:

• Up to 10 hours playtime per charge (35 hours with charging case)
• Natural sounding with aptX and HDSS technology
• Reliable BT 5.0 connection with Qualcomm QCC3026 chipset
• Provided Spinfit CP350 eartips are great
• Priced reasonably at around (usually lower than) US$180

What's not to like about them? Some minor cosmetic quirks:

• Chrome finish requires extra care and is quite prone to scratches
• Charging lights on earpieces might not have the same brightness (inconsistent)


----------



## BobJS

clerkpalmer said:


> Cross shopping these two is like asking whether you should buy a Honda or a BMW.



I would get the Honda.  They both depreciate when you drive them off the lot and both have a virtual bulls-eye on them.  I should probably add I bought the MW07 when it was on sale at Best Buy for $225.


----------



## RobinFood

palestofwhite said:


> Okay good news! I'm allowed to exchange the NT01AX for one last time! Revision MT3 sounds so good...



Awesome news.

I was listening to some Vitamin Quartet tonight, and I can't believe how amazing strings are. They are, bar none, the best reproduction of string instruments I have ever heard.
I used to play violin 12 years ago, and you can FEEL the sappy horse hair on the bows rubbing against the strings. I love it! Trumpets too, they are just so textured.


----------



## david8613

this question is for those who have the sennheiser momentum true wirless, I did a firmware update that was released last week, and also did the update to the app that came later. when I first did the update for the buds everything seemed fine, great connection, very quick connection the app found it everytime. now I am finding I am having the cannot connect issue again. anyone else having this issue? battery drain problem still not solved I tested it this weekend.


----------



## 40760 (Apr 8, 2019)

RobinFood said:


> Awesome news.
> 
> I was listening to some Vitamin Quartet tonight, and I can't believe how amazing strings are. They are, bar none, the best reproduction of string instruments I have ever heard.
> I used to play violin 12 years ago, and you can FEEL the sappy horse hair on the bows rubbing against the strings. I love it! Trumpets too, they are just so textured.



I was skeptical at first, but the NT01AX have cast away my doubts on True Wireless technology. In fact, I have not picked up any of my other wired earbuds since I had them.
They have this appealing balance of naturalness in timbre and that recent bump in bass responsive is just so refreshing. I probably won't be looking at or acquiring any earphones for quite some time.


----------



## tayo15

NT01AX it Is!!


----------



## clerkpalmer

Ok. Someone help me find these in us. I need them.


----------



## david8613

not much info on those but I found this...

https://www.hardwarezone.com.sg/rev...al-nuarls-nt01-true-wireless-earbuds-reviewed


----------



## Nikostr8

is the soundpeats true free a rebrand of the QCY T1? they look the same


----------



## albau

Nikostr8 said:


> is the soundpeats true free a rebrand of the QCY T1? they look the same


Yes, they seem to. But there's no confirmation. Anyway in chi-fi world it looks like there are at most 5 original manufacturers and zillion rebrands under ridiculous names.


----------



## clerkpalmer

tayo15 said:


> As far as we know, no, but you can order them from the original site to the US or the Singapore StereoShop. Downside is if they come with defects, returns and shipping and handling will get expensive. So I have been told.



Well my internet skillsust be fading because I cannot figure out how to order these. The nuarl website takes me to yahoo Japan for checkout. Any other ideas ?


----------



## tayo15

clerkpalmer said:


> Well my internet skillsust be fading because I cannot figure out how to order these. The nuarl website takes me to yahoo Japan for checkout. Any other ideas ?



https://www.stereo.com.sg/nuarl-nt01ax-hdss-true-wireless-earphone.html

Either way you will have to ship internationally. The other route is amazon.jp


----------



## 40760 (Apr 8, 2019)

david8613 said:


> not much info on those but I found this...
> 
> https://www.hardwarezone.com.sg/rev...al-nuarls-nt01-true-wireless-earbuds-reviewed



Those are older model that's been replaced by newer mid-tier ones. The NT01AX is their current flagship.


----------



## clerkpalmer

Okay - ordered Nuarl.  Let's see if they live up to the hype. Thanks for the help.


----------



## tayo15

clerkpalmer said:


> Okay - ordered Nuarl.  Let's see if they live up to the hype. Thanks for the help.



Same here bud cheers*, now we wait.


----------



## david8613

Do you think you can post pics of the NT01AX in your ears, the pics I see on website they look enormous.


----------



## 05stisilver

clerkpalmer said:


> Okay - ordered Nuarl.  Let's see if they live up to the hype. Thanks for the help.


Where did you end up ordering them from?


----------



## actorlife

newtothegame1231 said:


> How do i order anbes or t1c in canada?


https://m.ebay.ca/sch/i.html?_from=...0.H0.XAnbes.TRS0&_nkw=Anbes+359+Bluetooth+5.0


----------



## Coladdict

Coladdict said:


> Ordered T1C, looking to order another pair ... Tiso i4 vs Anbes 359 ... Sabbat x12 Pro vs MifoO5 ... TIA



Bump ... TIA


----------



## hifi80sman

clerkpalmer said:


> Okay - ordered Nuarl.  Let's see if they live up to the hype. Thanks for the help.


Looking forward to the feedback, especially relative to the MW07, MTW, and E8.


----------



## LajostheHun

Got this yesterday as part of a lightning deal:      https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07PM383ZW/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Don't bother it's pretty bad. SBC only with it's HF artifacts to all to hear easily , and the left buds kept disconnecting. This is the fourth TWS I sent back the last month or so for various reasons. Amazon gonna ban me.


----------



## mjb152

I just bought my first pair of QCY T1C from ebay in the UK  £18.  They're rather good,  ever so slightly tinny at top volume.  
The buttons are a bit unusable as you press the buds into your ears , but for the price they're very good.  No bluetooth dropouts if I put my phone in any pockets (which used to happen with an older set of wired soundpeats)

I like the size and shape of these,  but I'd really like something louder.  Whats next up the chain ?


----------



## Slater

mjb152 said:


> The buttons are a bit unusable as you press the buds into your ears , but for the price they're very good



Agreed, that’s effing annoying. 

Putting them in the ears and also the case without pressing either button, requires some ninja skill I do not possess.


----------



## mjb152

Slater said:


> Agreed, that’s effing annoying.
> 
> Putting them in the ears and also the case without pressing either button, requires some ninja skill I do not possess.


plus I've resorted to putting a tiny piece of white tape on one just so I know which ear it should go in.


----------



## albau

mjb152 said:


> I like the size and shape of these,  but I'd really like something louder.  Whats next up the chain ?


Anbes 359. They're louder, better built, better case, volume controls, USB-c. But buttons are stiff as well.


----------



## mjb152

albau said:


> Anbes 359. They're louder, better built, better case, volume controls, USB-c. But buttons are stiff as well.


thanks,  can't see those at all in the UK yet,  but I'll keep looking


----------



## Nikostr8

is there any difference between QCY T1C and T2C? or its just the charging capacity in the case ? and the lid. It available in gearbest for 5 euros more (25€)  than the T1C on aliexpress (20€). If its worth the 5€ difference i could go for the T2C.


----------



## clerkpalmer

My nuarl arrive Thursday.  I had messaged Nuarl support about ordering in the US and they said no information at this time.  They also said if you order intentionally, there is no warranty.  I emailed them back and said what I assume they mean is there is no support in the US (makes sense) but I would hope they could be sent back to Japan if need be.  Still waiting on a response.  Hoping these are the TOTAL TW IEM others are saying they are.


----------



## tayo15

clerkpalmer said:


> My nuarl arrive Thursday.  I had messaged Nuarl support about ordering in the US and they said no information at this time.  They also said if you order intentionally, there is no warranty.  I emailed them back and said what I assume they mean is there is no support in the US (makes sense) but I would hope they could be sent back to Japan if need be.  Still waiting on a response.  Hoping these are the TOTAL TW IEM others are saying they are.



Which is why I ordered from stereoshop. Since they have their own warranty. The US doesnt have a distributor yet since they just hit the market.


----------



## clerkpalmer

tayo15 said:


> Which is why I ordered from stereoshop. Since they have their own warranty. The US doesnt have a distributor yet since they just hit the market.


I ordered from Stereoshop too.  Glad to hear there is some warranty support in the unlikely chance something is wrong.


----------



## DannyBai

Ridiculous that the qcy and tiso function better then the Sennheiser. I would not recommend Sennheiser ever after getting the Chinese twe’s


----------



## albau

DannyBai said:


> Ridiculous that the qcy and tiso function better then the Sennheiser. I would not recommend Sennheiser ever after getting the Chinese twe’s


Not to excuse the Senns but they have more complexity, at least compared to t1c, like transparency mode, auto pause, volume controls, loadable eq, the app. And then they still sound much better


----------



## howdy

DannyBai said:


> Ridiculous that the qcy and tiso function better then the Sennheiser. I would not recommend Sennheiser ever after getting the Chinese twe’s


How do you mean function better? I never have any issue's with mine since day one. They always auto connect they always do what I want it to. I do wish the app had a regular eq and the update for the battery would come out, but all in all they have been perfect for me and still my favorite of all the TW that I have. 
Not to diss what you mentioned, I'm glad you really like yours!


----------



## clerkpalmer

howdy said:


> How do you mean function better? I never have any issue's with mine since day one. They always auto connect they always do what I want it to. I do wish the app had a regular eq and the update for the battery would come out, but all in all they have been perfect for me and still my favorite of all the TW that I have.
> Not to diss what you mentioned, I'm glad you really like yours!



The biggest issue with the Senns is the fact that the battery drains in the charging case over time.  And if you are left with a dead case, the headphones won't turn off and can't be turned off manually.  This is a major misfire by Senn given their size and resources in the consumer electronics space.  The issue can be managed by keeping the case charged but if you find yourself with a dead case, it becomes supremely annoying to have the buds stay connected to your phone.


----------



## d3myz

Just a thought. I'm not as astute at presenting my thoughts as many of you blokes, but I have been using the Anbes 359's for 4 days now and thought i'd give my impressions. The only other TWS' I own  are the Syllable D900P, Pamu Scroll and QCY  T1-Pro's. I'd have to say compared to the Syllable's and QCY's which sound almost identical except for a bit more mid-bass from the Syllable's the Anbes have incredible sub-bass! Wow! I was not expecting that. Like it's been mentioned they have rolled off highs and recessed mids, but the two seem pretty balanced. I'm not sure  the term you  would use for vocal imaging in music but it sounds thin to me and like it's fighting for it's place in the mix, but not fitting. As far as sound stage, it sounds the same to me as the QCY's and the Syllables, quite narrow, but not an issue. the QCY's have more treble and makes audiobooks a touch clearer at lower volumes. The Anbes are definitely louder than either and seem to last a good four hours or more. Sound Isolation on the Anbes is excellent, but my major complaint is the fit. I just can't get them to feel comfortable in my ears, I've tried comply tips, Spiral dots, the stock silicone tips in S,M and L and they just seal too well which ends up giving me an ear ache. maybe I need to experiment with some tips like the slitted pioneers. All in all, I love the volume controls on the Anbes and they connect quickly. The dimmer leds are also very nice for use at bedtime. Hope that helps, My T1S/T1C's will be here on Thursday, I'm excited to compare.


----------



## DannyBai

albau said:


> Not to excuse the Senns but they have more complexity, at least compared to t1c, like transparency mode, auto pause, volume controls, loadable eq, the app. And then they still sound much better


I agree but...


howdy said:


> How do you mean function better? I never have any issue's with mine since day one. They always auto connect they always do what I want it to. I do wish the app had a regular eq and the update for the battery would come out, but all in all they have been perfect for me and still my favorite of all the TW that I have.
> Not to diss what you mentioned, I'm glad you really like yours!


I agree and like them a lot too but...


clerkpalmer said:


> The biggest issue with the Senns is the fact that the battery drains in the charging case over time.  And if you are left with a dead case, the headphones won't turn off and can't be turned off manually.  This is a major misfire by Senn given their size and resources in the consumer electronics space.  The issue can be managed by keeping the case charged but if you find yourself with a dead case, it becomes supremely annoying to have the buds stay connected to your phone.





albau said:


> Not to excuse the Senns but they have more complexity, at least compared to t1c, like transparency mode, auto pause, volume controls, loadable eq, the app. And then they still sound much better


This is the but. I charged the earphones in the case and haven't use them at all and in under a week, it's completely dead. A Senn product that costs $300 should not do this. I'm on iOS and the app never updates the buds to the current firmware either. These are huge flaws and I feel completely ripped off not matter how good they sound or have certain excellent features.


----------



## clerkpalmer

DannyBai said:


> I agree but...
> 
> I agree and like them a lot too but...
> 
> ...


Agree and the reviewers have given them a pass. We all deserve a refund.


----------



## korefuji

I noticed all those things and more, which was why I returned them promptly after buying them from Sennheiser direct. Garbage TWEs


----------



## sly_in_the_sky (Apr 10, 2019)

I Had Jabra 65t, B&O E8, Erin M2, M&D, Sabbat E12 and, and have now Senn MTW and QCY T1C. The QCY are good for the price, no doubt but for me, soundwise but also functionnalities can not compete with the Senns... With the last firmware, the Senns remains to me the best option for pure on the go listening sessions.


----------



## KafkaEsqueMajor

So having read through the posts here I have eliminated the choices down to Anbes 359 and the Tiso i4. But deciding which one to buy is a rather difficult choice so I made this post in hope someone can help me.
How is the comfort/sound/battery life between these two? The Tiso i4 is advertised to have 6H play time with Bluetooth 5, while Anbes 359 have 4.5H. What is the real time usage though? And has anyone used this while in the gym or outside running, do they stay in the ears or will they get loose/fall?


----------



## hifi80sman

LajostheHun said:


> Got this yesterday as part of a lightning deal:      https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07PM383ZW/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
> 
> Don't bother it's pretty bad. SBC only with it's HF artifacts to all to hear easily , and the left buds kept disconnecting. This is the fourth TWS I sent back the last month or so for various reasons. Amazon gonna ban me.


Thanks for the warning.  I was curious about those, given they are sort of 65t clones and marketed to someone looking at those.


----------



## LajostheHun

KafkaEsqueMajor said:


> So having read through the posts here I have eliminated the choices down to Anbes 359 and the Tiso i4. But deciding which one to buy is a rather difficult choice so I made this post in hope someone can help me.
> How is the comfort/sound/battery life between these two? The Tiso i4 is advertised to have 6H play time with Bluetooth 5, while Anbes 359 have 4.5H. What is the real time usage though? And has anyone used this while in the gym or outside running, do they stay in the ears or will they get loose/fall?


 I can only comment on the Anbes.
The battery was one of the weak spot, it lost 30% within 30 mins listening music, but it charged fast so I've seen that a none issue really. Fit is a very subjective matter but for me it was one of the reasons I sent it back.[the main reason was a connectivity problem] For best sound I needed to insert it just moderately but in return it felt like it will fall out, though it never did in reality, however I constantly felt I need to readjust them, and that was with the right tip.


----------



## webvan (Apr 10, 2019)

KafkaEsqueMajor said:


> So having read through the posts here I have eliminated the choices down to Anbes 359 and the Tiso i4. But deciding which one to buy is a rather difficult choice so I made this post in hope someone can help me.
> How is the comfort/sound/battery life between these two? The Tiso i4 is advertised to have 6H play time with Bluetooth 5, while Anbes 359 have 4.5H. What is the real time usage though? And has anyone used this while in the gym or *outside running*, do they stay in the ears or will they get loose/fall?


I've said it a few times before but to me the ideal TWEs for running are the Sabbat X12 thanks to their open earbud design. It's beyond annoying to run with IEM designs that seal the canal because there is a very annoying THUD each time you hit the ground. Besides they are very cheap, small, light, produce very pleasing sound and have great battery life. Oh you can maintain some awareness of your environment which is going to be useful in the street. Without music you can have normal conversations with people without removing or activating a transparency mode.


----------



## rhsauer

Does anyone on here know the procedure for resetting (clearing all prior pairings) for the MPOW T5?  I  think I may have inadvertently thrown out the manual (and can’t find one online).


----------



## actorlife (Apr 10, 2019)

KafkaEsqueMajor said:


> So having read through the posts here I have eliminated the choices down to Anbes 359 and the Tiso i4. But deciding which one to buy is a rather difficult choice so I made this post in hope someone can help me.
> How is the comfort/sound/battery life between these two? The Tiso i4 is advertised to have 6H play time with Bluetooth 5, while Anbes 359 have 4.5H. What is the real time usage though? And has anyone used this while in the gym or outside running, do they stay in the ears or will they get loose/fall?


I got about 5 hrs with medium volume with Anbes 359 just the other day. As far as comfort I'd try different tips to get the best comfort. Sony Hybrids tips are great I've been using them for years. I've never tried the Tiso. QSY with volume control is what I'm waiting for to see if they can do better than Anbes, so far none have dethroned it.


----------



## KafkaEsqueMajor

webvan said:


> I've said it a few times before but to me the ideal TWEs for running are the Sabbat X12 thanks to their open earbud design. It's beyond annoying to run with IEM designs that seal the canal because there is a very annoying THUD each time you hit the ground. Besides they are very cheap, small, light, produce very pleasing sound and have great battery life. Oh you can maintain some awareness of your environment which is going to be useful in the street. Without music you can have normal conversations with people without removing or activating a transparency mode.



Is there any sound leakage with it? And how is the bass?


----------



## Slater

Has anyone tried 1More TW:

https://usa.1more.com/collections/headphones/products/1more-stylish-true-wireless-in-ear-headphones

I have a few 1More products, and they generally make extremely high quality stuff that also has good sound.


----------



## albau

Slater said:


> Has anyone tried 1More TW:
> 
> https://usa.1more.com/collections/headphones/products/1more-stylish-true-wireless-in-ear-headphones
> 
> I have a few 1More products, and they generally make extremely high quality stuff that also has good sound.


Unfortunately for the price they don’t seem competitive - BT 4.1, just 2.5 hours, no volume controls, no transparency, no app. Not clear what codecs. But of course everything would be forgiven if they sound tremendous.


----------



## albau (Apr 10, 2019)

actorlife said:


> I got about 5 hrs with medium volume with Anbes 359 just the other day. As far as comfort I'd try different tips to get the best comfort. Sony Hybrids tips are great I've been using them for years. I've never tried the Tiso. QSY with volume control is what I'm waiting for to see if they can do better than Anbes, so far none have dethroned it.


Very much same impressions as mine. Around 4.5-5 hours on a charge, very comfortable to me - small, light, good isolation, stay secure inside ears during gym activities. Which is rare with my ears, but I even didn’t have to roll the tips. Large stock silicons worked right out of the box. Only difference from you is that I really don’t need QCY to dethrone Anbes - I have MW07 . To me QCY T1C didn’t sound better than Anbes to begin with, and didn’t win me over with construction or the case. Thus I feel there’s no point of waiting for the version of same, just with volume controls.


----------



## ratdog

What's the best value wireless I.E. I can get for $30-$50 on Amazon right now?


----------



## albau

ratdog said:


> What's the best value wireless I.E. I can get for $30-$50 on Amazon right now?


Anbes 359 or QCY T1C. Just scroll back  last few pages of this thread


----------



## actorlife

ratdog said:


> What's the best value wireless I.E. I can get for $30-$50 on Amazon right now?


Look above for the answer.


----------



## actorlife (Apr 11, 2019)

albau said:


> Very much same impressions as mine. Around 4.5-5 hours on a charge, very comfortable to me - small, light, good isolation, stay secure inside ears during gym activities. Which is rare with my ears, but I even didn’t have to roll the tips. Large stock silicons worked right out of the box. Only difference from you is that I really don’t need QCY to dethrone Anbes - I have MW07 . To me QCY T1C didn’t sound better than Anbes to begin with, and didn’t win me over with construction or the case. Thus I feel there’s no point of waiting for the version of same, just with volume controls.


I tried ordering the QCY from a ebay seller and never got them. I don't know something is telling me to stay away from them. Although I'm curious about the SQ with volume control. Right now I'm content with the 4(Funcl W1(no volume control SQ is so good though) , Anbes 359(fantastic) , Graphene W1(Great SQ) and Fannel(just ok 4.2 but not recommended. Gotta say good call quality, although only on the left side. Got it cheap, so not mad) and the different pairs I have right now. I highly recommend any of the 3 I mentioned.


----------



## psikey (Apr 11, 2019)

Does mine count as fully wireless !

Guess not with my short wire but Sound blood awesome to be honest via LDAC and at least 8 hrs battery life.

 




Do have some freebee Samsung Galaxy Buds coming but sure I won't be using them.​


----------



## clerkpalmer

psikey said:


> Does mine count as fully wireless !
> 
> Guess not with my short wire but Sound blood awesome to be honest via LDAC and at least 8 hrs battery life.
> 
> ...


Nope. But it looks great. What iems and fiio is that?


----------



## psikey

clerkpalmer said:


> Nope. But it looks great. What iems and fiio is that?



Fiio BTR3; Fiio short mmcx cable; Shure SE846's


----------



## d3myz (Apr 11, 2019)

Got the QCY T1S today. Color me impressed. They have a substantial amount more bass then my T1-pros, but quite a bit less treble which is great for the kind of music I listen to (Metal, Post Rock, Trance etc.) and seem to be fine with my audiobooks. The mids and highs are much cleaner than the 359's to me. but they can be a little bright in some songs. I really like them so far. Now all I need is a pair of TWS' that have the bass and volume of the Anbes 359's have and the mids and highs the T1S has


----------



## howdy

For all you Sennheiser TWS owners the 1.2.5 update on Android is finally available. Mine is updating now, says it can take up to an hour. Hope this makes the battery charger issue all better.


----------



## hifi80sman

howdy said:


> For all you Sennheiser TWS owners the 1.2.5 update on Android is finally available. Mine is updating now, says it can take up to an hour. Hope this makes the battery charger issue all better.


Meh, it will make it "better", but it's still there, just not as quick.


----------



## howdy

hifi80sman said:


> Meh, it will make it "better", but it's still there, just not as quick.


You have it on Apple? If so hopefully they did something different for Android. I've got mine charging and will see how long it lasts.


----------



## chinmie

psikey said:


> Does mine count as fully wireless !
> 
> Guess not with my short wire but Sound blood awesome to be honest via LDAC and at least 8 hrs battery life.
> 
> ...



unfortunately not, but still a great setup though.. nice custom short cable  
i also use ES100 or straight up bluetooth neckband when using my iems outdoor, but still the magic and convenience of true wireless are more luring. some might argue the loss off sound quality, but for me most of the time the benefits gained are much better



d3myz said:


> Got the QCY T1S today. Color me impressed. They have a substantial amount more bass then my T1-pros, but quite a bit less treble which is great for the kind of music I listen to (Metal, Post Rock, Trance etc.) and seem to be fine with my audiobooks. The mids and highs are much cleaner than the 359's to me. but they can be a little bright in some songs. I really like them so far. Now all I need is a pair of TWS' that have the bass and volume of the Anbes 359's have and the mids and highs the T1S has



thanks for the impression. I'm now certain to pass the Anbes 359 for now if the mids and highs are better on the T1C. volume control is indeed useful, but most of the time i could be content just by using the phone to control it. what i want from this chifi is the capability to at least connect to two devices simultaneously. so far only the Jabra 65t that had that can do this... shame the sound, fit, and the annoying NFMI made me got rid of it


----------



## LouisArmstrong

Hi all,

I have purchased the LV version yesterday and am wondering the 3.5 hours claimed is actual play time or if it still drains battery even if I am not listening. The reason I ask is that the only listening time is when I commute and during lunch hour, which is less than three hours, and if I can help it I’d rather not carry the charging case around.


----------



## Dobrescu George

I made a lil video about MW07 from Master&Dynamic


----------



## Coladdict

Sabbat x12 Pro or Mifo O5 Professional ... Which one would you pick ... TIA


----------



## d3myz

chinmie said:


> unfortunately not, but still a great setup though.. nice custom short cable
> i also use ES100 or straight up bluetooth neckband when using my iems outdoor, but still the magic and convenience of true wireless are more luring. some might argue the loss off sound quality, but for me most of the time the benefits gained are much better
> 
> 
> ...





chinmie said:


> unfortunately not, but still a great setup though.. nice custom short cable
> i also use ES100 or straight up bluetooth neckband when using my iems outdoor, but still the magic and convenience of true wireless are more luring. some might argue the loss off sound quality, but for me most of the time the benefits gained are much better
> 
> 
> ...


Honestly, if you have the coin, i'd pick up both. The 359's, sound really good, they charge insanely fast and last for a good 4-4.5 hours and the volume is MUCH louder than the T1C/S'


----------



## chinmie

Coladdict said:


> Sabbat x12 Pro or Mifo O5 Professional ... Which one would you pick ... TIA



different form factor.. not really apple to apple. but i would suggest avoid the mifo pro version and get the standard version instead: cheaper and just sound better than the pro

so get the sabbat if you want open design, or mifo standard if you want sound isolation. both are great for the price


----------



## magi44ken

RobinFood said:


> I will be honest, for me, the NT01ax has the best sound provided a little white noise doesn't bother you.
> 
> They are my second favorite pair of audio gear ever, only the ER4XR is better, but I am more likely to grab these first for convenience and comfort.
> 
> ...



How is the microphone quality when talking inside the car or outside like a park? Are the buttons pretty responsive when you press them? Meaning don't have to push too hard .


----------



## chinmie

d3myz said:


> Honestly, if you have the coin, i'd pick up both. The 359's, sound really good, they charge insanely fast and last for a good 4-4.5 hours and the volume is MUCH louder than the T1C/S'



it's not about the coin, per se... the "do you really need this many?  looks from my wife and son 

volume-wise the T1C is loud enough at around 70 to 80 percent of my phone. it did however became low in volume a while ago after i updated my phone's firmware..that the only way to made it loud is to set the "Media Volume Sync" to "On"...but i don't like this setting because it messes up my other bluetooth earphones that have volume control.

i have found a solution though: by unpairing the T1C, reset it (pressing the button for a few seconds while on the case)  then pair it up again to the phone. now i can set the "Media Volume Sync" off and still have the T1C volume at ample amount


----------



## RobinFood

magi44ken said:


> How is the microphone quality when talking inside the car or outside like a park? Are the buttons pretty responsive when you press them? Meaning don't have to push too hard .



The defective one I had before was absolutely horrible for calls. I haven't tried the one I have now for calls since I don't call often and am more likely to use Sabbat for calls given how comfortable they are.

I will try it out if I can.

The buttons take some getting used to because of where they are. You have to sandwich the whole unit between your fingers. When yoi get yhe hang of it they work great.


----------



## Coladdict

chinmie said:


> different form factor.. not really apple to apple. but i would suggest avoid the mifo pro version and get the standard version instead: cheaper and just sound better than the pro
> 
> so get the sabbat if you want open design, or mifo standard if you want sound isolation. both are great for the price



Thanks.  Which one has a clearer mid and high?  Prefer better mid/high than bass ... TIA


----------



## chinmie

Coladdict said:


> Thanks.  Which one has a clearer mid and high?  Prefer better mid/high than bass ... TIA



between the mifo and sabbat? the sabbat. if you like mids and highs, the T1C is also a good pick


----------



## Coladdict

chinmie said:


> between the mifo and sabbat? the sabbat. if you like mids and highs, the T1C is also a good pick



I'm sold.  Thanks.
https://www.amazon.ca/OKCSC-Bluetoo...=1555076252&s=gateway&sprefix=sabbat+x&sr=8-1


----------



## hanspedabexter

What do you guys think of the Sennheiser Momentum True Wireless? Really consider buying a pair, but maybe there's a better alternative in that price range?
Thread has a lot of pages so it's become really hard to find a straight answer


----------



## clerkpalmer

Just fired up my Nuarls hot off the plane from Singapore.  First impressions are very good.  Quick pairing, nice premium feel and design.  SQ is excellent.  I'm not sure I'm ready to declare them better than the MW07 but they aren't far off. They are more neutral than the MW07, less warm and have more overall clarity.  They remind me more of the Senns in terms of tonality versus the MW07.  The bass is more controlled than the Senns which I prefer.  I'd definitely rank them equal if not ahead of the Senns for SQ. 

More listening to be done but this feels like a good purchase for the approx. $200 paid particularly if you are looking for a balanced clear sound signature.  If they could get these to the US for $150 on Amazon, I think they'd be a sleeper hit. I do hear the noise floor mentioned above - not sure what that's about but it's no big deal and disappears once the music starts.

will post more impressions.

Thanks for the tips upthread.


----------



## actorlife

Coladdict said:


> Sabbat x12 Pro or Mifo O5 Professional ... Which one would you pick ... TIA


Get the Anbes 359 or Funcl W1. I will not recommend the X12. The sound is a bit muffled and my right earbud stopped working less than 2 weeks. I have not heard the mifo, but peeps here like it.


----------



## actorlife

These look interesting: 
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07K2PJBZP/ref=cm_sw_r_sms_apa_i_ZQkSCbEDCA4AR


----------



## 40760

Looks like Nuarl just announced a new colour for the NT01AX. NT01AX-BM or also know as "Black Metallic".


----------



## clerkpalmer

palestofwhite said:


> Looks like Nuarl just announced a new colour for the NT01AX. NT01AX-BM or also know as "Black Metallic".



Well I sure as crap would have preferred that.  Oh well.


----------



## 40760

clerkpalmer said:


> Well I sure as **** would have preferred that.  Oh well.



My exact sentiments! Argghhh... @RobinFood are you going to return yours to get this instead?


----------



## RobinFood

palestofwhite said:


> My exact sentiments! Argghhh... @RobinFood are you going to return yours to get this instead?



No, I like the black gold color, and being in Japan I am sure I won't have any problems getting support for my unit in the future having already talked to the company.
Having seen their NT01B in black it doesn't look as good as the black gold of the NT01AX.

That being said, I am waiting for them to make an NT01 with the QCC5000 SOC when other units start to hit with the chip. These Japanese TWE companies have a track record for picking them up and re-updating their sets fairly quickly, and Nuarl was offering upgrades from NT01 sets to the NT01AX a while ago. I am going to keep my eyes peeled for that instead.


----------



## 40760

RobinFood said:


> No, I like the black gold color, and being in Japan I am sure I won't have any problems getting support for my unit in the future having already talked to the company.
> Having seen their NT01B in black it doesn't look as good as the black gold of the NT01AX.
> 
> That being said, I am waiting for them to make an NT01 with the QCC5000 SOC when other units start to hit with the chip. These Japanese TWE companies have a track record for picking them up and re-updating their sets fairly quickly, and Nuarl was offering upgrades from NT01 sets to the NT01AX a while ago. I am going to keep my eyes peeled for that instead.



My current NT01AX in "Black Gold" is pretty nostalgic and reminds me of a bronze Shure SE530 I used to own.

But other than that, I'd always prefer a more discrete colour like black when given with a choice.


----------



## RobinFood

palestofwhite said:


> My current NT01AX in "Black Gold" is pretty nostalgic and reminds me of a bronze Shure SE530 I used to own.
> 
> But other than that, I'd always prefer a more discrete colour like black when given with a choice.



I don't know if it is possible to be discrete with something sticking out of your ear that much 

Sure, it is black metallic and not the black from the NT01b, but I didn't like it in black. It made it look cheap. 

And anyways, my wife has already accepted the NT01ax in black gold as something I just own and not another new, expensive and redundant purchase I made...


----------



## 40760 (Apr 12, 2019)

RobinFood said:


> I don't know if it is possible to be discrete with something sticking out of your ear that much
> 
> Sure, it is black metallic and not the black from the NT01b, but I didn't like it in black. It made it look cheap.
> 
> And anyways, my wife has already accepted the NT01ax in black gold as something I just own and not another new, expensive and redundant purchase I made...



A wife's acceptance of expensive audio gear is of utmost importance for married men like us... 

I shall also proudly wear my black gold pair, as my wife was pretty pissed when she had to accompany me to the distributor twice to address the cosmetic issues...


----------



## hifi80sman

howdy said:


> You have it on Apple? If so hopefully they did something different for Android. I've got mine charging and will see how long it lasts.


I have both an iPhone Xs Max (AAC) and a Galaxy S8, which I use to run things from aptX & LDAC.  Once the firmware is updated, you'll notice the drain issue is not as rapid as it was before, but it will still happen.  I haven't actually timed it precisely, but I want to say if it's charged on Monday, the case will be dead on Friday.


----------



## nc8000

howdy said:


> You have it on Apple? If so hopefully they did something different for Android. I've got mine charging and will see how long it lasts.



I can’t imagine that the fw in the buds is different depending on what platform you did the update on. The app on the other hand could be different


----------



## 05stisilver

clerkpalmer said:


> Just fired up my Nuarls hot off the plane from Singapore.  First impressions are very good.  Quick pairing, nice premium feel and design.  SQ is excellent.  I'm not sure I'm ready to declare them better than the MW07 but they aren't far off. They are more neutral than the MW07, less warm and have more overall clarity.  They remind me more of the Senns in terms of tonality versus the MW07.  The bass is more controlled than the Senns which I prefer.  I'd definitely rank them equal if not ahead of the Senns for SQ.
> 
> More listening to be done but this feels like a good purchase for the approx. $200 paid particularly if you are looking for a balanced clear sound signature.  If they could get these to the US for $150 on Amazon, I think they'd be a sleeper hit. I do hear the noise floor mentioned above - not sure what that's about but it's no big deal and disappears once the music starts.
> 
> ...



Thanks. I was waiting on your impressions. I'm ordering them tonight. Assuming you are in the US what shipping method did you use? The free shipping or the Fedex or DHL?


----------



## clerkpalmer

05stisilver said:


> Thanks. I was waiting on your impressions. I'm ordering them tonight. Assuming you are in the US what shipping method did you use? The free shipping or the Fedex or DHL?


TNT was a little cheaper than DHL so I went with that.  Said 2 days but it took 3 business day.  They got held up by 1 day.  Not too bad.


----------



## Ypsilon

05stisilver said:


> Thanks. I was waiting on your impressions. I'm ordering them tonight. Assuming you are in the US what shipping method did you use? The free shipping or the Fedex or DHL?


I ordered the NT01AX from Stereo two days ago and opted for the free shipping to Norway. The free shipping turned out to be Fedex International Economy, at least for me, so it doesn't seem to be any different from the Fedex International Economy option at 33 USD. It's already reached Germany, though "scheduled delivery" is in another 12 days (so 14 days total). Hoping it arrives sooner...


----------



## turbobb

actorlife said:


> These look interesting:
> https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07K2PJBZP/ref=cm_sw_r_sms_apa_i_ZQkSCbEDCA4AR


I had these and while they were decent, they stuck out a bit too far and wouldn't be great for gym/running as most of the weight is bore on the outer edges and would be jarred lose. They are insanely loud, but the SQ is just so so, it's SBC and the implementation leaves it a bit grainy sounding. For under $30, they're not a bad choice by any means but I'd personally pay a little more for something better or even consider the QCY's (I've not personally tried them but there's been quite a bit of praise over the past few pages for them).


----------



## JOSELICHI

Whats your opinion about Anbes 360?


----------



## BigZ12

Ypsilon said:


> I ordered the NT01AX from Stereo two days ago and opted for the free shipping to Norway. The free shipping turned out to be Fedex International Economy, at least for me, so it doesn't seem to be any different from the Fedex International Economy option at 33 USD. It's already reached Germany, though "scheduled delivery" is in another 12 days (so 14 days total). Hoping it arrives sooner...


Can you provide me with a link? I'm from Norway, and want to order the NT01AX too


----------



## Ypsilon

BigZ12 said:


> Can you provide me with a link? I'm from Norway, and want to order the NT01AX too


Here you go!

Note that Stereo doesn't offer the black metallic colour for it at this time, if you would prefer that.


----------



## BigZ12

Ypsilon said:


> Here you go!
> 
> Note that Stereo doesn't offer the black metallic colour for it at this time, if you would prefer that.


Thanks. Color is not too important, but if I could, I would buy the black metallic. You are sure to get the latest revision (was it MT3) from Stereo?


----------



## clerkpalmer

BigZ12 said:


> Thanks. Color is not too important, but if I could, I would buy the black metallic. You are sure to get the latest revision (was it MT3) from Stereo?


Mine are mt3.


----------



## BigZ12

And you paid SGD 236.55? No coupons or anything? 
And Ypsilon, we lucky Norwegians must pay additional NOK 160,- in "tollklarering" and 25% VAT on the total package value...


----------



## clerkpalmer

BigZ12 said:


> And you paid SGD 236.55? No coupons or anything?
> And Ypsilon, we lucky Norwegians must pay additional NOK 160,- in "tollklarering" and 25% VAT on the total package value...


Correct. No coupons.


----------



## mikp (Apr 12, 2019)

hmm, maybe higher than 160 if fedex delivers it..160 is posten under 3000nok or something.
im waiting for qcc5100, it is going to be expenisve importing it.


----------



## bubsdaddy

Slater said:


> I’m sure you’ll love the Auvios. I use them on a lot of my IEMs, not just the QS1/T1C.




Ok. I tried the Auvios and they do sound great. I am having an issue with the qcy t1c fitting back in the charging case. I looked and the auvio is slightly taller than the Sony hybrid. How have you made it work/


----------



## actorlife

turbobb said:


> I had these and while they were decent, they stuck out a bit too far and wouldn't be great for gym/running as most of the weight is bore on the outer edges and would be jarred lose. They are insanely loud, but the SQ is just so so, it's SBC and the implementation leaves it a bit grainy sounding. For under $30, they're not a bad choice by any means but I'd personally pay a little more for something better or even consider the QCY's (I've not personally tried them but there's been quite a bit of praise over the past few pages for them).


Thank you I almost bought them. I thought about it sticking out and that kind of bothered me. Too bad the SQ is bad. Since you have to take the reviews with a grain of salt I still was curious about them. Ah yes the QCY are on my radar, but I'm waiting till they have volume control on hopefully the newer ones. If they are reasonably priced ill get them. I truly like my Anbes 359/Hopshoop W1 and I'm waiting for something as good or better.


----------



## actorlife

JOSELICHI said:


> Whats your opinion about Anbes 360?


Hola  JOSELICHI I'm curious too since I have the anbes 359 and love em. I'm waiting for the price to go down on the 360. I bet they sound great.


----------



## actorlife (Apr 12, 2019)

Another flash sale. Anyone try these? 6hr battery:
Wireless Earbuds, Alterola IE600 Smallest Bluetooth 5.0 True Wireless Earbuds Stable Connection HD Stereo Sound Waterproof with 24H Playtime Charging Case, Build-in Mic https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07MYZK9NT/ref=cm_sw_r_sms_apa_i_MMrSCbCYSXT47
Review is interesting check it:



And another flash sale. Claim to have 7-9 hrs battery with volume control:
Wireless Earbuds TEZER X20 Bluetooth 5.0 True Wireless Earphones IPX5 Automatic Connection 36H Playtime Hi-Fi Stereo with Built-in Mic and Charging Case for Travelling and Exercise https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07H3NRKYT/ref=cm_sw_r_sms_apa_i_-TrSCb53K241S

*EDIT*: I think they are basically the same Earbuds with different names. I just bought both and we will see which wins and stays.


----------



## Slater

bubsdaddy said:


> Ok. I tried the Auvios and they do sound great. I am having an issue with the qcy t1c fitting back in the charging case. I looked and the auvio is slightly taller than the Sony hybrid. How have you made it work/



My Auvios fit the charge case, but be aware that I wear medium tips. I don’t know if large tips would fit, but small and medium definitely fit.

If you’re willing to do some physical mods to the case, you can make any tip in the world fit no matter how big (including foam tips etc).


----------



## RobinFood

magi44ken said:


> How is the microphone quality when talking inside the car or outside like a park? Are the buttons pretty responsive when you press them? Meaning don't have to push too hard .



No complaints from the wife on a call. She didn't notice I was on a TWE. Sound in both ears was pretty clear, but the white slight noise was there.

Tested with a voice recorder app, voice sounded really clear, but if I moved my head, there was a brushing sound while I talked. Overall pretty decent experience.


----------



## bubsdaddy

Slater said:


> My Auvios fit the charge case, but be aware that I wear medium tips. I don’t know if large tips would fit, but small and medium definitely fit.
> 
> If you’re willing to do some physical mods to the case, you can make any tip in the world fit no matter how big (including foam tips etc).


I use the mediums also. I’ll try again.


----------



## tayo15

Just got the NT01AX and wow these are decent thank you yall!!! As close to my elibuds Sabia V6 earbuds. These are actually gassy ans not neutral like people made them seem. Heck they really have good resolution.


----------



## clerkpalmer

tayo15 said:


> Just got the NT01AX and wow these are decent thank you yall!!! As close to my elibuds Sabia V6 earbuds. These are actually gassy ans not neutral like people made them seem. Heck they really have good resolution.



Just decent? ...


----------



## Slater

bubsdaddy said:


> I use the mediums also. I’ll try again.



Maybe try giving the buds a gentle push once they’re magnetically in the case, just to make sure they’re seated all the way. Just don’t push the button or they will turn back on.


----------



## 40760 (Apr 12, 2019)

tayo15 said:


> Just got the NT01AX and wow these are decent thank you yall!!! As close to my elibuds Sabia V6 earbuds. These are actually gassy ans not neutral like people made them seem. Heck they really have good resolution.



I have the Elibuds Pearl and I thought the NT01AX sounded great. Since they're dynamic, use them for awhile and let the drivers burn in.


----------



## d3myz

Can someone explain to me the idea behind burn-in? I understand that your ears adjust the the frequencies of new ear buds over time, but burning drivers in? I'd think that as soon as the current goes to the drivers and the start producing sound for a couple seconds they should be "burned in" no?


----------



## 40760

d3myz said:


> Can someone explain to me the idea behind burn-in? I understand that your ears adjust the the frequencies of new ear buds over time, but burning drivers in? I'd think that as soon as the current goes to the drivers and the start producing sound for a couple seconds they should be "burned in" no?



Sorry if I opened a can of worms...


----------



## RobinFood

d3myz said:


> Can someone explain to me the idea behind burn-in? I understand that your ears adjust the the frequencies of new ear buds over time, but burning drivers in? I'd think that as soon as the current goes to the drivers and the start producing sound for a couple seconds they should be "burned in" no?



The idea is the same as breaking in a new sofa. Brand new it is a little stiff, but over time it gets mushy and comfortable and stabilizes to the mush that is your favorite sofa.


----------



## d3myz

RobinFood said:


> The idea is the same as breaking in a new sofa. Brand new it is a little stiff, but over time it gets mushy and comfortable and stabilizes to the mush that is your favorite sofa.


What's the science behind it?


----------



## RobinFood

d3myz said:


> What's the science behind it?



The science has more to do with large drivers than these small micro drivers, but it becomes softer from moving back and forth, can move more freely and becomes more responsive.

For large studio monitors it is proven to have an effect but most scientific tests done on small driver show almost no measurable difference. 

Still, if you buy enough cheap chinese earbuds it can make you a believer for sure.


----------



## tayo15

clerkpalmer said:


> Just decent? ...



Actually i take it back they are by far amazing. They have great resolution and dont lack in bass at all. Way better than airpods they are really good.


----------



## tayo15

palestofwhite said:


> I have the Elibuds Pearl and I thought the NT01AX sounded great. Since they're dynamic, use them for awhile and let the drivers burn in.



Where did you get the elibuds pearl?? Have you had the elibuds v6 before?? I would put the NT01AX on par with my elibuds v6 and those are my favorite pair of ear buds, so far no other buds up to $100 beat those and i was looking for an upgrade. At this rate my elibuds v6, NT01AX and a gaming headset might be all i need. Might just sell off my high end stuff and stick with these beauties.


----------



## tayo15

I take it back the NT01AX are crisp, clear, lack no bass. Very detailed, good resolution. I have played Crystal Castles, Counting Crows, Justice - Planisphere. 11:30 (DATA Remix), Jay Rock - Win, Outlast Wheelz of steel, Wonder Girls - Tell Me, Carl Orff - O Fortuna, Heaven - Bryan Adams, the list goes on but they are on par with some of my wired cans. I own Sonorous IV and EMU Teaks, Ahh m40x, hd 25ii, sony vr6, sennheiser momentum, B&O h6 second gen, hd580. Highly recommend. They arent that bad in the subway either, decent isolation.


----------



## d3myz

RobinFood said:


> The science has more to do with large drivers than these small micro drivers, but it becomes softer from moving back and forth, can move more freely and becomes more responsive.
> 
> For large studio monitors it is proven to have an effect but most scientific tests done on small driver show almost no measurable difference.
> 
> Still, if you buy enough cheap chinese earbuds it can make you a believer for sure.


Makes sense, I actually bought another pair of Syllable D900Ps because they claimed to be IPX7, they aren't, but i compared the new and old, pair I've had for like six months and boy do they sound different, the old ones sound much nicer.


----------



## magi44ken

RobinFood said:


> No complaints from the wife on a call. She didn't notice I was on a TWE. Sound in both ears was pretty clear, but the white slight noise was there.
> 
> Tested with a voice recorder app, voice sounded really clear, but if I moved my head, there was a brushing sound while I talked. Overall pretty decent experience.



Thank you so much for taking the time to test it. Sounds promising.


----------



## actorlife

Flash sale:
Anbes 359 Bluetooth 5.0 True Wireless 

Https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07M8LWN2G/ref=cm_sw_r_sms_apa_i_HAKSCbPFJJBZY


----------



## Slater

Anyone ever tried any of these?


----------



## sfleming

I recently purchased the Anbes 359 and do like them for sound and fit, but I'm finding the connection with my iPhone XR frequently pauses during play, and I'll likely return the Anbes to try something else. I'm not sure if doing that is a waste of time given that that's just bluetooth tech and it'll just be a similar experience with a different iem, but sputtering every 10 minutes is not acceptable and I feel I have to try. Oh well on to the next. 

-Steve


----------



## actorlife

actorlife said:


> Another flash sale. Anyone try these? 6hr battery:
> Wireless Earbuds, Alterola IE600 Smallest Bluetooth 5.0 True Wireless Earbuds Stable Connection HD Stereo Sound Waterproof with 24H Playtime Charging Case, Build-in Mic https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07MYZK9NT/ref=cm_sw_r_sms_apa_i_MMrSCbCYSXT47
> Review is interesting check it:
> 
> ...



Alterola IE600 are winning by a landslide. Clarity is good, but bass kicks ass as well. The TEZER X20 on the other hand don't sound as good and can't stay connected. Tried various times and keeps disconnecting. They are going back. Alterola IE600 on the other hand sound good, but not sure if they are worth keeping since my others sound just as good. We will see. Will test call quality(reviews have said they are good) and test Netflix with dialogue sq.


----------



## albau

sfleming said:


> I recently purchased the Anbes 359 and do like them for sound and fit, but I'm finding the connection with my iPhone XR frequently pauses during play, and I'll likely return the Anbes to try something else. I'm not sure if doing that is a waste of time given that that's just bluetooth tech and it'll just be a similar experience with a different iem, but sputtering every 10 minutes is not acceptable and I feel I have to try. Oh well on to the next


Mine don’t have any problem like this with my Samsung S9, nor wit iPad. But are you sure that your buds are charged more than 30%? I ask because pauses is how Anbes warns about low battery. It first starts like every 10 minutes and then gets more frequent.


----------



## sfleming

Thanks I appreciate that advice. Full overnight charge before first use Friday night at the gym, and did the same thing again for today Saturday afternoon. I thought maybe it was interference there so recharged at home and had similar struggles with dropout with just me and my phone tonight. They are back in the box with a return label. Maybe I got a bum pair. Drat.

-Steve


----------



## actorlife

sfleming said:


> Thanks I appreciate that advice. Full overnight charge before first use Friday night at the gym, and did the same thing again for today Saturday afternoon. I thought maybe it was interference there so recharged at home and had similar struggles with dropout with just me and my phone tonight. They are back in the box with a return label. Maybe I got a bum pair. Drat.
> 
> -Steve


I bet they are a bum pair. I hope you give them another try. I use android and they work perfectly since I got them so I really can't comment on iPhone. Are you streaming or using flac/mp3 files?


----------



## Nikostr8

in the end i bought a T1C for 17€ on aliexpress, if only i had more coupons...


----------



## BobJS

actorlife said:


> These look interesting:
> https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07K2PJBZP/ref=cm_sw_r_sms_apa_i_ZQkSCbEDCA4AR



They sound pretty damn good.  Not quite the best form factor but amazing for the money.


----------



## actorlife (Apr 14, 2019)

actorlife said:


> Alterola IE600 are winning by a landslide. Clarity is good, but bass kicks ass as well. The TEZER X20 on the other hand don't sound as good and can't stay connected. Tried various times and keeps disconnecting. They are going back. Alterola IE600 on the other hand sound good, but not sure if they are worth keeping since my others sound just as good. We will see. Will test call quality(reviews have said they are good) and test Netflix with dialogue sq.


Alterola IE600 are by far the smallest wireless Earbuds I have. The soundstage is not as wide as the anbes 359. These lean towards more neutral, but sound good. The low end is great and maybe the best I've heard on a wireless Earbuds. I may end up keeping them for size and sq. I still need to try the call quality. I may edit this tonight and let yall know.


----------



## LouisArmstrong

If I turn off bluetooth on my iPhone, would the MW07 shut down as well or would it continue to drain battery? I don't want to carry the case around all the time.


----------



## LajostheHun

RobinFood said:


> No complaints from the wife on a call. She didn't notice I was on a TWE. Sound in both ears was pretty clear, but the white slight noise was there.
> 
> Tested with a voice recorder app, voice sounded really clear, but if I moved my head, there was a brushing sound while I talked. Overall pretty decent experience.


sorry which TWS are we talking about, there is so many mini conversations going on I lost the thread. thanks


----------



## LajostheHun

sfleming said:


> Thanks I appreciate that advice. Full overnight charge before first use Friday night at the gym, and did the same thing again for today Saturday afternoon. I thought maybe it was interference there so recharged at home and had similar struggles with dropout with just me and my phone tonight. They are back in the box with a return label. Maybe I got a bum pair. Drat.
> 
> -Steve


I had connectivity issues also, developed after a few days of use, don't know why it was rock solid before that. My phone is an Android LG V30


----------



## LajostheHun

LouisArmstrong said:


> If I turn off bluetooth on my iPhone, would the MW07 shut down as well or would it continue to drain battery? I don't want to carry the case around all the time.


most [battery powered] BT products shuts down if they are not paired within a certain time that includes manual disconnect since it will return to pairing mode again.  but I can't vouch for the MW07 for sure as I don't own one. It's on my radar though.


----------



## webvan

assassin10000 said:


> The leather punches I ordered showed up today. They work great to mod the earbud foams I'm using on the Sabbat X12 Pro. Used the 4mm size.



My 4mm punch came in today and I modded the foam covers. The X12 do keep the extra bass from the foam but this mod "unveil" the mids and highs a lot ! They're almost a bit "aggressive"/"ticklish" now, I guess I need to get used to them a bit. Anyway thanks for the tip !


----------



## david8613

So are the anbes 359 still the best budget truewireless in the 30.00 to 40.00 range? I left my back pack at home, and all my true wireless buds were in there! I am going nuts here at work not having any true wireless headphones to use!!!!


----------



## actorlife

david8613 said:


> So are the anbes 359 still the best budget truewireless in the 30.00 to 40.00 range? I left my back pack at home, and all my true wireless buds were in there! I am going nuts here at work not having any true wireless headphones to use!!!!


IMHO it's the best budget TW out there. Get them.


----------



## god-bluff

A new contender: https://www.cyrusaudio.com/products/soundbuds/ from a Cyrious company. Only £79 !!!!!


----------



## david8613

actorlife said:


> IMHO it's the best budget TW out there. Get them.



oki doki, order today. I hope they are at least on par sound quality wise with the Jabra 65t active. I know they wont be at level with sennheiser momentum wireless, I need something I can leave in my desk for emergencies.


----------



## d3myz

god-bluff said:


> A new contender: https://www.cyrusaudio.com/products/soundbuds/ from a Cyrious company. Only £79 !!!!!


You think? They look like older tech to me.

 Bluetooth V4.2 HFP V1.7, HSP V1.2 A2DP V1.3 ACRCP V1.6

• 80 hours standby time Approximately 3 hours talk time

• Up to 2.5 hours playing time (depending on volume and music content)

• Recharge 3 times without external power using the supplied Cyrus recharge case

• IPX5 rating, resistant to water splashes and jets

• Up to 10m range in free air

• Light weight, only 4.5g per ear


----------



## david8613

I just saw this
https://www-windowscentral-com.cdn....3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&amp_tf=From%20%251%24s


----------



## mjb152

d3myz said:


> You think? They look like older tech to me.
> 
> Bluetooth V4.2 HFP V1.7, HSP V1.2 A2DP V1.3 ACRCP V1.6
> 
> ...


yeah but Cyrus are a decent audio company,  if their amps are anything to go by these should be first class.  They look like they stick out a bit,  but I'm hoping they sound amazing


----------



## god-bluff

They would not put their name to anything that didn't sound good.


----------



## cigarello

actorlife said:


> Alterola IE600 are by far the smallest wireless Earbuds I have. The soundstage is not as wide as the anbes 359. These lean towards more neutral, but sound good. The low end is great and maybe the best I've heard on a wireless Earbuds. I may end up keeping them for size and sq. I still need to try the call quality. I may edit this tonight and let yall know.



Which do you prefer? The IE600 or 359? Thanks


----------



## clerkpalmer

Unfortunately I’m having trouble getting the nuarl to fit me properly. They require a little deeper insertion than I am used to. If anyone wants a set in the US that’s only been used a few times, I’m thinking 150 usd. Pm me if interested.


----------



## actorlife

cigarello said:


> Which do you prefer? The IE600 or 359? Thanks


Hi Cigarello The Anbes 359 is still my favorite for the SQ and price. The IE600 would have tied if they had a bigger soundstage. The bass is a bit better on the IE600. The Anbes 359 for me is the all rounder and most fun to listen for Music and streaming TV/Movies.


----------



## Ypsilon (Apr 16, 2019)

Received the Nuarl NT01AX in black gold (revision MT3) today. Took only 5 days from the time of order to free delivery on the door by Fedex in Norway. (Btw, @BigZ12, no tax/customs fee for me!) Very good experience with the Singapore shop Stereo! Some early impressions follow, mostly comparing it to the Moondrop Kanas Pro Edition (KPE) since it's the only other IEM I have. Paired with my Xperia XZ1 with BT5+aptX, playing primarily through Poweramp (jazz, pop, EDM).

Nice packaging with 6 pairs of tips, two different ear loops and a nicer, bigger and thicker bag than came with the Kanas Pro (which is pretty crap). Also, an English manual.
Easy to charge and pair. Decent charging box, though I'm not completely convinced the lid hinge will take too many hard beatings.
I love that it's IP rated and has a relatively long battery life. Two musts for truly wireless IEMs for me.
Looks handsome and seems solid. The colour goes well with my hair. Does attract fingerprints on the shiny parts, but I don't care.
Paired with my Xperia XZ1 with BT5+aptX it has zero perceptible lag.
The sound surprised me with its fullness, forwardness and loudness (the max volume goes beyond my limit). It's quite a bit more bass heavy than the Kanas Pro. The KPE has a cleaner and less forward low end that I personally prefer in most cases. But as RobinFood said, the deep bass in Eminem's Killshot sounds fantastic on the NT01AX! I look forward to exploring this aspect more. The mids are better resolved and less congested on the KPE, but overall sound great. Eminem's voice is given full justice in that same track. There's practically no sibilance for me (only at painfully high volumes), and clean, good highs. Soundstage may be slightly wider on the KPE. It shows very nice detail on the jazz album Eastern Sounds by Yusef Lateef. Overall, I'm pleased with the sound and found it can particularly get electronic/pop music pumping, but I'm quite confident it can sound good with most genres, at least by equalising. Should be great for my kind of gym music (mostly EDM, techno, trance)! And it appears to be growing on me as I listen to various tracks now. Playing some darkwave mixes on YouTube showcases a very pleasant and full-sounding interplay between the thumping drums and high and low synths.
It does have a constant, quiet white noise that keeps going for a few seconds after the sound has stopped, as mentioned by others. I don't notice it when there's sound playing, but I wish it weren't there.
Whereas the KPE fit me like a glove from the word go with the stock medium tips, I'm still working on getting an optimal fit with the NT01AX. As clerkpalmer said, it does seat rather deep. With my cranial/ear construction, at least, that blocks/changes the sound whenever I open my jaw. It helps me to use the small SpinFit tips, and I'll do some more tip rolling. They're comfortable. I do favour the fit and comfort of the KPE so far, but I'll have to see over time and in different situations with the NT01AX. I plan on using it mostly at the gym and on hikes, and I'll probably have to move my jaw to breathe in those situations, not to mention during phone calls and when eating.
The microphone seems to be good.
They're very light! And it's such a luxury and freedom not to have a cable hanging from/between the ear pieces.
That concludes my early impressions, which are very good for an IEM with this functionality and at this price. If I can improve the fit for my ears a bit, I see myself using it a lot. I'll take it for a hike tomorrow.

Thanks for the recommendation, RobinFood and palestofwhite!


----------



## BigZ12

Ypsilon said:


> Received the Nuarl NT01AX in black gold (revision MT3) today. Took only 5 days from the time of order to free delivery on the door by Fedex in Norway. (Btw, @BigZ12, no tax/customs fee for me!) Very good experience with the Singapore shop Stereo! Some early impressions follow, mostly comparing it to the Moondrop Kanas Pro Edition (KPE) since it's the only other IEM I have. Paired with my Xperia XZ1 with BT5+aptX, playing primarily through Poweramp (jazz, pop, EDM).
> 
> Nice packaging with 6 pairs of tips, two different ear loops and a nicer, bigger and thicker bag than came with the Kanas Pro (which is pretty crap). Also, an English manual.
> Easy to charge and pair. Decent charging box, though I'm not completely convinced the lid hinge will take too many hard beatings.
> ...


Nice review!
How did you "escape" the tax/customs fee? Did they mark the package with a lower value for you?


----------



## mikp

The fedex bill could come 4-8 weeks later if they notice it.. thats the fun of fedex in Norway


----------



## Ypsilon (Apr 16, 2019)

BigZ12 said:


> Nice review!
> How did you "escape" the tax/customs fee? Did they mark the package with a lower value for you?





mikp said:


> The fedex bill could come 4-8 weeks later if they notice it.. thats the fun of fedex in Norway


I didn't do anything, and Stereo put the value on the declaration, so it's possible I'll get a bill in a couple of months. From next year, all imported goods will be getting VAT here, anyway. But enough about politics. 

By the way, Stereo now offers the Black Metallic colour on the NT01AX, in stock early May.


----------



## RobinFood

clerkpalmer said:


> Unfortunately I’m having trouble getting the nuarl to fit me properly. They require a little deeper insertion than I am used to. If anyone wants a set in the US that’s only been used a few times, I’m thinking 150 usd. Pm me if interested.



Have you tried different tips? The spinfits sit really deep but I find round tips in the bag fit less deep.


----------



## chinmie

Ypsilon said:


> Received the Nuarl NT01AX in black gold (revision MT3) today. Took only 5 days from the time of order to free delivery on the door by Fedex in Norway. (Btw, @BigZ12, no tax/customs fee for me!) Very good experience with the Singapore shop Stereo! Some early impressions follow, mostly comparing it to the Moondrop Kanas Pro Edition (KPE) since it's the only other IEM I have. Paired with my Xperia XZ1 with BT5+aptX, playing primarily through Poweramp (jazz, pop, EDM).
> 
> Nice packaging with 6 pairs of tips, two different ear loops and a nicer, bigger and thicker bag than came with the Kanas Pro (which is pretty crap). Also, an English manual.
> Easy to charge and pair. Decent charging box, though I'm not completely convinced the lid hinge will take too many hard beatings.
> ...



nice review! hmm..  this give me an idea of purchasing the TRN BT20 to pair it as with my Kanas. would be a cheaper investment than buying the NT01AX, and get the similar sound


----------



## 40760

Ypsilon said:


> Received the Nuarl NT01AX in black gold (revision MT3) today. Took only 5 days from the time of order to free delivery on the door by Fedex in Norway. (Btw, @BigZ12, no tax/customs fee for me!) Very good experience with the Singapore shop Stereo! Some early impressions follow, mostly comparing it to the Moondrop Kanas Pro Edition (KPE) since it's the only other IEM I have. Paired with my Xperia XZ1 with BT5+aptX, playing primarily through Poweramp (jazz, pop, EDM).
> 
> Nice packaging with 6 pairs of tips, two different ear loops and a nicer, bigger and thicker bag than came with the Kanas Pro (which is pretty crap). Also, an English manual.
> Easy to charge and pair. Decent charging box, though I'm not completely convinced the lid hinge will take too many hard beatings.
> ...



It took me awhile to get used to the fit too. They can get uncomfortable at first, but the CP350 softens up overtime and I have the best results with the large size.

Just find one that gives the best fit first, stick to that and it'll become more comfortable as your ears adjust to them the more you wear.


----------



## newtothegame1231

so i received my qcy t1 3 days ago and i have been using it since. I'm having an issue with it when it comes to playing music. It stops playing after 1 music and i have to turn on my phone for it to play to the next track. Also, the music starts playing for a bit and it stops. How can i fix this?


----------



## psikey (Apr 17, 2019)

Obviously no comparison to the sound quality of my SE846/BTR3 combo but for a fully wireless freebee I am quite impressed. Certainly good enough for my Cycle commute to work & back if the BT signal stays strong to my S10+ (only just arrived so not tried yet).

Bass is obviously not great but not terrible either like some reviewers are indicating. They either have a poor fit or come from Beats like bass head earphones.

I would never use them other than when exercising (Gym/bike etc.) but super convenient with an S10 series phone & with Samsung Adaptive Bluetooth.






UPDATE

Just had my 1hr lunchtime speed-walk and no drop of signal & buds stayed in place perfectly & really comfy. Honestly, for their price I think they are great and would likely satisfy many non bass-head standard listeners (not head-fi purists).


----------



## JES

Thanks for the advice on this thread. I've been using Phaiser BHS-790's at the gym. Love the sound, fit was ok, hated the durability. I received the freebie Galaxy Buds with my S10 pre-order and really enjoyed the true wireless form factor. I shelved the Phaiser's. But I found the sound quality of the Galaxy Buds unacceptable. A pity, because their integration with the S10 and wireless charging convenience is impressive. So I tried the Anbes 359 as recommended. Wow. This is what I'm grateful for. Wonderful fit, great sound. A great wireless solution for the gym. With the discounted price on Amazon right now, I'll order another pair as backup.


----------



## RobinFood

I have the weirdest bug ever on the Sabbat X12, and thought I would ask if anyone else has this issue.
Sometimes when the track changes, and a new song comes up, for half a second, only the left earbud has sound, and then the right one comes on too.
I usually do a double take, and press back to restart the track and it doesn't repeat the issue. 
My other TWE set does not do this. There is usually no interference during that time.
In one session, it can happen up to 3 times in an hour or so. It's really minor, but so strange, and I am wondering if it can be an issue that will grow in time.


----------



## webvan

Can't say I've had that with my X12. I do have the very occasional "reset" with the right (and maybe the left) earbud saying "right ear connected" (or something like that). That's on top of the very occasion "interference" where it just tunes in/out without a message.


----------



## RobinFood

Ypsilon said:


> Received the Nuarl NT01AX in black gold (revision MT3) today. Took only 5 days from the time of order to free delivery on the door by Fedex in Norway. (Btw, @BigZ12, no tax/customs fee for me!) Very good experience with the Singapore shop Stereo! Some early impressions follow, mostly comparing it to the Moondrop Kanas Pro Edition (KPE) since it's the only other IEM I have. Paired with my Xperia XZ1 with BT5+aptX, playing primarily through Poweramp (jazz, pop, EDM).
> 
> Nice packaging with 6 pairs of tips, two different ear loops and a nicer, bigger and thicker bag than came with the Kanas Pro (which is pretty crap). Also, an English manual.
> Easy to charge and pair. Decent charging box, though I'm not completely convinced the lid hinge will take too many hard beatings.
> ...



Just wait, they will grow on you more and more as time goes by. My ER4XR is technically much better and balanced, but I find myself enjoying music much more, even if I am missing some detail and vocals are less present. I really appreciate how they make instruments sound alive I love listening to instrument-heavy songs that are well recorded, like movie and Disney soundtracks. I find the heavy bass not to affect clarity or imaging too much, and that in itself completely blows my mind.

The hiss is actually constant if your phone sends signals. I use it mostly with my Shanling M0 and it never stops. With my phone, it stops and starts up again when I open an app. It is much better when it is constant than when it cuts off, I find. It's less in focus and kind of fades away. It is great white noise therapy for my tinnitus to be honest, I haven't heard my tinnitus in a few days. 

I don't get the fit issues some of you are having though. I guess I must be lucky, but those medium spin fits with the ear hooks make them one of the most comfortable IEMs I've ever worn. It really doesn't feel like they are in right, but they block as much ambient noise as any other tips I have tried. It feels like I am wearing flat-head earbuds to be honest.


----------



## Ocelitgol

psikey said:


> Obviously no comparison to the sound quality of my SE846/BTR3 combo but for a fully wireless freebee I am quite impressed. Certainly good enough for my Cycle commute to work & back if the BT signal stays strong to my S10+ (only just arrived so not tried yet).
> 
> Bass is obviously not great but not terrible either like some reviewers are indicating. They either have a poor fit or come from Beats like bass head earphones.
> 
> ...



Hmm....a Fiio 3.5mm 40cm wire looks to be perfect for that combo 

Question: It's obvious that SE846 will be vastly superior, why not use it for your commute as well? Are you just testing those earbuds? I don't see any incovenience using a BT adapter running under the shirt for those activities. 

Fostex is coming out with the TM2 adapter for IEM to make them true wireless so I'm definitely gonna get it for my IER-M9. Current setup = ES100 + M9
Would you prefer that instead?


----------



## psikey

stormers said:


> Hmm....a Fiio 3.5mm 40cm wire looks to be perfect for that combo
> 
> Question: It's obvious that SE846 will be vastly superior, why not use it for your commute as well? Are you just testing those earbuds? I don't see any incovenience using a BT adapter running under the shirt for those activities.
> 
> ...



If I come off/crash I only loose/damage some cheap kit! 

Also I find the BTR3 poor at keeping a signal when I have my phone in the bike holder bag behind me. It easily looses signal if body gets in the way


----------



## actorlife (Apr 17, 2019)

JES said:


> Thanks for the advice on this thread. I've been using Phaiser BHS-790's at the gym. Love the sound, fit was ok, hated the durability. I received the freebie Galaxy Buds with my S10 pre-order and really enjoyed the true wireless form factor. I shelved the Phaiser's. But I found the sound quality of the Galaxy Buds unacceptable. A pity, because their integration with the S10 and wireless charging convenience is impressive. So I tried the Anbes 359 as recommended. Wow. This is what I'm grateful for. Wonderful fit, great sound. A great wireless solution for the gym. With the discounted price on Amazon right now, I'll order another pair as backup.


Glad you like the anbes it's so great for the price. Would you try the anbes 360 to see how they compare?


----------



## d3myz

newtothegame1231 said:


> so i received my qcy t1 3 days ago and i have been using it since. I'm having an issue with it when it comes to playing music. It stops playing after 1 music and i have to turn on my phone for it to play to the next track. Also, the music starts playing for a bit and it stops. How can i fix this?


I have also noticed a couple of stopping issues like this and my left earbud sometimes stops working for several seconds, pausing and playing fixes it, but it's still annoying. I bought 2 pair, one is a T1s from joybuy, that came in some budget box packaging and some white T1c's from Aliexpress that came in the nice retail packaging. I haven't had any issues with the white ones. I wonder if there's any correlation? Where did you buy yours and what did the packaging look like?


----------



## d3myz

This may have been posted previously, but Joybuy.com is having a flash sale on the QCY T1C for $17.99 white or black. My white ones look fantastic. The T1S is 20.99 which is what I purchased from them and surprisingly the 800 MAH battery case feels nice and almost the same dimensions as the smaller T1C's 500 MAH case.

https://www.joybuy.com/600891738.html


----------



## Slater (Apr 17, 2019)

Hey, to anyone who ordered the sub-$10 eBay QCY T1C/QS1 about 3-4 weeks back, it was a scam listing and you will need to contact eBay directly to get a refund.

You can’t use the eBay automated process, because the listing and seller isn't even there anymore. So you’ll have to contact eBay by phone.

Never fear though; once I got a customer service rep on the phone, it was resolved with a full refund in under 5 minutes.

One of the reasons why I still love eBay.


----------



## actorlife

Slater said:


> Hey, to anyone who ordered the sub-$10 eBay QCY T1C/QS1 about 3-4 weeks back, it was a scam listing and you will need to contact eBay directly to get a refund.
> 
> You can’t use the eBay automated process, because the listing isn't even there anymore. So you’ll have to contact eBay by phone.


Got my refund yesterday. Maybe it's a good thing I never got them. I still would try them with the volume controls.


----------



## d3myz

Slater said:


> Hey, to anyone who ordered the sub-$10 eBay QCY T1C/QS1 about 3-4 weeks back, it was a scam listing and you will need to contact eBay directly to get a refund.
> 
> You can’t use the eBay automated process, because the listing and seller isn't even there anymore. So you’ll have to contact eBay by phone.
> 
> ...


Yea, I ordered 2 from 2 different sellers and I got a tracking number from one, addressed to someone else, and one with no tracking, I got my money back a couple weeks ago.


----------



## howdy

Just sending some props to B&O. Sent my E8s in for repair as the case always had charging issues last week and they sent me a brand new pair yesterday. They aren't the 2.0 which I was hoping for but new none the less. Very happy with the service!


----------



## clerkpalmer

Switched to spinfits and large ear wings. Fit is waaaaayyy better on nuarl now.


----------



## SuperLuigi

Had anyone tried out the redmi Airdots? They seem like the exact same thing as the xiaomi Airdots but half the price.


----------



## bubsdaddy

actorlife said:


> Flash sale:
> Anbes 359 Bluetooth 5.0 True Wireless
> 
> Https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07M8LWN2G/ref=cm_sw_r_sms_apa_i_HAKSCbPFJJBZY


I received my pair from this flash sale today. I immediately changed the tips to the Auvios. In the brief 10-15 minutes I have had with them, I must say, they are as awesome as our guys described them to be. 

Quick tip: the buds have clear cellophane covering the charging connections so make sure you remove it. Also, the case wouldn’t charge from my usb-c to usb-c cable and power supply. I had to use the included usb-a to usb-c cable.


----------



## Slater

SuperLuigi said:


> Had anyone tried out the redmi Airdots? They seem like the exact same thing as the xiaomi Airdots but half the price.



Buh Bam!

https://www.gearbest.com/blog/new-g...-true-wireless-earbuds-at-half-the-price-3822


----------



## linhlev

I know this problem has been brought up many times but still there is no real solution out there after I've done a heavy research on Google, Reddit. Have anyone figured out a way to eliminate that hissing (white noise) on the left ear bud of the Jabra 65t model? I just got the active one and I have the same problem. It's really bugging me. Someone recommended to turn down the volume on the earphones and increase the one on the phone but that doesn't work with iPhone.


----------



## LouisArmstrong

Is there any brand that makes bluetooth customs?


----------



## Slater

LouisArmstrong said:


> Is there any brand that makes bluetooth customs?



I wouldn’t think that work with current technology, because the shape of everyone’s ears are a little bit different. I would think it would be impossible to line up the IEM charging pins with the mating pins in a charging case.

Perhaps with wireless charging, or maybe if plugged in to recharge using cables (like the TRN BT20).

Who knows


----------



## DigDub

New firmware for Galaxy buds.


----------



## 40760

LouisArmstrong said:


> Is there any brand that makes bluetooth customs?


There was the Bragi Dash Pro customs by Starkey.


----------



## chinmie (Apr 18, 2019)

this looks promising: dual driver, supports aptx, 10 hours of playtime. anyone interested to try?

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/SYL...ooth-sports-Headset-Syllable/32997899016.html


----------



## webvan

Looks interesting, cheapest QCC3020 so far ?
Not sure about the bulk/fit though.


----------



## chinmie

webvan said:


> Looks interesting, cheapest QCC3020 so far ?
> Not sure about the bulk/fit though.



yeah, it sure looks like it will bulge a bit. physically it looks the same as that indiegogo KNZ soundflux, so you could browse for reviews on how it might look when worn. the KNZ doesn't use qualcomm though


----------



## Markolav

I placed an order for Sabbat E12 to get myself introduced to the wireless world (50€ from Gearvita including shipping). Any owners here, what are your thoughts about them?


----------



## Bartig

Slater said:


> Buh Bam!
> 
> https://www.gearbest.com/blog/new-g...-true-wireless-earbuds-at-half-the-price-3822


'In absence of worthy competition'. Pleeeaaaase Gearbest.


----------



## actorlife

chinmie said:


> this looks promising: dual driver, supports aptx, 10 hours of playtime. anyone interested to try?
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/SYL...ooth-sports-Headset-Syllable/32997899016.html


I would have jumped on them if they were not as long. Hopefully they will come out with a slimmer one. Yep I know it a bit bulky cause of the battery.


----------



## srinivasvignesh

Markolav said:


> I placed an order for Sabbat E12 to get myself introduced to the wireless world (50€ from Gearvita including shipping). Any owners here, what are your thoughts about them?


I have both the x12 Pro and the e12. Unfortunately the e12 is not as good. X12 has better sound and mic. E12 has better isolation, but not much really. E12 connection switches between sbc and aac, not so with x12. 

Much more reliable experience with x12pro


----------



## Markolav

srinivasvignesh said:


> I have both the x12 Pro and the e12. Unfortunately the e12 is not as good. X12 has better sound and mic. E12 has better isolation, but not much really. E12 connection switches between sbc and aac, not so with x12.
> 
> Much more reliable experience with x12pro



Ok thanks, maybe i should give a try to X12 too in the future.

Are there any other "must have" wireless IEMs under $100?


----------



## chinmie

Markolav said:


> Ok thanks, maybe i should give a try to X12 too in the future.
> 
> Are there any other "must have" wireless IEMs under $100?



yes, the QCY T1C /QS1


----------



## david8613

How does this x12 pro compare to the anbes 359?


----------



## actorlife

david8613 said:


> How does this x12 pro compare to the anbes 359?


Anbes 359 by 50 million miles. I had the X12 and SQ was just ok. Treble roll off so not too clear. I like my clarity, but detest screechy sibilant. I had to return them because the right side stopped working.


----------



## david8613 (Apr 18, 2019)

I just recieved the anbes 569 today, charging them up now before first use. I was very sceptical about these since I have been burned by alot of chi-fi truewireless, but I have to admit the build on this unit is not bad at all!!! Well made indeed. The case is a nice size, smaller than I thought it would be. The case is kind of flat too which is nice for your skinny Jean pockets.The ear buds are incredibly small! They are smaller and fit more flush in the ear than the Samsung buds I could not believe it! The little lights look nice not gimmicky at all. Do these need any burn in? Or do they sound great out the box? How long is the battery life in real world?


----------



## david8613 (Apr 18, 2019)

Holy crap! These anbes 569 sound great!!! Very wide sound stage! The sound is foward but not in bad way. Voices are so nice and clear, bass is very good, incredible separation of instruments. Treble is there, no sparkle but no harshness at all that I can hear yet. Volume is freakin loud! I'm at about 60% and its plenty for me. These are not as powerful as the senn truewireless momentum in the bass department those feel like full size headphones, but that's ok, these 569 hit really good and the bass has texture, goes deep and rumbles. I'm not saying these are audiophile, truewireless is not there yet but the sound for under 40.00 is dam good!!! But as I was writing this I had 4 very quick drop outs on the bud, I hope this doesn't keep happening because I really hate drop outs! I sent the sonys wf1000x back because of that and battery life being short, I really loved the sound that Sony produced. I also want to add these things are so light in ear, I hardly feel them, they are so comfortable, so tiny they weigh nothing. I will continue testing and see what developes. In case anyone is interested I'm running them on a samusung note 8, and spotify. Thank you for the recommendation.


----------



## actorlife

david8613 said:


> Holy crap! These things sound great!!! Very wide sound stage! The sound is foward but not in bad way. Voices are so nice and clear, bass is very good, incredible separation of instruments. Treble is there, no sparkle but no harshness at all that I can hear yet. Volume is freakin loud! I'm at about 60% and its plenty for me. These are not as powerful as the senn truewireless momentum in the bass department those feel like full size headphones, but that's ok, these 569 hit really good and the bass has texture, goes deep and rumbles. But as I was writing this I had 4 very quick drop outs, I hope this doesn't keep happening because I really hate drop outs, I sent the sonys wf1000x back because of that and battery life being short, I really loved the sound that Sony produced. I also want to add these things are so light in ear, I hardly feel them, they are so comfortable, so tiny they weigh nothing. I will continue testing and see what developes.


You mean the 359. cut outs are not common with mine. Maybe pair them again. To be compared to the Senns is great. In my mind I thought perhaps they were equal in SQ. I've never heard them and probably won't as they are expensive, but I love my Senns 58X. Battery is about 4 hrs. Continue to enjoy them. There is nothing like them at the price range.


----------



## david8613

I actually like how the voices sound on 569 better then my senn. twm, lol. Treble might be a little better too, I'm astonished! Blown away by what im hearing for the price. All that's missing is awareness mode and an app to eq if you needed to, but I dont they very nice sounding as is. But I keep getting cut outs, not as frequent as the sonys. I am going to try and re-pair them in a few and see what happens.


----------



## actorlife

david8613 said:


> I actually like how the voices sound on 569 better then my senn. twm, lol. Treble might be a little better too, I'm astonished! Blown away by what im hearing for the price. All that's missing is awareness mode and an app to eq if you needed to, but I dont they very nice sounding as is. But I keep getting cut outs, not as frequent as the sonys. I am going to try and re-pair them in a few and see what happens.


What are you hooking it up to? Be aware that Wi-Fi is a big interference factor on most tw's.


----------



## FYLegend

RobinFood said:


> It looks like the generic version of the Astrotec s60
> I think if it was a Knowles BA they would have mentioned it. Also, while they copied the model, it has double the charge of the original, so I am going to have to guess that they are using different tech in it. It looks a little off compared to the original, but they really did copy the model.
> 
> That being said, it's less expensive than the Astrotec s60, but the Astrotec is really not that expensive (75$) to start with, so I'm not sure it really needs a generic version...


I highly doubt it. It appears S60 uses a housing that many other brands have used, but other brands using these housings have dynamic drivers or generic BA's. I can't remember any brands off the top of my head but I saw some in Taiwan sold at night markets, which had more typical microUSB cases among other things. This page doesn't even explicitly state USB type C or wireless charging which raises eyebrows.

Here's my S60 review (4.2 version). Great sound with AAC but disappointed by the skips/cutouts on my Galaxy Note 9 with AAC. SBC has almost no connectivity issues but also sounds more distorted.
https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/astrotec-s60.23547/reviews#review-21934

Where can I get Sabbat E12 shipped quickly to Canada?


----------



## JES

actorlife said:


> Glad you like the anbes it's so great for the price. Would you try the anbes 360 to see how they compare?


Maybe for my next purchase


----------



## BobJS

I've got the Nuarl NT01AX in house and they sound VERY good.  Isolation is not as good as MW07 but those who want to be environmentally aware may appreciate that.  My first impressions was great sound quality though I thought at louder volumes the bass was a little boomy.  Just nit-picking, at lower volume was fine, and it could have been the track selection I was using.  Will continue to evaluate.

A bit pricey to get here in the US compared to all these good sounding chi-fi units flying around, but a nice addition to the collection.


----------



## SaveTheMantaRays

I have been testing the Anbes 359 for 2 weeks.  For $30-ish dollars, they sound fantastic; a hint boomy in the bass, but that goes well for exercise or being on the go.  But overall very impressed with the sound overall with highs, mids, and bass.
The fit is superb even with stock tips. I have put on Comply sport pro Smartcore, and they are even more secure.  They are incredibly light weight and almost disappear.  Seems to be charged anytime I need them.  Very compact case and ready to throw in your pocket.

Here is my only real issue.  When I am still, they stay connected almost 99%.  When I am moving normally they stay connected like 98% of the time.  But when I use them for the intended purpose of buying TWEs; for exercise, jogging, or the gym,
they struggle to keep a full connection.  They blink on and off way to often, to the point of removing them, because it is just annoying.  If I hold my phone in my hand they stay connected like 98%, but it is 2019, and not 2008, and I am not buying a strap pouch to stick on my arm, that defeats the purpose 
of going the TWE route and expecting it to work almost flawlessly.  There is also two ways to connect them to your blue tooth device.  You can let them connect to each other and then connect to your device.  I have found this keeps a better connection overall when exercising.
Or you can connect them as 359 R and 359 L, individually connect each one to your blue tooth device.  This can add some different functionality, but I have found this to stay connected worse overall during exercise.

Going fully Wireless IEMs. Too soon? Or are we there yet?------------->>>>The title says it all.     The sound and price are getting much better.  But I still do not think we are there yet.   If it doesn't stay connected, then it does not make great sound.

A quick comparison is too my HiFi Walker A7 Air: http://www.hifiwalker.com/HIFI-WALK...control-remote-cable-carrying-case_show9.html
If I keep my phone on the same side of my body as the blue tooth receiver on A7 Air, I get basically a 100% connection, even during jogging.  They are GREAT!  I know that is not a TWE, but it is the comparison I personally have to test against.
Plus I can use the removable cable and connect by MMCX to my iBasso it01, and that makes for a very fun exercising sound experience.

I hope either my Anbes 359 decide to work more effectively or very very soon there is a true 100% connected TWE.


----------



## Slater

SaveTheMantaRays said:


> I have been testing the Anbes 359 for 2 weeks.  For $30-ish dollars, they sound fantastic; a hint boomy in the bass, but that goes well for exercise or being on the go.  But overall very impressed with the sound overall with highs, mids, and bass.
> The fit is superb even with stock tips. I have put on Comply sport pro Smartcore, and they are even more secure.  They are incredibly light weight and almost disappear.  Seems to be charged anytime I need them.  Very compact case and ready to throw in your pocket.
> 
> Here is my only real issue.  When I am still, they stay connected almost 99%.  When I am moving normally they stay connected like 98% of the time.  But when I use them for the intended purpose of buying TWEs; for exercise, jogging, or the gym,
> ...



You could try disabling WiFi on your phone and seeing if it improves connectivity


----------



## david8613 (Apr 19, 2019)

I had that problem with right ear disconnects on the anbes 359 just sitting on my back porch. As recommended here I unpaired them and deleted it from my phone, i did the pairing routine again and it has been good since, I went to the park this morning jogging and I think I may have had 1 blip, but that was it, no more cut outs. I am amazed how long this battery lasts, i went to sleep with them on with low volume and they were still working many hours later. Bass has receded some after burn in but still very nice bass, clean output in mids and highs. I think what makes these sound extra good is the separation and soundstage, no instruments get in the way of each other and that stage is very wide, sounds come from all different directions. Alot of truewireless buds sound closed in, these dont.  They stay put in ears too, I had to adjust only once, i was a little sweaty i think was the reason. I have been in the truewireless world when it first came out and your right we are not there yet, but we are getting some really good stuff these days, I cant imagine anyone going back to wired ear buds unless you are an absolute die hard audiophile.


----------



## alexapproved

BobJS said:


> I've got the Nuarl NT01AX in house and they sound VERY good.  Isolation is not as good as MW07 but those who want to be environmentally aware may appreciate that.  My first impressions was great sound quality though I thought at louder volumes the bass was a little boomy.  Just nit-picking, at lower volume was fine, and it could have been the track selection I was using.  Will continue to evaluate.
> 
> A bit pricey to get here in the US compared to all these good sounding chi-fi units flying around, but a nice addition to the collection.



I currently own the MW07. I'm looking for TWE's to do 10K runs around the track and use on the train so awareness isnt a major concern. Sound quality is and fit is.
My question is do you think the Nuarl NT01AX will give me a more secure fit than the MW07?
I noticed you said the isolation isn't as good however perhaps with a different set of tips it could be better?


 I have uneven ears, no matter what ear tip I use (triple comfort, spinfit, stock tips) they all seem to be loose in my right ear compared to the left, unless I use comply. Thus why I chose MW07 with the fin tips. I owned E8's but I was never confident running with them so I sold them.


----------



## clerkpalmer

alexapproved said:


> I currently own the MW07. I'm looking for TWE's to do 10K runs around the track and use on the train so awareness isnt a major concern. Sound quality is and fit is.
> My question is do you think the Nuarl NT01AX will give me a more secure fit than the MW07?
> I noticed you said the isolation isn't as good however perhaps with a different set of tips it could be better?
> 
> ...



I don’t think the nuarl would be a good choice for running. Certainly no better than mw07.


----------



## howdy

alexapproved said:


> I currently own the MW07. I'm looking for TWE's to do 10K runs around the track and use on the train so awareness isnt a major concern. Sound quality is and fit is.
> My question is do you think the Nuarl NT01AX will give me a more secure fit than the MW07?
> I noticed you said the isolation isn't as good however perhaps with a different set of tips it could be better?
> 
> ...


I have the E8,MTW and MW07 but when I need something that will stay in my ear and don't care about sweating profusely, I use my Jabra 65t Elite Active and I quite happy with them.


----------



## alexapproved

clerkpalmer said:


> I don’t think the nuarl would be a good choice for running. Certainly no better than mw07.



Thank you for your input! 

So far the MW07 held up decently during my last 40 minute run. The movement plus sweat did loosen them but that would probably happen with any in ear after that period of time. (Bose eartips have been the only ones that work for me but I'd rather not go that route)

I'm only considering the Nuarls because perhaps the fit may be better and the battery life is better. The sound quality of the NT01AX seems to be within reach of MW07


----------



## alexapproved

howdy said:


> I have the E8,MTW and MW07 but when I need something that will stay in my ear and don't care about sweating profusely, I use my Jabra 65t Elite Active and I quite happy with them.



I would love to try the Jabras but I don't know if they would deliver the type of sound I get from the MW07.


----------



## howdy

alexapproved said:


> I would love to try the Jabras but I don't know if they would deliver the type of sound I get from the MW07.


They won't but you can eq them to your liking. Plus comfort and high ip rating and much cheaper makes it the reason I use them for working out.
I heard the Mavin Air x and Earin M2 are a good choice. I want the Earins for there size but they never have them in Black.


----------



## clerkpalmer

alexapproved said:


> Thank you for your input!
> 
> So far the MW07 held up decently during my last 40 minute run. The movement plus sweat did loosen them but that would probably happen with any in ear after that period of time. (Bose eartips have been the only ones that work for me but I'd rather not go that route)
> 
> I'm only considering the Nuarls because perhaps the fit may be better and the battery life is better. The sound quality of the NT01AX seems to be within reach of MW07


If the mw07 stay put for you then the nuarls May.  Battery life is better for sure. I find the fit a little fussy but it’s very subjective. If I’m going to run I need something rock solid like Bose.


----------



## clerkpalmer

alexapproved said:


> I would love to try the Jabras but I don't know if they would deliver the type of sound I get from the MW07.


Do not buy the Jabra’s if sq is a priority. No amount of eq can fix this. They are average at best. Nuarl over Jabra every time.


----------



## 40760

I know of someone that uses her NT01B for running and gym. They share the same form factor as the NT01AX.


----------



## mikp

chinmie said:


> this looks promising: dual driver, supports aptx, 10 hours of playtime. anyone interested to try?
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/SYL...ooth-sports-Headset-Syllable/32997899016.html



if I remember correctly there was soundflux indiegogo campaign with same types, that was based on oems that could be purchased for 25$ on taobao before soundflux delivered. Another rebrand

Cheapest qcc3020, but dont know if the rest is any good. They had very poor reviews on taobao with other chipset when I first checked them out.


----------



## chinmie

mikp said:


> if I remember correctly there was soundflux indiegogo campaign with same types, that was based on oems that could be purchased for 25$ on taobao before soundflux delivered. Another rebrand
> 
> Cheapest qcc3020, but dont know if the rest is any good. They had very poor reviews on taobao with other chipset when I first checked them out.



i saw the soundpeats too, though the syllable is the only one claiming to have QCC3020, and the Soundflux has ambient sound mode. I'm still waiting for the reviews to show up on AE


----------



## mikp

chinmie said:


> i saw the soundpeats too, though the syllable is the only one claiming to have QCC3020, and the Soundflux has ambient sound mode. I'm still waiting for the reviews to show up on AE



Yes , the oem had "ambient" mode that many on taobao trashed. My taobao account needs verification again, and not bothering looking for throw away phone numbers to check again.
I wonder what price syllable got these old oem shells for, to price it at 30$ with qcc3020.

Also not seen any Chinese wholesalers with Qcc5100 chips, but plenty with QCC3026 for 35$ in quantity of 1000 pieces.


----------



## bubsdaddy

clerkpalmer said:


> If the mw07 stay put for you then the nuarls May.  Battery life is better for sure. I find the fit a little fussy but it’s very subjective. If I’m going to run I need something rock solid like Bose.


I have the Bose Soundsport Free and I am also a runner. They hold the connection to my Apple Watch pretty well but will very briefly lose it maybe 3 or 4 times during my average run of 5 miles.
My main issue with them is wind noise.


----------



## bubsdaddy

Does anyone know how to add a source to the Andes 359? I have mine paired to my iPhone but I want to also pair them with my Apple Watch to try them while running.


----------



## BobJS

alexapproved said:


> I currently own the MW07. I'm looking for TWE's to do 10K runs around the track and use on the train so awareness isnt a major concern. Sound quality is and fit is.
> My question is do you think the Nuarl NT01AX will give me a more secure fit than the MW07?
> I noticed you said the isolation isn't as good however perhaps with a different set of tips it could be better?
> 
> ...




I found the Nuarl fairly secure, but the MW07 wins that contest for me.  I don't run, but I walk several miles a day and use the MW07 for that.


----------



## OhSoSWIL

Can anyone provide some insight on the sound of the Jabra Elite 65t vs. Anbes 359? I picked up the Jabra's and like their functionality. I'm not overly impressed with their sound (I'm a bass head) but they get the job done for my usage at work and the gym.

I'm considering picking up the Anbes' for casual use at home, but want to see if the sound is that much better (if at all) vs. the Jabra's/

Thanks!


----------



## howdy

clerkpalmer said:


> Do not buy the Jabra’s if sq is a priority. No amount of eq can fix this. They are average at best. Nuarl over Jabra every time.


I do agree with the sq aspect but there ok. I like them for the fact they stay when I sweat and stay in place. When I work out I'm not concentrating on sound mainly functionality. They never cut out and always work.

On another note I updated my Senn MTW charged it and just let it sit on my dresser checking it daily by pressing the button on back. The first 4 days it stay green next morning it was orange and by night was blinking orange. So it made it 6 days until dead. Like said earlier, a minor improvement in battery.


----------



## OhSoSWIL

howdy said:


> I do agree with the sq aspect but there ok. I like them for the fact they stay when I sweat and stay in place. When I work out I'm not concentrating on sound mainly functionality. They never cut out and always work.
> 
> On another note I updated my Senn MTW charged it and just let it sit on my dresser checking it daily by pressing the button on back. The first 4 days it stay green next morning it was orange and by night was blinking orange. So it made it 6 days until dead. Like said earlier, a minor improvement in battery.



Good point. If SQ is top of mind while you're working out, you're not working out hard enough buddy!


----------



## david8613 (Apr 20, 2019)

I dont think the jabras 65t sound bad, I wouldn't describe them that way. They sound good, very high energy, foward sound, bassy perfect for workouts, I like using the 65t for workouts outside because the ambient mode works, good for safety reasons. Anbes have a wider soundstage also a little forward, not warm. I also used the jabra elites with the right tips also sound very good with great bass, work very well for working out. I used my sennheiser twm and they were good gobs of bass for working out, but they have a much warmer sound sig.


----------



## david8613

I'm still playing with the anbes 359, the sound is nice, clear, no more disconnects, very comfortable, battery life last very long. My only problem with them is the buttons, they are absolutly horrible! You cannot really feel them, it's smooth so its hard to find. When you do find it your pressing so hard to activate them and it jams the bud deeper into your ear canal. the 359 buds are pretty deep in your ear already, not good. Worse when you have to double tap, or long press forget about it. The jabra 65 have easier to press buttons, and clicky too so you know you pressed it. I have to admit I like touch sensitive controls to me it's alot better for this type of device. I know alot of people dont like touch sensitive controls, but you just have to practice a little to get the hang of it, once you do it's awesome. The best touch controls imo was on the Samsung iconx 2018, you could control everything with taps, and swipes, this worked so well for me. Especially swiping to control volume so quick and easy. Are there any chi fi truewireless that sound as good as anbes 359 but with touch sensitive controls?


----------



## alexapproved

bubsdaddy said:


> I have the Bose Soundsport Free and I am also a runner. They hold the connection to my Apple Watch pretty well but will very briefly lose it maybe 3 or 4 times during my average run of 5 miles.
> My main issue with them is wind noise.




Thank you everyone for the feedback. I think I would consider the bose... on their next iteration. Can you imagine them making TWE's as low profile as their sleep buds? That I would buy in a heart beat. I'll consider giving the Nuarls a try and report back for a comparison. Just noticing I'm getting a lot of ear fatigue with MW07. I am using a large fin tip in my right hear which is probably why. Hoping the Nuarls wing tip sit more comfortably.


----------



## chinmie

alexapproved said:


> Thank you everyone for the feedback. I think I would consider the bose... on their next iteration. Can you imagine them making TWE's as low profile as their sleep buds? That I would buy in a heart beat. I'll consider giving the Nuarls a try and report back for a comparison. Just noticing I'm getting a lot of ear fatigue with MW07. I am using a large fin tip in my right hear which is probably why. Hoping the Nuarls wing tip sit more comfortably.



i use the earin M2 or Mifo o5 for sleeping iems if i need isolation, but i like to use the sabbat x12 more often, because it really flat on my ears and doesn't cause vacuum effect when pressed against the pillow


----------



## mjb152

Just saw this, not exactly a comprehensive list
https://www.t3.com/features/best-true-wireless-earbuds-airpod-alternatives


----------



## mjb152

I've got a colleague visiting from the states in 2 weeks who I'm going to persuade to bring me a set of anbes, as we cant get them in the UK yet.
I'm rather looking forward to it after the reviews I've read on here


----------



## cigarello

I keep hearing people charging their wireless earphones before first use? Why is this recommended? Don't most come pre charged? Thanks


----------



## korefuji (Apr 21, 2019)

mjb152 said:


> I've got a colleague visiting from the states in 2 weeks who I'm going to persuade to bring me a set of anbes, as we cant get them in the UK yet.
> I'm rather looking forward to it after the reviews I've read on here




Are you sure you cant get them in the UK? https://www.amazon.co.uk/ANBES-Earphones-Headphones-Bluetooth-Hands-Free-358/dp/B07JJLQWZB

EDIT: MY bad, I assume you mean the 360 series


----------



## mjb152

korefuji said:


> Are you sure you cant get them in the UK? https://www.amazon.co.uk/ANBES-Earphones-Headphones-Bluetooth-Hands-Free-358/dp/B07JJLQWZB
> 
> EDIT: MY bad, I assume you mean the 360 series


I meant the 359 which seems highly regarded on here


----------



## RobinFood (Apr 21, 2019)

cigarello said:


> I keep hearing people charging their wireless earphones before first use? Why is this recommended? Don't most come pre charged? Thanks



It is recommended in most instructions, but mostly because before lithium ion batteries, not charging properly the first time could lead to the battery only having 5 minutes of life.

I still get stressed out by not fully charging the first time. I remember my early GBA and how impatient I was to use it. I completely ruined it and it didn't last long off the charger.


----------



## smaragd

alexapproved said:


> I currently own the MW07. I'm looking for TWE's to do 10K runs around the track and use on the train so awareness isnt a major concern. Sound quality is and fit is.
> My question is do you think the Nuarl NT01AX will give me a more secure fit than the MW07?
> I noticed you said the isolation isn't as good however perhaps with a different set of tips it could be better?
> 
> ...



I use the MW07 too and also have uneven ears...
Using medium sized Sony hybrid left and large sized hybrid right. Before also used medium sized Shure Olive left and large sized Shure Olive right.

That’s the only way to get a secure fit. 
Been running happily like this with using the medium fins on both sides.

Try matching various sizes until your fit feels secure on both sides.

Cheers!


----------



## Slater (Apr 21, 2019)

cigarello said:


> I keep hearing people charging their wireless earphones before first use? Why is this recommended? Don't most come pre charged? Thanks



Every electronic device has what’s called ‘standby parasitic drain’. This means the device, whether it’s a flashlight or a cell phone, sips the battery a very small amount. I’m talking this drain happens when the device is completely turned OFF.

How long a fully battery will drain down depends on the amount of parasitic drain as and the total capacity of the battery cell(s). Even fully charged batteries that come separate to the device (like a flashlight or some cell phones for example) can slowly self discharge, usually because of the battery’s self-protection circuit.

For full capacity of any rechargeable battery, you should fully charge it before 1st use. It may only need to be topped off, which could take 10 minutes. Or the battery could be fully discharged, and need to be fully recharged.

I know people get excited and impatient when new toys arrive, but you’ll be much happier in the long run to spend  those extra few minutes or an hour or whatever fully charging the batteries for your new device


----------



## rG-tom

I may be being blind but I can't see any talk about the samsung buds true wireless in here beyond the initial announcement, people should all have received their "free" ones with S10 by now, what's the real world verdict on the sound quality?

The reviews flick between they're great to they're terrible, and only compare them to other true wireless. 

In terms of my IEM preference, I've got some RHA T10i and an Astell and Kern xb10, which is a really fun sounding set up but I find it too impractical...I'm not expecting for a second that the Samsung Buds will be as good as this, but how far off are they? Will they be acceptable or are they terrible? How loud do they go?

I like a warm, v shape with maybe a bias to the bassy side.

For context, I have a set here and it looks like I can get about £60 for them if I don't open them, are they worth £60 for commuting with when I don't want to use my over ear wh-1000xm3s?


----------



## actorlife

rG-tom said:


> I may be being blind but I can't see any talk about the samsung buds true wireless in here beyond the initial announcement, people should all have received their "free" ones with S10 by now, what's the real world verdict on the sound quality?
> 
> The reviews flick between they're great to they're terrible, and only compare them to other true wireless.
> 
> ...


There have been a couple of reviews here about 10-15 pages back. It's a mix bag mostly. There are better cheaper options out there with better SQ according to some people.


----------



## DigDub

The Galaxy buds have a rather balanced sound signature, which I like. No frequency dominates and they appear when the music calls for them. The app is useful and there are a few preset EQ for selection.


----------



## Tommy C

How about the 2nd gen Jay Bird run NX?


----------



## Soreniglio

Hello there anyone! I just signed up to ask y'all if there are any decent TWS earbuds under 100€ ! (I'm from Italy, I value SQ quite much, so I don't really care about the rest, I had to resort to Bluetooth IEM since the jack plug of my phone just broken).

I read much about "Creative Outlier Air" which seem to be outstanding for the price, but they are out of stock now.

I also read much about ZOLO/Soundcore Liberty pods, but I'd like some brand new pods, something that was released in 2019 and it's quite under the radar maybe!

Thanks in advance!


----------



## milkybrkid

mjb152 said:


> I've got a colleague visiting from the states in 2 weeks who I'm going to persuade to bring me a set of anbes, as we cant get them in the UK yet.
> I'm rather looking forward to it after the reviews I've read on here



I believe this is the rebranded UK version :- https://www.amazon.co.uk/Wireless-B...com+earphones&qid=1555866084&s=gateway&sr=8-7


----------



## mjb152

milkybrkid said:


> I believe this is the rebranded UK version :- https://www.amazon.co.uk/Wireless-B...com+earphones&qid=1555866084&s=gateway&sr=8-7


Thanks they do look similar.  Same price in £ and $ so I'll probably get him to bring some over and get the lower price


----------



## MidSmoothness

Haven’t seen any comments about the Hoco ES24 yet. I think it’s looks pretty swell, so ordered a pair. Anyone interested in updates?


----------



## turbobb

PSA: Found this interesting list on a Korean site (just Googlate it) that covers a bunch of TWS and which Qualcomm chip is used:
https://www.0db.co.kr/FREE/678549

Includes some yet to be released models like the Klipsch T5 as well as discontinued models.


----------



## mikp

Back mandarin tips on the mavins. Spinfits are good but one ear does not like the button pressing.


----------



## Peddler

I am currently enjoying the rather excellent Mavin Air-X. Review coming soon but they're definitely the best sounding true wireless earphones I have heard yet. I will post a link to my review in this thread.


----------



## 4min

BobJS said:


> I've got the Nuarl NT01AX in house and they sound VERY good.  Isolation is not as good as MW07 but those who want to be environmentally aware may appreciate that.  My first impressions was great sound quality though I thought at louder volumes the bass was a little boomy.  Just nit-picking, at lower volume was fine, and it could have been the track selection I was using.  Will continue to evaluate.
> 
> A bit pricey to get here in the US compared to all these good sounding chi-fi units flying around, but a nice addition to the collection.


I'm trying to pick between MW07 and NT01AX. Would you say that one has an advantage in SQ over the other? MW07 certainly look stylish and well-made, and have better sound isolation. On the other hand, NT01AX have incredible battery life, and are slightly cheaper in the US.

Also, how are NT01AX with multi-device support? MW07 support 2 devices at a time, which is better than MTW's, but is still leaps and bounds worse than AirPods.


----------



## clerkpalmer

4min said:


> I'm trying to pick between MW07 and NT01AX. Would you say that one has an advantage in SQ over the other? MW07 certainly look stylish and well-made, and have better sound isolation. On the other hand, NT01AX have incredible battery life, and are slightly cheaper in the US.
> 
> Also, how are NT01AX with multi-device support? MW07 support 2 devices at a time, which is better than MTW's, but is still leaps and bounds worse than AirPods.


Nuarl is the better all arounder.  I give the edge on build quality and sound quality to MW07. If you plan to listen for more than 2.5 hours at a time, go with nuarl. If not, then I think it comes down to whether that edge in sq is worth it to you. This in turn depends on your use case. Quietly in an office, the sq may be worth it. At the gym, with background noise maybe not. You can't go wrong either way. Both are excellent products.


----------



## 4min

clerkpalmer said:


> Nuarl is the better all arounder.  I give the edge on build quality and sound quality to MW07. If you plan to listen for more than 2.5 hours at a time, go with nuarl. If not, then I think it comes down to whether that edge in sq is worth it to you. This in turn depends on your use case. Quietly in an office, the sq may be worth it. At the gym, with background noise maybe not. You can't go wrong either way. Both are excellent products.


Thanks, this is exactly what I wanted to know! As long as M&D don't have the same case discharge issues that MTW has - I should be OK with battery life, and I really do care about SQ, as well as build quality and looks. That's one of the only pairs that looks interesting.

I might still grab NT01AX to replace AirPods, depending on how well they handle connectivity with 3+ devices. Have you tried them in such capacity?


----------



## clerkpalmer

4min said:


> Thanks, this is exactly what I wanted to know! As long as M&D don't have the same case discharge issues that MTW has - I should be OK with battery life, and I really do care about SQ, as well as build quality and looks. That's one of the only pairs that looks interesting.
> 
> I might still grab NT01AX to replace AirPods, depending on how well they handle connectivity with 3+ devices. Have you tried them in such capacity?



I have not experienced any battery drain issues in the MW07.  I have not tried multiple connections with the Nuarl but with the chipset they are running, I would think they can handle it.  Someone else can probably respond on that.


----------



## RobinFood

clerkpalmer said:


> I have not experienced any battery drain issues in the MW07.  I have not tried multiple connections with the Nuarl but with the chipset they are running, I would think they can handle it.  Someone else can probably respond on that.



I use my Nuarl with my phone and DAP. It does not connect at the same time, but searches for any product it is paired to. It works pretty well if they are your only bluetooth set and connects automatically to either one.

If you have connected to another bluetooth set last, turned on and off devices, and played around with bluetooth stuff like that,.it can be hit or miss a little. You might need to access your bluetooth settings to push the connection.


----------



## actorlife

Flash sale. Features look good: Bluetooth 5.0 Wireless Earbuds-Waterproof IPX8 Touch Earphones 3D Hi-Fi Sound Noise Cancelling Wireless Headphones/Deep Bass Ture Wireless Earbuds Stereo with Mic 3000mAh Magnetic USB Charging Box https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07PM34FBC/ref=cm_sw_r_sms_apa_i_zsIVCbQ807KTK


----------



## Luchyres

Unsure if this has been shared before - but pretty interesting: https://www.kickstarter.com/project...ds-first-3-in-1-convertible-earbud?ref=zrnflj 






Looks like you can connect in multiple ways. 
Concerned about a 6mm dynamic driver .... but... still curious.


----------



## Slater

Luchyres said:


> Unsure if this has been shared before - but pretty interesting: https://www.kickstarter.com/project...ds-first-3-in-1-convertible-earbud?ref=zrnflj
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Looks pretty cool, and is a neat idea.

And after a million delays, I’m sure it will probably ship in about 2 years.

That seems to be how 95% of the crowd funded stuff goes...


----------



## I2evived

I just wish they had a truly wireless earbud that supports either LDAC or APTX HD


----------



## 4min

RobinFood said:


> I use my Nuarl with my phone and DAP. It does not connect at the same time, but searches for any product it is paired to. It works pretty well if they are your only bluetooth set and connects automatically to either one.
> 
> If you have connected to another bluetooth set last, turned on and off devices, and played around with bluetooth stuff like that,.it can be hit or miss a little. You might need to access your bluetooth settings to push the connection.


Sounds like the behavior I want, thank you! Now just need to wait untill the Singapore store starts selling the black ones.


----------



## FYLegend

david8613 said:


> I dont think the jabras 65t sound bad, I wouldn't describe them that way. They sound good, very high energy, foward sound, bassy perfect for workouts, I like using the 65t for workouts outside because the ambient mode works, good for safety reasons. Anbes have a wider soundstage also a little forward, not warm. I also used the jabra elites with the right tips also sound very good with great bass, work very well for working out. I used my sennheiser twm and they were good gobs of bass for working out, but they have a much warmer sound sig.


The main problem for me with the 65t is not the tuning, but the clipping distortion and noise floor of the left bud. It seems many people either don't have it or don't notice it, but there is a fairly large number of complaints about it. The Active 65t I tried in store and my own regular 65t have the problem. The sealing is also an issue for me. The medium tips are the most comfortable but the bass doesn't always seal properly especially when commuting. The large tips seal a bit better but the flange flexes back on my ear which is very uncomfortable.


----------



## bronco1015

Does anyone know of any TWS aside from the EarinM2 where either iem can be used as the master by itself? I just moved into a job at work that requires me to be able to pay attention to employees as they walk by or up to me to speak etc. I'm totally blind so prefer to have 1 ear open to the world as i listen to Podcasts, music or whatever. And if theres a sleeper hit like the QCY T1C I might just pull the triggor.


----------



## RobinFood

bronco1015 said:


> Does anyone know of any TWS aside from the EarinM2 where either iem can be used as the master by itself? I just moved into a job at work that requires me to be able to pay attention to employees as they walk by or up to me to speak etc. I'm totally blind so prefer to have 1 ear open to the world as i listen to Podcasts, music or whatever. And if theres a sleeper hit like the QCY T1C I might just pull the triggor.



Sabbat X12 Pro is perfect for this use. You can use either side, and they are open so they let in outside sound too. They are very comfortable and you can easily wear them for an entire 8 hour shift with no discomfort or pressure.


----------



## LouisArmstrong

How do I pick up a phone call on bluetooth with the Louis Vuitton/MW-07?


----------



## bronco1015

RobinFood said:


> Sabbat X12 Pro is perfect for this use. You can use either side, and they are open so they let in outside sound too. They are very comfortable and you can easily wear them for an entire 8 hour shift with no discomfort or pressure.


 awesome! Glad these are an option, as i've thought about getting a pair previously. Thank you for the suggestion.


----------



## mikp

Slater said:


> Looks pretty cool, and is a neat idea.
> 
> And after a million delays, I’m sure it will probably ship in about 2 years.
> 
> That seems to be how 95% of the crowd funded stuff goes...



No info about those behind it - check
Fake random blog blurbs - check
Wrong spec comparisons - check
Many crowdsource pr agencies - check
Spamming updates with other crap crowdfunds- check
Location is set as Cupertino.. Really.... Sure

My predictions is angry comments in December after months of delays.

Just look at the track record for TWS on kickstarter and indiegogo.

I know mavin for some reason tried indiegogo, but they had a working product. For some reason mavin says they are a California company  when they started in Taiwan in 1999. So a lot of _strange _stuff going on in the tech business


----------



## WesennTony

This weekend I tried Anbes 359 and Galaxy Buds. They both sound good, on the same level, but not to the level of MW07 that I once owned. I prefer the sound sig of Galaxy buds, more accurate, neutral and balanced. The problem of them is the size of the buds. They are small, but not the earin M2 kind of small, and the somewhat round shape does not fit my ears well. Anbes 359 are more bean shaped and thus fit my ears perfectly, second to earin M2. So I'm gonna keep Anbes 359 for gym use, and return Galaxy buds. I'm thinking of Nuarl NT10AX whose elongated shape may fit my ears well, and they seem to have better SQ from the feedback here.


----------



## assassin10000

Anyone have the earin m2 and the tiso i4? I know they are worlds apart in features but I'm interested in a side by side pic for size comparison.


----------



## hifi80sman

mikp said:


> No info about those behind it - check
> Fake random blog blurbs - check
> Wrong spec comparisons - check
> Many crowdsource pr agencies - check
> ...


Most of these things are just investors contracting with a Chinese ODM and repackaging it with their sensationalized marketing.  Pretty sure "AirLoop" isn't going to be Sennheiser.


----------



## Slater (Apr 23, 2019)

hifi80sman said:


> Most of these things are just investors contracting with a Chinese ODM and repackaging it with their sensationalized marketing.  Pretty sure "AirLoop" isn't going to be Sennheiser.



Exactly.

A friend of mine has a son in college, and him and a few of his frat bros contracted with a Chinese factory to private label some existing $9 AirPod style buds.

He marketed it with a fancy website, spam emails, and some slick Facebook ads. Sold hundreds of them a month for $99.99 a pair. One month before Christmas he even sold 1,000 pairs.

I asked him about them because he knows I’m into audio, and he said “oh you don’t want ours; they’re total junk.”

He doesn’t sell them anymore because he apparently thought he could get away without paying taxes on the income and the IRS wouldn’t notice. He’s kinda in some hot water right now lol

The point is a huge percentage of the stuff you see on crowd funding sites is fly by night scams or shady operations. It’s often considered by investors as the ‘Wild West’, where just about anything goes.


----------



## actorlife (Apr 23, 2019)

Flash sale. For those looking for sports Earbuds that won't fall out.
Wireless Earbuds Bluetooth 5.0 Wireless Sport Earbuds 60H Cycle Playtime 3D Stereo Sound Wireless Headphones Built-in Microphone, Sweatproof with Charging Case https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07N633YWG/ref=cm_sw_r_sms_apa_i_a45VCb8DYGFWX

*Anbes 359 rebadge.
Flash sale*
Wireless Earbuds, Bluetooth 5.0 True Wireless Headphones, Hands Free Sweatproof Earbuds 15H Playing Time Built-in HD Dual Microphone – Black https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07N1GXXFN/ref=cm_sw_r_sms_apa_i_yj6VCb0XDTXD5


----------



## hifi80sman

Slater said:


> Exactly.
> 
> A friend of mine has a son in college, and him and a few of his frat bros contracted with a Chinese factory to private label some existing $9 AirPod style buds.
> 
> ...


Yup.  Buy Chi-Fi that is unabashedly Chi-Fi, not Chi-Fi masquerading as some ingenious product.  You _*could *_buy the Raycon and "Power your Hustle" for $79.99 *or *you can buy the "XIKER" for $26.99 and still, hopefully, "Power your Hustle".


----------



## silverfishla

QCY T1C, just got them.  Thanks guys for the inexpensive recommendation.  They are surprisingly good sounding (with Spinfits).  Surprisingly small and light.  Good connections too.  I like them!


----------



## Slater

hifi80sman said:


> Yup.  Buy Chi-Fi that is unabashedly Chi-Fi, not Chi-Fi masquerading as some ingenious product.  You _*could *_buy the Raycon and "Power your Hustle" for $79.99 *or *you can buy the "XIKER" for $26.99 and still, hopefully, "Power your Hustle".



haha

There's a sucker born every minute!


----------



## Terminator3000

Got my White Marble MW07' today!


----------



## clerkpalmer

Terminator3000 said:


> Got my White Marble MW07' today!


Sweetness. Please report on battery life. I am interested to know if they have quietly solved battery issues.


----------



## BobJS

Terminator3000 said:


> Got my White Marble MW07' today!



Love it.  Almost too pretty to use.  Belongs in a museum!


----------



## hifi80sman

clerkpalmer said:


> Sweetness. Please report on battery life. I am interested to know if they have quietly solved battery issues.


Yes, please.


----------



## actorlife (Apr 24, 2019)

Actually size wise they are not that bad. The price is still too steep for me. Enjoy them.


----------



## d3myz (Apr 24, 2019)

Slater said:


> Buh Bam!
> 
> https://www.gearbest.com/blog/new-g...-true-wireless-earbuds-at-half-the-price-3822



both look pretty decent, Aliexpress has them for $26. Has anyone used either version of the airdots?


----------



## BigZ12

https://www.joybuy.com/600891438.html#tab-detail
$10 coupon.
Anyone tried these? AAC and looking good otherwise too.

Anyway... Got my Anbes 359 today, and don't think I need any other TWS  Put on Comply TW tips, and they fit amazingly for me. Sound, fit, comfort, volume controls, connection, battery... It really is ticking every box for $30. 

My friend want to buy the 359 too. Is $34 on Aliexpress (-$3 new user coupon) the cheapest out there?


----------



## Arthur Li

Used to think that aptx is just gimmick......turns out the difference between SBC and aptx is immense. Sennheiser MTW sounds boomy and overwhelming with SBC, bass response get much tighter with aptx.


----------



## Terminator3000

clerkpalmer said:


> Sweetness. Please report on battery life. I am interested to know if they have quietly solved battery issues.



Used them today. The battery life seems the same. I've never really had a issue myself as I only use them for 2 hours while I'm at the gym.


----------



## AtariPrime

FYLegend said:


> The main problem for me with the 65t is not the tuning, but the clipping distortion and noise floor of the left bud. It seems many people either don't have it or don't notice it, but there is a fairly large number of complaints about it. The Active 65t I tried in store and my own regular 65t have the problem. The sealing is also an issue for me. The medium tips are the most comfortable but the bass doesn't always seal properly especially when commuting. The large tips seal a bit better but the flange flexes back on my ear which is very uncomfortable.



What store did you find that will let you try them on in the store?  I don't know of any stores around me other than Bose that does in-store earbud tryouts.


----------



## actorlife

BigZ12 said:


> https://www.joybuy.com/600891438.html#tab-detail
> $10 coupon.
> Anyone tried these? AAC and looking good otherwise too.
> 
> ...


Glad you like the Anbes 359 they are a truly great TWS for the price(some people say better the the $300 Senns TWS). Yep $31 is a good price. I paid $31.44 for mine on amazon flash sale. I would skip those *J.ZAO *and get the Anbes 360(I have not heard them, yet, but reviews seem good). If I ever get a good price($30) on them I'd buy them without hesitation.


----------



## FYLegend

AtariPrime said:


> What store did you find that will let you try them on in the store?  I don't know of any stores around me other than Bose that does in-store earbud tryouts.


My local Best Buy Canada had a Jabra salesman there one day. It was a few weeks before Boxing Day and the 65t were on sale for 150$ CAD and the Actives for 180$.


----------



## MidSmoothness

actorlife said:


> Glad you like the Anbes 359 they are a truly great TWS for the price(some people say better the the $300 Senns TWS). Yep $31 is a good price. I paid $31.44 for mine on amazon flash sale. I would skip those *J.ZAO *and get the Anbes 360(I have not heard them, yet, but reviews seem good). If I ever get a good price($30) on them I'd buy them without hesitation.



Looks like the Anbes 360 is the exact same TWS as the Hoco ES24 I recently ordered.


----------



## The Socialist Nerd

BobJS said:


> Love it.  Almost too pretty to use.  Belongs in a museum!



I just got my pair of black MW07’s this afternoon and I will be reporting on how well they function in daily practice. So far the sonic quality is close to my Audeze iSine LX but they lack that complete transparency harbored by the latter.


----------



## hifi80sman

Arthur Li said:


> Used to think that aptx is just gimmick......turns out the difference between SBC and aptx is immense. Sennheiser MTW sounds boomy and overwhelming with SBC, bass response get much tighter with aptx.


SBC is noticeably fuzzy and just sounds compressed.  There are good implementations of it, but a Prius only goes so fast.

AAC with Apple Music sounds really good, but IMHO, Spotify over aptX sounds slightly better.

The difference between SBC and aptX is apparent when using IEMs or headphones with good drivers.  Take the Sennheiser Momentum Over Ear Wireless.  Over SBC, they sound hazy and muffled, but when streaming via aptX with the same source, the sound becomes more open and detailed.  They are still a warm headphone, so the adjectives are relative, obviously.


----------



## hifi80sman

The Socialist Nerd said:


> I just got my pair of black MW07’s this afternoon and I will be reporting on how well they function in daily practice. So far the sonic quality is close to my Audeze iSine LX but they lack that complete transparency harbored by the latter.


When you say Black, do you mean the Matte version or Piano Black?

Also, please advise what device you are using, volume level, battery life before the low battery warning, and total battery life.  That's your assignment for today.


----------



## actorlife

MidSmoothness said:


> Looks like the Anbes 360 is the exact same TWS as the Hoco ES24 I recently ordered.


Fantastic congrats. Would like to hear your thoughts on them when they arrive.


----------



## MidSmoothness

actorlife said:


> Fantastic congrats. Would like to hear your thoughts on them when they arrive.



Will do!


----------



## actorlife

*$30* with clip 30 percent coupon. Holy moly cheapest thus far.
Anbes 359 Bluetooth 5.0 True Wireless Earbuds, 24H Playtime Deep Bass HD Sound, Headphones Noise Cancelling, in-Ear Headset with Built-in Mic Hands-Free Calls
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07M8LWN2G/ref=cm_sw_r_sms_apa_i_3MmWCbFT05D4E


----------



## chinmie

Arthur Li said:


> Used to think that aptx is just gimmick......turns out the difference between SBC and aptx is immense. Sennheiser MTW sounds boomy and overwhelming with SBC, bass response get much tighter with aptx.





hifi80sman said:


> SBC is noticeably fuzzy and just sounds compressed.  There are good implementations of it, but a Prius only goes so fast.
> 
> AAC with Apple Music sounds really good, but IMHO, Spotify over aptX sounds slightly better.
> 
> The difference between SBC and aptX is apparent when using IEMs or headphones with good drivers.  Take the Sennheiser Momentum Over Ear Wireless.  Over SBC, they sound hazy and muffled, but when streaming via aptX with the same source, the sound becomes more open and detailed.  They are still a warm headphone, so the adjectives are relative, obviously.



try listening to garage rock or indie with SBC, it really got the mood right! 

switching between SBC to AAC/APTX on the same device will surely have an audible effect. whether they consider it subtle and negligible or big and essential well that is subjective. but i would question someone who says there's no difference. won't try to debate them, because ears are different..but would take their opinions with more grains of salt


----------



## howdy

Anyone have their MTW connect to your phone while the buds are still in the charging case. Mine did today and I was able to play music while in the case.


----------



## clerkpalmer

howdy said:


> Anyone have their MTW connect to your phone while the buds are still in the charging case. Mine did today and I was able to play music while in the case.


Yes. Common problem and annoying AF. If your charging case dies that will happen.


----------



## howdy

clerkpalmer said:


> Yes. Common problem and annoying AF. If your charging case dies that will happen.


After having there for quite a few months I surprised this is the first time it's happened. They need to update where when it's placed in the case they are powered off.


----------



## The Socialist Nerd (Apr 25, 2019)

hifi80sman said:


> When you say Black, do you mean the Matte version or Piano Black?
> 
> Also, please advise what device you are using, volume level, battery life before the low battery warning, and total battery life.  That's your assignment for today.



Matte Black.

Volume level - 100, device used - iPhone XR, battery life - maybe 30 percent? (just a guess), total battery life - ?


----------



## tommo21

I've been testing 4 different IEM's based on reading different posts in this group for the last 2 weeks.

Here's my short summary:

Blitzwolf BW-FYE4 - Widest soundstage of them all, massive bass, bass bleeds into lower mids. OK detail treble
Anomoibuds IP010-A - OK Bass, Recessed mids and low detail in treble. Sounds a bit closed in.
Anbes 359 - Good bass, Good mids. Highs OK, but lack detail.
Tiso i4 -  The best of them for me so far. Neutral sounding good detail in bass, mids and highs, but narrow soundstage and could use more air in the treble.

All tested with the original accessories. Got good fit on them all after changing between different sizes eartips.

To come:
QCY T1C
Advanced Audio Model X


----------



## Edric Li

Tannoy is releasing a TW called Life Bud for only $79.


----------



## david8613

yes still enjoying the anbes 359, battery lasts for ever, sounds great. one thing I noticed that is very good, when exercising no thumping in the ear, maybe slightly but its not really noticeable. my other buds are horrible in this department, especially the sennheiser mtw those thump the hardest in ear while walking or running.


----------



## Peddler

Just written a review for the rather excellent Mavin Air-X

https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/mavin-air-x-bluetooth-tws.23697/reviews#review-21950


----------



## actorlife (Apr 25, 2019)

tommo21 said:


> I've been testing 4 different IEM's based on reading different posts in this group for the last 2 weeks.
> 
> Here's my short summary:
> 
> ...



*Lack detail? What about soundstage? To me out of all 5 that I own the Anbes 359 has the largest soundstage. Does great with movies/TV show vocal clarity. Don't ya think? Did you use different tips or stock? Otherwise I agree with you and thank you for the comparisons.*


----------



## actorlife

These look promising:
https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/...F2kRVZScXJlbxW1JuKkf_5SuoL8-5eIc7NYRa36ynHk#/


----------



## mikp (Apr 25, 2019)

actorlife said:


> These look promising:
> https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/mezone-best-sounding-snug-fit-tws-plus-earbuds?utm_source=fb ads&utm_campaign=bp list&fbclid=IwAR07pUFKgW56Rbw-F2kRVZScXJlbxW1JuKkf_5SuoL8-5eIc7NYRa36ynHk#/



These were also on globalsouces.com before someone on kickstarter found it, after that they removed the listing

https://webcache.googleusercontent....eless-Earphone.htm+&cd=14&hl=no&ct=clnk&gl=no


https://www.google.com/search?q=Mez...iw=1240&bih=657&dpr=2.68#imgrc=tGLNG4oF_XAPDM:


----------



## Slater

mikp said:


> These were also on globalsouces.com before someone on kickstarter found it, after that they removed the listing
> 
> https://webcache.googleusercontent....eless-Earphone.htm+&cd=14&hl=no&ct=clnk&gl=no
> 
> ...



So what are you saying? Did the listing get removed because it was shady or something?


----------



## actorlife

mikp said:


> These were also on globalsouces.com before someone on kickstarter found it, after that they removed the listing
> 
> https://webcache.googleusercontent....eless-Earphone.htm+&cd=14&hl=no&ct=clnk&gl=no
> 
> ...


30 bucks damn.


----------



## mikp

Slater said:


> So what are you saying? Did the listing get removed because it was shady or something?


probably against some kickstarter rules about a product that already is made for sale etc, thats why they got suspended.

Shenzhen Hongnanke Communication Co., Ltd.
Also they listed Robert  as creator on kickstarter, a marketing guy in the u.s, another reason could be suspended.


----------



## C_Lindbergh

actorlife said:


> These look promising:
> https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/mezone-best-sounding-snug-fit-tws-plus-earbuds?utm_source=fb ads&utm_campaign=bp list&fbclid=IwAR07pUFKgW56Rbw-F2kRVZScXJlbxW1JuKkf_5SuoL8-5eIc7NYRa36ynHk#/



1. No Ambient mode
2. No EQ
3. No mention of which bluetooth codec it will support


----------



## Slater

mikp said:


> probably against some kickstarter rules about a product that already is made for sale etc, thats why they got suspended.
> 
> Shenzhen Hongnanke Communication Co., Ltd.
> Also they listed Robert  as creator on kickstarter, a marketing guy in the u.s, another reason could be suspended.



Gotcha. So basically yet another case of what I wrote about a few posts earlier.

Someone buys an already-existing product, adds a slick marketing campaign, and triples the price.


----------



## hifi80sman (Apr 25, 2019)

Slater said:


> Gotcha. So basically yet another case of what I wrote about a few posts earlier.
> 
> Someone buys an already-existing product, adds a slick marketing campaign, and triples the price.


In this case...marketing...not so slick.

MEZONE - Sounds like we're going Chi-Fi out the gate.  I would have changed the name to BASSer.

Um...is that "Robert"?  "Billy"?  "John"?


----------



## actorlife

More lighting sales:
Bluetooth Headphones DULLA True Wireless noise Cancelling Earphones Sweatproof Waterproof with Microphone Earbuds,Compatible with All Smartphones https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07P1HZG6G/ref=cm_sw_r_sms_apa_i_iwKWCb1DAT36T
And
Bluetooth Earbuds 5.0 True Wireless Mini Headsets, AINEED Sweatproof TWS Noise Cancelling Isolating Sport Earphones with Portable Charging Case for Android and iOS Phones (Black) https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07Q6YK8VH/ref=cm_sw_r_sms_apa_i_6MKWCbC1MVENT


----------



## howdy (Apr 25, 2019)

Got some Earin M2s in route can't wait to try these and compare them to my other TW.


The Anbes 359 are on a lightning deal through Amazon for a bit more. 30 bucks. I wouldn't mind but 5 pairs of TW is to many already.


----------



## actorlife

I guess this is the cheapest 8hr battery TWS? 
Zolo Liberty [Upgraded] True-Wireless Headphones, 8-Hour Playtime (100 Hours with Charging Case), Bluetooth 5 Bluetooth Earbuds with Graphene Driver Technology, IPX5 Sweatproof, Handsfree Stereo Calls https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07GKHYVM8/ref=cm_sw_r_sms_apa_i_-XLWCbFWDFRA1


----------



## actorlife

howdy said:


> Got some Earin M2s in route can't wait to try these and compare them to my other TW.
> 
> 
> The Anbes 359 are on a lightning deal through Amazon for a bit more. 30 bucks. I wouldn't mind but 5 pairs of TW is to many already.


Hey Hey never too much.  Buy both and return the one you don't like.


----------



## howdy

actorlife said:


> Hey Hey never too much.  Buy both and return the one you don't like.


I thought about it.


----------



## turbobb

PSA: Looks like MEE Audio has fianlly joined the TWS fray but strange that they've been so quiet about it (didn't see any PR wires yet):
https://www.meeaudio.com/X10

BT5, IPX5, 4.5hrs (+18 = 22.5 total), 5mm driver

There's no mention of codecs even though they are usually pretty good about publishing that.


----------



## clerkpalmer

turbobb said:


> PSA: Looks like MEE Audio has fianlly joined the TWS fray but strange that they've been so quiet about it (didn't see any PR wires yet):
> https://www.meeaudio.com/X10
> 
> BT5, IPX5, 4.5hrs (+18 = 22.5 total), 5mm driver
> ...


Looks a lot like the advanced sound.


----------



## chinmie

howdy said:


> Got some Earin M2s in route can't wait to try these and compare them to my other TW.
> 
> 
> The Anbes 359 are on a lightning deal through Amazon for a bit more. 30 bucks. I wouldn't mind but 5 pairs of TW is to many already.



i have 6, that's one more than you 
although it's not too expensive and fun to collect them, i do agree with you. it's different than collecting wired earphones because they would last longer (i still use my speakers and headphones from 20 years ago) , while TWS would degrade faster because of the battery and future tech. i might have to get rid of some of them before i purchase a new one. 

the temptation of buying these TWS are stronger than wired though 



actorlife said:


> I guess this is the cheapest 8hr battery TWS?
> Zolo Liberty [Upgraded] True-Wireless Headphones, 8-Hour Playtime (100 Hours with Charging Case), Bluetooth 5 Bluetooth Earbuds with Graphene Driver Technology, IPX5 Sweatproof, Handsfree Stereo Calls https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07GKHYVM8/ref=cm_sw_r_sms_apa_i_-XLWCbFWDFRA1



the Creative Outlier Air is cheaper and has 10 hours per charge, and it has a positive reviews. I'm really tempted to try one


----------



## howdy

chinmie said:


> i have 6, that's one more than you
> although it's not too expensive and fun to collect them, i do agree with you. it's different than collecting wired earphones because they would last longer (i still use my speakers and headphones from 20 years ago) , while TWS would degrade faster because of the battery and future tech. i might have to get rid of some of them before i purchase a new one.
> 
> the temptation of buying these TWS are stronger than wired though
> ...


I have 3 wireless as well just not true wireless. So 8 wireless all together. I still try and enjoy My headphones and CIEMs when possible as well.


----------



## silverfishla (Apr 26, 2019)

I just ordered the Whizzer TP1 TWS (sort of EarPod/iem style) ones.  I’ve got a pair of Whizzer Kylin (wired) that I love, so I’m blind buying this one.  Tesla Dynamic driver, ipx5, cool design, I think it’s long play time (a little vague, if they mean in one session or with charging dock). Anyways, you’ll have to search Ali because I’m on my phone and I don’t know how to link it.
Edit: 5 hrs play, 20 with case.


----------



## QuadraKev

Got some Galaxy Buds, and I gotta say that they sound quite nice. I do wish they were heavier with their bass, but that's more my preference than a fault of the buds.


----------



## DigDub

I like my Galaxy buds as well. Balanced sound. I should have the creative outlier air delivered next week. Hope they are good as well.


----------



## bronco1015

turbobb said:


> PSA: Looks like MEE Audio has fianlly joined the TWS fray but strange that they've been so quiet about it (didn't see any PR wires yet):
> https://www.meeaudio.com/X10
> 
> BT5, IPX5, 4.5hrs (+18 = 22.5 total), 5mm driver
> ...


 Damn. If both could be used as master like the Earin m2 or Sabbat X12 pro, i probably would have taken the chance and preordered them.


----------



## RobinFood

bronco1015 said:


> Damn. If both could be used as master like the Earin m2 or Sabbat X12 pro, i probably would have taken the chance and preordered them.



For the X12, only the left can be a master, but both can be used individually.


----------



## bronco1015

RobinFood said:


> For the X12, only the left can be a master, but both can be used individually.


oh okay, good to know. i was looking at naurl's website since i hadn't made up my mind yet and was still looking and found that the nt01 mt3 can not only be used individually, but it says that whichever side has the most battery at the time is the master. if i wanted to spend mor and get those instead, wondering if they are different enough from the mtw to justify that purchase. If i'm not mistaken from reading through here you own those as well correct?? Have you heard the mtw at all to compare?


----------



## clerkpalmer

bronco1015 said:


> oh okay, good to know. i was looking at naurl's website since i hadn't made up my mind yet and was still looking and found that the nt01 mt3 can not only be used individually, but it says that whichever side has the most battery at the time is the master. if i wanted to spend mor and get those instead, wondering if they are different enough from the mtw to justify that purchase. If i'm not mistaken from reading through here you own those as well correct?? Have you heard the mtw at all to compare?


A little more balanced and less warm than the mtw.  Mtw has a bit of a boomy quality I don’t love but eq can temper it.   I would say it’s close. Not better or worse just different. If forced to choose, might give the edge to mtw for tonality. I will say the nuarl punches above its weight and comes very close to the big boys of mw07 and mtw for 1/2 the price. I don’t think anyone could be disappointed with their sq.


----------



## Arthur Li

My mw07 should arrive within a few hours. Would compare them with the Sennheiser......even though many have already done so......


----------



## vladzakhar

I have  the Nuarl nt01ax and noticed this annoying problem. Sometimes one of the earbuds suddenly completely loose the sound. I have to turn this earbud off and on again in order to start it working again. I have them for a week and it does it once a day without any pattern. Does somebody else have this problem? 
Also, how can I reset the buds. Nothing about it in the manual. And can FW be updated?


----------



## Claydelas

Could anyone please give me a quick comparison of QCY T1 vs Anbes 359? I've read all previous posts regarding both, yet I can't make up my mind about which to buy. It's mostly due to the QCY having 90000+ orders between all listings on Aliexpress, while the 359s have barely 20. Not to mention how shady, misleading and straight up wrong the descriptions of the 359's listings are.

I'd prefer the better one with the better overall package, with SQ being a priority. I don't have much experience in the TWS market, in fact, it'd be my first pair of buds, so I want to make a good decision.

I can get the Anbes for 27 USD
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/ANB...ml?spm=a2g0o.cart.99999999.265.64973c00KcPh9e
or for 30 USD (looks like a more legitimate seller)
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/ANB...ml?spm=a2g0o.cart.99999999.259.3fa93c00lhESDT
QCY T1s would be about 20 USD.

Thanks!

By the way, QCY T2 is out in China, 34 USD converted, with volume control and supposedly same SQ as T1.
https://detail.tmall.com/item.htm?s...65474axy9Uw&id=590797493599&scene=taobao_shop
Korean review:

"In English~ Qcy T2 sound quality is almost same as Qcy T1. just little tiny improvement. but now u can volume control by button on unit ( as you know Qcy T1 cant ) and connectivity also have little progress. when you press button, reaction rate is also better than Qcy T1 (of course Tiny improvement) now price is about $34 in china." summarised the author.


----------



## david8613

i have had so many truewireless buds I can even count them, I was losing track! so now I only carry 3 to four models for my rotation, and sell the rest, use money to buy more! lol. my rotation now is sennheiser twm, Jabra 65t active, and anbes 359. I was kind of looking at the master & dynamics but  after hearing the anbes 359 I am holding off spending that kind of money on tw, I have a funny feeling another sleeper is coming down the pipe and we will have something under 100.00 that rivals the seinheiser, b&o, and master & dynamics. I wonder when v-moda will jump in the ring that's the one I would be interested in buying!


----------



## bronco1015

clerkpalmer said:


> A little more balanced and less warm than the mtw.  Mtw has a bit of a boomy quality I don’t love but eq can temper it.   I would say it’s close. Not better or worse just different. If forced to choose, might give the edge to mtw for tonality. I will say the nuarl punches above its weight and comes very close to the big boys of mw07 and mtw for 1/2 the price. I don’t think anyone could be disappointed with their sq.


i agree about that bloomy quality, i've managed to eq it out, and get the treble and mids right where i wanted them despite the less than steller dot eq. it's to bad it isn't mor customizable, because i think those drivers have a lot of potential. Rant over. Thank you for commenting, i think for me that means i won't get the nt01. but probably would if i didn't own the mtw.


----------



## korefuji

so folks i'm on the hunt for another pair of TWEs.

I was looking at the nuarl, as I like their design, but I live in the UK so can't find a company to source from.

I have owned the Senn's/ M&D / Jabra Elite Active 65t and now currently own a pair of Earin M2.

The new pair should ideally have IPX5 or above, 5 hour play time, support aptx and aac, should be under £200.

I'm also looking for a third pair, to gift, and needs to be under £60 for a friend and support the same, he has a pair of TWEs but they only support SBC.

I'm hearing a lot about the Anbes 359, but only the 358 is available here, and the 360 is out now I read. The Mavin X read good to, but again as I'm in the UK I would prefer to get it from a store here so that I can return if they develop a fault easily.

TIA


----------



## clerkpalmer

bronco1015 said:


> i agree about that bloomy quality, i've managed to eq it out, and get the treble and mids right where i wanted them despite the less than steller dot eq. it's to bad it isn't mor customizable, because i think those drivers have a lot of potential. Rant over. Thank you for commenting, i think for me that means i won't get the nt01. but probably would if i didn't own the mtw.


No real need for both unless you have the sickness like I do.


----------



## korefuji (Apr 26, 2019)

https://musicphotolife.com/2018/05/sudio-niva-review-true-wireless-earphones/ Seen this? They're under $100 but lack features, from Sweden apparently https://www.sudio.com/gb/


----------



## RobinFood

vladzakhar said:


> I have  the Nuarl nt01ax and noticed this annoying problem. Sometimes one of the earbuds suddenly completely loose the sound. I have to turn this earbud off and on again in order to start it working again. I have them for a week and it does it once a day without any pattern. Does somebody else have this problem?
> Also, how can I reset the buds. Nothing about it in the manual. And can FW be updated?



I don't have this problem. The only thing is in hot spots sometimes the connection was spotty, but if I put my source in my shirt pocket the connection was rock solid.
The instructions mention how to do a factory reset. You have to put them in the case, and push them down so they are in charging mode while holding down both buttons for about 10 seconds. It is really awkward to do, and I recommend you hold them down longer than 10 seconds just to be sure. Hope it fixes the issue.


----------



## RobinFood

bronco1015 said:


> oh okay, good to know. i was looking at naurl's website since i hadn't made up my mind yet and was still looking and found that the nt01 mt3 can not only be used individually, but it says that whichever side has the most battery at the time is the master. if i wanted to spend mor and get those instead, wondering if they are different enough from the mtw to justify that purchase. If i'm not mistaken from reading through here you own those as well correct?? Have you heard the mtw at all to compare?



I like their sound more than the sound of the MTW, but it doesn't have an app or EQ or anything like that. They make some instruments sound really good, and are really detailed with great separation. They have a nice wow factor that I just didn't get from the MTW. I think they are about as good as the MW07s, except they have more white noise which can be distracting. That said, they are less than half the price here, but the case is a lot less good than the MW07.


----------



## vladzakhar

Thanks, I'll try to reset them now.


----------



## korefuji (Apr 26, 2019)

https://www.xfyro.com/products/xs2 currently half price, any comments on these? There's no info on them as to whether they support aptx/aac/battery life etc

https://uk.creative.com/p/headphones-headsets/creative-outlier-air - I am looking at these now, and they seem cheap, £75 and with decent reviews, anyone know suitable tips I can use for these?

EDIT: Ordered the creative outlier Air, based on the reviews, they seems outstanding.

You get: AptX/AAC, 10 hours battery life, 20 hours from the case, ipx5 seems great. They're not due out until May 8th


----------



## actorlife (Apr 26, 2019)

Claydelas said:


> Could anyone please give me a quick comparison of QCY T1 vs Anbes 359? I've read all previous posts regarding both, yet I can't make up my mind about which to buy. It's mostly due to the QCY having 90000+ orders between all listings on Aliexpress, while the 359s have barely 20. Not to mention how shady, misleading and straight up wrong the descriptions of the 359's listings are.
> 
> I'd prefer the better one with the better overall package, with SQ being a priority. I don't have much experience in the TWS market, in fact, it'd be my first pair of buds, so I want to make a good decision.
> 
> ...



These claim volume control as well: https://www.gearbest.com/headsets/pp_009262243425.html?wid=1433363
Any release date given? I like the buttons on the YouTube link better. Ah yes and the Anbes 359 under $40 are the best out there for the price. I have other TWS and they are good, but the 359 have better soundstage/treble clarity(without harshness) and good bass. They work fantastic with music and streaming Movies/TV shows/Youtube. Someone here said they are better than the Sennheiser TWS and that's high praise. I never heard the T1 because no volume control.


----------



## Claydelas

actorlife said:


> These claim volume control as well: https://www.gearbest.com/headsets/pp_009262243425.html?wid=1433363
> Any release date given? I like the buttons on the YouTube link better.


They were released on the 23rd, a few days ago. There is no information about international sales yet.


----------



## actorlife (Apr 26, 2019)

Claydelas said:


> They were released on the 23rd, a few days ago. There is no information about international sales yet.


Thanks I'll probably pick them up when they go on sale. Are getting them? Those Creative for $79 look good I might bite after I get the QC T2.  clay I edited my last post go look at it.


----------



## actorlife

korefuji said:


> https://www.xfyro.com/products/xs2 currently half price, any comments on these? There's no info on them as to whether they support aptx/aac/battery life etc
> 
> https://uk.creative.com/p/headphones-headsets/creative-outlier-air - I am looking at these now, and they seem cheap, £75 and with decent reviews, anyone know suitable tips I can use for these?
> 
> ...


Please let us know how you like the creative. Congrats.


----------



## actorlife (Apr 26, 2019)

A bit more info on T2: https://en.xiaomitoday.it/xiaomi-qcy-t2-tws-bluetooth-earphones.html

Well well 8 hr battery for $39 bucks + 10 shipping. Who's in? : https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/base-the-first-long-lasting-true-wireless-earbuds?fbclid=IwAR3pLqvcCwcrqgxzIyi2j37dvttm5TJibNZwIAq5De9zOIhjsIsMX-JwMOI#

8hrs TWS: https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/sonabuds-2-pro-listen-for-15hrs-without-recharging#/
Campaign is over, but can find the 8hr version on eBay for about $99.


----------



## milkybrkid

korefuji said:


> so folks i'm on the hunt for another pair of TWEs.
> 
> I was looking at the nuarl, as I like their design, but I live in the UK so can't find a company to source from.
> 
> ...



I believe this is the rebranded UK version :- https://www.amazon.co.uk/Wireless-B...com+earphones&qid=1555866084&s=gateway&sr=8-7


----------



## Arthur Li

Surprisingly, I prefer the sound of mw07 over momentum TW. Overall, I find mw07 sounding more balance than the momentum. Momentum is just too bassy and has a slight tendency to emphasize sibilance. On the other hand, mw07 is bassy but not boomy. Sibilance isn't as pronounced as the Sennheiser. 

However, I do notice that the Sennheiser has better clarity - possibly due to it's blacker background (a faint background hiss can be heard when wearing mw07). The Sennheiser also pulls out noticeably more details than mw07. Another advantage the Sennheiser has over mw07 is mid-range balance. Vocal sounds a bit thin on mw07, while momentum TW renders vocal naturally.


----------



## actorlife

milkybrkid said:


> I believe this is the rebranded UK version :- https://www.amazon.co.uk/Wireless-B...com+earphones&qid=1555866084&s=gateway&sr=8-7


5 out of 5 stars look like the same ones. Hopefully they can get 10hrs on the newer hopefully soon upcoming models.


----------



## mikp

Found a review on the 30$ syllable s101

Sounds the same as SoundPEATS Truengine
Not stable connection


----------



## AtariPrime

It looks as though there aren't any current lists of recommendations for True Wireless IEMS.  Which IEM, True Wireless IEM, headphone, etc. to buy seems to be about half the questions posed on the site but often the lists available are several years old.  

Can anyone provide an updated list of recommendations?

I do not have any true wireless IEMs, but from what I can tell, the rankings would be somewhat as below.  Do you agree?

1.  Jabra Elite Active 65t.  - Well rounded but not the best in any particular category. Average battery life.
2.  Mavin Air-X.  - Great sound.  Slightly bulky.  Best battery life and range on market.
3.  Sennheiser Momentum True Wireless.  - Good sound with strong bass but a bit bulky with clunky controls.  Average battery life.
4.  B&O E8.  - Good sound with strong bass but a bit bulky with clunky controls.  Average battery life.
5.  Master & Dynamic MW07.  - Great sound but extremely bulky compared to others.  Average battery life.
6.  Under Armour Sport Wireless.  - Great sound.  Slightly bulky.  Clunky controls.  Average battery life.
7.  Earin M-2.  - Average sound quality.  Extremely compact.  Below average battery life.
8.  Samsung Galaxy Buds.  - Average to poor sound quality, but are compact and easy to use.  Average battery life.
9.  Sabbat E12. - 'Chi-Fi' meaning unbranded Chinese product.  Has good battery life and sound.  Good price.  Questionable build quality and warranty.  

Also, ones to look forward to based on available information.

1.  JBL Reflect Flow
2.  Klipsch T5
3.  JBL Tune120TWS
4.  Libratone Track+


----------



## firewatersun

AtariPrime said:


> It looks as though there aren't any current lists of recommendations for True Wireless IEMS.  Which IEM, True Wireless IEM, headphone, etc. to buy seems to be about half the questions posed on the site but often the lists available are several years old.
> 
> Can anyone provide an updated list of recommendations?
> 
> ...



I definitely wouldn't call the e8 or MW07 bulky, any more than any TWS. Of course they're no Earins but they're pretty average for TWS.

The Momentum on the other hand was massive

probably depends on your ear/concha


----------



## hifi80sman

firewatersun said:


> I definitely wouldn't call the e8 or MW07 bulky, any more than any TWS. Of course they're no Earins but they're pretty average for TWS.
> 
> The Momentum on the other hand was massive
> 
> probably depends on your ear/concha


Agree.  The MW07 didn't stick out much and even though it may have a larger "face", the design is pretty streamlined.  I would also say the 65t has above-average battery life, but I do agree with mostly everything else (of the TWEs I've tested).


----------



## OhSoSWIL

Any good tip recommendations? I've seen the Comply's mentioned in this thread but would love to see some other favourites here.

Just got my QCY T1's and do have to say I'm really impressed by the sound of these bad boys. From a straight SQ perspective, I enjoy them over my Jabra 65t's; just wish they were louder. Jabra's are a much brighter/energetic sound (which I prefer when I'm at the gym) but the QCYs sound stage and bass are amazing. Waiting for my Anbes' in the mail to compare further!

Thanks for all the great insight from everyone sharing in the thread!


----------



## korefuji

AtariPrime said:


> It looks as though there aren't any current lists of recommendations for True Wireless IEMS.  Which IEM, True Wireless IEM, headphone, etc. to buy seems to be about half the questions posed on the site but often the lists available are several years old.
> 
> Can anyone provide an updated list of recommendations?
> 
> ...




I'd add 5. Creative Outlier Air to the list of look forward to. Out in approximately 2 weeks or so. BT5/IPX5/10hour run time/Good sound (based on reviews)/Under £80


----------



## Claydelas (Apr 26, 2019)

actorlife said:


> Thanks I'll probably pick them up when they go on sale. Are getting them? Those Creative for $79 look good I might bite after I get the QC T2.  clay I edited my last post go look at it.


Just saw your updated post, really appreciate the feedback!
I've decided to go with the 359s and skip waiting for the QCY to release their new model internationally. I feel like the QCY T2 will just end up being way above their MSRP price on Aliexpress, and I'll regret not taking the 27$ deal on the Anbes. In fact, a few days ago, for a short time, the T2 was listed on Aliexpress for 60$:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Ori...lgo_pvid=8963e7c9-4891-493b-bcf7-f3315fbf7006
I don't think it's worth paying double the price of T1C/QS1 for a redesigned case and volume control, but same SQ.


----------



## Slater

Claydelas said:


> Just saw your updated post, really appreciate the feedback!
> I've decided to go with the 359s and skip waiting for the QCY to release their new model internationally. I feel like the QCY T2 will just end up being way above their MSRP price on Aliexpress after release, and I'll regret not taking the 27$ deal on the Anbes. In fact, a few days ago, for a short time, the T2 was listed on Aliexpress for 60$:
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Ori...lgo_pvid=8963e7c9-4891-493b-bcf7-f3315fbf7006
> I don't think it's worth paying double the price of T1C/QS1 for a redesigned case and volume control, but same SQ.



Just wait until 11.11. It will likely be $25-$30


----------



## actorlife

actorlife said:


> Well well 8 hr battery for $39 bucks + 10 shipping. Who's in? : https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/base-the-first-long-lasting-true-wireless-earbuds?fbclid=IwAR3pLqvcCwcrqgxzIyi2j37dvttm5TJibNZwIAq5De9zOIhjsIsMX-JwMOI#


No one is interested? I'm shocked. 8hrs people. 50 bucks.


----------



## korefuji (Apr 26, 2019)

actorlife said:


> No one is interested? I'm shocked. 8hrs people. 50 bucks.



It's not that no one's interested, it's a case of buyer beware when it comes to crowdfunded tech. I'm glad I'm paying a bit more though, from a UK outfit with Creative, rather than gambling on a crowdfunded product.

If anyone is interested in the reviews for the creative buds:

https://duckduckgo.com/?q=creative+outlier+air&atb=v139-1&ia=web


----------



## actorlife (Apr 26, 2019)

korefuji said:


> It's not that no one's interested, it's a case of buyer beware when it comes to crowdfunded tech. I'm glad I'm paying a bit more though, from a UK outfit with Creative, rather than gambling on a crowdfunded product.
> 
> If anyone is interested in the reviews for the creative buds:
> 
> https://duckduckgo.com/?q=creative+outlier+air&atb=v139-1&ia=web


Yeah I thought that too, but still 8hrs.  I bought my first TWS the Funcl W1($20 now $40ish) from Indiegogo and yes I had to wait awhile, but I got them and thought they were a good bargain, although no volume control. I now stand at 5 different pairs of TWS and nothing come close to the Anbes.


----------



## korefuji

actorlife said:


> Yeah I thought that too, but still 8hrs.  I bought my first TWS the Funcl W1($20 now $40ish) from Indiegogo and yes I had to wait awhile, but I got them and thought they were a good bargain, although no volume control. I now stand at 5 different pairs of TWS and nothing come close to the Anbes.




Have you tried TWEA?


----------



## actorlife

korefuji said:


> Have you tried TWEA?


OH no? What is that? I have a feeling your joking, but...


----------



## korefuji

actorlife said:


> OH no? What is that? I have a feeling your joking, but...


true wireless earbuds anonymous  i think  a few of you guys could go together


----------



## LajostheHun (Apr 27, 2019)

actorlife said:


> No one is interested? I'm shocked. 8hrs people. 50 bucks.


I'm a backer, my perk is the one for both pairs for $79.00


----------



## Bakgrund (Apr 27, 2019)

I have decided that I want a pair of true wireless earbuds, I like that the Galaxy Buds have USB C-charging, a small case, comfortable according to reviews. But there are also $25 US Redmi Airdots that on paper seems to offer much better value. I have read mixed reviews about the sound quality of both of them, some say the Galaxy buds sound fantastic and others say they sound like $10 dollar headphones. The question is if the Galaxy Buds are worth six times as much ($150 US equivalent)? I have such a hard time deciding. What would you do?


----------



## RobinFood

Bakgrund said:


> I have decided that I want a pair of true wireless earbuds, I like that the Galaxy Buds have USB C-charging, a small case, comfortable according to reviews. But there are also $25 US Redmi Airdots that on paper seems to offer much better value. I have read mixed reviews about the sound quality of both of them, some say the Galaxy buds sound fantastic and others say they sound like $10 dollar headphones. The question is if the Galaxy Buds are worth six times as much ($150 US equivalent)? I have such a hard time deciding. What would you do?



I would try them. There is almost no way of knowing if you will like them unless you try them, no matter how many reviews you read...
That being said, I'm not sure why you picked the Redmi Airdots, as there seem to be very well received sets in that price range (QCY and Anbes models).


----------



## Soreniglio

Hey guys! Quick question : Tiso I4 or Anbes 359? This is my first pair of TWS, so I'm completely new to this


----------



## actorlife

korefuji said:


> true wireless earbuds anonymous  i think  a few of you guys could go together


Yep we are on a mission.


----------



## actorlife

LajostheHun said:


> I'm a backer, my perk is the one for both pairs for $79.00


Great. I might bite for the $50(includes shipping). 

Anyone open their TWS to see if a battery could be swapped?


----------



## SaveTheMantaRays

Further mini follow up review. *ANBES 359*

Not sure why, but the connection of the Anbes 359 has been much better during exercise, lately.

I have played around with different tips, different codecs, different EQ, and different overall settings on the Note 8. So some of those things have obviously helped.  Hopefully I can narrow it down to a true reason why they are functioning better

Getting a bit deeper proper insertion helps with SQ and placement stability in the ear.

I am not a graph reader, so cannot tell you where it shines and has defects.  But there is a bit of harshness, with certain peaks,  but generally is due to worse recording or streaming quality. But purposely harsh sounds in recordings, sound even harsher 

If this had AptX I bet it would boost it up 1 knotch on the SQ list.  I change between a few codecs in the developer options, but it always seems to reconnect and default to SBC.

I find Anbes 359 to really shine with EDM, IDM and rap.  Those genres hit great on the provided bass and also work well for motivation while exercising.

I have tried provided tips, 2 types of Comply,  the sport smartcore and some old normal non sport foams,  do not think they make them the same way from years ago.  And tried some of the provided tips for my iBasso IT01.
All of them change the SQ.  I find both types of comply to make them ever more secure it the ear while moving around.  They are incredibly light and do not move around really any at all, even with properly fitting stock tips.

Still have problems with the on ear controls, honestly I just try to ignore them at this point, besides the pause/play one click.

What are other peoples favorite tips on the Anbes 359?     Anyone ever tried the comply P-series?

Does anyone have other Anbes products they consider even better than the 359?


----------



## actorlife

SaveTheMantaRays said:


> Further mini follow up review. *ANBES 359*
> 
> Not sure why, but the connection of the Anbes 359 has been much better during exercise, lately.
> 
> ...


I've been using the Sony hybrid tips and so far I like them. If they had aptXHD man would these the best out there. I tried a comply ebay cheap type, but they were too hard and not soft enough to squeeze, so don't use them. As far as Anbes the 360 is the highest in the series. I'm waiting for a $30 sale so I can give my mini review. Enjoy them. 
Anyone who is apprehensive about getting the anbes don't be.


----------



## mikp

well, I talked myself into getting the Syllable  S101. Just to see how crap they are compared to the mavins. Replacing my cheap kozon a5 that now has started to drain while in the charging case. Probably be using them as single buds stored in my jackets, if thyey can be turned on\off without the case.


----------



## BigZ12

Just a tip (pun intended), the Comply Foam Truegrip tips are (in my ears) a fantastic fit for the Anbes 359. The Truegrip tips were too small when I originally bought them for the Senn' MTWs, but are so good with the 359's.
Very tight seal, with tight/deep/punchy bass. No noise when walking, running, chewing etc. (this is an issue with silicone tips I think)
Vocals and mids are also very good with the Anbes and Truegrip, but I'm not sure if the Waxguard make me lose some details in the highs? 

I can actually sleep with the 359s and the truegrips, this morning I woke up with the buds still safely in my ears. (I lay mostly on the side too)


----------



## actorlife

BigZ12 said:


> Just a tip (pun intended), the Comply Foam Truegrip tips are (in my ears) a fantastic fit for the Anbes 359. The Truegrip tips were too small when I originally bought them for the Senn' MTWs, but are so good with the 359's.
> Very tight seal, with tight/deep/punchy bass. No noise when walking, running, chewing etc. (this is an issue with silicone tips I think)
> Vocals and mids are also very good with the Anbes and Truegrip, but I'm not sure if the Waxguard make me lose some details in the highs?
> 
> I can actually sleep with the 359s and the truegrips, this morning I woke up with the buds still safely in my ears. (I lay mostly on the side too)


Thanks for the info. These any good? https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https://www.ebay.com/ulk/itm/382527759315


----------



## BigZ12

actorlife said:


> Thanks for the info. These any good? https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https://www.ebay.com/ulk/itm/382527759315


I think the inner diameter on the 400s are too wide for the Anbes? Not sure. Anbes is not listed on Comply Foam website. All I can say is that the Truegrip fits like a glove. I think the 200s (T-200/TS-200) are about the same inner diameter size as the Truegrips. Again not sure...
They are also longer, and that could be a problem with the charging case.


----------



## BigZ12

actorlife said:


> Thanks for the info. These any good? https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https://www.ebay.com/ulk/itm/382527759315


I found a T-400 and a T-200 in my collection  Both fit the Anbes, (the T-200 was very tight, so actually the 400 has the right inner diameter). Sadly both does not fit the charging case particularly well. I could get them to charge, but I had to push them down.


----------



## actorlife

BigZ12 said:


> I found a T-400 and a T-200 in my collection  Both fit the Anbes, (the T-200 was very tight, so actually the 400 has the right inner diameter). Sadly both does not fit the charging case particularly well. I could get them to charge, but I had to push them down.


Yep that was a problem with the ones I have I mean they fit the case but got stuck in there. How the the SQ compares to the 400 vs truegrips? You knew I had to ask.


----------



## BigZ12

actorlife said:


> Yep that was a problem with the ones I have I mean they fit the case but got stuck in there. How the the SQ compares to the 400 vs truegrips? You knew I had to ask.


I will say the sounded very similar. The positive with the 400s (medium size) were the fit. They went a little deeper in the ear, and while they are a bit wider too I felt they were even more secure than the Truegrips. But I ruled them out anyway because of the charging case fit.
Thankfully the Truegrips give me the same seal and therefore the same quality bass.


----------



## Claydelas

Just FYI, there's a flash deal on AliExpress for the Tiso i4s, 20$ (60% off), from the official seller too.
https://s.click.aliexpress.com/e/AQRsaNa


----------



## korefuji

So folks, I'm not a huge fan of silicone ear tips. As you might be aware, I've ordered these: https://uk.creative.com/p/headphones-headsets/creative-outlier-air can anyone suggest suitable foam ear tips to use with these? You can see that they're not your typical ear tips and are rather small. I was thinking the comply true wireless tips, but I'm not 100% sure on those, if anyone can advise. I'd appreciate it.


----------



## Slater

korefuji said:


> So folks, I'm not a huge fan of silicone ear tips. As you might be aware, I've ordered these: https://uk.creative.com/p/headphones-headsets/creative-outlier-air can anyone suggest suitable foam ear tips to use with these? You can see that they're not your typical ear tips and are rather small. I was thinking the comply true wireless tips, but I'm not 100% sure on those, if anyone can advise. I'd appreciate it.



You could always just cut down a foam tip. I’ve done it many times on wired IEMs.


----------



## webvan

Claydelas said:


> Just FYI, there's a flash deal on AliExpress for the Tiso i4s, 20$ (60% off), from the official seller too.
> https://s.click.aliexpress.com/e/AQRsaNa


Half tempted again, too bad they have no volume control...Are they really as tiny as they look, i.e. like the Eariin M-2 ?


----------



## korefuji

Slater said:


> You could always just cut down a foam tip. I’ve done it many times on wired IEMs.



I'm never confident enough to cut things down, I don't have the steadiest of hands! It looks like the true wireless comply might fit based on the comparison with the jabra elite 65t shapes


----------



## Slater

korefuji said:


> I'm never confident enough to cut things down, I don't have the steadiest of hands! It looks like the true wireless comply might fit based on the comparison with the jabra elite 65t shapes



Fair enough friend. Let us know how the tips work out, as there are others who want foams I'm sure


----------



## Soreniglio

What are the best TWS earbuds that go under 90 $? 

Best all-rounders would be good.


----------



## clerkpalmer

Soreniglio said:


> What are the best TWS earbuds that go under 90 $?
> 
> Best all-rounders would be good.



Right now maybe look at creative outlier air at that price or the newly launched advanced tw. I haven’t heard creative but soundguys loved them and called them the tw to beat atm. My advanced arrive tomorrow so I’ll report with my thoughts.


----------



## Soreniglio

clerkpalmer said:


> Right now maybe look at creative outlier air at that price or the newly launched advanced tw. I haven’t heard creative but soundguys loved them and called them the tw to beat atm. My advanced arrive tomorrow so I’ll report with my thoughts.



Couldn't buy Creative Outlier Air even if I wanted to, since they're out of stock again.

I'll be waiting for your thoughts on the Advanced TW, thanks a lot man!


----------



## Arthur Li

Hifiman just announce a pair of tws earbuds. Should be around 150USD. Using their topology driver. No aptX though.


----------



## clerkpalmer

Arthur Li said:


> Hifiman just announce a pair of tws earbuds. Should be around 150USD. Using their topology driver. No aptX though.


Can you post a link? Thanks.


----------



## Ocelitgol

https://ascii.jp/elem/000/001/852/1852581/

For anyone interest


----------



## Arthur Li

clerkpalmer said:


> Can you post a link? Thanks.


Sure. No english though......http://my-hiend.com/wp/hifiman發表兩款無線耳機tws600、ananda-bt/


----------



## Arthur Li

BTW, it seems to have tons of firmware bugs.


----------



## clerkpalmer

Arthur Li said:


> Sure. No english though......http://my-hiend.com/wp/hifiman發表兩款無線耳機tws600、ananda-bt/


Wow. Looks like they are very robust. Sound quality maybe a focus. Any eta on release?


----------



## Arthur Li

clerkpalmer said:


> Wow. Looks like they are very robust. Sound quality maybe a focus. Any eta on release?


I just check the internet and realize that the product is was released in China 2 weeks ago LOL......many Chinese mainlanders have already get the product. On the other hand, HiFiMAN hasn't release any english press about it so I would assume that TWS600 won't be released outside of China soon.


----------



## clerkpalmer

Arthur Li said:


> I just check the internet and realize that the product is was released in China 2 weeks ago LOL......many Chinese mainlanders have already get the product. On the other hand, HiFiMAN hasn't release any english press about it so I would assume that TWS600 won't be released outside of China soon.


How are the reviews?


----------



## Arthur Li

clerkpalmer said:


> How are the reviews?


Very polarized. I checked out lots of Chinese reviews and have a feeling that vast majority of positive reviews were paid while the negative ones were from unaffiliated users.


----------



## clerkpalmer

Arthur Li said:


> Very polarized. I checked out lots of Chinese reviews and have a feeling that vast majority of positive reviews were paid while the negative ones were from unaffiliated users.


Thanks. Polarizing isn’t good. I’ll stay away.


----------



## korefuji

clerkpalmer said:


> Thanks. Polarizing isn’t good. I’ll stay away.



Can you link to the Advanced TWs? Thanks


----------



## clerkpalmer

korefuji said:


> Can you link to the Advanced TWs? Thanks


https://www.adv-sound.com/collections/wireless-earphones/products/model-x


----------



## korefuji

clerkpalmer said:


> https://www.adv-sound.com/collections/wireless-earphones/products/model-x



Cheers - they look very interesting, and about a similar price point as the creative's. I don't want to get carried away, so I'll await your review on the Model X!


----------



## chinmie

anyone here tried the meizu pop? there's the Pop 2 version coming up with better battery life, i was wondering about the sound. all i could sum uopright now is that the sound is not bass heavy, which is my preference


----------



## TeamHiFiMAN (Apr 29, 2019)

Arthur Li said:


> Hifiman just announce a pair of tws earbuds. Should be around 150USD. Using their topology driver. No aptX though.





Arthur Li said:


> BTW, it seems to have tons of firmware bugs.





Arthur Li said:


> Very polarized. I checked out lots of Chinese reviews and have a feeling that vast majority of positive reviews were paid while the negative ones were from unaffiliated users.



Hi Mr Auther,

Greetings of the day and thank you for kind attention to HIFIMAN.
TWS600 is HIFIMAN first attempt on true wireless offering and we have just the launched the product in China. As the product is only available currently in China, we have not yet published any press releases for TWS600 outside of China basically for global market.
 We are happy to share with you that our first batch of TW600 was completely sold out in several hours only. And till now we have not received any single complain like firmware issue form the customer who has already purchased the model as a matter of fact firm ware issue are not easy to find in TWS.
Regarding the global release of TWS our team are in process of launching the model soon in different market globally and you will soon hear from us on the release from different market globally.
We as a brand never indulge our self on any kind of "paid" positive reviews, we believe in our products and our craftsmanship. We are always thankful & welcome all our customers to provide honest feedbacks and reviews on our product which we believe our customer do provide us with their both positive & negative feedback.
Hope you will find and likes our newly launched TWS600. We will be more than happy to hear from you.
If you have any kind of suggestion, feedback on our TWS600 do write to us at customerservice@hifiman.com it will help us serve you & other customer better.

Best Regards
HIFIMAN Team


----------



## david8613 (Apr 29, 2019)

can anyone link a set of affordable buds that have aptx on board?


----------



## bubsdaddy

I went for a run with the Anbes 359 this morning. I did 4 miles and was quite pleased with the fit - I sweat like crazy and they stayed in - and the connection didn't drop out at all. I normally run with Bose Soundsport Wireless or the Bose Soundsport Free and both of these exhibit a few "micro-dropouts" during a run. The Anbes was rock solid. It also had the benefit of no wind noise. I am very happy with these inexpensive TWS and recommended them to two of my coworkers who also run.


----------



## webvan

Didn't you get the "thumping" on each stride that you get with IEMs/closed though and that you don't with earbuds/open like the Bose Soundsport Wireless or the X12 that I use exclusively for running now.


----------



## actorlife

david8613 said:


> can anyone link a set of affordable buds that have aptx on board?


These have gotten mix reviews. I guess if you get lucky you get a good pair and your good to go: Wireless Earbuds, IPX8 Waterproof Bluetooth Headphones with Mic, Deep Bass, 3D HiFi Stereo True Bluetooth Earbuds V5.0, 3000mAh Charging Box with CVC8.0 Noise Cancelling Headphones for Running Sport https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07MWSZTK1/ref=cm_sw_r_sms_apa_i_I4WXCb0NAQDP5


----------



## bubsdaddy

webvan said:


> Didn't you get the "thumping" on each stride that you get with IEMs/closed though and that you don't with earbuds/open like the Bose Soundsport Wireless or the X12 that I use exclusively for running now.



I didn't or, if I did, it wasn't noticeable.


----------



## webvan

Ok so that means the seal it not tight then because the "thumping" comes from the air being compressed in the air canal when you strike the ground. And if the seal isn't tight then you don't get good isolation, not a problem for running (on the contrary) but it will be when you're traveling. That's why I've got two pairs, X12 and 65t's...and the Havit, just in case


----------



## Slater

webvan said:


> Ok so that means the seal it not tight then because the "thumping" comes from the air being compressed in the air canal when you strike the ground. And if the seal isn't tight then you don't get good isolation, not a problem for running (on the contrary) but it will be when you're traveling. That's why I've got two pairs, X12 and 65t's...and the Havit, just in case



Agreed. Better sealing tips will eliminate thumping while running. So will using foam tips.


----------



## nc8000

Slater said:


> Agreed. Better sealing tips will eliminate thumping while running. So will using foam tips.



No, the better the seal the stronger the thump


----------



## webvan

nc8000 said:


> No, the better the seal the stronger the thump



Correct !


----------



## AtariPrime

Any thoughts on what the best small TWS IEMs are?  A lot of people seem to like the Earin M-2, but it has suspect battery life.


----------



## nc8000

AtariPrime said:


> Any thoughts on what the best small TWS IEMs are?  A lot of people seem to like the Earin M-2, but it has suspect battery life.



There is nothing suspect about the battery life, it is just on the shorter side at about 3 hours 10-20 minutes. This is my only complaint but on the other hand I have only actually run it flat once in 6 months so obviously not a big problem for me


----------



## largeruk (Apr 30, 2019)

chinmie said:


> try putting some wide bore tips on them. it will increase the sound dramatically.





BigZ12 said:


> I put on my Spinfit CP100Z L. Very happy with that.


I have a set of QCY T1S IEMs - very similar to the T2C - and cannot get any of the supplied silicone tips to stay in my (clearly oddly shaped!) ears.

I'd be very grateful for any suggestions of some foam tips (Comply etc) that fit this particular set of IEMs. I will use them mainly for walking and sports activities so if they're sweat resistant etc., even better.

Also, does anyone know the core size of these?

Many thanks


----------



## Slater

nc8000 said:


> No, the better the seal the stronger the thump





webvan said:


> Correct !



I guess I’m not getting a good seal then, because I don’t get thump when jogging. Or maybe it’s the physical way I’m running (like my stride or not coming down on my feet hard). In any case, I’m glad I don’t get a thump with every step - that would be very annoying.

I do get wind noise when cycling (on a closed trail), which is annoying enough.


----------



## bubsdaddy

Slater said:


> I guess I’m not getting a good seal then, because I don’t get thump when jogging. Or maybe it’s the physical way I’m running (like my stride or not coming down on my feet hard). In any case, I’m glad I don’t get a thump with every step - that would be very annoying.
> 
> I do get wind noise when cycling (on a closed trail), which is annoying enough.



Before wireless existed, most of us mitigated the occlusion effect (the thumping) by looping the wire over each ear as was introduced and demonstrated as the proper technique by Shure for their IEMs. I believe I am getting a pretty good seal with the Anbes 359 and the Auvio tips I am using. I just don't get the occlusion effect from them. I get great bass and don't hear much of the outside. I do watch constantly for any safety issues and I light myself up with reflective clothing and strobe lights as I typically begin my run before the sun comes up (Texas heat and all).


----------



## Slater

bubsdaddy said:


> Before wireless existed, most of us mitigated the occlusion effect (the thumping) by looping the wire over each ear as was introduced and demonstrated as the proper technique by Shure for their IEMs. I believe I am getting a pretty good seal with the Anbes 359 and the Auvio tips I am using. I just don't get the occlusion effect from them. I get great bass and don't hear much of the outside. I do watch constantly for any safety issues and I light myself up with reflective clothing and strobe lights as I typically begin my run before the sun comes up (Texas heat and all).



Ah, now it makes sense. That’s why I don’t get thump then. The IEMs I run with all have behind-the-ear cable routing. When wired IEMs are worn cable down, the cable bounce is what’s causing the thumping.


----------



## webvan

That's the cable "bouncing knock", its not the "thump" that I described above of the air getting compressed in a sealed air canal. I suppose people can be more or less sensitive to it but as far as I'm concerned it's just unbearable, hence my choice of the X12 for running


----------



## Slater

webvan said:


> That's the cable "bouncing knock", its not the "thump" that I described above of the air getting compressed in a sealed air canal. I suppose people can be more or less sensitive to it but as far as I'm concerned it's just unbearable, hence my choice of the X12 for running



I’m sure it also depends on the individual IEM as well.

If the IEM has a small vent in the nozzle that vents air to atmosphere and equalizes pressure, it shouldn’t have any thump because there’s no pressure buildup. This is also why the IEMs with nozzle vent have no driver flex.


----------



## jant71

Any info on the new TFZ B.V2?? Not sure if it is correct at 15 hours play time. Does say 70+ hours play time and 5 full charges I believe. Specs are a little confusing since call time is 6-8 hours but play time is 15 hours? Never seen the play time be double the call time before. Not bad for $49 except only SBC and AAC.
https://www.aliexpress.com/store/pr...etooth-V5-0-Earphone/3900009_33011375464.html


----------



## chinmie

jant71 said:


> Any info on the new TFZ B.V2?? Not sure if it is correct at 15 hours play time. Does say 70+ hours play time and 5 full charges I believe. Specs are a little confusing since call time is 6-8 hours but play time is 15 hours? Never seen the play time be double the call time before. Not bad for $49 except only SBC and AAC.
> https://www.aliexpress.com/store/pr...etooth-V5-0-Earphone/3900009_33011375464.html



looks really interesting, i don't know if this is just a rebrand or TFZ original, but i did never seen this before.

aliexpress descriptions are always confusing, maybe they made it that way to evade dispute? it also says it uses full frequency moving iron that as far as i know is BAs, but the picture is dynamic drivers.
but for the price it looks great


----------



## howdy

Got my M2s today, put my favorite Spinfit tips on and gave them a whirl. They definitely have a lot of bass. My hype may have been a bit much but they don't sound as good as I was hoping but there not bad though. I really like how small they are and almost disappear in my ear.


----------



## DigDub

The creative outlier air arrived today. Comfortable in my ears. Luckily the one-size-fits-all ear gels fit my ears well. Initial impressions are they are mid-centric. No pairing issues so far.


----------



## mjb152

my anbes arrive Tuesday, can't wait.

Saw this in the meantime,  wonder what IP rating they had ?  https://www.asiaone.com/asia/man-taiwan-accidentally-swallows-earbuds-finds-music-emanating-stomach


----------



## korefuji

DigDub said:


> The creative outlier air arrived today. Comfortable in my ears. Luckily the one-size-fits-all ear gels fit my ears well. Initial impressions are they are mid-centric. No pairing issues so far.


Ooo nice presentation box could be better looks cheap. Do let us know how you get in with them. Also curious where you ordered from as I was under the impression they’re not out till May 8th?


----------



## DigDub

korefuji said:


> Ooo nice presentation box could be better looks cheap. Do let us know how you get in with them. Also curious where you ordered from as I was under the impression they’re not out till May 8th?


I'm liking them so far. I ordered from the Singapore website. I stay in Singapore, creative has been selling them here since April in limited quantities.


----------



## korefuji

DigDub said:


> I'm liking them so far. I ordered from the Singapore website. I stay in Singapore, creative has been selling them here since April in limited quantities.


Ah I see. Many thanks for clarifying


----------



## david8613

I am so upset today, my anbes 359 case is not charging for some reason. the lights on the case no longer light up when I plug them in. I contacted seller already. anyone else run into this problem?


----------



## BigZ12

david8613 said:


> I am so upset today, my anbes 359 case is not charging for some reason. the lights on the case no longer light up when I plug them in. I contacted seller already. anyone else run into this problem?


And you're certain that you put them in the right position? They fit in both places/sides, but charge only in one...


----------



## clerkpalmer

Initial impressions of Advanced Model X. 

_Fit  - _fit is great.  They are VERY low profile once in your ears.  They disappear with nothing sticking out.  Profile is similar to MW07 once in the ear but even smaller.
_SQ - Terrific.  _I wasn't sure what to expect.  Advanced has a good pedigree but at the $79.99 price point I was concerned that SQ wasn't a priority.  I was wrong.  These things hit hard and have a nice treble sparkle.  Definitely a v-shaped fun signature - these are ideal gym buds.  What sticks out the most is that there is noticeable sub bass impact without any muddiness that I have heard in other TW headphones.  Advanced did a nice job and I'm sold that the graphene drivers make a difference.  They remind me of Sony SP700n but with less bass muddiness and a little warmer sound signature.  That's a complement because I enjoy the Sony.  These punch above their price point.  Better than Jabra, as good as Bose and Sony (maybe better than both), not quite there with Nuarl, Senn or MTW but at 1/3 to 1/4 of the price I have zero complaints.  
_The Rest._ Charging case is fine.  It feels cheap but at least it's very small.   Connected quickly to my iphone.  Stability shouldn't be an issue since these use BT5.0

Overall, I highly recommend these for $79.99.  They are a steal.  I have not heard any other cheap versions so I can't offer a direct comparison but I would be surprised if these did not outperform the chi-fi models at least for pure SQ.  I did some reading on Indiegogo and people were complaining of harsh treble and hiss.  I have not noticed either on mine.


----------



## korefuji

clerkpalmer said:


> Initial impressions of Advanced Model X.
> 
> _Fit  - _fit is great.  They are VERY low profile once in your ears.  They disappear with nothing sticking out.  Profile is similar to MW07 once in the ear but even smaller.
> _SQ - Terrific.  _I wasn't sure what to expect.  Advanced has a good pedigree but at the $79.99 price point I was concerned that SQ wasn't a priority.  I was wrong.  These things hit hard and have a nice treble sparkle.  Definitely a v-shaped fun signature - these are ideal gym buds.  What sticks out the most is that there is noticeable sub bass impact without any muddiness that I have heard in other TW headphones.  Advanced did a nice job and I'm sold that the graphene drivers make a difference.  They remind me of Sony SP700n but with less bass muddiness and a little warmer sound signature.  That's a complement because I enjoy the Sony.  These punch above their price point.  Better than Jabra, as good as Bose and Sony (maybe better than both), not quite there with Nuarl, Senn or MTW but at 1/3 to 1/4 of the price I have zero complaints.
> ...



Thanks for the review. I wasn't aware they were an indiegogo production, so that might put me off somewhat. It' spossible the pair you received are of a different batch, whereas the indiegogo ones were first batch, and thus prone to fault?


----------



## clerkpalmer

korefuji said:


> Thanks for the review. I wasn't aware they were an indiegogo production, so that might put me off somewhat. It' spossible the pair you received are of a different batch, whereas the indiegogo ones were first batch, and thus prone to fault?


Advanced is a well known existing company. This isn’t an indiegogo start up. They often use indie to fund projects. I expect that you will get excellent customer service from them. They aren’t going anywhere. I was one of the first backers so I’m sure I got the first batch.


----------



## korefuji (Apr 30, 2019)

clerkpalmer said:


> Advanced is a well known existing company. This isn’t an indiegogo start up. They often use indie to fund projects. I expect that you will get excellent customer service from them. They aren’t going anywhere. I was one of the first backers so I’m sure I got the first batch.



Thanks for the additional information, I would consider them if I didn't order the Creative's, still I may look at it again if the Creative's don't fit the bill. Thanks

OH I wonder can you tell me if the foam tips included are comply or proprietary as they seem similar in size and shape to the creative outlier air, and I wonder if I could get similar foam tips for the creative


----------



## david8613

BigZ12 said:


> And you're certain that you put them in the right position? They fit in both places/sides, but charge only in one...



yes, it looks like the case is not charging no longer lights up when I plug them in, and now I see only one ear bud is turning on, and even though its on it doesn't want to connect anymore. I'm sad...


----------



## BigZ12

clerkpalmer said:


> Initial impressions of Advanced Model X.
> 
> _Fit  - _fit is great.  They are VERY low profile once in your ears.  They disappear with nothing sticking out.  Profile is similar to MW07 once in the ear but even smaller.
> _SQ - Terrific.  _I wasn't sure what to expect.  Advanced has a good pedigree but at the $79.99 price point I was concerned that SQ wasn't a priority.  I was wrong.  These things hit hard and have a nice treble sparkle.  Definitely a v-shaped fun signature - these are ideal gym buds.  What sticks out the most is that there is noticeable sub bass impact without any muddiness that I have heard in other TW headphones.  Advanced did a nice job and I'm sold that the graphene drivers make a difference.  They remind me of Sony SP700n but with less bass muddiness and a little warmer sound signature.  That's a complement because I enjoy the Sony.  These punch above their price point.  Better than Jabra, as good as Bose and Sony (maybe better than both), not quite there with Nuarl, Senn or MTW but at 1/3 to 1/4 of the price I have zero complaints.
> ...


No info on AAC or AptX? I feel many manufacturers don't think it's important for the consumer to know what codec their products support.... I find this really annoying, cause buying a BT headset with just SBC is out of the question.


----------



## BigZ12

david8613 said:


> yes, it looks like the case is not charging no longer lights up when I plug them in, and now I see only one ear bud is turning on, and even though its on it doesn't want to connect anymore. I'm sad...


That's too bad  
I love my Anbes, and would be sad too if they stopped working.


----------



## korefuji

BigZ12 said:


> No info on AAC or AptX? I feel many manufacturers don't think it's important for the consumer to know what codec their products support.... I find this really annoying, cause buying a BT headset with just SBC is out of the question.



According to the indiegogo: Supported Codec: AAC-LC / AAC / SBC


----------



## clerkpalmer (Apr 30, 2019)

BigZ12 said:


> No info on AAC or AptX? I feel many manufacturers don't think it's important for the consumer to know what codec their products support.... I find this really annoying, cause buying a BT headset with just SBC is out of the question.


I feel like I investigated this when I bought and at least have Aptx and AAC.  Will see what I can find.  Edit.  You beat me to it.  I'm using an iphone so should be AAC.  As far as aptx v aac, jury's out on that one.


----------



## david8613

I tried the reset procedure and it did not work...


----------



## david8613

I figured it out, it was the usb c cable I was using, for some reason it was not charging so I tried another brand cable and it worked!


----------



## BobJS

clerkpalmer said:


> Initial impressions of Advanced Model X.
> 
> _Fit  - _fit is great.  They are VERY low profile once in your ears.  They disappear with nothing sticking out.  Profile is similar to MW07 once in the ear but even smaller.
> _SQ - Terrific.  _I wasn't sure what to expect.  Advanced has a good pedigree but at the $79.99 price point I was concerned that SQ wasn't a priority.  I was wrong.  These things hit hard and have a nice treble sparkle.  Definitely a v-shaped fun signature - these are ideal gym buds.  What sticks out the most is that there is noticeable sub bass impact without any muddiness that I have heard in other TW headphones.  Advanced did a nice job and I'm sold that the graphene drivers make a difference.  They remind me of Sony SP700n but with less bass muddiness and a little warmer sound signature.  That's a complement because I enjoy the Sony.  These punch above their price point.  Better than Jabra, as good as Bose and Sony (maybe better than both), not quite there with Nuarl, Senn or MTW but at 1/3 to 1/4 of the price I have zero complaints.
> ...



That's good to know.  I couldn't come close to getting a seal with the tiny tips they included so all I heard was tinny crap.  I'll try to do some tip rolling tonight, and then probably wrestle with the issue of having them not fit back into the charging case.


----------



## korefuji

david8613 said:


> I figured it out, it was the usb c cable I was using, for some reason it was not charging so I tried another brand cable and it worked!


You seem to own a pair of Bluetooth ear buds/headphones for each month of the year crikey


----------



## b2sql

BigZ12 said:


> No info on AAC or AptX? I feel many manufacturers don't think it's important for the consumer to know what codec their products support.... I find this really annoying, cause buying a BT headset with just SBC is out of the question.



Supported Codec: AAC-LC / AAC / SBC
True Wireless Stereo Bluetooth

Info from Indiegogo.

https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/model-x-true-wireless-the-best-sound-earbuds#/


----------



## Slater

david8613 said:


> yes, it looks like the case is not charging no longer lights up when I plug them in, and now I see only one ear bud is turning on, and even though its on it doesn't want to connect anymore. I'm sad...



Check for pocket lint in the charging port.

Maybe blow it out with some canned air or gently clean any lint out with a toothpick.

Or you can try a different charger cable.


----------



## Tranman409

Got my Anbes 359 yesterday. Been trying to resync it about 6 times and never got a good audio/video sync. Bass is good, not muddled for me. Could


DigDub said:


> The creative outlier air arrived today. Comfortable in my ears. Luckily the one-size-fits-all ear gels fit my ears well. Initial impressions are they are mid-centric. No pairing issues so far.



Hi. Do they connect independently to the phone so you can use either side for listening. Sometimes I prefer to use one ear for work and it would get annoying on my jabra elite when I could only use the right side and runs out of battery. I got the mavin air-x recently and love it. I'm just going on a binge purchases of TWS lol


----------



## korefuji

Tranman409 said:


> Got my Anbes 359 yesterday. Been trying to resync it about 6 times and never got a good audio/video sync. Bass is good, not muddled for me. Could
> 
> 
> Hi. Do they connect independently to the phone so you can use either side for listening. Sometimes I prefer to use one ear for work and it would get annoying on my jabra elite when I could only use the right side and runs out of battery. I got the mavin air-x recently and love it. I'm just going on a binge purchases of TWS lol




Based on the website info you can keep one in the case and one in your ear and they work that way too. I did read a blogger review where they say it doesn’t lag in video except with YouTube but that maybe more to do with the poorly designed YouTube app. Netflix etc seems to work fine with the creative outlier air


----------



## Tranman409

korefuji said:


> Based on the website info you can keep one in the case and one in your ear and they work that way too. I did read a blogger review where they say it doesn’t lag in video except with YouTube but that maybe more to do with the poorly designed YouTube app. Netflix etc seems to work fine with the creative outlier air



Thanks, I missed that detail when looking at the site!


----------



## actorlife

Tip comparison guide:


----------



## clerkpalmer

Btw, advanced model x takes phone calls in both ears.


----------



## mikp

actorlife said:


> Tip comparison guide:




or spinfit 155 with foam


----------



## korefuji

mikp said:


> or spinfit 155 with foam


I wonder if I can do something similar with the creative tips. Where does one purchase the appropriate foam from though?


----------



## mikp

korefuji said:


> I wonder if I can do something similar with the creative tips. Where does one purchase the appropriate foam from though?



I just grabbed a handful of 3m ear plugs from my local tyre shop.


----------



## DigDub

Tranman409 said:


> Got my Anbes 359 yesterday. Been trying to resync it about 6 times and never got a good audio/video sync. Bass is good, not muddled for me. Could
> 
> 
> Hi. Do they connect independently to the phone so you can use either side for listening. Sometimes I prefer to use one ear for work and it would get annoying on my jabra elite when I could only use the right side and runs out of battery. I got the mavin air-x recently and love it. I'm just going on a binge purchases of TWS lol


Yes, you can put one of the earbuds into the case and use only one like a mono headset.


----------



## actorlife

*I wanna try the* 
*Acoustune AET07 Eartip*
*Anyone here have them? Seems to be my kind of sig with sparkly treble, tight bass and big soundstage. *


----------



## d3myz

BigZ12 said:


> No info on AAC or AptX? I feel many manufacturers don't think it's important for the consumer to know what codec their products support.... I find this really annoying, cause buying a BT headset with just SBC is out of the question.


 Here are the Model X's specs from Indiegogo

Sound
Driver Diaphragm: Graphene
Driver Unit: 10mm Custom-Tuned Dynamic Transducer
Frequency Response: 20Hz - 20kHz
Impedance: 32 Ohms
Sensitivity: 90dB @ 1kHz
Proprietary Digital Signal Processing (DSP)
High-Fidelity Sound
Passive Noise Isolation up to 20dB

Connections
Bluetooth Version: 5.0
Bluetooth Protocol: HFP 1.7 / HSP 1.2 / A2DP 1.3 / AVRCP 1.6 / SPP1.2 / PBAP 1.0
Supported Codec: AAC-LC / AAC / SBC
True Wireless Stereo Bluetooth

User-Interface
Capacitive Touch Gesture Control
Supports Volume Control, Music Playback, Answer / End Call, Control Voice Assistant (Siri / Google Assistant)
IPX5 Sweatproof

Microphones
cVc Noise Cancellation for Clear Call
Dual Omni-Directional Microphones

Battery and Power
Model X with Charging Case: Up to 25 Hours Listening Time
Model X (single charge): Up to 5 Hours Listening Time @ 70% Volume


----------



## hifi80sman

Slater said:


> I guess I’m not getting a good seal then, because I don’t get thump when jogging. Or maybe it’s the physical way I’m running (like my stride or not coming down on my feet hard). In any case, I’m glad I don’t get a thump with every step - that would be very annoying.
> 
> I do get wind noise when cycling (on a closed trail), which is annoying enough.


It's because you run with the stride of a Gazelle.  

The SoundSport Free and perfect for running, as I can easily stay aware real-time vs. exterior ambient mics, and they flat out stay in place, even during elite ninja moves.  For active, physical exercising, Bose are my top choice.  Even those I have that fit well, I still have to readjust every now and then to maintain optimum seal.


----------



## bubsdaddy

hifi80sman said:


> It's because you run with the stride of a Gazelle.
> 
> The SoundSport Free and perfect for running, as I can easily stay aware real-time vs. exterior ambient mics, and they flat out stay in place, even during elite ninja moves.  For active, physical exercising, Bose are my top choice.  Even those I have that fit well, I still have to readjust every now and then to maintain optimum seal.



Agreed. The Bose never need readjustment. I have experienced a few very brief dropouts while running.


----------



## DannyBai

I received the Model X last night also. Well worth the backed price. Sound is close to MTW’s. Touch controls work well and might even be better then the Senn’s in that regard. I still think the Tiso and Qcy’s are a nice bargain since they perform really well but the Model X are close to the high end level for much cheaper. I found the bass to be a little boomy and the highs slightly peaky last night but today they have settled in nicely to give an excellent sound.


----------



## FYLegend (Apr 30, 2019)

Any Samsung Note 9 Exynos users here who use AAC with their TWS? Trying to figure out whether Astrotec S60 simply doesn't work well with it using AAC, or if other BT4.2 TWS AAC earbuds cut out the same way. The Jabra 65t is quite reliable but occasionally cuts out in a similar manner when going underground or walking around - the hear around function cuts out a lot though.

Looking for something with USB type C charging, wireless charging would be nice as well. I tried Galaxy Buds briefly and though they sounded good but were tuned lean and bright. Looking for something more mid- and bassy.


----------



## hifi80sman

FYLegend said:


> Any Samsung Note 9 Exynos users here who use AAC with their TWS? Trying to figure out whether Astrotec S60 simply doesn't work well with it using AAC, or if other BT4.2 TWS AAC earbuds cut out the same way. The Jabra 65t is quite reliable but occasionally cuts out in a similar manner when going underground or walking around - the hear around function cuts out a lot though.
> 
> Looking for something with USB type C charging, wireless charging would be nice as well. I tried Galaxy Buds briefly and though they sounded good but were tuned lean and bright. Looking for something more mid- and bassy.


Sounds like you're looking for the Sennheiser Momentum True Wireless.


----------



## korefuji

DigDub said:


> Yes, you can put one of the earbuds into the case and use only one like a mono headset.


@DigDub Any further impression on your part with the Creative Outlier Air? Trying to decide if I should stick, or twist for the Model X


----------



## FYLegend

hifi80sman said:


> Sounds like you're looking for the Sennheiser Momentum True Wireless.


Everything but the price point. Looking for something around 100$ CAD.


----------



## korefuji

FYLegend said:


> Everything but the price point. Looking for something around 100$ CAD.


Creative Outlier Air?

Usb-c charging, 10 hours battery life, aac/aptx, ipx5 - not too sure how they sound only going by reviews. @DigDub has a pair, said they're mid centric


----------



## hifi80sman (Apr 30, 2019)

korefuji said:


> Creative Outlier Air?
> 
> Usb-c charging, 10 hours battery life, aac/aptx, ipx5 - not too sure how they sound only going by reviews. @DigDub has a pair, said they're mid centric


Based on the measurements, they may meet your expectations.  I too have never heard them, but SoundGuys likes them.  Take that with a grain of salt, however, since they seem to like a lot of stuff (they probably get for free).

If you can do without AAC, I actually rather enjoyed the JBuds Air True Wireless for $49 USD.  I would definitely recommend those as a non-Chi-Fi sub-$50 pair.  They also have Class 1 BT 5.0, so distance is no problem.


----------



## tlau1125 (Apr 30, 2019)

OhSoSWIL said:


> Any good tip recommendations? I've seen the Comply's mentioned in this thread but would love to see some other favourites here.
> 
> Just got my QCY T1's and do have to say I'm really impressed by the sound of these bad boys. From a straight SQ perspective, I enjoy them over my Jabra 65t's; just wish they were louder. Jabra's are a much brighter/energetic sound (which I prefer when I'm at the gym) but the QCYs sound stage and bass are amazing. Waiting for my Anbes' in the mail to compare further!
> 
> Thanks for all the great insight from everyone sharing in the thread!



I too just got my QCY T1C yesterday.  For the price they sound very surprisingly good.  I haven't compared them directly (and probably won't) to my other wired or wireless headphones and earphones, but I can sense that these are less detailed, a bit loose in the bass and lack a bit of sparkle.  However, the freedom provided by true wireless earbuds cannot be matched.

The medium tips that come with them is a slightly loose but kind of work for me.  The Sony medium tips seem to seal better but I'll have to wear for a longer period to confirm.

Battery life seems good so far, but I listen at low volume.

Do any T1C owners use its microphone?  I found that Siri cannot pick up my voice adequately to understand my command, even in a quiet environment.  I either have to take the right bud off and speak directly to the mic, or leave it on but cup my right hand over the bud as a sound reflector for the mic to pick up my command. Granted I didn't speak loudly but still.  The quality of sound recording made through this mic is pretty bad.  Do you have the same experience?


----------



## DigDub

korefuji said:


> @DigDub Any further impression on your part with the Creative Outlier Air? Trying to decide if I should stick, or twist for the Model X


Like it so far. Very long battery life, I'd reckon it will last for at least 8 hours on a single charge. Comfort is excellent, no hotspot pain on my ear anywhere. The profile is low and does not stick out much when in ear, I'd say the shape and fit is similar to the MTW. Connection is ok, about same as my Galaxy buds. The buttons are a tad hard to press, as the clicky part is underneath a solid piece of plastic instead of an actual moving button. The lights do not light up when there is music playing. They do light up when nothing is playing and the lights are pretty when they do light up in blue/red.

The sound is mid centric with a warm mid bass. Wide left-right soundstage. Front-back soundstage not so much. Highs are present and defined, but does not dominate due to the prominent mids. No sibilance as far as I can tell. On my pixel 3 phone, it defaults to aptx.


----------



## actorlife

Lightning deal 6-8hr battery:
TRANYA Bluetooth 5.0 Deep Bass True Wireless Headphones, T2 Sports Wireless Earbuds, 40 Hours Playtime, IPX 5 Sweat Proof Earphones, Gift Box https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07KW1ZPVM/ref=cm_sw_r_sms_apa_i_pUoYCb6VEBWA0


----------



## Soreniglio

I just bought the Creative Outlier Air, will be in my hands in around 2 weeks.

This is the third batch, so hopefully there will be more polishing.


----------



## clerkpalmer

I used the model x for several hours today including a long bike ride. Really enjoying them. If you told me they cost 200, I wouldn’t be surprised. The sound quality is way up there. The base can boom a bit but it doesn’t get muddy. In some ways, I prefer them to the mtw. They have more energy and are more dynamic. Less clarity for sure and less “audiophile”. They remind me of the Bose but without the leakage. Fun is the right description. I did notice some fussiness connecting to my phone that I need to investigate. That shouldn’t happen in 2019. Minor complaint at this point.


----------



## korefuji

DigDub said:


> Like it so far. Very long battery life, I'd reckon it will last for at least 8 hours on a single charge. Comfort is excellent, no hotspot pain on my ear anywhere. The profile is low and does not stick out much when in ear, I'd say the shape and fit is similar to the MTW. Connection is ok, about same as my Galaxy buds. The buttons are a tad hard to press, as the clicky part is underneath a solid piece of plastic instead of an actual moving button. The lights do not light up when there is music playing. They do light up when nothing is playing and the lights are pretty when they do light up in blue/red.
> 
> The sound is mid centric with a warm mid bass. Wide left-right soundstage. Front-back soundstage not so much. Highs are present and defined, but does not dominate due to the prominent mids. No sibilance as far as I can tell. On my pixel 3 phone, it defaults to aptx.



thanks for the updated impressions


----------



## mikp

another apt-x tws 1More E1026BT-I  qcc3020, -no idea if it has volume control


----------



## cigarello

Anyone seen the TFZ X1? They look sick and quite cheap for what they are too!


----------



## DigDub

mikp said:


> another apt-x tws 1More E1026BT-I  qcc3020, -no idea if it has volume control


The specs sheet says it doesn't have volume control.


----------



## DigDub

cigarello said:


> Anyone seen the TFZ X1? They look sick and quite cheap for what they are too!


They are the same as mifo o5 professional.


----------



## david8613 (May 1, 2019)

d3myz said:


> Here are the Model X's specs from Indiegogo
> 
> Sound
> Driver Diaphragm: Graphene
> ...




these sound interesting, can you post picks of them? what do these cost US dollars? are they available in the USA?

keep those aptx models coming in definitely in the market for a set!!!


----------



## cigarello

DigDub said:


> They are the same as mifo o5 professional.



Is it true the standard is better than the professional? And do you think its a worthy upgrade over the lower priced TWS? Like QS1 and Anbes 359?


----------



## korefuji

david8613 said:


> these sound interesting, can you post picks of them? what do these cost US dollars? are they available in the USA?
> 
> keep those aptx models coming in definitely in the market for a set!!!


$79 from their website but it says they’re out of stock when I checked


----------



## RobinFood

APTx is getting cheaper and cheaper.

Here in Japan, Nuarl's main competition is Aviot for Japanese based TWEs. They have been pumping out quite a few sets in rapid succession lately and have something very interesting here...

https://www.e-earphone.jp/shopdetail/000000236358/

It is pretty cheap for having APTx, with a QCC3020 chip in them, a small case (other cases were all HUGE), and a waterproof rating of IPX7!!!
They also claim to have graphene coated drivers, a 10 hour battery on SBS/AAC (7-8 on APTx), and fast charge (10 minutes charge for 3 extra hours). No idea if quick charge on a 10 hour battery is practical...but it's in there.

There other products are said to have a close sound quality to the Nuarls, but more V shaped. Some people said the highs on other models were sometimes too piercing and sibilant. They also apparently have the hiss in their other models...but I don't know if this one is different.


----------



## DigDub

cigarello said:


> Is it true the standard is better than the professional? And do you think its a worthy upgrade over the lower priced TWS? Like QS1 and Anbes 359?


I have the Mifo o5 standard, which I read has better extension in the highs and lows as compared to he professional. It has a warm sound signature. What I do not like about it is that the buttons are tiny and hard to locate when they are in my ears, so there's a lot of fumbling around when trying to skip tracks, change volume, answer call  etc. And the light keeps blinking when in use.


----------



## Caipirina (May 1, 2019)

bubsdaddy said:


> I went for a run with the Anbes 359 this morning. I did 4 miles and was quite pleased with the fit - I sweat like crazy and they stayed in - and the connection didn't drop out at all. I normally run with Bose Soundsport Wireless or the Bose Soundsport Free and both of these exhibit a few "micro-dropouts" during a run.



I am usually using the Bose Soundsport Free as well as my main running buds, but I am always looking for cheap alternatives (I do have a version of the X12, but how anyone can keep them in their ears while running eludes me   love the earbud style and the sound stage that comes with it!)

I had not even heard about the Anbes 359 until like 1h ago (When looking for info on the Whizzer TWS) and now they are already in my shopping cart   Thanks for the runner specific encouragement!


----------



## Caipirina

silverfishla said:


> I just ordered the Whizzer TP1 TWS (sort of EarPod/iem style) ones.  I’ve got a pair of Whizzer Kylin (wired) that I love, so I’m blind buying this one.



Already looking fwd to your impressions ... in .. like 2 weeks maybe?  Tempted to also blindbuy them, instead I might hit 'buy' on the Andes 359 tonight ... and keep the Whizzers for later ... 

Someone mentioned TWEA?


----------



## bubsdaddy

Caipirina said:


> I am usually using the Bose Soundsport Free as well as my main running buds, but I am always looking for cheap alternatives (I do have a version of the X12, but how anyone can keep them in their ears while running eludes me   love the earbud style and the sound stage that comes with it!)
> 
> I had not even heard about the Anbes 359 until like 1h ago (When looking for info on the Whizzer TWS) and now they are already in my shopping cart   Thanks for the runner specific encouragement!



You are welcome. I went for a 3.1 mile run this morning and they performed well again. It was hot and humid and the wind was gusting but I had no fit issues, no dropouts, no wind noise and the sound was more than adequate. 

BTW, I never even tried them with the stock eartips. I installed the Auvio eartips right out of the box so that may be a contributing factor to how much I like them.  I just placed an order for a 2nd pair for my wife.


----------



## BigZ12

Wow, there's seems to be a lot of new and interesting TWSs coming our way. I'm quite sure I will buy the Creative Outlier Air, hopefully they will be available in Norway soon.


----------



## AtariPrime

BigZ12 said:


> Wow, there's seems to be a lot of new and interesting TWSs coming our way. I'm quite sure I will buy the Creative Outlier Air, hopefully they will be available in Norway soon.



I read a review of the Creative Outlier Air the other day, they commented that function and sound quality were great.  The only negatives were that they were a bit large, larger than they look in pictures.


----------



## AtariPrime (May 1, 2019)

Caipirina said:


> I am usually using the Bose Soundsport Free as well as my main running buds, but I am always looking for cheap alternatives (I do have a version of the X12, but how anyone can keep them in their ears while running eludes me   love the earbud style and the sound stage that comes with it!)
> 
> I had not even heard about the Anbes 359 until like 1h ago (When looking for info on the Whizzer TWS) and now they are already in my shopping cart   Thanks for the runner specific encouragement!



There are two major problems with the Bose Soundsport Free.  1) It is not a true IEM, it is actually on ear.  As a result, way to much noise from the outside world enters your ears.  2) They are huge, they stick out of your ears much further than other earbuds on the market.


----------



## bubsdaddy

AtariPrime said:


> There are two major problems with the Bose Soundsport Free.  1) It is not a true IEM, it is actual on ear.  As a result, way to much noise from the outside world enters your ears.  2) They are huge, they stick out of your ears much further than other earbuds on the market.



Agreed - but most runners prefer to be able to hear what's going on around them. And, I personally like the Frankenstein look.


----------



## clerkpalmer (May 1, 2019)

bubsdaddy said:


> Agreed - but most runners prefer to be able to hear what's going on around them. And, I personally like the Frankenstein look.



I repurchased the SS Free after giving up on them a while back.  I bought them because I wanted something to let some sound in while bike riding.  I agree that the SS Free is not ideal if you are looking for any type of isolation but I have found that even though SQ deteriorates as ambient sound increases, they still sound decent outdoors.  Biggest issue is you have to jack up the volume to compensate and it's probably not great long term versus an isolating IEM.  Kind of like airpods, I see enough SS Frees at the gym that I think people just accept the "look".  I get more strange looks with the MTW in my ears.  Wish they had skipped the silver and gone with all black.


----------



## AtariPrime

DigDub said:


> The specs sheet says it doesn't have volume control.



There are


clerkpalmer said:


> I repurchased the SS Free after giving up on them a while back.  I bought them because I wanted something to let some sound in while bike riding.  I agree that the SS Free is not ideal if you are looking for any type of isolation but I have found that even though SQ deteriorates as ambient sound increases, they still sound decent outdoors.  Biggest issue is you have to jack up the volume to compensate and it's probably not great long term versus an isolating IEM.  Kind of like airpods, I see enough SS Frees at the gym that I think people just accept the "look".  I get more strange looks with the MTW in my ears.  Wish they had skipped the silver and gone with all black.



I use my earbuds mostly at the gym.  And at the gym, no one ever enforces the rules, so you end up with lots of people talking on their phones.  Sound isolation is the only thing keeping me from throwing barbells at their head.


----------



## AtariPrime

What I'm waiting for is an earbud that is at least as small as the Galaxy Buds with 8-10 hours battery life.  Uses the fancy new chips that eliminate dropouts, and bass...I would like a TWS IEM with lots of bass.


----------



## Caipirina

AtariPrime said:


> There are two major problems with the Bose Soundsport Free.  1) It is not a true IEM, it is actually on ear.



Just curious if you would rate the AirPods or the X12 also as 'on ear', since they are rather earbud style than fully penetrating in-ear (on earbud forums I am being told the SS Free does NOT count as an earbud, but rather IEM) 

I think the fact that they are not fully jammed in gives them a nicer soundstage. 

Of course I wished that they came with Bose's fantastic ANC, one can only hope they figure that out soon.  I own both Sony models that claim to have ANC, and it is rather laughable ...


----------



## Caipirina

AtariPrime said:


> I use my earbuds mostly at the gym.  And at the gym, no one ever enforces the rules, so you end up with lots of people talking on their phones.  Sound isolation is the only thing keeping me from throwing barbells at their head.



That's exactly what I need ANC for! They won't shut up and then there is that nasty gym music! 

I tried (a long while ago) some over-ear headphones with ANC on treadmill ... my sweat killed it pretty quickly .. ( i think those were Beats   )


----------



## AtariPrime

Caipirina said:


> Just curious if you would rate the AirPods or the X12 also as 'on ear', since they are rather earbud style than fully penetrating in-ear (on earbud forums I am being told the SS Free does NOT count as an earbud, but rather IEM)
> 
> I think the fact that they are not fully jammed in gives them a nicer soundstage.
> 
> Of course I wished that they came with Bose's fantastic ANC, one can only hope they figure that out soon.  I own both Sony models that claim to have ANC, and it is rather laughable ...



Air Pods are definitely 'on ear'.  I haven't used the X12 so not sure on that one.  To be a true IEM, the earbud needs to extend into the ear canal and create a seal between the ear and the outside world.  To have the best soundstage, regardless of style a seal is required.  Think of it like your car, do you get better sound with the windows up or down.  The answer is up.  With all the windows closed you are helping the sound reverberate throughout the car.  This creates stronger bass and prevents other soundwaves from interfering with the music.  If you think of it like a water hose, having the windows up keeps all the water in the car.  If the windows are down, a lot of the sound leaks out, decibals are lost, and sounds from outside enter the vehicle essentially 'tainting' the music signature.  Earbuds/IEMs/Headphones are the same.  The best sound will always be obtained through isolation, but this may not be the best when walking down a street and you need to hear cars or trains passing by.


----------



## Arthur Li

Have any MW07 user experience driver flex when inserting the buds? Left side of mine starts to develop this issue after few days of use. Kinda worrying......


----------



## korefuji

@DigDub Any chance you could please measure the diameter of your earphone nozzle and let me know what size it is. I need it to send to INAIRS to see if they have matching ear tips


----------



## hifi80sman

Arthur Li said:


> Have any MW07 user experience driver flex when inserting the buds? Left side of mine starts to develop this issue after few days of use. Kinda worrying......


No, when I had the MW07, I never had any driver flex issues.  You may want to exchange.


----------



## clerkpalmer

hifi80sman said:


> No, when I had the MW07, I never had any driver flex issues.  You may want to exchange.



Me neither.  Exchange if you can.  If you can't, I wouldn't worry about it too much.  If you read up on driver flex, while annoying, can't say I've ever found anyone say it causes actual damage.


----------



## chinmie

AtariPrime said:


> The best sound will always be obtained through isolation



not really. the only reason for seal is to block outside noise from disturbing the original/intended sound like you pointed out, but about soundstage, in a dead/near silent environment, openback is better, because gathering information about space accurately not only using the inner eardrums, but also the overall ears (auricles and all). not to mention the vibrations you picked up from the head and body..

so if no noise present, i prefer open headphones/earphones all the way


----------



## Caipirina

AtariPrime said:


> To have the best soundstage, regardless of style a seal is required.  Think of it like your car, do you get better sound with the windows up or down.  The answer is up.  With all the windows closed you are helping the sound reverberate throughout the car.



This is kinda exactly how I feel about IEM vs Earbud (on ear)  and closed back vs open back. I really like your car allegory for that: When on highway, sure, I want max noise isolation, which I would get from well fitting IEMs ... but what if the car was parked in the middle of a concert hall? I would not only open the windows, but also take the roof off! This way the sound has more air to reverberate and creates (IMHO and I am no expert, very subjective perception) a bigger soundstage. 

And this is why it is nice to have many different earthingies that deliver music. 1) Adapt to whatever situation and 2) having an excuse why we have to order yet another pair of something


----------



## Caipirina

chinmie said:


> not really. the only reason for seal is to block outside noise from disturbing the original/intended sound like you pointed out, but about soundstage, in a dead/near silent environment, openback is better, because gathering information about space accurately not only using the inner eardrums, but also the overall ears (auricles and all). not to mention the vibrations you picked up from the head and body..
> 
> so if no noise present, i prefer open headphones/earphones all the way



Very well said!


----------



## DigDub

korefuji said:


> @DigDub Any chance you could please measure the diameter of your earphone nozzle and let me know what size it is. I need it to send to INAIRS to see if they have matching ear tips



Unfortunately I do not have any equipment to reliably measure the diameter of the nozzle. I do have the spinfit cp350 from the nuarl  nt01ax, and those are loose and will not stay on the outlier air.


----------



## korefuji

DigDub said:


> Unfortunately I do not have any equipment to reliably measure the diameter of the nozzle. I do have the spinfit cp350 from the nuarl  nt01ax, and those are loose and will not stay on the outlier air.


OK Thanks for trying anyway


----------



## AtariPrime

chinmie said:


> not really. the only reason for seal is to block outside noise from disturbing the original/intended sound like you pointed out, but about soundstage, in a dead/near silent environment, openback is better, because gathering information about space accurately not only using the inner eardrums, but also the overall ears (auricles and all). not to mention the vibrations you picked up from the head and body..
> 
> so if no noise present, i prefer open headphones/earphones all the way



Disagree. See all that about windows up v down. Not really debateable.


----------



## 40760

korefuji said:


> OK Thanks for trying anyway



4.8mm at the widest point of the nozzle.


----------



## chinmie

AtariPrime said:


> Disagree. See all that about windows up v down. Not really debateable.



if i parked my car in a really nice secluded place on a snowy valley that deaden any echoes, while the animals hybernating, i will open all my window and the roof also.


----------



## korefuji

palestofwhite said:


> 4.8mm at the widest point of the nozzle.


Cheers

@DigDub In case you want to try them, the spinfit team are releasing a new ear tip next week on Amazon US CP360 for the Creative Outlier Air



			
				SpinFit Team said:
			
		

> Thanks for contacting us!
> 
> Our recommendation for Creative Outlier Air is *CP360 *which is going to be available on Amazon USA next week!
> 
> ...


----------



## DigDub

korefuji said:


> Cheers
> 
> @DigDub In case you want to try them, the spinfit team are releasing a new ear tip next week on Amazon US CP360 for the Creative Outlier Air


Thanks. I'm happy with the provided tips that came with the outlier air.


----------



## 40760 (May 2, 2019)

DigDub said:


> Thanks. I'm happy with the provided tips that came with the outlier air.



Have to agree with you that the stock tips are great. Even more comfortable than the Spinfit CP350 that came with the NT01AX.

The overall fit of the NT01AX is better for me though. But isolation on the Outlier Air is better.


----------



## marcus2704

I have just received M&D MW07 and so far am a bit on the fence with them. I tried the B&O E8 (3 pairs, all had differing faults and were returned) and the Sennheiser TW (could not get on with the fit), and now am onto these.  I do like the fin, whereas the Sennheiser's always felt like they would pop out of my ears at any time these feel pretty secure.  Initially I found the level of bass to be a little underwhelming and the treble a tad harsh, this is paired with a Samsung S8.  I have a variety of tips, and am using Spinfits  I tend to feel that a fit has to be tight to the ear in order to get good isolation and wonder if it my perception of what is a good fit that is mistaken.  Concerned there appears to be no firmware update for the MW07s.


----------



## chinmie

palestofwhite said:


> Have to agree with you that the stock tips are great. Even more comfortable than the Spinfit CP350 that came with the NT01AX.
> 
> The overall fit of the NT01AX is better for me though. But isolation on the Outlier Air is better.



sorry if you have mentioned it already, but would you mind sharing your review between the Nuarl Nt01ax and the Creative outlier? i have heard my friend's NT01AX, and was wondering how the Outlier compares


----------



## albau

marcus2704 said:


> I have just received M&D MW07 and so far am a bit on the fence with them. I tried the B&O E8 (3 pairs, all had differing faults and were returned) and the Sennheiser TW (could not get on with the fit), and now am onto these.  I do like the fin, whereas the Sennheiser's always felt like they would pop out of my ears at any time these feel pretty secure.  Initially I found the level of bass to be a little underwhelming and the treble a tad harsh, this is paired with a Samsung S8.  I have a variety of tips, and am using Spinfits  I tend to feel that a fit has to be tight to the ear in order to get good isolation and wonder if it my perception of what is a good fit that is mistaken.  Concerned there appears to be no firmware update for the MW07s.


All points out that you don’t have a proper seal. I use mine with Spinfit CP-100Z-L and with large fin and get plenty of bass with detailed and full overall sound and huge, by closed back IEM standards, soundstage. Of course your mileage may vary due to different ear size and geometry. Believe me, when you’ll achieve proper fit your concerns about non-upgradeable firmware will totally fade away. I don’t even feel the need to EQ my MW07 because they sound so good on flat. And, yes, I used them with S8 and now with S9+.


----------



## marcus2704 (May 2, 2019)

albau said:


> All points out that you don’t have a proper seal. I use mine with Spinfit CP-100Z-L and with large fin and get plenty of bass with detailed and full overall sound and huge, by closed back IEM standards, soundstage. Of course your mileage may vary due to different ear size and geometry. Believe me, when you’ll achieve proper fit your concerns about non-upgradeable firmware will totally fade away. I don’t even feel the need to EQ my MW07 because they sound so good on flat. And, yes, I used them with S8 and now with S9+.



I am certain you are right about this.  I have Spinfit CP-100Z-M and S but not L, typically I have never used L sized tips.  I also have Symbio W tips in S.  

I have a pair of Sony XBA-N3's, and the fit on these with Spinfits is great, I attribute that to the N3s having a longer 'stem' than the MW07s which means they go further into the ear canal.  Would you say a 'good fit' is a tip that feels tight to the ear-canal?


----------



## 40760 (May 2, 2019)

chinmie said:


> sorry if you have mentioned it already, but would you mind sharing your review between the Nuarl Nt01ax and the Creative outlier? i have heard my friend's NT01AX, and was wondering how the Outlier compares



*Nuarl NT01AX (MT3)*
+ Clear and natural sounding
+ 7+ hours playtime on APTX
+ Includes Spinfit CP350 of all sizes
+ Stable connection
- Isolation is decent
- Spring loaded charging mechanism
- Micro USB charging instead of USB C

*Creative Outlier Air (2nd Batch)*
+ Sound is warm
+ Same playtime as NT01AX
+ Stable connection
+ Solid metal charging case
+ Magnetic tray loading charging mechanism
+ USB C charging
- Default volume is somehow lower than NT01AX
- Only 2 pairs of stock tips of same size
- Charging can be finicky

Sound wise I like the NT01AX better and with the CP350 tips they are more comfortable for my ears.
But for sports, the Outlier does fit tighter and isolates better but I get sores from prolong use.


----------



## Slater (May 2, 2019)

DigDub said:


> Unfortunately I do not have any equipment to reliably measure the diameter of the nozzle. I do have the spinfit cp350 from the nuarl  nt01ax, and those are loose and will not stay on the outlier air.



In the absence of a tool to accurately measure with, you can always use some new coins to measure things.

So for example “exactly 1 brand new US penny plus 1 brand new US nickel stacked together”. That’s able to be easily replicated by others.

Even if the currency isn’t the same in your country, the thickness of new coins is published on the Internet.

So from my theoretical example, the nozzle would be (3.0mm).


----------



## 40760

Slater said:


> In the absence of a tool to accurately measure with, you can always use some new coins to measure things.
> 
> So for example “exactly 1 brand new US penny plus 1 brand new US nickel stacked together”. That’s able to be easily replicated by others.
> 
> ...



It's 4.8mm at the widest point of the nozzle. I measured them myself with a pair of digital callipers.


----------



## Morbeas

Outlier Air review: https://the-gadgeteer.com/2019/05/02/creative-outlier-air-true-wireless-sweatproof-earbuds-review/


----------



## AtariPrime

albau said:


> All points out that you don’t have a proper seal. I use mine with Spinfit CP-100Z-L and with large fin and get plenty of bass with detailed and full overall sound and huge, by closed back IEM standards, soundstage. Of course your mileage may vary due to different ear size and geometry. Believe me, when you’ll achieve proper fit your concerns about non-upgradeable firmware will totally fade away. I don’t even feel the need to EQ my MW07 because they sound so good on flat. And, yes, I used them with S8 and now with S9+.



I read in a review recently that due to different codecs, many wireless earbuds don't sound as good in an iPhone as an Android.  Does anyone have an opinion on whether this is true?


----------



## AtariPrime

Morbeas said:


> Outlier Air review: https://the-gadgeteer.com/2019/05/02/creative-outlier-air-true-wireless-sweatproof-earbuds-review/



Very tempted by the Outlier Airs, they are getting a lot of positive reviews.  My only concern is that they are apparently on the larger side.


----------



## cityle

marcus2704 said:


> I tend to feel that a fit has to be tight to the ear in order to get good isolation and wonder if it my perception of what is a good fit that is mistaken.


No I would say you're right in your perception. Having tried the Sony WF1000x, WFSP700N, the B&O E8 and now the Audio-Technica ATH-CKR7TW, I find that I have issues in getting a good seal with them. I think due to the nature of truly wireless earbuds, the shape of our ears become more important. Like right now with the ATH-CKR7TW, they are highly dependent on having a good seal to sound good, which requires me to use the 3D loops which creates a tight fit. But then with the shape of my ears, any wings begin to hurt me after 30 min, hence why I'm trying to sell them now.


----------



## Slater (May 2, 2019)

AtariPrime said:


> I read in a review recently that due to different codecs, many wireless earbuds don't sound as good in an iPhone as an Android.  Does anyone have an opinion on whether this is true?



That sounds like some fanboy theory.

The TW buds I have use AAC for Apple and SBC for Android. So in that case, it will sound noticeably worse on Android.

Without reading the article, I speculate that the person was referring to an earphone that had aptX for Android devices, and nothing specific for Apple. Which in that case, would mean SBC for Apple, which would sound noticeably worse vs aptX for that particular earphone.

It all depends on what specific device and what specific earphone you’re talking about.

I mean, even “Android” is general. There’s plenty of Android phones that handle audio well, and plenty more that are pieces of junk. The physical hardware underneath, Android version, codecs, code, antenna design, etc all play a role. The same with specific earphones.

Bottom line is that’s too generic of a statement. It would be like me saying “Toyota is better than Honda”. What specific Toyota? What specific Honda? Better at what? What year model?


----------



## AtariPrime

Slater said:


> That sounds like some fanboy theory.
> 
> The TW buds I have use AAC for Apple and SBC for Android. So in that case, it will sound noticeably worse on Android.
> 
> ...



The review did focus on AptX as part of the problem.  As best I recall, they argued that AptX is the best way to listen to music at present and is not available on iPhone therefore the sound quality would always been inferior to what it could be.


----------



## albau (May 2, 2019)

AtariPrime said:


> I read in a review recently that due to different codecs, many wireless earbuds don't sound as good in an iPhone as an Android.  Does anyone have an opinion on whether this is true?


Guys, don't get hooked on codecs, unless it’s SBC only. Difference between AAC (Apple) and AptX (Qualcomm) is debatable and is barely audible. All recent versions of Android implement AAC. That’s why majority of modern TWS support AAC, even cheap Chi-Fi ones. Quality of source recording and, even more, acoustic design of the buds and the driver they use, is much more important than AAC vs AptX.


----------



## albau

cityle said:


> I think due to the nature of truly wireless earbuds, the shape of our ears become more important.


Fit and seal has and had exactly same high importance as with wired IEMs. Don’t see why lack of wires that tug down on earbuds and suffer from phonics demands more from our ears.


----------



## hifi80sman

Slater said:


> In the absence of a tool to accurately measure with, you can always use some new coins to measure things.
> 
> So for example “exactly 1 brand new US penny plus 1 brand new US nickel stacked together”. That’s able to be easily replicated by others.
> 
> ...


Sounds like Slater is a PE.


----------



## cityle

albau said:


> Fit and seal has and had exactly same high importance as with wired IEMs. Don’t see why lack of wires that tug down on earbuds and suffer from phonics demands more from our ears.


I loop every cable with wired IEMs over my ears, so there is not that tug versus truly wireless earbuds where there is often the need for wings to act the same way.


----------



## hifi80sman

AtariPrime said:


> The review did focus on AptX as part of the problem.  As best I recall, they argued that AptX is the best way to listen to music at present and is not available on iPhone therefore the sound quality would always been inferior to what it could be.


It's hard to make as a general statement, since there are so many variables involved.  There are a lot of cheap Chi-Fi wireless headphones with aptX that sound like someone stuck a pillow over the drivers.  Acoustic design (I'm partial to metal housing) and driver quality are far more important than codec.  Listing "stats" is certainly a marketing strategy, so as a consumer, it's important to compare apples to apples.  Same HQ source and same HQ equipment, yes, you're going to bet better performance from aptX over SBC, which is going to be noticeably audible.  aptX vs. AAC is more of a tossup and widely debated, as something encoded using AAC may sound better transmitted over AAC vs. aptX (all else being equal).


----------



## AtariPrime

cityle said:


> I loop every cable with wired IEMs over my ears, so there is not that tug versus truly wireless earbuds where there is often the need for wings to act the same way.



Except that there is something touching your ears, and that's annoying.  Just say no to earhooks.


----------



## FYLegend

albau said:


> Guys, don't get hooked on codecs, unless it’s SBC only. Difference between AAC (Apple) and AptX (Qualcomm) is debatable and is barely audible. All recent versions of Android implement AAC. That’s why majority of modern TWS support AAC, even cheap Chi-Fi ones. Quality of source recording and, even more, acoustic design of the buds and the driver they use, is much more important than AAC vs AptX.


The problem for me isn't so much the quality as much as the connection reliability which is related to which codec is used as well as Bluetooth version. Astrotec S60 is Bluetooth 4.2 uses AAC and stutters every 6 or so minutes on my Exynos Note 9 [I understand they released a 5.0 version recently]. I'm really left using only SBC with these if I want to listen longer sessions (it's pretty decent except some rattling that gets worse at higher volumes). I can hear the potential of their Knowles BA driver, but I feel like the codec and connection quality compromises it. Jabra Elite 65t (BT5.0 + AAC) has very reliable connection and far less latency, but will still stutter under very rare occasions. It's also downright bulky with poor isolation. Both of these exhibit imbalanced hissing and one driver being more distorted than the other, but the Jabra is worse in this regard. I'm not sure how common this issue is with all TWS.

Maybe it's just my phone, but I suspect Android (or just Samsung) is still not well-optimized for AAC. Samsung also doesn't support AptX HD/LL/Adaptive in their phones thus far.

There's also the fact that Windows laptops don't support AAC but support AptX. That said, my Jabra 65t doesn't sound much different through my BT5.0 laptop vs my phone.

I was hoping there would be a wider selection of good TWS when I visited Taiwan, but many of them seemed rather dated or otherwise knock-off (several brands use the same housing as the Astrotec S60). The Galaxy Buds were only launched towards the end of my trip and quite pricey (~161$ USD or 216$ CAD). For comparison the 65ts often go on sale for 180$ CAD and was 150$ on Boxing Day and Black Friday.


----------



## CocaCola15

Well, my experience with the Advance Model X is not quite the same as others. The packaged tips will not give me a seal, not even close. So the treble is ear shattering, without a seal. Went to the tip bin and due to the asymmetrical ear canals I happen to own, went with a spinfit in the left ear (medium) and a Sony hybrid in the right ear. Even with that, treble was a bit too hot so I EQ'd the treble down a very small amount and the lows up a similar tiny bit. Now, they sound fantastic. I own the MTW, which to me still rule the BT buds I own or have tried, but they should. I have the QCY T1s too, and they are great for $28, but a giveaway to a friend or relative.  I owned the Sony true wireless buds (WF1000x) and the Nuheara IQ buds, returned or sold them. Too many dropouts for me at the time (maybe firmware has fixed the Sonys by now) and the IQbuds were not as good as the Senns to my ears, so I let them go.

Now, the hassle factor is I must remove/replace the tips every time I want store the Model X in the case. Not horrible, but not great for using them on the road. However, they are keepers as I do like the sound, albeit with EQ using the KaiserTone app.

So I'll keep the Senns and the Model X, and that's enough true wireless kit for me. For now.


----------



## clerkpalmer

I’m bumping my sq rating on the model x. These things are really excellent.  For those on the fence, grab them. You won’t be disappointed. Also noticed tonight isolation Was excellent even with stock tips. Worked out with a giant fan in my face and didn’t need to bump the volume. Couldn’t even hear the hum.


----------



## clerkpalmer

Anyone ordering Powerbeats pro tomorrow? 250 is outrageous. I know I’ll be disappointed. Apple is counting on suckers like me to pay the Apple tax. So yes, I’m ordering.


----------



## fakcior

Is it worth upgrading from QCY T1C to Mifo O5?


----------



## chinmie

fakcior said:


> Is it worth upgrading from QCY T1C to Mifo O5?



sound-wise it is not an upgrade , more of a sidegrade with different sound. feature-wise, yes it is an upgrade (better build, better case, longer battery life, volume control, waterproofing)


----------



## BobJS

CocaCola15 said:


> Well, my experience with the Advance Model X is not quite the same as others. The packaged tips will not give me a seal, not even close. So the treble is ear shattering, without a seal. Went to the tip bin and due to the asymmetrical ear canals I happen to own, went with a spinfit in the left ear (medium) and a Sony hybrid in the right ear. Even with that, treble was a bit too hot so I EQ'd the treble down a very small amount and the lows up a similar tiny bit. Now, they sound fantastic. I own the MTW, which to me still rule the BT buds I own or have tried, but they should. I have the QCY T1s too, and they are great for $28, but a giveaway to a friend or relative.  I owned the Sony true wireless buds (WF1000x) and the Nuheara IQ buds, returned or sold them. Too many dropouts for me at the time (maybe firmware has fixed the Sonys by now) and the IQbuds were not as good as the Senns to my ears, so I let them go.
> 
> Now, the hassle factor is I must remove/replace the tips every time I want store the Model X in the case. Not horrible, but not great for using them on the road. However, they are keepers as I do like the sound, albeit with EQ using the KaiserTone app.
> 
> So I'll keep the Senns and the Model X, and that's enough true wireless kit for me. For now.



Exactly the situation I'm in.  Except I'm not that enamored with the final sound I'm getting as it's a bit bass _heavy_*.  *I also need different sized tips for each side.  At this point I've got so many of these TW products the Model X is simply not worth the hassle for me.  I envy the ear holes (pardon the technical term) of folks who can get a seal with the stock tips.


----------



## david8613

I just did a little experiment with the anbes 359, this headset is absolutely awesome! anyway I am always trying to improve sound so I decided to try some spinfit tips, and yes it made the bass much stronger but it took away that nice smooth mid and the sweet treble it became very harsh. I also noticed the spaciousness and separation of instruments is gone now, so I went back to stock tips, much better. I believe the next evolution in this hobby of ours is going to be the tech in the tips we use, because it really effects the sound so much using different tips. I have had cheap tips sound better than expensive tips with certain model tw in the past.


----------



## Slater

david8613 said:


> I just did a little experiment with the anbes 359, this headset is absolutely awesome! anyway I am always trying to improve sound so I decided to try some spinfit tips, and yes it made the bass much stronger but it took away that nice smooth mid and the sweet treble it became very harsh. I also noticed the spaciousness and separation of instruments is gone now, so I went back to stock tips, much better. I believe the next evolution in this hobby of ours is going to be the tech in the tips we use, because it really effects the sound so much using different tips. I have had cheap tips sound better than expensive tips with certain model tw in the past.



I’ve never really been a fan of SpinFits. Yes, they do solve fitment issues on some IEMs, which can be the only way to salvage some IEMs.

But I have never heard a case where they’ve changed the sound for the better. They have always made the sound worse in some way (for me anyways).


----------



## CocaCola15

I should have been more precise, I said they sound fantastic, but they sound pretty good, so after more listening I scaled down my enthusiasm. Not saying they are not worth it, if, and only if, you get a true seal with the stock tips. Otherwise, as BobJS says, they are not worth the hassle if you have true wireless in-ears that can use the stock tips so charging and storing don't become a pain. That's where I am at with the Model X. I decided they may have to to on the For Sale forum, at a very good price.


----------



## david8613 (May 3, 2019)

Slater said:


> I’ve never really been a fan of SpinFits. Yes, they do solve fitment issues on some IEMs, which can be the only way to salvage some IEMs.
> 
> But I have never heard a case where they’ve changed the sound for the better. They have always made the sound worse in some way (for me anyways).



I think you right! the first time I used spinfits with great success was with my Jabra elite sports, the stock tips were horrible! spinfits work very well with this model, perfect seal and improved sound. so I automatically thought the spinfits was the holy grail of tips, but I finding out this is not the case. I was running spinfits on my sennheiser mtw and I always thought bass was incredible but the highs and mids did not sound that great and felt it sounded closed in with not a lot of separation. the anbes 359 has a lot of nice treble and mids with lots of separation with stock tips. I started playing with the tips on these 2 models, when I put the stock anbes tips on my sennheiser tmw I noticed a huge bump in the treble but bass lowered. so I went into my bag of spare tips and put the Jabra 65t active tip on the sennheiser tmw and they opened up, still good bass, nicer mids and highs and sound stage is wider with better separation. I gotta still evaluate them with these tips, the Jabra 65t tips actually feel more comfortable than the spinfits. what other tips do your recommend, especially to use with sennheiser tmw? I feel like ordering some more tips to experiment. I would like to see the companies start experimenting with tube design I am seeing this tech in In ear monitors where they have separate tubes for bass, mids and highs.

btw I hate foam tips, to me they muddy bass, and screw up highs and mids. plus they fall apart and get nasty germ magnets. lol


----------



## TwilightAudio

What abt Raycon tho


----------



## 30Cal (May 3, 2019)

I love the ADV Model X so far.  They sych up easy, plug into my ear easy, and sound superb.


----------



## CocaCola15 (May 3, 2019)

Glad that's your experience. I don't hate them but the Senn MTW, to my humble ears, just are a much better option. They sound great (admit I do tweak them a tad via KaiserTone), they never disconnect/drop out, they stay put, the stock tips (medium) instantly fit both of my ears perfectly and the latest firmware fix took care of the strange battery charging issue with the case. So now I have a pair of Model X that will probably collect dust. I guess once the Indiegogo deliveries are final, I will sell them for a very good price. I'm just hooked on the Senns. My thought process was find a relative new TW IEM that costs less than the MTW and sell the latter. With all the emerging models, I figured it would happen. But so far, nothing is happening to convince me. I guess that's why so many differing views on so many fully wireless IEMs. I've gone through several pair of TW IEMs now (Sony MH1000X, Nuheara IQBuds, Jabra Elite. Optoma BeFree8), some not that cheap, and the Senns just knocked them all off. The Jabras were fine, but not quite the same SQ as the Senns. I'm sure there are people here who didn't care for the MTW, but different strokes.

My favorite BT IEM rig, however, for just sitting around listening (trains, buses, etc.) is my 11-year-old pair of customs (JH5) connected to the Radson EarStudio. Sweet. Just not practical for walking dogs, treadmills, etc.  And I'm also sold on the Sony WH1000XM3. So no, I am not an audiophile. But between the Senn MTW and the M3s, pretty happy listener. I think my quest for the Senn killer (within my very small sample size) is over.

Update ... Never one to give up, I found two silicone tips from my 20 dozen collected over the years that have larger sound tubes, bulby shaped, smaller one on the left, larger on the right.  Could be a solution, but the treble still hits a bit too hard for my tastes. Must be my old ears. Anyway, they do sound nice with a bit of bass boost. Still have the tip removal issue (when putting them in the case), but an improvement.

As for the stock tips, all I can say is when I push the Model X in with my fingers, I can hear how they good they can sound with those tips. But if I release the pressure, the horror ... the horror. They are really going to work for a minority of people, IMHO.


----------



## AtariPrime

I'm curious about the Advanced Model X.  The problem is that I have never heard of this company before.  Are there any reviews of the Model X available?  Especially from reputable sites such as wirecutter, gadgeteer, engadget, or Youtube personalities such as Jim's Review Room or similar?

On the surface the earbuds do not seem like anything special.  Below are a few specs.

Driver unit : 10mm graphene dynamic driver
Impedance : 32ohm+/-15%
Sensitivity : 90dB+/-3dB at 1kHz
Frequency response : 20Hz – 20kHz
Music time : Up to 25 hours (w/ case) / up to 5 hours (earphones only)
Charging time : 2 hours
BT version : 5.0
Connection distance : 10m (33ft)
Input port : MicroUSB
Battery : 400mAh (case) / 50mAh x 2 (earphones)

Do we know what chip they are using?  5 hours battery life is par for most of the TWS earbuds that have been on the market for more than a year, but most of the new ones are posting 8-10 hours life with the new Qualcomm chips.  Do we know what chip this one has?


----------



## albau (May 3, 2019)

AtariPrime said:


> I'm curious about the Advanced Model X.  The problem is that I have never heard of this company before.  Are there any reviews of the Model X available?  Especially from reputable sites such as wirecutter, gadgeteer, engadget, or Youtube personalities such as Jim's Review Room or similar?
> 
> On the surface the earbuds do not seem like anything special.  Below are a few specs.
> 
> ...


10mm graphene driver is nothing to be shy about and is definitely not the norm in the sea of 5-6mm units. Are “we” more interested in how the thing sounds or what chipset is uses? Latter doesn’t guarantee the former at all, you know. For example, arguably the best sounding TWS currently on the market, the Master & Dynamic MW07, uses the cheapest and the most primitive non-updateable QC chipset that still supports AAC/AptX and BT5. Instead they saved money and shell space on a custom beryllium 8mm driver and on a carefully designed acoustic space around it. As for reviews I will look for rtings.com on top of all others.


----------



## AtariPrime

albau said:


> 10mm graphene driver is nothing to be shy about and is definitely not the norm in the sea of 5-6mm units. Are “we” more interested in how the thing sounds or what chipset is uses? Latter doesn’t guarantee the former at all, you know. For example, arguably the best sounding TWS currently on the market, the Master & Dynamic MW07, uses the cheapest and the most primitive non-updateable QC chipset that still supports AAC/AptX and BT5. Instead they saved money and shell space on a custom beryllium 8mm driver and on a carefully designed acoustic space around it. As for reviews I will look for rtings.com on top of all others.



For me personally, size, connectivity, and battery life are just as important as the sound quality.  It could sound like Mozart with a violin standing next to me, but if it doesn't have at least 8 hours battery life, maybe it shouldn't exist.  If it has any dropouts, even rarely, maybe it shouldn't exist.  And if I look like Frankenstein walking around with corks sticking out of my ears, maybe it shouldn't exist.  A TWS earbud should be small, have great battery life and work 100% of the time, then it can have great sound.  If it can't do all those things, might as well get wired earbuds instead.


----------



## Coladdict

Planning on getting new eartips for T1C on Aliexpress / Ebay ... Which ones should I consider ... TIA


----------



## actorlife

david8613 said:


> I just did a little experiment with the anbes 359, this headset is absolutely awesome! anyway I am always trying to improve sound so I decided to try some spinfit tips, and yes it made the bass much stronger but it took away that nice smooth mid and the sweet treble it became very harsh. I also noticed the spaciousness and separation of instruments is gone now, so I went back to stock tips, much better. I believe the next evolution in this hobby of ours is going to be the tech in the tips we use, because it really effects the sound so much using different tips. I have had cheap tips sound better than expensive tips with certain model tw in the past.


I mentioned these a couple of posts ago: *Acoustune AET07 Eartip*
*Anyone here have them? Seems to be my kind of sig with sparkly treble, tight bass and big soundstage.*


----------



## eclein

I ordered the TC2, this one on AE for $25....you guys surely have seen these, anyone have one yet? Heard one yet?


----------



## falang (May 4, 2019)

For all of you who have used/owned/tested true wireless buds with and without aptx support, what sort of quality drop would one expect between the Advanced Model X vs Creative Outlier Air? I believe the latter has aptx support.

This would be via One Plus 6T. Music mostly synth wave and podcasts. Usage would be commuting and hiking.

Thanks for your help/expertise.


----------



## Caipirina

I am currently rediscovering some of my 'older' TWE (instead of just ordering new stuff   ) 

i.e. the Sony WF1000x ... which I ONLY bought because for reasons unknow (error?) they were on amazon warehouse for under 9€ !!!!  And they arrived in pristine packaging. Initially I gave them a pass because i needed something sweatproof for running ... and of course somehow I had expected too much from the advertized ANC ... 

 

Now, having tested out some different eartips, I am starting to appreciate the sound! And it still makes me giddy to have those at 10$ while they STILL sell for over 150$ online  

The other one I am still liking a lot is the LezII X12 (which I believe is related to all those other X12 s out there) ... that was another win on warehouse for around 30€ and my first / only earbud style TWE (unless you count the Bose SSFree as earbud style .. I think they are smack in the middle between earbud / in-ear)  ... that loose and open built makes for a great soundstage imho ... but they are indeed prone to falling off, so another one I can't use for running 

And while all those current cheapo ones being discussed here for 20-25-30$ are very tempting (and I have ordered the Anbes 359) ... I found spiritual inspiration in one post here mentioning 'I wait for QC5100 with ANC' .. of course, first I thought that was mention of an upcoming Bose QC model   That's what I am actually waiting for ... Their glorious ANC in those Frankenstein's Monster-Cork-Ears (another great phrase on this forum today) ... that would be my next wishlist topper ... but ok, after googling and learning about Qualcomm 5100 chips, I now understand that I better sit still and wait for the next family of TWEs to emerge with those chips and the features they promise ... until then, I will cherish what I have


----------



## assassin10000

eclein said:


> I ordered the TC2, this one on AE for $25....you guys surely have seen these, anyone have one yet? Heard one yet?



Same as the T1C IIRC. Just charging case with a lid and maybe a larger battery (more recharges).



falang said:


> For all of you who have used/owned/tested true wireless buds with and without aptx support, what sort of quality drop would one expect between the Advanced Model X vs Creative Outlier Air? I believe the latter has aptx support.
> 
> This would be via One Plus 6T. Music mostly synth wave and podcasts. Usage would be commuting and hiking.
> 
> Thanks for your help/expertise.



For podcasts will make no difference. Music will probably make a difference but, I think, maybe not too bad of one if commuting. Critical listening in a quiet spot would be a different story.


----------



## clerkpalmer

falang said:


> For all of you who have used/owned/tested true wireless buds with and without aptx support, what sort of quality drop would one expect between the Advanced Model X vs Creative Outlier Air? I believe the latter has aptx support.
> 
> This would be via One Plus 6T. Music mostly synth wave and podcasts. Usage would be commuting and hiking.
> 
> Thanks for your help/expertise.



Assuming your one plus supports AAC, I doubt you could hear a difference between AAC and aptx.


----------



## erich6

clerkpalmer said:


> Anyone ordering Powerbeats pro tomorrow? 250 is outrageous. I know I’ll be disappointed. Apple is counting on suckers like me to pay the Apple tax. So yes, I’m ordering.



Yup, I pre-ordered.  They seem to have the perfect form-factor for running.  I've tried the Jabra Elites and they fall off even if I'm just doing strength training.  The Bose ones sound pretty good and won't fall off with strength training but the left one falls out of my ear when I'm well into a run and sweaty.  The hooks on these should do the trick.  I have Airpods and I like the sound signature and ease of use/connectivity with my iPhone and Apple Watch.  These Beats should work for me!  I agree they are pricey....


----------



## Caipirina

Anyone here had a chance to listen to the Blitzwolf FYE5 ? I found some positive mention here about the BW FYE4 , but for the 5 I only find some so so YT reviews ... I really like how small the case is, and the fact that it is waterproof -ish

Oh, and it appears there's a sale on AliX in 2 days .. and somehow BlitzWolf official store does not know how sale works?


----------



## MidSmoothness

I just bought myself a Cowin KY02, looks like neat little TWS buds


----------



## bestchot

Has anyone tried Whizzer TP1? I'm really like its design.
What should I buy between Whizzer TP1 and Anbes 359?


----------



## howdy

Had the Earin m2 for about a week and gotta honestly say I love these little buds! Sound is great and comfort and low profile is awesome!


----------



## nc8000

howdy said:


> Had the Earin m2 for about a week and gotta honestly say I love these little buds! Sound is great and comfort and low profile is awesome!



Totally agree


----------



## silverfishla

bestchot said:


> Has anyone tried Whizzer TP1? I'm really like its design.
> What should I buy between Whizzer TP1 and Anbes 359?


I ordered the Whizzer TP1 but haven’t received them yet.  Will let you know what I think when I get them.  These have a lot  functionality.  They might be good, we’ll see.


----------



## 40760

Was considering between both as my rotation pair of TWS, but at about half the price, I ordered the Anbes 359 instead of the Whizzer.


----------



## FYLegend

Ok, my Jabra 65t seems to be busted. While there was previously a SLIGHT channel imbalance where the left bud is louder and also hisses more, the imbalance has become very drastic. Sometimes it will sound fine, but I suspect there is internal damage to the driver's connection. If I push the buds inward onto my ear, I can sometimes briefly hear how the volume should be, but then it dips as soon as I let go of my finger.

Not sure what's going on, but it seems Astrotec S60 sounds better through my laptop than my phone's SBC. The rattling/clipping is still there but the overall audio sounds cleaner and not as splashy.


----------



## Tommy C

FYLegend said:


> Ok, my Jabra 65t seems to be busted. While there was previously a SLIGHT channel imbalance where the left bud is louder and also hisses more, the imbalance has become very drastic. Sometimes it will sound fine, but I suspect there is internal damage to the driver's connection. If I push the buds inward onto my ear, I can sometimes briefly hear how the volume should be, but then it dips as soon as I let go of my finger.
> 
> Not sure what's going on, but it seems Astrotec S60 sounds better through my laptop than my phone's SBC. The rattling/clipping is still there but the overall audio sounds cleaner and not as splashy.



To me, if you push the bud deeper and the sound is ok but when you let go it’s weak, it sounds more like you’re not having a proper seal.


----------



## FYLegend

Tommy C said:


> To me, if you push the bud deeper and the sound is ok but when you let go it’s weak, it sounds more like you’re not having a proper seal.


No, it didn't do this for a long time of usage.  I'm not exactly pushing the bud against my ear but more so against itself on both sides or the button, and the volume jumps up while I do this but cuts way down when I stop. It might be tied to a damaged driver (for a long time I noticed driver flex) or a loose internal connection.


----------



## cigarello

So just received my Anbes 359. For the price these are stellar, no cut off during music listening and sound is actually decent although bass is a bit boomy, hopefully some burn in or eq can fix that. Two things I hate though, the driver flex and the fact that the buttons require a bit of force to push when in your ears and so the sound cuts out for a sec due to the ear tip being pushed against your ear. Everything else is perfect! 

Also wondering what ear tips everyone is using with their 359's? I'm using sony hybrids atm


----------



## Caipirina

cigarello said:


> So just received my Anbes 359. [...]Two things I hate though, the driver flex and ...



At the risk of sounding stupid, I finally have to ask, what is that mythical 'driver flex' ?  Awaiting my Andes359 in the mail as well...


----------



## chinmie

cigarello said:


> So just received my Anbes 359. For the price these are stellar, no cut off during music listening and sound is actually decent although bass is a bit boomy, hopefully some burn in or eq can fix that. Two things I hate though, the driver flex and the fact that the buttons require a bit of force to push when in your ears and so the sound cuts out for a sec due to the ear tip being pushed against your ear. Everything else is perfect!
> 
> Also wondering what ear tips everyone is using with their 359's? I'm using sony hybrids atm



my QCY T1C also has driver flex to a point that it could cut off the sound completely. now though, after i use the wide bores that slightly loose on the nozzle (it doesn't fall off, but loose enough that the earpiece' s nozzle can rotate in the eartips), i don't have driver flex with it anymore. 



Caipirina said:


> At the risk of sounding stupid, I finally have to ask, what is that mythical 'driver flex' ?  Awaiting my Andes359 in the mail as well...



driver flex is the crumpling of the dynamic driver's membrane, caused by the vacuum. it will sound like crackling plastic. you could reduce the risk of driver flex by using tips like i described above, or by sticking a thread or string between the eartips and the nozzle to let air pass


----------



## cigarello

chinmie said:


> my QCY T1C also has driver flex to a point that it could cut off the sound completely. now though, after i use the wide bores that slightly loose on the nozzle (it doesn't fall off, but loose enough that the earpiece' s nozzle can rotate in the eartips), i don't have driver flex with it anymore.
> 
> 
> 
> driver flex is the crumpling of the dynamic driver's membrane, caused by the vacuum. it will sound like crackling plastic. you could reduce the risk of driver flex by using tips like i described above, or by sticking a thread or string between the eartips and the nozzle to let air pass



I do have some wide bore tips that I could try! 

And as for the thread, do you literally put a piece of thread on top of the driver tip and then put on the eartip like normal? Seems interesting and worth a shot too


----------



## Caipirina

chinmie said:


> driver flex is the crumpling of the dynamic driver's membrane, caused by the vacuum. it will sound like crackling plastic. you could reduce the risk of driver flex by using tips like i described above, or by sticking a thread or string between the eartips and the nozzle to let air pass



Oh, I know that sound, never thought there was a name for that. Thank you!


----------



## cigarello

Caipirina said:


> Oh, I know that sound, never thought there was a name for that. Thank you!



Theres a name for everything these days isnt there haha. 

Is there a balanced armature tws earphone out? I just prefer the sounds of balanced armature and no driver flex!


----------



## Caipirina

cigarello said:


> Is there a balanced armature tws earphone out? I just prefer the sounds of balanced armature and no driver flex!



This is the only one I know of ... and look, there's a sale in 2h !!! yeah!!!!   (I have seen this one mentioned here are few times, check with the search feature)


----------



## cigarello

Caipirina said:


> This is the only one I know of ... and look, there's a sale in 2h !!! yeah!!!!   (I have seen this one mentioned here are few times, check with the search feature)



Wonder how they are. I use to own a pair of Astrotec AX60's and they were pretty good so curious to see how they are in the tws category


----------



## chinmie

cigarello said:


> I do have some wide bore tips that I could try!
> 
> And as for the thread, do you literally put a piece of thread on top of the driver tip and then put on the eartip like normal? Seems interesting and worth a shot too



that could work, or you could snip the excess string with scissor so that no string passes in front of the nozzle grill. I'll try to post a picture later if you like. 



cigarello said:


> Theres a name for everything these days isnt there haha.
> 
> Is there a balanced armature tws earphone out? I just prefer the sounds of balanced armature and no driver flex!



BA driver TWS that i know: Earin, Bragi the Headphone, Astrotec S60, TFZ x1 or Mifo o5 pro (same product) , TFZ B.V2, and F2, X26 chifi that i don't know the company's name of


----------



## nc8000

cigarello said:


> Theres a name for everything these days isnt there haha.
> 
> Is there a balanced armature tws earphone out? I just prefer the sounds of balanced armature and no driver flex!



The Earin M2 and they are 20% off at the moment


----------



## FYLegend

cigarello said:


> Wonder how they are. I use to own a pair of Astrotec AX60's and they were pretty good so curious to see how they are in the tws category


They are rather organic and warm-sounding with deep bass for a BA driver. I have the 4.2 version which is prone to cutouts using AAC every few minutes on my Android phone but maybe the 5.0 version improves this. Note that there are a few clones on Aliexpress and the housings used are "generic" (I've seen other TWS with different drivers and charging cases use the same design).


----------



## Caipirina (May 6, 2019)

nc8000 said:


> The Earin M2 and they are 20% off at the moment


Oooooh, where? (Checked AliX And Amazon EU)
[nevermind ...  earin.com ...]


----------



## nc8000

Caipirina said:


> Oooooh, where? (Checked AliX And Amazon EU)



At the Earin web site. Only white available


----------



## howdy

nc8000 said:


> At the Earin web site. Only white available


They are both out of stock and have been for a few weeks. I'm hoping this is a sign for a possible M3.


----------



## nc8000

howdy said:


> They are both out of stock and have been for a few weeks. I'm hoping this is a sign for a possible M3.



Ah, I only went as far as the main page, not to the actual product page


----------



## chinmie

now this is the best sounding TWS i have so far 

this TRN adapter is quite good! no hiss on my unit, and though if i listen critically there are slight degradation (or safer to say, differences) in sound, especially the treble grain, it's really negligible and could be argued that it's just the color of the amp section on the TRN unit. all in all the benefits trumps the negatives for me

connection is good so far on my phone (note8) with BT 5.0, even if i cover the unit with my hand.. although it's a bit patchy when i paired it to my tablet (which doesn't have bt 5.0).

the cables are a bit unwieldy ootb, but after heating it with a hair dryer  now it's really comfortable.

i also tried it with my BA driver iems, but i settled on the dynamic driver Kanas because the treble sounded a little metallic with the BA iems for me.

now that I've tried this form and enjoying it, can't wait for the Fostex TM2 to come out


----------



## Caipirina

chinmie said:


> now this is the best sounding TWS i have so far



Love those! Made me order a bunch of .75mm KS IEMs I don't have yet. 

Also contemplating to get the MMCX version for my several MMCX buds ...


----------



## AtariPrime

chinmie said:


> now this is the best sounding TWS i have so far
> 
> this TRN adapter is quite good! no hiss on my unit, and though if i listen critically there are slight degradation (or safer to say, differences) in sound, especially the treble grain, it's really negligible and could be argued that it's just the color of the amp section on the TRN unit. all in all the benefits trumps the negatives for me
> 
> ...



I would prefer my earbuds not look like giant hearing aids.


----------



## TooFrank

nc8000 said:


> Totally agree


You probably have answered this before, but how is the SQ compared with E8? The M2s look really tiny. 
Thanks


----------



## nc8000

TooFrank said:


> You probably have answered this before, but how is the SQ compared with E8? The M2s look really tiny.
> Thanks



The E8 possibly have a slight edge in a quiet environment and the longer battery life but the constant short cut outs of the left unit in the end got too annoying so the M2 has been my daily driver for getting on to 6 months now. 

Havit, Beoplay and Earin


----------



## TooFrank

nc8000 said:


> The E8 possibly have a slight edge in a quiet environment and the longer battery life but the constant short cut outs of the left unit in the end got too annoying so the M2 has been my daily driver for getting on to 6 months now.
> 
> Havit, Beoplay and Earin


Wow, the M2 are really small. I’ll wait until they get the black. For me, the E8 doesn’t drop out that frequent....
Again thanks


----------



## silverfishla

Penon Audio seem to have that new Hifiman tws and some other newer KZ tws available.  Don’t know about any of them but there there to look at the photos and specs.  One of the ones I saw claimed 6 hr play time.  Forgot which one.


----------



## Slater (May 6, 2019)

silverfishla said:


> Penon Audio seem to have that new Hifiman tws and some other newer KZ tws available.  Don’t know about any of them but there there to look at the photos and specs.  One of the ones I saw claimed 6 hr play time.  Forgot which one.



KZ has a new TWS? That’s big news, and I haven’t seen that info posted anywhere.

You sure it’s not TFZ? I checked Penon’s website and I don’t see any KZ TWS. Got a link?


----------



## silverfishla

Slater said:


> KZ has a new TWS? That’s big news, and I haven’t seen that info posted anywhere.
> 
> You sure it’s not TFZ? I checked Penon’s website and I don’t see any KZ TWS. Got a link?


You may be right @Slater ... too many Z’s.


----------



## howdy

TooFrank said:


> Wow, the M2 are really small. I’ll wait until they get the black. For me, the E8 doesn’t drop out that frequent....
> Again thanks


You'll probably have to buy them used as the black has been sold out for sure since January. The white sold out a few weeks back. I have E8s as well and do prefer the sound of the e8s but the M2s are no slouch. And I actually have had more drop outs with M2s than E8s. Both are really good for connection.


----------



## assassin10000

chinmie said:


> now this is the best sounding TWS i have so far
> 
> this TRN adapter is quite good! no hiss on my unit, and though if i listen critically there are slight degradation (or safer to say, differences) in sound, especially the treble grain, it's really negligible and could be argued that it's just the color of the amp section on the TRN unit. all in all the benefits trumps the negatives for me
> 
> ...




I wish they had APTX. (That and I'm too lazy to change my phone's setup to utilize AAC). Despite the decline in quality VS listening wired, it's worth it for the TWS convenience. I use it mostly with earbuds, as a lot of the time I'm not looking for isolation.


----------



## chinmie

assassin10000 said:


> I wish they had APTX. (That and I'm too lazy to change my phone's setup to utilize AAC). Despite the decline in quality VS listening wired, it's worth it for the TWS convenience. I use it mostly with earbuds, as a lot of the time I'm not looking for isolation.



yup, though i personally think there's not much difference between AAC and APTX, they are more like sidegrades in sound quality.

seeing you paired it with the smabat makes me want to buy another one to pair with my Svara L, but i already have two Sabbat x12, and this Mifo o2 is enticing! 

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Mif...Bluetooth-earphones-with-Mic/33010280928.html


----------



## nc8000

howdy said:


> You'll probably have to buy them used as the black has been sold out for sure since January. The white sold out a few weeks back. I have E8s as well and do prefer the sound of the e8s but the M2s are no slouch. And I actually have had more drop outs with M2s than E8s. Both are really good for connection.



In 6 months I’ve not had a single drop out on the M2 whereas with the E8 in over a years use there is an ultra short left unit cut out every few minutes on average


----------



## marcus2704

I am a few days in with the MW07s and they are really starting to grow on me now.  They have a similar sound quality as the Sennheiser TWs, but most importantly due to the fins they fit my ears without feeling like they are about to drop out all of the time.  They are also pretty gorgeous in terms of earphones, and feel premium unlike the Sennheisers which to me were too 'plasticky'.  I am using them with Spinfit CP100s, and would say I have a pretty good seal with these.  I will purchase a pair of Spinfit CP360s when I can get my hands on them.  Battery life hasn't yet been an issue to me, I use them mostly for a commute and its no issue to pop them onto charge once at my desk.


----------



## david8613 (May 7, 2019)

anything new dethrone the anbes 359 at that price point yet? I am anxious to get another excellent sleeper tw, i am having to much fun with these! my current arsenal is the Jabra 65t, sennheiser twm, and the anbes 359, and to be honest the Jabra 65t has not been used at all lately with my senn. and anbes sound and working so good! my Jabra 65t are an excellent pair of tw with zero problems others have experienced here.


----------



## Caipirina

david8613 said:


> anything new dethrone the anbes 359 at that price point yet?



Maybe not to 'dethrone', but at 17.68$ I thought I'd add the Anomoibuds Capsule TWS to my collection after I saw Bartig saying nice things about it on his collective medium.com review : "_Don't like the design of the QCY QS1/ T1C for some reason? Don't worry, there's a great alternative. The Anomoibuds Capsule TWS actually has two small advantages over the QCY. ... _"  better audio / video sync being one ...


----------



## nc8000

I’ve not used my Beoplay E8 or Havit G1 at all since I got the Earin M2 6 months ago


----------



## RobinFood

chinmie said:


> yup, though i personally think there's not much difference between AAC and APTX, they are more like sidegrades in sound quality.
> 
> seeing you paired it with the smabat makes me want to buy another one to pair with my Svara L, but i already have two Sabbat x12, and this Mifo o2 is enticing!
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Mif...Bluetooth-earphones-with-Mic/33010280928.html



Just want to say thank you and damn you at the same time!
Although I GREATLY prefer the sound on my Nuarls, having a family, work, and commuting by bicycle has me using the Sabbats more than anything else, although at home they are starting to get replaced by smart speakers...if the Mifo O2 has even better sound than the Sabbat (not hard), they will be an easy buy considering that they come with that really nice indestructible metal case.


----------



## AtariPrime

marcus2704 said:


> I am a few days in with the MW07s and they are really starting to grow on me now.  They have a similar sound quality as the Sennheiser TWs, but most importantly due to the fins they fit my ears without feeling like they are about to drop out all of the time.  *They are also pretty gorgeous in terms of earphones*, and feel premium unlike the Sennheisers which to me were too 'plasticky'.  I am using them with Spinfit CP100s, and would say I have a pretty good seal with these.  I will purchase a pair of Spinfit CP360s when I can get my hands on them.  Battery life hasn't yet been an issue to me, I use them mostly for a commute and its no issue to pop them onto charge once at my desk.



Gorgeous?  How is a giant surfboard sticking out of your ear gorgeous?  The size of the MW07 is what keeps me away.  Too big.  I want ninjas that the world never sees, not a Dennis Rodmans. To each his own I guess.


----------



## chinmie

aaaand, adding one to my ignore list


----------



## 40760

chinmie said:


> aaaand, adding one to my ignore list



I can see why... I'm on the verge of doing so myself...


----------



## clerkpalmer

AtariPrime said:


> Gorgeous?  How is a giant surfboard sticking out of your ear gorgeous?  The size of the MW07 is what keeps me away.  Too big.  I want ninjas that the world never sees, not a Dennis Rodmans. To each his own I guess.



If you think the MW07 is large, the true wireless may not be for you.  MW07 has one of the sleekest profiles of all TW buds I have tried.  That said, there are options.  The earin M2 and the new Advanced Model X are pretty small if that's what is important to you.  The vast majority will be equal to or larger than the MW07.  I think your characterization of them is a bit off base but as you said, "to each his own".


----------



## korefuji

i love the look of the mw07, they are the most premium looking imo. Gorgeous unique marble effect, and they fit my big ears 

Anyway, got my Creative Outlier Air this afternoon, going to give them a spin tomorrow. Looking forward to see how they perform in a noisy street


----------



## AtariPrime (May 7, 2019)

clerkpalmer said:


> If you think the MW07 is large, the true wireless may not be for you.  MW07 has one of the sleekest profiles of all TW buds I have tried.  That said, there are options.  The earin M2 and the new Advanced Model X are pretty small if that's what is important to you.  The vast majority will be equal to or larger than the MW07.  I think your characterization of them is a bit off base but as you said, "to each his own".



The face of the MW07 is the problem.  It has a large surface area on the outside of the outermost portion of the earbud.  I would consider an earbud with a 'sleek' profile the Earin M-2 or the Galaxy Buds.  There are two dynamics when discussing 'large' earbuds, those that stick out far to the side and those that are easy to see. The Galaxy Buds are compact but not so much more than others such as the Under Armour True Wireless buds.  The key difference in size is that top of the Under Armour buds is more or less shaved off and then they are very similar in size.  The MW07 has what could be describe as a table on top of the earbud, likely a housing for the speaker or magnet, regardless of which, it creates a large plate-like area, larger than any other true wirless earbud that I can think of.  Maybe it doesn't stick out as much ast the Under Armour's or maybe the B&O E8, but it defintely creates more surface area that others can see.  For that reason, it is not an ideal earbud.  As far as basic concept, the Earin M-2 seems to be the best design but needs to be updated with a better speaker and chip.

True wireless earbuds exist to avoid cords.  I don't wear them as a fashion statement, I wear them as a more convenient version of wired earbuds.  If they aren't compact, for me, that negates their reason for existing.  Wired earbuds will always have a better sound, its in their nature to have a better sound because quality (at least into the foreseeable future) will always be lost using bluetooth or other wireless signal due to compression.

If you don't like that I'm not a fan of the MW07, ok, ignore me.  But you can't argue with the fact that they have larger dimensions than much of the competition.  If you are into that, enjoy.

I love the look of the Advanced Model X, however the battery life seems to be subpar for the newer models that are coming out.


----------



## LajostheHun

I don't like echo chambers the diversity of thoughts are the true diversity of humans!


----------



## clerkpalmer

For those interested, I just received an email that the Model X is available for order direct from Advanced.


----------



## Slater (May 7, 2019)

Attention QCY QS1/T1C owners:

I’ve made a little case for my buds.

Normally, I wouldn’t really care about such things, but one really annoying thing is anytime either of the buttons is bumped the buds wake up and attach to my phone. And if my music is playing in the car or somewhere else, the music source switches to the buds. I have to remove the buds from the case, then put them right back in the case for them to disconnect and go back to sleep. Super irritating.

Anyways, I found a used prescription medicine bottle that fit the case perfectly (shown below). It’s a friction fit, so it fits _just_ tight enough that they don’t fall out (even when turned upside down, shaking it violently, etc), but not so tight that they can’t push out by hand.

With this case, they are now 95% protected from dust, dirt, falling out, etc.

I didn’t care about using the bottle lid, because I wanted it to be fast and way to put in an take out of the case. If I wanted to use the lid, they would be 100% sealed and even waterproof. But again, that was a choice I made. Since I didn’t want the lid, I just sanded off the threads (even though it was unnecessary).

I also cut a hole in the bottom of the bottle so I can push the case out through the hole (not shown below). I even made a cutout for the charger plug (shown below).

The nice thing is that since the bottle is transparent, I can see the charging status of of the buds and/or the case. It does not really add any bulk, because the plastic bottle is so thin.

Once in the case, I can happily toss them in my pocket, the car glove box, my gym bag, or whatever without fear of the buttons being pushed.

Of course it’s not sexy or space age looking, but it’s functional and was free. If you don’t have a bottle that fits, stop by any local pharmacy and ask and they will give you a bottle for free.


----------



## GearMe

AtariPrime said:


> The face of the MW07 is the problem.  It has a large surface area on the outside of the outermost portion of the earbud...
> The MW07 has what could be described as a table on top of the earbud, likely a housing for the speaker or magnet, regardless of which, it creates a large plate-like area, larger than any other true wireless earbud that I can think of...
> If you don't like that I'm not a fan of the MW07, ok, ignore me. But you can't argue with the fact that they have larger dimensions than much of the competition. If you are into that, enjoy.





chinmie said:


> aaaand, adding one to my ignore list




Note to self...never call somebody's baby ugly! 

It could've been worse!
Initial Prototype of the MW07 below  





(after extensive user testing the wire was removed and the plate-like area was shrunk by 4mm) 




AtariPrime said:


> True wireless earbuds exist to avoid cords.  I don't wear them as a fashion statement, I wear them as a more convenient version of wired earbuds.  If they aren't compact, for me, that negates their reason for existing.


Yep...same here!



AtariPrime said:


> Wired earbuds will always have a better sound, its in their nature to have a better sound because quality (at least into the foreseeable future) will always be lost using bluetooth or other wireless signal due to compression.


Wireless is getting better...but this is still true!


That said...Some people just seem better suited for these ear-plates than others.

Princess Leia shown modeling the new MW07 Star Wars Edition





(hands strategically placed to support additional load to neck)
(yeah...I know...added to the ignore list!)


----------



## Slater

Does anyone know when the QCY T3 will be available?

I have a good friend that’s in the market for an AirPod format TW that isn’t a steaming pile of poo like all the other AirPod knockoffs.

I know if anyone can pull it off QCY can.


----------



## assassin10000

Slater said:


> Does anyone know when the QCY T3 will be available?
> 
> I have a good friend that’s in the market for an AirPod format TW that isn’t a steaming pile of poo like all the other AirPod knockoffs.
> 
> I know if anyone can pull it off QCY can.



No interest in the Sabbat x12?


----------



## chinmie

GearMe said:


> Note to self...never call somebody's baby ugly!
> 
> It could've been worse!
> Initial Prototype of the MW07 below
> ...



hey, at least that Leia Edition doubles as ears warmer in Hoth, and not to mention the huuuuuge soundstage! 

the fact is i don't even have the MW07 or even remotely want to buy it, not because it's ugly (i personally think it's one of the coolest looking TWS around), but because of the battery life and lack of update. 

except for the Sony, most of my TWS are small, especially the Earin. the funny thing is (and i assume many here) i also would like to have the smallest form possible, with the longest battery, really good and long connection range, highest IPX rating, and the best sound.....and at a cheap price can't have them all in one product yet. give it a couple of years maybe? 

it's just the mentality of saying everything that don't suit my specific needs are not even worth existing in this world is a bit too much in my book..more so if saying it repeatedly to reply others who just happen to have it and happy with it just to state my personal point. 

that's just sending out negative vibes without adding something to this thread

TWS tech is advancing, people here have a wide range of preference and needs. just read and assess your own conclusions, buy what you need.


----------



## Slater (May 7, 2019)

assassin10000 said:


> No interest in the Sabbat x12?



He wants one that’s the AirPod style.

Not because he wants to look like a cool Apple fanboy or anything. He just needs one that lays in the ear for better situational awareness (ie no silicone tip seal) and easy to pop in and out when he’s bothered by a coworker or family member. I told him the sound quality sucks on that style, but he’s ok with it.

He’s also hoping the mic will be better on the ones that stick out a bit.


----------



## chinmie

Slater said:


> He wants one that’s the AirPod style.
> 
> Not because he wants to look like a cool Apple fanboy or anything. He just needs one that lays in the ear for better situational awareness (ie no silicone tip seal) and easy to pop in and out when he’s bothered by a coworker or family member. I told him the sound quality sucks on that style, but he’s ok with it.
> 
> He’s also hoping the mic will be better on the ones that stick out a bit.



open isolation i can think of are the airpod knockoffs.. the Mifo o2 also have a smallish stem, but not long enough i guess


----------



## srinivasvignesh

The X12 is exactly that? earbud style, no silicone tip to seal. Excellent situational awareness.  Sound is actually pretty decent for the price on the X12. 

BTW, the mic is fantastic on the Sabbat X12 (not so good on the E12). I use the X12 even for my professional calls.


----------



## Slater (May 7, 2019)

srinivasvignesh said:


> The X12 is exactly that? earbud style, no silicone tip to seal. Excellent situational awareness.  Sound is actually pretty decent for the price on the X12.
> 
> BTW, the mic is fantastic on the Sabbat X12 (not so good on the E12). I use the X12 even for my professional calls.



Ah, OK I’ll let him know.

BTW, is the Sabbat X12 and X12 Pro the same thing?

Thanks guys!


----------



## srinivasvignesh

THere are two versions. The ones with USB type-C charging and the ones with micro USB. I ordered two of the X12 Pros, and both came with USB Type-C charging. 

Other than the charging port, I do not know of any other differences (there could be, just that I am not aware)


----------



## GearMe

chinmie said:


> hey, at least that Leia Edition doubles as ears warmer in Hoth, and not to mention the huuuuuge soundstage!
> 
> the fact is i don't even have the MW07 or even remotely want to buy it, not because it's ugly (i personally think it's one of the coolest looking TWS around), but because of the battery life and lack of update.
> 
> ...



Yeah...just interjecting some humor to lighten up the topic!  

Big believer, as well, in people enjoying whatever equipment works for them as they listen to their favorite music. 

Have several TWS sets too but probably wouldn't invest in a $300 set...will wait for that level of quality to hit the $100-150 mark in the coming year or so.  That said, if I did, I'd lean toward the Senns...and, yes, part of that would be the 'better' form factor  which is funny because I like the look of M&D's headphones.


----------



## Slater (May 7, 2019)

srinivasvignesh said:


> THere are two versions. The ones with USB type-C charging and the ones with micro USB. I ordered two of the X12 Pros, and both came with USB Type-C charging.
> 
> Other than the charging port, I do not know of any other differences (there could be, just that I am not aware)



When you guys wear them, do they work best with silicone wings or some type of silicone cover to help the stay in place?

I personally feel like the pod style of earbud always wants to fall out, no matter if it’s OEM Apple or 3rd party hard wired pods (like my MEMT T5). I always have to use a silicone cover with a wing.

And do you have to remove the covers to recharge them, or does the charge case accommodate for a cover?

Thanks


----------



## hifi80sman

Just got the Anbes 359 and they are on their way today (the Amazon driver is just 1 stop away!).  They had a 25% off coupon dripping it down from $42 to about $32.  Still not as good as when they were on promo code for $22, but I'm not going to sit around for another month just to save $10.  Gotta see what all the fuss is about!


----------



## 40760 (May 7, 2019)

chinmie said:


> it's just the mentality of saying everything that don't suit my specific needs are not even worth existing in this world is a bit too much in my book..more so if saying it repeatedly to reply others who just happen to have it and happy with it just to state my personal point.



That was not the only post with such assertion. While I gave my benefit of doubt and guess they weren't intentional, it has crossed line of being straightforward to outright offensive. I don't own the M&D myself but many others here do and they love them.


----------



## chinmie

Slater said:


> When you guys wear them, do they work best with silicone wings or some type of silicone cover to help the stay in place?
> 
> I personally feel like the pod style of earbud always wants to fall out, no matter if it’s OEM Apple or 3rd party hard wired pods (like my MEMT T5). I always have to use a silicone cover with a wing.
> 
> ...



i use thin earbud foams on my sabbats. raises the bass impact  a bit while still retains the airy sound.. bonus is it can still charge in the case


----------



## srinivasvignesh

Slater said:


> When you guys wear them, do they work best with silicone wings or some type of silicone cover to help the stay in place?
> 
> I personally feel like the pod style of earbud always wants to fall out, no matter if it’s OEM Apple or 3rd party hard wired pods (like my MEMT T5). I always have to use a silicone cover with a wing.
> 
> ...



Cant say for sure, unfortunately. I have been using them without any accessories like wings for them to stay put. Granted, I do not do any heavy exercises with these on. Maximum, brisk walking. For that purpose, it has stayed on pretty well.


----------



## srinivasvignesh

chinmie said:


> i use thin earbud foams on my sabbats. raises the bass impact  a bit while still retains the airy sound.. bonus is it can still charge in the case



Which ones? Maybe I can try them too.


----------



## Caipirina

GearMe said:


> Princess Leia shown modeling the new MW07 Star Wars Edition
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Thanks for finally clarifying this. Always thought those were the Bose Soundsport Free with ANC beta testing.


----------



## chinmie

srinivasvignesh said:


> Which ones? Maybe I can try them too.



i bought it here last year for my earbuds:
https://m.aliexpress.com/item/32790634729.html


----------



## Donatello91

Can the current True Wireless really compare with good wired ones? Sonically wise -


----------



## clerkpalmer

Donatello91 said:


> Can the current True Wireless really compare with good wired ones? Sonically wise -


Generally No. Mw07 comes closest. I do think it outperforms many Wired headsets. I prefer them to 1more triple for example.


----------



## assassin10000 (May 8, 2019)

Slater said:


> When you guys wear them, do they work best with silicone wings or some type of silicone cover to help the stay in place?
> 
> I personally feel like the pod style of earbud always wants to fall out, no matter if it’s OEM Apple or 3rd party hard wired pods (like my MEMT T5). I always have to use a silicone cover with a wing.
> 
> ...





chinmie said:


> i use thin earbud foams on my sabbats. raises the bass impact  a bit while still retains the airy sound.. bonus is it can still charge in the case




The included silicone wings do not fit the charging case. I always wore mine without them, as they fit pretty well without them given their shape. The main body was captured by the earpod at the front and the anti-tragus at the rear. Pretty comfortable and fairly secure.

I actually shortened the earpod opening a bit on mine.


In any case, I also wore foams for increased bass. I ended up making some offset donut style ones to retain the mids/treble. Similar to using thin foams but less itchy to me:



assassin10000 said:


> The leather punches I ordered showed up today. They work great to mod the earbud foams I'm using on the Sabbat X12 Pro. Used the 4mm size.





Also x12 and x12 pro is the same, just didnt type the 'pro' part. It is the E12 you want to avoid iirc.


----------



## FYLegend (May 8, 2019)

Is E12 not really worth it? There's a huge hype on YouTube recently.  It seems to tick all the boxes for me (USB Type C, wireless charging, bassy sound). I'm just wondering how they compare to something like the Astrotec S60 or Jabra 65t.

Would like something with an "ambient sound" function though.

Also, Astrotec said they were gonna announce a new TWS on Facebook in April, but this seems to be delayed and yesterday they posted a teaser sketch:

 
The shape in the middle - could it be the diamond design similar to what they used for the GX40/BX70? Would be nice to see their own design language rather than the generic housing they used for S60 (which creaks quite a bit after extended use).


----------



## chinmie

FYLegend said:


> Is E12 not really worth it? There's a huge hype on YouTube recently.  It seems to tick all the boxes for me (USB Type C, wireless charging, bassy sound). I'm just wondering how they compare to something like the Astrotec S60 or Jabra 65t.
> 
> Would like something with an "ambient sound" function though.
> 
> ...



based on sound, the E12 is a bit harsh on the treble. not sibilant, but like listening to lower bitrate mp3s or FM radio kind of treble. also the bass is boomy and uncontrolled. add the point that my unit's left earpiece is dead due to corrupted battery after a few days. i had high hopes for the E12 because of the X12, but turned out disappointed. 

still love the X12 though

i have found some chifi TWS that have ambient sound while browsing, I'll post it here later, just need to re-find it


----------



## FYLegend

I do recall deciding between the S60 and another Type-C charging TWS which was the Jabees Firefly, which did have ambient sound. The audio quality wasn't as good as S60 as while they are BT 5.0 they don't support AAC or other HQ codecs.

Samsung put out a new update recently which seems to improve connectivity of my S60. It still cuts out every now and then but typically around 15 minutes or so rather than 5-6 minutes.


----------



## webvan

Ok, signing off, please someone ping me when some QC512x TWEs with ANC surface !


----------



## zerolight

clerkpalmer said:


> Generally No. Mw07 comes closest. I do think it outperforms many Wired headsets. I prefer them to 1more triple for example.



How about your MTW?


----------



## clerkpalmer

zerolight said:


> How about your MTW?


Hard to describe. The mw07 sound special. The mtw sound very good. They may even be technically “better” than mw07 in terms of clarity and detail. They definitely can hang with some affordable wired headphones.


----------



## zerolight

clerkpalmer said:


> Hard to describe. The mw07 sound special. The mtw sound very good. They may even be technically “better” than mw07 in terms of clarity and detail. They definitely can hang with some affordable wired headphones.



Thanks. What's your musical tastes? I'm mostly a rock / hard rock / little bit of metal sort of guy. Loved the K10U I had, but couldn't justify holding on to them for the amount of use they got. Do miss them though. I don't mind my Bose Soundsport Wireless (bought to use on mountain bike) and my Sony 1000XM3s, but K10U were close to perfect.


----------



## zerolight

I'm kinda hoping the new Powerbeats Pro turn out to be very un-Beats and sound good. The convenience factor of those with an iPhone / iPad / Apple Watch is pretty stellar. But they need to sound good.


----------



## clerkpalmer

zerolight said:


> Thanks. What's your musical tastes? I'm mostly a rock / hard rock / little bit of metal sort of guy. Loved the K10U I had, but couldn't justify holding on to them for the amount of use they got. Do miss them though. I don't mind my Bose Soundsport Wireless (bought to use on mountain bike) and my Sony 1000XM3s, but K10U were close to perfect.


Rock, alt rock, classic rock. I also enjoy the Bose sound signature. I would say the mw07 May fit you best. But the mtw is certainly a good option.


----------



## clerkpalmer

zerolight said:


> I'm kinda hoping the new Powerbeats Pro turn out to be very un-Beats and sound good. The convenience factor of those with an iPhone / iPad / Apple Watch is pretty stellar. But they need to sound good.


Me too. Expectations are low. Hoping to be surprised. Will promptly be returned if they don’t sound excellent.


----------



## NYG92 (May 8, 2019)

Does anyone have experience with the qcy t1 pro with updated BT 5.0 and increased battery life? I like the fact that they have touch controls and the option to either use wings or not. The case is kinda big though. Is their sound quality somewhat similar to the qcy qs1/t1c?


----------



## ubs28

I am thinking about pre-ordering the powerbeats pro. My Apple Airpods are not really suitable for sports and these might fit the bill.

I hope they don’t block all noises as I do need to hear my surroundings for safety reasons.


----------



## d3myz

eclein said:


> I ordered the TC2, this one on AE for $25....you guys surely have seen these, anyone have one yet? Heard one yet?


I have them. they are great! exact same as the T1C, but have a larger charging case.


----------



## d3myz

NYG92 said:


> Does anyone have experience with the qcy t1 pro with updated BT 5.0 and increased battery life? I like the fact that they have touch controls and the option to either use wings or not. The case is kinda big though. Is their sound quality somewhat similar to the qcy qs1/t1c?


I have 2 pairs of them. Excellent for audiobooks, not much bass, but a little better mids and highs than the T1C. They last about a solid 3 hours on my iphone. Touch is cool and they are definitely smaller and better made. Case is very nice.


----------



## mjb152

Just got the anbes 359 and I'm properly impressed, I also have the ocy t1c which are almost as good, but these are a little louder and I prefer the case, form factor and usb c charging.
I'd be interested to try these against the galaxy buds, and then against the sennheiser just to see what £250 will buy.


----------



## The Socialist Nerd

I just ordered two of the iSine Bluetooth Cipher cables and right now I am testing it with my kickbutt iSine LX’s and Samsung Note 9. So far so good!


----------



## howdy

The Socialist Nerd said:


> I just ordered two of the iSine Bluetooth Cipher cables and right now I am testing it with my kickbutt iSine LX’s and Samsung Note 9. So far so good!


Why two of them?
I thinking of selling Cipher BT cable for my iSine20s as there is way to much difference between the BT cable and V1 & V2 Cables. Right now im using V2 a lot.
I'm also considering selling my MW07, they just don't get used enough.


----------



## The Socialist Nerd

howdy said:


> Why two of them?
> I thinking of selling Cipher BT cable for my iSine20s as there is way to much difference between the BT cable and V1 & V2 Cables. Right now im using V2 a lot.
> I'm also considering selling my MW07, they just don't get used enough.



I have one for my iSine LX and I got one for the heavily discounted iSine 10 which was I think some discounted leftovers from the Apple Store. Two IEMs.


----------



## actorlife

5hr battery. Volume control. Lightning sale 30 bucks. I like the way they fit in the pics: Bluetooth Earphone, 5.0 Stereo Wireless Headphone with Siri Voice Control in-Ear Earbuds, IPX7 Waterproof Sport Earphone with Mini Portable Charging Case https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07M7P37NR/ref=cm_sw_r_sms_apa_i_DM30CbX1BY8ZA


----------



## cigarello

Anyones Anbes 359 cuts out intermittently when their phone is in their pockets while walking/running? Mine seems to cut out quite a bit but is fine if my phone is in my hand. Quite annoying but I may have got a dud pair?


----------



## hifi80sman

cigarello said:


> Anyones Anbes 359 cuts out intermittently when their phone is in their pockets while walking/running? Mine seems to cut out quite a bit but is fine if my phone is in my hand. Quite annoying but I may have got a dud pair?


No, mine does not.

The range is pretty solid.  Overall, the Anbes 359 are a great set at a fabulous price.  Not the best detail retrieval, but come on, why would I wear the Anbes 359 for critical listening?!  They are very good and I can honestly say that they are more than just utilitarian; I actually enjoy the music coming out of them (they use AAC).

The only downside, is they are slippery as hell, but thanks to my cat-like reflexes and ninja moves, I've caught them before they hit the ground and rolled around.  If they made the buds with a rubberized coating, they'd be perfect for a sub-$40 pair.


----------



## falang (May 9, 2019)

I received the Advanced Model X I ordered last week based on Clerk Palmer's recommendation.

To be honest, their aesthetic really appealed to me so I purchased them despite the lack of aptx and usb-c. My first impressions are very positive. Very lively sound, some good bass kick, and lot more fun than my one plus one wireless bullets which sound almost distant and veiled compared to the Model X (amateur audiophile here, so take these words with a grain of salt).

These are my initial impressions. In terms of connectivity, they can be a bit finicky with connecting to my one plus 6t, and on some occasions, I connect only one ear bud. Probably user error, but hopefully I'll figure out what I'm doing wrong soon.

I also have a pair of Anies 359 in transit, so I will give them a comparison eventually.


----------



## Caipirina

Follow up question on the TRN BT20 topic ... anyone pairing it with the TRN V80? As shown in promotional materials? 


 

Well, I received my V80 yesterday and like them quite some, but they are the ONLY IEMs that get a terrible hiss / white noise when attached to the BT20s ... and I tried many others, KZs and TRNs ... 
Was hoping that maybe someone had found a solution to this issue ...


----------



## BigAund

Has anybody tried the updated Zolo Liberty? The ones with the 100hr case and 8hr playtime?

I'm looking for something cheap and reliable to use when I go on holiday and long playtime is a must. I have the MTW but its battery isn't great and the case is still prone to the discharge problem despite the new firmware. Any suggestions for long battery life and decent sound?


----------



## chinmie

BigAund said:


> Has anybody tried the updated Zolo Liberty? The ones with the 100hr case and 8hr playtime?
> 
> I'm looking for something cheap and reliable to use when I go on holiday and long playtime is a must. I have the MTW but its battery isn't great and the case is still prone to the discharge problem despite the new firmware. Any suggestions for long battery life and decent sound?



the Mifo with it's case provide excellent battery life. first time i got it i used it extensively everyday and only need to charge the case after one month. the waterproofing also an added safety bonus. the sound is bloomy and warm, and has intimate staging.


----------



## BigAund

Do you know whats the difference between the Pro and the regular one? And are these USB C?




chinmie said:


> the Mifo with it's case provide excellent battery life. first time i got it i used it extensively everyday and only need to charge the case after one month. the waterproofing also an added safety bonus. the sound is bloomy and warm, and has intimate staging.


----------



## chinmie

BigAund said:


> Do you know whats the difference between the Pro and the regular one? And are these USB C?



the pro uses single BA driver while the regular uses single micro dynamic driver. all else the same. they still use micro usb


----------



## Slater

cigarello said:


> Anyones Anbes 359 cuts out intermittently when their phone is in their pockets while walking/running? Mine seems to cut out quite a bit but is fine if my phone is in my hand. Quite annoying but I may have got a dud pair?



Try your phone in the other pocket.

Many of these TWs operate in a master-slave configuration. So for example, your phone may actually pair and maintain a connection with the Left bud. And the left bud itself communicates with the right bud.

So in my example above, if you had your phone in your right pocket, you may get dropouts, since you’re body is in the way and is blocking/absorbing signal. So switching the phone to the left pocket would allow better connectivity with the left (master) bud.

There’s no standard on which side is master though. On the QCY QS1/T1C, it’s the right bud. So I have best luck keeping my phone on my right side front or back pocket.


----------



## Slater

Caipirina said:


> Follow up question on the TRN BT20 topic ... anyone pairing it with the TRN V80? As shown in promotional materials?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



The problem with the v80 is something internal, with grounding, design of the crossover, or something like that. The v80 are problematic on Bluetooth cables, and can even shock people when wearing them.

If you use the v80 with Bluetooth, you’re going to have to put up with the noise. I’d strongly recommend pairing the BT20 with any IEM other than the v80.


----------



## clerkpalmer

Slater said:


> The problem with the v80 is something internal, with grounding, design of the crossover, or something like that. The v80 are problematic on Bluetooth cables, and can even shock people when wearing them.
> 
> If you use the v80 with Bluetooth, you’re going to have to put up with the noise. I’d strongly recommend pairing the BT20 with any IEM other than the v80.


Yes. I bought the bt20 to go with v80 and they are unlistenable. I have never even tried tried the bt20 again. I guess I should consider picking up a new iem to test with it.


----------



## Caipirina

Slater said:


> The problem with the v80 is something internal, with grounding, design of the crossover, or something like that. The v80 are problematic on Bluetooth cables, and can even shock people when wearing them.
> 
> If you use the v80 with Bluetooth, you’re going to have to put up with the noise. I’d strongly recommend pairing the BT20 with any IEM other than the v80.



Thanks @Slater and @clerkpalmer for the feedback. Well, I had kinda read something about that before but dismissed it as 'maybe single case' or 'can't be that bad' (no, it's worse), but good thing is that I have several .75mm IEMs and I rotate them on the BT20 .. or their cables, or my balanced .75mm cable (on which the V80 sound great) .. just really surprised that TRN did not catch that glitch, seemingly advertizing them as a match made in heaven


----------



## Slater

Caipirina said:


> Thanks @Slater and @clerkpalmer for the feedback. Well, I had kinda read something about that before but dismissed it as 'maybe single case' or 'can't be that bad' (no, it's worse), but good thing is that I have several .75mm IEMs and I rotate them on the BT20 .. or their cables, or my balanced .75mm cable (on which the V80 sound great) .. just really surprised that TRN did not catch that glitch, seemingly advertizing them as a match made in heaven



In my opinion, TRN has had some growing pains and a few stumbles as they’ve learned to get their footing.

Tuning problems, mass QC recalls, faceplates coming unglued, etc.

They do seem to get a little better with each IEM release. Perhaps I’ll try one of their IEMs one day soon.

Their Bluetooth stuff is excellent though, and I own numerous models.


----------



## clerkpalmer

Slater said:


> In my opinion, TRN has had some growing pains and a few stumbles as they’ve learned to get their footing.
> 
> Tuning problems, mass QC recalls, faceplates coming unglued, etc.
> 
> ...


I probably have asked a few times but can I get a couple of recommendations for a decent iem to use other than v80? Would like to try the bt20 again. I’d lean toward a warm v shaped signature for my intended use in the gym. Thanks guys.


----------



## Caipirina

clerkpalmer said:


> I probably have asked a few times but can I get a couple of recommendations for a decent iem to use other than v80? Would like to try the bt20 again. I’d lean toward a warm v shaped signature for my intended use in the gym. Thanks guys.



Do you sweat a lot? (I do!) I would personally NOT use the BT20 in any sweaty environment ... that being said, you could start maybe with the ZS3, those guys sound fun and carried me through my first half marathon (wired) ... recently I am enjoying the ZSR for fun gym / EDM like sound. But also TRN's V20 (no hiss) are on my 'not so expensive, but fun' IEM rotation.


----------



## Inear

I backed Adv-Sound Model X on indigogo and so far, I've been impressed with the battery life, connectivity issue has happened with the left bud. The controls work flawlessly, the bass is good. Battery life is good. I've been using Compy foams for Jabra Elite 65t and they fit in the case.


----------



## 05stisilver

I haven't seen anyone post anything about the one more true wireless. Nor have I seen any online reviews. I decided to order it with the Mothers day discount (mom25). It. Came out to @80 usd. 1 more has put out some quality products so I figured I'd give it a shot.

6.5 hour battery life
15 minute fast charge for 3hr battery
Bluetooth 5
Aptx, AAC
Titanium driver


----------



## NYG92

d3myz said:


> I have 2 pairs of them. Excellent for audiobooks, not much bass, but a little better mids and highs than the T1C. They last about a solid 3 hours on my iphone. Touch is cool and they are definitely smaller and better made. Case is very nice.



Thanks for the reply. Have ordered them. Will be my first tws iems. Hope they are good.


----------



## Soreniglio

05stisilver said:


> I haven't seen anyone post anything about the one more true wireless. Nor have I seen any online reviews. I decided to order it with the Mothers day discount (mom25). It. Came out to @80 usd. 1 more has put out some quality products so I figured I'd give it a shot.
> 
> 6.5 hour battery life
> 15 minute fast charge for 3hr battery
> ...



Are you referring to these? https://www.gizmochina.com/2019/04/...s-¥799-119-nubia-pods-truly-wireless-earbuds/


----------



## clerkpalmer

Soreniglio said:


> Are you referring to these? https://www.gizmochina.com/2019/04/08/nubia-partners-with-1more-launches-¥799-119-nubia-pods-truly-wireless-earbuds/


I was going to say looks like 1more quietly updated these. Original specs were less impressive.


----------



## 05stisilver

Soreniglio said:


> Are you referring to these? https://www.gizmochina.com/2019/04/08/nubia-partners-with-1more-launches-¥799-119-nubia-pods-truly-wireless-earbuds/



It appears so but I ordered them from the 1 more website which doesn't mention nubia.


----------



## Griffith (May 9, 2019)

I was one of the first people to respond to this thread but it's been a while since I made that statement and some things have changed in the meantime in the industry so I want to make an updated one for people reading this today.

I still believe that it is too early to buy fully wireless IEMs if you don't want to compromise on battery life, sound quality or connectivity issues. Most fully wireless IEMs still suffer from some or all three of the issues I mentioned. The best all-round fully wireless "IEM" is Apple's Airpods but, as most of you know, they don't sound particularly great, they isolate very poorly and while they can work with Android devices, they were designed for Apple's Ecosystem.

There are a few fully wireless IEMs which stand out from the crowd, like the Sennheiser Momentum True Wireless, but most, if not all, of them don't support LDAC which is the highest quality audio codec available for Bluetooth and, in my opinion, should be supported by all high-end Bluetooth earphones/headphones. For most people the Momentum True Wireless will have sufficiently good sound quality for them to not be bothered about the codec, and while it doesn't support LDAC it does support Aptx and Aptx Low Latency which is better than nothing. But if you want the least amount of sound quality compromise, Aptx is not the best solution.

Until recently I didn't believe that we'd be able to get a wireless headphone with sound quality comparable to a good desktop one but that changed when I purchased the Sony WH-H900N or h.ear On 2. What changed my opinion was the way the Sony sound which I find to be closer to, though not at the same level as, my beloved Sennheiser HD 6XX. That is both thanks to its driver and tuning when it is in active mode (it sounds much worse in passive mode, when it's "turned off"), and also thanks to the LDAC Bluetooth Codec which, as far as I know, is as close to lossless streaming quality as we can get.

With that in mind, my advice right now, for those seeking the best wireless sound quality with their IEMs is to buy an IEM that has a removable cable (2-pin or MMCX) and try to acquire a Bluetooth receiver cable that supports LDAC. This should ensure as close to the sound quality of a wired IEM as you can get when playing lossless music. I don't have any particular recommendations for such receives because I'm still using wired IEMs for the most part, but most of the ones I've seen from major brands do not support LDAC so perhaps it is something that we have to wait longer for.

Even if we continue to be forced into wireless headphones, I will not buy any wireless headphones or sources that don't support LDAC in the future. It is that good, in my opinion.

So to answer the question once again: Is it too soon to move to fully wireless IEMs? Yes. Are we there yet? Not quite, at least not with IEMs though in no fault to the IEM themselves, just their receiver chips.

Note: in order to take advantage of LDAC both the receiving and emitting device (your source) needs to support the codec.

Edit: For a general sense of the amount of data streaming each Bluetooth codec supports please refer to to the following image:






Image courtesy of Soundguys. Please note that I don't know almost anything about Soundguys, it was just one of the first references I could find that can visually illustrate the difference in bitrate between different some of the most popular Bluetooth codecs.

Also note that bitrate is not everything. I would rather stream an AAC audio file as it is via Bluetooth than transcode an AAC using SBC.


----------



## keeya

Looks like Bang & Olufsen just announced some new TW pieces:
https://hypebeast.com/2019/5/bang-and-olufsen-e6-e8-motion-earphones-workouts-activities-wireless
and
https://www.bang-olufsen.com/en/earphones/beoplay-e8-motion?variant=beoplay-e8-motion-white

They're also the most expensive from any company coming in at about $390 USD.
Any thoughts on these?


----------



## hifi80sman

keeya said:


> Looks like Bang & Olufsen just announced some new TW pieces:
> https://hypebeast.com/2019/5/bang-and-olufsen-e6-e8-motion-earphones-workouts-activities-wireless
> and
> https://www.bang-olufsen.com/en/earphones/beoplay-e8-motion?variant=beoplay-e8-motion-white
> ...


Interesting.  Looks like basically an "Active" version of the E8 2.0.  B&O retail price is always inflated, but I may consider if they are on sale and if there is a color other than white.


----------



## AtariPrime

keeya said:


> Looks like Bang & Olufsen just announced some new TW pieces:
> https://hypebeast.com/2019/5/bang-and-olufsen-e6-e8-motion-earphones-workouts-activities-wireless
> and
> https://www.bang-olufsen.com/en/earphones/beoplay-e8-motion?variant=beoplay-e8-motion-white
> ...



Early thoughts, strictly based on the advertising.

1) Who still makes corded wireless earbuds...wow.
2) Dang that's a lot of cheddar.
3) Probably should showcase the new versions in black instead of white.
4) Also, probably shouldn't advertise them using a human with a tiny head, they look huge.
5) Uses Bluetooth 4.2...What?
6) Battery around 4 hours...a bit subpar.
7) Only real change from prior version of E8 seems to be Qi charging.
8) Website says they will also come in Black, Natural, Indigo Blue, and Limestone.  Possible they failed to update the specs info from the regular E8.

Verdict, if the specs on the website are correct, more likely to buy the Advanced Model X, Creative Outlier Air, or wait for the new JBLs.


----------



## Griffith (May 9, 2019)

keeya said:


> Looks like Bang & Olufsen just announced some new TW pieces:
> https://hypebeast.com/2019/5/bang-and-olufsen-e6-e8-motion-earphones-workouts-activities-wireless
> and
> https://www.bang-olufsen.com/en/earphones/beoplay-e8-motion?variant=beoplay-e8-motion-white
> ...



They only support AAC codec, at least on the product page. I would not recommend them based on that alone. For the price they should support higher quality codecs.



AtariPrime said:


> 5) Uses Bluetooth 4.2...What?



There is zero difference between Bluetooth 4 and 5 in terms of audio quality. Most of the differences between Bluetooth 4 and 5 are for the Low Power mode which is used by devices that only need to send small amounts of data. What's most important is not whether it's Bluetooth 4 or 5, it's which audio codecs are supported.

Bluetooth 4 and Bluetooth 5 Classic (the mode that is used for audio streaming) are essentially the same thing in terms of sound quality and Bluetooth 5 has backwards compatibility with older bluetooth protocols, so it's not a big deal, at all.


----------



## AtariPrime

Griffith said:


> They only support AAC codec, at least on the product page. I would not recommend them based on that alone. For the price they should support higher quality codecs.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



The difference is exactly as you describe, but it is critical.  The low power mode seems to be essential for longer battery life.  Most new earbuds that use Bluetooth 5.0+ and have the newer Qualcomm chips are getting significantly better range between earbuds (50-100 ft) instead of 30 ft.  Also, their battery life is increasing from 3-5 hrs. to 8-10 hrs.  In short, Bluetooth 5.0 is important.


----------



## Griffith (May 9, 2019)

AtariPrime said:


> The difference is exactly as you describe, but it is critical.  The low power mode seems to be essential for longer battery life.  Most new earbuds that use Bluetooth 5.0+ and have the newer Qualcomm chips are getting significantly better range between earbuds (50-100 ft) instead of 30 ft.  Also, their battery life is increasing from 3-5 hrs. to 8-10 hrs.  In short, Bluetooth 5.0 is important.



The range of a Bluetooth device has a lot more to do with the antenna design than the version of Bluetooth that is being used. Plenty of Bluetooth 5 devices still suffer from connectivity issues. Yes, Bluetooth 5's connectivity is a bit better, but Bluetooth 5 devices with connectivity issues also prove that the protocol alone isn't a silver bullet to fix everything.

From what I understand, most wireless headphones do not use Bluetooth Low Energy mode because I think there isn't an audio-transfer mode for it (correct me if I'm wrong). Low Energy mode was designed for something like a fitness tracker or a sensor that communicates wirelessly. If that is the case, that battery life claim does not apply.

Edit: Wanted to clarify that last paragraph. Yes Qualcomm is making increasingly more efficient chips all the time and yes those do improve the battery life of devices but that's a result of Qualcomm's engineering, not a result of Bluetooth 5. At least when it comes to devices that use Bluetooth's "Classic" mode.


----------



## camberwell (May 9, 2019)

I have just received a set of Creative Outlier Air, and I love the sound and the fit. However, I keep getting regular dropouts from either the L (secondary) bud, or both buds, when connected to my Galaxy S9. It seems like it is losing connection for a fraction of a second, but I can't sem to pin down particualr situations where it happens more than others.
I have had no issues across a wide room, but if I am cycling and my phone is in my trouser pocket then it happens. Bizarrely it can happen when I am looking at my phone in landscape and it is a foot from my face?
The buds are properly paired (I use R as my primary) so I am at a loss to explain this unless I got a dud set. Anyone else having dropouts with these buds? I haven't had a single dropout with exactly the same usage with my QCY T1's....


----------



## Griffith (May 9, 2019)

You don't even need to leave this thread to find examples of Bluetooth 5 iems with connectivity issues, just read the response above this one.

But I was surprised to hear that those Creative IEMs use Low Energy mode and Aptx. I wonder if they are actually using the Low Energy mode or if that's a typo. If they using Low Energy mode that would be an impressive feat.


----------



## AtariPrime

Griffith said:


> The range of a Bluetooth device has a lot more to do with the antenna design than the version of Bluetooth that is being used. Plenty of Bluetooth 5 devices still suffer from connectivity issues. Yes, Bluetooth 5's connectivity is a bit better, but Bluetooth 5 devices with connectivity issues also prove that the protocol alone isn't a silver bullet to fix everything.
> 
> From what I understand, most wireless headphones do not use Bluetooth Low Energy mode because I think there isn't an audio-transfer mode for it (correct me if I'm wrong). Low Energy mode was designed for something like a fitness tracker or a sensor that communicates wirelessly. If that is the case, that battery life claim does not apply.
> 
> Edit: Wanted to clarify that last paragraph. Yes Qualcomm is making increasingly more efficient chips all the time and yes those do improve the battery life of devices but that's a result of Qualcomm's engineering, not a result of Bluetooth 5. At least when it comes to devices that use Bluetooth's "Classic" mode.



It's not something I have looked into deeply, but there seems to be a connection between the new Qualcomm Chips and Bluetooth 5.0 improving the battery life and range of wireless earbuds.  

Creative Outlier Air.  Battery of up to 10 hours on single charge.  Uses new Qualcomm QC302x.  Bluetooth 5.0.  

Mavin Air-X.  Battery of around 8 hours on single charge.  100 ft. range.  Uses Qualcomm QC3026.  Bluetooth 5.0.  

The battery life improvements seem to be directly tied to the new Qualcomm QC51xx and QC302x chips, as they were designed to improve battery life.  Qualcomm claims the chips result in battery life increases of 50%+.

No idea all the reasons, but there are a lot of people talking about the new Qualcomm chips as esssential to increased battery life.  And some claim that dropouts are eliminated by Bluetooth 5.0.  Again, no idea of any of this is true, just passing on what others claim.  Several reviews seem to make the same claims.  Dropouts seem to be a thing of the past on newer models with the most up to date hardware.


----------



## clerkpalmer

keeya said:


> Looks like Bang & Olufsen just announced some new TW pieces:
> https://hypebeast.com/2019/5/bang-and-olufsen-e6-e8-motion-earphones-workouts-activities-wireless
> and
> https://www.bang-olufsen.com/en/earphones/beoplay-e8-motion?variant=beoplay-e8-motion-white
> ...


I can waste money on headphones with the best of them, but i have to draw the line at 350. I just paid 350 for a used focal elear. 350 can buy you a whole lot of headphone.


----------



## hifi80sman (May 9, 2019)

Griffith said:


> You don't even need to leave this thread to find examples of Bluetooth 5 iems with connectivity issues, just read the response above this one.
> 
> But I was surprised to hear that those Creative IEMs use Low Energy mode and Aptx. I wonder if they are actually using the Low Energy mode or if that's a typo. If they using Low Energy mode that would be an impressive feat.


Yes, BT 5 specs lay the foundation for audio over LE.  This is what the QCC5100 Series does.

https://www.howtogeek.com/343718/whats-different-in-bluetooth-5.0/

https://www.qualcomm.com/news/relea...kthrough-low-power-bluetooth-audio-soc-series


----------



## camberwell (May 9, 2019)

Griffith said:


> You don't even need to leave this thread to find examples of Bluetooth 5 iems with connectivity issues, just read the response above this one.
> 
> But I was surprised to hear that those Creative IEMs use Low Energy mode and Aptx. I wonder if they are actually using the Low Energy mode or if that's a typo. If they using Low Energy mode that would be an impressive feat.


I have just been reading https://forums.hardwarezone.com.sg/...-air-truly-wireless-earphones-6001902-45.html and some people that had an early batch (like me I think) have reported that they have had theirs replaced and no longer have this issue, so I will contacting Creative to see what they say....

Edit: the dropouts happen whether I am using aptX or SBC so I'm not sure my issue is just related to BT 5.0?


----------



## Slater (May 9, 2019)

clerkpalmer said:


> I can waste money on headphones with the best of them, but i have to draw the line at 350. I just paid 350 for a used focal elear. 350 can buy you a whole lot of headphone.



Agreed. And they’d be junk in 2 years or less due to the batteries no longer holding a charge...

No to mention whatever technological improvements will be available by then, such as Bluetooth 6.0, wireless charging, 20 hour battery life, and who knows what else.

IMO, unless you’re Jeff Bezos or Warren Buffett, >$350 for TW:


----------



## hifi80sman (May 9, 2019)

Slater said:


> Agreed. And they’d be junk in 2 years or less due to the batteries no longer holding a charge...
> 
> No to mention whatever technological improvements will be available by then, such as Bluetooth 6.0, wireless charging, 20 hour battery life, and who knows what else.
> 
> IMO, unless you’re Jeff Bezos or Warren Buffett, >$350 for TW:


Exactly.  B&O always comes out of the gates with god-awful prices.  $499 for H9i?  $350 for basically the E8 (which is going for around $160-ish, I got it for $149) with a new case?  Also, leather is overrated as a value-added material.  If I can get a 100% leather wallet at Wally World for $8.99 RETAIL, leather and aluminium on headphones do not add that much cost, but for marketing, they add tremendous *perceived *value.  BUT...

As we push forward, the typical consumer becomes more educated and savvy, so they will begin to see the inflated margins some companies charge on their products, especially when it comes to "premium materials".  For example, look at 1More and FiiO, they have some nice stuff but at much lower prices than say a B&O.  Yes, yes, there is "brand value", etc. but you're throwing that down the drain anyway, B&O, when you discount your products $100+ dollars off at a time because they are not selling at their artificially inflated prices.  Obviously, $299 retail for the H4 doesn't pass the supply/demand test, so why not just retail at $199 for the "value line", but keep the price consistent with very minor and infrequent sales (like Bose).  I bet they would have sold many more units by now and kept a better handle on brand value.  Company must be run by Millennials.


----------



## d3myz

Griffith said:


> They only support AAC codec, at least on the product page. I would not recommend them based on that alone. For the price they should support higher quality codecs.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Let's not forget the 4x range you get from BT 5.0 and 2x data throughput capability. I personally won't buy anything that isn't BT 5.0 or newer, especially with the new qualcom chips that are coming to tws. 4.2 will be left in the dust soon and we will be seeing buds that have 6-10 hour battery life possibly as soon as 4th quarter of 2019


----------



## actorlife (May 9, 2019)

BigAund said:


> Has anybody tried the updated Zolo Liberty? The ones with the 100hr case and 8hr playtime?
> 
> I'm looking for something cheap and reliable to use when I go on holiday and long playtime is a must. I have the MTW but its battery isn't great and the case is still prone to the discharge problem despite the new firmware. Any suggestions for long battery life and decent sound?


Try these good reviews and 8hr battery: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07KW1TNSM/ref=emc_b_5_mob_t
These ship in june, so might be worth it: https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/base-the-first-long-lasting-true-wireless-earbuds#/


----------



## hifi80sman

actorlife said:


> Try these good reviews and 8hr battery: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07KW1TNSM/ref=emc_b_5_mob_t


Any good USB C Chi-Fi TWEs you've run across, other than the Anbes 329 (I already have that one)?  You seem to be the thread "Hey, let's spend more money!" guy.  

Elvis is still in the building.


----------



## 511634 (May 9, 2019)

Will be testing this combo out very soon:
Bluetooth transmitter (aptX HD): https://www.amazon.ca/gp/product/B07BQYYDNJ/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?smid=A2YL8CPYSW42I7&psc=1
$90 CDN and 4.4/5 stars with 93 reviews.

Bluetooth receiver (aptX HD and LDAC): https://www.amazon.ca/gp/product/B07FVN14FH/ref=ox_sc_saved_title_1?smid=A2M1T9YSBKVQUY&psc=1
$95 CDN and 4.5/5 stars with 18 reviews.

If we take DAP's out of this then no LDAC transmitters exist yet that I know of. I'm sure very soon that will change. The question is how many people would be able to notice the difference blind testing aptX HD vs LDAC. If you're like me using Spotify Premium @ 320 kbps, aptX HD is as good as it gets.

"Qualcomm created aptX HD specifically for high resolution audio sampled at 24-bit/48kHz in Linear Pulse Code Modulation (LPCM) through its data stream that is capable of 576-kbps. Now, that’s a significant on-paper gain from either aptX or SBC."
https://www.audioholics.com/audio-technologies/bluetooth-audio-guide/page-2

"660kbps LDAC is a close match to aptX HD. LDAC 660kbps comes out ahead at most notes, but the latter manages to keep its very high-frequency noise floor lower. 990kbps does the best overall, but high notes up to 8kHz are unlikely to be perceptibly different at real-world listening volumes."
https://www.soundguys.com/ldac-ultimate-bluetooth-guide-20026/


----------



## actorlife (May 9, 2019)

hifi80sman said:


> Any good USB C Chi-Fi TWEs you've run across, other than the Anbes 329 (I already have that one)?  You seem to be the thread "Hey, let's spend more money!" guy.
> 
> Elvis is still in the building.


Howdy hifi80,
Nothing comes close for fun sounding Anbes 359 yet. It's still my number 1 go to. The Funcl W1($25 idigogo) sound great, but no volume control. The Graphene ones are great too, but leans more to neutral which I also like: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07L9PJJX1/ref=cm_sw_r_sms_apa_i_tfk1CbMY1XBT7
The thing I like about those Anbes is the airyness, soundstage, bass, midrange is good and clear sparkly treble. I have 5 different pairs that sound good, but the anbes is the big step. These are the last pair I got about a month ago. I did post about them when I ordered them. I am impressed with them as well. I paid $30 during the lighting sale: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07L9PJJX1/ref=cm_sw_r_sms_apa_i_tfk1CbMY1XBT7 I'm still waiting to see if they put out a version 2 of Anbes with a 8-15hr battery.  DLR rules. Eat em and smile is my favorite solo album by him.


----------



## AtariPrime

actorlife said:


> Try these good reviews and 8hr battery: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07KW1TNSM/ref=emc_b_5_mob_t
> These ship in june, so might be worth it: https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/base-the-first-long-lasting-true-wireless-earbuds#/



Personally, I am reluctant to buy either one of these.  Largely for the same reason on both.  Who?  Who is Tranya?  Is this a Chi-Fi company?  At first glance they look to have some promise, but the fact that I have never heard of them has me nervous.  And the moment I see indigogo...pass.  Unproven, experimental, may not know what they are doing, and may be out of business in a week.


----------



## actorlife (May 9, 2019)

AtariPrime said:


> Personally, I am reluctant to buy either one of these.  Largely for the same reason on both.  Who?  Who is Tranya?  Is this a Chi-Fi company?  At first glance they look to have some promise, but the fact that I have never heard of them has me nervous.  And the moment I see indigogo...pass.  Unproven, experimental, may not know what they are doing, and may be out of business in a week.


Well with Amazon you could always return them. Another choice If you don't mind 6 hr battery then the Anbes 359 would be my choice and as you may have read many others here like them too. the $40 price tag on these are crazy cheap. Some have said they are better or equal to the Sennheiser TWS.


----------



## Griffith (May 9, 2019)

AtariPrime said:


> It's not something I have looked into deeply, but there seems to be a connection between the new Qualcomm Chips and Bluetooth 5.0 improving the battery life and range of wireless earbuds.
> 
> Creative Outlier Air.  Battery of up to 10 hours on single charge.  Uses new Qualcomm QC302x.  Bluetooth 5.0.
> 
> ...



Did you miss camberwell's post where he complains precisely about dropouts with his Creative Outlier Air IEMS? Bluetooth 5 is good, but it's not a silver bullet but every single time a new Bluetooth version comes out people will shout from the heavens "This is the one that will fix everything!" when it doesn't.



camberwell said:


> I have just been reading https://forums.hardwarezone.com.sg/...-air-truly-wireless-earphones-6001902-45.html and some people that had an early batch (like me I think) have reported that they have had theirs replaced and no longer have this issue, so I will contacting Creative to see what they say....
> 
> Edit: the dropouts happen whether I am using aptX or SBC so I'm not sure my issue is just related to BT 5.0?



The codec has nothing to do with dropouts. My guess is that it's an engineering flaw that they were able to fix or alleviate after the first batch of units. I hope you're able to get a good replacement unit.


----------



## Griffith

hifi80sman said:


> Yes, BT 5 specs lay the foundation for audio over LE.  This is what the QCC5100 Series does.
> 
> https://www.howtogeek.com/343718/whats-different-in-bluetooth-5.0/
> 
> https://www.qualcomm.com/news/relea...kthrough-low-power-bluetooth-audio-soc-series



Very cool, I wasn't aware of this being a thing, was this something that was introduce after Bluetooth 5's announcement?


----------



## hifi80sman

Griffith said:


> Very cool, I wasn't aware of this being a thing, was this something that was introduce after Bluetooth 5's announcement?


Not sure, but at least it creates a larger playground, but obviously, it's up to developers/manufactures to take full advantage of all potential features and benefits.  _All else being equal_, I would take BT 5.0 over 4.2, but the mere mention of BT 5.0 when selling a product, leans more hypebeast over substance.  Design, implementation, and quality wholesale execution is far more important than stats.

For example, my B&O E8 (BT 4.2) get better range with my iPhone Xs Max than some of my BT 5.0 Chi-Fi units.  Again, apples to apples with the only difference being BT version, I'll take BT 5.0 all day, every day.

If I'm looking at more expensive gear, I would look for BT 5.0 to offset obsolescence.


----------



## Chinslide

I find the convenience of wireless is negated by battery life. Don't ever see that changing. 
I've tried several models and I can never get over the fact that at some level the sound must be compressed to get where it's going. In the end, I've spent loads money acquiring a set up that plays music as pleasing as possible, only to move it to my ears via one more process. 
Long way to go.


----------



## 511634 (May 12, 2019)

Chinslide said:


> I've tried several models and I can never get over the fact that at some level the sound must be compressed to get where it's going.



Are you able to tell the difference in blind testing, LDAC or aptX HD vs wired?

I think everyone has their preference of when wireless is a game changer. For any physical activity, going wired(edit: *wireless*) is end game for me, no going back. The freedom it gives being able to run or ride a bike for example is amazing. Most would think sitting at a desk wired would be the way to go. I'm about to test going wireless and if I don't notice a difference wired vs wireless, I don't think I'll go back to wired. I move around at my desk, I don't sit here for hours at a time. I have to get up, go to a printer, reach around my desk to get something, stand up, stretch my legs. Having to take my IEM's in and out especially to get good a good seal is annoying if you have to do it over and over.

Being mobile just casually listening to music for me and I'd assume for most, being wired is a no brainer. But again, everyone using wireless has their own needs.


----------



## hifi80sman

Szarky said:


> Are you able to tell the difference in blind testing, LDAC or aptX HD vs wired?
> 
> I think everyone has their preference of when wireless is a game changer. For any physical activity, going wired is end game, no going back for me. The freedom it gives being able to run or ride a bike for example is amazing. Most would think sitting at a desk wired would be the way to go. I'm about to test going wireless and if I don't notice a difference wired vs wireless, I don't think I'll go back to wired. I move around at my desk, I don't sit here for hours at a time. I have to get up, go to a printer, reach around my desk to get something, stand up, stretch my legs. Having to take my IEM's in and out especially to get good a good seal is annoying if you have to do it over and over.
> 
> Being mobile just casually listening to music for me and I'd assume for most, being wired is a no brainer. But again, everyone using wireless has their own needs.


100%.  To each their own.  If you love the desktop setup and cannot deal with anything else, that's your endgame.  For most, I presume, if you're going to critical listen, you're not going to reach for the Anbes 359, you'll go for one of your high-end over ear cans.  I've never been a black/white kinda cat, there are layers, so if I'm mobile or mobile in the home and I can at least enjoy my music, I'm set.  As long as something can rise to the level of "good", I can roll.  If I want to hear the lip smacks, I'm going wired and not going to be working out at that same time.  There's a time and place.

For example, I prefer brunettes, but I ain't gonna tell that blonde to hit the road.


----------



## actorlife

Szarky said:


> Will be testing this combo out very soon:
> Bluetooth transmitter (aptX HD): https://www.amazon.ca/gp/product/B07BQYYDNJ/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?smid=A2YL8CPYSW42I7&psc=1
> $90 CDN and 4.4/5 stars with 93 reviews.
> 
> ...


These will be dropping soon: https://www.google.com/amp/s/hifitr...dphones-with-apt-x-hd-and-ldac-bluetooth/amp/


----------



## Griffith

hifi80sman said:


> Not sure, but at least it creates a larger playground, but obviously, it's up to developers/manufactures to take full advantage of all potential features and benefits.  _All else being equal_, I would take BT 5.0 over 4.2, but the mere mention of BT 5.0 when selling a product, leans more hypebeast over substance.  Design, implementation, and quality wholesale execution is far more important than stats.
> 
> For example, my B&O E8 (BT 4.2) get better range with my iPhone Xs Max than some of my BT 5.0 Chi-Fi units.  Again, apples to apples with the only difference being BT version, I'll take BT 5.0 all day, every day.
> 
> If I'm looking at more expensive gear, I would look for BT 5.0 to offset obsolescence.



Like I mentioned before in another response, I believe that Bluetooth range has more to do with the design of the device than the version of Bluetooth used. Of course, if all things are equal, a newer version of Bluetooth will have better range, but that's never the case so, in my opinion, it's a mute argument. There's a response just after my original one of someone with a pair of Bluetooth 5 wireless IEMs reporting connectivity issues.

Lastly, while I understand that someone would prefer Bluetooth 5 because of its new features, it should not be because of obsolescence. There's no such thing as Bluetooth obsolescence. Bluetooth is backwards compatible.


----------



## fluteloop

Chinslide said:


> I find the convenience of wireless is negated by battery life. Don't ever see that changing.
> I've tried several models and I can never get over the fact that at some level the sound must be compressed to get where it's going. In the end, I've spent loads money acquiring a set up that plays music as pleasing as possible, only to move it to my ears via one more process.
> Long way to go.




That's why you buy two pairs of whatever you favorite model is and keep swapping every time you hear the low battery warning.   unlimited energy...no problems  !


----------



## DigDub

camberwell said:


> I have just received a set of Creative Outlier Air, and I love the sound and the fit. However, I keep getting regular dropouts from either the L (secondary) bud, or both buds, when connected to my Galaxy S9. It seems like it is losing connection for a fraction of a second, but I can't sem to pin down particualr situations where it happens more than others.
> I have had no issues across a wide room, but if I am cycling and my phone is in my trouser pocket then it happens. Bizarrely it can happen when I am looking at my phone in landscape and it is a foot from my face?
> The buds are properly paired (I use R as my primary) so I am at a loss to explain this unless I got a dud set. Anyone else having dropouts with these buds? I haven't had a single dropout with exactly the same usage with my QCY T1's....


Have you tried to master reset the earbuds? I had an occasion where the left couldn't sync with the right bud. I had them master reset and it kept disconnecting from my phone even when the phone was in front from my face. I master reset them once more and they are fine now. I'm guessing since my home wifi and the earbuds Bluetooth both use the 2.4ghz frequency, master resetting the earbuds will change the channel that it is on and prevent a conflict with the WiFi network. The master reset can be worth a try before changing them.


----------



## Inear

Skullcandy announced new TWS. Looks a lot like Anker ones

https://www.engadget.com/2019/05/09/skullcandy-indy-true-wireless-earbuds-announced/


----------



## galangerz

if anyone's willing to part ways with their sabbat e12 hit me a PM ) Ebay just said that my packaged got lost. offered to let me choose anything else of equal value in their shop for compensation, but I dont want to wait another month for these things.

thanks


----------



## camberwell (May 10, 2019)

DigDub said:


> Have you tried to master reset the earbuds? I had an occasion where the left couldn't sync with the right bud. I had them master reset and it kept disconnecting from my phone even when the phone was in front from my face. I master reset them once more and they are fine now. I'm guessing since my home wifi and the earbuds Bluetooth both use the 2.4ghz frequency, master resetting the earbuds will change the channel that it is on and prevent a conflict with the WiFi network. The master reset can be worth a try before changing them.


Yes, I did a master reset several times. The fact that I get this issue with both buds at the same time and not just the secondary (no matter which bud is the primary), and the fact that my QCY T1's don't do this, leads me to think that it is unrelated to interference and is likely a manufacturing error....


----------



## Caipirina

A while ago I grabbed those 'cheapo' TWS at a MiniSo (Q5, also sold as 'Roman' or 'Smartomi' on amazon) while traveling ... they are not even that bad and they were cheap. But they only came with one set of eartip / wing, which appears to be medium in size and I am now looking around AliX to find the right tips ... also, if anyone here knows about those, are there any other tips that might provide a better seal? I am actually liking that semi open sound sensation I get from those, but would be nice if I could change back and forth.

So far I found THOSE  https://www.aliexpress.com/item/3-P...orts-Bluetooth-Headset-S-M-L/32844896792.html


----------



## DigDub

camberwell said:


> Yes, I did a master reset several times. The fact that I get this issue with both buds at the same time and not just the secondary (no matter which bud is the primary), and the fact that my QCY T1's don't do this, leads me to think that it is unrelated to interference and is likely a manufacturing error....


You can try to do an exchange from creative. The qcy t1 signal is the strongest one I have so far out of all the TWS I own.


----------



## Arthur Li

I have a noob question: in theory, would the clocking precision of BT source impact sound quality of wireless headphones? For example, would a dedicated DAP with Femto-grade oscillators built-in renders a cleaner digital signal (with less jitter) than a smart-phone? Let's assume no SRC/both using same BT codec.

I don't know if it's placebo effect - I "notice" that when using Fiio M6 as source, my Sennheiser MTW sounds a bit less bass boomy & clearer as opposed to when HTC10 is being used.


----------



## actorlife

$12 could be used as a backup while the other ones charges. 4.1 and 4hr battery: Bluetooth Headphones True Wireless Earbuds with Mic in Ear Earphones with Microphone Noise Cancelling with Charging Case for Running Sports https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07DTJR4MW/ref=cm_sw_r_sms_apa_i_PTy1Cb991AEAP


----------



## Caipirina

actorlife said:


> $12 could be used as a backup while the other ones charges. 4.1 and 4hr battery: Bluetooth Headphones True Wireless Earbuds with Mic in Ear Earphones with Microphone Noise Cancelling with Charging Case for Running Sports https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07DTJR4MW/ref=cm_sw_r_sms_apa_i_PTy1Cb991AEAP



It is ridiculous how cheap one can find some TWE these days. Spotted this one which is BT 5.0 (allegedly) and doubles as a 2200mAH power bank. Only found one video on YT about it in which they look incredibly cheap and the guy is complaining that one side does not work (maybe that was his video for the AliX seller  )


----------



## AtariPrime

Chinslide said:


> I find the convenience of wireless is negated by battery life. Don't ever see that changing.
> I've tried several models and I can never get over the fact that at some level the sound must be compressed to get where it's going. In the end, I've spent loads money acquiring a set up that plays music as pleasing as possible, only to move it to my ears via one more process.
> Long way to go.



If you find yourself in a gym, that's where you will miss wireless.  Especially the first time you are lifting a weight and you end up yanking the earbud right out of your head.  It hurts, interupts the flow, and 50/50 you tear the cord out of your earbud.


----------



## Chinslide

fluteloop said:


> time


I get it. That's the ying to that yang.


----------



## hifi80sman (May 10, 2019)

AtariPrime said:


> If you find yourself in a gym, that's where you will miss wireless.  Especially the first time you are lifting a weight and you end up yanking the earbud right out of your head.  It hurts, interupts the flow, and 50/50 you tear the cord out of your earbud.


You got it, AtariPrime (loved that boxing game).

Years ago, I used to use corded earbuds to maintain the best audio quality, but they got snagged so much it became impractical with other solutions out there.  Even the "wireless" earbuds connected by a wire, one side always slipped or they just flapped around and eventually fell out of one ear.  Plus, when I was working out, I just noticed "good sounding music" and was not sitting there thinking about detail retrieval, etc.  If it sounded good, that's all I noticed.  If it sounded crappy, I noticed too, but once it rose to a certain quality level, anything beyond that was imperceptible, given I was engaged heavily in another activity.  Go BIG, or go home.

Shoot, as others here have said, the MW07 and even the MTW, rival decent wired earbuds.  Clearly, all else being equal, wired will give you the best sound, but drivers, acoustic design/housing, tuning, etc. have a larger impact on these sound waves we enjoy so much.  Just ask @Slater, the guy mods prescription pill bottles for use with TWEs (and somehow they sound better).


----------



## AtariPrime (May 10, 2019)

hifi80sman said:


> 100%.  To each their own.  If you love the desktop setup and cannot deal with anything else, that's your endgame.  For most, I presume, if you're going to critical listen, you're not going to reach for the Anbes 359, you'll go for one of your high-end over ear cans.  I've never been a black/white kinda cat, there are layers, so if I'm mobile or mobile in the home and I can at least enjoy my music, I'm set.  As long as something can rise to the level of "good", I can roll.  If I want to hear the lip smacks, I'm going wired and not going to be working out at that same time.  There's a time and place.
> 
> For example, I prefer brunettes, but I ain't gonna tell that blonde to hit the road.



It's interesting that so many on here keep touting the Anbes 359.  Notice, no reputable sites endorse them.  In short, either there are people on here that are doing some guerilla marketing or the Head-Fi hype train has left the building.  There is nothing special about the Anbes 359.  It supposedley has a good sound.  That doesn't change the fact that it is overly large, has middling battery life, and is last year's tech.  Get the Creative Outlier Air, Mavin Air-X, or the consensus best overall true wireless earbuds instead, the Jabra Elite Active 65t.  Its due for an overhaul but still gets lots of awards.  No offense to anyone here, but Gadgeteer, Jim's Review Room, Rizknows, Engadget, Rtings, and thewirecutter, can't all be that far out of touch so as to not even mention them if they were any good.


----------



## albau

AtariPrime said:


> It's interesting that so many on here keep touting the Anbes 359.  Notice, no reputable sites endorse them.  In short, either there are people on here that are doing some guerilla marketing or the Head-Fi hype train has left the building.  There is nothing special about the Anbes 359.  It supposedley has a good sound.  That doesn't change the fact that it is overly large, has middling battery life, and is last year's tech.  Get the Creative Outlier Air, Mavin Air-X, or the consensus best overall true wireless earbuds instead, the Jabra Elite Active 65t.  Its due for an overhaul but still gets lots of awards.  No offense to anyone here, but Gadgeteer, Jim's Review Room, Rizknows, Engadget, Rtings, and thewirecutter, can't all be that far out of touch so as to not even mention them if they were any good.


OK, I thought I'm just deplorable, but turns out I'm disreputable as well. Can't even trust my own ears and tastes, poor sob. Thanks mate  BTW, how reputable is your advice? Also wanted to ask what year's tech is 65t vs 358? About size, I have both 65t and 359 (do you?), and latter buds are much smaller and lighter. Anbes case, yes, is somewhat bigger but magnetic. Soundwise and in connection stability  both are comparable. 65t has an app with EQ and transparency mode. Whether it's worth extra $100 for each particular person is probably not for RTINGS to decide, nor for you.


----------



## korefuji

I think AtariPrime i just a contrarian, he did suggest the MW07's were surfboard sized, so i would take any comment they put forward with a pinch of salt, or maybe a copious amount of it.


----------



## AtariPrime (May 10, 2019)

albau said:


> OK, I thought I'm just deplorable, but turns out I'm disreputable as well. Can't even trust my own ears and tastes, poor sob. Thanks mate  BTW, how reputable is your advice? Also wanted to ask what year's tech is 65t vs 358? About size, I have both 65t and 359 (do you?), and latter buds are much smaller and lighter. Anbes case, yes, is somewhat bigger but magnetic. Soundwise and in connection stability  both are comparable. 65t has an app with EQ and transparency mode. Whether it's worth extra $100 for each particular person is probably not for RTINGS to decide, nor for you.



I have no issues with you or your opinions.  I am more concerned with why there is so much love on here for the Anbes 359.  Is it possible that word has gotten around Head-Fi that they are great and now everyone sings their praises?  Sure.  But is it just as likely than a representative of Anbes is planting some seeds of praise and a few gullible individuals are now parroting the cause?  Happens all the time.  All I know is that the world has never heard of Anbes, the high end review sites have never mentioned them, and at $29.99, the price is a bit too good to be true.  All seems a bit fishy to say the least.  No idea who Anbes is, but at the moment I assume they are either Chi-Fi or a small time independent company.  Either way, not a reliable name.  They could go under in a week.  For many, I understand that price is a factor.  But for my money, I could care less the price.  I am looking for the best earbud regardless of price.  And while it is possible a small unknown manufacturer could produce the best earbud, it is unlikely.  And even if they did, trust is not an easy thing to earn.


----------



## AtariPrime

korefuji said:


> I think AtariPrime i just a contrarian, he did suggest the MW07's were surfboard sized, so i would take any comment they put forward with a pinch of salt, or maybe a copious amount of it.



Hey, you like the MW07.  I get it.  And I'm glad you like them.  I want something smaller, so they are not for me.  My ideal wireless earbud is probably something the size and shape of the Galaxy Buds or smaller.  Think invisible.  Throw in a great (slightly bass heavy) sound, Bluetooth 5.0, a nice Qualcomm 5100 series chip, and 8-10 battery life per charge and I'm there.  $50-500...don't really care about the price too much.


----------



## hifi80sman

AtariPrime said:


> I have no issues with you or your opinions.  I am more concerned with why there is so much love on here for the Anbes 359.  Is it possible that word has gotten around Head-Fi that they are great and now everyone sings their praises?  Sure.  But is it just as likely than a representative of Anbes is planting some seeds of praise and a few gullible individuals are now parroting the cause?  Happens all the time.  All I know is that the world has never heard of Anbes, the high end review sites have never mentioned them, and at $29.99, the price is a bit too good to be true.  All seems a bit fishy to say the least.  No idea who Anbes is, but at the moment I assume they are either Chi-Fi or a small time independent company.  Either way, not a reliable name.  They could go under in a week.  For many, I understand that price is a factor.  But for my money, I could care less the price.  I am looking for the best earbud regardless of price.  And while it is possible a small unknown manufacturer could produce the best earbud, it is unlikely.  And even if they did, trust is not an easy thing to earn.


I think the love comes from price/performance ratio.  Even though some in this hobby have resources, there are others that do not, so they'll be *thrilled *if they don't have to spend $100+ for legitimately good sound (I got mine for $32, no tax).  Are they the best I have?  No, of course not, but for the price, they sound good, they are actually quite small, have AAC, and I don't have to be paranoid about wearing them out (getting stolen, breaking, losing them, etc).  The sound signature favors the low-end, but clarity is still good enough to be enjoyable.  Compared to the other 5 Chi-Fi TWEs I have, they and the "Reserwa" are the only ones that have AAC, but the problem with the Reserwa, is the very sensitive driver flex.  It's like a crinkle fest when touched, and yes, they have touch controls.  LOL!  I have zero driver flex issues with the Anbes 359.  They do so much right at a low price.  They are, however, slippery as hell.


----------



## FYLegend (May 10, 2019)

Arthur Li said:


> I have a noob question: in theory, would the clocking precision of BT source impact sound quality of wireless headphones? For example, would a dedicated DAP with Femto-grade oscillators built-in renders a cleaner digital signal (with less jitter) than a smart-phone? Let's assume no SRC/both using same BT codec.
> 
> I don't know if it's placebo effect - I "notice" that when using Fiio M6 as source, my Sennheiser MTW sounds a bit less bass boomy & clearer as opposed to when HTC10 is being used.


I've been wondering how much codec and modem implementation affects sound quality.  SBC on the Note 9 sounds poor at higher volumes with the Jabra 65t and Astrotec S60, but they sound considerably cleaner with my laptop, though a tad more distorted than AAC off my phone. As far as I can tell the laptops modem (Intel AC 9560) doesn't support AAC.

After some further testing it seems the Galaxy Note 9 suffers from a bit of a "death grip" and covering my phone on the top-left corner increases the chance of cut-outs for the Astrotec S60. I was able to listen to it without any cutouts on a 50-minute train ride, although I still get occasional cut-outs usually over 15 minutes (perhaps due to poorer mobile or Wifi reception around my house). What is a more apparent issue is the battery life which is only 3 hours and seemingly less if I use AAC. This is improved to 4 hours in the BT 5.0 version.

Is there a TWS where the sound just shuts off instead of giving an obnoxious "low battery" warning? I was napping when my S60 woke me up with "battery low".


----------



## AtariPrime

hifi80sman said:


>



So what are your favorites out of the bunch for comfort, sound quality, and overall quality?


----------



## Slater

Anyone heard anything about Xiaomi Airdots Pro?


----------



## hifi80sman

AtariPrime said:


> So what are your favorites out of the bunch for comfort, sound quality, and overall quality?


Comfort:  Bose by a long shot.  Even though they stick out, people just accept it because it's Bose, just like they accept the AirPods and their cheesy look.

Sound:  MTW, but Bose a close 2nd.  However, from a pure sound standpoint, I like the MW07 the best and it's 10mm Beryllium drivers.  I would say after the #1 MTW, #2 Bose, and #3 E8, I'd place the Anbes 359 as the best sounding Chi-Fi I have.

Overall:  If I had to pick just one, I'd go for the MTW.  USB C.  Battery is decent enough (never clocked it, but rough use I'd say I get around 4 hours).  Not the most comfortable, but I'd still classify it as "comfortable".  Sounds good enough to move from "good" sound to "enjoyably appreciating" sound.  App is useful for (somewhat) adjusting the sound to your taste.  The dot EQ is a little cheesy, so you can't fine-tune if it were a 10 band EQ.  Case batter drain issue improved, but not completely fixed, with the update.  Mic is OK and improved with the latest update.


----------



## actorlife

AtariPrime said:


> It's interesting that so many on here keep touting the Anbes 359.  Notice, no reputable sites endorse them.  In short, either there are people on here that are doing some guerilla marketing or the Head-Fi hype train has left the building.  There is nothing special about the Anbes 359.  It supposedley has a good sound.  That doesn't change the fact that it is overly large, has middling battery life, and is last year's tech.  Get the Creative Outlier Air, Mavin Air-X, or the consensus best overall true wireless earbuds instead, the Jabra Elite Active 65t.  Its due for an overhaul but still gets lots of awards.  No offense to anyone here, but Gadgeteer, Jim's Review Room, Rizknows, Engadget, Rtings, and thewirecutter, can't all be that far out of touch so as to not even mention them if they were any good.


I was the one who recommended them. People who visited the thread kept asking which TWS is is good in the $30-50 range. For the price they are great. Some people like me would rather buy a couple of pairs for around $130 then pay $2-500 for just one pair. I bet if you heard them you'd be very surprised how good they are. Also the thing is these won't last forever as the battery on chi-fi and those high price hi-fi will run out. Hopefully Slater will come up with a mod to change the battery on TWS.


----------



## chinmie

albau said:


> OK, I thought I'm just deplorable, but turns out I'm disreputable as well. Can't even trust my own ears and tastes, poor sob. Thanks mate  BTW, how reputable is your advice? Also wanted to ask what year's tech is 65t vs 358? About size, I have both 65t and 359 (do you?), and latter buds are much smaller and lighter. Anbes case, yes, is somewhat bigger but magnetic. Soundwise and in connection stability  both are comparable. 65t has an app with EQ and transparency mode. Whether it's worth extra $100 for each particular person is probably not for RTINGS to decide, nor for you.



i never tried the anbes, but i had the Jabra65t once, and comparing it to the chifis that i have (T1C and the Mifo), they both just sound better, have better fit (the 65t is painfully big and looses seal easily in my ears), and better battery life. and all that not considering the price difference.. so the cheap price of the chifi is an added bonus. 

the 65t wins on the ability to connect to 2 devices simultaneously, has a good after sales service and warranty in my local city, and firmware updates support.
but i also dislike the NFMI system that cuts out if i pull the slave one out, and don't even mention about the channel imbalance. it's a widespread problem that jabra could easily reduce by updating the app and include L/R panning, but they never did fix it.


----------



## Slater

actorlife said:


> I was the one who recommended them. People who visited the thread kept asking which TWS is is good in the $30-50 range. For the price they are great. Some people like me would rather buy a couple of pairs for around $130 then pay $2-500 for just one pair. I bet if you heard them you'd be very surprised how good they are. Also the thing is these won't last forever as the battery on chi-fi and those high price hi-fi will run out. Hopefully Slater will come up with a mod to change the battery on TWS.



I’m still collecting anti-matter particles. Once I have enough, I can create a battery that power the TWS for thousands of years.


----------



## hifi80sman

Slater said:


> I’m still collecting anti-matter particles. Once I have enough, I can create a battery that power the TWS for thousands of years.


Make sure La Forge doesn't catch you stealing those particles!  Barclay is already on his naughty list!  But he had fun doing it!


----------



## FYLegend

chinmie said:


> i never tried the anbes, but i had the Jabra65t once, and comparing it to the chifis that i have (T1C and the Mifo), they both just sound better, have better fit (the 65t is painfully big and looses seal easily in my ears), and better battery life. and all that not considering the price difference.. so the cheap price of the chifi is an added bonus.
> 
> the 65t wins on the ability to connect to 2 devices simultaneously, has a good after sales service and warranty in my local city, and firmware updates support.
> but i also dislike the NFMI system that cuts out if i pull the slave one out, and don't even mention about the channel imbalance. it's a widespread problem that jabra could easily reduce by updating the app and include L/R panning, but they never did fix it.


Yeah, in the long run I'm rather disappointed by the Jabras. I also don't know if the left bud hiss and clipping is happening on all devices or only some of them. Not sure about their warranty but it sounds like the imbalance is getting worse. I suspect the driver is "flexed" when it's in my ears and lacking in volume. If I try to push it into my ears more I can hear the volume cut back but then it gradually fades out again.


----------



## clerkpalmer (May 10, 2019)

Received Powerbeats Pro today.  Whether you love or hate Apple, you have to give them a lot of credit.  Their stuff just works.  PB Pro are no exception.  Basically, the combine all the good stuff with Airpods (H1 chip in particular) into a pretty awesome form factor particularly for sports/gym use.  I expected to be wowed for $250 and for the most part they deliver although I think they are probably overpriced by $50. 

Obviously, the H1 integration is awesome if you are on Ios.  9 hour battery life is ridiculous and class leading.  Turning to SQ, this is where they fall a bit short.  First and foremost, they do not sound better or as good as the MW07 or the MTW.  It's definitely a step or two behind in terms of absolute SQ.  Once you get past the big boys, the SQ is up there.  I think they are as good sounding as the best of the rest.  Outside of the MW07 and the MTW, I've been a big fan of the Bose for pure SQ.  I think the PB Pro hang with the Bose and because they offer more isolation, may beat them in certain respects.  As the reviews have noted, they are definitely more balanced that older beats products.  There is plenty of bass but it does not overwhelm and it does not bleed into the mids.  These are forward in your face headphones.  Perfect for the gym or a run.  They are a notch above the Jabra and Sony for SQ.  While I had to sell my Nuarl due to fit issues, these can hang with them as well.  Actually, they remind me quite a bit of the Nuarls. 

I absolutely love the fit.  They are rock solid in your ear.  They do let a little sound in so be prepared for that.  Much less than bose but more than say the Jabras.  They are way sleeker looking than the old powerbeats.  Looks are subjective but I think these work better as gym headphones than all rounders.  I would feel a little awkward rocking them around town compared to something like the MTW or MW07 but they aren't that bad. 

If price is no object and you are on iOS, these are the best TW headphones out there.  They definitely are the gold standard for pushing the TW tech.  They also are the best "gym" headphones I have ever used.  Between the awesome H1 integration, ridiculous battery life, superb fit and better than expected SQ, they blow away the competition.  If you are not on iOS and/or are price sensitive, it gets more complicated.  If SQ is your sole priority, I would spend the extra $50 on the Senns or MW07.  Overall, I am impressed and will be keeping them as my go to workout set. 

As an aside, Apple clearly realizes these things destroy the Airpods and appears to be "under marketing" them perhaps so as not to cannibalize their own product?  Strange.


----------



## zerolight

Thanks Clerk


----------



## Soreniglio

silverfishla said:


> I ordered the Whizzer TP1 but haven’t received them yet.  Will let you know what I think when I get them.  These have a lot  functionality.  They might be good, we’ll see.



Any news about these? I'd like to buy a side pair of TWS to use in all my daily tasks, and these Whizzer TP1 look promising


----------



## BobJS (May 11, 2019)

I'm not a particular fan of the Anbes.  I think the only thing they excel at is their performance/price ratio. If you are strapped for cash, by all means give them a try.  Personally, I've found myself with a rather large collection of TW buds/earphones, and would never use mine for a real listening session.  Every once in a while, I give them a try to see if my opinion has changed, but it doesn't.

I'm not knocking anyone's opinion, just the hype.  If you've got more than $40 to spend, you can probably do better.

Or maybe not.  Maybe they're just your cup of tea.

EDIT:  I just pulled them out again and compared them with the $30 iQute (link below), and found the iQute superior in sound.  Form factor of the Anbes is sleeker, however.  YMMV.

https://www.amazon.com/Wireless-Earbuds-Bluetooth-Headphones-Charging/dp/B07K2PJBZP/


----------



## 40760

Anyone knows if the SoundPEATS are actually rebranded QCY?


----------



## MidSmoothness

I just received the Hoco ES24 (looks like it is the exact same model as the Anbes 360 and a few other brands). Form factor is quite nice,  the charging case is really tiny but has a battery indicator in percentage in it and a 800MaH battery. Hoco did awesome with the packaging, it looks real slick.

The sound quality is meh, it sounds a bit muffled and has an overpowering bass; but with other tips they sound a bit better and are quite solid work-out TWS.


----------



## 40760

BobJS said:


> I'm not a particular fan of the Anbes.  I think the only thing they excel at is their performance/price ratio. If you are strapped for cash, by all means give them a try.  Personally, I've found myself with a rather large collection of TW buds/earphones, and would never use mine for a real listening session.  Every once in a while, I give them a try to see if my opinion has changed, but it doesn't.
> 
> I'm not knocking anyone's opinion, just the hype.  If you've got more than $40 to spend, you can probably do better.
> 
> Or maybe not.  Maybe they're just your cup of tea.



I'm waiting for my set to be delivered sometime early next week. Can't wait to see how to compare against the NT01AX and Outlier Air...


----------



## hifi80sman

clerkpalmer said:


> Received Powerbeats Pro today.  Whether you love or hate Apple, you have to give them a lot of credit.  Their stuff just works.  PB Pro are no exception.  Basically, the combine all the good stuff with Airpods (H1 chip in particular) into a pretty awesome form factor particularly for sports/gym use.  I expected to be wowed for $250 and for the most part they deliver although I think they are probably overpriced by $50.
> 
> Obviously, the H1 integration is awesome if you are on Ios.  9 hour battery life is ridiculous and class leading.  Turning to SQ, this is where they fall a bit short.  First and foremost, they do not sound better or as good as the MW07 or the MTW.  It's definitely a step or two behind in terms of absolute SQ.  Once you get past the big boys, the SQ is up there.  I think they are as good sounding as the best of the rest.  Outside of the MW07 and the MTW, I've been a big fan of the Bose for pure SQ.  I think the PB Pro hang with the Bose and because they offer more isolation, may beat them in certain respects.  As the reviews have noted, they are definitely more balanced that older beats products.  There is plenty of bass but it does not overwhelm and it does not bleed into the mids.  These are forward in your face headphones.  Perfect for the gym or a run.  They are a notch above the Jabra and Sony for SQ.  While I had to sell my Nuarl due to fit issues, these can hang with them as well.  Actually, they remind me quite a bit of the Nuarls.
> 
> ...


Now I have to find a way to convince the Mrs. that I *need* these.  Last time I got something, she was like, "How many headphones do you have?!".  Uh, duh, one for every slight mood differentiation.  These one headphone people are adorable, just so adorable.


----------



## clerkpalmer

hifi80sman said:


> Now I have to find a way to convince the Mrs. that I *need* these.  Last time I got something, she was like, "How many headphones do you have?!".  Uh, duh, one for every slight mood differentiation.  These one headphone people are adorable, just so adorable.



If you have an iPhone, and don’t mind the price, these are a required purchase. Everything AirPods are not.


----------



## silverfishla

Soreniglio said:


> Any news about these? I'd like to buy a side pair of TWS to use in all my daily tasks, and these Whizzer TP1 look promising


I’ve got a notification that they are at the local post office.  I should receive them today or on Monday.  Will let you know how they sound and operate when I get them...


----------



## Soreniglio

silverfishla said:


> I’ve got a notification that they are at the local post office.  I should receive them today or on Monday.  Will let you know how they sound and operate when I get them...



Thanks a bunch dude!


----------



## Caipirina

hifi80sman said:


> Now I have to find a way to convince the Mrs. that I *need* these.  Last time I got something, she was like, "How many headphones do you have?!".  Uh, duh, one for every slight mood differentiation.  These one headphone people are adorable, just so adorable.


 
When I get THAT question I asked the Mrs. “How many pairs of shoes you have?”  ... that usually ends the discussion


----------



## Linkoiram

Has anyone tried the ANBES 358 and the 359 to compare the two? I'm unsure about whether to get the 359s because I don't like the 358 being overly bassy. I'm unsure if the driver is the same for both, but I ordered the 359 in the meantime and we will see


----------



## Slater

clerkpalmer said:


> If you have an iPhone, and don’t mind the price, these are a required purchase. Everything AirPods are not.





hifi80sman said:


> Now I have to find a way to convince the Mrs. that I *need* these.  Last time I got something, she was like, "How many headphones do you have?!".  Uh, duh, one for every slight mood differentiation.  These one headphone people are adorable, just so adorable.



Sigh, I’m sure the counterfeits are already being planned. They counterfeit everything else Beats.


----------



## Slater

Caipirina said:


> When I get THAT question I asked the Mrs. “How many pairs of shoes you have?”  ... that usually ends the discussion



But she NEEDS the shoes to go with that little black dress! And of course a cute matching handbag.

You don’t NEED headphones.

Or at least, that’s their logic.

Haha


----------



## clerkpalmer

Slater said:


> Sigh, I’m sure the counterfeits are already being planned. They counterfeit everything else Beats.


Can’t counterfeit h1 chip to my knowledge.


----------



## Slater (May 11, 2019)

clerkpalmer said:


> Can’t counterfeit h1 chip to my knowledge.



Well, a lot of non/technical people wouldn’t know an H1 chip if it fell onto their head. In their mind, if their phone pairs with Bluetooth and it plays music, it’s A-OK. There’ve been counterfeit Beats Solo 2 and 3 wireless headphones for a while now. Most people don’t even know.

Pretty scary.


----------



## Caipirina

clerkpalmer said:


> Can’t counterfeit h1 chip to my knowledge.



The W1 chip did not protect us from the avalanche of airpods clones. Lots of people want to get a counterfeit to look 'as cool' and they don't care about the technology ...

I never liked the form factor of the airpods, but those powerbeats ... i might at least test them out. If only the case wasn;t that huuuge


----------



## Caipirina

Slater said:


> Sigh, I’m sure the counterfeits are already being planned. They counterfeit everything else Beats.



They have been planned the moment the first rumors were circling ... the first molds have been carved when the first pictures emerged ... they are lightning fast    (see how quickly new iphone cases are being designed based on rumors alone, it's a race)


----------



## clerkpalmer

Caipirina said:


> The W1 chip did not protect us from the avalanche of airpods clones. Lots of people want to get a counterfeit to look 'as cool' and they don't care about the technology ...
> 
> I never liked the form factor of the airpods, but those powerbeats ... i might at least test them out. If only the case wasn;t that huuuge


The case sucks. Not gonna lie. It’s big and doesn’t even feel that nice. Not sure what Apple was thinking on that one. Not a deal breaker for me but for a company that focuses on design, someone was asleep in the boardroom.


----------



## cheesesteak

Hi, i was wondering if anyone has the RHA Trueconnect and a MacBook pro? Cause i was experiencing a high pitch noise at some parts of the audio/video when using the AAC codec but not the SBC codec.


----------



## BigZ12

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/X26...9.0&pvid=d1ed6659-ed27-436c-9340-282586d7a2c6
Anyone tried these? Looks promising... It says that they support AptX too.


----------



## mikp

BigZ12 said:


> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/X26...9.0&pvid=d1ed6659-ed27-436c-9340-282586d7a2c6
> Anyone tried these? Looks promising... It says that they support AptX too.



No apt-x there, just wrong info.  probably Airoha 1526P chip


----------



## hifi80sman

mikp said:


> No apt-x there, just wrong info.  probably Airoha 1526P chip


Have you tried these?  Feedback?  AAC support?  USB C or Micro?

They are also on Amazon for 47.99 after 20% off coupon.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07QLDBSVV/


----------



## actorlife (May 12, 2019)

hifi80sman said:


> Have you tried these?  Feedback?  AAC support?  USB C or Micro?
> 
> They are also on Amazon for 47.99 after 20% off coupon.
> https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07QLDBSVV/


No volume control and no aptx. Nothing about noted about acc on specs. Too bad cause they say 8hr battery on Ali.


----------



## AtariPrime

FYLegend said:


> Yeah, in the long run I'm rather disappointed by the Jabras. I also don't know if the left bud hiss and clipping is happening on all devices or only some of them. Not sure about their warranty but it sounds like the imbalance is getting worse. I suspect the driver is "flexed" when it's in my ears and lacking in volume. If I try to push it into my ears more I can hear the volume cut back but then it gradually fades out again.




Fatal flaw though, earhooks.


----------



## 40760 (May 13, 2019)

The Anbes 359 arrived today. I'm actually very pleased with them as a whole, from the packaging to product QC and price point. The charging case and earpieces are actually smaller than I have imagined and the build quality (though made mostly of polished plastic) are great. There is also this satisfying click to the closing mechanism of the charging case. Not the most beautiful set, but i would say well implemented and most importantly, comfortable to use.

Sound wise they're more comparable to the Outlier Air, which are warmer than the NT01-AX but not as detailed. Somehow the vocals are clear though they are heavier with the bass. Connection wise via SBC is stronger than APTX (on my other TWS) to my laptop which is a plus. I'll have to use and burn them in longer to see if there are any more improvements or changes.

At about $30, they are an easy recommend as a first or spare pair of TWS. 

EDIT: Nice to also note that they charge with USB-C instead of Micro. Also the stock large tips seem to work best for me now.


----------



## chinmie

finally tested the TRN BT20 in a phone call situation (i rarely call, mostly text messaging). i got to say I'm happy with the result. the person on the other end can hear me clearly, and i can talk without raising my voice


----------



## Slater

chinmie said:


> finally tested the TRN BT20 in a phone call situation (i rarely call, mostly text messaging). i got to say I'm happy with the result. the person on the other end can hear me clearly, and i can talk without raising my voice



I’ve made numerous calls with mine, and as you said I’ve had no complaints either. I do have to raise my voice sometimes, but it’s usually only because I’m driving and the environment is noisier.


----------



## hifi80sman

chinmie said:


> finally tested the TRN BT20 in a phone call situation (i rarely call, mostly text messaging). i got to say I'm happy with the result. the person on the other end can hear me clearly, and i can talk without raising my voice





Slater said:


> I’ve made numerous calls with mine, and as you said I’ve had no complaints either. I do have to raise my voice sometimes, but it’s usually only because I’m driving and the environment is noisier.


Do they support aptX or AAC?


----------



## Slater (May 13, 2019)

hifi80sman said:


> Do they support aptX or AAC?



Update: They’re BT 5.0 with AAC.

No aptX, as it uses a Broadcom chip not a Qualcomm.


----------



## BobJS

hifi80sman said:


> Do they support aptX or AAC?



Someone who owns it on Reddit claims it supports AAC.


----------



## Slater

BTW, this Apple dev explains how to verify iOS for codecs used:

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/how...n-ios-device-and-bluetooth-headphones.835289/

I own (2) BT20, but unfortunately no Mac so I can’t verify for myself. So I just have to take the word of the Reddit user and another HeadFi member who said they “verified” it uses AAC.

TRN does not state what codec is used in any of their marketing. So to truly “verify” the codec, you’d have to connect to your Mac or else use the iOS method. This is what I assume those 2 people did.


----------



## assassin10000

@Slater I was able to verify aac option using android and logging the bt.



assassin10000 said:


> For a while now I've wondered what Codec my BT20's were using with my old Samsung Note 4. Unlike newer versions of Android, I don't have the option to select or see what audio codec is being used in developer options (if enabled).
> 
> Downloaded wireshark (it's a free program) and made a bluetooth hci log on the Note 4 to see. Turns out it's using SBC at 328kbs (44.1khz) and further digging to check the SBC bitpool showed a bitpool size of 53 which confirms this.
> 
> ...


----------



## Slater

assassin10000 said:


> @Slater I was able to verify aac option using android and logging the bt.



Awesome, great job!


----------



## chinmie

hifi80sman said:


> Do they support aptX or AAC?



it supports AAC on android, but no Aptx though


----------



## X-Nemesis

Are there any ear hooks usable with the Soundpeats QC32's?


----------



## Edric Li

Anybody tried the Tannoy Life Buds? Looks promising but can't find a review yet.


----------



## LajostheHun

Just got the Mifo O5's  so far it's impressive....


----------



## FYLegend (May 14, 2019)

AtariPrime said:


> Fatal flaw though, earhooks.


What? These don't have earhooks. They're just downright bulky and can hardly be considered "IEMs".

Anyways, it seems with the onset of TWS, casual listeners are back to calling everything "true wireless earbuds" not "true wireless IEMs". Makes it harder to search for things online.

EDIT: Astrotec has posted a new photo of their new TWS case which has linen fabric and metal. I just hope it's not far more pricey than the S60.


----------



## DigDub (May 14, 2019)

Mee Audio X10. Bright sound signature, vocal and mid focused, lean quick bass. Not for bass head. AAC codec on my phone. LED light does not blink when in use. Left is Creative Outlier Air and right is Mee Audio X10. Similar form factor which is very comfortable on my ears. Spinfit cp350 tips works well on them, I get a better fit with the Spinfit tips.


----------



## Tranman409

Does anyone happen to know any similar TWS that has transparent hearing/hearthrough feature. I been addicted ordering TWS earphones but realize that I don't want to disrespect my coworkers by having both earphones in and have them repeat what they say lol. I know I could just use one ear piece for mono but just seeing the options


----------



## clerkpalmer

Tranman409 said:


> Does anyone happen to know any similar TWS that has transparent hearing/hearthrough feature. I been addicted ordering TWS earphones but realize that I don't want to disrespect my coworkers by having both earphones in and have them repeat what they say lol. I know I could just use one ear piece for mono but just seeing the options


Sennheiser, Apple and new beats have this feature. Lots of others as well. Should be easy to find a pair. I’ve found it doesn’t work very well on most.


----------



## Tranman409

clerkpalmer said:


> Sennheiser, Apple and new beats have this feature. Lots of others as well. Should be easy to find a pair. I’ve found it doesn’t work very well on most.



Yeah I have the Sennheiser TWS and it's really sensitive. Too bad I can't adjust the settings but I'm searching for smaller forms and trying to be more discreet about it without looking like Frankenstein lol . I know I can't find the perfect product but my go-to at the moments are Mavin Air-X and the anbes 359


----------



## RobinFood

These days I have been getting irritated by my TWE sets. Maybe I use too many sets with too many different sources (2 TWE sets a dap and a phone), but they have a hard time auto pairing, and manually doing it seems to take forever! I even had to reset completely the Sabbats the other day to get them to pair.

In a rush the other day I just grabbed the ES100 and in a flash it instantly paired to both my phone and dap at once, even though I hadn't used it in weeks.


----------



## albau

Tranman409 said:


> Yeah I have the Sennheiser TWS and it's really sensitive. Too bad I can't adjust the settings but I'm searching for smaller forms and trying to be more discreet about it without looking like Frankenstein lol . I know I can't find the perfect product but my go-to at the moments are Mavin Air-X and the anbes 359


Jabra 65t also has this. And you can config transparency level via the app


----------



## nc8000

albau said:


> Jabra 65t also has this. And you can config transparency level via the app



And Beoplay E8 and Earin M2


----------



## howdy

Anyone hear about the Earin M3 release date? Or any info on it. I will be definitely purchase these when they come available.


----------



## nc8000

howdy said:


> Anyone hear about the Earin M3 release date? Or any info on it. I will be definitely purchase these when they come available.



I’ve not even seen any rumors yet. The only thing I would actually like would be longer battery life, other than that the M2 fullfill all my true wireless needs


----------



## Dcell7

Earin seems to be busy with other things 

https://www.theverge.com/2019/5/10/...n-true-wireless-earbuds-acquisition-cancelled


----------



## hifi80sman

Interesting...seems to tick off most boxes.


----------



## clerkpalmer

hifi80sman said:


> Interesting...seems to tick off most boxes.



At $90, it's probably a good bet.  They left Aptx off I believe and are getting roasted about that.  Soundguys has complained that AAC over Android generally sucks compared to ios.  They posted a cool graph in their powerbeats pro review on the topic.  Drop confirmed it's a new driver set up over the BeFree model that launched as a very mediocre product.  I'm on the fence.  It's a long wait and they could be a lot of compelling options in the second half of the year.  I find that with massdrop stuff you can almost always pick one up in the classified for at or near the massdrop price immediately after launch so committing early doesn't always make sense.


----------



## korefuji

https://drop.com/buy/tfz-x1-bluetooth-iem


----------



## actorlife

hifi80sman said:


> Interesting...seems to tick off most boxes.


If it were 8-10 hr battery/APTX then it'd be worth it especially at that price.


----------



## actorlife (May 14, 2019)

korefuji said:


> https://drop.com/buy/tfz-x1-bluetooth-iem


I like the look of those. Reminds me of the X12 style. No APTX, but at least battery is rated at 7hrs(I'm sure at 50% volume). If they were $50 I'd probably try them out.
Still think these at 50$ are a better option: https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/base-the-first-long-lasting-true-wireless-earbuds#/


----------



## moot11

I just picked up a pair of MW07, i really like them, but when I'm watching YouTube videos on my ipad there seems to be a noticeable lag. Is anyone else experiencing this? 

I hear that lag is pretty common with truly wireless earbuds, but I guess I was just expecting everything to work perfectly due to the steep price tag. I mostly use earbuds late at night as to not disturb my gf, so maybe I should just get airpods, since I'm usually just watching YT videos, netflix, etc. 

I really wanted to love the MW07, but the low battery life and the lag makes me think that I should just get something else. Anyone experiencing lag while watching YouTube?


----------



## rhsauer

FWIW, my daily driver these days is the Syllable S101, which can be had via AliExpress for about $30.  They have aptX, AAC, IPX6, 7-10 hours of battery life on the bud (depending, I suppose, on if your source is BT 5.0), another five? or so charges in the case, dual drivers (a first, I think, for totally wireless buds), better than average outgoing call quality (apparently there are four mics that, as with the Jabras, help reduce outgoing background noise during calls), and a reliable connection (at least with the iPhone XS).  The form factor is a bit strange, but they fit wonderfully with great isolation — and, most importantly, they sound wonderful to my ears.

For comparison, I also have the Sennheiser MTWs, the Jabra 65ts, the RHA TrueConnects, the Anbes 369s, and the MPOW T5s — but the Syllables are the ones I reach for most often.  I just bought (and returned) the Powerbeats Pros — they just didn’t fit my right ear (I tried every tip I have), and since the tips are supposed to sit toward the outside of your ear canal, they provide barely any more isolation than the AirPods.  Since I would have been using them on the subway every morning, they just didn’t work for me.  Very disappointing, because the feature set is cool, and they sounded terrific in a quiet room (for about 10 minutes, until my right ear would start to hurt).


----------



## hifi80sman (May 14, 2019)

rhsauer said:


> FWIW, my daily driver these days is the Syllable S101, which can be had via AliExpress for about $30.  They have aptX, AAC, IPX6, 7-10 hours of battery life on the bud (depending, I suppose, on if your source is BT 5.0), another five? or so charges in the case, dual drivers (a first, I think, for totally wireless buds), better than average outgoing call quality (apparently there are four mics that, as with the Jabras, help reduce outgoing background noise during calls), and a reliable connection (at least with the iPhone XS).  The form factor is a bit strange, but they fit wonderfully with great isolation — and, most importantly, they sound wonderful to my ears.
> 
> For comparison, I also have the Sennheiser MTWs, the Jabra 65ts, the RHA TrueConnects, the Anbes 369s, and the MPOW T5s — but the Syllables are the ones I reach for most often.  I just bought (and returned) the Powerbeats Pros — they just didn’t fit my right ear (I tried every tip I have), and since the tips are supposed to sit toward the outside of your ear canal, they provide barely any more isolation than the AirPods.  Since I would have been using them on the subway every morning, they just didn’t work for me.  Very disappointing, because the feature set is cool, and they sounded terrific in a quiet room (for about 10 minutes, until my right ear would start to hurt).


Definitely looks very compelling for the price.  They basically look to be the same as these guys:  https://www.amazon.com/KNZ-Technology-KNZSNDFLXBLK-Dual-Driver-Headphones/dp/B07JN92X1C/

How's the latency?  Some reviews on Amazon indicate it's not very good.  Any case drain issues (earbuds turn themselves on when the case loses charge)?  Have you confirmed aptX and AAC?  Some Chi-Fi indicate they have one or the other, but they don't.  Since I have Android devices sitting around here (LG G6, Galaxy s8), I check the codec in Developer Options.


----------



## chinmie

rhsauer said:


> FWIW, my daily driver these days is the Syllable S101, which can be had via AliExpress for about $30.  They have aptX, AAC, IPX6, 7-10 hours of battery life on the bud (depending, I suppose, on if your source is BT 5.0), another five? or so charges in the case, dual drivers (a first, I think, for totally wireless buds), better than average outgoing call quality (apparently there are four mics that, as with the Jabras, help reduce outgoing background noise during calls), and a reliable connection (at least with the iPhone XS).  The form factor is a bit strange, but they fit wonderfully with great isolation — and, most importantly, they sound wonderful to my ears.
> 
> For comparison, I also have the Sennheiser MTWs, the Jabra 65ts, the RHA TrueConnects, the Anbes 369s, and the MPOW T5s — but the Syllables are the ones I reach for most often.  I just bought (and returned) the Powerbeats Pros — they just didn’t fit my right ear (I tried every tip I have), and since the tips are supposed to sit toward the outside of your ear canal, they provide barely any more isolation than the AirPods.  Since I would have been using them on the subway every morning, they just didn’t work for me.  Very disappointing, because the feature set is cool, and they sounded terrific in a quiet room (for about 10 minutes, until my right ear would start to hurt).



how's the S101 sound compared to your other TWS? also would you mind taking a picture of it while on the ear? I'm curious about how much it would stick out.


----------



## rhsauer (May 14, 2019)

hifi80sman said:


> Definitely looks very compelling for the price.  They basically look to be the same as these guys:  https://www.amazon.com/KNZ-Technology-KNZSNDFLXBLK-Dual-Driver-Headphones/dp/B07JN92X1C/
> 
> How's the latency?  Some reviews on Amazon indicate it's not very good.  Any case drain issues (earbuds turn themselves on when the case loses charge)?  Have you confirmed aptX and AAC?  Some Chi-Fi indicate they have one or the other, but they don't.  Since I have Android devices sitting around here (LG G6, Galaxy s8), I check the codec in Developer Options.



The Syllable S101s certainly share a form factor and case with the KNZs, but I don't think the innards are at all alike.  The S101s purport to use a Qualcomm 3020 chip, which I think is newer than would have been available to the KNZs.  The S101s don't have built in equalizer options (at least the manual doesn't mention any, and I can't imagine the button presses that would work for that, since all likely button options are already taken).  Some of the reviews for the KNZs are brutal -- particularly around battery life.  I've been using the S101s for over three hours at the moment, and my phone is reporting that they have 80% battery remaining.  That seems normal for them.  I also haven't had issues with the case draining -- but, in full disclosure, I usually plug the case in when I get home.  The Amazon listing for the KNZs is very short on specs, so it's hard to know what you're getting.

Latency on the S101s is a mixed bag, and seems to depend on the app you're using.  YoutubeTV, Netflix and Hulu are all fine -- no noticeable lag.  Similarly, Roku's "Private Listening" feature works well, without lag.  Youtube (as opposed to YoutubeTV) is bad.  I think some apps just correct for latency.

And yes, I can confirm AAC on an iPhone (having checked via the Console app trick on an iMac) and both AAC and aptX, depending on the Bluetooth Explorer settings on the iMac.


----------



## rhsauer

chinmie said:


> how's the S101 sound compared to your other TWS? also would you mind taking a picture of it while on the ear? I'm curious about how much it would stick out.



They sound great to me.  Overall warm sound, great bass, clear treble.  The Sennheisers sound better, but these are very good.  The RHAs are different, not necessarily better -- but it's really a matter of taste.  Also, an IEM's sound is soooo dependent on fit and seal, which is personal to the listener (and the tips being used).  I don't use these for critical listening at home because I have full sized headphones for that -- but for a truly wireless earphone, they more than get the job done.  Again, great isolation (with large tips).

There are lots of pictures, including one in someone's ear, at the UK Amazon site:  https://www.amazon.co.uk/Headphones...s101&qid=1557873833&s=gateway&sr=8-1-fkmrnull

(That Amazon listing claims 12 hours battery life and IPX7 -- that may be overstating things, but I'm not going swimming with them in any event.)


----------



## actorlife

rhsauer said:


> FWIW, my daily driver these days is the Syllable S101, which can be had via AliExpress for about $30.  They have aptX, AAC, IPX6, 7-10 hours of battery life on the bud (depending, I suppose, on if your source is BT 5.0), another five? or so charges in the case, dual drivers (a first, I think, for totally wireless buds), better than average outgoing call quality (apparently there are four mics that, as with the Jabras, help reduce outgoing background noise during calls), and a reliable connection (at least with the iPhone XS).  The form factor is a bit strange, but they fit wonderfully with great isolation — and, most importantly, they sound wonderful to my ears.
> 
> For comparison, I also have the Sennheiser MTWs, the Jabra 65ts, the RHA TrueConnects, the Anbes 369s, and the MPOW T5s — but the Syllables are the ones I reach for most often.  I just bought (and returned) the Powerbeats Pros — they just didn’t fit my right ear (I tried every tip I have), and since the tips are supposed to sit toward the outside of your ear canal, they provide barely any more isolation than the AirPods.  Since I would have been using them on the subway every morning, they just didn’t work for me.  Very disappointing, because the feature set is cool, and they sounded terrific in a quiet room (for about 10 minutes, until my right ear would start to hurt).


Since you have the Anbes 359 is there a big difference in sound? I may get these since it's aptx and 10hr battery. Can you take pics of them in your ears? These are a bargain.


----------



## rhsauer

actorlife said:


> Since you have the Anbes 359 is there a big difference in sound? I may get these since it's aptx and 10hr battery. Can you take pics of them in your ears? These are a bargain.



The S101s sound better to me than the Anbes (which I like).  I'm not great at capturing, verbally, the nuances of sound reproduction (and it's hard to A/B earphones) -- so I'll have to stick with that high-level comparison for now.  Both are good, but the S101s sound better (to me). 

Again, there are lots of pics at that Amazon link, including one in a reviewer's ear.  I'm too vain to post a picture of my own ear on the internet


----------



## Slater

chinmie said:


> how's the S101 sound compared to your other TWS? also would you mind taking a picture of it while on the ear? I'm curious about how much it would stick out.


----------



## actorlife

rhsauer said:


> The S101s sound better to me than the Anbes (which I like).  I'm not great at capturing, verbally, the nuances of sound reproduction (and it's hard to A/B earphones) -- so I'll have to stick with that high-level comparison for now.  Both are good, but the S101s sound better (to me).
> 
> Again, there are lots of pics at that Amazon link, including one in a reviewer's ear.  I'm too vain to post a picture of my own ear on the internet


Thanks for answering quickly. Does it have a good soundstage, clear treble and bass like the anbes? I'm close to buying these, but will wait patiently till the end of the week.


----------



## Caipirina

rhsauer said:


> FWIW, my daily driver these days is the Syllable S101, which can be had via AliExpress for about $30.  ...



This is SO uncanny!
Never heard of those before and last night they popped up on my AliX recommendation page and I started reading about them.
I have been wanting, for some time now, a TWE that does look different than all the others, and the specs on these sounded interesting enough (there is a rather detailed review in Japanese out there, found the link while searching here on head-fi, that reviewer added to his otherwise very positive review that he had some connection issues depending on environment [busy Tokyo city vs. urban neighborhood] but nothing too drastic) ...

Anyways, I ordered them at 30.40$ before I even saw the whole discussion here.

For the ear lovers, I found those 2 images (from AliX and from German amazon)



Now, I am wondering if they fit securely enough to be able to run with them  Guess I will find out.


----------



## rhsauer

actorlife said:


> Thanks for answering quickly. Does it have a good soundstage, clear treble and bass like the anbes? I'm close to buying these, but will wait patiently till the end of the week.



The S101s have clear treble and great (not overpowering) bass, probably a result of the two drivers.  I don't really feel equipped to judge the soundstage v. the Anbes without spending a lot of time A/B'ing them -- and, even then, soundstage on IEMs is, to me, limited.

Thanks, Slater, for posting that picture.  As you can all see, the S101s are not as elegant as, say, the Galaxy Buds -- but I'm thinking the form factor allows for the purported two mic per earphone set up and, accordingly, much better outgoing sound on calls.  The look is, at best, utilitarian chic.  But, hey -- $30, aptX, ACC, IPX7, two drivers, decent mic for TWS, yada yada ...


----------



## rhsauer

Caipirina said:


> This is SO uncanny!
> Never heard of those before and last night they popped up on my AliX recommendation page and I started reading about them.
> I have been wanting, for some time now, a TWE that does look different than all the others, and the specs on these sounded interesting enough (there is a rather detailed review in Japanese out there, found the link while searching here on head-fi, that reviewer added to his otherwise very positive review that he had some connection issues depending on environment [busy Tokyo city vs. urban neighborhood] but nothing too drastic) ...
> 
> ...



I'll be interested in your views, Caipirina, when you receive the earphones.  I also read that Japanese review (or the Google translate version of it), but I had already ordered the earphones at that point.  In any event, I've had relatively few connection issues with them -- no more than with any other TWS.  None are perfect in the jungle of NYC, at least -- and I think it's probably also dependent on the device you're paired with.  The connection on the Powerbeats Pro (when I had them) seemed about as good as any -- but they were paired to an iPhone Xs, and I would expect that connection to be flawless.


----------



## LajostheHun (May 15, 2019)

clerkpalmer said:


> At $90, it's probably a good bet.  They left Aptx off I believe and are getting roasted about that.  Soundguys has complained that AAC over Android generally sucks compared to ios.  They posted a cool graph in their powerbeats pro review on the topic.



Yeah they used 2 phones for their noise test to determine it as fact. There are literally 100's of brands and models out there, so that's a lazy way of doing things even in today's reliance of junk science . Sure in theory Apple should be better since it's their codec and they engineer their phones to be optimal in that regard, also they don't support anything else besides that [and SBC, which is mandated], but even if I took their graph at heart, -50db is still better than the surface noise of a multikilobuck turntables out there, that some "audiophiles" propagate as the pinnacle of sound reproduction. As for latency that has nothing to do with sound, but only relevant when a video is being played alongside, so I'm not sure why they mentioned it in that segment. Anyway I suggest people take SG's scientific efforts with a some grain of salt.


----------



## Caipirina

On the sentiment of TWE getting ridiculously cheap, here two 
sub 15$ items I just came across (how do they suddenly come out of hiding? They never crossed my path before)

Has anyone heard of CBAOOO before? Precious little to find online about.


----------



## DigDub

My collection of TWS earbuds so far. From to left: Creative Outlier Air, Mee Audio X10, Samsung Galaxy Buds, QCY T1C, Mifo O5 Standard, Nuarl NT01AX.


----------



## supertx2

DigDub said:


> My collection of TWS earbuds so far. From to left: Creative Outlier Air, Mee Audio X10, Samsung Galaxy Buds, QCY T1C, Mifo O5 Standard, Nuarl NT01AX.



Nice collection  Which one is your favorite?


----------



## DigDub

supertx2 said:


> Nice collection  Which one is your favorite?


I like the Samsung Galaxy Bud's sound and controls, but they can't be manually turned off or shut down automatically when I don't have the case with me, so the battery runs out. The Creative has a long battery life and controls which I like. The Mee Audio has similar controls and an ok battery life, it is quite similar to the Creative, with the Mee Audio having a much brighter sound. So it's a toss up between the Creative the Mee Audio depending on my mood for a darker or brighter sound signature. I like the sound from QCY, but it does not have volume controls and the battery life is average at about 3.5hrs. The Nuarl has good highs but I find the bass kind of distracting and the size of the buds are big. The Mifo is my least favorite, tiny controls, muffled sounding and the LED keeps blinking even when in use.


----------



## chinmie

DigDub said:


> I like the Samsung Galaxy Bud's sound and controls, but they can't be manually turned off or shut down automatically when I don't have the case with me, so the battery runs out. The Creative has a long battery life and controls which I like. The Mee Audio has similar controls and an ok battery life, it is quite similar to the Creative, with the Mee Audio having a much brighter sound. So it's a toss up between the Creative the Mee Audio depending on my mood for a darker or brighter sound signature. I like the sound from QCY, but it does not have volume controls and the battery life is average at about 3.5hrs. The Nuarl has good highs but I find the bass kind of distracting and the size of the buds are big. The Mifo is my least favorite, tiny controls, muffled sounding and the LED keeps blinking even when in use.



on sound quality and tuning alone, how do you compare the T1C to the Outlier Air?


----------



## DigDub

chinmie said:


> on sound quality and tuning alone, how do you compare the T1C to the Outlier Air?


Both are good in their own ways. The creative has a darker sound signature. The t1c bass hits harder and sounds more airy. Both are good depending on one's preference for a dark or fun sound signature.


----------



## mikp

rhsauer said:


> The S101s sound better to me than the Anbes (which I like).  I'm not great at capturing, verbally, the nuances of sound reproduction (and it's hard to A/B earphones) -- so I'll have to stick with that high-level comparison for now.  Both are good, but the S101s sound better (to me).
> 
> Again, there are lots of pics at that Amazon link, including one in a reviewer's ear.  I'm too vain to post a picture of my own ear on the internet




my pair arrived in country now, going to replace last years 25-30$ bud.

I hope they can be turned off on without the case. Interesting to see how they compare to the mavins.


----------



## Soreniglio (May 15, 2019)

Okay. Today my Creative Outlier Air arrived, and I wanna give my first impressions.

Before I start I want to let you know I am ignorant about earphones, I am no audiophile at all. The best earphones I had in my life were the wired AKG that came with the Samsung Galaxy S8, and the wired headset of Marley, named "Positive Vibrations II".

To me, they sound really really good. I tried them on some chill beats, and the instruments are clearly recognisable, they do not overlap or drown out. The seal is great, they hurt my ears a bit, but that's a problem of mine, my ear canals are thinner than normal. When I put them on, I can't hear anything at all, complete isolation.

The only thing I don't like much so far are the controls, I think I'm more of a touch-controls user. They are a bit hard to press, when I do, the earphones go deeper in my ear, and it's honestly annoying.

There's a tiny bit of latency when I watch vids on YouTube.

Also, when music isn't playing, there's a noticeable background hissing.

I'll let you know after a week of burning in, there's 2 years warranty, right? If I break them or anything, they shall send me a new pair?


----------



## Linkoiram

Received my anbes 359s yesterday, I really like them. One problem is that my chinese foam tips cause one of the earbuds to not clip in to charge very well, unlike the stock tips. Is there a solution to this, or do you have recommended silicone tips to use with these?


----------



## actorlife

Yep foam tips are big to fit in the 359 case. I just use the stock tips as they sound the best to me. The only thing i'd do if you want the foam tips then take them off before charging. Enjoy them.


----------



## Slater

actorlife said:


> Yep foam tips are big to fit in the 359 case. I just use the stock tips as they sound the best to me. The only thing i'd do if you want the foam tips then take them off before charging. Enjoy them.



It’s possible to modify many of these charge cases to accommodate larger tips, assuming you’re handy with a Dremel.


----------



## jant71 (May 15, 2019)

So, Jlab has been busy putting out different form factors and a tweak to the jbuds air...






An answer to the new Beats https://www.jlabaudio.com/collections/frontpage/products/jbuds-air-sport-true-wireless-earbuds

This form factor...
https://www.jlabaudio.com/collections/frontpage/products/jbuds-air-executive-true-wireless-earbuds





and they improved the Jbuds air to answer issues with them. Went to touch control and added some battery...





The first two are $10 more but they have ambient and the charge case gives more battery life totals, 40 and 30 versus the 24+.

The sport and executive versions seems pretty good with the extra battery and ambient settings.
https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0240/9337/files/JBuds_Air_Sport_Manual.pdf?1219
Manual shows they do everything one might want. triple tap left for EQ and right for ambient. Volume is single tap up and down which i like better than the hold type that never works right for just going up a notch.


----------



## actorlife

Slater said:


> It’s possible to modify many of these charge cases to accommodate larger tips, assuming you’re handy with a Dremel.


Not really I'd rather not mod them. I'd rather just take the tips off. I didn't really like the foam tips I bought, so I may buy some other ones that are softer. The ones I got were a bit too stiff.


----------



## AtariPrime

jant71 said:


> So, Jlab has been busy putting out different form factors and a tweak to the jbuds air...
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Not trying to be negative, in fact the form factor for the Air is not that bad.  The problem, and I say this without trying to be an ass, is that they are JBuds...I have tried several pairs in the past and each disappointed me in several ways.  None were comfortable and the sound quality can only be described as harsh at the top end and muddy at the bottom end at the same time.  They were a pain to my ears both physically and audibly. Maybe they have improved, but I can't see giving them another chance.


----------



## jant71

Figure I'd put them out there. You would hope they are improving of course. The only Jlab wireless product I have is a pair of the rewind headphones which I got for free. Love the form factor and the connection is rock solid. They do need some work though esp. the EQ settings tuning and the controls. Perhaps the Sport will be a winner. We will find out. Just need reliable reviews.


----------



## Linkoiram

Slater said:


> It’s possible to modify many of these charge cases to accommodate larger tips, assuming you’re handy with a Dremel.


I'll keep that in mind

Can anyone input on whether spinfit cp100 or spiral dots medium would fit for them? I can check the cp100 later but I do not have any spiral dots. I'm tip rolling right now trying to have a good set of silicone tips for when I don't want to use foams. I am just unsure about what size I want for the tips tbh, the foams I usually use are 12.5 mm to 13.5 mm in width and I alternate between medium and large with those generally, but with the 359 largest tips inlcuded they appear to be about 12mm. My medium spinfits fit well but because I sometimes alternate I might go with medium-large spiral dots, however, those are much harder to get a hold of unless I want to wait for delivery from japan, whereas amazon has mediums prime shipping. Probably going to just go with the medium spiral dots.


----------



## mikp

well, looks like the klipsch t5 will not have the qcc5100 series, but instead the qcc30xx series


----------



## korefuji

mikp said:


> well, looks like the klipsch t5 will not have the qcc5100 series, but instead the qcc30xx series


any word on price and rls date?


----------



## AtariPrime

mikp said:


> well, looks like the klipsch t5 will not have the qcc5100 series, but instead the qcc30xx series



I've read good things about the Qualcomm QC30XX series.  That is what the Mavin Air-X uses, and it boasts some of the best battery life and range on the market.


----------



## mikp

AtariPrime said:


> I've read good things about the Qualcomm QC30XX series.  That is what the Mavin Air-X uses, and it boasts some of the best battery life and range on the market.



i got the mavin, but klipsch said qcc5100 with apt-x hd etc. Makes me wonder if there are issues with the qcc5100 series.


----------



## actorlife (May 15, 2019)

mikp said:


> well, looks like the klipsch t5 will not have the qcc5100 series, but instead the qcc30xx series


When they go on sale for $40-60 in Dec I might pick them up. I'm sure they will be over $150. Edit $199.00 yikes.


----------



## AtariPrime

actorlife said:


> When they go on sale for $40-60 in Dec I might pick them up. I'm sure they will be over $150. Edit $199.00 yikes.



December?  That's a long time...  

Speaking of release schedules, do we have any data for when new models are coming out?  The new JBLs shown off at CES simply are listed as 'summer' the last I saw.  Anything would be helpful, though I fear we are at the mercy of marketing departments and sales figures (I'm looking at you Bose and Jabra).


----------



## nc8000

AtariPrime said:


> December?  That's a long time...
> 
> Speaking of release schedules, do we have any data for when new models are coming out?  The new JBLs shown off at CES simply are listed as 'summer' the last I saw.  Anything would be helpful, though I fear we are at the mercy of marketing departments and sales figures (I'm looking at you Bose and Jabra).



Well after all they are foremost businesses making money so any action will primarily be based on how they believe they can make most money in the best way


----------



## howdy

AtariPrime said:


> December?  That's a long time...
> 
> Speaking of release schedules, do we have any data for when new models are coming out?  The new JBLs shown off at CES simply are listed as 'summer' the last I saw.  Anything would be helpful, though I fear we are at the mercy of marketing departments and sales figures (I'm looking at you Bose and Jabra).


I read yesterday somewhere that they would be released next month.


----------



## typhoon838

Hi guys, 

Looking for a recommendation for a tws pair here. Tried looking through the posts but it's hard to pick things apart.

Sound wise I like deep, strong bass and clear highs, don't really care that much about mids. Looking for something under 100 but under 50 would be even better. Don't care that much about profile, and battery life isn't a huge issue so it's okay if it's just average. Would prefer tips that go in the ear (not airpod style).

Thank ya!


----------



## zerstorer

Consider the Syllable S101, after 50hrs of play they are sounding pretty darn good.


----------



## chinmie

typhoon838 said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> Looking for a recommendation for a tws pair here. Tried looking through the posts but it's hard to pick things apart.
> 
> ...



QCY T1C


----------



## typhoon838

chinmie said:


> QCY T1C



What's a good place to get those?


----------



## Slater (May 15, 2019)

typhoon838 said:


> What's a good place to get those?



Aliexpress, eBay, Amazon

Be aware they’re also sold under the model QCY QS1. It’s literally the same thing.

Also be aware that the T1C is NOT the same as the T1 or T1 Pro.

And the T1C doesn’t have a cover/lid on the charge case. So if that’s an issue for you (is pressing buttons accidentally while in your pocket), then get the T2C model (which is literally the same bud as T1C, but has an upgraded charge case).


----------



## 40760

The right rubber button of my Anbes 359 fell off so I'm now looking for another pair of spare TWS.

Should it be the updated Astrotec S60 or 1More E1026BT...


----------



## Caipirina (May 16, 2019)

Heyo,

has anyone here ever tried one of those 'bullet' shaped TWE? I am just curious if they are as minimalistic as they appear, don't expect much battery life out of those, but if they fit nicely and sound ok I would probably like to have one set of those as a backup / for quick walks. Any recommendations? They are so no-name that I could only find some doing image searches 

While they look pretty identical on all photos (with different cases), in older posts they are allegedly 16mm in diameter (at 5gr weight), while newer ones in the 30$ range claim 14mm (and 3.7gr) ...

My inner voices keep yelling 'those will sound tinny, they will only work for a day, if at all, the battery lasts 15 minutes, this is 2 year old stock people try to sell off!' ... but somehow ... fascinated by small and pocketable stuff





Ouch !


----------



## Caipirina

delete


----------



## zazaboy

hi does anyone here have the whizzer tp1 curious how these sound everyone give good feedback on aliexpress


----------



## fooey

Soreniglio said:


> Okay. Today my Creative Outlier Air arrived, and I wanna give my first impressions.
> 
> Before I start I want to let you know I am ignorant about earphones, I am no audiophile at all. The best earphones I had in my life were the wired AKG that came with the Samsung Galaxy S8, and the wired headset of Marley, named "Positive Vibrations II".
> 
> ...



I tried using my outlier air for the first time this morning in the gym but wasn't able to achieve a good seal, as a result they didn't sound great and I had to crank up the volume.
I'm going to see if I can remedy this problem by trying different tips I have lying around.


----------



## cleg

My video about FlyPods Lite. In short, modern TWS is much better than one I've tried last year


----------



## D1scoDav

Has anyone actually taken delivery of the powerbeats pro yet? the only things i can find review wise online are people comparing them to AirPods. its a pretty low bar sound quality wise in my option.


----------



## rhsauer

D1scoDav said:


> Has anyone actually taken delivery of the powerbeats pro yet? the only things i can find review wise online are people comparing them to AirPods. its a pretty low bar sound quality wise in my option.



I ordered when the ordering went live, received them last Friday, and returned them on Tuesday.  Just couldn't get them to fit comfortably, and they're designed to sit at the outer edge of the ear canal, so they don't isolate very well (albeit a bit better than the AirPods).  Since my primary usage is in and around NYC, including the subway, they just didn't work for me.  They sounded great in a quiet room -- but what's the point of that?  I'm disappointed, because the convenience of the H1 chip can't be replicated, and the Class 1 range was amazing.


----------



## albau

Caipirina said:


> Heyo,
> 
> has anyone here ever tried one of those 'bullet' shaped TWE? I am just curious if they are as minimalistic as they appear, don't expect much battery life out of those, but if they fit nicely and sound ok I would probably like to have one set of those as a backup / for quick walks. Any recommendations? They are so no-name that I could only find some doing image searches
> 
> ...


These look like Rowkin. Look at Rowkin.com or search Amazon. Would be really surprised if they sound any good.


----------



## D1scoDav (May 16, 2019)

rhsauer said:


> I ordered when the ordering went live, received them last Friday, and returned them on Tuesday.  Just couldn't get them to fit comfortably, and they're designed to sit at the outer edge of the ear canal, so they don't isolate very well (albeit a bit better than the AirPods).  Since my primary usage is in and around NYC, including the subway, they just didn't work for me.  They sounded great in a quiet room -- but what's the point of that?  I'm disappointed, because the convenience of the H1 chip can't be replicated, and the Class 1 range was amazing.




I had a pair of the first ones that came out years and years ago, i didnt like the way that they sat just outside the ear canal. Everything i've read about them goes on about the isolation, so i thought they would be different to what i'd tried before. thats really disappointed me as well.


----------



## Soreniglio

Let me update the situation with my Creative Outlier Air:

The left bud stopped working as expected. Sound is very soft and muffled compared to the right one. I tried to un-pair, re-pair, master reset several times, but it seems there is nothing to do to have that fixed.

I contacted the support team already. They were very swift and agreed to change my pair after few hours since I sent the request. 

You'll be hearing more from me in probably three weeks.

This all happened today, after I left them charging overnight.


----------



## jasonb

Got the Galaxy Buds yesterday. On the "clear" EQ setting they actually sound pretty neutral. I'm liking what I'm hearing.


----------



## RobinFood

New buds popped up on e-earphone. Sporting a QCC3020 chip, they have aptx, 13mm drivers, and 20 hours of battery life...but they don't have a charging case! It seems to come with a split micro usb to charge both buds at the same time? Guess they are not water proof. They look a little big, too...anyways, it's something new-ish...

https://www.e-earphone.jp/shopdetail/000000238842/


----------



## Slater

RobinFood said:


> New buds popped up on e-earphone. Sporting a QCC3020 chip, they have aptx, 13mm drivers, and 20 hours of battery life...but they don't have a charging case! It seems to come with a split micro usb to charge both buds at the same time? Guess they are not water proof. They look a little big, too...anyways, it's something new-ish...
> 
> https://www.e-earphone.jp/shopdetail/000000238842/



Very retro design. Kind of a circa-1998-2003 Bluetooth 2.0 headset look.

Just joking around. The specs look good. But I can already hear people complaining about having to charge them with a split microUSB cable...


----------



## Soreniglio

In the meanwhile, can you guys suggest me anything in the lower end of TWS? Something *really *budget price, but that is reliable and quite neutral sounding. I heard that Tiso I4 rock in that. Is that so?


----------



## Caipirina

So, my Jabra Elite Sport seem to be really dead by now ... I loved them when they were working and as long as that one pair of included mem-foam tips in my size was not broken .. in the end, I had not used them for over a year and now they won't charge at all ... 

I really liked how they sat in my ears, that matte-runner material and so far I only see the Havit G1 that look a bit like that ... but I am a bit mixed about what I am reading so far (i.e. proper seal, sound muddy?) ... is there anything else out there? I keep scrolling through AliX (wishing there was a filter for 'no airpod clones pls') ...  so, I ask you fine people


----------



## Caipirina

albau said:


> These look like Rowkin.  ...



Perfect! Your response helped me to find a treasure trove of (very very mixed) reviews to make up a better picture.

Yeah, rather not those guys. Pairing and connection seems to be the main issue.


----------



## Soreniglio

Also, anyone tried Ticpods or the new Skullcandy Indy? Still looking for anybody who could review Whizzer TP1


----------



## actorlife

palestofwhite said:


> The right rubber button of my Anbes 359 fell off so I'm now looking for another pair of spare TWS.
> 
> Should it be the updated Astrotec S60 or 1More E1026BT...


Why not send the anbes back and get a new pair? Another option would be these, which I really like and own. Neutral and clear treble and real bass no bump: https://www.amazon.com/【Upgraded-Ca...ords=Honshoop&qid=1558021366&s=gateway&sr=8-3


----------



## DigDub

New Creative Outlier Air Gold. 14 hours per charge and 2 sizes of eartips.

https://sg.creative.com/p/headphones-headsets/creative-outlier-gold


----------



## 40760

actorlife said:


> Why not send the anbes back and get a new pair? Another option would be these, which I really like and own. Neutral and clear treble and real bass no bump: https://www.amazon.com/【Upgraded-Cancelling-HonShoop-Lightweight-Headphones/dp/B07L9PJJX1/ref=sr_1_3?keywords=Honshoop&qid=1558021366&s=gateway&sr=8-3


 They refunded me. Guess I should be getting the new Outlier Air...


----------



## actorlife

Seems like local Walmart has alot of cheap options and like Amazon can be returned for a refund in person: https://www.walmart.com/search/?cat_id=0&query=truly+wireless+earphones


----------



## 40760

DigDub said:


> New Creative Outlier Air Gold. 14 hours per charge and 2 sizes of eartips.
> 
> https://sg.creative.com/p/headphones-headsets/creative-outlier-gold


Are you getting a pair as well? I'm very likely going to but wondering if there's promo code for the upcoming CEE...


----------



## actorlife (May 16, 2019)

palestofwhite said:


> They refunded me. Guess I should be getting the new Outlier Air...


You might consider these. Aptx, AAC, Dual Driver in each bud and 10 hr battery. I might pick them up this weekend from Ali. For $30 not bad at all. They come highly recommended by one of the guys here: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/SYL...1a-400b-8e98-0ac7ed49ec7b&transAbTest=ae803_5


----------



## DigDub

palestofwhite said:


> Are you getting a pair as well? I'm very likely going to but wondering if there's promo code for the upcoming CEE...


Most likely not unless there's a big difference in sound quality.


----------



## david8613

just wanted to give an update on the anbes 359, I have to say this is really an awesome budget head set, battery lasts very long, charging case does not drain like sennheisers, sound quality is very good, they sound much more expensive than 30 dollars. they thing I love most is they stay put in your ear while working out, I lift weights and do cardio, and I sweat a whole lot. a lot of true wireless get start coming out or loosen because of the sweat. not the anbes 359, there is really nothing I can complain about. even the case is nice, no scratches, not a finger print magnet like others. I only wish they had touch controls and ambient mode that would take them over the top.


----------



## Seidi

Which is better — best sound (i like it bassy) / best for sport like running and cycling / best connection (iPhone)

Anbes 359
QCY T1C / T2C

Thanks


----------



## actorlife

david8613 said:


> just wanted to give an update on the anbes 359, I have to say this is really an awesome budget head set, battery lasts very long, charging case does not drain like sennheisers, sound quality is very good, they sound much more expensive than 30 dollars. they thing I love most is they stay put in your ear while working out, I lift weights and do cardio, and I sweat a whole lot. a lot of true wireless get start coming out or loosen because of the sweat. not the anbes 359, there is really nothing I can complain about. even the case is nice, no scratches, not a finger print magnet like others. I only wish they had touch controls and ambient mode that would take them over the top.


Man I agree can't say enough about them. They truly are worth more than the normal asking price of $40-45. With a sale of $30 truly a steal. Man I'm hoping Anbes have another pair coming soon as great as these.


----------



## silverfishla (May 16, 2019)

Soreniglio said:


> Any news about these? I'd like to buy a side pair of TWS to use in all my daily tasks, and these Whizzer TP1 look promising


Hey just wanted to follow up...
Received the Whizzer TP1 and have had a little time to play with them.
I think that they are pretty good.  They sound on par with the Qcy buds but a little tighter.  Good bass, good midrange, nice bit not overdone treble.  They are made nicely and have a soft touch feel on the outside as well as their very nice round case.  It’s a good looking set for sure.  Works well with my iPhone with its touch control and can activate Siri.  No buttons on it, just touch control.  Haven’t figured out what it can control though.  Forward skip, back, Siri.  Sounds pretty good as a phone talking device (stereo hearing).  No APTX but aac.  Wish it had APTX.  Comfort level is good, but might be a challenge for some (this design can be a problem with some). I use the largest tips I can find (large Starlines and large Spin fits work for me, large Final E tips too).  May not stay put with vigorous workout, so I think walking or biking (on smooth surface) is okay.  Took a walk today and had no problems.
Bluetooth range is good.  I can go to the other side of the house and still have a good connection from my phone.


----------



## actorlife

Seidi said:


> Which is better — best sound (i like it bassy) / best for sport like running and cycling / best connection (iPhone)
> 
> Anbes 359
> QCY T1C / T2C
> ...


Anbes has a big soundstage, Bass is not shy, midrange is good, volume control, AAC and sparkly treble highs. I have not heard the QCY, but peeps here like them. I never bought them cause no volume control and a bit treble shy.


----------



## silverfishla

silverfishla said:


> Hey just wanted to follow up...
> Received the Whizzer TP1 and have had a little time to play with them.
> I think that they are pretty good.  They sound on par with the Qcy buds but a little tighter.  Good bass, good midrange, nice bit not overdone treble.  They are made nicely and have a soft touch feel on the outside as well as their very nice round case.  It’s a good looking set for sure.  Works well with my iPhone with its touch control and can activate Siri.  No buttons on it, just touch control.  Haven’t figured out what it can control though.  Forward skip, back, Siri.  Sounds pretty good as a phone talking device (stereo hearing).  No APTX but aac.  Wish it had APTX.  Comfort level is good, but might be a challenge for some (this design can be a problem with some). I use the largest tips I can find (large Starlines and large Spin fits work for me, large Final E tips too).  May not stay put with vigorous workout, so I think walking or biking (on smooth surface) is okay.  Took a walk today and had no problems.
> Bluetooth range is good.  I can go to the other side of the house and still have a good connection from my phone.


Also, Whizzer included a nice big leatherette bag (like the size of a travel case for toiletries). I don’t know why, but they did.


----------



## chinmie

silverfishla said:


> Hey just wanted to follow up...
> Received the Whizzer TP1 and have had a little time to play with them.
> I think that they are pretty good.  They sound on par with the Qcy buds but a little tighter.  Good bass, good midrange, nice bit not overdone treble.  They are made nicely and have a soft touch feel on the outside as well as their very nice round case.  It’s a good looking set for sure.  Works well with my iPhone with its touch control and can activate Siri.  No buttons on it, just touch control.  Haven’t figured out what it can control though.  Forward skip, back, Siri.  Sounds pretty good as a phone talking device (stereo hearing).  No APTX but aac.  Wish it had APTX.  Comfort level is good, but might be a challenge for some (this design can be a problem with some). I use the largest tips I can find (large Starlines and large Spin fits work for me, large Final E tips too).  May not stay put with vigorous workout, so I think walking or biking (on smooth surface) is okay.  Took a walk today and had no problems.
> Bluetooth range is good.  I can go to the other side of the house and still have a good connection from my phone.



does it have volume control?


----------



## Nailzs

I'm a bit surprised no one has talked about this yet.
https://www.nuraphone.com/products/...229564873&mc_cid=5d025cbfd7&mc_eid=6ff73af2e0

*Nura Personalised Sound*
Automatically learns and adapts to your unique hearing, bringing you closer to the music you love.


----------



## silverfishla

chinmie said:


> does it have volume control?


Haha.  I don’t know.  Let me read the manual right now, and I’ll get back to you.


----------



## Caipirina

Nailzs said:


> I'm a bit surprised no one has talked about this yet.
> https://www.nuraphone.com/products/nuraloop?utm_source=nura&utm_campaign=5d025cbfd7-NuraLoop|PreLaunch|Owners&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_81a5aaf4f1-5d025cbfd7-229564873&goal=0_81a5aaf4f1-5d025cbfd7-229564873&mc_cid=5d025cbfd7&mc_eid=6ff73af2e0
> 
> *Nura Personalised Sound*
> Automatically learns and adapts to your unique hearing, bringing you closer to the music you love.


Not fully wireless maybe? They look a bit like the Sony’s I am currently wearing on the treadmill (after my Bose SSF just died after 7K park run)


----------



## Caipirina

May I ask one more time since I did not hear anything.  

Havit G1. Yey or Ney? Coming from Jabra Elite Sport expectations ....

Surprisingly it appears I can get them locally here (Sri Lanka) at about best AliX price (70$). This is tempting. But they won’t let me test them


----------



## FYLegend

Astrotec has given a first look at the S80! Looking good for a "Ture" Wireless ! A little bummed out it doesn't have the diamond design I hoped looking at their sketch though. I'm wondering the price point though considering the S60 is around 75$ USD right now.


----------



## Caipirina

FYLegend said:


> Astrotec has given a first look at the S80! Looking good for a "Ture" Wireless ! A little bummed out it doesn't have the diamond design I hoped looking at their sketch though. I'm wondering the price point though considering the S60 is around 75$ USD right now.



Love the look of the case(s) ... the buds themselves are a bit more of the same-o-same-o  
curious about specs and price


----------



## silverfishla

chinmie said:


> does it have volume control?


It doesn’t have volume control from the unit.  My AP80 has a section in the Bluetooth area where the TW can be set lower or higher.  But, no, none on the Tw itself.  Also, these can go way louder than the QCY.  I can max out those and they can get just a hair louder than I need.  The Whizzer equal volume is about 45 (out of 100) on my AP80.


----------



## Donatello91

clerkpalmer said:


> Generally No. Mw07 comes closest. I do think it outperforms many Wired headsets. I prefer them to 1more triple for example.



Isn't that the Louis Vuitton one?


----------



## chinmie

i was tips searching for the Mifo o5... the o5 standard has a weird case concerning vacuum inside the ears: it sounded clear and open when i pressed it slightly and break the vacuum, but as soon as i let go it will suck the air inside the ears (like plunger effect) and cause the mids to sound choked.. that could make the o5 sounded veiled.

so with the o5 it is better to use eartips that a bit hard, or can "breathe" a little 
the best tips i found so far is foam tips (i think any foam tips are fine) and ortofons, but because of the case design, i ended up having to put on/off the eartips everytime i use it. better sounding, but slightly inconvenient

so i use this eartips i found on AE, so far working nicely.


----------



## chinmie

silverfishla said:


> It doesn’t have volume control from the unit.  My AP80 has a section in the Bluetooth area where the TW can be set lower or higher.  But, no, none on the Tw itself.  Also, these can go way louder than the QCY.  I can max out those and they can get just a hair louder than I need.  The Whizzer equal volume is about 45 (out of 100) on my AP80.



thanks! i think I'm leaning towards the Syllable more, because the longer battery and also the volume control, but i also waiting for the next version of BT20 coming soon, they say that it would have Aptx HD


----------



## RobinFood

Slater said:


> Very retro design. Kind of a circa-1998-2003 Bluetooth 2.0 headset look.
> 
> Just joking around. The specs look good. But I can already hear people complaining about having to charge them with a split microUSB cable...



No, they definitely look like a bad idea about to happen. Ugly and less convenient than any other offerings now. Even a charging stand or Qi charging would make them much better, but at that point why not just make a nice travel case. The only thing I am curious about is the 13mm driver, but I wonder if a relatively unknown will have good enough tuning to make good use of a big driver anyway...


----------



## rhsauer

chinmie said:


> thanks! i think I'm leaning towards the Syllable more, because the longer battery and also the volume control, but i also waiting for the next version of BT20 coming soon, they say that it would have Aptx HD



I noticed the following comments about the Syllable in one of the reviews on AliExpress:  "An absolute steal for the level of sound quality. It has an even frequency response warm balance sounding flatter and smoother than even the creative outlier air which is 3x its price. Just smooth unforced details and a weighty bottom end. Run-in is absolutely required as it sounds a bit rough and boomy when new. After running it in with nordost burn-in tracks overnight for 48hrs. The sound smooths out and the timbres and details starts to emerge. Performance peaks at about 100+ hrs."  

I don't have the Creative Outlier Air, but this reviewer's observations about the benefit of a bit of burn-in on the Syllables are consistent with my experience.  I've had them for just about two weeks now, and they just keep getting better.  I actually ordered a second pair, because ... $30.


----------



## RobinFood

chinmie said:


> i was tips searching for the Mifo o5... the o5 standard has a weird case concerning vacuum inside the ears: it sounded clear and open when i pressed it slightly and break the vacuum, but as soon as i let go it will suck the air inside the ears (like plunger effect) and cause the mids to sound choked.. that could make the o5 sounded veiled.
> 
> so with the o5 it is better to use eartips that a bit hard, or can "breathe" a little
> the best tips i found so far is foam tips (i think any foam tips are fine) and ortofons, but because of the case design, i ended up having to put on/off the eartips everytime i use it. better sounding, but slightly inconvenient
> ...



What happened to the black spray paint?


----------



## chinmie

RobinFood said:


> What happened to the black spray paint?



i peeled it off, i want to repaint it later


----------



## Morbeas (May 17, 2019)

So what's the best chifi unit that has ambient mode? Anbes 359 doesn't, from what I can tell.  :\

Edit: What's the difference between the Anbes 359 and 360 other than the case?


----------



## Caipirina

Never mind my repeated Havit G1 questions  
There was (is?) just now a lightning deal on amazon.de for 35,99€ which is 40$ ... so ... I clicked


----------



## actorlife

Caipirina said:


> Never mind my repeated Havit G1 questions
> There was (is?) just now a lightning deal on amazon.de for 35,99€ which is 40$ ... so ... I clicked


How many TWS do you have now?


----------



## nc8000

Caipirina said:


> Never mind my repeated Havit G1 questions
> There was (is?) just now a lightning deal on amazon.de for 35,99€ which is 40$ ... so ... I clicked



I like the G1 a fair bit but ultimately I couldn’t live with the lack of ambient mode


----------



## Caipirina

nc8000 said:


> I like the G1 a fair bit but ultimately I couldn’t live with the lack of ambient mode



Oh, my least favorite feature   I am ok then 

Thanks for the feedback!


----------



## Caipirina

actorlife said:


> How many TWS do you have now?



Not that many ... 

 

The Sleepbuds don't really count ... the Jabras are dead   those BT20 dongle maybe also only count half?  And that old Sony pair I got for like 10$ ....


.

.


.


.

Now, if you were to ask me how many are in the mail ... I would stare at the moon, whistling innocently


----------



## bheld

Does anyone know if M&D has plans to update the MW07's to address some of the issues in all the reviews like, phone call quality, battery life, and hissing in the left earpod, and an app for your phone, to have additional control??? Can they do a firmware update on these???  With all the great reviews regarding their sound quality and the high price I would hope they will make the appropriate adjustments.


----------



## albau

bheld said:


> Does anyone know if M&D has plans to update the MW07's to address some of the issues in all the reviews like, phone call quality, battery life, and hissing in the left earpod, and an app for your phone, to have additional control??? Can they do a firmware update on these???  With all the great reviews regarding their sound quality and the high price I would hope they will make the appropriate adjustments.


Of the issues you listed I can acknowledge only short battery life. I don't consider not having an app as an issue, more like nice-to-have, especially for something that sounds that good and hardy needs EQ. You can't update firmware (and EQ) on MW07 because M&D decided to use Qualcomm SoC that doesn't allow for this favoring smaller chipset footprint and less energy consumption. Probably that left more space inside a shell fro them to fine-tune acoustic chamber and to use relatively big driver with a stiff beryllium diaphragm. It's all about compromises and what you favor better - sound or features.


----------



## GearMe

albau said:


> Of the issues you listed I can acknowledge only short battery life. I don't consider not having an app as an issue, more like nice-to-have, especially for something that sounds that good and hardy needs EQ. You can't update firmware (and EQ) on MW07 because M&D decided to use Qualcomm SoC that doesn't allow for this favoring *smaller chipset footprint* and less energy consumption. Probably that left more space inside a shell fro them to fine-tune acoustic chamber and to use relatively big driver with a stiff beryllium diaphragm. It's all about compromises and what you favor better - sound or features.



Thank goodness they didn't opt for the *LARGER *_*chipset footprint!
*_
Can't imagine how big they'd be then


----------



## FYLegend

Which TWS are compatible with charging via USB type C to C cables, not just type C to type A? I currently don't have a PD C-to-C charger but noticed the Astrotec S60 doesn't charge using a C-to-C cable through my laptop and have read that this issue is common with Bluetooth headphones that use type C.

How do Anbes 359 sound from a non-AAC BT5.0 source? One thing holding me back from non-AptX TWS is the fact that Windows laptops don't support AAC.


----------



## LajostheHun

DigDub said:


> The Mifo is my least favorite, tiny controls, muffled sounding and the LED keeps blinking even when in use.


Yup all those are true, however the sound can be "fixed" rather nicely with EQ, in my case  built into my music app [Onkyo HF]. After that they sound phenomenal IMO, vocals have awesome clarity, and instruments are nicely separated,very smooth top end, it's low end however is a bit limited no matter what I do [below 40hz or so].


----------



## LajostheHun

chinmie said:


> i was tips searching for the Mifo o5... the o5 standard has a weird case concerning vacuum inside the ears: it sounded clear and open when i pressed it slightly and break the vacuum, but as soon as i let go it will suck the air inside the ears (like plunger effect) and cause the mids to sound choked.. that could make the o5 sounded veiled.
> 
> so with the o5 it is better to use eartips that a bit hard, or can "breathe" a little
> the best tips i found so far is foam tips (i think any foam tips are fine) and ortofons, but because of the case design, i ended up having to put on/off the eartips everytime i use it. better sounding, but slightly inconvenient
> ...


does that fit into the case? I found that many TWE's benefit from third party tips only to find out that they won't fit into the charging case, and switching them each time just not an option for me.


----------



## chinmie

LajostheHun said:


> does that fit into the case? I found that many TWE's benefit from third party tips only to find out that they won't fit into the charging case, and switching them each time just not an option for me.



yup, it definitely fits nicely in the case.


----------



## Nailzs

Caipirina said:


> Not fully wireless maybe? They look a bit like the Sony’s I am currently wearing on the treadmill (after my Bose SSF just died after 7K park run)



Fully wireless like the Nuraphones headphones but a lot more "athletic".


----------



## bheld

clerkpalmer said:


> I went back to MW07. If they didn’t exist, I would think the MTW was the greatest TW on the planet. Damn you M&D with you high price and false battery advertising!  But that sound ...



I really want to get the MW07’s but I hear the phone call quality is poor and I need to use them for business calls. Any recommendations?   Thanks!


----------



## bheld

raheelc said:


> Received my MW07 and they sound awesome! They have a level of detail that I haven't heard from any of the other TW earbuds I've tried! That being said, I am getting some hissing/static in the buds when there is no music playing? Is this normal? Or should i return/exchange them and try for another pair? Also, when using the volume buttons on the earbud, is there any sort of audible sound you hear when you've set the volume to max (like the Jabra's give you that double click sound)?
> 
> Also, regarding the Jabra's, I have the active 65t, and it seems like there may be a slight imbalance in the buds, with the left side being slightly stronger. However, I only notice it when the earbuds say "connected" or "disconnected". While listening to music, I don't perceive any sort of imbalance. However, there is some static/hissing when there is no music playing? Should I return/exchange these as well for another pair and try my luck?


----------



## bheld

I would appreciate any feedback regarding the phone call quality for the MW07’s....given the price I will need to use them for calls also.
Thanks!
Bruceh46@gmail.com


----------



## korefuji

the call quality is poor on the mw07, but they weren't really designed for that, they were more so designed for sound first, and the call quality is an afterthought. IMO.


----------



## FYLegend

As for Astrotec S80 it the first batch will apparently be MicroUSB


----------



## 40760

FYLegend said:


> As for Astrotec S80 it the first batch will apparently be MicroUSB



That's odd because I thought the S60 is already using USB-C? Hmmm...


----------



## korefuji

creative outliers use c-to-c as do the mw07


----------



## FYLegend

palestofwhite said:


> That's odd because I thought the S60 is already using USB-C? Hmmm...


As they have been stocking up on the S60 there might be an issue with stockpiling the Type C IC which still costs more than microUSB.  Some companies like Audio-Technica claim that cost is one reason they stick to microUSB.  As much as I would personally like to see more Type C support, it doesn't benefit older Android or iPhone users much. As mentioned earlier it also seems like the IC chip used in many products like the S60 are only designed for Type C to Type A charging and not Type C to Type C (you'd still need to carry around two chargers and cables for a Pixel 3, for example). Seems like this might be another cost-cutting measure as well.

Astrotec has said they are hoping to introduce Type C to the second batch though.


----------



## DynamicEars

What is better than QCY T1C that still  under $75 with decent battery life?
do we have list of good / recommended chifi TWS at the moment?


----------



## Caipirina

DynamicEars said:


> What is better than QCY T1C that still  under $75 with decent battery life?
> do we have list of good / recommended chifi TWS at the moment?



I'd be very curious about such a current list as well!


----------



## BigZ12

DynamicEars said:


> What is better than QCY T1C that still  under $75 with decent battery life?
> do we have list of good / recommended chifi TWS at the moment?


I have 3 chifi TWS' and I rate them as this:
1. Anbes 359 (good sound, fantastic fit/comfort (for me) with Comply TWS, volume control, good battery, sleek case that fits in my front pocket, stable connection)
2. QCY T2C
3. Tiso i4


----------



## 40760

FYLegend said:


> As they have been stocking up on the S60 there might be an issue with stockpiling the Type C IC which still costs more than microUSB.  Some companies like Audio-Technica claim that cost is one reason they stick to microUSB.  As much as I would personally like to see more Type C support, it doesn't benefit older Android or iPhone users much. As mentioned earlier it also seems like the IC chip used in many products like the S60 are only designed for Type C to Type A charging and not Type C to Type C (you'd still need to carry around two chargers and cables for a Pixel 3, for example). Seems like this might be another cost-cutting measure as well.
> 
> Astrotec has said they are hoping to introduce Type C to the second batch though.




True that it's no major issue for them to go with Micro USB since it's only used for charging, but of course better with the more future-proof Type-C.

Will keep a lookout on this one as I won't be getting the Outlier Gold. I'm hoping the price will be as competitive like the S60.


----------



## RobinFood

Looks like TFZ is releasing a new TWE...I just saw the drop.

https://drop.com/buy/tfz-b-v2-wireless-iem

Last time they just rebranded the Mifo pro, I'm wondering if this is the same deal going on...


----------



## actorlife

*For those who don't use Ali here is another option for the SYLLABLE S101(10hr battery, APTX & AAC) on ebay(Make offer):*
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Syllable-S...43d82ed25:g:xKkAAOSwIBVc286j&autorefresh=true
You're welcome.


----------



## Slater

RobinFood said:


> Looks like TFZ is releasing a new TWE...I just saw the drop.
> 
> https://drop.com/buy/tfz-b-v2-wireless-iem
> 
> Last time they just rebranded the Mifo pro, I'm wondering if this is the same deal going on...



So what’s drop? Like a competitor to massdrop?


----------



## actorlife

Slater said:


> So what’s drop? Like a competitor to massdrop?


Massdrop they just shorten their name.


----------



## clerkpalmer

actorlife said:


> Massdrop they just shorten their name.



New branding. Raised the prices on a lot of stuff.


----------



## eclein (May 19, 2019)

I just got these newer QCYs...
2019 QCY T2C TWS BT5.0 Wireless Earphones
Better specs all the way around....just got them all charged and paired, sound is not bad at all. Not audiophile but getting closer, imaging is excellent. Got mine on AE at LeHe store.....this old ipad mini 2 I grabbed is dying I think so I'll add link if I can later. 5 thumbs up...lol

US $26.93  67％ Off | 2019 QCY T2C TWS BT5.0 Wireless Earphones with Dual Mircophone 3D Stereo Bluetooth Headphones For All Phones
https://s.click.aliexpress.com/e/c29oTrdO


----------



## Slater

clerkpalmer said:


> New branding. Raised the prices on a lot of stuff.



Their prices weren’t that great to begin with. Sorry, some measly 10% off but having to sometimes wait months (and having a crappy return policy) is not impressive.

Why people keep giving massdrop business is beyond me.

You can often buy the non-exclusive stuff elsewhere for the same and often lower price.


----------



## typhoon838

My T2Cs just came in today. Great fit with the stock buds they came with and honestly they sound great.

I guess now I'm just curious how the Syllable S101 and the Anbes 359 sound compared to what I currently have. Can anyone give me a comparison?


----------



## RobinFood

Slater said:


> Their prices weren’t that great to begin with. Sorry, some measly 10% off but having to sometimes wait months (and having a crappy return policy) is not impressive.
> 
> Why people keep giving massdrop business is beyond me.
> 
> You can often buy the non-exclusive stuff elsewhere for the same and often lower price.



It depends on what. Some of their exclusives are nice, and some of the sales were too, like the er4se they have now are more than 100$ off what I can get locally.

But that TFZ is just a few dollars off than on penon audio...

https://penonaudio.com/tfz-b.v2.html


----------



## BigZ12

typhoon838 said:


> My T2Cs just came in today. Great fit with the stock buds they came with and honestly they sound great.
> 
> I guess now I'm just curious how the Syllable S101 and the Anbes 359 sound compared to what I currently have. Can anyone give me a comparison?


In my opinion the Anbes sounds better. More controlled bass (a bit punchier, not that "boomy"?!), and the highs are more detailed. They are also quite a bit louder (on my iPhone X) 
Volume control is also a selling point with the 359s.

I'm also curious of the Syllable and the Creative Outlier Air/Gold. I need a TWS with AptX and longer battery life.


----------



## typhoon838

What exactly is aptx?


----------



## bronco1015

My T1C's were stolen a couple weeks back, so decided to try the Ambes 359. They'll be here Wednesday. FWIW, i'm selling my PSB M4U TW1's if anyone is interested. i don't see a lot of love for them, but they're really comfortable to wear and have a pretty great sound imo.


----------



## nc8000

typhoon838 said:


> What exactly is aptx?



One of the possible compression protocols/codecs used to transmit sound from the source to the phones


----------



## Caipirina

Anyone know anything about these guys? Kind of unique in look. 
But so tricky to find out more, even did a reverse image search on google. 
Has 292 orders, but only 4 non-descript feedbacks ... 


 

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Tru...ones-With-Mic-HD-Handsfree/1000006527777.html


----------



## Dcell7

RobinFood said:


> Looks like TFZ is releasing a new TWE...I just saw the drop.
> 
> https://drop.com/buy/tfz-b-v2-wireless-iem
> 
> Last time they just rebranded the Mifo pro, I'm wondering if this is the same deal going on...



I have ordered these one on Aliexpress. I will probably receive them this or next week. I'll try to give a brief impression when i have the chance to listen to them.


----------



## shandy3

Has anyone successfully used the new Powerbeats Pro with third party foam tips (e.g. Comply) instead of the silicone tips which come in the box? If yes:

1. Which ones have you tried?
2. Which (if any) fit inside the case with the case closed, and without preventing charging?
3. What was the effect on noise isolation compared to the tips in the box?
4. What was the effect on SQ compared to the tips in the box?
5. Any other observations / recommendations

Thanks


----------



## deuter

What is the top sounding true wireless earphone


----------



## Slater

bronco1015 said:


> My T1C's were stolen a couple weeks back, so decided to try the Ambes 359. They'll be here Wednesday. FWIW, i'm selling my PSB M4U TW1's if anyone is interested. i don't see a lot of love for them, but they're really comfortable to wear and have a pretty great sound imo.



Someone stole a pair of used $20 earphones? Geesh

Did they get the charge case too?


----------



## mag8

I am in the market for a pair of true wireless EARBUDS (not iem, as I prefer the earbud form factor), possibly with USB-C connection (so i only need 1 cable to charge stuff).

I can only find the sabbat x12 pro that satisfy my criteria, and I read the fit is not excellent if I don't use silicone earbud "tips".

Any other option i missed?


----------



## RobinFood

mag8 said:


> I am in the market for a pair of true wireless EARBUDS (not iem, as I prefer the earbud form factor), possibly with USB-C connection (so i only need 1 cable to charge stuff).
> 
> I can only find the sabbat x12 pro that satisfy my criteria, and I read the fit is not excellent if I don't use silicone earbud "tips".
> 
> Any other option i missed?



Missing the brand new Mifo 02 (no one I know has tried it yet), 

https://ja.aliexpress.com/item/3301...ail.1000016.1.221870b6poXAs3&isOrigTitle=true

and a good set of earbuds with mmcx like the smabat ST10 paired with the TRN BT20

https://ja.aliexpress.com/item/3295...ail.1000016.1.27e27cb7K1sQXa&isOrigTitle=true


----------



## mag8

RobinFood said:


> Missing the brand new Mifo 02 (no one I know has tried it yet),
> 
> https://ja.aliexpress.com/item/3301...ail.1000016.1.221870b6poXAs3&isOrigTitle=true
> 
> ...




Thanks!

The mifo is the form factor that i am looking for, the mmcx receiver stuff is a bit too clunky for my liking.

Can someone report on the microphone performance of the Sabbat x12 pro? is it usable for business calls (often in not noisy environments)


----------



## RobinFood

mag8 said:


> Thanks!
> 
> The mifo is the form factor that i am looking for, the mmcx receiver stuff is a bit too clunky for my liking.
> 
> Can someone report on the microphone performance of the Sabbat x12 pro? is it usable for business calls (often in not noisy environments)



I don't call often, and when I do I tend to use a wired microphone earbud like the monks because bluetooth bypasses some VoiP apps I use. That being said many people said the Sabbat x12 pro has one of the best microphone you can expect from a TWE set.


----------



## mag8

RobinFood said:


> I don't call often, and when I do I tend to use a wired microphone earbud like the monks because bluetooth bypasses some VoiP apps I use. That being said many people said the Sabbat x12 pro has one of the best microphone you can expect from a TWE set.




That last sentence made my day! Since i don't want to risk it with the mifo, i just ordered the sabbat 

Thanks again


----------



## chinmie

RobinFood said:


> Missing the brand new Mifo 02 (no one I know has tried it yet),
> 
> https://ja.aliexpress.com/item/3301...ail.1000016.1.221870b6poXAs3&isOrigTitle=true
> 
> ...




there's a review up on youtube about it:


----------



## RobinFood

chinmie said:


> there's a review up on youtube about it:




Awesome, sounds like I might be happier saving a little, waiting a little and getting the Smabat s-10 with the Trn bt20 (or the upcoming fostex model depending on the case it comes with...) like that other poster if I want something open that beats the Sabbat x12 in sound quality. For the record, after burn in the Sabbats finally sound pretty good, but they are not as amazing as my other gear.


----------



## srinivasvignesh

mag8 said:


> Thanks!
> 
> The mifo is the form factor that i am looking for, the mmcx receiver stuff is a bit too clunky for my liking.
> 
> Can someone report on the microphone performance of the Sabbat x12 pro? is it usable for business calls (often in not noisy environments)



Hands down the best microphone I have used in any Bluetooth headphone. Be it wired, wireless, full size Bluetooth headset etc. 

I expected the same mic quality from sabbat e12. Unfortunately, it is pretty poor. I like the x12 mic enough that I use it exclusively for my business calls and bought a backup pair. Both x12 works identically.

Even in a noisy environment, though it is not great, it is acceptable


----------



## Caipirina

mag8 said:


> I am in the market for a pair of true wireless EARBUDS
> 
> Any other option i missed?



Well, Apple Airpods (and their many clones) are earbuds ... just saying. 

Personally I am very happy with the BT20 setup and my Rose Masya 


 

I also have the LEZII x12 which I believe are pretty much the same as the Sabbat (with tech from last summer in it) ... Love the soundstage, but would not go running with them as they sit quite loose. Can't say anything about the mic quality as I detest phone calls


----------



## Caipirina

RobinFood said:


> Missing the brand new Mifo 02 (no one I know has tried it yet),
> 
> https://ja.aliexpress.com/item/3301...ail.1000016.1.221870b6poXAs3&isOrigTitle=true



Seeing them for 41$ now ... could be interesting? 

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/mif...arbuds-sports-running-mobile/33008501768.html


----------



## chinmie

RobinFood said:


> Awesome, sounds like I might be happier saving a little, waiting a little and getting the Smabat s-10 with the Trn bt20 (or the upcoming fostex model depending on the case it comes with...) like that other poster if I want something open that beats the Sabbat x12 in sound quality. For the record, after burn in the Sabbats finally sound pretty good, but they are not as amazing as my other gear.



my thoughts exactly. i think it's a step back from the sabbat in terms of battery and functionality, and i doubt it would sound better than the sabbat. like you, I'd rather buy the BT20 and pair it with my Svara or Mmcx Willsound buds.

btw,I've just resprayed my mifo o5, but this time i cover the LED too . the lights are still visible blinking, but a bit more subdued


----------



## MNX1024

For those who has the RHA TrueConnect, may you confirm if yours charges with a Power Delivery(PD) charger? I can't seem to get mine to charge with my PD chargers, which are the Aukey or Google Pixel charger. I can get my none PD chargers to work, where they use Type A to Type C cables.


----------



## actorlife (May 20, 2019)

For those asking for recommendations please scroll back to at least 22 pages back. Seems like alot but it will be quick. Edit I bought the Syllable S101(logo reminds me of SONY) last night from the seller I linked. These are the last TWS I'll be buying for a long while, hopefully these will be like my anbes 359 SQ wise.


----------



## rhsauer

actorlife said:


> For those asking for recommendations please scroll back to at least 22 pages back. Seems like alot but it will be quick. Edit I bought the Syllable S101(logo reminds me of SONY) last night from the seller I linked. These are the last TWS I'll be buying for a long while, hopefully these will be like my anbes 359 SQ wise.



I'll be interested to hear your thoughts about the S101s!  One of the things I like about them is that the stems and the case can accommodate a large variety of tips, so most people should be able to get a really good fit.


----------



## HAMS

Are KZ and TRN the only company selling BT adapter module?


----------



## Slater

HAMS said:


> Are KZ and TRN the only company selling BT adapter module?



You mean an adapter like the BT20? Or a cable style?


----------



## HAMS

Slater said:


> You mean an adapter like the BT20? Or a cable style?



 Either.


----------



## assassin10000

HAMS said:


> Either.



The BT20 is currently the only truly wire free bluetooth adapter on the market. As far as I am aware.

Wired adapters are quite a bit more plentiful. Trn, westone, shure, etc. Plenty of them on the market.

KZ's Bluetooth adapters have thus far all had poor antenna's and therefore connection problems. Their new bt 5.0 I'm still waiting to hear about, but they recalled the initial batch iirc.


Then there are bt adapters like the Radsone ES100 or Fiio BTR3.


----------



## bronco1015

Slater said:


> Someone stole a pair of used $20 earphones? Geesh
> 
> Did they get the charge case too?


Lol.  charge case and all.  at least it was those and not the MTW's..


----------



## Slater

bronco1015 said:


> Lol.  charge case and all.  at least it was those and not the MTW's..



Thieves suck. Hopefully they can’t figure out how to pair them. Or they choke on them. Or both.


----------



## rhsauer (May 21, 2019)

Does anyone know what the differences are between the MIFO O5 and O7 (other than that the color scheme for the O7 seems a bit more muted)?  https://www.amazon.com/Wireless-Bluetooth-Headphone-Earphones-Waterproof/dp/B07MXC8V8C

I’m hoping the nearly 80% price increase is justified by more than cosmetic changes. [EDIT: Now seeing them for merely a 20% price differential.]


----------



## actorlife

Anbes 359 on sale again: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07M8LWN2..._B07M8LWN2G?_encoding=UTF8&smid=AIOA51TE0YIJ0
4hrs left from this posting.


----------



## cheesesteak

MNX1024 said:


> For those who has the RHA TrueConnect, may you confirm if yours charges with a Power Delivery(PD) charger? I can't seem to get mine to charge with my PD chargers, which are the Aukey or Google Pixel charger. I can get my none PD chargers to work, where they use Type A to Type C cables.


Mine has the same issue


----------



## bronco1015

Slater said:


> Thieves suck. Hopefully they can’t figure out how to pair them. Or they choke on them. Or both.


basicly similar sentiments that i hd lol.


----------



## BigAund

I have to say I am impressed with the Syllable s101 - For the price they are a real gem. I also have the Earin M2 and MTW and they are definately not 10 times the earphone! 

Sound is decent with AptX, I've not had any connectivity issues so far, case is small and pocketable, comfort is good, battery seems good. Very impressed


----------



## mikp (May 21, 2019)

Also got the s101, did a quick test against the mavins. Luckily the mavins sound better to me...but the price difference.

The mavins sound wider and sharper and cleaner (more detailed). The s101 is a little boomy and vocals sounds a little closed with example like Bremnes. But the example I noticed best was with Nothing Compares 2U, at a little high volume the s101 was piercing (whatever the term is) and had to turn down the volume to stand it, no such thing with the mavins.

But the s101 sounds good after a quick test. Connection worked outside, but the hiby r3 has weak signal so worked best in shirt pockets.

Also the charging case and buds have no issues with different tips, unlike say my jabra 65.

If these lasts they are a bargain at 30$, compared to 30$ ones from last year. Dont have to baby them like the more expensive tws.


----------



## Slater

@BigAund @mikp How’s the call quality/mic performance on the S101?


----------



## mikp (May 21, 2019)

Slater said:


> @BigAund @mikp How’s the call quality/mic performance on the S101?



I just recorded something over bt with the phone, and it seemed ok. But that was in a quiet room.

unscientific test. earbud next to headphone and a fan

https://gofile.io/?c=Rtqex6


----------



## rhsauer

mikp said:


> Also got the s101, did a quick test against the mavins. Luckily the mavins sound better to me...but the price difference.
> 
> The mavins sound wider and sharper and cleaner (more detailed). The s101 is a little boomy and vocals sounds a little closed with example like Bremnes. But the example I noticed best was with Nothing Compares 2U, at a little high volume the s101 was piercing (whatever the term is) and had to turn down the volume to stand it, no such thing with the mavins.
> 
> ...



Coincidentally, I spent some time listening to the S101s and the Mavin’s just yesterday and came to the opposite conclusion.  Give the S101s some time to burn it — it really seemed to make a difference to me.  Also, I can’t get quite as good a fit with the Mavins.


----------



## rhsauer

Slater said:


> @BigAund @mikp How’s the call quality/mic performance on the S101?



Based on my anecdotal (unscientific) testing, the mic performance seems good.  They purport to have 2 mics in each earpiece to better reduce ambient noise — and I think the form factor (with the slightly descending portion, similar to airpods) may help.


----------



## mikp

rhsauer said:


> Coincidentally, I spent some time listening to the S101s and the Mavin’s just yesterday and came to the opposite conclusion.  Give the S101s some time to burn it — it really seemed to make a difference to me.  Also, I can’t get quite as good a fit with the Mavins.



Found another difference, these does not seem to have the qualcomm  feature like mavins. That both left and right connects to device, and its idependent if left or right is the master. Im not into that burn in thing, but hopefully these does not fail fast.
Easier to use a 30$ device  sweating in the sun, than a 140 one like the mavin.


----------



## rhsauer

mikp said:


> Found another difference, these does not seem to have the qualcomm  feature like mavins. That both left and right connects to device, and its idependent if left or right is the master. Im not into that burn in thing, but hopefully these does not fail fast.
> Easier to use a 30$ device  sweating in the sun, than a 140 one like the mavin.



My facts could be wrong (or out of date at this point), but I believe the Qualcomm “true wireless stereo plus” feature of the QCC3026 chip (used by the Mavin) requires an _updated_ Qualcomm 845 chip — and I think few if any phones currently have that updated chip (and iPhones are unlikely to ever have it).  If that’s correct, the Mavins will function now (and, for most current devices, forever) just like the S101s — one side will be the “master,” rather than each side connecting independently.  I invite all you wireless _mavins_ (with a lowercase “m”) to correct me, please, if that’s not the case.

I certainly agree that if you’re going to wear them sweating in the sun this summer, you should probably use the cheaper device (with a higher IP rating).


----------



## mikp

rhsauer said:


> My facts could be wrong (or out of date at this point), but I believe the Qualcomm “true wireless stereo plus” feature of the QCC3026 chip (used by the Mavin) requires an _updated_ Qualcomm 845 chip — and I think few if any phones currently have that updated chip (and iPhones are unlikely to ever have it).  If that’s correct, the Mavins will function now (and, for most current devices, forever) just like the S101s — one side will be the “master,” rather than each side connecting independently.  I invite all you wireless _mavins_ (with a lowercase “m”) to correct me, please, if that’s not the case.
> 
> I certainly agree that if you’re going to wear them sweating in the sun this summer, you should probably use the cheaper device (with a higher IP rating).



Yes, that true wireless plus I have not seen working anywhere. I have a phone with 845, and tested lot of different ones with the same.

The feature mavin has is that either left or right can be master, depending what connects first.  The s101 seems to be only right as master


----------



## rhsauer (May 21, 2019)

mikp said:


> Yes, that true wireless plus I have not seen working anywhere. I have a phone with 845, and tested lot of different ones with the same.
> 
> The feature mavin has is that either left or right can be master, depending what connects first.  The s101 seems to be only right as master



You’re right.  I was just listening to the S101s and pulled out the right earphone and put it in the case.  The left earphone immediately disconnected and said “pairing.”  I then paired the left earphone to my iPhone and the left earphone began playing (while the right earphone was still in the case, and off).  When I then pulled the right earphone out of the case, the left earphone immediately disconnected, the right earphone connected, and then both earphones began to play.  So each earphone can play independently, but if you are using both earphones the right will apparently serve as master.  What’s the practical implication of this, if any?  Is it a limitation or a feature?  I can’t decide.


----------



## iAmCalm

Caipirina said:


> Not fully wireless maybe? They look a bit like the Sony’s I am currently wearing on the treadmill (after my Bose SSF just died after 7K park run)



Would like to see a review as well.
They’re on sale today


----------



## clerkpalmer

iAmCalm said:


> Would like to see a review as well.
> They’re on sale today


Are you both referring to the mifo o2?


----------



## iAmCalm

clerkpalmer said:


> Are you both referring to the mifo o2?


I was referring to nuraloop
https://www.nuraphone.com/?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIrvrTq46t4gIVEsDICh3eewkrEAAYASAAEgJvdvD_BwE


----------



## Temple (May 21, 2019)

Well I just received my three pairs of Tiso i4 a couple days and 2 out of the 3 have issues. First pair has very little low end and heavy driver flex in one ear. None of the other buds had the driver flex problem. Second pair the left earbud drops out every 10 seconds. One of the three sounds good with no driver flex or cut out. Sounds like a pretty bad QC thing going on over at Tiso.


----------



## Slater (May 21, 2019)

rhsauer said:


> *What’s the practical implication of this, if any?  Is it a limitation or a feature?  I can’t decide*.



My guess?

Thinking about it from an engineering perspective, the majority of the population is right handed. Holding your phone in your right hand, keeping it in your right pocket, etc.

Also, despite a few exceptions,  the majority of countries around the world have left hand drive vehicles. This means your phone will be in the cup holder on the right side, on a dash mount usually located on the right hand side (ie center) of the dash/windshield, etc.

Making the right one the master gives them the best statistical chance of the best connection.


----------



## hifi80sman (May 21, 2019)

cityle said:


> No I would say you're right in your perception. Having tried the Sony WF1000x, WFSP700N, the B&O E8 and now the Audio-Technica ATH-CKR7TW, I find that I have issues in getting a good seal with them. I think due to the nature of truly wireless earbuds, the shape of our ears become more important. Like right now with the ATH-CKR7TW, they are highly dependent on having a good seal to sound good, which requires me to use the 3D loops which creates a tight fit. But then with the shape of my ears, any wings begin to hurt me after 30 min, hence why I'm trying to sell them now.


What's your take on ATH-CKR7TW?  Highs, mids, lows?  Latency issues?  How does the mic work for calls?  I can get them for $199 USD, so I'm considering.

EDIT:  What also makes it compelling, is that is uses the AKM AK4375 DAC, which is also in the Radsone ES100, which I enjoy quite a bit.


----------



## nc8000

Slater said:


> My guess?
> 
> Thinking about it from an engineering perspective, the majority of the population is right handed. Holding your phone in your right hand, keeping it in your right pocket, etc.
> 
> ...



The Earin M2 is a bit different as both sides are master at different times. The first unit you take out of the case and put in your ear becomes master and the second slave. About half way betwen a full discharge they then swap master/slave status to balance battery use on the 2 identical buds. Being identical also means you can put either bud in either ear and you can use just one bud as a mono headset if you want


----------



## Slater

nc8000 said:


> The Earin M2 is a bit different as both sides are master at different times. The first unit you take out of the case and put in your ear becomes master and the second slave. About half way betwen a full discharge they then swap master/slave status to balance battery use on the 2 identical buds. Being identical also means you can put either bud in either ear and you can use just one bud as a mono headset if you want



Pretty cool idea.


----------



## chinmie

nc8000 said:


> The Earin M2 is a bit different as both sides are master at different times. The first unit you take out of the case and put in your ear becomes master and the second slave. About half way betwen a full discharge they then swap master/slave status to balance battery use on the 2 identical buds. Being identical also means you can put either bud in either ear and you can use just one bud as a mono headset if you want



it seems from a review I read the 1more aptx also switch master unit half way like the earin


----------



## galangerz

Just got my Sabbat E12's today and i'm..... disappointed. 

I must've gotten a defective one. There an imbalance of bass where is stronger and deeper in the left one and the right one feels like its not sealed correctly (ive tried multiple tips and tried to get a good seal. it fits greats, but the sound is off) and when i call someone they say theres an echo and an annoying hum sound in the background everytime i talk. 

I guess I should return it or is there anyway of saving it?


----------



## Slater

Kenneth Galang said:


> Just got my Sabbat E12's today and i'm..... disappointed.
> 
> I must've gotten a defective one. There an imbalance of bass where is stronger and deeper in the left one and the right one feels like its not sealed correctly (ive tried multiple tips and tried to get a good seal. it fits greats, but the sound is off) and when i call someone they say theres an echo and an annoying hum sound in the background everytime i talk.
> 
> I guess I should return it or is there anyway of saving it?



Doesn’t everyone say to avoid the E12? I swear I’ve read nothing but complaints about it.


----------



## galangerz

Slater said:


> Doesn’t everyone say to avoid the E12? I swear I’ve read nothing but complaints about it.


surprisingly I've heard a mix of both. I'm gonna return them, maybe I just didn't read enough


----------



## Caipirina

Slater said:


> Doesn’t everyone say to avoid the E12? I swear I’ve read nothing but complaints about it.


 Oh great, another one to add to my 'buyer's remorse' list? 

I could have sworn I mainly read positive hype all over the place ...


----------



## assassin10000

Caipirina said:


> Oh great, another one to add to my 'buyer's remorse' list?
> 
> I could have sworn I mainly read positive hype all over the place ...



That would be the X12 (or rather X12 pro). 

Unfortunately they are easy to get mixed up with only a single letter designation being different.


----------



## srinivasvignesh

Yup. E12 is on my buyers remorse list as well. Connectivity issues, below average sound, drastically different mic (on the -ve side), as compared to the X12 Pro.


----------



## FYLegend

The hype for E12 has been all over YouTube, not on this site or Reddit. Here it seems Anbes 359 has more hype, but not sure what's a fast and reasonable shipment to Canada. I'm also considering Creative Outlier Air and Astrotec S60 5.0 but I did read a Japanese review on Amazon suggesting it still has cut-out issues.


----------



## FYLegend

MNX1024 said:


> For those who has the RHA TrueConnect, may you confirm if yours charges with a Power Delivery(PD) charger? I can't seem to get mine to charge with my PD chargers, which are the Aukey or Google Pixel charger. I can get my none PD chargers to work, where they use Type A to Type C cables.


If you mean not being able to charge via _*Type C to Type C, *_it seemd to be a common issue. I suspect it is meant to cut the cost down by using such a connection, but it is disappointing because it's not as completely "future-proof" for USB type C. I'm still looking for a TWS that does charge with that (I currently don't use it though).

This site mentions RHA, Bluedio and AIAIAI not supporting PD charging in their BT headphones but doesn't elaborate on others in the list.
https://www.reddit.com/r/UsbCHardware/comments/8zb9n4/bluetooth_headphones_w_usbc_charging/


----------



## chinmie

i see that I'm not the only one that had a bad experience with the E12.... still love both my X12 pro though..


----------



## LajostheHun

assassin10000 said:


> That would be the X12 (or rather X12 pro).
> 
> Unfortunately they are easy to get mixed up with only a single letter designation being different.


 the E 12 has quiet a few  great reviews on YouTube, and no I'm not mixing them, since the X12 has that airpod style earbuds vs the E 12's IEM style tip.


----------



## Soreniglio (May 22, 2019)

I am gonna ask this to all those who have a pair of Creative Outlier Air.

They are a pain to put in the ears correctly to me. I assume it's because my ears are shaped in a weird way, possibly.

Everytime I try to fit them correctly without looking at myself at the mirror they stick out clumsily, I have to adjust them through the mirror.

I read what the user guide says about putting them correctly, still it's a pain everytime.

Anyone has the same issues?

(I'm asking this while waiting for my new pair to arrive, today I received an e-mail which stated that they are being shipped and that they will shortly arrive).

Anyways, I have to admit that I was blown away by the SQ, I am using several different earphones in the meanwhile, and I deeply miss my Creative, one day of usage got me good.


----------



## Caipirina

LajostheHun said:


> the E 12 has quiet a few  great reviews on YouTube, and no I'm not mixing them, since the X12 has that airpod style earbuds vs the E 12's IEM style tip.



I recall by the time I made 'that purchase decision' I was also clear as to which one I was getting (and yes, I guess it was based on YT reviews) ... since I do have (and love) the LEZII x12 with their wide soundstage earbud style already. I think what confused me more was the 'pro' moniker for some of them (and the fact that the Mifo O5 also has a pro for their BA model) ... 

Well, let's see when I get them ... 

Until then I feel sorry for Kenneth and hope he can work it out with the seller somehow.


----------



## galangerz

Seems like the seller accepted the return and will pay the return shipping too. 

Thanks for the wishes Caipirina!

Any suggestions on what to replace them with? Definitely something reliable, can make clear calls, long battery long (5hrs + )

thanks guys


----------



## Caipirina

Exotic find of the day. Came across this Indian reviewer on YT and woah, do they have very different looking stuff on amazon India. For example this one, the Boult Audio Airbass Tru5ive.

Not getting too excited, as the reviewer complains about the 'flat' audio ... but there are a couple of things I am really liking and wonder why no other manufacturer has picked up on those, especially the assortment of different colored earhooks & wings .. this for a BT5 and waterproof TWS makes for a really nice work out package ... has anyone seen this model maybe with different name elsewhere? Even reverse image search did not get me anywhere ...


----------



## chinmie

Caipirina said:


> Exotic find of the day. Came across this Indian reviewer on YT and woah, do they have very different looking stuff on amazon India. For example this one, the Boult Audio Airbass Tru5ive.
> 
> Not getting too excited, as the reviewer complains about the 'flat' audio ... but there are a couple of things I am really liking and wonder why no other manufacturer has picked up on those, especially the assortment of different colored earhooks & wings .. this for a BT5 and waterproof TWS makes for a really nice work out package ... has anyone seen this model maybe with different name elsewhere? Even reverse image search did not get me anywhere ...



https://m.aliexpress.com/item/32988993841.html

this one is similar


----------



## assassin10000

Caipirina said:


> Exotic find of the day. Came across this Indian reviewer on YT and woah, do they have very different looking stuff on amazon India. For example this one, the Boult Audio Airbass Tru5ive.
> 
> Not getting too excited, as the reviewer complains about the 'flat' audio ... but there are a couple of things I am really liking and wonder why no other manufacturer has picked up on those, especially the assortment of different colored earhooks & wings .. this for a BT5 and waterproof TWS makes for a really nice work out package ... has anyone seen this model maybe with different name elsewhere? Even reverse image search did not get me anywhere ...



https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Blu...rphone-Wireless-Earbud-Sport/32961819982.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/CYB...o-Earbuds-Waterproof-Headset/32975690998.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Exc...phone-2pcs-Bluetooth-Headset/32975387848.html


----------



## Caipirina

chinmie said:


> https://m.aliexpress.com/item/32988993841.html
> 
> this one is similar





assassin10000 said:


> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Blu...rphone-Wireless-Earbud-Sport/32961819982.html
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/CYB...o-Earbuds-Waterproof-Headset/32975690998.html
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Exc...phone-2pcs-Bluetooth-Headset/32975387848.html



Awesome detective work guys! Thanks! 

Reviews on AliX are still not knocking me off my socks. 

Sometimes I wonder with all the looking and scrolling, how I never came across those guys ...


----------



## BobJS

Soreniglio said:


> I am gonna ask this to all those who have a pair of Creative Outlier Air.
> 
> They are a pain to put in the ears correctly to me. I assume it's because my ears are shaped in a weird way, possibly.
> 
> ...



I got mine on Monday and I'm returning them today.  They include only 1 size (SMALL) of eartip, and anything else makes it impossible to put in the charging case.  The only way I could get a seal (which I assume is necessary to hear any bass at all) was to hold them in my ears while applying pressure.  Even then, I thought the sound was mediocre.

They probably fit someone's ears, but not mine.


----------



## shandy3

shandy3 said:


> Has anyone successfully used the new Powerbeats Pro with third party foam tips (e.g. Comply) instead of the silicone tips which come in the box? If yes:
> 
> 1. Which ones have you tried?
> 2. Which (if any) fit inside the case with the case closed, and without preventing charging?
> ...



I emailed Comply to ask. Short answer: they don't know. Full reply pasted below.


_Hello,

Thank you for your interest in our Comply™ Foam tips for the new Powerbeats Pro earphones. 

At this time, we haven't been able to get our hands on the device. This means that we won't know what fits this device until we order it when it releases. Our hope is our Sport Pro for Beats tips will fit, but they might not because of the charging case. 

You can purchase our SmartCore™ tips. These tips have been tested with every other Beats earphone and fits perfectly. These tips also fit 90% of the earphones on the market. If you are interested, here is a link: https://www.complyfoam.com/SmartCore/

Be sure to sign up for our newsletter so you can stay up-to-date with our latest releases and new device compatibility!

Let me know if you have any other questions. 

Best Regards,
Comply™ Foam Support_


----------



## siuoL

Temple said:


> Well I just received my three pairs of Tiso i4 a couple days and 2 out of the 3 have issues. First pair has very little low end and heavy driver flex in one ear. None of the other buds had the driver flex problem. Second pair the left earbud drops out every 10 seconds. One of the three sounds good with no driver flex or cut out. Sounds like a pretty bad QC thing going on over at Tiso.



Same issue here on Tiso i4. Left earbud kept on dropping out every 10 - 15 second, bought from Aliexpress Tiso official store. I provided video proof of the issue by showing a video in youtube watched 20 milions and the seller replied with blaming the problem is on the video and Aliexpress was in favour of them. 

21USD down the drain.


----------



## WesennTony (May 22, 2019)

FYI, Amazon USA has Nuarl Nt01ax available for $160 https://www.amazon.com/NUARL-Earphones-Microphone-NT01AX-BM-BlackMetallic【Japan/dp/B07QK89X59/ref=sr_1_fkmrnull_1?crid=2VXCALS78SXQS&keywords=nuarl+nt01ax&qid=1558532538&s=gateway&sprefix=nuarl+,aps,128&sr=8-1-fkmrnull

I'm hesitating to buy them since they look a bit bulky, and the isolation is just OK from what I learned here. Could anyone comment on how their size and isolation compared with MW07 and Anbes 359? I'm not worrying about the SQ since I already know they're my type.


----------



## actorlife (May 22, 2019)

I bought the *Alterola IE600 *about a month ago and man do these impress. Great Highs without being piercing, Bass is so good without being boomy, soundstage is not 359 caliber, but decent: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07MYZK9NT/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o02_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=19
1. Anbes 359($30 when on sale)
2. Alterola IE600($30 when on sale)
3. HonShoop W1(Got lucky and got these for $30 on ebay. Graphene drivers sound fantastic. These go for $39 and up)
4. Funcl W1($25 indigogo. No volume control, but these sound good and clear treble, good bass. If these had Vol. control they'd be higher on the list)
5. Diconna X18($13 on ebay. 4.2 BT. A bit rolled off highs, but good bass and no volume control. For the price they are pretty good)
What are your top 2 or top 5 or top 10?


----------



## Slater

I thought you all might find this article interesting, since many of these TWs offer AAC:

https://www.soundguys.com/the-ultimate-guide-to-bluetooth-headphones-aac-20296/


----------



## rhsauer

shandy3 said:


> I emailed Comply to ask. Short answer: they don't know. Full reply pasted below.
> 
> 
> _Hello,
> ...



I tried them with the SmartCore Comply tips.  The tips fit fine and they fit in the case — but, unfortunately, they still didn’t provide any meaningful isolation.  I think the problem is in the design of the earphones — it’s just impossible to insert any tip deeply enough to get any meaningful isolation.


----------



## mikp

the libratone qcc3026 is released, and the qcc5100 should come in june..

Dealbreaker is the only one control at a time on the buds(double tap) so have to choose in the app what you need. Also the tips seems to be one of those shallow types, so no common ones can be used.

https://fccid.io/Y2SLTI700

https://www.bilibili.com/video/av51585493/


----------



## hifi80sman

Slater said:


> I thought you all might find this article interesting, since many of these TWs offer AAC:
> 
> https://www.soundguys.com/the-ultimate-guide-to-bluetooth-headphones-aac-20296/


Nice read.  Seems to follow my real-world experiences.  For aptX and LDAC, I use my Galaxy s8, but anything AAC, I always use my iPhone Xs Max.

However, they seem to imply SBC is superior to AAC.  I can't jump on that bandwagon.  Not everything shows up on a frequency response graph.

_"Frequency cutoff varies widely from device to device with AAC. None of them approach Hi-Res—as expected—but AAC doesn’t reach frequencies high enough to match CD quality, LDAC or standard Bluetooth’s SBC in any instance. That’s concerning for anyone who prizes audio quality over convenience."_


----------



## typhoon838

Currently have the QCY T2S. They sound nice, but can be a little too quiet at max volume. Are the Anbes 359 louder? How about the Syllable S101?


----------



## Slater

hifi80sman said:


> Nice read.  Seems to follow my real-world experiences.  For aptX and LDAC, I use my Galaxy s8, but anything AAC, I always use my iPhone Xs Max.
> 
> However, they seem to imply SBC is superior to AAC.  I can't jump on that bandwagon.  Not everything shows up on a frequency response graph.
> 
> _"Frequency cutoff varies widely from device to device with AAC. None of them approach Hi-Res—as expected—but AAC doesn’t reach frequencies high enough to match CD quality, LDAC or standard Bluetooth’s SBC in any instance. That’s concerning for anyone who prizes audio quality over convenience."_



Yeah, I disagree with that statement also. Every piece of gear I've ever had that was SBC sounds noticeably degraded, like listening to MP3s ripped at 128k.


----------



## actorlife

typhoon838 said:


> Currently have the QCY T2S. They sound nice, but can be a little too quiet at max volume. Are the Anbes 359 louder? How about the Syllable S101?


Yes the 359 are loud. I'll let you know about the S101 in about two weeks or so.


----------



## falang (May 23, 2019)

typhoon838 said:


> Currently have the QCY T2S. They sound nice, but can be a little too quiet at max volume. Are the Anbes 359 louder? How about the Syllable S101?



I found them noticeably quieter than my Advanced Model X (which are great btw).  It could be that the latter earphones isolate better, but to be honest, I wasn't too impressed with the Anbes.  Had to have volume set to over 80% to hear music well while walking but even then, the Anbes were seriously lacking in detail and were not engaging or fun.  Very muddled.


----------



## chinmie

typhoon838 said:


> Currently have the QCY T2S. They sound nice, but can be a little too quiet at max volume. Are the Anbes 359 louder? How about the Syllable S101?



try unpair it/ forget from the phone and pair it again.. does the first time it pair the volume is high enough, but after putting it back in the case and reconnect it again,the volume suddenly more quiet?


----------



## Caipirina

MidSmoothness said:


> I just bought myself a Cowin KY02, looks like neat little TWS buds



Did you receive them yet? What are your impressions? And where did you get them? 

What always puzzles me: Those came across my AliX search today for the very first time, but obviously they have been around for 2 - 3 weeks, as I see people are getting them now and leaving reviews. How come I have not seen them before and what else is out there eluding my random searches


----------



## FYLegend

Slater said:


> Yeah, I disagree with that statement also. Every piece of gear I've ever had that was SBC sounds noticeably degraded, like listening to MP3s ripped at 128k.


True, but I suspect it is more a sloppy execution of SBC and artificial limitations. This post deals with tweaking SBC on Android to get it to sound closer if not better than AptX (with less dynamic range compression).
https://forum.xda-developers.com/android/software-hacking/improve-bluetooth-audio-quality-t3832615

From what I've tried so far Bluetooth speakers tend to do better than headphones for SBC. I also think Android's SBC sounds worse than my laptop's (ASUS Zenbook with BT 5.0 AC 9560). I had a hard time distinguishing between SBC sound on the laptop vs AAC on my phone (although SBC on the phone sounds bad). Astrotec S60 is also more prone to clipping issues using my phone and less so on laptop (still a tad more distorted than AAC though).


----------



## 40760 (May 23, 2019)

Joined the Indiegogo for EarFun Free tuned by Oluv aka Clavinetjunkie for $49. Hope I'll receive them next month...


----------



## MidSmoothness

Caipirina said:


> Did you receive them yet? What are your impressions? And where did you get them?
> 
> What always puzzles me: Those came across my AliX search today for the very first time, but obviously they have been around for 2 - 3 weeks, as I see people are getting them now and leaving reviews. How come I have not seen them before and what else is out there eluding my random searches



They are quite nice to be honest. Solid fit, i’m able to push them loud enough for my needs. Solid bass, not completely flat but also not boomy. Mids are quite recessed though, highs are alright. 

Controls could be better, would’ve liked more responsive touch controls. Charging case feels solid, nice and weighty with USB-C charging. Solid Bluetooth performance so far.


----------



## Slater

FYLegend said:


> True, but I suspect it is more a sloppy execution of SBC and artificial limitations.



Good point. My Xiaomi Bluetooth receivers and Meizu EP52 use SBC, and they both sound very good. I’m sure there’s differences with the hardware and exact SBC implementation


----------



## BobJS

WesennTony said:


> FYI, Amazon USA has Nuarl Nt01ax available for $160 https://www.amazon.com/NUARL-Earphones-Microphone-NT01AX-BM-BlackMetallic【Japan/dp/B07QK89X59/ref=sr_1_fkmrnull_1?crid=2VXCALS78SXQS&keywords=nuarl+nt01ax&qid=1558532538&s=gateway&sprefix=nuarl+,aps,128&sr=8-1-fkmrnull
> 
> I'm hesitating to buy them since they look a bit bulky, and the isolation is just OK from what I learned here. Could anyone comment on how their size and isolation compared with MW07 and Anbes 359? I'm not worrying about the SQ since I already know they're my type.



I went to sleep with these in last night.  Looking in the mirror, they stick out a little bit but I think they look fine. In terms of bulk I don't think they're very different from MW07.  I'm a side-sleeper and had no problem.  I found the isolation to be up with the best of them.


----------



## hifi80sman (May 23, 2019)

So, finally decided to purchase the Samsung Galaxy Buds ("Sound by AKG") after returning the Audio-Technica ATH-CKR7TW, which I felt were overpriced for what you got (I picked them up for $199).

Going into it, I actually had low expectations for the Samsung Galaxy Buds, which I thought would sound shrill and cheap, based on my experience with prior Samsung efforts.  To my pleasant surprise, they have a clean, balanced sound and a surprisingly comfortable, secure, and airtight fit.  Downloading the app and setting the EQ to "Dynamic", sort of turns it into a "W" shape signature, since the mids to me already sound a bit forward (but good).  Vocals sound great, as well as guitar and other mid-centric instruments.  They support AAC and Samsung's Scalable Codec.  As touched on just above, AAC on iOS sounds noticeably better, as does the Scalable Codec vs. AAC on Android.  When toggling to AAC on Android, it sounds dull and uninspiring.  AAC on iOS sounds faceslappingly awesome.

Didn't really think I'd care for the Qi Wireless Charging, but it's more handy than I thought it would be.  Hanven't tried calls yet, but I'll give that a shot today.

Picked them up for $103 and they are a great value at that price.

Also, I just ordered the Anker Soundcore Liberty Neo today.  Anyone have any feedback on those so far?


----------



## zazaboy

another bluetooth headphone of edifier dont know if they are the real deal but it has good feedback

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/EDIFIER-TWS2-True-Wireless-Bluetooth-V5-0-Stereo-Technology-Headphone-Can-Be-Used-Independently-Super-MINI/32970549633.html?spm=a2g0z.10010108.1000001.12.5eed2af187VOhF&ws_ab_test=searchweb0_0,searchweb201602_8_10065_10068_10843_319_10059_10884_317_10887_10696_321_322_453_10084_454_10083_10103_10618_10304_10307_10820_10301_10821_537_536,searchweb201603_53,ppcSwitch_0&algo_pvid=135bdf1b-259e-49c2-9b1f-45169daf9f58&algo_expid=135bdf1b-259e-49c2-9b1f-45169daf9f58-2


----------



## LajostheHun

Slater said:


> I thought you all might find this article interesting, since many of these TWs offer AAC:
> 
> https://www.soundguys.com/the-ultimate-guide-to-bluetooth-headphones-aac-20296/


already commented on this a few pages back, I did leave a comment also on their page.


----------



## FYLegend

hifi80sman said:


> So, finally decided to purchase the Samsung Galaxy Buds (Sound by AKG) after returning the Audio-Technica ATH-CKR7TW, which I felt were overpriced for what you got (I picked them up for $199).
> 
> Going into it, I actually had low expectations for the Samsung Galaxy Buds, which I thought would sound shrill and cheap, based on my experience with prior Samsung efforts.  To my pleasant surprise, they have a clean, balanced sound and a surprisingly comfortable, secure, and airtight fit.  Downloading the app and setting the EQ to "Dynamic", sort of turns it into a "W" shape signature, since the mids to me already sound a bit forward (but good).  Vocals sound great, as well as guitar and other mid-centric instruments.
> 
> ...


Does the Qi charging work well with 10W chargers? Astrotec S60 and Sabbat E12 are designed for 5W chargers only although El Jefe said E12 works fine with his 10W charger. Astrotec tends to not charge with 10W chargers especially if they have foreign object detection (probably the metal lid).


----------



## hifi80sman

FYLegend said:


> Does the Qi charging work well with 10W chargers? Astrotec S60 and Sabbat E12 are designed for 5W chargers only although El Jefe said E12 works fine with his 10W charger. Astrotec tends to not charge with 10W chargers especially if they have foreign object detection (probably the metal lid).


I have no issues.  I have the Ubio Labs 10W Qi Wireless Charging Pad, 2-pack from Costco and it works great.  It seems to auto-detect charge level.  For my s8, it fast charges.  Not sure if the Galaxy Buds fast charge or not, but it was charging just fine last night.

Features:

10W Qi Certified Fast Charging For The Samsung Note 9, S9, S9+ and Other Compatible Devices
7.5W Apple Wireless Charging for iPhone XS, iPhone XS Max, and iPhone XR and Other Compatible Devices
5W Charging for Compatible Wireless Charging Devices
(2) 10W Qi Wireless Charging Pads
(2) Wall Plugs


----------



## Coladdict

Anyone here has both QCY T1C and Tiso I4 ... Could you comment on both and state why you like one over the other ...


----------



## jasonb

This thread seems to be more about budget true wireless buds than $100+ buds, but I thought I'd give an update on my week with the Galaxy Buds. 

I absolutely love these things, with the exception of the occasional audio hiccup or stutter I get when I'm outside walking my dog while using these. While I'm inside the house the connection is perfect 99.9% of the time, but step outside with my phone in a pants pocket and I'll get random occasional hiccups and stutters. I don't understand this one bit. I don't understand why being outside the house makes such a big difference with Bluetooth stability.

In terms of sound quality, with the EQ in the Samsung Wearables app set to "clear" these things are pretty neutral. Still a tad more bass than an HD650, but for a portable Bluetooth earbud I'm fine with that. Ive had plenty of earbuds sound too bassy and congested and to me unusable, but these are great. 

Battery life is great, and they are small and comfortable. Only complaint is Bluetooth connection stability while outside, but I can live with it.


----------



## clerkpalmer

jasonb said:


> This thread seems to be more about budget true wireless buds than $100+ buds, but I thought I'd give an update on my week with the Galaxy Buds.
> 
> I absolutely love these things, with the exception of the occasional audio hiccup or stutter I get when I'm outside walking my dog while using these. While I'm inside the house the connection is perfect 99.9% of the time, but step outside with my phone in a pants pocket and I'll get random occasional hiccups and stutters. I don't understand this one bit. I don't understand why being outside the house makes such a big difference with Bluetooth stability.
> 
> ...


Thanks for your impressions.  Welcome to the thread.  It's a mix between those of us who prefer the higher end stuff (me) and those focused on the chi-fi stuff.  The budget stuff is more interesting in a lot of ways because it is pushing the advanced chipsets before the big names are upgrading so there is a reason you see a lot about the lower end products.  The Galaxy buds seem like a good mid range option particularly for those using a Samsung phone.  It's kind of been a slow year for TW.  I think we are all waiting for some new models to come with ANC built in.


----------



## Caipirina

Someone recently asked for earbud style TWS ... and I noticed those 2 new (?) offerings cropping up, the G01 6D Surround (what the heck is that even supposed to mean?) and the T8 TWS. 

Kinda curious about both myself


----------



## srinivasvignesh (May 24, 2019)

Is this a rebrand (the T8) of the Sabbat X12? If so, at $14, it is a steal.

(The case, the grooves, the mic locations, the specs they all match). Only thing is that the X12 seems to have colorful faceplates.


----------



## Caipirina (May 24, 2019)

srinivasvignesh said:


> Is this a rebrand (the T8) of the Sabbat X12? If so, at $14, it is a steal.



My wild speculation is that those 2 are merely using the same shell as the X12 ... I have seen rebrands of the Sabbat X12, but they would still keep the X12 in the name (maybe to indicate the same inside technology) ...  I think I will jump on those 14$ ones, though I really like the shiny finish of the others ... still looking around if I can find out more about them ... with image search on the Ali-app I can see that there are tons of sellers offering that G01 ... but in that grid view on mobile I cannot see if any of those have reviews yet (and too lazy to click each to find out) ...  is there any better way? like image search on the ail website that I am not aware of?


----------



## srinivasvignesh

I already ordered the $14 ones. I would imagine that even the internals are the same, as all the other specs are identical (call times, BT 5 etc. ).


----------



## Caipirina

srinivasvignesh said:


> I already ordered the $14 ones. I would imagine that even the internals are the same, as all the other specs are identical (call times, BT 5 etc. ).



Woah, that shop where it's 13.52$ on mobile even has a 1$ off (when you buy over 10$) coupon ... 12.52$ ...  totally ordering this


----------



## chinmie

jasonb said:


> This thread seems to be more about budget true wireless buds than $100+ buds, but I thought I'd give an update on my week with the Galaxy Buds.
> 
> I absolutely love these things, with the exception of the occasional audio hiccup or stutter I get when I'm outside walking my dog while using these. While I'm inside the house the connection is perfect 99.9% of the time, but step outside with my phone in a pants pocket and I'll get random occasional hiccups and stutters. I don't understand this one bit. I don't understand why being outside the house makes such a big difference with Bluetooth stability.
> 
> ...



not at all, we also talk about the higher models, it's just at this time the wave product of the cheaper ones seems to be coming quite a lot, that's why they get talk about more often. when the next wave of premium products coming, they would certainly be discussed here

by the way , thank you for your review on the Galaxy Buds


----------



## chinmie (May 24, 2019)

another experiment with eartips with the Mifo o5:

i tested this eartips that are meant for the backbeat go:
https://m.aliexpress.com/item/32739937687.html

I'm interested because they seem to have a really short but deep stem, i figured it could fit the o5 and can still fit in the charging case, so i ordered them


it turns out i was right! the only modification i had to make was cutting the dome part just a little (that ring below) so it doesn't cover the charging pin because it was really long




here is the dome length after i shaved it just a bit.

and for anyone's asking:
yes they fit in the case and can charge nicely

this one sounded similar to when i put some JVC spiral dots on the o5: more spaced/backward soundstage, and less bloat on the midbass, but without the hassle of having to take them off everytime i charge.

i think it would also work with other TWS that have short stubby nozzle like the Mifo, Jabra, etc

it won't work for your traditional IEMs though, because the nozzle would just poke out too much


----------



## david8613

in for one of the t8, 10.00 with coupon! this is crazy, let see how these sound, who gets their t8 please post what they are like.


----------



## actorlife

Caipirina said:


> Someone recently asked for earbud style TWS ... and I noticed those 2 new (?) offerings cropping up, the G01 6D Surround (what the heck is that even supposed to mean?) and the T8 TWS.
> 
> Kinda curious about both myself


Here they are on ebay. Only 3hr playback: https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https://www.ebay.com/ulk/itm/133032883379


----------



## srinivasvignesh

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Sab...890.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.2da54c4dHXsrgJ 

Look at the talk time claimed here for X12. It is also claimed to have just 2-3 hour talk time. I do not believe some of these description write ups are accurate. 






However, I do think that these could be the earlier versions with Micro-USB port. The X12s have type-C. I guess we will only truly know when we receive it in our hands.


----------



## david8613

micro usb port, that's probably why they are blowing them our so cheap!


----------



## srinivasvignesh

I am happy if only the mic on these are just as good on the X12 Pro. Well, it is just $13, worst case.


----------



## Caipirina

srinivasvignesh said:


> I am happy if only the mic on these are just as good on the X12 Pro. Well, it is just $13, worst case.



Speaking if cheap ... who needs a charging case anyways?  


 

Yes, I am having some endless scrolling down the rabbit hole fun and seems I found the (price) bottom of the barrel


----------



## Slater

Where are you guys seeing the X12 Pro for $10?


----------



## Caipirina

Slater said:


> Where are you guys seeing the X12 Pro for $10?



The black one in this post ... some are speculating that it might be the same as x12 .. and someone managed to apply coupon to get to 10$ (I only managed 12.52$) 

AliX Link


----------



## AtariPrime (May 24, 2019)

.


----------



## hifi80sman

Caipirina said:


> The black one in this post ... some are speculating that it might be the same as x12 .. and someone managed to apply coupon to get to 10$ (I only managed 12.52$)
> 
> AliX Link


Looks like Micro USB and likely just SBC, but I guess for around $13, who cares!  Would make a nice gift.


----------



## srinivasvignesh

Supports both SBC and AAC.


----------



## SuperLuigi

That Ali store seems pretty suspect.  Very few followers, very low score for ali standards, lots of cheap knock off stuff.


----------



## zazaboy

is it possible to get the same clone for a lower price? cant it be knockoff with low end drivers in it ? what makes you guys think its the same?


----------



## hifi80sman

srinivasvignesh said:


> Supports both SBC and AAC.


Yes, I saw that, but I have several Chi-Fi units that purport to use that same chipset, yet all of them only function with SBC.


----------



## Tim Le

Hi guys, my earbuds finally died after a year of gym abuse, and I thought I'd look into wireless buds for my next pair. I'm willing to pay up to $100, does anyone have recommendations?

I'm thinking of getting the Anbes 359, as they're under the $50 price point, and I'm only reading good things about them


----------



## hifi80sman

Tim Le said:


> Hi guys, my earbuds finally died after a year of gym abuse, and I thought I'd look into wireless buds for my next pair. I'm willing to pay up to $100, does anyone have recommendations?
> 
> I'm thinking of getting the Anbes 359, as they're under the $50 price point, and I'm only reading good things about them


Depends what your tastes are.  If you want a clean & balanced sound, great low-profile fit, good mic, competent touch controls, Qi charging & USB C, I'd recommend the Samsung Galaxy Buds.  Soundstage and imaging are way better than I expected.  They retail for $129, but I got mine for $103 with a 20% coupon from Fry's Electronics (although you do have to spend $199 or more in total purchases).  There also have been a few sales around $97-$99.

The Anbes 359 are very good, especially for the price (around $30 or so).  Bass is big, but a nice, soft, round, deep bass (yes, I'm aware of how that sounds!).  Highs a bit rolled off, but still articulate and a smooth listen.  Good gym 'buds because you can crank them a bit without piercing a hold in your eardrums.  For sitting at a desk, however, I'd pick the Galaxy buds.

If you're into bass, the Anbes 359 are a great choice, but if you want a more well-rounded option in this price range, the Galaxy Buds are hard to beat.


----------



## MidSmoothness

I highly recommend the Cowin KY02. Wonderful well rounded in-ears with nice features and accessories for just under 35$.


----------



## hifi80sman

OK, so returned the Anker Soundcore Liberty Neo due to driver imbalance (right side louder than left).  That aside, it's a VERY V-shaped signature.  Super deep bass and super bright highs.  I'm not going to lie, the bass was nice, but the highs we're too sharp to the point they began to distort a bit.  You'd have to EQ, but if the speakers were balanced, I would have kept them.

Instead, I found the MEBUYZ Bluetooth 5.0 Headphones with Qualcomm APTX Stereo Audio, CVC 8.0, which will arrive tomorrow, that feature some pretty nice specs for $50.  MEBUYZ?  Me did buy!

Wireless Version: V5.0

Chip: Qualcomm QCC3020

Earbud Battery: 50 mAh Li-polymer Battery

Charging Time for Earbud: About 1.5H

Playing Time: 7-8H (50% volume)

Standby Time(including charging case): 150 H

Charging Case Battery: 500 mAh Li-polymer Battery

Operation Range: Up to 33 ft/10 m

Waterproof Level: IPX 5


----------



## turbobb

hifi80sman said:


> MEBUYZ?  Me did buy!



LOL - though I knew of this brand a while back, only recently came across this specific model. Looking fwd to your impressions.

P.S. If they're good and a few of us grab em, do we petition to rename their company to WEBUYZ?  ^_^


----------



## hifi80sman

turbobb said:


> LOL - though I knew of this brand a while back, only recently came across this specific model. Looking fwd to your impressions.
> 
> P.S. If they're good and a few of us grab em, do we petition to rename their company to WEBUYZ?  ^_^


For sure!  Maybe something like WEBUYZLONGTIME.


----------



## Slater

hifi80sman said:


> For sure!  Maybe something like WEBUYZLONGTIME.



RERUVZYOULONGTIME


----------



## hifi80sman

QUESTION:  Does anyone have experience with any tips that work with the Bose Soundsport Free that ISOLATE?

Thanks!


----------



## webvan

Bose Soundsport Free <> Isolation
Now you could try the tips of


david8613 said:


> in for one of the t8, 10.00 with coupon! this is crazy, let see how these sound, who gets their t8 please post what they are like.


What kind of coupon do you use to get 10$, or is it 10£ ? 
Still a steal if it's the X12 and why wouldn't they be ? I'm getting an extra pair in case something happens to mine. They're those I use the most these days, well except when I'm in the train, in which case I whip out the 65t.

Was hoping we'd have some QC5020 models with ANC by now but still nothing it seems ?


----------



## RobinFood

webvan said:


> Bose Soundsport Free <> Isolation
> Now you could try the tips of
> 
> What kind of coupon do you use to get 10$, or is it 10£ ?
> ...



Yes, it is taking quite a while for the QCC5000 series chips to come out. The Cleer TWE that looked promising was supposed to be released in early may, but the release date was pushed back to July.


----------



## mikp

RobinFood said:


> Yes, it is taking quite a while for the QCC5000 series chips to come out. The Cleer TWE that looked promising was supposed to be released in early may, but the release date was pushed back to July.



That cleer was released with qcc30xx series. Their web page says the qcc51xx version is supposed to come in august, who knows.

Libratone track air + with qcc51xx is rumoured in june, but they released the qcc31xx that does not look good. 

Sony is working on WF1000XM3, but not known what chipset.


----------



## Caipirina

webvan said:


> Was hoping we'd have some QC5020 models with ANC by now but still nothing it seems ?



Inspired by this I did an idle search of 'tws anc' on aliX and came across THOSE 


 

Samload appears to be quite confident in their ANC claim (unlike some others where the ANC seems to be more like a typo) and there is even a mention of qualcomm in an unclickable footnote which brings up an old press release from 2017  

But somehow I don't think this is just it yet


----------



## mikp

Caipirina said:


> Inspired by this I did an idle search of 'tws anc' on aliX and came across THOSE
> 
> 
> 
> ...




these it seems


----------



## Caipirina

mikp said:


> these it seems



Interesting ... when googling that BES2000IZ 5.0+EDR though I see also a lot of 'older' TWE that are using those, including some 22$ on AliX models ... hmm ... 
Maybe wait for the first reports back ... 

I do have some wired ANC headphones that barely deserve the ANC title ... 
think I wait for Bose to nail this one (I have both Sony TWEs with ANC and it is rather .. meh )


----------



## webvan

Yep it's not the usual "noise cancellation" that in fact applies to the microphone !
As for the Sony TWEs, yes, the ANC is really nothing to write home about. It's possibly due to the available power available because Sony know how to make ANC work !


----------



## TeeZee

I can't find Anbes 359 on Amazon that will ship to Canada. Can someone share a link where I can find them elsewhere? I see a few Anbes on Ali, but they don't have the model number. Thanks!


----------



## actorlife

TeeZee said:


> I can't find Anbes 359 on Amazon that will ship to Canada. Can someone share a link where I can find them elsewhere? I see a few Anbes on Ali, but they don't have the model number. Thanks!


Try eBay Anbes 359 or kissral r18 are the same. Just different branding.


----------



## webvan

A review of the JBL UA on Rtings : https://www.rtings.com/headphones/reviews/jbl/ua-true-wireless-flash
A bit meh...terrible latency.


----------



## clerkpalmer (May 25, 2019)

webvan said:


> A review of the JBL UA on Rtings : https://www.rtings.com/headphones/reviews/jbl/ua-true-wireless-flash
> A bit meh...terrible latency.


That’s actually a pretty impressive score on sq and may convince me to take a look at them. They like the sq over the MTW. Hard to believe that’s over SBC.

Edit that latency is a deal breaker though. I need tunes and Netflix at the gym. Too bad. That’s what sbc gets you.


----------



## Barusu Lamperouge (May 25, 2019)

Hi, I'm new to tws world. I had purchased Bluedio TWS for $14 which were utter crap in terms of sound quality. I'm still finding my feet with these and would like community's help in selecting a budget earpiece (<= $30). I will be using them for traveling in rains. SQ is primary followed by fit. Thanks in advance.


----------



## bronco1015

Dani157 said:


> Hi, I'm new to tws world. I had purchased Bluedio TWS for $14 which were utter crap in terms of sound quality. I'm still finding my feet with these and would like community's help in selecting a budget earpiece (<= $30). I will be using them for traveling in rains. SQ is primary followed by fit. Thanks in advance.


the qcy t1c is a solid choice at $30 or under, bt 5 great range, pretty solid tonality right up there with the jabras imo. another solid choice is the ambes 359 which are $30 or under, bt 5, sound better with calls then the t1c in my experience, charge via usb-c and have a really nice low pro and fit. not quite the sound of the t1c, but not enough to be dismissed at all, especially considering the whole package. and they're IP 6 rated IIRC


----------



## Barusu Lamperouge

bronco1015 said:


> the qcy t1c is a solid choice at $30 or under, bt 5 great range, pretty solid tonality right up there with the jabras imo. another solid choice is the ambes 359 which are $30 or under, bt 5, sound better with calls then the t1c in my experience, charge via usb-c and have a really nice low pro and fit. not quite the sound of the t1c, but not enough to be dismissed at all, especially considering the whole package. and they're IP 6 rated IIRC



Thanks for your recommendations. So T1c are ip5 and anbes 359 are ip6. Both should  be fine for rains. Will check both of them.


----------



## bronco1015

Dani157 said:


> Thanks for your recommendations. So T1c are ip5 and anbes 359 are ip6. Both should  be fine for rains. Will check both of them.


no problem. i thought the t1c might be IP5, but wasn't sure and didn't want to give false info.


----------



## jfvny (May 26, 2019)

Tested out the Creative Outlier Air a few days ago. Just wanted to note that they sound decent, but wasn't as good as my Havit G1. The bass seemed a little muddier, but it's still pretty good. The 14h battery life on the Outlier Gold is especially tempting tho


----------



## hifi80sman

Pass on the MEBUYZ.  MENOBUYZ.  MERETURNZ.

BASS:  Lacking
MIDS:  Thin
HIGHS:  Fragile

SBC:  Sounds petty bad.  Compressed, artifacts, raspy, and just sounds cheap.

aptX:  Sound is cleaner and compression artifacts are gone for the most part, but other than that, it just sounds “cheap” with poor lows, mids, and highs.

AAC:  Not supported.

MIC:  cVc 8.0 or not, the mic hardware itself it pretty mediocre and sounds distant with poor resolution.  Far from the “crystal clear” description.


----------



## hifi80sman (May 27, 2019)

I also got the SWARK True Wireless Stereo Bluetooth 5.0 Earbuds with USB Type C, mainly for USB C and touch controls, but it's garbage as well.  The touch controls are severely non-responsive and I can't even turn them on!  They don't power on automatically out of the case, so you have to press (touch) each earbud for 3s to power on.  Most of the time, only one of them turns on, while many other times, neither turn on (they were fully charged, left them charging for 5 hours).

I'm not exaggerating on the touch controls.  They're not just "funky", they flat out hardly ever work...like, ever.  The few times I did managed to get them powered on at the same time, the touch controls were equally non-functional with pause/play, track skip, etc.  The also sound muffled, like there is a pillow over the drivers.  Oh, and when they pair, they pair at max volume, so watch out!  Stay clear of this one.  Garbage.

So far, the Anbes 359 are my top Chi-Fi unit (USB C, AAC) with most not even coming close.  You have to jump into name brand territory to get better (Galaxy Buds, Sennheiser, M&D).  In fact, I'm listening to the Anbes 359 right now, just for pure enjoyment (AAC, iPhone).

As far as value with a name brand unit, and I'd never thought I'd use "value" and "Samsung" in the same sentence, but I can't say enough good things about the Samsung Galaxy Buds.  They even have AAC, which I suspect was a friendly nod to iPhone users.  The only cons, are that when using iOS, there is no app to reassign the touch controls (they don't permanently re-map in the 'buds).


----------



## JimmyR

Hi,guys.
I’ve been lurking over here for quite a time, but this is my first post.
I read many good things about the Anbes 359 on SQ,but how about the mic quality for calls? How well the person at the other end can hear you? 
Got the Sabbat E12 a couple of months ago and while I’m happy with it in many aspects, the call quality is clearly subpar,even in silent environments. Definitely not good for business calls (low and with an annoying buzzing sound in the background that I’ve seen also in some YT reviews).

Thanks


----------



## Caipirina (May 28, 2019)

I came across yet another ‘exotic’ TWE on AliX. This one not only looks good. It has the unique ‘feature’ that there is no battery in the charging case  that’s a first for me. Also strange that it only pops up in one (not that greatly rated) shop. Has Chinese label / name, instead of some weird English wording.


   But for the heck of it, I can’t find out anything else about this one!!! And it’s driving me nuts! That one review is pretty good (though also puzzling, coming from a US buyer, while the only 2 orders are from .ch and .kr).

Hive-mind! What say yee?

7h play time.  Designed for Asian ears (that’s what they say)
https://s.click.aliexpress.com/e/b7w0dOLm


----------



## hifi80sman

JimmyR said:


> Hi,guys.
> I’ve been lurking over here for quite a time, but this is my first post.
> I read many good things about the Anbes 359 on SQ,but how about the mic quality for calls? How well the person at the other end can hear you?
> Got the Sabbat E12 a couple of months ago and while I’m happy with it in many aspects, the call quality is clearly subpar,even in silent environments. Definitely not good for business calls (low and with an annoying buzzing sound in the background that I’ve seen also in some YT reviews).
> ...


As a matter of fact, after reading this, I just made a few calls and even called myself to leave a message and see how it sounded.  It's actually pretty good.  Keep in mind that I'm in a quiet environment right now, so I can't say how it would work in a coffee shop.


----------



## nlowran

Hey guys I made the mistake of getting deep into the audiophile game and am now trying to find a pair of tws that won't make me sad on the inside.  I right now have a pair of u12t's that are my dailies.  Need something that I can take in the rain and not worry about how fast I just blew 2g's.  Any rec's would be great.


----------



## FeedYourHead

Anyone tried the Tranya T3's? I bought my wife the T1's over a year ago and they're still going strong, so I figured I'd try the updated T3.

https://www.amazon.com/Bluetooth-Wireless-Headphones-Continuous-Earphones/dp/B07KW1TNSM

8 hour (legit) run time plus you'll get a ton of charges from the case. I ran these for a week without charging the case, with 3-8 hours of listening per day. They never died on me. I mostly bought them because I was looking for TWS with extended run time, but was pleasantly surprised by the sound. Bass is definitely boosted, but is easily EQ'd out. However, I normally leave them flat as I usually listen at lower volumes and the boost is nice a that level. They do get quite loud if needed. They're also very comfortable and stay put when working out.

They came with silicone eartips in 3 sizes; I prefer memory foam so I bought these :
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0722LZ66S 

To allow the buds to sit more flush with my ear, I trimmed a millimeter or so off the base of the ear tip, and it worked great! They still fit fine in the charging case as well. Isolation with this setup is amazing!

The T3's have a $10 coupon right now, but even at the full $50 they are still an amazing deal, IMHO.


----------



## Caipirina

For those who are / were on the fence regarding the Whizzer TP1 ... there is a flash sale going on on AliExpress right now. 49.77$ 

That's 6$ less than what I paid (and I am still awaiting delivery, so I can't say anything about it yet) 

 

and no, I am not affiliated, nor am I getting any kickbacks ...


----------



## hifi80sman

Definitely know you’re not affiliated, as there isn’t a product link.  

According to the reviews, AAC support and USB-C.  Could be a nice find.  Looking forward to your feedback.


----------



## FYLegend

hifi80sman said:


> I also got the SWARK True Wireless Stereo Bluetooth 5.0 Earbuds with USB Type C, mainly for USB C and touch controls, but it's garbage as well.  The touch controls are severely non-responsive and I can't even turn them on!  They don't power on automatically out of the case, so you have to press (touch) each earbud for 3s to power on.  Most of the time, only one of them turns on, while many other times, neither turn on (they were fully charged, left them charging for 5 hours).
> 
> I'm not exaggerating on the touch controls.  They're not just "funky", they flat out hardly ever work...like, ever.  The few times I did managed to get them powered on at the same time, the touch controls were equally non-functional with pause/play, track skip, etc.  The also sound muffled, like there is a pillow over the drivers.  Oh, and when they pair, they pair at max volume, so watch out!  Stay clear of this one.  Garbage.
> 
> ...


Where did you purchase the 359 to Canada? Do they charge using USB PD (type C to C cables)? Of wired headphones/IEMs, what would you say they sound closest to?

I've been enjoying the S60 more and more, but my gripe now is that with my Galaxy Note 9's latest software update, I can no longer enable/disable "media volume sync" for it specifically. Previously I  could use this to significantly increase volume (SBC sounds worse as a result but AAC is clean and loud). It's frustrating as they sound much cleaner and louder with SBC through my laptop. On my Note 9, 100% volume sounds distorted with either codec, so I have to bring it down to 94%, and for some tracks not normalized it's just not loud enough.

The Jabra 65t reminds me of ATH-E40 while S60 more or less reminds me of ATH-IM70 but without the midrange emphasis.


----------



## Caipirina

hifi80sman said:


> Definitely know you’re not affiliated, as there isn’t a product link.
> 
> According to the reviews, AAC support and USB-C.  Could be a nice find.  Looking forward to your feedback.



Silverfishla shared his thoughts 2 weeks back. 

And I am pretty certain somewhere else I read someone describing them as having 'incredible soundstage' for TWE ... will find out for myself in 2 weeks


----------



## Caipirina (May 28, 2019)

Caipirina said:


> Hive-mind! What say yee?
> 
> But for the heck of it, I can’t find out anything else about this one!!! And it’s driving me nuts! That one review is pretty good (though also puzzling, coming from a US buyer, while the only 2 orders are from .ch and .kr).
> 
> ...



No one jumping in here? 

Well, what I keep finding all just should be bringing up red flags: Google visual translation tells me the Chinese characters on the box say 'Sony Ericsson' ..

Red-dot-org lists two TWS among their design winners, a Bragi and a TWSV100 I've never heard about before ... but nothing called T3 or anything else looking like this ... 

Last but not least, they list 'active noise cancelling' in features, but that area is often populated by copy / paste snafus ...

and still ... I kinda like the looks of those


----------



## falang

Hey guys. I figured y'all might be able to help me out with a problem I have as you may have encountered it as well.  I own two true wireless earbuds: Anbes 359, and the Advanced Model X.  I like both but love the latter by a wider margin.  I've used them on 3 phones: Oneplus 3t, Oneplus 6t, and my new Oneplus 7 Pro.  

Both earbuds worked great on the older Oneplus phones, without any issues other than the occasional pairing issue with the Advanced Model X.  However, since I started using the new Oneplus 7 Pro, the Advanced Model X has lost all its power.  I have to max out the volume to even approach what 60% volume was doing on the other two phones, and even at max volume level, they sound lifeless without any punch. The odd thing is: the Anbes still work great and at the same volume levels as the older phones.  And when I try the Advanced Model X earbuds with the older phones, they still work as they did before which was great.  But they just aren't meshing well with the new phone.

This has me really scratching my head.  I've tried:

resetting the Model X multiple times
forgetting and repairing the Model X
messing around with the every single Bluetooth setting on the phone
My next attempt is to wipe the phone and try again with a fresh install, but before I do that, I was wondering if any of you guys have a possible solution in mind?  Sorry for the long post.


----------



## actorlife

FYLegend said:


> Where did you purchase the 359 to Canada? Do they charge using USB PD (type C to C cables)? Of wired headphones/IEMs, what would you say they sound closest to?
> 
> I've been enjoying the S60 more and more, but my gripe now is that with my Galaxy Note 9's latest software update, I can no longer enable/disable "media volume sync" for it specifically. Previously I  could use this to significantly increase volume (SBC sounds worse as a result but AAC is clean and loud). It's frustrating as they sound much cleaner and louder with SBC through my laptop. On my Note 9, 100% volume sounds distorted with either codec, so I have to bring it down to 94%, and for some tracks not normalized it's just not loud enough.
> 
> The Jabra 65t reminds me of ATH-E40 while S60 more or less reminds me of ATH-IM70 but without the midrange emphasis.



https://www.head-fi.org/threads/goi...re-we-there-yet.861024/page-474#post-14972907


----------



## JimmyR

hifi80sman said:


> As a matter of fact, after reading this, I just made a few calls and even called myself to leave a message and see how it sounded.  It's actually pretty good.  Keep in mind that I'm in a quiet environment right now, so I can't say how it would work in a coffee shop.



Thanks for trying and commenting on this...buddy


----------



## hifi80sman

FYLegend said:


> Where did you purchase the 359 to Canada? Do they charge using USB PD (type C to C cables)? Of wired headphones/IEMs, what would you say they sound closest to?
> 
> I've been enjoying the S60 more and more, but my gripe now is that with my Galaxy Note 9's latest software update, I can no longer enable/disable "media volume sync" for it specifically. Previously I  could use this to significantly increase volume (SBC sounds worse as a result but AAC is clean and loud). It's frustrating as they sound much cleaner and louder with SBC through my laptop. On my Note 9, 100% volume sounds distorted with either codec, so I have to bring it down to 94%, and for some tracks not normalized it's just not loud enough.
> 
> The Jabra 65t reminds me of ATH-E40 while S60 more or less reminds me of ATH-IM70 but without the midrange emphasis.


Sorry brother, that's CA for California, not Canada!

As far as sound impressions, the Anbes 359 *remind *me the most of the Meze 99 Neo.  I'm not saying they sound the same, but they have a similar bass-forward signature.  I think both sound great for what they are.


----------



## Terminator3000

Anyone tried these?

HAVIT Bluetooth 5.0 Wireless Headphones 60H Playtime True Wireless Earphones Earbuds with Mic Deep Bass 3D Stereo Sound with Portable Charging Case, Black (I93) https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B07QL71XTB/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_i_pWD7CbW2GN0TM


----------



## FYLegend

actorlife said:


> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/goi...re-we-there-yet.861024/page-474#post-14972907


Yeah but I'm wondering what sites outside of ebay.


----------



## webvan

Caipirina said:


> Someone recently asked for earbud style TWS ... and I noticed those 2 new (?) offerings cropping up, the G01 6D Surround (what the heck is that even supposed to mean?) and the T8 TWS.
> 
> Kinda curious about both myself


Has anyone's order of the T8 TWS shipped ? Just pinged the seller to see what was up...


----------



## Caipirina

webvan said:


> Has anyone's order of the T8 TWS shipped ? Just pinged the seller to see what was up...



Not yet, still has like 5 day processing time ... let us know what seller says ... or maybe I shall ping them too    Or cancel! That wakes them up sometimes


----------



## webvan

He just replied that my package would ship in 6 days...seems rather long. I'm going to have to extend the processing time.


----------



## clerkpalmer

Looks like Bose is updating the SS Free lineup and ANC is coming as well. 

https://www.bose.com/en_us/better_w...5691&cjevent=e10683ab821a11e983ef05c30a240614

Still a while out however.  Presumably others will beat them to the punch.


----------



## d3myz (May 29, 2019)

BigZ12 said:


> In my opinion the Anbes sounds better. More controlled bass (a bit punchier, not that "boomy"?!), and the highs are more detailed. They are also quite a bit louder (on my iPhone X)
> Volume control is also a selling point with the 359s.
> 
> I'm also curious of the Syllable and the Creative Outlier Air/Gold. I need a TWS with AptX and longer battery life.



Interesting, I have two pair of QCY T2S/T1C and to me they have better clarity at the top end. They sparkle a bit more to me. This may be due to the bass in the QCY being crossed over lower freq. than the Anbes. The Anbes don't have quite the same sparkle at the top on my Iphone XS Max. in addition to spotify, I listen to a lot of audiobooks and on the anbes I can tell the difference in pronunciations, and especially with male authors with low voices there is much more mid-bass in the Anbes. To me this makes things sound a bit more muddy is a less pleasant listening experience.


----------



## howdy

clerkpalmer said:


> Looks like Bose is updating the SS Free lineup and ANC is coming as well.
> 
> https://www.bose.com/en_us/better_w...5691&cjevent=e10683ab821a11e983ef05c30a240614
> 
> Still a while out however.  Presumably others will beat them to the punch.


They look nice and have some great options. I will probably have to pick these up as I do like the tuning of Bose headphones.


----------



## turbobb (May 29, 2019)

EDIT: Ooops, missed Clerk's post up above, please ignore. 

PSA: Bose will be releasing two new TWE's, the Earbuds 500 (late 2019) and the Noise Cancelling Earbuds 700 (in 2020):
https://www.bose.com/en_us/better_with_bose/new-headphones.html

The 500 looks (and is claimed) to be smaller than the current SSF.


----------



## turbobb

hifi80sman said:


> Pass on the MEBUYZ.  MENOBUYZ.  MERETURNZ.



That's a shame, they looked pretty promising going by the specs. I'm in a holding pattern now waiting unless something truly tempting comes along... ;o)


----------



## Caipirina

clerkpalmer said:


> Looks like Bose is updating the SS Free lineup and ANC is coming as well.
> 
> https://www.bose.com/en_us/better_w...5691&cjevent=e10683ab821a11e983ef05c30a240614
> 
> Still a while out however.  Presumably others will beat them to the punch.



Ooooooooh, this is the kind of pre-release info I was looking for ... 

and as a Bose fan boy .. I need to start saving ... so, 400$ for those over ears 700 (while I am still perfectly happy with my QC35, also, the HP 700 are not foldable?) 

and then those EB 500 ... and of course the EB 700 as soon as they hit the street!!!


 

Kinda like that Bose decided on a new naming scheme ... but whatever happened to 300 ... or 100 ???


----------



## d3myz

Dani157 said:


> Thanks for your recommendations. So T1c are ip5 and anbes 359 are ip6. Both should  be fine for rains. Will check both of them.


Just my thoughts after owning both for several months. I've done a lot of A/B test with both and they are both really excellent and not just for the price. The volume is much louder on the Anbes, they have a wider bass freq. range and definitely hit harder than the QCY. The real issue for me is the fit of the anbes, I don't like using them as much due to the fit. They aren't quite as comfortable for me as the QCY's, I did get some of the Radio Shack large bore tips that I think it was Slater recommended they have a really long shaft on them and that seems to have helped a lot. As for connection and charging, I def. favor the Anbes. The QCY's often have intermittent connection issues and often when I adjust the volume on my phone they seem to go out of phase and the sound stage widens until I pause the track and play again. It's irritating, but for the $15 i paid for them i can't complaint. If you had to choose one, i'd say try both, then get what fits better, but i love the volume control and usb c quick charge on the anbes, the slim case is also excellent.


----------



## Barusu Lamperouge

d3myz said:


> Just my thoughts after owning both for several months. I've done a lot of A/B test with both and they are both really excellent and not just for the price. The volume is much louder on the Anbes, they have a wider bass freq. range and definitely hit harder than the QCY. The real issue for me is the fit of the anbes, I don't like using them as much due to the fit. They aren't quite as comfortable for me as the QCY's, I did get some of the Radio Shack large bore tips that I think it was Slater recommended they have a really long shaft on them and that seems to have helped a lot. As for connection and charging, I def. favor the Anbes. The QCY's often have intermittent connection issues and often when I adjust the volume on my phone they seem to go out of phase and the sound stage widens until I pause the track and play again. It's irritating, but for the $15 i paid for them i can't complaint. If you had to choose one, i'd say try both, then get what fits better, but i love the volume control and usb c quick charge on the anbes, the slim case is also excellent.



Thanks for your inputs. Will give both of them a shot if budget permits after my maniacal splurging on IEMs


----------



## hifi80sman

turbobb said:


> That's a shame, they looked pretty promising going by the specs. I'm in a holding pattern now waiting unless something truly tempting comes along... ;o)


Nice!  I MUST have all of them!  The ANC earbuds look very promising, especially since Bose has always delivered in terms of ANC tech.


----------



## clerkpalmer

I wish I understood the point of a PR on a product that will ship in "Late 2019" and "early 2020".  It's like it didn't even happen.  I would be genuinely excited by a SS Free with real ANC.  That would be amazing for the gym, bike and plane rides.  But by 2020 my guess is there will be numerous options available.  I do like bose as a company and feel like they do innovate unlike other companies.  But next time, don't tell me about it until it's 30 days away.  Rant over.


----------



## bubsdaddy

The 500 looks (and is claimed) to be smaller than the current SSF.[/QUOTE said:
			
		

> Well, I don't think it would be possible for them to be bigger. I look like Frankenstein when I wear mine. Since I only use them for running, it isn't a big deal. I'll probably get a set at some point. I usually wait until the refurbs are available at the Bose outlet stores.


----------



## X-Nemesis

Are there any Comply tips or foam tips that are compatible with the Sabbat e12's?  I just got these and while I'm very much enjoying the sound inside, when I take them outside with work and my ears start to perspire, none of the supplied tips stay in.  The iem's keep sliding out so I'm hoping to find some foamies that will fix this issue.


----------



## assassin10000

X-Nemesis said:


> Are there any Comply tips or foam tips that are compatible with the Sabbat e12's?  I just got these and while I'm very much enjoying the sound inside, when I take them outside with work and my ears start to perspire, none of the supplied tips stay in.  The iem's keep sliding out so I'm hoping to find some foamies that will fix this issue.



Measure the diameter of the nozzle. I'm guessing T400 or T200 will most likely fit.




assassin10000 said:


> For future reference, the aliexpress foam tips bore sizes.
> 
> Listed to fit:
> 3.0+ mm = T100
> ...


----------



## X-Nemesis

assassin10000 said:


> Measure the diameter of the nozzle. I'm guessing T400 or T200 will most likely fit.



Thanks for the help and good guess, they're T400's.


----------



## viva_360

Hey has anyone used the TRN BT20s with the KZ ZS5s? It seems the pre-formed hooks are so strong, i cant get the ZS5s to sit in my ears at all.


----------



## chinmie

viva_360 said:


> Hey has anyone used the TRN BT20s with the KZ ZS5s? It seems the pre-formed hooks are so strong, i cant get the ZS5s to sit in my ears at all.



use hair dryer or heat gun to form fit the wire


----------



## C_Lindbergh (May 30, 2019)

Hopefully Sennheiser will release a MK II on their True Momentum wireless this year... If they fix all the problems with the current version and add a bit more battery life they'd be perfect.

*Solving all the connection/battery drain problems
* Slightly adjust the gestures and enable us to customize them
* Add more battery life. If that's via the case or the actual earbuds is another question, preferably both, but at the same time I don't want to make the earbuds larger/heavier.
* Enable us to listen to 1 earbud independently
* Improve the ambient mode, for me it didn't really work unless the music was at a really low volume.

It shouldn't even been released in the first place with all the connection/battery issues, Sennheiser's reputation took a bump in my book because of it.


----------



## hifi80sman

C_Lindbergh said:


> Hopefully Sennheiser will release a MK II on their True Momentum wireless this year... If they fix all the problems with the current version and add a bit more battery life they'd be perfect.
> 
> *Solving all the connection/battery drain problems
> * Slightly adjust the gestures and enable us to customize them
> ...


Has there been any news of something to that effect?  It's always nice when a big name company has new releases.

Except for #3, I'd imagine all the other issues you mention could be cured with firmware updates.


----------



## GrindedDown

I’ve been looking for a TW that fits all of my wants: touch controls, ambient mode, great sound with some extra bass, usb-c, possibly multi-device connections, etc... A few come close, but miss. 

To keep me waiting and patient, I picked up the Sabbat E12 and the Anbes 359. The anbes has a really good quality of sound and one of the best sound stages I’ve heard in an iem. I love the bass response too. They are impressively small and decent in terms of comfort, not great, but decent. The earbud controls are the most unintuitive ive used.  Not only that, they are EXTREMELY uncomfortable to operate. It’s like jamming the earbud into my canal just to play or pause. Are there any 359 clones with touch controls?

The Sabbat E12s are incredibly comfortable and much smaller than they look from the pictures. Overall the sound is pretty good and I really like it. The bass really kicks hard and there is a ton of it. There is a decent bit of mid-bass bloat that bleeds into the mids leaving the lower mids sounding a touch muffled. Detailing is decent and soundstage is fine, but next to the anbes, soundstaging is unimpressive. Overall I really enjoy them, but I am a bass junkie. The buds themselves are some of the most comfortable earbuds I’ve ever worn. All other earbuds I’ve ever used require constant adjustment or quick fatigue, but so far not these. The click controls are significantly more comfortable to operate than the anbes. I imagine it’s because of the shape and the bud filling most of the ear. This leads the pressure being distribute along the ear and not just the canal. I also really like the styling of these. I got the silver chrome which looks nice and the shape is reminiscent of custom IEMs or something from Aurisonics. 


As far as my TOTL TW earbud, I want something with the sound of the anbes, the call quality of the AirPods or Jabra 65t, ambient pass-through, touch controls, and usb-c. The MTW seems like the best option so far, but issues leave me wanting to wait. Maybe the Bose 500 this year will fit the bill. Any recommendations for now?

Also, any ChiFi TW that offer a decent ambient pass-through mode?


----------



## mjb152

I use a smartwatch to control the volume and tracks for Spotify on the anbes 359 and it's quite a good experience. The default mode on the watch when Spotify is playing is to show the current track, so all I have to do is click my wrist and the controls are activated. 
Thought it might help others who are experiencing that awkward button pressing in ear problem


----------



## Slater

mjb152 said:


> I use a smartwatch to control the volume and tracks for Spotify on the anbes 359 and it's quite a good experience. The default mode on the watch when Spotify is playing is to show the current track, so all I have to do is click my wrist and the controls are activated.
> Thought it might help others who are experiencing that awkward button pressing in ear problem



What watch do you have?


----------



## mjb152

It's a Huawei watch 2, it didn't cost much and I found wear os infinitely better than the Samsung galaxy watch (they I sent back)


----------



## hifi80sman

GrindedDown said:


> I’ve been looking for a TW that fits all of my wants: touch controls, ambient mode, great sound with some extra bass, usb-c, possibly multi-device connections, etc... A few come close, but miss.
> 
> To keep me waiting and patient, I picked up the Sabbat E12 and the Anbes 359. The anbes has a really good quality of sound and one of the best sound stages I’ve heard in an iem. I love the bass response too. They are impressively small and decent in terms of comfort, not great, but decent. The earbud controls are the most unintuitive ive used.  Not only that, they are EXTREMELY uncomfortable to operate. It’s like jamming the earbud into my canal just to play or pause. Are there any 359 clones with touch controls?
> 
> ...


I've been looking at the Sabbat E12, but due to mixed reviews and high cost for Chi-Fi, I've not yet pulled the trigger.  Sound-wise, would you say they are a less detailed, more bassy version of the Anbes 359?  What about call quality?  I know they tout 4x mics (2 for noise reduction), but some report calls are not that great.  I find the Anbes 359 pretty decent for calls.


----------



## GrindedDown

mjb152 said:


> It's a Huawei watch 2, it didn't cost much and I found wear os infinitely better than the Samsung galaxy watch (they I sent back)



Good tip and good to know. I have an Apple Watch and am very happy with the Spotify app and it’s controls. It definitely works well enough. I suppose the big issue would then be for answering calls and having to push the button. They work, but still a pain. I might return them, but I really do enjoy the sound quality and I got them for $30 on sale from amazon. 



hifi80sman said:


> I've been looking at the Sabbat E12, but due to mixed reviews and high cost for Chi-Fi, I've not yet pulled the trigger.  Sound-wise, would you say they are a less detailed, more bassy version of the Anbes 359?  What about call quality?  I know they tout 4x mics (2 for noise reduction), but some report calls are not that great.  I find the Anbes 359 pretty decent for calls.



That is exactly how I would describe the e12. There is more bass presence and the mids are a little recessed and muddled. Separation, detail, and soundstage are much superior on the 359. Having said that, they are easy to listen to and they can get really loud. Call quality seems to be acceptable so far. I made one phone call with some background noise with no issue and did some voice recordings. Seem about on par with 359. For the added price, you get significantly better comfort (seriously wow), easier and more intuitive controls, and wireless charging which works perfectly. No comment on long term reliability, but so far so good. FWIW, I bought mine on eBay from a US seller for about $57, so I save a few bucks over amazon. The seller accepts returns for 30 days too. Probably easier to return through amazon if you don’t like them, but still a good price. Overall I’d say the price is worth it. The sound could be better, but it’s still pretty good and is a decent package deal. Plus the styling is rather cool imo.


----------



## GrindedDown

I’m also still in the burn in phase with the e12. The more I listen, the more I am liking them. Probably gonna set them up on a 10 hour loop of pink noise later to test battery life and burn in further. Btw, did I mention for the 50th time how comfortable they are?!


----------



## actorlife (May 30, 2019)

Looks like the Syllable S101 will be here by next week Monday-Wed, Hopefully. I do hope these are a better or as good version of my prized Anbes 359. Stay tuned for my thoughts.
More info: https://www.ebay.com/ulk/itm/293089766693


----------



## FYLegend

GrindedDown said:


> I’ve been looking for a TW that fits all of my wants: touch controls, ambient mode, great sound with some extra bass, usb-c, possibly multi-device connections, etc... A few come close, but miss.
> 
> To keep me waiting and patient, I picked up the Sabbat E12 and the Anbes 359. The anbes has a really good quality of sound and one of the best sound stages I’ve heard in an iem. I love the bass response too. They are impressively small and decent in terms of comfort, not great, but decent. The earbud controls are the most unintuitive ive used.  Not only that, they are EXTREMELY uncomfortable to operate. It’s like jamming the earbud into my canal just to play or pause. Are there any 359 clones with touch controls?
> 
> ...


Jabees Firefly comes to mind. Charges with Type C but sounds rather mediocre (only SBC), and there have been many QC  complaints like battery draining abruptly.


----------



## Elijah369

I'm looking for a balanced signature. 
I was considering KZ AS06, KZ ZS7 and CCA C10.  I almost bought the CCA C10 but saw wireless QCY QS2, Rockspace EB30, Haylou GT1 and Mifa x1. 

I have 30 bucks to throw away since I can't go through the trouble of replacing them once they're delivered. So I'd appreciate it if anyone can recommend me something. I don't mind if it's wired or not but the tws ones look good at that price


----------



## GrindedDown

FYLegend said:


> Jabees Firefly comes to mind. Charges with Type C but sounds rather mediocre (only SBC), and there have been many QC  complaints like battery draining abruptly.


 
Yes I was looking at those. The mediocre sound is kind of a turn off. They looked decent overall. Thanks for the heads up on issues, I’ll have to look more into them. 

I notice you have the 65t. What is your honest opinion of those, both for the features and the sound quality?


----------



## Lurk650

I'm sure it's been said but the Advanced Sound Model X is a great value IMO


----------



## DigDub

TFZ B.V2. Balanced armature driver, 6-8hrs battery life, volume control. Most Chinese reviews state they have controlled bass, fluid mids and smooth highs. And it's pretty cheap.


----------



## vstolpner

Hi all,
Been looking through this thread for last little while but can't quite see answers to my questions, hope fine of you can share in your vast experience in TWS IEMs.
I've been using Altec Lansing rebrands of UE SuperFi's (Knowles BA's} for over a decade now and love their sound - the clarity in highs and mids, the warmth of the sound with a very neutral signature, and the wide open soundstage.
Have tried them with the TRN BT20 adapters but those are quite cumbersome, hard to charge, and only have pause/play controls. Plus with my IEMs I can't even wear them properly so I look like Shrek with earrings... :-D
Have looked through many a review for 1More Stylish, Sabbat X12, etc but not sure what would be best at reproducing the sound of my UE IEMs.
Looking for:
- sound quality 
- charging case, ideally USB C, ideally compact
- good controls
- good isolation (I can use my UE's as earplugs when woodworking)
- under 100ms audio sync delay
- ideally around $50 mark, but if there's something really great I'd be ok to go up to $100

Many thanks in advance for your feedback!!!

PS: I've tried TRN V80's, which I've found to have too much of a V-shaped sound profile; Xiaomi Hybrid, which I like but doesn't have the clarity or soundstage I'm looking for


----------



## FYLegend

GrindedDown said:


> Yes I was looking at those. The mediocre sound is kind of a turn off. They looked decent overall. Thanks for the heads up on issues, I’ll have to look more into them.
> 
> I notice you have the 65t. What is your honest opinion of those, both for the features and the sound quality?



Unfortunately my 65t broke after about 5 months of use. The 65t has great utility (call quality, hear-through function and button controls are good) but falls short on comfort, isolation, durability and defects/quality control. Sound quality is good but also depends on what seal you get - the large tips give the optimal seal to hear the bass for me but were also very uncomfortable as the flange would flip back in my ear. I used medium tips and could still hear the bass at home but I start losing seal once I'm commuting. The overall sound is V-shaped with an emphasis on the upper-mids and highs, without sounding sibilant or fatiguing. When I can hear the bass, it's somewhat boomy and emphasized in the midbass. Charging case still uses microUSB, unfortunately but I suspect the next version will have Type C as the 85h has it. Many users have complained about volume imbalance, clipping distortion and hissing from the left bud, which no firmware update has been able to fix (last one was in December). I have this issue but don't know if it is system-wide. The _hissing_ is only imbalanced above a certain volume, while the volume imbalance and distortion happen regardless. The imbalance for me is slight (it sometimes "settles down" slightly after a few second of playback), but recently my right earbud died down in volume significantly. Sometimes pushing it into my ears cause the volume to come back briefly - I suspect the driver or internal connection has become damaged - I was noticing driver flex on the right bud out of the box.

Astrotec S60 (BT4.2) is my daily driver now but I'm considering getting the S60 BT5.0,  Sabbat E12 or Anbes 359. I'm wondering how's the volume of E12 and 359, although I suspect my Note 9 is keeping the volume low on the S60 (it sounds very loud through my laptop).


----------



## DigDub (May 31, 2019)

Pretty bright sounding. Ample bass for a balanced armature driver. Buttons are a tad tiny. LED doesn't light up when in use.

Edit: the led does blink very briefly at about 7 seconds intervals.


----------



## chinmie

DigDub said:


> Pretty bright sounding. Ample bass for a balanced armature driver. Buttons are a tad tiny. LED doesn't light up when in use.



how do you rank it between your collections?


----------



## BobJS

actorlife said:


> Looks like the Syllable S101 will be here by next week Monday-Wed, Hopefully. I do hope these are a better or as good version of my prized Anbes 359. Stay tuned for my thoughts.
> More info: https://www.ebay.com/ulk/itm/293089766693



Do you know what codecs this supports?  I couldn't find that info anywhere.


----------



## rhsauer

BobJS said:


> Do you know what codecs this supports?  I couldn't find that info anywhere.



apt-X and AAC


----------



## Caipirina

DigDub said:


> Pretty bright sounding. Ample bass for a *balanced armature driver*.



Where do you get the info from this has BA? That would makes this quite interesting ...


----------



## mag8

Just got my sabbat x12 after receiving suggestions here on the forum.
So far pretty happy, the fit is not the best because one of my ears is quite different from the other, so the tip Pierces a bit the ear. Silicone tip covers are coming, hopefully that works.

Pairing first time took exactly 1 try to make it work, and so far they connected automatically when I took them out of the case afterwards (not when you open the case).

Again, it only works if the left earbud is connected, does not work if only the right one is out of the case.

Microphone is so and so, not the best


----------



## DigDub

chinmie said:


> how do you rank it between your collections?


The controls are perfect for my need. I probably rank it in the top 2.


----------



## alleroy

Which model of fully wireless iem that has Bluetooth 5.0, noise canceling, and will fit so comfortably as to sleep with them would you suggest? I would like to use them to fall asleep in a noisy environment listening to some relaxing music instead of the rubber earplugs I am using now.


----------



## DigDub

Caipirina said:


> Where do you get the info from this has BA? That would makes this quite interesting ...


Most specifications online state it has balanced armature driver.

https://penonaudio.com/tfz-b.v2.html
https://drop.com/buy/tfz-b-v2-wireless-iem


----------



## actorlife

BobJS said:


> Do you know what codecs this supports?  I couldn't find that info anywhere.


Besides the AAC and Aptx like rh said. They also have a Dynamic and Balanced Amature in each earbud. I'm so excited to hear them.


----------



## Caipirina

actorlife said:


> Besides the AAC and Aptx like rh said. They also have a Dynamic and Balanced Amature in each earbud. I'm so excited to hear them.



Wait, what? That's the Syllable 101? Has also BA that's not advertized on AliX? Or did I miss something here?


----------



## Caipirina

Feel free to laugh at my newest addition to my TWS collection (well, once it arrives) 

 

and no, I did not 'buy' those ... I started playing the 'apply for freebies' game on AliX ... and out of ALL the audio gear I clicked on ... I got THIS ... 

Ah well, gift horse and such ... let's see just HOW bad this can actually be   And what are they smoking to ask for 27$ for this? most shops now ask for 5$ for the i7s plus some shipping ... 

Anyone else 'won' a freebie on AliX before?


----------



## Dcell7

DigDub said:


> Pretty bright sounding. Ample bass for a balanced armature driver.



Just got mine in blue and listened to it for a few minutes. It is indeed a tad bright and the bass is not bad. Hope i have more time the coming few days to use it more.


----------



## actorlife

Caipirina said:


> Wait, what? That's the Syllable 101? Has also BA that's not advertized on AliX? Or did I miss something here?


Yes I think RH posted it on his review. This is why I wanted to hear them besides the aptx.


----------



## Caipirina

actorlife said:


> Yes I think RH posted it on his review. This is why I wanted to hear them besides the aptx.



Which review would that be? I scrolled up and down and left and right ...    enlighten me with a link pls?


----------



## AtariPrime

https://gizmodo.com/these-are-the-very-best-truly-wireless-earbuds-1835118531

Another review that picks the Jabra Elite 65t as the best one the market.  

Ones they compared against: Airpods, M&D MW07, and Powerbeats Pro.

Aren't we due for an update to the 65t?


----------



## nc8000 (May 31, 2019)

AtariPrime said:


> https://gizmodo.com/these-are-the-very-best-truly-wireless-earbuds-1835118531
> 
> Another review that picks the Jabra Elite 65t as the best one the market.
> 
> ...



And UK What HiFi magazine has again crowned the old Sony WF-1000X as the best true wireless and the only one they feel they can reccomend. They rate the T65 as middle ground, not particularily good nor bad


----------



## AtariPrime (May 31, 2019)

Bose has a new version of the Soundsport Free coming later this year.  Pictured below, it will be known as the Bose Earbuds 500.  Note, there is also a 700 version coming that is a bit larger.

One of the issues with the prior version was the size of the earbuds.  This one seems to remedy that.  However, a critical flaw of Bose earbuds from my point of view is that they are not 'in-ear' they instead sit right at the entrance to your ear.  This results in diminished bass response but also tons of ambient nose entering the ear canal.  That was a dealbreaker for me on the SoundSport Free.  Oddly though, the SoundSport Free gets great reviews for the most part.  So, am I missing something there?  Do people want ambient noise entering the ear canal through the earbud?  I listen to mine mostly at the gym.  I need a good seal both to drown out the smooth jazz that the gym pumps through their speakers and the a-hole breaking gym rules by talking on his phone.  The 700 will have active noise cancelling, but I don't care about active noise cancelling in the least, I simply want ALL noise cancelled until I remove the earbud. Thoughts?


----------



## clerkpalmer

AtariPrime said:


> https://gizmodo.com/these-are-the-very-best-truly-wireless-earbuds-1835118531
> 
> Another review that picks the Jabra Elite 65t as the best one the market.
> 
> ...


The 65t is probably the best all around option for most people so I generally agree with the Gizmodo comparison. I still tend to grab mine when I need something that just plain works.  The case stays charged for ages, they have decent isolation and the sound is fine.


----------



## AtariPrime (May 31, 2019)

nc8000 said:


> And UK What HiFi magazine has again crowned the old Sony WF-1000X as the best true wireless and the only one they feel they can reccomend. They rate the T65 as middle ground, not particularily good nor bad



What HiFi gets paid to endorse various products.  I would not trust any reviews posted there.


----------



## clerkpalmer

AtariPrime said:


> Bose has a new version of the Soundsport Free coming later this year.  Pictured below, it will be known as the Bose Earbuds 500.  Note, there is also a 700 version coming that is a bit larger.
> 
> One of the issues with the prior version was the size of the earbuds.  This one seems to rememdy that.  However, a critical flaw of Bose earbuds from my point of view is that they are not 'in-ear' they instead sit right at the entrance to your ear.  This results in diminished bass response but also tons of ambient nose entering the ear canal.  That was a dealbreaker for me on the SoundSport Free.  Oddly though, the SoundSport Free gets great reviews for the most part.  So, am I missing something there?  Do people want ambient noise entering the earbud?  I listen to mine mostly at the gym.  I need a good seal both to drown out the smooth jazz that the gym pumps through their speakers and the a-hole breaking gym rules by talking on his phone.  The 700 will have active noise cancelling, but I don't care about active noise cancelling in the least, I simply want ALL noise cancelled until I remove the earbud. Thoughts?


The 700 is the most interesting version because the anc will address the very issue you describe. The ss free sound amazing in quiet environments but once the noise level increases it falls off fast. Adding anc will give the same great sound and comfort (they are amazingly comfortable) and presumably address the ambient sound issue. Sadly they appear to be a year away.


----------



## clerkpalmer

Crowing the now 2 year old 1000X as the best TW is bordering on malpractice. What a joke.


----------



## DigDub

Dcell7 said:


> Just got mine in blue and listened to it for a few minutes. It is indeed a tad bright and the bass is not bad. Hope i have more time the coming few days to use it more.


I changed to the tips that came with my qcy t1c and the brightness are tamed now. Very enjoyable sound. I removed the ear loop and was surprised to find that the casing is smooth all around which makes wearing the buds comfortable.


----------



## Caipirina

AtariPrime said:


> Bose has a new version of the Soundsport Free coming later this year.  Pictured below, it will be known as the Bose Earbuds 500.  Note, there is also a 700 version coming that is a bit larger.
> 
> One of the issues with the prior version was the size of the earbuds.  This one seems to remedy that.  However, a critical flaw of Bose earbuds from my point of view is that they are not 'in-ear' they instead sit right at the entrance to your ear.  This results in diminished bass response but also tons of ambient nose entering the ear canal.  That was a dealbreaker for me on the SoundSport Free.  Oddly though, the SoundSport Free gets great reviews for the most part.  So, am I missing something there?  Do people want ambient noise entering the ear canal through the earbud?  I listen to mine mostly at the gym.  I need a good seal both to drown out the smooth jazz that the gym pumps through their speakers and the a-hole breaking gym rules by talking on his phone.  The 700 will have active noise cancelling, but I don't care about active noise cancelling in the least, I simply want ALL noise cancelled until I remove the earbud. Thoughts?



Oh, how I feel you! The noise levels at gyms are terrible and phone talkers should be ... well, let's be nice ... they should not be talking on phones at the gym   

But I do love my Bose SSF, though I was skeptical at first as well. But now I love everything Bose puts out with the Stay Hear tips, like their ANC QC 20 ... and they do a fantastic job at cancelling out the noise without being jammed all the way till by eardrum.


----------



## Dcell7

DigDub said:


> I changed to the tips that came with my qcy t1c and the brightness are tamed now. Very enjoyable sound. I removed the ear loop and was surprised to find that the casing is smooth all around which makes wearing the buds comfortable.



I have changed tips too to small generic silicon tips from Ali. Did’t change much of the sound for me but i find them quite ok sounding so i won’t tip roll again.

Seems like there is no way to turn them off without putting them back in the box ?


----------



## DigDub

Dcell7 said:


> I have changed tips too to small generic silicon tips from Ali. Did’t change much of the sound for me but i find them quite ok sounding so i won’t tip roll again.
> 
> Seems like there is no way to turn them off without putting them back in the box ?


The buds can be manually turned off without the box. Disconnect the buds from the phone by turning off the phone's bluetooth. Then press and hold the buttons on each of the buds for 3 seconds and the bud will turn off. Else you can leave it disconnected from the bluetooth and it will automatically turn off in 5 minutes. These are not mentioned in the user guide.


----------



## Dcell7

DigDub said:


> The buds can be manually turned off without the box. Disconnect the buds from the phone by turning off the phone's bluetooth. Then press and hold the buttons on each of the buds for 3 seconds and the bud will turn off. Else you can leave it disconnected from the bluetooth and it will automatically turn off in 5 minutes. These are not mentioned in the user guide.



Thanks, just found it out myself that holding the buttons for 3 seconds does the trick. At the first try all it did was turning the volume when i was holding the buttons. I was probably doing it wrong.


----------



## rhsauer (May 31, 2019)

Caipirina said:


> Which review would that be? I scrolled up and down and left and right ...    enlighten me with a link pls?



If you’re referring to this RH, I don’t think I’ve ever said that one of the Syllable S101’s two drivers was a BA.  The Amazon UK listing says “dual dynamic drivers” (but it also says IPX7 and 12 hours battery life, so I’m not sure how accurate all the statements in those listings are).  It wouldn’t have surprised me if the bass driver (the woofer) was dynamic and the treble driver (the tweeter) was a balanced armature — but that’s not what that listing says, so what do I know.


----------



## vstolpner

Trying to decide between these, anyone have any pointers?

- Sabbat X12 / E12
- Astrotec S60
- 1More Stylish
- TFZ B.V2

Looking for a warm, neutral sound with a great soundstage. Don't care for overly powerful base.


----------



## AtariPrime (May 31, 2019)

https://restechtoday.com/cleer-audio-ally-earbud/

Another new on that popped up.  Cleer Audio Ally Earbud.

First thoughts:

1) Who?  I have never heard of this company.
2) Looks nice, small as well.
3) 10 hours of battery life...tell me more.

Anyone know anything about these or this company?


----------



## GrindedDown

FYLegend said:


> Unfortunately my 65t broke after about 5 months of use. The 65t has great utility (call quality, hear-through function and button controls are good) but falls short on comfort, isolation, durability and defects/quality control. Sound quality is good but also depends on what seal you get - the large tips give the optimal seal to hear the bass for me but were also very uncomfortable as the flange would flip back in my ear. I used medium tips and could still hear the bass at home but I start losing seal once I'm commuting. The overall sound is V-shaped with an emphasis on the upper-mids and highs, without sounding sibilant or fatiguing. When I can hear the bass, it's somewhat boomy and emphasized in the midbass. Charging case still uses microUSB, unfortunately but I suspect the next version will have Type C as the 85h has it. Many users have complained about volume imbalance, clipping distortion and hissing from the left bud, which no firmware update has been able to fix (last one was in December). I have this issue but don't know if it is system-wide. The _hissing_ is only imbalanced above a certain volume, while the volume imbalance and distortion happen regardless. The imbalance for me is slight (it sometimes "settles down" slightly after a few second of playback), but recently my right earbud died down in volume significantly. Sometimes pushing it into my ears cause the volume to come back briefly - I suspect the driver or internal connection has become damaged - I was noticing driver flex on the right bud out of the box.
> 
> Astrotec S60 (BT4.2) is my daily driver now but I'm considering getting the S60 BT5.0,  Sabbat E12 or Anbes 359. I'm wondering how's the volume of E12 and 359, although I suspect my Note 9 is keeping the volume low on the S60 (it sounds very loud through my laptop).




Thanks for sharing your thoughts on the 65t. It sounds kind of promising, but with a bunch of compromises. That seems to be the trend with true wireless right now. It’s vrey exciting because the technology is finally solving most of the initial problems and things are sounding good, but every bud I have looked at there seems to be something of a compromise or issue. I g Jess the good news is that this next year or two should produce a few more real winners. Who knows, I may still pick up a 65t for fun if I find a good deal. Thanks again for that. 

The astros look pretty interesting. I used to love BA iems, but settled with dynamics just because of richness for sound. As for the max volume of E12 and Anbes, the E12 is one of the loudest I’ve tried in a while. I won’t dare touch max volume basically ever even in the noisiest of environments. The anbes reach a peak probably of about 5 dB below the E12 is I’m not mistaken. Just enough to get very loud, but not hurt my ears. Overall though, max volume on both is great. I’ll have to check the Anbes again, but with the e12, there is no distortion to my ears even at peak volume.


----------



## GrindedDown

vstolpner said:


> Trying to decide between these, anyone have any pointers?
> 
> - Sabbat X12 / E12
> - Astrotec S60
> ...


Skip the E12. I just got them and love them, but they are warm for sure with a lot of bass. Both in volume and depth. It bleeds a little into the mids so low pitched male vocals sound a touch muffled. The X12 from what I understand sound a bit different so don’t discount those until someone else chimes in , but the e12 might not be your cup of tea.


----------



## GrindedDown

Lurk650 said:


> I'm sure it's been said but the Advanced Sound Model X is a great value IMO


Yeah those are at the top of my list too. I’m curious to try them out. What are your thoughts or likes and dislikes about them?


----------



## actorlife

rhsauer said:


> If you’re referring to this RH, I don’t think I’ve ever said that one of the Syllable S101’s two drivers was a BA.  The Amazon UK listing says “dual dynamic drivers” (but it also says IPX7 and 12 hours battery life, so I’m not sure how accurate all the statements in those listings are).  It wouldn’t have surprised me if the bass driver (the woofer) was dynamic and the treble driver (the tweeter) was a balanced armature — but that’s not what that listing says, so what do I know.


My mistake then. Dual dynamic is still cool to have.


----------



## JimmyR

hifi80sman said:


> I've been looking at the Sabbat E12, but due to mixed reviews and high cost for Chi-Fi, I've not yet pulled the trigger.  Sound-wise, would you say they are a less detailed, more bassy version of the Anbes 359?  What about call quality?  I know they tout 4x mics (2 for noise reduction), but some report calls are not that great.  I find the Anbes 359 pretty decent for calls.



Been using the Sabbat E12 almost on a daily basis for a couple of months and for me it’s ticking every box: light and comfy, premium look, tiny (even Qi-fi wireless) charging case, battery life around 7 hours with around 30+ from the case, outstanding sound quality, with heavy bass, strong volume (I barely go beyond 75-80 before I feel I can hurt my ears), no delay whatsoever when watching any app videos...
The only “but” for me is the call quality...Its been the  the only down for  it so far : the people I’ve called told me that the volume is low and they hear every X seconds a kind of annoying buzzing sound (kind of microphonic) that I attribute somehow to a poorly implemented noise cancelling tech... That happened even myself being on a silent room while on the call. It can be ok for calls just to friends& family, but for me not acceptable for business calls.

Hope this helps

P.S: Havit has just launched a revised version of the G1, the G1 PRO that, on paper, does fix most of the weaks of the G1: stereo calls, touch controls, enhanced bass and lighter weight. Haven’t found any review yet, but they’re on my radar... just a handful of bucks more expensive that the older model 
I’d appreciate if anyone on the G1 can comment on, guess what, call quality 

The Tranya T3 mentioned by other folk some posts ago are getting my attention too.


----------



## CrusaderIce

Hey Guys!

 Been lurking here since I got my first pair of tws in December, the funcl w1s, for $15 on Indiegogo. Now that I've had a taste I'm ready to upgrade. Currently looking at the anbes 359 (30  on amazon) or the soundcore liberty neo (42). I just got an email yesterday from Indiegogo for the pamu slide and was wondering if anyone has had any experience with their previous products. It looks interesting with the qcc3020 and reverse wireless charging, but im not sure about the form factor since I use these primarily for the gym. Anyways, looking forward to going down the rabbit hole with y'all.


----------



## hifi80sman

JimmyR said:


> Been using the Sabbat E12 almost on a daily basis for a couple of months and for me it’s ticking every box: light and comfy, premium look, tiny (even Qi-fi wireless) charging case, battery life around 7 hours with around 30+ from the case, outstanding sound quality, with heavy bass, strong volume (I barely go beyond 75-80 before I feel I can hurt my ears), no delay whatsoever when watching any app videos...
> The only “but” for me is the call quality...Its been the  the only down for  it so far : the people I’ve called told me that the volume is low and they hear every X seconds a kind of annoying buzzing sound (kind of microphonic) that I attribute somehow to a poorly implemented noise cancelling tech... That happened even myself being on a silent room while on the call. It can be ok for calls just to friends& family, but for me not acceptable for business calls.
> 
> Hope this helps
> ...


That's a killer for me.  The Sabbat E12 sounds like a winner EXCEPT for the calls; I routinely use them for business.

Anyone find any gems out there around the $30 range?  Already have the Anbes 359, so no need to mention that one!


----------



## natalieann

I still swear by the beoplay e8 with comply sport pro tips


----------



## actorlife

CrusaderIce said:


> Hey Guys!
> 
> Been lurking here since I got my first pair of tws in December, the funcl w1s, for $15 on Indiegogo. Now that I've had a taste I'm ready to upgrade. Currently looking at the anbes 359 (30  on amazon) or the soundcore liberty neo (42). I just got an email yesterday from Indiegogo for the pamu slide and was wondering if anyone has had any experience with their previous products. It looks interesting with the qcc3020 and reverse wireless charging, but im not sure about the form factor since I use these primarily for the gym. Anyways, looking forward to going down the rabbit hole with y'all.


I have the Funcl W1 and really like them SQ wise, but not having volume control is why I went for the anbes. It does everything better including a beautiful soundstage, tight bass and clearer treble. Price wise $30-45 you won't find anything better imho. Some say they sound better than some $250+ tws.


----------



## CrusaderIce

actorlife said:


> I have the Funcl W1 and really like them SQ wise, but not having volume control is why I went for the anbes. It does everything better including a beautiful soundstage, tight bass and clearer treble. Price wise $30-45 you won't find anything better imho. Some say they sound better than some $250+ tws.


Thanks for the response! I'm basically sold on the 359, only thing holding back is that the funcl sometimes falls out in the gym when im doing certain exercises. I'm wondering if a pair of tws with wingtips would work better. Have you found the 359 to stay in better?


----------



## nc8000

natalieann said:


> I still swear by the beoplay e8 with comply sport pro tips



Yes they do sound good but in the end the many left unit micro cut outs killed them for me


----------



## FYLegend

GrindedDown said:


> Thanks for sharing your thoughts on the 65t. It sounds kind of promising, but with a bunch of compromises. That seems to be the trend with true wireless right now. It’s vrey exciting because the technology is finally solving most of the initial problems and things are sounding good, but every bud I have looked at there seems to be something of a compromise or issue. I g Jess the good news is that this next year or two should produce a few more real winners. Who knows, I may still pick up a 65t for fun if I find a good deal. Thanks again for that.
> 
> The astros look pretty interesting. I used to love BA iems, but settled with dynamics just because of richness for sound. As for the max volume of E12 and Anbes, the E12 is one of the loudest I’ve tried in a while. I won’t dare touch max volume basically ever even in the noisiest of environments. The anbes reach a peak probably of about 5 dB below the E12 is I’m not mistaken. Just enough to get very loud, but not hurt my ears. Overall though, max volume on both is great. I’ll have to check the Anbes again, but with the e12, there is no distortion to my ears even at peak volume.


They're quite bassy for a BA driver. Not the deepest but the mid-bass is punchy without sounding bloated, and the detail retrieval is great. They distort at max volume so I can only listen at 14/15 cleanly on my phone. I can't really fault Astrotec completely for it - seems to work better for iPhones an. After a cutout/skip, they start to sound "wider" and more distorted. This rarely happens with SBC if you're in close range but my phone is prone to cut-outs with AAC.  I'm wondering if the BT5.0 version improves on this although I do see one review on Amazon Japan suggesting there are still cutouts. The 65t is far less prone to cut-outs for normal use, although the ambient sound feature does increase the chance of cut-outs.

One thing keeping me from getting most TWS is the lack of AptX support, as laptops don't support it. Creative Outlier Air comes to mind but I've heard ups and downs about it. Does anyone have suggestions for a receiver that has this?


----------



## DigDub

The battery life on the TFZ b.v2 is really bad, totally unlike the 6-8hrs as claimed in the specifications. It's more like a little less than 3hrs which is bad. A pity given it sounds good.


----------



## Peddler

At the moment the only APTx TWS earbuds I have any experience with are the Mavin Air-X. I'm extremely impressed with the sound quality they have once you figure out the best tips for you.

The only problem I have is that my phone (LG v20) defaults to AAC rather tha the APTx protocol. In all fairness though I struggle most of the time to truly tell the difference between the two protocols.


----------



## mikp

Peddler said:


> At the moment the only APTx TWS earbuds I have any experience with are the Mavin Air-X. I'm extremely impressed with the sound quality they have once you figure out the best tips for you.
> 
> The only problem I have is that my phone (LG v20) defaults to AAC rather tha the APTx protocol. In all fairness though I struggle most of the time to truly tell the difference between the two protocols.




same issue on lg g7, so some idiotic lg thing. set up a macro to auto change it.

yes, the mavins are good, but a little cheap feeling material.


----------



## Dcell7 (Jun 1, 2019)

DigDub said:


> The battery life on the TFZ b.v2 is really bad, totally unlike the 6-8hrs as claimed in the specifications. It's more like a little less than 3hrs which is bad. A pity given it sounds good.



I did take those numbers provided by the manufacturer with a grain of salt. Most TWS have a 2-4 hour battery life. I cannot imagine TFZ uses some kind of magic to double the battery life compared to the competition.

The connection is quite iffy. I can make the left bud cut out by putting my hand over my right ear/the right bud. No problems yet with losing connection with the phone though.


----------



## DigDub

Dcell7 said:


> I did take those numbers provided by the manufacturer with a grain of salt. Most TWS have a 2-4 hour battery life. I cannot imagine TFZ uses some kind of magic to double the battery life compared to the competition.
> 
> The connection is quite iffy. I can make the left bud cut out by putting my hand over my right ear/the right bud. No problems yet with losing connection with the phone though.


Do you experience the battery level drops from 60% to 30%  then to flat in around 15 mins? The battery flat warning will come up about 2 times then go flat rapidly.


----------



## chinmie

DigDub said:


> Do you experience the battery level drops from 60% to 30%  then to flat in around 15 mins? The battery flat warning will come up about 2 times then go flat rapidly.



you might have a defective battery? 
i had experience like this with my sabbat e12: first time i got it it can go to around 4 or 5 hours,but the next day only 2 hours, and degrading fast the  few next days until it cannot hold a charge any more..but it only affect the left (master) piece. the right one is still fine to use for hours. if that's the case you might want to open a dispute with the seller


----------



## tayo15

I popped the filters from my NT01x, what would be a good replacement sq wise? It seems these get less cooverage now. Any recomendations?


----------



## webvan

JimmyR said:


> P.S: Havit has just launched a revised version of the G1, the G1 PRO that, on paper, does fix most of the weaks of the G1: stereo calls, touch controls, enhanced bass and lighter weight. Haven’t found any review yet, but they’re on my radar... just a handful of bucks more expensive that the older model
> I’d appreciate if anyone on the G1 can comment on, guess what, call quality



Still no volume control though that's annoying.

Battery life seems shorter at 3hours per https://www.jd.ru/product/650680681.html ?

I rarely use my G1s that I got for 30€ on Amazon.de as I have better options (65T for travels and X12 for sports) but when I do they don't disappoint.


----------



## nc8000

webvan said:


> Still no volume control though that's annoying.
> 
> Battery life seems shorter at 3hours per https://www.jd.ru/product/650680681.html ?
> 
> I rarely use my G1s that I got for 30€ on Amazon.de as I have better options (65T for travels and X12 for sports) but when I do they don't disappoint.



Yes I liked my G1, what killed it in the end for me was lack of ambient mode


----------



## Dcell7

DigDub said:


> Do you experience the battery level drops from 60% to 30%  then to flat in around 15 mins? The battery flat warning will come up about 2 times then go flat rapidly.



I haven’t used them much so i can’t confirm your findings. I have used them today for 20 mins and that is the maximum for so far. 

I mostly use TWS for short periods. Like when i have to vacuum the house or when i commute on my bike to work. A single ride is  like 20 mins.


----------



## RobinFood

tayo15 said:


> I popped the filters from my NT01x, what would be a good replacement sq wise? It seems these get less cooverage now. Any recomendations?



You popped the filters? They can pop? Like a balloon, or what happened?


----------



## bubsdaddy

AtariPrime said:


> Bose has a new version of the Soundsport Free coming later this year.  Pictured below, it will be known as the Bose Earbuds 500.  Note, there is also a 700 version coming that is a bit larger.
> 
> One of the issues with the prior version was the size of the earbuds.  This one seems to remedy that.  However, a critical flaw of Bose earbuds from my point of view is that they are not 'in-ear' they instead sit right at the entrance to your ear.  This results in diminished bass response but also tons of ambient nose entering the ear canal.  That was a dealbreaker for me on the SoundSport Free.  Oddly though, the SoundSport Free gets great reviews for the most part.  So, am I missing something there?  Do people want ambient noise entering the ear canal through the earbud?  I listen to mine mostly at the gym.  I need a good seal both to drown out the smooth jazz that the gym pumps through their speakers and the a-hole breaking gym rules by talking on his phone.  The 700 will have active noise cancelling, but I don't care about active noise cancelling in the least, I simply want ALL noise cancelled until I remove the earbud. Thoughts?



I use mine for running. I need a bit of awareness as I run in the street so letting some outside sound in fits my use case. I find the bass satisfying but I do hate the size.


----------



## tayo15

RobinFood said:


> You popped the filters? They can pop? Like a balloon, or what happened?



I accidentally got some earwax on them and tried cleaning it out....


----------



## RobinFood

tayo15 said:


> I accidentally got some earwax on them and tried cleaning it out....



Sorry to hear, I usually use those plastic brushes that come with electric shavers to get the wax off.
What were you using when it popped?
Did the sound change? Maybe it is covered by the warranty, if you want I can ask Nuarl about it if it, and if so it might be worth paying shipping to get them fixed.


----------



## Slater

tayo15 said:


> I accidentally got some earwax on them and tried cleaning it out....



Are you talking about nozzle filters? If so, you can change those out on most IEMs. They just peel and stick on. There’s different styles and diameters on Aliexpress, and they cost a few pennies each.


----------



## actorlife

CrusaderIce said:


> Thanks for the response! I'm basically sold on the 359, only thing holding back is that the funcl sometimes falls out in the gym when im doing certain exercises. I'm wondering if a pair of tws with wingtips would work better. Have you found the 359 to stay in better?


I don't workout, but a couple folks said they stay in during high intensity workouts. Mine never fell out. You won't regret getting the Anbes. Out of the five I own it's my fav. Amazon sometimes has them for $30 lightning sale.


----------



## vstolpner

Anyone had audio sync issues with Astrotec S60 BT5.0?

Also, think the price premium is worth it over Anbes 359?


----------



## Caipirina

clerkpalmer said:


> Crowing the now 2 year old 1000X as the best TW is bordering on malpractice. What a joke.



THESE old guys? I was wondering why back then I could get them that cheap ...  Well, they kinda work and don't sound to bad, but getting them back into the case so they will charge correctly can be finicky 
Can't say I give them a lot of play time


----------



## mikp

Libratone Track Air + released   comments say apt-x is not working


----------



## nc8000

Caipirina said:


> THESE old guys? I was wondering why back then I could get them that cheap ...  Well, they kinda work and don't sound to bad, but getting them back into the case so they will charge correctly can be finicky
> Can't say I give them a lot of play time



Yep that’s the ones they again this month crown the best true wireless on the market and the only one they can fully recommend


----------



## Caipirina

So, this talk about the Sony WF1000X made me get them out again .. had been maybe 10 days? and sure enough, all batteries were totally drained! (ok, I had tried new tips, so maybe that created non-ideal charging circumstances) 

On the other hand, my LEZII x12, also aside for about 2 weeks, have been playing in my ears now for over 1h (allegedly it only does 1.5h per charge) ... and I am still super impressed with the sound signature, the sound stage, and I really don't mind the "press both buttons at the same time for 3 seconds" to fire them up .. always works! I guess the 14mm driver is to blame for great performance? 

Within my limited stable of TWS I would rank them #2 after my Bose SSF  (not too impressed with either of my Sonys, the above and the SPOON, I mean SP700N   my Jabras are dead, those Miniso Roman something are cute and will working emergency buds ...


----------



## hifi80sman

Peddler said:


> At the moment the only APTx TWS earbuds I have any experience with are the Mavin Air-X. I'm extremely impressed with the sound quality they have once you figure out the best tips for you.
> 
> The only problem I have is that my phone (LG v20) defaults to AAC rather tha the APTx protocol. In all fairness though I struggle most of the time to truly tell the difference between the two protocols.


Did you go to the BT settings for that specific item and "Enable High Quality Audio"?  Also, you can enable Developer Options to manually toggle it.


----------



## hifi80sman

Caipirina said:


> So, this talk about the Sony WF1000X made me get them out again .. had been maybe 10 days? and sure enough, all batteries were totally drained! (ok, I had tried new tips, so maybe that created non-ideal charging circumstances)
> 
> On the other hand, my LEZII x12, also aside for about 2 weeks, have been playing in my ears now for over 1h (allegedly it only does 1.5h per charge) ... and I am still super impressed with the sound signature, the sound stage, and I really don't mind the "press both buttons at the same time for 3 seconds" to fire them up .. always works! I guess the 14mm driver is to blame for great performance?
> 
> Within my limited stable of TWS I would rank them #2 after my Bose SSF  (not too impressed with either of my Sonys, the above and the SPOON, I mean SP700N   my Jabras are dead, those Miniso Roman something are cute and will working emergency buds ...


Sony can definitely make better TWEs than the 1000X or SP700N.  Nether are bad by any means, but they have some weaknesses that seem to be consensus deal killers for most (poor battery, weak ANC that serves to kill the battery, and, uh, poor battery).  The sound is "good", but I wouldn't say it's anything special for what they are charging, especially if something like the Anbes 359 for $30, sound better (IMO).

Hopefully, Sony has something in the works with USB-C, aptX, LDAC, and at least 4 hours battery life.  I know they are all about their ANC tech, but a good seal is generally sufficient for most situations.


----------



## Inear

GrindedDown said:


> Yeah those are at the top of my list too. I’m curious to try them out. What are your thoughts or likes and dislikes about them?




I have a pair, they're great. Better than the Jabra 65t I had. The control gestures, work great, connect easily. The only issue I've had was the left earpiece stopped working once or twice and I had to hard reset. Also, sometimes the quality coming from Spotify would more bass producing, but Soundclound and my own mp3 app on Pixel 2XL works really well. So I think it may be an issue with Spotify.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

Looks like there haven't been any new players in the game. Guess I'll stay with the Senn MTW.


----------



## vstolpner

Dcell7 said:


> I have ordered these one on Aliexpress. I will probably receive them this or next week. I'll try to give a brief impression when i have the chance to listen to them.



Any feedback on the quality of the TFZ's?


----------



## Dcell7 (Jun 1, 2019)

vstolpner said:


> Any feedback on the quality of the TFZ's?



Search this topic, there are several posts already by me and another member @DigDub


----------



## vstolpner

Dcell7 said:


> Search this topic, there are several posts already by me and another member @DigDub



Any chance you can point me to those? Have been searching for a while and haven't found anything...?


----------



## Dcell7

vstolpner said:


> Any chance you can point me to those? Have been searching for a while and haven't found anything...?



Post 7181, 7191, 7193, 7214, 7215, 7220 of this thread contains information about the TFZ B.V2


----------



## alleroy

Since my original question got no answer I try to rephrase it simpler: is there any fully wireless iem with good insulation which you would suggest to fall asleep with?


----------



## Caipirina

alleroy said:


> Since my original question got no answer I try to rephrase it simpler: is there any fully wireless iem with good insulation which you would suggest to fall asleep with?



This is exactly what I would love to have as well, but I think technology is still a bit off on that ...  The Bose Sleepbuds are first indicators of things to come .. it is amazing how small they are and it's so easy to fall asleep with them ... they are just not really music earphones (yet)


----------



## silverfishla

alleroy said:


> Since my original question got no answer I try to rephrase it simpler: is there any fully wireless iem with good insulation which you would suggest to fall asleep with?


If you sleep on your side, sleep between two pillows with your ear in the crease.  Otherwise, I haven’t seen a pair of tws flat enough.


----------



## vstolpner

Dcell7 said:


> Post 7181, 7191, 7193, 7214, 7215, 7220 of this thread contains information about the TFZ B.V2



Thank you!

Any more impressions? How's the sound signature? Soundstage? And any latency?


----------



## chinmie

alleroy said:


> Since my original question got no answer I try to rephrase it simpler: is there any fully wireless iem with good insulation which you would suggest to fall asleep with?



from what I have, the mifo o5, sabbat x12, and the Earin M2 are flush enough in the ears to sleep with. no isolation on the x12 though


----------



## chinmie

Caipirina said:


> So, this talk about the Sony WF1000X made me get them out again .. had been maybe 10 days? and sure enough, all batteries were totally drained! (ok, I had tried new tips, so maybe that created non-ideal charging circumstances)
> 
> On the other hand, my LEZII x12, also aside for about 2 weeks, have been playing in my ears now for over 1h (allegedly it only does 1.5h per charge) ... and I am still super impressed with the sound signature, the sound stage, and I really don't mind the "press both buttons at the same time for 3 seconds" to fire them up .. always works! I guess the 14mm driver is to blame for great performance?
> 
> Within my limited stable of TWS I would rank them #2 after my Bose SSF  (not too impressed with either of my Sonys, the above and the SPOON, I mean SP700N   my Jabras are dead, those Miniso Roman something are cute and will working emergency buds ...



other than the puny battery life and the useless noise cancelling mode, the WF1000X still is one of my most favorite sounding TWS. if only Sony can upgrade the battery life to today's standard...


----------



## Dcell7

vstolpner said:


> Thank you!
> 
> Any more impressions? How's the sound signature? Soundstage? And any latency?



I did not have much time to test it yet. I think @DigDub has some more impressions.


----------



## nc8000

alleroy said:


> Since my original question got no answer I try to rephrase it simpler: is there any fully wireless iem with good insulation which you would suggest to fall asleep with?



The Earin M2 works great for that but don’t seem to be available any longer. I have no problem sleeping on my side with my head on the pillow with these.


----------



## Slater

chinmie said:


> other than the puny battery life and the useless noise cancelling mode, the WF1000X still is one of my most favorite sounding TWS. if only Sony can upgrade the battery life to today's standard...



If you can open the shell, you could upgrade the battery to a current generation lipo cell. It should be a drop in replacement, assuming you can find the right sized cell.


----------



## bronco1015

JimmyR said:


> Hi,guys.
> I’ve been lurking over here for quite a time, but this is my first post.
> I read many good things about the Anbes 359 on SQ,but how about the mic quality for calls? How well the person at the other end can hear you?
> Got the Sabbat E12 a couple of months ago and while I’m happy with it in many aspects, the call quality is clearly subpar,even in silent environments. Definitely not good for business calls (low and with an annoying buzzing sound in the background that I’ve seen also in some YT reviews).
> ...


hey, if you happened to have gotten an answewr on call quality i appologize, but wanted to throw my experience out there if it were needed. Like Hifi 80s man said, call quality in a quiet environment is pretty good, but i rode a shuttle bus to see some fmaily and my sister could only hear the sound of the bus when she called me both times. those aere the only 2 calls i had but needless to say, i won't be using these for calling. they are however, really nice otherwise, and are a pair i have fallen asleep while wearing multiple times in the 10 days i've had them.


----------



## bronco1015

alleroy said:


> Since my original question got no answer I try to rephrase it simpler: is there any fully wireless iem with good insulation which you would suggest to fall asleep with?


I've had the ambes 359 for a week and a half and have fallen asleep with them in. i think they work pretty well for that.


----------



## RobinFood (Jun 2, 2019)

Looks like demos are out here in Japan for the Fostex TM2, here is a blog with some first impressions from the earphone store.

https://e-earphone.blog/?p=1314737

Keep in mind that this is a store blog, and they are trying to sell stuff, but a brief translated summary of the case is that it is big enough to hold custom IEMs, in this case the AAW A3H.

Description of the sound with the stock earphones:

A natural sound with a tight bass. Vocals and mids are forward. The highs are quite extended. Compared to other true wireless earbuds it is one of the best, has good separation, and gets loud enough.

Description with the AAW A3H:

It seems more than powerful enough to run the triple driver efficiently. The original boominess of the A3H seems tamed but very pleasant. They sound much better than with the stock earphones, but that is a given.

Priced in Japan at around 30,000 yen, so I expect the US to be getting it for about 250$. Their official release date is end of June. I hope I have a little time to try them out this month!

The case does look huge though, and at first I thought they looked ridiculous, but the look is slowly growing on me...

Edit: It's already been released but sold out. Next shipment is due end of June. This is not uncommon though in Japan, I have a feeling that the companies do on purpose to sell them out at first...


----------



## zozito

Qcy qs1 vs qs2. Any noticeable difference far more than 1 hour more of battery by charge? Thank you.


----------



## BobJS

silverfishla said:


> If you sleep on your side, sleep between two pillows with your ear in the crease.  Otherwise, I haven’t seen a pair of tws flat enough.


I've had no problems with the sabbats being flat enough.


----------



## Caipirina

nc8000 said:


> The Earin M2 works great for that but don’t seem to be available any longer. I have no problem sleeping on my side with my head on the pillow with these.


 The one problem I see with falling asleep with TWE in is that some time in the middle of the night some nice lady's voice will wake me up, asking for a battery charge, possibly in Chinese!


----------



## nc8000

Caipirina said:


> The one problem I see with falling asleep with TWE in is that some time in the middle of the night some nice lady's voice will wake me up, asking for a battery charge, possibly in Chinese!



Not the Earin, they just gracefully die


----------



## NLGGHZ (Jun 2, 2019)

Sorry to butt in but ive been holding out on purchasing a pair of truly wireless earbuds because whenever i did research every source would contradict one another, so I just want to know which truly wireless earbud you guys think is the best balance of low latency, battery life, style, and a bright sound signature with nice mids and highs but still some capable bass for under 100, or up to 150 if that provides an even better value.

Reading through this forum it seems the Sabbat E12 has lots of bass, but at the cost of mids/highs quality. This made me favor the Mifo o5 / TFZ x1e since they apparently have more detail, even considering their "pro" counterparts being the Mifo o5 professional and the TFZ x1 apparently giving up more bass than i'd like.

THEN I found the Funcl AI which blatantly advertise low latency and APTx, whereas the others do not. I'm kind of going insane trying to decide and currently am leaning most toward the TFZ x1e.


----------



## alleroy

Caipirina said:


> The one problem I see with falling asleep with TWE in is that some time in the middle of the night some nice lady's voice will wake me up, asking for a battery charge, possibly in Chinese!


Is it not possibile with any model to set some timer to power them off?


----------



## alleroy

nc8000 said:


> The Earin M2 works great for that but don’t seem to be available any longer. I have no problem sleeping on my side with my head on the pillow with these.


Does anybody know the reason why they are already out of stock? As far as I know they are just seven months old.


----------



## chinmie

NLGGHZ said:


> Reading through this forum it seems the Sabbat x12 has lots of bass, but at the cost of mids/highs quality. This made me favor the Mifo o5 / TFZ x1e since they apparently have more detail, even considering their "pro" counterparts being the Mifo o5 professional and the TFZ x1 apparently giving up more bass than i'd like.



you mean the Sabbat E12 that has a lot bass? 

the X12 is more airy and neutral, with adequate bass


----------



## NLGGHZ (Jun 2, 2019)

chinmie said:


> you mean the Sabbat E12 that has a lot bass?
> 
> the X12 is more airy and neutral, with adequate bass


Sorry, I meant E12. These names are driving me crazy lmao. I was looking into the x12 but i cannot use the apple earpod-style fitment as my left ear just doesnt work with them.


----------



## howdy

alleroy said:


> Does anybody know the reason why they are already out of stock? As far as I know they are just seven months old.


I contacted them and they didn't say they would or wouldn't make more of the M2s but did say they are in the midst of making something new. Hopefully we'll see a M3 soon. I really love my M2s, they get used most days.


----------



## Caipirina

nc8000 said:


> And UK What HiFi magazine has again crowned the old Sony WF-1000X as the best true wireless and the only one they feel they can reccomend. They rate the T65 as middle ground, not particularily good nor bad



Wow, I see a pattern emerging ... I just came across WhatHifi's top 9 list for ANC, on which the WF1000x are #2 ("*REASONS TO AVOID: *Occasional sound dropout" ... hello? puny battery life? Finicky case?) 
, while Bose QC 35 and 25 end the list on #8 and #9 ... there are also 3 more Sonys on that list (above Bose) and of course, the M3 tops the list ... ("*REASONS TO AVOID: *Nothing significant" ... erm, not being able to pair to more than one device that the same time maybe??? Total deal breaker!)


----------



## Caipirina

NLGGHZ said:


> Sorry, I meant E12. These names are driving me crazy lmao. I was looking into the x12 but i cannot use the apple earpod-style fitment as my left ear just doesnt work with them.



That reminds me, I always wanted to ask if anyone has found earfins / 'fitments' that fit the X12 earbud style TWS on AliX? I tried some that were made for Airpods, but those did not fit. I remember reading that some iterations of X12's come with some ... but my searches on AliX have so far only shown stuff that fits Apple (and the vast family of clones)


----------



## GrindedDown

Caipirina said:


> Wow, I see a pattern emerging ... I just came across WhatHifi's top 9 list for ANC, on which the WF1000x are #2 ("*REASONS TO AVOID: *Occasional sound dropout" ... hello? puny battery life? Finicky case?)
> , while Bose QC 35 and 25 end the list on #8 and #9 ... there are also 3 more Sonys on that list (above Bose) and of course, the M3 tops the list ... ("*REASONS TO AVOID: *Nothing significant" ... erm, not being able to pair to more than one device that the same time maybe??? Total deal breaker!)


What TWEs are there that allow you to connect with more than one device at once. I know the Jabra 65t does it, but I don’t know of any else.


----------



## Caipirina

GrindedDown said:


> What TWEs are there that allow you to connect with more than one device at once. I know the Jabra 65t does it, but I don’t know of any else.



Oh, sorry, I might not have made that clear .. this is the overall ANC list, in which only the Sony WF1000X are representing TWEs ... all others are over ears / on ears full size headphones and my remark was regarding the Sony WH1000M3, which, admittedly has better ANC then the Bose over ears, but less comfort (IMHO) and if you want to switch between phone / computer you have to un-pair, re-pair each time ... 

As for TWEs .. i never even looked into that since I never felt the need to pair them with my computer


----------



## Caipirina (Jun 3, 2019)

Those look new. And while I find the shape and the price attractive ... in terms of technical specs it seems kinda ho-hum (Still BT 4.2 and NOT IPX anything)
My biggest turn of though is that I had 2 wired BT sport headsets from Remax die on me in a super short time ... maybe a QC issue ... soooo ... not going to be the guinea pig for this one  




By the way, found some 'real' photos from my old supplier SLAudio in Hanoi, that tone of red does look different in reality (more like a dark orange)  .. or it was just their light .. not sure ..

oh, link ...  this one is working, while the official remax store link goes to 'Ooooops. no can do'


----------



## Nailzs

Peddler said:


> At the moment the only APTx TWS earbuds I have any experience with are the Mavin Air-X. I'm extremely impressed with the sound quality they have once you figure out the best tips for you.
> 
> The only problem I have is that my phone (LG v20) defaults to AAC rather tha the APTx protocol. In all fairness though I struggle most of the time to truly tell the difference between the two protocols.


----------



## Nailzs

I have a LG G7 and if you set up Bluetooth to the device you want to connect with the G7 sets up the protocol correctly every time.
The same should be true with the V20.
Go to settings and turn on Bluetooth.You may get an alert box that pops up. Poke OK. You'll get a list of connected devices. On the right hand side of the device you connected poke the gear.
If you're using a device that uses high def codec's you'll get an option for connection type. Poke it.
Now you'll have two choices. Most Stable and Best Sound Quality which says "Listen in highest quality with the LDAC, aptX HD codec.
When using my Nuraphones a box pops up when I start playing music showing the Nuraphones are connected with aptX HD.


----------



## mikp

I also have the g7, and it sets the aac over apt-x. (not talking about apt-x hd and ldac)

So, if headphones have aac and apt-x, it would always revert to aac. Tried contacting lg about this issue, but good luck in that. So, its a specific problem with lg phones.


----------



## WesennTony

The same with my LG v30. It's specially annoying when paired with my Earin M2 since they have frequent dropouts (~every 15min) using AAC, while no dropout using apt-X. If I pair M2 with iPhone 5s (AAC) there is no dropout either.


----------



## nc8000

WesennTony said:


> The same with my LG v30. It's specially annoying when paired with my Earin M2 since they have frequent dropouts (~every 15min) using AAC, while no dropout using apt-X. If I pair M2 with iPhone 5s (AAC) there is no dropout either.



Yes Apple devices seem to handle aac connections much better than Android


----------



## WesennTony

I'm using Nuarl Nt01ax for a couple of days, and I'm very impressed. The SQ is on par with MW07, but I prefer the sound signature of Nt01ax. They're also more musical than Mavin air-x to my ears. Soundwise they're exactly what I'm looking for as TWE, though not the best for BT/IEM setup. The winner still goes to Earstudio ES100 paired with wired IEM. After mutual adaptions, they become quite comfortable, and the stocked eartips serve me very well with rich sound. I wish though they can be a bit smaller and have a better isolation. For yard work behind a noising mower, the Anbes 359 are still better. I'm afraid they will not be suitable for flight travel, but I'll test them on my flight tomorrow. Also as being mentioned here, one side of the earbud (can be either L or R) loses sound for no reason, requiring off/on operation. The BT signal penetrating a wall is not impressive, since my other TWEs, even cheaper Chi-Fis, are doing better.


----------



## hifi80sman

mikp said:


> I also have the g7, and it sets the aac over apt-x. (not talking about apt-x hd and ldac)
> 
> So, if headphones have aac and apt-x, it would always revert to aac. Tried contacting lg about this issue, but good luck in that. So, its a specific problem with lg phones.


I think what he was trying to say is there may be an option to change in settings.  So in Bluetooth Settings, go to the settings for the specific device that's connected.  There may be a field that says "Connection Type", hit that, and then select "Best Sound Quality".

If there is no option there to change it, you can manually toggle the codec under "Settings" and then "Developer Options".  If Developer Options are not enabled, you can easily Google how to do so with your specific model.


----------



## mikp

no such option for apt-x on lg. Have set up a macro that opens dev. options and change from aac to apt-x on affected gear.


----------



## Tonza

I've had the MW07 for a while now but a couple days ago when I started listening to the earphones I noticed that right side is quieter than left.

I've tested with couple devices and same thing. Also the left side has stronger hiss with the louder volume than right side.

Anyone experienced similar? Is there anything else to do than taking the for warranty repairs?


----------



## clerkpalmer

DigDub said:


> Do you experience the battery level drops from 60% to 30%  then to flat in around 15 mins? The battery flat warning will come up about 2 times then go flat rapidly.



The hiss is definitely worse on the left side.  Same for multiple pairs I have tried.  I haven't noticed any imbalance issues on them.  I have noticed imbalance on many TW however.  I sent a few Bose back for that issue.  If you can notice it, I would send them back.  Once I hear imbalance like that, I can't forget it.  It ruins the experience for me.


----------



## hifi80sman

clerkpalmer said:


> The hiss is definitely worse on the left side.  Same for multiple pairs I have tried.  I haven't noticed any imbalance issues on them.  I have noticed imbalance on many TW however.  I sent a few Bose back for that issue.  If you can notice it, I would send them back.  Once I hear imbalance like that, I can't forget it.  It ruins the experience for me.


Exchange it.

I've also noticed it's fairly common to have driver mismatch from big companies all the way down to the lowliest of Chi-Fi units.  I do notice, however, the occurrence rate in my experience (all headphones, not just TWEs) is much lower with Sony, Sennheiser, and Bose, but oddly, I've had probably a 50% driver mismatch rate with Audio-Technica.


----------



## mjb152 (Jun 3, 2019)

mikp said:


> no such option for apt-x on lg. Have set up a macro that opens dev. options and change from aac to apt-x on affected gear.


same for me on Samsung S9+ , is there a nice/easy way to run macros like this ?  Tasker or something similar ?

Balls I just checked and mine defaults to SBC,  when I change to aptX its fine, until the next track...then it defaults back to SBC


----------



## hifi80sman (Jun 3, 2019)

My Sabbat e12 arrived on Saturday and I've been using it since.  Not disappointed at all.  Love these things.

Bass is incredible, especially the sub-bass, but it maintains a nice, "round" character.  It does not come off as muddy at all.  To my ears, there is a slight recess in the mids, but low-treble seems to be good.  The upper treble region is certainly rolled off, so it doesn't have that "sparkle", however, I actually prefer this signature (treble sensitive, prefer low-treble emphasis, along with a tasteful sub-bass push).  REALLY like these things, in fact, they overtake the Anbes 359 for me in terms of Chi-Fi comparison.  Overall, shoot, these things are up there with the name brands when you look at the whole package (USB C, Qi charging, sound, build, AAC Codec).  Honestly, IMO, if one were to repackage these as the "Sennheiser MTW Neo" (consumer friendly line) mainstream "reviewers" would literally scream from the rooftops for everyone to buy these things.

These _*remind *_me of my B&W P7W, although with less detail retrieval.

I've only made a few calls, and yes, it's weaker than the Anbes 359 in that regard.  This may be due to the position of the mic, so I'm trying to angle them out a little more for better mic exposure.


----------



## GrindedDown

hifi80sman said:


> My Sabbat e12 arrived on Saturday and I've been using it since.  Not disappointed at all.  Love these things.
> 
> Bass is incredible, especially the sub-bass, but it maintains a nice, "round" character.  It does not come off as muddy at all.  To my ears, there is a slight recess in the mids, but low-treble seems to be good.  The upper treble region is certainly rolled off, so it doesn't have that "sparkle", however, I actually prefer this signature (treble sensitive, prefer low-treble emphasis, along with a tasteful sub-bass push).  REALLY like these things, in fact, they overtake the Anbes 359 for me in terms of Chi-Fi comparison.  Overall, shoot, these things are up there with the name brands when you look at the whole package (USB C, Qi charging, sound, build, AAC Codec).  Honestly, IMO, if one were to repackage these as the "Sennheiser MTW Neo" (consumer friendly line) mainstream "reviewers" would literally scream from the rooftops for everyone to buy these things.
> 
> ...


Glad to see that you picked them up and are really liking them. Yes they are a great and easy bud to listen to. Plenty of detailing and an overall good sound. I know I was giving my impressions a few days ago and I was mentioning some bleeding into the lower mids, but after burning them in for some period of time, it seems to have cleared up quite a bit and there is in fact less muddy lower-mid and more muddy sounds. I tested this by A/B testing between the E12 and the 359 on day one and then just yesterday after burning in with pink noise. 
Also agree about people shouting from the rooftops about these. These are some of the best TWE you can currently buy for the money I feel like. Improved call quality and features like an ambient sound mode are the only things that would push it over the edge into a top tier status. Maybe touch controls or an app with EQ? 


How do you like the comfort of them?


----------



## hifi80sman

GrindedDown said:


> Glad to see that you picked them up and are really liking them. Yes they are a great and easy bud to listen to. Plenty of detailing and an overall good sound. I know I was giving my impressions a few days ago and I was mentioning some bleeding into the lower mids, but after burning them in for some period of time, it seems to have cleared up quite a bit and there is in fact less muddy lower-mid and more muddy sounds. I tested this by A/B testing between the E12 and the 359 on day one and then just yesterday after burning in with pink noise.
> Also agree about people shouting from the rooftops about these. These are some of the best TWE you can currently buy for the money I feel like. Improved call quality and features like an ambient sound mode are the only things that would push it over the edge into a top tier status. Maybe touch controls or an app with EQ?
> 
> 
> How do you like the comfort of them?


Comfort is great.  Like you said, calls, ambient mode, and perhaps touch controls, it would be near perfect.  For the price, they’re winners.

Oh, and there is no annoying driver flex!


----------



## mjb152

do the sabatt e12 have wireless charging ?    anyone kow the best source from the uk ?  (or delivering to the uk)


----------



## hifi80sman

mjb152 said:


> do the sabatt e12 have wireless charging ?    anyone kow the best source from the uk ?  (or delivering to the uk)


They sure do.  USB C as well.

Best source, probably Amazon.  You can also get on AliExpress.


----------



## Nailzs

mikp said:


> no such option for apt-x on lg. Have set up a macro that opens dev. options and change from aac to apt-x on affected gear.



This is my LG G7.


----------



## Caipirina

hifi80sman said:


> My Sabbat e12 arrived on Saturday and I've been using it since.  Not disappointed at all.  Love these things.



What a ko-inki-dink! Mine arrived Saturday as well, but I have yet to arrive at my mailbox (next week!) 

But I am glad to read your impressions, after I already have a bit of buyer's remorse over some other items I ordered (like the BA Mifo O5, but who knows, I might end up liking them!)

Totally forgot they have wireless charging (one of the sellers on AliX even throws in a free charging pad as a gift .. but they are also 15$ more than the seller where I got them from) 

Hey, which color did you get? I went with that shiny copper / orange


----------



## vstolpner

Been checking out the Sabbat X12 Pro recently and one thing got me confused - are these balanced armature or dynamic drivers? Listing on Ali says BA but Amazon shows 14mm dynamic.
Anyone noticed this before or can shed some light on that?


----------



## assassin10000 (Jun 4, 2019)

Sabbat X12 Pro (earbud style) is dynamic.

Could you be looking at the Sabbat E12 on aliexpress instead? Or they messed up the listing which happens often. I think I saw one with the mifo pictured near the bottom of the listing which could be the BA version of the mifo.


----------



## webvan

AliExpress supplierShop4793015 Store(*Zhiqiang Lin*) has cooked up another excuse for the ridiculous delay in shipping my T8 TWS order from May 25th : "Hello dear, thanks for your order, We ship the goods in the order of payment time.There is so many people who paid their order before you ,it is unfair to them to send your package out firstly.we are preparing the shipment for you and we will send it out as soon as possible, after package been sent out you will know, please do no worry".

That guy looked flaky from the get go, probably best to cancel unless others have had better luck ?


----------



## david8613

I just got my email t8 tws saying it was shipped, waiting to receive her to give my thoughts, anyone got them yet?


----------



## webvan

Not me, see above, same seller as mine by any chance ? The search shows he's had 21 orders so not to lot to ship out.


----------



## david8613

yes same seller. let see if it gets delivered.


----------



## OnTheRoad

CrusaderIce said:


> Hey Guys!
> 
> Been lurking here since I got my first pair of tws in December, the funcl w1s, for $15 on Indiegogo. Now that I've had a taste I'm ready to upgrade. Currently looking at the anbes 359 (30  on amazon) or the soundcore liberty neo (42). I just got an email yesterday from Indiegogo for the pamu slide and was wondering if anyone has had any experience with their previous products. It looks interesting with the qcc3020 and reverse wireless charging, but im not sure about the form factor since I use these primarily for the gym. Anyways, looking forward to going down the rabbit hole with y'all.



I'm looking for wireless IEMs under $50. Someone recommened me the 'Pamu Slide' which launches on IGG in a few days time. Any opinions on this or their previous products and what better value I might get by going with a diffrent brand? Any input would be much appreciated! : ) 

https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/pamu-slide-born-for-music-never-fall-out/coming_soon


----------



## webvan

david8613 said:


> yes same seller. let see if it gets delivered.


It will take some time but can't see why it wouldn't if it says "shipped". Ok so I guess I'll give him a few more days in spite of the silly excuses he's been making for 10+ days now.


----------



## Caipirina

webvan said:


> AliExpress supplierShop4793015 Store(*Zhiqiang Lin*) has cooked up another excuse for the ridiculous delay in shipping my T8 TWS order from May 25th : "Hello dear, thanks for your order, We ship the goods in the order of payment time.There is so many people who paid their order before you ,it is unfair to them to send your package out firstly.we are preparing the shipment for you and we will send it out as soon as possible, after package been sent out you will know, please do no worry".
> 
> That guy looked flaky from the get go, probably best to cancel unless others have had better luck ?


I cancelled my order ... went with x&y 3c Store now, but they don’t seem much faster


----------



## hifi80sman

Caipirina said:


> What a ko-inki-dink! Mine arrived Saturday as well, but I have yet to arrive at my mailbox (next week!)
> 
> But I am glad to read your impressions, after I already have a bit of buyer's remorse over some other items I ordered (like the BA Mifo O5, but who knows, I might end up liking them!)
> 
> ...


I got the shiny black.  I like the more understated look.

I purchased the Mifo O5, Dynamic Driver Version, and wasn't impressed with the sound out of the box.  I didn't give it much more time because the buttons were really small and maddening to press, so I returned them.


----------



## actorlife

actorlife said:


> Looks like the Syllable S101 will be here by next week Monday-Wed, Hopefully. I do hope these are a better or as good version of my prized Anbes 359. Stay tuned for my thoughts.
> More info: https://www.ebay.com/ulk/itm/293089766693


Syllable S101 got here yesterday. Will do some testing for a couple of days and report back. Hooray.


----------



## vstolpner

actorlife said:


> Syllable S101 got here yesterday. Will do some testing for a couple of days and report back. Hooray.



Looking forward to it!


----------



## JimmyR

hifi80sman said:


> My Sabbat e12 arrived on Saturday and I've been using it since.  Not disappointed at all.  Love these things.
> 
> Bass is incredible, especially the sub-bass, but it maintains a nice, "round" character.  It does not come off as muddy at all.  To my ears, there is a slight recess in the mids, but low-treble seems to be good.  The upper treble region is certainly rolled off, so it doesn't have that "sparkle", however, I actually prefer this signature (treble sensitive, prefer low-treble emphasis, along with a tasteful sub-bass push).  REALLY like these things, in fact, they overtake the Anbes 359 for me in terms of Chi-Fi comparison.  Overall, shoot, these things are up there with the name brands when you look at the whole package (USB C, Qi charging, sound, build, AAC Codec).  Honestly, IMO, if one were to repackage these as the "Sennheiser MTW Neo" (consumer friendly line) mainstream "reviewers" would literally scream from the rooftops for everyone to buy these things.



Hey,you finally pulled the trigger on those. If only they make the mic better for calls. The only way that I’ve found to get myself well heard is to speak to the left earbud (that’s the mic that work only when both are paired) out of my ear and in close to my mouth. Definitely not the perfect solution. If only they can sort out this, they’ll sure be difficult to beat at that price range.

if you ask me, I’m fine with clicky buttons and, given the situation I’d prefer those over touch. I feel that with Chi-fi tech, the more complex, the higher chances they break. Also,even though they’re physical, they’re smooth and nice to click without having to stab your ears. These got it at the right point.

An app to EQ while nice, is a nice to have for me. I would prioritize other features such as multi device connection at a time.

Enjoy those Sabbats and their terrific bass!


----------



## hifi80sman

actorlife said:


> Syllable S101 got here yesterday. Will do some testing for a couple of days and report back. Hooray.


If you would be so kind as to contrast with the Anbes 359, that'd be much appreciated.


----------



## webvan

Caipirina said:


> I cancelled my order ... went with x&y 3c Store now, but they don’t seem much faster


OK, keep us posted. Since David8613's order got shipped I'll give it a couple more days...no rush since they're just to have a backup for me Leezzii X12


----------



## CrusaderIce

actorlife said:


> I don't workout, but a couple folks said they stay in during high intensity workouts. Mine never fell out. You won't regret getting the Anbes. Out of the five I own it's my fav. Amazon sometimes has them for $30 lightning sale.


Sold, just got them off of amazon for 30 plus change. 

All this talk about the sabbat e12 makes me want that too. Has anyone bought from GearVita? They have them on sale there for $43 + shipping and I’m seriously considering it.


----------



## actorlife

hifi80sman said:


> If you would be so kind as to contrast with the Anbes 359, that'd be much appreciated.


So far the Anbes is winning on soundstage and treble. Bass is great, but wanna see if it settles down some. They are a bit louder than the Anbes. I also wanna try different tips. Will do some overnite pink noise to see if any improvement. Have to test phone call quality. I know I will be asked. So far these sound a bit like the Sabbat X12 I used to own, but with a tad bit more clarity. Like I've said before I use these for Music/Youtube/Netflix mostly.


----------



## Veyska

Quick question, since I know at least one person here has the inventory to compare (hi @Slater )... People have said the QCY QS1/T1C has good detail, but how is it relative to, say, a CCA C10 or KZ ZSN (non-pro)?

Thanks! 

(Bonus round, though I'm a bit less interested based on cost & experience with how Bose's wireless earbuds for, Sabbat X12 Pro vs the aforementioned C10/ZSN?)


----------



## Slater (Jun 4, 2019)

Veyska said:


> Quick question, since I know at least one person here has the inventory to compare (hi @Slater )... People have said the QCY QS1/T1C has good detail, but how is it relative to, say, a CCA C10 or KZ ZSN (non-pro)?
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> (Bonus round, though I'm a bit less interested based on cost & experience with how Bose's wireless earbuds for, Sabbat X12 Pro vs the aforementioned C10/ZSN?)



QS1/T1C is not that technical. It’s a single dynamic micro driver. It sounds good for what it is, but it’s not going to compare to a 5 driver wired IEM. It also doesn't have that 'BA treble'. It's got a smooth, dynamic treble.

I’d say it’s pretty close to something like the EDR1 in sound profile and technical abilities. Which isn't a bad thing by any means.


----------



## Veyska

Slater said:


> QS1/T1C is not that technical. It’s a single dynamic micro driver. It sounds good for what it is, but it’s not going to compare to a 5 driver wired IEM. It also doesn't have that 'BA treble'. It's got a smooth, dynamic treble.
> 
> I’d say it’s pretty close to something like the EDR1 in sound profile and technical abilities. Which isn't a bad thing by any means.


Didn't expect it would be, just curious where it fell relative to. Leaning towards selling off my BT20 and half-tempted to get a standalone pair/set out of frustration with too many cable end types.  (Also pondering a receiver, but I can't quite give up on the notion that if I have to mess with Bluetooth I should get the benefits too...) And I'm relatively new to BA treble anyhow so not particularly attached to it, it's just that as long as the sound isn't too unbalanced I'm more concerned with detail than the exact signature.

Not sure I have that model, ATR/MH755 maybe? Those might have been better starting comparisons...


----------



## Slater

Veyska said:


> Didn't expect it would be, just curious where it fell relative to. Leaning towards selling off my BT20 and half-tempted to get a standalone pair/set out of frustration with too many cable end types.  (Also pondering a receiver, but I can't quite give up on the notion that if I have to mess with Bluetooth I should get the benefits too...) And I'm relatively new to BA treble anyhow so not particularly attached to it, it's just that as long as the sound isn't too unbalanced I'm more concerned with detail than the exact signature.
> 
> Not sure I have that model, ATR/MH755 maybe? Those might have been better starting comparisons...



They’re really cheap - why not get a pair to try out? I’m sure you won’t regret it. I love mine! I used it all day while cycling.


----------



## vstolpner

Just got a message from an Ali seller - said that the TFZ B.V2 are dynamic driver... Aren't they supposed to be balanced armature? Anyone can confirm?


----------



## bronco1015

mikp said:


> no such option for apt-x on lg. Have set up a macro that opens dev. options and change from aac to apt-x on affected gear.


i have only owned 1 bt dev where this would be applicable, the psb m4u8. i used it with my v20, v30 and v40, and i got that popup mentioned every time i initially paired the m4u8 to the phone. when i'd choose best sound quality the first time, i never had that prommpt again and when i'd connect them i'd get a little notification that said, ""connected using aptxhd audio. and in dev options it would say the same thing. i'd definitely upload a screenshot if i could, but i literally just sold my m4u8's last wednesday. But that's a great idea setting up a macro so you don't have to worry about that in the future.


----------



## mikp (Jun 5, 2019)

bronco1015 said:


> i have only owned 1 bt dev where this would be applicable, the psb m4u8. i used it with my v20, v30 and v40, and i got that popup mentioned every time i initially paired the m4u8 to the phone. when i'd choose best sound quality the first time, i never had that prommpt again and when i'd connect them i'd get a little notification that said, ""connected using aptxhd audio. and in dev options it would say the same thing. i'd definitely upload a screenshot if i could, but i literally just sold my m4u8's last wednesday. But that's a great idea setting up a macro so you don't have to worry about that in the future.



Theres no issue with apt-x hd I think, just normal apt-x. Why lg chooses aac first I have no clue.
Tried contacting lg about it, but how they handle updates that is of no use.

One other reason im waiting for apt-x hd tws. But theres no such product in the pipeline I guess.
The latest product released with qcc51xx series, Libratone  Track Air+, does only have sbc and may be later upgraded to non-hd apt-x. Also it seems to have very basic controls, only double tap.


----------



## Pro-Jules (Jun 5, 2019)

The dream list for me

Multi device Bluetooth pairing (to use a DAP & phone)
AptX HD or LDAC
Ability to ad eq (because I use Qobuz which  doesn't have a built in eq)

I think it's going to be a long wait....


----------



## OnTheRoad

Pamu Slide is live now: https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/pamu-slide-born-for-music-never-fall-out#/

Still not sure if I should get these for my first wireless IEMs. Will be used to listen to podcasts, audiobooks and a little music. Any thoughts are much appreciated!


----------



## jant71 (Jun 5, 2019)

I listen to podcasts and podcasts can have different file volumes. Audiobooks, music, and podcasts for sure there will probably need volume adjustment and the Slide is the stupid hold for volume deal. I, myself, would skip it for having no rewind and the need for hold for volume change. With touch control and if you just want that one volume notch change it may end up being frustrating if it over shoots and is finicky. I am not buying any model that isn't single tap volume and leaves out any track control even if only rewind. Slide seems good in many ways otherwise though.


----------



## webvan

mikp said:


> Theres no issue with apt-x hd I think, just normal apt-x. Why lg chooses aac first I have no clue.
> Tried contacting lg about it, but how they handle updates that is of no use.
> 
> One other reason im waiting for apt-x hd tws. But theres no such product in the pipeline I guess.
> The latest product released with qcc51xx series, Libratone  Track Air+, does only have sbc and may be later upgraded to non-hd apt-x. Also it seems to have very basic controls, only double tap.



So the Libratone is out at last ! Found a review here https://www.chiphell.com/thread-2002570-1-1.html  that I translated with Chrome. 
They didn't find it very comfortable but they were pretty impressed with the ANC even though they didn't find it as good as on the QC35. There is a mention of the SBC only although it's supposed to have APTX...that should come with an OTA update ?


----------



## Caipirina

webvan said:


> OK, keep us posted. Since David8613's order got shipped I'll give it a couple more days...no rush since they're just to have a backup for me Leezzii X12


Still very curious about differences/similarities to Lezii x12. I wonder if this cheapo also has a 14mm driver... maybe only way to find out is to open them. And I am not a mod-guy. Let’s first see if they sound similar. Still very much enjoying the vast soundstage of the Lezii. 

And then compare them to THOSE earbud style babies 


 

And speaking of cheaaap TWE ... I was just too curious and ordered those guys as well


----------



## clerkpalmer

webvan said:


> So the Libratone is out at last ! Found a review here https://www.chiphell.com/thread-2002570-1-1.html  that I translated with Chrome.
> They didn't find it very comfortable but they were pretty impressed with the ANC even though they didn't find it as good as on the QC35. There is a mention of the SBC only although it's supposed to have APTX...that should come with an OTA update ?



Looks pretty cool.  But no APTX or AAC is a deal breaker.  I wouldn't expect ANC to compete with something like QC35 but hopefully it's better than the Sony TWs.


----------



## Soreniglio (Jun 5, 2019)

Guys...

My Creative Outlier Air are broken, again.

The new pair worked like a charm for a week, and today when I tried to use them, the left earphone was muffled and really low compared to the right one.

Last time it was the right one, doing the same thing.

I'm getting annoyed.

I sent an e-mail, in which I also asked if it was possible to receive a pair of bigger ear tips.

Let's see what happens...


----------



## CrusaderIce

OnTheRoad said:


> Pamu Slide is live now: https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/pamu-slide-born-for-music-never-fall-out#/
> 
> Still not sure if I should get these for my first wireless IEMs. Will be used to listen to podcasts, audiobooks and a little music. Any thoughts are much appreciated!



I ended up deciding against it for a couple reasons.

Looking back at their last couple campaigns you can see several dissatisfied backers they haven’t responded to. The wireless charging option is $70, and at that price you have quite a few options that at least have been tried on here. For me personally, not looking for the AirPods look as I use these mostly at the gym. Also their big selling feature is the reverse wireless charging which I feel will be basically useless. At best it’s going to trickle to your phone and completely deplete the battery on the case.


----------



## vstolpner (Jun 5, 2019)

vstolpner said:


> Just got a message from an Ali seller - said that the TFZ B.V2 are dynamic driver... Aren't they supposed to be balanced armature? Anyone can confirm?



Just talking to myself here....

Update: TFZ B.V2 are no longer Balanced Armature 
This was confirmed by Ali sellers "The Fragrant Zither Official Store" and by "Penon Audio Store"
New design is a 6mm dynamic (the posting specs have just been updated too: Vocalism Principle - Dynamic)


----------



## actorlife

actorlife said:


> So far the Anbes is winning on soundstage and treble. Bass is great, but wanna see if it settles down some. They are a bit louder than the Anbes. I also wanna try different tips. Will do some overnite pink noise to see if any improvement. Have to test phone call quality. I know I will be asked. So far these sound a bit like the Sabbat X12 I used to own, but with a tad bit more clarity. Like I've said before I use these for Music/Youtube/Netflix mostly.



I used the Anbes eartips and the sound greatly improved on the Syllable S101. The treble was more sparkly and bass was more powerful and hard hitting, although the soundstage was still not as big as the Anbes 359. Hopefully they will open up. I left them to burn-in and will try different tips tonight. I will also test the battery to see if it reaches 8hrs. Still I'm satisfied with them for the price so far.


----------



## Caipirina

vstolpner said:


> Just talking to myself here....
> 
> Update: TFZ B.V2 are no longer Balanced Armature
> This was confirmed by Ali sellers "The Fragrant Zither Official Store" and by "Penon Audio Store"
> New design is a 6mm dynamic (the posting specs have just been updated too: Vocalism Principle - Dynamic)



I remember I asked pretty much the same question and some nice soul here pointed at 2 sources, one was the specs on (mass)drop. 

So, thanks for clarifying this, that there is a V2

Now it’s down to only the AstroTec S60 and the Mifo O5 pro for BA I guess?


----------



## vstolpner

Caipirina said:


> I remember I asked pretty much the same question and some nice soul here pointed at 2 sources, one was the specs on (mass)drop.
> 
> So, thanks for clarifying this, that there is a V2
> 
> Now it’s down to only the AstroTec S60 and the Mifo O5 pro for BA I guess?



That would appear to be the case - unless you want to go with a TRN BT20 and your favourite IEM's, but that doesn't have a case and is a pain to charge.

I'm actually debating between the S60 and O5 Pro myself - what are your thoughts?

PS: from what I read, TRN is working on a BT20S, and KZ is working on a similar competitor as well - should be out later this year.


----------



## vstolpner

actorlife said:


> I used the Anbes eartips and the sound greatly improved on the Syllable S101. The treble was more sparkly and bass was more powerful and hard hitting, although the soundstage was still not as big as the Anbes 359. Hopefully they will open up. I left them to burn-in and will try different tips tonight. I will also test the battery to see if it reaches 8hrs. Still I'm satisfied with them for the price so far.



Which ones sit better in the ear / are more comfortable?


----------



## Slater

vstolpner said:


> PS: from what I read, TRN is working on a BT20S, and KZ is working on a similar competitor as well - should be out later this year.



While I like KZ, they have always struggled with reliable Bluetooth stuff. I wouldn’t hold your breath.


----------



## actorlife (Jun 5, 2019)

vstolpner said:


> Which ones sit better in the ear / are more comfortable?


They are both comfy equally. The Syllable stick out a bit, but not too bad as I thought. The Anbes don't stick out at all.
From these pictures it looks like the battery could be easily replaced:
https://m.aliexpress.com/item/32997...d=1486amp-9FZ2ADpsHg_0nMftBUeneg1559754163432

These seem to be the same as the Syllable, but cost over $50 and less battery life: https://www.blitzwolf.com/BlitzWolf...X4-Waterproof,-Magnetic-Absorption-p-340.html


----------



## vstolpner

actorlife said:


> They are both comfy equally. The Syllable stick out a bit, but not too bad as I thought. The Anbes don't stick out at all.



What about call quality?


----------



## actorlife

vstolpner said:


> What about call quality?


I will let you know tonight. I do know that the Anbes has good call quality. But I will try both and see who does a better job.


----------



## Caipirina

vstolpner said:


> That would appear to be the case - unless you want to go with a TRN BT20 and your favourite IEM's, but that doesn't have a case and is a pain to charge.
> 
> I'm actually debating between the S60 and O5 Pro myself - what are your thoughts?
> 
> PS: from what I read, TRN is working on a BT20S, and KZ is working on a similar competitor as well - should be out later this year.



I actually enjoy the BT20 a LOT. They totally rekindled my passion for my IEMs and are too blame for many more that are now in the mail. I saw the announcement for the bt20s and they should drop on AliX any day now. Let’s see when KZ has theirs ready. 

I will be able to share my thoughts on the Mifo 05 pro in about a week. From what I read so far, the BA does not seem to elevate them to ‘must have’ ... let’s see


----------



## vstolpner

Caipirina said:


> I will be able to share my thoughts on the Mifo 05 pro in about a week. From what I read so far, the BA does not seem to elevate them to ‘must have’ ... let’s see



I'm actually very curious about that - saw some reviews of the standard version, but my taste leans towards the BA sound profile vs. dynamic. Let me know what you find!

Also, sorry if you mentioned before, but what are you pairing with your BT20's?


----------



## rhsauer

actorlife said:


> I will let you know tonight. I do know that the Anbes has good call quality. But I will try both and see who does a better job.



Glad to see someone else bought the Syllables.  I’m still really enjoying them.  One of the things I like about them is that you can use a large variety of tips without worrying about the case failing to close.  I’ve been using the V-Moda “Bliss Fittings” tips (https://www.v-moda.com/us/en/products/bliss-fittings), which fit my ears so well I can almost forget I’m wearing earphones, and really sound terrific across the spectrum.  I’ve also used the Comply Comfort Plus tips (the 400 size works perfectly) and they also sound great — but I like the Bliss tips slightly better.  The SpinFit CP-100s work great too.  Lots of options.


----------



## mikp

rhsauer said:


> Glad to see someone else bought the Syllables.  I’m still really enjoying them.  One of the things I like about them is that you can use a large variety of tips without worrying about the case failing to close.  I’ve been using the V-Moda “Bliss Fittings” tips (https://www.v-moda.com/us/en/products/bliss-fittings), which fit my ears so well I can almost forget I’m wearing earphones, and really sound terrific across the spectrum.  I’ve also used the Comply Comfort Plus tips (the 400 size works perfectly) and they also sound great — but I like the Bliss tips slightly better.  The SpinFit CP-100s work great too.  Lots of options.



Also a plus that it supports different tips with the charging case, like the mavins. I use spinfit 145 I think, with foam added to them. 

So many tws have have trouble with different tips, and space for them in the case. Another thing to look for if apt-x hd sets becomes available.


----------



## Slater

mikp said:


> Also a plus that it supports different tips with the charging case, like the mavins. I use spinfit 145 I think, with foam added to them.
> 
> So many tws have have trouble with different tips, and space for them in the case.



Agreed. All these companies have to do is make the part of the case where the tips goes a little roomier. Then it could accommodate a wide variety of ear tips. It wouldn't be hard, nor would it cost any more money. It's just in the way they mold the plastic in the bottom of the case.


----------



## Caipirina

vstolpner said:


> Also, sorry if you mentioned before, but what are you pairing with your BT20's?


. 

Mainly my iPhone 

Oh, not what you wanted? Ok, best pairing I get these days with the KZ AS06. Sounds fantastic and noise isolation is superb! 

But I am quite active with changing things up. In .75mm flavor I have a bunch more: KZ zs5, trn v20, kz zs3 & on the earbud side the Rose Masya   
I also ordered the MMCX version of the BT20 for a few more options I have


----------



## actorlife

rhsauer said:


> Glad to see someone else bought the Syllables.  I’m still really enjoying them.  One of the things I like about them is that you can use a large variety of tips without worrying about the case failing to close.  I’ve been using the V-Moda “Bliss Fittings” tips (https://www.v-moda.com/us/en/products/bliss-fittings), which fit my ears so well I can almost forget I’m wearing earphones, and really sound terrific across the spectrum.  I’ve also used the Comply Comfort Plus tips (the 400 size works perfectly) and they also sound great — but I like the Bliss tips slightly better.  The SpinFit CP-100s work great too.  Lots of options.


I felt the Eartips that came with them sounded too closed in and depleted the treble as lifeless. With Anbes tips they sounded alot clearer. Gonna test with other tips and see if I can get a better soundstage. Have you tried them with an android box, fire stick or HD mp3/ Flac player?


----------



## rhsauer

actorlife said:


> I felt the Eartips that came with them sounded too closed in and depleted the treble as lifeless. With Anbes tips they sounded alot clearer. Gonna test with other tips and see if I can get a better soundstage. Have you tried them with an android box, fire stick or HD mp3/ Flac player?



I use the Syllable S101s with my iPhone and Mac.  I’ve tested that they connect using AAC on the iPhone and either AAC or aptX on the Mac, depending on the Bluetooth Explorer settings I use.  They definitely don’t sound lifeless to me.  I’ve been working at my desk most of the day today, and I’ve been listening to them for extended periods.  Because of the very strong bass, the sound is lush, warm, and non-fatiguing.  But even though the bass is pronounced, because of the separate drivers (perhaps), the bass doesn’t muddy the mids or highs and the treble is still very much present.  They just have a very easy, enjoyable sound.  I don’t want to completely lose credibility on this site by admitting this, but I actually enjoy listening to these Syllables more than I enjoy listening to my Sennheiser MTWs — probably because they fit better and I get a much better seal (amplified by the fact that they cost literally 1/10 of what the Sennheisers cost, which appeals to my frugal nature).


----------



## Slater (Jun 5, 2019)

rhsauer said:


> I don’t want to completely lose credibility on this site by admitting this, but I actually enjoy listening to these Syllables more than I enjoy listening to my Sennheiser MTWs — probably because they fit better and I get a much better seal (amplified by the fact that they cost literally 1/10 of what the Sennheisers cost, which appeals to my frugal nature).



Credibility isn’t about having the most expensive gear. Unless you’re the member at an exclusive stuck-up luxury yacht club (who wears white Polo shirts with the arms of a sweater tied around the neck).

It’s exactly what you admitted - being open minded enough to find gear you like, and recognizing that you don’t always have to spend a lot of money to do so. And then sharing your unbiased impressions with others.

That gives you more credibility than anything in my mind.


----------



## actorlife

rhsauer said:


> I use the Syllable S101s with my iPhone and Mac.  I’ve tested that they connect using AAC on the iPhone and either AAC or aptX on the Mac, depending on the Bluetooth Explorer settings I use.  *They definitely don’t sound lifeless to me*.  I’ve been working at my desk most of the day today, and I’ve been listening to them for extended periods.  Because of the very strong bass, the sound is lush, warm, and non-fatiguing.  But even though the bass is pronounced, because of the separate drivers (perhaps), the bass doesn’t muddy the mids or highs and the treble is still very much present.  They just have a very easy, enjoyable sound.  I don’t want to completely lose credibility on this site by admitting this, but I actually enjoy listening to these Syllables more than I enjoy listening to my Sennheiser MTWs — probably because they fit better and I get a much better seal (amplified by the fact that they cost literally 1/10 of what the Sennheisers cost, which appeals to my frugal nature).


I meant lifeless with the included tips. They shine better with other tips for sure.


----------



## vstolpner

Caipirina said:


> .
> 
> Mainly my iPhone
> 
> ...



Oh I'm sorry you have to put up with an iPhone.... 

I use my 12-ish year old Altec Lansing UHP336's (UE SuperFi's rebrand) that I absolutely love. But I want to check out KZ ZS7's and AS06's too. Going to wait for BT20S's and see what else is good at be that time.

Btw, tried the V80's but they hissed horribly with BT20.


----------



## chinmie

actorlife said:


> I felt the Eartips that came with them sounded too closed in and depleted the treble as lifeless. With Anbes tips they sounded alot clearer. Gonna test with other tips and see if I can get a better soundstage. Have you tried them with an android box, fire stick or HD mp3/ Flac player?



does the anbes and syllable uses regular iem tips (and still fits on yhe charger) or does it have to use that typical shorter TWS tips?


----------



## chinmie

Caipirina said:


> I actually enjoy the BT20 a LOT. They totally rekindled my passion for my IEMs and are too blame for many more that are now in the mail. I saw the announcement for the bt20s and they should drop on AliX any day now. Let’s see when KZ has theirs ready.
> 
> I will be able to share my thoughts on the Mifo 05 pro in about a week. From what I read so far, the BA does not seem to elevate them to ‘must have’ ... let’s see



you know what the Mifo excels at for me? it's a great showering TWS 
it's the only one that I'm comfortable enough to be using in that situation without fearing it would die on me. soundwise, it sounds good at higher volume, so i only use it occasionally because it's not healthy for the ears

I'm eyeing on the Syllable, but also holding off to see the next BT20 version. if it's good, i think i would buy a couple for my mmcx iem and earbud. i wish it has volume control and better charging system. 

I'm thinking of buying those detachable magnetic charging cable to make my TRN charge easier


----------



## Slater

chinmie said:


> I'm thinking of buying those detachable magnetic charging cable to make my TRN charge easier



That’s how I charge mine. The nice thing is that I no longer have to worry about pushing the micro USB plug into the shell.

I use 2 separate magnetic cables, and plug them into an old USB hub.

One of these days I’m gonna cut the cable apart and make a splitter cable like the stock one. But for now the hub gets the job done.


----------



## rhsauer

actorlife said:


> I meant lifeless with the included tips. They shine better with other tips for sure.



Agree -- the tips they ship with the Syllables didn't work for me at all


----------



## rhsauer

chinmie said:


> does the anbes and syllable uses regular iem tips (and still fits on yhe charger) or does it have to use that typical shorter TWS tips?



Both earphones are pretty flexible as far as tips are concerned -- the Syllables a bit more so. Both take standard replacements that, generally, fit into the charger.  I'm using SpinFit CP100Z tips on my Anbes and they fit in the case fine.  Most anything works on the Syllables.


----------



## vstolpner

chinmie said:


> I'm thinking of buying those detachable magnetic charging cable to make my TRN charge easier



That's an awesome idea! Can't believe I didn't think of it before!

Totally buying those tonight!


----------



## rhsauer

Slater said:


> Credibility isn’t about having the most expensive gear. Unless you’re the member at an exclusive stuck-up luxury yacht club (who wears white Polo shirts with the arms of a sweater tied around the neck).
> 
> It’s exactly what you admitted - being open minded enough to find gear you like, and recognizing that you don’t always have to spend a lot of money to do so. And then sharing your unbiased impressions with others.
> 
> That gives you more credibility than anything in my mind.



aw shucks ... thanks


----------



## actorlife (Jun 6, 2019)

Are the Syllable better than the Anbes? No imho. Syllable are still a good choice, but the treble is rolled off which is not bad, but I like the treble to be sparkly clear, but not piersing. Not having a soundstage did not bother me cause I have other TWS that don't, but they all have a sparkly treble, except for the cheapo 4.2. Syllable remind me of the Sabbat X12 I used to own, which I had to return cause the right side had no sound after a couple of days. Call quality(stereo) was great and just as good as the Anbes. The Syllable for some reason won't do Stereo on my android phone with any movie app or YouTube. Only with the phone call I made both were L/R were working, but not if I put on YouTube, Netflix, prime, etc. only the right side works. I tried resetting them, but still only right side working. RH can you check on someone's android phone and see if this happens as well? Anbes works great on my phone and everything is in stereo, so it's  weird it works on everything else, but not on my phone. Syllable worked fine on my Cayin N3, android box, android tablet and firestick in stereo.


----------



## zerstorer

No such problems with the syllable for me. I don't have an issue with the stock tips either. The thing is they open up significantly after burn in. I wouldn't try to change anything or evaluate them until.at least 100hrs of playing.


----------



## mikp

actorlife said:


> Are the Syllable better than the Anbes? No imho. Syllable are still a good choice, but the treble is rolled off which is not bad, but I like the treble to be sparkly clear, but not piersing. Not having a soundstage did not bother me cause I have other TWS that don't, but they all have a sparkly treble, except for the cheapo 4.2. Syllable remind me of the Sabbat X12 I used to own, which I had to return cause the right side had no sound after a couple of days. Call quality(stereo) was great and just as good as the Anbes. The Syllable for some reason won't do Stereo on my android phone with any movie app or YouTube. Only with the phone call I made both were L/R were working, but not if I put on YouTube, Netflix, prime, etc. only the right side works. I tried resetting them, but still only right side working. RH can you check on someone's android phone and see if this happens as well? Anbes works great on my phone and everything is in stereo, so it's  weird it works on everything else, but not on my phone. Syllable worked fine on my Cayin N3, android box, android tablet and firestick in stereo.



No stereo problem with syllable and lg g7 here. The soundstage is narrower than mavins, but I have no problem with the sound. Little boomy maybe, but 30$ for apt-x and qualcomm qcc3020..no brainer. 

They fit fine, and case and buds take selection of eartips.


----------



## n05ey

What is the battery life like on the syllable? Is it 8-10hrs including case recharges or per recharge?


----------



## vstolpner

@actorlife 
Any reason to go for the Syllables over the Anbes?


----------



## Caguioa

So whats verdict on best ones right now or ones that are coming soon?

I really don't want to buy the air pods,


----------



## Bhelpoori (Jun 6, 2019)

Thanks to @actorlife, I have both the Anbes 359 and Syllable 101. Following are my first thoughts:
1. I prefer the Syllable sound for most music. The soundstage is about the same as my Ety 4P and 4XR, so not great. The Anbes has better soundstage but even with that, I still prefer the Syllable.
2. Whilst I can get AptX on my Mac, it doesn't work on my Android where whatever I do it ends up at AAC. I'm going to dig a bit deeper to find out why, but the Syllable does definitely tell Android it has AptX...
3. AptX uses significantly more power than AAC on the Syllable. I'd guess somewhere around 20-25%. I don't think there's that much difference that it warrants the power suck so now force the Mac to AAC for it.
4. Agree with the comments on the Syllable Tips, though don't buy the Spinfit CP240s as they are just too big for the case unless you use an elastic band to close it.
5. I find the Anbes slightly more comfortable, prefer the shape and the stock tips work for me.
6. I prefer the Anbes for the podcasts I listen to.
7. The Anbes case is lighter, more fun and more convenient for me than the Syllable. OTOH the Syllable case is friendlier to different tips, as even the stock Anbes large tips occasionally cause the phones to not connect with the case properly.
8. The battery life of the Syllable is so good that I just keep them out and connected. The Anbes is good enough though and the battery in the case is good enough as well. The Syllables are just way better on battery life of the phones and case which means they will likely last me longer.
9. Call Quality.  I have used both of them to call a lot since that's a big part of my job. Anbes in a quiet environment is clearer but the sensitivity to noise to greater as it picks up almost any noise around you including even your breathing sometimes. The Syllables in a quiet environment sound acceptable, aren't anywhere near so sensitive so you need to speak louder, but can work in a car and with some wind, which the Anbes can't. Neither work acceptably when walking by a busy suburban street: The Anbes picking up everything around, whilst the Syllable's try and suppress the background sound but also sometimes suppress your voice too. At home it is the Anbes, outside it's the Syllables, but there are lots of places outside and inside where neither are really acceptable to me.
10. On my Android phone I use volume at about 40% with the Syllable, whilst on my iPhone 8 it is about 2-3 notches from minimum (so maybe 15%?). It is more with the Anbes.
11. I prefer the USB-C that the Anbes uses though you can't power it directly from a USB-C PD charger, you need a USB-A to C cable, which isn't a problem for me.
12. If I compare to my AirPods v1, I prefer to use either the Anbes or Syllable, as both are as convenient and I couldn't really live with the fit and outside noise the AirPods let in.


----------



## mjb152

vstolpner said:


> That's an awesome idea! Can't believe I didn't think of it before!
> 
> Totally buying those tonight!


intrigued , got a link to any I can look at ?


----------



## chinmie

Slater said:


> That’s how I charge mine. The nice thing is that I no longer have to worry about pushing the micro USB plug into the shell.
> 
> I use 2 separate magnetic cables, and plug them into an old USB hub.
> 
> One of these days I’m gonna cut the cable apart and make a splitter cable like the stock one. But for now the hub gets the job done.



which type of magnetic charger do you use? can you post a picture of it on the BT20?


----------



## chinmie

QCY T3 review:

https://www.gizmochina.com/2019/06/05/qcy-t3-tws-bt-earphones-review-better-than-the-qcy-t1/?amp


----------



## Slater (Jun 6, 2019)

chinmie said:


> which type of magnetic charger do you use? can you post a picture of it on the BT20?



I don’t have my BT20 currently. I lent it to my brother as he’s thinking of buying one. I’ll post a picture when I get it back. It might be a few weeks though.

As far as the cable, I’m using the PZOZ 90 degree one.




The reason why I like the 90 degree ones is that they don’t pull out the little charge piece when you unplug it.



I used to have a different brand for my phone (called X-something, or something-X), and because of the magnet usually when I would unplug it post charging the adapter piece would pull out of the phone too. So I used to unplug it by using a perpendicular motion to get the magnet to release but not pull out the piece. You can see an example of the perpendicular unplugging motion here:



As far as a photo, it looks just like this (picture the BT20 instead of the phone):



The little adapter piece is very small, and you can barely see it when it’s installed. It is silver though (be the black BT20 body). You could hit it with a light coat of black spray paint if you wanted, but I don’t care.

Here’s the dimensions of the little piece, so you can get an idea of the size of the adapter:



I will also mention that some of the magnetic cables are round instead of rectangular, but I would think those would be more noticeable when installed on the BT20.

Another cool thing about the PZOZ is that an optional case is available for the little adapters. They are easily misplaced, so the case is nice to store them in. The cable can also be used with multiple types (such as lightning and microusb), so the case could be used to carry one of each so you always had what you’d need.



I’ll also mentioned that I wish I had got the red one, because it has an LED light that shows you it’s connected and charging. The black one didn’t come with the built in LED.



Finally, as far as cost, you can buy just the little adapter pieces. Since you need 2 pieces to charge the BT20, that saves you $$.


----------



## chinmie

Slater said:


> I don’t have my BT20 currently. I lent it to my brother as he’s thinking of buying one. I’ll post a picture when I get it back. It might be a few weeks though.
> 
> As far as the cable, I’m using the PZOZ 90 degree one.
> 
> ...



nice! thanks for the detailed explanation! 
i also browsing for the angled version because i want to make a glorified charging stand for the BT20, but I'm on the fence whether i choose the more flattened version like the ones you use or round one like this:


----------



## actorlife

n05ey said:


> What is the battery life like on the syllable? Is it 8-10hrs including case recharges or per recharge?


I got about 7hrs battery with 50-70 percent volume.


----------



## actorlife

zerstorer said:


> No such problems with the syllable for me. I don't have an issue with the stock tips either. The thing is they open up significantly after burn in. I wouldn't try to change anything or evaluate them until.at least 100hrs of playing.


Thanks I will give them time. They are good but like I said the clarity is a issue for me. Since my Cayin N3 has aptx I had better expectations.


----------



## Bhelpoori

On the iPhone, at the low volume I use, playing AAC, I seem to get somewhere around nearly 9. If I use APTX on Android it is somewhere around 7.5, perhaps less. It is difficult to tell as I rarely have pure music all that time, and 9 hours continuous is really difficult for me. I haven't managed to cycle the battery case yet so can't say for sure, at the moment it looks like at least 3 whole charges but probably more.


----------



## actorlife

mikp said:


> No stereo problem with syllable and lg g7 here. The soundstage is narrower than mavins, but I have no problem with the sound. Little boomy maybe, but 30$ for apt-x and qualcomm qcc3020..no brainer.
> 
> They fit fine, and case and buds take selection of eartips.


I wonder what the issue is with my phone and Syllable? Everything I've thrown at it works(my android box, firestick, Cayin N3, etc.), but not on those apps on my phone. It's so weird that the call was Stereo and not working on the left side when watching YouTube. I'm gonna contact the seller to see if he has a resolution. I don't want to return them cause even with the issues they are good.


----------



## actorlife

Bhelpoori said:


> On the iPhone, at the low volume I use, playing AAC, I seem to get somewhere around nearly 9. If I use APTX on Android it is somewhere around 7.5, perhaps less. It is difficult to tell as I rarely have pure music all that time, and 9 hours continuous is really difficult for me. I haven't managed to cycle the battery case yet so can't say for sure, at the moment it looks like at least 3 whole charges but probably more.


I'm gonna try them without aptx and see if the battery life is longer. My Cayin/Hidizs are the only ones with aptx.


----------



## mikp

actorlife said:


> I wonder what the issue is with my phone and Syllable? Everything I've thrown at it works(my android box, firestick, Cayin N3, etc.), but not on those apps on my phone. It's so weird that the call was Stereo and not working on the left side when watching YouTube. I'm gonna contact the seller to see if he has a resolution. I don't want to return them cause even with the issues they are good.



what phone? Sure its not set to mono mode?


----------



## Pro-Jules (Jun 6, 2019)

I wish Bose would get HiRes Bluetooth organised.

I love their StayHear ear tips - they (or custom molds) are the only thing that can keep earbuds / iem's in my ears. (short of using a hammer & duct tape - I have tried em all)


----------



## actorlife

vstolpner said:


> @actorlife
> Any reason to go for the Syllables over the Anbes?


No the Anbes 359 has Better instrument separation, Great bass and not boomy, Crystal clear treble without being fatiguing and a big plus for me large soundstage, which I love with music, audio books and movies. To be honest it's my favorite sound sig on my most of my headphones. If you've got/heard the Sivga SV007 you'll love the Anbes sound sig. This is my humble opinion only and I know some people may prefer the roll off treble and no soundstage.


----------



## actorlife

mikp said:


> what phone? Sure its not set to mono mode?


Nope I looked at my settings. The Anbes works perfectly on my phone and connects fast.


----------



## jlcsoft

After reading most of the messages in this great post, I have ordered the Syllable S101. This headphone are in offer in Amazon Spain for 35€. I will receive it tomorrow, so I will give you my opinion in a few days. 
I am a new user in hi-fi music. I am using a Xiaomi Mi8, a dac/amp cable Hidizs sonata II, and my headphones are a Audio technica M50x, a KZ as10, a BT SE-MJ561BT-T pioneer  and the last one a Koss ksc 75. I hope my new TWS reachs a good percentage of quality of those headphones.
Thanks to all for the help with your comments.


----------



## Slater

chinmie said:


> nice! thanks for the detailed explanation!
> i also browsing for the angled version because i want to make a glorified charging stand for the BT20, but I'm on the fence whether i choose the more flattened version like the ones you use or round one like this:



I was afraid that the round would show more. Plus because it’s bigger,  there’s a risk it will touch the ear. I can’t think of any advantage of the round one, unless I’m missing something.


----------



## AtariPrime

A short article about the Bose 500.  A bit disappointing actually.  If you are using Airpods, you obviously known nothing about sound anyway.  The Bose are still too big, still look like Frankenstein corks, and most importantly are not in-ear therefore will not seal well.  On to the next potential king of the hill.

https://www.cnet.com/news/bose-earbuds-500-are-airpods-killers-that-are-worth-waiting-for/


----------



## Caipirina

vstolpner said:


> Oh I'm sorry you have to put up with an iPhone....
> 
> I use my 12-ish year old Altec Lansing UHP336's (UE SuperFi's rebrand) that I absolutely love. But I want to check out KZ ZS7's and AS06's too. Going to wait for BT20S's and see what else is good at be that time.
> 
> Btw, tried the V80's but they hissed horribly with BT20.



Yeah, that advertised BT20 & V80 combo is a terrible hisser ... too bad. They look great together (besides the TRN logo being in different fonts. Why oh why?)

As for the iPhone. Has to do with being mobile, carrying only one (sweatproof) device while running. And for that it’s doing a great job. I have plenty of more ‘serious’ DAP / amp combos for quality listening. 

And as for BT, none of my other BT equipped players can challenge the stability of the connection compared to iPhone.


----------



## Slater

Pro-Jules said:


> I love their StayHear ear tips - they (or custom molds) are the only thing that can keep earbuds / iem's in my ears. (short of using a hammer & duct tape - I have tried em all)



Have you ever tried to fit the StayHears to non-Bose earphones? I’m always on the lookout for new types of eartips for my earphone collection.


----------



## Pro-Jules (Jun 6, 2019)

Slater said:


> Have you ever tried to fit the StayHears to non-Bose earphones? I’m always on the lookout for new types of eartips for my earphone collection.



The way they grip is too "proprietary" so in some way or another they might slip off and you might lose something valuable. But I am a fan of this type of "ear wing" fit. I bought some cheap ones off ebay but never got them to fit my IEMs so had some custom molds made. (Snugs - which worked out fine - but I lost them! Aghh! $$$$ down the drain)

If a multi pair, LDAC codec set emerged with great reviews I would consider getting a set of custom molds made for them by Snugs. That would be killer!


----------



## Slater

Pro-Jules said:


> The way they grip is too "proprietary" so in some way or another they will easily slip off and you might lose something valuable. But I am a fan of this type of "ear wing" fit. I bought some cheap ones off ebay but never got them to fit my IEMs so had some custom molds made. (Snugs - which worked out fine - but I lost them! Aghh! $$$$ down the drain)



Ok, that’s what I was afraid of. Thanks for letting me know.


----------



## actorlife

jlcsoft said:


> After reading most of the messages in this great post, I have ordered the Syllable S101. This headphone are in offer in Amazon Spain for 35€. I will receive it tomorrow, so I will give you my opinion in a few days.
> I am a new user in hi-fi music. I am using a Xiaomi Mi8, a dac/amp cable Hidizs sonata II, and my headphones are a Audio technica M50x, a KZ as10, a BT SE-MJ561BT-T pioneer  and the last one a Koss ksc 75. I hope my new TWS reachs a good percentage of quality of those headphones.
> Thanks to all for the help with your comments.


Thank you please let us know what you think. From your gear I see you like bright headphones. The Syllable are not bright at all. Can't wait to hear your thoughts. 

I sent the seller a note to see if he has a resolution to the left side not working on my phone.


----------



## vstolpner

mjb152 said:


> intrigued , got a link to any I can look at ?



I'm going to try and build a custom case for these so there is a type-C input from the outside, and magnetic "stands" for charging... Just ordered from Ali, so expect an update in 2 months


----------



## Slater

vstolpner said:


> I'm going to try and build a custom case for these so there is a type-C input from the outside, and magnetic "stands" for charging... Just ordered from Ali, so expect an update in 2 months



Good luck. I'm excited to see what you come up with.


----------



## hifi80sman (Jun 6, 2019)

AtariPrime said:


> A short article about the Bose 500.  A bit disappointing actually.  If you are using Airpods, you obviously known nothing about sound anyway.  The Bose are still too big, still look like Frankenstein corks, and most importantly are not in-ear therefore will not seal well.  On to the next potential king of the hill.
> 
> https://www.cnet.com/news/bose-earbuds-500-are-airpods-killers-that-are-worth-waiting-for/



Let's just say, the earbuds were the 2nd thing I noticed.  Creepy smirk, yeah, that was the 1st.

The 700 TWEs are the more compelling of the 2 options, as they have ANC.  The issue with the SSF, is the poor isolation.  Running, outdoors, they are great, however, in the gym where they blast some of the worst music you can think of, I have to crank them up to unhealthy levels.


----------



## Caipirina

AtariPrime said:


> A short article about the Bose 500.  A bit disappointing actually.  If you are using Airpods, you obviously known nothing about sound anyway.  The Bose are still too big, still look like Frankenstein corks, and *most importantly are not in-ear therefore will not seal well*.  On to the next potential king of the hill.
> /



I, too, had my strong reservations about Bose's 'StayHear' tips, especially when I tried the ANC QC20 for the very first time ... no seal? can't do ANC properly', those were my thoughts ... 

Today I love them both (bose?   )   the QC20 and the SSF ... I actually enjoy how they are not super intrusive and the ANC works very very well ... so, I have high hopes for the 700 model due in 
spring 2020 ... while I find the 500 to be 'meh'
Kinda like the Frankestein cork look ...   funny how no one mentiones that the new 1more 'Stylish' equally stick out .. maybe less prominent though ...


----------



## Veyska

Caipirina said:


> I, too, had my strong reservations about Bose's 'StayHear' tips, especially when I tried the ANC QC20 for the very first time ... no seal? can't do ANC properly', those were my thoughts ...
> 
> Today I love them both (bose?   )   the QC20 and the SSF ... I actually enjoy how they are not super intrusive and the ANC works very very well ... so, I have high hopes for the 700 model due in
> spring 2020 ... while I find the 500 to be 'meh'
> Kinda like the Frankestein cork look ...   funny how no one mentiones that the new 1more 'Stylish' equally stick out .. maybe less prominent though ...


The flanged Bose eartips always fall out of my right ear if I don't keep touching the fit back up (original tips I can walk around in just fine, flanged tips on my QC20 fall out if I look around too much).  If ever I end up with another wireless pair I'd probably swap to the original non-flanged variety even though that wouldn't seal as well just for sanity's sake, but compared to the normal tips there is a modest but noticeable difference in outside sound even without anything powered on and when you kick in the ANC they are quite nice yes.  (<3 my miracle 89$ eBay find QC20s...)


----------



## Caipirina

One more try to get some help with ear wings / tips for my Lezii x12, which are the same shape as the Sabbat x12. Mine did not come with any tips / wings while I see the Sabbat come with these ...

 

Has anyone seen those on AliExpress? 

I DID use the image search function and I caution against repeating my mistake ... the results were ... errrmm... not audio related (not in-ear, rather in-rear)


----------



## Soreniglio

Guys, Creative decided to give me a refund.

So...now that I have around 85 $ to spend, what's the best for that price? Or even lower, I simply want *good *sound quality, and at least a decent 4 hours of battery.


----------



## BobJS

I've enjoyed the Sabbat x12pro for a while (for what they are), and decided to give the E12 a try.  Clarity is a lot better, but with that seal there is way too much bass for my tastes.  It's great for very low volume listening, however, where bass usually tends to suffer.  I wonder if I could switch to a smaller tip size (I use the largest now) and induce a break in the seal to lower the bass?


----------



## RobinFood

Been giving my Nuarls a lot of time these days, even preferring to rock them mono on one ear at work rather than stereo with the Sabbat X12.
They still blow my mind, I really don't get how the bass can hit so hard and not muddy up the mids, and still get some sparkle at the top. It doesn't make sense.

Probably my next move will be either the TRN BT20 with some flat-head earbuds like the Masya Pro or Smabat S-10. I was hopeful for the Fostex TM2, but it is literally 10 times the price for an oversized case and APTx. Does anyone know what will change with the BT20s? Does anyone know the output impedance and if they can play nice with BA drivers?

I am also looking forward to the Bose 700s, but Bose being Bose with their ANC stuff, I would not be surprised if they were 400-500$. I don't see myself justifying them to my wife.


----------



## vstolpner (Jun 7, 2019)

RobinFood said:


> Does anyone know what will change with the BT20s? Does anyone know the output impedance and if they can play nice with BA drivers?



I use my BT20 with UE SuperFi's (Knowles BA) and they work amazingly well. Also tried with TRN V80's but there is a horrible hiss at lower comes - otherwise they sounds really well too. Plus lots of people on here use them with KZ hybrid earphones.

If you search here or on the TRN thread for BT20S you'll find some speculation, but I don't believe there is anything confirmed yet. I'm hopefully for buttons that control playback and volume.... And a case would be great!


----------



## AtariPrime

Caipirina said:


> I, too, had my strong reservations about Bose's 'StayHear' tips, especially when I tried the ANC QC20 for the very first time ... no seal? can't do ANC properly', those were my thoughts ...
> 
> Today I love them both (bose?   )   the QC20 and the SSF ... I actually enjoy how they are not super intrusive and the ANC works very very well ... so, I have high hopes for the 700 model due in
> spring 2020 ... while I find the 500 to be 'meh'
> Kinda like the Frankestein cork look ...   funny how no one mentiones that the new 1more 'Stylish' equally stick out .. maybe less prominent though ...



True that I don't see anyone here talk about how far the 1more Stylish stick out.  But for the most part I don't see many on here talk about the size of wireless earbuds.  I find that a bit odd that its not a factor for some, but to each their own.  Most of the this thread seems to focus on Chi-Fi options.  I get that to some degree, forums are mostly populated by a bit younger crowd with tight budgets, so Chi-Fi would be very appealing in that regard.  My goal is simply compact with best sound and battery.  

I had looked at the 1more before it came out and was very curious.  But once I saw pics of them in-ear, I was out.  

I am very hopeful for the new earbuds from JBL and Klipsch, neither are out yet though to my knowledge.  JBL came out with one model, but it is their lowest end option.  They have three more coming.  What baffles me is Sony.  They have all the funding in the world and are an industry leader in having good quality headphones and a wide array of options, but when it comes to wireless earbuds they have dropped the ball thus far.


----------



## AtariPrime

Soreniglio said:


> Guys, Creative decided to give me a refund.
> 
> So...now that I have around 85 $ to spend, what's the best for that price? Or even lower, I simply want *good *sound quality, and at least a decent 4 hours of battery.



Try the Mavin Air-X.  I think that will get you what you are looking for.


----------



## dockie7

DigDub said:


> My collection of TWS earbuds so far. From to left: Creative Outlier Air, Mee Audio X10, Samsung Galaxy Buds, QCY T1C, Mifo O5 Standard, Nuarl NT01AX.


Nice collection, price?


----------



## hifi80sman (Jun 7, 2019)

RobinFood said:


> Been giving my Nuarls a lot of time these days, even preferring to rock them mono on one ear at work rather than stereo with the Sabbat X12.
> They still blow my mind, I really don't get how the bass can hit so hard and not muddy up the mids, and still get some sparkle at the top. It doesn't make sense.
> 
> Probably my next move will be either the TRN BT20 with some flat-head earbuds like the Masya Pro or Smabat S-10. I was hopeful for the Fostex TM2, but it is literally 10 times the price for an oversized case and APTx. Does anyone know what will change with the BT20s? Does anyone know the output impedance and if they can play nice with BA drivers?
> ...


My guess, is the 500s will be $199 (replacing the SSF) and the 700s will be $299 (maybe a replacement for the QC 30?).  I doubt they will be more than the flagship over-ear 700s already with a confirmed retail of $399.


----------



## Veyska

Slater said:


> Also be aware that the T1C is NOT the same as the T1 or T1 Pro.


What exactly *are* the differences between the T1 and the T1C/QS1?  Pair I ordered (buck or two more on eBay and I could have them "now" rather than "way later") say T1 on the box/manual/charger (but were listed as "QS1 T1C") but if I hadn't noticed that I wouldn't have known.  They look identical and sound reasonably decent (think I need to mess with tips for stability though), but...  If the differences aren't negligible I potentially ought to poke the seller with a stick and I'd need more than "there's one letter different in the model name from your listing" as proof.


----------



## Slater (Jun 7, 2019)

Veyska said:


> What exactly *are* the differences between the T1 and the T1C/QS1?  Pair I ordered (buck or two more on eBay and I could have them "now" rather than "way later") say T1 on the box/manual/charger (but were listed as "QS1 T1C") but if I hadn't noticed that I wouldn't have known.  They look identical and sound reasonably decent (think I need to mess with tips for stability though), but...  If the differences aren't negligible I potentially ought to poke the seller with a stick and I'd need more than "there's one letter different in the model name from your listing" as proof.



The T1 was an older product that had a different chipset in it. It had serious connection problems and was a POS.

The version with the updated chipset (which solves the problems) is the T1C aka QS1.

However, a major downside and source of confusion is that some of the labeling still says T1. For example, my BOX says Q1S, but the bottom of the charge case says T1.

Which isn’t all that surprising, because the Bluetooth chipset lives inside of the earpieces not the charge case. They literally made millions of T1, so they are probably waiting until they run out of charge case stock before they relabel the charge cases properly. That’s just speculation though.

What does the outside of your box say? If it says QS1 then you have the correct product. Especially if you also have a rock solid Bluetooth connection. No skipping, no static, no random disconnects and reconnects, etc.


----------



## Veyska

Slater said:


> The T1 was an older product that had a different chipset in it. It had serious connection problems and was a POS.
> 
> The version with the updated chipset (which solves the problems) is the T1C aka QS1.
> 
> ...


Main packaging box does say T1 as well.  Haven't spent much time poking at them yet to test connectivity, same trip out to the mailboxes also netted me the Sennheiser IE 40 Pro I snapped up off the For Sale forums and I maaaaay have gotten slightly distracted listening to them.  *cough*


----------



## Slater

Veyska said:


> Main packaging box does say T1 as well.  Haven't spent much time poking at them yet to test connectivity, same trip out to the mailboxes also netted me the Sennheiser IE 40 Pro I snapped up off the For Sale forums and I maaaaay have gotten slightly distracted listening to them.  *cough*



Sounds like you got the T1 then.


----------



## Veyska

Slater said:


> Sounds like you got the T1 then.


I'll have to give them a trial run tomorrow, doing an outdoor event with lots of walking around.  If I get connection issues I'll fuss (don't need much range, only ever going to use them when I'm out walking with my phone right there on me), and if I get one or two connection issues but the fit isn't stable I'll fuss too.  If neither, I may politely ahem the seller and who knows maybe I can get a token partial refund as an apology (happened the last time there was a model mix-up with something I got off eBay).


----------



## Slater

Veyska said:


> I'll have to give them a trial run tomorrow, doing an outdoor event with lots of walking around.  If I get connection issues I'll fuss (don't need much range, only ever going to use them when I'm out walking with my phone right there on me), and if I get one or two connection issues but the fit isn't stable I'll fuss too.  If neither, I may politely ahem the seller and who knows maybe I can get a token partial refund as an apology (happened the last time there was a model mix-up with something I got off eBay).



If the fit is anything like the T1C/QS1, it’s excellent.


----------



## Veyska

Slater said:


> If the fit is anything like the T1C/QS1, it’s excellent.


I can get Bose's StayHear+ (the flanged variety) to fall out of one of my ears with almost no effort, and these don't have any ear hooks or grippy tips.


----------



## Slater

Veyska said:


> I can get Bose's StayHear+ (the flanged variety) to fall out of one of my ears with almost no effort, and these don't have any ear hooks or grippy tips.



Ok, lemme rephrase that:

If the fit is anything like the T1C/QS1, it’s excellent for me but YMMV.


----------



## hifi80sman

Slater said:


> Ok, lemme rephrase that:
> 
> If the fit is anything like the T1C/QS1, it’s excellent for me but YMMV.


@Slater any recommendations you know of that can help to create a better seal for the Bose Soundsport Free?


----------



## Slater

hifi80sman said:


> @Slater any recommendations you know of that can help to create a better seal for the Bose Soundsport Free?



I assume you tried the eartips in all 3 sizes SML? I would think from the photos that those would seal great (assuming you chose the proper size tip).


----------



## hifi80sman

Slater said:


> I assume you tried the eartips in all 3 sizes SML? I would think from the photos that those would seal great (assuming you chose the proper size tip).


Yeah, they all have a semi-open quality.  I was hoping you knew of some tips that could be used to turn it from semi-open to closed.  I'd like to use them at the gym, but they are too open for my gym and the loud, bad music there.


----------



## Slater

hifi80sman said:


> Yeah, they all have a semi-open quality.  I was hoping you knew of some tips that could be used to turn it from semi-open to closed.  I'd like to use them at the gym, but they are too open for my gym and the loud, bad music there.



You could make some tips out of Radians silicone. You'd have to remove them every time you wanted to charge them though, which I'd imagine would get really old really fast.


----------



## hifi80sman

Slater said:


> You could make some tips out of Radians silicone. You'd have to remove them every time you wanted to charge them though, which I'd imagine would get really old really fast.


Ahh, indeed. I don't think I want to roll around like that.


----------



## hifi80sman

YMMV, but Walmart has the Anker Zolo Liberty True Wireless Earbuds for $59.  There are 2 versions, this one and the upgraded v2.  I think Walmart meant to clearance out the 1st version (Z2000, product description for the old model), but they have the model # listed for the newer version (Z2001) on their website.  They have the newer version listed at $99 in-store, but I showed them the listing online and they price matched it (they will only match themselves).  This looks like an error, so YMMV.


----------



## Veyska

Slater said:


> Ok, lemme rephrase that:
> 
> If the fit is anything like the T1C/QS1, it’s excellent for me but YMMV.


My ears are annoying like that, s'part of why I'm still poking around at IEMs even though I'd really rather something with less isolation because the alternative is zero isolation because the blasted earbud fell out again.  -_-

All the longer tips (was thinking maybe more anchoring surface?) were too long and left the earpieces dangling, but I did find a pair that seem to be reasonably stable.  They still feel a bit precarious compared to my other IEMs but they haven't fallen out yet wandering about the apartment.  Had to wander to the other side of the apartment to get the connection to crap out on me, having a wall in-between only caused one micro-stutter (and it was shorter and less annoying than the BT20's occasional hiccup).  They *look* identical to the QS1/T1C, visually at least it's just the missing letter C that differs so who knows.  Maybe I got a inverse lemon?


----------



## chinmie

RobinFood said:


> Been giving my Nuarls a lot of time these days, even preferring to rock them mono on one ear at work rather than stereo with the Sabbat X12.
> They still blow my mind, I really don't get how the bass can hit so hard and not muddy up the mids, and still get some sparkle at the top. It doesn't make sense.
> 
> Probably my next move will be either the TRN BT20 with some flat-head earbuds like the Masya Pro or Smabat S-10. I was hopeful for the Fostex TM2, but it is literally 10 times the price for an oversized case and APTx. Does anyone know what will change with the BT20s? Does anyone know the output impedance and if they can play nice with BA drivers?
> ...



I'm going to japan next july, so i might be able to check the TM2, although i agree with you, seeing the price of the extension cable of the TM2 alone is twice the price of the BT20, makes me think it's better just to buy a couple of BT20 anyway. it's easier to carry (i can fit my BT20 and Kanas combo inside that small KZ carbon case)

i might just wait and see the next BT20 revision and the KZ version


----------



## Slater (Jun 8, 2019)

I’m back with yet another mod for the QCY T1C/QS1.

I don’t use the stock eartips, and I’ve always been annoyed at the difficulty in getting non-stock and/or larger tips to fit in the change case.

The medium Auvios I’ve been using do technically fit, but just barely. And when I insert them in the case, instead of just dropping them in like magic, I have to press down on them to get the magnet to make contact and start charging due to the larger tip.

This wouldn’t be a problem, but at least 50% of the time when I press on the shells to get the magnet to make contact, I accidentally press the giant control button (which isn’t hard because the button takes up the entire rear face of the shell, so it’s near impossible NOT to press the button). When this happens, they stop charging and reconnect to my phone (forcing me to take them back out and try again).

Therefore, I modded the case to alleviate the problem.

The tools needed are:

- spudger tool or guitar pick to open the charge case
- stepped drill bit (ie a unibit)
- small drill bit (1/8” is fine)
- drill

*Steps*:

1. Mark the very center of the charge case where the eartip centers. There’s different ways to do this, but what I did was put a thin layer of blue tac inside the charge case holes, and insert the earbuds. The ear tip presses on the blue tac and makes an impression where the center of the eartip is. I then used a scratch awl and pushed it through the blue tac to mark the plastic itself.

2. Remove the blue tac. Now drill a pilot hole where you made the center mark using the 1/8” drill bit.

3. Pop the charge case apart at the seam with the spudger tool. Work your way around the circumference of the seam to release both halves. It comes apart fairly easily, as the case is just held together by snap clips (no glue).



4. Insert the unibit in the pilot hole *from the bottom *(ie not from the top where you insert the earphones, but rather the under side as seen in the photo below). Using a *slow speed*, drill the hole as big as you want, pausing at each of the incremental unibit steps to clear away the shavings and check your work. At any point you can reinsert the earphones and see exactly if you need to enlarge the hole some more. I think I stopped the hole at a final size of 1/2” (or maybe 9/16”). Your hole size may be different though, depending on the eartips you plan on using. You don’t have to be exact; it won’t hurt anything to make the hole a little bigger than the eartip requires.



5. Because you’re using a unibit and drilling from the bottom, the hole will be very clean and won’t require any sanding or cleanup at all. Simply blow away the plastic shavings left by the unibit and you’re done.

6. Snap the case back together and enjoy.

Total mod time was roughly 10 minutes from start to finish.

I can now fit any eartip I please, including foam tips, double flange, etc. And the magnets work as they’re supposed to - now I am able to just drop the earphones in the case, and they stick solidly to the magnets and start charging. Easy.

*This same basic mod can also be adapted to many other TW earphones.*


----------



## RobinFood

chinmie said:


> I'm going to japan next july, so i might be able to check the TM2, although i agree with you, seeing the price of the extension cable of the TM2 alone is twice the price of the BT20, makes me think it's better just to buy a couple of BT20 anyway. it's easier to carry (i can fit my BT20 and Kanas combo inside that small KZ carbon case)
> 
> i might just wait and see the next BT20 revision and the KZ version



Sweet. Let me know if you go by Osaka, I can show you around if I don't have work on that day. I'm always looking for an excuse to go to the earphone stores in the city.


----------



## Pro-Jules (Jun 8, 2019)

I hope Bose have some other models coming out as well as the 700 (I'm not interested in them)

It will be disappointing if Bose don't make advances with Bluetooth codecs. A high end brand not being Hi Res is unacceptable IMHO.(Same for Apple)


----------



## BigZ12

The rubber which covers the button on the right bud of my Anbes 359, has loosened. Very soft and sticky glue under the "rubber lid" and now it won't stick. (it moves by just touching the button for play/pause etc)
Any other with the same problem? 
I have loved my Anbes, but this was dissappointing


----------



## 40760

BigZ12 said:


> The rubber which covers the button on the right bud of my Anbes 359, has loosened. Very soft and sticky glue under the "rubber lid" and now it won't stick. (it moves by just touching the button for play/pause etc)
> Any other with the same problem?
> I have loved my Anbes, but this was dissappointing



I lost one of the rubber button covers after only a few days of use. They refunded me the full price though.


----------



## vstolpner

palestofwhite said:


> I lost one of the rubber button covers after only a few days of use. They refunded me the full price though.



Can't you glue it back on? Maybe epoxy it permanently in place?

Waiting for my Anbes to arrive myself, so getting a little worried they'll die soon


----------



## 40760 (Jun 8, 2019)

vstolpner said:


> Can't you glue it back on? Maybe epoxy it permanently in place?
> 
> Waiting for my Anbes to arrive myself, so getting a little worried they'll die soon



It came off and was lost... You should also take note as I don't trust the IP rating after knowing they are just sticker type silicone covers.


----------



## vstolpner

palestofwhite said:


> It came off and was lost... You should also take note as I don't trust the IP rating after knowing they are just sticker type silicone covers.



Well then nevermind....


----------



## 40760

vstolpner said:


> Well then nevermind....



Just keep them dry to be safe. Besides that I really do like them.


----------



## actorlife

BigZ12 said:


> The rubber which covers the button on the right bud of my Anbes 359, has loosened. Very soft and sticky glue under the "rubber lid" and now it won't stick. (it moves by just touching the button for play/pause etc)
> Any other with the same problem?
> I have loved my Anbes, but this was dissappointing


Darn sorry to hear. Can you get a replacement? I treat all my gear gently. With the Anbes I hold them so they don't push in my ear when adjusting on it. So far so good.


----------



## BigZ12

palestofwhite said:


> I lost one of the rubber button covers after only a few days of use. They refunded me the full price though.





actorlife said:


> Darn sorry to hear. Can you get a replacement? I treat all my gear gently. With the Anbes I hold them so they don't push in my ear when adjusting on it. So far so good.


I have contacted the seller on Aliexpress asking them for a refund/replacement.

Have been so satisfied with the 359s, that I have recommended them to a lot of friends. Now I'm afraid they will have the same problem...


----------



## actorlife

BigZ12 said:


> I have contacted the seller on Aliexpress asking them for a refund/replacement.
> 
> Have been so satisfied with the 359s, that I have recommended them to a lot of friends. Now I'm afraid they will have the same problem...


Hopefully they will send you another pair and if they do try to be more gentle with them or any other tws. 
On another note:
Syllable S101 I'm using and still testing. Something to note it announces connected while it was connected. It happened more then a couple of times. I contacted the seller and he said he'd get back me. English was a barrier so I guess he wanted to get an interpretation of my email. Hopefully he can send me another pair to see if they have the same issues. Battery life is great got over 10hrs. From zero volume 9 clicks will give you 50 percent volume. I trying 12 clicks of volume today. Still only working on one side on my phone. I getting used to the sound I will primarily use these for audio books and perhaps phone calls until I can get a replacement.


----------



## mikp

Lg sticking to selecting aac before apt-x on bt audio, and unnecessary fix.


----------



## Soreniglio

Guys, I decided to want a pair of chi-fi TWS, so that I don't have to spend too much.

What's the best out in the market for now?


----------



## vstolpner

Soreniglio said:


> Guys, I decided to want a pair of chi-fi TWS, so that I don't have to spend too much.
> 
> What's the best out in the market for now?



Go through the thread. Anbes 359 and Sabbat E12 are getting a lot of attention right now. As are QCY Y1C


----------



## Veyska

Veyska said:


> My ears are annoying like that, s'part of why I'm still poking around at IEMs even though I'd really rather something with less isolation because the alternative is zero isolation because the blasted earbud fell out again.  -_-
> 
> All the longer tips (was thinking maybe more anchoring surface?) were too long and left the earpieces dangling, but I did find a pair that seem to be reasonably stable.  They still feel a bit precarious compared to my other IEMs but they haven't fallen out yet wandering about the apartment.  Had to wander to the other side of the apartment to get the connection to crap out on me, having a wall in-between only caused one micro-stutter (and it was shorter and less annoying than the BT20's occasional hiccup).  They *look* identical to the QS1/T1C, visually at least it's just the missing letter C that differs so who knows.  Maybe I got a inverse lemon?


Well three hours wandering around a crowded park and there were zero hiccups in connection or even micro-stutters in playback.  Not entirely wild about the fit but once I got them settled they were stable and largely ignorable physically.  Certainly more comfortable than the BT20 (which, incidentally, means unless the QCY T1 die on me in the relatively immediate future I'll be selling the BT20).

May not keep 'em forever and ever, I've fallen in love with how the Sennheiser IE 40 Pro fit/feel (they basically disappear when you wear them, it's glorious) and have ordered a pair of sans-cable Tennmak Pro to see if they're similarly comfortable with a "good enough for walking outdoors" sound at which point I'll probably pick up a matching Bluetooth cable and if not I'll window-shop some more or maybe just give up and get a high-end adapter (the IE 40 Pro's dynamic so it's more durable than BAs but I'm still leery of abusing it because a replacement would me pricier than any of the other IEMs I've gotten so far and its connectors are proprietary so I can't just cable them either).

(I just realized the entire second paragraph was a single sentence but it amuses me so I'm leaving it as is.)


----------



## AudioJunki3

Anyone else keeping an eye on the Bose earbuds 500? I've just picked up the soundsport free, theyre great for listening but have a few fatal flaws with video lag and the fave they're massive. Hoping these fix those issues, they do look considerably smaller.


----------



## LajostheHun

Nailzs said:


> I have a LG G7 and if you set up Bluetooth to the device you want to connect with the G7 sets up the protocol correctly every time.
> The same should be true with the V20.
> Go to settings and turn on Bluetooth.You may get an alert box that pops up. Poke OK. You'll get a list of connected devices. On the right hand side of the device you connected poke the gear.
> If you're using a device that uses high def codec's you'll get an option for connection type. Poke it.
> ...


that won't work with "aptx" only with"aptx HD" and Ldac as your post actually implies.


----------



## Pro-Jules (Jun 9, 2019)

AudioJunki3 said:


> Anyone else keeping an eye on the Bose earbuds 500? I've just picked up the soundsport free, theyre great for listening but have a few fatal flaws with video lag and the fave they're massive. Hoping these fix those issues, they do look considerably smaller.



Yep now watching for news on them. So far I can't  see mention of hi res Bluetooth codecs. Also, it would be great if its companion phone app comes with an equaliser. If it did I would buy them in a heartbeat.

One youtuber says a noise cancelling QC 500 earbuds model us due out in 2020.


----------



## AudioJunki3

Pro-Jules said:


> Yep now watching for news on them. So far I can't  see mention of hi res Bluetooth codecs. Also, it would be great if its companion phone app comes with an equaliser. If it did I would buy them in a heartbeat.
> 
> One youtuber says a noise cancelling QC 500 earbuds model us due out in 2020.


Yeah man! I think the QC model is called the 700, hopefully it has some hi-res codecs, would definitely be a deal maker!


----------



## Caguioa

here review on bose 700

https://www.cnet.com/news/bose-new-noise-cancelling-headphones-700-early-review/


----------



## AudioJunki3

Caguioa said:


> here review on bose 700
> 
> https://www.cnet.com/news/bose-new-noise-cancelling-headphones-700-early-review/




https://www.bose.com/en_us/better_w...5691&cjevent=7382df9b890c11e9830b01030a18050d

The new earbuds 700 are shown on here, merely a sketch at the moment though.


----------



## jant71

Caguioa said:


> here review on bose 700
> 
> https://www.cnet.com/news/bose-new-noise-cancelling-headphones-700-early-review/



Yep, that is not the 700 that is being talk about. The Earbuds 700.


----------



## Caguioa (Jun 9, 2019)

jant71 said:


> Yep, that is not the 700 that is being talk about. The Earbuds 700.



i only seen earbuds 500, where is this 700,

edit, find the 700... but thats along time, why even make the 500


----------



## AudioJunki3

Caguioa said:


> i only seen earbuds 500, where is this 700,
> 
> edit, find the 700... but thats along time, why even make the 500


I put a link on the previous page


----------



## WesennTony

The test of Nuarl NT01AX  (MT4 version) on the flight is surprisingly good. It took some efforts to find a best seal, but when I found the sweet spot, they isolated the engine noise as well as my Westone W60 wired IEMs. Sound was still very impressive. Tbh I could not tell the difference between them and my W60 paired with earstudio ES100 in that environment.  They're definitely the best sounding (SQ and sound sig) TWEs I've tested, among mavin air-x and MW07.  To me this alone is worth the price! They look a bit bulky, but I can live with that.  They're very comfortable too.
After burning in, the BT range has somehow been improved significantly. Now I can walk to another room without any dropouts. They did have some dropouts in public area like in a sports arena and walk in the streets. 

Also tested Sabbat E12 last couple of days. They sound slightly better than Anbes 359, but the isolation is bad. I should say they're one of the worst TW IEMs in terms of isolation. All the stock tips don't fit my ears well. I have to go with Sony hybrids. So Anbes 359 are still my gym/yard buds. I know it's not fair to compare the SQ of E12 with NT01AX. NT01AX is superior in every frequency range, even the amount and quality of the bass. Gonna return E12.


----------



## srinivasvignesh

webvan said:


> Not me, see above, same seller as mine by any chance ? The search shows he's had 21 orders so not to lot to ship out.



I received my T8 few moments ago in India. It definitely looks a modified or earlier version of the Sabbat X12. Sound is just not as clean, maybe okay for podcasts.


----------



## srinivasvignesh

Another impression T8 gets extremely loud, you have to be careful. No controls for volume control. Switching to AAC is better than SBC, but some connectivity issues. Again, all are early impression. Will post detailed impressions later. Not bad for $12.


----------



## webvan

Hum, that sounds like bad news, it seems odd there would be different versions of a cheap device like this. Triple taps won't let you control the volume ?


----------



## srinivasvignesh

No. It is case of getting what you paid for. Only SBC as well.


----------



## AtariPrime

Someone asked for info about the Bose 700 earbuds.  See below.

https://www.bose.com/en_us/better_with_bose/new-headphones.html


----------



## hifi80sman

AtariPrime said:


> Someone asked for info about the Bose 700 earbuds.  See below.
> 
> https://www.bose.com/en_us/better_with_bose/new-headphones.html


I REALLY want those.  Wouldn't be surprised if Sony came out with a WF-1000XM2 as a counter-punch, even earlier than Bose (to suck up some of the market share).


----------



## GrindedDown

hifi80sman said:


> I REALLY want those.  Wouldn't be surprised if Sony came out with a WF-1000XM2 as a counter-punch, even earlier than Bose (to suck up some of the market share).


As luck would have it, earlier this year, Sony filed with the FCC for a a new wireless earbud and I believe it was called the WF-1000xm3. We just may see a new wireless model from Sony and hopefully they can improve upon the shortcomings like connection issues and battery life. I’ll buy a pair for sure as I really like the Sony sound.


----------



## LajostheHun

just ordered the Sabat E12 in red see if it's any good.


----------



## LajostheHun

BobJS said:


> I've enjoyed the Sabbat x12pro for a while (for what they are), and decided to give the E12 a try.  Clarity is a lot better, but with that seal there is way too much bass for my tastes.  It's great for very low volume listening, however, where bass usually tends to suffer.  I wonder if I could switch to a smaller tip size (I use the largest now) and induce a break in the seal to lower the bass?


ever consider EQ it? I do it on every headphones I own including BT ones. Though I never use streaming apps, I only listen to files on the phone so EQ is easy on those apps.


----------



## BobJS

LajostheHun said:


> ever consider EQ it? I do it on every headphones I own including BT ones. Though I never use streaming apps, I only listen to files on the phone so EQ is easy on those apps.



Of course I could EQ it, but with literally dozens of IEMs I don't think there is enough space to store each setting ready to go.


----------



## hifi80sman

BobJS said:


> Of course I could EQ it, but with literally dozens of IEMs I don't think there is enough space to store each setting ready to go.


Yeah, that could get cumbersome if you have numerous 'buds in your collection.

I love the bass on the Sabbat E12, but there's nothing wrong if someone doesn't.  Not everyone likes the same thing.  Yes, the seal is less than Ideal, but I find them very comfortable.  Calls are OK, the only issue that callers report back to me is a random electronic "buzz" for a split second here and there throughout the call.

Overall, I really like the E12 and would recommend them for anyone that likes deep sub-bass and doesn't need isolation.


----------



## LajostheHun

BobJS said:


> Of course I could EQ it, but with literally dozens of IEMs I don't think there is enough space to store each setting ready to go.


The Onkyo HF music app probably has that capacity.


----------



## Slater

BobJS said:


> Of course I could EQ it, but with literally dozens of IEMs I don't think there is enough space to store each setting ready to go.





LajostheHun said:


> The Onkyo HF music app probably has that capacity.



Rockbox does it. I have about 40 EQ profiles. The files that store the settings are just small text files. You could fit tens thousands of them on a singe floppy disk.


----------



## vstolpner (Jun 11, 2019)

Slater said:


> Rockbox does it. I have about 40 EQ profiles. The files that store the settings are just small text files. You could fit tens thousands of them on a singe floppy disk.



And then carry around a floppy drive for every time you want to change headphones?! No thank you!! Plus, how are you going to insert the floppy into the phone?!?

PS: couldn't resist


----------



## LajostheHun

hifi80sman said:


> Yeah, that could get cumbersome if you have numerous 'buds in your collection.
> 
> I love the bass on the Sabbat E12, but there's nothing wrong if someone doesn't.  Not everyone likes the same thing.  Yes, the seal is less than Ideal, but I find them very comfortable.  Calls are OK, the only issue that callers report back to me is a random electronic "buzz" for a split second here and there throughout the call.
> 
> Overall, I really like the E12 and would recommend them for anyone that likes deep sub-bass and doesn't need isolation.


I'm ok with bass boosted below 60hz, but I find most headphones including IEMs [ I came across] are boosted between 100-200hz to some degree. MFR's doing what speaker MFR's used to do with bookshelf speakers, boosting the upper bass to make them sound more "potent". I think this is definitely true for chi-fi TWS's 
Yeah my E 12 is on it's way, I'm hoping it will be as good or better as my Mifo  O5, which has been my daily driver for a month now and have no issues with it [once it was Eq'd] unlike the 6 different TWE's I sent back the last 2 months [including the Anbes 359] for connectivity, fit and sound quality problems .


----------



## LajostheHun

vstolpner said:


> Just talking to myself here....
> 
> Update: TFZ B.V2 are no longer Balanced Armature
> This was confirmed by Ali sellers "The Fragrant Zither Official Store" and by "Penon Audio Store"
> New design is a 6mm dynamic (the posting specs have just been updated too: Vocalism Principle - Dynamic)



Drop has them now, they still claim BA drivers...

https://drop.com/buy/tfz-b-v2-wirel...60234877161.062276920568595892359136#overview


----------



## vstolpner

LajostheHun said:


> Drop has them now, they still claim BA drivers...
> 
> https://drop.com/buy/tfz-b-v2-wireless-iem?utm_placement=2&referer=NP58GW&mode=guest_open&utm_campaign=Automated Daily Promotional 2019-06-11&utm_source=SparkPost&utm_medium=email&utm_term=Daily Promotional&utm_content=1560234877161.062276920568595892359136#overview



Do you mind to PM me the price? Don't want to sign up just to see the price...

And don't know that there is any guarantee that these are going to be BA's... Especially with the conversations about false advertising in TRN's cables (see the TRN thread).


----------



## milkybrkid

vstolpner said:


> Do you mind to PM me the price? Don't want to sign up just to see the price...
> 
> And don't know that there is any guarantee that these are going to be BA's... Especially with the conversations about false advertising in TRN's cables (see the TRN thread).



If anyone else is wondering it's $40 with free shipping to USA.


----------



## actorlife

milkybrkid said:


> If anyone else is wondering it's $40 with free shipping to USA.


Not bad for $40 if it's BA drivers/Battery life claimed 15hrs and free shipping. I'll hold out till I see a review comparisons to my beloved Anbes.


----------



## vstolpner

milkybrkid said:


> If anyone else is wondering it's $40 with free shipping to USA.



Sorry to keep asking (just got interested!) 
Do you know the shipping timeframe?


----------



## milkybrkid (Jun 11, 2019)

vstolpner said:


> Sorry to keep asking (just got interested!)
> Do you know the shipping timeframe?



Ok just checked and it's a bit of a wait unfortunately, the following is copied and pasted:-

SHIPPING
All orders will be shipped by Drop.

Estimated ship date is July 18, 2019 PT.

After this product run ends, payment will be collected and orders will be submitted to the vendor up front, making all orders final. Check the discussion for updates on your order.

Also says that there is 5 days left so decisions, decsions.


----------



## nc8000 (Jun 11, 2019)

Australian Sound and Vision magazine do 9 tws shootout with Airpods V2 and Nuhera IQBuds Boost coming out on top and the Jabra Elite Active T65 getting top value. The other contenders were Earin M2, Edifier TWS2, Phiatin Bolt BT700, Plantronics Backbeat Fit 3100, Sennheiser MTW and Soul Emotion.

The reviewers number one criteria is ambient mode or lack of complete isolation.


----------



## hifi80sman (Jun 11, 2019)

Just picked up the Aukey TWE (T10 Model) and definitely feeling these.  Sound is very balanced out the gate; not bright, not bassy, not shouty.  Surely, it's not exactly flat, but it's done tastefully and in a way that maintains overall balance.    Personally for my tastes, I add a _*bit*_ more bass push in the 60 Hz and 150 Hz regions, but not much, so in cases where I can't, it's still pleasing to me as someone that enjoys bass.  AAC, not aptX, but my main phone for calls is my iPhone anyway, so no big deal there.  Callers also report I sound good, even though some of the Amazon reviews indicate poor call performance.  YMMV.

They look, fit, and feel like the 2018 Icon X, but they sound better.  I thought the Icon X sounded a bit cheap, especially the highs and weak bass.

Touch Controls, Volume Control, USB C, Qi Charging.

They are also 20% off now.


----------



## doo_wop

not a bad price for QCC3026
https://cambridgeaudio.com/gbr/en/products/melomania-1/buy

https://www.mobilegeeks.de/test/cambridge-audio-melomania-1/
a review in German, the only complaint seems to be micro USB


----------



## hifi80sman

doo_wop said:


> not a bad price for QCC3026
> https://cambridgeaudio.com/gbr/en/products/melomania-1/buy
> 
> https://www.mobilegeeks.de/test/cambridge-audio-melomania-1/
> a review in German, the only complaint seems to be micro USB


They spec out nicely, but there's still Micro USB!  Borderline criminal.


----------



## vstolpner

milkybrkid said:


> Ok just checked and it's a bit of a wait unfortunately, the following is copied and pasted:-
> 
> SHIPPING
> All orders will be shipped by Drop.
> ...



Any ideas if there's a way to check whether this is the original BA version or the new dynamic version?


----------



## actorlife

Contacted the ebay seller to see if he could send me another Syllable and when I get it I'd pay and return the one he sent me. I have 100 percent rating. He replied and offered to refund $15, which to me is not fair. What would yall do?


----------



## vstolpner

actorlife said:


> Contacted the ebay seller to see if he could send me another Syllable and when I get it I'd pay and return the one he sent me. I have 100 percent rating. He replied and offered to refund $15, which to me is not fair. What would yall do?



Been a while since I had an issue with eBay sellers (mostly due to using AliExpress). But I recall there was some dispute function. 
When I had an issue with earphones I took a video with another phone and brought each earphone to the mic to show the issue. The seller then resolved to my satisfaction. 
If you got a defective item, it's the seller's responsibility to make it right. eBay or PayPal can step in too.


----------



## actorlife

vstolpner said:


> Been a while since I had an issue with eBay sellers (mostly due to using AliExpress). But I recall there was some dispute function.
> When I had an issue with earphones I took a video with another phone and brought each earphone to the mic to show the issue. The seller then resolved to my satisfaction.
> If you got a defective item, it's the seller's responsibility to make it right. eBay or PayPal can step in too.


I just replied and said the same thing I said before and also said if he didn't agree I'll take a full refund($30). The video is not a bad idea(thanks), but for now I'll see what he says. I think I'm being fair. If I had anything defected I would send photos and that seem to work, but Audio stuff kinda hard to do.


----------



## DigDub

LajostheHun said:


> Drop has them now, they still claim BA drivers...
> 
> https://drop.com/buy/tfz-b-v2-wireless-iem?utm_placement=2&referer=NP58GW&mode=guest_open&utm_campaign=Automated Daily Promotional 2019-06-11&utm_source=SparkPost&utm_medium=email&utm_term=Daily Promotional&utm_content=1560234877161.062276920568595892359136#overview


Don't bother with the TFZ B.V2 unless you are fine with a play time of slightly less than 3 hours. The 15 hours is grossly misrepresented.


----------



## vstolpner

Has anyone heard of the Astrotec S80's? I saw a few promo materials before but nothing concrete unit now.

https://s.click.aliexpress.com/e/b5tN602y

Beryllium speakers, BT 5.0 (but no volume control), microUSB....


----------



## webvan

nc8000 said:


> Australian Sound and Vision magazine do 9 tws shootout with Airpods V2 and Nuhera IQBuds Boost coming out on top and the Jabra Elite Active T65 getting top value. The other contenders were Earin M2, Edifier TWS2, Phiatin Bolt BT700, Plantronics Backbeat Fit 3100, Sennheiser MTW and Soul Emotion.
> 
> The reviewers number one criteria is ambient mode or lack of complete isolation.


Interesting, what didn't they like about the Earin M2 ? Still thinking of picking up a pair...maybe


----------



## HAMS (Jun 12, 2019)

My experience with qcy t1c. If it's on the smaller side I don't think most TWS will fit my ear. Still I've been using TRN BT20 paired with my fav IEM exclusively for 3 months, it's been great, I lose some SQ but I can't give up the convenience. Lol


----------



## Caipirina

HAMS said:


> My experience with qcy t1c. If it's on the smaller side I don't think most TWS will fit my ear. Still I've been using TRN BT20 paired with my fav IEM exclusively for 3 months, it's been great, I lose some SQ but I can't give up the convenience. Lol



Which reminds me, weren't the BT20S supposed to have dropped by now? So greedy to get those, also still have the MMCX version in the mail to get even more of my IEMs on the go ... for me hands down product of the year!


----------



## Dcell7

DigDub said:


> Don't bother with the TFZ B.V2 unless you are fine with a play time of slightly less than 3 hours. The 15 hours is grossly misrepresented.



I agree. The connection to the left bud is iffy. If you put your hands over the right unit the left unit will lose connection. My charging case somehow was drained today even when i haven’t used them for a week due to an ear infection. The sound is ok though but for twice the price of for example QCY T1C i would look for other options.


----------



## Slater

Caipirina said:


> Which reminds me, weren't the BT20S supposed to have dropped by now? So greedy to get those, also still have the MMCX version in the mail to get even more of my IEMs on the go ... for me hands down product of the year!



https://www.head-fi.org/threads/trn-impressions-thread.881761/page-19#post-15003548


----------



## AtariPrime

doo_wop said:


> not a bad price for QCC3026
> https://cambridgeaudio.com/gbr/en/products/melomania-1/buy
> 
> https://www.mobilegeeks.de/test/cambridge-audio-melomania-1/
> a review in German, the only complaint seems to be micro USB



After I saw your post I started looking into these.  They had a lot of promise, great battery life, reputable company, Bluetooth 5.0, and they looked small.  But that last one wasn't true and turned out to be the killer flaw for me.  There isn't a lot of info out there for these yet, but there is a video and a couple of still photos that show their size. At first glance they look like the Earin M-2, but they are not anywhere near the same size. These are much larger.  Take a look at the photo below as reference.



 

These are the epitomy of Frankenstein corks.  They are huge.  As a result, no matter how good the connectivity, the battery life, or the sound, I think these are a pass for me.


----------



## AtariPrime

GrindedDown said:


> As luck would have it, earlier this year, Sony filed with the FCC for a a new wireless earbud and I believe it was called the WF-1000xm3. We just may see a new wireless model from Sony and hopefully they can improve upon the shortcomings like connection issues and battery life. I’ll buy a pair for sure as I really like the Sony sound.



I am curious to see what Sony comes up with.  So far they have been trailing behind most of the competition in the wireless earbud market.  They have to up their battery life and decrease the size of their earbuds both by about 50%.  If they can do that, they should have a good competitor to challenge with.


----------



## Caipirina

Slater said:


> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/trn-impressions-thread.881761/page-19#post-15003548


Thanks Slater, I thought Kopiokaya said the same thing like 10 days ago...  well, on that occasion I also skimmed through that whole cable gate ... and that the 20S will not have as much improvement as I might have hoped (somehow I thought I had read ipx5 coming) ... now I am curious what KZ might come up with


----------



## nc8000

webvan said:


> Interesting, what didn't they like about the Earin M2 ? Still thinking of picking up a pair...maybe



He found them fiddely to use and didn’t find the sound as hiend as most of the other offerings. I love them and find the sound perfectly fine.


----------



## vstolpner

Caipirina said:


> Thanks Slater, I thought Kopiokaya said the same thing like 10 days ago...  well, on that occasion I also skimmed through that whole cable gate ... and that the 20S will not have as much improvement as I might have hoped (somehow I thought I had read ipx5 coming) ... now I am curious what KZ might come up with



Totally agree...
I know KZ has had some issues with Bluetooth connectivity, but hopefully their next set will improve on that...
Very interested


----------



## hifi80sman

AtariPrime said:


> I am curious to see what Sony comes up with.  So far they have been trailing behind most of the competition in the wireless earbud market.  They have to up their battery life and decrease the size of their earbuds both by about 50%.  If they can do that, they should have a good competitor to challenge with.


Let's hope they increase battery life as priority #1.  That really killed the WF-1000X for me.  It would die mid-workout.

These look compelling, have ANC, and 10 hours battery life on a single charge.  Not out yet, but likely specs out the same as the one below.  Interesting point, they just use the phrase "USB Cable" in the pre-launch description as opposed to "Micro USB Cable", which appears in the product description for little brother.
https://cleeraudio.com/product/ally-plus/

The non-ANC version is already out, and it specs out nicely.  Someone go buy it and let me know!  
https://cleeraudio.com/product/ally/

- BT 5
- AAC, aptX
- 10 Hour Battery
- IPX5

BUT...

- Micro USB *cringe*


----------



## AtariPrime

hifi80sman said:


> Let's hope they increase battery life as priority #1.  That really killed the WF-1000X for me.  It would die mid-workout.
> 
> These look compelling, have ANC, and 10 hours battery life on a single charge.  Not out yet, but likely specs out the same as the one below.  Interesting point, they just use the phrase "USB Cable" in the pre-launch description as opposed to "Micro USB Cable", which appears in the product description for little brother.
> https://cleeraudio.com/product/ally-plus/
> ...



The Micro USB doesn't bother me.  Actually, I've never understood what the issue is there for some.  USB-C may have faster speeds, ok, but the case shouldn't take very long to charge regardless and considering the case is what is charging the earbud, it shouldn't be an issue most of the time.

The Cleer Audio Ally series popped up recently in the forum.  It has some promise, and the size is reasonably appealing.  They could be a bit smaller, but I think they will serve the needs.  I don't know much about Cleer Audio other than their primary sales are in Europe.  They do look like a good competitor though.  I'd be curious to read some reviews that discuss how they function in practice and how they sound.


----------



## cityle

AtariPrime said:


> USB-C may have faster speeds


USB-C does not have faster charging speed. USB 3.0 does. USB-is only the physical connector, and most implementation of USB-C on accessories are USB 2.0. The advantage of USB-C is having one connector and one cable for all your device. Both my laptop and my phone charge via USB-C, so having a wireless headphone charging via USB-C would mean I have to carry only one charging brick and one cable for all my devices.


----------



## nc8000

cityle said:


> USB-C does not have faster charging speed. USB 3.0 does. USB-is only the physical connector, and most implementation of USB-C on accessories are USB 2.0. The advantage of USB-C is having one connector and one cable for all your device. Both my laptop and my phone charge via USB-C, so having a wireless headphone charging via USB-C would mean I have to carry only one charging brick and one cable for all my devices.



I just have one micro usb cable and then 3 tiny adapters for usb-c, lightning and wm port


----------



## vstolpner

cityle said:


> The advantage of USB-C is having one connector and one cable for all your device.



I'm in the same boat. Even picked up a couple USB-C to microUSB adapters so I can use my type-C cable for my microUSB earphones. 

Type-C would be nearly mandatory in order to check all the right boxes.


----------



## hifi80sman (Jun 12, 2019)

vstolpner said:


> I'm in the same boat. Even picked up a couple USB-C to microUSB adapters so I can use my type-C cable for my microUSB earphones.
> 
> Type-C would be nearly mandatory in order to check all the right boxes.


The connector itself is also reversible, so if you have kids running around (or wife ), they won't mess up the port by trying to jam them in upside down.  This has happened a few times, hence one of the reasons I'm not a fan of Micro USB (even before there was USB C).  That, and the fact it minimizes the number of cables.  When you have 5+ people in your household, it begins to matter.  LOL!  USB C to USB C also decreases the port footprint on computers and again, gives you a seamless reversible connector.  Plus, it just looks better.  I'm all about things being "even".  If a headphone adjustment slider is looser on one side, I'll exchange the headphone for another one.  Don't even get me started on the click consistency of buttons.  Yes, I have issues...major, major, issues.


----------



## hifi80sman

MidSmoothness said:


> I just bought myself a Cowin KY02, looks like neat little TWS buds


Does the Cowin KY02 support AAC?


----------



## BigZ12

hifi80sman said:


> Does the Cowin KY02 support AAC?


Why does so many brands exclude the info of the codecs supported??? It's f....... annoying!


----------



## BigZ12

BigZ12 said:


> Why does so many brands exclude the info of the codecs supported??? It's f....... annoying!


Page up and down with pictures, features, bragging and more bragging... but codecs? Nope, that seems to be a secret... What?


----------



## Slater (Jun 12, 2019)

BigZ12 said:


> Page up and down with pictures, features, bragging and more bragging... but codecs? Nope, that seems to be a secret... What?



It just goes to show that most consumers are just dumb sheep and only care about a brand name or if an Instagram influencer or PewDiePie recommends it. Or at least that’s how most manufacturers see the average consumer.

Ask a random Beats owner on the street what size drivers are in their headphones, what material the diaphragm is made out of, or what the impedance rating is. They’ll look at you like you’re from outer space, right before they go on and on about how cool the headphone color matches their tennis shoes and flat-billed baseball hat.


----------



## FYLegend

vstolpner said:


> I'm in the same boat. Even picked up a couple USB-C to microUSB adapters so I can use my type-C cable for my microUSB earphones.
> 
> Type-C would be nearly mandatory in order to check all the right boxes.


Unless you have a Android phone or laptop from the past 2-3 years it's not as much of an issue. I'm fine with paying 10-15$ more for a Type C port but I suspect the production cost is holding manufacturers back. Astrotec decided on microUSB for their first run of S80 but says they might switch to type C for the second batch. Still, I am somewhat appalled by higher brands like Audio-Technica holding back due to such.

Those type C to micro adapters are nice but hard to come by. Most legitimate manufacturers don't sell them because they are against USB-IF standard, though I see Miniso carries them (though their type C to A cables already seem dodgy in terms of compliance). I have a cheap one I use for charging my audio devices but it has got somewhat loose. I wouldn't trust them for data transfer. Any particular recommendations?

Also, few type-C charging TWS are compatible with Type C to Type C/USB PD.  Maybe some of the more expensive ones do, but even the RHA TrueConnect doesn't support charging Type C to Type A.

Can someone confirm if Sabbat E12, Creative Outlier Air and NuForce support PD?


----------



## MidSmoothness

hifi80sman said:


> Does the Cowin KY02 support AAC?



They definitely do


----------



## AtariPrime

vstolpner said:


> I'm in the same boat. Even picked up a couple USB-C to microUSB adapters so I can use my type-C cable for my microUSB earphones.
> 
> Type-C would be nearly mandatory in order to check all the right boxes.



Why?  Cables are easily enterchangable and don't take up much space.  What is the harm in having one small cable thrown in a suitcase or pocket of a backpack.  I get the desire for a universal cable, but its not like having two is a major inconvenience.


----------



## vstolpner

AtariPrime said:


> Why?  Cables are easily enterchangable and don't take up much space.  What is the harm in having one small cable thrown in a suitcase or pocket of a backpack.  I get the desire for a universal cable, but its not like having two is a major inconvenience.



It's not a major inconvenience, no. But I really want to have everything on one - a nice retractable USB-C cable. And when you have a few cables in the bag they tend to get tangled.


----------



## OnTheRoad

What's a good pair of wireless iems to get for podcasts, audio books and a little music? Preferably under or around $50. Any insights are greatly appreciated. : )


----------



## vstolpner

OnTheRoad said:


> What's a good pair of wireless iems to get for podcasts, audio books and a little music? Preferably under or around $50. Any insights are greatly appreciated. : )



Not sure how well these would work for podcasts as I don't listen to those. But I've been using Anbes 359 recently and have been very happy with them. Last I saw they were about $40 USD less 30% coupon on Amazon.com, so well within your budget.

Have tried SoundPeats TrueFree and they're close to the Anbes but I feel the Anbes are better.

Alternatively, if you already have a pair of IEM's with a removable cable then you should really take a look at the TRN BT20.


----------



## hifi80sman

OnTheRoad said:


> What's a good pair of wireless iems to get for podcasts, audio books and a little music? Preferably under or around $50. Any insights are greatly appreciated. : )


For the price, can't really beat the Anbes 359 for music.  However, they are bassy, so may not be the best for narrators with deep voices.  I also have these, which I'd probably recommend for your uses, especially since it sounds like music is secondary.  I find the Comexion comfortable with a pleasant sound profile.  Touch controls are also pretty responsive as well.


----------



## FYLegend

How's SBC performance of Anbes 359 and Sabbat E12? It's important if I'm using them on a Windows laptop. Jabra 65t is barely different with SBC vs AAC, while Astrotec S60 sounds a tad more distorted and boomy in the bass.


----------



## LajostheHun

Got the Sabbat E 12 today, unfortunately it's going back.
The pros: Quality  build and looks,lokks very stylish IMO, very comfortable,and good seal. USB-C and wireless charging.
Cons: Sound quality! Basically midrange and highs are almost non existent creating a very "hollow" sound. All it has is bass and lots of it for sure. Tried all the tips I could fit, but they made no difference at all, and even EQ wasn't much of a help. Very disappointing since I was really looking forward to this. Bummer! My Mifo O5 remains my only TWS  that so far passed my requirements, and keeps me happy overall.


----------



## Soreniglio

Guys, it seems that Sabbat E12 are a bit of a scam, I read only bad reviews on here lately.

I'd like something that sounds balanced, on the cheap side tho. I heard good things about these Tranya T3, anyone heard anything about them?

My Creative were great, audio quality wise.

Would TISO I4 good to go? I heard they are quite balanced and rock solid.


----------



## BigZ12 (Jun 14, 2019)

Syllable 101 were a disappointment. Got them today, and guess I will never use them again.
Got good seal, and they were fairly comfortable but the sound was far behind Anbes 359 and QCY T2C.
The midrange was too exaggerated, and I felt like sitting in a box when listening to them. The bass were also a bit thin.

Edit: Unusable to watch videos with, because of bad lip synch too.


----------



## vstolpner

LajostheHun said:


> My Mifo O5 remains my only TWS  that so far passed my requirements, and keeps me happy overall.



Which version do you have? Standard or professional?


----------



## d3myz

OnTheRoad said:


> What's a good pair of wireless iems to get for podcasts, audio books and a little music? Preferably under or around $50. Any insights are greatly appreciated. : )


I pretty much exclusively use my TWS' for audiobooks. I really like the QCY T1 Pro, crisp treble and mid, good volume. QCY T1 are almost as good, but they don't quite sparkle as much and the volume isnt' nearly as loud, but fine for most situations. I also use the anbes 359, and the Tiso i4 bot have less treble, more mid and bass. the anbes are the loudest of the bunch. The T1 pros are my fav and they are touch control, but no volume control.


----------



## Bhelpoori

BigZ12 said:


> Syllable 101 were a disappointment. Got them today, and guess I will never use them again.
> Got good seal, and they were fairly comfortable but the sound was far behind Anbes 359 and QCY T2C.
> The midrange was too exaggerated, and I felt like sitting in a box when listening to them. The bass were also a bit thin.
> 
> Edit: Unusable to watch videos with, because of bad lip synch too.


I just checked the lip sync on videos with mine and on YouTube it was awful, but on most anything else: Netflix, Apple Music, Tidal videos etc, it was good. I agree with the soundstage comment but the rest sounds very different from mine. I wonder if I just got lucky given yours and @actorlife’s issues?


----------



## meinessex

AtariPrime said:


> After I saw your post I started looking into these.  They had a lot of promise, great battery life, reputable company, Bluetooth 5.0, and they looked small.  But that last one wasn't true and turned out to be the killer flaw for me.  There isn't a lot of info out there for these yet, but there is a video and a couple of still photos that show their size. At first glance they look like the Earin M-2, but they are not anywhere near the same size. These are much larger.  Take a look at the photo below as reference.
> 
> 
> 
> These are the epitomy of Frankenstein corks.  They are huge.  As a result, no matter how good the connectivity, the battery life, or the sound, I think these are a pass for me.




They really aren't large at all, 15mm diameter x 25mm long. That counts as pretty tiny in my book.

Those images are clearly Photoshopped to show off the product, in actual use they are barely noticeable in the ear. Small enough to wear while lying on your side with your head in the pillow.

Picked up a pair this morning, early impressions are good. Best bluetooth range of any I have tried, zero drop outs, there are just the quality IEM's you would expect from a company like Cambridge.

Sound wise all good so far, lots of detail, bass is more than adequate, huge soundstage.

Don't let some lousy Photoshop pics put you off.


----------



## BigZ12

Bhelpoori said:


> I just checked the lip sync on videos with mine and on YouTube it was awful, but on most anything else: Netflix, Apple Music, Tidal videos etc, it was good. I agree with the soundstage comment but the rest sounds very different from mine. I wonder if I just got lucky given yours and @actorlife’s issues?


I have checked with an Avantree transmitter (AptX) from my HTPC (testing a couple of mkv's) and Youtube on my iPhone X (AAC). Both with terrible lip synch.

Midrange exaggerated as I said, and sooo narrow sounding. (Voices in music sounds terrible, I don't know how to explain it better than it feels "boxy"). 
Bass is also more midbass driven, it goes deep enough but my ears are just focused on the narrow sounding midrange and midbass 
When listening to just one bud, it actually sounds ok, as it's something wrong with the pairing when both buds are in use? Like a phase problem?
Or is this just what the missing soundstage is about?


----------



## nc8000

meinessex said:


> They really aren't large at all, 15mm diameter x 25mm long. That counts as pretty tiny in my book.
> 
> Those images are clearly Photoshopped to show off the product, in actual use they are barely noticeable in the ear. Small enough to wear while lying on your side with your head in the pillow.
> 
> ...



They look very good but there is no mention of an ambient mode anywhere I’ve looked and that is a must for me


----------



## Bhelpoori (Jun 14, 2019)

BigZ12 said:


> I have checked with an Avantree transmitter (AptX) from my HTPC (testing a couple of mkv's) and Youtube on my iPhone X (AAC). Both with terrible lip synch.
> 
> Midrange exaggerated as I said, and sooo narrow sounding. (Voices in music sounds terrible, I don't know how to explain it better than it feels "boxy").
> Bass is also more midbass driven, it goes deep enough but my ears are just focused on the narrow sounding midrange and midbass
> ...


I have had one time when the left side and right side lost connection very strangely, which hasn’t happened again. I have had occasional issues where left and right half connected, which is just weird. The Anbes is more stable in that regard, but needed a complete reset after being close to some interference.

The video-audio sync on YouTube is something that is chipset and software dependent, so the difference here is that Anbes uses Realtek and Syllable uses Qualcomm. Anbes is better with YouTube on my iPhone but not perfect at all, whilst the Syllable are awful. Luckily, I don’t watch YouTube much, so didn’t notice until you pointed it out. 

I do think there is something wrong probably with one bud but precisely what, I don’t know.


----------



## meinessex

nc8000 said:


> They look very good but there is no mention of an ambient mode anywhere I’ve looked and that is a must for me


 
Nothing in the user manual about an ambient mode either and no app to download to change any settings or modes. Maybe that will come in the future, but right now function wise they are pretty basic. 

They are quite isolating too, so maybe not for you, but personally I prefer the isolation.


----------



## nc8000

meinessex said:


> Nothing in the user manual about an ambient mode either and no app to download to change any settings or modes. Maybe that will come in the future, but right now function wise they are pretty basic.
> 
> They are quite isolating too, so maybe not for you, but personally I prefer the isolation.



I want the isolation but want easy access to the environment as well which is why I love the Earin M2. Stop the music and full ambient is on, start music and ambient is fully off. I would just like more battery life than the just over 3 hours the M2 supply but still want them to be as small as possible.


----------



## LajostheHun

vstolpner said:


> Which version do you have? Standard or professional?


Standard.


----------



## mikp

BigZ12 said:


> I have checked with an Avantree transmitter (AptX) from my HTPC (testing a couple of mkv's) and Youtube on my iPhone X (AAC). Both with terrible lip synch.
> 
> Midrange exaggerated as I said, and sooo narrow sounding. (Voices in music sounds terrible, I don't know how to explain it better than it feels "boxy").
> Bass is also more midbass driven, it goes deep enough but my ears are just focused on the narrow sounding midrange and midbass
> ...



Also got the s101, not found them abnormal lip sync regarding aptx. Can watch something on android apps like "rikstv" or vance youtube. But I think I mentioned somewhere on here that they are more narrow than the mavins, small soundstage. Vocals like Kari Bremnes seems to be inside your head compared to the mavins. Other than that I have no problems listening to them for 30$. 

Mavins are still better, but when I want some "intimate" sound this is a cheap option. ( I like wide soundstage..so calling these intimate maybe too positive).


----------



## AtariPrime (Jun 14, 2019)

meinessex said:


> They really aren't large at all, 15mm diameter x 25mm long. That counts as pretty tiny in my book.
> 
> Those images are clearly Photoshopped to show off the product, in actual use they are barely noticeable in the ear. Small enough to wear while lying on your side with your head in the pillow.
> 
> ...



I don't see any editing in the photo but I grant that it is possible.  I have seen another image though and a video.  They are faily large in all three sources that I have seen.  I will grant though that both the two images I have seen and the video show them on rather petite women.

Can you put up some pics of you wearing them for reference?

From a Youtube video below:


----------



## hifi80sman

LajostheHun said:


> Got the Sabbat E 12 today, unfortunately it's going back.
> The pros: Quality  build and looks,lokks very stylish IMO, very comfortable,and good seal. USB-C and wireless charging.
> Cons: Sound quality! Basically midrange and highs are almost non existent creating a very "hollow" sound. All it has is bass and lots of it for sure. Tried all the tips I could fit, but they made no difference at all, and even EQ wasn't much of a help. Very disappointing since I was really looking forward to this. Bummer! My Mifo O5 remains my only TWS  that so far passed my requirements, and keeps me happy overall.


That's very interesting.  I like the Sabbat E12 quite a bit, but disliked the Mifo O5 (especially the small buttons).  Not a right or wrong thing, just a testament to how much difference there is in this game.  Some people love onions, some hate them.


----------



## vstolpner

LajostheHun said:


> Standard.



I'm playing with the mifo O5 professional version right now and comparing to the Anbes 359. The Anbes definitely have more base, but I'm finding with the O5'S breaking in, the base is slowly coming alive too.

You haven't by chance tried the Astrotec S60?


----------



## LajostheHun

vstolpner said:


> I'm playing with the mifo O5 professional version right now and comparing to the Anbes 359. The Anbes definitely have more base, but I'm finding with the O5'S breaking in, the base is slowly coming alive too.
> 
> You haven't by chance tried the Astrotec S60?


no.


----------



## LajostheHun

hifi80sman said:


> That's very interesting.  I like the Sabbat E12 quite a bit, but disliked the Mifo O5 (especially the small buttons).  Not a right or wrong thing, just a testament to how much difference there is in this game.  Some people love onions, some hate them.



Yeah after my research I was positive that the two is very close sound wise, but no cigar!


----------



## BigZ12

mikp said:


> Also got the s101, not found them abnormal lip sync regarding aptx. Can watch something on android apps like "rikstv" or vance youtube. But I think I mentioned somewhere on here that they are more narrow than the mavins, small soundstage. Vocals like Kari Bremnes seems to be inside your head compared to the mavins. Other than that I have no problems listening to them for 30$.
> 
> Mavins are still better, but when I want some "intimate" sound this is a cheap option. ( I like wide soundstage..so calling these intimate maybe too positive).


Thank you. "Vocals inside your head", that explains what I mean too


----------



## BigZ12

BigZ12 said:


> Thank you. "Vocals inside your head", that explains what I mean too



Edit: Tested Netflix on iPhone now, and no lipsync.


----------



## hifi80sman

AtariPrime said:


> I don't see any editing in the photo but I grant that it is possible.  I have seen another image though and a video.  They are faily large in all three sources that I have seen.  I will grant though that both the two images I have seen and the video show them on rather petite women.
> 
> Can you put up some pics of you wearing them for reference?
> 
> From a Youtube video below:


Frankenstein's Monster is a blonde woman now?  Damn, looking good!


----------



## hifi80sman

LajostheHun said:


> Yeah after my research I was positive that the two is very close sound wise, but no cigar!


You should try the Aukey T10.  They are balanced out the gate and sound very good via AAC/iPhone.  Very clean sound.


----------



## Slater

AtariPrime said:


>



That looks ridiculous. They could have at least made the edges rounded vs perfect cylinders. Like others have stated, it looks like corks sticking out of the ears.


----------



## hifi80sman

Slater said:


> That looks ridiculous. They could have at least made the edges rounded vs perfect cylinders. Like others have stated, it looks like corks sticking out of the ears.


Anytime the first word that comes to mind is "bulbous", it's back to the drawing board, skipper!

Anyone else have any feedback on the COWIN KY02 [Upgraded]?  Calls?  Bass?  Clarity?  Been looking at these lately, but just haven't pulled the trigger.


----------



## nc8000

Slater said:


> That looks ridiculous. They could have at least made the edges rounded vs perfect cylinders. Like others have stated, it looks like corks sticking out of the ears.



It’s actually interesting that those outer dimensions of 15x27mm are exactly the same dimensions as the Earin M2, the shaping of the M2 body is just different and the M2 are tiny


----------



## Slater

nc8000 said:


> It’s actually interesting that those outer dimensions of 15x27mm are exactly the same dimensions as the Earin M2, the shaping of the M2 body is just different and the M2 are tiny



Yeah, that’s a good example of how to reshape something to give the illusion of a smaller size. Soft rounded surfaces catch light differently, chamfered edges, etc.


----------



## nc8000

Slater said:


> Yeah, that’s a good example of how to reshape something to give the illusion of a smaller size. Soft rounded surfaces catch light differently, chamfered edges, etc.



That’s the Havit G1 and they are huge by comparison. The M2 are on the right in my photo


----------



## Slater

nc8000 said:


> That’s the Havit G1 and they are huge by comparison. The M2 are on the right in my photo



So imagine how much bigger they’d be if they were ‘cork’ shaped, without  the rounded and chamfered edges


----------



## nc8000

Slater said:


> So imagine how much bigger they’d be if they were ‘cork’ shaped, without  the rounded and chamfered edges



Gargantuan


----------



## AtariPrime (Jun 14, 2019)

One of these things is not like the other, one of these things must die alone. 

Hint:  It's the one with the brunette lady.  The bottom two photos are the Earin M-2, the top photo is the Cambridge Audio Melomania.


----------



## Slater

AtariPrime said:


> One of these things is not like the other, one of these things must die alone.
> 
> Hint:  It's the one with the brunette lady.



Haha, I swear the photographers must tell some of these models to ‘now show me your stupid face’. The expressions on some of these people’s faces are just cringe worthy...


----------



## Churchill Wu

I would reserve judgement, this is from youtube and shows a normal sized man wearing it - actually looks ok! but lets see when some people on this forum get their hands on them


----------



## hifi80sman (Jun 14, 2019)

Slater said:


> Haha, I swear the photographers must tell some of these models to ‘now show me your stupid face’. The expressions on some of these people’s faces are just cringe worthy...


Looks like that thing's about to fall out!  I'm taking about the earbuds.


----------



## jant71

Looks like she has a kitten or something crawling around in her top there.  Or she should see a doctor about those lumps.


----------



## clerkpalmer

jant71 said:


> Looks like she has a kitten or something crawling around in her top there.  Or she should see a doctor about those lumps.


Man this thread could use a jumpstart... about time for a major company to release a new hi end tw.


----------



## vladzakhar

This is how Melomania looks like in my ears. Definitely, bigger then M2. I say wider, not too much longer.
Stock tips suck. No bass at all. I use one of my own wider tips and bass is much better. Highs and mids are muddy. 
The sound in general is bass heavy if you find the right tips. Definitely, not up to bigger boys sound like Senns.
The isolation is good. I didn't try them outside though.
Very light.
The buttons are nice and easy to press.
I'll use them more, but I am almost certain it will go back to Cambridge Audio.


----------



## dhc0329

Is sennheiser momentum true wireless best device out there at the moment for sound?


----------



## LajostheHun

hifi80sman said:


> You should try the Aukey T10.  They are balanced out the gate and sound very good via AAC/iPhone.  Very clean sound.


Only rocking Android phones but will check it out.


----------



## chinmie

vladzakhar said:


> This is how Melomania looks like in my ears. Definitely, bigger then M2. I say wider, not too much longer.
> Stock tips suck. No bass at all. I use one of my own wider tips and bass is much better. Highs and mids are muddy.
> The sound in general is bass heavy if you find the right tips. Definitely, not up to bigger boys sound like Senns.
> The isolation is good. I didn't try them outside though.
> ...



i see you have the nuarl. how does it compare soundwise?


----------



## MidSmoothness

hifi80sman said:


> Anytime the first word that comes to mind is "bulbous", it's back to the drawing board, skipper!
> 
> Anyone else have any feedback on the COWIN KY02 [Upgraded]?  Calls?  Bass?  Clarity?  Been looking at these lately, but just haven't pulled the trigger.



I’ve posted about the Cowin’s a while ago.

Great set of TWS. A little weird to plug in for me, the nozzle is quite long. When it sits, it sits though and isolation is great. 

Haven’t really tried calls, but I can imagine it works alright. Bass hits the spot. I like my bass and it definitely satisfies me with EDM, Rock, Pop music. Clarity is really nice to be honest for earphones at this price bracket.


----------



## RobinFood

Nuarl announced a new product for the end of July. The NT110, a successor to the very unpopular NT100.

It is going to come with a QCC3020, so it gets APTX, a 9.5 hour battery with 6 charges in case, and an IPX7 waterproof rating. No mention of HDSS though, but it does mention graphene drivers and the case will use usb-c for charging.

Here are the deats (Japanese):

https://www.atpress.ne.jp/news/185792


----------



## vladzakhar

chinmie said:


> i see you have the Nuarl. how does it compare soundwise?


Sound wise I like Nuarl. The sound is more clearer.
I need more time with Melamania. It's starts growing on me.


----------



## jlily82

I was looking at getting the jlab audio air, anyone have any input in these? Looks like they would be good for biking, still dont like using my phone for music as someone always calls during one of my rides.....


----------



## clerkpalmer

jlily82 said:


> I was looking at getting the jlab audio air, anyone have any input in these? Looks like they would be good for biking, still dont like using my phone for music as someone always calls during one of my rides.....


They are average. I had them. Returned them.  Mediocre all around.


----------



## sanakimpro

dhc0329 said:


> Is sennheiser momentum true wireless best device out there at the moment for sound?


Bump. I'm also curious. Debating between Senn MTW and Sony WI-1000x.. WF-1000X sound good but short battery life (<3 hrs) kills it for me. Actually I also tried the Sony WI-C600N and they sound pretty decent at a $150 range.

Thoughts? Maybe Beyer/AK too? Anyone tried the Xelento Wireless?


----------



## actorlife

BigZ12 said:


> Syllable 101 were a disappointment. Got them today, and guess I will never use them again.
> Got good seal, and they were fairly comfortable but the sound was far behind Anbes 359 and QCY T2C.
> The midrange was too exaggerated, and I felt like sitting in a box when listening to them. The bass were also a bit thin.
> 
> Edit: Unusable to watch videos with, because of bad lip synch too.


Agreed. I didn't have any sych issues with the S101 unless I walked away from watching YouTube. Too bad since it has aptx(Cayin N3) that they could not be clear and sparkly. The Anbes does not have aptx, but damn do they shine on my N3 so darn sparkly.  The same with the Sabbat X12 and it seemed they did the same thing with the E12. No happy no treble.


----------



## clerkpalmer

atoniolin said:


> Bump. I'm also curious. Debating between Senn MTW and Sony WI-1000x.. WF-1000X sound good but short battery life (<3 hrs) kills it for me. Actually I also tried the Sony WI-C600N and they sound pretty decent at a $150 range.
> 
> Thoughts? Maybe Beyer/AK too? Anyone tried the Xelento Wireless?


MTW or MW07 are the best sounding. If you polled people here, probably 60/40 in favor of the MW07. I don’t think the 1000x competes with either at this point. It’s not even competitive at 150. For that money, buy the Nuarl. Xelento wireless is a 750 plus iem and isn’t a fair comparison. I’ve owned the wired version and haven’t tried wireless but I’m sure they are outstanding. For something in the same price range maybe the Audeze isine 10 plus Bluetooth cable but they are open back.


----------



## jlily82

clerkpalmer said:


> They are average. I had them. Returned them.  Mediocre all around.



I assumed, but was thinking if they would be good for biking only since there's so much other noise when I ride?


----------



## Iron-Buddha (Jun 15, 2019)

Back in the market for true wireless after I put my Beoplay E8 through the wash.  Surprisingly they still work but have a permanent red light on....which is concerning. Was never happy with them, uneven bass (much less in the left side), unstable imaging (also probably due to the left side).   

I've been reading the Senn MTW has the best audio but the battery drain remains an issue.   Do people have practical experience if this is really an issue?   I'm done with Beoplay.


----------



## albau

dhc0329 said:


> Is sennheiser momentum true wireless best device out there at the moment for sound?


Don't have Senns but enjoy M&D MW07. Many who had both here on the thread will tell you that SQ-wise they're equal or MW07 are even better. To me MW07 sound like a good $150 pair of dynamic wired IEMs with an amazing, for any IEM, soundstage. But their battery on a single charge sucks at barely 2.5 hours before warning. I hear that Senns have their own set of problems.


----------



## C_Lindbergh

The Senn MTW sounded awesome, and were comfy, but in the end I returned mine. It was impossible to live it with all the battery drain and connection problems. I could leave them in the case for a day, then when I really needed them for lets say a work out they were empty...


----------



## dhc0329

RobinFood said:


> Nuarl announced a new product for the end of July. The NT110, a successor to the very unpopular NT100.
> 
> It is going to come with a QCC3020, so it gets APTX, a 9.5 hour battery with 6 charges in case, and an IPX7 waterproof rating. No mention of HDSS though, but it does mention graphene drivers and the case will use usb-c for charging.
> 
> ...



NUARL True Wireless currently being sold @ amazon received the excellent users feedback. Is this a newer model?


----------



## RobinFood (Jun 15, 2019)

dhc0329 said:


> NUARL True Wireless currently being sold @ amazon received the excellent users feedback. Is this a newer model?



The Nuarl AT series was amazing and recieved great reviews.
Their  NT sports series though were not, and recieved poor reviews.

Hopefully that will change with this set. I hope the new chipset will fix the connection issues many people complained about in the nt100.


----------



## howdy

I'm one who prefer the sound of the Senns over MW07 which is why I sold them for the 2nd time. As for battery, as long as you charge them ever 4 days you'll be fine, every charges their phone every day so every 4th day shouldn't be to hard for the Sennheiser. I have the senns and E8s as my "top" sounding but generally still use my Earin M2s for convenience.


----------



## Soreniglio

Guys, what should I choose over Anbes 359 and Syllable S101? Both seem to be really good.

I honestly don't dig the shape of Syllable too much.


----------



## Bhelpoori

Soreniglio said:


> Guys, what should I choose over Anbes 359 and Syllable S101? Both seem to be really good.
> 
> I honestly don't dig the shape of Syllable too much.


I have both and whilst I have a good S101, there is some concern that I'm lucky, so unless you really need double the battery life I'd go for the Anbes 359.


----------



## cigarello

Hey guys, what are your favourite ear tips? I have the Anbes 359 and wanting to know which I should get as I am not getting the best seal out of the stock tips nor the sony hybrids. I'm thinking either Spiraldots or Spinfits? Thanks!


----------



## vstolpner

Soreniglio said:


> Guys, what should I choose over Anbes 359 and Syllable S101? Both seem to be really good.
> 
> I honestly don't dig the shape of Syllable too much.



I haven't tried the S101, but the Anbes are easy to recommend.


----------



## vstolpner

cigarello said:


> Hey guys, what are your favourite ear tips? I have the Anbes 359 and wanting to know which I should get as I am not getting the best seal out of the stock tips nor the sony hybrids. I'm thinking either Spiraldots or Spinfits? Thanks!



That's probably a really personal question as what fits me well will likely not fit you well. That said, I've just tried the spinfits and they're pretty good. Also had good luck with UE's eartips - found them to be very thin, flexible, and well forming to the ears


----------



## Bhelpoori (Jun 16, 2019)

Bhelpoori said:


> I have both and whilst I have a good S101, there is some concern that I'm lucky, so unless you really need double the battery life I'd go for the Anbes 359.


I'd also add that the S101 with stock tips don't sound as good as the Anbes. I only prefer the S101 with Spinfit CP240 double flange, something I omitted earlier to note, for which I apologise.

Also, whilst both Anbes and S101 are nice, having just reacquainted myself with my Ety ER4XR and Earstudio ES100... they are both far below that combination in sound but significantly more convenient.


----------



## vstolpner (Jun 16, 2019)

So finally getting around to posting my thoughts on the Anbes 359 and mifo O5 Pro's.

*Sound quality:*
The Anbes are definitely more bassy than the mifo's, but still retain a fair bit of detail. I did notice though that if there are imperfections in the recording (hissing, crackling, etc), the Anbes bring those imperfections out while the mifo's will hide them. Interestingly my UE SuperFi's (Knowles BA's) also hide imperfections despise that BA's are much more capable of reproducing details in higher frequencies.
Overall the sound for both was very nice and even the mifo's had a fair bit of base, but didn't have the thump of the Anbes.
I did find the Anbes sometimes muddied up when there was a lot of instruments, but otherwise had good separation though very small soundstage.
The mifo had better separation and wider soundstage and was noticeable clearer.
Most of this shouldn't be a surprise given the mifo is a BA vs. Anbes' dynamic.
I preferred Anbes for rock, pop, while jazz sounded better on the mifo.

*Call quality:*
Both had a delay of about 1 second, but the Anbes sounded better for both parties. I haven't used either in a noisy environment, but I imagine both will be fairly useless for that.

*Design:*
I found the Anbes fit more comfortable, but the button wasn't as easy to press. The mifo buttons are very small (and locations are flipped for left and right ears), but because the mifo's rest on the inside of the ear, pressing the buttons doesn't affect the fit. The mifo's were also easier to throw into the ears and you didn't have to search for a good fit. But they also didn't sit as deep into the ear canal, which IMO reduced the fit quality, sound blocking, and sound quality.
Which reminds me, the Anbes has better noise isolation. I would say the Anbes are the more comfortable to wear for long periods.
The mifo's have dedicated function and +/- buttons, but for some reason they're flipped from right to left ear, so you always hit the wrong button. Nothing you can't get used to, but very strange..
Visually I do find the mifo's more appealing, and the case is much nicer too.

*Connection:*
This is where the Anbes clearly win out. They hold the connection better at the same distances and only at about 5m start to have connectivity issues. The mifo's however have connection issues on a regular basis. This is so bad that they're unusable for enjoying music for me. Interestingly, while for both of these I was able to block signal by putting my hands over my ears, I wasn't able to do this for TRN BT20 - these have a far better connection than either Anbes or mifo's.

*Battery / charging:*
The battery on both earphones is more than enough for me, but although I did have a lower battery (around 30%) on the Anbes, I couldn't get the mifo battery to die at all. I think 7 hours for the mifo is totally reasonable. Probably 3-4 hours for Anbes.
I do wish that the O5's came with USB-C charging, the huge battery in the case makes this a rather small issue. Though it does mean that the case is larger and heavier than I would like. I think around 750mAh for the case battery would be more than enough.

*Other:*
The mifo's produce a high pitched buzzing when the earbuds are charging inside the case. Not a big deal for most, but if you charge them in a quiet environment, you will hear it.
Also, mifo comes with really nice eartips.

*Conclusion:*
For me, the Anbes are clear winners. The mifo's clearly show benefits of BA's, and I'm interested in picking up a good quality BA TWS, but they have too many downsides, even without considering the triple pricetag if the Anbes.

Let me know if you guys have any questions on this.

_PS: this testing was done on Samsung Galaxy S8, with A-B testing being done with both earphones connected at the same time_.


----------



## actorlife

Good review thanks VS. First time I see that the Anbes does not have a wide soundstage?! The Mifo must have super duper soundstage/separation. Are you gonna purchase another TWS soon or are you all set? 

I'll be on the lookout for a TWS with BA(or combo BA/Dynamic or graphene) drivers, perhaps apt-X(Anbes does not have it but still sounds fantastic) and over 7hr battery but under $35-50. I'm in no rush though after you know what...


----------



## vstolpner

Neither soundstage is particularly large. Maybe I'll spoiled by proper HiFi systems. That said, I feel like my UE's do a better job too, but I'll have to look more into it.

Actually battery was one thing I forgot to mention.... Mifo battery just would not die... I think 7 hours for the earbuds alone isn't unreasonable. 

Btw - that was my first proper review (Amazon and to like not counting). So please let me how if I should include anything else


----------



## actorlife (Jun 16, 2019)

Not alot of options out there on BA's TWS except Mifo and a Indiegogo REECHO Audio EchoWeek X1 is closed and ships in June and that was going for $29. Darn.
I found these new on the site cheap option Balanced Armature:
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07S1MRHJH/ref=cm_sw_r_sms_apa_i_5EQbDb0F2WN1K
and
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07NVDRLWL/ref=cm_sw_r_sms_apa_i_TNQbDbC4YX3KW


----------



## vstolpner

There's also the Astrotec S60 (Knowles BAs too). I keep eyeing that one but without ability to return I'm a little weary to spend that much on it.

Very curious about those $19 ones.... Never really cared much about the case, but I really highly doubt they'll be any good.... If only they were in Amazon Canada


----------



## hifi80sman (Jun 17, 2019)

vstolpner said:


> There's also the Astrotec S60 (Knowles BAs too). I keep eyeing that one but without ability to return I'm a little weary to spend that much on it.
> 
> Very curious about those $19 ones.... Never really cared much about the case, but I really highly doubt they'll be any good.... If only they were in Amazon Canada


Picked up the Astrotec S80 that just came out, and man, they are fantastic.  $89 on their website and Ali, but picked them up for $49 on Amazon.  They were $59, but when I added it to my cart, there was a $10 off coupon (it wasn't advertised with a coupon on the listing).

They check off all the boxes, with the exception of USB-C, aptX, and ambient mode (for some), but they absolutely live up to their stats.  Earlier posts on here mention the 2nd batch may come with USB-C, which is perhaps why this batch may be discounted on Amazon.  But hey, at $49, I'm not complaining.

- Beryllium Driver
- AAC Support
- BT 5.0
- IPX5
- 5+ Hour Battery
- Solid Touch Controls

Definitely feeling these.  Very balanced sound, extremely clear, and handles EQ well with no distortion.  As far as SQ, they can certainly hang with the big boys.


----------



## nc8000 (Jun 17, 2019)

Just got some answers from Cambridge Audio about the Melomania 1.

There is not and will never be an app.
They do not support fw updates in any form.
There is no ambient mode.
The active noise cancelling they talk about is only for phone calls


----------



## actorlife

vstolpner said:


> There's also the Astrotec S60 (Knowles BAs too). I keep eyeing that one but without ability to return I'm a little weary to spend that much on it.
> 
> Very curious about those $19 ones.... Never really cared much about the case, but I really highly doubt they'll be any good.... If only they were in Amazon Canada


I was about to buy the $19 one and try it out and all of a sudden they were sold out. If anything at least I can return it. I don't like the shape of the other one.


----------



## vstolpner

hifi80sman said:


> Picked up the Astrotec S80 that just came out, and man, they are fantastic.  $89 on their website and Ali, but picked them up for $49 on Amazon.  They were $59, but when I added it to my cart, there was a $10 off coupon (it wasn't advertised with a coupon on the listing).
> 
> They check off all the boxes, with the exception of USB-C, aptX, and ambient mode (for some), but they absolutely live up to their stats.  Earlier posts on here mention the 2nd batch may come with USB-C, which is perhaps why this batch may be discounted on Amazon.  But hey, at $49, I'm not complaining.
> 
> ...



How do they compare to the Anbes?


----------



## actorlife

$29 
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07M8LWN2G/ref=cm_sw_r_sms_apa_i_k86bDbEM0PYEY


----------



## vstolpner

actorlife said:


> $29
> https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07M8LWN2G/ref=cm_sw_r_sms_apa_i_k86bDbEM0PYEY



Nice! Though they've been at that price with the 30% coupon for a while...

Sabbat E12 on sale - couple hours left and they're almost gone
https://www.amazon.com/Bluetooth-Headphones-Cancelling-Sweatproof-Earphones/dp/B07P758PZ5


----------



## AtariPrime

What is the current story with Earin?  They are advertise their Earin M-2 on Twitter all the time, but if you go to their site, they are also out of stock all the time as well.  I have trouble believing that they are that popular.  Are they having production issues?  Are they restructing after the Will.I.Am deal didn't go forward?  Should we be looking for an M-3 soon?


----------



## nc8000

AtariPrime said:


> What is the current story with Earin?  They are advertise their Earin M-2 on Twitter all the time, but if you go to their site, they are also out of stock all the time as well.  I have trouble believing that they are that popular.  Are they having production issues?  Are they restructing after the Will.I.Am deal didn't go forward?  Should we be looking for an M-3 soon?



I think they’ve been permanently out of stock for many months now. I’ve emailed them and got no reply


----------



## mikp

also earin has been in firmware hell.. fix one problem and create another... And months between fixes.
no amazon for me, so cant easily try new buds and ship them back.

But satisfied with those I got.

Next ones should have
-apt x hd
-ambient sound
-volume c
-some waterproofing
-eartip friendly case and buds


----------



## nc8000

mikp said:


> also earin has been in firmware hell.. fix one problem and create another... And months between fixes.
> no amazon for me, so cant easily try new buds and ship them back.
> 
> But satisfied with those I got.
> ...



I was lucky, didn’t get my M2 until the latest fw update last autumn and have had no problems at all. Would like the battery to last longer but other than that they pretty much tick all my boxes


----------



## james444

nc8000 said:


> I was lucky, didn’t get my M2 until the latest fw update last autumn and have had no problems at all. Would like the battery to last longer but other than that they pretty much tick all my boxes



The M2 have been among the best TWs I've heard. Sadly they had that channel imbalance fw-bug back when I tried them, but apart from that I've been pretty impressed. Thought about re-ordering them several times, but looks like they're gone for good.

I've ordered the Cambridge Audio Melomania 1 instead now, will report back when I get them...


----------



## Caguioa

any reviews on the fostex tm2? is this best true wireless iem right now?


----------



## hifi80sman

vstolpner said:


> How do they compare to the Anbes?


Overall, the sound is more "mature" and will appeal to the traditional "audiophile".  It's very clean, precise, and balanced.  Let's just put it this way, the driver sounds like it's Beryllium.  If I'm going to be clubbin' in my head, I'll grab the Anbes 359.  If I'm having some wine and brie, I'll settle down with the Astrotec S80.

I enjoy many different sound signatures depending on use and mood.


----------



## vstolpner

hifi80sman said:


> Overall, the sound is more "mature" and will appeal to the traditional "audiophile".  It's very clean, precise, and balanced.  Let's just put it this way, the driver sounds like it's Beryllium.  If I'm going to be clubbin' in my head, I'll grab the Anbes 359.  If I'm having some wine and brie, I'll settle down with the Astrotec S80.
> 
> I enjoy many different sound signatures depending on use and mood.



How do you mean they "sound like Bridgman m beryllium drivers"? Haven't heard any of those yet. I assume it's a little closer to balanced armatures in the mid-high range?


----------



## AtariPrime

Caguioa said:


> any reviews on the fostex tm2? is this best true wireless iem right now?



They aren't even in the conversation.  Nor do I think they will be, they look like a hearing aid.  Reviews seem to be largely non-existent.  They are a no name company.  If they were going to be in the conversation they would be noted by reviewers by now.


----------



## vladzakhar

james444 said:


> The M2 have been among the best TWs I've heard. Sadly they had that channel imbalance fw-bug back when I tried them, but apart from that I've been pretty impressed. Thought about re-ordering them several times, but looks like they're gone for good.
> 
> I've ordered the Cambridge Audio Melomania 1 instead now, will report back when I get them...


My Melomania going back to CA. I like the sound and the battery life. 
Unfortunately, the largest stock eartips they provide are too small for my big ears. They more like medium sized.
And the nozzle is huge. I have some eartips which fits, but they can't fit into the charging case.


----------



## hifi80sman

vstolpner said:


> How do you mean they "sound like Bridgman m beryllium drivers"? Haven't heard any of those yet. I assume it's a little closer to balanced armatures in the mid-high range?


Party, yes.  Everything is just "tighter" (bass, etc.) and more precise in it's delivery of content.  It's like an X-Acto Knife vs. Scissors.


----------



## jant71

AtariPrime said:


> They aren't even in the conversation.  Nor do I think they will be, they look like a hearing aid.  Reviews seem to be largely non-existent.  They are a no name company.  If they were going to be in the conversation they would be noted by reviewers by now.



Come back with a little more experience if you are gonna call Fostex a no name company. Even if I'm not liking their TW offering they are an old school big boy and many of us have had there headphones and/or drivers. Think my Creative Aurvana air has Fostex drivers in them. Even though I have not had a branded Fostex I have had nearly 10 that used Fostex/Fosters drivers. Most on Head-fi have probably had a Pioneer or AT or Sony or Senn or Creative or Denon using one.


----------



## Slater (Jun 17, 2019)

AtariPrime said:


> They aren't even in the conversation.  Nor do I think they will be, they look like a hearing aid.  Reviews seem to be largely non-existent.  They are a no name company.  If they were going to be in the conversation they would be noted by reviewers by now.



There’s no reviews because it’s a brand new product.

Specs aren’t bad at all. Qualcomm QCC3026 chip, MMCX, 12hr play time, a phone app with EQ, IPX waterproof rating, AAC and aptX, physical control button, touch sensitive volume control, ambient mode, and independent connections (instead of master/slave).

I’ve seen numerous people in this thread post their ‘ideal wish list’, and this Fostex seems like it would hit every single one.

They remind me of the TRN BT20 adapters. Maybe the behind the ear look isn’t your style, but there are those of us who are huge fans of the TRN BT20, and this is the same basic design.

And as jant71 said, Fostex isn’t a no-name company. They’ve been making some wicked full size headphones (I’ll bet) longer than you’ve been alive. The Japanese are obsessed with their audio. They were the original audiophiles.

If it wasn’t such a ludicrous price I’d consider it. The mmcx design is super versatile, so even if the included IEM isn’t that good, literally any mmcx IEM can be connected.


----------



## actorlife

hifi80sman said:


> Party, yes.  Everything is just "tighter" (bass, etc.) and more precise in it's delivery of content.  It's like an X-Acto Knife vs. Scissors.


I guess it's time for your NEW top five TWS.


----------



## hifi80sman

actorlife said:


> I guess it's time for your NEW top five TWS.


I know!  SQ wise, I'm still partial to the MW07.  They truly sound like _*good *_wired IEMs IMO.  If it wasn't for the crap battery life, I'd be all in on those.  2.5 hours just doesn't cut it.  Oh, and the mic was atrocious, just atrocious for a $300 pair.

At least they have a good starting point if they want to make the perfect TWE.


----------



## hifi80sman

Slater said:


> There’s no reviews because it’s a brand new product.
> 
> Specs aren’t bad at all. Qualcomm QCC3026 chip, MMCX, 12hr play time, a phone app with EQ, IPX waterproof rating, AAC and aptX, physical control button, touch sensitive volume control, ambient mode, and independent connections (instead of master/slave).
> 
> ...


Fostex?  Who are they?  Sounds like some type of glue!

I'm sure @Slater had some fun with the T50RP MK3.


----------



## Slater

hifi80sman said:


> Fostex?  Who are they?  Sounds like some type of glue!
> 
> I'm sure @Slater had some fun with the T50RP MK3.



Believe it or not, I don’t personally own a set. I’ve modded a few for friends, but I’ve never got around to buying my own pair.

The X00 Purplehearts are on my wish list too!

Too many things on my to buy list, and only 2 ears to enjoy all the stuff I already own lol


----------



## actorlife

No vol control. 7hr battery on sale $29:
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07MTGMM8Z/ref=psdc_172541_t1_B07PX93GF4


----------



## hifi80sman (Jun 17, 2019)

Slater said:


> Believe it or not, I don’t personally own a set. I’ve modded a few for friends, but I’ve never got around to buying my own pair.
> 
> The X00 Purplehearts are on my wish list too!
> 
> Too many things on my to buy list, and only 2 ears to enjoy all the stuff I already own lol


So true.  I have to frequently downplay how much "gear" I have.  When people ask, I'm like "12 pairs" and they are flabbergasted at that.  I've just given up on updating my gear list.

Speaking of my inability for self-control, I just picked these up, which are basically the KNZ re-brand, for $40.  BT 5.0 and they do support AAC.  Comfortable fit and seal.  Sound has a bit of a "hollow" characteristic to it, but it's fun and bassy.  Micro USB (*gag*).  Took a few calls and the other party didn't say anything bad about my voice (but I didn't ask them either).  Need more testing on calls, but so far, so good.

Overall, a keeper, but SQ doesn't knock off the Anbes 359 at around the same price point.  I do feel they are more comfortable, however.  YMMV.

Would love to pick up the X00 Purplehearts, but I have to fly under the radar a bit right now with sub-$100 purchases.  The Old Lady starts getting a little naggy whey she sees those $400 purchases here and there.  APPARENTLY paying for a home remodel is not free.  Whatever.


----------



## actorlife

hifi80sman said:


> So true.  I have to frequently downplay how much "gear" I have.  When people ask, I'm like "12 pairs" and they are flabbergasted at that.  I've just given up on updating my gear list.
> 
> Speaking of my inability for self-control, I just picked these up, which are basically the KNZ re-brand, for $40.  BT 5.0 and they do support AAC.  Comfortable fit and seal.  Sound has a bit of a "hollow" characteristic to it, but it's fun and bassy.  Micro USB (*gag*).  Took a few calls and the other party didn't say anything bad about my voice (but I didn't ask them either).  Need more testing on calls, but so far, so good.
> 
> ...


You basically bought the Syllable S101 for an extra 10 bucks.


----------



## chinmie

Caguioa said:


> any reviews on the fostex tm2? is this best true wireless iem right now?



TM2 performance will differ from what paired with it. I'm looking forward to audition one. but seeing the price and charger case size, i might go with a couple of BT20 instead



AtariPrime said:


> They aren't even in the conversation.  Nor do I think they will be, they look like a hearing aid.  Reviews seem to be largely non-existent.  They are a no name company.  If they were going to be in the conversation they would be noted by reviewers by now.



true. it's not like they've been around from the 70's and have products that became a standard in recording community and audio enthusiasts ever. must be a noob company.. ooo.. and they shouldn't exist in the world, right? 



hifi80sman said:


> Fostex?  Who are they?  Sounds like some type of glue!
> 
> I'm sure @Slater had some fun with the T50RP MK3.



swap the first and third letter position, and you'll get a famous brand of women's hygiene pads in my country


----------



## AtariPrime

jant71 said:


> Come back with a little more experience if you are gonna call Fostex a no name company. Even if I'm not liking their TW offering they are an old school big boy and many of us have had there headphones and/or drivers. Think my Creative Aurvana air has Fostex drivers in them. Even though I have not had a branded Fostex I have had nearly 10 that used Fostex/Fosters drivers. Most on Head-fi have probably had a Pioneer or AT or Sony or Senn or Creative or Denon using one.



Pioneer used to make great stuff. Now they are all but dead. Times change.


----------



## zozito

Received one QCY QS1/T1C yesterday. Right earphone not working at all...


----------



## 40760

AtariPrime said:


> Pioneer used to make great stuff. Now they are all but dead. Times change.



How can you compare with Pioneer when Fostex/Foster is very much alive and an OEM to so many of your "Big Name" audio brands?


----------



## Bhelpoori

actorlife said:


> You basically bought the Syllable S101 for an extra 10 bucks.


Possibly a predecessor as it appears not to have the Qualcomm chip of the S101, given the shorter battery life and the lack of AptX??


----------



## BigZ12

zozito said:


> Received one QCY QS1/T1C yesterday. Right earphone not working at all...


You are sure that you didn't pair the left earphone to your phone/source?


----------



## zozito

BigZ12 said:


> You are sure that you didn't pair the left earphone to your phone/source?


I paired the left one, yes...but the right didn'even charge. Then, unpaired left, but no sign of working from the right. May I try one more thing? Thank you


----------



## BigZ12 (Jun 18, 2019)

zozito said:


> I paired the left one, yes...but the right didn'even charge. Then, unpaired left, but no sign of working from the right. May I try one more thing? Thank you


You should just pair the right one (QCY-T1C_R), then the right and left pair themself automatically.


----------



## zozito

I'll try later. But, as I said, the right one seems not to work any more. No light on. Thank you, mate.


----------



## BigZ12

zozito said:


> I'll try later. But, as I said, the right one seems not to work any more. No light on. Thank you, mate.


What if you hold the button for some seconds? No "power off/on sound"? 
You can try to reset the buds?


----------



## zozito

BigZ12 said:


> What if you hold the button for some seconds? No "power off/on sound"?
> You can try to reset the buds?



Thank you, mate. I tried so, because I found a manual in english. But I didn't get any reaction from right earphone. Nevertheless, I'll try again. Thanks.


----------



## Soreniglio

Yo guys, what are the best neutral sounding earphones around? I am 90% sure about buying Anbes 359, but coming to think of it, I really listen to different music genres.

I can listen to Rock/Metal/Hip-Hop, but I also love classical, ambient and vaporwave music or such.

I dunno, is there anything decently neutral for around 30-40 $? I heard Anbes are a bit bassy.


----------



## webvan (Jun 18, 2019)

Still waiting for my TWS T8 (X12 clones) or whatever they're called !

In the meantime I'm still enjoying my 65T/X12 combo. I lost one of the little "sponges" on the X12 so I took out the other one for better "balance" and I noticed that without them the sound changes a lot depending on the position of your head. If you're tying your laces for instance the volume goes down and the sound almost cuts out. One more reason to use the "sponges". I don't know if I'll punch a hole in the replacements  I just put in. I wonder if that hole didn't contribute to one of them coming off. It does add a tad more clarity though. [EDIT - I did one side...big difference in clarity, did the second one !]

I've been offered some Earin M2s at a great price so I'm half tempted but I think I'll be reasonable and wait for the first QC5120 ANC TWEs


----------



## vstolpner

Soreniglio said:


> Yo guys, what are the best neutral sounding earphones around? I am 90% sure about buying Anbes 359, but coming to think of it, I really listen to different music genres.
> 
> I can listen to Rock/Metal/Hip-Hop, but I also love classical, ambient and vaporwave music or such.
> 
> I dunno, is there anything decently neutral for around 30-40 $? I heard Anbes are a bit bassy.



I just did a quick review of the Anbes compared to mifo O5. The Anbes are a little bassy, but not very much - definitely doesn't feel fake and it doesn't overpower the rest of the frequency range.

If you have a set of IEMs that you really like with a removable cable, take a look at TRN BT20/BT20S - I'm very happy with mine, and changing the sound is just ordering a set of different IEMs. Downsides are they're pretty big (sit behind the ear) and don't have a charging case.


----------



## actorlife (Jun 18, 2019)

Soreniglio said:


> Yo guys, what are the best neutral sounding earphones around? I am 90% sure about buying Anbes 359, but coming to think of it, I really listen to different music genres.
> 
> I can listen to Rock/Metal/Hip-Hop, but I also love classical, ambient and vaporwave music or such.
> 
> I dunno, is there anything decently neutral for around 30-40 $? I heard Anbes are a bit bassy.



The Anbes are not neutral. They have an open spacious sound with I like. I still highly recommend them. I have these as well and really like them listed below. Crystal clear like the anbes, but not as big of a soundstage like the Anbes + it's always good to have a few backup pairs. 
These are neutral:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07MYZK9NT/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o08_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
or
https://www.amazon.com/【Upgraded-Cancelling-HonShoop-Lightweight-Headphones/dp/B07L9PJJX1/ref=sr_1_8?keywords=wireless+graphene&qid=1560868879&s=gateway&sr=8-8
*EDIT*
Never heard these but they have graphene drivers which is always a good bet:
https://www.amazon.com/PeohZarr-Wir...graphene+wireless+ear,electronics,152&sr=1-17
or
https://www.amazon.com/Wireless-Ear...=graphene+wireless+ear,electronics,152&sr=1-9
and these 19 bucks. whoa.
https://www.amazon.com/Xawy-Bluetoo...graphene+wireless+ear,electronics,152&sr=1-18


----------



## Slater

zozito said:


> Thank you, mate. I tried so, because I found a manual in english. But I didn't get any reaction from right earphone. Nevertheless, I'll try again. Thanks.



I would delete the pairing in your phone, charge the case up fully to make sure the buds are charged, then reset the QS1/T1C so it ‘forgets’ all previous stored pairings. Then finally redo the pairing process with the right bud only.


----------



## openyoureyes (Jun 18, 2019)

Hello,

does any of the low budget True Wireless (<50$) here come with Multipoint connections?

I only found the Jabra Elite 65t with true Multipoint so far (2 devices at the same time in dual/stereo mode). Most of the low budget True Wireless only have something they call dual Mode (you can pair left earbud with a device and right earbud with another device, but not together with 2 devices).

I want to connect my ipad and my phone at the same time with the TWS. Is this only possible with the Jabras up to now?

Thanks in advance!


----------



## hifi80sman

actorlife said:


> You basically bought the Syllable S101 for an extra 10 bucks.


Does the Syllable S101 support aptX?


----------



## actorlife

hifi80sman said:


> Does the Syllable S101 support aptX?


It says it does on specs, but I doubt it. I don't have apt-x on my phone, but my Cayin N3 does have it. I did not hear anything spectacular when I used it. My Anbes sounded so much better on the N3 and no apt-x on it that I know of. I know that there are some phones that let you know if it's aptx though. I think it the same driver, just less battery life on your tws.


----------



## AtariPrime

palestofwhite said:


> How can you compare with Pioneer when Fostex/Foster is very much alive and an OEM to so many of your "Big Name" audio brands?



I'm not tearing down my speakers or building them from scratch.  I get that some love to do that, I prefer the manufacturer to give me their best effort and if they succeed with producing something great, I'm a happy camper.  Fostex may have been great, and may still be, but their name isn't exactly in the forefront of the public consciousness.  And age doesn't conotate quality necessarily, KLH has been around
for a very long time, and at least in the latter years of their history made products that were right up there with Sunbeam.

Regardless of Fostex's history, there is no denying that the wireless earbud in question is a dog, in appearance, if nothing else.  No one is shopping for a wireless earbud that has a giant hearing aid battery that extends behind the ear.  It could sound great, but for that reason alone, it will fail.


----------



## chinmie

on a side note, i ask my son about which look better or more normal between the QCY T1C and the BT20-iem combo:

he said the BT20 look way less dorky (his words) and cooler than the T1C


----------



## nc8000

AtariPrime said:


> I'm not tearing down my speakers or building them from scratch.  I get that some love to do that, I prefer the manufacturer to give me their best effort and if they succeed with producing something great, I'm a happy camper.  Fostex may have been great, and may still be, but their name isn't exactly in the forefront of the public consciousness.  And age doesn't conotate quality necessarily, KLH has been around
> for a very long time, and at least in the latter years of their history made products that were right up there with Sunbeam.
> 
> Regardless of Fostex's history, there is no denying that the wireless earbud in question is a dog, in appearance, if nothing else.  No one is shopping for a wireless earbud that has a giant hearing aid battery that extends behind the ear.  It could sound great, but for that reason alone, it will fail.



Fostex is a reasonably high profile name in full size headphones, well enough known that there are Massdrop versions of some of them and they used to make all Dennons full size top models


----------



## zozito

Slater said:


> I would delete the pairing in your phone, charge the case up fully to make sure the buds are charged, then reset the QS1/T1C so it ‘forgets’ all previous stored pairings. Then finally redo the pairing process with the right bud only.


The thing is that, as I said, doesn't seem to charge.




By the way...which will you recommend primarily for watching series and movies?

Thanks in advance.


----------



## mikp

hifi80sman said:


> Does the Syllable S101 support aptX?



yes, qcc3020 chip. Those chips seem to be coming to cheaper tws now 
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Wav...009825.html?spm=a2g0o.cart.0.0.284f3c00p2v9Wr


----------



## Slater

zozito said:


> The thing is that, as I said, doesn't seem to charge.
> 
> By the way...which will you recommend primarily for watching series and movies?
> 
> Thanks in advance.



Have you tried rotating the right 180 degrees and seeing if it will charge on the other side? That will tell you if the problem is with the bud or the case.

If the problem is the case, you could try opening the charge case and perhaps seeing if the problem is obvious. There’s only 3 parts inside: a battery, circuit board, and magnet.

As far as your question about what I recommend for movies and TV, I’m the wrong guy to ask on that. The only TW earphones I currently own are the QCY QS1 and TRN BT20.


----------



## vstolpner

[QUOTE="zozito, post: 15015432, member: 
By the way...which will you recommend primarily for watching series and movies?[/QUOTE]

I've had good luck with Anbes 359 - good audio sync with Android (Samsung GS8). If you're on a Qualcomm chip, anything with aptx should work well too.

Keep in mind this goes for recorded content (i.e. YouTube, Netflix, etc). Live content will still have delay - best try regular wireless with aptx-LL for that


----------



## hifi80sman

actorlife said:


> It says it does on specs, but I doubt it. I don't have apt-x on my phone, but my Cayin N3 does have it. I did not hear anything spectacular when I used it. My Anbes sounded so much better on the N3 and no apt-x on it that I know of. I know that there are some phones that let you know if it's aptx though. I think it the same driver, just less battery life on your tws.


I know my version does not support aptX, but have verified through Developer Options that it does support AAC (which it advertises it does).  I think you're right; same design, drivers, but different battery and likely different SoC.


----------



## hifi80sman

mikp said:


> yes, qcc3020 chip. Those chips seem to be coming to cheaper tws now
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Wav...009825.html?spm=a2g0o.cart.0.0.284f3c00p2v9Wr


Were you able to verify yourself it supports aptX or is that just based on the description?  Chi-Fi is notorious for "inaccurate" (if not flat out false) descriptions.


----------



## chinmie

hifi80sman said:


> Were you able to verify yourself it supports aptX or is that just based on the description?  Chi-Fi is notorious for "inaccurate" (if not flat out false) descriptions.



usually they are inaccurate on the description list, but if they advertise it on the photo, chances are it's true


----------



## CocaCola15

vladzakhar said:


> My Melomania going back to CA. I like the sound and the battery life.
> Unfortunately, the largest stock eartips they provide are too small for my big ears. They more like medium sized.
> And the nozzle is huge. I have some eartips which fits, but they can't fit into the charging case.



I have the Megalomania, uh Melomania 1, in the house and love, absolutely love, the sound signature. I did fiddle with the EQ on my iPhone 8+ a bit (with EQ off, volume is somewhat limited) but after trying all combos of their OEM tips, I ended up using their odd OEM foamies, which for some strange reason work for me. The foamies are small, nothing like a Comply in terms of actual foam padding. Plus, as noted above, the sound tubes are huge, I had some old tips that actually fit from other large ST phones I've owned (Monster Miles Davis Trumpets, for one, remember them?) but the issue is the charging case, as also noted. It's a problem. I had the same problem with the Advance Model-X (returned them) and the QCY T1 as well. With the Senn MTWs I the supplied silicone tips fit fine (medium), so no tip rolling. But I completely understand the tip size/rolling issue. Could be an issue for many of the true wireless phones coming out, because of the charging cases not allowing users to try anything but the OEM tips. A drag. The ADVANCE audio folks said there is a Comply that works with their case, but I didn't find them worth it in the end. Sound was much too tipped to upper frequencies for my tastes.

On the other hand, it's a shame you could not get the CAs to work. I may even consider putting the Senns in the FS forum or on Ebay. The CS phones sound that good to me. Only issue is while the battery is rated at 9 hours, not sure I can wear them that long because of the thick STs and relatively light padding on the tips.

Someone earlier mentioned no app, nor firmware or noise canceling. Not sure why it matters. Using the Kaiser Audio app, what else do I need. And firmware? No issue for me. Finally, the NC issue? I just walked the dogs listening to the Melomania's and streets sounds were hard to hear, period. Good enough NC for my uses. If I need NC, stick on a pair of fullsize BT phones (favor the Sony MX 1000 M3). Anyway, at $129, I think the Cambridge Audio Melomania 1s are worth a listen. Also, trying to determine how to get some extra foam tips, so far no help from customer support, but hope they have a few sitting around to sell.


----------



## clerkpalmer

CocaCola15 said:


> I have the Megalomania, uh Melomania 1, in the house and love, absolutely love, the sound signature. I did fiddle with the EQ on my iPhone 8+ a bit (with EQ off, volume is somewhat limited) but after trying all combos of their OEM tips, I ended up using their odd OEM foamies, which for some strange reason work for me. The foamies are small, nothing like a Comply in terms of actual foam padding. Plus, as noted above, the sound tubes are huge, I had some old tips that actually fit from other large ST phones I've owned (Monster Miles Davis Trumpets, for one, remember them?) but the issue is the charging case, as also noted. It's a problem. I had the same problem with the Advance Model-X (returned them) and the QCY T1 as well. With the Senn MTWs I the supplied silicone tips fit fine (medium), so no tip rolling. But I completely understand the tip size/rolling issue. Could be an issue for many of the true wireless phones coming out, because of the charging cases not allowing users to try anything but the OEM tips. A drag. The ADVANCE audio folks said there is a Comply that works with their case, but I didn't find them worth it in the end. Sound was much too tipped to upper frequencies for my tastes.
> 
> On the other hand, it's a shame you could not get the CAs to work. I may even consider putting the Senns in the FS forum or on Ebay. The CS phones sound that good to me. Only issue is while the battery is rated at 9 hours, not sure I can wear them that long because of the thick STs and relatively light padding on the tips.
> 
> Someone earlier mentioned no app, nor firmware or noise canceling. Not sure why it matters. Using the Kaiser Audio app, what else do I need. And firmware? No issue for me. Finally, the NC issue? I just walked the dogs listening to the Melomania's and streets sounds were hard to hear, period. Good enough NC for my uses. If I need NC, stick on a pair of fullsize BT phones (favor the Sony MX 1000 M3). Anyway, at $129, I think the Cambridge Audio Melomania 1s are worth a listen. Also, trying to determine how to get some extra foam tips, so far no help from customer support, but hope they have a few sitting around to sell.



They look ridiculous in the marketing materials. Like worse than Bose. Do they stick out as much as the pictures show?


----------



## Dcell7

zozito said:


> The thing is that, as I said, doesn't seem to charge.



Try giving the one that is not charging a slight press so they make better contact. My QCY has one bud that is iffy. Sometimes i put them back and both charge and sometimes i need to push and wiggle the iffy one a bit before it charges.


----------



## Bhelpoori

hifi80sman said:


> Does the Syllable S101 support aptX?


The S101 supports AptX but only reluctantly as it has a hit on battery life.  I use it connected to my Mac by forcing it that way with confirmation that it is actually using the codec via the Bluetooth logs.


----------



## CocaCola15

clerkpalmer said:


> They look ridiculous in the marketing materials. Like worse than Bose. Do they stick out as much as the pictures show?


Don't think they are that bad really. But I don't give much thought to appearance, they are not as bad as the Sonys I tried awhile back. I have also owned the Nuheara phones and the Jabra 65t. I will say, the fat nozzle could be an issue for people with small ear canals. I had them on for about two hours and got tired wearing them, so fair warning. On the other hand,  most of my TW listening is done for no more than an hour or 90 minutes. If I am at home, I primarily use my ancient JH5 customs with the EarStudio DAC/BT converter (they still sound great, after all these years, and the EarStudio is amazing to me) or Porta Pros or the Sonys. Long answer, but to me, I don't care how they look, within reason.


----------



## clerkpalmer

CocaCola15 said:


> Don't think they are that bad really. But I don't give much thought to appearance, they are not as bad as the Sonys I tried awhile back. I have also owned the Nuheara phones and the Jabra 65t. I will say, the fat nozzle could be an issue for people with small ear canals. I had them on for about two hours and got tired wearing them, so fair warning. On the other hand,  most of my TW listening is done for no more than an hour or 90 minutes. If I am at home, I primarily use my ancient JH5 customs with the EarStudio DAC/BT converter (they still sound great, after all these years, and the EarStudio is amazing to me) or Porta Pros or the Sonys. Long answer, but to me, I don't care how they look, within reason.



I don't really care either but the wide nozzles are a deal breaker for me I think. I've tried other IEMs set up like that and it's almost always a fail.  I don't like that "bullet" design.  No ear fin or stabilize and basically just jam them in there. You have me intrigued by the SQ but too many other draw backs for me to jump.  Surprised in 2019 that someone would make that design choice.


----------



## d3myz

From what i've read the E12 dont' sound as good as the X12, is that correct? why are they more expensive?


----------



## Bartig (Jun 18, 2019)

I haven't shown myself here for a while, still I'd like to give you a brief round-up on my three new favorite true wireless IEM's apart from the QCY QS1 and QS2:

- *1more E1026BT* is the tws I grab the most. I love its balanced, spacious and sweet sound, which I think is the most neutral you can get under 100 dollar so far.

- *Tranya T3* has very large bodies, but boy, does it deliver. It has the most detailed sound I've heard so far on an affordable tws, with a deep and rumbling bass, clear and not too forward mids and properly rolled off highs. I like the detail retrieval and soundstage on these, although vocals can sound a bit tinny compared to the best wired earphones of the same price.

- *Mifo O5* is obviously tuned towards a more relaxing sound signature. Good for listening to while working, which is also easy to do with its six hours or so lasting battery life of the earpieces.

Love them all!


----------



## chinmie

d3myz said:


> From what i've read the E12 dont' sound as good as the X12, is that correct? why are they more expensive?



if you only care about bass volume, then it's hard to beat the E12 in that department.. maybe that's why so many YouTube reviews rate it highly. the driver also seems to have potential.. it's just not tuned correctly (well at least to my ears) 

the mids and treble are uncooked, lo-fi sounding, and overwhelmed by the bass

it is priced higher because the electroplating is so much nicer, the buttons are more pleasant to press, and the charger case finish is more robust and classy looking, also it supports wireless charging.

shame about the tuning.. i really want to like it


----------



## hifi80sman

d3myz said:


> From what i've read the E12 dont' sound as good as the X12, is that correct? why are they more expensive?


Good question.  I can only speak for me, but I have not considered the X12 due to the fact it's an open design.  My guess, is that it doesn't sell as well, so they've lowered the price.  Most *mainstream consumers *want bass, and boy, the E12 certainly does not disappoint.  It's not a muddy bass, it's a deep, resonating sub-bass.  So addicting.  I think the E12 are a fun headphone that you can EQ to make what you want it to be.  Hard to EQ in bass if the drivers can't deliver, but much easier to scale back.  Recessed in the mids, but easy to EQ there.


----------



## CocaCola15 (Jun 18, 2019)

For the member worrying about the Melomania 1 fit, they stay in place. However, Cambridge just emailed me that they will not be selling not have any extra foam tips for their phones. The CSR says Complys will work. Not sure about that. But yes, you can use them with other tips if you charge them without the tips. A drag, really. But might be worth the hassle due to the long battery life and excellent sound.


----------



## d3myz

chinmie said:


> if you only care about bass volume, then it's hard to beat the E12 in that department.. maybe that's why so many YouTube reviews rate it highly. the driver also seems to have potential.. it's just not tuned correctly (well at least to my ears)
> 
> the mids and treble are uncooked, lo-fi sounding, and overwhelmed by the bass
> 
> ...


Thanks for the quick response and detailed explanation. yea that is too bad. Personally I like a very well balanced earphone.


----------



## d3myz

mikp said:


> yes, qcc3020 chip. Those chips seem to be coming to cheaper tws now
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Wav...009825.html?spm=a2g0o.cart.0.0.284f3c00p2v9Wr


These look really nice for the price. have you gotten your hands on them yet? I'd like to know how they sound.


----------



## mikp

d3myz said:


> These look really nice for the price. have you gotten your hands on them yet? I'd like to know how they sound.



not getting them,im full.

waiting for the qcc51xx.  syllable s101 was last in the cheap buds.


----------



## Bartig

d3myz said:


> These look really nice for the price. have you gotten your hands on them yet? I'd like to know how they sound.



Don't know about this one. Wavefun hasn't proven to know anything about tuning so far...


----------



## zozito

Slater said:


> Have you tried rotating the right 180 degrees and seeing if it will charge on the other side? That will tell you if the problem is with the bud or the case.
> 
> If the problem is the case, you could try opening the charge case and perhaps seeing if the problem is obvious. There’s only 3 parts inside: a battery, circuit board, and magnet.
> 
> As far as your question about what I recommend for movies and TV, I’m the wrong guy to ask on that. The only TW earphones I currently own are the QCY QS1 and TRN BT20.


Sorry, but...I cannot make contact with the pins if not in the right side.


----------



## zozito

vstolpner said:


> [QUOTE="zozito, post: 15015432, member:
> By the way...which will you recommend primarily for watching series and movies?



I've had good luck with Anbes 359 - good audio sync with Android (Samsung GS8). If you're on a Qualcomm chip, anything with aptx should work well too.

Keep in mind this goes for recorded content (i.e. YouTube, Netflix, etc). Live content will still have delay - best try regular wireless with aptx-LL for that[/QUOTE]
Thank you, mate.


----------



## d3myz

mikp said:


> not getting them,im full.
> 
> waiting for the qcc51xx.  syllable s101 was last in the cheap buds.


Interesting, where can i find info about the qcc51xx? what are the benefits over the 3xxx series?


----------



## hifi80sman

For what it's worth, the BlitzWolf performed very well during the conference call I was just on.  Very happy with these.  EQing and pushing mids, low-treble, and high-treble, whilst pulling back in the mid-to-upper bass regions, really cleans these things up.  The drivers are decent enough to respond well to EQ.


----------



## mikp

d3myz said:


> Interesting, where can i find info about the qcc51xx? what are the benefits over the 3xxx series?



anc and apt-x hd.. but nothing released yet except a libratone tws that has qcc5121 that only support sbc. Question is if manufacturers will implement the apt-x hd or not.


----------



## hifi80sman (Jun 18, 2019)

mikp said:


> anc and apt-x hd.. but nothing released yet except a libratone tws that has qcc5121 that only support sbc. Question is if manufacturers will implement the apt-x hd or not.


Probably depends on their appetite for the additional licensing fee.  Since wireless audio in general is becoming bigger and bigger, I think it would be a short-sighted move to to save a few bucks vs. a solid product to promote brand/reputation for long-term success.  Unless you're under contract, why use the QCC5121 and SBC?  May as well go with the Realtek RTL8773B with ANC and AAC, which probably costs less.


----------



## CrusaderIce

So the anbes 359 are currently unavailable on amazon, hoping for a possible updated version soon?


----------



## milkybrkid

Just seen this linked over at r/headphones, too complicated for me but someone here might appreciate it,

*Audio over Bluetooth: most detailed information about profiles, codecs, and devices :-*

https://habr.com/en/post/456182/


----------



## vstolpner

milkybrkid said:


> Just seen this linked over at r/headphones, too complicated for me but someone here might appreciate it,
> 
> *Audio over Bluetooth: most detailed information about profiles, codecs, and devices :-*
> 
> https://habr.com/en/post/456182/


Really cool read! Thanks!


----------



## RobinFood

zozito said:


> The thing is that, as I said, doesn't seem to charge.
> 
> By the way...which will you recommend primarily for watching series and movies?
> 
> Thanks in advance.



Stupid question, but is there tape over the charging pins somwhere? Someone had charging issues previously and found clear tape over the pins.


----------



## Slater

RobinFood said:


> Stupid question, but is there tape over the charging pins somwhere? Someone had charging issues previously and found clear tape over the pins.



My QS1 didn’t come with tape, but you bring up a very good point.

It could be something blocking 1 of the contact pins on either the IEM or the charge case. A tiny speck of glue, a blob of paint, a chip of plastic, etc.


----------



## Bartig

milkybrkid said:


> Just seen this linked over at r/headphones, too complicated for me but someone here might appreciate it,
> 
> *Audio over Bluetooth: most detailed information about profiles, codecs, and devices :-*
> 
> https://habr.com/en/post/456182/


I love that tl;dr. Going to refer to this a lot.


----------



## actorlife

d3myz said:


> From what i've read the E12 dont' sound as good as the X12, is that correct? why are they more expensive?


They both suck just don't believe the hype. X12 was bad and then one side stopped working. Sent it back to the seller and got a refund. E12 owners had the same lousy SQ.


----------



## actorlife

CrusaderIce said:


> So the anbes 359 are currently unavailable on amazon, hoping for a possible updated version soon?


They sold out quickly because they were $29. I'm sure a new batch will be there in a week or so.


----------



## rhsauer

hifi80sman said:


> Does the Syllable S101 support aptX?



It does have aptX.  I can confirm that by connecting to my iMac via aptX.


----------



## FYLegend (Jun 18, 2019)

Picked up Anbes 359 on sale for 40$ CAD, now waiting...

Has anyone tried YTOM T1? It claims to have AptX and also charges via Type C...
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33034113339.html


----------



## Iron-Buddha

So I just got Sabbat E12 and well, I'm jumping on the bandwagon.   I'm not saying they are better than the Beoplay E8, but I am saying they are better than the two E8's I have.   My E8's exhibited severe channel imbalance where the left earbud had less volume and significantly less bass.   I halfway suspect my big head was too thick and was blocking the near field magnetic transmission.   Sound signature is almost irrelevant when the stereo imaging is completely off and unstable.  The E12's don't have an ambient mode, but the E8's ambient mode didn't work well enough to have a conversation with them on anyways.  I have to take the E8's out to talk to people, which is what got them put through the wash.   

The E12's aren't super amazing...but given that no TW is going to last more than a few years, either from battery issues or just me dropping them/drowning them/losing them, etc., the E12's are pretty compelling as a semi-disposable unit.    At this stage of the game, I'm not convinced paying more gets you more.   I will wait and see if the Nuarl's are a significant upgrade (and become available in Canada).


----------



## chinmie

haven't whipped out my earin m2 for some time, because after the last update of my phone a few months ago the connection is a bit problematic, with a few but quite often dropouts on one of the unit. now I'm testing it with AAC, haven't experience a dropout yet... fingers crossed

i also buying this, because I'm interested on the small case size and the form of the earpiece, also because it has volume control similar to the sabbat. from the reviews it seems to have a balanced type of sound

https://m.aliexpress.com/item/33007594857.html

i also purchased the new TRN BT20S for my DM6


----------



## zozito

RobinFood said:


> Stupid question, but is there tape over the charging pins somwhere? Someone had charging issues previously and found clear tape over the pins.


I didn't appreciate something like that...but I'll take a look carefully. Thanks, friend.


----------



## RobinFood

chinmie said:


> haven't whipped out my earin m2 for some time, because after the last update of my phone a few months ago the connection is a bit problematic, with a few but quite often dropouts on one of the unit. now I'm testing it with AAC, haven't experience a dropout yet... fingers crossed
> 
> i also buying this, because I'm interested on the small case size and the form of the earpiece, also because it has volume control similar to the sabbat. from the reviews it seems to have a balanced type of sound
> 
> ...



Oh wow, BT20S is out and it has a qcc3020 supporting aptx for 50$
Looks like it's game over for the Fostex. I almost want to sell all my other TW sets and just grab 2 pairs, one for buds and one for isolating in-ears.


----------



## chinmie

RobinFood said:


> Oh wow, BT20S is out and it has a qcc3020 supporting aptx for 50$
> Looks like it's game over for the Fostex. I almost want to sell all my other TW sets and just grab 2 pairs, one for buds and one for isolating in-ears.



yup, especially that the fostex extension cable alone worth more than the BT20S.

following inputs from @Slater , i purchase two magnet adapter to make charging the BT20 easier, and also made a sort of "charging case" by adding a powerbank with it. usually if I'm only going out for a day, i just carry the BT20 units alone with the smaller carbon case.


----------



## Soreniglio

If anyone's Russian here, there's a review for the former model of Xpods by Wavefun, these : https://it.aliexpress.com/item/3303...ail.1000016.1.26433364pWCQH5&isOrigTitle=true

I'm quite interested in these, but I don't really know how they sound like, or if the "Wavefun" brand is good or not, that's why I was looking for reviews of their older models. I found many, but all are in Russian, this is the longest one I found, if anyone's interested in them, or wants to make me happy by telling me what the reviewer says, here's the link:


----------



## webvan

I wonder if the BT20s will have less HISS than the TRN BT3/BT10/BT20 for use the TRN V80 !


----------



## Slater

chinmie said:


> yup, especially that the fostex extension cable alone worth more than the BT20S.
> 
> following inputs from @Slater , i purchase two magnet adapter to make charging the BT20 easier, and also made a sort of "charging case" by adding a powerbank with it. usually if I'm only going out for a day, i just carry the BT20 units alone with the smaller carbon case.



Charging setup looks real nice!

I too use the small carbon case. They fit well in there, and it’s the smallest case I found that still fits everything.


----------



## Slater

webvan said:


> I wonder if the BT20s will have less HISS than the TRN BT3/BT10/BT20 for use the TRN V80 !



I doubt it. The issue is with the V80, not the other way around.


----------



## vstolpner

Slater said:


> I doubt it. The issue is with the V80, not the other way around.



Darn, that's a shame


----------



## actorlife

Same type of case like the 359. $37: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07KFLM1KJ/ref=cm_sw_r_sms_apa_i_hSKcDbM0H9Z90

Yoinks. Bought these because of the cheap price, 6hr battery, vol control and mostly cause of the Graphene drivers. Will return if I don't like em:
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07STZX8BM/ref=cm_sw_r_sms_apa_i_q2KcDbHE7PFVP


----------



## vstolpner

actorlife said:


> Yoinks. Bought these because of the cheap price, 6hr battery, vol control and mostly cause of the Graphene drivers. Will return if I don't like em:
> https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07STZX8BM/ref=cm_sw_r_sms_apa_i_q2KcDbHE7PFVP



Considering they can't tell apart the sound board from the rear chamber in their marketing material.... Lol


----------



## actorlife

vstolpner said:


> Considering they can't tell apart the sound board from the rear chamber in their marketing material.... Lol


Eh yep that's why I said will return if sound is sh-crap.


----------



## AtariPrime

A new contender on the market. 

Blaupunkt BTW-01

Not sure if these are available in the US or just overseas.

IPX5

6 hr battery
Bluetooth 5.0
reasonably small
Promises good bass (unknown if delivers)

https://www.blaupunkt.com/in/nc/products/personal-audio/true-wireless/products/single/18852/


----------



## aj05hi

Klipsch T5 coming out as well


Bluetooth 5
5mm driver
IPX 4 (sweat resistant)
oval tips
8 hr battery (fast charging case 15 min charge will give 2 hr listening)


----------



## vstolpner

Has anyone tried these yet? I think these are the only hybrid TWS that I've seen that use balanced armature and dynamic driver...

https://www.amazon.com/Bluetooth-Headphones-Sweatproof-Cancelling-Black/dp/B07NVDRLWL/

$40 right now with coupon too...


----------



## vstolpner

aj05hi said:


> Klipsch T5 coming out as well
> 
> 
> Bluetooth 5
> ...



These look interesting! Nice case too!

How much?


----------



## Alphasoixante

vstolpner said:


> How much?



$199.00


----------



## mattpool

Bartig said:


> I haven't shown myself here for a while, still I'd like to give you a brief round-up on my three new favorite true wireless IEM's apart from the QCY QS1 and QS2:
> 
> - *1more E1026BT* is the tws I grab the most. I love its balanced, spacious and sweet sound, which I think is the most neutral you can get under 100 dollar so far.
> 
> ...



@Bartig, does the Tranya T3 support AAC or aptX?


----------



## Slater (Jun 19, 2019)

AtariPrime said:


> A new contender on the market.
> 
> Blaupunkt BTW-01
> 
> Not sure if these are available in the US or just overseas.



Blaupunkt? They made good stuff in the 80s-90s, now they are dead. In fact, they filed for bankruptcy and liquidated years ago.

Times change.


----------



## AtariPrime

The JBL Tune 120 TWS is now available.  Below is a link to JBL's website where it can be purchased.  Haven't found a lot of reviews or pics in ears yet.  One review is available, but the kid is tiny so they look very large, similar to the Bose in size.  Hopefully more pics soon.



 

https://www.jbl.com/wireless-headph...BL TUNE120TWS_color=Black-USA-Current#start=1


----------



## jasonb

So I was having connection stability issues with the Galaxy Buds when used outside with a 1+ 6T. I'm now using a Pixel 3a, and the Bluetooth connection is rock solid.


----------



## hifi80sman

Slater said:


> Blaupunkt? They made good stuff in the 80s-90s, now they are dead. In fact, they filed for bankruptcy and liquidated years ago.
> 
> Times change.


Interesting point.  I've noticed many companies that made names for themselves back in the 80s, resurfacing with mostly re-branded products, kind of like Aiwa.  See below.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aiwa

EARLY HISTORY
The company was founded on June 20, 1951 as *AIKO Denki Sangyo Co., Ltd.*, manufacturing microphones, and changed its name to *Aiwa Co., Ltd.* (アイワ株式会社) in March 10, 1959.[4] Mitsuo Ikejiri served as president until 1969.

The company was a leading manufacturer of audio products, including headphone stereos, minicomponent stereo systems, portable stereo systems, minidisc players, CD and cassette players, and car stereo systems throughout the 1970s, 1980s, and 1990s.[5][6] Nearly 86 percent of company revenues were derived from such audio products. 12 percent came from products such as televisions and VCRs, and the remaining two percent from computer peripherals and other life products...With growing competition throughout the late 1990s, the company slid towards bankruptcy. In March 2001, the company's president, Masayoshi Morimoto, announced the halving of its workforce, following a second consecutive loss-making year.[10]

LATER
In 2015, Dormitus Brands, a Chicago-based brand acquisition company run by Mark Thomann, acquired the trademark right in the U.S. Thomann looked to pair the brand with a company that was innovating in the audio industry, eventually leading to a deal with Hale Devices, Inc., headed by Joe Born. Hale Devices renamed itself into Aiwa. The Aiwa brand was formally relaunched in March 2015, releasing its first product, the _Exos-9_, a wireless Bluetooth speaker.[16]


----------



## Bartig

mattpool said:


> @Bartig, does the Tranya T3 support AAC or aptX?


AAC, no AptX. To be fair, I don't reckon headphones or earphones with that codec are automatically better than ones without. It certainly is more than a label than it is a qualification for sound quality.


----------



## Slater

Bartig said:


> AAC, no AptX. To be fair, I don't reckon headphones or earphones with that codec are automatically better than ones without. It certainly is more than a label than it is a qualification for sound quality.



One interesting thing about these codecs is that when the manufacturer implements it in their product, they can choose from many parameters that ultimately affect the quality of the end result (such as bitrate). So sure, product X may use aptX or AAC, but at a really low bandwidth.

It’s like me telling you a ring has a diamond in it. There’s a huge range of diamond qualities, from perfect/flawless all the way to industrial grade that looks like a piece of dirty rock salt.

So I’m with you, in that just because the codec is used it doesn’t guarantee awesomeness.

Some products are very transparent about the actual implementation specs, such as the ES100. And that’s why people say it sounds so good. But a lot of these products are a black box other than the chip and codec used.


----------



## Slater

.


----------



## actorlife (Jun 19, 2019)

AtariPrime said:


> The JBL Tune 120 TWS is now available.  Below is a link to JBL's website where it can be purchased.  Haven't found a lot of reviews or pics in ears yet.  One review is available, but the kid is tiny so they look very large, similar to the Bose in size.  Hopefully more pics soon.
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.jbl.com/wireless-headphones/JBL+TUNE120TWS.html?cgid=wireless-headphones&dwvar_JBL TUNE120TWS_color=Black-USA-Current#start=1



Dang too big. I have small ears as well. They look as big as those Bose. Battery is the reason for the size. Price I guess is OK compared to Senns, Klipsch, etc. 4.2 is also OK cause it's basically 5.0. I bet they do sound good though. That lady who reviewed them always does good reviews and goes into great detail. She's a musician.


----------



## rambomhtri

Why not buying the best IEM you possibly can, and then buy a Bluetooth 4.2 or 5.0 cable with APTx-HD?

I think you have way more options than trying to find a pair if IEM's that you like that include BT.


----------



## albau

rambomhtri said:


> Why not buying the best IEM you possibly can, and then buy a Bluetooth 4.2 or 5.0 cable with APTx-HD?
> 
> I think you have way more options than trying to find a pair if IEM's that you like that include BT.


Cause the whole point of pure wireless is to have no stinkin' wires?


----------



## chinmie

rambomhtri said:


> Why not buying the best IEM you possibly can, and then buy a Bluetooth 4.2 or 5.0 cable with APTx-HD?
> 
> I think you have way more options than trying to find a pair if IEM's that you like that include BT.



because once you had them, even the slightest cable running on your cheeks and neck would feel annoying 
true, you'll have more options with neckbands or bt dongles like the ES100 like the ability to connect to two devices simultaneously, that's why i still keep them around. but there's also the TRN BT20 and Fostex TM2 now if you want to use your existing iems and have the true wireless feel


----------



## chinmie

actorlife said:


> Dang too big. I have small ears as well. They look as big as those Bose. Battery is the reason for the size. Price I guess is OK compared to Senns, Klipsch, etc. 4.2 is also OK cause it's basically 5.0. I bet they do sound good though. That lady who reviewed them always does good reviews and goes into great detail. She's a musician.



it's rated for 4 hours, that is quite low when considering the size and the drivers they use,especially because others like Mifo can get 7 hours and really much smaller


----------



## actorlife

chinmie said:


> it's rated for 4 hours, that is quite low when considering the size and the drivers they use,especially because others like Mifo can get 7 hours and really much smaller


Dang only 4 hrs. They will be 30 bucks by Christmas.


----------



## rambomhtri

albau said:


> Cause the whole point of pure wireless is to have no stinkin' wires?


I'm sorry, what's the problem about using these:






What harm can that cable do?
That's my daily BT cable (actually, that battery thingy hanging there, rests in the neck, it's not floating as in the image), I use it everywhere, except for sport, hell, I even sleep with that cable. Does not annoy me in any way, it's fantastic. The only problem with cables is when you have a long cable going to your pocket, then the cable can get stuck in the middle way, with your jacket, your smartphone or music device is "slave" of a cable, can't move your head freely... but with that cable of the picture,  tell me exactly what's the worse thing can happen? What can you do with a "pure" wireless that you can't with this one?

I was not only talking about the cables, but also about IEM's. If you want a "pure" wireless headphone, your market reduces to nothing. If you use a cable like in the picture, you will enjoy all the wireless advantages plus your market is GIGANTIC since any IEM of the market will work, you just simply need to buy a compatible BT cable. Also, in your portable case or box you can carry a real cable, so if in the middle of the trip/commuting, the battery dies, you swap the cable in 20 seconds and you're ready to go. That's one big, huge advantage over the "true" wireless IEM's that simply destroys them, in my opinion. Listening to music and suddenly get cut is very, very frustrating, and that will surely happen to you plenty of times if you use those wireless ear pills.


----------



## vstolpner

rambomhtri said:


> I'm sorry, what's the problem about using these:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



It's not that there is anything inherently wrong with that, it's a preference thing. I never liked that cable, as is the case with many others on here. 

Even read the thread title: "Going fully Wireless IEMs. Too soon? Or are we there yet?"

If your preference is different, that's fine, but others have their preference.


----------



## AtariPrime

Might as well go full wired at that point. There are much better options for much better prices.


----------



## nc8000

rambomhtri said:


> I'm sorry, what's the problem about using these:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



The “problem” at least for me is that once you have tried no cable there is no going back (I’m purely talking for out and about on the move, not for stationary home listening). The cable will at some point get caught on something and then pull the iem out. And the true wireless market is huge, not “reduced to nothing” and will just get bigger (and no doubt better) over time. Also the case you carry is much smaller and fits in a pocket where you case with 2 cables needs to go in a bag (I usually dont carry a bag). And I very rarely need to use them longer than the 3, 4, 5 or more hours that the battery last depending on the model.


----------



## chinmie

rambomhtri said:


> I'm sorry, what's the problem about using these:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



here's a scenario:
putting that on, use a balaclava over it, and then putting on a helmet. midway through your ride you want to turn your head sideways, and finding that cable snagging the skin behind your neck.

no problem with that using a TWS 

scenario 2: 
i can watch youtube with my son, each of us using one of the TWS, and we both can still sit half a meter apart.

then i can ask him to fetch me a glass of water, and he can do it while still listening to the youtube video



rambomhtri said:


> Does not annoy me in any way, it's fantastic.



good for you. the thing is, level of annoyance varies from people to people.



rambomhtri said:


> If you use a cable like in the picture, you will enjoy all the wireless advantages plus your market is GIGANTIC since any IEM of the market will work, you just simply need to buy a compatible BT cable.



you do realize there are true wireless solutions for that, don't you?


----------



## Slater (Jun 20, 2019)

chinmie said:


> the thing is, level of annoyance varies from people to people.



This comment is very annoying

Lol j/k



chinmie said:


> you do realize there are true wireless solutions for that, don't you?



That Fostex looks even better than the other photos I saw. In that side view I get a better idea of how thin it is. So tempting!


----------



## BCool

Are there any sets that can be worn one at a time and in either ear? Sound quality doesn't need to be amazing, I work in an office and mainly stream online radio


----------



## Slater

BCool said:


> Are there any sets that can be worn one at a time and in either ear? Sound quality doesn't need to be amazing, I work in an office and mainly stream online radio



QCY T1C, QS1, and T2C can do that.


----------



## nc8000

BCool said:


> Are there any sets that can be worn one at a time and in either ear? Sound quality doesn't need to be amazing, I work in an office and mainly stream online radio



Earin M2. You can use either bud in either ear


----------



## FYLegend

Any tips where to buy Sabbat E12 in Canada? I'm confused why Gearbest has two listings, one on sale and another more expensive listing that gives the option to chose wireless-charging bin. Looks like someone did try asking about the on-sale one being wireless charging but the seller just said "yes connectivity: Wireless" which seems ambiguous. Amazon has a few grey-market listings (that is, they put some random brand's name in front of Sabbat), but at this point they don't seem to be Amazon-fulfilled so you're not getting an advantage for shipping (it seems to me the budget-fi TWS are really behind in Amazon Canada). I bought the Anbes 359 from Aliexpress but it still hasn't been shipped yet after 3 days. =/


----------



## BCool

Slater said:


> QCY T1C, QS1, and T2C can do that.


@Slater thanks! are there any differences between them or are they basically the same?


----------



## chinmie

Slater said:


> This comment is very annoying
> 
> Lol j/k
> 
> ...



yes, you can also see it here at minute 2:50 when he held it 



i think it's thinner than the BT20, but slightly wider. can't wait to try it hands on next month


----------



## zerolight (Jun 20, 2019)

Just got my Powerbeats Pro today. Never been a fan of Beats, but so far, these are pretty good. I think they are more comfy than my soundsport wireless. Don't expect them to sound like the K10U I used to own, but pretty convenient. Case isn't that big. No bigger than I'd carry the K10U in - smaller probably. They do leak a lot of outside noise in, similar to the Bose, but the upside is you don't get that thump thump bone conduction as you walk.

edit: Too bright. Tricky to get a decent seal. Returning.


----------



## d3myz

rambomhtri said:


> Why not buying the best IEM you possibly can, and then buy a Bluetooth 4.2 or 5.0 cable with APTx-HD?
> 
> I think you have way more options than trying to find a pair if IEM's that you like that include BT.



Have you seen any BT 5.0 cables?, I haven't. I have 4 sets of BT cables, MMCX and 2-pin. Some APTx and Aptx-HD, but only one of them is BT 4.2. and like was mentioned, the point is to have no cables.


----------



## kuebler

Nailzs said:


> I'm a bit surprised no one has talked about this yet.
> https://www.nuraphone.com/products/nuraloop?utm_source=nura&utm_campaign=5d025cbfd7-NuraLoop|PreLaunch|Owners&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_81a5aaf4f1-5d025cbfd7-229564873&goal=0_81a5aaf4f1-5d025cbfd7-229564873&mc_cid=5d025cbfd7&mc_eid=6ff73af2e0
> 
> *Nura Personalised Sound*



I'm also surprised, and a bit disappointed about that.

With my slight (age-)impaired hearing loss at high frequencies I made promising experiences with sound/hearing personalization technology like the Mimi app on my iPhone. As a test I then bought a Nuraphone full size headphone, but didn't like that (subjective clumsiness) and returned it.

Now I'm very interested in trying the Nuraloop, once they appear in autumn. I didn't make a prerelease order, because I don't want to be bound, and dealers like Amazon sure will quickly offer convenient discounts and rights to return.

But I would be pleased if one of you premium HeadFiers  could already now open a thread about the coming Nuraloops, to which I could subscribe (I myself being an absolute HeadFi-nobody don't want to do that).

Of course initially not much traffic would happen, but we would have a standard place of collecting the - initially sparse - news and insights.

Please give it a thought...


----------



## Slater

BCool said:


> @Slater thanks! are there any differences between them or are they basically the same?



The buds are all the exactly same. The only difference is the charge case is different with the T2C. It has a lid and also a higher capacity battery.


----------



## AtariPrime

The Klipsch T5 is now available.  Was released a couple of days ago.  $199.00

USB-C
IPX4 - 'sweat and waterproof'
8 hr battery w/ 24 in case
Dynamic Driver - 5mm
AptX and AAC


Reviews are few so far, but there is one below (kid is a bit annonying in it though).

The promotion with the lighter is kind of silly, but they are going for a 1980s rocker vibe, so why not.

https://www.klipsch.com/products/t5-true-wireless-earphones


----------



## hifi80sman

kuebler said:


> I'm also surprised, and a bit disappointed about that.
> 
> With my slight (age-)impaired hearing loss at high frequencies I made promising experiences with sound/hearing personalization technology like the Mimi app on my iPhone. As a test I then bought a Nuraphone full size headphone, but didn't like that (subjective clumsiness) and returned it.
> 
> ...


Those do look interesting, but they still have a wire connecting them, unfortunately.  Once you go no wire, brother, it's like the sun coming through the clouds.


----------



## nc8000

hifi80sman said:


> Those do look interesting, but they still have a wire connecting them, unfortunately.  Once you go no wire, brother, it's like the sun coming through the clouds.



Yep I could not go back to a wired in ear for on the go use after nearly 2 years with true wireless


----------



## kuebler (Jun 20, 2019)

hifi80sman said:


> Those do look interesting, but they still have a wire connecting them, unfortunately.  Once you go no wire, brother, it's like the sun coming through the clouds.


I can't see why not having a connecting wire (only between the 2 in-ears) should be as important as having a personalized frequency response correcting e.g. age- or malady-induced impairments.


----------



## clerkpalmer

AtariPrime said:


> The Klipsch T5 is now available.  Was released a couple of days ago.  $199.00
> 
> USB-C
> IPX4 - 'sweat and waterproof'
> ...




Not shipping until mid to late July.


----------



## Slater

hifi80sman said:


> Those do look interesting, but they still have a wire connecting them, unfortunately.  Once you go no wire, brother, it's like the sun coming through the clouds.



I do agree with this.

Convenience is very addicting.

Google bs encyclopedias, Uber vs taxis, wireless phone charging, power lock and windows in cars, air conditioning, dishwasher, power lawn mower, streaming movies, etc.


----------



## actorlife (Jun 20, 2019)

FYLegend said:


> Any tips where to buy Sabbat E12 in Canada? I'm confused why Gearbest has two listings, one on sale and another more expensive listing that gives the option to chose wireless-charging bin. Looks like someone did try asking about the on-sale one being wireless charging but the seller just said "yes connectivity: Wireless" which seems ambiguous. Amazon has a few grey-market listings (that is, they put some random brand's name in front of Sabbat), but at this point they don't seem to be Amazon-fulfilled so you're not getting an advantage for shipping (it seems to me the budget-fi TWS are really behind in Amazon Canada). I bought the Anbes 359 from Aliexpress but it still hasn't been shipped yet after 3 days. =/


Please do not get the Sabbat period. You will be highly disappointed with any pair. If you look a couple pages back I recommended a couple of neutral earphones.

Edit.
These are neutral(I own both. Both are real good) :
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07MYZK9NT/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o08_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
or
https://www.amazon.com/【Upgraded-Cancelling-HonShoop-Lightweight-Headphones/dp/B07L9PJJX1/ref=sr_1_8?keywords=wireless+graphene&qid=1560868879&s=gateway&sr=8-8

Never heard these but they have graphene drivers which is always a good bet:
https://www.amazon.com/PeohZarr-Wir...graphene+wireless+ear,electronics,152&sr=1-17
or
https://www.amazon.com/Wireless-Ear...=graphene+wireless+ear,electronics,152&sr=1-9
and these 19 bucks. whoa.(I just bought these will report back when I get them)
https://www.amazon.com/Xawy-Bluetoo...graphene+wireless+ear,electronics,152&sr=1-18


----------



## hifi80sman

Slater said:


> I do agree with this.
> 
> Convenience is very addicting.
> 
> Google bs encyclopedias, Uber vs taxis, wireless phone charging, power lock and windows in cars, air conditioning, dishwasher, power lawn mower, streaming movies, etc.


Ahh, those were the days.


We've come a long way.


----------



## AtariPrime

actorlife said:


> Please do not get the Sabbat period. You will be highly disappointed with any pair. If you look a couple pages back I recommended a couple of neutral earphones.



I will agree that he should not get the Sabbat, but not for the reasons stated.  They are cheap Chi-fi.  Music was never meant to be listened to with a 'neutral' sound signature.  It is only recorded that way so that it can be pumped through a wide range of audio devices and still have a moderately similar sound that doesn't distort.  If you want proof that music was never intended to be listened to that way, go to a concert, any concert and you will find that almost always the artist is pumping up the bass throughout the performance.  The mids get pumped up quite often too.  This is how the artist intended their music to be heard.  As a result, a neutral signature is a lie.  If that's what you prefer, ok, but it has nothing to do with how the music was intended to be heard.


----------



## AtariPrime

hifi80sman said:


> Ahh, those were the days.
> 
> 
> We've come a long way.




Well when you put it this way...the Sennheisers look tiny.


----------



## OnTheRoad (Jun 20, 2019)

vstolpner said:


> Not sure how well these would work for podcasts as I don't listen to those. But I've been using Anbes 359 recently and have been very happy with them. Last I saw they were about $40 USD less 30% coupon on Amazon.com, so well within your budget.
> 
> Have tried SoundPeats TrueFree and they're close to the Anbes but I feel the Anbes are better.
> 
> Alternatively, if you already have a pair of IEM's with a removable cable then you should really take a look at the TRN BT20.



Really appreciate these suggestions. : )

I use KZ Ate ED3 for music currently and JVC Marshmallow for anything related to spoken word media. I find I get tired listening to audiobooks on the KZ Ates after 30 - 40 minutes. (The voice sounds to deep with these.) They aren't a problem for music in that regard. 



hifi80sman said:


> For the price, can't really beat the Anbes 359 for music.  However, they are bassy, so may not be the best for narrators with deep voices.  I also have these, which I'd probably recommend for your uses, especially since it sounds like music is secondary.  I find the Comexion comfortable with a pleasant sound profile.  Touch controls are also pretty responsive as well.



Thanks so much for the suggestions and help. I would prefer something with not too much bass for the reason you specified. And I'll need to find something on AliExpress or from a store that ships to Europe. Can't get the Comexion on Amazon.com.



d3myz said:


> I pretty much exclusively use my TWS' for audiobooks. I really like the QCY T1 Pro, crisp treble and mid, good volume. QCY T1 are almost as good, but they don't quite sparkle as much and the volume isnt' nearly as loud, but fine for most situations. I also use the anbes 359, and the Tiso i4 bot have less treble, more mid and bass. the anbes are the loudest of the bunch. The T1 pros are my fav and they are touch control, but no volume control.



Many thanks for reply and suggestions! May I ask which TWS' you use specifically for audiobooks? It looks like there a few models available. Which do you like?


----------



## Slater

hifi80sman said:


> Ahh, those were the days.
> 
> 
> We've come a long way.




I remember that commercial haha


----------



## Caipirina (Jun 20, 2019)

This is what I get for having all my orders collected at my 'maildrop' and then finally arrive and being overwhelmed by 10+ new TWE  

So far I only did quick checks if they are all working (only the Sabbat E12 have a faulty right bud, seller wants a video to prove this and then will offer 'a solution')

But here my very quick take-aways of some of them, all out of the box with tips as they came.

-Syllable S101 ... those I actually like the most so far and did 2 very successful +10K runs with them ... sound, fit, looks. Only once the left bud would totally lose connection and then I had to randomly press some buttons and they came back

- QCY T1 ... I love those as I can totally and securely jam them all the way up my ear canal  And they sound nice

- Havit G1 ... they remind me a LOT of my Jabras which died too soon ... the rubbery texture, that knobbly form factor ... I need to try them next on a run ... they even have a similar Bassy-McBassFace 'fun' sound as the Jabras ... need to do tip rolling to get perfect seal, for strange reasons I got the right side done with out of the box tip (my right ear canal is usually the problem child) but left has not worked out yet ...
Kuddos to the unique case design. But what I don't like is that the charging points on the buds are quite visible (and what about rain?)

 

-Mifo 05 BA version ... not impressed ... that case is super heavy .. sound is .. eh ... will give it some more time. They arrived with the tips bent all out of shape



-redmi airdots ... were a pain to pair, found a YT video to help reset and then they would finally pair with each other

-Anbes 359 ... i still feel pretty neutral about them ... also, will need more time

-whizzer TP1 ... those feel HUGE .. but sound nice ... not super impressed yet, but giving it some time




-XG17 for 8.52$ ... if you really can't afford more than 10$, those will do .. or if you lose TWE all the time ... they actually work, they have a bit of a background noise (sometimes, not always)... they do not sound like total rubbish ... maybe good present for kids ... pairing was easy



- some more at or sub 20$ buds: tiso i4, Capsule Anomoibuds, Haylou GT1  .. they all do a pretty decent job for this price range ... The Haylou (beautiful tiny case, just trying them again as I type, liking the sound)  had similar pairing issues as the redmi airdots, eventually i figured it out



- 1more stylish ... quite liking them, they way they fit, but i think i still have to play with the different fittings ... voice is CHinese and I have not figured out yet how to change ... or I just keep it 

- My Blitzwolf FYE5 have been in custody @customs since 5/27 .. let's see if they ever get released, by now I fear they dropped off some shelf in the trash 

Funny thing is that somehow I am having way too much fun with a certain white stemmed replica bud for 25$, which I got for 'science' purposes .. to compare, to see what the fuzz is about ... and well, it appears to be a huge gamble if one really ends up getting the model that has been advertized, or if the promised features are working ... reading the comments makes it seem like a casino rolled into a mine field enshrouded in an enigma, in other words, just stay away 

But the fact that something at that pricepoint comes that close and in the sound department possible even exceeds the original fruit (to be fair, I only got to sample the originals in-store with ample background noise, but was thoroughly not impressed by what I would consider a 'cheap earbud sound') is mind boggling ...

Did I get too many TWE? Yes, but hey, learning curve .. and I only get to do this once a year.

Did I list ALL that I have ordered in the review? Possibly?  There might still be some on the way? No, not really, as far as I know only the freebie i7s I 'won' for 0.01cents are on their way, with a tracking number that is not recognized ... shady business that... oh, and that cheapo T8 TWS that looks like the Lezii x12 still has to pop up.

Now I really need to stop with this madness and wait for the Bose 700 ANC TWS to drop .. and whatever 'cheap' stuff then pops up with that new qualcom chip ...

Until then I will each and every TWS set some time to play with ... I might sell some off to friends, so far I don't feel any of them is total trash ... I feel a bit miffed about the mixed back of emotions with the more expensive pairs I got ... the Mifo fail to impress, the Sabbat do not work, the Whizzer are HUGE !!! ...

If anyone wants to follow a similar rabbithole, stay with the 20$ buds  Or get a different hobby ..


----------



## FYLegend

Eh, what about Earfun Free then?


----------



## d3myz

OnTheRoad said:


> Really appreciate these suggestions. : )
> 
> I use KZ Ate ED3 for music currently and JVC Marshmallow for anything related to spoken word media. I find I get tired listening to audiobooks on the KZ Ates after 30 - 40 minutes. (The voice sounds to deep with these.) They aren't a problem for music in that regard.
> 
> ...


My fav. are the QCY T1-Pro, then the T1 followed by the Anbes 359.


----------



## Nocturnal310

the convenience of true wireless is truly a revelation for me.

the biggest advantage being how I talk on the phone now. I can go around my day doing things indoor and outdoor while talking to people on phone endlessly and tap for talk-through instead of pulling them out each time as thats super annoying with in-earphones.
another great benefit is that i can listen to music from both phone and laptop and audio switches automatically.

only small problem i have noticed is since you cant hang them around neck like semi-wireless earphones, i have to ensure i put them in case each time i am done using them and few times they almost slipped out of my hands as some ear wax or sweat can make them slippery.

i think in terms of sound quality even sennheiser momentums didnt feel close to hifi wired in-ear monitors but everyday convenience means i spend more time with true wireless earphones.


----------



## vstolpner

@Caipirina 
How do the 1more stylish compare to Anbes 359?

Also, give the mifo's a chance, let them burn in. BA's have a different sound signature but they're great if you're happy without too much base


----------



## vstolpner

d3myz said:


> My fav. are the QCY T1-Pro, then the T1 followed by the Anbes 359.



How are the T1 pro's better than 359? Curious if it's with the upgrade


----------



## Nocturnal310

clerkpalmer said:


> It absolutely is that much better. Whether it’s worth 2x the cost is up to you but there is no comparison sq wise. Elites are average at best.


i happened to demo the sennheiser momentums recently.

i think they lack hi fidelity sound as level of detail was same as jabra elites.

however, they must have a really big driver as sound produced was much more alive and punchy...thats the biggest difference i noticed.

the songs where i found some lack of accuracy in sound being produced was common in both jabra elites and momentums as I feel bluetooth protocol was still a limiting factor in full details being accurately produced.

thats why i feel momentums are definitely not worth $300 especially with battery drain issues, lack of multiple audio sources being connected at same time etc. you are mainly paying for sennheiser branding as sennheiser has been spending a lot over the past 5-6 years of marketing to mainstream consumer market.


----------



## clerkpalmer

Ok guys, does anyone think the foster will outperform the trn 20 in a meaningful way? I’ve asked this before but I’m ready to take the plunge. What iem do I want to pair with it? Give me fun sounding and a bit warm. Also needs to be durable enough to use in the gym. Send me your recommendations. Thanks!


----------



## clerkpalmer

Nocturnal310 said:


> i happened to demo the sennheiser momentums recently.
> 
> i think they lack hi fidelity sound as level of detail was same as jabra elites.
> 
> ...


 I have all but given up using my mtw. The battery drain just sucks period. I’ve been meaning to call them and demand a refund or credit or something. Just don’t have the energy. The pb pro are my new favorites. Slightly worse sq but they are always available to pair and work. Haven’t charged them in 2 weeks and still going.


----------



## Soreniglio

Caipirina said:


> cut



I'll be waiting for some more details about the Whizzer TP1


----------



## FYLegend

AtariPrime said:


> I will agree that he should not get the Sabbat, but not for the reasons stated.  They are cheap Chi-fi.  Music was never meant to be listened to with a 'neutral' sound signature.  It is only recorded that way so that it can be pumped through a wide range of audio devices and still have a moderately similar sound that doesn't distort.  If you want proof that music was never intended to be listened to that way, go to a concert, any concert and you will find that almost always the artist is pumping up the bass throughout the performance.  The mids get pumped up quite often too.  This is how the artist intended their music to be heard.  As a result, a neutral signature is a lie.  If that's what you prefer, ok, but it has nothing to do with how the music was intended to be heard.


But exactly what's wrong with the Sabbat? I've seen too many up and down impressions of it.


----------



## d3myz

vstolpner said:


> How are the T1 pro's better than 359? Curious if it's with the upgrade


I'm not sure what upgrade you are referring to, but mine are BT 5.0. I wouldn't really consider them better overall sound quality wise. They have much less bass, but cleaner and more accurate treble and midrange. Some might say they sound a little thin, because of the way they are EQ'd but i really enjoy them especially for Audiobooks. The volume is better than the T1's but the Anbes volume is way louder. I also feel like the soundstage on the Pro's is a bit wider. I don't remember the specs but the battery like is 3-4 hours on the pro and the case has a 700mah battery. They are touch instead of click which I definitely prefer. Hope that helps.


----------



## vstolpner

d3myz said:


> I'm not sure what upgrade you are referring to, but mine are BT 5.0. I wouldn't really consider them better overall sound quality wise. They have much less bass, but cleaner and more accurate treble and midrange. Some might say they sound a little thin, because of the way they are EQ'd but i really enjoy them especially for Audiobooks. The volume is better than the T1's but the Anbes volume is way louder. I also feel like the soundstage on the Pro's is a bit wider. I don't remember the specs but the battery like is 3-4 hours on the pro and the case has a 700mah battery. They are touch instead of click which I definitely prefer. Hope that helps.



I guess upgrade was relatively speaking.... But yeah that helps, thanks!

I'm getting Astrotec S80's this weekend too.... Curious to see how the beryllium drivers will impact sound....


----------



## rhsauer

zerolight said:


> Just got my Powerbeats Pro today. Never been a fan of Beats, but so far, these are pretty good. I think they are more comfy than my soundsport wireless. Don't expect them to sound like the K10U I used to own, but pretty convenient. Case isn't that big. No bigger than I'd carry the K10U in - smaller probably. They do leak a lot of outside noise in, similar to the Bose, but the upside is you don't get that thump thump bone conduction as you walk.
> 
> edit: Too bright. Tricky to get a decent seal. Returning.



I also found them too bright and (not unrelatedly) impossible to get a good seal with.  They just didn’t work for NYC subways — not enough isolation.  It was very disappointing, because the Class 1 range and H1 features were all very nice.


----------



## rhsauer

Caipirina said:


> This is what I get for having all my orders collected at my 'maildrop' and then finally arrive and being overwhelmed by 10+ new TWE
> 
> So far I only did quick checks if they are all working (only the Sabbat E12 have a faulty right bud, seller wants a video to prove this and then will offer 'a solution')
> 
> ...



Glad you’re liking the Syllable S101s.  I’m still loving mine.


----------



## AtariPrime

AtariPrime said:


> The Klipsch T5 is now available.  Was released a couple of days ago.  $199.00
> 
> USB-C
> IPX4 - 'sweat and waterproof'
> ...




It looks like lots of them were sent out for review.  Below is another review that popped up from Digital Trends.

https://www.digitaltrends.com/apple/klipsch-t5-true-wireless-vs-apple-airpods/


----------



## hifi80sman

vstolpner said:


> I guess upgrade was relatively speaking.... But yeah that helps, thanks!
> 
> I'm getting Astrotec S80's this weekend too.... Curious to see how the beryllium drivers will impact sound....


Looking forward to your impressions.


----------



## hifi80sman

FYLegend said:


> But exactly what's wrong with the Sabbat? I've seen too many up and down impressions of it.


I like the Sabbat E12.  Fun sub-bass, slight mid recess, but not too much, and rolled off a bit, yet not too dull.  It's basically consumer-friendly tuning with some added bass kick.  Time and a place.  I'm not a 1 signature kinda guy.  For example, yesterday at the gym, I was rocking the Sabbat, but when I got home and was maxin' & relaxin' in front of the computer, I was rolling with the Astrotec S80.


----------



## FYLegend

I just bought Oluv's Earfun Free, not sure when they will ship though. Was a bit reluctant over the fact it's only SBC but people sayit still sounds good and I plan to use them with my computer anyways. Still no news on my Anbes, shoulda picked another seller.... 

The Sabbat E12 seemed promising but theres the uncertainty whether sellers like Gearbest or Gearvita carry the version with wireless charging or not.

I was considering buying S60 BT5.0 but they sold out and there is talk of yet another revision soon... The BT4.2 barely lasts me 3 hours and I feel like the overall battery life is draining down overall. Sometimes I forget to ensure they are snapped into the pins and they dont end up charged....


----------



## Caipirina

Caipirina said:


> So far I only did quick checks if they are all working (only the Sabbat E12 have a faulty right bud, seller wants a video to prove this and then will offer 'a solution')



Yeah, got those e12 to work and oh boy! What a bone shaking bass! This is, well, I guess it can be too overwhelming for some ... but thus far I only used it on some ambient / OST music (title track of the Expanse i.e.) and those bass bottom harmonies come rumbling across fabulously !!! Have not even tried thumping bass music ...

Now I just have to see if this is a recurring problem that the right bud does not charge properly ...  need to reposition like 20 times before I get the charging light and then NOBODY BREATH! as the smallest movement will turn that light off again ... 


 

happy that  wireless charging case seems to be working as well. This is pretty nifty (I am new to wireless charging, other than my apple watch)


----------



## chinmie

hifi80sman said:


> I like the Sabbat E12.  Fun sub-bass, slight mid recess, but not too much, and rolled off a bit, yet not too dull.  It's basically consumer-friendly tuning with some added bass kick.  Time and a place.  I'm not a 1 signature kinda guy.  For example, yesterday at the gym, I was rocking the Sabbat, but when I got home and was maxin' & relaxin' in front of the computer, I was rolling with the Astrotec S80.



what's the battery life on the astro s80?


----------



## chinmie

Caipirina said:


> This is what I get for having all my orders collected at my 'maildrop' and then finally arrive and being overwhelmed by 10+ new TWE
> 
> So far I only did quick checks if they are all working (only the Sabbat E12 have a faulty right bud, seller wants a video to prove this and then will offer 'a solution')
> 
> ...



how do the 1more, syllable, and the T1 compares sound quality - wise?


----------



## Slater

Nocturnal310 said:


> only small problem i have noticed is since you cant hang them around neck like semi-wireless earphones, i have to ensure i put them in case each time i am done using them and few times they almost slipped out of my hands as some ear wax or sweat can make them slippery.



Yes, this is a definite con of TW.

I was cycling a century ride a few weeks ago, and about halfway through my ride sweat and/or earwax caused one IEM to work it’s way loose and it fell out of my ear.

Luckily it didn’t get damaged, but it was stressful having to turn around and spend time looking for it (the whole time worrying if it was broke or lost).


----------



## Slater (Jun 20, 2019)

clerkpalmer said:


> Ok guys, does anyone think the foster will outperform the trn 20 in a meaningful way? I’ve asked this before but I’m ready to take the plunge. What iem do I want to pair with it? Give me fun sounding and a bit warm. Also needs to be durable enough to use in the gym. Send me your recommendations. Thanks!



Well, I think you’re blazing the trail in that one, as lots of people have the BT20 and no one has the Fostex. So honestly, YOU are probably gonna be answering more questions about the Fostex than you’re gonna be asking 

My advice would be to demo them in person if possible, or at least make sure you can return the Fostex if you don’t like them.

As far as what mmcx IEM to pair them with, that is kind of a loaded question because there’s thousands of IEMs you could go with and it all depends on your sonic preferences, ear anatomy, etc. My advice would be to start with the ones that come with the Fostex. For $299 I’m willing to bet they’re going to sound good and not like dollar store headphones. Because if you like the included ones, then you’re done. It’s only if you hate the included ones that you start worrying about what other IEMs to pair them with.


----------



## nc8000

AtariPrime said:


> It looks like lots of them were sent out for review.  Below is another review that popped up from Digital Trends.
> 
> https://www.digitaltrends.com/apple/klipsch-t5-true-wireless-vs-apple-airpods/



And just like the new Cambridge Audio offering the Klipsch don’t seem to have ambient mode


----------



## Technocow

actorlife said:


> Yoinks. Bought these because of the cheap price, 6hr battery, vol control and mostly cause of the Graphene drivers. Will return if I don't like em:
> https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07STZX8BM/ref=cm_sw_r_sms_apa_i_q2KcDbHE7PFVP



I bought those the other day from the exact amazon listing. What I received were the A6 Airtwins.


----------



## simon740

Hello,

what about this:
https://www.ebay.de/itm/153336314648

regards,
Simon


----------



## chinmie

simon740 said:


> Hello,
> 
> what about this:
> https://www.ebay.de/itm/153336314648
> ...



good sounding. but the battery is a lowly 3 hours tops compared to today's 5 hours upward standard


----------



## simon740 (Jun 21, 2019)

chinmie said:


> good sounding. but the battery is a lowly 3 hours tops compared to today's 5 hours upward standard



Thank you.

Im looking somethink for gym and run...
like this...
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32966285041.html?spm=2114.search0104.3.1.264836bb8SMZsc&ws_ab_test=searchweb0_0,searchweb201602_6_10065_10068_319_10059_10884_317_10887_10696_321_322_10084_453_10083_454_10103_10618_10304_10307_10820_10301_10821_537_536,searchweb201603_52,ppcSwitch_0&algo_expid=7e91117c-9164-4e6a-9bf0-6b9f9f39396b-0&algo_pvid=7e91117c-9164-4e6a-9bf0-6b9f9f39396b&transAbTest=ae803_3
or
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33002077239.html?spm=2114.search0104.3.17.14fd3781l7biOJ&ws_ab_test=searchweb0_0,searchweb201602_6_10065_10068_319_10059_10884_317_10887_10696_321_322_10084_453_10083_454_10103_10618_10304_10307_10820_10301_10821_537_536,searchweb201603_52,ppcSwitch_0&algo_expid=1be5924d-ec2f-4622-b705-9f2ee7d40fba-2&algo_pvid=1be5924d-ec2f-4622-b705-9f2ee7d40fba&transAbTest=ae803_3
or
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32957333714.html?spm=a2g0o.cart.0.0.a3113c00uDa9Dg


----------



## sanakimpro

Just wrote my review on the Sennheiser Momentum True Wireless here. Feel free to take a read.

https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/sennheiser-momentum-true-wireless.23306/reviews


----------



## chinmie

simon740 said:


> Thank you.
> 
> Im looking somethink for gym and run...
> like this...
> ...



never tried the Anbes, but folks here says good things about them. 

i have the sabbat x12 and recommend them if you like open back design and airy presentation, also the bass is not too much with the x12, but bass notes and details are good. 

the E12, well, it is a good unit, but the tuning is too bass heavy for me. but many also find them appealing


----------



## Caipirina

chinmie said:


> how do the 1more, syllable, and the T1 compares sound quality - wise?



Will keep that happy threesome comparison in mind when I get to closer listening ... but judging by my first impressions, I find the Syllable fuller, richer in sound. The T1 get extra points for noise isolation, as they somehow fit very nicely with my wonky ear canals!


----------



## chinmie

Caipirina said:


> Will keep that happy threesome comparison in mind when I get to closer listening ... but judging by my first impressions, I find the Syllable fuller, richer in sound. The T1 get extra points for noise isolation, as they somehow fit very nicely with my wonky ear canals!



I'll be waiting for your review, but take your time and enjoy them first, no rush


----------



## hifi80sman

chinmie said:


> what's the battery life on the astro s80?


Honestly, not sure, but never got a low battery warning.  Let's just say, I wear them in the car when I drive to the gym, at the gym (about 2 hours), then in the car back home.  3 hours there or so and no low battery.  I'll keep a better track and use them in the office and see what I get.


----------



## actorlife (Jun 21, 2019)

above amazon ad. Below Ali express ad





Technocow said:


> I bought those the other day from the exact amazon listing. What I received were the A6 Airtwins.


Thanks. So suffice to say not Graphene drivers? Dynamic. Edit added pic. How is the SQ?


----------



## webvan

Received the T8 TWS and they're a disaster !
Connection is very unstable, useless for conversations, no volume control. 
It's like someone bought the design of the X12 and put some crap inside.


----------



## vladzakhar

The sound of TZF X1 BA drivers is so addictive. Very balanced and clear. I love everything about them, except the charging case with no battery level indication and these tiny physical buttons too hard to push. Is it any other TWE with BA drivers and long battery life?

Also, for the real bass heads: Tranya T3 will surpass Sabbat E12 in this department.


----------



## AtariPrime

nc8000 said:


> And just like the new Cambridge Audio offering the Klipsch don’t seem to have ambient mode



There are different camps out there.  Ones that want ambient mode, noise cancelling, mics, etc., and the ones that just want an earbud that has good sound, good battery, a small package, and works.  I will never use ambient mode or noise cancelling, so those features are wasted on me.  A good seal is all I need to get what I want out of earbuds.  I don't want to hear any noise from the outside world, and yes I realize that means I may walk in front of a train.  The price I pay for tuning out the world.


----------



## nc8000

AtariPrime said:


> There are different camps out there.  Ones that want ambient mode, noise cancelling, mics, etc., and the ones that just want an earbud that has good sound, good battery, a small package, and works.  I will never use ambient mode or noise cancelling, so those features are wasted on me.  A good seal is all I need to get what I want out of earbuds.  I don't want to hear any noise from the outside world, and yes I realize that means I may walk in front of a train.  The price I pay for tuning out the world.



Totally understand that. I on the other hand wont buy one without ambient mode as I can't be bothered to take them out to get in touch with the world and I find that the Earin M2 implementation is perfect for me, pause the music and ambient turns on, resume music and ambient turns off. Not interested in anc as long as the passive isolation is good. Also phone call quality is unimportant to me as I at the most make one or two calls a week


----------



## Zune

AtariPrime said:


> There are different camps out there.  Ones that want ambient mode, noise cancelling, mics, etc., and the ones that just want an earbud that has good sound, good battery, a small package, and works.  I will never use ambient mode or noise cancelling, so those features are wasted on me.  A good seal is all I need to get what I want out of earbuds.  I don't want to hear any noise from the outside world, and yes I realize that means I may walk in front of a train.  The price I pay for tuning out the world.



Ditto, all i need is decent sound, a stable connection and decent battery life. They will only be paired to my DAP and i don't need to do or hear anything when i'm listening to my music. I'm new to good quality kit and i'm loving the experience of my first DAP with some decent balanced IEMs but the convenience of bluetooth IEMs sounds very appealing. I've nearly pulled the pin on a set of Anbes 359's a couple of times but there is so much happening in this thread i've held off. It feels like something ground breaking is going to hit the market soon so i'll keep an eye on this thread for it


----------



## nc8000 (Jun 21, 2019)

At least with the current level of technology I will only be using true wireless iem’s while out and about with my phone as source in various mildly to loud noisy environments where to me the finer points of sound are lost to background noise so outright sq is not my highest priority. For “proper” listening I’ll swear by my various wired balanced phones.


----------



## assassin10000

chinmie said:


> i just carry the BT20 units alone with the smaller carbon case.





Slater said:


> I too use the small carbon case. They fit well in there, and it’s the smallest case I found that still fits everything.



I've been using the same carbon case, but also found the small oval size works well too. It is a bit thicker and may work better for some larger size IEM's.


----------



## AtariPrime (Jun 21, 2019)

Zune said:


> Ditto, all i need is decent sound, a stable connection and decent battery life. They will only be paired to my DAP and i don't need to do or hear anything when i'm listening to my music. I'm new to good quality kit and i'm loving the experience of my first DAP with some decent balanced IEMs but the convenience of bluetooth IEMs sounds very appealing. I've nearly pulled the pin on a set of Anbes 359's a couple of times but there is so much happening in this thread i've held off. It feels like something ground breaking is going to hit the market soon so i'll keep an eye on this thread for it



I was very hopeful that something ground breaking was coming.  At the moment though I'm not sure what's going on.  Most of the new models have been a bust or just mediocre.  The 1more is too big, the JBL 120 TWS is too big and has bad battery life, the JBL Reflect Flow has the same dimensions as the Under Armour model they make and will likely sound the same, the Bose 500 is not a true IEM and is very large, the Klipsch T5 is largish but has great battery life but doesn't seem like it will change the world.  I'm not even sure who that leaves with a new product imminent.  The Jabra Elite 65t is aging and is due for a new model.  The Earin M-2 could be fantastic with updated internals aka an M-3.  If bass is the number one consideration the Sabbat E12 and Anbes 359 supposedly have good bass but both are Chi-Fi meaning no name companies that get rebadged a lot with cheap parts and suspect quality.  I am at a loss for what to buy or what is coming soon.


----------



## vladzakhar

When I started to get into TWE, I was looking for big names reputable companies. I thought, the quality should be top notch. But all of them had so many flows. Yep, Senns have very good sound, but the battery drainage is unacceptable. Earin M2 small and comfy, but the battery last only 3 hours. Beoplay E8 loose connection all the time. And so on.

Thanks to this forum, I thought I should try some Chi-Fi stuff. Not talking about $20 cheap earbuds. I bought Sabbat e12. Wow, the sound is awesome and form factor is great, battery life is over 6 hours and it's only $60. When I bought Tranya T3's and they sound even better with great battery life and superb build quality and the cost only $50. And so on.

My point is that, if the company has no name, it doesn't mean they have bad product with cheap parts. The sound and build quality are on pair or even better when big boys. Not all of them, but some. And they always working fast on updating they products, compare to big brands like Bose announcing the new earbuds to be on the market some time in the end of 2019.

This is why I love the forums like this one, where I can find out about quality brands I never heard about and don't spend tons of money for the way overpriced products.


----------



## Slater (Jun 21, 2019)

vladzakhar said:


> When I started to get into TWE, I was looking for big names reputable companies. I thought, the quality should be top notch. But all of them had so many flows. Yep, Senns have very good sound, but the battery drainage is unacceptable. Earin M2 small and comfy, but the battery last only 3 hours. Beoplay E8 loose connection all the time. And so on.
> 
> Thanks to this forum, I thought I should try some Chi-Fi stuff. Not talking about $20 cheap earbuds. I bought Sabbat e12. Wow, the sound is awesome and form factor is great, battery life is over 6 hours and it's only $60. When I bought Tranya T3's and they sound even better with great battery life and superb build quality and the cost only $50. And so on.
> 
> ...



It almost sounds to me like you’re saying that just because something is ‘brand name’ doesn’t guarantee it’s any better than the ‘non brand name’ stuff (and often times is actually _worse_).

You know, like you’re paying a premium for nothing other than the ‘big’ name and logo on the box.


----------



## vladzakhar

Exactly


----------



## hifi80sman

vladzakhar said:


> When I started to get into TWE, I was looking for big names reputable companies. I thought, the quality should be top notch. But all of them had so many flows. Yep, Senns have very good sound, but the battery drainage is unacceptable. Earin M2 small and comfy, but the battery last only 3 hours. Beoplay E8 loose connection all the time. And so on.
> 
> Thanks to this forum, I thought I should try some Chi-Fi stuff. Not talking about $20 cheap earbuds. I bought Sabbat e12. Wow, the sound is awesome and form factor is great, battery life is over 6 hours and it's only $60. When I bought Tranya T3's and they sound even better with great battery life and superb build quality and the cost only $50. And so on.
> 
> ...


Totally agree.  Brand image/reputation is something marketing folks build up, which in turn, builds up their bank accounts.  It's not a bad thing per se, however, many times a company that has an established brand may begin to cut corners OR rest on their laurels and fail to innovate.  Chi-Fi has almost zero marketing costs and doesn't need inflated margins to cover employee salary or health care, so they can offer similar products for far less.  Additionally, most of the tech they use was already developed by someone else, so no R&D costs.  This is likely why most high-end stuff from Sennheiser is produced in Ireland or Germany, so their trade secrets are not stolen.  Same with Sony and manufacturing in Japan for it's high-end stuff.


----------



## vladzakhar

It's interesting that first TWE where from no name brands like Earin, Bragi and bunch of others on crowd funding.


----------



## RobinFood

I always felt like what you really pay for with big brands is an app, tighter quality control and after sales service.

I feel though that big companies just can't move fast enough to stay relevent. Just look at bose revieling their noise cancelling buds at a tbd date. By the time they come out they probably won't be interesting anymore.


----------



## CocaCola15

Well, had to send back the Cambridge Audio Melomania 1s due to some minor issue (some interference) at their suggestion. Bought a new pair. This time, so far, no interference. Very high on the sound and they do need a wee bit of bass EQ for me, but not much. Listening now, to Lucinda Williams (Wrap my Head Around That) and wow, these things sound fantastic. No, no specifics. Just sound great. I kept all the old tips, so now I have two pair of the foamies that come with them. At $129, I think I may be selling off the Senn MTWs. They won't be getting much play time, since the CAs have 9 hours rated battery life per listening session. I have the QCY T1, and just no comparison, but that makes sense considering the price point.


----------



## FYLegend

hifi80sman said:


> Honestly, not sure, but never got a low battery warning.  Let's just say, I wear them in the car when I drive to the gym, at the gym (about 2 hours), then in the car back home.  3 hours there or so and no low battery.  I'll keep a better track and use them in the office and see what I get.


Do they scream "battery low"? It would be nice if all TWS could do away with warnings as they wake me up from sleep.

Sad to say I think my S60 BT4.2 is losing battery life. I barely get the full 3 hours (around Android's estimate of 40% the battery low warning kicks in and repeats every minute or so until completely drained). The charging case also seems to drain fast and charge slowly. To compare, Jabra 65t's 15 hour total time can last me 5-7 days.

I was able to "restore" my Jabra 65t recently. Turns out the volume loss was mainly due to ear wax getting into the pressure vents and affecting driver flex as a result. It's still disappointing because I've not had this issue with IEMs after they get dirty. The volume imbalance and left-bud hiss/clipping is still a problem. Aside these issues and the uffy seal, the utility features and call quality are great.  It also doesnt seem to drain my phone's battery as much .


----------



## hifi80sman (Jun 21, 2019)

FYLegend said:


> Do they scream "battery low"? It would be nice if all TWS could do away with warnings as they wake me up from sleep.
> 
> Sad to say I think my S60 BT4.2 is losing battery life. I barely get the full 3 hours (around Android's estimate of 40% the battery low warning kicks in and repeats every minute or so until completely drained). The charging case also seems to drain fast and charge slowly. To compare, Jabra 65t's 15 hour total time can last me 5-7 days.
> 
> I was able to "restore" my Jabra 65t recently. Turns out the volume loss was mainly due to ear wax getting into the pressure vents and affecting driver flex as a result. It's still disappointing because I've not had this issue with IEMs after they get dirty. The volume imbalance and left-bud hiss/clipping is still a problem. Aside these issues and the uffy seal, the utility features and call quality are great.  It also doesnt seem to drain my phone's battery as much .


The Astrotec S80 is a champ.  Been listening from  about 2 in the afternoon to 7 in the evening (with a few calls in between) and they are at 50% on my iPhone Xs Max.  I listen to these at 4 volume bars on my iPhone.

UPDATE:  I ended up getting about 6 hours 15 mins before the “low battery, please charge” warnings, which seem like about every 15 seconds.  Looks like the 50% estimate was off, but overall, I got 6+ hours at 4 bars.


----------



## Nailzs

kuebler said:


> I'm also surprised, and a bit disappointed about that.
> 
> With my slight (age-)impaired hearing loss at high frequencies I made promising experiences with sound/hearing personalization technology like the Mimi app on my iPhone. As a test I then bought a Nuraphone full size headphone, but didn't like that (subjective clumsiness) and returned it.
> 
> ...



I've not seen any early reviews and the product won't be out until sometime in September so starting a thread at this point might be a bit premature.
I bought in early because my Nuraphones are by far the best sound I've came across in the years I've been messing personal audio.


----------



## Soreniglio

hifi80sman said:


> The Astrotec S80 is a champ.  Been listening from  about 2 in the afternoon to 7 in the evening (with a few calls in between) and they are at 50% on my iPhone Xs Max.  I listen to these at 4 volume bars on my iPhone.
> 
> UPDATE:  I ended up getting about 6 hours 15 mins before the “low battery, please charge” warnings, which seem like about every 15 seconds.  Looks like the 50% estimate was off, but overall, I got 6+ hours at 4 bars.



How are they sound-wise?


----------



## Jonathanangkasa (Jun 22, 2019)

Hi I'm just started to join the forums because of my interest in the TWS. After read and watch here and there and my curiosity I decided to buy both Sabbat E12 and Mifo o5 BA.

When receiveng the package both of them feel premium start from the unboxing.

Case:
The Mifo definitely feel more solid, but for an ease of open and closing the case Sabbat is the winner plus the usb type C.






The IEM's (amateur listener) and I'm using Huawei P30pro and listen using Spotify:

Sabbat E12
-Connect easily and I don't get any problems of connection
-The bass feel so punchy, mid is soso, and the high also good and bright.
-Sometimes the bass is overwhelming in some music

Mifo o5:
-Connect easily no problem
-Imo the button is not as hard to press or find as a lot of people said.
-Bass is enough, but I don't feel the BA driver superior in this tws. Not as bright as I expect and the characteristic of mifo kinda flat. After using the Sabbat I feel the mifo o5 like muffled maybe or is the character is warm.

I haven't tried other eartips that I get, just using the one which came from. I literally don't know which one is better Sabbat or the Mifo.  I have interest in Astrotec S80 do you guys have opinion on that one? And also is the standard mifo with dynamic driver is better than the one with BA driver?


----------



## sfleming

I've tried a couple of the recent chi-fi offerings, but they all shut off after a few minutes in the dry sauna after the workout at the gym. Does anyone have an example of a twe that does not do that, or is there a way to tell in the description of the offering that they will not? 

Thx
-Steve


----------



## TYATYA

No words


----------



## vstolpner

TYATYA said:


> No words



Which one is which?


----------



## vstolpner

sfleming said:


> I've tried a couple of the recent chi-fi offerings, but they all shut off after a few minutes in the dry sauna after the workout at the gym. Does anyone have an example of a twe that does not do that, or is there a way to tell in the description of the offering that they will not?
> 
> Thx
> -Steve



I'm not sure you'll find any like that given the temperature in a dry sauna is above the working temperature of most electronics. 

Your best bet would be to find some way to insulate the earphones somehow.


----------



## actorlife (Jun 22, 2019)

Jonathanangkasa said:


> Hi I'm just started to join the forums because of my interest in the TWS. After read and watch here and there and my curiosity I decided to buy both Sabbat E12 and Mifo o5 BA.
> 
> When receiveng the package both of them feel premium start from the unboxing.
> 
> ...



From what I gather in your review you like treble without it being too harsh, so I bet you'll like the Anbes 359. Seems to be sold out on amazon US, but I think ebay and Ali has them.


----------



## JimmyR

vladzakhar said:


> The sound of TZF X1 BA drivers is so addictive. Very balanced and clear. I love everything about them, except the charging case with no battery level indication and these tiny physical buttons too hard to push. Is it any other TWE with BA drivers and long battery life?
> 
> Also, for the real bass heads: Tranya T3 will surpass Sabbat E12 in this department.


 
Other than bass,other aspect you’ve  found Tranya better than VS E12, especifically: Mic quality?
Case size? It’s T3’s much bigger?

Those Tranya (T3 and the newly out T1pro) has caught my eye for the last weeks. I’ve been close to pull the trigger on them a few times. It’s hard to find any bad review on them other than failing in pairing both earphones now and then. Seems to be fixed with a reset, though... And for that price, they worth giving a thought.

Appreciate your feedback


----------



## TYATYA

vstolpner said:


> Which one is which?



MTW on the Left


----------



## vladzakhar

JimmyR said:


> Other than bass,other aspect you’ve  found Tranya better than VS E12, especifically: Mic quality?
> Case size? It’s T3’s much bigger?
> 
> Those Tranya (T3 and the newly out T1pro) has caught my eye for the last weeks. I’ve been close to pull the trigger on them a few times. It’s hard to find any bad review on them other than failing in pairing both earphones now and then. Seems to be fixed with a reset, though... And for that price, they worth giving a thought.
> ...


T3 is has bigger form factor. If you have small ears, they not for you. They protrude a little and it might be a problem to wear them in bed.
Connection is rock solid. 
Phone call quality is fine. People didn’t complain on the other side.
Case is a little bigger then E12 case, but feels very sturdy and can hold 6 full charges.
The physical buttons a little hard to press but manageable. 
Sound wise T3 are bass heavy, mids and highs are recessed a little.
The sound is pleasant overall, not fatiguing.
Best for EDM music.


----------



## Alphasoixante

Just pulled the trigger on the Tranya T3. It will be my first foray into true wireless. I just started going to the gym and my Final Audio E5000/Radsone ES100 combo is too annoying for working out. Also, I definitely worry that the E5000s will get damaged from sweat.

 Amazon is selling the T3 for $39.99 at the moment ($49.99 with $10 off coupon). If they're as good as people are saying for $40, I'll be a happy camper. They're due to arrive sometime today.

Thanks to everyone who contributed to this thread!


----------



## vladzakhar

T3 are little big for my ears, so I ordered T1 pro's. They have the smaller footprint. All other specs are the same.


----------



## hifi80sman

Soreniglio said:


> How are they sound-wise?


Excellent.  Balanced, clear, airy.


----------



## david8613 (Jun 22, 2019)

My T-8 just came in, not crazy about the appleish tips, I didnt know they were built like this, this style does not seal, and usually falls out in gym environment. Case is kind of cheapish feeling. They are nice and small, very light in ear. Button is nice a clicky. Mid bass foward, clear sound but not high quality like the anbes. Anbes is on a higher level on build, sound, quality. Do these need burn in, will sound change after more use? When I push them into ear and hold them in, the bass is better, these lack the seal you get with in ears.

i ordered some silicon apple ipod tips, I hope they fit to give better seal. Can someone try them if you have them on hand and report back?


----------



## assassin10000 (Jun 22, 2019)

@david8613 Silicone covers probably won't work well without cutting and fitting. They are shaped differently than the x12 pro/T8 housing airpod/earpod.

You can try foam earbud covers, thats what I used on the x12 pro's. It also provides enough seal for decent bass, still no isolation. It may even help stability a bit.



If you have punches you can make an offset hole for better mids/highs while retaining the bass provided by the foam covers.


----------



## Bartig

Received the generic branded XG-12 true wireless today and I'm pleasantly surprised. The charging case is a little shabby and the earpieces loose their connection for a split second when I move my finger on them, but the sound quality is honesty impressive. Detailed mids with above average soundstage and instrument placement and a clearly present however not overpowering bass.



Definitely better sounding than the two on the background.


----------



## david8613

I'm looking at mine a little closer, looks like there is alot of little hair line scratches all over especially around the buttons I think these were used or refurbished. Not happy about that, where did we order these again, I wanna send an email about that.


----------



## chinmie

Bartig said:


> Received the generic branded XG-12 true wireless today and I'm pleasantly surprised. The charging case is a little shabby and the earpieces loose their connection for a split second when I move my finger on them, but the sound quality is honesty impressive. Detailed mids with above average soundstage and instrument placement and a clearly present however not overpowering bass.
> 
> 
> 
> Definitely better sounding than the two on the background.



if price not a factor, how do you rate the 1more, Tranya and the QCY on sound?


----------



## Bartig

chinmie said:


> if price not a factor, how do you rate the 1more, Tranya and the QCY on sound?


Can I point you to Medium.com/@Scarbir? I wrote extensive reviews and comparisons on them.


----------



## actorlife

Bartig said:


> Can I point you to Medium.com/@Scarbir? I wrote extensive reviews and comparisons on them.


Bartig did you ever try the Anbes 359 yet?


----------



## chinmie

Bartig said:


> Can I point you to Medium.com/@Scarbir? I wrote extensive reviews and comparisons on them.



thanks, as a matter of fact I've just read them after i post my previous question, so you kind of answered me before i asked 
so if I'm not mistaken, in pure SQ wise the T1C is still comparable to the T3 and 1more? being the difference only in better build quality and functionality on the latter two (and of course the EQ tuning)?


----------



## Caipirina

simon740 said:


> Thank you.
> 
> Im looking somethink for gym and run...
> like this...
> ...



While I like the open design of the sabbat x12, I fear they would fall out while running. 
I just finished another 12K run with the Syllable S101 in my ears and I am still very happy with the sound, connectivity, and reliable fit. You might want to look into those

Can't see which Anbes you are considering there, my internet connection is all wonky and won't show me pics .. but that seller must employ the slowest delivery service ever ... telling me for my location (Germany) arriving 8/27 !!!


----------



## Caipirina

vladzakhar said:


> The sound of TZF X1 BA drivers is so addictive. Very balanced and clear. I love everything about them, except the charging case with no battery level indication and these tiny physical buttons too hard to push. Is it any other TWE with BA drivers and long battery life?
> 
> Also, for the real bass heads: Tranya T3 will surpass Sabbat E12 in this department.



That TFZ is same as Mifo o5 pro, right? I am starting to get used to that BA sound ... 

and that Tranya, now you made me curious .. you tested them? I wonder if they are available elsewhere under different name
(oh, screw it and my over eager trigger fingers ... found them on amazon DE with a 20% voucher ... and if I don't like them I can easily return   )


----------



## cityle

Somebody would know by any chance something like the TRN BT20 that could be used with ATH-IM02? Or another IEM using MMCX or 2 pins that sounds like the ATH-IM02?


----------



## BigAund

Anyone with the Cambridge Audios, are they as big as they look in the photos? I'm using the earin m2 which is tiny but thinking of trying these Melomania out. Thanks


----------



## vladzakhar

BigAund said:


> Anyone with the Cambridge Audios, are they as big as they look in the photos? I'm using the earin m2 which is tiny but thinking of trying these Melomania out. Thanks


Melmanias are definitely bigger then M2s, but not as big as showing in the ad.


----------



## david8613

Hey guys those t8s are not that impressive at all to me, they sound too mid foward and boxy/cupped, they are clear though, I will keep at work as spares. In my rotation right now is sennheiser momentum tw, anbes 359, Jabra 65t, and like them in that order for different reasons. Now I wanna know is there another budget tw headset that is at the level of the anbes 359 sound quality at that same price level. Need a new toy to play with, I like bass as long as it clear, juicy and not muddy. Dont like piercing highs atc all either. Let me know.


----------



## JimmyR

vladzakhar said:


> T3 is has bigger form factor. If you have small ears, they not for you. They protrude a little and it might be a problem to wear them in bed.
> Connection is rock solid.
> Phone call quality is fine. People didn’t complain on the other side.
> Case is a little bigger then E12 case, but feels very sturdy and can hold 6 full charges.
> ...



Thanks for such detailed comments. That was basically what i was looking for.
Just One thing else: do you know if these support the AAC codec? 
Delay when watching videos on the smartphone?

After hearing about the size of the T3, I’ll probably go with the T1 pro. Seems like is the same than T3 but in a smaller form factor


----------



## JimmyR

Bartig said:


> Can I point you to Medium.com/@Scarbir? I wrote extensive reviews and comparisons on them.



Awesome comparison review!! Very nice job


----------



## slitzx

cityle said:


> Somebody would know by any chance something like the TRN BT20 that could be used with ATH-IM02? Or another IEM using MMCX or 2 pins that sounds like the ATH-IM02?


Perhaps try an ATH to MMCX adapter? Either make your own or maybe this might do the trick? https://www.aliexpress.com/item/LN005585/32885775461.html


----------



## Technocow

actorlife said:


> above amazon ad. Below Ali express ad
> 
> Thanks. So suffice to say not Graphene drivers? Dynamic. Edit added pic. How is the SQ?



I apoligjze as I am a noob in the area of the tws world.  These are my first tws, so a bit hard to compare to other models, but the amazon listing photos and the a6 airtwins do match, so it's possible it does have the graphene diaphram. (it does not list this in the included manual) SQ is bassy when tips are fully inserted..almost too much for my ears..highs are drowned out because of this. However, when the tips are not fully inserted all the way, it's more neutral signature. (less bass, clear highs and mids.) It took a lot of eq'ing for me to get a signature I was happy with. The Soundstage and imaging are good. Volume is ok. I have to turn it up to 75% to achieve a loud level. 

Also of note they come with the small size tips already on, but the medium is what fit my ears and allowed for deeper insertion. I think new or custom/3rd party tips would highly benefit the sound. So far I have pushed out only 3 hrs of battery time via music listening, so a bit outdated compared to the newer models with longer battery life.  There is also an annoying voice that activates when either the battery is low and when they connect for the first time. The language is in chinese. (I think)  I'm glad I only spent $19.99 as I'm still a bit skeptical of tws. This is a good starter to upgrade to a better model in the future though.

I would be very interested in your thoughts when you get a chance to test these out and what models they compare to.


----------



## Bartig

chinmie said:


> thanks, as a matter of fact I've just read them after i post my previous question, so you kind of answered me before i asked
> so if I'm not mistaken, in pure SQ wise the T1C is still comparable to the T3 and 1more? being the difference only in better build quality and functionality on the latter two (and of course the EQ tuning)?


No, the Tranya T3 offers lot more bass and better instrument placement. Mids and highs are more natural instead of pushed forward, as they are on the QCY. The T3 offers more detail than the 1more too - which sounds full and smooth, but can also sound a little congested.


----------



## sanakimpro

I'm just a hobbyist and have tried some other TWEs but there seems to be so much heat on the Senn MTWs. I don't quite get it. It's my fourth day of owning it and I find the sound to be top notch what I'd expect for $300, no battery issues so far (4hrs on max volume, AptX), bluetooth to be great (some dropouts but not too bothered because it resolved itself). Smart control app does require you to turn it on, let it detect the MTW, close it and then turn it on a second time. After that it works flawlessly.

Granted my use case is I charge it every night along with my smartphone, I turn on bluetooth before taking the right earbud out of the charging case, I only put the buds back in the case when it's around 20% remaining battery. 

All in all, there is some small bugs here and there but I can accept it given the sound quality. The MTW's sound so clean from the bass to treble. Bass is well controlled and non-flabby. I prefer more mid/upper-bass boom to make it more engaging, but it is what it is. Mids are smooth without obvious peaks nor sibilance. Treble is great, but not IE800 quality in terms of extension, clarity, detail and resolution, but it's more than great for $300. 

Well, if you want to clarify and questions or doubts, let me know and I'll try to help. I don't work for Sennheiser or any audio company so I'll just do my best. Kindness before headphones  (borrowed from Denae & Andrew)


----------



## TYATYA

E8 ver2. No claim more but aptx and more foward mids


----------



## nc8000

TYATYA said:


> E8 ver2. No claim more but aptx and more foward mids



They should be identical to V1 except for the charging case


----------



## actorlife

Technocow said:


> I apoligjze as I am a noob in the area of the tws world.  These are my first tws, so a bit hard to compare to other models, but the amazon listing photos and the a6 airtwins do match, so it's possible it does have the graphene diaphram. (it does not list this in the included manual) SQ is bassy when tips are fully inserted..almost too much for my ears..highs are drowned out because of this. However, when the tips are not fully inserted all the way, it's more neutral signature. (less bass, clear highs and mids.) It took a lot of eq'ing for me to get a signature I was happy with. The Soundstage and imaging are good. Volume is ok. I have to turn it up to 75% to achieve a loud level.
> 
> Also of note they come with the small size tips already on, but the medium is what fit my ears and allowed for deeper insertion. I think new or custom/3rd party tips would highly benefit the sound. So far I have pushed out only 3 hrs of battery time via music listening, so a bit outdated compared to the newer models with longer battery life.  There is also an annoying voice that activates when either the battery is low and when they connect for the first time. The language is in chinese. (I think)  I'm glad I only spent $19.99 as I'm still a bit skeptical of tws. This is a good starter to upgrade to a better model in the future though.
> 
> I would be very interested in your thoughts when you get a chance to test these out and what models they compare to.



Thanks for the overview. No way only 3 hrs battery? I might have to return them. I should be able to listen later on today and see if the sound sig is to my liking and post some thoughts. I use medium tips as well. Hopefully they will sound better than the Syllable S101. The only good thing about those are the 8hr battery at 50-60 percent volume. No clear sparkly highs, no soundstage and bass is good.


----------



## Aeneas (Jun 23, 2019)

I think I might have finally found a TWE that I am happy with in every way. I didn't think this day would come for anything made by Beats, but I think the *Powerbeats Pro* are the best sports (possibly also general purpose) TWEs on the market overall.

The soundstage is better than most if not all that I have owned, and they are not as bass-heavy or muddy as Sony SP-WF700N. It is hard to compare to Momentum TW and B&O E8 because it has been a few months, but I am not disappointed.

The case is bigger than most, but if you are used to CIEM cases, it is not as bad as I was led to believe.

No connection issues at all so far. I can't say that about any other TWE.

Superb battery life. Very comfortable. I would prefer better isolation, but I wonder if that also causes fatigue. I think 2-flange tips help a bit with this. They are fine anywhere except on subways.


In the last couple of months I've also tried:

*Sony WF-SP700N: *very good but the worst battery life of around 2 hours, making them essentially unusable, and also a bit too bassy. The battery case is a little awkward because of the fins and curved shape. A bit fiddly.
I got the occasional connection issue, but this was interference than full-on drop-out. With better battery life and other tweaks, the next Sony TWE should be excellent.

*Creative Outlier Air: *the worst connection of any Bluetooth device I've had, poor fit, and washed out sound.
I read some extremely positive reviews (not here) and I am deeply suspicious of them and most reviews sites now.



Aeneas said:


> I saw this thread a few weeks ago while I was weighing up whether to buy Beoplay E8 2.0.
> 
> I’ve owned several wireless earbuds now, so here are a few thoughts. Unfortunately I haven’t really compared any side-by-side, so this is from memory.
> 
> ...


----------



## Caipirina (Jun 23, 2019)

david8613 said:


> Hey guys those t8s are not that impressive at all to me, they sound too mid foward and boxy/cupped, they are clear though, I will keep at work as spares. In my rotation right now is sennheiser momentum tw, anbes 359, Jabra 65t, and like them in that order for different reasons. Now I wanna know is there another budget tw headset that is at the level of the anbes 359 sound quality at that same price level. Need a new toy to play with, I like bass as long as it clear, juicy and not muddy. Dont like piercing highs atc all either. Let me know.



By chance I spent some time with my new Blitzwolf FYE 5 today and I like them quite some, might be an interesting addition ... not sure how to describe the sound .. somewhat neutral maybe?

Already fear the day my T8 arrive .. what idiot brought them up here? Oh, wait, that might have been me ... 

There are also the Anomoibuds Capsule which I got curious about since (i think) Bartig mentioned them in some list up ... and those are similar to those Blitzwolf, but with better eartips, which fit in the case ... drives me nuts with the BW that when I put other tips on, they don't fit in the case anymore ...

just something to think about \

oh, and here another lemming impulse: I might later blindly order these ... also just to have something new to play with 




And semi related, as I am scouring around for more reviews on the above ... anyone know what that music player app for iOS is that I see in so many Chinese review videos? I wonder if it is something like China's spotify, and I can't find it in my stores ... #D015


----------



## senorbroom

Seems like the successor to the WF-1000X, the WF-1000XM3, are about to drop at any time: http://thewalkmanblog.blogspot.com/2019/06/sony-wf-1000xm3-leaked-by-retailer.html

Hopefully this will have fixed the faults with the original model, but the tepid reviews on the 700 and 900 models have me worried. I owned the WI-1000X (neckbud model) for about a week but found the style cumbersome and the sound wasn't *quite* hi-fi. If the new model sounds anywhere near as good as that model it will be the best true wireless on the market.


----------



## nc8000

senorbroom said:


> Seems like the successor to the WF-1000X, the WF-1000XM3, are about to drop at any time: http://thewalkmanblog.blogspot.com/2019/06/sony-wf-1000xm3-leaked-by-retailer.html
> 
> Hopefully this will have fixed the faults with the original model, but the tepid reviews on the 700 and 900 models have me worried. I owned the WI-1000X (neckbud model) for about a week but found the style cumbersome and the sound wasn't *quite* hi-fi. If the new model sounds anywhere near as good as that model it will be the best true wireless on the market.



Will be interesting to see if they get LDAC


----------



## clerkpalmer

nc8000 said:


> Will be interesting to see if they get LDAC


Look pretty awesome. Better be for 249 euros.


----------



## david8613

More info here. If siny bring these to the states I will buy!!! The first generation sounded so good, small, light, the only thing that held it back was battery life, and connectivity out doors. Noise cancelling worked great, not Bose level but it worked for such a tiny thing.

http://thewalkmanblog.blogspot.com/2019/04/sony-will-be-releasing-updated-wf.html?m=1


----------



## vladzakhar (Jun 23, 2019)

I received the Tranya T1 Pro today. Compare to T3 the sound is thiner, less bass. And they don't fit as good as T3's. Great buds nevertheless. Going to be the great present to my son.


----------



## hifi80sman

david8613 said:


> More info here. If siny bring these to the states I will buy!!! The first generation sounded so good, small, light, the only thing that held it back was battery life, and connectivity out doors. Noise cancelling worked great, not Bose level but it worked for such a tiny thing.
> 
> http://thewalkmanblog.blogspot. You com/2019/04/sony-will-be-releasing-updated-wf.html?m=1


I want those sooo bad.  Gimmie!  I actually like touch controls, so hopefully they’ll have that as well.

It’s getting interesting...


----------



## Bartig

Caipirina said:


> By chance I spent some time with my new Blitzwolf FYE 5 today and I like them quite some, might be an interesting addition ... not sure how to describe the sound .. somewhat neutral maybe?
> 
> Already fear the day my T8 arrive .. what idiot brought them up here? Oh, wait, that might have been me ...
> 
> ...


Don't get too hyped up about your impulse. Bought them under the ‘Nishen’ brand. Plugging the charging cable in the case is a bit problematic on mine, but worse: the sound is a bit dull, lacking detail and highs.


----------



## senorbroom

hifi80sman said:


> I want those sooo bad.  Gimmie!  I actually like touch controls, so hopefully they’ll have that as well.
> 
> It’s getting interesting...



Noooooo, I love the Jabra physical controls. I’d want:

up/down clicker for volume + skip on the left earbud 
tap to play/pause on the right, double-tap to enable/disable ANC, touch+hold to pause + enable sound pass through (similar to the over-ear model)
Leave all the different sound tuning and ANC levels to the app.


----------



## david8613

anyone have a release date on these sonys?


----------



## Caipirina

Lemming alert!

Just sharing some curious 'new' oddities I discovered on AliExpress ... maybe sharing keeps me from blindly ordering stuff  

Starting with, let's call them 'ChromeBuds' ... with the talk of T1 recently I thought those might be redressed Tranyas, but a quick google pic check and 'nope' ... this should be either called the T1000 or T2-Judgement Day    ANy thoughts? 


 

And then we have some cheap looking (because they are cheap) powerbeats pro wannabe lookalikes ... They come either with a charging stand (which I guess simply holds those dual cables) for ~15$ or 'naked' for ~10$ ... besides the obvious 'they can't sound good', I refrain from pulling trigger finger since I had this shape once before in a wired BT model and could not get a good fit ... (also, a look from the top reveals that they are rather massive!!!) 

 

And last but not least, those guys caught my eye with that dual DD look! I mean, it looks really fancy, but nowhere does it say 2DD ... so, just decoration? 

 

Not going to post links, as I don't want to create another T8 situation ... if you are really desperate, do image search or ask me  

Just happy to share new findings and always looking fwd what others see that I might have missed ... cheers


----------



## chinmie (Jun 24, 2019)

Caipirina said:


> Lemming alert!
> 
> Just sharing some curious 'new' oddities I discovered on AliExpress ... maybe sharing keeps me from blindly ordering stuff
> 
> Starting with, let's call them 'ChromeBuds' ... with the talk of T1 recently I thought those might be redressed Tranyas, but a quick google pic check and 'nope' ... this should be either called the T1000 or T2-Judgement Day    ANy thoughts?



well, speak of the devil, i just happen to order something similar (or exact same?) in form factor from this, but with a different name: the Nillkin Go.

and it so happened to arrive this afternoon.


here is size comparison to the standard carbon case:



and size comparison to the T1C, Sabbat X12, and Earin M2



other than the obviously similar form factor, with the chrome TWS, i don't know if they also share the same specs and functionality.

i can write a review right now, but i don't want to run too hot and sound hyping things, so I'll give a few days to settle down and find all the pros and cons to balance it out. but i can tell you this: as of now, i like it a lot


----------



## vstolpner

Trying out my new Astrotec Momentum (i.e. S80) and having issues with sound quality - sounds like it's defaulting to the phone call protocol and sounds like crap. Any ideas what could be the fix?

My other TWS IEMs sound fine, and changing volume on my phone (Galaxy S8) changes "media" volume, not in-call volume.

Tired restarting phone and IEMs already


----------



## Caipirina

chinmie said:


> well, speak of the devil, i just happen to order something similar (or exact same?) in form factor from this, but with a different name: the Nillkin Go.
> 
> and it so happened to arrive this afternoon.
> 
> ...



Thanks for the pics, I am a huuge sucker for size compare pics! 

I don't need a full on review, just first sound impressions ... if it is 'not trash' I might just add to collection because chrome=shiny and i like that form factor 

Cheers


----------



## openyoureyes

@chinmie 

According to the description on Aliexpress the Nillkin can handle multiple connections (Multipoint) at the same time (like the Jabra Elite 65t) in dual mode. I asked the seller and he confimed that too.

Is this really true? Can you connect two devices at the same time in stereo/dual mode?


----------



## Bartig

Caipirina said:


> Lemming alert!
> 
> Just sharing some curious 'new' oddities I discovered on AliExpress ... maybe sharing keeps me from blindly ordering stuff
> 
> ...


Nice finds, especially the ‘Chromebuds’ and the last one. From what I've learned the hard way though, it's best not to get generic brand less items...


----------



## Caipirina

@chinmie 

One more qustion regarding the Nillkin and their FIT ... I am wondering about that 'hook' thingie ... if that is useful or rather annoying ... I have trouble to make out how that is supposed to fit.


----------



## hifi80sman

Interesting review on the Sabbat E12.  This guy is really entertaining.


----------



## JimmyR

vladzakhar said:


> I received the Tranya T1 Pro today. Compare to T3 the sound is thiner, less bass. And they don't fit as good as T3's. Great buds nevertheless. Going to be the great present to my son.



Thanks for the update. Such a present for your soon,umm?


----------



## wizll

vstolpner said:


> Trying out my new Astrotec Momentum (i.e. S80) and having issues with sound quality - sounds like it's defaulting to the phone call protocol and sounds like crap. Any ideas what could be the fix?
> 
> My other TWS IEMs sound fine, and changing volume on my phone (Galaxy S8) changes "media" volume, not in-call volume.
> 
> Tired restarting phone and IEMs already


oof. i have actually seen this before with my 1000xm3. phone restart fortunately fixed it for me. I have not yet run into that issue with my Astrotec S80 or anbes359 so far.


----------



## vstolpner

wizll said:


> oof. i have actually seen this before with my 1000xm3. phone restart fortunately fixed it for me. I have not yet run into that issue with my Astrotec S80 or anbes359 so far.



Left it for a couple hours and came back and seems better now.

How do you find the fit on the S80's? I can't seem to get a good seal or comfortable fit.


----------



## Dobrescu George

TWS coming my way, impressions to come soon btw


----------



## hifi80sman

vstolpner said:


> Trying out my new Astrotec Momentum (i.e. S80) and having issues with sound quality - sounds like it's defaulting to the phone call protocol and sounds like crap. Any ideas what could be the fix?
> 
> My other TWS IEMs sound fine, and changing volume on my phone (Galaxy S8) changes "media" volume, not in-call volume.
> 
> Tired restarting phone and IEMs already


Maybe it's because you have a *Gamsung Galaxy S8*.  I'm all for Chi-Fi TWEs, but not Flagship Smartphones!    In all seriousness, I too have a Samsung Galaxy s8 and have had no issues connecting it.


----------



## hifi80sman

vstolpner said:


> Left it for a couple hours and came back and seems better now.
> 
> How do you find the fit on the S80's? I can't seem to get a good seal or comfortable fit.


I had to use different ear tips.  Wasn't a big fan of the ones it came with, so since I have literally 200 of them, I engaged in a bit of trial & error.  Found some ovals (Large) from one of the cheap-o Bluedio neckband earbuds I purchased a while back that work like a charm.


----------



## wizll

vstolpner said:


> Left it for a couple hours and came back and seems better now.
> 
> How do you find the fit on the S80's? I can't seem to get a good seal or comfortable fit.


So far, I've only switched over to the more standard black tips it came with over those gray things that were on it by default. It's ok. I have only had it for a few days, so honestly still experimenting with the fit. definitely did not just fit almost perfectly as the anbes 359 did for me.


----------



## vstolpner

wizll said:


> So far, I've only switched over to the more standard black tips it came with over those gray things that were on it by default. It's ok. I have only had it for a few days, so honestly still experimenting with the fit. definitely did not just fit almost perfectly as the anbes 359 did for me.



Yeah, the Anbes 359 fit the best so far. The only issue I have with them is when I press the button on the right ear, the sound in that ear cuts out - I think it closes the sound port against the inside of my ear somehow. I did find that if I rotate the earbuds so the back sits against my ear as much as possible, this issue is reduced somewhat.

The mifo O5's and SoundPeats TrueFree have fit really well too. Guess just the S80's have a weird fit (for me at least)


----------



## LajostheHun

Bhelpoori said:


> The S101 supports AptX but only reluctantly as it has a hit on battery life.  I use it connected to my Mac by forcing it that way with confirmation that it is actually using the codec via the Bluetooth logs.


Aptx is much easier on the battery than AAC, since it is a much simpler codec. AAC will engage your CPU, while Aptx needs  no computational power at all.


----------



## LajostheHun

FYLegend said:


> But exactly what's wrong with the Sabbat? I've seen too many up and down impressions of it.


hollow mid range that can't even  be fixed by heavy EQ. There many better choices for less than half of it's current price.


----------



## chinmie

openyoureyes said:


> @chinmie
> 
> According to the description on Aliexpress the Nillkin can handle multiple connections (Multipoint) at the same time (like the Jabra Elite 65t) in dual mode. I asked the seller and he confimed that too.
> 
> Is this really true? Can you connect two devices at the same time in stereo/dual mode?



it cannot connect in stereo like the Jabra does. it can only connect in mono each to one devices (like any standard BT5 realtek based TWS). the Jabra is unique in that because it can connect to two devices. other that the Bose, i don't know any other TWS that does that. 



Caipirina said:


> @chinmie
> 
> One more qustion regarding the Nillkin and their FIT ... I am wondering about that 'hook' thingie ... if that is useful or rather annoying ... I have trouble to make out how that is supposed to fit.



that hook is actually useful, because it cups the ears and creates anchor point, so that clicking the buttons won't jam them deeper inside the ears. 

anyway, here's my day one review:

-the fit is great for me. it sits nicely like a CIEM, so the body also touches the ears and provide support. 

-slim and sleek looking. the Mifo sits more flush on the ears, but the Mifo doesn't have air vents, so pushing it will create a discomforting vacuum. the Nillkin has air vents.

-because of the air vents, it doesn't create too much isolation. in fact, it only has minimal isolation, like the EX1000 and other open back IEMs. still isolate more than the Sabbat x12, but definitely less than others.

-it has button controls, and similar to sabbat in operation. triple click for volumes.
-the case is really small, but because of the lid design, two handed operation is necessary. 
-the case can accommodate normal sized eartips and still charge. i use settled for Symbio peel on mine for now.

-the sound is similar to my ER4XR, which is a great surprise. the ER4XR has leaner midbass while the Nillkin has a slight thicker midbass. the Bass on the Nillkin is not boosted at all, similar to the ER4XR, and about the same level as the mids, but the extention really go deep, not cut off like the Mifo pro. treble is sparkly and bright like the ER4XR. soundstage is also similar: intimate player position while maintaining good soundstage/room size information. if the T1C is like listening to car stereo/movie theater, the Nillkin is like listening to monitor speaker up close. the speed/dynamic of the presentation is also snappy, fast and closer to BAs like ER4XR than the bloomy dynamic drivers of the T1C.. heck, it's even faster and clearer than the Earin M2, which is clearly uses BAs

-battery tested: i listened to it from 8PM, and it says battery low at around 2AM. i did listened in a low volume though that later hours. 

this is definitely my new go to TWS

i don't know if the chrome T1 uses the same tech. i also found this, similar to the Nillkin and chrome T1 in shape:

https://m.aliexpress.com/item/32955906832.html

the chrome and Nillkin is much more similar though


----------



## LajostheHun

Jonathanangkasa said:


> Hi I'm just started to join the forums because of my interest in the TWS. After read and watch here and there and my curiosity I decided to buy both Sabbat E12 and Mifo o5 BA.
> 
> When receiveng the package both of them feel premium start from the unboxing.
> 
> ...


I found Mifo far superior to the E12, and I have the standard dynamic driver version. Once EQ'ed it's mid range[rich and warm] is the best of any TWS I tried so far [about 7 different ones many mentioned here on this thread]. Also  the little filter to protect against ear wax blocks a lot of HF energy, so I removed it, highs sparkle now. Oh and the fact that I didn't even need to charge the case for about the month, is just tremendous that 2600mah battery goes a long way indeed.


----------



## LajostheHun

hifi80sman said:


> Interesting review on the Sabbat E12.  This guy is really entertaining.



yup one of the reasons I bought it too. good video  lousy TWS.


----------



## chinmie (Jun 25, 2019)

LajostheHun said:


> I found Mifo far superior to the E12, and I have the standard dynamic driver version.



agreed

i also contemplating to remove the wax guard to release the treble potential, but i also think the mifo strength is the way it handles waterproofing, so i decided not to do it in the end. i have sold my mifo, but i still recommend it as one of the good TWS. i certainly won't recommend the Sabbat e12, unless the person really like abundant bass


----------



## Bhelpoori

LajostheHun said:


> Aptx is much easier on the battery than AAC, since it is a much simpler codec. AAC will engage your CPU, while Aptx needs  no computational power at all.


The S101 uses a Qualcomm QCC3020 chip each side which has a low power audio codec which you can see on the data sheet at: https://www.qualcomm.com/products/qcc30xx-series . I suspect you will find that both codecs use the same "Low power audio codec" block to do the decode. If you look at the public specs you will notice that consumption varies between 6mA and 7mA per side... I can't find anything publicly that defines that figure but I expect the 6mA quote for consumption is using SBC and/or AAC playback.

I can't find the battery life quote with lower AptX life in the S101 specs any longer (it was on Amazon.co.uk) but the Nuarls which use the same chip in a different package (QCC3026) in the specs have this quote "Continuous Playtime about 10hr（SBC/AAC）about 7hr（aptX)" (https://nuarl.com/en/nt01ax/#nt01ax__2col).

My tests on the S101 show the power consumption of AptX to be a lower hit than that but this is maybe due to other variables, but it is a measurable change of between 20-25%.

From all three sources, I think we can conclude that for the QCC3020/26 chip only, using AptX uses more power, something which may have nothing to do with codec complexity but chip implementation.


----------



## webvan

senorbroom said:


> Seems like the successor to the WF-1000X, the WF-1000XM3, are about to drop at any time: http://thewalkmanblog.blogspot.com/2019/06/sony-wf-1000xm3-leaked-by-retailer.html
> 
> Hopefully this will have fixed the faults with the original model, but the tepid reviews on the 700 and 900 models have me worried. I owned the WI-1000X (neckbud model) for about a week but found the style cumbersome and the sound wasn't *quite* hi-fi. If the new model sounds anywhere near as good as that model it will be the best true wireless on the market.



Well it seems Sony could be releasing their new TWE before the QC5021 based models become available in the US/Europe ! I quite liked the sound of the WF-1000X so hopefully the M3 keeps that sound signature and improves on battery life, connection stability, ANC and form factor (not sticking out as obviously !).


----------



## david8613

yup I cant wait for the new sonys to become available. sony makes pretty awesome headphones. I have some gift cards from best buy, I will be picking up on day one. no more cheap chifi for me while this is on the horizon. this is the first tw in 2019 that I am excited about. those t8 where terrible! I gave them away after more use they were no where near the level of the anbes 359 for cheap chifi that is good sounding.


----------



## BobJS

So I just got back from my morning walk around the facility (for exercise ... desk job ... too easy to become a blob without programmed walks) with my trusty MW07.  I found myself musing ... with all the $$ thrown away trying out cheap inexpensive wireless chi-fi offerings, I could have just stopped with the MW07.  If power-on time is an issue (I've never run out of battery for my needs), heck, you could buy 2 MW07s to alternate between and call it a day.

But I get it.  It's kind of like cheating on the love of your life with cheap, tawdry flings.  But you always come home.

Umm... did I say that out loud?


----------



## LajostheHun

Bhelpoori said:


> The S101 uses a Qualcomm QCC3020 chip each side which has a low power audio codec which you can see on the data sheet at: https://www.qualcomm.com/products/qcc30xx-series . I suspect you will find that both codecs use the same "Low power audio codec" block to do the decode. If you look at the public specs you will notice that consumption varies between 6mA and 7mA per side... I can't find anything publicly that defines that figure but I expect the 6mA quote for consumption is using SBC and/or AAC playback.
> 
> I can't find the battery life quote with lower AptX life in the S101 specs any longer (it was on Amazon.co.uk) but the Nuarls which use the same chip in a different package (QCC3026) in the specs have this quote "Continuous Playtime about 10hr（SBC/AAC）about 7hr（aptX)" (https://nuarl.com/en/nt01ax/#nt01ax__2col).
> 
> ...


I was talking about mainly on the transmitting side, as AAC is far more complicated codec and needs much more computational power , but once that is done I suspect on the receiving end not much needs to be done other than a simple conversion to PCM and then to analog...


----------



## RobinFood

chinmie said:


> it cannot connect in stereo like the Jabra does. it can only connect in mono each to one devices (like any standard BT5 realtek based TWS). the Jabra is unique in that because it can connect to two devices. other that the Bose, i don't know any other TWS that does that.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Wow Chinmie, can you let me keep some money in my pockets? It sounds too good to be true, and here I am trying to save up for a smabat-bt20s combo!


----------



## chinmie

RobinFood said:


> Wow Chinmie, can you let me keep some money in my pockets? It sounds too good to be true, and here I am trying to save up for a smabat-bt20s combo!



sorry, i used the ER4XR reference to drive people off, i forgot there's a fellow Etymotic guy here also 

I'll be bringing it with me to japan next week, i hope there's a downtime in my vacation so we could meet up. I'll be in osaka from 6 to 8 of july


----------



## billbishere

I have had BT headphones since bluebuds x.  Those are still some of the best sounding to this day but they died not too long ago actually, lasted like 6 years several washings and dryings actually.  They were pretty amazing.  

I have Jaybird Tarah Pro - they are pretty average even with EQ.
Bowers and Wilkins PX - they are the best, but only after EQ.  Sys wide EQ on OP6.
My Bose Soundsports in ears are some of my best BT sound from a ear bud, they have active EQ.
I also have on ear bose soundlinks- the are ok.  Sorta "beats" sounding tho honestly, not great but ok for podcasts.


----------



## Caipirina

BobJS said:


> But I get it.  It's kind of like cheating on the love of your life with cheap, tawdry flings.  But you always come home.



That kinda nails it!


----------



## Caipirina

That's the really nice thing about Amazon vs Aliexpress ... no multi-week wait 

My Tranya T3 were just delivered and I only listened for like 6 minutes, but the smile on my face is HUUUUGE ...
yes, that one is for the bass heads out here, for me, those are perfect for running (if they stay in, so far it feels they will)

Curious note: The Accessory box also says アクセサリー　(A ku se sa ri ) in Japanese ...

Me like ... now I need to check on those generic brand XG-12 that I saw mentioned further above ...


----------



## Caipirina

Bartig said:


> Received the generic branded XG-12 true wireless today and I'm pleasantly surprised. The charging case is a little shabby and the earpieces loose their connection for a split second when I move my finger on them, but the sound quality is honesty impressive. Detailed mids with above average soundstage and instrument placement and a clearly present however not overpowering bass.
> 
> 
> 
> Definitely better sounding than the two on the background.



dang, for 10.25$ after coupons and 1000+ reviews (in general positive) AND then Bartig's blessings ... how can I NOT click BUY?  

lemminglemminglemming ...


----------



## hifi80sman (Jun 26, 2019)

So, just got the Jlab Jbuds Air Executive.  Actually, for $69, they have a lot of features that work well.

PROS
- BT 5.0
- Ambient mode (yes!).
- Responsive Touch Controls (yes, Vol control too).
- Good mic quality for calls.
- 6 hour battery.
- AAC Codec.
- Secure fit, comfortable.
- Nice case with 24 hours extra charge.
- Well built (case & buds) and does not have that cheap feel.

CONS
- Touch control scheme is a little odd.  1 tap is Vol +/- and 2 taps is play/pause, which IMO should be reversed.  3 taps for ambient mode.  Press and hold for skipping tracks.
- EQ choices suck.  Both "Balanced" and "Bass Boost" lower the volume by 25% when activated and neither sound particularly good.  Balanced sounds like Weaksauce and Bass Boost sounds like your speakers got stuck in the mud.
- Jlab "Signature" EQ is overly bright for me, and more accurately, I'd say the highs are too "crispy".  If you have hearing loss, these are perfect.  Lowering the treble range from 2 kHz through 16 kHz definitely gives me a better sound, but YMMV depending on your preferences.
- Some driver flex noise.

Still teetering on whether or not to keep them.


----------



## flamerz

So this thread is massive now... I bought the Bragi Headphones in 2017 and they're still doing well. Battery originally lasted about 4-5 hours per charge and probably last 3-4 hours now. The charging case is finicky, but it works well enough and charges in about an hour. I really like the setting that allows you to hear your surroundings. 

That said, I'm looking for a replacement. The sound quality is just alright. It never impresses me, but good enough for most portable situations. It's hard to browse through this thread, but what newer headphones have great sound quality, have the ability to be "open" or closed, and ideally have a charging case that stores power?


----------



## JimmyR

chinmie said:


> it cannot connect in stereo like the Jabra does. it can only connect in mono each to one devices (like any standard BT5 realtek based TWS). the Jabra is unique in that because it can connect to two devices. other that the Bose, i don't know any other TWS that does that.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Thansk for sharing your impression on the sound quality...can you tell something about call quality? Volume and clarity on the other end? Thanks!


----------



## JimmyR

hifi80sman said:


> So, just got the Jlab Jbuds Air Executive.  Actually, for $69, they have a lot of features that work well.
> 
> PROS
> - BT 5.0
> ...



Sounds really good for that price and they come from a renowned company... I'm not a big fan of the stem-down design, but I recognize these have got my attention.. Thanks for the concise but helpful review


----------



## snip3r77

chinmie said:


> well, speak of the devil, i just happen to order something similar (or exact same?) in form factor from this, but with a different name: the Nillkin Go.
> 
> and it so happened to arrive this afternoon.
> 
> ...



What would you recommend for <$50 ?


----------



## Niyologist

I got the Astrotec S80. So far I love what I'm hearing. No drop outs and excellent sound quality.

I'll go into more detail later.


----------



## chinmie

JimmyR said:


> Thansk for sharing your impression on the sound quality...can you tell something about call quality? Volume and clarity on the other end? Thanks!



i only testet it at home, ordering food and also recording with a bluetooth recorder app, no problem so far. haven't test it in noisy places yet



snip3r77 said:


> What would you recommend for <$50 ?



i recommend the Nillkin Go, QCY T1C, and Sabbat x12


----------



## vstolpner

chinmie said:


> i recommend the Nillkin Go, QCY T1C, and Sabbat x12



Don't forget Anbes 359. Fantastic quality for well under $50 and better than the QCY T1C in my opinion.


----------



## vstolpner

Niyologist said:


> I got the Astrotec S80. So far I love what I'm hearing. No drop outs and excellent sound quality.
> 
> I'll go into more detail later.



How do you find the fit and seal? I can't find a single tip to make these comfortable :-/


----------



## Trilis

Hello guys, I have a big choice. I can get Jabra elite active 65t for 100eur or I can buy Tranya T3 for 50eur. Seems like Jabra is "take my money" deal  But it is quite old, maybe there is better options? Or should I wait some more time?


----------



## RobinFood

Trilis said:


> Hello guys, I have a big choice. I can get Jabra elite active 65t for 100eur or I can buy Tranya T3 for 50eur. Seems like Jabra is "take my money" deal  But it is quite old, maybe there is better options? Or should I wait some more time?



I personally don't like the Jabras and think that for 100 euros you can do better. Have you auditioned them before?


----------



## Trilis

RobinFood said:


> I personally don't like the Jabras and think that for 100 euros you can do better. Have you auditioned them before?


no, have not tried them yet. What other possible options you can offer? I would like to get the list and audition them all


----------



## chinmie

vstolpner said:


> Don't forget Anbes 359. Fantastic quality for well under $50 and better than the QCY T1C in my opinion.



i wish haven't have too many already, or else I'm sure to try the anbes based on the so many recommendations here 



Trilis said:


> Hello guys, I have a big choice. I can get Jabra elite active 65t for 100eur or I can buy Tranya T3 for 50eur. Seems like Jabra is "take my money" deal  But it is quite old, maybe there is better options? Or should I wait some more time?



haven't tried the T3, but i can tell you you are buying the tech for the 65t. 
soundwise, many sub 100 usd TWS can surpass it.


----------



## Trilis

chinmie said:


> haven't tried the T3, but i can tell you you are buying the tech for the 65t.
> soundwise, many sub 100 usd TWS can surpass it.



Maybe I should just try on T3, what else sub 100 TWS I could check on? 

Checked many reviews, seems top of the list is T3. Top overall goes active 65t or galaxy buds.

Galaxy buds or active 65t costs me ~120usd.


----------



## RobinFood

Trilis said:


> no, have not tried them yet. What other possible options you can offer? I would like to get the list and audition them all



For 100 euros you are really spoiled for choice. I really liked the Astrotec s60, so I might get the new S80s. Advance model X is also coming soon under that price and looks really promising. I might get the creative outlier, or I might even get the TRN BT20S and buy a TinAudio T2 to go with it, just to stay under 100 euros. Being in Japan, I could get the first Nuarl that didn't have APTx but still had HDSS and I would be under that price point.

On sound alone, I think a lot of earbuds sound better even in the sub 50$ zone. I didn't like the imaging and separation, or the soundstage of the Jabras.


----------



## vstolpner

Trilis said:


> Hello guys, I have a big choice. I can get Jabra elite active 65t for 100eur or I can buy Tranya T3 for 50eur. Seems like Jabra is "take my money" deal  But it is quite old, maybe there is better options? Or should I wait some more time?



You need to give a bit more info to really answer that... What are you going to use it for? What type of music are you going to listen to? What kind of sound do you like?

If you prefer the Apple AirPods type fit, there's the Sabbat X12. If you like base, you can try the Anbes 359 (maybe Sabbat E12, not sure what that latest on that is). If you're really base sensitive or really enjoy very detailed sound with little base, try one of the balanced armature units: mifo O5, Astrotec S60. 

Be a little more clear so we can give a better response. And look through the last dozen or so pages for general recommendations as well as check people's signatures for what they're using and check out reviews for those earphones.


----------



## BobJS

hifi80sman said:


> So, just got the Jlab Jbuds Air Executive.  Actually, for $69, they have a lot of features that work well.
> 
> PROS
> - BT 5.0
> ...



Personally, I had to call it quits when I saw the picture (form factor --- that stem!)


----------



## Bartig

hifi80sman said:


> So, just got the Jlab Jbuds Air Executive.  Actually, for $69, they have a lot of features that work well.
> 
> PROS
> - BT 5.0
> ...


Clear! Skip the Jlab, thanks!



vstolpner said:


> Don't forget Anbes 359. Fantastic quality for well under $50 and better than the QCY T1C in my opinion.


Finally have the Anbes on order. Curious how they will stand against my now 14 competitors. 



Trilis said:


> Hello guys, I have a big choice. I can get Jabra elite active 65t for 100eur or I can buy Tranya T3 for 50eur. Seems like Jabra is "take my money" deal  But it is quite old, maybe there is better options? Or should I wait some more time?


I'd go for the Tranya T3. Excellent sound quality, all controls on the earpieces, good battery life.


----------



## Trilis

vstolpner said:


> You need to give a bit more info to really answer that... What are you going to use it for? What type of music are you going to listen to? What kind of sound do you like?
> 
> If you prefer the Apple AirPods type fit, there's the Sabbat X12. If you like base, you can try the Anbes 359 (maybe Sabbat E12, not sure what that latest on that is). If you're really base sensitive or really enjoy very detailed sound with little base, try one of the balanced armature units: mifo O5, Astrotec S60.
> 
> Be a little more clear so we can give a better response. And look through the last dozen or so pages for general recommendations as well as check people's signatures for what they're using and check out reviews for those earphones.



Mostly I will be using in gym and cycling, prefer Rock music and some EDM. Really like crisp sound with good bass, so I can hear that bass guitar vibes clearly


----------



## vstolpner

Trilis said:


> Mostly I will be using in gym and cycling, prefer Rock music and some EDM. Really like crisp sound with good bass, so I can hear that bass guitar vibes clearly



From my testing I'd suggest the Anbes 359. A lot of people here are recommending Tranya T3 as well, but I haven't heard those to comment.
Mifo O5 Standard might be great too just due to the firm factor and IPX7 rating.


----------



## Soreniglio

@chinmie Do environment sound leak through when you are listening to music with Nillkin Go?


----------



## vstolpner

Bartig said:


> Finally have the Anbes on order. Curious how they will stand against my now 14 competitors.



Very curious how you find the Anbes stack up against Tranya T3, mifo O5, and 1more Stylish!!


----------



## chinmie

Soreniglio said:


> @chinmie Do environment sound leak through when you are listening to music with Nillkin Go?



yes, similar to other more open back IEMs


----------



## snip3r77

vstolpner said:


> You need to give a bit more info to really answer that... What are you going to use it for? What type of music are you going to listen to? What kind of sound do you like?
> 
> If you prefer the Apple AirPods type fit, there's the Sabbat X12. If you like base, you can try the Anbes 359 (maybe Sabbat E12, not sure what that latest on that is). If you're really base sensitive or really enjoy very detailed sound with little base, try one of the balanced armature units: mifo O5, Astrotec S60.
> 
> Be a little more clear so we can give a better response. And look through the last dozen or so pages for general recommendations as well as check people's signatures for what they're using and check out reviews for those earphones.


For sub $50 , most are running at around 5 hours ? I like good bass so it’s anbes 359?


----------



## vstolpner

snip3r77 said:


> For sub $50 , most are running at around 5 hours ? I like good bass so it’s anbes 359?



From my experience, yes. I haven't tried the Tranya T3 or the Syllable S101. All three have really good feedback on here but in not sure how many people here have combination of these. If you're on a newer Snapdragon processor, you might benefit from S101's Qualcomm chipset.


----------



## BigAund

Got the Cambridge Melomania yesterday. 

They aren't as large as they look in the photos thankfully but I do get some discomfort wearing them. As the included eartips are too small, I am forever having the push them deeper in my ears to get a seal and that causes them to rub against part of my ear and become uncomfortable. The nozzles are massive so I'm not sure I have any other tips that would cover them! Anyone having the same issues, can recommend some alternative tips?


----------



## pack21

Dobrescu George said:


> TWS coming my way, impressions to come soon btw


What TWS did you get?


----------



## CocaCola15

BigAund said:


> Got the Cambridge Melomania yesterday.
> 
> They aren't as large as they look in the photos thankfully but I do get some discomfort wearing them. As the included eartips are too small, I am forever having the push them deeper in my ears to get a seal and that causes them to rub against part of my ear and become uncomfortable. The nozzles are massive so I'm not sure I have any other tips that would cover them! Anyone having the same issues, can recommend some alternative tips?


I have them and can only use the foamies, roll them up and let them go. You do need to sort of squish them into place, but once in place, locked and loaded. I love the sound, and I probably won't wear them more than an hour or two (I have QCY1s as well). I like the CAs so much I sold my Senn Momentums on ebay (quick sale). Anyway, I may try out the Tranya T1 Pro or the T3, as a second backup pair (to the really cheap QCY 1). But I am keeping the CAs. Just really really like the sound. But for small ear canals, they could be a problem.


----------



## Caipirina

Trilis said:


> Hello guys, I have a big choice. I can get Jabra elite active 65t for 100eur or I can buy Tranya T3 for 50eur. Seems like Jabra is "take my money" deal  But it is quite old, maybe there is better options? Or should I wait some more time?



I have not heard / tried those Jabras ... I have the Elite Sport, which I liked, until they died ... not sure if Jabra had / has QC issues, but depleting battery case and other shenanigans made me look at 'cheap' models, where I don't feel bad if something breaks 

That said for 100€, you could get the Tranya T3, which I just got yesterday and I am madly in love .. also, amazon with coupon and it is 40€, and then for the leftover 60€ you could still get the QCY T1C as a back up (i am getting a pretty good seal on those and like the sound) ... and heck, try some other cheapos ... earlier Bartig recommended a no-brand thing that can be found on aliexpress for 15.25 (with 5$ coupon = 10.25) called the XG-12 ...  just saying ... you could get like 4 good pairs for 100€


----------



## Caipirina (Jun 26, 2019)

UPDATE: a trustworthy source tells us (a few posts below) that just DON’T ...  saved me another tenner.  Thank you Mr.B

Today's 10$ bargain bin find on AliX: "NFUNGYK TWS 5.0 Bluetooth earphone 5D stereo with microphone wireless earphone sport waterproof" .... clocking in at 10.77 and with 7 positive reviews     seriously ... what's that 4D, 5D, 6D deal? And who signs off on those terrible photoshop jobs?




But what I like is that it appears that those ear hooks are removable or come in an extra size and hopefully are some soft silicone ...



Anyone know them? Any other cool finds today? Bueller? Bueller?


----------



## milkybrkid

I don't know if these have been mentioned earlier in this thread or not but I've ordered a set of the following :- https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33034113339.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.16594c4dimA5E7

Seem fairly good specs at a decent price, I'll just have to wait for them to turn up to see how they sound.


----------



## FYLegend

Did anyone get the YTOM T1 yet or know if it's been released under another name? They have AptX and charge with Type C and 46$ CAD.

It seems Oluv's Earfun Free has been delayed to July. I hope it's worth the wait as it seems the regular version's tuning has mixed impressions.

Went to some local Asian malls recently and was really let down by the lack of TWS even in phone case stores.



RobinFood said:


> For 100 euros you are really spoiled for choice. I really liked the Astrotec s60, so I might get the new S80s. Advance model X is also coming soon under that price and looks really promising. I might get the creative outlier, or I might even get the TRN BT20S and buy a TinAudio T2 to go with it, just to stay under 100 euros. Being in Japan, I could get the first Nuarl that didn't have APTx but still had HDSS and I would be under that price point.
> 
> On sound alone, I think a lot of earbuds sound better even in the sub 50$ zone. I didn't like the imaging and separation, or the soundstage of the Jabras.


Was your S60 BT4.2 or BT5.0? Have you noticed distortion using them at max volume or using SBC? It seems mine rattles a bit more on the left bud while using SBC, but sounds clean with AAC. Although I prefer the sounds of the S60, the SBC quality on Jabras is far better which makes them more ideal for PC usage.


----------



## james444

BigAund said:


> Got the Cambridge Melomania yesterday.
> 
> They aren't as large as they look in the photos thankfully but I do get some discomfort wearing them. As the included eartips are too small, I am forever having the push them deeper in my ears to get a seal and that causes them to rub against part of my ear and become uncomfortable. The nozzles are massive so I'm not sure I have any other tips that would cover them! Anyone having the same issues, can recommend some alternative tips?



Same here, the largest included eartips are only a smidgen larger than common M-sized tips. Out of all L-sized alternative tips I've tried, only these "Sennheiser CX Gel Tips" fit both on the nozzle and (only just) into the charging case:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/6-Sennheis...Headset-Earphones-Gel-Tips-Large/220874421343


----------



## bduckyy

Looking for some new gym IEMs. Just lost my jaybirds and my soundsports free keep falling out. My main concern is with fit. A lot of the TWS looks like will fall out easily because of how big they are. 

The anbes 359 look like a good contender. They look small and won't fall out easily. Amazon has it sold out but the letscom looks the same. Or I can just get them from ali. Are there any other ones that are small?


----------



## Niyologist

vstolpner said:


> How do you find the fit and seal? I can't find a single tip to make these comfortable :-/



I used the Eartips that came with my Hifiboy OSV3.


----------



## vstolpner

bduckyy said:


> Looking for some new gym IEMs. Just lost my jaybirds and my soundsports free keep falling out. My main concern is with fit. A lot of the TWS looks like will fall out easily because of how big they are.
> 
> The anbes 359 look like a good contender. They look small and won't fall out easily. Amazon has it sold out but the letscom looks the same. Or I can just get them from ali. Are there any other ones that are small?



The Anbes will definitely stay in as they're very light and small. The Tranya T3 actually look very similar and have a coupon right now.


----------



## vstolpner

Niyologist said:


> I used the Eartips that came with my Hifiboy OSV3.



Yeah I'm using Anbes tips as they sit a fair bit out. Going to try foam tips later too. The included tips are useless for me.


----------



## hifi80sman (Jun 26, 2019)

vstolpner said:


> Yeah I'm using Anbes tips as they sit a fair bit out. Going to try foam tips later too. The included tips are useless for me.


Yeah, play around with it, but honestly, the sound is uncommonly good (Astrotec S80), especially at this price point.  It'll be worth it.


----------



## bduckyy

vstolpner said:


> The Anbes will definitely stay in as they're very light and small. The Tranya T3 actually look very similar and have a coupon right now.


Do you have a link for the coupon? I see it for $50 on amazon.


----------



## BigAund (Jul 2, 2019)

james444 said:


> Same here, the largest included eartips are only a smidgen larger than common M-sized tips. Out of all L-sized alternative tips I've tried, only these "Sennheiser CX Gel Tips" fit both on the nozzle and (only just) into the charging case:
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/6-Sennheis...Headset-Earphones-Gel-Tips-Large/220874421343



 Thought I had it with some other tips but nope...


----------



## vstolpner

bduckyy said:


> Do you have a link for the coupon? I see it for $50 on amazon.



Amazon.com just shows the coupon right on the page.

https://www.amazon.com/Bluetooth-Wireless-Headphones-Continuous-Earphones/dp/B07KW1TNSM


----------



## Alphasoixante

bduckyy said:


> Do you have a link for the coupon? I see it for $50 on amazon.


----------



## RobinFood (Jun 26, 2019)

FYLegend said:


> Did anyone get the YTOM T1 yet or know if it's been released under another name? They have AptX and charge with Type C and 46$ CAD.
> 
> It seems Oluv's Earfun Free has been delayed to July. I hope it's worth the wait as it seems the regular version's tuning has mixed impressions.
> 
> ...



It was a demo unit, but it was the 5.0 version. I never listen full volume, and AAC doesn't work with my gear, but on SBC it sounded great. It reminded me of the ety hf5, missing a little top end, but they sounded super clear. I didn't notice any distortion.


----------



## Caipirina

milkybrkid said:


> I don't know if these have been mentioned earlier in this thread or not but I've ordered a set of the following :- https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33034113339.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.16594c4dimA5E7
> 
> Seem fairly good specs at a decent price, I'll just have to wait for them to turn up to see how they sound.



Looks interesting .. but wondering if they are a bit big or the one reviewer has tiny ears


----------



## Caipirina

Alphasoixante said:


>



on amazon.de it is a 20% coupon instead ... which kinda comes out to being the same


----------



## Bartig

snip3r77 said:


> For sub $50 , most are running at around 5 hours ? I like good bass so it’s anbes 359?


Don't know about the Anbes, but the Tranya T3 is absolutely fantastic for bass lovers. 



Caipirina said:


> Today's 10$ bargain bin find on AliX: "NFUNGYK TWS 5.0 Bluetooth earphone 5D stereo with microphone wireless earphone sport waterproof" .... clocking in at 10.77 and with 7 positive reviews     seriously ... what's that 4D, 5D, 6D deal? And who signs off on those terrible photoshop jobs?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Don't! The JT-T2C, as these are called, are absolute crap in pairing.


----------



## Caipirina

Bartig said:


> Don't know about the Anbes, but the Tranya T3 is absolutely fantastic for bass lovers.
> 
> 
> Don't! The JT-T2C, as these are called, are absolute crap in pairing.



Thanks!!! After googling this, now I see those are all the same! Somehow I thought I had uncovered something new. Maybe differently shot new photograph ...


----------



## flamerz

Seems like there's a lot of hype on here for the sound quality of the Tranya T3. How does it compare to the Sennheiser Momentum True Wireless?


----------



## jant71

Seen a few reviews on the Bluedio Hi including some US orders. Anyone here take a flyer on them ?


----------



## snip3r77

Bartig said:


> Don't know about the Anbes, but the Tranya T3 is absolutely fantastic for bass lovers.
> 
> 
> Don't! The JT-T2C, as these are called, are absolute crap in pairing.


Is Tranya T3 just V shaped but not overblown bass?


----------



## vladzakhar

It's V shaped, but bass don't bleed into mids. Mids and highs are little recessed, though in my opinion. The Senns Momentums sound cleaner, separation is better, but the bass is not as deep as Tranya's bass.


----------



## tayo15

Whats the current best tws below $100?


----------



## actorlife (Jun 26, 2019)

Besides the Anbes 359. I also recommend these:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07MYZK9NT/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o08_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
or
https://www.amazon.com/【Upgraded-Cancelling-HonShoop-Lightweight-Headphones/dp/B07L9PJJX1/ref=sr_1_8?keywords=wireless+graphene&qid=1560868879&s=gateway&sr=8-8
Edit a bit less here:
https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https://www.ebay.com/ulk/itm/123801329855
Battery is about 5hrs on both.


----------



## vstolpner

actorlife said:


> Besides the Anbes 359. I also recommend these:
> https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07MYZK9NT/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o08_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
> or
> https://www.amazon.com/【Upgraded-Cancelling-HonShoop-Lightweight-Headphones/dp/B07L9PJJX1/ref=sr_1_8?keywords=wireless+graphene&qid=1560868879&s=gateway&sr=8-8



How are those Alterola IE600 for sound quality compared to the Anbes 359? And what's the size of that case?
They look really tiny in the photos...


----------



## actorlife

vstolpner said:


> How are those Alterola IE600 for sound quality compared to the Anbes 359? And what's the size of that case?
> They look really tiny in the photos...


HI VS, They sound fantastic for the price. Sparkly highs, clear upfront mids and controlled deep bass. The soundstage is not as big as the Anbes, but they still sound fantastic. The case is the smallest of all my tws. The hopshoop(also great SQ) case, which is the largest out of all the tws cases I have. I even have cases for my cases not to get scratched up in my bag. Not feeling well lately, but I hope to post some pics of all my TWS's soon.


----------



## vstolpner

Caipirina said:


> This is what I get for having all my orders collected at my 'maildrop' and then finally arrive and being overwhelmed by 10+ new TWE
> 
> So far I only did quick checks if they are all working (only the Sabbat E12 have a faulty right bud, seller wants a video to prove this and then will offer 'a solution')
> 
> ...



Any updates to your impressions? How do you find the Anbes 358, Syllable S101, 1more stylish stack up?
Don't recall if you picked up the Tranya T3 too?

What are your favorites so far and why?


----------



## Caipirina

vstolpner said:


> Any updates to your impressions? How do you find the Anbes 358, Syllable S101, 1more stylish stack up?
> Don't recall if you picked up the Tranya T3 too?
> 
> What are your favorites so far and why?



Sorry for just giving a quick impression ... the Tranya T3 were not in my original load, but thanks to speedy delivery by amazon, they are now leading the field   

As for the other 3, I really like the S101 ... while the Anbes / 1more failed to impress me so far, but I have not given them their fair shake yet ... 

But boy, those Tranya came out of nowhere and hit hard!


----------



## TYATYA

Above is audio adjustment I use on my B&O E8 2.0.
I just curious how much better sq if any, by aptx.
E8 does not support aptx but aac standard already did a good job. Well balance and detail


----------



## david8613

your making me curious about the tranya t3, are they really that good? because those recommended t8 were horrible imo, I still have butt hurt from those, I expected so much. I love my anbes 359 if the trahya t3 sound better I might pick them up, what the lowest you seen them go for?


----------



## actorlife (Jun 27, 2019)

david8613 said:


> your making me curious about the tranya t3, are they really that good? because those recommended t8 were horrible imo, I still have butt hurt from those, I expected so much. I love my anbes 359 if the trahya t3 sound better I might pick them up, what the lowest you seen them go for?



I'm curious about them too. Amazon has the lowest price, but only checked ebay and they were more expensive. If they go down to $30 I may bite. I doubt they are better than the Anbes though. I've had high hopes for other TWS and was so disappointed. I did manage to get some gems though that I really like. I still want a good implemented BA driver TWS, but not spending more than $30ish.




Anyone own these? Are the highs and bass good? For 20ish and 4hr battery it might be a cheap option: https://www.ebay.com/itm/Anomoibuds...603693?hash=item3b31aeb52d:g:Iw8AAOSwiNFc4XIf


----------



## JimmyR

Following up with the Tranya T3...can anyone of you owning them if they support AAC codec?

I asked this directly to the info email address of the vendor (this same question) and the only response I've got is that they support Bluetooth 5.0 and are compatible with iPhone and Android


----------



## Luchyres

Caipirina said:


> Sorry for just giving a quick impression ... the Tranya T3 were not in my original load, but thanks to speedy delivery by amazon, they are now leading the field
> 
> As for the other 3, I really like the S101 ... while the Anbes / 1more failed to impress me so far, but I have not given them their fair shake yet ...
> 
> But boy, those Tranya came out of nowhere and hit hard!



Thanks for sharing your impressions. 

I have the S101 and Anbes and I like them both - the S101 I've been using as my laptop headphones around the house - and for video calls. 

The Anbes I've paired with my phone and carry around - the two reasons it became the portable pair are the size of the case and the USB-C Charging. 

While I like the sound of both of them a lot, I do have some basshead tendencies and so my heart gets pumping a little faster any time anyone mentions more *un-muddied* bass. The Tranya T3 look appealing to me - but I really want to hold out for them to have USB-C or to get a slightly nicer pair with real ANC - like the upcoming Sony. 

I'd be curious to hear if the T3 beats out the S101 or Anbes for you consistently from a sq and call perspective - as then I may just pick them up in spite of my resistance. 

Thanks!


----------



## albau

What, it's mid 2019 and this Tranya T3 isn't USB-C???


----------



## vstolpner

actorlife said:


> I'm curious about them too. Amazon has the lowest price, but only checked ebay and they were more expensive. If they go down to $30 I may bite. I doubt they are better than the Anbes though. I've had high hopes for other TWS and was so disappointed. I did manage to get some gems though that I really like. I still want a good implemented BA driver TWS, but not spending more than $30ish.



Same here about the T3's.... Very tempted

Speaking of cheap BA's, have you seen these?
https://www.amazon.com/Bluetooth-Headphones-Sweatproof-Cancelling-Black/dp/B07NVDRLWL


----------



## nc8000

albau said:


> What, it's mid 2019 and this Tranya T3 isn't USB-C???



As most aren’t


----------



## actorlife

vstolpner said:


> Same here about the T3's.... Very tempted
> 
> Speaking of cheap BA's, have you seen these?
> https://www.amazon.com/Bluetooth-Headphones-Sweatproof-Cancelling-Black/dp/B07NVDRLWL


Yes I posted about them about two weeks ago. I don't really like the shape. The other BA(same brand) that was 20ish was sold out, but restocked and got a bad review, so the search goes on...


----------



## albau

nc8000 said:


> As most aren’t


Not exactly. If you look around on Amazon there're lots of even cheaper recent Chi-Fi units with USB-C.


----------



## vstolpner

actorlife said:


> Yes I posted about them about two weeks ago. I don't really like the shape. The other BA(same brand) that was 20ish was sold out, but restocked and got a bad review, so the search goes on...



Yeah I checked those out, asked the seller if they were BA - they're dynamic.... So good thing you skipped on them 

The shape of those is ok to me, but I'm thinking I want Knowles drivers for my BA's


----------



## vstolpner

albau said:


> Not exactly. If you look around on Amazon there're lots of even cheaper recent Chi-Fi units with USB-C.



I was going to say the same thing.... Anbes 359 are USB-C, but then brand new Astrotec Motivation's (i.e. S80's) that cost 3x more are microUSB.... I've heard it's a supply issue, but in 2019 I can't believe that's still the case


----------



## Alphasoixante

JimmyR said:


> Following up with the Tranya T3...can anyone of you owning them if they support AAC codec?



I have the T3s and my Galaxy S8+ dev. options shows the codec as AAC when in use.


----------



## Caipirina

david8613 said:


> your making me curious about the tranya t3, are they really that good? because those recommended t8 were horrible imo, I still have butt hurt from those, I expected so much. I love my anbes 359 if the trahya t3 sound better I might pick them up, what the lowest you seen them go for?



I feel I need to make it clear that while I might have been the first to post about those T8 here first, I never recommended them! There was some general speculation that they might be rebranded X12 .. biggest selling point was 'cheap' ... and that they are open back style 

That being said, mine actually arrived today and I have them in my ears right now ... and while not stellar, I don't find them 'butt hurt' bad ... for the 12$ I paid they are doing a decent job and deserve a spot in the ranks of emergency buds   (Great, the moment I say nice things about them, they have connection issues for no reason)


----------



## Caipirina (Jun 27, 2019)

actorlife said:


> I
> 
> Anyone own these? Are the highs and bass good? For 20ish and 4hr battery it might be a cheap option: https://www.ebay.com/itm/Anomoibuds...603693?hash=item3b31aeb52d:g:Iw8AAOSwiNFc4XIf



I bought them based on THIS recommendation (I have a feeling the author is on this board as well   )  ... and I like 'em quite some ... nice & compact and no complaints about the sound ... not a bass monster

But as the review says, totally in sync with youtube on my computer ... nice

It appears though, these guys need to be manually turned on / off ... which does not bug me, but might bug others (or I am doing something wrong)


----------



## david8613 (Jun 27, 2019)

sorry maybe I worded that wrong, you right you did not recommend, and yes many thought they were x12 clones that's why I brought them but yes they are bad sound wise for my type of music, dance, edm hip hop they did not sound great, way too midbass forward, cold and cuppy sounding. I kind of like slight v shape, slightly warm sound.


----------



## david8613

ok I broke down I brought the tranya t3, I read a couple of nice reviews, I said what the heck, I will play with these until sony release the newer wf1000x mk3. 2 things I like about them Is the very long battery life of the buds and case and also the volume adjustments on the buds. those are 2 huge requirements I need sound quality being first!.


----------



## Slater

I’ve never understood why people get so triggered about not having usb C.

I’d can’t imagine _not_ buying something I wanted because it didn’t have usb C. Big deal. I have one, count it, one usb C device. 

Everything else I own is micro usb and lighting. I’ve never cracked off a cable, never broken pins, never wrecked a socket. I mean, full size USB is still keyed with 1-direction only, and I don’t see people getting triggered about that.

Sure, I know there’s a convenience factor with usb C because you can plug it either way. But that’s about it.

It’s not like it’s used for data. It’s charge only.

Sure, I get that I could carry around ONE usb C cable and charge everything, but I can say the same thing about micro usb too. 95% of everything I own is micro usb and I carry around 1 cable.

If it’s really a concern, open up the TW charge case and change out the micro usb to a usb C. Or just attach a micro usb magnetic charge cable (which is even better than usb C), and then it won’t matter what direction it’s plugged in.

Maybe I’m missing something? If I am, please let me know how my life would be more complete if I was to convert everything from micro usb to usb C.


----------



## actorlife

Caipirina said:


> I bought them based on THIS recommendation (I have a feeling the author is on this board as well   )  ... and I like 'em quite some ... nice & compact and no complaints about the sound ... not a bass monster
> 
> But as the review says, totally in sync with youtube on my computer ... nice
> 
> It appears though, these guys need to be manually turned on / off ... which does not bug me, but might bug others (or I am doing something wrong)


Good read thanks. Do these have vol control? The highs are good sparkly eh? I'll think about it. How do you rank them?


----------



## vstolpner

Slater said:


> I’ve never understood why people get so triggered about not having usb C.
> 
> I’d can’t imagine _not_ buying something I wanted because it didn’t have usb C. Big deal. I have one, count it, one usb C device.
> 
> ...



For me it's the fact that I only want to carry around one cable and most of my stuff is Type C. iPads are Type C, even iPhones are moving to type c, and laptops are type c too. 
If you're going to buy something that's going to last a year or two, makes sense to future proof


----------



## nc8000

vstolpner said:


> For me it's the fact that I only want to carry around one cable and most of my stuff is Type C. iPads are Type C, even iPhones are moving to type c, and laptops are type c too.
> If you're going to buy something that's going to last a year or two, makes sense to future proof



The only device I have that is USB-C is the Sony 1000XM3, then I have several Lightning devices, several micro USB and several Sony WM port devices. I travel with one micro USB cable and 3 small adaptors to Lightning, USB-C and WM port, no problem at all. Can’t imagine having had to reject the majority of my wonderfull devices just because they don’t have USB-C


----------



## hifi80sman (Jun 27, 2019)

Slater said:


> Maybe I’m missing something? If I am, please let me know how my life would be more complete if I was to convert everything from micro usb to usb C.


For me, it's other people around me that try to jam the micro USB plugs in upside down.  If this happens again, you may see me on the news.

Semi-related, but I never really thought Qi charging was that cool, I was like, dude, just plug it in.  HOWEVER, I find that it's so nice for me to ask someone else, who I DON'T want to be playing with my cables, plugs, etc. to just plop the thing on the pad.  I have have so many darn things to charge that it's nice to have help!


----------



## david8613 (Jun 27, 2019)

I like usb c  simply because it is much easier to plug a device in the dark, and usually faster firmware updates and charging times, if a device is good, I don't care in the big scheme of things. I have a bunch of cables and chargers for all my junk.


----------



## FYLegend (Jun 27, 2019)

I agree about futureproofing and had the same thought when I first got a type C phone (Note 9) but if you wish to continue using the Lightning iPhone or older Android devices, USB type C is nothing. There is also the fact that less people are switching phones as they reach somewhat of an endgame. There's still no confirmation whether the next iPhone will be Type C or lightning. Only if it is do I see a larger incentive for OEMs to transition to Type C.

I don't mind paying 10-20$ more just for the option of a Type C connector, but at this time manufacturers seem to reason that transitioning to Type C is not viable economically. I've only seen Jabra make that transition with the 85h after saying it was too costly for the 65t, but they've yet to announce the next line of TWS. I can't think of any other reason why Astrotec went with microUSB for S80, for example.

At the same time, most of the "Type C" TWS are pretty misleading because they don't charge with PD Type C to C. It seems to be the result of a cheaper IC. I've only heard of Sony WH-1000XM3 supporting PD charging. It's not a huge issue for me since Samsung still uses Type C to Type A, but if you are using Google Pixel you'll still need to carry another power brick around. It therefore defeats the purpose of being truly "future proof". The only reasoning I can see is "I have a Samsung phone, I would like to use one Type C to A cable for everything..."

Adapters are an option, but are not readily available, since they are not compliant with USB-IF. I haven't seen them at major retailers, only some small accessory stores and Miniso. For charging they are fine but you are still using at your own risk. Mine also seems to cap the charging speed if I use it with my ADATA Wireless Charging pad. They may also get loose over time and protrude off the case which looks ugly and adds bulk. A microUSB cable with a swapable Type C cap is more viable in this regard.


hifi80sman said:


> For me, it's other people around me that try to jam the micro USB plugs in upside down.  If this happens again, you may see me on the news.
> 
> Semi-related, but I never really thought Qi charging was that cool, I was like, dude, just plug it in.  HOWEVER, I find that it's so nice for me to ask someone else, who I DON'T want to be playing with my cables, plugs, etc. to just plop the thing on the pad.  I have have so many darn things to charge that it's nice to have help!


Qi Charging is nice, but the 10W/5W speeds affect compatibility. Astrotec S60 sadly doesn't charge properly on a 10W charger, unless it has the ability to switch to 5W and doesn't have foreign object detection. It only works off my 10W Qi power bank, but charges ridiculously hot. I'm wondering about how the Sabbat E12 and Earfun Free would work. I'm told the E12 is designed for 5W chargers but still works with 10W.


----------



## albau

david8613 said:


> I like usb simply because it much easier to plug a device in the dark, and usually faster firmware updates and charging, if a device is good, I don't care in the big scheme of things. I have a bunch of cables and chargers for all my junk.


Similar. I guess it's different situations with different people. I'm for example simply don't have anything with micro-USB - only USB-C/Qi (even my car) and, unfortunately, lightning (for iPads). So dealing with another set of cables and/or adapters is just a nuisance which I'll try to avoid if I can help it. Especially with something like Chi-Fi which is dime a dozen.


----------



## bduckyy

For me, 


albau said:


> Similar. I guess it's different situations with different people. I'm for example simply don't have anything with micro-USB - only USB-C/Qi (even my car) and, unfortunately, lightning (for iPads). So dealing with another set of cables and/or adapters is just a nuisance which I'll try to avoid if I can help it. Especially with something like Chi-Fi which is dime a dozen.


Same here. Pretty much all my stuff is USB C. I don't need to get a new set of IEMs so I don't mind waiting for one that has USB-C.


----------



## FYLegend

albau said:


> Similar. I guess it's different situations with different people. I'm for example simply don't have anything with micro-USB - only USB-C/Qi (even my car) and, unfortunately, lightning (for iPads). So dealing with another set of cables and/or adapters is just a nuisance which I'll try to avoid if I can help it. Especially with something like Chi-Fi which is dime a dozen.


I honestly don't see Chi-Fi or budget accessories make that leap to Type C in the next 5 years if ever. I do find it put-off when a bigger brand like Jabra or Audio-Technica says "it's too costly".

I'm wondering how many people here actually use Type C to C regularly. I don't except for my Samsung T5 SSD.



RobinFood said:


> It was a demo unit, but it was the 5.0 version. I never listen full volume, and AAC doesn't work with my gear, but on SBC it sounded great. It reminded me of the ety hf5, missing a little top end, but they sounded super clear. I didn't notice any distortion.


That's similar to my impressions as well except for the distortion. Crabbos on PrimeAudio thought the SBC was pretty good on the BT4.2. It might be that my unit has defect as when I tried the store demo unit (which was also BT4.2) it had less hissing/clicking on the left bud but didn't get to test distortion extensively as I was troubleshooting AAC connectivity (which unfortunately was still occurring with the demo unit). The distortion is not terrible but once you listen to AAC it becomes apparent how much cleaner the sound can be.


----------



## actorlife

I don't care if it's USB-C or regular. I have over 5 TWS for a reason + most of them have enough juice for 5-8hrs, which of course is less than I want something inside my ears.


----------



## vstolpner

nc8000 said:


> The only device I have that is USB-C is the Sony 1000XM3, then I have several Lightning devices, several micro USB and several Sony WM port devices. I travel with one micro USB cable and 3 small adaptors to Lightning, USB-C and WM port, no problem at all. Can’t imagine having had to reject the majority of my wonderfull devices just because they don’t have USB-C



And I'm not saying I would reject something because it's not usb c, but it's really becoming a bigger factor. I don't mind if my TWS only last a couple hours play time, but others be them to last most of the day.

Also, I didn't care about usb c as much when I had most of my things on microUSB, but as I get closer to having everything on USB-C, it's becoming a bigger factor.


----------



## StSe

hifi80sman said:


> For me, it's other people around me that try to jam the micro USB plugs in upside down.  If this happens again, you may see me on the news.


Now that's really a valid reason. I also know some of these people ... 

As far as I'm concerned, I don't mind carrying an additional cable with me. The plug is separate anyways, so it's nothing I would think about too much. YMMV


----------



## d3myz (Jun 27, 2019)

I know there's been a lot of talk in this thread about APT-X, AAC and SBC, so hopefully this is a relevant post. A friend of mine sent me this article today and I just finished building my first Hackintosh running Mojave. I've been playing around with the settings and i'm happy to report that AAC does indeed sound much better than the default SBC codec. I haven't tried it with AptX as I don't think I own any TWS' that support it. Anyways, Hope this help someone, I really enjoy using the graph and getting to see my bit rates etc. I've also noticed that increasing the quality of AAC and SBC causes some cutouts on on my anbes 359's the signal all but failed. It's important to note when changing settings, you have to save and then turn bluetooth off on the mac, then back on . I'd be interested to hear from those who are using Real MacBooks as to what their experience is when adjusting the bit rates. Here's the Link and some screenshots.


----------



## Bartig

actorlife said:


> I'm curious about them too. Amazon has the lowest price, but only checked ebay and they were more expensive. If they go down to $30 I may bite. I doubt they are better than the Anbes though. I've had high hopes for other TWS and was so disappointed. I did manage to get some gems though that I really like. I still want a good implemented BA driver TWS, but not spending more than $30ish.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yes! The Anomoibuds Capsule are quite good for the price, just font expect any extraordinary sound quality.



JimmyR said:


> Following up with the Tranya T3...can anyone of you owning them if they support AAC codec?
> 
> I asked this directly to the info email address of the vendor (this same question) and the only response I've got is that they support Bluetooth 5.0 and are compatible with iPhone and Android


It said so on my Android device. Whether it's SBC or AAC, it sounds great and detailed on both iPhone and Android.



Caipirina said:


> I bought them based on THIS recommendation (I have a feeling the author is on this board as well   )  ... and I like 'em quite some ... nice & compact and no complaints about the sound ... not a bass monster
> 
> But as the review says, totally in sync with youtube on my computer ... nice
> 
> It appears though, these guys need to be manually turned on / off ... which does not bug me, but might bug others (or I am doing something wrong)


Thanks for sharing my article!  If the Anomoibuds don't automatically connect or disconnect when in or out of the charger, your charger may be empty. I never had problems.


----------



## david8613

Fooling around looking at all the new chi-fi and saw these aptx capable, no idea how they sound? Case looks nice and small, 6 hours use! Not bad

https://m.aliexpress.com/item/32976...d=7128amp--9UCGmPEoETPqnuw_ZwpLw1561675029802


----------



## vstolpner

david8613 said:


> Fooling around looking at all the new chi-fi and saw these aptx capable, no idea how they sound? Case looks nice and small, 6 hours use! Not bad
> 
> https://m.aliexpress.com/item/32976...d=7128amp--9UCGmPEoETPqnuw_ZwpLw1561675029802



Yeah I saw those before. Not sure what chip they use, but wonder if they're better than the S101's


----------



## FYLegend (Jun 27, 2019)

vstolpner said:


> Yeah I saw those before. Not sure what chip they use, but wonder if they're better than the S101's


There seems to be two variants of Wavefun Xpod 3, one with BA drivers the other with dynamic. I see QCC3020 in the listing with BA driver, the other one with Dynamic driver doesn't list the chip.  Someone here said Wavefun's tuning is off for their previous products which has me hanging. There's also a separate listing as YTOM T1 which is dynamic with 36 hour battery instead of 30.


----------



## vstolpner

FYLegend said:


> There seems to be two variants of Wavefun Xpod 3, one with BA drivers the other with dynamic. I see QCC3020 in the listing with BA driver, the other one with Dynamic driver doesn't list the chip.  Someone here said Wavefun's tuning is off for their previous products which has me hanging. There's also a separate listing as YTOM T1 which is dynamic with 36 hour battery instead of 30.



Where do you see BA? I only see dynamic drivers


----------



## FYLegend (Jun 27, 2019)

vstolpner said:


> Where do you see BA? I only see dynamic drivers


https://www.aliexpress.com/item/330...4.0&pvid=2b3f6237-0b67-4169-9eb0-09a8845b0a4e

Frequency response is 20-22000Hz vs 20-2000Hz of the dynamic version. I recall seeing a bundle discount but can't find it at the moment. A bit confused as there's a Wavefun OFFICIAL and Wavefun DIRECT store.

EDIT: It seems Wavefun Official has at least 3 listings with dynamic, but the frequency response is 22khz for two of them, and the other has button controls instead of touch.


----------



## vstolpner

FYLegend said:


> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/330...4.0&pvid=2b3f6237-0b67-4169-9eb0-09a8845b0a4e
> 
> Frequency response is 20-22000Hz vs 20-2000Hz of the dynamic version. I recall seeing a bundle discount but can't find it at the moment. A bit confused as there's a Wavefun OFFICIAL and Wavefun DIRECT store.



This is strange.... The official store has 4 listings for the XPods3, and they're all dynamic... While the direct store has 1 listing for dynamic and 3 for balanced armature.... Very strange....


----------



## flamerz

flamerz said:


> Seems like there's a lot of hype on here for the sound quality of the Tranya T3. How does it compare to the Sennheiser Momentum True Wireless?


I did a little research on my own and found this round up of reviews:

https://www.theguardian.com/technol...ng-jabra-sennheiser-anker-compared-and-ranked

Seems like the reviewer wasn't impressed by the Tranya T3's sound in comparison to some of the more expensive models.


----------



## david8613

I have a few ba driver wired head phones and honestly was not impressed. Bass not strong nor deep and highs were very sharp to my ears. I did not like at all.


----------



## vstolpner

david8613 said:


> I have a few ba driver wired head phones and honestly was not impressed. Bass not strong nor deep and highs were very sharp to my ears. I did not like at all.



BA's are great at reproducing clarity and detail in the mid and high frequencies but they do fall short on the lower end of the spectrum. That's why they're great in combination with dynamic drivers, or on their own for calls and podcasts.


----------



## chinmie

david8613 said:


> Fooling around looking at all the new chi-fi and saw these aptx capable, no idea how they sound? Case looks nice and small, 6 hours use! Not bad
> 
> https://m.aliexpress.com/item/32976...d=7128amp--9UCGmPEoETPqnuw_ZwpLw1561675029802



looks great and i also like the battery and button functions, though i still prefer clicky buttons than touch control. i don't like that eartips style however. usually normal eartips won't fit in the case. 

i think I'll pass for now. between my Nillkin Go, T1C, and X12 (with Earin and "now rarely used but still great sounding" wf-1000x), i think I'm good for now

i still have the TRN BT20S incoming though


----------



## actorlife (Aug 9, 2020)

OK folks here my just ok to best TWS. Enjoy.
X18S
4.2 BT Rolled off treble. Bass is good. Connecting is fine. No volume control and Battery about 3.5 hrs. For 13 bucks I can't complain.
*Edit due to change in SQ. *
Well this is a turnaround that I would never thought would happen. The X-18S have amazingly opened up and the treble is now beautiful sparkly.
After listening to an audiobook I notice a clearer SQ and decided to play my go to song I Was Wrong by Chris Stapleton and was blown away. The bass was always good, but now clearly pronounced. Holy crap. 4.2BT, 3.5 battery, connection is quite good although don't stray too far from source or breakup is heard and no volume control is the only let down, but for $13 they totally are enjoyable. Whoa what a great surprise. I now have 5 out of 6 that totally enjoy.

Syllable S101
5.0 BT Rolled off treble. There is no sparkly highs. No better SQ difference on my aptx Cayin N3, Bass is good, vol control, Massive Battery 7-8hrs and Connecting is fine. On my android phone only the left side works youtube, Netflix, etc. On my android box both sides L/R work. Yes weird. I had such high hopes. For $30 bucks I can complain and will. Maybe I got a bad batch although I doubt it.

Hoopshop W1
5.0 BT Graphene drivers, Sparkly highs, great tight bass, vol control and about 4hr battery and connection is good. $30 on ebay. Biggest case of all I own.

Funcl W1
5.0 BT Sparkly highs, great tight bass, about 4hr battery, No vol control and connection is good.
No breaks ups and might be the best TWS I own that let's you go 30ish feet without breaking up.
$25($49 on amazon) Indiegogo sale.

Alterola IE600
5.0 BT Sparkly highs, great tight bass, about 4hr battery, vol control and connection is good. Smallest case of all I own. $30 sale on amazon.

Anbes 359(Rare availability)/Kissral R18(Available) both are identical except for the logo.
5.0 The King of Budget TWS IMHO. Soundstage is large, fantastic sparkly highs, Great tight thumping bass, about 5hr battery, vol control and connection is great. Beautiful spaceship case. USB-C? Yes. Perfect for Music and Movies.  Rode my bike with the Anbes and Cayin n3 in my backpack and only cut off 2 times on the left bud when I turned my head. They also didn't fall off my sweaty ears. Also walked and no cut off. I'd say that's great IMHO. For the price $30($45 normal price) when on sale. I don't think they will EVER be dethroned.

Ofusho F16 The New King!
Testing the F16 on my tablet Sony Experia Z2 and it recognized aptx instantly whoa who knew.  I'm watching a movie on Prime video. It's crystal clear with dialog and has a nice soundstage with background sound just as clear. Dunno they kind of give you a surround sound type of effect. Holy moly I'm digging them so far.  Latency is great the Z2 sych is perfect on Prime/Netflix hooray. Connection is great no breakups. 50% volume. They protrude a bit out my ear. It's expected I have small ears.
The next day
Testing on my Cayin N3 music player with aptx on. Music is clear, although they are a tiny bit rolled off, but not enough for me to return them, yet. Bass is tight with a good deep rumble when needed and not boomy. Mids are a bit rolled off as well. I haven't tried other tips yet. I think with other tips they will bring more clear details, hopefully. Gotta say these are amazing with movies so darn clear. Gonna play music all day on them to see if they open up some and look for some tips. I really like them though and so far are a keeper. I'll return later tonight and give more thoughts.
Update next day
Highs are a bit more crispy after doing 18hrs of music on my Cayin N3 last night. I'm getting ((((9hrs)))) at 60% volume. I'm shocked. These are rated at 6-8hrs.  Doing another 18-24hrs of music burn-in today/tonight. These for sure are a keeper, especially for Movies and Music is fine I think they will open up even more. I did notice highs are better.
Final exciting thoughts
Last thoughts on the Ofusho F16
Hint F16 are the best TWS I own. The champ Anbes has been dethroned. Yesterday I noticed that the F16 had the small tips from factory, which I why I wasn't getting a great seal. I put on the medium tips and voila great seal. I played music overnight again. Went on a bike ride with them. Got one break up when I turned my head. Whoa that great. Before I left I turned down the bass two notches on my Cayin N3. Music sounds way better and crispy with drum cymbals. Played Presley's It Now or Never and it way crystal clear. With his background singers "The Jordanaires" sounding clear as well. Not sure if it was the burn-in or turning down the bass, but these are fantastic. I mean $35(sale) for aptx, phone charger, crystal clear highs, bumping Bass without fatigue and 9hr battery is amazing. Highly recommended for Music, Movies, audiobooks, etc. Congrats to Ofusho for making a great product without over charging consumers. Bravisimo.
 
A couple of cases to protect from scratches. Because of the shiny black coating on the Funcl and Alterola cases. The others are Matte and should be just fine.

The whole entire gang.

All are dynamic drivers, except the Hoopshop which is Graphene. Will edit with any new TWS. Whew. Happy listening.

Newly Added Aug 2020
Overview on Feych Tips.
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/goi...e-we-there-yet.861024/page-1630#post-15790666

FEYCH Premium Replacement Earbud Tips Memory Foam Earphone Tips https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07SKW5YMH/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_0RbmFb88V9DF4

Losei X12 overview:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/goi...e-we-there-yet.861024/page-1604#post-15770511

Tevi overview and more soon!


----------



## vstolpner

actorlife said:


> OK folks here my just ok to best TWS. Enjoy.
> X18S
> 4.2 BT Rolled off treble. Bass is good. Connecting is fine. No volume control and Battery about 3.5 hrs. For 13 bucks I can't complain.
> 
> ...



Thanks for the reviews! Very curious whether the Tranya T3 will dethrone the Anbes 359... Can't wait for someone with both to post some comparisons!

Do you mind to measure how thick the IE600 case is? And how is their SQ vs the 359?


----------



## clerkpalmer

Where art thou new Sony? Take my money!


----------



## actorlife (Jun 27, 2019)

vstolpner said:


> Thanks for the reviews! Very curious whether the Tranya T3 will dethrone the Anbes 359... Can't wait for someone with both to post some comparisons!
> 
> Do you mind to measure how thick the IE600 case is? And how is their SQ vs the 359?



Tall wise about an inch and a half
Length wise two inches.

IE sounds great, but does not have the big soundstage of the Anbes. I might take the Funcl W1 over the IE. Funcl dropped points cause no vol control. For the $25($49 on amazon) Indiegogo sale they cost me I think the SQ is up there with the Anbes. Its the soundstage that kills the funcl, but still the top 4 are fantastic in their own way cause none were trimmed in the treble area. I likes my clarity, but not harsh highs. Hope this helps.


----------



## vstolpner

actorlife said:


> Tall wise about an inch and a half
> Length wise two inches.
> 
> IE sounds great, but does not have the big soundstage of the Anbes. I might take the Funcl W1 over the IE. Funcl dropped points cause no vol control. For the $25($49 on amazon) Indiegogo sale they cost me I think the SQ is up there with the Anbes. Its the soundstage that kills the funcl, but still the top 4 are fantastic in their own way cause none were trimmed in the treble area. I likes my clarity, but not harsh highs. Hope this helps.



I meant the thickness of the case.... Whether it would stick out to much in the front pocket (like say the QCY T1C), or be fairly hidden (like AirPods). Even comparatively to the thickness of the Anbes...


----------



## actorlife

vstolpner said:


> I meant the thickness of the case.... Whether it would stick out to much in the front pocket (like say the QCY T1C), or be fairly hidden (like AirPods). Even comparatively to the thickness of the Anbes...


It's really thin. Wide wise just barely an inch. I put my mine in another case to keep it from getting scratched up. I also have the Funcl in a case. They'd fit in a front pocket easily, but keep mine in my bag. I'd hate that if I bumped into anything they'd get ruined. I'm just cautious.


----------



## vstolpner

Thanks! 
I only bother being careful with my mifo O5... The Anbes could get all scratched and I wouldn't really care TBH. Just part of the character, plus the case really increases their size.

That said my phone is in a case and with a screen protector.


----------



## snip3r77

vstolpner said:


> Thanks for the reviews! Very curious whether the Tranya T3 will dethrone the Anbes 359... Can't wait for someone with both to post some comparisons!
> 
> Do you mind to measure how thick the IE600 case is? And how is their SQ vs the 359?



T3 or 359??


----------



## vstolpner

snip3r77 said:


> T3 or 359??



Want to know how T3 compares to 359 - wondering if it's an "upgrade" in SQ, and if it's worthwhile.

Also, finally figured out the fit for my Astrec S80's (Motivation), so really enjoying the SQ there too. Of course with the tips that actually fit comfortably, the earphones don't charge and case doesn't close :/


----------



## Bartig

vstolpner said:


> Thanks for the reviews! Very curious whether the Tranya T3 will dethrone the Anbes 359... Can't wait for someone with both to post some comparisons!
> 
> Do you mind to measure how thick the IE600 case is? And how is their SQ vs the 359?


Have the Anbes on order (finally), will see if they kill my beloved T3. 

Because the design of the buds is so similar, I have the feeling the Anbes may actually sound like the Mpow T6 - but of course that doesn't have to be the case. They all look a like.


----------



## chinmie

vstolpner said:


> BA's are great at reproducing clarity and detail in the mid and high frequencies but they do fall short on the lower end of the spectrum. That's why they're great in combination with dynamic drivers, or on their own for calls and podcasts.



BA usually sounds faster on the decay of the notes than the DD, but the Nillkin's bass mids and treble resolution sounds clearer and more "BA" than my true BA Earin M2. the Earin sounds warmer and slower in comparison.


----------



## FYLegend

vstolpner said:


> This is strange.... The official store has 4 listings for the XPods3, and they're all dynamic... While the direct store has 1 listing for dynamic and 3 for balanced armature.... Very strange....


I asked Wavefun Official about it - they said all their listings of Xpods 3 are the exact same product. I also asked Wavefun Direct about the BA listing but they didn't provide any helpful information except "True wireless stereo plus technology can offer more evenly balanced power distribution between both earbuds resulting in longer playback time.
it means that the small power consumed by the headphones.
The power consumption is less than 6mA"

This suggests the balanced armature listing is probably a misinterpretation.


----------



## vstolpner

FYLegend said:


> This suggests the balanced armature listing is probably a misinterpretation.



Unfortunately I was long of expecting that. I think quite a few of the balanced armature listings on AliExpress in general are in fact dynamic driver. Just take a look at the results when you filter by "vocalism principle: balanced armature"


----------



## mikp (Jun 28, 2019)

FYLegend said:


> I asked Wavefun Official about it - they said all their listings of Xpods 3 are the exact same product. I also asked Wavefun Direct about the BA listing but they didn't provide any helpful information except "True wireless stereo plus technology can offer more evenly balanced power distribution between both earbuds resulting in longer playback time.
> it means that the small power consumed by the headphones.
> The power consumption is less than 6mA"
> 
> This suggests the balanced armature listing is probably a misinterpretation.



Isn't the xpods same as these
YTOM T1 TWS True Wireless Bluetooth 5.0 Earphone Support AptX HD ACC CVC8 Noise-Cancellation With super bass mic headset earbuds

https://s.click.aliexpress.com/e/Z7AiXuk
Seems to use very short tips, so could be an issue there


----------



## snip3r77

Bartig said:


> Have the Anbes on order (finally), will see if they kill my beloved T3.
> 
> Because the design of the buds is so similar, I have the feeling the Anbes may actually sound like the Mpow T6 - but of course that doesn't have to be the case. They all look a like.


 Setting up my camp. Thanks


----------



## snip3r77

Bartig said:


> Have the Anbes on order (finally), will see if they kill my beloved T3.
> 
> Because the design of the buds is so similar, I have the feeling the Anbes may actually sound like the Mpow T6 - but of course that doesn't have to be the case. They all look a like.


 Setting up my camp. Thanks


----------



## DDDYKI (Jun 28, 2019)

Jays has announced their m-Seven TW: 9.5 hour battery life, 38 with the case; BT5; IPX5; $129 USD. No info on BT codecs, though. https://www.jaysheadphones.com/products/m-seven-true-wireless


----------



## nc8000

DDDYKI said:


> Jays has announced their m-Seven TW: 9.5 hour battery life, 38 with the case; BT5; IPX5; $129 USD. No info on BT codecs, though. https://www.jaysheadphones.com/products/m-seven-true-wireless



Another one that appears to have no ambient mode and no app and no over air fw upgrades just like the Cambridge Audio


----------



## david8613

my t3 will be in tomorrow and I own the anbes 359, its one of my favs, and go to tw. we will see how good the t3 are. I am seeing some pics of them in ear and they look kind of large, I hope they used small stature models for pics, because I have extra large tw. I am a big guy so hopefully I am good!


----------



## Caipirina (Jun 28, 2019)

Caipirina said:


> my t3 will be in tomorrow and I own the anbes 359, its one of my favs, and go to tw. we will see how good the t3 are. I am seeing some pics of them in ear and they look kind of large, I hope they used small stature models for pics, because I have extra large tw. I am a big guy so hopefully I am good!



The Tranya sure are bigger than the Anbes, but they keep nicely in my ears, must have run like 30Mi with them by now ...
 
I must be doing something wrong with the Anbes, as I keep being 'not wowed' ... I guess I need to try some more tips ... somehow I can't jam them into my ears / get a great seal as I would like to ... any special tip recommendations? Preferably something that can still fit in the case?


----------



## TYATYA

B&O E8 v2 has best sq of all twe I've heard.
Just one audio flaw somehow is strange noise generated. It happen rarely and c'measure is just to put it back on the case for 3 seconds. 

I don't get in use my ibasso it01s (+ cb12s cable) after I get E8 v2 (is there any sq different from v1?).
At the time I met E8 in my pocket have ak120ii and it0s1 on cb12s balance cable. After few minute compare I am really impressed by E8.
Low end and highs extend even better than the wired inear it01s! Also it did not have a bit V shape like it01s has.

Best sq of E8 is when pair with ak120ii. 
Ak120ii > galaxy note8 > Sp1000.
It is crazy? 
Some one will start to say when bluetooth is used, all sq relate only to the inear unit.....


----------



## nc8000 (Jun 28, 2019)

TYATYA said:


> B&O E8 v2 has best sq of all twe I've heard.
> Just one audio flaw somehow is strange noise generated. It happen rarely and c'measure is just to put it back on the case for 3 seconds.
> 
> I don't get in use my ibasso it01s (+ cb12s cable) after I get E8 v2 (is there any sq different from v1?).
> ...



Are the 3 devices using the same codecs and bit rate ?

Do you have any left unit drop outs ?


----------



## BigZ12

Caipirina said:


> The Tranya sure are bigger than the Anbes, but they keep nicely in my ears, must have run like 30Mi with them by now ...
> 
> I must be doing something wrong with the Anbes, as I keep being 'not wowed' ... I guess I need to try some more tips ... somehow I can't jam them into my ears / get a great seal as I would like to ... any special tip recommendations? Preferably something that can still fit in the case?


It's "dangerous" to recommend tips for others, but I really love my Anbes 359 with Comply Truegrip Pro tips. 
Just been out on a long walk, with some running (in the shadows  ) and wow! How good are these buds!?!. Soundstage, fit/comfort, bass etc... Maybe the best "gadget" I've bought, value for money wise.

On a side note: I've connected both the QCY T2C and Anbes with my Apple Watch 4G, and both can get out of phase when using the watch crown to adjust the volume. Strange, but luckily I know why they get out of phase. Just adjust it again with the buds (Anbes) or on the watch screen.


----------



## vstolpner

Caipirina said:


> The Tranya sure are bigger than the Anbes, but they keep nicely in my ears, must have run like 30Mi with them by now ...
> 
> I must be doing something wrong with the Anbes, as I keep being 'not wowed' ... I guess I need to try some more tips ... somehow I can't jam them into my ears / get a great seal as I would like to ... any special tip recommendations? Preferably something that can still fit in the case?



Make sure you're on AAC... I had the same thing when my switched me over to SBC


----------



## TYATYA (Jun 28, 2019)

nc8000 said:


> Are the 3 devices using the same codecs and bit rate ?
> 
> Do you have any left unit drop outs ?


Ak120ii is not sure.
Sp1000 is upto aptxhd,
Smartphone support multi (aptx, ldac, aac...).

E8 support only sbc & aac.
Which (sbc or aac) E8 will active on each daps is unknow. When pair with my smartphone, I verified it was aac mode(by accessing to delvelopment  setting of device).

No sound drops on L side on my unit. 
Relate to this, how much distance at which connectiin of L (slave) to the R(master) will be lost? Mine is apprx. 30cm, much bigger than human head size.


----------



## chinmie

TYATYA said:


> B&O E8 v2 has best sq of all twe I've heard.
> Just one audio flaw somehow is strange noise generated. It happen rarely and c'measure is just to put it back on the case for 3 seconds.
> 
> I don't get in use my ibasso it01s (+ cb12s cable) after I get E8 v2 (is there any sq different from v1?).
> ...



if using AAC, on my phone (Note 8, BT 5 compatible), and my tablet (Tab S2, BT 4), i also hear difference between the two, with the Note 8 sounding better. also with the QCY T1C, watching Youtube on my tablet, i can hear faint beeping sound that is audible even if i turn the volume off, but that beeping noise would go away if i stop the video.
no audible beeping noise on my Note 8

with APTX, there's no difference between the Note 8 and Tab S2, other than shortened distance that i can walk away before the sound cut off. 

so i think AAC would differ in sound between devices and between BT versions


----------



## TYATYA

chinmie said:


> if using AAC, on my phone (Note 8, BT 5 compatible), and my tablet (Tab S2, BT 4), i also hear difference between the two, with the Note 8 sounding better. also with the QCY T1C, watching Youtube on my tablet, i can hear faint beeping sound that is audible even if i turn the volume off, but that beeping noise would go away if i stop the video.
> no audible beeping noise on my Note 8
> 
> with APTX, there's no difference between the Note 8 and Tab S2, other than shortened distance that i can walk away before the sound cut off.
> ...



On E8, sbc and aac did a sublte difference. I need more time with E8 on this term.
On shalling M0( or 1 is not remember now, I dont own it) dap, sbc is much difference from aptx.
(That dap is 2ways bluetooth. Note8 -> M0->wired inear).
By changing code on Note8 I found that.

One thing is sure that ak120ii has not got higher blutooth spec than note8, and, Note8 was verified connected to E8 in aac mode - best potential. 
But ak120ii did really good job. 
E8 tunning app setting is memory by E8 itself, so I set to off before comparing


----------



## clerkpalmer

*Any differences between original e8 and 2.0 in terms of sq?*


----------



## Caipirina

vstolpner said:


> Make sure you're on AAC... I had the same thing when my switched me over to SBC


How would I do that on iPhone?  
Ignoramus Maximus


----------



## actorlife (Jun 28, 2019)

My pleasure guys. I'm not sure if I'll get the T3. I'll wait for more user reviews on this thread and if the price goes down to $30-35 US I may pick em up.


----------



## vstolpner

Caipirina said:


> How would I do that on iPhone?
> Ignoramus Maximus



Well you go to the store, and tell the sales person that you're ready for a real phone, and ask to see their Android phone selection.


----------



## vladzakhar

Caipirina said:


> How would I do that on iPhone?
> Ignoramus Maximus


Iphone uses AAC bluetooth decoding by default , if you use AAC encoded files, not sure about mp3's.


----------



## actorlife

I apologize but I haven't had the chance to listen to these yet. I have to go pick them up hopefully this weekend. That's why no review on them yet. They seem to be sold out. Pay no mind to the user reviews on there for some reason Amazon has mixed up reviews from other stuff they sell. Happens alot actually :
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07STZX8BM/ref=cm_sw_r_sms_apa_i_xJLfDbA90AZJ8


----------



## nc8000

clerkpalmer said:


> *Any differences between original e8 and 2.0 in terms of sq?*



They are supposed to be identical except for the case


----------



## FYLegend (Jun 28, 2019)

mikp said:


> Isn't the xpods same as these
> YTOM T1 TWS True Wireless Bluetooth 5.0 Earphone Support AptX HD ACC CVC8 Noise-Cancellation With super bass mic headset earbuds
> 
> https://s.click.aliexpress.com/e/Z7AiXuk
> Seems to use very short tips, so could be an issue there


Yeah, but this one claims to have 36 hour battery vs 30 hours of the Xpods. On Amazon it is listed as Lyperkin T1-APTX with only 24hr battery at 60% volume. The promo image for both only say 24h.

Also, the Earfun Free Oluv edition is shipping July 15


----------



## mikp

FYLegend said:


> Yeah, but this one claims to have 36 hour battery vs 30 hours of the Xpods. On Amazon it is listed as Lyperkin T1-APTX with only 24hr battery at 60% volume. The promo image for both only say 24h.
> 
> Also, the Earfun Free Oluv edition is shipping July 15




well, heres the alibaba listing 

https://www.alibaba.com/product-det...alleryofferlist.normalList.101.3c2b749dPLCr1k


----------



## bduckyy

Caipirina said:


> The Tranya sure are bigger than the Anbes, but they keep nicely in my ears, must have run like 30Mi with them by now ...


You're the man! I was looking for a photo comparison of the two. I was already leaning towards the 359 but the t3 was temping because it was actually in stock on amazon. How's the usability between the two? Any random lags or disconnects? And hows is the battery life and controls between the two?


----------



## Caipirina

vladzakhar said:


> Iphone uses AAC bluetooth decoding by default , if you use AAC encoded files, not sure about mp3's.


hmm .. I am playing flac files using an app called Vox   ... mixing things up


----------



## Caipirina

bduckyy said:


> You're the man! I was looking for a photo comparison of the two. I was already leaning towards the 359 but the t3 was temping because it was actually in stock on amazon. How's the usability between the two? Any random lags or disconnects? And hows is the battery life and controls between the two?



Can't say much about battery life as I have not done any duration tests. Usability, somehow I manage to take the Anbes out of they UFO box a bit clumsily and the wrong way around, but that's probably just me, does not feel as intuitive as the Tranya. Usually I am not using buttons much other than the occasional play/ pause, but I was positively surprised when I found that on Tranya, double press right = vol up, and left is down ... tripple press summons siri ... 

Just did a lag test on the Tranya and am happy to report that I had no issues with VLC from computer but youtube on phone has some lag. but that could also be my wonky connection ... 
Just get them from amazon and return if you don't like them


----------



## actorlife (Jun 28, 2019)

If I were you bduckyy I'd buy both from Amazon and return the one you disliked. I did that with the Alterola and a unknown brand that looked exactly like the Alterola and returned the unknown brand after a couple of days.
These are them. Warning stay away. Muddy and no highs:
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07H3NRKYT/ref=cm_sw_r_sms_apa_i_zPMfDb98QS32R
Interesting Graphene Driver and in pic says balanced Amature. 5hr battery. Wrote the seller to see what gives:
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07RXWMYZM/ref=cm_sw_r_sms_apa_i_QpNfDbJPJ43CA


----------



## hifi80sman

clerkpalmer said:


> Where art thou new Sony? Take my money!


They just dropped a new full-sized XB headphone.  I was looking around and it was like, BAM, here you go.  Just based on observation, they seem to just drop things quietly and all of a sudden you'll see it.  Looks like Sony has fully migrated to USB-C on all their new stuff.

https://www.sony.com/electronics/headband-headphones/wh-xb900n


----------



## JimmyR

Caipirina said:


> Can't say much about battery life as I have not done any duration tests. Usability, somehow I manage to take the Anbes out of they UFO box a bit clumsily and the wrong way around, but that's probably just me, does not feel as intuitive as the Tranya. Usually I am not using buttons much other than the occasional play/ pause, but I was positively surprised when I found that on Tranya, double press right = vol up, and left is down ... tripple press summons siri ...
> 
> Just did a lag test on the Tranya and am happy to report that I had no issues with VLC from computer but youtube on phone has some lag. but that could also be my wonky connection ...
> Just get them from amazon and return if you don't like them



I’m curious about on which one pressing buttons is nicer? I’ve heard that none of them are especially good in that department as both are a bit stiff and need a somehow hard press... but I wonder which one is less bad. May u tell?


----------



## hifi80sman

Update on Jlab JBuds Air Executive:

Decided to keep them.  I returned the 1st unit I received and got a new one.  There is still driver flex "crinkle" sound, but there loud "clu-clunk" sound has largely disappeared.  Keep in mind, the stronger the seal, obviously, the stronger the suction.  I usually roll with the larger tips to create the effing highest vacuum seal known to man, but YMMV.

Here's what I found after spending a few days with them:

-  Ambient feature works well and is uncommon at this price point.  Used it a few times at the gym when people feel the need to chat instead of workout.  I don't want to hear about your new Tesla.  Great, doesn't pollute, nice...can I work out now?
- AAC on iPhone/Spotify combo works well, especially the Spotify built-in EQ.  Taming the highs does the trick and the sound is quite nice.  Keep in mind, highs are very "crispy", but if you enjoy a bright signature, you'll feel right at home.
- Don't really care about the built in EQ modes.  Gimmicky, but doesn't take away from anything.
- Battery is good and right about where they advertise.
- Call quality is really solid and functional for the office, whereas most are not.
- Touch controls are responsive.  Although not as intuitive as I would like, I've gotten used to them and it's not a problem.

For $69, the combination of features and sound are hard to beat.  Strong in areas where most in the price range aren't (calls, ambient mode).


----------



## Caipirina (Jun 28, 2019)

JimmyR said:


> I’m curious about on which one pressing buttons is nicer? I’ve heard that none of them are especially good in that department as both are a bit stiff and need a somehow hard press... but I wonder which one is less bad. May u tell?



Did not perceive either as 'bad', but I noticed that the Anbes, maybe because they are smaller, receive way more accidental button presses from me when I try to jam the buds in or adjust their position later


----------



## Caipirina

Bartig said:


> Nice finds, especially the ‘Chromebuds’ and the last one. From what I've learned the hard way though, it's best not to get generic brand less items...



Well, so much for the ChromeBuds ... 





yea, another 30$ saved ... 

i was actually looking forward to those ..


----------



## actorlife

Caipirina said:


> Well, so much for the ChromeBuds ...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Dang those looked cool. I mostly like black, but those chrome look cool. I also wanted a pair in dark blue. Too bad not too many option color wise with great sq and a $30 or lower price TWS. Good on the seller for being honest.


----------



## Caipirina (Jun 28, 2019)

actorlife said:


> Dang those looked cool. I mostly like black, but those chrome look cool. I also wanted a pair in dark blue. Too bad not too many option color wise with great sq and a $30 or lower price TWS. Good on the seller for being honest.



The Blitzwolf FYE5 come in a nice shade of blue ... and I kinda like 'em .. not totally blown away, but the (also blue) charging box is tiny.



Just tried my 'theme of expanse' new test track on them .. and they sound actually better than I recalled ... also found a working tip combination (L on left and M on right, of the tips that came with them ... other tips fit and are nice, but then the buds don't fit the case anymore ) ... TBH, i like them better than the Anbes that everyone seems so madly in love with


----------



## jant71

So, I wonder...





Why are there no TW with a small pendant control like the Sony ring control in the pic or the older minidisc... 




Touch controls getting wonky when sweat on, uncomfortable button push jamming the buds into the ear, digging under hats/hoods/scarves to get at the TW controls, holding buttons for 3 seconds or pressing a button 3 times cause there is not room for multiple buttons to make the control scheme easier etc. With all the annoyances why no small remote shirt/tie clip or pendant or ring or whatever??


----------



## Caipirina

found something again   and before I blindly order, I am asking the humble hive mind ... have you ever heard of a TWS W5S? On amazon I find it as UMI brand (and has a 10€ off coupon) ... unbranded they are also on AliX ... anyone has / had them?


----------



## FYLegend

mikp said:


> well, heres the alibaba listing
> 
> https://www.alibaba.com/product-det...alleryofferlist.normalList.101.3c2b749dPLCr1k



Hmm, no combined battery life rating given or what connector is used, although the YTOM definitely uses Type C.

Their light-up spaceship TWS by them looks really cool, but no info on charging port or codecs.
https://hutmtech.en.alibaba.com/pro...pm=a2700.details.pronpeci14.26.3db53f59Bb8ivs

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32983290872.html

57$ on Amazon Canada:
https://www.amazon.ca/HUANSI-Headph...LUETOOTH+5.0&qid=1561750678&s=gateway&sr=8-13


hifi80sman said:


> They just dropped a new full-sized XB headphone.  I was looking around and it was like, BAM, here you go.  Just based on observation, they seem to just drop things quietly and all of a sudden you'll see it.  Looks like Sony has fully migrated to USB-C on all their new stuff.
> 
> https://www.sony.com/electronics/headband-headphones/wh-xb900n


No BT 5.0 though...

I was looking for a Type-C charging budget alternative to the 1000XM3 but didn't have much luck. Femperna has a Type C BT5.0 headphone but it uses the Type C port to output to both 3.5mm or to charge which restricts cable replacability. I hope Audio-Technica follows suit but doubt it (in some ways, they are like the Nintendo/Canon of audio...)


----------



## vstolpner (Jun 28, 2019)

https://gizmodo.com/the-zippo-case-klipsch-earbuds-actually-sound-pretty-da-1835852736

https://www.pcmag.com/review/369182/klipsch-t5-true-wireless

More reviews for the Klipsch T5 earbuds coming out. Seems like they sound pretty good. Would be interesting to see how they compare to Chi-Fi earbuds


----------



## flamerz

hifi80sman said:


> Depends what your tastes are.  If you want a clean & balanced sound, great low-profile fit, good mic, competent touch controls, Qi charging & USB C, I'd recommend the Samsung Galaxy Buds.  Soundstage and imaging are way better than I expected.  They retail for $129, but I got mine for $103 with a 20% coupon from Fry's Electronics (although you do have to spend $199 or more in total purchases).  There also have been a few sales around $97-$99.
> 
> The Anbes 359 are very good, especially for the price (around $30 or so).  Bass is big, but a nice, soft, round, deep bass (yes, I'm aware of how that sounds!).  Highs a bit rolled off, but still articulate and a smooth listen.  Good gym 'buds because you can crank them a bit without piercing a hold in your eardrums.  For sitting at a desk, however, I'd pick the Galaxy buds.
> 
> If you're into bass, the Anbes 359 are a great choice, but if you want a more well-rounded option in this price range, the Galaxy Buds are hard to beat.


How do the Buds compare to other ones you've tried in terms of detail, separation, and range of frequency? I've read some high praise on their sound quality, but it seems like the Samsung name might have encouraged electronics writers who might not have a good ear to write reviews.


----------



## chinmie

actorlife said:


> Dang those looked cool. I mostly like black, but those chrome look cool. I also wanted a pair in dark blue. Too bad not too many option color wise with great sq and a $30 or lower price TWS. Good on the seller for being honest.



give the Nillkin Go a try then. only comes in black and red though


----------



## AnakChan

So I now have a Fostex TM2 along with FitEar adapters for review.


I had previously demo-ed them briefly at the Fujiya Spring Headphone Festival back in late April.
 
I’ll write up a full review when I’ve given them a listen.


----------



## Slater

AnakChan said:


> So I now have a Fostex TM2 along with FitEar adapters for review.
> 
> 
> I had previously demo-ed them briefly at the Fujiya Spring Headphone Festival back in late April.
> ...



Anxiously waiting 

BTW, do the ear hooks have a memory wire in them that allows one to bend them to fit? Or are the pre molded and 'spring' back to their original position?


----------



## chinmie

AnakChan said:


> So I now have a Fostex TM2 along with FitEar adapters for review.
> 
> 
> I had previously demo-ed them briefly at the Fujiya Spring Headphone Festival back in late April.
> ...



nice! do you have the BT20 too for comparison?


----------



## clerkpalmer

Waiting with baited breath in the fostex review.


----------



## AnakChan

Slater said:


> BTW, do the ear hooks have a memory wire in them that allows one to bend them to fit? Or are the pre molded and 'spring' back to their original position?



Actually I can't remember! I will have to open up the box and will have to give it a shot. A little busy at the moment to do an unboxing. From my demo back in April, I -think- it was flexible 'cos I seem to recall playing around with it to fit it around my glasses.



chinmie said:


> nice! do you have the BT20 too for comparison?



I don't. I'm not even familiar with the BT20 and will have to read that up.

For some reason I thought I posted pix of the TM2 from the April show to Head-Fi but I guess I didn't and put it up on Facebook or Twitter instead. Here are more pix of the TM2 from  back in April :-


----------



## snip3r77

Caipirina said:


> Can't say much about battery life as I have not done any duration tests. Usability, somehow I manage to take the Anbes out of they UFO box a bit clumsily and the wrong way around, but that's probably just me, does not feel as intuitive as the Tranya. Usually I am not using buttons much other than the occasional play/ pause, but I was positively surprised when I found that on Tranya, double press right = vol up, and left is down ... tripple press summons siri ...
> 
> Just did a lag test on the Tranya and am happy to report that I had no issues with VLC from computer but youtube on phone has some lag. but that could also be my wonky connection ...
> Just get them from amazon and return if you don't like them


Which mic is better?
What about sq


----------



## Slater (Jun 28, 2019)

AnakChan said:


> I don't. I'm not even familiar with the BT20 and will have to read that up.



Cool, thanks for the updated photos and info. No rush about the ear hooks; I was just curious.

BTW, the BT20 is made by TRN, and available in mmcx or 2-pin. They just released a new revision of it (BT20S), that adds aptX, nano coating, and some other features (I think longer battery life etc maybe).


----------



## tomscy2000

I like the Cambridge Audio Melomania 1 a lot. It's got a simple interface, and the Bluetooth pairing stability is good. The sound is really well balanced, non-peaky, nicely extended on both ends, and vocally present.

The sound is sublime at its price point, I find it much better than the Bang & Olufsen E8 2.0, which is very strident in the treble. It's much smaller than the Sennheiser Momentum True Wireless, and I much prefer its sound signature. I also tested the Astrotec S80 on the same day; I hated its finicky touch controls, and while the SQ was decent, it had a much more typical, thicker bass presentation.

I didn't get to test out the call quality, but a possible drawback is the microphone, as Vlad Savov at The Verge says it's crummy.

If my wife didn't already have the Nuarl NT01B, I'd get a pair for her. If I didn't already preorder the NuraLoop, I'd get myself a pair.


----------



## clerkpalmer

tomscy2000 said:


> I like the Cambridge Audio Melomania 1 a lot. It's got a simple interface, and the Bluetooth pairing stability is good. The sound is really well balanced, non-peaky, nicely extended on both ends, and vocally present.
> 
> The sound is sublime at its price point, I find it much better than the Bang & Olufsen E8 2.0, which is very strident in the treble. It's much smaller than the Sennheiser Momentum True Wireless, and I much prefer its sound signature. I also tested the Astrotec S80 on the same day; I hated its finicky touch controls, and while the SQ was decent, it had a much more typical, thicker bass presentation.
> 
> ...


They are smaller than the mtw?


----------



## Caipirina

snip3r77 said:


> Which mic is better?
> What about sq


Can’t say anything about mic, as I detest phone calls! (I buy all my IEMs mic-less)

The tranya is a v shape with heavy bass. I find the Anbes kinda ‘whispy’  V-shape light. Dunno how to better describe. But ppl with different seal might have different results


----------



## snip3r77

Caipirina said:


> Can’t say anything about mic, as I detest phone calls! (I buy all my IEMs mic-less)
> 
> The tranya is a v shape with heavy bass. I find the Anbes kinda ‘whispy’  V-shape light. Dunno how to better describe. But ppl with different seal might have different results



So anbes is more balanced v shaped while the other is bass head ?


----------



## tomscy2000

clerkpalmer said:


> They are smaller than the mtw?



Way smaller. They're some of the smallest TWS earphones I've encountered. They do stick out Frankenstein style, but they're decently comfortable --- might not be great for sports and gym use though.


----------



## dondonut

I took a tumble while biking and lost one of my qcy qs1, only have the left one now 

You guys reckon if I get the qs1 again I can keep this left one as spare in case I lose the left one of the new set? Or wouldn't a right one from a new set and a left one from an old set pair?

Considering to get the qs2 for a for the extra battery life and lid for protection. I did like the ease of putting the qs1 in and taking them out of their case though and didn't really have issues yet with the case running out of juice so might as well go with the qs1 for cheaps. I really did like this twe style so I'm for sure getting either the qs1 or qs2 I think. Opinions and other suggestions?


----------



## assassin10000

dondonut said:


> I took a tumble while biking and lost one of my qcy qs1, only have the left one now
> 
> You guys reckon if I get the qs1 again I can keep this left one as spare in case I lose the left one of the new set? Or wouldn't a right one from a new set and a left one from an old set pair?
> 
> Considering to get the qs2 for a for the extra battery life and lid for protection. I did like the ease of putting the qs1 in and taking them out of their case though and didn't really have issues yet with the case running out of juice so might as well go with the qs1 for cheaps. I really did like this twe style so I'm for sure getting either the qs1 or qs2 I think. Opinions and other suggestions?



It should pair, just have to do the reset and re-pair the old left and new right together.


----------



## dondonut

assassin10000 said:


> It should pair, just have to do the reset and re-pair the old left and new right together.



You reckon the qs1 and qs2 will pair as well?


----------



## assassin10000

dondonut said:


> You reckon the qs1 and qs2 will pair as well?



I'd check with qcy, supposedly the only difference was the charge case iirc.


----------



## Jonathanangkasa

tomscy2000 said:


> I like the Cambridge Audio Melomania 1 a lot. It's got a simple interface, and the Bluetooth pairing stability is good. The sound is really well balanced, non-peaky, nicely extended on both ends, and vocally present.
> 
> The sound is sublime at its price point, I find it much better than the Bang & Olufsen E8 2.0, which is very strident in the treble. It's much smaller than the Sennheiser Momentum True Wireless, and I much prefer its sound signature. I also tested the Astrotec S80 on the same day; I hated its finicky touch controls, and while the SQ was decent, it had a much more typical, thicker bass presentation.
> 
> ...


I have some plan to buy astrotec s80, do the quality keep up with the mtw/b&o or is it very far away in terms of sound quality? And is it true that astrotec using a beryllium driver? Thanks


----------



## vstolpner

tomscy2000 said:


> I like the Cambridge Audio Melomania 1 a lot. It's got a simple interface, and the Bluetooth pairing stability is good. The sound is really well balanced, non-peaky, nicely extended on both ends, and vocally present.
> 
> The sound is sublime at its price point, I find it much better than the Bang & Olufsen E8 2.0, which is very strident in the treble. It's much smaller than the Sennheiser Momentum True Wireless, and I much prefer its sound signature. I also tested the Astrotec S80 on the same day; I hated its finicky touch controls, and while the SQ was decent, it had a much more typical, thicker bass presentation.
> 
> ...



How does the Melomania 1 compare to the S80 throughout the frequency range? I find the S80 only a little base heavy but I like the SQ overall. But the fit and finicky touch controls are a little annoying. Just wondering if the Melomania are worth double the cost of the S80?
(PS: specifically Astrotec Motivation, which is what the S80 are sold as in the US, got them with small discount for $50)


----------



## Soreniglio

Should I go and try the Wavefun? I'm a bit worried though, don't wanna be scammed on my first buy


----------



## Dobrescu George

pack21 said:


> What TWS did you get?



1 More TWS

https://usa.1more.com/products/1more-stylish-true-wireless-in-ear-headphones


----------



## vstolpner

Soreniglio said:


> Should I go and try the Wavefun? I'm a bit worried though, don't wanna be scammed on my first buy



Well you won't be scanned (and there's purchase protection for that), but the smart thing to do would be to pick up something people here are recommending.


----------



## vstolpner

Dobrescu George said:


> 1 More TWS
> 
> https://usa.1more.com/products/1more-stylish-true-wireless-in-ear-headphones



Or straight from the source for MUCH cheaper....

https://s.click.aliexpress.com/e/bHyMGnMU


----------



## actorlife (Jun 29, 2019)

I wanted to show you the Alterola IE600 with and without tips. I think it's my only TWS or Earbuds period that have these type of insertions. I think these only came with one pair in the box. The comfort is quite good. I just twist them in to get a good seal. Anyway here are a couple of pics. I'm sure there are alot of these types, but my first. The SQ is top notch. You can check my overview a couple of pages back.


----------



## CoryGillmore (Jun 29, 2019)

Just saw these on a FB ad. $200. Very interesting. Wonder how they'd compare to the new Power Beats.

https://www.klipsch.com/products/t5...M4GBmlGIr5GDvWAQRhNnz6dHfwk3cEaYGW_UwBfaImIQM

8 hour battery. 24 hours with charging case. Seems legit!


----------



## nc8000

CoryGillmore said:


> Just saw these on a FB ad. $200. Very interesting. Wonder how they'd compare to the new Power Beats.
> 
> https://www.klipsch.com/products/t5...M4GBmlGIr5GDvWAQRhNnz6dHfwk3cEaYGW_UwBfaImIQM
> 
> 8 hour battery. 24 hours with charging case. Seems legit!



There are links to several reviews within the last few pages of this thread


----------



## vstolpner

actorlife said:


> I wanted to show you the Alterola IE600 with and without tips. I think it's my only TWS or Earbuds period that have these type of insertions. I think these only came with one pair in the box. The comfort is quite good. I just twist them in to get a good seal. Anyway here are a couple of pics. I'm sure there are alot of these types, but my first. The SQ is top notch. You can check my overview a couple of pages back.



How do their SQ compare to some others?


----------



## CoryGillmore

nc8000 said:


> There are links to several reviews within the last few pages of this thread


Ah damn here I am thinking I'd stumbled onto something new! haha


----------



## Caipirina

actorlife said:


> I wanted to show you the Alterola IE600 with and without tips. I think it's my only TWS or Earbuds period that have these type of insertions. I think these only came with one pair in the box. The comfort is quite good. I just twist them in to get a good seal. Anyway here are a couple of pics. I'm sure there are alot of these types, but my first. The SQ is top notch. You can check my overview a couple of pages back.



Those look interesting ... anyone know if they are on EU amazon under a different name? can't find 'em ... (yeah, as if I need more TWS ... )


----------



## SilverEars (Jun 29, 2019)

Slater said:


> Cool, thanks for the updated photos and info. No rush about the ear hooks; I was just curious.
> 
> BTW, the BT20 is made by TRN, and available in mmcx or 2-pin. They just released a new revision of it (BT20S), that adds aptX, nano coating, and some other features (I think longer battery life etc maybe).


TM2's 12hr battery life is impressive.  I wonder what it will be for BT20S?  

I wonder what's the change in battery life with different codecs?  AptX?


----------



## AnakChan

AnakChan said:


> Actually I can't remember! I will have to open up the box and will have to give it a shot. A little busy at the moment to do an unboxing. From my demo back in April, I -think- it was flexible 'cos I seem to recall playing around with it to fit it around my glasses.


So the cable does have memory wire & it fits around my glasses fine without too much interference.


----------



## albau (Jun 29, 2019)

Had a chance to listen for a day to Tranya T3 (using my own Spinfit tips). It's all subjective and I can see how a more rabid basshead than me can totally love them. But compared to my well liked Anbes 359 Tranyas are just too much for me in bass dept. At least for music I mostly listen to at the gym or on the go - classic and hard rock and jazz. They are so V shaped that mids/vocals seem too distant and treble too scratchy at times. Soundstage is also narrower than Anbes, not speaking of my MW07. To be fair, despite all excesses T3's sub-bass doesn't bleed in and has a little more texture than 359. Otherwise as a package, except for micro USB, T3s are pretty nice for the price. They have reasonably sorted volume controls and loudness is on par with Anbes. Rare case where I'm ok with touch controls. My advise is if you're a basshead and don't mind paying extra $10 for this privilege then go with Tranya T3. Otherwise Anbes 359, while still plenty bassy, are a more balanced choice and still a reigning champ of cheap Chi-Fi.


----------



## snip3r77

albau said:


> Had a chance to listen for a day to Tranya T3 (using my own Spinfit tips). It's all subjective and I can see how a more rabid basshead than me can totally love them. But compared to my well liked Anbes 359 Tranyas are just too much for me in bass dept. At least for music I mostly listen to at the gym or on the go - classic and hard rock and jazz. They are so V shaped that mids/vocals seem too distant and treble too scratchy at times. Soundstage is also narrower than Anbes, not speaking of my MW07. To be fair, despite all excesses T3's sub-bass doesn't bleed in and has a little more texture than 359. Otherwise as a package, except for micro USB, T3s are pretty nice for the price. They have reasonably sorted volume controls and loudness is on par with Anbes. Rare case where I'm ok with touch controls. My advise is if you're a basshead and don't mind paying extra $10 for this privilege then go with Tranya T3. Otherwise Anbes 359, while still plenty bassy, are a more balanced choice and still a reigning champ of cheap Chi-Fi.



I'm more or less tuned to 359. if you happen to use iPhone do you need to max out the volume?


----------



## albau

snip3r77 said:


> I'm more or less tuned to 359. if you happen to use iPhone do you need to max out the volume?


No, sorry, I'm an Android guy. On my s10 both 359 and T3 go plenty loud at 50-60% depending upon ambient noise.


----------



## vstolpner

albau said:


> Had a chance to listen for a day to Tranya T3 (using my own Spinfit tips). It's all subjective and I can see how a more rabid basshead than me can totally love them. But compared to my well liked Anbes 359 Tranyas are just too much for me in bass dept. At least for music I mostly listen to at the gym or on the go - classic and hard rock and jazz. They are so V shaped that mids/vocals seem too distant and treble too scratchy at times. Soundstage is also narrower than Anbes, not speaking of my MW07. To be fair, despite all excesses T3's sub-bass doesn't bleed in and has a little more texture than 359. Otherwise as a package, except for micro USB, T3s are pretty nice for the price. They have reasonably sorted volume controls and loudness is on par with Anbes. Rare case where I'm ok with touch controls. My advise is if you're a basshead and don't mind paying extra $10 for this privilege then go with Tranya T3. Otherwise Anbes 359, while still plenty bassy, are a more balanced choice and still a reigning champ of cheap Chi-Fi.



I wonder what you'd think of the Astrotec Motivation's... They're similar to the Anbes but have a touch more base (not overly so) but sound much more lively. And solely priced to the Tranya


----------



## hifi80sman (Jun 29, 2019)

flamerz said:


> How do the Buds compare to other ones you've tried in terms of detail, separation, and range of frequency? I've read some high praise on their sound quality, but it seems like the Samsung name might have encouraged electronics writers who might not have a good ear to write reviews.


Via AAC/iPhone:  Very good.  Clean, crisp.  Good imaging, soundstage, and “air”.  Lacks deep bass, but for those that enjoy a clean signature with present mids and solid treble performance (does get a little peaky in the obligatory 10kHz region), these are great.

Via AAC/Galaxy s8:  Not as good as Samsung’s Scalable Codec, which is fairly close to Apple AAC (still feel Apple AAC has the edge, but didn’t do any scientific comparison).

Comfort, features, good call performance (I only used in an office), and sound for around $100 (if you can get it for that) is just a great deal.  Even if you have to go to $129, I still like these more than the Jabra 65t (some report one side begins to lose volume over time).


----------



## hifi80sman

Jonathanangkasa said:


> I have some plan to buy astrotec s80, do the quality keep up with the mtw/b&o or is it very far away in terms of sound quality? And is it true that astrotec using a beryllium driver? Thanks


They certainly are on par with the B&O E8, with the exception of App control.

The MTW are a bit smoother, but in a blind test on the street, I’m sure most people would think they all sound good and are in the same general price range (even though they’re not).


----------



## david8613 (Jun 29, 2019)

My tranya t3 came in today, I charged them up fully before trying them. Wow! These have bass, lots of bass! they actually vibrate my ear a little! Definitely more bass than anbes, but t3 is not surpassing sennheiser mtw bass levels yet, but it's up there for sure. Soundstage is much wider on anbes, and sennheiser but its not bad here. it's hard for bassy headphones to have super wide soundstage but that could change with use when they open up. I dont want to talk too much about sound yet because I totally believe in burn in, and I think the r3 will change but right now these t3 sound smooth, warm and have lots of volume, no harsh highs, decent clear mids. Fit is great, it looks like the chubbier, brother of the anbes 359, they are much bigger than anbes 359 but not obnoxiously big in ear, they look good in my ear, the tranya t3 bud looks smaller than my sennheiser mtw. They seem really nicely built, I might say they look a little nicer than anbes 359. Case is nice too I like it. The case is big and bulky compared to anbes, it is the same size as the sennheiser mtw case. the t3  holds alot more charges right? So that's ok to me. Buttons work as advertised, easier to hit than anbes, but I actually like touch controls better like the sennheiser mtw. The only negative I can see is people who dont know how to use true wireless headsets are gonna blast these in ear and not like them. These have lots of volume and bass, listen to them at a lower level to avoid fatigue and distortion.

At this point it's a definitely a good buy, I like it alot already as write this. Its beating anbes for pure bass, pure volume and powerful sound, and battery life.


----------



## actorlife (Jun 29, 2019)

Caipirina said:


> Those look interesting ... anyone know if they are on EU amazon under a different name? can't find 'em ... (yeah, as if I need more TWS ... )


They are on ebay for a bit more than I paid:
https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https://www.ebay.com/ulk/itm/153543632277
*vstolpner & Caipirina*
From what I've been reading so far they sound like the T3 SQ in the review(David & albao) description. They are bassy(actually was listening to them while cleaning) but nothing that an EQ can't fix if you're not a bass person. No big soundstage like the Anbes. Clean sparkly highs, but not screeching What irritating highs. I really like them. I wish the battery was 6hrs instead of 4hr-ish, again that's why I have 6 pairs of TWS. I'd say the Funcl are in the same league except for the No Vol Control.


----------



## Caipirina (Jun 29, 2019)

actorlife said:


> They are on ebay for a bit more than I paid:
> https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https://www.ebay.com/ulk/itm/153543632277



and to get it to Germany they want 13$ shipping and 16.50$ duty on top of everything .. will wait until they pop up on German ebay or amazon ..

found a different, cheaper listing I nearly jumped on, when I realized that that one was for single ear piece 

Wait .. is that them??  unbranded on AliX ... of course, could just be the same outer shell and crapola inside ...  https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32930568088.html


----------



## actorlife

Caipirina said:


> and to get it to Germany they want 13$ shipping and 16.50$ duty on top of everything .. will wait until they pop up on German ebay or amazon ..
> 
> found a different, cheaper listing I nearly jumped on, when I realized that that one was for single ear piece


Yup I posted a 1 piece and realized and changed the link. I think if you have the T3 you won't need these anyway, unless you're a collector now. "Grin"


----------



## Caipirina

actorlife said:


> Yup I posted a 1 piece and realized and changed the link. I think if you have the T3 you won't need these anyway, unless you're a collector now. "Grin"



Some would use the word 'hoarder'  

I think I also just found it on amazon.de under the charming brand name 'Kafuty' ... who comes up with those names??? 
aaaaaand .. it's dispatched from China .. so .. long shipping and no easy amazon return ...


----------



## actorlife (Jun 29, 2019)

Caipirina said:


> Some would use the word 'hoarder'
> 
> I think I also just found it on amazon.de under the charming brand name 'Kafuty' ... who comes up with those names???
> aaaaaand .. it's dispatched from China .. so .. long shipping and no easy amazon return ...


Be careful as you know may be different driver sound like crappola. No more X12 clones. Haha. If I do get another TWS better have 6-8hr battery at least. Too bad those Syllable S101(Best battery 7-8hrs of any of my TWS period) are not my taste in clarity. At least they can be appreciated for youtube(no way I'd use these for music/movies) or Audiobooks.
Edit.
If ya like pop folk with a bit of funk look up Alana Davis - Pretty Like Money. No rap just singing with a great bassline. She's released a record recently after taking a long hiatus and its all I play on my Cayin N3. Yup that good. Found the video:


----------



## dondonut

Anyone here who has both the qs1 and qs2? In curious whether a left bud of the qs1 can be paired with the right bud of the qs2. My brother has the qs2 but he literally left for a month to Vietnam this morning :'). I'll also try to contact qcy regarding this.


----------



## mikp

actorlife said:


> Be careful as you know may be different driver sound like crappola. No more X12 clones. Haha. If I do get another TWS better have 6-8hr battery at least. Too bad those Syllable S101(Best battery 7-8hrs of any of my TWS period) are not my taste in clarity. At least they can be appreciated for youtube(no way I'd use these for music/movies) or Audiobooks.
> Edit.
> If ya like pop folk with a bit of funk look up Alana Davis - Pretty Like Money. No rap just singing with a great bassline. She's released a record recently after taking a long hiatus and its all I play on my Cayin N3. Yup that good. Found the video:





Well, you could try these, cheapest i've found them


----------



## actorlife

mikp said:


> Well, you could try these, cheapest i've found them


Misses by one hour. I did see those linked here this week and actually like the way they look, but as of now not bitting on anything. Also want a BA driver or combo with dynamic, which I have wired and like the combo.


----------



## BigZ12

mikp said:


> Well, you could try these, cheapest i've found them


Even cheaper here: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33049310703.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.50294c4dOBd0Ke

Have any of you guys tried these??


----------



## milkybrkid

mikp said:


> Well, you could try these, cheapest i've found them



I received these this morning and find them to be very bass heavy drowning out all mid and trebles also had a couple of micro disconnections, so I personally wouldn't recommend.


----------



## BigZ12

milkybrkid said:


> I received these this morning and find them to be very bass heavy drowning out all mid and trebles also had a couple of micro disconnections, so I personally wouldn't recommend.


Thanks for saving me just over $20


----------



## FYLegend (Jun 29, 2019)

hifi80sman said:


> Via AAC/iPhone:  Very good.  Clean, crisp.  Good imaging, soundstage, and “air”.  Lacks deep bass, but for those that enjoy a clean signature with present mids and solid treble performance (does get a little peaky in the obligatory 10kHz region), these are great.
> 
> Via AAC/Galaxy s8:  Not as good as Samsung’s Scalable Codec, which is fairly close to Apple AAC (still feel Apple AAC has the edge, but didn’t do any scientific comparison).
> 
> Comfort, features, good call performance (I only used in an office), and sound for around $100 (if you can get it for that) is just a great deal.  Even if you have to go to $129, I still like these more than the Jabra 65t (some report one side begins to lose volume over time).


How's SBC? My laptop is Windows 10 so it wouldn't support AAC. Pricing is 200 in Canada and it hasn't budged at all , though there's a few for 170 or a bit less on eBay. Otherwise there's some cheaper ones from the States but they charge 20+ for shipping so it would be ~150$ still.



milkybrkid said:


> I received these this morning and find them to be very bass heavy drowning out all mid and trebles also had a couple of micro disconnections, so I personally wouldn't recommend.


Ouch...

Another potential Galaxy Buds Killer/Sabbat E12 alternative:
https://deals.androidauthority.com/...-331197&utm_content=a0x1P000004HThj&scsonar=1

Type C + Wireless charging, seems to be only SBC though. Can also be used as a power bank via the included Type C to A female adapter. I have doubts it will be able to charge itself via Type C PD though as a result.


----------



## mikp

BigZ12 said:


> Thanks for saving me just over $20



yes, the qcc5100 series better come soon. Itchy trigger finger. So far im good with the jabra 65t for walks with ambient mode. Mavins for sound and syllable s101 for cheap fun.

Also got the apt-x hd kz cable for some cheap iems.


----------



## david8613 (Jun 29, 2019)

Tranya t3 are pretty awesome, these are not as clean sounding as the anbes or sennheiser but they sound great over all! Powerful sound, the strong bass does not touch treble and mids. These are very good with dance, edm, but with hip hop and reggaeton they are spectacular, throw some daddy yankee, bad bunny, post malone or drake your ears will vibrate! T3 were made for this kind of music. These are not for technical listening, more of a big car system sound! If I had to describe these they are so powerful and strong they almost feel like full size headphones like the vmodas, or the newer beats. Connection is solid no hick ups as long as you stay near phone if you walk to next room they disconnect but reconnect very quickly when you come back into range. My other buds are better here I can go farther in my house and still have a connection. The real test is gonna be outside, lots of last generation tw failed out doors losing connection like crazy. I made a phone call and my brother said I sounded pretty good, he even said the t3 sounded much better than the sennheiser mtw I was using the day before.


----------



## Caipirina

Caipirina said:


> Those look interesting ... anyone know if they are on EU amazon under a different name? can't find 'em ... (yeah, as if I need more TWS ... )



Answering my own question, maybe for those who have a more daring fashion sense than myself. I found the Alterola (or an identical clone with who knows what's inside) on amazon.de under the name NENRENT and it comes in PINK only !!! The universe is trying to tell me that I really do not need those ...


----------



## vstolpner (Jun 29, 2019)

Caipirina said:


> Answering my own question, maybe for those who have a more daring fashion sense than myself. I found the Alterola (or an identical clone with who knows what's inside) on amazon.de under the name NENRENT and it comes in PINK only !!! The universe is trying to tell me that I really do not need those ...



Maybe the universe is trying to tell you that you look good in pink 

Oh they're on eBay too!!

https://www.ebay.ca/itm/NENRENT-S57...m=323831885058&_trksid=p2349624.c100930.m5375


----------



## srinivasvignesh

What codecs does the Tranya T3 support? Anybody chime in with call quality?


----------



## albau (Jun 30, 2019)

srinivasvignesh said:


> What codecs does the Tranya T3 support? Anybody chime in with call quality?


My s10 was using aac. Single call I had on a relatively quiet street didn’t go well - the other party was constantly asking me to repeat, but I was hearing them well. Doubt t3 has it better or worse than typical chi-fi in this price range like anbes 359. Heck, my $300 mw07 sucks at calls. The only non-apple tws I had that’s half decent at that is jabra 65t.


----------



## Soreniglio

I made a decision, I'm going with the Anbes.

Would really love to buy Astrotec S80, but since I had some bad experience with Creative, I wanna go for cheap stuff this time.

Might decide to buy a pair later this year, maybe of even better stuff if anything comes out.


----------



## david8613

T3 phone call was very good for me. I was in living room with TV on and my brother said I sounded much better than when I used my sennheiser mtw, or anbes, but not better than my 65t. I used them last night listening at very low volume, they sound so very nice. Warm and smooth, and very clear. Comfortable enough to sleep with on. Controls are working very nicely, the are a little bigger so you dont really jam the sound tubes in your ears when using them. Also the battery life is crazy long. I woke up in the morning and i still had 20% life and I was using them all afternoon noon before bed time. I might have gotten longer than what is advertised because I had it in a lower volume. The t3 are very nice, a definite keeper, Sound wise very good they get close to the powerful experience of the sennheiser mtw. You can get an anbes 359 and tranya t3 and be way below what a sennheiser, b&o or master and dynamics and not be too far off on the sound, your just missing some fancy features like the app eq, ambient sound etc. These companies better pick up there game. This is a good year for true wireless.


----------



## JimmyR

hifi80sman said:


> Update on Jlab JBuds Air Executive:
> 
> Decided to keep them.  I returned the 1st unit I received and got a new one.  There is still driver flex "crinkle" sound, but there loud "clu-clunk" sound has largely disappeared.  Keep in mind, the stronger the seal, obviously, the stronger the suction.  I usually roll with the larger tips to create the effing highest vacuum seal known to man, but YMMV.
> 
> ...



Thanks for this thorough update. I’m almost convinced to get those once they hit Amazon EU (not there yet and shipping costs to Spain ordering from the Jlab official site is almost the price of the buds ) 

Ambient mode and especially a - finally - solid mic for calls alongside decent SQ would make the case for me. 

Assuming the price in Euros matches it in US bucks, sounds like a sweet deal. Even I don’t like stems, they look shorter than the Airpods and I like the overall look of these.

Looking forward to get my hands on them


----------



## JimmyR

david8613 said:


> T3 phone call was very good for me. I was in living room with TV on and my brother said I sounded much better than when I used my sennheiser mtw, or anbes, but not better than my 65t. I used them last night listening at very low volume, they sound so very nice. Warm and smooth, and very clear. Comfortable enough to sleep with on. Controls are working very nicely, the are a little bigger so you dont really jam the sound tubes in your ears when using them. Also the battery life is crazy long. I woke up in the morning and i still had 20% life and I was using them all afternoon noon before bed time. I might have gotten longer than what is advertised because I had it in a lower volume. The t3 are very nice, a definite keeper, Sound wise very good they get close to the powerful experience of the sennheiser mtw. You can get an anbes 359 and tranya t3 and be way below what a sennheiser, b&o or master and dynamics and not be too far off on the sound, your just missing some fancy features like the app eq, ambient sound etc. These companies better pick up there game. This is a good year for true wireless.



This Tranya brand has made me curious. As opposed to most other chifi brands, It seems they only do TWS products (have 4 right now in their line up) and again, being chifi, they’re not listed on AliX, Bangood or rest of usual places typical for this stuff. Kind of odd, definitely


----------



## srinivasvignesh

david8613 said:


> T3 phone call was very good for me. I was in living room with TV on and my brother said I sounded much better than when I used my sennheiser mtw, or anbes, but not better than my 65t. I used them last night listening at very low volume, they sound so very nice. Warm and smooth, and very clear. Comfortable enough to sleep with on. Controls are working very nicely, the are a little bigger so you dont really jam the sound tubes in your ears when using them. Also the battery life is crazy long. I woke up in the morning and i still had 20% life and I was using them all afternoon noon before bed time. I might have gotten longer than what is advertised because I had it in a lower volume. The t3 are very nice, a definite keeper, Sound wise very good they get close to the powerful experience of the sennheiser mtw. You can get an anbes 359 and tranya t3 and be way below what a sennheiser, b&o or master and dynamics and not be too far off on the sound, your just missing some fancy features like the app eq, ambient sound etc. These companies better pick up there game. This is a good year for true wireless.


Thanks for the detailed reply. Would you also be able to comment on whether it supports any codes more than SBC?


----------



## JimmyR

srinivasvignesh said:


> Thanks for the detailed reply. Would you also be able to comment on whether it supports any codes more than SBC?



As a couple of recent comments in this same thread, seems that they support AAC. Looks unlikely that they support AptX though


----------



## srinivasvignesh

Thanks. AAC should be good enough.


----------



## flamerz

david8613 said:


> My tranya t3 came in today, I charged them up fully before trying them. Wow! These have bass, lots of bass! they actually vibrate my ear a little! Definitely more bass than anbes, but t3 is not surpassing sennheiser mtw bass levels yet, but it's up there for sure. Soundstage is much wider on anbes, and sennheiser but its not bad here. it's hard for bassy headphones to have super wide soundstage but that could change with use when they open up. I dont want to talk too much about sound yet because I totally believe in burn in, and I think the r3 will change but right now these t3 sound smooth, warm and have lots of volume, no harsh highs, decent clear mids. Fit is great, it looks like the chubbier, brother of the anbes 359, they are much bigger than anbes 359 but not obnoxiously big in ear, they look good in my ear, the tranya t3 bud looks smaller than my sennheiser mtw. They seem really nicely built, I might say they look a little nicer than anbes 359. Case is nice too I like it. The case is big and bulky compared to anbes, it is the same size as the sennheiser mtw case. the t3  holds alot more charges right? So that's ok to me. Buttons work as advertised, easier to hit than anbes, but I actually like touch controls better like the sennheiser mtw. The only negative I can see is people who dont know how to use true wireless headsets are gonna blast these in ear and not like them. These have lots of volume and bass, listen to them at a lower level to avoid fatigue and distortion.
> 
> At this point it's a definitely a good buy, I like it alot already as write this. Its beating anbes for pure bass, pure volume and powerful sound, and battery life.


How does the T3 compare to the Sennheisers and Galaxy Buds in terms of detail and separation?


----------



## Bartig

milkybrkid said:


> I received these this morning and find them to be very bass heavy drowning out all mid and trebles also had a couple of micro disconnections, so I personally wouldn't recommend.


Oof, thanks. Bought them under de YTOM brand for 29 euros, hope the seller is willing to cancel my order.


----------



## Toddk

I am not a fan of the wires iems, half of the reason i need the wire is to find the iem at the end of it....hahahah


----------



## vladzakhar

Just bought https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07J2Z5DBM/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o03_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1. to use in the shower.
It has IPX8 waterproof grade. I specifically stood under the shower for some time and they worked without any problem. Very cool.


----------



## Caipirina (Jun 30, 2019)

the evil hoarder in me went for some late night amazon shopping and found THIS .... ZagZog ... this listing on German amazon is somewhat misleading as most of the reviews are for an older model, they just re-used the listing (should be red flag #1) .. they also seem to be rather fresh on AliX, no orders yet (as far as I could judge from image search results listings) ... well, 31.99€ after coupon .. AND I can return if they utterly suck.


----------



## Caipirina

vladzakhar said:


> Just bought https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07J2Z5DBM/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o03_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1. to use in the shower.
> It has IPX8 waterproof grade. I specifically stood under the shower for some time and they worked without any problem. Very cool.



What about the sound? Seal? Fit? Fun factor other than shower music?


----------



## vladzakhar

Caipirina said:


> What about the sound? Seal? Fit? Fun factor other than shower music?


They sound pretty good. Not as good as T3. Bass is lighter. Isolation and fit ok.


----------



## actorlife

Caipirina said:


> the evil hoarder in me went for some late night amazon shopping and found THIS .... ZagZog ... this listing on German amazon is somewhat misleading as most of the reviews are for an older model, they just re-used the listing (should be red flag #1) .. they also seem to be rather fresh on AliX, no orders yet (as far as I could judge from image search results listings) ... well, 31.99€ after coupon .. AND I can return if they utterly suck.


What's the hoarding TWS tally thus far?


----------



## david8613 (Jun 30, 2019)

flamerz said:


> How does the T3 compare to the Sennheisers and Galaxy Buds in terms of detail and separation?



I'm still working them in. I liked the galaxy buds alot, they were clearer, brighter than the t3. Separation might be the same from what I remember, I sold them because they were too similar to my jabra 65t sport, so I sold them. The sennheiser beats both for separation easily. The thing about the t3 is its raw power delivery and authority in the bass department but its still warm and smooth. Sennheiser have more bass and are warm also  But I think t3 might be warmer still and darker than the other 2, but not in a bad way. One thing I noticed is you probably wont want to use these t3 on a tread mill, thump thump thump with every step, not good for running. Weight lifting yes, but running no. If you ever heard of VModa full size head phones, the sennheiser mtw and the tranya t3 sound like that but in a tiny little bud! Its amazing. The t3 uses acc codec, no aptx or ldac too bad...


----------



## Slater (Jun 30, 2019)

vladzakhar said:


> Just bought https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07J2Z5DBM/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o03_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1. to use in the shower.
> It has IPX8 waterproof grade. I specifically stood under the shower for some time and they worked without any problem. Very cool.



Why not just get a Bluetooth speaker? How do you clean your ears in the shower? Just curious...


----------



## vstolpner

Slater said:


> Why not just get a Bluetooth speaker? How do you clean your ears in the shower? Just curious...



Why clean your ears when you'll just have earbuds in there anyway...


----------



## Slater

vstolpner said:


> Why clean your ears when you'll just have earbuds in there anyway...



Haha, good point!


----------



## diab0lik

Hi guys
i just bought a pair of sabbat e12s and was wondering if someone could tell me which size of comply foams fit them. thanks


----------



## radis290 (Jul 1, 2019)

Has anyone tried those Bluedio hi?
https://m.aliexpress.com/item/32757696619.html


----------



## FYLegend

Hmm, Earfun Free now has an Amazon.com listing and it says it supports AAC - no info on such on the manual or on Indiegogo.


----------



## vstolpner

radis290 said:


> Has anyone tried those Bluedio hi?
> https://m.aliexpress.com/item/32757696619.html



Hmm, interesting earphones, and support music pausing when taking out of ears. And 13mm driver....

I didn't hear the best reviews for the Bluedio T-elf, although they look kind of interesting too. 

Let us know if you decide to go for it.


----------



## Bartig

radis290 said:


> Has anyone tried those Bluedio hi?
> https://m.aliexpress.com/item/32757696619.html


The T-Elf is absolutely horrible. So I bought these too.


----------



## Dcell7

Bartig said:


> The T-Elf is absolutely horrible. So I bought these too.



no mentions of any codecs though. I think i'll bite too. If the sound quality sucks i will be using it on my iPad for watching videos


----------



## Caipirina

actorlife said:


> What's the hoarding TWS tally thus far?



Don't make me count them ... I would probably disintegrate in shame  

Good they are so tiny and look all similar, here is hope that wife-y never finds out


----------



## Caipirina

Bartig said:


> The T-Elf is absolutely horrible. So I bought these too.



Ah, those tempting low-price offers ... I think I am done with stem-based TWS, if I can't jam it all the way in, it's just no fun (this does sound weird ... )  Plus, I have a funny aftertaste when it comes to the Bludio brand name ... 

Speaking of low price offers ...  found these on amazon.de and while it was simmering on my wishlist the price went from 20€ to 16€ ... and i like the looks ... though all reviews I found told me not to get them ... well, if they are a total fail I can send back ... anyone know them?


----------



## Slater

Caipirina said:


> ...Plus, I have a funny aftertaste when it comes to the Bludio brand name ...



I agree, I’m done with Bluedio.

I gave them a lot of support and business over the years. But they’ve really gone to the dogs in the last 2+ years. I am no longer getting sucked into their half baked train wrecks.





The T-elf was par for the course for the way they seem to run things nowadays. I don’t expect this Hi model to be any different, but I’d love Bluedio to prove me wrong.


----------



## Caipirina (Jul 1, 2019)

I finally found a way to fit the 1More 'stylish' into my wonky ears so that I get a proper seal and get much better sound. But it looks weird ...  first of all, I thought I needed the biggest rubber wings for best fit in my big ears, but no, those actually prevent me from jamming them all the way in ... so, after even trying without any wings, I found that the smallest size works best (together with the medium tips, which usually works for me straight out of the box )... now, towards the end of insertion (really trying to not sound dirty here .. ) I need to give them a little twist and then I end up with THIS:



I am especially curious what @Bartig thinks about that, I just read his comparison of Mifo O5, 1more and Tranya T3 ... i wonder if maybe the 1more, similar to the Bose SSF is not supposed to have a tight seal and I am now just happy about booming bass like a kid who poured way too much sugar on his cereal?


----------



## Mouseman

Slater said:


> I agree, I’m done with Bluedio.
> 
> I gave them a lot of support and business over the years. But they’ve really gone to the dogs in the last 2+ years. I am no longer getting sucked into their half baked train wrecks.
> 
> ...


This, 1000%. I've gotten screwed by them too many times, and when they replied to me that the constant connect/disconnects and the volume bouncing up and down on the V2s must be my phone and not their POC headphones, I vowed I'd never buy another one of their products. Which is too bad, because the TN2s are actually pretty good, but their attitude and cr@ppy products have burned me too many times.


----------



## Caipirina

radis290 said:


> Has anyone tried those Bluedio hi?
> https://m.aliexpress.com/item/32757696619.html



ok, at 18$ I am curious as well now .. BUT, this listing with the 23 positive reviews? Those are all for other models ... they repurposed an old listing IMHO ... red flag ... 

But curious what actual reviews we might get here


----------



## Slater (Jul 1, 2019)

Caipirina said:


> ok, at 18$ I am curious as well now .. BUT, this listing with the 23 positive reviews? Those are all for other models ... they repurposed an old listing IMHO ... red flag ...
> 
> But curious what actual reviews we might get here



I think that’s more of an red flag issue with the 3rd party seller, not Bluedio themselves.

I personally wouldn’t even consider that Hi without knowing exactly what codecs are supported. But in typical Bluedio fashion, they conveniently don’t specify those details. That allows them the freedom to include whatever half-baked buggy firmware they want into the initial release (ie Hi) without answering to anyone (because they didn’t break any promises they never made in the 1st place). Then they’ll ‘fix’ all the bugs for the 2nd release of the same product (ie Hi-2 or Hi-S).

That’s been their standard business practice for a while now. Anything you buy from them becomes instantly obsolete in 3 months when they release a ‘fixed’ version of what you literally just bought. Then if you buy that ‘fixed’ one, they immediately release the next major model.

It’s like, just work on the original one for 3 more fracking months, so you can release a solid product. It wouldn’t be a problem if their stuff could be firmware upgraded, but none of their stuff supports that.


----------



## Caipirina

Surprised that not more people jump on the 18$ Haylou GT1
 I am finally giving them some time, got them to fit perfectly .. and they sound pretty awesome at that price point. Can't say I did any major A/B, but I like what I am hearing ... they are similar in size to the redmi airdots, but have touch fields instead of physical buttons (which I am kinda 'meh' about) the case is much smaller though ...  They do sound 'richer' / 'fuller' than the redmi airdots ...


----------



## hifi80sman

Caipirina said:


> Surprised that not more people jump on the 18$ Haylou GT1
> I am finally giving them some time, got them to fit perfectly .. and they sound pretty awesome at that price point. Can't say I did any major A/B, but I like what I am hearing ... they are similar in size to the redmi airdots, but have touch fields instead of physical buttons (which I am kinda 'meh' about) the case is much smaller though ...  They do sound 'richer' / 'fuller' than the redmi airdots ...


If you put price aside, do they sound as good as some of the mainstream units?  For example, I think the 65t are middle of the road sound-wise and don't sound as good as some of the Chi-Fi units I have (i.e. Astrotec S80).


----------



## Caipirina

hifi80sman said:


> If you put price aside, do they sound as good as some of the mainstream units?  For example, I think the 65t are middle of the road sound-wise and don't sound as good as some of the Chi-Fi units I have (i.e. Astrotec S80).


Never listened to the Jabra 65T ... but they sure are better sounding than the Sony SPOON ..  (S700N?)  trying to think of what other, more 'serious' ones I could compare them with ...


----------



## vstolpner

hifi80sman said:


> If you put price aside, do they sound as good as some of the mainstream units?  For example, I think the 65t are middle of the road sound-wise and don't sound as good as some of the Chi-Fi units I have (i.e. Astrotec S80).



I'm actually finding the S80's sound signature quite a bit V shaped... Maybe it's the fact these are their Motivation units, but from what I understand they're exactly the same


----------



## Alphasoixante

These Enacfire E20s are a "Deal of the Day" at Amazon today ($27.99 instead of $59.99). Has anybody here listened to them? I'm curious whether they are worth the $$.


----------



## actorlife

Got the package. Muah haha. Let's see if they are even worth 20 of my buckarooss. Thoughts later.


----------



## Bartig

Caipirina said:


> I finally found a way to fit the 1More 'stylish' into my wonky ears so that I get a proper seal and get much better sound. But it looks weird ...  first of all, I thought I needed the biggest rubber wings for best fit in my big ears, but no, those actually prevent me from jamming them all the way in ... so, after even trying without any wings, I found that the smallest size works best (together with the medium tips, which usually works for me straight out of the box )... now, towards the end of insertion (really trying to not sound dirty here .. ) I need to give them a little twist and then I end up with THIS:
> 
> 
> 
> I am especially curious what @Bartig thinks about that, I just read his comparison of Mifo O5, 1more and Tranya T3 ... i wonder if maybe the 1more, similar to the Bose SSF is not supposed to have a tight seal and I am now just happy about booming bass like a kid who poured way too much sugar on his cereal?


Hmm, the 1more are one of the least tight fitted true wireless in my ear, but I think it's on purpose. Along with the ear rings, a looser fit may actually be good for sporting and sweating. Haven't tested this though.


----------



## vstolpner

@Bartig 
Can you advise differences between the Tranya T3, 1more E1026BT, and mifo O5?


----------



## hifi80sman

vstolpner said:


> I'm actually finding the S80's sound signature quite a bit V shaped... Maybe it's the fact these are their Motivation units, but from what I understand they're exactly the same


Interesting.  Not sure how they actually measure, but I find them to be fairly tame as far as bass and a little accentuated on the treble side.  I actually tone the treble down a few dbs and pump up the bass a bit.  I'm not a bass-head, but I definitely like to feel the emotional drops from bass lines.  Maybe I'm just emo.


----------



## actorlife (Jul 1, 2019)

Well its a bloody Muddy earphone. Missing one of the large Earpieces tips. When trying to take off the small Eartip that came with the Earbuds a piece came off which I put back in, so no biggie. Hook up to my android box and treble roll off, bass is boomy. Tried my Anbes 359 tips and it sounded a pinch better. To my surprise the charging case is smaller than the Alterola IE600. Zoinks. Too bad the SQ was so bad. They were a bit big for my liking. It's going back to Amazon.
EDIT
 I think I'll stick to $30-35 TWS. Being disappointed alot lately especially when my first TWS's were the Funcl and Anbes with my kind of SQ. Like I said earlier I'm sticking to BA/Dynamic combo and 6-8hr battery or more.


----------



## korefuji

anyone know when the Klipsch are available to buy in the UK?


----------



## vstolpner

hifi80sman said:


> Interesting.  Not sure how they actually measure, but I find them to be fairly tame as far as bass and a little accentuated on the treble side.  I actually tone the treble down a few dbs and pump up the bass a bit.  I'm not a bass-head, but I definitely like to feel the emotional drops from bass lines.  Maybe I'm just emo.



Yeah I'm finding in some songs there is actually some sibilance that's quite unpleasant


----------



## Mouseman

Alphasoixante said:


> These Enacfire E20s are a "Deal of the Day" at Amazon today ($27.99 instead of $59.99). Has anybody here listened to them? I'm curious whether they are worth the $$.


If it says 4 hours, I've learned that's usually pretty optimistic for ear buds. They usually won't get close to that. That would be a deal breaker for me, I've got some on order that claim 8 hours, I hope they get close.


----------



## Caipirina

vstolpner said:


> @Bartig
> Can you advise differences between the Tranya T3, 1more E1026BT, and mifo O5?



I even linked to his review article ..... Here it is again


----------



## Caipirina

Found this last night in amazon.de 's bargain bin (trash heap) and it does look exactly like the Alterola IE600 ... but at 15$ and 4.1BT ... pretty certain this is something else ... at least on the inside ... 

Still, maybe order 'for science' ... and then send back


----------



## dondonut

PSA: I contacted QCY whether I could use the right QS1 bud with the left QS2 bud and according to them they are incompatible. I lost one of the QS1 earphones so I'm planning to get the QS1 again, so I have a backup right bud + charging case! 

Any other budget suggestions recommended for now? Saw the T3 getting praise but that's at the limit of my budget for it's intended usage (sporting mostly, while doing chores)


----------



## BigAund

So apparently the Melomania are not compatible with the Nokia 7.1 on Android 9 (no idea why!). Be warned that these may have issues on other Android ONE phones running 9. I've had no issues with any other wireless earphones (Bragi Headphone, Earin M2, Sennheiser MTW, Sylable 101) but the Cambridge Audio Melomania are incompatible!!! this comes from a CA response to a review I posted on their website incidentally.

I don't know if CA are active on this site but if you are, your response times are totally unacceptable as well!


----------



## Dobrescu George

Oi, seems I'll also be doing TWS 600 from HIFIMAN

LOL, two IEMs named TWS in my hands MUAHAHAHAHA


----------



## hifi80sman

Dobrescu George said:


> Oi, seems I'll also be doing TWS 600 from HIFIMAN
> 
> LOL, two IEMs named TWS in my hands MUAHAHAHAHA


I'd be interested on your option regarding the bass.

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/hifiman-tws600-first-impression.910058/page-2


----------



## solaris9841 (Jul 3, 2019)

Hey everyone. Long time casual lurker but finally registered after buying a new pair of wireless IEMs recently.

Recently I purchased the NUARL NT01AX (https://nuarl.com/en/nt01ax/) full wireless IEMs.

This is my first attempt at wireless IEMs, mainly because I tear through cables like no other through rough usage and my latest pair of wired IEMs are starting to show the telltale signs.

The reason I was attracted to these vs some of the other ones I was considering (Momentum True Wireless in particular) was because the specs were pretty much what I was looking for, and it boasted a killer battery life.

Bluetooth Spec.: Ver.,5.0 / Class 2 /Multi-pairing(3)
Bluetooth Profile: A2DP, HFP, HSP, AVRCP
Bluetooth Codec: aptX/AAC/SBC
Driver: “Graphene” Dynamic Single φ6mm (with HDSS)
Frequency range: 20~20,000 Hz
Water Resistance: equal to IPX4

Continuous Playtime: about 10hr（SBC/AAC）, about 7hr（aptX）
Continuous Speaking Time: about 15hr
Recharging Time (Max): about 1.5hr
Charging case capacity: Playback up to 35hr use with charging case

Uses the QCC3026 chipset.

Pairing with a Sony Xperia X Compact (SO-02J) which unfortunately is Bluetooth 4.2.

Sound quality is pretty good. Compared to the wired IEMs I was using previously (Audio Technica ATH-LS70) they slightly more bass heavy and the mids are slightly less defined I would say. Based on the sound, if these were $50-100 cheaper then I wouldn't hesitate to pick them up as wired IEMs if I stumbled upon them while testing new models at the store. Nothing amazing but they're solid enough to be everyday listeners for me.

Comes with 3 sets of standard tips (rather deep), as well 3 sizes of the more shallow SpinFit CP 350s. The depth is definitely noticeable. I'd be interested in trying these out with some foam tips eventually.

They get loud. I have to keep my volume at a firm 50% because beyond that it gets really loud after that.

These block sounds pretty well compared to other IEMs I've used. While walking around the city I could hear the occasional car sound, and a very faint sound of the train while riding inside the train, but human voices and other similar noises just don't register anymore unless it's loud. No more hearing the cat meowing its ass off at all hours. Even keeping the volume one notch above mute, I could barely hear someone at normal talking volume from a foot away and it only sounded like noise instead of words. I personally enjoy that when I want some alone time, but I also listen to music a lot at work and while walking around outside so that could cause some issues.

I've noticed some connectivity issues though. Since this is my first time buying wireless IEMs this could be "normal", but I've noticed that sound cuts out if the "master" earbud is covered (like cupping my and around my left ear). I noticed this because I had taken out the left earbud while talking to someone and cupped it in my hand like a fist. My girlfriend's pair Radius HP-T100BT also does the same thing so it might just be a general wireless issue that I wasn't aware of until now. I've also had connectivity issues with them cutting out once straight out of the box directly after buying them at the store while I was walking to the train station, and once briefly while sitting inside working on my laptop. Both times my battery on the device I was pairing the IEMs to was running low on battery so I'm unsure if that had any effect, so I'm keeping an eye on that in case I run into unexpected connectivity issues again.

The battery has lasted pretty well so far but I'm going to try to push them as long as I can without charging them today. The user manual suggests periodically putting the earbuds into the charging case for a second and then taking them out again to have it reset which earbud is the master/slave based on battery levels but we'll see.

Speaking of the case, the case is probably the weakest point for me aside from the connectivity issues. It feels rather cheap in comparison to everything else. I'm worried I'll break the button someday.

I looked at some other posts about the NT01AX but there aren't very many and nothing detailed so I'd be interested in hearing opinions if anyone else has the NT01AX! Especially in regards to connectivity.

Edit: The playback times seem roughly right I guess. I started listening around 9am this morning and around 3pm (roughly the 6 hour mark) using the apt-x codec it has started to glitch out on me a little bit. The battery isn't dead yet though.

Edit 2: The left earbud finally drained just past 5pm. So from 9am to 5pm-ish, probably only an hour or so of break time in between, with the left earbud master the entire time. The right earbud still has some charge. I think i could've stretched it past the 7 hour mark if I had let it swap master earbuds like the user guide suggested.

Overall, battery life is great in my opinion! I can easily last a full day with one charge, from leaving the house to returning home after work. It lasts longer than my phone's battery at least.


----------



## james444

Dobrescu George said:


> Oi, seems I'll also be doing TWS 600 from HIFIMAN



If there's one brand I've been hoping for to go true wireless, then it's Hifiman.

Their cables have always been crappy as hell.


----------



## Bartig

vstolpner said:


> @Bartig
> Can you advise differences between the Tranya T3, 1more E1026BT, and mifo O5?


I can, but have you read my review comparison already? Love to answer further questions. 



actorlife said:


> Well its a bloody Muddy earphone. Missing one of the large Earpieces tips. When trying to take off the small Eartip that came with the Earbuds a piece came off which I put back in, so no biggie. Hook up to my android box and treble roll off, bass is boomy. Tried my Anbes 359 tips and it sounded a pinch better. To my surprise the charging case is smaller than the Alterola IE600. Zoinks. Too bad the SQ was so bad. They were a bit big for my liking. It's going back to Amazon.
> EDIT
> I think I'll stick to $30-35 TWS. Being disappointed alot lately especially when my first TWS's were the Funcl and Anbes with my kind of SQ. Like I said earlier I'm sticking to BA/Dynamic combo and 6-8hr battery or more.



No wonder, this is one of the cheapest generic TWS designs you can get on Alibaba, 'branded' with hundreds of names on AliExpress and Amazon.



Caipirina said:


> Found this last night in amazon.de 's bargain bin (trash heap) and it does look exactly like the Alterola IE600 ... but at 15$ and 4.1BT ... pretty certain this is something else ... at least on the inside ...
> 
> Still, maybe order 'for science' ... and then send back



I wouldn't! Bluetooth 4.1 is bound to give you some pairing and connectivity issues. Love to hear your experience though. 



dondonut said:


> PSA: I contacted QCY whether I could use the right QS1 bud with the left QS2 bud and according to them they are incompatible. I lost one of the QS1 earphones so I'm planning to get the QS1 again, so I have a backup right bud + charging case!
> 
> Any other budget suggestions recommended for now? Saw the T3 getting praise but that's at the limit of my budget for it's intended usage (sporting mostly, while doing chores)


For sporting, I like a more bassy sound. The Haylou GT1 and Anomoibuds Capsule come to mind. Also the waterproof Mpow T6.


----------



## vstolpner

Bartig said:


> I can, but have you read my review comparison already? Love to answer further questions.



I have read it (awesome post btw!)
I'm currently using the mifo O5 professional, and while it's amazing in most aspects, it does lack in base a bit. The Anbes 359 are great, but don't have the level of clarity in looking for. So I guess I'm just wondering between the ones in your post, which ones would you recommend for having some base, very good separation and soundstage, and a relatively balanced sound signature?

Also, does the Qualcomm chip in the 1more set make a difference in connectivity? Or the aptx codec in sound quality?


----------



## BigZ12

https://www.lypertek.com/product-page/lypertek-tevi-truly-wireless-earphones
These look promising. Don't think I've read about them in this thread?


----------



## Caipirina

Caipirina said:


> the evil hoarder in me went for some late night amazon shopping and found THIS .... ZagZog ... this listing on German amazon is somewhat misleading as most of the reviews are for an older model, they just re-used the listing (should be red flag #1) .. they also seem to be rather fresh on AliX, no orders yet (as far as I could judge from image search results listings) ... well, 31.99€ after coupon .. AND I can return if they utterly suck.




So, those Zagzogs arrived and I have played with them for 10-15 minutes ... and as a first look .. they do NOT suck!  Actually, ever since I found the right tips and get a nice seal, I am starting to wonder if they are the Tranya T3 in a different package ... need to do some serious A/Bing here ... sometimes to bass seems to be even too rumbly .. but those buds I will keep

Oh, and probably what made me compare them with the Tranya T3 first? Vol control on the buds, double click on either side vol up or down (and I think it's actually reversed from the T3, the zagzog go vol up on double click on the LEFT bud) ... 

I got some other new stuff as well and will chime in on those over the weekend ... but if those zagzog happen to show up on lightning deal (I paid 32€ instead of 40€) on your location's amazon, those are worth to at least check out IMHO.


----------



## CocaCola15

Decided to sell off the Senn MTW on ebay, got a decent price, and stick with the CA Melomania 1 (with the foam tips) and my latest purchase, the Tranya T1 Pro, which was $39 on Amazon. The latter are very good, comfy too. Need a bit of a tweak on the high end, a bit too crispy OOB. But once I got the EQ right, they really sound fantastic, balanced. So for less than I got back on resale for the Senns used, I have two very nice TW phones. Can't keep up with all the inexpensive options, but I do recommend the Tranyas.  Both phones have that big battery advantage, even though I would never wear them that long.


----------



## vstolpner (Jul 3, 2019)

Amazon.com sales:

- Tranya T3 for $40 after $10 coupon
- Astrotec Motivation (i.e. S80) for $41 at $5 coupon and lightning deal

Update: Amazon.ca deals too:
- Tranya T3 are on $10 coupon for $70 CAD total
- Tranya T1-Pro are on limited time deal for $63 CAD after additional $5 coupon


----------



## Caipirina

vstolpner said:


> Amazon.com sales:
> 
> - Tranya T3 for $40 after $10 coupon
> - Astrotec Motivation (i.e. S80) for $41 at $5 coupon and lightning deal
> ...




And amazon.de has the much beloved Bludio T-elf for 21.99€ ... and there is a reason why I am not directly linking


----------



## actorlife

Anbes 360 on sale for $29
Did anyone ever get these?
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07PHSK44C/ref=cm_sw_r_sms_apa_i_eqphDbACY4ZTS


----------



## vstolpner

actorlife said:


> Anbes 360 on sale for $29
> Did anyone ever get these?
> https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07PHSK44C/ref=cm_sw_r_sms_apa_i_eqphDbACY4ZTS



Or the Anbes D42 for that matter....

https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B07L9TBGWD/ref=dp_ob_neva_mobile


----------



## hifi80sman (Jul 3, 2019)

vstolpner said:


> Or the Anbes D42 for that matter....
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B07L9TBGWD/ref=dp_ob_neva_mobile


Love the Anbes naming convention.  "Anbes L99" successor to the Anbes D42.  Anbes 360, well, that's cheaper and not as good as the Anbes 359, yes the Anbes 358 is a downgrade from the 359.  Who is in charge of marketing over there?!

I almost wonder if the "BesDio" (say this with an accent) is a deliberate attempt at self-deprecating humor.


----------



## HiFlight (Jul 4, 2019)

Just got the Mifo05...beautiful phones and packaging, unfortunately, they have refused to pair together!  Back to Amazon.

EDIT:!!!   Finally got them paired.  Just need to be held close together when removing from case.  Sound is very good, Excellent vocals and quite accurate tonal balance.  So far, so good. 
P.S. I have the Professional model.
P.P.S:  Left earbud finally failed completely to pair with the right.  No matter what I do, it remains in pairing mode and I only get sound from the right side.  So back to Amazon.  
Relating it to the auto world, no matter how classy the body, if there is no engine, it is not a good deal!


----------



## actorlife

hifi80sman said:


> Love the Anbes naming convention.  "Anbes L99" successor to the Anbes D42.  Anbes 360, well, that's cheaper and not as good as the Anbes 359, yes the Anbes 358 is a downgrade from the 359.  Who is in charge of marketing over there?!
> 
> I almost wonder if the "BesDio" (say this with an accent) is a deliberate attempt at self-deprecating humor.


Those 359 cannot be beat especially at the price. Imagine them with aptx and 8hr battery at less than $50? Anbes needs to put out something new hopefully before Xmas. I just turned on a friend to the 359 and he was raving about them.


----------



## SilverEars (Jul 4, 2019)

Measurement of Jabra Elite 65t


----------



## vstolpner

HiFlight said:


> Just got the Mifo05...beautiful phones and packaging, unfortunately, they have refused to pair together!  Back to Amazon.
> 
> EDIT:!!!   Finally got them paired.  Just need to be held close together when removing from case.  Sound is very good, Excellent vocals and quite accurate tonal balance.  So far, so good.
> P.S. I have the Professional model.



You're really going to enjoy them! Mine are awesome, though I am enjoying the stronger base presence from my other dynamic models


----------



## FYLegend

SilverEars said:


> Measurement of Jabra Elite 65t


It's rather different from RTING's measurements, which also show the channel imbalance between both tracks. For me, the bass imbalance is quite obvious on my unit, although this could be down to my own hearing combined with wear and tear. A few posts back I mentioned that the pressure vents and nozzle need to be cleaned after a few months of use, or else the sound will become even more imbalanced. 






They also updated the review back in March 26 to mention reports of users getting hissing, but thought it wasn't worse than other devices out there. They also don't mention anything about clipping.

To me, the hissing is bad, but still bearable, what really irks me is the clipping distortion. I had noticed it on the store demo's Jabra Elite 65t Active as well. You won't notice them for upbeat tracks but pianos in particular sound awful. SBC quality on my Note 9 is awful but on my laptop (Asus Zenbook Pro 15) it's pretty close to AAC - just a tad less refined and sounds as if a dynamic compressor was used to make things more punchy. The Astrotec S60 on SBC has a similar issue as well.


----------



## mikp

FYLegend said:


> It's rather different from RTING's measurements, which also show the channel imbalance between both tracks. For me, the bass imbalance is quite obvious on my unit, although this could be down to my own hearing combined with wear and tear. A few posts back I mentioned that the pressure vents and nozzle need to be cleaned after a few months of use, or else the sound will become even more imbalanced.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



how do you clean the vents?


----------



## SilverEars (Jul 4, 2019)

FYLegend said:


> It's rather different from RTING's measurements, which also show the channel imbalance between both tracks. For me, the bass imbalance is quite obvious on my unit, although this could be down to my own hearing combined with wear and tear. A few posts back I mentioned that the pressure vents and nozzle need to be cleaned after a few months of use, or else the sound will become even more imbalanced.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That Rting graph is compensated graph, and below is there raw uncompensated one.  Which is the one you should compare with mine.



Here are two sets of measurements I've done for left and right.  You can see the slight imbalance.


----------



## vstolpner

SilverEars said:


> That Rting graph is compensated graph, and below is there raw uncompensated one.  Which is the one you should compare with mine.
> 
> 
> 
> Here are two sets of measurements I've done for left and right.  You can see the slight imbalance.




How do you do your measurements? Some high end specialized equipment?


----------



## SilverEars (Jul 4, 2019)

vstolpner said:


> How do you do your measurements? Some high end specialized equipment?


The most important element in the rig is the coupler.  You have to get the standarized coupler for precision, and then next is the microphone.  I'm not too experience in microphones, but some microphones are better than others, particularly in regards to noise (supposedly gets really costly for those with lowest noise input, if you are doing THD measurements).

GRAS couplers are industry standard, and I'm using IEC 60318-4 (60711) compliant coupler.  Something like this



This coupler simulates the human ear. You place the iem in the aperture of this coupler, and on the other end the microphone to measure the sound output.   Microphone will need a pre-amp, with maybe a Phantom Power supply (that comes with those cheap sound mixing interfaces).  For the iem, you'd plug to a normal sound output device connected to the computer (ie. usb DAC/Amp device, etc.. or optical connection), so that you can set them as output and input device on the measurement software (I use REW).

There's some details in regards to mic calibration and settings you'd have to prepare so that everything is set-up for most accurate measurements.  That is the most challenging part, but other than that, it's really easy to figure out.  We're all audiophiles, we play with connections all the times.

Here's the thread on measurements.

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/general-iem-measurements-discussions.903455/


----------



## vstolpner

SilverEars said:


> The most important element in the rig is the coupler.  You have to get the standarized coupler for precision, and then next is the microphone.  I'm not too experience in microphones, but some microphones are better than others, particularly in regards to noise (supposedly gets really costly for those with lowest noise input, if you are doing THD measurements).
> 
> GRAS couplers are industry standard, and I'm using IEC 60318-4 (60711) compliant coupler.  Something like this
> 
> ...



Darn, a little more complicated than I was hoping for :-/

But thanks for the info!


----------



## actorlife

Kissral on sale for $33. They look exactly like the Anbes, but not sure if it's the same SQ. Anybody wanna compare them? Say Yes.  
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07N1GXXFN/ref=cm_sw_r_sms_apa_i_hOHhDbEV6M5V3


----------



## BigZ12 (Jul 4, 2019)

I find it a little strange that nobody commented my Lypertek Tevi post. Very good specs!!
So it's not a well known TWS I guess?
https://www.lypertek.com/tevi

*SPECIFICATION:*
Driver: High Performance 6mm Graphene Driver
Frequency Response: 20 - 20kHz
Microphone: cVc 8.0 Noise Cancelling, Echo Cancellation, Noise Suppression
Bluetooth Specification: Bluetooth 5.0
Bluetooth Codec: Qualcomm aptX, AAC, SBC
Play Time (Max): Max 10 hours* And Max. 70 hours with Charging Case (*Volume 50% based on SBC)
Waterproof Level: IPX7
Features: Music & Volume Control, Phone Call & Voice Assistant Calls.


----------



## vstolpner

actorlife said:


> Kissral on sale for $33. They look exactly like the Anbes, but not sure if it's the same SQ. Anybody wanna compare them? Say Yes.
> https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07N1GXXFN/ref=cm_sw_r_sms_apa_i_hOHhDbEV6M5V3



At that price might be better to compare the Tranya T1-Pro... They're only a few dollars more


----------



## vstolpner

BigZ12 said:


> I find it a little strange that nobody commented my Lypertek Tevi post. Very good specs!!
> So it's not a well known TWS I guess?
> https://www.lypertek.com/tevi
> 
> ...



Good specs but don't see a price... Or where to buy them


----------



## BigZ12

vstolpner said:


> Good specs but don't see a price... Or where to buy them


https://www.lypertek.com/product-page/lypertek-tevi-truly-wireless-earphones
I haven't found another place to buy them than here. Wish they were a litt cheaper. Maybe someone can find them on another site with a lower price?


----------



## vstolpner

BigZ12 said:


> https://www.lypertek.com/product-page/lypertek-tevi-truly-wireless-earphones
> I haven't found another place to buy them than here. Wish they were a litt cheaper. Maybe someone can find them on another site with a lower price?



Yeah that's on the more expensive side of what people here purchase:
Anbes 359 - $30-$40
Tranya T3 - $40-$50
Lots of cheap $20-$30 buds
Anything close to $100 is typically from well known brands (Cambridge audio) or well reviewed units (Mavin Air-x / mifo O5)


----------



## BigZ12

vstolpner said:


> Yeah that's on the more expensive side of what people here purchase:
> Anbes 359 - $30-$40
> Tranya T3 - $40-$50
> Lots of cheap $20-$30 buds
> Anything close to $100 is typically from well known brands (Cambridge audio) or well reviewed units (Mavin Air-x / mifo O5)


The specs (Aptx, AAC, graphene diaphragm, battery, IPX7) and price puts them close to the Creative Outlier Air, which I've been considering lately.


----------



## mikp

BigZ12 said:


> https://www.lypertek.com/product-page/lypertek-tevi-truly-wireless-earphones
> I haven't found another place to buy them than here. Wish they were a litt cheaper. Maybe someone can find them on another site with a lower price?



im guessing it uses qcc3020 chip, not 3026 so 89$ shipped seems now a little high. But specs look ok, complete with graphene buzzword. (hey no one can prove it isnt..)
https://www.0db.co.kr/FREE/678549  list of qcc tws.

I think most here are waiting for the next gen, or something special. Not counting those that can use amazon return policy on cheap generic tws.


----------



## vstolpner

Has anyone heard of the TEZER X20? They look like Alteroila IE600, but are on a crazy Amazon lightning deal for $35 CAD...

Wireless Earbuds TEZER X20 Bluetooth 5.0 True Wireless Earphones IPX5 Automatic Connection 36H Playtime Hi-Fi Stereo with Built-in Mic and Charging Case for Travelling and Exercise https://www.amazon.ca/dp/B07H3P8QRJ/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_i_zPIhDb0GGZXYG


----------



## vstolpner

mikp said:


> https://www.0db.co.kr/FREE/678549  list of qcc tws.



Am I reading that right that 1more has a QCC5121 TWS coming?


----------



## actorlife

BigZ12 said:


> I find it a little strange that nobody commented my Lypertek Tevi post. Very good specs!!
> So it's not a well known TWS I guess?
> https://www.lypertek.com/tevi
> 
> ...


Great specs thanks bigz. If this is less than $50 I may give it a try. I own a Graphene Driver TWS and I really like it.


----------



## actorlife

vstolpner said:


> Has anyone heard of the TEZER X20? They look like Alteroila IE600, but are on a crazy Amazon lightning deal for $35 CAD...
> 
> Wireless Earbuds TEZER X20 Bluetooth 5.0 True Wireless Earphones IPX5 Automatic Connection 36H Playtime Hi-Fi Stereo with Built-in Mic and Charging Case for Travelling and Exercise https://www.amazon.ca/dp/B07H3P8QRJ/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_i_zPIhDb0GGZXYG


Utter Muddy trash. I bought both of them at the same time cause they looked alike to see if the SQ was the same. Teezer got returned the next day. The Alterola IE600 is the one you want period.


----------



## BigZ12

actorlife said:


> Utter Muddy trash. I bought both of them at the same time cause they looked alike to see if the SQ was the same. Teezer got returned the next day. The Alterola IE600 is the one you want period.


IE600, just SBC codec?


----------



## vstolpner

actorlife said:


> Utter Muddy trash. I bought both of them at the same time cause they looked alike to see if the SQ was the same. Teezer got returned the next day. The Alterola IE600 is the one you want period.



Thanks for that! Saved me some hassle


----------



## mikp

vstolpner said:


> Am I reading that right that 1more has a QCC5121 TWS coming?



i think thats an old rumour


----------



## vstolpner

Anyone heard of either of these? Trying to find something in the size of Apple AirPods (case)....

T2 Touch
https://s.click.aliexpress.com/e/ch6y5EuY

Generic TWS 2000mah
https://s.click.aliexpress.com/e/bpQQ4uD6

T9 IP67
https://s.click.aliexpress.com/e/cAHJDBUM


----------



## vstolpner

mikp said:


> i think thats an old rumour



Darn.... So is there anything semi confirmed at least for QCC51xx?


----------



## mikp

vstolpner said:


> Darn.... So is there anything semi confirmed at least for QCC51xx?


http://www.52audio.com/archives/13691.html


----------



## actorlife

BigZ12 said:


> IE600, just SBC codec?


I think so. Still sound great though IMHO. There is also a IE800. Not sure if there is a difference in SQ though. Seems only a different look of the Earbuds. Both are 6hr battery.


----------



## Caipirina

vstolpner said:


> Anyone heard of either of these? Trying to find something in the size of Apple AirPods (case)....
> 
> T2 Touch
> https://s.click.aliexpress.com/e/ch6y5EuY
> ...




I would probably check out that last one, just because cheap    Always been fascinated by that bullet shape form factor


----------



## vstolpner

Caipirina said:


> I would probably check out that last one, just because cheap    Always been fascinated by that bullet shape form factor



I know... If only they were actually bullets style.... Not just really close to it... :-/


----------



## HiFlight

vstolpner said:


> You're really going to enjoy them! Mine are awesome, though I am enjoying the stronger base presence from my other dynamic models


Well, I was only able to pair them together once, then thereafter the left side refused to get out of pairing mode regardless of resetting, following all instructions multiple times, etc.  They are now, regrettably, boxed and ready for return.  I decided to keep my Creative Outlier Air Sport, as it is far less picky about pairing and has a more dynamic SQ than the did the Mifo.   Plus 10 hours per charge is right at the top of the list as of now.  

I really liked the fit and comfort of the Mifo but the pairing hassle was just too agravating.  I feel certain there was some type of malfunction that kept the left side from pairing with the right, although that issue had been reported several times by different users.   It was supposed to pair automatically upon removing from the charging case, but didn't.


----------



## Caipirina

Another day, another delivery ... I received THESE today (18$ from AliX after 2$ coupon) and am very happy to report that they don't suck either  


 

First I was laughing that the so often typo of True / Ture made it as a name onto the product package .... pairing was fairly easy, but I noticed that the 2 buds are identical and have no L/R marks .. so, listen to the voices in your head. 

The other slightly weird thing is that they only came with one extra set of same size ear tips. Took me a while to find some other tips that fit my ear better AND let the buds still fit in the case. Those 'shafts' inside the ear tip on this one are pretty recessed. But with a good fit I am getting pretty nice sound. Not stellar, some passages sounded a bit harsh (but that could also have been my source files) ... will hopefully have some more time over the weekend and will write some more about my 5 odd new entries. 

Oh, and 2600mAh power bank feature is nice, as long as you do not forget to bring that little dongle with you. The case in shape and size (and matte finish, though plastic, not metal, reminds me of the Mifo case)


----------



## actorlife

Caipirina said:


> Another day, another delivery ... I received THESE today (18$ from AliX after 2$ coupon) and am very happy to report that they don't suck either
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Congrats. Those look decent. I really like the thin case in blue. Looking forward to hear more of the SQ sound.


----------



## Caipirina (Jul 4, 2019)

actorlife said:


> Congrats. Those look decent. I really like the thin case in blue. Looking forward to hear more of the SQ sound.



The case is nice, a bit heavy because of the extra battery .. the buds themselves feel somewhat cheap and I have a feeling they have been used in other models, like THIS one



This listing does not exist anymore, but those are also called T1 ... for 16$ I pulled a trigger a while ago, did not notice until much later that the buds (and T1 name) are identical .. going to be interesting to compare  (actually, I just checked on them, i ordered May 30 .. and they still have not arrived and tracking status is kinda wonky ... i guess those will never show up and i get 16$ back   ) 

Will do some more listening over the next few days, but the SQ was not immediate 'I hate it',  which is a good start


----------



## actorlife (Jul 4, 2019)

I like the looks of these at $35 claim 6hr battery:
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07KY6VFXN/ref=cm_sw_r_sms_apa_i_VTMhDbV66M22W



I really like the looks of the new MEE. 4.5hrs and no aptx for $70 is not cutting it for me though. $30-40 sale maybe.



If they ever make a version of the Soundmagic PL50 on TWS sign me up. These were my first pair of BA earphones.



I also have a KZ ZST version of of BA/Dynamic combo that I like as well. Hopefully KZ will roll them out as well In TWS.

$36 Another new TWS with a familiar spaceship casing, although the earbuds look different:
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07QK9TD64/ref=cm_sw_r_sms_apa_i_skNhDb7E7PEXF


----------



## FYLegend

mikp said:


> how do you clean the vents?


Only way I could find is to use a needle and gently pry around.


----------



## Caipirina

actorlife said:


> I also have a KZ ZST version of of BA/Dynamic combo that I like as well. Hopefully KZ will roll them out as well In TWS.



I use the BT20 bluetooth modules from TRN to turn all my KZ IEMs into TWE    I keep hearing KZ might work on their own model


----------



## actorlife

Caipirina said:


> I use the BT20 bluetooth modules from TRN to turn all my KZ IEMs into TWE    I keep hearing KZ might work on their own model


How is the fit? I am a bit weary about those and connection wise. The KZ wired bt ones are known to suck.


----------



## Caipirina

actorlife said:


> How is the fit? I am a bit weary about those and connection wise. The KZ wired bt ones are known to suck.



The fit is actually great, some ppl complain that the wire from module to IEM is too stiff or not the exact shape they want, but with a hairdryer and some hot air this can be fixed ... I love that I can take most of my IEMs on the road like this (by now I got both, .75mm and MMCX versions) and the connection has never been an issue ... some ppl report a minimal hiss, which also depends / differs from IEM to IEM, but frankly, I am not putting them on BT for critical listening .. this is for walking / running where I battle other noises. 

And yes, those KZ wired cables were sucky, but TRN delivered IMHO with the BT3 and the BT20 ... there's now even the BT20S that has AptX (which is not much of interest for me ... iOS child here   )


----------



## Bartig

vstolpner said:


> I have read it (awesome post btw!)
> I'm currently using the mifo O5 professional, and while it's amazing in most aspects, it does lack in base a bit. The Anbes 359 are great, but don't have the level of clarity in looking for. So I guess I'm just wondering between the ones in your post, which ones would you recommend for having some base, very good separation and soundstage, and a relatively balanced sound signature?
> 
> Also, does the Qualcomm chip in the 1more set make a difference in connectivity? Or the aptx codec in sound quality?


As for your last two questions: no,I haven't yet discovered a difference. 

As for your search quest: I just received the Tranya T1-Pro and they fit your requirements totally. That's two great Tranya's in a row. Impressive.


----------



## actorlife (Jul 4, 2019)

Caipirina said:


> The fit is actually great, some ppl complain that the wire from module to IEM is too stiff or not the exact shape they want, but with a hairdryer and some hot air this can be fixed ... I love that I can take most of my IEMs on the road like this (by now I got both, .75mm and MMCX versions) and the connection has never been an issue ... some ppl report a minimal hiss, which also depends / differs from IEM to IEM, but frankly, I am not putting them on BT for critical listening .. this is for walking / running where I battle other noises.
> 
> And yes, those KZ wired cables were sucky, but TRN delivered IMHO with the BT3 and the BT20 ... there's now even the BT20S that has AptX (which is not much of interest for me ... iOS child here   )


Damn which version fits the KZ ZST? 75mm or MMCX? Can you link them?


----------



## vstolpner (Jul 4, 2019)

Caipirina said:


> there's now even the BT20S that has AptX (which is not much of interest for me ... iOS child here   )



Actually the BT20S support AAC, while BT20 only do SBC if I recall



Bartig said:


> As for your search quest: I just received the Tranya T1-Pro and they fit your requirements totally. That's two great Tranya's in a row. Impressive.



How do the T1-PRO compare to the T3? I ordered the T3, now wondering if I should have tried T1-PRO?



actorlife said:


> Damn which version fits the KZ ZST? 75mm or MMCX? Can you link them?



KZ all use 0.75mm, as do TRN. Let me find a link.....

TRN BT20 
https://s.click.aliexpress.com/e/0hPV1io

TRN BT20S (Aptx/AAC and some waterproofing) 
https://s.click.aliexpress.com/e/bySKvDeY


----------



## vstolpner

HiFlight said:


> Well, I was only able to pair them together once, then thereafter the left side refused to get out of pairing mode regardless of resetting, following all instructions multiple times, etc.  They are now, regrettably, boxed and ready for return.  I decided to keep my Creative Outlier Air Sport, as it is far less picky about pairing and has a more dynamic SQ than the did the Mifo.   Plus 10 hours per charge is right at the top of the list as of now.
> 
> I really liked the fit and comfort of the Mifo but the pairing hassle was just too agravating.  I feel certain there was some type of malfunction that kept the left side from pairing with the right, although that issue had been reported several times by different users.   It was supposed to pair automatically upon removing from the charging case, but didn't.



To be honest I've had some connectivity drop outs with my mifo's as well. 
As for dynamic range - the pro version uses BA's so you won't get much base. But that said, I get a bit more base out of my Knowles BA IEMs.

And I agree about the design/looks/comfort - these are hands down amazing in that department.


----------



## Caipirina

actorlife said:


> Damn which version fits the KZ ZST? 75mm or MMCX? Can you link them?



Most KZ IEMs are .75mm 2 pin connectors ... MMCX looks quite different... 
Those are the ones I got  https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32952605954.html


----------



## zazaboy

guys what is right now the best option if you want a bluetooth headphone for details and soundstage? I see that anbes 369 are favorite right now or are there better options? can you give me some advice ...


----------



## chinmie

vstolpner said:


> Actually the BT20S support AAC, while BT20 only do SBC if I recall



the BT20 can do AAC. i have one paired to my Kanas. the new BT20S added APTX support, longer battery life, and new coating to the outer shell. i ordered the MMCX BT20S for my other earphones


----------



## actorlife (Jul 4, 2019)

zazaboy said:


> guys what is right now the best option if you want a bluetooth headphone for details and soundstage? I see that anbes 369 are favorite right now or are there better options? can you give me some advice ...


IMHO no the Anbes 359 are hard to beat especially at having a great soundstage. Stop making excuses just get them you won't regret it. Hopefully you can find them they are selling out on amazon US for almost two weeks.

Thanks guys if I find the BT20s for cheap I'll get them. Aptx and 8hrs is a good thing.


----------



## Dobrescu George

james444 said:


> If there's one brand I've been hoping for to go true wireless, then it's Hifiman.
> 
> Their cables have always been crappy as hell.



Ironically, I always wished I had better cables for Sundara. But somehow, it feels like I'll never upgrade its cables, they just work too well for me to want to upgrade it lol


----------



## zazaboy

Guys how do you get notified on amazon .. I see anbes 359 is sold out.. Can you set a Reminder or notaficition to mail.. When product is back?


----------



## actorlife

zazaboy said:


> Guys how do you get notified on amazon .. I see anbes 359 is sold out.. Can you set a Reminder or notaficition to mail.. When product is back?


Pool


zazaboy said:


> Guys how do you get notified on amazon .. I see anbes 359 is sold out.. Can you set a Reminder or notaficition to mail.. When product is back?


Check eBay too. Also check for a brand Kissral look a couple pages back I linked it from amazon.


----------



## vstolpner

actorlife said:


> Pool
> 
> Check eBay too. Also check for a brand Kissral look a couple pages back I linked it from amazon.



@zazaboy 
Or order on AliExpress
https://s.click.aliexpress.com/e/c6NRSrTa


----------



## zazaboy

Oké thanks all apreciate it


----------



## Slater

vstolpner said:


> Actually the BT20S support AAC, while BT20 only do SBC if I recall



BT20 does AAC (it is undocumented by TRN). BT20S does AAC and aptX.


----------



## vstolpner

Slater said:


> BT20 does AAC (it is undocumented by TRN). BT20S does AAC and aptX.



Weird, I thought I saw it using SBC on my phone.


----------



## osmium2

BigAund said:


> So apparently the Melomania are not compatible with the Nokia 7.1 on Android 9 (no idea why!). Be warned that these may have issues on other Android ONE phones running 9. I've had no issues with any other wireless earphones (Bragi Headphone, Earin M2, Sennheiser MTW, Sylable 101) but the Cambridge Audio Melomania are incompatible!!! this comes from a CA response to a review I posted on their website incidentally.
> 
> I don't know if CA are active on this site but if you are, your response times are totally unacceptable as well!



My Melomania 1 is not compatible with Nokia phones too. I tried the Nokia 6, Nokia 7 plus and Nokia 8.1 and they all don't work. Sony and Google phones just work though. What a disappointment as I just like these pair of headphone.
I tried to message Cambrigde Audio support through email, and they seems OK for me to return them.

But I guess I am keeping my pair and just use it with my zx300 walkman, until I get a new phone.


----------



## FYLegend

BigZ12 said:


> https://www.lypertek.com/product-page/lypertek-tevi-truly-wireless-earphones
> I haven't found another place to buy them than here. Wish they were a litt cheaper. Maybe someone can find them on another site with a lower price?


The other day I saw a "Lyperkin" TWS with AptX, basically a rebrand of YTOM T1-AptX/WaveFun X-Pods 3. I was considering them but one of the users here said it was a let-down with disconnects and poor tuning. So AptX doesn't always mean better sound...

Creative Outlier Air has mixed impressions here, but unfortunately Creative SG said there aren't shipping to Canada yet.


----------



## vstolpner

FYLegend said:


> The other day I saw a "Lyperkin" TWS with AptX, basically a rebrand of YTOM T1-AptX/WaveFun X-Pods 3. I was considering them but one of the users here said it was a let-down with disconnects and poor tuning. So AptX doesn't always mean better sound...
> 
> Creative Outlier Air has mixed impressions here, but unfortunately Creative SG said there aren't shipping to Canada yet.



Why not ship to a PO box just past the border?


----------



## 40760




----------



## d3myz

the rubber cover just came off my second pair of Anbes 359  So I Just ordered the Anbes D42, should be here on Sat. and will post my comparison. 
https://www.amazon.com/Wireless-Ear...coding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=5HWVQTSK8D03DP32CJ7A


----------



## vstolpner

d3myz said:


> the rubber cover just came off my second pair of Anbes 359  So I Just ordered the Anbes D42, should be here on Sat. and will post my comparison.
> https://www.amazon.com/Wireless-Ear...coding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=5HWVQTSK8D03DP32CJ7A



Sorry to hear... But looking forward to the comparison!

I also saw this Anbes that looks like it may be a 359 v2.
C$ 35.74  21%OFF | ANBES 358 Bluetooth Earphone Mini Bluetooth 5.0 Headphones Wireless Earphones Hands-free Headset For iPhone Xiaomi Samsung
https://s.click.aliexpress.com/e/b7mPXLo4


----------



## vstolpner (Jul 5, 2019)

palestofwhite said:


>




Looks interesting!

$230, coming any day now I guess. But the case looks really bulky!

https://www.techradar.com/news/sony-unveils-wf-1000xm3-truly-wireless-noise-cancelling-earbuds


----------



## mikp

palestofwhite said:


>



Only aac, sbc and no volume control.  so close


----------



## 40760 (Jul 5, 2019)

vstolpner said:


> Looks interesting!
> 
> $230, coming any day now I guess. But the case looks really bulky!



The pictures don't justify how beautiful and well made the case or earpieces really are... Here's a video albeit in Japanese...


----------



## Caipirina

vstolpner said:


> Looks interesting!
> 
> $230, coming any day now I guess. But the case looks really bulky!
> 
> https://www.techradar.com/news/sony-unveils-wf-1000xm3-truly-wireless-noise-cancelling-earbuds



Owning both the WF...whatever that first model was and then the SP700N sporty ones ... I've grown weary of Sony in the TWE department ...  will wait for the Bose TWS 700


----------



## FYLegend

vstolpner said:


> Why not ship to a PO box just past the border?


Was considering that but can't really be bothered driving there, but that's just me. 

I'm wondering if anyone here has tried Mee Audio X10. There's a lot of good reviews now but I'm taking them with a grain of salt and not sure about what codecs it uses. It's currently 69.99 at Memory Express (though it's out of stock in all BC stores and it's 8.99 for shipping - still seems like a good deal though)


----------



## nc8000 (Jul 5, 2019)

vstolpner said:


> Looks interesting!
> 
> $230, coming any day now I guess. But the case looks really bulky!
> 
> https://www.techradar.com/news/sony-unveils-wf-1000xm3-truly-wireless-noise-cancelling-earbuds



No LDAC and according to a test by a Danish magazine they still suffer from occasional drop outs


----------



## Soreniglio

These seem to be good :


----------



## Soreniglio

These claim to have Ambient Mode:
https://it.aliexpress.com/item/3296...&spm=a2g0y.12010615.8148356.38.61182d16VBajGg


----------



## rhsauer

BigZ12 said:


> I find it a little strange that nobody commented my Lypertek Tevi post. Very good specs!!
> So it's not a well known TWS I guess?
> https://www.lypertek.com/tevi
> 
> ...



They look very much like a rebrand of the Mpow T5


----------



## pack21 (Jul 5, 2019)

Dobrescu George said:


> 1 More TWS
> 
> https://usa.1more.com/products/1more-stylish-true-wireless-in-ear-headphones


Thanks, will received mine Creative Outlier Air today.


----------



## srinivasvignesh (Jul 5, 2019)

New True Wireless, ANC earphone from Sony.  $230 and seems pretty intriguing despite the absence of higher resolution codecs.

The same chip that is is responsible for 24-bit digital-to-audio conversion and noise cancellation as in the WH-1000XM3 (highly regarded)

Bluetooth 5.0
USB Type C
SBC and AAC only
6 + 18 hours of battery life with ANC.
Ambient noise support

https://www.techradar.com/news/sony-unveils-wf-1000xm3-truly-wireless-noise-cancelling-earbuds


----------



## vladzakhar

I am using Creative Outlier Air earbuds for couple of days. Really like them so far.

Pros:
Nice clean sound, separation, good soundstage. Not for bass heads, though.
No dropouts, long battery life (not 10h, maybe 7-8h).
Light speed connection with my Iphone. 
Very light weight and fit very well, no fatigue after several hours of use.
The case looks sturdy and has the nice shape, bit big, though.

Cons:
Annoying flashing lid lights on earbuds all the time, while not in use and not in the case. (Why?)
Light is bright and can be bothersome at night time in the dark room.
The buttons are hard to press.

They reminds me a lot of Senns Momentums, but much cheaper.


----------



## 40760




----------



## webvan

Huh CNET, nothing about the ANC ?!
These guys have more to say about ANC and with the translated CC it seems they're not too impressed when compared with the WHmkIII at 3:42 ?


----------



## clerkpalmer

webvan said:


> Huh CNET, nothing about the ANC ?!
> These guys have more to say about ANC and with the translated CC it seems they're not too impressed when compared with the WHmkIII at 3:42 ?



Not sweatproof????? Fail!


----------



## webvan

I'm not too bothered about that aspect honestly because for sports, at least the outdoor sports that I do like running and biking, it seems impossible to top the X12 at this point thanks to their earbud design.


----------



## nc8000

webvan said:


> Huh CNET, nothing about the ANC ?!
> These guys have more to say about ANC and with the translated CC it seems they're not too impressed when compared with the WHmkIII at 3:42 ?




The Danish magazine review I read rated the anc as nearly as good as on the full size 1000XM3


----------



## webvan

That would be something ! The Japanese guys seem to be saying that the isolation is not very good in the first place, hence the "so so" results ? There could be something lost in the translation of course.
It's mind boggling that CNET had nothing to say about that aspect, seems impossible that they didn't test it...


----------



## nc8000

clerkpalmer said:


> Not sweatproof????? Fail!



Yes nowhere is there any mention of any ipx rating


----------



## Bartig

vstolpner said:


> Actually the BT20S support AAC, while BT20 only do SBC if I recall
> 
> 
> 
> ...


The Tranya T1-Pro and T3 both are amazing. The latter has a more engaging and textured bass and sounds a bit darker. The T1-Pro sounds a bit more airy, has a somewhat brighter sound and also a less detailed bass.


----------



## SilverEars (Jul 5, 2019)

nc8000 said:


> The Danish magazine review I read rated the anc as nearly as good as on the full size 1000XM3


I hope that is true!  If that is true, I'm looking forward to a TW with ANC.  The biggest feature I'm looking for.  The performance of the ANC has to be worthwhile with good battery life.

ANC has to beat passive noise isolation of ER4. Only then is the iem ANC worthwhile.


----------



## nc8000

SilverEars said:


> I hope that is true!  If that is true, I'm looking forward to a TW with ANC.  The biggest feature I'm looking for.  The performance of the ANC has to be worthwhile with good battery life.
> 
> ANC has to beat passive noise isolation of ER4. Only then is the iem ANC worthwhile.



Well the ER4 with brain implant tripple flange tips are exceptional in that respect and many just can’t get used to them and then they are wired. And then ofcourse anc will always add it’s own flavour to the sound which some just can’t take


----------



## Luchyres

Head's up for those of you interested: Amazon has the new Sony's up for pre-order for an August 8ish ship date. $230

Sony WF-1000XM3 Industry Leading Noise Canceling Truly Wireless Earbuds, Black https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07T81554H/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_i_ol1hDbMDKYE9Y


----------



## clerkpalmer

Luchyres said:


> Head's up for those of you interested: Amazon has the new Sony's up for pre-order for an August 8ish ship date. $230
> 
> Sony WF-1000XM3 Industry Leading Noise Canceling Truly Wireless Earbuds, Black https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07T81554H/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_i_ol1hDbMDKYE9Y



On this topic, Amazon may not prime 2 day these.  They seem to ship things with lithium batteries slowly nowadays.  When I last bought TW headphones from Sony on Amazon, they came via snail mail from California - took like 5 days.  For that reason, I'm going with Best Buy.


----------



## SilverEars (Jul 5, 2019)

nc8000 said:


> Well the ER4 with brain implant tripple flange tips are exceptional in that respect and many just can’t get used to them and then they are wired. And then ofcourse anc will always add it’s own flavour to the sound which some just can’t take


True, but based on my experience, ANC like the full-sized XM3 beats ER4 in a very high noise environments.  That's how good the ANC is.  This is for low frequencies of course, and that's most practical for me because the usage will be in planes to drown out engine noise.  And I really like light compact small formfactors when out and about.  I don't like to walk around with bulky full-sized.  Lighter load to carry around when traveling the better.

Once a good ANC is implimented with good enough sound, it will be my practical iem for all usage other than for SQ.


----------



## chinmie

SilverEars said:


> True, but based on my experience ANC like the full-sized XM3 beats ER4 in a very high noise environments.  That's how good the ANC is.  This is for low frequencies of course, and that's most practical for me because the usage will be in planes to drown out engine noise.  And I really like light compact small formfactors when out and about.  I don't like to walk around with bulky full-sized.
> 
> Once a good ANC is implimented with good enough sound, it will be my practical iem for all usage other than for SQ.



yes, using the XM3 in a noisy place and turning the ANC on is trippy good. too bad the sound signature is not my liking.

if this mark 3 sounds like the first gen, i might jump in and buy


----------



## srinivasvignesh

SilverEars said:


> I hope that is true!  If that is true, I'm looking forward to a TW with ANC.  The biggest feature I'm looking for.  The performance of the ANC has to be worthwhile with good battery life.
> 
> ANC has to beat passive noise isolation of ER4. Only then is the iem ANC worthwhile.



Have to respectfully disagree. The tri-flanges and deep isolation are incredibly uncomfortable, for at least a subset of people, including me.


----------



## SilverEars

chinmie said:


> yes, using the XM3 in a noisy place and turning the ANC on is trippy good. too bad the sound signature is not my liking.
> 
> if this mark 3 sounds like the first gen, i might jump in and buy


Bass is a bit much, but I'd take it's bass response over Beats Studio bass any day.  I like the upper frequencies more than QC35 however.


----------



## chinmie

SilverEars said:


> Bass is a bit much, but I'd take it's bass response over Beats Studio bass any day.  I like the upper frequencies more than QC35 however.



yup, the midbass is a bit much for my taste, and the overall sound is too warm. but still, not a bad bass per se


----------



## webvan

I've run quite a few passive vs ANC isolation tests on transatlantic flights, notably with the Klipsch S4 that isolate as much as the ER4 in my experience (double-flange and deap insertion) vs the QNC15, and it's pretty close. ANC does better on the bottom end of the spectrum but not as well on the top end or voices. The advantage of course if the lack of deep insertion that will irritate all ears after a while. What works well too are standard TWEs, even better with isolating ones like the 65t, with Peltor Earmufs, even the smaller (yellow model) Optime I.

The Bose QC20 have practically zero passive isolation but a great ANC that just filters out the noise and makes for a peaceful listening but will not help with people talking nearby. The new Sony's will probably do better since they have to have better passive isolation. The Japanese guys didn't seem to be too impressed though based on the translated captions.


----------



## RobinFood

webvan said:


> That would be something ! The Japanese guys seem to be saying that the isolation is not very good in the first place, hence the "so so" results ? There could be something lost in the translation of course.
> It's mind boggling that CNET had nothing to say about that aspect, seems impossible that they didn't test it...



I just watched the video (I speak Japanese), and on the contrary, he said the isolation was very good if you can get a good fit, enough that you almost don't need the noise cancelling. He rated the noise cancelling function as being about 90% of the WH1000X-M2 (over ears), but the passive isolation to be much better.

He said the sound was good with a 3d soundstage, but that the instrument separation wasn't as crisp as it could be, and compared it to various kinds of fried rice, and said it was like a moist fried rice that sticks together, and not a dryer fried rice that is crispy. I guess the bass probably adds weight and hurts imaging (?). He rated the sound as top class right now for TWE.

He also said the connection was great (on e-earphones it says they use a class 1 bluetooth chip) and that connecting to a source was extremely fast.

His complaint was that to get a good fit, you need to use both hands to push the ear back and twist it in, and the touch buttons that get activated when you are trying to get them to fit in properly.


----------



## webvan

Good news thanks, the translated subtitles probably got confused over the "difficult to get a good fit" part  I had the same problem with the MkI, I had to dig out some old Sony "hybride" (with foam inside) tips to get a good seal, the new hybrids and the silicone's didn't work.


----------



## actorlife (Jul 5, 2019)

d3myz said:


> the rubber cover just came off my second pair of Anbes 359  So I Just ordered the Anbes D42, should be here on Sat. and will post my comparison.
> https://www.amazon.com/Wireless-Ear...coding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=5HWVQTSK8D03DP32CJ7A


Why not the 360? or the kissral? Can you still return the 359? Ya gotta baby these TWS I guess.
Arg. 
I'd rather buy 7 $30 TWS instead of that new Sony.


----------



## d3myz

Not sure, I like the look of the D42's better and they have a better rating on Amazon than the 360. I can't return the 359's and they aren't available on amazon anymore.  looks like the battery life is only 3.5 compared to the 359/360's 4-4.5 hours. I really like my 359's but no matter what tips I use they always dig into my ears when i'm pressing on the button i'm hoping the D42 design will be better. I don't know how legit it is but I read a review comparison between the two and because I listen to mostly podcasts it seems the D42's will be better for me. https://nerdtechy.com/anbes-359-d42-review


----------



## d3myz

vstolpner said:


> Sorry to hear... But looking forward to the comparison!
> 
> I also saw this Anbes that looks like it may be a 359 v2.
> C$ 35.74  21%OFF | ANBES 358 Bluetooth Earphone Mini Bluetooth 5.0 Headphones Wireless Earphones Hands-free Headset For iPhone Xiaomi Samsung
> https://s.click.aliexpress.com/e/b7mPXLo4


That appears to be the 358, it's a sport headphone in a silicon covered housing, looks neat, but there is not volume control. The 360 was/is the successor of the 359, and the D42 is the newest earbud Anbes makes. from this comparison it sounds like the sound is similar to the 359 but with more pronounced vocals. https://nerdtechy.com/anbes-359-d42-review


----------



## hifi80sman

palestofwhite said:


>



I WANT THOSE SO BAD.


----------



## hifi80sman

srinivasvignesh said:


> New True Wireless, ANC earphone from Sony.  $230 and seems pretty intriguing despite the absence of higher resolution codecs.
> 
> The same chip that is is responsible for 24-bit digital-to-audio conversion and noise cancellation as in the WH-1000XM3 (highly regarded)
> 
> ...


Being an iPhone is my primary device, I'm good with AAC.  I also have an s8, but I do wonder if AAC implementation on Sony's line of phones is better than the competition.


----------



## d3myz

These Sony's have a 6 hour battery life? For how big they are, i'd think it'd be better. I wonder what chip they are based on. And no AptX or AptX HD. https://www.sony.com/electronics/truly-wireless/wf-1000xm3/specifications


----------



## actorlife

d3myz said:


> Not sure, I like the look of the D42's better and they have a better rating on Amazon than the 360. I can't return the 359's and they aren't available on amazon anymore.  looks like the battery life is only 3.5 compared to the 359/360's 4-4.5 hours. I really like my 359's but no matter what tips I use they always dig into my ears when i'm pressing on the button i'm hoping the D42 design will be better. I don't know how legit it is but I read a review comparison between the two and because I listen to mostly podcasts it seems the D42's will be better for me. https://nerdtechy.com/anbes-359-d42-review


Are you in the US? Why not order the kissral on amazon it's on sale for $32. I have a friend who loves the 359 and wanted a backup, but they were sold out and he ordered the kissral. Looking forward to his review.


----------



## nc8000

d3myz said:


> These Sony's have a 6 hour battery life? For how big they are, i'd think it'd be better. I wonder what chip they are based on. And no AptX or AptX HD. https://www.sony.com/electronics/truly-wireless/wf-1000xm3/specifications



Based on Sony’s own chip and the 6 hours is with anc on, they should hit 8 hours with anc off


----------



## d3myz

I like the 359's, not love. They are the least comfortable TWS I own and after owning two pair where the rubber button has come off, i'm not about to waste my money on a third. I've never been one to hear the wide soundstage everyone talks about. my T1 Pros have a MUCH wider sound stage and even my Tiso I4's soundstage is as wide if not wider. I do love the battery life, volume control, bass and loudness, but I hardly listen to music, so it's not really that important to me. we'll see how the D42's are. If i was smart, i'd probably grab the TRN BT20s and hook my Ibasso It01's up to them.


----------



## BigZ12

d3myz said:


> the rubber cover just came off my second pair of Anbes 359  So I Just ordered the Anbes D42, should be here on Sat. and will post my comparison.
> https://www.amazon.com/Wireless-Ear...coding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=5HWVQTSK8D03DP32CJ7A


Did you lose the rubber cover?
If not, I have used super glue on both my covers. Cleaned it well before applying.
Now they are really well attached, and working fine. 
Used a drop og glue on the tip of a plastic tooth pick and gently applied the adhesive around the button.


----------



## actorlife

d3myz said:


> I like the 359's, not love. They are the least comfortable TWS I own and after owning two pair where the rubber button has come off, i'm not about to waste my money on a third. I've never been one to hear the wide soundstage everyone talks about. my T1 Pros have a MUCH wider sound stage and even my Tiso I4's soundstage is as wide if not wider. I do love the battery life, volume control, bass and loudness, but I hardly listen to music, so it's not really that important to me. we'll see how the D42's are. If i was smart, i'd probably grab the TRN BT20s and hook my Ibasso It01's up to them.


Does the Tiso I4 have vol control? I may bite if yes. 6hr battery is within my battery range and 20 bucks.


----------



## vstolpner

actorlife said:


> Does the Tiso I4 have vol control? I may bite if yes. 6hr battery is within my battery range and 20 bucks.



Doesn't say anywhere on their description, but I've got one coming from AliExpress, so can tell you when I get it


----------



## actorlife (Jul 5, 2019)

vstolpner said:


> Doesn't say anywhere on their description, but I've got one coming from AliExpress, so can tell you when I get it



Style: Ear Hook
Communication: Wireless
Connectors: None
Wireless Type: Bluetooth
Vocalism Principle: Dynamic
Control Button: Yes
Volume Control: No
Active Noise-Cancellation: No
Function: For Mobile Phone,for Video Game,HiFi Headphone,For iPod,Sport
Plug Type: Wireless
Sensitivity: 108±3dB
Frequency Response Range: 20-20000Hz
Line Length: None
Resistance: 32Ω
Waterproof: Yes
Model Number: i4
Support Memory Card: No
Support APP: No
Is wireless: Yes
With Microphone: Yes
For 20 buck without is ok I guess, just wondering if they have like a I5 or I6 with vol?


----------



## vstolpner

actorlife said:


> For 20 buck without is ok I guess, just wondering if they have like a I5 or I6 with vol?



They have i5 and ix, but neither mention volume control either. 
I'll actually reach out to them to find out


----------



## actorlife (Jul 5, 2019)

vstolpner said:


> They have i5 and ix, but neither mention volume control either.
> I'll actually reach out to them to find out


Both don't support vol. Maybe I'll wait to see if you think it has a larger soundstage and sparkly highs than the Anbes.  I like the fact that they are Sensitivity: 108±3dB, which should be pretty dang loud. Bartig has these too lets see what he say when he gets the 359.


----------



## vstolpner

actorlife said:


> Both don't support vol. Maybe I'll wait to see if you think it has a larger soundstage and sparkly highs than the Anbes.  I like the fact that they are Sensitivity: 108±3dB, which should be pretty dang loud. Bartig has these too lets see what he say when he gets the 359.



Will let you guys know! 

Btw, have you tried the Astrotec Motivation / S80? That one has very sparkly highs, bordering on sibilance for some recordings...


----------



## actorlife (Jul 5, 2019)

vstolpner said:


> Will let you guys know!
> 
> Btw, have you tried the Astrotec Motivation / S80? That one has very sparkly highs, bordering on sibilance for some recordings...



Nah for some reason not interested and sibilant and also dark(yep not talking about the s80) earphones is a no-no with me. When do you get the Mifo, whoops meant the Tiso?
EDIT.
These look the same, but with a lid. Of course amazon is mixing the reviews with other products:
https://www.amazon.com/TNSO-Bluetoo...tnso+wireless&qid=1562354162&s=gateway&sr=8-5


----------



## Leland

I've searched the thread and found nothing, so apologies if a repeat, but is there a model that has a mute button or ability to set a mute button AND doesn't sound like crap for calls? 

I end up walking and talking a lot of conference calls, and it would be real handy to have an actual mute button vs. always needing to take out the phone, etc. Especially in the rain or cold. From what I can tell none have this feature?


----------



## Caipirina

Anyone know anything about THESE? They are today's flash deal on AliX and it appears so far only ppl in Russia have something to say about them (all positive it seems, though pointing out things like 'strong magnets' is , well, not really the kind of review I am looking for) ... I am asking since they offer fast shipping from Spain ...  few funky things, there is one product image that seems to convey some IPX idea (water drops and rain) but I can't find anything in the specs. (They list Apt-X there, though .. kinda not believing that, as they are also mentioning the battery case capacity as 320mAh in one place and 500mAh in another ...) 






Bonus question ... anyone has any idea what THIS function is supposed to be / what it might be good for?


----------



## vstolpner

Caipirina said:


> Bonus question ... anyone has any idea what THIS function is supposed to be / what it might be good for?



I think that's meant to be track skipping.



Leland said:


> I've searched the thread and found nothing, so apologies if a repeat, but is there a model that has a mute button or ability to set a mute button AND doesn't sound like crap for calls?
> 
> I end up walking and talking a lot of conference calls, and it would be real handy to have an actual mute button vs. always needing to take out the phone, etc. Especially in the rain or cold. From what I can tell none have this feature?



That's something I've been trying to find for a long time too, but no luck. Even my wired headsets can't really do that (I think you can hold the talk button on some to mute, but I'm always worried I'll hang up by accident).


----------



## d3myz

BigZ12 said:


> Did you lose the rubber cover?
> If not, I have used super glue on both my covers. Cleaned it well before applying.
> Now they are really well attached, and working fine.
> Used a drop og glue on the tip of a plastic tooth pick and gently applied the adhesive around the button.


Well, that's good to know. Yes, I still have the rubber covers, i'll try that, thank you!


----------



## d3myz

actorlife said:


> Does the Tiso I4 have vol control? I may bite if yes. 6hr battery is within my battery range and 20 bucks.


No Volume control on the Tiso i4. I think the battery life is 4 hrs, but they are cheap, small and have a great overall sound. the bass is mostly low/mid bass, no sub bass like the T1 or 359, but i really like them for books and meditation music etc.


----------



## hifi80sman (Jul 5, 2019)

nc8000 said:


> Based on Sony’s own chip and the 6 hours is with anc on, they should hit 8 hours with anc off


The only thing that is a little "What", is there is no volume control on the earbuds.  While I do not use it that often, I do use it, especially at the gym (phone may not be on my person).

I'll still grab them, however, along with the new Bose 700 ANC TWE.


----------



## actorlife (Jul 5, 2019)

Caipirina said:


> Anyone know anything about THESE? They are today's flash deal on AliX and it appears so far only ppl in Russia have something to say about them (all positive it seems, though pointing out things like 'strong magnets' is , well, not really the kind of review I am looking for) ... I am asking since they offer fast shipping from Spain ...  few funky things, there is one product image that seems to convey some IPX idea (water drops and rain) but I can't find anything in the specs. (They list Apt-X there, though .. kinda not believing that, as they are also mentioning the battery case capacity as 320mAh in one place and 500mAh in another ...)
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Here ya go:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33025259900.html?spm=2114.search0604.3.3.675b106coqQCWn&ws_ab_test=searchweb0_0,searchweb201602_6_10065_10130_10068_10547_319_10546_317_10548_10545_10696_10084_453_454_10083_10618_10307_537_536_10059_10884_10887_321_322_10103,searchweb201603_52,ppcSwitch_0&algo_expid=6cbce24d-b65a-4771-a14a-4c066ba841df-0&algo_pvid=6cbce24d-b65a-4771-a14a-4c066ba841df&transAbTest=ae803_5

Style: Ear Hook
Communication: Wireless
Connectors: USB
Wireless Type: Bluetooth
Vocalism Principle: Dynamic
Control Button: No
Volume Control: No
Active Noise-Cancellation: No
Function: Monitor Headphone,for Video Game,Common Headphone,For Mobile Phone,For iPod,HiFi Headphone,Sport
Plug Type: Line Type
Sensitivity: 122±3dB
Frequency Response Range: 20-40000Hz
Line Length: None
Resistance: 32Ω
Waterproof: No
Model Number: V10
Support Memory Card: No
Support APP: No
Is wireless: Yes
With Microphone: Yes
Codecs: Apt-X
Brand Name: Femperna

These have the same function and cheaper with aptx and same brand:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/330...4.0&pvid=845b853c-0d0b-4175-b3fd-3e6fabe8ff87


----------



## hifi80sman

actorlife said:


> Here ya go:
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33025259900.html?spm=2114.search0604.3.3.675b106coqQCWn&ws_ab_test=searchweb0_0,searchweb201602_6_10065_10130_10068_10547_319_10546_317_10548_10545_10696_10084_453_454_10083_10618_10307_537_536_10059_10884_10887_321_322_10103,searchweb201603_52,ppcSwitch_0&algo_expid=6cbce24d-b65a-4771-a14a-4c066ba841df-0&algo_pvid=6cbce24d-b65a-4771-a14a-4c066ba841df&transAbTest=ae803_5
> 
> Style: Ear Hook
> ...


Not sure what this means...does it spawn some type of alien you can't get rid of?!  Scary!


----------



## vstolpner

actorlife said:


> These have the same function and cheaper with aptx and same brand:
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/330...4.0&pvid=845b853c-0d0b-4175-b3fd-3e6fabe8ff87



These look like Bluedio T-Elf, and even have the same model number. If they're using the same internals (and not just case and shells) then expect the quality to be very poor.


----------



## Slater

d3myz said:


> If i was smart, i'd probably grab the TRN BT20s and hook my Ibasso It01's up to them.



This is an awesome pairing BTW (I have the BT20 not BT20S, but it should be the same).


----------



## BigZ12

d3myz said:


> Well, that's good to know. Yes, I still have the rubber covers, i'll try that, thank you!


Be careful not to get glue on the button underneath the rubber lid/cover.
Just on the "base" around it. 
I didn't put glue on the rubber. Just on the bud itself, and placed the rubber onto it.


----------



## mico1964

New firmware (1.26) available for MTW.


----------



## actorlife (Jul 5, 2019)

Cheap Anbes for 10 bucks with vol. control. Who is gonna give them a go?




https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33032366013.html?spm=2114.search0604.3.101.560b28599s8tEq&ws_ab_test=searchweb0_0,searchweb201602_6_10065_10130_10068_10547_319_10546_317_10548_10545_10696_10084_453_454_10083_10618_10307_537_536_10059_10884_10887_321_322_10103,searchweb201603_52,ppcSwitch_0&algo_expid=e6c91591-f3b4-4ff0-a405-7e153f0b6f00-13&algo_pvid=e6c91591-f3b4-4ff0-a405-7e153f0b6f00&transAbTest=ae803_5
Remind me on KZ wired. Perhaps with the TRN BT20s:




https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32887259004.html?spm=2114.search0604.3.285.560b28599s8tEq&ws_ab_test=searchweb0_0,searchweb201602_6_10065_10130_10068_10547_319_10546_317_10548_10545_10696_10084_453_454_10083_10618_10307_537_536_10059_10884_10887_321_322_10103,searchweb201603_52,ppcSwitch_0&algo_expid=e6c91591-f3b4-4ff0-a405-7e153f0b6f00-37&algo_pvid=e6c91591-f3b4-4ff0-a405-7e153f0b6f00&transAbTest=ae803_5
Anbes Transmitter/reciever:




https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32961668058.html?spm=2114.search0604.3.212.2e276812SsHy4e&ws_ab_test=searchweb0_0,searchweb201602_6_10065_10130_10068_10547_319_10546_317_10548_10545_10696_10084_453_454_10083_10618_10307_537_536_10059_10884_10887_321_322_10103,searchweb201603_52,ppcSwitch_0&algo_expid=a6ba05f4-eab1-4560-9cbb-254ceb43304e-31&algo_pvid=a6ba05f4-eab1-4560-9cbb-254ceb43304e&transAbTest=ae803_5


----------



## Slater

actorlife said:


> Remind me on KZ wired:
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32887259004.html



Haha, that’s a W1 Pro with the 1 Photoshopped to a 6 in the images.


----------



## actorlife

Slater said:


> Haha, that’s a W1 Pro with the 1 Photoshopped to a 6 in the images.


Yep I figured I seen them before. I'm sure the SQ is good though.


----------



## Slater

actorlife said:


> Yep I figured I seen them before. I'm sure the SQ is good though.



Yes, for the price the W1 Pro is good. I used to use it for the gym. It also sits very flat in the ear and can be used for sleeping.


----------



## vstolpner

actorlife said:


> Cheap Anbes for 10 bucks with vol. control. Who is gonna give them a go?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I actually want to find a cheap and decent quality pair of TWS earphones that I can try and transplant BA drivers from a spare set of earphones I no longer use... but first need to know that I can open these and that they're not just glued shut. Might have to go with QCY TC1's in the end.


----------



## d3myz

Slater said:


> This is an awesome pairing BTW (I have the BT20 not BT20S, but it should be the same).


Oh Awesome, that's good to hear, I absolutely love my IT01's.


----------



## hifi80sman (Jul 5, 2019)

mico1964 said:


> New firmware (1.26) available for MTW.


Do you know what they specifically updated?  I was able to update, but I can't find what was changed.

EDIT:
Found it.


----------



## Slater

d3myz said:


> Oh Awesome, that's good to hear, I absolutely love my IT01's.



I love my IT0 as well. And at first I was hesitant to try them with the BT20, thinking it would somehow be sacrilegious. But I was wrong; they not only fit perfectly without having to reshape the BT20 ear guides (for my ear anatomy), the IT01 sounded just as good with the BT20 as wired. I was astonished.

The BT20 also pair well with the KB Ear F1, which I've been using them with recently because I'm working on a review for the F1. But as soon as I'm done with the review, the IT01 will go back on.


----------



## Slater

hifi80sman said:


> Do you know what they specifically updated?  I was able to update, but I can't find what was changed.
> 
> EDIT:
> Found it.



If the MTW fixes so many bugs in all of their various updates, imagine how many bugs are in all these other cheapy ChiFi TW that never get fixed because there's no firmware updates.

I guess that's one of the tradeoffs with $20-$40 ChiFi TW earphones - you're stuck with whatever you get (which sometimes is good, and sometimes is bad).


----------



## Bartig

d3myz said:


> I like the 359's, not love. They are the least comfortable TWS I own and after owning two pair where the rubber button has come off, i'm not about to waste my money on a third. I've never been one to hear the wide soundstage everyone talks about. my T1 Pros have a MUCH wider sound stage and even my Tiso I4's soundstage is as wide if not wider. I do love the battery life, volume control, bass and loudness, but I hardly listen to music, so it's not really that important to me. we'll see how the D42's are. If i was smart, i'd probably grab the TRN BT20s and hook my Ibasso It01's up to them.


Surprising! Curious how the Anbes 359 sounds. 



actorlife said:


> Does the Tiso I4 have vol control? I may bite if yes. 6hr battery is within my battery range and 20 bucks.


It doesn't have volume control, but it's a good choice overall. 



actorlife said:


> Here ya go:
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33025259900.html?spm=2114.search0604.3.3.675b106coqQCWn&ws_ab_test=searchweb0_0,searchweb201602_6_10065_10130_10068_10547_319_10546_317_10548_10545_10696_10084_453_454_10083_10618_10307_537_536_10059_10884_10887_321_322_10103,searchweb201603_52,ppcSwitch_0&algo_expid=6cbce24d-b65a-4771-a14a-4c066ba841df-0&algo_pvid=6cbce24d-b65a-4771-a14a-4c066ba841df&transAbTest=ae803_5
> 
> Style: Ear Hook
> ...





actorlife said:


> Cheap Anbes for 10 bucks with vol. control. Who is gonna give them a go?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Ordered! Will let you know!



Slater said:


> If the MTW fixes so many bugs in all of their various updates, imagine how many bugs are in all these other cheapy ChiFi TW that never get fixed because there's no firmware updates.
> 
> I guess that's one of the tradeoffs with $20-$40 ChiFi TW earphones - you're stuck with whatever you get (which sometimes is good, and sometimes is bad).


Most of the time so far, items don't need fixing...


----------



## jant71 (Jul 5, 2019)

Not far off at all.





AT going to beat them by one day...




AT is 15 hours per charge. BT5.0 with aptx as well(Qualcomm® aptXTM audio, AAC, SBC)




Newly designed completely wireless earpiece
In pursuit of excellent isolation and stable fit, we designed a dedicated earpiece for complete wireless. A thin, flexible silicone earpiece provides an exceptional fit. Moreover, the sound omission is improved by radiation shape design, and high-quality sound is delivered to the ear surely.


----------



## hifi80sman

Slater said:


> If the MTW fixes so many bugs in all of their various updates, imagine how many bugs are in all these other cheapy ChiFi TW that never get fixed because there's no firmware updates.
> 
> I guess that's one of the tradeoffs with $20-$40 ChiFi TW earphones - you're stuck with whatever you get (which sometimes is good, and sometimes is bad).


Not sure if it's placebo effect, but the MTW sound a little cleaner and overall "better" with no EQ.


----------



## LajostheHun

regarding the new Sony, I find the 24bit processing an oxymoron if no  codec like LDAC or Aptx HD is available which can handle that, not to mention heavy compression of all the other codecs that might be present. Yes it can still "sound good", but why bother mentioning 24 bit, if they create a bottleneck somewhere else. Still I'm interested especially after they drop the price....


----------



## actorlife

Bartig said:


> Surprising! Curious how the Anbes 359 sounds.
> 
> 
> It doesn't have volume control, but it's a good choice overall.
> ...


Heck yeah. looking forward to your observations on the $10 Anbes. It would be funny if you prefer them to the 359.


----------



## solaris9841 (Jul 5, 2019)

So I've been using the NUARL NT01AX IEMs for about a week now. Battery life isn't an issue. Quality still sounds good.

But these have some serious connectivity issues for me. I don't know it is just the environment I'm in (think train station and such in Tokyo, very crowded) but they drop a LOT between each ear. It's not the Bluetooth connection to the phone either since the master ear piece never drops. It's the connection between each ear piece that is having serious problems. It's struggling a little bit while I'm just sitting in bed listening to music.

Kinda disappointed and will try contacting their customer support before trying to return them to Yodobashi Camera (if they'll even let me).


----------



## actorlife (Jul 5, 2019)

jant71 said:


> AT going to beat them by one day...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Now those ATH I'd be interested in beside the MEE. Too bad the price will be high as F. Maybe $250 I'm guessing.


----------



## jant71 (Jul 5, 2019)

Depends on the Yen till it comes stateside but $168 right now at E-earphone but not many sellers yet. Seems aimed to settle at the $150 street price for Japan.

Also comes in the third Khaki color and is USB C...
https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=ja&u=http://www.audio-technica.co.jp/smt/atj/show_model.php?modelId=3102&prev=search


----------



## RobinFood

solaris9841 said:


> So I've been using the NUARL NT01AX IEMs for about a week now. Battery life isn't an issue. Quality still sounds good.
> 
> But these have some serious connectivity issues for me. I don't know it is just the environment I'm in (think train station and such in Tokyo, very crowded) but they drop a LOT between each ear. It's not the Bluetooth connection to the phone either since the master ear piece never drops. It's the connection between each ear piece that is having serious problems. It's struggling a little bit while I'm just sitting in bed listening to music.
> 
> Kinda disappointed and will try contacting their customer support before trying to return them to Yodobashi Camera (if they'll even let me).



I had the same issues in downtown Osaka. Ultimately I started wearing my source in my shirt pocket instead of my pants pockets and haven't had an issue since. 

Bluetooth range in hot spots is very short, probably just 60cm, but I have similar issues with the radsone es100 when going to crowded places. 

My source these days is usually a Shanling m0 with a clipcase, so my source is usually clipped to my collar when commuting. I have zero issues with cut outs since using it like this.


----------



## vstolpner

d3myz said:


> I like the 359's, not love. They are the least comfortable TWS I own and after owning two pair where the rubber button has come off, i'm not about to waste my money on a third. I've never been one to hear the wide soundstage everyone talks about. my T1 Pros have a MUCH wider sound stage and even my Tiso I4's soundstage is as wide if not wider. I do love the battery life, volume control, bass and loudness, but I hardly listen to music, so it's not really that important to me. we'll see how the D42's are. If i was smart, i'd probably grab the TRN BT20s and hook my Ibasso It01's up to them.



That's interesting because I find the 359's really comfortable, second only to the mifo O5's, but those don't have as deep of a fitment


----------



## vstolpner

Bartig said:


> Ordered! Will let you know!



Please do! And see whether those can be opened to replace the drivers....


----------



## vstolpner

jant71 said:


> Newly designed completely wireless earpiece
> In pursuit of excellent isolation and stable fit, we designed a dedicated earpiece for complete wireless. A thin, flexible silicone earpiece provides an exceptional fit. Moreover, the sound omission is improved by radiation shape design, and high-quality sound is delivered to the ear surely.



This seems really interesting, because I find it's rare that IEM's have really good quality eartips included (mifo O5 excluded - those are amazing)


----------



## solaris9841

RobinFood said:


> I had the same issues in downtown Osaka. Ultimately I started wearing my source in my shirt pocket instead of my pants pockets and haven't had an issue since.
> 
> Bluetooth range in hot spots is very short, probably just 60cm, but I have similar issues with the radsone es100 when going to crowded places.
> 
> My source these days is usually a Shanling m0 with a clipcase, so my source is usually clipped to my collar when commuting. I have zero issues with cut outs since using it like this.


I only every actually had connectivity issues to the source device when in Akihabara. The issue seems to be with the TrueWireless Stereo system thing. The master earbud never drops connection with the device but it frequently drops connection with the slave earbud on the other side of my head. I'm not sure if that is still dependent on the source device in some way though, since my understanding is that the earbuds have a connection to themselves in addition to the source device.

I think TrueWireless Stereo Plus may alleviate things a little but I don't think my cellphone supports it despite being a Snapdragon 845.


----------



## cityle

jant71 said:


> Depends on the Yen till it comes stateside but $168 right now at E-earphone but not many sellers yet. Seems aimed to settle at the $150 street price for Japan.
> 
> Also comes in the third Khaki color and is USB C...
> https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=ja&u=http://www.audio-technica.co.jp/smt/atj/show_model.php?modelId=3102&prev=search


It just looks as it is the ath-ckr7tw with more bass and usb-c. The case is so similar looking.


----------



## TYATYA

Slater said:


> I love my IT0 as well. And at first I was hesitant to try them with the BT20, thinking it would somehow be sacrilegious. But I was wrong; they not only fit perfectly without having to reshape the BT20 ear guides (for my ear anatomy), the IT01 sounded just as good with the BT20 as wired. I was astonished.
> 
> The BT20 also pair well with the KB Ear F1, which I've been using them with recently because I'm working on a review for the F1. But as soon as I'm done with the review, the IT01 will go back on.



My it01s with cb12s (same brand it01s) on it, which improves sq quite much compare to stock, bass tighter, clean mid and more transparent...
But B.O E8 2.0 now is my fav for out going. 
Really impressive wide spacious and rich sound. Treble on E8 extend higher then it01s, cripsy but not any hash.
Bass of it01s still be tighter and more detail abit than E8, thanks to the wire, while E8 runs on aac blutooth (if aptx supported, may be help E8 )
But mid on it01s sound somehow alittle unreal on woman singer voice. ( the voice with addition of "ae" or something on each word. EN is not my language so cant find word).
Maybe V shape fr made it to happen.
On E8 is a more realistic voice. But a bit laidback while I want it to more forward.


----------



## vstolpner (Jul 6, 2019)

So thought I'd bring in some more interesting Chi-Fi finds to the thread....

What do you guys think of these:
Tiny bullet style earphones, small case
BT 5.0, QCC3020 and around $20
Oddly, no mention of aptx :-/





https://s.click.aliexpress.com/e/WO4n0aG

Small $35 earphones with dual dynamic drivers (different size by the looks of it but no details in description). Color choices, touch controls, AAC. I think someone mentioned these before, so curious if anyone picked them up?




https://s.click.aliexpress.com/e/bBM8oJRK

Earbuds built in to the watch that actually seems to have some really good health measuring devices...




https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32990607747.html?


----------



## RobinFood

vstolpner said:


> So thought I'd bring in some more interesting Chi-Fi finds to the thread....
> 
> What do you guys think of these:
> Tiny bullet style earphones, small case
> ...



I don't know why, but the geek in me LOVES that watch design. Go-go Gadget Earbuds!
I also like that they seem to be earbuds and not IEMs. I wonder if they actually sound good or are just for novelty though....


----------



## nc8000

hifi80sman said:


> The only thing that is a little "What", is there is no volume control on the earbuds.  While I do not use it that often, I do use it, especially at the gym (phone may not be on my person).
> 
> I'll still grab them, however, along with the new Bose 700 ANC TWE.



I’m more worried that they don’t seem to have any ipx rating so can’t take any level of moisture so no good in the gym


----------



## wizll

vstolpner said:


> That's interesting because I find the 359's really comfortable, second only to the mifo O5's, but those don't have as deep of a fitment


 
same, anbes 359 and tranya t3 fit very comfortably for me out of the box.


----------



## Slater

vstolpner said:


> Small $35 earphones with dual dynamic drivers (different size by the looks of it but no details in description). Color choices, touch controls, AAC. I think someone mentioned these before, so curious if anyone picked them up?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Ok the surface, this looks good.

But I wonder if the ‘drivers’ are really mounted on the circuit board and pointing UP, or if the ‘drivers’ on the circuit board is just a fake metal piece they glued on?


----------



## billbishere (Jul 6, 2019)

I just got the 1more tws stylish.  They have the Qualcomm new chip that makes it have a rock solid connection.  They spent 2 years perfecting them.  You can use each earbud separate which is pretty rare.  The fit is amazing which is a big thing for me, I have tried a couple and they don't stay.  But these don't move, you forget they there.  No lag on videos.

The sound is pretty decent.  Its a little dark and somewhat bassey but not muddy or anything.  The mic is decent with some noise cancel tech and then they have assistant from the buds, they have a nice clicky button.



For 100 bucks I am happy.


----------



## Mouseman

Slater said:


> Ok the surface, this looks good.
> 
> But I wonder if the ‘drivers’ are really mounted on the circuit board and pointing UP, or if the ‘drivers’ on the circuit board is just a fake metal piece they glued on?


You have to love chi-fi product art. I wonder if they get the same people to work on it that do the excellent copy writing?


----------



## Bartig

Look at that, it's number 26 and 27 in the mail today!


----------



## actorlife

Bartig said:


> Look at that, it's number 26 and 27 in the mail today!


Those look interesting looking forward to your thoughts and the prices.


----------



## vstolpner

Bartig said:


> Look at that, it's number 26 and 27 in the mail today!



I was curious about those actually! Looking forward to your review!


----------



## actorlife

I wanted to add that try to keep the TWS half volume of the headsets themselves, so you can conserve the battery and just use your phone volume if you want them a bit higher. I get about 5hrs(Anbes) with volume at half and about 4hrs full volume. Hope this helps.


----------



## vstolpner

actorlife said:


> I wanted to add that try to keep the TWS half volume of the headsets themselves, so you can conserve the battery and just use your phone volume if you want them a bit higher. I get about 5hrs(Anbes) with volume at half and about 4hrs full volume. Hope this helps.



I wonder what's better for audio quality, or if there's any perceptible difference. Thinking being that either sending an over or under amplified signal might result in details being cut off at either end of the spectrum.

Anyone here had experience with this question?


----------



## actorlife (Jul 6, 2019)

jant71 said:


> Depends on the Yen till it comes stateside but $168 right now at E-earphone but not many sellers yet. Seems aimed to settle at the $150 street price for Japan.
> 
> Also comes in the third Khaki color and is USB C...
> https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=ja&u=http://www.audio-technica.co.jp/smt/atj/show_model.php?modelId=3102&prev=search


With a 12hr battery these are very interesting. Hopefully the SQ/Connection is great.
-
I'm not gonna lie I've been using the Syllable S101 alot lately just because of the 8hr battery at half volume of course. I use them mostly for my subs on YouTube and audiobooks. Has the SQ improved? Maybe slightly, but no miracle. Still no sparkly highs. I looked at the tube to see if they added some material in the inner tube and nope. Mopping  I guess it's tuned that way.
Edit.
I mean if you see these for 20 bucks under another name with 8hrs pick em up if you listen to alot of audiobooks or youtube.
Edit.
Never heard a HiFi man headphones, but saw these:



Review: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/hifiman-tws600-first-impression.910058/
Edit
Looking forward to reviews on these:


 
LYPERTEK TEVI ($80) 
*FEATURES: *


Clean, Balanced, Good Bass and Wide Sound Stage Sound Signature. 
Qualcomm Bluetooth 5.0 for stable connection.
Super Light and Comfortable Wearing Experience.
IPX7 waterproof.

*SPECIFICATION:*
Driver: High Performance 6mm Graphene Driver
Frequency Response: 20 - 20kHz
Microphone: cVc 8.0 Noise Cancelling, Echo Cancellation, Noise Suppression

Bluetooth Specification: Bluetooth 5.0

Bluetooth Codec: Qualcomm aptX, AAC, SBC

Play Time (Max): Max 10 hours* And Max. 70 hours with Charging Case (*Volume 50% based on SBC)

Waterproof Level: IPX7

Features: Music & Volume Control, Phone Call & Voice Assistant Calls.

*PACKAGE INCLUDES:*
TEVI Truly Wireless Earphone - 1pair
Charging Case - 1pc 
S, M, L Silicone Tips - 1pair per size 
Flexfit Foam Tips (M size) -1pair

USB Type-C cable -1pc
Quick Start Manual - 1pc



*FLEXFIT FOAM TIPS* - S, M, L - 1pair per size



*DETAIL DESCRIPTION:*
LYPERTEK TEVI is a TWS earphone with Trendy Sound, Stable connection and long battery life.  TEVI comes with an exclusived design 6mm Graphene Drivers. Tuned by Professional Acoustics Engineer, TEVI provides a trendy sound you will never hear before, and you will like it.

There is a easy to use main buttons to control the call, volume, and other functions.  

With Comfortable design, LYPERTEK TEVI provides the comfortable wearing & listening experiences. 

Four sizes of silicone eartips are for your choices to listen the music with completely isolated from the noisy environment. Comes with a 800mAh battery charging case, which is with USB Type-C port, can charge the TEVI 6 times.  Allowing for a total play time of 70 hours.


----------



## Aevum

Heres a ELI5 moment for me...

If companies like KZ are making very cheap (not very good but very cheap) multi armature headphones for peanuts, (you can have a 5 armature per side from CCA for like 35 euros, and they sound slightly better then most thing worth 35 euros),
And Armatures take up less power to drive and need less airflow to operate correctly, why hasnt anyone made a armature based true wireless headset ?

I suspect that something with decent AAC, APTX and 3 armatures per side (and i KZ quality armatures, not Sonion or Knowles) that would have decent sound quality would be achievable.


----------



## bronco1015

just preordered the sonys, will be the first non wired Sony product i've purchased. heres hoping thee ANC and SQ don't suck. i'm actually excited about them.


----------



## clerkpalmer

bronco1015 said:


> just preordered the sonys, will be the first non wired Sony product i've purchased. heres hoping thee ANC and SQ don't suck. i'm actually excited about them.



This is the first exciting product in a while. The Bose are exciting but too far off. I’m completely bummed they did not offer any sweatproofing however. I may have to pass on them because of it. Presumably they are readying a sports version but come on. Give me icx4 at least.


----------



## nc8000

T3 magazine have just tested 6 true wireless and judge the new Powerbeats Pro as probably the best true wireless on the market on sq and features


----------



## clerkpalmer

nc8000 said:


> T3 magazine have just tested 6 true wireless and judge the new Powerbeats Pro as probably the best true wireless on the market on sq and features


My powerbeats pro are excellent.  They are probably the best all arounders at the moment but overpriced by 50.


----------



## vstolpner

Aevum said:


> Heres a ELI5 moment for me...
> 
> If companies like KZ are making very cheap (not very good but very cheap) multi armature headphones for peanuts, (you can have a 5 armature per side from CCA for like 35 euros, and they sound slightly better then most thing worth 35 euros),
> And Armatures take up less power to drive and need less airflow to operate correctly, why hasnt anyone made a armature based true wireless headset ?
> ...



Because most people like base and balanced armatures, especially cheap ones, aren't very good at delivering thumping base.
But I get where you're coming from, I can't wait for hybrid Chi-Fi TWE's. Until then, it's TRN BT20 to the rescue.

As for BA based Chi-Fi TWE's... Mifo O5 Pro, Astrotec S60 (Knowles BA's), and I'm sure a few others I can't remember off the top of my head. The mifo's are actually fantastic


----------



## Aevum

Im actually committed  major sacrilege and ordered a pair BT20S for my Ue900S. 

If it dosnt work out, i´ll see if i can pair it with some tin T2 or something


----------



## bronco1015

clerkpalmer said:


> This is the first exciting product in a while. The Bose are exciting but too far off. I’m completely bummed they did not offer any sweatproofing however. I may have to pass on them because of it. Presumably they are readying a sports version but come on. Give me icx4 at least.


 i wonder if this year they want to get mor traction in the market. Then next TWS might be TOTL APT X, APTX HD, LDAC, AAC, APTX Ll, sbc, ANC, IP7 etc. i'm rambling a bit, but i just hope the specs are implemented to their full potential


----------



## Aevum

the reason they claim that the new sony dont have LDAP and APTX HD is that the small size of the fully wireless headphones is way too small to have a antenna that could handle the required bandwidth.

the question is if its bull or until something more efficient comes along it will always be a factor with true wireless.


----------



## mikp

Aevum said:


> the reason they claim that the new sony dont have LDAP and APTX HD is that the small size of the fully wireless headphones is way too small to have a antenna that could handle the required bandwidth.
> 
> the question is if its bull**** or until something more efficient comes along it will always be a factor with true wireless.



where did you read that?

There must be some reason why the qcc 51xx series with apt-x hd has not arrived. Even the only brand on the market with qcc51xx has only sbc, and a promised update to only apt-x.


----------



## PopZeus (Jul 6, 2019)

Any word on what kind of driver is in the 1000XM3? Curious to know if Sony went with a DD or BA/hybrid approach.

Of course, I’d love more LDAP adoption, but for “true wireless” IEMs, the mainstream market is probably perfectly happy with AAC and Apt-X.


----------



## joshnor713

PopZeus said:


> Any word on what kind of driver is in the 1000XM3? Curious to know if Sony went with a DD or BA/hybrid approach.
> 
> Of course, I’d love more LDAP adoption, but for “true wireless” IEMs, the mainstream market is probably perfectly happy with AAC and Apt-X.



6mm DD. Same spec as the first wf-1000x, at least on paper


----------



## vstolpner

Aevum said:


> Im actually committed  major sacrilege and ordered a pair BT20S for my Ue900S.
> 
> If it dosnt work out, i´ll see if i can pair it with some tin T2 or something



Don't the UE 900S come with 2-pin connectors and Tin T2's with MMCX?
which BT20S connector did you get?


----------



## SilverEars (Jul 6, 2019)

One feature that the XM3 is missing that I'm disappointed with is that it's not IPX waterproof rated.  If I were to get one, I'd use it outdoors and that the gym, so waterproof-ability is quite important.

I'm quite curious how well the ANC fares in a loud noise airplane environments.  I've never heard of a top performing iem ANC before.


----------



## PopZeus

joshnor713 said:


> 6mm DD. Same spec as the first wf-1000x, at least on paper



Good to know. Thanks!


----------



## JimmyR

I’m finally pulled the trigger on the Tranya T3, in the hope that they sound similar to the Sabbat E12, but come packed with a better mic for calls.
They should hit my inbox by mid week. 
If the mic is not better, they will be sent back home


----------



## vstolpner

Looks like future Bluetooth version (BT6.0?) Will be designed for TWS, low latency, more efficient and higher quality codecs. Releasing 2019H2.
2020 will be interesting for TWE's!

https://www.androidauthority.com/bluetooth-audio-2019-1001214/


----------



## vstolpner

So I got inspired by all the reviews on here and decided to put together mine with a little more polish (and I do mean only a little polish).

Please let me know what you guys think - anything you'd like to see that's not in there already?

Anbes 359
mifo O5 Professional
Astrotec Motivation (S80)


----------



## Soreniglio (Jul 7, 2019)

vstolpner said:


> So I got inspired by all the reviews on here and decided to put together mine with a little more polish (and I do mean only a little polish).
> 
> Please let me know what you guys think - anything you'd like to see that's not in there already?
> 
> ...


Your reviews made me happy, because these were basically the TWS I was doubtful about, and it looks like I made a good choice by buying Anbes 359, cheap and neat!

I really really hope my Anbes are not gonna disappoint me :c


----------



## billbishere

I would be concerned with long term connection on those chifi tws. Does anyone know the chipset they are using for them ?  I considered the mifo but between not having wings or anything for extra fit and the unknown connection chip in just spent the extra for a known trusted company.

However I would be in to try a 3 driver setup tws for the right price.  I plugged in my KZ ZSR to the tempotec DAC and I am still blown away.  Those KZ buds are crazy good for the price.


----------



## Bartig

JimmyR said:


> I’m finally pulled the trigger on the Tranya T3, in the hope that they sound similar to the Sabbat E12, but come packed with a better mic for calls.
> They should hit my inbox by mid week.
> If the mic is not better, they will be sent back home


I think you can prepare to send them back. The Tranya T3 is darker sounding with much more emphasis on the bass. Plus: from all tws I've tested, the E12 and X12 Pro actually offer the best call quality.


----------



## vstolpner

Soreniglio said:


> Your reviews made me happy, because these were basically the TWS I was doubtful about, and it looks like I made a good choice by buying Anbes 359, cheap and neat!
> 
> I really really hope my Anbes are not gonna disappoint me :c



Glad you found it helpful 
I've got Tanya T3 and Tiso i4 coming too, so I'll be doing my review of those once they get here


----------



## actorlife

vstolpner said:


> So I got inspired by all the reviews on here and decided to put together mine with a little more polish (and I do mean only a little polish).
> 
> Please let me know what you guys think - anything you'd like to see that's not in there already?
> 
> ...


Thanks very informative. I tend to stay away from sibilant phones. I really wanna hear those Mifo 05. Reads like something I'd really like. I'm just not into dark phones, so those T3 would not do. I think the technology will get better. Hopefully 6.0 will be out in a year or two. I'm kinda on a budget so not sure when I'll get my next TWS. Thank goodness for cheaper options out there.


----------



## HiFlight

actorlife said:


> Thanks very informative. I tend to stay away from sibilant phones. I really wanna hear those Mifo 05. Reads like something I'd really like. I'm just not into dark phones, so those T3 would not do. I think the technology will get better. Hopefully 6.0 will be out in a year or two. I'm kinda on a budget so not sure when I'll get my next TWS. Thank goodness for cheaper options out there.


I did try the Mifo 05 and found the SQ to be pleasant, nothing really stood out one way or the other.  HOWEVER, pairing was a nightmare.  They were supposed to pair with each other when removed from the charger, but mine never did.  I did manage to pair them once manually, but thereafter the left bud remained in pairing mode and never again connected regardless of what I did.  Sound only came through the right side.  After struggling with them for the better part of a day and trying everything in the instructions as well as suggestions from reviews FAQ's, I gave up, reboxed them and sent them back to Amazon.


----------



## actorlife

HiFlight said:


> I did try the Mifo 05 and found the SQ to be pleasant, nothing really stood out one way or the other.  HOWEVER, pairing was a nightmare.  They were supposed to pair with each other when removed from the charger, but mine never did.  I did manage to pair them once manually, but thereafter the left bud remained in pairing mode and never again connected regardless of what I did.  Sound only came through the right side.  After struggling with them for the better part of a day and trying everything in the instructions as well as suggestions from reviews FAQ's, I gave up, reboxed them and sent them back to Amazon.


Thanks for the overview I was thinking of getting the clone version of the Mifo 05. The TFZ X1 I'm liking the blue version. We'll see like I said on a tight budget.


----------



## HiFlight

While I have tried several TWS buds, the only ones that continue to work flawlessly are the Creative Outlier Air Sport.  An absolute bargain for $79.95!


----------



## nc8000

HiFlight said:


> While I have tried several TWS buds, the only ones that continue to work flawlessly are the Creative Outlier Air Sport.  An absolute bargain for $79.95!



I’ve had zero problems with the Havit G1 and Earin M2 for 9 and 6 months


----------



## vstolpner

nc8000 said:


> I’ve had zero problems with the Havit G1 and Earin M2 for 9 and 6 months



Same for the Anbes 359
These have had the best connectivity (funny enough as they're also the cheapest)


----------



## Caipirina

Bartig said:


> Look at that, it's number 26 and 27 in the mail today!



Are you ordering from amazon.de? They had the i93 for 23€ on flash deal and mine shall arrive tomorrow


----------



## Bartig

HiFlight said:


> While I have tried several TWS buds, the only ones that continue to work flawlessly are the Creative Outlier Air Sport.  An absolute bargain for $79.95!


I've had two sets not being able to pair and connect normally... And around 25 that function without any problems. :O



Caipirina said:


> Are you ordering from amazon.de? They had the i93 for 23€ on flash deal and mine shall arrive tomorrow


Haha no, I paid two dollar more from Ali and waited for two weeks.


----------



## Caipirina

Bartig said:


> Haha no, I paid two dollar more from Ali and waited for two weeks.



Two weeks from Ali is speedy! I am tempted to jump on those Anbes for 10$ .. but estimated arrival is 8/10 and I am leaving my EU shipping location on 8/2 until next summer .. so .. close call


----------



## vstolpner

Caipirina said:


> Two weeks from Ali is speedy! I am tempted to jump on those Anbes for 10$ .. but estimated arrival is 8/10 and I am leaving my EU shipping location on 8/2 until next summer .. so .. close call



Do it and choose epacket shipping.... It's about 1-2 to Canada when shipped that way


----------



## Caipirina

vstolpner said:


> Do it and choose epacket shipping.... It's about 1-2 to Canada when shipped that way



This is why I just pulled the trigger  Seller's free shipping method is e-ticket by default. 

As if I need yet another pair of TWE ...


----------



## vstolpner (Jul 7, 2019)

Caipirina said:


> This is why I just pulled the trigger  Seller's free shipping method is e-ticket by default.
> 
> As if I need yet another pair of TWE ...



Have you seen these ones? Tempting due to the size and shape of the earphones

Bluetooth 5.0 IPX7 Waterproof 30H Playtime Deep Bass
https://s.click.aliexpress.com/e/b9adAFMU


----------



## Caipirina

vstolpner said:


> Have you seen these ones? Tempting due to the size and shape of the earphones
> 
> Bluetooth 5.0 IPX7 Waterproof 30H Playtime Deep Bass
> https://s.click.aliexpress.com/e/b9adAFMU



I kinda stopped looking for now .. knowing my time constraints and the fact that I have waaaayyy too many TWE now  

These remind me in shape on the Tiso ... in a different case ... nothing that screams 'gotta have' ..


----------



## billbishere

I haven't been able to trick the connection to messing up on my 1more TWS.  Such a rock solid connection and setup.


----------



## vstolpner

Caipirina said:


> I kinda stopped looking for now .. knowing my time constraints and the fact that I have waaaayyy too many TWE now
> 
> These remind me in shape on the Tiso ... in a different case ... nothing that screams 'gotta have' ..



THAT'S what they reminded me of!!
Don't have my i4's yet, so guess that's why I couldn't place my finger on it 

What's your full list of TWE's now? And what are your favorites?


----------



## JimmyR

vstolpner said:


> So I got inspired by all the reviews on here and decided to put together mine with a little more polish (and I do mean only a little polish).
> 
> Please let me know what you guys think - anything you'd like to see that's not in there already?
> 
> ...



Good job, man! Like those reviews and I encourage you to do it again with other earbuds you may own


----------



## vstolpner

JimmyR said:


> Good job, man! Like those reviews and I encourage you to do it again with other earbuds you may own



Thanks! I plan to do Tranya T3 and Tiso i4 soon. Around Prime Days may pick up the new BT20S with Tin T3, or Astrotec S60, or..... May just wait until the new hybrid 1more TWEs based on the QCC51xx chipset

So many options, so little time..... Lol


----------



## BigZ12

Off topic, but just a tip for you guys who use a computer for playing music/movies and have a AptX/LL/HD headset. (also works with PS4 etc)
Works very well with my Sony WH-1000XM3 
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/330...chweb0_0,searchweb201602_9,searchweb201603_53


----------



## Caipirina (Jul 7, 2019)

The rejects:

Last week I ordered some stuff from Amazon, fully aware that I could return them ... and here are the not so great ones that are going back:

Umi. Essentials TWS Bluetooth 5.0 IPX7 W5s
those came with 20% off voucher knocking them from 50 to 40€ ... and the box is really nice and shiny, that's probably the most attractive part.
Technically, they connect well, but SQ is only so so, very mediocre, because: the buds' ergonomics are just weird, as if the designers did not have a human ear nearby when they created those. It seems impossible to create any kind of good / pleasant fit. Not even considering a good seal. They also look and feel terribly cheap ... too bad ..



LATOW ACE ipx5 waterproof and around 16€ ... and I really wanted to like those! The design is something different. But alas, BT 4.1 and there was just no way to keep a stable connection ... I really gave it several tries and nope .. in and out ... what a shame ...



Chyu Bluetooth Headphones Wireless In Ear True Wireless Earbuds
I mentioned them before ... I had some kind of hope that these would perform like the Alterola ie600, but again, BT4.1, a pain to get to pair (the old 'first pair slave - then to phone' all manual spiel) ... I like the form factor, those are tiny! So, I will still be on the look out for the 'real' Alterola ... but with the connection issue of those Chyu .. nope, back to amazon you go ..




On the plus side, I briefly mentioned the 'Ture' and the 'ZagZog' already, which are keepers and I hope to give a bit more details on those later. And I am expecting the Havit i93 tomorrow, let's see how those are.


----------



## vstolpner

Caipirina said:


> The rejects:
> 
> Last week I ordered some stuff from Amazon, fully aware that I could return them ... and here are the not so great ones that are going back:
> 
> ...



Thanks for that! It's arguably more important to know the rejects than the "fine for the money but not spectacular" earphones. Save us all some hassle


----------



## Bartig (Jul 8, 2019)

Caipirina said:


> The rejects:
> 
> Last week I ordered some stuff from Amazon, fully aware that I could return them ... and here are the not so great ones that are going back:
> 
> ...


The number of 'brands' and models out there is sooo incredible.


----------



## Caipirina

Bartig said:


> The number is 'brands' and models out there is sooo incredible.



Feels a bit like Pokémon!


----------



## FunctionalDoc

Anyone know the release of the Klipsch  T5 TRUE WIRELESS EARPHONES ?

These look better then the new Sony s for less money on paper.


----------



## clerkpalmer

FunctionalDoc said:


> Anyone know the release of the Klipsch  T5 TRUE WIRELESS EARPHONES ?
> 
> These look better then the new Sony s for less money on paper.


I preordered them a couple of weeks ago. Klipsch said mid July ship date. Crutchfield had them listed as shipping  July 11 but now it shows 8/1. I’m actually coming to the opposite conclusion as you however.  For 30 more, Sony seems to offer more.


----------



## jant71 (Jul 7, 2019)

Bluedio Hi down to $14.99 shipped from the Bluedio US store... https://www.ebay.com/i/392303512199...MI2tPBm_ej4wIVQv_jBx3sSwx5EAQYASABEgJMCPD_BwE


----------



## d3myz (Jul 7, 2019)

Hey All,

Here's my crappy review of the Anbes D42. I purchased them on Amazon for around $35.

I'm not good at this but I'll do my best. I compared them to my QCY T1-Pro, T1C, Tiso i4 and Anbes 359's. I swapped out the stock tips for JVC Spiral Dots size Small and I used Youtube, Audible and Spotify as my sources.
If anyone is interested here is a link to my spotify Playlist I use to compare.

First Impressions the look really cool, build quality is good and the case is excellent, but in comparison to the 359's they are massive. Almost double the width.
Fit and sound isolation is excellent, Volume and controls work great. One irritation I found while listening to music on Youtube. When I hold the button to power the headphones off it switches back or forward tracks before powering them off. I ended up have to double tap and hold to avoid this.
Volume is Excellent, I believe they are even louder than the 359's and you can really get the bass bumping.
The sound signature is similar to the 359's but the overall quantity of mid range and treble is lower and there's much more mid and low bass.
The sound Stage on the 359's is def. wider, but the D42 is still pretty good, not as good as the Tiso I4 or the QCY T1C but very close.
Highs are thinner and bit brighter, but not siblant, I didn't experience any hissing or static noise and the range is great.
I didn't experience any disconnects, but the sound sometimes seems to pan from left to right when first starting a track after pairing. I also have a pair of Syllable's that do this, but It wasn't an issue for me.
Bass on the other hand is too much for me to handle in most genre's, however for hip-hop and electronic where there's a lack of mid-bass they sound great.
They have a bump, but i wouldn't call it a punch, they lack some attack and accuracy in the bass and low bass it's boomy yet clear, but not crisp.
IMO the overabundance of bass throws off the balance of the earbuds although it doesn't seem to effect the output of the treble and mid/high mids which is nice, they are still very defined, but I wish they had a more forward presence like the 359's,
All in All, they are pretty fun. They sound great with Electronic and Hip-Hop and really good with other genre's, They are great for audiobooks. The speech is clear and crisp.
For me the boomy and round bass and mid bass could be eq'd better and the the highs and high mids need to be louder in the eq.

In Conclusion, If you like the 359's you'll like these, but in comparison, they just aren't as fun to listen to if your not bumping hip-hop, electronic or house music.
They don't have quite the excitement and liveliness the 359's and T1C's, do but they are a good quality and good sounding TWS, I'm personally going to return them. I ordered the 360's today to test them out. Hope this wasn't too bad of a review, Cheers.

My ratings are in comparison to other Chi-Fi, as I don't have any other high end TWS'

Build Quality (8
Case and Packaging  (8)
Fit and Feel  (9)
Sound Stage (8)
Battery life @ 3.5 hours (7.5)
Bass (8.5)
Mid (7/7.5)
Treble (7.5)
Overall Sound Quality (7.75)
Value (7.5)


----------



## FunctionalDoc (Jul 7, 2019)

clerkpalmer said:


> I preordered them a couple of weeks ago. Klipsch said mid July ship date. Crutchfield had them listed as shipping  July 11 but now it shows 8/1. I’m actually coming to the opposite conclusion as you however.  For 30 more, Sony seems to offer more.


Sony doesn't have AptX and not using all the features of Bluetooth 5.0, not as sweat and water resistant. Sony always has habit of charging more since they are Sony.

Ultimately like to test them both for latency and range. Time will tell once more people test and review them.

I think I will wait another couple months before pulling the trigger.

Nice review on T5's latency and build issues .


----------



## jant71

Read this on the Verge..."Sony says it's using a new Bluetooth chip—the company wouldn't specify which one when asked—and a “new optimized antenna structure” to keep connection quality steady. Both of the WF-1000XM3’s earbuds connect to a source device simultaneously as well, instead of the more fickle method of having one earbud connect and “bounce” its signal to the other. The whole thing connects over Bluetooth 5."

The connection thing sounds good in theory. Still playing games with the won't specify the chip thing. Others can't say it fast enough if there is a good chip. Not having aptx either. I'd say buy/order the Sony from a place you can return just in case.


----------



## actorlife

Anyone ever try them? Basically mifo 05: https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https://www.ebay.com/ulk/itm/264374648620


----------



## jant71 (Jul 7, 2019)

actorlife said:


> Anyone ever try them? Basically mifo 05: https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https://www.ebay.com/ulk/itm/264374648620



You'd want the X1E more. Trust me. https://www.ebay.com/i/123747309888...&rk=4&rkt=26&sd=383007393326&itm=424357206954


----------



## Caipirina

Quick question : best TWS for sleeping with? 

I recall this came up before, but I can’t find that post anymore. Besides fit, one big question for me is, which TWE ‘die’ silently without some voice yelling ‘recharge- low battery’. 

I tried with Anbes 359, which fit well, but few hours into sleep, that voice wakes me up ...

Someone was certain their model xyz ‘goes quietly ‘


----------



## chinmie (Jul 7, 2019)

jant71 said:


> You'd want the X1E more. Trust me. https://www.ebay.com/i/123747309888?rt=nc&var=424357206954&_trkparms=aid=222007&algo=SIM.MBE&ao=2&asc=20160908110712&meid=5e302793dbe744c8b6c4cf38d30de945&pid=100677&rk=4&rkt=26&sd=383007393326&itm=424357206954



what's the difference between the X1 and X1E? 



Caipirina said:


> Quick question : best TWS for sleeping with?
> 
> I recall this came up before, but I can’t find that post anymore. Besides fit, one big question for me is, which TWE ‘die’ silently without some voice yelling ‘recharge- low battery’.
> 
> ...



the QCY only beeps when it's low on battery (also when pairing),but might be a little big on the ears. the mifo is really comfortable to sleep with, but i forgot how it sounded when run out of battery, because honestly it never did on me. usually i used them until i slept and the playlist stops by itself. when i woke up in the morning it usually on standby and still have 40% or more juice left


----------



## DigDub

FunctionalDoc said:


> Anyone know the release of the Klipsch  T5 TRUE WIRELESS EARPHONES ?
> 
> These look better then the new Sony s for less money on paper.


They are already released in some countries. Singapore has them since about 2 weeks ago


----------



## vstolpner

chinmie said:


> what's the difference between the X1 and X1E?
> 
> 
> 
> the QCY only beeps when it's low on battery (also when pairing),but might be a little big on the ears. the mifo is really comfortable to sleep with, but i forgot how it sounded when run out of battery, because honestly it never did on me. usually i used them until i slept and the playlist stops by itself. when i woke up in the morning it usually on standby and still have 40% or more juice left



+1 on the mifo's - could never drain their battery to even below 80%

I imagine the pro version will last longer as the balanced armature drivers tend to be more efficient


----------



## jant71

chinmie said:


> what's the difference between the X1 and X1E?



BA vs. Dynamic and color choices. Not sure if there are any other tweaks as I have not seen any in depth comparison of the two.

I have seen good opinions on the Dynamic. One, on Penon, claims as good as the No. 3 but that should be looked into to see how true or hyperbolic it is. looking like the dynamic is the better sounding of the two if not actually No. 3 good. I have not heard either myself so only hear say or read say


----------



## chinmie

jant71 said:


> BA vs. Dynamic and color choices. Not sure if there are any other tweaks as I have not seen any in depth comparison of the two.
> 
> I have seen good opinions on the Dynamic. One, on Penon, claims as good as the No. 3 but that should be looked into to see how true or hyperbolic it is. looking like the dynamic is the better sounding of the two if not actually No. 3 good. I have not heard either myself so only hear say or read say



the X1E is the dynamic driver version? if so, then based on my experience with both the standard and pro mifo, the X1E (dynamic) would be the better version. 

i love the mifo o5 standard and recommend it, though i sold mine when i acquired the Nillkin Go, which suited my sound preference and usage more.


----------



## jant71

^ I think actorlife should go that way and perhaps the few short comments are leading to a truth. Perhaps you'll get experience with the third one and shed some more light on it.


----------



## vstolpner

I know some people here are looking at the MEE X10's - well they're going on Lightning sale in Amazon US tomorrow morning

https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B07R..._m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_r=PTNMV1WBND33PFNY8J6T


----------



## Nikaidoboss

Hey guys
I need some quick advice please
I've been torn on what to buy and researching
I need a TWS mainly for the GYM/Convenience
I really appreciate good sound and own a Game One and momentum normal IEM and an HD800 (I rarely use it)
I ended up between Jabra 65t active and Momentum True wireless
I was gonna buy the jabra but i found a big discount on a local website for momentum TWS (Jabra 240$ and Senn 280$) price delivered in South Africa.
Shud I go for Momentum at that juicy price ?
I will use it for GYM/Everyday , I really appreciate good sound (I listen to uplifting trance/country/ maybe some classical also), I will occasionally use it for calls while at gym

quick advice pls cause only 10 left for senn at that price


----------



## chinmie

Nikaidoboss said:


> Hey guys
> I need some quick advice please
> I've been torn on what to buy and researching
> I need a TWS mainly for the GYM/Convenience
> ...



go with the Sennheiser


----------



## Nikaidoboss

chinmie said:


> go with the Sennheiser


Any specific reasoning ?


----------



## chinmie

Nikaidoboss said:


> Any specific reasoning ?



the jabra is not worth 240 in my opinion. it's a solid product, but soundwise you're better off with chifi.. much better sound with cheaper price. not to mention it's a bit hard to get a seal (me personally) with the 65t, and it hurts using it for longer period.


----------



## Soreniglio

These also seem okay:


----------



## nc8000

Just got a reply back from Sony where they confirm that there is no moisture protection what so ever on the new 1000XM3 in ear. Extremely dissapointing and a complete no go for me


----------



## clerkpalmer

nc8000 said:


> Just got a reply back from Sony where they confirm that there is no moisture protection what so ever on the new 1000XM3 in ear. Extremely dissapointing and a complete no go for me


This is insane on any level. Interestingly, air pods were released wo any sweatproofing and it was later determined they could handle sweat just fine. I guess we will see but I’m not buying them yet. The entire use purpose for tw is gym and activity. Major misfire by Sony.


----------



## Thesonofkrypton

Well to be fair, the WF-1000X were not waterproof and I've never had an issue with them in the rain, in the gym, on the beach.  What exactly are you planning to do with them? lol

I can understand for the price you'd want it all, all the bells and whistles and everything but I think considering the water resistance of the previous pair even without proper certification, I'd happily purchase the new pair with no issues.


----------



## nc8000

Thesonofkrypton said:


> Well to be fair, the WF-1000X were not waterproof and I've never had an issue with them in the rain, in the gym, on the beach.  What exactly are you planning to do with them? lol
> 
> I can understand for the price you'd want it all, all the bells and whistles and everything but I think considering the water resistance of the previous pair even without proper certification, I'd happily purchase the new pair with no issues.



I just want to be sure they are not damaged by sweat from a long, hot walk or run or sudden rain. The reply from Sony was not to use them in any such situation so at the price I’m not gonna be the one to ignore that as Sony clearly not will honour any damage done by moisture


----------



## Thesonofkrypton

nc8000 said:


> I just want to be sure they are not damaged by sweat from a long, hot walk or run or sudden rain. The reply from Sony was not to use them in any such situation so at the price I’m not gonna be the one to ignore that as Sony clearly not will honour any damage done by moisture



no, that's completely understandable, they're not cheap! but if they're anything like the old pair on that front, I personally wouldn't worry too much.  Especially if you purchase them from somewhere like Amazon who would be happy to resolve issues pronto if you did have any water issues.


----------



## david8613

that's why we have multiple pair of TW, you got have a beater, a gym pair, and nice pair for home listening. even though I am guilty of using all my TW in the gym, none have given the ghost yet. unless your absolutely drenched in sweat every work out, in a steam sauna, or swimming in a pool I would not worry too much, and I sweat a lot when I work out. the only ones I know that are better at this because of ratings, is the Jabra 65t active, and Jabra elites, the elites you can actually swim in them with out a problem.


----------



## actorlife (Jul 8, 2019)

Soreniglio said:


> These also seem okay:



Yeah saw that last night. They stole my idea of case in a case. 





Also updated my sig. TWS Overviews and added some newer STUFF.


----------



## actorlife

jant71 said:


> ^ I think actorlife should go that way and perhaps the few short comments are leading to a truth. Perhaps you'll get experience with the third one and shed some more light on it.


Thanks. I wanted to try the BA version. I have alot of dynamic TWS already.


----------



## hifi80sman

Looks like the MPOW T5 is back in stock at Amazon.  Decided to pick these up and see how they fare in comparison to their gaudy specs.


----------



## vstolpner

hifi80sman said:


> Looks like the MPOW T5 is back in stock at Amazon.  Decided to pick these up and see how they fare in comparison to their gaudy specs.



Let us know, they definitely look interesting!


----------



## vstolpner

actorlife said:


> Thanks. I wanted to try the BA version. I have alot of dynamic TWS already.



So pick something up off Amazon so you can return if you don't like it. Too bad Astrotec S60 aren't on Amazon


----------



## actorlife (Jul 8, 2019)

hifi80sman said:


> Looks like the MPOW T5 is back in stock at Amazon.  Decided to pick these up and see how they fare in comparison to their gaudy specs.


I really like my Mpow MBH5B-PS-2 Swift Bluetooth 4.0/APTX. I bought them back in 2015 for $13.53(lightning sale) and always recommended them(Sparkly highs & Bass tight just right) and still do(Try Ebay). I gave them as gifts and they loved them. 




I had been looking at reviews of their latest TWS and it's a mix bag. Looking forward to your observations.


----------



## Caipirina (Jul 8, 2019)

PSA: The D015 TWS are utter TRASH    (And Bartig had warned me, well, after I impulse ordered them)

So, they arrived today in a pretty beat up box, and gee, I ordered black and would you look at this:




Besides that the ample LEDs make it look like a cheap disco / failed xmas ornament, one of those never turns off until apparently the battery dies. The few times I tried, they still will try to pair after I put them back in the box to charge...The manual says there is an on/off button, which I fail to find
It is kinda maddening that the technology is all there, they pair (eventually) on both ears, they play music, but overall a failed product ...

And the best (worst) for last: The sound is beyond bad!!! It's harsh, the embodiment of sibillance when it comes to highs ... overall ear torture!

Well, 10$ for learning curve .. and now I have a pair I can let people try to experience 'the difference'


----------



## Nikaidoboss

Ok so I ordered the Momentum TWS @ 270$ Including shipping and taxes ( They were 25% off ) compared to Jabra 65t which I would have paid 240$ for.
But I am not much much worried from all the battery issues I see facing this TWS
Are these issues only related to momentums ?
Please geif advice


----------



## rhsauer

hifi80sman said:


> Looks like the MPOW T5 is back in stock at Amazon.  Decided to pick these up and see how they fare in comparison to their gaudy specs.



I love the T5s.  The only drawback is no volume control, but I’ve always thought they sounded terrific.  I use spinfit tips and they’re so comfortable I can forget I’m wearing them.


----------



## vstolpner

Caipirina said:


> PSA: The D015 TWS are utter TRASH    (And Bartig had warned me, well, after I impulse ordered them)
> 
> So, they arrived today in a pretty beat up box, and gee, I ordered black and would you look at this:
> 
> ...



Oh wow those are awful!! Made my morning though!! LOL


----------



## vstolpner

rhsauer said:


> I love the T5s.  The only drawback is no volume control, but I’ve always thought they sounded terrific.  I use spinfit tips and they’re so comfortable I can forget I’m wearing them.



Do they fit in the case with the SpinFit eartips?


----------



## actorlife

rhsauer said:


> I love the T5s.  The only drawback is no volume control, but I’ve always thought they sounded terrific.  I use spinfit tips and they’re so comfortable I can forget I’m wearing them.


Ah that's why I passed on them. NO DAMN DANGIT Vol Control and probably 3.5 hr battery. Errrrrr.


----------



## rhsauer

vstolpner said:


> Do they fit in the case with the SpinFit eartips?



Yes, they fit.  I’m using these, and they fit just fine: SpinFit CP100Z - Patented Silicone Eartips for Replacement (2 Pairs) (4 mm Nozzle Dia.) (Large) https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0797MSWS4/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_tai_5U4iDbNP5Z6TC — and the case is relatively forgiving for third party tips generally (which is good, because I didn’t much like the tips that came with the earphones).


----------



## rhsauer (Jul 8, 2019)

actorlife said:


> Ah that's why I passed on them. NO DAMN DANGIT Vol Control and probably 3.5 hr battery. Errrrrr.



The missing volume control is unfortunate — but the battery seems to last quite a while. (7hrs. perhaps?)

Edit:  I see the Amazon listing claims 5 hrs. battery life — I feel like I’ve been getting more, but I haven’t done any rigorous tests.


----------



## pack21

Loving the Creative Outlier Air, it can't go wrong.

Great features, sound, no fatigue, fit, confort, batery.


----------



## Nikaidoboss

Nikaidoboss said:


> Ok so I ordered the Momentum TWS @ 270$ Including shipping and taxes ( They were 25% off ) compared to Jabra 65t which I would have paid 240$ for.
> But I am not much much worried from all the battery issues I see facing this TWS
> Are these issues only related to momentums ?
> Please geif advice


Anybody =(


----------



## d3myz

Caipirina said:


> I kinda stopped looking for now .. knowing my time constraints and the fact that I have waaaayyy too many TWE now
> 
> These remind me in shape on the Tiso ... in a different case ... nothing that screams 'gotta have' ..


I really like my Tiso I4's.


----------



## actorlife (Jul 8, 2019)

Nikaidoboss said:


> Anybody =(


I've never tried the Momentum TWS and don't think anybody in this thread has posted thoughts on them here. I actually don't pay attention to anything over $80. My rec would be the Anbes 359. You can see my overview in my sig. Charging more than $80 is a sin when there are other Chi-Fi just as good and maybe even better for 30-80 bucks. I also don't understand why people want an app to EQ when you can get a great cheap player like Poweramp with great EQ options for android/IOS(I Think). Just my Humble Opinion.


----------



## clerkpalmer

Nikaidoboss said:


> Ok so I ordered the Momentum TWS @ 270$ Including shipping and taxes ( They were 25% off ) compared to Jabra 65t which I would have paid 240$ for.
> But I am not much much worried from all the battery issues I see facing this TWS
> Are these issues only related to momentums ?
> Please geif advice


You made the right decision. Far superior sq. The trick with mtw is to keep the case charged at all times. If you let the case die, the battery issues will follow.


----------



## Nikaidoboss

clerkpalmer said:


> You made the right decision. Far superior sq. The trick with mtw is to keep the case charged at all times. If you let the case die, the battery issues will follow.


I honestly dont mind to keep them plugged in most of the day anyways
Like I  have a USB-C charger in car and at work and at home
so I can just plug them in every time I finish my gym workout and on the way to gym as well as at work

My question tho is it okay to charge them daily or does that reduce battery life
How much degradation should one expect if I would to charge it every day ?


----------



## clerkpalmer

Nikaidoboss said:


> I honestly dont mind to keep them plugged in most of the day anyways
> Like I  have a USB-C charger in car and at work and at home
> so I can just plug them in every time I finish my gym workout and on the way to gym as well as at work
> 
> ...



I'm no expert but I wouldn't worry about it too much.  Some people keep their phones on chargers 24/7.  By the time the battery has crapped out, the tech will have advanced far enough that you'll be ready for something new.


----------



## nc8000

actorlife said:


> I've never tried the Momentum TWS and don't think anybody in this thread has posted thoughts on them here. I actually don't pay attention to anything over $80. My rec would be the Anbes 359. You can see my overview in my sig. Charging more than $80 is a sin when there are other Chi-Fi just as good and maybe even better for 30-80 bucks. I also don't understand why people want an app to EQ when you can get a great cheap player like Poweramp with great EQ options for android/IOS(I Think). Just my Humble Opinion.



There must be 100’s of posts about the Momentum in this thread


----------



## vstolpner (Jul 8, 2019)

Nikaidoboss said:


> I honestly dont mind to keep them plugged in most of the day anyways
> Like I  have a USB-C charger in car and at work and at home
> so I can just plug them in every time I finish my gym workout and on the way to gym as well as at work
> 
> ...



With typical use (and typical charging) a smartphone battery degrades to about 70-80% over two years. Assuming they're using lower quality batteries, that might be lower. Unless you always keep the case plugged in, you won't see any worse than 50% over two years. You'll notice the degradation of the battery in the earpieces long before you notice that same issue in the case. And by then you'll either lose them, break them, or just upgrade due to better tech available.

For those really curious - keeping your lithium battery charged in the 50-80% capacity is the best way to prolong it's life, but that's not really usable. I think Tesla keeps their batteries charged at 90% capacity unless you specifically tell it to charge to 100%, and that's enough to remain above 90% after two years of usage.


----------



## Bartig (Jul 8, 2019)

One thing I didn't yet test and compare my earphones on... microphone quality. Until now. The Tranya T3 is a big surprise; I thought they would really block the sound due to their shape, but they sound one of the most clear - along with the Havit I91 and the Whizzer TP1.

For those of you that have more than one tws: what do you think offers the best microphone quality?


----------



## vstolpner

Curious about everyone's experience with noise isolation - what do you find are the best isolating TWE IEMs / TWS IEM-eartip combos?

Want to know what would work best for use in woodworking / blocking noise during commute


----------



## vstolpner

Bartig said:


> One thing I didn't yet test and compare my earphones on... microphone quality. Until now. The Tranya T3 is a big surprise; I thought they would really block the sound due to their shape, but they sound one of the most clear - along with the Havit I91 and the Whizzer TP1.
> 
> For those of you that have more than one tws: what do you think offers the best microphone quality?



Funny enough Anbes 359 are the best when compared to mifo O5 and Astrotec Motivation/S80


----------



## actorlife (Jul 8, 2019)

vstolpner said:


> Curious about everyone's experience with noise isolation - what do you find are the best isolating TWE IEMs / TWS IEM-eartip combos?
> 
> Want to know what would work best for use in woodworking / blocking noise during commute


I would guess the foam tips: 
https://www.complyfoam.com/products/tg-truegrip/
Maybe Slater will chime in.


----------



## vstolpner

actorlife said:


> I would guess the foam tips:
> https://www.complyfoam.com/products/tg-truegrip/
> Maybe Slater will chime in.



Interesting, I've found foam tips isolate less :-/
Might try those hybrid silicone/foam tips though


----------



## dhc0329

Anyone tried TWS600 True Wireless Hi-Fi Earphones by HIFIMAN?
https://hifiman.com/products/detail/299


----------



## FYLegend

I got the Anbes 359 today but the version I got was rebranded as Coolhere UFO.


----------



## AtariPrime

actorlife said:


> I would guess the foam tips:
> https://www.complyfoam.com/products/tg-truegrip/
> Maybe Slater will chime in.



I find foam tips uncomfortable. Try Spinfits.


----------



## Slater

vstolpner said:


> Interesting, I've found foam tips isolate less :-/
> Might try those hybrid silicone/foam tips though



Yeah, the hybrid tips isolate more for me. But it could be different for some people.


----------



## actorlife

FYLegend said:


> I got the Anbes 359 today but the version I got was rebranded as Coolhere UFO.


Cool let's see some pics and impressions. ✌️


----------



## dhc0329

Can anyone recommend the wireless earbud with the longest run time?


----------



## vladzakhar

Creative outlier air run for about 9 hours


----------



## vladzakhar

I got the Anbes 359 today too. Very impressive. The sound just like Senns. I hate the case, though.


----------



## vladzakhar

Also trying out Galaxy Buds. They sound very nice too. I like the form factor and the case is one of the best.


----------



## hifi80sman (Jul 8, 2019)

Still waiting on my MPOW T5, but in the meantime, I picked up the Cowin KY02 and the TOP BS02.  Both were disappointing, but for different reasons.

*Cowin KY02*

PROS:
- Sound is good, actually, really good.
- AAC Codec.
- USB-C.
- Clam shell case that covers the charging case.
- Responsive touch controls.

CONS:
- Sometimes the buds don't pair with one another out of the case, so you have to put back in, then take back out.
- Despite the promo hype, call quality is quite poor and totally unusable for any business purpose.  Everyone had the same remark: echos, sounds like I was in a tunnel.
- Left bud was a little louder than the right.

*TOP BS02*

PROS:
- TOP notch case (pun intended).  Metal, feels substantial.
- USB-C
- AAC Codec.

CONS:
- Sound on the thin side.  Not tinny, but not rich.  Kinda like 5' 5" and skinny.  Captain America _*before *_he was Captain America.
- Touch controls on right earbud completely non-functional.  Left side was fine.
- Poor fit.  None of the ear tips fit.  If you have small ear canals, probably OK.  Can't use many third party ear tips, as the case does not accommodate.
- Didn't even make it to testing a phone call.  It's a con because I can't even get to the point where I want to make a call.


----------



## vstolpner

AtariPrime said:


> I find foam tips uncomfortable. Try Spinfits.



I've got a pair of those, but the tips that came with the mifo O5 work better on conjunction with the Anbes 359.



Slater said:


> Yeah, the hybrid tips isolate more for me. But it could be different for some people.



I'll have to try them out. Any specific brand you're using?


----------



## vstolpner

hifi80sman said:


> CONS:
> - Sound on the thin side.  Not tinny, but not rich.  Kinda like 5' 5" and skinny.  Captain America _*before *_he was Captain America.



That's an amazing reference!! LOL


----------



## vstolpner

dhc0329 said:


> Can anyone recommend the wireless earbud with the longest run time?



Mifo O5 are advertised as 7 but if you get the balanced armature model and listen at less than full volume you can probably get away with more than that. Plus amazing sound quality


----------



## vstolpner

FYLegend said:


> I got the Anbes 359 today but the version I got was rebranded as Coolhere UFO.



Let us know what you think! Fair warning: if you don't like them - it's because the manufacturer tweaked something


----------



## vstolpner

hifi80sman said:


> Still waiting on my MPOW T5, but in the meantime, I picked up the Cowin KY02 and the TOP BS02.  Both were disappointing, but for different reasons.
> 
> *Cowin KY02*
> 
> ...



Thanks for the "Do not buy" list


----------



## dhc0329

vstolpner said:


> Mifo O5 are advertised as 7 but if you get the balanced armature model and listen at less than full volume you can probably get away with more than that. Plus amazing sound quality



Thanks for your input. I checked on Amazon and there are two different version IPX7 and IP67. Are you referring to IPX7?


----------



## vstolpner

dhc0329 said:


> Thanks for your input. I checked on Amazon and there are two different version IPX7 and IP67. Are you referring to IPX7?



There's no difference like that as far as I'm aware. The only difference is between standard and professional versions. Standard is dynamic driver and professional is balanced armature. 
TFZ rebranded theses too: X1 (mifo O5 professional - balanced armature) and X1E (mifo O5 Standard - dynamic). I'm not aware of any audio tuning differences between mifo and TFZ but I haven't tested personally either


----------



## snip3r77

vladzakhar said:


> I got the Anbes 359 today too. Very impressive. The sound just like Senns. I hate the case, though.


Would this be the choice for sub $50?


----------



## vstolpner

snip3r77 said:


> Would this be the choice for sub $50?



It's either that or the Tranya T3. Those get a lot of praise on here too. Haven't reviewed them personally, but they're on the way for me


----------



## srinivasvignesh

Can anyone confirm that the Mifo o5 (standard or pro) can connect to 2 devices simultaneously? 

Thanks


----------



## chinmie (Jul 8, 2019)

srinivasvignesh said:


> Can anyone confirm that the Mifo o5 (standard or pro) can connect to 2 devices simultaneously?
> 
> Thanks



in stereo? no,it could not


----------



## srinivasvignesh

I mean, can it stay connected to both my phone and my laptop? I am not sure if I phrased my question correctly.


----------



## FYLegend (Jul 8, 2019)

Instructions in Chinese, no


vstolpner said:


> Let us know what you think! Fair warning: if you don't like them - it's because the manufacturer tweaked something


These came from "Anbes Audiocart" rather than "Anbes Official" but otherwise seem to be legit.
.

Instruction manual was in Chinese, not much in the case.

Out of the box I'm noticing the left bud has considerably more bass =/. Part of it could just be my hearing or the seal though and it seems to have evened out a bit after charging them and more prolonged use. Love the fact these fit "standard" IEM eartips (such as those from Audio-Technica) instead of short-nozzle ones. Fiddling with the seal is dodgy as it causes the sound to cut off, suggests the drivers are sensitive to pressure although they don't crinkle or flex much . On both buds there is some "fuzz" with pianos, which I previously noticed on the Jabra 65t and Astrotec S60's left buds (on S60 it's only really noticeable with SBC).

Latency seems a tad behind the Jabra 65t but not as bad as Astrotec S60

Comfort: Astrotec S60 > UFO > Jabra 65t. Jabra and comfort shouldn't be in one sentence.

Otherwise, it is a bright + funsound.


----------



## actorlife

dhc0329 said:


> Can anyone recommend the wireless earbud with the longest run time?


Check the last 10 pages. Lots of options coming between 8-12hr battery. One of them is only $80.


----------



## albau

vladzakhar said:


> I got the Anbes 359 today too. Very impressive. The sound just like Senns. I hate the case, though.


What exactly you hate the case for? Have no such hard feelings towards mine.


----------



## FYLegend

Well for me, I feel like the left and right positions on the UFO case should be swapped.  I'm used to taking them out of the case with the nozzle facing down so it's a bit odd. Another issue is that using 3rd party eartips, while they fit the earbuds nicely, don't fit in the case reliably. For example ATH eartips tend to fit in but sometimes get pushed out slightly causing the buds to turn on.

Some promo renderings for Coolhere UFO show a white version, but I have not seen any other photos of this. On their site Coolhear.com, they actually show a box with a photo of a white case but inside it's still the black version.

Here seems to be more colours of UFO/Anbes/
https://www.amazon.com/Wireless-Bluetooth-Cancelling-Playtime-Headphones/dp/B07LGVXDQF?th=1


----------



## vstolpner (Jul 8, 2019)

FYLegend said:


> Well for me, I feel like the left and right positions on the UFO case should be swapped.  I'm used to taking them out of the case with the nozzle facing down so it's a bit odd. Another issue is that using 3rd party eartips, while they fit the earbuds nicely, don't fit in the case reliably. For example ATH eartips tend to fit in but sometimes get pushed out slightly causing the buds to turn on.
> 
> Some promo renderings for Coolhere UFO show a white version, but I have not seen any other photos of this. On their site Coolhear.com, they actually show a box with a photo of a white case but inside it's still the black version.
> 
> ...



Yeah I noticed the left/right swap too, but then realised that they did that so the buds would fit in the case nicely. Otherwise the eartips are looking away from each other and would be sticking out of the circle (if that makes sense). I got used to this fairly quickly but it was odd, I agree.

Actually what bugs me about the case more are the four bright blue LEDs. They light up the room if you put them it at night!
(Or is that a "flashlight feature" they forgot to advertise? )

And a white version, or even blue or red would have been great! Maybe I'll spray mine at some point, who knows


----------



## FYLegend

vstolpner said:


> Yeah I noticed the left/right swap too, but then realised that they did that so the buds would fit in the case nicely. Otherwise the eartips are looking away from each other and would be sticking out of the circle (if that makes sense). I got used to this fairly quickly but it was odd, I agree.
> 
> Actually what bugs me about the case more are the four bright blue LEDs. They light up the room if you put them it at night!
> (Or is that a "flashlight feature" they forgot to advertise? )
> ...


The Coolhere has yellowish-white LEDs instead of blue ones. They're also a bit dim as well.


----------



## vstolpner

FYLegend said:


> The Coolhere has yellowish-white LEDs instead of blue ones. They're also a bit dim as well.



Oh... Can you take a picture?


----------



## FYLegend

vstolpner said:


> Oh... Can you take a picture?


----------



## riodgarp

I got mifo o5 pro 6 days ago, also got same problems as airpods : right side charge slower than left side, bad connectivity with android phone. talking about accessories and sound it's good, for non critical audiophile like me


----------



## vstolpner (Jul 9, 2019)

riodgarp said:


> I got mifo o5 pro 6 days ago, also got same problems as airpods : right side charge slower than left side, bad connectivity with android phone. talking about accessories and sound it's good, for non critical audiophile like me



Yeah I had connectivity issues with mine too.

Charging time difference night be because right side is master and uses more battery - so it's not due to charging differences but battery usage during playback.

Sounds quality was awesome though.

How do you like the eartips?

Update:
Oh, and they get better after a couple weeks usage.

Also - do yours make a high pitched buzzing sound when charging?


----------



## vstolpner

FYLegend said:


>


This is mine:


----------



## riodgarp (Jul 9, 2019)

vstolpner said:


> Yeah I had connectivity issues with mine too.
> 
> *Charging time difference night be because right side is master and uses more battery - so it's not due to charging differences but battery usage during playback.*
> 
> ...



is that so?  I almost got angry to the seller (and manufacturer too) and almost want send back to them 
the eartips is good but not fit on my left ear, its almost to fall off, now I'm using spiral dot eartips though is not good idea, my ears feels just like swimming underwater ....

buzzing? you mean when both iem placed into its case? nope


----------



## Soreniglio

I bought my pair of Anbes from Audiocart too.

Hopefully they won't be rebranded


----------



## vstolpner

riodgarp said:


> is that so?  I almost got angry to the seller (and manufacturer too) and almost want send back to them
> the eartips is good but not fit on my left ear, its almost to fall off, now I'm using spiral dot eartips though is not good idea, my ears feels just like swimming underwater ....



Try the mifo eartips with earphones that sit deeper in the ear. I use them with Anbes 359 and the noise isolation is fantastic.


----------



## vstolpner

Soreniglio said:


> I bought my pair of Anbes from Audiocart too.
> 
> Hopefully they won't be rebranded



Does it really matter if the quality is the same?


----------



## riodgarp

vstolpner said:


> Try the mifo eartips with earphones that sit deeper in the ear. I use them with Anbes 359 and the noise isolation is fantastic.



so what eartips do you use for mifo? I considering spinfit cp350 or cp360 tough


----------



## Soreniglio

vstolpner said:


> Does it really matter if the quality is the same?



I always fear that a rebrand might not be the same thing of the "original" pair.


----------



## vstolpner

riodgarp said:


> so what eartips do you use for mifo? I considering spinfit cp350 or cp360 tough



I used the mifo eartips - they fit me fine, to I had to step up the size. Try the larger more cylindrical ones. Since they're so thin they should be able to conform to your ear pretty easy.

The SpinFit gave me a good seal, but they didn't sit in the case because they stuck out a bit - if you cut them down they might.

Problem is the mifo's were designed for a shallow ear fitment, so longer tips won't fit in the case.



Soreniglio said:


> I always fear that a rebrand might not be the same thing of the "original" pair.



Yeah that's a risk, but I believe AE gives you purchase protection - if you're sent a rebrand when you order the original, you should be covered. Though don't take my word on this


----------



## nc8000

Soreniglio said:


> I always fear that a rebrand might not be the same thing of the "original" pair.



I bet Anbes is also just a rebrand of some unknown oem manufacturer


----------



## riodgarp

vstolpner said:


> I used the mifo eartips - they fit me fine, to I had to step up the size. Try the larger more cylindrical ones. Since they're so thin they should be able to conform to your ear pretty easy.
> 
> The SpinFit gave me a good seal, but they didn't sit in the case because they stuck out a bit - if you cut them down they might.
> 
> ...




I had tried the largest one, still not as fit as spiral dot and I'm afraid large eartips would blocked the charging pin


----------



## FYLegend

vstolpner said:


> Does it really matter if the quality is the same?


The channel imbalance I described is of concern, haven't seen any complaints about it here... My left ear is naturally a bit more sensitive to sub-bass, but it sounds as if the left bud starts out bloated with sub-bass. Sometimes if I fiddle with the seal it sounds somewhat more balanced but it's still an issue I'd look out for.

Have you noticed any driver flex or cutting when putting them into your ears? If I try to fiddle with the seal, I can't hear the driver actually flex, but the audio cuts (not digitally, sounds like it's due to air pressure). If I do this during a bassy part I sometimes hear the bass distort on the left driver...


----------



## vstolpner

FYLegend said:


> The channel imbalance I described is of concern, haven't seen any complaints about it here... My left ear is naturally a bit more sensitive to sub-bass, but it sounds as if the left bud starts out bloated with sub-bass. Sometimes if I fiddle with the seal it sounds somewhat more balanced but it's still an issue I'd look out for.
> 
> Have you noticed any driver flex or cutting when putting them into your ears? If I try to fiddle with the seal, I can't hear the driver actually flex, but the audio cuts (not digitally, sounds like it's due to air pressure). If I do this during a bassy part I sometimes hear the bass distort on the left driver...



I can hear crinkle sound if I fiddle with it. Never found it concerning though.... Should I?

Update
Try different eartips. I mentioned in using mifo tips and it's way better than stock. Better deal is everything


----------



## jlcsoft

I´ve got a syllable S101, I am using it with aptx codec, but I am not really happy with the sound. If  I compare it with my in ears kz as10, there is a big difference. I don´t know if it is by the quality of the headphones or because with The kz, I use de cable/dac Hidiz s Sonata II. I am thinking to sell
the syllable and get de sabbat E12. Has somebody compare both TWS and aprreciate a better sound quaality and sound stage in the sabbat´s?.

Thanks for your help.


----------



## Zune

I've just pulled the pin and ordered some Tranya T3's. I've been following this thread for over a month and it was between the Tranya's and the Anbes 359 which i can't find on Amazon anymore so with the Tranya's getting mostly good reports i thought i'd give them a go. I'm off on holiday next week so wanted something without a cable to try lying on the beach. I'm really looking forward to trying them, they will be my first TWE's


----------



## clerkpalmer

The verge properly blasting Sony for no sweatproofing: 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.th...m3-wireless-earbuds-hands-on-preview-features


----------



## chinmie

FYLegend said:


> Have you noticed any driver flex or cutting when putting them into your ears? If I try to fiddle with the seal, I can't hear the driver actually flex, but the audio cuts (not digitally, sounds like it's due to air pressure). If I do this during a bassy part I sometimes hear the bass distort on the left driver...





vstolpner said:


> I can hear crinkle sound if I fiddle with it. Never found it concerning though.... Should I?
> 
> Update
> Try different eartips. I mentioned in using mifo tips and it's way better than stock. Better deal is everything



  try blowing and sucking the nozzle (very lightly) to shake the driver a bit. after some time it should hopefully settle down and don't crinkle anymore. i got that problem with my T1C, but now it doesnt crinkle anymore


----------



## baskingshark

Hi can I ask if you guys can recommend a good budget BT wireless adapter?

Basically, I just want it to be reliable, and that it won't adversely affect the sound quality of the IEMs I pair it up with.
Budget ~ $30, looking at 2 pin connector type. I seen good reviews about the BT20, but am wondering if you guys know of an even better and reliable pair than this.

Thanks for your input, appreciate it!


----------



## david8613 (Jul 9, 2019)

I think your gonna like the tranya t3 depending on your tastes, I know I do. I have been running them very hard the past 2 weeks. battery is as advertised these thing don't  want to die! case doesn't loose charge it has a larger battery inside. after a nice burn in the sound stage opened up nicely. last night I compared to my anbes 359 which I also like a lot but its a different flavor. anbes 359 has nice textured bass, more forward mids and highs slightly brighter energetic sound, plenty volume. the tranya t3 are darker more laid back but with stronger more authoritive bass. the sound is smooth, buttery, I like using them to sleep. very comfortable. button work better on t3 than the anbes 359 imo. the only thing is you have to be careful the t3 have lots of power, like anything else at normal volumes they sound great and have plenty volume, but if you push them too hard they are loud as heck, distortion will kick in and don't sound as smooth and clean, but that's with anything that produces sound happens in home theater too. I have been reaching my t3 more than my other tw hich include the sienhesser tmw, so that says a lot. the t3 are actually more comfortable to me then my sennys.but the sennys can get louder with less distortion.

I was ready to get new sonys but no volume control and no water proofing is not good, volume especially that's why I like my t3 so much over anbes the volume control works better.


----------



## vstolpner

baskingshark said:


> Hi can I ask if you guys can recommend a good budget BT wireless adapter?
> 
> Basically, I just want it to be reliable, and that it won't adversely affect the sound quality of the IEMs I pair it up with.
> Budget ~ $30, looking at 2 pin connector type. I seen good reviews about the BT20, but am wondering if you guys know of an even better and reliable pair than this.
> ...



Can honestly say the BT20 works wonders in terms of connection and sound quality. BT20S should be better still given the Qualcomm chip.

Only downsides to the BT20 is related to not having a case, larger form factor, and poor controls.


----------



## vstolpner

chinmie said:


> try blowing and sucking the nozzle (very lightly) to shake the driver a bit. after some time it should hopefully settle down and don't crinkle anymore. i got that problem with my T1C, but now it doesnt crinkle anymore



What is it that blowing would do exactly? Just stretch the driver diaphragm?

And I only hear crinkle when adjusting the IEM. When I'm just listening it's a nice clear sound


----------



## baskingshark (Jul 9, 2019)

vstolpner said:


> Can honestly say the BT20 works wonders in terms of connection and sound quality. BT20S should be better still given the Qualcomm chip.
> 
> Only downsides to the BT20 is related to not having a case, larger form factor, and poor controls.



Thanks for the advise. Will take a look at your recommendations.


----------



## chinmie

vstolpner said:


> What is it that blowing would do exactly? Just stretch the driver diaphragm?
> 
> And I only hear crinkle when adjusting the IEM. When I'm just listening it's a nice clear sound



not stretching, per se... just flexing it a bit and hopefully set the driver in a proper position. i had an iem once that crackles everytime i move it in my ears, and that sound and feeling is a bit disconcerting. i also had experienced an iem that even with that sucking and blowing still crackles to the point that i got rid of it. funny enough, the next owner didn't complain any crackles.

so that method may and may not work everytime


----------



## chinmie

so i tested the Nillkin Go and the QCY T1C on my vacation, been using the Nillkin on subways and train, also general walking around the city, while using the QCY T1C when i went to the theme park and when watching Netflix. they both passed the "one day usage test" of using it from around 10 am, and ending it at around 11 pm without ever putting it in the case. i also tried the BT20 (and Kanas) combo, but the isolation is too good even when it's not playing music, that i had to remove it everytime i want to hear or talking to someone, so i only use it at the hotel, planes,and bullet trains. 

the Nillkin is still my favorite TWS. i was set on shopping for the sony ex1000 and the ex800, but i honestly lost the urge after comparing it to the Nillkin. that was several hundred dollars saved, and my wife looked happy


----------



## RobinFood

chinmie said:


> so i tested the Nillkin Go and the QCY T1C on my vacation, been using the Nillkin on subways and train, also general walking around the city, while using the QCY T1C when i went to the theme park and when watching Netflix. they both passed the "one day usage test" of using it from around 10 am, and ending it at around 11 pm without ever putting it in the case. i also tried the BT20 (and Kanas) combo, but the isolation is too good even when it's not playing music, that i had to remove it everytime i want to hear or talking to someone, so i only use it at the hotel, planes,and bullet trains.
> 
> the Nillkin is still my favorite TWS. i was set on shopping for the sony ex1000 and the ex800, but i honestly lost the urge after comparing it to the Nillkin. that was several hundred dollars saved, and my wife looked **happy*



*relieved

I still can't believe you that it sounds so good. I would try it myself but I just bought and am waiting for a smabat s-10 to pair with a BT20S  
I love the X12 on everything but the SQ, so I am hoping to get a good sounding earbud. Sometimes IEMs give me pain from inserting too deep and pushing air through my ear (Nuarls...)


----------



## DigDub

Uni true wireless earbuds. Aptx and 10hrs battery life. Play/pause, track skip/back, volume controls. Sounds pretty well balanced, leaning to bright.


----------



## chinmie

RobinFood said:


> *relieved
> 
> I still can't believe you that it sounds so good. I would try it myself but I just bought and am waiting for a smabat s-10 to pair with a BT20S
> I love the X12 on everything but the SQ, so I am hoping to get a good sounding earbud. Sometimes IEMs give me pain from inserting too deep and pushing air through my ear (Nuarls...)



i gave one of my X12 to my wife and almost never use the other one again ever since i have the Nillkin. i also have the ER4XR and DM6 (with the ES100) with me, but i don't feel the need to take them out because i feel it's a hassle, and since the Nillkin is good enough..

ooh, and it has a really shallow insertion type..hence the low isolation. i use the wide bore whirlwind tips on it

man, the earphone store in your country is to die for!  i ended up going to the Akihabara store. i hope they'll have one soon in store for testing so you could audition it


----------



## Bartig

DigDub said:


> Uni true wireless earbuds. Aptx and 10hrs battery life. Play/pause, track skip/back, volume controls. Sounds pretty well balanced, leaning to bright.


Is this a variation on the Havit I93?


----------



## DigDub

Bartig said:


> Is this a variation on the Havit I93?


It seems like only the shell design is the same. The chips are different. The uni uses Qualcomm chip which supports aptx and has a much longer battery life of around 10 hours. The havit uses an Airoha chip which doesn't have aptx and battery life is only about 3.5 hours. Both lists the drivers as 6mm, the uni driver mentions it is graphene coated while the havit doesn't mention it, so the drivers may be differently tuned as well.


----------



## actorlife (Jul 9, 2019)

DigDub said:


> Uni true wireless earbuds. Aptx and 10hrs battery life. Play/pause, track skip/back, volume controls. Sounds pretty well balanced, leaning to bright.


Hmmm how much? Dynamic? Nevermind I remember liking these.
https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/uni-world-s-most-advanced-true-wireless-earbuds#/
Too bad you can't get the options of colors. When I choose a perk only the black ones are there. No option to choose. Darn says 12hrs. Of battery and Graphene drivers.


----------



## david8613

uni specs sound great! but do they sound great? I have heard a lot of horror stories of these Indiegogo group buys, people losing money, not getting product by date promised, and not getting the product as described or working as described. I will pass I wont be be a beta tester...


----------



## DigDub

actorlife said:


> Hmmm how much? Dynamic? Nevermind I remember liking these.
> https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/uni-world-s-most-advanced-true-wireless-earbuds#/
> Too bad you can't get the options of colors. When I choose a perk only the black ones are there. No option to choose. Darn says 12hrs. Of battery and Graphene drivers.


The comments on the sound being tinny and low volume is because they did not create a good seal. The tips that came with the earbuds are quite small and doesn't seal well. I used the tips which I use on my qcy t1c and the seal is good.

As for the touch, there is a slight learning curve. Single touch is pretty straight forward. For double taps, the first tap is sort of tap and hold it there for fractionally longer followed by the second tap. 

For the left earbud touch not working issue, I do experience it when I turn on other bluetooth earbuds and the phone connects to the other set of earbuds. When I connect back to the Uni buds, the left bud touch function will not work. Leaving it to auto power off after 5 mins and tapping it on will make it work again.


----------



## DigDub

david8613 said:


> uni specs sound great! but do they sound great? I have heard a lot of horror stories of these Indiegogo group buys, people losing money, not getting product by date promised, and not getting the product as described or working as described. I will pass I wont be be a beta tester...


They sound clear, definitely not muddy.


----------



## actorlife (Jul 9, 2019)

david8613 said:


> uni specs sound great! but do they sound great? I have heard a lot of horror stories of these Indiegogo group buys, people losing money, not getting product by date promised, and not getting the product as described or working as described. I will pass I wont be be a beta tester...



David, I had no problems with the Funcl W1 from Indiegogo. It was like a two months wait. Which is not long, but it seems like a lifetime especially since they were getting good reviews on youtube. I love mine, except for the No volume control. Bright but not harsh and great bass and not boomy. I might bite if Funcl comes out with a vol control. I don't like those stick ones that they made those have vol control. I like the smaller buds and they were only $25 shipped.
-
DigDub, so are you liking them? Did you just get them? If they are anything like the Hoopshop(Graphene) with a 12hr battery I'm sold except I want the dark blue ones. Looking forward to your review after you spent more time with them.


----------



## SilverEars (Jul 9, 2019)

Anybody know what Qualcom SOC supports separate left and right wireless connections?  Sony XM3 got me interested in this, and a review states some phones do not support it.

Anybody tried any dual wireless connection TW?  Was the reliability of connection better and was it stable in busy environments?

How was the latency?

I wonder if there was out of sync issue for those TW worked with only single connection with a Master.  Left anf right having slight out of sync, being audibly noticible?


----------



## vstolpner

SilverEars said:


> Anybody know what Qualcom SOC supports separate left and right wireless connections?  Sony XM3 got me interested in this, and a review states some phones do not support it.
> 
> Anybody tried any dual wireless connection TW?  Was the reliability of connection better and was it stable in busy environments?
> 
> ...



Qualcomm introduced the left/right split in Snapdragon 845, not sure about the lower end ones (believe only 800 series support it). And I think QCC3026 is supposed to support it but haven't seen reports to confirm that.

Keep in mind that Sony's chip is based on different tech, so it's not clear which chipsets will support that one (or at least I'm not aware).

As for latency between left and right for master/slave earbuds - they're perfectly synced together. Same goes for video/ audio for most Bluetooth 5.0 buds (maybe not perfectly, but close enough).


----------



## d3myz (Jul 9, 2019)

Anyone know where I can get a hold of a list of current earbuds using the newer qualcomm chipsets like these UNIs? I've looked at qualcomm's site and looked at the 5100 series, but I'm just looking to learn more about the chipsets and how they improve the quality of the product etc.


----------



## d3myz

SilverEars said:


> Anybody know what Qualcom SOC supports separate left and right wireless connections?  Sony XM3 got me interested in this, and a review states some phones do not support it.
> 
> Anybody tried any dual wireless connection TW?  Was the reliability of connection better and was it stable in busy environments?
> 
> ...


I think the technology is called true wireless stereo plus. https://www.qualcomm.com/products/bluetooth


----------



## actorlife

FYLegend said:


>


Looking real cool. The lights don't bother me they make it really look like a real UFO. Hardly saw the logo. Looking forward to your thoughts after a week or so.


----------



## david8613

2 small things to mention about the tranya t3. 1) is the shiny part of case getting sctrached up pretty bad vs the anbes 359 shiny parts of the case do not get scratched up. 2) the tranya t3 has very infrequent drop outs in certain situations but it is very rare and reconnects very quickly when it does happens, for example if I cover my ear piece with my hand this will happen, but it is not bad and recovers so quick. vs the anbes 359 I never noticed any drop outs at all, connection is solid


----------



## vstolpner

d3myz said:


> Anyone know where I can get a hold of a list of current earbuds using the newer qualcomm chipsets like these UNIs? I've looked at qualcomm's site and looked at the 5100 series, but I'm just looking to learn more about the chipsets and how they improve the quality of the product etc.



Search this thread, I believe @Slater posted the link about a week ago


----------



## tlau1125

clerkpalmer said:


> The verge properly blasting Sony for no sweatproofing:
> 
> https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.th...m3-wireless-earbuds-hands-on-preview-features



At this moment, the WF-1000X and WF-1000XM3 are the only true wireless earphones with noise cancellation.  I am not sure if the need for more/better mics (and the resulting openings) makes it more difficult to be sealed?


----------



## clerkpalmer

tlau1125 said:


> At this moment, the WF-1000X and WF-1000XM3 are the only true wireless earphones with noise cancellation.  I am not sure if the need for more/better mics (and the resulting openings) makes it more difficult to be sealed?



Sony's response was off putting and offensive.  Basically, no one complained before so presumably the inference is that other people used them in the gym without issue.  So instead of just backing their product, they are saying no official protection but hey, you'll probably be fine.  This would give Sony the right to deny warranty claims for water damage.

Of course, the real question is would Sony actually do that.  My SP700Ns crapped out and I was able to get an easy exchange from Sony.  In fact, their customer service was very good.  I think they even shipped the new pair first.  So what are the chances that a giant company like Sony would actually tear apart these tiny things and inspect them for moisture damage?  Probably unlikely.  But they should just back their product like Bose does. Say what you want about Bose, if they break, they send you a new one no questions asked.  I think there's (a) a decent chance these can handle some sweat and (b) even if they die on you from sweat, sony will warrant them.


----------



## assassin10000 (Jul 9, 2019)

RobinFood said:


> I would try it myself but I just bought and am waiting for a smabat s-10 to pair with a BT20S



I've used the ST-10 with both BT20/BT20S.

For me the BT20S is better, as I can't use AAC on my older phone. Maybe if I could I wouldn't have gone to the BT20S.


----------



## hifi80sman

Just ordered these bad boys.  Case looks similar to Mifo O5 and the specs look promising.  8mm Titanium Driver, AAC, 8 hour playtime, CVC 8.0.

We shall see though!  The MEBUYZ had good specs, but it sounds cheap.  It also has TONS of fake and shill reviews.


----------



## FYLegend

vstolpner said:


> I can hear crinkle sound if I fiddle with it. Never found it concerning though.... Should I?
> 
> Update
> Try different eartips. I mentioned in using mifo tips and it's way better than stock. Better deal is everything


Usually it's a sign of poor driver quality but doesn't mean it will break any time soon.

I like the larger tips and ATH tips but the bass imbalance is more obvious. It sounds almost like the left bud has been EQd too much. At lower volumes it's less noticeable but still there. Not so sure I can return it, who knows I might just get another Anbes, but I'm waiting for the Earfun Fre Oluv edition next week.


----------



## vstolpner

FYLegend said:


> Usually it's a sign of poor driver quality but doesn't mean it will break any time soon.
> 
> I like the larger tips and ATH tips but the bass imbalance is more obvious. It sounds almost like the left bud has been EQd too much. At lower volumes it's less noticeable but still there. Not so sure I can return it, who knows I might just get another Anbes, but I'm waiting for the Earfun Fre Oluv edition next week.



Latest issue with Anbes is they sometimes restart when I stop playing music and go into pairing mode - trekking my phone to connect to them sorted it out.
Weird part is it only happens when I stop playing music / watching YouTube, never happens in the middle of listening.


----------



## nc8000

vstolpner said:


> Latest issue with Anbes is they sometimes restart when I stop playing music and go into pairing mode - trekking my phone to connect to them sorted it out.
> Weird part is it only happens when I stop playing music / watching YouTube, never happens in the middle of listening.



Probably their way of sayin hey we are not being used, let’s go see if somebody else will play with us


----------



## actorlife

hifi80sman said:


> Just ordered these bad boys.  Case looks similar to Mifo O5 and the specs look promising.  8mm Titanium Driver, AAC, 8 hour playtime, CVC 8.0.
> 
> We shall see though!  The MEBUYZ had good specs, but it sounds cheap.  It also has TONS of fake and shill reviews.


Man you're pilling up. Again seems like amazon is mixing reviews. For 45 hopefully they are good.


----------



## hifi80sman

actorlife said:


> Man you're pilling up. Again seems like amazon is mixing reviews. For 45 hopefully they are good.


It's an addiction.  

I'm really hoping they are.  If they live up to their specs, for $45, it's a great deal.


----------



## Ocelitgol

assassin10000 said:


> I've used the ST-10 with both BT20/BT20S.
> 
> For me the BT20S is better, as I can't use AAC on my older phone. Maybe if I could I wouldn't have gone to the BT20S.


any audible hiss or colouration to the sound?


----------



## d3myz

Just got the Anbes 360. I really like the case and the design, they fit nicely and are a good size, but the sound is kind of meh. I compare them to the 359 and D42, they definitely have some almost shrill highs and the mid is nicely and boosted, but not as balanced as the 359. the bass is there and it's clean but it's not as full as either of the two other Anbes'. I'd use these for audio books, but probably not music, the 359's just sound sooo much better.


----------



## d3myz

Zune said:


> I've just pulled the pin and ordered some Tranya T3's. I've been following this thread for over a month and it was between the Tranya's and the Anbes 359 which i can't find on Amazon anymore so with the Tranya's getting mostly good reports i thought i'd give them a go. I'm off on holiday next week so wanted something without a cable to try lying on the beach. I'm really looking forward to trying them, they will be my first TWE's


I just ordered some myself. should be here tomorrow.


----------



## vstolpner

d3myz said:


> Just got the Anbes 360. I really like the case and the design, they fit nicely and are a good size, but the sound is kind of meh. I compare them to the 359 and D42, they definitely have some almost shrill highs and the mid is nicely and boosted, but not as balanced as the 359. the bass is there and it's clean but it's not as full as either of the two other Anbes'. I'd use these for audio books, but probably not music, the 359's just sound sooo much better.



How do the D42 compare to the 359?


----------



## d3myz (Jul 9, 2019)

vstolpner said:


> How do the D42 compare to the 359?


Here's my review of the D42's https://www.head-fi.org/posts/15050089/  I'm excited to compare the Tranya T3 to the D42. The D42 have a LOT of bass, but they are massive, they do sound pretty laid back and smooth though. I haven't broken them in really only used them for a day. If I had to sum it up i'd say the 359's just sound more exciting and higher quality, the volume is louder and they are just so damn balanced. the D42's buttons are much better though and the build quality and case is better on the D42's IMO they are worth owning if you like bass.


----------



## assassin10000

stormers said:


> any audible hiss or colouration to the sound?



No coloration as far as I can tell, close enough I couldn't tell wired vs bt20s with my phone/streaming.

Hiss I can't say anything about as I do stream via spotify and IIRC does have hiss there. I don't currently have any audio saved on my phone to test with. Got a sound free audio file or link to one that would be good to test with?


----------



## snip3r77

clerkpalmer said:


> The verge properly blasting Sony for no sweatproofing:
> 
> https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.th...m3-wireless-earbuds-hands-on-preview-features


Anyone use the 359 or t3 for running? Can it overcome the sweat.


----------



## snip3r77

assassin10000 said:


> I've used the ST-10 with both BT20/BT20S.
> 
> For me the BT20S is better, as I can't use AAC on my older phone. Maybe if I could I wouldn't have gone to the BT20S.


How do you charge these


----------



## clerkpalmer

snip3r77 said:


> How do you charge these


Is this the setup I want? St-10? Any us based sellers?


----------



## jant71 (Jul 9, 2019)

clerkpalmer said:


> The verge properly blasting Sony for no sweatproofing:
> 
> https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.th...m3-wireless-earbuds-hands-on-preview-features



... and apparently they do not have volume control either. They say that the NC is more effective but not on par like their headphones. Nobody should have expected that.

Think these are the commuter model so don't know why people expected sweatproof. 100% they are milking this for two models. There will be the SP1000 version for sports in the yellow and that will have sweatproofing but not NC since the commuters need the NC but not SP and the gym goers need SP but don't need NC. Of course Sony needs two models. This way they will have more opportunity for sales and $$$.


----------



## Slater

snip3r77 said:


> How do you charge these



They come with a usb micro splitter cable to charge both at the same time.

As an alternative, some people have converted them to magnetic charging cables, which is very convenient.


----------



## actorlife

d3myz said:


> Just got the Anbes 360. I really like the case and the design, they fit nicely and are a good size, but the sound is kind of meh. I compare them to the 359 and D42, they definitely have some almost shrill highs and the mid is nicely and boosted, but not as balanced as the 359. the bass is there and it's clean but it's not as full as either of the two other Anbes'. I'd use these for audio books, but probably not music, the 359's just sound sooo much better.


Thank you for letting us know we were very curious about the 360 and hoping it would better the 359. Like I've been saying it's gonna be hard to dethrone the 359 for the price and EQ. Glad you are enjoying them.


----------



## assassin10000 (Jul 9, 2019)

snip3r77 said:


> How do you charge these





Slater said:


> They come with a usb micro splitter cable to charge both at the same time.
> 
> As an alternative, some people have converted them to magnetic charging cables, which is very convenient.



^ this. There is a small cover on the bottom edge below the microphone/led hole to the micro usb charging ports.

I actually bought a shorter split micro usb cable and put the magnetic adapter on that cable. I still plug in the ear pieces.

Just means I can use the same cable for many devices, as I have micro usb and usb-c magnetic charging adapters.




clerkpalmer said:


> Is this the setup I want? St-10? Any us based sellers?


Could be, what setup & sound are you looking for?

No US sellers that I am aware of. Smabat ST-10 earbud is what it is, paired with the TRN BT20S.


----------



## clerkpalmer

jant71 said:


> ... and apparently they do not have volume control either. They say that the NC is more effective but not on par like their headphones. Nobody should have expected that.
> 
> Think these are the commuter model so don't know why people expected sweatproof. 100% they are milking this for two models. There will be the SP1000 version for sports in the yellow and that will have sweatproofing but not NC since the commuters need the NC but not SP and the gym goers need SP but don't need NC. Of course Sony needs two models. This way they will have more opportunity for sales and $$$.


I agree except for no nc at gym. Nc at the gym would be huge.


----------



## riodgarp

I'm still confused to charge my mifo o5, the manufacturer said it's better use an under 5 v charger, where can I find such a things?  even a computer usb port would be 5 v output, my friend said its fine to use smartphone's charger


----------



## chinmie

clerkpalmer said:


> I agree except for no nc at gym. Nc at the gym would be huge.



ANC usually works best for the steady low freq rumble, while it doesn't do very good to dynamic sound like music or people talking. i think passive noise blocking is better for that situation


----------



## chinmie

riodgarp said:


> I'm still confused to charge my mifo o5, the manufacturer said it's better use an under 5 v charger, where can I find such a things?  even a computer usb port would be 5 v output, my friend said its fine to use smartphone's charger



5 v is fine. just don't use large currents. 1mah or below would be ideal


----------



## vstolpner

chinmie said:


> 5 v is fine. just don't use large currents. 1mah or below would be ideal



You mean 1A, right? 
1mAh is a tiny tiny battery :-D

But yes, I second that any USB charger should be just fine. You can find one that's under 1A if you're really worried about it, but as a general rule, the device will only draw as much current as it needs.

Also, USB chargers will typically drop in voltage as they start providing current - most will go down to about 4.8-4.9V, which is completely normal.


----------



## SharkSkin

Ordered/funded the Pamu Slide and just got them in the other day. So far not feeling great about them. 

Sound is good. Its got a V-shaped sound. Sound a bit veiled, but nothing too bad. Highs can get a sharp though. Mids are just a bit recessed. Bass is controlled and punchy. 

Biggest issues so far have been driver flex and connectivity. I though I had gotten a defective pair because of slight crackling and popping on either extreme (lows and highs). I then realized that it was that the driver was flexing (more so on the left side than the right) so I adjusted the earphones a bit and its gone away. But its something to be conscious of. 

Connectivity is a bigger disappointment. While I'm home its actually just fine. But outside I find its below average, at least compared to the past bluetooth headphones I've had. Living in NYC means there's plenty of opportunities for signal interference to occur, but I find that the Slide have a more difficult time with cutouts than either the Soundcore Liberty Lite (which I got at the same price of $50) and the Sennheiser 4.50 (which are by best in so far as connectivity).

Not sure if these will hit retailers since its only been available through crowdfunding so far, but if they end up selling them for the MSRP they list on the campaign webpage then its hard to recommend these. At $50 for the non-wireless charging version its just an alright value.


----------



## nappoler

Just bought astrotec S80 which adaping Dupont 4um ultra soft Beryllium dynamic drivers. it delivers well extended high frequencies, clear, layered mids and rich, articulate bass


----------



## vstolpner

nappoler said:


> Just bought astrotec S80 which adaping Dupont 4um ultra soft Beryllium dynamic drivers. it delivers well extended high frequencies, clear, layered mids and rich, articulate bass



Oh interesting, I found their mids rather recessed, such that guitars and vocals took a back seat to other instruments.
See review link in my signature


----------



## DigDub (Jul 10, 2019)

actorlife said:


> David, I had no problems with the Funcl W1 from Indiegogo. It was like a two months wait. Which is not long, but it seems like a lifetime especially since they were getting good reviews on youtube. I love mine, except for the No volume control. Bright but not harsh and great bass and not boomy. I might bite if Funcl comes out with a vol control. I don't like those stick ones that they made those have vol control. I like the smaller buds and they were only $25 shipped.
> -
> DigDub, so are you liking them? Did you just get them? If they are anything like the Hoopshop(Graphene) with a 12hr battery I'm sold except I want the dark blue ones. Looking forward to your review after you spent more time with them.


The battery life of the Uni does seem to be able to go to 10-12 hours as specified, provided that I switch the master/slave buds connection during the listening session. If the master bud connection stays at a single bud, the battery life is about 8 hours before that bud goes flat. The master bud handles the connection to the phone, hence it uses more battery.

The LED does not light up once it is connected or playing music. It only lights up when touch is detected. Nice. The buds shut down after 5 mins if there are no music playing. They can be turned on and off manually too using the touch pads. The touch pad is a hit or miss affair, double taps require requires much practice.

The charging case is quite big. Other than charging the buds, it can also serve as a power bank to charge other devices through its built-in usb-A port. There are 2 ways of charging the case, through a micro USB port, or wireless charging. I tried charging the case using the Powershare feature on my Samsung S10 phone and it works well.

As for the sound, it sounds quite neutral leaning towards bright, not exactly a detail king or bass monster. It sounds clear, with a soundstage that is around the head and doesn't extend very far out. The shape of the buds are bean shaped like the qcy t1c, instead of the sculpted shape that mtw or creative outlier are. So they tend to stick out a bit more. The diaphragm crinkles when the buds are pushed against the ear, but normal listening is fine.

Comfort is excellent, I do not feel any hotspot in my ears even after hours of wearing. The fin on the buds are too small to do anything, so don't expect it to hold the buds in your ears. I have tried doing housework and the buds stayed sealed in my ears, so fit is good for my ears.

Microphone quality is average, not much different from other buds that has this design. The master bud has the active mic, so if the other party cannot hear you in a noisy environment, you can take the master bud and hold it close to your mouth to speak for better clarity.


----------



## chinmie

vstolpner said:


> You mean 1A, right?
> 1mAh is a tiny tiny battery :-D
> 
> But yes, I second that any USB charger should be just fine. You can find one that's under 1A if you're really worried about it, but as a general rule, the device will only draw as much current as it needs.
> ...



no, i meant that. i lile charging my tws for 8 hours, for the best battery longevity 

thanks for the correction


----------



## FYLegend (Jul 10, 2019)

nc8000 said:


> I bet Anbes is also just a rebrand of some unknown oem manufacturer


Yes, but I am still surprised a store that calls themselves "Anbes" is selling rebrands rather than the original. It seems unassuring and there's no warranty information Anbes(not that it would really help) - just came with eartips and a Chinese manual.  just happens to be the most widespread one. Also branded as Kissral R18, Yineme/ST-BE30.

You can see some of the OEM listings here from companies like Ancrew, Voxfun and AS. The specifications are sometimes listed differently such as 40 vs 45 mAh battery.
https://www.alibaba.com/trade/search?fsb=y&IndexArea=product_en&CatId=&SearchText=TWS+UFO&viewtype=

I think the biggest flaw with 359/UFO design is no air vents. Although some manufacturers can get away with this, it increases the chance of driver flex and pressure.


----------



## nappoler

vstolpner said:


> Oh interesting, I found their mids rather recessed, such that guitars and vocals took a back seat to other instruments.
> See review link in my signature


Thanks a lot for your review, I am the entry level audiophile, so I think atrotec s80 is good for me


----------



## vstolpner

nappoler said:


> Thanks a lot for your review, I am the entry level audiophile, so I think atrotec s80 is good for me



Compare them to the Anbes 359 (if you can find them) and the Tranya T3, Tiso i4, etc. There are a lot of fantastic options for less than the S80. 

But regardless of what you listen to, welcome to the group! It's always great to have more people interested in this and to share opinions with!


----------



## Caipirina

Speaking of ‘piling up’ , today the cheapo XG-12 arrived. Someone here recommended them. And they are indeed pretty nice, ESPECIALLY considering that I only paid 10$ after coupon. And they work and are a smidge above average in the sound department. Actually pretty good. But here is a tricky thing: no way to tell which is L/R, there are no markings on the buds. There are markings inside the case though, which makes me wonder if the l r channels are assigned depending from where you take it out? Has anyone who has them been able to decipher that part in the manual?


----------



## Zune

d3myz said:


> I just ordered some myself. should be here tomorrow.



Mine have just arrived. I'm shocked by how small the charging case is. It's a very neat looking bit of kit. Getting them up and running was ridiculously easy. They paired with my HiBy R6 in what seemed like a second. I like the sound of them immediately. I'm a bit of a bass head so the sound signature suits my needs. I'll have to change the way i carry my DAP though. I usually carry it on my left and have done for 15 years but the Tranyas disconnect if i do. The connection seems stable when i switched my HiBy to the right pocket though.


----------



## bubsdaddy

snip3r77 said:


> Anyone use the 359 or t3 for running? Can it overcome the sweat.



I have used mine for running a few times - maybe 5 or 6. I run outside in the Texas heat and I normally use my Bose Soundsport wireless or Soundsport Free when running but, if it is a windy day, I go to the Anbes. My wife uses her 359s everyday and she runs inside on a treadmill. So far, they are holding up well.


----------



## Dcell7 (Jul 10, 2019)

Bartig said:


> The T-Elf is absolutely horrible. So I bought these too.



Got them (Bluedio Hi) just a few moments ago and it is not positive. Probably because i use an iPad and these don’t have AAC. Very compressed and congested sound. They probably are SBC only or they are just horrible 

I will use them to watch some videos on my iPad. It is totally not made for music. The material of the charging case is cheap and the earphones themselves are big.

It does use USB Type-C though


----------



## Mouseman

Dcell7 said:


> Got them (Bluedio Hi) just a few moments ago and it is not positive. Probably because i use an iPad and these don’t have AAC. Very compressed and congested sound. They probably are SBC only or they are just horrible
> 
> I will use them to watch some videos on my iPad  it is totally not made for music. The material of the charging case is cheap and the earphones themselves are big.


I'm glad to know that Bluedio is continuing their tradition of excellence. 
Sorry about the negative experience.


----------



## Dcell7

Mouseman said:


> I'm glad to know that Bluedio is continuing their tradition of excellence.
> Sorry about the negative experience.



It is just a few bucks so no problem. It is still useable for some video watching, although i haven’t really tried how much the lag is. 

Or i can give it away to someone who doesn’t give a d*mn about sound quality. It can serve it purpose as bluetooth calling headset i guess.


----------



## Slater

Mouseman said:


> I'm glad to know that Bluedio is continuing their tradition of excellence.
> Sorry about the negative experience.



Yeah, I almost got sucked into the recent deal on the Hi. Then I stopped myself like ‘_ummm, nope don’t do it, it’s Bluedio_’. I’m glad I stopped myself.


----------



## actorlife

Dcell7 said:


> It is just a few bucks so no problem. It is still useable for some video watching, although i haven’t really tried how much the lag is.
> 
> Or i can give it away to someone who doesn’t give a d*mn about sound quality. It can serve it purpose as bluetooth calling headset i guess.


Why not return them? I'm guessing you bought on Ali and not Amazon? Did you try other tips?


----------



## Dcell7

actorlife said:


> Why not return them? I'm guessing you bought on Ali and not Amazon? Did you try other tips?



I got them from Ali. Return shipping costs would be more than the product itself. I will probably donate them to my mom.

I did not try other tips as the nozzle is not round but a large oval shape. I mean really large. I don’t think i have any tips that would fit the nozzle.


----------



## srinivasvignesh

Can someone comment on the isolation and call quality aspects of Tranya T3?


----------



## vstolpner

Dcell7 said:


> I got them from Ali. Return shipping costs would be more than the product itself. I will probably donate them to my mom.
> 
> I did not try other tips as the nozzle is not round but a large oval shape. I mean really large. I don’t think i have any tips that would fit the nozzle.



I use regular round tips on my Anbes that come with an oval nozzle. Silicone stretches and forms really well, so I wouldn't worry about trying round tips on oval nozzles.


----------



## actorlife

Dcell7 said:


> I got them from Ali. Return shipping costs would be more than the product itself. I will probably donate them to my mom.
> 
> I did not try other tips as the nozzle is not round but a large oval shape. I mean really large. I don’t think i have any tips that would fit the nozzle.


That is the same story with my Syllable S101. The ebay seller said don't bother sending them back and gave me back a partial refund. Which was a nice gesture.


----------



## nxnje

https://yourstingyfriend.altervista.org/?p=612

My personal advice for TWS on a budget. 
Just some thoughts


----------



## vstolpner

nxnje said:


> https://yourstingyfriend.altervista.org/?p=612
> 
> My personal advice for TWS on a budget.
> Just some thoughts



Are those just a QCY rebrand, like the SoundPeats?


----------



## d3myz

I just got the Tranya T3's and Wow. They live up to the hype. Definitely have a little more crisp/sharp highs and recessed mids vs. 359's, Sound stage is excellent, not as wide as the 359's, but really nice. Bass is excellent. not boomy and muddy like the D42. Honestly I still prefer the QCY T1C. To me they have the cleanest most detailed sound, but the Volume and low end really lack. If the Tranya bumped up the mids and rolled off the highs just a touch, they would be my perfect headphone. I'm sure I could EQ them, but I'm using an XS Max and I don't think it has an EQ. They are def. a keeper for me.


----------



## hifi80sman

d3myz said:


> I just got the Tranya T3's and Wow. They live up to the hype. Definitely have a little more crisp/sharp highs and recessed mids vs. 359's, Sound stage is excellent, not as wide as the 359's, but really nice. Bass is excellent. not boomy and muddy like the D42. Honestly I still prefer the QCY T1C. To me they have the cleanest most detailed sound, but the Volume and low end really lack. If the Tranya bumped up the mids and rolled off the highs just a touch, they would be my perfect headphone. I'm sure I could EQ them, but I'm using an XS Max and I don't think it has an EQ. They are def. a keeper for me.


If you use Spotify, the EQ within the App is pretty good.  It's one of the few that does not lower the volume while adjusting the various frequencies.


----------



## nxnje

vstolpner said:


> Are those just a QCY rebrand, like the SoundPeats?



I think they are, Dudios customer service id under Soundpeats.


----------



## Bartig

Dcell7 said:


> Got them (Bluedio Hi) just a few moments ago and it is not positive. Probably because i use an iPad and these don’t have AAC. Very compressed and congested sound. They probably are SBC only or they are just horrible
> 
> I will use them to watch some videos on my iPad. It is totally not made for music. The material of the charging case is cheap and the earphones themselves are big.
> 
> It does use USB Type-C though


I'll receive the Bluedio Hi in the next few days I think.... Thanks for adjusting my expectations haha. 

On a somehow related side note, I'm so proud! My wireless earphones review site is finally live!


----------



## d3myz

Ok, so What's next? What other TWS's in the $50 and below range sound as good as the 359's?


----------



## hifi80sman

OK, so here we go.

TCTECO ZR900S:

CASE - Absolutely fantastic. When looking at the listing, I assumed it would be similar to the Mifo O5 case, when in fact, it's a GREAT approximation of the MW07 case.  All metal, smooth finish, etc.  Micro USB and the hinge is not as good as the MW07 case, but it's shockingly close to the MW07 case and feels flat out premium to the max, dude.

SOUND - Absolutely...horrible.  Muddy as Dollar Tree earbuds...and that's not an exaggeration.  They sound that bad.  On top of that, the channel imbalance (amplitude) was possibly the worst I've ever heard.

These are a major, major, major, NAH DAWG.

MPOW T5:

CASE - Very nice.  A good approximation of the B&O E8 case (Micro USB).  Premium feel and finish.

CONNECTION - Early reports note there were frequent drop outs.  It seems the product was pulled and re-released (that's my assumption, since I couldn't find them for sale on Amazon for months) to correct the connection issues, because I have zero drop outs...zero.  Went to the gym, to Target, then to my local grocery store, and all was well.  No drop outs.  Nothing.  Nada.  iPhone Xs Max and Galaxy s8.  Of course, YMMV depending on your device and environment (I'm in a large city, so there's plenty of wireless action going on).

EARBUDS - Supports both aptX and AAC.  Sound is excellent.  It's very balanced (but not flat), fun, and has an unusually good soundstage that's not only fairly wide, but also extends out in "front".  Very impressive.

CALLS - Advertises cVc 8.0 and it actually delivers.  I made some calls in the car and people told me I sounded great and they didn't even know I was in the car.  Used for business calls with zero complaints.

These are a BIG WIN.  Highly recommended.  $45 seems too cheap for these!


----------



## actorlife (Jul 10, 2019)

d3myz said:


> Ok, so What's next? What other TWS's in the $50 and below range sound as good as the 359's?


None. If you look at my overview in my sig(Top 4) those come close, except for not having a wide soundstage like the 359. I'm on a tight budget, so I'm not getting any type of headsets till perhaps Sept-Oct and maybe later.  Man for every 359 I sold on here I'd be a thousandnaire.  It's funny someone came on this thread accusing me of working for them. Eye rolls.


----------



## JimmyR (Jul 10, 2019)

srinivasvignesh said:


> Can someone comment on the isolation and call quality aspects of Tranya T3?



I’ve just put my hands (and ears) on them since they hit today my inbox.
First impression about mic quality (I’m quite picky with that since I’m looking to use TWS also to make business calls) is good. I made a test call to my girlfriend and been speaking with her for neraly 15 minutes. She said I sounded good, no problems to understand what I was saying.
I also have left a voicemail to myself and sounded ok as well. Both tests I did them on a quiet place. Need to test how well they pick up my voice with some background noise (I don’t expect them to be very good at cancelling it, truth be told),but so far I’d say they’re functional and get the job done. 

Definitely, MUCH better mic than the Sabbat E12 (the other TWS) I owned.

Isolation is also pretty good in my opinion.

For the SQ part, I need to test them more and and go through some burn in. First impression is that they may have a bit less volume than the E12, but, gosh, those are a difficult enemy to beat in my opinion.

Let’s see how they unfold, but I’m happy so far


----------



## Bartig

So happy everyone here seems to really like the Tranya T3 here. Felt I was shouting in the desert for a while, with so many YouTubers mainly praising the Mifo O5 and Sabbat E12.


----------



## JimmyR

hifi80sman said:


> OK, so here we go.
> 
> TCTECO ZR900S:
> 
> ...



Thanks for the reviews,buddy. According to it, Those MPOW seem also a solid option for an under 50 budget.


----------



## FYLegend (Jul 10, 2019)

So is Anbes 359 supposed to have a thick-sounding subbass or is it supposed to be a tad rolled off? I recall reading one of the OEMs saying the sound is achieved mostly through Realtek EQ rather than the driver, so it seems like imbalance could be a screw-up of this setting. Sometimes fiddling the seal or wearing wide-bore tips (which also compromise the seal) will "kill" the bass a bit and balance it out slightly, but overall the imbalance is more noticeable than even the Jabra 65t... The right bud still has a lot of clarity and volume, it's just missing a chunk of bass.

Another difference is that on Coolhere UFO you hold the left or right buttons to change volume rather than double tap (which instead skips the track. I find this less convenient than if it was double-tap. It could have been a revision by the OEM, but still gives me further doubt about the legitimacy.

Long story short, don't purchase from anything other than "official" stores. What threw me off was that Anbes Official's listing is "ANBES Mini Bluetooth Earphones TWS Stereo Wireless Sports Headphones Noise Cancelling LED UFO Design Headset with Charging Box" so it doesn't show up when you search "Anbes 359". Doesn't look like Anbes Official does epacket so I'm not sure how long that would take. Sometimes "Direct" stores are managed by the same person (eg. Wavefun Direct and Official, the same person replied to my inquiries), but I wouldn't risk that either.


----------



## d3myz (Jul 10, 2019)

actorlife said:


> None. If you look at my overview in my sig(Top 4) those come close, except for not having a wide soundstage like the 359. I'm on a tight budget, so I'm not getting any type of headsets till perhaps Sept-Oct and maybe later.  Man for every 359 I sold on here I'd be a thousandnaire.  It's funny someone came on this thread accusing me of working for them. Eye rolls.


That's hilarious. I didnt' really realize the prize I had until I compared them to so many others. I still really like my T1C too, they sound soo clean, but they need way more volume and some low end.


----------



## d3myz

FYLegend said:


> So is Anbes 359 supposed to have a thick-sounding subbass or is it supposed to be a tad rolled off? I recall reading one of the OEMs saying the sound is achieved mostly through Realtek EQ rather than the driver, so it seems like imbalance could be a screw-up of this setting. Sometimes fiddling the seal or wearing wide-bore tips (which also compromise the seal) will "kill" the bass a bit and balance it out slightly, but overall the imbalance is more noticeable than even the Jabra 65t... The right bud still has a lot of clarity and volume, it's just missing a chunk of bass.
> 
> Another difference is that on Coolhere UFO you hold the left or right buttons to change volume rather than double tap (which instead skips the track. I find this less convenient than if it was double-tap. It could have been a revision by the OEM, but still gives me further doubt about the legitimacy.
> 
> Long story short, don't purchase from anything other than "official" stores. What threw me off was that Anbes Official's listing is "ANBES Mini Bluetooth Earphones TWS Stereo Wireless Sports Headphones Noise Cancelling LED UFO Design Headset with Charging Box" so it doesn't show up when you search "Anbes 359". Doesn't look like Anbes Official does epacket so I'm not sure how long that would take. Sometimes "Direct" stores are managed by the same person (eg. Wavefun Direct and Official, the same person replied to my inquiries), but I wouldn't risk that either.


 
Have you looked here on AliExpress?https://www.aliexpress.com/wholesale?catId=0&initiative_id=SB_20190710121131&SearchText=anbes+359


----------



## d3myz

hifi80sman said:


> OK, so here we go.
> 
> TCTECO ZR900S:
> 
> ...


Does the T5 have Volume Control?


----------



## hifi80sman

d3myz said:


> Does the T5 have Volume Control?


Yes.  Double click L bud decreases, double click R bud increases volume.


----------



## hifi80sman

Like degenerate, I also ordered the FHA TrueConnect (Same Day shipping, should be here tonight).  I had a $50 Amazon promo credit from a shipping error and a $35 prime card reward balance, so only out of pocket $84.  I briefly tested them out at a shop in the airport, liked the bass, but didn't give it enough time for a wider range of music.  I know this one had connection complaints as well, so we'll see how they hold up.


----------



## JimmyR

hifi80sman said:


> Like degenerate, I also ordered the FHA TrueConnect (Same Day shipping, should be here tonight).  I had a $50 Amazon promo credit from a shipping error and a $35 prime card reward balance, so only out of pocket $84.  I briefly tested them out at a shop in the airport, liked the bass, but didn't give it enough time for a wider range of music.  I know this one had connection complaints as well, so we'll see how they hold up.



That’s funny. Those were the ones i was about to pick before discovering this forum around in my quest...Then I read you guys and understand that other world exist outside the mainstream brands and paid review sites. Now, for just a bit more than half the price tag of the RHA I’ve got a couple of pretty decent TWSs with I have a lot of fun enjoying how they sound..
However, I respect RHA and their products so looking forward to your taking on them 

The bad news is that this forum is kinda of addicting and may affect my pocket


----------



## clerkpalmer

hifi80sman said:


> Like degenerate, I also ordered the FHA TrueConnect (Same Day shipping, should be here tonight).  I had a $50 Amazon promo credit from a shipping error and a $35 prime card reward balance, so only out of pocket $84.  I briefly tested them out at a shop in the airport, liked the bass, but didn't give it enough time for a wider range of music.  I know this one had connection complaints as well, so we'll see how they hold up.



You won't be disappointed.  They are excellent sounding TW buds.  Very very close to the big boys (i.e. MW07, MTW and Bose).  I really liked mine and had no connection issues.  Biggest issue for me was the fit is a little fussy.  No wings or stabilizers and I couldn't get my right ear to stay put so off they went!


----------



## hifi80sman

JimmyR said:


> That’s funny. Those were the ones i was about to pick before discovering this forum around in my quest...Then I read you guys and understand that other world exist outside the mainstream brands and paid review sites. Now, for just a bit more than half the price tag of the RHA I’ve got a couple of pretty decent TWSs with I have a lot of fun enjoying how they sound..
> However, I respect RHA and their products so looking forward to your taking on them
> 
> The bad news is that this forum is kinda of addicting and may affect my pocket


HAHA!  Yes, for sure.  Probably could have had a nice sold bar of gold the size of a baby's leg, but alas, this is my prison.


----------



## Musok

I’ve been reading this topic for awhile. So awesome to see advancements on these matters.

Around 50€-100€ (closer to 50) what do you recommend? I like the sound of my open AKG (open designs have such a natural sound), I don’t care that much for isolation I would even rather have some environment awareness. Need mic but ok quality will be fine.


----------



## d3myz

hifi80sman said:


> Yes.  Double click L bud decreases, double click R bud increases volume.


Awesome. Seems like I may have found my next purchase. Any Idea how they compare to the Anbes 359, Funcl F1 and the Alterola IE600?


----------



## Bartig

FYLegend said:


> So is Anbes 359 supposed to have a thick-sounding subbass or is it supposed to be a tad rolled off? I recall reading one of the OEMs saying the sound is achieved mostly through Realtek EQ rather than the driver, so it seems like imbalance could be a screw-up of this setting. Sometimes fiddling the seal or wearing wide-bore tips (which also compromise the seal) will "kill" the bass a bit and balance it out slightly, but overall the imbalance is more noticeable than even the Jabra 65t... The right bud still has a lot of clarity and volume, it's just missing a chunk of bass.
> 
> Another difference is that on Coolhere UFO you hold the left or right buttons to change volume rather than double tap (which instead skips the track. I find this less convenient than if it was double-tap. It could have been a revision by the OEM, but still gives me further doubt about the legitimacy.
> 
> Long story short, don't purchase from anything other than "official" stores. What threw me off was that Anbes Official's listing is "ANBES Mini Bluetooth Earphones TWS Stereo Wireless Sports Headphones Noise Cancelling LED UFO Design Headset with Charging Box" so it doesn't show up when you search "Anbes 359". Doesn't look like Anbes Official does epacket so I'm not sure how long that would take. Sometimes "Direct" stores are managed by the same person (eg. Wavefun Direct and Official, the same person replied to my inquiries), but I wouldn't risk that either.


Have you searched what Anbes is selling on Ali? They basically put their name on ANY generic crap out there - I think their ufo earphones were just a lucky shot actually.


----------



## JimmyR (Jul 10, 2019)

Bartig said:


> Have you searched what Anbes is selling on Ali? They basically put their name on ANY generic crap out there - I think their ufo earphones were just a lucky shot actually.



Cannot agree more. They don’t seem to have any logical strategy or evolution in their  TW models. Proof of that is that the 360 does not get better than the lauded 359 looking at the comments here and there.

This,however, makes the 359 kind of an oddity in itself and coveted piece for avid collectors. Unrepeatable for Anbes, perhaps


----------



## hifi80sman (Jul 10, 2019)

d3myz said:


> Awesome. Seems like I may have found my next purchase. Any Idea how they compare to the Anbes 359, Funcl F1 and the Alterola IE600?


I also have the Anbes 359, which I got for $30.  The MPOW T5 are $15 more, but I feel they are justifiably worth the increased cost.

The sound is a more balanced with less bass exaggeration, but still retains the "fun" characteristic.  Mids & vocals are better on the T5 and has overall better detail retrieval (via AAC & aptX).  Another poster a few months back also remarked on the superior implementation of AAC in the T5 (Qualcomm Chipset).  https://www.head-fi.org/threads/goi...re-we-there-yet.861024/page-313#post-14747172


----------



## asak

That MPOW T5 looks like the same OEM as the Lypertek TEVI. And thanks for the quick impressions!


----------



## d3myz

Check out the Anbes D42 re-branded by Mpow as the T3. https://www.amazon.com/Mpow-T3-Wate...words=mpow+t5&qid=1562799158&s=gateway&sr=8-3


----------



## d3myz

Just pulled the trigger on the MPOW T5, should be here tomorrow. Man, I'm excited to test AptX and take them in the shower.


----------



## snip3r77

d3myz said:


> I just got the Tranya T3's and Wow. They live up to the hype. Definitely have a little more crisp/sharp highs and recessed mids vs. 359's, Sound stage is excellent, not as wide as the 359's, but really nice. Bass is excellent. not boomy and muddy like the D42. Honestly I still prefer the QCY T1C. To me they have the cleanest most detailed sound, but the Volume and low end really lack. If the Tranya bumped up the mids and rolled off the highs just a touch, they would be my perfect headphone. I'm sure I could EQ them, but I'm using an XS Max and I don't think it has an EQ. They are def. a keeper for me.


How’s the mic between them?
359 is fun v shape but t3 is more fun right?
I prefer more balanced fun


----------



## FunctionalDoc

d3myz said:


> Just pulled the trigger on the MPOW T5, should be here tomorrow. Man, I'm excited to test AptX and take them in the shower.


Where did get that quick ? I don't see them on Amazon .


----------



## FunctionalDoc

d3myz said:


> Just pulled the trigger on the MPOW T5, should be here tomorrow. Man, I'm excited to test AptX and take them in the shower.



Is this the T5 on Amazon since i can't find in the description ?
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07SR1FTD...m/images/I/71qtg4lwWtL.jpg&sb-ci-a=B07SR1FTD4


----------



## FunctionalDoc (Jul 10, 2019)

Tranya T3  or MPOW T5 which has best connectivity , range and sound quality on Android ?

Decent phone calls would be nice . 
Ease of use on Controls.


----------



## chinmie

asak said:


> That MPOW T5 looks like the same OEM as the Lypertek TEVI. And thanks for the quick impressions!



you're right, i think they are the same. if i have to choose I'd go with the MPow. much more recognized brand


----------



## chinmie

hifi80sman said:


> I also have the Anbes 359, which I got for $30.  The MPOW T5 are $15 more, but I feel they are justifiably worth the increased cost.
> 
> The sound is a more balanced with less bass exaggeration, but still retains the "fun" characteristic.  Mids & vocals are better on the T5 and has overall better detail retrieval (via AAC & aptX).  Another poster a few months back also remarked on the superior implementation of AAC in the T5 (Qualcomm Chipset).  https://www.head-fi.org/threads/goi...re-we-there-yet.861024/page-313#post-14747172



i forgot, but do you also have the T1C or the Mifo o5 standard? how's the MPow compares in sound and functionality? i see now that it's safe to purchase them as they have corrected that connection issues that i read in the reviews. also can you compare the earpiece size to your other buds? does it sticks out too much?


----------



## FYLegend (Jul 10, 2019)

d3myz said:


> Have you looked here on AliExpress?https://www.aliexpress.com/wholesale?catId=0&initiative_id=SB_20190710121131&SearchText=anbes+359


That's what I entered in and only see 3 results. Anbes Audiocart and two other third-party sellers. Anbes 359 from Anbes Official only shows up if I search Anbes UFO.


Bartig said:


> Have you searched what Anbes is selling on Ali? They basically put their name on ANY generic crap out there - I think their ufo earphones were just a lucky shot actually.


I agree, but problem isn't Anbes itself, but whether other sellers are getting rebrands/knockoffs instead. It just happens that Anbes was the one hyped on this site while on YouTube the Kissral R18 and Anbes D42 have had more attention. Several different OEMs are listed on Alibaba with the same UFO design and different specifications, so it's very possible the Coolhere came from another factory and thus suffers from defects that the Anbes isn't as susceptible to and vice versa. I haven't seen anyone else complain about bass imbalance on Anbes 359/Kissral R18.

I might just file a dispute but I'll see how they perform the next few days as I await the Earfun Free as well.



chinmie said:


> you're right, i think they are the same. if i have to choose I'd go with the MPow. much more recognized brand


Lypertek's case has a Type C port, MPOW has microUSB, whether or not you may find that important. The housings also seem slightly different but it could just be the faceplate.


----------



## vstolpner

At the price of the Mpow T5, wouldn't you be better off spending an extra $10 and getting the 1more Stylish? They're regularly around $60-$65 USD on AE


----------



## chinmie

vstolpner said:


> At the price of the Mpow T5, wouldn't you be better off spending an extra $10 and getting the 1more Stylish? They're regularly around $60-$65 USD on AE



thr Mpow offers ipx7 and volume control though, also looks sleeker. i don't know how the sound compares


----------



## riodgarp

I wonder again why using regular eartips with O5 make my ears feels like swimming or something similiar to Cowon EH2 (vacuum sealed) cause its shape blocked my ears?


----------



## srinivasvignesh

JimmyR said:


> I’ve just put my hands (and ears) on them since they hit today my inbox.
> First impression about mic quality (I’m quite picky with that since I’m looking to use TWS also to make business calls) is good. I made a test call to my girlfriend and been speaking with her for neraly 15 minutes. She said I sounded good, no problems to understand what I was saying.
> I also have left a voicemail to myself and sounded ok as well. Both tests I did them on a quiet place. Need to test how well they pick up my voice with some background noise (I don’t expect them to be very good at cancelling it, truth be told),but so far I’d say they’re functional and get the job done.
> 
> ...



Thanks very much for the detailed reply. I was disappointed with the mic of the E12. The X12 Pro mic is pretty decent, even in a noisy environment. I look forward to your inputs in a noisy environment.  Thanks in advance.


----------



## vstolpner

Hi guys,
I'd like to compile a list of TWE's and give the ability for ranking based on "crowdsourced" feedback/rating/popularity (gotta get that buzzword in there :-D)
Do you mind to provide your input into your favorite 3-5 pairs based on the below criteria? Feel free to PM me if you don't want to clutter up this thread. 

TWE brand and model: 
Rating out of 5 (high) + couple words if necessary
Build quality: 
Connection: 
Sound quality overall:
Highs: 
Mids: 
Lows:
Soundstage: 
Mic/call quality: 

If you can include "do not buy" models too would be great so we can easily ignore certain items, such as pretty much anything by Bluedio for example.


----------



## d3myz

FunctionalDoc said:


> Is this the T5 on Amazon since i can't find in the description ?
> https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07SR1FTD4?aaxitk=nRR5C4mSPPHhcrkklhSs2w&pd_rd_i=B07SR1FTD4&pf_rd_p=9420597b-7dad-4cbd-a28d-7d676ac67378&hsa_cr_id=4933996610201&sb-ci-n=asinImage&sb-ci-v=https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/71qtg4lwWtL.jpg&sb-ci-a=B07SR1FTD4


Yes, that's it.


----------



## d3myz (Jul 11, 2019)

snip3r77 said:


> How’s the mic between them?
> 359 is fun v shape but t3 is more fun right?
> I prefer more balanced fun


I'm not sure what you mean by fun. To me the 359 is really exciting, the T3 is more laid back in the mids and has quite a bit more bass and the treble is a touch thinner, but I prefer listening to music on the 359's, the soundstage is just huge. The T3 is great, different and it's fun for Bass driven music. As for the Mic, i'm not sure i've been using the T3 all day and haven't had any complaints, I don't think the mic on the 359's is anything special, but I don't really know.


----------



## Soreniglio (Jul 11, 2019)

FYLegend said:


> So is Anbes 359 supposed to have a thick-sounding subbass or is it supposed to be a tad rolled off? I recall reading one of the OEMs saying the sound is achieved mostly through Realtek EQ rather than the driver, so it seems like imbalance could be a screw-up of this setting. Sometimes fiddling the seal or wearing wide-bore tips (which also compromise the seal) will "kill" the bass a bit and balance it out slightly, but overall the imbalance is more noticeable than even the Jabra 65t... The right bud still has a lot of clarity and volume, it's just missing a chunk of bass.
> 
> Another difference is that on Coolhere UFO you hold the left or right buttons to change volume rather than double tap (which instead skips the track. I find this less convenient than if it was double-tap. It could have been a revision by the OEM, but still gives me further doubt about the legitimacy.
> 
> Long story short, don't purchase from anything other than "official" stores. What threw me off was that Anbes Official's listing is "ANBES Mini Bluetooth Earphones TWS Stereo Wireless Sports Headphones Noise Cancelling LED UFO Design Headset with Charging Box" so it doesn't show up when you search "Anbes 359". Doesn't look like Anbes Official does epacket so I'm not sure how long that would take. Sometimes "Direct" stores are managed by the same person (eg. Wavefun Direct and Official, the same person replied to my inquiries), but I wouldn't risk that either.



You bought from Anbes Audiocart, correct?

I feel sorry for both you and me, because I will probably receive the same rebrand stuff too, I'll open a controversy as soon as I receive them, probably.

Ps. I sent a message to their store, asking whether the pair I will receive will be a rebrand or not, this is annoying as bees, they could specify that, when I buy a product I ask for what I paid money for, jeez.


----------



## mjb152

i misplaced my Anbes 359 for a couple of days and went back to QCY T1C.  Whilst they're good,  the Anbes sound better, fit more comforably and are lighter.   I was mighty pleased  to find the Anbes last night.   I'm going to order another pair.
Now I'm wondering with Prime day fast approaching in the UK, whether splashing a lot more on Galaxy sound buds, TWS etc will really get me a much better sound for the money ?


----------



## BigZ12

asak said:


> That MPOW T5 looks like the same OEM as the Lypertek TEVI. And thanks for the quick impressions!


I don't think it's the same.
The Tevis got AptX and 10 hours battery life. The Mifo is "just" AAC and 6 hours?
(check specs here: https://www.lypertek.com/product-page/lypertek-tevi-truly-wireless-earphones)


----------



## Musok

BigZ12 said:


> I don't think it's the same.
> The Tevis got AptX and 10 hours battery life. The Mifo is "just" AAC and 6 hours?
> (check specs here: https://www.lypertek.com/product-page/lypertek-tevi-truly-wireless-earphones)



Anyone tried these tevi? Trying to find some good headphones for myself and 359 seem to be a shot in the dark with the rebranding and so on


----------



## FYLegend (Jul 11, 2019)

Soreniglio said:


> You bought from Anbes Audiocart, correct?
> 
> I feel sorry for both you and me, because I will probably receive the same rebrand stuff too, I'll open a controversy as soon as I receive them, probably.
> 
> Ps. I sent a message to their store, asking whether the pair I will receive will be a rebrand or not, this is annoying as bees, they could specify that, when I buy a product I ask for what I paid money for, jeez.



Yes it was Anbes Audiocart. If you do receive it, there's still a chance you won't get the imbalance defect. It only took about 2 weeks to ship to Canada, despite the seller telling me "it might take 30-60 days".

The box it came in simply said "True Wireless Earbuds with a "Dream Sport" logo. There was some slight wear and tear around the box. The back of the box is largely blank with some certification signs, "made in china" and "MODEL: BE30". Inside, it contains the earbuds/case, additional large and small eartips (which seem like a different design from the medium ones fitted on the earphones), and a Coolhere UFO manual. The only thing indicating Anbes 359 was on a barcode sticker on the shrinkwrap. Oddly, the Coolhere UFO, at least from late 2018 doesn't have this box either.


----------



## vstolpner (Jul 11, 2019)

FYLegend said:


> Yes it was Anbes Audiocart. If you do receive it, there's still a chance you won't get the imbalance defect. It only took about 2 weeks to ship to Canada, despite the seller telling me "it might take 30-60 days".
> 
> The box it came in simply said "True Wireless Earbuds with a "Dream Sport" logo. There was some slight wear and tear around the box. The back of the box is largely blank with some certification signs, "made in china" and "MODEL: BE30". Inside, it contains the earbuds/case, additional large and small eartips (which seem like a different design from the medium ones fitted on the earphones), and a Coolhere UFO manual. The only thing indicating Anbes 359 was on a barcode sticker on the shrinkwrap. Oddly, the Coolhere UFO, at least from late 2018 doesn't have this box either.



The Andes 359 that I received came in a completely different box. I don't have nine anymore, but it looked like the one in this photo. Did yours come with that bag too?











Wonder if we need to start using the boxes as part of the identifiers for good quality IEMs.


----------



## ri0t

Can anyone recommend a decent wirless IEM to use in the gym with a slight emphasis on bass? Also relatively easy to get in Australia

I'm looking at the sabbat e12 atm. A bit hard to get though here. As are the mifo O5


----------



## Dcell7

Shanling is releasing a TWS


----------



## david8613 (Jul 11, 2019)

do the t5 have aptx? can somone compare the mpow t5 with the anbes 359 and the tranya t3, this looks like my next purchase.


----------



## vstolpner

Dcell7 said:


> Shanling is releasing a TWS



Oh interesting.... I saw a photo of those but under the mifo brand....


----------



## asak (Jul 11, 2019)

BigZ12 said:


> I don't think it's the same.
> The Tevis got AptX and 10 hours battery life. The Mifo is "just" AAC and 6 hours?
> (check specs here: https://www.lypertek.com/product-page/lypertek-tevi-truly-wireless-earphones)



They're not. They're also tuned differently. Though the MPOW does have APTX.

Tevi graph - https://www.0db.co.kr/REVIEW_0DB/719395

MPow T5 graph - https://www.0db.co.kr/index.php?mid=REVIEW_0DB&page=2&document_srl=691410

It's kind of like the similarity between the Sonicast Direm and the QCY T1S. Though, if anyone knows how to get the Sonicast Direm in the US, please let me know!


----------



## Dcell7

vstolpner said:


> Oh interesting.... I saw a photo of those but under the mifo brand....


You are right. They look like the Mifo O4

http://www.mifo.hk/en/BluetSpeaker/show/108.html


----------



## Highfiver (Jul 11, 2019)

Hello all,

I’ve found so much helpful advice on this thread while searching for really good but reasonably priced TWE’s. Thank you all for that. I do have a question I’m hoping someone familiar with the Mifo 05’s may be able to answer. I purchased the Standard edition of the Mifo 05’s and really like them except for two things. 1) The max/loudest volume on them is not quite loud enough for me, mainly when I’m outdoors. 2) I feel like even with the large variety of tips, I’m not able to get the tips deep enough for a really good seal. So, my questions are: 1) Does the Professional model have a higher max/loudest volume than the Standards I currently own? Also, any opinions as to which set is better in terms of overall sound quality and listening experience especially related to rock music? I know one model is dynamic driver and the other balanced armature but in terms of real life usage, I’d love some opinions as to which model people prefer and why. 2) Does anyone know of any aftermarket silicone (not really a fan of foam) tips that will fit the Mifo’s as well as the case? Again, mainly seeking ones that will go deeper in the ear than the stock tips and will hopefully create a better seal. Will any of the Spinfit tips fit the buds and case?

One last question, what exactly is the difference between the Mifo 05’s and 07’s. Seems like there’s lots of hype on the 05’s (as well as being sold  everywhere) but not much info or availability on the 07’s.  Has anyone tried them out, and if so, what did you think of them? 

Thanks so much in advance!


----------



## falang

Soreniglio said:


> You bought from Anbes Audiocart, correct?



I just ordered two pairs for my family from Anbes Audiocart as well. My own pair was ordered from that store a month ago and they're fine, so, I don't know what to think.


----------



## vstolpner

Dcell7 said:


> You are right. They look like the Mifo O4
> 
> http://www.mifo.hk/en/BluetSpeaker/show/108.html



Any ideas if those are out / how to order them? Haven't seen them for sale anywhere....


----------



## vstolpner

Highfiver said:


> Hello all,
> 
> I’ve found so much helpful advice on this thread while searching for really good but reasonably priced TWE’s. Thank you all for that. I do have a question I’m hoping someone familiar with the Mifo 05’s may be able to answer. I purchased the Standard edition of the Mifo 05’s and really like them except for two things. 1) The max/loudest volume on them is not quite loud enough for me, mainly when I’m outdoors. 2) I feel like even with the large variety of tips, I’m not able to get the tips deep enough for a really good seal. So, my questions are: 1) Does the Professional model have a higher max/loudest volume than the Standards I currently own? Also, any opinions as to which set is better in terms of overall sound quality and listening experience especially related to rock music? I know one model is dynamic driver and the other balanced armature but in terms of real life usage, I’d love some opinions as to which model people prefer and why. 2) Does anyone know of any aftermarket silicone (not really a fan of foam) tips that will fit the Mifo’s as well as the case? Again, mainly seeking ones that will go deeper in the ear than the stock tips and will hopefully create a better seal. Will any of the Spinfit tips fit the buds and case?
> 
> ...



I'm not sure if the professional model will be louder. No one here has both that I'm aware of, but YouTube reviewer Gamesky does. Try messaging him on YouTube.

And the professional model doesn't have as much punchy base, but it's a much clearer sound. So it depends what you're interested in.

Why are you looking at mifo O5 specifically?


----------



## Dcell7

vstolpner said:


> Any ideas if those are out / how to order them? Haven't seen them for sale anywhere....



I have no clue. Did not even know the O4 existed till you said the Shanling are the same so i looked it up. Probably will be out soon.


----------



## vstolpner

Dcell7 said:


> I have no clue. Did not even know the O4 existed till you said the Shanling are the same so i looked it up. Probably will be out soon.



Seems they look a little different, but may be just differences in photos. I did notice the mifo O4 has ambient mode. So I'm curious what chipset it's using.

Seems both mifo O4 and Shanling MTW100 are getting released soon. Can't wait!!!!


----------



## vstolpner

First mifo O4 review is here.... In Thai.... Lol

 

Here's what I could get from Google translated screenshots

- Double-tap, play or pause the song - Double-tap, answer or end the call 
- Press and hold 2.5 seconds  thto turn the microphone on / off (use when listening to music)
- Waterproof IPX7
- 6 hours 
- If the headset box is included, the battery can last for 20 hours
- ambient mode
- wireless charging

Looks like only good improvements over the mifo O5.

What do you guys think of that Chrome look?


----------



## chinmie

vstolpner said:


> First mifo O4 review is here.... In Thai.... Lol
> 
> 
> 
> ...




no volume control?


----------



## DigDub

I'll be getting my hands on the mpow t5 tomorrow. Hope it will be good.


----------



## david8613

my anbes 359 came in a black box and are excellent!


----------



## typhoon838

Hi friends! 

So a few months ago I pulled the trigger on a pair of 359s at the recommendation of this forum. What a steal, I love the way they sound and they're super comfortable with a great seal with comply tips. I'm extremely happy with them and they blew the qcy t1c out of the water.

The only trouble I've ever had with them is the seemingly inconsistent volume. I'll take them out of the case and connect to my phone (galaxy s8), and they'll be less loud and punchy at a given volume setting (say, 2/3) than I remember them being. When I unpair the primary side and then re pair it with my phone, set the volume to where it was before, and play my music, the volume difference is very noticeable. Anyone know why this happens and what I can do so I don't have to unpair and pair them every time?


----------



## d3myz

DigDub said:


> I'll be getting my hands on the mpow t5 tomorrow. Hope it will be good.


Mine are out for Delivery, can't wait!


----------



## DigDub

d3myz said:


> Mine are out for Delivery, can't wait!


Do you know if the T5 has volume control? Some reviews do not mention this. The seller who is selling me the T5 says it has volume control. I think there are different revisions of the T5 buds.


----------



## d3myz (Jul 11, 2019)

vstolpner said:


> The Andes 359 that I received came in a completely different box. I don't have nine anymore, but it looked like the one in this photo. Did yours come with that bag too?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



That is the same box the 2 pair i've bought came in from amazon.


----------



## d3myz

david8613 said:


> do the t5 have aptx? can somone compare the mpow t5 with the anbes 359 and the tranya t3, this looks like my next purchase.


My T5's are coming today, I also have the 359 and the T3. I'd be happy to compare them and post my thoughts.


----------



## vstolpner

chinmie said:


> no volume control?



Not in writing in the video, but then I don't speak Thai and there's no translated subs, so not sure. But given how easy volume control was on the O5's, I don't imagine they'll skip on that feature


----------



## d3myz

DigDub said:


> Do you know if the T5 has volume control? Some reviews do not mention this. The seller who is selling me the T5 says it has volume control. I think there are different revisions of the T5 buds.


In Post #8497 According to @hifi80sman They do.

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/goi...re-we-there-yet.861024/page-567#post-15055237


----------



## vstolpner

typhoon838 said:


> Hi friends!
> 
> So a few months ago I pulled the trigger on a pair of 359s at the recommendation of this forum. What a steal, I love the way they sound and they're super comfortable with a great seal with comply tips. I'm extremely happy with them and they blew the qcy t1c out of the water.
> 
> The only trouble I've ever had with them is the seemingly inconsistent volume. I'll take them out of the case and connect to my phone (galaxy s8), and they'll be less loud and punchy at a given volume setting (say, 2/3) than I remember them being. When I unpair the primary side and then re pair it with my phone, set the volume to where it was before, and play my music, the volume difference is very noticeable. Anyone know why this happens and what I can do so I don't have to unpair and pair them every time?



Could be just the way your phone handles volume. I've noticed sometimes the phone will set a lower volume, maybe the earbuds do that too... Maybe try to always keep the earbuds at 100% and control in the phone only?

Could be some EQ setting in the phone, or could be switching between codecs.


----------



## DigDub

d3myz said:


> In Post #8497 According to @hifi80sman They do.
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/goi...re-we-there-yet.861024/page-567#post-15055237


Hopefully they do. I have been reading up some Russian reviews translated by Google and the double clicks skips track instead of adjusting the volume. I guess I will know when I get mine tomorrow.


----------



## vstolpner

DigDub said:


> Hopefully they do. I have been reading up some Russian reviews translated by Google and the double clicks skips track instead of adjusting the volume. I guess I will know when I get mine tomorrow.



Could be long press will increase volume - opposite of what 359 does. I've seen a couple TWE's that do it this way.

I still really like the way mifo O5 did that - two buttons just make so much sense.


----------



## DigDub

It does seems the mpow t5 had a few versions. The earliest versions only supported skipping forward tracks without ability to skip back and no volume control. The second version supports skip forward and back of tracks using double clicks but no volume control. The latest version adds volume control using double clicks and skipping of tracks I presume to be long presses.

Long Russian thread here on the mpow t5.

https://4pda.ru/forum/index.php?showtopic=939706


----------



## hifi80sman

DigDub said:


> Hopefully they do. I have been reading up some Russian reviews translated by Google and the double clicks skips track instead of adjusting the volume. I guess I will know when I get mine tomorrow.


Mine skips tracks with press and hold for a second (R forward, L reverse).


----------



## Zune

I've spent the day using the Tranya T3's and I'm really impressed. I will only use them to listen to music and i've used them for about 6 hours today around the house, in the garden, in the car, walking around a town, shopping in a supermarket and back home chilling and they've been rock solid. No disconnects, good sound and comfortable with good isolation. So that's it, I've got a DAP I'm happy with, a set of decent wired IEM's and a set of wireless IEM's I'm happy with. I'm good until something breaks and needs replacing.


----------



## Tranman409

Does anyone know how to disable the blinking light on the Mpow t5s?  It does it every 6 seconds or so, I would prefer to have it off to keep a low profile at work


----------



## d3myz

Tranman409 said:


> Does anyone know how to disable the blinking light on the Mpow t5s?  It does it every 6 seconds or so, I would prefer to have it off to keep a low profile at work


Tape?


----------



## d3myz

Just wanted to give a shout out to all you fellas. Before I found this group, I was just stabbing in the dark at random cheap chi-fi junk and wasting time and money. I appreciate the comradere, the obsession for high quality, inexpensive TWS' and taking the time to buy and review them. It's a Privilege, Gentlemen.


----------



## Caipirina (Jul 11, 2019)

Oh man, all that talk about the Mpow T5 ... and jeeesh, that one AliX seller even has them stored in Germany for fast shipping ... might hop on the band waggon 

Just cancelled my order for the Nillkin Go, as they had not sent them out after 2 days and e-packet was not an option and my delivery window is closing ...

Now I need to scroll back as to what all the hype about the Mpow T5 is )

Why is there hype actually? CV 8.0 Noise Cancelling (what the heck ever THAT is?) .. ok. IptX7 is nice .. AptX I don't really need ... Like the faux leather look of the case ... 

Maybe I wait until people who are receiving them now-ish chime in with their impressions on SQ ... 

Oh, and the Mifo 04 as well as the Shanling look nifty (somehow same / similar case design? )


----------



## FYLegend

vstolpner said:


> The Andes 359 that I received came in a completely different box. I don't have nine anymore, but it looked like the one in this photo. Did yours come with that bag too?


No, mine did not have the bag or "power user" card.



falang said:


> I just ordered two pairs for my family from Anbes Audiocart as well. My own pair was ordered from that store a month ago and they're fine, so, I don't know what to think.


Did you receive the Anbes or Coolhere?



vstolpner said:


> First mifo O4 review is here.... In Thai.... Lol
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Looks nice, it also appears to have type C charging! Not sure if it will be a lower tier than the O5. It uses "hybrid moving coil" dynamic driver, while the Shanling will have the option of either Knowles BA or graphene dynamic.


----------



## d3myz

My T5's are 9 stops away. Stop teasing me Amazon.... The anticipation is killing me.


----------



## vstolpner

FYLegend said:


> Looks nice, it also appears to have type C charging! Not sure if it will be a lower tier than the O5. It uses "hybrid moving coil" dynamic driver, while the Shanling will have the option of either Knowles BA or graphene dynamic.



Right, forgot to mention type-C charging - funny because I was really excited about it.... Lol

And I'm really curious to know how they stand compared to O5's. I think if they're not crazy expensive, I'll pick them up. Though I AM waiting for those hybrid 1more TWE's with the QCC51XX chipset.... Decisions....


----------



## vstolpner

d3myz said:


> My T5's are 9 stops away. Stop teasing me Amazon.... The anticipation is killing me.



Lol here in Canada we don't have such close tracking.... Just "before the end of the day"... Unless someone snatches it off your porch :-/


----------



## d3myz

It's been a while, but Anyone have the Advanced Model X and could compare them to the Anbes 359, Tranya T3, QCY T1C, MPOW T1 and any of the other popular inexpensive TWS' on here. I know a lot of folks pooped on them before they came out and I think they are still probably overpriced for $80, but I'd like to hear some impressions.


----------



## d3myz

vstolpner said:


> Lol here in Canada we don't have such close tracking.... Just "before the end of the day"... Unless someone snatches it off your porch :-/


If Amazon is the shipper they send me updates. I seem to live in a place where I always get a notification saying my package is 9 stops away.


----------



## hifi80sman (Jul 11, 2019)

chinmie said:


> i forgot, but do you also have the T1C or the Mifo o5 standard? how's the MPow compares in sound and functionality? i see now that it's safe to purchase them as they have corrected that connection issues that i read in the reviews. also can you compare the earpiece size to your other buds? does it sticks out too much?


I *had *the Mifo O5 standard, so I'd just be going off memory.

Out of the box, the Mifo O5 sounded a little too warm for my taste, and apparently it opens up after a while, but I didn't take the time to test that out.  I returned them shortly after.

The T5 are fairly balanced, with a little bump in the lows, but certainly not something I would classify as a bass-forward signature (E12, etc.).  They have a nice, clean, unoffensive sound.  They do, however, sit a little odd in the ear, and although comfortable, look kind of like they are just floating there, not really nestled in the ear.


----------



## hifi80sman

d3myz said:


> If Amazon is the shipper they send me updates. I seem to live in a place where I always get a notification saying my package is 9 stops away.


Me too.  I then track it with bated breath and wait outside for the guy to pull up.  I'm a borderline stalker.


----------



## d3myz

hifi80sman said:


> Me too.  I then track it with bated breath and wait outside for the guy to pull up.  I'm a borderline stalker.


I was literally just standing at the door waiting.  Just got them. man, these are the nicest earbuds I own. Nice case, nice packaging. listening to an audiobook and they sound Crisp!


----------



## hifi80sman

d3myz said:


> I was literally just standing at the door waiting.  Just got them. man, these are the nicest earbuds I own. Nice case, nice packaging. listening to an audiobook and they sound Crisp!


MPOW isn't messing around!


----------



## Alphasoixante (Jul 11, 2019)

Can anyone with the Tranya T3 please help if you can?:

Suddenly there is no sound coming from the left earpiece except for an occasional "pairing" spoken by a not-so-sultry woman. I've tried unpair/re-pair with my phone, letting the earpieces sit in the charging case until fully charged (at least as reported by my phone) and powering off both sides and re-powering. However, the left side continues to give me the silent treatment.


----------



## hifi80sman

Alphasoixante said:


> Can anyone with the Tranya T3 please help if you can?:
> 
> Suddenly there is no sound coming from the left earpiece except for an occasional "pairing" spoken by a not-so-sultry woman. I've tried unpair/re-pair with my phone, letting the earpieces sit in the charging case until fully charged (at least as reported by my phone) and powering off both sides and re-powering. However, the left side continues to give me the silent treatment.


I don't have the T3, but you may want to place them in the case and then plug the case in.  Sometimes there are case drain issues that can affect how the 'buds respond when removed from the case.


----------



## falang (Jul 11, 2019)

FYLegend said:


> Did you receive the Anbes or Coolhere?



My 1st pair were definitely Anbes. The two new pair are on their way, so we'll see.


----------



## actorlife (Jul 11, 2019)

d3myz said:


> I was literally just standing at the door waiting.  Just got them. man, these are the nicest earbuds I own. Nice case, nice packaging. listening to an audiobook and they sound Crisp!


I bet Mpow makes good stuff. I may get a pair later on in the year. So sad I can't buy some stuff I really want. Gotta stick to a budget.  I need to stay away from this thread too risky .


----------



## hifi80sman

actorlife said:


> I bet Mpow makes good stuff. I may get a pair later on in the year. So sad I can't buy some stuff I really want. Gotta stick to a budget.  I need to stay away from this thread too risky .


Dude, just perform in a few more Elvis Impersonation Shows and you'll be able to get another pair!

Also, you can try to sell some stuff on here, that way there are no ebay fees, etc.


----------



## firesign

Hi guys.
I need to buy a true wireless IEM, and I am thinking in Senheisser MTW, Bose Soundsport Free, or RHA TrueConnect. Only thinking in sound quality, which is the best choice? Thanks!


----------



## BigZ12

https://www.complyfoam.com/products/tru-truegrip-for-sennheiser-momentum-true-wireless/
Comply has just released the Truegrip for Sennheiser Momentum TWS.


----------



## vstolpner

actorlife said:


> I bet Mpow makes good stuff. I may get a pair later on in the year. So sad I can't buy some stuff I really want. Gotta stick to a budget.  I need to stay away from this thread too risky .



It's really important to stick to a budget in order to actually enjoy this hobby... But it's SOOOOOO difficult to not just buy a bunch of stuff!!!
I feel your pain!


----------



## Alphasoixante

hifi80sman said:


> you may want to place them in the case and then plug the case in. Sometimes there are case drain issues that can affect how the 'buds respond when removed from the case.



Thanks for the suggestion, but no love. I've decided that I'm returning them to Amazon . If they are giving me this kind of trouble within 2 weeks of purchase, I don't want to take my chances after the return period closes. I wasn't entirely keen on the sound, anyhow - The T3s had pretty sweet bass, but I wasn't a fan of the recessed mids or overall lack of clarity. What I would really like is the Galaxy Buds but with kick-ass bass and IPX5-7 rating. THAT would be a great TWE for me.


----------



## FYLegend

falang said:


> My 1st pair were definitely Anbes. The two new pair are on their way, so we'll see.


Hmm, the Coolhere might have been a backorder during the Aliexpress mid-year sale two weeks ago. Outside of that they probably had real Anbes.

Has anyone run audiocheck.net's benchmarks on their TWS?  The Coolhere fails miserably at the frequency skip with artifacts and rattling throughout the range. Generally those artifacts won't be noticeable with music, but they ruin it for me especially with pianos.   I almost never have problems with wired IEMs or over-ears in these benchmarks.


----------



## Caipirina

Alphasoixante said:


> Can anyone with the Tranya T3 please help if you can?:
> 
> Suddenly there is no sound coming from the left earpiece except for an occasional "pairing" spoken by a not-so-sultry woman. I've tried unpair/re-pair with my phone, letting the earpieces sit in the charging case until fully charged (at least as reported by my phone) and powering off both sides and re-powering. However, the left side continues to give me the silent treatment.wo



Maybe the old ‘hold both buds’ buttons down for 10-20seconds for a complete reset’  might work on the Tranya? Can’t say I have tried on mine.


----------



## vstolpner

FYLegend said:


> Hmm, the Coolhere might have been a backorder during the Aliexpress mid-year sale two weeks ago. Outside of that they probably had real Anbes.
> 
> Has anyone run audiocheck.net's benchmarks on their TWS?  The Coolhere fails miserably at the frequency skip with artifacts and rattling throughout the range. Generally those artifacts won't be noticeable with music, but they ruin it for me especially with pianos.   I almost never have problems with wired IEMs or over-ears in these benchmarks.



Just ran my 359 through it - no artifacts or anything of to sort, just clean sweeps and good central position.


----------



## dondonut

Bartig said:


> For sporting, I like a more bassy sound. The Haylou GT1 and Anomoibuds Capsule come to mind. Also the waterproof Mpow T6.



Heyo, thanks for getting back to me, I forgot to reply as I've been so busy of late. Decided to order the QCY qs2 for 20$ as I really liked the qs1. Didn't find the lower end to be lacking at all (did tiproll + great seal) and for that price they're a steal. The tranya t3 would cost me €50 (~56$), I'm not convinced the price difference is worth it. Furthermore i got some great wired stuff.

I'll keep my qs1 charging case as backup. May give the case + left bud to my mom though, so she can use it while running (I'm a cheapskate i know, but she likes to hear her surroundings and it's still useful if you want to use a running assistant).

Generally though, this is currently the only head-fi thread I'm following when I have some spare time, love the rapid advances in bt gear and can't wait where we are 6-12 months from now! Keep it going guys.


----------



## d3myz

So, first impressions of the MPOW T5. 

Case is Excellent

Build Quality is Excellent. 

Fit is also really nice. I like the Trayna's better, but the T5 is still great and less bulky.

Pairing and sync was easy, the leds are nice and dim they blink white ever couple of secs and the buds are pretty compact. 

Note: They don't play well, when you have multiple buds connected to your phone at the same time.

Compared to the 359, i'd say they are very similar sound quality wise. The sound stage is a noticeably more narrow on the T5, the mid range is near identical  maybe a touch lower directly in the middle of the EQ, but I do feel like the overall sound of the T5 is more crisp.The T5 is brighter especially on the high end and DEFINITELY has less (sub bass). This and the narrow sound stage are my biggest disappointment to be honest. The bass is prominent and it's clean, responsive and really punchy! But it's crossed over to a bit high for my taste. Even the T1C has more Sub Bass, too bad the volume on the T1C sucks.

Volume is very good on the T5 and The video sync in youtube actually works on my XS Max for most videos. Connecting in mono was a breeze. the buttons aren't great and they dig into my ears when i press them, but the 359s are the same. I can confirm My version of the T5 DO have volume control.

*** I need to mention again the Sound Stage. Compared to the Tranya T3, QCY T1C or Anbes 359s, the sound stage is def. more narrow. This really disappoints me. compared to the 359's and the T3's it just really mashes up the beautiful mixing and layering of a really well produced track. These buds still sound awesome I've noticed a little fatigue after listening for an hour or so due to all the treble. However for audiobooks these sound incredible.

One of my favorite tracks to play when I test earbuds is this. Check it out.

This track is perfect. There's an assload of sub and mid bass and on the Tranya's This song is incredible.  Also lots of mid range and high end synths and there are breakdown around 3 min. where everything cuts out except for the bass guitar and then it builds back up. You can literally hear everything in the mix rebuild. which is helpful to see how the buds handle. With the T5, you can still hear the layering, but it's much more smashed together coming more from the front than with the T3 or the 359. The 359's sound like the small synth noises are coming from far off to the sides in the distance, it's incredible. and the Tranya's, man,  They just F'in crush it. 

Anyway, sorry for rambling. Overall I'm very impressed with the MPOW T5 and unless you already have the Anbes 359's and a pair of Tranya T3's I'd definitely get these bad boys. They are a little more than the Tranya's $42-45 on amazon, but they have the Qualcomm 3020 chipset and the battery life is meant to be 6 hours, also they are IPX 6. And they are built quite a bit better than some of the cheaper buds. So basically your trading sound stage and some sub bass, for longer battery life, better connectivity, build quality, better water and dust resistance etc. 

I'll edit the post in a couple days when I test calling connectivity range and give them a chance to break in a bit.


----------



## d3myz

Alphasoixante said:


> Thanks for the suggestion, but no love. I've decided that I'm returning them to Amazon . If they are giving me this kind of trouble within 2 weeks of purchase, I don't want to take my chances after the return period closes. I wasn't entirely keen on the sound, anyhow - The T3s had pretty sweet bass, but I wasn't a fan of the recessed mids or overall lack of clarity. What I would really like is the Galaxy Buds but with kick-ass bass and IPX5-7 rating. THAT would be a great TWE for me.


How long have you had them and what tips are you using? I honestly felt the same way. i got mine yesterday and was going to return them. I switched to a medium JVC spiral dot from a small and man, huge diff. the mids and treble are really coming out more. You using a wide boar tip?


----------



## Alphasoixante

Caipirina said:


> Maybe the old ‘hold both buds’ buttons down for 10-20seconds for a complete reset’ might work on the Tranya? Can’t say I have tried on mine.



That didn't do it either.



d3myz said:


> How long have you had them and what tips are you using? I honestly felt the same way. i got mine yesterday and was going to return them. I switched to a medium JVC spiral dot from a small and man, huge diff. the mids and treble are really coming out more. You using a wide boar tip?



I've had them for about 2 weeks and was using the Final Audio E series tips. They are small bore. I don't have any wider-bore tips laying around, otherwise I would try your suggestion because now you have gotten me curious. Of course, I'd still need to figure out how to fix this issue I'm having with the left piece.


----------



## dondonut

d3myz said:


> So, first impressions of the MPOW T5.
> 
> Case is Excellent
> 
> ...



Heyo, wondering whether you're using a galaxy S8 with the QCY t1c/qs1 as you mentioned low volume. I had that issue when using the QCY qs1 but turning off 'volume synchronisation' in the Bluetooth settings increased the volume by something like ~30% for me!


----------



## d3myz

Alphasoixante said:


> That didn't do it either.
> 
> 
> 
> I've had them for about 2 weeks and was using the Final Audio E series tips. They are small bore. I don't have any wider-bore tips laying around, otherwise I would try your suggestion because now you have gotten me curious. Of course, I'd still need to figure out how to fix this issue I'm having with the left piece.


Well, if you got them from amazon, might just want to swap them out for another pair. I got my JVC Spiral Dots off ebay, they only make them in japan. They are pricey, but worth it to me. There are also some decent ones from Radio Shack I believe @Slater told me about. They are a little longer then most earbuds, but the do the trick.


----------



## d3myz

dondonut said:


> Heyo, wondering whether you're using a galaxy S8 with the QCY t1c/qs1 as you mentioned low volume. I had that issue when using the QCY qs1 but turning off 'volume synchronisation' in the Bluetooth settings increased the volume by something like ~30% for me!


Oh Wow. I use an Iphone and the volume at full is decent, but it's nowhere near the Anbes/Tranya/Mpow's


----------



## dondonut

d3myz said:


> Oh Wow. I use an Iphone and the volume at full is decent, but it's nowhere near the Anbes/Tranya/Mpow's



For me with volume sync on, max volume was on the edge of comfortable to too loud for me. Then after turning of volume sync that changed to about 70% volume which is the phone's built-in 'safety treshold'. Then again, I don't tend to listen at high volumes. Figured it was worth mentioning though.


----------



## d3myz

dondonut said:


> For me with volume sync on, max volume was on the edge of comfortable to too loud for me. Then after turning of volume sync that changed to about 70% volume which is the phone's built-in 'safety treshold'. Then again, I don't tend to listen at high volumes. Figured it was worth mentioning though.


Well, I really appreciate that. I have two pair of T1C's/T1S or whatever they are called in the larger case. I really like them. Oddly enough the both sound slightly different. My black pair are way more broken in, so i'm a big believer in burn in.


----------



## snip3r77

d3myz said:


> Oh Wow. I use an Iphone and the volume at full is decent, but it's nowhere near the Anbes/Tranya/Mpow's


How much Anbes volume has increased if compared?


----------



## hifi80sman (Jul 11, 2019)

d3myz said:


> So, first impressions of the MPOW T5.
> 
> Case is Excellent
> 
> ...


Nice impressions.  For me, the soundstage on the T5 is considerably better than the Anbes 359, HOWEVER, and a BIG HOWEVER, is because these are earbuds and fit in the ear canal, so anatomical differences I'm sure play a big role.


----------



## hifi80sman

Alphasoixante said:


> Thanks for the suggestion, but no love. I've decided that I'm returning them to Amazon . If they are giving me this kind of trouble within 2 weeks of purchase, I don't want to take my chances after the return period closes. I wasn't entirely keen on the sound, anyhow - The T3s had pretty sweet bass, but I wasn't a fan of the recessed mids or overall lack of clarity. What I would really like is the Galaxy Buds but with kick-ass bass and IPX5-7 rating. THAT would be a great TWE for me.


You might like the Astrotec S80.  They remind me a bit of the Galaxy buds, but with a little more bass.


----------



## hifi80sman (Jul 11, 2019)

firesign said:


> Hi guys.
> I need to buy a true wireless IEM, and I am thinking in Senheisser MTW, Bose Soundsport Free, or RHA TrueConnect. Only thinking in sound quality, which is the best choice? Thanks!


Any of those would be a great choice for SQ.  The Bose, however, are semi-open, so they'll let in some outside noise, which I find distracting if you're not in a quiet environment or don't need to be aware of your surroundings.

The MTW have an app to EQ to your preference, so you may like those the most.  However, they do have case drain issues with the battery, so if you don't mind plugging the case in every 72 hours, they're a winner.


----------



## FunctionalDoc

d3myz said:


> So, first impressions of the MPOW T5.
> 
> Case is Excellent
> 
> ...



Nice sample track. Check out Infected Mushroom the band form Israel.


----------



## jant71 (Jul 11, 2019)

Tried out the Bluedio for about a half hour...














What does $14.99 shipped get you? Cheapish plastic as you might expect but looks fine and is solid. They are USB C and have a good design. The oval ear tips are interesting but the sound bore are also oval shaped and short. Makes for a quick and easy and comfy fit. Buds auto on and connect only if you press the button on the case and they power on and pair while in the case and connect when taken out. If off they have to be manually turned on with the buttons.

Simple controls. Left and right play pause with one press, double press left for FF and double press right for RW. No volume control. Lady with an Asian accent announces your power on/off, connected, redial, etc.

Auto pause seems to work just fine. Player/phone starting in pause when you put the right side in it plays instantly. Take out the right side it pauses but with a 2 second delay. If you touch them near the sensor they will play again so you can't really wrap your fingers around them. Does make a cool remote if you are just listening with the left.

Connection seems rock solid so far. About 5 secs to connect. Tried the next room, player cupped in my hands(using these with a Ruizu X51 for sports stuff), all the front and back pocket positions and not a blip. Sound seems nicely balanced and a good size stage from the 13mm drivers. Some run in and finding the best tips should get some improvement. They have the highest volume I have heard from any BT device I have had so far. Volume output is not an issue with these.

Only niggles are the buttons could be easier to press but they are clicky buttons instead of soft press style, depending on tip there can be a little driver flex when pressing the buttons and they sit a little deep in their case so could be a smidge easier to get a hold of when removing them. Preference for some but the LED on the buds is quite faint. Won't bother you in the dark but you won't see it at all outside in the daylight.

Have no complaints as they came quick being in the US, guess Bluedio US would support it as they say 1 year from the date purchased, and are certainly worth the price. Great for what I want them for. A cheap knock around that is easy to fit, comfy, has buttons lower for wearing hats in the winter and not worrying about weather since they are cheap whether sweating when it is hot or shoveling snow.


----------



## vstolpner

jant71 said:


> Tried out the Bluedio for about a half hour...
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Thanks for the review!

How do they compare to other TWS earphones?


----------



## d3myz

snip3r77 said:


> How much Anbes volume has increased if compared?


I'd say probably 30-35% louder.


----------



## d3myz

hifi80sman said:


> Nice impressions.  For me, the soundstage on the T5 is considerably better than the Anbes 359, HOWEVER, and a BIG HOWEVER, is because these are earbuds and fit in the ear canal, so anatomical differences I'm sure play a big role.


It's funny that you mention that, I've been playing around with different tips and different tracks. The stock tips make the T5's sound like utter garbage to me and the T5 kind of has a weird fit, but I did notice on certain tracks the sound stage is in fact very wide. I do also love how quickly the turn on. I've used these for at least 2-3 hours and i'm still at 75% battery. impressive. The Anbes don't fit well in my ears, I just haven't found the right tips i guess, but no matter what tips I use, the sound stage is really wide. Another thing i've been wondering is quality control. I mentioned to someone earlier that I have a black pair of QCY T1S or QS1's whatever the model is that comes with the larger battery case with the lid. and a pair of white QCY T1S' and they do sound different. it's not night and day, but the black ones which i have had longer, seem to sound better, the bass is more responsive etc. Any thoughts on that?


----------



## d3myz

FunctionalDoc said:


> Nice sample track. Check out Infected Mushroom the band form Israel.


I've heard them, but it's been a long time, you have an album or track recommendation?


----------



## vstolpner

d3myz said:


> It's funny that you mention that, I've been playing around with different tips and different tracks. The stock tips make the T5's sound like utter garbage to me and the T5 kind of has a weird fit, but I did notice on certain tracks the sound stage is in fact very wide. I do also love how quickly the turn on. I've used these for at least 2-3 hours and i'm still at 75% battery. impressive. The Anbes don't fit well in my ears, I just haven't found the right tips i guess, but no matter what tips I use, the sound stage is really wide. Another thing i've been wondering is quality control. I mentioned to someone earlier that I have a black pair of QCY T1S or QS1's whatever the model is that comes with the larger battery case with the lid. and a pair of white QCY T1S' and they do sound different. it's not night and day, but the black ones which i have had longer, seem to sound better, the bass is more responsive etc. Any thoughts on that?



Could also be due to changing suppliers for the driver. Could be they used high quality ones in the beginning to get good reviews and build hype and then switched over to just slightly lower quality ones where majority of people wouldn't notice.


----------



## DigDub (Jul 12, 2019)

Got mine too. Initial impressions - warm sound signature with good mids and highs and good detail retrieval. Mine has volume control. No disconnections so far walking on the street and in the subway. The volume is pretty loud, probably one of the loudest tws I've owned.


----------



## igorneumann

Does anyone tried the Bakeey TWS?
They look exactly the same as the Sabbat X12 Pro

https://www.banggood.com/Bakeey-TWS...dphone-p-1475580.html?ID=224&cur_warehouse=CN


----------



## vstolpner

igorneumann said:


> Does anyone tried the Bakeey TWS?
> They look exactly the same as the Sabbat X12 Pro
> 
> https://www.banggood.com/Bakeey-TWS...dphone-p-1475580.html?ID=224&cur_warehouse=CN




There have been quite a few attempts at cheaper X12 pro here, and seems that only Sabbat were able to figure out sound quality. Everything else was pretty bad. Doubt this would be any different


----------



## FYLegend

dondonut said:


> Heyo, wondering whether you're using a galaxy S8 with the QCY t1c/qs1 as you mentioned low volume. I had that issue when using the QCY qs1 but turning off 'volume synchronisation' in the Bluetooth settings increased the volume by something like ~30% for me!


I was able to do this with my Astrotec S60 on my Note 9 until a software update in May, now the media volume sync option is greyed out, and "disable absolute volume" also does nothing. Now it's permanently stuck in the low volume state... There is noticeable distortion at max volume down to around 85%.

Speaking of which, going back to the S60 is like a sense of RELIEF after the Coolhere fiasco. I was loathing the disconnects of the S60, but nothing is worse than imbalanced bass, and comfort is on another level from the UFO. Considering getting the BT5.0 version but then again there are other alternatives at this point like the upcoming Mifo O4 and Shanling...


----------



## vstolpner

FYLegend said:


> I was able to do this with my Astrotec S60 on my Note 9 until a software update in May, now the media volume sync option is greyed out, and "disable absolute volume" also does nothing. Now it's permanently stuck in the low volume state... There is noticeable distortion at max volume down to around 85%.
> 
> Speaking of which, going back to the S60 is like a sense of RELIEF after the Coolhere fiasco. I was loathing the disconnects of the S60, but nothing is worse than imbalanced bass, and comfort is on another level from the UFO. Considering getting the BT5.0 version but then again there are other alternatives at this point like the upcoming Mifo O4 and Shanling...



If the BT5.0 S60 is anything like the S80 (Motivation), then at least you can rest assured that connectivity will be just fine.
I didn't find them the best, but very similar to mifo O5. Ironically Anbes 359 still have the best connectivity


----------



## igorneumann

vstolpner said:


> There have been quite a few attempts at cheaper X12 pro here, and seems that only Sabbat were able to figure out sound quality. Everything else was pretty bad. Doubt this would be any different



Thanks, I currently have the TFZ X1 and the Sabbat E12, will pass on this one then.
Im itching to buy the Syllable S101.


----------



## BigZ12

igorneumann said:


> Thanks, I currently have the TFZ X1 and the Sabbat E12, will pass on this one then.
> Im itching to buy the Syllable S101.


I really didn't like the Syllables. So narrow soundstage I felt the voices were in the back of my head. Almost made me dizzy...


----------



## jlcsoft

I have sold my syllable S101, can you reccomend me a better tws under 100$?. My principal point is the sound quality.
Thxs for your help.


----------



## vstolpner

jlcsoft said:


> I have sold my syllable S101, can you reccomend me a better tws under 100$?. My principal point is the sound quality.
> Thxs for your help.



Try the cheaper ones: Anbes 359 or Tranya T3. Alternatively try the 1more stylish or the TFZ X1E/mifo O5 Standard


----------



## srinivasvignesh

What is the difference between Mifo O5 Standard and Pro?


----------



## Caipirina

Found those yesterday on amazon.de for mere 20€ (while they still sell for 36GBP on amazon UK) and well, since I can return them, I thought I give them a try. Could not find out too much about them .. at least they are BT5, unlike that last Latow I tried. And on some customer photos it looks like the outer shell of the buds could be some soft rubber-y silicone material ... we shall see ... anyone know / has / tested these? Shall arrive Monday

Latow Luna: (and no, that lady in the last picture was not the convincer   )


----------



## SilverEars

Hi guys, I've created a thread so people can post their TW ranking on what they find to be the best to least.  Please share your thoughts.

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/rank-the-true-wireless-iems-youve-heard.910785/#post-15058059


----------



## RobinFood

Caipirina said:


> Found those yesterday on amazon.de for mere 20€ (while they still sell for 36GBP on amazon UK) and well, since I can return them, I thought I give them a try. Could not find out too much about them .. at least they are BT5, unlike that last Latow I tried. And on some customer photos it looks like the outer shell of the buds could be some soft rubber-y silicone material ... we shall see ... anyone know / has / tested these? Shall arrive Monday
> 
> Latow Luna: (and no, that lady in the last picture was not the convincer   )



The lion convinced you, right?
Just to put my mind at ease, do you get paid for reviews of the cheapest buds imaginable? 
You could probably have the Fostex TWE adapter thingies with custom IEMs for all the money you've been putting down on these.
It makes me a little nervous seeing your new purchases.


----------



## Caipirina

RobinFood said:


> The lion convinced you, right?
> Just to put my mind at ease, do you get paid for reviews of the cheapest buds imaginable?
> You could probably have the Fostex TWE adapter thingies with custom IEMs for all the money you've been putting down on these.
> It makes me a little nervous seeing your new purchases.



LOL! 

I wish I was get paid for that ... but nopes ... the closest to this would be the one 'freebie' pair of i7 TWS (those really crappy ones, first AirPod clone) that I got via the AliX Freebie program  

Thing is, and I might have mentioned that before: Because of various reasons / living conditions, I can only take advantage of online ordering during the summer months, when I visit the 'civilized' world. So, first I raid AliX, and when that delivery window closes, I go for Amazon.

And yes, I get a total kick out of finding a cheap pair that actually rocks (Anbes 359, Tranya T3, ZagZog (more on those later) ... or getting those Havit i93 for 24€ (listening to them right now, still deciding if I keep them)
Looking back that for my very first pair of TWS, the Jabra Elite Sport, I paid 250$ and they had terrible battery leak issues, were only good with ONE of the supplied ear tips, which broke after few weeks ... 
Like the ladies like their shoes, I enjoy the variety  

Oh, and I do have those BT20 and rotate my IEMs on those as well. I spend a lot of time running & walking, that's when I get most of my music listening done.


----------



## jlcsoft

vstolpner said:


> Try the cheaper ones: Anbes 359 or Tranya T3. Alternatively try the 1more stylish or the TFZ X1E/mifo O5 Standard


Thxs for yor replay. I´ve got the Tranya T3, they have a 10€ discount on Amazon.  I will comment my impressions. Dou you recommend to buy another ear tips to enhance the sound quality?

Best regards.


----------



## Alphasoixante

hifi80sman said:


> You might like the Astrotec S80. They remind me a bit of the Galaxy buds, but with a little more bass.



Thanks for the suggestion. How is their track record with connection and battery?

Also, I looked around the net yesterday and it doesn't seem to be in stock anywhere in the US. Matter of fact Audio46 lists them as a pre-order(?). I'm going to give them a call later to clarify and see when they are expected to be in stock. I'd love to pay a visit to demo the Astrotec and any others of interest they have.


----------



## Bartig

Up up here we go: three new items (of which two generic popular ones) to test.


----------



## igorneumann

srinivasvignesh said:


> What is the difference between Mifo O5 Standard and Pro?



A BA driver.
The Pro is a hybrid, the standard is dynamic.
I have the Pro, but no idea why the standard one was suggested.


----------



## d3myz

Just noticed this Tranya T1 Pro. Looks like a Version of the MPOW T5, I can't find any details on it's chipset and whether or not it's the same QCC3020 as the T5. they are only IPX 5, but touted to have the same 5-6 hour battery life. gonna snag them to try. should be here tomorrow.


----------



## d3myz

igorneumann said:


> A BA driver.
> The Pro is a hybrid, the standard is dynamic.
> I have the Pro, but no idea why the standard one was suggested.


I believe it's because some people feel the Standard's dynamic driver has better sound quality for less money. If you search the thread you'll find it mentioned several times.


----------



## Bartig

d3myz said:


> Just noticed this Tranya T1 Pro. Looks like a Version of the MPOW T5, I can't find any details on it's chipset and whether or not it's the same QCC3020 as the T5. they are only IPX 5, but touted to have the same 5-6 hour battery life. gonna snag them to try. should be here tomorrow.


The Tranya T1-Pro are great, just like the Tranya T3. Some more air and presence in the highs, although the soundstage is a bit smaller on the T1-Pro.

Just got the Anbes 359, without a branding on the product. It sounds airy indeed - however, the bass lacks any detail and just delivers a slow thump. For the ones wanting to compare the Anbes to the Tranya's, now that the latter sound way more detailed.


----------



## d3myz

Bartig said:


> The Tranya T1-Pro are great, just like the Tranya T3. Some more air and presence in the highs, although the soundstage is a bit smaller on the T1-Pro.
> 
> Just got the Anbes 359, without a branding on the product. It sounds airy indeed - however, the bass lacks any detail and just delivers a slow thump. For the ones wanting to compare the Anbes to the Tranya's, now that the latter sound way more detailed.



Thanks for the info on the T1-pro, have you happen to have heard the MPOW T5? I have a branded Anbes 359 and my bass has detail and thump, but it's not like the T3's bass. I've also found i very much depends on what your listening to and the tips i use. I have to use larger tips with the 359's to get a better seal due to the way they fit.


----------



## vstolpner (Jul 12, 2019)

srinivasvignesh said:


> What is the difference between Mifo O5 Standard and Pro?



The standard is a dynamic driver and pro is balanced armature. It's whether you want bass or clarity.

Check out my review in my signature.



jlcsoft said:


> Thxs for yor replay. I´ve got the Tranya T3, they have a 10€ discount on Amazon.  I will comment my impressions. Dou you recommend to buy another ear tips to enhance the sound quality?
> 
> Best regards.



It's all about the seal. If the existing eartips give you a great seal then you should be fine, otherwise try something else. SpinFit are great.
That said, mifo O5 have fantastic tips and I use their tips with my Anbes 359.
I talk about this in my mifo O5 review - see signature.



Alphasoixante said:


> Thanks for the suggestion. How is their track record with connection and battery?
> 
> Also, I looked around the net yesterday and it doesn't seem to be in stock anywhere in the US. Matter of fact Audio46 lists them as a pre-order(?). I'm going to give them a call later to clarify and see when they are expected to be in stock. I'd love to pay a visit to demo the Astrotec and any others of interest they have.



They're called Astrotec Motivation in the US. And they're on a deal!
https://www.amazon.com/Astrotec-Motivation-Beryllium-Headphones-Sweatproof/dp/B07SBVXG26/
See my signature for my review.



igorneumann said:


> A BA driver.
> The Pro is a hybrid, the standard is dynamic.
> I have the Pro, but no idea why the standard one was suggested.



The pro is a single balanced armature, not hybrid.
I don't believe there is any hybrid driver TWS earphone right now. That's why I'm super excited for the new 1more TWS earphones.

The standard has more bass. The pro's single BA has a great and clear sound, but you have to get used to it. Not everyone like it. Having said that, I'm one of the people who prefer BA sound.


----------



## srinivasvignesh

Great details. Thank you. Is the 1more a hybrid?


----------



## Alphasoixante (Jul 12, 2019)

vstolpner said:


> They're called Astrotec Motivation in the US. And they're on a deal!



Hey, thanks!  Just placed an order and should have them tomorrow afternoon.


----------



## vstolpner

srinivasvignesh said:


> Great details. Thank you. Is the 1more a hybrid?



The new one they announced this year. The stylish / E1026BT is a dynamic driver.


----------



## RobinFood

vstolpner said:


> The standard is a dynamic driver and pro is balanced armature. It's whether you want bass or clarity.
> 
> Check out my review in my signature.
> 
> ...



There is the Kong X here in Japan that is a hybrid, but it is too big to be useful as a TWS.


----------



## vstolpner

RobinFood said:


> There is the Kong X here in Japan that is a hybrid, but it is too big to be useful as a TWS.



Haven't heard of it... Do you have pictures/link?

And I know there's also the BT20(S)/Fostex+IEM pairings but that doesn't count due to their size. In my opinion anyway


----------



## igorneumann (Jul 12, 2019)

Old wong comment: (The images clearly shows a dynamic driver and a BA...)

EDIT: Holymoly, I was all this time thinking the battery was a driver... Sorry.









vstolpner said:


> The standard is a dynamic driver and pro is balanced armature. It's whether you want bass or clarity.
> 
> Check out my review in my signature.
> 
> ...


----------



## Judge Buff

riodgarp said:


> so what eartips do you use for mifo? I considering spinfit cp350 or cp360 tough


I’ve found that KZ’s eartips seal better for me with most IEMs. My new Mifo o5 pros are no different. They definitely sound “cleaner” than the stock tips to my ears.


----------



## Highfiver

Question for you, I have the standard Mifo 05’s and just ordered the Pro’s (got a deal on Amazon for $67). Is there a difference in terms of max volume levels between the two models? My Standards are typically at around max volume when listening to Spotify on my iPhone (without eq as I don’t like the distorted effects). I’m worried that if the Pro’s don’t have the same max volume level, I’ll run into an issue. Also, being that the Pro’s utilize a BA vs DD and will likely have noticeably less bass, on the rare occasion I want to boost the bass, can a good EQ app boost the bass levels to sound close to that of the Standard? And one last question, (I apologize for all these!), regarding the tips, do you know which model of spinfit will fit the Mifo’s and if the buds will fit in the case with them on? And what are KZ tips? I’ve never heard of them...? Thanks so much in advance!






[/QUOTE]


vstolpner said:


> The standard is a dynamic driver and pro is balanced armature. It's whether you want bass or clarity.
> 
> Check out my review in my signature.
> 
> ...


----------



## igorneumann

I dont have the standard to compare, but BA drivers usually use less energy than DD, resulting in higher volume, I didnt had problem with volume on those.

KZ is a brand of super cheap great sounding iems. (Im talking about a 12$ unit sounding way better than any TWS I tried, there is compromises on going full wireless) and no they will not fit in its box with a regular eartip.



Highfiver said:


> Question for you, I have the standard Mifo 05’s and just ordered the Pro’s (got a deal on Amazon for $67). Is there a difference in terms of max volume levels between the two models? My Standards are typically at around max volume when listening to Spotify on my iPhone (without eq as I don’t like the distorted effects). I’m worried that if the Pro’s don’t have the same max volume level, I’ll run into an issue. Also, being that the Pro’s utilize a BA vs DD and will likely have noticeably less bass, on the rare occasion I want to boost the bass, can a good EQ app boost the bass levels to sound close to that of the Standard? And one last question, (I apologize for all these!), regarding the tips, do you know which model of spinfit will fit the Mifo’s and if the buds will fit in the case with them on? And what are KZ tips? I’ve never heard of them...? Thanks so much in advance!


[/QUOTE]


----------



## igorneumann

Oh and about the bass... Yeah, they lack a bit of bass, and no, they will not have big bass equalizing.



Highfiver said:


> Question for you, I have the standard Mifo 05’s and just ordered the Pro’s (got a deal on Amazon for $67). Is there a difference in terms of max volume levels between the two models? My Standards are typically at around max volume when listening to Spotify on my iPhone (without eq as I don’t like the distorted effects). I’m worried that if the Pro’s don’t have the same max volume level, I’ll run into an issue. Also, being that the Pro’s utilize a BA vs DD and will likely have noticeably less bass, on the rare occasion I want to boost the bass, can a good EQ app boost the bass levels to sound close to that of the Standard? And one last question, (I apologize for all these!), regarding the tips, do you know which model of spinfit will fit the Mifo’s and if the buds will fit in the case with them on? And what are KZ tips? I’ve never heard of them...? Thanks so much in advance!


[/QUOTE]


----------



## vstolpner

riodgarp said:


> so what eartips do you use for mifo? I considering spinfit cp350 or cp360 tough



I use the mifo eartips with it as well. Since they sit quite shallow, I find they need a larger eartip. Whereas my Anbes 359 sit deeper, so a smaller eartip is sufficient.


----------



## hifi80sman

Caipirina said:


> Found those yesterday on amazon.de for mere 20€ (while they still sell for 36GBP on amazon UK) and well, since I can return them, I thought I give them a try. Could not find out too much about them .. at least they are BT5, unlike that last Latow I tried. And on some customer photos it looks like the outer shell of the buds could be some soft rubber-y silicone material ... we shall see ... anyone know / has / tested these? Shall arrive Monday
> 
> Latow Luna: (and no, that lady in the last picture was not the convincer   )


I had those.  The sound was an acceptable, bass-forward signature.  If I remember correctly, they may have had a slightly louder noise floor, but it's not noticeable when music is playing (unless you're listening to classical).  I probably would have kept them for gym earbuds if they didn't have connections issues.  One of the buds (can't remember which one) kept dropping connection.  Hopefully, you won't have that issue.


----------



## vstolpner (Jul 12, 2019)

Highfiver said:


> Question for you, I have the standard Mifo 05’s and just ordered the Pro’s (got a deal on Amazon for $67). Is there a difference in terms of max volume levels between the two models? My Standards are typically at around max volume when listening to Spotify on my iPhone (without eq as I don’t like the distorted effects). I’m worried that if the Pro’s don’t have the same max volume level, I’ll run into an issue. Also, being that the Pro’s utilize a BA vs DD and will likely have noticeably less bass, on the rare occasion I want to boost the bass, can a good EQ app boost the bass levels to sound close to that of the Standard? And one last question, (I apologize for all these!), regarding the tips, do you know which model of spinfit will fit the Mifo’s and if the buds will fit in the case with them on? And what are KZ tips? I’ve never heard of them...? Thanks so much in advance!



Basically what's been said:
- BA drivers typically don't need as much power to drive them, so you shouldn't have any issues with volume
- EQ likely won't help if you're looking for thumping base as the BA's just don't have the mass/inertia to provide that. They're are dedicated bass BA's, but you don't see that until you get into 2 or 3 BA IEMs. This is the reason you see so many hybrid IEMs - BA for the clear highs and mids and dynamic for the base.

Keep in mind that BA will still deliver what I would consider melodic base - piano/cello all sound fantastic. It's the impact that you won't get - so drums etc won't have the rumble/thump that you can feel.

Edit:
Oh and the mifo case is quite small, so if you want to use SpinFit you'll have to trim them down a lot for them to fit. Which defeats the purpose as they will again no longer sit very deep.

Someone on here cut their case to allow more space for the eartips. Could be something to consider.


----------



## DigDub

d3myz said:


> It's funny that you mention that, I've been playing around with different tips and different tracks. The stock tips make the T5's sound like utter garbage to me and the T5 kind of has a weird fit, but I did notice on certain tracks the sound stage is in fact very wide. I do also love how quickly the turn on. I've used these for at least 2-3 hours and i'm still at 75% battery. impressive. The Anbes don't fit well in my ears, I just haven't found the right tips i guess, but no matter what tips I use, the sound stage is really wide. Another thing i've been wondering is quality control. I mentioned to someone earlier that I have a black pair of QCY T1S or QS1's whatever the model is that comes with the larger battery case with the lid. and a pair of white QCY T1S' and they do sound different. it's not night and day, but the black ones which i have had longer, seem to sound better, the bass is more responsive etc. Any thoughts on that?


I'm using Accoustune aet07 medium sized tips on the T5. It brings clarity and a tighter faster bass to the sound.


----------



## Caipirina

hifi80sman said:


> I had those.  The sound was an acceptable, bass-forward signature.  If I remember correctly, they may have had a slightly louder noise floor, but it's not noticeable when music is playing (unless you're listening to classical).  I probably would have kept them for gym earbuds if they didn't have connections issues.  One of the buds (can't remember which one) kept dropping connection.  Hopefully, you won't have that issue.



Thanks for the heads up! Will keep and eye out ... errrr ear out for connection issues on these ...   if bad, back to amazon they go. 

STill on the fence with the Mpow ... found them now on amazon.de ... but they are in the 'pricier' region and the review a few pages back mentions 'disappointment' at least twice ... maybe IF they end up on deal of the day


----------



## Caipirina (Jul 12, 2019)

Bartig said:


> Up up here we go: three new items (of which two generic popular ones) to test.



Just checked your review page again .. no written thoughts on the Havit i93 yet? I am still confused .. they are not bad .. and they were 'cheap-ish' ... but I am also not in love with them ...

That X8 ... seen that a-plenty on ebay ... but always feared they just HAVE to be bad ... looking fwd to what you say ... (Bonus question: the cheap ones I see on ebay seem to be BT4.2 ... what about the ones you got?) 

Looks like we are fellow hoarders ... errr ... i mean 'collectors'


----------



## actorlife

Bartig said:


> Up up here we go: three new items (of which two generic popular ones) to test.


This is pissing me off. Seems like sellers are not sending the Anbes 359 and are sending some unknown brands. I hope you don't judge these as a Anbes product. Hopefully you can get the real deal soon.


----------



## hifi80sman

DigDub said:


> I'm using Accoustune aet07 medium sized tips on the T5. It brings clarity and a tighter faster bass to the sound.


I'm using large tips from my Sabbat E12.  The way in which they fit in the ear, tips make a huge difference with respect to the sound (direction/distance of the drivers, material).


----------



## vstolpner

Caipirina said:


> Thanks for the heads up! Will keep and eye out ... errrr ear out for connection issues on these ...   if bad, back to amazon they go.
> 
> STill on the fence with the Mpow ... found them now on amazon.de ... but they are in the 'pricier' region and the review a few pages back mentions 'disappointment' at least twice ... maybe IF they end up on deal of the day



I'm in the same boat... Checking deals page on the daily, looking forward to Monday....


----------



## assassin10000

Anyone ever get the Mifo o2?


----------



## tekwrx

vstolpner said:


> I'm in the same boat... Checking deals page on the daily, looking forward to Monday....



Me too! Hoping the T5 is on sale during Prime Day. I'm very new to TWS, started with the SoundPeats TrueFree+ (QCY QS2) about a week ago, but am sending them back since I got the Tranya T3. Really happy with those, but the AptX in the MPOW T5 has me really curious. Plus I think they look nicer than the T3 and I hope they'll be a bit more comfortable. The T3 starts to hurt my ears after an hour or so.

To those who have both, if I'm happy with the sound of the Tranya T3, will I be disappointed with the MPOW T5? Or are they close enough to each other that it comes down to looks/ergonomics, features (AptX), or case design?


----------



## Highfiver (Jul 12, 2019)

hifi80sman said:


> I'm using large tips from my Sabbat E12.  The way in which they fit in the ear, tips make a huge difference with respect to the sound (direction/distance of the drivers, material).


Curious, which of the Sabbat stock tips (or other type tip) do you find fit best with the E12’s? I feel like none of the stock ones (tried them all multiple times) really fit that well.The narrower ones don’t create any seal and the widest (which fit the best of them) creates a vacuum/plunger feel which messes with the sound and I constantly have to tug on my ear to release the vacuum. Also, with the widest stock tips, although they create a seal, I don’t feel like they allow the earbuds do really fit snugly up against my ears like my Mifo 05’s. And although I’m not a big fan of foam tips, I did try some Comply’s on them but didn’t like them. Any suggestions, tips (no pun intended), etc on tips for them or how to get the best seal? What about Spinfits? Thanks!


----------



## msooffutt

Not sure if anyone has mentioned this yet, but frys has a promo on Sennheiser Momentums for $199 with promo code 2288.  Unfortunately it’s in store pickup only.  I wish I had a frys near me. Oh well

PS:  I think it’s today only


----------



## d3myz

Anyone that has the Mifo 05 also have the 359's, T5's, T3's, T1C? how does the sound compare? and what makes the Mifo's worth $80-90?


DigDub said:


> I'm using Accoustune aet07 medium sized tips on the T5. It brings clarity and a tighter faster bass to the sound.


Any Idea how they compare to the JVC Victor Spiral dots?


----------



## DigDub

d3myz said:


> Anyone that has the Mifo 05 also have the 359's, T5's, T3's, T1C? how does the sound compare? and what makes the Mifo's worth $80-90?
> 
> Any Idea how they compare to the JVC Victor Spiral dots?


I have the o5 standard and t1c. I don't like the o5, they sound too muffled for my taste. T1c are still one of my favorites, if it had volume control and longer battery life, it would have been perfect. 

I have the spiral dot tips. I can't get a good seal with them.


----------



## hifi80sman

DigDub said:


> I have the o5 standard and t1c. I don't like the o5, they sound too muffled for my taste. T1c are still one of my favorites, if it had volume control and longer battery life, it would have been perfect.
> 
> I have the spiral dot tips. I can't get a good seal with them.


I totally agree.  I felt the Mifo O5 was too muffled (let's be nice and say "warm").


----------



## vstolpner (Jul 12, 2019)

d3myz said:


> Anyone that has the Mifo 05 also have the 359's, T5's, T3's, T1C? how does the sound compare? and what makes the Mifo's worth $80-90?
> 
> Any Idea how they compare to the JVC Victor Spiral dots?





hifi80sman said:


> I totally agree.  I felt the Mifo O5 was too muffled (let's be nice and say "warm").



I had the mifo O5 professional and found the sound very nice. In a certain way better than then 359, but the 359 obviously had more base. The O5 was much clearer and I liked the fit better for extended listening sessions. They generally looked much nicer, but that's personal.

I don't have the O5 anymore, but I'm very excited for the O4 coming soon.

I've got reviews of both in my signature.

Edit: I actually never understood why the mifo O5 didn't have more love on here, but I guess if the standards are a bit muffled then that makes sense. They probably designed them for balanced armature and threw in the dynamic option later. Because the professional version sounds great


----------



## d3myz

DigDub said:


> I have the o5 standard and t1c. I don't like the o5, they sound too muffled for my taste. T1c are still one of my favorites, if it had volume control and longer battery life, it would have been perfect.
> 
> I have the spiral dot tips. I can't get a good seal with them.


I've actually had to buy the large, medium and medium smalls, to find the right size. My IEMs fit a lot differently than the TWS'. I go back a forth between the MS and M depending on the earbud.


----------



## d3myz

Caipirina said:


> Thanks for the heads up! Will keep and eye out ... errrr ear out for connection issues on these ...   if bad, back to amazon they go.
> 
> STill on the fence with the Mpow ... found them now on amazon.de ... but they are in the 'pricier' region and the review a few pages back mentions 'disappointment' at least twice ... maybe IF they end up on deal of the day


Day 2 with my T5's I'm LOVING them.


----------



## d3myz

tekwrx said:


> Me too! Hoping the T5 is on sale during Prime Day. I'm very new to TWS, started with the SoundPeats TrueFree+ (QCY QS2) about a week ago, but am sending them back since I got the Tranya T3. Really happy with those, but the AptX in the MPOW T5 has me really curious. Plus I think they look nicer than the T3 and I hope they'll be a bit more comfortable. The T3 starts to hurt my ears after an hour or so.
> 
> To those who have both, if I'm happy with the sound of the Tranya T3, will I be disappointed with the MPOW T5? Or are they close enough to each other that it comes down to looks/ergonomics, features (AptX), or case design?


Well, they def. sound different. The T5 is has higher mids and highs and a lot less sub bass, but the bass is still really good IMO. They are built really well, connection is good, battery is excellent. I'm listening to them right now. and I just started using aptX. I have to force it on my mac. and WOW!! It's way louder and feels fuller to me. I got mine for $42 on amazon. and phone calls are excellent.


----------



## FYLegend

Bartig said:


> The Tranya T1-Pro are great, just like the Tranya T3. Some more air and presence in the highs, although the soundstage is a bit smaller on the T1-Pro.
> 
> Just got the Anbes 359, without a branding on the product. It sounds airy indeed - however, the bass lacks any detail and just delivers a slow thump. For the ones wanting to compare the Anbes to the Tranya's, now that the latter sound way more detailed.



Which seller did you buy from? My UFO came in a similar box but with a "Dream Sport" logo on the top right, on the back of the box it says the model is BE30. Your impression sounds like my right bud which barely has a thump and just a bit of mid-bass. To change volume, do you double-tap or hold the button?

On Alibaba there's quite a few manufacturers selling the UFO TWS/BE30, but without them describing specific features like hold vs double-tap for volume control it is difficult to pinpoint where each is coming from. My concern is that Anbes might be running out of stock (they are no longer listed on Amazon.com, for example) and their storefronts are changing to these rebrands. Some of the Ali sellers manage multiple stores, I suspect Anbes Official might actually be the same person as Audiocart...

Here's a demo (just recorded it off my phone with some EQ to compensate for the phone mainly picking up treble). The bass imbalance isn't as noticeable in the sample (probably in part due to position and recording equipment), but it's still there.  https://instaud.io/3Wfn/delete/8e6106d9121dc9c7e52cdcd3f5f4800035e499e5


----------



## Caipirina

Still looking for a way to get my grubby hands on the Nillkin Go, but seems that no version has hit EU amazon yet.

But I found something called the Raycon E50 (but alas, only US shipping) ... and I just want to hear opinions if anyone knows / agrees that these at least look like the Nillkin Go ... what's inside .. we never know ...


----------



## d3myz

Just a quick update. I used aptX for the first time today on my hackintosh with the T5's. Personally I feel like it makes a big difference in overall sound quality on spotify. it's def. louder and there's much more full bass. These T5's are excellent. I think I may like them as much as the 359's.While I was comparing the two in Mac OS I noticed that the 359's only support SBC. No matter what I tried I couldn't get them to play via AAC. Wow, I can only imagine what they'd sound like with a better quality codec. @Slater you know of any way to modify this?  I also compared the T5's to my iBasso IT01's using some custom aptX cable from Penon audio. The T5 isn't as defined. The IT01s are very bright but they sound so good they make me loose my wits whenever I use them, the soundstage is incredible/ IMO the T5 is really close in definition and soundstage but not quite there. The T5 has more clean and punchy low end. I'm just super impressed for $42. Also the call quality is excellent. connecting to phone or computer is fine. One of my gripes is that two connections show up for the T5 and they aren't labeled R or L. Also, you have to hold down the right bud for 7 seconds to power off. This doesn't' always work without out FFWding your track. minor annoyances. The connection can be finicky when connecting to an apple tv or fire tv. but they sound great for watching TV and movies. If you can't get a real Anbes 359, want a little better crisper highs, IPX7 , a 5-6 hour battery life, aptX and a well built earbud, the T5 is worth adding to your collection. Also, if anyone find a real Anbes 359 with branding please let me know, I need to get a couple more pair.


----------



## vstolpner

Caipirina said:


> Still looking for a way to get my grubby hands on the Nillkin Go, but seems that no version has hit EU amazon yet.
> 
> But I found something called the Raycon E50 (but alas, only US shipping) ... and I just want to hear opinions if anyone knows / agrees that these at least look like the Nillkin Go ... what's inside .. we never know ...



Raycon is the US brand that seems to be heavily advertising rebrands here. They had the Sabbat X12 pro first. I was wondering who they rebranded next. Could very well be these.


----------



## SuperLuigi

Anyone own the QCY T3 and want to give an opinion on the ear tip?  From the pics, it looks like a hard plastic that isn't a traditional IEM.  I was ready to purchase it but I'm really unsure about how thats gonna fit.


----------



## Caipirina

vstolpner said:


> Raycon is the US brand that seems to be heavily advertising rebrands here. They had the Sabbat X12 pro first. I was wondering who they rebranded next. Could very well be these.


Thanks for shedding light on that ... I saw in their shop something that looked like a Sabbat ... cheers!


----------



## d3myz

Anyone have thoughts on the Astrotec S80? comparisons to the T5, T3 and 359?


----------



## vstolpner

d3myz said:


> Anyone have thoughts on the Astrotec S80? comparisons to the T5, T3 and 359?



I've had the 359 and S80. I find the 359 is more balanced and more neutral. The S80 has more bass but recessed mids and sometimes the highs are a little shrill / sibilant.

Check out my reviews in my signature (sorry if I've mentioned this already)


----------



## actorlife

Anbes 359 open box $20:
https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https://www.ebay.com/ulk/itm/123833593668
Holy mackerel if it weren't for my budget... I'm already regretting posting this. Go get them.


----------



## hifi80sman

vstolpner said:


> I had the mifo O5 professional and found the sound very nice. In a certain way better than then 359, but the 359 obviously had more base. The O5 was much clearer and I liked the fit better for extended listening sessions. They generally looked much nicer, but that's personal.
> 
> I don't have the O5 anymore, but I'm very excited for the O4 coming soon.
> 
> ...


Correct, I had the standard version.  The Mifo O5 Pro with the BA, I'm sure sounds better from a clarity perspective.


d3myz said:


> Well, they def. sound different. The T5 is has higher mids and highs and a lot less sub bass, but the bass is still really good IMO. They are built really well, connection is good, battery is excellent. I'm listening to them right now. and I just started using aptX. I have to force it on my mac. and WOW!! It's way louder and feels fuller to me. I got mine for $42 on amazon. and phone calls are excellent.


Yes, the call quality was probably the most unexpected, but pleasant surprise.  Definitely in the top-tier of ANY TWE I've tried or have, which includes the MTW, E8, MW07, RHA, etc.  Probably not quite the 65t, but man, right up there.


----------



## vstolpner

hifi80sman said:


> Yes, the call quality was probably the most unexpected, but pleasant surprise.  Definitely in the top-tier of ANY TWE I've tried or have, which includes the MTW, E8, MW07, RHA, etc.  Probably not quite the 65t, but man, right up there.



I see you've also got the 359 - which TWE would you say has better call quality than 359?


----------



## d3myz

vstolpner said:


> I see you've also got the 359 - which TWE would you say has better call quality than 359?


IMO the MPOW T5 is hands down the best i've used. I also have the 359's.


----------



## d3myz

actorlife said:


> Anbes 359 open box $20:
> https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https://www.ebay.com/ulk/itm/123833593668
> Holy mackerel if it weren't for my budget... I'm already regretting posting this. Go get them.


@actorlife Doing the lord's work my friend  I just snagged them.


----------



## turbobb

Going through Amazon's Prime Day Launches and while there are a few TWE's, I came across this Philips that hasn't been discussed yet:
https://www.amazon.com/Philips-SHB4385-Wireless-Playtime-Charging/dp/B07P5JSZK5
(I'm seeing the same price with current listing so not sure how this is a deal.)

They look really huge, and still just BT4.1...

SPECS:

Big pumping bass: bass+ headphones feature 8. 2 mm speaker drivers that produce big, pumping bass
Up to 12 hours of playtime: get up to 6 hours of playtime from the earbuds and recharge in the compact rechargeable charging case for another 6 hours (case holds approx. 6 hours of playtime battery)
Hands-free calling: enjoy convenient hands-free calling with mic and Bluetooth 4. 1, along with a closed-back acoustic design that keeps ambient noise out and great sound in via enhanced passive noise isolation
Secure fit: Designed for optimal fit, bass+ True wireless headphones feature stability Fin for secure fit
3 ear tip sizes for a custom fit: silicon ear caps come in 3 sizes for a better, customized fit
Usb charging cable included: the included USB charging cable makes it easy to keep your headphones powered up when you need them.


----------



## webvan

It doesn't look like it's been mentioned before but I just found out here https://www.lesnumeriques.com/casqu...es-premiers-intras-true-wireless-n137901.html that the Libratone Track AIR+ with ANC courtesy of the QC5121 will be available on Amazon during Prime Days for 199€...Tempted but since I can't find a detailed review I'm not sure it's a good idea


----------



## vstolpner

turbobb said:


> Going through Amazon's Prime Day Launches and while there are a few TWE's, I came across this Philips that hasn't been discussed yet:
> https://www.amazon.com/Philips-SHB4385-Wireless-Playtime-Charging/dp/B07P5JSZK5
> (I'm seeing the same price with current listing so not sure how this is a deal.)
> 
> ...


Yeah I saw those before too. Pretty sure they're not actually brand new. Have you tried doing a Google search for the model number or model name?


----------



## d3myz

turbobb said:


> Going through Amazon's Prime Day Launches and while there are a few TWE's, I came across this Philips that hasn't been discussed yet:
> https://www.amazon.com/Philips-SHB4385-Wireless-Playtime-Charging/dp/B07P5JSZK5
> (I'm seeing the same price with current listing so not sure how this is a deal.)
> 
> ...


Dang, those are some interesting looking TWS'. I don't understand the logic of launching a product that is BT 4.1.


----------



## vstolpner

webvan said:


> It doesn't look like it's been mentioned before but I just found out here https://www.lesnumeriques.com/casqu...es-premiers-intras-true-wireless-n137901.html that the Libratone Track AIR+ with ANC courtesy of the QC5121 will be available on Amazon during Prime Days for 199€...Tempted but since I can't find a detailed review I'm not sure it's a good idea



It is Amazon..... Can always return it. But at that price I'm pretty sure I'm going to skip. I'm looking forward to 1more's implementation of QCC51XX. They'll be hybrids too, not just dual dynamic


----------



## actorlife

d3myz said:


> @actorlife Doing the lord's work my friend  I just snagged them.


Damn Damn Damn. Enjoy them and of course let us know how ya like em. Bahahaha


----------



## turbobb

d3myz said:


> Dang, those are some interesting looking TWS'. I don't understand the logic of launching a product that is BT 4.1.





vstolpner said:


> Yeah I saw those before too. Pretty sure they're not actually brand new. Have you tried doing a Google search for the model number or model name?


I searched explicitly by the model number in conjunction with head-fi and since no hit, I posted but now just searched by model no. only and see that they are in fact old dating back to 2017 so the BT4.1 makes sense now. I got fooled by Amazon's product listing date of 6/25/19... 

To make it up, I found this interesting pair claiming 8 hours, physical buttosn (with Vol+/-) and aptX:
https://www.amazon.com/Back-Bay-Sweatproof-Headphones-Microphone/dp/B07SFJWRKS/

I would get them but I'm on self-imposed "no more TWE's for 2019" restriction... 
(insert "I guide others to a treasure I cannot possess..." meme here )


----------



## d3myz

actorlife said:


> Damn Damn Damn. Enjoy them and of course let us know how ya like em. Bahahaha


Will do, this is my 2nd pair. I repaired the rubber cover on my first pair with superglue. I believe it was you who suggest that, sorry can't remember, but it worked. No i'm interested to see if one of the audiohackers in the group can help me figure out how to get a replacement chipset or add AAC and or Aptx to the 359s.


----------



## d3myz

turbobb said:


> I searched explicitly by the model number in conjunction with head-fi and since no hit, I posted but now just searched by model no. only and see that they are in fact old dating back to 2017 so the BT4.1 makes sense now. I got fooled by Amazon's product listing date of 6/25/19...
> 
> To make it up, I found this interesting pair claiming 8 hours, physical buttosn (with Vol+/-) and aptX:
> https://www.amazon.com/Back-Bay-Sweatproof-Headphones-Microphone/dp/B07SFJWRKS/
> ...


I saw that too. I was looking at some of the TWS' on there after you mentioned these. That Prime Day Launch moniker is deceiving. Boo!


----------



## vstolpner

d3myz said:


> Will do, this is my 2nd pair. I repaired the rubber cover on my first pair with superglue. I believe it was you who suggest that, sorry can't remember, but it worked. No i'm interested to see if one of the audiohackers in the group can help me figure out how to get a replacement chipset or add AAC and or Aptx to the 359s.



The 359 already does AAC.....

But I'm not sure that replacing the chipset make any sense since each one is tuned specifically to the acoustic properties of the chamber/housing as well as the driver. Well.... At least any pair that would be featured here should be anyway....


----------



## d3myz

vstolpner said:


> The 359 already does AAC.....
> 
> But I'm not sure that replacing the chipset make any sense since each one is tuned specifically to the acoustic properties of the chamber/housing as well as the driver. Well.... At least any pair that would be featured here should be anyway....


I'll have to double check, but when I was forcing AAC and aptX on my mac, There's a dev tool that allows me to see the codec and monitor the bit rates etc. and both times I looked while using the 359s it was using SBC.


----------



## d3myz

turbobb said:


> I searched explicitly by the model number in conjunction with head-fi and since no hit, I posted but now just searched by model no. only and see that they are in fact old dating back to 2017 so the BT4.1 makes sense now. I got fooled by Amazon's product listing date of 6/25/19...
> 
> To make it up, I found this interesting pair claiming 8 hours, physical buttosn (with Vol+/-) and aptX:
> https://www.amazon.com/Back-Bay-Sweatproof-Headphones-Microphone/dp/B07SFJWRKS/
> ...


Those are the exact same form factor as the MPOW T5, and Tranya T1 pro


----------



## vstolpner

d3myz said:


> I'll have to double check, but when I was forcing AAC and aptX on my mac, There's a dev tool that allows me to see the codec and monitor the bit rates etc. and both times I looked while using the 359s it was using SBC.



Just double checked again - using AAC on my Galaxy S8. 

I've heard that some AAC implementations only work on iPhone - maybe this is a reverse of that?


----------



## actorlife (Jul 12, 2019)

vstolpner said:


> The 359 already does AAC.....
> 
> But I'm not sure that replacing the chipset make any sense since each one is tuned specifically to the acoustic properties of the chamber/housing as well as the driver. Well.... At least any pair that would be featured here should be anyway....



Yep AAC was confirmed by one or two of the guys here. I don't own anything Apple, so I can't check. My android box might have aac cause movies sound great. Anyway I can check on my android box? Hopefully Anbes will release something soon with aptx since the 359 is sold out almost everwhere. I think it's their best seller for them.


----------



## RobinFood

vstolpner said:


> Haven't heard of it... Do you have pictures/link?
> 
> And I know there's also the BT20(S)/Fostex+IEM pairings but that doesn't count due to their size. In my opinion anyway



Here they are...

https://www.e-earphone.jp/shop/shopdetail.html?brandcode=000000209236&search=kong+x&sort=price_desc

A balanced armature and a 10 mm dynamic driver. They were pretty bass heavy but still had decent mids and extended highs.
They got really loud. The plastic they are made of was really cheap though.
They are pretty old now, so only used SBS and AAC. They are big, but the case is HUGE.
In the pictures you can use that carabiner clip as a reference.
It doesn't fit pockets. Not even huge clown pockets.


----------



## actorlife

RobinFood said:


> Here they are...
> 
> https://www.e-earphone.jp/shop/shopdetail.html?brandcode=000000209236&search=kong+x&sort=price_desc
> 
> ...



Those look like army tanks. I bet if a car or truck rolled over them they'd be fine. Hopefully the SQ is great.


----------



## Luchyres

For those of you at home keeping track, here are my updates 

Tranya T3 are going back - I can detect a very very faint metal resonance on some songs when volume is 2/3 or higher on my pair - and they are prone to position-based cut-outs. The bass kicks the butt of the Anbes, but the issue for me is that the mids are recessed but the highs seem very harsh to me when you turn up the volume. In the end, they're pretty great, but the Anbes are a better all-rounder for me for now. 

Otherwise, my bet (and therefore money) is on the Sony WF-1000XM3 - I ordered on Amazon right when they were listed - so I'll let ya'll know when I get 'em.


----------



## vstolpner

RobinFood said:


> Here they are...
> 
> https://www.e-earphone.jp/shop/shopdetail.html?brandcode=000000209236&search=kong+x&sort=price_desc
> 
> ...


Oh wow, they're more like BT20/Fostex.... But look really cool!


----------



## FYLegend

vstolpner said:


> If the BT5.0 S60 is anything like the S80 (Motivation), then at least you can rest assured that connectivity will be just fine.
> I didn't find them the best, but very similar to mifo O5. Ironically Anbes 359 still have the best connectivity


The UFO has very stable connection, yes. Very rarely the left bud will drop out and immediately reconnect, it seems to happen more with my laptop than my phone. B9Scrambler said the connection of the S60 BT5.0 is more stable but disconnects on a laptop. What's holding me back is that Astrotec might release another run with a newer chip or S80 with a Type C case soon.



actorlife said:


> Yep AAC was confirmed by one or two of the guys here. I don't own anything Apple, so I can't check. My android box might have aac cause movies sound great. Anyway I can check on my android box? Hopefully Anbes will release something soon with aptx since the 359 is sold out almost everwhere. I think it's their best seller for them.


Just as you mention that they're sold out I start to see the listings disappear. Looks like they're endangered of extinction! The seller seems reluctant to refund but offered me discount on future purchase, but I don't want another Coolhere or rebrand if it ends up defective again. They said they couldn't get back to me in time to say that the product might be under a different brand, and that it might have been damaged during shipping (...).

Anbes Official still has them listed but has not yet replied to my question whether the product is a rebrand or not. It seems like the same person in the message center though...


----------



## vstolpner

FYLegend said:


> The UFO has very stable connection, yes. Very rarely the left bud will drop out and immediately reconnect, it seems to happen more with my laptop than my phone. B9Scrambler said the connection of the S60 BT5.0 is more stable but disconnects on a laptop. What's holding me back is that Astrotec might release another run with a newer chip or S80 with a Type C case soon.



I did hear of both changes coming from Astrotec, I believe sometime August was the expected release for the new S60.

If I'm not mistaken the mifo O4 will use a Knowles BA. Might be a good alternative


----------



## FYLegend (Jul 12, 2019)

vstolpner said:


> I did hear of both changes coming from Astrotec, I believe sometime August was the expected release for the new S60.
> 
> If I'm not mistaken the mifo O4 will use a Knowles BA. Might be a good alternative


August would be the next batch of S80 but they didn't mention any updates about a new S60.

Mifo O4 uses "hybrid moving coil" dynamic driver. Shanling's TWS will have the option of either Knowles BA or graphene DD.

O4 has been out since June in Thailand but haven't seen any listings yet.


----------



## RobinFood

vstolpner said:


> Oh wow, they're more like BT20/Fostex.... But look really cool!



The ear hook part was removable. The plastic is made of though felt like plastic-cup plastic.
I am not sure they are durable...or practical...but they sounded alright, maybe one of the best when they came out, if you like heavy bass.


----------



## hifi80sman

d3myz said:


> IMO the MPOW T5 is hands down the best i've used. I also have the 359's.


Agree.  In this case, cVc 8.0 actually means something.


----------



## d3myz

vstolpner said:


> Just double checked again - using AAC on my Galaxy S8.
> 
> I've heard that some AAC implementations only work on iPhone - maybe this is a reverse of that?


I was able to get AAC working via my Mac. sounds even better now.


----------



## Bartig

d3myz said:


> Those are the exact same form factor as the MPOW T5, and Tranya T1 pro


No they are not. These are clearly rebrands from the Anomoibuds Capsule TWS, which are excellent and can be had for around 20 dollar.


----------



## d3myz

Bartig said:


> No they are not. These are clearly rebrands from the Anomoibuds Capsule TWS, which are excellent and can be had for around 20 dollar.


Could be, same charging chage, but the housing is exactly like the Tranya T1 Pro and T5


----------



## SilverEars

Are the TW mostly dynamic driver based?  If so, one thing that would make the most difference for dynamic drivers are lots of power to control the driver much better, and quicker.  I get a sense that in order to save battery, the amps inside the TW earpieces are likely weak-sauce amps.  That would make the most significant difference first, the amping.  

That's the big caveat with the TW, not being able to have control over what to amp the drivers with.


----------



## vstolpner

FYLegend said:


> August would be the next batch of S80 but they didn't mention any updates about a new S60.
> 
> Mifo O4 uses "hybrid moving coil" dynamic driver. Shanling's TWS will have the option of either Knowles BA or graphene DD.
> 
> O4 has been out since June in Thailand but haven't seen any listings yet.




Oh I thought mifo did BA as well, my mistake. Well then the Shanling. To be honest I thought they were just rebrands like the TFZ X1/X1E.



d3myz said:


> I was able to get AAC working via my Mac. sounds even better now.



Congrats! 
I did find SBC to AAC does improve things in all TWS earphones I've tried so far.



SilverEars said:


> Are the TW mostly dynamic driver based?  If so, one thing that would make the most difference for dynamic drivers are lots of power to control the driver much better, and quicker.  I get a sense that in order to save battery, the amps inside the TW earpieces are likely weak-sauce amps.  That would make the most significant difference first, the amping.
> 
> That's the big caveat with the TW, not being able to have control over what to amp the drivers with.



Most Bluetooth earphones use the same SOC for connectivity, DAC, and amp. This is why you get audible noise floors and such. Especially in TWS earphones, there just isn't enough space, and most people would find the short battery life unacceptable.


----------



## riodgarp

Judge Buff said:


> I’ve found that KZ’s eartips seal better for me with most IEMs. My new Mifo o5 pros are no different. They definitely sound “cleaner” than the stock tips to my ears.


did you feels like you're swimming or something similiar using kz's eartips with mifo o5 pro?


vstolpner said:


> I use the mifo eartips with it as well. Since they sit quite shallow, I find they need a larger eartip. Whereas my Anbes 359 sit deeper, so a smaller eartip is sufficient.


nah I have tried largest one, not fits well as I'm using others eartips


----------



## srinivasvignesh

hifi80sman said:


> Agree.  In this case, cVc 8.0 actually means something.



Encouraging. Have you used these in  noisy environments? What is the most reliable place to get the mpow t5?


----------



## d3myz

srinivasvignesh said:


> Encouraging. Have you used these in  noisy environments? What is the most reliable place to get the mpow t5?


I've used them in noisy enviroments around loud tv and crazy kids, but not out in the city etc. I got mine on amazon.


----------



## srinivasvignesh

Luchyres said:


> For those of you at home keeping track, here are my updates
> 
> Tranya T3 are going back - I can detect a very very faint metal resonance on some songs when volume is 2/3 or higher on my pair - and they are prone to position-based cut-outs. The bass kicks the butt of the Anbes, but the issue for me is that the mids are recessed but the highs seem very harsh to me when you turn up the volume. In the end, they're pretty great, but the Anbes are a better all-rounder for me for now.
> 
> Otherwise, my bet (and therefore money) is on the Sony WF-1000XM3 - I ordered on Amazon right when they were listed - so I'll let ya'll know when I get 'em.



Great. Looking forward to your impressions. It would be great if you can include impressions on call quality, especially from noisy environments.


----------



## DigDub

d3myz said:


> I've actually had to buy the large, medium and medium smalls, to find the right size. My IEMs fit a lot differently than the TWS'. I go back a forth between the MS and M depending on the earbud.


Fitted some spinfit cp350 on the t5. Sounds pretty good as well and able to get a good fit.


----------



## turbobb

DigDub said:


> Fitted some spinfit cp350 on the t5. Sounds pretty good as well and able to get a good fit.



Precisely the combo I used when I got 'em last year, just too bad the connection issues were so bad.

Thx to @hifi80sman for taking another chance on the reissued model, looks like they've resolved the connectivity issues.


----------



## d3myz

DigDub said:


> Fitted some spinfit cp350 on the t5. Sounds pretty good as well and able to get a good fit.


Dang, it doesn't look like I can get any of these for less than $20. Thinking about the cp360's ever tried those? they look a bit deeper.


----------



## DigDub

turbobb said:


> Precisely the combo I used when I got 'em last year, just too bad the connection issues were so bad.
> 
> Thx to @hifi80sman for taking another chance on the reissued model, looks like they've resolved the connectivity issues.


I believe they have resolved the connectivity issues now. Mine has rock solid connection even in places where my other tws buds have problems.


----------



## DigDub

d3myz said:


> Dang, it doesn't look like I can get any of these for less than $20. Thinking about the cp360's ever tried those? they look a bit deeper.


I think the cp360 should work too.


----------



## Caipirina

hifi80sman said:


> Agree.  In this case, cVc 8.0 actually means something.



what is this CVC? I recall trying to google that long time ago, not finding anything and ended up dismissing it as a Chinese ad copy fluke .. like '5D'


----------



## Caipirina

webvan said:


> It doesn't look like it's been mentioned before but I just found out here https://www.lesnumeriques.com/casqu...es-premiers-intras-true-wireless-n137901.html that the Libratone Track AIR+ with ANC courtesy of the QC5121 will be available on Amazon during Prime Days for 199€...Tempted but since I can't find a detailed review I'm not sure it's a good idea



How is this not getting more traction? Wouldn't this be the first QC5121 ANC TWE out in the wild? 
Found this article in English, it also links to a press release 

They look funky  

 

From that press release 
"TRACK Air+ is available from 15th July and will be sold exclusively, for a time limited period, on Amazon retailing at a highly-competitive £179. The first 400 customers will also receive a free Libratone COIL charging plate, which will retail at £34. For further product information visit www.libratone.com or Amazon.co.uk/Libratone"

Reminds me how last year I pretty blindly jumped on the Sony SP700N with 'anc' for 199€ and ended up regretting it ...   in this case I will wait maybe for the next bunch of QC5121 buds .. or the Bose 700 earbuds ... or at least some in depth reviews


----------



## hifi80sman

turbobb said:


> Precisely the combo I used when I got 'em last year, just too bad the connection issues were so bad.
> 
> Thx to @hifi80sman for taking another chance on the reissued model, looks like they've resolved the connectivity issues.


Apparently, according to some Russian review site posted a few pages back, there were 3 total revisions, so it looks like the version Amazon is selling is the most recent iteration.  So far, so good.  Completely happy, especially for the price.  Definitely better than many name brand mid-rangers, not to mention the call quality is top-notch.


----------



## hifi80sman

Caipirina said:


> what is this CVC? I recall trying to google that long time ago, not finding anything and ended up dismissing it as a Chinese ad copy fluke .. like '5D'


https://www.qualcomm.com/solutions/voice-and-music/features/cvc-noise-cancellation-technology


----------



## Caipirina

hifi80sman said:


> https://www.qualcomm.com/solutions/voice-and-music/features/cvc-noise-cancellation-technology



Thank you! So, cVc is more related to phone calls / call quality? No wonder that this was never more on my radar ...


----------



## srinivasvignesh

Caipirina said:


> Thank you! So, cVc is more related to phone calls / call quality? No wonder that this was never more on my radar ...



But bear in mind that a lot of manufacturers claim CVC ratings, but have no real impact in daily use. Just a word of caution.


----------



## Caipirina

srinivasvignesh said:


> But bear in mind that a lot of manufacturers claim CVC ratings, but have no real impact in daily use. Just a word of caution.



Good that I absolutely detest phone calls  I order all my IEM without mic .. no one dare disturb my music listening


----------



## webvan

Caipirina said:


> How is this not getting more traction? Wouldn't this be the first QC5121 ANC TWE out in the wild?
> Found this article in English, it also links to a press release
> 
> They look funky
> ...



Thanks for the additional link. I seem to remember a link here to a detailed preview where they did say that ANC worked well. The IPX rating is a plus over the Sony's for sure, as well as the price. They look a bit strange but the Sony's also stick out so...


----------



## d3myz

DigDub said:


> I believe they have resolved the connectivity issues now. Mine has rock solid connection even in places where my other tws buds have problems.


I second the connectivity, it's excellent.


----------



## SilverEars (Jul 13, 2019)

hifi80sman said:


> https://www.qualcomm.com/solutions/voice-and-music/features/cvc-noise-cancellation-technology


What I found really impressive lately was Bose NC 700 (their new flagship) headphone's microphone's noise filtering ability.  I saw a demo with a simulation of 75dB indoor crowd noisy environment, and the voice came through crystal clear!  Amazing feat, and I'm really curious if there is an iem system out that achieved such level of noise filtering.

This level of noise filtering performance is what I want in a TW or any headphone for calls.

So, high performance ANC, ambient noise filtering for calls, and IPX rating.


----------



## ggpete

Currently torn between qcy qs2 and anbes 359, any help please? Btw I don't really like the touch controls if anbes has these, it's kinda hard to adjust the headphone without accidentaly tapping the touch button.


----------



## 40760

ggpete said:


> Currently torn between qcy qs2 and anbes 359, any help please? Btw I don't really like the touch controls if anbes has these, it's kinda hard to adjust the headphone without accidentaly tapping the touch button.



Anbes 359 are push button controlled. Not touch.


----------



## ggpete (Jul 13, 2019)

palestofwhite said:


> Anbes 359 are push button controlled. Not touch.



That's great to know, kinda hard to see in the photos, thanks for chiming in. Also i see it can be hard to get the actual headphones, a lot of rebrands and I don't know anything about the quality of these.


----------



## actorlife

Z youtube guy recommended them. These tips any good? They are on sale: https://drop.com/buy/dekoni-bulletz...te&utm_source=impactradius&mode=shop_open&pc=


----------



## Bartig

ggpete said:


> Currently torn between qcy qs2 and anbes 359, any help please? Btw I don't really like the touch controls if anbes has these, it's kinda hard to adjust the headphone without accidentaly tapping the touch button.


Both sound great. The Anbes has a little more bass presence, the QCY sounds a bit more natural to me.


----------



## bronco1015

vstolpner said:


> I see you've also got the 359 - which TWE would you say has better call quality than 359?


I love my Anbes 359, but honestly for call quality, it's the worst! the mics pick up everything unfortunately. They're fine in a quiet room but for anything else, all i could hear was the noise E.G. other people talking, traffic etc. Same with my roommates pairs as well, so basing that off calls and recordings via 3 different pairs. I've also owned the QCY T1C, which also sounded great for music but not for calls, the PSB M4U TW1, Sennheiser MTW and the jabra 65T. Only TWS i own currently are the MTW and Anbes 359, with the new Sonys on preorder.


----------



## mikp

someone wanted hybrid driver?
https://aviot.jp/product/te-bd21f/
-


----------



## vstolpner

mikp said:


> someone wanted hybrid driver?
> https://aviot.jp/product/te-bd21f/
> -



Oh wow those are great! They look a little Frankenstein-ish but still really small!

Any idea how much they are? And how to get them in US/Canada?


----------



## mikp

vstolpner said:


> Oh wow those are great! They look a little Frankenstein-ish but still really small!
> 
> Any idea how much they are? And how to get them in US/Canada?



they will probably show up here, I have bookmarked that site since they have a good collection of tws


----------



## jant71 (Jul 13, 2019)

Some new ides/attempts... Anyone for bone conduction TW. Sorry, no noise cancelling here. 






Worried about size?? These come in a Chapstick size case and are slightly more than a gram each...





Also, the first? review on the AT... https://translate.google.com/transl...eview/article/201907/12/3508.html&prev=search


----------



## vstolpner

jant71 said:


> Some new ides/attempts... Anyone for bone conduction TW. Sorry, no noise cancelling here.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Do you have links to go with the pictures? 

But man, those tiny ones - I'd be do worried I'd lose them! In my ear probably too!


----------



## assassin10000

jant71 said:


> Worried about size?? These come in a Chapstick size case and are slightly more than a gram each...



Neat. What are they?


----------



## jant71

assassin10000 said:


> Neat. What are they?



Just some stuff from Potafes... https://www.phileweb.com/news/d-av/201907/13/47939.html


----------



## clerkpalmer

Preordered the klipsch several weeks ago based upon positive sq reviews even though they look dastardly to me. Still haven’t shipped. No idea what’s going on. Called klipsch and customer service is a voicemail. Not starting off on the right foot. Seems like they are delayed further. Originally slated for “spring 2019”.


----------



## hifi80sman

clerkpalmer said:


> Preordered the klipsch several weeks ago based upon positive sq reviews even though they look dastardly to me. Still haven’t shipped. No idea what’s going on. Called klipsch and customer service is a voicemail. Not starting off on the right foot. Seems like they are delayed further. Originally slated for “spring 2019”.


If this is any indication, Amazon has them for pre-order with a release date of 12/31/2019.  Ouch.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07QXLQT34/


----------



## hifi80sman (Jul 14, 2019)

These look interesting.  Anyone try them yet?

EDIT:  Fixed link.


----------



## FYLegend

ok, so Anbes Official has told me they sell Anbes brand, but I still have my doubts since the person has the same name as the Audiocart store. The store "Anbes 3C" is selling rebrands be it Letscom or Coolhere, although nobody's complaining about channel imbalance so it looks like I got a lemon...

Regardless, the volume adjustment on the rebrand is annoying - because you need to hold to change volume the drivers sometimes flex, and you can barely hear or see whether you've held it long enough for the volume to change (on my phone it beeps very faintly, on my laptop there is no beep at all). Hold it too long and the earbuds turn off, hold it too short and your music is paused. Makes me wish there was no volume adjustment to begin with.



hifi80sman said:


> These look interesting.  Anyone try them yet?


The link doesn't work, but awaiting their arrival next week! I've seen some mixed reception on the regular version, though I got the Oluv edition.


----------



## Caipirina

Quick double trigger pull on amazon before the prime day chaos starts. 

The first ones remind me of the Anbes 359 case. So, let’s see. The 3star rating is based on one disgruntled review saying ‘the buds are great, but the case sucks and the instructions are English/Chinese Only’ 
Oh, and a 3€ coupon knocked them to 16.99 

 

The others come in a unique metal case and while the reviews feel fake, the photos and videos show that these are really tiny... made me curious. 

Will see by Friday


----------



## FYLegend (Jul 15, 2019)

Thoughts on these? I tried the Firefly briefly a while back. It was nice that it had type C and a hearthrough option but SBC just didn't sound that good.

Looks like this is an upgraded version although there's no info on codecs: (EDIT: They have confirmed to me it does indeed support SBC + AAC)
https://store.jabees.com/collection...system-plus-qi-enabled-wireless-charging-case

The Jabees Beeing has Qi charging + Type C but no hearthrough... It does say on the site that it has AAC though.


----------



## FastAndClean

https://crinacle.com/2019/07/14/best-sounding-true-wireless-earphones-2019/


----------



## Caipirina

FastAndClean said:


> https://crinacle.com/2019/07/14/best-sounding-true-wireless-earphones-2019/


Sony leading a list again. A pattern emerges...


----------



## FastAndClean

Caipirina said:


> Sony leading a list again. A pattern emerges...


you think he shilling?


----------



## webvan

Caipirina said:


> Sony leading a list again. A pattern emerges...


Given how good the WF1000mk1 sound I find this believable, throw in the apparently stellar ANC of the latest model and it gets exciting...


----------



## FunctionalDoc (Jul 14, 2019)

I debating to go with a  $50 model:
Mpow T5

More expensive ones:
1: Nuarl NT01AX  $160
2: Jabra Elite Active 65t   $169.93
3: Sony WF-1000XM3   $230

I have nice IEM's:
Fearless S8F = 8BA's
Sony MDR ex800st DD driver 

MY number first priority is great sound and like tight bass and sub bass but it must not bleed into the mid range.
 I don't like that the Sony's and Jabra don't support the higher bit rate codec's.

I read Crinacle's  review and I respect his opinion but Sony doesn't have much water  and sweat resistance compared to the Nuarl .

The Aviot TE-BD21f-pnk looks very interesting and their quality looks top notch

I want something that has easy controls to pause , change the volume and be decent for an occasional call ,

Love here your thoughts on these choices and other recommendations  . Definitely a series of comprises

Thanks .


----------



## SilverEars (Jul 14, 2019)

webvan said:


> Given how good the WF1000mk1 sound I find this believable, throw in the apparently stellar ANC of the latest model and it gets exciting...


Well, the measured response looks pretty good, I give it that.  What was a surprise to me was the ranking of Galaxy buds, and the graph.  I expected the graph to be a lot worse.  That graph can't be based on the stock tips, because the stock tips has a big flaw, the tips had a very narrow bore or sound outlet hole that significantly reduces the bass.  I had to change the tips to a much wider bore to get sufficient bass out of it.  Also, the bass sounded a bit too loose for my taste as well (but, this is probably be the thing about TW's general lack of sufficient internal amping to provide a strong drive on the dynamic drivers).

At least looking at the measurements, I think tonally, that response curve of the Jabra is my ideal target (it looks similar to another iem that is techically better that sounded highly transparent to me).  I understand these TW can lose on technicalities other than the tonal response.


----------



## actorlife (Jul 15, 2019)

Edit


----------



## Alphasoixante

vstolpner said:


> They're called Astrotec Motivation in the US. And they're on a deal!
> https://www.amazon.com/Astrotec-Motivation-Beryllium-Headphones-Sweatproof/dp/B07SBVXG26/
> See my signature for my review.



I just read your review and I thought it was great. I'm also having trouble finding a tip that gets a good seal -- I've also tried my beloved Final Audio E tips to no avail. On which tip did you eventually settle?

I do agree that it has a great sound for the price,. When I press lightly I can get a good seal and was able to get a glimpse of the goodness.  Another question: I'm finding them to be a bit sibilant in the upper mids and treble (not horrible, but def noticeable). Do you know if they smooth out after a bit of use?


----------



## clerkpalmer

hifi80sman said:


> If this is any indication, Amazon has them for pre-order with a release date of 12/31/2019.  Ouch.
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07QXLQT34/


If true unacceptable because I paid by PayPal so they have my money!


----------



## FunctionalDoc

clerkpalmer said:


> If true unacceptable because I paid by PayPal so they have my money!



You can file a dispute with PayPal and get refund since they have not delivered in the promised time frame.


----------



## Caipirina

FastAndClean said:


> you think he shilling?


No, I purposely kept my comment vaguely neutral  also, have not listened to the latest entry yet. So, what can I say. 

Was just my first reaction. And I still feel buyer’s remorse from those SP700N


----------



## vstolpner

Alphasoixante said:


> I just read your review and I thought it was great. I'm also having trouble finding a tip that gets a good seal -- I've also tried my beloved Final Audio E tips to no avail. On which tip did you eventually settle?
> 
> I do agree that it has a great sound for the price,. When I press lightly I can get a good seal and was able to get a glimpse of the goodness.  Another question: I'm finding them to be a bit sibilant in the upper mids and treble (not horrible, but def noticeable). Do you know if they smooth out after a bit of use?



Afraid I settled on a cardboard box in the end - returned them recently.

Sibilance didn't smooth out in the end, although it wasn't very strong to begin with, only on some tracks.

My first two choices are still Anbes 359 and mifo O5 professional.


----------



## Caipirina

actorlife said:


> I think it's time you did some reviews after acquiring over 15 TWS.



Eeeeeeeks! someone is counting!!!!

Well, I did the ‘rejects’ mini reviews. And I really want to write more about the ZagZog I got from amazon and only briefly mentioned as ‘Tranya T3’ adjacent. Did a 26K run with them today and rock solid connection (besides really good sound) ... just did not get around for some proper A/B time.


----------



## actorlife

Caipirina said:


> Eeeeeeeks! someone is counting!!!!
> 
> Well, I did the ‘rejects’ mini reviews. And I really want to write more about the ZagZog I got from amazon and only briefly mentioned as ‘Tranya T3’ adjacent. Did a 26K run with them today and rock solid connection (besides really good sound) ... just did not get around for some proper A/B time.


What about a top 10 fav so far.


----------



## Caipirina

actorlife said:


> What about a top 10 fav so far.


Yeah. Need to work on something like that. But so hard to pick a favorite kid 

Also, as my ears have grown old, they have become less analytical. I can only do categories like ‘makes me smile’ ... or not.


----------



## actorlife

Caipirina said:


> Yeah. Need to work on something like that. But so hard to pick a favorite kid
> 
> Also, as my ears have grown old, they have become less analytical. I can only do categories like ‘makes me smile’ ... or not.


I believe in you. You can do it. Are you going to check out the qcr?


----------



## Caipirina

actorlife said:


> Are you going to check out the qcr?



Sounds like a hype train I missed?


----------



## actorlife

Caipirina said:


> Sounds like a hype train I missed?


I just found them randomly while looking for those fun ones you posted. Damn budget. Must not spend.


----------



## Caipirina

actorlife said:


> I just found them randomly while looking for those fun ones you posted. Damn budget. Must not spend.


Oh, was that second link of yours. 

For time-y reasons I can’t do AliExpress anymore. So, that went into ignore


----------



## FastAndClean

Caipirina said:


> For time-y reasons I can’t do AliExpress anymore.


"Thank you Lord"
Your wallet


----------



## actorlife

Caipirina said:


> Oh, was that second link of yours.
> 
> For time-y reasons I can’t do AliExpress anymore. So, that went into ignore


Budget blues eh? or wifey beat down?$?


----------



## magi44ken

bronco1015 said:


> I love my Anbes 359, but honestly for call quality, it's the worst! the mics pick up everything unfortunately. They're fine in a quiet room but for anything else, all i could hear was the noise E.G. other people talking, traffic etc. Same with my roommates pairs as well, so basing that off calls and recordings via 3 different pairs. I've also owned the QCY T1C, which also sounded great for music but not for calls, the PSB M4U TW1, Sennheiser MTW and the jabra 65T. Only TWS i own currently are the MTW and Anbes 359, with the new Sonys on preorder.



Thanks for your thoughts.  From your list of TWS, which one have the best mic call quality in a not quiet environment like in a mall, coffee shop, etc.


----------



## Alphasoixante

Has anyone heard anything about these HELM TWEs? 

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07RN1C61P/ref=cm_sw_em_r_mt_dp_U_Wq4kDbFY17GAN


----------



## jant71 (Jul 14, 2019)

Alphasoixante said:


> Has anyone heard anything about these HELM TWEs?
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07RN1C61P/ref=cm_sw_em_r_mt_dp_U_Wq4kDbFY17GAN



Here is the site page... https://helmaudio.com/products/helm-true-wireless-5-0-headphones

They seem to be into SQ as they have a amp and Planar headphone coming. Interesting price point at neither cheap nor expensive so hard to tell from that.


----------



## Caipirina

actorlife said:


> Budget blues eh? or wifey beat down?$?



Only during the summer am I at my AliExpress/AliPay approved address ... that simple (and maybe better that way) 




FastAndClean said:


> "Thank you Lord"
> Your wallet



LOL
Well, there’s still some time for Amazon


----------



## vstolpner

Caipirina said:


> LOL
> Well, there’s still some time for Amazon



*Ominous tone*
And the Prime Days are coming....


----------



## Caipirina

vstolpner said:


> *Ominous tone*
> And the Prime Days are coming....


This might be a silly / ignorant question, but a quick look over upcoming deals shows “exclusively for prime members” in pretty much all offers. Anything for not primers?


----------



## vstolpner

Caipirina said:


> This might be a silly / ignorant question, but a quick look over upcoming deals shows “exclusively for prime members” in pretty much all offers. Anything for not primers?



Are you sure it's not early for prime? 
Most aren't exclusive for prime, just early access for prime.

You can always apply for free prime membership, or do a monthly membership


----------



## RobinFood (Jul 14, 2019)

vstolpner said:


> Are you sure it's not early for prime?
> Most aren't exclusive for prime, just early access for prime.
> 
> You can always apply for free prime membership, or do a monthly membership



A month is probably all you need anyways.


----------



## vstolpner

RobinFood said:


> A month is probably all you need anyways.



Pretty much. A week to order and receive everything, a week or two to test it out, and last week to return what you didn't like


----------



## hongky

Anyone can give comparison between Nillkin Go & Mpow T5

TIA


----------



## vstolpner

Woot got my Tranya T3's today! First impressions are great! Much bigger but more comfortable than the Anbes 359. Mids seem a bit recessed but that's just from 5 minutes with them. Running burn in now.

Will post more impressions soon.

Oh and Tiso i4 are "in transit" locally, so hopefully will get those soon!!

Exciting week for my ears


----------



## MrBiN (Jul 15, 2019)

Hello everyone, I founded a next version of Tiso i4 called "Tiso i5" with a better charging case, so anyone in here have tried it, please make a review about it. Thanks






https://aliexpress.com/item/3304493...aterproof-sports-headset-with-dual-microphone


----------



## vstolpner

MrBiN said:


> Hello everyone, I founded a next version of Tiso i4 called "Tiso i5" with a better charging case, so anyone in here have tried it, please make a review about it. Thanks
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Yeah I saw that as well. Might be giving that a shot, depends how I like the i4.

But I've seen a few other brands put out that case and earphones as well - wonder if those are rebrands or just a generic case that's available to other manufacturers as well.


----------



## d3myz

vstolpner said:


> Woot got my Tranya T3's today! First impressions are great! Much bigger but more comfortable than the Anbes 359. Mids seem a bit recessed but that's just from 5 minutes with them. Running burn in now.
> 
> Will post more impressions soon.
> 
> ...


What do you do for your burn in?


----------



## vstolpner

d3myz said:


> What do you do for your burn in?



Headphone Burn In album on Spotify. Basically I try and hit some 10 hours of about 90% noise, with the rest taken up by different sweeps, etc.

And another 10-20 hours of regular listening.


----------



## AudiophileAri

jant71 said:


> Here is the site page... https://helmaudio.com/products/helm-true-wireless-5-0-headphones
> 
> They seem to be into SQ as they have a amp and Planar headphone coming. Interesting price point at neither cheap nor expensive so hard to tell from that.



Let me know if anyone has questions on the HELM gear.


----------



## Bartig (Jul 15, 2019)

bronco1015 said:


> I love my Anbes 359, but honestly for call quality, it's the worst! the mics pick up everything unfortunately. They're fine in a quiet room but for anything else, all i could hear was the noise E.G. other people talking, traffic etc. Same with my roommates pairs as well, so basing that off calls and recordings via 3 different pairs. I've also owned the QCY T1C, which also sounded great for music but not for calls, the PSB M4U TW1, Sennheiser MTW and the jabra 65T. Only TWS i own currently are the MTW and Anbes 359, with the new Sonys on preorder.


You think the Anbes is the worst for calls? Try the Bluedio Hi! 



MrBiN said:


> Hello everyone, I founded a next version of Tiso i4 called "Tiso i5" with a better charging case, so anyone in here have tried it, please make a review about it. Thanks
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I have them coming my way, will write a review on my site/ a summary here once I receive them.


----------



## Wuzzle (Jul 15, 2019)

Caipirina said:


> Speaking of ‘piling up’ , today the cheapo XG-12 arrived. Someone here recommended them. And they are indeed pretty nice, ESPECIALLY considering that I only paid 10$ after coupon. And they work and are a smidge above average in the sound department. Actually pretty good. But here is a tricky thing: no way to tell which is L/R, there are no markings on the buds. There are markings inside the case though, which makes me wonder if the l r channels are assigned depending from where you take it out? Has anyone who has them been able to decipher that part in the manual?



If you're still trying to figure it out, assuming the manual is accurate, double tapping the left side will go to the previous track, and doing the same on the right will go to the next track. It also says the Left is the main side, and tapping on the Left side will let you connect or end a call, while double tapping it will reject an incoming call.

The Tranya T3 gets a lot of love on here, and since the seller on Amazon won't ship here I can only get it off the Tranya site. I have over-ear headphones that I use day to day and I just don't see myself using TWEs much. US$55 is a not-insignificant amount to spend just to satisfy my curiosity. Should I?


----------



## tekwrx

Just picked up the MPOW T5 on Prime Day sale for $36. We'll see if they can replace my Tranya T3's


----------



## chinmie

Caipirina said:


> Speaking of ‘piling up’ , today the cheapo XG-12 arrived. Someone here recommended them. And they are indeed pretty nice, ESPECIALLY considering that I only paid 10$ after coupon. And they work and are a smidge above average in the sound department. Actually pretty good. But here is a tricky thing: no way to tell which is L/R, there are no markings on the buds. There are markings inside the case though, which makes me wonder if the l r channels are assigned depending from where you take it out? Has anyone who has them been able to decipher that part in the manual?



you can use this page to test the left and right one, then you can mark them for easier identification 

https://www.audiocheck.net/audiotests_stereo.php


----------



## MrBiN (Jul 15, 2019)

vstolpner said:


> Yeah I saw that as well. Might be giving that a shot, depends how I like the i4.
> 
> But I've seen a few other brands put out that case and earphones as well - wonder if those are rebrands or just a generic case that's available to other manufacturers as well.


Hope you like it, I looking forward for your review 



Bartig said:


> You think the Anbes is the worst for calls? Try the Bluedio Hi!
> 
> 
> I have them coming my way, will write a review on my site/ a summary here once I receive them.


I have read your website, it's so awesome . I don't know I can ask you to help me compare the comfortable between QCY QS1 and Tiso i4. I appreciate the comfortable. Thanks.


----------



## srinivasvignesh

tekwrx said:


> Just picked up the MPOW T5 on Prime Day sale for $36. We'll see if they can replace my Tranya T3's


+1.

Sadly, their marketing people didn't even care to correct the name from Bose to Mpow when they probably ripped off their material. Screen grab from MPOW T5 website


----------



## Bartig

MrBiN said:


> Hope you like it, I looking forward for your review
> 
> 
> I have read your website, it's so awesome . I don't know I can ask you to help me compare the comfortable between QCY QS1 and Tiso i4. I appreciate the comfortable. Thanks.


Thanks! 

Fit of course is very personal. The Tiso is somewhat smaller in your ear than the QS1, however, pressing the button needs force on the Tiso, making controlling them in your ear a little less comfortable than the QS1.


----------



## Bartig

srinivasvignesh said:


> +1.
> 
> Sadly, their marketing people didn't even care to correct the name from Bose to Mpow when they probably ripped off their material. Screen grab from MPOW T5 website


Oh my. Just ordered it for 60 euros on Amazon Germany. Bit expensive, but hey, still pretty cheap for a Bose.


----------



## DigDub (Jul 15, 2019)

And... the Aukey EP-T10 is in. Usb-c, wireless charging case, 7 hours battery life, touch controls, supports play/pause, volume control and skipping tracks. Supports aptx, aac and sbc, my Samsung S10 defaults to aac though, but I couldn't detect any difference between aptx and aac.


----------



## Bartig

DigDub said:


> And... the Aukey EP-T10 is in. Usb-c, wireless charging case, 7 hours battery life, touch controls, supports play/pause, volume control and skipping tracks. Supports aptx, aac and sbc, my Samsung S10 defaults to aac though, but I couldn't detect any difference between aptx and aac.


Looks neat. Yet something from your description is missing.


----------



## DigDub (Jul 15, 2019)

Bartig said:


> Looks neat. Yet something from your description is missing.


The sound is a very fun bassy sound with elevated highs. It reminds me somewhat of the qcy t1c sound signature. I'd have to let the earbuds and my brain burn in a bit before making further assessment, but I'm liking it so far.

A few nitpicking, can't seem to turn on and off manually, it auto powers off if there's no connection after 5 mins, but no way to power on manually, so have to bring the case along. No beep indication when using the touch controls.


----------



## billbishere

The more I listen to my 1more TWS the more I wonder why anyone would look else.  These are $99 - have some of the best connection tech made and they sound fantastic.  They were expert tuned and a lot of time was spent to make them rock solid.  They charge fast, hold battery well...  I couldn't be happier.  I have tested out teh Bose and Jabra and neither sounded as good as these imo.  Not to mention the Bose have a horrible lag on youtube.... You get NONE of that with the 1more.  

I just haven't seen anyone talk about them at all and for the price to performance I dont see anything better!


----------



## Soreniglio

I've talked to the chat customer service of Anbes Audiocart, and they assured me that they are legit Anbes coming...I'm still skeptical.


----------



## BigAund

Anyone know anything about the Libratone TRACK AIR+? It appears they are being released as part of Amazons prime days - seems an interesting prospect with wireless charging and noise cancelling.


----------



## clerkpalmer

BigAund said:


> Anyone know anything about the Libratone TRACK AIR+? It appears they are being released as part of Amazons prime days - seems an interesting prospect with wireless charging and noise cancelling.


I’m not finding them.  Do you have a link?


----------



## sway212

I'm looking for a pair of earphones which are like the Airpods in the sense that they don't completely go into your ear but rather sit on them. I'll be purchasing from Aliexpress. 

From the research I've done and from browsing this forum, I can see that the Sabbat X12 Pro are the best options for me. I don't particularly have any preferences besides that it should be the Airpods style really. I don't like them going into my ear and it makes my ear itch a lot. Oh and USB Type C for future proofing. 

Any other recommendations besides Sabbat X12 Pro?


----------



## d3myz

The Astrotec Momentum's are on sale on Amazon for $39.95 and an additional $5 off. for Prime Day.  https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07SBVXG26/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?smid=A3UF7NY0DZSF75&psc=1


----------



## chinmie

sway212 said:


> I'm looking for a pair of earphones which are like the Airpods in the sense that they don't completely go into your ear but rather sit on them. I'll be purchasing from Aliexpress.
> 
> From the research I've done and from browsing this forum, I can see that the Sabbat X12 Pro are the best options for me. I don't particularly have any preferences besides that it should be the Airpods style really. I don't like them going into my ear and it makes my ear itch a lot. Oh and USB Type C for future proofing.
> 
> Any other recommendations besides Sabbat X12 Pro?



Nillkin Go is not too isolating and for me personally is superior sounding to the X12, but it still have silicone tips, though not deep insertion. also it still has micro usb


----------



## igorneumann

Ever tried the foam tips?
They are more comfy than the rubber ones, for the cost of some isolation but still have better isolation than "airpod style"

Mind you that, for such weak amplifier you want every bit of the power it generates moving your eardrum, not leaking.



sway212 said:


> I'm looking for a pair of earphones which are like the Airpods in the sense that they don't completely go into your ear but rather sit on them. I'll be purchasing from Aliexpress.
> 
> From the research I've done and from browsing this forum, I can see that the Sabbat X12 Pro are the best options for me. I don't particularly have any preferences besides that it should be the Airpods style really. I don't like them going into my ear and it makes my ear itch a lot. Oh and USB Type C for future proofing.
> 
> Any other recommendations besides Sabbat X12 Pro?


----------



## sway212

igorneumann said:


> Ever tried the foam tips?
> They are more comfy than the rubber ones, for the cost of some isolation but still have better isolation than "airpod style"
> 
> Mind you that, for such weak amplifier you want every bit of the power it generates moving your eardrum, not leaking.


I've tried memory foam and it's always the same. The only earphones which I never had any issues with is the AKG ones which came with my Samsung Note 9 and they aren't too isolating. That's why I thought I would try going the Airpods route and giving it a shot.


----------



## sway212

chinmie said:


> Nillkin Go is not too isolating and for me personally is superior sounding to the X12, but it still have silicone tips, though not deep insertion. also it still has micro usb


Didn't look at those pairs. The only earphones I never had problems with was the AKG ones which came with my Note 9. I want to try something new like the Airpods style and see if they're better for my ears personally. Sound quality will be better on a more isolating pair, I can see that definitely but that's not my primary concern. Just something which is relaxing and comfortable for me, and has USB Type C for the future.


----------



## vstolpner

d3myz said:


> The Astrotec Momentum's are on sale on Amazon for $39.95 and an additional $5 off. for Prime Day.  https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07SBVXG26/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?smid=A3UF7NY0DZSF75&psc=1



That's a fantastic deal! If only I could get a good seal with them


----------



## BigAund

clerkpalmer said:


> I’m not finding them.  Do you have a link?



Here they are - Libratone 

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Libratone-...93&s=gateway&sprefix=libratone,aps,141&sr=8-3


----------



## clerkpalmer

BigAund said:


> Here they are - Libratone
> 
> https://www.amazon.co.uk/Libratone-Wireless-Bluetooth-Headphones-Cancellation-Black/dp/B07SWN7YNH/ref=sr_1_3?crid=1SRUMF619TSKT&keywords=libratone+track+&qid=1563189893&s=gateway&sprefix=libratone,aps,141&sr=8-3





BigAund said:


> Here they are - Libratone
> 
> Looks like uk only ? Boo hoo.


----------



## mikp

BigAund said:


> Anyone know anything about the Libratone TRACK AIR+? It appears they are being released as part of Amazons prime days - seems an interesting prospect with wireless charging and noise cancelling.



I would not test them,-plenty of bad reviews on jd.com
firmware just updated to support apt-x, and very limited control options. Can only select 1 control at a time with an app that also have bad reviews.


----------



## clerkpalmer

mikp said:


> I would not test them,-plenty of bad reviews on jd.com
> firmware just updated to support apt-x, and very limited control options. Can only select 1 control at a time with an app that also have bad reviews.


This appears to be a new model with anc. Seems interesting.


----------



## mikp

clerkpalmer said:


> This appears to be a new model with anc. Seems interesting.


it was released a month ago or so on jd.com


----------



## clerkpalmer

mikp said:


> it was released a month ago or so on jd.com


Gotcha. Thanks. Saved me 200.


----------



## webvan

The reviews here https://item.jd.com/100003423995.html as translated by Google appear excellent. Are we talking about the same device ?


----------



## billbishere (Jul 15, 2019)

Those knock off cheapos is throwing money in the toliet.  There is tech in these type of buds that's needs to have a decent RD with a big company or a complete re-label of a company who does have it.  The cheapo knockoffs all will be wonky in some way.  Mostly long term connection and battery.  Unless they have the Qualcomm connection technology them it should be a pass because that is the only constant in a strong TWS BT connection.

Even Bose TWS have the YouTube lag issue...  To think a 50 pair can nail what Bose didn't...  I just don't see it.


----------



## Bartig

billbishere said:


> Those knock off cheapos is throwing money in the toliet.  There is tech in these type of buds that's needs to have a decent RD with a big company or a complete re-label of a company who does have it.  The cheapo knockoffs all will be wonky in some way.  Mostly long term connection and battery.  Unless they have the Qualcomm connection technology them it should be a pass because that is the only constant in a strong TWS BT connection.
> 
> Even Bose TWS have the YouTube lag issue...  To think a 50 pair can nail what Bose didn't...  I just don't see it.


It's time to try the Anomoibuds Capsule then. At 20 dollar...

As with the Xiaomi Redmi Airdots, these provide stable Bluetooth connectivity and YouTube video synchronisation. The Capsule just sounds way more detailed and full.


----------



## vstolpner

billbishere said:


> Those knock off cheapos is throwing money in the toliet.  There is tech in these type of buds that's needs to have a decent RD with a big company or a complete re-label of a company who does have it.  The cheapo knockoffs all will be wonky in some way.  Mostly long term connection and battery.  Unless they have the Qualcomm connection technology them it should be a pass because that is the only constant in a strong TWS BT connection.
> 
> Even Bose TWS have the YouTube lag issue...  To think a 50 pair can nail what Bose didn't...  I just don't see it.



For the most part they don't have to. They grab off the shelf components that already have all that figured out. 

Bose and the likes can't differentiate on price, so they try and make something different - hence big budget R&D


----------



## actorlife

> I like the look of this case(4000 mah) with battery indication lights, aptx* and 7hr battery. One reviewer said he got 10hrs. So tempting someone please get these and review them:  https://m.aliexpress.com/item/33020529789.html?pid=808_0000_0101&spm=a2g0n.search-amp.list.33020529789&aff_trace_key=19d77fd312484d72b277210d4adb6b76-1556286654631-09060-cFxIVF6&aff_platform=msite&m_page_id=1452amp-d_otDLIEF4wdDxJ-



So anyone gonna try these? I mean great features and favorable reviews.


----------



## d3myz

actorlife said:


> So anyone gonna try these? I mean great features and favorable reviews.


Maybe if they had 10D sound, but they only have 9D sound.


----------



## falang

1more stylish true wireless have a $30 off prime deal going on right now.  Regular 99 on for 69.


----------



## d3myz

billbishere said:


> The more I listen to my 1more TWS the more I wonder why anyone would look else.  These are $99 - have some of the best connection tech made and they sound fantastic.  They were expert tuned and a lot of time was spent to make them rock solid.  They charge fast, hold battery well...  I couldn't be happier.  I have tested out teh Bose and Jabra and neither sounded as good as these imo.  Not to mention the Bose have a horrible lag on youtube.... You get NONE of that with the 1more.
> 
> I just haven't seen anyone talk about them at all and for the price to performance I dont see anything better!


How do they compare to the Tranya T3, Anbes 359, MPOW T5?


----------



## albau

falang said:


> 1more stylish true wireless have a $30 off prime deal going on right now.  Regular 99 on for 69.


For $70 on sale there could've been at least volume controls and USB-C, no?


----------



## falang

albau said:


> For $70 on sale there could've been at least volume controls and USB-C, no?


Amazon is powerful, but not that powerful that they could physically change a product while discounting it at the same time.

The 6.5 hour play time and aptx/aac support interests me.


----------



## vstolpner

falang said:


> 1more stylish true wireless have a $30 off prime deal going on right now.  Regular 99 on for 69.



That's their regular price on AliExpress. In fact I've seen them many times around $60 mark. Of course Amazon has free returns so there's that.

Though I'm holding out for their next gen TWS earphones.


----------



## hifi80sman

DigDub said:


> And... the Aukey EP-T10 is in. Usb-c, wireless charging case, 7 hours battery life, touch controls, supports play/pause, volume control and skipping tracks. Supports aptx, aac and sbc, my Samsung S10 defaults to aac though, but I couldn't detect any difference between aptx and aac.


I have those in my current stable of TWEs.  I like them, although I do wish they had a bit more sub-bass.  Other than that, the sound is great.  Also, calls perform well.


----------



## actorlife

d3myz said:


> Maybe if they had 10D sound, but they only have 9D sound.


You crack me up. I might have to get them then and if i do i won't be back on thread till Oct. I'm warning you. Wahahaha


----------



## billbishere

falang said:


> Amazon is powerful, but not that powerful that they could physically change a product while discounting it at the same time.
> 
> The 6.5 hour play time and aptx/aac support interests me.


I think these are fantastic.  Best connection on ANY bluetooth device I own, rock solid.  Most devices if I put my phone in my back pocket it would start to drop out, not with these.  and they also sound great, have nice clicky buttons on the backs so u dont push them in your ear.  aptx on android is the best going outside of aptxHD, just read something about that.  better than LDAC.  

anyway, the 1more's are really great.  I paid $80 on sale a couple weeks ago.


----------



## DigDub

hifi80sman said:


> I have those in my current stable of TWEs.  I like them, although I do wish they had a bit more sub-bass.  Other than that, the sound is great.  Also, calls perform well.


The connection on the Aukey is strong too, haven't encountered drops so far. Do you know if it is possible to power on and off the buds without the case?


----------



## billbishere

d3myz said:


> How do they compare to the Tranya T3, Anbes 359, MPOW T5?



I have compared against Bose, Sabbat e12, Anker Liberty Sound Core and the SoundPeats tws.  

I started with the Bose because overall I have had pretty good luck with Bose bluetooth for my mobile stuff and I am a big fan of having the Multi-Pairing with my devices.  However - the Bose were laggy on youtube and I watch a lot of YouTube so that was a no go...  It was so bad, it was also instant no matter what I did on every connection.  It was frustrating because they sounded the best out of the ones I tested.

I had connection issues with Sabbat...some weird stuff actually, like they were out of sync and then even connecting to the phone wasn't all that smooth, had to reset a couple times.  I didn't appear to be the only one.

The Anker had drop outs - a couple in a short period of time, didn't care for sound or fit either but...  dropouts.

The soundpeats were pretty good with connection in the short time I used them, they actually sound pretty good too but they don't stay in my ears at all so I didn't use them much.  I haven't returned them yet if anyone wants to buy them!  haha


That is my experience and sort of where I am coming from in my comments.  Till something changes my mind I will only be interested in TWS that has this technology as it's a full solution of connectivity for whatever product it's needed in for TWS.  So you don't have to depend on the headphone maker to reinvent the wheel and hope they get it right.  

https://www.qualcomm.com/solutions/voice-and-music/features/truewireless


----------



## hifi80sman

DigDub said:


> The connection on the Aukey is strong too, haven't encountered drops so far. Do you know if it is possible to power on and off the buds without the case?


Actually, no, I don't.


----------



## falang

vstolpner said:


> That's their regular price on AliExpress. In fact I've seen them many times around $60 mark. Of course Amazon has free returns so there's that.
> 
> Though I'm holding out for their next gen TWS earphones.



Really? Good to know that it's not a super deal. Just saw they don't have an IPX rating either. Also, it also says AA battery included  Huh?


----------



## hifi80sman (Jul 15, 2019)

On Prime Day sale for $39.99.  USB-C and wireless charging.  Someone grab them and let us all know!  

The look like a re-brand of the Anker Zolo Liberty, which I thought were pretty good (sound, fit), although the call quality was not good.


----------



## Soreniglio

I just bought QCY T2C on Amazon for 20 $, they're coming in a week or so.

If my Anbes are gonna be legit, I'll give the QCY to my mom, probably.


Did I make a good choice by buying them?


----------



## actorlife

hifi80sman said:


> On Prime Day sale for $39.99.  USB-C and wireless charging.  Someone grab them and let us all know!
> 
> The look like a re-brand of the Anker Zolo Liberty, which I thought were pretty good (sound, fit), although the call quality was not good.


Only 6 hr battery Bah.  8hr or more.


----------



## d3myz

billbishere said:


> I have compared against Bose, Sabbat e12, Anker Liberty Sound Core and the SoundPeats tws.
> 
> I started with the Bose because overall I have had pretty good luck with Bose bluetooth for my mobile stuff and I am a big fan of having the Multi-Pairing with my devices.  However - the Bose were laggy on youtube and I watch a lot of YouTube so that was a no go...  It was so bad, it was also instant no matter what I did on every connection.  It was frustrating because they sounded the best out of the ones I tested.
> 
> ...


The MPOW T5 has the QCC3020 chipset and has TrueWireless Stereo


----------



## billbishere

d3myz said:


> The MPOW T5 has the QCC3020 chipset and has TrueWireless Stereo


I see that - just looked it up.  That is impressive.  Well, guess I overlooked those.  Under $50 is pretty fantastic for that.  I am not thinking my ears would love that design tho, I need some sort of hook.


----------



## billbishere

You guys got me going down the TWS Rabbit Hole now... Has anyone seen these..

https://www.kickstarter.com/project...n-wrist-charging-hi-fi-earbuds?mnsid=mrmobile

Tested here


----------



## vstolpner

d3myz said:


> The MPOW T5 has the QCC3020 chipset and has TrueWireless Stereo



Is it True Wireless Stereo, or TWS Plus? From what I understand only TWS Plus does the individual connection to each earbud?


----------



## vstolpner

billbishere said:


> You guys got me going down the TWS Rabbit Hole now... Has anyone seen these..
> 
> https://www.kickstarter.com/project...n-wrist-charging-hi-fi-earbuds?mnsid=mrmobile
> 
> Tested here




Only from YouTube reviews. Unbox Therapy I believe did a review as well.


----------



## billbishere

vstolpner said:


> Is it True Wireless Stereo, or TWS Plus? From what I understand only TWS Plus does the individual connection to each earbud?


It's not the plus - i did see that.


----------



## actorlife

billbishere said:


> You guys got me going down the TWS Rabbit Hole now... Has anyone seen these..
> 
> https://www.kickstarter.com/project...n-wrist-charging-hi-fi-earbuds?mnsid=mrmobile
> 
> Tested here



Nah I'm waiting till they make a case with built in speakers  + only 5hrs battery. Need 8hrs or more.


----------



## d3myz

vstolpner said:


> Is it True Wireless Stereo, or TWS Plus? From what I understand only TWS Plus does the individual connection to each earbud?



It has both.  https://www.qualcomm.com/products/qcc3020


----------



## d3myz

vstolpner said:


> That's their regular price on AliExpress. In fact I've seen them many times around $60 mark. Of course Amazon has free returns so there's that.
> 
> Though I'm holding out for their next gen TWS earphones.


Yea, i'm at the point where if it doesn't have Volume control and/or Qualcomm True Wireless Plus it's going to have to be Cheap or really amazing like the 359's to get me excited.


----------



## d3myz

hifi80sman said:


> Actually, no, I don't.


Bummer, that's one of the deal breakers for me about the Pamu Scroll, they look and feel nice, sound good and have 4 hour + battery life, but you can't turn the stupid things off.


----------



## d3myz

actorlife said:


> You crack me up. I might have to get them then and if i do i won't be back on thread till Oct. I'm warning you. Wahahaha


man, for $32.60 shipped, i'm very tempted. but i've literally bought 5 pairs of earbuds this week. Granted 3 of them are being returned, but i'm keeping two and my wife, well, let's just say, she's been happier. LOL


----------



## d3myz

billbishere said:


> I see that - just looked it up.  That is impressive.  Well, guess I overlooked those.  Under $50 is pretty fantastic for that.  I am not thinking my ears would love that design tho, I need some sort of hook.


They fit great with the right tips. I twist mine vertically and they stay in place really nicely. I'd recommend at least giving them a go from amazon. I also bought the Tranya T1 Pro and I think it sounds a little better as far as bass is concerned, but the soundstage is smaller and the mids are more recessed. The T3 sounds better to me. and the T5 is it's own animal. really balanced great mids and highs, phone calls are excellent. my only grip is powering them off. you have to power them off individually and if you are listening to a track it always moves forward or back when holding it down before powering off. other than that, they are a strong 4.75/5 for me.


----------



## actorlife

Here is a list of TWS sales at the moment. Join me in the RABBIT hole. 
https://slickdeals.net/newsearch.ph...53&forumchoice[]=54&q=TWS+Earbuds&firstonly=1


----------



## vstolpner

d3myz said:


> Yea, i'm at the point where if it doesn't have Volume control and/or Qualcomm True Wireless Plus it's going to have to be Cheap or really amazing like the 359's to get me excited.



Same, though the Tranya T3's are impressing me more and more as they burn in.

Come on 1more - release those new earphones already!!! I want QCC51xx! I want TWS Plus! I want hybrid drivers!!!
oh and please don't do something silly like forget to include volume control!


----------



## vstolpner

actorlife said:


> Here is a list of TWS sales at the moment. Join me in the RABBIT hole.
> https://slickdeals.net/newsearch.php?forumchoice[]=4&forumchoice[]=9&forumchoice[]=10&forumchoice[]=13&forumchoice[]=25&forumchoice[]=30&forumchoice[]=38&forumchoice[]=39&forumchoice[]=41&forumchoice[]=44&forumchoice[]=53&forumchoice[]=54&q=TWS+Earbuds&firstonly=1



That's an awesome site!!

But nothing interesting on the list


----------



## actorlife (Jul 15, 2019)

d3myz said:


> man, for $32.60 shipped, i'm very tempted. but i've literally bought 5 pairs of earbuds this week. Granted 3 of them are being returned, but i'm keeping two and my wife, well, let's just say, she's been happier. LOL


So much temptations here, but it's great that most of these are only 4-6hrs only.
I'm looking around to see if I can get a better deal on the QCR. I really like the battery display on the case and APTX and that someone mentioned 10hr battery(bet with 50% vol) has me curious as heck. I'm surprised no one has jumped on these.
*Specs*

StyleIn-Ear
CommunicationWireless
ConnectorsNone
Wireless TypeBluetooth
Vocalism PrincipleDynamic
Control ButtonYes
Volume ControlYes
Active Noise-CancellationYes
FunctionFor Internet Bar
FunctionMonitor Headphone
Functionfor Video Game
FunctionCommon Headphone
FunctionFor Mobile Phone
FunctionFor iPod
FunctionHiFi Headphone
FunctionSport
Plug TypeWireless
Sensitivity110±4dB
Frequency Response Range100-10000Hz
Line LengthNone
Resistance32Ω
WaterproofYes
Model NumberTWS-X11
Support Memory CardNo
Support APPNo
Is wirelessYes
With MicrophoneYes
CodecsApt-X
Brand NameQCR
NameX11 TWS Wireless Bluetooth 5.0 Earphones
Charging box battery specification3500 mAh
Bluetooth5.0
Earbuds waterproof levelIPX7 (shower,Snorkeling,Rain, sweat)
earphone battery capacity60 mAh
earphones play time7 Hours
Earbus standby120 H
Compatibilityfor iOS Android Smart Phone Smart tablet
KeyTouch


----------



## vstolpner

d3myz said:


> It has both.  https://www.qualcomm.com/products/qcc3020



Just because the chipset supports it, doesn't mean the manufacturer implemented it - need to confirm with the manufacturer.


----------



## turbobb

vstolpner said:


> Just because the chipset supports it, doesn't mean the manufacturer implemented it - need to confirm with the manufacturer.



Indeed and additionally, the source device will also need to support TWS+ (I believe it's available w/SnapDragon845 onwards).


----------



## vstolpner

turbobb said:


> Indeed and additionally, the source device will also need to support TWS+ (I believe it's available w/SnapDragon845 onwards).



Yes, forgot to mention.... Sadly my GS8 is SD835 only 
Waiting for my term to be up to upgrade...

Speaking of which - what technology do Sony's new TWS earphones use and what do they require on the host side to support individual connection to each earbud?


----------



## mikp

theres been no evidence of TWS+ working on 845\855 devices, so far only marketing mumbo jumbo


----------



## d3myz

billbishere said:


> It's not the plus - i did see that.





turbobb said:


> Indeed and additionally, the source device will also need to support TWS+ (I believe it's available w/SnapDragon845 onwards).


Damn, that's disappointing, well at least us Iphone users can still benefit from TrueWireless Stereo, just not the plus.


----------



## d3myz

mikp said:


> theres been no evidence of TWS+ working on 845\855 devices, so far only marketing mumbo jumbo


Which is strange because Qualcomm's site says the TWS+ was designed to work with the 845 platform. https://www.qualcomm.com/solutions/voice-and-music/features/truewireless


----------



## vstolpner

d3myz said:


> Damn, that's disappointing, well at least us Iphone users can still benefit from TrueWireless Stereo, just not the plus.



Pretty sure the Apple AirPods work like TWS+


----------



## vstolpner

d3myz said:


> Which is strange because Qualcomm's site says the TWS+ was designed to work with the 845 platform. https://www.qualcomm.com/solutions/voice-and-music/features/truewireless



Pretty sure it's a matter that we haven't come across the test of that.

Also with QCC51xx it will go more into the forefront, so I'm expecting these tests to come with that


----------



## d3myz

vstolpner said:


> Pretty sure it's a matter that we haven't come across the test of that.
> 
> Also with QCC51xx it will go more into the forefront, so I'm expecting these tests to come with that


Well, this is very enlightening. I'd like to know also if TWS+ is something that is going to be supported on laptops, desktops etc? and if maybe there a Qualcomm BT module you can buy to support it etc.


----------



## d3myz (Jul 15, 2019)

I mentioned this on one post, but I got my hands on the Tranya T1 Pro and was quite impressed. They sound really good. More narrow soundstage then the T3 and MPOW T5. 
They have more bass than the T5 but not like the T3's bass. The mids are more recessed, but the highs are a little higher than the T5. Almost a little fatiguing. 
To me the T5 has more flat mids which i really like,  but all in all the T1 Pro is a really fun TWS, connection is good, audiobooks sound good, phone calls were fine. and the fit was great. It's just too bad they T3 is the same price or even a little cheaper. I'd say they are definitely worth picking up maybe when they go on sale.


----------



## FYLegend

DigDub said:


> And... the Aukey EP-T10 is in. Usb-c, wireless charging case, 7 hours battery life, touch controls, supports play/pause, volume control and skipping tracks. Supports aptx, aac and sbc, my Samsung S10 defaults to aac though, but I couldn't detect any difference between aptx and aac.


The official specs don't say AptX support. Maybe it just switches back to AAC when you set it to AptX.


----------



## mikp

d3myz said:


> Which is strange because Qualcomm's site says the TWS+ was designed to work with the 845 platform. https://www.qualcomm.com/solutions/voice-and-music/features/truewireless


mavins tws+ do not work on my 845 phone or other 855 phones tested. Also on the net same deal with other qcc3026 and those snapdragons. When questioned qualcomm has only stated that it is up to device manufacturer to implement a patch.. after that they got quiet.

so for now its just marketing mumbo jumbo


----------



## drawun

Soreniglio said:


> I just bought QCY T2C on Amazon for 20 $, they're coming in a week or so.
> 
> If my Anbes are gonna be legit, I'll give the QCY to my mom, probably.
> 
> ...


I'm sure moms would be more than happy to receive presents from their children.


----------



## Soreniglio

drawun said:


> I'm sure moms would be more than happy to receive presents from their children.



Yeah, but I was asking sound-wise, LOL


----------



## vstolpner

mikp said:


> mavins tws+ do not work on my 845 phone or other 855 phones tested. Also on the net same deal with other qcc3026 and those snapdragons. When questioned qualcomm has only stated that it is up to device manufacturer to implement a patch.. after that they got quiet.
> 
> so for now its just marketing mumbo jumbo



Damn, if Mavin implemented TWS+, then I wonder which source devices they tested....
Would be good if they had a list of all confirmed TWS+ devices. Especially since it's a bit of a network dilemma - the more devices support it, the more will want to support it


----------



## d3myz

mikp said:


> mavins tws+ do not work on my 845 phone or other 855 phones tested. Also on the net same deal with other qcc3026 and those snapdragons. When questioned qualcomm has only stated that it is up to device manufacturer to implement a patch.. after that they got quiet.
> 
> so for now its just marketing mumbo jumbo


Man, that suuuuuucks!!


----------



## vstolpner

MrBiN said:


> Hello everyone, I founded a next version of Tiso i4 called "Tiso i5" with a better charging case, so anyone in here have tried it, please make a review about it. Thanks
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Found the earphones that I was talking about that are like these....

https://www.amazon.ca/Wireless-Lypumso-Bluetooth-Headphones-Earphones/dp/B07QSVFKJ6/


----------



## Alphasoixante

1MORE Stylish True Wireless Earbuds in black are a Prime Day deal @ $69.92 ($30 off). Apologies if this has been mentioned.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07M6LP3F9/ref=cm_sw_em_r_mt_dp_U_F9nlDb4MZX94D


----------



## Caipirina

Bartig said:


> Oh my. Just ordered it for 60 euros on Amazon Germany. Bit expensive, but hey, still pretty cheap for a Bose.



Funny, did the exact same thing ... did not feel like waiting around for if / when they might be a bit cheaper ...  this might be might last order for a while ... 

Got 2 new ones today and 2 more (incl the Mpow) on the way .. might do a mini review later


----------



## FYLegend

Looks like Monster is using a UFO/Anbes359/BE30 rebrand! You're mainly paying the markup for the brand and the "aesthetics"...

https://www.amazon.ca/dp/B07SFD1KPY...ue+wireless&qid=1563223530&s=gateway&sr=8-270


----------



## Caipirina

Before going to bed, I wanted to share a few insights regarding THESE , the generic name ones with the cool blue / black metal case ... 

 

I really really wanted to love these ... as I had expected, the case (and the buds) are tiny ... the case looks and feels great:  Here in comparison with some other small cases: 

 

And the buds fit my ears very well, connection and pairing does not seem to be an issue ... 

 

BUUUUT

                        (too bad) 

They sound beyond TERRIBLE!!! Seriously, I don't think any of my TWE sound that bad!

You know how when you crank up some headphones to 110% and it starts getting really distorted? well, this is what they sound like at all volumes, even the lowest ... to the point that I am wondering if my pair is defective. Might try to research if I still have time to get a replacement ... the seller appears to be eager, at least the way they outline the warranty in their sales blurb, but this could also be blah blah ...


----------



## Caipirina

chinmie said:


> you can use this page to test the left and right one, then you can mark them for easier identification
> 
> https://www.audiocheck.net/audiotests_stereo.php



Thanks, I used one of the many youtube videos available to check ...


----------



## vstolpner

Alphasoixante said:


> 1MORE Stylish True Wireless Earbuds in black are a Prime Day deal @ $69.92 ($30 off). Apologies if this has been mentioned.
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07M6LP3F9/ref=cm_sw_em_r_mt_dp_U_F9nlDb4MZX94D




It has
And they're cheaper on AliExpress

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/goi...re-we-there-yet.861024/page-588#post-15063922


----------



## vstolpner

FYLegend said:


> Looks like Monster is using a UFO/Anbes359/BE30 rebrand! You're mainly paying the markup for the brand and the "aesthetics"...
> 
> https://www.amazon.ca/dp/B07SFD1KPY...ue+wireless&qid=1563223530&s=gateway&sr=8-270



Lol that's hilarious!!
But I do like the angled look though :-/


----------



## hifi80sman

d3myz said:


> I mentioned this on one post, but I got my hands on the Tranya T1 Pro and was quite impressed. They sound really good. More narrow soundstage then the T3 and MPOW T5.
> They have more bass than the T5 but not like the T3's bass. The mids are more recessed, but the highs are a little higher than the T5. Almost a little fatiguing.
> To me the T5 has more flat mids which i really like,  but all in all the T1 Pro is a really fun TWS, connection is good, audiobooks sound good, phone calls were fine. and the fit was great. It's just too bad they T3 is the same price or even a little cheaper. I'd say they are definitely worth picking up maybe when they go on sale.


You _*need *_a pair for every mood.  Every.  Single.  Mood.


----------



## hifi80sman

FYLegend said:


> Looks like Monster is using a UFO/Anbes359/BE30 rebrand! You're mainly paying the markup for the brand and the "aesthetics"...
> 
> https://www.amazon.ca/dp/B07SFD1KPY...ue+wireless&qid=1563223530&s=gateway&sr=8-270


Yeah, Monster is basically dead now.  Once Beats left them, they came out with some "meh" stuff and now they've been relegated to re-brands.  Sad, really, if you think where they once were.  Even if you didn't like the sound, they were still one of the top companies the typical consumer thought of.

Once Beats left, instead of competing for the "urban" market, they should have reinvented themselves as a "serious" audio company.


----------



## webvan

mikp said:


> I would not test them,-plenty of bad reviews on jd.com
> firmware just updated to support apt-x, and very limited control options. Can only select 1 control at a time with an app that also have bad reviews.



As posted earlier today the reviews here https://item.jd.com/100003423995.html appear excellent overall based on the output of Google's translator, are you really talking about the same device ?


----------



## Dcell7

Caipirina said:


> They sound beyond TERRIBLE!!! Seriously, I don't think any of my TWE sound that bad!



Try Bluedio Hurricane Hi


----------



## FYLegend

hifi80sman said:


> Yeah, Monster is basically dead now.  Once Beats left them, they came out with some "meh" stuff and now they've been relegated to re-brands.  Sad, really, if you think where they once were.  Even if you didn't like the sound, they were still one of the top companies the typical consumer thought of.
> 
> Once Beats left, instead of competing for the "urban" market, they should have reinvented themselves as a "serious" audio company.


Yeah, before they actually had some respectable stuff like Inspiration and Turbine Copper, but those were basically overshadowed by QC issues and also the Beats name. Still, they have good taste for choosing the UFOs.

The Earfun Free is supposed to ship out today but there was nothing in my mailbox or tracking number - they said it might take 2 days to give us all tracking numbers but a number of people in Southeast Asia have received it already.

Would like to see a shoot-out between all Qi-charging TWS in terms of compatibility etc. Does anyone know if Airpods 2 or Galaxy Buds can charge via a 10W charging pad? Some of the budget buds can't, or at the very least are best charged via 5W. I get there is a problem with heat, but considering my phone supports 10W charging, it wouldn't make much sense for me to get a 5W pad.

Ideally, I'm looking for something with Type C charging, Wireless Charging, and ambient sound. Only if they tick these boxes would I say they are a Galaxy buds killer. Ambient sound isn't a must for me but I find it quite convenient on the Jabras 65t.


----------



## actorlife (Jul 15, 2019)

FYLegend said:


> Looks like Monster is using a UFO/Anbes359/BE30 rebrand! You're mainly paying the markup for the brand and the "aesthetics"...
> 
> https://www.amazon.ca/dp/B07SFD1KPY...ue+wireless&qid=1563223530&s=gateway&sr=8-270


Damn are those ugly as F. Monsters really look like a monster.


----------



## MacedonianHero

Just picked up a pair of Sennheiser Momentum True Wireless earbuds...love the way they sound so far! Quite comfortable for long sessions and the best true wireless earbuds I've heard so far.


----------



## DigDub

FYLegend said:


> The official specs don't say AptX support. Maybe it just switches back to AAC when you set it to AptX.


The box has aptx low latency printed on it, so it may just be an error. But when I switch the codec to aptx, there's sound, usually there will not be any sound if the buds do not support aptx.


----------



## d3myz

hifi80sman said:


> You _*need *_a pair for every mood.  Every.  Single.  Mood.


You said it, my man. I wish I could keep them, I really like the T1 Pro.


----------



## MrBiN

vstolpner said:


> Found the earphones that I was talking about that are like these....
> 
> https://www.amazon.ca/Wireless-Lypumso-Bluetooth-Headphones-Earphones/dp/B07QSVFKJ6/


Haha, I also found the earphone like that. So I think Tiso is not R&D (Research & Development) their products. Maybe has an OEM company provides and sells earphones like that. Then the companies like Tiso buys and put their brand name on it. But I saw only Tiso puts the name on charging case, the others is not, I don't know why , maybe related to tax.

So it's not our problem. Our problem is: "if the earphone has good quality, we buy and use them". Over!
https://sea.banggood.com/vi/Bluetoo...try=VN&_APPDRAINAGE=1&ID=224&cur_warehouse=CN


----------



## vstolpner

MrBiN said:


> Haha, I also found the earphone like that. So I think Tiso is not R&D (Research & Development) their products. Maybe has an OEM company provides and sells earphones like that. Then the companies like Tiso buys and put their brand name on it. But I saw only Tiso puts the name on charging case, the others is not, I don't know why , maybe related to tax.
> 
> So it's not our problem. Our problem is: "if the earphone has good quality, we buy and use them". Over!
> https://sea.banggood.com/vi/Bluetoo...try=VN&_APPDRAINAGE=1&ID=224&cur_warehouse=CN



I totally agree - if it sounds great, then great! But then cases like Anbes 359 rebrands Make me a little worried. I suspect the shell might be the same, but then internal components they cheap out on (such as get a cheaper driver or chipset). And then you get poor quality 

But then these guys also come in white!!
If anyone gets these and they turn out to be good, I'll probably pick them up on white!


----------



## WCDchee

Just foot the Sony wf-1000xm3, damn sounds much better than the sennheiser to my ears. Much more complete package with good ANC too!


----------



## srinivasvignesh

WCDchee said:


> Just foot the Sony wf-1000xm3, damn sounds much better than the sennheiser to my ears. Much more complete package with good ANC too!



Nice! Can you provide some thoughts on call quality (especially in noisy environments)?


----------



## bronco1015

magi44ken said:


> Thanks for your thoughts.  From your list of TWS, which one have the best mic call quality in a not quiet environment like in a mall, coffee shop, etc.


 I'd say all else aside, the jabra Elite 65T are still the best over all for call quality. When whole package is considered for me it's the MTWs. I rarely hear complaints about them and i use them on my commute to work, in the grocery store etc.


----------



## bronco1015

Bartig said:


> You think the Anbes is the worst for calls? Try the Bluedio Hi! p Lol no thank you
> I have them coming my way, will write a review on my site/ a summary here once I receive them.


----------



## MrBiN

vstolpner said:


> I totally agree - if it sounds great, then great! But then cases like Anbes 359 rebrands Make me a little worried. I suspect the shell might be the same, but then internal components they cheap out on (such as get a cheaper driver or chipset). And then you get poor quality
> 
> But then these guys also come in white!!
> If anyone gets these and they turn out to be good, I'll probably pick them up on white!


When a product becomes famous, there are high probability they can be counterfeit.  So we need to be carefull.


----------



## vstolpner

MrBiN said:


> When a product becomes famous, there are high probability they can be counterfeit.  So we need to be carefull.



I'm not sure Anbes 359 were ever famous outside of this forum. The "UFO" models were much more popular on sites like Amazon I think .


----------



## d3myz (Jul 16, 2019)

OK,  just got a slickdeals alert,  I apologize if these deals have already been posted.

*Anker Soundcore Liberty Neo Wireless Earbuds - $40.99*

*Jabra Elite 65t $113.99 * Amazon Link

*(renewed for $84.99)*


----------



## d3myz (Jul 16, 2019)

OK, i'm seriously thinking about the anker soundcore liberty neo form $40.99

And the 1more Stylish for $59.99 at gearbest 

Thoughts on the Ankers? from what I read the stylish are pretty nice, but are they worth $60 when I already have, my T3's, T5's, 359's and btw @actorlife I got the 359's from the link on ebay you sent for $20 they are PRISTINE and they are legit Anbes' looks like they've never been used, so thank you. So what say you masters of sound?


----------



## FYLegend (Jul 17, 2019)

Anbes were mostly hyped up here while Kissral got some hype on YouTube along with Letscom BE30.  Seems to me like BE30 is the proper OEM registry, but several manufacturers of it are listed on Alibaba, so there would likely be some variation and knockoffs.

Outside of the bass imbalance, the rebrand has a detailed sound, but this defect really puts me off seriously evaluating the product outside of some occasional listening. I'm also somewhat appalled the seller is blaming the defect on "possible damage while travelling". Not sure how this dispute will play out but the seller seems to be only willing to give a discount on a future purchase. The rest of their store is mainly audio accessories and lower-end TWS...



DigDub said:


> The box has aptx low latency printed on it, so it may just be an error. But when I switch the codec to aptx, there's sound, usually there will not be any sound if the buds do not support aptx.


On my Note 9, sound is still outputs sound, but the next time I go back to the developer options menu I can see it has been switched back to whatever the proper, previously-set codec  was.

It does make me wonder how manufacturers can "cheap out" on AptX - support the codec but not the proper bitrates etc. I remember buying a Maceton receiver which has AptX but the bass just sounds downright distorted and volume clipped too high. Impressions seem less than stellar for the XPods3/YTOM T1 as well...

A few deals I found recently:
*Astrotec S60 5.0* is down to 67$USD/89$CAD on Aliexpress
*Sabbat E12 *is 85$CAD on Amazon.ca using a 10$ coupon. Not the cheapest but reasonable if you consider it's Amazon shipping/fulfillment...
*Jabra 65t Silver *is 170$CAD, but it did go down to 150$ on boxing day/week...
*Jabees *has a 20% discount on their earbuds for the next few days, so 65$ for the *Firefly Pro. *Coupon only lasts 2 days. I'm wondering if anyone has tried these, as I've tried the original Firefly briefly in Taiwan and wasn't really impressed with the sound quality (then again, the store carried S60 4.2 which pretty much blew everything else out in SQ).


----------



## bronco1015

billbishere said:


> The more I listen to my 1more TWS the more I wonder why anyone would look else.  These are $99 - have some of the best connection tech made and they sound fantastic.  They were expert tuned and a lot of time was spent to make them rock solid.  They charge fast, hold battery well...  I couldn't be happier.  I have tested out teh Bose and Jabra and neither sounded as good as these imo.  Not to mention the Bose have a horrible lag on youtube.... You get NONE of that with the 1more.
> 
> I just haven't seen anyone talk about them at all and for the price to performance I dont see anything better!


 Honestly, i've never heard anything from 1more but have always been a bit curious about some of their offerings, E.G. the tripple driver inear. And i wouldn't be surprised if they potentially sounded better than the jabras, but they're $99, have bt 4.1 micro USB. My Anbes359 cost $32, have USBC, bluetooth 5, have a good implementation of SBC Imo, have crazy good range in my 100plus year old house and at work, then at the other end i have the MTWs. 10 times the price, not quite 10 times the SQ of the 359, but pretty impressive none the less. This thread has trended towards the low end for quite a while now, and while it does have posts highlighting some real dudds with forgetable names, it also shows the value you can find in cheaper alternatives E.g. QCY T1C, Mpow T5. There have also been plenty of posts about the Sennheiser MTW, M&D MW07, B&O E8 EarinM2 etc. The 1more's may very well be a compelling option, but imo they compete in the most difficult price point to distinguish themselves. it's to bad they were delayed, they likely could have gotten solid footing in the TWS market. Since they took time to get issues with this first TW iem addressed, I'll definitely look into future releases. In the mean time, if these went down to say $40 or $50 i'd posibly consider them.


----------



## d3myz

bronco1015 said:


> Honestly, i've never heard anything from 1more but have always been a bit curious about some of their offerings, E.G. the tripple driver inear. And i wouldn't be surprised if they potentially sounded better than the jabras, but they're $99, have bt 4.1 micro USB. My Anbes359 cost $32, have USBC, bluetooth 5, have a good implementation of SBC Imo, have crazy good range in my 100plus year old house and at work, then at the other end i have the MTWs. 10 times the price, not quite 10 times the SQ of the 359, but pretty impressive none the less. This thread has trended towards the low end for quite a while now, and while it does have posts highlighting some real dudds with forgetable names, it also shows the value you can find in cheaper alternatives E.g. QCY T1C, Mpow T5. There have also been plenty of posts about the Sennheiser MTW, M&D MW07, B&O E8 EarinM2 etc. The 1more's may very well be a compelling option, but imo they compete in the most difficult price point to distinguish themselves. it's to bad they were delayed, they likely could have gotten solid footing in the TWS market. Since they took time to get issues with this first TW iem addressed, I'll definitely look into future releases. In the mean time, if these went down to say $40 or $50 i'd posibly consider them.


Great input, I appreciate it. You def. have a point, they are kind of in no mans land. unless of course they sound exceptional.


----------



## vstolpner (Jul 16, 2019)

bronco1015 said:


> Honestly, i've never heard anything from 1more but have always been a bit curious about some of their offerings, E.G. the tripple driver inear. And i wouldn't be surprised if they potentially sounded better than the jabras, but they're $99, have bt 4.1 micro USB. My Anbes359 cost $32, have USBC, bluetooth 5, have a good implementation of SBC Imo, have crazy good range in my 100plus year old house and at work, then at the other end i have the MTWs. 10 times the price, not quite 10 times the SQ of the 359, but pretty impressive none the less. This thread has trended towards the low end for quite a while now, and while it does have posts highlighting some real dudds with forgetable names, it also shows the value you can find in cheaper alternatives E.g. QCY T1C, Mpow T5. There have also been plenty of posts about the Sennheiser MTW, M&D MW07, B&O E8 EarinM2 etc. The 1more's may very well be a compelling option, but imo they compete in the most difficult price point to distinguish themselves. it's to bad they were delayed, they likely could have gotten solid footing in the TWS market. Since they took time to get issues with this first TW iem addressed, I'll definitely look into future releases. In the mean time, if these went down to say $40 or $50 i'd posibly consider them.



I'm with you about the 1more's. I've been so close so many times to buying them but then considered their future TWS earphones (the hybrid ones that they announced done half year ago), consider the Tranya T3's and Anbes 359 that I already have, and they just no longer make any sense. Maybe that's why they've been steadily increasing the discount on them - trying to move old stock before they release their new ones.

[Edit]
Oh and I totally agree about the price point being a tough sell - it's just enough of a premium that people looking at high quality, inexpensive options don't consider them, but at the same time it's too cheap for people looking at the higher end of the spectrum. Hopefully their future release won't be priced towards that higher end
[/Edit]

Either way - what new releases is everyone looking forward to?


----------



## bronco1015

vstolpner said:


> I'm with you about the 1more's. I've been so close so many times to buying them but then considered their future TWS earphones (the hybrid ones that they announced done half year ago), consider the Tranya T3's and Anbes 359 that I already have, and they just no longer make any sense. Maybe that's why they've been steadily increasing the discount on them - trying to move old stock before they release their new ones.
> 
> [Edit]
> Oh and I totally agree about the price point being a tough sell - it's just enough of a premium that people looking at high quality, inexpensive options don't consider them, but at the same time it's too cheap for people looking at the higher end of the spectrum. Hopefully their future release won't be priced towards that higher end
> ...


i'm looking forward to the WF 1000X M3, I'll be checking out the Bose 500s, and looking for those new TWs from 1more. plus whatever sleeper hit someone discovers haha. On a side note, i'd love it if V-Moda took a stab at the True Wireless market. Had an old pair of trusound iems forever ago that i loved, and currently use my Forza Metalo Wireless a couple times a week.


----------



## DigDub

I'm on a roll!


----------



## vstolpner

For anyone in Canada - Amazon.ca is having a prime deal on Tranya T3's in the morning!


----------



## YBAcoustics

Anybody know what does "passive transparency" mean in "earbuds use passive transparency so you can hear your surroundings" ?


----------



## Caipirina

Dcell7 said:


> Try Bluedio Hurricane Hi



After hearing all the positive rave about those here I refrained from ordering those ... even though the case design is kinda nice


----------



## Caipirina

hifi80sman said:


> You _*need *_a pair for every mood.  Every.  Single.  Mood.


Also genre, time of day ... oh, and it needs to color coordinate with your outfit!


----------



## FYLegend

vstolpner said:


> I'm with you about the 1more's. I've been so close so many times to buying them but then considered their future TWS earphones (the hybrid ones that they announced done half year ago), consider the Tranya T3's and Anbes 359 that I already have, and they just no longer make any sense. Maybe that's why they've been steadily increasing the discount on them - trying to move old stock before they release their new ones.
> 
> [Edit]
> Oh and I totally agree about the price point being a tough sell - it's just enough of a premium that people looking at high quality, inexpensive options don't consider them, but at the same time it's too cheap for people looking at the higher end of the spectrum. Hopefully their future release won't be priced towards that higher end
> ...


I wonder what's taking 1More so long with that. I don't remember seeing a big anouncement at the time though. I do recall when the Stylish were announced, it was only BT4.2 and no codecs mentioned, so they might have taken the time to address some of the complaints , though it seemed like there wasn't quite as many people complaining about no type C until after their official release. It does seem counter-productive considering that hybrid TWS already shows type C.

I'm looking forward to a Jabra 65t successor, considering the 85h has included Type C among other things. They should try to go for a TWS with ANC as the 65t's isolation is terrible. I also hope Audio-Technica offers a more balanced TWS that has USB-C charging. Maybe something like the E40 or IM70 in a TWS package...

As an aside one thing that I'm somewhat surprised is there seems to be more budget TWS with Type C than budget over-ear ANC/wireless headphones. Off the top of my head I only know of *coughcough* Bluedio and Femperna (which uses a Type-C for charging and audio-out via 3.5mm). Been trying to look for a budget 1000xm3 killer...


----------



## Bartig

So yeah, the Honor FlyPods Lite. The good news is I got them in a one day sale for only 21 euros. The bad thing is that they normally cost 3-4 times that.

Sound is thin with shaky highs, touch controls don't work very well and the Bluetooth connection isn't very stable. If you still want a review, here it is.


----------



## Caipirina (Jul 16, 2019)

Finally some keepers:

Not much to add about the Mpow. Yes, those are really nice, and I have not even tried forcing my mac into AptX mode (i usually only play from iPhone, will try at some later point)
I will never understand amazon logistics, first it said 'arriving Friday', then 'Wednesday' and then I get an email 'today' ... well, not complaining 



Now, the other one i got is this ANYFUN (K10) which I got with a 3€ off coupon for 16.99€ ... and for that these actually sound really nice ... I would put them in the same line with the Blitzwolf FYE5 or the Haylou G1 (both which I like) ... and I have not even tried different tips yet. Need to find some that will still make the buds stay in case ... they might end up as good as (or at least close to) the Anbes 359 ... they share a very similar case design, albeit the buds are different (hope that comes across in the pics) ... there is nice bass without being overpowering (or Tranya levels), though this might still change with better seal. The highs are sweet and detailed. Have not listened too critical at mid centric tracks, but I did not find anything lacking so far.



Also no problem with pairing nor connectivity ...

And is this quite a wide soundstage I hear there? Still listening to them ... this SQ at 17€ makes me happy ...

They claim play time 6-8h (we shall see) and quick charge 20min gives you 3h ... oh, and IPX5 (totally forgot about that) ... so, will test them on a run later.

Those kind of buds make me order and return from / to amazon ... only way to find the few gems out there. Yes, I called this one a gem 

(I am usually not testing phone calls / video lag, as that is not my usage area)

Oh, and ONE more keeper (edit: nope, they are not!) ... that one took me a while to make up my mind ...  these LATOW LUNA i had mentioned here earlier.



As I had gleaned from some customer pictures, the sides are indeed some nice rubber-y silicone which makes for a secure fit. Overall, they fit snuggly and comfortable and unlike Hifi80sman experience, I did not encounter any drop out problems (need to double check on noise floor, but did not notice right away)

(edit: I just did a walk and this is where I noticed the complete and utter connectivity fail! If there is no direct line of sight, the right bud keeps dropping out.So, they, too, are going back.)

Sound is bass forward and looks like great running buds (if they had any IPX rating, which I don't see ... so, maybe just for un-sweaty walks)

Here is where it gets a tiny bit hairy and I was wondering if that warrants return ... power management ... you have to turn them off manually!!! otherwise they stay connected and drain, even in box ... and I am still not sure, it appears that the red (and white charging indicator) LEDs stay on all the way through charging ... there is a button in the case that I can double tap and then all lights go off, but no clue if that means they continue charging ...



In the end I decided this to be a minor matter and at 20€ I am pretty happy ... (not as happy as with the anyfun, but I like the sound and the feel enough to keep 'em)
(edit: and no, they are boxed up and ready for mail drop)


----------



## Mouseman

Caipirina said:


> Here is where it gets a tiny bit hairy and I was wondering if that warrants return ... power management ... you have to turn them off manually!!! otherwise they stay connected and drain, even in box ... and I am still not sure, it appears that the red (and white charging indicator) LEDs stay on all the way through charging ... there is a button in the case that I can double tap and then all lights go off, but no clue if that means they continue charging ...


That seems to be a common issue with cases. I have a pair of KNZs that I got from Kickstarter, and the case is a mess. If I don't turn it off, it cycles constantly and the buds randomly reconnect to my phone until they die. Otherwise, they're not a bad pair (besides the less-than-promised battery life), but the case makes me hate them.


----------



## TYATYA

DigDub said:


> I'm on a roll!


Wow I am sorry to say it was too expensive than in Japan (¥25800).
What a Sony!


----------



## david8613

DigDub said:


> I'm on a roll!



I am waiting for these to show up an local best buy, you gotta tell us how they sound!!!!


----------



## Caipirina

TYATYA said:


> Wow I am sorry to say it was too expensive than in Japan (¥25800).
> What a Sony!


Well, if he is a Challenger member he only paid 331 SGD, which is 26365Y , so, 500Y more ~ 5$ or  100K VND


----------



## jasonb

Still very happy with my Galaxy Buds with a Pixel 3a. Sounds great and with this phone there are no connection stability issues at all.


----------



## DigDub (Jul 16, 2019)

david8613 said:


> I am waiting for these to show up an local best buy, you gotta tell us how they sound!!!!


The good thing with the Sony is that they come with an app that has equalizer settings. So the sound can be tuned to my liking, I like the clearbass option.


----------



## Bartig

Mouseman said:


> That seems to be a common issue with cases. I have a pair of KNZs that I got from Kickstarter, and the case is a mess. If I don't turn it off, it cycles constantly and the buds randomly reconnect to my phone until they die. Otherwise, they're not a bad pair (besides the less-than-promised battery life), but the case makes me hate them.


Oof. Both the Bluedio's, the T-Elf and the Hi, have this problem. So frustrating, it's enough to trash them instantly.


----------



## Caipirina

Sharing a bit of sonic happiness ... well, I said I don't have much to add to the overall positive Mpow T5 impressions ... but now that I discovered / realized that my Shanling M3S player does Apt-X, I am really psyched about them and for 'critical' listening I prefer them now more than the Tranya T3 ....  the Tranya's are still the better combo with iPhone while running .. .pretty certain the Shanling is not sweat proof


----------



## disfiguredlabrynth (Jul 16, 2019)

I got the Mifo o5 a few days ago. Very long battery life and i didnt even charge the case when they arrived. The case still charges them though!

Sound is a toss up to what you may want. I found vocals not to sound as good as on the Haylou GT1 (which sound incredibly fun and clear for the price), the bass is more natural so it doesn't sound as 'fun'. Can sound muffled but i believe that is the fault of the eartips. Treble can almost disappear so i have to use eq to bring it back up.

Does anybody have any eartip suggestions for the Mifo o5? I can tell these have potenetial but as with most chinese chifi they miss the mark with the danged ear tips. I think if the Mifo o5 had vents this would fix the muffled sound and muddy vocals.

On a plus side, these look and feel amazing. And battery is a dream. No drop outs or resets that ive experienced. Just wish the sound was a bit better 

Sad how the Haylou GT1 nailed this for over half the price. I highly suggest those if you want a bassy sound.


Edit: These respond outstandingly well to EQ. Pretty much fixes the muddy vocals and non existent treble.  It really must be the fit! Vacuum seal = bad muddy sound. The separation is amazing for tws- like wired levels which is impressive. It presents the music in a more natural way and the bass is so controlled i would have sworn these had beryillium drivers like the astrotec s80.


----------



## actorlife

Caipirina said:


> Finally some keepers:
> 
> Not much to add about the Mpow. Yes, those are really nice, and I have not even tried forcing my mac into AptX mode (i usually only play from iPhone, will try at some later point)
> I will never understand amazon logistics, first it said 'arriving Friday', then 'Wednesday' and then I get an email 'today' ... well, not complaining
> ...


Thank you that was fun. I'm still waiting for the top 15.


----------



## falang

Tranya T3 now $25 off on Amazon Canada for prime members.


----------



## Caipirina

actorlife said:


> Thank you that was fun. I'm still waiting for the top 15.



For now you have to go with my two highly scientific categories: Keepers & Trash


----------



## JimmyR

Caipirina said:


> For now you have to go with my two highly scientific categories: Keepers & Trash



That's enough for me for the moment.. Thanks for all the "scientific" insights you brought over here in a so funny way. Keep up with it, boy!


----------



## JimmyR

falang said:


> Tranya T3 now $25 off on Amazon Canada for prime members.



Wow! Sounds like a really sweet deal. 
Been using mine for almost a week and I really love them... and for those interested, mic quality is good for business calls as long as you are not on a quite noisy place. Their sound is making me not to miss the Sabbat E12 at all, that I also love SQ-wise (though the mic is terrible, for sure). 
Solid connectivity, comfy while in the ears (too bulky to sleep with them thoug) and looong battery life. Might get them a better eartips (Spinfit 360 likely be my choice)

Considering these buds, albeit being Chi-fi, are not for sale on AliX and the like, this price is the best you can get for a while.


----------



## actorlife (Jul 16, 2019)

Kissral $29: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07N1GXXFN/ref=cm_sw_r_sms_apa_i_SAHlDbGVA6PMQ
Must contain myself. Have not bought anything prime I've been good thus far. Got my refund from Amazon for those terrible TWS I recently returned. Must stick to Budget. Peace & Love. ✌️


----------



## Soreniglio (Jul 16, 2019)

People seem to be positively struck by YTOM: https://it.aliexpress.com/item/3303...0&spm=a2g0y.12010615.8148356.2.7a176328rpybtX

Titanium drive, Qualcomm Aptx: https://it.aliexpress.com/item/3305...&spm=a2g0y.12010615.8148356.12.32027f0dH62MvY

???: https://it.aliexpress.com/item/3302...&spm=a2g0y.12010615.8148356.12.6e2d2195Cj71yk

These seem to be even too good for the price: https://it.aliexpress.com/item/3303...2&spm=a2g0y.12010615.8148356.4.7f2b5c09UzvnFe


----------



## tekwrx

My Mpow T5's arrived a day early (ordered yesterday on Prime Day, wow  ), and have only listened for a few minutes but so far I like what I hear. I might be able to send back the Tranya T3. I guess I would call myself a bit of a basshead (my wired buds for the last few years are the Sony XB90EX), but I thought the T3 bass could be a bit much at times. The T5 may have a more balanced sound. They connected via AptX right away on my Samsung S8+. I will take them to the gym today and give a longer listen.  
The Tranya T3 is great, but mine have an issue of the left bud losing connection for a second every 10-15 minutes or so (sometimes more often), but it always reconnected right away so it wasn't that big of a deal. They also seemed a bit big in my ears (using Sony hybrid tips), but they are very easy to get a seal. 
Overall the T5 might be a better TWS due to the AptX and more balanced sound. We'll see. 
I do like the look and feel of the faux leather charging case of the T5, but don't like that it is much bigger than the T3 case. I'm trying to find out the actual MAH capacity of the case, but after a bit of Google I'm seeing either 280mah or 500mah. Not sure how it compares to the Tranya capacity wide. Too bad it doesn't have USB-C or wireless charging.


----------



## actorlife (Jul 16, 2019)

Soreniglio said:


> People seem to be positively struck by YTOM: https://it.aliexpress.com/item/3303...0&spm=a2g0y.12010615.8148356.2.7a176328rpybtX
> 
> Titanium drive, Qualcomm Aptx: https://it.aliexpress.com/item/3305...&spm=a2g0y.12010615.8148356.12.32027f0dH62MvY
> 
> ...


Some interesting stuff there. Edifier looks good with aptx and 8hr battery not sure about SQ if they have a soundstage and bright without shrill and sibilant it's a good thing. I'm holding off monies is tight. I'll wait for reviews.

Interesting with feedback on using the TWS outside. I've never done it. I use mine at home only. Maybe I'll take a bike ride with mine and see if any have disconnecting or breaking up issues while outside. Not that it matters I like to use mine at home.


----------



## PopZeus

Any word on pricing for the mifo O4 or Shanling MTW100?


----------



## Soreniglio

actorlife said:


> Some interesting stuff there. Edifier looks good with aptx and 8hr battery not sure about SQ if they have a soundstage and bright without shrill and sibilant it's a good thing. I'm holding off monies is tight. I'll wait for reviews.
> 
> Interesting with feedback on using the TWS outside. I've never done it. I use mine at home only. Maybe I'll take a bike ride with mine and see if any have disconnecting or breaking up issues while outside. Not that it matters I like to use mine at home.



Edifier also seems to be a well-known brand, I checked on google and they had some very diverse and reliable products out there.

I might bite the Edifier TWS1 someday, but the issue is that I am no good at all in reviewing sound.


----------



## Dcell7

PopZeus said:


> Any word on pricing for the mifo O4 or Shanling MTW100?



Quote out of the MTW100 thread :



Shanling said:


> Sorry about this, had some problems with getting it posted on Head-Fi, had only phone with me in Korea.
> 
> 
> Three key information:
> ...


----------



## Soreniglio

I found a review about Edifier TWS1:


----------



## vstolpner

Dcell7 said:


> Quote out of the MTW100 thread :



Thanks for the info, I'll have to check it out! I'm actually really excited about these - was there any word on the release date?


----------



## vstolpner

Soreniglio said:


> I found a review about Edifier TWS1:




Does anyone know the difference between the Edifier TWS? Looks like there are at least 4 different versions at different price brackets (with QCC3020 and aptx starting from the cheapest one) :-/


----------



## Soreniglio (Jul 16, 2019)

vstolpner said:


> Does anyone know the difference between the Edifier TWS? Looks like there are at least 4 different versions at different price brackets (with QCC3020 and aptx starting from the cheapest one) :-/



I do know it.

TWS3 is the oldest one, followed by TWS2, TWS1 and TWS5.

TWS1 has Qualcomm QCC3020, TWS5 has Qualcomm QCC3026.

Also:

TWS1 has 8mm dynamic drivers, TWS5 has 6mm dynamic drivers, and impedance is different too: TWS1 has 32 omega while TWS5 has 16 omega.

Sensitivity is 98db on TWS1 and 102db on TWS5.

They speak of "bio-diaphragm", anyone knows what that is supposed to be?


----------



## d3myz

actorlife said:


> You crack me up. I might have to get them then and if i do i won't be back on thread till Oct. I'm warning you. Wahahaha


Check it out, I think these are the same as the ones you were peeping on aliexpress.


----------



## actorlife

Soreniglio said:


> Edifier also seems to be a well-known brand, I checked on google and they had some very diverse and reliable products out there.
> 
> I might bite the Edifier TWS1 someday, but the issue is that I am no good at all in reviewing sound.


Yes I know the brand. They have some good speakers sets and headphones that get great reviews on youtube. Always wanted to try their BT speakers. They are always on sale on amazon constantly. We will see what happens. Thanks for the video.


----------



## Caipirina (Jul 17, 2019)

actorlife said:


> Thank you that was fun. I'm still waiting for the top 15.



Ok, I finally sorted through my summer loot and i tried to group them together in ‘classes’

This is all very scientific and researched and evidence based … or not … I guess it ends up being my gut feeling and what I reach to most .. so, happy sounds, good fit and in general great for running (which means, connectivity issues are a no no) , as this is where I do most of my TWS listening.

Within the classes in no real order … and classes 2&3 are very close together and still pretty good

*Class one: *
Mpow T5
Tranya T3
anbes 359
ZagZog A7 (or G07?) (use the image on Amazon to search for them on AliX, saw them under name 'BlueWow' ... they do NOT have a 3000mAh charging case as the amazon description says, it's 400mAh .. they were mixing listings again... of course, no guarantee that the ones on AliX are the same or have the same SQ)
Mifo O5 Pro (BA version)

*Class two:*
Anyfun K10
QCY QS1
Sabbat X12 (they lean towards C1)
Syllable S101 (i actually like them quite some)
Anomoibouds Capsule

*Class three:*
Tiso I4
Blitzwolf FYE5
Haylou G1
Twizzer TP1
1 More Stylish

But once again, those are all above average and will be in rotation.




(please don't ask about classes 4&5 ... but the Havit G1 i.e. is in 4 together with the Redmi Airdots    )


----------



## Heisenberg1895 (Jul 16, 2019)

Hi guys.
Just pulled the trigger on some Tranya T3's after glowing recommendations.
Wondered if anyone could recommend some aftermarket tips? Had a look at comply but the tranyas aren't on their list.  So is there an alternative make, or maybe comply for a different brand that will fit?

Thanks in advance.


----------



## actorlife (Jul 16, 2019)

d3myz said:


> Check it out, I think these are the same as the ones you were peeping on aliexpress.


Wowee what are you trying to do make me homeless?  Thanks Ill see if the price goes down. I don't see APTX mentioned in the amazon page. I asked the seller to confirm. There was a ebay seller who had one pair left and when I checked this morning they were gone. Those were 35, but wrote and asked the seller if he'd do $30. Darn. By the way are you in the US d3myz and is that you in the pic drumming?


----------



## Soreniglio

actorlife said:


> Yes I know the brand. They have some good speakers sets and headphones that get great reviews on youtube. Always wanted to try their BT speakers. They are always on sale on amazon constantly. We will see what happens. Thanks for the video.



No problem! I shall try to gather up some money and buy the Edifier TWS1 in the next weeks.

Might be a bit of a problem, since I am going to receive two pair of TWS very soon, and I think my father might tear me a new hole if he sees any more stuff LOL  (I'm 20, so I have to be wise with my money)


----------



## actorlife

Caipirina said:


> Ok, I finally sorted through my summer loot and i tried to group them together in ‘classes’
> 
> This is all very scientific and researched and evidence based … or not … I guess it ends up being my gut feeling and what I reach to most .. so, happy sounds, good fit and in general great for running (which means, connectivity issues are a no no) , as this is where I do most of my TWS listening.
> 
> ...



AWESOME! It's about time. Wow the Tiso I4 that bad? Yeah those Syllables are growing on me mostly due to the battery. I use them almost everyday watching youtube. You should put this list in your sig, so people can stop asking you which ones you like the most.


----------



## actorlife

Soreniglio said:


> No problem! I shall try to gather up some money and buy the Edifier TWS1 in the next weeks.
> 
> Might be a bit of a problem, since I am going to receive two pair of TWS very soon, and I think my father might tear me a new hole if he sees any more stuff LOL  (I'm 20, so I have to be wise with my money)


You gave me a big chuckle. Yes these audio things are addictive. Yep same here my money is tight too. Let us know when you get your two new TWS. Which ones did you order?


----------



## Soreniglio

actorlife said:


> You gave me a big chuckle. Yes these audio things are addictive. Yep same here my money is tight too. Let us know when you get your two new TWS. Which ones did you order?



I originally bought Creative Outlier Air, but both pairs were defective, so I got a refund.

Then I bought Anbes 359, but I fear they might be knock offs, so I bought QCY (the version with the lid on the charging case), and they're arriving in few days.

If my Anbes end up being a legit pair, I will give my QCY to my mom. 

I am going to receive the QCY first tho, since I bought them on Amazon for 20 €, Anbes are a long way to come (Aliexpress).


----------



## Dcell7

vstolpner said:


> Thanks for the info, I'll have to check it out! I'm actually really excited about these - was there any word on the release date?



No release info yet. On social media Shanling stated a few days ago they will release more info next week. So in a few days there will be probably more information.


----------



## Caipirina

actorlife said:


> AWESOME! It's about time. Wow the Tiso I4 that bad? Yeah those Syllables are growing on me mostly due to the battery. I use them almost everyday watching youtube. You should put this list in your sig, so people can stop asking you which ones you like the most.



No no no ... the Tiso are not bad at all, they are in my top 15!  

It's so hard to draw the lines ... somehow maybe the Tiso have thus far failed to 'wow' me .. this might change ... can't say I have given all of them a fair shake yet.


----------



## hifi80sman

FYLegend said:


> I wonder what's taking 1More so long with that. I don't remember seeing a big anouncement at the time though. I do recall when the Stylish were announced, it was only BT4.2 and no codecs mentioned, so they might have taken the time to address some of the complaints , though it seemed like there wasn't quite as many people complaining about no type C until after their official release. It does seem counter-productive considering that hybrid TWS already shows type C.
> 
> I'm looking forward to a Jabra 65t successor, considering the 85h has included Type C among other things. They should try to go for a TWS with ANC as the 65t's isolation is terrible. I also hope Audio-Technica offers a more balanced TWS that has USB-C charging. Maybe something like the E40 or IM70 in a TWS package...
> 
> As an aside one thing that I'm somewhat surprised is there seems to be more budget TWS with Type C than budget over-ear ANC/wireless headphones. Off the top of my head I only know of *coughcough* Bluedio and Femperna (which uses a Type-C for charging and audio-out via 3.5mm). Been trying to look for a budget 1000xm3 killer...


I don't foresee Audio-Technica releasing USB C any time soon.  Even their latest products feature Micro USB.  It seems like they are aware it's a market impact, so they go out of their way to simply state "USB charging cable".

The typical tagline is cost, but given many dirt cheap Chi-Fi units already have USB C, it may be more along the lines of already purchased, or obligated to purchase, Micro USB stock.

Sony, however, has moved over, it seems completely, to USB C.  Gotta give them credit.


----------



## jant71 (Jul 16, 2019)

@hifi80sman an Their new TW is already out and has USB C...





https://translate.google.com/transl...t/atj/show_model.php?modelId=3102&prev=search


----------



## clerkpalmer

jant71 said:


> @hifi80sman an Their new TW is already out and has USB C...


What is this?


----------



## actorlife

Soreniglio said:


> I originally bought Creative Outlier Air, but both pairs were defective, so I got a refund.
> 
> Then I bought Anbes 359, but I fear they might be knock offs, so I bought QCY (the version with the lid on the charging case), and they're arriving in few days.
> 
> ...


Those are great options. Hopefully you get the real Anbes cause they are the best deal out there. Too bad about the Creatives. So many great options for 8hr+ battery and APTX for such a low price. Check my sig so you can check out which other ones are good as well.


----------



## jant71

clerkpalmer said:


> What is this?



Yeah, added the link after you read it 
https://translate.google.com/transl...t/atj/show_model.php?modelId=3102&prev=search


----------



## hifi80sman

jant71 said:


> @hifi80sman an Their new TW is already out and has USB C...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Great find.  Maybe they're saving the good stuff just for Japan!


----------



## Soreniglio

actorlife said:


> Those are great options. Hopefully you get the real Anbes cause they are the best deal out there. Too bad about the Creatives. So many great options for 8hr+ battery and APTX for such a low price. Check my sig so you can check out which other ones are good as well.



Anyhow, I've been looking on the net a bit, and Edifier TWS1 seem to be mid and high centric earphones, one review says that they are good for "soft music", another one says that their mids and highs are very good. fyi.


----------



## actorlife

jant71 said:


> @hifi80sman an Their new TW is already out and has USB C...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Damn 15hrs of playback AWESOME. See that's what I'm talking about if it's true. The only thing is I'm sure they are over $200 bucks and that's a NONO.


----------



## hifi80sman

OK, Audio-Technica, I owe you an apology.  Looks like it's getting ready for US release.
https://fccid.io/NCC/CCAH19LP2220T3/Y/J+ITAddgk=


----------



## actorlife

Soreniglio said:


> Anyhow, I've been looking on the net a bit, and Edifier TWS1 seem to be mid and high centric earphones, one review says that they are good for "soft music", another one says that their mids and highs are very good. fyi.


They are known for their mids, bass and highs on their products so far, so I bet the SQ is great. Now hopefully the soundstage is great too.


----------



## jant71

actorlife said:


> Damn 15hrs of playback AWESOME. See that's what I'm talking about if it's true. The only thing is I'm sure they are over $200 bucks and that's a NONO.



We been over this already sir  you said $200 + and I said $169 at release. Price will drop as well.


----------



## Caipirina

actorlife said:


> You should put this list in your sig, so people can stop asking you which ones you like the most.



Just went through your sig list ... and wow, I shall do something like that for mine  with mini impressions and mini stats ... 

Still not sure how I work my pre-summer TWE into the mix .. like the Bose SSF are kinda a different class ... the Lezii X12 would be in class 2 or 3 now ... my older Sonys? no clue .. the SP700N probably in 4/5, while the 1000whatsmyname may sound great, but battery life is only so so and the case is somewhat awful ...


----------



## Soreniglio

The only text review I could find of Edifier TWS1 : https://www.gearcoupon.com/all-we-want-about-tws-earbuds-edifier-tws1-review/

It speaks of a generic "classic sound", which strays from the "beats" type of TWS, so I guess they're not bass-heavy, which is something I like. I like my headphones to be balanced.


----------



## beowulf (Jul 16, 2019)

Rockjaw T5. Anyone tried these? Not sure if they're available outside Europe at the moment.
Spent some time with a pair and the results are interesting. A mix of really good and somewhat annoying. But just the fact that I keep them in my work bag is rare (for a wireless model).

Prepping a quick review.


----------



## Soreniglio

Seems like TWS5 is basically a mildly better version of TWS1, and the price tag comes from their being fairly new (they were released 2-3 weeks ago).

I really want to try the TWS1 now, Aptx and 8 hours of battery looks like a dream for that price, knowing that the brand is good they might be a steal at that price, might even dethrone Anbes at this point.


----------



## actorlife

beowulf said:


> Rockjaw T5. Anyone tried these? Not sure if they're available outside Europe at the moment.
> Spent some time with a pair and the results are interesting. A mix of really good and somewhat annoying. But just the fact that I keep them in my work bag is rare (for a wireless model).
> 
> Prepping a quick review.


Those are not truly wireless. They have wires.


----------



## actorlife

Soreniglio said:


> Seems like TWS5 is basically a mildly better version of TWS1, and the price tag comes from their being fairly new (they were released 2-3 weeks ago).
> 
> I really want to try the TWS1 now, Aptx and 8 hours of battery looks like a dream for that price, knowing that the brand is good they might be a steal at that price, might even dethrone Anbes at this point.



They could probably dethrone the Anbes, but they better have a great soundstage like the Anbes. I looked on amazon US and they are not listed yet. They are on ebay for $41. Looking forward to your thoughts. So far I am interested in 4 different pairs with 8-10 battery and APTX. Ranging from $30-80. Unless I can get a sweet deal on the QCR I'm not getting anything else till Oct or later.


----------



## actorlife

Caipirina said:


> Just went through your sig list ... and wow, I shall do something like that for mine  with mini impressions and mini stats ...
> 
> Still not sure how I work my pre-summer TWE into the mix .. like the Bose SSF are kinda a different class ... the Lezii X12 would be in class 2 or 3 now ... my older Sonys? no clue .. the SP700N probably in 4/5, while the 1000whatsmyname may sound great, but battery life is only so so and the case is somewhat awful ...


See that's what I'm talking about. Glad you like my round out in my sig.


----------



## Soreniglio

actorlife said:


> They could probably dethrone the Anbes, but they better have a great soundstage like the Anbes. I looked on amazon US and they are not listed yet. They are on ebay for $41. Looking forward to your thoughts. So far I am interested in 4 different pairs with 8-10 battery and APTX. Ranging from $30-80. Unless I can get a sweet deal on the QCR I'm not getting anything else till Oct or later.



Which one is the pair around 30$?


----------



## falang (Jul 16, 2019)

hifi80sman said:


> OK, Audio-Technica, I owe you an apology.  Looks like it's getting ready for US release.
> https://fccid.io/NCC/CCAH19LP2220T3/Y/J+ITAddgk=


Looks like a usb c cable in the photos. But, the earbuds look huge.

Edit: I see others spotted the usb c cable.


----------



## actorlife (Jul 16, 2019)

Soreniglio said:


> Which one is the pair around 30$?


That would be the QCR, but trying to get them through Ebay or Amazon for $30 and in case I don't like them I can return them. Someone in the review section claimed 10hrs battery: https://m.aliexpress.com/item/33020...d=1452amp-d_otDLIEF4wdDxJ-Z9KQOg1563115101179
and these the other pair I want to try MPOW T5, Considering various BA driver TWS & 1More. I'm really excited about the LYPERTEK TEVI ($80) Aptx, USBC, 10hr battery, etc. These seem to be sold out. I'm still waiting for reviews.
https://www.lypertek.com/tevi


----------



## hifi80sman

OK, so here is my current list (in no particular order within each tier):

*Tier 1 - Big Boys*
Sennheiser MTW
B&O E8
RHA TrueConnect
Bose SSF

*Tier 1A - Can Play with the Big Boys*
MPOW T5
Astrotec S80
Anbes 359
AUKEY T10

*Tier 2 - Good, Solid Performers*
Sabbat E12
BlitzWolf (Dual Driver)
Reserwa
XIKER (Raycon E50 Clone)

*Tier 3 - Passable*
COMEXION
Kissral X8
B-Qtech M2+

*Tier 4 - Trash*
MEBUYZ E19 (Refunded, told me to keep them)


----------



## falang (Jul 16, 2019)

I wonder why the Edifier TWS5 cost more than the TWS1 with smaller drivers? Is smaller better than larger? Or is it because of the updated Qualcomm chip?


----------



## vstolpner

One more TWS arrived today - Tiso i4!!

Now I've got to give them a good break in and I'll be posting my thoughts later this week!!

I imagine prime days week is going to have a lot of people posting their thoughts :-D


----------



## actorlife

hifi80sman said:


> OK, so here is my current list (in no particular order within each tier):
> 
> *Tier 1 - Big Boys*
> Sennheiser MTW
> ...


Whoa that's alot of TWS. Ze Bop. Thanks for the ranking.


----------



## turbobb

hifi80sman said:


>



tsk tsk... I'm sure I don't need to point out that you have too much white space in that pic, I mean, it's quite obvious:

you're missing 4 right off the bat
to add insult to injury, you can easily add two more rows worth of TWE's up top and down below
not to mention if you tighten the formation a bit, one more column...


----------



## SaveTheMantaRays

Update:  My Anbes 359 have a problem, so watch out.

One of the three golden charge connectors on the left bud has fallen out of its placement and now rattles around
inside the ear chamber.  Strangely everything still works, and sounds the same, but I am sure the left bud doesn't
charge as fast as the right.  Just a note.

Also:  A side question, anyone have the correct MPOW T5 link to U.S. Amazon, thanks


----------



## Alphasoixante

SaveTheMantaRays said:


> Also: A side question, anyone have the correct MPOW T5 link to U.S. Amazon, thanks



https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07SR1FTD4/ref=cm_sw_em_r_mt_dp_U_YFLlDbTB8HXW0


----------



## beowulf (Jul 16, 2019)

actorlife said:


> Those are not truly wireless. They have wires.



Well my criteria for these toys focuses mostly on transport alone.
They're IEM-ish and Bluetooth with no wired connection to the source, so that's "wireless IEM" enough to me. Is there a wire in the setup? Yes, definitely not the same as Airpods or Galaxy Buds, etc.

Does it matter if you're focusing on "Wireless IEMs"? Not really, because they're IEM's and there's a wireless connection to the source.

But I see your point tho, if one wants fully separate "buds" with no pairing wires, then it's not a match. But there are quite a few interesting "wireless" setups with a L-R loop.
Those come with a few disadvantages and also a few pros (no L/R lag/synch issues being one of the most obvious). It will all depend on the use cases - full wire avoidance might be a drawback for some scenarios, but advantageous in others. Sure is nice to pocket those fully separate buds sometimes. Hmm.

TL;DR: The "wireless" concept is getting a bit too restrictive.


----------



## hifi80sman

turbobb said:


> tsk tsk... I'm sure I don't need to point out that you have too much white space in that pic, I mean, it's quite obvious:
> 
> you're missing 4 right off the bat
> to add insult to injury, you can easily add two more rows worth of TWE's up top and down below
> not to mention if you tighten the formation a bit, one more column...


HAHA!  The more I'm on this forum, the greater the chance of that happening!


----------



## actorlife

SaveTheMantaRays said:


> Update:  My Anbes 359 have a problem, so watch out.
> 
> One of the three golden charge connectors on the left bud has fallen out of its placement and now rattles around
> inside the ear chamber.  Strangely everything still works, and sounds the same, but I am sure the left bud doesn't
> ...


Can you get them replaced? Is it Anbes with the Blackbox or a rebranded?


----------



## clerkpalmer

jant71 said:


> We been over this already sir  you said $200 + and I said $169 at release. Price will drop as well.





hifi80sman said:


> OK, so here is my current list (in no particular order within each tier):
> 
> *Tier 1 - Big Boys*
> Sennheiser MTW
> ...




Of the tier 1a which has the best sq?


----------



## Caipirina

hifi80sman said:


> OK, so here is my current list (in no particular order within each tier):
> 
> *Tier 1 - Big Boys*
> Sennheiser MTW
> ...


I feel better now about not being the only hoarder ... collector I mean 

Those Blitzwolf are the same as Syllable s101? And the Xiker look like the Nillkin Go 

Maybe I need to update my list with a tidier picture and include ‘the rest’


----------



## vstolpner

Caipirina said:


> I feel better now about not being the only hoarder ... collector I mean
> 
> Those Blitzwolf are the same as Syllable s101? And the Xiker look like the Nillkin Go
> 
> Maybe I need to update my list with a tidier picture and include ‘the rest’



We should really come up with a way to call you guys.... Colloarders.... Hoarectors.... Hmm... Maybe I should keep thinking on the name


----------



## snip3r77

hifi80sman said:


> OK, so here is my current list (in no particular order within each tier):
> 
> *Tier 1 - Big Boys*
> Sennheiser MTW
> ...



*Tier 1A - Can Play with the Big Boys*
MPOW T5
Astrotec S80
Anbes 359
AUKEY T10

I'm looking at the 359. I think any of the 1A list would be great for anyone right?


----------



## Sandbox2

Is there an adapter that I could use that someone could recommend that would turn my 2 pin iems into wireless?


----------



## Veyska

Sandbox2 said:


> Is there an adapter that I could use that someone could recommend that would turn my 2 pin iems into wireless?


TRN BT20/BT20S.  (The latter has AptX I believe, but the former's got AAC which is still solid and costs less.)


----------



## vstolpner

Sandbox2 said:


> Is there an adapter that I could use that someone could recommend that would turn my 2 pin iems into wireless?





Veyska said:


> TRN BT20/BT20S.  (The latter has AptX I believe, but the former's got AAC which is still solid and costs less.)



Was going to suggest the same. I use the BT20 and it's fantastic.

BT20S also has IPX5 water resistance

Just make sure you get the right 2pin version - 0.75mm or 0.78mm


----------



## Shanling

Hi everybody, so I see talk about our new TWS MTW100 showed up in this thread already. 

Firstly, regarding difference between Shanling MTW100 and O4:

We added more controls, so while O4 can only play/pause, we added previous and next track.
O4 faceplate is metal, we opted for lighter plastic, that should also in theory assure better BT connection.
We have completely different drivers and sound tuning.
We offer version with Balanced armature, that also has slightly better battery life.

If you have any questions about Shanling MTW100, like some details about modes, parings, etc, just @ me and I will do my best to reply to you.



Dcell7 said:


> Shanling is releasing a TWS



Thanks for repost.



vstolpner said:


> Seems they look a little different, but may be just differences in photos. I did notice the mifo O4 has ambient mode. So I'm curious what chipset it's using.
> 
> Seems both mifo O4 and Shanling MTW100 are getting released soon. Can't wait!!!!



Inside is Realtek.

We plan first release on Chinese market during august. If everything goes alright, international release will follow during September.




PopZeus said:


> Any word on pricing for the mifo O4 or Shanling MTW100?



Both MTW100 will be slightly under 100USD, Balanced version about 10 USD more expensive than DD. But they will also come with two very different sound tuning.


----------



## vstolpner

Shanling said:


> Hi everybody, so I see talk about our new TWS MTW100 showed up in this thread already.
> 
> Firstly, regarding difference between Shanling MTW100 and O4:
> 
> ...



Thanks for the updates!!
I've seen mentions of Knowles BA driver - can you confirm which driver its going to be?
And regarding controls - touch controls? And volume control?


----------



## igorneumann

Is your MIFO BA or DD?

I have the BA version (TFZ X1) and would like to know if thats the one you compared.



Caipirina said:


> *Class one: *
> Mpow T5
> Tranya T3
> anbes 359
> ...


----------



## FYLegend

Decided to bite the bullet on the Jabees Firefly Pro. If all goes will it will mean byebye to the Jabra 65t and Galaxy Buds (which I was considering until I saw that 200$ CAD price and the lack if discounts since launch)...


hifi80sman said:


> I don't foresee Audio-Technica releasing USB C any time soon.  Even their latest products feature Micro USB.  It seems like they are aware it's a market impact, so they go out of their way to simply state "USB charging cable".
> 
> The typical tagline is cost, but given many dirt cheap Chi-Fi units already have USB C, it may be more along the lines of already purchased, or obligated to purchase, Micro USB stock.
> 
> Sony, however, has moved over, it seems completely, to USB C.  Gotta give them credit.


Those Chi-Fi units aren't fully USB-C, they just use the Type C connector and only charge through a Type A connection. It only costs a bit more to implement but the smaller OEMs may be unwilling to invest. Add this to the fact that Chi-Fi brands are getting their shells and cases pre-made and likely won't invest in redesigning them. A true Type C to Type C connection that supports PD costs considerably more and I'm not sure who has implemented this aside from bigger companies like Sony. It makes all the difference if you are using a Macbook or Google Pixel (though I personally don't fall under either of these categories).

As pointed out by others AT did announce that new True Wireless recently, but my quip is that it's branded as a bass-tuned product and we'll probably need to wait another year or two for more products. I hate to say it but AT is like the Nintendo or Canon of headphones - they have some innovative ideas but fall short due to some old-school conservative or proprietary decision. Sony on the other hand tends to be cutting edge but their QC and materials isn't always up to par with their tech (AT is notorious for creaking hinges, but outside of IM70 I find the QC of their drivers quite reliable).


----------



## FYLegend

Will Knowles BA driver still have deep bass? I was surprised how deep Astrotec S60 BA drivers sounded.


----------



## igorneumann

Except this thread is for the ones without wires in the setup... there are dozens of other threads for the other types.

Isn't fair at all to trow a setup with wires to the mix as a 30$ hybrid unit of those ones (ZSN with APTX adapter) would crush pretty much anything without that wire, making any comparison meaningless.

Dont get me wrong, I truly LOVE those and use them way more than the TWS ones, but isn't what we are looking for in this thread.



beowulf said:


> Well my criteria for these toys focuses mostly on transport alone.
> They're IEM-ish and Bluetooth with no wired connection to the source, so that's "wireless IEM" enough to me. Is there a wire in the setup? Yes, definitely not the same as Airpods or Galaxy Buds, etc.
> 
> Does it matter if you're focusing on "Wireless IEMs"? Not really, because they're IEM's and there's a wireless connection to the source.
> ...


----------



## Shanling

vstolpner said:


> Thanks for the updates!!
> I've seen mentions of Knowles BA driver - can you confirm which driver its going to be?
> And regarding controls - touch controls? And volume control?



Don't have it's product number right now, will check with engineer.

Yes, touch controls.
No volume control.


----------



## vstolpner (Jul 17, 2019)

FYLegend said:


> Will Knowles BA driver still have deep bass? I was surprised how deep Astrotec S60 BA drivers sounded.



Knowles typically has better dynamic range than other brand BA units, but there's a cost premium. of course it depends on which Knowles driver they're using (they have full range drivers, dedicated high/low/mid drivers, etc)


Edit: the S60 is a Knowles BA driver


----------



## vstolpner

Shanling said:


> Don't have it's product number right now, will check with engineer.
> 
> Yes, touch controls.
> No volume control.



Darn, was going for the reverse on both of those 

Look forward to hearing which driver it is... Knowles BA TWS is at the top of my list right now, so I'm very interested


----------



## Shanling

vstolpner said:


> Knowles typically has better dynamic range than other brand BA units, but there's a cost premium. of course it depends on which Knowles driver they're using (they have full range drivers, dedicated high/low/mid drivers, etc)



As it's single driver construction, we are using dedicated fullrange driver.

If you are looking for best deep bass, I would say go with the DD version.


----------



## Soreniglio

falang said:


> I wonder why the Edifier TWS5 cost more than the TWS1 with smaller drivers? Is smaller better than larger? Or is it because of the updated Qualcomm chip?


I'm curios about the same thing, maybe someone can help us through


----------



## hifi80sman

clerkpalmer said:


> Of the tier 1a which has the best sq?


They're all close, but I find myself reaching for the MPOW T5 the most.  It's the most balanced and plays well with both Android (aptX) and iPhone (AAC).


----------



## hifi80sman

snip3r77 said:


> *Tier 1A - Can Play with the Big Boys*
> MPOW T5
> Astrotec S80
> Anbes 359
> ...


For _*anyone?*_  Well, I'd say all of them except for the Astrotec S80.  They are brighter than typical consumer tuning, however, they have the best clarity.  They also seem to be hit or miss when it comes to fit, although they fit me great.  They are harder to recommend to the masses, but they are great earbuds.

Can't go wrong with the other 3.


----------



## vstolpner

Shanling said:


> As it's single driver construction, we are using dedicated fullrange driver.
> 
> If you are looking for best deep bass, I would say go with the DD version.



Thanks, just looking for  "deep for a BA". I prefer the clarity of BA drivers over the deep base of dynamics


----------



## FYLegend

hifi80sman said:


> For _*anyone?*_  Well, I'd say all of them except for the Astrotec S80.  They are brighter than typical consumer tuning, however, they have the best clarity.  They also seem to be hit or miss when it comes to fit, although they fit me great.  They are harder to recommend to the masses, but they are great earbuds.
> 
> Can't go wrong with the other 3.


How do the T10 sound vs 359 and Sabbat E12?


----------



## Dcell7

Shanling said:


> As it's single driver construction, we are using dedicated fullrange driver.
> 
> If you are looking for best deep bass, I would say go with the DD version.



Will there be an ambient mode ?


----------



## tsoltan

Shanling said:


> Hi everybody, so I see talk about our new TWS MTW100 showed up in this thread already.
> 
> Firstly, regarding difference between Shanling MTW100 and O4:
> 
> ...


No APTX? =(((


----------



## Shanling

Dcell7 said:


> Will there be an ambient mode ?



Yes, they have it.



tsoltan said:


> No APTX? =(((



Unfortunately not in this model.


----------



## vstolpner

Shanling said:


> Yes, they have it.
> 
> 
> 
> Unfortunately not in this model.



Will the ambient mode work while music is playing or only when paused?


----------



## vstolpner

Alphasoixante said:


> Has anyone heard anything about these HELM TWEs?
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07RN1C61P/ref=cm_sw_em_r_mt_dp_U_Wq4kDbFY17GAN



They're on sale now on Amazon.com

https://smile.amazon.com/HELM-Audio-Headphones-Unparalleled-Comfortable/dp/B07KGK48RK


----------



## Shanling

vstolpner said:


> Will the ambient mode work while music is playing or only when paused?



Once enabled(hold finger on touch sensor for few seconds), it will be enabled until turned off. No matter if you are playing music or not.


----------



## Caipirina

igorneumann said:


> Is your MIFO BA or DD?
> 
> I have the BA version (TFZ X1) and would like to know if thats the one you compared.


It’s the BA (pro) version


----------



## clerkpalmer

vstolpner said:


> They're on sale now on Amazon.com
> 
> https://smile.amazon.com/HELM-Audio-Headphones-Unparalleled-Comfortable/dp/B07KGK48RK


SBC only? Fail.


----------



## Heisenberg1895

Been hunting high and low and can't fine any Aneb 359 anywhere (I'm in the UK) ive been trawling google all day. 
Would rather but then in the UK if possible but don't mind importing if there's no other option.
Currently have TRANYA T3. So if u think I'd be better off just sticking with those please also say.
Thanks


----------



## Judge Buff

riodgarp said:


> did you feels like you're swimming or something similiar using kz's eartips with mifo o5 pro?


If you’re referring to pressure within my ear, there is a gradual accumulation, but it’s no different than several IEMs I’ve owned. I typically just pull up on the top of my ear to release pressure and reseat the phone. 

The only negative here is that the tips are too large for the charging case to close correctly. This is also true for spin-fit and similar tips.


----------



## FunctionalDoc (Jul 17, 2019)

I received the *1MORE Stylish True Wireless Earbuds today from Amazon*.
*
Impressions:*
Nice packaging
Quality feel in the build
Easy pairing to both my Hiby R6 Pro and  Fiio M6
Charging case nice feel and size  and string magnets for holding the earbuds in place.

Major Fail on Bluetooth range on these devices inside less then 10 feet and yes my house doesn't have steel studs or made out of concrete block.and  I streamed Tidal on WiFi  and then USB Audio Pro with the WiFi off and no change in receive range.

The biggest issue is the low playing volume vert low level compared to my Nural NT01AX-BM HDSS True Wireless.

I tried them because of the Prime day discount.

I suggest that when people give recommendations on on connectivity tell what phones or DAP's they used and was inside or outside and there dwelling construction. I don't expect 60 ft inside just at least 15-20 ft without signal loss or stuttering.

I noticed on my Nural NT01AX-BM HDSS True Wireless  that cost a lot at $160 the range is poor on my Pixel XL version 1 and my R6 Pro vs the Fiio M6 which is rock solid and go anywhere in the house without a stutter or  a drop. I was using Apt X on all devices in testing.

Love the sound of Nural NT01AX-BM HDSS True Wireless since is not overemphasizing  any frequency range put can hit the low end when needed. https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07QK89X59/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

I haven't decided yest if the Nural's are going back and try MPOW T5's or the new Sony's.

I am looking for great sound , connectivity  and build quality. Call quality is bonus.

Thanks for letting me share.


----------



## srinivasvignesh

I did not get in on the prime deal for mpow t5 (was too late)...  If anyone wants to part with theirs, please ping me directly via PM


----------



## clerkpalmer

srinivasvignesh said:


> I did not get in on the prime deal for mpow t5 (was too late)...  If anyone wants to part with theirs, please ping me directly via PM


Can’t find the t5 model on amazon. Anyone have a link?


----------



## FunctionalDoc

clerkpalmer said:


> Can’t find the t5 model on amazon. Anyone have a link?



I missed the deal and I looked at it :
https://www.amazon.com/Mpow-Bluetoo...coding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=4F4JBEBA131AZNMW9YHQ


----------



## vstolpner

Heisenberg1895 said:


> Been hunting high and low and can't fine any Aneb 359 anywhere (I'm in the UK) ive been trawling google all day.
> Would rather but then in the UK if possible but don't mind importing if there's no other option.
> Currently have TRANYA T3. So if u think I'd be better off just sticking with those please also say.
> Thanks



The 359 and the T3 are somewhat similar but do have their own sound signature. They both have good base (with 359 being a touch less bassy but a fair bit more balanced). They both have good soundstage (359 a touch wider I think.... Still playing with it). The 359's are smaller but T3'S buttons are easier to press. The 359's case is more pocketable.

Up to you if you want both. But if you're looking for more balanced signature, maybe ask someone between the 359 and the MPOW T5. In fact that comparison may have already been explained here


----------



## joshnor713

Anyone else with the Senn MTW do the new firmware 1.26 update? Am I crazy or is there a significant taming to the bass? I noticed right away after the update that the SQ is better. Bass doesn't sound as bloaty (which has long been my biggest pet-peeve of this earphone), and treble is clearer (this could be a result of the toned-down bass). Pretty sure I'm not crazy. These sound fantastic to me now, where they sounded just above-average before.


----------



## oranelle

FunctionalDoc said:


> I missed the deal and I looked at it :
> https://www.amazon.com/Mpow-Bluetoo...coding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=4F4JBEBA131AZNMW9YHQ



You don't miss a lot. I monitered prime price. They are 44.5 last night and 45~ today.


----------



## srinivasvignesh

oranelle said:


> You don't miss a lot. I monitered prime price. They are 44.5 last night and 45~ today.



Actually prime day price was $36. Lasted a few hours only though. Before I could actually check out, it was back to this price.


----------



## oranelle

I'm waiting for my mpow T5. Will post compare to adv model x and creative outlier air.


----------



## oranelle

srinivasvignesh said:


> Actually prime day price was $36. Lasted a few hours only though. Before I could actually check out, it was back to this price.



I thought it was T3. Holy cow, lost million $


----------



## srinivasvignesh

oranelle said:


> I thought it was T3. Holy cow, lost million $



When you buy and sell a lot, especially to experiment, I do not know about you. But, every $ counts.


----------



## actorlife

Shanling No volume controls and no aptx? I already have that it's the Funcl W1, which has great EQ.


----------



## oranelle

srinivasvignesh said:


> When you buy and sell a lot, especially to experiment, I do not know about you. But, every $ counts.


absolutely correct! Feel like losing a lot when picked it up 40+...My monitering failed.


----------



## clerkpalmer

clerkpalmer said:


> This appears to be a new model with anc. Seems interesting.



These look really cool.  UK only which is very weird to me.  Must not have US BT certification yet?


----------



## albau

actorlife said:


> Shanling No volume controls and no aptx? I already have that it's the Funcl W1, which has great EQ.


This, T5, others. I may understand no AptX (chip) or USB-C (hardware), but what is so hard about volume control? How it's different from skipping tracks? Cheaper ChiFis like 359 or qs2 do this.


----------



## actorlife

albau said:


> This, T5, others. I may understand no AptX (chip) or USB-C (hardware), but what is so hard about volume control? How it's different from skipping tracks? Cheaper ChiFis like 359 or qs2 do this.


That's why I recommend these cheap chi-fi cause most of the time they have more features and way cheaper. Most of us don't have Bose, Sony, AT money + We can get 4-6 different TWS at those 150-300 price range.


----------



## Heisenberg1895

vstolpner said:


> The 359 and the T3 are somewhat similar but do have their own sound signature. They both have good base (with 359 being a touch less bassy but a fair bit more balanced). They both have good soundstage (359 a touch wider I think.... Still playing with it). The 359's are smaller but T3'S buttons are easier to press. The 359's case is more pocketable.
> 
> Up to you if you want both. But if you're looking for more balanced signature, maybe ask someone between the 359 and the MPOW T5. In fact that comparison may have already been explained here


Sounds good. But I still have the problem of locating a pair of 359"s lol


----------



## vstolpner

albau said:


> This, T5, others. I may understand no AptX (chip) or USB-C (hardware), but what is so hard about volume control? How it's different from skipping tracks? Cheaper ChiFis like 359 or qs2 do this.



I suspect they did that due to limited controls. Mentioned that ambient mode is enabled with a long press and track skipping by double tap. Doesn't leave many options for volume control.

And, having never tried Aptx, I don't mind it not being there. But that's due to using Realtek chip, which is fine by me.


----------



## vstolpner

Heisenberg1895 said:


> Sounds good. But I still have the problem of locating a pair of 359"s lol



I think AliExpress is your only option. A few people have been tried to find an original Anbes 359 in this thread from the AliExpress sellers... Search back a few days to a week - I think I recall someone found them.

Alternatively I believe Kissral (K18?) Are the same thing.


----------



## actorlife (Jul 17, 2019)

Heisenberg1895 said:


> Sounds good. But I still have the problem of locating a pair of 359"s lol


Man I hope you can get a pair they have been off Amazon for a month. I've seen a couple on ebay. I think someone linked aliexpress.com as well, but maybe out of stock too. You might want to check Kissral version they seem to be the same sound sig. On sale on amazon:
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07N1GXXFN/ref=cm_sw_r_sms_apa_i_lW0lDbM1A863T
1 359 left on ebay Whoa:
https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https://www.ebay.com/ulk/itm/163714122156


----------



## albau

actorlife said:


> That's why I recommend these cheap chi-fi cause most of the time they have more features and way cheaper. Most of us don't have Bose, Sony, AT money + We can get 4-6 different TWS at those 150-300 price range.


Man, Shanling, MPOW T5, etc are also cheap ChiFi, just maybe $10-20 more expensive than 359, and still skip on volume control. Bugs me why. If they have AAC, and most do, I really don't care about AptX since with a single cheap dynamic microdriver and a compressed streaming source in a typical noisy environment it doesn't make any real sonic difference. And most modern Android versions support AAC. But while working out trying to find by touch volume buttons on your phone in a pocket or reaching it out when it's stowed away from the weights is a real nuisance.


----------



## actorlife (Jul 17, 2019)

albau said:


> Man, Shanling, MPOW T5, etc are also cheap ChiFi, just maybe $10-20 more expensive than 359, and still skip on volume control. Bugs me why. If they have AAC, and most do, I really don't care about AptX since with a single cheap dynamic microdriver and a compressed streaming source in a typical noisy environment it doesn't make any real sonic difference. And most modern Android versions support AAC. But while working out trying to find by touch volume buttons on your phone in a pocket or reaching it out when it's stowed away from the weights is a real nuisance.


It's funny I got those Funcl W1 for $25 Indiegogo and now amazon is selling them for $45. But yeah it's unexcusable to not have vol control or at least given an option to have it. That's the reason my Funcl doesn't get used as much and the SQ is really good too. Also the Anbes does not have aptx and still manages to sound incredible. I'm also a stickler on battery being at least 7HRS or more on newer products.


----------



## Heisenberg1895

Chttps://m.aliexpress.com/item/32966...d=3444amp-ZElegnEN7JDz28JCdM8M1w1563383435876ould anyone in the know please tell me if these are genuine 359's before I pull the trigger. Thanks.


----------



## wes1099

Hmm, I just found this thread after ordering the jabra elite 65t on the prime day sale for $119. How bad have I played myself? The MPOW T5 and Funcl W1 look like they might be just as good if not better and they cost a lot less... And I just saw the TWS600....


----------



## actorlife

Heisenberg1895 said:


> Chttps://m.aliexpress.com/item/32966...d=3444amp-ZElegnEN7JDz28JCdM8M1w1563383435876ould anyone in the know please tell me if these are genuine 359's before I pull the trigger. Thanks.


No Anbes logo I would stay away. Also before you buy ask the seller for a pic of the box. Box should be in black with Anbes name.


----------



## clerkpalmer

wes1099 said:


> Hmm, I just found this thread after ordering the jabra elite 65t on the prime day sale for $119. How bad have I played myself? The MPOW T5 and Funcl W1 look like they might be just as good if not better and they cost a lot less... And I just saw the TWS600....


You did fine. That’s a great price and that’s a very good choice. Can’t comment directly on the mpow but reviews on the tws600 are pretty mixed. Apparently they may have shrill highs and tuned for little bass. I am staying away from those.


----------



## actorlife

wes1099 said:


> Hmm, I just found this thread after ordering the jabra elite 65t on the prime day sale for $119. How bad have I played myself? The MPOW T5 and Funcl W1 look like they might be just as good if not better and they cost a lot less... And I just saw the TWS600....


The best option is Kissral R18 on sale at Amazon for $29. Unless you want to pay 40 for the Anbes 359 on eBay, which I highly recommend.


----------



## Heisenberg1895

actorlife said:


> No Anbes logo I would stay away. Also before you buy ask the seller for a pic of the box. Box should be in black with Anbes name.


Ok thanks very much. The hunt continues


----------



## actorlife (Jul 17, 2019)

Heisenberg1895 said:


> Ok thanks very much. The hunt continues


Did you contact that seller you linked? You never know.
Edit
Check with this seller and ask for a discount if they are the real deal: https://www.aliexpress.com/i/32967888433.html


----------



## hifi80sman

joshnor713 said:


> Anyone else with the Senn MTW do the new firmware 1.26 update? Am I crazy or is there a significant taming to the bass? I noticed right away after the update that the SQ is better. Bass doesn't sound as bloaty (which has long been my biggest pet-peeve of this earphone), and treble is clearer (this could be a result of the toned-down bass). Pretty sure I'm not crazy. These sound fantastic to me now, where they sounded just above-average before.


I had the same "feeling", although I wasn't sure if it was just placebo effect.  Glad to see there was someone else that had the same impressions.


----------



## wes1099

clerkpalmer said:


> You did fine. That’s a great price and that’s a very good choice. Can’t comment directly on the mpow but reviews on the tws600 are pretty mixed. Apparently they may have shrill highs and tuned for little bass. I am staying away from those.


Oh I haven't seen the TWS600 reviews, probably wise to stay away from them if they have mixed reviews. My jabra elite 65t arrives tomorrow and I think I'll be satisfied with them because my beat-up jaybird x3's are barely functional anymore.


----------



## wes1099

actorlife said:


> The best option is Kissral R18 on sale at Amazon for $29. Unless you want to pay 40 for the Anbes 359 on eBay, which I highly recommend.


For $29 I might get the Kissral R18 as well. I can actually get them for $26 since I have an Amazon employee discount.


----------



## actorlife

wes1099 said:


> For $29 I might get the Kissral R18 as well. I can actually get them for $26 since I have an Amazon employee discount.


Great deal those are usually $40-45. Can't wait to hear your impressions if you do get them.


----------



## Heisenberg1895

actorlife said:


> Did you contact that seller you linked? You never know.
> Edit
> Check with this seller and ask for a discount if they are the real deal: https://www.aliexpress.com/i/32967888433.html


Says not available


----------



## hifi80sman

albau said:


> Man, Shanling, MPOW T5, etc are also cheap ChiFi, just maybe $10-20 more expensive than 359, and still skip on volume control. Bugs me why. If they have AAC, and most do, I really don't care about AptX since with a single cheap dynamic microdriver and a compressed streaming source in a typical noisy environment it doesn't make any real sonic difference. And most modern Android versions support AAC. But while working out trying to find by touch volume buttons on your phone in a pocket or reaching it out when it's stowed away from the weights is a real nuisance.


The MPOW T5 has aptX, volume control, and cVc 8.0.  Uses the Qualcomm 3026 SoC.  Are you thinking about the Tranya T3?


----------



## actorlife

Heisenberg1895 said:


> Says not available


Maybe popup blocker? Maybe try another browser? It's working on my side on Chrome.


----------



## hifi80sman

wes1099 said:


> Hmm, I just found this thread after ordering the jabra elite 65t on the prime day sale for $119. How bad have I played myself? The MPOW T5 and Funcl W1 look like they might be just as good if not better and they cost a lot less... And I just saw the TWS600....


You make it sound as if you only intend to have 1 pair of 'buds.  Get both!


----------



## hifi80sman (Jul 17, 2019)

clerkpalmer said:


> SBC only? Fail.


Looks like there are 2 versions.  Still, for $129, I don't see anything here the MPOW T5 can't do at $40ish.

Old Version (BT 4.1)
https://smile.amazon.com/HELM-Audio-Headphones-Unparalleled-Comfortable/dp/B07KGK48RK

New Version (BT 5.0, aptX)
https://www.amazon.com/HELM-Headphones-Audiophile-Sweatproof-Auto-Pairing/dp/B07RN1C61P/


----------



## Bartig

Guys! Stop making Anbes bigger than it is. Anbes puts its name on EVERYTHING. Even the cheapest 1 dollar earphones which smell like paint.

This pictured XG-13 was also advertised as Anbes, but it's just a totally generic product. 

As is any other Anbes. I'm sure it's safe to buy the other UFO designs. They're all the same, just a rebranded model that is called Air+ in your Bluetooth list. It's really nothing special.


----------



## clerkpalmer

hifi80sman said:


> Looks like there are 2 versions.  Still, for $129, I don't see anything here the MPOW T5 can't do at $40ish.
> 
> Old Version (BT 4.1)
> https://smile.amazon.com/HELM-Audio-Headphones-Unparalleled-Comfortable/dp/B07KGK48RK
> ...


Good catch. But 130 is a whole different ball of wax.


----------



## Heisenberg1895

actorlife said:


> Maybe popup blocker? Maybe try another browser? It's working on my side on Chrome.


Ok. So I've messaged about 4 sellers just gotta wait an see now. Strangely enough the all have great feedback buy none of the photos have the logo on


----------



## Heisenberg1895

Dunno wether it's worth all the hassle now tbh.  Maybe i should just get the mpow t5  or stick with the TRANYA t3???


----------



## hifi80sman

Looks like another Anbes 359 clone, but with a cylindrical case.
https://www.amazon.com/Wireless-Bluetooth-Earphones-Aluminum-Sweatproof/dp/B07RLDXH5G/


----------



## hifi80sman

clerkpalmer said:


> Good catch. But 130 is a whole different ball of wax.


If you're down for $129, then may as well pony up for the RHA TrueConnect at $169.  They sound great, with the exception being some people say there is a bit of an echo to my voice during calls.


----------



## albau

hifi80sman said:


> The MPOW T5 has aptX, volume control, and cVc 8.0.  Uses the Qualcomm 3026 SoC.  Are you thinking about the Tranya T3?


Oh, my bad! Thanks for pointing it out. It wasn't clear from the Amazon page if T5 have volume control. Damn, that's the only reason I ordered Tranya T3 since it clearly had vol controls in pictures. I use 359 as gym backup for my beloved MW07 but after few months Anbes started to literally fall apart (buttons, case cover, sudden spurious reconnects). Guess there's no $24.99 lunch for this sound quality. So I was looking for another cheapish backup. But bass-beastly Tranyas weren't my first choice vs T5 judging by everything I learned about them here and on youtube. Luckily Tranyas are still in rout so I'll just send them back unpacked and will order T5. Thanks again, @hifi80sman.


----------



## Boreaquis (Jul 17, 2019)

chinmie said:


> Nillkin Go is not too isolating and for me personally is superior sounding to the X12, but it still have silicone tips, though not deep insertion. also it still has micro usb



I'm pretty close to pulling the trigger on the Nillkin Go. At $30, they seem pretty tempting. Any chance of a more detailed review?

If I recall correctly, you sold me on the Sabbat X12 last year, which I've been very happy with. I'm looking for an upgrade on my Havit I93 though, which doesn't quite have the same audio quality (and lacks volume control).

EDIT: Searched the thread for all your posts about it, and decided to order. Less than $30 shipped with ePacket means I can't complain about the price at least.


----------



## vstolpner

Bartig said:


> Guys! Stop making Anbes bigger than it is. Anbes puts its name on EVERYTHING. Even the cheapest 1 dollar earphones which smell like paint.
> 
> This pictured XG-13 was also advertised as Anbes, but it's just a totally generic product.
> 
> As is any other Anbes. I'm sure it's safe to buy the other UFO designs. They're all the same, just a rebranded model that is called Air+ in your Bluetooth list. It's really nothing special.



In fairness, no one is talking about Anbes in general - the high praise is specifically about the Anbes 359. They also show up as "ANBES 359" in Bluetooth list, not Air+. And people that ended up receiving differently branded UFO models, weren't too happy with them (exception being Kissral).


----------



## Heisenberg1895

Also noticed there are Mpow T6"s.
But judging by the price etc I'm guessing the T5 are still the better model?


----------



## hifi80sman

albau said:


> Oh, my bad! Thanks for pointing it out. It wasn't clear from the Amazon page if T5 have volume control. Damn, that's the only reason I ordered Tranya T3 since it clearly had vol controls in pictures. I use 359 as gym backup for my beloved MW07 but after few months Anbes started to literally fall apart (buttons, case cover, sudden spurious reconnects). Guess there's no $24.99 lunch for this sound quality. So I was looking for another cheapish backup. But bass-beastly Tranyas weren't my first choice vs T5 judging by everything I learned about them here and on youtube. Luckily Tranyas are still in rout so I'll just send them back unpacked and will order T5. Thanks again, @hifi80sman.


You mention the gym and the MPOW T5 get LOUD, REALLY LOUD.

FYI

Vol Control:  Double Click Right = Vol+  /  Double Click Left = Vol-

Track Skip:  Long Press Right = Fwd  /  Long Press Left = Back

GYM BEAST MODE = ACTIVATED


----------



## hifi80sman

Heisenberg1895 said:


> Also noticed there are Mpow T6"s.
> But judging by the price etc I'm guessing the T5 are still the better model?


Never tried the T6, but judging by the price and features, the T5 is their superior model.  Clearly, there is no naming consistency.


----------



## Heisenberg1895

So. I got like 15 minutes to order the T5s if i want them tomorrow.  Will mean returning the TRANYA t3s so need to be sure before I go for it


----------



## d3myz

hifi80sman said:


> Looks like there are 2 versions.  Still, for $129, I don't see anything here the MPOW T5 can't do at $40ish.
> 
> Old Version (BT 4.1)
> https://smile.amazon.com/HELM-Audio-Headphones-Unparalleled-Comfortable/dp/B07KGK48RK
> ...


I saw that too and I was super confused by the BT 4.1.


----------



## Heisenberg1895

Oh well. I went for the t5s  I'll give em both a listen and return the ones I don't like i guess lol


----------



## hifi80sman

Couple of interesting prospects.  Anyone tried either of these yet?

https://www.amazon.com/Bluetooth-He...ced-Water-Resistant-Microphone/dp/B07SZTJMQG/

https://www.amazon.com/Bluetooth-Headphones-TAGRY-Wireless-Earphones/dp/B07TGK5C66/


----------



## Soreniglio (Jul 17, 2019)

I noticed that both Audiocart and Official Anbes store removed the writing "anbes" on the shell of the charging case pics.

Great, just great.

Is there any chance that I might receive the Kissral rebrand instead? Coolhere worries me quite a bit.

Hopefully my QCY will be good, battery life worries me a bit, I heard Anbes reached 4.5 hours per charge...

How's the sound signature of QCY? I read that it is quite balanced, is that so?


----------



## Heisenberg1895

Soreniglio said:


> I noticed that both Audiocart and Official Anbes store removed the writing "anbes" on the shell of the charging case pics.
> 
> Great, just great.



This


----------



## Bartig

vstolpner said:


> In fairness, no one is talking about Anbes in general - the high praise is specifically about the Anbes 359. They also show up as "ANBES 359" in Bluetooth list, not Air+. And people that ended up receiving differently branded UFO models, weren't too happy with them (exception being Kissral).





Soreniglio said:


> I noticed that both Audiocart and Official Anbes store removed the writing "anbes" on the shell of the charging case pics.
> 
> Great, just great.
> 
> ...


I ordered them, got them without branding and once I put the right ear tips on, the sound is as more people here described before. Airy, balanced, not too bassy. So I just awarded them five stars in my review. Brand or no brand on the box.

For what it's worth.


----------



## FYLegend (Jul 17, 2019)

Soreniglio said:


> I noticed that both Audiocart and Official Anbes store removed the writing "anbes" on the shell of the charging case pics.
> 
> Great, just great.
> 
> ...


You'll probably receive Coolhere or Letscom BE30 which people are reporting from Anbes 3C as well. Anbes Official tells me it is still not rebrand, but I have my doubts since "Can Peng" is the person that responds in both Audiocart and Anbes Official, but if that case they're probably pretending they're not aware of my other conversation. Audiocart just keeps telling me "it's the exact same product, just the warehouse is sending a new version, sorry we will offer big discount because it was probably damaged while shipping". I've never heard of IEMs drivers damaging due to shipping so it's one of the worst excuses I've seen.

I think rebranding is not as much a concern as defects like bass imbalance. So far I've seen a few reviews of receiving rebrands from Anbes 3C but nobody has reported defects like mine. There was another user here who thought the unbranded UFO they received sounded lacking in bass and not up to par with other TWS, but maybe that's more of a personal preference...

Is there another Anbes 359-type TWS that uses the exact same buds but a different case? Letscom has a BE32 which uses the same earpiece as their BE30, but the case is rectangular with up to 27 hours playback, but unfortunately only microUSB.


----------



## d3myz (Jul 17, 2019)

Heisenberg1895 said:


> So. I got like 15 minutes to order the T5s if i want them tomorrow.  Will mean returning the TRANYA t3s so need to be sure before I go for it


why not keep both? they are both pretty different IMO and i've been testing between all my TWS' including the T5 and everyone says the T3's have the best sound quality.


----------



## Spamateur (Jul 18, 2019)

Just got the Cambridge Audio Melomania 1 in today to compare with my Mavin Air-X. These are both going for similar prices right now (~$120-$130 USD) so I feel like it's a good comparison.

Initial impressions are that the Melomania is quite decent. Low noise floor (some barely perceptible hiss) and I had a good fit with the included large silicone tips. I'll have to try the foam tips that came with the package but they look downright tiny so I doubt i'll have any luck with them.

Sound signature for the Cambridge is warm. The top end sounds good for the most part, but there's a moderate lack of air, definition and harmonic overtones to cymbals. They remind me of the RHA TrueConnect in this regard. There's a mid-focused character to the sound where vocals are quite intimate. It reminds me a lot of some of the older Empire Ears/Earwerks CIEM models which had a similar intimacy to the vocals. When it comes to bass, tonality is definitely on the thicker side, and has more of a broad mid-bass hump that most folks will like, but I honestly found it too thick and heavy for my personal taste. Unfortunately, the bass also bleeds into the mids to a moderate degree, giving some vocals a throaty or chesty sound. There's probably a dip in the upper mid frequency response somewhere that's causing this. Overall, it's very much a crowd-pleasing signature that's easy on the ears, but lacks the ultimate in resolution. The bass being overripe also compromises imaging and separation, as poorly-mixed or complex tracks can get a little confused and muddled.

In comparison, the Mavin has significantly more clarity, transparency and never sounds confused or muddled. The Air-X is on the warmer side of neutral but is much clearer, more resolving and even in tonality across the frequency spectrum. There's a bass hump but it's narrower in scope and lower in the frequency range with no bleed into the mids, so the presentation sounds clearer and more balanced. There's a good sense of treble air without seeming bright or spotlit on the Mavin in general, and it's certainly a notable difference from the Melomania which sounds a bit closed-in in comparison. The Air-X also really excels at soundstage by IEM standards, whereas the Cambridge sounds a bit more close-mic'd although is more than acceptable in that regard. Sound-wise, you can probably tell I think the Air-X is the better performer.

When it comes to build quality, the Cambridge is significantly better. The glossy plastic case and earphone shells in the Air-X feels chintzy and cheap whereas the Cambridge model's plastic feels much higher quality with more of a solid feel. Both charging cases are small and convenient, but the Cambridge is delightfully tiny. The buttons on the Cambridge are also easier to press (maybe too easy) but it's nice not having to press too hard into your ear canal to change the volume or pause a track. I also get a better fit with the Cambridge compared to the Mavin, with the Cambridge I can see providing more long-term comfort, although as always YMMV.

The Mavin Air-X are still my gold standard in terms of sound quality. I just wish I could get that same quality in a TW model with better build quality and better noise isolation for air travel. The Cambridge are quite good for the price, but I don't think they're up to par when it comes to absolute sound quality. However, as usual, I'm not sure which one I'll keep. I like the fit and quality feel of the Cambridge, but the Mavin has a clarity that previously was only available in uber-expensive wired IEMs.

On a sidenote, it blows me away how good TW models are sounding these days. The wonders of digital signal processing as opposed to analog crossovers is really impressive and I think we'll get to the point where bulky "portable" IEM rigs will truly be a thing of the past.


----------



## FYLegend

Bartig said:


> I ordered them, got them without branding and once I put the right ear tips on, the sound is as more people here described before. Airy, balanced, not too bassy. So I just awarded them five stars in my review. Brand or no brand on the box.
> 
> For what it's worth.


Yeah, but I've been seeing some reports of deep thumping bass as well. Your description sounds like my right bud but the left bud has deep thumping bass which sounds as if it was digitally EQ'd rather than how it should be. There are some times where the driver flexes back and the bass sounds more balanced but highs are also lost on the left bud, and then it would flex back and it sounds too bassy again. Let's call it a feature! "8D true binaural surround woofer"...

The Womdee you listed in your review seems to be a different design from the typical BE30 UFOs.


----------



## Bartig

FYLegend said:


> Yeah, but I've been seeing some reports of deep thumping bass as well. Your description sounds like my right bud but the left bud has deep thumping bass which sounds as if it was digitally EQ'd rather than how it should be. There are some times where the driver flexes back and the bass sounds more balanced but highs are also lost on the left bud, and then it would flex back and it sounds too bassy again. Let's call it a feature! "8D true binaural surround woofer"...
> 
> The Womdee you listed in your review seems to be a different design from the typical BE30 UFOs.


About that bass... Don't forget it's in the ear of the beholder too. I lent my Honor xSport AM61 to a friend today. I find them bassy. He thinks they totally lack bass - even though he heard the bass right, so he has a good fit.

So many people, so many ears, so many other reference models. 

(Oh and oops. Will change the links, thanks!)


----------



## actorlife

Bartig said:


> I ordered them, got them without branding and once I put the right ear tips on, the sound is as more people here described before. Airy, balanced, not too bassy. So I just awarded them five stars in my review. Brand or no brand on the box.
> 
> For what it's worth.


I still think you should get the real anbes with the lettering on the case. Mine has volume control and sounds fantastic for music and movies sound excellent on Netflix. Call quality is good in a quiet place. Overall I'm glad you like them. Too bad you're not in the US I'd send you my pair to review.


----------



## Bartig

actorlife said:


> I still think you should get the real anbes with the lettering on the case. Mine has volume control and sounds fantastic for music and movies sound excellent on Netflix. Call quality is good in a quiet place. Overall I'm glad you like them. Too bad you're not in the US I'd send you my pair to review.


They sound great in movies! They have a delay on iPhone though.


----------



## actorlife (Jul 17, 2019)

Guys in 10 days. Well great news guys July 27 they will be back: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B...LWN2G&linkId=cd5c2fbde09f1ac3326c9e1426804258


----------



## actorlife (Jul 17, 2019)

Bartig said:


> They sound great in movies! They have a delay on iPhone though.


Ah OK, but in that section you gave 1 star for both call and movie use. I use mostly Android and my Aptx Cayin N3. So you might have gotten a good batch after all, except mine has volume control. Are you sure it doesn't have it on yours? Where have you seen them for $25? Price is $45 and when on sale $30-32.


----------



## FYLegend

Bartig said:


> About that bass... Don't forget it's in the ear of the beholder too. I lent my Honor xSport AM61 to a friend today. I find them bassy. He thinks they totally lack bass - even though he heard the bass right, so he has a good fit.
> 
> So many people, so many ears, so many other reference models.
> 
> (Oh and oops. Will change the links, thanks!)


Also, regarding your 359 review, have you tried holding the left or right earbud for 4 seconds to change volume until you hear a beep? That's how it works on my Coolhere UFO, which I find really cumbersome since if I hold too long it shuts them off, too short it stops the music. Sometimes the beep to signal volume has changed is VERY faint on my phone, and completely absent on my Windows 10 laptop. The original 359 and Letscom BE30 had double-tap to change volume.


----------



## vstolpner

actorlife said:


> Guys in 10 days. Well great news guys July 27 they will be back: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B...LWN2G&linkId=cd5c2fbde09f1ac3326c9e1426804258



Let's hope it's the real deal


----------



## actorlife

vstolpner said:


> Let's hope it's the real deal


I'm sure they are. I got mine on there. Those are gonna sellout quickly too. Just you watch. Better buy them now for gifts or backups.


----------



## vstolpner

actorlife said:


> I'm sure they are. I got mine on there. Those are gonna sellout quickly too. Just you watch. Better buy them now for gifts or backups.



I got mine there too... On sale no less 

But I'd rather pack out my ensemble with variety


----------



## actorlife

vstolpner said:


> I got mine there too... On sale no less
> 
> But I'd rather pack out my ensemble with variety


If they go down to 19.99 I'm sure getting a backup. I too like variety, but if it's great like those backup is cool to have. I've been lucky with mine, but I baby everything I have.


----------



## vstolpner

https://www.amazon.ca/gp/aw/d/B07NXCTFYV/


Anyone hear anything about these?
Look pretty tiny, Aptx...


----------



## rhsauer

hifi80sman said:


> You mention the gym and the MPOW T5 get LOUD, REALLY LOUD.
> 
> FYI
> 
> ...



Hi hifi80sman — are you sure your Mpow T5s have volume control?  Mine don’t.  Mine work on the scheme outlined on the Amazon page:







The only controls are long click and short click, and left and right are not distinguished.  Since a short click play/pauses the music, a double click just pauses and then starts the music rather than changing volume.  A long click will switch to the next song — but there’s no control that brings you back to the previous song, and there’s no control to change volume.

I bought my T5s several months ago.  I know Mpow made some changes to this product, but I was under the impression that those changes related primarily to connectivity issues to Android phones.  Would be interesting to know if they revised the button control scheme too!


----------



## hifi80sman

rhsauer said:


> Hi hifi80sman — are you sure your Mpow T5s have volume control?  Mine don’t.  Mine work on the scheme outlined on the Amazon page:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


LOL!  Am I sure?  Yes, my friend, I am 1,000,000% sure.  I'm wearing them right now and they have been my daily drivers for the past week.

Apparently, there have been at least 3 iterations.  I purchased from Amazon US (Prime) via seller "Topyo Pro" within the last week, so at least they have the most recent version.

Just so you know I'm REALLY 1,000,000% sure.


----------



## Caipirina

Bartig said:


> Guys! Stop making Anbes bigger than it is. Anbes puts its name on EVERYTHING. Even the cheapest 1 dollar earphones which smell like paint.
> 
> This pictured XG-13 was also advertised as Anbes, but it's just a totally generic product.
> 
> As is any other Anbes. I'm sure it's safe to buy the other UFO designs. They're all the same, just a rebranded model that is called Air+ in your Bluetooth list. It's really nothing special.


 
How are those? 
These are the last I am expecting in the mail.


----------



## Shanling

vstolpner said:


> I suspect they did that due to limited controls. Mentioned that ambient mode is enabled with a long press and track skipping by double tap. Doesn't leave many options for volume control.
> 
> And, having never tried Aptx, I don't mind it not being there. But that's due to using Realtek chip, which is fine by me.



Current control setting on our MTW100

Double tap on left or right - play/pause or answer/end call
Hold on left/right for 4 seconds - Surrounding awareness mode
Triple tap right - next song
Triple tap left - previous song


----------



## chinmie

wes1099 said:


> Hmm, I just found this thread after ordering the jabra elite 65t on the prime day sale for $119. How bad have I played myself? The MPOW T5 and Funcl W1 look like they might be just as good if not better and they cost a lot less... And I just saw the TWS600....



the 65T is a solid product. the only thing that made me sold it was because of the imbalance issue with my phone (note 8), and my wife won't use it because it's too big for her ears. no imbalance issue with her phone (pixel 2 xl). if you like the 65T sound and want a cheaper product, you could always return it and try the QCY T1C. 

or, you could also follow this advice:



hifi80sman said:


> You make it sound as if you only intend to have 1 pair of 'buds.  Get both!



and also add the third, fourth, and so on. gotta catch them all, they said


----------



## clerkpalmer

Quick update on klipsch t5 for those who are interested. In short, not good. Preordered June 19th. Called today, currently slated to ship first week of August. The guy did not seem confident in that date. I then asked to cancel and was put on hold indefinitely until I finally hung up. Not impressed. Small company so they get some slack but I’m going Sony over these at this point.


----------



## chinmie

Boreaquis said:


> I'm pretty close to pulling the trigger on the Nillkin Go. At $30, they seem pretty tempting. Any chance of a more detailed review?
> 
> If I recall correctly, you sold me on the Sabbat X12 last year, which I've been very happy with. I'm looking for an upgrade on my Havit I93 though, which doesn't quite have the same audio quality (and lacks volume control).
> 
> EDIT: Searched the thread for all your posts about it, and decided to order. Less than $30 shipped with ePacket means I can't complain about the price at least.



i hope you do also find it great like i do. if you like the X12 sound, chances are you'll love the Nillkin: similar tuning but with a more impact and faster bass, and clearer mids and treble. 

i rarely use my X12 anymore except for sleeping, because the X12 has flatter profile and more comfortable for sleeping sideways 



hifi80sman said:


> LOL! Am I sure? Yes, my friend, I am 1,000,000% sure. I'm wearing them right now and they have been my daily drivers for the past week.
> 
> Apparently, there have been at least 3 iterations. I purchased from Amazon US (Prime) via seller "Topyo Pro" within the last week, so at least they have the most recent version.
> 
> Just so you know I'm REALLY 1,000,000% sure.




have you tried or tested the T5 waterproof capability? I'm searching for a replacement to the Mifo o5 which is proven to survive water dunking.

can the T5 be turned off and on without the case? 

and also, do you by any chance have the T1C and can make a photo of size comparison between the T5 and the T1C (or the E12 is also fine as i saw you have one)? 


now the problem is whether the seller would send the new version with volume controls or not, as I can't be sure which seller has the new one on AE..and those sellers sometimes can't be trusted 100% about the specs of their stuffs. 
it might be not because they're dishonest, i think it's more of because they're uninformed.


----------



## vstolpner

Shanling said:


> Current control setting on our MTW100
> 
> Double tap on left or right - play/pause or answer/end call
> Hold on left/right for 4 seconds - Surrounding awareness mode
> ...



Nothing for single tap? That's an unusual setup....


----------



## vstolpner

chinmie said:


> i hope you do also find it great like i do. if you like the X12 sound, chances are you'll love the Nillkin: similar tuning but with a more impact and faster bass, and clearer mids and treble.
> 
> i rarely use my X12 anymore except for sleeping, because the X12 has flatter profile and more comfortable for sleeping sideways
> 
> ...



The seller can always check with their supplier. I've had sellers check which chipset is being used or if AAC is supported


----------



## tekwrx

hifi80sman said:


> Looks like another Anbes 359 clone, but with a cylindrical case.
> https://www.amazon.com/Wireless-Bluetooth-Earphones-Aluminum-Sweatproof/dp/B07RLDXH5G/



I really like that charging case! Too bad there isn't a standardized charging pin spec for TWS so the chargers were more universal, then we could buy a different style charging case for our favorite buds. Oh well


----------



## Shanling

vstolpner said:


> Nothing for single tap? That's an unusual setup....



Apparently our IEM manager was afraid, that single tap in combination with touch sensor would be causing problems with hair, hats, etc or when you are simply putting them in your ears.


----------



## riodgarp

Judge Buff said:


> If you’re referring to pressure within my ear, there is a gradual accumulation, but it’s no different than several IEMs I’ve owned. I typically just pull up on the top of my ear to release pressure and reseat the phone.
> 
> The only negative here is that the tips are too large for the charging case to close correctly. This is also true for spin-fit and similar tips.



yes something like that with regular eartips, I wish that third party tws specialized eartips didn't feel the same, through I wound mind now with pressure feeling just if I'm not too much making activity on my head


----------



## chinmie

vstolpner said:


> The seller can always check with their supplier. I've had sellers check which chipset is being used or if AAC is supported



they could in theory, but some sellers was just misinformed. i had a bluetooth neckband that they said has APTX, and i ask them via messaging to get confirmation, and they said yes, only to find that it only supports SBC. also recently i asked a couple of sellers about the TFZ B. V2 drivers, and the official TFZ seller said it is dynamic drivers while others said balanced armature. the picture also adds to the confusion as it states using full frequency moving iron (what they usually call BA drivers with) but usong a picture of dynamic drivers.

i feel they're just putting everything in the description so that when people open a dispute, they can just say it's there on the description, or the opposite : it's a misprint 
 so my point is just be careful with online sellers, and it's better to do research our own and trust statistics


----------



## vstolpner

tekwrx said:


> I really like that charging case! Too bad there isn't a standardized charging pin spec for TWS so the chargers were more universal, then we could buy a different style charging case for our favorite buds. Oh well



That would be pretty awesome! Though that would likely mean the space allowance for earbuds would have to be pretty big to allow for different earbud designs, making the charging case large


----------



## vstolpner

chinmie said:


> they could in theory, but some sellers was just misinformed. i had a bluetooth neckband that they said has APTX, and i ask them via messaging to get confirmation, and they said yes, only to find that it only supports SBC. also recently i asked a couple of sellers about the TFZ B. V2 drivers, and the official TFZ seller said it is dynamic drivers while others said balanced armature. the picture also adds to the confusion as it states using full frequency moving iron (what they usually call BA drivers with) but usong a picture of dynamic drivers.
> 
> i feel they're just putting everything in the description so that when people open a dispute, they can just say it's there on the description, or the opposite : it's a misprint
> so my point is just be careful with online sellers, and it's better to do research our own and trust statistics



Actually I can comment on the TFZ B.V2 - they changed from using BA to using dynamic drivers a month or so ago. Which is why a lot of the pictures and details are still wrong. Both penon and TFZ AE stores confirmed this. 
That was actually the main reason I didn't buy them from Massdrop - couldn't verify they were BA.

And if a seller promises one thing and delivers another you can always ask for refund / raise dispute.


----------



## vstolpner

Shanling said:


> Apparently our IEM manager was afraid, that single tap in combination with touch sensor would be causing problems with hair, hats, etc or when you are simply putting them in your ears.



I don't imagine my opinion will count for much, but my preference would be to include the functionality and account for hair/hats/accidental touches with sensitivity adjustments of the touch control.

My ideal setup would be:
Single tap: pause/play or answer call
Double tap: increase volume on right / decrease on left
1 second hold: next track on the right / previous on the left
3-4 second hold: activate/deactivate ambient mode

Could substitute one of those with triple to as well if differentiating between 1/3-4 second holds is technically challenging


----------



## Shanling

vstolpner said:


> I don't imagine my opinion will count for much, but my preference would be to include the functionality and account for hair/hats/accidental touches with sensitivity adjustments of the touch control.
> 
> My ideal setup would be:
> Single tap: pause/play or answer call
> ...



Mine ideal set up would be similar, unfortunately I'm not in charge of this project.

One thing, they were trying to limit the split for left/right side due to use in mono mode. We had quite long discussion in company just to add the previous/next function.


----------



## vstolpner (Jul 18, 2019)

Shanling said:


> Mine ideal set up would be similar, unfortunately I'm not in charge of this project.
> 
> One thing, they were trying to limit the split for left/right side due to use in mono mode. We had quite long discussion in company just to add the previous/next function.



No one uses TWS in mono mode, especially nothing over $20.

I'm sure that people on this forum (and similar forums) would be happy to weigh in on decisions like this.

And we very much appreciate you providing information on here! This communication goes a long way in purchasing IEM's of a specific brand.


----------



## Shanling

vstolpner said:


> No one uses TWS in mono mode, especially nothing over $20.
> 
> I'm sure that people on this forum (and similar forums) would be happy to weigh in on decisions like this.
> 
> And we very much appreciate you providing information on here! This communication goes a long way in purchasing IEM's of a specific brand.




I use them like this everyday  But that's because walking on streets of China is tricky 

These are our first TWS, so we will see if ideas of our designers were correct or not.


----------



## igorneumann

Shanling said:


> I use them like this everyday  But that's because walking on streets of China is tricky
> 
> These are our first TWS, so we will see if ideas of our designers were correct or not.



WOW, your participation on this forum and how open you are about it makes me want this IEM so bad!
Please make it sound good, if its similar to the TFZ X1/Mifo O5 should be awesome! :-D

I suspect KZ use to follow their thread also (because too many things criticized there were changed in new iterations of those IEMs.), but never see them commenting.


----------



## Heisenberg1895

Well
 Heard back from 4 different suppliers on Aliexpress.  The all sent me photos (none had the logo on) and one of em said they are the same model and specs etc. Just don't have Anbes printed on them
 So I'm steering clear.  The ones on Amazon.com won't ship to the UK. And there's a pair on eBay.com and he won't ship to the UK either  
I'm a very sad bunny


----------



## FYLegend

hifi80sman said:


> Looks like another Anbes 359 clone, but with a cylindrical case.
> https://www.amazon.com/Wireless-Bluetooth-Earphones-Aluminum-Sweatproof/dp/B07RLDXH5G/


But is that case Type C? It's also only listed as 380mAh while 359/UFO has a 600mAh case. Letscom's BE32 has a different rectangular case as mentioned earlier using microUSB, and only has 400mAh despite claiming 24 hours. Interesting that Yineme doesn't have it listed on their site, only the UFO and some other products. Someone should make one with Type C connector and Qi charging...

Yineme and Letscom UFO are both listed as ST-BE30, they didn't even bother changing the OEM name.



Bartig said:


> Guys! Stop making Anbes bigger than it is. Anbes puts its name on EVERYTHING. Even the cheapest 1 dollar earphones which smell like paint.
> 
> This pictured XG-13 was also advertised as Anbes, but it's just a totally generic product.
> 
> As is any other Anbes. I'm sure it's safe to buy the other UFO designs. They're all the same, just a rebranded model that is called Air+ in your Bluetooth list. It's really nothing special.


I agree, but one could speculate that the units branded Anbes got a more reliable batch than the rebrands. Mine actually says "Coolhere UFO" on my Bluetooth list. Sure, defects can happen to all devices, but I'd still be more comfortable knowing people have tried and tested Anbes 359 without the defects I experienced with the rebrand. As a less severe note, I personally find the change to volume control in the rebrand as an annoyance.



Heisenberg1895 said:


> Well
> Heard back from 4 different suppliers on Aliexpress.  The all sent me photos (none had the logo on) and one of em said they are the same model and specs etc. Just don't have Anbes printed on them
> So I'm steering clear.  The ones on Amazon.com won't ship to the UK. And there's a pair on eBay.com and he won't ship to the UK either
> I'm a very sad bunny


They keep sending me photos with a nameless render that's been cropped to say "Bluetooth name: Anbes 359", go figure. None of them have sent me a real photo of what they are sending out, leaving me to suspect they are all being dropshipped, even Anbes Official.



vstolpner said:


> No one uses TWS in mono mode, especially nothing over $20.



It's great listening to Beatles songs with one ear while you listen to the outside world with the other, no more worries about channel imbalance or added distortion! 

Not TWS-related, but this looks interesting - a budget over-ear ANC that appears to have Type C charging from Coolhear/Coolhere. I'm wondering what's it a rebrand of though... https://www.coolhear.com/index.php?r=cms/site/page&id=7


----------



## Boreaquis

chinmie said:


> i hope you do also find it great like i do. if you like the X12 sound, chances are you'll love the Nillkin: similar tuning but with a more impact and faster bass, and clearer mids and treble.
> 
> i rarely use my X12 anymore except for sleeping, because the X12 has flatter profile and more comfortable for sleeping sideways



Excellent, that sound profile sounds like just my thing. Now for the long wait for shipping, but that's the price we pay for cheap stuff, I suppose.


----------



## Shanling

igorneumann said:


> WOW, your participation on this forum and how open you are about it makes me want this IEM so bad!



Well, we always try to be little bit different than other Chinese manufacturers (also having 31 years experience in high-end 2Channel systems helps).

BTW, I posted little bit more info on MTW100 in its thread:https://www.head-fi.org/threads/shanling-mtw100-true-wireless-iems.910486/


----------



## DigDub

Sony wf-1000mx3 with Accoustune aet07 tips. Probably the endgame (for the time being).


----------



## Boreaquis

DigDub said:


> Sony wf-1000mx3 with Accoustune aet07 tips. Probably the endgame (for the time being).



I was pretty excited about these until I noticed that they weren't sweat/waterproof. 

Oh well, maybe next time, Sony.


----------



## FunctionalDoc

DigDub said:


> Sony wf-1000mx3 with Accoustune aet07 tips. Probably the endgame (for the time being).


How is the range on connectivity and what have used to connect to them ?  Thanks


----------



## chinmie

Boreaquis said:


> I was pretty excited about these until I noticed that they weren't sweat/waterproof.
> 
> Oh well, maybe next time, Sony.



i would gladly lose waterproofing if it has great sound and functionality. I'll just buy another cheaper TWS specifically for water-risk activities


----------



## DigDub (Jul 18, 2019)

FunctionalDoc said:


> How is the range on connectivity and what have used to connect to them ?  Thanks


They are the furthest  tws earbuds I have gone without dropping connection, so the range is excellent for a tws.


----------



## DigDub

Boreaquis said:


> I was pretty excited about these until I noticed that they weren't sweat/waterproof.
> 
> Oh well, maybe next time, Sony.


I guess they should be fine under rain. The lack of waterproofing seems like due to the mic openings required for the ANC.


----------



## igorneumann

DigDub said:


> I guess they should be fine under rain. The lack of waterproofing seems like due to the mic openings required for the ANC.



I would certainly chose waterproof over ANC anytime... I actually have a headphone with ANC just for Airplabne traveling that I pretty much use just for that.

THAT SAID, the pricetag is the problem for me, Im not ready to compromise in sound quality so I use "wired bluetooth" most of the time, TWS for work only (easier to put/take it off or use just one side)

Also, Im a sucker for unknown brands and too much of a IEM hoarder to spen so much in a single unit.


----------



## Caipirina

rhsauer said:


> Hi hifi80sman — are you sure your Mpow T5s have volume control?  Mine don’t.  Mine work on the scheme outlined on the Amazon page:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Mine have the very same button layout / functionality as rhsauer's / the above amazon pic ...  as much as I like vol control on the buds ... when running I hardly ever feel like I need to change vol, and I have actually learned over time to change volume on my phone while it is stowed in my kidney pack, without taking it out ... so, not a deal breaker 

(neither is USB C for me, I actually end up always looking for a USB C cable for my very few USB C devices ... )


----------



## Boreaquis

chinmie said:


> i would gladly lose waterproofing if it has great sound and functionality. I'll just buy another cheaper TWS specifically for water-risk activities



I guess I can see that.

Personally, I use headphones at home and TWS outdoors, so waterproofing is great peace of mind for going outside in the rain, especially if it's an expensive pair like the Sonys.


----------



## Burakk

Can you share your opinions regarding call quality in noisy environment? 



DigDub said:


> Sony wf-1000mx3 with Accoustune aet07 tips. Probably the endgame (for the time being).
> 
> QUOTE]


----------



## DigDub

igorneumann said:


> I would certainly chose waterproof over ANC anytime... I actually have a headphone with ANC just for Airplabne traveling that I pretty much use just for that.
> 
> THAT SAID, the pricetag is the problem for me, Im not ready to compromise in sound quality so I use "wired bluetooth" most of the time, TWS for work only (easier to put/take it off or use just one side)
> 
> Also, Im a sucker for unknown brands and too much of a IEM hoarder to spen so much in a single unit.


I'm using my tws mainly for commute, so the ANC is probably more useful for me. The Sony to me is good enough for critical listening at home too, it's that good. 

I have a few pairs of chifi tws too, and they are good as well. But the Sony has much more features.


----------



## DigDub

Burakk said:


> Can you share your opinions regarding call quality in noisy environment?


I've not managed to make a call in noisy environment yet. In a quiet room, it is fine.


----------



## Heisenberg1895

Well. I know no-one here knows me from Adam. But if there's a kind sould that would be prepared to buy me a pair of 359s and ship em to me I'll pay for them. I just can't find ANYWHERE That will sell and ship them to me


----------



## clerkpalmer

Heisenberg1895 said:


> Well. I know no-one here knows me from Adam. But if there's a kind sould that would be prepared to buy me a pair of 359s and ship em to me I'll pay for them. I just can't find ANYWHERE That will sell and ship them to me



Hit me with a pm. I’ll help you out.


----------



## Heisenberg1895

clerkpalmer said:


> Hit me with a pm. I’ll help you out.


Done. Tyvm


----------



## SaveTheMantaRays

What kind of tips have been fitting and sounding the best on the MPOW T5?

Anyone know what Comply foam size fits them best?


----------



## srinivasvignesh

DigDub said:


> I've not managed to make a call in noisy environment yet. In a quiet room, it is fine.



If you get a chance, please do share your inputs on this particular topic.


----------



## clerkpalmer

srinivasvignesh said:


> If you get a chance, please do share your inputs on this particular topic.



If you would be brave enough to wear them in the gym with a little sweat, I would really appreciate that.  The design seems like they could withstand a little sweat they way they stick out.  I might add a best buy protection plan to mine for additional piece of mind and then just wear them in the gym.


----------



## DDDYKI

Would most of you say the Sennheiser Momentum TWS is a no-go because of the battery issues? I was eyeing them until the Klipsch T5 was announced, but I really prefer the look of the Sennheisers. While not for music, I do have the Bose Sleepbuds and those have awful battery issues that have yet to be addressed a year after launch.


----------



## Spamateur

DDDYKI said:


> Would most of you say the Sennheiser Momentum TWS is a no-go because of the battery issues? I was eyeing them until the Klipsch T5 was announced, but I really prefer the look of the Sennheisers. While not for music, I do have the Bose Sleepbuds and those have awful battery issues that have yet to be addressed a year after launch.



Even if the Sennheiser MTW didn't have charging issues, the battery life is subpar compared to nearly every cheaper product on the market, and you can get a better-sounding true wireless model for less than half the price of the MTW.


----------



## joshnor713

DDDYKI said:


> Would most of you say the Sennheiser Momentum TWS is a no-go because of the battery issues? I was eyeing them until the Klipsch T5 was announced, but I really prefer the look of the Sennheisers. While not for music, I do have the Bose Sleepbuds and those have awful battery issues that have yet to be addressed a year after launch.



I think the latest firmware update v1.26 addressed the battery issues. I haven't had much time to test it myself (just installed it), but the change notes say they fixed it.



Spamateur said:


> Even if the Sennheiser MTW didn't have charging issues, the battery life is subpar compared to nearly every cheaper product on the market, and you can get a better-sounding true wireless model for less than half the price of the MTW.



I'd like to hear which ones at less than half the price sound better than the MTW.


----------



## clerkpalmer

joshnor713 said:


> I'd like to hear which ones at less than half the price sound better than the MTW.



Me too


----------



## actorlife

Heisenberg1895 said:


> Well. I know no-one here knows me from Adam. But if there's a kind sould that would be prepared to buy me a pair of 359s and ship em to me I'll pay for them. I just can't find ANYWHERE That will sell and ship them to me


Can you get the Kissral R18 there?


----------



## Boreaquis

joshnor713 said:


> I'd like to hear which ones at less than half the price sound better than the MTW.





clerkpalmer said:


> Me too



Me three.


----------



## Heisenberg1895

actorlife said:


> Can you get the Kissral R18 there?


No but I've found some on eBay that will ship to the UK. Are they basically the same ones then?


----------



## albau (Jul 18, 2019)

rhsauer said:


> Hi hifi80sman — are you sure your Mpow T5s have volume control?  Mine don’t.  Mine work on the scheme outlined on the Amazon page:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Well, listing's Amazon seller says:

*Q: Do they have volume control? Please don't answer to say use your phone's volume control.
A:* Yes.
Double press the MFB button of the left earbud to decrease the volume;
Double press the MFB button of the right earbud to increase the volume.
By Topyo Pro Customer Service on July 17, 2019

I'm getting them tomorrow, so we'll see. If vol control is indeed there it'll be royally stupid on their part to omit this from description. My stance on vol control is opposite of yours. When I do crunches or lift weights I put my phone aside because I already once crushed it. I also hate blindly hunting for vol buttons when I'm fighting it out on elliptical or on a stepper. With vol buttons on your buds you always know where they are, it's fast and easy to hit them without loosing balance and looking like you're possessed by fleas or something .


----------



## rhsauer

joshnor713 said:


> I think the latest firmware update v1.26 addressed the battery issues. I haven't had much time to test it myself (just installed it), but the change notes say they fixed it.
> 
> 
> 
> I'd like to hear which ones at less than half the price sound better than the MTW.



Do the release notes say they fixed the battery discharge issue?  What I see in the release notes is the following:

• Improved and more accurate display of battery charge status.
• Improved Bluetooth connection process.
• Earphones can also be switched off using the Smart Control app.
• Transparent Hearing remains active after a phone call.
• Improved audio quality when making phone calls.
• Improved and stabilized software and user-friendliness.

This seems to fall short of addressing the battery case discharge issue.  (Having said that, I haven’t yet tested my MTWs for any improvement, and I certainly hope the issue has been solved.)


----------



## BigAund

Mtw battery seems a bit better since 1.26 but the case still discharges and the earphones still switch on. Had it the other day, case ran out without me realising and only caught the mtws staying connected to my phone because my other half called and I couldn't hear her through the phone.


----------



## hifi80sman

chinmie said:


> i hope you do also find it great like i do. if you like the X12 sound, chances are you'll love the Nillkin: similar tuning but with a more impact and faster bass, and clearer mids and treble.
> 
> i rarely use my X12 anymore except for sleeping, because the X12 has flatter profile and more comfortable for sleeping sideways
> 
> ...


As far as powering off the T5, at first I didn't think so, but after playing around with it, if I hold each side down for 5-7 seconds, they will say "power off".  However, they will power back on when the button is pressed, not a long press, just a quick click, so you have to make sure you don't press the button after powering off.


----------



## hifi80sman

BigAund said:


> Mtw battery seems a bit better since 1.26 but the case still discharges and the earphones still switch on. Had it the other day, case ran out without me realising and only caught the mtws staying connected to my phone because my other half called and I couldn't hear her through the phone.


Yep, it still does.  I can't tell if this update is any better than the last in terms of the battery issue, but it's a bit better than the original firmware at release.


----------



## falang

About to pull the trigger on the Mpow T5 but I have one question on battery duration. On their product page, they claim 7 hour battery life for music on a single charge. But scrolling down, they claim 6 and then 5 hours in the product description blurb. 

Anyone have confirmation of average battery duration?


----------



## actorlife

Heisenberg1895 said:


> No but I've found some on eBay that will ship to the UK. Are they basically the same ones then?


From various youtube videos it seems the same type of SQ. I have not heard them yet. I'd go for it though. What is the cheapest you've seen them for??


----------



## Heisenberg1895 (Jul 18, 2019)

actorlife said:


> From various youtube videos it seems the same type of SQ. I have not heard them yet. I'd go for it though. What is the cheapest you've seen them for??


https://www.amazon.co.uk/Bluetooth-...18+headphones&qid=1563467078&s=gateway&sr=8-1

Another pair. On Amazon UK.
Are these all the same lol.
And the prices on eBay are in the pic


----------



## actorlife

Heisenberg1895 said:


> https://www.amazon.co.uk/Bluetooth-...18+headphones&qid=1563467078&s=gateway&sr=8-1
> 
> Another pair. On Amazon UK.
> Are these all the same lol.
> And the prices on eBay are in the pic



Yep those are them. Get them from Amazon as you can always return them if any quality issues. Please come back and share your experiences. I wanna try them too, but my budget is real tight.


----------



## Spamateur (Jul 18, 2019)

joshnor713 said:


> I'd like to hear which ones at less than half the price sound better than the MTW.





clerkpalmer said:


> Me too





Boreaquis said:


> Me three.



Keep in mind all of this is highly subjective, as we all know one person's ideal signature is another person's bloated bass cannon or bright and brittle presentation.

Full disclosure: I primarily listen to my 2-channel stereo setup at home in a fully treated listening room with Dirac room correction, so my personal preference is for accuracy, natural tonality, and clarity/detail retrieval. This results in something similar to a Harman frequency response. With that said, strong YMMV qualifier:

Purely in terms of sound quality, I thought the MTW were decent, but simply not as good as the Mavin Air-X which is selling for $120 right now, and has become my gold standard in TW IEMs. The Mavins are a warmish take on neutral with the best clarity and detail retrieval of any TW model I've tried. They're balanced and neutral throughout the frequency response with a tastefully elevated bass and an extended treble that's among the most natural-sounding I've heard from any IEM. The Senns sounded somewhat U-shaped in terms of frequency response which resulted in a sound that was too aggressive for my taste, and weren't as good as the Air-X in terms of imaging and separation. Even after trying to use the Sennheiser app's EQ feature (which isn't the best... give me a real banded EQ) they never sounded right and sounded cold to my ears. Solely based on sound quality, the Air-X are significantly better IMO. Beyond that, add in the Air-X's 10-hour battery life, a case that stores a ridiculous amount of charges (I charge it maybe once every few weeks), Qualcomm TrueWireless Stereo Plus, and bug-free operation out of the box, you're really only missing firmware updates and a dedicated app (which tbh I couldn't get working consistently with the MTW when I owned it).

I ended up returning the MTW because of the battery drain/charging situation, the flimsy hinge on the case, the app that worked infrequently for me (YMMV), the goofy EQ functionality, and the fact that even when working flawlessly the Sennheiser isn't even capable of battery life to last a cross-country flight, and I simply don't understand how they can be asking $300 considering all the competition on the market. I even preferred the sound signature of the Bose SoundSport Free, although the MTW was better in terms of detail retrieval, connectivity reliability and passive noise isolation.

I have no problem shelling out for an expensive TW IEM if it's worth it, but I just found the Sennheiser had too many compromises, and I consider myself a fan of Sennheiser in general. I hope they improve their second gen product whenever they get around to making one. The MTW I very much see as among the best of the "TW 1.0" generation true wireless IEMs, whereas the "2nd gen" TW models coming out now are a significant step forward in terms of battery life, ease of use, and in many cases sound quality.


----------



## actorlife (Jul 18, 2019)

Spamateur said:


> Keep in mind all of this is highly subjective, as we all know one person's ideal signature is another person's bloated bass cannon or bright and brittle presentation.
> 
> Full disclosure: I primarily listen to my 2-channel stereo setup at home in a fully treated listening room with Dirac room correction, so my personal preference is for accuracy, natural tonality, and clarity/detail retrieval. This results in something similar to a Harman frequency response. With that said, strong YMMV qualifier:
> 
> ...



After reading this great review reminds me so much how the Mavin might sound very similar like my Anbes 359 which also has a good soundstage (5hr battery). I wish I had the money after seeing this has a ten hr battery. Thanks for the review.


----------



## Spamateur (Jul 18, 2019)

actorlife said:


> After reading this great review reminds me so much how the Mavin might sound very similar like the Anbes 359. I wish I had the money after seeing this has a ten hr battery. Thanks for the review.



Happy to help. Again, I want to emphasize that everyone hears differently and I think the MTW is great in terms of sound (and can't blame anyone for enjoying and keeping them, especially if they're fixing issues in firmware updates), but I think there are better products on the market. Plus, I'm sure there are a lot more products coming out in the near future that will make waves.


----------



## vstolpner

Spamateur said:


> Keep in mind all of this is highly subjective, as we all know one person's ideal signature is another person's bloated bass cannon or bright and brittle presentation.
> 
> Full disclosure: I primarily listen to my 2-channel stereo setup at home in a fully treated listening room with Dirac room correction, so my personal preference is for accuracy, natural tonality, and clarity/detail retrieval. This results in something similar to a Harman frequency response. With that said, strong YMMV qualifier:
> 
> ...



Makes me wish I had room for the Air-x in my budget.... thanks for sharing!


----------



## tekwrx

falang said:


> About to pull the trigger on the Mpow T5 but I have one question on battery duration. On their product page, they claim 7 hour battery life for music on a single charge. But scrolling down, they claim 6 and then 5 hours in the product description blurb.
> 
> Anyone have confirmation of average battery duration?



I haven't done a formal testing, but when I got them the other day I gave it a full charge, then let it play until they died and got between 6-7 hours (around noon until sometime after 6pm)


----------



## falang

tekwrx said:


> I haven't done a formal testing, but when I got them the other day I gave it a full charge, then let it play until they died and got between 6-7 hours (around noon until sometime after 6pm)


Thank you! How well do they isolate? Do they fit deep in your ears like traditional IEMs?


----------



## hifi80sman

SaveTheMantaRays said:


> What kind of tips have been fitting and sounding the best on the MPOW T5?
> 
> Anyone know what Comply foam size fits them best?


Depends.  For me, the default M fit well, but I also go with the tips from my Sabbat E12.


----------



## hifi80sman

albau said:


> Well, listing's Amazon seller says:
> 
> *Q: Do they have volume control? Please don't answer to say use your phone's volume control.
> A:* Yes.
> ...


That's the same seller I got mine from, so you should be receiving the latest version.  A few pages back, I posted a video if me increasing the volume just as the seller described.


----------



## Heisenberg1895

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Bluetooth-...18+headphones&qid=1563476092&s=gateway&sr=8-4


https://www.amazon.co.uk/LEIYER-Blu...QT4N0BG1R54&psc=1&refRID=Q9H5D307N833PCAPBQ8C


https://www.amazon.co.uk/Headphones...QT4N0BG1R54&psc=1&refRID=39JMDJCNVTTD2TV7BSXM

So now really confused. They all seem the same except the first ones (Fodlon?) Say 4-5 hours and the others 3-4.5 or something. So could any of u clever peeps please take a gander and let me know which of those if any is the closest I'll get to the 359s.

Many thanks


----------



## vstolpner

Heisenberg1895 said:


> https://www.amazon.co.uk/Bluetooth-...18+headphones&qid=1563476092&s=gateway&sr=8-4
> 
> 
> https://www.amazon.co.uk/LEIYER-Blu...QT4N0BG1R54&psc=1&refRID=Q9H5D307N833PCAPBQ8C
> ...



#3 has different controls (I believe it's like Cool here, double check in this thread)

#1 refers to them as R18 (see Kissral) and has the blue LEDs on the case, plus the right logo

#2 has different controls, same as with #3

My money is on #1


----------



## tekwrx

falang said:


> Thank you! How well do they isolate? Do they fit deep in your ears like traditional IEMs?



They fit and isolate pretty good. They do feel like traditional IEMs. When I first got them, I used medium size Sony Hybrids tips because that's what I usually use with all my IEMs, but I actually went back to the included medium tips that came in the box. I just find them more comfortable and they sound the same as the hybrids.


----------



## nc8000

Heisenberg1895 said:


> https://www.amazon.co.uk/Bluetooth-...18+headphones&qid=1563476092&s=gateway&sr=8-4
> 
> 
> https://www.amazon.co.uk/LEIYER-Blu...QT4N0BG1R54&psc=1&refRID=Q9H5D307N833PCAPBQ8C
> ...



There is also 

https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B07NPN1RK1/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_evmmDb9JFRQV5


----------



## Heisenberg1895

Ok. So these say 36hr 

https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B07NPN1RK1/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_evmmDb9JFRQV5


And these 15hrs

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Bluetooth-...18+headphones&qid=1563476092&s=gateway&sr=8-4

Which is weird as the first pair are cheaper.
Also the 1st pair has a lot more feedback (stars) whereas the second only has 1.

Sorry for being a pita.  I just wanna be sure


----------



## FYLegend

Heisenberg1895 said:


> Ok. So these say 36hr
> 
> https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B07NPN1RK1/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_evmmDb9JFRQV5
> 
> ...



Both battery cases are 600mAh. Letscom is probably just bluffing or basing their statement on much lower volumes. Coolhere claims 8x more battery with the case while Anbes claims 24hours. 15 hours seems more realistic.


----------



## Heisenberg1895

FYLegend said:


> Both battery cases are 600mAh. Letscom is probably just bluffing or basing their statement on much lower volumes. Coolhere claims 8x more battery with the case while Anbes claims 24hours. 15 hours seems more realistic.



Only thing that concerns me is the lack of reviews/feedback on the r18s


----------



## Heisenberg1895

Soooo.  I now have a pair of TRANYA t3s, Mpow T5s (haven't unboxed em yet) and am 90 percent on the way to getting 359s (or R18s)
Seeing as I'm pretty useless at making my mind up could anyone who's listened to these 3 please advise which id be better sticking with. 
I know someone will say keep all 3 but If I'm gonna do thatch may have well just pooled all the money together and bought one expensive pair lol


----------



## actorlife (Jul 18, 2019)

Heisenberg1895 said:


> Only thing that concerns me is the lack of reviews/feedback on the r18s


Get #1 on V's list. Like I said return policy is great.

On another note rode my bike with the Anbes and cayin n3 in my backpack and only cut off 2 times on the left bud when I turned my head. Also walked and no cut off. I'd say that's great IMHO.


----------



## Caipirina

Caipirina said:


> Mine have the very same button layout / functionality as rhsauer's / the above amazon pic ...



I have to bite my own tongue over this! I was utterly wrong and I can only suspect that this might be based on the Mpow being connected to my Shanling DAP (not phone) when I tested the MFB functionality ... 

Further study of the manual shows: 


 


And after re-pairing the Mpow with my iPhone, yep, I have volume control ... sorry for adding to the confusion!


----------



## Caipirina

Heisenberg1895 said:


> Soooo.  I now have a pair of TRANYA t3s, Mpow T5s (haven't unboxed em yet) and am 90 percent on the way to getting 359s (or R18s)
> Seeing as I'm pretty useless at making my mind up could anyone who's listened to these 3 please advise which id be better sticking with.
> I know someone will say keep all 3 but If I'm gonna do thatch may have well just pooled all the money together and bought one expensive pair lol



People are different, some are happy with one expensive pair and some like the variety ... 

I find the Mpow and the Tranya quite similar, with the Mpow having the Aptx edge over the Tranya, if that's important to you, also, the faux-leather mpow case might be 'more shiny', others reported the lid of the Tranya case to scratch easy (I never removed my protective film) ... 

The Anbes are a bit of a different animal, very pocketable and unique case, the buds themselves are probably the most streamlined I own. 

So, if you had to kick on off, kick the Tranya and keep Mpow and Anbes ... 

That being said: KEEP ALL THREE (and keep buying more ... you are just at the beginning of the rabbit hole  )


----------



## actorlife

Caipirina said:


> People are different, some are happy with one expensive pair and some like the variety ...
> 
> I find the Mpow and the Tranya quite similar, with the Mpow having the Aptx edge over the Tranya, if that's important to you, also, the faux-leather mpow case might be 'more shiny', others reported the lid of the Tranya case to scratch easy (I never removed my protective film) ...
> 
> ...


Rahaha the more the merrier. Gotta win the f$$$ING lottery even if it's fake.


----------



## Heisenberg1895

Caipirina said:


> That being said: KEEP ALL THREE (and keep buying more ... you are just at the beginning of the rabbit hole  )



Lol. Well not sure about aptx s never used it before, but I guess it's better to have it and not need it that to not have it and then eventually need it. And I'll keep the Anbes when I get em. So I guess it's goodbye to the T3s


----------



## Caipirina

actorlife said:


> Rahaha the more the merrier. Gotta win the f$$$ING lottery even if it's fake.



Already looking forward to next summer when all the cheapo chi-fi TWE have caught on with QC5somethingwithANC ... and the whole dance starts again  

Still wanna see if somehow I can get the Nillkin Go ...


----------



## Caipirina

Heisenberg1895 said:


> Lol. Well not sure about aptx s never used it before, but I guess it's better to have it and not need it that to not have it and then eventually need it. And I'll keep the Anbes when I get em. So I guess it's goodbye to the T3s



I think the Tranya are bassier than the Mpow, if that's your cup of tea...  what is your main source of music? For me it is iPhone, so, Aptx is not important to me .. so I thought, then I realized that I have a Shanling DAP which I had bought for balanced 2.5mm out and overall stellar sound ... and that one has AptX ... and at least I think I can hear a difference? Still have not done a critical A/B on that .. trickier with TWE as one has to unpair / re-pair with different players ...


----------



## Heisenberg1895 (Jul 18, 2019)

Well i use android and may end up using them with my TV  (samsung 50nu7400) not sure what  codecs that uses and Samsung support were less than useless. And recently bought this:-

https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B01J14SOMG/ref=cm_sw_r_fm_apa_i_7AnmDbEZJ3JD0

To connect up to my MP3 player and potentially TV


----------



## vladzakhar

Heisenberg1895 said:


> Only thing that concerns me is the lack of reviews/feedback on the r18s


I will report, when I got home. R18s are waiting for me in my mail box. And I also have the original Anbes 359. I'll let you guys know if the sound quality is any different.


----------



## hifi80sman

falang said:


> Thank you! How well do they isolate? Do they fit deep in your ears like traditional IEMs?


Yes.


----------



## hifi80sman

Caipirina said:


> That being said: KEEP ALL THREE (and keep buying more ... you are just at the beginning of the rabbit hole  )


That's the *correct *answer.


----------



## typhoon838

Heisenberg1895 said:


> Lol. Well not sure about aptx s never used it before, but I guess it's better to have it and not need it that to not have it and then eventually need it. And I'll keep the Anbes when I get em. So I guess it's goodbye to the T3s



Honestly dude I'll buy the Tranyas off of you if you're looking to get rid of them, cheapest I can find them online is for $40. I neeeeeed me some bass cannons in my life. I can't help myself, the anbes have great bass but everyone says the T3s have more.

Side note, does anyone know of any cheap/chi fi units with ambient mode? Preferably on the bassy/ v-shaped side of the spectrum.


----------



## vstolpner

typhoon838 said:


> Honestly dude I'll buy the Tranyas off of you if you're looking to get rid of them, cheapest I can find them online is for $40. I neeeeeed me some bass cannons in my life. I can't help myself, the anbes have great bass but everyone says the T3s have more.
> 
> Side note, does anyone know of any cheap/chi fi units with ambient mode? Preferably on the bassy/ v-shaped side of the spectrum.



I've been playing with the Tiso i4 and they have a ton of base... Way more than my T3'S.... I'll actually have my review of them up in a day or two... And they look cool + are tiny 

Between the 359 and T3, the T3 do have more base and sit generally nicer. I can understand why some people prefer them... I've actually been using them so much that I need to go back to my 359's to see which one I actually prefer more.

I do like that the T3'S light doesn't blink incessantly. The Anbes are a little too much "Christmas lights" for me


----------



## Bartig (Jul 18, 2019)

FYLegend said:


> Also, regarding your 359 review, have you tried holding the left or right earbud for 4 seconds to change volume until you hear a beep? That's how it works on my Coolhere UFO, which I find really cumbersome since if I hold too long it shuts them off, too short it stops the music. Sometimes the beep to signal volume has changed is VERY faint on my phone, and completely absent on my Windows 10 laptop. The original 359 and Letscom BE30 had double-tap to change volume.


Four seconds?! No, haven't tried that yet... double tap really doesn't work, unfortunately.



Caipirina said:


> How are those?
> These are the last I am expecting in the mail.


The XG-13 are sooooo bassy, and yet so nice! Like the Oneodio Elysium headphones for 20 dollar, they shouldn't appeal to audiophiles, but their bass just delivers an insane punch, and on top of that the XG-13 delivers good detail and even great instrument placement. Oh, and volume control on the buttons with three presses.

They are my new guilty pleasure.


----------



## MarkF786

wes1099 said:


> Hmm, I just found this thread after ordering the jabra elite 65t on the prime day sale for $119. How bad have I played myself? The MPOW T5 and Funcl W1 look like they might be just as good if not better and they cost a lot less... And I just saw the TWS600....



I bought the Jabra Elite 65T as well (note there was also 20% cash back if paid for with an Amazon credit card, so the price was even lower).  I also ordered the SpinFit CP360 eartips, designed for the Jabra's.

I must saw, I'm impressed with the sound quality of the Jabra's which was further improved with the SpinFit eartips.  And the features of the Jabra seem pretty solid.  I feel I got my money's worth.


----------



## Bartig (Jul 18, 2019)

Just testing the Jabra Elite 65T too. I am NOT convinced, even though it wins so many tests and it's praised for so many aspects.

- Call quality is mediocre, with lots of surrounding noise and a lot of pink noise under the voice. I would have thought, with Jabra's experience, this would be great. Meh.
- In the music too, it sounds like there is a layer of pink noise on the mids. Music sounds way more artificial, capped even than on many of my budget true wireless earphones.
- The volume buttons on the left earpiece are way too small to control convenient.
- Video sync on iPhone is terrible.
- The case opens only if you force it and the earpieces aren't held by practical magnets - a function which every single 10 dollar and up true wireless earphone offers.

- The app is nice though.


----------



## Soreniglio

So, guys:

Anbes>Kissral>Letscom>Coolhere UFO


Right?

I really hope for Anbes or Letscom to come :'((((


----------



## actorlife

Bartig said:


> Just testing the Jabra Elite 65T too. I am NOT convinced, even though it wins so many tests and it's praised for so many aspects.
> 
> - Call quality is mediocre, with lots of surrounding noise and a lot of pink noise under the voice. I would have thought, with Jabra's experience, this would be great. Meh.
> - In the music too, it sounds like there is a layer of pink noise on the mids. Music sounds way more artificial, capped even than on many of my budget true wireless earphones.
> ...



That why I always say for that price I can get 3-5 and enjoy different flavors. Sure I got two duds but back they went. China rules. ✌️


----------



## turbobb

Interesting, these tout independent bud connections a la TWS+ but don't mention the chipset ...
https://smile.amazon.com/Intcrown-Bluetooth-Headphones-Waterproof-Comfortable/dp/B07SM5WLD3


----------



## snip3r77

vstolpner said:


> I've been playing with the Tiso i4 and they have a ton of base... Way more than my T3'S.... I'll actually have my review of them up in a day or two... And they look cool + are tiny
> 
> Between the 359 and T3, the T3 do have more base and sit generally nicer. I can understand why some people prefer them... I've actually been using them so much that I need to go back to my 359's to see which one I actually prefer more.
> 
> I do like that the T3'S light doesn't blink incessantly. The Anbes are a little too much "Christmas lights" for me


Why does it blink so much? Contacting aliens?


----------



## tekwrx

turbobb said:


> Interesting, these tout independent bud connections a la TWS+ but don't mention the chipset ...
> https://smile.amazon.com/Intcrown-Bluetooth-Headphones-Waterproof-Comfortable/dp/B07SM5WLD3



I like the looks of these. Kinda like a little turbo charger in your ear  I'd be curious how the sound and perform. No mention of Aptx, so probably AAC only?


----------



## SaveTheMantaRays

Oh my Oh my Oh goodness!!!
Just received the MPOW T5, had 15 minutes with them.
They are incredible sounding.  Quickest BT connection to my phone ever. ( Samsung Note 8 )
And I thought I would need to manually change the codec from AAC to AptX, but they automatically switch to AptX.
Sound fantastic with HipHop and the bass and highs are both wonderful. Connection seems flawless.
$45 oh so nice.  May need to get rid of other stuff now.

Thank you Headfi board family!!!


----------



## vstolpner

snip3r77 said:


> Why does it blink so much? Contacting aliens?



Could be... I wonder if you have a second pair and turn them on at the same time, will they form a wormhole to their home planet?


----------



## vstolpner

SaveTheMantaRays said:


> Oh my Oh my Oh goodness!!!
> Just received the MPOW T5, had 15 minutes with them.
> They are incredible sounding.  Quickest BT connection to my phone ever. ( Samsung Note 8 )
> And I thought I would need to manually change the codec from AAC to AptX, but they automatically switch to AptX.
> ...



What other ones did you try?


----------



## vladzakhar

I can confirm: Anbes 359 and Kissral sound the same to my ears. And look the same too.


----------



## chinmie

snip3r77 said:


> Why does it blink so much? Contacting aliens?



maybe it's company advertising using morse code


----------



## actorlife

vladzakhar said:


> I can confirm: Anbes 359 and Kissral sound the same to my ears. And look the same too.


We finally got confirmation. Hooray. vladzakhar is da man.


----------



## Shanling

I want to ask for your experience, how are your smartphones dealing with Bluetooth latency?

While any decent dedicated video app have possibility to adjust time delay to negate latency of BT connection, we are so far getting kind of random results when it comes to other apps such as Youtube or games.


----------



## Levanter

Shanling said:


> I want to ask for your experience, how are your smartphones dealing with Bluetooth latency?
> 
> While any decent dedicated video app have possibility to adjust time delay to negate latency of BT connection, we are so far getting kind of random results when it comes to other apps such as Youtube or games.



Follow Apple/Sony's way of making both right & left earbuds connect to the device independently and you'll eliminate the latency issue


----------



## vstolpner

Shanling said:


> I want to ask for your experience, how are your smartphones dealing with Bluetooth latency?
> 
> While any decent dedicated video app have possibility to adjust time delay to negate latency of BT connection, we are so far getting kind of random results when it comes to other apps such as Youtube or games.



All of my BT5.0 TWE's (list in signature) have been fine with most apps - YouTube, Netflix, videos through Chrome. With some delay is nearly 0 seconds, with a few It's been as high as 0.1-0.15 seconds. I think only one (BT20 was above 0.2 seconds)


----------



## Shanling

Levanter said:


> Follow Apple/Sony's way of making both right & left earbuds connect to the device independently and you'll eliminate the latency issue



Bluetooth itself has latency around 150-200 ms, so there should always be some latency.


----------



## Levanter

Shanling said:


> Bluetooth itself has latency around 150-200 ms, so there should always be some latency.



Oh definitely, I meant audible not measurable lol


----------



## Shanling

0.2 is still hearable, at least when you know what to listen for. Especially when you get to games.

My question was more regarding apps, if you know some other apps that are automatically detecting connected BT headphones and setting audio/video delay due to them.


----------



## DigDub

All my apps have imperceptible latency with my S10 phone and Bluetooth earbuds, except for web based videos through Opera mobile. I guess this is due to the apps sending the delay offset, while Opera browser isn't aware it's playing a video and thus does not set a delay. For this, the shortest delay I have encountered is with the Sony wf-1000mx3, there is a very tiny delay but not annoying like other buds.


----------



## Caipirina

PSA: for those with access to amazon.de , the much talked Mpow T5 now come with a 10€ off voucher. Great. Like 10 days after I shelled out the full 60€. Well, still happy with them.


----------



## FYLegend (Jul 19, 2019)

Just got my Earfun Free Oluv edition - first impressions is that the sound relatively neutral with a slight warmth, with a tiny bit of sparkle in the treble and some mid-bass emphasis. Bass is a bit rumbly but not muddy like some of the reviews of the standard edition. A bit deeper sounding than the Astrotec S60, but not as much detail retrieval. Much louder with more stable connection off my phone, but I have noticed a certain rumbling stutter artifact that happens occasionally.

Off my BT 5.0 laptop with SBC, it sounds similar but a tad bit more muddy with the midbass sounding more bloated, and the treble with a more metallic shimmer. Piano sounds become more confusing in piano-hiphop/chillhop/lo-fi tracks. Even so, it is still a respectable sound I would not be dissatisfied with.
 

EDIT: It also has a bit of pressure with the seal for me. I can hear the sound fade a bit when I'm eating or something and when I take out the bud on my right ear, the flange flips back.


----------



## Bartig

FYLegend said:


> Just got my Earfun Free Oluv edition - first impressions is that the sound relatively neutral with a slight warmth, with a tiny bit of sparkle in the treble and some mid-bass emphasis. Bass is a bit rumbly but not muddy like some of the reviews of the standard edition. A bit deeper sounding than the Astrotec S60, but not as much detail retrieval. Much louder with more stable connection off my phone, but I have noticed a certain rumbling stutter artifact that happens occasionally.
> 
> Off my BT 5.0 laptop with SBC, it sounds similar but a tad bit more muddy with the midbass sounding more bloated, and the treble with a more metallic shimmer. Piano sounds become more confusing in piano-hiphop/chillhop/lo-fi tracks. Even so, it is still a respectable sound I would not be dissatisfied with.
> 
> ...


'Would not be dissatisfied with'. What does that mean?


----------



## FYLegend (Jul 19, 2019)

Bartig said:


> 'Would not be dissatisfied with'. What does that mean?


Like L.A. Beast finally trying out the re-release of Crystal Pepsi  It's a good implementation of SBC, and if I didn't know how it sounded with AAC I would think it's fine. It's not as distorted as Astrotec S60.

Wireless charging compatibility of Earfun Free:
ADATA CW0100 (10W) - Works fine, although this is not desirable due to the wireless charger using microUSB. Odd since overall I've had some compatibility issues with it depending on the power brick and cable I use.
Samsung Wireless Charging Stand (2019) - Does not work at all. I know this is a vertical stand, but I also I tried tilting it and repositioning the case.
MYCELL wireless charging power bank - Doesn't work. This was the only charger I have that works with Astrotec S60 (albeit generating a lot of heat).

Good news: Earfun Free also supports Type C to Type C PD charging, so it's not merely a USB 2.0 IC with a Type C connector (the typical cost-cutting measure used by some of the Chi-Fi TWS). I personally don't use PD charging often, but it's nice to see this as a true Type C device.


----------



## bronco1015

vstolpner said:


> No one uses TWS in mono mode, especially nothing over $20.
> 
> I'm sure that people on this forum (and similar forums) would be happy to weigh in on decisions like this.
> 
> And we very much appreciate you providing information on here! This communication goes a long way in purchasing IEM's of a specific brand.


I've actually been keeping my eye out for a pair of TWS that could be used in mono. Specificly, a pair where either could be the master or slave bud. This is because i'm totally blind and need
to be able to hear an employee if they come over to ask me a question...or if my boss walks over to talk.


Spamateur said:


> Even if the Sennheiser MTW didn't have charging issues, the battery life is subpar compared to nearly every cheaper product on the market, and you can get a better-sounding true wireless model for less than half the price of the MTW.


 i just posted the other day about how my MTWs weren't quite 10 times the SQ of the anbes 359 despite being 10 times the cost. But i wanna hear that TWS pair or multiple if mor than 1 that sound better than the MTW. Which model are you refering to?


----------



## nc8000

bronco1015 said:


> I've actually been keeping my eye out for a pair of TWS that could be used in mono. Specificly, a pair where either could be the master or slave bud. This is because i'm totally blind and need
> to be able to hear an employee if they come over to ask me a question...or if my boss walks over to talk.
> 
> i just posted the other day about how my MTWs weren't quite 10 times the SQ of the anbes 359 despite being 10 times the cost. But i wanna hear that TWS pair or multiple if mor than 1 that sound better than the MTW. Which model are you refering to?



I often use just one of my Earin M2 when listening to audio books as they can be used in mono and either bud can be master or slave and either left or right


----------



## bronco1015

Spamateur said:


> Keep in mind all of this is highly subjective, as we all know one person's ideal signature is another person's bloated bass cannon or bright and brittle presentation.
> 
> Full disclosure: I primarily listen to my 2-channel stereo setup at home in a fully treated listening room with Dirac room correction, so my personal preference is for accuracy, natural tonality, and clarity/detail retrieval. This results in something similar to a Harman frequency response. With that said, strong YMMV qualifier:
> 
> ...


 Didn't read ahead before posting a reply to your previous post, Thanks for your thoughts.


----------



## bronco1015

nc8000 said:


> I often use just one of my Earin M2 when listening to audio books as they can be used in mono and either bud can be master or slave and either left or right[/QUOTE   Have you seen anything about a possible successor to the M2?


----------



## nc8000

No nothing


----------



## Soreniglio

vladzakhar said:


> I can confirm: Anbes 359 and Kissral sound the same to my ears. And look the same too.



I think I'm gonna try and sell my Letscom/Coolhere once they are arrive, on Facebook or to friends.

Then buy Kissral (Amazon Italy has them)


----------



## BigZ12 (Jul 19, 2019)

The Kissral R18 commercial says: "Wake up Siri at any time" (Press 3 times in a row to wake up Siri).
My Anbes doesn't do this. (marked Anbes, bought on Aliexpress from ZC Line)
BTW, both the rubber covers have fallen off. I said I glued them back on, but now they're loose again.
Does the covers fall off for everyone?
Have I got a "dud" with loose covers, and no Siri?
Edit: They sound good though


----------



## Soreniglio

It'd be funny if we discovered somehow that Anbes is the rip-off of Kissral LOL


----------



## BobJS

Caipirina said:


> That being said: KEEP ALL THREE (and keep buying more ... you are just at the beginning of the rabbit hole  )





hifi80sman said:


> That's the *correct *answer.


2 words :  Enablers Anonymous


----------



## Bartig

It's insane how good super affordable true wireless earphones sound these days. The Tranya T1-Pro (left above) Mpow T5 (biiig case) and Anbes XG-13 ($13!) are brilliant.


----------



## actorlife

Bartig said:


> It's insane how good super affordable true wireless earphones sound these days. The Tranya T1-Pro (left above) Mpow T5 (biiig case) and Anbes XG-13 ($13!) are brilliant.


Did the Anbes box have the anbes name on it? Is the review up? Was this the model I linked like 3 weeks ago?


----------



## igorneumann

Anyone else bothered by High pitched sound while charging inside the case?

I have this problem with the TFZ X1, but a friend said he had it with several models.


----------



## vstolpner

Levanter said:


> Oh definitely, I meant audible not measurable lol





igorneumann said:


> Anyone else bothered by High pitched sound while charging inside the case?
> 
> I have this problem with the TFZ X1, but a friend said he had it with several models.



Had it with my mifo O5, both when charging the case and charging the earphones inside the case. It's not unusual for electronics to make that sound, but it's typically a sign of cheap parts


----------



## d3myz (Jul 19, 2019)

hifi80sman said:


> That's the same seller I got mine from, so you should be receiving the latest version.  A few pages back, I posted a video if me increasing the volume just as the seller described.


Have you found a way to turn the T5 off besides putting them back in the case that doesn't restart or ffwd the track? The manual says to long press the right bud for 7 seconds.When I listen to audiobooks it's super annoying to lose my place each time I want to power them off. I love the T5 but the super loud "power on" or "disconnected", "Power Off" reminds me of my Jaybird X3's that play a silly jingle at a set volume when powering on and off. Other than those small annoyances, they are fantastic.


----------



## Caipirina (Jul 19, 2019)

actorlife said:


> Did the Anbes box have the anbes name on it? Is the review up? Was this the model I linked like 3 weeks ago?



I think yes, that's the one you recommended on July 5th ... I ordered on 7th an am still waiting ...
You mentioned they would have volume control ... just reading over the specs again, I wonder what gave you the impression (or I might have missed it)


----------



## d3myz

vstolpner said:


> I've been playing with the Tiso i4 and they have a ton of base... Way more than my T3'S.... I'll actually have my review of them up in a day or two... And they look cool + are tiny
> 
> Between the 359 and T3, the T3 do have more base and sit generally nicer. I can understand why some people prefer them... I've actually been using them so much that I need to go back to my 359's to see which one I actually prefer more.
> 
> I do like that the T3'S light doesn't blink incessantly. The Anbes are a little too much "Christmas lights" for me


I'm am always surpirsed how good the Tiso i4 sounds, when I used them, they are so easy to carry around very lightweight and portable, but for me they have absolutely zero sub bass. it's all low/mid bass. If you are getting more bass than the T3 i'd like to what tips you are using, because I need to get on board. The tiso doesn't have quite the soundstage or the definition, The only way I know how to describe it is squashed together with the bass. I do also use the JVC spiral dots with them, and they are a wide bore, maybe I need to try a different tip?


----------



## actorlife

Caipirina said:


> I think yes, that's the one you recommended on July 5th ... I ordered on 7th an am still waiting ...
> You mentioned they would have volume control ... just reading over the specs again, I wonder what gave you the impression (or I might have missed it)


Cool. It says in the specs that they have vol control. If it's coming up as french just change to English on top right of page. My Android would not let me copy and paste for some reason. Also let us know how many hours you get at half volume. Says 3-4hrs. Still for 10 bucks if the sq is anything like the 359 I'll have to acquire them.


----------



## Caipirina

actorlife said:


> Cool. It says in the specs that they have vol control. If it's coming up as french just change to English on top right of page. My Android would not let me copy and paste for some reason. Also let us know how many hours you get at half volume. Says 3-4hrs. Still for 10 bucks if the sq is anything like the 359 I'll have to acquire them.



Maybe @Bartig can shed some light on this, he already received his ...  and I still can't find any mention of volume control ... only find this image 


 

And French would not have been a problem, but it came up in English anyways.


----------



## actorlife

Caipirina said:


> Maybe @Bartig can shed some light on this, he already received his ...  and I still can't find any mention of volume control ... only find this image
> 
> 
> 
> And French would not have been a problem, but it came up in English anyways.


It says it in the Specs section (volume control Yes)


----------



## vstolpner

d3myz said:


> I'm am always surpirsed how good the Tiso i4 sounds, when I used them, they are so easy to carry around very lightweight and portable, but for me they have absolutely zero sub bass. it's all low/mid bass. If you are getting more bass than the T3 i'd like to what tips you are using, because I need to get on board. The tiso doesn't have quite the soundstage or the definition, The only way I know how to describe it is squashed together with the bass. I do also use the JVC spiral dots with them, and they are a wide bore, maybe I need to try a different tip?



I'm just using the stock tips. Maybe just have a different batch?

Though I do agree that they could use a little more definition. If course at that price and that size.... Really surprising what you get out of them


----------



## Caipirina

actorlife said:


> It says it in the Specs section (volume control Yes)



Oh, where it also says that this Ear Hook has Active Noise Cancelling   

 

I stopped trusting those pages long time ago ... they are much better with their pictograms and funny English proverbs


----------



## d3myz (Jul 19, 2019)

Just wanted to share a short experience with my MPOW T5's. I decided to test the IPX7 last night, I've been dying to take a pair of buds in the shower to listen to my book, so I said what the hell. I have a large rain shower with good pressure, I should of worn my medium tips because my s/m spiral dot in my left ear got slippery and one of the T5s fell out. I decided to leave it on the floor of my shower being pounded by water for a couple minutes. after picking it up the led was still flashing and the left button was still controlling the right bud. I could here the click indicator and when I power cycled them I could hear all the audio prompts, but no sound came out when I resumed my book. Damnit!, I exclaimed, I should of known!. I removed the tip and saw a puddle of water resting on the port. I blew it off, stuck it back with little confidence and to my extreme shock.... Perfect again! I can't even convey how impressed I am with the T5. It's the all around best TWS I've used so far, It has everything I want in a TWS and does everything well.


----------



## actorlife

Caipirina said:


> Oh, where it also says that this Ear Hook has Active Noise Cancelling
> 
> 
> 
> I stopped trusting those pages long time ago ... they are much better with their pictograms and funny English proverbs


That bartip is a tease showing us stuff and disappearing. Did I write his name correctly? Yeah those specs are crazy for a cheapo TWS.


----------



## actorlife

d3myz said:


> Just wanted to share a short experience with my MPOW T5's. I decided to test the IPX7 last night, I've been dying to take a pair of buds in the shower to listen to my book, so I said what the hell. I have a large rain shower with good pressure, I should of worn my medium tips because my s/m spiral dot in my left ear got slippery and one of the T5s fell out. I decided to leave it on the floor of my shower being pounded by water for a couple minutes. after picking it up the led was still flashing and the left button was still controlling the right bud. I could here the click indicator and when I power cycled them I could hear all the audio prompts, but no sound came out when I resumed my book. Damnit!, I exclaimed, I should of known!. I removed the tip and saw a puddle of water resting on the port. I blew it off, stuck it back with little confidence and to my extreme shock.... Perfect again! I can't even convey how impressed I am with the T5. It's the all around best TWS I've used so far, It has everything I want in a TWS and does everything well.


You're a nut. Ha-ha I remember you saying you were gonna take some buds in the shower and I was like why? How about getting soaked in the rain and taking pics?


----------



## turbobb

BobJS said:


> 2 words :  Enablers Anonymous



No, we are not... we're  hopelessly pass that point.  At this stage, we're more like:  Enablers 'R Us


----------



## d3myz (Jul 19, 2019)

vstolpner said:


> I'm just using the stock tips. Maybe just have a different batch?
> 
> Though I do agree that they could use a little more definition. If course at that price and that size.... Really surprising what you get out of them



Wow, I can't believe how different they sound with the stock tips!! Way more low bass, but the treble is a little thinner and pitchy. With the spiral dots, the treble and mids sound more clear and crisp, bass is punchy, but honestly I think I like the stock better. These little TWS's are so Awesome! I need to step up my tip game. I basically use the spiral dots and the cheap radioshack wire bores for everything.

edit: to clarify i'm using the stock tiso sport tips, with the squarish ends the rounded stocks have even more bass, unbelievable.


----------



## d3myz

actorlife said:


> You're a nut. Ha-ha I remember you saying you were gonna take some buds in the shower and I was like why? How about getting soaked in the rain and taking pics?


I'm going to take them in the pool next.


----------



## Bartig

actorlife said:


> Did the Anbes box have the anbes name on it? Is the review up? Was this the model I linked like 3 weeks ago?


Yes, it's that one for 11 euros. 



Caipirina said:


> Maybe @Bartig can shed some light on this, he already received his ...  and I still can't find any mention of volume control ... only find this image
> 
> 
> 
> And French would not have been a problem, but it came up in English anyways.


Three presses on the right earphone increases the volume, three presses on the left one decreases it. Of course, pressing with a real button isn't the most comfortable, but I'm surprised a pair of this price offers volume controls anyway.



actorlife said:


> That bartip is a tease showing us stuff and disappearing. Did I write his name correctly? Yeah those specs are crazy for a cheapo TWS.


Haha, almost. I haven't researched the specs mentioned, all I know so far is it sounds good (although very, very bassy) for the price.

I don't want to disappear... it's just Friday evening is drinks evening.


----------



## actorlife (Jul 19, 2019)

Bartig said:


> Yes, it's that one for 11 euros.
> 
> 
> Three presses on the right earphone increases the volume, three presses on the left one decreases it. Of course, pressing with a real button isn't the most comfortable, but I'm surprised a pair of this price offers volume controls anyway.
> ...


Whoops thanks. How is the soundstage and treble? I can always eq the bass. I might have a beer later Timothy(what the damn auto correct) been a bad week for me well month but who's counting.


----------



## d3myz

I'm sorry if this has been discussed here before, but who's using what tips and on what? What are the benefits of a large bore vs. a small bore? My impression is a large bore give better detail and can reduce bass and a small bore vice versa. Thoughts?


----------



## actorlife

Big bore= Bass/ Small bore= Less bass more of a neutral sound if I remember correctly.


----------



## wes1099

So I got my Jabra Elite 65t 2 days ago and they are pretty good except the left earbud dies in about 5 minutes. Do you guys think I should return and get a replacement or can I get something better for my $120?


----------



## wes1099

chinmie said:


> the 65T is a solid product. the only thing that made me sold it was because of the imbalance issue with my phone (note 8), and my wife won't use it because it's too big for her ears. no imbalance issue with her phone (pixel 2 xl). if you like the 65T sound and want a cheaper product, you could always return it and try the QCY T1C.
> 
> or, you could also follow this advice:
> 
> ...



That's interesting. My left earbud on my 65t doesn't produce any sound at all after about 5 minutes (using my iPhone 7), but now I'm curious to see if it does the same thing with my brother's phone (iPhone 8) or my old phone (LG G3).



MarkF786 said:


> I bought the Jabra Elite 65T as well (note there was also 20% cash back if paid for with an Amazon credit card, so the price was even lower).  I also ordered the SpinFit CP360 eartips, designed for the Jabra's.
> 
> I must saw, I'm impressed with the sound quality of the Jabra's which was further improved with the SpinFit eartips.  And the features of the Jabra seem pretty solid.  I feel I got my money's worth.



I ordered the spinfit tips within 30 seconds of putting them in my ears because those stock tips are pretty awful. I'm sure I would have been very pleased if the silly left earbud would work :/


----------



## jant71

House of Marley coming with one by next month:



"LIBERATE AIR"

LIBERATE AIR is a completely wireless earphone featuring a bamboo design on the face plate. In order to cope with the marine plastic waste problem, it was developed using environmentally friendly materials, and it uses REWIND fabric consisting of natural wood fiber composite material made from bamboo and sawdust, recyclable aluminum, and plastic bottles for the main body.



The charging case is also eco-friendly. Bamboo is also used for the plate when the case is opened

It is equipped with φ5.6mm driver, and Qualcomm "QCC 3020" is adopted for the Bluetooth chip. The Bluetooth version supports 5.0+ BLE and the codec supports SBC / AAC / aptX / aptXL.

The housing has a built-in sensor that allows you to use touch control to play / stop music, send / return music, answer calls, and call Siri / Google assistant functions. In addition, IPX 4 waterproof specification that is resistant to sweat, it can be used during exercise.

The earphone can be played continuously for up to 9 hours on a full charge, and can be used for about 32 hours in combination with the charging case. When initial pairing with the device is completed, pairing will be completed automatically just by opening the lid of the stored charging case from the next time.

Eartips come with S / M / L sizes. Others Include the carrying case and USB TYPE-C charging cable. The mass is approximately 14g for the earphones and 58g for the case.

Review...
https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=ja&u=https://www.phileweb.com/&prev=search


----------



## actorlife

wes1099 said:


> So I got my Jabra Elite 65t 2 days ago and they are pretty good except the left earbud dies in about 5 minutes. Do you guys think I should return and get a replacement or can I get something better for my $120?



These are top 4  *My* *TWS Overviews*: Click here


----------



## hifi80sman

jant71 said:


> House of Marley coming with one by next month:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


$249 seems a little steep when the WF-1000XM3 retails for $229.

Like other HoM products, this will drop in price.


----------



## actorlife

jant71 said:


> House of Marley coming with one by next month:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I like the wood look on the Earbuds and case. I have some wooden ones as well on a Sivga headphones and 2 IEMs. Those are gonna be Bass canons. Too expensive for me. My limit is $80.


----------



## jant71

Converts to $147 for me 

Even at CES..."pair of true wireless earbuds. Called the Liberate Air, the new headphones will feature seven hours of battery life, and are IPX4 rated for sweat and water resistance. Bluetooth 5.0 and touch controls are built into the headphones, providing what should be great stability and ease of use. They will retail for $150, and will be available in July 2019."

Seems they were able to up the battery 2 more hours

Just doesn't seem to have volume which is a no-go for me.


----------



## HiFlight

wes1099 said:


> So I got my Jabra Elite 65t 2 days ago and they are pretty good except the left earbud dies in about 5 minutes. Do you guys think I should return and get a replacement or can I get something better for my $120?


Sounds like your left earbud is not charging properly.  Did you check to see if the contacts still have the small piece of clear tape still attached?


----------



## oranelle (Jul 19, 2019)

Functional comparison: adv model x, creative outlier air(black), mpow t5
Received t5, and gave couple of tests.
gears: sumsang note 9(Soc 845, APTX or ACC output)
           surface 3 pro (win10)
           Garmin va3m(BT4.0, SBC?)
           Akg nc60(APTX)
model x: my first tws. An indiegogo funding product. Supports to AAC. The reason I bought is yet negative feedback online. And their "sleeper earphone" is the top2 best sale on e-earphone.jp . My thought was if they sell earphone for sleeping and can provide customizing IEM. It will be comfortable as well for other products. The experience of pre-purchase is super. Clear nevigation on the website and msg update for the shipping. But the happiness lasts short.

pros: 1. compact and comfort.
          2. small unit, you can still notice there are in your ears when shaking your head. So every 10min I will put em deeper when running.
          3. auto pause when remove from ears.

cons: 1. The touch control on the left ear is defective. So difficult to hard reset, cos the left one is either unsensitive or complete no respond. (fully charged). I read the thread and found someone's another brand tws from indiegogo has the same issue. Then I knew the trick,they may original from the same place but tuned by different audio company later.
          2. My Garmin watch uses old bluetooth chip. Only works when tws master is on the left side when you wear your watch on the left. So I will not blame the tws if the master side is on the right like model x.
          3. sound is clean. I'm not an audiophile. I could only tell the sq is between sumsang's free oem earphone and the free ones from AA flight. It's not pleasure when you use only one earbud or under a high volumn. Cos the highs will be broken.
          4. price is $79. I thought it worth only $30 when compares to the latter ones.
          5. No way to turn off the earbuds and pairing a second device. You have to put back to the case, and pull it out, and turn off your first device's bluetooth.
          6. Most important. There is NO post-purchase service at all. No one reply you no matter you leave a message or send email. There is no phone# you can find on their website. That makes return service a joke. Yes, it's truely no hassle return when there is no one reply you.

Creative outlier air
late june batch, come with two different sizes eartips. ppl solved the connection issue. But
Pros:
1. Sound is enjoyable and close to you.
2. The price is good by using aptx chip (QCC 302X) from a reputed company.
3. No dropout when set left as the master to connect to my va3m.
4. Very good service. responds within 24hrs, usually around midnight EST.
5. I feel isolation is good which is against soundguys score.
Cons:
1. Tons of dropout when use outdoor with my note 9. Indoor is robust. But put phone in the left front pocket, set right as master. The sound is not hearable at all. Set left as master, it will be slightly better than right.
2. comes with medium and small size tips. The left ear is good, the right tip keep scratching my ear canal. The body is pretty big and feel headache at the beginning and ear fatigue after a while. Last time I feel bluetooth headache is sony anc over the head. Also I was surprised to feel Stethoscope Effect when use this creative tws.
3. You can set up left or right as the master. The ad says you can use up to 7hr/9hrs depending on the codec. But the pain is, your master will be dead way sooner than the slave. I have no sound of left master, but remains 40% battary for the right slave.
4. Lights on the earbuds are horrible when you stop playing and talk to some one.

Mpow t5
Thanks to this thread. Let me pick up this out of numrious similar ones.
First impression:
Size is between model x and outlier air. This lot (order during prime day) has been  well printed QCC3020 (not 26), and 5hrs life per charge（not 7). Volume control works like a charm.(only on some app/os, garmin watch cannot be remotely controlled).
Pro:
1. Enjoyable sound out of the box. more like model x, colder than creative air. More details than model x, outlier air and akg nc60. I use the same accapella to test em. First time, hear a whistle sound in the middle. Got a goose skin and jump from my chair. confirm another 2 times.
2. No dropout in both pockets outdoor (note 9). The connection is rock solid indoor as well. You will suffer occasionally dropout when change tracks by model x.
3. Put garmin on the left hand, the connection is ok. Start to run, you can hear some bubble's sound. I know it's beginning to throw me away. Then I slow down from pace 11.30 to 13, and it's better. But something happened after 5min, there is no dropout at all since then. I need test more time and post back.
4. no sync issue when use youtube on ipad.
5. fit and sealed really well by the large tips. When shaking my head and running, the earbuds like melted into the head.
Cons:
1. When I play, there is a white light flash but pretty dim.
2. two "mpow t5" on ipad and garmin. one on note 9.


----------



## hifi80sman

jant71 said:


> Converts to $147 for me
> 
> Even at CES..."pair of true wireless earbuds. Called the Liberate Air, the new headphones will feature seven hours of battery life, and are IPX4 rated for sweat and water resistance. Bluetooth 5.0 and touch controls are built into the headphones, providing what should be great stability and ease of use. They will retail for $150, and will be available in July 2019."
> 
> ...


Actually, I missed that it was in AUD.  For me, that converts to $176.  Still steep considering the WF-1000XM3 retails for $229 (will likely have frequent sales at $199, $179).

Now, that being said, that's based on my experience with HoM in the past.  Solid mid-range brand, but at 4x+ the cost of the MPOW T5 ($40), for me, I'm not too excited.

But hey, don't get me wrong, I do appreciate new releases as you come across them!


----------



## hifi80sman

oranelle said:


> Got a goose skin and jump from my chair. confirm another 2 times.


LOL!  The MPOW T5 have been my daily drivers for over a week and I still love 'em, particularly the call quality.


----------



## wes1099

HiFlight said:


> Sounds like your left earbud is not charging properly.  Did you check to see if the contacts still have the small piece of clear tape still attached?


Yeah I've already done all of the troubleshooting. I think the battery is just bad. If I leave it charging overnight i get about 30 seconds of use before the left side starts to dramatically drop in volume.


----------



## wes1099

actorlife said:


> These are top 4  *My* *TWS Overviews*: Click here


Do you think the Funcl W1 sound quality can compete with the Jabra?


----------



## jant71

hifi80sman said:


> Actually, I missed that it was in AUD.  For me, that converts to $176.  Still steep considering the WF-1000XM3 retails for $229 (will likely have frequent sales at $199, $179).
> 
> Now, that being said, that's based on my experience with HoM in the past.  Solid mid-range brand, but at 4x+ the cost of the MPOW T5 ($40), for me, I'm not too excited.
> 
> But hey, don't get me wrong, I do appreciate new releases as you come across them!



Yep, no skin in the game. HoM has always seemed decent but not that good. Not upset if anything is ignored or panned just good to get things known. 

Doubt I'll ever go truly wireless over my SBH60 since they are much more convenient and the in-ears don't have that size soundstage and the controls are much more complicated. 

Maybe one that has a small remote so I don't have to go under a hat or push buds into my ears and the earpieces attach to each other magnetically that you can break apart to turn pause/on/off so you don't need the case at all if you so choose esp. since battery life is going closer to 20 nowadays. Oh and onboard storage to put some tunes and podcasts on without needing a device at all. Oh, and a leash attachment so you can hang them around your neck if you want. A decent EQ w/o any apps would be nice as well(Mee Cinema Ear is quite decent).


----------



## actorlife

wes1099 said:


> Do you think the Funcl W1 sound quality can compete with the Jabra?


Never heard the Jabra, but from that list I think the Anbes can sure compete.


----------



## Bartig (Jul 19, 2019)

actorlife said:


> Whoops thanks. How is the soundstage and treble? I can always eq the bass. I might have a beer later Timothy(what the damn auto correct) been a bad week for me well month but who's counting.


Soundstage and especially instrument placement are ridiculously good for the price, with things like drum solos moving from left to right and proper separation between the different drums. The highs don't extend that much, yet they resolve a fair amount of detail. Heck, if you turn down the bass in an equalizer, the XG-13 actually seems to share its sound signature with the T5 and T1-Pro, but this maybe too early of a conclusion.



wes1099 said:


> So I got my Jabra Elite 65t 2 days ago and they are pretty good except the left earbud dies in about 5 minutes. Do you guys think I should return and get a replacement or can I get something better for my $120?


First, see if you can charge them by changing their fit in the charging case. If that doesn't work, do by all means try to get a replacement. The Elite are great when it comes to comfort, battery life and call quality.


----------



## FYLegend

wes1099 said:


> So I got my Jabra Elite 65t 2 days ago and they are pretty good except the left earbud dies in about 5 minutes. Do you guys think I should return and get a replacement or can I get something better for my $120?



Unless you care about features like ambient sound or good call quality, I'd look elsewhere. There's the Galaxy buds which is 130$ USD, but unfortunately here in Canada they're stuck at 200$ CAD.I just ordered the Jabees Firefly Pro the other day which has similar features but has Type C and wireless charging. JLab Air Executive is another budget option with ambient sound, although it is a "stem" design with a built-in type A cable. 



chinmie said:


> the 65T is a solid product. the only thing that made me sold it was because of the imbalance issue with my phone (note 8), and my wife won't use it because it's too big for her ears. no imbalance issue with her phone (pixel 2 xl). if you like the 65T sound and want a cheaper product, you could always return it and try the QCY T1C.


I get imbalance regardless what device I use (Note 9 and ASUS Zenbook Pro, both of which have BT 5.0). Sometimes it starts out badly imbalanced and settles down somewhat after a few seconds of playback. Connection is quite solid on my phone but on my laptop it has been pretty bad lately. The left bud clips and also hisses louder above 70% volume. There's a number of other durability issues with the 65T that might not be noticeable depending on your usage:
- If the case is dropped, the buds will fall right out as they are not magnetically mounted. However, the case uses magnets under the rubber housing to turn off the buds when they are stored - once these get dislodged you'll need to take off the rubber part and reposition the magnets into their slot or else your buds will not turn off automatically when stored.
- Once pressure vents and the nozzle get stuff inside, sound will drop substantially, not just due to the nozzle being blocked, but this also seems to affect the driver pressure. You'll need to take a toothpick or needle and pry out any lint. 

After about a day with Earfun Oluv's, the closest-sounding IEM I can think of is Audio-Technica ATH-LS50 - neutral-warm with somewhat muffled bass. It handles bass in lofi tracks decently, but once you listen to something with ambient soundscape like Coldplay's Mylo Xyloto or Lose Yourself To Dance by Daft Punk it falls short and sounds sloppy. You can hear some detail retrieval, but it ends up somewhat splashy therefore the soundstage becomes a tad congested. Still, overall I prefer the sound to Jabra 65T which is just bright without actually retrieving much detail (similar to ATH-E40 but not as refined).


----------



## hifi80sman

jant71 said:


> Yep, no skin in the game. HoM has always seemed decent but not that good. Not upset if anything is ignored or panned just good to get things known.
> 
> Doubt I'll ever go truly wireless over my SBH60 since they are much more convenient and the in-ears don't have that size soundstage and the controls are much more complicated.
> 
> Maybe one that has a small remote so I don't have to go under a hat or push buds into my ears and the earpieces attach to each other magnetically that you can break apart to turn pause/on/off so you don't need the case at all if you so choose esp. since battery life is going closer to 20 nowadays. Oh and onboard storage to put some tunes and podcasts on without needing a device at all. Oh, and a leash attachment so you can hang them around your neck if you want. A decent EQ w/o any apps would be nice as well(Mee Cinema Ear is quite decent).


I actually enjoyed the MEE Cinema and find it woks great for, well, movies.  

Ended up giving them to my son for movies/games.

Looking forward to the Klipsch T5 and the Bose 700 In-Ear, but man, those things are far off.  They need to ramp up production like Sony!


----------



## snip3r77

What’s the sure way to get an OG anbes 359?


----------



## hifi80sman

FYLegend said:


> Unless you care about features like ambient sound or good call quality, I'd look elsewhere. There's the Galaxy buds which is 130$ USD, but unfortunately here in Canada they're stuck at 200$ CAD.I just ordered the Jabees Firefly Pro the other day which has similar features but has Type C and wireless charging. JLab Air Executive is another budget option with ambient sound, although it is a "stem" design with a built-in type A cable.


The Jlab Air Executive is solid at $69 USD.  The only thing, is the highs are a bit sharp (upper treble), so I had to EQ them down 5db or so.  Call quality was decent enough, but some people said they heard a little bit of an echo.

At $120, you could get a few nice pairs if you don't care about ambient mode.  You could work the Chi-Fi trifecta of MPOW T5, Anbes 359, and Tranya T3.


----------



## hifi80sman

snip3r77 said:


> What’s the sure way to get an OG anbes 359?


Get the Kissral R18 and rub off Kissral R18.  _*Pretty sure*_ it's the same unit from the same OEM.  Not sure "Anbes" and "Kissral" are *real* companies, likely just different holding entities for the same OEM in China.

Sometimes, you'll have the same shell and the internals are different, but that's generally with a "name brand" re-brand (Raycon) vs. a Chi-Fi "company" re-brand (MEEGOOD or whatever).


----------



## chinmie

d3myz said:


> Just wanted to share a short experience with my MPOW T5's. I decided to test the IPX7 last night, I've been dying to take a pair of buds in the shower to listen to my book, so I said what the hell. I have a large rain shower with good pressure, I should of worn my medium tips because my s/m spiral dot in my left ear got slippery and one of the T5s fell out. I decided to leave it on the floor of my shower being pounded by water for a couple minutes. after picking it up the led was still flashing and the left button was still controlling the right bud. I could here the click indicator and when I power cycled them I could hear all the audio prompts, but no sound came out when I resumed my book. Damnit!, I exclaimed, I should of known!. I removed the tip and saw a puddle of water resting on the port. I blew it off, stuck it back with little confidence and to my extreme shock.... Perfect again! I can't even convey how impressed I am with the T5. It's the all around best TWS I've used so far, It has everything I want in a TWS and does everything well.





actorlife said:


> You're a nut. Ha-ha I remember you saying you were gonna take some buds in the shower and I was like why? How about getting soaked in the rain and taking pics?



I dunked my Mifo o5 in a glass of water the first time i took it out of the box, and used them as my designated showering sessions TWS 

standing under the shower with music running in your ears is a great experience 
the only thing that can beat that is actually swimming with earphones (i use the Sony WS410 for that) 

now I'm basically set with my current TWS collection, but the T5 is really tempting to take the place of my Mifo that i sold


----------



## wes1099

The MPOW T5 seem like a pretty solid option. Also looking at the TFZ X1/Mifo O5. Can the BA drivers provide decent bass response? Only BA iem's i have are hybrid so they have a dynamic driver as well. Never heard a BA by itself before.


----------



## chinmie

wes1099 said:


> The MPOW T5 seem like a pretty solid option. Also looking at the TFZ X1/Mifo O5. Can the BA drivers provide decent bass response? Only BA iem's i have are hybrid so they have a dynamic driver as well. Never heard a BA by itself before.



single BA can have a good bass, but usually it will compromise by tuning it warmer and with less emphasis on the treble. the Mifo o5 pro is tuned to have a clean mids and treble, so the bass (while still adequate and present) will not be too big and extend too low


----------



## HiFlight

wes1099 said:


> Yeah I've already done all of the troubleshooting. I think the battery is just bad. If I leave it charging overnight i get about 30 seconds of use before the left side starts to dramatically drop in volume.


Are you getting both red rings when both phones are in the charger?  If so, have them exchanged for a new pair.  Mine work flawlessly and sound great.   The app is also a huge asset.


----------



## chinmie

wes1099 said:


> So I got my Jabra Elite 65t 2 days ago and they are pretty good except the left earbud dies in about 5 minutes. Do you guys think I should return and get a replacement or can I get something better for my $120?



i bet the left side also charges quickly compared to the normal working right one? i have the same problem with my sabbat E12, turns out the battery is bad. you should better return it and get it replaced


----------



## riodgarp

did true wireless charging case has standby time? my mifo state its has 100 days standby time, I don't understand cause usually both tws and case are turned off if the battery are full on buds


----------



## wes1099

HiFlight said:


> Are you getting both red rings when both phones are in the charger?  If so, have them exchanged for a new pair.  Mine work flawlessly and sound great.   The app is also a huge asset.


Yes, I get the red light on both ear buds when I put them in the charger. What type of poke do you use yours with? It looks like people might have better success with Jabras on android, but that might just be because most iPhone users have airpods.



chinmie said:


> i bet the left side also charges quickly compared to the normal working right one? i have the same problem with my sabbat E12, turns out the battery is bad. you should better return it and get it replaced


Yep, that is exactly what happens.


----------



## BigZ12

BigZ12 said:


> The Kissral R18 commercial says: "Wake up Siri at any time" (Press 3 times in a row to wake up Siri).
> My Anbes doesn't do this. (marked Anbes, bought on Aliexpress from ZC Line)
> BTW, both the rubber covers have fallen off. I said I glued them back on, but now they're loose again.
> Does the covers fall off for everyone?
> ...


Tried another type of glue, but it was too "runny" so I ruined my Anbes...  (They still work, but don't look good with solidified glue "everywhere", and one cover got torn. Should've used a gel-type glue?)
Are the rubber covers stuck for most of you??

No comments about the Kissral / Anbes and Siri? Can anyone with Kissral confirm Siri works? 
https://www.kissral.com/products/tws-bluetooth-kissral-r18-ufo-headphones-black (this picture appears in this link)


----------



## FYLegend

Any recommendation for TWS that can be used for piano listening? So far most of the ones I've tried fail in some regard because piano notes cause clipping. The Earfun Free clips more on the left bud, it's obvious in Asience Fast Piano by Ryuichi Sakamoto, the Jabra 65t does the same thing but only on the left bud...


----------



## snip3r77

FYLegend said:


> Any recommendation for TWS that can be used for piano listening? So far most of the ones I've tried fail in some regard because piano notes cause clipping. The Earfun Free clips more on the left bud, it's obvious in Asience Fast Piano by Ryuichi Sakamoto, the Jabra 65t does the same thing but only on the left bud...


Wow you can handle the lag?


----------



## Bartig

Let's see what this does...


----------



## vstolpner

FYLegend said:


> Any recommendation for TWS that can be used for piano listening? So far most of the ones I've tried fail in some regard because piano notes cause clipping. The Earfun Free clips more on the left bud, it's obvious in Asience Fast Piano by Ryuichi Sakamoto, the Jabra 65t does the same thing but only on the left bud...



Try one of the balanced armature ones, especially ones that use Knowles BA drivers


----------



## clerkpalmer

I have a nib box of Anbes 359 incoming that were purchased on eBay that I don’t need. If anyone in the US wants em pm me. I can do 40 shipped which is exactly what I paid.


----------



## snip3r77

clerkpalmer said:


> I have a nib box of Anbes 359 incoming that were purchased on eBay that I don’t need. If anyone in the US wants em pm me. I can do 40 shipped which is exactly what I paid.



Sorry but I think ppl can get it for $29 at ali


----------



## clerkpalmer (Jul 20, 2019)

snip3r77 said:


> Sorry but I think ppl can get it for $29 at ali


That’s fine. I’m not looking to do anything but hook someone up who wants them. No need to criticize. If no one wants them, I’ll keep them. No biggie.
I grabbed them for someone who didn’t want to wait and then that person found a pair and I wasn’t going to stick him with them. Just trying to be a good headfier.


----------



## falang

snip3r77 said:


> Sorry but I think ppl can get it for $29 at ali


If you were following this thread you'd see that original Anbes appear to be hard to find, especially on Aliexpress. 

Also, this guy, Mr Palmer, purchased these for another person and was just trying to help someone find an original pair by purchasing and shipping it to them as they could not. 

So, I'd cut him some slack.


----------



## actorlife

clerkpalmer said:


> That’s fine. I’m not looking to do anything but hook someone up who wants them. No need to criticize. If no one wants them, I’ll keep them. No biggie.
> I grabbed them for someone who didn’t want to wait and then that person found a pair and I wasn’t going to stick him with them. Just trying to be a good headfier.


Why not keep them? Did the SQ not suit you? Just curious.


----------



## actorlife

Bartig said:


> Let's see what this does...


What are those? are they available in blue? and how much?


----------



## chinmie

actorlife said:


> What are those? are they available in blue? and how much?



the Femperna, only available in black and red though


----------



## actorlife

Bartig said:


> Soundstage and especially instrument placement are ridiculously good for the price, with things like drum solos moving from left to right and proper separation between the different drums. The highs don't extend that much, yet they resolve a fair amount of detail. Heck, if you turn down the bass in an equalizer, the XG-13 actually seems to share its sound signature with the T5 and T1-Pro, but this maybe too early of a conclusion.


That's a great start comparing the mpow($45-50) to the anbes($10). I mean ten bucks I might have to break budget next week. I'm praying for good news next week. I forgot to mention beside the wired bt mpow earlier this year maybe Feb I bought the one piece Mpow EM1 bt 4.1 for phone calls, but never really used them. The SQ for call/music is fantastic.


----------



## clerkpalmer

actorlife said:


> Why not keep them? Did the SQ not suit you? Just curious.


I’d didn’t plan to open them. I have multiple tws and really don’t need them. But if no one wants them, I probably will.


----------



## actorlife

clerkpalmer said:


> I’d didn’t plan to open them. I have multiple tws and really don’t need them. But if no one wants them, I probably will.


I just wanted your take on them since you only buy over my budget TWS. ✌️☕


----------



## WesennTony

actorlife said:


> I just wanted your take on them since you only buy over my budget TWS. ✌️☕


I owned Anbes 359 as well, but gave them to my wife. They sound OK, maybe great for their price, but lose a lot of details in sound comparing to higher priced options like mavin air-X and Nural NT01AX. They have the best sound isolation from what I owned/tried, which I miss, but with foam tips on NT01AX, I can achieve the same isolation. 

To me the best sounding pair are NT01AX, neutral sound sig, great sound stage and imaging, and extremely articulate yet visceral. The only complaint is their size, but they may need that echo chamber for the sound stage, so I'm learning to live with that. I happened to find that the foam tips from Earin M2 fit NT01AX perferctly, so that I can use them for yard work with improved isolation. 

I tried a lot of <$100 buds, Sabbat X12 pro and E12, Mifo O5 pro,  AsctroTec Motivation, together with Anbes 359. Ended up returning or giving away all of them now. They all sound good for their price, but I can still clearly tell the difference comparing with air-X and NT01AX. To me the best solution would be to find the "high end" pair with good fit and comfort, then do the tip rolling and EQ for different genre/mood. Just my 2cents.


----------



## Bartig

actorlife said:


> What are those? are they available in blue? and how much?





chinmie said:


> the Femperna, only available in black and red though


Yes, that's the Femperna. But you can leave them be. The total genericness of the item makes them feel and look cheap, even though their red outside shells are marvelous to look at. The sound is even worse. A hollow, mid bass bleeding mess with a proper left right imbalance.


----------



## Bartig (Jul 20, 2019)

Happily, we're moving on fast today. The QCY T3 appeared! 



These definitely need more testing. Touch controls require some getting used to and because the ear tips are made to fit the stem rather than your ear, getting the optimal fit and thus sound quality are extremely challenging.

More soon.


----------



## chinmie

Bartig said:


> Yes, that's the Femperna. But you can leave them be. The total genericness of the item makes them feel and look cheap, even though their red outside shells are marvelous to look at. The sound is even worse. A hollow, mid bass bleeding mess with a proper left right imbalance.



yes, it's quite the looker, even in the real photos from reviewers in AE. but a couple of things that stopped me from buying it is because of the touch controls (meaning i can turn it on without the case, which is essential in my everyday use), and because the  shallow tip model, whih i figure won't fit regular sized eartips in the case. add to that i read a review that said the sound is disappointing.. thank you for taking the bullet and confirming, because i trust your reviews and that most of your reviews are really similar to what i concluded in my own experience with the said products. 



Bartig said:


> Happily, we're moving on fast today. The QCY T3 appeared!
> 
> 
> 
> ...



now this is interesting. I'll be waiting for your conclusion. is this can take standard sized eartips?


----------



## Caipirina

oranelle said:


> Got a goose skin and jump from my chair.



Did you know this sensation is known as 'Frisson' ?  
_
*Frisson* (French for 'shiver'), also known as *aesthetic chills*, *musical chills*, and colloquially as a *skin orgasm*,[1][2] is a psychophysiological response to rewarding auditory and/or visual stimuli that induces a pleasurable or otherwise positively-valenced affective state and transient paresthesia (skin tingling or chills)_


----------



## david8613 (Jul 20, 2019)

Anyone see these?


What about these, has aptx

https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B07THV7NL1/ref=ox_sc_act_image_1?smid=A38BVKBQDU1MD9&psc=1
I am pretty sure I want to get the new sonys because of Sony sound sig, unless there is another high end tw I should be looking at? Suggestions?

I want to pick another chi-fi tw. I'm totally enjoying my anbes 359 and my tranya t3. Which is better between the earfun free and mpow t5?


----------



## oranelle

Caipirina said:


> Did you know this sensation is known as 'Frisson' ?
> _
> *Frisson* (French for 'shiver'), also known as *aesthetic chills*, *musical chills*, and colloquially as a *skin orgasm*,[1][2] is a psychophysiological response to rewarding auditory and/or visual stimuli that induces a pleasurable or otherwise positively-valenced affective state and transient paresthesia (skin tingling or chills)_



LOL. Im not an english speaker. This exactly the right word!


----------



## slipstreamrider

Hey guys, I'm looking for some advice for my first true wireless set.

I prefer a slightly warm sound signature with nice clarity and transparency in the mids that really bring out the details in vocals. Comfort is super important. Having volume control, a low profile design (not jutting out of ears too much) and a smallish case would be nice, but secondary to comfort and sound. I do not need the best mic quality or IPX rating. 

What's my best bet among these options? (Under $100, roughly sorted by price)

Creative Outlier Air
1More Stylish TWS
TFZ X1
Sabbat E12
Astrotec Motivation (S80)
Mpow T5
Tranya T3
TaoTronics SoundLiberty 53
Anbes 359
SoundPEATS TrueCapsule True Wireless
I'm sort of leaning towards the Mpow or the Tranya. The Anbes seems like great bang for the buck but I don't want to wait several weeks for them to ship from aliexpress. 

Cheers for all the great info in this thread ^^


----------



## FYLegend

vstolpner said:


> Try one of the balanced armature ones, especially ones that use Knowles BA drivers


Yeah, Astrotec S60 doesnt distort as much for pianos using AAC but if want a stable connection I need to use SBC which adds distortion especially on the left driver. It's still liveable for busy tracks but in certain situations it sound like waters running lightly on the left bud. It could just be my unit but the AAC disconnects still happened with the store's demo unit.

It does make me wonder how much beyond the limit of a driver the amp and DSP EQ are being pushed on some of these TWS and whether this is causing the clipping to occur.

I mentioned Earfun stuttering or "aliasing" in sound before, similar to how a TV signal sometimes echoes or stretches instead of actually cutting out. It seems this mainly happens only if your device is connected to multiple Bluetooth devices at once. I had my phone paired to both a speaker and the Earfun Free and it started doing this every few seconds. Otherwise the connection is very stable, even more than the BE30 UFO and Jabra 65t.


----------



## Caipirina (Jul 20, 2019)

slipstreamrider said:


> I'm sort of leaning towards the Mpow or the Tranya. The Anbes seems like great bang for the buck but I don't want to wait several weeks for them to ship from aliexpress.
> 
> Cheers for all the great info in this thread ^^



You can get both the Tranya and the Mpow TOGETHER for 100$  

if AptX is important for you and you like a nice faux leather case, go with Mpow ... i think the Tranya has a tad more bass over the Mpow ...

Then again, the Anbes has the most sleek 'not cork sticking out of ear' design and a very pocketable case ...


----------



## Caipirina

Do I need to get the Nillkin Go? 

I recall faintly someone here was very vocal about them ... 

yes, I don't have enough TWE yet


----------



## disfiguredlabrynth (Jul 21, 2019)

I would like to retract my statement about the mifo sounding muffled. They broke in a little bit more and the vocals sound much cleaner and fuller. Plus I got the S10+ and the mifo's sound changed for the better. My lg v20 did not have good bluetooth at all apparently  (not even any bluetooth developer options available What LG) and connections would drop even when I was holding the phone mere inchesfrom my face. It was extremely tattered so I can't complain.
- Separation and soundstage got even better and the treble is more open. Bass has a greater impact but not uncontrolled. Connection never dropped. I haven't been able to listen in depth as I only had my new phone with no music on it but I'll comment later. Pretty immersive experience for a tws. And you know what? Dolby Atmos isn't half bad when activated.

Fit is rather good but ear tip dependant. I have small ears and they fit pretty flush and I sleep with them on (fourth of July in America- apparently noone has run out of fireworks). 


One sad note is the case is scuffing a bit. (See pic) I like my aluminum pristine, but I suppose I can live with this.

I gotta export all my music to my phone now it is an enjoyable but rather tedious process. At least the s10+ has a sd slot (unlike the note 10- no Jack ,no slot?!) so it isn't that hard.

So yeah. Mifo o5 is a less regrettable purchase. I've gotten compliments of the way they look from coworkers, so at least i know I don't look completely ridiculous lol.


Edit: some people say these don't get loud enough. Turning them up all the way on the tws themselves and THEN on your device will give you a louder and fuller sounding experience. They get pretty loud, but since the sound isn't generally in your face (like the bassy but fun haylou) they won't sound AS loud as those.

Idk what my next one would be after these. I would love a more fun/ bassier one, hopefully with the same good battery life as the mifo o5. Maybe one with red designing (I'm sorry I just love red). There seem to be some cool looking ones on Amazon. Off I go again!


----------



## vstolpner

FYLegend said:


> Yeah, Astrotec S60 doesnt distort as much for pianos using AAC but if want a stable connection I need to use SBC which adds distortion especially on the left driver. It's still liveable for busy tracks but in certain situations it sound like waters running lightly on the left bud. It could just be my unit but the AAC disconnects still happened with the store's demo unit.
> 
> It does make me wonder how much beyond the limit of a driver the amp and DSP EQ are being pushed on some of these TWS and whether this is causing the clipping to occur.
> 
> I mentioned Earfun stuttering or "aliasing" in sound before, similar to how a TV signal sometimes echoes or stretches instead of actually cutting out. It seems this mainly happens only if your device is connected to multiple Bluetooth devices at once. I had my phone paired to both a speaker and the Earfun Free and it started doing this every few seconds. Otherwise the connection is very stable, even more than the BE30 UFO and Jabra 65t.




I don't think that Astrotec is pushing the limits of the driver. Must likely they're held back by the Bluetooth chipset. 
That's why I'm so excited about the Shanling TWS coming out soon.


----------



## vstolpner

disfiguredlabrynth said:


> I would like to retract my statement about the mifo sounding muffled. They broke in a little bit more and the vocals sound much cleaner and fuller. Plus I got the S10+ and the mifo's sound changed for the better. Separation and soundstage got even better and the treble is more open. Bass has a greater impact but not uncontrolled. Pretty immersive experience for a tws. And you know what? Dolby Atmos isn't half bad when activated.
> Fit is rather good but ear tip dependant. I have small ears and they fit pretty flush and I sleep with them on (fourth of July in America- apparently noone has run out of fireworks).
> 
> One sad note is the case is scuffing a bit. (See pic) I like my aluminum pristine, but I suppose I can live with this.
> ...



Yeah I've got the GS8 and I actually really like the Dolby Atmos setting turned on too.

Go for the red TFZ X1/X1E


----------



## chinmie

Caipirina said:


> Do I need to get the Nillkin Go?
> 
> I recall faintly someone here was very vocal about them ...
> 
> yes, I don't have enough TWE yet



and who might that be? 

i think you still have room in your TWS collection vault 



disfiguredlabrynth said:


> And you know what? Dolby Atmos isn't half bad when activated





vstolpner said:


> Yeah I've got the GS8 and I actually really like the Dolby Atmos setting turned on too.



same here. i usually don't like eq-ing or adding digital effects, but the Dolby Atmos sounds good on most of my iems, so i ended up turning it on all the time


----------



## Boreaquis

I'll post my thoughts on the Nillkin Go when I receive them (shipping may take a few weeks), though I only have the Sabbat X12 and Havit i93 to compare them to.


----------



## disfiguredlabrynth

Will check them out!

Admittedly Dolby Atmos makes the CCA C10 sound so much fun when activated. Slam is unreal at times. I wasn't expecting the s10+ to sound any better than the lg v20 (especially  for tws- but I admit I was wrong. It sounds pretty good if you ask me. LG was good and natural- but tames any iems you hook up to it. Ofcourse with the s10+ the bass in line with Samsung's  ouse sound. My sister has the gs8 I believe and borrowed one of my first iems and hasn't given them back! Can't blame her, they are pretty good and cheap (swing ie800)

Back on topic. The mifo o5 responds well to EQ and I believe you can get any desired sound (besides basshead levels) from them.


----------



## vstolpner

disfiguredlabrynth said:


> Will check them out!
> 
> Admittedly Dolby Atmos makes the CCA C10 sound so much fun when activated. Slam is unreal at times. I wasn't expecting the s10+ to sound any better than the lg v20 (especially  for tws- but I admit I was wrong. It sounds pretty good if you ask me. LG was good and natural- but tames any iems you hook up to it. Ofcourse with the s10+ the bass in line with Samsung's  ouse sound. My sister has the gs8 I believe and borrowed one of my first iems and hasn't given them back! Can't blame her, they are pretty good and cheap (swing ie800)
> 
> Back on topic. The mifo o5 responds well to EQ and I believe you can get any desired sound (besides basshead levels) from them.



So maybe look for balanced armature TWS for your next pair for a different sound? (I believe you have the O5 Standard, right?)


----------



## disfiguredlabrynth (Jul 21, 2019)

Haha don't know how to quote reply on this danged phone yet oops

Yeah I believe so these are the standard. It says so on the box.

It sounds very controlled however. I think I'll go for a bassier dynamic driver because it's better at blocking noise.


----------



## slipstreamrider

Caipirina said:


> You can get both the Tranya and the Mpow TOGETHER for 100$
> 
> if AptX is important for you and you like a nice faux leather case, go with Mpow ... i think the Tranya has a tad more bass over the Mpow ...
> 
> Then again, the Anbes has the most sleek 'not cork sticking out of ear' design and a very pocketable case ...



I use iPhone and have no need for aptx. The faux leather case is nice but having something more pocketable is even better. I do like the low profile of the Anbes...I'd go for it if it was quicker to get a hold of. 

Originally my budget was going to be over $100, but after looking around I realized how quickly this tech is improving with all these options coming out left and right. Didn't want to splurge on something that will soon be dethroned by something $50 cheaper the next month.


----------



## Bartig

chinmie said:


> yes, it's quite the looker, even in the real photos from reviewers in AE. but a couple of things that stopped me from buying it is because of the touch controls (meaning i can turn it on without the case, which is essential in my everyday use), and because the  shallow tip model, whih i figure won't fit regular sized eartips in the case. add to that i read a review that said the sound is disappointing.. thank you for taking the bullet and confirming, because i trust your reviews and that most of your reviews are really similar to what i concluded in my own experience with the said products.
> 
> 
> 
> now this is interesting. I'll be waiting for your conclusion. is this can take standard sized eartips?


The QCY T3 can take standard ear tips, but again with QCY, you won't be able to put them in the charging case anymore.


----------



## speakerz2017

I have always been a firm nonbeliever of wires affecting sonic quality significantly but once I got a decent bluetooth cable from Lear Audio. I did a 180 and am sticking to wired from now on. I mean the Lear bluetooth cable was not cheap but still I expected slightly more than muddled sound


----------



## chinmie

Bartig said:


> The QCY T3 can take standard ear tips, but again with QCY, you won't be able to put them in the charging case anymore.



i use generic wide bores on my T1C that are shallow enough to still be able to charge in the case without problem, and it opens up the treble significantly compared to the stock tips (which have narrower bore nozzle)


----------



## vstolpner

disfiguredlabrynth said:


> Haha don't know how to quote reply on this danged phone yet oops
> 
> Yeah I believe so these are the standard. It says so on the box.
> 
> It sounds very controlled however. I think I'll go for a bassier dynamic driver because it's better at blocking noise.



If you want good noise isolation then go for Anbes 359


----------



## actorlife

Now these are cool looking. Highlights in Blue. Guess how much?






Style: In-Ear
Communication: Wireless
Connectors: None
Wireless Type: Bluetooth
Vocalism Principle: Dynamic
Control Button: Yes
Volume Control: *Yes*
Active Noise-Cancellation: Yes
Function: For Internet Bar
Function: Monitor Headphone
Function: for Video Game
Function: Common Headphone
Function: For Mobile Phone
Function: For iPod
Function: HiFi Headphone
Function: Sport
Plug Type: Wireless
Sensitivity: *110±4dB*
Frequency Response Range: 100-10000Hz
Line Length: None
Resistance: 32Ω
Waterproof: Yes
Model Number: Z6
Support Memory Card: No
Support APP: No
Is wireless: Yes
With Microphone: Yes
Codecs: *Apt-X HD*
Brand Name: QCR
Name: Z6 TWS Wireless Bluetooth 5.0 Earphones
Charging box battery specification: *3000 mAh*
Bluetooth: V5.0+
Earbuds waterproof level: *IPX7* (shower,Snorkeling,Rain, sweat)
earphone battery capacity: 60mAh
earphones play time: *7-9Hours*
Earbus standby: 120H
Compatibility: for iOS Android Smart Phone Smart tablet
Key: Touch


----------



## clerkpalmer

actorlife said:


> Now these are cool looking. Highlights in Blue. Guess how much?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



You have a link?


----------



## vstolpner

Hi Guys,

Published my Tiso i4 review - appreciate your thoughts!


----------



## vstolpner (Jul 21, 2019)

actorlife said:


> Now these are cool looking. Highlights in Blue. Guess how much?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I thoguht I saw these for $40 or so?

I posted similar ones before - wasn't clear whether the "double driver" was an actual function or just pretty looking circuit board.

Anyone willing to get these?


----------



## actorlife

vstolpner said:


> I thoguht I saw these for $40 or so?
> 
> I posted similar ones before - wasn't clear whether the "double driver" was an actual function or just pretty looking circuit board.
> 
> Anyone willing to get these?


Yep you are correct sir. First time I see these clear Wireless. I think KZ is the only pair I have that has a bit of see through. I think it's one driver. I think those driver are just for show or maybe not. Slater might chime in.




https://www.aliexpress.com/item/330...id=195amp-LCWGoRkYe8ac9MOYls3xsA1563719866286


----------



## actorlife (Jul 21, 2019)

vstolpner said:


> Hi Guys,
> 
> Published my Tiso i4 review - appreciate your thoughts!


I'm throwing those on my want list in the future. Thanks for the review.


----------



## hifi80sman (Jul 21, 2019)

vstolpner said:


> Hi Guys,
> 
> Published my Tiso i4
> 
> ...


Pretty sure, if that's they way they actually look, it's just design, not function (pointed the wrong way, seems to be mounted on something gold, at the rear of the buds).

The frequency response doesn't look too good and my guess, because I've seen it tons of times before with Chi-Fi, is that they mean aptX, which is "HD", and not actually "aptX HD".


----------



## tsoltan

Do you have a link for real anbes 359 on aliexpress?


----------



## actorlife

Bartig, Is this the box you got with the Anbes? If it is they are $22 on amazon:


----------



## vstolpner

actorlife said:


> I'm throwing those on my want list in the future. Thanks for the review.



Thanks!
I'm thinking to check out something else from Tiso... Maybe i5 or ix.... 
Anyone else interested in those?


----------



## vstolpner

tsoltan said:


> Do you have a link for real anbes 359 on aliexpress?


I don't think anyone has been able to verify real Anbes on AliExpress. Best suggestion has been to message seller and ask for photo of the box.


----------



## Caipirina

actorlife said:


> Now these are cool looking. Highlights in Blue. Guess how much?



Saw them for 32.78 about a month ago .. did I win anything?


----------



## actorlife

Caipirina said:


> Saw them for 32.78 about a month ago .. did I win anything?



Did you order Dem? I guess I missed that post. You win a


----------



## Bartig (Jul 21, 2019)

actorlife said:


> Bartig, Is this the box you got with the Anbes? If it is they are $22 on amazon:


No, I got a little square white box without any branding.

On another note, for those of you who are interested: here's my review for the Tranya T1-Pro.

Holy crap, review 25 already. Insane.


----------



## actorlife (Jul 21, 2019)

Bartig said:


> No, I got a little square white box without any branding.
> 
> On another note, for those of you who are interested: here's my review for the Tranya T1-Pro.
> 
> Holy crap, review 25 already. Insane.


Cool I found them on ebay for cheap and will keep an eye on them, well you know why. 

Reviews looks good there is a section where you compared the proT1 to the proT1. I think you meant T3 vs proT1 I could be wrong. 
This section:

Next to a more behaving bass, the T1-Pro places vocals and upper mids more forward, making them the centre of the music. Highs extend further than on the T1-Pro, making the sound brighter and delivering more clarity in male and female vocals.
-
Dang 25 already? You need to ask companies to send you their products and get a youtube channel going.


----------



## MrBiN

vstolpner said:


> Hi Guys,
> 
> Published my Tiso i4 review - appreciate your thoughts!


Thanks for your review,


vstolpner said:


> Thanks!
> I'm thinking to check out something else from Tiso... Maybe i5 or ix....
> Anyone else interested in those?


I suggested Tiso i5


----------



## Bartig

actorlife said:


> Cool I found them on ebay for cheap and will keep an eye on them, well you know why.
> 
> Reviews looks good there is a section where you compared the proT1 to the proT1. I think you meant T3 vs proT1 I could be wrong.
> This section:
> ...


Oh thanks, will change that. And no, I've decided for this site instead of a YouTube channel. I have no fun in editing.  Thanks!


----------



## Caipirina (Jul 21, 2019)

actorlife said:


> Did you order Dem? I guess I missed that post. You win a


Nope, did not order them ... nothing really convinced me and no one had anything to say about them

All I am waiting for now are those Anbes for 10$

And maybe I still find something on amazon ... 

Like these guys maybe ... but .. they are mixing up ipx5 / 7 freely .. and one place it says BT 4.2 but in the headline it is 5 ... hmm



or these? 

 

I keep scouring amazon.de in hopes I find some rebranded Nillkin Go ... or Alterola IE 600

or anything fancy new-ish


----------



## actorlife (Jul 21, 2019)

I bookmarked them both(anbes $10/QCR hopefully price goes back down) and if I get good news I'll order them next week or lastly in Sept-Oct. You still looking for the alterola? I just tried Ali and they don't have them. I'm sure your Tranya or Mpow has the same sound sig. This hobby is getting out of hand, but fun for our boredom.


----------



## actorlife (Jul 21, 2019)

Bartig said:


> Oh thanks, will change that. And no, I've decided for this site instead of a YouTube channel. I have no fun in editing.  Thanks!


Yeah I bet editing is cumbersome. Anxiously waiting for the $10 Anbes review.⏳


----------



## Bartig (Jul 21, 2019)

Let's set the expectations straight: the 10 dollar Anbes are NOWHERE near audiophile territory. They are extremely bass heavy. However, they add so much detail and stage on top of the bass and mid bass bleed, that with the right (but very finicky) fit, they're 100% guilty pleasure material for me.

And for many non-audiophiles too, I suppose.

Much like the Oneodio Elysium Bluetooth headphone which I love too. Nothing for analytical, serious listening sessions... In need of an EQ to get the most out of it. Yet they are amazing party starters with a massive, uplifting bass. Every non-audiophile friend I recommend them to, totally love them. 

The Anbes XG-13 is the tws equivalent.


----------



## actorlife (Jul 21, 2019)

Bartig said:


> Let's set the expectations straight: the 10 dollar Anbes are NOWHERE near audiophile territory. They are extremely bass heavy. However, they add so much detail and stage on top of the bass and mid bass bleed, that with the right (but very finicky) fit, they're 100% guilty pleasure material for me.
> 
> And for many non-audiophiles too, I suppose.
> 
> ...


OH I knew what you meant when you said they were not bad for 10 bucks. I mean those Oneodio Elysium went up in price to 25 and over 300 good reviews on Ali. Sometimes you find a diamond in the rough. Like those KZ products I was wild about 2 years ago.


----------



## jant71

Anyone try these... https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07SFV5PPB/ref=sspa_dk_detail_2?psc=1&pd_rd_i=B07SFV5PPB
Don't look half bad and have volume control as well.


----------



## vstolpner

jant71 said:


> Anyone try these... https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07SFV5PPB/ref=sspa_dk_detail_2?psc=1&pd_rd_i=B07SFV5PPB
> Don't look half bad and have volume control as well.



I've been eyeing a pair in that form factor.... Really like how compact the case looks


----------



## FYLegend

vstolpner said:


> I don't think anyone has been able to verify real Anbes on AliExpress. Best suggestion has been to message seller and ask for photo of the box.


"We will shoot you later" and never got an update after that.

Has anyone here done a teardown of Anbes 359? Is one of the ports on the shell a bass port or are both microphones?


----------



## HiFlight

I just received my GRDE X10 and so far it is doing a fine job.  Sound is well balanced tonally, pairing has been flawless and connection to my source rock solid.  Packaging was well done with clear instructions, including a wallet sized quick reference card.  I like the digital readout of remaining percent of power in the charging case.  All inputs seem to be via capacitive touch rather than pushing a button.  

Fit and seal for me is excellent using tips from my own collection which do fit into the charger case.  The necks and lip are larger than the very small ones on my Outlier Air and Jabra 16t, both of which require tip with tiny necks.
Overall,  I believe these perform well above their modest cost and I am very pleased with my purchase.


----------



## chinmie

Caipirina said:


> Nope, did not order them ... nothing really convinced me and no one had anything to say about them
> 
> All I am waiting for now are those Anbes for 10$
> 
> ...



here's another one: Syllable SD16. similar form factor but with touch controls, but no volume controls like the Go


 

https://m.aliexpress.com/item/33030963763.html


----------



## vstolpner

FYLegend said:


> "We will shoot you later" and never got an update after that.
> 
> Has anyone here done a teardown of Anbes 359? Is one of the ports on the shell a bass port or are both microphones?



Actually wouldn't mind to see what's inside those earpieces and case as well... Inner tinkerer in me wants to know... Lol


----------



## Caipirina

Slightly off topic maybe, but i am curious what you guys say. I had to open a dispute on one TWS because it would not connect at all. Now the seller is making this IMHO unreasonable ‘demand’ / suggestion



this would create about 1-2h of extra work ‘deleting’ and then re-pairing everything... with no guarantee this fixes the issue.

I have sometimes the feeling they come up with tasks to keep you busy or forget about the dispute. What if they ask ‘re-install the OS on your phone’ ...


----------



## vstolpner

Caipirina said:


> Slightly off topic maybe, but i am curious what you guys say. I had to open a dispute on one TWS because it would not connect at all. Now the seller is making this IMHO unreasonable ‘demand’ / suggestion
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Totally agree. While I give the benefit of the doubt, that they give these suggestions because that one time in that one specific case it helped... It certainly feels like it's too create work and make you forget about it...

Try pairing it with different phones... If it doesn't work then just say nothing worked... If seller is still unreasonable, let AE step in and resolve dispute


----------



## snip3r77

Stupid question 
How much is anbes 359
During the recent Ali sales?


----------



## vstolpner

snip3r77 said:


> Stupid question
> How much is anbes 359
> During the recent Ali sales?



Hard to say because on Ali there isn't really a confirmed true Anbes 359... Most of them are rebrands with different functionality and sound quality.

Your best bet is Kissral R18 off of Amazon. If you're looking for US delivery I have an Amazon link in my review (see signature)


----------



## FYLegend

Hmm, I thought there was some indication Anbes 359 would be restocked July 27 on Amazon.com? I don't see that restock date any longer... I wonder if Anbes is going out of business soon lol

Has anyone tried DFOI JS19? They look like a 359-type shell but light up green around the rim, and have a different charging case that claims 24h. The specs also seem different and I can't tell if it uses Type C or MicroUSB.

I'll probably post fuller impressions of Earfun Free in a few days, but so far I really enjoy them, although I do have a few gripes. I've seen many comments about reliability issues including them not charging.
- Asyncrhonous charging lights that stop blinking when the buds are fully charged.
- Button controls - this isn't so much a problem on its own but it induces the driver flex/pressure and sometimes I will have to re-insert them.
- Driver flex/pressure - When I tilt my head to the left, the left driver starts to sound muffled - doesn't happen on the right side but I do get intermittent pressure/driver flex there as well. There's this odd "sucking", muffled sound when there is too much pressure on the driver.  The Coolhere UFO had bad driver flex that caused distorted sound, but it would only be temporary when pushing the buttons.

Aukey T10 is finally listed on Amazon.ca for 130$. I'm wondering how people find them sound-wise?
https://www.amazon.ca/AUKEY-Wireles...aukey+t10&qid=1563742012&s=electronics&sr=1-2


----------



## BigZ12 (Jul 22, 2019)

Got my Lypertek Tevis for an hour ago. Just unpacked and connected them.
These got almost everything. AptX, AAC, BT5.0, 10 hours battery, ipx7, usb-c, volume control, siri/google assistant etc.. Even came with a free gift, a set of Flexifit foam tips.

First impressions are impressive.
Very detailed and clear sounding (without being harsh at all), balanced as announced but with enough bass (not for bassheads maybe?). EDIT: With the right eartips, I can recommend it to bassheads too  With the Spinfit CP-100, Symbio by Mandarines and Comply T-200 there are plenty bass!
Soundstage and stereo imaging sounds great for a TWS.

Good fit (sticks out longer than the Anbes (as every TWS), but on par with the QCY T2C).
Connectivity is as great as other BT5.0 TWS. Walking around all corners of my apartment without dropouts when my iPhone X is laying in the living room.

$89.90 - free shipping (sent Thursday from Hong Kong, got them here in Oslo today - DHL Express)

Can post an update when they have been used some hours, if it's interesting.
Think these are a keeper!

Edit 2: Just found this review: http://www.hifiheadphones.co.uk/reviews/lypertek-tevi-true-wireless-earphone-review/

*FEATURES:*
Clean, Balanced, Good Bass and Wide Sound Stage Sound Signature.
Qualcomm Bluetooth 5.0 for stable connection.
Super Light and Comfortable Wearing Experience.
IPX7 waterproof.

*SPECIFICATION:*
Driver: High Performance 6mm Graphene Driver
Frequency Response: 20 - 20kHz
Microphone: cVc 8.0 Noise Cancelling, Echo Cancellation, Noise Suppression
Bluetooth Specification: Bluetooth 5.0
Bluetooth Codec: Qualcomm aptX, AAC, SBC
Play Time (Max): Max 10 hours* And Max. 70 hours with Charging Case (*Volume 50% based on SBC)
Waterproof Level: IPX7
Features: Music & Volume Control, Phone Call & Voice Assistant Calls.

*PACKAGE INCLUDES:*
TEVI Truly Wireless Earphone - 1pair
Charging Case - 1pc
S, M, L Silicone Tips - 1pair per size
Flexfit Foam Tips (M size) -1pair
USB Type-C cable -1pc
Quick Start Manual - 1pc
*FLEXFIT FOAM TIPS "gift"* - S, M, L - 1pair per size


----------



## DigDub

FYLegend said:


> Hmm, I thought there was some indication Anbes 359 would be restocked July 27 on Amazon.com? I don't see that restock date any longer... I wonder if Anbes is going out of business soon lol
> 
> Has anyone tried DFOI JS19? They look like a 359-type shell but light up green around the rim, and have a different charging case that claims 24h. The specs also seem different and I can't tell if it uses Type C or MicroUSB.
> 
> ...


I have the Aukey t10. The highs aren't very good, treble details are lacking.


----------



## Bartig

BigZ12 said:


> Got my Lypertek Tevis for an hour ago. Just unpacked and connected them.
> These got almost everything. AptX, AAC, BT5.0, 10 hours battery, ipx7, usb-c, volume control, siri/google assistant etc.. Even came with a free gift, a set of Flexifit foam tips.
> 
> First impressions are impressive.
> ...


Your description and the design of the case and earpieces make it quite clear for me: this is another design of the excellent Mpow T5!


----------



## Soreniglio (Jul 22, 2019)

I received my faux "Anbes 359".

First things first:

No Anbes on Bluetooth device, but "Air".
No blue light, it's white.
No volume control.
I can't move to the previous track with the controls.
If I press the right earphone too hard it switches off instead of going to the next track.


Sound-wise:

HUGE soundstage, the bass is punchy but seems controlled to me, mids are okay, highs too.

I am a bit mad because of the USELESS controls.

I'll ask the seller for a partial refund.


I also received the QCY on the same day, I'll try them tomorrow.


----------



## TontonRay (Jul 22, 2019)

Soreniglio said:


> I received my faux "Anbes 359".
> 
> First things first:
> 
> ...


Hi, from your description I think I have the same ones as yours. Mine says Letscom on the manual. But on mine you can actually control the volume with double clicks (R is +, L is -).
The earphones have their separate volume from the phone's so try again by double clicking a few times as the change in volume when you press the buttons is quite subtle. 
I really like the sound on them and my only gripe is that I can't reach more than 3 hours playing on one charge.


----------



## Soreniglio

TontonRay said:


> Hi, from your description I think I have the same ones as yours. Mine says Letscom on the manual. But on mine you can actually control the volume with double clicks (R is +, L is -).
> The earphones have their separate volume from the phone's so try again by double clicking a few times as the change in volume when you press the buttons is quite subtle.
> I really like the sound on them and my only gripe is that I can't reach more than 3 hours playing on one charge.




They're not the same, sadly. 

No brand on the user manual, with double tap on the Right Google assistant shows up...


----------



## TontonRay

Soreniglio said:


> They're not the same, sadly.
> 
> No brand on the user manual, with double tap on the Right Google assistant shows up...


Bummer..


----------



## Soreniglio

TontonRay said:


> Bummer..



For what I'm listening to so far, they're quite good sound-wise.

I'll try to compare them to the QCY.

I might decide to give them to my mom, as I previously said.


----------



## BigZ12

Bartig said:


> Your description and the design of the case and earpieces make it quite clear for me: this is another design of the excellent Mpow T5!


It certainly looks that way. Especially the case looks very alike. (except the Sennheiser Momentum type fabric wrapping) 
But some of the specs are different? Battery life for instance? 
Anyway, I paid $89.90... that's $40 more than the Mpow on Aliexpress  That doesn't feel so good. 
Luckily they valued the package $20, so I didn't have to pay tax. (In Norway it's 25% tax, and about $15 in toll handling for everything over about $40)
And the shipping time vs AliExpress was amazing. Thursday --> Monday from Hong Kong to Oslo with DHL Express. Worth a little bit that too?

PS: True story, they've been in my ears for 5,5 hours now. Sounding better and better. Using the Spinfit C-100 medium size. No dropouts and the best part? My iPhone X show 39% battery on the Tevis after 5,5 hours with about 60% volume!


----------



## snip3r77

Soreniglio said:


> I received my faux "Anbes 359".
> 
> First things first:
> 
> ...



which seller is it?


----------



## Soreniglio

snip3r77 said:


> which seller is it?



Anbes Audiocart Store, but the owner is the same of Anbes Official Store.


----------



## snip3r77

Soreniglio said:


> Anbes Audiocart Store, but the owner is the same of Anbes Official Store.



So the item is correct but the controls are faulty?


----------



## vstolpner

Just a heads up, MPOW T5 on Amazon.com going on Lightning sale later today

As are the Funcl's....


----------



## Soreniglio

snip3r77 said:


> So the item is correct but the controls are faulty?



The item is not Anbes, it's offbrand, the case has different lights, the controls are faulty.


----------



## TontonRay

Soreniglio said:


> Anbes Audiocart Store, but the owner is the same of Anbes Official Store.


I got mine from ANBES 3C Accessories Store. And to be fair, they placed a note in the product's description saying that it's without the Anbes logo but of the same high quality.


----------



## david8613

vstolpner said:


> Just a heads up, MPOW T5 on Amazon.com going on Lightning sale later today
> 
> As are the Funcl's....



when where I just checked I don't see? link???


----------



## albau

TontonRay said:


> I got mine from ANBES 3C Accessories Store. And to be fair, they placed a note in the product's description saying that it's without the Anbes logo but of the same high quality.


Judging by button covers falling off on my three month old original Anbes 359 and by other problems I wouldn't call it "high quality".  Even for $30 I paid on Amazon. Sound is another story, but then let's not pretend it's MW07 "high quality". That said still amazing and to me overall  still better proposition than even MPOW T5, not speaking of Jabra 65t.


----------



## TontonRay

albau said:


> Judging by button covers falling off on my three month old original Anbes 359 and by other problems I wouldn't call it "high quality".  Even for $30 I paid on Amazon. Sound is another story, but then let's not pretend it's MW07 "high quality". That said still amazing and to me overall  still better proposition than even MPOW T5, not speaking of Jabra 65t.


I hear ya. Hope mine will last a bit longer.
Waiting for the Mpow T5 to arrive so I can compare them.


----------



## Boreaquis

albau said:


> Judging by button covers falling off on my three month old original Anbes 359 and by other problems I wouldn't call it "high quality".  Even for $30 I paid on Amazon. Sound is another story, but then let's not pretend it's MW07 "high quality". That said still amazing and to me overall  still better proposition than even MPOW T5, not speaking of Jabra 65t.



That's the main reason I didn't get one (well, that and the all the off-brand nonsense on AliExpress). My Sabbat X12 and Havit i93 still look flawless after 8 months, which is what you'd expect even for cheap products.

Got my fingers crossed for the Nillkin Go.


----------



## vstolpner

david8613 said:


> when where I just checked I don't see? link???



Here you go.

Edit: not sure if file added properly.... Let me how if you can't see it


----------



## srinivasvignesh

vstolpner said:


> Here you go.
> 
> Edit: not sure if file added properly.... Let me how if you can't see it


No link...


----------



## david8613

Cant see


----------



## vstolpner

srinivasvignesh said:


> No link...





david8613 said:


> Cant see



Ok, can't seem to attach the screenshot from my phone...

Funcl AI: on now
https://amzn.to/2Ob4HJT

Funcl W1: in an hour and 20 (10:45am PST)
https://amzn.to/2K2998a

MPOW T5: in 4.5 hours (2:00pm PST)
https://amzn.to/2Stt4Rm

Anbes (2019 model) 358: in 8.5 hours (5:55pm PST)
https://amzn.to/2Lzpepd


----------



## srinivasvignesh

What is the price for the mpow t5?


----------



## vstolpner

Also, Tranya T3 are on coupon right now for $39.99 after coupon.
https://amzn.to/2SwgrVu



srinivasvignesh said:


> What is the price for the mpow t5?


RIght now it's $45.99 - not sure what the lightning deal price is going to be.


----------



## BigZ12 (Jul 22, 2019)

vstolpner said:


> Also, Tranya T3 are on coupon right now for $39.99 after coupon.
> https://amzn.to/2SwgrVu
> 
> 
> RIght now it's $45.99 - not sure what the lightning deal price is going to be.


So annoying for a Norwegian... neither Tranya, Mpow or Kissral are possible to order to Norway 
Guess I just have to be happy with my Lypertek Tevis for $89,90 incl shipping and tax/toll... and I really am. They are the best I've had! (And I have/have had Senn MTW, B&O E8 2,0, Anbes 359, QCY T2C, Tiso i4, Syllable s101...)


----------



## hifi80sman

FYLegend said:


> Aukey T10 is finally listed on Amazon.ca for 130$. I'm wondering how people find them sound-wise?
> https://www.amazon.ca/AUKEY-Wireles...aukey+t10&qid=1563742012&s=electronics&sr=1-2


They sound nice.  Clean, clear, balanced.  If you want deep bass, these are not for you.  As someone that is a bit treble sensitive, I think they are slightly, just slightly on the brighter side (I prefer a smoother sound signature).  What I mean, is they clearly sound like they have that typical 10k spike, but may have a little dip in low-mid treble (4k-6k), which may be why @DigDub doesn't think the highs are very good.  I EQ the bass up, give it a little mid-treble push, and tame high-treble.  The EQ adjustments are not wild, just adding a bit or taking the "edge off", nothing radical.

Overall, they are solid and remind me a lot of the Samsung Gear IconX (2018) and Galaxy Buds.  Quality case, nicely built.


----------



## actorlife (Jul 22, 2019)

vstolpner said:


> Also, Tranya T3 are on coupon right now for $39.99 after coupon.
> https://amzn.to/2SwgrVu
> 
> 
> RIght now it's _*$45.99 - not*_ sure what the lightning deal price is going to be.


Damn damn damn I bet 35 nope don't do it actorlife...those Funcl W1 worth it if $25-35. Great treble clarity and good bass.


----------



## actorlife (Jul 22, 2019)

BigZ12 said:


> Got my Lypertek Tevis for an hour ago. Just unpacked and connected them.
> These got almost everything. AptX, AAC, BT5.0, 10 hours battery, ipx7, usb-c, volume control, siri/google assistant etc.. Even came with a free gift, a set of Flexifit foam tips.
> 
> First impressions are impressive.
> ...


Congrats dude! Keep us updated on SQ and battery life I think those are the ones I want to order + 3 three different type of pairs. Damn budget I hate being restricted. Bah.


----------



## hifi80sman

FYI, the black version has been $79.99 with a 20% off coupon for a while now.  $10 more, but I'd rather have black vs. the white, lest I'd be mistaken for wearing AirPods!   
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07Q9JDN15/


----------



## actorlife (Jul 22, 2019)

hifi80sman said:


> FYI, the black version has been $79.99 with a 20% off coupon for a while now.  $10 more, but I'd rather have black vs. the white, lest I'd be mistaken for wearing AirPods!
> https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07Q9JDN15/


Get the Funcl W1 great SQ although no volume control. Still worth it $25-35 I don't like those stick Earbuds never did. Deal is on Whoa $29 bucks grab them!


----------



## vstolpner

vstolpner said:


> Ok, can't seem to attach the screenshot from my phone...
> 
> Funcl AI: on now
> https://amzn.to/2Ob4HJT
> ...





actorlife said:


> Get the Funcl W1 great SQ although no volume control. Still worth it $25-35 I don't like those stick Earbuds never did.



Funcl W1 on for $29.99 - Prime members can buy now, us non-Primers have to wait another 25 minutes


----------



## clerkpalmer

For those who were on the fence before, I did get a free pair of new tips from Advanced Sound which are not the shallow type original delivered.  Still only come in one size but they are a nice improvement for those who couldn't get a seal with the original bragi style tips they shipped.  While I have not gone down the path of the chi-fi options, I still think the advanced is a pretty compelling option at the price point.  They have a very musical sound to them.  Definitely a punchy "gym" sound (i.e. v shaped) but I find myself reaching for them over my 65T on most occasions.


----------



## actorlife

vstolpner said:


> Funcl W1 on for $29.99 - Prime members can buy now, us non-Primers have to wait another 25 minutes


Yep just saw it jump on it. Great buds.


----------



## vstolpner

actorlife said:


> Yep just saw it jump on it. Great buds.


I'm gonna save up for something special... **might** get the MPOW T5's... depending on price...
you should do it


----------



## d3myz (Jul 22, 2019)

Funcl W1 lightning deal on amazon for $29.99   https://www.amazon.com/Funcl-W1-Blu..._=pe_8580510_422509560_grep_deals_digest_pe_t

Edit: sorry for the re-post. btw how do i delete a post? i've looked everywhere?


----------



## vstolpner

vstolpner said:


> Funcl W1 on for $29.99 - Prime members can buy now, us non-Primers have to wait another 25 minutes





d3myz said:


> Funcl F1 lightning deal on amazon for $29.99   https://www.amazon.com/Funcl-W1-Blu..._=pe_8580510_422509560_grep_deals_digest_pe_t



Already posted


----------



## Tavleen Suri

have the soundsport free and treblab x5...like them both...however need something that goes louder....keep seeing ppl mention tranya, sabbat, anbes, mifo on the forum...
so if anyone cud advice me which earbuds go real loud plz let me know...price and sound quality are not the priority....just loudness! ....need for the gym

thnx for any and all help


----------



## actorlife (Jul 22, 2019)

vstolpner said:


> I'm gonna save up for something special... **might** get the MPOW T5's... depending on price...
> you should do it


Mpow T5 is the other pair I want damn damn damn. Watch them be only $30. Somebody in the US send them to me so I can try them out and I'll return them back.


----------



## actorlife

Tavleen Suri said:


> have the soundsport free and treblab x5...like them both...however need something that goes louder....keep seeing ppl mention tranya, sabbat, anbes, mifo on the forum...
> so if anyone cud advice me which earbuds go real loud plz let me know...price and sound quality are not the priority....just loudness! ....need for the gym
> 
> thnx for any and all help


Are you in the US? Stay away from Sabbat if you like sparkly highs. I'd recommend Anbes 359 or Kissral R18 , Mifo, Mpow, Tranya, etc


----------



## vstolpner

Tavleen Suri said:


> have the soundsport free and treblab x5...like them both...however need something that goes louder....keep seeing ppl mention tranya, sabbat, anbes, mifo on the forum...
> so if anyone cud advice me which earbuds go real loud plz let me know...price and sound quality are not the priority....just loudness! ....need for the gym
> 
> thnx for any and all help



The mifo O5 are great, but not the loudest (professional version anyway). Tranya T3 are really loud. Actually try Tiso i4 (see my signature) - those are even louder


----------



## d3myz

actorlife said:


> Yep just saw it jump on it. Great buds.


I'm very excited about these, should be here tomorrow!


----------



## d3myz

vstolpner said:


> Just a heads up, MPOW T5 on Amazon.com going on Lightning sale later today
> 
> As are the Funcl's....


Do you know what time the T5's are going on sale?


----------



## Tavleen Suri

actorlife said:


> Are you in the US? Stay away from Sabbat if you like sparkly highs. I'd recommend Anbes 359 or Kissral R18 , Mifo, Mpow, Tranya, etc


atm visiting my parents abroad....anyways cud you like plz shorten your recommended list to maybe 2 names...will order asap...whichever u think are the two loudest ones....tnx


----------



## hifi80sman

Tavleen Suri said:


> have the soundsport free and treblab x5...like them both...however need something that goes louder....keep seeing ppl mention tranya, sabbat, anbes, mifo on the forum...
> so if anyone cud advice me which earbuds go real loud plz let me know...price and sound quality are not the priority....just loudness! ....need for the gym
> 
> thnx for any and all help


The MPOW T5 get REALLY LOUD!


----------



## Tavleen Suri

hifi80sman said:


> The MPOW T5 get REALLY LOUD!


so tiso i4 and mpow t5 it is...i ll look them up...thnx...cheers


----------



## d3myz

vstolpner said:


> Ok, can't seem to attach the screenshot from my phone...
> 
> Funcl AI: on now
> https://amzn.to/2Ob4HJT
> ...



And. please disregard my previous comment asking about timeframes. 


vstolpner said:


> Already posted



I saw that, sorry, i'm an idiot. got too excited.


----------



## actorlife (Jul 22, 2019)

Tavleen Suri said:


> atm visiting my parents abroad....anyways cud you like plz shorten your recommended list to maybe 2 names...will order asap...whichever u think are the two loudest ones....tnx


Anbes/Kissral/MPOW can go loud. You can't go wrong with any of them and be careful with playing too loud you'll regret it later.


----------



## d3myz

@hifi80sman, @vstolpner, @actorlife, sorry for being thick, but I asked about burning in buds before and one of you said you use a burn-in playlist in spotify and then run some sweeps. How does everyone else burn in their buds? Also, is it a specific playlist? are you running sweeps from audiocheck.net etc?


----------



## actorlife

Must not spend. Must not spend. Get off internet now A.L.


----------



## d3myz

Tavleen Suri said:


> so tiso i4 and mpow t5 it is...i ll look them up...thnx...cheers


Both great buds!


----------



## mikp

d3myz said:


> @hifi80sman, @vstolpner, @actorlife, sorry for being thick, but I asked about burning in buds before and one of you said you use a burn-in playlist in spotify and then run some sweeps. How does everyone else burn in their buds? Also, is it a specific playlist? are you running sweeps from audiocheck.net etc?



5 min in preheated oven at 100°C


----------



## actorlife (Jul 22, 2019)

d3myz said:


> @hifi80sman, @vstolpner, @actorlife, sorry for being thick, but I asked about burning in buds before and one of you said you use a burn-in playlist in spotify and then run some sweeps. How does everyone else burn in their buds? Also, is it a specific playlist? are you running sweeps from audiocheck.net etc?


Jazz/Rock flac files music on my Cayin N3 one day at listening vol and Pink noise one day and don't play too loud just enough. Sometimes I'll rotate for a week on both. It's funny never burn-in my TWS cause they better have treble or back you go bitch.


----------



## d3myz (Jul 22, 2019)

Wanted to mention, I picked up the Anker Soundcore Liberty Neo TWS', I tried using them a couple different times but I couldn't keep them in for more than a couple min. each time.  Sound was a touch above average for the price point, V-shape, high highs, decent bass, but the earbud stems are LOOOOOOONG! Unless you have some Deep ear canals I wouldn't recommend them. The build quality is excellent, some of the best I've seen. It's too bad, I really wanted to like them but ergonomics just wouldn't work with my anatomy.


----------



## vstolpner (Jul 22, 2019)

d3myz said:


> @hifi80sman, @vstolpner, @actorlife, sorry for being thick, but I asked about burning in buds before and one of you said you use a burn-in playlist in spotify and then run some sweeps. How does everyone else burn in their buds? Also, is it a specific playlist? are you running sweeps from audiocheck.net etc?



I use a Spotify playlist called "Headphone Burn In" with a smiley face for cover art. Here's the link to it

https://open.spotify.com/playlist/1lF6ZfObwunPKi0migPywt?si=RxOKWJs6Si2gbUj2bgyakw

Edit: forgot to mention volume - when burning in I go for a notch or two above the loudest I would listen to it, not necessarily at full volume.


----------



## vstolpner

mikp said:


> 5 min in preheated oven at 100°C



If you go to 175-180 degrees the earphones start to caramelize and make the music sound sweet as sugar.


----------



## vstolpner

actorlife said:


> Must not spend. Must not spend. Get off internet now A.L.



**Enablers anonymous - unite!!**


----------



## actorlife

3hrs till mpow... Nope Stop Look at the cute girl walking down the street. Good distraction.


----------



## d3myz

vstolpner said:


> I use a Spotify playlist called "Headphone Burn In" with a smiley face for cover art. Here's the link to it
> 
> https://open.spotify.com/playlist/1lF6ZfObwunPKi0migPywt?si=RxOKWJs6Si2gbUj2bgyakw
> 
> Edit: forgot to mention volume - when burning in I go for a notch or two above the loudest I would listen to it, not necessarily at full volume.


Awesome! Thank You! So, do you just leave them on until they die, charge and repeat etc. I did run some sweeps on the T5's I was really impressed. It never ceases to amaze me how some songs/albums have such terrible production while others are just phenomenal.


----------



## hifi80sman (Jul 22, 2019)

d3myz said:


> @hifi80sman, @vstolpner, @actorlife, sorry for being thick, but I asked about burning in buds before and one of you said you use a burn-in playlist in spotify and then run some sweeps. How does everyone else burn in their buds? Also, is it a specific playlist? are you running sweeps from audiocheck.net etc?


I don't normally burn in unless there is a characteristic I'm not liking.  If that's the case, I'll download some frequency sweeps on YouTube and loop them for 24 hours (total playing time, recharge in between) at 80-100% volume (depending on the issue).  If there is an imbalance, I may only run the burn-in on one 'bud in an effort to balance them out.  I will say, however, rarely does this seem to change any annoying characteristic, so my return rate is probably about 90%.


----------



## vstolpner

d3myz said:


> Awesome! Thank You! So, do you just leave them on until they die, charge and repeat etc. I did run some sweeps on the T5's I was really impressed. It never ceases to amaze me how some songs/albums have such terrible production while others are just phenomenal.



I usually just run it a few hours at a time here and there as I can, between actual use


----------



## actorlife

Time for a Tally guys. I own 6 TWS(See my sig) so far and you all??? Also any plans to add more and if yes what model. Go.


----------



## Boreaquis

BigZ12 said:


> So annoying for a Norwegian... neither Tranya, Mpow or Kissral are possible to order to Norway
> Guess I just have to be happy with my Lypertek Tevis for $89,90 incl shipping and tax/toll... and I really am. They are the best I've had! (And I have/have had Senn MTW, B&O E8 2,0, Anbes 359, QCY T2C, Tiso i4, Syllable s101...)



Yeah, it kind of sucks that we don't have a "local" Amazon. I just stick to AliExpress for importing chi-fi to Norway.


----------



## mikp

Boreaquis said:


> Yeah, it kind of sucks that we don't have a "local" Amazon. I just stick to AliExpress for importing chi-fi to Norway.



aliexpress and epacket is the best option so far, until the new import laws are coming.


----------



## Thesonofkrypton

Just received my WF-1000XM3.  These things are seriously good. Glad I have come to the end of my search for wireless earphones (famous last words! lol).


----------



## blomman77

Same with Sweden. Can't order any True wireless from Amazon.
Strange thou,cause regular Bluetooth headsets is no problem ordering.


Boreaquis said:


> Yeah, it kind of sucks that we don't have a "local" Amazon. I just stick to AliExpress for importing chi-fi to Norway.



Don't know why?


----------



## danimoca

Hey guys!

I'm quite new to this TWS world and I've been thinking of buying my first pair.

What do you feel are the most balanced sounding ones, under 50$/50€?

Thanks!


----------



## Bartig

Here's my QCY T3 review. And whoah. It sounds bloody sensational....


 
_... when you get the fit right_


----------



## FYLegend (Jul 22, 2019)

Soreniglio said:


> I received my faux "Anbes 359".
> 
> First things first:
> 
> ...


You mean the volume control just doesn't work? On mine you have to hold ~4 seconds until you hear a FAINT beep (sometimes it doesn't, so check your device's volume level to see if it changes).

I bargained with the seller for a second one at a discounted price, but seeing that you didn't get Coolhere UFO I might get something else again... Don't mind keeping it for the case among other things, but if the second one has the same sound defect I will file a dispute.

I noticed another issue with the Earfun Free. Sometimes after extended use, the channels will desync slightly leading to a slight faux stereo effect. It's very subtle unlike what happens with Astrotec S60, but the midrange loses a bit of forwardness and the bass sounds loose. The only way to reset this is to either re-pair the device or go into developer options and select the codec option (you don't need to change it but I presume only using SBC might fix this).

I need my Beatles in mono, might as well just use one bud then...


----------



## Boreaquis

Bartig said:


> Here's my QCY T3 review. And whoah. It sounds bloody sensational....
> 
> 
> _... when you get the fit right_



Sounds like these were pretty close to stealing the throne, if only it wasn't for the fit/stem design. How would you rank them purely from an audio perspective?


----------



## Bartig

Boreaquis said:


> Sounds like these were pretty close to stealing the throne, if only it wasn't for the fit/stem design. How would you rank them purely from an audio perspective?


Have yet to compare them better with the Mpow T5 but definitely up there with the best. Great instrument placement and stage, sweet bass and detail.


----------



## vstolpner

vstolpner said:


> Ok, can't seem to attach the screenshot from my phone...
> 
> Funcl AI: on now
> https://amzn.to/2Ob4HJT
> ...



So the MPOW's are on for $38.24.... starting in a few minutes for non-Prime and already 10% sold out...

Must keep big picture in mind... must not purchase... just think of Shanlings... or hybrid 1more's.... must not click "buy"....

@actorlife are you going to break? lol


----------



## vstolpner

danimoca said:


> Hey guys!
> 
> I'm quite new to this TWS world and I've been thinking of buying my first pair.
> 
> ...



Judging by your IEM collection, I would suggest TRN BT20... half price of what you're looking for, and then you can use all your favorite IEM's with them.

I would suggest Tranya T3's, but they're a little on the bassy side... Anbes 359 (Kissral R18) are fantastic if you can find them.


----------



## TontonRay

BTW, for those interested, you can get the Funcl W1 for a bit under $29 on Joybuy:
https://www.joybuy.com/652570746.html


----------



## vstolpner (Jul 22, 2019)

actorlife said:


> Time for a Tally guys. I own 6 TWS(See my sig) so far and you all??? Also any plans to add more and if yes what model. Go.



I'm at 3 at the moment:
1. Tranya T3
2. Anbes 359
3. Tiso i4

had to send my mifo's back, so now I'm waIting for a really nice Knowles BA / hybrid set

Edit:
4. TRN BT20 - just realised that I forgot about this... LOL  
Guess I don't use them very much


----------



## actorlife

vstolpner said:


> So the MPOW's are on for $38.24.... starting in a few minutes for non-Prime and already 10% sold out...
> 
> Must keep big picture in mind... must not purchase... just think of Shanlings... or hybrid 1more's.... must not click "buy"....
> 
> @actorlife are you going to break? lol


We just came back at the same time haha. I saw 38(thought  maybe $30-35)and was gonna post. How many hour battery do they have 7/8? Not buying must go back to girl watching. Bahaha.


----------



## jasonb

Someone on Reddit posted this earlier today showing the frequency response with each EQ setting in the Galaxy wear app on the Galaxy Buds.


----------



## actorlife

vstolpner said:


> I'm at 3 at the moment:
> 1. Tranya T3
> 2. Anbes 359
> 3. Tiso i4
> ...


Whoa come on man you gotta have 5 or more to be in our hoarder club. Oh no Mifo gone? Which TWS BA u looking at? I gotta take out my BA IEM out tonight. I miss them. Get the T5 wanna see your review.


----------



## vstolpner

actorlife said:


> Whoa come on man you gotta have 5 or more to be in our hoarder club. Oh no Mifo gone? Which TWS BA u looking at? I gotta take out my BA IEM out tonight. I miss them. Get the T5 wanna see your review.



I'm interested in the Shanling BA IEM's - Knowles BA's and all.... either that or the 1more hybrid TWS that are "coming out soon" (whenever that is)...
I'll see if the T5's are in the budget... maybe I'll put them up for sale after...

Life with a newborn doesn't exactly leave much time to write reviews... still need to do my Tranya T3 review

Edit:
Actually, I keep forgetting about the Edifier TWS... maybe do those instead of the MPOW's? Thoughts?


----------



## falang

My two pair of Anbes 359 arrived from Anbes Audiocart AliExpress store. They are gifts but I tried one out briefly. 

The boxes are not labelled with any names, white light charging colour on the charging puck, named as Air in pairing mode, and can't figure out volume control. Instructions suggest a double tap but that brings up the assistant. 

Brief audio impressions - they sound similar to my OG Anbes 359 which I did not like at first but grew on me over time.


----------



## vstolpner

falang said:


> My two pair of Anbes 359 arrived from Anbes Audiocart AliExpress store. They are gifts but I tried one out briefly.
> 
> The boxes are not labelled with any names, white light charging colour on the charging puck, named as Air in pairing mode, and can't figure out volume control. Instructions suggest a double tap but that brings up the assistant.
> 
> Brief audio impressions - they sound similar to my OG Anbes 359 which I did not like at first but grew on me over time.


Do you mind to post photos and provide links where you got them from?


----------



## FunctionalDoc

Ordred the Mopow T5 on lighting deal .

Anyone know anything about these ? They are coming up on deal in 9 hours .
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07R413QB..._m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_r=BZ8EV8WQ0T73NSR3ZJDX

http://mebuyz.com/proinfo.aspx?id=28


----------



## actorlife

vstolpner said:


> I'm interested in the Shanling BA IEM's - Knowles BA's and all.... either that or the 1more hybrid TWS that are "coming out soon" (whenever that is)...
> I'll see if the T5's are in the budget... maybe I'll put them up for sale after...
> 
> Life with a newborn doesn't exactly leave much time to write reviews... still need to do my Tranya T3 review
> ...


Congrats dad. I'd say try the MPOW and return it if they suck. Or buy both and return them both haha. No volume on Shangling is a turnoff to me. I bet they will sound good though.


----------



## falang (Jul 22, 2019)

vstolpner said:


> Do you mind to post photos and provide links where you got them from?


Anbes 359 Generic Branding Photos. Link to AliExpress.


----------



## vstolpner

actorlife said:


> Congrats dad. I'd say try the MPOW and return it if they suck. Or buy both and return them both haha. No volume on Shangling is a turnoff to me. I bet they will sound good though.



Well Edifier are from AliExpress, so no returns there.... But I'll think about it


----------



## hifi80sman

FunctionalDoc said:


> Ordred the Mopow T5 on lighting deal .
> 
> Anyone know anything about these ? They are coming up on deal in 9 hours .
> https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07R413QB..._m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_r=BZ8EV8WQ0T73NSR3ZJDX
> ...


Yeah, I do.  They suck.  Really weak sound.  Like a hose with dribbling water.  Really tinny sound.  Like cheap value store earbuds.  "Does the driver have a magnet?" type of impression.


----------



## actorlife

vstolpner said:


> Well Edifier are from AliExpress, so no returns there.... But I'll think about it


Or buy and gift them to Me. Serious I know you want them, so get them.


----------



## FYLegend

falang said:


> My two pair of Anbes 359 arrived from Anbes Audiocart AliExpress store. They are gifts but I tried one out briefly.
> 
> The boxes are not labelled with any names, white light charging colour on the charging puck, named as Air in pairing mode, and can't figure out volume control. Instructions suggest a double tap but that brings up the assistant.
> 
> Brief audio impressions - they sound similar to my OG Anbes 359 which I did not like at first but grew on me over time.


Try holding the buttons 4-5 sec to change volume, but not too long before they power off. That seems to be the case for Coolhere UFO and Yineme BE30.


----------



## falang

FYLegend said:


> Try holding the buttons 4-5 sec to change volume, but not too long before they power off. That seems to be the case for Coolhere UFO and Yineme BE30.


Thanks. I'll have my gift recipients try it out.


----------



## chinmie

actorlife said:


> Time for a Tally guys. I own 6 TWS(See my sig) so far and you all??? Also any plans to add more and if yes what model. Go.



right now I'm using 5 TWS and two BT20/BT20S combo. there's also one more that's now commandeered by my wife (one of the X12) 

ooh, and i also got one 1more stylish incoming, because why the heck not 



Thesonofkrypton said:


> Just received my WF-1000XM3.  These things are seriously good. Glad I have come to the end of my search for wireless earphones (famous last words! lol).



farewell friend, we'll see you again next week


----------



## Yardstick

I've been intrigued by these TWE's lately, but haven't taken the plunge. I was under the impression that the sound quality suffered too much with wireless solutions. And the early BT headphones weren't really "wireless" so that was never appealing. I'm not sure why I need TWE's since I have a few wired IEMs and over ear headphones, but I might have to satisfy my newfound curiosity.  Besides, the right number of headphones = N+1, right?

From reading here, it seems like the Tranya T3 is well regarded and relatively inexpensive.  How does the Tranya T1-Pro compare?  I'd say I have medium sized ears, so I think either one would work size-wise.  Or is there something better (more neutral, or just slightly bass heavy) in the same price range?


----------



## vstolpner

Yardstick said:


> I've been intrigued by these TWE's lately, but haven't taken the plunge. I was under the impression that the sound quality suffered too much with wireless solutions. And the early BT headphones weren't really "wireless" so that was never appealing. I'm not sure why I need TWE's since I have a few wired IEMs and over ear headphones, but I might have to satisfy my newfound curiosity.  Besides, the right number of headphones = N+1, right?
> 
> From reading here, it seems like the Tranya T3 is well regarded and relatively inexpensive.  How does the Tranya T1-Pro compare?  I'd say I have medium sized ears, so I think either one would work size-wise.  Or is there something better (more neutral, or just slightly bass heavy) in the same price range?



I think the T3 and T1-PRO actually have a slightly different sound, with the T3'S coming out on top. They're actually my favorite pair right now.... And my review will be up later tonight


----------



## wizll (Jul 22, 2019)

Yardstick said:


> I've been intrigued by these TWE's lately, but haven't taken the plunge. I was under the impression that the sound quality suffered too much with wireless solutions. And the early BT headphones weren't really "wireless" so that was never appealing. I'm not sure why I need TWE's since I have a few wired IEMs and over ear headphones, but I might have to satisfy my newfound curiosity.  Besides, the right number of headphones = N+1, right?
> 
> From reading here, it seems like the Tranya T3 is well regarded and relatively inexpensive.  How does the Tranya T1-Pro compare?  I'd say I have medium sized ears, so I think either one would work size-wise.  Or is there something better (more neutral, or just slightly bass heavy) in the same price range?


my first foray into TWE started with zolo liberty plus kickstarter. those were nice/ok at the time (2+ years ago), but eventually it had some issues and kicked the bucket and the next thing I got were the Sony 1000XM3. those were great/excellent, but then summer came along (say, a month or two ago) and I just couldn't bear wearing the headset in the heat anymore, so it was either go back to wired IEMs or look for something to replace my old liberty plus. I ended up in this here thread, and the rest is history. Since then, I've ended up with 4 $30-50 TWEs, and potentially a fifth incoming. It has been a fun ride. Definitely nice to see this thread continue to evolve as this tech also continues to evolve. That said, I'd say sound quality and connectivity is way better than it was when TWEs started to show up. It's nice to not have a wire to be bothered with for a commute, workout, or just doing some chores around the house.

I have T3, bassy pair. i personally switch around between that and the anbes359. Most of the replies that i've seen say that T1-Pro is maybe a tad less bass in comparison. mpow t5 has been getting some hype lately in that price range, which also happens to have an amazon lightning deal right now for 3 more hours: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07SR1FTD4/


----------



## Yardstick

vstolpner said:


> I think the T3 and T1-PRO actually have a slightly different sound, with the T3'S coming out on top. They're actually my favorite pair right now.... And my review will be up later tonight



I look forward to reading your review.  I'm curious in what way the T3's came out on top!


----------



## snip3r77

falang said:


> My two pair of Anbes 359 arrived from Anbes Audiocart AliExpress store. They are gifts but I tried one out briefly.
> 
> The boxes are not labelled with any names, white light charging colour on the charging puck, named as Air in pairing mode, and can't figure out volume control. Instructions suggest a double tap but that brings up the assistant.
> 
> Brief audio impressions - they sound similar to my OG Anbes 359 which I did not like at first but grew on me over time.


So getting from this store is legit?


----------



## falang

snip3r77 said:


> So getting from this store is legit?


I don't think I can confirm that with absolute confidence. They are not branded the same but they do look identical to my original pair. And a brief listening session suggests they sound the same. However, the controls are different to the original, hence the doubt.


----------



## vstolpner

Alright, picked up the Mpow... Will have to compare with Tranya T3's and send back the loser....


----------



## actorlife

vstolpner said:


> Alright, picked up the Mpow... Will have to compare with Tranya T3's and send back the loser....


So Tally thus 2 people bought the Funcl and 2 peeps bought the mpow from the Zon.


----------



## david8613 (Jul 22, 2019)

vstolpner said:


> I think the T3 and T1-PRO actually have a slightly different sound, with the T3'S coming out on top. They're actually my favorite pair right now.... And my review will be up later tonight



I have to agree with you here, the tranya t3 are so good after a long burn in period, my anbes 359, jabra 65t actives, and I hate to say it even my senheisser momentum tw took a back seat to the tranya t3 these are my daily drivers, great over all sound, wide soundstage, clear treble, nice mids and vocals, deep strong bass but clean. Get very loud, Good controls and fantastic battery life, even case battery life is incredible. I'm wonder how the mpow t5 compare to the tranya t3?


----------



## actorlife

david8613 said:


> I have to agree with you here, the tranya t3 are so good after a long burn in period, my anbes 359, jabra 65t actives, and I hate to say it even my senheisser momentum tw took a back seat to the tranya t3 these are my daily drivers, great over all sound, wide soundstage, clear treble, nice mids and vocals, deep strong bass but clean. Get very loud, Good controls and fantastic battery life, even case battery life is incredible. I'm wonder how the mpow t5 compare to the tranya t3?


Stop it. Grunt. That's on my list too


----------



## david8613

I like these I wonder how they sound
https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B07R5MKX3K/ref=ox_sc_act_image_6?smid=AN9GE5W49LU66&psc=1

And look good too

https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B07THV7NL1/ref=ox_sc_act_image_4?smid=A38BVKBQDU1MD9&psc=1


----------



## FYLegend

falang said:


> I don't think I can confirm that with absolute confidence. They are not branded the same but they do look identical to my original pair. And a brief listening session suggests they sound the same. However, the controls are different to the original, hence the doubt.


Anbes Official and Magic Office claim they have Anbes branded versions, but I have my doubts as they did not send any actual photos, plus Anbes Official chat seems to be run by the same person as Audiocart. ZC Line and Anbes 3C seem to sell nameless and/or rebrands.

If you get a proper-sounding unit, all should be good, but if you do get a defect like I did, there won't be any good after-service or manufacturer warranty as Anbes, Kissral and Letscom claim to have. I'm not sure if "Monster Clarity HD Airlinks" is a legitimate product or if someone unofficially slapped Monster branding and aesthetics onto a UFO TWS. It's not listed on Monster's site and only found on Amazon and a few Hong Kong stores online.

One more issue with the Earfun Free - the mono right-ear mode doesn't use a mono downmix but the left channel audio is shifted to play on the right. This shouldn't be an issue for most songs, but I can't hear the vocals in Who Needs You by Queen. Would have been better if it just downmixed both channels to the right bud.


----------



## FYLegend

david8613 said:


> I like these I wonder how they sound
> https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B07R5MKX3K/ref=ox_sc_act_image_6?smid=AN9GE5W49LU66&psc=1
> 
> And look good too
> ...


I've had the Earfun Oluv tuned edition for 5 days now - treble is rather laid-back with a bit of sparkle, upper mids have a bit of presence but the bass can be sloppy in certain tracks. Don't have the original tuning for comparison but some reviewers have found it muddy in the bass. There's only so much Oluv could do to improve it.


 

I'm eyeing on the Wavefuns as well, but a user here said they sounded muddy with micro-disconnections. You might be able to find them under YTOM or Lypertek T1-APX among other names. Beware that some might only come with microUSB port instead of Type C as those ones do.


----------



## prophette

This thread is both a blessing and a curse.    Having made it through almost every page because I am insane, I think I have found my TWS setup for both work and home until the next generation of Qualcomm chips come out.

I was never particularly interested in true wireless buds, even after my husband came home one day with the Jabra Elite 65t stuck in his ears.  I noted how good they sounded when I talked to him on the phone but didn't really go beyond that until it came time for me to replace my workout earbuds, having destroyed a pair of cheap ChiFi IEMs attached to a Radsone ES100 and then a Hiby W5 (because maybe the whole setup should be waterproof, yes?), I decided maybe I should just buy another dedicated pair of workout buds.  I'd used the Jaybird X2 for years before they conked out on me and liked them fairly well but I wasn't excited about buying the X3 or X4.  Instead, I ended up buying the Jabra Elite Sport, not so much for their sound or call quality, but because of the heart rate monitor.  It's actually pretty good and holds up well against a chest strap.

After having pulled myself out of the IEM rabbit hole at the beginning of the year, I was back in the hole again because I liked the convenience of true wireless but other than the heart rate monitor, I don't really like the Jabra Elite Sport.  I mean, I'm not giving them up because I really do like having the heart rate monitor and I love not having to worry about wires or clips.  But I won't use them outside of workouts.  They make my ears stick out and they're not super comfortable.  Could I find something like them that I could take to work and use around the house?  I bet I could.  Back to Head-FI against all better judgment.

I have 3 other true wireless buds in my possession right now but one of them is going to be returned.
Creative Outlier Air
Helm Wireless 5.0
Nuarl NT01-AX

This is where I really have to credit this thread because I'd never heard of Nuarl in my life but they are my favorite of the 3.  I find them very easy to wear (they even come with tiny SpinFits!) and delightful to listen to.  They don't lack bass but they aren't as bass heavy as the others so I can really enjoy using them across all genres of music.  I especially like them for acoustic jazz.  I'm a pianist so although I appreciate good bass, I do not want it overpowering my beloved piano.  The bass is there and you even get a sense of gentle rumble on some tracks, but it sounds more balanced to me than the others.  The mic quality seems the best of the 3 to me as well, so that's a plus.  They don't block out a lot of noise, so this will be the set I use at home. I love them.  I'm so happy this thread introduced me to the brand.

I was nervous about the Creative Outlier Air because everywhere I turned it seemed people were having problems with them but so far, my experience has been solid, even at work where I unfortunately exist in an open office environment where you can hear everyone all the time.  I haven't had any dropouts or connection issues despite all the potential Bluetooth interference.  I also find the Airs to be very comfortable and I really appreciate that the case charges via USB-C.  They are a bit bassy, but at work I think this helps drown out the misery.  This will be my work set - and thanks to someone on this thread, I have a pair of noise-blocking earmuffs I can wear over them when the guy next to me is on a call because man he is loud.  That's saving me money because I can return this pair of Nuraphones I have that I thought would be good to block him out (and they do, but at a much higher cost and not much higher quality).

I really wanted to love the Helm.  All of the reviews on Amazon were 5 star when I bought them.  And to be fair, they aren't bad.  When I first started listening to them, I was impressed.  But I just find that they are way too bassy for me.  These are words I didn't know I could utter, but there you have it.  You can have too much of a good thing and these pushed me past my limit.  I also find that they don't really fit my ears very well.  I can good a good seal (you can even use standard Comply SmartCore tips with them, which is awesome except that makes the bass ever more present) but the little ear fin just sticks out and doesn't rest properly in my ear no matter which tip I use.  That just looks silly.  I'd not care if they were the best sounding of the bunch, but they aren't so they're going back.  

None of these are cheap (the Air were the cheapest at $80) but price wasn't my determining factor here.  I was mainly interested in getting something with the QCC3026 chip in it for theoretical best performance with my Android phones.  I know there are cheaper options that fit this bill but some of the brand names are just awful.  I don't want to walk around with MPOW in my ears.  Judge me if you like, I don't care.  Nuarl is bad enough.


----------



## slipstreamrider

actorlife said:


> So Tally thus 2 people bought the Funcl and 2 peeps bought the mpow from the Zon.



Another count for the Mpow. I had been debating between the Anbes/Kissral, Tranya and Mpow...guess the sale pushed me over to the Mpow.



vstolpner said:


> I think the T3 and T1-PRO actually have a slightly different sound, with the T3'S coming out on top. They're actually my favorite pair right now.... And my review will be up later tonight



Also looking forward to the review and comparison


----------



## chinmie

FYLegend said:


> I've had the Earfun Oluv tuned edition for 5 days now - treble is rather laid-back with a bit of sparkle, upper mids have a bit of presence but the bass can be sloppy in certain tracks. Don't have the original tuning for comparison but some reviewers have found it muddy in the bass. There's only so much Oluv could do to improve it.
> 
> 
> 
> I'm eyeing on the Wavefuns as well, but a user here said they sounded muddy with micro-disconnections. You might be able to find them under YTOM or Lypertek T1-APX among other names. Beware that some might only come with microUSB port instead of Type C as those ones do.



i held back on the earfun oluv after i watch his own video about it: the oluv version have frequency holes in the overall sound, i even think the regular one sounded more coherent, although the midbass is bleeding too much for my taste.

i don't know if that's the limitation from earfun or it is just his preference, but from his other videos, everytime he EQd other earphones to his preference, it always sounded off for me.


----------



## slipstreamrider

prophette said:


> I don't want to walk around with MPOW in my ears.  Judge me if you like, I don't care.  Nuarl is bad enough.



LMAO! Can't say I disagree. Definitely one of the reasons I preferred the Anbes' low key design.


----------



## actorlife (Jul 22, 2019)

prophette said:


> This thread is both a blessing and a curse.    Having made it through almost every page because I am insane, I think I have found my TWS setup for both work and home until the next generation of Qualcomm chips come out.
> 
> I was never particularly interested in true wireless buds, even after my husband came home one day with the Jabra Elite 65t stuck in his ears.  I noted how good they sounded when I talked to him on the phone but didn't really go beyond that until it came time for me to replace my workout earbuds, having destroyed a pair of cheap ChiFi IEMs attached to a Radsone ES100 and then a Hiby W5 (because maybe the whole setup should be waterproof, yes?), I decided maybe I should just buy another dedicated pair of workout buds.  I'd used the Jaybird X2 for years before they conked out on me and liked them fairly well but I wasn't excited about buying the X3 or X4.  Instead, I ended up buying the Jabra Elite Sport, not so much for their sound or call quality, but because of the heart rate monitor.  It's actually pretty good and holds up well against a chest strap.
> 
> ...


Thank you for posting your great overview. Those Nuarl have Graphene drivers and they are incredible. I bought a brand called Hopshoop which features the Graphene drivers and I was awestruck by them. I paid $30 for them and I struck gold. I tell ya you don't have to spend $300 for good quality TWS. The Anbes 359(dynamic driver) was heaven sent and a true bargain. I know people here are sick of hearing me talk about them. ✌️I love chi-fi when it done right. I hope you post more often in the future. Phew you read this whole thread? Your a champ. I think I started at the end of 2018 till when I first posted in this thread I think March.


----------



## FunctionalDoc (Jul 22, 2019)

prophette said:


> This thread is both a blessing and a curse.    Having made it through almost every page because I am insane, I think I have found my TWS setup for both work and home until the next generation of Qualcomm chips come out.
> 
> I was never particularly interested in true wireless buds, even after my husband came home one day with the Jabra Elite 65t stuck in his ears.  I noted how good they sounded when I talked to him on the phone but didn't really go beyond that until it came time for me to replace my workout earbuds, having destroyed a pair of cheap ChiFi IEMs attached to a Radsone ES100 and then a Hiby W5 (because maybe the whole setup should be waterproof, yes?), I decided maybe I should just buy another dedicated pair of workout buds.  I'd used the Jaybird X2 for years before they conked out on me and liked them fairly well but I wasn't excited about buying the X3 or X4.  Instead, I ended up buying the Jabra Elite Sport, not so much for their sound or call quality, but because of the heart rate monitor.  It's actually pretty good and holds up well against a chest strap.
> 
> ...



I had the  Nuarl NT01-AX but the BT connectivity on my Google Pixel XL and Hiby R6 PRO wasn't even 10 ft inside in the house with  no steel studs. and had stuttering on connection. They were well built and sound great . I returned them .

I am awaiting  to the end of this month looking at these AVIOT Hybrid Driver True Wireless Earphones TE-BD21f (Black)
triple driver and thesy have a 9 mm DD and 2 BA driver Japanese made ones have caught my eye. They will be at $150 mark  in price.

They be ordered from Amazon Japan but awaiting for them to go on sale on US site for easy return.

I looked a the Helm and the Creative also.


----------



## snip3r77

david8613 said:


> I have to agree with you here, the tranya t3 are so good after a long burn in period, my anbes 359, jabra 65t actives, and I hate to say it even my senheisser momentum tw took a back seat to the tranya t3 these are my daily drivers, great over all sound, wide soundstage, clear treble, nice mids and vocals, deep strong bass but clean. Get very loud, Good controls and fantastic battery life, even case battery life is incredible. I'm wonder how the mpow t5 compare to the tranya t3?



With the problematic in getting an OG anbes, would it be better to just get a T3/mpow t5?


----------



## Mouseman

slipstreamrider said:


> Another count for the Mpow. I had been debating between the Anbes/Kissral, Tranya and Mpow...guess the sale pushed me over to the Mpow.
> 
> 
> 
> Also looking forward to the review and comparison


Add another one for the Mpow. I have two sets coming on the slow boat, but this was too good of a buy.


----------



## chinmie

prophette said:


> I don't want to walk around with MPOW in my ears



now your statement just makes the MPow less attractive to buy for me 

but i agree with you, that's why i prefer earphones/iems with just logo on it on minimum. best if it has no markings at all


----------



## actorlife

snip3r77 said:


> With the problematic in getting an OG anbes, would it be better to just get a T3/mpow t5?


Try the Kissral R18 they are only 29 on amazon. The Anbes 359 will be on amazon July 27th. If you wanna wait. We got confirmation that the Kissral and Anbes are the same.


----------



## david8613

If I couldn't get the anbes 359, and you like a little extra thump in the bass department, the tranya is great buy. They took longer to burn in than the others but sound great even at low volumes, I use them alot to sleep with, so the bass in nice


----------



## chinmie

on the topic of sleeping TWS, what is the smallest or the flattest profile TWS that you know? I'm a side sleeper, and from my experience the sabbat X12, earin M2, and mifo o5 are flat enough to sleep sideways (but the mifo produced uncomfortable vacuum inside the ears)


----------



## clerkpalmer

chinmie said:


> on the topic of sleeping TWS, what is the smallest or the flattest profile TWS that you know? I'm a side sleeper, and from my experience the sabbat X12, earin M2, and mifo o5 are flat enough to sleep sideways (but the mifo produced uncomfortable vacuum inside the ears)


I swear I don’t work for advanced but they are very minimal in the ear.


----------



## rafaelroxalot

Hello, can anyone tell me that blitzwolf in ear bluetooth are good earphones? Have a good bass and quality?
Can recommend another chinese on that are better not too expensive?

Thanks


----------



## nc8000

chinmie said:


> on the topic of sleeping TWS, what is the smallest or the flattest profile TWS that you know? I'm a side sleeper, and from my experience the sabbat X12, earin M2, and mifo o5 are flat enough to sleep sideways (but the mifo produced uncomfortable vacuum inside the ears)



Earin M2


----------



## chinmie

nc8000 said:


> Earin M2



thanks, i already have the M2  also I'm trying to look for ones that uses buttons  and have volume control


----------



## vstolpner

FunctionalDoc said:


> I had the  Nuarl NT01-AX but the BT connectivity on my Google Pixel XL and Hiby R6 PRO wasn't even 10 ft inside in the house with  no steel studs. and had stuttering on connection. They were well built and sound great . I returned them .
> 
> I am awaiting  to the end of this month looking at these AVIOT Hybrid Driver True Wireless Earphones TE-BD21f (Black)
> triple driver and thesy have a 9 mm DD and 2 BA driver Japanese made ones have caught my eye. They will be at $150 mark  in price.
> ...



I'm really curious how those sound! Let us know!!!!!


----------



## riodgarp

hei guys, how to make button on tws or in my case mifo o5 pro silent, cause everytime I pressed one of four button, I can hear annoying nut or tut sound when I press volume button but not while connecting with laptop win 10


----------



## clerkpalmer

Anyone know what these are?

https://www.amazon.com/AVIOT-Wireless-Earphone-TE-D01b-Products】/dp/B07K49R8J2


----------



## vstolpner

So the Anbes are on for $25.... Anyone....?

https://amzn.to/2Lzpepd


----------



## clerkpalmer

vstolpner said:


> So the Anbes are on for $25.... Anyone....?
> 
> https://amzn.to/2Lzpepd



I don’t think those are the anbes you want. Might want someone else to confirm.


----------



## vstolpner

clerkpalmer said:


> I don’t think those are the anbes you want. Might want someone else to confirm.



No, those are the 358's... But they're some new 2019 model.... Just wondering if anyone wants to try them out and let everyone know :-D


----------



## vstolpner

clerkpalmer said:


> Anyone know what these are?
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/AVIOT-Wireless-Earphone-TE-D01b-Products】/dp/B07K49R8J2



Seem like a high quality TWS... They also sell a triple driver TWS in Japan...


----------



## clerkpalmer

vstolpner said:


> Seem like a high quality TWS... They also sell a triple driver TWS in Japan...


Maybe I’ll wait for those. Hybrid tws seems like something that would definitely interest me.


----------



## donedj

So i recently got the Samsung Galaxy buds for a good price, used about $70 and they are well worth the money. I contacted Samsung gave them the serial and they said warranty is good for until August 2020. Sweet! They are about 5-6 hours as advertised, easy setup decent sound, better than AirPods and extremely comfortable. I can see myself making them the primary gym and biking headphones for sure.


----------



## snip3r77

vstolpner said:


> So the Anbes are on for $25.... Anyone....?
> 
> https://amzn.to/2Lzpepd


You need to get the UFO version


----------



## mikp

well, seems no manufacturer will answer if they have apt-x hd qcc51xx coming. Think i've mailed over 10 companies.

So 65t is still my nr1 for hiking because of ambient and multipoint. The syllable s101 has grown on me. the case actually fits large mandarine tips. Also they do not drain battery while in the case.

Borrowed the sennheiser for a week, they drained in the case and not better than the mavins with spinfit filled with foam.


----------



## FYLegend

Has anyone heard these? https://www.optoma.com/us/product/be-free6/


----------



## vstolpner

clerkpalmer said:


> Maybe I’ll wait for those. Hybrid tws seems like something that would definitely interest me.



Check out 1more as well... They announced a QCC51XX hybrid TWS in January... Still no word about it though after that :-/



mikp said:


> well, seems no manufacturer will answer if they have apt-x hd qcc51xx coming. Think i've mailed over 10 companies.
> 
> So 65t is still my nr1 for hiking because of ambient and multipoint. The syllable s101 has grown on me. the case actually fits large mandarine tips. Also they do not drain battery while in the case.
> 
> Borrowed the sennheiser for a week, they drained in the case and not better than the mavins with spinfit filled with foam.



Have you tried 1more? They're supposed to be releasing their QCC51XX this year


----------



## FYLegend

Wonder what's taking 1More so long, but then again the Stylish took quite some time from its first announcement (which only said BT4.2 and didn't even mention AptX). Maybe it has to do with Android Q optimization. The Dual Driver BT ANC (cabled bluetooth IEM) is listed among them so I'd suspect the TWS will follow suit.

I really hope Astrotec releases something with AptX soon...


----------



## tsoltan

I've contacted all 5 stores on Ali for anbes 359 and all of them sent me the same photo of the box. Looks like it's not the original anbes. But if it sounds the same I don't care.


----------



## Dcell7 (Jul 23, 2019)

KZ joining the game

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000028142904.html

Hybrid driver design, BT 5.0 with AAC and SBC, touch controls with volume control. Still using micro-usb though.


----------



## vstolpner (Jul 23, 2019)

My Tranya T3 review finally up!!!

Also, decided to put together TWS Review page with rankings and comparison pics


----------



## bronco1015

Caved and bought the Mpow T5...and also took a chance on the MeeAudio X10. Anyone ever tried them? Don't know why i bought them other than curiosity, as i have the Sony WF1000X M3 arriving next month. Though, i do need a pair with good call quality for when my MTWs die, or aren't with me, and i think the X10s could be a sleeper hit.  But, if i like them and end up keeping all 3, smh; that would put me at 5 TWS models including anbes 359 and Sennheiser MTW. Sorry budget, it's not like we're looking at buying a house or anything.


----------



## chinmie

Dcell7 said:


> KZ joining the game
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000028142904.html
> 
> Hybrid driver design, BT 5.0 with AAC and SBC, touch controls with volume control. Still using micro-usb though.



nice look. I'll wait for reviews rolling in first though


----------



## FYLegend

actorlife said:


> Try the Kissral R18 they are only 29 on amazon. The Anbes 359 will be on amazon July 27th. If you wanna wait. We got confirmation that the Kissral and Anbes are the same.


Was it this link? It no longer says July 27 and just says "unavailable". https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07M8LWN2G/ref=emc_b_5_i



tsoltan said:


> I've contacted all 5 stores on Ali for anbes 359 and all of them sent me the same photo of the box. Looks like it's not the original anbes. But if it sounds the same I don't care.


Even Anbes Official sent you that photo? Not so "official" then.


----------



## Soreniglio

Here a comparison between Anbes 359 and QCY T2C:

Case:

I prefer QCY's case, definitely, looks way sturdier than Anbes' one, also love the black matte style.

Fit/seal/size:

I honestly like the QCY more on this too, they stand more firmly in my ears, while the Anbes are a bit too small (I guess I have big ears), fit is an issue on the right ear (same goes with Anbes), I think it's a problem of mine ugh.

Sound:

They're definitely different. Anbes sound more "airy" and "spacious", while the QCY seem more intimate and warm to me, I think I dig the sound of both, a tad more of the QCY perhaps, have to try them more to give a rating.

Controls:

Anbes' controls are butchered, so they can't win at all. Also, the QCY buttons are SO SO easy to press and chill, I love them.


As for now, QCY are hands down the best.


----------



## tsoltan

FYLegend said:


> Was it this link? It no longer says July 27 and just says "unavailable". https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07M8LWN2G/ref=emc_b_5_i
> 
> 
> Even Anbes Official sent you that photo? Not so "official" then.


No reply from them. But anyway 'official' on Ali it's just marketing crap.


----------



## Soreniglio (Jul 23, 2019)

I'm trying to listen to some Progressive Metal on the QCY (using the smallest eartips), and **** if they're good.

Anyways, how do I know which size of eartips suit me best? I find that usually the smallest eartips are very easy to put in my ears, while medium are average difficulty, and the biggest are easy too, but the sound is weird, feels like I'm listening to the music while being in a tunnel.


With the smallest eartips the QCY sound way more bass-heavy, I can feel the bass clearly, but mids are forward too, maybe highs lack a bit.

With the medium eartips everything seems more balanced, perhaps.

EDIT: Just kidding, with the smallest eartips I'm listening to Rishloo (prog metal) very clearly and fine, guitars are a bit recessed perhaps.

Also, I heard that QCY's volume could be lacking. I honestly think they're great in that too!

I'm loving the QCY so far, I think I might decide and upgrade to the Tranya T3 one day!


----------



## BigZ12

Bartig said:


> Your description and the design of the case and earpieces make it quite clear for me: this is another design of the excellent Mpow T5!


Can confirm that the Lypertek TEVI is not an identical copy of Mpow T5.
Had a very nice chat with Marco at Lypertek, and he said the following:
"Of course not the re-brand for MPOW models. We made the own tooling and tunes the sound by ourselves to meet our requirements.  If you have the MPOW model, you can compare the sound by yourself.  Then you will know. "

I asked about what he meant by tooling, and he replied:
"The tooling means the mold to inject the plastic parts.  You can see the upper cover  of TEVI is unique from the market."

Just have to say I love the Tevis after having them for a day. 9,5 out of 10. Just missing HD codecs, and transparent mode maybe. Sound great, and the battery is awesome!


----------



## Slater

KZs upcoming TW earphone - a hybrid!


----------



## Bartig (Jul 23, 2019)

david8613 said:


> I have to agree with you here, the tranya t3 are so good after a long burn in period, my anbes 359, jabra 65t actives, and I hate to say it even my senheisser momentum tw took a back seat to the tranya t3 these are my daily drivers, great over all sound, wide soundstage, clear treble, nice mids and vocals, deep strong bass but clean. Get very loud, Good controls and fantastic battery life, even case battery life is incredible. I'm wonder how the mpow t5 compare to the tranya t3?


The Mpow T5 sounds a bit more smooth than the tranya T3, which has a more emphasized bass. I love them both. You can read my Tranya T3 review here, by the way. My T5 review is in the making. Still enjoying and comparing it first. 



david8613 said:


> I like these I wonder how they sound
> https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B07R5MKX3K/ref=ox_sc_act_image_6?smid=AN9GE5W49LU66&psc=1
> 
> And look good too
> ...


Don't buy the second one if you have an iPhone! The AptX screws up the connection on the iPhone, causing minor sound dips between the earpieces and some weird crackles in the sound. It does sound great on Android though.



rafaelroxalot said:


> Hello, can anyone tell me that blitzwolf in ear bluetooth are good earphones? Have a good bass and quality?
> Can recommend another chinese on that are better not too expensive?
> 
> Thanks


Maybe my Leaderboard of cheap true wireless earphones can help you furter. Basically, everything rated 4 and 5 stars is great. I haven't tested Blitzwolf models because Blitzwolf itself can't even tell me which of their wireless earphones is the best...


----------



## BobJS

clerkpalmer said:


> I don’t think those are the anbes you want. Might want someone else to confirm.



These are not the droids you're looking for ...


----------



## Soreniglio

BobJS said:


> These are not the droids you're looking for ...



LOL


----------



## BobJS

Let's tell it like it is.  Most of these are junk.  The only ones worth getting are:

1. MW07
2. Bose Free Soundsport
3. Nuarl

Commence trash talk !


----------



## ccrys

Can someon recommend tw earphones under 100$ ?
I'm temptated for tfz x1e or Mifo O5, wich is the same product rebranded?

Has anyone compared them with Sennheiser mtw ? I know that is more expensive, but I can consider to buy sh if worth it.


----------



## tsoltan

ccrys said:


> Can someon recommend tw earphones under 100$ ?
> I'm temptated for tfz x1e or Mifo O5, wich is the same product rebranded?
> 
> Has anyone compared them with Sennheiser mtw ? I know that is more expensive, but I can consider to buy sh if worth it.



I tried sennheiser mtw and audio technica tws in the store and my girlfriend has mifo o5(pro). Yes SH and AT have better sound but not for 200$ more then mifo. Also its a huge difference between those tws and my tin audio t2 even with trn bt10 cable. I can't listen to mifo right away after it. So my point of view - if you are going to listen to tws - you should always listen to it and do not switch to a better one(because you will be disappointed anyway).


----------



## clerkpalmer

tsoltan said:


> I tried sennheiser mtw and audio technica tws in the store and my girlfriend has mifo o5(pro). Yes SH and AT have better sound but not for 200$ more then mifo. Also its a huge difference between those tws and my tin audio t2 even with trn bt10 cable. I can't listen to mifo right away after it. So my point of view - if you are going to listen to tws - you should always listen to it and do not switch to a better one(because you will be disappointed anyway).


As in the tin t2 w bt10 beats the mtw ?


----------



## tsoltan (Jul 23, 2019)

clerkpalmer said:


> As in the tin t2 w bt10 beats the mtw ?



In SQ for my ears yes. But trn by10 is so ugly =(
But mtw have better mic, functionality, look and they are tws.
If I had odd 300$ I would definitely buy them.
But tin t2 with bt10 combo for 50$ is dope.


----------



## snip3r77

BobJS said:


> Let's tell it like it is.  Most of these are junk.  The only ones worth getting are:
> 
> 1. MW07
> 2. Bose Free Soundsport
> ...



The battery life is not permanent. I think it's better for most of us to buy 'good enough'


----------



## BobJS (Jul 23, 2019)

snip3r77 said:


> The battery life is not permanent. I think it's better for most of us to buy 'good enough'



I'm sure that's true.  My post was really tongue-in-cheek.  If there's a point to be made, it's that one could buy a 'really good' TW IEM for less than a medium to large size collection of 'good enough's.  To each his own.


----------



## chinmie

tsoltan said:


> I tried sennheiser mtw and audio technica tws in the store and my girlfriend has mifo o5(pro). Yes SH and AT have better sound but not for 200$ more then mifo. Also its a huge difference between those tws and my tin audio t2 even with trn bt10 cable. I can't listen to mifo right away after it. So my point of view - if you are going to listen to tws - you should always listen to it and do not switch to a better one(because you will be disappointed anyway).



i don't have problems or disappointed switching between my wired and TWS or BT20S combos

between the Tin T2 (sparkly and detailed) and Mifo o5 (warm and midbass-y), i can see that the sound would be quite a jump in sound signature, but I'd argue it's not because the mifo is lower in sound quality


----------



## WesennTony

clerkpalmer said:


> Anyone know what these are?
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/AVIOT-Wireless-Earphone-TE-D01b-Products】/dp/B07K49R8J2


I'm eyeing on these as well. Found mixed reviews online. Some said they're better than Nuarl Nt01ax and MTW...


----------



## clerkpalmer

WesennTony said:


> I'm eyeing on these as well. Found mixed reviews online. Some said they're better than Nuarl Nt01ax and MTW...


Any English translations?


----------



## actorlife (Jul 23, 2019)

Dcell7 said:


> KZ joining the game
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000028142904.html
> 
> Hybrid driver design, BT 5.0 with AAC and SBC, touch controls with volume control. Still using micro-usb though.



Thanks dcell BA drivers cool, but 3hr battery sucks. I'd like to hear it though. I'm a KZ fan, but not bought anything from them in a long while. Who is gonna be the first to buy them? I'm wondering if these are ZST in wireless?


----------



## igorneumann (Jul 23, 2019)

HOLYMOLY, i have big news...

The 1st Hybrid TWS IEM from none less than KZ is available as "public beta"

Knowing KZ it will sound amazing, until they release the V2 that will be way worse, not that it will matter anyways as the bluetooth will not work...

OR, it will be different this time as the same slogan as TFZ/MIFO (Make it fully optimal) and the similar hinge indicate they are being designed/manufacted by someone that knows what they do.

https://es.aliexpress.com/item/4000...04laR9Ek&spm=a2g1y.12024536.slider_70171766.0


----------



## igorneumann

Dcell7 said:


> KZ joining the game
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000028142904.html
> 
> Hybrid driver design, BT 5.0 with AAC and SBC, touch controls with volume control. Still using micro-usb though.


Damn, you beat me to it... got so excited havent checked if was already posted.


----------



## Slater

BobJS said:


> Let's tell it like it is.  Most of these are junk.  The only ones worth getting are:
> 
> 1. MW07
> 2. Bose Free Soundsport
> ...



EarStudio ES100 is junk?


----------



## snip3r77

BobJS said:


> I'm sure that's true.  My post was really tongue-in-cheek.  If there's a point to be made, it's that one could buy a 'really good' TW IEM for less than a medium to large size collection of 'good enough's.  To each his own.



To each of it's own, TWS to me is a tool not a reference system.


----------



## snip3r77

chinmie said:


> i don't have problems or disappointed switching between my wired and TWS or BT20S combos
> 
> between the Tin T2 (sparkly and detailed) and Mifo o5 (warm and midbass-y), i can see that the sound would be quite a jump in sound signature, but I'd argue it's not because the mifo is lower in sound quality



Hey man, if one were to compare anbes 359 or T5, what's the equivalent in the IEM World


----------



## Bartig

The KZ TWS was already posted guys. 



ccrys said:


> Can someon recommend tw earphones under 100$ ?
> I'm temptated for tfz x1e or Mifo O5, wich is the same product rebranded?
> 
> Has anyone compared them with Sennheiser mtw ? I know that is more expensive, but I can consider to buy sh if worth it.


Go for the Mpow T5. They sound FANTASTIC.


----------



## BobJS

Slater said:


> EarStudio ES100 is junk?



No ... ya got me.


----------



## Caipirina

Slater said:


> KZs upcoming TW earphone - a hybrid!


Dang it!!! Couldn’t pull the trigger fast enough on this one  
Even risking having it sent to exotic, non-summer spy location... 

Better be good!


----------



## actorlife (Jul 23, 2019)

Caipirina said:


> Dang it!!! Couldn’t pull the trigger fast enough on this one
> Even risking having it sent to exotic, non-summer spy location...
> 
> Better be good!


Can't wait for your thoughts. From the ad seems to be a Dual-Driver BA/Dynamic. Maybe a wireless ZST. If that is the case it's a dream come true as I recently posted I wanted a zst wireless. Oh spy location.


----------



## DigDub

clerkpalmer said:


> Anyone know what these are?
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/AVIOT-Wireless-Earphone-TE-D01b-Products】/dp/B07K49R8J2


I have tried this in store. They are pretty decent, but the controls are basically non existent. Can only play/pause and skip forward track. No skipping back and no volume control. The casing design is exactly the same as the mpow t5.


----------



## vstolpner

Caipirina said:


> Dang it!!! Couldn’t pull the trigger fast enough on this one
> Even risking having it sent to exotic, non-summer spy location...
> 
> Better be good!



Do let us know how they are!

I'm thinking I'll wait for now.... Seems a few of us are on the fence...


----------



## Hisma

hey guys, 

I wanted to jump on the TWS train and I see a lot of chi-fi brands mentioned.  However nobody has once mentioned edifier.  Is there a reason for that?  youtube seems to give the TWS2 decent reviews.  I decided to purchase the edifier TWS5 and it just arrived today.  It sounds surprisingly solid.  Good dynamic range.  Punchy lows, crisp highs, "ok" mids.  Nothing really jumps out but they're still pleasntly surprising.  

I got it for 449 RMB ($65).  It seems to be on the higher end of the chi-fi TWS range, but it comes w/ the latest qualcomm chip (QCC3026), APT-X, & some other decent specs.  

I could only find one review (in chinese) https://new.qq.com/omn/20190421/20190421A00OGT.html.  It's quite thurough and they even did a tear-down.  Gave it a favorable rating.  

So just curious... anyone own any edifiers?  I'm quite happy w/ my TWS5's so far.


----------



## chinmie

snip3r77 said:


> Hey man, if one were to compare anbes 359 or T5, what's the equivalent in the IEM World



sadly i haven't got the chance to try the anbes and the mpow


----------



## vstolpner

Hisma said:


> hey guys,
> 
> I wanted to jump on the TWS train and I see a lot of chi-fi brands mentioned.  However nobody has once mentioned edifier.  Is there a reason for that?  youtube seems to give the TWS2 decent reviews.  I decided to purchase the edifier TWS5 and it just arrived today.  It sounds surprisingly solid.  Good dynamic range.  Punchy lows, crisp highs, "ok" mids.  Nothing really jumps out but they're still pleasntly surprising.
> 
> ...



Welcome to the club!

There's been some discussion about the Edifier TWS, but not much.
I was debating to pick up the TWS1, but then decided on the MPOW T5.
I really like well defined base, so guess TWS5 wouldn't be for me based on your feedback 

Nice to see a teardown though!

Do you have any other TWS? How do they compare?


----------



## hifi80sman

clerkpalmer said:


> Anyone know what these are?
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/AVIOT-Wireless-Earphone-TE-D01b-Products】/dp/B07K49R8J2


Those specs and earbud design look very similar, if not the same, as the MPOW T5.  Pay less.  Go with MPOW.


----------



## hifi80sman

rafaelroxalot said:


> Hello, can anyone tell me that blitzwolf in ear bluetooth are good earphones? Have a good bass and quality?
> Can recommend another chinese on that are better not too expensive?
> 
> Thanks


Which one?  The dual driver version?  If so, I like, not love them.  They are bassy, as expected, but they fit well, have decent call quality, and are fun to listen to.  However, they don't have the best clarity, so keep that in mind.  If you enjoy a warm sound signature, these will likely make you happy, however, for the price, you're better off going with the MPOW T5, Anbes 359, or (based on other's recommendations) the Tranya T3.


----------



## hifi80sman

donedj said:


> So i recently got the Samsung Galaxy buds for a good price, used about $70 and they are well worth the money. I contacted Samsung gave them the serial and they said warranty is good for until August 2020. Sweet! They are about 5-6 hours as advertised, easy setup decent sound, better than AirPods and extremely comfortable. I can see myself making them the primary gym and biking headphones for sure.


They are a nice set, however, watch out for one thing while you're in the return period.

Everything was all fine and dandy, then one day, volume in one earbud was softer than the other (can't remember which one now).  I reset everything, but it remained.  After reading online, it looks like it's a common issue.  It'll be fine for a few, then all of a sudden, boom, the good times don't keep on rolling.  Instead of trying to work with Samsung, I decided to return them.


----------



## clerkpalmer

hifi80sman said:


> Those specs and earbud design look very similar, if not the same, as the MPOW T5.  Pay less.  Go with MPOW.



Yikes.  For $199 I assumed maybe they were different.  Staying away.


----------



## hifi80sman

Slater said:


> KZs upcoming TW earphone - a hybrid!


Nice!  Excited to check those babies out!


----------



## d3myz (Jul 23, 2019)

Dcell7 said:


> KZ joining the game
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000028142904.html
> 
> Hybrid driver design, BT 5.0 with AAC and SBC, touch controls with volume control. Still using micro-usb though.


Public Beta? What? and it's got a 3 hour run time. they look super cool. but they need to really work on that running time.


----------



## d3myz

Soreniglio said:


> I'm trying to listen to some Progressive Metal on the QCY (using the smallest eartips), and **** if they're good.
> 
> Anyways, how do I know which size of eartips suit me best? I find that usually the smallest eartips are very easy to put in my ears, while medium are average difficulty, and the biggest are easy too, but the sound is weird, feels like I'm listening to the music while being in a tunnel.
> 
> ...


You had me at Progressive Metal , I use a S/M tip 11mm and and M 12mm, just depends on the TWS' i'd try playing something that has a good amount bass and test your tips, to see which is most comfy with the most amount of bass.


----------



## clerkpalmer

d3myz said:


> Public Beta? What? and it's got a 3 hour run time. they look super cool. but they need to really work on that running time.



I'm taking a flyer on these too.


----------



## d3myz

Bartig said:


> The Mpow T5 sounds a bit more smooth than the tranya T3, which has a more emphasized bass. I love them both. You can read my Tranya T3 review here, by the way. My T5 review is in the making. Still enjoying and comparing it first.
> 
> 
> Don't buy the second one if you have an iPhone! The AptX screws up the connection on the iPhone, causing minor sound dips between the earpieces and some weird crackles in the sound. It does sound great on Android though.
> ...


Your leaderboard is excellent!


----------



## vstolpner (Jul 23, 2019)

d3myz said:


> Public Beta? What? and it's got a 3 hour run time. they look super cool. but they need to really work on that running time.



I'm guessing that's why they priced it relatively low.... I mean it's half price from the (granted, very excellent) mifo O5, despite having extra driver and crossover.

Also, I saw 7-8 hours advertised in one of their photos....
Edit: nevermind, realised I read that wrong...
That said, 3 hours is enough for me


----------



## d3myz

vstolpner said:


> I'm guessing that's why they priced it relatively low.... I mean it's half price from the (granted, very excellent) mifo O5, despite having extra driver and crossover.
> 
> Also, I saw 7-8 hours advertised in one of their photos....
> Edit: nevermind, realised I read that wrong...
> That said, 3 hours is enough for me


Makes sense. 7-8 hours would be excellent. Do we know which chipset? and no aptx it looks like some probably not a QCC5xxx etc?


----------



## vstolpner

d3myz said:


> Makes sense. 7-8 hours would be excellent. Do we know which chipset? and no aptx it looks like some probably not a QCC5xxx etc?



They do have a drawing of a chipset with the letter R on it, but I'm guessing they're not using Realtek either. Probably some cheap alternative.


----------



## d3myz

vstolpner said:


> They do have a drawing of a chipset with the letter R on it, but I'm guessing they're not using Realtek either. Probably some cheap alternative.


Those Black hands holding the earbuds freaked me out, but the more I look at them, the more I want them.


----------



## igorneumann

vstolpner said:


> I'm guessing that's why they priced it relatively low.... I mean it's half price from the (granted, very excellent) mifo O5, despite having extra driver and crossover.
> 
> Also, I saw 7-8 hours advertised in one of their photos....
> Edit: nevermind, realised I read that wrong...
> That said, 3 hours is enough for me



Exactly I bought it despite the beta status (and that Im way over my iem budget this month) as they will probably be more expensive when not in Beta or, at least, came in a different color.

I think and hope its a Mifo with KZ drivers.


----------



## actorlife

d3myz said:


> Makes sense. 7-8 hours would be excellent. Do we know which chipset? and no aptx it looks like some probably not a QCC5xxx etc?


Haha your profile pic remind me of the ZST. Man I wish I could get the T1. They must have heard my rant that I wanted a BA/Dynamic damn damn damn. OK rant OVA. Grrrrrrunt. F$$K. I'm fine. ✌️⏳


----------



## vstolpner

igorneumann said:


> Exactly I bought it despite the beta status (and that Im way over my iem budget this month) as they will probably be more expensive when not in Beta or, at least, came in a different color.
> 
> I think and hope its a Mifo with KZ drivers.



So looks like quite a few people here are ordering them now.... Guess no point for me to pick them up until there's more feedback


----------



## actorlife (Jul 23, 2019)

I can't wait till they release more colors of the T1. Seem like a T3 is coming as well... This is hearsay and we will see. Exciting time in TWS. Just adding more battery will make them better.


----------



## Slater

vstolpner said:


> So looks like quite a few people here are ordering them now.... Guess no point for me to pick them up until there's more feedback



To everyone ordering the KZ T1 - consider getting the ZSE deal (where you add $2 to the cost of the T1). The ZSE not a phenomenal earphone, but for $2 it makes a great gift.


----------



## Caipirina

actorlife said:


> Can't wait for your thoughts. From the ad seems to be a Dual-Driver BA/Dynamic. Maybe a wireless ZST. If that is the case it's a dream come true as I recently posted I wanted a zst wireless. Oh spy location.



Would this actually be the first hybrid TWS? 
I am a total sucker for KZ IEMs... now this, sure, first one might have some growing pains. And sure enough we will get an AptX version in a few weeks. But heck. Finally something to be excited about. 
Let’s see if / when / how well or not shipping & delivery will work out. Tested once before and it actually worked. But don’t want to make it a habit.


----------



## Bartig

Hisma said:


> hey guys,
> 
> I wanted to jump on the TWS train and I see a lot of chi-fi brands mentioned.  However nobody has once mentioned edifier.  Is there a reason for that?  youtube seems to give the TWS2 decent reviews.  I decided to purchase the edifier TWS5 and it just arrived today.  It sounds surprisingly solid.  Good dynamic range.  Punchy lows, crisp highs, "ok" mids.  Nothing really jumps out but they're still pleasntly surprising.
> 
> ...


I owned two headphones of Edifier, a wired and wireless one. They have a good balanced sound and above average specs for their price... I just didn't fall in love with them. That withheld buying their TWS for me.



Slater said:


> To everyone ordering the KZ T1 - consider getting the ZSE deal (where you add $2 to the cost of the T1). The ZSE not a phenomenal earphone, but for $2 it makes a great gift.


Considered! And naaaah. Have enough.


----------



## actorlife (Jul 23, 2019)

Caipirina said:


> Would this actually be the first hybrid TWS?
> I am a total sucker for KZ IEMs... now this, sure, first one might have some growing pains. And sure enough we will get an AptX version in a few weeks. But heck. Finally something to be excited about.
> Let’s see if / when / how well or not shipping & delivery will work out. Tested once before and it actually worked. But don’t want to make it a habit.


Did you get fast shipping? Or regular shipping? What is the fastest you got them from Ali? Yeah KZ makes great stuff I've never been disappointed in the ones I bought + they are super cheap. I had to leave that KZ thread cause it got addictive. It really is exciting as f$$k to hear this news. Haha be prepared for at least 5 or more variety of KZ TWS by the end of the year. Get your monies ready.


----------



## Mouseman

actorlife said:


> I can't wait till they release more colors of the T1. Seem like a T3 is coming as well... This is hearsay and we will see. Exciting time in TWS. Just adding more battery will make them better.


I'm waiting for the version with the blue faceplates. They won't trick me again!


----------



## actorlife

Mouseman said:


> I'm waiting for the version with the blue faceplates. They won't trick me again!


How did you guess my thoughts? Hahaha


----------



## Bartig

It's interesting to see KZ's making a move towards the true wireless earphones market. However... They're calling it a public beta, that's a first, and second... There are just so many hit and misses from KZ. We really won't know what we'll get.


----------



## actorlife

Bartig said:


> It's interesting to see KZ's making a move towards the true wireless earphones market. However... They're calling it a public beta, that's a first, and second... There are just so many hit and misses from KZ. We really won't know what we'll get.


I agree I've read some hit and misses since I left the KZ thread. The ones I got were highly recommended and some I took a chance and was glad I did. If these are anything like my beloved KZT(some people had issues with theirs I got a good one. I guess it's where you source it from dunno) I'll be thrilled.


----------



## hifi80sman

d3myz said:


> Public Beta? What? and it's got a 3 hour run time. they look super cool. but they need to really work on that running time.


Indeed.  3 hours is the only thing I'm concerned with.  The M&D MW07 lists 3 hours, but realistically, you're looking at 2 to 2.5 depending on volume level, which is unacceptable, especially since they sound so good!  It's like going to a sushi buffet and just being able to eat half a roll.


----------



## zeppu08

Can anyone compare the 359, tranya t3 and mpow t5?? Which has the better price to performance ratio? Planning to get my first TWS but wanting it to be worth the money..


----------



## actorlife (Jul 23, 2019)

zeppu08 said:


> Can anyone compare the 359, tranya t3 and mpow t5?? Which has the better price to performance ratio? Planning to get my first TWS but wanting it to be worth the money..


Any of them. I can vouch for the 359 you won't be disappointed with them and to me the best I've tried. Wait till Amazon July 27th availability or get the Kissral R18(same as 359) on sale for $29 recently. I don't own the others you mentioned.
*My* *TWS Overviews*: Click here


----------



## vstolpner

zeppu08 said:


> Can anyone compare the 359, tranya t3 and mpow t5?? Which has the better price to performance ratio? Planning to get my first TWS but wanting it to be worth the money..



Keep in mind that since the T1 are KZ's first foray into TWS earphones (they even state that it's a public beta), I wouldn't be surprised for there to be issues with compatibility with different phones, or left-right balance issues, or connectivity issues, or just plain simple longevity.... So if you're looking for a solid and tested product, look at the others on your list.

I'm waiting for my MPOW T5, but between the Tranya and Anbes, if you like more base, go for Tranya's, if you want more balanced sound, go for Anbes. Other than that, it's a preference of what you see in photos. I have reviewed both - see my signature.


----------



## hifi80sman

Bartig said:


> Don't buy the second one if you have an iPhone! The AptX screws up the connection on the iPhone, causing minor sound dips between the earpieces and some weird crackles in the sound. It does sound great on Android though.


I've been looking at these.  So you're saying on an iPhone there's an issue with AAC playback?  The iPhone, obviously, doesn't have aptX, so that _*should *_be a non-factor.  Trying to better understand to see if it's worth taking a shot or not.

https://www.amazon.com/Headphones-Waterproof-Bluetooth-Earphones-Cancelling/dp/B07THV7NL1/


----------



## igorneumann

vstolpner said:


> So looks like quite a few people here are ordering them now.... Guess no point for me to pick them up until there's more feedback



You can count on my


vstolpner said:


> Keep in mind that since the T1 are KZ's first foray into TWS earphones (they even state that it's a public beta), I wouldn't be surprised for there to be issues with compatibility with different phones, or left-right balance issues, or connectivity issues, or just plain simple longevity.... So if you're looking for a solid and tested product, look at the others on your list.
> 
> I'm waiting for my MPOW T5, but between the Tranya and Anbes, if you like more base, go for Tranya's, if you want more balanced sound, go for Anbes. Other than that, it's a preference of what you see in photos. I have reviewed both - see my signature.



There will be no shortage of reviews of those as soon as they start arriving. (Mine included)

Agree that waiting is the best on this one, we will be the guinea pigs... as a KZ hoarder, I had to buy it.


----------



## vstolpner

igorneumann said:


> You can count on my
> 
> 
> There will be no shortage of reviews of those as soon as they start arriving. (Mine included)
> ...



Makes sense... how long until you get yours?

Afraid if I wait too long for a review I'll break and buy them myself


----------



## actorlife (Jul 23, 2019)

vstolpner said:


> Makes sense... how long until you get yours?
> 
> Afraid if I wait too long for a review I'll break and buy them myself



Buy buy buy + replacement for Migo. Fun Fun Fun. You know what is gonna happen is someone will mod the battery to 10hrs, egag Slater hopefully.


----------



## Slater

actorlife said:


> Buy buy buy + replacement for Migo. Fun Fun Fun. You know what is gonna happen is someone will mod the battery to 10hrs, egag Slater hopefully.



Haha

Funny you should mention that. Believe it or not, I have been kicking around an almost identical project (but a lot more than 10 hours)!


----------



## actorlife

Slater said:


> Haha
> 
> Funny you should mention that. Believe it or not, I have been kicking around an almost identical project (but a lot more than 10 hours)!



Whoa amazing I'm so psyched and maybe psychic.  Hooray. In case you guys don't know Slater has done some great and exciting mods here in headfi.


----------



## vstolpner

Slater said:


> Haha
> 
> Funny you should mention that. Believe it or not, I have been kicking around an almost identical project (but a lot more than 10 hours)!





actorlife said:


> Whoa amazing I'm so psyched and maybe psychic.  Hooray. In case you guys don't know Slater has done some great and exciting mods here in headfi.



Looking forward to it!


----------



## Slater

actorlife said:


> Whoa amazing I'm so psyched and maybe psychic.  Hooray. In case you guys don't know Slater has done some great and exciting mods here in headfi.



Haha, here’s a fun little project I did last week:

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kef-m500-m200-impressions-thread.675160/page-88#post-15066455

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kef-m500-m200-impressions-thread.675160/page-88#post-15066741


----------



## vstolpner

Slater said:


> Haha, here’s a fun little project I did last week:
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kef-m500-m200-impressions-thread.675160/page-88#post-15066455
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kef-m500-m200-impressions-thread.675160/page-88#post-15066741


Nicely done!!


----------



## actorlife

Slater said:


> Haha, here’s a fun little project I did last week:
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kef-m500-m200-impressions-thread.675160/page-88#post-15066455
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kef-m500-m200-impressions-thread.675160/page-88#post-15066741


Whoa man you do amazing amazing work. Clap Clap Clap. Looking forward to your battery mod on your new project.


----------



## hifi80sman

Slater said:


> Haha
> 
> Funny you should mention that. Believe it or not, I have been kicking around an almost identical project (but a lot more than 10 hours)!


So, radiation suit needed?


----------



## Bartig

hifi80sman said:


> I've been looking at these.  So you're saying on an iPhone there's an issue with AAC playback?  The iPhone, obviously, doesn't have aptX, so that _*should *_be a non-factor.  Trying to better understand to see if it's worth taking a shot or not.
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/Headphones-Waterproof-Bluetooth-Earphones-Cancelling/dp/B07THV7NL1/


I know, I couldn't believe it either. But I really do think the codecs of this tws are in the way for iPhone use. It's the only one I've encountered this huge difference on.

Thing is: it's pretty great on Android.


----------



## actorlife

Before and after KZ announcement


----------



## d3myz (Jul 23, 2019)

BigZ12 said:


> Got my Lypertek Tevis for an hour ago. Just unpacked and connected them.
> These got almost everything. AptX, AAC, BT5.0, 10 hours battery, ipx7, usb-c, volume control, siri/google assistant etc.. Even came with a free gift, a set of Flexifit foam tips.
> 
> First impressions are impressive.
> ...


Damn, looks nice. It's like an upgraded MPOW T5. Do you have the T5  to compare?


----------



## actorlife

d3myz said:


> Damn, looks nice. It's like an upgraded MPOW T5. Do you have the T5  to compare?


He doesn't he replied to that question 2 or 3 pages back.


----------



## BigZ12

d3myz said:


> Damn, looks nice. It's like an upgraded MPOW T5. Do you have the T5  to compare?


No, I'm sorry I have not. 
Did you see my follow up thread about just the T5 comparison?
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/goi...re-we-there-yet.861024/page-631#post-15078234


----------



## d3myz

clerkpalmer said:


> For those who were on the fence before, I did get a free pair of new tips from Advanced Sound which are not the shallow type original delivered.  Still only come in one size but they are a nice improvement for those who couldn't get a seal with the original bragi style tips they shipped.  While I have not gone down the path of the chi-fi options, I still think the advanced is a pretty compelling option at the price point.  They have a very musical sound to them.  Definitely a punchy "gym" sound (i.e. v shaped) but I find myself reaching for them over my 65T on most occasions.


I've had my eye on them for a while, but they seems a little overpriced in comparison to the 359, T4, T3 etc. that offer great SQ and nearly all the same features for $30-40 less. I'd really like to see a comparison.


----------



## Soreniglio (Jul 23, 2019)

I've been trying the faux Anbes 359 with the small QCY eartips on.

They sound way better now, I think they blow away the QCY, sound-wise.


Gonna put some money away and try to buy either Kissral R8/QCY T3/Edifier TWS1, I still have to think about it.

I like these Anbes, but maybe the original ones are even better!


----------



## vstolpner

So looks like Umidigi is joining the TWS game with Upods!

https://www.gizmochina.com/2019/07/...t-5th-along-with-the-new-true-wireless-upods/

For those who don't know, Umidigi is a cell phone manufacturer that's relatively well known for low to mid range, cheap cell phones, but also regularly tries new and innovative ideas in their phones.


----------



## david8613

Very upset! My tranya t3 have been great until now. For some reason only one ear bud will connect to my note 8 at a time. Its either the right or the left but never both sides anymore. I shut off the phone, unpaired/deleted the buds from phone, I re-paired them. . It doesn't connect properly, I dont know why, Any know how to solve this?


----------



## Gokuz

Any differences between Anomoibuds Capsule IP010-A and IP010-X in terms of latency.

All the reviews I've read are about IP010-A but not the newer X variant. The X variant are newer but uses a realtek chipset rather than Airoha.

Also to make matters worse, the reviews links to ali/amazon IP010-X models NOT IP010-A which they are reviewing on.


----------



## vstolpner

david8613 said:


> Very upset! My tranya t3 have been great until now. For some reason only one ear bud will connect to my note 8 at a time. Its either the right or the left but never both sides anymore. I shut off the phone, unpaired/deleted the buds from phone, I re-paired them. . It doesn't connect properly, I dont know why, Any know how to solve this?



Have you tried to fully reset the earbuds? I had this issue with my Tiso i4, and a full reset for em working perfectly


----------



## phiemon

Sorry if I ask directly without to search here: Is the Sennheiser Momentum TRUE Wireless the actual best sounding Wireless IEM? Or is there a better alternative such as Bose, Sony or b&o e8 2.0?


----------



## assassin10000 (Jul 24, 2019)

tsoltan said:


> But tin t2 with bt10 combo for 50$ is dope.



Considered trying the BT20 or BT20S to turn it into tws tin t2?


----------



## Gokuz

Anyone with Anomoibuds Capsule IP010-A?


----------



## igorneumann

vstolpner said:


> Makes sense... how long until you get yours?
> 
> Afraid if I wait too long for a review I'll break and buy them myself



Estimated delivery, August 13th.


----------



## Bartig

david8613 said:


> Very upset! My tranya t3 have been great until now. For some reason only one ear bud will connect to my note 8 at a time. Its either the right or the left but never both sides anymore. I shut off the phone, unpaired/deleted the buds from phone, I re-paired them. . It doesn't connect properly, I dont know why, Any know how to solve this?


Try contacting Tranya directly via their website maybe? Tranya.com it is. 



Gokuz said:


> Anyone with Anomoibuds Capsule IP010-A?


Yes, me. That's the one with the low latency. I too will check my links and delete links to the X version. :O


----------



## igorneumann

actorlife said:


> Buy buy buy + replacement for Migo. Fun Fun Fun. You know what is gonna happen is someone will mod the battery to 10hrs, egag Slater hopefully.



They will instantly fall of your ear?


----------



## vstolpner

phiemon said:


> Sorry if I ask directly without to search here: Is the Sennheiser Momentum TRUE Wireless the actual best sounding Wireless IEM? Or is there a better alternative such as Bose, Sony or b&o e8 2.0?



Either the Senn MTW or the M&D MW07 are leaders at the moment. I haven't listened to them personally, but from what I hear they're not exactly far ahead in terms of some of the ChiFi stuff out there. Plus if you're fine with something like TRN BT20/BT20S + IEM, then I'm sure you'll get better sound than even the crazy expensive MW07. Also, the Senn's have terrible battery life, and I believe MW07's aren't much better (but may be wrong on that last one).


----------



## vstolpner

1more Stylish going on sale on Amazon.com tomorrow @ 1:50pm PST (about 14 hours from now)

Anyone going to jump at them if they're at a good price?


----------



## igorneumann

Slater said:


> Haha, here’s a fun little project I did last week:
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kef-m500-m200-impressions-thread.675160/page-88#post-15066455
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kef-m500-m200-impressions-thread.675160/page-88#post-15066741



That looks absolutely fantastic!

I wish I had such skills, I can make things work, not to get pretty... there are cables running around all my house, usually taping them to the floor is the "temporary" solution.


----------



## phiemon (Jul 24, 2019)

vstolpner said:


> Either the Senn MTW or the M&D MW07 are leaders at the moment. I haven't listened to them personally, but from what I hear they're not exactly far ahead in terms of some of the ChiFi stuff out there. Plus if you're fine with something like TRN BT20/BT20S + IEM, then I'm sure you'll get better sound than even the crazy expensive MW07. Also, the Senn's have terrible battery life, and I believe MW07's aren't much better (but may be wrong on that last one).



Thank you for this.

For what I read, the new Sony WF-1000XM3 should be even better than the Sennheier.

Update: On Amazon.com reviews say that the Sennheiser sounds better thant the M&D. Here I would really like to receive a comment from an user.


----------



## Soreniglio

First review I found of the new Umidigi Upods

https://www.priceboon.com/product/umidigi-upods-tws-earpods/


----------



## Levanter

Just received my Pamu Slides. For their current crowdfunding price, they are quite good (build quality/feature wise).
Sound wise, they are a bit veiled, subdued, laidback with treble being rolled off with some elevated bass. You won't get that top end sparkle. Imaging is ok with slightly below average soundstage. Definitely a non fatiguing consumer targeted sounding IEM.

I didn't have very high expectations for them, so my impressions are based on my expectations for their current price and being TWS.

















Will be collecting my WF-1000XM3 tomorrow or some time this week, so the Slides will probably be my daily rough/fitness usage while the Sony's will be my travelling TWS.


----------



## blomman77

These look really nice. Similar design as Fiio FA7/1. 

https://m.alibaba.com/product/62002131539/Ancreu-NEW-T2-Bluetooths-5-0.html

Available at Ali


----------



## Boreaquis (Jul 24, 2019)

Soreniglio said:


> First review I found of the new Umidigi Upods
> 
> https://www.priceboon.com/product/umidigi-upods-tws-earpods/



That doesn't seem much like a review, to be honest. It's more of a sales pitch based on "features", including spurious claims such as "noise cancellation".


----------



## FYLegend

tsoltan said:


> No reply from them. But anyway 'official' on Ali it's just marketing ****.


When I asked, they just replied "yes"and when I asked for a photo they said "Please wait, we will shoot you later." 

I've seen 3 different rebrands that are circling about. Not sure if they all differ in volume control.
Letscom BE30 - Although Letscom seemed like a pretty respectable rebrand as it's listed on Amazon, it is possible the newer Aliexpress shipments might just have their name stamped on.
Air UFO - No branding at all...
Coolhere UFO - Coolhere hasn't really been active since last year... Mine came in a box saying Dream Sport (yet another rebrand!) They promised an ANC headphone but at a sky-high price (9999 RMB or ~1450 USD)



Bartig said:


> Don't buy the second one if you have an iPhone! The AptX screws up the connection on the iPhone, causing minor sound dips between the earpieces and some weird crackles in the sound. It does sound great on Android though.


How would you describe their sound relative to something like Anbes 359 and others? Did yours come with USB type C and if so does it charge with a Type C to C cable?

Maybe it's just the fact that Earfun Free has a 4-step charge indicator rather than 3-step like the Jabra, or I'm using them heavily these days, but I feel like I drain 1/4 of it each day (listening approximately 80-95% volume). Yet, I don't drain the buds much at all (after about 2 hours it's still at 80% left, though generally with TWS the last 20-40% can be useless because you will be bombarded with BATTERY LOW warnings) It isn't so much 6+24 hours battery as much as 24 hours total. Never really noticed this with Jabra Elite 65t. I haven't had any major issues with the Earfun, but the complaints in their Facebook group about defective products or failed deliveries and their lack of response doesn't inspire confidence.

Has anyone actually dealt with Anbes, Kissral or Letscom's after-service or warranty? While it seems like a grain of salt, those brands still seem more assuring than the rebrands.


----------



## DigDub

phiemon said:


> Sorry if I ask directly without to search here: Is the Sennheiser Momentum TRUE Wireless the actual best sounding Wireless IEM? Or is there a better alternative such as Bose, Sony or b&o e8 2.0?



The Sony wf-1000xm3 is probably the best to me. Excellent resolution and timbre. Effortless and realistic audio reproduction.


----------



## TYATYA

phiemon said:


> Sorry if I ask directly without to search here: Is the Sennheiser Momentum TRUE Wireless the actual best sounding Wireless IEM? Or is there a better alternative such as Bose, Sony or b&o e8 2.0?



Best sq to me is B&o E8 2.0
I no longer use ibasso it01s (with 2.5balance cable of it04) since I get E8.

New sony xm3 is more clearity but less spacious against E8.
Bass of xm3 wasn't kind of good until change the eartip (which was a cheap plastic/rubber?  in both visual& feeling).
I down vote Senn's MTW. Cant stand the bass


----------



## clerkpalmer

TYATYA said:


> Best sq to me is B&o E8 2.0
> I no longer use ibasso it01s (with 2.5balance cable of it04) since I get E8.
> 
> New sony xm3 is more clearity but less spacious against E8.
> ...



How do you all already have the new Sony?


----------



## Soreniglio

@Bartig I read your review about the QCY T3, do you think they're a good upgrade from the QCY T1C? Can I work out with them on? (My earcanals are small, so no eartips problems probably, I usually use S)

Also, I'm very tempted to bite the Edifier TWS1, but I don't wanna be burnt


----------



## HAMS

I'm curious if anyone ever confirmed if aptx improve SQ audibly? Using iPhone vs android. I know my KZ Bluetooth adapter sound better than my Trn bt20 without aptx, don't know if aptx has anything to do with it though.


----------



## DigDub

clerkpalmer said:


> How do you all already have the new Sony?


It's already available in Asia.


----------



## nc8000

clerkpalmer said:


> How do you all already have the new Sony?



It’s for sale on eGlobal, I’ve got it on the way from there


----------



## BobJS

Does anyone know if the Sony WF-1000XM3 supports LDAC like its namesake (WH-) does?


----------



## DigDub

BobJS said:


> Does anyone know if the Sony WF-1000XM3 supports LDAC like its namesake (WH-) does?


No ldac, no aptx. Only aac and sbc.


----------



## david8613

PHEW!!! I fixed my tranya t3. I did all the normal ways of resetting truewireless with no success, I have had many sets of tw so i thought it was over, But I found this video, it worked great, my tranya t3 are working perfect now! Happy! I really like these things, i didnt realize how much until they went down!!!


----------



## clerkpalmer

nc8000 said:


> It’s for sale on eGlobal, I’ve got it on the way from there


Couldn’t find them on eglobal. Apparently already available in Canada but not us.


----------



## nc8000

clerkpalmer said:


> Couldn’t find them on eglobal. Apparently already available in Canada but not us.



https://www.eglobalcentral.eu/sony-wf-1000xm3-noise-cancelling-true-wireless-headphones-black-1.html


----------



## clerkpalmer

nc8000 said:


> https://www.eglobalcentral.eu/sony-wf-1000xm3-noise-cancelling-true-wireless-headphones-black-1.html


Thanks. Is this Europe only? Any idea how long to US?


----------



## nc8000

clerkpalmer said:


> Thanks. Is this Europe only? Any idea how long to US?



Seems to be EU only, don’t know about US. Should have mine mid next week


----------



## WesennTony

Pre-ordered WF-1000xm3 from Best Buy, should be shipped by next Monday. Finger crossed.
Watch some Chinese videos comparing WF-1000xm3 with Libratone Track Air+. Seems Sony sounds better, while Air+ more comfortable to wear, and head to head for ANC.


----------



## Dcell7

clerkpalmer said:


> Thanks. Is this Europe only? Any idea how long to US?



Eglobal is based in Hong Kong so they should ship to US. They have multiple domainnames for each territory or even country but they ship their stuff from Hong Kong. Do read the warranty coverage information though. It could be very limited warranty with some items.


----------



## clerkpalmer

Dcell7 said:


> Eglobal is based in Hong Kong so they should ship to US. They have multiple domainnames for each territory or even country but they ship their stuff from Hong Kong. Do read the warranty coverage information though. It could be very limited warranty with some items.



Yeah, good point.  I want a full US warranty even if I have to wait for BB to ship them next week.


----------



## actorlife (Jul 24, 2019)

igorneumann said:


> They will instantly fall of your ear?


No se amigo. ✌️


----------



## rafaelroxalot

hifi80sman said:


> Which one?  The dual driver version?  If so, I like, not love them.  They are bassy, as expected, but they fit well, have decent call quality, and are fun to listen to.  However, they don't have the best clarity, so keep that in mind.  If you enjoy a warm sound signature, these will likely make you happy, however, for the price, you're better off going with the MPOW T5, Anbes 359, or (based on other's recommendations) the Tranya T3.



I don´t know if you ever listen to KZ Ks10, i liked so much the signature, i like a good bass, these ones that you recommended are like kz ks10? or have a good bass? they are all under 100$? i don´t like much piercing highs. thanks again


----------



## actorlife

rafaelroxalot said:


> I don´t know if you ever listen to KZ Ks10, i liked so much the signature, i like a good bass, these ones that you recommended are like kz ks10? or have a good bass? they are all under 100$? i don´t like much piercing highs. thanks again


Are you in the US?


----------



## vstolpner

blomman77 said:


> These look really nice. Similar design as Fiio FA7/1.
> 
> https://m.alibaba.com/product/62002131539/Ancreu-NEW-T2-Bluetooths-5-0.html
> 
> Available at Ali



Those look great! Do you know of any resellers of these?


----------



## clerkpalmer

vstolpner said:


> Those look great! Do you know of any resellers of these?



Crap. Do I need to cancel my order from yesterday?


----------



## actorlife (Jul 24, 2019)

vstolpner said:


> Those look great! Do you know of any resellers of these?


Got me curious too. 8-10hr battery. I'm very cautious after the Syllable S101. Hopefully the highs are better with these. We need more options for BA/Dynamic too with 10hrs come on KZ. I would spend more too if more Playtime.


----------



## actorlife

clerkpalmer said:


> Crap. Do I need to cancel my order from yesterday?


What did you order?


----------



## TontonRay (Jul 24, 2019)

vstolpner said:


> Those look great! Do you know of any resellers of these?


Here you go:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000023086416.html?spm=a2g0o.productlist.0.0.69896dc9jndcBx&algo_pvid=f29a1233-00d1-4c71-b822-ca414b606272&algo_expid=f29a1233-00d1-4c71-b822-ca414b606272-0&btsid=6af9285d-4f61-40cd-8d35-acf64d25fe00&ws_ab_test=searchweb0_0,searchweb201602_9,searchweb201603_52

I am not sure they are hybrid though.. there's no mention of it in the description, only in the product's name.


----------



## clerkpalmer

actorlife said:


> What did you order?


KZ T1


----------



## actorlife

TontonRay said:


> Here you go:
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000023086416.html?spm=a2g0o.productlist.0.0.69896dc9jndcBx&algo_pvid=f29a1233-00d1-4c71-b822-ca414b606272&algo_expid=f29a1233-00d1-4c71-b822-ca414b606272-0&btsid=6af9285d-4f61-40cd-8d35-acf64d25fe00&ws_ab_test=searchweb0_0,searchweb201602_9,searchweb201603_52


OH no(head bent over) way over my sniff budget. Thanks for the link thou. Beautiful blue dang.


----------



## vstolpner

TontonRay said:


> Here you go:
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000023086416.html?spm=a2g0o.productlist.0.0.69896dc9jndcBx&algo_pvid=f29a1233-00d1-4c71-b822-ca414b606272&algo_expid=f29a1233-00d1-4c71-b822-ca414b606272-0&btsid=6af9285d-4f61-40cd-8d35-acf64d25fe00&ws_ab_test=searchweb0_0,searchweb201602_9,searchweb201603_52



Damn, that ain't cheap!! That's at least a 40%-60% markup!


----------



## vstolpner

actorlife said:


> OH no(head bent over) way over my sniff budget. Thanks for the link thou. Beautiful blue dang.


Maybe we can get enough of us for a minimum order of 1000 pieces at $60? LOL


----------



## actorlife

clerkpalmer said:


> KZ T1


Noooooooooo. Unless you're finally getting the 359 from the Zon.


----------



## TontonRay

Don't think the Ancreu ones are hybrid. there's no mention of it in the description.


----------



## actorlife

vstolpner said:


> Maybe we can get enough of us for a minimum order of 1000 pieces at $60? LOL


I can't even do $60 right now. Though I'd pay that if... Why do I put myself in these situations. Egag. So many options. It's exciting I tell ya. My love of technology is my downfall. I'm OK.


----------



## rafaelroxalot

actorlife said:


> Are you in the US?


Brazil


----------



## rafaelroxalot

If someone could help me with these CHIFI.
Which ones has the better bass? i don´t think i am a bass head, but liked too much kz ks10 signature. 
I´m in Brazil. better buy from ali or chinese sites...
Tranya is available where? only in there website or amazon or elsewhere?
thanks again


----------



## actorlife (Jul 24, 2019)

rafaelroxalot said:


> Brazil


OK first of all I love Brazilian music. My favs Marisa Monte, Maria Rita, Nilson Matta, etc. Can you get the Anbes 359, Kissral R18, hopshoop W1, on amazon or ebay or AliExpress? All have very good treble and bass. Love KZ and I think you will like what I suggested. Check my sig for my top 4 TWS Click here


----------



## actorlife

d3myz said:


> Do you know what time the T5's are going on sale?


Come on man where is the review?


----------



## vstolpner (Jul 24, 2019)

rafaelroxalot said:


> If someone could help me with these CHIFI.
> Which ones has the better bass? i don´t think i am a bass head, but liked too much kz ks10 signature.
> I´m in Brazil. better buy from ali or chinese sites...
> Tranya is available where? only in there website or amazon or elsewhere?
> thanks again



Tanya T3 would be your best bet, but might be hard to find in Brazil - I believe someone mentioned the site on here (tranya.com I think?)

Tiso i4 is pushing basshead territory but the price is great and should be easily available to you, and with Anbes 359/Kissral R18 you might need to push EQ just a little if you really like base (if you can even find the original ones).

That said, all 3 are great, fine think you'd be wrong with any of them. See my signature for reviews

Edit: forgot about the Astrotec Motivation/S80 actually.... Those are great too but on the more expensive side unless you can order from Amazon.com where they're significantly cheaper than AliExpress.


----------



## Slater

TontonRay said:


> Here you go:
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000023086416.html?spm=a2g0o.productlist.0.0.69896dc9jndcBx&algo_pvid=f29a1233-00d1-4c71-b822-ca414b606272&algo_expid=f29a1233-00d1-4c71-b822-ca414b606272-0&btsid=6af9285d-4f61-40cd-8d35-acf64d25fe00&ws_ab_test=searchweb0_0,searchweb201602_9,searchweb201603_52
> 
> I am not sure they are hybrid though.. there's no mention of it in the description, only in the product's name.





actorlife said:


> OH no(head bent over) way over my sniff budget. Thanks for the link thou. Beautiful blue dang.



Wow, those are nice looking.

If the body is solid resin, I wonder how the touch controls work? Are they clicky buttons?


----------



## actorlife

These seem to be a popular look: https://m.it.aliexpress.com/item/33...d=8737amp-9FZ2ADpsHg_0nMftBUeneg1563991942442


----------



## Caipirina

rafaelroxalot said:


> I don´t know if you ever listen to KZ Ks10, i liked so much the signature, i like a good bass, these ones that you recommended are like kz ks10? or have a good bass? they are all under 100$? i don´t like much piercing highs. thanks again



Thought I know pretty much all KZ models. But ks10 is new to me. I would say typo, but you are very consistent at calling your fav SQ buds the KZ ks10 ... what is that mythical rebranding?


----------



## actorlife

TontonRay said:


> Here you go:
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000023086416.html?spm=a2g0o.productlist.0.0.69896dc9jndcBx&algo_pvid=f29a1233-00d1-4c71-b822-ca414b606272&algo_expid=f29a1233-00d1-4c71-b822-ca414b606272-0&btsid=6af9285d-4f61-40cd-8d35-acf64d25fe00&ws_ab_test=searchweb0_0,searchweb201602_9,searchweb201603_52
> 
> I am not sure they are hybrid though.. there's no mention of it in the description, only in the product's name.


Are u gonna buy them?


----------



## d3myz

Man, catching up is a pain. LOL. So I got the Funcl W1 from amazon, and it's really comfortable, controls are kind of weird, build quality isn't great, but not bad. but the sound? I mean, it's got a wide sound stage and good bass, but the mids and highs are super veiled. no sparkle at all, they kind of sound muffled to me. I tried a couple different tips. Then I put my T3's in and was like WOW!! and then the T5 and even more wow.. I can't believe how amazing the T5 is. Sorry Funcl, for $30 on prime day, even the I4, TS2/TC1 beats you. maybe i need to burn them in, but no volume control just kills me, so they are going back unless any of you gents want to take them off my hands for $30 plus shipping. I'm in the Western US.


----------



## d3myz

I have these  Back Bay Audios coming soon, They look like a re-branded Tranya T1 pro, which i really liked, but just not as much as the T3.


----------



## Bartig

FYLegend said:


> When I asked, they just replied "yes"and when I asked for a photo they said "Please wait, we will shoot you later."
> 
> I've seen 3 different rebrands that are circling about. Not sure if they all differ in volume control.
> Letscom BE30 - Although Letscom seemed like a pretty respectable rebrand as it's listed on Amazon, it is possible the newer Aliexpress shipments might just have their name stamped on.
> ...


I listened to them on Android mostly, which isn't a problem, but I have ten times more testing hours on iPhone, so I don't want to compare them to others just yet. What I can say is that they sound on the brighter, more balanced side, with a present but definitely not overpowering bass.



Soreniglio said:


> @Bartig I read your review about the QCY T3, do you think they're a good upgrade from the QCY T1C? Can I work out with them on? (My earcanals are small, so no eartips problems probably, I usually use S)
> 
> Also, I'm very tempted to bite the Edifier TWS1, but I don't wanna be burnt


Yes, sonically, the T3 is a step up from the T1c. Yet it retains its balanced signature. For this price, I didn't even know it was possible.



HAMS said:


> I'm curious if anyone ever confirmed if aptx improve SQ audibly? Using iPhone vs android. I know my KZ Bluetooth adapter sound better than my Trn bt20 without aptx, don't know if aptx has anything to do with it though.


Well, I haven't. Listen mostly on iPhone X and Xiaomi Mi A1 though.


----------



## Bartig

d3myz said:


> I have these  Back Bay Audios coming soon, They look like a re-branded Tranya T1 pro, which i really liked, but just not as much as the T3.


Curious for your impressions, as the case design resembles the Anomoibuds Capsule. Which sound great for 20 dollar, by the way.


----------



## TontonRay

actorlife said:


> Are u gonna buy them?


Definitely not. Way above what I'm willing to pay for a pair of TWS earphones.


----------



## actorlife

d3myz said:


> Man, catching up is a pain. LOL. So I got the Funcl W1 from amazon, and it's really comfortable, controls are kind of weird, build quality isn't great, but not bad. but the sound? I mean, it's got a wide sound stage and good bass, but the mids and highs are super veiled. no sparkle at all, they kind of sound muffled to me. I tried a couple different tips. Then I put my T3's in and was like WOW!! and then the T5 and even more wow.. I can't believe how amazing the T5 is. Sorry Funcl, for $30 on prime day, even the I4, TS2/TC1 beats you. maybe i need to burn them in, but no volume control just kills me, so they are going back unless any of you gents want to take them off my hands for $30 plus shipping. I'm in the Western US.



No sparkle? No way maybe you're getting a bad fit. No veil here. Clean that wax man. Yep told you no volume control. I haven't used them in a couple weeks gonna listen later. I edit this when I hear them. I got sparkle a plenty a couple weeks back.


----------



## actorlife

Caipirina said:


> Thought I know pretty much all KZ models. But ks10 is new to me. I would say typo, but you are very consistent at calling your fav SQ buds the KZ ks10 ... what is that mythical rebranding?


They send out your T1?


----------



## d3myz

BobJS said:


> Let's tell it like it is.  Most of these are junk.  The only ones worth getting are:
> 
> 1. MW07
> 2. Bose Free Soundsport
> ...


I have to ask, what tips are you using on the MPOW T5? the stock tips sound like garbage, with my Spiral Dots they are some of the best TWS' i've heard.


----------



## igorneumann

rafaelroxalot said:


> If someone could help me with these CHIFI.
> Which ones has the better bass? i don´t think i am a bass head, but liked too much kz ks10 signature.
> I´m in Brazil. better buy from ali or chinese sites...
> Tranya is available where? only in there website or amazon or elsewhere?
> thanks again



Hey, another Brazilian here!

I would wait a bit until August 13th or something and check the KZ reviews here.

Its very cheap, looks amazing and probably will sound very good, if they keep their highs in check.

But its being called a "public beta" and KZ is known for messing up sometimes, hence saying to wait.

Well, that is, if you dont plan to buy more than 1.

Abraços


----------



## SuperLuigi

Thought that was an interesting youtube video.  Was just relased by a popular youtuber, linus tech tips.  They bought 50 truewireless headphones and pick there top 4.  One of the top picks is g-wack.  This: https://www.amazon.com/Bluetooth-Headphones-Microphone-Sweatproof-Earphones/dp/B07H6FNX77

I assume that's a rebrand.  Any one know of what?


----------



## hifi80sman

rafaelroxalot said:


> If someone could help me with these CHIFI.
> Which ones has the better bass? i don´t think i am a bass head, but liked too much kz ks10 signature.
> I´m in Brazil. better buy from ali or chinese sites...
> Tranya is available where? only in there website or amazon or elsewhere?
> thanks again


Based on what you describe, it sounds like you'd be very happy with the Tranya T3.  I haven't tried it, but the reviews and feedback here are virtually unanimous.  Big bass, but still captures the other frequencies nicely.


----------



## Boreaquis (Jul 24, 2019)

SuperLuigi said:


> Thought that was an interesting youtube video.  Was just relased by a popular youtuber, linus tech tips.  They bought 50 truewireless headphones and pick there top 4.  One of the top picks is g-wack.  This: https://www.amazon.com/Bluetooth-Headphones-Microphone-Sweatproof-Earphones/dp/B07H6FNX77
> 
> I assume that's a rebrand.  Any one know of what?




#2 on the list (Raycon E50) is almost certainly a rebrand of the Nillkin Go. Raycon seems to be ones of those companies that release rebranded Chinese TWS at a massive markup.

Still waiting for mine, but this is definitely promising.

EDIT: Pretty sure I've seen the "g-wack" under a different brand in this thread.


----------



## Slater

SuperLuigi said:


> One of the top picks is g-wack.  This: https://www.amazon.com/Bluetooth-Headphones-Microphone-Sweatproof-Earphones/dp/B07H6FNX77
> 
> I assume that's a rebrand.  Any one know of what?



That name is whack, G


----------



## hifi80sman

d3myz said:


> Man, catching up is a pain. LOL. So I got the Funcl W1 from amazon, and it's really comfortable, controls are kind of weird, build quality isn't great, but not bad. but the sound? I mean, it's got a wide sound stage and good bass, but the mids and highs are super veiled. no sparkle at all, they kind of sound muffled to me. I tried a couple different tips. Then I put my T3's in and was like WOW!! and then the T5 and even more wow.. I can't believe how amazing the T5 is. Sorry Funcl, for $30 on prime day, even the I4, TS2/TC1 beats you. maybe i need to burn them in, but no volume control just kills me, so they are going back unless any of you gents want to take them off my hands for $30 plus shipping. I'm in the Western US.


Thanks for taking the plunge.  I was wondering about those, but it looks like they're no-FUNcl.


----------



## aristofeles

hifi80sman said:


> Based on what you describe, it sounds like you'd be very happy with the Tranya T3.  I haven't tried it, but the reviews and feedback here are virtually unanimous.  Big bass, but still captures the other frequencies nicely.



Maybe stupid question, but is this the same as the "Awei T3", with can be easily found on aliexpress?


----------



## d3myz

actorlife said:


> No sparkle? No way maybe you're getting a bad fit. No veil here. Clean that wax man. Yep told you no volume control. I haven't used them in a couple weeks gonna listen later. I edit this when I hear them. I got sparkle a plenty a couple weeks back.



I just pulled them out again. to listen with a fresh set of ears, and compared them to the 359, T3 and T5 they are more similar to the 359, there is some def. sparkle in the high end, but where the 359 really excels past the funcl is in mid range definition and a slightly larger soundstage. it's most notable for me with guitars, the mids in the Funcl seem a little recessed and muffled. I have to say though, on my second listen you were definitely right, these things are pretty dang good, especially for $30.  I'd say for $30 they could be a keeper. I don't like the touch control and the weird controls, so i'm probably going to get rid of them.


----------



## vstolpner

aristofeles said:


> Maybe stupid question, but is this the same as the "Awei T3", with can be easily found on aliexpress?



But sure if it sounds similar or not, but they look different - the case, the earphones, they all look different


----------



## actorlife

aristofeles said:


> Maybe stupid question, but is this the same as the "Awei T3", with can be easily found on aliexpress?


Awei makes some good sounding stuff. Which Awei TWS is currently the best reviewed?


----------



## actorlife

d3myz said:


> I just pulled them out again. to listen with a fresh set of ears, and compared them to the 359, T3 and T5 they are more similar to the 359, there is some def. sparkle in the high end, but where the 359 really excels past the funcl is in mid range definition and a slightly larger soundstage. it's most notable for me with guitars, the mids in the Funcl seem a little recessed and muffled. I have to say though, on my second listen you were definitely right, these things are pretty dang good, especially for $30.  I'd say for $30 they could be a keeper. I don't like the touch control and the weird controls, so i'm probably going to get rid of them.


Weird maybe u got a bad pair. I'll check mine. My Funcl don't have a large soundstage, but I swear Chris Stapleton's in his live version of I Was Wrong voice sounds clear in the mids. I'll check later.


----------



## FYLegend

Can someone confirm whether Sabbat E12, Lypertek Tevi, YTOM T1 support PD charging? Out of my three type-C TWS, only Earfun Free charges via PD. For me it isn't an issue since I mainly use Type C to A cables but it's less ideal otherwise. If your TWS can't support Type C to Type C charging, it should still charge if you get a Type A to C adapter (such as the one bundled with Samsung phones) on the power source end (not reversible).

Wireless charging is nice, but the fact that many of these are designed for < 5W charging means I don't use it as much as I'd like to, since they either won't charge or run hot with a 10W charger (which I much prefer, since my phone can support that). I don't have the Galaxy Buds but I assume it has wider compatibility than Astrotec S60 or Earfun Free for Qi charging...



SuperLuigi said:


> Thought that was an interesting youtube video.  Was just relased by a popular youtuber, linus tech tips.  They bought 50 truewireless headphones and pick there top 4.  One of the top picks is g-wack.  This: https://www.amazon.com/Bluetooth-Headphones-Microphone-Sweatproof-Earphones/dp/B07H6FNX77
> 
> I assume that's a rebrand.  Any one know of what?



Quite a mediocre list... No UFO TWS, and I lost it when he threw out respectable ones like Mifo O5 over controls.


Has anyone tried these? Charges with Type C and looks reminescent of Jabra 65t but also has single-ear use with both buds. Someone on the LTT video's comments recommended them. On Aliexpress I see it listed as PIHEN G5, but not sure what else it goes by (one listing claimed it has AptX).
https://www.amazon.com/Wireless-Bluetooth-Headphones-Microphone-Case（Black）/dp/B07M99NTQ5


----------



## vstolpner

SuperLuigi said:


> Thought that was an interesting youtube video.  Was just relased by a popular youtuber, linus tech tips.  They bought 50 truewireless headphones and pick there top 4.  One of the top picks is g-wack.  This: https://www.amazon.com/Bluetooth-Headphones-Microphone-Sweatproof-Earphones/dp/B07H6FNX77
> 
> I assume that's a rebrand.  Any one know of what?




Damn, I really like this channel, but they don't have any of the ones we're really suggesting on here....
Tranya T3, Anbes 359, Nillkin Go (though Raycons are likely a rebrand), and they eliminated the mifo O5 without even mentioning which version or trying the sound quality....

I applaud their efforts for doing this, but just picking the top X best sellers is not research, and since they're trying to recommend the best, I'd have liked to see more thrown in from actual recommendations....

Any of you guys going to buy the ones they suggested?


----------



## vstolpner

FYLegend said:


> Can someone confirm whether Sabbat E12, Lypertek Tevi, YTOM T1 support PD charging? Out of my three type-C TWS, only Earfun Free charges via PD. For me it isn't an issue since I mainly use Type C to A cables but it's less ideal otherwise. If your TWS can't support Type C to Type C charging, it should still charge if you get a Type A to C adapter (such as the one bundled with Samsung phones) on the power source end (not reversible).
> 
> Wireless charging is nice, but the fact that many of these are designed for < 5W charging means I don't use it as much as I'd like to, since they either won't charge or run hot with a 10W charger (which I much prefer, since my phone can support that). I don't have the Galaxy Buds but I assume it has wider compatibility than Astrotec S60 or Earfun Free for Qi charging...
> 
> ...


Looks like we had the same feelings about this at the same time lol


----------



## actorlife

FYLegend said:


> Can someone confirm whether Sabbat E12, Lypertek Tevi, YTOM T1 support PD charging? Out of my three type-C TWS, only Earfun Free charges via PD. For me it isn't an issue since I mainly use Type C to A cables but it's less ideal otherwise. If your TWS can't support Type C to Type C charging, it should still charge if you get a Type A to C adapter (such as the one bundled with Samsung phones) on the power source end (not reversible).
> 
> Wireless charging is nice, but the fact that many of these are designed for < 5W charging means I don't use it as much as I'd like to, since they either won't charge or run hot with a 10W charger (which I much prefer, since my phone can support that). I don't have the Galaxy Buds but I assume it has wider compatibility than Astrotec S60 or Earfun Free for Qi charging...
> 
> ...


Those look good for $21. 7hr battery too. U should try them I would, but can't.


----------



## actorlife

vstolpner said:


> Looks like we had the same feelings about this at the same time lol


I've never bought anything recommended by those guys I'd rather buy blindly to get better deals. I do watch most reviews though, but was never influenced by them. Except for IEMs and headphones sometimes.


----------



## rafaelroxalot

Caipirina said:


> Thought I know pretty much all KZ models. But ks10 is new to me. I would say typo, but you are very consistent at calling your fav SQ buds the KZ ks10 ... what is that mythical rebranding?


Sorry lol 
ZS10 not KS10 LOL
my mistake


----------



## d3myz

actorlife said:


> Weird maybe u got a bad pair. I'll check mine. My Funcl don't have a large soundstage, but I swear Chris Stapleton's in his live version of I Was Wrong voice sounds clear in the mids. I'll check later.


The immediate tell for me is audiobooks, the midrange is a bit muffled and I have a playlist with a bunch of different genres of music. For lack of a better term, it sounds like the high or treble of the mid isn't there. but there's not much low mid either, not terrible, but it's like that one adjustment could really make these a contender. other than the stupid controls and the super sensitive touch.


----------



## actorlife

d3myz said:


> The immediate tell for me is audiobooks, the midrange is a bit muffled and I have a playlist with a bunch of different genres of music. For lack of a better term, it sounds like the high or treble of the mid isn't there. but there's not much low mid either, not terrible, but it's like that one adjustment could really make these a contender. other than the stupid controls and the super sensitive touch.


I still say burn-in for a week and if nothing happens return them and get a replacement. Does not sound like the pair I have for sure.


----------



## jant71 (Jul 24, 2019)

https://www.amazon.com/Back-Bay-Swe...ack+Bay+Audio&qid=1564005170&s=gateway&sr=8-3

Can't believe they didn't put their EQ in this. Looks solid and has aptX, volume control, decent battery but they could have had something special with their well tuned EQ presets. Still this may sound good. The wired BB product I had before was the best sounding BT item I have heard.

Edit: I took one for the team especially after I saw one of the reviews mentioned a WirelessJuly code that takes $9 off the price. $39 with the tax for me.


----------



## rafaelroxalot

Has anyone bought the Tranya t3 from this website?
https://www.tranya.com/
went all well?


----------



## d3myz

jant71 said:


> https://www.amazon.com/Back-Bay-Swe...ack+Bay+Audio&qid=1564005170&s=gateway&sr=8-3
> 
> Can't believe they didn't put their EQ in this. Looks solid and has aptX, volume control, decent battery but they could have had something special with their well tuned EQ presets. Still this may sound good. The wired BB product I had before was the best sounding BT item I have heard.
> 
> Edit: I took one for the team especially after I saw one of the reviews mentioned a WirelessJuly code that takes $9 off the price. $39 with the tax.



I bought these on prime day and i'm still waiting for them to arrive. I paid the full $45 though. Just used the code and it brought the price down to $35. Looks like i'm returning a pair. Thanks for the code, i'm excited to use them!


----------



## jant71 (Jul 24, 2019)

d3myz said:


> I bought these on prime day and i'm still waiting for them to arrive. I paid the full $45 though. Just used the code and it brought the price down to $35. Looks like i'm returning a pair. Thanks for the code, i'm excited to use them!



The reviews, if you trust them, are mentioning good sound so I hope they come through again here. I still remember that last pairs sound but the connection was pretty crap for me. The guy I sold them too was like What! and was as impressed with the sound as I was. Worth the shot at under $40 even though I had to pay tax but with Prime they will be here on Friday. Hopefully we are both quite pleased with them. 

Got the controls...
*Each earbud has one button that is super easy to control! *
*Pause/Play - Tap either earbud. *
*Raise Volume- Double tap right bud. Lower Volume - Double tap left bud. *
*Skip Song - Hold right bud. Previous Song - Hold Left Bud. *
*Activate Voice Assistant - Triple Tap*


----------



## rafaelroxalot

These blitzwolf fye 5 - 7 are very worse than these recommended? Tranya t3, anbes 359 and the other one?


----------



## actorlife

jant71 said:


> https://www.amazon.com/Back-Bay-Swe...ack+Bay+Audio&qid=1564005170&s=gateway&sr=8-3
> 
> Can't believe they didn't put their EQ in this. Looks solid and has aptX, volume control, decent battery but they could have had something special with their well tuned EQ presets. Still this may sound good. The wired BB product I had before was the best sounding BT item I have heard.
> 
> Edit: I took one for the team especially after I saw one of the reviews mentioned a WirelessJuly code that takes $9 off the price. $39 with the tax for me.


Real curios to hear your thoughts. 8hr battery too heck yeah.


----------



## actorlife (Jul 24, 2019)

rafaelroxalot said:


> These blitzwolf fye 5 - 7 are very worse than these recommended? Tranya t3, anbes 359 and the other one?


Get both. Always good to have a spare. Right guys? I've never tried the blitzwolf.


----------



## HiFlight

My Back Bay Duet 50 is due to arrive tomorrow or Friday.  It will be interesting to see if they live up to their great reviews.


----------



## rafaelroxalot

actorlife said:


> Get both. Always good to have a spare. Right guys? I've never tried the blitzwolf.


Here in Brazil many have these blitz wolf fye 3-7 versions, but anyone that i saw has tranya t3 to compare...
Dollar price is to high today here in brazil i can't get many earphones... need to be the best one for the price...


----------



## actorlife (Jul 24, 2019)

rafaelroxalot said:


> Here in Brazil many have these blitz wolf fye 3-7 versions, but anyone that i saw has tranya t3 to compare...
> Dollar price is to high today here in brazil i can't get many earphones... need to be the best one for the price...


Try Amazon easy return policy. Anbes, Tranya Mpow are best for bass and clear treble budget wise.


----------



## rafaelroxalot

Any of you tried tranya t3 and that hyped pamu slide? To tell the differences in sound?


----------



## Gokuz

Someone should fire this guy, 

I thought he would make a good video based on what we are discussing but nope, he just randomly buying crap. Heck, he could use @scarbir reviews as a base point.


----------



## vstolpner

Gokuz said:


> Someone should fire this guy,
> 
> I thought he would make a good video based on what we are discussing but nope, he just randomly buying ****. Heck, he could use @scarbir reviews as a base point.




I actually commented something along those lines in the video.... I thought they typically had good quality videos (and information therein), but I'm starting to doubt that.


----------



## d3myz

jant71 said:


> The reviews, if you trust them, are mentioning good sound so I hope they come through again here. I still remember that last pairs sound but the connection was pretty crap for me. The guy I sold them too was like What! and was as impressed with the sound as I was. Worth the shot at under $40 even though I had to pay tax but with Prime they will be here on Friday. Hopefully we are both quite pleased with them.
> 
> Got the controls...
> *Each earbud has one button that is super easy to control!
> ...



Well, I sure appreciate the coupon code and Back Bay Audio. I've been on a bender this last two weeks and wanting to buy and try everything that looks remotely good. 
I look forward to your thoughts on them. The Controls are identical to the MPOW T5. I wouldn't be surprised if the Duet's have the same QCC3026 chipset or another one in the qualcomm 30xx series.


----------



## Caipirina

actorlife said:


> They send out your T1?


They did! Now let’s see how long it will take to my evil tropical island lair.


----------



## vstolpner

Caipirina said:


> They did! Now let’s see how long it will take to my evil tropical island lair.



If only they could use Amazon delivery.... Or SpaceX... Might be a little warm, but you'd have it already!


----------



## igorneumann (Jul 25, 2019)

Ok, I just killed my TFZ X1...

Someone said about showering with it and i thought "that sounds like a interesting idea", DONT DO IT.

The right side started to sound way lower than the left, probably water blocking its screen, shoot some compressed air at it and it got better, the next day (today) it still sounding way lower than the left channel and the bass is cracking.

Bought it in Ebay and the return time has passed, lets see what the seller say, otherwise I see myself buying another one in amazon just to swap and return.


----------



## FYLegend

Bad news about the Earfun free. The right bud stopped playing sounds. The only thing I can think of is that that they fell out of my hands onto the case/my wooden table, less than 10 centimeters. It's ridiculous to think it can't even survive a fall like that.


----------



## TontonRay

Just came back from the post office with the Mpow T5 and Tiso i4.

Really impressed with the T5. Keep comparing it to the Anbes 359 (or whatever rebrand..) and it's hard to decide which one I like better.
The bass on the T5 is stronger, more pronounced. The Anbes are a little more balanced to my ears and they are somewhat brighter. 
Actorlife, you really struck gold with these Anbes. I'm only bummed that with my pair the battery life is mediocre, 3 hours tops.

Now the Tiso is a real disappointment. Bass is way to heavy and muddy that it drowns everything out. Been trying to tune it down with an equalizer which makes 
them a little better but still there's something in the overall sound that kind of hurts my ears. Can't put my finger on it. A real pity because they are the most comfortable TWS I have and I love the form factor and the buttons. Maybe I'll try to burn them in a little.


----------



## Peterpanic

AnakChan said:


> So the cable does have memory wire & it fits around my glasses fine without too much interference.


So do you have any more thoughts regarding the tm2 connected to the fitears? 
Anxiously waiting for mine to pair it with the mh334


----------



## snip3r77

TontonRay said:


> Just came back from the post office with the Mpow T5 and Tiso i4.
> 
> Really impressed with the T5. Keep comparing it to the Anbes 359 (or whatever rebrand..) and it's hard to decide which one I like better.
> The bass on the T5 is stronger, more pronounced. The Anbes are a little more balanced to my ears and they are somewhat brighter.
> ...



Does T5 has a better battery life ?
Is it too bassy or ok? How is the size as compared to 359 ? More comfy ?


----------



## TontonRay

snip3r77 said:


> Does T5 has a better battery life ?
> Is it too bassy or ok? How is the size as compared to 359 ? More comfy ?



They are claiming 5 hours but haven't been able to verify it yet.
It's not too bassy, has a nice full bass.
They definitely stick out more because they are bigger but they are fairly comfortable, maybe a tad less than the 359.


----------



## Bartig

actorlife said:


> Awei makes some good sounding stuff. Which Awei TWS is currently the best reviewed?


Oof, you think so? I've tried three Awei models and those were the most bassy muddy chifi items I've heard so far.



Gokuz said:


> Someone should fire this guy,
> 
> I thought he would make a good video based on what we are discussing but nope, he just randomly buying ****. Heck, he could use @scarbir reviews as a base point.



Whoah! <3


----------



## BobJS

d3myz said:


> I have to ask, what tips are you using on the MPOW T5? the stock tips sound like garbage, with my Spiral Dots they are some of the best TWS' i've heard.



I think it was stock, but not sure ... I'll check when I get home.


----------



## igorneumann

igorneumann said:


> Ok, I just killed my TFZ X1...
> 
> Someone said about showering with it and i thought "that sounds like a interesting idea", DONT DO IT.
> 
> ...



Awesome! 

The seller (wsz0304, I hope Im allowed to mention him) offered either a replacement or a full refund... Even if I already evaluated it positively and the product has arrived on June15 (more than a month ago)

Im glad I bought it from a good seller.


----------



## Caipirina

rafaelroxalot said:


> These blitzwolf fye 5 - 7 are very worse than these recommended? Tranya t3, anbes 359 and the other one?


I have the fye5 and like them quite some. I have yet to find the perfect tips that then will still fit into the case. I think with better fit / tips they could be in my top tier of TWE. Though I can’t really put my finger on ‘why’.  Overall really nice I guess


----------



## vstolpner

TontonRay said:


> Just came back from the post office with the Mpow T5 and Tiso i4.
> 
> Really impressed with the T5. Keep comparing it to the Anbes 359 (or whatever rebrand..) and it's hard to decide which one I like better.
> The bass on the T5 is stronger, more pronounced. The Anbes are a little more balanced to my ears and they are somewhat brighter.
> ...



Yeah I found the Tiso i4 to be very much basshead territory. That level of base kept me from turning up the volume too much, but I didn't find it too muddy though. I did notice that some male speech was a little boomier than it should be


----------



## rafaelroxalot

Caipirina said:


> I have the fye5 and like them quite some. I have yet to find the perfect tips that then will still fit into the case. I think with better fit / tips they could be in my top tier of TWE. Though I can’t really put my finger on ‘why’.  Overall really nice I guess


You have zs10 from kz? The fye5 is like it?
Have you tried tranya t3 too?


----------



## rafaelroxalot

vstolpner said:


> Yeah I found the Tiso i4 to be very much basshead territory. That level of base kept me from turning up the volume too much, but I didn't find it too muddy though. I did notice that some male speech was a little boomier than it should be


Tiso i4 has a good volume?


----------



## rafaelroxalot

I don't know if i get Tranya T3 or that Pamu Slide that everybody are talking about.... hype? No one has that one from indiegogo?


----------



## Boreaquis

rafaelroxalot said:


> I don't know if i get Tranya T3 or that Pamu Slide that everybody are talking about.... hype? No one has that one from indiegogo?



I think someone mentioned the Slide in here. Give it a search. If I recall correctly, they weren't too impressed.


----------



## Slater

Caipirina said:


> They did! Now let’s see how long it will take to my evil tropical island lair.





vstolpner said:


> If only they could use Amazon delivery.... Or SpaceX... Might be a little warm, but you'd have it already!


----------



## TontonRay (Jul 25, 2019)

Been playing around with the Tiso i4 and encountered something strange. I've discovered that when I'm connected to my phone or tablet (both Xiaomi and BT 5.0)
there's some kind of a harsh background noise which distorts whatever I'm listening to to the point that it's really unpleasant (even though it's very subtle). Whenever I connect them to my laptop or an older Samsung (Galaxy S3), both of which have a lower BT version, it totally disappears and the sound is actually quite enjoyable. Can it be the fault of the BT version? I haven't encountered this problem with any of my other earphones. I tried playing around with the bluetooth settings in developer options but nothing. Very strange.. Any ideas/advice? TIA


----------



## Caipirina

Slater said:


>


Actually, I am not back at my lair yet, but should be a few days before China mail may arrive. Let’s see if I can lose weight like that until then


----------



## albau (Jul 25, 2019)

snip3r77 said:


> Does T5 has a better battery life ?
> Is it too bassy or ok? How is the size as compared to 359 ? More comfy ?


I have both T5 and 359. Both sound different but excellent unless you switch to them immediately after MW07 which I mainly use. By "excellent" I mean in the vein of 65t but with wider soundstage and more forward mids with better clarity. Treble is more or less the same between all three (T5, 359 and 65t) meaning ok but nothing exciting. T5 sound more energetic thanks to a a little more pronounced bump in mid-bass but 359 are more balanced in overall signature. T5 last on a charge the longest, 5 hours at least. 359 and 65t lag somewhere around 4 hour mark (don't get me started on MW07's dismal 2.5 hours!). With fit I had most problems with MW07 resorting to SpinFits CP100Z-L. All the rest are fine for my ears with their stock tips (large for 359 and 65t, medium for T5). Speaking of stock tips - T5  have the best with solid core and nicely textured soft silicone. Very exclusive. No discomfort with any of them but T5 are HUGE to my liking, they stick out and I can constantly feel them in my ears. 359 are the best in this respect, they almost disappear in my ears, literally and sensually, weigh nothing and stay put. When it comes to charging cases I must designate T5 and 65t as the worst but for different reasons. Former because it's HUGE, unwieldy and feels cheap, latter because it simply feels cheap and doesn't have magnetic guides. Functionally 65t wins hands down - best mic, best control scheme, auto pause, transparent mode, firmware updates, app with EQ. Next comes MW07 which misses only on firmware updates, transparent mode and the app. Both have excellent control schemes and thank god well sorted real buttons that do not jam into the ears. T5 and 359 are minimal and in in terms of fanciness both have only vol control, with T5 having it very inconveniently implemented. All but 359 seem like they came from the real company and not from the travelling circus. Which besides other things reflected in how badly they are made. Even T5 though looking and feeling cheap, still gives a solid and well put impression. I think I posted more than on 2 cents. Like 5.


----------



## vstolpner

rafaelroxalot said:


> Tiso i4 has a good volume?



Yeah it gets very loud. Check my review (link in signature)


----------



## d3myz

TontonRay said:


> Just came back from the post office with the Mpow T5 and Tiso i4.
> 
> Really impressed with the T5. Keep comparing it to the Anbes 359 (or whatever rebrand..) and it's hard to decide which one I like better.
> The bass on the T5 is stronger, more pronounced. The Anbes are a little more balanced to my ears and they are somewhat brighter.
> ...


If you aren't already, try some wide bore tips and give them some time to burn in. I felt the same way when I got mine, but now I love them and use them almost every day for audio books and carrying them around in my pocket. If i'm listening to music, I prefer the T5 or T3.


----------



## igorneumann

rafaelroxalot said:


> You have zs10 from kz? The fye5 is like it?
> Have you tried tranya t3 too?



Like the ZS10? (Pro?)
I dont think we are there yet...


----------



## TontonRay

d3myz said:


> If you aren't already, try some wide bore tips and give them some time to burn in. I felt the same way when I got mine, but now I love them and use them almost every day for audio books and carrying them around in my pocket. If i'm listening to music, I prefer the T5 or T3.


Thanks for the tip.


----------



## d3myz

albau said:


> I have both T5 and 359. Both sound different but excellent unless you switch to them immediately after MW07 which I mainly use. By "excellent" I mean in the vein of 65t but with wider soundstage and more forward mids with better clarity. Treble is more or less the same between all three (T5, 359 and 65t) meaning ok but nothing exciting. T5 sound more energetic thanks to a a little more pronounced bump in mid-bass but 359 are more balanced in overall signature. T5 last on a charge the longest, 5 hours at least. 359 and 65t lag somewhere around 4 hour mark (don't get me started on MW07's dismal 2.5 hours!). With fit I had most problems with MW07 resorting to SpinFits CP100Z-L. All the rest are fine for my ears with their stock tips (large for 359 and 65t, medium for T5). Speaking of stock tips - T5  have the best with solid core and nicely textured soft silicone. Very exclusive. No discomfort with any of them but T5 are HUGE to my liking, they stick out and I can constantly feel them in my ears. 359 are the best in this respect, they almost disappear in my ears, literally and sensually, weigh nothing and stay put. When it comes to charging cases I must designate T5 and 65t as the worst but for different reasons. Former because it's HUGE, unwieldy and feels cheap, latter because it simply feels cheap and doesn't have magnetic guides. Functionally 65t wins hands down - best mic, best control scheme, auto pause, transparent mode, firmware updates, app with EQ. Next comes MW07 which misses only on firmware updates, transparent mode and the app. Both have excellent control schemes and thank god well sorted real buttons that do not jam into the ears. T5 and 359 are minimal and in in terms of fanciness both have only vol control, with T5 having it very inconveniently implemented. All but 359 seem like they came from the real company and not from the travelling circus. Which besides other things reflected in how badly they are made. Even T5 though looking and feeling cheap, still gives a solid and well put impression. I think I posted more than on 2 cents. Like 5.



Great impressions! I really appreciate the comparison.  I'd just add that the t5 is damn near waterproof, I shower with them regularly, but I'm not a big fan of the fit. The tips they come, while high quality made the buds sound abysmal to me. I switched to s/m JVC Spiral Dots it was a game changer.


----------



## vstolpner

TontonRay said:


> Been playing around with the Tiso i4 and encountered something strange. I've discovered that when I'm connected to my phone or tablet (both Xiaomi and BT 5.0)
> there's some kind of a harsh background noise which distorts whatever I'm listening to to the point that it's really unpleasant (even though it's very subtle). Whenever I connect them to my laptop or an older Samsung (Galaxy S3), both of which have a lower BT version, it totally disappears and the sound is actually quite enjoyable. Can it be the fault of the BT version? I haven't encountered this problem with any of my other earphones. I tried playing around with the bluetooth settings in developer options but nothing. Very strange.. Any ideas/advice? TIA


Try switching the codec used in the developer settings in your newer phones. It's likely that Tiso tunes then differently for SBC and AAC (most manufacturers do AFAIK).


----------



## TontonRay

vstolpner said:


> Try switching the codec used in the developer settings in your newer phones. It's likely that Tiso tunes then differently for SBC and AAC (most manufacturers do AFAIK).


Thanks, I've already tried to no avail..


----------



## albau (Jul 25, 2019)

d3myz said:


> Great impressions! I really appreciate the comparison.  I'd just add that the t5 is damn near waterproof, I shower with them regularly, but I'm not a big fan of the fit. The tips they come, while high quality made the buds sound abysmal to me. I switched to s/m JVC Spiral Dots it was a game changer.


Yeah, only shows how pointless all these incessant questions here like "how's the fit?" , "which tips to use", "are they comfortable" and so on. Geometry of people's ears, not speaking of sensitivity of their skin, is so different that I truly believe that until one tries various combos of buds and tips there's no way somebody's else experience would help in any way.


----------



## d3myz (Jul 25, 2019)

Just saw this on indiegogo. Wasn't there a post earlier this week about some similar resin TWS' for $100 on Aliexpress? QCC3020 chipset come on Advanced why are you always a step behind? https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/m5-tws-the-pinnacle-of-true-wireless-earbuds/coming_soon


Edit: found Them


----------



## TontonRay

d3myz said:


> Just saw this on indiegogo. Wasn't there a post earlier this week about some similar resin TWS' for $100 on Aliexpress? QCC3020 chipset come on Advanced why are you always a step behind? https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/m5-tws-the-pinnacle-of-true-wireless-earbuds/coming_soon
> 
> 
> Edit: found Them


Yeah, looks like exactly the same buds.


----------



## d3myz

TontonRay said:


> Yeah, looks like exactly the same buds.


I guess the good news is that I'll be able to get them from Advanced via Indiegogo for a discount and hopefully they'll have a good warranty. 8-10 hour battery life is pretty insane.


----------



## albau (Jul 25, 2019)

albau said:


> I have both T5 and 359. Both sound different but excellent unless you switch to them immediately after MW07 which I mainly use. By "excellent" I mean in the vein of 65t but with wider soundstage and more forward mids with better clarity. Treble is more or less the same between all three (T5, 359 and 65t) meaning ok but nothing exciting. T5 sound more energetic thanks to a a little more pronounced bump in mid-bass but 359 are more balanced in overall signature. T5 last on a charge the longest, 5 hours at least. 359 and 65t lag somewhere around 4 hour mark (don't get me started on MW07's dismal 2.5 hours!). With fit I had most problems with MW07 resorting to SpinFits CP100Z-L. All the rest are fine for my ears with their stock tips (large for 359 and 65t, medium for T5). Speaking of stock tips - T5  have the best with solid core and nicely textured soft silicone. Very exclusive. No discomfort with any of them but T5 are HUGE to my liking, they stick out and I can constantly feel them in my ears. 359 are the best in this respect, they almost disappear in my ears, literally and sensually, weigh nothing and stay put. When it comes to charging cases I must designate T5 and 65t as the worst but for different reasons. Former because it's HUGE, unwieldy and feels cheap, latter because it simply feels cheap and doesn't have magnetic guides. Functionally 65t wins hands down - best mic, best control scheme, auto pause, transparent mode, firmware updates, app with EQ. Next comes MW07 which misses only on firmware updates, transparent mode and the app. Both have excellent control schemes and thank god well sorted real buttons that do not jam into the ears. T5 and 359 are minimal and in in terms of fanciness both have only vol control, with T5 having it very inconveniently implemented. All but 359 seem like they came from the real company and not from the travelling circus. Which besides other things reflected in how badly they are made. Even T5 though looking and feeling cheap, still gives a solid and well put impression. I think I posted more than on 2 cents. Like 5.


Few more thoughts to add to myself. *Connectivity*: I believe all four musketeers (359, T5, 65t, MW07) are BT5. For my usage (gym, jog along Hudson and some NYC subway and walk) they all are quite stable. At least I didn't notice any outliers with excessive dropouts or meager range. All were dismal with Galaxy S9+ (except for T5 which I didn't have at the time) and superb with S10 and iPad Air 2nd Gen, so I chalk it up on Samsung. *Codecs:* On S10 all but T5 use AAC, T5 starts on AptX by default (obviously on iPad it's AAC for all of them). When I force switch T5 on S10 to AAC I for life of me can't hear real difference even on lossless files, maybe at times some symphonic music or death metal sound a little crispier but could be placebo effect as well. In any case difference with MW07 is much more striking no matter what music. Which tells you that no electronic tricks can compensate for good analog acoustic engineering.  *Loudness: *T5 is a champ hands down! Followed by 359, MW07 and 65t in that order. *On a side note: *Despite being harsh on 359 I really think that it's an engineering marvel to pack so much great sound into such a small housing and at that low price. I only wish that some respected and stable ChiFi brand like MPOW, Aukey or Anker would put a stop to all that orphaned clone nonsense and produce a well made, supported and warranted _copy_. Will be totally worth extra $15-20.


----------



## d3myz

This is Brilliant. Too bad I don't have a company or 50k laying around. You can get a Customized Logo, Packaging and Graphics etc, min. order 1000.


----------



## d3myz

Can anyone confirm that Ancreu makes the Mifo 05? or did they just re-brand it?


----------



## vstolpner

d3myz said:


> Just saw this on indiegogo. Wasn't there a post earlier this week about some similar resin TWS' for $100 on Aliexpress? QCC3020 chipset come on Advanced why are you always a step behind? https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/m5-tws-the-pinnacle-of-true-wireless-earbuds/coming_soon
> 
> 
> Edit: found Them



Some $10 cheaper than what you can get on AliExpress right now....


----------



## rafaelroxalot

vstolpner said:


> Yeah it gets very loud. Check my review (link in signature)


Can you tell me a comparison of tiso i4 with tranya t3 and anbes 359?

Thanks


----------



## FYLegend

d3myz said:


> Can anyone confirm that Ancreu makes the Mifo 05? or did they just re-brand it?


hmm I thought they were OEM for several of the TWS in this forum including Anbes 359/UFO type. Their site is downright sloppy with unclickable links among other things. When I click on their UFO page it lead me to a cabled Bluetooth IEM.

Anyways, I was searching "Ancreu TWS" and this came up, but is manufactured by Dogo rather than Ancreu. Looks like a new housing for the BE30 UFO, they call it BE30Q.
https://www.alibaba.com/product-det...galleryofferlist.normalList.65.40b6181bMh8qzr


----------



## vstolpner

rafaelroxalot said:


> Can you tell me a comparison of tiso i4 with tranya t3 and anbes 359?
> 
> Thanks



Anbes is most balanced of the two with a great soundstage and decent base, T3 has comparable soundstage with bigger base, maybe slightly less highs. And i4 is for bassheads


----------



## david8613

Can someone tell me about the t3 vs t5?


----------



## vstolpner

david8613 said:


> Can someone tell me about the t3 vs t5?



Still waiting for nine to come in this weekend....


----------



## vstolpner

Has anyone tried these iQute TWS?
They're cheap and come with a 12mm graphene driver! AND with lots of controls right on them! But are a serious Shrek look...


----------



## snip3r77

Looks like frankenstein
I hope anbes 359/tranya is not like this



vstolpner said:


> Has anyone tried these iQute TWS?
> They're cheap and come with a 12mm graphene driver! AND with lots of controls right on them! But are a serious Shrek look...


----------



## vstolpner

snip3r77 said:


> Looks like frankenstein
> I hope anbes 359/tranya is not like this


Not even close - if you look at the pictures you can clearly see they did something weird with placing the driver in its own little bubble. Not sure why not just shorten it and remove that neck between the driver and the main body... Maybe for easier access to the buttons?

For the record I have both the Tranya T3 and the Anbes 359 and they are nothing like that. The 359 barely sticks out of the ear


----------



## rafaelroxalot

vstolpner said:


> Anbes is most balanced of the two with a great soundstage and decent base, T3 has comparable soundstage with bigger base, maybe slightly less highs. And i4 is for bassheads



But the sound quality of tiso i4 is much lower than tranya?


----------



## vstolpner

rafaelroxalot said:


> But the sound quality of tiso i4 is much lower than tranya?



It really depends on what you need. Tiso i4 is really really bassy, if you want something more balanced then the Tranya is a better choice. That said, the Tiso is much smaller and much cheaper.

All depends on your preferences.


----------



## rafaelroxalot

vstolpner said:


> It really depends on what you need. Tiso i4 is really really bassy, if you want something more balanced then the Tranya is a better choice. That said, the Tiso is much smaller and much cheaper.
> 
> All depends on your preferences.



Right, maybe its interesting to get tiso and see if i like the bass lol. 
How about tiso i5 have you heard?


----------



## vstolpner

rafaelroxalot said:


> Right, maybe its interesting to get tiso and see if i like the bass lol.
> How about tiso i5 have you heard?



No haven't heard the i5.
The i4's are cheap enough that you can order them just to try.
I got mine from this AE store.

Edit: I think someone mentioned getting the i5 here... Search through the thread


----------



## turbobb

vstolpner said:


> Has anyone tried these iQute TWS?
> They're cheap and come with a 12mm graphene driver! AND with lots of controls right on them! But are a serious Shrek look...



I have, here was my initial impression:

"iQute TWS - there's the adage with car engines that there's simply no replacement for displacement and this TWE fits the bill. Main thing that caught my eye was that it features a 12mm graphene driver. They are kinda bulky and I finally found a good fit with some M sized Spinfit tips and man these things are loud! Only SBC and the implementation seems average (some slight graininess - Jaybird X2 is my benchmark for well-implemented SBC) but otherwise, it has very deep bass, airy presentation, crisp treble that's not sibilant at all. The range is pretty good and I haven't had any issues with inter-bud connectivity so far. I also like that the main body of the case is aluminum rather than cheap plastic with rubberized feets to keep them from sliding. Oh, did I mention how loud these are? I generally listen on the lower end of the spectrum and rarely exceed 50% volume on my LG V30 which with the majority of my BT earbuds are still bearable until about 75%. These at 60% are just a bit too loud for me.  I like that it has redundant volume +/- controls and play/pause buttons on both buds that offer a very satisfying and crisp tactile feel when depressed (although this does transmit microphonics into your ears though...). Overall, I'm pretty satisfied with these (especially with the $10 off promo they currently have going else I wouldn't have purchased these at regular price of $44)."

Ultimately I returned them given there were better options for the price at the time. Also, I believe @BobJS said they sounded better than Anbes.


----------



## rafaelroxalot

Maybe off topic, but i have a question, any of you got tws white earphones? They became yellow or not?


----------



## snip3r77

david8613 said:


> Can someone tell me about the t3 vs t5?



you mean Tranya T3 vs MPOW T5?


----------



## vstolpner

rafaelroxalot said:


> Maybe off topic, but i have a question, any of you got tws white earphones? They became yellow or not?



I hope not... I want to get a pair... Lol


----------



## n33t

Ordered Qcy QS2 from aliexpress and got one dead... Bummer as i have been checking this thread and looking forward for them, already opened dispute and i guess it will take timeu ntil i will try TWS


----------



## igorneumann

Gokuz said:


> Someone should fire this guy,
> 
> I thought he would make a good video based on what we are discussing but nope, he just randomly buying ****. Heck, he could use @scarbir reviews as a base point.






vstolpner said:


> I actually commented something along those lines in the video.... I thought they typically had good quality videos (and information therein), but I'm starting to doubt that.



Totally agree... I do love LTT, but they know nothing about earphones / headphones.
Check out other videos in the topic such as "Does Bose still suck?", they are all inline with this one.

Not big deal, anyways, audio just isn't their thing.


----------



## igorneumann

n33t said:


> Ordered Qcy QS2 from aliexpress and got one dead... Bummer as i have been checking this thread and looking forward for them, already opened dispute and i guess it will take timeu ntil i will try TWS



Is it charging? 
Check the contact between the case and the IEM, maybe its battery is just empty and you can clean the contacts or move the pins a bit.


----------



## n33t

It is not charging, the battery in headphone is dead(after getting it out of charging case its dropping from 170mV to almost 0 in seconds), but the voltage on pins in case is 5V on both charging pins. I also cleaned contacts (on case and on earphone) with alcohol just in case and still nothing


----------



## igorneumann

n33t said:


> It is not charging, the battery in headphone is dead(after getting it out of charging case its dropping from 170mV to almost 0 in seconds), but the voltage on pins in case is 5V on both charging pins. I also cleaned contacts (on case and on earphone) with alcohol just in case and still nothing



But the charging led turns on?

YES: Defective battery
NOI: Check if pins are properly aligned, maybe you can just push them in their right place. (had that problem with the Sabbat E12, it just charged the right unit when twisted a little bit on arrival, I manage to just push the pin a bit to the left.)


----------



## Caipirina

vstolpner said:


> Has anyone tried these iQute TWS?
> They're cheap and come with a 12mm graphene driver! AND with lots of controls right on them! But are a serious Shrek look...


1 more stylish and Bose SSF stick out like that. And have seen a few others. Personally I don’t mind it on the B SSF at all


----------



## n33t

igorneumann said:


> But the charging led turns on?
> 
> YES: Defective battery
> NOI: Check if pins are properly aligned, maybe you can just push them in their right place. (had that problem with the Sabbat E12, it just charged the right unit when twisted a little bit on arrival, I manage to just push the pin a bit to the left.)


Thanks i will try it when i get home, the LED is not turned on on it. how do you mean push to right place?


----------



## igorneumann (Jul 26, 2019)

n33t said:


> Thanks i will try it when i get home, the LED is not turned on on it. how do you mean push to right place?



In my case, the pin was a bit to the right of where it should be (so I had to twist it counter clockwise a bit, as the pins were at the top, in order to make contact)
I used a razor to push the pin to the left (as with my hands i pushed it down when I tried to push it left)

You need to somehow find where they should be and try to move it (in my case I found out because of the direction i needed to twist it to make contact and because the pin wasnt centered on its hole)

IF the problem is the same, could be other thing (cable disconnected inside, maybe)


----------



## Bartig

Here's my review of the Mpow T5. It's the best sounding true wireless I've tested so far. Enjoy.


----------



## david8613

snip3r77 said:


> you mean Tranya T3 vs MPOW T5?




Yes, i would like to see that comparison. 
honestly I really think the tranya t3 is the better sleeper hit tw, I even think it's better than the anbes 359, it's less foward in the mids doesnt sound forced. The tranya t3 is butter smooth, strong when it needs to be with bass, sometimes the t3 suprises me with mids and voice reproduction, even the treble is super nice clear and suprises me how good it sounds,  very textured highs. T3 has a Wide sound stage, sound bounces from every direction The tranya 3 took a long time to burn in though, when new the bass might sound too strong but it really smooths out. I like the controls over the anbes 359 too, they are easier to press. 

Anyone try the tiso i4, I hear these are bass head tw, but still very clear everywhere else I'm curious to try those.


----------



## vladzakhar

Fostex TM2 and Andromeda playing AAC through Iphone has sound made in heaven. HUGE soundstage, HUGE bass, mids and highs are perfect.
The only problem is white noise on quite tracks. Maybe, because Andromedas have armature drivers. Fostex stock IEMs with dynamic drivers  don't have that much noise.
They sound really bad compare to Andros.


----------



## clerkpalmer

vladzakhar said:


> Fostex TM2 and Andromeda playing AAC through Iphone has sound made in heaven. HUGE soundstage, HUGE bass, mids and highs are perfect.
> The only problem is white noise on quite tracks. Maybe, because Andromedas have armature drivers. Fostex stock IEMs with dynamic drivers  don't have that much noise.
> They sound really bad compare to Andros.


Nice setup there. That’s one high end set of tw.


----------



## BobJS

How does TM2 compare with ES100 ?


----------



## vstolpner

david8613 said:


> Anyone try the tiso i4, I hear these are bass head tw, but still very clear everywhere else I'm curious to try those.



See my review in my signature


----------



## tsoltan

I'm just wondering is it a big difference between Fostex TM2(~300$) and TRN BT20s(~40$).
qcc 3026 vs qcc 3020
12h vs 8h
Both aptx.
But for the money of Fostex TM2 - you can buy 2 versions of TRN(mmcx and 2-pin). As for such connectors - they are already included in TM2 package.


----------



## clerkpalmer

For the good of the group, I decided to try the Anbes to see how the chi-fi stuff compares to all of my other TWs headsets.  I am pleasantly surprised at the SQ on them.  Plenty of bass that's for sure.  They treble definitely lacks sparkle but they aren't muddy.  I would say for $40 or less, it's hard to complain but they are still a notch below the Advanced Model X.  They lack balance, clarity and punch in comparison.  I think the 65T is probably better as well but for 4 - 5 times the price, they should be.  Overall, these are nice backups but I don't think they can compete with the big boys.  You get what you pay for but whether paying 4 to 5 times the price to get better SQ really is a personal thing.  These will work for the gym and bike rides but definitely not for any sort of critical listening.


----------



## d3myz

Bartig said:


> Here's my review of the Mpow T5. It's the best sounding true wireless I've tested so far. Enjoy.


Great review, my man! The audible feedback is annoying and the fit is a bit strange at times, but the t5 is a a killer TWS' they go on sale for around $38. I got mine for $42.


----------



## albau

clerkpalmer said:


> For the good of the group, I decided to try the Anbes to see how the chi-fi stuff compares to all of my other TWs headsets.  I am pleasantly surprised at the SQ on them.  Plenty of bass that's for sure.  They treble definitely lacks sparkle but they aren't muddy.  I would say for $40 or less, it's hard to complain but they are still a notch below the Advanced Model X.  They lack balance, clarity and punch in comparison.  I think the 65T is probably better as well but for 4 - 5 times the price, they should be.  Overall, these are nice backups but I don't think they can compete with the big boys.  You get what you pay for but whether paying 4 to 5 times the price to get better SQ really is a personal thing.  These will work for the gym and bike rides but definitely not for any sort of critical listening.


Totally agree with your 359 verdict except for the 65t bit. I have both and to me Jabra sounds more hermetic and condensed with shallower breath in mids. 359 and T5 are more or less on par sonically with latter probably winning on overall clarity. MW07 is in a totally different league though.


----------



## david8613

The price went up on the mpow t5????


----------



## clerkpalmer

albau said:


> Totally agree with your 359 verdict except for the 65t bit. I have both and to me Jabra sounds more hermetic and condensed with shallower breath in mids. 359 and T5 are more or less on par sonically with latter probably winning on overall clarity. MW07 is in a totally different league though.



Agree. Tough call v the 65t Which are mediocre at best. I could see you preferring the anbes.


----------



## albau

Bartig said:


> Here's my review of the Mpow T5. It's the best sounding true wireless I've tested so far. Enjoy.


Nice review but, man, I wouldn't call them tiny, especially compared to 359 or t1c. And they stick out allright, even more than 65t. On the plus side buds are surprisingly light. Soundwise my biggest dissapointment are highs. Like with all current darlings like 359 and t1c it's decent but simply a bit dull and not interesting on T5. But all is forgiven considering overall package and its execution for the meager price. Nice backups.


----------



## actorlife




----------



## d3myz

actorlife said:


>



Intriguing. anyone speak Thai?


----------



## Slater

n33t said:


> It is not charging, the battery in headphone is dead(after getting it out of charging case its dropping from 170mV to almost 0 in seconds), but the voltage on pins in case is 5V on both charging pins. I also cleaned contacts (on case and on earphone) with alcohol just in case and still nothing



Try it with no eartips installed to see if it charges.


----------



## Mouseman

rafaelroxalot said:


> Maybe off topic, but i have a question, any of you got tws white earphones? They became yellow or not?


I have a pair of QCYs that are white, and I haven't had any issues with them changing color.


----------



## n33t

Slater said:


> Try it with no eartips installed to see if it charges.


tried no tips, bigger tips, tried to look whether they correctly sit inside charging case (they do)

for now i am trying aliexpress refund and if somebody know how to safely open them id try to take a look inside to check for some unconnected / shorted cables


----------



## Slater

n33t said:


> tried no tips, bigger tips, tried to look whether they correctly sit inside charging case (they do)
> 
> for now i am trying aliexpress refund and if somebody know how to safely open them id try to take a look inside to check for some unconnected / shorted cables



Someone posted a while back a website (I think it was Japanese) that did a full tear down of the QCY. You can tell from the photos exactly how it all comes apart.

I probably have the link saved somewhere, but if you search for it you will find it.


----------



## vstolpner

Got my T5's! First impressions are fantastic!
Will play with them over the weekend and post my review next week!


----------



## TontonRay

vstolpner said:


> Got my T5's! First impressions are fantastic!
> Will play with them over the weekend and post my review next week!


Enjoy! They are really nice.


----------



## d3myz (Jul 26, 2019)

Received my Back Bay Duet 50's, been listening for about 30 min. First impression is they are indistinguishable from the Tranya T1-Pro other than the charging case and the logos. They are a really good sounding TWS' but not great like the T5. I may end up keeping them if they really do have an 8 hour battery life. They are super comfortable and sound great for audiobooks. i'll pull out my T1 pros, do a little burn in and do a side by side.

Edit: The Back Bay actually has quite a bit less bass that the T1 Pro. other than that they sound really really close to identical. maybe by reducing the bass, BB was able to pull another hour out of the battery.


----------



## tsoltan

actorlife said:


>



Looks awesome. Hope that someone ordered it from this thread.


----------



## jant71 (Jul 27, 2019)

Got my Duet 50 in and took some pics. This is what they look like(in case like me you don't know a t1-pro from Adam)...








Box says IPX5 instead of IPX4 so that is a bit better. I like my Bluedio Hi for the big stage and low battery drain. Not liking the BB need 10 or more notches of volume over the Bluedio. That would mean the difference in getting through a weekend or not with my Ruizu X51 if I was using that outside.

Not hearing that good of a sound. Well balanced and a bit of detail but not anything special. Need more testing esp. with more devices but I, like d3myz, will give them a chance but thoughts of sending them back popped into the old noggin' already.

Edit: Perhaps with the right tips and the right device they are a keeper. They seem to take to my Ruizu's EQ quite well and can sound pretty sweet. The case does fit them with Sony hybrid LL on them so that is a plus as well.


----------



## Soreniglio

My QCY seem to be unbalanced, left ear is higher volume than right one, what am I supposed to do?


----------



## vstolpner (Jul 26, 2019)

Did anyone hear of these TRN T100 TWS?
Wondering if anyone decided to give them a shot - TRN BT20 are fantastic, so curious if their "true TWS" earbuds are any good?
Say they're using an "aluminized liquid crystal polymer diaphragm" - whatever that is..... :-/

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32957942274.html

Also, are these a rebrand of sorts? Case looks familiar...


----------



## FYLegend

Unfortunately after speaking to Earfun support, it sounds like they have no intention to make more Free Oluv edition units and they have offered a refund. Even so, I am disappointed by the way the campaign has been handled and their QC. Decided to get a Sabbat E12 in the meantime to see what the fuss is about... Also waiting for my UFOs and Jabees Firefly Pro...

If only someone made a TWS with wireless charging, Type C AND AptX! I thought Astrotec might have something in the works...


----------



## vstolpner

FYLegend said:


> Unfortunately after speaking to Earfun support, it sounds like they have no intention to make more Free Oluv edition units and they have offered a refund. Even so, I am disappointed by the way the campaign has been handled and their QC. Decided to get a Sabbat E12 in the meantime to see what the fuss is about... Also waiting for my UFOs and Jabees Firefly Pro...
> 
> If only someone made a TWS with wireless charging, Type C AND AptX! I thought Astrotec might have something in the works...



Maybe the new 1more hybrid's... that are maybe going to be released siometime this decade....? lol


----------



## d3myz

jant71 said:


> Got my Duet 50 in and took some pics. This is what they look like(in case like me you don't know a t1-pro from Adam)...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I got mine too, I was too lazy to take pics, so thanks. I would say that their saving grace is aptX. They sound much better with aptX, but I only have two devices that support it, none of them portable. My volume via iphone xs max is great. but you're right they aren't outstanding. They have the same voice assistant as the mpow T5 but the function much less quirky. My T5's have to power off one ear at a time for some reason, the BB's don't.


----------



## Slater (Jul 26, 2019)

vstolpner said:


> ... they're using an "aluminized liquid crystal polymer diaphragm" - whatever that is..... :-/



‘Liquid crystal polymer’ is a fancy term for Kevlar. It’s light and stiff, and makes good diaphragm material. I have a few other Kevlar diaphragms, and I like them.

And ‘aluminized’ means that the material has a coating of aluminum as well. It could be vapor deposition, but it could also be an additional sandwiched layer (ie a multi-layer diaphragm). This further increases the stiffness (as well as cost). Aluminum diaphragms have similar characteristics as titanium diaphragms, but at a lower cost than titanium.

Both aluminum and Kevlar construction will be very light and stiff. This should (theoretically) translate to fast and crisp response, good low end performance with low distortion, easy to drive, and the aluminum (or titanium) coating _generally_ translates to good treble extension and a lively and bright tone.

But again, that’s pretty general terms. Of course, there’s more to a headphone’s sound than the diaphragm material, but it’s nice to know they used a much more expensive driver (vs a cheap run-of-the-mill PET (Mylar) diaphragm).

It shows me that some thought went into the sound performance and tuning, instead of just slapping the most inexpensive parts in to maximize profit.


----------



## asak

actorlife said:


>




The guy doesn't want to comment on the sound since it's not the final version. But the eartips included are very soft and comfortable. The earbuds fit very secure and comfortable. A single tap plays and pauses. 3 taps on the left side is volume up, 3 taps on the right side is volume down. Think all the other information is available via internet print, 3 hours run time, etc.


----------



## Slater

asak said:


> The guy doesn't want to comment on the sound since it's not the final version. But the eartips included are very soft and comfortable. The earbuds fit very secure and comfortable. A single tap plays and pauses. 3 taps on the left side is volume up, 3 taps on the right side is volume down. Think all the other information is available via internet print, 3 hours run time, etc.



So is the version everyone recently ordered the “final version”?


----------



## asak

Slater said:


> So is the version everyone recently ordered the “final version”?



Nah, I believe it's the public beta. Think the Hifiman TWS600 also went through something like this and had a second revision that was tuned differently based on the public feedback. 

http://www.hifiman.cn/articles/detail/477


----------



## jant71 (Jul 26, 2019)

d3myz said:


> I got mine too, I was too lazy to take pics, so thanks. I would say that their saving grace is aptX. They sound much better with aptX, but I only have two devices that support it, none of them portable. My volume via iphone xs max is great. but you're right they aren't outstanding. They have the same voice assistant as the mpow T5 but the function much less quirky. My T5's have to power off one ear at a time for some reason, the BB's don't.



That would track with the EQ35 back bay I had. aptX on my Sony S45 made them sing pretty nice. Don't think I have anything with aptX right now either. Still, have gotten these BB to sound quite good with these...




The Apple in-ears style tips. I am using the large which is pretty big so it kinda has a little rub going in and out of the case but not that bad. I noticed that all the tips are on the small side which I am sure contributes to the lower bass amount. Anyhow, much happier now with the SQ. Of course that is the same as my last Backbay experience; the stocks tips weren't gonna get me to the best SQ. Working with them is recommended to get the best sound out of them.


----------



## snip3r77

asak said:


> The guy doesn't want to comment on the sound since it's not the final version. But the eartips included are very soft and comfortable. The earbuds fit very secure and comfortable. A single tap plays and pauses. 3 taps on the left side is volume up, 3 taps on the right side is volume down. Think all the other information is available via internet print, 3 hours run time, etc.


Not touching kZ with a 10 foot pole


----------



## actorlife

Free. Just pay shipping
https://hoolieshop.com/collections/...CVPya5USCVA1bW52ZqSNIZ6ziacqZJDnJOwj2CLLchQlQ


----------



## SharkSkin

Soundpeats Truengine2
https://truengine.soundpeats.co.jp/?redirect=true

Dual beryllium plated drivers with aptX and 30+ hours of battery life (no indication of what the battery life of the buds themselves is. Seems kinda interesting.


----------



## PopZeus

Anyone have trouble getting both sides of the Trn BT20 to pair with an iPhone? It was working great for awhile, and now it will only allow one IEM to work at a time.


----------



## chinmie

PopZeus said:


> Anyone have trouble getting both sides of the Trn BT20 to pair with an iPhone? It was working great for awhile, and now it will only allow one IEM to work at a time.



when turning on both the L and R side at the same time, hold them close to each other (5cm approximately). if you turn them on while wearing it on the ears, for instance, they won't pair to each other because they're too far away or the pairing signal is blocked by the head.


----------



## chinmie

actorlife said:


> Free. Just pay shipping
> https://hoolieshop.com/collections/...CVPya5USCVA1bW52ZqSNIZ6ziacqZJDnJOwj2CLLchQlQ



interesting.. but why do they use touch controls


----------



## vstolpner

actorlife said:


> Free. Just pay shipping
> https://hoolieshop.com/collections/...CVPya5USCVA1bW52ZqSNIZ6ziacqZJDnJOwj2CLLchQlQ



The shipping is the same cost as the earbuds with free shipping from AliExpress.... Lol


----------



## PopZeus

chinmie said:


> when turning on both the L and R side at the same time, hold them close to each other (5cm approximately). if you turn them on while wearing it on the ears, for instance, they won't pair to each other because they're too far away or the pairing signal is blocked by the head.



Oh that totally worked! Thanks!


----------



## vstolpner

SharkSkin said:


> Soundpeats Truengine2
> https://truengine.soundpeats.co.jp/?redirect=true
> 
> Dual beryllium plated drivers with aptX and 30+ hours of battery life (no indication of what the battery life of the buds themselves is. Seems kinda interesting.


 Syllable s101 with beryllium drivers?


----------



## EveTan

vladzakhar said:


> Fostex TM2 and Andromeda playing AAC through Iphone has sound made in heaven. HUGE soundstage, HUGE bass, mids and highs are perfect.
> The only problem is white noise on quite tracks. Maybe, because Andromedas have armature drivers. Fostex stock IEMs with dynamic drivers  don't have that much noise.
> They sound really bad compare to Andros.



Glad I'm not the only one who's had that problem. With sensitive IEMs like my FitEar 335s, I hear a considerable amount of white noise. The controls are also super loud when they connect/disconnect. Is it possible to change that?


----------



## chinmie

PopZeus said:


> Oh that totally worked! Thanks!



glad to help! it also gave me the same headache when i first got it, until i found the way to do it


----------



## slipstreamrider

The old Mpow T5 listing on amazon is no longer available. There's now an "Updated" version from a different seller for $74, wonder what's the difference, if any. 

https://www.amazon.com/Updated-Wate...words=mpow+t5&qid=1564204025&s=gateway&sr=8-5


----------



## vstolpner

slipstreamrider said:


> The old Mpow T5 listing on amazon is no longer available. There's now an "Updated" version from a different seller for $74, wonder what's the difference, if any.
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/Updated-Wate...words=mpow+t5&qid=1564204025&s=gateway&sr=8-5



That listing looks like some cheap third party reseller... Weird...

I didn't spot any different - did the old Mpow T5 have IPX7?


----------



## slipstreamrider (Jul 27, 2019)

vstolpner said:


> did the old Mpow T5 have IPX7?



I think so. Didn't someone shower with them recently lol

Still waiting for mine to arrive from that lightning deal the other day. Getting my hopes up reading the reviews on here


----------



## n33t

Slater said:


> Someone posted a while back a website (I think it was Japanese) that did a full tear down of the QCY. You can tell from the photos exactly how it all comes apart.
> 
> I probably have the link saved somewhere, but if you search for it you will find it.


If you have it it would be great, i tried to search for it yesterday but didn't find anything


----------



## Tranman409

vstolpner said:


> That listing looks like some cheap third party reseller... Weird...
> 
> I didn't spot any different - did the old Mpow T5 have IPX7?







slipstreamrider said:


> I think so. Didn't someone shower with them recently lol
> 
> Still waiting for mine to arrive from that lightning deal the other day. Getting my hopes up reading the reviews on here



The one I got a few months ago are. I took a few showers and no issue yet


----------



## snip3r77

Stupid question

why Tranya T3 N.A at ali or taobao


----------



## gibletzor

Hello everyone!  This is my first post on head-fi, but I've been lurking around for quite some time.  It was the knowledgeable people around here that led me to my AKG K702's I use for gaming (that I LOVE) and now I've been looking into getting some wireless earbuds for use at the office and working outside at home.  The research, testing and reviews that you guys do are amazing and so much more helpful than reviews from places like CNET.  

Anyway...  After reading this long, long collaborative effort between everyone, I saw the Funcl W1's on a lightning deal on Amazon last week.  From what I had read here it sounded like they'd be right up my alley for the types of music I listen to; mostly 70's to 2000's rock/alternative with a little bit of rap and pop thrown in.  Not too heavy on the bassy stuff.  I prefer clear vocals and guitars/drums to booming bass.  Even with the good reviews from you all on the W1's I wasn't expecting to be blown away, but I was rather impressed!  Vocals and mid/high instruments were very clear.  Bass was reasonably strong, but not overly powerful.  The bass was definitely less clear than the highs and mids though.  Alas, I had to send them back.  Any time I was moving around with the phone in my pocket, the right side earbud would randomly disconnect.  Sometimes every 30 seconds, sometimes it would be every few minutes.  Sitting in front of my computer, the connection was more solid, but I still had a couple dropouts.  So for now my journey continues.  Looking hard at the MPOW T5's (if Amazon gets them back in).

You people are a terrible influence on my need to budget my money!


----------



## DigDub

Meet my new friend Aviot TE-01G, next to the Mpow t5. 10hrs playback time, ipx7, track and volume control, USB-C charging case. Oh, she literally speaks Japanese, the voice prompts are in Japanese. Very good sound quality, not boomy not boxy, treble could probably be a bit more resolving but it's still very good. Big soundstage. Volume is a little low.


----------



## Bartig (Jul 27, 2019)

albau said:


> Nice review but, man, I wouldn't call them tiny, especially compared to 359 or t1c. And they stick out allright, even more than 65t. On the plus side buds are surprisingly light. Soundwise my biggest dissapointment are highs. Like with all current darlings like 359 and t1c it's decent but simply a bit dull and not interesting on T5. But all is forgiven considering overall package and its execution for the meager price. Nice backups.


I wasn't planning on describing them as tiny initially. Then I lay them next to many other earpieces and yeah... these are still very tiny. 


Meanwhile, I grew attached to these buddies. The bass isn't the most detailed, but it does have a nicely balanced sound. The Wavefun X-Pods 3, I believe the cheapest TWS with AptX support. Here's my review, if you're interested.


----------



## slipstreamrider

@Bartig Quick question - which one of your 5 star options has the most pocketable case and minimal protrusion from the ears?


----------



## Bartig

slipstreamrider said:


> @Bartig Quick question - which one of your 5 star options has the most pocketable case and minimal protrusion from the ears?


Minimal protrusion... Hmm, I honestly think they are all somehow equal in this regard. The Anomoibuds and Anbes 359 are the most pocket friendly.


----------



## Soreniglio

I'm waiting so much for the QCY T3 to restock, I wanna buy them


----------



## TontonRay

Bartig said:


> I wasn't planning on describing them as tiny initially. Then I lay them next to many other earpieces and yeah... these are still very tiny.
> 
> 
> Meanwhile, I grew attached to these buddies. The bass isn't the most detailed, but it does have a nicely balanced sound. The Wavefun X-Pods 3, I believe the cheapest TWS with AptX support. Here's my review, if you're interested.


Thanks for the review. Have been eyeing them for a while. What do you think is the difference between the Wavefuns and the Ytom T1? They look identical and you can get the Ytoms for as low as $27 on Ali.


----------



## actorlife

TontonRay said:


> Just came back from the post office with the Mpow T5 and Tiso i4.
> 
> Really impressed with the T5. Keep comparing it to the Anbes 359 (or whatever rebrand..) and it's hard to decide which one I like better.
> The bass on the T5 is stronger, more pronounced. The Anbes are a little more balanced to my ears and they are somewhat brighter.
> ...


I'm getting close to 5hrs on half volume. Having the volume all the way up kills the battery faster. Glad you're liking the Anbes I hope they release a earbud with 8-10hr battery soon and maybe aptx, although not needed SQ still gteat. I'd love a 359 v2 in various color schemes as well.


----------



## actorlife (Jul 27, 2019)

Bartig said:


> Oof, you think so? I've tried three Awei models and those were the most bassy muddy chifi items I've heard so far.
> 
> 
> Whoah! <3


Yep I love the Awei ESQ7i(Hard to find now, except on amazon USA), Q9 Wooden pair(SQ is very good, although Q7 is better), Whoops they are MoreBlue Y522 4.1 Bluetooth wired set decent, but a bit roll off treble could use more sparkle, SE900i pair very bassy and big roll off treble. Those were bad. Awei ES10 and E11 are also very good.
MoreBlue B09 4.1 wired are really good too. Good sparkly treble and bass. More of a neutral sound. Decent soundstage. Not for bass heads, but bass is good. I'm listening now forget how good they were actually. Mpow Swift is better, but these are no slouch. 
On all of these(7) I paid less than $35 buckaroos amazing quality too for the price.


----------



## actorlife

vstolpner said:


> Has anyone tried these iQute TWS?
> They're cheap and come with a 12mm graphene driver! AND with lots of controls right on them! But are a serious Shrek look...


I have those in my cart, but kept deciding not to get them. Maybe it's the fit don't remember. Hopshoop W1 is the one you want if you want Graphene drivers. Barely noticeable like the Anbes, although Anbes is smaller.


----------



## Caipirina

vstolpner said:


> That listing looks like some cheap third party reseller... Weird...
> 
> I didn't spot any different - did the old Mpow T5 have IPX7?



Someone who is reading along here and ceased the opportunity of the T5's rising star


----------



## actorlife

Caipirina said:


> Someone who is reading along here and ceased the opportunity of the T5's rising star


Get them KZ in your lair yet?


----------



## TontonRay

actorlife said:


> I'm getting close to 5hrs on half volume. Having the volume all the way up kills the battery faster. Glad you're liking the Anbes I hope they release a earbud with 8-10hr battery soon and maybe aptx, although not needed SQ still gteat. I'd love a 359 v2 in various color schemes as well.


I'm also at about half volume (on the earphones. On the phone 90%). Don't know why such a difference. Maybe that's one of the downsides of not having the original Anbes (mine is the Letscom version).
Hoping with you for the rest of your reply.


----------



## actorlife (Jul 27, 2019)

TontonRay said:


> I'm also at about half volume (on the earphones. On the phone 90%). Don't know why such a difference. Maybe that's one of the downsides of not having the original Anbes (mine is the Letscom version).
> Hoping with you for the rest of your reply.


Aww man if I had monies I'd send you a real pair darnit. Hopefully you are in the US and can order them on amazon wait I think they are available today! Let me check. Edit Nope still not available.


----------



## Caipirina

Three more cheapo TWS before my summer shopping fun is over (with only the KZ T1 in the mail) 

First of the 'Anbes' XG-13, but I don't have much to add to what Bartig has been saying before ... they are cheap fun (bass!) and they just work and fit well ...  For the 10.65$ I paid (did not have any fancy product box, maybe that made it cheaper) 


 

Next, here we have a reject ... those I found on amazon, I liked the way they looked, the reviews seemed all fake, does not hurt to try ... 

And well, they are not that bad, but then again, sound is 'light', a bit tin-can-y .. and overall the connection of the left bud keeps dropping .. so, these are going back ... 

They identify as Xi9, in case anyone is wondering. And if there is one redeeming property: the round charging case is kinda nice, wrapped in a matte black rubber-y material.

 


And now for the happy ending (  ) 

LASDOLOD LA10 (20€)... whoever is behind this, thankyou!  ... these are another example for cheap FUN buds that kinda just work ... though the bass is boomy to muffled, somehow I feel enveloped in a cloud of fun sound ... nothing analytical, but I can't wait to take those running!  If you have access to amazon.de and you are a hoarder .. i mean collector, those make a nice addition at this price point. IPX5, Chip RTL8763B. 4-5h music .... the case is just really odd ... when you open, the R bud is on your left and vice versa ... there is a button, don't know the function yet ... they do NOT turn off when put back into case (as advertised), but Jabra Elite Sport had the very same issue (making music in closed case) .. so, manually off it is. Kinda dig those double flange eartips, they actually work nicely ... they also have one size bigger, which does not seem to properly fit these buds   .. might try with some other tips .. still have some unopened spinfit that I never got to play with yet ,...


----------



## Caipirina (Jul 27, 2019)

Three more cheapo TWS before my summer shopping fun is over (with only the KZ T1 in the mail)

First of the 'Anbes' XG-13, but I don't have much to add to what Bartig has been saying before ... they are cheap fun (bass!) and they just work and fit well ...  For the 10.65$ I paid (did not have any fancy product box, maybe that made it cheaper)



Next, here we have a reject ... those I found on amazon, I liked the way they looked, the reviews seemed all fake, does not hurt to try ...

And well, they are not that bad, but then again, sound is 'light', a bit tin-can-y .. and overall the connection of the left bud keeps dropping .. so, these are going back ...

They identify as Xi9, in case anyone is wondering. And if there is one redeeming property: the round charging case is kinda nice, wrapped in a matte black rubber-y material.




And now for the happy ending (  )

LASDOLOD LA10 (20€)... whoever is behind this, thankyou!  ... these are another example for cheap FUN buds that kinda just work ... though the bass is boomy to muffled, somehow I feel enveloped in a cloud of fun sound ... nothing analytical, but I can't wait to take those running!  If you have access to amazon.de and you are a hoarder .. i mean collector, those make a nice addition at this price point. IPX5, Chip RTL8763B. 4-5h music .... the case is just really odd ... when you open, the R bud is on your left and vice versa ... there is a button, don't know the function yet ... they do NOT turn off when put back into case (as advertised), but Jabra Elite Sport had the very same issue (making music in closed case) .. so, manually off it is. Also that lid of the case feels cheap and is finicky to open ... but heck ... it's small and packs 310mAh extra juice. The outer seems to be partially aluminium ...

Kinda dig those double flange eartips, they actually work nicely ... they also have one size bigger, which does not seem to properly fit these buds   .. might try with some other tips .. still have some unopened spinfit that I never got to play with yet ,...


----------



## Caipirina

actorlife said:


> Get them KZ in your lair yet?



Tracking says it left China ... did not pay for anything speedy ... won't be back to lair for like 10 more days ... so, patience my young Padawan ...


----------



## Caipirina (Jul 27, 2019)

delete 
(when you hit reply instead of edit ... is there a way to delete our own posts?)


----------



## snip3r77

Soreniglio said:


> I'm waiting so much for the QCY T3 to restock, I wanna buy them


What’s so good as compared to anbes 359


----------



## actorlife

Caipirina said:


> delete
> (when you hit reply instead of edit ... is there a way to delete our own posts?)


Not that I know of I just edit and put the word delete or double post.


----------



## actorlife

snip3r77 said:


> What’s so good as compared to anbes 359


Nothing just more hoarding. ✌️


----------



## TontonRay

actorlife said:


> Aww man if I had monies I'd send you a real pair darnit. Hopefully you are in the US and can order them on amazon wait I think they are available today! Let me check.


Thanks man, that's nice of you, but I'm faaaaar away from the US..(Israel) and I boycott Amazon so I'm left with Ali and/or Ebay.


----------



## actorlife (Jul 27, 2019)

TontonRay said:


> Thanks man, that's nice of you, but I'm faaaaar away from the US..(Israel) and I boycott Amazon so I'm left with Ali and/or Ebay.


Hopefully you can get the real deal on Ali. Just make sure the seller sends you the cover of the box with the Anbes logo and black background.


----------



## actorlife

Caipirina said:


> Three more cheapo TWS before my summer shopping fun is over (with only the KZ T1 in the mail)
> 
> First of the 'Anbes' XG-13, but I don't have much to add to what Bartig has been saying before ... they are cheap fun (bass!) and they just work and fit well ...  For the 10.65$ I paid (did not have any fancy product box, maybe that made it cheaper)
> 
> ...


 LASDOLOD/Anbes how is the treble to your ears? do they sparkle?


----------



## Caipirina

actorlife said:


> LASDOLOD/Anbes how is the treble to your ears? do they sparkle?



Will check on that. Need nice, sparkly source ... so far only listening to thumpy stuff on mixcloud .. maybe not the best quality reference  
I think I recall that something sounded a bit harsh ... will give it a special listen later ..


----------



## actorlife

Caipirina said:


> Will check on that. Need nice, sparkly source ... so far only listening to thumpy stuff on mixcloud .. maybe not the best quality reference
> I think I recall that something sounded a bit harsh ... will give it a special listen later ..


Time for pink noise.


----------



## Caipirina

actorlife said:


> Time for pink noise.



How about you give me some nice track on YT that's good for checking highs .. but nothing with shrubby guitars or anything death metall-y ?


----------



## actorlife

Caipirina said:


> How about you give me some nice track on YT that's good for checking highs .. but nothing with shrubby guitars or anything death metall-y ?


This is my go to recently. Clear Vocals, Clear shimmer on the cymbals and Bass notes. The Anbes plays this perfectly:


----------



## Caipirina

Caipirina said:


> How about you give me some nice track on YT that's good for checking highs .. but nothing with shrubby guitars or anything death metall-y ?


ok, answering my own question ... I just went through most tracks on THIS list ... and those LADOLOD keep impressing me.

Ok, so the bass is overbearing to a point that it steals thunder from the mids... and the highs might not have brilliant detail ... but female voices like Mariah Hill do NOT come across as shrill and there is no sign of sibillance ... these are still pretty awesome for bass boomy EDM / run-type music. 

Something for 20€ sounding like that makes me giddy! 

now trying this with the Anbes XG13 (why even anbes, it does not say anbes anywhere ... other than the seller's headline)


----------



## Caipirina

actorlife said:


> This is my go to recently. Clear Vocals, Clear shimmer on the cymbals and Bass notes. The Anbes plays this perfectly:




Bit tricky to judge, as I don't really know the track ... this slight distortion in the guitar is intended I guess? But I can say that the guy's screaming .. i mean emotional singing comes across sibilance free on the XG13 .. but if my ears like it? not really ... cymbals also seem ok 

 my old ears are probably not the best reference tool ... 

and now we are at shrubby guitars  ... yep, that is supposed to sound like that I think  Oh, fancy guitar solo ... ears still not bleeding ... that's a good sign, no? 

Not sure I want to do that track again with the lasdolod


----------



## actorlife (Jul 27, 2019)

Caipirina said:


> Bit tricky to judge, as I don't really know the track ... this slight distortion in the guitar is intended I guess? But I can say that the guy's screaming .. i mean emotional singing comes across sibilance free on the XG13 .. but if my ears like it? not really ... cymbals also seem ok
> 
> my old ears are probably not the best reference tool ...
> 
> ...



His voice is old school kinda soul like Sam Cooke/Otis Redding/Terence Tent Darby. I got into 50's/60's music in the 80's as a teen, so I can hear his influence. This track demonstrate great audio recording. The clarity is just great. If my TWS can't sound clear on that demo then it's going back. So far two have gone back and partial refund on a 3rd. Yes slight distortion on the guitar. I'd say listen to the 359 first and then compare the others.


----------



## BigZ12

If you want to hear an amazing track for testing (female) vocals, listen to this. The bass and highs (details) are also wonderful produced, but when she starts to sing... wow, the voice hit you with an unbelievable softness and clarity! 
My Lypertek Tevis sound amazing with most music I listen to, but they really shine with this Kari Bremnes track (the best sounding album I've heard). 
This track also shows how much better AAC/AptX sound compared to SBC. 
The volume on the album is a bit low, so you need to turn up the volume a bit more than normal. 

BTW, the Tevis is the best sounding buds I've had, and I have/have had B&O E8 2.0, Senn' MTW, Anbes 359 etc. I actually prefer the sound on the Tevis to my Sony WH-1000MX3 :O


----------



## PopZeus

chinmie said:


> glad to help! it also gave me the same headache when i first got it, until i found the way to do it



Not to bother you again. This is addressed to anyone who knows what's up... Now the issue for me is that I have to manually pair the BT20 to my iPhone everytime I turn it off then back on, as if it was a brand new device. Is that really how this product is supposed to work, or am I just missing something?


----------



## actorlife

BigZ12 said:


> If you want to hear an amazing track for testing (female) vocals, listen to this. The bass and highs (details) are also wonderful produced, but when she starts to sing... wow, the voice hit you with an unbelievable softness and clarity!
> My Lypertek Tevis sound amazing with most music I listen to, but they really shine with this Kari Bremnes track (the best sounding album I've heard).
> This track also shows how much better AAC/AptX sound compared to SBC.
> The volume on the album is a bit low, so you need to turn up the volume a bit more than normal.
> ...



Stop bragging haha I want those TEVIS. Darn you're in norway was gonna ask for a loan. Awww BigZ12 you change avatar, grunt.


----------



## BigZ12

actorlife said:


> Stop bragging haha I want those TEVIS. Darn you're in norway was gonna ask for a loan. Awww BigZ12 you change avatar, grunt.


Just kidding, they are crap.





Loan? No way, Norway


----------



## actorlife

BigZ12 said:


> Just kidding, they are crap.
> 
> Loan? No way, Norway


I know didn't notice cause your avatar changed and again haha


----------



## Slater

n33t said:


> If you have it it would be great, i tried to search for it yesterday but didn't find anything



http://www.52audio.com/archives/8918.html


----------



## Slater

Guys, somehow my QCY QS1 lost the connection to my phone.

I was able to delete the connection and re-pair the L one, but not the right one.

Does anyone have the instructions on how to do the master reset, re-pair, and L/R resync?

I tried searching this thread for the information, and I found multiple posts telling people to do it to solve thee various problems, but I was unable to find the actual instructions.

Thanks, I really appreciate it!


----------



## clerkpalmer

if anyone wants my once used anbes 359, I’ll do 25 shipped via fist class mail conus only.


BigZ12 said:


> If you want to hear an amazing track for testing (female) vocals, listen to this. The bass and highs (details) are also wonderful produced, but when she starts to sing... wow, the voice hit you with an unbelievable softness and clarity!
> My Lypertek Tevis sound amazing with most music I listen to, but they really shine with this Kari Bremnes track (the best sounding album I've heard).
> This track also shows how much better AAC/AptX sound compared to SBC.
> The volume on the album is a bit low, so you need to turn up the volume a bit more than normal.
> ...



is there something special about these to result in this sq? Balanced armatures? Graphene? Unicorn magic? Really better than mtw?


----------



## earache

Slater said:


> Guys, somehow my QCY QS1 lost the connection to my phone.
> 
> I was able to delete the connection and re-pair the L one, but not the right one.
> 
> ...




Try it a couple of times. I had the same issue. Delete all connections and try it again. On the one second press and release I let go of the left first. I had to do it a couple of times when trying to pair it to different devices.


----------



## chinmie

PopZeus said:


> Not to bother you again. This is addressed to anyone who knows what's up... Now the issue for me is that I have to manually pair the BT20 to my iPhone everytime I turn it off then back on, as if it was a brand new device. Is that really how this product is supposed to work, or am I just missing something?



is it manually pair as in like new /first pairing? or it's already on the bluetooth devices list, but you have to manually click the name to pair? 

if it's the first, try resetting the BT20. if it's the latter, i only experienced it if i use it alternately between several devices. it should however connect automatically to the last used device



Slater said:


> Guys, somehow my QCY QS1 lost the connection to my phone.
> 
> I was able to delete the connection and re-pair the L one, but not the right one.
> 
> ...



from off position, press and hold the buttons until they turn on and off themselves again (usually about 10 seconds process). after that turn them on again like usual.. let them connect to each other first before turning on the bluetooth on your phone

usually it's the same procedure to master reset most TWS


----------



## Tavleen Suri

Anbes 359 and kissral r18 are they the same ??? Forgive me if I got the names wrong....and how much do they usually go for ???

And which wud be the best place to order these as many have mentioned on the forum not getting the original buds


----------



## Slater (Jul 27, 2019)

chinmie said:


> from off position, press and hold the buttons until they turn on and off themselves again (usually about 10 seconds process). after that turn them on again like usual.. let them connect to each other first before turning on the bluetooth on your phone
> 
> usually it's the same procedure to master reset most TWS



Which one to I actually pair with my phone? Because when I go to pairing, I see a QCY_R and a QCY_L. If I pair the R, I only get sound out of the right. If I pair the L, I only get sound from the L.

The QCY can be used independently from one another, but when they are both synced, the R is the ‘master’.

This is so frustrating. I should have kept the damn instructions.

_Update: I got it figured out. I was able to find the instructions and got it squared away by following them. Thanks for the help 

For anyone interested (or for future reference), here’s the QCY QS1/T1C reset and repairing procedure:


 
_


----------



## david8613

Slater said:


> Guys, somehow my QCY QS1 lost the connection to my phone.
> 
> I was able to delete the connection and re-pair the L one, but not the right one.
> 
> ...




I had the same problem with tranya t3, you have to find out how to do a full reset its different proceedure from just unpairing. Google it I'm sure you will find a video, I posted the video for the tranya t3 a couple of pages back.


----------



## Slater

david8613 said:


> I had the same problem with tranya t3, you have to find out how to do a full reset its different proceedure from just unpairing. Google it I'm sure you will find a video, I posted the video for the tranya t3 a couple of pages back.



You are correct sir. I found the full reset procedure in the instruction manual (which I thought I had thrown away, but luckily I had kept it for just such an occasion).

I posted the instructions in the post above your post, in case you want to check them out


----------



## chinmie

Slater said:


> Which one to I actually pair with my phone? Because when I go to pairing, I see a QCY_R and a QCY_L. If I pair the R, I only get sound out of the right. If I pair the L, I only get sound from the L.
> 
> The QCY can be used independently from one another, but when they are both synced, the R is the ‘master’.
> 
> ...



on mine, the R is the master unit


----------



## actorlife (Jul 28, 2019)

Tavleen Suri said:


> Anbes 359 and kissral r18 are they the same ??? Forgive me if I got the names wrong....and how much do they usually go for ???
> 
> And which wud be the best place to order these as many have mentioned on the forum not getting the original buds


HI yes both the same. They are $30 when on sale. $40-45 usual price on aliexpress(ask to see the box pic if anbes logo on there you are good) or amazon. If you have trouble finding them then I'd go for the Mpow T5 or Hopshoop W1.


----------



## tsoltan




----------



## BigZ12 (Jul 28, 2019)

clerkpalmer said:


> is there something special about these to result in this sq? Balanced armatures? Graphene? Unicorn magic? Really better than mtw?


Yes, graphene  but mostly magic Unicorn dust and a couple of beers... I don't have the MTW longer to compare, and I may have used big words when enjoying my cold brew to chill with this tropic heat we're having at the moment.

That said, they really are good. And compared to the MTW, they have much better battery life, NO noise like crackles, SBC metallic noise in the left caused by NFMI, no battery case drainage, better IPX rating. So all in all I'm a happy customer.

MTW has the transparent mode, touch controls and AptX LL, and when not focusing on the noises (that's why I returned them) they sound very good of course.

And; $89,90 vs $300? I'd take the Tevis everytime.


----------



## BigZ12

clerkpalmer said:


> is there something special about these to result in this sq? Balanced armatures? Graphene? Unicorn magic? Really better than mtw?


A nice guy I've chatted with regarding noise on the MTW, bought the Tevis before me at Jaben in Melbourne. He wrote me among other things: (I hope I'm allowed to quote this)

"The sound is quite neutral with a slight 'V' shape but its balanced all at the same time...if that makes sense? its not colored audio like Senns or Sabbats. The guy at Jaben put the sound between Senns and B&O's, not sure if that's true since I haven't heard the B&O's..."
"Ok. 100% happy with the lypertek tavi, my ears have adjusted to the slight V shaped sound and now I love it. My other earphones sound muddy now haha."
"The clarity is certainly there over sabbats and it’s cleaner then the senns"
"Happily trade the lower codec and transparent mode for the battery and sound!"

So I'm not alone thinking they are good.


----------



## d3myz

Don't know if anyone already posted this, but the Mpow T5 is still available on amazon in the US for $45.99


----------



## Soreniglio (Jul 28, 2019)

Guys, anyone knows how I can crack my QCY T1C open? I heard of people opening them to check whether some cables moved, or if there was something in the way, like worn off glue or else.

I'll explain you why: my right bud fell from my hands once, but it was like a 30 cm fall, even so, now it sounds lower than the left, and I wanna check if something is off 

Some people seemed to have fixed the issue by cracking them open, cleaning them with a pin or something, and then glueing them back. I'm a bit worried because I'm not really handy in these things.


Anyways, I decided to go for the QCY on the long run, I like the sound of Anbes better, but the fit is a real issue, their teardrop shape can't seem to fit in my big ears...


----------



## Slater

Soreniglio said:


> Guys, anyone knows how I can crack my QCY T1C open? I heard of people opening them to check whether some cables moved, or if there was something in the way, like worn off glue or else.
> 
> I'll explain you why: my right bud fell from my hands once, but it was like a 30 cm fall, even so, now it sounds lower than the left, and I wanna check if something is off
> 
> ...



https://www.head-fi.org/threads/goi...re-we-there-yet.861024/page-652#post-15087151


----------



## actorlife

tsoltan said:


>



Thanks for posting this. For SQ 8.8?


----------



## tsoltan

actorlife said:


> Thanks for posting this. For SQ 8.8?


We need a Tai expert here =)


----------



## clerkpalmer

tsoltan said:


> We need a Tai expert here =)


Either way getting excited.  Mine shipped already. Hoping it’s 2 weeks not 4. Comon Ali!


----------



## actorlife

tsoltan said:


> We need a Tai expert here =)


Hopefully asak will translate. I do hope they are exactly like my ZST. Since both have BA/Dynamic drivers.


----------



## Bartig (Jul 28, 2019)

Oh my, I may have posted my review on the Wavefun X-Pods 3/ Ytom T1/ W1 TWS too soon. I really love the mids on this one. Highs don't extend as well as on the Jabra Elite 65t, but they do offer fuller lower mids and a quicker bass.




On the other hand; I notice I always put the Anbes 359 away after a few minutes now, to change them for a tws I find to sound better - such as the above mentioned or the QCY QS1/ T1C which has just that little extra bass oomph over the Anbes.

This is a great hobby, isn't it?


----------



## FYLegend (Jul 28, 2019)

Still waiting anxiously for my Firefly Pro and UFO...


----------



## FYLegend

Bartig said:


> Oh my, I may have posted my review on the Wavefun X-Pods 3/ Ytom T1/ W1 TWS too soon. I really love the mids on this one. Highs don't extend as well as on the Jabra Elite 65t, but they do offer fuller lower mids and a quicker bass.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Does the Wavefun charge Type C to C or just Type C to A? Is the seal and isolation better than the Jabras?

I also recall one of their Alibaba OEMS made a  Breathing Light spaceship pod TWS with Alien lights on the buds.


----------



## chinmie

Bartig said:


> Oh my, I may have posted my review on the Wavefun X-Pods 3/ Ytom T1/ W1 TWS too soon. I really love the mids on this one. Highs don't extend as well as on the Jabra Elite 65t, but they do offer fuller lower mids and a quicker bass.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



how's the overall sound compared to the T1C?

also there's a new find recently on AE, it says to have USB-C, button and touch controls, and also app for GPS locator 

 

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000028275856.html


also has anyone here tried this? 

 
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32980824739.html

it goes by different brand, but the unit code is usually T50 TWS. it says to have BA driver, though the picture is displaying DD driver (confusing). reviews in AE seems pretty positive, and saying it has a good connection and balanced sound.


----------



## howdy

over 100 pages since the last time i was here, this thread is moving along fast,

Has anyone seen or heard anything about the new Hifiman true wireless? Ive always thought there Headphones where some of the best and hopefully this will hold true with the wireless buds.


----------



## clerkpalmer

howdy said:


> over 100 pages since the last time i was here, this thread is moving along fast,
> 
> Has anyone seen or heard anything about the new Hifiman true wireless? Ive always thought there Headphones where some of the best and hopefully this will hold true with the wireless buds.


Early reviews are lukewarm. Apparently very little bass and possibly shrill highs. Maybe they have or will fix them but for now, I’d suggest holding off unless that sound signature is what you like.


----------



## howdy

clerkpalmer said:


> Early reviews are lukewarm. Apparently very little bass and possibly shrill highs. Maybe they have or will fix them but for now, I’d suggest holding off unless that sound signature is what you like.


I hope that changes. The price is reasonable for a Hifiman product and the stats look really good. Hopefully they re-tune them to add more bass. The Senns are still my favorite sounding TWS and would be hard to beat.


----------



## clerkpalmer

howdy said:


> I hope that changes. The price is reasonable for a Hifiman product and the stats look really good. Hopefully they re-tune them to add more bass. The Senns are still my favorite sounding TWS and would be hard to beat.


Agreed. I have edition XX and they are just amazing. Hopefully they will fix them.  THe Sony May upend your mtw and probably is a better option than the hifiman. I get mine Wednesday and will report back.


----------



## howdy

clerkpalmer said:


> Agreed. I have edition XX and they are just amazing. Hopefully they will fix them.  THe Sony May upend your mtw and probably is a better option than the hifiman. I get mine Wednesday and will report back.


I was eyeing those big time! Hopefully they have more volume then the first iteration which was the only reason i sold mine. cant wait to read your impressions on them. If you like them i might have to hit up best buy and get a pair.


----------



## FYLegend (Jul 28, 2019)

Sounds too good to be true for a Sabbat E12 lol https://www.amazon.ca/BreTT1QIN9-Re...=sabbat&qid=1564133289&s=gateway&sr=8-43&th=1

Anyone tried these before?

https://www.amazon.ca/dp/B07TGBC46P...colid=4G6BQG39EQ05&psc=1&ref_=lv_ov_lig_dp_it

July 27 has come and gone and Anbes 359 still not in Amazon.com stock. There is a potentially dubious third-party seller though. Still better than Amazon.ca with no Anbes 359, ripoff Kissral R18 and UFOs including Monster (although I think that one still seems worth trying). https://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/B07M8LWN2G/ref=dp_olp_0?ie=UTF8&condition=all


----------



## riodgarp

has anyone experienced that tws inside it's charging case keep charging when shaken? or is it my tws a little bit unstable because of removing the tips?


----------



## vstolpner

FYLegend said:


> Sounds too good to be true for a Sabbat E12 lol https://www.amazon.ca/BreTT1QIN9-Re...=sabbat&qid=1564133289&s=gateway&sr=8-43&th=1
> 
> Anyone tried these before?
> 
> ...



You can always try those Sabbat and if it's not true ones then raise issue with Amazon...



riodgarp said:


> has anyone experienced that tws inside it's charging case keep charging when shaken? or is it my tws a little bit unstable because of removing the tips?



Yeah, this happens because the pins momentarily lose contact with the earphones and then start charging again. They should only charge for less than a minute before showing "full charge" indicator.


----------



## PopZeus (Jul 28, 2019)

chinmie said:


> is it manually pair as in like new /first pairing? or it's already on the bluetooth devices list, but you have to manually click the name to pair?
> 
> if it's the first, try resetting the BT20. if it's the latter, i only experienced it if i use it alternately between several devices. it should however connect automatically to the last used device
> 
> ...



Thanks, that worked! The instruction booklet wasn’t all that clear. Shout out to the hive brain at head-fi. Now I know the basics to this weird, wonderful world of the BT20. Other than the hiss and funky pairing procedure, this is a really excellent sounding product for not a lot of money.


----------



## asak

tsoltan said:


>




My Thai isn't all that good, so some of the descriptive language that's fairly specific, like describing how headphones sound is tricky lol. But I will try. 

Says the earphones are focused to music sound quality. Sound is what you would expect from a dual driver. Bass is tight, midrange is warm but layered. And recommends it for Acoustical and EDM music. 

It does seem pretty good. They also reviewed the new Sony WF-1000xm3 and those scored higher, but comparatively these are not too far off.


----------



## zeppu08

Can anyone take a pic of the mpow t5 in there ears? Just want to see how they look like and how  they protrude in the ears.. looks huge imo.


----------



## albau

How the hell I check the charge level on T5, of buds and the case itself? Of all the tws I have/had it seems the most non obvious. On mw07 you put buds in the case close the lid and voila - three color leds show you the charge level of each bud and the case itself. 65t is similar with the benefit of having charge level led on each bud. Even 359 have some reasonable indicators. What’s up with t5? It’s ridiculous if I always have to plug the case to see the battery level. Because otherwise leds are always dark whether buds inside or not when I close the lid. And how do I know the charge level of each individual bud?


----------



## vstolpner

asak said:


> My Thai isn't all that good, so some of the descriptive language that's fairly specific, like describing how headphones sound is tricky lol. But I will try.
> 
> Says the earphones are focused to music sound quality. Sound is what you would expect from a dual driver. Bass is tight, midrange is warm but layered. And recommends it for Acoustical and EDM music.
> 
> It does seem pretty good. They also reviewed the new Sony WF-1000xm3 and those scored higher, but comparatively these are not too far off.



Thank you!!!


----------



## bronco1015

So, Wednesday the mpow T5 and the MeeAudio X10 both arrived. The x10 was,...horrible! did get a fairly good seal once figured out how they needed to fit in the ear, but they are very cheaply built, the case honestly feels like a plastic cheap kids toy. they kind of haphazardly sit in the case, but seem to not displace easily. they actually sound okay, but not a lot of mids just felt like they were pulled back not quite dialed in all the way if you will. mos tof the time, they cut out, get out of sync and have that weird echoy mono like sound, and the right bud has this killer ambiant thing going on where i could hear things very clearly from 2 rooms away and behind a closed door. But it was very nicely implemented and played over the top of the music in a freakishly natural way. They're definitely going back.
The T5s are loud!. Forward and loud!. Full hard hitting bass, with some sloppy sub bass imo, but really a fun sound over all, perfect for the gym, the shower obviously, as d3myz can attest to haha. They also have great call quality. I think they'll stay.


----------



## tsoltan

asak said:


> My Thai isn't all that good, so some of the descriptive language that's fairly specific, like describing how headphones sound is tricky lol. But I will try.
> 
> Says the earphones are focused to music sound quality. Sound is what you would expect from a dual driver. Bass is tight, midrange is warm but layered. And recommends it for Acoustical and EDM music.
> 
> It does seem pretty good. They also reviewed the new Sony WF-1000xm3 and those scored higher, but comparatively these are not too far off.


 
Thank you.
Also on Russian forum 4pda I saw a message from aliexpress seller - he wrote that the quantity of KZ T1 is limited - and won't be manufactured in future(looks like his assumption).
Anyway if it sounds better than sony - it should be must-have tws.


----------



## slipstreamrider

zeppu08 said:


> Can anyone take a pic of the mpow t5 in there ears? Just want to see how they look like and how  they protrude in the ears.. looks huge imo.


----------



## Bartig

FYLegend said:


> Does the Wavefun charge Type C to C or just Type C to A? Is the seal and isolation better than the Jabras?
> 
> I also recall one of their Alibaba OEMS made a  Breathing Light spaceship pod TWS with Alien lights on the buds.


The seal and isolation are better than on the Jabra's for me. I don't really get your charging question, but it charges via usb-c. 



chinmie said:


> how's the overall sound compared to the T1C?
> 
> also there's a new find recently on AE, it says to have USB-C, button and touch controls, and also app for GPS locator
> 
> ...


Compared to the T1C, the Wavefun has more natural mids. The bass on the T1C is more minimal, but more textured. It's a bit sloppy on the Wavefun.

Even though many user reviews seem fake, the T50 TWS is coming my way. Unfortunately, it's sent from mainland China, so it takes a loooong time to arrive.


----------



## JimmyR

Looks like my beloved Sabbat E12 has been upgraded with the a new Qualcomm chipset. 
For the moment, it's only listed in the Alibaba site - https://www.alibaba.com/product-det....galleryofferlist.normalList.1.789c4f92xcjDTm - for consumer shops to buy in bulk.
We can expect it to become available within the next weeks or months on AliExpress and other similar sites. This may be artificially push back a bit, till the brand runs out of stock on the current version
Unfortunately, the info does not the specify the Qualcomm chipset (I'd bet on the qcc3020).
If this upgrade solves the call quality issues (on paper, they should have cVc 8.0) of the one today and improve the connectivity, these buds are back to the game.


----------



## chinmie

Bartig said:


> The seal and isolation are better than on the Jabra's for me. I don't really get your charging question, but it charges via usb-c.
> 
> 
> Compared to the T1C, the Wavefun has more natural mids. The bass on the T1C is more minimal, but more textured. It's a bit sloppy on the Wavefun.
> ...



thanks! i think I'll pass the wavefun for now, because the T1C bass is big enough as it is, and i figure sloppier bass might get boomy and lost in the street noise. the T1C is my designated motorcycle riding TWS for now as no other TWS or IEMs provide the balanced noise/wind blocking and ability to hear some crucial street sound like the T1C

I'll be on the lookout for your T50 review


----------



## Dcell7

Bartig said:


> I don't really get your charging question, but it charges via usb-c.



What he means is, is the cable on both sides usb-c ? Or is it usb-c on 1 side and "regular" big USB (aka usb-a) on the other side ?


----------



## Bartig

Dcell7 said:


> What he means is, is the cable on both sides usb-c ? Or is it usb-c on 1 side and "regular" big USB (aka usb-a) on the other side ?


The latter.


----------



## vstolpner

JimmyR said:


> Looks like my beloved Sabbat E12 has been upgraded with the a new Qualcomm chipset.
> For the moment, it's only listed in the Alibaba site - https://www.alibaba.com/product-det....galleryofferlist.normalList.1.789c4f92xcjDTm - for consumer shops to buy in bulk.
> We can expect it to become available within the next weeks or months on AliExpress and other similar sites. This may be artificially push back a bit, till the brand runs out of stock on the current version
> Unfortunately, the info does not the specify the Qualcomm chipset (I'd bet on the qcc3020).
> If this upgrade solves the call quality issues (on paper, they should have cVc 8.0) of the one today and improve the connectivity, these buds are back to the game.


Minimum order quantity is 1..... You can always just order from there directly


----------



## JimmyR

vstolpner said:


> Minimum order quantity is 1..... You can always just order from there directly



True. Problem with ordering in Alibaba is the shipping costs. Remember this is a wholesale portal and those vendors are used to sell a good amount of units per transaction. Rarely, shipping costs are free or inexpensive when you're ordering just 1 unit. It's not like you can add something to the cart, check it out and have free or 1 US$ shipping costs. 

In addition, I'd see advisable to let them go through the retail shops and check some reviews before. My point here is that is not probably a good idea to buy the Sabbat E12 now. Better wait till the ones with the Qualcomm chipset are out on the street. Looking at the wholesale price of the new vs the older, I think that the retail price will be roughly the same. 
What I'm clear now is that I wouldn't buy any chi-fi TWS that does not not come with one of the Qualcomm chipsets (qcc3020 or 3026). We're starting to see some models bringing them at affordable prices (WaveFun X-Pods 3/YTOM T1 being likely the most affordable today, with other such as the Syllable, Edifier TWS1 and the like) and we can expect this trend is going to keep on within the next months. AptX support, separate bud connectivity, lower energy consumption and therefore longer overall battery life and better call quality (cVc 8.0) are goodies one don´t want to pass.

Of course, for SQ there are many other factors that matter such as overall design, driver build quality, shell design to account for optimal resonance and some others, but I'd say the qcc's always add up to the final product. 

Just keep in mind that most all the cheap Chi-fi brands dont invest in their own R&D and are essentially assemblers of components engineered and improved by individual component makers or just plain OEMs where they only stamp their brand and "market" finished white-label products made by others. That means that the ones actually driving the real innovation on the TWS are the component manufacturers.


----------



## chinmie

powerbeats clone, anyone? 

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000036361640.html


----------



## vstolpner

JimmyR said:


> True. Problem with ordering in Alibaba is the shipping costs. Remember this is a wholesale portal and those vendors are used to sell a good amount of units per transaction. Rarely, shipping costs are free or inexpensive when you're ordering just 1 unit. It's not like you can add something to the cart, check it out and have free or 1 US$ shipping costs.
> 
> In addition, I'd see advisable to let them go through the retail shops and check some reviews before. My point here is that is not probably a good idea to buy the Sabbat E12 now. Better wait till the ones with the Qualcomm chipset are out on the street. Looking at the wholesale price of the new vs the older, I think that the retail price will be roughly the same.
> What I'm clear now is that I wouldn't buy any chi-fi TWS that does not not come with one of the Qualcomm chipsets (qcc3020 or 3026). We're starting to see some models bringing them at affordable prices (WaveFun X-Pods 3/YTOM T1 being likely the most affordable today, with other such as the Syllable, Edifier TWS1 and the like) and we can expect this trend is going to keep on within the next months. AptX support, separate bud connectivity, lower energy consumption and therefore longer overall battery life and better call quality (cVc 8.0) are goodies one don´t want to pass.
> ...



Totally agree with what your saying.
I'm terms of shipping costs - I think they're usually pretty reasonable within China, so you just need to use a service that receives your orders and bulk ships then to you. I've seen a few around but haven't used them to know of any specific


----------



## Gokuz

Bartig said:


> .



Any chance you could do side by side size comparison of the cases you review? 

Mpow seems extremely huge compared to the others, doubt it could fit in my jeans, if you have airpods case would be better, currently using that and it fits my pockets perfectly.


----------



## vstolpner

Gokuz said:


> Any chance you could do side by side size comparison of the cases you review?
> 
> Mpow seems extremely huge compared to the others, doubt it could fit in my jeans, if you have airpods case would be better, currently using that and it fits my pockets perfectly.



I'm actually about to put up my review of the T5's and have comparison photos with Tranya T3 and Anbes 359.

The T5's really aren't pocketable in my opinion. T3's are better but the 359's are actually the closest to pocketable. They're all bigger than AirPods obviously


----------



## vstolpner (Jul 29, 2019)

Got my Mpow T5 review up!

DId this one as a comparitive review with the Anbes 359 and Tranya T3's as well.


----------



## Boreaquis

vstolpner said:


> Got my Mpow T5 review up!
> 
> DId this one as a comparitive review with the Anbes 359 and Tranya T3's as well.



Nice. Got any others planned? I'd love a comparison to the Nillkin Go, as I'm pretty hyped for mine to arrive. I'll get it this week unless customs decide to make me wait, but I've not got any of the other budget favourites to compare it to.


----------



## vstolpner

Boreaquis said:


> Nice. Got any others planned? I'd love a comparison to the Nillkin Go, as I'm pretty hyped for mine to arrive. I'll get it this week unless customs decide to make me wait, but I've not got any of the other budget favourites to compare it to.



Nothing in the meantime.... Maybe the new KZ's, not sure yet... Really want to see the new 1more hybrids once they finally come out....


----------



## howdy

Not sure if this has covered but there is a new update/Firmware for the Sennheiser TW. You can shut them off via the App and a few other goodies.


----------



## clerkpalmer

howdy said:


> Not sure if this has covered but there is a new update/Firmware for the Sennheiser TW. You can shut them off via the App and a few other goodies.


That's a pretty meaningful update since it solves the problem of not being able to turn them off when the case is dead.


----------



## actorlife (Jul 29, 2019)

vstolpner said:


> Got my Mpow T5 review up!
> 
> DId this one as a comparitive review with the Anbes 359 and Tranya T3's as well.


Bahaha Christmas tree decoration. Great review well done. What was the blurry bokeh pic about? Send back the T3.


----------



## vstolpner

actorlife said:


> Bahaha Christmas tree decoration. Great review well done. What was the blurry bokeh pic about? Send back the T3.



Thanks 

That was probably a loading issue on your end - mine were all in focus 

And I'm kind of thinking of sending back the T3, but then I'm also thinking that while the T5 is great, it's not portable enough, and then those connectivity issues.... Anyway, I have a few more days to decide about the T3's....
Who knows, maybe I'll just sell my 359's


----------



## actorlife

vstolpner said:


> Thanks
> *Who knows, maybe I'll just sell my 359's *


I doubt it no blingy stuff for kids and wife to look at or hear.


----------



## jant71

I'll update on my experience with the Backbay Duet 50. IPX 5 and I have been cooling of under the sprinkler fountain at the park with no ill effects  Wind noise is not an issue and bone conduction isn't loud at all and no bother with music or podcasts playing. Aptx and thr right tips will get very solid sound out of them well worth the under $40 price tag. I'll not that they have independent volume control. Not all my BT5/0 stuff does and just turns the player volume. So, I can indeed lower the MP3 player volume down and put the battery strain more on the earbuds. Useful for me when a device states 6 hours of BT and That isn't even combining FM reception and then BT broadcasting which I do at times.

I like the fit. They can lean out a bit at the top with bigger tips, that I recc. for the better sound but then I can do the thumb forefinger pinch to press the button and not do the push the buds in thing. Much better this way! I get the double beep signal when top volume is reached and the other beep to tell you to let go when you FF or RW. They have behaved without issue as well.

Only real issue is that bigger tips are better but they don't fit in the case easily. A little push is needed and you can just drop them in with the magnetic force. Softer large tips like Sony hybrids will turn inside out upon removal from the case which is an annoyance.

Solid for there price and are keepers for me. If they did upgrade to an $99 model with their EQ built in, even better sound, and over double digit battery life I would be interested after my experience with the Duet 50. For now the Duet 50 will certainly be fine to hold me over till some such better models come forth with more features. Provided the Duet 50 hold up which we'll see since you can long term test after a week.

______________________________________________________________________________________________


On another note what about modified SBC(mSBC0 and SBC XQ???


*"Bluetooth SBC Dual Channel HD audio mode (SBC XQ)*





LineageOS 15.1 and 16.0 bring a unique audio quality enhancement to the stock Bluetooth SBC audio codec. It introduces support for SBC Dual Channel mode with the eXtreme quality profile (SBC XQ), bumping this old codec’s audio quality to levels on par with Qualcomm’s proprietary codec - aptX HD.

An additional “HD Audio: SBC” checkbox is available in users’ Bluetooth audio device settings, as long as they are running a LineageOS 15.1 build created on or after the 31st of March 2019, or a 16.0 build created on or after the 13th of May 2019. Enabling this setting will toggle the Dual Channel mode, which offers an improved bitrate much higher than the one available in the stock SBC codec. The new bitrate of 452 or 551 kbps depends on the Bluetooth device’s maximum Enhanced Data Rate and is a clear upgrade from the stock 328 kbps when using Joint Stereo mode.

The feature is available on all devices with LineageOS support, and can be used by the overwhelming majority of existing Bluetooth playback devices. It works best with cheaper audio devices that do not support additional codecs - aptX, aptX HD, AAC or LDAC."

Would seem to pretty cool to take advantage of SBC since we all know it is capable of higher bitrate and would seem to make sense like it says above for cheaper devices which don't pay for the rights to aptX and such. Just don't know how much we will see this. i did see a couple of headphones just being released listing support for both SBC and mSBC.


----------



## Gokuz

Anyone knows of any chi-fi that has internal storage? So far its only iconx/bragi and this indiegogo, 

https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/sportfy-internal-storage-true-wireless-earbuds#/

What gives? Even if it holds 100mb of songs i would be extremely happy with it.


----------



## vstolpner

Gokuz said:


> Anyone knows of any chi-fi that has internal storage? So far its only iconx/bragi and this indiegogo,
> 
> https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/sportfy-internal-storage-true-wireless-earbuds#/
> 
> What gives? Even if it holds 100mb of songs i would be extremely happy with it.



Probably due to increased costs and complexities, and size constraints.... Means you have to have separate storage soldered on and a more complex chipset that can decide and process the files. Not to mention an interface for loading those songs to begin with. 

Until chipset manufacturers start combining all of that into a single chipset, you won't see many implementations from Chi-Fi TWE's.


----------



## Bartig

vstolpner said:


> Got my Mpow T5 review up!
> 
> DId this one as a comparitive review with the Anbes 359 and Tranya T3's as well.


Good review and comparison!


----------



## hifi80sman

howdy said:


> Not sure if this has covered but there is a new update/Firmware for the Sennheiser TW. You can shut them off via the App and a few other goodies.


What's the Firmware Version?  Nothing is coming up for me.


----------



## TontonRay

vstolpner said:


> Got my Mpow T5 review up!
> 
> DId this one as a comparitive review with the Anbes 359 and Tranya T3's as well.


Thanks for the review! Strange that you are facing connection/drop out issues, I have no problem with mine.. Which version do you have? I know that the upgraded version 
solved some connection issues of the older model. Mine is BH322B.


----------



## vstolpner

Bartig said:


> Good review and comparison!



Thanks!

Just noticed we have a very similar leader board


----------



## FYLegend

JimmyR said:


> Looks like my beloved Sabbat E12 has been upgraded with the a new Qualcomm chipset.
> For the moment, it's only listed in the Alibaba site - https://www.alibaba.com/product-det....galleryofferlist.normalList.1.789c4f92xcjDTm - for consumer shops to buy in bulk.
> We can expect it to become available within the next weeks or months on AliExpress and other similar sites. This may be artificially push back a bit, till the brand runs out of stock on the current version
> Unfortunately, the info does not the specify the Qualcomm chipset (I'd bet on the qcc3020).
> If this upgrade solves the call quality issues (on paper, they should have cVc 8.0) of the one today and improve the connectivity, these buds are back to the game.


d'oh, I just bought one the other day!



Bartig said:


> The seal and isolation are better than on the Jabra's for me. I don't really get your charging question, but it charges via usb-c.


Some of the cheap TWS that have type C connectors can only charge using Type C to Type A cables, because they're just using a USB 2.0 interface with a modified connector to save costs. It's fine for most people but this means you can't directly charge it off a Macbook or Google Pixel charger using a Type C to Type C cable (USB PD charging), unless you use an adapter on a Type-C-to-A cable on the power source end. For example, Anbes 359, Astrotec S60, RHA Trueconnect can't support PD charging but it does work on the Earfun Free.


----------



## vstolpner (Jul 29, 2019)

TontonRay said:


> Thanks for the review! Strange that you are facing connection/drop out issues, I have no problem with mine.. Which version do you have? I know that the upgraded version
> solved some connection issues of the older model. Mine is BH322B.



Pretty sure it's the latest, will have to confirm. The connectivity issues are mostly when I'm kneeling down, oddly enough in terms of drop outs. Otherwise it's things like connecting as if on a call, or couple times one of the buds wouldn't connect so I have to reset that one.

Maybe it's just a defective unit

Edit: Yep, mine is BH322B as well


----------



## dhc0329

I am using the Tranya T3 Sports Wireless and having real good result especially on run time. For its price I think it performs nicely.


----------



## howdy

hifi80sman said:


> What's the Firmware Version?  Nothing is coming up for me.


1.26
I'm on Android


----------



## vstolpner

dhc0329 said:


> I am using the Tranya T3 Sports Wireless and having real good result especially on run time. For its price I think it performs nicely.



Totally agree, the Tranya T3 are a fantastic buy. Especially if you can find them on sale.

Have you tried the Mpow T5? Just reviewed those and really enjoying their sound (listening to them right this moment actually)


----------



## turbobb (Jul 29, 2019)

jant71 said:


> I'll update on my experience with the Backbay Duet 50...  So, I can indeed lower the MP3 player volume down and put the battery strain more on the earbuds.
> ...
> On another note what about modified SBC(mSBC0 and SBC XQ???


So... I may not be an audio engineer but I'm reasonably certain that's not how it works. Given BT volume control between source and buds are purely digital, though you set the source volume lower and crank up the earbuds, it ultimately still only affects the earbuds' battery life (happy to be proven wrong by those in the know though )

SBC XQ is intriguing... I haven't heard of that particular implementation but as far as the base SBC codec goes, I've found there has always been a larger variation to its implementation; I've heard some really good ones (like Jaybird X2 - though not TWE) and I've heard really poor ones from cheap chi-fi units, thus the general desire for alternative codecs like aptX, AAC, LDAC, etc. which tend to be a bit more consistent with better implementation.


----------



## vstolpner (Jul 29, 2019)

Anbes 359 copy (just different case) - Letsfit Wireless Earbuds (BE32?) are on daily deals for a couple more hours for $27.

Anyone going to try these out?








Edit: Ok this is too funny - so are another clone - Letscom True Wireless Earbuds (BE32 as well!) on for $34 after coupon.


----------



## actorlife

vstolpner said:


> Anbes 359 copy (just different case) - Letsfit Wireless Earbuds (BE32?) are on daily deals for a couple more hours for $27.
> 
> Anyone going to try these out?


I wish. Darn it. U gonna try? Maybe cianihi guy? Is that how you spell it? On another subject Humidity is so bad urg


----------



## Dobrescu George

I think this one belongs right in this thread


----------



## jant71

turbobb said:


> So... I may not be an audio engineer but I'm reasonably certain that's not how it works. Given BT volume control between source and buds are purely digital, though you set the source volume lower and crank up the earbuds, it ultimately still only affects the earbuds' battery life (happy to be proven wrong by those in the know though )
> 
> SBC XQ is intriguing... I haven't heard of that particular implementation but as far as the base SBC codec goes, I've found there has always been a larger variation to its implementation; I've heard some really good ones (like Jaybird X2 - though not TWE) and I've heard really poor ones from cheap chi-fi units, thus the general desire for alternative codecs like aptX, AAC, LDAC, etc. which tend to be a bit more consistent with better implementation.



Depends on device. The one I have I can plug in and listen with BT on will take a hit esp. with FM use. Others the HO is off and I plug in and get no sound till I shut BT. The one that keeps both does drain more, IME, and thankfully is one that is independent so I can turn the BB all the way up and turn the device from 23 volume to 13 and it does help.  

I would think that SBC XQ could be good for the Chi-Fi segment esp. if they can save paying dollars to Qualcomm but we will see if it gains traction.


----------



## hifi80sman

vstolpner said:


> Pretty sure it's the latest, will have to confirm. The connectivity issues are mostly when I'm kneeling down, oddly enough in terms of drop outs. Otherwise it's things like connecting as if on a call, or couple times one of the buds wouldn't connect so I have to reset that one.
> 
> Maybe it's just a defective unit
> 
> Edit: Yep, mine is BH322B as well


Great review!  I think I may have had 1 or 2 small drop outs, like, ever.  I have to think there may be a defect with the antenna in your unit.  Also, calls are mine are quite good, in fact, they are better than the Anbes 359 (which are still good).  Let me also point out, that many of my calls were in the car.  Being Canada 'n all, maybe they give you guys the "B" Stock.


----------



## vstolpner

hifi80sman said:


> Great review!  I think I may have had 1 or 2 small drop outs, like, ever.  I have to think there may be a defect with the antenna in your unit.  Also, calls are mine are quite good, in fact, they are better than the Anbes 359 (which are still good).  Let me also point out, that many of my calls were in the car.  Being Canada 'n all, maybe they give you guys the "B" Stock.



Thanks!

Yeah but these were bought in America, eh


----------



## Gokuz

vstolpner said:


> Probably due to increased costs and complexities, and size constraints.... Means you have to have separate storage soldered on and a more complex chipset that can decide and process the files. Not to mention an interface for loading those songs to begin with.
> 
> Until chipset manufacturers start combining all of that into a single chipset, you won't see many implementations from Chi-Fi TWE's.



Really sad that Galaxy buds threw this feature away.


----------



## igorneumann (Jul 29, 2019)

jant71 said:


> I'll update on my experience with the Backbay Duet 50. IPX 5 and I have been cooling of under the sprinkler fountain at the park with no ill effects  Wind noise is not an issue and bone conduction isn't loud at all and no bother with music or podcasts playing. Aptx and thr right tips will get very solid sound out of them well worth the under $40 price tag. I'll not that they have independent volume control. Not all my BT5/0 stuff does and just turns the player volume. So, I can indeed lower the MP3 player volume down and put the battery strain more on the earbuds. Useful for me when a device states 6 hours of BT and That isn't even combining FM reception and then BT broadcasting which I do at times.
> 
> I like the fit. They can lean out a bit at the top with bigger tips, that I recc. for the better sound but then I can do the thumb forefinger pinch to press the button and not do the push the buds in thing. Much better this way! I get the double beep signal when top volume is reached and the other beep to tell you to let go when you FF or RW. They have behaved without issue as well.
> 
> ...



I do use SBC HD and can confirm its noticiably better, but I just found out what its about in your message, thanks.

Probably thats the reason I never cared much about APTX, the difference I found to be minimal.

By the way NEVER turn the volume down in the device and up in the earphone, you will inevitably reduce the signal to noise ratio and amplify the noise.

Imagine you want the volume at 10, the background noise is "1", and your device is playing "10", the signal is 10 times higher than the noise, if you reduce the volume, the noise level will almost not change... So if you turn down the devices volume to "2", the signal will be just double the noise... Amplify that in the earphone and you will end up with the signal volume at 10 and the noise at 5.

You will also reduce your dynamic range... Avoiding that is the bigger advantage of modern BT linking the devices volume, apart from being more practical.


----------



## hifi80sman

howdy said:


> 1.26
> I'm on Android


Ahh, yeah, I got that on iOS last month.


----------



## hifi80sman

vstolpner said:


> Thanks!
> 
> Yeah but these were bought in America, eh


LIES!


----------



## hifi80sman

Sad news...had to return the RHA TrueConnect.  Sound was really good, but fit, man, horrible.  I could get a seal, BUT, they were so bulbous, they would shift around and I'd have to continually adjust.  Oh, and the call quality was not as advertised; everyone heard an echo and said it was distracting.  At the gym, they kept moving around and I literally lost my mind (although I did get that extra rep!).

In it's place, I ordered the Creative Outlier Air, and let me just say, not disappointed at all.  They have a great sound signature that's smooth and kind of reminds me of Sony's house sound.  The fit is great as well, however, I'm not a fan of the buttons (have to jam them in a bit when pressing).  Overall, I'd recommend them over the RHA.


----------



## vstolpner

hifi80sman said:


> LIES!


I mean... 'Merica! Yeah!


----------



## clerkpalmer

hifi80sman said:


> Sad news...had to return the RHA TrueConnect.  Sound was really good, but fit, man, horrible.  I could get a seal, BUT, they were so bulbous, they would shift around and I'd have to continually adjust.  Oh, and the call quality was not as advertised; everyone heard an echo and said it was distracting.  At the gym, they kept moving around and I literally lost my mind (although I did get that extra rep!).
> 
> In it's place, I ordered the Creative Outlier Air, and let me just say, not disappointed at all.  They have a great sound signature that's smooth and kind of reminds me of Sony's house sound.  The fit is great as well, however, I'm not a fan of the buttons (have to jam them in a bit when pressing).  Overall, I'd recommend them over the RHA.


Yep. Exact issue I had. Too bad. Really nice sq on those.


----------



## chinmie

turbobb said:


> So... I may not be an audio engineer but I'm reasonably certain that's not how it works. Given BT volume control between source and buds are purely digital, though you set the source volume lower and crank up the earbuds, it ultimately still only affects the earbuds' battery life (happy to be proven wrong by those in the know though )



i don't know, but to me outputting the same amount of volume, whether the volume are {for instance} 20% on the phone, and 80% on the TWS, or the opposite : 80% phone and 20% on TWS, i think it would result the same in battery consumption. 



igorneumann said:


> By the way NEVER turn the volume down in the device and up in the earphone, you will inevitably reduce the signal to noise ratio and amplify the noise.
> 
> Imagine you want the volume at 10, the background noise is "1", and your device is playing "10", the signal is 10 times higher than the noise, if you reduce the volume, the noise level will almost not change... So if you turn down the devices volume to "2", the signal will be just double the noise... Amplify that in the earphone and you will end up with the signal volume at 10 and the noise at 5.
> 
> You will also reduce your dynamic range... Avoiding that is the bigger advantage of modern BT linking the devices volume, apart from being more practical.



yes, i agree on this. for the best signal to noise ratio, try to put the volume on the phone ideally to maximum. unless, of course, you eant to "warm up" the sound a bit and intentionally introduce a slight noise to the sound, then just mix and balance the amount of volume between the phone and the TWS. 

i usually put 100% volume on my phone when using bluetooth DACs like my ES100 or BlueDAC, because those bluetooth DACs have great volume step control.

but when using TWS, i usually put my phone volume about 70-80% so i can have a bit of control from the phone if i want to increase the volume a bit


----------



## chinmie

vstolpner said:


> Got my Mpow T5 review up!
> 
> DId this one as a comparitive review with the Anbes 359 and Tranya T3's as well.



nice review! i like the size comparison pics


----------



## HiFlight (Jul 29, 2019)

jant71 said:


> I'll update on my experience with the Backbay Duet 50. IPX 5 and I have been cooling of under the sprinkler fountain at the park with no ill effects  Wind noise is not an issue and bone conduction isn't loud at all and no bother with music or podcasts playing. Aptx and thr right tips will get very solid sound out of them well worth the under $40 price tag. I'll not that they have independent volume control. Not all my BT5/0 stuff does and just turns the player volume. So, I can indeed lower the MP3 player volume down and put the battery strain more on the earbuds. Useful for me when a device states 6 hours of BT and That isn't even combining FM reception and then BT broadcasting which I do at times.
> 
> I like the fit. They can lean out a bit at the top with bigger tips, that I recc. for the better sound but then I can do the thumb forefinger pinch to press the button and not do the push the buds in thing. Much better this way! I get the double beep signal when top volume is reached and the other beep to tell you to let go when you FF or RW. They have behaved without issue as well.
> 
> ...


I am also very pleased with my Back Bay Duet 50.  Probably the best fitting of any of my TWS buds.  I also like the fact that most of my tip collection can fit the stems while still fitting in the charging case.  Most importantly, they sound really fine.  A steal at the going price!


----------



## howdy

hifi80sman said:


> Sad news...had to return the RHA TrueConnect.  Sound was really good, but fit, man, horrible.  I could get a seal, BUT, they were so bulbous, they would shift around and I'd have to continually adjust.  Oh, and the call quality was not as advertised; everyone heard an echo and said it was distracting.  At the gym, they kept moving around and I literally lost my mind (although I did get that extra rep!).
> 
> In it's place, I ordered the Creative Outlier Air, and let me just say, not disappointed at all.  They have a great sound signature that's smooth and kind of reminds me of Sony's house sound.  The fit is great as well, however, I'm not a fan of the buttons (have to jam them in a bit when pressing).  Overall, I'd recommend them over the RHA.


Are you planning on picking up the new Sony WH1000XM3 TWS? They look really nice and the reviews have been good so far. I'm thinking of getting them I just want someone that has both the first one and the new one to see if the volume is louder on the new one. I always thought the first one was loud enough but in noisy situations I want that extra few clicks.


----------



## dhc0329

vstolpner said:


> Totally agree, the Tranya T3 are a fantastic buy. Especially if you can find them on sale.
> 
> Have you tried the Mpow T5? Just reviewed those and really enjoying their sound (listening to them right this moment actually)



How is Mpow T5 compares to Tranya T3? I really don't care for bass but wants more clarity and details as I am using the buds
mostly for training videos, not music.


----------



## dhc0329

What would be wireless ear bud with the following aspects?

1. good run time
2. small and comfortable
3. good isolation or noise canceling
4. NO BASS with ultra clarity intended for hearing voice (movies and audio books). 
5. battery indicator either on earbuds or base station to know battery level.


----------



## vstolpner (Jul 30, 2019)

dhc0329 said:


> How is Mpow T5 compares to Tranya T3? I really don't care for bass but wants more clarity and details as I am using the buds
> mostly for training videos, not music.



Then the Mpow T5 would be the better choice between those two. Check out my review in the signature.

Edit: Actually in that case check out balanced armature ones - highly recommend mifo O5 Professional.


----------



## dhc0329

vstolpner said:


> Then the Mpow T5 would be the better choice between those two. Check out my review in the signature.



Tks, will do.


----------



## vstolpner

dhc0329 said:


> Tks, will do.


Check out my review on mifo O5 Professional.... You responded too quickly, didn't get a chance to edit my response to you... Lol


----------



## vstolpner

dhc0329 said:


> What would be wireless ear bud with the following aspects?
> 
> 1. good run time
> 2. small and comfortable
> ...




You actually reminded me of a recommendation for @dhc0329 

Check out mifo O5 Professional. Great run time (7-8 hours in the buds + 100+ hours in the case). Balanced armature driver will give you the clarity and little bass response. Isolation is great with 7 or 8 pairs of included tips. No battery indicator on the case, but with the huge battery in there, it won't be an issue.

Check out my mifo O5 Professional review in my signature


----------



## snip3r77

vstolpner said:


> Then the Mpow T5 would be the better choice between those two. Check out my review in the signature.
> 
> Edit: Actually in that case check out balanced armature ones - highly recommend mifo O5 Professional.


The Mifo is it above the 3 entries ?


----------



## vstolpner

snip3r77 said:


> The Mifo is it above the 3 entries ?


Do you mean would I rank it in my top 3? In my top 5 without a doubt. I would include it in my top 3 if the first and second place had something bassy and fun. The mifo O5 Pro is a fantastic sounding earphone that, in my opinion, is also the best looking TWS out there and with the best controls. It just doesn't have the base of the T5, the T3, or the 359, so it wouldn't be one that I would recommend to someone without any other TWS pair, but it would be an easy choice for a second pair.
Hope that made sense.


----------



## dhc0329

vstolpner said:


> Check out my review on mifo O5 Professional.... You responded too quickly, didn't get a chance to edit my response to you... Lol



aight bro..


----------



## FYLegend (Jul 30, 2019)

vstolpner said:


> Anbes 359 copy (just different case) - Letsfit Wireless Earbuds (BE32?) are on daily deals for a couple more hours for $27.
> 
> Anyone going to try these out?
> 
> Edit: Ok this is too funny - so are another clone - Letscom True Wireless Earbuds (BE32 as well!) on for $34 after coupon.


hmm case is microUSB and smaller capacity than the 359. Take a grain of salt over the longer battery claims of both this and BE30.

Here's another interesting one where the shell looks very similar to 359 but with a rectangular case:
https://www.bestbuy.ca/en-ca/produc...-wireless-headphones-white-rose-gold/13787328


----------



## igorneumann

vstolpner said:


> Do you mean would I rank it in my top 3? In my top 5 without a doubt. I would include it in my top 3 if the first and second place had something bassy and fun. The mifo O5 Pro is a fantastic sounding earphone that, in my opinion, is also the best looking TWS out there and with the best controls. It just doesn't have the base of the T5, the T3, or the 359, so it wouldn't be one that I would recommend to someone without any other TWS pair, but it would be an easy choice for a second pair.
> Hope that made sense.



I had the TFZ X1, same earphone but nicer looking IMHO, the only problem I see, apart from lacking some bass was the buttons that werent well placed and very uncomfortable to press... I just end up picking up the phone for everything.

Sadly I has to return them as trying to shower with them completely ruined the right side. They suppose to be waterproof up to 1m


----------



## vstolpner

FYLegend said:


> hmm case is microUSB and smaller capacity than the 359. Take a grain of salt over the longer battery claims of both this and BE30.
> 
> Here's another interesting one where the shell looks very similar to 359 but with a rectangular case:
> https://www.bestbuy.ca/en-ca/produc...-wireless-headphones-white-rose-gold/13787328



Oh and $90 too! Ouch!

And yeah, realise those weren't going to be the same as Anbes 359 - but fun to consider 



igorneumann said:


> I had the TFZ X1, same earphone but nicer looking IMHO, the only problem I see, apart from lacking some bass was the buttons that werent well placed and very uncomfortable to press... I just end up picking up the phone for everything.
> 
> Sadly I has to return them as trying to shower with them completely ruined the right side. They suppose to be waterproof up to 1m



Yeah the TFZ's do look nicer, but I found the buttons to be awesome - took me a bit to get used to them, but after I did I loved being able to adjust volume quickly. Only thing that confused me is why they get them upside down from one side to another.... Bugged me to no end...

Oh and I showered with mine too without issues, but I don't think I'd trust any that are more than $20 to survive showering on a regular basis


----------



## hifi80sman

howdy said:


> Are you planning on picking up the new Sony WH1000XM3 TWS? They look really nice and the reviews have been good so far. I'm thinking of getting them I just want someone that has both the first one and the new one to see if the volume is louder on the new one. I always thought the first one was loud enough but in noisy situations I want that extra few clicks.


I am, BUT I’ll probably wait a month or so after the initial release (2nd shipped batch).  Initial releases seem to have a few quirks, so I’m going the wait and watch approach.


----------



## supertx2

AnakChan said:


> So I now have a Fostex TM2 along with FitEar adapters for review.
> 
> 
> I had previously demo-ed them briefly at the Fujiya Spring Headphone Festival back in late April.
> ...


When does that review comes out?  
I'm so tempted to buy one of these but I cant find a good review anywhere


----------



## chinmie (Jul 30, 2019)

AnakChan said:


> So I now have a Fostex TM2 along with FitEar adapters for review.
> 
> 
> I had previously demo-ed them briefly at the Fujiya Spring Headphone Festival back in late April.
> ...



edited- it turns out i already asked the same question


----------



## Takeanidea

clerkpalmer said:


> Early reviews are lukewarm. Apparently very little bass and possibly shrill highs. Maybe they have or will fix them but for now, I’d suggest holding off unless that sound signature is what you like.


I've had them for 3 weeks now and covered 75 miles of running with them. The sound signature is meant to be neutral and many folks might find a more satisfying sound with them if they eq the bass up and trim the highs.  I have g it used to the sound and I find I can follow the vocals and strings a lot easier than most of my other in ears. They're good drivers so they'll respond to a bit of eqing


----------



## Ithilstone

clerkpalmer said:


> Early reviews are lukewarm. Apparently very little bass and possibly shrill highs. Maybe they have or will fix them but for now, I’d suggest holding off unless that sound signature is what you like.



I hand a chance to spend some time with them - if you like RE600, TWS 600 will be for you - with good tips those do not lack in bass - it is just this kind of tuning ( not for bass heads - just for linear quick non boosted bass) 
regarding highs - I have no problem with them ( i think again good tips are important) but some of my friends enjoyed them more with a bit of EQ
One think I need to mention - with larger tips those do not fit in to the case - the one i use fir OK but if you normally like very large or triples then that will be a problem


----------



## actorlife (Jul 30, 2019)

Lenovo 4.2 Graphene with 10hr battery flash sale: https://m.gearbest.com/headsets/pp_009528966447.html?lkid=18629561


----------



## Tonza (Jul 30, 2019)

Replaced my MW07 with Galaxy Buds as the splashy treble was just too much for me. Had to keep it equalised down. (A friend wanted to have them as she heard about the LV collaboration so sold them on the cheap)

Im happy with the Buds. Great balance, good enough detail and comfy. The bass may be a bit light on the subway but in a quieter environment it's great. I really seem to agree on the two TWS with Crinacle.


----------



## dill3000

clerkpalmer said:


> Early reviews are lukewarm. Apparently very little bass and possibly shrill highs. Maybe they have or will fix them but for now, I’d suggest holding off unless that sound signature is what you like.





Ithilstone said:


> I hand a chance to spend some time with them - if you like RE600, TWS 600 will be for you - with good tips those do not lack in bass - it is just this kind of tuning ( not for bass heads - just for linear quick non boosted bass)
> regarding highs - I have no problem with them ( i think again good tips are important) but some of my friends enjoyed them more with a bit of EQ
> One think I need to mention - with larger tips those do not fit in to the case - the one i use fir OK but if you normally like very large or triples then that will be a problem



I can agree here - these TWS 600's benefit with an EQ - I find them neutral enough to EQ to your tastes easily. If you're after more bass EQ with bass boost and you'll be happy. I find the upper mids or highs - if bothered by them is easier helped with getting a good fitting tip. My first try with the inbox Hifiman tips I did here the upper mids but greatly helped when I changed tips, also at the listening volume that I listen to them at - it doesn't bother me at all. So with the combination of a good fitting tip and an EQ is a good solution.


----------



## Bartig

Awesome. I can lend expensive tws from a local online shop to test and review them. So I've got the M&D MW07, MTW, RHA, B&O and later the Sony's coming in. 

Did I already say I love this hobby?


----------



## d3myz

bronco1015 said:


> So, Wednesday the mpow T5 and the MeeAudio X10 both arrived. The x10 was,...horrible! did get a fairly good seal once figured out how they needed to fit in the ear, but they are very cheaply built, the case honestly feels like a plastic cheap kids toy. they kind of haphazardly sit in the case, but seem to not displace easily. they actually sound okay, but not a lot of mids just felt like they were pulled back not quite dialed in all the way if you will. mos tof the time, they cut out, get out of sync and have that weird echoy mono like sound, and the right bud has this killer ambiant thing going on where i could hear things very clearly from 2 rooms away and behind a closed door. But it was very nicely implemented and played over the top of the music in a freakishly natural way. They're definitely going back.
> The T5s are loud!. Forward and loud!. Full hard hitting bass, with some sloppy sub bass imo, but really a fun sound over all, perfect for the gym, the shower obviously, as d3myz can attest to haha. They also have great call quality. I think they'll stay.


Appreciate your Impressions! I'm really loving my T5's.


----------



## hifi80sman

Tonza said:


> Replaced my MW07 with Galaxy Buds as the splashy treble was just too much for me. Had to keep it equalised down. (A friend wanted to have them as she heard about the LV collaboration so sold them on the cheap)
> 
> Im happy with the Buds. Great balance, good enough detail and comfy. The bass may be a bit light on the subway but in a quieter environment it's great. I really seem to agree on the two TWS with Crinacle.


I found the the Galaxy Buds lean a bit bright as well, but yes, the bass is a little on the lighter side.  That being said, it sounds good and does accept a bit of EQ to the low end (but will start to distort if pushed too far).

The only thing I'd watch out for during your return period (I assume) is if one side progressively becomes softer in volume than the other.  This happened to me after a while, so I had to return them.


----------



## Dcell7

Bartig said:


> Awesome. I can lend expensive tws from a local online shop to test and review them. So I've got the M&D MW07, MTW, RHA, B&O and later the Sony's coming in.
> 
> Did I already say I love this hobby?



I was using my TFZ B.V2 today at work and i walked past by a guy i semi-know. He asked me are those good ? I said no don’t bother with this model but if you look for a pair of good TWS i will chat you a website. So again i recommended someone to check your website


----------



## clerkpalmer

My Sony's arrived from BB today.  My initial impression (limited primarily to sound quality ) is disappointing.  Going on my memory of the SP-700n, these sound identical.  That's not to say that they are poor or even bad as the SP-700n sound fine and even good.  But I had hoped that these might jump to the level of the Senns or the MW07.  I think they must be using the same driver and tuning.  The ANC is dramatically improved from the joke of ANC on the SP-700n.  The fit and finish is superb.  Definitely feel like a high end product.  In the end, it's all about SQ for me however.  I need to listen more but they may be going back.


----------



## d3myz (Jul 30, 2019)

jant71 said:


> I'll update on my experience with the Backbay Duet 50. IPX 5 and I have been cooling of under the sprinkler fountain at the park with no ill effects  Wind noise is not an issue and bone conduction isn't loud at all and no bother with music or podcasts playing. Aptx and thr right tips will get very solid sound out of them well worth the under $40 price tag. I'll not that they have independent volume control. Not all my BT5/0 stuff does and just turns the player volume. So, I can indeed lower the MP3 player volume down and put the battery strain more on the earbuds. Useful for me when a device states 6 hours of BT and That isn't even combining FM reception and then BT broadcasting which I do at times.
> 
> I like the fit. They can lean out a bit at the top with bigger tips, that I recc. for the better sound but then I can do the thumb forefinger pinch to press the button and not do the push the buds in thing. Much better this way! I get the double beep signal when top volume is reached and the other beep to tell you to let go when you FF or RW. They have behaved without issue as well.
> 
> ...



Thanks for your thoughts on the Duet 50. I'm on my second pair, the first pair I got did sound that good, when listening to audiobooks there was so much mid bass it was unbearable. I've been using the 2nd pair for a couple days, now. I've had some connection issues and some siri issues with the second pair. I've had to reset them a couple of times, but hey seem to be working well now and this pair sounds much better than the first pair. great sounds stage, pretty close to the T5, with less bass and less detail. not quite as immersive as the 359, but still very good. Wish they had more low end, but all around they are 4.5/5 star. and i got mine for $36, so that's a win.


----------



## hifi80sman

clerkpalmer said:


> My Sony's arrived from BB today.  My initial impression (limited primarily to sound quality ) is disappointing.  Going on my memory of the SP-700n, these sound identical.  That's not to say that they are poor or even bad as the SP-700n sound fine and even good.  But I had hoped that these might jump to the level of the Senns or the MW07.  I think they must be using the same driver and tuning.  The ANC is dramatically improved from the joke of ANC on the SP-700n.  The fit and finish is superb.  Definitely feel like a high end product.  In the end, it's all about SQ for me however.  I need to listen more but they may be going back.


Ahh, buddy!  Can you compare with the MTW?  Honestly, ANC for in-ears is not something I really care about, since isolation itself is typically sufficient.  Marketing pieces made it sound like the audio would be improved and "high res"!


----------



## joshnor713

clerkpalmer said:


> My Sony's arrived from BB today.  My initial impression (limited primarily to sound quality ) is disappointing.  Going on my memory of the SP-700n, these sound identical.  That's not to say that they are poor or even bad as the SP-700n sound fine and even good.  But I had hoped that these might jump to the level of the Senns or the MW07.  I think they must be using the same driver and tuning.  The ANC is dramatically improved from the joke of ANC on the SP-700n.  The fit and finish is superb.  Definitely feel like a high end product.  In the end, it's all about SQ for me however.  I need to listen more but they may be going back.



Aww man, that's disappointing. Especially since every reviewer is praising the SQ. Think I'll still keep my pre-order, but my expectations aren't high coming from the MTW (not that the MTW sound is that special either).


----------



## clerkpalmer

hifi80sman said:


> Ahh, buddy!  Can you compare with the MTW?  Honestly, ANC for in-ears is not something I really care about, since isolation itself is typically sufficient.  Marketing pieces made it sound like the audio would be improved and "high res"!



I sold my MTW because I couldn't stand the battery drain but I don't think these beat the MTW or MW07 for SQ.  I would put them closer to the Powerbeats Pro.  Very good, not great.  That leaves me with a nice sounding product, with ANC (admittedly nice) but no IP rating.  Not sure that's a keeper.  I actually would welcome this in a gym friendly package with an IP rating and ANC.


----------



## clerkpalmer

joshnor713 said:


> Aww man, that's disappointing. Especially since every reviewer is praising the SQ. Think I'll still keep my pre-order, but my expectations aren't high coming from the MTW (not that the MTW sound is that special either).


Will be interested in your impressions.


----------



## hifi80sman (Jul 30, 2019)

Bartig said:


> Awesome. I can lend expensive tws from a local online shop to test and review them. So I've got the M&D MW07, MTW, RHA, B&O and later the Sony's coming in.
> 
> Did I already say I love this hobby?


Looking forward to your impressions.  I still have the MTW and E8, but got rid of the MW07 (bad battery life, poor call quality) and the RHA (poor fit, less-than-advertised call quality).  Out of them all, I felt the MW07 had the best sound, with the MTW in second, and E8 a close third.


----------



## clerkpalmer

All of this makes me inclined to just repurchase the MW07 as it is head and shoulders above the rest in terms of SQ.  I foolishly got rid of them because the fin kept slipping off my ear and have gone down a path of multiple replacements none of which really beat the MW07 in the first place.  I hesitate on the hope that they will upgrade the chipset to 5.0 and double the battery life.  M&D really has some Unicorn Magic going on in those.


----------



## actorlife

clerkpalmer said:


> All of this makes me inclined to just repurchase the MW07 as it is head and shoulders above the rest in terms of SQ.  I foolishly got rid of them because the fin kept slipping off my ear and have gone down a path of multiple replacements none of which really beat the MW07 in the first place.  I hesitate on the hope that they will upgrade the chipset to 5.0 and double the battery life.  M&D really has some Unicorn Magic going on in those.


There is a used like new pair on amazon for 259.00


----------



## Bartig

Dcell7 said:


> I was using my TFZ B.V2 today at work and i walked past by a guy i semi-know. He asked me are those good ? I said no don’t bother with this model but if you look for a pair of good TWS i will chat you a website. So again i recommended someone to check your website


I want to hug you.  Love that my site is helpful to others, other than being my own backlog.

I can't wait to test out the more expensive models and see how they compare to way, way cheaper models which I've already tested so much.


----------



## nc8000

hifi80sman said:


> Ahh, buddy!  Can you compare with the MTW?  Honestly, ANC for in-ears is not something I really care about, since isolation itself is typically sufficient.  Marketing pieces made it sound like the audio would be improved and "high res"!



With only sbc and aac they were never going to be hi res and Sony never made any such claim. Mine should arrive before the end of the week


----------



## Tavleen Suri

actorlife said:


> There is a used like new pair on amazon for 259.00


lol,ebay has plenty new ones for approx 200


----------



## joshnor713

clerkpalmer said:


> Will be interested in your impressions.



Yup, will update when my pre-order goes through. Glad to hear the XM3 is starting to arrive stateside.

The battery drain on the MTW didn't bug me too much (I'm always constantly charging up my gear). But the fit is complete garage to me. The MTW stay in my ear but the chunkiness means that the nozzles can't go in deep. And to make matters worse, Senn only includes narrow ear tips. They should be long tips; I dunno What they were thinking. I managed to find some SpinFits I had lying around that work, but they fall off the nozzle too easily. I must say, getting a deep insertion brings the SQ up significantly, but good luck getting there.

Judging by my old WF-1000X pair, Sony gets ear tip fit better. Never had a problem getting a good seal. Hope it's the same with the XM3.

Passive noise isolation has always been one of my pet peeves with the MTW. It's average at best. So look forward to the ANC on the XM3. As far as SQ, I can accept that true wireless aren't gonna get there. It's for the convenience. Just want something decent-sounding. For sit-down sessions, I have wired IEMs


----------



## actorlife

Tavleen Suri said:


> lol,ebay has plenty new ones for approx 200


I bet even cheaper that 3.5hr battery is a joke for $300, so overpriced. Yeah yeah I bet the SQ is top notch but still.


----------



## Tavleen Suri

actorlife said:


> I bet even cheaper that 3.5hr battery is a joke for $300, so overpriced. Yeah yeah I bet the SQ is top notch but still.


agree with you on that...could have had one used for like 150 ish but went for the bose instead which i got for arnd 80 and am mostly very happy with them


----------



## clerkpalmer

Tavleen Suri said:


> agree with you on that...could have had one used for like 150 ish but went for the bose instead which i got for arnd 80 and am mostly very happy with them



You guys are reminding me of why I dumped them.  Battery life is definitely atrocious.  3 hours at best.  Mine were dying at closer to 2 hours.  Those large drivers must crush the battery.  And the fins kept falling off.  2 pairs did this and M&D customer service was not helpful.


----------



## actorlife

Tavleen Suri said:


> agree with you on that...could have had one used for like 150 ish but went for the bose instead which i got for arnd 80 and am mostly very happy with them


Did you get any luck finding the 359?


----------



## Tavleen Suri

actorlife said:


> Did you get any luck finding the 359?


well thing is am kinda turning into a hoarder , thanks to you guys lol ....and am not sure if i shud buy another pair...am trying real hard not to


----------



## actorlife

Tavleen Suri said:


> well thing is am kinda turning into a hoarder , thanks to you guys lol ....and am not sure if i shud buy another pair...am trying real hard not to


How about a Tally of what you have?


----------



## howdy

clerkpalmer said:


> My Sony's arrived from BB today.  My initial impression (limited primarily to sound quality ) is disappointing.  Going on my memory of the SP-700n, these sound identical.  That's not to say that they are poor or even bad as the SP-700n sound fine and even good.  But I had hoped that these might jump to the level of the Senns or the MW07.  I think they must be using the same driver and tuning.  The ANC is dramatically improved from the joke of ANC on the SP-700n.  The fit and finish is superb.  Definitely feel like a high end product.  In the end, it's all about SQ for me however.  I need to listen more but they may be going back.


I hope they magically sound better with time. I had high hopes for these. 
I may have lost my Earin M2s which sucks! I'm hoping i left them up north and have to wait tell the weekend to get back up there. If I did lose them I really want to get the Sony's (not that it would stop me anyways) but I don't really bring my Senns or E8s out to much which is why I liked the M2s so much due to there low profile.


----------



## Tavleen Suri

well started with the apple airpods...hated hated the fit, sound was mediocre...then i got the tronsmart spunky...fit was wayyy better, sound was better too but still v mediocre....then i got the treblab x5 and the bose together ...very happy with both of them....just wish bose went a lil deeper inside the ears...and have a qcy tws lying someplace...have hardly used it

there u go, my hoard...so far


----------



## vstolpner

Tavleen Suri said:


> well started with the apple airpods...hated hated the fit, sound was mediocre...then i got the tronsmart spunky...fit was wayyy better, sound was better too but still v mediocre....then i got the treblab x5 and the bose together ...very happy with both of them....just wish bose went a lil deeper inside the ears...and have a qcy tws lying someplace...have hardly used it
> 
> there u go, my hoard...so far



Lol not much of a heard.... Yet... 

I had the SoundPeats TrueFree, mifo O5 Professional, Astrotec Motivation. And currently still have Anbes 359, Tranya T3, Mpow T5, and Tiso i4. Debating to return either the Tranya's or the Mpow's

I know of many on here in the 2-3 dozen range at this point 

Edit: oh and I have the TRN BT20... Always forget about those... LoL


----------



## actorlife

Tavleen Suri said:


> well started with the apple airpods...hated hated the fit, sound was mediocre...then i got the tronsmart spunky...fit was wayyy better, sound was better too but still v mediocre....then i got the treblab x5 and the bose together ...very happy with both of them....just wish bose went a lil deeper inside the ears...and have a qcy tws lying someplace...have hardly used it
> 
> there u go, my hoard...so far


Hoarding??? That's small collection. You need those Anbes or Mpow and you'll be done, well till there is another company with great SQ with 10hr battery for $30.


----------



## Tavleen Suri

vstolpner said:


> Lol not much of a heard.... Yet...
> 
> I had the SoundPeats TrueFree, mifo O5 Professional, Astrotec Motivation. And currently still have Anbes 359, Tranya T3, Mpow T5, and Tiso i4. Debating to return either the Tranya's or the Mpow's
> 
> ...


dont you tempt me !...i still have a couple in the cart


----------



## actorlife

vstolpner said:


> Lol not much of a heard.... Yet...
> 
> I had the SoundPeats TrueFree, mifo O5 Professional, Astrotec Motivation. And currently still have Anbes 359, Tranya T3, Mpow T5, and Tiso i4. Debating to return either the Tranya's or the Mpow's
> 
> ...


Dang you beat me. I'm a measly 6 TWS. Keep going fun Fun Fun.


----------



## Tavleen Suri

actorlife said:


> Hoarding??? That's small collection. You need those Anbes or Mpow and you'll be done, well till there is another company with great SQ with 10hr battery for $30.


u guys are crazy....i had almost ordered the tranya t3 but stopped myself...

will look out for some sony reviews though...if it turns out to be great then will buy those for sure...have always liked sony iems....maybe then u ll consider my collection a hoard


----------



## vstolpner

Tavleen Suri said:


> dont you tempt me !...i still have a couple in the cart


You won't be disappointed with the Mpow T5.... I would also recommend the mifo O5 Professional, but the BA drivers have a very specific sound signature that takes a bit of getting used to

Edit: check my review of both in the signature


----------



## vstolpner

Tavleen Suri said:


> u guys are crazy....i had almost ordered the tranya t3 but stopped myself...
> 
> will look out for some sony reviews though...if it turns out to be great then will buy those for sure...have always liked sony iems....maybe then u ll consider my collection a hoard



Or... Instead of the Sony's... Buy 5 pairs of Chi-Fi TWE's


----------



## actorlife (Jul 30, 2019)

Tavleen Suri said:


> u guys are crazy....i had almost ordered the tranya t3 but stopped myself...
> 
> will look out for some sony reviews though...if it turns out to be great then will buy those for sure...have always liked sony iems....maybe then u ll consider my collection a hoard


Buy Buy Buy. It's not really hoarding if you're only buying $20-35 TWS. My collection only cost less than $160. At the moment I'm content. I just need a BA and dynamic combo with 10hrs and I'll be good for a long while. At least that's what I tell myself. Bahhahaha Fun.


----------



## Tavleen Suri

actorlife said:


> Buy Buy Buy. It's not really hoarding if you're only buying $20-35 TWS. My collection only cost less than $150. At the moment I'm content. I just need a BA and dynamic combo with 10hrs and I'll be good for a long while. At least that's what I tell myself. Bahhahaha Fun.


well i love the sony sound signature...have had the xba z5 for god knows how long....and if the mx3 s are even remotely similar to it id  be v happy....had the sp700 for like a couple days, my unit though gave me no more than 2 hrs of juice...so they went back...
and yea i will totally get one out of the t3 or t5..and after that i ll stop...maybe


----------



## Luchyres

hifi80sman said:


> Looking forward to you impressions.  I still have the MTW and E8, but got rid of the MW07 (bad battery life, poor call quality) and the RHA (poor fit, less-than-advertised call quality).  Out of them all, I felt the MW07 had the best sound, with the MTW in second, and E8 a close third.





clerkpalmer said:


> All of this makes me inclined to just repurchase the MW07 as it is head and shoulders above the rest in terms of SQ.  I foolishly got rid of them because the fin kept slipping off my ear and have gone down a path of multiple replacements none of which really beat the MW07 in the first place.  I hesitate on the hope that they will upgrade the chipset to 5.0 and double the battery life.  M&D really has some Unicorn Magic going on in those.



Dang, I'm with you guys (been sitting out a lot of these last few hundred(?) pages - waiting for something interesting at the top-end) - and I am/was really hopeful for the Sony's - admittedly, I like bass too much and I'm a big fan of Sony house sound and product design (Ex-800St w/ Tape mod are my daily).

Fingers are still crossed, but I worry they won't quite have the sound I'm looking for, and I care way more about sound than ANC (never actually used it before really, even when I had the MTW).

I'm eager to hear @Bartig 's thoughts as well - and will be keeping an eye out for other's xm3 impressions. 

That being said... whentf are these QCC5xxx going to be mainstream and available


----------



## turbobb

NOTE TO ALL: not to derail the thread but given battery life is a key consideration with TWE's I figured this should be of interest still...



jant71 said:


> Depends on device. The one I have I can plug in and listen with BT on will take a hit esp. with FM use. Others the HO is off and I plug in and get no sound till I shut BT. The one that keeps both does drain more, IME, and thankfully is one that is independent so I can turn the BB all the way up and turn the device from 23 volume to 13 and it does help.



So again, not an engineer but Bluetooth audio streaming requires the A2DP profile and it simply transmits your digital media file at specific bitrates dictated by the codec used (of which SBC support is mandatory). This transmission is digital and there is no "volume being streamed" in the signal; the built-in DAC on your BT earbuds converts that signal back to analog so it can be played back by the drivers. When you adjust the volume on either your source or earbuds, you're invoking the AVRCP profile, which is simply like a wireless remote protocol; it'll adjust your source's volume as a readout but any actual gain/decrease happens only at the earbuds as an output of the DAC; again there is no "volume" being streamed here, nor does it increase the BT transmission power (in which case it would only impact the range and not volume - the signal is digital after all).

Did a little research and came across this: https://electronics.stackexchange.com/questions/294299/battery-drain-with-higher-volume
So while both the first and second answers are the same in that volume doesn't impact battery usage, the second guy actually did some testing by re-compressing the source file at a lower volume which reduced the file size a little and thus theorizes that reduced transmission could technically net less battery usage but again, this is not about the actual source volume but rather the file's volume. 

I think a prudent question to ask here would be how does a device "transmit" volume? 

However, you got my curiosity piqued, what devices do you use for bluetooth?


----------



## hifi80sman

clerkpalmer said:


> All of this makes me inclined to just repurchase the MW07 as it is head and shoulders above the rest in terms of SQ.  I foolishly got rid of them because the fin kept slipping off my ear and have gone down a path of multiple replacements none of which really beat the MW07 in the first place.  I hesitate on the hope that they will upgrade the chipset to 5.0 and double the battery life.  M&D really has some Unicorn Magic going on in those.


They just came out with the MW65, but it's STILL using BT 4.2.  Not very hopeful they'll go 5.0 with the MW07 anytime soon, unfortunately.


----------



## rafaelroxalot

No one more got the Pamu Slide? To compare to tranya t3?


----------



## vstolpner

turbobb said:


> NOTE TO ALL: not to derail the thread but given battery life is a key consideration with TWE's I figured this should be of interest still...
> 
> 
> 
> ...



For the most part I agree with you, with a few exceptions.
1. Earbuds have their own separate volume, so you can set phone to 80% and earbuds to 50% and get a (let's say) 40% total volume output. This also means that changing volume on earbuds doesn't invoke AVRCP. Note that this is based on my earbuds at least.
2. Phone re-encodes regardless of the source encoding algorithm, so volume changes would be encoded.
3. The earbuds have a DAC/AMP combo. Though I believe what really matters is the amount of work required to drive the drivers - hence regardless of 80%/50% or 50%/80% settings, the final volume is 40% and hence should use the same amount of energy.


----------



## hifi80sman

nc8000 said:


> With only sbc and aac they were never going to be hi res and Sony never made any such claim. Mine should arrive before the end of the week


My quotes were meant tongue & cheek, not literal, given the marketing piece plays up the audio quality.  Disappointing if they didn't push it much further than the WF-SP700N or the original WF-1000X.  Looking forward to more impressions, especially in comparison to the previous Sony models and their high-end competitors (Sennheiser, M&D, B&O).


----------



## chinmie

hifi80sman said:


> My quotes were meant tongue & cheek, not literal, given the marketing piece plays up the audio quality.  Disappointing if they didn't push it much further than the WF-SP700N or the original WF-1000X.  Looking forward to more impressions, especially in comparison to the previous Sony models and their high-end competitors (Sennheiser, M&D, B&O).



it intrigues me on why Sony still sticking to AAC and SBC only, even though they own the LDAC codec, and from what i saw here
http://www.52audio.com/archives/17042.html

both the older WF-1000X and WF SP700 uses Qualcomm chip, so i reckon they should be able to use APTX if they want to?

also, here is the dismantling of the new WF-1000XM3
http://www.52audio.com/archives/24818.html

i don't see any qualcomm chip on the new one, or maybe i missed it from the text


----------



## dhc0329

vstolpner said:


> Check out my review on mifo O5 Professional.... You responded too quickly, didn't get a chance to edit my response to you... Lol



I checked out your review and although this bud may sound good but if it drops the connection regularly like you suggested, not sure if it's worth the buy.


----------



## vstolpner

dhc0329 said:


> I checked out your review and although this bud may sound good but if it drops the connection regularly like you suggested, not sure if it's worth the buy.



I'm beginning to think that might be my phone too... And those were tiny drop outs of a fraction of a second.
The sound really was that good. I had to send it back as I wanted more for the money, but it's one I really miss.

Otherwise I'd suggest you look for reviews of Astrotec S60 (Knowles BA driver - I expect it'll have better base response than mifo O5 Professional), or wait for Shanling to release theirs (also Knowles BA).

Have you considered TRN BT20? Bulky and no charging case, but you get whatever sound you want depending on the IEMs you choose (and changing sound just takes a new pair of IEMs). Also, the connectivity in those is absolutely rock solid - easily better than any other I've tried.


----------



## nc8000

chinmie said:


> it intrigues me on why Sony still sticking to AAC and SBC only, even though they own the LDAC codec, and from what i saw here
> http://www.52audio.com/archives/17042.html
> 
> both the older WF-1000X and WF SP700 uses Qualcomm chip, so i reckon they should be able to use APTX if they want to?
> ...



There is no Qualcom hence the lack of AptX. LDAC probably consumes too much battery. As I will be using them solely with an iPhone I’m not bothered


----------



## dhc0329

vstolpner said:


> I'm beginning to think that might be my phone too... And those were tiny drop outs of a fraction of a second.
> The sound really was that good. I had to send it back as I wanted more for the money, but it's one I really miss.
> 
> Otherwise I'd suggest you look for reviews of Astrotec S60 (Knowles BA driver - I expect it'll have better base response than mifo O5 Professional), or wait for Shanling to release theirs (also Knowles BA).
> ...



Bro, just how many wireless earbuds have you tried? You are the wireless guy. I am having a good run with the one I have for now so I will just wait for the ultimate.


----------



## vstolpner

dhc0329 said:


> Bro, just how many wireless earbuds have you tried? You are the wireless guy. I am having a good run with the one I have for now so I will just wait for the ultimate.



Lol not that many - more read up on a lot. All ones I've tried are in my signature.


----------



## snip3r77

vstolpner said:


> Lol not that many - more read up on a lot. All ones I've tried are in my signature.


Of the 3 which BT most stable and which one is most comfortable / size ? Thanks


----------



## vstolpner

snip3r77 said:


> Of the 3 which BT most stable and which one is most comfortable / size ? Thanks



The Bluetooth stability is pretty simple... TRN BT20 has the absolute best, maybe Anbes 359 coming behind that, followed by Tranya T3 and then Mpow T5 and finally mifo O5. But keep in mind, they all have good connectivity - drop outs are still infrequent, and most reviewers don't have complaints about drop outs on any of them.
I did hear some that there  are connectivity issues with Astrotec S60, but that was mostly around an old BT 4.2 implementation, and my Astrotec Motivation didn't have much connectivity issues (I guess similar to Tranya T3).

As for comfort - that's really personal. I loved the mifo O5 for comfort, others didn't. Hated Astrotec Motivation for comfort, others loved it. The rest were comfortable enough that I didn't mind wearing them for a few hours at a time. Note that I don't review battery life because I never get beyond 2-3 hours at the absolute max.


----------



## jlcsoft

I am really happy with the Tranya T3, the sound is better than the syllable s101, it´s a TWS that I recommend by the 39€ I paid in Amazon. In your opinion which one is the next step In sound quality under 100€/$?


----------



## n33t

Just an update with my broken QCY QS2 -> i contacted the seller on aliexpress he prolonged the Buyer Protection and is sending me a new pair 

But i will still try to fix the broken one when i will have some free time


----------



## BobJS

Tavleen Suri said:


> lol,ebay has plenty new ones for approx 200



[Re: MW07]

Wow, no-brainer for that price.  Well, given my usage habits, anyway.  I only use them for listening to music (no need for mic use), and I never need more than an hour at a time.  Understandable if these constraints don't meet your requirements.  I'm still pleased, I got the black matte ones new from BB when they had a $225 promotion.

From what I see on eBay now, I'd get a tortoise shell for $209.  I'm not one to buy a back-up of something I love though.  (I lost control once and did get a 2nd SE846 when it was at a "very low" price).


----------



## turbobb (Jul 31, 2019)

PSA: Jaybird just released their new Vista TWE (USB-C and JBS1 chip) that purports to overcome the Run XT's (short-lived) shortcomings:
https://www.theverge.com/circuitbre...ss-headphones-connectivity-good-running-usb-c


----------



## Spamateur (Jul 31, 2019)

My Sony WF1000XM3 are supposed to arrive today. Seems like Best Buy is the only place to currently have them in stock in the US, and only a few stores in my area have it in stock (I ordered online on Monday when they showed no in-store stock). I'll report back when I have some impressions vs. my Mavin Air-X and also my memory of the other TW IEMs I've tried/owned.


----------



## Nimrod Maman

Got the Mpow T5. They are brilliant, sound wise. Stop looking guys... Just get one and get on with it. I returned Tranya T3 after few hours of use and fell in love with the T5 within two minutes of use (even AB them with my LCD XC and the tonality is great!). Some oddity concerning AptX but it is very minor (BT4.1 acts faster then this so called AptX in these T5s). I`m pleased.


----------



## david8613 (Jul 31, 2019)

jlcsoft said:


> I am really happy with the Tranya T3, the sound is better than the syllable s101, it´s a TWS that I recommend by the 39€ I paid in Amazon. In your opinion which one is the next step In sound quality under 100€/$?



I am telling you the tranya t3 are no slouch, I want everyone who has the tranya 3 and try this experiment. I know a lot of us like to listen to music pumping loud to get you up and out of your seat, but take your tranya t3 and pop them in before bed when its a nice and quiet time, and listen to them at a lower volume, like less than half volume. trust me they will surprise you! I mean they sound so good, so clear, so smooth, lots of separation, so nice, dare I say they sound better than my momentum tw, at time yes they do sound better! these thing are great, try my experiment and come back and let me know what you hear at lower volume.


why did you get rid of the tranya t3? the mpow t5 sound that much better? can you explain in detail the differences?


----------



## joshnor713

Spamateur said:


> My Sony WF1000XM3 are supposed to arrive today. Seems like Best Buy is the only place to currently have them in stock in the US, and only a few stores in my area have it in stock (I ordered online on Monday when they showed no in-store stock). I'll report back when I have some impressions vs. my Mavin Air-X and also my memory of the other TW IEMs I've tried/owned.



Dang, I should've pre-ordered with BB. Oh wells. Look forward to your impressions.


----------



## snip3r77

Nimrod Maman said:


> Got the Mpow T5. They are brilliant, sound wise. Stop looking guys... Just get one and get on with it. I returned Tranya T3 after few hours of use and fell in love with the T5 within two minutes of use (even AB them with my LCD XC and the tonality is great!). Some oddity concerning AptX but it is very minor (BT4.1 acts faster then this so called AptX in these T5s). I`m pleased.



Review mentioned that T5,359 and T3 are almost similar. Bass levels from right to left. 359 being most balanced


----------



## vstolpner

david8613 said:


> I am telling you the tranya t3 are no slouch, I want everyone who has the tranya 3 and try this experiment. I know a lot of us like to listen to music pumping loud to get you up and out of your seat, but take your tranya t3 and pop them in before bed when its a nice and quiet time, and listen to them at a lower volume, like less than half volume. trust me they will surprise you! I mean they sound so good, so clear, so smooth, lots of separation, so nice, dare I say they sound better than my momentum tw, at time yes they do sound better! these thing are great, try my experiment and come back and let me know what you hear at lower volume.
> 
> 
> why did you get rid of the tranya t3? the mpow t5 sound that much better? can you explain in detail the differences?



The T5 are much clearer and more balanced that the T3. I think I'll be returning my T3's....
Check my review of the T5's, I compare them with the T3's and 359's.


----------



## clerkpalmer

All right, have spent some additional time with Sony. I may have been a little harsh on them in my first impressions. The sq is very very solid on these. You have to make sure you have enabled AAC and the high res switch in the app for starters. The hi res thing claims it upscales sources. No idea whether it works. I also switched to tidal v apple music. These combined changes have improved things quite a bit along with adjustment to the Sony sound signature. These are pretty impressive. Very detailed, spacious with some genuine feeling of soundstage which I don't typically hear in tw. Not sure it's overall tone beats the mw07 but that maybe subjective. Clarity and detail are superior however. I am using the flat EQ.  The EQ works great but flat seems the best to me. The included hybrid tips are also quite nice.

A few other comments. ANC is as advertised. It is ligjt years ahead of sp700. I even get that ANC "feeling" which I actually don't like. Also the tech and app are quite impressive.

I still am not convinced in the use case for these without any ip rating but I may give them a run in the gym a few times and see how they hold up. I actually hate the piped in gym music and am hoping the ANC solves that for me.


----------



## nc8000

clerkpalmer said:


> All right, have spent some additional time with Sony. I may have been a little harsh on them in my first impressions. The sq is very very solid on these. You have to make sure you have enabled AAC and the high res switch in the app for starters. The hi res thing claims it upscales sources. No idea whether it works. I also switched to tidal v apple music. These combined changes have improved things quite a bit along with adjustment to the Sony sound signature. These are pretty impressive. Very detailed, spacious with some genuine feeling of soundstage which I don't typically hear in tw. Not sure it's overall tone beats the mw07 but that maybe subjective. Clarity and detail are superior however. I am using the flat EQ.  The EQ works great but flat seems the best to me. The included hybrid tips are also quite nice.
> 
> A few other comments. ANC is as advertised. It is ligjt years ahead of sp700. I even get that ANC "feeling" which I actually don't like. Also the tech and app are quite impressive.
> 
> I still am not convinced in the use case for these without any ip rating but I may give them a run in the gym a few times and see how they hold up. I actually hate the piped in gym music and am hoping the ANC solves that for me.



About Apple Music vs. Tidal i assume could have something to do with re-encoding. Apple music is aac so lossy which then is decoded before being mixed and then encoded again so double lossy before being send to the phones whereas Tidal (presumably) is lossless from start before being encoded and send to the phones


----------



## clerkpalmer

nc8000 said:


> About Apple Music vs. Tidal i assume could have something to do with re-encoding. Apple music is aac so lossy which then is decoded before being mixed and then encoded again so double lossy before being send to the phones whereas Tidal (presumably) is lossless from start before being encoded and send to the phones


I am not an expert on AAC encoding over iOS but for some reason i thought using ios meant only one set of encoding rather than 2. Could be wrong. I've never been able to determine whether tidal HiFi offers a meaningful improvement over Apple music over Bluetooth but these combined changes have improved things.


----------



## Nimrod Maman

snip3r77 said:


> Review mentioned that T5,359 and T3 are almost similar. Bass levels from right to left. 359 being most balanced


I`m not a basehead, so even T5 has too much base sometimes for my taste, more than my LCDs and plenty more than QC35 and T2C.


----------



## nc8000

clerkpalmer said:


> I am not an expert on AAC encoding over iOS but for some reason i thought using ios meant only one set of encoding rather than 2. Could be wrong. I've never been able to determine whether tidal HiFi offers a meaningful improvement over Apple music over Bluetooth but these combined changes have improved things.



The phone has to decode the music in order to mix all different sounds from alerts, games and whatever else goes on and then encode the resulting mixed signal to send to the phones


----------



## clerkpalmer

As an aside, kudos to Sony for developing a charging case that doesn't feel like a piece of crap (Sennheiser) or is ridiculously bulky (Apple).  It's a little large but it feels solid as a rock and the fit and magnets are superb and strong.


----------



## joshnor713

So there is a benefit to using TIDAL despite not having a higher bandwidth codec?


----------



## clerkpalmer

joshnor713 said:


> So there is a benefit to using TIDAL despite not having a higher bandwidth codec?


Hopefully someone smarter than me can explain whether tidal offers any improvements over Bluetooth specifically.


----------



## nc8000

joshnor713 said:


> So there is a benefit to using TIDAL despite not having a higher bandwidth codec?



Theoretically there should be as the lossless signal from Tidal means you only encode lossy once whereas the Apple Music aac files are already encoded lossy and are then decoded and mixed with other phone sounds before being encoded lossy again so double lossy encoding. Whether it is audible is a different matter and probably depends on listening environment and ears


----------



## vstolpner

turbobb said:


> PSA: Jaybird just released their new Vista TWE (USB-C and JBS1 chip) that purports to overcome the Run XT's (short-lived) shortcomings:
> https://www.theverge.com/circuitbre...ss-headphones-connectivity-good-running-usb-c



Looks promising! Though, and maybe it's just me, but I can't buy any product named Vista ever since the horrible flop by Microsoft.... Lol


----------



## Bartig

Two newcomers. Let's see about these.


----------



## joshnor713

nc8000 said:


> Theoretically there should be as the lossless signal from Tidal means you only encode lossy once whereas the Apple Music aac files are already encoded lossy and are then decoded and mixed with other phone sounds before being encoded lossy again so double lossy encoding. Whether it is audible is a different matter and probably depends on listening environment and ears



Totally makes sense when you think about it; never did. Just thought about the high-res track getting squashed upon getting sent to the headset, so didn't think there was a point to streaming from TIDAL. But you're right, with a lossy track, you're looking at a compressed file that gets re-coded once again. Interesting.


----------



## actorlife (Jul 31, 2019)

Bartig said:


> Two newcomers. Let's see about these.


Cool curious about the Tiso i5. Seems like a great size for my ears. I hope the SQ is good with volume control and good battery. Bartig is on a roll.


----------



## Boreaquis

Just picked up my Nillkin Go at the post office. Just waiting for it to charge now. 

The charging case is tiny and feels robust, and the IEMs themselves also look great. 

Fingers crossed for the audio quality to match the build quality.


----------



## turbobb

vstolpner said:


> Looks promising! Though, and maybe it's just me, but I can't buy any product named Vista ever since the horrible flop by Microsoft.... Lol


lol omigosh indeed!     It does look to be an interesting product and their JBS1 chip seems to have the equivalent of QC's TWS+ where each earbud connects individually but I'm curious what on the source device would know to keep them in sync? With TWS+ we know it's managed by their 845 chips onwards so it'll be interesting to get this detail. For instance how would they work connected to iPhone? Perhaps there's something between the earbuds that does the syncing despite each receiving their own stream.


----------



## Spamateur

joshnor713 said:


> Dang, I should've pre-ordered with BB. Oh wells. Look forward to your impressions.



Yeah I had been eyeballing them for the past couple weeks and finally pulled the trigger from BB's online store since they were the only one with a stock date before I have a cross-country flight coming up in a couple weeks. I happened to check stock again today, and lo and behold they're available in several nearby BB stores. I really should have just waited to avoid the hassle of dealing with UPS.


----------



## Spamateur

clerkpalmer said:


> All right, have spent some additional time with Sony. I may have been a little harsh on them in my first impressions. The sq is very very solid on these. You have to make sure you have enabled AAC and the high res switch in the app for starters. The hi res thing claims it upscales sources. No idea whether it works. I also switched to tidal v apple music. These combined changes have improved things quite a bit along with adjustment to the Sony sound signature. These are pretty impressive. Very detailed, spacious with some genuine feeling of soundstage which I don't typically hear in tw. Not sure it's overall tone beats the mw07 but that maybe subjective. Clarity and detail are superior however. I am using the flat EQ.  The EQ works great but flat seems the best to me. The included hybrid tips are also quite nice.
> 
> A few other comments. ANC is as advertised. It is ligjt years ahead of sp700. I even get that ANC "feeling" which I actually don't like. Also the tech and app are quite impressive.
> 
> I still am not convinced in the use case for these without any ip rating but I may give them a run in the gym a few times and see how they hold up. I actually hate the piped in gym music and am hoping the ANC solves that for me.



Thanks for the updates. I'm assuming you're using an iPhone as the source?


----------



## TontonRay

Bartig said:


> Two newcomers. Let's see about these.


I have a feeling that the i5 is exactly like the i4 just with a closed, larger capacity case (QCY QS1 vs. QS2).


----------



## actorlife

TontonRay said:


> I have a feeling that the i5 is exactly like the i4 just with a closed, larger capacity case (QCY QS1 vs. QS2).


Did the i4 have vol control? i5 does not have volume control. Dang.


----------



## TontonRay

actorlife said:


> Did the i4 have vol control? i5 does not have volume control. Dang.


Nope. No volume control on either unfortunately..


----------



## igorneumann

joshnor713 said:


> So there is a benefit to using TIDAL despite not having a higher bandwidth codec?


These are 2 different codecs that mess with the signal in different ways, you likely add the mp3 compression to the aac/sbc/aptx one.

That said, I dont notice difference between mp3 over 350kbps and flac.

My Plex setup has everything in 350kbps MP3.


----------



## d3myz

hifi80sman said:


> My quotes were meant tongue & cheek, not literal, given the marketing piece plays up the audio quality.  Disappointing if they didn't push it much further than the WF-SP700N or the original WF-1000X.  Looking forward to more impressions, especially in comparison to the previous Sony models and their high-end competitors (Sennheiser, M&D, B&O).


Aren't these all characteristics of the QCC 5 series chipsets? I guess sony is trying to stay ahead of the game as the 5 series is out but not really in production yet, correct?


----------



## d3myz

snip3r77 said:


> Of the 3 which BT most stable and which one is most comfortable / size ? Thanks


My order would be the T5 is the most comfortable and stable, then the 359 and then the T3, Most bass also from left to right. The Tranya's are very good, but they dont' have much mid range IMO and they are big and I have had some connection hiccups on mine, nothing major, but zero with the 359's and a few pairing issues with the T5, but once you learn they power off separately it's not a big deal.


----------



## nc8000

d3myz said:


> Aren't these all characteristics of the QCC 5 series chipsets? I guess sony is trying to stay ahead of the game as the 5 series is out but not really in production yet, correct?



Sony don’t use Qualcomm for this new one hence the lack of AptX


----------



## d3myz

nc8000 said:


> The phone has to decode the music in order to mix all different sounds from alerts, games and whatever else goes on and then encode the resulting mixed signal to send to the phones


I wonder if this changes when the phone is switched to silent mode? I remember an older program for windows called Foobar that allowed direct access to the sound card via Wasapi for the player, but it shut off all other other windows sounds etc. the sound quality was def. improved.


----------



## nc8000

d3myz said:


> I wonder if this changes when the phone is switched to silent mode? I remember an older program for windows called Foobar that allowed direct access to the sound card via Wasapi for the player, but it shut off all other other windows sounds etc. the sound quality was def. improved.



I don't know but I doubt it and as far as I know there is no equivalent to the Windows kernel mode on iOS and even in silent mode some sounds still go through like the alarm clock


----------



## actorlife

TontonRay said:


> Nope. No volume control on either unfortunately..


Dang that's why I wasn't interested now I remember. I think Anbes is quietly working on something new. ✌️It seems amazon got the common batch being sent out these days and maybe sent them back. My only guess why nothing has popped up since their due date July 27th.


----------



## actorlife

Oh my Magical blue. Mic f%%king drop. Tease. Stunning.


----------



## d3myz

nc8000 said:


> I don't know but I doubt it and as far as I know there is no equivalent to the Windows kernel mode on iOS and even in silent mode some sounds still go through like the alarm clock


Ahh, that's right.


----------



## d3myz (Jul 31, 2019)

This is super random, but does anyone have a multi-meter and a pair of the 359's? i'm curious as to what amperage/voltage the 359's usb-c cable charges at. I recently purchased some usb-c to usb-c cables for an external enclosure for my m.2 SSD and dove down the usb-c cable rabbit hole, fun fact. any usb-c cable that comes with a macbook pro and a 30 or 60w charging block, only supports a 60w max charge and usb 2.0 speeds (40MB/s),  What a rip off apple. I found some 3.3 meter USB-C cables on amazon that do 100w charge, 10Gbps data and 4k video for $3.99. while they are probably Waaay to much for the anbes cable, I tried connecting the anbes cable the usb drive and it powered up, but was not recognized by windows or MacOs, which leads me to believe it's a charging cable only. Moral of the story, while USB-C CAN support quick charging, that doesn't mean it charges any faster than micro usb. and correct me if i'm wrong, but the faster you charge, the less longevity you get from your batteries, so having an TWS with a long 6-12 hour battery life that I can trickly charge slowly over night, is really the best scenario IMO. Thoughts?

Cables Link


----------



## FYLegend

d3myz said:


> This is super random, but does anyone have a multi-meter and a pair of the 359's? i'm curious as to what amperage/voltage the 359's usb-c cable charges at. I recently purchased some usb-c to usb-c cables for an external enclosure for my m.2 SSD and dove down the usb-c cable rabbit hole, fun fact. any usb-c cable that comes with a macbook pro and a 30 or 60w charging block, only supports a 60w max charge and usb 2.0 speeds (40MB/s),  What a rip off apple. I found some 3.3 meter USB-C cables on amazon that do 100w charge, 10Gbps data and 4k video for $3.99. while they are probably Waaay to much for the anbes cable, I tried connecting the anbes cable the usb drive and it powered up, but was not recognized by windows or MacOs, which leads me to believe it's a charging cable only. Moral of the story, while USB-C CAN support quick charging, that doesn't mean it charges any faster than micro usb. and correct me if i'm wrong, but the faster you charge, the less longevity you get from your batteries, so having an TWS with a long 6-12 hour battery life that I can trickly charge slowly over night, is really the best scenario IMO. Thoughts?
> 
> Cables Link


I don't have anything to do measurements but I think Anbes 359, Astrotec S60 and others only use USB 2.0, just with a Type C connector on the Type C end. Hence Type C to C cables will not work - you need to add a Type A female to C male adapter to a Type C to A cable to charge through a Type C power source. microUSB can still have quick charging like on the Jabra 65t.

Earfun Free has quick charge, USB C to C PD support, but the battery case seems poorly calibrated and dies after 50%. I finally received my refund but am disappointed by the situation and how Oluv was dragged into this.


----------



## Bartig

TontonRay said:


> I have a feeling that the i5 is exactly like the i4 just with a closed, larger capacity case (QCY QS1 vs. QS2).


No volume control on these new ones. Now, with the same tips, the new i5 sounds a bit more smooth and a bit darker; with more rolled off highs.



actorlife said:


> Oh my Magical blue. Mic f%%king drop. Tease. Stunning.


For stress relief! +1


----------



## actorlife (Jul 31, 2019)

Bartig said:


> No volume control on these new ones. Now, with the same tips, the new i5 sounds a bit more smooth and a bit darker; with more rolled off highs.
> 
> 
> For stress relief! +1


Here she is her royal blue badass. If these go on sale I'm buying for sure: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07QY77PN2/ref=cm_sw_r_sms_apa_i_6fFqDbG892SNW
Anybody try these yet. I think it was posted before, but these look like the 359 in an ordinary case:
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07PT7B52J/ref=cm_sw_r_sms_apa_i_XqFqDbDA40XSE


----------



## 2bds

any recs for my first TWE? i've only done wired but i'm itching to shed the cord

my priority is comfort above SQ (please don't hurt me). people seem to be loving the mpow t5s, how's the comfort? also slight preference for usb-c charging port. thanks bros and broettes


----------



## d3myz

2bds said:


> any recs for my first TWE? i've only done wired but i'm itching to shed the cord
> 
> my priority is comfort above SQ (please don't hurt me). people seem to be loving the mpow t5s, how's the comfort? also slight preference for usb-c charging port. thanks bros and broettes



You may consider the Back Back Duet's, very light and comfy, sound is above ave. great battery life 5.5-6 hours, ipx 5 etc. it's an all around great TWS.


----------



## FYLegend

actorlife said:


> Here she is her royal blue badass. If these go on sale I'm buying for sure: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07QY77PN2/ref=cm_sw_r_sms_apa_i_6fFqDbG892SNW
> Anybody try these yet. I think it was posted before, but these look like the 359 in an ordinary case:
> https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07PT7B52J/ref=cm_sw_r_sms_apa_i_XqFqDbDA40XSE


Keep an eye on this listing as well. It costs more but seems to be officially listed by Yineme while the other one isn't. 
https://www.amazon.com/Wireless-Blu.../B07G7TDVK4?ref_=bl_dp_s_web_19100588011&th=1

The OEM Ancreu teased this one but their site is downright sloppy and doesn't actually have a listing or info for it. I only see it on Alibaba.


----------



## vstolpner

actorlife said:


> Here she is her royal blue badass. If these go on sale I'm buying for sure: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07QY77PN2/ref=cm_sw_r_sms_apa_i_6fFqDbG892SNW
> Anybody try these yet. I think it was posted before, but these look like the 359 in an ordinary case:
> https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07PT7B52J/ref=cm_sw_r_sms_apa_i_XqFqDbDA40XSE



Yeah I mentioned these a few pages back when they were on daily deals


----------



## Caipirina

actorlife said:


> Oh my Magical blue. Mic f%%king drop. Tease. Stunning.



For Stress Relief! LOL .. selling the case as a kind of fidget spinner


----------



## Caipirina

Boreaquis said:


> Just picked up my Nillkin Go at the post office. Just waiting for it to charge now.
> 
> The charging case is tiny and feels robust, and the IEMs themselves also look great.
> 
> Fingers crossed for the audio quality to match the build quality.



And? And? And?    

I am still on the fence if I feel I really really need those in my flock of  (gaggle of?) TWE  (murder of TWE?)


----------



## Caipirina

Ooooh, how exciting ... more by chance I just came across the tracking info of my KZ T1 and they arrived today in my evil lair's country ... but I won't be there until Saturday, so with no real idea how long customs might take, I am hopeful to actually have them in hands (ears) sometime next week. 

 

anyone else?


----------



## actorlife (Jul 31, 2019)

FYLegend said:


> Keep an eye on this listing as well. It costs more but seems to be officially listed by Yineme while the other one isn't.
> https://www.amazon.com/Wireless-Blu.../B07G7TDVK4?ref_=bl_dp_s_web_19100588011&th=1
> 
> The OEM Ancreu teased this one but their site is downright sloppy and doesn't actually have a listing or info for it. I only see it on Alibaba.


Yep I had that one in my cart but didn't mention it cause the price was high. *Damn I'm love *with that hip hop case UFO I actually like that one more since it's all blue buds. Even has a peace sign. Please let me know if you get more info on them. Great find FYL.


----------



## Boreaquis (Jul 31, 2019)

Caipirina said:


> And? And? And?
> 
> I am still on the fence if I feel I really really need those in my flock of  (gaggle of?) TWE  (murder of TWE?)



Haven't had time to do thorough testing yet, but I've thrown some black and death metal at the Sabbat X12 and the Nillkin Go, and the latter definitely seems to come out ahead.

It has punchier bass and clearer treble, with better instrument separation. Works really well for my taste in music (progressive and extreme metal mostly).

Will post more later, will use it at work and while commuting tomorrow. Feel free to ask any questions you might have.


----------



## Boreaquis

[deleted]


----------



## thusStyles

Bartig said:


> No volume control on these new ones. Now, with the same tips, the new i5 sounds a bit more smooth and a bit darker; with more rolled off highs.



Would you recommend the i5 over the i4? I heard the i5 is meant to have slightly less bass but more detail


----------



## d3myz (Jul 31, 2019)

actorlife said:


> Yep I had that one in my cart but didn't mention it cause the price was high. *Damn I'm love *with that hip hop case UFO I actually like that one more since it's all blue buds. Even has a peace sign. Please let me know if you get more info on them. Great find FYL.



bump


----------



## Caipirina

Boreaquis said:


> Haven't had time to do thorough testing yet, but I've thrown some black and death metal at the Sabbat X12 and the Nillkin Go, and the latter definitely seems to come out ahead.
> 
> It has punchier bass and clearer treble, with better instrument separation. Works really well for my taste in music (progressive and extreme metal mostly).
> 
> Will post more later, will use it at work and while commuting tomorrow. Feel free to ask any questions you might have.



Looks like I just needed a little nudge   ... ordered the red version for 27.99 after coupon ... now the wait begins (again)


----------



## Boreaquis

Caipirina said:


> Looks like I just needed a little nudge   ... ordered the red version for 27.99 after coupon ... now the wait begins (again)



Yeah, I paid less than $30 as well. Difficult to resist at that price point.


----------



## chinmie (Jul 31, 2019)

FYLegend said:


> Keep an eye on this listing as well. It costs more but seems to be officially listed by Yineme while the other one isn't.
> https://www.amazon.com/Wireless-Blu.../B07G7TDVK4?ref_=bl_dp_s_web_19100588011&th=1
> 
> The OEM Ancreu teased this one but their site is downright sloppy and doesn't actually have a listing or info for it. I only see it on Alibaba.



i have a hunch that Ancreu is the manufacturer of that UFO tws. not based on fact though, just a hunch. because all the other brands (anbes included) are more like a rebranding companies, while Ancreu seems to have their own manufacturing facility


----------



## Bartig (Jul 31, 2019)

thusStyles said:


> Would you recommend the i5 over the i4? I heard the i5 is meant to have slightly less bass but more detail


Yes, that's what Tiso told me too. I think it's mainly in the chosen tips though. Sound differences are minimal with comparable tips, although the i5 seems to sound a bit darker and a bit more smooth. The standard tip on the i5 is smaller though, and gives more surrounding noise when you listen. That one sounds more airy than the stock i4 tips do.

This comparison needs more time though.


----------



## keeya

Sony's new WF-1000XM3 got a rave review in Engadget just now:
https://www.engadget.com/2019/07/31/sony-wf-1000xm3-review-true-wireless-earbuds


----------



## Bartig (Jul 31, 2019)

Oh, I ordered two new models:


The next Tronsmart installment with, again, an awkward name. The first Spunky Buds were quite good sports buds with some flaws. Hope they improved this time.



And look! It's UiiSii's entry to the wireless market. Let's hope the TWS60 is a hit between their many misses.


----------



## chinmie

Bartig said:


> Oh, I ordered two new models, for everyone interested:
> 
> 
> The next Tronsmart installment with, again, an awkward name. The firsr Spunky Buds were quite good sports buds with mayor flaws. Hope they improved this time.
> ...



i have high hopes that uiisii would be good, based on their other products and also based on that i didn't find similar formed tws like this, so think it is their own making. the only thing that held me back is the touch controls

this new entries from whizzer also seems interesting:

 

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33056453324.html

 

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33057751221.html

both with clicky buttons, which i like. no volume on the white one from what i read


----------



## Slater

chinmie said:


> it intrigues me on why Sony still sticking to AAC and SBC only, even though they own the LDAC codec...



My guess is that LDAC requires a large amount of processing power or other resources (such as bandwidth, battery density), and the currently available technology just isn’t up to the task yet. I mean, would you want a TW earphone that lasted 1 hour? I wouldn’t.

However, that’s just speculation. The real reason could be totally different.


----------



## snip3r77

Sorry , any of you know if there is a wireless headphone thread for Chifi thanks ?


----------



## clerkpalmer

Spamateur said:


> Thanks for the updates. I'm assuming you're using an iPhone as the source?


Yes


----------



## Slater

Bartig said:


> Oh, I ordered two new models:
> 
> 
> 
> And look! It's UiiSii's entry to the wireless market. Let's hope the TWS60 is a hit between their many misses.



I’ll be interested as to how the UiiSiis turn out.


----------



## FYLegend

chinmie said:


> i have a hunch that Ancreu is the manufacturer of that UFO tws. not based on fact though, just a hunch. because all the other brands (anbes included) are more like a rebranding companies, while Ancreu seems to have their own manufacturing facility


Yeah, but several manufacturers also have BE30 listed. On Alibaba Ancreu is listed as the brand for some of the UFO TWS. On the other hand, Dogo appears to be an actual manufacturer and has a classic BE30 as well as a redesigned BE30E.


----------



## 2bds

d3myz said:


> You may consider the Back Back Duet's, very light and comfy, sound is above ave. great battery life 5.5-6 hours, ipx 5 etc. it's an all around great TWS.



Thanks, I bought, today's the last day of the July sale, it must have been fate


----------



## chinmie

Slater said:


> My guess is that LDAC requires a large amount of processing power or other resources (such as bandwidth, battery density), and the currently available technology just isn’t up to the task yet. I mean, would you want a TW earphone that lasted 1 hour? I wouldn’t.
> 
> However, that’s just speculation. The real reason could be totally different.



i agree, although product like ES100 can do LDAC with good amount of playtime. i guess TWS can do that but with the expense of larger form factor. 

anyways, from what i experience myself, aptx and AAC don't sound much different, especially on the BT 5.0 devices. AAC does seems to sound a bit worse on my BT4.x devices compared to the BT 5.0, while APTX doesn't seem to be different at all between BT 4.x and BT 5.0. 

if only Sony implemented aptx on their older tws (that uses qualcomm chip, apparently), maybe it won't have those random hiccups in connection, which is essentially their Achilles heel, based on people's reviews.

On the newer devices, the difference between AAC and APTX is minimal that it might not matter anymore, so i think Sony is better off with their current decision on sticking to AAC, using their non-qualcomm chip, but provide a robust battery life, connection, and ANC. 

if only I'm not currently spoiled with this great sounding chifis in my collection, i might purchase the Sony some time in the near future


----------



## howdy

Anyone with the XM3s and XM1s know for a fact that the XM3 have more volume (louder).


----------



## actorlife (Jul 31, 2019)

FYLegend said:


> Yeah, but several manufacturers also have BE30 listed. On Alibaba Ancreu is listed as the brand for some of the UFO TWS. On the other hand, Dogo appears to be an actual manufacturer and has a classic BE30 as well as a redesigned BE30E.


And more designs by ancreu: https://m.alibaba.com/amp/product/62153275679.html


----------



## clerkpalmer

howdy said:


> Anyone with the XM3s and XM1s know for a fact that the XM3 have more volume (louder).



Not directly but I can say that unless you like to listen at unsafe volumes, the xm3s are plenty loud. I’m at 50 percent on my iPhone and there’s plenty of headroom.


----------



## howdy

clerkpalmer said:


> Not directly but I can say that unless you like to listen at unsafe volumes, the xm3s are plenty loud. I’m at 50 percent on my iPhone and there’s plenty of headroom.


I'm just gonna have to buy these. I've been seeing a lot of promising reviews on YouTube and on the web. 
Are you liking them more?


----------



## Spamateur (Jul 31, 2019)

Aight, got the Sony WF1000XM3 in the mail.

The case took probably 40 min to charge up. I was using a USB-C to USB-C cable from a 3A adapter so that seemed surprisingly long.

Pairing with NFC was seamless much like it is with their over-ear bluetooth cans. Thanks, Sony!

The case is beautifully designed despite being a tad larger than I'd like. It feels very much like a Sony premium product worthy of the price, which is not something I ever felt about the original WF-1000x. The brushed metal lid and soft-touch material on the case feel great in the hand are quite eye-catching.

The fit was easy. My left ear is a weird fit and always seems to give me trouble with universal IEMs, but the large hybrid tips seem to work well. I've always thought the Sony hybrids are some of the best in the business, so I was happy to see a version of those included here. The XM3 has a deeper insertion than most TW models which helps.

The noise cancelling is pretty amazing by TW IEM standards. They don't block out external noise as well as well-fitting CIEMs or Sony's own over-ear ANC cans but they're by far the best isolation in terms of TW models that I've tried.

They sound pretty good. They're warm with the usual Sony midbass hump, but luckily that bass emphasis doesn't bleed into the mids like they do in the Cambridge Melomania 1. There's none of the chestiness with the XM3s that you get with the Cambridge . The mids and lower treble have a bit of a smooth, hazy quality so that the leading edge of notes can sound indistinct. For example, there is some bite missing from big rock guitar power chords or other dynamic flourishes. This presentation feels like a conscious tuning choice to keep the XM3 easy-listening and tone down any aggression. Don't get me wrong--the XM3s aren't dark-sounding, but in the mids they're a bit laid-back. At the top of the spectrum there's the typical treble spike you get with a consumer-friendly sound signature, but even with that treble spike the XM3 sound a tad closed-in and lacking in air. I really hate how most of these TW models lack a smooth and even treble response, but the Sony has a bit of sparkle and treble definition. The aforementioned treble spike is mostly well-controlled without splashiness or excessive sharpness.

In terms of resolution, they're fine. They're not detail retrieval monsters (and who would expect them to be without lossless codec support) but they're more than passable for a consumer-friendly sound signature. I'm using a Pixel 3 XL streaming CD-quality Tidal (probably doesn't matter when limited to AAC) and they sound nice enough for me to get lost in the music, but they aren't as revealing or have the tonal accuracy of my benchmark TW IEMs, the Mavin Air-X.

Speaking of, comparing the XM3 to the Mavin Air-X, the Mavins are better-sounding. The Mavins are cohesive through the entire frequency range and the overall presentation is like listening to an excellent 2-channel speaker system.

If I had to score everything I've owned or heard in terms of sound quality (mostly from memory):

Mavin Air-X: 9
Sennheiser MTW: 7.25
Bose SoundSport Free: 6.75
Sony XM3: 6.5
MW07: 6
RHA TrueConnect: 6
Cambridge Melomania 1: 6
Jabra 65t: 4.5
CKR7TW: 3

Scoring in terms of overall product experience (build quality, battery life, case size, features, specs):
I'm excluding the MW07 because I only got to listen to it for an hour.

Sony XM3: 8
Mavin Air-X: 7.5
Cambridge Melomania 1: 7
Jabra 65t: 6.5
RHA TrueConnect: 6.5
Bose SoundSport Free: 6
CKR7TW: 4
Sennheiser MTW: 3 (battery woes and bugs galore)

I'm not sure if I'm going to keep the XM3. I'm still stumped as to why Sony left out LDAC or aptX support, as that alone is such a big strike in my eyes. We'll see how I feel after a few days.


----------



## clerkpalmer

howdy said:


> I'm just gonna have to buy these. I've been seeing a lot of promising reviews on YouTube and on the web.
> Are you liking them more?



Yes and no. I am doing some a/b comparing against my Powerbeats pro and the sq is very similar and close. The Beats hit a little deeper and don’t isolate as well but have sweat proofing. The Sony are tech forward with anc. Probably better clarity and resolution and soundstage but it’s pretty close. I’m on the fence on returning them largely because primary use case is the gym so I’m not sure how much use they will get. 

If you decide you want to buy a set Pm me. I might be willing to ship them to you and you can save a little bit of dough and I could avoid the hassle of a Best Buy return. No pressure just offering it as an idea.


----------



## clerkpalmer

I should add that comparing them to the Powerbeats pro in terms of sq is a complement. The beats cost more and sound very good. So it’s not really a slight on the Sony’s. Spamateur I agree with much of your post but I would probably slot the Sony’s ahead of the rha and the Bose and I like the sq on those both. Definitely a matter of preference.


----------



## Spamateur

I swapped back to the Mavin Air-X after a few hours of listening to the Sony XM3. Two thoughts:

My head started to feel a little head-achey after awhile with the Sony. I don't know if it was the noise cancellation or the deep fit, or the fact that I listened for 3 hours straight, but I felt a bit fatigued. I swapped the Air-X back and I was back to jamming. No more fatigue. 

I love the features of the Sony and think the sound is pretty good, but hot damn is the Air-X just plain _great_. Listening back-to-back really highlights how the XM3 falls short of the Air-X in terms of ultimate clarity, natural tonality, resolution, realism, linear frequency response and imaging.


----------



## hifi80sman

Spamateur said:


> I swapped back to the Mavin Air-X after a few hours of listening to the Sony XM3. Two thoughts:
> 
> My head started to feel a little head-achey after awhile with the Sony. I don't know if it was the noise cancellation or the deep fit, or the fact that I listened for 3 hours straight, but I felt a bit fatigued. I swapped the Air-X back and I was back to jamming. No more fatigue.
> 
> I love the features of the Sony and think the sound is pretty good, but hot damn is the Air-X just plain _great_. Listening back-to-back really highlights how the XM3 falls short of the Air-X in terms of ultimate clarity, natural tonality, resolution, realism, linear frequency response and imaging.


You’re making me want the Air-X now!  How’s the call quality on those?


----------



## Peddler (Aug 1, 2019)

I too rate the Mavin Air-X very highly. I've not had any negative comments made regarding their mike quality during calls.

I just wish they would use the aptx protocol automatically instead of defaulting to aac every time they connect to my phone.

I'm also on the lookout for tips that will work with the Mavin's - the ones supplied don't offer the very best fit for me - the problem is that the tubes on the Mavin's are completely smooth so most tips just slide right off.


----------



## LajostheHun

Spamateur said:


> Aight, got the Sony WF1000XM3 in the mail.
> 
> The case took probably 40 min to charge up. I was using a USB-C to USB-C cable from a 3A adapter so that seemed surprisingly long.
> 
> ...


 I got my XM3 as well, while I agree with many of the things you posted here, I guess I'm a bit more enthusiastic about it, mostly because it's  very well compete with my desktop set up, which is while not super expensive it is nonetheless  high quality objectively speaking. All of the chi-fi TWS I had the [un] pleasure to sample and own the last 6 months the Sony easily out paces them all by a wide margin, and it should for the money, the closest BT phone  in my collection is the neckband style Sennheiser HD 1, but overall I do prefer the Sony even the HD1 has Aptx. Speaking of Aptx, I think Sony wanted this product to be competitive price wise and probably made the decision that LDAC or Aptx HD would be less useful[ and potentially harder on the battery ]  for most people  vs the NC feature which is very popular indeed among the general public. I'm guessing Sony will release in the future a  model that more aimed at audio enthusiasts  than the typical user. Having said that I'm very happy with the XM3 so far....


----------



## gibletzor

So after I sent back the Funcl W1s I had picked up around Prime Day, I saw the Aukey T10s on a lightning deal one night for $75.  With the Qi charging, USB-C, and the good review on sound quality from a few people here I went for em.  SQ is better than the W1s, but not a ton.  Bass is a little less overpowering than the W1s and the treble is clearer and stronger.  Instrument separation is good.  The connection strength is worlds better!  I was getting random dropouts on the right ear with the W1s and I was only able to walk a few feet away if I set my phone down before they'd start skipping and losing connection, and that's without any walls in between.  With the T10s I was able to leave my phone in the bedroom and walk ~25 feet to the kitchen with 3 walls in between before I started losing connection.  And when I had them connected to my PC I could get ~30-35 feet away and up a floor in the house and no connection issues at all.  I haven't done any call testing yet, but these are probably keepers.

You people keep tempting me to grab some T5s and start my own mini-hoard too though!


----------



## nc8000

Spamateur said:


> Aight, got the Sony WF1000XM3 in the mail.
> 
> The case took probably 40 min to charge up. I was using a USB-C to USB-C cable from a 3A adapter so that seemed surprisingly long.
> 
> ...



AptX is out as Sony don’t use Qualcomm in this model. My guess is they left out LDAC due to battery time. Using Tidal lossless should make an (at least technical) difference as it only gets encoded lossy once as opposed to any lossy file format that end up double lossy encoded. Also a large share of the mobile market is Apple and they only support aac but have the best implementation on the market so my guess would be that the Sony possibly sounds best when paired with an Apple device


----------



## FYLegend

How is SBC on the 1000XM3? It's a make or break if you have Windows laptop, though I hope DSEE HX can improve the output signal to some extent...

These new House of Marley look nice but no info on codecs (I'd assume SBC and AAC)
https://www.thehouseofmarley.com/liberate-air.html


----------



## Soreniglio

@Bartig Very curious about those pencil-shaped Tiso!


----------



## Mouseman

gibletzor said:


> So after I sent back the Funcl W1s I had picked up around Prime Day, I saw the Aukey T10s on a lightning deal one night for $75.  With the Qi charging, USB-C, and the good review on sound quality from a few people here I went for em.  SQ is better than the W1s, but not a ton.  Bass is a little less overpowering than the W1s and the treble is clearer and stronger.  Instrument separation is good.  The connection strength is worlds better!  I was getting random dropouts on the right ear with the W1s and I was only able to walk a few feet away if I set my phone down before they'd start skipping and losing connection, and that's without any walls in between.  With the T10s I was able to leave my phone in the bedroom and walk ~25 feet to the kitchen with 3 walls in between before I started losing connection.  And when I had them connected to my PC I could get ~30-35 feet away and up a floor in the house and no connection issues at all.  I haven't done any call testing yet, but these are probably keepers.
> 
> You people keep tempting me to grab some T5s and start my own mini-hoard too though!


Just go ahead and do it! I got mine when they were on sale, and I'm beyond impressed. The SQ is fantastic, and other than the ultra-strong magnets in the case that challenge me every time I try to get them out (I'm sure I'll figure out a good way to get them eventually), it's a great set.


----------



## Spamateur

hifi80sman said:


> You’re making me want the Air-X now!  How’s the call quality on those?



Mic quality seems "just ok". They're not as bad as my car's bluetooth calling quality, but people on the other end of the line definitely know I'm on a bluetooth headset of some sort. I haven't tried making any calls in a noisy environment (just in my office or home) so I haven't tested the noise cancelling on the mic, but Mavin claims it's using some sort of "cVc noise reduction" for calls.


----------



## Spamateur

FYLegend said:


> How is SBC on the 1000XM3? It's a make or break if you have Windows laptop, though I hope DSEE HX can improve the output signal to some extent...



I tried switching DSEE HX on and off, and the only difference I could hear (streaming from a Pixel 3 XL with Tidal redbook quality) was that with DSEE on, the sound got a tad sharper, but not in a good way. It was like turning up sharpness picture setting on a TV... it didn't actually improve the sound so much as just make it slightly more defined in an artificial manner. I ended up doing 90% of my listening with it off.


----------



## Spamateur

Peddler said:


> I too rate the Mavin Air-X very highly. I've not had any negative comments made regarding their mike quality during calls.
> 
> I just wish they would use the aptx protocol automatically instead of defaulting to aac every time they connect to my phone.
> 
> I'm also on the lookout for tips that will work with the Mavin's - the ones supplied don't offer the very best fit for me - the problem is that the tubes on the Mavin's are completely smooth so most tips just slide right off.



What phone are you using? My Pixel 3 XL automatically connects to the Mavin via aptX HD and did so from the first Bluetooth pairing with my phone, but I didn't realize it might not be automatic with all phones.

I literally tried 3 or 4 different types of Comply foam tips and none of them worked because the bore size was always too small for the large nozzles on the Air-X. Per @mikp 's recommendation I went to aliExpress and ordered some "QKZ T400" memory foam tips that work well. They only seem to offer them in medium size, but I have large ears and they work ok. They're a pain to get on the nozzles, but they work because the bore stretches unlike the Comply foams. I also have found the Spinfit CP155 tips work well, but they can get pushed all the way down the nozzle so you don't get as deep of an insertion. The foam tips from aliexpress sound the best to my ears.


----------



## clerkpalmer

Spamateur said:


> I swapped back to the Mavin Air-X after a few hours of listening to the Sony XM3. Two thoughts:
> 
> My head started to feel a little head-achey after awhile with the Sony. I don't know if it was the noise cancellation or the deep fit, or the fact that I listened for 3 hours straight, but I felt a bit fatigued. I swapped the Air-X back and I was back to jamming. No more fatigue.
> 
> I love the features of the Sony and think the sound is pretty good, but hot damn is the Air-X just plain _great_. Listening back-to-back really highlights how the XM3 falls short of the Air-X in terms of ultimate clarity, natural tonality, resolution, realism, linear frequency response and imaging.



Are you guys telling me the Mavin air x really sounds better than the mw07 and mtw? Because if you are telling the truth and not lying through your teeth, I’m going to have to buy them.edit the reviews I have seen do not reference class leading sq. They all seem to like the sq but none I have read have indicated that it beats the big boys.


----------



## Luchyres

clerkpalmer said:


> Are you guys telling me the Mavin air x really sounds better than the mw07 and mtw? Because if you are telling the truth and not lying through your teeth, I’m going to have to buy them.edit the reviews I have seen do not reference class leading sq. They all seem to like the sq but none I have read have indicated that it beats the big boys.



In seeing this resurgence of Mavin Air-X comments - I thought I'd chime in; 

I may not have had the best Mavin Air-X (maybe I got a bad version) but I was not pleased with the audio quality - the air-x was lacking in bass and had a slight resonance/rattle for me. The call quality was also below that of the Anbes 359, in my case, and my gf refused to talk to me when I had them in (she could 'hear' the difference) . 

The Air-X only lasted a few days for me before I sent them back - I can't quite remember what I was comparing them to at the time, but I was not very excited about the Mavin's - and I figured I'd wait to see their QCC 5xxx update. I would definitely not say they were better, sound wise, than the MTW.


----------



## d3myz

Just an update I've gotten several compliments on the call quality on the Back Bay Duet 50. used it in my car on the freeway, outside and in noisy environments around lots of kids. Very impressed with these overall.


----------



## joshnor713

The left earpiece of my MTW just died . First noticed a "clanking" sound upon insertion. Sounded like driver flex. But then the sound started cutting out, and now no sound at all. Bought this pair last Dec, and it was a replacement to a first pair that had a hissing issue on one earpiece.

I'm a fan of Sennheiser, but man, the quality of this product has put a dent in my view. Anyone else have quality issue(s) with theirs? Glad Senn has a decent warranty period. Gonna hit them up.


----------



## 05stisilver

clerkpalmer said:


> Are you guys telling me the Mavin air x really sounds better than the mw07 and mtw? Because if you are telling the truth and not lying through your teeth, I’m going to have to buy them.edit the reviews I have seen do not reference class leading sq. They all seem to like the sq but none I have read have indicated that it beats the big boys.



Having owned the MTW and currently have the Nuarl NT01-AX and Mavin Air-x the Mavin's do not sound better than the MTW or the Nuarl's. I can't speak for the call quality. The only reason I grab the Mavin's over the Nuarl's is because of form factor (Nuarl's are huge) and battery life. But for pure listening enjoyment the Nuarl's are better. In my opinion they are comparable to the Samsung Galaxy buds which I wish I would have kept and returned the Mavin's.


----------



## chinmie (Aug 1, 2019)

clerkpalmer said:


> Are you guys telling me the Mavin air x really sounds better than the mw07 and mtw? Because if you are telling the truth and not lying through your teeth, I’m going to have to buy them.edit the reviews I have seen do not reference class leading sq. They all seem to like the sq but none I have read have indicated that it beats the big boys.



having tried the mavin and nuarl briefly, I'd say i enjoyed the nuarl sound better. the Mavin have brighter and more brittle sound, while the nuarl has a softer and warmer mids. i still enjoy the Sony wf-1000x as well most other chifi tws i have compared to the mavin and nuarl though


----------



## vladzakhar

d3myz said:


> Just an update I've gotten several compliments on the call quality on the Back Bay Duet 50. used it in my car on the freeway, outside and in noisy environments around lots of kids. Very impressed with these overall.



Same here. I rank them better then Mpaw T5's. The sound is more balanced. Vocals sound better. The battery life is longer.


----------



## d3myz

vladzakhar said:


> Same here. I rank them better then Mpaw T5's. The sound is more balanced. Vocals sound better. The battery life is longer.


Hmm.. I definitely don't think the sound quality of the Duo is better, it's less crisp and accurate to me and the duo's lack the punch of the T5s, the T5's have more elevated mids and I get much better vocals, the duo's are a bit more recessed, but they are definitely balanced and all around great performer. They are lighter and more comfortable to wear for long periods for me. I've only had them for 3-4 days, so i'm sure they are still burning in. What tips do you use for the duo's and T5's? I'm using s/m JVC spiral dots, they are a wide bore. I need to get some other tips. They stock tips on the T5 sounded like garbage to me. I pretty much put my spiral dots on every pair compare.


----------



## Bartig

chinmie said:


> i have high hopes that uiisii would be good, based on their other products and also based on that i didn't find similar formed tws like this, so think it is their own making. the only thing that held me back is the touch controls
> 
> this new entries from whizzer also seems interesting:
> 
> ...


I've got two Whizzer TP1's. Both are faulty. I'd be careful with these.


----------



## vladzakhar

d3myz said:


> Hmm.. I definitely don't think the sound quality of the Duo is better, it's less crisp and accurate to me and the duo's lack the punch of the T5s, the T5's have more elevated mids and I get much better vocals, the duo's are a bit more recessed, but they are definitely balanced and all around great performer. They are lighter and more comfortable to wear for long periods for me. I've only had them for 3-4 days, so i'm sure they are still burning in. What tips do you use for the duo's and T5's? I'm using s/m JVC spiral dots, they are a wide bore. I need to get some other tips. They stock tips on the T5 sounded like garbage to me. I pretty much put my spiral dots on every pair compare.



I am using spin fit tips with Duet. For the vocals sound definitely better here. Cleaner and more cohesive.


----------



## d3myz

vladzakhar said:


> I am using spin fit tips with Duet. For the vocals sound definitely better here. Cleaner and more cohesive.


I'll have to try them out, which model spinfit?


----------



## Spamateur (Aug 1, 2019)

Hmmm... to hear that someone finds the Mavin Air-X "bright" is a surprise to me. I can't stand a bright or fatiguing sound signature, which is why I've had bad experiences with a lot of Audio-Technica headphones, ESS Sabre-based DACs, and the Sennheiser HD700 and HD800 more specifically. The Air-X isn't anywhere near bright to my ears. The general sound signature reminds me of the HD650 with more presence and extension, or maybe even the LCD3F (not in terms of technicalities but in terms of raw frequency response). In 6 months of ownership I've never heard a hint of glare or sibilance or brightness (unless it's already in the recording). However, unlike most TW IEMs I've heard, they don't have an obvious dip in the presence region that I can detect, so you get a lot more detail and resolution than you normally get with TW IEMs.

I'm wondering if folks who find them "bright" or "brittle" might be having fit issues finding a good seal, but even that doesn't make sense to me as mine have never sounded brittle at any point. At worst there's occasionally a touch of grain, but I've heard that with all TW IEMs except for maybe the MTW or Bose SSF, both of which do a good job walking the line between resolution and smoothness. 

I just did another back-to-back swap with the Sony XM3 and Air-X and the Sony definitely sound more bombastic and forward with a bigger bass thump. The XM3 has a larger soundstage, incidentally. I think the Air-X has slightly better imaging, but the Sony definitely is more enveloping for lack of a better term.

I definitely can't guarantee the Mavin Air-X is the best IEM for everyone's tastes, but for mine they're spot-on.


----------



## Spamateur

clerkpalmer said:


> Are you guys telling me the Mavin air x really sounds better than the mw07 and mtw? Because if you are telling the truth and not lying through your teeth, I’m going to have to buy them.edit the reviews I have seen do not reference class leading sq. They all seem to like the sq but none I have read have indicated that it beats the big boys.



Well, we all know this hobby is highly subjective so I'd hate to have you buy something you might not like. I think a lot of people would find the Air-X boring if they really love a bombastic, forward signature, but I find them involving and highly musical. However, I've never once found them bright or brittle, and I can't stand a bright sound signature. I think if you really like the MTW you might find the Mavins a bit laid-back, but they have more presence than the Sony XM3. I personally really liked the MTW but have to admit I found them to be a bit cold and steely. If you've heard the Bose SoundSport Free the Air-X sound sort of like a better version of that.


----------



## clerkpalmer

Spamateur said:


> Well, we all know this hobby is highly subjective so I'd hate to have you buy something you might not like. I think a lot of people would find the Air-X boring if they really love a bombastic, forward signature, but I find them involving and highly musical. However, I've never once found them bright or brittle, and I can't stand a bright sound signature. I think if you really like the MTW you might find the Mavins a bit laid-back, but they have more presence than the Sony XM3. I personally really liked the MTW but have to admit I found them to be a bit cold and steely. If you've heard the Bose SoundSport Free the Air-X sound sort of like a better version of that.


Definitely like the Bose SSF. 130 is a tough price though. A little too much to take a flyer on. Hmmmm.


----------



## hifi80sman

Spamateur said:


> I tried switching DSEE HX on and off, and the only difference I could hear (streaming from a Pixel 3 XL with Tidal redbook quality) was that with DSEE on, the sound got a tad sharper, but not in a good way. It was like turning up sharpness picture setting on a TV... it didn't actually improve the sound so much as just make it slightly more defined in an artificial manner. I ended up doing 90% of my listening with it off.


That's exactly what I found with their DSEE processing; it sounds "processed".  I always turn it off.  On the over-ear XM3, the difference is noticeable.  You go from a natural (amplified) sound, to a slightly "computerized" characteristic.  It's subtle with some tracks, but more noticeable with others.  More marketing behind DSEE than actual "upscaling".


----------



## Spamateur

clerkpalmer said:


> Definitely like the Bose SSF. 130 is a tough price though. A little too much to take a flyer on. Hmmmm.



Oof yeah I see they raised the price back up by $20 since they were on sale a couple weeks ago. Looks like you can get them off Amazon with Prime shipping, so at least you have a great return policy if you decide to return em. Let me know if you ever get a chance to give them a listen. I'd love your feedback as these mixed reactions are really surprising to me considering how damn picky I am, but I guess everyone likes something different.


----------



## hifi80sman

clerkpalmer said:


> Definitely like the Bose SSF. 130 is a tough price though. A little too much to take a flyer on. Hmmmm.


You can always return it...


----------



## clerkpalmer

hifi80sman said:


> You can always return it...


I live in fear of being banned by amazon and Best Buy for life. If amazon ever banned me, my wife would chop my n@ts off.


----------



## Spamateur

Luchyres said:


> In seeing this resurgence of Mavin Air-X comments - I thought I'd chime in;
> 
> I may not have had the best Mavin Air-X (maybe I got a bad version) but I was not pleased with the audio quality - the air-x was lacking in bass and had a slight resonance/rattle for me. The call quality was also below that of the Anbes 359, in my case, and my gf refused to talk to me when I had them in (she could 'hear' the difference) .
> 
> The Air-X only lasted a few days for me before I sent them back - I can't quite remember what I was comparing them to at the time, but I was not very excited about the Mavin's - and I figured I'd wait to see their QCC 5xxx update. I would definitely not say they were better, sound wise, than the MTW.



Ahhh yeah that sounds really unfortunate and differs from my own experience, especially the rattle/resonance you report. I hate to chalk this up to variance in build quality (they're not the most premium-feeling TW model by any means) but it sounds like something might be wrong with the pair you got? I get plenty of bass thump and I definitely like bass north of neutral. I can't argue with you about the call quality though... they're probably middling in that regard although functional enough for work conference calls in my experience.


----------



## hifi80sman

clerkpalmer said:


> I live in fear of being banned by amazon and Best Buy for life. If amazon ever banned me, my wife would chop my n@ts off.


I got a 90 day ban from Best Buy once, but then I just started paying cash and returning at different Best Buy locations, as to not be "made".  They never once asked for ID.

I buy so much stuff on Amazon that a few returns here and there never affect me.  I did receive a "we're concerned" email once, but that was early on in this hobby and I literally returned like 12 pairs of headphones, in like, 12 days.


----------



## Aerosphere

I am quite happy with the performance I get from mere 17$ Airdots... I wonder where this is going ^^


----------



## clerkpalmer

hifi80sman said:


> I got a 90 day ban from Best Buy once, but then I just started paying cash and returning at different Best Buy locations, as to not be "made".  They never once asked for ID.
> 
> I buy so much stuff on Amazon that a few returns here and there never affect me.  I did receive a "we're concerned" email once, but that was early on in this hobby and I literally returned like 12 pairs of headphones, in like, 12 days.



Enabler.


----------



## actorlife (Aug 1, 2019)

In 3 months all these TWS will all be on sale in time for Black Friday. I can't wait to try and return if sh%t. Going UFO crazy if those new designs ever get a release. Give me give me give me. Rahaha


----------



## Spamateur

hifi80sman said:


> I got a 90 day ban from Best Buy once, but then I just started paying cash and returning at different Best Buy locations, as to not be "made".  They never once asked for ID.
> 
> I buy so much stuff on Amazon that a few returns here and there never affect me.  I did receive a "we're concerned" email once, but that was early on in this hobby and I literally returned like 12 pairs of headphones, in like, 12 days.



Hahahaha oh man. I try to keep my returns infrequent enough to not get flagged. Luckily there aren't enough TW IEMs I'm legitimately interested in for that to be a problem, and mostly staying away from Chifi has helped in that regard with the plethora of rebranded OEM units out there.


----------



## Spamateur

05stisilver said:


> Having owned the MTW and currently have the Nuarl NT01-AX and Mavin Air-x the Mavin's do not sound better than the MTW or the Nuarl's. I can't speak for the call quality. The only reason I grab the Mavin's over the Nuarl's is because of form factor (Nuarl's are huge) and battery life. But for pure listening enjoyment the Nuarl's are better. In my opinion they are comparable to the Samsung Galaxy buds which I wish I would have kept and returned the Mavin's.



I haven't heard the Nuarl, but could you expand on what you like about them versus the Air-X? I might have to give them a shot.

FWIW, I don't think one is objectively better than another as we all know it's a matter of personal preference, and I preferred the Mavin to the MTW, although the bugs and build quality/design issues I had with the latter probably strongly colored my experience.


----------



## 05stisilver

Spamateur said:


> I haven't heard the Nuarl, but could you expand on what you like about them versus the Air-X? I might have to give them a shot.
> 
> FWIW, I don't think one is objectively better than another as we all know it's a matter of personal preference, and I preferred the Mavin to the MTW, although the bugs and build quality/design issues I had with the latter probably strongly colored my experience.



I love the Nuarl's high's. I feel they are more resolving, articulate, and textured than the Mavin's. They also dare I say make the Mavin's seem a bit muddy and dark. The Nuarl's also have more of a low end presence as well. It is possible from your previous comments that the high's maybe a bit too much for your liking. Someone also posted a while back about the high's of the Nuarl as well and how they loved them (it may have been actorlife).


----------



## jant71 (Aug 1, 2019)

d3myz said:


> Just an update I've gotten several compliments on the call quality on the Back Bay Duet 50. used it in my car on the freeway, outside and in noisy environments around lots of kids. Very impressed with these overall.





vladzakhar said:


> Same here. I rank them better then Mpaw T5's. The sound is more balanced. Vocals sound better. The battery life is longer.



Been Using the the Duet 50 with my AGPtek player and MP3 players do carry their sigs into BT. Really like how these two match with enough bass and detail but the vocals are more the star of the show. Quite impressed yesterday at the focus and clarity and intelligibility of words on some songs. Even if I sound like that Amazon review that was impressive regardless of wired or wireless. Just very good.

I too have gotten more attached to the BB since the first day or two. They are almost as good as the glowing Amazon reviews  now up to around 25 now from the 11 when I first pulled the trigger.


----------



## d3myz

clerkpalmer said:


> I live in fear of being banned by amazon and Best Buy for life. If amazon ever banned me, my wife would chop my n@ts off.


I just returned 7 sets of TWS' this week to Amazon.  No ban, but like @hifi80sman, I too buy so much stuff from amazon, they'd probably be losing a small chunk of change if they banned me.


----------



## d3myz

BigZ12 said:


> https://www.lypertek.com/product-page/lypertek-tevi-truly-wireless-earphones
> I haven't found another place to buy them than here. Wish they were a litt cheaper. Maybe someone can find them on another site with a lower price?


These look nice, but as mentioned the price is a little steep. The specs are exactly on par with the MPOW T5, but I don't believe the T5 uses a graphene driver. I'd really like to get my hands on some at a lower price.


----------



## chinmie

Spamateur said:


> Hmmm... to hear that someone finds the Mavin Air-X "bright" is a surprise to me. I can't stand a bright or fatiguing sound signature, which is why I've had bad experiences with a lot of Audio-Technica headphones, ESS Sabre-based DACs, and the Sennheiser HD700 and HD800 more specifically. The Air-X isn't anywhere near bright to my ears. The general sound signature reminds me of the HD650 with more presence and extension, or maybe even the LCD3F (not in terms of technicalities but in terms of raw frequency response). In 6 months of ownership I've never heard a hint of glare or sibilance or brightness (unless it's already in the recording). However, unlike most TW IEMs I've heard, they don't have an obvious dip in the presence region that I can detect, so you get a lot more detail and resolution than you normally get with TW IEMs.
> 
> I'm wondering if folks who find them "bright" or "brittle" might be having fit issues finding a good seal, but even that doesn't make sense to me as mine have never sounded brittle at any point. At worst there's occasionally a touch of grain, but I've heard that with all TW IEMs except for maybe the MTW or Bose SSF, both of which do a good job walking the line between resolution and smoothness.
> 
> ...



maybe the way i described it only half way, that people mistook what i rrally meant. 
when i tried them i have a good seal, so no problem with fitting.
what i described as bright and brittle is only the treble part. in no means that I'm saying the mavin is lacking bass at all. (I'm sorry for not being clear before). it has ample amount of bass and subbass, it's just the treble  when compared to the nuarl is like comparing the grit of the finer sand (nuarl) to a more abrasive and coarser sand (mavin). the mavin will present more detail, just not in a smooth presentation like the nuarl.

both have similar sound quality level, just different presentations, and i happen to enjoy the nuarl more


----------



## Spamateur

05stisilver said:


> I love the Nuarl's high's. I feel they are more resolving, articulate, and textured than the Mavin's. They also dare I say make the Mavin's seem a bit muddy and dark. The Nuarl's also have more of a low end presence as well. It is possible from your previous comments that the high's maybe a bit too much for your liking. Someone also posted a while back about the high's of the Nuarl as well and how they loved them (it may have been actorlife).





chinmie said:


> maybe the way i described it only half way, that people mistook what i rrally meant.
> when i tried them i have a good seal, so no problem with fitting.
> what i described as bright and brittle is only the treble part. in no means that I'm saying the mavin is lacking bass at all. (I'm sorry for not being clear before). it has ample amount of bass and subbass, it's just the treble  when compared to the nuarl is like comparing the grit of the finer sand (nuarl) to a more abrasive and coarser sand (mavin). the mavin will present more detail, just not in a smooth presentation like the nuarl.
> 
> both have similar sound quality level, just different presentations, and i happen to enjoy the nuarl more



You are both terrible influences on my wallet. I just ordered a pair of the Nuarl NT01AX off Amazon. Serendipitously, a friend just sent me an Amazon gift card as a thanks for some work I helped him with, so this was clearly meant to happen. Thanks to you both for your impressions. You really piqued my curiosity about the Nuarls.


----------



## howdy

Just listened to my CIEMs that i have been neglecting for quite some time due to School and the new love of wireless. Im really torn between the Klipsch coming out soon and Sony, possibly the Hifiman still.  Still leaning towards the Sony's as i liked the 1st iteration but sold solely due to the low volume. I have been assured the the new XM3 is plenty loud.


----------



## Firevortex (Aug 2, 2019)

oh boy....just got my WF-1000XM3 they blow the jabras out of the water.

i just played around with all the tips and i would highly recommend people to use the Spiral dot tips. they fit the Sony perfectly with a tight grip. there is a good improvement upon the soundstage, clarity and balance compared to the factory tips.

i find the factory foam tip to have a U shape tuning with the bass deeper but muffled out with less dynamic. i can clearly hear the reverb from the bass on the Spiral dot while its more of a deeper rumble on the foam tips. the treble is much more harsh on the foam too, the Spiral dot has a more natural sparkle up top. With the rubber tip i find there is a restriction on soundstage, everything sounded narrow tube like compared to the Spiral dot. also the fit of the rubber tips seems to push the buds out a bit more so it sticks out further from your ear.  extra $5-10 for the spiral dot is a no brainer.


----------



## Arthur Li

I previously owned the awful first-gen WF-1000X and currently use WH-1000XM3 as my daily driver. Yesterday I demoed the WF-1000XM3 at store with my HTC10 as source (AAC codec was used). Only tried it with Apple Music and Youtube......it doesn't support anything beyond AAC anyway. 

Stock silicon tips just slipped into my ear-canals and instantly created a great seal. This combined with ANC gave solid noise reduction - much superior to the first-generation in this regard. I would rate the ANC capability of WF-1000XM3 as about half as good as WH-1000XM3.

I then asked the salesperson to turn down the BT speakers nearby in order to check for ANC hiss. The first-gen WF-1000X produced tons of hiss when ANC was on. The new generation still produce audible ANC hiss but the hiss is very faint. Again, huge improvement over previous generation. I would also like to mention that WH-1000XM3 doesn't put out any audible hiss.

SQ wise, to my surprise I prefer WF-1000XM3 over its full-sized big brother. Both models have the modern Sony tuning - boomy loose bass, uneven mid-range & treble. However, WF-1000XM3 has: 1.)noticeably less mid-bass bloom; 2.) less sucked-out lower mids; 3.) more forward vocal-range; 4.) more present, yet smoother treble than WH-1000XM3, resulting in better overall tonal balance. When listened to female vocal centric J-pop such as Aimer, the WF model such present the music with more body and drive than the WH model. When listening to hardcore rock such as Ling Tosite Sigure, bass-line isn't as overwhelming with the WF model compared to the WH model. With jazz such as Herbie Hancock, the brighter treble of WF gave more air than the duller WH.

Will pick up a pair for sure.


----------



## FYLegend

Someone on YT comments of a video just suggested this one, Chisana C1 TWS. Has a Qualcomm chip but not AptX. Shells appear similar to Astrotec S60 but this uses dynamic drivers. Case supports Qi charging and can be used as a 2200mAh power bank, but uses microUSB to charge...

https://chisanaaudio.com/products/c...h-power-bank-and-qi-wireless-charging-feature


----------



## Firevortex

Arthur Li said:


> I then asked the salesperson to turn down the BT speakers nearby in order to check for ANC hiss. The first-gen WF-1000X produced tons of hiss when ANC was on. The new generation still produce audible ANC hiss but the hiss is very faint. Again, huge improvement over previous generation. I would also like to mention that WH-1000XM3 doesn't put out any audible hiss.



i didn't notice any audible hiss on mine with ANC on? tested in my bedroom which was quiet and also the kitchen with the fridge running next to me. ANC was able to block out all of the fridge running noise. then i had the Air fryer running next to me (which is pretty loud) and it didn't block out 100% but i'd say about 80% was blocked off. 
with any sort of music playing you'll be able to block out airplane, bus noise easily imo. very impressed with ANC on this.


----------



## BobJS

hifi80sman said:


> I got a 90 day ban from Best Buy once, but then I just started paying cash and returning at different Best Buy locations, as to not be "made".  They never once asked for ID.
> 
> I buy so much stuff on Amazon that a few returns here and there never affect me.  I did receive a "we're concerned" email once, but that was early on in this hobby and I literally returned like 12 pairs of headphones, in like, 12 days.



Ha!  Wow, 12 in 12 days?!  I've returned stuff but not like that.  I'M a bit concerned.

It's a sad day when you need Amazon more than they need you, but I think we're all there.


----------



## BobJS

Arthur Li said:


> I previously owned the awful first-gen WF-1000X and currently use WH-1000XM3 as my daily driver. Yesterday I demoed the WF-1000XM3 at store with my HTC10 as source (AAC codec was used). Only tried it with Apple Music and Youtube......it doesn't support anything beyond AAC anyway.
> 
> Stock silicon tips just slipped into my ear-canals and instantly created a great seal. This combined with ANC gave solid noise reduction - much superior to the first-generation in this regard. I would rate the ANC capability of WF-1000XM3 as about half as good as WH-1000XM3.
> 
> ...




Damn you! (He says, looking at his wallet ...)


----------



## snip3r77

BobJS said:


> Ha!  Wow, 12 in 12 days?!  I've returned stuff but not like that.  I'M a bit concerned.
> 
> It's a sad day when you need Amazon more than they need you, but I think we're all there.


I think it’s a bit too much


----------



## Bartig

The generic T50 TWS isn't as beautiful in real life as it is in pictures. Mid bass bleed/ lower mid fest. And 'interesting' controls: one tap increases or decreases the volume, press twice to pause...


----------



## snip3r77

Bartig said:


> The generic T50 TWS isn't as beautiful in real life as it is in pictures. Mid bass bleed/ lower mid fest. And 'interesting' controls: one tap increases or decreases the volume, press twice to pause...



How far of is qt2 compared to your TWE?


----------



## BigZ12 (Aug 2, 2019)

d3myz said:


> These look nice, but as mentioned the price is a little steep. The specs are exactly on par with the MPOW T5, but I don't believe the T5 uses a graphene driver. I'd really like to get my hands on some at a lower price.


The Tevi has 10h battery life (60% volume with SBC), and as I posted before, Marco at Lypertek said the following about the similarities with the T5: "Of course not the re-brand for MPOW models. We made the own tooling and tunes the sound by ourselves to meet our requirements.  If you have the MPOW model, you can compare the sound by yourself. Then you will know. You can see the upper cover  of TEVI is unique from the market."


----------



## rhsauer

I’ve been rocking the Sony WF-1000XM3s since Wednesday and they are the best TWEs I’ve used.  The sound is amazing across the spectrum.  Warm and enjoyable Sony house sound with very few sacrifices.  With the right tips (I’m using the large Bliss tips from T-Moda), the isolation is great and the ANC actually works.  (No, it’s not at W*H*-1000XM3 levels, but for walking around the city, or a subway commute, it makes a really nice difference.  I would still take my W*H*s for a long plane trip just to be safe.). They’re comfortable.  The microphones seems great — I haven’t made many calls, but I recorded a voice memo while walking down a load street and the background noise was barely noticeable in the recording.  These tick all my boxes.  Just wish they had a decent IP rating — but I did something I never do and paid for the Best Buy protection program so I didn’t have to worry about a stray raindrop.

The only thing I don’t like about these earphones is that they will make it very difficult to justify feeding my earphone habit, going forward.


----------



## Spamateur

Firevortex said:


> i didn't notice any audible hiss on mine with ANC on? tested in my bedroom which was quiet and also the kitchen with the fridge running next to me. ANC was able to block out all of the fridge running noise. then i had the Air fryer running next to me (which is pretty loud) and it didn't block out 100% but i'd say about 80% was blocked off.
> with any sort of music playing you'll be able to block out airplane, bus noise easily imo. very impressed with ANC on this.



I hear pretty obvious hiss with mine, but I assumed that was the ANC as I can hear hiss in every ANC headphone I've ever listened to. FWIW the XM3 has the loudest noise floor of any TW IEM I've heard thus far, but again I think that's the ANC.


----------



## Heisenberg1895

So. Decided to splurge on a premium set.  
It's between the incoming sony 
*WF-1000XM3*
*Or seinheisser MTW.*
*I know the seinheisser are quite a bit more expensive but they are really close atm on Amazon UK due to a current deal.*

*So. What u guys think? *
*I'm also open to other suggestions if u think there's anything better out there.*
*Thanks *


----------



## Bartig

snip3r77 said:


> How far of is qt2 compared to your TWE?


The QT2 has some stiff competition from my favorite sounding wireless earphones, such as the Mpow T5, Tranya T3 and Tranya T1-Pro. I think the Mpow, for example, sounds more concentrated and offers more balance in the different frequencies - it sounds less congested than the QT2 sometimes can.

By the way - here's my review on the generic 15 dollar XG-13 TWS.


----------



## joshnor713

Heisenberg1895 said:


> So. Decided to splurge on a premium set.
> It's between the incoming sony
> *WF-1000XM3
> Or seinheisser MTW.
> ...



Firstly, calm down 

From what it sounds like, they're close in SQ, but the Senn's have better soundstage. I can attest to this. To me, I immediately noticed the soundstage outshone its true wireless form.

Don't have the XM3 yet to compare (waiting for it to come). From what I hear, the Sony's tuning has better balance. What I hate about the Senn is the bass is too prominent. It overwhelms the bottom end. The XM3 is also said to have top-end sparkle. The Senn's kinda drop-off at the top-end (at least to my ears - maybe cuz my ref is the excellent top-end of the IE800S). I'll comment on this when I get the XM3 in. Pre-orders slowly trickling in.

All-in-all, I'm strongly betting that the XM3 will be the better value. Especially considering the ANC. The Senn's are average at best when it comes to noise isolation.


----------



## nc8000

Spamateur said:


> I hear pretty obvious hiss with mine, but I assumed that was the ANC as I can hear hiss in every ANC headphone I've ever listened to. FWIW the XM3 has the loudest noise floor of any TW IEM I've heard thus far, but again I think that's the ANC.



There will always be hiss/white noise with anc active


----------



## actorlife

BigZ12 said:


> The Tevi has 10h battery life (60% volume with SBC), and as I posted before, Marco at Lypertek said the following about the similarities with the T5: "Of course not the re-brand for MPOW models. We made the own tooling and tunes the sound by ourselves to meet our requirements.  If you have the MPOW model, you can compare the sound by yourself. Then you will know. You can see the upper cover  of TEVI is unique from the market."


I wonder if these will be on ebay or amazon? I don't want to deal with Ali. Think these will satisfy my needs for a good while if the treble is sparkly and soundstage is good as you said. Anyone else get these Tevi?


----------



## Spamateur

joshnor713 said:


> Firstly, calm down
> 
> From what it sounds like, they're close in SQ, but the Senn's have better soundstage. I can attest to this. To me, I immediately noticed the soundstage outshone its true wireless form.
> 
> ...



Having tried both, the XM3 is definitely the better value. Cheaper, better feature set, better battery life. I preferred the sound quality of the Sennheiser, but the bugs and defective case design (slight movement detached the earbuds from the charging contacts) were a dealbreaker. The only thing I can think that the Sennheisers besides sound quality (and we all know that's subjective) did better was codec support and better touch control design.

FWIW, I don't have the Senns anymore, but based on memory I think the Sony is bassier. I don't know if it's that phat bass or the ANC, but they give me a weird tension headache after listening for more than a few minutes. I think I'm going to return them for this reason.


----------



## d3myz

BigZ12 said:


> The Tevi has 10h battery life (60% volume with SBC), and as I posted before, Marco at Lypertek said the following about the similarities with the T5: "Of course not the re-brand for MPOW models. We made the own tooling and tunes the sound by ourselves to meet our requirements.  If you have the MPOW model, you can compare the sound by yourself. Then you will know. You can see the upper cover  of TEVI is unique from the market."



Unfortunately, I can buy two pair of t5's for the cost of one Tevi. So if they ever go on sale I may give them a shot.


----------



## actorlife

Another UFO 37.00: https://www.amazon.com/Lermom-Bluet...aa3-f83976b6a214&pf_rd_r=GCQMGWG5F0XB19P1MF9M


----------



## joshnor713

Spamateur said:


> I don't know if it's that phat bass or the ANC, but they give me a weird tension headache after listening for more than a few minutes. I think I'm going to return them for this reason.



Oh no, this worries me. I'm sensitive to that. I heard this from another member too. Guess I'll check on the return policy of my retailer (pre-ordered through Focus Camera). Discouraged now


----------



## actorlife

d3myz said:


> Unfortunately, I can buy two pair of t5's for the cost of one Tevi. So if they ever go on sale I may give them a shot.


I'm waiting myself. I hope they are more widely available. I want the T5 myself. BUDGET.


----------



## Spamateur

joshnor713 said:


> Oh no, this worries me. I'm sensitive to that. I heard this from another member too. Guess I'll check on the return policy of my retailer (pre-ordered through Focus Camera). Discouraged now



I wouldn't worry about it too much. It could also be the fit (fairly deep-insertion compared to most TW models) but I haven't seen many other complaints. FWIW I also find I can't use my wife's Bose QC35 II with ANC at all because it immediately pressurizes my ears to an uncomfortable degree. I feel a bit of pressure with the XM3s, but it's more than tolerable at first. It's longer term listening where I seem to get fatigued.


----------



## clerkpalmer

Spamateur said:


> I wouldn't worry about it too much. It could also be the fit (fairly deep-insertion compared to most TW models) but I haven't seen many other complaints. FWIW I also find I can't use my wife's Bose QC35 II with ANC at all because it immediately pressurizes my ears to an uncomfortable degree. I feel a bit of pressure with the XM3s, but it's more than tolerable at first. It's longer term listening where I seem to get fatigued.


I experienced this and am sensitive to it as well.  It bothered me more sitting down at my desk but when I moved around at the gym, I didn't get the effect as much.


----------



## joshnor713

What about with ANC off? And on the subject, how's the SQ compared to it on? Is it significant? I don't care if it reduces bass a tad.


----------



## Heisenberg1895 (Aug 2, 2019)

joshnor713 said:


> Firstly, calm down
> 
> .


Sorry, I pasted the Sony details and it changed the font.

Hmm. Gotta admit I was leaning towards the Sonys. Now to convince myself to get the in ears as opposed to the over ear version...

I should point out that my current earphones are Shure E425s and Beyerdynamic Dt990 Pro 250Ohm


----------



## nc8000

Heisenberg1895 said:


> Sorry, I pasted the Sony details and it changed the font.
> 
> Hmm. Gotta admit I was leaning towards the Sonys. Now to convince myself to get the in ears as opposed to the over ear version...



The over ear has the better ANC, better codec support, much longer battery and can be used wired in a pinch but the in ear is much more portable and cheaper


----------



## Heisenberg1895

nc8000 said:


> but the in ear is much more portable and cheaper



Only by about 40 GBP atm on Amazon uk


----------



## nc8000

Heisenberg1895 said:


> Only by about 40 GBP atm on Amazon uk



Still cheaper but you can’t get it yet


----------



## Heisenberg1895

nc8000 said:


> Still cheaper but you can’t get it yet


Ya, still a week or so until release


----------



## audiophileriser

voicemaster said:


> anyone tried sabbat E12?


yup.  I liked everything except the sound.  The treble is too muffled and rolled off, the mids are not clear enough, and the bass is muddy in my opinion.  I just feel like there is not enough clarity.  I prefer the sound of the jlab jbuds air, but even those aren't that great compared to my triple driver wired in ears.  I would not recommend them if you are an audiophile.


----------



## audiophileriser

smaragd said:


> Agree that the E12 needs some EQ to remove some of the bass bloat and add a bit more sparkle in the high end frequencies


I agree too.  Thats the only reason I hate my sabbat e12s.  If they had more clarity, I would love them. I prefer the sound of the jlab jbuds air over the sabbat e12.


----------



## nc8000

How many here intend to use tws for critical listening in quiet surroundings ?

For me tws are for commuting, jogging, gym and so on and in those environments I find that outright sq is much less important than the feature set of the tws.


----------



## audiophileriser

hifi80sman said:


> The MTW are good for music and should be getting a firmware update to improve call quality (and case drain issue).  If the update is what it's cracked up to be, it may be a compelling option.  Presently, however, I would fully recommend the 65t, especially if the calls are business related.


That Is what is stopping me from buying the sennheiser momentum true wireless.  The battery life is too low.  They need to release a second gen with more features and battery life.


----------



## Slater

nc8000 said:


> How many here intend to use tws for critical listening in quiet surroundings ?
> 
> For me tws are for commuting, jogging, gym and so on and in those environments I find that outright sq is much less important than the feature set of the tws.



Totally agree.


----------



## actorlife (Aug 2, 2019)

nc8000 said:


> How many here intend to use tws for critical listening in quiet surroundings ?
> 
> For me tws are for commuting, jogging, gym and so on and in those environments I find that outright sq is much less important than the feature set of the tws.



For me I use it for music and movies, so better have good SQ. I use mine mostly at home or bike rides. Even if I used it all around I'd still like to hear that sparkle and tight bass. Why pay for something *just ok* when so many choices with good SQ and chi-fi fills those areas. Sure better quality with wired, but this is a convenience. ✌️


----------



## SuperLuigi

nc8000 said:


> How many here intend to use tws for critical listening in quiet surroundings ?
> 
> For me tws are for commuting, jogging, gym and so on and in those environments I find that outright sq is much less important than the feature set of the tws.



I couldn't agree more.  TWS are about convenience first for me.  Gym, comutting, walking, errands, TWS work great.  But when it's movie time, or listening to music in a quiet environment, I have much better options than any TWS.

I'd love to find a pair of budget TWS that does ambient noise as well.  Makes running errands and comutting so much safer.


----------



## FYLegend

How does YTOM T1/Wavefun 3 compare to Lypertek Tevi?


----------



## hifi80sman (Aug 2, 2019)

nc8000 said:


> How many here intend to use tws for critical listening in quiet surroundings ?
> 
> For me tws are for commuting, jogging, gym and so on and in those environments I find that outright sq is much less important than the feature set of the tws.


Legit "critical listening", no, but I do find myself reaching for one of my TWS' for general recreational listening around the house.  Being free of the wires is great, and when it's hot, they're more comfortable than admittedly better sounding wireless over-ears.  I can get to an enjoyable baseline with my TWS', so anything beyond that is extra cheese for me.

I still have a lot of wired stuff I like, but hey, I go through phases.


----------



## clerkpalmer

Agree with others re noise floor and hiss on the Sony’s. It’s not bad and typical for ANC. Question, how do you turn ANC off in the app? Thanks.


----------



## jasonb

nc8000 said:


> How many here intend to use tws for critical listening in quiet surroundings ?
> 
> For me tws are for commuting, jogging, gym and so on and in those environments I find that outright sq is much less important than the feature set of the tws.



Agreed, my HD650 sounds better but sometimes I still use my Galaxy Buds around the house just because they are convenient.


----------



## hifi80sman

jasonb said:


> Agreed, my HD650 sounds better but sometimes I still use my Galaxy Buds around the house just because they are convenient.


I find comfort and convenience, for me, is 50% of the equation.  Mind you, there is a minimum SQ that rises to the level of enjoyable, so that's the other part.

That being said, it also depends on your environment.  If you have a place to chill out with minimal noise and interruption, then you may not mind the wires.  In my case, I'm always getting up and moving around, mostly because I need to help with this or that (office and at home), so being untethered whilst enjoying solid SQ from a TWS is satisfying.


----------



## clerkpalmer

More time with Sony’s. They are going back. Sound is fine. Maybe even good but definitely not great. Bass is flabby among other things and that’s on flat eq. It’s a decent product but it’s only an incremental improvement to the sp-700n. I had higher hopes in terms of sound. If they had an ip rating, I might keep them. I do like the ANC but without sweat proofing their use is limited to me. I would never use them for critical listening. I don’t commute and I don’t travel so those uses cases are out for me. The power beats beat them in every category except isolation and ANC. If you don’t care about sweatproofing I would recommend them over the Jabra. I would probably recommend over the senns as well.


----------



## jasonb

hifi80sman said:


> I find comfort and convenience, for me, is 50% of the equation.  Mind you, there is a minimum SQ that rises to the level of enjoyable, so that's the other part.
> 
> That being said, it also depends on your environment.  If you have a place to chill out with minimal noise and interruption, then you may not mind the wires.  In my case, I'm always getting up and moving around, mostly because I need to help with this or that (office and at home), so being untethered whilst enjoying solid SQ from a TWS is satisfying.



The Galaxy Buds are pretty close to the Harman IE target, and I EQ my HD650 and my Sony WH-1000XM2 to the Harman OE target, so all 3 sound pretty close in terms of frequency response. I usually won't use my HD650 unless the wife is asleep and the 1 and a half year old puppy is asleep as well. Otherwise I use the Galaxy Buds or the Sony WH-1000XM2 because they both block more noise, and no wires for the puppy to get tangled in if he decides to jump on me or wants my attention.


----------



## hifi80sman

clerkpalmer said:


> More time with Sony’s. They are going back. Sound is fine. Maybe even good but definitely not great. Bass is flabby among other things and that’s on flat eq. It’s a decent product but it’s only an incremental improvement to the sp-700n. I had higher hopes in terms of sound. If they had an ip rating, I might keep them. I do like the ANC but without sweat proofing their use is limited to me. I would never use them for critical listening. I don’t commute and I don’t travel so those uses cases are out for me. The power beats beat them in every category except isolation and ANC. If you don’t care about sweatproofing I would recommend them over the Jabra. I would probably recommend over the senns as well.


You do realize now you're now making me take a serious look at the PB Pro2, right?  I feel like a borderline alcoholic.


----------



## FYLegend

A good video explaining in detail why some TWS with Type C ports can't charge Type C to C, and how to solve the problem. You need to solder two pulldown resistors to the channel connection pins. BTW the ESR looks like another product that uses the same shell and case design as Astrotec S60.


----------



## hifi80sman

jasonb said:


> The Galaxy Buds are pretty close to the Harman IE target, and I EQ my HD650 and my Sony WH-1000XM2 to the Harman OE target, so all 3 sound pretty close in terms of frequency response. I usually won't use my HD650 unless the wife is asleep and the 1 and a half year old puppy is asleep as well. Otherwise I use the Galaxy Buds or the Sony WH-1000XM2 because they both block more noise, and no wires for the puppy to get tangled in if he decides to jump on me or wants my attention.


Perfect, real-life description.  

I enjoyed the Galaxy Buds, but unfortunately, one side began to incrementally become softer over time.  I had no choice but to return before the window closed.  I'm glad, however, you haven't had those issues.


----------



## hifi80sman

FYLegend said:


> A good video explaining in detail why some TWS with Type C ports can't charge Type C to C, and how to solve the problem. You need to solder two pulldown resistors to the channel connection pins. BTW the ESR looks like another product that uses the same shell and case design as Astrotec S60.



Sounds like something to send to @Slater for upgrade.


----------



## d3myz

FYLegend said:


> A good video explaining in detail why some TWS with Type C ports can't charge Type C to C, and how to solve the problem. You need to solder two pulldown resistors to the channel connection pins. BTW the ESR looks like another product that uses the same shell and case design as Astrotec S60.



Strong Work, Sir! Thank you for the Vid!


----------



## Firevortex (Aug 2, 2019)

Spamateur said:


> I hear pretty obvious hiss with mine, but I assumed that was the ANC as I can hear hiss in every ANC headphone I've ever listened to. FWIW the XM3 has the loudest noise floor of any TW IEM I've heard thus far, but again I think that's the ANC.



could be that i have old ears now with slight tinnitus due to my newborn screaming all day lol. i do hear a hiss on my bose qc20 but not on the XM3s.

anyway i do hope people who buy ear buds do tip roll. the stock tips are just not on par. its like pairing an amp difference with those.



clerkpalmer said:


> Agree with others re noise floor and hiss on the Sony’s. It’s not bad and typical for ANC. Question, how do you turn ANC off in the app? Thanks.



Ambient Sound Control. also you can double tap your left ear buds.


----------



## clerkpalmer (Aug 2, 2019)

hifi80sman said:


> You do realize now you're now making me take a serious look at the PB Pro2, right?  I feel like a borderline alcoholic.


I don’t know why they don’t get more love. Probably because they are pricey and maybe not available yet? And this has become the Chifi thread. They are excellent. Seriously. If you are on iOS they are a no brainer.


----------



## chinmie

audiophileriser said:


> yup.  I liked everything except the sound.  The treble is too muffled and rolled off, the mids are not clear enough, and the bass is muddy in my opinion.  I just feel like there is not enough clarity.  I prefer the sound of the jlab jbuds air, but even those aren't that great compared to my triple driver wired in ears.  I would not recommend them if you are an audiophile.



agreed. if only they stick the X12 sound (with added bass and isolation), the E12 would have been perfect. 
then again, I'm glad I found that in the Nillkin



nc8000 said:


> How many here intend to use tws for critical listening in quiet surroundings ?
> 
> For me tws are for commuting, jogging, gym and so on and in those environments I find that outright sq is much less important than the feature set of the tws.



i do use them for critical listening, especially when i listen to music on the bed before sleeping. i think once i familiarize to their sound enough, they are usable for critical listening. 

i taught myself that once i can familiarize myself, any properly working earphones /headphones /speakers (that is no imbalance, low enough noise level, no phasing issues, etc) can be used for mixing. 

i recently went on vacation and brought some wired iems along with my TWSs, i ended up using the TWS instead in the hotel room because i think they're good enough. 

my wired gears might give more controls over the sound, but nowadays i rather trade that versatility for the comfort TWS provide. I would even think that the wired are not necessarily better sounding, just different experiences and different signatures. i dare argue that today TWS can compete in SQ to the wired ones in their respective price bracket. 

so things like the BT20S are a happy medium. i can have something that i already familiar with and just slap it on the BT20S, and gain comfort and mobility.. i just have to choose iems that would have the less noise to pair with

but after all my ramblings, i very much agree with you: if i have to choose, i rather loose some points in sound but gain a lot in features and comfort in TWS


----------



## llmgtab

Looking to see if anyone here would have any advise for me. I have been using my Earin M2's for 10 months and really enjoy them. I have been following this thread ever since following the evolution of the truly wireless space. Thanks for all the great information all of you provide!

I am looking for an upgrade as the battery life is just not cutting it anymore. I get 3 hours out of them, so can't even make it to lunch at work. So many new ones out there with 6+ hours I really would love that! But what is holding me back is I really love the ambient feature of the M2's. I have it set so its off when music is playing and on when not. This is great for work as I never have to take them out! Another plus is the size, I have small ears and have had issues with fit - the first ones I tried where the Jabra 65t which hurt after 15 minutes. I can wear the M2's all day.

I received the new Sony 1000XM3 this week, but have decided to return them. I finally got a good seal with some foam tips and they sounded great. But the noise canceling did not do much for me, and even though they were quite comfortable, the size is a bit big for me and feel like they will fall out at any time. The case design is a bit weird too. No way to put the buds in with one hand with that rounded bottom! 

I did get the Tranya T1 pro and its great for a backup, but really missing that ambient feature. I am considering trying the Galaxy buds - think the only other option for ambient + longer battery is to wait to see what else comes up this year. Thought I would put this out there in case I was missing any other options. Price is really no issue, but if I spend 200+ I want something that is a bit closer to a good fit for me.


----------



## AnakChan

nc8000 said:


> How many here intend to use tws for critical listening in quiet surroundings ?
> 
> For me tws are for commuting, jogging, gym and so on and in those environments I find that outright sq is much less important than the feature set of the tws.


There’s likely more than two scenarios where folks listen.

To name a few examples for my personal scenarios:-

In the gym, I don’t really care and convince is top priority. The music is way in the background for my mind to focus on what I’m doing. Similarly when walking or commuting, the earpieces is just for isolation & background distraction. Jabra 65t’s suffice such scenarios. Focusing on the environment is more important to me - there had been times where I was almost knocked down by cars cos I wasn’t paying attention. With cycling I don’t use earphones at all.

Another scenario is when I’m out at a cafe. I’d like the convenience of wireless as I am out of the home but I’m also mostly stationary in the cafe reading my iPad or a magazine, SQ is more important to me in such situations but not exactly critical listening - the Fostex TM2 with either its standard earphones or with my FitEar Titans would match such scenarios. Another similar scenario which I used the TM2 recently is on a long overhaul flight. Cables would have been cumbersome in such scenarios.

Then there’s the home scenario where I’m sitting in my chair doing literally -nothing- but closing my eyes and relaxing. Here is when I do critical listening (yes I know it’s counterintuitive doing “critical” listening whilst “relaxing”), but here I do wired.


----------



## joshnor713

I can't listen to a headphone and not think about the sound. I just can't.


----------



## clerkpalmer

Looks like the fostex is finally available. Any reviews with the stock iems?


----------



## TK33

audiophileriser said:


> That Is what is stopping me from buying the sennheiser momentum true wireless.  The battery life is too low.  They need to release a second gen with more features and battery life.



Have been following this thread for the last week or so and finally gave in (thanks guys and gals..I think) and picked up a pair of the MTWs at BB on my way home today.  I've been using a pair of SE425s with the Mee Audio BTX1 cable and couldn't take the dropouts anymore (now I just use them in the office) so I was back to my Shure SE535 wired IEMs.  However the more I read this thread, the more I miss having (somewhat) wireless IEMs.  Just can't beat wireless for the daily 1 1/2 hour commute. My first pair of TWS and so far I'm impressed witht the sound (did not have high expectations). I did find the bass a bit bloated for my taste but sounds much better after some EQing. Cant wait to test out the connectivity during my commute next week


----------



## FYLegend

llmgtab said:


> I did get the Tranya T1 pro and its great for a backup, but really missing that ambient feature. I am considering trying the Galaxy buds - think the only other option for ambient + longer battery is to wait to see what else comes up this year. Thought I would put this out there in case I was missing any other options. Price is really no issue, but if I spend 200+ I want something that is a bit closer to a good fit for me.


Jabees Firefly and Firefly Pro seem promising as budget options for ambient sound - ine should be arriving next week. I did briefly listen to Firefly while at a store in Taiwan. I think it only had SBC or otherwise didn't sound very impressive, but part of this was because I was floored by the Astrotec S60's sound. I can't recall much about the ambient sound's quality though. I've been told the Firefly Pro has a number of improvements but the sound is mostly the same as the original, but you also get a Qi charging case.

Mifo O4 is another option which will have ambient sound as well as Type C and wireless charging.

I find Jabra 65t's ambient sound to work well but it has a tendency to cut or disconnect 20 seconds or so as if it is difficult to keep a constant mic feed. The ambient output is also rather tinny, compared to my MDR-1000X which has a much darker and realistic ambient sound.


----------



## actorlife

First impressions of the KZ T1 These will be mine rahaha:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-3087#post-15098823


----------



## AnakChan (Aug 2, 2019)

supertx2 said:


> When does that review comes out?
> I'm so tempted to buy one of these but I cant find a good review anywhere
> 
> 
> ...



Sorry for the lateness. I’ve had them for about 5 weeks. I’m just finalizing the review at the moment. Meanwhile a few preview pix :-

  
 
The stock driver to me is more neutral sounding than my Jabra 65t (which to me has somewhat of a darker signature with a slight treble roll off), and has fuller mids than the Senn MTWs. I did not get a chance to compare against the MW07 which was a pity. However the fact that I can couple any other IEM of my choice with the TM2 to me is a plus - such as pairing it with my FitEar Titans as seen above.

There’s been numerous other brands and models mentioned here in this thread that I’ve not even heard of, let alone listen to. So can’t comment on those other alternatives.



chinmie said:


> edited- it turns out i already asked the same question


Yep, I don’t have the TRN BT20/S


----------



## clerkpalmer

actorlife said:


> First impressions of the KZ T1 These will be mine rahaha:
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-3087#post-15098823


Oh boy. Giddy with anticipation.


----------



## nc8000




----------



## hifi80sman

clerkpalmer said:


> I don’t know why they don’t get more love. Probably because they are pricey and maybe not available yet? And this has become the Chifi thread. They are excellent. Seriously. If you are on iOS they are a no brainer.


I’ve seen them in stock at Target and WalMart.  Seems they aren’t in extreme demand, because I see the same few sitting there every time I’m in there.  I think you’re right about the price.  They aren’t the only game in town anymore for the typical browsing, non-audiophile consumer, so they need more aggressive pricing.


----------



## z1mb1o (Aug 3, 2019)

These Lenovo HT10s seem interesting:
https://gearvita.com/lenovo-ht10-tws-earphone.html
Aptx HD and 8 hour battery sounds good.
edit. Ordered these just now, will do a short review when they get here.


----------



## blomman77

Did you use the discount code?
 I saved 20 usd with *LHT10AU


z1mb1o said:



			These Lenovo HT10s seem interesting:
https://gearvita.com/lenovo-ht10-tws-earphone.html
Aptx HD and 8 hour battery sounds good.
edit. Ordered these just now, will do a short review when they get here.
		
Click to expand...

*


----------



## z1mb1o

blomman77 said:


> Did you use the discount code?
> I saved 20 usd with *LHT10AU
> *


No, I didnt. Didn't know there was a discount code available. Do you think I can cancel and redo the the order with the code?


----------



## blomman77

Either that,or try contacting them and ask them if they can


z1mb1o said:


> No, I didnt. Didn't know there was a discount code available. Do you think I can cancel and redo the the order with the code?



adjust the price


----------



## llmgtab

FYLegend said:


> Jabees Firefly and Firefly Pro seem promising as budget options for ambient sound - ine should be arriving next week. I did briefly listen to Firefly while at a store in Taiwan. I think it only had SBC or otherwise didn't sound very impressive, but part of this was because I was floored by the Astrotec S60's sound. I can't recall much about the ambient sound's quality though. I've been told the Firefly Pro has a number of improvements but the sound is mostly the same as the original, but you also get a Qi charging case.
> 
> Mifo O4 is another option which will have ambient sound as well as Type C and wireless charging.


Thanks for the response. The Mifo O4 is not out yet right? I think I'll hold off a bit before ordering anything else.


----------



## gibletzor

FYLegend said:


> Jabees Firefly and Firefly Pro seem promising as budget options for ambient sound - ine should be arriving next week. I did briefly listen to Firefly while at a store in Taiwan. I think it only had SBC or otherwise didn't sound very impressive, but part of this was because I was floored by the Astrotec S60's sound. I can't recall much about the ambient sound's quality though. I've been told the Firefly Pro has a number of improvements but the sound is mostly the same as the original, but you also get a Qi charging case.



I would be very interested to hear how you like the Firefly Pros.  I looked at them a while back but couldn't find any decent reviews anywhere.


----------



## chinmie

z1mb1o said:


> These Lenovo HT10s seem interesting:
> https://gearvita.com/lenovo-ht10-tws-earphone.html
> Aptx HD and 8 hour battery sounds good.
> edit. Ordered these just now, will do a short review when they get here.



according to this website https://www.priceboon.com/product/lenovo-ht10/ this only allowed pause and play, no track skip and volume control..


----------



## james444

AnakChan said:


> Sorry for the lateness. I’ve had them for about 5 weeks. I’m just finalizing the review at the moment. Meanwhile a few preview pix :-
> 
> 
> The stock driver to me is more neutral sounding than my Jabra 65t (which to me has somewhat of a darker signature with a slight treble roll off), and has fuller mids than the Senn MTWs. I did not get a chance to compare against the MW07 which was a pity. However the fact that I can couple any other IEM of my choice with the TM2 to me is a plus - such as pairing it with my FitEar Titans as seen above.
> ...



Looking forward to your thoughts. The TM2's stock driver was a pleasant surprise for me. I planned to use these with other IEMs, but keep sticking to the stock driver so far. It's that good.

On the other hand, ergonomics are a bit of a mixed bag imo. The dirt-cheap TRN BT20's ergonomics beat these in some way.


----------



## clerkpalmer

hifi80sman said:


> I’ve seen them in stock at Target and WalMart.  Seems they aren’t in extreme demand, because I see the same few sitting there every time I’m in there.  I think you’re right about the price.  They aren’t the only game in town anymore for the typical browsing, non-audiophile consumer, so they need more aggressive pricing.


They are surprisingly clean sounding. Almost like Bose SSF but better isolation.


----------



## blomman77

That sounds a little strange that you can only do one operation, because you can take both calls and start Siri too


chinmie said:


> according to this website https://www.priceboon.com/product/lenovo-ht10/ this only allowed pause and play, no track skip and volume control..



.  Well time will tell. I'll get my set hopefully next week


----------



## clerkpalmer (Aug 3, 2019)

james444 said:


> Looking forward to your thoughts. The TM2's stock driver was a pleasant surprise for me. I planned to use these with other IEMs, but keep sticking to the stock driver so far. It's that good.
> 
> On the other hand, ergonomics are a bit of a mixed bag imo. The dirt-cheap TRN BT20's ergonomics beat these in some way.



If you own both bt20 and fostex, please comment on whether fostex is worth the 10x price increase accounting for the iems as well of course. Thanks.


----------



## james444

clerkpalmer said:


> If you own both bt20 and fostex, please comment on whether fostex is worth the 10x price increase accounting for the iems as well of course. Thanks.



I haven't made up my mind yet, except that the TM2 stock driver is brilliant in my book, and ergonomics (particularly the touchpad) not so much.

The BT20 is a little inferior to the TM2 in sound quality and connection stability, but not by much. I also have a BT20S incoming for a three-way comparison.


----------



## howdy

nc8000 said:


>


I hope I find my M2s. I'm pissed that I misplaced them ( I'm not goona say lost until I have given up looking for them.) I hope to find them soon.
Can't wait to hear your comparison of the M2s and XM3.


----------



## chinmie

james444 said:


> I haven't made up my mind yet, except that the TM2 stock driver is brilliant in my book, and ergonomics (particularly the touchpad) not so much.
> 
> The BT20 is a little inferior to the TM2 in sound quality and connection stability, but not by much. I also have a BT20S incoming for a three-way comparison.



can't wait to hear your comparison! the BT20S improve from the BT20 in connection and battery life, but i haven't compare them with the same earphones because my BT20 is 2pin version while my BT20S is MMCX


----------



## Caipirina (Aug 3, 2019)

Just wanted to share that I’m more & more appreciating my Mifo O5 Pro (Ba version)

I was very skeptical in the beginning, having paid ‘so much’ and feeling underwhelmed by the SQ ... but it really needs some time & learning curve to fully enjoy them.

But the kicker today was: performance while flying! For fun I packed a few buds in my carry on to see how well noise isolation can stack up against ANC.
And I think it all comes down to personal fit. But the Mifo fit great and they stayed in my ears all 6h of the flight. So, not only great battery life as advertized, but also very sweet SQ against the plane engine .. did not feel the need to get my Bose ANC over ears out at all ... can also sleep better with TWE in my ears


----------



## jeffri

I think I don't need anything else for true wireless. This is amazing... slight hiss, but otherwise drive my U12 well enough. I don't miss much from Bluetooth receiver like BTR3 or ATH-PHA55BT, even with just aptX, it sounds as good. Apart from the large case that without battery, it's been amazingly convenient.

I'm set for a few years ahead, until true wireless matured enough and maybe finally get higher bitrate codec.

The included IEM is also surprisingly good! I want to utilize it one way or another, but I don't want to take my U12 off from this.


----------



## clerkpalmer

jeffri said:


> I think I don't need anything else for true wireless. This is amazing... slight hiss, but otherwise drive my U12 well enough. I don't miss much from Bluetooth receiver like BTR3 or ATH-PHA55BT, even with just aptX, it sounds as good. Apart from the large case that without battery, it's been amazingly convenient.
> 
> I'm set for a few years ahead, until true wireless matured enough and maybe finally get higher bitrate codec.
> 
> The included IEM is also surprisingly good! I want to utilize it one way or another, but I don't want to take my U12 off from this.


For those of us who don’t have 1500 iems laying around, do the sq with the included iem beat other tw sets you have?


----------



## nc8000

howdy said:


> I hope I find my M2s. I'm pissed that I misplaced them ( I'm not goona say lost until I have given up looking for them.) I hope to find them soon.
> Can't wait to hear your comparison of the M2s and XM3.



In every aspect the XM3 is probably a better product (except the lack of ipx rating) and will be the ones I’ll use in the future but I wish they were the size of the M2 and I like the M2 ambient mode implementation better (off when music plays and on when no music plays)


----------



## jeffri

clerkpalmer said:


> For those of us who don’t have 1500 iems laying around, do the sq with the included iem beat other tw sets you have?



I don't have much tw, the higher end one I have heard is CKR7TW (owned) and Momentum (my friend's). From those, I can clearly says this with included IEM is definitely better.


----------



## clerkpalmer

jeffri said:


> I don't have much tw, the higher end one I have heard is CKR7TW (owned) and Momentum (my friend's). From those, I can clearly says this with included IEM is definitely better.


Thanks. That’s helpful. Struggling with this decision. If I go bt20s, that would leave over 250 for a very nice iem to pair with it.


----------



## clerkpalmer

james444 said:


> I haven't made up my mind yet, except that the TM2 stock driver is brilliant in my book, and ergonomics (particularly the touchpad) not so much.
> 
> The BT20 is a little inferior to the TM2 in sound quality and connection stability, but not by much. I also have a BT20S incoming for a three-way comparison.


James444 if you were faced with 300 to spend, would you go tm2 with included iems or bt20s plus the best iems money can buy for 250? One comment would be I assume the tm2 iem is water resistant whereas most iems may not be so that would be a factor. Thanks!


----------



## jeffri

clerkpalmer said:


> Thanks. That’s helpful. Struggling with this decision. If I go bt20s, that would leave over 250 for a very nice iem to pair with it.



I'll try the included IEM with cable to see how good it is. I think it'll compare quite well to FD01, which I also had and cost $250+.


----------



## clerkpalmer

jeffri said:


> I'll try the included IEM with cable to see how good it is. I think it'll compare quite well to FD01, which I also had and cost $250+.


Thanks. Your dedication is appreciated!


----------



## james444

clerkpalmer said:


> James444 if you were faced with 300 to spend, would you go tm2 with included iems or bt20s plus the best iems money can buy for 250? One comment would be I assume the tm2 iem is water resistant whereas most iems may not be so that would be a factor. Thanks!



I don't have the BT20S yet, so this particular comparison will have to wait.

The included TM2 IEMs compete very well with the best I've heard. I have a selection of 35 test tracks to detect flaws in IEMs. The TM2 score a 32/35 right out of the box and a 35/35 with a minor damping mod, which is excellent.

Whether to go for the TM2 is imho less a question of sound quality than of intended use. For instance, they don't fit as tight and securely around my ears as the BT20, so I'm not sure I'd pick these for intense outdoor activity. For walking and hiking, I find them ok though.

Another aspect is nighttime / in-bed listening. I can comfortably do this with the BT20 and small IEMs, no problem. The TM2 would be low profile enough to be comfy in bed too. However, if you lie on the side with it, the touchpad may press against your ear and engage cue-play, which can be very annoying.

So, what I'm trying to say is, while I don't think you could do much better in terms of sound quality with the BT20S + $250 IEMs, you may probably be able to cover a wider range of use cases than with the TM2.


----------



## WesennTony (Aug 3, 2019)

Received Sony WF-1000xm3 this Wednesday, so I was able to bring them for a business trip together with Nuarl NT01AX. For SQ, while both are neutral and balanced, xm3 have a slight but discernible Sony veil, and Nuarl is very natural. xm3 have a slightly more clarity, probably due to a lower noise floor. But Nuarl have a wider sound stage. I'd also like to add Mavin Air-x into comparison. To my ears, Air-X sound is more clinical, xm3 more veiled, and Nuarl more music and fluid.  An Eq of a slight drop in high on xm3 pushes them more toward Nuarl, and after that I'll rate the SQ to be Nuarl > xm3~Air-X for my taste. Probably not a good analogy, Nuarl are like pure water, air-X like sparkling one, and xm3 with added flavor. I like the sound to be natural and faithful.

Appearance xm3 win. They look premium and professional, a lower profile comparing Nuarl. The charging case look premium as well, though more than double the size as that of Nuarl and air-X. The magnet attachment works very well. I don't know why the case has to be designed to lie down, but not a big deal.

The noise cancelling works well, but during the flight, the overall isolation does not make much difference between xm3 and Nuarl. Surprisingly I only got 3.5 hours when "low battery" warning kicked in. I guess probably because I used ambient mode couple of times at the airport terminal, and also re-connect the BT after turning on the airplane mode. But it's still quite below my expectation of 6hrs.

The connection to my phone (LG V30) is slow but very stable after that, while Nuarl occasionally lose sound on one side with unknown reasons.

With Nuarl and air-X already in hand, I'm not sure if I want to keep xm3. They are definitely not the must, and no IPx rating means that I may always have to bring another set with me. But they look more professional on the street. I'll give them more time.


----------



## crezo

Well I took first dive into wireless the other day and was pretty disappointed. I've got a ton of 3,4 & 5 driver hybrids so was expecting a drop in sound quality with single driver Bluetooth phones as these would be for occasional use only as my new phone doesn't have a 3.5 (seriously WHY all companies do this JUST because apple did it astounds me).

However I at least expected them to actually work

I bought some iTeknics which had prety decent reviews for about £50 and the. Build and fit were great, and the tiny charging case was brilliant as it fits in your jeans jonny pocket, but sadly only the right side worked, and it refused to connect to the left even after trying to reset them. They were otherwise great, but I've just sent them back.

So after a load more research I'm going for some Sabbat e12s which have also had some great reviews, and we'll see how these turn out in the next few days. Sound and connection quality is supposed to be great, and they're one of the few that have USBC and wireless QI for the case which is a huge bonus.

Will add a review if they actually both work and connect


----------



## Firevortex (Aug 3, 2019)

WesennTony said:


> The noise cancelling works well, but during the flight, the overall isolation does not make much difference between xm3 and Nuarl.



can you elaborate on the ANC performance for flights? such as how loud do you need to push the music for you to not hear plane noise? i find that ambient mode to drain the battery faster than any other modes.

ps. what ear tips you using?


----------



## chinmie

jeffri said:


> I think I don't need anything else for true wireless. This is amazing... slight hiss, but otherwise drive my U12 well enough. I don't miss much from Bluetooth receiver like BTR3 or ATH-PHA55BT, even with just aptX, it sounds as good. Apart from the large case that without battery, it's been amazingly convenient.
> 
> I'm set for a few years ahead, until true wireless matured enough and maybe finally get higher bitrate codec.
> 
> The included IEM is also surprisingly good! I want to utilize it one way or another, but I don't want to take my U12 off from this.



does the hiss still appears when you max out the volume on the phone and adjust the volume on the TM2 down?


----------



## AnakChan

jeffri said:


> I think I don't need anything else for true wireless. This is amazing... slight hiss, but otherwise drive my U12 well enough. I don't miss much from Bluetooth receiver like BTR3 or ATH-PHA55BT, even with just aptX, it sounds as good. Apart from the large case that without battery, it's been amazingly convenient.
> 
> I'm set for a few years ahead, until true wireless matured enough and maybe finally get higher bitrate codec.
> 
> The included IEM is also surprisingly good! I want to utilize it one way or another, but I don't want to take my U12 off from this.


Did you hear hiss with the default TM2 drivers? I’m insensitive to hiss and did not detect it. My wife has more sensitive hearing than me but she didn’t hear it either.

However I have heard from other TM2 owners that it’s noticeable with some 3rd party IEMs (e.g. FitEar MH335DW or TG!334, and now with your U12). I did not detect any hiss with my Titans however.


----------



## WesennTony

Firevortex said:


> can you elaborate on the ANC performance for flights? such as how loud do you need to push the music for you to not hear plane noise? i find that ambient mode to drain the battery faster than any other modes.
> 
> ps. what ear tips you using?


I will say that ANC is quite effective. On/off will tell a significant difference of the noise level, and engine hum is so low and doesn't bother me. When playing music, I don't have to raise the volume and all the outside noise is gone. For padcast listening, though, the noise is more apparent, but still I could fall asleep.  Overall I think it's quite close to that of good isolating IEMs like Westone W60, which rates at 25dB Passive Noise Attenuation. As I said in my previous post, the Nuarl can achieve this isolation level as well, so not really a killer. 

Now for all my TWS and IEMs, I'm using Sony hybrid eartips (the silicone ones, not the triple comforts  that come with xm3).


----------



## nc8000

WesennTony said:


> Received Sony WF-1000xm3 this Wednesday, so I was able to bring them for a business trip together with Nuarl NT01AX. For SQ, while both are neutral and balanced, xm3 have a slight but discernible Sony veil, and Nuarl is very natural. xm3 have a slightly more clarity, probably due to a lower noise floor. But Nuarl have a wider sound stage. I'd also like to add Mavin Air-x into comparison. To my ears, Air-X sound is more clinical, xm3 more veiled, and Nuarl more music and fluid.  An Eq of a slight drop in high on xm3 pushes them more toward Nuarl, and after that I'll rate the SQ to be Nuarl > xm3~Air-X for my taste. Probably not a good analogy, Nuarl are like pure water, air-X like sparkling one, and xm3 with added flavor. I like the sound to be natural and faithful.
> 
> Appearance xm3 win. They look premium and professional, a lower profile comparing Nuarl. The charging case look premium as well, though more than double the size as that of Nuarl and air-X. The magnet attachment works very well. I don't know why the case has to be designed to lie down, but not a big deal.
> 
> ...



I used my XM3 for over 6 hours straight yesterday from my iPhone with aac with ANC constantly on and volume at about 60% and the battery ended up at 20% so could probably have continued another 1-2 hours. Sound in general is probably the best of any tws I’ve tried


----------



## Caipirina

I just noticed that there's no more KZ T1  ... well, not at the official store anymore, I saw one shop still selling them ... guess this means that V1 is nearly sold out and now we wait for V2 (rumor has it it comes with USB-C and different eartips? Taken from one of the reviews on AE) ...   I am very curious to hopefully receive mine on Monday .. or a few days later .. we shall see


----------



## Caipirina

Bartig said:


> Oh, I ordered two new models:
> 
> 
> The next Tronsmart installment with, again, an awkward name. The first Spunky Buds were quite good sports buds with some flaws. Hope they improved this time.
> ...



So, looks like you keep on hoarding   But thanks for sharing all those new treasures you discover ... i'd be curious to try those UiiSii, having had some very good IEM experiences with them 
I think though that after the KZ T1 and then the Nillkin Go (both in the mail), I'll be done for a while .. like until 11.11   I still have IEMs I received over my summer shopping spree that I have not really played with yet as my focus was all on TWE this time around...


----------



## Soreniglio

QCY T3 still restocking after a week and a half


----------



## Caipirina (Aug 4, 2019)

Sharing storage suggestion for fellow hoarders  
Works like a charme. 
Can easily be hidden away in closet if need be


----------



## hifi80sman

Caipirina said:


> Sharing storage suggestion for fellow hoarders
> Works like a charme.
> Can easily be hidden away in closet if need be


Somehow, that photo fits nicely with some weird horror movie.


----------



## jeffri

chinmie said:


> does the hiss still appears when you max out the volume on the phone and adjust the volume on the TM2 down?



I used the media volume sync, the hiss is constant when TM2 is active and not idle (only when playing something), the volume doesn't seem to correlate to the hiss. It wasn't bad, I think below the hiss of Bluewave GET and even XB10. Easy to forget when the music is playing, but you'll notice when you stop playback there is a slight moment before TM2 going idle that you'll hear the hiss.


----------



## jeffri

AnakChan said:


> Did you hear hiss with the default TM2 drivers? I’m insensitive to hiss and did not detect it. My wife has more sensitive hearing than me but she didn’t hear it either.
> 
> However I have heard from other TM2 owners that it’s noticeable with some 3rd party IEMs (e.g. FitEar MH335DW or TG!334, and now with your U12). I did not detect any hiss with my Titans however.



Yes, I did notice the hiss with the included IEM. Not as noticeable as U12, but it's there. I can hear it each time playback is stopped, when there is a slight moment before it went idle. Or when a website decide to autoplay video with volume muted, I'll notice immediately that the TM2 is active.


----------



## Caipirina

hifi80sman said:


> Somehow, that photo fits nicely with some weird horror movie.



LOL ... Trophy case? 
"The TWE I took from all my victims ... "


----------



## rulerofrecords (Aug 4, 2019)

1st - sorry for the empty post above. 2nd - sorry if this has been already asked ad nauseam. I have no experience at all with in ear, let alone wireless.  I'm looking for an educated reference as to what kind of sound quality I can expect from a 30 - 50 USD wireless in ear?? I own a ZMF Eikon and a Sony WH-1000X M3. Not surprisingly the Sony can not match the ZMF in any aspect - but within its given limitations, the Sony to me sounds pleasant by not trying to do something it simply cannot do. However the Sony to me even with new Dekoni Pads ist not the most comfortable long distance cruiser (Clamp, ANC-Seal??) That is why I'm looking forward to try an in ear wireless. So when u guys say a Syllable S101, Sabbat E12, Anbes 359, Wpow T5  etc. etc. "sounds very good" how can I place that verdict within my limited headphone cosmos? I am only going to use the true wireless in ears for casual listening to youtube or sound sources with a similar quaity. The ZMF will be taking care of "serious" music listening. cheers and thanx in advance for your input ...

PS: I'm not bothering you with "comfort" as I understand this is a very individual issue and subject to try and error ...


----------



## bronco1015

hifi80sman said:


> I got a 90 day ban from Best Buy once, but then I just started paying cash and returning at different Best Buy locations, as to not be "made".  They never once asked for ID.
> 
> I buy so much stuff on Amazon that a few returns here and there never affect me.  I did receive a "we're concerned" email once, but that was early on in this hobby and I literally returned like 12 pairs of headphones, in like, 12 days.


 I started to wonder last week whether or not i might get a warning from Amazon of some sort, as i knew that potentially i'd be returning the XM3s, mpow T5s and MeeAudio X10s. X10s are going back obviously, as they shouldn't even be packaged in a kids happy meal let alone cost $80 on Amazon, BB etc. Speaking of the Sonys, i got them Wednesday, and have been playing catch up on this thread. don't have a full opinion formed yet, but What at Clerkpalmer described several pages back about the sound being pretty disapointing initially, matched my experience. listened to them for 3 hours or so however, and did definitely notice a change in SQ. That is to say, they sounded much better than initially. The ANC is great, and i wanted these in part for that, but even with improved sound, not sure whether or not it will be enough to keep them. Once i have a chance to try the EQ on the app out i'll know pretty quickly. First thing i'll start with is to see if i can add some life into the mids as they're pretty lacking in 'flat" mode imo.


----------



## SilverEars (Aug 4, 2019)

bronco1015 said:


> I started to wonder last week whether or not i might get a warning from Amazon of some sort, as i knew that potentially i'd be returning the XM3s, mpow T5s and MeeAudio X10s. X10s are going back obviously, as they shouldn't even be packaged in a kids happy meal let alone cost $80 on Amazon, BB etc. Speaking of the Sonys, i got them Wednesday, and have been playing catch up on this thread. don't have a full opinion formed yet, but What at Clerkpalmer described several pages back about the sound being pretty disapointing initially, matched my experience. listened to them for 3 hours or so however, and did definitely notice a change in SQ. That is to say, they sounded much better than initially. The ANC is great, and i wanted these in part for that, but even with improved sound, not sure whether or not it will be enough to keep them. Once i have a chance to try the EQ on the app out i'll know pretty quickly. First thing i'll start with is to see if i can add some life into the mids as they're pretty lacking in 'flat" mode imo.


Are you talking about the WFXM3?  It didn't meet my expectations or I was basically disappointed with them.  ANC is a joke, and I think it's not a real ANC like the full-sized WHXM3, and reality is that it's too difficult to make areal working high quality ANC in an iem.  It sounds like the cancelling waves on the low-end was cancelling the subs.  That ANC is nowhere on the level of full-sized.  I don't like the elongated size of the earpieces (reminds me of duchey looking BT earpieces from back in the days).  SQ isn't really good as these Youtube reviewers are hyping them up to be.  It's not even better than cheap wired dynamic driver iems.

The main issue that I have with TW is that the amps are not driving these dynamic drivers hard enough to get good sound quality.  Bass was a bit mushy and the treble sounded uneven, and like usual, low separation of sounds.  Yeah, not paying $230 for them as I'm fine with the 65t that I paid less than half of that amount for.  For this level of SQ, I just need 'good enough for the gym' level.  I know there are much terrible ones out there (peaky treble or overpowering low-end that skews the tonality), but as long as the tonality is fairly balanced, they are good enough for their deeds.  Other than gym, rest of my time is with wired because of simplicity of no charging and plug and play, and most importantly, sound quality.


----------



## nc8000

SilverEars said:


> Are you talking about the WFXM3?  It didn't meet my expectations or I was basically disappointed with them.  ANC is a joke, and I think it's not a real ANC like the full-sized WHXM3, and it too difficult to make a high quality ANC on an iem.  It sounds like the cancelling waves on the low-end was cancelling the subs.  That ANC is nowhere on the level of full-sized.  I don't like the elongated size of the earpieces (reminds me of duchey looking BT earpieces from back in the days).  SQ isn't really good as these Youtube reviewers are hyping them up to be.  It's not even better than cheap wired dynamic driver iems.  The main issue that I have with TW is that the amps are not driving these dynamic drivers hard enough to get good sound quality.  Bass was a bit mushy and the treble sounded uneven, and like usual, low separation of sounds.  Yeah, not paying $230 for them as I'm fine with the 65t that I paid less than half of that amount for.



To me they are plenty good enough and better than the 3 other tws I’ve tried (Beoplay E8, Havit G1 and Earin M2). In my use case for commuting, excercising and flying I would not be able to appreciate ir notice any better sq given the level of background noise in these situations and the ANC works OK but not to the level of the full size XM3. All in all I’m happy with them


----------



## WesennTony

nc8000 said:


> I used my XM3 for over 6 hours straight yesterday from my iPhone with aac with ANC constantly on and volume at about 60% and the battery ended up at 20% so could probably have continued another 1-2 hours. Sound in general is probably the best of any tws I’ve tried


Good to know. My first test of battery life may not be typical since I played around different settings in the app quite a lot. Unfortunately I only use more than 6hrs when I take a flight so I have to wait to test again. The sound is growing on me. For sure they are in the top group in terms of SQ, where one's music taste matters more. The EQ in app is quite effective and convenient. I can understand that they're the one to beat for commute, considering the combination of look, features, and sound.


----------



## Mouseman

Is anyone else with the Mpow T5s having problems with them auto pairing? They were fine at first, but now when I pull them out of the case half the time I have to hold down the button and reconnect them. I've deleted them and repaired, it doesn't make any difference. I really like them, and so I'm wondering if I got a bum set.


----------



## Caipirina

SilverEars said:


> [...]ANC is a joke, and I think it's not a real ANC like the full-sized WHXM3, and reality is that it's too difficult to make areal working high quality ANC in an iem.  [...]



I am waiting, hoping for at least Bose QC20 (which are wired IEMs) level ANC (which I think is fantastic) in the upcoming Bose TWS 700 next year ... or any competitor's if they figure it out ... I don't think it is too difficult ... heck, 3 years ago the idea of properly working and stay connected TWE seemed 'too difficult' ... now we can get pretty good ones for 20$ ;D


----------



## Caipirina

Speaking of ANC .. anyone know THESE? I recall seeing them also labeled as Samload .. the first very positive review somehow reads like a amazon shill review .. but of course, I could be wrong


----------



## vstolpner

Caipirina said:


> Speaking of ANC .. anyone know THESE? I recall seeing them also labeled as Samload .. the first very positive review somehow reads like a amazon shill review .. but of course, I could be wrong



Those are going to be some Shrek ears though... Reminds me of the iQute TWS.

Also - 25dB noise reduction... Any well isolating earphones are going to do fairly similar. Pretty sure my Anbes 359 do more than that with the eartips I'm using on them.


----------



## Caipirina

vstolpner said:


> Those are going to be some Shrek ears though... Reminds me of the iQute TWS.
> 
> Also - 25dB noise reduction... Any well isolating earphones are going to do fairly similar. Pretty sure my Anbes 359 do more than that with the eartips I'm using on them.



another pair of Shrek ear buds are the Bose SSF, which I love and don't mind the look ... other that come to mind are the 1more stylish (still somewhat ambivalent about them) and the Tronmart Spunky buds, which I never tried because of those looks  

never fully trusting those db numbers on ANC ... guess only a listening test would tell ... well, will keep them on my wishlist for now .. maybe something for 11.11


----------



## actorlife

Caipirina said:


> Speaking of ANC .. anyone know THESE? I recall seeing them also labeled as Samload .. the first very positive review somehow reads like a amazon shill review .. but of course, I could be wrong



Bah no volume control and round bad combo. The charging case looks like the syllables. I think you better stop you're at 30ish TWS. Aww snap.


----------



## Caipirina

actorlife said:


> Bah no volume control and round bad combo. The charging case looks like the syllables. I think you better stop you're at 30ish TWS. Aww snap.



but .. but .. but .. there are still empty slots in my trophy case


----------



## hifi80sman

SilverEars said:


> Are you talking about the WFXM3?  It didn't meet my expectations or I was basically disappointed with them.  ANC is a joke, and I think it's not a real ANC like the full-sized WHXM3, and reality is that it's too difficult to make areal working high quality ANC in an iem.  It sounds like the cancelling waves on the low-end was cancelling the subs.  That ANC is nowhere on the level of full-sized.  I don't like the elongated size of the earpieces (reminds me of duchey looking BT earpieces from back in the days).  SQ isn't really good as these Youtube reviewers are hyping them up to be.  It's not even better than cheap wired dynamic driver iems.
> 
> The main issue that I have with TW is that the amps are not driving these dynamic drivers hard enough to get good sound quality.  Bass was a bit mushy and the treble sounded uneven, and like usual, low separation of sounds.  Yeah, not paying $230 for them as I'm fine with the 65t that I paid less than half of that amount for.  For this level of SQ, I just need 'good enough for the gym' level.  I know there are much terrible ones out there (peaky treble or overpowering low-end that skews the tonality), but as long as the tonality is fairly balanced, they are good enough for their deeds.  Other than gym, rest of my time is with wired because of simplicity of no charging and plug and play, and most importantly, sound quality.


I haven't tried them yet, but based on your experience and feedback from others with similar responses, I think a lager driver (8mm vs. 6mm) would have worked better in creating inverted sound waves to cancel the noise, which is why you're going to get better ANC from over-ear units.  That being said, it would hit battery life, so they'd have to use a higher end battery in order to maintain the target battery life.  I think it all boils down to what their target MSRP is and what they can pack in there in order to maintain margins and drive sales, hence reliance on market research.

A while back I completed survey (I purchased the original WF-1000X) and gave them my top 3 wants (they asked for my top 3), which I believe were SQ, battery life, and if i remember correctly, app control.  I'm assuming they didn't think people cared for IP rating, since it probably scored lower on the list.  That being said, if someone is asked to pick their top 3 movies of all time, sure they can, but if they purchase a collection, they're probably going want their top 10.  So, even asking people what their top 3 of this or that may give you some idea, many times, I want more than just my top 3 reasons...I want it all, baby!


----------



## hifi80sman

Mouseman said:


> Is anyone else with the Mpow T5s having problems with them auto pairing? They were fine at first, but now when I pull them out of the case half the time I have to hold down the button and reconnect them. I've deleted them and repaired, it doesn't make any difference. I really like them, and so I'm wondering if I got a bum set.


Haven't had any issues at all.  iPhone or Android?  I'd recommend a power off/restart of your phone.  Also, I notice they are a bit slippery, so if you managed to get them up a bit but then they make contact with the charging prongs again, it can throw off the auto-pairing.


----------



## clerkpalmer

hifi80sman said:


> I haven't tried them yet, but based on your experience and feedback from others with similar responses, I think a lager driver (8mm vs. 6mm) would have worked better in creating inverted sound waves to cancel the noise, which is why you're going to get better ANC from over-ear units.  That being said, it would hit battery life, so they'd have to use a higher end battery in order to maintain the target battery life.  I think it all boils down to what their target MSRP is and what they can pack in there in order to maintain margins and drive sales, hence reliance on market research.
> 
> A while back I completed survey (I purchased the original WF-1000X) and gave them my top 3 wants (they asked for my top 3), which I believe were SQ, battery life, and if i remember correctly, app control.  I'm assuming they didn't think people cared for IP rating, since it probably scored lower on the list.  That being said, if someone is asked to pick their top 3 movies of all time, sure they can, but if they purchase a collection, they're probably going want their top 10.  So, even asking people what their top 3 of this or that may give you some idea, many times, I want more than just my top 3 reasons...I want it all, baby!



And sony has the resources to deliver everything and they didn’t. It’s a fine product. But it’s basically a prettier wf-1000x.  I’m sure they will sell like hot cakes. I’m still disappointed that they couldn’t deliver the best tw experience to date. I don’t think it’s too much to ask a mega company like Sony to deliver in all areas. That said, my guess is the sports version is coming and that might move the needle for me.


----------



## hifi80sman

Soo...I recently purchased these:

MEGIVEZ
Just like the MEBUYZ (same company/seller), these suck.  They looked like a simple re-brand of the X-Pods (reviewed here by @Bartig), but they are not.  It's a bassy, muddy mess, which also sounds very hollow.  Poor drivers.  EQ just makes it a different kind of bad.  Just say "NO" to MEGIVEZ and don't give MEGIVEZ to anyone.  Me no give.  Me give back.

GRDE
I had to return the Creative Outlier Air because the buttons were just too firm and I found I constantly had to readjust after pressing them.  I thought I'd get used to it, but just couldn't.  Sooo...looking for a similar form factor but with touch controls, I came across these, which I must say, come really close to the Creative Outlier Air sound-wise.  AAC, USB C, and a 6,000 mAh case, along with a protective pouch for the case, rounds out a nice package for $55.  Bass is deep, the overall signature leans warm and could use a cut in some of the upper bass/low mids, along with a push in the low treble (2-4 kHz), but they EQ well with good quality drivers. Anyone looking in this range should seriously consider these.  Definitely fun and can be made pretty darn nice with subtle EQ.  Oh, and the touch controls are one of the most responsive I have encountered.  What I mean is, there is typically a delay from the 'buds to the phone, but these respond quite nicely.

Since I am a complete and utter degenerate, I also purchased these CloudFox 'buds, which should arrive sometime today.  USB C, touch controls, and look quite snazzy (watch the cheesy Amazon video).  For $32, I hoping these are a sleeper hit.


----------



## clerkpalmer

hifi80sman said:


> Soo...I recently purchased these:
> 
> MEGIVEZ
> Just like the MEBUYZ (same company/seller), these suck.  They looked like a simple re-brand of the X-Pods (reviewed here by @Bartig), but they are not.  It's a bassy, muddy mess, which also sounds very hollow.  Poor drivers.  EQ just makes it a different kind of bad.  Just say "NO" to MEGIVEZ and don't give MEGIVEZ to anyone.  Me no give.  Me give back.
> ...


Have you tried the advanced? A little more than 55 but I think you’d enjoy them and touch controls. Funny about the controls. I’ve been having issues with touch controls and sweat. The anbes have nice physical buttons and had no issues on my bike. So they’re staying.


----------



## Judge Buff

I just won an Edifier TWS1 on aliexpress. I’ll review it. I look forward to it’s “classic sound,” as the review I read called it’s signature.


----------



## Bartig

Judge Buff said:


> I just won an Edifier TWS1 on aliexpress. I’ll review it. I look forward to it’s “classic sound,” as the review I read called it’s signature.


A model I'm interested in, as Edifier mostly makes decent products.


----------



## Boreaquis

I've had some time with the Nillkin Go, so here are some more in-depth impressions.

 

First off, the look and feel. I quite like the simple and sleek design, and both the IEMs and the case feel very well-made. The case is the smallest I've seen, which is a nice bonus. My only complaint is that there's no USB-C or wireless charging, but with a price tag of less than $30, that's probably too much to ask for.

The shallow insertion design means that you won't get much noise isolation, but on the flip-side it means that they're very comfortable and that getting the right seal is quick and effortless. No issues at all taking them running in terrain either, the fit is excellent.

I've taken to using _I Am Abomination_ by _1349 _for testing, as it's such an intense track. The Nillkin Go handles it with ease, producing both the signature Black Metal double bass drumming with sufficient punch as well as crystal clear cymbal crashes and everything in between. As a lover of black/death and progressive metal, I find them to be a joy to listen to. 

In terms of sound profile, these feel quite similar to the excellent Sabbat X12 Pro. The biggest difference is in the treble, where the Sabbat can't match the Nillkin, so the aforementioned cymbals sound tame and subdued in comparison.

In conclusion, I'm very happy with these. My other TWS will probably see very little use from now on.


Further examples of music used for testing:
_Anaal Nathrakh_, _Emperor_, _Leprous_, _Behemoth_, _Bolt Thrower_, _1349_, _Windir_


----------



## Caipirina

Judge Buff said:


> I just won an Edifier TWS1 on aliexpress. I’ll review it. I look forward to it’s “classic sound,” as the review I read called it’s signature.



Congrats!!!!

 Curious to hear how your review process works out. In case this is your first freebie review, it is quite a batch of homework. And I seem to never get it right. The AI that looks over my finished review always says 
 

Following the ‘tips’ is not easy, as some of the headlines do not correspond to the tips ...

 

The facts that you can only write the review on phone, not desktop, plus there is no way to save mid writing / go back edit really do not help either. After about 5 attempts I have given up. I also think I might have gotten a crappy show room model (only get 30 min of battery time) of the ever so crappy i7 first ever AirPod clone. And not even in the advertised black color ...

 

Kinda done with the freebie game


----------



## Caipirina

hifi80sman said:


> Since I am a complete and utter degenerate, I also purchased these CloudFox 'buds, which should arrive sometime today.  USB C, touch controls, and look quite snazzy (watch the cheesy Amazon video).  For $32, I hoping these are a sleeper hit.



Just based on this video I feel I need those CloudFoxes in my ears!!!

Too bad that image search on AliExpress does not reveal anything...


----------



## SilverEars (Aug 4, 2019)

Caipirina said:


> I am waiting, hoping for at least Bose QC20 (which are wired IEMs) level ANC (which I think is fantastic) in the upcoming Bose TWS 700 next year ... or any competitor's if they figure it out ... I don't think it is too difficult ... heck, 3 years ago the idea of properly working and stay connected TWE seemed 'too difficult' ... now we can get pretty good ones for 20$ ;D


I was so curious how good an iem ANC can get and went ahead and got the QC20, and I got to say it's ANC is very good.  If Bose can pull off same level of ANC on TW, it would be a sucess.  The thing about QC20 is that the ANC circuit is quite bulky, and if they can shrink it down with the same performance I'd be all for it.

They recently came out with NC 700 full-sized, and they demonstrated they are able to filter out ambient noise up to 75dB, and have your voice come through the call crystal clear!  Awsome!  This is a big deal.  You can talk in a noisy environment, and the other side will hear you clearly.

I don't know why I didn't go for the QC20 earlier.  I think it sounds good and the biggest draw is it's ANC performance. Bass is a bit boomy and the treble is slightly on the grainy side, but I like the sound of these.  Good clarity on them.  I would prefer a more ergonomic fit with over the ear cabling to reduce micro-phonics.  I'm impressed with Bose's in-ear ANC capability.  Their general noise cancelling tech overall.


----------



## FYLegend (Aug 4, 2019)

hifi80sman said:


> Soo...I recently purchased these:
> 
> MEGIVEZ
> Just like the MEBUYZ (same company/seller), these suck.  They looked like a simple re-brand of the X-Pods (reviewed here by @Bartig), but they are not.  It's a bassy, muddy mess, which also sounds very hollow.  Poor drivers.  EQ just makes it a different kind of bad.  Just say "NO" to MEGIVEZ and don't give MEGIVEZ to anyone.  Me no give.  Me give back.
> ...


Can the GRDE charge itself or other devices using its USB port type C to C?

ANOMOIBUDS/Phantom IP010 Plus is another one with Type C + Qi charging, design reminiscent of Outlier Air. It even has Bixby activation coughcough... Some negative reviews in Korean that are sloppily translated. There was one on YouTube The wireless charging power is rated at 10W, but one reviewer on YouTube says there's a burning smell if charged with anything more than 5V - not sure if he's referring to wireless or wired though. Also note the case says it has 5V/2A input but the manual says you must use 5V/1A. From what the video shows it can be used as a 2600mah battery bank via C to C, but I'm not so sure if it could charge itself using C to C...
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32982552926.html


Here's some photos tearing down the broken Earfun free. It's an utterly tangled mess of wires with loads of adhesive around the shell. The drivers are smaller than I expected, and the green and orange pair of wires appears to be linked to it. I don't see anything wrong with the connection and tried to fiddle around with the wires to see if sound could be regained, to no avail. It might be possible the failure is down to the IC rather than the soldering...


----------



## blomman77

Do you feel that the bass goes deep on you're set?   My Nillkin have hardly any bass below 60hz
Beginning to think my set is faulty...


Boreaquis said:


> I've had some time with the Nillkin Go, so here are some more in-depth impressions.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## jant71

clerkpalmer said:


> Have you tried the advanced? A little more than 55 but I think you’d enjoy them and touch controls. Funny about the controls. I’ve been having issues with touch controls and sweat. The anbes have nice physical buttons and had no issues on my bike. So they’re staying.



I adjust fit esp. early on if I find the seal isn't equal, there is sweat, at times just take them out to take a break or talk to someone. Find myself holding the buds at times. No way I would find touch controls anything but troublesome and annoying and end up doing things I don't intend.




Caipirina said:


> Just based on this video I feel I need those CloudFoxes in my ears!!!
> 
> Too bad that image search on AliExpress does not reveal anything...



A whopping 15 hours with the case. Who wants a 3 hours per TW atm unless you are a total degenerate.


----------



## Caipirina

jant71 said:


> A whopping 15 hours with the case. Who wants a 3 hours per TW atm unless you are a total degenerate.



In the beginning of TWE I was also eyeing those times like a hawk. Waiting for the one that would be able to work through a marathon...

But in general, I rarely have listening sessions over 1h ... some runs go up to 2.5 h ....  so... while 3h is on the low end. I’d still would go for it, if the sq justifies it.


----------



## chinmie

Boreaquis said:


> I've had some time with the Nillkin Go, so here are some more in-depth impressions.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



try some accoustics on them and hear the treble shines more. i also like the bass speed: basically the overall sound is speedy like BAs, very minimal bloom and tail on the notes. really similar to studio monitor feel. i agree with you that the case is really slippery to open. putting a little abrasive surfaced stickers might help. i have familiarized myself so now i can open it swiftly, but it does become slippery after a while from natural oil of the hand. 

i only reach for my sabbat  when i got the Nillkin on charge, or when i just want to watch youtube. other than that, the Nillkin takes the main stage



blomman77 said:


> Do you feel that the bass goes deep on you're set?   My Nillkin have hardly any bass below 60hz
> Beginning to think my set is faulty...



i tested it and my unit can go down to 30hz, and i have no problem hearing the subbass even in public environment like malls, even with it's not to isolating nature



jant71 said:


> I adjust fit esp. early on if I find the seal isn't equal, there is sweat, at times just take them out to take a break or talk to someone. Find myself holding the buds at times. No way I would find touch controls anything but troublesome and annoying and end up doing things I don't intend.
> 
> A whopping 15 hours with the case. Who wants a 3 hours per TW atm unless you are a total degenerate.



yup, no touch controls for me if i can help it. and 3 hours of single charge use in this time of year is very short. 5 hours is minimum for me.


----------



## jant71

Caipirina said:


> In the beginning of TWE I was also eyeing those times like a hawk. Waiting for the one that would be able to work through a marathon...
> 
> But in general, I rarely have listening sessions over 1h ... some runs go up to 2.5 h ....  so... while 3h is on the low end. I’d still would go for it, if the sq justifies it.



Still have to see how it turns out for him. They are of course gonna say they sound good but SQ is not proven. Aside from the battery life it says "*Auto Pairing *
Only open the charging box, take earbuds out of charging case and they will seamlessly pair with each other automatically" but doesn't say it connects with the device automatically. Also looked at the video but no sound. Doesn't say how the controls work or if they leave out volume control or anything else. To me, they seem a higher risk for letdown and I would have passed again unless being a total degenerate.


----------



## Firevortex

SilverEars said:


> Are you talking about the WFXM3?  It didn't meet my expectations or I was basically disappointed with them.  ANC is a joke, and I think it's not a real ANC like the full-sized WHXM3, and reality is that it's too difficult to make areal working high quality ANC in an iem.  It sounds like the cancelling waves on the low-end was cancelling the subs.  That ANC is nowhere on the level of full-sized.  I don't like the elongated size of the earpieces (reminds me of duchey looking BT earpieces from back in the days).  SQ isn't really good as these Youtube reviewers are hyping them up to be.  It's not even better than cheap wired dynamic driver iems.
> 
> The main issue that I have with TW is that the amps are not driving these dynamic drivers hard enough to get good sound quality.  Bass was a bit mushy and the treble sounded uneven, and like usual, low separation of sounds.  Yeah, not paying $230 for them as I'm fine with the 65t that I paid less than half of that amount for.  For this level of SQ, I just need 'good enough for the gym' level.  I know there are much terrible ones out there (peaky treble or overpowering low-end that skews the tonality), but as long as the tonality is fairly balanced, they are good enough for their deeds.  Other than gym, rest of my time is with wired because of simplicity of no charging and plug and play, and most importantly, sound quality.



i think your expectations are too high for TWE. just like i dont expect top IEMs to perform on par with top over ears nor do i expect top over ear to perform on par with top speaker systems. just like i use the TWEs for phone calls, commuting and office with out the hassle of wires dangling around. i dont expect those TWE to be critical listening devices which i got my speaker system and my full sized rigs for. most decent Youtuber reviews are base on comparing them with other TWEs. stating those Sonys are crap simply because they dont hold up to a full sized headphones or Amped IEM is ridiculous. its like saying my $500k speaker system  sounds better than the orpheus 2 thus headphones are crap because sound quality is the most important.


----------



## chinmie

SilverEars said:


> Other than gym, rest of my time is with wired because of simplicity of no charging and plug and play, and most importantly, sound quality.



what wired iem do you use? if you have a single DD or a not so sensitive IEM, try the BT20S route. i now mainly use it for my EDC (and my trusty Nillkin Go when isolation is not necessary). charging is a bit of a hassle that i cut the rubber flap and put those magnet charger on it, but the battery practically can go a day of use (always on standby and 8 hours of play)


----------



## chinmie

jeffri said:


> I used the media volume sync, the hiss is constant when TM2 is active and not idle (only when playing something), the volume doesn't seem to correlate to the hiss. It wasn't bad, I think below the hiss of Bluewave GET and even XB10. Easy to forget when the music is playing, but you'll notice when you stop playback there is a slight moment before TM2 going idle that you'll hear the hiss.





jeffri said:


> Yes, I did notice the hiss with the included IEM. Not as noticeable as U12, but it's there. I can hear it each time playback is stopped, when there is a slight moment before it went idle. Or when a website decide to autoplay video with volume muted, I'll notice immediately that the TM2 is active.



there's slight noise with the included micro driver iem? have you tried it wired to your DAP and check the sensitivity /volume level? with the cheaper TRN BT20/BT20S, there is no hiss at all with single DDs, but there's quite noticable hiss with my DM6, and a very faint /barely noticeable hiss with my Hisenior B5+. can you please try the TM2 with your other IEMs to see about the hiss level? 

i was planning to buy the TM2 a few months ago when i went to Japan, but they're out of stock. i was planning to stick my ER4XR with it, so i would love to hear your feedback about the hiss level


----------



## clerkpalmer

Looks like the Klipsch have been delayed to 10/1 per amazon. Must be experiencing issues getting them ready for the public.


----------



## jeffri

chinmie said:


> there's slight noise with the included micro driver iem? have you tried it wired to your DAP and check the sensitivity /volume level? with the cheaper TRN BT20/BT20S, there is no hiss at all with single DDs, but there's quite noticable hiss with my DM6, and a very faint /barely noticeable hiss with my Hisenior B5+. can you please try the TM2 with your other IEMs to see about the hiss level?
> 
> i was planning to buy the TM2 a few months ago when i went to Japan, but they're out of stock. i was planning to stick my ER4XR with it, so i would love to hear your feedback about the hiss level



Yeah, I'll give it a try. Sensitivity-wise on the TM2, the included IEM is only slightly less sensitive than my U12, I use it just one or two click more volume than U12.

I have FD01 and FX850 for another dynamic driver to try. Maybe Flares Pro too, but I'll see if their mmcx male end could fit the TM2 base.


----------



## Caipirina

jant71 said:


> Still have to see how it turns out for him. [...] To me, they seem a higher risk for letdown and I would have passed again unless being a total degenerate.



People in white dancing in Paris are almost never wrong  


 

I am actually quite impressed by this, it beats the crap out of the shoddily photoshopped buds onto generic models crap we have gotten so used to ... 

Could also mean that all the money from QC went into marketing


----------



## Boreaquis

chinmie said:


> i agree with you that the case is really slippery to open. putting a little abrasive surfaced stickers might help. i have familiarized myself so now i can open it swiftly, but it does become slippery after a while from natural oil of the hand.



That's not what I meant by sleek, but you're right. 

The rounded shape and the strong magnet makes it a bit tricky to get the lid off at first. I'm getting better at it as well.


----------



## DigDub

clerkpalmer said:


> Looks like the Klipsch have been delayed to 10/1 per amazon. Must be experiencing issues getting them ready for the public.


The Klipsch t5? We have boxes of them lying around in shops here in Singapore. The Sony wf-1000xm3 ran out fast though.


----------



## AnakChan (Aug 5, 2019)

So I've finally put my Fostex TM2 review up. You can find it in my sig below. These are the top tier of true wireless especially when one can pair with whatever IEMs they like. For me I'm likely to have these paired my Titans, and if I get a chance to pick up a 2-pin, then with my Traulcent Audio 1Plus2.2's.


----------



## igorneumann

nc8000 said:


> How many here intend to use tws for critical listening in quiet surroundings ?
> 
> For me tws are for commuting, jogging, gym and so on and in those environments I find that outright sq is much less important than the feature set of the tws.



I actually use wired bluetooth for all of those (ok, I actually dont exercice)... TWS is for work only, because I can use just 1 or put it / remove it very quickly.

That said, I would buy a buttonless featureless TWS earphone with great SQ in a split second, even if battery life was 1,5hours.

All I want is a good SQ in a small practical package, and nothing else.


----------



## clerkpalmer

DigDub said:


> The Klipsch t5? We have boxes of them lying around in shops here in Singapore. The Sony wf-1000xm3 ran out fast though.


Yes. That’s bizarre. They have not been released in the US to my knowledge.


----------



## AnakChan (Aug 5, 2019)

clerkpalmer said:


> Yes. That’s bizarre. They have not been released in the US to my knowledge.


They're definitely available in Asia. A Hong Kong friend of mine just asked me about it (but I've never tried them so couldn't advise her).


----------



## igorneumann

Trying the KZ T1... They are objectivelly good, not "good for a TWS" but good IEMs and do sound better than many wired IEMs.

For me, we finally got there. 

Ps.: Havent tried the Sony nor the 1more, but for me, the search is over.


----------



## clerkpalmer

igorneumann said:


> Trying the KZ T1... They are objectivelly good, not "good for a TWS" but good IEMs and do sound better than many wired IEMs.
> 
> For me, we finally got there.
> 
> Ps.: Havent tried the Sony nor the 1more, but for me, the search is over.


Sweet. Just need mine to get off that plane. Let us know about the battery life.


----------



## crezo

Good to hear, I've got eyes on these as I usually listen hybrids so these sound like they'd be good!!



igorneumann said:


> Trying the KZ T1... They are objectivelly good, not "good for a TWS" but good IEMs and do sound better than many wired IEMs.
> 
> For me, we finally got there.
> 
> Ps.: Havent tried the Sony nor the 1more, but for me, the search is over.


----------



## jeffri (Aug 5, 2019)

So I'm just about ready to test various IEMs with the TM2... after taking a bunch of photos, I started listening and...

It appears the right MMCX adapter for some reason, didn't want to output sound correctly. It happens the night before when trying it into my friends FW01, but I dismiss it as oddity as it works on the included pair.

Now, it also didn't work with the included pair anymore. The right side just won't output sound to my ear, I can wiggle it a bit and I can hear the sound on and off, but never got into a resting position where it would work. I don't see anything bend on the pin inside... oh well, I ordered a replacement adapter with Amazon Japan, so my test will be pending until that arrives.

For now though, I give the TM2 IEM a test with cable and compare it to a few IEMs at my arsenal. This include the Fostex TE04 on the low end, JVC FX850 on mid end and JVC FD01 on the higher end. All of these are dynamic driver.

General impression I had with the TM2 IEM is that it lacks a bit of bass, but otherwise pretty balanced. It's a bit of the thin side for me, however with great details and coherence. It might be a touch too much on upper mid for my taste, but it fell short of being sibilance, so that's good. This does reminds me of Andromeda a bit signature-wise, but of course it wasn't at that level...

Now for comparison, first against the old sibling, Fostex TE04. Right away, I can tell that the TE04 has more bass, boomy bass. There isn't much quality in TE04 bass, so I prefer the leaner TM2 here. TE04 has a rather V-shaped sound, so it does has somewhat piercing treble, with the mid dipped quite hard. For me, there is no comparison, TM2 won.

Next, going against FX850, it's a bit of a closer match. The FX850 score with bigger boomy bass, but with a better quality that I like. The mid is also thicker, giving a good body to vocal that I also prefer. However, FX850 fell short on the timbre which is slightly odd, maybe a bit plasticky? Not sure about the correct terms. I found the TM2 to be better timbre-wise. Technically, I think TM2 is slightly better and I do enjoy TM2 more despite me liking FX850 bass and mids.

Finally, against the FD01, the JVC do have more bass, but it wasn't boomy. This is a cleaner, well extended bass, that the TM2 somehow lack. The mids are slightly thicker on FD01, but neither is on thick side. Treble on FD01 is just right for me, TM2 is slightly more elevated I think, but still within my tolerance. Now, FD01 is also a better IEM in terms of technicality and details, so here I do prefer FD01.

Tldr; FD01 > TM2 > FX850 > TE04

Both FD01 and TM2 are harder to drive, I'm hovering around 45/60 on my Onkyo Granbeat at normal gain. The TE04 is around 41-42, while FX850 is around 38.

In short, I think the TM2 included IEM is really good, well competitive at this price even without the Bluetooth module. However, I didn't expect it to sound this way with cable, I don't remember it sounding thin when using the Bluetooth set, not thick either, but just about right. I can't confirm right now though with my right adapter busted.

Oh well, I'll enjoy it with my U12 for the week. 

Also fun fact: the TM2 MMCX adapter won't work with Fostex TE04. It won't click into place. Further investigation shows that the TE04 cable has slightly longer MMCX head, maybe like 0.3mm or something. This is weird to me because... both are FOSTEX!


----------



## igorneumann

crezo said:


> Good to hear, I've got eyes on these as I usually listen hybrids so these sound like they'd be good!!



Found the 1st problem... it lack volume levels.
Its either too loud or too low, have to play a bit more to check if I can fix it on the cellphone.


----------



## igorneumann

clerkpalmer said:


> Sweet. Just need mine to get off that plane. Let us know about the battery life.



Will not have time today to check battery life, can report on this tomorrow.

But I did found some problems with it already:

- Too few volume steps... its either NONE, too low, too high or maximum. (probably I can unpair the cellphone's volume and the IEM volume to fix it)
- EVERYTIME I tried to double tap it to change songs it detected just 1 tap.
- Micro USB, Really?

That said, it sounds awesome, looks awesome, the fit is good,


----------



## phiemon

So, I'm looking for the best sounding true wireless IEM and I found now these:

Sennheiser Momentum True Wireless 
Bang & Olufsen Beoplay E8 2.0
Sony WF-1000XM3

Is there others IEMs to consider?

Thanks!


----------



## Bartig

Whoah! A local online shop are lending these to me (and later on the Sony’s) to test, review and compare them!


----------



## chinmie

igorneumann said:


> Will not have time today to check battery life, can report on this tomorrow.
> 
> But I did found some problems with it already:
> 
> ...




most TWS volume adjustments are like that, the steps are a bit jumpy. 
what phone are you using? if you happen to uae samsung phones, you can adjust the step increments of the volume of the phone using the sound assistance app.

also, i recently enjoy to turn on the Dolby atmos feature on my Note 8, as it enhance the room/space feel of the sound, while giving a slight but noticable bass impact


----------



## Caipirina (Aug 5, 2019)

Received my KZ T1 today and had about 1h to play with them and straight out of the box, no change of tips, no burn in ... i am totally in awe!

Those sound really really good! Currently listening to Hanz Zimmer's Interstellar OST, one of my fav recordings which I must have listened to close to 100 times ... and I am suddenly making out minor details (low volume in the high region) that I have never heard / noticed before! The detail on these is phenomenal, while the bass, not overpowering, but sweet and punchy and can go low when needed. Have not done any mid specific testing yet, just enjoying as is right now ... but overall very very happy! Will do a battery test when I have the time 

I wonder sometimes if my brass ears can still correctly make out sound stage, but I have a feeling here that this easily beats the Anbes 359, which are often said to have a wide soundstage.

So far I did not experience a single connection drop.

Buuuut ... here are some minor pet-peeves I have noticed so far, maybe flaws on the design stage that can still be fixed (if KZ reads along here?)
-while the case feels premium (made by Mifo? same tag line   ) , the buds are a bit less so ... the 'famous from cheap buds' blinking red/blue lights do not help, plus, the blue lights keep blinking every 5 secs or so, which is really annoying in the dark (somehow I think I have read there was a way to turn that off? )



- the other thing is how the buds are placed in the case ...



when opening the case like this, the buds are exactly on opposite sides ... this is kinda annoying ... I have the same thing with the Whizzer TP1 ...

- the touch sensor reacts too quickly, it is easy to pause music by accident ... to do the triple click for vol up/down, you kinda need to 'aim' first, which already triggers a pause 

Overall minor things, but I am still super happy with the SQ ... the fit is very similar to the Sabbath x12 btw. Just more plasticky feel.

Too bad they have no IPX rating whatsoever ... would have made them my fav new running buds ...


----------



## igorneumann

phiemon said:


> So, I'm looking for the best sounding true wireless IEM and I found now these:
> 
> Sennheiser Momentum True Wireless
> Bang & Olufsen Beoplay E8 2.0
> ...



Im VERY impressed by the KZ T1... you should check it out.

True, I dont had any of those,m but comparing to the Whizzer TP1, The TFZ X1 and the Sabbat E12, they are miles ahead.


----------



## phiemon

igorneumann said:


> Im VERY impressed by the KZ T1... you should check it out.
> 
> True, I dont had any of those,m but comparing to the Whizzer TP1, The TFZ X1 and the Sabbat E12, they are miles ahead.



Unfortunately, I cannot find it here in Germany.


----------



## Caipirina (Aug 5, 2019)

phiemon said:


> Unfortunately, I cannot find it here in Germany.



@phiemon , AliExpress? When I was just staying in Germany I had everything sent there   This summer I did not have a single issue with customs.


----------



## igorneumann (Aug 5, 2019)

chinmie said:


> most TWS volume adjustments are like that, the steps are a bit jumpy.
> what phone are you using? if you happen to uae samsung phones, you can adjust the step increments of the volume of the phone using the sound assistance app.
> 
> also, i recently enjoy to turn on the Dolby atmos feature on my Note 8, as it enhance the room/space feel of the sound, while giving a slight but noticable bass impact



I have custom ROM, I can easily increase the steps, but this usually doesnt increase the device's step but "unlink" the cellphone volume to the device's volume.
It did solved the "too sensitive to regulate" AS10 for me.




Caipirina said:


> Received my KZ T1 today and had about 1h to play with them and straight out of the box, no change of tips, no burn in ... i am totally in awe!
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I agree the swapped sides in the Whizzer TP1 and the KZ T1 is an annoyance, but I think they did it to pack as tightly as possible in the case. Also agree in the cheap construction, it would be a KILLER product if was as well made as the TFZ.

NO IPX rating? Damn thats a bummer (havent checked) but I doubt I will trust it again after my TFZ X1 dying after 1 shower.

No disconnections here, neither, they are clearly better than the TFZ AND the Whizzer in this aspect.


----------



## Caipirina (Aug 5, 2019)

igorneumann said:


> NO IPX rating? Damn thats a bummer (havent checked) but I doubt I will trust it again after my TFZ X1 dying after 1 shower.
> .



I double checked again ... KZ Official and Bright Audio say 'Waterproof: No' while YaoYaoTiger says 'Waterproof: yes' ...  since none of the promotional material says anything regarding water / sweatproof / IPX, I am inclined to stay on the safe side and NOT go running with them (where I am now we have 95% humidity and I am totally drenched after each run, including the insides of my ears)

(small correction: YaoYaoTiger also says 'no' in the overview, but 'yes' in the spec-sheet ... probably a copy/paste error)


----------



## actorlife

Congrats *Caipirina(person rahaha) & igorneumann *on the T1. I'm so excited for you and jealous at the same time. Do you guys have the ZST to compare? I'm wondering if it has a similar SQ? Looking forward to the battery life at 50 percent. I'm thinking maybe 4 and half hours? and 80-95 Percent 3 hours? Dang I really want to hear these, F&%K. Slater did you order these?


----------



## actorlife

Bartig said:


> Whoah! A local online shop are lending these to me (and later on the Sony’s) to test, review and compare them!


That's amazing a big congrats. Hopefully more online stores will send you more stuff to review. AWESOME.


----------



## Caipirina

Bartig said:


> Whoah! A local online shop are lending these to me (and later on the Sony’s) to test, review and compare them!


 Congrats for the recognition of your awesome review work! 

Really curious how your hoarder soul will react to 'RETURNING' all those nice new toys! Especially the ones you like!


----------



## Caipirina

actorlife said:


> Do you guys have the ZST to compare? I'm wondering if it has a similar SQ?



I actually do own the ZST and will try to do some comparison ... but if memory serves I was never that impressed with them ... 

The last KZ I listened to more analytical and totally liked was the AS06 ... since then I also gotten a heap more KZs , but since I was too busy with TWS stuff, I never got beyond the 'are they working' test stage ... and still have those for future discovery and listening pleasure


----------



## TK33

Anyone using Senn MTW and experiencing skipping/connection issues?  Tried it on my commute for the first time today and experienced skipping almost every block while walking with the phone in my front pocket (and sometimes even just standing on the corner waiting for the light to change).  Also experienced skipping while just sitting on the train into NYC.  I am currently using my S9 as my source.  Wondering if I just have a bad unit or if this is common and I am just expecting too much from Bluetooth 5.0.  I did experience pairing issues on my S9 after trying to also pair with my desktop at home, which took me a few tries to resolve.

Pretty happy with the SQ but the skipping is a bit annoying.  Battery life is as expected (had 40% left after my 2 hour commute).  I just did a factory reset so I will try again on my way home tonight but am curious if others have the same experience with these.  This is my first pair of TWS so I don't really know what a "good connection" is.


----------



## DDDYKI

TK33 said:


> Anyone using Senn MTW and experiencing skipping/connection issues?  Tried it on my commute for the first time today and experienced skipping almost every block while walking with the phone in my front pocket (and sometimes even just standing on the corner waiting for the light to change).  Also experienced skipping while just sitting on the train into NYC.  I am currently using my S9 as my source.  Wondering if I just have a bad unit or if this is common and I am just expecting too much from Bluetooth 5.0.  I did experience pairing issues on my S9 after trying to also pair with my desktop at home, which took me a few tries to resolve.
> 
> Pretty happy with the SQ but the skipping is a bit annoying.  Battery life is as expected (had 40% left after my 2 hour commute).  I just did a factory reset so I will try again on my way home tonight but am curious if others have the same experience with these.  This is my first pair of TWS so I don't really know what a "good connection" is.


Fellow NYC commuter and S9 (Plus) owner here, and although I don't have the MTW (issues detailed throughout this thread), interference sucks around here. I have a phone holder attached to the strap of my messenger bag, which helps with connectivity. But if I'm out for a walk and my phone is in a pocket, interference is anyone's guess. My Bose Soundsport Wireless have been pretty good about it, only occasional skips. But I just picked up the Klipsch T5 Sport Wireless and that was giving me problems everywhere. Even on a train platform back home in New Jersey & my phone in my back pocket, frequent skips. I wonder if that's due to aptX, vs the AAC that my Bose uses. Indoors, I couldn't walk more than 8 or 10 feet without music skipping, either. This doesn't have me very hopeful about the T5 True Wireless I've been eyeing.

The Momentum 2 Wireless over-ears gave me fits a few years ago with interference when I had a Samsung S7. It wasn't so bad when I briefly used an iPhone, though. So it might also be our phones not putting out enough power.


----------



## hifi80sman

Bartig said:


> Whoah! A local online shop are lending these to me (and later on the Sony’s) to test, review and compare them!


I'd recommend testing out the MW07 first and then compare each one of the others to the MW07, which I personally feel is the benchmark in terms of SQ for TWS' at the moment.


----------



## hifi80sman

TK33 said:


> Anyone using Senn MTW and experiencing skipping/connection issues?  Tried it on my commute for the first time today and experienced skipping almost every block while walking with the phone in my front pocket (and sometimes even just standing on the corner waiting for the light to change).  Also experienced skipping while just sitting on the train into NYC.  I am currently using my S9 as my source.  Wondering if I just have a bad unit or if this is common and I am just expecting too much from Bluetooth 5.0.  I did experience pairing issues on my S9 after trying to also pair with my desktop at home, which took me a few tries to resolve.
> 
> Pretty happy with the SQ but the skipping is a bit annoying.  Battery life is as expected (had 40% left after my 2 hour commute).  I just did a factory reset so I will try again on my way home tonight but am curious if others have the same experience with these.  This is my first pair of TWS so I don't really know what a "good connection" is.


Using an iPhone Xs Max with my MTW, I have no issues with connection, even in crowded environments, however, this is not on a subway (we don't have those here).


----------



## BrokeSkoolBoi

I'm curious, when TW iems state that they support aptx, does that automatically include aptx low latency? I'm selling my sennheiser TW but I don't know of any other TW buds that support aptx 'low latency' so I wouldn't be able to use them with my Nintendo Switch.


----------



## TK33

DDDYKI said:


> Fellow NYC commuter and S9 (Plus) owner here, and although I don't have the MTW (issues detailed throughout this thread), interference sucks around here. I have a phone holder attached to the strap of my messenger bag, which helps with connectivity. But if I'm out for a walk and my phone is in a pocket, interference is anyone's guess. My Bose Soundsport Wireless have been pretty good about it, only occasional skips. But I just picked up the Klipsch T5 Sport Wireless and that was giving me problems everywhere. Even on a train platform back home in New Jersey & my phone in my back pocket, frequent skips. I wonder if that's due to aptX, vs the AAC that my Bose uses. Indoors, I couldn't walk more than 8 or 10 feet without music skipping, either. This doesn't have me very hopeful about the T5 True Wireless I've been eyeing.
> 
> The Momentum 2 Wireless over-ears gave me fits a few years ago with interference when I had a Samsung S7. It wasn't so bad when I briefly used an iPhone, though. So it might also be our phones not putting out enough power.



Thanks.  I think you are right regarding the interference just being bad in the city.  I also wonder if it is the aptX implementation on the S9.  The MTWs did seem slightly better than my old Mee Audio BTX1 cable, which couldn't go 10 feet without experiencing interference.  Perhaps that is why Samsung opted to use their own "scalable" codec for the Galaxy Buds.  A colleague uses these and says the only time he ever noticed issues is when he walks by Trump Tower...[insert conspiracy theories here].  

I have been eyeing the T5 True Wireless as well but am not sure if the connection will be any better on those either.  I am now leaning toward just keeping these and dealing with the interference (the price of convenience) until the technology improves or something better comes along.  I was also looking at the Shure RMCE-BT2 cable but you really can't beat the convenience of having no wires when commuting.

Maybe I just need a head mount for my phone (just kidding)


----------



## TK33

BrokeSkoolBoi said:


> I'm curious, when TW iems state that they support aptx, does that automatically include aptx low latency? I'm selling my sennheiser TW but I don't know of any other TW buds that support aptx 'low latency' so I wouldn't be able to use them with my Nintendo Switch.



My understanding is that aptX and aptX LL are different and just because it says aptX does not mean it is low latency.  

May I ask why you are selling?


----------



## igorneumann

BrokeSkoolBoi said:


> I'm curious, when TW iems state that they support aptx, does that automatically include aptx low latency? I'm selling my sennheiser TW but I don't know of any other TW buds that support aptx 'low latency' so I wouldn't be able to use them with my Nintendo Switch.



Even the non-LL aptx has lower latency than the regular sbc.


----------



## hifi80sman

Sadly, pass on the CloudFox.  https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07V1CKNSB/

Doesn't sound bad, just not that great (SBC only).  However, the deal breakers were the finicky touch controls (was only able to pause/play) and spotty connection.  Phone was in my front right pocket and when I went to use touch controls, it broke the connection.  WOW, that's just bad.


----------



## hifi80sman

BrokeSkoolBoi said:


> I'm curious, when TW iems state that they support aptx, does that automatically include aptx low latency? I'm selling my sennheiser TW but I don't know of any other TW buds that support aptx 'low latency' so I wouldn't be able to use them with my Nintendo Switch.


aptX and aptX-LL are completely different.  Off the top of my head, the only other TWS I can think of that supports aptX-LL is the NuForce BeFree8.  Obviously, not as good as the MTW in terms of SQ, but for $62 (right now, but price fluctuates) it's a solid option.  I had them for a bit, but returned them because of the fit.  I was OK with the SQ.

https://www.optoma.com/ap-nuforce/product/be-free8/

https://www.amazon.com/NuForce-Wireless-Premium-Earphones-Charging/dp/B075GG9GH8


----------



## hifi80sman

Me again.  Just ordered the "Ayake Silver O5" which basically looks like the Mifo O5 Pro (BA version) for $51 w/ coupon.  I had the Mifo O5 standard version and found it to be a bit too warm for my taste.  Hopefully, this really is the BA version and the listing photos aren't bogus.


----------



## Caipirina

hifi80sman said:


> Sadly, pass on the CloudFox.  https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07V1CKNSB/
> 
> Doesn't sound bad, just not that great (SBC only).  However, the deal breakers were the finicky touch controls (was only able to pause/play) and spotty connection.  Phone was in my front right pocket and when I went to use touch controls, it broke the connection.  WOW, that's just bad.



Thanks for the quick feedback! 

I am still so happy with my T1 that I totally forgot about that dancing couple with foxes in their ears ... guess all the money went into marketing  None left for product testing.


----------



## actorlife

Caipirina said:


> Thanks for the quick feedback!
> 
> I am still so happy with my T1 that I totally forgot about that dancing couple with foxes in their ears ... guess all the money went into marketing  None left for product testing.


So T1 your favorite TWS thus far?


----------



## Caipirina (Aug 5, 2019)

actorlife said:


> So T1 your favorite TWS thus far?



Need a few days for 'new toy fever' to settle down ...  but I am trying to come up with which IEM I like more (i.e. did NOT get that kind of smile on my face when I tried the KZ AS16, then again, those were nearly 3times the money and 4times the drivers and my expectations were in lofty highs ... all a matter of perspective)

Would need some hours of quiet alone time to do some serious A/B-ing) ..
for now I just feel like I don't want to take them out of my ears  

BTW, found THIS review of the T1 ... and, not sure if the writer Boby [sic] Sanburn is on this board, but at times I was wondering if this was written by an AI    There are some sentences that make zero sense to me

example (and oh, what demon magic is this? Text on that site is non-copy-pastable ... )




but at least this review has many pretty pictures!

There's not really much regarding the SQ .. only 'good for its price, but you can find better if you pay more' generic blah blah


----------



## actorlife

Caipirina said:


> Need a few days for 'new toy fever' to settle down ...  but I am trying to come up with which IEM I like more (i.e. did NOT get that kind of smile on my face when I tried the KZ AS16, then again, those were nearly 3times the money and 4times the drivers and my expectations were in lofty highs ... all a matter of perspective)
> 
> Would need some hours of quiet alone time to do some serious A/B-ing) ..
> for now I just feel like I don't want to take them out of my ears
> ...


Thanks for the article. 75% vol 3hrs, so maybe 50% vol 3hr and 30-45 min? OK quiet time. ✌️


----------



## jant71

igorneumann said:


> Will not have time today to check battery life, can report on this tomorrow.
> 
> But I did found some problems with it already:
> 
> ...



Again the convenience over SQ thing. I do the park to the car thing where I'll finish my listening so how the heck do you take them out of your ears and put them in the case w/o coming off pause and missing some audio. Shut them or the player off or turn off the BT on the device is tedious and annoying instead of just putting back in the case. Three taps to adjust volume? Does it at least stay in volume mode and accept a single tap to turn up another notch if needed or is it six taps for two notches of volume movement. The volume step thing is a pet peeve of mine; hate that next is a little too loud and the lower notch is a little to low thing. 

Though I'd like to hear these vs. the Duet 50 in sound comparison as the back bay are no slouch and they have aptX. Wouldn't get the KZ until they changed some things. Hopefully, if the T1 are actually Beta testers, they would improve some things in future versions.


----------



## hifi80sman

jant71 said:


> Again the convenience over SQ thing. I do the park to the car thing where I'll finish my listening so how the heck do you take them out of your ears and put them in the case w/o coming off pause and missing some audio. Shut them or the player off or turn off the BT on the device is tedious and annoying instead of just putting back in the case. Three taps to adjust volume? Does it at least stay in volume mode and accept a single tap to turn up another notch if needed or is it six taps for two notches of volume movement. The volume step thing is a pet peeve of mine; hate that next is a little too loud and the lower notch is a little to low thing.
> 
> Though I'd like to hear these vs. the Duet 50 in sound comparison as the back bay are no slouch and they have aptX. Wouldn't get the KZ until they changed some things. Hopefully, if the T1 are actually Beta testers, they would improve some things in future versions.


The formal designation is "Public Beta", which I think is good, because they are acknowledging there are some things they need to work on, as opposed to other companies (Bluedio) that knowingly release a beta, yet don't market as such, and then an "upgraded" version.


----------



## Mouseman

hifi80sman said:


> The formal designation is "Public Beta", which I think is good, because they are acknowledging there are some things they need to work on, as opposed to other companies (Bluedio) that knowingly release a beta, yet don't market as such, and then an "upgraded" version.


I ordered them, and boy....do I hope these aren't as half-a$$ed as the stuff Bluedio puts out.


----------



## actorlife

They are online on ebay ohoh: https://www.ebay.com/itm/KZ-T1-TWS-...552116?hash=item2ad153bbb4:g:7hwAAOSwsKddOBK~


----------



## FYLegend

hifi80sman said:


> Sadly, pass on the CloudFox.  https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07V1CKNSB/
> 
> Doesn't sound bad, just not that great (SBC only).  However, the deal breakers were the finicky touch controls (was only able to pause/play) and spotty connection.  Phone was in my front right pocket and when I went to use touch controls, it broke the connection.  WOW, that's just bad.


Hmm, these might be a good alternative. They look like a Jabra 65t knockoff but with Type C and 7h battery. Someone on Linustechtips video comments recommended it. He told me it was only SBC but that it still sounds good. https://www.amazon.com/Wireless-Bluetooth-wireless-Headphones-Microphone/dp/B07MF18TBK


----------



## igorneumann

hifi80sman said:


> Me again.  Just ordered the "Ayake Silver O5" which basically looks like the Mifo O5 Pro (BA version) for $51 w/ coupon.  I had the Mifo O5 standard version and found it to be a bit too warm for my taste.  Hopefully, this really is the BA version and the listing photos aren't bogus.



The TFZ X1 (Mifo O5 BA)  sounds really good and looks great, but it lack bass, and I like bass.


----------



## igorneumann

Caipirina said:


> Need a few days for 'new toy fever' to settle down ...  but I am trying to come up with which IEM I like more (i.e. did NOT get that kind of smile on my face when I tried the KZ AS16, then again, those were nearly 3times the money and 4times the drivers and my expectations were in lofty highs ... all a matter of perspective)
> 
> Would need some hours of quiet alone time to do some serious A/B-ing) ..
> for now I just feel like I don't want to take them out of my ears
> ...



I would love to have the 1more or Sony to compare, that look to be the best around, but all I have is my memory of how the TFZ sounded like, the Sabbat E12 and the whizzer TP1 (that I really didnt like that much)

It was the 1st tws I tried that I thought sounds good in all frequencies with good instrument separation and soundstage.

That said, I also have the "new toy fever" and used for a very few time, but is the 1st time im not instantly disappointed.


----------



## igorneumann

jant71 said:


> Again the convenience over SQ thing. I do the park to the car thing where I'll finish my listening so how the heck do you take them out of your ears and put them in the case w/o coming off pause and missing some audio. Shut them or the player off or turn off the BT on the device is tedious and annoying instead of just putting back in the case. Three taps to adjust volume? Does it at least stay in volume mode and accept a single tap to turn up another notch if needed or is it six taps for two notches of volume movement. The volume step thing is a pet peeve of mine; hate that next is a little too loud and the lower notch is a little to low thing.
> 
> Though I'd like to hear these vs. the Duet 50 in sound comparison as the back bay are no slouch and they have aptX. Wouldn't get the KZ until they changed some things. Hopefully, if the T1 are actually Beta testers, they would improve some things in future versions.



In this one I had no problem taking it out without pressing the butron... I suspect just the center is tactile and maybe thats why I always miss the double tap.

I can fix the volume in my cellphone (custom rom) but its a pain. 

I wouldnt bother too much about aptx, specially if you already have a compressed source, drivers and tuning are way more important, isnt unusual to find sbc headphones sounding better than aptx ones.


----------



## HiFlight

jant71 said:


> Again the convenience over SQ thing. I do the park to the car thing where I'll finish my listening so how the heck do you take them out of your ears and put them in the case w/o coming off pause and missing some audio. Shut them or the player off or turn off the BT on the device is tedious and annoying instead of just putting back in the case. Three taps to adjust volume? Does it at least stay in volume mode and accept a single tap to turn up another notch if needed or is it six taps for two notches of volume movement. The volume step thing is a pet peeve of mine; hate that next is a little too loud and the lower notch is a little to low thing.
> 
> Though I'd like to hear these vs. the Duet 50 in sound comparison as the back bay are no slouch and they have aptX. Wouldn't get the KZ until they changed some things. Hopefully, if the T1 are actually Beta testers, they would improve some things in future versions.


So far, the Duet 50 is at the top of my list when compared to my Creative Outlier, Jabra Elite,  Mifo O5, GRDE and Eoz.  Fit, playtime, SQ and stability of connection have all been outstanding!


----------



## Caipirina

igorneumann said:


> That said, I also have the "new toy fever" and used for a very few time, but is the 1st time im not instantly disappointed.



“Not instantly disappointed” is my new favorite rating for TWE


----------



## wizll

rulerofrecords said:


> 1st - sorry for the empty post above. 2nd - sorry if this has been already asked ad nauseam. I have no experience at all with in ear, let alone wireless.  I'm looking for an educated reference as to what kind of sound quality I can expect from a 30 - 50 USD wireless in ear?? I own a ZMF Eikon and a Sony WH-1000X M3. Not surprisingly the Sony can not match the ZMF in any aspect - but within its given limitations, the Sony to me sounds pleasant by not trying to do something it simply cannot do. However the Sony to me even with new Dekoni Pads ist not the most comfortable long distance cruiser (Clamp, ANC-Seal??) That is why I'm looking forward to try an in ear wireless. So when u guys say a Syllable S101, Sabbat E12, Anbes 359, Wpow T5  etc. etc. "sounds very good" how can I place that verdict within my limited headphone cosmos? I am only going to use the true wireless in ears for casual listening to youtube or sound sources with a similar quaity. The ZMF will be taking care of "serious" music listening. cheers and thanx in advance for your input ...
> 
> PS: I'm not bothering you with "comfort" as I understand this is a very individual issue and subject to try and error ...



I have the WH-1000xm3 headset, and have recently been using TWEs in the $30-50 range. After getting anbes359, astrotec s80, mpow t5, tranya t3 and syllable s101, I would personally recommend anbes 359 (if they still exist), mpow t5 or tranya t3. the s80 sound fine, but the fit of those things still hurt my ears no matter what tip I throw on it, and the s101 just don't sound as good in comparison to all the others. I used to use the wh-1000xm3 for my commute, but prefer the convenience of the smaller TWEs over lugging around a headset.

that said, most of these can be found on amazon. so you can just get it, see if you like the sound and return if you don't.. not that big of a deal with how amazon handles returns heh.


----------



## SilverEars (Aug 5, 2019)

chinmie said:


> what wired iem do you use? if you have a single DD or a not so sensitive IEM, try the BT20S route. i now mainly use it for my EDC (and my trusty Nillkin Go when isolation is not necessary). charging is a bit of a hassle that i cut the rubber flap and put those magnet charger on it, but the battery practically can go a day of use (always on standby and 8 hours of play)


But does it drive the DD iems as hard as more powerful amps out there?  And like I stated, it's how hard DD being driven that matters.  This is why those weak amps in the earpieces do not do the drivers justice.  This is the primary imprtance of driver sound quality next to tuning, not codecs.  Codecs starts to come into play once all the essentials are established.

I have some dynamic driver iems that take a bit juice to drive.  A phone can't drive it well, so a weak amp inside thes earpieces will not drive them well.

This is the TW bottleneck in SQ.


----------



## Spamateur (Aug 5, 2019)

Got the Nuarl NT01AX in this weekend and have spent some time listening to them, including roughly 4 hours straight this afternoon while working. Thanks to everyone who recommended them, as SQ-wise they're my favorite TW IEM so far after a couple days of ownership. They sound great: very smooth, detailed and natural without any glare or sibilance. They're definitely a warmer sound signature and actually sound a bit darker than the Mavin Air-X, but in a way that doesn't take away from resolution. They're also more controlled from the mids through the treble, and make the Mavin sound just a touch grainy and splashy in comparison. Finally, the Nuarls convey a good sense of space (better than nearly any other TW IEM from memory except maybe the MTW and XM3), and are seductive to listen to in a way that reminds me of a really good tube amp.

My only complaints so far:

1) The case feels cheap and flimsy. The plastic is really thin and the seams and joints are all a bit rough and uneven. With my case, the charging port is just barely misaligned with the cutout in the case, so I have to be aware of that when plugging the charging cable in so that the angle is right. There are no magnets to hold the earpieces in place for charging, so you rely on the lid to press them down into the case. It makes me wonder if the earpieces themselves will eventually show some scuffing as it closing the lid on them feels somewhat forced. However, the earpieces themselves are quite nice and materials feel more on the premium side compared to the case.

2) I don't quite understand what the little rubber wings are for. I've tried both large and smaller sizes and they literally do nothing to stabilize them in my ears since they're located on the top of the earpieces, and don't really coordinate to any part of my ear.

3) Fit is a little odd. The Spinfit tips that were included are useless because they're so short and small in diameter. I have some Spinfit CP100z tips on the way, so hopefully they'll be an improvement. The stock "fitted" tips work better for me, but I find them hard to insert without getting a weird "plunger" or vacuum feeling, and I have to fiddle with them a bit to get them seated just right. Once they're in the right position they don't require any more futzing, so this is a relatively minor complaint.

All in all, these are keepers without a doubt. I really love how these IEMs sound and I think they're priced quite well at $160. Without even venturing into the respective feature sets, I'd pick these over the XM3 or MTW on the basis of sound alone.


----------



## CocaCola15

d3myz said:


> I just returned 7 sets of TWS' this week to Amazon.  No ban, but like @hifi80sman, I too buy so much stuff from amazon, they'd probably be losing a small chunk of change if they banned me.


Funny you say that. I once got a "return one more thing and we will cancel your account" email. I put on my indignant pose and called customer service. I have been a Prime member since day one (2005) and an Amazon member since 1998. I called and got prickly (two ways to go with CSRs), within reason. Told the person to check my order history. Came back on, not only apologized but gave me a $50 credit on my next purchase (I mentioned Walmart and others in my complaining). Win! It was right after I sent back a $1,000 pair of Westone W60s. Anyway, my view is a computer popped out that warning, but Amazon is not gonna mess with their shopaholics!


----------



## snip3r77

phiemon said:


> Unfortunately, I cannot find it here in Germany.


Don’t worry
Wait for rev 2
It won’t be for Long


----------



## C_Lindbergh

actorlife said:


> They are online on ebay ohoh: https://www.ebay.com/itm/KZ-T1-TWS-...552116?hash=item2ad153bbb4:g:7hwAAOSwsKddOBK~



Was super interested until i saw the terrible battery life... 3 hours in mid 2019?!


----------



## chinmie

SilverEars said:


> But does it drive the DD iems as hard as more powerful amps out there?  And like I stated, it's how hard DD being driven that matters.  This is why those weak amps in the earpieces do not do the drivers justice.  This is the primary imprtance of driver sound quality next to tuning, not codecs.  Codecs starts to come into play once all the essentials are established.
> 
> I have some dynamic driver iems that take a bit juice to drive.  A phone can't drive it well, so a weak amp inside thes earpieces will not drive them well.
> 
> This is the TW bottleneck in SQ.



it drives my IEMs plenty loud to me. i also never have any problems with not enough volume with my TWSs. 
just curiousa and so we are on the same page, when you mention more powerful amps that drives better: what kind of difference are you referring to? let's say for a scenario you take one IEM, and plug it to a phone and then a powerful amp, what kind of difference in sound does the more powerful amp produce? when talking about power do you mean the gain increase, and not just a volume increase?


----------



## SilverEars (Aug 5, 2019)

chinmie said:


> it drives my IEMs plenty loud to me. i also never have any problems with not enough volume with my TWSs.
> just curiousa and so we are on the same page, when you mention more powerful amps that drives better: what kind of difference are you referring to? let's say for a scenario you take one IEM, and plug it to a phone and then a powerful amp, what kind of difference in sound does the more powerful amp produce? when talking about power do you mean the gain increase, and not just a volume increase?


If you have some experience with full-sized headphones with amps, you'd understand that loudness doesn't mean well driven.  Given dynamic drivers are harder to drive than more efficient BA drivers, their sound quality improves quite a bit from strong amping.

Even from a typical PC headphone out with Realtek chip, drives the dynamic drivers quite well that you get a much tighter response, and better defined response. It's obvious when they are not well driven, but people may shrug it off like they are just bad sounding iems, until you driven them well.  Cheap dynamic drivers like $5 Sony MH755 or AKG Samung iem response makes a world of a difference if driven harder.  These are all dynamic drivers.  These Realtek onboard sound cards or ordinary stuff you'd find on pretty much most PCs motherboards out there.

Reason why dynamic drivers responds so well to them is due to strong output, and also the fact that dynamic drivers have a linear impedance response (unlike BA drivers), so even if the onboard sound card output impedance is a good amount, the frequency response doesn't change like BA drivers would.  This is one of the benefits of dynamic drivers, but the negative is that they require greater power than the much more efficient BA drivers.  If you are ok with Laptop or PC Realtek sound cards, no need to pay a lot for a DAP for a dynamic drive iem.


----------



## Mouseman

C_Lindbergh said:


> Was super interested until i saw the terrible battery life... 3 hours in mid 2019?!


They're running a BA and a DD, so that's hitting the battery life a lot. Hopefully the reality is a little better, we'll see.


----------



## gibletzor

hifi80sman said:


> Me again.  Just ordered the "Ayake Silver O5" which basically looks like the Mifo O5 Pro (BA version) for $51 w/ coupon.  I had the Mifo O5 standard version and found it to be a bit too warm for my taste.  Hopefully, this really is the BA version and the listing photos aren't bogus.



I saw this earlier today.  What leads you to believe it's the BA version?  I don't see anything that says that.  I'm not trying to say you're wrong, but to maybe learn something I didn't  know or see before.  Everything in the description sounds like the Mifo O5 standard, unless I missed something.  If it is the BA version, I might pick it up as I've never used a BA IEM before.  That would be a killer deal though, being $30 cheaper than the Mifo standard right now on Amazon!


----------



## Caipirina (Aug 5, 2019)

Mouseman said:


> They're running a BA and a DD, so that's hitting the battery life a lot. Hopefully the reality is a little better, we'll see.



Also, keeping those blue LEDs blinking every 3 seconds must cost battery



Personally I don't have an issue with the 3h, but I have other TWE I can use for longer sessions. For those looking for 'the one', I see how this could be a deal breaker.

(Started battery test 20 mins ago, but not sure I can finish it as I might have to skedaddle in 2h or so and won't be around to wait for the end)


----------



## FYLegend

WesennTony said:


> Pre-ordered WF-1000xm3 from Best Buy, should be shipped by next Monday. Finger crossed.
> Watch some Chinese videos comparing WF-1000xm3 with Libratone Track Air+. Seems Sony sounds better, while Air+ more comfortable to wear, and head to head for ANC.


Hmm, Totallydubbed just posted his review (not posting it here, as he got a shady history on Head-Fi), saying Sony is better for ANC, but Air+ has better sound (bass not as deep as Sony but better-controlled). He called it the "definition of true wireless buds."


----------



## Caipirina

KZ T1 battery test at 50% 

3h in and THIS is the level indicator in iOS right now: 


 

looks promising  (The 65% is the phone battery, NOT the TWE)


----------



## actorlife

Caipirina said:


> KZ T1 battery test at 50%
> 
> 3h in and THIS is the level indicator in iOS right now:
> 
> ...


Dang possibly 4.50 hr battery looks 30% at 3hrs. Egag must order. Wait you're almost homeless better wait.


----------



## Caipirina

Aaaaaaand the result of my highly scientific battery test on the KZ T1, I started at 7:04 local time.

 

at 50% volume I got the first message 'battery low' after 4h08min. After that it kept repeating every minute, rendering any further listening time useless   I did not wait for final shut off, but according to product description:


----------



## igorneumann

Caipirina said:


> Aaaaaaand the result of my highly scientific battery test on the KZ T1, I started at 7:04 local time.
> 
> 
> 
> at 50% volume I got the first message 'battery low' after 4h08min. After that it kept repeating every minute, rendering any further listening time useless   I did not wait for final shut off, but according to product description:



Im doing about the same "scientific" test... also wanna try a call to check mic quality.
Is it the best sounding TWS you have?


----------



## Caipirina

igorneumann said:


> Is it the best sounding TWS you have?



Right now it feels like it ... but I am very cautious before I make such a statement. Let's for now just say that I have not experienced this kind of audio bliss since when I first checked out the Bose SSF ... i have not done any A/B checks with other TWS ... but I'd say that as much as I enjoy the Mpow and the Tranya as bassy EDM style great for running (and sweatproof) buds, the KZ T1 take a slight step back on the bass, seemingly more refining it and then layer over that a lot of wonderful BA detail in the highs (maybe also mids, still not done much listening on that) 

Also impressed that right of the box I got perfect fit with those 'pacifier grade silicone ear tips'


----------



## bedlamite

Time to hand in my audiophile card? iBasso IT03s on the TRN BT-20s. Connection is rock solid and the BT20s are pretty much transparent. I haven't done a comparison between wired/wireless yet, but used in an outdoor environment, any sonic differences are almost negligible.


----------



## thusStyles

What would people recommend for a basshead/good subass iem for mostly dnb/house? Currently got the tranya t3 which has really nice subass but the mids are lacking a bit and the highs are slightly too much for me at times. Currently looking at the KZ T1 and NT01AX


----------



## C_Lindbergh

Caipirina said:


> Aaaaaaand the result of my highly scientific battery test on the KZ T1, I started at 7:04 local time.
> 
> 
> 
> at 50% volume I got the first message 'battery low' after 4h08min. After that it kept repeating every minute, rendering any further listening time useless   I did not wait for final shut off, but according to product description:



Did you find 50% volume loud enough? Actually these looks pretty good, might as well buy them and keep them for 1-2 years until the market matures and the big guys get their act together, there's always something that's a deal breaker for me when I look at the more expensive options from Sony, Sennheiser etc. Then I might as well pay a small fee right now and accept the few short comings and wait for more options.


----------



## hifi80sman

gibletzor said:


> I saw this earlier today.  What leads you to believe it's the BA version?  I don't see anything that says that.  I'm not trying to say you're wrong, but to maybe learn something I didn't  know or see before.  Everything in the description sounds like the Mifo O5 standard, unless I missed something.  If it is the BA version, I might pick it up as I've never used a BA IEM before.  That would be a killer deal though, being $30 cheaper than the Mifo standard right now on Amazon!


Go to the 3rd product image, where it says “Full Frequency Moving Iron Speaker Driver Unit” right beside a photo of a BA.
https://www.amazon.com/Ayake-Headphones-Waterproof-Cancelling-Auto-Pairing/dp/B07KY9P9BM


----------



## gibletzor

hifi80sman said:


> Go to the 3rd product image, where it says “Full Frequency Moving Iron Speaker Driver Unit” right beside a photo of a BA.
> https://www.amazon.com/Ayake-Headphones-Waterproof-Cancelling-Auto-Pairing/dp/B07KY9P9BM


I guess I just don't know enough to differentiate headphone parts like that yet.  Thanks!


----------



## Caipirina

C_Lindbergh said:


> Did you find 50% volume loud enough? Actually these looks pretty good, might as well buy them and keep them for 1-2 years until the market matures and the big guys get their act together, there's always something that's a deal breaker for me when I look at the more expensive options from Sony, Sennheiser etc. Then I might as well pay a small fee right now and accept the few short comings and wait for more options.



That really depends on the recording I guess ... there were some that I found too loud at 50% ... but so far I find myself often at 60% up to 75% for more mellow classic recordings / OSTs


----------



## igorneumann

Caipirina said:


> Right now it feels like it ... but I am very cautious before I make such a statement. Let's for now just say that I have not experienced this kind of audio bliss since when I first checked out the Bose SSF ... i have not done any A/B checks with other TWS ... but I'd say that as much as I enjoy the Mpow and the Tranya as bassy EDM style great for running (and sweatproof) buds, the KZ T1 take a slight step back on the bass, seemingly more refining it and then layer over that a lot of wonderful BA detail in the highs (maybe also mids, still not done much listening on that)
> 
> Also impressed that right of the box I got perfect fit with those 'pacifier grade silicone ear tips'



I can confirm the 4+ hours battery life (also around 50% volume.)

Turned it on at 8h11m "battery low" at 12h35m




C_Lindbergh said:


> Did you find 50% volume loud enough? Actually these looks pretty good, might as well buy them and keep them for 1-2 years until the market matures and the big guys get their act together, there's always something that's a deal breaker for me when I look at the more expensive options from Sony, Sennheiser etc. Then I might as well pay a small fee right now and accept the few short comings and wait for more options.



Yes, 50% volume was enough for me.


----------



## actorlife

Caipirina said:


> Aaaaaaand the result of my highly scientific battery test on the KZ T1, I started at 7:04 local time.
> 
> 
> 
> at 50% volume I got the first message 'battery low' after 4h08min. After that it kept repeating every minute, rendering any further listening time useless   I did not wait for final shut off, but according to product description:


I guess 4hrs is OK. I think the price should be lowered though to $30. I appreciate you doing the battery test. Man I'm so curious about them sniff sniff hold yourself together AL.


----------



## actorlife

igorneumann said:


> I can confirm the 4+ hours battery life (also around 50% volume.)
> 
> Turned it on at 8h11m "battery low" at 12h35m
> 
> ...


Gracias por hacerlo. ✌️


----------



## igorneumann

More news on the KZ T1, finally tested its Mic and... Its bad.

I guess we cant have everything. Its usable in a quiet environment but expect to hear a lot of "what?" if you have any backgroumd noise.


----------



## igorneumann

actorlife said:


> Gracias por hacerlo. ✌️



Also, as usual on KZs, once you got the "low battery" message expect it each 5 seconds so, not usable at all.


----------



## actorlife

igorneumann said:


> Also, as usual on KZs, once you got the "low battery" message expect it each 5 seconds so, not usable at all.


Yep the Syllable S101 does the same thing until it turns itself off.


----------



## Mouseman

I think I actually prefer that nagging, as opposed to 2 of my sets that chime once or maybe twice within a very short period (like 10 seconds) and shut off. At least the irritating messages give you some warning.


----------



## C_Lindbergh

igorneumann said:


> More news on the KZ T1, finally tested its Mic and... Its bad.
> 
> I guess we cant have everything. Its usable in a quiet environment but expect to hear a lot of "what?" if you have any backgroumd noise.



Oh well, for the price I'm not that upset, if the SQ is awesome. 

I just ordered them as well, hopefully they'll serve me well until there's more viable option. 

I was really thrilled for the new Sony until i found out they lack so many features like any IP rating, volume control gesture, APTX LL etc.


----------



## actorlife

Mine says low battery a couple of times on most of my TWS then shuts off.


----------



## actorlife

C_Lindbergh said:


> Oh well, for the price I'm not that upset, if the SQ is awesome.
> 
> I just ordered them as well, hopefully they'll serve me well until there's more viable option.
> 
> I was really thrilled for the new Sony until i found out they lack so many features like any IP rating, volume control gesture, APTX LL etc.


Sony is a joke they just milk products without certain functions then they add or take them away later. I love their stuff don't get me wrong, but still.


----------



## Bartig

First minutes:
- Weird controls (how come volume up and next song are on opposite sides?)
- The medium and the big tips both don't have a very tight fit
- The volume settings are way too rough. Either it's too loud or too soft for critical listening.


----------



## actorlife

Bartig said:


> First minutes:
> - Weird controls (how come volume up and next song are on opposite sides?)
> - The medium and the big tips both don't have a very tight fit
> - The volume settings are way too rough. Either it's too loud or too soft for critical listening.


Congrats. How do they compare to the ZST once you get a good fit?


----------



## igorneumann (Aug 6, 2019)

Bartig said:


> First minutes:
> - Weird controls (how come volume up and next song are on opposite sides?)
> - The medium and the big tips both don't have a very tight fit
> - The volume settings are way too rough. Either it's too loud or too soft for critical listening.



Wait is one side volume and the other change songs in yours?
Mine is 2 taps next song and 3 taps volume up.

I never got the 2 taps right so 3 taps is out of question for me.


----------



## igorneumann (Aug 6, 2019)

actorlife said:


> Congrats. How do they compare to the ZST once you get a good fit?



Just compared for you, and the difference is bigger than I thought, we arent there yet.

Used the old crappy sbc adapter for a fair comparison and the ZST is better in almost everything, more and deeper bass, but a bit slower, treble is more recessed (and it feels like it has a bit less details, with a little worse instrument separation) in the T1 also, as I suspected the T1 has a less pronounced V curve. ZST also has a wider soundstage.

I guess is the small amplifier, feels like it lacks enough power to get the best from the drivers.

Anyways, it still sounds fantastic for a TWS (and better than a cheap wired such as Piston) but still isnt in the same league of the ZST.

It was also nice to remember how good the ZST still sound even with the crappy BT adapter.


----------



## Bartig

igorneumann said:


> Wait is one side volume and the other change songs in yours?
> Mine is 2 taps next song and 3 taps volume up.
> 
> I never got the 2 taps right so 3 taps is out of question for me.


Yes, that's the control scheme. It just feels weird: increasing the volume but ’decreasing’ a track on the same side. 

I'm used to it already... but indeed, it's hard to triple tap.


----------



## clerkpalmer

igorneumann said:


> Just compared for you, and the difference is bigger than I thought, we arent there yet.
> 
> Used the old crappy sbc adapter for a fair comparison and the ZST is better in almost everything, more and deeper bass, but a bit slower, treble is more recessed (and it feels like it has a bit less details, with a little worse instrument separation) in the T1 also, as I suspected the T1 has a less pronounced V curve. ZST also has a wider soundstage.
> 
> ...



You are saying an $18 iem beats the T1 in sq?  Ugh.


----------



## igorneumann

clerkpalmer said:


> You are saying an $18 iem beats the T1 in sq?  Ugh.



Well, Im saying a $18 iem beat any TWS I tried so far, the Whizzer TP1, the TFZ X1, the Sabbat E12, all of them more expensive than the T1.

But T1 is the closest and sounds very good.

I could be biased because I love the ZST as it was the iem that made me find out about chi-fi in general and head-fi.

Maybe I need to go the TRN BT20 route.
Anyone knows if the bt20s worth the extra cost?


----------



## Luchyres

FunctionalDoc said:


> I debating to go with a  $50 model:
> Mpow T5
> 
> More expensive ones:
> ...



Hello @FunctionalDoc !

Did you end up reaching a decision for this debate? 

I just received my Sony WF-1000XM3 - and they're going back. I realize I don't care about ANC, DSEE HX (sounds digitalized), - for me I care about Sound Quality* (personal taste), Call Quality, Portability, Battery Life - in that order. 

I waited a good long time for the Sony's - and I think sound-wise the lack of LDAC/AptX and too small of a driver (6mm) is what's holding them back. The case is also virtually unusable - everything is well designed, but I wouldn't feel comfortable throwing them in a pocket. 

So now, the itch is back - and I'm toying with getting the mpow T5 or the Nuarl NT01AX - I also have Sony EX--800ST as a main IEM. I was considering this new KZ T1 - but it sounds as though the call quality may be pretty rough - so we'll see what the next revision brings about. 

I may offer more detailed thoughts on the Sony xm3's if people want them - but it was a pretty quick decision for me.


----------



## rhsauer

Mouseman said:


> I think I actually prefer that nagging, as opposed to 2 of my sets that chime once or maybe twice within a very short period (like 10 seconds) and shut off. At least the irritating messages give you some warning.



And the Syllables last 10 hours for me — so low battery warnings aren’t too much of an issue.


----------



## FunctionalDoc

Luchyres said:


> Hello @FunctionalDoc !
> 
> Did you end up reaching a decision for this debate?
> 
> ...


I bought the T5's on Amazon lighting Dale for $36 and they are great for the price. I bought and returned the Nural's because of the fit and I expected more dynamic sound for $160 . 

Trying to get the new Aviot's from Japan that have a 9mm DD and 2 BA'$. I also tried the 1Mores and their connection for wasn't great and limited playback volume. 

Still looking for better sound .


----------



## Luchyres

FunctionalDoc said:


> I bought the T5's on Amazon lighting Dale for $36 and they are great for the price. I bought and returned the Nural's because of the fit and I expected more dynamic sound for $160 .
> 
> Trying to get the new Aviot's from Japan that have a 9mm DD and 2 BA'$. I also tried the 1Mores and their connection for wasn't great and limited playback volume.
> 
> Still looking for better sound .



Well dang, I just ordered the Nuarl... I guess we'll see. 

What model # is this forthcoming Aviot? Didn't love the look of things I saw in their Amazon web store, but a 9mm DD sounds intriguing...

Thanks!


----------



## FunctionalDoc

Luchyres said:


> Well dang, I just ordered the Nuarl... I guess we'll see.
> 
> What model # is this forthcoming Aviot? Didn't love the look of things I saw in their Amazon web store, but a 9mm DD sounds intriguing...
> 
> Thanks!


It is AVIOT Hybrid Driver True Wireless Earphones TE-BD21f . It is about $200 not the overpriced $650 on US Amazon seller.


----------



## nlowran

I got the earfun free's and they fit the bill for me!


----------



## clerkpalmer

FunctionalDoc said:


> It is AVIOT Hybrid Driver True Wireless Earphones TE-BD21f . It is about $200 not the overpriced $650 on US Amazon seller.



Where are these available for $200? Exciting that hybrid is coming to tw.


----------



## howdy

What's people thoughts on the Mavin Air x? They still peak my interest.


----------



## gibletzor

Got my Mpow T5s in today...  and HOLY MOLY these things are ridiculous!  It's like my Aukey T10s, but everything is....  cleaner?  That's the best word I can think of.  The Aukeys sound really good but the T5 is just more refined in just about every way.  I love them!  And one of my only pet peeves with the T10 is only being able to use the right earbud if you only want to use one at a time.  I love being able to do either with the Mpow!

Are there any 3rd party eartips that are similar to the stock ones that come with the T5s?  These are way more comfortable than the stock Aukey eartips.


----------



## Caipirina

FunctionalDoc said:


> It is AVIOT Hybrid Driver True Wireless Earphones TE-BD21f . It is about $200 not the overpriced $650 on US Amazon seller.




Ooooooh, those look interesting! Maybe I can check them out when I am in Japan end of the year (they let you try IEM & TWS in store, cleaning them nicely after each customer)

By then KZ might have proceeded cramming 2DD and 4BAs into their TWS


----------



## Spamateur

howdy said:


> What's people thoughts on the Mavin Air x? They still peak my interest.



You know I'm an Air-X fan, but I recently got the Nuarl NT01AX on the advice of some other folks in here. I've had them for a few days and I gotta say... I like the Nuarl even better from a sound quality standpoint.


----------



## chinmie

igorneumann said:


> Maybe I need to go the TRN BT20 route.
> Anyone knows if the bt20s worth the extra cost?



between my BT20S and BT20, i did a test using the same IEM (Hisenior BT5+ multi BA configuration) :

the BT20S have lots more volume: 30% on BT20S is roughly about 50% volume on the BT20
but because (maybe) the higher volume, the BT20S also has a slightly more base noise /hiss. I'd say the BT20 has a barely audible noise while it's about 5% hiss on the BT20S
the BT20 is about 1 or 2 seconds faster to turn on and off than the BT20S
the BT20S pairs together more easily. the BT20 needs about 5 cm proximity to each other when turning on to pair, while the BT20S can pair together even when I'm using it on my ears. 
the battery is obviously a lot longer on the BT20S, although to be fair, i rarely (if ever) encounter low battery on the BT20. 
connection is also more stable on the BT20S than the already good BT20 
the mic sound (tested with Voice Recorder App): my voice sound closer and fatter relative to the ambient noise compared to the BT20 
the buttons on the BT20S is more clicky feeling
the matte finish on the BT20S is nicer looking, nicer to hold, and less prone to scratch compared to the BT20 glossy look. 
for me personally, I'd say it's worth it. but maybe if you have a more sensitive IEMs, the older BT20 might be a better consideration. 

i really wish TRN let me adjust the volume from the unit


----------



## FYLegend (Aug 7, 2019)

Got my replacement "Anbes" UFO rebrand (which has an unnamed case this time and english instructions) and Jabees Firefly Pro. Impressions forthcoming, but this time around I'm "fully charging them first" just as a precauction whether that caused the defect or not.


----------



## igorneumann

Luchyres said:


> Hello @FunctionalDoc !
> 
> Did you end up reaching a decision for this debate?
> 
> ...



WAIT WHAT?
Sony was being painted here as the 8th wonder of modern times...

Am I a bad person for being happy with it as I cant afford it?

No love for the KZ T1?

GREAT SQ, Bad call quality, good portability, so-so battery life.


----------



## Bartig

igorneumann said:


> WAIT WHAT?
> Sony was being painted here as the 8th wonder of modern times...
> 
> Am I a bad person for being happy with it as I cant afford it?
> ...


Oh, I have love for the KZ T1 alright.


----------



## Slater

chinmie said:


> between my BT20S and BT20, i did a test using the same IEM (Hisenior BT5+ multi BA configuration) :
> 
> the BT20S have lots more volume: 30% on BT20S is roughly about 50% volume on the BT20
> but because (maybe) the higher volume, the BT20S also has a slightly more base noise /hiss. I'd say the BT20 has a barely audible noise while it's about 5% hiss on the BT20S
> ...



1 more difference to add:

BT20 has the problem when you plug it in to charge, about 50% of the time it pushes the circuit board into the housing (which jams the control button until the board is pulled back out). It is very irritating.

The BT20S solves this problem.


----------



## chinmie

Slater said:


> 1 more difference to add:
> 
> BT20 has the problem when you plug it in to charge, about 50% of the time it pushes the circuit board into the housing (which jams the control button until the board is pulled back out). It is very irritating.
> 
> The BT20S solves this problem.




 

that's why we put this on our BT20s


----------



## Audiokuluttaja

So went on and bought the KZ T1 after reading the comments here. SQ is much more important to me than the functions as I mainly listen to long mixes and do not need to fix volume/tracks etc. and I rarely talk on the phone with my Sony WH-1000XM3's either so in that sense the bad talking sq which someone has mentioned does not weigh too much on my choice of TWE's.

Let's see how they are when they arrive. As long as they connect, stay connected and SQ is as good as mentioned here I am happy for that 38€ price.


----------



## igorneumann

Audiokuluttaja said:


> So went on and bought the KZ T1 after reading the comments here. SQ is much more important to me than the functions as I mainly listen to long mixes and do not need to fix volume/tracks etc. and I rarely talk on the phone with my Sony WH-1000XM3's either so in that sense the bad talking sq which someone has mentioned does not weigh too much on my choice of TWE's.
> 
> Let's see how they are when they arrive. As long as they connect, stay connected and SQ is as good as mentioned here I am happy for that 38€ price.



PLase add a comparison between both when you receive it.
Im hella curious to know how it stacks against the big boys.


----------



## Audiokuluttaja

igorneumann said:


> PLase add a comparison between both when you receive it.



will do.


----------



## actorlife

igorneumann said:


> No love for the KZ T1?


I'm excited about the T1, but can't afford it right now. Tight budget.  I wish someone in the US would buy them and lend me them. Don't worry I'll use my own tips. I guess for now I'll live through you guys comments. ✌️❤️There is another T1 cool long review on the KZ thread.


----------



## Mouseman

I've decided that I need to get my Mpows replaced, thankfully I got them on Amazon. The issue I posted about before about not auto-pairing seems to be a problem with the charging pins on the right-side bud. When I drop it in the case, it won't charge -- I have to nudge it up and then the lights change. My guess is that the board is in the wrong spot, kind of like what @Slater was talking about above, or the pins are bent, or something. This is the first TWS unit I have that has 4 pins per bud, I'm wondering if that's part of the problem. It seems like with 2 pins they always manage to connect somehow, but maybe I've been lucky. Has anyone else had this issue with the Mpows or another bud with multiple sets of charging pins?


----------



## actorlife

Bartig said:


> Oh, I have love for the KZ T1 alright.


Looking forward to your review. Is it a 4 or 5 star? Are they better than the mpow or Anbes?


----------



## FYLegend (Aug 7, 2019)

*Air UFO BE30 First Impressions*

- Case has no branding. Slightly redder tint than Coolhere UFO. Lights are white but less yellow, instead with a subtle tint of red and blue.
- Has awful, excessive, voice messages compared to Coolhere. On initial pairing "Primary... Secondary... Your headset is connected", followed by a stretched "maximummm volumeee" which happens EVERY time you crank these up to max volume.
- Seems warmer-sounding than the Coolheres but considering those sounded like the EQ had gone wrong with bass and treble cranked up, take this comparison with a grain of salt. No more bass imbalance but MAYBE the left bud has more treble than the right. If that's really the case it's still better than bass as I think treble imbalances can be partly fixed by shoving foam or removing filters.  Regardless, it has a relatively neutral sound with good bass impact, but it hasn't really "wowed" me as when I first heard the Coolhere UFO (bass imbalance aside).

Also, as other users have said here, the volume controls JUST DON'T WORK. It was hold 4s for the Coolhere UFO, but this new batch holding it too long powers off the buds, and too short goes to the next/previous track. double tap on either button goes to Google Assistant, while holding goes next/previous track with a creepy "forward" or "reverse" voice message.

I'll give the Air UFO some time, but at the moment I have the Firefly Pro glued to my ears...

*Jabees Firefly Pro First impressions*
- Case is large with a similar girth to the ill-fated Earfun Free, except dimensions are reversed (taller than it is fatter). Wireless charging works through my 10W power bank, but not my Samsung Fast Charging stand, which is diagonal. One odd quirk is that while the charging case lights up green with high battery, it turns turquoise when being charged, so I'm not not sure if will actually show charging progress. The other LED on the right just shows red to say you are charging the case.
- Case has Type C connector, but only supports Type C to A charging. Not a big deal for my ecosystem, but YMMV.
- Button controls feel rather finicky - small buttons that will moved your seal around when pushed. On the plus side, they don't driver-flex when I push the buttons like the UFOs or Earfun Free. What's more annoying is the high-pitched long beep when switching tracks.
- Fun V-shaped sound with bass emphasis and metallic treble. Sub-bass is deep, but the midbass does rumble a bit too much. Reminds me of my brief audition with the original Firefly, but MAYBE more refined (Jabees told me the SQ is not much different between the two). It amplifies some of the clicking piano artifacts found in Chillhop piano beats (eg. DJ Okawari and Kenichiro Nishihara). Soundstage is a tad small but has good separation and depth.  SBC and AAC sound pretty similar but I will need to run more tests to be sure.
- Isolation is decent but a bit underwhelming even though the seal seems quite good (stock tips are wide-bore but there are some flat-fat tips similar to Jabra 65t included as well). Ambient sound works but has a VERY slight delay, and amplifier taps and fingersnaps which sound delayed ever so slightly. Also hisses a fair bit too. It's still very usable though.
- They connect/disconnect only if the lid is shut down with them in the case. This is not terrible but there is a time period between when the lid is shut and the buds actually shutting down. Also, what happens if your lid breaks?
- It's by no means perfect, but I think we got ourselves a Jabra 65t/Galaxy Buds killer.


----------



## supertx2

chinmie said:


> that's why we put this on our BT20s


Great idea, paint the tip black and no one will notice  , do they work while charging?


----------



## actorlife

FYLegend said:


> *Air UFO BE30 First Impressions*
> 
> - Case has no branding. Slightly redder tint than Coolhere UFO. Lights are white but less yellow, instead with a subtle tint of red and blue.
> - Has awful, excessive, voice messages compared to Coolhere. On initial pairing "Primary... Secondary... Your headset is connected", followed by a stretched "maximummm volumeee" which happens EVERY time you crank these up to max volume.
> ...


Good reviews. Are you in the US? I forget.


----------



## Slater

chinmie said:


> that's why we put this on our BT20s



Exactly


----------



## Barusu Lamperouge

chinmie said:


> that's why we put this on our BT20s



What are those metal shields? From where can I buy them? Please pardon my ignorance


----------



## supertx2

Dani157 said:


> What are those metal shields? From where can I buy them? Please pardon my ignorance


They should be the tips from magnetic cables, you can find  micro usb magnetic cables easily on amazon


----------



## actorlife

Lightning sale. Anyone have these?
Anker Soundcore Liberty Neo, Bluetooth Earbuds, Graphene Drivers, Pumping Bass, Secure Fit, Bluetooth 5.0 Headphones, Stereo Calls, Noise Canceling, Easy Pairing, Sweatproof for Sports, Work Out, Gym 5-6 battery https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07MCGZK3B/ref=cm_sw_r_sms_apa_i_K4VsDbAXG7CYF


----------



## C_Lindbergh (Aug 7, 2019)

FYLegend said:


> *Air UFO BE30 First Impressions*
> [
> -
> I'll give the Air UFO some time, but at the moment I have the Firefly Pro glued to my ears...
> ...



Wow, so many features fur such a relatively low price, you got USB C, Ambient Mode, Wireless charging, Decent battery Life, Fast Charging, and every control available (Sony....).

What's the excuses of the big companies to launch expensive products without these features?


----------



## actorlife

C_Lindbergh said:


> What's the excuses of the big companies to launch expensive products without these features?


They want you to keep buying their stuff as they refine it and add stuff that they know people want. Like the company Sony.


----------



## chinmie

supertx2 said:


> Great idea, paint the tip black and no one will notice  , do they work while charging?



I'm planning to cover it with some black carbon stickers i have lying around, just haven't got the time to do it. the BT20S shuts off when charging



Dani157 said:


> What are those metal shields? From where can I buy them? Please pardon my ignorance



yup, just like @supertx2 said, it's magnetic charging cable. i use this adapter type ones so i can use it with the BT20S splitter cable


----------



## Barusu Lamperouge

supertx2 said:


> They should be the tips from magnetic cables, you can find  micro usb magnetic cables easily on amazon





chinmie said:


> I'm planning to cover it with some black carbon stickers i have lying around, just haven't got the time to do it. the BT20S shuts off when charging
> 
> 
> 
> yup, just like @supertx2 said, it's magnetic charging cable. i use this adapter type ones so i can use it with the BT20S splitter cable



Okay thanks for your help! Will surely look purchasing a pair. Looks nifty. Do they anyway impact waterproofing/resistance? Planning to buy one for my BT20S


----------



## igorneumann

Mouseman said:


> I've decided that I need to get my Mpows replaced, thankfully I got them on Amazon. The issue I posted about before about not auto-pairing seems to be a problem with the charging pins on the right-side bud. When I drop it in the case, it won't charge -- I have to nudge it up and then the lights change. My guess is that the board is in the wrong spot, kind of like what @Slater was talking about above, or the pins are bent, or something. This is the first TWS unit I have that has 4 pins per bud, I'm wondering if that's part of the problem. It seems like with 2 pins they always manage to connect somehow, but maybe I've been lucky. Has anyone else had this issue with the Mpows or another bud with multiple sets of charging pins?



I had this issue with the Sabbat E12, had to twist a bit clockwise one of the buds to charge... It solved by itself.


----------



## MacedonianHero

In case anyone is interested, I'm selling my almost new Sennheiser Momentum True Wireless:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/sennheiser-momentum-true-wireless-earbuds-mint-condition.912532/

Thinning down the herd so to speak, so my loss is your gain. Please PM me if you're interested.


----------



## actorlife

MacedonianHero said:


> In case anyone is interested, I'm selling my almost new Sennheiser Momentum True Wireless:
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/sennheiser-momentum-true-wireless-earbuds-mint-condition.912532/
> 
> Thinning down the herd so to speak, so my loss is your gain. Please PM me if you're interested.


Whoa good deal. Man even though I can't afford to get them I've love to hear them one day. I wish you luck with your sale. Even those will go fast and the condition looks minty like new.


----------



## MacedonianHero

actorlife said:


> Whoa good deal. Man even though I can't afford to get them I've love to hear them one day. I wish you luck with your sale. Even those will go fast and the condition looks minty like new.



They sound really good; but that's to be expected from Sennheiser. In the end, I just don't have the time to listen to them. They only have about 2 hours on them. I'll end up using my NC700s for flights instead.


----------



## thusStyles

Anyone here tried/used the Audio Technica ath-cks5tw?


----------



## FunctionalDoc

clerkpalmer said:


> Where are these available for $200? Exciting that hybrid is coming to tw.


Amazon Japan when convert Yen to dollars around $220  .


----------



## actorlife (Aug 7, 2019)

thusStyles said:


> Anyone here tried/used the Audio Technica ath-cks5tw?


I'm curious as well. Not sure if anyone here has them as of yet. I bit expensive for my taste.


----------



## clerkpalmer

FunctionalDoc said:


> Amazon Japan when convert Yen to dollars around $220  .


Too risky absent reviews.


----------



## hifi80sman

gibletzor said:


> Got my Mpow T5s in today...  and HOLY MOLY these things are ridiculous!  It's like my Aukey T10s, but everything is....  cleaner?  That's the best word I can think of.  The Aukeys sound really good but the T5 is just more refined in just about every way.  I love them!  And one of my only pet peeves with the T10 is only being able to use the right earbud if you only want to use one at a time.  I love being able to do either with the Mpow!
> 
> Are there any 3rd party eartips that are similar to the stock ones that come with the T5s?  These are way more comfortable than the stock Aukey eartips.


I've been using some low-profile tips, I think the ones that came with my Sabbat E12.  They fit nicely and make the T5 stick out less.


----------



## hifi80sman

actorlife said:


> Lightning sale. Anyone have these?
> Anker Soundcore Liberty Neo, Bluetooth Earbuds, Graphene Drivers, Pumping Bass, Secure Fit, Bluetooth 5.0 Headphones, Stereo Calls, Noise Canceling, Easy Pairing, Sweatproof for Sports, Work Out, Gym 5-6 battery https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07MCGZK3B/ref=cm_sw_r_sms_apa_i_K4VsDbAXG7CYF


I had them.  Fun, lots of bass, especially sub-bass, and crisp highs.  Typical "exciting" V sound.  I ended up returning them because mine had a driver imbalance (one side louder than the other).  I would definitely consider them again, however.


----------



## actorlife (Aug 7, 2019)

hifi80sman said:


> I've been using some low-profile tips, I think the ones that came with my Sabbat E12.  They fit nicely and make the T5 stick out less.


I believe those are the 359 tips, which I like. Edit. Nope I was wrong. They are on my hoopshop W1. They are tips you don't see often.


----------



## FunctionalDoc

clerkpalmer said:


> Too risky absent reviews.


I waiting for reviews before I pull the trigger.


----------



## actorlife

hifi80sman said:


> I had them.  Fun, lots of bass, especially sub-bass, and crisp highs.  Typical "exciting" V sound.  I ended up returning them because mine had a driver imbalance (one side louder than the other).  I would definitely consider them again, however.


I remember their Bluetooth speaker getting alot of praise. Darn darn darn. Must restrain myself.


----------



## BigZ12 (Aug 7, 2019)

hifi80sman said:


> I've been using some low-profile tips, I think the ones that came with my Sabbat E12.  They fit nicely and make the T5 stick out less.


Looks a lot like the Flexfit foam tips I got included when I bought the similar looking Lypertek Tevi. The low profile make a good fit/seal, and as you say it sticks out less.


----------



## actorlife

BigZ12 said:


> Looks a lot like the Flexfit foam tips I got included when I bought the similar looking Lypertek Tevi. The low profile make a good fit/seal, and as you say it sticks out less.


Ya see this review? Looks like they are also available on their website and ship to FL for free. Damn.
http://www.hifiheadphones.co.uk/reviews/lypertek-tevi-true-wireless-earphone-review/


----------



## BigZ12 (Aug 7, 2019)

actorlife said:


> Ya see this review? Looks like they are also available on their website and ship to FL for free. Damn.
> http://www.hifiheadphones.co.uk/reviews/lypertek-tevi-true-wireless-earphone-review/


Yes, I've linked to that review before 

BTW, I am still very satisfied, and I'm using them very often. The only minor issue is there are some connection issues. (it's no dealbreaker though)
The range is not as good as some other BT5.0 TWS I've had. It's not bad at all, but they're not the best in class.
Especially with my Apple Watch I can get a few minor dropouts on a walk/jog. (5-10 in an hour? And just when wearing the watch on the left arm)
Sometimes when they lose connection/get droputs using my iPhone X (if I'm some distance away from it) or Apple Watch, they actually can get out of phase when the connection is 100% again.
Strange and quite annoying. I've experienced it with the Anbes/Tiso/QCY (don't remember which) too but not so often.
A few times, the sound on left bud has stopped working when the connection goes bad and get too many/long dropouts. I have to turn it off and on again to get the sound back on.

Is this similar with the "suspected close relative", Mpow T5?


----------



## BrokeSkoolBoi

TK33 said:


> My understanding is that aptX and aptX LL are different and just because it says aptX does not mean it is low latency.
> 
> May I ask why you are selling?



Well a few things. The case just broke two weeks ago. They disconnect/cut out while I walk occasionally, they discharge from the case for no f'n reason. The call quality is a joke. I can never hear the callers voice at all. The sound signature is passable, but it ain't worth me being out ~200 I can put towards better wired iems. (**** every phone getting rid of aux ports though)

I'm a violinist and being able to listen to orchestral recordings on the go is important to me, sadly this just doesn't cut it. Now I'm trying to sell them here so I'll probably delete this post in a day or two lol.


----------



## chinmie (Aug 7, 2019)

Dani157 said:


> Okay thanks for your help! Will surely look purchasing a pair. Looks nifty. Do they anyway impact waterproofing/resistance? Planning to buy one for my BT20S



it might affect it a little bit. i cut the rubber flap because it was a hassle to charge, and the magnet plug basically closes the hole, but there's some small gaps on the sides. i personally won't use the BT20S in water prone situations, because i have to factor in the IEM and connector itself as not being water resistant. I'd use a full TWS with good IP rating for sport and similar water-risk situasions


----------



## jant71

thusStyles said:


> Anyone here tried/used the Audio Technica ath-cks5tw?



Reviews are all Japanese. think there are some You tube videos though. Not till the fall will it start to be seen internationally and get more English impressions. Saw this pic of the controls. interesting set-up. Not sure if the previous AT's controlled the same way...




Volume only on the left and track control on the right. I wouldn't mind that set-up.


----------



## actorlife

BigZ12 said:


> Yes, I've linked to that review before
> 
> BTW, I am still very satisfied, and I'm using them very often. The only minor issue is there are some connection issues. (it's no dealbreaker though)
> The range is not as good as some other BT5.0 TWS I've had. It's not bad at all, but they're not the best in class.
> ...


All these TWS have issues, but for me I know that and just enjoy them especially if the SQ is good. I only get connections issues if I walk away. I think they should try to improve the antennas so no issues for walking away 30 ft or more. Most of them say 30 ft but more like 15-20 ft.


----------



## hifi80sman (Aug 7, 2019)

BigZ12 said:


> Yes, I've linked to that review before
> 
> BTW, I am still very satisfied, and I'm using them very often. The only minor issue is there are some connection issues. (it's no dealbreaker though)
> The range is not as good as some other BT5.0 TWS I've had. It's not bad at all, but they're not the best in class.
> ...


I haven't tried them, but they appear to be very similar with only minor physical alterations.  However, I will say that not all "clones" are actually identical clones.  Some use the same shell from the same OEM/ODM, but use different internals, which is akin to selecting different upgrades/options on the same make/model of a car.  Some may use the Realtek SoC, while others will prefer the more costly, but superior Qualcomm SoC, yet the physical appearance is similar.  Price aside, the MPOW T5 is very good as a TWS, but when you factor in price, it's probably the best all-around performer in the range.


----------



## gibletzor

hifi80sman said:


> I've been using some low-profile tips, I think the ones that came with my Sabbat E12.  They fit nicely and make the T5 stick out less.


Would you happen to know where to find some like that?  I don't see any on Amazon and google pretty much just gives results that are reviews of different kinds of earbuds. I've got M Spiral Dots on them know now but they almost go TOO deep.  They sound great though!


----------



## actorlife (Aug 7, 2019)

^^
Darn this is the only pair I found seems to be sold out everywhere. If you don't mind buying these they have the tips you need + SQ is darn good for the price.

https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https://www.ebay.com/ulk/itm/193034522596
Or
https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https://www.ebay.com/ulk/itm/273955058212


----------



## gibletzor

actorlife said:


> ^^
> Darn this is the only pair I found seems to be sold out everywhere. If you don't mind buying these they have the tips you need + SQ is darn good for the price.
> 
> https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https://www.ebay.com/ulk/itm/193034522596
> ...



Dang!  I'll keep looking around.  Really don't want to buy a whole headset just to get the tips!  lol


----------



## chinmie

gibletzor said:


> Would you happen to know where to find some like that?  I don't see any on Amazon and google pretty much just gives results that are reviews of different kinds of earbuds. I've got M Spiral Dots on them know now but they almost go TOO deep.  They sound great though!



i bought similar tips from AE
https://m.aliexpress.com/item/32974296232.html


----------



## gibletzor

chinmie said:


> i bought similar tips from AE
> https://m.aliexpress.com/item/32974296232.html


I was just going through AE!  Thanks!  Worth a try for a couple bucks!


----------



## clerkpalmer

Got my KZ T1 here today in the US.  Going to hold off on sq impressions until I’ve had more time with them. Was listening to my edition xx immediately before popping them in and that’s just not a fair fight. 

Quality seems decent. Fit is very comfortable. The volume issue is real. Even with my iPhone slider it goes from too quiet to too loud. Nothing in the middle. Does anyone have a solution for this? Seems hard to have been overlooked.


----------



## Caipirina

Looking fwd to possibly getting my Nillkin Go today. Ordered on Aug 1, according to tracking they arrived in Sri Lanka already on Aug 6 and left 'inward office' after just 2h ... did not show up at wife's office yesterday .. so .. today? That would still be crazy fast, bit over a week. (and yes, I ordered that funky strawberry red color ... just to mix things up)


 

My fear is now that after the KZ T1 everything pales in comparison.


----------



## clerkpalmer

Caipirina said:


> My fear is now that after the KZ T1 everything pales in comparison.



How are you dealing with the volume? Mine go from soft to ear splitting with no in between.


----------



## Caipirina

clerkpalmer said:


> How are you dealing with the volume? Mine go from soft to ear splitting with no in between.



I have no problem when adjusting volume manually on iPhone ...   only when I triple tap on the bud directly it seems to have fewer steps between the levels


----------



## clerkpalmer

Caipirina said:


> I have no problem when adjusting volume manually on iPhone ...   only when I triple tap on the bud directly it seems to have fewer steps between the levels


Weird. My slider is about about 65 percent and it’s quiet. Small changes to the slider do nothing and then eventually at about 80 percent it gets really loud.


----------



## Inear

Lenovo HT10 has Qualcomm-ApTX HD for $42.99

Currently on sale Gearvita with coupon: LHT10AU

https://gearvita.com/lenovo-ht10-tws-earphone.html?sscid=81k3_7vzji


----------



## assassin10000

Ended up modding 1 pair of my BT20S' after damaging them yesterday.



assassin10000 said:


> Well, managed to kill the sound out of one of my BT20S last night while rotating the connector around, as I had done on my old pair of BT20. I did this for use with mmcx earbuds and possibly IEM's like a Nicehck DT100, mmcx modded sony mh755 &/or moondrop crescent.
> 
> Old BT20:
> 
> ...


----------



## FYLegend (Aug 8, 2019)

Some odd quirks about the Firefly Pro:
Directly facing the sun outdoors, the ambient sound mic feed of the right bud abruptly cuts off with a clunking sound inside the bud, and immediately resumes when I move around. Passive isolation with the default tips wasn't the best at a coffee shop - could still clearly hear coffee machines and people talking. With music playing, they sound fine, remains tight and punchy in these situations while Jabra 65t sounds almost non-existent on a train.
The left button seems more clickable than the right one. There is volume control, but pushing volume up too short will cause the music to pause as well. Holding too long and the volume just keeps going.
SBC seems decent in sound, but is also more prone to some distortion and crackling. Then again, this might be a fault of my Zenbook pro, as even Jabra 65t is showing failing connection recently. EDIT: It is happening with my Note 9 as well. These need AAC to sound good without any distortion!

You can use either bud in mono mode, but only the left bud can be used to activate ambient sound, while triple-tapping the right bud will trigger Google Assistant.


----------



## mikp

Inear said:


> Lenovo HT10 has Qualcomm-ApTX HD for $42.99
> 
> Currently on sale Gearvita with coupon: LHT10AU
> 
> https://gearvita.com/lenovo-ht10-tws-earphone.html?sscid=81k3_7vzji




no aptx hd there


----------



## riodgarp

is there any eartips that can reduced vacuum feel from mifo without modifying ?


----------



## falang

mikp said:


> no aptx hd there


 What do you mean?  States it pretty clearly in the store description and the Lenovo marketing layout.


----------



## Caipirina

Coming back to the pebble looking Whizzer T2, that @chinmie pointed out a while back ... back then I scoffed at the 57$ price tag ... but last night I came across one and then several other shops selling the same at less than half, while Whizzer official still sticks to 57$ (they are the only one with orders and 1 five-star review, the others have 0 orders) ... at 25$ those might be more interesting for some ... I like the look!


----------



## BigZ12

Inear said:


> Lenovo HT10 has Qualcomm-ApTX HD for $42.99
> 
> Currently on sale Gearvita with coupon: LHT10AU
> 
> https://gearvita.com/lenovo-ht10-tws-earphone.html?sscid=81k3_7vzji


https://www.qualcomm.com/products/qcc3020
Qcc3020 does not support AptX HD, "only" AptX.


----------



## FYLegend (Aug 8, 2019)

actorlife said:


> Good reviews. Are you in the US? I forget.


Canada!


mikp said:


> no aptx hd there


If Lenovo's really behind it I'd take their word for it, but the noise reduction is implying these have ANC which seems rather dubious at this price point. A lot of ChiFi brands make that claim when they are referring to passive isolation and noise cancellation of microphones for calling!


falang said:


> What do you mean?  States it pretty clearly in the store description and the Lenovo marketing layout.


The brochure looks like an Aliexpress listing... I would have expected they announce it more formally. Not that it might not be official though.

Nokia has one upcoming as well,  https://www.nokia.com/phones/en_int/nokia-true-wireless-earbuds


----------



## falang (Aug 8, 2019)

BigZ12 said:


> https://www.qualcomm.com/products/qcc3020
> Qcc3020 does not support AptX HD, "only" AptX.



Ok, HD is a higher level of AptX and this Lenovo's Qualcomm chip is not compatible.  Got ya.  What a mess that is. TWS is such a mess.  One of my least favourite things to do is to scan a TWS product's marketing page for it's specs .  You need to be Sherlock (or _Homelander_) just to find single usage time, let alone all this codec business.  I guess if you know the chip and what it supports, that is simple, but I'm not at that level yet.

EDIT: The Mpow T5 has the QC3020 and claims to have AptX HD support. Huh?
EDIT # 2: On Aliexpress, the Mpow T5 marketing material image says AptX HD, but below it, it just claims AptX in the spec chart.  Hahaha.  What a mess.


----------



## gibletzor

falang said:


> Ok, HD is a higher level of AptX and this Lenovo's Qualcomm chip is not compatible.  Got ya.  What a mess that is. TWS is such a mess.  One of my least favourite things to do is to scan a TWS product's marketing page for it's specs .  You need to be Sherlock (or _Homelander_) just to find single usage time, let alone all this codec business.  I guess if you know the chip and what it supports, that is simple, but I'm not at that level yet.
> 
> EDIT: The Mpow T5 has the QC3020 and claims to have AptX HD support. Huh?
> EDIT # 2: On Aliexpress, the Mpow T5 marketing material image says AptX HD, but below it, it just claims AptX in the spec chart.  Hahaha.  What a mess.



They're saying it has the HD codec AptX, but stating it in a way that is wrong, but makes it sound better than it is.  But it's not "technically wrong" because it does support the HD codec AptX.  So they're not liable for the misunderstanding 
When something actually has AptX HD, they'll almost always list AptX and AptX HD in the specs.  Like this.


----------



## Bartig

FYLegend said:


> *Air UFO BE30 First Impressions*
> 
> - Case has no branding. Slightly redder tint than Coolhere UFO. Lights are white but less yellow, instead with a subtle tint of red and blue.
> - Has awful, excessive, voice messages compared to Coolhere. On initial pairing "Primary... Secondary... Your headset is connected", followed by a stretched "maximummm volumeee" which happens EVERY time you crank these up to max volume.
> ...


Funny. Nothing in your description of the Jaybees says ’Jabra killer’ to me.


----------



## david8613

igorneumann said:


> WAIT WHAT?
> Sony was being painted here as the 8th wonder of modern times...
> 
> Am I a bad person for being happy with it as I cant afford it?
> ...




wait wait, are you saying the mpow t5 sound better than the new sony xm3?


----------



## igorneumann

david8613 said:


> wait wait, are you saying the mpow t5 sound better than the new sony xm3?



NO, Im asking it.


----------



## clerkpalmer

Anyone in the us looking for basically brand new Sony’s, I’ll do 210 shipped for mine to avoid the hassle of a Best Buy return.


----------



## Caipirina (Aug 8, 2019)

Sooo, I received my Nillkin GO and first impressions are overall positive, but I have a few questions for other owners:
- so far I had to manually turn them on when taking out of the case and also manually turn off before putting back in (otherwise music would keep playing in closed case) ... this could be because the charging case was pretty low on battery? The buds seemed like 70% full according to iOS ...
 (just found the hastily discarded manual and it seems to confirm this, no auto-turning on / off ... I can live with that)
- there is no indicator light on the buds themselves that indicate charging? According to manual the buds should glow red ... hmm .. maybe they were still 100% .. but i listened for like 20 minutes ... should recharge ... i do hope they recharge, otherwise I have a problem ...

I love how tiny the case is (see compared to KZ T1 case) .. and that strawberry / coral red is a nice change from all that black.



Even the spare eartips match the color!




The fit is great (with the largest tips) and I can nicely jam them up my earhole  The SQ overall would put them in my above average pile, possibly Tier 2 or even tier 1 (let me double check, did I count them up or down?)  .. but that needs further testing ... they are NOT as detailed sparkly as the KZ, but they do have nice bass. With IPX5 they should make for some nice running buds.

Last bit: refreshing to hear a different female voice doing all the alert messages

Edit: me silly goose! Found the problem with the 'non'-charging: A tiny piece of tape/film over the contacts for protection .. which I had seen on many other buds before, but here, because of the color and my failing eyesight I did not see them. Now i get to witness something new as well: There are not only LEDs on the buds to indicate charging in process, but also at the rear of the case. Nice!


----------



## joshnor713

clerkpalmer said:


> Anyone in the us looking for basically brand new Sony’s, I’ll do 210 shipped for mine to avoid the hassle of a Best Buy return.



How is a BB return a hassle? Isn't it more of a hassle to pack them up and ship them?


----------



## clerkpalmer

joshnor713 said:


> How is a BB return a hassle? Isn't it more of a hassle to pack them up and ship them?



I can pack and ship from my office in 10 minutes versus driving to best buy for a return.  And while best buy doesn't really hassle over returns they do ask if anything was wrong and then they ask if you want to shop and then there is the whole too many returns thing.  So basically, for me, losing $40 is simpler than the return.  But, it's not really that big of a deal to return them no.


----------



## Boreaquis

Caipirina said:


> Sooo, I received my Nillkin GO and first impressions are overall positive, but I have a few questions for other owners:
> - so far I had to manually turn them on when taking out of the case and also manually turn off before putting back in (otherwise music would keep playing in closed case) ... this could be because the charging case was pretty low on battery? The buds seemed like 70% full according to iOS ...
> (just found the hastily discarded manual and it seems to confirm this, no auto-turning on / off ... I can live with that)
> - there is no indicator light on the buds themselves that indicate charging? According to manual the buds should glow red ... hmm .. maybe they were still 100% .. but i listened for like 20 minutes ... should recharge ... i do hope they recharge, otherwise I have a problem ...
> ...



First things first: did you remove the plastic covering the charger input on each earbud? If that's still in place, it would explain why they don't charge. The red charging indicators on the case definitely work on mine.

As far as I can tell, they turn off automatically when you put the lid on. It also turns on when you remove the lid, but I've noticed that I have to turn them on manually occasionally, probably depends on how deftly you remove the lid, due to the case mechanism.

I did just test, and the buds stayed connected and kept playing in the case. However, turns out my case was out of battery. When I connected it to the charger and tried again, they turned automatically when put in the case.

And yes, I'm really enjoying these for running


----------



## Caipirina

Boreaquis said:


> First things first: did you remove the plastic covering the charger input on each earbud? If that's still in place, it would explain why they don't charge. The red charging indicators on the case definitely work on mine.



i JUST finished editing my post AFTER I 'discovered' those little contact preservers  ... they were really hard to spot against the red background color!


----------



## Boreaquis

Caipirina said:


> i JUST finished editing my post AFTER I 'discovered' those little contact preservers  ... they were really hard to spot against the red background color!



I'll admit, it took me a few minutes to spot those myself. That should hopefully fix yours not turning off automatically when put in the case as well.


----------



## Caipirina

Boreaquis said:


> I'll admit, it took me a few minutes to spot those myself. That should hopefully fix yours not turning off automatically when put in the case as well.



Yes, it does ... poor buds had no chance of detecting they were back in the box with the contacts all taped over.


----------



## oiac320

Hey, I've been a lurker for a while in the thread and lately I've been searching for an alternative to my KZ bluetooth cable driving my IEMs.

Is the KZ T1 really that good of a IEM? I've had bad experiences with them, namely the ZS5's V2 version hitting right when I bought them and the bluetooth cable not delivering apt-X even though it was clearly mentioned in the user manual. So I take their products with a heavy grain of salt. 

Back in the thread I read about the Edifier TWS5 which seemed like good alternative, but I couldn't find reviews neither here (maybe I did search incorrectly) and on Google. Since Im not much of a IEM collector, I came here to ask what did you guys think about it. 

Also, what about the QCC5000 series of chipsets from qualcomm? Looks like there are no TWS being shipped with them or am I looking in the wrong places?


----------



## hifi80sman

clerkpalmer said:


> Anyone in the us looking for basically brand new Sony’s, I’ll do 210 shipped for mine to avoid the hassle of a Best Buy return.


No volume controls, eh?


----------



## SuperLuigi

Boreaquis said:


> First things first: did you remove the plastic covering the charger input on each earbud? If that's still in place, it would explain why they don't charge. The red charging indicators on the case definitely work on mine.
> 
> As far as I can tell, they turn off automatically when you put the lid on. It also turns on when you remove the lid, but I've noticed that I have to turn them on manually occasionally, probably depends on how deftly you remove the lid, due to the case mechanism.
> 
> ...



Can I ask if you've used the microphone at all for calls? I think I'm going to make these my first Truewireless purchase and just wanted to know about mic quality.  Thanks!


----------



## Slater

oiac320 said:


> Is the KZ T1 really that good of a IEM? I've had bad experiences with them, namely the ZS5's V2 version hitting right when I bought them and the bluetooth cable not delivering apt-X even though it was clearly mentioned in the user manual. So I take their products with a heavy grain of salt.



https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-3095#post-15111655


----------



## clerkpalmer

hifi80sman said:


> No volume controls, eh?



Not sure.  I usually just use my phone.


----------



## Boreaquis

SuperLuigi said:


> Can I ask if you've used the microphone at all for calls? I think I'm going to make these my first Truewireless purchase and just wanted to know about mic quality.  Thanks!



I've used them for calls a few times, but I can't really say anything about the mic quality, as I obviously couldn't hear myself.


----------



## igorneumann

oiac320 said:


> Hey, I've been a lurker for a while in the thread and lately I've been searching for an alternative to my KZ bluetooth cable driving my IEMs.
> 
> Is the KZ T1 really that good of a IEM? I've had bad experiences with them, namely the ZS5's V2 version hitting right when I bought them and the bluetooth cable not delivering apt-X even though it was clearly mentioned in the user manual. So I take their products with a heavy grain of salt.
> 
> ...



You really shouldnt judge KZ by the ZS5 v2 and their bluetooth adapters... I dont like any of them.

The T1 soumds great, the worst problem being the jumpy volume.


----------



## oiac320

igorneumann said:


> You really shouldnt judge KZ by the ZS5 v2 and their bluetooth adapters... I dont like any of them.
> 
> The T1 soumds great, the worst problem being the jumpy volume.



Hey, thanks for the answer. 

Indeed, they do have nice products, I had a ATE as a cheap IEM for a while and they were quite nice for the price. My problem with them is in a more ethical point of view.

I bought the ZS5 when there was only V1 and quietly they released V2 which unluckily was what I got and which was clearly a worse product without any consideration of costumers looking for the popular IEM that was V1.

The bluetooth cable was also quite unethical since it was clearly labeled as Aptx and while there were early reports of it not working I trusted the manual and thought it was a minor production problem. 

That's why I'm taking their new product with a bit of care and not buying too much into the hype. 

But anyways. So far it's been good reports from the T1, thanks for the input!


----------



## FYLegend (Aug 8, 2019)

Bartig said:


> Funny. Nothing in your description of the Jaybees says ’Jabra killer’ to me.


Well for me, it's the fact it has USB type C, Wireless charging which the Jabra doesn't have, but still has an ambient sound mode, which other budget options don't have (any news on price for Mifo O4?). Well it's a shame about the distorted, crackling SBC which is odd because AAC is generally more prone to disconnects and these have been very solid with AAC. If only there was one with AptX as well...

Any recommendations for a USB AAC Bluetooth 5.0 receiver for Windows?


----------



## gibletzor

UPS brought me this today:

Waiting for it to charge so I can test it.  No indication on the packaging if it's the BA version or DD version.


----------



## chinmie (Aug 8, 2019)

Caipirina said:


> Sooo, I received my Nillkin GO and first impressions are overall positive, but I have a few questions for other owners:
> - so far I had to manually turn them on when taking out of the case and also manually turn off before putting back in (otherwise music would keep playing in closed case) ... this could be because the charging case was pretty low on battery? The buds seemed like 70% full according to iOS ...
> (just found the hastily discarded manual and it seems to confirm this, no auto-turning on / off ... I can live with that)
> - there is no indicator light on the buds themselves that indicate charging? According to manual the buds should glow red ... hmm .. maybe they were still 100% .. but i listened for like 20 minutes ... should recharge ... i do hope they recharge, otherwise I have a problem ...
> ...



give it a few playing time hours, and the treble grain will smoothen out. also for me it works optimally when i put the phone volume at around 80% and adjust the volume to listening level from the unit.

my favorite eartips that I use and think sounds best with them is the tennmak /KZ whirlwind, as it can go quite flush with the nozzle and can still fit in the charging case




this still is my current top/favorite TWS, and seeing your red one, now I'm struggling to hold  myself back from buying another one 

I'm currently listening to this new song with the Nillkin 



as well this last couple of days re-listening their older albums


----------



## Spamateur

I've been loving the Nuarl NT01AX's sound for the past few days, but I've found that the Bluetooth connection to my Pixel 3 XL has been less than stellar. The range isn't very good compared to my Air-X, and even when sitting directly in front of me on my desk I'll experience occasional skips or dropouts. They happen often enough to be frustrating, although they're not frequent either. In any case, I'll probably end up returning these as these are the first TW IEMs with Bluetooth 5 that I've had this issue.  

FWIW, I found the Spinfit CP100z tips fit great on the Nuarl and provide the best sound. I was able to get some Comply foam tips to work, but they made the sound far too bassy and muddy.

It's a shame about the connection issues. The Nuarl really do sound nice to the point where I prefer them to the Mavin Air-X.


----------



## hifi80sman

gibletzor said:


> UPS brought me this today:
> 
> Waiting for it to charge so I can test it.  No indication on the packaging if it's the BA version or DD version.


So, I got mine and no, it's not the BA version.  Driver flex alone in the right earpiece confirms that.  Also, the call quality was described to me as "atrocious", so aside from the false advertisement, they are useless for business.  The case is great and they actually sound pretty good when I EQ out some of the 400Hz flab and push the low-treble region (2kHz-4kHz) a bit.  Even with the false advertisement, if the call quality was good and there wasn't any annoying driver flex (or it was at least consistent on both sides or none at all), then I'd probably keep them for the $51 I got them for.


----------



## gibletzor

hifi80sman said:


> So, I got mine and no, it's not the BA version.  Driver flex alone in the right earpiece confirms that.  Also, the call quality was described to me as "atrocious", so aside from the false advertisement, they are useless for business.  The case is great and they actually sound pretty good when I EQ out some of the 400Hz flab and push the low-treble region (2kHz-4kHz) a bit.  Even with the false advertisement, if the call quality was good and there wasn't any annoying driver flex (or it was at least consistent on both sides or none at all), then I'd probably keep them for the $51 I got them for.



That's disappointing...


----------



## hifi80sman

I just ordered these sexy beasts that have a nice metal case.  I admit, I was seduced by the case, so let's hope they sound good!  I couldn't confirm if they support AAC, but let's hope they do!  Even if they don't, if the sound is good enough to EQ, I will probably keep them for a nice gym pair.  I'll leave the case out on display while I lift, tho, bruh.


----------



## hifi80sman

gibletzor said:


> That's disappointing...


If you ONLY care about music and aren't picky about any of the other stuff, I think you'll be satisfied.  They support AAC and EQ well via Spotify/iPhone.


----------



## Slater

hifi80sman said:


> I'll leave the case out on display while I lift, tho, bruh.


----------



## hifi80sman

Slater said:


>


That's me on the right.  Sadly, I came in 2nd.  The other guy became some kind of big shot movie star.  Always telling people to hurry up and get to "the choppa" or something like that.  Crazy person.  So close, yet so far...


----------



## chinmie

if you guys want to try what your TWS microphone sounds like you could download this Bluetooth Voice Recorder app if you're on Android. i found out that out of all my TWS, the Sabbat X12 and the Nillkin Go use quite an aggressive noise gate to block ambient sound, while the BT20S picks up my voice relative to the noise the loudest


----------



## howdy

How's everyone digging the power beats pro? I like the ear hook especially for bike riding so I don't have to worry about losing them.


----------



## clerkpalmer

howdy said:


> How's everyone digging the power beats pro? I like the ear hook especially for bike riding so I don't have to worry about losing them.


Oh they are excellent. Battery life is utterly ridiculous. Tight Bass clean and crisp but fun sounding. Treble can be slightly hot at times. Fit is excellent. Only drawback is isolation but they’re designed that way. I highly recommend them.


----------



## Slater

howdy said:


> How's everyone digging the power beats pro? I like the ear hook especially for bike riding so I don't have to worry about losing them.



Do the Beats have ambient mode? I thought about getting a pair for cycling, but I assumed the ear hook arm things would cause hella wind noise.

I actually went a different direction for bike riding, to a set of Bose Soundwear (recently on sale for half price). After many close calls over the years, I’ve tried many different solutions and was never really happy with any of them. The Soundwears are everything I could have ever hoped for, with regards to maximum situational awareness PLUS good sound.


----------



## howdy

clerkpalmer said:


> Oh they are excellent. Battery life is utterly ridiculous. Tight Bass clean and crisp but fun sounding. Treble can be slightly hot at times. Fit is excellent. Only drawback is isolation but they’re designed that way. I highly recommend them.


What do you mean with the isolation? Do you get a tight seal? When I don't get a tight seal it bothers me like a OCD which is why I bought and sold the MW07 twice. I can understand a not so good isolation as long as the seal is good.


----------



## clerkpalmer

howdy said:


> What do you mean with the isolation? Do you get a tight seal? When I don't get a tight seal it bothers me like a OCD which is why I bought and sold the MW07 twice. I can understand a not so good isolation as long as the seal is good.


Seal is good. Isolation isn’t. Imagine a mix between mw07 and Bose soundsports. I use the large tips. They let some sound in but seal and fit is amazing.


----------



## gibletzor

hifi80sman said:


> If you ONLY care about music and aren't picky about any of the other stuff, I think you'll be satisfied.  They support AAC and EQ well via Spotify/iPhone.



Even if it were ONLY for music, the Mpow T5 sounds better and is more comfortable for less money.  The sound quality on these IS good, but not as good as the Mpow.  I'd rate them pretty equivalent to the Aukey T10 for that.  The connection isn't as strong as either the Aukey or Mpow either.  Several times during an hour walk tonight I'd lose connection in an ear when using the buttons to change songs or volume.  At times I was getting static in the music as well.  Oh well.  It was worth a try!


----------



## openyoureyes

I'm still looking for TWS with multipoint connection. Are there any TWS beside the Jabras with multipoint?

I already tried the Jabra Elite Active 65t. They are nice, but there is noticeable lag in videos/games and the left earpiece has some annoying hiss.


----------



## igorneumann

oiac320 said:


> Hey, thanks for the answer.
> 
> Indeed, they do have nice products, I had a ATE as a cheap IEM for a while and they were quite nice for the price. My problem with them is in a more ethical point of view.
> 
> ...



Well, the V1 was better, but not THAT better.
It was hyped indeed, but all the hype wasnt really deserved.

Get a ZS10Pro a ZSN, a bassy ZS4 or even a ES4, and then take your conclusions... you cant go wrong with those.

All their BT adapters are crap.
The APTX DOES have APTX, but it doesnt work well, in my case it connects at 48Khz and decode at 41Khz... lower pitched sound and cuts at each 4-5 seconds, have to change to 41Khz every time I connect at the developers settings.

Thats why I was so surprised by the T1's rock solid connection.


----------



## Bartig

I just want to love the KZ T1 so, so much. But I can’t. It’s sound quality only.


----------



## Boreaquis

chinmie said:


> my favorite eartips that I use and think sounds best with them is the tennmak /KZ whirlwind, as it can go quite flush with the nozzle and can still fit in the charging case



Got a link to those for me? Preferably AliExpress. I thought I was done buying stuff, but I guess I could be convinced if they're a significant upgrade from the stock tips


----------



## actorlife

Bartig said:


> I just want to love the KZ T1 so, so much. But I can’t. It’s sound quality only.


Thanks I'll wait for the 2nd revision. Hopefully they will fix the volume controls. So these are comparable to the mpow t5. Whoa.


----------



## TK33

Slater said:


> Do the Beats have ambient mode? I thought about getting a pair for cycling, but I assumed the ear hook arm things would cause hella wind noise.
> 
> I actually went a different direction for bike riding, to a set of Bose Soundwear (recently on sale for half price). After many close calls over the years, I’ve tried many different solutions and was never really happy with any of them. The Soundwears are everything I could have ever hoped for, with regards to maximum situational awareness PLUS good sound.



I've been thinking of getting TWS for cycling as well.  Been thinking of picking up the Jabra Elite Active 65t.  Wondering how those would be for cycling (would probably just use the right ear).  Also, does anyone have experience with the new JBL Reflect Flow?


----------



## Bartig (Aug 9, 2019)

TK33 said:


> I've been thinking of getting TWS for cycling as well.  Been thinking of picking up the Jabra Elite Active 65t.  Wondering how those would be for cycling (would probably just use the right ear).  Also, does anyone have experience with the new JBL Reflect Flow?


Good! Low wind noise as far as I tested.

Edit: Sorry, I didn't try the active version, just the ’regular’ Elite.


----------



## howdy

TK33 said:


> I've been thinking of getting TWS for cycling as well.  Been thinking of picking up the Jabra Elite Active 65t.  Wondering how those would be for cycling (would probably just use the right ear).  Also, does anyone have experience with the new JBL Reflect Flow?


I'm selling my Jabra elite active 65t, pm if interested.

This BT is really starting to pick up. This time last year there was so little to choose from and now its hard to decide what to get.


----------



## FYLegend (Aug 9, 2019)

AptX Sabbat E12 is out on Aliexpress, ~130$CAD/100$USD

https://s.click.aliexpress.com/e/5BYPCuu


Another cheaper listing, 114 CAD for E12, new colors of X12 as well:
New Sabbat E12 TWS Bluetooth 5.0 Wireless Headset HiFi Stereo Earbuds Sports Earphones with Fast Charging Case for Running
https://s.click.aliexpress.com/e/bHdTGCpS


----------



## Slater

TK33 said:


> I've been thinking of getting TWS for cycling as well.  Been thinking of picking up the Jabra Elite Active 65t.  Wondering how those would be for cycling (would probably just use the right ear).  Also, does anyone have experience with the new JBL Reflect Flow?



Well, don't get me wrong, I had been using the QCY QS1 for cycling and absolutely loved them. They fit flush in the ear so they're comfortable with helmets, there is virtually zero wind noise (which is horrible on many earphones due to the wind catching certain edges of the shell), and the wireless freedom is something I've been waiting decades for. I had no problems with sweat or the occasional rain storm, although I have no clue what their IPX rating is.

My personal reason for switching to the Soundwear is because I value my life much more than other people apparently value my life. I need 100% open situational awareness when cycling on an open road, and I'm willing to trade great sound quality for it. There's just too many crazies out there. I do still use the QCY QS1 for cycling on closed paths (not 1 ear but both ears).

Speaking of which, like you indicated, I did the 1 ear thing while cycling for a long time (going all the way back to Walkman and Discman days). Sadly (and I have no way to prove this), I am convinced that's why I have mild hearing loss in 1 ear moreso than in my other ear.

Anyways, I'll be curious what TW you decide on and how it works out for you while cycling. Keep us posted


----------



## hifi80sman

Slater said:


> Well, don't get me wrong, I had been using the QCY QS1 for cycling and absolutely loved them. They fit flush in the ear so they're comfortable with helmets, there is virtually zero wind noise (which is horrible on many earphones due to the wind catching certain edges of the shell), and the wireless freedom is something I've been waiting decades for. I had no problems with sweat or the occasional rain storm, although I have no clue what their IPX rating is.
> 
> My personal reason for switching to the Soundwear is because I value my life much more than other people apparently value my life. I need 100% open situational awareness when cycling on an open road, and I'm willing to trade great sound quality for it. There's just too many crazies out there. I do still use the QCY QS1 for cycling on closed paths (not 1 ear but both ears).
> 
> ...


The Bose Soundwear looks like it's been discounted 50% off pretty much everywhere at $149.  Not a bad deal.  A few trials with it were actually quite satisfying for what it was.  I'm tempted to grab one for TV, movies, etc.


----------



## chinmie

Slater said:


> Well, don't get me wrong, I had been using the QCY QS1 for cycling and absolutely loved them. They fit flush in the ear so they're comfortable with helmets, there is virtually zero wind noise (which is horrible on many earphones due to the wind catching certain edges of the shell), and the wireless freedom is something I've been waiting decades for. I had no problems with sweat or the occasional rain storm, although I have no clue what their IPX rating is.
> 
> My personal reason for switching to the Soundwear is because I value my life much more than other people apparently value my life. I need 100% open situational awareness when cycling on an open road, and I'm willing to trade great sound quality for it. There's just too many crazies out there. I do still use the QCY QS1 for cycling on closed paths (not 1 ear but both ears).
> 
> ...



using the Soundwear, it's basically like putting speakers around the neck, right? does the music also sounds loud to other people around you? i personally haven't tried this form factor and a little intrigued 

you might also consider the open earbuds type like Sabbat X12 and similar for alternative, but i reckon the soundwear might deliver bigger bass vibration to the body. 

i also doesn't like wearing single earphone, because it will make me up the volume a bit louder than i usually using two, and (like what you have found) it's dangerous and a higher potential hearing loss on a single ear. I'd rather put both in and dial the volume really low.

i also use the QCY T1C for motorcycle driving, mainly to block wind noise. if i put music on, I'll set it with a low enough volume so i could still hear if i snap my finger outside my helmet. the Nillkin also works great, but with even bigger sound leakage because of the open back nature. i prefer the QCY because it fits my need (wind noise blocking) more


----------



## FYLegend

Sabbat E12 (original AAC version) arrived. Right bud was low on battery and wouldn't pair right away, so they are charging now. Quick impressions are that the right bud seems to be bassier... =/ Either way, after the Firefly Pro, I can't really get why people are calling these bass cannons.

I can also confirm once for all that *Sabbat E12 supports PD charging* (considering Samsung is transitioning to Type C to C cables with the Note 10, this is important!)

Anyone else with the Air UFO BE30 feel like the voice messages are so obnoxious? For example, press + hold changes the track, and there is a voice on the left side saying "forward" or "reverse", which partly interferes with your track on the left channel. Another major difference from Coolhere UFO is that both left or right earbud can be used individually (it will tell you which one is primary/secondary upon removing them from the case). The Coolhere UFO only allows the right bud to be used for mono. Is this different on Anbes 359 or Kissral R18? I feel like the right bud has a bit more mid emphasis, removing/re-adding the filters seems to have balanced it somewhat, otherwise I might try stuffing some foam into the nozzle. Overall it's a neutral sound with good detail retrieval.


----------



## hifi80sman (Aug 9, 2019)

Picked up the "TAGRY" TWS for $39.  All-in-all, I'm satisfied.

PROS
-  Nice brushed metal, quality, premium feeling case.  Similar to the Mifo O5, but lighter with a smaller battery (1,000 mah vs. 2,600 mah).  In the top 20% of cases.
-  Ergonomic, comfortable, low profile fit.
-  Responsive touch controls.
-  Smooth, warm sound via iPhone.  SBC only, but sounds surprisingly good on an iPhone.  A bit of graininess when using my Galaxy s8.  Plays well with EQ via iPhone/Spotify with no distortion.
-  No driver flex.
-  Surprisingly, no sync issues with YouTube (wow), Amazon, or Netflix (tested only on iPhone Xs Max).
-  Actually works well for calls.  I was told I sound loud, clear, with only a hint of reverb.  Nice.
-  For those of you that enjoy blowing your eardrums out, they get very loud.

CONS
-  No AAC or aptX.
-  Not case friendly with most other eartips.  Case will only accept low profile tips, similar to the kind I put on my T5 a few pages back.
-  Annoying beep in the right earpiece when changing tracks or answering a call.
-  Sound is too warm out of the box.  There are some that may enjoy the default sound, but I think most would prefer to EQ.  If you can't or don't want to EQ, you may want to pass if you're not a fan of a warm, laid back signature.


----------



## Slater

hifi80sman said:


> The Bose Soundwear looks like it's been discounted 50% off pretty much everywhere at $149.  Not a bad deal.  A few trials with it were actually quite satisfying for what it was.  I'm tempted to grab one for TV, movies, etc.



Yeah, the sale was from Bose themselves, so it also covered all Bose dealers.

As far as TV/movies, I actually started using it for that too. It is zero latency, with lips synced exactly with the videos. I'm also using them for phone calls in the car. Even on the highway at speed, callers say I sound crystal clear and I can hear them perfectly too.

BTW, I am by no means a Bose fanboy. I think their stuff is overpriced to the moon and overhyped. I own zero Bose products, although in the 90s I had some 301 speakers. I am just impressed by the Soundwear, for the niche it occupies. I am not alone either - Tyll was extremely impressed by it as well, and has a significant amount of information on it on InnerFidelity. He even dissected his just to try and learn it's secrets.


----------



## clerkpalmer

I wish Bose would get those anc soundsport free models out and take my money.


----------



## hifi80sman

Slater said:


> Yeah, the sale was from Bose themselves, so it also covered all Bose dealers.
> 
> As far as TV/movies, I actually started using it for that too. It is zero latency, with lips synced exactly with the videos. I'm also using them for phone calls in the car. Even on the highway at speed, callers say I sound crystal clear and I can hear them perfectly too.
> 
> BTW, I am by no means a Bose fanboy. I think their stuff is overpriced to the moon and overhyped. I own zero Bose products, although in the 90s I had some 301 speakers. I am just impressed by the Soundwear, for the niche it occupies. I am not alone either - Tyll was extremely impressed by it as well, and has a significant amount of information on it on InnerFidelity. He even dissected his just to try and learn it's secrets.


I was impressed by how little someone nearby could (or couldn't) hear.  Never actually thought about the call aspect.  I may have to grab one and walk around the office like a big shot and look down on all those "regular workers" with their corded, stock earbuds.


----------



## hifi80sman

clerkpalmer said:


> I wish Bose would get those anc soundsport free models out and take my money.


Agreed.  After the lackluster feedback on the WF-1000XM3, the new Bose ANC 700 Earbuds (or whatever they're called) are my next major buy.  For now, content sifting thru Chi-Fi offerings for gems.


----------



## chinmie (Aug 9, 2019)

Boreaquis said:


> Got a link to those for me? Preferably AliExpress. I thought I was done buying stuff, but I guess I could be convinced if they're a significant upgrade from the stock tips



here you go

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32808506339.html

i usually remove the inner rib by snipping it with scissors so it would fit better in my ears. it's one of my favorite wide bore tips

o yeah, you could custom order for the size and colors, for instance, i order all in L size and specify how many black, white, and red pair i want, or you could also request all in the same color


----------



## clerkpalmer

hifi80sman said:


> Agreed.  After the lackluster feedback on the WF-1000XM3, the new Bose ANC 700 Earbuds (or whatever they're called) are my next major buy.  For now, content sifting thru Chi-Fi offerings for gems.


I am completely confident Bose will knock it out of the park. I agree Bose can be overrated at times but this should be where they excel.


----------



## hifi80sman

clerkpalmer said:


> I am completely confident Bose will knock it out of the park. I agree Bose can be overrated at times but this should be where they excel.


The SSF are still some of the better sounding TWS' out there.  The only issues I have are connection distance and lack of isolation (even though I know going in they were designed that way).


----------



## clerkpalmer

Further impressions on the T1 are very positive provided sq is your primary interest. These thing sound sweet with excellent clarity and separation. They can get a little congested at times with complicated passages which may have something to do with the bitrate issue. But when things are going well, they sound “wired” to me. You can’t get this kind of sound from a single driver. If they can iron out the compression and volume they are going to have a clear winner on their hands. For now if you want sq approaching the big boys like nuarl, M&D and senns but are on a budget, these are worth it. They also happen to be very comfortable and lightweight. They stay put very well.


----------



## howdy

Talking about Bose, has anyone tried the Bose BT sunglasses?


----------



## TK33

Slater said:


> Well, don't get me wrong, I had been using the QCY QS1 for cycling and absolutely loved them. They fit flush in the ear so they're comfortable with helmets, there is virtually zero wind noise (which is horrible on many earphones due to the wind catching certain edges of the shell), and the wireless freedom is something I've been waiting decades for. I had no problems with sweat or the occasional rain storm, although I have no clue what their IPX rating is.
> 
> My personal reason for switching to the Soundwear is because I value my life much more than other people apparently value my life. I need 100% open situational awareness when cycling on an open road, and I'm willing to trade great sound quality for it. There's just too many crazies out there. I do still use the QCY QS1 for cycling on closed paths (not 1 ear but both ears).
> 
> ...



The Soundwear looks very interesting, especially for late night TV. I may need to check that out, especially at current prices. I have had some older Bose wired earphones over the years and use one in the office to watch stuff on my work pc but have never been able to get a secure fit with them (probably the shape of my ears).  I have also never been a big fan of their sound profile (last pair I bought was because I needed headphones to listen to a Webex and I left my IEMs at home).  This new tech does intrigue me though 

For cycling, I probably will stick with the in ear path and do one ear. I've always done one ear, even when using my wired IEMs and now my MTWs as I like to be aware of my surroundings as I weave through the crowds in NYC. 

I did stop by the Harman store today and they had the Reflect Flow in store. I tried a demo unit and wasn't blown away by the sound but it was very comfortable and even if it has half the advertised battery life (10 hours, 30 total with case) I will be happy. It is also IPX7 and pairing was excellent (paired to my phone and had no problem reconnecting left earbud after i tried going from 2 ears --> 1 ear --> back to 2). To be fair, the tips were not the right size for me on the demo unit (they sterilized for me) so I did not have a good seal and someone else was playing with one of their towers.  Even without the right tips, it felt more secure and comfortable to me than the MTWs.  The other cons are no volume control, no aptX, no app/EQ, the case didn't seem too sturdy (kind of like the Senns) and I think they are Micro USB but these will probably stay in my trunk bag with my other cycling toys so I think I can live with that (for now) for my intended use case.  They handed me a 10% off coupon as I walked in so at $135 + a free pair of Yankee tickets, I am tempted and may give them a shot.

I pulled my back last night so I will probably wait a few weeks so I can take advantage of their 30 day return period but will report back if I do get them


----------



## Cevisi

howdy said:


> Talking about Bose, has anyone tried the Bose BT sunglasses?


Yes they look crapy sound is ok but a bit thin


----------



## Caipirina (Aug 10, 2019)

Bartig said:


> I just want to love the KZ T1 so, so much. But I can’t. It’s sound quality only.



OMG, it never occurred to me that Mifo stands for 'make it fully optimal' ... thanks for opening my eyes!

I need to double check on that volume step issue that so many others are reporting ... I have the same ONLY when I control from the bud... when I control from iPhone 7 Plus, I get all the steps I need ... will double check (checked, and I get it now, only every 3rd click on phone volume button actually changes volume .. )

Thanks for the awesome (as usual) review

Oh, and may I ask where you got the IPX4 from? I could not find any indication of any kind of water / sweat proofing.

Still loving that SQ though


----------



## Boreaquis

chinmie said:


> here you go
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32808506339.html
> 
> ...



Thanks. So is 4mm the correct eartip size to fit the Nillkin Go? I couldn't find it in the spec sheet.


----------



## WesennTony (Aug 10, 2019)

Spamateur said:


> I've been loving the Nuarl NT01AX's sound for the past few days, but I've found that the Bluetooth connection to my Pixel 3 XL has been less than stellar. The range isn't very good compared to my Air-X, and even when sitting directly in front of me on my desk I'll experience occasional skips or dropouts. They happen often enough to be frustrating, although they're not frequent either. In any case, I'll probably end up returning these as these are the first TW IEMs with Bluetooth 5 that I've had this issue.
> 
> FWIW, I found the Spinfit CP100z tips fit great on the Nuarl and provide the best sound. I was able to get some Comply foam tips to work, but they made the sound far too bassy and muddy.
> 
> It's a shame about the connection issues. The Nuarl really do sound nice to the point where I prefer them to the Mavin Air-X.


Yeah, Nuarl are not good at connection. Though I found that if I open the lid of the charging case, wait for "connected" voice comes up and then take them out of the charging case, most of the connection issues can be solved. Still there are times that one side of buds (seems to be the slave side) goes to silence abruptly.
Also I never have problems when paired them with my BT transmitter with AptX codec, while my phone (LG V30) defaults at AAC. Wondering if this also matters.


----------



## SilverEars (Aug 10, 2019)

howdy said:


> Talking about Bose, has anyone tried the Bose BT sunglasses?


They had them on display at best buy.  Very interesting experience because it's like not having anything inside or around your ears, but hearing stuff and thinking the sound is part of he environment due to this.  I would rather get a good set of sunglasses (of personal taste) and a quality iem.  The practicality of it is an issue.  The obvious hurdle is that your ears are open to noise around you.  If try hard enough, you can maybe think of a usage scenario for these?...


----------



## SilverEars (Aug 10, 2019)

clerkpalmer said:


> I am completely confident Bose will knock it out of the park. I agree Bose can be overrated at times but this should be where they excel.


WFXM3 lowered my expectations of Sony, but after trying out QC20, I have high expectation of Bose's ANC capability for iems.  I'm afraid their ANC true wireless will be bulky.  Let's hope they can shrink it down.  I get a feeling Sony made compromise to their ANC to reduce bulk and increase battery life.


----------



## hifi80sman

SilverEars said:


> WFXM3 lowered my expectations of Sony, but after trying out QC20, I have high expectation of Bose's ANC capability for iems.  I'm afraid their ANC true wireless will be bulky.  Let's hope they can shrink it down.  I get a feeling Sony made compromise to their ANC to reduce bulk and increase battery life.


I'm not a research engineer, but I would imaging sticking with a 6mm driver will inherently affect the "oomph" the ANC can produce, versus using a 10mm driver.  Obviously battery life would be an issue, meaning you'd have to use a higher density battery in order to maintain the size, although it'd be a bit heavier and cost more.  They had a target and could only include so much to hit that target whilst still maintaining margins.

That's one area where I think Bose will swing for the fences.  They have a loyal following, great name recognition with the masses, and the ANC experience to make magic happen.  It's possible the delay is not just production related, but also some testing to iron out any kinks.


----------



## clerkpalmer

hifi80sman said:


> It's possible the delay is not just production related, but also some testing to iron out any kinks.



Are they delayed? I think they said early 2020?


----------



## hifi80sman

clerkpalmer said:


> Are they delayed? I think they said early 2020?


Yeah, that's the "delay" I was referring to.  Sony announced, then shipped shortly thereafter.  Bose announced, a couple of seasons pass, then they ship.


----------



## Caipirina

hifi80sman said:


> Agreed.  After the lackluster feedback on the WF-1000XM3, the new Bose ANC 700 Earbuds (or whatever they're called) are my next major buy.  For now, content sifting thru Chi-Fi offerings for gems.



Will also try to hold on to my wallet until those Bose 700 ANC .. i really have enough horses in my stable  

but then again ... 11.11 is coming up ...  and then there's xmas ... whaaaa


----------



## SilverEars (Aug 10, 2019)

hifi80sman said:


> I'm not a research engineer, but I would imaging sticking with a 6mm driver will inherently affect the "oomph" the ANC can produce, versus using a 10mm driver.  Obviously battery life would be an issue, meaning you'd have to use a higher density battery in order to maintain the size, although it'd be a bit heavier and cost more.  They had a target and could only include so much to hit that target whilst still maintaining margins.
> 
> That's one area where I think Bose will swing for the fences.  They have a loyal following, great name recognition with the masses, and the ANC experience to make magic happen.  It's possible the delay is not just production related, but also some testing to iron out any kinks.


What do you mean by "oomp" an ANC can produce?  If you said "oomph" in regards to bass, that would have made more sense to me.

As far as driver diameter size, the amping and thus batter life will be affected.  I do see correlation of dynamic driver performance with the larger diameter drivers, but not sure if it's always the case.  Larger drivers would be problematic for TW for obvious reasons in terms of performance.

I think somebody mentioned driver size and ANC performance, and I wish somebody can provide details on why that is?  Because QC20 is an iem and performs ANC duties very well.


----------



## AtariPrime

hifi80sman said:


> Agreed.  After the lackluster feedback on the WF-1000XM3, the new Bose ANC 700 Earbuds (or whatever they're called) are my next major buy.  For now, content sifting thru Chi-Fi offerings for gems.



Bose does not make a true IEM. Instead theirs sit at the entry to the ear. As such, isolation is impossible. That’s a dealbreaker for me.


----------



## Luchyres

I want to get some quick thoughts out while they're fresh. 

I currently have in my posession: 
Nuarl NT01AX Metallic Black ($160ish) 
Mpow T5 ($45ish)
Anbes 359 (I forget)
Syllable S101

and I appreciate them in that order. The Nuarl are special - I even like that they don't have magnets and physically push the buds into the charging pins - and the sound is engaging, full, detailed - with sub-bass and bass that does not cloud the detail of voices.. I admit I did have to play around with EQ to get the sound I really wanted - but they are comfortable and are very.... simple. They do have some connection hiccups - which may be why I send them back - but otherwise they are the best I've tried for sound (MTW were better, but turned off by bugs/issues and I sent it back) and the Nuarl do quite well for phone calls for me as well.  The case is mall enough to put in my pocket. 

Mpow T5 - Fun sound, very bassy, quite good - though I did not find it as engaging. It is as though the sound was a little more contained and lacked the ability to hit the low-end to give you a send of space below the bassier notes. It's "punchy" - and I have yet to try it for calls - but the IP rating is very interesting to me. 

The Anbes are really just solid - and I'd say the Mpow have more bass - but everyone here knows what a solid, portable, simple set these are. 

Syllable S101 - I like these - but I would have returned them if I could have. My main issue with them is persistent driver flex when putting on/adjusting. The sound is good, if not distinctive. I mainly use them as my "work" TWS to listen to white noise while working or for video calls. 

I have tried and returned: 
Sabbat E12, Tranya T3, Sony WF-1000Xm3, MTW, Mavin Air-X, 

Anyway, interested to see what comes next, and will keep evaluating the current stable.


----------



## Caipirina

AtariPrime said:


> Bose does not make a true IEM. Instead theirs sit at the entry to the ear. As such, isolation is impossible. That’s a dealbreaker for me.



I was exactly where you are now. I strongly believed that proper, tight seal is everything ... but then, 2 summers ago I got into earbuds, which emulate the open back style of over ears and I found some really great ones there with sound I could not believe coming from an 'earbud' (something I had always considered a throw-away freebie coming with cheap players) and vast sound stages. 

As such I approached the Bose offerings again from a different angle and now love the QC20 as well as the SSF ... both having their own Bose house signature SQ, which I like for working out ... I like the fit .. and I am always surprised how the QC20 superbly do ANC, even without a tight fit. 

To each their own, just sharing how my perspective changed once I opened my mind (and my brass ears) 

Coming back to TWS, I do believe the next Bose (700 ANC or whatever the final name will be) will have the exact same 'stay hear' tips, which I like quite some


----------



## rafaelroxalot

Bartig said:


> I just want to love the KZ T1 so, so much. But I can’t. It’s sound quality only.



How about the bass of kz t1 compared to tranya t3?


----------



## dhc0329

I have been using Tranya T3 for over 2 month on a single charge and led on the case still shows 3 bar. 
When is this thing gonna die? Its ridiculous how long this thing can hold the charges. Of course, I have not
been using it every day but around 2.5 hours/2 days per week at gym so about 12 days in two month.


----------



## AtariPrime

Caipirina said:


> I was exactly where you are now. I strongly believed that proper, tight seal is everything ... but then, 2 summers ago I got into earbuds, which emulate the open back style of over ears and I found some really great ones there with sound I could not believe coming from an 'earbud' (something I had always considered a throw-away freebie coming with cheap players) and vast sound stages.
> 
> As such I approached the Bose offerings again from a different angle and now love the QC20 as well as the SSF ... both having their own Bose house signature SQ, which I like for working out ... I like the fit .. and I am always surprised how the QC20 superbly do ANC, even without a tight fit.
> 
> ...




For me the journey was kinda the opposite. I had my first Bose product as a teenager. I trusted that their products were as good as their reputation. But as time went on I listened and learned. Two decades later I understand now that Bose makes an inferior product. Always has. The sound is decent but there are offerings that cost half as much that sound much better. And Bose is constantly trying to tell the consumer what they want. It is a product for people who don’t know how to make decisions for themselves and trust their own ears. I have no interest in passive listening tech or paying too much for a subpar product.


----------



## hifi80sman

AtariPrime said:


> Bose does not make a true IEM. Instead theirs sit at the entry to the ear. As such, isolation is impossible. That’s a dealbreaker for me.


These are what @clerkpalmer and I are talking about and looking forward to testing.
https://gearpatrol.com/2019/05/30/bose-noise-cancelling-earbuds-700/


----------



## Bartig

Caipirina said:


> OMG, it never occurred to me that Mifo stands for 'make it fully optimal' ... thanks for opening my eyes!
> 
> I need to double check on that volume step issue that so many others are reporting ... I have the same ONLY when I control from the bud... when I control from iPhone 7 Plus, I get all the steps I need ... will double check (checked, and I get it now, only every 3rd click on phone volume button actually changes volume .. )
> 
> ...


Oof, where did I find that IP4 rating. I honestly don't know anymore. 



rafaelroxalot said:


> How about the bass of kz t1 compared to tranya t3?


The bass of the T3 is way heavier. Digs deeper too.


----------



## gibletzor

Are there any buds that do the ambient or transparent mode well?  I really wanted the Galaxy Buds before I read some reviews that the sound was meh and the ambient mode was unpleasant to use.  The Jabras seem to be so-so overall.  @FYLegend didn't have very kind things to say about the Firefly Pro.  Is it just immature tech at this point?


----------



## Newrookie1

Help me to choose is there any better than 1more stylish for that price range?


----------



## hifi80sman

gibletzor said:


> Are there any buds that do the ambient or transparent mode well?  I really wanted the Galaxy Buds before I read some reviews that the sound was meh and the ambient mode was unpleasant to use.  The Jabras seem to be so-so overall.  @FYLegend didn't have very kind things to say about the Firefly Pro.  Is it just immature tech at this point?


IMO, the Jabra 65t has the best ambient mode, however, it's still not "natural", which it sounds like you're not a fan of.  That being said, the ambient mode on the Bose 700 Over-Ear Headphones is quite good and surprising natural, so if that's any indication, the Truly Wireless In-Ear 700 model with ANC (release date sometime in 2020) could be a compelling option.  Right now, for ambient mode, the Jabras are likely the best option while still having at least "good" SQ.


----------



## CardigdanWalk

Bartig said:


> I just want to love the KZ T1 so, so much. But I can’t. It’s sound quality only.



Hmm, I just the KZ T1, and quite impressed as my first foray into TWS (even if it does have what feels like 7 different volume settings - I find it sounds best 2nd from max)

But I did just read your review and mentioning the MPow 5 having a better sound?

It’s on sale with 7% off on amazon, but is it really that much of an upgrade over the KZ T1’s?


----------



## KimChee

Seems like he’s saying the T1 isn’t great for taking phone calls and the controls aren’t as nice...I like the way he describes the sound signature of the T1, that’s more up my alley I think.  MPow sounds more detailed and resolving but more balanced...I still haven’t received my T1 yet...hopefully it will arrive soon!



CardigdanWalk said:


> Hmm, I just the KZ T1, and quite impressed as my first foray into TWS (even if it does have what feels like 7 different volume settings - I find it sounds best 2nd from max)
> 
> But I did just read your review and mentioning the MPow 5 having a better sound?
> 
> It’s on sale with 7% off on amazon, but is it really that much of an upgrade over the KZ T1’s?


----------



## FYLegend

gibletzor said:


> Are there any buds that do the ambient or transparent mode well?  I really wanted the Galaxy Buds before I read some reviews that the sound was meh and the ambient mode was unpleasant to use.  The Jabras seem to be so-so overall.  @FYLegend didn't have very kind things to say about the Firefly Pro.  Is it just immature tech at this point?


It's still quite usable, just sounds like a call microphone with some hissing/buzzing. It also increases in volume after resuming from a phone call such that you need to restart it. I've also noticed it briefly cut out on the right side when facing direct sunlight, oddly enough. I have the black version but there is a narrow see through window for the lights. 

JLab Air Executive is another alternative with ambient sound,  as is the upcoming MIFO O4.

I can't get the Sabbat E12 to seal flush in my ears, particularly the left bud. The right bud definitely has more bass, otherwise I'm just not getting the left one sealed properly. If I pull it out partially it sounds more balanced but the fit is not very secure. The sound is more airy and lean than I was expecting.


----------



## jant71

The new SOUL also has an ambient mode and is quite small for $55-ish. https://www.soulelectronics.com/pro...rue-wireless-earphones?variant=29093729337453

Not sure how they are yet though.


----------



## bubsdaddy

SilverEars said:


> They had them on display at best buy.  Very interesting experience because it's like not having anything inside or around your ears, but hearing stuff and thinking the sound is part of he environment due to this.  I would rather get a good set of sunglasses (of personal taste) and a quality iem.  The practicality of it is an issue.  The obvious hurdle is that your ears are open to noise around you.  If try hard enough, you can maybe think of a usage scenario for these?...



I tried them at the Bose store. Virtually no bass but sound ok for what they are. The battery life isn’t good. I need prescription so they were just a curiosity for me.


----------



## bubsdaddy

AtariPrime said:


> For me the journey was kinda the opposite. I had my first Bose product as a teenager. I trusted that their products were as good as their reputation. But as time went on I listened and learned. Two decades later I understand now that Bose makes an inferior product. Always has. The sound is decent but there are offerings that cost half as much that sound much better. And Bose is constantly trying to tell the consumer what they want. It is a product for people who don’t know how to make decisions for themselves and trust their own ears. I have no interest in passive listening tech or paying too much for a subpar product.



I began buying Bose products in the last 2 decades so I am your polar opposite. I like the sound even though I know they equalize the sound. I have run over 1,000 miles using the Bose Sound sport wireless  I purchased for $80 from the Bose outlet store. My Bose outdoor speakers survived hurricane Harvey and are still providing great sound. I don’t fly without taking my Bose noise canceling headphones or earbuds. I also take a Bose Mini Bluetooth speaker when I travel. I think the old cliches about Bose are no longer valid. 

That being said, it’s true that many audio products are available that cost less and sound better. I just don’t think that applies to the products I mentioned above.


----------



## SilverEars (Aug 11, 2019)

bubsdaddy said:


> I tried them at the Bose store. Virtually no bass but sound ok for what they are. The battery life isn’t good. I need prescription so they were just a curiosity for me.


Interesting thoughts.  Now I wonder what's a frequency response of bone conduction transducers.  How would you measure it? lol

Here's one from Rtings with a huge pit in the bass area, the balance overall is terrible.




Remember when earbuds were common?  Since the earbuds didn't isolate so well, the concern was ambient noise level being too much that the listener would turn up the volume to possible hearing damage level (if the ambient noise is loud enough, and I'm sure this can happen during flights with such high engine noise).  Also, you hardly got any low frequencies with those, and airplane cabin noises are pretty significant in the low frequencies, and they can mask other frequencies, so people probably turned them up to dangerous level on the flights.

So, one take away from this is that ANC is useful in certain situations.


----------



## Spamateur (Aug 11, 2019)

AtariPrime said:


> For me the journey was kinda the opposite. I had my first Bose product as a teenager. I trusted that their products were as good as their reputation. But as time went on I listened and learned. Two decades later I understand now that Bose makes an inferior product. Always has. The sound is decent but there are offerings that cost half as much that sound much better. And Bose is constantly trying to tell the consumer what they want. It is a product for people who don’t know how to make decisions for themselves and trust their own ears. I have no interest in passive listening tech or paying too much for a subpar product.



Bose makes a lot of products, and to make a blanket statement that they're universally inferior is a lazy generalization. Sure, they make products which aren't competitive at their price point (I would never buy their speakers), but they also make several that are quite good and/or are best-in-class. They're like any other company in that regard: some hits and some misses. You could make the argument that they have a tendency to overprice their products because of the name on the box, but it's not like they push out crap across the board.


----------



## chinmie

jant71 said:


> The new SOUL also has an ambient mode and is quite small for $55-ish. https://www.soulelectronics.com/pro...rue-wireless-earphones?variant=29093729337453
> 
> Not sure how they are yet though.



based on one of the review, it doesn't have previous track and volume control


----------



## gibletzor

jant71 said:


> The new SOUL also has an ambient mode and is quite small for $55-ish. https://www.soulelectronics.com/pro...rue-wireless-earphones?variant=29093729337453
> 
> Not sure how they are yet though.



These look like a slight upgrade to those for a few more bucks.  https://smile.amazon.com/Soul-Elect...-xs2&qid=1565573149&s=electronics&sr=1-1&th=1

I found a couple reviews on smaller sites, they seem to be pretty favorable.  One said his only problem was the sound was bad with the provided ear tips because he couldn't get a good fit.  Once he put a bigger set on, they sounded great.  V shaped sound signature.  I might try em out!


----------



## TYATYA

Iphone6+B&O E8 2.0 is my choice for wireless sound.
Ip6 is reallllyyy good b.t source than my android smartphones and daps


----------



## Highfiver

gibletzor said:


> Are there any buds that do the ambient or transparent mode well?  I really wanted the Galaxy Buds before I read some reviews that the sound was meh and the ambient mode was unpleasant to use.  The Jabras seem to be so-so overall.  @FYLegend didn't have very kind things to say about the Firefly Pro.  Is it just immature tech at this point?


I guess no one is aware of the non advertised ambient/hear thru mode of the Mifo 05’s that is found in both the standard and professional versions...?


----------



## gibletzor

Highfiver said:


> I guess no one is aware of the non advertised ambient/hear thru mode of the Mifo 05’s that is found in both the standard and professional versions...?


Even if it does have it, which even the manual mentioned nothing about, I hated the tiny buttons and pressing them sometimes caused the right side to disconnect.  I already sent them back to Amazon.


----------



## ChickenButcher

Highfiver said:


> I guess no one is aware of the non advertised ambient/hear thru mode of the Mifo 05’s that is found in both the standard and professional versions...?



may I ask how to activate the ambient mode on the mifo o5? I have the pro version, but i didn't know it has this feature...


----------



## igorneumann

Bartig said:


> I just want to love the KZ T1 so, so much. But I can’t. It’s sound quality only.



Dunno, the only real bad bug is the volume for me, as I dont care about the mic.


----------



## Tavleen Suri

how come no one mentions the B & O buds on this forum. Are they really that bad lol ??


----------



## rulerofrecords

Witchcraft!! After reading about 300 pages of this thread I ordered the MpowT5. Intention - usage with Macbook air for youtube etc. 
The tws arrived today and my expectations were as low as possible. Pairing was easy and what can I say - for what I want them to do - they work surprisingly good. No noticeable latency, they play louder than my Sony WH-1000XM3 and it is even no shame or pain to do hires tidal. As for lack of comparison (I will not drag my ZMF Eikons into this) I will not comment on the sound - other than they are great fun if not just a little rough around the edges when pushed hard. I'm just stunned as to what is possible for the money in such a tiny device. Must be Witchcraft!
However - the real test is yet to come: How comfortable are they after let's say 3 hours in my ears. Here is my question - what would be the most comfortable aftermarket eartips for the MpowT5. thanx for any advise.


----------



## clerkpalmer

Tavleen Suri said:


> how come no one mentions the B & O buds on this forum. Are they really that bad lol ??



No but they are old tech with good but not great sound and they are expensive. They aren’t very compelling at this point.


----------



## webvan

SilverEars said:


> WFXM3 lowered my expectations of Sony, but after trying out QC20, I have high expectation of Bose's ANC capability for iems.  I'm afraid their ANC true wireless will be bulky.  Let's hope they can shrink it down.  I get a feeling Sony made compromise to their ANC to reduce bulk and increase battery life.



Interesting that you've used both the QC20 and the WFXM3, I only have experience with the QC20 and while I liked them I sent them back due to the low perceived added value compared to the cheap but effective TaoTronics EP-01. Some reviews have compared the ANC of the QC20 and the WFXM3 and concluded they were nearly as effective...That sounds good until you realize the QC20 is not an "insertion IEM" so without ANC it blocks practically zero noise. On the other hand the WFXM3 ARE "insertion IEMs"...at least when coupled with Comply tips so ANC is not going to be adding much isolation in that case and maybe let you think it is not very effective.


----------



## Tavleen Suri

clerkpalmer said:


> No but they are old tech with good but not great sound and they are expensive. They aren’t very compelling at this point.


Wont comment on the sound as hv hrd them for no more than a few minutes... And last I checked they were going for arnd 350 retail....expensive hell yeah


----------



## webvan

FYLegend said:


> AptX Sabbat E12 is out on Aliexpress, ~130$CAD/100$USD
> 
> https://s.click.aliexpress.com/e/5BYPCuu
> 
> ...



This listing says they are using the QC3020 ? So is that a typo or did they quietly move away from the original Realtek RTL8763BF chip ?

On a related matter, it must have been mentioned before but the KZ Z1 look a lot like the E12 ?

I really love my original X12, so versatile with their great battery life, pleasant sound (especially with cutout foams), comfortable, let noise through for sports and decent mic for calls. I think I'll pick up another pair just in case ! Now of course for traveling the 65t are better with their better isolation.


----------



## Dayv1d

AtariPrime said:


> For me the journey was kinda the opposite. I had my first Bose product as a teenager. I trusted that their products were as good as their reputation. But as time went on I listened and learned. Two decades later I understand now that Bose makes an inferior product. Always has. The sound is decent but there are offerings that cost half as much that sound much better. And Bose is constantly trying to tell the consumer what they want. It is a product for people who don’t know how to make decisions for themselves and trust their own ears. I have no interest in passive listening tech or paying too much for a subpar product.


Lets just say, Bose never delivered on the "neutral" "clean" and "reference" grade speaker front (regardless the formfactor), BUT they did some great products where thoughtfull soundtuning is needed: Open Earbuds, mobile bluetooth boxes and NC Headphones is where bose really does deliver great subjective(!) musicality and is worth the price imho.


----------



## howdy

Tavleen Suri said:


> how come no one mentions the B & O buds on this forum. Are they really that bad lol ??


I have them (for awhile now) and love the sound and will never sell them. They work great and I never have issues with them now.


----------



## Highfiver

ChickenButcher said:


> may I ask how to activate the ambient mode on the mifo o5? I have the pro version, but i didn't know it has this feature...


I love the Mifo 05’s so much I have four sets (two pros and two standards). To activate the hear through mode, on either bud, press and hold the power/multifunction button (not the volume one) for approx one to two seconds until you hear a little beep. Hear through mode should now be active on both buds. To turn off this mode, just do the same thing again. This feature can be triggered while music is playing or when they’re powered on but in standby mode. I really like being able to trigger the hear through mode and talk to folks without having to remove the buds. 

Let me know if this works for you...


----------



## Tavleen Suri

howdy said:


> I have them (for awhile now) and love the sound and will never sell them. They work great and I never have issues with them now.


1st or the 2nd gen ?? If you ve ever tried the bose ssf can you do like a small comparison bw them...am sure b and o's provide a better seal but otherwise how do they compare to each other...i own the ssf but I wanna try something else..tnx in advance


----------



## AtariPrime

hifi80sman said:


> These are what @clerkpalmer and I are talking about and looking forward to testing.
> https://gearpatrol.com/2019/05/30/bose-noise-cancelling-earbuds-700/



Will likely be one of Bose's best products but is not an IEM.  It sits at the entry to the ear, as such a good seal cannot be created.


----------



## howdy

Tavleen Suri said:


> 1st or the 2nd gen ?? If you ve ever tried the bose ssf can you do like a small comparison bw them...am sure b and o's provide a better seal but otherwise how do they compare to each other...i own the ssf but I wanna try something else..tnx in advance


I have the first gen. There is no difference in the buds only difference is the case.
I do not own any bose of anything so I'm no help with that.


----------



## hifi80sman

Tavleen Suri said:


> 1st or the 2nd gen ?? If you ve ever tried the bose ssf can you do like a small comparison bw them...am sure b and o's provide a better seal but otherwise how do they compare to each other...i own the ssf but I wanna try something else..tnx in advance


The 1st and 2nd Gen *earbuds *sound the same, there are just different colors.  The only difference is the case, where the 2nd Gen is USB C with wireless charging, but also about 2x the price.  I picked up the 1st Gen on Amazon Lightning Sale for $149.  Right now, you can get the 1st Gen new from Amazon for under $200.  https://www.amazon.com/Bang-Olufsen-Wireless-Bluetooth-Earphones/dp/B074WTKWG6

Because there are no major upgrades with the 2nd Gen, other than the case, they're not very compelling.  I'd stick with the 1st Gen and save some money.


----------



## FYLegend

webvan said:


> This listing says they are using the QC3020 ? So is that a typo or did they quietly move away from the original Realtek RTL8763BF chip ?
> 
> On a related matter, it must have been mentioned before but the KZ Z1 look a lot like the E12 ?
> 
> I really love my original X12, so versatile with their great battery life, pleasant sound (especially with cutout foams), comfortable, let noise through for sports and decent mic for calls. I think I'll pick up another pair just in case ! Now of course for traveling the 65t are better with their better isolation.


They listed a QC3020 version on Alibaba about a week ago - you could purchase it as a single unit for personal use (price was ~50$), but you'd have to pay 27$ for DHL shipping. but this now it got out to some Aliexpress sellers.  Clearly there's a markup regardless at this point, but overall it seems AptX might remain 20-30$ more than the originals. The new X12's have a camo scheme while the E12s appear to be the same as the originals.

I personally found 65t's isolation to be quite poor having used wired IEMs for a long time, and the Sabbat E12 is no better. Even changing tips I struggle to get a good seal. Maybe my pair is defective but I fail to get the deep bass everyone was talking about, except sometimes on the right bud (they actually sound more balanced with looser tips...). It actually sounds nice without the bass though - very bright and airy but not to the point of sibilance. The Jabras peak in the upper mids, while the Sabbats have a peak higher up than that towards the lower treble and has better treble extension but not by much .


----------



## Caipirina

Highfiver said:


> I love the Mifo 05’s so much I have four sets (two pros and two standards). To activate the hear through mode, on either bud, press and hold the power/multifunction button (not the volume one) for approx one to two seconds until you hear a little beep. Hear through mode should now be active on both buds. To turn off this mode, just do the same thing again. This feature can be triggered while music is playing or when they’re powered on but in standby mode. I really like being able to trigger the hear through mode and talk to folks without having to remove the buds.
> 
> Let me know if this works for you...



Curious that you would have 4 sets of the Mifo, as nice as they are   so many others to try and compare.

Have you ever figured out how to change the language from Chinese? Found some instructions on amazon, saying 'do the 10sec reset, this will change' ... I did, but that did not change anything 
The alleged ambient thing did not work for my pair 

Those buttons are really annoying, good I rarely ever use them ... just into the ears and play music


----------



## chinmie

Caipirina said:


> Curious that you would have 4 sets of the Mifo, as nice as they are   so many others to try and compare.
> 
> Have you ever figured out how to change the language from Chinese? Found some instructions on amazon, saying 'do the 10sec reset, this will change' ... I did, but that did not change anything
> The alleged ambient thing did not work for my pair
> ...



I've sold mine, but if I'm not mistaken you can change it by pressing one of the buttons 5 times..i forgot which one though


----------



## cittris (Aug 12, 2019)

Hey TWS friends,

I purchased some Anbes 359s from the Anbes Audiocart store and my right ear buds cuts out randomly but numerous times a song. I've tried repairing them, resetting them and i even got a new phone in the mean time and still the same issue.

Has anyone experienced this and found a solution?

I contacted the seller but seem reluctant to replace and also want my to post back to China.

TIA

P.S. i wish i'd seen these posts in this thread about the knock off 359s also. Since mine seem to be exactly that, knock offs.


----------



## FYLegend

Did anyone buy or receive the Lenovo HT10 and if so how is it?

It seems more and more sellers are getting Sabbat E12 Ultra - in addition to AptX it also has 40 hours of battery life in total (8-hours per charge). Gearvita is selling it for 69$ USD, but doesn't say whether it will have wireless charging or not.

https://gearvita.com/sabbat-e12-ultra-tws-bluetooth-earphones.html


----------



## snip3r77

cittris said:


> Hey TWS friends,
> 
> I purchased some Anbes 359s from the Anbes Audiocart store and my right ear buds cuts out randomly but numerous times a song. I've tried repairing them, resetting them and i even got a new phone in the mean time and still the same issue.
> 
> ...



Normal procedure for seller to ask for your item return to verify if it's faulty.


----------



## cittris

snip3r77 said:


> Normal procedure for seller to ask for your item return to verify if it's faulty.



Oh yeah of course, before i go down that road I thought i'd ask here hence the post. I should have made that line clearer.


----------



## FYLegend

snip3r77 said:


> Normal procedure for seller to ask for your item return to verify if it's faulty.


That may be, but sometimes they say that to prolong your dispute or issue, and the outcome might just be "there's nothing wrong but we will refund you anyways" (which has happened to me previously on eBay, but nothing wrong if you get a refund anyways - question is if they will pay for your return shipping). They didn't tell me that but said something along the lines of "please don't dispute we will give a discount".



cittris said:


> Hey TWS friends,
> 
> I purchased some Anbes 359s from the Anbes Audiocart store and my right ear buds cuts out randomly but numerous times a song. I've tried repairing them, resetting them and i even got a new phone in the mean time and still the same issue.
> 
> ...


What was the actual product you received? The "Coolhere UFO" I got has dodgy connection but the second batch, Air BE30, has better connection and a different interface. Sounds like you got a dud...

They were selling two different rebrands the past month or so. Fact is that Letscom BE30, Anbes 359 or Kissral R18 themselves are nothing more than a rebrand of a BE30 UFO, which appear to be manufactured by several OEMs on Alibaba such as DOGO and Ancreu. It just so happens the Anbes/Kissral were a good run but they have run dry and their Amazon listings are gone now. After browsing their page, I got an inquiry message from DOGO asking about trying some of their Bluetooth speakers - they said they were working with HAMA and Monster (the 2019 Airlink HD is essentially a BE30 rebrand sold at a higher price). 

The first one I got from them was Coolhere UFO and the bass was too loud on the left side. The connection was also dodgy at times. I didn't bother disputing the first time around and negotiated for a second one at a discount -  this time it was an "Air" BE30 with no branding. The bass was much more balanced, but the mids and treble were louder on the left side (at least this can be alleviated by adding some of the included packaging foam on one side) and the overall sound was not as bright as Coolhere UFO, but I am otherwise quite satisfied with the sound (relatively neutral). Unlike Coolhere UFO, both buds can be used individually for mono mode and the connection is far more solid, but the volume controls are nonexistent (I tried holding and tapping, nothing worked) and voice messages are extremely obnoxious.

Coolhere UFO (unbranded box with *DREAM SPORT logo* on top right)
Single tap = play/pause, Hold left/right = volume down/up, Double tap left/right = Previous/next track

Air BE30 (unbranded box and case):
Single tap = play/pause, Hold left/right = Previous/next track, Double tap left/right = Google Assistant/Siri/Cortana

Some other people have been getting unbranded boxes that have Letscom branding among others...


----------



## cittris (Aug 13, 2019)

FYLegend said:


> What was the actual product you received?



Thanks for the detailed reply!

The box and case i have are unbranded. The manual I received has "LETSCOM" on the from followed by "ST-BE30"
 The seller also offered me a discount on a new set of TWS to replace these ones.

So did you get your DOGO ones?


----------



## flamerz

Not IEM's, but anyone heard of these? 

https://humanheadphones.com/

I love the idea of true wireless clip ons, but at that price I wonder if the Sennheiser Momentum True Wireless sound better considering that this is a new brand. Still, great to see non-earbuds in the wireless market. I hope that market gets saturated soon so we can see some more reasonable prices on this type of headphone.


----------



## blomman77

Well i got the lenovo yesterday,and i have only listened to it for a couple of hours.
The first thing that got my attention was that it looks identical to the the tranya T3,except the control button. The case is also identical except that the lid is not transparen like the Tranya,and a different color to the case.
The reviewer that said he could not control anything but play pause must of had a faulty one or a version 1 or something,cause my pair can control both track skipping and volume.

Sound wise it it almost identical to Tranya  (measured them both) except that Lenovo has less elevated bass,which to me sound more natural for the majority of my music.
So Lenovo was a big suprise to me and a easy recomendation for the money


FYLegend said:


> Did anyone buy or receive the Lenovo HT10 and if so how is it?
> 
> It seems more and more sellers are getting Sabbat E12 Ultra - in addition to AptX it also has 40 hours of battery life in total (8-hours per charge). Gearvita is selling it for 69$ USD, but doesn't say whether it will have wireless charging or not.
> 
> https://gearvita.com/sabbat-e12-ultra-tws-bluetooth-earphones.html


----------



## webvan

FYLegend said:


> They listed a QC3020 version on Alibaba about a week ago - you could purchase it as a single unit for personal use (price was ~50$), but you'd have to pay 27$ for DHL shipping. but this now it got out to some Aliexpress sellers.  Clearly there's a markup regardless at this point, but overall it seems AptX might remain 20-30$ more than the originals. The new X12's have a camo scheme while the E12s appear to be the same as the originals.
> 
> I personally found 65t's isolation to be quite poor having used wired IEMs for a long time, and the Sabbat E12 is no better. Even changing tips I struggle to get a good seal. Maybe my pair is defective but I fail to get the deep bass everyone was talking about, except sometimes on the right bud (they actually sound more balanced with looser tips...). It actually sounds nice without the bass though - very bright and airy but not to the point of sibilance. The Jabras peak in the upper mids, while the Sabbats have a peak higher up than that towards the lower treble and has better treble extension but not by much .



Yeah the 65t isolation could be a bit better I suppose but the have small tips and don't go very deep inside the canal. Still pretty decent for travelling/commuting. 

I wonder if it's only a chip change in the E12/X12 or if they've tweaked other aspects too.


----------



## hifi80sman

OK, I saw the MW07 at Best Buy in Steel Blue...I had to.  Hopefully, I can get at least 3 hours, and If I can, I'll be a happy camper.  Going back and forth between all these TWS', I realized I was longing.  I'm just staring at the shiny case right now and polishing it with a diaper...it's really sad.

Listening to Mr. Diamond's 50th Anniversary Collection...and...spectacular.  Did @Bartig finish his reviews of all the high-end stuff he just got?  I know he had the MW07 to test out.


----------



## FYLegend (Aug 13, 2019)

cittris said:


> Thanks for the detailed reply!
> 
> The box and case i have are unbranded. The manual I received has "LETSCOM" on the from followed by "ST-BE30"
> The seller also offered me a discount on a new set of TWS to replace these ones.
> ...


No, the DOGO company just asked me if I wanted to buy some of their Bluetooth speakers and had one of the TWS listed in the message as well. I only just registered on Alibaba and was browsing through some of their TWS products and shortly thereafter I got an inquiry from them, even though I never messaged them. Coincidence maybe, but I'm not sure if sellers can easily see who is viewing on Alibaba or not...

On Aliexpress I've only seen BE30 UFOs being sold as "Anbes" and an unbranded "HKMR" sold by "JD techology Store". Coolhere themselves is an almost unheard of brand listed on some Chinese sites - they had the UFO as well as a bluetooth over-ear . DOGO has a new BE30E coming up with slightly different housings.

Interesting you got a LETSCOM - how does its control functions and sound quality compare to the ones I described? Are both buds able to be used individually? I thought they were one of the more legit companies like Anbes and Kissral, and they also released a version with a rectangular case and smaller battery called the BE32 (unfortunately it only charges with microUSB). One wonders if these are all factory seconds.  I'm wondering if anyone has bought from "Anbes Official" recently as I could never figure out whether they were still selling the official product or not. The person in the chat, Can Peng, seems to be the same as that of Anbes Audiocart but if that's the case they pretend to be oblivious to the other store. Anbes Official never got back to me about taking a photo of their product, only sending me a similar screenshot of a render as Audiocart had done. I see one recent positive review but they didn't specify what they received.

I forgot to mention how bad driver flex is on both units. When buttons are pressed against your ear, the audio will distort badly on that driver. Sabbat E12 also has driver flex on the right side which seems to sound more bassy... Also, the Air BE30 tends to distort at the beginning of each track it plays. After about 30 minutes of non-stop listening I noticed a desync of both channels which seemed to spike up the volume a bit before resuming properly...



blomman77 said:


> Well i got the lenovo yesterday,and i have only listened to it for a couple of hours.
> The first thing that got my attention was that it looks identical to the the tranya T3,except the control button. The case is also identical except that the lid is not transparen like the Tranya,and a different color to the case.
> The reviewer that said he could not control anything but play pause must of had a faulty one or a version 1 or something,cause my pair can control both track skipping and volume.
> 
> ...


Now that's really promising! Do you know if it charges Type C to Type C cables?

If only a budget TWS could have USB Type C, Wireless Charging, AptX [Sabbat E12 Ultra ticks these boxes], AND ambient aware mode...

Seems like Astrotec S80 second batch with Type C is imminent! I misplaced my S60 4.2 somewhere and can't find them...

I'll write up a Jabees Firefly Pro review in the coming days. For what it is, I really enjoy them as a daily driver, but the poor SBC performance is a serious issue. It sounds fine and close to AAC's quality for 30 seconds or so, then during upbeat tracks it sounds like somebody is snapping their fingers loudly or smacking your ears, especially on the left side.


----------



## blomman77

Only micro usb on these.
One nice feature is that Lenovo has aptx which Tranya don't have


----------



## FYLegend

blomman77 said:


> Only micro usb on these.
> One nice feature is that Lenovo has aptx which Tranya don't have


Oh wow, their case render is deceptive as it shows Type C


----------



## blomman77

Ha you are right, the picture clearly shows type c.
The TWS market is really bad,you have to be a detective to get the correct info. Take the Lenovo,nowhere is there any info that you can change volume and skip track. That info is VERY
Important to many people. They clearly don't know their own products...
With that said, it is still very good 


FYLegend said:


> Oh wow, their case render is deceptive as it shows Type C


----------



## BobJS

hifi80sman said:


> OK, I saw the MW07 at Best Buy in Steel Blue...I had to.  Hopefully, I can get at least 3 hours, and If I can, I'll be a happy camper.  Going back and forth between all these TWS', I realized I was longing.  I'm just staring at the shiny case right now and polishing it with a diaper...it's really sad.
> 
> Listening to Mr. Diamond's 50th Anniversary Collection...and...spectacular.  Did @Bartig finish his reviews of all the high-end stuff he just got?  I know he had the MW07 to test out.



Good man! <enabling mode>

Still $300?  I got my plain black matte from them when they had $225 special.


----------



## crezo

there's a new version of the E12? My standard E12 just arrived a few days ago and loving it! With a bit of EQing to boost the trebble it sounds brilliant. It's a bass monster with no we so I've just tweaked it slightly to boost the trebble but I'm seriously impressed. The USBC and wireless charging are a massive bonus as well as Micro USB is just a dad to have to find a different cable when everything else I have is USBC.

Does APTX make a big difference over standard Bluetooth 5.0 connection?

Also GOLD because... Why not





FYLegend said:


> It seems more and more sellers are getting Sabbat E12 Ultra - in addition to AptX it also has 40 hours of battery life in total (8-hours per charge). Gearvita is selling it for 69$ USD, but doesn't say whether it will have wireless charging or not.
> 
> https://gearvita.com/sabbat-e12-ultra-tws-bluetooth-earphones.html


----------



## turbobb

hifi80sman said:


> I'm just staring at the shiny case right now and polishing it with a diaper...it's really sad.



Ha! If there was ever a quote that should be in a sig line, THIS is it.


----------



## clerkpalmer

hifi80sman said:


> OK, I saw the MW07 at Best Buy in Steel Blue...I had to.  Hopefully, I can get at least 3 hours, and If I can, I'll be a happy camper.  Going back and forth between all these TWS', I realized I was longing.  I'm just staring at the shiny case right now and polishing it with a diaper...it's really sad.
> 
> Listening to Mr. Diamond's 50th Anniversary Collection...and...spectacular.  Did @Bartig finish his reviews of all the high-end stuff he just got?  I know he had the MW07 to test out.


You are an inspiration to us all. I am tempted to do the exact same (but perhaps and eBay purchase at 200 or so). I would be interested in whether any behind the scenes tweaks have been made regarding battery life.


----------



## albau

hifi80sman said:


> OK, I saw the MW07 at Best Buy in Steel Blue...I had to.  Hopefully, I can get at least 3 hours, and If I can, I'll be a happy camper.


Man, you can't! Prep yourself for 2.5 hours max before the dreaded chewing sound starts. But you know what, to me it doesn't matter. I stopped being pissed off. No matter what backup I carry - E8, 65t, 389, famed T5 - just switch to it and immediately this enveloping, simultaneously deep and shiny, warm and razor sharp, decaying in lows and rushing in highs bliss is replaced in comparison by something flat, congested and what invokes the phrase "poor man's". Yes, few minutes and you're getting used to this and even begin finding something nice in it but deep lingering feeling that you knew better remains until you see on a shiny case these two left and right leds turning to green... Don't resist it, man, there's no free lunch. These 10mm beryllium drivers are big, hard and hungry and need their juice. There's always a price to pay.


----------



## TK33

clerkpalmer said:


> You are an inspiration to us all. I am tempted to do the exact same (but perhaps and eBay purchase at 200 or so). I would be interested in whether any behind the scenes tweaks have been made regarding battery life.



Looks like the BB sale is over (was 230 for some colors, but not steel blue, a few weeks ago) but it looks like they are on sale right now for $250 at B&H.


----------



## d3myz

clerkpalmer said:


> For those of us who don’t have 1500 iems laying around, do the sq with the included iem beat other tw sets you have?


wow, I can't find these Fostex TM2's for under $300 anywhere, what on earth could make them so expensive?


----------



## Slater

d3myz said:


> wow, I can't find these Fostex TM2's for under $300 anywhere, what on earth could make them so expensive?



Same reason Sennheiser charges $300 for the MTW. Because they can.


----------



## hifi80sman

BobJS said:


> Good man! <enabling mode>
> 
> Still $300?  I got my plain black matte from them when they had $225 special.


I actually got the Steel Blue for $249.  The guy at Best Buy said they usually don't match B&H Photo and Video, but he'd make an exception for me.  Must have been the ultra tight "SMedium" T-Shirt I was wearing.


----------



## howdy

hifi80sman said:


> I actually got the Steel Blue for $249.  The guy at Best Buy said they usually don't match B&H Photo and Video, but he'd make an exception for me.  Must have been the ultra tight "SMedium" T-Shirt I was wearing.


I bought them twice and sold them. I didn't even care about the battery life it's that I had a hard time getting a seal in my right ear. They did sound amazing when it was sealed. Hope you have good luck with yours. 
I'm still gonna give the Sony's a shot and if I don't like them I will try the Beats.


----------



## Luchyres

howdy said:


> I bought them twice and sold them. I didn't even care about the battery life it's that I had a hard time getting a seal in my right ear. They did sound amazing when it was sealed. Hope you have good luck with yours.
> I'm still gonna give the Sony's a shot and if I don't like them I will try the Beats.



Hey howdy, 

If you haven't tried them yet, I would recommend the Nuarl NT01AX - I have not tried the MW07, unfortunately, but the NT01AX surprised me with the sound and has quite good battery life and a very easy fit for me. I will say, the included 'wings' were not comfortable at all - so I just use it with the included short tips. Also, I did have to download an EQ app to get them to sound the way I wanted - but it's a testament to their sound quality that I was able to push them so hard with the app without them sounding poorly. 

@hifi80sman lol @ "smedium" - some of the posts you guys make in this thread make me think it would not be such a bad time to all get together for a TWS meet-up. A sort of BYOD silent dance party lollllll :


----------



## hifi80sman

howdy said:


> I bought them twice and sold them. I didn't even care about the battery life it's that I had a hard time getting a seal in my right ear. They did sound amazing when it was sealed. Hope you have good luck with yours.
> I'm still gonna give the Sony's a shot and if I don't like them I will try the Beats.


Did you try SpinFit tips?  Depending on the design, 99% of the time, I'm anywhere from M to L, however, with the MW07, I have to use the XL tips.

I considered the Beats, but it looks like you don't get a full seal, while the over-ear design has been a challenge for me in the past.  If you end up with the Beats, look forward to feedback.


----------



## albau

hifi80sman said:


> Did you try SpinFit tips?  Depending on the design, 99% of the time, I'm anywhere from M to L, however, with the MW07, I have to use the XL tips.


Ditto. With MW07 Spinfits CP-100Z Large fit and seal excellent for me. But as always with tips, buds and ears it's all very personal.


----------



## hifi80sman

Luchyres said:


> Hey howdy,
> 
> If you haven't tried them yet, I would recommend the Nuarl NT01AX - I have not tried the MW07, unfortunately, but the NT01AX surprised me with the sound and has quite good battery life and a very easy fit for me. I will say, the included 'wings' were not comfortable at all - so I just use it with the included short tips. Also, I did have to download an EQ app to get them to sound the way I wanted - but it's a testament to their sound quality that I was able to push them so hard with the app without them sounding poorly.
> 
> @hifi80sman lol @ "smedium" - some of the posts you guys make in this thread make me think it would not be such a bad time to all get together for a TWS meet-up. A sort of BYOD silent dance party lollllll :


You should see my "snake charmer" dance moves.  It's even better if I make direct eye contact with you whilst gyrating.


----------



## howdy

hifi80sman said:


> Did you try SpinFit tips?  Depending on the design, 99% of the time, I'm anywhere from M to L, however, with the MW07, I have to use the XL tips.
> 
> I considered the Beats, but it looks like you don't get a full seal, while the over-ear design has been a challenge for me in the past.  If you end up with the Beats, look forward to feedback.


Spinfits and JVC spirals are my go to. I have a lot of Spinfits they are super comfortable and seal on everything but the MW07.


----------



## Luchyres

hifi80sman said:


> You should see my "snake charmer" dance moves.  It's even better if I make direct eye contact with you whilst gyrating.



Deal. With three requirements - 

1) There is a 6 inch layer of plexiglass between you and I whilst any "snake charming" is happening. 
2) We all meet up at @Caipirina 's "island lair" 
3) Everyone brings their best IEM and TWS collection.


----------



## howdy

Luchyres said:


> Hey howdy,
> 
> If you haven't tried them yet, I would recommend the Nuarl NT01AX - I have not tried the MW07, unfortunately, but the NT01AX surprised me with the sound and has quite good battery life and a very easy fit for me. I will say, the included 'wings' were not comfortable at all - so I just use it with the included short tips. Also, I did have to download an EQ app to get them to sound the way I wanted - but it's a testament to their sound quality that I was able to push them so hard with the app without them sounding poorly.
> 
> @hifi80sman lol @ "smedium" - some of the posts you guys make in this thread make me think it would not be such a bad time to all get together for a TWS meet-up. A sort of BYOD silent dance party lollllll :


I have watching them and seen some pros and cons from here and Reddit. I will keep watching them as I here that they awesome but have quality issues.


----------



## david8613

I saw they look interesting, pretty good specs. Only missing volume control, price is so low! Who is gonna be the first to try them? 

Wireless Earbuds, Bluetooth 5.0 wireless Headphones Deep Bass HiFi 3D Stereo Sound 35H Extended Playtime, Built-in Microphone with Portable Charging Case（Black） https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07M99NTQ5/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_i_l62uDbWBPW555


----------



## Caipirina

david8613 said:


> I saw they look interesting, pretty good specs. Only missing volume control, price is so low! Who is gonna be the first to try them?
> 
> Wireless Earbuds, Bluetooth 5.0 wireless Headphones Deep Bass HiFi 3D Stereo Sound 35H Extended Playtime, Built-in Microphone with Portable Charging Case（Black） https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07M99NTQ5/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_i_l62uDbWBPW555



"currently unavailable" is a really low price  

Saw them long time ago also on AliX, but they somehow never tickled my fancy (don't see them there anymore)


----------



## gibletzor

This one has 6D sound!!  That's 3Ds better than the rest!


----------



## Slater

gibletzor said:


> This one has 6D sound!!  That's 3Ds better than the rest!



I'm holding out for 9D


----------



## FYLegend

crezo said:


> there's a new version of the E12? My standard E12 just arrived a few days ago and loving it! With a bit of EQing to boost the trebble it sounds brilliant. It's a bass monster with no we so I've just tweaked it slightly to boost the trebble but I'm seriously impressed. The USBC and wireless charging are a massive bonus as well as Micro USB is just a dad to have to find a different cable when everything else I have is USBC.
> 
> Does APTX make a big difference over standard Bluetooth 5.0 connection?
> 
> Also GOLD because... Why not


Hmm, mine is the total opposite of bass monster, I'm only hearing some bass and otherwise they are airy and bright - not unlike Jabra 65t but with the highs peaking and extending higher. Sometimes the right side seems to have more bass, and the left has more treble and mids. It seems like the bass balance happens as soon as I start to fiddle with the seal, switch tips and the right driver flexs back, but seems to subside upon storing the buds for a while. A teardown would be helpful to see what can be done about the bass ports among other things. I see that 52Audio has done a Sabbat X12 teardown but not E12...

AptX can make a difference when done well, in part due to lower latency and higher bitrates than typical SBC. Only Windows and Android will benefit from it natively, since Apple does not support AptX. On the other hand, Windows 10 doesn't support AAC codec, so you're left with using either SBC or AptX. Thus a TWS that only uses AAC or SBC better have a good SBC implementation if you wish to use it on Windows. For example, Anbes 359/BE30 UFO sounds good with SBC, but it also has some odd echoing artifacts when playing certain audio

More recently, however, there have been tweaks in LineageOS to increasing SBC bitrate to sound close to AptX HD, in some ways surpassing it due to less dynamic range compression. Unfortunately, Google has said they have no intention to add this to Android Q, and I can't find any info how to do this outside of Linux machines.

PS - Shanling TWS will have an ambient aware mode as with MIFO O4.


----------



## crezo

Sounds like you've potentially got a faulty set there, unless it's just down to them not sealing properly? 
Mine were almost too bassy as standard and a bit 'boomy' for want of a better word on Android until you EQ them to make the trebble brighter on my P30 pro.  They sound great with no EQ direct out of my MacBook though.

Most reviews note the bass response as well, so I'd suggest some different tips, and if you still have no luck it might be worth changing them.

In terms of the new models though, if my phone or Mac will do APTX then it might be worth picking them up... And also because CAMO





FYLegend said:


> Hmm, mine is the total opposite of bass monster, I'm only hearing some bass and otherwise they are airy and bright - not unlike Jabra 65t but with the highs peaking and extending higher. Sometimes the right side seems to have more bass, and the left has more treble and mids. It seems like the bass balance happens as soon as I start to fiddle with the seal, switch tips and the right driver flexs back, but seems to subside upon storing the buds for a while. A teardown would be helpful to see what can be done about the bass ports among other things. I see that 52Audio has done a Sabbat X12 teardown but not E12...
> 
> AptX can make a difference when done well, in part due to lower latency and higher bitrates than typical SBC. Only Windows and Android will benefit from it natively, since Apple does not support AptX. On the other hand, Windows 10 doesn't support AAC codec, so you're left with using either SBC or AptX. Thus a TWS that only uses AAC or SBC better have a good SBC implementation if you wish to use it on Windows. For example, Anbes 359/BE30 UFO sounds good with SBC, but it also has some odd echoing artifacts when playing certain audio
> 
> ...


----------



## chinmie

FYLegend said:


> Hmm, mine is the total opposite of bass monster, I'm only hearing some bass and otherwise they are airy and bright - not unlike Jabra 65t but with the highs peaking and extending higher. Sometimes the right side seems to have more bass, and the left has more treble and mids. It seems like the bass balance happens as soon as I start to fiddle with the seal, switch tips and the right driver flexs back, but seems to subside upon storing the buds for a while. A teardown would be helpful to see what can be done about the bass ports among other things. I see that 52Audio has done a Sabbat X12 teardown but not E12...
> 
> AptX can make a difference when done well, in part due to lower latency and higher bitrates than typical SBC. Only Windows and Android will benefit from it natively, since Apple does not support AptX. On the other hand, Windows 10 doesn't support AAC codec, so you're left with using either SBC or AptX. Thus a TWS that only uses AAC or SBC better have a good SBC implementation if you wish to use it on Windows. For example, Anbes 359/BE30 UFO sounds good with SBC, but it also has some odd echoing artifacts when playing certain audio
> 
> ...



my E12 was a boomy, uncooked bass monster and have rolled off treble, up until the left earpiece killed itself


----------



## BobJS

I see no reason to buy another TWS until ALL the Ds are available.


----------



## Caipirina

Slater said:


> I'm holding out for 9D



No need to hold any longer!


----------



## gibletzor

Caipirina said:


> No need to hold any longer!



It's a miracle of modern engineering!  And what a price!


----------



## Caipirina (Aug 14, 2019)

We talked a few weeks ago about these, since they look like they might have 2 DD per ear (but also strong suspicion this might be just cosmetic / deco) ..

Not sure if this is supposed to be an indication for 2DD 

 



 well, I still had them on my wish list and see now that they dropped in price a bit and there are a bunch of reviews, one really not good, complaining about 2h battery life (ouch) .. the others are pretty good-ish as in 'sound good for the price' ...

Did anyone here actually order them?


----------



## vstolpner

Caipirina said:


> We talked a few weeks ago about these, since they look like they might have 2 DD per ear (but also strong suspicion this might be just cosmetic / deco) ..
> 
> Not sure if this is supposed to be an indication for 2DD
> 
> ...



Of course they have 2 DD... One for left and one for right


----------



## Caipirina

vstolpner said:


> Of course they have 2 DD... One for left and one for right



I specifically said '2 DD per ear'


----------



## AtariPrime

Does anyone know when Jabra normally releases new models or if they have announced any for release in the near future?

Thx


----------



## Soreniglio

blomman77 said:


> Well i got the lenovo yesterday,and i have only listened to it for a couple of hours.
> The first thing that got my attention was that it looks identical to the the tranya T3,except the control button. The case is also identical except that the lid is not transparen like the Tranya,and a different color to the case.
> The reviewer that said he could not control anything but play pause must of had a faulty one or a version 1 or something,cause my pair can control both track skipping and volume.
> 
> ...


So you'd say they are a more balanced version of the Tranya T3? I might take a dive for the money


----------



## cacio

just want to leave my experience with the KZ T1 TWS.

This is the worst UX I've ever had. 
- The case is really heavy and opens extremely bad. I ripped the top part out.
- the case has L/R bud position switched, so you pick the right earbud from the left side of the case.
- the headphones feel and look cheap with the glossy finish. Should be matte plastic like Tiso i5
- Volume control is ****ed up, goes from medium to loud without in-between
- touch controll could be tuned better
- stupid old tones like from BT 4.0 China speaker
- Amplifier runs always 100% , the DAC output volume changes. Means more distribution on lower volume

Now the good parts:

- They are comfortable to wear.
- They sound extremely good with only AAC 256kbit . Like world's better than QCY T2C or Tiso i5. Better than KZ ZSN in good DAC. I used the T1 right out of the box! Normally I let most headphones to burn in couple of ours (cuz usually only the expensive audio is burned in already inside the factory) I have them for 2 days now and already want to keep those as dailys despite of the horrible UX around the earphones itself. SQ is just really nice.

The overall tune is more balanced than usual from KZ. I like it. The soundstage is not big, but the separation is awesome and makes up for that in good masters. I do relisten old songs and hear new tones . Such athmosphare in good masters. Really lively 3D space, even if not big. Overall they let some details through which I didn't knew before with my Takstar Pro 82 over head monitors and ES9018KM2 DAC. 

You have really the feeling that they are limited by AAC 256kbit. Maybe I could improve that with custom Android ROMs , but right now they don't show SBC HD if the device supports AAC or better.

Overall I will rip the case apart and cut the housings out and replace left and right. So annoying . And this is nothing you would have to ask from public beta feedback. This is obviouse if you try to use it once!


----------



## CardigdanWalk

cacio said:


> just want to leave my experience with the KZ T1 TWS.
> 
> This is the worst UX I've ever had.
> - The case is really heavy and opens extremely bad. I ripped the top part out.
> ...



If possible can you post photos of the casing changes you make. I want to try and make the holes deeper as my foam earbuds are too big and mean they don’t charge, but it doesn’t seem like there is that much room underneath.

Fingers crossed

Also is there anyway to force high quality AAC on iPhone? It seems like sometimes I connect and I get lots of cuts out but high quality music, or steady connection but poorer quality music :-/


----------



## Slater

CardigdanWalk said:


> If possible can you post photos of the casing changes you make. I want to try and make the holes deeper as my foam earbuds are too big and mean they don’t charge, but it doesn’t seem like there is that much room underneath.
> 
> Fingers crossed
> 
> Also is there anyway to force high quality AAC on iPhone? It seems like sometimes I connect and I get lots of cuts out but high quality music, or steady connection but poorer quality music :-/



You should be able to adapt this mod to the KZ case:

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/goi...re-we-there-yet.861024/page-494#post-14996945

As far as forcing AAC, that’s actually what the iPhone defaults to. If AAC is available, it will use that. It’s only when AAC is not available that it drops to SPC.


----------



## blomman77

Yes they sound and measure almost exactly as the Tranya,except that Lenovo has less sub bass.
So Lenovo sounds more balanced to my ears.
If you decide to buy Lenovo,don't forget to search for discount coupons. There are several deals out there.


Soreniglio said:


> So you'd say they are a more balanced version of the Tranya T3? I might take a dive for the money


----------



## FYLegend

crezo said:


> Sounds like you've potentially got a faulty set there, unless it's just down to them not sealing properly?
> Mine were almost too bassy as standard and a bit 'boomy' for want of a better word on Android until you EQ them to make the trebble brighter on my P30 pro.  They sound great with no EQ direct out of my MacBook though.
> 
> Most reviews note the bass response as well, so I'd suggest some different tips, and if you still have no luck it might be worth changing them.
> ...





crezo said:


> Sounds like you've potentially got a faulty set there, unless it's just down to them not sealing properly?
> Mine were almost too bassy as standard and a bit 'boomy' for want of a better word on Android until you EQ them to make the trebble brighter on my P30 pro.  They sound great with no EQ direct out of my MacBook though.
> 
> Most reviews note the bass response as well, so I'd suggest some different tips, and if you still have no luck it might be worth changing them.
> ...


I bought these from the Flyda 3C store on Aliexpress. I also got a free rubber protector for it, but as I didn't specify the colour they gave me a pink one (...). This is the box the came in:

 
The right bud was low on battery upon unboxing and I initially thought it was just not working. The eartips installed were already heavily warped to the foam's shape and have not regained their original shape. Also not to keen on the case which has a rattling sound inside.


----------



## Mouseman

I'm glad my 2nd pair of 6D (or was it 8D?) got lost in transit from China. Don't need them anymore. Today my T1 betas got delivered, and after a few hours, I'm really impressed. I'll write a review later, but some first impressions now: 

- pairing is quick and effortless
- sound is fantastic. I'm going to roll tips, but they have great (but not overpowering) bass. Great instrument separation and sound stage. Really wide. 
- I'm on an iPhone XS Max and I'm not having the volume issues everyone is mentioning. 
- the case is a lot smaller than I expected. The R/L switch is beyond stupid, but even worse is the POS hinge. I have one other set with the same one - it sucks, it's sloppy, it's cheap-looking and feeling and no one should ever use it again. I understand how someone else could have ripped it off. I expect it to be the failure point.
- touch controls are the best on any set I have, but they still seem twitchy. Give me a damn button. 

So far I'm very impressed. More to come after I get some hours in with them.


----------



## Caipirina

I guess no one is surprised that the first Powerbeat Pro clones are showing up    (PSA: don't buy clones / fakes / knock offs) 

What surprises me more is the choice of stock photo they selected to photoshop their product on ...


----------



## Caipirina

Mouseman said:


> - I'm on an iPhone XS Max and I'm not having the volume issues everyone is mentioning.



Are you certain about that? I was sure about the same on my old iPhone 7Plus, since I could see the dots of the volume meter going up / down nicely step by step ... and that fooled me into thinking the volume was changing incrementally as well ... but then I did a blind test and noticed that actually only every 3rd button press the volume would change!


----------



## gibletzor

Looks like Mpow T5s are going to be on a lightning deal tomorrow morning!  Starts at 11:24AM US Central time.


----------



## clerkpalmer

gibletzor said:


> Looks like Mpow T5s are going to be on a lightning deal tomorrow morning!  Starts at 11:24AM US Central time.


What’s the lightning price? Is the consensus that these beat the anbes?


----------



## gibletzor

clerkpalmer said:


> What’s the lightning price? Is the consensus that these beat the anbes?


They generally don't list the price until it starts.


----------



## vstolpner

clerkpalmer said:


> What’s the lightning price? Is the consensus that these beat the anbes?



Last time it was $38.something... and IMO they beat the Anbes in every way except portability, and not sticking out of your ears.


----------



## gibletzor

vstolpner said:


> Last time it was $38.something... and IMO they beat the Anbes in every way except portability, and not sticking out of your ears.


I have a pair of the T5s and I might just pick up a 2nd if the sale is substantial enough.  I love them!  Sound great, haven't had any connection issues.  I've got some different eartips on the way to try out because the stock ones are just a tad deep in my ear and slightly uncomfortable, but that's just my wonky ears.


----------



## chinmie

Caipirina said:


> I guess no one is surprised that the first Powerbeat Pro clones are showing up    (PSA: don't buy clones / fakes / knock offs)
> 
> What surprises me more is the choice of stock photo they selected to photoshop their product on ...



is this fall into the category of knock offs though? it does seems to thread the thin line 

I'm curious on how it sounds, but my target now is finding a TWS with high IPX rating to replace my Mifo o5 (right now the MPow T5 is the strongest candidate). also because i already have the BT20s combos for that similar earhook design


----------



## Caipirina (Aug 15, 2019)

chinmie said:


> is this fall into the category of knock offs though? it does seems to thread the thin line
> 
> I'm curious on how it sounds, but my target now is finding a TWS with high IPX rating to replace my Mifo o5 (right now the MPow T5 is the strongest candidate). also because i already have the BT20s combos for that similar earhook design



I was actually wondering if I might get kickbanned for even mentioning those 

But then I realized that as long as there is not blatant fake Beats / Apple logo infringement (or calling something that looks like an IE800, the 'DIY ie 800') it should be ok  ...
heck, apple obviously did not trademark / copyright that airpods form factor, hence tons of clones / look alikes all over the place, I guess the same applies here, plus it is not even trying to be a 1:1 copy and has a few own tricks / functionalities up its sleeve (battery display in % and 10h alleged play time) ...

Since I do not trust my BT20 (no S) to resist my running sweat (nor the IEMs I would attach to them), I have been looking for a form factor like this and I might actually bite ... has been a while and I don't really see anything these days I get excited about (maybe that pebble looking whizzer t2, so far I found one YT review in Russian only) ...

Oh, as for the PBpro formfactor .. the other day I found these ultra cheap - no charging box ones 




At that price I am not expecting sonic wonders, but this might be interesting for some extreme sport - single use kind of scenarios


----------



## Caipirina

chinmie said:


> but my target now is finding a TWS with high IPX rating to replace my Mifo o5



For fun I checked what AliX has to offer in ipx8 ... and there are some ... but not sure if I would really thrust that rating ...  there is THIS one and it's a fun read ... a) they have this image of a guy not only swimming, but diving with them (obviously photoshopped)

 

but then there is a buyer complaining that it does not work and the seller actually admits that since it has touch controls, it shuts down the earbuds when submersed  

b) did I not read somewhere that water is really sucky for BT transmissions?

The only earphones I trust for swimming are those Sonys behind the neck wire things, that actually have covered eartips for water use, making sure that no water gets inside. With 4GB memory I can load ample music on them 

Which brings me back to something asked here before ... I want some TWS with on board memory!


----------



## d3myz

Slater said:


> I'm holding out for 9D


Have i got some news for you, my dude! LOL

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/330...chweb0_0,searchweb201602_4,searchweb201603_60


----------



## SuperLuigi

https://mobile.twitter.com/umidigi/status/1161941874082553856?s=19


----------



## clerkpalmer

I had been sitting on my TRN10 for about a year.  Originally bought them to pair with some chifi iems, but the hiss was unbearable.  On a whim, I grabbed some KZ ZS7s on amazon and paired them back with the TRN10.  In short, the SQ is unsurpassed by anything I have heard to date in a TW iem.  It is better than the MW07 which is my gold standard and it is better than the all-in KZ T1.  The TRN10 is surprisingly comfortable as well.  Obviously, if you are looking for other features such as IP rating, EQ, hear through etc., this is not a solution.  But for SQ only, I am floored. In fact, this may keep me out of chasing higher end TW headsets at least for SQ purposes.  This total solution was under $75 bucks.  I am going to order a new TRN20S from Ali and see if the situation gets any better.  Can't believe I waited this long to give this solution a try.


----------



## chinmie

Caipirina said:


> For fun I checked what AliX has to offer in ipx8 ... and there are some ... but not sure if I would really thrust that rating ...  there is THIS one and it's a fun read ... a) they have this image of a guy not only swimming, but diving with them (obviously photoshopped)
> 
> 
> 
> ...



 

yup! i love mine too. hard to beat the feeling of submerged in the pool with music playing in your ears 

yes, wearing TWS connected to phone won't work under water. I've tested it with the mifo. the signal would just disconnect the moment it was submerged.


----------



## Boreaquis

d3myz said:


> Have i got some news for you, my dude! LOL
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/330...chweb0_0,searchweb201602_4,searchweb201603_60



Let's wait for 12D. The tech is moving so fast!


----------



## d3myz

Hey Guys, I was gifted a pair of 1more stylish in black by my bro-in-law this weekend. I listened to them for a couple hours and decided they aren't for me. I Couldn't get a good seal. I'd like to find them a good home at a substantial discount. I'll post some pics later today, but they are essentially like new. Any takers? DM me. Is there somewhere else on head-fi I should post them for sale? i'm thinking in the $50-60 range plus shipping. US only, sorry international bros.


----------



## Caipirina

SuperLuigi said:


> https://mobile.twitter.com/umidigi/status/1161941874082553856?s=19



Interesting, they look like one of the many Redmi Airdot rebrands which can already be had for below 8$ (!)

Only difference I see is the alignment of the battery indicator LED (my original Redmi don't have any and were like 20$) 

Wondering though about the tech inside, Umidigi says 7.2mm DD, while others aren't that specific ...  at 10$ they probably make a very nice spare pair.


----------



## Caipirina (Aug 15, 2019)

chinmie said:


> yup! i love mine too. hard to beat the feeling of submerged in the pool with music playing in your ears
> 
> yes, wearing TWS connected to phone won't work under water. I've tested it with the mifo. the signal would just disconnect the moment it was submerged.



Best color!

Like’em so much that for my last marathon back in December I also got the 6xx model with BT, so I could also play music from phone. They had a special sale at the SG marathon expo. Also, nice yellow 
 

What bums me out a bit though is that the charging sleds for these are NOT interchangeable! 

We are now returning to TWS


----------



## Bartig (Aug 15, 2019)

hifi80sman said:


> OK, I saw the MW07 at Best Buy in Steel Blue...I had to.  Hopefully, I can get at least 3 hours, and If I can, I'll be a happy camper.  Going back and forth between all these TWS', I realized I was longing.  I'm just staring at the shiny case right now and polishing it with a diaper...it's really sad.
> 
> Listening to Mr. Diamond's 50th Anniversary Collection...and...spectacular.  Did @Bartig finish his reviews of all the high-end stuff he just got?  I know he had the MW07 to test out.


I'm about to go on vacation before I further test the high end stuff - but not before I hope to publish my under 50 dollar comparison tomorrow.


----------



## Bartig

Speaking of which... Hello, 320 dollars of price difference...


----------



## Caipirina

Bartig said:


> Speaking of which... Hello, 320 dollars of price difference...



Very curious to hear / read your thoughts on the UiiSii .. they are still in my shopping cart ... 'for later' .. maybe ...


----------



## clerkpalmer

Mpow lightning deal is up.  $31 bucks.  Hopefully my new cycling buds.


----------



## actorlife

gibletzor said:


> Looks like Mpow T5s are going to be on a lightning deal tomorrow morning!  Starts at 11:24AM US Central time.


Dang dang dang 30 bucks. Crawls to corner and weeps.


----------



## clerkpalmer

If anyone wants a mint kz T1 in conus and doesn’t want to wait for Ali shipping pm me. I’ll say 35 shipped.


----------



## d3myz

actorlife said:


> Dang dang dang 30 bucks. Crawls to corner and weeps.


They are $30 right now in the U.S. 83% claimed.

"Sighs and shakes head while hitting checkout on Amazon"

I literally just ordered another pair and received them yesterday. looks like these babies are getting swapped out. I really love these TWS'



clerkpalmer said:


> What’s the lightning price? Is the consensus that these beat the anbes?


The don't BEAT the anbes per say, but I think their sound is a little cleaner, better pronounced mids and i feel they are a touch more responsive. The bass def. isn't as good but it's fast an accurate and hits 25hz easily. buy them.


----------



## actorlife (Aug 15, 2019)

d3myz said:


> They are $30 right now in the U.S. 83% claimed.
> 
> "Sighs and shakes head while hitting checkout on Amazon"


Grunt. Can't and won't. Cries and Sighs.


----------



## Soreniglio

@Bartig Let's say I can choose between Tranya T3 (Lenovo version with less sub-bass) or QCY T3, which one is the best in your opinion? I prefer something somewhat more balanced overall.


----------



## hifi80sman

Bartig said:


> Speaking of which... Hello, 320 dollars of price difference...


Curious about the UiiSii as well.  Shill reviews all over the place, but it doesn't mean they're not good.


----------



## hifi80sman

So...had to return my MW07.  I had 2 pairs of the Steel Blue and both lasted only 1 1/2 hours at around 40% volume (AAC).  Using aptX, man, it was just a little over a hour.  Both sets I received were built in 8/2018, so I'm not sure if the current builds are using a better battery, but sooo disappointed.  The Tortoiseshell I had went about 2 hours, 20 minutes or something like that.  I was expecting at least that before the low batter warning (which is completely distracting).  If they got rid of the low battery warning and you're looking at 2.5 hours uninterrupted, because of the sound, I would at least go for that.  But if the low battery warning starts to go off at 1 1/2 hours, dude, game over.  Can't do it.

Because some on here have touted the Nuarl NT01AX (not the NT01B or NT01L), I ordered those and they should be here tonight.  Right now, I just need great sound, and the only TWS that I have listened to that are pure sound monsters are the MW07.  I like the MTW and E8, but they are not far off from my Cowon KY02 or MPOW T5.  The MW07 is just clearly, for me, on another level.  I hope the Nuarl can take me to that next level.


----------



## clerkpalmer

hifi80sman said:


> So...had to return my MW07.  I had 2 pairs of the Steel Blue and both lasted only 1 1/2 hours at around 40% volume (AAC).  Using aptX, man, it was just a little over a hour.  Both sets I received were built in 8/2018, so I'm not sure if the current builds are using a better battery, but sooo disappointed.  The Tortoiseshell I had went about 2 hours, 20 minutes or something like that.  I was expecting at least that before the low batter warning (which is completely distracting).  If they got rid of the low battery warning and you're looking at 2.5 hours uninterrupted, because of the sound, I would at least go for that.  But if the low battery warning starts to go off at 1 1/2 hours, dude, game over.  Can't do it.
> 
> Because some on here have touted the Nuarl NT01AX (not the NT01B or NT01L), I ordered those and they should be here tonight.  Right now, I just need great sound, and the only TWS that I have listened to that are pure sound monsters are the MW07.  I like the MTW and E8, but they are not far off from my Cowon KY02 or MPOW T5.  The MW07 is just clearly, for me, on another level.  I hope the Nuarl can take me to that next level.



Yep, the dirty little secret of the MW07.  That chime sound is the kiss of death.  That sucks.  My first pair went under in just about 2 hours.  The Nuarl won't take you to the next level - they are very good however.  Just not MW07 good.  Probably Senn good though.  If SQ is your goal, seriously try the TRNBT20 with some KZ Iems.  I'm going to use them in the gym until I get my sweat on at which point I'm going to switch to my PB Pro.


----------



## hifi80sman

clerkpalmer said:


> Yep, the dirty little secret of the MW07.  That chime sound is the kiss of death.  That sucks.  My first pair went under in just about 2 hours.  The Nuarl won't take you to the next level - they are very good however.  Just not MW07 good.  Probably Senn good though.  If SQ is your goal, seriously try the TRNBT20 with some KZ Iems.  I'm going to use them in the gym until I get my sweat on at which point I'm going to switch to my PB Pro.


Yeah, what sucks for me is the wrap-around-ear fit just doesn't work.  My ears are "normal" in shape and size, but I can never get them either comfortable OR sealed very well.  It may just be my ear canals are a bit more angled in a way that's not compatible with the range of fit typical with that design.


----------



## clerkpalmer

hifi80sman said:


> Yeah, what sucks for me is the wrap-around-ear fit just doesn't work.  My ears are "normal" in shape and size, but I can never get them either comfortable OR sealed very well.  It may just be my ear canals are a bit more angled in a way that's not compatible with the range of fit typical with that design.


You will be satisfied with the nuarl just don’t expect too much. My issue with them was the fit. The wings don’t do anything and my right ear kept slipping. Hopefully you can make them work.


----------



## Burakk

Update for WF1000XM3 :
I used my pairs for my 2,5 hours flight trip. It started giving low
Battery alerts after 2 hours. The volume was around 75-80% and anc was active. I watched a
Netflix series from my iPad Pro ( which means the codec was AAC).


----------



## WesennTony

clerkpalmer said:


> I had been sitting on my TRN10 for about a year.  Originally bought them to pair with some chifi iems, but the hiss was unbearable.  On a whim, I grabbed some KZ ZS7s on amazon and paired them back with the TRN10.  In short, the SQ is unsurpassed by anything I have heard to date in a TW iem.  It is better than the MW07 which is my gold standard and it is better than the all-in KZ T1.  The TRN10 is surprisingly comfortable as well.  Obviously, if you are looking for other features such as IP rating, EQ, hear through etc., this is not a solution.  But for SQ only, I am floored. In fact, this may keep me out of chasing higher end TW headsets at least for SQ purposes.  This total solution was under $75 bucks.  I am going to order a new TRN20S from Ali and see if the situation gets any better.  Can't believe I waited this long to give this solution a try.


That makes me want to try BT20S. Do you know which 2-pin version (0.75 or 0.78) matches KZ ZS10 pro? Thanks.


----------



## clerkpalmer

WesennTony said:


> That makes me want to try BT20S. Do you know which 2-pin version (0.75 or 0.78) matches KZ ZS10 pro? Thanks.



Good question.  I think KZ uses .75.  However, my BT10 is .78.  It's working fine with the KZ IEM.  I asked someone smarter than me and they told me the difference between .75 and .78 is so small both will work.


----------



## d3myz

Soreniglio said:


> @Bartig Let's say I can choose between Tranya T3 (Lenovo version with less sub-bass) or QCY T3, which one is the best in your opinion? I prefer something somewhat more balanced overall.


I haven't heard the lenovo's, but I have a love hate relationship with my T3's they are bulky and seal to tight on me. the sound is great, but for me they have too much high treble and the mids are too reduced for my liking. The bass is pretty outstanding. If your using an aptx device or DAC/amp i'd recommend the back bay duo 50's.


----------



## howdy

Burakk said:


> Update for WF1000XM3 :
> I used my pairs for my 2,5 hours flight trip. It started giving low
> Battery alerts after 2 hours. The volume was around 75-80% and anc was active. I watched a
> Netflix series from my iPad Pro ( which means the codec was AAC).


I would exchange if I where you. Everyone is quoting 5-6 with ANC on and 8 hours off. I will be getting a pair soon and will see what hours I can get.


----------



## Bartig

hifi80sman said:


> Curious about the UiiSii as well.  Shill reviews all over the place, but it doesn't mean they're not good.


They are bright for sure, but controlled enough to the point people may dig it a lot. Need further research.


----------



## actorlife

actorlife said:


> Grunt. Can't and won't. Cries and Sighs.


Sale is over rahaha. Phew close one. I almost...


----------



## BigZ12 (Aug 15, 2019)

https://penonaudio.com/lypertek-tevi.html
https://www.lypertek.com/tevi
http://www.hifiheadphones.co.uk/reviews/lypertek-tevi-true-wireless-earphone-review/
If you like all boxes checked...
Sound, 10h battery, AptX/AAC, Usb-c, ipx7, good fit, nice charging case, graphene driver and some Unicorn dust...  And volume control...They have even scented the charging case with a ladies perfume 

Everybody is talking about Mpow, KZ T1 etc all the time. Don't understand that no one will try out these...


----------



## gibletzor

I picked up a set of the Tennmak Whirlwind eartips someone recommended a few pages back.  These are way more comfortable than the stock Mpow T5 eartips!  Sound is great too!  I feel like the bass is slightly more powerful, and I don't feel like I lost anything on the high end either.  Definitely recommend!

I still have a few packs of different kinds of eartips on the way from China, so I'll try those out when they get here, but these are definitely worth the money, in my opinion.


----------



## chinmie

hifi80sman said:


> Yeah, what sucks for me is the wrap-around-ear fit just doesn't work.  My ears are "normal" in shape and size, but I can never get them either comfortable OR sealed very well.  It may just be my ear canals are a bit more angled in a way that's not compatible with the range of fit typical with that design.



my ear canal are also angled a bit, it's different enough that it's visible when looking at the mirror while wearing IEMs, especially more pronounced with deep insertions like the Etymotics. i usually resort to wide and stubby eartips for most of my IEMs so it's more of a shallow insertion. still, i find that using the BT20s are really comfortable, i just have to form the cable one time with heat, and it would stay nicely.

for me personally, any TWS over $100 would be a tough buy, let alone the over 200s, because other than the WF1000XM3 that have ANC tech, the other ones would compete directly with the BT20s combos. 

this one that i use as my EDC is about the same ballpark as the MW07 in price (cheaper even), and it would deliver the same or better sound and longer battery


----------



## chinmie

gibletzor said:


> I picked up a set of the Tennmak Whirlwind eartips someone recommended a few pages back.  These are way more comfortable than the stock Mpow T5 eartips!  Sound is great too!  I feel like the bass is slightly more powerful, and I don't feel like I lost anything on the high end either.  Definitely recommend!
> 
> I still have a few packs of different kinds of eartips on the way from China, so I'll try those out when they get here, but these are definitely worth the money, in my opinion.



glad you like it! it's some of the underappreciated eartips (along with the KZ starline tips) that sounds great. i personally use it on several of my IEMs with the inner ribs removed (snipped it with scissors) if i need a more snug fit


----------



## Caipirina

I am having trouble with my Mifo O5, they won't pair to each other anymore! 

I think I read about this here before, but can't find it. 

Been going through the motions of in / out the case, manually power off / on ... trying the manual 'get into pairing mode' ...  making all ext devices that ever handshook with them forget them and try new pair ...  last time it took me 15 minutes of fiddling around and i finally had them paired again ... listen to music for an hour, back in the case ... this morning same issue and I just don't have the time / patience to go through all that again 

Also did that long reset press and consulted the manual 

Any other smart ideas? Anything substantial I am overlooking?


----------



## Robius (Aug 16, 2019)

So is this the only aptx HD wireless (well, semi wireless) earphone right now? Am I missing one?

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32913556538.html


----------



## rafaelroxalot

Luchyres said:


> I want to get some quick thoughts out while they're fresh.
> 
> I currently have in my posession:
> Nuarl NT01AX Metallic Black ($160ish)
> ...



Why returned the tranya 3?


----------



## rafaelroxalot

Bartig said:


> Oof, where did I find that IP4 rating. I honestly don't know anymore.
> 
> 
> The bass of the T3 is way heavier. Digs deeper too.


Thanks


Caipirina said:


> Best color!
> 
> Like’em so much that for my last marathon back in December I also got the 6xx model with BT, so I could also play music from phone. They had a special sale at the SG marathon expo. Also, nice yellow
> 
> ...



Which model are thar sony? Can really listen to music under water?


----------



## FYLegend

BigZ12 said:


> https://penonaudio.com/lypertek-tevi.html
> https://www.lypertek.com/tevi
> http://www.hifiheadphones.co.uk/reviews/lypertek-tevi-true-wireless-earphone-review/
> If you like all boxes checked...
> ...


If only it had ambient aware and wireless charging they would have been gold. I saw some impressions here the connection quality is disappointing for BT5.0.

I noticed my phone has a death grip of sorts where if I touch the top-left edge near the volume buttons audio will stutter with some of my Bluetooth devices - the Firefly Pro seems immune to this but it happened on the Sabbat E12 and Earfun Free, and to a lesser extent the BE30 UFO.


----------



## ambush.boy

Do people really really listen to music while swimming ? I can't remember the last time I even went swimming. Also I feel the signal degradation from ear to ear will definitely suffer, Also downloading music to a device with only 4-8 gbs reminds me of 2008.


----------



## Caipirina

rafaelroxalot said:


> Which model are thar sony? Can really listen to music under water?



Not wanting to get too off topic here, but these models are those 2: 

 

The main difference being that the 413 model is 'only' a walkman and plays music from internal memory, you cannot connect any other source. The 623 model can connect to any BT source, but keep in mind that BT does not travel well under water (this model ALSO has internal memory, which I use when swimming laps, when running I use BT to phone) 

Both come with 2 different eartip sets, the one for swimming actually has a silicon membrane that covers the ear nozzle which slightly muffles the sound but we are not hopping into the pool for critical listening, are we? 
This keeps them totally waterproof. 

On a side note, for those really fast swimmers: forget listening to audiobooks, as your fast arm swoosh swooosh sound will overpower spoken word ... stick to motivating EDM tracks  

I also like to point out that personally for me the fit and ease of wearing them (and easy to take out one side with one hand while running to listen to someone asking you stuff) are fantastic and one of those is always my back up pair in the gym back ...


----------



## Bartig

After weeeeks of testing and comparing, I’m going to write my Top 5 best sounding true wireless earphones under $50 today. 

Anyone willing to place bets?


----------



## bronco1015

SilverEars said:


> Are you talking about the WFXM3?  It didn't meet my expectations or I was basically disappointed with them.  ANC is a joke, and I think it's not a real ANC like the full-sized WHXM3, and reality is that it's too difficult to make areal working high quality ANC in an iem.  It sounds like the cancelling waves on the low-end was cancelling the subs.  That ANC is nowhere on the level of full-sized.  I don't like the elongated size of the earpieces (reminds me of duchey looking BT earpieces from back in the days).  SQ isn't really good as these Youtube reviewers are hyping them up to be.  It's not even better than cheap wired dynamic driver iems.
> 
> The main issue that I have with TW is that the amps are not driving these dynamic drivers hard enough to get good sound quality.  Bass was a bit mushy and the treble sounded uneven, and like usual, low separation of sounds.  Yeah, not paying $230 for them as I'm fine with the 65t that I paid less than half of that amount for.  For this level of SQ, I just need 'good enough for the gym' level.  I know there are much terrible ones out there (peaky treble or overpowering low-end that skews the tonality), but as long as the tonality is fairly balanced, they are good enough for their deeds.  Other than gym, rest of my time is with wired because of simplicity of no charging and plug and play, and most importantly, sound quality.[/QUOTE The ANC was the biggest reason i had for keeping the WF1000Xm3s. But ultimately, i wasn't crazy about the style after all, the touchpads are still a work in progress as far as toggling through normal, ambiant and ANC, but fine for play pause and track navigation as well as summoning your Voice assistent of choice. i was able to get SQ to a pretty good sound, though with some tracks even at 50% volume and lower, i did hear some distortion in the low end. bass was not high at all in the EQ, maybe a 2. Can't remember the track for sure where i first noticed it, but i have an idea of one specificly i heard it on. if i can successfully jog my memory i'll share which track it was. Tonality, really just soundwise over all, the Momentums have far mor capable drivers though with the worst EQ option ever. But i have found a sound i really like with them via the app so can't complain i suppose.
> The t5s are sadly going back as well. i dropped one in the shower the other day, the right one, and now even after drying it right away, i still have a channel imbalance between left and right. which is a shame because i really liked these all things considered. So for the time being i'll keep rocking the momentums and the 359s. 2 great purchases i need to be happy with and stop looking for other TWS to add to the rotation.


----------



## gibletzor

Bartig said:


> After weeeeks of testing and comparing, I’m going to write my Top 5 best sounding true wireless earphones under $50 today.
> 
> Anyone willing to place bets?


I'm willing to bet money the Mpow T5 and KZ T1 will be towards the top if you're just judging sound quality


----------



## james444 (Aug 16, 2019)

clerkpalmer said:


> James444 if you were faced with 300 to spend, would you go tm2 with included iems or bt20s plus the best iems money can buy for 250? One comment would be I assume the tm2 iem is water resistant whereas most iems may not be so that would be a factor. Thanks!





james444 said:


> I don't have the BT20S yet, so this particular comparison will have to wait.
> 
> The included TM2 IEMs compete very well with the best I've heard. I have a selection of 35 test tracks to detect flaws in IEMs. The TM2 score a 32/35 right out of the box and a 35/35 with a minor damping mod, which is excellent.
> 
> ...



To follow up on the question "Fostex TM2 or BT20S plus the best $250 IEMs": I recently got my BT20S and a pre-production unit of the upcoming $250 JVC FDX1:

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/drop-jvc-ha-fdx1-dual-carbon-iem-available-in-the-us.912737/

These aren't water resistant, of course. But the FDX1 are among the best DD IEMs I know. And the BT20S + FDX1 combo sounds better than the stock TM2 imo. Not head and shoulders superior, but noticeably. Actually, it's the best sounding TWS configuration I have tried so far.


----------



## Caipirina

gibletzor said:


> I'm willing to bet money the Mpow T5 and KZ T1 will be towards the top if you're just judging sound quality



What he said  

I don't expect any big new surprises (like the UiiSii showing up there), the KZ T1 might kick one of these off your current top 5 
1. Mpow T5 - 2. Tranya T3 - 3. Tranya T1-Pro - 4. QCY T3 - 5. Mifo O5

(I think I have to take another look at the QCY T3, though I am kinda done with stem-based TWS)


----------



## Soreniglio

I think I'm probably gonna buy QCY T3 today, I'm willing to spend 35 € and I'll receive them in roughly 3 days (Amazon wonders), while I would have to wait 20 days for the Lenovo HT10.


----------



## Bartig

Haha, nice bets so far. 

Before writing the top 5, I wrote my first review surpassing 1000 words. The UiiSii TWS60 are something else in this price range!


----------



## chinmie

Bartig said:


> Haha, nice bets so far.
> 
> Before writing the top 5, I wrote my first review surpassing 1000 words. The UiiSii TWS60 are something else in this price range!



*"The UiiSii TWS60 may be the only truly wireless earphone under $50 attempting an audiophile tuning where the bass is purely functional."
*
you really should consider reviewing the Nillkin Go next then to compare it, because that in my opinion also went for that kind of tuning. that one got the bass just enough (midbass the same level as mids and treble), but manage to give a low subbass rumble, although not skull shaking intensity.. more like mild massage


----------



## actorlife

Caipirina said:


> What he said
> 
> I don't expect any big new surprises (like the UiiSii showing up there), the KZ T1 might kick one of these off your current top 5
> 1. Mpow T5 - 2. Tranya T3 - 3. Tranya T1-Pro - 4. QCY T3 - 5. Mifo O5
> ...


3 or 4 should be the 359. Too bad they are not available anymore.


----------



## Caipirina (Aug 16, 2019)

actorlife said:


> 3 or 4 should be the 359. Too bad they are not available anymore.



Fun fact: That was the first TWS I had ordered after I came out of headfi hibernation back in May and started reading along here and getting all seduced to throw my money in China's general direction ;D

And while I am still not totally blown away by that one (though it has many reasons to be liked), I am happy I got it! 

I.E. I am somewhat exqually excited about the Blitzwolf FYE5, what a cute blue case! And today I tried the KZ T1's pacifier grade tips on ... and now I like 'em even more


----------



## willyk

Just missed the lighting sale yesterday at Amazon for the MPOW's.

Looking for affordable true wireless earbuds that will stay in while running with 5+ hours of continuous battery life. There are lots of choices - hard to decide.
Reading more of this thread now to do a little learning.

Good thread!  Thanks!!


----------



## Bartig

Man, I'm so ready for my vacation now. 

Here's my top 5 of best sounding true wireless earphones under $50.


----------



## actorlife

Bartig said:


> Man, I'm so ready for my vacation now.
> 
> Here's my top 5 of best sounding true wireless earphones under $50.


No 359 eh. That's right u got fake ones. Happy vacation.


----------



## Caipirina (Aug 16, 2019)

Bartig said:


> Man, I'm so ready for my vacation now.
> 
> Here's my top 5 of best sounding true wireless earphones under $50.



Thanks for that.

Good that I know now that I don't need the UiiSii   I can see the appeal for some, but for what I use my TWS most, probably not my cup of tea.

Your previous list made me look more into the QCY T3 and it really seems to be hit / miss if you get a proper seal ... one guy on YT seems to hate 'em

Happy Vacation!


----------



## chinmie

Bartig said:


> Man, I'm so ready for my vacation now.
> 
> Here's my top 5 of best sounding true wireless earphones under $50.



nice review! have a great vacation


----------



## d3myz

Bartig said:


> Man, I'm so ready for my vacation now.
> 
> Here's my top 5 of best sounding true wireless earphones under $50.


Great Reviews, Thank you!  enjoy your vacay!


----------



## CocaCola15

james444 said:


> The M2 have been among the best TWs I've heard. Sadly they had that channel imbalance fw-bug back when I tried them, but apart from that I've been pretty impressed. Thought about re-ordering them several times, but looks like they're gone for good.
> 
> I've ordered the Cambridge Audio Melomania 1 instead now, will report back when I get them...


What do you think of the Melomania 1?


----------



## james444

CocaCola15 said:


> What do you think of the Melomania 1?



Great, if you're looking for a warm, relaxed, forgiving sound signature and listen mostly at low to medium volume. IMO less suited for commuting and high volume listening.



> Tried the new *Cambridge Audio Melomania 1* true wireless IEMs.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## CocaCola15 (Aug 16, 2019)

james444 said:


> Great, if you're looking for a warm, relaxed, forgiving sound signature and listen mostly at low to medium volume. IMO less suited for commuting and high volume listening.


Thanks. I guess I like that sound. But they are very tip dependent. With the Silicones provided, a bit bright to me, but with foam tips, much better.  I don't listen much at high volumes but they seem to really do a good job out and about, though I have not used them commuting per se or on travel. I am lucky the supplied foam tips work for my small ear canals. Too bad they don't offer larger foam tips in the kit. But thanks! Much appreciate your perspective. I agree with your assessment, though city street sounds are muted enough for walking. Will see how it goes on a noisy train or plane.


----------



## Caipirina (Aug 16, 2019)

Going down the AliX clickhole again, seeing if there is anything new / exciting out there ... but most seems to be rehashes of existing parts, with some attempts a new factors ...

This one caught my eye first because of that same Mifo / KZT1 hinge on the box ... and then I saw that it has USB-C & wireless charging! ... and all that for 20$
Which leads me to believe that maybe only the case is all new, but those buds might be some unpopular leftovers, they do not convince me a bit ... but hey, orange is pretty!




And here is a different approach to the UFO case design ... kinda like it 



But what I would really like ... some smaller buds, like the Haylou GT1 ... or the Anbes 359 and then some smaller ... like bullet or torpedo shaped 

Another current development I am not too fond of are those cases doubling as battery packs, with bigger and bigger mAh numbers ... 2100, 3000, 4000 ... this makes those cases too heavy imho ... of, if they want to offer this, why not create a second lite case, no battery, just some kind of contacts that turn the buds off and magnets to keep em in ... just some extra secure storage ... I would love to create such a lite case for the KZ T1, 3D printing comes to mind, a field in which I have 0 experience ...

Anyone else finding anything? Or we are just all waiting for QC5xxx to hit?


----------



## Boreaquis

IPX7, USB-C, wireless charging case for $20? Now that's impressive, if true. The buds themselves look awful though.


----------



## earache

Received the mpow’s today from the Amazon deal. Looking forward to comparing them to the qcy-t1 and tranya t3. Hoping they are somewhere in the middle of those. The value per $ for today’s tws is simply amazing. Have not used my wired iem’s in a long time.


----------



## hifi80sman

Returning the Nuarl.  They sound good, but they're not much better than my Cowon KY02 or MPOW T5 (which are both very good).  For $160, it's just too much cheap plastic and I just didn't feel I was getting anything exceptional, either in function or build.  If they were $99, I'd probably keep them.

You know that girl you like?  You know, the one that's no good for you, but you still want her so bad anyway and she's "gonna change"?  Well, that's the MW07.  I just purchased the White Marble color at $249 that I'm hoping is a newer build and they quietly put in a better battery.  I'm a moron.


----------



## howdy

hifi80sman said:


> Returning the Nuarl.  They sound good, but they're not much better than my Cowon KY02 or MPOW T5 (which are both very good).  For $160, it's just too much cheap plastic and I just didn't feel I was getting anything exceptional, either in function or build.  If they were $99, I'd probably keep them.
> 
> You know that girl you like?  You know, the one that's no good for you, but you still want her so bad anyway and she's "gonna change"?  Well, that's the MW07.  I just purchased the White Marble color at $249 that I'm hoping is a newer build and they quietly put in a better battery.  I'm a moron.


I'll be giving the Sony Wf1000xm3 a try hopefully next, they are sold out everywhere at least around here. I went to best buy yesterday and they might get some on the 23rd.
Good luck on the MW07, is this your 4th try?


----------



## clerkpalmer (Aug 16, 2019)

hifi80sman said:


> Returning the Nuarl.  They sound good, but they're not much better than my Cowon KY02 or MPOW T5 (which are both very good).  For $160, it's just too much cheap plastic and I just didn't feel I was getting anything exceptional, either in function or build.  If they were $99, I'd probably keep them.
> 
> You know that girl you like?  You know, the one that's no good for you, but you still want her so bad anyway and she's "gonna change"?  Well, that's the MW07.  I just purchased the White Marble color at $249 that I'm hoping is a newer build and they quietly put in a better battery.  I'm a moron.


 
Where did you get the white for 250. They are sexy af.  Edit i see.  Amazon sale. Goddamn it! Must resist.


----------



## willyk

So for a runner, who needs a stable BT connection to a Garmin watch, and a good fit so they stay put, would you guys suggest the MPOW T5 or the Cowin KY02?

Thanks in advance for your suggestions!


----------



## msooffutt

howdy said:


> I'll be giving the Sony Wf1000xm3 a try hopefully next, they are sold out everywhere at least around here. I went to best buy yesterday and they might get some on the 23rd.
> Good luck on the MW07, is this your 4th try?


I’ve been using the Sony’s since they came out and I’m very happy with them.  The app stinks, but it does have an equalizer to fix the default sound.  I’m coming from the MW07s, which I love, but they don’t have the battery life or hear through which I need.  I think the Sony stands toe to toe with the top dogs easily.  I have tried the senns, but took them back because of the battery drain.  I figure these things have a very short life span due to the battery, and having something draining like that will just cut their life much quicker than their competitors.  As far as sound, I think the sony’s sound pretty awesome.  I set the eq at bright and then adjusted it from there.  I haven’t missed the MW07s.  Sony does have to put out a firmware to fix a few things, but for me it’s a winner so far.


----------



## FYLegend

Bartig said:


> Man, I'm so ready for my vacation now.
> 
> Here's my top 5 of best sounding true wireless earphones under $50.





actorlife said:


> No 359 eh. That's right u got fake ones. Happy vacation.


Yeah I noticed that too. I thought Anbes was out of business until I saw that Qi-charging ugly thing (mainly it's the eartips that look bad).

Also, the UiiSii does not have USB Type C.

After a week of using the BE30 Air, I'll soon make final impressions. After modding the filters they sound more balanced. They remind me a bit of Takstar Pro 82 except with no treble peak. Needless to say the problem is not the sound quality but the modifications to the controls and excessive voice messages. (in addition to that British woman heard in many TWS, we also hear what sounds like Ms. Google's voice stretched "maxxximumm volumeee" or "forward/reverse"). I still can't figure out volume controls vs Coolhere UFO.

I also did some more troubleshooting with the Jabees Firefly Pro. It doesn't exhibit the distortion on SBC with my old Sony Xperia Z5, which only has BT 4.1, which leads me to suspect the problem I encountered on my Note 9 and laptop is restricted to BT 5.0 sources. Sometimes it sounds fine for minutes but once I play an upbeat song I hear the distortion (for example, during the sax solo of My Leaving by Kenichiro Nishihara) I had noticed the channels were a bit imbalanced before, but to my liking (left one has a bit more bass, right a bit more treble) but recently the filter on the left has started wearing out and the treble seems to be getting a bit brighter... The filter is made of a stringy felt with so it's difficult to take it off without damaging it. Overall, the Firefly Pro has bone-shattering bass while the Air is more neutral. The Firefly actually seems to resolve more detail with a treble peak, but it also amplifies inherent crackling found in the source track (listen to Murmuration by Blue Wednesday, for example).

Currently I use the Jabees as my phone's daily driver on the go, while the Air is more ideal for PC.


----------



## howdy

I contacted Earin a few days back and they responded with "we are working on New innovative products" and that they are unable to give a release date.
I will be one of the first to buy anything they release as its good stuff. I love my Earin M2. They are one of my main go to's.


----------



## wout0123

Now I found the new tws earphone which supports wireless charing , it is good ?


----------



## hifi80sman

howdy said:


> I'll be giving the Sony Wf1000xm3 a try hopefully next, they are sold out everywhere at least around here. I went to best buy yesterday and they might get some on the 23rd.
> Good luck on the MW07, is this your 4th try?


4th time's a charm!

I'm going to give the WF-1000XM3 a run once they're in stock.  The only thing that I'm not a fan of right from the get go, is the fact it does not have volume control.


----------



## hifi80sman

clerkpalmer said:


> Where did you get the white for 250. They are sexy af.  Edit i see.  Amazon sale. Goddamn it! Must resist.


I know, once I saw the price for that color, I had to pull the trigger.  I'm hoping the newer colors do better with battery.  Testing at the moment...


----------



## hifi80sman

willyk said:


> So for a runner, who needs a stable BT connection to a Garmin watch, and a good fit so they stay put, would you guys suggest the MPOW T5 or the Cowin KY02?
> 
> Thanks in advance for your suggestions!


I haven't had an issue with either when connected to my iPhone Xs Max.  That being said, the Cowin KY02 fit a little better for me and stick out less.  I'd consider them more stable and better suited for running.  The both sound great and support AAC, so either way, you can't lose.  If you need calls, the MPOW T5 handles those quite well.


----------



## Caipirina

willyk said:


> So for a runner, who needs a stable BT connection to a Garmin watch, and a good fit so they stay put, would you guys suggest the MPOW T5 or the Cowin KY02?
> 
> Thanks in advance for your suggestions!



Never connected any buds to apple watch (my Garmin does not do music), but I find the Mpow to be rock solid connected to iPhone 7Plus and they also stay very nicely in my ears, as do the Tranya T3 which I rocked today for 8K  they have a tad more bass umpf which is nice for my running music


----------



## willyk

hifi80sman said:


> I haven't had an issue with either when connected to my iPhone Xs Max.  That being said, the Cowin KY02 fit a little better for me and stick out less.  I'd consider them more stable and better suited for running.  The both sound great and support AAC, so either way, you can't lose.  If you need calls, the MPOW T5 handles those quite well.



Thanks for this advice!


----------



## willyk

Caipirina said:


> Never connected any buds to apple watch (my Garmin does not do music), but I find the Mpow to be rock solid connected to iPhone 7Plus and they also stay very nicely in my ears, as do the Tranya T3 which I rocked today for 8K  they have a tad more bass umpf which is nice for my running music



Thanks for this too!
Decisions!!


----------



## willyk

Just saw that I can get a $30 discount on the Onemore Stylish earbuds - $69.

Better to go with them for my needs?


----------



## clerkpalmer

Not much discussion on these 

https://humanheadphones.com/catalog...GbOyi1eBR5_vjrK5GU2aRvJYkRIe1mrT6Q8Ysp-jkyx78

They look kinda cool. Not sure about 399 and bt 4.2. They would have to sound amazing for me to spend that. Plus they look kinda weird. Not sure what advantage these offer over an regular over ear bt set of cans. Anyone trying these? 399 is over my “why the hell not” price.


----------



## jant71

There is a reason why ear clip phones aren't really popular anymore. Even most snap the Koss one's onto the headband. Even at a good price not sure about the decision to go that form factor. Who really wants it ?


----------



## Mouseman

Anyone have an idea on these? They're on sale on Amazon for $20 with a code - I couldn't find anything on the forum about the brand at all. 


https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B...scom&camp=1789&creative=9325&m=A1Q6T81PLPYCEB

They look kind of like the Tranyas, but not really.


----------



## hifi80sman

clerkpalmer said:


> Not much discussion on these
> 
> https://humanheadphones.com/catalog...GbOyi1eBR5_vjrK5GU2aRvJYkRIe1mrT6Q8Ysp-jkyx78
> 
> They look kinda cool. Not sure about 399 and bt 4.2. They would have to sound amazing for me to spend that. Plus they look kinda weird. Not sure what advantage these offer over an regular over ear bt set of cans. Anyone trying these? 399 is over my “why the hell not” price.


Looks like one of the features is that it can translate, so if both people are using the headphones, it will translate the convo.  Cool, but no instance I would use it.

My guess is that they're stuck with BT 4.2 via purchase agreements due to the time they lingered in development.

A review here, but take it with a grain of salt.  The writer states the mics were "too superior" because they picked up his roommate's conversation 10 feet away.  Um, that's not "superior", that's just bad implementation of mics and cVc or similar technology.  Not sure if anyone has tried the mics on the Bose 700 Headphones, but they are really good in isolating your voice and dampening all background noise.  Quite impressive, actually.  

At $399, I don't see a compelling reason to jump ship over to "Human".


----------



## james444 (Aug 17, 2019)

clerkpalmer said:


> Not much discussion on these
> 
> https://humanheadphones.com/catalog...GbOyi1eBR5_vjrK5GU2aRvJYkRIe1mrT6Q8Ysp-jkyx78
> 
> They look kinda cool. Not sure about 399 and bt 4.2. They would have to sound amazing for me to spend that. Plus they look kinda weird. Not sure what advantage these offer over an regular over ear bt set of cans. Anyone trying these? 399 is over my “why the hell not” price.



I don't see any means of adjustment with these. Ears come in many different sizes and shapes, and with clip-ons, even a small change in placement can cause a huge change in sound.


----------



## gibletzor (Aug 17, 2019)

Android Police has a 15% off code for the Earfun Free right now.  It's *EARFUNTW, *unfortunately it's only for Amazon US.  I'm not sure how good or bad these are but I remember seeing some discussion around here about them.

https://www.amazon.com/EarFun-Bluetooth-Headphones-Waterproof-Earphones/dp/B07R5MKX3K

Just popped up on my Twitter feed a bit ago.


----------



## d3myz

willyk said:


> Just saw that I can get a $30 discount on the Onemore Stylish earbuds - $69.
> 
> Better to go with them for my needs?


I'm not sure what your needs are, but I have a like new pair of black 1more stylishs' that is a week old, I've used them maybe 2x-3x for an hour total. I don't like the fit. I'd be happy to send them your way for $50 plus shipping. DM me if you're interested.


----------



## willyk (Aug 17, 2019)

d3myz said:


> I'm not sure what your needs are, but I have a like new pair of black 1more stylishs' that is a week old, I've used them maybe 2x-3x for an hour total. I don't like the fit. I'd be happy to send them your way for $50 plus shipping. DM me if you're interested.



Thanks a lot for the offer - I appreciate it.

I pulled the trigger on the MPow T5's earlier today.  I certainly hope they measure up to the reviews.  I wanted good, affordable TWS earbuds suited for working out and running.  The Corwin KY02's were an impossibly close second.  If the MPow T5's don't work for me, I am going for the Corwin KY02's.  There are so many excellent options available to those buyers who look under the hood for good value/deals.  I am glad I came back to this site to do some learning.  Head-fi is an excellent resource.

I'll report back next week on the MPow T5's.

<edited to fix the MPow T5 model.  Sorry about that!>


----------



## gibletzor

willyk said:


> Thanks a lot for the offer - I appreciate it.
> 
> I pulled the trigger on the MPow T5's earlier today.  I certainly hope they measure up to the reviews.  I wanted good, affordable TWS earbuds suited for working out and running.  The Corwin KY02's were an impossibly close second.  If the MPow T5's don't work for me, I am going for the Corwin KY02's.  There are so many excellent options available to those buyers who look under the hood for good value/deals.  I am glad I came back to this site to do some learning.  Head-fi is an excellent resource.
> 
> ...



I can't vouch for using them for running, but the T5 sound great and have a super solid connection!


----------



## clerkpalmer

My mpow t5 arrived yesterday. These definitely impressed me. For 30 bucks, I probably haven’t heard anything better in sub 150 category. I think you’d have to go to the rha or Bose to find something that sounds better and the the T5 is close. I wasn’t a believer in the chifi stuff but I am now. The t5 and kz T1 are really excellent. Almost makes spending more money seem silly. The big boys need to up their game.


----------



## Linkoiram

My 359's are on their last legs, one of them had a broken case so I superglue it and sanded it and the buttons fell off. I needed a replacement, so I got the mpow t5

Now my main problem is that twice now the left earbud has disconnected and powered off after an hour of use or so, do you think it is defective? The right earbud works as advertised so I'm questioning whether replacing the tips with spinfits was causing a charging issue, I'll switch to the stock tops later today. Hopefully I don't have to send these back


----------



## actorlife (Aug 17, 2019)

I've been using my Alterola IE600 lately and they are so impressive I'm thinking they sound equally to the MPOW T5's. Bass is really good and clarity is tight up their with the 359. I'm so happy I was able to acquire at least 4 great TWS that I love. I do you use the Syllable S101 for long period listening of audio books, TV and YouTube. I wish the clarity was better, but they are very good for those functions. I mix and use all my TWS and I'm so impressed with them that I don't get any itch to get anything else. Gotta say I was sweating a bit when the T5's were on sale. Phew it was close, but stayed away. My bday is in a couple of months and if on sale the MPOW will be mine. ✌️️✔️:-D


----------



## hifi80sman

clerkpalmer said:


> My mpow t5 arrived yesterday. These definitely impressed me. For 30 bucks, I probably haven’t heard anything better in sub 150 category. I think you’d have to go to the rha or Bose to find something that sounds better and the the T5 is close. I wasn’t a believer in the chifi stuff but I am now. The t5 and kz T1 are really excellent. Almost makes spending more money seem silly. The big boys need to up their game.


Not exactly  Chi-Fi, but I had a $50 Amazon Courtesy Credit that I applied towards these guys, so only out of pocket $20.  BT 5.0, USB-C, AAC, IPX7, Transparent Mode, 5 hour battery + 4x charges in the case w/ fast charging.  Case & buds feel well made.  Haven't tested them out yet (charging).

On another note, I was listening to my MW07 last night while in bed, feel asleep, woke up 3 hours later and they were still playing!  Not exactly scientific, but I'm starting to think the new colors may indeed have a better battery.  Testing more...


----------



## clerkpalmer

hifi80sman said:


> Not exactly  Chi-Fi, but I had a $50 Amazon Courtesy Credit that I applied towards these guys, so only out of pocket $20.  BT 5.0, USB-C, AAC, IPX7, Transparent Mode, 5 hour battery + 4x charges in the case w/ fast charging.  Case & buds feel well made.  Haven't tested them out yet (charging).
> 
> On another note, I was listening to my MW07 last night while in bed, feel asleep, woke up 3 hours later and they were still playing!  Not exactly scientific, but I'm starting to think the new colors may indeed have a better battery.  Testing more...


You are one sick man. And I love it! Report back on the soul and the battery life please. It wouldn’t shock me if they addressed it in firmware quietly. They couldn’t admit it publicly. I think I’m pretty satisfied with my bt10 solution but the mw07 offer sweatproofing.


----------



## gibletzor

hifi80sman said:


> Not exactly  Chi-Fi, but I had a $50 Amazon Courtesy Credit that I applied towards these guys, so only out of pocket $20.  BT 5.0, USB-C, AAC, IPX7, Transparent Mode, 5 hour battery + 4x charges in the case w/ fast charging.  Case & buds feel well made.  Haven't tested them out yet (charging).
> 
> On another note, I was listening to my MW07 last night while in bed, feel asleep, woke up 3 hours later and they were still playing!  Not exactly scientific, but I'm starting to think the new colors may indeed have a better battery.  Testing more...


I looked at those long and hard but passed because of very hard to find reviews.  Very interested in hearing what you think!


----------



## Mouseman

Linkoiram said:


> My 359's are on their last legs, one of them had a broken case so I superglue it and sanded it and the buttons fell off. I needed a replacement, so I got the mpow t5
> 
> Now my main problem is that twice now the left earbud has disconnected and powered off after an hour of use or so, do you think it is defective? The right earbud works as advertised so I'm questioning whether replacing the tips with spinfits was causing a charging issue, I'll switch to the stock tops later today. Hopefully I don't have to send these back


I also had a problem with my first pair, it went back to Bezos. It wasn't connecting automatically and wasn't charging. I think there was a misalignment in the double charging pins, because I could get it to charge if I pushed it forward a bit. Seems like a QC issue. The second set is fine.


----------



## AnakChan

james444 said:


> To follow up on the question "Fostex TM2 or BT20S plus the best $250 IEMs": I recently got my BT20S and a pre-production unit of the upcoming $250 JVC FDX1:
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/drop-jvc-ha-fdx1-dual-carbon-iem-available-in-the-us.912737/
> 
> These aren't water resistant, of course. But the FDX1 are among the best DD IEMs I know. And the BT20S + FDX1 combo sounds better than the stock TM2 imo. Not head and shoulders superior, but noticeably. Actually, it's the best sounding TWS configuration I have tried so far.


Thanks for the comparison. We’re you able two interchange the FDX1 onto the TM2? I’m curious on how much of the difference is the driver, and how much is the receiver units themselves. What are the sonic differences? Also how are the functionality aspect of the BT20S (i.e. music/volume control, ease/difficulty of pairing, etc.)?


----------



## Caipirina

willyk said:


> Just saw that I can get a $30 discount on the Onemore Stylish earbuds - $69.
> 
> Better to go with them for my needs?



I know a 30$ discount is tempting, but I still prefer the Mpow. The 1more get rather little playtime and I find their fit not encouraging for running.


----------



## Caipirina

actorlife said:


> I've been using my Alterola IE600 lately and they are so impressive I'm thinking they sound equally to the MPOW T5's. Bass is really good and clarity is tight up their with the 359. I'm so happy I was able to acquire at least 4 great TWS that I love. I do you use the Syllable S101 for long period listening of audio books, TV and YouTube. I wish the clarity was better, but they are very good for those functions. I mix and use all my TWS and I'm so impressed with them that I don't get any itch to get anything else. Gotta say I was sweating a bit when the T5's were on sale. Phew it was close, but stayed away. My bday is in a couple of months and if on sale the MPOW will be mine. ✌️️✔️:-D



Darn, I still want those Alterola, but can’t find them at a reasonable offer / location / price. 

As for the syllable 101, I have a somewhat soft spot for them. They are not stellar, but I have taken them out for runs and they stayed put (even though the connection crapped out on one run and random button pressing helped)

Wondering which my least fav TWS are. I think I am never warming up to the Havit G1, I think I got them since they reminded me of my dad Jabras, but neither sound nor fit dazzle me.  

Which ones are yours? (General question to everyone)


----------



## chompchomps

Looks like the Mpow T5 is the new crowd favourite. Previously i bought the QCY T1C’s and they were great and still great. is the Mpow a significant upgrade? Just curious if the nozzle is a little narrower.. i found the nozzle of the T1C a bit thick.. making it uncomfy to wear for a few hours..

Where are y’all getting them from?


----------



## paddyberger

My daughter wants some AirPods, she’s only 8 so clones will be fine. Any recommendations from Ali or elsewhere please.

The dog chewed my soundpeats truefree+ so I’ll pick up some MPOW T5 at same time. Thanks all.


----------



## MasterDomino

Much better to buy an actual chi-fi instead of a clones, she will enjoy them more, get her something like haylou gt1 or qcy qs2(T2C).

My post:
Soo lately ive bought QCY T2C to try some tws out, will be thinking of actually modding the case to use USB-C if that isnt any different, either way i got interrested and im thinking about T3 as well at a later date maybe some Mpow T5 or the awei T10C which is what i want i wanted to also attach myself to ask if anyone has bought ones recently and tested them(someone before posted an image of them) would be interresting as idk much about that brand, never bought anything from them.
Yours truly Master


----------



## paddyberger

Things is with kids, it’s not about the sound, it’s the look. My son got the real ones out of his own money, no matter how much I tried to convince him otherwise!


----------



## MasterDomino (Aug 18, 2019)

paddyberger said:


> Things is with kids, it’s not about the sound, it’s the look. My son got the real ones out of his own money, no matter how much I tried to convince him otherwise!


I understand, well... theres many clones on ali, i would suggest buying the cheapest ones to make her rethink her decisions but im just a jerk and will most likely never have kids, but thats a topic that shouldnt be spoken here. Eitherway, i would buy the cheapest ones soo i dont feel the loss of like 5$ on a crappy earphones that will eitherway die after 2 weeks of use, and then tell her about great world of audiophiles.
Yours truly Master.

Edit:
Or just buy both a cheap clones and the better cheap chi-fi and just keep ones as a backup to show her airpods aint the thing. Although as i stated before im a childish guy hahaha, soo maybe im not the right guy for such hints.

Edit2:
If you really want to buy the clones just use search on ali: "tws i50s" or anything like this but i80s, i100s, i500s all of them are most of the time 1:1 copies, but it depends on you what you buy, noone here buys those afaik and i i wouldnt buy them either. Have a wonderful day.
~Master


----------



## Caipirina (Aug 18, 2019)

paddyberger said:


> My daughter wants some AirPods, she’s only 8 so clones will be fine. Any recommendations from Ali or elsewhere please.
> 
> The dog chewed my soundpeats truefree+ so I’ll pick up some MPOW T5 at same time. Thanks all.



I have dabbled a bit in that arena and found the i60 to be worth my money and they are pretty awesome for 25$

but there is a big BUT coming

I liked them enough that I thought wife-y should also get a pair. Ordered the SAME from the SAME vendor, but got something else. Cheaper looks with big blue / red lights flashing, inferior sound ...  (still saying i60 on the box, same box, guess they got a different supplier in the meantime ... )

Bottomline, I recommend to either buy in shop if possible and try out, or educate child (i recall 8 being a difficult age) that it is NOT about looks ... (can you imagine her coming home from school, crying, her friends finding out that hers are 'fake' ??? Kids can be SO cruel) 

Some related image humor / uncanny photoshop wizerdry I just came across on AliX 



There is a youtuber (roderick something) that has tested all kinds of iterations of the iXX (or by now iXXX and I even saw i9999) versions of the clones ... maybe some cheapish i12 might be enough ...


----------



## MasterDomino (Aug 18, 2019)

Caipirina said:


> I have dabbled a bit in that arena and found the i60 to be worth my money and they are pretty awesome for 25$
> 
> but there is a big BUT coming
> 
> ...


The educating part i cant agree more on, i know by myself how much of a jerk children can be, also the photo is quite funny, didnt see this one before.


----------



## paddyberger

Thanks both for the helpful replies. Like I mentioned, kids are into the aesthetics and what their friends have, no matter how much you try and educate them.

Hopefully they will both learn but that’s not for now.

They are between 10-30 pounds and it’s not a life changing amount for her happiness. (Or not as the case maybe!) So I’ll get the least worst ones and see how we go from there.

I’ll have a look at that YouTube video and take a punt. Thanks.


----------



## Soreniglio

paddyberger said:


> Thanks both for the helpful replies. Like I mentioned, kids are into the aesthetics and what their friends have, no matter how much you try and educate them.
> 
> Hopefully they will both learn but that’s not for now.
> 
> ...


You could buy them the "QCY T3" or the "Anker Liberty Air", they're both good quality and resemble the Airpods in style.


----------



## Soreniglio

Or these:


----------



## Caipirina

paddyberger said:


> Thanks both for the helpful replies. Like I mentioned, kids are into the aesthetics and what their friends have, no matter how much you try and educate them.
> 
> Hopefully they will both learn but that’s not for now.
> 
> ...



I got the i7 as a freebie from AliExpress and those are now to be had for 5$ ... they are about 20% bigger than the original, but even they stay connected and play music ok-ish ... have not tested the battery life, but I suspect they sent me an old show room model and seems the battery is done after 30 minutes ...  from what I gathered, the i30 is ok if you don't need wireless charging and the i60 even have that


----------



## actorlife (Aug 18, 2019)

Caipirina said:


> Darn, I still want those Alterola, but can’t find them at a reasonable offer / location / price.
> 
> As for the syllable 101, I have a somewhat soft spot for them. They are not stellar, but I have taken them out for runs and they stayed put (even though the connection crapped out on one run and random button pressing helped)
> 
> ...



Honestly I've been using the Syllables alot lately because of the 10hr battery life and keep the 359/Aterola/Hoopshop for music/movies mostly. Like I've said before if they were a bit clearer they'd be my favorite. My least favorites soundwise would be the X-18S then the Syllables. I also don't detect aptx sq any better on my Cayin N3 with the S101. I still rate my favorites the same in my overview. 359(SBC is fantastic) just has a beautiful soundstage and clarity that they are still my favorites. Maybe the MPOW will knock them out, but we will see. Budget is still tight as ever.  I honestly don't think you'll need the Aterola after getting the MPOW or KZ. Unless you want them part of the collection.  If anyone is still looking for the Anbes 359 just get the Kissral R18.


----------



## howdy

@hifi80sman are you liking the newer MW07? Does it seem better than the previous 3? I'm really considering getting piano black. I would have to get some sort custom tip made as I always had a hard time getting a seal in my right ear (due to my ear as I've had issues with other IEMs).


----------



## WesennTony

clerkpalmer said:


> Good question.  I think KZ uses .75.  However, my BT10 is .78.  It's working fine with the KZ IEM.  I asked someone smarter than me and they told me the difference between .75 and .78 is so small both will work.


OK, thanks. Ordered 0.78 version. Then I realized that they may not be so convenient for on-the-go without charging case, pairing separately etc. Also ordered KZ ZS10 pro, but sound harsh to me even wired.


----------



## paddyberger (Aug 18, 2019)

Thanks, I picked the i200 up for about 18GBP, cheers.


----------



## MasterDomino

I actually wasnt able to stop myself soo i bought QCY T3, cant cant for more interresting tws im gonna buy in the future. Awei seems interresting with T10C, some Mpow T5 and maybe the Edifier ones which also got me interrested.


----------



## cittris

FYLegend said:


> No, the DOGO company just asked me if I wanted to buy some of their Bluetooth speakers and had one of the TWS listed in the message as well. I only just registered on Alibaba and was browsing through some of their TWS products and shortly thereafter I got an inquiry from them, even though I never messaged them. Coincidence maybe, but I'm not sure if sellers can easily see who is viewing on Alibaba or not...
> 
> On Aliexpress I've only seen BE30 UFOs being sold as "Anbes" and an unbranded "HKMR" sold by "JD techology Store". Coolhere themselves is an almost unheard of brand listed on some Chinese sites - they had the UFO as well as a bluetooth over-ear . DOGO has a new BE30E coming up with slightly different housings.
> 
> ...



Hey mate, sorry for not replying sooner.

That's super interesting i wonder if they can see users browsing.

The controls on my LETSCOM buds are as follows.
Single tap = play/pause, Hold left/right = Previous/next track, Double tap left/right = volume down/up

So different to both the ones you described. Also i get driver flex.
The overall sound if balanced left and right (when it works) and the bass is heavy but not overpowering.

So in your experience was getting a 2nd set from the same seller worth it? 
I also have a pair of QCY T1Pro's which are great but lack bass/lows.


----------



## james444

AnakChan said:


> Thanks for the comparison. We’re you able two interchange the FDX1 onto the TM2? I’m curious on how much of the difference is the driver, and how much is the receiver units themselves. What are the sonic differences? Also how are the functionality aspect of the BT20S (i.e. music/volume control, ease/difficulty of pairing, etc.)?



I haven't tried the FDX1 with the TM2 yet, but will do so and report back. I actually plan to use the TM2 with more customs-like IEMs than the FDX1 and just ordered the 2-pin adapter for that purpose. I'm not sure if the TM2 + FDX1 will stay in place securely enough to use it for outdoor activitiy. The BT20S is not nearly as sophisticated as the TM2, but it grips more securely around my ears and holds the earpieces firmly in place.


----------



## FYLegend

cittris said:


> Hey mate, sorry for not replying sooner.
> 
> That's super interesting i wonder if they can see users browsing.
> 
> ...


Sounds like you got a legit Letscom BE30, just in an unbranded box. I do wonder if these were all repacked because they failed QC in some way or another...

Your description of the sound is more consistent with the second pair than the Coolhere UFO. It's rather neutral with a slant towards the bass - left bud having a bit more mids and treble. Coolhere UFO sounded brighter on both sides, but the bass gone wrong on the left side being boomy and punchy while relatively neutral to no-existent on the right bud. Aside from lack of volume control and the irritating voice messages, I'm quite satisfied with the second product. Connectivity also seems better than Coolhere UFO.

I didn't mind keeping the first one for the case and thought it might be possible to use the buds interchangeably, but this turned out not to be the case. The Coolhere UFO only allows for the right bud being used mono, while the Air allows either bud to be used (it will vary which bud is primary and secondary each time you take them out). The charging case is the only thing that's cross-compatible.


----------



## chinmie

curious... i didn't know that Realtek based TWS can support APTX? i thought it is Qualcomm exclusive? 

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33055350431.html


----------



## gibletzor (Aug 19, 2019)

I picked up a pair of Galaxy buds last week after debating for a while about what I should pick up.  I've been a Samsung user for years now and I've always been very happy with their products.  My first impressions were really negative.  They sounded tinny and had very little bass.  It was all highs and mids and even those didn't sound all that great.  But I got to looking at them and noticed the stock ear tips cover up most of the end of the nozzle.  I had some generic silicon tips from some old Motorola headphones in my bag at work so I popped them on.  It was a night and day difference!  They have bass!  They don't sound like crap!  I'd say they're on par with the Aukey T10 for sound quality.  The bass isn't quite as powerful, but the highs aren't as overpowering either.  My Mpow T5 still sound better overall though.
The ambient mode is cool and useful, but definitely has an "unnatural" feel to it.  You can definitely tell you're not just hearing the sounds and they're being processed heavily.
Touch controls are very responsive and way better than what the Aukey T10 had.
Comfort is comparable to the Mpow with my Tennmak Whirlwind tips.

Overall pretty happy!  So if you have the Galaxy Buds and didn't enjoy the sound, try ear tips with a wider opening!


----------



## Caipirina

paddyberger said:


> Thanks, I picked the i200 up for about 18GBP, cheers.



They sure are having fun with the naming / number game ...


----------



## riodgarp

Caipirina said:


> I am having trouble with my Mifo O5, they won't pair to each other anymore!
> 
> I think I read about this here before, but can't find it.
> 
> ...



try to charge its case with the buds are inside?


----------



## Caipirina

riodgarp said:


> try to charge its case with the buds are inside?



That's how I usually do it


----------



## Soreniglio (Aug 19, 2019)

I highly suspect that the Soundpeats TruePods are basically the QCY T3 with a different eartip version.
The build looks literally the same, the case was copycat too.

As soon as I gather up enough money I'll compare my upcoming QCY T3 (2 days left) to my REALLY FAR LATER Soundpeats lol


----------



## Caipirina

Soreniglio said:


> I highly suspect that the Soundpeats TruePods are basically the QCY T3 with a different eartip version.
> The build looks literally the same, the case was copycat too.
> 
> As soon as I gather up enough money I'll compare my upcoming QCY T3 (2 days left) to my REALLY FAR LATER Soundpeats lol




I think you could be right ... looking at this photo from one of the AliX feedbacks, that shows what the QCY looks like under the 'weird' silicon tip, one could imagine that SoundPeats covered that with some rubber material, and then just used a regular tip on the front end ... but the SQ might be different .. I see at least one air vent potentially covered by the Soundpeat rubber cover


 

Notice that the Soundpeats has USB C port, while QCY has microUSB 

Looking forward to your comparison (eventually)


----------



## Caipirina

Every now and then I browse around hoping to find something 'new' ... not yet another airpod clone, not the same pill shape ... 

well, be careful what you wish for:

 

"Comfortable" is the last word that comes to mind when I see those   there's no silicon ear tip, nor some earbud style round shape ... 

who's gonna try those?


----------



## Soreniglio

QCC3026, and they look lit AF, if only I had the money


----------



## Mouseman

Caipirina said:


> Every now and then I browse around hoping to find something 'new' ... not yet another airpod clone, not the same pill shape ...
> 
> well, be careful what you wish for:
> 
> ...


That looks....uncomfortable....


----------



## actorlife (Aug 19, 2019)

Well this is a turnaround that I would never thought would happen. The X-18S have amazingly opened up and the treble is now beautiful sparkly. Soundstage is a bit there not bad, but nowhere near 359.
After listening to an audiobook I noticed a clearer SQ and decided to play my go to song I Was Wrong by Chris Stapleton and was blown away.
The bass was always good, but now clearly pronounced. Holy crap. 4.2BT, 3.5 battery and no volume control is the only let down, but for $13 they totally are enjoyable. I will update my overview. Whoa what a great surprise. I now have 5 out of 6 that totally enjoy. If you want a backup get these and run some music for a week. I bought these on ebay earlier this year and boy am I happy I got these. I'll try and see if the call quality is good sometime this week.
Link: https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https://www.ebay.com/ulk/itm/273967194325


----------



## Cretz42 (Aug 19, 2019)

blomman77 said:


> Well i got the lenovo yesterday,and i have only listened to it for a couple of hours.
> The first thing that got my attention was that it looks identical to the the tranya T3,except the control button. The case is also identical except that the lid is not transparen like the Tranya,and a different color to the case.
> The reviewer that said he could not control anything but play pause must of had a faulty one or a version 1 or something,cause my pair can control both track skipping and volume.
> 
> ...



Looking at the Lenovos. Do they have mono mode? Really don't understand why more TWS earbuds/earphones don't have the simple functionality to take only one side out (either one, doesn't matter which) and use while the other stays in the case.


----------



## FYLegend

Another Type C + Qi option from INSMA. Realtek + AptX doesn't seem to add up though... https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33055350431.html?spm=a2g0s.8937460.0.0.7a282e0eIU28wx


----------



## willyk

Wanted to say THANKS! for the advice to buy the MPow T5's.
Got them today and they are really great.  Perfect fit and a wonderful, balanced sound.


----------



## jant71

Like stated on the Walkman Blog, looks like Sony will have another one coming...the WF-H800


----------



## Luchyres

jant71 said:


> Like stated on the Walkman Blog, looks like Sony will have another one coming...the WF-H800




Ergghhh lol, after just returning the WF-1000XM3, I'm still pretty interested to find out more about these - thanks for posting.


----------



## jant71 (Aug 19, 2019)

Don't care about NC or some of that stuff but might be interested if they adopted the 4GB on board like the SP900. Otherwise the Backbay are solid enough till new stuff comes along. The things I want for the future is on board storage, on board/no app EQ settings, TWS(no master salve), and magnetic attaching buds with on/off so you can leave the case home if you want(and enough battery life to do it ~ 15H is good enough) 

Hopefully Sony has them do something different or I don't see the interest. They can't just strip things from the 1000 and put a cheap price.


----------



## Luchyres

jant71 said:


> magnetic attaching buds with on/off so you can leave the case home if you want(and enough battery life to do it ~ 15H



Now that is an idea I like. I value having a relatively slim case - pocket-ability being valued at a premium- but also being able to turn off the buds and set them aside clipped together is very appealing to me. I'd be fine if they have 8H - I want a big dynamic driver in there if I get my choice. I also care not at all about ANC. Good call quality is very important, but passive isolation is all that I want.


----------



## d3myz

Caipirina said:


> Every now and then I browse around hoping to find something 'new' ... not yet another airpod clone, not the same pill shape ...
> 
> well, be careful what you wish for:
> 
> ...


I don't trust alien technology.


----------



## jant71

Caipirina said:


> Every now and then I browse around hoping to find something 'new' ... not yet another airpod clone, not the same pill shape ...
> 
> well, be careful what you wish for:
> 
> ...



Says they are 2.2 grams each side. Probably cause they are empty


----------



## Caipirina

FYLegend said:


> Another Type C + Qi option from INSMA. Realtek + AptX doesn't seem to add up though... https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33055350431.html?spm=a2g0s.8937460.0.0.7a282e0eIU28wx



Saw then last night as well and found it highly suspicious how casually AptX is mentioned (not as a big selling point) ... only available in 2 Insma stores (they seem to focus on rebranding stuff) and 93% rating .... that's too many red flags for me ...


----------



## DigDub

https://fccid.io/AK8WFH800

The new Sony wf-h800 could be unveiled on 21 Sept based on the confidentiality request.


----------



## willyk

After listening for an afternoon, the large tips that come with the MPow T5 work the best for me.

If I wanted to explore 3rd party tips (maybe there's something even better?) what would you guys recommend?


----------



## Caipirina

jant71 said:


> Says they are 2.2 grams each side. Probably cause they are empty



or made of paper ... they DO look like origami


----------



## gibletzor

willyk said:


> After listening for an afternoon, the large tips that come with the MPow T5 work the best for me.
> 
> If I wanted to explore 3rd party tips (maybe there's something even better?) what would you guys recommend?



I'm enjoying these more than the stock ones so far.


----------



## willyk

gibletzor said:


> I'm enjoying these more than the stock ones so far.



Thanks for the quick reply!

Anyone know what size nozzle is on the MPow T5?


----------



## BigZ12 (Aug 20, 2019)

.


----------



## CardigdanWalk

Caipirina said:


> Every now and then I browse around hoping to find something 'new' ... not yet another airpod clone, not the same pill shape ...
> 
> well, be careful what you wish for:
> 
> ...



These look beautiful 

Completely impractical, probably sounds awful, but I love the style!


----------



## igorneumann

Caipirina said:


> Every now and then I browse around hoping to find something 'new' ... not yet another airpod clone, not the same pill shape ...
> 
> well, be careful what you wish for:
> 
> ...



What! 

Those make the painful to use KZ ZS5/6/7 look anatomical in comparison... 
Even the not-fit-for-humans BA10 look more comfy!


----------



## Caipirina

CardigdanWalk said:


> These look beautiful
> 
> Completely impractical, probably sounds awful, but I love the style!



I love that they dare to be new / different ....  if they were on the sub 20$ side, I might jump and try ...


----------



## Caipirina

igorneumann said:


> What!
> 
> Those make the painful to use KZ ZS5/6/7 look anatomical in comparison...
> Even the not-fit-for-humans BA10 look more comfy!


----------



## chinmie

igorneumann said:


> What!
> 
> Those make the painful to use KZ ZS5/6/7 look anatomical in comparison...
> Even the not-fit-for-humans BA10 look more comfy!



looks comfortable to us


----------



## ARISTISIMON

Hi, I've just returned a pair of Cowin KY02, because the lid was loose. I liked the sound a lot, the soundstage was enjoyable for me, but it was just a little bit too bassy for my taste. I'm thinking if buying them again or buying the Back Bay Duet 50 (I like more the design). I've read some comments in this thread, but wanted to know after some time what's the main impression of the Duets for you guys. Also, which ones would you recommend? (I know the Mpow are good, but I couldn't find them in my country).

Thanks for your help!


----------



## HiFlight

ARISTISIMON said:


> Hi, I've just returned a pair of Cowin KY02, because the lid was loose. I liked the sound a lot, the soundstage was enjoyable for me, but it was just a little bit too bassy for my taste. I'm thinking if buying them again or buying the Back Bay Duet 50 (I like more the design). I've read some comments in this thread, but wanted to know after some time what's the main impression of the Duets for you guys. Also, which ones would you recommend? (I know the Mpow are good, but I couldn't find them in my country).
> 
> Thanks for your help!


I have been using the Duet 50's for quite some time now and they have proven to check all my boxes:  Small size/great fit, AptX, 9 hour play, and rock-solid connection.  Tonality and overall tuning is reminiscent of a good over-ear set of cans.  Support and customer service is US-based. 

I currently have 3 sets of TWS phones, the Jabra elite active 65t, Duet 50 and Mavin Air-X.   I enjoy all 3 for different reasons and would be hard-pressed to pick an all-around favorite.   I will say that in all 3, I have had to use tips other than those supplied with the phones.  Tips and correct seal is essential for optimum performance!


----------



## ARISTISIMON

HiFlight said:


> I have been using the Duet 50's for quite some time now and they have proven to check all my boxes:  Small size/great fit, AptX, 9 hour play, and rock-solid connection.  Tonality and overall tuning is reminiscent of a good over-ear set of cans.  Support and customer service is US-based.
> 
> I currently have 3 sets of TWS phones, the Jabra elite active 65t, Duet 50 and Mavin Air-X.   I enjoy all 3 for different reasons and would be hard-pressed to pick an all-around favorite.   I will say that in all 3, I have had to use tips other than those supplied with the phones.  Tips and correct seal is essential for optimum performance!




Thanks for your response! I've just bought them, but I'll have to wait 10 days for them to arrive (which is like 7 months in real life). What kind of tips are you using with the Duets?


----------



## HiFlight

ARISTISIMON said:


> Thanks for your response! I've just bought them, but I'll have to wait 10 days for them to arrive (which is like 7 months in real life). What kind of tips are you using with the Duets?



I use the UE900 green core (L).   These are shallow fit and just cover the ear canal rather than insert into it.  They are very soft silicon and extremely comfortable.  I use them for nearly all of my IEM's.  (These tips are also available in other sizes)


----------



## DigDub

And the UFO has landed.


----------



## igorneumann

Caipirina said:


>



HAhahaha so you have all of them? 
Why do you hate your ears?

That said after commenting I saw that the OTHER side is round, so... probably better.


----------



## igorneumann

DigDub said:


> And the UFO has landed.



WAIT, wasn't you who said the Sony was endgame and wouldn't need to look anywhere else?
How do they compare to the Sony?


----------



## DigDub

igorneumann said:


> WAIT, wasn't you who said the Sony was endgame and wouldn't need to look anywhere else?
> How do they compare to the Sony?


This is an addiction! 

The Sony is still better, better timbre, better resolution. The Anbes are more compact though.


----------



## Caipirina

igorneumann said:


> HAhahaha so you have all of them?
> Why do you hate your ears?
> 
> That said after commenting I saw that the OTHER side is round, so... probably better.



one can never have enough IEMs


----------



## actorlife (Aug 20, 2019)

DigDub said:


> This is an addiction!
> 
> The Sony is still better, better timbre, better resolution. The Anbes are more compact though.


Would be willing to compare the UFO(Not Anbes 359 SQ quality) to the Kissral R18?


----------



## hifi80sman

Soul Electronics ST-XS2
Similar form factor to the MPOW T5, except it has removable silicon sleeves (with and without ear hooks).  No aptX, but does have AAC, USB-C, Fast Charge, Ambient Mode, IPX7, and 5 hours playtime (20 hours more in case).  They are well built with good fabrication.  Largest ear tips were a bit small for me, so I replaced them with some Sony L ear tips.  Good overall comfort and great for the gym.  Controls are a bit different, in that there is no Vol control and no track reverse.  However, the controls are duplicated on each bud (play/pause, ambient, track forward), which I assume is because they are geared for active users that may only have 1 hand free at any given time.  While I would have preferred Vol control and track reverse, I'm OK with the control scheme because I'll likely primarily use them at the gym.  Calls semed to work well.  I was reported as sounding loud and clear (in a quiet office).  I have not tested in a loud environment or in the car, etc.

As far as sound, they sound really good.  They have a nice sub-bass, but it's a subtle accentuation and adds some nice texture.  Bass is solid, punchy, and not messy.  Vocals sit right there in the mix and are not recessed.  Highs are a bit rolled off (similar to Sony), which I happen to like (I'm not a fan of super treble forward or "neutral" signatures).  Overall, they have the same form factor as the MPOW T5, and while they sound a bit different, I would place them on the same level.  Definitely recommend.

Master & Dynamic MW07
I was able to squeeze out a total playtime of 3 hours, 16 mins before they just died and about 2 hours and 40 mins or so before the low battery warning.  So far, this is the best I've experienced on any of the MW07s I've had.  The Matte Black and Steel Blue had horrible battery life.  Low battery at like 1 hours 30 mins or something.  Just pathetic.  The Tortoiseshell was better, but it _*looks like*_ the new colors may have definitely improved upon the battery life, either via firmware or new batter supplier.  Still not the best for calls.


----------



## sanity8me

Any recommendations for TWS IEMs that would allow for me to hear ambient noise? 

I plan to use them when I go on rides on my road bike. Also would like to use them at work so hoping the call quality is solid.

IPX7 would be ideal. I prefer a warm, not so bright sound signature. Has to be comfortable, but I know that can be subjective.

I'm aware of the soul electronics st-xs2 and that they have a transparent mode. Any other options?


----------



## willyk

Any other suggestions for alternate tips for the MPow T5's?

Thanks!


----------



## d3myz

willyk said:


> Any other suggestions for alternate tips for the MPow T5's?
> 
> Thanks!


I'm a huge fan of the JVC Victor Spiral dots. They are soft and come in 5 sizes, but they are expensive.


----------



## willyk

d3myz said:


> I'm a huge fan of the JVC Victor Spiral dots. They are soft and come in 5 sizes, but they are expensive.


Thanks!

Do you happen to know the nozzle size for the T5's?


----------



## d3myz

4mm. it's the same as the Anbes 359, QCY T1 series, Tiso i4, Back Bay Duet 50, and the Tranya T3, Funcl W1, 1more stylish etc. it's pretty universal. https://penonaudio.com/jvc-spiral-dot-silicone-eartips.html


----------



## d3myz

Just wanted to mention, that after 2 solid weeks, i'm returning the Back Bay Duet 50's. Great battery life, comfort and connectivity, but they just don't sound that great via Iphone XS Max. Aptx via my Hackintosh sounds good, but with lower quality stuff, Like certain audio books, they sound downright terrible when compared to the QCY t1-pro, Anbes 359 and especially the t5. I'm bummed and i think if they were $25-30 I may consider keeping them, but for $42 it's a deal breaker.


----------



## willyk (Aug 20, 2019)

Thanks for that info!

I use the large tips that came with the T5's.  Do the Dots run about the same size?  Will they fit in the T5 case?


----------



## sanity8me

hifi80sman said:


> Soul Electronics ST-XS2
> Similar form factor to the MPOW T5, except it has removable silicon sleeves (with and without ear hooks).  No aptX, but does have AAC, USB-C, Fast Charge, Ambient Mode, IPX7, and 5 hours playtime (20 hours more in case).  They are well built with good fabrication.  Largest ear tips were a bit small for me, so I replaced them with some Sony L ear tips.  Good overall comfort and great for the gym.  Controls are a bit different, in that there is no Vol control and no track reverse.  However, the controls are duplicated on each bud (play/pause, ambient, track forward), which I assume is because they are geared for active users that may only have 1 hand free at any given time.  While I would have preferred Vol control and track reverse, I'm OK with the control scheme because I'll likely primarily use them at the gym.  Calls semed to work well.  I was reported as sounding loud and clear (in a quiet office).  I have not tested in a loud environment or in the car, etc.
> 
> As far as sound, they sound really good.  They have a nice sub-bass, but it's a subtle accentuation and adds some nice texture.  Bass is solid, punchy, and not messy.  Vocals sit right there in the mix and are not recessed.  Highs are a bit rolled off (similar to Sony), which I happen to like (I'm not a fan of super treble forward or "neutral" signatures).  Overall, they have the same form factor as the MPOW T5, and while they sound a bit different, I would place them on the same level.  Definitely recommend.
> ...



Man, you have impeccable timing with your impressions of the ST-XS2.

I'm concerned with the fact that they don't have aptx. How does their sound compare to more higher end IEMs?

Also, would their be audio sync issues when watching movies?


----------



## d3myz

The Dots are slightly larger, i'd go with M/L size if you use the L MPOW tips.  

Pictured is the spiral dot M/S, Mpow M, Spiral Dot M, Mpow L and Spiral dot L


----------



## WesennTony (Aug 20, 2019)

hifi80sman said:


> Soul Electronics ST-XS2
> Similar form factor to the MPOW T5, except it has removable silicon sleeves (with and without ear hooks).  No aptX, but does have AAC, USB-C, Fast Charge, Ambient Mode, IPX7, and 5 hours playtime (20 hours more in case).  They are well built with good fabrication.  Largest ear tips were a bit small for me, so I replaced them with some Sony L ear tips.  Good overall comfort and great for the gym.  Controls are a bit different, in that there is no Vol control and no track reverse.  However, the controls are duplicated on each bud (play/pause, ambient, track forward), which I assume is because they are geared for active users that may only have 1 hand free at any given time.  While I would have preferred Vol control and track reverse, I'm OK with the control scheme because I'll likely primarily use them at the gym.  Calls semed to work well.  I was reported as sounding loud and clear (in a quiet office).  I have not tested in a loud environment or in the car, etc.
> 
> As far as sound, they sound really good.  They have a nice sub-bass, but it's a subtle accentuation and adds some nice texture.  Bass is solid, punchy, and not messy.  Vocals sit right there in the mix and are not recessed.  Highs are a bit rolled off (similar to Sony), which I happen to like (I'm not a fan of super treble forward or "neutral" signatures).  Overall, they have the same form factor as the MPOW T5, and while they sound a bit different, I would place them on the same level.  Definitely recommend.
> ...


Thanks for the info. Maybe third time try of MW07... Just returned Sony WF-1000XM3, not very impressed overall.  Still need a better looking TWS for travel/commute.


----------



## willyk

d3myz said:


> The Dots are slightly larger, i'd go with M/L size if you use the L MPOW tips.
> 
> Pictured is the spiral dot M/S, Mpow M, Spiral Dot M, Mpow L and Spiral dot L



This is excellent info.
Also appreciate the link in the earlier post.
Thanks!!


----------



## d3myz

willyk said:


> This is excellent info.
> Also appreciate the link in the earlier post.
> Thanks!!


Happy to help!


----------



## robcf3

Are these the Anbes? Can't see them under that name in the UK: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Microphone-Bluetooth-Headphones-Earphones-Waterproof/dp/B07M912QW5


----------



## Ascariss

DigDub said:


> https://fccid.io/AK8WFH800
> 
> The new Sony wf-h800 could be unveiled on 21 Sept based on the confidentiality request.



Hi there, walkmanblog owner here, the documents which Sony wants to have hidden from view temporarily will become available on September 21st, this means that the headset can be announced before then, ie IFA 2019 or even afterwards. For example the WI-XB400, an affordable wireless headset, yet to be officially announced has had its documents already unsealed on the FCC. They should show up in stores shortly.

As for the WF-H800, it might be part of the the new H. Ear on/in line, along with the updated WH-H910N and they should both debut at IFA 2019, along with the WI-1000XM2 successor to the WI-1000X from IFA 2017. Unlike the new WF-1000XM3, the upcoming WI-1000XM2 will have LDAC support. If people wish to see how it looks like, I have entire blog post on my site showing off the entire design of the WI-1000XM2, I can post a link if people wish.

Anyways, I would not expect the WF-H800 to be better than the WF-1000XM3, as they will probably be positioned lower in the lineup.

Finally to any expects out there, I have a question, is Sony's LDAC codec a software, hardware or HW/SW based codec? Meaning, do Sony's headphones which support LDAC had a dedicated hardware decoder on board for the codec or can it be done all using software, ie loaded into flash memory onboard the device. Or is it a combination of both hardware and software? This is not my area of expertise and I am trying to determine if Sony has to add a dedicated hardware decoder for LDAC on their headphones since the WF-1000XM3 lacks LDAC but the upcoming WI-1000XM2 has LDAC support. So I wonder if the space inside the new WI-1000XM2 is enough to support a hardware decoder, where as the smaller WF-1000XM3, with its limited space lacks the space for the hardware decoder. Of course this theory goes out the window if the codec is only software and requires no hardware.

Perhaps it is software based and decoding it takes a lot of power and the limited battery on the WF-1000XM3 wouldn't last as long in other devices with larger batteries like WH-1000XM3 or the new WI-1000XM2. I don't know, this why I am asking. cheers.


----------



## willyk

d3myz said:


> The Dots are slightly larger, i'd go with M/L size if you use the L MPOW tips.
> 
> Pictured is the spiral dot M/S, Mpow M, Spiral Dot M, Mpow L and Spiral dot L



Bought them.
I'll report back!
Thanks again!!


----------



## hifi80sman

sanity8me said:


> Man, you have impeccable timing with your impressions of the ST-XS2.
> 
> I'm concerned with the fact that they don't have aptx. How does their sound compare to more higher end IEMs?
> 
> Also, would their be audio sync issues when watching movies?


There's a little lag with *YouTube *via iPhone Xs Max over AAC.  It's not unwatchable, but definitely noticeable.  *Amazon Prime Video* and *Hulu *are in perfect sync.  I don't have Netflix, but I'm sure that's proabbly good as well.  It's just YouTube that's a bit off.

As far as sound, when you say higher end IEM, I assume you're just referring to wireless.  It's really good, but it's not going to be at the level of the MW07, which to me, rivals many wired mid-rangers.  Not sure if you've tried the Creative Outlier Air, but it's around that level.


----------



## sanity8me

hifi80sman said:


> There's a little lag with *YouTube *via iPhone Xs Max over AAC.  It's not unwatchable, but definitely noticeable.  *Amazon Prime Video* and *Hulu *are in perfect sync.  I don't have Netflix, but I'm sure that's proabbly good as well.  It's just YouTube that's a bit off.
> 
> As far as sound, when you say higher end IEM, I assume you're just referring to wireless.  It's really good, but it's not going to be at the level of the MW07, which to me, rivals many wired mid-rangers.  Not sure if you've tried the Creative Outlier Air, but it's around that level.



Thanks for your input.

I guess I should downgrade my SQ expectations for an IPX7 rated TWS IEM at this point 

Would you know of any other solid options that offer ambient sound passthrough like these or the new Sony wf-1000xm3, but with an IPX rating?


----------



## vstolpner

Woot, got my Wavefun XPods3!

Going to see how they compare to everything else on my shelf 

First impression: that case is tiny compared to others!


----------



## DDDYKI

I just got the Creative Outlier Air today and immediately took them outside in midtown Manhattan. BT interference really sucks, even with my phone in a chest pocket on my messenger bag. They sound very good when the music doesn't stutter & the left ear doesn't go out, though. The button on each ear is a little awkward to press like other reviews have said. Haven't decided if I'm going to keep them or not.


----------



## DigDub

actorlife said:


> Would be willing to compare the UFO(Not Anbes 359 SQ quality) to the Kissral R18?


I can't get the kissral r18 to test. But from what I'm hearing from the UFO, the sound quality should be close or same to the Anbes 359 - great soundstage, prominent mids and highs and tight bass.


----------



## hifi80sman (Aug 20, 2019)

sanity8me said:


> Thanks for your input.
> 
> I guess I should downgrade my SQ expectations for an IPX7 rated TWS IEM at this point
> 
> Would you know of any other solid options that offer ambient sound passthrough like these or the new Sony wf-1000xm3, but with an IPX rating?


I enjoy the Soul, so I would recommend them for gym use, especially if you want IPX7.  The MPOW T5 is also another great choice.

If you're OK spending more...

The B&O E8 is "sweat resistant", but I couldn't find an IP rating.  They have a newer E8 Motion, which basically says the same thing, but I can tell you the E8 is in that 2nd tier of top-level sounding TWS'.  Soundwise, I'd put the MW07 on top by themselves, but it's not a battery champ or something you'd really want to wear to the gym (they're sooo sex-ay).  I'd place the E8, RHA TrueConnect (IPX5, no ambient mode), and Momentum True Wireless (IPX4) in that 2nd top-level.


----------



## sanity8me

hifi80sman said:


> I enjoy the Soul, so I would recommend them for gym use, especially if you want IPX7.  The MPOW T5 is also another great choice.
> 
> If you're OK spending more...
> 
> The B&O E8 is "sweat resistant", but I couldn't find an IP rating.  They have a newer E8 Motion, which basically says the same thing, but I can tell you the E8 is in that 2nd tier of top-level sounding TWS'.  Soundwise, I'd put the MW07 on top by themselves, but it's not a battery champ or something you'd really want to wear to the gym (they're sooo sex-ay).  I'd place the E8, RHA TrueConnect (IPX5, no ambient mode), and Momentum True Wireless (IPX4) in that 2nd top-level.



Holy crap those E8 Motion's are gorgeous and so tempting...

Think I'm in over my head though. For now I'll just stick with my over ears for my higher end audio fix - casual portable listening sessions for my Meze 66 Classics and sit down sessions for my Hifiman Ananda's. 

The T5 you mentioned won't work since they don't have ambient noise passthrough.

Just surprised that nothing else is available sub-$150 with an IPX and ambient noise passthrough besides the Soul's. Oh well - thank you nonetheless.


----------



## gibletzor

sanity8me said:


> Holy **** those E8 Motion's are gorgeous and so tempting...
> 
> Think I'm in over my head though. For now I'll just stick with my over ears for my higher end audio fix - casual portable listening sessions for my Meze 66 Classics and sit down sessions for my Hifiman Ananda's.
> 
> ...



There's these, but I couldn't find a single review outside Amazon.

The Galaxy Buds are IPX2 rated.  Not as protected as some other options, but shouldn't have any problems with sweat from exercising.


----------



## actorlife

robcf3 said:


> Are these the Anbes? Can't see them under that name in the UK: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Microphone-Bluetooth-Headphones-Earphones-Waterproof/dp/B07M912QW5


If you can buy both and return one. No logo on the case is an indication that they are not Anbes. Get these or both:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Kissral-Bl...s=Kissral+R18&qid=1566352642&s=gateway&sr=8-1


----------



## actorlife (Aug 20, 2019)

DigDub said:


> I can't get the kissral r18 to test. But from what I'm hearing from the UFO, the sound quality should be close or same to the Anbes 359 - great soundstage, prominent mids and highs and tight bass.


Sound like the 359. I can't wait for your impressions. I've been waiting for you to get them for a long while. You lucked out to get a good pair.


----------



## actorlife

vstolpner said:


> Woot, got my Wavefun XPods3!
> 
> Going to see how they compare to everything else on my shelf
> 
> First impression: that case is tiny compared to others!


And here I thought you were out of the game. Looking forward to comparisons to the MPOW and 359.


----------



## vstolpner

actorlife said:


> And here I thought you were out of the game. Looking forward to comparisons to the MPOW and 359.



I was out.... And then they pulled me back in!!!!!
Not really, just got an email from AliExpress Freebies program


----------



## TK33

sanity8me said:


> Any recommendations for TWS IEMs that would allow for me to hear ambient noise?
> 
> I plan to use them when I go on rides on my road bike. Also would like to use them at work so hoping the call quality is solid.
> 
> ...



Have you looked at the Jabra Active Elite 65t? I may have missed something since I am still catching up on all the posts today.  They are only IPX56 but I would think they would be sufficient for cycling. I was looking for wireless buds to use for cycling as well and came across those ($150 at Costco).  They have Hearthrough, which I believe is their version of Ambient Mode. I have not tried them myself but the regular 65t seems well regarded. 

I couldn't resist a 30% off offer (in store scratchoff promo) from Harman and picked up a pair of JBL Reflect Flow (IPX7) yesterday. The ambient mode isn't great though compared to the MTW and you would really need to crank the volume to hear the music after factoring in wind noise which leads me to believe I will end up riding with just one ear and ambient mode off (Reflect Flows lower the music volume too much in ambient mode). I think ambient mode is great in concept but with the wind noise, not practical.  Sound is decent and what I expected from JBL, V shaped, good bass which don't muddy the mids and well balanced but the mids seemed a bit thin to me (not a fan of the stock tips too). So you know where I am coming from, I spent the last decade mostly listening to my Shure SE530 (broken), SE535 and SE425, and still use the last two today. I also thought the MTWs had too much bass for my taste (but with those, I can at least EQ). The sound signature of the Reflect Flow isn't really my thing but I don't mind for workouts (more concerned about waterproof and convenience).

Without an app to EQ and only SBC, I don't think they are worth the money.  However, for the $105 I paid, I will probably still keep them for cycling and as a backup for when the MTW battery dies on me since these are IPX7 and supposed to have a 10 hour battery life (30 hrs including case). I also like having ambient mode so I can hear the announcements on the train and subway during my commute.


----------



## actorlife

vstolpner said:


> I was out.... And then they pulled me back in!!!!!
> Not really, just got an email from AliExpress Freebies program


Freebies program. Holy crap. Now I wanna join that program.


----------



## vstolpner

actorlife said:


> Freebies program. Holy crap. Now I wanna join that program.



Yeah go for it! Based on my calculations it should take something like 10 years to win something... But then I won after playing for a couple months, so there you go... Lol


----------



## snip3r77

If anbes 359 and mpow t5 are similarly priced . Which one should one buy?


----------



## Caipirina (Aug 21, 2019)

vstolpner said:


> Yeah go for it! Based on my calculations it should take something like 10 years to win something... But then I won after playing for a couple months, so there you go... Lol



CONGRATS!!! WHat did you get?

My experience with that program has been ... well .. MIXED ... I 'won' rather quickly a pair of cheap ass i7 airpod clones ... they took forever to arrive, were not the advertized color and from 'no box, looks used' I guess they sent me an old showroom model

Please please share with me if / how you managed to do that crazy review 'homework' ... this is very different from the usual review writing ... I tried like 5 times and in the end the AI always told me that I was not responding to the suggested points correctly

I have the suspicion that as long your freebie is traveling and until you write your review you cannot get another freebie ...
for more details and mental review writing prep, see my post from Aug 4

EDIT:  I just spent another hour on this and lo-and-behold ... i finally got passed that pesky AI and now it sits in 'waiting to be approved' ... it appears that the kicker was that you seemingly have to add a photo to each single category, no matter how shoddy it might be. Of course I was thrown off by the message telling me that I failed following 'the tips' ...


----------



## Caipirina

robcf3 said:


> Are these the Anbes? Can't see them under that name in the UK: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Microphone-Bluetooth-Headphones-Earphones-Waterproof/dp/B07M912QW5



Sure looks like the same housing ...  and I recall someone here was posting about their amber light UFO model ...


----------



## igorneumann

Caipirina said:


> one can never have enough IEMs



With almost 50 units laying around... I totally get it.

But the ZS5 and ZS6 was enough to give a pass on the ZS7 and BA10.
Hurt me once, hurt me twice...


----------



## Caipirina (Aug 21, 2019)

igorneumann said:


> With almost 50 units laying around... I totally get it.
> 
> But the ZS5 and ZS6 was enough to give a pass on the ZS7 and BA10.
> Hurt me once, hurt me twice...



I never really do sessions over 1h ...   and somehow I really just wanted the BA because of the ironman look  ... then the ZS6 i bought last .. because .. metal & red    ... yeah .. bit crazy ...


----------



## Audiokuluttaja

KZ T1 in the nearby post office ready to be picked up. Let's see what the fuss about SQ is..


----------



## igorneumann

Caipirina said:


> I never really do sessions over 1h ...   and somehow I really just wanted the BA because of the ironman look  ... then the ZS6 i bought last .. because .. metal & red    ... yeah .. bit crazy ...



Well, Im constantly tempted to get the ZS7 just because of how veryone (and their dogs) describe its bass.

But then I know Ill replace the eartips by foam ones so it doesnt hurt me so badly and lose some bass in the way making it pointless.


----------



## CardigdanWalk

Ascariss said:


> Finally to any expects out there, I have a question, is Sony's LDAC codec a software, hardware or HW/SW based codec? Meaning, do Sony's headphones which support LDAC had a dedicated hardware decoder on board for the codec or can it be done all using software, ie loaded into flash memory onboard the device. Or is it a combination of both hardware and software? This is not my area of expertise and I am trying to determine if Sony has to add a dedicated hardware decoder for LDAC on their headphones since the WF-1000XM3 lacks LDAC but the upcoming WI-1000XM2 has LDAC support. So I wonder if the space inside the new WI-1000XM2 is enough to support a hardware decoder, where as the smaller WF-1000XM3, with its limited space lacks the space for the hardware decoder. Of course this theory goes out the window if the codec is only software and requires no hardware.
> 
> Perhaps it is software based and decoding it takes a lot of power and the limited battery on the WF-1000XM3 wouldn't last as long in other devices with larger batteries like WH-1000XM3 or the new WI-1000XM2. I don't know, this why I am asking. cheers.



I’m not an expert either, but I would check out : maybe ask in the Radsone ES100 thread. As I think they added LDAC support to that device post launch via a firmware upgrade, and so there might be people with more knowledge with regards to it on it.


----------



## Caipirina

Back to TWS ... has anyone here ever tried (successfully) this mini pill form factor? This looks like it would be nice for sleeping, unless the pillow manages to press the buttons  



 

I did order one set (under the name Teamyo) which arrived defective and it took me a while to sort out the dispute (crackling noise in one bud was very hard to capture on video and that bud heating up beyond comfortable was also hard to proof)

Still curious about something that small .. might be great for meditation


----------



## DigDub

actorlife said:


> Sound like the 359. I can't wait for your impressions. I've been waiting for you to get them for a long while. You lucked out to get a good pair.


As with the set that another member got here, mine has no volume control. The sound quality is good, can be sibilant at  at times due to the brighter mids-highs. Soundstage is almost holographic, very good wide sense of space.


----------



## Audiokuluttaja

Audiokuluttaja said:


> KZ T1 in the nearby post office ready to be picked up. Let's see what the fuss about SQ is..



Pairing: easy and quick. Didn't have to turn them on or anything. Was charging them in the case for about 1hr and then removed after which they were found below the list of my regular bluetooth appliances in my SE.

Fit: I don't have the smallest ears so very nice, I barely feel them. The cover looks like it was made for my ear size. Using medium tips, might go for the large ones. I have sort of "easy ears" which means that stuff that goes in them usually fits snugly. (edit: went for the large one's and they were _really snug_, noticed the tip going inside out when pulling them off. Don't like the ones that came with the T1 but I had extra tips at home, medium size and now the fit is really nice. I think the sound is even better as well.)

SQ: I like, have to listen more but so far I've listened to French rap and house music (lots of vocals and base) from Tidal and it has been an enjoyable experience. The bass is nice for my taste, not too over whelming.

Touch controls: have not tried and most likely will not, I bought them for SQ, not to make calls and I usually fix tunes sound with my phone even with my WH-100XM3's.

Volume control: for my taste I have found a sweet spot about 4 or 5 clicks from max volume on my iPhone SE, there is a slight change and the appropriate volume (for myself) is found between those two depending on the song.

Going to bike to the gym now to see how they how up in ears while being sweaty and also interested in whether they create extra noise in my ears due to the wind or am I able to listen to music "normally".


----------



## Bhelpoori

CardigdanWalk said:


> I’m not an expert either, but I would check out : maybe ask in the Radsone ES100 thread. As I think they added LDAC support to that device post launch via a firmware upgrade, and so there might be people with more knowledge with regards to it on it.


The big two requirements for LDAC are Sony licensing and Bluetooth EDR for the 990kbps.  

EDR is an optional part of the Bluetooth spec up to 4.x and is effectively replaced by the new Bluetooth "Low Energy" 2Mbps spec in 5.x+. I suspect the issue here is actually not the implementation but the requirement for EDR (or equivalent). 

I don't think the licensing applies for LDAC in this case 

The ES100 shows that LDAC decode is just software provided you have the CPU/Memory/Bluetooth in the SoC (System on a Chip) to do it. However, the ES100 has a much more capable SoC (CSR8675), much more memory and a larger battery compared with the SoC(s) in a typical true wireless headphone, so it may also be due to SoC/battery limitations too... and if you are doing two independent streams rather than master/slave then both SoCs in both ears would need to decode EDR which would be really difficult to get to work resiliently in ear. If you have master/slave, I see little reason technically why you would want LDAC given the limitation on the NFC radio going between ears, but it is nice marketing I suppose...


----------



## openyoureyes

Hello,

i'm still looking for some TWS mit multipoint connections - without any success (beside the high latency Jabras).

It seems that the new Qualcomm-Series *(QCC300X,QCC30XX,QCC51XX)* don't support multipoint connections. There is no information in the datasheets. The datasheet for the older CSR8645 on the other hand says: "A2DP multipoint support: 2 A2DP sources". Did they really drop something highly useful like multipoint connections with the new chip series?!


----------



## sanity8me

gibletzor said:


> There's these, but I couldn't find a single review outside Amazon.
> 
> The Galaxy Buds are IPX2 rated.  Not as protected as some other options, but shouldn't have any problems with sweat from exercising.



Thanks for checking.  Yeah, I saw these - customer reviews don't seem too good and unfortunately that's the only thing I can go by with these...

Regarding the Galaxy Buds - just checked and they do have an ambient sound passthrough mode.  Are they any good?

I could be wrong, but I wonder if all that's really necessary for an ambient sound passthrough mode is a mic and special software...


----------



## sanity8me

TK33 said:


> Have you looked at the Jabra Active Elite 65t? I may have missed something since I am still catching up on all the posts today.  They are only IPX56 but I would think they would be sufficient for cycling. I was looking for wireless buds to use for cycling as well and came across those ($150 at Costco).  They have Hearthrough, which I believe is their version of Ambient Mode. I have not tried them myself but the regular 65t seems well regarded.
> 
> I couldn't resist a 30% off offer (in store scratchoff promo) from Harman and picked up a pair of JBL Reflect Flow (IPX7) yesterday. The ambient mode isn't great though compared to the MTW and you would really need to crank the volume to hear the music after factoring in wind noise which leads me to believe I will end up riding with just one ear and ambient mode off (Reflect Flows lower the music volume too much in ambient mode). I think ambient mode is great in concept but with the wind noise, not practical.  Sound is decent and what I expected from JBL, V shaped, good bass which don't muddy the mids and well balanced but the mids seemed a bit thin to me (not a fan of the stock tips too). So you know where I am coming from, I spent the last decade mostly listening to my Shure SE530 (broken), SE535 and SE425, and still use the last two today. I also thought the MTWs had too much bass for my taste (but with those, I can at least EQ). The sound signature of the Reflect Flow isn't really my thing but I don't mind for workouts (more concerned about waterproof and convenience).
> 
> Without an app to EQ and only SBC, I don't think they are worth the money.  However, for the $105 I paid, I will probably still keep them for cycling and as a backup for when the MTW battery dies on me since these are IPX7 and supposed to have a 10 hour battery life (30 hrs including case). I also like having ambient mode so I can hear the announcements on the train and subway during my commute.



I just don't trust Jabra with prioritizing SQ, unless it's for phone calls.  Maybe I'm wrong...

Regarding the JBL Reflect Flow - never even heard of them.  Yeah, I'm reading that their ambient mode is kind of a hack since it basically just turns down the music.

Would you recommend your MTW if they were closer to $150? Reviews are mixed...


----------



## gibletzor (Aug 21, 2019)

sanity8me said:


> Thanks for checking.  Yeah, I saw these - customer reviews don't seem too good and unfortunately that's the only thing I can go by with these...
> 
> Regarding the Galaxy Buds - just checked and they do have an ambient sound passthrough mode.  Are they any good?
> 
> I could be wrong, but I wonder if all that's really necessary for an ambient sound passthrough mode is a mic and special software...



My early impressions of Galaxy Buds from a few pages back:  
"I picked up a pair of Galaxy buds last week after debating for a while about what I should pick up. I've been a Samsung user for years now and I've always been very happy with their products. My first impressions were really negative. They sounded tinny and had very little bass. It was all highs and mids and even those didn't sound all that great. But I got to looking at them and noticed the stock ear tips cover up most of the end of the nozzle. I had some generic silicon tips from some old Motorola headphones in my bag at work so I popped them on. It was a night and day difference! They have bass! They don't sound like crap! I'd say they're on par with the Aukey T10 for sound quality. The bass isn't quite as powerful, but the highs aren't as overpowering either. My Mpow T5 still sound better overall though.
The ambient mode is cool and useful, but definitely has an "unnatural" feel to it. You can definitely tell you're not just hearing the sounds and they're being processed heavily.
Touch controls are very responsive and way better than what the Aukey T10 had.
Comfort is comparable to the Mpow with my Tennmak Whirlwind tips.

Overall pretty happy! So if you have the Galaxy Buds and didn't enjoy the sound, try ear tips with a wider opening!"

I'm very happy with them so far.  I haven't tried the ambient mode out walking the dog yet, but it worked well in the car as a passenger.  I could hear my daughter and wife talking just fine as long as I didn't have the music blasting.


----------



## james444

AnakChan said:


> Thanks for the comparison. We’re you able two interchange the FDX1 onto the TM2? I’m curious on how much of the difference is the driver, and how much is the receiver units themselves. What are the sonic differences? Also how are the functionality aspect of the BT20S (i.e. music/volume control, ease/difficulty of pairing, etc.)?





james444 said:


> I haven't tried the FDX1 with the TM2 yet, but will do so and report back. I actually plan to use the TM2 with more customs-like IEMs than the FDX1 and just ordered the 2-pin adapter for that purpose. I'm not sure if the TM2 + FDX1 will stay in place securely enough to use it for outdoor activitiy. The BT20S is not nearly as sophisticated as the TM2, but it grips more securely around my ears and holds the earpieces firmly in place.



I finally found time to try the FDX1 with the Fostex TM2:






It takes some time to change earpieces and BT-connection between the BT20S and TM2, so the comparison is just from memory. But I think the TM2 sound slightly better than the BT20S, probably because they drive the FDX1 with a little more authority. However, the FDX1 are rather easy to drive and the BT20S, too, are able to drive them to very decent SQ.

As far as ergonomics go, I personally prefer the BT20S. They hold the earpieces more securely in place, whereas the grip around my ears with the TM2 feels always a bit loose in comparison. Plus, I'm having a rather unharmonious relationship with the TM2's touchpad, lol.

(In case you wonder what those adhesive strips on the TM2 are for, that's my feeble attempt to make the touchpad less sensitive.)


----------



## TK33

sanity8me said:


> I just don't trust Jabra with prioritizing SQ, unless it's for phone calls.  Maybe I'm wrong...
> 
> Regarding the JBL Reflect Flow - never even heard of them.  Yeah, I'm reading that their ambient mode is kind of a hack since it basically just turns down the music.
> 
> Would you recommend your MTW if they were closer to $150? Reviews are mixed...



I have been using the MTW for commuting for the last 2 weeks and have not had any issues with them. The ambient mode and SQ are better than I expected but I am new to this tech.  I haven't had battery issues yet since I usually plug in all my devices when I get to the office.  My commute is about an hour and half each way. 

I would not use them for cycling/exercise due to limited battery life (supposedly 3 hours), lack of those fins which make them feel less secure and stable to me, and they are not the most comfortable.  I do get some ear fatigue after extended use. 

I should note, I don't use them for calls. Even with wired IEMs, I just never got comfortable talking with something in my ear so I always pull them out to take a call.


----------



## Audiokuluttaja

Audiokuluttaja said:


> Pairing: easy and quick. Didn't have to turn them on or anything. Was charging them in the case for about 1hr and then removed after which they were found below the list of my regular bluetooth appliances in my SE.
> 
> Fit: I don't have the smallest ears so very nice, I barely feel them. The cover looks like it was made for my ear size. Using medium tips, might go for the large ones. I have sort of "easy ears" which means that stuff that goes in them usually fits snugly. (edit: went for the large one's and they were _really snug_, noticed the tip going inside out when pulling them off. Don't like the ones that came with the T1 but I had extra tips at home, medium size and now the fit is really nice. I think the sound is even better as well.)
> 
> ...



Cycling, gym and groceries done. I didn't have to adjust the volume event though it's a windy day. The bugs keep wind noice nicely out, I think if I cycled with my WH-1000XM3's it would most likely not be any better, I never use them for sport as they are like ear muffs during winter: head overheats. 

For the 38€ shipped these will definitely go as a good purchase in my books. Have not tried(nor will I) calling, and adjusting everything from my iphone SE works for me. During cycling the buds lost connection a few times but after changing the phone to another pocket that was empty the issue was gone. I presume my cards were interfering with the signal as a few days ago shop alarm went off in a few different shops and my wallet was to blame hehe..

Not once have I had to adjust them during the 3,5hrs I've been listening them to, not even when being super sweaty at the gym. Currently the battery looks to be some where between 60-70%. 

The best thing after SQ is that I barely notice these! I guess after 3.5hrs any uncomfortableness would have surfaced but no, I could wear these all day.  For music I will most likely choose these, for movies/series/an so on the Sony's.


----------



## actorlife

snip3r77 said:


> If anbes 359 and mpow t5 are similarly priced . Which one should one buy?


Get both and be done.


----------



## bubsdaddy

actorlife said:


> Get both and be done.



Don't mislead him. We are never done.


----------



## hifi80sman (Aug 21, 2019)

sanity8me said:


> I just don't trust Jabra with prioritizing SQ, unless it's for phone calls.  Maybe I'm wrong...
> 
> Regarding the JBL Reflect Flow - never even heard of them.  Yeah, I'm reading that their ambient mode is kind of a hack since it basically just turns down the music.
> 
> Would you recommend your MTW if they were closer to $150? Reviews are mixed...


The Jabra 65t have "good" SQ, but many of the top Chi-Fi are better (Anbes 359, MPOW T5).  The Soul sounds better than the Jabra 65t IMHO.  The Jabra are a little "boring" and have a narrow EQ range.  "Vanilla" sound.

Not a fan of JBL.  They only roll with SBC in most of their cheesy wireless stuff, that's also overpriced.

The Galaxy buds are good, very clean/clear sound, AAC, responsive touch controls, and have a solid feature set, however, they're bass light and do not EQ well in that department.  They'll begin to distort when you try to ramp up the bass.  If you enjoy bass, I would not recommend.  If you don't need bass, they are a good choice, however...

...if you can get the MTW for around $150, that's probably the best solution for you.  Great sound (in that second tier behind the MW07), ambient, decent calls, satisfactory touch controls (a little slow response time, so takes a bit to get used to), good fit for most, AAC, aptX-LL.  As long as you plug the case in every 2 days or so, you'll be fine.  It's the best balance of features/sound.


----------



## sanity8me

hifi80sman said:


> The Jabra 65t have "good" SQ, but many of the top Chi-Fi are better (Anbes 359, MPOW T5).  The Soul sounds better than the Jabra 65t IMHO.  The Jabra are a little "boring" and have a narrow EQ range.  "Vanilla" sound.
> 
> Not a fan of JBL.  They only roll with SBC in most of their cheesy wireless stuff, that's also overpriced.
> 
> ...



Based on what TK33 said, it looks like the battery life for the MTW wouldn't work for me.  Plus, at ~$300 it's currently way over what I'd like to spend right now.

Leaning towards the ST-XS2's at this point.

I have a feeling that Sony is going to release an active/sport variant of their WF-1000XM3... and I'm sure it won't be cheap.


----------



## vstolpner

Caipirina said:


> CONGRATS!!! WHat did you get?
> 
> My experience with that program has been ... well .. MIXED ... I 'won' rather quickly a pair of cheap ass i7 airpod clones ... they took forever to arrive, were not the advertized color and from 'no box, looks used' I guess they sent me an old showroom model
> 
> ...



Thanks. Got the Wavefun Xpods 3.

Can't say there is much not to like about the freebie program since its... well... free 

Not sure what you mean by "crazy review homework"?

I haven't written the review yet - just barely breaking them in for now. I'll post my review on here once done as well.

I'll keep note of the photo suggestion - thanks.


----------



## z1mb1o (Aug 21, 2019)

Got my Lenovo HT10s, they sound great and get very loud. 
They seal well, but the rubber tips get uncomfortable for me.
I had good experiences with comply foam tips in the past but I dont know if theres ones that fit these. 
Need to do some extended tests on battery life etc. but so far they feel really well built.


----------



## Caipirina

vstolpner said:


> Not sure what you mean by "crazy review homework"?



You will, once you get to it (also, you obviously did not follow the link I posted, to my previous post   )


----------



## gibletzor

hifi80sman said:


> The Jabra 65t have "good" SQ, but many of the top Chi-Fi are better (Anbes 359, MPOW T5).  The Soul sounds better than the Jabra 65t IMHO.  The Jabra are a little "boring" and have a narrow EQ range.  "Vanilla" sound.
> 
> Not a fan of JBL.  They only roll with SBC in most of their cheesy wireless stuff, that's also overpriced.
> 
> ...



Try some wider tips on the Galaxy Buds.  The bass is there, it's just hidden by the stock tips!


----------



## hifi80sman

sanity8me said:


> Based on what TK33 said, it looks like the battery life for the MTW wouldn't work for me.  Plus, at ~$300 it's currently way over what I'd like to spend right now.
> 
> Leaning towards the ST-XS2's at this point.
> 
> I have a feeling that Sony is going to release an active/sport variant of their WF-1000XM3... and I'm sure it won't be cheap.


If you buy from Amazon US, then returns if they don't work for you, wont be an issue (unless you're a chronic returner).  They're the most budget friendly earbuds with good sound/ambient that I've found.  The ambient mode BTW is good and has great pickup.  It does, however, pick up the wind noise, so if your outdoors, that could be an issue.

The new Sonys will probably come in around $179 ($50 less) than the WF-1000XM3.  I think that's the current retail for the WF-SP700N (what a sexy name).


----------



## turbomustang84

I've tried many wireless earbuds/IEMs and the one I like best is my Sony WF1000X the only issue is the crap battery life so I'm hoping the new model will do better


----------



## hifi80sman

gibletzor said:


> Try some wider tips on the Galaxy Buds.  The bass is there, it's just hidden by the stock tips!


Yeah, I have...I'm a recovering basshead.


----------



## hifi80sman

Inserting find...on accident.

Pulled out my MW07, which auto-connected to my iPhone.  Without disconnecting, I paired them to my Galaxy s8, and they paired!  Played Spotify on the s8 and was able to get incoming calls on my iPhone!

MW07 has multipoint!


----------



## d3myz

openyoureyes said:


> Hello,
> 
> i'm still looking for some TWS mit multipoint connections - without any success (beside the high latency Jabras).
> 
> It seems that the new Qualcomm-Series *(QCC300X,QCC30XX,QCC51XX)* don't support multipoint connections. There is no information in the datasheets. The datasheet for the older CSR8645 on the other hand says: "A2DP multipoint support: 2 A2DP sources". Did they really drop something highly useful like multipoint connections with the new chip series?!


By multi point connections do you mean the chipsets ability to connect to multiple devices at once or are you talking about True Wireless Stereo Plus etc?


----------



## FYLegend

DigDub said:


> As with the set that another member got here, mine has no volume control. The sound quality is good, can be sibilant at  at times due to the brighter mids-highs. Soundstage is almost holographic, very good wide sense of space.


Is this the "Air" or another rebrand? Does it have obnoxious voice messages for everything? I found thr air more subdued and congested _compared_ to Coolhere UFO, also hisses on the left bud a bit (nothing like Jabra though). Unless I removed the filter, the right bud sounded rolled off in the treble, but taking it off made it too sibilant compared to the right one. It took some testing out the ratio of foam size and density to balance the mids and treble. With the varied impressions here, some saying the Air sounds the same as legit Anbes, but others saying there are worse sounding units,  I'm not sure what to think. Aside from Earfun Free I've yet to get a budget TWS with well-balanced channels.

If Kissral dies out as well Letscom and Yineme is probably your safest bet. Monster has Airlinks HD if you want different aesthetics for 100$... I'm curious about the DOGO BE30E, with redesigned housings. Haven't seen a seller listing yet.


----------



## vstolpner

Caipirina said:


> You will, once you get to it (also, you obviously did not follow the link I posted, to my previous post   )



Yeah I saw that later, thought you were taking about something else. Kind of crazy how detailed that review needs to be.

Oh well, I'm doing that anyway for my own review so not too concerned.

Just in the final process of breaking them in. Figure one more day and they'll be ready for review Friday.


----------



## DigDub

FYLegend said:


> Is this the "Air" or another rebrand? Does it have obnoxious voice messages for everything? I found thr air more subdued and congested _compared_ to Coolhere UFO, also hisses on the left bud a bit (nothing like Jabra though). Unless I removed the filter, the right bud sounded rolled off in the treble, but taking it off made it too sibilant compared to the right one. It took some testing out the ratio of foam size and density to balance the mids and treble. With the varied impressions here, some saying the Air sounds the same as legit Anbes, but others saying there are worse sounding units,  I'm not sure what to think. Aside from Earfun Free I've yet to get a budget TWS with well-balanced channels.
> 
> If Kissral dies out as well Letscom and Yineme is probably your safest bet. Monster has Airlinks HD if you want different aesthetics for 100$... I'm curious about the DOGO BE30E, with redesigned housings. Haven't seen a seller listing yet.


Yes mine shows up as Air in the bluetooth listing. I don't hear hiss on mine though. The sound is quite well articulated and open, not congested. The nozzle is oval shaped, and there's a lady speaking English "reverse" "forward" "primary" "secondary" which I find quite useful.


----------



## FYLegend

DigDub said:


> Yes mine shows up as Air in the bluetooth listing. I don't hear hiss on mine though. The sound is quite well articulated and open, not congested. The nozzle is oval shaped, and there's a lady speaking English "reverse" "forward" "primary" "secondary" which I find quite useful.


Overall I don't find them congested, but the Coolhere UFO just sounds more airy, but also as if someone cranked up the EQ rather than an actual difference. It is useful for some extent but I personally find the dialogue rather irritating at times. I think it's partly because it sounds like the Google voice stretched out, yet there's still that familiar British woman saying all the basic commands (pairing, power on, your headset is connected...). The problem for me is that the "forward" and "reverse" interfere a bit with the start of a track though even without it, sometimes a track will start distorted anyways.

After removing the nozzle filters and looking at the drivers, it seems like they are somewhat asymmetric. On the left, I see a metal plate with 4 holes on each corner (though one hole seems more like a small dent in the metal), but on the right it seems there's only 3 holes. My current configuration is to have no filters on the right, and LOTS of foam on the left to tone down the midrange and treble.


----------



## DigDub

FYLegend said:


> Overall I don't find them congested, but the Coolhere UFO just sounds more airy, but also as if someone cranked up the EQ rather than an actual difference. It is useful for some extent but I personally find the dialogue rather irritating at times. I think it's partly because it sounds like the Google voice stretched out, yet there's still that familiar British woman saying all the basic commands (pairing, power on, your headset is connected...). The problem for me is that the "forward" and "reverse" interfere a bit with the start of a track though even without it, sometimes a track will start distorted anyways.
> 
> After removing the nozzle filters and looking at the drivers, it seems like they are somewhat asymmetric. On the left, I see a metal plate with 4 holes on each corner (though one hole seems more like a small dent in the metal), but on the right it seems there's only 3 holes. My current configuration is to have no filters on the right, and LOTS of foam on the left to tone down the midrange and treble.


It seems like you may have a faulty pair? Mine sounds the same for the left and right buds. I'm just waiting for the silicone pads to drop off like some others have experienced.


----------



## rafaelroxalot

Has anyone made a comparison between syllabe s101 and tranya t3? Which on has more and better bass? Thanks


----------



## Luchyres

rafaelroxalot said:


> Has anyone made a comparison between syllabe s101 and tranya t3? Which on has more and better bass? Thanks



I had both - and I wasn't comparing them against one another directly but I still have the s101.

To be brief:
The recessed mid/high for the t3 resulted in an odd issue where, while I enjoyed the powerful but not super resolved bass, if I turned it up too much the highs were harsh. This sounds worse than it is - these were my nitpick sound wise.

The s101 has plenty of bass, and is otherwise solid for sound, including mids. I don't find the case as portable as the anbes, and I'd say the t3 is much better looking in-ear. 

I do regret not playing around with an eq app while using the t3 just to see what it could have done.

The mpow t5 has solid if slightly cut off bass (just not _quite_ as full sounding to my ear), but agains, this is me nit-picking and looking for a reason to send back. (I'm probably one of the few tws minimalists here - I aim to find my own glorious do-it-all pair and own only those.


----------



## rafaelroxalot

Luchyres said:


> I had both - and I wasn't comparing them against one another directly but I still have the s101.
> 
> To be brief:
> The recessed mid/high for the t3 resulted in an odd issue where, while I enjoyed the powerful but not super resolved bass, if I turned it up too much the highs were harsh. This sounds worse than it is - these were my nitpick sound wise.
> ...



But you think syllabe has a more powerful bass than tranya t3?


----------



## rafaelroxalot

I know that this topic is about TWS, but any of you have tried aptx hd cable bluetooth from KZ? To use kz earphones in smartphones without cable conection?


----------



## openyoureyes

d3myz said:


> By multi point connections do you mean the chipsets ability to connect to multiple devices at once or are you talking about True Wireless Stereo Plus etc?


 
Multipoint ist the ability to connect at least 2 devices at the same time. So you can watch a movie on your IPad and still getting calls from your smartphone.

Here is some more detailed explanation: https://www.jabra.com/blog/multipoint-explained-one-headset-for-all-devices/

It seems that the more expensive chips of the older CSR-series from Qualcomm can do that out of the box (scroll down a bit - second point under features):

https://www.qualcomm.com/system/fil...-audio-flash-product-brief_87-ce852-1-b_0.pdf

The newer QCC-series has no mentioning of multipoint in the descriptions.

But there are some devices with the newer QCC-chips with multipoint - at least according to their manuals (Aukey EP-B33, Oneplus Bullets Wireless 2). Unfortunately i found no TWS with QCC-chips and multipoint so far.

I already tried the Jabras Elite 65t active. Multipoint really worked well with them, but they had pretty high latency and annoying hiss on the left earbud.

Actually i'm considering something like the new Shanling UP2 instead of waiting and waiting for some new TWS with multipoint.


----------



## Soreniglio

I finally received my QCY T3!


----------



## Caipirina (Aug 22, 2019)

Soreniglio said:


> I finally received my QCY T3!



And? I am still on the fence about them, if I really 'need' them 

Edit: just checked on them again and I see that in their case, waiting for the Sale really makes a difference ... maybe that's a sign


----------



## willyk

Besides the JVC Spiral Dots, I thought I might try SpinFits as well on my new MPow T5's.

Since the T5's have a 4mm nozzel, do I get the SpinFit CP100 or CP360?

Thanks in advance!


----------



## hifi80sman

openyoureyes said:


> Multipoint ist the ability to connect at least 2 devices at the same time. So you can watch a movie on your IPad and still getting calls from your smartphone.
> 
> Here is some more detailed explanation: https://www.jabra.com/blog/multipoint-explained-one-headset-for-all-devices/
> 
> ...


I have the Aukey EP-B33 and it does have multipoint.  Not a TWS, but it's a solid neckband unit with good sound and call quality.


----------



## hifi80sman

Anyone give these a shot yet?

https://www.amazon.com/EOZ-Air-Wireless-Earphones-Black/dp/B07HZTJBH5/


----------



## howdy

Bought the XM3 today at best buy, they are not back logged now, I should have them on the 27th.
The sales guy says that they sell them online so quickly that they are never available at the store.


----------



## sanity8me (Aug 22, 2019)

hifi80sman said:


> Anyone give these a shot yet?
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/EOZ-Air-Wireless-Earphones-Black/dp/B07HZTJBH5/







Hmm...

Looks like you'll have to try these out for the greater good!


----------



## Mouseman (Aug 22, 2019)

hifi80sman said:


> Anyone give these a shot yet?
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/EOZ-Air-Wireless-Earphones-Black/dp/B07HZTJBH5/


They are awful. I backed them when they were in development. Poor fit, awful sound, and a poor connection at best. I would not recommend them. Mine are in a drawer somewhere, barely used. Also - $109? No way would I pay that much (they're not even worth $50).

They *do not *have an ambient sound mode. My KZXs do (also backed), but they have poor battery life and a case that guarantees that they will randomly connect to my phone when I don't want them to. And honestly, their ambient sound mode doesn't work that well.


----------



## gibletzor

Anyone try out the Edifier TWS5 yet?  I saw some mention that they were out earlier in the thread, and there's 1 video review on YouTube that is favorable.


----------



## chinmie

hifi80sman said:


> I have the Aukey EP-B33 and it does have multipoint.  Not a TWS, but it's a solid neckband unit with good sound and call quality.



all of my neckband bluetooth cables and iems have multipoint, although i don't have a BT 5.0 version yet.


----------



## chinmie

does anyone here had the chance to compare the Lypertek Tevi and the MPow T5 yet? i saw Penon is selling it on AE. does the Tevi really worth the price difference?


----------



## sanity8me

Am I wasting my time in hoping that the ambient passthrough modes offered by a few TWS IEMs will work as expected when I go for a ride on my road bike?

If wind noise is enhanced and overwhelming then what's the point...

Any of you actually try this?


----------



## FYLegend

sanity8me said:


> Am I wasting my time in hoping that the ambient passthrough modes offered by a few TWS IEMs will work as expected when I go for a ride on my road bike?
> 
> If wind noise is enhanced and overwhelming then what's the point...
> 
> Any of you actually try this?


I just did a brief test with a fan blowing wind. The Jabra Elite 65t's ambient mode seems to work well with wind noise - just a little bit of rustling. On the other hand the Jabees Firefly Pro is quite poor with wind with more rustling noise. As a result I wouldn't recommend them for this purpose, and on my unit I also noticed the right earbud's ambient sound cuts off under direct sunlight (strange I know).


----------



## Hisma (Aug 23, 2019)

gibletzor said:


> Anyone try out the Edifier TWS5 yet?  I saw some mention that they were out earlier in the thread, and there's 1 video review on YouTube that is favorable.


I owned a pair but I seemed to have misplaced them :\
I was happy with them though.  Good sound stage, good dynamic range, clear sound, quite loud, and very good battery life.  Also gets a good seal in my ear and never had a problem with them falling out while active (once I used the right tips).  Con is the tuning.  Seems to have that "v shape" tuning that over emphasizes the highs & lows.  I am an android phone user & fixed this with eq in viper4android but still not ideal.
For reference I do not own any other TWS earphones, but I own some wired mid range IEMs & a bunch of over ear headphones.  To me they sounded at least 85% as good as my wired IEMs though couldn't compete w/ my non-budget over ears (to be expected).
I'm deciding if I should buy them again or try another pair... still undecided.  I live in China so I can get them to my door within 2-3 business days.


----------



## openyoureyes

hifi80sman said:


> I have the Aukey EP-B33 and it does have multipoint.  Not a TWS, but it's a solid neckband unit with good sound and call quality.



Thank you for the information. But it's pretty expensive and the playtime is according to the description only around 8 h. This is a bit disappointing for the new QCC-Series chip. There are many neckbands with older chips and much better playtime. I think Aukey did a bad job here with the small battery in this overall interesting unit. Double the battery and its much more interesting.

I want a TWS with multipoint, low latency, long playtime and ok sound quality (SQ is maybe the least important). This seems impossible at the moment and looking at the new QCC-series from Qualcomm i don't have much hope for the future. It seems that they silently drop the multipoint function for the QCC-series for TWS.

A small bluetooth amplifier with multipont capacities (Fiio BTR3, Shanling UP2) is maybe the better way.


----------



## Soreniglio

@Caipirina I'm returning them.

Yesterday everything was great, fit and seal were astounding, sound was slightly better than QCY T1C, but today everything went downhill.

Well, left earbud stopped working, I tried repairing, doing magic tricks etc but nothing to do here.

Hopefully it's a defective pair, I'm gonna buy another one, since I was so positively impressed.

There's one con: touch controls are a bit hit and miss, they're hard to get used to, and returning to the previous track is VERY hard to do.


----------



## Caipirina

Soreniglio said:


> @Caipirina I'm returning them.
> 
> Yesterday everything was great, fit and seal were astounding, sound was slightly better than QCY T1C, but today everything went downhill.
> 
> ...




Thanks for that ... that's nasty having one crap out ... good you can return ... 

Still thinking I might give them a try (doing some voodoo in preparation for hopefully getting a good pair


----------



## Caipirina (Aug 23, 2019)

Looks like there is a new Whizzer in town   And it comes with AptX ...  interesting design, different ... but even at 72$ i am kinda 'meh'

One reviewer from NL says " I have bought 100 different Bluetooth earbuds on aliexpress and this is my favorite one" ... @Bartig, i thought you are on vacation? 




Reviews are general very positive (and detailed)

And here another new entry that caught my eye. Everyone who dabbled in earbuds will get big ears when they hear ‘vido’ ... so, no idea if there’s any relation, but design wise this looks interesting



For that price though I would expect some more interesting specs.

And then there are also some new Havits (or havits not?   ) ... looking like redmi airdots-ish something ... so far i have not been impressed by Havit's sound signatures ... but I like that small form factor ... i wish there were more like the Haylou, Capsule, BW FYE5 ...


----------



## Soreniglio

When testing my QCY T3 I played these two songs first, and they came off very nicely, I think they are quite a great benchmark:


----------



## willyk

willyk said:


> Besides the JVC Spiral Dots, I thought I might try SpinFits as well on my new MPow T5's.
> 
> Since the T5's have a 4mm nozzel, do I get the SpinFit CP100 or CP360?
> 
> Thanks in advance!



Heard from the SpinFit folks.  They say the CP360's are for the MPow T5's, as their lower profile will fit in the case.


----------



## TK33

willyk said:


> Heard from the SpinFit folks.  They say the CP360's are for the MPow T5's, as their lower profile will fit in the case.



I tried the CP360 earlier this week for both my JBL and Senns and all the bass disappeared so I ordered the CP100z. CP360 just did not work well for my ears and I think it was because it did not go deep enough. Pushing and holding the earpiece in sounded better.  

I had reached out to Spinfit. Here is the response describing the difference (thought I would share in case others are looking as well):

Hi, thanks for reaching out to us!
1. CP360 is made from medical grade silicon. The material is definitely softer and thinner than regular silicon, maybe that's what makes the bass performance weaker. CP360 more focus on the comfort level since it's made for TWS specifically and the tube is shortened, to be able to fit in the charging case perfectly and also be swiveled deeper in your ear canals to give you a secure fit.

2. Yes, CP100Z is also compatible with Sennheiser Momentum True Wireless. The comfort level might not be like CP360 provides, but it sure will have better performance on bass.

Hope you find it helpful! Please feel free to contact us if you have further more questions!

Regards,
SpinFit Team.


----------



## willyk

TK33 said:


> I tried the CP360 earlier this week for both my JBL and Senns and all the bass disappeared so I ordered the CP100z. CP360 just did not work well for my ears and I think it was because it did not go deep enough. Pushing and holding the earpiece in sounded better.
> 
> I had reached out to Spinfit. Here is the response describing the difference (thought I would share in case others are looking as well):
> 
> ...



This is good info, and in-line with most of what I've read.  My T5's are nicely balanced with the stock tips.  I don't think I'd like to have less bass.
It's interesting that some reviewers, I think on Amazon, said that the bass was more enhanced with the CP360's.
It might be a personal thing.  I'll see and report back.

Thanks again for this info!


----------



## YankeeFan

korefuji said:


> true wireless earbuds anonymous  i think  a few of you guys could go together



Still a noob to this forum for the most part. And definitely qualify for being included in the TWEA Group.  
I do have a few True Wireless Earbuds and for what it’s worth, here are my impressions. 

Master & Dynamic MW 07 - this is long term since they first came out...great sound, nice bass..vocals ok, battery life a bit of an issue
Jabra Elite 65t - long term since first released..great overall sound, nice bass and detail, great for phone calls, pretty good battery life
HifiMan TWS 600 - not enough bass for me at all...very tinny sounding, no EQ can fix the issues I had with these.. returned after a few days
Sennheiser Momentum TW - just got these...great sounding, nice soundstage, great bass, mids and highs..
Sony WF SP700N - reasonably priced...ok sounding but not enough bass to my liking...they do have noise canceling if that’s important to you....battery life just about 3 hrs
So far for me it’s about a tie between the Sennheisers and Master & Dynamics with a bit of an edge at this point to the Sennheisers....


----------



## gibletzor (Aug 23, 2019)

Got these bad boys, Honshoop W1, yesterday.  I have to say, the sound was better than I expected.  Lots of high quality bass, good mids and highs.  Not Mpow T5 good, but still good.  Unfortunately after less than an hour of listening the touch button on the right earbud stopped working completely.  Not sure if I'll get a replacement or move on to something else.  I liked how lightweight they were, and they were comfortable, but sometimes lack of substance is a sign of poor quality...  A pity because I enjoyed their sound!


----------



## actorlife (Aug 23, 2019)

gibletzor said:


> Got these bad boys, Honshoop W1, yesterday.  I have to say, the sound was better than I expected.  Lots of high quality bass, good mids and highs.  Not Mpow T5 good, but still good.  Unfortunately after less than an hour of listening the touch button on the right earbud stopped working completely.  Not sure if I'll get a replacement or move on to something else.  I liked how lightweight they were, and they were comfortable, but sometimes lack of substance is a sign of poor quality...  A pity because I enjoyed their sound!


Replace them they are one of my favs. Never had an issue.


----------



## actorlife

bubsdaddy said:


> Don't mislead him. We are never done.


Shhhhh you're messing things up. You gotta lure him in slowly. ✌️


----------



## actorlife

vstolpner said:


> Thanks. Got the Wavefun Xpods 3.
> 
> Can't say there is much not to like about the freebie program since its... well... free
> 
> ...


Dang they that bad? Nothing on SQ in 2 days.


----------



## actorlife (Aug 23, 2019)

79$ lightning sale: Graphene drivers and 8hr battery 
Soundcore Liberty True-Wireless Headphones, 100-Hour Playtime, Bluetooth 5 Wireless Earbuds with Graphene Driver Technology, Sweatproof True Wireless Earbuds with Smart AI, Stereo Handsfree Calls https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07Q7GG2CP/ref=cm_sw_r_sms_apa_i_G7byDbA8WSHVS


----------



## webvan

Detailed Sabbat E12 review on rtings : https://www.rtings.com/headphones/reviews/sabbat/e12-true-wireless
They're not too impressed...


----------



## JimmyR

gibletzor said:


> Anyone try out the Edifier TWS5 yet?  I saw some mention that they were out earlier in the thread, and there's 1 video review on YouTube that is favorable.



Yep, I was really close to get me a pair when they were put out since they sound like a pretty solid product (QCC chip, renowned Chi-Fi brand, touch controls, compact case...) but then I come across a showstopper: no volume control. I could skip track control but volume is a must for my use profile... and I think in general por any TWS above 60 dollars. 
That’s the downer. Other than that, they are appealing.


----------



## vstolpner

actorlife said:


> Dang they that bad? Nothing on SQ in 2 days.



Lol that's more to do with being busy than anything else.

I was actually going to praise then on here and just today I got connectivity issues :/

Anyone know what constant green flashing  on one earbud means?

Or anyone know how to factory reset the Wavefun Xpods 3?


----------



## actorlife

vstolpner said:


> Lol that's more to do with being busy than anything else.
> 
> I was actually going to praise then on here and just today I got connectivity issues :/
> 
> ...


Well that sucks.


----------



## TK33 (Aug 23, 2019)

willyk said:


> This is good info, and in-line with most of what I've read.  My T5's are nicely balanced with the stock tips.  I don't think I'd like to have less bass.
> It's interesting that some reviewers, I think on Amazon, said that the bass was more enhanced with the CP360's.
> It might be a personal thing.  I'll see and report back.
> 
> Thanks again for this info!



I think it is likely a problem specific to me (with the shape of my ears)  Sounds fine if I jam them in but have trouble keeping them there  Hope they work better for you.


----------



## gibletzor

actorlife said:


> Replace them they are one of my favs. Never had an issue.



Aside from the broken touch button, these do sound fantastic.  Not a huge fan of the included eartips, but they sound great with something that gets a better seal!


----------



## sanity8me

FYLegend said:


> I just did a brief test with a fan blowing wind. The Jabra Elite 65t's ambient mode seems to work well with wind noise - just a little bit of rustling. On the other hand the Jabees Firefly Pro is quite poor with wind with more rustling noise. As a result I wouldn't recommend them for this purpose, and on my unit I also noticed the right earbud's ambient sound cuts off under direct sunlight (strange I know).



Thanks for checking!

I guess it boils down to how high quality the mic implemention is...


----------



## howdy

I got a delivery notification for the Sony Wf1000XM3 today and it says this Monday, cant wait to give these a try. Hope they live up to all the reviews. My only worry is that it wont be loud enough like the first iteration. they where loud when maxed out but these was times when i wish it had a few extra.


----------



## riodgarp

d3myz said:


> The Dots are slightly larger, i'd go with M/L size if you use the L MPOW tips.
> 
> Pictured is the spiral dot M/S, Mpow M, Spiral Dot M, Mpow L and Spiral dot L



too bad my mifo has vacuum feel, I use m/s if there larger tips make it less?


----------



## Caipirina

Anyone know these? Awei T6C

They caught my eye because of the small form factor, wireless charging and that crazy gap between regular price and sales price ... oh, and one reviewer claims they have volume control ..

Tempting ...


----------



## FYLegend

webvan said:


> Detailed Sabbat E12 review on rtings : https://www.rtings.com/headphones/reviews/sabbat/e12-true-wireless
> They're not too impressed...


Ugh, well mine sounds nothing like that either, except maybe the right bud. People are telling me they either sound like bass monsters or lack bass or something in between. Mine sounds bright on the left side and bassy on the right side. Deciding if it's worth getting the refund via a dispute process. If you want a bass monster get the Jabees Firefly Pro...

Rtings tries to be good with measurements but some people like Oluv have questioned its methodology. A lot of people complained to them about the hiss in Jabra 65t but they just commented it wasn't very noticeable, although their measurements do seem to confirm the channel imbalance many users have reported.

I may not have balanced hearing, but stop giving me "holographic 3D sound" on my Beatles mono recordings! It's the 3rd TWS in a row that I got with channel imbalance.

Regarding the SBC problem with my Jabees Firefly Pro on Windows, it appears to be linked to absolute volume/media volume sync. Using registry editor to disable volume (and factory reset + re-pairing) seems to have fixed the problem! Although you will lose media volume sync (their volume controls aren't that good to begin with)...
https://superuser.com/questions/137...-volume-in-windows-10-bluetooth-stack/1393619


----------



## actorlife

Caipirina said:


> Anyone know these? Awei T6C
> 
> They caught my eye because of the small form factor, wireless charging and that crazy gap between regular price and sales price ... oh, and one reviewer claims they have volume control ..
> 
> Tempting ...


I have a couple of awei iems and love them. For 17 bucks I'd take a chance. Damn budget.


----------



## actorlife (Aug 24, 2019)

gibletzor said:


> Aside from the broken touch button, these do sound fantastic.  Not a huge fan of the included eartips, but they sound great with something that gets a better seal!


I'll also recommend these since you're in the US. Always good to have a backup:
Wireless Earbuds, Alterola IE600 Smallest Bluetooth 5.0 True Wireless Earbuds Stable Connection HD Stereo Sound Waterproof with 24H Playtime Charging Case, Build-in Mic https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07MYZK9NT/ref=cm_sw_r_sms_apa_i_XWtyDbEX5DDG1
Same brand but I've never heard them. Maybe you can let us know if you like them? Same price too. 
Wireless Bluetooth Earbuds, Alterola IE800 Bluetooth 5.0 True Wireless Headphones 6h Playtime per Charge + Extra 30h Charge Case, Noise Cancelling Stereo Hi-Fi Sound, Lightweight Snug Fit, Waterproof https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07PR9MK4K/ref=cm_sw_r_sms_apa_i_p0tyDbVQV04GB


----------



## Soreniglio

I literally gave my QCY to the post office at 11 AM, and at 12 AM I received my money back on my Amazon account, they're rad, can't deny that.

I don't know if I wanna try another pair of QCY T3 out, or if I wanna bite the SoundPeats TruePods, or some hidden gem I might find on Amazon IT, I'll let you know!


----------



## Caipirina

actorlife said:


> I have a couple of awei iems and love them. For 17 bucks I'd take a chance. Damn budget.



Thanks for the feedback, for now they are on the list. Let’s see what kind of damage I will do next week. Already decided (kinda) to drop the Wavefun. 

My problem is less budget and more that my mail now goes to wife’s office address  
Need to limit the number of parcels going through her hands.


----------



## actorlife

Caipirina said:


> Thanks for the feedback, for now they are on the list. Let’s see what kind of damage I will do next week. Already decided (kinda) to drop the Wavefun.
> 
> My problem is less budget and more that my mail now goes to wife’s office address
> Need to limit the number of parcels going through her hands.


You mean she has not seen your collection? ✔️✅


----------



## Caipirina

actorlife said:


> You mean she has not seen your collection? ✔️✅



She has not  

She might see different TWS in my ears, but they all kinda look they same to her


----------



## Caipirina (Aug 24, 2019)

Just a fun little thing I saw today in our local ‘mall’ ... and there I was thinking this kind of blatant fakery was a thing of the past. No, they still exist. And people to be fooled by this probably as well.




Heck, they are not even trying to make it look like the real SSF


----------



## gibletzor

actorlife said:


> I'll also recommend these since you're in the US. Always good to have a backup:
> Wireless Earbuds, Alterola IE600 Smallest Bluetooth 5.0 True Wireless Earbuds Stable Connection HD Stereo Sound Waterproof with 24H Playtime Charging Case, Build-in Mic https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07MYZK9NT/ref=cm_sw_r_sms_apa_i_XWtyDbEX5DDG1
> Same brand but I've never heard them. Maybe you can let us know if you like them? Same price too.
> Wireless Bluetooth Earbuds, Alterola IE800 Bluetooth 5.0 True Wireless Headphones 6h Playtime per Charge + Extra 30h Charge Case, Noise Cancelling Stereo Hi-Fi Sound, Lightweight Snug Fit, Waterproof https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07PR9MK4K/ref=cm_sw_r_sms_apa_i_p0tyDbVQV04GB



The IE600 are going to be on a lightning deal tomorrow morning around 6AM Central US time.  I've been eyeing them.  We'll see what kind of deal they offer.  The IE800s were on a lightning deal last night, but there were quite a few complaints in the reviews about the right earbud flat out dieing.


----------



## actorlife (Aug 24, 2019)

gibletzor said:


> The IE600 are going to be on a lightning deal tomorrow morning around 6AM Central US time.  I've been eyeing them.  We'll see what kind of deal they offer.  The IE800s were on a lightning deal last night, but there were quite a few complaints in the reviews about the right earbud flat out dieing.


I got mine for $30. Don't remember if it was a lightning sale though. I'm sure you'll like them and so will cookie monster. ⚡✌️


----------



## actorlife

Caipirina said:


> Thanks for the feedback, for now they are on the list. Let’s see what kind of damage I will do next week. Already decided (kinda) to drop the Wavefun.
> 
> My problem is less budget and more that my mail now goes to wife’s office address
> Need to limit the number of parcels going through her hands.


----------



## Caipirina

actorlife said:


>




Thank you ...  

hooray for volume control!


----------



## webvan (Aug 24, 2019)

Weird volume control wouldn't be advertized  by the seller ?! Is it really the same model ?


----------



## actorlife (Aug 24, 2019)

Caipirina said:


> Thank you ...
> 
> hooray for volume control!


Yep you got two days till sale. Wish I could get them. Awei makes quality stuff like KZ. Listening to Alterola right now bliss. To make myself not feel bad.


----------



## Soreniglio

Do you guys think that these are QCY T3s with different eartips? They have a big discount right now, they go for 32€ instead of 45€, name of the product is "Mycarbon T3", they claim to have 4 mics on each earbud.

https://www.amazon.it/MYCARBON-Auricolari-Bluetooth-Cancellazione-Riproduzione/dp/B07TJDN6TB


----------



## jasonb

So the Galaxy Buds just got a firmware update the other day. They seem to sound better than ever.


----------



## gibletzor

jasonb said:


> So the Galaxy Buds just got a firmware update the other day. They seem to sound better than ever.



Oh, awesome!  I haven't used mine in a couple days so I hadn't noticed.  I'll check when I get home from work in the morning!  Thanks!


----------



## jasonb

gibletzor said:


> Oh, awesome!  I haven't used mine in a couple days so I hadn't noticed.  I'll check when I get home from work in the morning!  Thanks!



The release notes only say connection stability improvements, but I swear they sound more clear and detailed than ever. Other people on Reddit are saying the same thing.


----------



## Caipirina (Aug 24, 2019)

Soreniglio said:


> Do you guys think that these are QCY T3s with different eartips? They have a big discount right now, they go for 32€ instead of 45€, name of the product is "Mycarbon T3", they claim to have 4 mics on each earbud.
> 
> https://www.amazon.it/MYCARBON-Auricolari-Bluetooth-Cancellazione-Riproduzione/dp/B07TJDN6TB




Similar question came up just last week. While it looks like it could be the same, until anyone does a listening test, we won't know about what's on the inside




Why not wait until tomorrow and get the originals for 28.75$ ?


----------



## Caipirina

actorlife said:


> Yep you got two days till sale. Wish I could get them. Awei makes quality stuff like KZ. Listening to Alterola right now bliss. To make myself not feel bad.



And you can always make fun of me for the Alterola being out of my reach ... seems only amazon US has them, no way I pay that extra crazy shipping (they would probably not even ship to here) 

On a fun note, I am listening to my clone-y i60 TWS ... and I am always surprised how they are 'not bad actually'  to me they sound better than the originals. And they are just easier to put in / out when family is around ..


----------



## FYLegend

WF1000XM3 killers from Samload? (They sell Sabbat rebrands)

C$ 73.42  32%OFF | Samload Bluetooth 5.0 Active Noise Cancelling Headphone ANC TWS Wireless Earbud Deep Bass Headphone Built-in mic with Charge box
https://s.click.aliexpress.com/e/rD8U17s8


----------



## chinmie

FYLegend said:


> WF1000XM3 killers from Samload? (They sell Sabbat rebrands)
> 
> C$ 73.42  32%OFF | Samload Bluetooth 5.0 Active Noise Cancelling Headphone ANC TWS Wireless Earbud Deep Bass Headphone Built-in mic with Charge box
> https://s.click.aliexpress.com/e/rD8U17s8



can't open your link, but I'm guessing it's this product? 
 

there's a cheaper one available in AE, you can find it here
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33049767590.html


----------



## hifi80sman

Caipirina said:


> Just a fun little thing I saw today in our local ‘mall’ ... and there I was thinking this kind of blatant fakery was a thing of the past. No, they still exist. And people to be fooled by this probably as well.
> 
> 
> 
> Heck, they are not even trying to make it look like the real SSF


LOL!  WOW!  Hope nobody actually falls for that...


----------



## hifi80sman (Aug 25, 2019)

Grabbed the House of Marley Liberate Air today.  Never actually purchased anything from H of M before, mostly because I feel they're a bit gimmicky with their marketing.  Against my better judgment, I decided to give them a shot for $149.  Looking at the website, I couldn't figure out if they supported anything other than SBC, so I was basically rolling the dice.  It should be noted, their new over ear flagship only supports SBC.

Well, pleasantly, VERY pleasantly, surprised.  Not only do they support AAC, but they also support aptX!  How do you NOT describe this in your marketing specs?!

Sound is crisp, but not too sharp, mids sit nicely in the driver's seat (listening to some Bryan Ferry stuff), and bass is fairly deep, round, and solid.  No noticeable driver flex.  I like these quite a bit and they look quite nice with the bamboo.  Definitely feel good recommending these.


----------



## hifi80sman

Oh, and pass on these.  Bass is kind of fun, but other than that, sound is muffled and driver flex is very apparent.

https://www.bestbuy.com/site/jam-li...-ear-headphones-black/6359338.p?skuId=6359338


----------



## DigDub

Agree that the latest update makes the Galaxy buds sound better. Previous firmware made the buds sound too bright. It's more balanced now.


----------



## Soreniglio

Caipirina said:


> Why not wait until tomorrow and get the originals for 28.75$ ?



Because the eartips were something I wasn't too used to, and I think I might prefer a more typical in-ear approach :/

I'm gonna try these Mycarbon ones, if I don't dig them much, I'll just return them


----------



## Soreniglio

At the end of the day, I bought Mpow T5 hehehe


Weirdly enough, I thought I had not enough money on my card, but looks like I did.


----------



## posedown

I just got my Mpow t5. Yes they are impressive  but exhausting. Maybe i will find a good EQ setting.
They stick out and i look like an alien...


----------



## webvan

chinmie said:


> can't open your link, but I'm guessing it's this product?
> 
> 
> there's a cheaper one available in AE, you can find it here
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33049767590.html



ChiFi ANC for 30€, hum...Comments are ok but not great.


----------



## chinmie

webvan said:


> ChiFi ANC for 30€, hum...Comments are ok but not great.



the review on the bonola one say the sound is quite good and the ANC works to reduce noise. I'm interested to buy, but my concerns are the physical size (I'm worried it's sticks out too much like the Bose soundsport free), the touch button, and the lack of volume control. i might bite on the next big AE discount


----------



## gibletzor

actorlife said:


> I got mine for $30. Don't remember if it was a lightning sale though. I'm sure you'll like them and so will cookie monster. ⚡✌️



They're $30 again.  I'll have them Tuesday.


----------



## Soreniglio

posedown said:


> I just got my Mpow t5. Yes they are impressive  but exhausting. Maybe i will find a good EQ setting.
> They stick out and i look like an alien...



Are they that big? I don't wanna look like Frankenstein...


----------



## Soreniglio

Nvm, Amazon denied my payment, seems like I didn't have enough money after all, I think I'll just go for the good 'ol QCY T3 again.


----------



## Caipirina

So, what's on everyone's wishlist (or already in shopping cart) for tomorrow? 

I try to stick to 2 rules / boundaries: only 3 items and a total under 100$  

Funny thing when following those items over the last days to see how some sellers beef up the 'original' price to make the sales price look more attractive 

UiiSii for example ... 


 

Others I am contemplating: The QCY T3 and the AWEI T6C

The YTOM / Wavefun were on my radar, but somehow dropped off ...


----------



## actorlife (Aug 25, 2019)

gibletzor said:


> They're $30 again.  I'll have them Tuesday.


Awesome. Did you buy both? I really hope you like them. Alterola crispy highs and mids, but not overly so. Bass is good, but not boomy.


----------



## gibletzor

actorlife said:


> Awesome. Did you buy both? I really hope you like them. Crispy highs and mids, but not overly so. Bass is good, but not boomy.


Just the IE600.  The IE800 haven't had another sale yet.


----------



## actorlife

gibletzor said:


> Just the IE600.  The IE800 haven't had another sale yet.


Meant if you re-bought the W1 as well.


----------



## gibletzor

actorlife said:


> Meant if you re-bought the W1 as well.


Ah!  Yes, I'm getting a replacement from Amazon for those.  I'll give em another chance!


----------



## actorlife

gibletzor said:


> Ah!  Yes, I'm getting a replacement from Amazon for those.  I'll give em another chance!


Cool I hope they send you a good pair this time. Which other TWS do you own?


----------



## gibletzor

actorlife said:


> Cool I hope they send you a good pair this time. Which other TWS do you own?


I have Mpow T5 and Galaxy Buds.  I tried the Funcl W1 but it had awful connection issues if I wasn't sitting still at my desk.  I tried the Aukey T10 also, but returned them also because I felt the Galaxy Buds were better all around and had more features, and I didn't like only being able to use the right earbud if I wanted to use just one.


----------



## actorlife

gibletzor said:


> I have Mpow T5 and Galaxy Buds.  I tried the Funcl W1 but it had awful connection issues if I wasn't sitting still at my desk.  I tried the Aukey T10 also, but returned them also because I felt the Galaxy Buds were better all around and had more features, and I didn't like only being able to use the right earbud if I wanted to use just one.


Ah OK so you'll really like the Alterola then. Same type of SQ.


----------



## tlau1125

posedown said:


> I just got my Mpow t5. Yes they are impressive  but exhausting. Maybe i will find a good EQ setting.
> They stick out and i look like an alien...


“Exhausting”, in what way?


----------



## silverfishla

Caipirina said:


> So, what's on everyone's wishlist (or already in shopping cart) for tomorrow?
> 
> I try to stick to 2 rules / boundaries: only 3 items and a total under 100$
> 
> ...


The Whizzer B6 looks promising.  IPX7, bluetooth 5.0, Aptx.  Good reviews.  $68 during the sale.  interesting charging case (45 hrs. of use supposedly).  Reviews say 6 hrs per charge.  In any case, they look nice and have aptx.


----------



## DDDYKI

If the Galaxy Buds update helps them stay connected in congested environments, I may need to reconsider them. The Creative Outlier Air are terrible in Manhattan, even in areas that didn't give me problems with other Bluetooth headphones.


----------



## jant71 (Aug 25, 2019)

Not that these are good but it is a decent concept...









Combine the sports watch and the TW together.

Wearbuds also doing the same thing but newer and most likely better. https://the-gadgeteer.com/2019/06/20/airpower-wearbuds-fitness-band-and-earbuds-review/


----------



## HiFlight

DDDYKI said:


> If the Galaxy Buds update helps them stay connected in congested environments, I may need to reconsider them. The Creative Outlier Air are terrible in Manhattan, even in areas that didn't give me problems with other Bluetooth headphones.


I returned my Outlier Air for the exact same reason.  The connectivity was abysmal whenever I was outside.


----------



## BigZ12

HiFlight said:


> I returned my Outlier Air for the exact same reason.  The connectivity was abysmal whenever I was outside.


----------



## Sam L

tlau1125 said:


> “Exhausting”, in what way?


Probably referring to fatiguing from the highs?

The t5 have a bit of energy in the highs but are not harsh or sibilent, to my ears. However. I'm at that age where I'm starting to lose my high freq hearing. If he is in his 20s, I could see how the t5's can be described as fatiguing.


----------



## JimmyR (Aug 25, 2019)

silverfishla said:


> The Whizzer B6 looks promising. IPX7, bluetooth 5.0, Aptx.  Good reviews.  $68 during the sale.  interesting charging case (45 hrs. of use supposedly).  Reviews say 6 hrs per charge.  In any case, they look nice and have aptx.



Yes, they look great...but, aren't them identical to these so-called Rondaful B6 https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000115087171.html?spm=a2g0s.8937460.0.0.5e532e0e6yY6f4 listed for almost half the price??  (I have to say that I'm really tempted to get those for that price, but then i feel a bit wary that is actually the same product or, to be honest, some spare pre-production units so faulty prone)
Also, when caipirina posted them some days ago, I was like:"I've seen those somewhere else..." and then I realized where -> https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/mezone-best-sounding-snug-fit-tws-plus-earbuds#/. Look exactly the same. There are even some early-bird review videos in youtube such as this from Gamesky:



Seems like Whizzer has taken on some OEM game here. You know how convoluted the Chi-fi world can get to be..


----------



## howdy

How many of you find yourself using your Bluetooth IEMs over all your other gear not just for convenience but because this kind of your new "path". i really enjoy the sound of all of my BT IEMs and rarely listen to my other gear which only consists of really two rigs which are Alclair RSMs CIEMs and FiiO X5iii and iPod Touch and iSine20s.  Im always looking to see whats new in the BT world in IEMs but i think my newest investment may have to be a new phone as my LGV20 is finally starting to give out after 3 plus years.


----------



## DDDYKI

HiFlight said:


> I returned my Outlier Air for the exact same reason.  The connectivity was abysmal whenever I was outside.


I just took a walk in my suburban town, phone on a holster on my belt (not in a pocket), and it was better than walking around NYC. But if I turned my head even slightly, I'd get drops and skips. My pair is probably gonna end up in the marketplace when I find the time.


----------



## Caipirina

howdy said:


> How many of you find yourself using your Bluetooth IEMs over all your other gear not just for convenience but because this kind of your new "path". i really enjoy the sound of all of my BT IEMs and rarely listen to my other gear which only consists of really two rigs which are Alclair RSMs CIEMs and FiiO X5iii and iPod Touch and iSine20s.  Im always looking to see whats new in the BT world in IEMs but i think my newest investment may have to be a new phone as my LGV20 is finally starting to give out after 3 plus years.



Same here, I bought a bunch of new IEMs over the summer as well, but have not had the chance to really, actively listen to them. I rather keep my TWE on rotation and enjoy not having wires to deal with. On occasion I throw my Bose QC35 on, if there is too much noise around me.

Often I am still surprised that even the cheaper buds hit a sweet spot of decent quality and monster convenience.


----------



## clerkpalmer

Caipirina said:


> So, what's on everyone's wishlist (or already in shopping cart) for tomorrow?
> 
> I try to stick to 2 rules / boundaries: only 3 items and a total under 100$
> 
> ...



Bt20s mmcx  Can anyone recommend a nice set of iems to pair with them?  Just picked up dunu titan6 and their beryllium sweetness.


----------



## Mouseman

jant71 said:


> Not that these are good but it is a decent concept...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I've seen either something similar or the same product on KS. It seems like the best of no worlds at a ridiculous price. But then again, I've been parted with my money a few times on crowd funding sites and it took far too long to swear it off.


----------



## bronco1015

howdy said:


> How many of you find yourself using your Bluetooth IEMs over all your other gear not just for convenience but because this kind of your new "path". i really enjoy the sound of all of my BT IEMs and rarely listen to my other gear which only consists of really two rigs which are Alclair RSMs CIEMs and FiiO X5iii and iPod Touch and iSine20s.  Im always looking to see whats new in the BT world in IEMs but i think my newest investment may have to be a new phone as my LGV20 is finally starting to give out after 3 plus years.


IMO, since 5G is hardly a thing at the moment in the U.s., and the V50 only works on Sprint and VZW i believe, and since it's basicly the same phone as the V40 with the addition of a 5G radio, i'll just say the v40 has been a solid purchase since my v20 died. drives my PM3 better than the v20 FWIW


----------



## willyk

I got the SpinFit CP360's today to try on my new MPow T5's.  I need to continue to audition them before making a final decision, but so far, for me, it's the stock T5 tips all the way.
I've got the JVC Spiral Dots due here this week.  Looking for to auditioning them as well.


----------



## howdy

bronco1015 said:


> IMO, since 5G is hardly a thing at the moment in the U.s., and the V50 only works on Sprint and VZW i believe, and since it's basicly the same phone as the V40 with the addition of a 5G radio, i'll just say the v40 has been a solid purchase since my v20 died. drives my PM3 better than the v20 FWIW


I was thinking either the G7 or the Google pixel 3a xl. im tired of paying $800 or more for a phone im staying cheap and getting the most bang for the buck, while hoping for some good options. My new thing is BT, i jsut love having no wire and good sound, im 45 and my hearing is still good but nothing like 20 plus years ago.


----------



## bronco1015

howdy said:


> I was thinking either the G7 or the Google pixel 3a xl. im tired of paying $800 or more for a phone im staying cheap and getting the most bang for the buck, while hoping for some good options. My new thing is BT, i jsut love having no wire and good sound, im 45 and my hearing is still good but nothing like 20 plus years ago.


 Both great choices. Right now, b&H has the G7 in platinum for $389.99


----------



## Caipirina

jant71 said:


> Not that these are good but it is a decent concept...
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I don't know .. looks rather bulky on wrist ... 

 

There's also 'TWS in thermos top' somewhere on AliX


----------



## Ocelitgol

Hello Everyone, just wanna ask what are you thoughts on buying the original Sony WF1000X for $40. Are they worth it considering how good chifi is getting now? (Talking about the anbes).

I'm getting rid of my wired iem and yet to find a good bt20s review to pull the trigger.


----------



## chinmie

howdy said:


> How many of you find yourself using your Bluetooth IEMs over all your other gear not just for convenience but because this kind of your new "path". i really enjoy the sound of all of my BT IEMs and rarely listen to my other gear which only consists of really two rigs which are Alclair RSMs CIEMs and FiiO X5iii and iPod Touch and iSine20s.  Im always looking to see whats new in the BT world in IEMs but i think my newest investment may have to be a new phone as my LGV20 is finally starting to give out after 3 plus years.



if you see my gear list, i only have one DAP (an old Ipod Classic 7), and the two DAC/Amp that i have are both bluetooth... so basically unless I'm using the Ipod, even when I'm using my wired gears I'm also using them in bluetooth 

i always prefer convenience and practicality, so wireless system always appealing for me. nowadays i think Wireless and TWS have catch up and can compete with their wired friends, especially the under 50 usd TWSs, i now think they can compete even in SQ department to the wired ones in general.

i myself choose the BT20s solution as a happy medium. not because the TWS is inferior in sound (i still love the Nillkin Go and the old WF1000X sound), but more because i can use sound drivers that i already have and know the sound

the only concern rhat i have about TWS is longevity of the battery...still not easily replacable.


----------



## chinmie

Caipirina said:


> I don't know .. looks rather bulky on wrist ...
> 
> 
> 
> There's also 'TWS in thermos top' somewhere on AliX



that's my concern too. at that size, i rather carry them cases in my pocket or bag instead of the wrist. 



stormers said:


> Hello Everyone, just wanna ask what are you thoughts on buying the original Sony WF1000X for $40. Are they worth it considering how good chifi is getting now? (Talking about the anbes).
> 
> I'm getting rid of my wired iem and yet to find a good bt20s review to pull the trigger.



the WF1000X sounds good, up to the point that i personality would love to buy a wired version with the same sound. the only bad thing about it for me is the battery. if you're okay about using it below 3 hours at a time and enjoy a balanced sound, it's a good buy.


----------



## Ocelitgol

chinmie said:


> that's my concern too. at that size, i rather carry them cases in my pocket or bag instead of the wrist.
> 
> 
> 
> the WF1000X sounds good, up to the point that i personality would love to buy a wired version with the same sound. the only bad thing about it for me is the battery. if you're okay about using it below 3 hours at a time and enjoy a balanced sound, it's a good buy.



Thank you. How would you compare that to the chifi favorites here besides the battery side (which I'm ok with)?


----------



## Wuzzle

Spent quite some time reading through this thread, and decided to order the Tranya T3s. Bought 2 pairs as I'm giving a pair to my daughter. They do not disappoint! Comparatively a little in the higher price range where chi-fi is concerned, but they deserve to be. With the back to school code for 25% off and free shipping (still on their site I think), more than a worthy purchase.


----------



## actorlife (Aug 26, 2019)

Love her tone, feeling & style.((Edit)) whoops sleepy head wrong thread, but she is worth keeping in this thread.


----------



## rafaelroxalot

Anyone compared tranya t2 to t3?


----------



## hifi80sman

actorlife said:


> Love her tone, feeling & style.



So...is she coming out with a pair of TWS'?


----------



## hifi80sman

stormers said:


> Hello Everyone, just wanna ask what are you thoughts on buying the original Sony WF1000X for $40. Are they worth it considering how good chifi is getting now? (Talking about the anbes).
> 
> I'm getting rid of my wired iem and yet to find a good bt20s review to pull the trigger.


Are you talking new or used?  $40 for new is a no brainer, I would totally do it.  Even with battery life a little less than 3 hours, for $40, that's great.  Plus, there's app control and mild ANC (just don't expect too much from it).

Now, if you're talking used, refurb, renewed, then that's a bit different, since who knows where the battery life is at.  However, for $40, I'd personally buy it (if I hadn't already had a pair previously).

The mic on it was not very good if I recall correctly, so if you're looking at something you can use for calls, you're probably better off with the MPOW T5.


----------



## hifi80sman

Looks like there's a new kid on the block in the TRANYA B530.

Anyone try them out yet?


----------



## Caipirina

Caipirina said:


> I try to stick to 2 rules / boundaries: only 3 items and a total under 100$



So, sales week started ... and I managed to get in 4 TWS for 91.65$   after like 7$ of store coupons

I am still contemplating the YTOM T1 ... but still not fully convinced ... and those Chi-Fi ANC Frankenstein ears somehow still tickle me ... 

Any other great finds? Crazy discounts?


----------



## oobika

Gonna fire on the UmiDigi pods with the sale for 9.9$.

I have the Wavefun Xpods 3, but they are the first TWS I have, so I can't really compare. 
I'm happy with the sound, they are super comfortable and have a small box. Connection is solid when I connect the left pod first as I carry my phone in the left pocket. Otherwise I got a random dropout when squatting. But when I connect the left pod first I have no problems.

This thread really infects with a wish to try out more of them.


----------



## Caipirina (Aug 26, 2019)

oobika said:


> Gonna fire on the UmiDigi pods with the sale for 9.9$.
> 
> I have the Wavefun Xpods 3, but they are the first TWS I have, so I can't really compare.
> I'm happy with the sound, they are super comfortable and have a small box. Connection is solid when I connect the left pod first as I carry my phone in the left pocket. Otherwise I got a random dropout when squatting. But when I connect the left pod first I have no problems.
> ...



Welcome to Head-fi, thanks for choosing this thread to start your adventure 

I feel sorry for your wallet


----------



## actorlife

hifi80sman said:


> So...is she coming out with a pair of TWS'?


She is Rahaha.


----------



## WesennTony

howdy said:


> How many of you find yourself using your Bluetooth IEMs over all your other gear not just for convenience but because this kind of your new "path". i really enjoy the sound of all of my BT IEMs and rarely listen to my other gear which only consists of really two rigs which are Alclair RSMs CIEMs and FiiO X5iii and iPod Touch and iSine20s.  Im always looking to see whats new in the BT world in IEMs but i think my newest investment may have to be a new phone as my LGV20 is finally starting to give out after 3 plus years.


I found that my TWS replace most of my wired IEMs except Westone W60. W60 are most comfortable for my ears, even more so than any TWS I've tried, and I use Westone's ultra thin cable that feels almost non-existent.  They still sound better even paired with ES100, though during a long flight Nuarl NT01ax sound as good as this setup.


----------



## WesennTony

clerkpalmer said:


> Bt20s mmcx  Can anyone recommend a nice set of iems to pair with them?  Just picked up dunu titan6 and their beryllium sweetness.


Co-ask but for 2-pin version. I just bought a pair of Kanas pro but not sure if it's a best pair for gym use.


----------



## WesennTony

bronco1015 said:


> Both great choices. Right now, b&H has the G7 in platinum for $389.99


I really want to upgrade to a new LG phone (currently V30) but worry about that they value AAC over AptX for default BT codec. That causes frequent dropouts in my Earin M2.


----------



## Ocelitgol

Bt20/20s hiss so don't expect too much  

I'd use DD with them though



WesennTony said:


> I found that my TWS replace most of my wired IEMs except Westone W60. W60 are most comfortable for my ears, even more so than any TWS I've tried, and I use Westone's ultra thin cable that feels almost non-existent.  They still sound better even paired with ES100, though during a long flight Nuarl NT01ax sound as good as this setup.



Why not a short cable with your ES100?


----------



## WesennTony (Aug 26, 2019)

stormers said:


> Bt20/20s hiss so don't expect too much
> 
> I'd use DD with them though
> 
> ...


I could not find any short cable that is as comfortable as the ultra thin cable I'm using with. I also tried Linum balanced but went back. Besides with the long cable I can clip the ES100 to my belt and put the cable inside my shirt so that I almost feel nothing bothered.


----------



## bronco1015

WesennTony said:


> I really want to upgrade to a new LG phone (currently V30) but worry about that they value AAC over AptX for default BT codec. That causes frequent dropouts in my Earin M2.


i had weird, but totally different issues not at all related to your dropouts w V30, with my V30. i'd find a deal on V40 G7 or G8. Those all have improvements worth upgrading for imo. V30 was a good phone, just weird quirks like issues w the DAC kicking in consistently, basicly, issues i didn't have w v20 or v40.


----------



## sanity8me

jasonb said:


> So the Galaxy Buds just got a firmware update the other day. They seem to sound better than ever.



Interesting.  So they're not as bright anymore and therefore not as fatiguing? 

Also, would they stay on if I'd use them during a ride on my road bike?


----------



## jasonb

sanity8me said:


> Interesting.  So they're not as bright anymore and therefore not as fatiguing?
> 
> Also, would they stay on if I'd use them during a ride on my road bike?



Idk about that. I use them on the clear setting which is probably more bright than most people would like. I don't think they are fatiguing.


----------



## WesennTony

bronco1015 said:


> i had weird, but totally different issues not at all related to your dropouts w V30, with my V30. i'd find a deal on V40 G7 or G8. Those all have improvements worth upgrading for imo. V30 was a good phone, just weird quirks like issues w the DAC kicking in consistently, basicly, issues i didn't have w v20 or v40.


Could you elaborate more about DAC kicking in? Off-topic for this thread but just curious and never experienced it.


----------



## hifi80sman

For those on a budget, I just picked these up at Best Buy over the weekend.  For $59, they're great.  Full range touch controls (track, vol, etc.), AAC, 6 hours battery, and nice sound.  If you're looking at Chi-Fi in the $50 range, these are a great non-Chi-Fi budget option that really stands its own ground.  Exciting, clear sound (Signature EQ), although my guilty pleasure is the Bass Boost EQ.  

https://www.jlabaudio.com/products/jbuds-air-icon-true-wireless-earbuds


----------



## JimmyR (Aug 26, 2019)

hifi80sman said:


> Looks like there's a new kid on the block in the TRANYA B530.
> 
> Anyone try them out yet?



Seems they are just out of the oven and still burning... They come with touch controls (thumbs up for that).
On the down side and always taken with a pinch of salt, the case seems larger that that from previous models (should better shrink, damn) and I'm kind of disappointed that they didn't decide to pack a Qualcomm QCC302X to have true mono mode and better call quality. The description says these come with a Realtek chip

Anyway, the Tranya brand is kind of a safe bet, so I'm sure they'll be a great pair.

By the way, for you fellows on the US, the official Tranya group in Facebook is asking for US reviewers (beta testers) - https://www.facebook.com/tranya.inf...9649357/510037309759652/?type=3&theater&ifg=1.  There is an e-mail for those interested. The call is from only a few hours ago


----------



## smith

Anyone have any info/release date for the new TRN TWS T200


----------



## sneakysneaky

Hi all!  New member here, but I've been shadowing this thread for quite some time.
I am not at all experienced with quality headphones. Up 'till a few weeks ago, I was just using earpods that came with my phone.  Then I decided to get some true wireless earbuds.  Due to all the rave reviews, I got the jabra 65t active.  To be honest,  I was really underwhelmed by the sound, no matter what tips I used.  I found the wired earpods sounded better.  On top of that, I found them rather uncomfortable in my ears.
So I sent them back and I bought the Bose SSF.  Now these things sounded amazing!!! I had no idea that I was missing this much all these years on cheap earbuds!  I also find them comfortable, since they are semi open.

But here's my first world problem:  I hate the case, in that it pretty much misses the point of portability of IEMs.  I've been honestly debating on getting the soundlink 2 and a cheap set of TWS. I'd also like some more isolation.

I'm a guy who actually enjoys the idea of a 'one and only pair' though.  Is there any TWS with a portable case AND as good sounding?  I've been debating on trying the Melomania 1 out. Maybe the RHA True connects?

I'd also be open to suggestions of "wired" bluetooth IEMs.


----------



## MIBUK

My daily commute and gym TWS are the Earin M2. Very small. Good sound imho and a very nice cylindrical charging case. They cost €249, although occasionally they do 20% off. However, my guess is they’ll come out with a v3 at some point. Not sure when though. 

In terms of wireless with a cable between the buds, JayBirds were really good imho.


----------



## sneakysneaky

MIBUK said:


> My daily commute and gym TWS are the Earin M2. Very small. Good sound imho and a very nice cylindrical charging case. They cost €249, although occasionally they do 20% off. However, my guess is they’ll come out with a v3 at some point. Not sure when though.
> 
> In terms of wireless with a cable between the buds, JayBirds were really good imho.


Thanks for the suggestion , but I forgot to mention my budget, which is 160 Euros :/


----------



## vstolpner

sneakysneaky said:


> Thanks for the suggestion , but I forgot to mention my budget, which is 160 Euros :/



Take a look at the UFO style earphones. I find that case the most portable, along with Wavefun Xpods 3 that I'm currently in the process of reviewing.

For the UFO style look for either Anbes 359 or Kissral R18 as those seem to be best audio quality.

Alternatively take a look at Tiso i4 but I find those far too base heavy.

All of these are under €40 so you could presumably pick up a few and find the right one for you.


----------



## actorlife

Top 10 True Wireless Earbuds


----------



## joelk2

Watching this thread closely. Have gone back and read the last 250 pages or so.

Recently my beatsx have died on me so looking to get a new pair of earbuds and think it's time to go truely wireless. 

My main concern is size. The beats x were small albeit with a cable. But I like the small style and the galaxy buds are looking good in that respect. All the ones mentioned look really big? Do they feel as big as they look?


----------



## hifi80sman (Aug 26, 2019)

sneakysneaky said:


> Hi all!  New member here, but I've been shadowing this thread for quite some time.
> I am not at all experienced with quality headphones. Up 'till a few weeks ago, I was just using earpods that came with my phone.  Then I decided to get some true wireless earbuds.  Due to all the rave reviews, I got the jabra 65t active.  To be honest,  I was really underwhelmed by the sound, no matter what tips I used.  I found the wired earpods sounded better.  On top of that, I found them rather uncomfortable in my ears.
> So I sent them back and I bought the Bose SSF.  Now these things sounded amazing!!! I had no idea that I was missing this much all these years on cheap earbuds!  I also find them comfortable, since they are semi open.
> 
> ...


When you say Bose Soundlink 2, are you talking about the over-ear cans?  If so, they're OK, but there are MUCH BETTER at that price.  I had them, returned them.

If you're looking for a single budget TWS _*and *_an over-ear, then go with any of the following budget options, which all sound great and "exciting".  To be honest, you're really not missing much when compared to the best; diminishing returns 'n all.  However, if you want the best and are OK with 2.5 hours battery, the MW07 are the best in terms of pure SQ.

- MPOW T5
- Anbes 359 (Kissral Variant)
- Tranya T3
- Jlab Jbuds Air Icon
- GRDE TWS
- Cowin KY02

TONS of over-ear/on-ear options in the $100 range that are good.

If you want just ONE good TWS in the $150 range, take a look at the House of Marley Liberate Air.  I just got them over the weekend and they are really good.


----------



## howdy

So far I'm impressed. Still a bit early, they are fairly big even for my big head and ears but they feel good.


----------



## bronco1015

WesennTony said:


> Could you elaborate more about DAC kicking in? Off-topic for this thread but just curious and never experienced it.


Yeah on the DAC, whenever i'd plug headphones like my Sennheiser 630 VB or PM3, it wouldn't always recognize something was plugged into the phone. So would either play no audio, audio out of the phone speaker, or audio would be very low. Or, it would act as expected and recognize that a headphone with higher impedance headphone was plugged in, or that a headphone that could benefit from mor power was plugged in might be a better way to describe it.


----------



## hifi80sman (Aug 26, 2019)

howdy said:


> So far I'm impressed. Still a bit early, they are fairly big even for my big head and ears but they feel good.


I see you got the SpinFits on that bad boy.  Feedback appreciated!

Oh, if you can, please evaluate the mic/call quality.  I use my TWS' for business at times, so it's good to know which ones I need to wear if I'm expecting or making calls.


----------



## bronco1015

JimmyR said:


> Seems they are just out of the oven and still burning... They come with touch controls (thumbs up for that).
> On the down side and always taken with a pinch of salt, the case seems larger that that from previous models (should better shrink, damn) and I'm kind of disappointed that they didn't decide to pack a Qualcomm QCC302X to have true mono mode and better call quality. The description says these come with a Realtek chip
> 
> Anyway, the Tranya brand is kind of a safe bet, so I'm sure they'll be a great pair.
> ...


Thanks for sharing this, i just sent an email to the address in the FB post. Fingers crossed.


----------



## KafkaEsqueMajor

So I have been using my Anbes 359 for a couple months and have been often using only one headphone while biking but recently I can't get them to connect to each other again. I have tried to follow the instruction in the manual by long pressing 4 sec and then another 6 sec and placing them in the case. But when taking them out of the case they're still not connected to each other when hearing music. I have also tried to reset my bluetooth setting and no luck there. Can someone who also own these IEMs tell me how they got theirs worked together?


----------



## FYLegend

jasonb said:


> So the Galaxy Buds just got a firmware update the other day. They seem to sound better than ever.


How do they sound with SBC? The only things putting me off is they are said to sound best with the proprietary Samsung Scalable Codec and cost 199$ CAD.



hifi80sman said:


> Grabbed the House of Marley Liberate Air today.  Never actually purchased anything from H of M before, mostly because I feel they're a bit gimmicky with their marketing.  Against my better judgment, I decided to give them a shot for $149.  Looking at the website, I couldn't figure out if they supported anything other than SBC, so I was basically rolling the dice.  It should be noted, their new over ear flagship only supports SBC.
> 
> Well, pleasantly, VERY pleasantly, surprised.  Not only do they support AAC, but they also support aptX!  How do you NOT describe this in your marketing specs?!
> 
> Sound is crisp, but not too sharp, mids sit nicely in the driver's seat (listening to some Bryan Ferry stuff), and bass is fairly deep, round, and solid.  No noticeable driver flex.  I like these quite a bit and they look quite nice with the bamboo.  Definitely feel good recommending these.


Nice! I recall reading it said AptX in some of the earlier announcements but it wasn't listed on the spec sheet.

Currently looking for something with USB C, AptX and Wireless charging for under 100$... Sabbat E12 ultra fits the bill but not a big fan of the original (although I suspect I got a dud)

It seems like the Firefly Pro actually charges with my Samsung Fast Charging stand, but I have to use a Qualcomm Quick Charge 2.0 or Samsung Adaptive Fast Charging power brick. Unfortunately the Sabbat E12 is too short to be charged on the incline although it w Using a QC3.0 power brick doesn't charge any of them (but still charges my phone).


----------



## jasonb

FYLegend said:


> How do they sound with SBC? The only things putting me off is they are said to sound best with the proprietary Samsung Scalable Codec and cost 199$ CAD.



I use them with the AAC codec.


----------



## howdy

hifi80sman said:


> I see you got the SpinFits on that bad boy.  Feedback appreciated!
> 
> Oh, if you can, please evaluate the mic/call quality.  I use my TWS' for business at times, so it's good to know which ones I need to wear if I'm expecting or making calls.


I try and put Spinfits on everything, they are comfortable and generally make for a good seal.
My Wife called and she can generally tell if I'm using my headphones to talk to her and this time she couldn't tell, she came in very clear as well.

 I was trying out the noise cancelling and it works and works relatively good. I start school again tomorrow and I'll have to see how it blocks all the noise in class.
As for sound, I'm loving it so far. I've heard some say it's bright but I think it's on the warmer side of neutral. Very clear crisp highs great Bass and mids.


----------



## actorlife

A couple of creative TWS on sale:
https://us.creative.com/sale/?utm_s...ium=email&utm_campaign=Mailer_260819_LaborDay


----------



## actorlife (Aug 26, 2019)

KafkaEsqueMajor said:


> So I have been using my Anbes 359 for a couple months and have been often using only one headphone while biking but recently I can't get them to connect to each other again. I have tried to follow the instruction in the manual by long pressing 4 sec and then another 6 sec and placing them in the case. But when taking them out of the case they're still not connected to each other when hearing music. I have also tried to reset my bluetooth setting and no luck there. Can someone who also own these IEMs tell me how they got theirs worked together?


I think there is a solution on YouTube. Do a search. If I find it I'll post it. I had that problem just once when I first got them and never has happened again.

And another top VS fav.


----------



## Gunslinger686

By the way, for you fellows on the US, the official Tranya group in Facebook is asking for US reviewers (beta testers) - https://www.facebook.com/tranya.inf...9649357/510037309759652/?type=3&theater&ifg=1. There is an e-mail for those interested. The call is from only a few hours ago

I sent them an email and got a reply,,,,, looks like I’ll be doing some R&D for Tranya! Thanks for the heads up!


----------



## Caipirina

Question regarding the Wavefun Xpods3 / YTOM T1 : 
How accommodating is the case for other / larger tips?


----------



## bronco1015

Gunslinger686 said:


> By the way, for you fellows on the US, the official Tranya group in Facebook is asking for US reviewers (beta testers) - https://www.facebook.com/tranya.inf...9649357/510037309759652/?type=3&theater&ifg=1. There is an e-mail for those interested. The call is from only a few hours ago
> 
> I sent them an email and got a reply,,,,, looks like I’ll be doing some R&D for Tranya! Thanks for the heads up!


Me too!


----------



## vstolpner

Caipirina said:


> Question regarding the Wavefun Xpods3 / YTOM T1 :
> How accommodating is the case for other / larger tips?



I haven't tried tips that didn't come with it yet, but there isn't much room in there.

Kind of a blessing and a curse because it keeps the case really small.

What kind of tips are you looking to use with it? I can see if i have similar and try


----------



## Caipirina

vstolpner said:


> I haven't tried tips that didn't come with it yet, but there isn't much room in there.
> 
> Kind of a blessing and a curse because it keeps the case really small.
> 
> What kind of tips are you looking to use with it? I can see if i have similar and try



The tips that seem to be included appear to be really small and ‘low profile’ , how about trying any old regular tip size L?


----------



## vstolpner

Caipirina said:


> The tips that seem to be included appear to be really small and ‘low profile’ , how about trying any old regular tip size L?



They have two sets of eartips included: one that's really low profile and one that's more standard (I actually use the L size from that set as I find the relatively shallow fitment requires a larger eartip).

I think wider tips would be fine, it's just the depth of the tip that might not make it for.

I swear I'll get the review out soon.... Literally just need to get around to taking photos :/


----------



## Caipirina

vstolpner said:


> They have two sets of eartips included: one that's really low profile and one that's more standard (I actually use the L size from that set as I find the relatively shallow fitment requires a larger eartip).
> 
> I think wider tips would be fine, it's just the depth of the tip that might not make it for.
> 
> I swear I'll get the review out soon.... Literally just need to get around to taking photos :/



One AliX reviewer seems to be OK with those tips, and they look rather deep. 


 


Also saw a nice size compare shot with the BW FYE5 case, which is probably the smallest case I have ... 

 


Very itchy trigger finger ... maybe I wait a bit more for the review    If it is for the AliX review, don't fret over image quality, lots of freebie reviews look like they shot the pics while they typed


----------



## vstolpner

Yeah I got the Ali freebie review all done - this is for my main review site...

And the eartips look deep, but the size and shape of the earphones prevents a particularly deep fitment. At least that's the case for my ears.


----------



## Caipirina (Aug 27, 2019)

FUNCL W1 for 16.99 on AliX after insta-discount ... that sounds too good to be true?

I have seen them mentioned here quite often. Never found them on AliX before and today they popped up more by chance (they still don't show up when you search for them) 

Worth getting?


----------



## isimsizkomando

@Bartig I read your all review espacially Mpow t5 , do you think they're a good upgrade from the QCY T3?
And you guys if prices were equal, which would you buy? I didnt find any comparison with each other? Is mpow t5 worthy or should i just the cheapiest one( qcy t3) ?


----------



## Caipirina

isimsizkomando said:


> @Bartig I read your all review espacially Mpow t5 , do you think they're a good upgrade from the QCY T3?
> And you guys if prices were equal, which would you buy? I didnt find any comparison with each other? Is mpow t5 worthy or should i just the cheapiest one( qcy t3) ?




Merhaba   

Bartig is on vacation. 

From my perspective (and I have not tried the QCY T3 yet), these 2 are quite different in pretty much all ways: form factor, fit & sound signature. The Mpow I have and they are great in all those categories, plus they offer AptX. From what I understand, the QCY T3 are overall brighter, but that seems to depend very much on the fit, which is very ear depending.

If budget is your thing, the base model of the QCY TWS (the T1, open style box) are pretty great, as are the Haylou G1 

It all boils down to what your personal preferences are, what you want to use them for. 

(and how many TWS boxes you want to end up with    this thread here is a slippery slope and has often lead to ownership of multiples as well as empty wallets)


----------



## posedown

Anyone tried the new Sabbat E12 Ultra with AptX?


----------



## chinmie

Caipirina said:


> FUNCL W1 for 16.99 on AliX after insta-discount ... that sounds too good to be true?
> 
> I have seen them mentioned here quite often. Never found them on AliX before and today they popped up more by chance (they still don't show up when you search for them)
> 
> Worth getting?



tempting, but no volume control and no Aptx. although i like the button controls


----------



## Monstieur (Aug 27, 2019)

openyoureyes said:


> Hello,
> 
> i'm still looking for some TWS mit multipoint connections - without any success (beside the high latency Jabras).
> 
> It seems that the new Qualcomm-Series *(QCC300X,QCC30XX,QCC51XX)* don't support multipoint connections. There is no information in the datasheets. The datasheet for the older CSR8645 on the other hand says: "A2DP multipoint support: 2 A2DP sources". Did they really drop something highly useful like multipoint connections with the new chip series?!


Even if a model supports multi-point pairing, there is the issue of NFMI or Bluetooth chaining which has audible distortion in one channel since it relays using SBC. Only TrueWireless Stereo *Plus* and the Apple Bluetooth chipsets have no distortion.

As a result I'm still sticking with my Shure RMCE-BT2 which supports multi-point pairing as well as aptX Low Latency when required. I've tried the new AirPods & PowerBeats Pro and while the sound quality is excellent, the latency is still high.


----------



## gibletzor

bronco1015 said:


> Me too!


I have been accepted as well!


----------



## JimmyR

bronco1015 said:


> Me too!



Awesome!! If you want to return me the (little) favor, please share your experiences with them here....before you send them to Tranya, indeed


----------



## clerkpalmer

Me three


----------



## gibletzor

Caipirina said:


> FUNCL W1 for 16.99 on AliX after insta-discount ... that sounds too good to be true?
> 
> I have seen them mentioned here quite often. Never found them on AliX before and today they popped up more by chance (they still don't show up when you search for them)
> 
> Worth getting?


I got them during a Prime Day sale and returned them within a week.  They sound great, but not Mpow T5  great.  My problem was the right earbud dropping connection if I was doing anything but sitting still.


----------



## chinmie

i just saw this demo video of the  ANC TWS, do you guys think that it sticks out too much?


----------



## JimmyR

FYLegend said:


> Currently looking for something with USB C, AptX and Wireless charging for under 100$... Sabbat E12 ultra fits the bill but not a big fan of the original (although I suspect I got a dud)



So, the one you've got and you had gripes about is the non-Ultra Sabbat E12?? I thought you got the new Ultra (Aptx) model...  

Another option meeting your specs is the newly released Whizzer B6 (that look just a rebranding of the Mezone B6) - https://aliexpress.com/item/4000067786605.html?spm=a2g0s.8937460.0.0.34b52e0e87QFhA


----------



## Caipirina (Aug 27, 2019)

chinmie said:


> i just saw this demo video of the  ANC TWS, do you guys think that it sticks out too much?



I checked both videos (Samload & Bonola) and in both cases they were smart enough to not show it in profile 

I think they will stick out quite some, like the Bose SSF ... I will see and report back in a few weeks ... with coupon and such got the Bonola one for 32.59 

Yes, I have a problem ...

Edit: found this photo from a German reviewer of the Bonola (somehow i can't upload that image .. did I hit some kind of total amount of posted images limit?)


----------



## bronco1015

JimmyR said:


> Awesome!! If you want to return me the (little) favor, please share your experiences with them here....before you send them to Tranya, indeed


 I got you. Thanks again for sharing the FB post.


----------



## bronco1015

clerkpalmer said:


> Me three


Nice!


----------



## chinmie

Caipirina said:


> I checked both videos (Samload & Bonola) and in both cases they were smart enough to not show it in profile
> 
> I think they will stick out quite some, like the Bose SSF ... I will see and report back in a few weeks ... with coupon and such got the Bonola one for 32.59
> 
> ...



yup, i saw that pic too, i showed it to my son, and he laughed... i have a really critical son 
i was so dead set on buying it on this sale because of the interesting ANC, but i ended up purchasing another BT20S and a Planar iem, so i guess i'll wait for the next sale (and wait for your review )


----------



## howdy

chinmie said:


> yup, i saw that pic too, i showed it to my son, and he laughed... i have a really critical son
> i was so dead set on buying it on this sale because of the interesting ANC, but i ended up purchasing another BT20S and a Planar iem, so i guess i'll wait for the next sale (and wait for your review )


Was it you that just bought the i3?


----------



## Caipirina

howdy said:


> Was it you that just bought the i3?


 what i3? What planar IEM? 

As if I need anything else to obsess about  

Thought about getting the BT20S ...  maybe 11.11 ... still ok with the regular BT20


----------



## actorlife

Gunslinger686 said:


> By the way, for you fellows on the US, the official Tranya group in Facebook is asking for US reviewers (beta testers) - https://www.facebook.com/tranya.inf...9649357/510037309759652/?type=3&theater&ifg=1. There is an e-mail for those interested. The call is from only a few hours ago
> 
> I sent them an email and got a reply,,,,, looks like I’ll be doing some R&D for Tranya! Thanks for the heads up!


Thanks I really appreciate you posting this. I sent an email and hopefully I'll get a pair sent. Here's hoping since I've been having the worse year ever. ✌️✌️✌️


----------



## vstolpner (Aug 27, 2019)

JimmyR said:


> Awesome!! If you want to return me the (little) favor, please share your experiences with them here....before you send them to Tranya, indeed



Do they expect you to send them back? Would be first review sample I've seen that with (especially considering these go in your ears, so kind of gross if they try to resell)

Edit: also, me four


----------



## howdy

Caipirina said:


> what i3? What planar IEM?
> 
> As if I need anything else to obsess about
> 
> Thought about getting the BT20S ...  maybe 11.11 ... still ok with the regular BT20


Somebody from this thread bought the new LCDi3, I thought it was you.


----------



## clerkpalmer

I got the i3. Mw07 on massdrop for 199


----------



## actorlife

Caipirina said:


> FUNCL W1 for 16.99 on AliX after insta-discount ... that sounds too good to be true?
> 
> I have seen them mentioned here quite often. Never found them on AliX before and today they popped up more by chance (they still don't show up when you search for them)
> 
> Worth getting?


They are close to the 359 SQ. Sparkly highs and good bass. Only flaw is no volume control. If they had vol control I'd recommend them more often. Mine were $25, so you're getting a good deal. Are you gonna be gifting most of your TWS for Christmas to family? I can see that happening. ✌️


----------



## Caipirina

actorlife said:


> They are close to the 359 SQ. Sparkly highs and good bass. Only flaw is no volume control. If they had vol control I'd recommend them more often. Mine were $25, so you're getting a good deal. Are you gonna be gifting most of your TWS for Christmas to family? I can see that happening. ✌️



Experienced any connection issues? 

What? Giving my babies away? Nevaaaahhh!!!


----------



## actorlife

Caipirina said:


> Experienced any connection issues?
> 
> What? Giving my babies away? Nevaaaahhh!!!


No bad connection here. I used them recently on my bike ride and no cutoffs at all. Having SBC only like the 359 they sound fantastic. I don't own any apple stuff so those codecs font mean squat, except aptx, which my Cayin N3 has. The main reason I want the T5 is to see if any sound difference with aptx. 
Come man give the stuff you don't use to family. Rahahaha.


----------



## Caipirina

actorlife said:


> No bad connection here. I used them recently on my bike ride and no cutoffs at all. Having SBC only like the 359 they sound fantastic. I don't own any apple stuff so those codecs font mean squat, except aptx, which my Cayin N3 has. The main reason I want the T5 is to see if any sound difference with aptx.
> Come man give the stuff you don't use to family. Rahahaha.



I am really trying to keep them all in rotation   and wife already got one pair (she is a total BT-phobe, so she got a 'good' airpod clone with faux W1 chip  ) ...


----------



## WesennTony

FYI, drop (former massdrop) has MW07 for $199.


----------



## actorlife (Aug 27, 2019)

Caipirina said:


> I am really trying to keep them all in rotation   and wife already got one pair (she is a total BT-phobe, so she got a 'good' airpod clone with faux W1 chip  ) ...


Charging the Funcl W1 right now. Will see if I get cutoffs at home. I'm waiting for Funcl and Anbes to come out with aptx.
Question for everyone:
Is there a big difference between aptx and aptXHD? And are there any BUDGET(broke) chifi TWS/DAP with aptXHD with clear highs and bass?

30$ with coupon. 
[Upgraded Version of T1] TRANYA True Wireless Earbuds Built-in Microphone, Bluetooth 5.0 Deep Bass True Wireless Headphones, 7 Hours Continuous Playtime, 60 Hours Playtime with Charging Case, T1-Pro https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07RW44S7Y/ref=cm_sw_r_sms_apa_i_yMuzDb89NYBKV


----------



## chinmie

howdy said:


> Was it you that just bought the i3?



nope, I bought one from the brand that is not supposed to be talked about here in headfi


----------



## sneakysneaky

hifi80sman said:


> When you say Bose Soundlink 2, are you talking about the over-ear cans?  If so, they're OK, but there are MUCH BETTER at that price.  I had them, returned them.
> 
> If you're looking for a single budget TWS _*and *_an over-ear, then go with any of the following budget options, which all sound great and "exciting".  To be honest, you're really not missing much when compared to the best; diminishing returns 'n all.  However, if you want the best and are OK with 2.5 hours battery, the MW07 are the best in terms of pure SQ.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the recommendations!  Honestly, what got me buying the SSF was your impression a few hundred posts back.  So the budget options you suggested sound just as good?
I thought you weren't that impressed by the Liberate airs.  Don't they only support SBC?


----------



## actorlife

sneakysneaky said:


> Thanks for the recommendations!  Honestly, what got me buying the SSF was your impression a few hundred posts back.  So the budget options you suggested sound just as good?
> I thought you weren't that impressed by the Liberate airs.  Don't they only support SBC?


SBC is not a bad thing. Most of my TWS have them and they sound fantastic. The actual tuning  is the real important Thang. ✌️


----------



## howdy

I forgot to mention the range on the Sony X3 is amazing. I had it on priority on sound which should weaken/shorten the range and I was able to leave my phone upstairs in the middle of my house and go anywhere downstairs and even out in the backyard without one single drop out. None of my others have passed this test, so props to Sony!


----------



## webvan

chinmie said:


> i just saw this demo video of the  ANC TWS, do you guys think that it sticks out too much?


Not as bad as I thought, got a link for the video ? Thanks !


----------



## Tavleen Suri

webvan said:


> Not as bad as I thought, got a link for the video ? Thanks !





WesennTony said:


> FYI, drop (former massdrop) has MW07 for $199.


Wud hv bought them if not for the atrocious battery life....somebody mentioned here that the new colors have better battery life....dont remember who that was ....can they confirm what color it was and how much runtime they re getting ??


----------



## actorlife

Got no reply from Tranya yet.  Did everyone get a fast reply?  My great luck this year I bet all slots taken.


----------



## gibletzor

actorlife said:


> Got no reply from Tranya yet.  Did everyone get a fast reply?  My great luck this year I bet all slots taken.


I did.  Talked to the rep last night.  Mine should be here next week.


----------



## Silentism

sorry if this isn't the right thread to ask, but I'm trying to find out more about the Nuarl NT01AX.  
I own Sennheiser HD6xx and momentum 2.0 over-ears.  
I've tried Bose Soundsports Free and actually really liked the fit, especially cuz they're not in-ears. The sound signature was kinda close to the 6xx too.  
Right now I'm deciding between the soundsports or the Nuarl. Anyone tried both and can say which one might be a more neutral signature? or maybe which one is closer to the hd 6xx sound signature?


----------



## vstolpner

actorlife said:


> Got no reply from Tranya yet.  Did everyone get a fast reply?  My great luck this year I bet all slots taken.



Yeah, got a reply same day.


----------



## JimmyR

vstolpner said:


> Do they expect you to send them back? Would be first review sample I've seen that with (especially considering these go in your ears, so kind of gross if they try to resell)
> 
> Edit: also, me four



I meant the feedback comments. Don’t think you need to send them back after testing...but I dunno. I just saw the offering and share it here ‍♂️
Let us know how Tranya is driving this testing process.

Ummm, are they shipping those to you for free? 

Well, enjoy then anyways and glad to see there is a bunch of headfiers contributing to

P.S : you kind of make me quite jealous!


----------



## albau (Aug 27, 2019)

Tavleen Suri said:


> Wud hv bought them if not for the atrocious battery life....somebody mentioned here that the new colors have better battery life....dont remember who that was ....can they confirm what color it was and how much runtime they re getting ??


2.5 hours max before warnings. To me it's still totally worth fabulous SQ. Every time I have to use T5 as a backup I'm reminded of the difference. And these are the best that ChiFi has to offer.


----------



## hifi80sman

sneakysneaky said:


> Thanks for the recommendations!  Honestly, what got me buying the SSF was your impression a few hundred posts back.  So the budget options you suggested sound just as good?
> I thought you weren't that impressed by the Liberate airs.  Don't they only support SBC?


The Bose SSF are a very good sounding TWS.  The only issues are the semi-open config (obviously they're designed that way), they stick out, and poor distance from source.

I *do *like the Liberate Air quite a bit.  They have aptX and AAC, even though their marketing does not say they do.  I've been using them for several days now, including with business calls, and I'm very satisfied.

The budget options sound good, but I wouldn't say they sound as good or better than the SSF, however, the increased isolation does help "fill out" the sound.  The safest budget bet, IMO, is the MPOW T5.


----------



## hifi80sman

albau said:


> 2.5 hours max before warnings. To me it's still totally worth fabulous SQ. Every time I have to use T5 as a backup I'm reminded of the difference. And these are the best that ChiFi has to offer.


Agreed.  As long as you're OK with 2.5 hours of bliss and have good backups, it's worth the plunge if you have the cash.


----------



## hifi80sman

JimmyR said:


> I meant the feedback comments. Don’t think you need to send them back after testing...but I dunno. I just saw the offering and share it here ‍♂️
> Let us know how Tranya is driving this testing process.
> 
> Ummm, are they shipping those to you for free?
> ...


I received an email from them and they want you to pay for it, then they will refund half, then the remaining half when your review is complete.  Too much trouble for me, so I'll just wait for some feedback.

In the meantime, i just ordered the FIIL TWS.  I have their on-ear headphones, which are quite good, so hoping these measure up to those.  It says noise cancelling, but that's just the mic (I hate when they do that).


----------



## vstolpner

JimmyR said:


> I meant the feedback comments. Don’t think you need to send them back after testing...but I dunno. I just saw the offering and share it here ‍♂️
> Let us know how Tranya is driving this testing process.
> 
> Ummm, are they shipping those to you for free?
> ...



It's ordered through Amazon, so prime shipping


----------



## actorlife

hifi80sman said:


> I received an email from them and they want you to pay for it, then they will refund half, then the remaining half when your review is complete.  Too much trouble for me, so I'll just wait for some feedback.


Dang. OK thanks for the heads up. I won't pay, so I'm out if they ask.


----------



## gibletzor

actorlife said:


> Dang. OK thanks for the heads up. I won't pay, so I'm out if they ask.


I went ahead and did it.  If they don't fulfill their end, it's easy enough to send them back to Amazon.


----------



## actorlife

gibletzor said:


> I went ahead and did it.  If they don't fulfill their end, it's easy enough to send them back to Amazon.


I would do it, but I'm on a heavy duty rough budget. Can't wait for your thoughts. Rahaha I punish myself coming here.


----------



## gibletzor

actorlife said:


> I would do it, but I'm on a heavy duty rough budget. Can't wait for your thoughts. Rahaha I punish myself coming here.


I'm be sure to let you all know.  Also I get my IE600s today!


----------



## vstolpner

actorlife said:


> I would do it, but I'm on a heavy duty rough budget. Can't wait for your thoughts. Rahaha I punish myself coming here.





gibletzor said:


> I'm be sure to let you all know.  Also I get my IE600s today!



I signed up as well, figured if there's something fishy or some problems then I'll just use Amazon's return policy. But Tranya seems to be a pretty good brand so I'm not too worried... Plus I'm really curious lol


----------



## willyk

JimmyR said:


> Seems they are just out of the oven and still burning... They come with touch controls (thumbs up for that).
> On the down side and always taken with a pinch of salt, the case seems larger that that from previous models (should better shrink, damn) and I'm kind of disappointed that they didn't decide to pack a Qualcomm QCC302X to have true mono mode and better call quality. The description says these come with a Realtek chip
> 
> Anyway, the Tranya brand is kind of a safe bet, so I'm sure they'll be a great pair.
> ...



I am in on this.
Thanks for the heads-up!


----------



## actorlife

Caipirina been using the Funcl W1. No breaks ups and might be the best TWS I own that let's you go 30ish feet without breakup. If only it had vol control they'd be my top two. So damn clear too for music and dialog. Buy buy buy.


----------



## jant71

actorlife said:


> Caipirina been using the Funcl W1. No breaks ups and might be the best TWS I own that let's you go 30ish feet without breakup. If only it had vol control they'd be my top two. So damn clear too for music and dialog. Buy buy buy.



How can you have none. Some have to be good. I can put my player on the fence on one side of the basketball court and run up and down full court with the BackBay Duet 50 and in line no obstruction I can go to 70 feet. It will have a quick small break up if I am on the other end and turn sideways in a way that blocks the signal with my head or arm perhaps. My player is a measley AGPtek with BT4.0 also. 5.0 -> 5.0 is supposed to be better.


----------



## Caipirina

webvan said:


> Not as bad as I thought, got a link for the video ? Thanks !



The videos are on the product pages for the Samload and Bonola ANC TWS on AliX


----------



## sanity8me

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07JZHC41T/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_i_fuCzDbBMGHFXH

Xmyth V5? Anyone try these?

Per one reviewer, they have an ambient noise passthrough mode which is something I'm looking for.


----------



## gibletzor (Aug 27, 2019)

actorlife said:


> Caipirina been using the Funcl W1. No breaks ups and might be the best TWS I own that let's you go 30ish feet without breakup. If only it had vol control they'd be my top two. So damn clear too for music and dialog. Buy buy buy.


That is almost opposite my experience.  My Galaxy Buds and the Aukey T10 I tried had waaaay better range.  Maybe I got a bad unit...


----------



## gibletzor

@actorlife, what dark magic is in these Alterolas??  They are so tiny but make so much noise!!??


----------



## actorlife (Aug 27, 2019)

gibletzor said:


> @actorlife, what dark magic is in these Alterolas??  They are so tiny but make so much noise!!??


Voodoo rahaha. Ain't they something? I could not believe my ears for only 30 bucks.

OK I got an email from Tranya and just replied that I'm interested. I think I will pay for them and take the chance, hopefully we can keep them. Did everyone pay $59? I saw them for less I think 40 shipped with 10 bucks off earlier today on amazon. Maybe I'm tired dunno. I'll recheck. Edit. Nope 59$ arrgg I should not do this, but but but


----------



## gibletzor (Aug 27, 2019)

actorlife said:


> Voodoo rahaha. Ain't they something? I could not believe my ears for only 30 bucks.
> 
> OK I got an email from Tranya and just replied that I'm interested. I think I will pay for them and take the chance, hopefully we can keep them. Did everyone pay $59? I saw them for less I think 40 shipped with 10 bucks off earlier today on amazon. Maybe I'm tired dunno. I'll recheck.


Yeah I paid 59 and they're supposed to refund it.  I think the ones you saw on sale are the T1 Pro or T2.  I've seen them on sale a lot recently.

And yes those Alterolas are crazy!


----------



## actorlife

gibletzor said:


> Yeah I paid 59 and they're supposed to refund it.  I think the ones you saw on sale are the T1 Pro or T2.  I've seen them on sale a lot recently.
> 
> And yes those Alterolas are crazy!


It was the T3. Darn. I'll regret it if I don't especially if we can keep them. I'm screwING in. Just waiting for Ida to reply back to me. Phew I'm so excited. ✌️

Yep those Aterola IE600 are amaze balls. Been trying to tell everyone, but alot of members are out of the US and hard to get there. They are my 2nd favorite after the long departed 359.


----------



## gibletzor

actorlife said:


> It was the T3. Darn. I'll regret it if I don't especially if we can keep them. I'm screwING in. Just waiting for Ida to reply back to me. Phew I'm so excited. ✌️
> 
> Yep those Aterola IE600 are amaze balls. Been trying to tell everyone, but alot of members are out of the US and hard to get there. They are my 2nd favorite after the long departed 359.


I've only listened to them for about 30 minutes so far.  Didn't come with much charge.  I'll get more time this weekend for sure with them.  And they're surprisingly comfortable for how weird the nozzle and ear tips are!


----------



## Caipirina

gibletzor said:


> That is almost opposite my experience.  My Galaxy Buds and the Aukey T10 I tried had waaaay better range.  Maybe I got a bad unit...



Thanks @gibletzor  and @actorlife  ... guess I have to take my own chances  Hard to resist at this price 

Now, how do I get my grubby hands on some Alterola? ....


----------



## Gunslinger686

JimmyR said:


> I meant the feedback comments. Don’t think you need to send them back after testing...but I dunno. I just saw the offering and share it here ‍♂️
> Let us know how Tranya is driving this testing process.
> 
> Ummm, are they shipping those to you for free?
> ...




This is one of the 5  parameters apparently required to participate and I’m not quite sure what this means ?
“””” 5. Please noted, the test report is means the Amazon product comment.“”””” ,,,,,, anyone care to elaborate ?


----------



## vstolpner

Gunslinger686 said:


> This is one of the 5  parameters apparently required to participate and I’m not quite sure what this means ?
> “””” 5. Please noted, the test report is means the Amazon product comment.“”””” ,,,,,, anyone care to elaborate ?




It just means you have to leave feedback on Amazon


----------



## actorlife

gibletzor said:


> Yeah I paid 59 and they're supposed to refund it.  I think the ones you saw on sale are the T1 Pro or T2.  I've seen them on sale a lot recently.
> 
> And yes those Alterolas are crazy!



Well I just ordered the Tranya B530. It says I should get it Sept 4 or 5th. Hooray new toy. I hope it's a TWS killer. Just happy it's a 8hr fricken battery.


----------



## hifi80sman (Aug 28, 2019)

Some feedback on the FIIL.

They are basically the Samsung Galaxy Buds with better bass and fuller overall sound.  AAC codec.  Calls seem to work well, but I need to test some more.  Full range touch controls (vol, track, pause/play).  Comfortable fit.  Passive isolation is very good.  Perfect for iPhone users.

For $55, these are a GREAT option in that range and I honestly think the sound definitely punches above it's price point.


----------



## Soreniglio

hifi80sman said:


> Some feedback on the FIIL.
> 
> They are basically the Samsung Galaxy Buds with better bass and fuller overall sound.  AAC codec.  Calls seem to work well, but I need to test some more.  Full range touch controls (vol, track, pause/play).  Comfortable fit.  Passive isolation is very good.  Perfect for iPhone users.
> 
> For $55, these are a GREAT option in that range and I honestly think the sound definitely punches above it's price point.



I think these are impossible to find on the EU market, I've been looking for them for 20 minutes straight now


----------



## hifi80sman

Soreniglio said:


> I think these are impossible to find on the EU market, I've been looking for them for 20 minutes straight now


Found them on AliExpress, but way more expensive.


----------



## posedown

I´m still enjoying my Mpow T5. They are really great. But i will never wear them outside, beacuse they stick out so wide.
I´m looking for the new Sabbat E12 Ultra with AptX. But i only found them in this camouflage look. 

And never found a review of them...


----------



## Caipirina

As if it wasn't bad enough that we have to wade through masses of AirPods clones when looking for new stuff on AliX ... the clone masters of Shenzen have now caught up with the PowerBeats (and much better (optically) than the one I posted like 2 weeks ago) ... and soon I guess these will dominate the search results for TWS ... 


 

I actually kinda dig the non-logo appearance  But pretty sure that the first few iterations will sound like crap ... they just want to get them out the door as quickly as possible. 

Wouldn't mind some other colors


----------



## Caipirina

posedown said:


> I´m still enjoying my Mpow T5. They are really great. But i will never wear them outside, beacuse they stick out so wide.



I think at my age I ran out of fcuks to give when it comes to appearances  
I don't mind neither my Bose SSF nor Mpow T5 sticking out. 

Or are you afraid they might fall out? I have done several runs with them and they sit very nicely ...


----------



## BobJS

hifi80sman said:


> The Bose SSF are a very good sounding TWS.  The only issues are the semi-open config (obviously they're designed that way), they stick out, and poor distance from source.
> 
> I *do *like the Liberate Air quite a bit.  They have aptX and AAC, even though their marketing does not say they do.  I've been using them for several days now, including with business calls, and I'm very satisfied.
> 
> The budget options sound good, but I wouldn't say they sound as good or better than the SSF, however, the increased isolation does help "fill out" the sound.  The safest budget bet, IMO, is the MPOW T5.



If I'm happy with MW07 battery life and sound, should I try the Liberate Air?  In other words, how does Liberate Air compare with MW07 in terms of sound and form factor (which is more comfortable, which sticks out more)?


----------



## posedown

Caipirina said:


> I think at my age I ran out of fcuks to give when it comes to appearances
> I don't mind neither my Bose SSF nor Mpow T5 sticking out.
> 
> Or are you afraid they might fall out? I have done several runs with them and they sit very nicely ...



They are very safe. But I do not want to be seen like that.


----------



## actorlife

Did you guys get your half back on the B530 yet?


----------



## d3myz

actorlife said:


> Did you guys get your half back on the B530 yet?


I haven't. but to be fair I ordered mine at 2am after receiving an email from Ida @ tranya and they haven't shipped yet.


----------



## clerkpalmer

d3myz said:


> I haven't. but to be fair I ordered mine at 2am after receiving an email from Ida @ tranya and they haven't shipped yet.



About to place my order.  Just so I'm clear because the instructions weren't super clear, we purchase on amazon and then they refund via paypal?  But we don't have to use paypal right?


----------



## d3myz

clerkpalmer said:


> About to place my order.  Just so I'm clear because the instructions weren't super clear, we purchase on amazon and then they refund via paypal?  But we don't have to use paypal right?


That was my take. I figured if they don't refund me, I can always return them to amazon.


----------



## actorlife

d3myz said:


> I haven't. but to be fair I ordered mine at 2am after receiving an email from Ida @ tranya and they haven't shipped yet.


I haven't checked myself yet. But will check tonight. Was just curious. I'm guessing more than 30 peeps will be reviewing these. Whoever gets these first please let us know and post pics. I hope mine get here this week. I'm so darn curious and salivating since its been over two month and no toys. Being unemployed really sucks. Sniff sniff


----------



## vstolpner

actorlife said:


> Did you guys get your half back on the B530 yet?



We should get it back only after Amazon ships. Mine are supposed to ship next week


----------



## actorlife (Aug 28, 2019)

vstolpner said:


> We should get it back only after Amazon ships. Mine are supposed to ship next week


Mine now says receiving Wed Sept 4. Although it has not shipped yet. I will check later to see if shipped. Arggg hurry up. Look at my sig  edit. I just emailed Ida to see if I can keep them after my review. Hopefully Rahahaha


----------



## WesennTony

First couple of hours with BT20S paired with Kanas Pro are quite satisfying. I could not tell the difference from wired in terms of SQ and details with loseless music files other than DSD/SACD, though still too early to tell. Also my KPE haven't reached 100hr burn-in yet, so I hope the sound can still be improved. So far beyond my expectation. Currently I'll say they can rival any of TWS I've tried including Nuarl NT01AX and MW07 SQ-wise. I can hear a low hiss in a quiet surrounding, but am not annoyed whatsoever. 

Also a nice surprise that BT20S connect to my LG V30 with AptX automatically. This never happens to all of my TWS as they always default to AAC. How can BT20S get it right?


----------



## Caipirina

posedown said:


> They are very safe. But I do not want to be seen like that.



I wonder how all those AirPod users live with those white sticks hanging down their ears


----------



## clerkpalmer

WesennTony said:


> First couple of hours with BT20S paired with Kanas Pro are quite satisfying. I could not tell the difference from wired in terms of SQ and details with loseless music files other than DSD/SACD, though still too early to tell. Also my KPE haven't reached 100hr burn-in yet, so I hope the sound can still be improved. So far beyond my expectation. Currently I'll say they can rival any of TWS I've tried including Nuarl NT01AX and MW07 SQ-wise. I can hear a low hiss in a quiet surrounding, but am not annoyed whatsoever.
> 
> Also a nice surprise that BT20S connect to my LG V30 with AptX automatically. This never happens to all of my TWS as they always default to AAC. How can BT20S get it right?



Thanks. I was eying this combo but stayed away as some impressions suggested the Kansas pro may require an amp. Definitely interested in your continuing thoughts.


----------



## actorlife (Aug 28, 2019)

Caipirina said:


> I wonder how all those AirPod users live with those white sticks hanging down their ears


I don't like those stick TWS yuck. They seem old school now. The Syllables are weird looking, but not as bad as those sticks.


----------



## Caipirina

actorlife said:


> I don't like those stick TWS yuck. They seem old school now. The Syllables are weird looking, but not as bad as those sticks.



One Japanese reviewer once compared them with udon-noodles stick out of ears  

But that form factor sure raised awareness, even my 83 year old dad knew what those were (while he could not fathom what those black, bean shaped things were I stuffed into my ears)  

I just find that this stick factor (i.e. on my Whizzer TP1) make it harder to create a good seal. For the earbud style of the airpods this is ok, for casual 'background' music.


----------



## WesennTony

clerkpalmer said:


> Thanks. I was eying this combo but stayed away as some impressions suggested the Kansas pro may require an amp. Definitely interested in your continuing thoughts.


That's interesting. KPE wired make not much difference through my phone LG V30 and Chord Hugo 2, at least to my ears, not like other DD iems like IE800. Maybe it's the burn-in thing.


----------



## JimmyR

posedown said:


> I´m still enjoying my Mpow T5. They are really great. But i will never wear them outside, beacuse they stick out so wide.
> I´m looking for the new Sabbat E12 Ultra with AptX. But i only found them in this camouflage look.
> 
> And never found a review of them...



I'm also intrigued with how well the E12 Ultra goes and if the new Qualcomm chip is gonna be a worthy upgrade over the first version (that I love except for the crappy mic)... Really you cannot find them in a color other than camo? I have no problems getting them popping out in both AliX and Amazon (Spain) just by looking for "Sabbat E12 qcc3020" in both camo and traditional colors.

For the review, stay tuned to Gamesky channel on YT - https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCO4ZTteyr13tn2rG5hLu8pg . According what he said in a recent video, he'll be getting them this week and would post a review video soon after.


----------



## Caipirina (Aug 28, 2019)

Look what the mailman dragged in ...




Some first impression thoughts for now:

a) they work as advertized.
b) the charging case is big!
c) infuriating R/L switcheroo in box, why oh why keep designers do that?
d) my first TWE with battery indicator in % and for each ear separately. Neat-o.
e) not easy to get a good fit, did a lot of digging in my big ol' box of forgotten eartips and finally found something that would create a seal.
f) once I got a good seal I experienced that there can be something like 'way too much bass' ... this can become a bass monster! Maybe I am not supposed to seal it up?
g) no bells & whistles in the mid/highs ... it's there, it's ok, it does not sparkle. (Maybe this can improve over time? Warming up those 8mm drivers?)

Overall I am happy that this is not total trash, it has a bit of the guilty pleasure vibe those 10$ Anbes with their booming bass delivered .. .

It is VERY unclear if / how waterproof those are! There are not fancy pictures with splashes or drops in any of the descriptions. Shops vary with stating everything from IPX4 to IP67. But the instruction leaflet clearly says 'keep away from humidity, do not soak' ... so, sport & sweat at one's own risk ...  (actually, just found on product box it says 'sweat & water resistant' ... YMMV    )

To be clear, those are NOT the new powerbeats  these are the PowerHBQ for less than 30$


----------



## hifi80sman

BobJS said:


> If I'm happy with MW07 battery life and sound, should I try the Liberate Air?  In other words, how does Liberate Air compare with MW07 in terms of sound and form factor (which is more comfortable, which sticks out more)?


The Liberate Air's form factor is similar to the MPOW T5, so they stick out a little, but nothing like the SSF.  If you're happy with the MW07 battery and sound, I don't think the Liberate Air will replace it, but it would be a good backup (they sound nice and have a 9 hour battery).


----------



## Richsvt

I'm new here as I have been seriously considering dipping my toes in the BT arena. I'm not as up on some of the models everyone is talking about, so go easy.
My son has the TFZ clone out there and loves it.
I just got the Tranya 3, due in tomorrow. With the discounts from Amazon and some small credits I had, getting this for near nothing. Will post some impressions after I get some head-time.
I've always have been a wired guy, so this is new ground.


----------



## JimmyR

Just lurking a moment on Amazon and came across these handsome buddies - https://www.amazon.com/Bluetooth-Ea...coding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=RTTQ6K44W8CXV0ZQDX2J on sale for only 35 US$

Seems to have been put out recently. 

The first thing that caught my attention is the sleek look of both of the case and buds themselves. 

Spec-wise they sound pretty solid and looks like they're ticking a lot of boxes:
* New Qualcomm chip with AptX
* 8 hours of play time plus massive full recharges from the case - Up to 19 for a total of 152 astonished
* IPX7
* Touch controls with full set of commands (including volume control)
* True mono mode - (according to one of the Q&A)

And that for only 35 US$

Unfortunately, not shipping to my country yet....I wouldn´t hesitate to give them a try otherwise.
Whatever they might unfold, I'm glad to see than more and more the bare minimum for TWSs are becoming mainstream at reasonable prices...
Also glad that the QCC3020 chip starts to become pervasive


----------



## hifi80sman

Richsvt said:


> I'm new here as I have been seriously considering dipping my toes in the BT arena. I'm not as up on some of the models everyone is talking about, so go easy.
> My son has the TFZ clone out there and loves it.
> I just got the Tranya 3, due in tomorrow. With the discounts from Amazon and some small credits I had, getting this for near nothing. Will post some impressions after I get some head-time.
> I've always have been a wired guy, so this is new ground.


Lose the chains.  You'll feel like Andy Dufresne.


----------



## Caipirina

JimmyR said:


> Just lurking a moment on Amazon and came across these handsome buddies - https://www.amazon.com/Bluetooth-Ea...coding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=RTTQ6K44W8CXV0ZQDX2J on sale for only 35 US$
> 
> Seems to have been put out recently.
> 
> ...


Looks like a retooled version of the Havit i93 with same looks but all new specs.


----------



## actorlife

JimmyR said:


> Just lurking a moment on Amazon and came across these handsome buddies - https://www.amazon.com/Bluetooth-Ea...coding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=RTTQ6K44W8CXV0ZQDX2J on sale for only 35 US$
> 
> Seems to have been put out recently.
> 
> ...


OH man that is so tempting. Hifi80 PLEASE get these and review them.


----------



## JimmyR

Caipirina said:


> Looks like a retooled version of the Havit i93 with same looks but all new specs.



Good catch...man, you can easily be the most complete fin-TWS-printing database alive on planet ! Instant recognition 

They even had the subtlety to slightly modify the slogan printed on the case - "Take" for "have". Jokes apart, sounds like such an upgrade on the inside side of thing for those


----------



## d3myz (Aug 28, 2019)

JimmyR said:


> Just lurking a moment on Amazon and came across these handsome buddies - https://www.amazon.com/Bluetooth-Ea...coding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=RTTQ6K44W8CXV0ZQDX2J on sale for only 35 US$
> 
> Seems to have been put out recently.
> 
> ...


Also, looks a lot like the MPOW T5. i'm going to grab them and check them out.

hmm.. https://www.amazon.com/Bluetooth-Ea...havit+tws&qid=1567013556&s=electronics&sr=1-4


----------



## Inear

Adv-sound has new TWS coming out. with APTX, AAC

https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/...381835341&mc_cid=e1be59a7f1&mc_eid=c985c0cc14


----------



## vstolpner (Aug 28, 2019)

Inear said:


> Adv-sound has new TWS coming out. with APTX, AAC
> 
> https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/...381835341&mc_cid=e1be59a7f1&mc_eid=c985c0cc14



Umm... We've seen these about a month back on Alibaba.... I think they were around $65 or so...

Anyone remember that post?

_Edited to include quote_


----------



## actorlife (Aug 28, 2019)

d3myz said:


> Also, looks a lot like the MPOW T5. i'm going to grab them and check them out.
> 
> hmm.. https://www.amazon.com/Bluetooth-Ea...havit+tws&qid=1567013556&s=electronics&sr=1-4


Heck yeah. I see they were $60 before from a reviewer. Must be a sale. 8hr battery, phone charger and Aptx Man so tempted.


----------



## JimmyR

vstolpner said:


> Umm... We've seen these about a month back on Alibaba.... I think they were around $65 or so...
> 
> Anyone remember that post?



These they are - https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/Ancreu-NEW-T2-Bluetooths-5-0_62002131539.html 

Bloody expensive even on wholesale at massive volume. I anticipate those not gonna be cheap at all


----------



## d3myz

Inear said:


> Adv-sound has new TWS coming out. with APTX, AAC
> 
> https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/...381835341&mc_cid=e1be59a7f1&mc_eid=c985c0cc14


I got excited about these too until i realized they were already being made by a different manufacturer. Hopefully Advanced is tuning them and not just having Alibaba put logos on them. I'm hoping i'll get a better price tahn $100 with an earlybird discount. see the link below. 

Ancreu T2


----------



## vstolpner

JimmyR said:


> These they are - https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/Ancreu-NEW-T2-Bluetooths-5-0_62002131539.html
> 
> Bloody expensive even on wholesale at massive volume. I anticipate those not gonna be cheap at all




Wait a second... I'm sure these were $65 when we first saw them? Not $260+!!!!


----------



## JimmyR

hifi80sman said:


> For those on a budget, I just picked these up at Best Buy over the weekend.  For $59, they're great.  Full range touch controls (track, vol, etc.), AAC, 6 hours battery, and nice sound.  If you're looking at Chi-Fi in the $50 range, these are a great non-Chi-Fi budget option that really stands its own ground.  Exciting, clear sound (Signature EQ), although my guilty pleasure is the Bass Boost EQ.
> 
> https://www.jlabaudio.com/products/jbuds-air-icon-true-wireless-earbuds



Let me bring this from @hifi80sman for a moment... If I don't recall wrong, you also own the Jbuds Executive Air? How'd you compare them? Is mic quality much superior on the Execs?

For some reason, I've good concept of this brand and wouldn't mind to get one. I saw the Executives just a couple of days ago listed in Amazon and finally shipping to my whereabouts. For the Icon Air I should have to wait a bit more as they've just out of the oven, I guess...

Would appreciate your comments on this..


----------



## d3myz

vstolpner said:


> Wait a second... I'm sure these were $65 when we first saw them? Not $260+!!!!


Holy Crap! I priced these out for the minimum order and it was $50,000 for 1000 last time i looked at them. I remember wanting to order a sample and it was $150 and it was WAY more expensive than the unit. Strange times, man.


----------



## bubsdaddy (Aug 28, 2019)

I saw this post over at Slickdeals for a QCY for $13:

https://slickdeals.net/f/13345006-t...lc8?p=130074640&comment=success#post130074640

The post says Tepoinn brand but when you see it on Amazon, it's a QCY.


----------



## gibletzor (Aug 28, 2019)

Saw this today and it made me laugh for some reason.  Only made to fit American and European ears!!


----------



## hifi80sman

JimmyR said:


> Let me bring this from @hifi80sman for a moment... If I don't recall wrong, you also own the Jbuds Executive Air? How'd you compare them? Is mic quality much superior on the Execs?
> 
> For some reason, I've good concept of this brand and wouldn't mind to get one. I saw the Executives just a couple of days ago listed in Amazon and finally shipping to my whereabouts. For the Icon Air I should have to wait a bit more as they've just out of the oven, I guess...
> 
> Would appreciate your comments on this..


I found the sound to be the same EXCEPT when toggling through the preset EQs, the Executive would lower the volume on all EQ settings other than Signature.  The Air Icon does not do that and all EQ settings have the same volume.  The calls were supposed to be better on the Executive, but callers didn’t seem to notice a difference.  The only thing that’s missing is ambient mode, so unless you want or need that, I’d recommend the Air Icon.


----------



## hifi80sman

gibletzor said:


> Saw this today and it made me laugh for some reason.  Only made to fit American and European ears!!


LOL!  At least you know where NOT to go for marketing advice!


----------



## chinmie

this also looks interesting, it has a more CIEM like eartips and also supports aptx. i wonder if it's already available on AE

 

https://m.alibaba.com/product/60839...B1y9wraDHuK1RkSndVq6xVwpXax.jpg_300x300xz.jpg


----------



## david8613

JimmyR said:


> Just lurking a moment on Amazon and came across these handsome buddies - https://www.amazon.com/Bluetooth-Ea...coding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=RTTQ6K44W8CXV0ZQDX2J on sale for only 35 US$
> 
> Seems to have been put out recently.
> 
> ...



You did very good here!!! Really good specs! I ordered them, anyone got them yet? You should get head fier of the month for this find!!! Nothing had me this interested since the anbes 359 and tranya t3, those have been so good for me. How is the bass on these?


----------



## actorlife (Aug 29, 2019)

Hooray. I just got a response from Ida. We can keep the Tranya B530. He says they are a gift. ✌️  Yippee. Rahaha. Edit 12:30am They just shipped the B530. Gulp.


----------



## Caipirina

chinmie said:


> this also looks interesting, it has a more CIEM like eartips and also supports aptx. i wonder if it's already available on AE
> 
> 
> 
> https://m.alibaba.com/product/60839...B1y9wraDHuK1RkSndVq6xVwpXax.jpg_300x300xz.jpg



They actually remind me of the stay-hear tips of Bose (i.e. Bose SSF) ... could really be hit / miss depending on ear shape


----------



## gibletzor

actorlife said:


> Hooray. I just got a response from Ida. We can keep the Tranya B530. He says they are a gift. ✌️  Yippee. Rahaha.


I kinda figured that would be the case.  Can't really force us to send them back when we purchased them and they refund us through a completely different payment system. And it's worth it to them to get some early review out on Amazon so the average consumer won't be as hesitant to purchase.

Also, thank you for recommending the Alterola IE600.  The only criticism I have of them so far is the lack of difference in eartip size.  The large ones are almost too big and they muffle the mids a tad.  The other 2 seem to be pretty much the same size around, one just inserting a bit deeper into the ear.  Neither of them gets enough seal so the bass goes kaput!  And I doubt there's anything else out there that fits them.  lol   I've been playing with EQing them tonight and they're definitely keepers.  I can literally feel them vibrate my outer ear without EQing the bass back just a hair, but somehow it doesn't drown out everything else.

The Honshoop W1s on the other hand are not my style.  The included eartips are garbage.  They sound good with some others that I have laying around, but not good enough to compete with these Alterolas or the Mpows. 

Looking forward to checking out these new Tranyas some of us are getting early.  Hopefully they're winners as well!


----------



## vstolpner (Aug 29, 2019)

Ok so this took me long enough, but I finally got around to posting my review of the Wavefun XPods3!
https://medium.com/@vstolpner/wavefun-xpods3-value-chi-fi-with-premium-internals-b2e87ca1b3de

Edit: just realised this makes 7 reviews... and brings me up to 5 TWE's I own... guess I know what I'm gifting for Xmas! LOL


----------



## Caipirina (Aug 29, 2019)

Power HBQ Pro



This is not really a good look on a brand new “sweat and water resistant” TWE ...

And I really enjoyed the performance on today’s run. I had expected it would jiggle out of place and the nice seal / sound would be gone, but no, for 7 miles it kept steady and supplied me with run appropriate beats while keeping a rock steady BT connection!

There was maybe a very slight drizzle, but less than my actual sweat. I put the buds in the box for recharge, 4h later I want to use again ... and the right side remains silent and only shows a blue, steady light!

And that’s when I saw the corrosion.

Long story short, it took me some trying and resetting and now they are fine again. But I was getting ready to yell at the poor sales guy in China. . Might still do if this comes back. Will surely add to my feedback.

Lesson learnt, don’t trust those water ratings blindly and wipe everything off before putting back in the charger.

Still kinda digging those, but that might be the 'new toy' effect ... soon other new toys will arrive


----------



## FYLegend

Without actually making a call, what's the best way to test call quality on a Samsung Android phone? I tried an app but it only does short snippets.

BE30 UFO sounded clear but voices sounded distant, Sabbat E12 sounded a bit clearer so I was surprised by the number of negative comments here about call quality. Firefly Pro seems to do poorly - it sounds worse than the ambient sound feed and is sensitive to noise and passing vehicles.


----------



## Caipirina

hifi80sman said:


> Sadly, pass on the CloudFox.  https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07V1CKNSB/
> 
> Doesn't sound bad, just not that great (SBC only).  However, the deal breakers were the finicky touch controls (was only able to pause/play) and spotty connection.  Phone was in my front right pocket and when I went to use touch controls, it broke the connection.  WOW, that's just bad.



If anyone is still interested in those ( after Hifi80's sweet words   ) and you can't access amazon US, they are now available on AliX 

I know I was excited when I saw them first, but bad connection is a deal breaker for sure ...


----------



## CardigdanWalk

Stupid question time:

I have the BT20 ... and I’ve just seen there is a BT20S ... when did this happen/ what’s the difference?

I do love my BT20 but my only complaint is that everyday when I arrive at a busy station, my connection keeps dropping in and out ... also happens with my KZ T1, which makes me think it could just be interference from everyone using Bluetooth headphones ... once in clear of the station things seem to get better.


----------



## Caipirina (Aug 29, 2019)

CardigdanWalk said:


> Stupid question time:
> 
> I have the BT20 ... and I’ve just seen there is a BT20S ... when did this happen/ what’s the difference?
> 
> I do love my BT20 but my only complaint is that everyday when I arrive at a busy station, my connection keeps dropping in and out ... also happens with my KZ T1, which makes me think it could just be interference from everyone using Bluetooth headphones ... once in clear of the station things seem to get better.



I think that happened in July    Here's a handy chart from AK Audio to see the diffs




Oh, and nano coating water proofing is new, though I am not sure how far I would trust that ... the point where IEM connects to BT dongle will always be open for water to seep in somehow ...


----------



## CardigdanWalk

Caipirina said:


> I think that happened in July    Here's a handy chart from AK Audio to see the diffs
> 
> 
> 
> Oh, and nano coating water proofing is new, though I am not sure how far I would trust that ... the point where IEM connects to BT dongle will always be open for water to seep in somehow ...




Interesting ... I wonder how much of this is marketing fluff as when the BT20 came out it said it supported AAC. 

From what I’ve read the switch from Realtek (RTL8763B apparently) does enable aptX support but since I’m using an iPhone I’m not sure if it’s worth the “upgrade” cost

Anyone have both, Does the switch from Realtek to Qualcomm mean better sound?


----------



## chinmie

CardigdanWalk said:


> Interesting ... I wonder how much of this is marketing fluff as when the BT20 came out it said it supported AAC.
> 
> From what I’ve read the switch from Realtek (RTL8763B apparently) does enable aptX support but since I’m using an iPhone I’m not sure if it’s worth the “upgrade” cost
> 
> Anyone have both, Does the switch from Realtek to Qualcomm mean better sound?



the most obvious difference in sound between them is that the newer BT20S has a more powerful amp. so if you have a DD or a not so sensitive IEM/earbuds, you might benefit from the new BT20S. if you have sensitive iems, i think the older one is a better pick because the noise floor would be lower.

battery and connection (the BT20S has a more stable connection) also a deciding factor,although i never ran out of battery of a day use with the older one, and the connection is also solid enough


----------



## Caipirina

Question for the Alterola ie600 owners here ... i found this lookalike on AliX 
But there is one detail on the buds that I have never seen in any product pictures of the Alterola ... maybe its hidden on 'the other side' ? 

 

still hoping to find the 'real' Alterola some day ... this lookalike never came up before on searches .. wonder why ...


----------



## gibletzor

Caipirina said:


> Question for the Alterola ie600 owners here ... i found this lookalike on AliX
> But there is one detail on the buds that I have never seen in any product pictures of the Alterola ... maybe its hidden on 'the other side' ?
> 
> 
> ...


Mine do not have that.


----------



## actorlife

Caipirina said:


> Question for the Alterola ie600 owners here ... i found this lookalike on AliX
> But there is one detail on the buds that I have never seen in any product pictures of the Alterola ... maybe its hidden on 'the other side' ?
> 
> 
> ...


Just make sure they are not these: 
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07GZG354G/ref=cm_sw_r_sms_apa_i_aa9zDbX8GTRDV
I bought these together with the Alterola to compare SQ and they were a Muddy mess and got sent back the very next day. Totally fake reviews.
Those $35 TWS aptx/8hr battery got me thinking about them all day and night almost bought them last night. Phew. I might have to leave this thread after my Tranya review for at least a month or two.


----------



## actorlife

gibletzor said:


> I kinda figured that would be the case.  Can't really force us to send them back when we purchased them and they refund us through a completely different payment system. And it's worth it to them to get some early review out on Amazon so the average consumer won't be as hesitant to purchase.
> 
> Also, thank you for recommending the Alterola IE600.  The only criticism I have of them so far is the lack of difference in eartip size.  The large ones are almost too big and they muffle the mids a tad.  The other 2 seem to be pretty much the same size around, one just inserting a bit deeper into the ear.  Neither of them gets enough seal so the bass goes kaput!  And I doubt there's anything else out there that fits them.  lol   I've been playing with EQing them tonight and they're definitely keepers.  I can literally feel them vibrate my outer ear without EQing the bass back just a hair, but somehow it doesn't drown out everything else.
> 
> ...


I saw tips sold separately there on amazon for the Aterola. I'll check and see if I can find them. I have no issues. Just if my ears get a little sweaty the tip stay in my ears, but not hard to take out, although a bit annoying. Maybe I'll get something sticky so they stay on. Man too bad about the Hopshoop I really like them and was hoping you did as well. You never got a chance to get the Anbes 359 huh? I bet you'd really like them. Kissral R18 is supposed to sound exactly the same.


----------



## gibletzor

actorlife said:


> I saw tips sold separately there on amazon for the Aterola. I'll check and see if I can find them. I have no issues. Just if my ears get a little sweaty the tip stay in my ears, but not hard to take out, although a bit annoying. Maybe I'll get something sticky so they stay on. Man too bad about the Hopshoop I really like them and was hoping you did as well. You never got a chance to get the Anbes 359 huh? I bet you'd really like them. Kissral R18 is supposed to sound exactly the same.


I have the Kissral on my list on Amazon to keep my eye out for sales.


----------



## Caipirina

actorlife said:


> Just make sure they are not these:
> https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07GZG354G/ref=cm_sw_r_sms_apa_i_aa9zDbX8GTRDV
> I bought these together with the Alterola to compare SQ and they were a Muddy mess and got sent back the very next day. Totally fake reviews.
> Those $35 TWS aptx/8hr battery got me thinking about them all day and night almost bought them last night. Phew. I might have to leave this thread after my Tranya review for at least a month or two.



Great compare ... I don't think they are the same, the amazon ones identify as X20, the AliX as S9 ... buuuut, since they have identical vent holes, I guess I better forget about those and wait for some day getting the real Alterola

And I totally hear ya, I thought I was safe by being back on the island ... but now that AliX is also sending me stuff here (in the previous years they would only send to verified by credit card address) and it seems to be even faster than to my summer residence ... I am in constant danger  ... Sales Week did not help either!


----------



## actorlife

gibletzor said:


> I have the Kissral on my list on Amazon to keep my eye out for sales.


If they sound anything like the Anbes boy are you in for a treat. Here are the tips: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07GZG354G/ref=cm_sw_r_sms_apa_i_aa9zDbX8GTRDV
Maybe check ebay if you can get similar ones.


----------



## Caipirina

actorlife said:


> If they sound anything like the Anbes boy are you in for a treat. Here are the tips: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07GZG354G/ref=cm_sw_r_sms_apa_i_aa9zDbX8GTRDV
> Maybe check ebay if you can get similar ones.


you copy & pasted the link for the muddy Alterola lookalikes


----------



## Caipirina

This one claims to have APTX & APTX HD ... and 10mm drivers ... but interestingly enough, the other 2 shops I see them at do not say anything like this ... 

They just caught my eye because they come in many pretty colors .. finally in ORANGE!   

and a 3$ off over 25$ discount does not hurt either ... 

too bad the orange finish looks kinda cheap ... and I really don't want to try stem-based TWE anymore ...  but I recall others were interested in anything AptX related.


----------



## prophette

Caipirina said:


> This one claims to have APTX & APTX HD ... and 10mm drivers ... but interestingly enough, the other 2 shops I see them at do not say anything like this ...
> 
> They just caught my eye because they come in many pretty colors .. finally in ORANGE!
> 
> ...


Unfortunately, the Qualcomm QCC3020 does not support AptX HD.  It supports only AptX.  QCC3034 does support AptX HD.
https://www.qualcomm.com/products/qcc3020


----------



## Caipirina

prophette said:


> Unfortunately, the Qualcomm QCC3020 does not support AptX HD.  It supports only AptX.  QCC3034 does support AptX HD.
> https://www.qualcomm.com/products/qcc3020



I know it felt fishy ... was one step away from googling the above ... great detective work!


----------



## gibletzor

Oohh  the new Tranya shipped for me and should be here Saturday now!  Previous shipping estimate said Sept 4th!


----------



## assassin10000

CardigdanWalk said:


> Stupid question time:
> 
> I have the BT20 ... and I’ve just seen there is a BT20S ... when did this happen/ what’s the difference?
> 
> I do love my BT20 but my only complaint is that everyday when I arrive at a busy station, my connection keeps dropping in and out ... also happens with my KZ T1, which makes me think it could just be interference from everyone using Bluetooth headphones ... once in clear of the station things seem to get better.



Came out mid june. Aptx support, longer battery life and some light water/sweatproofing of the circuit board. I recall one member here killed his original bt20 while running with sweat.

The connection is way stronger. Where I used to get cutting out when laying against a pillow or cupping my hand around my ear on the BT20, I have no such issues with the BT20S.

If you find you have to run a high volume on your BT20 & IEM of choice, you may not on the BT20S. It has a higher output/volume level. May help with harder to drive IEM's.




Caipirina said:


> I think that happened in July    Here's a handy chart from AK Audio to see the diffs
> 
> 
> 
> Oh, and nano coating water proofing is new, though I am not sure how far I would trust that ... the point where IEM connects to BT dongle will always be open for water to seep in somehow ...



Nano coating is internal on the circuit board afaik. The housing isn't waterproof.




CardigdanWalk said:


> Interesting ... I wonder how much of this is marketing fluff as when the BT20 came out it said it supported AAC.
> 
> From what I’ve read the switch from Realtek (RTL8763B apparently) does enable aptX support but since I’m using an iPhone I’m not sure if it’s worth the “upgrade” cost
> 
> Anyone have both, Does the switch from Realtek to Qualcomm mean better sound?



If you have a device that doesn't do AAC, yes it does. It did for me, I've been using an older Samsung Note 4 and it doesn't allow me to choose codecs like newer phones do.



chinmie said:


> the most obvious difference in sound between them is that the newer BT20S has a more powerful amp. so if you have a DD or a not so sensitive IEM/earbuds, you might benefit from the new BT20S. if you have sensitive iems, i think the older one is a better pick because the noise floor would be lower.
> 
> battery and connection (the BT20S has a more stable connection) also a deciding factor,although i never ran out of battery of a day use with the older one, and the connection is also solid enough



Agreed. More powerful, lasts longer and a better connection. Aptx support clinched it for me, close enough to wired for my use.


----------



## Gunslinger686

gibletzor said:


> Oohh  the new Tranya shipped for me and should be here Saturday now!  Previous shipping estimate said Sept 4th!



Now you need to send an email to let them know that they have shipped to receive the first half of your refund. Be sure and let us know how that goes. Assuming you did get in on the R&D program.  Still waiting for mine to ship .


----------



## vstolpner

gibletzor said:


> Oohh  the new Tranya shipped for me and should be here Saturday now!  Previous shipping estimate said Sept 4th!



Have to check mine... Still waiting too.... Hopefully soon!


----------



## d3myz

vstolpner said:


> Have to check mine... Still waiting too.... Hopefully soon!


Mine will be here tomorrow, I e-mailed ida, asked her to refund the first half of my pmt. And not that i'm this type of dude, but how the hell is amazon not going to lose $60 if you decide to return these after Tranya refunds you? Seems like an ill thought out beta program. Just saying, hope I didn't give any of you degenerates any ideas


----------



## vstolpner

d3myz said:


> Mine will be here tomorrow, I e-mailed ida, asked her to refund the first half of my pmt. And not that i'm this type of dude, but how the hell is amazon not going to lose $60 if you decide to return these after Tranya refunds you? Seems like an ill thought out beta program. Just saying, hope I didn't give any of you degenerates any ideas



If anyone does that it'll be Tranya losing money because Amazon will charge them for the refund. Plus I'm pretty sure they'll make life difficult for anyone who does that (or at least I hope they do).


----------



## hifi80sman

For those looking for a higher-end TWS, I've been very satisfied with the House of Marley Liberate Air, and surprisingly so.  I've never had any of their products before, most because I was like, meh, just consumer grade stuff, but I am quite taken with these.  Clarity is amazing.  Vocals are not recessed.  Bass is not overblown, but is still impactful with a nice "round" characteristic.  Mic works well for calls.  They look fantastic.  Added some eartips from the Sony MDR-XB50AP and I just love these things.


----------



## JimmyR

david8613 said:


> You did very good here!!! Really good specs! I ordered them, anyone got them yet? You should get head fier of the month for this find!!! Nothing had me this interested since the anbes 359 and tranya t3, those have been so good for me. How is the bass on these?



Really appreciate your praises, but still too soon for that. Spec-wise, they're true champs. Now we need to check out how these guys did with the tuning and driver for good SQ. 
Glad you grab them and looking forward for your impressions.


----------



## HiFlight

Living in the Android ecosystem, I decided to finally give the Galaxy Buds a try as they seemed to generally garner pretty positive reviews.  
I downloaded the app and as soon as the phones arrived, I gave them an out of the box test run.  Fit was absolutely perfect, probably the best of any of my TWE buds.  Pairing was instant with the app and they immediately updated to the latest firmware.  Sound was very much to my liking, well-balanced tonally and with several different SQ settings to choose from via the app.  So far, so good!  I am pretty stoked given the the overall performance (so far).

That is where my enjoyment of the Galaxy ended!   I found that none of the app settings were stored in the buds when used with a device without the accompanying app.  Volume at max was very low and tonally they sounded like a set of the throwaway buds included with cheap players!   This is in contrast to my Jabra 65t which can be used with or without its app and remembers the settings made when using the app.   

Given the fact that the Galaxy Buds seem to be a one-trick pony that can only be used successfully when paired with the app, they will soon be returned as I use my TWE buds as much with my DAPs as I do with my phone.


----------



## C_Lindbergh

hifi80sman said:


> For those looking for a higher-end TWS, I've been very satisfied with the House of Marley Liberate Air, and surprisingly so.  I've never had any of their products before, most because I was like, meh, just consumer grade stuff, but I am quite taken with these.  Clarity is amazing.  Vocals are not recessed.  Bass is not overblown, but is still impactful with a nice "round" characteristic.  Mic works well for calls.  They look fantastic.  Added some eartips from the Sony MDR-XB50AP and I just love these things.



Seems pretty cool, especially that the charging box is made out of wood! But no Ambient mode means no purchase from me, at least not for that price. Without an Ambient mode you'd have to take an earbud off every time you want to interact with someone, unlike wired earphones, with true wireless its a pain, there's no cord to simply take it around your neck.


----------



## llmgtab

C_Lindbergh said:


> Seems pretty cool, especially that the charging box is made out of wood! But no Ambient mode means no purchase from me, at least not for that price. Without an Ambient mode you'd have to take an earbud off every time you want to interact with someone, unlike wired earphones, with true wireless its a pain, there's no cord to simply take it around your neck.


Same here, the Liberate Air looks to be what I need to replace my Earin M2 except the Ambient mode. My battery life on the M2 has gone down to 2.5 hours and I really need something to replace them, but have not found the perfect pair yet.


----------



## hifi80sman

C_Lindbergh said:


> Seems pretty cool, especially that the charging box is made out of wood! But no Ambient mode means no purchase from me, at least not for that price. Without an Ambient mode you'd have to take an earbud off every time you want to interact with someone, unlike wired earphones, with true wireless its a pain, there's no cord to simply take it around your neck.


Yes, that is something to consider for those that want/need ambient.  For me, it's not make or break, but it is nice to have, lest you drop it while taking it out.  In cases I know where I may need ambient, I have other TWS' to wear for the occasion.


----------



## hifi80sman

For those interested in an all-arounder, Amazon has the Jabra Elite Active 65t in Copper/Black on sale for $114.  Not the King of sound, but still "solid".  Feature wise, good for $114.


----------



## FYLegend

hifi80sman said:


> Yes, that is something to consider for those that want/need ambient.  For me, it's not make or break, but it is nice to have, lest you drop it while taking it out.  In cases I know where I may need ambient, I have other TWS' to wear for the occasion.


Agreed, it's one reason I've kept Firefly Pro as my daily driver, but the sunlight-killing-mic-feed issue is extremely weird and annoying for outdoor use, as is the ambient volume increase after ending a call. I still have yet to get an update from Jabees, seemed like they were willing to send a replacement. 

I would have liked to see Wireless Charging as well. So far I only know Libratone Track Air+ ticks all boxes (Type C, wireless charging, AptX and ambient aware) but I can't find if they have AAC or not, TotallyDubbed implied they didn't (doesn't really matter to me, but in the event AptX and SBC performs poorly it would be nice to have it as well). Otherwise there's a list of options thar have either AptX or ambient aware.

What was the bad-sounding Wavefun Xpods 3 clone you had? The YTOM T1 is selling cheaper now than the Xpods but I don't want to end up with another dud.


----------



## hifi80sman

FYLegend said:


> Agreed, it's one reason I've kept Firefly Pro as my daily driver, but the sunlight-killing-mic-feed issue is extremely weird and annoying for outdoor use, as is the ambient volume increase after ending a call. I still have yet to get an update from Jabees, seemed like they were willing to send a replacement.
> 
> I would have liked to see Wireless Charging as well. So far I only know Libratone Track Air+ ticks all boxes (Type C, wireless charging, AptX and ambient aware) but I can't find if they have AAC or not, TotallyDubbed implied they didn't (doesn't really matter to me, but in the event AptX and SBC performs poorly it would be nice to have it as well). Otherwise there's a list of options thar have either AptX or ambient aware.
> 
> What was the bad-sounding Wavefun Xpods 3 clone you had? The YTOM T1 is selling cheaper now than the Xpods but I don't want to end up with another dud.


I had the MEGIVEZ.  MEGIVEZ back.  If you like the way music sounds in a tunnel, these are for you.


----------



## david8613

JimmyR said:


> Really appreciate your praises, but still too soon for that. Spec-wise, they're true champs. Now we need to check out how these guys did with the tuning and driver for good SQ.
> Glad you grab them and looking forward for your impressions.




Yes indeed, If these are at least a step up from the anbes 359 and tranya t3, I will be very happy. 

Besides the mpow t5 what else is really good out there?


----------



## vstolpner

david8613 said:


> Yes indeed, If these are at least a step up from the anbes 359 and tranya t3, I will be very happy.
> 
> Besides the mpow t5 what else is really good out there?



Have you tried any of the balanced armature versions? I really liked my mifo O5 Professional white I had it. Astrotec S60 is supposed to be really good too


----------



## TK33

hifi80sman said:


> For those interested in an all-arounder, Amazon has the Jabra Elite Active 65t in Copper/Black on sale for $114.  Not the King of sound, but still "solid".  Feature wise, good for $114.



Must have just missed it. I see it for $160  Not sure if I am relieved or sad...


----------



## d3myz

vstolpner said:


> If anyone does that it'll be Tranya losing money because Amazon will charge them for the refund. Plus I'm pretty sure they'll make life difficult for anyone who does that (or at least I hope they do).





david8613 said:


> Yes indeed, If these are at least a step up from the anbes 359 and tranya t3, I will be very happy.
> 
> Besides the mpow t5 what else is really good out there?


Honestly, i've had the T5 for about month and I love everything about them EXCEPT the damn chipset. they headphones drop my phone call connection for about 2 seconds every other call and when I press the button on my phone to ignore a phone call, it answers the call. DOH!. The mic is ok, but people complain I sound far away. Also, turning them off is stupid, I have to turn both off and if i don't close spotify or apple books it skips tracks when holding down the button to power off. The onboard assistant is incredibly loud and the beeps when turning the vol up/down or play/pause are really annoying. Last grip, the blinking led is terrible for listening when in bed etc. I have had nothing but praise for the Tranya T3, they have an excellent mic, everyone compliments me on how it sounds like I'm on my handset, range is awesome, no cut outs etc. They def. have different sound signatures, but the realtek in the Tranya wins in my mind.


----------



## hifi80sman

TK33 said:


> Must have just missed it. I see it for $160  Not sure if I am relieved or sad...


Yep, looks like it's back up to $160.  Seems to have been one of those non-lightening sale fluctuations, but I've never see it that low before (for the active version and NEW).  They're good for sub-$120 max, but no way i'm going $160.  Down to $120 just begins the conversation for me and I still didn't pull the trigger at $114.  Sound is the most important factor for me and they don't cut in there.  I posted it because I know others are looking for decent sound, but with full features.


----------



## wizll

posedown said:


> They are very safe. But I do not want to be seen like that.


 man, if people can tolerate having white q-tips sticking out of their ears, the mpow looks fine imo.


----------



## JimmyR

hifi80sman said:


> For those looking for a higher-end TWS, I've been very satisfied with the House of Marley Liberate Air, and surprisingly so.  I've never had any of their products before, most because I was like, meh, just consumer grade stuff, but I am quite taken with these.  Clarity is amazing.  Vocals are not recessed.  Bass is not overblown, but is still impactful with a nice "round" characteristic.  Mic works well for calls.  They look fantastic.  Added some eartips from the Sony MDR-XB50AP and I just love these things.



These really look awesome and super sleek,man!! But I’ve restraining myself of grabbing something above 100 bucks,especially now that the offer is  blossoming well below that prices and literally everyday new buddies pop up.

Ummm, Do the Marleys have true mono mode? With that I mean that you can take any bud back to the case, no matter which, and the other one keeps rocking and doesn’t need to be re-paired and stuff...


----------



## JimmyR

david8613 said:


> Yes indeed, If these are at least a step up from the anbes 359 and tranya t3, I will be very happy.
> 
> Besides the mpow t5 what else is really good out there?



Without spending a good deal of dough on the big boys:

I’m looking forward for some trusted review on the new Sabbat E12 Ultra to find out how they roll...should start to come soon..

The Edifier TWS5 was very tempting to me too, but the lack of onboard volume control is a showstopper for me (Damn, how can they skip that...I don’t get it, really) 

You can find both in the 60-70 bucks price range on AliX with coupons and so on... on Amazon price would be a bit higher


----------



## actorlife

gibletzor said:


> Oohh  the new Tranya shipped for me and should be here Saturday now!  Previous shipping estimate said Sept 4th!


Just checked mine should be here on Sunday. We will see. OK those 35 aptx and 8hr will be mine if still on sale at midnight(Saturday) tomm. Since I'm getting the Tranya I should treat myself, no? Right C? Ro noooooo.


----------



## gibletzor (Aug 29, 2019)

@actorlife


----------



## duyanh43

So I just blind bought an QCY T1C/QS1 based on suggestions of a website called scarbir and immediately fell in love with the TWS convenience, but this little thing still has more bass than my taste. I'm looking to upgrade to some of the better ones like KZ T1, MPOW T5, Sony WF-1000XM3 or Galaxy Buds, Senn MTW. Anyone here can suggest a TWS with no blooming bass  I've auditioned the HIFIMAN TWS600, but the overall sound signature was just weird and I couldn't care less about getting them.


----------



## actorlife

gibletzor said:


> @actorlife


But I mustn't. No job, but but but... Budget must not be broken. We will see. Rent before TWS. Darn.


----------



## chinmie

duyanh43 said:


> So I just blind bought an QCY T1C/QS1 based on suggestions of a website called scarbir and immediately fell in love with the TWS convenience, but this little thing still has more bass than my taste. I'm looking to upgrade to some of the better ones like KZ T1, MPOW T5, Sony WF-1000XM3 or Galaxy Buds, Senn MTW. Anyone here can suggest a TWS with no blooming bass  I've auditioned the HIFIMAN TWS600, but the overall sound signature was just weird and I couldn't care less about getting them.



my personal favorite : Nillkin Go doesn't have a blooming midbass, but still can provide low subbass when needed. the overall bass sound is also on the speedy and has faster decay, similar to typical BA drivers


----------



## HiFlight

chinmie said:


> my personal favorite : Nillkin Go doesn't have a blooming midbass, but still can provide low subbass when needed. the overall bass sound is also on the speedy and has faster decay, similar to typical BA drivers


+1 on the Go!


----------



## Steven Brittain

I just ordered the Tranyas I was still able to get in on the review deal. I should get them Saturday. Also thinking of Sony's due ANC but the marleys might work too.
I am looking for wireless iems for the bedroom. We sleep to music every night on calm radio. The issue is I go to sleep several hours after wife night owl she's a morning gal.
I have a headphone amp and dac with the Massdrop Senn Jubilee`s but they one are wired and on ear and two I should have gotten closed cans I hear to much of the other music in them.
So I want something wireless and in ear in case I do doze off its not horribly uncomfortable. Looks like maybe the Marley Liberty might fit the bill since there is no ambient noise feature.


----------



## vstolpner

duyanh43 said:


> So I just blind bought an QCY T1C/QS1 based on suggestions of a website called scarbir and immediately fell in love with the TWS convenience, but this little thing still has more bass than my taste. I'm looking to upgrade to some of the better ones like KZ T1, MPOW T5, Sony WF-1000XM3 or Galaxy Buds, Senn MTW. Anyone here can suggest a TWS with no blooming bass  I've auditioned the HIFIMAN TWS600, but the overall sound signature was just weird and I couldn't care less about getting them.



If you're ok with very little bass, then try the mifo O5 Professional. Balanced armature will give you amazing detail.


----------



## vstolpner

Steven Brittain said:


> I just ordered the Tranyas I was still able to get in on the review deal. I should get them Saturday. Also thinking of Sony's due ANC but the marleys might work too.
> I am looking for wireless iems for the bedroom. We sleep to music every night on calm radio. The issue is I go to sleep several hours after wife night owl she's a morning gal.
> I have a headphone amp and dac with the Massdrop Senn Jubilee`s but they one are wired and on ear and two I should have gotten closed cans I hear to much of the other music in them.
> So I want something wireless and in ear in case I do doze off its not horribly uncomfortable. Looks like maybe the Marley Liberty might fit the bill since there is no ambient noise feature.



See if you can find the Anbes 359 or Kissral R18 - they're very slim and won't bother you if you're sleeping. Or the mifo O5.


----------



## howdy

You know a lot of some here love there chi- fi stuff which is cool but and a big but everyone has got to try these Sony xm3 buds these puppies are end game for BT. These I can say already are my favorite. This statement has been a long time coming and a bit persuaded by a bit of Vodka but whatever. Try them out and tell me different.


----------



## Steven Brittain

vstolpner said:


> See if you can find the Anbes 359 or Kissral R18 - they're very slim and won't bother you if you're sleeping. Or the mifo O5.



Thank you I will try them out.


----------



## d3myz

Any Tool fans here? Just listening to the new album on my T5's, it sounds FANTASTIC!


----------



## Mlaihk

Anyone here tried the Libratone Track Air+ yet?


----------



## d3myz

I don't know if it's been mentioned, but I received a refund for half of my purchase for the new Tranya's! They'll be here tomorrow.


----------



## Steven Brittain

Good to hear. I will post when mine happens as well.


----------



## sanity8me (Aug 30, 2019)

vstolpner said:


> If you're ok with very little bass, then try the mifo O5 Professional. Balanced armature will give you amazing detail.



These seem very interesting. One reviewer on Amazon stated that it has an ambient sound passthrough mode. Can you confirm this? And if so, is it any good?

How does the sound quality compare to other TWS IEMs you've tried, especially the T5?

Also, what's the difference between the sport and professional versions? Hopefully just cosmetic...


----------



## Soreniglio

d3myz said:


> Any Tool fans here? Just listening to the new album on my T5's, it sounds FANTASTIC!


How's the album? I still have to listen to it!


----------



## FYLegend (Aug 30, 2019)

hifi80sman said:


> For those interested in an all-arounder, Amazon has the Jabra Elite Active 65t in Copper/Black on sale for $114.  Not the King of sound, but still "solid".  Feature wise, good for $114.


If you don't mind audio imbalance and microUSB... although for some reason I find the 65t's volume imbalance more bearable than some outright defective buds I've received. Not sure if it's because it evens out over time or it's just a more pleasant tuning than having something with more bass on one side.

My main gripe is the seal on the regular version is terrible and bass is barely heard when commuting. Some reviewers say the Active version is much better in this regard. Earfun Free eartips go great with my Jabras though (probably the only thing positive from my fiasco with them).

Speaking of Earfun, they have two more TWS on the horizon. One which is a stem-type design and another that is an "active" design with wing mounts. Personally I'm not a fan of either design and prefer a traditional negative-fit IEM look.

Astrotec has been hinting at an S85 and S90, the latter will have AptX! I was considering getting an S60 as I seem to have misplaced mine, but they keep me hanging.

I've also been following the SoundPeats TrueEngine2 but there has been a lot of doubt over the pricing (they claim 50% off for early backers) and the use of Kickstarter ahead of Amazon.

The Marleys were 150$CAD at Best Buy today (last day of the sale). I kept thinking about getting them but no wireless charging or ambient sound are somewhat dealbreakers.

At the same time I've been looking for a good Type C wireless charger that will work with both a QC3.0 and Samsung Adaptive Fast Charging power brick. For the longest time I thought the Galaxy Fast Charging stand wouldn't charge any TWS until I realized I was using a third-party QC3.0 plug, but at the same time, a third-party Qi charger struggles to work with the Samsung power brick.

_EDIT: Marleys are still 150$ at Best Buy Canada_

Shady stuff... Anbes Audiocart is gone from Aliexpress, while Anbes Official started offering ePacket for the 359, has anyone purchased from them recently?

For people with BE30 UFO "Air": have you been able to get high volume with "absolute volume "disabled? While it sounds loud normally, I have to disable this on my laptop for the sake of Jabees Firefly Pro, but now my UFO Air has very low volume, since there appears to be no actual way to turn up the internal volume.


----------



## vstolpner (Aug 30, 2019)

sanity8me said:


> These seem very interesting. One reviewer on Amazon stated that it has an ambient sound passthrough mode. Can you confirm this? And if so, is it any good?
> 
> How does the sound quality compare to other TWS IEMs you've tried, especially the T5?
> 
> Also, what's the difference between the sport and professional versions? Hopefully just cosmetic...



The mifo O5 Professional use a balanced armature driver which produces extremely clean and crisp highs and mids with somewhat recessed bass (it's there, just doesn't have the impact it does on dynamic drivers). It's the kind of driver where you'll keep catching yourself thinking "I don't remember that instrument playing at that part of the track!" but for music with a lot of bass you'll also be a little disappointed.

I really do love the sound out of the mifo O5 Professional, and I believe everyone should have a pair of BA-only earphones to appreciate the music they listen to differently, so the above is meant as a compliment.

They do have a sort of audio passthrough, but really they might as well not. They don't advertise it for a reason.

The difference between the professional and the standard/sport is the driver - the standard version uses a dynamic driver (so the above comments don't apply), and the professional uses a balanced armature driver. Cosmetically they're identical.

Edit: check out my review of the mifo O5 Professional in my signature


----------



## sanity8me

vstolpner said:


> They do have a sort of audio passthrough, but really they might as well not. They don't advertise it for a reason.



Really? That bad? This is a priority to me since I want to use it for outdoor biking.


----------



## Caipirina

duyanh43 said:


> So I just blind bought an QCY T1C/QS1 based on suggestions of a website called scarbir ...



@Bartig 's reviews are ruining people's wallets  ... I fell into the rabbit hole when he was still publishing on medium.com  

I can second the notion of the Mifo O5 as not too bassy. Lovely! 

Oh man, I miss Hanoi, I used to live there ... get a burger at Tracey's for me (on Xuan Dieu, Tay Ho  )


----------



## vstolpner

sanity8me said:


> Really? That bad? This is a priority to me since I want to use it for outdoor biking.



Then you'll have to look elsewhere. I'd suggest AirPods style TWS that will naturally not block the sound


----------



## D3soLaT3 (Aug 30, 2019)

Received the Lenovo HT10 after a 21 day wait from Gearvita. 



The are my first set of wireless buds as I usually use my BGVP DM6, iSine 10, or Koss PortaPros when I do portable listening.



I do not like to be a HypeBeast but these sound fantastic even compared to more expensive wired gear. All my listening impressions are based off AptX on my Activo CT10. (Sorry for the poor image quality. It was the only way to get proof I was on AptX)



As someone else pointed out, these are micro usb not usb type-c. Still an awesome set at $42.



These have really changed my opinion on TWS buds and I will be looking for a set that supports full AptX HD. I listened to these for 6 hours at work yesterday and was unable to kill the battery. I was amazed there was little to no sound degradation and I believe most audiophiles will find these more than adequate regarding sound quality. Will post full impressions later.


----------



## d3myz

Soreniglio said:


> How's the album? I still have to listen to it!


It's pretty awesome, I have to give it another listen or two today, but it's really good.


----------



## hifi80sman

JimmyR said:


> These really look awesome and super sleek,man!! But I’ve restraining myself of grabbing something above 100 bucks,especially now that the offer is  blossoming well below that prices and literally everyday new buddies pop up.
> 
> Ummm, Do the Marleys have true mono mode? With that I mean that you can take any bud back to the case, no matter which, and the other one keeps rocking and doesn’t need to be re-paired and stuff...


No, it doesn't have true mono mode.  One is the master, so that one still works fine when you put the other in the case (there is no pause, etc.).  According to the literature, you can set the master to either the R or L (whichever one you initially pair with your device).


----------



## d3myz

D3soLaT3 said:


> Received the Lenovo HT10 after a 21 day wait from Gearvita.
> The are my first set of wireless buds as I usually use my BGVP DM6, iSine 10, or Koss PortaPros when I do portable listening.
> 
> I do not like to be a HypeBeast but these sound fantastic even compared to more expensive wired gear. All my listening impressions are based off AptX on my Activo CT10. (Sorry for the poor image quality. It was the only way to get proof I was on AptX)
> ...


Thanks for the impressions, they look almost identical to the Tranya T3. i'm looking forward to your review.


----------



## Richsvt

Listened to the T3 last night. Initial impressions are good, deep bass but a little overlapping into the mids region. Treble was recessed and soundstage was a little narrow. Might need some break-in (if you believe in that). I will try it out again later tonight. Through the Shanling M2X, was very nice. Weird with no cables. Pairing was easy and fast.


----------



## charleski (Aug 30, 2019)

D3soLaT3 said:


> These have really changed my opinion on TWS buds and I will be looking for a set that supports full AptX HD.


I've been doing some research, and it seems like you'll be looking in vain. Even the pricey Sennheiser only advertises standard AptX.
I suspect the problem is power consumption. I'm pretty sure that's why the Sony MX3s don't have LDAC, for instance. A Soc like the QCC5121 has AptX HD, and advertises the same 6mA consumption seen on the AptX-only QCC3020, but it's telling that the 6mA figure is rated for SBC only. Other SoCs that feature AptX HD (like the QCC5126) need 10mA, which is probably more power than a TWS can really supply without cutting the usable time on one charge (or sticking on a big battery).

[EDIT]Apparently the Libratone Track Air+ runs on the QCC5121, but on their site they only claim standard AptX in the specs.


----------



## d3myz (Aug 30, 2019)

As a long time user of JVC Spiral Dots, I recently took the plunge and paid 11.99 for two pair of Spinfit 360's. As far as fit is concerned for all my TWS' they feel fantastic. In my comparisons I noticed the spinfits made the sound a bit louder and gave the T5's more punchy mid bass, more balanced  mids and a pretty noticeable reduction in clarity. I didn't notice quite as much with my 359's, but the bass seemed a bit more smashed together the clarity was also effected. cymbals and attack on snare drums and high hats were just not as realistic and live sounding, panning guitars and instruments seems less dramatic, Guitars had more attack, but less crunch as well. I also noticed that the imaging was more central and the sound stage wasn't quite as wide. I tested these using the new tool album as reference, the recording and engineering is incredible. It's kind of a bummer because I really like the way these fit and feel. However, I will say that I was listening to a playlist yesterday and after about 5 songs it dawned on me that certain songs i'd heard several times before sounded better to me while using the 360 tips. This was partly to never hearing them in AptX but also the T5's do lack Low mid bass and the 360's do a great job boosting this. It really makes the mids on the sound different to my ears. So If you want pure clarity and an unimpeded tip that lets you experience exactly how the TWS's was designed then the JVC Spinfit is for you, but myself like many of you, like a lot of different sound signatures, you may want to grab some 360's if you haven't already. BTW, You can also get 3 pairs of Spinfits for $10 from PENON.


----------



## d3myz

charleski said:


> I've been doing some research, and it seems like you'll be looking in vain. Even the pricey Sennheiser only advertises standard AptX.
> I suspect the problem is power consumption. I'm pretty sure that's why the Sony MX3s don't have LDAC, for instance. A Soc like the QCC5121 has AptX HD, and advertises the same 6mA consumption seen on the AptX-only QCC3020, but it's telling that the 6mA figure is rated for SBC only. Other SoCs that feature AptX HD (like the QCC5126) need 10mA, which is probably more power than a TWS can really supply without cutting the usable time on one charge (or sticking on a big battery).
> 
> [EDIT]Apparently the Libratone Track Air+ runs on the QCC5121, but on their site they only claim standard AptX in the specs.


This is why i come here! I appreciate the technical insight!


----------



## mikp

this should be launching soon, qcc51xx series. But im guessing no apt-x hd here either.


----------



## Highfiver

Been purchasing many different true wireless earbuds since lurking on this thread. Although it seems it’s not one of the favs on here, I’ve settled on the Mifo 05 Pros as my favorite daily driver. And even though they’re not “true wireless”, my other favorites are the new RHA T20 wireless (neckband style). 

Anyways, just finished sending back to Amazon most of the earbuds I didn’t keep. However, I missed the return date on sealed/unopened sets of a Sabbat E12 and Kissrall R18 (bought two of each set and kept one of both for occasional use). Anyone interested in buying these off of me for a reasonable price?


----------



## hifi80sman (Aug 30, 2019)

mikp said:


> this should be launching soon, qcc51xx series. But im guessing no apt-x hd here either.



If they are anything like the regular version, it'll be a pass for me.  The regular version does not have volume *OR *track control.  At $149 (regular version), that's just not acceptable to me.  Also, it doesn't seem to be a hardware limitation, rather a feature that's just not activated.


----------



## hifi80sman

Highfiver said:


> Been purchasing many different true wireless earbuds since lurking on this thread. Although it seems it’s not one of the favs on here, I’ve settled on the Mifo 05 Pros as my favorite daily driver. And even though they’re not “true wireless”, my other favorites are the new RHA T20 wireless (neckband style).
> 
> Anyways, just finished sending back to Amazon most of the earbuds I didn’t keep. However, I missed the return date on sealed/unopened sets of a Sabbat E12 and Kissrall R18 (bought two of each set and kept one of both for occasional use). Anyone interested in buying these off of me for a reasonable price?


Wow, don't get banned from Amazon!


----------



## Highfiver (Aug 30, 2019)

hifi80sman said:


> Wow, don't get banned from Amazon!


I kept a lot of them for occasional use (Tranya T3, the E12’s, R18’s, Mifo Sports, AirPods, Jabra Elite Active, Jabra 65 elite, etc). I spend around 1K a month on Amazon (including groceries, household supplies, pet stuff, etc) and only return around 5% of my purchases. I think I should be fine.


----------



## vstolpner

Highfiver said:


> Been purchasing many different true wireless earbuds since lurking on this thread. Although it seems it’s not one of the favs on here, I’ve settled on the Mifo 05 Pros as my favorite daily driver. And even though they’re not “true wireless”, my other favorites are the new RHA T20 wireless (neckband style).
> 
> Anyways, just finished sending back to Amazon most of the earbuds I didn’t keep. However, I missed the return date on sealed/unopened sets of a Sabbat E12 and Kissrall R18 (bought two of each set and kept one of both for occasional use). Anyone interested in buying these off of me for a reasonable price?



The mifo O5 Professional are one of my favorites. I think they don't get too much attention here because they're of their price: quite a bit more than the Anbes 359, Tranya T3, Mpow T5, etc; and for some people they might as well go with the Sennheiser's or the new Sony's


----------



## Highfiver

vstolpner said:


> The mifo O5 Professional are one of my favorites. I think they don't get too much attention here because they're of their price: quite a bit more than the Anbes 359, Tranya T3, Mpow T5, etc; and for some people they might as well go with the Sennheiser's or the new Sony's


I just really love the clarity of the BA. The bass might not be all that but I love hearing new details I’ve never heard before. It’s my first BA set as all my others are some type of DD design. Any other good BA type true wireless earbuds (or IEMs) you’d recommend (aside from the Earin M2)?


----------



## vstolpner

Highfiver said:


> I just really love the clarity of the BA. The bass might not be all that but I love hearing new details I’ve never heard before. It’s my first BA set as all my others are some type of DD design. Any other good BA type true wireless earbuds (or IEMs) you’d recommend (aside from the Earin M2)?



Heard good things about Astrotec S60 which uses a Knowles BA and should be even better, but haven't tried them personally. There's also a new Shanling set that uses Knowles BA's, but haven't tried those either. The Shanling look like the mifo O5, which I really like.

Otherwise I'm using UE SuperFi IEMs with TRN BT20 for my Knowles BA fix.


----------



## Highfiver

vstolpner said:


> Heard good things about Astrotec S60 which uses a Knowles BA and should be even better, but haven't tried them personally. There's also a new Shanling set that uses Knowles BA's, but haven't tried those either. The Shanling look like the mifo O5, which I really like.
> 
> Otherwise I'm using UE SuperFi IEMs with TRN BT20 for my Knowles BA fix.


Thanks for the recommendations. Going to look them up now. Is there a model name or number for the Shanling set you mentioned?


----------



## vstolpner

Highfiver said:


> Thanks for the recommendations. Going to look them up now. Is there a model name or number for the Shanling set you mentioned?



I don't remember offhand, but search this thread and you'll find them.


----------



## jasonb

One complaint I've had with my Galaxy Buds and Pixel 3a has been the volume steps being too large and half the steps not actually doing anything. I've played around with the "disable absolute volume" toggle and have never noticed it actually doing anything. But selecting to disable absolute volume and then rebooting the phone the setting seems to have actually done something awesome now. All 25 steps actually do something now and I finally have control of the volume in much finer steps. Wish I had done this sooner.


----------



## hifi80sman

Highfiver said:


> I kept a lot of them for occasional use (Tranya T3, the E12’s, R18’s, Mifo Sports, AirPods, Jabra Elite Active, Jabra 65 elite, etc). I spend around 1K a month on Amazon (including groceries, household supplies, pet stuff, etc) and only return around 5% of my purchases. I think I should be fine.


*Highfive*


----------



## d3myz

Highfiver said:


> Been purchasing many different true wireless earbuds since lurking on this thread. Although it seems it’s not one of the favs on here, I’ve settled on the Mifo 05 Pros as my favorite daily driver. And even though they’re not “true wireless”, my other favorites are the new RHA T20 wireless (neckband style).
> 
> Anyways, just finished sending back to Amazon most of the earbuds I didn’t keep. However, I missed the return date on sealed/unopened sets of a Sabbat E12 and Kissrall R18 (bought two of each set and kept one of both for occasional use). Anyone interested in buying these off of me for a reasonable price?


I've done the same thing. I think i've returned 8 so far in the last 2 months. no ban. @hifi80sman  is just a worrywart.


----------



## d3myz

hifi80sman said:


> If they are anything like the regular version, it'll be a pass for me.  The regular version does not have volume *OR *track control.  At $149 (regular version), that's just not acceptable to me.  Also, it doesn't seem to be a hardware limitation, rather a feature that's just not activated.


Couldn't agree more, I just came to this point where if it doesn't' have volume control and track control it doesn't' matter how good they are, i'm passing.


----------



## Gunslinger686

d3myz said:


> I don't know if it's been mentioned, but I received a refund for half of my purchase for the new Tranya's! They'll be here tomorrow.





Weird ,my card has not been charged, have not shipped I ordered on the 27th not sure what’s going on?


----------



## hifi80sman (Aug 30, 2019)

d3myz said:


> Couldn't agree more, I just came to this point where if it doesn't' have volume control and track control it doesn't' matter how good they are, i'm passing.


It's just amazing that they would release something like that, meant to compete with the mid-to-top tier TWS', yet omit simple controls that even $20 Chi-Fi units have.  While I get the whole push for using the virtual assistants, in application, very few people I'm around ever use it.  Especially in a loud environment (gym), I'm not going to be "that guy" saying "volume up", "skip track", etc.  The people at my gym would literally be like "what a douche".


----------



## d3myz

I couldn't agree more. I didn't even know that I could use voice assistant to adjust volume, until a little while ago. I use alexa at home, that's fine, but on the bus, subway at the gym? LOL. No thanks. I guess I would be more willing to make the compromise if I used an apple or other smart watch and could control it from my wrist, but every time I've tried to use a watch in the past, it's bad news for the watch face.


----------



## TK33

hifi80sman said:


> It's just amazing that they would release something like that, meant to compete with the mid-to-top tier TWS', yet omit simple controls that even $20 Chi-Fi units have.  While I get the whole push for using the virtual assistants, in application, very few people I'm around ever use it.  Especially in a loud environment (gym), I'm not going to be "that guy" saying "volume up", "skip track", etc.  The people at my gym would literally be like "what a douche".



Or in the quiet car on the train in the mornings. Can barely sneeze without someone glaring at you


----------



## D3soLaT3

charleski said:


> I've been doing some research, and it seems like you'll be looking in vain. Even the pricey Sennheiser only advertises standard AptX.
> I suspect the problem is power consumption. I'm pretty sure that's why the Sony MX3s don't have LDAC, for instance. A Soc like the QCC5121 has AptX HD, and advertises the same 6mA consumption seen on the AptX-only QCC3020, but it's telling that the 6mA figure is rated for SBC only. Other SoCs that feature AptX HD (like the QCC5126) need 10mA, which is probably more power than a TWS can really supply without cutting the usable time on one charge (or sticking on a big battery).
> 
> [EDIT]Apparently the Libratone Track Air+ runs on the QCC5121, but on their site they only claim standard AptX in the specs.


I was looking at the TaoTronics TT-BH07S on Amazon. It doesn't list it on the Amazon US page but on Amazon.jp and other sites it lists them as having the Qualcomm QCC3034 which does support AptX HD. At $35 plus Amazon's return policy I think they are worth a shot.


----------



## JimmyR

hifi80sman said:


> No, it doesn't have true mono mode.  One is the master, so that one still works fine when you put the other in the case (there is no pause, etc.).  According to the literature, you can set the master to either the R or L (whichever one you initially pair with your device).



Thanks for answering,man!
However, I feel strange that those prompt you to pair the 2nd bud after having paired the master. I assumed that true mono’s actually do that to have both paired and so keep on w/o interruptions on whatever stays in your ears after returning the other to the case. I really don’t get it ‍♂️


----------



## FYLegend

hifi80sman said:


> No, it doesn't have true mono mode.  One is the master, so that one still works fine when you put the other in the case (there is no pause, etc.).  According to the literature, you can set the master to either the R or L (whichever one you initially pair with your device).


Have you noticed any hissing or buzzing from the right earbud? I see one negative review on the Marley site saying this is a widespread issue in Korea and that exchanged units still have the same problem.

They are still on sale for 150$ at Best Buy Canada which seems to be a good deal. Wondering how these compare to Lypertek Tevi and MPOW T5.


----------



## vstolpner

So I'm pretty sure that someone here has mentioned the Human Headphone before, but I'm surprised they're not getting a bit more traction. Seems like something truly unique in this space, and now they're getting some reviews on YouTube too.



At $260 they're too rich for my blood, but I'm excited to see Chi-Fi come out with something similar for $40 :-D


----------



## charleski

D3soLaT3 said:


> I was looking at the TaoTronics TT-BH07S on Amazon. It doesn't list it on the Amazon US page but on Amazon.jp and other sites it lists them as having the Qualcomm QCC3034 which does support AptX HD. At $35 plus Amazon's return policy I think they are worth a shot.


That's a good catch, especially as the 3034 has the same (slightly vague) <6mA power rating as the rest of the OCC302/3x range. Unfortunately those earphones aren't TWS, though they are fairly small. I suspect they've got a reasonably large battery in the volume control pill.


----------



## hifi80sman (Aug 30, 2019)

FYLegend said:


> Have you noticed any hissing or buzzing from the right earbud? I see one negative review on the Marley site saying this is a widespread issue in Korea and that exchanged units still have the same problem.
> 
> They are still on sale for 150$ at Best Buy Canada which seems to be a good deal. Wondering how these compare to Lypertek Tevi and MPOW T5.


There is a very slight white noise from the *both *earbuds, but very slight.  If you never mentioned it, I wouldn't have noticed.  Additionally, it's a smooth, even, faint noise (no electronic buzzing), so even though I notice it now, it still doesn't bother me.  I honestly can't imagine anyone listening to music and getting distracted, unless you have the ears of a baby and are super anal.  If they are isolating it to purely the right side, it sounds like a defective unit or perhaps something with the specific connection or master/slave relationship.  Or, if you're into conspiracy theories, another company attempting to poison the well.

I like them better than my MPOW T5.


----------



## d3myz

D3soLaT3 said:


> I was looking at the TaoTronics TT-BH07S on Amazon. It doesn't list it on the Amazon US page but on Amazon.jp and other sites it lists them as having the Qualcomm QCC3034 which does support AptX HD. At $35 plus Amazon's return policy I think they are worth a shot.


I've tried 3 different TaoTronics and returned all 3. It was last year, but i remember how they just couldn't compete with the soundpeats I ended up with. Then i found the $25 syllable D900p's they sound better to me, less bass for sure and no aptx, but wires suck.  Is there a reason you don't want TWS'?


----------



## d3myz

hifi80sman said:


> There is a very slight white noise from the *both *earbuds, but very slight.  If you never mentioned it, I wouldn't have noticed.  Additionally, it's a smooth, even, faint noise (no electronic buzzing), so even though I notice it now, it still doesn't bother me.  I honestly can't imagine anyone listening to music and getting distracted, unless you have the ears of a baby and are super anal.  If they are isolating it to purely the right side, it sounds like a defective unit or perhaps something with the specific connection or master/slave relationship.  Or, if you're into conspiracy theories, another company attempting to poison the well.
> 
> I like them better than my MPOW T5.


You better! they are nearly 4x the cost of the T5!


----------



## webvan

rtings have just published reviews of the : 
- Sony WF-1000xm3 : https://www.rtings.com/headphones/reviews/sony/wf-1000xm3-truly-wireless
They're not too impressed overall and apparently had fitting problems. They only find the ANC "passable" and find that even with ANC on they don't isolate as well as the 65Ts...
- Jaybird Vista : https://www.rtings.com/headphones/reviews/jaybird/vista-truly-wireless
Even less impressed !


----------



## FYLegend

My review of the Jabees Firefly Pro:
https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/jabees-firefly-pro.23873/reviews#review-22564


----------



## clerkpalmer

webvan said:


> rtings have just published reviews of the :
> - Sony WF-1000xm3 : https://www.rtings.com/headphones/reviews/sony/wf-1000xm3-truly-wireless
> They're not too impressed overall and apparently had fitting problems. They only find the ANC "passable" and find that even with ANC on they don't isolate as well as the 65Ts...
> - Jaybird Vista : https://www.rtings.com/headphones/reviews/jaybird/vista-truly-wireless
> Even less impressed !



They are overrated. Fancy appearance and nice build quality. Everything else is average


----------



## actorlife (Aug 30, 2019)

Did you guys get that amazon $35 TWS with aptx/8hr battery yet? I'm inching to hear thoughts. I know at least five of you guys ordered them.


----------



## d3myz

Mine will be here monday.


----------



## willyk

Just checked my Tranya B530 order.
I bought them on the 27th as part of the beta, and they will be delivered next Wednesday.
If I were to buy them right now, they'd be here within 48 hours.
How does that happen?


----------



## hifi80sman

webvan said:


> rtings have just published reviews of the :
> - Sony WF-1000xm3 : https://www.rtings.com/headphones/reviews/sony/wf-1000xm3-truly-wireless
> They're not too impressed overall and apparently had fitting problems. They only find the ANC "passable" and find that even with ANC on they don't isolate as well as the 65Ts...
> - Jaybird Vista : https://www.rtings.com/headphones/reviews/jaybird/vista-truly-wireless
> Even less impressed !


Jaybird is OK, but it seems like they're just playing the same game over & over and haven't really pushed much further.  Although good, their new releases aren't really much better than the prior versions.  I mean, I know there's a marketing photo with another guy running on some random trail in the woods or on a mountain, but it's like almost the same stuff.

It's like Jean Claude Van-Damme movies...they're all the same.


----------



## d3myz

Well, i ordered mine on Tuesday and they were supposed to be here today, but i just got a message from amazon that they are delayed until tomorrow or Monday. Maybe they were having supply issues?


----------



## actorlife

d3myz said:


> Mine will be here monday.


Dang that seems like a lifetime. I should order them at midnight and just return if they suck, but but but my budget. Dang no liquor or green stuff in the house. At least that would be an excuse to myself. Rahahahaha


----------



## chinmie

vstolpner said:


> So I'm pretty sure that someone here has mentioned the Human Headphone before, but I'm surprised they're not getting a bit more traction. Seems like something truly unique in this space, and now they're getting some reviews on YouTube too.
> 
> 
> 
> At $260 they're too rich for my blood, but I'm excited to see Chi-Fi come out with something similar for $40 :-D




it looks weird to me, maybe because it is still new, like the first time airpods came out
this review is not very favorable


----------



## hifi80sman (Aug 30, 2019)

chinmie said:


> it looks weird to me, maybe because it is still new, like the first time airpods came out
> this review is not very favorable



Not very favorable is an understatement!  LOL!

"_They sound awful_."

"_If you've been bombarded with Human Headphone Ads...just ignore them_."

OUCH.


----------



## david8613 (Aug 30, 2019)

actorlife said:


> Did you guys get that amazon $35 TWS with aptx/8hr battery yet? I'm inching to hear thoughts. I know at least five of you guys ordered them.




If your talking about the ofusho, mine just came in. Not a good start, fitment sucks with included tips, but that can be remedied. But I am having pairing issues, only right ear pairs but has no lights, left has lights but does not pair. I tried doing the reset procedure i found on YouTube and it does not work see below. My phone show it auto connecting through aptx very cool, buds are very nice but on the big side, bigger than tranya t3, case is very big, the biggest I ever used but also nice quality materials I guess it holds alot of charge, also you can charge other devices. I have alot of experience with lots of tw and this is the first time I'm having this much trouble pairing, I think I have to do a hard reset its different than a simple reset like in the video shows below, but I dont know how to do it. I had to do a hard reset on my anbes 359 once when they were acting up so bad. I hope I can get the pairing issue fixed and get the right tips for fitment I am very anxious to hear aptx in action.


----------



## LordToneeus

david8613 said:


> If your talking about the ofusho, mine just came in. Not a good start, fitment sucks with included tips, but that can be remedied. But I am having pairing issues, only right ear pairs but has no lights, left has lights but does not pair. I tried doing the reset procedure i found on YouTube and it does not work see below. buds are very nice but in the big side, case is big but also nice holds alot of charge, also charge other devices.




I just got mine this afternoon, and I had zero problems with fit or function.  Regarding fit, it’s almost as if they are magnetically attracted to my ears: they went right in, and with the little fins they aren’t budging. I couldn’t be more pleased with how secure they feel. 

With regard to connecting, I put them in the case, took them right back out, and went to the Bluetooth settings on my iPhone X. Voila, there they were. 

Sound is meaty, bassy - sorta remind me of what I once loved about the Jaybird X2’s. I am thoroughly satisfied with these. 

Hey everyone, long time lurker here. I started with Jabra Elite 65t when they first came out, then picked up - thanks to you guys - QCY T1C, Astrotec S80, Mpow T5, and finally these beauties.  Yep, it’s an addiction.


----------



## david8613

LordToneeus said:


> I just got mine this afternoon, and I had zero problems with fit or function.  Regarding fit, it’s almost as if they are magnetically attracted to my ears: they went right in, and with the little fins they aren’t budging. I couldn’t be more pleased with how secure they feel.
> 
> With regard to connecting, I put them in the case, took them right back out, and went to the Bluetooth settings on my iPhone X. Voila, there they were.
> 
> ...




That's great news!!! I'm glad to hear they have meaty bass, I like thick bass. Let them run over night so they burn in, they probably will sound even nicer after. I hope I can get these pair up. The fit remind me of the jabra elites i had, fit was horrible with stock tips, changed them out to some others I had and I was good to go. I'll keep playing with it, if someone else got them please chime in.


----------



## duyanh43

Anyone have QCY T1C on iPhone with sync problems? I have perfectly fine synchronization when using Spotify or playing FLAC from my Hiby Music or casual YouTube videos. But I have delay when I watch live YouTube videos or clips on VLC. And sometimes VLC videos got no sound at all and I have to repeat play/pause buttons for sometimes before I can hear the audio, are there any video player app that kinda fix this problem.


----------



## actorlife

david8613 said:


> If your talking about the ofusho, mine just came in. Not a good start, fitment sucks with included tips, but that can be remedied. But I am having pairing issues, only right ear pairs but has no lights, left has lights but does not pair. I tried doing the reset procedure i found on YouTube and it does not work see below. My phone show it auto connecting through aptx very cool, buds are very nice but on the big side, bigger than tranya t3, case is very big, the biggest I ever used but also nice quality materials I guess it holds alot of charge, also you can charge other devices. I have alot of experience with lots of tw and this is the first time I'm having this much trouble pairing, I think I have to do a hard reset its different than a simple reset like in the video shows below, but I dont know how to do it. I had to do a hard reset on my anbes 359 once when they were acting up so bad. I hope I can get the pairing issue fixed and get the right tips for fitment I am very anxious to hear aptx in action.



Darn you might have to exchange them. I hope they sound as good or better than the Anbes with a beautiful highs, large soundstage and more SQ enhancement with aptx.


----------



## actorlife

LordToneeus said:


> I just got mine this afternoon, and I had zero problems with fit or function.  Regarding fit, it’s almost as if they are magnetically attracted to my ears: they went right in, and with the little fins they aren’t budging. I couldn’t be more pleased with how secure they feel.
> 
> With regard to connecting, I put them in the case, took them right back out, and went to the Bluetooth settings on my iPhone X. Voila, there they were.
> 
> ...



Awesome thanks. Now I'm gonna have to have these if SQ is to my liking. Not an addiction just a hobby.  Highs crispy? large soundstage? and do you hear SQ enhancement with aptx? Compared to the T5 highs and bass? Thanks man I appreciate it.


----------



## chinmie

hifi80sman said:


> Not very favorable is an understatement!  LOL!
> 
> "_They sound awful_."
> 
> ...



and he's still willing to review the features for almost 10 minutes even after he puts his "summary" early in the video. now that's dedication


----------



## FYLegend

hifi80sman said:


> There is a very slight white noise from the *both *earbuds, but very slight.  If you never mentioned it, I wouldn't have noticed.  Additionally, it's a smooth, even, faint noise (no electronic buzzing), so even though I notice it now, it still doesn't bother me.  I honestly can't imagine anyone listening to music and getting distracted, unless you have the ears of a baby and are super anal.  If they are isolating it to purely the right side, it sounds like a defective unit or perhaps something with the specific connection or master/slave relationship.  Or, if you're into conspiracy theories, another company attempting to poison the well.
> 
> I like them better than my MPOW T5.


Just noticed they don't have volume control. I'm wondering if you were to "disable absolute volume" if it would decrease in volume. It happens on the Astrotec S60, Earfun Free and BE30 Air, where you are unable to internally adjust volume yourself.


----------



## albau

actorlife said:


> Darn you might have to exchange them. I hope they sound as good or better than the Anbes with a beautiful highs, large soundstage and more SQ enhancement with aptx.


You guys seem to ascribe to AptX some magic powers even compared to AAC. It as though bits just by themselves jump out of circuits and move the air into angelic sounds. Those drivers, careful sound shaping and tuning and acoustic paths are so low-tech and last century and really have little to do with SQ .


----------



## tlau1125

duyanh43 said:


> Anyone have QCY T1C on iPhone with sync problems? I have perfectly fine synchronization when using Spotify or playing FLAC from my Hiby Music or casual YouTube videos. But I have delay when I watch live YouTube videos or clips on VLC. And sometimes VLC videos got no sound at all and I have to repeat play/pause buttons for sometimes before I can hear the audio, are there any video player app that kinda fix this problem.


I notice delay with YouTube videos in general.  I have no experience with VLC and therefore cannot comment.


----------



## Levanter

webvan said:


> rtings have just published reviews of the :
> - Sony WF-1000xm3 : https://www.rtings.com/headphones/reviews/sony/wf-1000xm3-truly-wireless
> They're not too impressed overall and apparently had fitting problems. They only find the ANC "passable" and find that even with ANC on they don't isolate as well as the 65Ts...
> - Jaybird Vista : https://www.rtings.com/headphones/reviews/jaybird/vista-truly-wireless
> Even less impressed !



I wouldn’t pay much attention to rtings. They are good with TVs but not so much with headphone/IEM reviews.


----------



## bronco1015

actorlife said:


> Did you guys get that amazon $35 TWS with aptx/8hr battery yet? I'm inching to hear thoughts. I know at least five of you guys ordered them.


Mine will arrive sunday, of course while i'm gone...They weren't supposed to be here till thursday. Hope my Tranya B530s ship sooner than the date currently listed, currently says i should expect them September 10th-12th.


----------



## tomscy2000

I'm a bit bummed out that the NuraLoop won't ship until the end of December. I'm guessing this is a parts delay, but who knows. I just wish they would actually reveal more about the product itself   on a blog or something.


----------



## Soreniglio

My QCY T3 are satisfying me, but I noticed I sometimes have to put them deeper in my ear canals to get the most out of the music.

Besides, bass is decent, mids are certainly there, highs are good.

Lately I've been listening to a lot of Apparat and Moderat (Electronic music), and these headphones are...okayish to listen to that type of music, sometimes the bass seems to be a bit messy with the different beats, as if they were mixed up, and I don't like it much, but it's fine, I don't really wanna change earphones again.


----------



## charleski

webvan said:


> rtings have just published reviews of the :
> - Sony WF-1000xm3 : https://www.rtings.com/headphones/reviews/sony/wf-1000xm3-truly-wireless
> They're not too impressed overall and apparently had fitting problems. They only find the ANC "passable" and find that even with ANC on they don't isolate as well as the 65Ts...


The measurements Rtings produces are always very interesting, but you have to take their conclusions with a pinch of salt. In this case they show a _massive_ spike in THD at 800Hz, going up to 10%. Their raw frequency response shows an anomalous valley at the same frequency. A huge isolated spike like this suggests that something was rattling around and causing a resonance. They should have persisted in trying to get a good fit because their results may have been affected by problems with their measurement setup.


----------



## hifi80sman

FYLegend said:


> Just noticed they don't have volume control. I'm wondering if you were to "disable absolute volume" if it would decrease in volume. It happens on the Astrotec S60, Earfun Free and BE30 Air, where you are unable to internally adjust volume yourself.


I’m actually running them mostly from my iPhone over AAC.  When running them from my s8, I did not disable absolute volume.  I’ll give it a shot and see what happens.


----------



## ARISTISIMON

d3myz said:


> Any Tool fans here? Just listening to the new album on my T5's, it sounds FANTASTIC!



I can't stop listening it with my Cowin KY02!!! The wait was sooooo looong.


----------



## webvan

charleski said:


> The measurements Rtings produces are always very interesting, but you have to take their conclusions with a pinch of salt. In this case they show a _massive_ spike in THD at 800Hz, going up to 10%. Their raw frequency response shows an anomalous valley at the same frequency. A huge isolated spike like this suggests that something was rattling around and causing a resonance. They should have persisted in trying to get a good fit because their results may have been affected by problems with their measurement setup.



Yes I've noticed some inconsistencies in their testing as well, probably due to the fit achieved with their "dummy". They find the Cambridge Melomania 1 to be very isolating for instance (see https://www.rtings.com/headphones/tools/table/4187) while feedback here indicates they aren't that good in that area.


----------



## howdy

I just read about the Rtings and would throw out the whole review based on the major fact they did not get a good seal. I myself, could not get a good seal with the provided tips which is not unusual. I'm using the Spinfits and got a good seal great bass and the ANC works great for a IEM. You can not compare a full size headphone with ANC to an IEM with ANC.


----------



## actorlife

albau said:


> You guys seem to ascribe to AptX some magic powers even compared to AAC. It as though bits just by themselves jump out of circuits and move the air into angelic sounds. Those drivers, careful sound shaping and tuning and acoustic paths are so low-tech and last century and really have little to do with SQ .


Reason is because I have no AAC products, so for me it would be good to have. Although I have no complaints with the SBC implemented in my TWS at all. Believe me I know there is no magic as I have the Muddy Syllables with Aptx.


----------



## actorlife (Aug 31, 2019)

david8613 said:


> That's great news!!! I'm glad to hear they have meaty bass, I like thick bass. Let them run over night so they burn in, they probably will sound even nicer after. I hope I can get these pair up. The fit remind me of the jabra elites i had, fit was horrible with stock tips, changed them out to some others I had and I was good to go. I'll keep playing with it, if someone else got them please chime in.


Ordered the OFUSHO F16 last night. After reading some amazon reviews most said crispy highs and good bass. Have to wait till Sept 9. Hopefully it will ship sooner and be here this week. I hope these are as good as those $80 Tevis TWS I was wanting with the same features. Be my first purchase in two months. I'm so psyched.  BigZ12 you gonna get these?


----------



## D3soLaT3

d3myz said:


> I've tried 3 different TaoTronics and returned all 3. It was last year, but i remember how they just couldn't compete with the soundpeats I ended up with. Then i found the $25 syllable D900p's they sound better to me, less bass for sure and no aptx, but wires suck.  Is there a reason you don't want TWS'?


It's not that I don't want TWS, I was paying more attention to the codec and to battery life. So no TWS means that it plays in mono? According to Qualcomm's page the QCC3034 supports "TrueWireless Stereo Function". Seems like a gross oversight by the manufacture to not implement something that is built into the chipset. Or, it's there and just not advertised as TWS.


----------



## Tommy C

Anyone has tried the new JBL Flow? Battery life looks promising.


----------



## DigDub

Lypertek tevi. Balanced sound. No blinking light when in use.


----------



## hifi80sman

actorlife said:


> Reason is because I have no AAC products, so for me it would be good to have. Although I have no complaints with the SBC implemented in my TWS at all. Believe me I know there is no magic as I have the Muddy Syllables with Aptx.


Out of curiosity, what do you connect your TWS' to?


----------



## hifi80sman

Tommy C said:


> Anyone has tried the new JBL Flow? Battery life looks promising.


It's looks like they're only SBC.  If that's the case, for $149, that's 100% weaksauce.


----------



## hifi80sman

FYLegend said:


> Just noticed they don't have volume control. I'm wondering if you were to "disable absolute volume" if it would decrease in volume. It happens on the Astrotec S60, Earfun Free and BE30 Air, where you are unable to internally adjust volume yourself.


I just turned it on and off several times when playing music and it _*didn't *_change the volume level.  I'm using a Galaxy s8.


----------



## clerkpalmer

willyk said:


> Just checked my Tranya B530 order.
> I bought them on the 27th as part of the beta, and they will be delivered next Wednesday.
> If I were to buy them right now, they'd be here within 48 hours.
> How does that happen?


Mine arrived yesterday. Still testing them.  Does anyone know if they support aptx or AAC? Not much information on the website.


----------



## actorlife

hifi80sman said:


> Out of curiosity, what do you connect your TWS' to?


Cayin N3(aptx)/My android phone/Amazon stick/Xiaomi Mi Box/Android tablets.


----------



## actorlife (Aug 31, 2019)

clerkpalmer said:


> Mine arrived yesterday. Still testing them.  Does anyone know if they support aptx or AAC? Not much information on the website.


What do you think so far? No aptx or AAC that I know of. Six reviews don't mention it. I asked the seller in the questions area. Will let everyone know.


----------



## hifi80sman

clerkpalmer said:


> Mine arrived yesterday. Still testing them.  Does anyone know if they support aptx or AAC? Not much information on the website.


I test with an Android device and check in Developer Options.  Do you have a Mac or an Android device?


----------



## clerkpalmer

hifi80sman said:


> I test with an Android device and check in Developer Options.  Do you have a Mac or an Android device?


Yeah was using iphone but I can switch to my note.


----------



## chompchomps

DigDub said:


> Lypertek tevi. Balanced sound. No blinking light when in use.



hows the sound on these compared to the jabra 65t’s? Any chance of telling us how the mic quality is like? And fit wise do they stick out? Been considering either the Jabras or these


----------



## clerkpalmer

clerkpalmer said:


> Yeah was using iphone but I can switch to my note.


AAC and SBC only


----------



## clerkpalmer

Advanced is teasing a new M5 tw headset. Looks to be more premium than the existing one.  LDAC pretty please...


----------



## actorlife

clerkpalmer said:


> AAC and SBC only


Is the treble crisp on them B530 or rolled off?


----------



## clerkpalmer

actorlife said:


> Is the treble crisp on them B530 or rolled off?


Still evaluating but my immediate response subject to revision is its rolled off


----------



## DigDub

chompchomps said:


> hows the sound on these compared to the jabra 65t’s? Any chance of telling us how the mic quality is like? And fit wise do they stick out? Been considering either the Jabras or these



I have not tried the Jabra before. It has a very high resolution sound, mids and highs sounds very realistic. Definitely not for bass heads as the there's no rumbling bass, the bass is "polite". Soundstage is huge, spacious left-right, and good sense of front space. It uses the mpow t5 design, right down to the charging case, but the charging case uses usb-c instead of the mpow's micro USB.


----------



## albau

hifi80sman said:


> I just turned it on and off several times when playing music and it _*didn't *_change the volume level.  I'm using a Galaxy s8.


I think you need to reboot the phone for it to take effect.


----------



## actorlife (Aug 31, 2019)

DigDub said:


> I have not tried the Jabra before. It has a very high resolution sound, mids and highs sounds very realistic. Definitely not for bass heads as the there's no rumbling bass, the bass is "polite". Soundstage is huge, spacious left-right, and good sense of front space. It uses the mpow t5 design, right down to the charging case, but the charging case uses usb-c instead of the mpow's micro USB.


Been wanting them Tevis for a long time. I hope the $35 pair I'm getting is close to that SQ. If they go on sale for $45 or less in the US I might pick them up. That 10hr battery, aptx and SQ is an easy buy.


----------



## david8613

I'm still having problems pairing my note 8 with ofusho tw, only one ear bud connects. Anyone else having this issue?


----------



## LordToneeus (Aug 31, 2019)

Can’t comment yet on Apt-x for the Ofusho’s, but I do have some disconcerting news.


I’d never seen one quite like this, so I went ahead and rattled off an email. Finally got an answer this morning. Here’s the text verbatim from the response:

Congratulations, you get the product for free.
Just share your shopping experience on Amazon product page （full stars）. And send me a screenshot （see the attached sample), then we will refund to your PayPal account. OK?
Feel free to contact us if you have any questions.

I’m really happy with this purchase, but I just can’t get behind this shady nonsense.


----------



## LordToneeus

LordToneeus said:


> Can’t comment yet on Apt-x for the Ofusho’s, but I do have some disconcerting news.
> 
> 
> I’d never seen one quite like this, so I went ahead and rattled off an email. Finally got an answer this morning. Here’s the text verbatim from the response:
> ...



Sorry, I can’t get the pic to save. My Ofusho’s came with a red card that says “Congratulations, you get this product for free! Please contact this email.”


----------



## gibletzor

LordToneeus said:


> Can’t comment yet on Apt-x for the Ofusho’s, but I do have some disconcerting news.
> 
> 
> I’d never seen one quite like this, so I went ahead and rattled off an email. Finally got an answer this morning. Here’s the text verbatim from the response:
> ...


Wow...  Buying off good reviews instead of helping fix the problem.  Classy!


----------



## actorlife

gibletzor said:


> Wow...  Buying off good reviews instead of helping fix the problem.  Classy!


I'll be honest if I don't like it. Having rolloff treble is not cup of tea, so could be a 3 or 4 depending on how easy it handles. These are bass head type tws and most young consumers love this. If you read most reviews that's mostly what is said.


----------



## gibletzor

actorlife said:


> I'll be honest if I don't like it. Having rolloff treble is not cup of tea, so could be a 3 or 4 depending on how easy it handles. These are bass head type tws and most young consumers love this. If you read most reviews that's mostly what is said.


Oh no, I was referring to the reply @LordToneeus got from Ofusha about his problem.  "We'll refund it all of you give it a good review!"


----------



## actorlife (Aug 31, 2019)

gibletzor said:


> Oh no, I was referring to the reply @LordToneeus got from Ofusha about his problem.  "We'll refund it all of you give it a good review!"


Ah I see. From all the hype so far they seem great. If faulty then try another pair. Free is cool especially if you're not working.  Seems like every company is doing this now. Crazy.


----------



## gibletzor

So I went back and tried my Galaxy Buds with the stock eartips after the last couple firmware update, just out of curiosity.  The sound has definitely improved.  I still greatly prefer them with my Tennmak eartips, but I found it interesting how much the tuning had improved.


----------



## JimmyR

Richsvt said:


> Listened to the T3 last night. Initial impressions are good, deep bass but a little overlapping into the mids region. Treble was recessed and soundstage was a little narrow. Might need some break-in (if you believe in that). I will try it out again later tonight. Through the Shanling M2X, was very nice. Weird with no cables. Pairing was easy and fast.



They should open to some extent after some time of listening.
I recall that when I inbox them they sound darker than they did after a couple of days.

Post back after some hours of listening and tell us if something changes


----------



## JimmyR

david8613 said:


> I'm still having problems pairing my note 8 with ofusho tw, only one ear bud connects. Anyone else having this issue?



Perhaps a dummy question, but have you tried to pair them to other BT device?

Anyway, if the problem persists, write the vendor back to get a replacement and tell them you’re gonna give them 1 star if they cannot fix your problem.
Seeing how important are the full stars reviews to them, you probably can get a working replacement and a full refund


----------



## david8613

JimmyR said:


> They should open to some extent after some time of listening.
> I recall that when I inbox them they sound darker than they did after a couple of days.
> 
> Post back after some hours of listening and tell us if something changes




Yes these t3 need alot of burn in, they will change and sound much better trust me I love mine. Remember these get very loud, but loud is not always good. After a good burn in, at normal or lower levels they sound incredibly good, bass and sound quality approaches sennheiser mtw. I sold my sennheiser and dont miss them at all with the tranya t3. 

Yeah gonna have to return the ofusho, unless I find a way to hard reset.


----------



## BigZ12

DigDub said:


> I have not tried the Jabra before. It has a very high resolution sound, mids and highs sounds very realistic. Definitely not for bass heads as the there's no rumbling bass, the bass is "polite". Soundstage is huge, spacious left-right, and good sense of front space. It uses the mpow t5 design, right down to the charging case, but the charging case uses usb-c instead of the mpow's micro USB.


 Good description of the sound, but regarding the bass, if you get a good fit and seal, there's plenty of bass. No, maybe not the rumbling type, but deep and punchy enough for making an exciting listen.
Compared it just now to the QCY T2C, and there's marginally less bass overall. But my God how much more detailed, clear and crisp the Tevis sound, without any sign of sibilance as well! 

I commented on the BT range and stability some time ago. I found out why I had a little problem. My ear canals fit all in-ear buds very good. Almost too good, as they go deep inside. That was a little problematic with the Tevis and the BT connection, so I switched to the large sized included foam tips. Now it sticks marginally out more, but that was enough to secure a better connection.
What tips do you use?

And about the Mpow design, as I've posted before, Lypertek made their own tooling and tuned the sound by themselves to meet their requirements. So it's not just the usb-c and fabric coated charging box that's the difference I guess...


----------



## Gunslinger686

Tranya B530 shipped and received the first half of the reimbursement . Should get here tomorrow.


----------



## webvan

howdy said:


> I just read about the Rtings and would throw out the whole review based on the major fact they did not get a good seal. I myself, could not get a good seal with the provided tips which is not unusual. I'm using the Spinfits and got a good seal great bass and the ANC works great for a IEM. You can not compare a full size headphone with ANC to an IEM with ANC.



Mine are arriving on Tuesday and I have some Spinfits on hand so I'll make sure to try them. I'm still curious to see how much impact ANC can have when you already have a good seal. The fact that there are mics in the "shell" of the IEM means that more sound will pass through than with "solid" IEMs like the Etymotic ER4. The QC20s for instance do not provide any kind of seal but the ANC kicks in to kill a lot of background noise. I'm surprised rtings did not get similar results with the WF-1000xm3 even with a poor seal.


----------



## gibletzor (Aug 31, 2019)

Gunslinger686 said:


> Tranya B530 shipped and received the first half of the reimbursement . Should get here tomorrow.


I have my B530s in hand.  Won't get a chance to give them an initial test until tonight.  Hard to keep an eye on chitlens without being able to hear all they're getting into!

Also, if you're in the US, don't forget it's a holiday weekend so if they're scheduled to be delivered Sunday or Monday you probably won't get them until Tuesday.


----------



## david8613

david8613 said:


> Yes these t3 need alot of burn in, they will change and sound much better trust me I love mine. Remember these get very loud, but loud is not always good. After a good burn in, at normal or lower levels they sound incredibly good, bass and sound quality approaches sennheiser mtw. I sold my sennheiser and dont miss them at all with the tranya t3.
> 
> Yeah gonna have to return the ofusho, unless I find a way to hard reset.




I haven't tried to pair with something else gonna try that now but right side pairs but left does not but left lights up right does not weird. I contacted seller I'll see what happens but very disappointed at this point.


----------



## actorlife

gibletzor said:


> I have my B530s in hand.  Won't get a chance to give them an initial test until tonight.  Hard to keep an eye on chitlens without being able to hear all they're getting into!
> 
> Also, if you're in the US, don't forget it's a holiday weekend so if they're scheduled to be delivered Sunday or Monday you probably won't get them until Tuesday.


They better be here tomorrow or else. If they say Sunday it's usually true even with hurricane holiday hahaha.


----------



## jasonb (Aug 31, 2019)

gibletzor said:


> So I went back and tried my Galaxy Buds with the stock eartips after the last couple firmware update, just out of curiosity.  The sound has definitely improved.  I still greatly prefer them with my Tennmak eartips, but I found it interesting how much the tuning had improved.



Yea, I like them a lot. I find myself grabbing them often, even at home where my HD650 and WH-1000XM2's are. They sound great and the convenience is just awesome.

What do these different tips do?


----------



## gibletzor

jasonb said:


> Yea, I like them a lot. I find myself grabbing them often, even at home where my HD650 and WH-1000XM2's are. They sound great and the convenience is just awesome.
> 
> What do these different tips do?


They give me a better seal and increase the bass.  They're more comfortable in my ears as well.


----------



## jasonb

gibletzor said:


> They give me a better seal and increase the bass.  They're more comfortable in my ears as well.



Oh, I don't want more bass. They have enough for me.


----------



## bronco1015

So, woke up this morning to an email from Amazon, saying my B530s had shipped, and would arrive tomorrow. my experience has been that even on 3 day weekends, if Amazon says something will show up on Sunday, it usually still shows up on Sunday, not Tuesday like i'd expect on a Holiday weekend. If that holds true, i'll have 2 new sets of iems when i get home. Pretty crazy that even last night the Tranya's still showed as not even shipped yet, with the expected delivery date of sept 10-12.


----------



## actorlife

bronco1015 said:


> So, woke up this morning to an email from Amazon, saying my B530s had shipped, and would arrive tomorrow. my experience has been that even on 3 day weekends, if Amazon says something will show up on Sunday, it usually still shows up on Sunday, not Tuesday like i'd expect on a Holiday weekend. If that holds true, i'll have 2 new sets of iems when i get home. Pretty crazy that even last night the Tranya's still showed as not even shipped yet, with the expected delivery date of sept 10-12.


Great. How are your priceless Anbes 359 treating you?


----------



## bronco1015

Awesome of course, they're the only TWS i brought with me on my mini vacation. How about yours?


----------



## actorlife

bronco1015 said:


> Awesome of course, they're the only TWS i brought with me on my mini vacation. How about yours?


They are great no problems. I tend to rotate all five TWS and heard them about a week ago. Still my all time favorite TWS for music/movies. I hope they get something new out since the 359 are not available anymore for more than a month.


----------



## clerkpalmer

clerkpalmer said:


> Still evaluating but my immediate response subject to revision is its rolled off


Just had a good hour with these.  Treble is rolled a bit but it's not a big deal. I wouldn't call then sparkly or anything but the highs are fine but lack crispness and detail. These are tuned with a lot of low end boost. There is some bass bleed and it's a but boomy but they are fun sounding.  They sound pretty good for gym and exercise.  I really like the fit. Stayed put with medium stock tips. The mpow is more balanced. Probably a prefernce thing. They are close in terms of sq. I like them both better than the anbes. Another solid chifi option that makes the  brand name stuff in the 100 to 150 price range seem overpriced by comparison.


----------



## d3myz

DigDub said:


> Lypertek tevi. Balanced sound. No blinking light when in use.


OOOOOOHHH, I WANT!!!


----------



## david8613

I tried with another device with ofusho f16, did not work. Very unhappy. Ofusho contacted me and video I used already to reset did not work. Let's see what happens.


----------



## d3myz

D3soLaT3 said:


> It's not that I don't want TWS, I was paying more attention to the codec and to battery life. So no TWS means that it plays in mono? According to Qualcomm's page the QCC3034 supports "TrueWireless Stereo Function". Seems like a gross oversight by the manufacture to not implement something that is built into the chipset. Or, it's there and just not advertised as TWS.


What i mean by TWS was True Wireless Stereo aka True Wireless headphones, ya know the subject of this thread? LOL.  I'm sure those headphones play in stereo.


----------



## d3myz (Aug 31, 2019)

Just got my B530's they are really comfy. I have really noticable hissing in mine. UGH. treble is thin and a bit tinny and there's a LOT of it. bass is good, not T3, but balanced. mids are recessed. will keep listening and report back. I'm trying out the master hifi on Tidal via iphone xs max. I compared spotify and tidal with my mac using aptx on my T5's and Tidal actually sounded a touch cleaner and less compressed.

Quick edit, with the spinfit 360 tips, the treble is a bit more bearable. man, they are super comfy and the controls are excellent, the touch area is perfect, not to wide, so you don't it when inserting the earpieces. If they only sounded better.. sigh..


----------



## D3soLaT3

d3myz said:


> What i mean by TWS was True Wireless Stereo aka True Wireless headphones, ya know the subject of this thread? LOL.  I'm sure those headphones play in stereo.


I was as confused as you are. Why would I not want TWS? Your question threw me for a loop and I interpreted it as function instead of form factor. I won't bring up non TWS from now on to avoid further confusion.


----------



## d3myz

Anyone else have the volume CRANKED on the B530s and they are just a little louder than the QCY T1's?


----------



## gibletzor (Aug 31, 2019)

First impressions of the new Tranya B530 are very good!  Bass is nice and strong, but not overpowering.  A touch heavier than the Mpow T5, and just as punchy.  Not as ear rattling as the Alterola IE600 can get, but stronger than the Galaxy Buds.  Highs and mids are just a hair less crisp than T5 in overall quality, but still very clear.  This is with about 15 minutes of listening so far.  I'll let them burn in some in the coming days to see if they change any like people say the T3s do.
Fit is very comfortable with stock ear tips.  I have a few others I want to try out with it later too.  Feels very similar to my Galaxy Buds in weight and how they sit in my ear.
The case is nice.  It has the same group of 4 LEDs on the front that the Mpow T5 has for showing the status of the case battery.  The top of the case is translucent so you can see the LED light on the earbuds themselves to see the charging status.
On first impressions, these are keepers.  $60 might be a bit steep when you can get the T5 for $45 without a sale, especially without a defining feature like Qi charging or ambient mode.


----------



## Gunslinger686

Gibletzor pm you ph# let’s check out the call quality


----------



## TK33

Tommy C said:


> Anyone has tried the new JBL Flow? Battery life looks promising.



I posted about them a few weeks back.  I bought it for the IPX7, battery life and ambient aware to use for cycling/workout but the ambient aware is not great compared to the MTWs which I also bought a few weeks ago and I quickly realized ambient noise would not be practical with wind noise anyway.

Soundwise, I think they are clear and balanced.  This is my first JBL product but the reviews thus far seem to indicate it is a typical JBL sound signature (not really my cup of tea for critical listening but fine for workouts).  V shaped, good bass and treble, mids sound thin to me but I am used to more mid-centric sound with less bass.  I kept them because of battery life and IPX7 to use for rainy days, workouts and a backup to my MTW.  Battery life is fantastic and I have not had enough time in a day to really test it but others report 8+ hours on a single charge.  

I also kept them bc I got them for pretty cheap at a Harman store (had a 35% off coupon) but at $150, I think they are overpriced with no app, no aptX, no volume control, no USB C, and mediocre ambient aware mode.  Probably better options out there if you dont need the IPX7/ambient mode. Also, if you put the right earbud back in the case, it will disconnect.  However, I did discover that you could take the right one out and just keep it out of the case and just use the left bud if the right one is close by, which is nice and works fine given the great battery life (I do this occasionally at work at my desk) when I want a change of pace from my Shure SE425s that I keep in the office.


----------



## Steven Brittain

Gunslinger686 said:


> Tranya B530 shipped and received the first half of the reimbursement . Should get here tomorrow.


Got mine today but had a crazy day no testing yet. Got half refund yesterday. I am excited to try these out. Any Bluetooth adapter recommendations that I can plug into my musical paradise tube amp these will connect too? I have one of those generic push button adapters with headphone jack but can't get them to pair to it.


----------



## DigDub

BigZ12 said:


> Good description of the sound, but regarding the bass, if you get a good fit and seal, there's plenty of bass. No, maybe not the rumbling type, but deep and punchy enough for making an exciting listen.
> Compared it just now to the QCY T2C, and there's marginally less bass overall. But my God how much more detailed, clear and crisp the Tevis sound, without any sign of sibilance as well!
> 
> I commented on the BT range and stability some time ago. I found out why I had a little problem. My ear canals fit all in-ear buds very good. Almost too good, as they go deep inside. That was a little problematic with the Tevis and the BT connection, so I switched to the large sized included foam tips. Now it sticks marginally out more, but that was enough to secure a better connection.
> ...


I'm using the largest tips that came with my xiaomi wired earphones, I like them with tws buds that are of this design, it creates a good seal and gives good bass.

As far as I can tell, probably the top half of the shell and the button is their own design, the bottom half is the same as mpow and the case is the same except the USB-C port. The driver tuning is definitely different between the tevi, t5 and aviot te-d01g which also uses the same bud design platform. Some pics below for comparison. I can charge the buds in the cases interchangably with no issues.


----------



## TK33

d3myz said:


> As a long time user of JVC Spiral Dots, I recently took the plunge and paid 11.99 for two pair of Spinfit 360's. As far as fit is concerned for all my TWS' they feel fantastic. In my comparisons I noticed the spinfits made the sound a bit louder and gave the T5's more punchy mid bass, more balanced  mids and a pretty noticeable reduction in clarity. I didn't notice quite as much with my 359's, but the bass seemed a bit more smashed together the clarity was also effected. cymbals and attack on snare drums and high hats were just not as realistic and live sounding, panning guitars and instruments seems less dramatic, Guitars had more attack, but less crunch as well. I also noticed that the imaging was more central and the sound stage wasn't quite as wide. I tested these using the new tool album as reference, the recording and engineering is incredible. It's kind of a bummer because I really like the way these fit and feel. However, I will say that I was listening to a playlist yesterday and after about 5 songs it dawned on me that certain songs i'd heard several times before sounded better to me while using the 360 tips. This was partly to never hearing them in AptX but also the T5's do lack Low mid bass and the 360's do a great job boosting this. It really makes the mids on the sound different to my ears. So If you want pure clarity and an unimpeded tip that lets you experience exactly how the TWS's was designed then the JVC Spinfit is for you, but myself like many of you, like a lot of different sound signatures, you may want to grab some 360's if you haven't already. BTW, You can also get 3 pairs of Spinfits for $10 from PENON.



Interesting.  I had the exact opposite experience with the 360s. I lost all bass on my JBLs and Senns but agree they were super comfortable.  The 360s, however, went straight into the trash as I felt they made everything too bright and reduced the bass too much.  Based on your experience, I think it may have been a fit issue for me as they are shorter to allow them to fit in TWS cases and narrower than the stock tips I have.  I bought the Spinfit CP100z afterwards and am using them on the MTWs and they are fantastic.  They are longer than the 360s which seems to help with SQ and seal for me. Size M fits in the case for the MTWs. Everyone's ears are shaped differently so this just shows that you really won't know what works for you until you try yourself...


----------



## chinmie

DigDub said:


> I'm using the largest tips that came with my xiaomi wired earphones, I like them with tws buds that are of this design, it creates a good seal and gives good bass.
> 
> As far as I can tell, probably the top half of the shell and the button is their own design, the bottom half is the same as mpow and the case is the same except the USB-C port. The driver tuning is definitely different between the tevi, t5 and aviot te-d01g which also uses the same bud design platform. Some pics below for comparison. I can charge the buds in the cases interchangably with no issues.



nice! how do they compare in sound preference?


----------



## DigDub

chinmie said:


> nice! how do they compare in sound preference?


The tevi sounds neutral with mids and mid highs a tad elevated. The bass only comes in when absolutely called for. I would probably say it caters more to the audiophile crowd.


----------



## chompchomps

clerkpalmer said:


> Advanced is teasing a new M5 tw headset. Looks to be more premium than the existing one.  LDAC pretty please...



If you check the thread earlier, you would see people posting a link from alibaba that resembles the M5 pretty closely.. a rebranded OEM? or re-tuned oem?


----------



## chompchomps

DigDub said:


> I have not tried the Jabra before. It has a very high resolution sound, mids and highs sounds very realistic. Definitely not for bass heads as the there's no rumbling bass, the bass is "polite". Soundstage is huge, spacious left-right, and good sense of front space. It uses the mpow t5 design, right down to the charging case, but the charging case uses usb-c instead of the mpow's micro USB.


cool! I have thought about the t5's too since its been highly raved.. but not letting GAS get the better of me


----------



## chinmie

DigDub said:


> The tevi sounds neutral with mids and mid highs a tad elevated. The bass only comes in when absolutely called for. I would probably say it caters more to the audiophile crowd.



other than different sound signature (I'd reckon the T5 is more bassy and warm?) , would you say that they're on the same level of sound quality, or different?


----------



## DigDub

chinmie said:


> other than different sound signature (I'd reckon the T5 is more bassy and warm?) , would you say that they're on the same level of sound quality, or different?


The t5 is warmer and has more bass. The sound signature is different, so it would be difficult to compare. Both are good in their own ways. T5 is excellent for consumer-friendly sound, while the tevi sounds very spacious and airy and has higher resolution.


----------



## chinmie

DigDub said:


> The t5 is warmer and has more bass. The sound signature is different, so it would be difficult to compare. Both are good in their own ways. T5 is excellent for consumer-friendly sound, while the tevi sounds very spacious and airy and has higher resolution.



man... you made me wanting the Tevi... i got too much BT wireless already


----------



## DigDub

chinmie said:


> man... you made me wanting the Tevi... i got too much BT wireless already


Since you have the etymotic, I don't think you will regret getting the tevi.


----------



## BigZ12

DigDub said:


> I'm using the largest tips that came with my xiaomi wired earphones, I like them with tws buds that are of this design, it creates a good seal and gives good bass.
> 
> As far as I can tell, probably the top half of the shell and the button is their own design, the bottom half is the same as mpow and the case is the same except the USB-C port. The driver tuning is definitely different between the tevi, t5 and aviot te-d01g which also uses the same bud design platform. Some pics below for comparison. I can charge the buds in the cases interchangably with no issues.


Thanks for the comparison. Lypertek boasts of 10h battery life and graphene driver. Guess that's why the Tevis are slightly different in the top half of the shelf? Different hardware inside?
I've not tested if my Tevis do 10h with 50% volume and SBC, since my iPhone is AAC and I play maybe 60% volume in average. But they certainly last longer than the 5h stated in the T5 specs.
BTW, did they spray your lid with perfume?


----------



## DigDub

BigZ12 said:


> Thanks for the comparison. Lypertek boasts of 10h battery life and graphene driver. Guess that's why the Tevis are slightly different in the top half of the shelf? Different hardware inside?
> I've not tested if my Tevis do 10h with 50% volume and SBC, since my iPhone is AAC and I play maybe 60% volume in average. But they certainly last longer than the 5h stated in the T5 specs.
> BTW, did they spray your lid with perfume?


The top half of the tevi is thicker, so it may be housing a bigger battery. There isn't any perfume smell on my case.


----------



## clerkpalmer

chompchomps said:


> If you check the thread earlier, you would see people posting a link from alibaba that resembles the M5 pretty closely.. a rebranded OEM? or re-tuned oem?


Interesting. I have to believe advanced is sourcing the shell and case and probably chipset but will be tuning these to their own preferences.  I would certainly hope so at least.  For a small company sourcing like that may make sense. I will be interested in seeing the specs versus the Ali versions which sell for 108.


----------



## WesennTony (Sep 1, 2019)

Keep testing BT20S+Kanas Pro pair. The burning-in of KPE adds more bass texture and instrument separation, though more obvious when wired. Borrowing political terms, they are the most acoustically "correct" IEM I've ever heard, deliberately tuned not to offend anybody. Rolled off trebles, controlled bass with good depth and layers. The sound stage is oval shaped, wide but not too deep. The sweetest spot in sound is for mezzo soprano or female sultry voice, giving the perfect tone and power combined. Away from that, the female voice with high notes tends to lack angelic charm, and angry, tough guys tend to go easy to punch my ear drums. Forget about classics. Overall to me they're a big upgrade from Anbes 359, almost identical sound sig and tone but better in everything, especially bass texture and a lot more details. It's very enjoyable listening to Pop and soft rock with these. They're now my go to pair for gym use, with more balanced weight around the ears and less pressure in ears, and more secure.

I'll say in SQ they're on the same level of Nuarl NT01ax and MW07, maybe a bit better, with different sound sig. Nuarl are better for soprano and classics or watching TVs, podcast, etc., and MW07 for that unique Beryllium addiction. I suspect that these "high-end" TWS are the limit of AAC and AptX. May need to go to AptX HD or LDAC for better. With a slight hope, though, I ordered BT20S MMCX to see how they go with multiple BAs like Westone W60 or ATH-E70.


----------



## clerkpalmer

Great feedback. Thank you  It is interesting to me that you are finding the sq similar - not better- than nuarl and mw07.  In any event, I have thr beryllium dunu t6 here just waiting for my mmcx bt20s to arrive. The t6 definitely reminds me of the mw07 so I'm excited to hear how it pairs with the bt20.  You are probably correct that bluetooth is becoming the limiting factor. We NEED ldac to take the next jump in sq.  Hard to believe sony hasn't offered this yet.  As other have postulated, ldac probably crushes battery life.


----------



## WesennTony

clerkpalmer said:


> Great feedback. Thank you  It is interesting to me that you are finding the sq similar - not better- than nuarl and mw07.  In any event, I have thr beryllium dunu t6 here just waiting for my mmcx bt20s to arrive. The t6 definitely reminds me of the mw07 so I'm excited to hear how it pairs with the bt20.  You are probably correct that bluetooth is becoming the limiting factor. We NEED ldac to take the next jump in sq.  Hard to believe sony hasn't offered this yet.  As other have postulated, ldac probably crushes battery life.


Can't wait for your feedback on t6. I just ordered MW07 (4th time, hopefully the last) from Drop for commute use. My impression on SQ may be biased, since their sound sig is not good for high-note females and classics, which are two of my favorite genres.


----------



## chinmie

WesennTony said:


> Keep testing BT20S+Kanas Pro pair. The burning-in of KPE adds more bass texture and instrument separation, though more obvious when wired. Borrowing political terms, they are the most acoustically "correct" IEM I've ever heard, deliberately tuned not to offend anybody. Rolled off trebles, controlled bass with good depth and layers. The sound stage is oval shaped, wide but not too deep. The sweetest spot in sound is for mezzo soprano or female sultry voice, giving the perfect tone and power combined. Away from that, the female voice with high notes tends to lack angelic charm, and angry, tough guys tend to go easy to punch my ear drums. Forget about classics. Overall to me they're a big upgrade from Anbes 359, almost identical sound sig and tone but better in everything, especially bass texture and a lot more details. It's very enjoyable listening to Pop and soft rock with these. They're now my go to pair for gym use, with more balanced weight around the ears and less pressure in ears, and more secure.
> 
> I'll say in SQ they're on the same level of Nuarl NT01ax and MW07, maybe a bit better, with different sound sig. Nuarl are better for soprano and classics or watching TVs, podcast, etc., and MW07 for that unique Beryllium addiction. I suspect that these "high-end" TWS are the limit of AAC and AptX. May need to go to AptX HD or LDAC for better. With a slight hope, though, I ordered BT20S MMCX to see how they go with multiple BAs like Westone W60 or ATH-E70.



my Kanas (the bassier-more aggressive sounding brother of the Kanas Pro) paired to BT20 compared to wired (Lyra cable) doesn't sound much different. I'd argue the difference is less because of bluetooth signal degrading (if any) vs wired, but more because the difference of the amps used (amps on theDAC/DAP vs amp of the BT20) . I'm comparing strictly with spotify. more so, that difference can only be detected by me on a really quiet environment. any added environmental noise, that difference would become negligible. 

my other IEMs and earbuds also retain their sound like when used wired, except some of my more sensitive IEMs, that would have a bit of added hiss/noise with the BT20 

maybe when comparing with higher quality files like Wavs or DSDs, the difference would be more apparent between BT and wired, or maybe not. others might be able to chime in.


----------



## d3myz

TK33 said:


> Interesting.  I had the exact opposite experience with the 360s. I lost all bass on my JBLs and Senns but agree they were super comfortable.  The 360s, however, went straight into the trash as I felt they made everything too bright and reduced the bass too much.  Based on your experience, I think it may have been a fit issue for me as they are shorter to allow them to fit in TWS cases and narrower than the stock tips I have.  I bought the Spinfit CP100z afterwards and am using them on the MTWs and they are fantastic.  They are longer than the 360s which seems to help with SQ and seal for me. Size M fits in the case for the MTWs. Everyone's ears are shaped differently so this just shows that you really won't know what works for you until you try yourself...


Yea, that is really interesting, I also bought some cp100z, they are just sitting here becasue the holes look even more narrow. i'll have to give them a chance. Thanks for posting this, it really does go to show how ear buds and tips are very subjective.


----------



## Hanzilein (Sep 1, 2019)

Hey guys,

so I am in for a new IEM, more specific a TWS to supersede my SoundMagic E10. I am quite a fan of the sound signature of the E10, so the new IEM should have a similiar tuning/signature - means more bass and more highs than normal. So it just makes 'fun' it fun to listen.

Options are the
KZ T1 (33€ for me)
Mpow T5 (50€)
Mpow T6 (30€)

Personally, I want a bit better sound than the E10, but with the same tuning/signature. Also, I don't want the IEMs to stick out of my ears that much. Battery life is a tad 'concerning' for me, because I don't really know if I will have the battery case with me when I need it. For longer listening sessions I will probably will buy an other wired IEM.

So what are your thoughts on the above mentioned IEMs with focus on the sound I want and can I expect a little better sound in general? Which one would you take or do you have alternatives? Maybe you say to pay 80€ for Outlier Air is worth it?


----------



## CardigdanWalk

Slater said:


> You should be able to adapt this mod to the KZ case:
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/goi...re-we-there-yet.861024/page-494#post-14996945





cacio said:


> just want to leave my experience with the KZ T1 TWS.
> 
> Overall I will rip the case apart and cut the housings out and replace left and right. So annoying . And this is nothing you would have to ask from public beta feedback. This is obviouse if you try to use it once!



Have either of you had luck with getting the bottom plastic tray out of the KZ T1?

I’m trying with guitar pics, spludgers, needles, anything to get any purchase without any luck.

The only time I got anything was trying to wedge a screwdriver into the back lid hinge section, but it seemed like a was breaking the hinge instead of getting the tray out.


----------



## webvan

Is it my eyes or do the KZ T1 indeed use the Sabbat E12 case ?

I'm really still super happy with my X12, great sound and ideal for running to stay alert and avoid the "thump" of IEMs. It seems it's the only "earbud" TWS out there, other than the AIrpods of course  I'll have to pick up another pair one day just in case I lose these. I wonder if the the X12 Ultra retain the same great sound, it does seem like they've moved from a Realtek to a QC chip though...


----------



## actorlife

Hanzilein said:


> Hey guys,
> 
> so I am in for a new IEM, more specific a TWS to supersede my SoundMagic E10. I am quite a fan of the sound signature of the E10, so the new IEM should have a similiar tuning/signature - means more bass and more highs than normal. So it just makes 'fun' it fun to listen.
> 
> ...


Mpow T5 or Kissral R18 are the best bang for your bucks. Get both and don't come back here unless you need help with them or your wallet will be light


----------



## Hanzilein (Sep 1, 2019)

The UFO, I see  - but I will only buy one pair of TWS^^
Okay, so I am in between the KZ T1, the Kissral R18 (Ufo case looks a bit weird) and the Mpow T5. Important for me is as I said that the sound signature should be somewhat like the E10, only better. Also which one is the tiniest?


----------



## actorlife (Sep 1, 2019)

Hanzilein said:


> The UFO, I see  - but I will only buy one pair of TWS^^
> Okay, so I am in between the KZ T1, the Kissral R18 (Ufo case looks a bit weird) and the Mpow T5. Important for me is as I said that the sound signature should be somewhat like the E10, only better. Also which one is the tiniest?


UFO  and Mpow T5 best SQ budget wise. Both have great treble, mids and bass. UFO has the better soundstage. I never heard the soundmagic E10.


----------



## Soreniglio

I'm having hard issues with the seal and the fit with my QCY T3, seems like my left ear is a bit messed up, I'm gonna return them for good.

Anything at 40€ price range that is worth the money?


----------



## chinmie

webvan said:


> Is it my eyes or do the KZ T1 indeed use the Sabbat E12 case ?
> 
> I'm really still super happy with my X12, great sound and ideal for running to stay alert and avoid the "thump" of IEMs. It seems it's the only "earbud" TWS out there, other than the AIrpods of course  I'll have to pick up another pair one day just in case I lose these. I wonder if the the X12 Ultra retain the same great sound, it does seem like they've moved from a Realtek to a QC chip though...



there are several other "earbuds" type TWS available (Mifo O2 for example) , but it seems no one here have bought them yet. i myself are content enough with the X12 that I'm hesitant to purchase another earbud type. 

here's another earbud TWS


----------



## assassin10000

chinmie said:


> there are several other "earbuds" type TWS available (Mifo O2 for example) , but it seems no one here have bought them yet. i myself are content enough with the X12 that I'm hesitant to purchase another earbud type.
> 
> here's another earbud TWS



I had the X12 pro's as well. But they aren't as good as the BT20/BT20S combined with mmcx earbuds.

 

They're keeping me from purchasing a slew of TWS products lol.


----------



## actorlife

gibletzor said:


> I have my B530s in hand.  Won't get a chance to give them an initial test until tonight.  Hard to keep an eye on chitlens without being able to hear all they're getting into!
> 
> Also, if you're in the US, don't forget it's a holiday weekend so if they're scheduled to be delivered Sunday or Monday you probably won't get them until Tuesday.


Well you gave me the whammy. Cause of hurricane delay on the B530. Now ship date is Sept 2-4. Dang gone it.


----------



## chinmie

assassin10000 said:


> I had the X12 pro's as well. But they aren't as good as the BT20/BT20S combined with mmcx earbuds.
> 
> 
> 
> They're keeping me from purchasing a slew of TWS products lol.



the negative thing is, because of the BT20s combo successes, it made me purchase another BT20S and an IEM to go with it on the last Alix sale 

when it arrives, it would my third BT20 combos in my collection


----------



## WesennTony

chinmie said:


> my Kanas (the bassier-more aggressive sounding brother of the Kanas Pro) paired to BT20 compared to wired (Lyra cable) doesn't sound much different. I'd argue the difference is less because of bluetooth signal degrading (if any) vs wired, but more because the difference of the amps used (amps on theDAC/DAP vs amp of the BT20) . I'm comparing strictly with spotify. more so, that difference can only be detected by me on a really quiet environment. any added environmental noise, that difference would become negligible.
> 
> my other IEMs and earbuds also retain their sound like when used wired, except some of my more sensitive IEMs, that would have a bit of added hiss/noise with the BT20
> 
> maybe when comparing with higher quality files like Wavs or DSDs, the difference would be more apparent between BT and wired, or maybe not. others might be able to chime in.


I wired KPE with stock cable and plugged in my phone LG V30 to do the burn-in playing lossless files like ALAC, FLAC, APE, WAV, etc. From time to time I picked them up and listened a couple of songs. I did notice the difference after the burn-in and replaced with BT20S as I mentioned, not so significant but more than before burn-in. This was in a quiet environment. Another noticeable difference is the low hiss with BT20S, especially during a silent period within a song, hence a higher noise floor. I don't tend to test the wired outside, since I got KPE specifically to pair with BT20S, and stock cable is just not comfortable for me.

I do hope that BT20S can do well with my W60. If the difference is like that in KPE, that'll be my end-game FTM. Wait and see...


----------



## chinmie

WesennTony said:


> I wired KPE with stock cable and plugged in my phone LG V30 to do the burn-in playing lossless files like ALAC, FLAC, APE, WAV, etc. From time to time I picked them up and listened a couple of songs. I did notice the difference after the burn-in and replaced with BT20S as I mentioned, not so significant but more than before burn-in. This was in a quiet environment. Another noticeable difference is the low hiss with BT20S, especially during a silent period within a song, hence a higher noise floor. I don't tend to test the wired outside, since I got KPE specifically to pair with BT20S, and stock cable is just not comfortable for me.
> 
> I do hope that BT20S can do well with my W60. If the difference is like that in KPE, that'll be my end-game FTM. Wait and see...



does youtlr W60 require less/more volume than your KPE when connected with wire to the same device? if it's more sensitive (use less volume gain than the KPE), chances are the hiss would be more noticable. might i suggest the BT20 instead, which is less powerful than the BT20S and has less hiss


----------



## WesennTony

chinmie said:


> does youtlr W60 require less/more volume than your KPE when connected with wire to the same device? if it's more sensitive (use less volume gain than the KPE), chances are the hiss would be more noticable. might i suggest the BT20 instead, which is less powerful than the BT20S and has less hiss


Thanks for the suggestion. That's good to know. They're easier to drive, yes, but I'm not sure if it's the cable or the earbuds themselves. The ultra thin cable with W60 is much less demanding than other cables, definitely than the KPE stock cable . I could not find the sensitivity value of KPE so hard to compare. I already ordered the BT20S so I'll see how they go first. Besides BT20S connect to my LG v30 automatically with AptX, which is a plus for me. I always doubt that the AAC in V30 is inferior, which is apparent with my Earin M2, so anything default to AptX is welcome.


----------



## Steven Brittain

Steven Brittain said:


> Got mine today but had a crazy day no testing yet. Got half refund yesterday. I am excited to try these out. Any Bluetooth adapter recommendations that I can plug into my musical paradise tube amp these will connect too? I have one of those generic push button adapters with headphone jack but can't get them to pair to it.


Bueller, Bueller, Bueller, Anyone, Anyone...
Any suggestions on bt adapters I can use? 
Thanks


----------



## Insidious Meme

assassin10000 said:


> I had the X12 pro's as well. But they aren't as good as the BT20/BT20S combined with mmcx earbuds.
> 
> 
> 
> They're keeping me from purchasing a slew of TWS products lol.



I have one BT20S  coming in. Just not anytime soon. We'll see if my patience holds out.


----------



## chinmie

WesennTony said:


> Thanks for the suggestion. That's good to know. They're easier to drive, yes, but I'm not sure if it's the cable or the earbuds themselves. The ultra thin cable with W60 is much less demanding than other cables, definitely than the KPE stock cable . I could not find the sensitivity value of KPE so hard to compare. I already ordered the BT20S so I'll see how they go first. Besides BT20S connect to my LG v30 automatically with AptX, which is a plus for me. I always doubt that the AAC in V30 is inferior, which is apparent with my Earin M2, so anything default to AptX is welcome.



just curious, my M2 when i switch it from Aptx to AAC, the touch control would be disabled.. does your M2 do that too? 

sometimes when i use the M2 for sleeping, i intentionally switch it to AAC so it doesn't do unwanted play/pause.
i know it was supposed to be a bug, but i utilized it as a feature


----------



## DigDub

So I fitted large spinfit cp350 tips on the tevi and it increased the mid bass and tamed the mid highs which I had found a bit too hot.


----------



## thimantha

It's my first post in this thread (in the entire website actually).  So I've tested the waters of the Chi-Fi TWS earphones with the QCY QS2 and I'm loving it. I was looking for an upgrade and was looking at the Mpow T5, Nillkin Go and the Tranya T3. 

The only thing that's keeping me from buying the Mpow is the fact that the earphones blink while in use. 

Are there any other recommendations that I should look at and any insights that might be valuable to me in going down this rabbit hole?  

Thanks in advance.


----------



## Caipirina

Hanzilein said:


> Hey guys,
> 
> so I am in for a new IEM, more specific a TWS to supersede my SoundMagic E10. I am quite a fan of the sound signature of the E10, so the new IEM should have a similiar tuning/signature - means more bass and more highs than normal. So it just makes 'fun' it fun to listen.
> 
> ...



Oh wow, Soundmagic E10 brings back old memories, I think that was the first time someone said 'check the reviews on Head-Fi' ... yep, this is how I ended up here  

Anyhoo, i know I liked the E10 that much that I bought a second pair, if I recall correctly, the soundsig is V shaped, ample bass and highs (basically what the 'loudness' button on old stereos was for)

One thing you did not mention, do you plan on using the TWS for working out? and do you sweat a lot ... In this case I would not go for the KZ T1, afaik no IPX rating. They have great sound, but the volume 'hump' can possibly annoying (there's like nothing between 30% vol and 65%) .... The Mpow T5 would match your wish for 'E10, just better' closest, but they do stick out a bit .. not Bose SSF bad, but yeah, they are out there. 

The Anbes 359 (or now Kissral something) are really nice and flush and great sound. But you would possibly even be happy with the QCY T1 (tried them yesterday first time on a run and was impressed with the sound and the connection ... more stable connection than my Bose or Sony!) ...   

And yeah, we all say 'only one more TWS'


----------



## gibletzor

actorlife said:


> Well you gave me the whammy. Cause of hurricane delay on the B530. Now ship date is Sept 2-4. Dang gone it.


Sorry!!


----------



## hifi80sman

Caipirina said:


> Oh wow, Soundmagic E10 brings back old memories, I think that was the first time someone said 'check the reviews on Head-Fi' ... yep, this is how I ended up here
> 
> Anyhoo, i know I liked the E10 that much that I bought a second pair, if I recall correctly, the soundsig is V shaped, ample bass and highs (basically what the 'loudness' button on old stereos was for)
> 
> ...


Yeah, I’m always like “this is the last one, really!”

You know you have a problem when you’re wearing a pair and you can’t figure out which control scheme to use because you can’t remember which TWS you’re wearing.


----------



## Caipirina

hifi80sman said:


> Yeah, I’m always like “this is the last one, really!”
> 
> You know you have a problem when you’re wearing a pair and you can’t figure out which control scheme to use because you can’t remember which TWS you’re wearinger.



And you know you have too many when you find / order a new pair and later realize you already have that one


----------



## Caipirina

thimantha said:


> It's my first post in this thread (in the entire website actually).  So I've tested the waters of the Chi-Fi TWS earphones with the QCY QS2 and I'm loving it. I was looking for an upgrade and was looking at the Mpow T5, Nillkin Go and the Tranya T3.
> 
> The only thing that's keeping me from buying the Mpow is the fact that the earphones blink while in use.
> 
> ...



Those 3 fall into the same sound category in my book. Like them all 3, the Tranya and the Nilkin do NOT have blinking lights while playing music. (Never really noticed on the Mpow, but now that you say it ... yes, they blink) 

Depending on what your usage is (working out? passive noise cancelling?) and what type of music you like, the Mifo O5 (Pro, with a BA driver) do a great job in passive NC, while sounding awesome. 
Then there's the Anbes 359, you can find tons of positive 'hype' here, it appears that they are not easy to find anymore, only rebrands like Kisreal or something like that ... UFO shaped housing, buds very flush, great for running. 
Something really special in sound signature are the new KZ T1 (BA & DD drivers), but it's a public beta and has a couple of quirks, maybe wait for the next version

For some more ideas how to burn your well earned LKR on TWS, may I recommend @Bartig 's evil collection of eye-candy and reviews on scarbir.com   



oh, and don't go buy these at Majestic City    They are not real Bose


----------



## webvan

chinmie said:


> there are several other "earbuds" type TWS available (Mifo O2 for example) , but it seems no one here have bought them yet. i myself are content enough with the X12 that I'm hesitant to purchase another earbud type.
> 
> here's another earbud TWS



Thanks, what model is that ? The case seems elaborate with its battery level display in digits.


----------



## BigZ12

DigDub said:


> So I fitted large spinfit cp350 tips on the tevi and it increased the mid bass and tamed the mid highs which I had found a bit too hot.


Did you try the inlcuded Flexfit foam tips? I use the large one.


----------



## chinmie

webvan said:


> Thanks, what model is that ? The case seems elaborate with its battery level display in digits.



it has different names. the best way is to use image search with that picture. i find the image search of the AE app is quite good nowadays


----------



## webvan

Had never used that feature of the app, it works well indeed. It found a couple, cheapest is 21€. It seems to be the same basic design as the X12 (shape of the buds, openings, etc...) with a different case. After the T8 "X12 Clones" (or whatever they were called) fiasco It would probably be safer to get an extra pair of X12 Pros though. The X12 Ultra could be interesting too but I wonder how much of an impact the QC chip has compared to the RT one.


----------



## Caipirina

webvan said:


> After the T8 "X12 Clones" (or whatever they were called) fiasco



wow ... is that still a thing?   

funny enough, I actually listened to them again today (those T8) .. and for cheap, they are not total rubbish (like i..e. the 15$ D015), actually kinda enjoyed it (yep, trying to keep all my babies in rotation) ... but now I want to charge up my X12 again ... has been a while ...


----------



## Hanzilein (Sep 2, 2019)

Caipirina said:


> One thing you did not mention, do you plan on using the TWS for working out? and do you sweat a lot ... In this case I would not go for the KZ T1, afaik no IPX rating. They have great sound, but the volume 'hump' can possibly annoying (there's like nothing between 30% vol and 65%) .... The Mpow T5 would match your wish for 'E10, just better' closest, but they do stick out a bit .. not Bose SSF bad, but yeah, they are out there.
> 
> The Anbes 359 (or now Kissral something) are really nice and flush and great sound. But you would possibly even be happy with the QCY T1 (tried them yesterday first time on a run and was impressed with the sound and the connection ... more stable connection than my Bose or Sony!) ...


Yes, I wanted to use them for working out as well, but I don't sweat that much at my ears . According to scarbir the KZ T1s have a IPX4 rating, he also mentions USB-C - which we know, isn't true.. It also is the only information on the web about it.
Volume control shouldn't be an issue as I am and Android user and the problem only exists on iOS.

I heard rumours that KZ  stopped the production. Does anyone know about this?
Sticking out too much out of my ears is a no go. I can't live with big stones in my ears, sorry 
So it is Kissral R18 aka the UFO vs KZ T1. I will have a look at the QCY T1  But can they have really a better sound at this price point than my SoundMagic E10s?
How would you rate the the mentioned TWS in consideration of v-shape sound and sticking out of the ears?



Caipirina said:


> Something really special in sound signature are the new KZ T1 (BA & DD drivers), but it's a public beta and has a couple of quirks, maybe wait for the next version


Is it still public beta? I can't find this information on their website anymore.


----------



## DigDub

BigZ12 said:


> Did you try the inlcuded Flexfit foam tips? I use the large one.


I generally try to stick to rubber tips. Foam wears out and has to do the press the foam flat and let it expand thing.


----------



## Caipirina

Hanzilein said:


> Yes, I wanted to use them for working out as well, but I don't sweat that much at my ears . According to scarbir the KZ T1s have a IPX4 rating, he also mentions USB-C - which we know, isn't true.. It also is the only information on the web about it.
> Volume control shouldn't be an issue as I am and Android user and the problem only exists on iOS.
> 
> I heard rumours that KZ  stopped the production. Does anyone know about this?
> ...



I think all the ones that were shipped were 'public beta' ... or that was at least their excuse for a not super polished (but very well sounding) product.
I asked @Bartig (scarbir.com) how he got the IPX4 info and he drew a blank   I guess with so many TWS around, some info gets lost / mixed up sometimes.

I was actually very surprised by the sound of the QCY T1 when I first heard them, maybe as much as when I had the E10 the first time ...  not really in the mood to dig out the E10 and do some analytical comparison ... maybe on the weekend ... but at 20$ i'd say just get them


----------



## BigZ12

DigDub said:


> I generally try to stick to rubber tips. Foam wears out and has to do the press the foam flat and let it expand thing.


But foam is more comfortable in my opinion. No "vacuum-feel" like the silicone tips, and no change in sound with chewing or opening/shutting the mouth. Less noise while walking/running too.
I also think foam gives a bit warmer sound, with a bit more bass. That's very suitable for the Tevis.


----------



## Caipirina

Hanzilein said:


> Yes, I wanted to use them for working out as well, but I don't sweat that much at my ears . According to scarbir the KZ T1s have a IPX4 rating, he also mentions USB-C - which we know, isn't true.. It also is the only information on the web about it.
> Volume control shouldn't be an issue as I am and Android user and the problem only exists on iOS.
> 
> I heard rumours that KZ  stopped the production. Does anyone know about this?
> ...



Just seeing that both the Kissral and the QCY are available at amazon.de    you could order, listen to, send back if you don't like


----------



## Hanzilein (Sep 2, 2019)

Caipirina said:


> I was actually very surprised by the sound of the QCY T1 when I first heard them, maybe as much as when I had the E10 the first time ...  not really in the mood to dig out the E10 and do some analytical comparison ... maybe on the weekend ... but at 20$ i'd say just get them



Well, I ordered the QCY T1, the Killaris. I will order the KZ T1s on KZs website as well I think.  crap  I wanted to stick with one TWS 

Too late, ordered all of the mentioned ones and the Mpow T5, as it was on sale on amazon. Only one I haven't bought yet is the KZ T1^^


----------



## DigDub

H


BigZ12 said:


> But foam is more comfortable in my opinion. No "vacuum-feel" like the silicone tips, and no change in sound with chewing or opening/shutting the mouth. Less noise while walking/running too.
> I also think foam gives a bit warmer sound, with a bit more bass. That's very suitable for the Tevis.



Mine only came with one pair of foam tips. Did your tevi come with different foam tips of different sizes?


----------



## BigZ12

DigDub said:


> H
> 
> 
> Mine only came with one pair of foam tips. Did your tevi come with different foam tips of different sizes?


*** LIMITED TIME FREE GIFT FOR FLEXFIT FOAM TIPS***
https://www.lypertek.com/product-page/lypertek-tevi-truly-wireless-earphones


----------



## WesennTony

chinmie said:


> just curious, my M2 when i switch it from Aptx to AAC, the touch control would be disabled.. does your M2 do that too?
> 
> sometimes when i use the M2 for sleeping, i intentionally switch it to AAC so it doesn't do unwanted play/pause.
> i know it was supposed to be a bug, but i utilized it as a feature


Yeah they do that. I pinned customer support about this, and they claimed that it's designed on purpose
BTW, I'm new to BT20S, is there a way to make their cable yield a little bit and reform? Some posts mentioned hair blower, but I want to know more details before I try.


----------



## clerkpalmer

WesennTony said:


> Yeah they do that. I pinned customer support about this, and they claimed that it's designed on purpose
> BTW, I'm new to BT20S, is there a way to make their cable yield a little bit and reform? Some posts mentioned hair blower, but I want to know more details before I try.



I dont think the cable can be reformed. That said, the fit is very good for me.  I find the bt20 more comfortable than most of my tw sets except maybe the powerbeats pro.


----------



## chinmie

WesennTony said:


> Yeah they do that. I pinned customer support about this, and they claimed that it's designed on purpose
> BTW, I'm new to BT20S, is there a way to make their cable yield a little bit and reform? Some posts mentioned hair blower, but I want to know more details before I try.





clerkpalmer said:


> I dont think the cable can be reformed. That said, the fit is very good for me.  I find the bt20 more comfortable than most of my tw sets except maybe the powerbeats pro.



yes you can form it to some extend with heat. here is my unit (after forming) compared to the original slot of the box


----------



## Caipirina

Hanzilein said:


> Well, I ordered the QCY T1, the Killaris. I will order the KZ T1s on KZs website as well I think.  ****  I wanted to stick with one TWS
> 
> Too late, ordered all of the mentioned ones and the Mpow T5, as it was on sale on amazon. Only one I haven't bought yet is the KZ T1^^



You didn't get the ZagZog on time? at 29.99€ that was a great flash deal price   ah well, keep on your radar for next flash deal maybe .. just listening to them again and I like 'em as much as the Tranya & Mpow .. and they have vol control on the buds as well ...


----------



## assassin10000

chinmie said:


> the negative thing is, because of the BT20s combo successes, it made me purchase another BT20S and an IEM to go with it on the last Alix sale
> 
> when it arrives, it would my third BT20 combos in my collection



I'm on my 4th lol. 1st BT20 I killed doing laundry. 2nd BT20 I sold when I received two BT20S' I ordered at the same time.



WesennTony said:


> Yeah they do that. I pinned customer support about this, and they claimed that it's designed on purpose
> BTW, I'm new to BT20S, is there a way to make their cable yield a little bit and reform? Some posts mentioned hair blower, but I want to know more details before I try.



Just bend it past where you want it a few times. Hair dryer not needed. 

I've actually changed the ear hooks on my BT20S, they have a spring steel 'memory wire' inside. It can be worked into the shape you want.


----------



## WesennTony

chinmie said:


> yes you can form it to some extend with heat. here is my unit (after forming) compared to the original slot of the box


How did you do that? They're comfortable, but the way they bend now makes KPE less sealed.


----------



## chinmie

WesennTony said:


> How did you do that? They're comfortable, but the way they bend now makes KPE less sealed.



 i just bent them past a certain point while heating it, but from what @assassin10000  said, the heat should not be necessary after all because there's a steel wire inside it, so i conclude the bending it alone would suffice. I've done it on four units (two of mine, and two of my friend's) with success.

my friend told me had i not re-formed the cable on his unit, he would have immediately sell it because he would never get them to fit comfortably and achieve a seal out of the box.


----------



## WesennTony

chinmie said:


> i just bent them past a certain point while heating it, but from what @assassin10000  said, the heat should not be necessary after all because there's a steel wire inside it, so i conclude the bending it alone would suffice. I've done it on four units (two of mine, and two of my friend's) with success.
> 
> my friend told me had i not re-formed the cable on his unit, he would have immediately sell it because he would never get them to fit comfortably and achieve a seal out of the box.


Thanks!


----------



## actorlife (Sep 2, 2019)

gibletzor said:


> Sorry!!


Argg anticipation is a bitch. Silly storm is BS so far here in FL.

All this BT20S talk might have to get them on a sale in Oct-Nov. How low have they gone? Newer version coming? Have lots of KZ to put into my rotation.


----------



## thimantha

Caipirina said:


> Those 3 fall into the same sound category in my book. Like them all 3, the Tranya and the Nilkin do NOT have blinking lights while playing music. (Never really noticed on the Mpow, but now that you say it ... yes, they blink)
> 
> Depending on what your usage is (working out? passive noise cancelling?) and what type of music you like, the Mifo O5 (Pro, with a BA driver) do a great job in passive NC, while sounding awesome.
> Then there's the Anbes 359, you can find tons of positive 'hype' here, it appears that they are not easy to find anymore, only rebrands like Kisreal or something like that ... UFO shaped housing, buds very flush, great for running.
> ...



Oh hey, a fellow Sri Lankan  Nice to meet you here.

I would be using them for casual day-to-day use and running. I'd love to have good passive noise cancelling and I listen to almost all genres including some heavy rock and metal music. I'm tempted to get the Nillkin because of the smaller case, lower price and availability on AliExpress compared to the Tranyas which only ship to SL via their own website and are a bit more expensive than the Nillkin. Anbes was one of my options but I dropped it because I don't like the UFO case that much and since that getting a genuine Anbes 359 seeems to be a gamble.

@Bartig is the one who sent me down this rabbit hole. First found him when I was looking for a pair of budget bluetooth headphones and bought the OneAudio Elysium recommended by him and loved them. And then bought the QCY's recommended by him and also loving them  His website is how i got to know about the Tranyas as well.

And, hell no I would never shop at Majestic City for anything when I can get the same or a better product from AliExpress for less than half the price.


----------



## Caipirina

thimantha said:


> And, hell no I would never shop at Majestic City for anything when I can get the same or a better product from AliExpress for less than half the price.



But hey, can't get fake Beats nor Bose on Aliexpress anymore  Those days are over ...  always laughing when I see that this stuff still exists though ... at MC

The Nilkin are lovely and yes, small .. I might need to give them some more time / love ... so far they have not won me over as much as the Tranya or the Mpow did.. but that could also be a timing / fitting issue. Have not done any ear tip rolling with them yet


----------



## thimantha

Caipirina said:


> But hey, can't get fake Beats nor Bose on Aliexpress anymore  Those days are over ...  always laughing when I see that this stuff still exists though ... at MC
> 
> The Nilkin are lovely and yes, small .. I might need to give them some more time / love ... so far they have not won me over as much as the Tranya or the Mpow did.. but that could also be a timing / fitting issue. Have not done any ear tip rolling with them yet



MC is filled with fake and counterfeit products from tech items to clothing to watches.

Could you give me a size comparison of the Nillkin case and the QCY case (and maybe the Airpods case if you have a pair and if it's not much of trouble)? If the case is very portable, I might just go for it since they're available on AliExpress for $29 which is literally half the price of the Tranyas with shipping costs added. I couldn't find any good reviews of the Nillkin yet, hence why I came to ask you guys.


----------



## chinmie

actorlife said:


> Argg anticipation is a bitch. Silly storm is BS so far here in FL.
> 
> All this BT20S talk might have to get them on a sale in Oct-Nov. How low have they gone? Newer version coming? Have lots of KZ to put into my rotation.



even the older BT20 still hold up nicely. i tested it with my ZS10 Pro and they are a nice match 



Caipirina said:


> The Nilkin are lovely and yes, small .. I might need to give them some more time / love ... so far they have not won me over as much as the Tranya or the Mpow did.. but that could also be a timing / fitting issue. Have not done any ear tip rolling with them yet



the Nillkin in some aspect is even better than some of my wired, to the point that if i don't need isolation, more often i would prefer to grab the Nillkin instead. the soundstage is more natural and has more "breathing space" feel to it.


----------



## Hanzilein

Caipirina said:


> You didn't get the ZagZog on time? at 29.99€ that was a great flash deal price   ah well, keep on your radar for next flash deal maybe .. just listening to them again and I like 'em as much as the Tranya & Mpow .. and they have vol control on the buds as well ...


I did, Mpow T5, Kissral R18, ZagZog and QCY T1 will arrive tomorrow and the KZ T1 in around two weeks lol
I hope one pair of the ones which arrive tomorrow will look 'good' and have a good v-shape signature  I ordered the T5, because it was on sale as well haha


----------



## Caipirina

thimantha said:


> MC is filled with fake and counterfeit products from tech items to clothing to watches.
> 
> Could you give me a size comparison of the Nillkin case and the QCY case (and maybe the Airpods case if you have a pair and if it's not much of trouble)? If the case is very portable, I might just go for it since they're available on AliExpress for $29 which is literally half the price of the Tranyas with shipping costs added. I couldn't find any good reviews of the Nillkin yet, hence why I came to ask you guys.


----------



## Rob E. (Sep 2, 2019)

Late to the party but from reading this thread a lot of you 'guys' have helped me in a good way. Much appreciated. Currently using the Tranya T3's and Astrotec (S80) Motivation. Defintite keepers for me. That's all so far, but maybe one more pair. Not looking to build a collection, (yeah I know).  I've tried and sent back the Enacfire E18 Plus and Tranya T1 Pro's. For me, they're both good but not good enough.

So, found this, and am trying to be very selective on the affordable/cheap side. Any thoughts or experiences with this one? Has IPX7, Graphene coated drivers, and although they don't mention (that I can see) APTX, the claimed 10Hr. playtime per charge can't be achieved without some ultra low power chip like the Qualcomm QCC30xx.

amazon.com/dp/B07TM9HWXG/?coliid=I2EIB74X0975R8&colid=1J1GGSOIVDR0Q


----------



## Caipirina

Hanzilein said:


> I did, Mpow T5, Kissral R18, ZagZog and QCY T1 will arrive tomorrow and the KZ T1 in around two weeks lol
> I hope one pair of the ones which arrive tomorrow will look 'good' and have a good v-shape signature  I ordered the T5, because it was on sale as well haha



Very curious what you think of the Zagzog. Seems no one else here has them. There is a look alike on AliX that costs over 50$.


----------



## actorlife (Sep 2, 2019)

Rob E. said:


> So, found this, and am trying to be very selective on the affordable/cheap side. Any thoughts or experiences with this one? Has IPX7, Graphene coated drivers, and although they don't mention (that I can see) APTX, the claimed 10Hr. playtime per charge can't be achieved without some ultra low power chip like the Qualcomm QCC30xx.
> 
> amazon.com/dp/B07TM9HWXG/?coliid=I2EIB74X0975R8&colid=1J1GGSOIVDR0Q


I like the case and the mic stick on the tws is not too bad. 10hr battery and Graphene too. I might check those out in Oct-Nov. I bet they sound good. My hopshoop is Graphene and I like em, but no aptx. Well see. Thanks for the link. Hopefully BA tws will get cheaper.


----------



## thimantha

chinmie said:


> even the older BT20 still hold up nicely. i tested it with my ZS10 Pro and they are a nice match
> 
> 
> 
> the Nillkin in some aspect is even better than some of my wired, to the point that if I don't need isolation, more often I would prefer to grab the Nillkin instead. the soundstage is more natural and has more "breathing space" feel to it.



Is the isolation on Nillkin that bad?


Caipirina said:


>



Oh man, that's even smaller than the Airpods case. I think I'm sold on the Nillkins. :3 Thanks BTW for going through the trouble to send the pictures! Much appreciated.


----------



## chinmie

thimantha said:


> Is the isolation on Nillkin that bad?



it's got the same level of isolation as typical vented IEMs. it still blocks most noise for sure. i use it to block wind noise when riding motorcycle and can still listen to the music, and can also still listen to people talking. 
whether that is a good or a bad thing depends on preference and situation. but i do have other IEM and TWS with better isolation


----------



## Caipirina

thimantha said:


> Is the isolation on Nillkin that bad?
> 
> 
> Oh man, that's even smaller than the Airpods case. I think I'm sold on the Nillkins. :3 Thanks BTW for going through the trouble to send the pictures! Much appreciated.



The AirPod case is thinner though. 

In terms of small I really like the Haylou GT1 and the Blitzwolf FYE5


----------



## Ocelitgol

anyone wanna sell me their BT20s? 

Side question: any TW that actually have a good microphone like the airpod?


----------



## BobJS

hifi80sman said:


> The Liberate Air's form factor is similar to the MPOW T5, so they stick out a little, but nothing like the SSF.  If you're happy with the MW07 battery and sound, I don't think the Liberate Air will replace it, but it would be a good backup (they sound nice and have a 9 hour battery).



You were right on, on all accounts.  They DO sound very good, they will NOT replace the MW07, nice sound, long battery life.  They're smaller than they look like in the pictures. Definitely requires some tip rolling as the included tips do not come even close to approaching a seal.  I like it connects with AptX.  It seems they don't do volume control, correct?


----------



## gibletzor (Sep 2, 2019)

gibletzor said:


> First impressions of the new Tranya B530 are very good!  Bass is nice and strong, but not overpowering.  A touch heavier than the Mpow T5, and just as punchy.  Not as ear rattling as the Alterola IE600 can get, but stronger than the Galaxy Buds.  Highs and mids are just a hair less crisp than T5 in overall quality, but still very clear.  This is with about 15 minutes of listening so far.  I'll let them burn in some in the coming days to see if they change any like people say the T3s do.
> Fit is very comfortable with stock ear tips.  I have a few others I want to try out with it later too.  Feels very similar to my Galaxy Buds in weight and how they sit in my ear.
> The case is nice.  It has the same group of 4 LEDs on the front that the Mpow T5 has for showing the status of the case battery.  The top of the case is translucent so you can see the LED light on the earbuds themselves to see the charging status.
> On first impressions, these are keepers.  $60 might be a bit steep when you can get the T5 for $45 without a sale, especially without a defining feature like Qi charging or ambient mode.


Adding on to my initial impressions of these new Tranya B530s:
Call quality seems to be quite good.  I called 2 family members, 1 with an iPhone and 1 with a Galaxy S9.  Both reported they could hardly tell I wasn't talking into the phone directly.  No echoes or anything.  They both said there was an extremely faint buzz in the background, but it was so faint they had to concentrate to hear it.  I was also outside with a slight breeze and neither complained of wind noise.
I haven't tried to run them for 8 hours straight while using them yet, but I spent over an hour outside in the yard with the volume on the buds at 100% and they're still reporting 90% battery.  I'm inclined to believe their claim of 8 hours of battery life will hold up.
Passive noise isolation is good with the stock eartips.  While I was weedeating, it blocked most of the noise, but I could still hear enough of my surroundings to be safe with it
The sound...  I don't have any complaints about the sound so far.  I listen to mostly 70's-00's Rock and Alternative with some Hip-Hop and Pop sprinkled in.  It sounds phenomenal for what I listen to.  After several more hours of use the bass has mellowed out just a tiny bit.  Still strong and high quality though, just not quite as boomy.  Highs and mids have no issues, clear and crisp.  On top of what I usually listen to, I've thrown some Classical and modern Pop at them and they've handled it with ease.  Sound stage and instrument separation are excellent as well.  I have not heard the supposed "king of soundstage" in TWS, the Anbes 359, so I'm not sure how they compare to it.
I'm in love with these things.  They're more comfortable than the Mpows.  The T5 still beats it in overall sound quality, but not by much at all.  B530 has better bass overall, T5s have clearer highs.
I still think Tranya needs to bring the regular price down to something comparable to what the Mpow T5, Tranya T3, and others go for; closer to the $45-50 range.  If you like long battery life, these are probably worth the extra $10-15 though.

Edit:  Forgot about video lag.  In YouTube and Netflix apps on my phone, I wasn't getting any noticable lag.  I haven't tried VLC yet.


----------



## actorlife (Sep 2, 2019)

gibletzor said:


> Adding on to my initial impressions of these new Tranya B530s:
> Call quality seems to be quite good.  I called 2 family members, 1 with an iPhone and 1 with a Galaxy S9.  Both reported they could hardly tell I wasn't talking into the phone directly.  No echoes or anything.  They both said there was an extremely faint buzz in the background, but it was so faint they had to concentrate to hear it.  I was also outside with a slight breeze and neither complained of wind noise.
> I haven't tried to run them for 8 hours straight while using them yet, but I spent over an hour outside in the yard with the volume on the buds at 100% and they're still reporting 90% battery.  I'm inclined to believe their claim of 8 hours of battery life will hold up.
> Passive noise isolation is good with the stock eartips.  While I was weedeating, it blocked most of the noise, but I could still hear enough of my surroundings to be safe with it
> ...


Thanks for the update. I really like that they opened up some. You should play music overnight for 8hrs straight to see if any difference in bass and treble. When I get mine gonna do two overnight straight before I give my thoughts. Let me go check and see if amazon will deliver by tomorrow...Nope no update yet. Grrrr.


----------



## gibletzor

actorlife said:


> Thanks for the update. I really like that they opened up some. You should play music overnight for 8hrs straight to see if any difference in bass and treble. When I get mine gonna do two overnight straight before I give my thoughts. Let me go check and see if amazon will deliver by tomorrow...


I did that last night.  Connected them to my PC, turned on a "burn-in" playlist I found on Spotify, and just let them go while I slept.


----------



## hifi80sman

BobJS said:


> You were right on, on all accounts.  They DO sound very good, they will NOT replace the MW07, nice sound, long battery life.  They're smaller than they look like in the pictures. Definitely requires some tip rolling as the included tips do not come even close to approaching a seal.  I like it connects with AptX.  It seems they don't do volume control, correct?


Correct.  That's the only shortcoming I've encountered, but given the whole package, I can overlook that.


----------



## hifi80sman (Sep 2, 2019)

I'm a sucker for a nice metal case.  Just ordered these and hoping they sound as good as the case looks.  No mention of AAC, so taking a bit of a flier.


----------



## CocaCola15 (Sep 2, 2019)

Big thanks to DigDub and the Lypertek Tevi suggestion. I just got them today, very nice, great sound. I did EQ the treble a wee bit, but I may try one of the Comply foamies I have laying around. I also have the CA Melomania 1 on hand and I really do like them, but the Tevi is a close second. I have owned a bunch of TW phones, the Senns, Jabra 65t, Sony WF1000M3, Nuheara IQ Buds, a couple of cheapies (QCY, Tranya T1 Pro) and the Tevi are highly competitive with the higher priced BT buds. Keeping them along with the M1s. Going to try some tip rolling right now, though the stock medium tips fit well. I have a feeling foam tips will be perfect.


----------



## Cryu

Stuck between the Jabra actives or the Marley liberate air, which one should I get? Or is there a better option around that price range? It's the same price for me on Amazon.ca which is my only option since Best buy doesn't do returns, so my options are pretty limited anyways. I'll be using them at work solely for wireless music so I don't really care for call quality or other gimmicks as long as they stay in and sound good. Let me know if there are any glaring problems with either or to watch out for too.


----------



## Gunslinger686

Tranya B530 review 

 Not going to be able to comment much on the sound I have yet to find a tip to stay secure in my right ear ,  so if anybody has a link where I can get some foam tips for these that would be awesome .  With that said I have been using these for the last two days constantly changing tips and jamming my right bud into my ear canal on a regular basis . I can say the sound is very balanced while they are secured in my ears ,that’s about as much detail as I can give until I get some tips that work better .  As for connectivity , function & calls I have had no issues.  When I receive them yesterday they were 90% charged I went ahead and charge the case and the buds to 100%  and started messing with them getting used to the function of the touchpad .@ 5 1/2 hours in I got a low battery signal in the right bud ,  volume at 90% I will note that imo they are not very loud . It may be possible to get eight hours at 50% volume and not taking phone calls , pausing and skipping tracks or using the phone assistant , but to me that would not be a realistic real world situation.


----------



## hifi80sman (Sep 2, 2019)

Cryu said:


> Stuck between the Jabra actives or the Marley liberate air, which one should I get? Or is there a better option around that price range? It's the same price for me on Amazon.ca which is my only option since Best buy doesn't do returns, so my options are pretty limited anyways. I'll be using them at work solely for wireless music so I don't really care for call quality or other gimmicks as long as they stay in and sound good. Let me know if there are any glaring problems with either or to watch out for too.


Solely for music, no brainier and go with the House of Marley Liberate Air.  The only thing I would note, as mentioned earlier in this thread, is the lack of volume controls on the 'buds themselves, however, if you're just using them for work and your phone is nearby, it shouldn't be an issue.  I use them in my office for music and calls, with my phone on the desk next to me, so volume controls are not an issue for me and my use.

Also, as a general practice regardless of volume control, I organize my playlists in "legacy" and "remastered" categories, so everything that's from the 70s, 80s, 90s, and even early 00s that hasn't been remastered, I have in a separate playlist so I don't have to keep changing the volume when I skip a track.  I never use the integrated software compressor in Spotify to "normalize" volume.  May as well go buy a black & white TV.

The *Jabra just doesn't sound great, but they are good *with nice versatility, but not the best cost/performance with respect to pure audio ability.


----------



## Rob E.

Gunslinger686 said:


> Tranya B530 review
> 
> Not going to be able to comment much on the sound I have yet to find a tip to stay secure in my right ear ,  so if anybody has a link where I can get some foam tips for these that would be awesome ...



Amazon sells Tranya Complys (maybe you already know this), and afaik... any style of Comply foam 400 size tips should fit them.


----------



## hifi80sman

UTAXO TWS

Not bad, not bad at all.  Initial impressions:

PROS
-  Nice metal case.  Slides open with a nice spring loaded mechanism.  Micro USB, but I knew that going in.
-  There is a nice little pouch to protect that nice metal case.
-  Full touch controls (play/pause, track fwd/rev, vol +/-).
-  AAC support.  Not sure if it's a Realtek Soc or an Airoha.
-  Sound is clean, crisp, and very balanced.  This would satisfy the budget audiophile.
-  Good call quality.  People reported I sounded loud & clear, albeit _slightly_ "electronic".

CONS
-  Not for bassheads.  They are not bass deficient, but they don't have that thump common with most mainstream consumer products.  However, using the Bass Boost EQ in Spotify (iOS) works well and the drivers have no issues handling it.
-  _Slight _white noise, but it's not distracting.  I notice it, but it's minor and Doesn't distract from purely acoustic guitar/vocal tracks.
-  Touch controls are a little fumbly.  Two taps to pause/play, but if it only registers one of them, it'll raise or lower the volume (depending which earbud you press).


----------



## riodgarp

hmm I also tough that foam ear tips could be reduced the vacuum feel, but squeezing ear tips every time using it? insert ain't nobody got time for that meme here


----------



## gibletzor

Well Tranya was true to their word.  I got all my money back for ordering the B530s early and leaving an honest review on Amazon.  They never requested or required that it be a 5 star review, but that is what they got anyway.  These things are great!


----------



## actorlife

OFUSHO F16 finally shipped I guess they will be here sometime this Wed/Thur. The price went up to $47.
The Tranya B530 should be here tomorrow hopefully.


----------



## JimmyR

gibletzor said:


> Well Tranya was true to their word.  I got all my money back for ordering the B530s early and leaving an honest review on Amazon.  They never requested or required that it be a 5 star review, but that is what they got anyway.  These things are great!



Glad the new Tranya did not dissapoint you! From the herd of unknown Chi-Fi brands, I really like those guys. They have a clear product focus and every product they put out     is an improvement over the previous one.
I wish they took the jump to adopt one of the Qualcomm chips (adding aptx and possibly a better mic), but they seem to do very well with the Realteks.


----------



## JimmyR

Well, a long awaited review on the Edifier TWS5 from Gamesky
Quite positive, especially regarding SQ. Not surprise coming from this brand.



Still cannot get why they decide to miss control volume. Such a bummer! should they did these could have been very well in my pocket. During the brands  week special of AliX a couple of weeks ago and with all coupons and discounts, they run for a bit more than 50 euros.
Really hope they fix this in the next iteration, since they’re really tempting to me


----------



## Cryu

hifi80sman said:


> Solely for music, no brainier and go with the House of Marley Liberate Air.  The only thing I would note, as mentioned earlier in this thread, is the lack of volume controls on the 'buds themselves, however, if you're just using them for work and your phone is nearby, it shouldn't be an issue.  I use them in my office for music and calls, with my phone on the desk next to me, so volume controls are not an issue for me and my use.
> 
> Also, as a general practice regardless of volume control, I organize my playlists in "legacy" and "remastered" categories, so everything that's from the 70s, 80s, 90s, and even early 00s that hasn't been remastered, I have in a separate playlist so I don't have to keep changing the volume when I skip a track.  I never use the integrated software compressor in Spotify to "normalize" volume.  May as well go buy a black & white TV.
> 
> The *Jabra just doesn't sound great, but they are good *with nice versatility, but not the best cost/performance with respect to pure audio ability.



Thanks for the reply, I just checked Amazon.ca again and the one seller that has the marleys doesn't do refunds so I guess it's the jabras for me since it's straight from amazon. I really hope they fit well.


----------



## TK33

Cryu said:


> Thanks for the reply, I just checked Amazon.ca again and the one seller that has the marleys doesn't do refunds so I guess it's the jabras for me since it's straight from amazon. I really hope they fit well.



Check Costco if you have a membership.  When I was looking at the Jabras I saw they were cheaper there.


----------



## d3myz

actorlife said:


> OFUSHO F16 finally shipped I guess they will be here sometime this Wed/Thur. The price went up to $47.
> The Tranya B530 should be here tomorrow hopefully.


I got both of mine. I'm interested to see your thoughts on the OFUSHO F16's.


----------



## d3myz

Initial impression of the OFUSHO F16 was not great. they sound a lot more muddy than the B530's, 359's T3 and T5, but then again the 530's and the T3's are pretty bright. Bass and mid bass is quite good and they do have some sparkle, but they are missing some maybe high mids? I can't place it.They sound stage is average and the definition is maybe a bit above average. Comfort wise they are a little bulky and the ear stabilizer? or whatever they are called are just kind of annoying and they aren't removable. controls are good and I kind of like that long pressing adjusts the volume, but it makes it tricky to just go one up/ one down. My biggest complaint is that you have to put them back in the cradle to power them off. I'll keep listening to them, but they aren't bad for $35, but probably should be $25-30? I'm interested to hear others thoughts.


----------



## actorlife

d3myz said:


> Initial impression of the OFUSHO F16 was not great. they sound a lot more muddy than the B530's, 359's T3 and T5, but then again the 530's and the T3's are pretty bright. Bass and mid bass is quite good and they do have some sparkle, but they are missing some maybe high mids? I can't place it.They sound stage is average and the definition is maybe a bit above average. Comfort wise they are a little bulky and the ear stabilizer? or whatever they are called are just kind of annoying and they aren't removable. controls are good and I kind of like that long pressing adjusts the volume, but it makes it tricky to just go one up/ one down. My biggest complaint is that you have to put them back in the cradle to power them off. I'll keep listening to them, but they aren't bad for $35, but probably should be $25-30? I'm interested to hear others thoughts.


Holy moly that is the apposite of what others have said. Maybe they need break in with music for a couple of days. Have you tried other tips?


----------



## Cryu

TK33 said:


> Check Costco if you have a membership.  When I was looking at the Jabras I saw they were cheaper there.


Oh jeez, completely forgot Costco had them too. Guess I'll see if I've got time after work and pick up a pair. Thanks a lot!


----------



## Hanzilein (Sep 3, 2019)

So, Zagzog TWS, Mpow T5, the UFO and the QCY T1 arrived.
First thoughts (this is all on 80%+ volume lol and without EQ):
Zagzog goes back. Can't listen because of very harsh highs, even using equalizer doesn't help.

Bass is T5 first, then QCY T1 and then the UFO.
UFO seems brighter than QCY T1 and doesn't go that deep. Highs are a bit harsh too. In 5 seconds of summer - Teeth is a very deep bass at the end. The T5 rumbles a bit , on the QCY T1 it is there and on the UFO it is even a little less. Mpow T5 sounds a bit boring in comparison because of the highs.
Pairing with T5 was easiest, then UFO then QCY T1.

Sadly, the T5 is that big and sticks out of the ears so much..
Well, I need to listen some more before making my decision.


----------



## actorlife (Sep 3, 2019)

Hanzilein said:


> So, Zagzog TWS, Mpow T5, the UFO and the QCY T1 arrived.
> First thoughts (this is all on 80%+ volume lol):
> Zagzog goes back. Can't listen because of very harsh highs, even using equalizer doesn't help.
> This I tested without using equalizer:
> ...


Make sure you run music 50% vol. on all of them for a week before you return anything. Believe me they need time to open up.


----------



## Hanzilein

actorlife said:


> Make sure you run music 50% vol. on all of them for a week before you return anything. Believe me they need time to open up.


While this is true, I don't think the harsh highs will change on the Zagzog..
Also for 30-50€ I don't want to invest that much time anymore. In the end I want to keep more than one pair even tho I will only listen to one


----------



## 05stisilver

Does anyone have any insight or thoughts on the Advanced M5-tws releasing tomorrow? Do they actually make any good sounding iems? I have heard of them but have always thought of them as a lower/low mid tier type of company. But I like the design of these earbuds.


----------



## clerkpalmer

05stisilver said:


> Does anyone have any insight or thoughts on the Advanced M5-tws releasing tomorrow? Do they actually make any good sounding iems? I have heard of them but have always thought of them as a lower/low mid tier type of company. But I like the design of these earbuds.



Nothing specific on the new M5 but advanced makes quality well priced products in both the budget and higher end areas. I have their first true wireless and it's pretty good for the price. Looking forward to seeing what thr M5 brings to the table.


----------



## Mouseman

05stisilver said:


> Does anyone have any insight or thoughts on the Advanced M5-tws releasing tomorrow? Do they actually make any good sounding iems? I have heard of them but have always thought of them as a lower/low mid tier type of company. But I like the design of these earbuds.


I'm interested to see the reviews, but I have some of their other gear and I'm not a huge fan of their house sound. It seems like they're going to be rather expensive ($129 super early bird), so hopefully they can live up to the price tag.  No volume control has been confirmed, and the case looks a lot like the KZ metal one but looks much bigger. So probably a pass for me. 

Unless someone comes up with a fantastic sound and battery life, I'm happy with relatively inexpensive buds I have - KZ, Mpow and Tranyas are plenty good for me.


----------



## clerkpalmer

Mouseman said:


> I'm interested to see the reviews, but I have some of their other gear and I'm not a huge fan of their house sound. It seems like they're going to be rather expensive ($129 super early bird), so hopefully they can live up to the price tag.  No volume control has been confirmed, and the case looks a lot like the KZ metal one but looks much bigger. So probably a pass for me.
> 
> Unless someone comes up with a fantastic sound and battery life, I'm happy with relatively inexpensive buds I have - KZ, Mpow and Tranyas are plenty good for me.



I though the case was similar to the KZ as well.  $129 super early bird - yikes!  That's aggressive pricing there.  I would want a hybrid setup for that price.


----------



## hifi80sman

hifi80sman said:


> UTAXO TWS
> 
> Not bad, not bad at all.  Initial impressions:
> 
> ...


Let me amend my feedback now that I've had more time with them.

-  The white noise is a bit louder than I had originally perceived it to be.  In a completely silent environment (initial impressions were in typical household noise with 4 other people), it's louder than I initially perceived it to be.  A little distracting.
-  As it relates to touch controls, I found that instead of tapping, swipe motions were more effective.  However, I still found it did not have the best response.
-  As I listened to more tracks, boosting the bass was not an option, as there were a fair number of songs that caused distortion.  That may be more due to the manner in which the software EQ is implemented in Spotify (iOS).  However, the sound is a little to "flat" for my taste.

All-in-all, these are a no-go for me.


----------



## hifi80sman

d3myz said:


> Initial impression of the OFUSHO F16 was not great. they sound a lot more muddy than the B530's, 359's T3 and T5, but then again the 530's and the T3's are pretty bright. Bass and mid bass is quite good and they do have some sparkle, but they are missing some maybe high mids? I can't place it.They sound stage is average and the definition is maybe a bit above average. Comfort wise they are a little bulky and the ear stabilizer? or whatever they are called are just kind of annoying and they aren't removable. controls are good and I kind of like that long pressing adjusts the volume, but it makes it tricky to just go one up/ one down. My biggest complaint is that you have to put them back in the cradle to power them off. I'll keep listening to them, but they aren't bad for $35, but probably should be $25-30? I'm interested to hear others thoughts.


The listing says there are touch controls, but you seem to suggest they are buttons ("pressing").  Is that the case?  I'm partial to touch controls because physical buttons often re-seat the 'buds and make re-adjustment necessary.


----------



## hifi80sman

Ordered these with a promo code (8L2NI5L3) that brings them down to $31.  Hopefully these will hit the spot!  I haven't had good luck with earbuds that have metal cases (except for the MW07), so going back to the ol' plastic case!


----------



## d3myz

actorlife said:


> Holy moly that is the apposite of what others have said. Maybe they need break in with music for a couple of days. Have you tried other tips?



Yea, I tried the stock tips, spinfit 360's and spiral dots.


----------



## d3myz

hifi80sman said:


> The listing says there are touch controls, but you seem to suggest they are buttons ("pressing").  Is that the case?  I'm partial to touch controls because physical buttons often re-seat the 'buds and make re-adjustment necessary.


they are touch buttons.


----------



## howdy

hifi80sman said:


> Ordered these with a promo code (8L2NI5L3) that brings them down to $31.  Hopefully these will hit the spot!  I haven't had good luck with earbuds that have metal cases (except for the MW07), so going back to the ol' plastic case!


You may need to check yourself in to HA (headphones Anonymous). Lol. You must know your delivery people on a first name basis.


----------



## d3myz (Sep 3, 2019)

continuing my thoughts on the OFUSHO F16.
     
Listening to audiobooks I notice there's a lot of mid bass in male voices, so it's not really the absence of highs, they are a little rolled off at the top, It's more that there is a lot of low and mid mid bass.
Is there a name for the sound when you can hear the bass reverberating in the shell? like when you speak into a cup. because these F16's sound like that when i'm listening to an audio book at 60%. In music the snare drums on tracks have decent depth and good presence in the mix, but they are missing some attack at the top that make them sound really exciting. Same with chunky distorted guitars, plenty of powerful low end, but the attack is missing. I listened to a bunch of 311 songs from several albums. the drummer uses a piccolo snare which is famously bright, full of attack and has a signature piccolo ring. The bass is mixed is typically very low. I can actually hear more of the finger picking mid bass tones and less sub bass , the ring of the snare is there but it's missing that "CRACK" on tracks like Down and Beautiful Disaster and Come Original. Also, listened to the new Tool Album and All the high end is just veiled especially Danny's insane tom work. There is some noticeable mid bass bleed during the heavier parts. This just pisses me off, they are so close to being sensational.

 Fit:  These buds are BIG, they stick out of my ears. I was able to remove the rubber housing and the stabilizer, but it doesn't help much. The 2200mah case is pretty nice, but heavy. Probably 25% bigger than the T5 case. it's small for the large battery capacity, but you can't turn these damn things off w/o putting them in the case. Who the hell wants to carry a large around with them? I typically just carry my buds behind my ears or in my pocket all day.

connection: I had some weird connection issues when i answered a call, the headphones disconnected, then went into pairing mode, then connected.The right ear was audible on the call and then a couple seconds later the left ear kicked. As far ask pairing the F16 auto connects to my devices quickly and I haven't experienced any pairing issues etc. Funny, i've had similar problems with my T5 which also has the same chipset.

All in all, The more I listened to these, the more I enjoyed them. The low end of these are REALLY good, they are well built, but they are just to bulky and muddy for my taste and it's a real struggle to get them to fit comfortably. I prefer the sparkle of the T5 and the T3 and compared to these and 359's they sound veiled in the upper mids and treble. Give me the Anbes 359 ALL DAY.
For $35 they are a great deal. Aptx, ipx7, volume control and voice assistant especially if you have other devices you want to charge with the large case. I've been using Tidal masters to test out headphones lately and I can honestly tell the difference in sound quality especially via aptx. tidal desktop has an exclusive mode that only uses the sound output for Tidal, pretty cool.


----------



## d3myz

howdy said:


> You may need to check yourself in to HA (headphones Anonymous). Lol. You must know your delivery people on a first name basis.


I think I need to go too! I have 14 pair now  Glad my wife doesn't know how many I have.


----------



## hifi80sman

d3myz said:


> I think I need to go too! I have 14 pair now  Glad my wife doesn't know how many I have.


14?!  That's it?!  Get with the program, soldier!

Nice impressions on the OFUSHO F16.  Sounds like a good starter pair and a nice gift for someone that hasn't gone TWS yet.


----------



## actorlife (Sep 3, 2019)

Shanling TWS NEWS:
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.gizmochina.com/2019/08/08/shanling-mtw100-truly-wireless-earbuds-presale-kicks-off/?amp
Review kinda of coming:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/four-new-shanling-products-announced.914285/#post-15165676


----------



## hifi80sman

actorlife said:


> Shanling TWS NEWS:
> https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.gizmochina.com/2019/08/08/shanling-mtw100-truly-wireless-earbuds-presale-kicks-off/?amp
> Review kinda of coming:
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/four-new-shanling-products-announced.914285/#post-15165676


Look nice and a touch control version of the Mifo O5 with a USB-C case.  Price seems decent too.  Looks like they've gone Realtek or Airoha for the SoC (which I personally don't mind, but I know some want aptX).


----------



## david8613

actorlife said:


> Holy moly that is the apposite of what others have said. Maybe they need break in with music for a couple of days. Have you tried other tips?


Ofusho is sending another pair of f16 to me the first pair had pairing problems. I would like to hear more of your impressions especially compared to traya t3 and anbes 359 those are my favs now. What other tw would be a step up?


----------



## actorlife (Sep 3, 2019)

david8613 said:


> Ofusho is sending another pair of f16 to me the first pair had pairing problems. I would like to hear more of your impressions especially compared to traya t3 and anbes 359 those are my favs now. What other tw would be a step up?


Hopefully this week I'll get the F16 and the Tranya B530. I think a step up would be the Tevis TWS($90), which I'm hoping the  OFUSHO could be in the same league. Has pretty much the same features except the battery is 10hrs. I really hope I like the OFUSHO or they are going back. If I get a connection issues I'd give it another chance and reorder them again. I don't own the Tranya T3. Anbes 359 is still my all time favorite TWS. Honorable mention to Alterola IE600 and  Hopshoop W1.


----------



## Caipirina (Sep 3, 2019)

Hanzilein said:


> So, Zagzog TWS, Mpow T5, the UFO and the QCY T1 arrived.
> First thoughts (this is all on 80%+ volume lol and without EQ):
> Zagzog goes back. Can't listen because of very harsh highs, even using equalizer doesn't help.



Wow, never noticed harsh highs on my Zagzog ... need to check again .. maybe we listen to very different music? I never listen to anything with shrubby guitars, something I could imagine that would reveal harsh highs more ... will double check ...

Edit: ok, I blame my old ears, or our possibly very different taste in music ... ooooorrrr that we received differently tuned units ... I do NOT have any 'harsh highs'. They sound detailed and 'sparkly' to me ... but maybe send my some example track via YT link with example passage ...


----------



## jasonb

Call me crazy, but I think I could seriously be ok if the Galaxy Buds were my only headphones. On the "clear" EQ setting they sound that good. Never thought I'd say this about anything Bluetooth, but here I am at home with an HD650 within arms reach and I have the Galaxy Buds in my ears instead of the HD650 over my ears. I'm not saying they are better than an HD650, but they are great and super convenient.


----------



## Caipirina (Sep 4, 2019)

hifi80sman said:


> Ordered these with a promo code (8L2NI5L3) that brings them down to $31.  Hopefully these will hit the spot!  I haven't had good luck with earbuds that have metal cases (except for the MW07), so going back to the ol' plastic case!




Curse you and your speedy Amazon delivery 

I have several items in the pipeline from last week's sale that left 'country of origin' on 8/29 ... and still have not made landfall ... oh, the agony

Also realizing that daily check up on tracking info does not seem to expedite shipping ... sigh ...

Curious which one will be here first


----------



## chinmie

jasonb said:


> Call me crazy, but I think I could seriously be ok if the Galaxy Buds were my only headphones. On the "clear" EQ setting they sound that good. Never thought I'd say this about anything Bluetooth, but here I am at home with an HD650 within arms reach and I have the Galaxy Buds in my ears instead of the HD650 over my ears. I'm not saying they are better than an HD650, but they are great and super convenient.



not crazy at all. i myself felt a bit guilty of neglecting my wired earphones and headphones lately. and I'm slowly converting some of my wired iem into a true wireless solutions as a middle ground


----------



## FYLegend

Anyone going for SoundPeats TrueEngine2? is 59$ early bird "half price" on Kickstarter coughcoughcough


----------



## d3myz (Sep 4, 2019)

hifi80sman said:


> 14?!  That's it?!  Get with the program, soldier!
> 
> Nice impressions on the OFUSHO F16.  Sounds like a good starter pair and a nice gift for someone that hasn't gone TWS yet.


Haha, I’ll do better. And thanks. Yea, I’d agree with that. I didn’t play with the EQ at all as Tidal to my knowledge doesn’t have one, but maybe I’ll bump up the highs in Spotify and see how it sounds. I know some of the guys in here are using BT dacs/amps do you know of any reasonably priced units with good performance?


----------



## Caipirina

d3myz said:


> I think I need to go too! I have 14 pair now  Glad my wife doesn't know how many I have.



14? How quaint  

Oh, and another unknowing wife ... 

Your Ofusho impressions remind me of my Own Havit 93 experience, sent them back ....


----------



## chinmie

d3myz said:


> I think I need to go too! I have 14 pair now  Glad my wife doesn't know how many I have.





hifi80sman said:


> 14?!  That's it?!  Get with the program, soldier!





Caipirina said:


> 14? How quaint
> 
> Oh, and another unknowing wife ...



sometimes i show this thread to my wife... so she knows that my collections are like puddles compared to the other's swimming pools (and on rare occasion, there are ones that have the whole ocean) so she would let me buy more


----------



## Caipirina (Sep 4, 2019)

Looks like the QCY T3 will be the first to arrive, got notification that they arrived in country this morning and they already left 'inward office' by 10PM ... let's see    

how exciting


----------



## Hanzilein (Sep 4, 2019)

Caipirina said:


> Wow, never noticed harsh highs on my Zagzog ... need to check again .. maybe we listen to very different music? I never listen to anything with shrubby guitars, something I could imagine that would reveal harsh highs more ... will double check ...
> 
> Edit: ok, I blame my old ears, or our possibly very different taste in music ... ooooorrrr that we received differently tuned units ... I do NOT have any 'harsh highs'. They sound detailed and 'sparkly' to me ... but maybe send my some example track via YT link with example passage ...



I am in my early twenties and my ears are generally a bit sensitive to highs. But over 70-75% volume on my phone, "S" and "T" sounds are harsh and/ or sharp. I can hear it in every electric music song, female voices and also cymbals in rock songs aren't fun.


----------



## Caipirina

Hanzilein said:


> I am in my early twenties and *my eyes are generally a bit sensitive *to highs. But over 70-75% volume on my phone, "S" and "T" sounds are harsh and/ or sharp. I can hear it in every electric music song, female voices and also cymbals in rock songs aren't fun.



OMG, if you stick those TWS into your EYES!!!! No wonder you get a slight harshness


----------



## tomscy2000

Apparently the initial batch of 100 of @FiiO 's spinoff brand Jade Audio's first true wireless earphones the EW1 sold out in 56 seconds in China. Impressive.


----------



## Hanzilein

Caipirina said:


> OMG, if you stick those TWS into your EYES!!!! No wonder you get a slight harshness


Ears of course


----------



## d3myz

Caipirina said:


> 14? How quaint
> 
> Oh, and another unknowing wife ...
> 
> Your Ofusho impressions remind me of my Own Havit 93 experience, sent them back ....


, makes sense. they are essentially the same unit right? I did notice, on the havit site they are $40 and it says they support AAC and on Aliexpress they are $27 and it says SBC, so no aptx on the havit?  
It's too bad I wanted to love them, but they really need a bump in the highs and to not feel like putting a small warship in my ears.


----------



## clerkpalmer

WesennTony said:


> Thanks for the suggestion. That's good to know. They're easier to drive, yes, but I'm not sure if it's the cable or the earbuds themselves. The ultra thin cable with W60 is much less demanding than other cables, definitely than the KPE stock cable . I could not find the sensitivity value of KPE so hard to compare. I already ordered the BT20S so I'll see how they go first. Besides BT20S connect to my LG v30 automatically with AptX, which is a plus for me. I always doubt that the AAC in V30 is inferior, which is apparent with my Earin M2, so anything default to AptX is welcome.



Picked up a TFZ no 3 to pair with my bt20s. I had been eying thr moondrop Kansas but went with the tfz based on a recommendation that the kansas required more power  The sound is nice but there is a lot of hiss. Much more than my zs7.  I tried switching over to my BT10 but the hiss was about the same.  Not super noticeable when music is playing but a little disappointing. I guess that's the tradeoff for sensitive iems?


----------



## actorlife

Caipirina said:


> Wow, never noticed harsh highs on my Zagzog ... need to check again .. maybe we listen to very different music? I never listen to anything with shrubby guitars, something I could imagine that would reveal harsh highs more ... will double check ...
> 
> Edit: ok, I blame my old ears, or our possibly very different taste in music ... ooooorrrr that we received differently tuned units ... I do NOT have any 'harsh highs'. They sound detailed and 'sparkly' to me ... but maybe send my some example track via YT link with example passage ...


I might like those zigzambop any links better be cheap.


----------



## actorlife

actorlife said:


> OFUSHO F16 finally shipped I guess they will be here sometime this Wed/Thur. The price went up to $47.
> The Tranya B530 should be here tomorrow hopefully.


Looks like they will both be here tonight according to amazon. F yeah. Rahahahaha bout time.


----------



## Caipirina (Sep 4, 2019)

actorlife said:


> I might like those zigzambop any links better be cheap.



Getting them for you might be the issue here, only found them on Amazon DE so far, but there is now a lookalike on Aliexpress, use image search or look for BlueWow TWS ... range from 30-50-ish $ ... I really like 'em

Cheapest offer on AliX from a 93% store


----------



## webvan

Got the WF-1000xm3 yesterday, still testing, not an easy fit as others have said...

@Caipirina - wow that's a lot mileage you're putting in as a runner, I only ever make it to 100k when I'm preparing a marathon, it's more like 50k the rest of the time...when I avoid injuries. My goto TWS for running is the X12 Pro, the only one I've found that doesn't have that terrible "thumping" on each stride thanks to its earbud design.

Oh I pulled out the T8 the other day and they did work ok but I found battery life  to be terrible, maybe 2 hours ?


----------



## Caipirina

webvan said:


> Got the WF-1000xm3 yesterday, still testing, not an easy fit as others have said...
> 
> @Caipirina - wow that's a lot mileage you're putting in as a runner, I only ever make it to 100k when I'm preparing a marathon, it's more like 50k the rest of the time...when I avoid injuries. My goto TWS for running is the X12 Pro, the only one I've found that doesn't have that terrible "thumping" on each stride thanks to its earbud design.
> 
> Oh I pulled out the T8 the other day and they did work ok but I found battery life  to be terrible, maybe 2 hours ?



Have to admit that I never considered those earbud style TWS for running as I don't feel they sit securely enough for motion (also, I run in very humid conditions and I don't think neither my Lezii X12 nor those T8 have any kind of IPX rating) ... that thumping noise seems to vary from bud to bud .. some have those air vent holes which lets more outside sound in, but also helps with that thump ... but in general I manage to ignore that sound after a mile ... it's not like I am listening to classical music while running.


----------



## Darkestred

05stisilver said:


> Does anyone have any insight or thoughts on the Advanced M5-tws releasing tomorrow? Do they actually make any good sounding iems? I have heard of them but have always thought of them as a lower/low mid tier type of company. But I like the design of these earbuds.



I think if you go with their higher priced offerings like the M5 series - they are a solid high mid-range entry.  I own an M5-1D in custom.  I think its a very good IEM considering its price-point and could be excellent if the treble was better.  I have the Model X that i got for free.  I was pleasantly surprised by it.  Warm, nice bass, sounds full but does have a little congestion in the mix.  Okish soundstage.


----------



## actorlife

Caipirina said:


> Getting them for you might be the issue here, only found them on Amazon DE so far, but there is now a lookalike on Aliexpress, use image search or look for BlueWow TWS ... range from 30-50-ish $ ... I really like 'em
> 
> Cheapest offer on AliX from a 93% store


I was cursing you out when I saw $29. I thought they were $14. Dang those are BA so they are worth it. Thanks C. Battery is just ok at 5hrs. Maybe I can find them on ebay. Budget still intact, but hoping for some prospects this week. Wish me luck everybody. Zoinks.


----------



## webvan

What's special about these BlueWows ?



Caipirina said:


> Have to admit that I never considered those earbud style TWS for running as I don't feel they sit securely enough for motion (also, I run in very humid conditions and I don't think neither my Lezii X12 nor those T8 have any kind of IPX rating) ... that thumping noise seems to vary from bud to bud .. some have those air vent holes which lets more outside sound in, but also helps with that thump ... but in general I manage to ignore that sound after a mile ... it's not like I am listening to classical music while running.



I never lost the X12 but I added the little foamy thing for improved bass and comfort (made in opening to preserve clarity). They get pretty drenched with the running but since they don't seal it doesn't seem the sweat gets inside, unlike with others I tried last year and that started to sound "funny"  The thumping just drives me crazy with all normal IEMs, might have to try again, which one do you prefer for running ?


----------



## Caipirina

actorlife said:


> I was cursing you out when I saw $29. I thought they were $14. Dang those are BA so they are worth it. Thanks C. Battery is just ok at 5hrs. Maybe I can find them on ebay. Budget still intact, but hoping for some prospects this week. Wish me luck everybody. Zoinks.



Where does it say BA ??? All I see is 6mm copper 'horn'


----------



## Caipirina

webvan said:


> What's special about these BlueWows ?
> 
> 
> 
> I never lost the X12 but I added the little foamy thing for improved bass and comfort (made in opening to preserve clarity). They get pretty drenched with the running but since they don't seal it doesn't seem the sweat gets inside, unlike with others I tried last year and that started to sound "funny"  The thumping just drives me crazy with all normal IEMs, might have to try again, which one do you prefer for running ?



A while ago I bought something called ZagZog on amazon.de and likened them to the Tranya T3 ... now people are asking about them and I found them under the name BlueWow on AliX ... I still like them quite some and they are in rotation for running as well as the Mpow, those Tranya, the Anbes 359 ... the Syllable 101 are doing well as well ..  I try to give most of my TWS a fair shake, have not tried any of my stem based ones.

It seems though the Anbes are getting picked more often


----------



## actorlife

Caipirina said:


> Where does it say BA ??? All I see is 6mm copper 'horn'


In the Ali link specs section it says BA. 

I found them on amazon and they are Graphene drivers on there:
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07P8LC6VB/ref=cm_sw_r_sms_apa_i_1i9BDbVP68BRN


----------



## Caipirina (Sep 4, 2019)

actorlife said:


> In the Ali link specs section it says BA.
> 
> I found them on amazon and they are Graphene drivers on there:
> https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07P8LC6VB/ref=cm_sw_r_sms_apa_i_1i9BDbVP68BRN



I never trust that Spec section 

Good you found on amazon .. now you can try and send back 

(Oh, they look shiny in red!!! I did not have the red option! )


----------



## actorlife (Sep 4, 2019)

actorlife said:


> Looks like they will both be here tonight according to amazon. F yeah. Rahahahaha bout time.


Just got the delivery of the F16. Now to open box. Yippee. Rah.
Edit. Pics. More later


----------



## d3myz

actorlife said:


> Just got the delivery of the F16. Now to open box. Yippee. Rah.
> Edit. Pics. More later


I am VERY interested to hear your impressions.


----------



## actorlife

d3myz said:


> I am VERY interested to hear your impressions.


I'm charging them right now cause wanna get the full 8hrs to run some music. I'm so excited. Will try at 12:30pm in 45 min.


----------



## d3myz (Sep 4, 2019)

I know this was asked previously, but now that the campaign has launched and these TWS's are going to be $129 early bird special on indiegogo, i'd like to hear everyone's thoughts. https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/m5-tws-the-pinnacle-of-true-wireless-earbuds#/

The three dealbreakers for me are 1. price 2. no volume control (are you kidding me?) 3. No Power off w/o case.

Edit: As mentioned before, these look like a re-branded Ancreu T2 from Alibaba. Specs are the same except on Alibaba it says the Ancreu's have volume and voice assistant, is this just an oversight on Advanced's part? 

https://www.alibaba.com/product-det...m=a2700.wholesale.pronpeci14.2.6e6b12185PtFhM


----------



## clerkpalmer

d3myz said:


> I know this was asked previously, but now that the campaign has launched and these TWS's are going to be $129 early bird special on indiegogo, i'd like to hear everyone's thoughts. https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/m5-tws-the-pinnacle-of-true-wireless-earbuds#/
> 
> The three dealbreakers for me are 1. price 2. no volume control (are you kidding me?) 3. No Power off w/o case.
> 
> ...



I'm on the fence. 129 is pricey but advanced makes good stuff. I wouldn't assume the driver and tuning are the same but I could be wrong. I think i will pass on these for now.  I'd need to hear reviews or understand the sq improvements before going in. The ad page seems to focus on the fit and 3d printed shells with not much about sq. I think they will have a hard time selling these at full retail. That's a highly competitive price bracket.


----------



## WesennTony

clerkpalmer said:


> Picked up a TFZ no 3 to pair with my bt20s. I had been eying thr moondrop Kansas but went with the tfz based on a recommendation that the kansas required more power  The sound is nice but there is a lot of hiss. Much more than my zs7.  I tried switching over to my BT10 but the hiss was about the same.  Not super noticeable when music is playing but a little disappointing. I guess that's the tradeoff for sensitive iems?


Is the hiss only related to sensitivity or also to impedance? I googled that no 3 has sensitivity of 108db while KPE has 110. I notice the hiss in KPE but not annoying when playing music. When switching apps or browsing with my phone, the hiss becomes more apparent. Also the Uapp seems to do a better job cleaning some background noise than Neutron. 
I don't find KPE power hungry. Usually 50% volume in my phone.


----------



## mikp

d3myz said:


> I know this was asked previously, but now that the campaign has launched and these TWS's are going to be $129 early bird special on indiegogo, i'd like to hear everyone's thoughts. https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/m5-tws-the-pinnacle-of-true-wireless-earbuds#/
> 
> The three dealbreakers for me are 1. price 2. no volume control (are you kidding me?) 3. No Power off w/o case.
> 
> ...



yup, alibaba. 

You forgot to add its on indiegogo with low goal


----------



## clerkpalmer

WesennTony said:


> Is the hiss only related to sensitivity or also to impedance? I googled that no 3 has sensitivity of 108db while KPE has 110. I notice the hiss in KPE but not annoying when playing music. When switching apps or browsing with my phone, the hiss becomes more apparent. Also the Uapp seems to do a better job cleaning some background noise than Neutron.
> I don't find KPE power hungry. Usually 50% volume in my phone.


Probably impedance.  I'll try the UAPP and see if results improve.  I was testing on Tidal and Apple Music.


----------



## d3myz

mikp said:


> yup, alibaba.
> 
> You forgot to add its on indiegogo with low goal


Huh? Did you not see the beginning of my comment and the indiegogo link?


----------



## Mouseman

d3myz said:


> I know this was asked previously, but now that the campaign has launched and these TWS's are going to be $129 early bird special on indiegogo, i'd like to hear everyone's thoughts. https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/m5-tws-the-pinnacle-of-true-wireless-earbuds#/
> 
> The three dealbreakers for me are 1. price 2. no volume control (are you kidding me?) 3. No Power off w/o case.
> 
> ...


Also no multipoint, and the left is the master with no way to switch. I'm not sure - are they aiming for people who don't have any other TWS?


----------



## mikp

d3myz said:


> Huh? Did you not see the beginning of my comment and the indiegogo link?



you should have added that as a minus..

https://www.alibaba.com/product-det...galleryofferlist.normalList.73.41962e32kBNtAN


----------



## d3myz

Mouseman said:


> Also no multipoint, and the left is the master with no way to switch. I'm not sure - are they aiming for people who don't have any other TWS?


I guess I don't understand why not having multipoint would be a downside, but I only use my TWS' on one device at a time. And as far as switching the master, why is that an issue? I don't think I own any TWS' that allow you to switch the master, do these not run in mono mode?


----------



## d3myz (Sep 4, 2019)

mikp said:


> you should have added that as a minus..
> 
> https://www.alibaba.com/product-det...galleryofferlist.normalList.73.41962e32kBNtAN


I have no idea what you're saying.


----------



## d3myz (Sep 4, 2019)

I decided to take the plunge, mostly so I could comment. Advanced shut down their DieHards page today and their FB chat isn't available. I'm not sure what's going on over there, but they didn't seem happy with my question.


----------



## actorlife (Sep 4, 2019)

Testing the F16 on my tablet Sony Experia Z2 and it recognized *aptx* instantly whoa who knew.  I'm watching a movie on Prime video. It's *crystal clear *with dialog and has a *nice soundstage* with background sound just as clear. Dunno they kind of give you a surround sound type of effect. Holy moly I'm digging them do far.  *Latency is bad *though and dialog is not synced. *Edit* restarted the Z2 sych is perfect now on Prime/Netflix hooray.  Connection is great so far no breakups. 50% volume. RoRo the Anbes 359 may be dethroned. They protrude a bit out my ear. They are a bit bigger than my other TWS, but not too bad. I don't know fellas I might have gotten a good batch. I Will try music after the movie.


----------



## Mouseman

d3myz said:


> I guess I don't understand why not having multipoint would be a downside, but I only use my TWS' on one device at a time. And as far as switching the master, why is that an issue? I don't think I own any TWS' that allow you to switch the master, do these not run in mono mode?


I'm not sure if they run in mono - the comments don't come out and say it, you think it would be listed in the features. Most of my other ones can be paired separately,since I don't always want them in the same ear. I do use multipoint, but it's not a deal breaker. It's nice to not have to re-pair when I go from phone to R3 or iPad.  But I'm not going to buy at this price point, so it doesn't really matter.


----------



## mikp

d3myz said:


> I decided to take the plunge, mostly so I could comment. Advanced shut down their DieHards page today and their FB chat isn't available. I'm not sure what's going on over there, but they didn't seem happy with my question.




ouch..someone got hurt. If im correct those buds have been on alibaba for a couple of months by now.


----------



## d3myz (Sep 4, 2019)

Mouseman said:


> I'm not sure if they run in mono - the comments don't come out and say it, you think it would be listed in the features. Most of my other ones can be paired separately,since I don't always want them in the same ear. I do use multipoint, but it's not a deal breaker. It's nice to not have to re-pair when I go from phone to R3 or iPad.  But I'm not going to buy at this price point, so it doesn't really matter.


Good Point. I've invited them to the thread.


----------



## david8613

actorlife said:


> Testing the F16 on my tablet Sony Experia Z2 and it recognized *aptx* instantly whoa who knew.  I'm watching a movie on Prime video. It's *crystal clear *with dialog and has a *nice soundstage* with background sound just as clear. Holy moly I'm digging them do far.  *Latency is bad *though and dialog is not synced. *Edit* restarted the Z2 sych is perfect now on Prime/Netflix hooray.  Connection is great so far no breakups. 50% volume. They protrude a bit out my ear. They are a bit bigger than my other TWS, but not too bad. Will try music after the movie.



sounds good! keep us posted. my replacement are waiting at home. hopefully these work this time.


----------



## ticoss

tomscy2000 said:


> Apparently the initial batch of 100 of @FiiO 's spinoff brand Jade Audio's first true wireless earphones the EW1 sold out in 56 seconds in China. Impressive.


They are still available the aliexpress store with a special price  :
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000144336824.html?spm=a2g0s.8937460.0.0.72612e0esMncew


----------



## d3myz (Sep 4, 2019)

mikp said:


> ouch..someone got hurt. If im correct those buds have been on alibaba for a couple of months by now.


Right!?


----------



## clerkpalmer

mikp said:


> ouch..someone got hurt. If im correct those buds have been on alibaba for a couple of months by now.



I have no bone to pick with Advanced but unless they live under a rock, they are aware of this thread.  They probably should step up and post something here addressing the elephant in the room for purposes of transparency and consumer confidence.  I guess we shall see.  Depending on the level of similarity between the 2, it may be a tricky area to step into.


----------



## mikp

yes, after a couple of months on alibaba they should have been ready for a comment.
Either resell, they stole our design or ours have the magic tuning or different .....


----------



## d3myz

clerkpalmer said:


> I have no bone to pick with Advanced but unless they live under a rock, they are aware of this thread.  They probably should step up and post something here addressing the elephant in the room for purposes of transparency and consumer confidence.  I guess we shall see.  Depending on the level of similarity between the 2, it may be a tricky area to step into.


That's a great idea, I think i'll invite them.


----------



## webvan (Sep 4, 2019)

d3myz said:


> I know this was asked previously, but now that the campaign has launched and these TWS's are going to be $129 early bird special on indiegogo, i'd like to hear everyone's thoughts. https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/m5-tws-the-pinnacle-of-true-wireless-earbuds#/
> 
> The three dealbreakers for me are 1. price 2. no volume control (are you kidding me?) 3. No Power off w/o case.
> 
> ...



They have posted a rather cryptic answer on their indigogo page :



> Q : Hello, I noticed there is no mention of volume control or voice assistant even though the QCC3020 supports this functionality. Was this just an oversight on the spec sheet or were these features removed to gain battery life? Also, how do these differ than the Ancreau T2? They appear identical although i’m sure advanced’s tuning and QA is going to be much better. The T2 does have volume controls and voice assistant, 10 hour call time and an 8 hour music playing time. etc.
> 
> A : 1 hour ago - Project Owner
> Hi David, the product you mentioned is not what is available in the market, nor the spec description. In fact, we have fully co-developed this product with our partner factory and we are using both platforms - IGG for B2C and the other for B2B. We do not wish nor intend to disclose much more information on this here as it's a public comment space for this campaign. If you are interested to know more, you are welcome to contact us via email.



The Ancreau T2 are not on AliExpress, right ?

EDIT - ok I see they are the Sunline T2 on AE for $50


----------



## d3myz

mikp said:


> yes, after a couple of months on alibaba they should have been ready for a comment.
> Either resell, they stole our design or ours have the magic tuning or different .....


Excellent point and from you last link, I saw that they are being re-branded as the Sunline T2 and they are $50 a pop. I think i'll order a sample and check them out.


webvan said:


> They have posted a rather cryptic answer on their indigogo page :


I'm the one who asked the question.  I also e-mailed them, we'll see what they say.


----------



## webvan

"I saw that they are being re-branded as the Sunline T2 and they are $50 a pop"

Can't seem to find them on AliExpress, even with an image search. Where did you see them for $50 ?


----------



## Caipirina

ticoss said:


> They are still available the aliexpress store with a special price  :
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000144336824.html=a2g0s.8937460.0.0.72612e0esMncew


What am I missing? Sarcasm?  what’s special about the buds and that price?


----------



## d3myz

webvan said:


> "I saw that they are being re-branded as the Sunline T2 and they are $50 a pop"
> 
> Can't seem to find them on AliExpress, even with an image search. Where did you see them for $50 ?


Not on AliExpress, Alibaba. 

https://www.alibaba.com/product-det...galleryofferlist.normalList.73.41962e32kBNtAN


----------



## actorlife (Sep 4, 2019)

actorlife said:


> Testing the F16 on my tablet Sony Experia Z2 and it recognized *aptx* instantly whoa who knew.  I'm watching a movie on Prime video. It's *crystal clear *with dialog and has a *nice soundstage* with background sound just as clear. Dunno they kind of give you a surround sound type of effect. Holy moly I'm digging them do far.  *Latency is bad *though and dialog is not synced. *Edit* restarted the Z2 sych is perfect now on Prime/Netflix hooray.  Connection is great so far no breakups. 50% volume. RoRo the Anbes 359 may be dethroned. They protrude a bit out my ear. They are a bit bigger than my other TWS, but not too bad. I don't know fellas I might have gotten a good batch. I Will try music after the movie.



Cayin N3 with aptx on. Music is clear, although I'll agree with d3myz they are a tiny bit rolled off, but not enough for me to return them, yet. Bass is tight with a good deep rumble when needed and not boomy. Mids are a bit rolled off as well. I haven't tried other tips yet. I think with other tips they will bring more clear details, hopefully. Gotta say these are amazing with movies so darn clear. Gonna play music all day on them to see if they open up some and look for some tips. I really like them though and so far are a keeper. I'll return later tonight and give more thoughts. I'll tell this these are miles ahead of the Syllables S101 with aptx. The F16 are way clearer. More soon. ✌️


----------



## Cryu

Picked up the jabra active 65t last night. They sound fine I guess, highs sound slightly muddled to me, but I can live with that. Unfortunately they make my ears hurt after a short while because they're too big so they'll have to go back. Any other non chi-fi recommendations that aren't Marley's? Budget of about 200 I guess.


----------



## d3myz

Ok, so this is the wrong thread for this, but related. I'm interested in a BT DAC/Music player like the Cayin, but with BT 5.0. Something around the $100-150 price range with great perf. for the price. Can anyone point me in the right direction?


----------



## actorlife

d3myz said:


> Ok, so this is the wrong thread for this, but related. I'm interested in a BT DAC/Music player like the Cayin, but with BT 5.0. Something around the $100-150 price range with great perf. for the price. Can anyone point me in the right direction?


Check here: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/obscure-chinese-daps.720512/page-427


----------



## d3myz

actorlife said:


> Check here: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/obscure-chinese-daps.720512/page-427


Awesome, thanks. I found an article online and was looking at some. Do you have any experience with any of these? https://avprogear.com/top-10-best-portable-music-players-from-entry-level-to-mid-fi/


----------



## Darkestred

Mouseman said:


> I'm interested to see the reviews, but I have some of their other gear and I'm not a huge fan of their house sound. It seems like they're going to be rather expensive ($129 super early bird), so hopefully they can live up to the price tag.  No volume control has been confirmed, and the case looks a lot like the KZ metal one but looks much bigger. So probably a pass for me.
> 
> Unless someone comes up with a fantastic sound and battery life, I'm happy with relatively inexpensive buds I have - KZ, Mpow and Tranyas are plenty good for me.



I don't mean to take this off-topic (maybe) but how did you nail the "secret" and super early bird price?  They were hush hush in the telegram and facebook.


----------



## d3myz (Sep 4, 2019)

Darkestred said:


> I don't mean to take this off-topic (maybe) but how did you nail the "secret" and super early bird price?  They were hush hush in the telegram and facebook.



I literally signed up for 2 different e-mail account notifications and Joined Advanced Diehards on FB. Diehards went down this morning and I didn't receive jack, I just checked indiegogo this morning at like 8 Mountain and there were like 48 left.


----------



## hifi80sman

d3myz said:


> Excellent point and from you last link, I saw that they are being re-branded as the Sunline T2 and they are $50 a pop. I think i'll order a sample and check them out.
> 
> I'm the one who asked the question.  I also e-mailed them, we'll see what they say.


You guys know, there are tons of stuff that look the same, but the internals are different.  Obviously, nobody wants to admit there was an ODM and they are selecting from an assortment of pre-made/pre-designed off-the-shelf components to include in their product.  Unless you're Sennheiser, Sony, etc., you probably don't have your own factory and contract out instead.  Their contract with the ODM is likely region exclusive for a given period of time (similar to a pharmaceutical patent for a certain number of years until it can go generic), which is why their reply mentioned market availability (meaning outside Asia, etc.).


----------



## Inear

I got a response from Adv-sound regarding the new M5-TWS. I guess they use ODM to manufacture a design, but I believe the m5 should probably be superior to than what is found on Alibaba.



> Thanks for your inquiry.  To answer your question, we have co-developed M5-TWS with our factory partner.  There are several suppliers involved in the development of M5-TWS, the 3D-printing, acoustic tuning, charging case and battery.  What you see on Alibaba listing is an overall, early specification of the prototype that the factory partner as “group” try to market to B2B market.  This is being orchestrated at the same time as we are marketing B2C through Indiegogo.  True Wireless Earbud development takes a lot of time, capital and competent team to deliver at its highest level which we aim our M5-TWS to be.  What appears as “ANCREU” is not a brand, but sellers having our partner factory sample unit listed for B2B marketing - its listed specifications are not accurate because they do not exist in a proper product planning.
> 
> We’ve been a part of significant development in product design, acoustic tuning, firmware development and UX.  It simply cannot be painted in a single broad stroke as Alibaba rebrand, and this is the reason why we do not publicly partake in the discussion.
> 
> We hope this answers your question.


----------



## actorlife (Sep 4, 2019)

HURRY Lightning sale 15 min left CLIPS on TWS 8hr battery $39
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07R6GGC65/ref=cm_sw_r_sms_apa_i_H.aCDbPEMWZCD


----------



## d3myz

Inear said:


> I got a response from Adv-sound regarding the new M5-TWS. I guess they use ODM to manufacture a design, but I believe the m5 should probably be superior to than what is found on Alibaba.


I just got a response from them as well. I invited them to the thread.


----------



## d3myz

actorlife said:


> HURRY Lightning sale 15 min left CLIPS on TWS 8hr battery $39
> https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07R6GGC65/ref=cm_sw_r_sms_apa_i_H.aCDbPEMWZCD


Gross, Bro. just Gross.


----------



## actorlife (Sep 4, 2019)

d3myz said:


> Awesome, thanks. I found an article online and was looking at some. Do you have any experience with any of these? https://avprogear.com/top-10-best-portable-music-players-from-entry-level-to-mid-fi/


I don't but if I had a choice I'd get the Cowon(SQ is the best I've heard besides the Cayin. They are bit pricey, but worth it IMHO) or Shanling(Always read they have top notch SQ). Hidizs is OK, but prefer the Cayin more. If I were you I'd get the Cayin N3. BT integration is top notch, especially with my Anbes TWS.


----------



## clerkpalmer

hifi80sman said:


> You guys know, there are tons of stuff that look the same, but the internals are different.  Obviously, nobody wants to admit there was an ODM and they are selecting from an assortment of pre-made/pre-designed off-the-shelf components to include in their product.  Unless you're Sennheiser, Sony, etc., you probably don't have your own factory and contract out instead.  Their contract with the ODM is likely region exclusive for a given period of time (similar to a pharmaceutical patent for a certain number of years until it can go generic), which is why their reply mentioned market availability (meaning outside Asia, etc.).



This is probably correct but in the modern world, with the interweb and all, we as customers need full transparency.  Presumably, they sourced the shell and the chipset because as you point out there are a small company, and hopefully they did their magic to improve the SQ.  This allows a small company like Advanced to bring a product to market quickly.  In any event, assuming that's the case and giving Advanced the benefit of the doubt (which we should), they should just say so.


----------



## actorlife

d3myz said:


> Gross, Bro. just Gross.


I know some members here like them. I'm not a fan of clip on though.


----------



## clerkpalmer

d3myz said:


> Gross, Bro. just Gross.


LOL.  My immediate reaction as well.  Rubbish.


----------



## d3myz

clerkpalmer said:


> LOL.  My immediate reaction as well.  Rubbish.


I'm dying.


----------



## actorlife

d3myz said:


> I'm dying.


And price back to $53 rahahahaha.


----------



## d3myz

Advanced's Reply.


----------



## hifi80sman

d3myz said:


> Advanced's Reply.


Got to give them credit for transparency, but not sure I completely buy the B2B angle 100%.  Certainly, even with the same pieces, things can come out quite differently, especially taking full ownership over things you can control.

This is certainly the most transparent of admissions I've seen from a company in a while.  Nevertheless, it's not necessarily going to impact sales, since we all know the score here anyways and your typical consumer is just going to buy Beats, yo.


----------



## clerkpalmer

hifi80sman said:


> Got to give them credit for transparency, but not sure I completely buy the B2B angle 100%.  Certainly, even with the same pieces, things can come out quite differently, especially taking full ownership over things you can control.
> 
> This is certainly the most transparent of admissions I've seen from a company in a while.  Nevertheless, it's not necessarily going to impact sales, since we all know the score here anyways and your typical consumer is just going to buy Beats, yo.



My Beats are exceptional actually.  Regarding Advanced, it sounds like a lot of words, but appears that the answer is generally, yes.  It still could very well be a nice product, no matter how sourced.  I will give them credit for addressing the question head on.  This is a tough crowd here on headfi.  Reminds me of the uproar created when the Mobius was released with a little background hiss.  People crucified them.  Talk about first world problems.


----------



## Mouseman

Darkestred said:


> I don't mean to take this off-topic (maybe) but how did you nail the "secret" and super early bird price?  They were hush hush in the telegram and facebook.


It was in the pinned link at the top of the page. I checked it earlier today.


----------



## d3myz

Well, I wrote them a nice reply and invited them to join the discussion and here's what Advanced said.

Dear d3myz,

Thank you for the detailed reply with regards to the Head-fi forums. 
Since we are not a sponsored vendor on the Head-fi board, we try not to intervene with their policy. 


Sincerely,
Customer Services

ADVANCED™
Designed for Musicians™


----------



## hifi80sman

clerkpalmer said:


> My Beats are exceptional actually.  Regarding Advanced, it sounds like a lot of words, but appears that the answer is generally, yes.  It still could very well be a nice product, no matter how sourced.  I will give them credit for addressing the question head on.  This is a tough crowd here on headfi.  Reminds me of the uproar created when the Mobius was released with a little background hiss.  People crucified them.  Talk about first world problems.


LOL, yeah, as I sit here with the Studio3 next to me that's actually good for business calls and looking like a flat out baller in the office (I have the Gray version).

First World issues, indeed  
"_Ermahgerd!  There's a piece of lint on the upper right coroner of my HDV 820!  White-glove on-site Customer Support within 30 minutes pu-lease!_"
- @clerkpalmer


----------



## clerkpalmer

hifi80sman said:


> LOL, yeah, as I sit here with the Studio3 next to me that's actually good for business calls and looking like a flat out baller in the office (I have the Gray version).
> 
> First World issues, indeed
> "_Ermahgerd!  There's a piece of lint on the upper right coroner of my HDV 820!  White-glove on-site Customer Support within 30 minutes pu-lease!_"
> - @clerkpalmer



Googling HDV 820 now...


----------



## d3myz

hifi80sman said:


> LOL, yeah, as I sit here with the Studio3 next to me that's actually good for business calls and looking like a flat out baller in the office (I have the Gray version).
> 
> First World issues, indeed
> "_Ermahgerd!  There's a piece of lint on the upper right coroner of my HDV 820!  White-glove on-site Customer Support within 30 minutes pu-lease!_"
> - @clerkpalmer


Should I do it? Should I?


----------



## hifi80sman

d3myz said:


> Should I do it? Should I?


Hmm, if they are truly in Like New condition, not bad.  I got mine new on a fluke clearance at Target for $104.  Totally happy with them at that price.


----------



## ticoss

Caipirina said:


> What am I missing? Sarcasm?  what’s special about the buds and that price?


Maybe a little one .
in fact, I doubt  that they sold 100 of them because it was the purpose of their promotion on Aliexpress, and here I still see them at this "special" price: https://www.facebook.com/JadeAudio.Co/posts/715475722237623


----------



## d3myz

Ran in to these today. HIFIMAN TWS600, they are $55 off at amazon.  Has anyone talked about them here?


----------



## hifi80sman

d3myz said:


> Ran in to these today. HIFIMAN TWS600, they are $55 off at amazon.  Has anyone talked about them here?


Yep.  https://www.head-fi.org/threads/hifiman-tws600-first-impression.910058/page-10#post-15111910


----------



## david8613

Because we love pics. Tranya t3 and ofusho f16.


----------



## clerkpalmer

Is there a way to force the bt20s to use AAC over aptx? When I switch in developer settings it stays in aptx. Tx.


----------



## bedlamite

Beats hate is tired.


----------



## turbobb (Sep 4, 2019)

Looks like Plantronics finally entered the fray with an in-ear TWS form factor (rather than the Beats clip style):
https://www.plantronics.com/us/en/product/backbeat-pro-5100

- BT5, ANC, IPX4, 5.8mm drivers, 6.5hrs (19hrs total), 5.8g each, on-ear controls (with vol.). No mention of codecs though (however they are known to use aptX including LL).

I'm a fan with their house sound but sadly have had really annoying experiences with the last two BT Headphones constantly clicking. Customer service was great but unfortunately the replacements suffered from the same issue. Tempted but already twice burnt... Any takers? 

EDIT: While I'm not a fan of this form factor, FWIW they also just released the new Backbeat Fit 3150:
https://www.plantronics.com/us/en/product/backbeat-fit-3150

& 3200:
https://www.plantronics.com/us/en/product/backbeat-fit-3200


----------



## clerkpalmer

turbobb said:


> Looks like Plantronics finally entered the fray with an in-ear TWS form factor (rather than the Beats clip style):
> https://www.plantronics.com/us/en/product/backbeat-pro-5100
> 
> - BT5, ANC, IPX4, 5.8mm drivers, 6.5hrs (19hrs total), 5.8g each, on-ear controls (with vol.). No mention of codecs though (however they are known to use aptX including LL).
> ...



Look decent but at 169, I'll pass.


----------



## hifi80sman

turbobb said:


> Looks like Plantronics finally entered the fray with an in-ear TWS form factor (rather than the Beats clip style):
> https://www.plantronics.com/us/en/product/backbeat-pro-5100
> 
> - BT5, ANC, IPX4, 5.8mm drivers, 6.5hrs (19hrs total), 5.8g each, on-ear controls (with vol.). No mention of codecs though (however they are known to use aptX including LL).
> ...


Hmm, those Plantronics 5100 look interesting.  Supposedly great call quality with 4 mics, wind reduction, app with touch control customization, IPX4.  Didn't see anything noting aptX, AAC, or USB-C, though.  Nice find!


----------



## FYLegend

Anybody tried Klipsch S1? Just saw them at London Drugs today for 99$CAD. Supports Qi charging but according to the renders, it uses MicroUSB which is disappointing because the T5 has Type-C. It says "Type-C charging case" on one of their pages (where it's bundled with a 5W charging pad) but unfortunately this is likely a a typo as the renders and manual show microUSB. (I'm hoping it's wrong, unlike that Lenovo HT10 fiasco).

https://www.klipsch.ca/products/s1-true-wireless-earphones-wireless-charging-pad

https://www.londondrugs.com/klipsch-t1-true-wireless-earphones---black---st1tw/L0642269.html


----------



## DigDub

And so... I have Monster's version of the Anbes 359. Sound quality is pretty much the same as the white box "Air" version. Volume is louder than the Air and it has volume control, the buttons on the Monster is stiffer.


----------



## clerkpalmer

FYLegend said:


> Anybody tried Klipsch S1? Just saw them at London Drugs today for 99$CAD. Supports Qi charging but according to the renders, it uses MicroUSB which is disappointing because the T5 has Type-C. It says "Type-C charging case" on one of their pages (where it's bundled with a 5W charging pad) but unfortunately this is likely a a typo as the renders and manual show microUSB. (I'm hoping it's wrong, unlike that Lenovo HT10 fiasco).
> 
> https://www.klipsch.ca/products/s1-true-wireless-earphones-wireless-charging-pad
> 
> https://www.londondrugs.com/klipsch-t1-true-wireless-earphones---black---st1tw/L0642269.html



I have never heard of those  They haven't even gotten the other ones to market.  Strange


----------



## chompchomps

FYLegend said:


> Anybody tried Klipsch S1? Just saw them at London Drugs today for 99$CAD. Supports Qi charging but according to the renders, it uses MicroUSB which is disappointing because the T5 has Type-C. It says "Type-C charging case" on one of their pages (where it's bundled with a 5W charging pad) but unfortunately this is likely a a typo as the renders and manual show microUSB. (I'm hoping it's wrong, unlike that Lenovo HT10 fiasco).
> 
> https://www.klipsch.ca/products/s1-true-wireless-earphones-wireless-charging-pad
> 
> https://www.londondrugs.com/klipsch-t1-true-wireless-earphones---black---st1tw/L0642269.html



First time hearing about these! Looks less bulky compared to the T5’s.. hopefully it sounds just as good


----------



## Soreniglio

Guys, by looking at the specs, what are your thoughts on these? I'd try to buy one of the two. The reviews are enthusiastic about both, especially Areabi, they have a minor problem with pairing, Teknic seem to have low volume instead in some cases.

https://www.amazon.it/Bluetooth-iTe...07Q2K27KM/ref=cm_cr_arp_d_product_top?ie=UTF8

https://www.amazon.it/wireless-Impe...07TRX3XXL/ref=cm_cr_arp_d_product_top?ie=UTF8

I know it's in Italian but maybe you can use Google translate


----------



## Caipirina

Got my QCY T3 today - and blessed are those who get a good fit / seal with the original ‘tips’ ... I had to get a bit creative... and still playing around.


----------



## d3myz

So I got on Alibaba today to purchase a sample of the Sunline T2, the TWS Advanced Sound claimed didn't have the same specs as their M5, and POOF! They are gone! Looks like someone at the plant got a call.


----------



## d3myz

Soreniglio said:


> Guys, by looking at the specs, what are your thoughts on these? I'd try to buy one of the two. The reviews are enthusiastic about both, especially Areabi, they have a minor problem with pairing, Teknic seem to have low volume instead in some cases.
> 
> https://www.amazon.it/Bluetooth-iTe...07Q2K27KM/ref=cm_cr_arp_d_product_top?ie=UTF8
> 
> ...


the 2nd link look the same as the Tiso i4's won't blow your socks off, but I really like mine and they are a solid all around performer for $20


----------



## Caipirina

turbobb said:


> Looks like Plantronics finally entered the fray with an in-ear TWS form factor (rather than the Beats clip style):
> https://www.plantronics.com/us/en/product/backbeat-pro-5100
> 
> - BT5, *ANC*, IPX4, 5.8mm drivers, 6.5hrs



Where do you get the ANC from? Not seeing it ...


----------



## webvan

Too bad about the Sunline T2s now being "gone" 



d3myz said:


> the 2nd link look the same as the Tiso i4's won't blow your socks off, but I really like mine and they are a solid all around performer for $20



I thought of getting these at some point due to their size, they seem to really sit pretty flush, even more than the 65t. Reading the comments the mic seems pretty poor but that's not a huge deal.


----------



## Soreniglio

d3myz said:


> the 2nd link look the same as the Tiso i4's won't blow your socks off, but I really like mine and they are a solid all around performer for $20



I think they're not the same tho, Tiso I4 are IPX5, these are IPX6, also listening time is different, maybe same case and different tuning? We'll see

Btw, I bought them already, hopefully I'll be satisfied with these


----------



## jhoff80

Looks like Jabra announced the 75t.  Smaller, better battery, and USB-C charging.

https://www.theverge.com/2019/9/5/2...s-earbuds-release-date-news-features-ifa-2019


----------



## clerkpalmer

jhoff80 said:


> Looks like Jabra announced the 75t.  Smaller, better battery, and USB-C charging.
> 
> https://www.theverge.com/2019/9/5/2...s-earbuds-release-date-news-features-ifa-2019



CNET saying sound quality is the same. Fail.


----------



## webvan

Jabra say the improved audio would be from better fitting...it does look like they might be easier to fit in the ear. The Mic tip of my 65ts does press a bit more on my ear than I'd like and seem to make it more difficult to get the best possible seal and maintain it.


----------



## clerkpalmer

webvan said:


> Jabra say the improved audio would be from better fitting...it does look like they might be easier to fit in the ear. The Mic tip of my 65ts does press a bit more on my ear than I'd like and seem to make it more difficult to get the best possible seal and maintain it.



That's some weak sauce there.  One might think they would actually try to you know make them actually sound better particularly since in the 2 years since they've been out the competition has gotten fierce. So much for innovation.


----------



## BigZ12

clerkpalmer said:


> CNET saying sound quality is the same. Fail.


And no info about codecs... why?


----------



## webvan

Too early ? 

Couple videos on YT : https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=jabra+75t&sp=CAI%3D


----------



## hifi80sman

d3myz said:


> the 2nd link look the same as the Tiso i4's won't blow your socks off, but I really like mine and they are a solid all around performer for $20


Just ordered the TREBLAB Xfit (IPX6) that share the same earbud design as the Tiso i4 (IPX5), Areabi T515, and Mavin Air-X.  Hopefully they'll have sound that's as "sensational" as their description.  As we just discussed yesterday, many companies may select the same design, but internals and firmware can vary significantly.


----------



## hifi80sman

clerkpalmer said:


> CNET saying sound quality is the same. Fail.





clerkpalmer said:


> That's some weak sauce there.  One might think they would actually try to you know make them actually sound better particularly since in the 2 years since they've been out the competition has gotten fierce. So much for innovation.


Totally agree.  So, it sounds better because it fits better?  LOL!  That's like saying the car is faster because the wheel is rounder.  Gee, thanks.  Come on Jabra, we're not idiots.  You just didn't find it cost effective to upgrade the drivers or pay licensing for additional codec support.  It's just a product "refresh" to drive sales and may have been a part of the original long-term product strategy to begin with (planned obsolescence with Micro-USB, etc.).


----------



## Tavleen Suri

hifi80sman said:


> Just ordered the TREBLAB Xfit (IPX6) that share the same earbud design as the Tiso i4 (IPX5), Areabi T515, and Mavin Air-X.  Hopefully they'll have sound that's as "sensational" as their description.  As we just discussed yesterday, many companies may select the same design, but internals and firmware can vary significantly.


Will wait for your feedback on these....i like the bud design ....looks like it 'll go deep in the ear canal...i have their x5's and been using them as my daily gym driver....like them a lot


hifi80sman said:


> Just ordered the TREBLAB Xfit (IPX6) that share the same earbud design as the Tiso i4 (IPX5), Areabi T515, and Mavin Air-X.  Hopefully they'll have sound that's as "sensational" as their description.  As we just discussed yesterday, many companies may select the same design, but internals and firmware can vary significantly.


----------



## gibletzor

Just found an unexpected boon to getting the Tranya B530s early to test them.  The eartips from these are amazing on my Galaxy Buds!


----------



## d3myz

hifi80sman said:


> Just ordered the TREBLAB Xfit (IPX6) that share the same earbud design as the Tiso i4 (IPX5), Areabi T515, and Mavin Air-X.  Hopefully they'll have sound that's as "sensational" as their description.  As we just discussed yesterday, many companies may select the same design, but internals and firmware can vary significantly.


The look really nice. I love how compact the Tiso's are, but No Volume Controls for $50?


----------



## hifi80sman

d3myz said:


> The look really nice. I love how compact the Tiso's are, but No Volume Controls for $50?


The description shows volume controls.


----------



## d3myz

hifi80sman said:


> The description shows volume controls.


NICE!, my bad. still $50 is a little steep IMO.


----------



## hifi80sman

d3myz said:


> NICE!, my bad. still $50 is a little steep IMO.


Because the Tiso i4 is so affordable, that was my initial reaction as well.  However, I'm hoping they share less with those and share more with the Mavin Air-X.  We'll see.  No mention of codecs, but I'm OK with AAC because my primary device is an iPhone.

Does the Tiso i4 have AAC support?


----------



## d3myz

Well, the search is over, I've finally found the ultimate TWS'


----------



## FYLegend

DigDub said:


> And so... I have Monster's version of the Anbes 359. Sound quality is pretty much the same as the white box "Air" version. Volume is louder than the Air and it has volume control, the buttons on the Monster is stiffer.


How much did you pay for them? I see them for 99$ CAD on Amazon. Are they still prone to driver flex when the buttons are pressed and is there still those voice messages (primary/secondary, forward/reverse)? 



clerkpalmer said:


> I have never heard of those  They haven't even gotten the other ones to market.  Strange


The T5 seems to be available on Amazon but via a third-party seller. London Drugs and Gibbys have them listed but don't seem to be in stock.

I have received confirmation from Klipsch that the S1 only has microUSB, so it's a typo on the site . Probably won't be a dealbreaker to many of you, but I find it disappointing considering the T5 uses it. It's just as perplexing as JBL still using microUSB when Samsung Galaxy Buds as Type C.

As for the Jabras, should have called it the 65x or something, but maybe they're holding out on another one like an active version or one with ANC. So you're mainly paying for a new case and improved seal (which I loathe on the original). Nice to see a magnetic case and Type C, but very disappointing that the wireless charging case is coming separately _after_ release ("early 2020"). They could have just made a case for the original 65t with Type C and Qi charging but it's another means of planned obsolescence.

What needs to be addressed is the channel imbalance and high noise floor on the left bud at higher volumes on the 65t.


----------



## d3myz

DigDub said:


> And so... I have Monster's version of the Anbes 359. Sound quality is pretty much the same as the white box "Air" version. Volume is louder than the Air and it has volume control, the buttons on the Monster is stiffer.


These look cool. So in your picture, The black pair on the right are the Monster Airlinks? What is on the left? the Anbes 359? I found some monsters on ebay for $60, just wondering how the sound compares to the 359.


----------



## CocaCola15

hifi80sman said:


> Because the Tiso i4 is so affordable, that was my initial reaction as well.  However, I'm hoping they share less with those and share more with the Mavin Air-X.  We'll see.  No mention of codecs, but I'm OK with AAC because my primary device is an iPhone.
> 
> Does the Tiso i4 have AAC support?


So I had a $22 credit on Amazon, bought these for $30. Look interesting. If they sound like the Air-X, $30 is a nice price.


----------



## D3soLaT3 (Sep 5, 2019)

hifi80sman said:


> Because the Tiso i4 is so affordable, that was my initial reaction as well.  However, I'm hoping they share less with those and share more with the Mavin Air-X.  We'll see.  No mention of codecs, but I'm OK with AAC because my primary device is an iPhone.
> 
> Does the Tiso i4 have AAC support?


According to the Tiso Official Store on Aliexpress they support SBC/AAC. They are also on sale for $19.92. https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32977905673.html

Edit: Meant AAC


----------



## actorlife (Sep 5, 2019)

❤️❤️❤️OFUSHO F16 update. Highs are a bit more crispy after doing 18hrs of music on my Cayin N3 last night. I'm getting ((((9hrs)))) at 60% volume. I'm shocked. These are rated at 6-8hrs. Got on my bike today and experienced a bit of breakups during my ride, but not enough to complain. Doing another 18-24hrs today/tonight. These for sure are a keeper, especially for Movies and Music is fine I think they will open up even more. I did notice highs are better.

I got the Tranya B530 delivered at my family's house last night. I need to pick them up this weekend.  I'm also interested in getting some tips perhaps in Oct.


----------



## d3myz

actorlife said:


> ❤️❤️❤️OFUSHO F16 update. Highs are a bit more crispy after doing 18hrs of music on my Cayin N3 last night. I'm getting ((((9hrs)))) at 60% volume. I'm shocked. These are rated at 6-8hrs. Got on my bike today and experienced a bit of breakups during my ride, but not enough to complain. Doing another 18-24hrs today/tonight. These for sure are a keeper, especially for Movies and Music is fine I think they will open up even more. I did notice highs are better.
> 
> I got the Tranya B530 delivered at my family's house last night. I need to pick them up this weekend.  I'm also interested in getting some tips perhaps in Oct.


Well, looks like i'm pulling mine out again for a burn in.


----------



## LordToneeus

actorlife said:


> ❤️❤️❤️OFUSHO F16 update. Highs are a bit more crispy after doing 18hrs of music on my Cayin N3 last night. I'm getting ((((9hrs)))) at 60% volume. I'm shocked. These are rated at 6-8hrs. Got on my bike today and experienced a bit of breakups during my ride, but not enough to complain. Doing another 18-24hrs today/tonight. These for sure are a keeper, especially for Movies and Music is fine I think they will open up even more. I did notice highs are better.
> 
> I got the Tranya B530 delivered at my family's house last night. I need to pick them up this weekend.  I'm also interested in getting some tips perhaps in Oct.



I agree! This morning I took these out and immediately put in the Mpow T5s and thought “whoah, these are too tinny and bright! Where is my thic bottom?” Maybe for critical listening I’d reach for Astrotec Momentum or Mpow T5’s, but for running around and playing I am really enjoying the F16’s. 

(Of course “critical listening” is a relative term in the TWE space.)


----------



## actorlife (Sep 5, 2019)

d3myz said:


> Well, looks like i'm pulling mine out again for a burn in.


I'm gonna try the large tips tonight. Like you said they look too small to be medium. *Edit* wait these came with small installed from factory no wonder. Just put on the medium size way better. I'd like to hear your thoughts with movies. I could not believe how spacious they sound with movies even more than the Anbes. Wow did I just say that?


----------



## turbobb

Caipirina said:


> Where do you get the ANC from? Not seeing it ...


Hmm you're right, guess I got fooled by the initial pitch: "Forget the wind and background noise — with BackBeat PRO 5100 true wireless earbuds, you’ll hear only what you want to hear."  this coupled with the 4 mics and I assumed it was ANC but apparently not.


----------



## actorlife (Sep 5, 2019)

LordToneeus said:


> I agree! This morning I took these out and immediately put in the Mpow T5s and thought “whoah, these are too tinny and bright! Where is my thic bottom?” Maybe for critical listening I’d reach for Astrotec Momentum or Mpow T5’s, but for running around and playing I am really enjoying the F16’s.
> 
> (Of course “critical listening” is a relative term in the TWE space.)


These have good thick bass and no boom if you get a great seal. Are you using other tips on these? I'm thinking for $35 (on sale) these are amazing and my recommendation when asked. That aptx makes a big difference in making those movies sound great in my Sony Z2. Too bad I don't own other Android devices with aptx. Enjoy them Lord. The SQ on these TWS are getting so much better, cheaper and convenient.


----------



## Inear

Sony announced new TWS. tHE WF-H800, lacks ANC like their most recent release. 

https://www.theverge.com/2019/9/5/20850819/sony-wfh800-true-wireless-earbuds-colors-features-price


----------



## hifi80sman (Sep 5, 2019)

Inear said:


> Sony announced new TWS. tHE WF-H800, lacks ANC like their most recent release.
> 
> https://www.theverge.com/2019/9/5/20850819/sony-wfh800-true-wireless-earbuds-colors-features-price


I love Sony.  I feel like they are tapping into the addiction.  Downward spiral from here!  At least I'll be the bum on the street with tons of audio gear (until I get mugged).


----------



## LordToneeus

actorlife said:


> These have good thick bass and no boom if you get a great seal. Are you using other tips on these? I'm thinking for $35 (on sale) these are amazing and my recommendation when asked. That aptx makes a big difference in making those movies sound great in my Sony Z2. Too bad I don't own other Android devices with aptx. Enjoy them Lord. The SQ on these TWS are getting so much better, cheaper and convenient.



Stock tips work perfectly for me. As I said before, the fins on these are in just the right spot for my ears, so this is the most secure- fitting pair I have.


----------



## LordToneeus

hifi80sman said:


> I love Sony.  I feel like they are tapping into the addition.  Downward spiral from here!  At least I'll be the bum on the street with tons of audio gear (until I get mugged).



The colors are lovely, but no military green! I’d pay a $25 premium for an olive green set.


----------



## hifi80sman

LordToneeus said:


> The colors are lovely, but no military green! I’d pay a $25 premium for an olive green set.


I like the Black (of course) and think the Blue looks pretty good.  The Peach and Tan/Light Pink are clearly directed toward a certain market segment, while the Super Bright Red borders Red/Hot Pink. Kind of like Red and Hot Pink had a kid.  That's it.

Nevertheless, if the price (US) is at least $50-$70 less than the WF-1000XM3, it's worth considering.  I assume it'll still have app control, etc.


----------



## Caipirina

d3myz said:


> Well, the search is over, I've finally found the ultimate TWS'



Guess we will be seeing more of these kinds of crossovers ...


----------



## Caipirina

Inear said:


> Sony announced new TWS. tHE WF-H800, lacks ANC like their most recent release.
> 
> https://www.theverge.com/2019/9/5/20850819/sony-wfh800-true-wireless-earbuds-colors-features-price




Stick-y-Out-y buds  ... i know that some people here really dislike that idea ...


----------



## DigDub

FYLegend said:


> How much did you pay for them? I see them for 99$ CAD on Amazon. Are they still prone to driver flex when the buttons are pressed and is there still those voice messages (primary/secondary, forward/reverse)?
> 
> 
> The T5 seems to be available on Amazon but via a third-party seller. London Drugs and Gibbys have them listed but don't seem to be in stock.
> ...


I paid $99 sgd (about $95 cad) for them. There's primary and secondary voice prompts. But no forward and reverse voice prompts, only a soft beep.


----------



## DigDub

d3myz said:


> These look cool. So in your picture, The black pair on the right are the Monster Airlinks? What is on the left? the Anbes 359? I found some monsters on ebay for $60, just wondering how the sound compares to the 359.


I actually swapped the buds and casing around to see if they would charge, and they do work. The white buds is the Monster. The black is the Air, which is a rebrand of the Anbes but without volume control.


----------



## hifi80sman

Caipirina said:


> Guess we will be seeing more of these kinds of crossovers ...


Sooo cheesy.  They’ll stop making them once they notice most markets won’t buy them.  “Quality Audio” doesn’t come to mind when one takes their TWS out of their water bottle.


----------



## actorlife

Caipirina said:


> Guess we will be seeing more of these kinds of crossovers ...


Buy buy buy you need that to hide the other TWS'S. RAHAHAHA


----------



## actorlife

hifi80sman said:


> Sooo cheesy.  They’ll stop making them once they notice most markets won’t buy them.  “Quality Audio” doesn’t come to mind when one takes their TWS out of their water bottle.


What's the Tally on TWS? When I get the Tranya they will be my eighth. I gotta tally all my IEM's which are around probably around 30-45. Ro man.


----------



## howdy

Any of you by chance do CAD and listen to your Wireless? and or just do CAD? This is when i do most of my listening.


----------



## RobinFood

I've been out of the loop for a while. I have really been enjoying the sabbat x12 for movies. I think that style is the most comfortable and easy to use, but the sound quality just isn't there for enjoying music.

Has there been any developments on open air true wireless earphones or is it still the best choice if I don't want to jam foam or silicone up my ear canal?


----------



## hifi80sman

The TREBLAB arrived and I've been testing it for the past hour or so.  As far as size, the case is quite compact and roughly half the size of the MTW.

PROS
-  Comfortable.  Compact.  Fit securely.
-  Bass is nice and deep with slightly forward mids and rolled off highs.  Definitely a fun, warm tuning that works well for workouts.  I would _*not *_describe it as "muffled".  The drivers sound like they're a quality set and the sound is a specific result of tuning.
-  Case and earbuds feel well build and fabrication is nice.  No rough edges.  Buttons click nicely and have a consistent click on each side (one side is not softer than the other).
-  No driver flex.
-  AAC support.

CONS
-  Not for those that enjoy a crispy, bright sound signature.
-  No aptX.
-  Micro USB.
-  Despite what the description indicates, there are no volume controls.  The manual does not show any multi-function button presses for volume.  A little disappointed here, so I sent the seller an email informing them this issue.  Hopefully they update it so nobody else has to discover this surprise.

PENDING
-  Still need to test out call quality.

If the call quality is good, I could recommend these at $49 for those that enjoy a warm, bass-forward signature, even with the lack of volume control.  I'm actually enjoying them quite a bit, think they look very sleek, and are very portable.  Aside from the Tiso i4, there is another pair that looks exactly the same for $20 cheaper, but it has an IPX5 rating vs the TREBLAB's IPX6.  As far as the SoC, I'm not sure what each use.


----------



## FYLegend

DigDub said:


> I paid $99 sgd (about $95 cad) for them. There's primary and secondary voice prompts. But no forward and reverse voice prompts, only a soft beep.


What are the colours of the case lights and does it charge with a Type-C to Type-C cable?

Unfortunately, regarding Sabbat E12, I was unable to resolve the dispute regarding my issue. Aliexpress sided with the seller, whose objection was "please re-pair the device" which I said I did already. I provided an audio sample which was difficult to record, but for whatever reason they were unable to hear the issue -____- When I was able to record a second sample Aliexpress had already shut off the dispute. Another 70$ out the window.


----------



## webvan

@hifi80sman - thanks for the review, did you manage to get a good seal ? And if you did how well do they isolate ?

@RobinFood - was wondering other earbud designs the other day and chinmie pointed me to a model but it looks like a rework of the X12. I find them perfect for running as there is zero "thumping" as with isolating IEMs and the sound is quite pleasant with a nice bass response which is unusual for earbud design (think Airpods !). They are also very comfortable for everyday use although for listening in a quiet environment you can indeed tell they lack some refinement. When I really want HQ listening with IEMs I pull out my wired (or on a KZ BT module) TRN-80 but must admit I rarely do it...I find it easier to pull out my ATH-AD1000 cans that I can just drop on my head.


----------



## Soreniglio

Guys, I know it is a dumb question, but if I listen to this kind of music : 



For which signature should I look forward to?


----------



## hifi80sman

webvan said:


> @hifi80sman - thanks for the review, did you manage to get a good seal ? And if you did how well do they isolate ?


Yes, I was able to get a good seal with the L tips.  I’d say the isolation is decent for most situations if you get a good fit.  They get fairly loud and have great bass with rolled off highs, so if you need to pump up the volume, it won’t pierce your ears with sharp highs.


----------



## DigDub (Sep 6, 2019)

FYLegend said:


> What are the colours of the case lights and does it charge with a Type-C to Type-C cable?
> 
> Unfortunately, regarding Sabbat E12, I was unable to resolve the dispute regarding my issue. Aliexpress sided with the seller, whose objection was "please re-pair the device" which I said I did already. I provided an audio sample which was difficult to record, but for whatever reason they were unable to hear the issue -____- When I was able to record a second sample Aliexpress had already shut off the dispute. Another 70$ out the window.


The colour of the LED light on the case when charging is white. I don't have a power delivery power adapter with me now, so I can't try usb-c to usb-c charging. I did charge it with my S10 power adapter and it is able to charge. Only the left earbud is the master bud and the mic is there. The right bud cannot be used on its own.


----------



## gibletzor

The Ofusho F16s are $30 on lightning deal on Amazon US for about 5 more hours.


----------



## actorlife

gibletzor said:


> The Ofusho F16s are $30 on lightning deal on Amazon US for about 5 more hours.



Wowee what a freaking bargain. Guys do yourself a favor and get these. 9hr battery(60% vol) & aptx. I highly recommend them. Thanks for posting gib.


----------



## CocaCola15

hifi80sman said:


> The TREBLAB arrived and I've been testing it for the past hour or so.  As far as size, the case is quite compact and roughly half the size of the MTW.
> 
> PROS
> -  Comfortable.  Compact.  Fit securely.
> ...


Thanks for that mini-review. Sounds like well worth $30 price I actually paid. If I end up not using them as much, I can give them to someone in the family. Did you do any EQing in terms of the treble? Just curious if they respond to EQ, since the Kaiser Tune app has a very good 20-band option. Maybe can punch up the highs a bit without destroying the SQ.


----------



## actorlife (Sep 6, 2019)

Some more good deals
16.99 very interesting with 5hr battery. Hmmm
Nivava D9 True Wireless Earbuds, Bluetooth 5.0 Headphones, 3D Stereo Sound, IPX5 https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07PLPQZ79/ref=cm_sw_r_sms_apa_i_OnMCDbW6GCQSE

Another UFO with number LED $39
Ultra Mini Bluetooth 5.0 Earbuds, 15H Playtime, Volume Adjustment, Touch Control, Built-in Mic, Small in Ear Wireless Earphone Bluetooth Headphone w/Magnetic Charging Case, Sweatproof, LED Indicator https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07WCFQKZX/ref=cm_sw_r_sms_apa_i_yaNCDb9XRA60V
$79
Edifier TWS5 True Wireless Earbuds - Up to 32 Hour Battery Life with Mic and Charging Case, Bluetooth v5.0 aptX, IPX5 Splash & Sweatproof, Easy Pairing - Black https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07TXH51LR/ref=cm_sw_r_sms_apa_i_ovMCDbBC0A66M


----------



## WesennTony

james444 said:


> To follow up on the question "Fostex TM2 or BT20S plus the best $250 IEMs": I recently got my BT20S and a pre-production unit of the upcoming $250 JVC FDX1:
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/drop-jvc-ha-fdx1-dual-carbon-iem-available-in-the-us.912737/
> 
> These aren't water resistant, of course. But the FDX1 are among the best DD IEMs I know. And the BT20S + FDX1 combo sounds better than the stock TM2 imo. Not head and shoulders superior, but noticeably. Actually, it's the best sounding TWS configuration I have tried so far.


The Drop officially announces FDX1.  Now that I have spent some time with BT20S and am willing to try more, could you tell me if there is any hiss with this combo?


----------



## RobinFood

webvan said:


> @hifi80sman - thanks for the review, did you manage to get a good seal ? And if you did how well do they isolate ?
> 
> @RobinFood - was wondering other earbud designs the other day and chinmie pointed me to a model but it looks like a rework of the X12. I find them perfect for running as there is zero "thumping" as with isolating IEMs and the sound is quite pleasant with a nice bass response which is unusual for earbud design (think Airpods !). They are also very comfortable for everyday use although for listening in a quiet environment you can indeed tell they lack some refinement. When I really want HQ listening with IEMs I pull out my wired (or on a KZ BT module) TRN-80 but must admit I rarely do it...I find it easier to pull out my ATH-AD1000 cans that I can just drop on my head.



Sounds like something similar to what I have now. I use the x12 for movies or quick listen and they have decent mid bass but not much sub bass and cut off treble. That I can live with but they are also muddy and lack detail compared to my other stuff.

I can't stand over ear headphones anymore, I live in a hit and humid climate and get hot ears after 2 or 3 songs and iems give me pain if I use them for days heavily. Also wife and kids and coworkers are often trying to get my attention.

Recently I have been using the Smabat ST-10 but the comfort and ease of use of the x12 is do great I use them a lot out of laziness.

I considered the bt20 for the Smabat but they are still missing something in the comfort department...


----------



## james444

WesennTony said:


> The Drop officially announces FDX1.  Now that I have spent some time with BT20S and am willing to try more, could you tell me if there is any hiss with this combo?



With quiet classical pieces and the volume turned all the way up, I can hear some faint static noise. But nothing that would really bother me, and all the less when I'm out and about.

(Tested with my LG V30 via aptX)


----------



## Caipirina

actorlife said:


> Wowee what a freaking bargain. Guys do yourself a favor and get these. 9hr battery(60% vol) & aptx. I highly recommend them. Thanks for posting gib.



 

Wow ... never seen 'join waitlist' ... and that's 3h before deal is over ... maybe they only had 20 sets?   

Not that they ship to my location anyways


----------



## chinmie

RobinFood said:


> Sounds like something similar to what I have now. I use the x12 for movies or quick listen and they have decent mid bass but not much sub bass and cut off treble. That I can live with but they are also muddy and lack detail compared to my other stuff.
> 
> I can't stand over ear headphones anymore, I live in a hit and humid climate and get hot ears after 2 or 3 songs and iems give me pain if I use them for days heavily. Also wife and kids and coworkers are often trying to get my attention.
> 
> ...



Nillkin Go!


----------



## actorlife

Caipirina said:


> Wow ... never seen 'join waitlist' ... and that's 3h before deal is over ... maybe they only had 20 sets?
> 
> Not that they ship to my location anyways


Wowee tells you something when they sell out before time. If you can find them at a good price definitely get them. Never saw a wait list before either interesting.


----------



## d3myz

LordToneeus said:


> I agree! This morning I took these out and immediately put in the Mpow T5s and thought “whoah, these are too tinny and bright! Where is my thic bottom?” Maybe for critical listening I’d reach for Astrotec Momentum or Mpow T5’s, but for running around and playing I am really enjoying the F16’s.
> 
> (Of course “critical listening” is a relative term in the TWE space.)


I pulled mine out again and i'm having all sorts of issues with the touch response, the right bud doesn't seem to want to do anything other than play and pause and the left bud will only adjust the volume down if the right bud is connected. It's not like this on any other pair I own. maybe I got some dudes, swapping them out for replacement.


----------



## WesennTony

james444 said:


> With quiet classical pieces and the volume turned all the way up, I can hear some faint static noise. But nothing that would really bother me, and all the less when I'm out and about.
> 
> (Tested with my LG V30 via aptX)


Great! Really appreciate it.


----------



## Caipirina (Sep 6, 2019)

actorlife said:


> Wowee tells you something when they sell out before time. If you can find them at a good price definitely get them. Never saw a wait list before either interesting.



Tells me that either they had only a very limited number set aside for flash deal OR that way too many people blindly buy what we suggest on Head-Fi  

Guess I have to scroll back and read the reviews again ... after seeing that it looks like the Havit i93 and just skimming some impressions, I took them off my radar ...  didn't someone say 'size of battle ships' ? 

Still having fun with those QCY T3 (really depends on the tips) ... and some more little boxes arrived in country today AND 'left inward office of exchange' ... but I doubt they reached wife's office in time, gotta wait the whole weekend! really curious to get my hands on that Chi-Fi ANC model


----------



## RobinFood

chinmie said:


> Nillkin Go!



But silicone jammed in my ear... Even the super comfortable tips on the Nuarl, especially if I accidentally hook them.


----------



## d3myz

hifi80sman said:


> The TREBLAB arrived and I've been testing it for the past hour or so.  As far as size, the case is quite compact and roughly half the size of the MTW.
> 
> PROS
> -  Comfortable.  Compact.  Fit securely.
> ...


Great Impressions! Do you have the Tiso i4 to compare? I honestly have similar feelings about my Tiso, well made, quality driver, not muffled, tons of bass etc. They actually sound similar to the OFUSHO F16, with a little more punch and less sub-bass, but I think the sound quality Is Really nice on the Tiso. I get the most definition with my spiral dots. I'd recommend checking them out. If Treblab misrepresented the volume controls, they may have also done so with the ipx rating and you're basically paying an extra $30 for a different case and branding on the buttons.


----------



## actorlife

Caipirina said:


> Tells me that either they had only a very limited number set aside for flash deal OR that way too many people blindly buy what we suggest on Head-Fi
> 
> Guess I have to scroll back and read the reviews again ... after seeing that it looks like the Havit i93 and just skimming some impressions, I took them off my radar ...  didn't someone say 'size of battle ships' ?
> 
> Still having fun with those QCY T3 (really depends on the tips) ... and some more little boxes arrived in country today AND 'left inward office of exchange' ... but I doubt they reached wife's office in time, gotta wait the whole weekend! really curious to get my hands on that Chi-Fi ANC model


No aptx on the havit and only 4-6 battery. I have small ears and they stick out a bit, although not overly so. Wish they made the Ofusho in blue.


----------



## d3myz

Caipirina said:


> Tells me that either they had only a very limited number set aside for flash deal OR that way too many people blindly buy what we suggest on Head-Fi
> 
> Guess I have to scroll back and read the reviews again ... after seeing that it looks like the Havit i93 and just skimming some impressions, I took them off my radar ...  didn't someone say 'size of battle ships' ?
> 
> Still having fun with those QCY T3 (really depends on the tips) ... and some more little boxes arrived in country today AND 'left inward office of exchange' ... but I doubt they reached wife's office in time, gotta wait the whole weekend! really curious to get my hands on that Chi-Fi ANC model


I sure did. they are some biggens, man. They feel very bulky in my ears, which is odd because the t3 is probably around the same size if not bigger, but it fits much better. Imagine the T5, larger without any angle to the port. I have a really hard time keeping them in my ears, with my spinfit 360s, but I'm going to get them replaced take the stabilizers off and try again. because for $35 the do sound really nice, that is if I can get mine to open up, like the other guys on here say they did,


----------



## clerkpalmer

I am having trouble getting my Tranya B530 to connect to one another.  This has happened a few times to me.  Is there a procedure to follow to repair them?  Thanks.


----------



## webvan

hifi80sman said:


> Yes, I was able to get a good seal with the L tips.  I’d say the isolation is decent for most situations if you get a good fit.  They get fairly loud and have great bass with rolled off highs, so if you need to pump up the volume, it won’t pierce your ears with sharp highs.


Sounds good, thanks. It seems like they make a good addition to my small stable of TWS


----------



## assassin10000 (Sep 6, 2019)

RobinFood said:


> I've been out of the loop for a while. I have really been enjoying the sabbat x12 for movies. I think that style is the most comfortable and easy to use, but the sound quality just isn't there for enjoying music.
> 
> Has there been any developments on open air true wireless earphones or is it still the best choice if I don't want to jam foam or silicone up my ear canal?



There is the Mifo 02 iirc. It is also an earpod'ish shape. No one here that I know of has it and I haven't seen any trusted reviews.




RobinFood said:


> Recently I have been using the Smabat ST-10 but the comfort and ease of use of the x12 is do great I use them a lot out of laziness.
> 
> I considered the bt20 for the Smabat but they are still missing something in the comfort department...



I really like my ST-10 and BT20S combo. Mine is now more comfortable with modified connectors. If you have some soldering and modifying skills, you could put straight non-memory wire connectors like I did.


----------



## hifi80sman

CocaCola15 said:


> Thanks for that mini-review. Sounds like well worth $30 price I actually paid. If I end up not using them as much, I can give them to someone in the family. Did you do any EQing in terms of the treble? Just curious if they respond to EQ, since the Kaiser Tune app has a very good 20-band option. Maybe can punch up the highs a bit without destroying the SQ.


Yes, I was able to increase the highs via Spotify EQ with no issues.  I do, however, enjoy the sound out of the box and bounce around from sound signature to sound signature, depending on mood.  However, I will say that I do not enjoy overly bright signature.


----------



## Soreniglio

I think my AREABI might be same as TREBLAB, specs and description are similar, even if AREABI claim to be a 100% italian brand.


----------



## actorlife (Sep 6, 2019)

Last thoughts on the Ofusho F16
Hint F16 are the best TWS I own. The champ Anbes has been dethroned. Yesterday I noticed that the F16 had the small tips from factory, which I why I wasn't getting a great seal. I put on the medium tips and voila great seal. I played music overnight again. Went on a bike ride with them again. Got one break up when I turned my head. Whoa. Before I left I turned down the bass two notches on my Cayin N3. Music sounds way better and crispy with drum cymbals. Played Presley's It Now or Never and it way crystal clear. With his background singers "The Jordanaires" sounding clear as well. Not sure if it was the burn-in or turning down the bass, but these are fantastic. I mean $35(sale) for aptx, phone charger, crystal clear highs, bumping Bass without fatigue and 9hr battery is amazing. Highly recommended for Music, Movies, audiobooks, etc. Congrats to Ofusho for making a great product without over charging consumers. Bravisimo. ✌️

Hopefully the Tranya B530 can compete. Picking them up tomorrow and will give my thoughts tomorrow or Saturday.


----------



## hifi80sman

Soreniglio said:


> I think my AREABI might be same as TREBLAB, specs and description are similar, even if AREABI claim to be a 100% italian brand.


Yeah, there are a lot of variants floating around.  I'm not sure if the others support AAC, but the TEBLAB does and it's advertised on the box.

I found another variant for $35.

I also sent a message to TREBLAB regarding the volume controls that are advertised.  They said they'll get the marketing department to update the listing and offered me a 15% discount, which is good enough for me.


----------



## Soreniglio

actorlife said:


> Last thoughts on the Ofusho F16
> Hint F16 are the best TWS I own. The champ Anbes has been dethroned. Yesterday I noticed that the F16 had the small tips from factory, which I why I wasn't getting a great seal. I put on the medium tips and voila great seal. I played music overnight again. Went on a bike ride with them again. Got one break up when I turned my head. Whoa. Before I left I turned down the bass two notches on my Cayin N3. Music sounds way better and crispy with drum cymbals. Played Presley's It Now or Never and it way crystal clear. With his background singers "The Jordanaires" sounding clear as well. Not sure if it was the burn-in or turning down the bass, but these are fantastic. I mean $35(sale) for aptx, phone charger, crystal clear highs, bumping Bass without fatigue and 9hr battery is amazing. Highly recommended for Music, Movies, audiobooks, etc. Congrats to Ofusho for making a great product without over charging consumers. Bravisimo. ✌️
> 
> Hopefully the Tranya B530 can compete. Picking them up tomorrow and will give my thoughts tomorrow or Saturday.



Are these on Aliexpress too?


----------



## actorlife

Soreniglio said:


> Are these on Aliexpress too?


Not sure. I'm sure they do or ebay. Let us know if you do find them. I think C wants them too.


----------



## clerkpalmer

After the hiss with the TFZ No.3, I decided to test drive the Moondrop KSSX with the BT20S.  On the positive side, the hiss is reduced substantially.  They moondrop is definitely a step up from the already very good No. 3.  They do require more power to drive and my BT20S is close to max volume.  I do not think any TW headset can beat this set up for purely SQ.  They do sound much better paired with my ES100 likely due to the increased power.  So the question becomes, do you go cables and ES100 or stick with BT20s?  For reference, the BT20S plus moondrop is a roughly $230 investment which is in line with other TW headsets.   You have the advantage of being able to run them wired and the disadvantage of no sweatproofing.


----------



## RobinFood

chinmie said:


> Nillkin Go!



Btw, I was wondering if you listened to your go without any eartips given that they seem to have a guard to stop them from inserting too deep.

Maybe the most important question is if it has annoying blinking LEDs when listening to music or connected but in standby mode. The X12 never blinks after connecting and that is perfect. The Nuarl doesn't blink when playing music but blinks when not playing music but connected to my phone. That is annoying but not a deal breaker. If it blinked playing music though I would have never kept them.


----------



## RobinFood

I just noticed the qcy t3 has an open design too. Anyone know how they sound?


----------



## hifi80sman (Sep 7, 2019)

hifi80sman said:


> The TREBLAB arrived and I've been testing it for the past hour or so.  As far as size, the case is quite compact and roughly half the size of the MTW.
> 
> PROS
> -  Comfortable.  Compact.  Fit securely.
> ...


-  Confirmed call quality with several people and they said I sounded "good".
-  Sync on iPhone is good (YouTube, Amazon, Netflix, Hulu).


----------



## HiFlight

RobinFood said:


> Btw, I was wondering if you listened to your go without any eartips given that they seem to have a guard to stop them from inserting too deep.
> 
> Maybe the most important question is if it has annoying blinking LEDs when listening to music or connected but in standby mode. The X12 never blinks after connecting and that is perfect. The Nuarl doesn't blink when playing music but blinks when not playing music but connected to my phone. That is annoying but not a deal breaker. If it blinked playing music though I would have never kept them.


The Go only blinks when in pairing mode.  It does not blink when playing music or when in standby.  Without tips, there would likely be very little bass present.  Well-fitting tips are essential with any in-ear monitor that is designed for use with tips.


----------



## gibletzor (Sep 6, 2019)

clerkpalmer said:


> I am having trouble getting my Tranya B530 to connect to one another.  This has happened a few times to me.  Is there a procedure to follow to repair them?  Thanks.


I haven't had that problem with mine.  Only thing I can suggest is the reset in the manual.


----------



## FYLegend

Hmm, Jabees Firefly 2 coming soon:





Looks like the same case as the Firefly Pro (no telling if there will be wireless charging though). Not a big fan stem designs (negative-fit is my top preference), charcoal one looks nice.


----------



## chinmie

clerkpalmer said:


> Moondrop KSSX with the BT20S.  They do require more power to drive and my BT20S is close to max volume.  I do not think any TW headset can beat this set up for purely SQ.  They do sound much better paired with my ES100 likely due to the increased power.  So the question becomes, do you go cables and ES100 or stick with BT20s?  For reference, the BT20S plus moondrop is a roughly $230 investment which is in line with other TW headsets.   You have the advantage of being able to run them wired and the disadvantage of no sweatproofing.



agreed. for someone who happens to have multiple detachable IEMs already, the BT20S is the way to go (as long as the combo don't produce too much hiss). even if there is an increase SQ on the ES100 amp compared to the BT20S, it will only noticeable on a direct side by side comparison. that difference would easily forgotten because of the increased mobility and convenience.

for information, from my collection only the DM6 that produce quite a bit of noise, the B5+ has really low noise, and the others (earbuds included) have no noticable noise.



RobinFood said:


> Btw, I was wondering if you listened to your go without any eartips given that they seem to have a guard to stop them from inserting too deep.
> 
> Maybe the most important question is if it has annoying blinking LEDs when listening to music or connected but in standby mode. The X12 never blinks after connecting and that is perfect. The Nuarl doesn't blink when playing music but blinks when not playing music but connected to my phone. That is annoying but not a deal breaker. If it blinked playing music though I would have never kept them.



@HiFlight has already nicely answered the question 

I'm using whirlwind tips, and because it's almost flush with the nozzle's edge, the insertion is quite shallow. just think of it like the X12 deep, but the pointy part is more snug because of the silicone. so isolation is just slightly above the X12, but still lets in conversation in.


----------



## RobinFood

chinmie said:


> agreed. for someone who happens to have multiple detachable IEMs already, the BT20S is the way to go (as long as the combo don't produce too much hiss). even if there is an increase SQ on the ES100 amp compared to the BT20S, it will only noticeable on a direct side by side comparison. that difference would easily forgotten because of the increased mobility and convenience.
> 
> for information, from my collection only the DM6 that produce quite a bit of noise, the B5+ has really low noise, and the others (earbuds included) have no noticable noise.
> 
> ...



Sold. Just purchased it.
It doesn't help that it's so cheap at 26.50 USD.
Do you have a link for the whirlwind tips? Is it just the awful tips that came with the kz zs6 I bought years ago?


----------



## chinmie

RobinFood said:


> Sold. Just purchased it.
> It doesn't help that it's so cheap at 26.50 USD.
> Do you have a link for the whirlwind tips? Is it just the awful tips that came with the kz zs6 I bought years ago?



https://m.aliexpress.com/item/32808506339.html

the trick for me is to remove the ribs. it became my favored wide bore tips after that. when i ordered from that shop i can request to have all of the with the same size and choose the color combinations


----------



## RobinFood

chinmie said:


> https://m.aliexpress.com/item/32808506339.html
> 
> the trick for me is to remove the ribs. it became my favored wide bore tips after that. when i ordered from that shop i can request to have all of the with the same size and choose the color combinations



Hah, they are a third of the price of the earphones, but I guess if you get a 3 pack instead of 18 pack it will be cheaper.

What size do you recommend?
I use small foams with my er4xr but otherwise go small or medium.

How do you take out the ribs? Do you just skip them on both sides?


----------



## chinmie

RobinFood said:


> Hah, they are a third of the price of the earphones, but I guess if you get a 3 pack instead of 18 pack it will be cheaper.
> 
> What size do you recommend?
> I use small foams with my er4xr but otherwise go small or medium.
> ...



it depends on your usual eartips size. what do you use on regular iems? 

i use a small and pointy scissors to snip them, turn it inside out, then carefully remove the remaining ribs. you may not even need to remove them, it's just my personal preference


----------



## RobinFood (Sep 7, 2019)

chinmie said:


> it depends on your usual eartips size. what do you use on regular iems?
> 
> i use a small and pointy scissors to snip them, turn it inside out, then carefully remove the remaining ribs. you may not even need to remove them, it's just my personal preference



Are these the same?

https://m.ja.aliexpress.com/item/32...d=8034amp-VSxyNofHmTF8ChRpxQm1Rw1567843004447


----------



## chinmie

RobinFood said:


> Are these the same?
> 
> https://m.ja.aliexpress.com/item/32...d=8034amp-VSxyNofHmTF8ChRpxQm1Rw1567843004447



they look similar, maybe they are the same


----------



## d3myz

RobinFood said:


> Sold. Just purchased it.
> It doesn't help that it's so cheap at 26.50 USD.
> Do you have a link for the whirlwind tips? Is it just the awful tips that came with the kz zs6 I bought years ago?


I may be confused, but did you find the TRN BT20s for 26.50? and if so, where? I've had my eye on them forever.


----------



## RobinFood

d3myz said:


> I may be confused, but did you find the TRN BT20s for 26.50? and if so, where? I've had my eye on them forever.



Sorry for the confusion, I got the Nillkin go. My Smabat ST-10 will be staying wired, they are just too good for gaming to become wireless only.


----------



## LordToneeus

Oh, have a gander at these beauties coming up for a Lightning Deal tomorrow morning at 4 am:

https://smile.amazon.com/dp/B07TWPS..._m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_r=KM2XSZ3A391D2S0NWZF7

PANFREY, apt-x, “8-12 hour battery life”, volume control. Alas, merely IPX5, though that hasn’t been a problem for my Jabra 65t’s in the two years I’ve owned them. Speaking of which, these look to have a similar form factor, which I really dig. 

As long as the deal beats the current coupon and drops the price below $41 I may give them a shot.


----------



## gazzington

Whats the best sounding iems with a wireless facility I can buy at the moment?


----------



## clerkpalmer

gazzington said:


> Whats the best sounding iems with a wireless facility I can buy at the moment?


Pretty loaded question. Do you mean true wireless? There are lots of high end iems that offer bt cable options.  Audeze offers wireless for its isine series. Beyerdynamic offers it for its xelento.  RHA offers it for the CL2.  If you can be more specific, folks can try to answer. This thread is for true wireless meaning no behind the neck cable.


----------



## gazzington

Yeah I meant adapter like trn to iem such as moondrop etc


----------



## clerkpalmer

gazzington said:


> Yeah I meant adapter like trn to iem such as moondrop etc



Not sure there is a consensus. The  Biggest issue seems to be balancing the hiss with sensitive iems against the power requirements needed to drive a less sensitive one.


----------



## gazzington

I was thinking of using tfz 3 or the new moondrops. What those trn behind ear things be ok with those?


----------



## chinmie

gazzington said:


> Whats the best sounding iems with a wireless facility I can buy at the moment?



if based on price then the Fostex TM2 is currently the highest priced solution, with TRN as the most bang for the buck in price to performance (as one adapter cable for the TM2 is more expensive than the BT20S).

ibasso is also about to release similar product to the BT20S


----------



## clerkpalmer

gazzington said:


> I was thinking of using tfz 3 or the new moondrops. What those trn behind ear things be ok with those?


I am using both and like the both. The moondrop is definitely a step up in terms of refinement but the no. 3 is pretty fun sounding. Can't go wrong with either.


----------



## clerkpalmer

chinmie said:


> if based on price then the Fostex TM2 is currently the highest priced solution, with TRN as the most bang for the buck in price to performance (as one adapter cable for the TM2 is more expensive than the BT20S).
> 
> ibasso is also about to release similar product to the BT20S



Anyone know if the fostex is pushing more power than the bt20?   It's hard to justify the 10 times price increase.


----------



## gazzington

clerkpalmer said:


> Anyone know if the fostex is pushing more power than the bt20?   It's hard to justify the 10 times price increase.


I'm wondering this too. If it's worth the extra then I don't mind buying it


----------



## webvan

LordToneeus said:


> Oh, have a gander at these beauties coming up for a Lightning Deal tomorrow morning at 4 am:
> 
> https://smile.amazon.com/dp/B07TWPS..._m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_r=KM2XSZ3A391D2S0NWZF7
> 
> ...



Interestingly it looks more like the new 75t than the 65t !


----------



## webvan

chinmie said:


> it depends on your usual eartips size. what do you use on regular iems?
> 
> i use a small and pointy scissors to snip them, turn it inside out, then carefully remove the remaining ribs. you may not even need to remove them, it's just my personal preference


Why would you want to remove the ribs ? Aren't they supposed to "push" towards the ear to help maintain the seal ? I use them for my Havit G1 and they do the job.


----------



## chinmie

webvan said:


> Why would you want to remove the ribs ? Aren't they supposed to "push" towards the ear to help maintain the seal ? I use them for my Havit G1 and they do the job.



they sound "crinkly", like the sound of driver flex, and in my ears that ribs ended up making the seal slightly broken from time to time and reduce bass. it is more snug for me if i remove them


----------



## WesennTony

clerkpalmer said:


> After the hiss with the TFZ No.3, I decided to test drive the Moondrop KSSX with the BT20S.  On the positive side, the hiss is reduced substantially.  They moondrop is definitely a step up from the already very good No. 3.  They do require more power to drive and my BT20S is close to max volume.  I do not think any TW headset can beat this set up for purely SQ.  They do sound much better paired with my ES100 likely due to the increased power.  So the question becomes, do you go cables and ES100 or stick with BT20s?  For reference, the BT20S plus moondrop is a roughly $230 investment which is in line with other TW headsets.   You have the advantage of being able to run them wired and the disadvantage of no sweatproofing.


Glad KSSX work out well for you. I'm really enjoying KPE as well. They really need extended burn-in and now the SQ jumps quite a bit and stands out from Nuarl. Interestingly BT20S lack power for KSSX since they drive my KPE fine at 50% volume in my LG V30, and KSSX and KPE have identical sensitivity+impedance. Just hope that the hiss issue can be solved in future upgrade. ES100 already achieved it, so why not?
Also joined the drop of JVC FDX1, but a long wait...


----------



## Caipirina (Sep 7, 2019)

Anyone know these guys? I like the shape of the buds, and wireless charging at 15.99 after coupon ... not bad ... oh, but I would not trust the 'aptx' nor the 'type C' in the spec list (at this price point) .. that is always a mine field of copy / paste errors ... 

Somehow I recall reading something about TWS that identify as S9 ... can't recall though if it was good or bad .. and "S9" is too short for a good search


----------



## actorlife (Sep 7, 2019)

Caipirina said:


> Anyone know these guys? I like the shape of the buds, and wireless charging at 15.99 after coupon ... not bad ... oh, but I would not trust the 'aptx' nor the 'type C' in the spec list (at this price point) .. that is always a mine field of copy / paste errors ...
> 
> Somehow I recall reading something about TWS that identify as S9 ... can't recall though if it was good or bad .. and "S9" is too short for a good search


Stop. Rahahaha

Ofusho F16(long bad grammer review gasp) is added to my overviews in my sig.


----------



## willyk

After the USPS lost my first B530 shipment from Tranya, the second shipment actually made it here this AM.

I need to use the B530's for a while more to really get accustomed to them, and they probably need some burn-in.  But as of my initial listening, I find them to have more high-end and mid-range than the MPOW T5's, while still having plenty of punchy low-end.  For me, the B530's are more articulate across the audio spectrum, with fit and build that easily matches the T5's.

I love my T5's and I am happy I got clued-into them via this forum.  That said, the B530's might best them.  Again, I need to use them for a while.

Very happy to have learned of the B530 beta here on this forum!


----------



## gibletzor

willyk said:


> After the USPS lost my first B530 shipment from Tranya, the second shipment actually made it here this AM.
> 
> I need to use the B530's for a while more to really get accustomed to them, and they probably need some burn-in.  But as of my initial listening, I find them to have more high-end and mid-range than the MPOW T5's, while still having plenty of punchy low-end.  For me, the B530's are more articulate across the audio spectrum, with fit and build that easily matches the T5's.
> 
> ...


They are fantastic and it doesn't hurt at all that they were free!


----------



## willyk

gibletzor said:


> They are fantastic and it doesn't hurt at all that they were free!



I would have happily paid for these.  I think the price needs to be reduced a bit to compete with the T5's though.

I find the B530's and the T5's to sound so amazing, that it really makes question how I could justify spending 4-5x as much for the more well-known products.

On a related note, then I first got the T5's a couple of weeks back, I purchased both the SpinFit and Spiral Dots.  I found the stock tips to be the best for me, but it's great to have a couple of really good alternatives.


----------



## CocaCola15

hifi80sman said:


> The TREBLAB arrived and I've been testing it for the past hour or so.  As far as size, the case is quite compact and roughly half the size of the MTW.
> 
> PROS
> -  Comfortable.  Compact.  Fit securely.
> ...


Got mine this morning, for $30 (with Amazon Visa point discount) very nice, needed a bit of tweaking and could not get close to a proper seal with the S and M tips, so opted for the large and that did the trick. What's most amazing is how nice they are packaged and the size of the case, tiny. Might try them with large bulby Comply foam tips and see if I can get an even better seal. Not bad at all. Not sure when I will use them (with the Melomania 1 and Tevi already here, plus the Tranya T1 Pro and a pair of QCY TW buds too), but who cares. That's the insanity of this crazy "hobby." I can always give them to someone in need.


----------



## gibletzor

willyk said:


> I would have happily paid for these.  I think the price needs to be reduced a bit to compete with the T5's though.
> 
> I find the B530's and the T5's to sound so amazing, that it really makes question how I could justify spending 4-5x as much for the more well-known products.
> 
> On a related note, then I first got the T5's a couple of weeks back, I purchased both the SpinFit and Spiral Dots.  I found the stock tips to be the best for me, but it's great to have a couple of really good alternatives.


I think I paid $45 for my T5s and I would easily pay that again for the B530s if I had to.  I agree $60 is getting into "high" territory without any defining features like Qi charging though.

I just got some Spinfit CP100Zs a couple days ago and I'm actually enjoying them more than the stock tips on my Mpow T5s.  On the B530s I don't notice much difference and the B530 tips feel a bit better.  I like the CP100Z on my Galaxy Buds as well!


----------



## willyk

gibletzor said:


> I think I paid $45 for my T5s and I would easily pay that again for the B530s if I had to.  I agree $60 is getting into "high" territory without any defining features like Qi charging though.
> 
> I just got some Spinfit CP100Zs a couple days ago and I'm actually enjoying them more than the stock tips on my Mpow T5s.  On the B530s I don't notice much difference and the B530 tips feel a bit better.  I like the CP100Z on my Galaxy Buds as well!



Interesting...

I contacted Spinfit when I got the T5's and they said that recommended tips are the CP360's.  Which were good, but not as good as the stock tips.  I wonder if the CP100z's would be better?


----------



## gibletzor (Sep 7, 2019)

willyk said:


> Interesting...
> 
> I contacted Spinfit when I got the T5's and they said that recommended tips are the CP360's.  Which were good, but not as good as the stock tips.  I wonder if the CP100z's would be better?



I honestly don't remember why I chose the CP100Zs over the CP360s.  I like em though!  And their website says "Specifically made for True Wireless headphones!"


----------



## actorlife (Sep 7, 2019)

Look who's finally home. Will open up and test and burn-in music overnight. ✌️✅ First listen sounds a bit crispy, but could be better & bass is good, but could be more tighter. Test tommorow with movies and more music. Will give more impressions for the next 2-3 dayS as they open up. Ra.


----------



## FYLegend

webvan said:


> Interestingly it looks more like the new 75t than the 65t !


Looks like a rebrand of Wavefun Xpods 3/YTOM T1-AptX. Beware as some of the rebrands are said to sound bad.


----------



## Mouseman

actorlife said:


> Look who's finally home. Will open up and test and burn-in music overnight. ✌️✅ First listen sounds a bit crispy, but could be better & bass is good, but could be more tighter. Test tommorow with movies and more music. Will give more impressions for the next 2-3 dayS as they open up. Ra.


I think you're really going to like them. Great sound, and very comfortable. I can use them with shallow insertion if I don't care about outside noise, but they also fit really deep if you want to block everything. They will even out sound-wise in a few days. The only thing I don't like is the case lid - it feels flimsy and I almost have to squeeze it to get it to open (if I get the right side, it's hard to tell). But I really like the buds themselves.


----------



## thimantha

Huawei has just announced a true-wireless with ANC.

https://www.xda-developers.com/huawei-freebuds-3-wireless-earbuds-active-noise-cancellation/

https://consumer.huawei.com/en/accessories/freebuds3/

I think they look ugly as hell and am curious to see how ANC would work in open-ear earbuds.


----------



## gibletzor

actorlife said:


> Look who's finally home. Will open up and test and burn-in music overnight. ✌️✅ First listen sounds a bit crispy, but could be better & bass is good, but could be more tighter. Test tommorow with movies and more music. Will give more impressions for the next 2-3 dayS as they open up. Ra.


These have overtaken the Mpow T5 as my favorite over the last few days.


----------



## gibletzor

Mouseman said:


> I think you're really going to like them. Great sound, and very comfortable. I can use them with shallow insertion if I don't care about outside noise, but they also fit really deep if you want to block everything. They will even out sound-wise in a few days. The only thing I don't like is the case lid - it feels flimsy and I almost have to squeeze it to get it to open (if I get the right side, it's hard to tell). But I really like the buds themselves.


I agree the lid is a little finicky sometimes, but I like how you can see the charging lights through the top.  Convenient to check the status.


----------



## Caipirina (Sep 8, 2019)

thimantha said:


> Huawei has just announced a true-wireless with ANC.
> 
> https://www.xda-developers.com/huawei-freebuds-3-wireless-earbuds-active-noise-cancellation/
> 
> ...



The wired Bose QC20 are semi-open and deliver some mind boggling ANC ... I am more curious how they can fit all that tech AND a 14mm driver + ANC tech inside this really small package ... amazeballs!


----------



## gibletzor

Alterola IE600 will be on lightning deal at 11AM CST this morning.  If it drops to $30 or less, they are a pretty good deal.  Banging bass and quality mids and highs.  Fit can be a bit weird though as they have a very different tip design.  @actorlife recommended them to me.


----------



## Caipirina

gibletzor said:


> Alterola IE600 will be on lightning deal at 11AM CST this morning.  If it drops to $30 or less, they are a pretty good deal.  Banging bass and quality mids and highs.  Fit can be a bit weird though as they have a very different tip design.  @actorlife recommended them to me.



Anyone traveling to Sri Lanka anytime soon and wanna get me those    ?


----------



## actorlife

Mouseman said:


> I think you're really going to like them. Great sound, and very comfortable. I can use them with shallow insertion if I don't care about outside noise, but they also fit really deep if you want to block everything. They will even out sound-wise in a few days. The only thing I don't like is the case lid - it feels flimsy and I almost have to squeeze it to get it to open (if I get the right side, it's hard to tell). But I really like the buds themselves.


I'm sure I'll like em especially knowing the highs are good and bass is there just needs more refining/opening up. No problem with the lid(still has plastic film till it comes off by itself). Something cool that I like is the usb is on the left side of the case instead of the back.
I like the touch controls on the Tranya more than the Ofusho. Something I have to get use to. All my others TWS are press in buttons. I like both. I also like the peace logo on the buds. ✌️Doing another music burn-in this morning and probably for the whole day. In between I'll check movies SQ.


----------



## james444 (Sep 8, 2019)

clerkpalmer said:


> Anyone know if the fostex is pushing more power than the bt20?   It's hard to justify the 10 times price increase.



Subjectively, it sounds a little more authoritative to me, but I've been told the chips inside the TM2 and BT20S are exactly the same.

The TM2 stock IEMs are very good, but performance / price is still a lot better overall for the BT20S.


----------



## clerkpalmer

james444 said:


> Subjectively, it sounds a little more authoritative to me, but I've been told the chips inside the TM2 and BT20S are exactly the same.
> 
> The TM2 stock IEMs are very good, but performance / price is still a lot better overall for the BT20S.



Thanks. Does the chip contain the amp as well?


----------



## james444

clerkpalmer said:


> Thanks. Does the chip contain the amp as well?



That's how I understood it.


----------



## clerkpalmer

james444 said:


> That's how I understood it.



Thanks again  Really makes it hard to go for the tm2 when you can get all 3 bt20s for 100.


----------



## Ocelitgol

james444 said:


> Subjectively, it sounds a little more authoritative to me, but I've been told the chips inside the TM2 and BT20S are exactly the same.
> 
> The TM2 stock IEMs are very good, but performance / price is still a lot better overall for the BT20S.



BT20S is so loud....but yeah, totally agreed. TM2 just doesn't seem reasonable. I would buy it if the charging case has a battery instead of just a charging cradle. 



clerkpalmer said:


> Thanks again  Really makes it hard to go for the tm2 when you can get all 3 bt20s for 100.



Buy a small battery case (like Mophie), add in some magnetic adapter = TWS lol
Better than TM2 IMO


----------



## chinmie

clerkpalmer said:


> Thanks again  Really makes it hard to go for the tm2 when you can get all 3 bt20s for 100.





stormers said:


> BT20S is so loud....but yeah, totally agreed. TM2 just doesn't seem reasonable. I would buy it if the charging case has a battery instead of just a charging cradle.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



or you could buy this


 

and use the case to stick the BT20S into it. also got a TWS as a backup. 

other alternative is buying portable charging cases like these:

 

 

i think it can fit two sets of BT20S inside


----------



## james444 (Sep 8, 2019)

stormers said:


> TM2 just doesn't seem reasonable. I would buy it if the charging case has a battery instead of just a charging cradle.



Personally, I don't miss an additional case battery, since 10 hours on a charge are enough for me. However, I find it unpractical that you can't recharge the earpieces without the bulky case.


----------



## Ocelitgol

chinmie said:


> or you could buy this
> 
> 
> 
> ...



The 1st option, what is it? It does seem more elegant.

The other case looks bigger



james444 said:


> Personally, I don't miss an additional case battery, since 10 hours on a charge are enough for me. However, I find it unpractical that you can't recharge the earpieces without the bulky case.



You're right, I just think it's more reasonable to carry the case around if it can charge it, or make it smaller perhaps


----------



## actorlife (Sep 8, 2019)

Are there any TWS cases with an Included built-in speaker on the case? I know it's bound to happen if they have a watch, bottle, etc why wouldn't they?  Come on C you are the search whore.  I have a portable MP3 player(M320 in my sig) with BT 4.0 with a speaker in the back.


----------



## gibletzor

actorlife said:


> Are there any TWS cases with an Included built-in speaker on the case? I know it's bound to happen if they have a watch, bottle, etc why wouldn't they?  Come on C you are the search whore.  I have a portable MP3 player(M320 in my sig) with BT 4.0 with a speaker in the back.


I stumbled across this a while back, but the reviews are generally mediocre to bad.


----------



## actorlife

gibletzor said:


> I stumbled across this a while back, but the reviews are generally mediocre to bad.


Darn that's too bad I really like the look of that case, but price not too much. Looks like a mini boombox. Too bad the audio is bad though.


----------



## chinmie

actorlife said:


> Are there any TWS cases with an Included built-in speaker on the case? I know it's bound to happen if they have a watch, bottle, etc why wouldn't they?  Come on C you are the search whore.  I have a portable MP3 player(M320 in my sig) with BT 4.0 with a speaker in the back.



you sure only need speaker and TWS function?
I'm feeling generous.. I'll throw in powerbank and flashlight also 

 

https://m.aliexpress.com/item/33029679818.html


----------



## vstolpner

Haven't had much time to follow along here recently I'm afraid (a little daunting when I log in and see over 100 new posts... lol)

But finally got my Tranya B530's and got my review up!
https://medium.com/@vstolpner/tranya-b530-improvements-on-an-already-great-product-ad1250ea8e03


----------



## actorlife

chinmie said:


> you sure only need speaker and TWS function?
> I'm feeling generous.. I'll throw in powerbank and flashlight also
> 
> 
> ...


My favorite is the bass thumpin' subwoofer too. Rahaha


 
And usb for mini fan. Ro boy. Yet they don't ever show you a pic of where the speaker is. Hmmmmm


----------



## vstolpner

actorlife said:


> My favorite is the bass thumpin' subwoofer too. Rahaha
> 
> And usb for mini fan. Ro boy. Yet they don't ever show you a pic of where the speaker is. Hmmmmm


Man, I've heard of all-in-ones, but this is getting ridiculous - the TWS becomes almost useless on account of portability....


----------



## actorlife (Sep 8, 2019)

vstolpner said:


> Man, I've heard of all-in-ones, but this is getting ridiculous - the TWS becomes almost useless on account of portability....


Well you know they're gonna try any trick in the book to be different and sell sell sell. I think a speaker implemention is cool if done well with a good cheap speaker to keep the price down.


----------



## gibletzor

Looks like Audio-Technica is coming out with a couple new TWS models before the end of the year at $99 and $149.   I'm not sure if the Engadget writer made a typo but one says 15 hour battery life!


----------



## C_Lindbergh

gibletzor said:


> Looks like Audio-Technica is coming out with a couple new TWS models before the end of the year at $99 and $149.   I'm not sure if the Engadget writer made a typo but one says 15 hour battery life!



Meh, doesn't seem to have EQ, Ambient Mode or AptX LL... How hard is it for the competition to release something that can rival the Sennheiser MTW in features/sound?


----------



## gibletzor

C_Lindbergh said:


> Meh, doesn't seem to have EQ, Ambient Mode or AptX LL... How hard is it for the competition to release something that can rival the Sennheiser MTW in features/sound?



They're also less than half the price though...


----------



## C_Lindbergh

gibletzor said:


> They're also less than half the price though...



Yes, that's what I dont get, I'm sure all those features doesn't cost that much to include, that's why Senneheiser could charge 300 EUR for their True Wireless. 1 year after the launch of those TWS we still don't have a pair of True Wireless with all those features. Competition needs to get tougher!


----------



## Geodry

Has anyone compared the cheap QCY models (e.g. QCY QS2/T2C) to more expensive brands? I've been thinking about giving wireless IEMs a go and I'm wondering if e.g. Jabra or JBL are worth the almost 10x price compared to the super cheap QCY.


----------



## acygni (Sep 8, 2019)

Why don't more manufacturers produce 2.4ghz wireless products? It gives way more data rate and can easily support lossless stream with protocol like Kleer. Unlike all the bluetooth codecs that at best only borderline supports lossless. I understand that it will always require a dongle but that's nothing compare to strapping dac/amp to our phones like most of us are used to.


----------



## Gunslinger686

vstolpner said:


> Haven't had much time to follow along here recently I'm afraid (a little daunting when I log in and see over 100 new posts... lol)
> 
> But finally got my Tranya B530's and got my review up!
> https://medium.com/@vstolpner/tranya-b530-improvements-on-an-already-great-product-ad1250ea8e03




Didn’t see any information in your review about battery life , approximately how many hours are you getting?


----------



## actorlife

Gunslinger686 said:


> Didn’t see any information in your review about battery life , approximately how many hours are you getting?


I got 5hrs full volume will check 50% volume.


----------



## marioho

Cheking on *ADV M5-TWS* comments page on Indiegogo and they confirmed that it will have no volume or voice assistant control. That's a downer.

For this price range (USD 179 IIRC), these two little feats were a given in my opinion.

Guess it's time to look for a better option... I held my hopes high for this one.


----------



## vstolpner

Gunslinger686 said:


> Didn’t see any information in your review about battery life , approximately how many hours are you getting?



I would do 2hrs at a time and get to about 70% battery. That's with 80% volume during burn in. I don't usually listen for long periods of time


----------



## chinmie

i find it quicker and easier (and also in my opinion, more polite) to just remove one earpiece if i require to talk to someone.

or just use a semi open TWS in the first place.

the form of ambient modes that available now, introduces hiss noise (like the 65T) or metallic digital gated noise (like the Earin M2. although i like this type better). also both would drain battery

open isolation TWS like the X12, i can leave it on standby with no music on from 10 PM to 5 AM, and the battery would still be at 90 percent


----------



## d3myz

acygni said:


> Why don't more manufacturers produce 2.4ghz wireless products? It gives way more data rate and can easily support lossless stream with protocol like Kleer. Unlike all the bluetooth codecs that at best only borderline supports lossless. I understand that it will always require a dongle but that's nothing compare to strapping dac/amp to our phones like most of us are used to.



I was told because wifi runs on 1w and would chew through rechargeable batteries BT is much more efficient and low power.


----------



## acygni

d3myz said:


> I was told because wifi runs on 1w and would chew through rechargeable batteries BT is much more efficient and low power.


But is that for the transmitter or receiver? Because you see 2.4ghz keyboard and mouse everywhere. Steelseries and other have also produced these headphones for usb c devices including the Switch that notoriously has low battery life:
https://www.google.com/amp/s/gizmod...the-wireless-headset-switch-fa-1837740081/amp


----------



## d3myz

marioho said:


> Cheking on *ADV M5-TWS* comments page on Indiegogo and they confirmed that it will have no volume or voice assistant control. That's a downer.
> 
> For this price range (USD 179 IIRC), these two little feats were a given in my opinion.
> 
> Guess it's time to look for a better option... I held my hopes high for this one.


WOW. this is some bull. Can some of you guys that own high end $100+ TWS' think of ANY that came out this year without volume control?


----------



## d3myz

acygni said:


> But is that for the transmitter or receiver? Because you see 2.4ghz keyboard and mouse everywhere. Steelseries and other have also produced these headphones for usb c devices including the Switch that notoriously has low battery life:
> https://www.google.com/amp/s/gizmod...the-wireless-headset-switch-fa-1837740081/amp


I'd imagine for the Transmitter, that headset must be using BT, that's what the PS4 and the Xbox use. it's 2.4ghz, but not wifi, which has much higher bandwidth. I could be wrong, but I looked it up once when I was wondering why the Sonos One didn't have a rechargeable battery.


----------



## acygni (Sep 9, 2019)

Fiio actually just created a sub brand jadeaudio and it is releasing it's first product the EW1, a TWS with aptx for $42 for limited time:

 
https://m.aliexpress.com/item/4000144336824.html


----------



## Shanling

Shanling MTW100 are now slowly starting to ship to our international distributors. MTW100 DD will be 79USD/EURO and MTW100 BA 89 USD/EURO.

We also have their official website up, if you wanna to look into all the details of MTW100.


----------



## acygni (Sep 8, 2019)

d3myz said:


> I'd imagine for the Transmitter, that headset must be using BT, that's what the PS4 and the Xbox use. it's 2.4ghz, but not wifi, which has much higher bandwidth. I could be wrong, but I looked it up once when I was wondering why the Sonos One didn't have a rechargeable battery.


That headset is 2.4ghz it even says it in the article. 2.4ghz uses same methods as wifi so the ps4 and xbox do support it since they can connect to the internet. The dongle pulls battery from the source so it may be possible that it pulling too much battery.


----------



## marioho

d3myz said:


> WOW. this is some bull****. Can some of you guys that own high end $100+ TWS' think of ANY that came out this year without volume control?


I hadn't heard that much about ADV before to grant the hype I had for this model. Now that they have clarified the issue - it was asked before but the reply derailed to another topic - it will be a task of finding reasons to justify the purchase. 

I'm not sure their products sound that good. Now I need to be convinced of that AND that they sound way better than the competition at this price tier.


----------



## Mouseman

marioho said:


> Cheking on *ADV M5-TWS* comments page on Indiegogo and they confirmed that it will have no volume or voice assistant control. That's a downer.
> 
> For this price range (USD 179 IIRC), these two little feats were a given in my opinion.
> 
> Guess it's time to look for a better option... I held my hopes high for this one.





d3myz said:


> WOW. this is some bull****. Can some of you guys that own high end $100+ TWS' think of ANY that came out this year without volume control?



I'm not trying to pound on the Advanced folks, but I can't figure out What they think they're doing here. No volume, no assistant, no mono mode, not a hybrid, no power off without the case. The sound only seems to be described as somewhat better than their model X. Who is going to pay $179 for this, let alone full price? Not me, that's for sure.


----------



## clerkpalmer

Shanling said:


> Shanling MTW100 are now slowly starting to ship to our international distributors. MTW100 DD will be 79USD/EURO and MTW100 BA 89 USD/EURO.
> 
> We also have their official website up, if you wanna to look into all the details of MTW100.



Is there a us distributor? Amazon? Can you comment on sq characteristics? I'm intrigued by the BA version as I dont own any BA tw.


----------



## d3myz

acygni said:


> That headset is 2.4ghz it even says it in the article. 2.4ghz uses same methods as wifi so the ps4 and xbox do support it since they can connect to the internet. The dongle pulls battery from the source so it may be possible that it pulling too much battery from the source.


2nd answer down. https://www.quora.com/Why-dont-wireless-headphones-use-wifi-instead-of-bluetooth


----------



## clerkpalmer

Mouseman said:


> I'm not trying to pound on the Advanced folks, but I can't figure out What they think they're doing here. No volume, no assistant, no mono mode, not a hybrid, no power off without the case. The sound only seems to be described as somewhat better than their model X. Who is going to pay $179 for this, let alone full price? Not me, that's for sure.



Looks like a misfire but if it is a rebrand (unclear atm), by using Indiegogo they have very little downside.  Limited advertising and virtually no development costs.


----------



## marioho

Mouseman said:


> I'm not trying to pound on the Advanced folks, but I can't figure out What they think they're doing here. No volume, no assistant, no mono mode, not a hybrid, no power off without the case. The sound only seems to be described as somewhat better than their model X. Who is going to pay $179 for this, let alone full price? Not me, that's for sure.



Hold on mate you saying those guns won't _even_ stop shooting without putting them back on holster?! What are they good for? Will I be able to pick up Mama's advice from the ethereal plane or something?

For real, though. Does ADVANCED have a remarkable sound quality at least or is it nothing to write home about?


----------



## d3myz

Mouseman said:


> I'm not trying to pound on the Advanced folks, but I can't figure out What they think they're doing here. No volume, no assistant, no mono mode, not a hybrid, no power off without the case. The sound only seems to be described as somewhat better than their model X. Who is going to pay $179 for this, let alone full price? Not me, that's for sure.


I'm about to burn their comment section of indiegogo to the ground. What, i'm pissed.


----------



## acygni (Sep 8, 2019)

d3myz said:


> 2nd answer down. https://www.quora.com/Why-dont-wireless-headphones-use-wifi-instead-of-bluetooth


I feel like some of those answer don't really know what they are talking about. 2.4ghz gives way higher datarate which is required to support streaming lossless audio. Even the best bt codec isn't really getting past the 1mbps mark so it really won't even transmit 16bit flac properly. Also ppl had tried to introduce wireless audio codec with 2.4ghz like KleerNet. And you dont have to connect to wifi your device just needs to have the wifi module. Actually it just has to be compatible with wifi module since the dongle can include the module. The battery drain is the only restraint that can really convince me.


----------



## Mouseman

marioho said:


> Hold on mate you saying those guns won't _even_ stop shooting without putting them back on holster?! What are they good for? Will I be able to pick up Mama's advice from the ethereal plane or something?
> 
> For real, though. Does ADVANCED have a remarkable sound quality at least or is it nothing to write home about?



Ummm...no? 
I have some of their wired gear that I bought before I fell into the Head-fi rabbit hole, I'd say the sound is only OK. Nowhere near fantastic.


----------



## actorlife

Shanling said:


> Shanling MTW100 are now slowly starting to ship to our international distributors. MTW100 DD will be 79USD/EURO and MTW100 BA 89 USD/EURO.
> 
> We also have their official website up, if you wanna to look into all the details of MTW100.


Awesome love the colors and very interested in the BA version. Will you be sending review units to the US? I'll be first in line, happily.


----------



## marioho

d3myz said:


> I'm about to burn their comment section of indiegogo to the ground. What, i'm pissed.


I read your comment before seeing the picture, it didn't load at first on my phone. I thought meh, that's a little too much...

Now that I've read it though that's actually level headed and reasonable. Kudos




Mouseman said:


> Ummm...no?
> I have some of their wired gear that I bought before I fell into the Head-fi rabbit hole, I'd say the sound is only OK. Nowhere near fantastic.


Thank you.

I'm assuming they at least good enough as to have their campaigns get some traction here on head fi, even if not for all good reasons. I'll keep an eye on their indiegogo page hoping for an update.


----------



## gibletzor (Sep 9, 2019)

acygni said:


> I feel like some of those answer don't really know what they are talking about. 2.4ghz gives way higher datarate which is required to support streaming lossless audio. Even the best bt codec isn't really getting past the 1mbps mark so it really won't even transmit 16bit flac properly. Also ppl had tried to introduce wireless audio codec with 2.4ghz like KleerNet. And you dont have to connect to wifi your device just needs to have the wifi module. Actually it just has to be compatible with wifi module since the dongle can include the module. The battery drain is the only restraint that can really convince me.


2.4GHz is merely a transmission frequency.  Bluetooth, 802.11G, cordless telephones, and some IR devices all use that frequency range.  Most Wifi now uses 5 GHz though.  It seems like you're assuming anything that uses that transmission frequency will have the same bandwidth, but that is not the case.  Like you said, BT only gets around 1Mb transmission rates, but 802.11G would get 54Mb.  The power that wifi requires to send that much data at the ranges it is capable of would drain devices like a TWS in minutes, not hours.


----------



## gibletzor (Sep 9, 2019)

Anyone else using Samsung phones make use of the Adapt Sound feature?


----------



## acygni (Sep 9, 2019)

gibletzor said:


> 2.4GHz is merely a transmission frequency.  Bluetooth, 802.11G, cordless telephones, and some IR devices all use that frequency range.  Most Wifi now uses 5 GHz though.  It seems like you're assuming anything that uses that transmission frequency will have the same bandwidth, but that is not the case.  Like you said, BT only gets around 1Mb transmission rates, but 802.11G would get 54Mb.  The power that wifi requires to send that much data at the ranges it is capable of would drain devices like a TWS in minutes, not hours.


I know 2.4ghz just describes a frequency but it is also usually used in context of refereeing to the 2.4ghz rf tech that alot of wireless mouse, keyboards, headsets uses. There are many 802.11 standards and I believe they should be capable of developing or implementing something in the 2mbps range for audio transmission. The KleerNet codec was giving bout 1.4mbps.

It looks like even back it 2015 ppl have already implemented 2.4ghz on TWS too bad it did not gain traction:
https://www.audioxpress.com/news/He...er-Technology-Debut-at-2015-International-CES

And this part of the article is really interesting:
"According to HearNotes, a Kleer based earbud will be smaller and lighter than one using Bluetooth technology. This is because the Bluetooth radio needs more power and has to use a larger, heavier battery. “A Kleer based wireless earbud can operate for 10 hours with an 80mAhr coin cell type battery. A Bluetooth radio will operate for less than 1 hour with this size coin cell,” they explain."


----------



## FYLegend

actorlife said:


> Are there any TWS cases with an Included built-in speaker on the case? I know it's bound to happen if they have a watch, bottle, etc why wouldn't they?  Come on C you are the search whore.  I have a portable MP3 player(M320 in my sig) with BT 4.0 with a speaker in the back.


I saw something on Facebook sponsored posts a while back, can't remember what it was though.


gibletzor said:


> Looks like Audio-Technica is coming out with a couple new TWS models before the end of the year at $99 and $149.   I'm not sure if the Engadget writer made a typo but one says 15 hour battery life!


Seems to be legit as the official Japanese site says the CKS5TW 15 hours single charge, 45 hours with the case. Not a big fan of the aesthetics though... wish TWS all looked more like ATH-IM70 or ATH-LS series...

A bit odd CKS3TW supports AptX but not AAC. I wonder if the restriction is down to firmware rather than hardware, since so many dirt-cheap devices support AAC.


----------



## FYLegend

acygni said:


> Fiio actually just created a sub brand jadeaudio and it is releasing it's first product the EW1, a TWS with aptx for $42 for limited time:
> 
> https://m.aliexpress.com/item/4000144336824.html


You had me until i saw an unboxing video that shows it is MicroUSB! I could say differently about other companies, but knowing Fiio has released many Type C products it is an oversight.


----------



## acygni

FYLegend said:


> You had me until i saw an unboxing video that shows it is MicroUSB! I could say differently about other companies, but knowing Fiio has released many Type C products it is an oversight.


It's kinda their entry product for the lowest price point hopefully they got something more serious coming up.


----------



## d3myz

gibletzor said:


> 2.4GHz is merely a transmission frequency.  Bluetooth, 802.11G, cordless telephones, and some IR devices all use that frequency range.  Most Wifi now uses 5 GHz though.  It seems like you're assuming anything that uses that transmission frequency will have the same bandwidth, but that is not the case.  Like you said, BT only gets around 1Mb transmission rates, but 802.11G would get 54Mb.  The power that wifi requires to send that much data at the ranges it is capable of would drain devices like a TWS in minutes, not hours.


Thiss ^^^ also, as the article mentioned that BT is a single connection and wifi continually searches for Access Points, which results in battery drain. Ever notice how your phones battery drains when you are roaming and it's searching for service? Same concept. BT is a purpose built solution. Also, I don't know much about LDAC, but I haven't seen many TWS's that support it. Anyone know of any? I"m assuming the new sony's do.


----------



## acygni

d3myz said:


> Thiss ^^^ also, as the article mentioned that BT is a single connection and wifi continually searches for Access Points, which results in battery drain. Ever notice how your phones battery drains when you are roaming and it's searching for service? Same concept. BT is a purpose built solution. Also, I don't know much about LDAC, but I haven't seen many TWS's that support it. Anyone know of any? I"m assuming the new sony's do.


Um i dont think wifi is really the problem as this product in 2015 already shown:
https://www.audioxpress.com/news/He...er-Technology-Debut-at-2015-International-CES
It just didn't catch traction.

And as far as I know current TWS standards from Qualcomm currently only supports upto aptx non hd


----------



## Shanling

clerkpalmer said:


> Is there a us distributor? Amazon? Can you comment on sq characteristics? I'm intrigued by the BA version as I dont own any BA tw.



MusicTeck is our main dealer in USA, they list our products also on Amazon (yet there might be slight delay compared to their own e-shop).

BA (to my ears) is tuned to be sounding little bit more rich, mids focused, very smooth in treble, no problems with sibilance. I would say something like Shure 530. I use them often for Jazz, pop and especially like them for audiobooks and podcasts.

Dynamic is more V-shaped, brighter overall, with thinner mids. More energetic, more dynamic, more aggressive.



actorlife said:


> Awesome love the colors and very interested in the BA version. Will you be sending review units to the US? I'll be first in line, happily.



We will be sending out samples this week, not sure if we have some left, can send me PM if interested.


----------



## gibletzor

acygni said:


> Um i dont think wifi is really the problem as this product in 2015 already shown:
> https://www.audioxpress.com/news/He...er-Technology-Debut-at-2015-International-CES
> It just didn't catch traction.
> 
> And as far as I know current TWS standards from Qualcomm currently only supports upto aptx non hd



That is not WiFi though.  That Kleer audio codec just uses a 2.4 GHz frequency similar to bluetooth, wifi, etc.., just using different hardware.  Also, BT 5.0 has a higher transmission rate now than Kleer did then.  That tech having low enough power usage to be used in a TWS has no bearing on whether Wifi could be used...


----------



## acygni (Sep 9, 2019)

gibletzor said:


> That is not WiFi though.  That Kleer audio codec just uses a 2.4 GHz frequency similar to bluetooth, wifi, etc.., just using different hardware.  Also, BT 5.0 has a higher transmission rate now than Kleer did then.  That tech having low enough power usage to be used in a TWS has no bearing on whether Wifi could be used...


Yes I was bringing up 2.4ghz and ppl think I was just referring to the frequency then we start to refer to all the 802.11 standards wifi so I just followed it isn't important. BT5.0 has theoretical datarate of bout 2mbps but the best codec ldac/hwa both only borderlines 1mbps. 802.11 or other rf standards can give way more but kleer may had settle for 1.4mbps for energy efficiency i don't really know. But that is still better than bt codecs and necessary for 16bit flac transmission

Ultimately true wireless hifi won't really be ready until a codec can acheive 1.7mbps+. On the other hand the best lossy format imo acc vbr -v0 only requires about 350kbps so I understand why TWS support upto just that with aptx right now.


----------



## CardigdanWalk

So my KZ T1 seem to have their left and right side disconnected.

When I turn them on they now act as two independent one ear pieces, anyone have any idea how I can get them to sync again ... no buttons makes it hard!


----------



## VTman

https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B07WC219R3/ref=cm_cr_arp_mb_bdcrb_top?ie=UTF8

Has anyone ever tried these out? Shape of the buds looks similar to those UFO models (359, R18, BE30...), but come with a very different charging case and Qualcomm BT chip. Wondering how do they sound.

Newbie here. Never owned any TWS but interested to try.


----------



## charleski

acygni said:


> Yes I was bringing up 2.4ghz and ppl think I was just referring to the frequency then we start to refer to all the 802.11 standards wifi so I just followed it isn't important. BT5.0 has theoretical datarate of bout 2mbps but the best codec ldac/hwa both only borderlines 1mbps. 802.11 or other rf standards can give way more but kleer may had settle for 1.4mbps for energy efficiency i don't really know. But that is still better than bt codecs and necessary for 16bit flac transmission
> 
> Ultimately true wireless hifi won't really be ready until a codec can acheive 1.7mbps+. On the other hand the best lossy format imo acc vbr -v0 only requires about 350kbps so I understand why TWS support upto just that with aptx right now.


You need to remember there's a difference between theoretical data rates and the actual rate that can be used in an environment with small, sub-optimal antennae and multiple other devices also transmitting on the same band, and that's all linked into the power requirements. 

I'd take HearNotes' claims with a massive pinch of salt. These never saw the light of day and looking at their Kickstarter page it seems like a classic KS screw-up from people who don't understand the difficulties involved in real product design. In Dec 2015 (half a year after they were supposed to ship) they post an update saying they're fundamentally redesigning the speaker ... What? Then in July 2016 there's a rambling post accusing people of stealing their technology. The only indication that 'Kleer technology' worked at all is a few demos under carefully controlled conditions, and there's no proof I can find that they were ever actually transmitting lossless audio. You're not going to hear the difference between that and something like SBC through a quick listen at a noisy trade show.

It all looks like BS to me, frankly.


----------



## acygni (Sep 9, 2019)

charleski said:


> You need to remember there's a difference between theoretical data rates and the actual rate that can be used in an environment with small, sub-optimal antennae and multiple other devices also transmitting on the same band, and that's all linked into the power requirements.
> 
> I'd take HearNotes' claims with a massive pinch of salt. These never saw the light of day and looking at their Kickstarter page it seems like a classic KS screw-up from people who don't understand the difficulties involved in real product design. In Dec 2015 (half a year after they were supposed to ship) they post an update saying they're fundamentally redesigning the speaker ... What? Then in July 2016 there's a rambling post accusing people of stealing their technology. The only indication that 'Kleer technology' worked at all is a few demos under carefully controlled conditions, and there's no proof I can find that they were ever actually transmitting lossless audio. You're not going to hear the difference between that and something like SBC through a quick listen at a noisy trade show.
> 
> It all looks like BS to me, frankly.


Yea I was surprised to find that Kleer TWS from 2015 when I was searching about the tech too. I never looked up what happened to it. But I think the Kleer codec is pretty legit there are chips that support it and desktop dac/amp that use it. My original question was just why aren't manufacturers producing more 2.4ghz rf products that support lossless streaming. Kleer was just something I found in my search.


----------



## charleski

acygni said:


> Yea I was surprised to find that Kleer TWS from 2015 when I was searching about the tech too. I never looked up what happened to it. But I think the Kleer codec is pretty legit there are chips that support it and desktop dac/amp that use it. My original question was just why aren't manufacturers producing more 2.4ghz rf products that support lossless streaming. Kleer was just something I found in my search.


It looks like Kleer has been around for a long time. I found this paper from 2007 that touts its advantages, but it rings a few alarm bells. They make a bizarre claim that the use of a single channel provides superior rejection of interference to the spread-spectrum technique used by Bluetooth. In fact, the entire point of using spread-spectrum frequency-hopping multi-channel communication is to avoid interference. There were a few products made using Kleer that actually got out the door, but they didn't make a splash. One review I found said they were getting dropouts even with the source transmitter in their shirt pocket, though another said they didn't experience any problems.


----------



## willyk (Sep 9, 2019)

Got to spend plenty of time this past weekend with the Tranya B530's.  Here is a quick hit list of thoughts about them, and some contrasts with the MPow T5's from my perspective...

- The sound quality is very balanced across the audio spectrum, articulate mids and highs - better than the T5's
- The fit and build quality are excellent, on par with T5's
- I like the see-through case, but the lid feels like it will only open/close a limited number of times before it comes off, T5's case is better overall
- Touch controls work great, except when running.  When running, I find any type of touch control less positive and when I am sweating and working hard, it's a pain to get my tap technique perfect, especially on a moving target.  The T5's tactile controls work better for me in that situation
- BT connectivity outdoors when running is really key for me, as I use music to dictate my cadence - so the next beat has to be there, reliably.  To make things more challenging, I use a Garmin watch as my audio source, and it does not have a strong signal like my phone has.  When running I find the B530's to have far more drop-outs than the T5's.  In a 50-minute workout, the T5's may drop once - sometimes not at all. maybe.  But the B530's can't seem to go more than a couple of minutes without drop-outs.  For me, I can't use them when running, the T5's will need to be my go-to.  For reference, I always pair outdoors in the environment that I will be in, in the event that BT 5.0 is calibrating signal strength during pairing/handshake. 

I wonder if this is a Realtek vs QualComm thing?
Maybe I should try a reset?

*edit*
I tried a reset per the manual.  No dice.
Either my B530's are defective in some way, or they just can't match the BT performance of the MPow T5's, or other non-TWS earbuds I've used for running with a Garmin watch.


----------



## Caipirina

CardigdanWalk said:


> So my KZ T1 seem to have their left and right side disconnected.
> 
> When I turn them on they now act as two independent one ear pieces, anyone have any idea how I can get them to sync again ... no buttons makes it hard!


Have you tried long ‘pressing’ the touch fields to get some kind of reset? 

The below is for a DIFFERENT Touch only TWS and there is no guarantee it will work on the KZs ... my problem was also different as the master did not even look for the slave ... but who knows. But if they explode, don’t blame me ...


----------



## Soreniglio

Areabi sent me a message in which they were glad I bought their product and gave me the delivery time (texted me via Amazon message center). 

I have to be honest, it was a nice thing they did.


----------



## DDDYKI

I think Master & Dynamic have some new product on the way. B&H Photo shows some new items from them named MW07 Go True Wireless and MW07 Plus Wireless. I can't find any information online about either one, but they seem to be using the same MW07 that the existing TW models have. Maybe the Plus is an upgrade and the Go is a stripped down model?


----------



## tlau1125

DDDYKI said:


> I think Master & Dynamic have some new product on the way. B&H Photo shows some new items from them named MW07 Go True Wireless and MW07 Plus Wireless. I can't find any information online about either one, but they seem to be using the same MW07 that the existing TW models have. Maybe the Plus is an upgrade and the Go is a stripped down model?


According to some Japanese websites, the Plus version will have ANC.


----------



## clerkpalmer

tlau1125 said:


> According to some Japanese websites, the Plus version will have ANC.



Whelp - it's Monday morning so I might as well spend $299!


----------



## clerkpalmer

Looks like B&H jumped the gun no?  Official announcement any minute now?  Might explain the recent sales on the MW07.  Now, can an ANC enabled MW07 best my moondrop + BT20?  We shall see.


----------



## DDDYKI

tlau1125 said:


> According to some Japanese websites, the Plus version will have ANC.


I shudder to think what the battery life of this new model would be. 3.5 hours might be acceptable with an ANC mode, but it seems the original model could barely make that number without it.


----------



## Caipirina (Sep 9, 2019)

Mailman brought me these 2 beautiful chess pieces  I will have some more impressions later (maybe), but for now:

- Pairing was super painful, probably because I got a pair that had forgotten about each other. But kudos to the seller who was very eager to help, patiently looked for deeper instructions (I think he actually called the factory) and came up with this wild mix of button presses I posted earlier...  lo-and behold, suddenly a voice said ‘looking for slave’... and the lost lovers found each other!

- sound wise I am liking what I am hearing so far. Sound is full, dynamic, engaging. Nothing rubs me negatively, there's ample bass, clarity, highs ... the usual. But needs further listening. Oh, comes with FOUR ear tip sizes (s m l xl) and I am getting a great fit, but yes, they are sticky-outy

- case has type C plug

- ANC .... I can’t be certain if I am actually hearing a difference, but I had the same sensation with both ANC Sonys I have. There might actually be some subtle ANC, but since the passive NC is already pretty great, and the announcement of ‘ANC on / off’ is so loud, it’s hard to register. Further testing required.

- no IPX rating

- 13mm ‘horn’ (DD I guess  )

They look and feel quite premium ... not flimsy that plastic.


----------



## clerkpalmer

DDDYKI said:


> I shudder to think what the battery life of this new model would be. 3.5 hours might be acceptable with an ANC mode, but it seems the original model could barely make that number without it.



I am guessing a switch to BT 5.0 will help a lot with battery life.  MW07 runs on 4.1 I believe.


----------



## webvan

Caipirina said:


> Mailman brought me these 2 beautiful chess pieces  I will have some more impressions later (maybe), but for now:
> 
> - Pairing was super painful, probably because I got a pair that had forgotten about each other. But kudos to the seller who was very eager to help, patiently looked for deeper instructions (I think he actually called the factory) and came up with this wild mix of button presses I posted earlier...  lo-and behold, suddenly a voice said ‘looking for slave’... and the lost lovers found each other!
> 
> ...



13mm drivers?!

Sorry to hear about the ANC. You could try playing a YouTube Cabin Sound video really loud to see if it makes a difference. There is a significant one with the WF-1000mx3 (unlike with the WF-1000x).


----------



## hifi80sman

clerkpalmer said:


> I am guessing a switch to BT 5.0 will help a lot with battery life.  MW07 runs on 4.1 I believe.


The MW07 use BT 4.2, but what's interesting, is if they will keep multipoint in the new versions.  The MW07 is one of the few TWS that have multipoint (I can connect to both my Galaxy and iPhone at the same time).  I play music with my Galaxy over aptX and receive calls over my iPhone, which is my main phone.


----------



## Caipirina

webvan said:


> 13mm drivers?!
> 
> Sorry to hear about the ANC. You could try playing a YouTube Cabin Sound video really loud to see if it makes a difference. There is a significant one with the WF-1000mx3 (unlike with the WF-1000x).



I tested by standing directly underneath the AC unit  

yep, they point out those 13mm quite often


----------



## acygni

Caipirina said:


> I tested by standing directly underneath the AC unit
> 
> yep, they point out those 13mm quite often


Feel like all these TWS promoting lossless sound quality are lawsuits waiting to happen but then they will just argue they are referring to lossless playback of ambiance sound


----------



## Caipirina

acygni said:


> Feel like all these TWS promoting lossless sound quality are lawsuits waiting to happen but then they will just argue they are referring to lossless playback of ambiance sound



I am also finding that they love to play with all those fancy buzzwords they might pick up here and there .. .like I saw this 26$ ANC TWS, later they 'explained' this is 'adaptive noise cancelling = pure ANC' ... soooo ... not ever really trusting those descriptions ... or at least really reading the details ...


----------



## hifi80sman

acygni said:


> Feel like all these TWS promoting lossless sound quality are lawsuits waiting to happen but then they will just argue they are referring to lossless playback of ambiance sound


You can sue a company in China...if you want to.


----------



## d3myz

Just wanted to add some info I received from Advanced concerning the M5-TWS. I e-mailed them offline and addressed the issue of the Premium Price for a TWS missing these functionalities, they didn't respond to that but I was assured that I would be able to return them within 30 days of receipt for a full refund If I was not satisfied, so at least i'll get to hear them.


----------



## lilo27 (Sep 9, 2019)

clerkpalmer said:


> Looks like B&H jumped the gun no?  Official announcement any minute now?  Might explain the recent sales on the MW07.  Now, can an ANC enabled MW07 best my moondrop + BT20?  We shall see.



Really randomly, seems as someone actually posted a quick hands on on youtube of the Plus model. They are saying 10 hours of battery for the earbuds and 40 total if I understand correctly



Also from this article:
-Bluetooth 5.0
-ANC feature
-Improved call quality
-Coming out end of September


----------



## clerkpalmer

lilo27 said:


> Really randomly, seems as someone actually posted a quick hands on on youtube of the Plus model. They are saying 10 hours of battery for the earbuds and 40 total if I understand correctly
> 
> 
> 
> ...





lilo27 said:


> Really randomly, seems as someone actually posted a quick hands on on youtube of the Plus model. They are saying 10 hours of battery for the earbuds and 40 total if I understand correctly



THEY.  WILL.  BE.  MINE.


----------



## clerkpalmer

clerkpalmer said:


> THEY.  WILL.  BE.  MINE.



They box does not mention ANC.  I'm skeptical of that one.  You can't get 10 hours with ANC.  Seems like plus is just longer battery life.  I wonder what the MW07 Go will bring to the table.


----------



## lilo27

clerkpalmer said:


> They box does not mention ANC.  I'm skeptical of that one.  You can't get 10 hours with ANC.  Seems like plus is just longer battery life.  I wonder what the MW07 Go will bring to the table.



Sounds fishy for sure but found a few more articles (translated) mentioning ANC, i.e here so let's see


----------



## webvan

Thanks for the links. So the MW07 Plus was shown at IFA ? Strange that nobody else had mentioned them !
They must have changed chips, the QCC5121 possibly ? That's the one used by the Libratone Track Air + and the reviews all state that the ANC isn't great compared to the WF-1000xm3, but then they are semi in-ear earbuds so that can't help with noise cancelling...although the Bose QC-20 are also semi in-ear.


----------



## TK33

clerkpalmer said:


> They box does not mention ANC.  I'm skeptical of that one.  You can't get 10 hours with ANC.  Seems like plus is just longer battery life.  I wonder what the MW07 Go will bring to the table.



Been waiting for them to upgrade the MW07 since they started going on sale.  I seem to be one of the few around here that prefers no ANC (gives me a headache) but with good SQ and better battery life, I will probably pull the trigger on one of the models.  Looking forward to more details.


----------



## clerkpalmer

TK33 said:


> Been waiting for them to upgrade the MW07 since they started going on sale.  I seem to be one of the few around here that prefers no ANC (gives me a headache) but with good SQ and better battery life, I will probably pull the trigger on one of the models.  Looking forward to more details.



ANC throws me off a bit too but it would be useful for the gym and allow me to lower the volume level.


----------



## hifi80sman

lilo27 said:


> Really randomly, seems as someone actually posted a quick hands on on youtube of the Plus model. They are saying 10 hours of battery for the earbuds and 40 total if I understand correctly
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Sounds as if that was at IFA 2019.  I'm not sure if 10 hours is an over-hyped claim or not, since I have not tested them, but based on the standard MW07 claim of 3.5 hours, we're probably a bit short of that (their criteria for measurement was supposedly play at low volume).

Nevertheless, it would seem they'd be well over double the battery life and are quite compelling if the sound with ANC on is nearly equal to ANC off.  If the sound with ANC on is poor, then the question is do you pay the additional $50 (standard is going for $249 now) for more than double the battery.  In many cases, I suspect it would be, since most people exclusively use one TWS throughout the day.  For me, since I rotate through various TWS in a day, I'll probably just stick with my MW07 (still in the return period btw) and use that cash savings for another new TWS.  

Bowers & Wilkins, where you guys at with a TWS?!  Come on, bruh!


----------



## tlau1125

lilo27 said:


> Sounds fishy for sure but found a few more articles (translated) mentioning ANC, i.e here so let's see


This is a related link from a japanese web site: https://www.phileweb.com/news/d-av/201909/07/48377.html


----------



## tlau1125

tlau1125 said:


> This is a related link from a japanese web site: https://www.phileweb.com/news/d-av/201909/07/48377.html


Google translate: "The MW07 PLUS is newly equipped with an active noise canceling function based on a feedback / feedforward microphone system combination. It also has an external sound capture mode. Four microphones are built in to improve quality during hands-free calling."


----------



## hifi80sman

tlau1125 said:


> Google translate: "The MW07 PLUS is newly equipped with an active noise canceling function based on a feedback / feedforward microphone system combination. It also has an external sound capture mode. Four microphones are built in to improve quality during hands-free calling."


Nice...it could use better call quality.  I wish they would have gone with a brushed stainless case...


----------



## FYLegend

VTman said:


> https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B07WC219R3/ref=cm_cr_arp_mb_bdcrb_top?ie=UTF8
> 
> Has anyone ever tried these out? Shape of the buds looks similar to those UFO models (359, R18, BE30...), but come with a very different charging case and Qualcomm BT chip. Wondering how do they sound.
> 
> Newbie here. Never owned any TWS but interested to try.


If these are USB Type C they have me sold! I also see G-Wack has a variant of the UFO with a percentage indicator (its description says microUSB, but thankfully reviewers say it's USB-C, although I doubt it supports PD charging).


----------



## jant71

At IFA, Aukey has a fitness watch bud combo coming...






* Aukey Smartband-Stored True Wireless Earbuds*
On the outside, the Aukey is a standard fitness tracker with a touch-screen display and rubber watch band attached. It tracks fitness and sleep while also providing smartphone notifications. It also has up to a week's worth of battery life. But the most interesting part is that it also doubles as a charger for wireless earbuds, which reside on each side of the case. To take them out, simply press down on the right and left side of the watch and the ear buds pop out. The buds come with 5.5 hours of battery life, noise isolation, and are splash as well as sweat-proof.


----------



## VTman

FYLegend said:


> The other day I saw a "Lyperkin" TWS with AptX, basically a rebrand of YTOM T1-AptX/WaveFun X-Pods 3. I was considering them but one of the users here said it was a let-down with disconnects and poor tuning. So AptX doesn't always mean better sound...
> 
> Creative Outlier Air has mixed impressions here, but unfortunately Creative SG said there aren't shipping to Canada yet.



https://detail.1688.com/offer/597644591604.html
Accidentally found this link. Looks like the actual factory behind WaveFun/YTOM T1/Lyperkin T1...


----------



## hifi80sman

FYLegend said:


> If these are USB Type C they have me sold! I also see G-Wack has a variant of the UFO with a percentage indicator (its description says microUSB, but thankfully reviewers say it's USB-C, although I doubt it supports PD charging).


You and your charging fetish.


----------



## howdy

I will most likely have to try the MW07 plus to see if the fit is a bit different, they certainly have an amazing sound which is makes me always wanting to try them again with different applications. I may have to sell my B&O to purchase these.

I'm still quiet happy with the Sony XM3, they definitely still check all boxes. I have been comparing them to my 2nd favorite, the Senneheiser MTW, both are great (still preferring the XM3s).


----------



## hifi80sman

VTman said:


> https://detail.1688.com/offer/597644591604.html
> Accidentally found this link. Looks like the actual factory behind WaveFun/YTOM T1/Lyperkin T1...


Yeah, they all come from Shenzhen.


----------



## mattedialdoc

LordToneeus said:


> Oh, have a gander at these beauties coming up for a Lightning Deal tomorrow morning at 4 am:
> 
> https://smile.amazon.com/dp/B07TWPS..._m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_r=KM2XSZ3A391D2S0NWZF7
> 
> ...



Hi Newbie here, but been following this thread for a good bit. I ordered a pair of these and they arrived today. A little background: I’ve tried about a half dozen TW earbuds thus far....Tranya T1 Pro, Creative Outlier Air, Taotronics, Airpods, etc. 

Today these Panfrey arrived, along with the Tranya B530. I’m going to spend some time with both, but out of the box these Panfrey have superior SQ. Also the touch controls are more responsive. And they have a smaller charging case that utilizes USB-C. 
I’m new to evaluating the technical specs, such as what chips and drivers each have, so if others want to chime in on that please do. I just took a chance on another ChiFi and they sound darn good.


----------



## VTman

FYLegend said:


> If these are USB Type C they have me sold! I also see G-Wack has a variant of the UFO with a percentage indicator (its description says microUSB, but thankfully reviewers say it's USB-C, although I doubt it supports PD charging).



https://www.amazon.com/SSK-Bluetooth-Headphones-Sweatproof-Microphone/dp/B07R8TPND5
Looks like this one has a type-c port...


----------



## ubertriad

How loud is the Sony WF1000XM3 compared to the Sennheiser MTW?

I found the Sennheisers to be very limited in max volume.


----------



## Tavleen Suri

ubertriad said:


> How loud is the Sony WF1000XM3 compared to the Sennheiser MTW?
> 
> I found the Sennheisers to be very limited in max volume.


I would love to know that too


----------



## d3myz

Just received my replacement OFUSHO F16's today, i'm please to report the bass is much tighter and mids and high end sound MUCH cleaner! Even though these thinks are giant, I still really like them!


----------



## hifi80sman (Sep 9, 2019)

mattedialdoc said:


> Hi Newbie here, but been following this thread for a good bit. I ordered a pair of these and they arrived today. A little background: I’ve tried about a half dozen TW earbuds thus far....Tranya T1 Pro, Creative Outlier Air, Taotronics, Airpods, etc.
> 
> Today these Panfrey arrived, along with the Tranya B530. I’m going to spend some time with both, but out of the box these Panfrey have superior SQ. Also the touch controls are more responsive. And they have a smaller charging case that utilizes USB-C.
> I’m new to evaluating the technical specs, such as what chips and drivers each have, so if others want to chime in on that please do. I just took a chance on another ChiFi and they sound darn good.


I almost feel some of these names are subtle Chi-Fi attempts at self-deprecating humor.  

"Panfrey" = Pan Fry    
"Besdio" = Best Deal (Chinese accent)

Glad to hear these sound good.  The "MEGIVEZ" version with the same shell, sound REALLY bad.


----------



## hifi80sman

Just discovered the House of Marley Liberate Air have multipoint.  Streaming aptX from Galaxy s8 and receiving calls on iPhone Xs Max.

So far, these are the best balance between sound, price, and battery life.  The do, however, lack volume controls and ambient.  I'd actually place these as the 2nd best TWS sound-wise I've personally tried, right behind the MW07.


----------



## mattedialdoc

hifi80sman said:


> I almost feel some of these names are subtle Chi-Fi attempts at self-deprecating humor.
> 
> "Panfrey" = Pan Fry
> "Besdio" = Best Deal (Chinese accent)
> ...



Interesting. Those MEGIVEZ have to be the same model. Maybe I don’t know what sounds good


----------



## hifi80sman

hifi80sman said:


> Just discovered the House of Marley Liberate Air have multipoint.  Streaming aptX from Galaxy s8 and receiving calls on iPhone Xs Max.
> 
> So far, these are the best balance between sound, price, and battery life.  The do, however, lack volume controls and ambient.  I'd actually place these as the 2nd best TWS sound-wise I've personally tried, right behind the MW07.


OK, quick update.  It's not true multipoint.  It's connected to "Media Audio" only on my Galaxy s8, however, since I don't get calls on that phone and purely use it for aptX streaming, it fits my purpose.


----------



## albau (Sep 9, 2019)

howdy said:


> I will most likely have to try the MW07 plus to see if the fit is a bit different, they certainly have an amazing sound which is makes me always wanting to try them again with different applications.


Besides better battery life in a new iteration of MW07 I personally most of all want from M&D not to screw up the fabulous, almost audiophile-level SQ with things like ANC. Obviously anybody who spent money and time on this forum knows that there's no limit on improving SQ. And I will applaud it, whether it comes in a form of better, larger, more beryllium  drivers and even more refined acoustic tuning and/or improved codecs (AptX HD, etc.). Better call quality would be nice as well as BT5.  Although with my usage of MW07 vs T5 and 389 I didn't notice them being any more drop-out prone. Otherwise, battery notwithstanding, I'm really happy with everything about MW07 - SOUND, functionality (volume, multipoint), interface (vertical tactile buttons that don't push in, double buttons for volume), fit and isolation, design and looks, beauty, craftsmanship and quality (they ooze all three).

PS. Oh, forgot. what else I really want is BA (or better hybrid) variant of MW07!


----------



## hifi80sman

albau said:


> PS. Oh, forgot. what else I really want is BA (or better hybrid) variant of MW07!


Oh, man!  Don't get me too excited!

Even without considering ANC, the battery life and mic for calls make the new version compelling.  If they add app control, I would certainly pick them up.

I wonder what the MW07 Go is going to be.  I imagine they'll do without the acetate, the stainless case, and add some good IP resistance, but I'm sure it'll still be high end.


----------



## chinmie

Caipirina said:


> Mailman brought me these 2 beautiful chess pieces  I will have some more impressions later (maybe), but for now:
> 
> - Pairing was super painful, probably because I got a pair that had forgotten about each other. But kudos to the seller who was very eager to help, patiently looked for deeper instructions (I think he actually called the factory) and came up with this wild mix of button presses I posted earlier...  lo-and behold, suddenly a voice said ‘looking for slave’... and the lost lovers found each other!
> 
> ...



eagerly waiting for your full review 
it doesn't have volume control if I'm not mistaken? I'm mostly concern about how it fits and looks, also how effective the ANC works, as I'm planning to use them for my riding helmet.


----------



## albau

hifi80sman said:


> Even without considering ANC, the battery life and mic for calls make the new version compelling.  If they add app control, I would certainly pick them up.


Actually initially I was also clamoring for the app. But now I have to ask what I would need it for so badly? MW07 don't have transparency and i'm not really missing it. When I need to talk to somebody at the gym I just take out one bud and it auto-pauses. EQ? I always listen to them on flat. They sound excellent for most of the well recorded music, and I like their overall coloring. If I want balanced and neutral I reach out to my full-size wired AKGs at home. And I'm really suspicious about ANC in a such small package. Adding more mics and more resident electronics almost always means subtracting from the space left for drivers, acoustics and battery. There're zillion pure wireless buds that are first electronic gadgets and last things for enjoying high-end sound. Let at least one prioritize latter over former.



hifi80sman said:


> I wonder what the MW07 Go is going to be.  I imagine they'll do without the acetate, the stainless case, and add some good IP resistance, but I'm sure it'll still be high end.


Agree. As long as they improve or at least keep the sound, existing functionality, fit and form factor I'm ok loosing the looks. But I have a stinking feeling that they'll also drop volume control and/or, god forbid, beryllium drivers, and call it a bargain at $50 cheaper.


----------



## hifi80sman

albau said:


> Actually initially I was also clamoring for the app. But now I have to ask what I would need it for so badly? MW07 don't have transparency and i'm not really missing it. When I need to talk to somebody at the gym I just take out one bud and it auto-pauses. EQ? I always listen to them on flat. They sound excellent for most of the well recorded music, and I like their overall coloring. If I want balanced and neutral I reach out to my full-size wired AKGs at home. And I'm really suspicious about ANC in a such small package. Adding more mics and more resident electronics almost always means subtracting from the space left for drivers, acoustics and battery. There're zillion pure wireless buds that are first electronic gadgets and last things for enjoying high-end sound. Let at least one prioritize latter over former.
> 
> Agree. As long as they improve or at least keep the sound, existing functionality, fit and form factor I'm ok loosing the looks. But I have a stinking feeling that they'll also drop volume control and/or, god forbid, beryllium drivers, and call it a bargain at $50 cheaper.


Good point on the App.  Honestly, I wouldn't change the EQ, but more so something to allow for firmware updates, codec control, etc.


----------



## howdy

ubertriad said:


> How loud is the Sony WF1000XM3 compared to the Sennheiser MTW?
> 
> I found the Sennheisers to be very limited in max volume.


They are the same as far as I can tell. I think both go plenty loud I usually listen 3 clicks below max on both.


----------



## howdy

albau said:


> PS. Oh, forgot. what else I really want is BA (or better hybrid) variant of MW07!


Im fairly certain my Earin M2 have Knowles BA in them. They sound good and better yet they are super small.


----------



## actorlife

Tested the B530 dialog with a movie on Prime video yesterday and the SQ is really good and clear. Man I was expecting roll off but no its crispy clear and bass parts were good. Shocked. Tranya did good so far. From what I gather from reviews most of their other TWS are rolled off with great bass. Will try some music tommorow they have been getting alot of music burn-in. I really I'm surprised I'm digging them. Darnit.


----------



## d3myz

actorlife said:


> Tested the B530 dialog with a movie on Prime video yesterday and the SQ is really good and clear. Man I was expecting roll off but no its crispy clear and bass parts were good. Shocked. Tranya did good so far. From what I gather from reviews most of their other TWS are rolled off with great bass. Will try some music tommorow they have been getting alot of music burn-in. I really I'm surprised I'm digging them. Darnit.


Now, i'd like to know how you'd compare the F16 to the B530. to me, the B530 seems to be a bit wider soundstage wise, the highs are much clearer, but the mids and mid bass are definitely lower than the F16.


----------



## actorlife

d3myz said:


> Now, i'd like to know how you'd compare the F16 to the B530. to me, the B530 seems to be a bit wider soundstage wise, the highs are much clearer, but the mids and mid bass are definitely lower than the F16.


So far with movies I love both. Anbes 359 does great with movies too. 
d3myz Maybe I'm getting better audio with the F16 because of the aptx? Any of your stuff have aptx?


----------



## FYLegend

I also have suspicions on the reviews for the Ablegrid, I asked reviewers if it was "microusb or USB Type c" and within an hour got two answers that just said "no".

Seems like newer batches of BE30 are being rebranded into different things. Still curious about the BE30E which has a triangular housing not unlike Galaxy Buds or Tranya.

Did anyone get Sabbat E12 Ultras yet?  Wondering if they sound better and the battery is better.


----------



## Caipirina

chinmie said:


> eagerly waiting for your full review
> it doesn't have volume control if I'm not mistaken? I'm mostly concern about how it fits and looks, also how effective the ANC works, as I'm planning to use them for my riding helmet.



Just from how they stick out I think under-helmet is a no-go ... as for the ANC .. while it appears to be there, it is very very subtle, like the ANC in the first Sony TWS ... but I will do some more testing 
So far I really like how they sound. And that's so far only from streaming stuff from Mixcloud ... not the super lossless stuff  need to try some FLAC files. And yes, no vol control on buds.


----------



## chinmie

howdy said:


> Im fairly certain my Earin M2 have Knowles BA in them. They sound good and better yet they are super small.



yup, the M2 indeed has a single Knowles BA. by the way, how long does your M2 last nowadays? mine can't seem to past 3,5 hours anymore


----------



## howdy

chinmie said:


> yup, the M2 indeed has a single Knowles BA. by the way, how long does your M2 last nowadays? mine can't seem to past 3,5 hours anymore


I'm not sure but if I was to guess it would be over 3 hours.


----------



## openyoureyes

hifi80sman said:


> OK, quick update.  It's not true multipoint.  It's connected to "Media Audio" only on my Galaxy s8, however, since I don't get calls on that phone and purely use it for aptX streaming, it fits my purpose.




This is really interesting. Connecting two devices with only one for calls would be enough for me (games/movies --> Ipad / calls --> phone). Maybe this is possible with other True Wireless with the QCC-series from Qualcomm too? I really want ambient mode ...


----------



## Caipirina

The spoils from sales week keep coming in now. This is the Awei T6C as ‘recommended’ by actorlife 


 

First impressions: they work  they are not unpleasant to listen to. Good fit. Volume control. Wireless charging. And all that for 17.91$.  No complaints. More maybe later.


----------



## albau (Sep 10, 2019)

hifi80sman said:


> Good point on the App.  Honestly, I wouldn't change the EQ, but more so something to allow for firmware updates, codec control, etc.


Yeah, firmware updates! In a current MW07 they use simple, non-programmable QC chip (forgot the number) that doesn't allow for updates or EQ. Probably to save space and power consumption, and keep down the costs.


----------



## Caipirina

Shanling said:


> Shanling MTW100 are now slowly starting to ship to our international distributors. MTW100 DD will be 79USD/EURO and MTW100 BA 89 USD/EURO.
> 
> We also have their official website up, if you wanna to look into all the details of MTW100.



Interestingly I just stumbled over a listing on AliX with much higher pricing ... first adopter surcharge?   


 

I might get into the BA action some day when the prices are 'normal' and there might be a sale   They do look great!


----------



## mattedialdoc

mattedialdoc said:


> Hi Newbie here, but been following this thread for a good bit. I ordered a pair of these and they arrived today. A little background: I’ve tried about a half dozen TW earbuds thus far....Tranya T1 Pro, Creative Outlier Air, Taotronics, Airpods, etc.
> 
> Today these Panfrey arrived, along with the Tranya B530. I’m going to spend some time with both, but out of the box these Panfrey have superior SQ. Also the touch controls are more responsive. And they have a smaller charging case that utilizes USB-C.
> I’m new to evaluating the technical specs, such as what chips and drivers each have, so if others want to chime in on that please do. I just took a chance on another ChiFi and they sound darn good.



UPDATE:

Although I still feel the SQ is pretty decent, the BT connection doesn’t hold well. I just a workout of 30min Jump Rope and 30 min Treadmill, and the BT on the Panfrey didn’t hold as well. Also any shielding of the buds drops the connection btwn the two. I was comparing the B530 at the time, and those are better in all aspects. Also the B530’s kept a connection to my iPad when I walked from my basement to the 3rd floor of my house!! WTH.


----------



## hifi80sman

These look interesting.  Price is a little high, however.
https://www.amazon.com/Tribit-FlyBuds-Wireless-Earbuds-Built/dp/B07TZ425RV/


----------



## hifi80sman

Phiaton BA TWS:  https://www.amazon.com/Phiaton-Balanced-Armature-Wireless-Earbuds/dp/B07SPHHQKD/


----------



## actorlife

$29 Great deal: Wireless Earbuds 【Upgraded Graphene 3D Stereo Sound】 Bluetooth 5.0 with 28Hr Play Time Noise Cancelling HonShoop Lightweight Bluetooth Headphones Built-in Mic (Black2) https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07WJVTZN9/ref=cm_sw_r_sms_apa_i_-g.DDbTPE8SCQ


----------



## hifi80sman

actorlife said:


> $29 Great deal: Wireless Earbuds 【Upgraded Graphene 3D Stereo Sound】 Bluetooth 5.0 with 28Hr Play Time Noise Cancelling HonShoop Lightweight Bluetooth Headphones Built-in Mic (Black2) https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07WJVTZN9/ref=cm_sw_r_sms_apa_i_-g.DDbTPE8SCQ


SBC only?


----------



## JimmyR (Sep 10, 2019)

Hey guys...for those interested, the review of the Sabbat E12 Ultra by Gamesky is here...



Looks like a worthy upgrade over the originals: Aptx support, a (finally) proper mic with decent bg noise cancellation, true mono mode and an improved SQ, with still plenty of bass but better balance with mids and highs.

Almost sold to get myself a pair...


----------



## Darkestred

JimmyR said:


> Hey guys...for those interested, the review of the Sabbat E12 Ultra by Gamesky is here...
> 
> 
> 
> ...




This looks really good.  Definitely blowing away Adv M5 offering.  8+ hours would have been nicer...tempting.


----------



## actorlife

hifi80sman said:


> SBC only?


I think also AAC. Try them I think you like em. Did you get the Ofusho F16?


----------



## chinmie

JimmyR said:


> Hey guys...for those interested, the review of the Sabbat E12 Ultra by Gamesky is here...
> 
> 
> 
> ...




with no disrespect to Gamesky, but most of the time the way he describes the sound of a product doesn't really match to my own experience/opinion. i trust the Superreview guy more, because what he says usually similar to what i think about the product


----------



## hifi80sman

actorlife said:


> I think also AAC. Try them I think you like em. Did you get the Ofusho F16?


No, I did not try them yet.

Did you confirm AAC or you think AAC?


----------



## actorlife

hifi80sman said:


> No, I did not try them yet.
> 
> Did you confirm AAC or you think AAC?


I think. Sounds great though.


----------



## actorlife (Sep 10, 2019)

OK darn it having problems with the Tranya B530 linking together and pairing. I tried resetting and nothing. Was working fine until today. I guess I'll have to get another pair damn.
Clerkpalmer??? I remember you having issues did you get it resolved?


----------



## clerkpalmer

actorlife said:


> OK darn it having problems with the Tranya B530 linking together and pairing. I tried resetting and nothing. Was working fine until today. I guess I'll have to get another pair damn.
> Clerkpalmer??? I remember you having issues did you get it resolved?



It was a pia but I followed the reset instructions.  The key is to keep the buds within 5 cm of each other when removing from the case after resetting.  Good luck. Definitely not a simple procedure


----------



## actorlife (Sep 10, 2019)

clerkpalmer said:


> It was a pia but I followed the reset instructions.  The key is to keep the buds within 5 cm of each other when removing from the case after resetting.  Good luck. Definitely not a simple procedure


Tried a couple or more resets with the Tranya and only one side works when trying to re-pair on all my devices. I'm them sending back and reordering. I'm all for second chances. Plus I like the sound so far.


----------



## FYLegend

@actorlife This kept showing on my Facebook feed of a 2-in-1 TWS + speaker case. https://www.vissles.com/



hifi80sman said:


> These look interesting.  Price is a little high, however.
> https://www.amazon.com/Tribit-FlyBuds-Wireless-Earbuds-Built/dp/B07TZ425RV/



These look similar to Earfun Free. I recall Oluv saying Earfun was started up by people who formerly worked at Tribit.

The Marleys are still 150$ at Best Buy Canada. They called that a sale price at launch and for the Labour day but now it's the MSRP so I hope they will go lower Black Friday or Boxing Day. On the other hand with inflation they might actually go up someday.



chinmie said:


> with no disrespect to Gamesky, but most of the time the way he describes the sound of a product doesn't really match to my own experience/opinion. i trust the Superreview guy more, because what he says usually similar to what i think about the product


Yeah I kinda lost it when he said the originals were bass monsters. I think I got a dud where the right side has more bass (and it's quite deep for that, but lacking in midbass presence), but overall both sides sound very airy/mid-forward. However, I do wonder if some batches of the E12 have already had the tuning altered. Also would be nice to know whether the battery life is actually different or not.


----------



## Shanling

Caipirina said:


> Interestingly I just stumbled over a listing on AliX with much higher pricing ... first adopter surcharge?
> 
> I might get into the BA action some day when the prices are 'normal' and there might be a sale   They do look great!



Just some dumb Chinese seller. Not even sure if this is any of our official dealers on Aliexpress.

Normal listing should be available soon.


And to everybody who sent me PM about MTW100, will go over them today and give you response.


----------



## d3myz

actorlife said:


> OK darn it having problems with the Tranya B530 linking together and pairing. I tried resetting and nothing. Was working fine until today. I guess I'll have to get another pair damn.
> Clerkpalmer??? I remember you having issues did you get it resolved?


I had problems with them two at first, I followed the reset instructions, I think you have to cradle them? or just power them on until you hear reset, then wait like 15-20 seconds, then put them right next to each other and power them on. make sure BT is off on your device.


----------



## d3myz

I have posted in some other threads about this, specifically the Obscure Chinese Dac threads and gotten no responses,  so i'm really hoping someone can help me. I'm looking for a portable/pocket DAC player w/ BT that I can stream spotify to from an iphone or has it natively. I'd like to use it specifically for TWS'  BUT I was reading today that BT is an all digital signal that is converted using a DAC in the TWS' itself, so having a nicer DAC or amplification won't really matter Can anyone confirm this? @Slater @actorlife @clerkpalmer @FYLegend @hifi80sman or any of you other TWS addicts? Either way,

Here are a few i've been looking at. price range is $100-150.
Hidiz AP80 The Shanling M0, Fiio M6,  Cayin N3


----------



## Shanling

d3myz said:


> I have posted in some other threads about this, specifically the Obscure Chinese Dac threads and gotten no responses,  so i'm really hoping someone can help me. I'm looking for a portable/pocket DAC player w/ BT that I can stream spotify to from an iphone or has it natively. I'd like to use it specifically for TWS'  BUT I was reading today that BT is an all digital signal that is converted using a DAC in the TWS' itself, so having a nicer DAC or amplification won't really matter Can anyone confirm this? @Slater @actorlife @clerkpalmer @FYLegend @hifi80sman or any of you other TWS addicts? Either way,



TWS are all digital connection, transfer to analog signal happens inside them by their build in DAC(that is small part of main chip inside). So DAC in your player/phone has exactly zero effect on their sound.

If you want to use Spotify on your iPhone, just connect TWS to it. No device in between will bring any improvement.


----------



## vstolpner

d3myz said:


> I have posted in some other threads about this, specifically the Obscure Chinese Dac threads and gotten no responses,  so i'm really hoping someone can help me. I'm looking for a portable/pocket DAC player w/ BT that I can stream spotify to from an iphone or has it natively. I'd like to use it specifically for TWS'  BUT I was reading today that BT is an all digital signal that is converted using a DAC in the TWS' itself, so having a nicer DAC or amplification won't really matter Can anyone confirm this? @Slater @actorlife @clerkpalmer @FYLegend @hifi80sman or any of you other TWS addicts? Either way,
> 
> Here are a few i've been looking at. price range is $100-150.
> Hidiz AP80 The Shanling M0, Fiio M6,  Cayin N3



Agree with @Shanling - you need good quality TWS and the intermediate device would have little to no effect. Keep in mind though that the signal you receive from Spotify doesn't just directly get transferred to the earbuds - your device has to process it, mix in any system sounds, and then recompress back to lossy digital for sending over BT. If you have a dedicated DAC, theoretically that mixing may not happen (as there may not be system sounds), and the subsequent recompression may be utilizing more dedicated algorithms that are better able to account for loss over BT.
Of course that won't make any difference if the DAC in the TWS isn't any good. So spend the money where it counts - on a good pair of TWS - and forget the DAC-in-the-middle. 

Or if you follow this thread at all - spend the money on 3, 4, 5, 20+ TWS to find the best one for any given situation


----------



## Caipirina

hifi80sman said:


> Phiaton BA TWS:  https://www.amazon.com/Phiaton-Balanced-Armature-Wireless-Earbuds/dp/B07SPHHQKD/



Interesting ... but case looks unnecessary bulky ... 

Phiaton brings back sweet memories, was my first BT AND ANC in ear (came with a dongle thingy which ended up sucking for work out) ... died within a few months but I still managed an amazon return across several countries  

Expecting the Funcl W1 today, yeay!


----------



## Steven Brittain

These are local any ideas? Just curious
https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/2978673095690299/


----------



## Steven Brittain

mattedialdoc said:


> UPDATE:
> 
> Although I still feel the SQ is pretty decent, the BT connection doesn’t hold well. I just a workout of 30min Jump Rope and 30 min Treadmill, and the BT on the Panfrey didn’t hold as well. Also any shielding of the buds drops the connection btwn the two. I was comparing the B530 at the time, and those are better in all aspects. Also the B530’s kept a connection to my iPad when I walked from my basement to the 3rd floor of my house!! WTH.



I am blown away with the distance these Go and stay connected. I really dig these b530s.


----------



## d3myz

Shanling said:


> TWS are all digital connection, transfer to analog signal happens inside them by their build in DAC(that is small part of main chip inside). So DAC in your player/phone has exactly zero effect on their sound.
> 
> If you want to use Spotify on your iPhone, just connect TWS to it. No device in between will bring any improvement.



Thanks for clearing that up, I appreciate it. 



vstolpner said:


> Agree with @Shanling - you need good quality TWS and the intermediate device would have little to no effect. Keep in mind though that the signal you receive from Spotify doesn't just directly get transferred to the earbuds - your device has to process it, mix in any system sounds, and then recompress back to lossy digital for sending over BT. If you have a dedicated DAC, theoretically that mixing may not happen (as there may not be system sounds), and the subsequent recompression may be utilizing more dedicated algorithms that are better able to account for loss over BT.
> Of course that won't make any difference if the DAC in the TWS isn't any good. So spend the money where it counts - on a good pair of TWS - and forget the DAC-in-the-middle.
> 
> Or if you follow this thread at all - spend the money on 3, 4, 5, 20+ TWS to find the best one for any given situation



I see, that makes sense. I guess one of the other benefits of getting a DAC player would be a better Eq and Aptx for me since i'm using an Iphone. I already own 14 pair or TWS' LOL.


----------



## vstolpner

d3myz said:


> Thanks for clearing that up, I appreciate it.
> 
> 
> 
> I see, that makes sense. I guess one of the other benefits of getting a DAC player would be a better Eq and Aptx for me since i'm using an Iphone. I already own 14 pair or TWS' LOL.



Glad to help.
Keep in mind how the signal will get to the DAC - if it's AAC to the DAC anyway you're just adding even more compression.


----------



## Caipirina

Another example of TWS + something mashup ...


 

It’s getting amusingly silly


----------



## Goulou

Hi, I'm looking for a first TWS pair in the 100-150$ range.

I was thinking to get the Galaxy Buds after the short Crinacle review, but their battery life isn't that great with the case.
What else do you recommend? 
I'm looking for at least 6 hrs battery life on a charge + 2 or 3 charge with the case, great BT stability, and best SQ within the budget.

The Sony 1000xm3 look great but I don't want to spend that much on my first TWS pair.
I can get the Sennheiser MTW for €150 but their battery life is terrible and there are issues with the case that hasn't been fixed with firmware updates.

I'm pretty lost at the moment. Thanks for your help


----------



## webvan

JimmyR said:


> Hey guys...for those interested, the review of the Sabbat E12 Ultra by Gamesky is here...
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Thanks for the link.

Hope someone does a review of the Sabbat X12 Ultra too !

BTW I managed to grab the Libratone Track Air + with the QCC5121 ANC as an Amazon "refurbished" (they're backordered everywhere) - will compare to the Sony WF-1000xm3 that are excellent in SQ and ANC but pretty poor in fit, with only the Comply T-200 allowing them to be usable on the go (Silicone's are ok if you're static). Apparently the Libratone offer a great fit but/because they're "semi in-ear" so passive isolation and ANC probably won't be great, like the QC20...


----------



## willyk

willyk said:


> Got to spend plenty of time this past weekend with the Tranya B530's.  Here is a quick hit list of thoughts about them, and some contrasts with the MPow T5's from my perspective...
> 
> - The sound quality is very balanced across the audio spectrum, articulate mids and highs - better than the T5's
> - The fit and build quality are excellent, on par with T5's
> ...



Finished the B530 beta process.  Tranya was great to work with.

I think the B530's sound great, but the inability to use them when active outdoors (running, gardening) due to BT drop-outs is a significant drawback for me.  Tranya believes that it's just a defective set and to their credit, they offered to replace them.  I'll report back when I swap these out for another pair.


----------



## mattedialdoc

willyk said:


> Finished the B530 beta process.  Tranya was great to work with.
> 
> I think the B530's sound great, but the inability to use them when active outdoors (running, gardening) due to BT drop-outs is a significant drawback for me.  Tranya believes that it's just a defective set and to their credit, they offered to replace them.  I'll report back when I swap these out for another pair.



Nice summation. I’ve had zero BT dropouts thus far. I’ve worked out indoors for a few hrs..and walked the dog around the block and did some work in the yard. I can’t speak to running outdoors. 
I did add some Comply foam tips....I ordered their new ones marketed specifically for TWS...they are shorter and easily fit in the charging case. I got the ones that fit the Galaxy buds(read on another forum they fit Tranya). So far very good.


----------



## Mouseman

willyk said:


> Finished the B530 beta process.  Tranya was great to work with.
> 
> I think the B530's sound great, but the inability to use them when active outdoors (running, gardening) due to BT drop-outs is a significant drawback for me.  Tranya believes that it's just a defective set and to their credit, they offered to replace them.  I'll report back when I swap these out for another pair.


It must be, because I haven't had any problems at all. I walk the dogs and have done yard work with my phone sitting on a table, and have had zero dropouts. That's great that they're going to replace them, hopefully that fixes things.


----------



## HiFlight

Goulou said:


> Hi, I'm looking for a first TWS pair in the 100-150$ range.
> 
> I was thinking to get the Galaxy Buds after the short Crinacle review, but their battery life isn't that great with the case.
> What else do you recommend?
> ...



The Back Bay Duet 50 meets your wishes very well!


----------



## mdickerman

Are there any 2019 TWS with on-board storage? I know the Samsung Icon X from last year had some but those buds didn't have a great reputation.


----------



## david8613

OFUSHO F16 are pretty awesome, nice clean sound, good bass, solid case, great build quality, nicer than anbes 359 and tranya t3 honestly. battery is super long lasting, longer that any other tw I have. I just cant get a good fit comfortable fit, I need my buds to have longer sound tubes like the anbes 359, the tranya t3. if anyone is interested in trading let me know. I would be interested in the tranya b530 let me know.


----------



## joelk2

What's a good flush fitting iem? Been looking at the Sabbat E12 but see they've just released the ultra. Are there any others to consider? Can't decide whether to go TWS or something like the ME6 pro with a Bluetooth receiver.


----------



## gibletzor (Sep 11, 2019)

> "willyk, post: 15180984, member: 341900"]Finished the B530 beta process.  Tranya was great to work with.
> 
> I think the B530's sound great, but the inability to use them when active outdoors (running, gardening) due to BT drop-outs is a significant drawback for me.  Tranya believes that it's just a defective set and to their credit, they offered to replace them.  I'll report back when I swap these out for another pair.


I've had 0 dropouts in connection with mine while mowing and working in the yard.


----------



## vstolpner

joelk2 said:


> What's a good flush fitting iem? Been looking at the Sabbat E12 but see they've just released the ultra. Are there any others to consider? Can't decide whether to go TWS or something like the ME6 pro with a Bluetooth receiver.



Depending what you're planning to use it for, but try the mifo O5 or the Shanling MTW100 (I believe they have nearly identical shapes, though not 100% sure)
The Anbes 359 / Kissral R18 are also pretty flush for me.


----------



## actorlife

d3myz said:


> I had problems with them two at first, I followed the reset instructions, I think you have to cradle them? or just power them on until you hear reset, then wait like 15-20 seconds, then put them right next to each other and power them on. make sure BT is off on your device.


Yep did that over five times yeste. Contacted Ida and Amazon about replacement. Not working on the left side only right side. Was great connecting with all my device. Not sure what happened. Could be faulty too cause only gives me five hours of battery. They are rated at 6-8hrs.


d3myz said:


> I had problems with them two at first, I followed the reset instructions, I think you have to cradle them? or just power them on until you hear reset, then wait like 15-20 seconds, then put them right next to each other and power them on. make sure BT is off on your device.



Yep did that over five times yesterday. Contacted Ida and Amazon about replacement. Not working on the left side only right side. Was great connecting with all my device. Not sure what happened. Could be faulty too cause only gives me five hours of battery. They are rated at 6-8hrs. Let's see what happens.


----------



## d3myz

HiFlight said:


> The Back Bay Duet 50 meets your wishes very well!





Goulou said:


> Hi, I'm looking for a first TWS pair in the 100-150$ range.
> 
> I was thinking to get the Galaxy Buds after the short Crinacle review, but their battery life isn't that great with the case.
> What else do you recommend?
> ...


I had the BB Duet's for 2 weeks and they are a great TWS' in every aspect except for sound quality. They have almost no bass and they just don't sound exciting at all. Even with Aptx, they just sounded ok. Great if all you do is listen to audio books. The MPOW T5, Tranya T3, Tranya B530, and Anbes 359, and the OFUSHU F16 all sound better and have volume control ipx 4 and above ratings and are in the same price range.


----------



## d3myz

vstolpner said:


> Glad to help.
> Keep in mind how the signal will get to the DAC - if it's AAC to the DAC anyway you're just adding even more compression.


Good point, so streaming directly from the device is probably the best option. What about amplifiers? do they work via BT? or is that handled on the BT chip itself as well? I'm assuming yes.


----------



## vstolpner

d3myz said:


> Good point, so streaming directly from the device is probably the best option. What about amplifiers? do they work via BT? or is that handled on the BT chip itself as well? I'm assuming yes.



The amp would be in the final device that's producing the sound, so on the TWS only. That said, the DAC that's built in to the chipset likely doesn't need further amplification.

High quality Bluetooth receivers use separate dedicated chipset for the DAC to further improve audio quality. But that's not something you'll see on TWS.


----------



## blacksesame

Anyone has any experience with kayinuo wireless. I was browsing ali and they have a few models that are interesting. One is a 14 mm graphene dd and the other I was looking at is 11mm dlc dd. Sorry I tried to look for model numbers but they didnt have any


----------



## Sam L

Just... wow...  this thread is a long one!  Took me several days to read through it all. 

Glad to see head fi'ers actively reviewing quite a few of the tws chi-fi products out there. I really appreciate it. I dropped out of my IEM hobby after trinity went belly up and have since been happy with over-ear anc (bose and sony variants). But I've always preferred earphones (glasses and sweaty ears make headphones less appealing).

I went ahead and ordered (most have come in) the following:
- mpow t5
- kissral r18 (sp?)
- tranya t3
- haylou gt1
- mifo 05
- taotronics soundliberty 53
- mifo 02
- fiio btr03 (for my wired iems)

I'm really ecstatic to see that the quality of TWS earphones are miles ahead of what it was a year or 2 ago.


----------



## d3myz

vstolpner said:


> The amp would be in the final device that's producing the sound, so on the TWS only. That said, the DAC that's built in to the chipset likely doesn't need further amplification.
> 
> High quality Bluetooth receivers use separate dedicated chipset for the DAC to further improve audio quality. But that's not something you'll see on TWS.


Ok, that makes sense, so like you said, just buy a really nice pair of TWS' LOL. I joined the Advanced M5 indiegogo for $130 super early bird and i'm really hoping they sound good, so come Oct. we will see. Maybe i'm cheap, but That's about as much as i'd ever want to spend on a TWS.


----------



## hifi80sman (Sep 11, 2019)

Goulou said:


> Hi, I'm looking for a first TWS pair in the 100-150$ range.
> 
> I was thinking to get the Galaxy Buds after the short Crinacle review, but their battery life isn't that great with the case.
> What else do you recommend?
> ...


House of Marley Liberate Air seem to meet your requirements.

- 9 hours battery life.
- Additional 2.5x charge w/ case.
- Personally, I haven't had any drop outs.
- Great SQ and bests everything I've tried in the price range.
- Good call quality.

Keep in mind there are no volume controls on the buds and no ambient mode. Since I primarily use them in the office and have my phone with me, lack of controls on the 'buds is a non-factor in my case.


----------



## vstolpner

Sam L said:


> Just... wow...  this thread is a long one!  Took me several days to read through it all.
> 
> Glad to see head fi'ers actively reviewing quite a few of the tws chi-fi products out there. I really appreciate it. I dropped out of my IEM hobby after trinity went belly up and have since been happy with over-ear anc (bose and sony variants). But I've always preferred earphones (glasses and sweaty ears make headphones less appealing).
> 
> ...



Yeah it really is a long thread.... Hard to believe....

Which mifo O5 did you order?



d3myz said:


> Ok, that makes sense, so like you said, just buy a really nice pair of TWS' LOL. I joined the Advanced M5 indiegogo for $130 super early bird and i'm really hoping they sound good, so come Oct. we will see. Maybe i'm cheap, but That's about as much as i'd ever want to spend on a TWS.



Given how good the Chi-Fi units sound these days, I totally agree.
I'm waiting on a nice set of hybrid TWS before plunking down any more cash... And even then I might wait until the 2nd or 3rd generation of hybrids are out


----------



## hifi80sman (Sep 11, 2019)

webvan said:


> Thanks for the link.
> 
> Hope someone does a review of the Sabbat X12 Ultra too !
> 
> BTW I managed to grab the Libratone Track Air + with the QCC5121 ANC as an Amazon "refurbished" (they're backordered everywhere) - will compare to the Sony WF-1000xm3 that are excellent in SQ and ANC but pretty poor in fit, with only the Comply T-200 allowing them to be usable on the go (Silicone's are ok if you're static). Apparently the Libratone offer a great fit but/because they're "semi in-ear" so passive isolation and ANC probably won't be great, like the QC20...


Looking forward to your feedback on the Libratone Track Air+.  They look a bit odd, but if they're the real deal, I may jump on them.  Can you also comment on call quality?


----------



## asak

The Partron PWE-100 is very good if you like neutral, flat sound. Battery life is good, connectivity is good.

If you're looking for some sound to put some pep in your step, probably not the best. But if you're looking for something to get you through the day, certainly may fit the bill.


----------



## hifi80sman

vstolpner said:


> Yeah it really is a long thread.... Hard to believe....
> 
> Which mifo O5 did you order?
> 
> ...


Yes, hard to believe the thread has taken off.  Interestingly, when browsing Amazon, many of the new releases are Chi-Fi, so it's not that I or most others are specifically looking for Chi-Fi, rather, the major brands just aren't able to crank them out as fast.  These look interesting.


----------



## d3myz

hifi80sman said:


> Yes, hard to believe the thread has taken off.  Interestingly, when browsing Amazon, many of the new releases are Chi-Fi, so it's not that I or most others are specifically looking for Chi-Fi, rather, the major brands just aren't able to crank them out as fast.  These look interesting.


Only Stereo sound? not even 6 or 9 D. Pssshhhh.


----------



## HiFlight

d3myz said:


> I had the BB Duet's for 2 weeks and they are a great TWS' in every aspect except for sound quality. They have almost no bass and they just don't sound exciting at all. Even with Aptx, they just sounded ok. Great if all you do is listen to audio books. The MPOW T5, Tranya T3, Tranya B530, and Anbes 359, and the OFUSHU F16 all sound better and have volume control ipx 4 and above ratings and are in the same price range.


MY Duet 50 has more bass than I really need.  To state the obvious, a well-fitting tip providing a solid seal is essential for bass on any IEM.


----------



## hifi80sman

d3myz said:


> Only Stereo sound? not even 6 or 9 D. Pssshhhh.


HAHA!  Sorry, no Super 13D sound.

SHEEPLOW TWS
_"25D Sound!  So many Dimensions!  Sounds like sh**!"_


----------



## hifi80sman (Sep 11, 2019)

Found these with a $10 off coupon and 15% off.  10mm driver and USB C.  I have no idea how they sound, but they look promising.  Someone want to take a leap?  

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07T7J55YX/
Promo Code:  15NHPFQW

I really need to start working and stop browsing.


----------



## cacio (Sep 11, 2019)

CardigdanWalk said:


> Have either of you had luck with getting the bottom plastic tray out of the KZ T1?
> 
> I’m trying with guitar pics, spludgers, needles, anything to get any purchase without any luck.
> 
> The only time I got anything was trying to wedge a screwdriver into the back lid hinge section, but it seemed like a was breaking the hinge instead of getting the tray out.



sorry for late reply. I've bought the MPOW M5/T5 on amazon for 50€ right after.

MPOW M5/T5 vs KZ T1

-MPOW is better in everything except the fit. M5 is really no problem for 1-2h, but after many hours like with most headphones, it starts to hurt. The KZ T1 are still more comfortable after many hours despise having larger body shell overall.

- M5 have really good resolution and background details. compares someway to my  Takstar Pro 82 and ES9018KM2 DAC PC Setup quality wise.

-T1 have less background resolution and also sound limited with the AAC 256kbit BT codec. On android custom roms you can toggle SBC HD with stereo >500kbit iirc which is better than AAC256kbit. Sadly you can not toggle SBC HD if the device supports other "HD" codecs like AAC or aptX ...

- they both deliver solid full frequency experience with deep bass if the songs asks for it. but M5 goes deeper and louder.


To keep it short, I would say the M5 are 15-25% better in most cases. And the M5 are the best IEM I've aver heard. Its not perfect like my desktop DAC, but usable quality for mobile use. I think if you want better quality and wider Frequency range, you have to use active noise canceling.

Because of the T1 case and firmware tuning problems, I would advice to get the M5. Don't buy T1.

Having said that, I can't really sell the T1 because of the ripped off top case. I do still use them from time to time, cuz they are still good IEMs. Mostly when I have placed the M5 further than the T1. Depends on the task. If its for "critical" listening , I always take M5. But if I have to do other stuff while listening, the T1 do a good job.

Overall I must admit that I am more satisfied with TWS IEMs than I have expected. Such small footprint to take them with you. You have your music on more occasions with you !

EDIT: 

the ultimate M5/T5 hack is to use the ear tips from KZ T1. The stock ear tips make the M5/T5 stick a little bit out of the ears. With the T1 small ear tips, they go as far in as its still comfortable. Also less wind noise if you drive bicycle


----------



## d3myz

HiFlight said:


> MY Duet 50 has more bass than I really need.  To state the obvious, a well-fitting tip providing a solid seal is essential for bass on any IEM.


Yea, I was really sad to return them, I used them daily for almost two weeks. tried all sorts of tips and had a good seal, but the just didn't compare to the T5 or the anbes, the Tranya b530's have been excellent as well, so far.


----------



## gibletzor

hifi80sman said:


> Found these with a $10 off coupon and 15% off.  10mm driver and USB C.  I have no idea how they sound, but they look promising.  Someone want to take a leap?
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07T7J55YX/
> Promo Code:  15NHPFQW
> ...


All of the info on that sounds so vague and generic I'd be afraid to try it!  lol


----------



## d3myz

cacio said:


> sorry for late reply. I've bought the MPOW M5/T5 on amazon for 50€ right after.
> 
> MPOW M5/T5 vs KZ T1
> 
> ...


Excellent, Insight. Thank you. I find myself listening to my anbes 359's and Tranya b530's more than my T5's lately, but I always use my T5's in the shower


----------



## FYLegend

joelk2 said:


> What's a good flush fitting iem? Been looking at the Sabbat E12 but see they've just released the ultra. Are there any others to consider? Can't decide whether to go TWS or something like the ME6 pro with a Bluetooth receiver.


For me at least, Sabbat E12 isn't a very flush fit in my ear and isolation is mediocre. It is flat on the outside so it doesn't protrude much though. UFO BE30 and Earfun Free have good flush fit with excellent isolation.


----------



## d3myz

FYI, looks like people have been dropping out of the Advanced M5 indiegogo, there's one Early Bird available for $150. As mentioned, after delivery there's a 30 day money back guarantee.


----------



## Barusu Lamperouge

I have TRN BT20S + QCY T2C enroute and I'm planning to get another sub $50 TWS IEM. Is Anbes 359 a good option? Or what should I consider to have a differential of sorts in TWS collection?


----------



## actorlife

Dani157 said:


> I have TRN BT20S + QCY T2C enroute and I'm planning to get another sub $50 TWS IEM. Is Anbes 359 a good option? Or what should I consider to have a differential of sorts in TWS collection?


Get the Ofusho F16 from Amazon. A true bargain. Anbes 359 is nowhere to be found.


----------



## actorlife (Sep 11, 2019)

$40 with 7hr battery. I like the look of the case(looks like KZ case?) .
ELECDER D11 True Wireless Earbuds Bluetooth 5.0 Headphones in Ear with Microphone, Charging Case for Workout, Running (Black) https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07SLQZN5N/ref=cm_sw_r_sms_apa_i_8hwEDbV8YY47N
Reviews rahaha


----------



## jant71

HiFlight said:


> MY Duet 50 has more bass than I really need.  To state the obvious, a well-fitting tip providing a solid seal is essential for bass on any IEM.



Yep, especially after some burn in they have quite good sound quality. The Amazons reviews are pretty accurate. Think mine is on there though 4 and not 5 stars. In it I say they put the smallest set of tips probably to fit in the case w/o issue. Not normal ears size tips. Maybe for children . I do have to deal with my large Sony hybrids turning inside out every time I pull the buds out but they sound pretty damn good and bigger tips let me have a more outside the ear fit so I can easy pinch the control with my thumb and fore finger and not do the push the buds into the ear thing like with some other buds. They need to make the mold bigger to better fit larger size tips.


----------



## gibletzor

actorlife said:


> Get the Ofusho F16 from Amazon. A true bargain. Anbes 359 is nowhere to be found.


I have to second this.  I just got mine and putting them through the paces but the sound is as good as any I've tried.  Also the Tranya B530s are fairly new and sound fantastic as well.


----------



## Barusu Lamperouge

actorlife said:


> Get the Ofusho F16 from Amazon. A true bargain. Anbes 359 is nowhere to be found.



Sadly, I can't purchase them in my region. Amazon's international shipping will mean I'll pay duties and taxes more than the earbuds' cost. And couldn't find them elsewhere as well. Although, appreciate your help here. Thanks. I'd definitely ask my friend to get em from US!


----------



## actorlife (Sep 11, 2019)

Dani157 said:


> Sadly, I can't purchase them in my region. Amazon's international shipping will mean I'll pay duties and taxes more than the earbuds' cost. And couldn't find them elsewhere as well. Although, appreciate your help here. Thanks. I'd definitely ask my friend to get em from US!


Glad your friend can get them for you. Maybe you can find the Kissral R18. Many have said they are the same as the Anbes 359.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07N1GXXFN/ref=cm_sw_r_sms_apa_i_UFxEDbVE98GJV


----------



## Rob E. (Sep 11, 2019)

david8613 said:


> OFUSHO F16 are pretty awesome, nice clean sound, good bass, solid case, great build quality,... if anyone is interested in trading let me know. I would be interested in the tranya b530 let me know.



I don't have anything to trade, but I'd buy them from you. PM me if you like.


----------



## LordToneeus

actorlife said:


> $40 with 7hr battery. I like the look of the case(looks like KZ case?) .
> ELECDER D11 True Wireless Earbuds Bluetooth 5.0 Headphones in Ear with Microphone, Charging Case for Workout, Running (Black) https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07SLQZN5N/ref=cm_sw_r_sms_apa_i_8hwEDbV8YY47N
> Reviews rahaha




How in the world did you find those reviews!? Poor Jerome. I wonder what he would have thought had he seated them correctly. 

I keep stumbling upon these on Amazon, and I love the look. I wonder how they sound.


----------



## actorlife

LordToneeus said:


> How in the world did you find those reviews!? Poor Jerome. I wonder what he would have thought had he seated them correctly.
> 
> I keep stumbling upon these on Amazon, and I love the look. I wonder how they sound.


Yeah alot of oddball reviews out there. They caught my curiosity while browsing Amazon. Maybe someone will stepup and review them.


----------



## actorlife (Sep 11, 2019)

More free tws for reviews. Fun! You have to send Amazon Profile to do it. Not sure how you do that from the app though. Edit sent screenshot and got approved. Same deal buy the TWS write review then send purchase proof then refund. Who's gonna join me? ✌️
https://m.facebook.com/Cash-back-379453802916967/photos/?tab=albums&mt_nav=1&__xts__[0]=33.{"logging_data":{"event_type":"tapped_see_all_page_photo_albums","impression_info":"eyJmIjp7InBhZ2VfaWQiOiIzNzk0NTM4MDI5MTY5NjciLCJpdGVtX2NvdW50IjoiMCJ9fQ","surface":"mobile_page_photos_tab","interacted_story_type":"148947852156832","session_id":"2d87083e04de69e3852aea89f552b0fa"}}
Get to review these: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07VQQYXQD?th=1
Or
https://www.amazon.com/Bluetooth-Ey...s=sleep+mask&qid=1565690660&s=gateway&sr=8-10
You can do both or just one.

Check this out too:
https://m.facebook.com/groups/317942082425726/


----------



## rhsauer (Sep 17, 2019)

I ordered last week, and just received today, the new Plantronics Backbeat Pro 5100s — Plantronics’ (now called Poly) new TWEs.  I bought them because they have four microphones and are billed as among the best-in-class for phone calls.  I’ve only had them for a few hours, but so far I’m really happy with them.  The sound is surprisingly good, the mic seems to work very well for calls (I tried a call standing right in front of a loud air conditioner), and they’re small and extremely comfortable.  No noise cancelling, but they isolate really well.  No aptX, but they have AAC (which is all I need because I’m all in on the Apple ecosystem).  They have volume control and a (rather barebones) app (so at least they may get firmware updates). These will replace my Mpow T5s and my Syllable S101s as my daily drivers.  They don’t sound quite as good as the Sony WF1000XM3’s, but I think the microphone is better and the case is much more pocketable (it’s really very small — almost as small as the Galaxy Buds’ case).  Will be interested in others’ views of these.

Update:  I just wore these on a commute on the NY subway system, including many of the places where other earphones usually glitch — and I didn’t experience a single connection issue, so that’s good.  The connection is just rock solid.  They isolate well on the subway, too, and I’m enjoying the sound signature more and more.  I also tried using Siri through the earphones while standing on a noisy subway platform, and my questions to Siri were understood each time.  That almost never happens. That’s just anecdotal evidence, for sure — but encouraging.

One thing I would note is that although they play plenty loud if the volume is set high enough, most of the “action” is between about 70% and 85% on the volume scale.  (In other words, the volume is too low below 60%, or thereabouts — particularly if you’re outdoors or in a noisy environment.)  On the MPOW T5s I generally have the volume between about 25% and 40% — so it’s basically the same 15% range for acceptable volume, but at a different point on the volume scale.  My concern was that having the volume set at 70% would impact battery life, but that doesn’t seem to be the case.  In fact, preliminary results suggest that the 6.5 hours anticipated battery life may be conservative.

It will be interesting to see how these compare to the soon-to-be-released Jabra 75ts.  The Plantronics are $30 or so cheaper, and, unlike the Jabras, don’t have ambient sound (which I never use anyway), USB-C or an equalizer function built in to the app.

Update 2:  I made a call while using these earphones while standing on the NYC subway platform as a train came into the station, and the person I was talking to said he could hear me perfectly, which is really remarkable.  Also, as they burn in, they seem to have a little more volume, FWIW.  I was listening at about 50% yesterday (not on the subway platform, but while walking outside).


----------



## vstolpner

So I was recently reminded of an awesome song and decided to try it out on some of my TWS...
Man, the Mpow T5 are amazing!! Both Tranya's sound muffled by comparison (though surprisingly I prefer the sound of the T3 over the B530).
Really curious to see what you guys think! What's your favorite sounding TWS for this song?
Song: Blood on my Name by The Brothers Bright


----------



## chinmie

soo... how many is too many?


----------



## aPot (Sep 12, 2019)

actorlife said:


> More free tws for reviews. Fun! You have to send Amazon Profile to do it. Not sure how you do that from the app though. Edit sent screenshot and got approved. Same deal buy the TWS write review then send purchase proof then refund. Who's gonna join me? ✌️
> https://m.facebook.com/Cash-back-379453802916967/photos/?tab=albums&mt_nav=1&__xts__[0]=33.{"logging_data":{"event_type":"tapped_see_all_page_photo_albums","impression_info":"eyJmIjp7InBhZ2VfaWQiOiIzNzk0NTM4MDI5MTY5NjciLCJpdGVtX2NvdW50IjoiMCJ9fQ","surface":"mobile_page_photos_tab","interacted_story_type":"148947852156832","session_id":"2d87083e04de69e3852aea89f552b0fa"}}
> Get to review these: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07VQQYXQD?th=1
> Or
> ...


Sounds a bit sketchy, especially since that first link doesn't seem to actually go anywhere.

edit: By doesn't go anywhere I mean only leads to a page that says cash back. Am I going crazy here or is this how the review for cash back things actually work. Just send a message to a random page with 18 likes?


----------



## srinivasvignesh

rhsauer said:


> I ordered last week, and just received today, the new Plantronics Backbeat Pro 5100s — Plantronics’ (now called Poly) new TWEs.  I bought them because they have four microphones and are billed as among the best-in-class for phone calls.  I’ve only had them for a few hours, but so far I’m really happy with them.  The sound is surprisingly good, the mic seems to work very well for calls (I tried a call standing right in front of a loud air conditioner), and they’re small and extremely comfortable.  No noise cancelling, but they isolate really well.  No aptX, but they have AAC (which is all I need because I’m all in on the Apple ecosystem).  They have volume control and a (rather barebones) app (so at least they may get firmware updates). These will replace my Mpow T5s and my Syllable S101s as my daily drivers.  They don’t sound quite as good as the Sony WF1000XM3’s, but I think the microphone is better and the case is much more pocketable (it’s really very small — almost as small as the Galaxy Buds’ case).  Will be interested in others’ views of these.




I have been looking around for a good set of TWS with really good mic. Your initial impressions are promising. Please update more as you learn more, especially on the mic front. 

Thanks


----------



## hifi80sman

chinmie said:


> soo... how many is too many?


No such thing as too many.


----------



## chinmie

hifi80sman said:


> No such thing as too many.



your signature says it three times! if it were Beetlejuice he would be here already


----------



## RobinFood

chinmie said:


> soo... how many is too many?



Three is too much unfortunately. I can help you out though, just send me the blue one


----------



## Barusu Lamperouge

actorlife said:


> Glad your friend can get them for you. Maybe you can find the Kissral R18. Many have said they are the same as the Anbes 359.
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07N1GXXFN/ref=cm_sw_r_sms_apa_i_UFxEDbVE98GJV



They eerily similar to Anbes.


----------



## Caipirina

chinmie said:


> soo... how many is too many?



Yep, THREE is too many! Trust me! 
This is coming from a guy with 3 sets of TWE


----------



## Caipirina

actorlife said:


> $40 with 7hr battery. I like the look of the case(looks like KZ case?) .



Besides being round and flips open, that's where the similarities to the KZ case end .. no Mifo style hinge (nor their slogan), no metal, who knows, left / right bud might even be on the correct sides


----------



## BobJS

hifi80sman said:


> House of Marley Liberate Air seem to meet your requirements.
> 
> - 9 hours battery life.
> - Additional 2.5x charge w/ case.
> ...



I'd like to chime in on these again.  They have really grown on me.  I did have an opportunity to receive a phone call with them and my wife on the other end said they sounded better than my phone. (As well as a snarky, "Oh are they new?")

But the sound is great, low bass, nice highs, great mids, and the sleek profile allows me to fall asleep with them (always a prime consideration for me).


----------



## clerkpalmer

RobinFood said:


> Three is too much unfortunately. I can help you out though, just send me the blue one


What's the blue one anyway?


----------



## RobinFood

clerkpalmer said:


> What's the blue one anyway?



It has em on the shell so it is by eternal melody. Judging by Chinmie's sign they are probably the eternal melody em2. I have never heard them but I believe they are in the ciem business so those shells probably fit like a sock!


----------



## migueneitor

Long time lurker, first time poster over here.

So a while ago I got a pair Sabbat X12, and have been pretty satisfied. Now I'm looking for something that isolates a bit more. It seems that the current budget community favorites are the Ofusho F16, the new Tranyas, and I guess the KZ T1 (if one can find them). I'm also looking for a pair with USB-C charging.

So anyways... I'm in Spain, and I've noted that there's plenty of Samsung Galaxy Buds popping up on buy-sell apps like Wallapop, and I guess I could get a pair for around 60€ if I do a bit of negotiating. Do you guys think I should do that or opt for one of the above mentioned? Or any other option?


----------



## actorlife (Sep 12, 2019)

aPot said:


> Sounds a bit sketchy, especially since that first link doesn't seem to actually go anywhere.
> 
> edit: By doesn't go anywhere I mean only leads to a page that says cash back. Am I going crazy here or is this how the review for cash back things actually work. Just send a message to a random page with 18 likes?


Yes send a message saying yes and you'll get a reply with what to do. I highly doubt it's a scam. If anything return back to Amazon for a full refund.
Edit.
Got this just now:

Hello Dear User,
We are the Amazon Facebook fan team, we will send many free products within the group and invite you to become our product testers! And if you have friends who need free items, you can also invite them to our group.
Products cover: clothing, shoes, luggage, household items, electronic products, etc. ALL are FREE!
When the team reaches 200 people, I will update the products in this group! For testers to choose! Amazon customer Only!
The group joins the link: https://www.facebook.com/groups/us.A05.CC/

Over 300 have joined so far.


----------



## actorlife

Caipirina said:


> Besides being round and flips open, that's where the similarities to the KZ case end .. no Mifo style hinge (nor their slogan), no metal, who knows, left / right bud might even be on the correct sides


You know more than me.  You using the KZ lately?


----------



## LordToneeus

vstolpner said:


> So I was recently reminded of an awesome song and decided to try it out on some of my TWS...
> Man, the Mpow T5 are amazing!! Both Tranya's sound muffled by comparison (though surprisingly I prefer the sound of the T3 over the B530).
> Really curious to see what you guys think! What's your favorite sounding TWS for this song?
> Song: Blood on my Name by The Brothers Bright




Forgot about that one!  That is a good song!  Just checked it out on my Ofusho F16's... sounds great there too.


----------



## WesennTony

chinmie said:


> soo... how many is too many?


More to go for a rainbow collection.
BTW, any multiple BA/hybrids that go well with BT20S? My W60 failed, too much hiss and degrade of SQ.


----------



## LordToneeus

mattedialdoc said:


> UPDATE:
> 
> Although I still feel the SQ is pretty decent, the BT connection doesn’t hold well. I just a workout of 30min Jump Rope and 30 min Treadmill, and the BT on the Panfrey didn’t hold as well. Also any shielding of the buds drops the connection btwn the two. I was comparing the B530 at the time, and those are better in all aspects. Also the B530’s kept a connection to my iPad when I walked from my basement to the 3rd floor of my house!! WTH.



I picked up the Panfrey's after you mentioned how initially pleased you were.  I LOVE how these fit!  They're shaped more or less like the Jabra 65ts, only smaller.  I had no problems with drop outs, and battery claims seemed legit to me.

Classical and vocal music sounded just fine to me, but, alas, the Panfrey's just can't hang with my busy metal music.  Sounds is too bloated, boomy, clogged.  They're going back.  

If only I could find the same form factor with MPOW T5 or even Ofusho F16 sound.


----------



## Caipirina (Sep 12, 2019)

actorlife said:


> You know more than me.  You using the KZ lately?



Actually in my ears right now, still loving that sound sig, but I have to admit, since there is no IPX rating I never go running with it .. and that volume hump made it a bit tricky on a walk recently, was either too loud or not loud enough in those noisy street conditions ... so, basically only when I sit at home and can enjoy music at that lower vol setting ...

Recently really liking those Bonola ANC buds (from the new batch of loot)


----------



## chinmie

clerkpalmer said:


> What's the blue one anyway?





RobinFood said:


> It has em on the shell so it is by eternal melody. Judging by Chinmie's sign they are probably the eternal melody em2. I have never heard them but I believe they are in the ciem business so those shells probably fit like a sock!



Bingo! Robinfood got it right 
i don't know if they're still in business, or if they change their name. this is one of my most favorite sounding multi BAs, period. this one was my friend's. he brought it to an audio meet, once i listened to it, i pulled him aside and said "if you ever going to sell this, only sell it to me". long story short, now it's mine

and it does fit like a sock  hugs the ears like a CIEM



WesennTony said:


> More to go for a rainbow collection.
> BTW, any multiple BA/hybrids that go well with BT20S? My W60 failed, too much hiss and degrade of SQ.



from my collections, they would have a slight hiss with the BT20S. i recommend the older BT20 more for multi BAs and hybrids.


----------



## actorlife

Dani157 said:


> They eerily similar to Anbes.


Can you get them?


----------



## Barusu Lamperouge

actorlife said:


> Can you get them?



Sadly no, as they're available only on amazon.com and I'm based in India. So the same issue as Ofusho F16.


----------



## Luchyres (Sep 12, 2019)

TK33 said:


> Been waiting for them to upgrade the MW07 since they started going on sale.  I seem to be one of the few around here that prefers no ANC (gives me a headache) but with good SQ and better battery life, I will probably pull the trigger on one of the models.  Looking forward to more details.





albau said:


> Besides better battery life in a new iteration of MW07 I personally most of all want from M&D not to screw up the fabulous, almost audiophile-level SQ with things like ANC. Obviously anybody who spent money and time on this forum knows that there's no limit on improving SQ. And I will applaud it, whether it comes in a form of better, larger, more beryllium  drivers and even more refined acoustic tuning and/or improved codecs (AptX HD, etc.). Better call quality would be nice as well as BT5.  Although with my usage of MW07 vs T5 and 389 I didn't notice them being any more drop-out prone. Otherwise, battery notwithstanding, I'm really happy with everything about MW07 - SOUND, functionality (volume, multipoint), interface (vertical tactile buttons that don't push in, double buttons for volume), fit and isolation, design and looks, beauty, craftsmanship and quality (they ooze all three).
> 
> PS. Oh, forgot. what else I really want is BA (or better hybrid) variant of MW07!





hifi80sman said:


> Oh, man!  Don't get me too excited!
> 
> Even without considering ANC, the battery life and mic for calls make the new version compelling.  If they add app control, I would certainly pick them up.
> 
> I wonder what the MW07 Go is going to be.  I imagine they'll do without the acetate, the stainless case, and add some good IP resistance, but I'm sure it'll still be high end.




I'm dying for more info on the MW07 Plus or the Go variants - please post as you all find out more!

I want some of these same things - but having not tried the original MW07 - I'm just excited that they have such good sound quality and may address the reasons I didn't get them - call quality and battery life. I also am not that concerned by ANC - but keen to see what these two bring to the table! (I think I'll hold onto my Nuarl's for now until they're released) - did one of you see an estimated date for release?


----------



## mattedialdoc

LordToneeus said:


> I picked up the Panfrey's after you mentioned how initially pleased you were.  I LOVE how these fit!  They're shaped more or less like the Jabra 65ts, only smaller.  I had no problems with drop outs, and battery claims seemed legit to me.
> 
> Classical and vocal music sounded just fine to me, but, alas, the Panfrey's just can't hang with my busy metal music.  Sounds is too bloated, boomy, clogged.  They're going back.
> 
> If only I could find the same form factor with MPOW T5 or even Ofusho F16 sound.



Oh man, sorry if a lead you astray.
I found the fit nice...but the little square part sometimes pushed against the inner edge of my ear a little. 
The fit of the B530’s with comply tips is really more comfy.


----------



## actorlife

Dani157 said:


> Sadly no, as they're available only on amazon.com and I'm based in India. So the same issue as Ofusho F16.


Darn. Maybe Caipirina can give you a Ali link for those awei tws in the meantime. He seems to like them.


----------



## clerkpalmer

Those new Navy Blue RHA True Connect look quite fetching. As an aside, has anyone here grabbed the Klipsch T5?  I see they are finally available and only 2 quarters late (which seems to be considered on time these days).


----------



## actorlife

Alright guys see you in a few months, hopefully. My life is in shambles so I gotta stay away for now. Later.


----------



## FYLegend (Sep 12, 2019)

More info on the Jabees Firefly.2 being released September 30:

https://store.jabees.com/collection...wireless-charging-case?variant=29953472168008

Seems like the main changes are 10H battery life and IPX7 waterproofing. The charging case is nearly the same as the Firefly Pro with Qi charging (same size) although the lid is different. Still only supports AAC and SBC.

Edit: they told me call quality is better as it uses dual mics

New version of BE30 UFO/Anbes 359 with different housings and a clip hanger.

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000106465351.html

Has anyone here used Fasttech or GearVita?


----------



## hifi80sman

Human Headphones.  Love this review.  HILARIOUS!


----------



## Luchyres

hifi80sman said:


> Human Headphones.  Love this review.  HILARIOUS!




"I'm really not feeling how they feel... and I HATE how they look." 

"When that bass dropped.... well, there is no bass. There is no bass on this." "Take your cellphone, put a sock around it, put it by your ear - that's how these sound." 

Amazing review. Amazing.


----------



## gibletzor

actorlife said:


> Alright guys see you in a few months, hopefully. My life is in shambles so I gotta stay away for now. Later.


Be well!  Hope everything turns out ok!


----------



## hifi80sman

actorlife said:


> Alright guys see you in a few months, hopefully. My life is in shambles so I gotta stay away for now. Later.


Sorry to hear that!


----------



## Tranman409

HIFIMAN TWS600 lightning deal for $126. didnt know they made a TWS 

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07TR4C9L2


----------



## clerkpalmer

Tranman409 said:


> HIFIMAN TWS600 lightning deal for $126. didnt know they made a TWS
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07TR4C9L2


Read up before you buy.


----------



## asak

Re-post with more detail, but these are amazing, Partron PWE-100. Very flat sound signature, with strong deep bass. The call quality is good as well. There's also an app with firmware updating functionality and EQ. The charging box is fairly small too.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07VNDLM5M/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

https://www.0db.co.kr/REVIEW_0DB/813751


----------



## hifi80sman

clerkpalmer said:


> Read up before you buy.


2nd that.  Unless you enjoy a high-mid, low-treble ear fest, you'll probably be disappointed.  Probably best suited for classical/opera material.


----------



## hifi80sman

asak said:


> Re-post with more detail, but these are amazing, Partron PWE-100. Very flat sound signature, with strong deep bass. The call quality is good as well. There's also an app with firmware updating functionality and EQ. The charging box is fairly small too.
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07VNDLM5M/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
> 
> https://www.0db.co.kr/REVIEW_0DB/813751


Look compelling, especially at that price, where you don't see many options with an app.


----------



## hifi80sman (Sep 12, 2019)

Ordered the new Creative Outlier Gold, which has the Super X-Fi feature.  Curious as to whether or not it really does something.  14 hours per charge, too.  We shall see (and soon)!


----------



## clerkpalmer

hifi80sman said:


> Ordered the new Creative Outlier Gold, which has the Super X-Fi feature.  Curious as to whether or not it really does something.  14 hours per charge, too.  We shall see (and soon)!



I love you man.


----------



## mattedialdoc

hifi80sman said:


> Ordered the new Creative Outlier Gold, which has the Super X-Fi feature.  Curious as to whether or not it really does something.  14 hours per charge, too.  We shall see (and soon)!



I tried these and were so uncomfortable. The sound was good but really an ear channel killer.


----------



## bubsdaddy

actorlife said:


> Alright guys see you in a few months, hopefully. My life is in shambles so I gotta stay away for now. Later.



I hope you are well. Thanks for all you have contributed and I look forward to when you can return. Be well, my friend.


----------



## vstolpner

actorlife said:


> Alright guys see you in a few months, hopefully. My life is in shambles so I gotta stay away for now. Later.



Best of luck, hope everything works out for the best.


----------



## Caipirina

actorlife said:


> Alright guys see you in a few months, hopefully. My life is in shambles so I gotta stay away for now. Later.



Important to take a step back sometimes and focus on what really counts. Be well and I am hopeful it will eventually all work out! 

Maybe I should follow your shining example and abstain for a while.


----------



## Caipirina

hifi80sman said:


> Ordered the new Creative Outlier Gold, which has the Super X-Fi feature.  Curious as to whether or not it really does something.  14 hours per charge, too.  We shall see (and soon)!



“The Software Super X-Fi Processing Technology unlocks Super X-Fi headphone holography for local audio and music files* through Bluetooth. Simply download the SXFI App, create your Super X-Fi profile, and connect to Outlier Gold via Bluetooth.”

This could be super interesting OR super baloney ... keep us posted


----------



## voicemaster

chinmie said:


> soo... how many is too many?





chinmie said:


> soo... how many is too many?



Lol same


----------



## bedlamite

For those that own both, BT20 or the newer S? The 20 is literally dirt cheap at this point but the S is future-proofed. 

I have both of them but I'm too lazy to do a comparison lol


----------



## assassin10000 (Sep 13, 2019)

voicemaster said:


> Lol same



I was in the same boat, at one point I had 1x BT20 & 2x BT20S.

Sold one of each, since a single pair of  long BT20S lasts long enough for me.




bedlamite said:


> For those that own both, BT20 or the newer S? The 20 is literally dirt cheap at this point but the S is future-proofed.
> 
> I have both of them but I'm too lazy to do a comparison lol



For me, BT20S. 1-2 hour longer battery life, Apt-x as my phone won't connect via AAC and it has some kind of sweat proofing as I wear these while working out in the garage.

Sure it's louder and may have hiss on low impedence BA/hybrid's. I can deal with that, for me these aren't for critical listening. That and I mostly use them with mmcx earbuds.


----------



## voicemaster

bedlamite said:


> For those that own both, BT20 or the newer S? The 20 is literally dirt cheap at this point but the S is future-proofed.
> 
> I have both of them but I'm too lazy to do a comparison lol



For me, the build quality is much better on the bt20s. My bt20 left side button always get atuck because the charging port kind of pushed in making the button can't be pressed. None of that with the bt20s. Oh and the hiss is noticeable only when there is no other sound, but I am using mine for pretty much everything (youtube, music, movie, gaming, etc) so it is a non issue.


----------



## chinmie

voicemaster said:


> Lol same



glad to see that i still have a socially acceptable numbers... but i do thinking buying more 



assassin10000 said:


> I was in the same boat, at one point I had 1x BT20 & 2x BT20S.
> 
> Sold one of each, since a single pair of  long BT20S lasts long enough for me.



i agree with you, essentially one is enough, as the battery is really long and can last even two days of moderate use. tested it by going to a relative's house without the charger cable. 

the only reason i bought several because i rather not connect/disconnecting my IEMs too often. 

i just think of purchasing the BT20s is like purchasing 10 meters worth of cable


----------



## georgelai57

chinmie said:


> glad to see that i still have a socially acceptable numbers... but i do thinking buying more
> 
> 
> 
> ...


To power on and off, would both pieces’ power buttons need to be pressed or just one of them? Thanks


----------



## chinmie

georgelai57 said:


> To power on and off, would both pieces’ power buttons need to be pressed or just one of them? Thanks



only one of them is enough on the older BT20, but you need to press both on the newer BT20S


----------



## georgelai57

chinmie said:


> only one of them is enough on the older BT20, but you need to press both on the newer BT20S


Thank you.


----------



## Bartig (Sep 13, 2019)

Anyone interested in a review of the most curious true wireless earphones I've tried so far? 




And no, I didn't take that picture midnight...


----------



## Caipirina

Bartig said:


> Anyone interested in a review of the most curious true wireless earphones I've tried so far?
> 
> 
> 
> And no, I didn't take that picture midnight...


Vacation over? 

Oh, those Dick Tracy buds. Any good? Not that I would ever consider buying those


----------



## Barusu Lamperouge

actorlife said:


> Darn. Maybe Caipirina can give you a Ali link for those awei tws in the meantime. He seems to like them.



Thanks for the help. And sending good vibes to you so that you can return back soon!


----------



## mattedialdoc

FYLegend said:


> More info on the Jabees Firefly.2 being released September 30:
> 
> https://store.jabees.com/collection...wireless-charging-case?variant=29953472168008
> 
> ...




That marketing makes no sense to me for the Jabees Firefly.2. As a former collegiate swimmer and open water racer, there is ZERO chance those will work while swimming. You won’t maintain a connection with your phone sitting on the deck of the pool as you swim laps, nor if you put your phone in a waterproof armband as the suggest!!? Not sure what they are trying to say. I’m sure it’s waterproof but not gonna be listening to music whilst swimming.


----------



## thimantha

I think this is the same as the OFUSHO pair that you guys were raving about.

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/329...&terminal_id=92320ef6ecc44da3b8035c33aab23e95


----------



## aPot

thimantha said:


> I think this is the same as the OFUSHO pair that you guys were raving about.
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/329...&terminal_id=92320ef6ecc44da3b8035c33aab23e95


They look a bit similar, but these have no mention of aptx.


----------



## LordToneeus

thimantha said:


> I think this is the same as the OFUSHO pair that you guys were raving about.
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/329...&terminal_id=92320ef6ecc44da3b8035c33aab23e95



You know what's funny about that... If memory serves, on the inside of the Ofusho case it says "Take it. Take fun."


----------



## gibletzor

LordToneeus said:


> You know what's funny about that... If memory serves, on the inside of the Ofusho case it says "Take it. Take fun."


It says exactly that.  They look exactly like the Ofushos except for the red/orange coloring on them.


----------



## david8613

gibletzor said:


> It says exactly that.  They look exactly like the Ofushos except for the red/orange coloring on them.



yes these do look exactly minus the red accents. my ofusho are still available for trade is someone is interested.


----------



## hifi80sman

thimantha said:


> I think this is the same as the OFUSHO pair that you guys were raving about.
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/329...&terminal_id=92320ef6ecc44da3b8035c33aab23e95


They definitely look the same, but I think the OFUSHO is a re-brand with the same shell, but upgraded.  I think @chinmie had the Havit I93 and it just supports AAC with physical buttons, not touch controls like the OFUSHO has.  You're probably looking at an Airoha or Realtek SoC on the Havit I93 vs the Qualcomm QCC3020.  Basically same Chinese ODM/OEM (probably in Shenzhen) with off-the-shelf options.


----------



## gibletzor

hifi80sman said:


> They definitely look the same, but I think the OFUSHO is a re-brand with the same shell, but upgraded.  I think @chinmie had the Havit I93 and it just supports AAC with physical buttons, not touch controls like the OFUSHO has.  You're probably looking at an Airoha or Realtek SoC on the Havit I93 vs the Qualcomm QCC3020.  Basically same Chinese ODM/OEM (probably in Shenzhen) with off-the-shelf options.


That would certainly explain why it's half the price.


----------



## Caipirina

actorlife said:


> Darn. Maybe Caipirina can give you a Ali link for those awei tws in the meantime. He seems to like them.


Was there a discussion/ question regarding Awei that I missed? So far I did not say much about those T6C which I got. They are overall good performers, especially at the 18$ sales special I got them for. But also not mind blowing


----------



## Spamateur

Googling "mw07 plus" shows two listings for them at B&H for a price of $299 USD. However, clicking on either link results in a "page not found" on B&H's website. Looks like we at least have a price point.


----------



## AtariPrime (Sep 13, 2019)

So...a couple of new contenders are changing the game a bit.  Over the last year, battery life has been increasing rapidly.  We went from 2 hours battery life, to 4 hours, then many products jumped from 6-10 hours.  Now two new models are claiming 14 hours before needing a recharge. 

Hard to tell if they have already been mentioned in this thread.

The first, the Creative Outlier Gold.  Essentially an upgrade of the Creative Outlier Air.  Price is good at $99.00  Reviews indicate that the sound is very good, especially for the price. Sound is bass heavy with recessed mids (this is a good thing).  Overall the sound curve is is described as 'U' shaped.  Biggest drawback...they are painted gold.  Why?







The second option, boasting similar battery life is the Audio Technica ATH-CKS5TW.  These are selling a bit higher at $149.00.  Some reviews would indicate that the audio quality is on par with being as good as it gets.  The only major drawback seems to be that they are very large.  You may end up looking like you have Frankenstein style wine corks sticking out of your ears.  If that's not a dealbreaker for you, maybe these are the way to go.  For my money, I think I would get the Creative Outlier and maybe spray paint them a different color than gold.


----------



## hifi80sman (Sep 13, 2019)

AtariPrime said:


> So...a couple of new contenders are changing the game a bit.  Over the last year, battery life has been increasing rapidly.  We went from 2 hours battery life, to 4 hours, then many products jumped from 6-10 hours.  Now two new models are claiming 14 hours before needing a recharge.
> 
> Hard to tell if they have already been mentioned in this thread.
> 
> ...


So, I picked up the Creative Outlier Gold yesterday and have been testing them out since.  The "Super X-Fi" feature is a bit gimmicky and I wouldn't recommend picking them up for that.  It's nothing special and is similar to pretty much all the other "surround" sound software emulators, although it does have an interesting deep bass effect.  The Super X-Fi only works with the app and songs stored locally, so you won't be able to apply the effect to Spotify, etc.  It does, however, accomplish the task of not sounding "in your head", but again, it sounds simulated and more of a gimmick than for practical application.  You also seem to lose some resolution, so some instruments may no longer sound very prominent.  Not sure how to activate for gaming, but if you could, I see that as an area it would excel.

That being said, it does have 14 hours per charge vs. the standard version's 10 hours, both of which are great.  Take this with a grain of salt, but I had the standard Outlier Air and the Outlier Gold does seem to have a bit better sound.  it's not as warm, the bass seems tighter, and imaging sounds better (that's the first thing I noticed).  Again, take that with a grain of salt because they're just based on my emotive impressions, not an A/B.  For $20 more, if you don't mind the color, just for the battery, it may be worth going to the Gold.  The Super X-Fi is a nice little novelty, but I wouldn't buy it for that.  Basically, longer battery and maybe a little better sound in the Gold.

I would place the Outlier Gold in the upper echelon of TWS' when it comes to pure sound; they sound excellent.  I tend to lean toward TWS' that have some nice bass punch and a little rumble.  These do not disappoint.  Highs are smooth, yet detailed, and imaging is very, very good (directional instrumentation is superb).  Vocals are nice and may sit a little behind and yes, follow a "U" sig, but they are still an integral part of the mix and I have no issues listening to any singer/songwriter material.


----------



## voicemaster

Wow we are at the time where a TWS iem can last for 14 hours per charge. Even 8-10 hours is pretty impressive already imho. I actually hope instead of having 14 hours of battery life, maybe do 8 hours per charge, but put a more stronger DAC and drivers. Rarely people use TWS 8-10 hours straight, most probably only use 2-4 hours max per day.


----------



## hifi80sman

voicemaster said:


> most probably only use 2-4 hours max per day


Most *regular *people, but probably not the junkies on this forum!  LOL!  

Good point on the battery life, SoC, and drivers, but I don't think they are mutually exclusive anymore.  With BT 5.0, the possibilities are there.  Look at the MW07 Plus, with what looks like same 10mm Beryllium Drivers, Qualcomm SoC, and 10 hours battery life.

Like Cookie Monster sans cookies, add TWS'.


----------



## D3soLaT3

Anyone heard the HeadSound X5? Besides this girl? 


Seem to have the right specs for a sub $50 TWS. AptX, IPX7, and 8 hour listening time. I might have to be the guinea pig on this one.


----------



## hifi80sman

D3soLaT3 said:


> Anyone heard the HeadSound X5? Besides this girl?
> Seem to have the right specs for a sub $50 TWS. AptX, IPX7, and 8 hour listening time. I might have to be the guinea pig on this one.


Don't do it.  Looks like a re-brand with the same specs as the MEBUYZ, which sound AWFUL.  Specs mean nothing if the drivers suck, and at least for the MEBUYZ, they do.  I would imagine the drivers are the same, but you can take a shot if you want...


----------



## hifi80sman

D3soLaT3 said:


> Anyone heard the HeadSound X5? Besides this girl?
> Seem to have the right specs for a sub $50 TWS. AptX, IPX7, and 8 hour listening time. I might have to be the guinea pig on this one.


For that price, I'd go with the sure thing in the T5.
https://www.amazon.com/Wireless-Mpow-Bluetooth-Featured-Cancelling/dp/B07SR1FTD4/


----------



## D3soLaT3

hifi80sman said:


> Don't do it.  Looks like a re-brand with the same specs as the MEBUYZ, which sound AWFUL.  Specs mean nothing if the drivers suck, and at least for the MEBUYZ, they do.  I would imagine the drivers are the same, but you can take a shot if you want...


gOOD LOOKING


hifi80sman said:


> Don't do it.  Looks like a re-brand with the same specs as the MEBUYZ, which sound AWFUL.  Specs mean nothing if the drivers suck, and at least for the MEBUYZ, they do.  I would imagine the drivers are the same, but you can take a shot if you want...


Good looking out. Those do look awfully similar.


----------



## vstolpner

hifi80sman said:


> For that price, I'd go with the sure thing in the T5.
> https://www.amazon.com/Wireless-Mpow-Bluetooth-Featured-Cancelling/dp/B07SR1FTD4/



+1 on the T5's


----------



## gibletzor

hifi80sman said:


> For that price, I'd go with the sure thing in the T5.
> https://www.amazon.com/Wireless-Mpow-Bluetooth-Featured-Cancelling/dp/B07SR1FTD4/


It's hard to go wrong with the Mpow T5.


----------



## mattedialdoc

hifi80sman said:


> So, I picked up the Creative Outlier Gold yesterday and have been testing them out since.  The "Super X-Fi" feature is a bit gimmicky and I wouldn't recommend picking them up for that.  It's nothing special and is similar to pretty much all the other "surround" sound software emulators, although it does have an interesting deep bass effect.  The Super X-Fi only works with the app and songs stored locally, so you won't be able to apply the effect to Spotify, etc.  It does, however, accomplish the task of not sounding "in your head", but again, it sounds simulated and more of a gimmick than for practical application.  You also seem to lose some resolution, so some instruments may no longer sound very prominent.  Not sure how to activate for gaming, but if you could, I see that as an area it would excel.
> 
> That being said, it does have 14 hours per charge vs. the standard version's 10 hours, both of which are great.  Take this with a grain of salt, but I had the standard Outlier Air and the Outlier Gold does seem to have a bit better sound.  it's not as warm, the bass seems tighter, and imaging sounds better (that's the first thing I noticed).  Again, take that with a grain of salt because they're just based on my emotive impressions, not an A/B.  For $20 more, if you don't mind the color, just for the battery, it may be worth going to the Gold.  The Super X-Fi is a nice little novelty, but I wouldn't buy it for that.  Basically, longer battery and maybe a little better sound in the Gold.
> 
> I would place the Outlier Gold in the upper echelon of TWS' when it comes to pure sound; they sound excellent.  I tend to lean toward TWS' that have some nice bass punch and a little rumble.  These do not disappoint.  Highs are smooth, yet detailed, and imaging is very, very good (directional instrumentation is superb).  Vocals are nice and may sit a little behind and yes, follow a "U" sig, but they are still an integral part of the mix and I have no issues listening to any singer/songwriter material.



Didn’t you feel like the buttons are hard to press and each time you press them it’s like driving an ice pick into your ear !?


----------



## hifi80sman

mattedialdoc said:


> Didn’t you feel like the buttons are hard to press and each time you press them it’s like driving an ice pick into your ear !?


Yes, if you push them in directly, but that's not how I press them.  I actually brace the top edge with my index finger a bit, so when I press the button with my thumb, the pressure rests against my finger and doesn't force it further in my ear.  I always prefer touch controls in most cases, although I do find the button controls on the MW07 very well done (they rest on the edge, not on the earbud face).


----------



## mattedialdoc

hifi80sman said:


> Yes, if you push them in directly, but that's not how I press them.  I actually brace the top edge with my index finger a bit, so when I press the button with my thumb, the pressure rests against my finger and doesn't force it further in my ear.  I always prefer touch controls in most cases, although I do find the button controls on the MW07 very well done (they rest on the edge, not on the earbud face).



Agree. But having to negotiate the brace and press when sweaty and active didn’t work for me. But good sound.


----------



## tayo15

My NUARLs kicked the bucket. Overall they were good. Anyone have any recommendations under $100 and under $200??

Overall I just mainly want them for commute and or to replace airpods.


----------



## clerkpalmer

tayo15 said:


> My NUARLs kicked the bucket. Overall they were good. Anyone have any recommendations under $100 and under $200??
> 
> Overall I just mainly want them for commute and or to replace airpods.


Under 200 rha true connect is a good choice and some good reports on the house of Marley air on here.  Under 100, the m5 seems to be a solid choice or the creative outlier air. The tranya b530 may be overtaking the m5 as the best budget option.  I like them both.


----------



## Caipirina

clerkpalmer said:


> Under 200 rha true connect is a good choice and some good reports on the house of Marley air on here.  Under 100, the m5 seems to be a solid choice or the creative outlier air. The tranya b530 may be overtaking the m5 as the best budget option.  I like them both.


Now I feel like I need to look into ways on how to get those B530 . Amazon US only? 

No, need to stop. Have more than enough!!!


----------



## clerkpalmer

Caipirina said:


> Now I feel like I need to look into ways on how to get those B530 . Amazon US only?
> 
> No, need to stop. Have more than enough!!!


If you already have the m5, the b530 probably isn't worth the upgrade. More same than different imo.


----------



## charleski

If anyone's interested, I've just posted a rather long review of the Syllable S101, comparing it to the QCY QS2
https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/syllable-s101.23938/reviews#review-22624


----------



## Caipirina

clerkpalmer said:


> If you already have the m5, the b530 probably isn't worth the upgrade. More same than different imo.


Thank you, oh voice of reason


----------



## vstolpner

Caipirina said:


> Now I feel like I need to look into ways on how to get those B530 . Amazon US only?
> 
> No, need to stop. Have more than enough!!!





clerkpalmer said:


> If you already have the m5, the b530 probably isn't worth the upgrade. More same than different imo.



Agreed. I found the Tranya B530 to be somewhere between the Tranya T3 and the Mpow T5. And IMO T3+T5 > B530 :-D
I go into a bit more detail in my review too and have side by side photos (see signature)


----------



## Caipirina (Sep 14, 2019)

charleski said:


> If anyone's interested, I've just posted a rather long review of the Syllable S101, comparing it to the QCY QS2
> https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/syllable-s101.23938/reviews#review-22624


It IS long. And very thorough it seems. And one day I shall read it all. For now thanks to giving some attention to the 101. I liked them from the beginning, somehow I forgot / did not know they have AptX. Need to check with my shanling if I hear a difference.
(Just checked the sales material again, and they do not advertise AptX in big, shiny letters.., it’s more of a throw away extra info in one of the pics... double checked then your review if you could really connect with AptX. This must be one of the cheapest AptX tws around. AND it’s DD!!!) 

And I have the same appreciation of physical buttons over ‘touch’ button as you.


----------



## Barusu Lamperouge

Caipirina said:


> Was there a discussion/ question regarding Awei that I missed? So far I did not say much about those T6C which I got. They are overall good performers, especially at the 18$ sales special I got them for. But also not mind blowing



Had asked for good under $50 tws options to everyone in the thread. @actorlife recommended Ofusho F16 which sadly I can't post to India. So probably asked for some options in Ali. I already own BT20S and QCY T2C. Was looking for something as a step-up/improvement. 

So far I can only think of Anbes 359.


----------



## webvan

Finally spotted a "UFO" on a European Amazon, does it look legit : https://www.amazon.fr/Écouteurs-Bluetooth-Oreillette-Autonomie-Mains-Libres/dp/B07TRJF4RQ/ ?


----------



## tlau1125

Judge Buff said:


> I just won an Edifier TWS1 on aliexpress. I’ll review it. I look forward to it’s “classic sound,” as the review I read called it’s signature.


Just received the Edifier TWS1 from AliExpress yesterday:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33036956266.html
First impression is good.  I haven’t attempted to compare it side by side with the QCY T1C which is the only other pair of TWS I have, but based on my memory here are the differences I notice:
- The Edifier is louder (may be that’s why I can hear some background faint hiss when there is nothing playing).  The announcements are also very loud.
- The Edifier seems to provide more clarity and air due to mid/high being more forward.
- Comfort level is similar.  May need more time to confirm.  To me the tips that come with the Edifier fit me better.  For the QCY I have to switch to Sony tips to get a good seal.
- The Edifier touch control can only perform start/stop and skip forward/backward.  No volume and smart assistant.  QCY’s physical button can do smart assistant.
- I need to get use to the magnetic cover of Edifier’s charging case that closes very eagerly.  QCY’s case has no cover.
- Even though the Edifier uses the Qualcomm 3020 chip, it only supports SBC and AptX.  The QCY supports SBC and AAC.  I have Apple devices so I guess SBC is used.  I do not know how much the encoding can affect the quality but in this case I think the sound signature difference probably plays a bigger role.
- The mic on the Edifier works.  My QCY’s right mic is broken (I got a partial refund because of this )
- Both exhibit delay with YouTube on iPhone and iPad.

In early conclusion, there is a noticeable difference in sound signature and loudness.  I do wish it can support even lower volume but that’s probably just me.


----------



## hifi80sman (Sep 14, 2019)

tayo15 said:


> My NUARLs kicked the bucket. Overall they were good. Anyone have any recommendations under $100 and under $200??
> 
> Overall I just mainly want them for commute and or to replace airpods.


Under $200, House of Marley Liberate Air and RHA TrueConnect as @clerkpalmer indicated, although I had a difficult time with the RHA staying in place and maintaining a good fit.  I was able to get a good fit when i first put them in, but they are quite bulbous and tended to slide around.  I was always messing with them in the gym.  Also, the B&O E8 v1.0 is available for under $200 ($150 now) and is a solid choice as well.  They sound exactly the same as the E8 2.0.  The only difference is the 2.0 has a better case (more battery, USB-C, wireless charging), while the earbuds are the same (although there are different colors).

Under $100, quite a few good choices.  MPOW T5, Creative Outlier (Air or Gold), COWIN KY02, FIIL TWS, Kissral (Anbes 359 clone), Tranya B530 or T3.  In fact, many of the solid under $100 options are actually under $50, so you could grab more than one!  It'll become an addiction.


----------



## Caipirina

Dani157 said:


> Had asked for good under $50 tws options to everyone in the thread. @actorlife recommended Ofusho F16 which sadly I can't post to India. So probably asked for some options in Ali. I already own BT20S and QCY T2C. Was looking for something as a step-up/improvement.
> 
> So far I can only think of Anbes 359.



Not sure how he thought of Awei in this case. And at least you have Amazon .in 
Maybe they have the Tranya. (T3 or B530)

The Mpow t5 can be had from AliX for 51.35$ and they are very good.


----------



## tayo15

Ok bought the Tranya b350 thank you guys!!


----------



## tayo15

hifi80sman said:


> Under $200, House of Marley Liberate Air and RHA TrueConnect as @clerkpalmer indicated, although I had a difficult time with the RHA staying in place and maintaining a good fit.  I was able to get a good fit when i first put them in, but they are quite bulbous and tended to slide around.  I was always messing with them in the gym.  Also, the B&O E8 v1.0 is available for under $200 ($150 now) and is a solid choice as well.  They sound exactly the same as the E8 2.0.  The only difference is the 2.0 has a better case (more battery, USB-C, wireless charging), while the earbuds are the same (although there are different colors).
> 
> Under $100, quite a few good choices.  MPOW T5, Creative Outlier (Air or Gold), COWIN KY02, FIIL TWS, Kissral (Anbes 359 clone), Tranya B530 or T3.  In fact, many of the solid under $100 options are actually under $50, so you could grab more than one!  It'll become an addiction.



Got the tranya b350


----------



## hifi80sman

tayo15 said:


> Got the tranya b350


and...what else?


----------



## tayo15 (Sep 14, 2019)

clerkpalmer said:


> Under 200 rha true connect is a good choice and some good reports on the house of Marley air on here.  Under 100, the m5 seems to be a solid choice or the creative outlier air. The tranya b530 may be overtaking the m5 as the best budget option.  I like them both.



Thank you ordered the b


hifi80sman said:


> and...what else?



Idk yet I will wait since I need to research sound profiles. I want something with a mids and vocals emphasis. Or I will try something from the $200 recommendation. I needed something quick for now.  What would you recommend?

Also back when I used to frequent this thread the Tranya T3s had just been discovered. So the b350s only because the Tranyas received a lot of praise back then. Since someone said the b350s beat the t3s I went with those.

P.S. if anything I love soundstage and wouldn't mind balanced. I would still need decent isolation.


----------



## Caipirina (Sep 14, 2019)

webvan said:


> Finally spotted a "UFO" on a European Amazon, does it look legit : https://www.amazon.fr/Écouteurs-Bluetooth-Oreillette-Autonomie-Mains-Libres/dp/B07TRJF4RQ/ ?


Shape of the buds is very different from the Anbes 359 though



The shape of the Anbes buds is one of my favs and I wonder if anyone has encountered this shape in any other tws set.


----------



## vstolpner

Caipirina said:


> Shape of the buds is very different from the Anbes 359 though
> 
> 
> The shape of the Anbes buds is one of my favs and I wonder if anyone has encountered this shape in any other tws set.



I really like the shape too, though it does make operating the button a little uncomfortable for me.

I have seen it in some other cases too.... Try image search on AliExpress, should come up with some ideas. I think Amazon may have image search too, but I'm not sure


----------



## Darkestred (Sep 14, 2019)

Decided to try another set of TWS.  Just got done playing around with the Ofusho F16.  I currently own Adv model X.  The F16s are eq friendly in the bass region.  The bass is enjoyable and can be tweaked to have rumble. so there is a fun-factor with this set.  I feel like the mids are recessed (which is fine).  A darkish tone but does also feel somewhat warm.  I feel like the treble is just ok.  There is not much data retrieval in this region and eq'n doesnt do much.  Its just there.

The model X definitely has better treble detailing and is overall, better.

The F16 for my ears defintely feels like they will not fall out.  An issue i do have with the X.  I used AUIVAs(Spelling?) and the tips suctioned right into my ears.  Very rarely do i experience this with universals.  They felt super-secure.
For $42 bucks, not a bad purchase and will definitely be used for my Nvidia Shield use and may see some rotation at the gym or when out and and about.


----------



## sanity8me

hifi80sman said:


> Under $200, House of Marley Liberate Air and RHA TrueConnect as @clerkpalmer indicated, although I had a difficult time with the RHA staying in place and maintaining a good fit.  I was able to get a good fit when i first put them in, but they are quite bulbous and tended to slide around.  I was always messing with them in the gym.  Also, the B&O E8 v1.0 is available for under $200 ($150 now) and is a solid choice as well.  They sound exactly the same as the E8 2.0.  The only difference is the 2.0 has a better case (more battery, USB-C, wireless charging), while the earbuds are the same (although there are different colors).
> 
> Under $100, quite a few good choices.  MPOW T5, Creative Outlier (Air or Gold), COWIN KY02, FIIL TWS, Kissral (Anbes 359 clone), Tranya B530 or T3.  In fact, many of the solid under $100 options are actually under $50, so you could grab more than one!  It'll become an addiction.



With the inclusion of the F16, which of these top contenders are most comfortable?


----------



## webvan

vstolpner said:


> I really like the shape too, though it does make operating the button a little uncomfortable for me.
> 
> I have seen it in some other cases too.... Try image search on AliExpress, should come up with some ideas. I think Amazon may have image search too, but I'm not sure


Yep, using the image search finds a "CHENKLE" TWS that looks exactly like the Anbes but at a cost or 80€


----------



## VTman (Sep 30, 2019)

FYLegend said:


> If these are USB Type C they have me sold! I also see G-Wack has a variant of the UFO with a percentage indicator (its description says microUSB, but thankfully reviewers say it's USB-C, although I doubt it supports PD charging).



These just came in today. It’s MicroUSB, not typeC. Solid build and good SQ from initial impressions. Really surprised on how well these budget TWS are built these days.


----------



## 2bds

Got the Back Bay Duet 50s and have been digging them. I got a pair of the Ofusho F16s for my gf but when she swapped out the tips to anything but stock they don't fit in the charging case! unfortunately a dealbreaker  any suggestions for something comfortable with a deep enough charging case to accommodate longer double flange tips?


----------



## chinmie

say, has anyone here ever compared the sound of the MPow T5/M5 to the KZ ZS10 Pro?


----------



## Mouseman

chinmie said:


> say, has anyone here ever compared the sound of the MPow T5/M5 to the KZ ZS10 Pro?


I have both. While I really like the Mpow (although I think the Tranya may have taken the first spot in the rotation), they aren't in the same league as the Pros. The KZs have deeper bass, a better soundstage, and significantly better details. Of course, you could always turn them into wireless with a cable (which I've done), or the earpieces that people have been posting so much about here. 

IMHO, Multiple drivers (especially a hybrid setup) are pretty much going to always win, unless it's a really high quality single dynamic. I don't have any TWS that are only balanced, since I don't like their sound as much.  I have some balanced-only IEMs, and they're not my favorites, so it's unlikely I'd buy any.


----------



## chinmie

Mouseman said:


> I have both. While I really like the Mpow (although I think the Tranya may have taken the first spot in the rotation), they aren't in the same league as the Pros. The KZs have deeper bass, a better soundstage, and significantly better details. Of course, you could always turn them into wireless with a cable (which I've done), or the earpieces that people have been posting so much about here.
> 
> IMHO, Multiple drivers (especially a hybrid setup) are pretty much going to always win, unless it's a really high quality single dynamic. I don't have any TWS that are only balanced, since I don't like their sound as much.  I have some balanced-only IEMs, and they're not my favorites, so it's unlikely I'd buy any.



thanks! i suspect as much..there's someone selling an MPow M5 at a really tempting price, but I'm hesitant to purchase it if it doesn't sound better or at least the same level to the ZS10 Pro, because i already have it at home. i might paint/sticker it black and use it as beater EDC TWS


----------



## Mouseman

chinmie said:


> thanks! i suspect as much..there's someone selling an MPow M5 at a really tempting price, but I'm hesitant to purchase it if it doesn't sound better or at least the same level to the ZS10 Pro, because i already have it at home. i might paint/sticker it black and use it as beater EDC TWS


Are you talking about the ZS10 Pro or the ZSX true wireless?


----------



## clerkpalmer

chinmie said:


> thanks! i suspect as much..there's someone selling an MPow M5 at a really tempting price, but I'm hesitant to purchase it if it doesn't sound better or at least the same level to the ZS10 Pro, because i already have it at home. i might paint/sticker it black and use it as beater EDC TWS


If the question is whether the m5 sound as good as a zs10 pro and bt20, i think that's highly unlikely. It's really hard to beat the bt20 plus hybrid iem for pure sq. Maybe the mw07 gets there but I dont know.  Close call


----------



## chinmie

Mouseman said:


> Are you talking about the ZS10 Pro or the ZSX true wireless?



i currently have the ZS10 Pro, not sure I'm going to buy the ZSX because i don't think it would be much different. pairing it with the BT20 is great



clerkpalmer said:


> If the question is whether the m5 sound as good as a zs10 pro and bt20, i think that's highly unlikely. It's really hard to beat the bt20 plus hybrid iem for pure sq. Maybe the mw07 gets there but I dont know.  Close call



btw, how's the KXXS paired with BT20S? is there any hiss at all? or at least low enough tk be tolerable?


----------



## AtlantasRealtor

New Qualcomm 5100 TWS chips with superlative features announced.

Product Brief. https://www.qualcomm.com/media/documents/files/qcc5100-series-product-brief.pdf


----------



## clerkpalmer

chinmie said:


> btw, how's the KXXS paired with BT20S? is there any hiss at all? or at least low enough tk be tolerable?



This is a solid combo. Very little hiss.  Biggest issue is there is very little headroom. The bt20s can power the kssx but barely.


----------



## clerkpalmer

AtlantasRealtor said:


> New Qualcomm 5100 TWS chips with superlative features announced.
> 
> Product Brief. https://www.qualcomm.com/media/documents/files/qcc5100-series-product-brief.pdf


Aptx HD would be a game changer. Too bad samsung inexplicably doesn't support it. Ridiculous!


----------



## voicemaster

clerkpalmer said:


> Aptx HD would be a game changer. Too bad samsung inexplicably doesn't support it. Ridiculous!



My huawei mate20x and oneplus7 support aptX HD. Good thing about android is there are many other brands to get.


----------



## AtlantasRealtor

First announced TWS product with Qualcomm qcc5100 chipset.

AptX HD is included in the feature set.

GSMArena.com: vivo TWS Earphone wireless buds leak with Qualcomm's new flagship wireless chip - GSMArena.com news.
https://www.gsmarena.com/vivo_tws_e...mms_new_flagship_wireless_chip-news-39189.php


----------



## D3soLaT3

IDK if anyone is looking for cheap throw away buds, but Amazon has the Simgot MTW5 for $16.99 after you clip the 50% coupon. Not much on these but they do not seem well regarded. Maybe others can speak to their quality.


----------



## charleski

clerkpalmer said:


> Aptx HD would be a game changer. Too bad samsung inexplicably doesn't support it. Ridiculous!


I think the big news for the future is AptX Adaptive, which is basically AptX HD with a better fallback system. TWS are limited by power, but also by the sort of antenna they can use since they don't have the space available with over-ears. There's no point throwing loads of bits at your music if it cuts out on a regular basis.

Unfortunately I doubt that AptX A will be licensed for current phones. Qualcomm will be wanting to tout it as a feature for their latest-and-greatest chip to make more sales.


----------



## mikp

AtlantasRealtor said:


> First announced TWS product with Qualcomm qcc5100 chipset.
> 
> AptX HD is included in the feature set.
> 
> ...



I see no mention of apt-x hd.


----------



## webvan

AtlantasRealtor said:


> First announced TWS product with Qualcomm qcc5100 chipset.
> 
> AptX HD is included in the feature set.
> 
> ...


First TWS witht the QCC5126 possibly but not with the QCC51xx because I'm currently listening to music on the Libratone Track Air + with the QCC5121 that I got yesterday  Pretty impressed so far, ANC is very close to what the WF-1000MX3 offers, closer than the 70% I'd read about so far, but the huge difference is how much more comfortable they are, night and day. More to come...


----------



## RobinFood

tayo15 said:


> My NUARLs kicked the bucket. Overall they were good. Anyone have any recommendations under $100 and under $200??
> 
> Overall I just mainly want them for commute and or to replace airpods.



Oh no! Should I be worried? They are my main headphone since last week when I got tired of winding the cable on my ST-10.

I love  how  strings and pianos sounds on it. They are a little muddy compared to my top dogs, but having played the violin for a few years when younger no earphones does strings justice like the Nuarls.


----------



## Caipirina

VTman said:


> These just came in today. It’s MicroUSB, not typeC. Solid build and good SQ from initial impressions. Really surprised on how well these budget TWS are built these days.




Link? Name? Price? Info? Please? 

Always wanted such a tube style case ...


----------



## vstolpner

*sarcastic tone*
Oh look, mifo O5 for cheap!! And they have the AirPods style earpieces to boot!!

https://s.click.aliexpress.com/e/eeCSaCYvl


----------



## Caipirina (Sep 15, 2019)

vstolpner said:


> *sarcastic tone*
> Oh look, mifo O5 for cheap!! And they have the AirPods style earpieces to boot!!
> 
> https://s.click.aliexpress.com/e/eeCSaCYvl



Saw these earlier and also thought 'someone is going for the mifo look'

For fun, here is another earbud style that I really wonder how that would stay in your ear .. looks like a lot of counter-weight outside the ear ...


----------



## Firevortex

just got my self a sennheiser twe, sound stage and clarity is definitely better than the Sony XM3 but sony has a deeper bass. 

i'm itching to try some Chi-fi buds for comparison any recommendations? think T5 would hold up to those big boys in terms of SQ?


----------



## clerkpalmer

Firevortex said:


> i'm itching to try some Chi-fi buds for comparison any recommendations? think T5 would hold up to those big boys in terms of SQ?



No they will not.  Doesn't make them bad but you are really comparing apples to oranges.  Both the Sony and senns sound better than any chi fi I've heard except maybe the nuarl.  If you want that experience out of chifi grab a bt20 plus hybrid iem of your choice.


----------



## Firevortex

webvan said:


> First TWS witht the QCC5126 possibly but not with the QCC51xx because I'm currently listening to music on the Libratone Track Air + with the QCC5121 that I got yesterday  Pretty impressed so far, ANC is very close to what the WF-1000MX3 offers, closer than the 70% I'd read about so far, but the huge difference is how much more comfortable they are, night and day. More to come...



i saw a review few weeks ago on youtube. they said Track Air+ has decent ANC and were comfortable but MX3 trumps it in every other category besides comfort. they've also notice a bad stethoscope effect when you exercise (hearing your own heart beat) lol


----------



## VTman (Sep 15, 2019)

Caipirina said:


> Link? Name? Price? Info? Please?
> 
> Always wanted such a tube style case ...


Please refer to Post#11607 in this thread


----------



## chinmie

Caipirina said:


> Link? Name? Price? Info? Please?
> 
> Always wanted such a tube style case ...





VTman said:


> Please refer to Post#11607 in this thread



here you go https://www.amazon.com/SSK-Bluetooth-Headphones-Sweatproof-Microphone/dp/B07R8TPND5


----------



## Caipirina

VTman said:


> Please refer to Post#11607 in this thread



Thank you ... for future references, you can also link directly to past posts  

Like the shape of the buds, too bad that amazon US is out of reach for me. Looking fwd to your impressions.


----------



## webvan (Sep 16, 2019)

Firevortex said:


> i saw a review few weeks ago on youtube. they said Track Air+ has decent ANC and were comfortable but MX3 trumps it in every other category besides comfort. they've also notice a bad stethoscope effect when you exercise (hearing your own heart beat) lol


What review is that? All IEMs are going to have a stethoscope effect with eartips that seal so I'm not sure what they mean. If anything the Track Air + do not have deep insertion so it's not as bad as on the Sonys.

They have a few quirks (ANC mics always on, one action only per bud with a double tap) but they're very capable TWS. Great design/confort, light, excellent SQ (much more balanced than the Sony XM3 that have very recessed highs), tiny case. It's too bad they're not able to put more on the market and get "influencers" to review them like Sony did.

I'm still slightly on the fence whether to keep them or not in light of my current "stable" but they're ahead of the XM3s at this point.


----------



## Firevortex

webvan said:


> What review is that? All IEMs are going to have a stethoscope effect with eartips that seal so I'm not sure what they mean. If anything the Track Air + do not have deep insertion so it's not as bad as on the Sonys.
> 
> They have a few quirks (ANC mics always on, one action only per bud with a double tap) but they're very capable TWS. Great design/confort, light, excellent SQ (much more balanced than the Sony XM3 that have very recessed highs), tiny case. It's too bad they're not able to put more on the market and get "influencers" to review them like Sony did.
> 
> I'm still slightly on the fence whether to keep them or not in light of my current "stable" but they're ahead of the XM3s at this point.



Its a Chinese review channel called TESTV.  they compared it head to head with the 1000mx3. like i said some main flaws against it mentioned in the video: stethoscope effect is BAD compared to others, ANC isn't as good as sony, SQ isnt as good, its app is total crap according to them and the forums.  if you're happy then thats all it counts?


----------



## webvan

Happy? I'm sharing my observations with members of this community and don't have any dogs in this race. I paid the same price for both and might be keeping one so don't care either way. Don't believe everything you see on YouTube especially if it's only one review that points out specific "problems".


----------



## Firevortex

webvan said:


> Happy? I'm sharing my observations with members of this community and don't have any dogs in this race. I paid the same price for both and might be keeping one so don't care either way. Don't believe everything you see on YouTube especially if it's only one review that points out specific "problems".



i'm just replying to your question about the review you asked for? now you are telling me not to believe them and you seem to be defending the flaws they pointed out which makes you "happy" with your buds. i'm not implying anything about you having a dog in the race with the word "happy". i'm just sharing info as i wanted to purchase them before. they did mention the comfort is amazing compared to the Sony.


----------



## VTman (Sep 16, 2019)

Caipirina said:


> Like the shape of the buds, too bad that amazon US is out of reach for me. Looking fwd to your impressions.



Bought these TWS mainly for the kids. I am not a big fan of bluetooth audio and already have more headphones/earbuds than I really need.....

Original plan was to find those Anbes 359's because of so many positive reviews/comments in this thread. But it seems those 359 are no longer available, so I changed the plan trying to find same buds made by same manufacturer but under other different reseller brands just like what many others did. It's a bit risky because there were some mixed feedbacks, until I found a webpage seems to be the factory in Shenzhen making all those UFO/BE30 variants. They claim those water drop shaped buds are out of a proprietary mold, and listed total 5 versions of the BE30 available for bulk orders. The cheapest version has Pixart BT solution, then 3 versions using Realtek solution. The latest and most expensive version has a Qualcomm QCC3020 chip in it. That latter one became my new target.

After few days searching on Amazon, I ordered these Kanoe model even though the charging case is not UFO shaped. As I don't have the original 359 to compare the sound, thus cannot be 100% sure if these are really what I think they were. But, considering the price point (<40), these are quite good in terms of build and sound quality. I am very happy with my purchase, so are the kids. YMMV


----------



## webvan (Sep 16, 2019)

Firevortex said:


> i'm just replying to your question about the review you asked for? now you are telling me not to believe them and you seem to be defending the flaws they pointed out which makes you "happy" with your buds. i'm not implying anything about you having a dog in the race with the word "happy". i'm just sharing info as i wanted to purchase them before. they did mention the comfort is amazing compared to the Sony.



Hum.. how could I defend  "flaws" that I have not observed with my side by side testing and that no other review has pointed put? It's a bit hard to understand why you are insisting on taking that particular review at face value...


----------



## Caipirina

VTman said:


> Bought these TWS mainly for the kids. I am not a big fan of bluetooth audio and already have more headphones/earbuds than I really need.....
> 
> Original plan was to find those Anbes 359's because of so many positive reviews/comments in this thread. But it seems those 359 are no longer available, so I changed the plan trying to find same buds made by same manufacturer but under other different brands. It's a bit risky because there were some mixed feedbacks, until I found a webpage seems to be the factory in Shenzhen making all those UFO/BE30 variants. They claim those water drop shaped buds are out of a proprietary mold, and listed total 5 versions of the BE30 available for bulk orders. The cheapest version has Pixart BT solution, then 3 versions using Realtek solution. The latest and most expensive version has a Qualcomm QCC3020 chip in it. That latter one became my new target.
> 
> After few days searching on Amazon, I ordered these Kanoe model even though the charging case is not UFO shaped. As I don't have the original 359 to compare the sound, thus cannot be 100% sure if these are really what I think they were. But, considering the price point (<40), these are quite good in terms of build and sound quality. I am very happy with my purchase, so are the kids. YMMV



Wow! May I applaud your intricate detective skills? That's quite a find! Proprietary mold and only 5 models. No wonder kids are happy with that shape! already tried a picture search on AliX, alas .. ah well, may my 359 just hold forever.


----------



## charleski

Firevortex said:


> just got my self a sennheiser twe, sound stage and clarity is definitely better than the Sony XM3 but sony has a deeper bass.
> 
> i'm itching to try some Chi-fi buds for comparison any recommendations? think T5 would hold up to those big boys in terms of SQ?


It all depends on whether you're willing (and able) to apply a fair amount of EQ. There are a lot of cheap earphones that are actually quite good, but have been tuned to produce overwhelming bass because that's what the market wants. The Syllable S101 I reviewed is one example. Take the bass out and it really shines (and shines even more if you make some other EQ tweaks). But the upper end of the market is no exception. I haven't had a chance to hear them, but looking at the FR graphs for the Sennheiser I doubt I'd be happy without giving them a lot of EQ as well, though the Sony seems better.


----------



## Firevortex (Sep 16, 2019)

webvan said:


> Hum.. how could I defend  "flaws" that I have not observed with my side by side testing and that no other review has pointed put? It's a bit hard to understand why you are insisting on taking that particular review at face value...



1) that review channel is one of China's more popular indepth tech review channels. did you watch it ?
2) there is heaps of blogs and in depth reviews on forums and blogs in china that mentioned the major microphonics issue with the Air+ when there isn't any reviews in English.
https://www.zhihu.com/question/334886900
https://post.smzdm.com/p/awxqn06k/

all in chinese but every single one even the forums mentioned the microphonics issue.


----------



## Firevortex

charleski said:


> It all depends on whether you're willing (and able) to apply a fair amount of EQ. There are a lot of cheap earphones that are actually quite good, but have been tuned to produce overwhelming bass because that's what the market wants. The Syllable S101 I reviewed is one example. Take the bass out and it really shines (and shines even more if you make some other EQ tweaks). But the upper end of the market is no exception. I haven't had a chance to hear them, but looking at the FR graphs for the Sennheiser I doubt I'd be happy without giving them a lot of EQ as well, though the Sony seems better.



EQing is not an issue for me with IEMs. i find that i don't need to EQ as much for the sennheiser (my EQ looks almost flat) compared to the sony. Sony seems to need a boost up the treble and lower the bass for my liking. main difference is the clarity, sound stage, call quality and comfort of the sennheiser beating the Sony (not by a large margin). i'm not expecting a sub $100 chi-fi twe to beat out those two heavyweights but would come close in one of the attributes such as sound stage. would be curious to see how close they've come.


----------



## webvan

Firevortex said:


> 1) that review channel is one of China's more popular indepth tech review channels. did you watch it ?
> 2) there is heaps of blogs and in depth reviews on forums and blogs in china that mentioned the major microphonics issue with the Air+ when there isn't any reviews in English.
> https://www.zhihu.com/question/334886900
> https://post.smzdm.com/p/awxqn06k/
> ...



Very odd, haven't noticed anything different than with any other "sealing" IEM and the English (or German) reviews on YT either : https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=libratone+track+air+
This one here (he also has the Sonys) is particularly interested : 

So yes the ANC might be a bit weaker than on the WF-1000xm3, it's not night and day either and there's more of a difference between say the QC25 and the WF-1000MX3 than between the WF-1000MX3 and the Track Air+. It remains quite effective in any case and helps a great deal during commuting or flying (simulated so far by blasting this video ) and they can be worn for hours with no discomfort whatsoever.

Since you are oddly so strongly opinionated about how inferior the Track Air + compared to the WF-1000MX3 that you already own, you should really do yourself a favor and check them out for yourself.


----------



## rhsauer (Sep 16, 2019)

webvan said:


> Very odd, haven't noticed anything different than with any other "sealing" IEM and the English (or German) reviews on YT either : https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=libratone+track+air+
> This one here (he also has the Sonys) is particularly interested :
> 
> So yes the ANC might be a bit weaker than on the WF-1000xm3, it's not night and day either and there's more of a difference between say the QC25 and the WF-1000MX3 than between the WF-1000MX3 and the Track Air+. It remains quite effective in any case and helps a great deal during commuting or flying (simulated so far by blasting this video ) and they can be worn for hours with no discomfort whatsoever.
> ...




Is it true that (as I’ve read elsewhere) the Libratone Track Air+ do NOT have AAC?  If so, have you observed an impact on sound quality on iPhones?

EDIT:  I just listened through the entire video review above and the reviewer is explicit that there is no AAC support.  It’s surprising to me that Libratone would omit the AAC codec, particularly on a relatively high end earphone, I’m really interested in whether the SBC codec implementation is good enough to make up for this omission.


----------



## webvan

I just checked with my Nokia 8 running Android 9 and yes, only SBC and APTX are available, AAC can be forced but does not "stick" which means it's not supported by the buds. Now I did some side-by-side listening and the differences between SBC and APTX are (at best) "subtle", maybe a slightly larger soundstage ? So I doubt they would be any larger between SBC and AAC.


----------



## Spamateur

I was traveling this weekend and had some time to kill in the airport, so I hit up an InMotion store to audition some TW models:

*House of Marley Liberate Air*: These sounded really nice and were quite comfortable and light to wear. The sound is maybe a bit too bass-heavy for my taste, but they offered great clarity and soundstage for a TW model. I'd seriously consider purchasing these once we see how reliable they are. It doesn't seem like they're getting a ton of traction in the marketplace with how few reviews there are both from Amazon customers and "pro" reviewers.

*Klipsch T5*: These were disappointing as they sounded muffled, thick and indistinct. After listening to the Marleys directly beforehand I was unimpressed with the Klipsch. They're not "bad" per se, but they aren't best in class, especially for the price. They are comfortable and build quality seems excellent. The case on these also feels like a lead weight, however. It's very sturdy but also surprisingly heavy.

*Master and Dynamic MW07:* This was my second audition of these in the past year and they sounded like I remembered. I know the MW07 is quite popular around these parts, but to my ears they sound thick, hazy and undefined in the bass and lower mids, similar to the Klipsch but with less recessed vocals. In a word, they sound veiled to me. Call me crazy but I think these are solidly mid-pack when it comes to the TW offerings available right now when it comes to sound quality. We all hear differently, but I'd take the Marleys over the MW07 in a heartbeat.


----------



## AtariPrime

webvan said:


> Very odd, haven't noticed anything different than with any other "sealing" IEM and the English (or German) reviews on YT either : https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=libratone+track+air+
> This one here (he also has the Sonys) is particularly interested :
> 
> So yes the ANC might be a bit weaker than on the WF-1000xm3, it's not night and day either and there's more of a difference between say the QC25 and the WF-1000MX3 than between the WF-1000MX3 and the Track Air+. It remains quite effective in any case and helps a great deal during commuting or flying (simulated so far by blasting this video ) and they can be worn for hours with no discomfort whatsoever.
> ...




The Sony WF-1000MX3 has no (as in zero) water/sweat/moisture resistance.  This makes them effectively useless for use in the gym or on a rainy day of any kind.  As a result, while the Sony WF-1000MX3 may have great sound, they are effectively useless for my purposes.  The Libratone Track Air+ on the other hand is very moisture resistant and is a lot smaller than the Sony WF-1000MX3, making them more practical in most applications.  As a result, the Libratone easily wins for me.


----------



## VTman (Sep 16, 2019)

Caipirina said:


> Wow! May I applaud your intricate detective skills? That's quite a find! Proprietary mold and only 5 models. No wonder kids are happy with that shape! already tried a picture search on AliX, alas .. ah well, may my 359 just hold forever.



Those buds should be around for a while. Even found a teardown site (in Chinese) showing what's inside of an older BT4.2 version with BES2000 chip.
http://www.zsdxzk.com/content/190328234858942.html

Hope this will give you more ideas and good luck with your search!


----------



## hifi80sman

Spamateur said:


> I was traveling this weekend and had some time to kill in the airport, so I hit up an InMotion store to audition some TW models:
> 
> *House of Marley Liberate Air*: These sounded really nice and were quite comfortable and light to wear. The sound is maybe a bit too bass-heavy for my taste, but they offered great clarity and soundstage for a TW model. I'd seriously consider purchasing these once we see how reliable they are. It doesn't seem like they're getting a ton of traction in the marketplace with how few reviews there are both from Amazon customers and "pro" reviewers.
> 
> ...


Nice.  I usually arrive at the airport far earlier than I need to and I also spend time at InMotion.  They even offer to open something up if they don't have a test unit available.  LOL!
*
House of Marley Liberate Air* - 100% agree with your assessment.  They are great in general and arguably best in their price class.  Only con are the lack of volume control on the earbuds, but other than that, beat my expectations, especially considering the are House of Marley (not necessarily the name that comes to mind when you think "great audio").

*Klipsch T5* - Haven't listened to them yet, but good feedback.  Your impressions mirror mine as far as my experience with the Klipsch R5 Neckband.

*Master and Dynamic MW07* - I have to get off the train with you on this one.  I have almost an opposite experience with the MW07. I've tried probably 6+ pairs and aside from differing battery life between several units/colors (seems Matte Black and Steel Blue have the worst battery life) they are exceptionally clear, transparent, and have great imaging.  There is a little bass rumble, but it's certainly not in the realm of thick mid-to-upper bass.  That being said, we all absolutely hear things differently, while the MW07 can also be a bit of a tricky fit.


----------



## Spamateur (Sep 16, 2019)

hifi80sman said:


> Nice.  I usually arrive at the airport far earlier than I need to and I also spend time at InMotion.  They even offer to open something up if they don't have a test unit available.  LOL!
> *
> House of Marley Liberate Air* - 100% agree with your assessment.  They are great in general and arguably best in their price class.  Only con are the lack of volume control on the earbuds, but other than that, beat my expectations, especially considering the are House of Marley (not necessarily the name that comes to mind when you think "great audio").
> 
> ...



Yeah I honestly don't know what's going on with my impressions of the MW07. I've tried them twice now and both times had the same experience, but it might just be that whatever is going on with the sound signature just isn't to my personal taste. The treble also bothers me on the MW07. It seems a bit peaky. Snare drum hits sound a little thin and "clicky" as opposed to a good "thwack" tonality I was hoping for. I see why people like these, but for whatever reason they just aren't to my taste. No judgement from me, however, as we all hear differently and like different sound signatures. I also seem to be one of the few that loves the Mavin Air-X with a passion, so take my impressions with a grain of salt.

If you like the MW07 you might like the Klipsch, but I think the MW07 did a better job with vocals. I used to own some Klipsch wired IEMs years ago and always thought they were pretty crappy for the price, so that might also have colored my opinion. Let me know if you happen to try them.

The Marleys really shocked me as they sounded pretty darn good. I'm tempted to pick up a pair after returning my Nuarls a few weeks ago due to disconnections. Have you had any issues with the Marleys? I see you're one of only 2 reviews on Amazon, and the other review mentions some disconnection problems.


----------



## Caipirina (Sep 16, 2019)

VTman said:


> Those buds should be around for a while. Even found a teardown site (in Chinese) showing what's inside of an older BT4.2 version with BES2000 chip.
> http://www.zsdxzk.com/content/190328234858942.html
> 
> Hope this will give you more ideas and good luck with your search!


Wow again. This was quite educational!

Seeing the buds layer bare like that... looks like the actual audio component was just an afterthought  

Think I found it on AliX 
https://s.click.aliexpress.com/e/40nuOzfE


----------



## hifi80sman

Spamateur said:


> Yeah I honestly don't know what's going on with my impressions of the MW07. I've tried them twice now and both times had the same experience, but it might just be that whatever is going on with the sound signature just isn't to my personal taste. The treble also bothers me on the MW07. It seems a bit peaky. Snare drum hits sound a little thin and "clicky" as opposed to a good "thwack" tonality I was hoping for. I see why people like these, but for whatever reason they just aren't to my taste. No judgement from me, however, as we all hear differently and like different sound signatures. I also seem to be one of the few that loves the Mavin Air-X with a passion, so take my impressions with a grain of salt.
> 
> If you like the MW07 you might like the Klipsch, but I think the MW07 did a better job with vocals. I used to own some Klipsch wired IEMs years ago and always thought they were pretty crappy for the price, so that might also have colored my opinion. Let me know if you happen to try them.
> 
> The Marleys really shocked me as they sounded pretty darn good. I'm tempted to pick up a pair after returning my Nuarls a few weeks ago due to disconnections. Have you had any issues with the Marleys? I see you're one of only 2 reviews on Amazon, and the other review mentions some disconnection problems.


I actually had a couple of weird connection issues recently, but it's not ongoing.  Basically, the right earbud just dropped out, and I had to put them back in the case, then take them out, but it worked fine after that.  This happened to me 2x, but nothing since and no spotty connection issues.  I use them mainly in the office (they work well for calls) and at the gym.  I have not tried to use them for travel yet, but I probably wouldn't anyway, since I just roll with the 1000XM3 headphones.


----------



## clerkpalmer

https://www.soundguys.com/apple-airpods-review-11072/

The review itself isn't interesting to me but the section that discusses how AAC performs poorly over android versus iOS is.  For those of us using AAC over Android, it's clearly a step down and problem in my view if SoundGuys are right (I have no reason to think otherwise). I wish I understood WHY.


----------



## vstolpner

clerkpalmer said:


> https://www.soundguys.com/apple-airpods-review-11072/
> 
> The review itself isn't interesting to me but the section that discusses how AAC performs poorly over android versus iOS is.  For those of us using AAC over Android, it's clearly a step down and problem in my view if SoundGuys are right (I have no reason to think otherwise). I wish I understood WHY.



Because Apple wants it's AirPods customers to also be it's iPhone customers. Creating one more barrier to keep you in the Apple ecosystem.

AAC sounds great on Android with just about every other pair of TWS I've tried. So the only possibility is how Apple configured it's AirPods for Android


----------



## clerkpalmer

vstolpner said:


> Because Apple wants it's AirPods customers to also be it's iPhone customers. Creating one more barrier to keep you in the Apple ecosystem.
> 
> AAC sounds great on Android with just about every other pair of TWS I've tried. So the only possibility is how Apple configured it's AirPods for Android



Hmmm.  I have read similar articles from SoundGuys saying that it's not limited to Airpods.  Basically ALL AAC sounds better over ios for some reason.


----------



## hifi80sman

clerkpalmer said:


> https://www.soundguys.com/apple-airpods-review-11072/
> 
> The review itself isn't interesting to me but the section that discusses how AAC performs poorly over android versus iOS is.  For those of us using AAC over Android, it's clearly a step down and problem in my view if SoundGuys are right (I have no reason to think otherwise). I wish I understood WHY.


I believe Apple has their own proprietary AAC encoder/decoder (codec), while Android uses an off-the-shelf open source version.  Additionally, because AAC is processing heavy, I'd venture to guess Apple's own processor can flawlessly handle their own propriety version of the AAC codec, just as most apps generally run better on an iPhone (everyone has to play in their sandbox).  For gaming, I never use my Android devices, as the iPhone is light years smoother and simply provides better gameplay.


----------



## FYLegend

VTman said:


> Bought these TWS mainly for the kids. I am not a big fan of bluetooth audio and already have more headphones/earbuds than I really need.....
> 
> Original plan was to find those Anbes 359's because of so many positive reviews/comments in this thread. But it seems those 359 are no longer available, so I changed the plan trying to find same buds made by same manufacturer but under other different reseller brands just like what many others did. It's a bit risky because there were some mixed feedbacks, until I found a webpage seems to be the factory in Shenzhen making all those UFO/BE30 variants. They claim those water drop shaped buds are out of a proprietary mold, and listed total 5 versions of the BE30 available for bulk orders. The cheapest version has Pixart BT solution, then 3 versions using Realtek solution. The latest and most expensive version has a Qualcomm QCC3020 chip in it. That latter one became my new target.
> 
> After few days searching on Amazon, I ordered these Kanoe model even though the charging case is not UFO shaped. As I don't have the original 359 to compare the sound, thus cannot be 100% sure if these are really what I think they were. But, considering the price point (<40), these are quite good in terms of build and sound quality. I am very happy with my purchase, so are the kids. YMMV


Nice, I thought they were different OEMS as I was seeing them on Alibaba under Ancreu, DOGO, Smart, but it seems some of these might be "brands" rather than OEM. DOGO asserted they collaborated with Monster which explains the Airlinks HD. Wish there was the QCC3020 with a UFO case, though it would be golden if someone adds Qi charging.

Anyone tried these before? Unfortunately it's not Amazon fulfilled so shipping is longer...
https://www.amazon.ca/KOSETON-Bluet...s=koseton&qid=1568657293&s=electronics&sr=1-1


----------



## Barusu Lamperouge

Caipirina said:


> Not sure how he thought of Awei in this case. And at least you have Amazon .in
> Maybe they have the Tranya. (T3 or B530)
> 
> The Mpow t5 can be had from AliX for 51.35$ and they are very good.



Not sure how he thought of Awei. Amazon.in has all crap tws because of their launchpad tieups who sell Chinese OEMs at 3-4x the original cost. Will check about Tranya and Mpow ones. Thanks for the tip.


----------



## VTman (Sep 16, 2019)

FYLegend said:


> Anyone tried these before? Unfortunately it's not Amazon fulfilled so shipping is longer...
> https://www.amazon.ca/KOSETON-Bluet...s=koseton&qid=1568657293&s=electronics&sr=1-1



https://www.jakedeal.com/amz/product/detail.jspx?pr=B07VK61D6L
Not sure if this deal is still valid, 50% off if you buy from Amazon.com


----------



## oiac320

After lots of reads through the forum, I've just decided to go with an Edifier TWS5. Seems like the best middle ground option between chi-fi low price and recognizable brand with decent QC. The review from Gamesky was decisive since it cleared some of the features like independence of buds. Volume control is not something that I care so I guess that's why it doesn't bother me much.

Thanks for all the inputs on the thread. I've lurked and learned a lot. I'm not an expert on audio quality, but I can come back and at the very least give my insights about the functionality and quality.

They have to ship from China so now the wait begins


----------



## gibletzor

oiac320 said:


> After lots of reads through the forum, I've just decided to go with an Edifier TWS5. Seems like the best middle ground option between chi-fi low price and recognizable brand with decent QC. The review from Gamesky was decisive since it cleared some of the features like independence of buds. Volume control is not something that I care so I guess that's why it doesn't bother me much.
> 
> Thanks for all the inputs on the thread. I've lurked and learned a lot. I'm not an expert on audio quality, but I can come back and at the very least give my insights about the functionality and quality.
> 
> They have to ship from China so now the wait begins


I'd be very interested to know what you think of it after you get it.  I've been looking at them for a while.


----------



## tlau1125

tlau1125 said:


> Just received the Edifier TWS1 from AliExpress yesterday:
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33036956266.html
> First impression is good.  I haven’t attempted to compare it side by side with the QCY T1C which is the only other pair of TWS I have, but based on my memory here are the differences I notice:
> - The Edifier is louder (may be that’s why I can hear some background faint hiss when there is nothing playing).  The announcements are also very loud.
> ...



I have tested the Edifier TWS1 a bit more, and one noticeable weakness compared to the QCY T1C is bluetooth reception.  While walking on the street in downtown Vancouver (Canada) with my iPhone in my left jean pocket, I experienced some cut off.  The left bud is primary for Edifier and the right bud is primary for QCY so you would expect the Edifier to be less prone to cut off since the primary is closer to the device but QCY actually performs better.  I do not know for sure if clothing played a role because I was wearing more due to the cooler weather.

The Edifier also has a range issue with my rather old Macbook Pro that only supports BT 2.1.  The issue may not be related to the BT version but just the strength of the Macbook Pro's signal.  The Edifier started cutting off within 5 feet when I oriented myself a certain way whereas QCY worked from a larger distance.  It also seems the right bud performed better than the left bud, which is unfortunate because the left bud is primary when used in stereo mode.

I'll put a feedback on AliExpress and see what the seller says.


----------



## Rob E.

VTman said:


> https://www.jakedeal.com/amz/product/detail.jspx?pr=B07VK61D6L
> Not sure if this deal is still valid, 50% off if you buy from Amazon.com



Yes, it's still valid. I'll post back in a few days whether or not it was a wise purchase sonically speaking.


----------



## HiFlight (Sep 16, 2019)

Rob E. said:


> Yes, it's still valid. I'll post back in a few days whether or not it was a wise purchase sonically speaking.


I don't see any code to enter when ordering on amazon, nor do I see one on the Jake link.  ????
EDIT:  Disregard...I see you have to be a member and log in to get the code.  No thanks!


----------



## Rob E. (Sep 16, 2019)

HiFlight said:


> I don't see any code to enter when ordering on amazon, nor do I see one on the Jake link.  ????
> EDIT:  Disregard...I see you have to be a member and log in to get the code.  No thanks!



I saw that too, so I gave up my email to get the deal. Not too high a price to pay if the buds are good ...and I liked the bird logo.


----------



## hifi80sman

HiFlight said:


> I don't see any code to enter when ordering on amazon, nor do I see one on the Jake link.  ????
> EDIT:  Disregard...I see you have to be a member and log in to get the code.  No thanks!


Just create a dummy email account!


----------



## VTman

tlau1125 said:


> ...While walking on the street in downtown Vancouver (Canada) ...



Warm greetings from Richmond^^


----------



## vstolpner

tlau1125 said:


> While walking on the street in downtown Vancouver (Canada)....





VTman said:


> Warm greetings from Richmond^^




And from Langley!


----------



## Firevortex

webvan said:


> Since you are oddly so strongly opinionated about how inferior the Track Air + compared to the WF-1000MX3 that you already own, you should really do yourself a favor and check them out for yourself.



how can i be oddly opinionated as i don't own those buds? why would you accuse me of that since my initial post few pages back clearly says it were from reviews you've asked me to link*.* then you proceed to discredit the review, follow by implying that i've got a chip on my shoulder against the Track Air+ for posting the sources you requested that has a different opinion than you??

i don't know mate, sounds like you are the one that's opinionated since you own them? i have no opinions just putting forwards other reviews i gathered when i was doing research. If you think they are all incorrect than great?


----------



## Caipirina

Dani157 said:


> Not sure how he thought of Awei. Amazon.in has all crap tws because of their launchpad tieups who sell Chinese OEMs at 3-4x the original cost. Will check about Tranya and Mpow ones. Thanks for the tip.


Checked for Tranya on amz.in and wow, you are not kidding with 3-4 times the price ... so silly ... is there like a crazy tax on shipments from China that prevents people from using AliExpress? 
Greetings from your friendly neighbor island to the south, where we do not even have amazon.sl


----------



## Barusu Lamperouge

Caipirina said:


> Checked for Tranya on amz.in and wow, you are not kidding with 3-4 times the price ... so silly ... is there like a crazy tax on shipments from China that prevents people from using AliExpress?
> Greetings from your friendly neighbor island to the south, where we do not even have amazon.sl



It's about India's trade policy of promoting local products. So if chifi products are bought in India from Indian sellers we have to pay crazy taxes. Also, Amazon India is promoting local startups via their launchpad program so many sellers refrain from selling chifi there. Lastly, most of this startups use OEMs so it's all the more pointless for chifi sellers to use Amazon. But AliExpress is a good outlet to purchase chifi stuff without extra taxes and at a genuine price. Greetings to you as well! Trust me you're missing nothing via amazon.sl. lol


----------



## Caipirina

Has anyone tried these? Thanks to the fantastic detective work of @VTman I found these Anbes 359 lookalikes, but as we all know, no guarantee if they sound the same ... I might bite the bullet and take one for the team to find out   I just really like that tear drop bud shape ... even if they are only 80% as good as the Anbes I;d be a very happy camper.


----------



## Caipirina

By the way: Listening to the Ytom T1  (Wafefun Xpods 3?)  and I am way more impressed than I thought I would be. And I have not even tried the AptX from my Shanling yet. Fit is proper and very sparkly details with good but not overwhelming bass. 

I am planning to do an altogether post discussing the latest sale loot ... or maybe I should create a review website / blog like scarbir? dunno ...


----------



## georgelai57

It seems that every day, a new TWS comes onto the market, almost as regularly as POTUS’s tweets! At the current rate, there is not much point discussing every new FOTM (or FOTD) TWS as to which is better or worse or ”not as good as” without discussing the following points in detail (besides form factor, SQ, battery life, IPX rating, weight, etc, etc):
1. Bluetooth version
2. Bluetooth protocols
3. Bluetooth codecs

For my handful of Chinese and non-China TWS (I’m not including my headphones, custom IEMs, etc which are all wired anyway), I use Apple Music off an iPhone XR, and to me at least, the things I look out for are the chip used, BT 5.0 and AAC. I also look for AptX in case I ever switch to Android. If the TWS I’m considering doesn’t have these, no other feature matters to me.


----------



## vstolpner (Sep 17, 2019)

Caipirina said:


> By the way: Listening to the Ytom T1  (Wafefun Xpods 3?)  and I am way more impressed than I thought I would be. And I have not even tried the AptX from my Shanling yet. Fit is proper and very sparkly details with good but not overwhelming bass.
> 
> I am planning to do an altogether post discussing the latest sale loot ... or maybe I should create a review website / blog like scarbir? dunno ...



Interesting, I found the Wavefun to be altogether satisfactory. The most impressive aspect was the size of the case and the inclusion of aptX at that price. The sound was a touch muffled but, in fairness, the bass was strong without overpowering.
Oh and I should mention the use of USB type-C was a nice change.

With all that, mine sit in a drawer. Much prefer the Mpow T5 for clarity and Tranya T3 for stronger bass.

Shameless plug: see my review of them in the reviews linked below :-D


----------



## vstolpner

georgelai57 said:


> It seems that every day, a new TWS comes onto the market, almost as regularly as POTUS’s tweets! At the current rate, there is not much point discussing every new FOTM (or FOTD) TWS as to which is better or worse or ”not as good as” without discussing the following points in detail (besides form factor, SQ, battery life, IPX rating, weight, etc, etc):
> 1. Bluetooth version
> 2. Bluetooth protocols
> 3. Bluetooth codecs
> ...



Just to point out the obvious - you can get all of your requirements in a really cheap TWS that simply uses a Qualcomm chip but skimps out on everything else, including looking for a good quality driver or at the very least in tuning it properly.

Seems like what you're suggesting is chasing specs, but if that was it you wouldn't be using an iPhone either. It doesn't have the biggest battery, the highest resolution display, the latest in display fingerprint scanner, a quad DAC audio system, etc... I'm guessing you use an iPhone because it delivers the features you want, so should your earphones.

Not trying to antagonize, just sharing my perspective.


----------



## webvan (Sep 17, 2019)

Caipirina said:


> Has anyone tried these? Thanks to the fantastic detective work of @VTman I found these Anbes 359 lookalikes, but as we all know, no guarantee if they sound the same ... I might bite the bullet and take one for the team to find out   I just really like that tear drop bud shape ... even if they are only 80% as good as the Anbes I;d be a very happy camper.



They seem to be like the "HTFYCH" I spotted the other day and someone pointed out it wasn't the same "teardrop" shape as the Anbes and that looks correct. A slight variation for the buds but the rest seems identical (3 contacts for instance)...I don't think anyone's shared their thoughts about this one here ?

EDIT - actually it looks like yet another variation !


----------



## charleski

clerkpalmer said:


> https://www.soundguys.com/apple-airpods-review-11072/
> 
> The review itself isn't interesting to me but the section that discusses how AAC performs poorly over android versus iOS is.  For those of us using AAC over Android, it's clearly a step down and problem in my view if SoundGuys are right (I have no reason to think otherwise). I wish I understood WHY.


Their full article on the problems with AAC on Android is here:  https://www.soundguys.com/the-ultimate-guide-to-bluetooth-headphones-aac-20296
The review you linked includes some of the graphs from that one. It's been suggested that the major problem is power. AAC is a relatively power-hungry codec and some Android devices might scale down the encoding to be more energy efficient.

I'm always sceptical when people say they can hear major differences between codecs, but if you're running an AAC encoder that cuts off everything over 15k that will probably be audible, especially for young ears.


----------



## Goulou

AtariPrime said:


> The Sony WF-1000MX3 has no (as in zero) water/sweat/moisture resistance.  This makes them effectively useless for use in the gym or on a rainy day of any kind.  As a result, while the Sony WF-1000MX3 may have great sound, they are effectively useless for my purposes.  The Libratone Track Air+ on the other hand is very moisture resistant and is a lot smaller than the Sony WF-1000MX3, making them more practical in most applications.  As a result, the Libratone easily wins for me.



To be fair I've used multiple IEMs (both wired/wireless) that didn't have any sort of sweat resistance for a decade at the gym, or when I go out jogging even when it's hot and I'm really sweaty, I've never had a pair that stopped working. The AirPods are not sweat resistant and I see every day people using them at the gym just fine.

My guess is that the Sony would be fine too.


----------



## hifi80sman

Anyone give these "Bomaker" TWS a shot yet? 10% off coupon + promo code XPXVCURW gets them down to $29.98.  My collection is getting too big and my wife is starting to ask a lot of questions, so I need to make sure they are a solid buy before I hit "Buy Now".


----------



## Caipirina

georgelai57 said:


> It seems that every day, a new TWS comes onto the market, almost as regularly as POTUS’s tweets! At the current rate, there is not much point discussing every new FOTM (or FOTD) TWS as to which is better or worse or ”not as good as” without discussing the following points in detail (besides form factor, SQ, battery life, IPX rating, weight, etc, etc):
> 1. Bluetooth version
> 2. Bluetooth protocols
> 3. Bluetooth codecs
> ...



I agree that there are way toooo many TWS on the market, but on the other hand I do appreciate all the personal insights people share here. 
I also find it interesting that diff people value diff factors. For me i.e. I don't care much about Type C connector .. and while AptX feels like a 'nice to have' these days, it's also not a deal breaker for me ... On the other hand I am getting tired of those manufacturers who just try to cram in more 'functions', like 'can charge your phone' extra battery power, which makes the case bigger and honestly, with the few sets I have that have that, I never used it ... waste of resources IMHO. Also don't need the LCD number display nor the 'phone stent [sic]' (act as a phone stand) function ... and don't get me started on wristwatch or thermos bottles mounted TWS  

I like my cases as small as possible, my listening sessions are usually not that long, so I am even ok with 3-4h battery life ... I like a solid V shape, but also enjoy the UiiSii, which are on the brighter end of the spectrum for things like classical. 

The next big thing I AM looking for is proper ANC, and in this regard I am quite smitten by that 32$ (sale & coupons price) Bonola, which I still hope to write a bit more about at some point. I also would not mind to have the buds shrink to the size of Bose Sleepbuds so that I can actually sleep on the side with them and they turn of silently when they run out of battery  

Different people, different priorities


----------



## Caipirina

hifi80sman said:


> Anyone give these "Bomaker" TWS a shot yet? 10% off coupon + promo code XPXVCURW gets them down to $29.98.  My collection is getting too big and my wife is starting to ask a lot of questions, so I need to make sure they are a solid buy before I hit "Buy Now".



Oooh, they pretty! 

And yeah, wife has been asking questions here as well when 3 more parcels arrived ... she asked 'aren't those expensive?' .. and I pointed at the declared customs value   ... also mentioned that those 3 parcels are still less than that massage she booked the other day  

Maybe a blessing that I cannot order from your amazon ... and take advantage of your uncanny knowledge of extra discount coupons


----------



## LordToneeus

hifi80sman said:


> Anyone give these "Bomaker" TWS a shot yet? 10% off coupon + promo code XPXVCURW gets them down to $29.98.  My collection is getting too big and my wife is starting to ask a lot of questions, so I need to make sure they are a solid buy before I hit "Buy Now".



All right, I’m triggered. I’ll let you know after I receive them tomorrow.


----------



## C_Lindbergh (Sep 17, 2019)

Just got this answer from Klipsch after asking about an Ambient mode for their T5 True Wireless:

"Thanks for contacting product support. While the ambient mode is not accessible at this time, we will shortly be releasing an application that will incorporate the ambient mode for these headphones. We do not have an exact date when that will be released, but we are expecting it to be in the next 2 months. "

Sadly I've read there's some connection problems with these, but if it can be fixed, along with the app that will enable EQ and Ambient mode... These will almost tick all my boxes for True Wireless 

Might be a great deal during black Friday if connection issues are fixed and the new features are released in a good working condition.

*Good Sound Quailty ( SQ is really good according to reviews, will be even better with EQ )
* IPX4 water-resistance
* Ambient Mode/EQ
* Full controls (no BS unlike Sony)
* Good Battery life
*Case not too big
* APTX

Only thing missing will be APTX LL and Multi Point. 

Also they are cheaper than both the Sony's and Sennheisers TWS.


----------



## Rob E. (Sep 17, 2019)

VTman said:


> https://www.jakedeal.com/amz/product/detail.jspx?pr=B07VK61D6L
> Not sure if this deal is still validCurious how they'll , 50% off if you buy from Amazon.com



https://fccid.io/2AUIX-E8

Inbound. Was a good deal, curious how'll they sound.


----------



## nerdspot (Sep 17, 2019)

Is it just me or do these look similar to the Syllable S101s?

Also, did anyone get their Jade Audio EW1 pre-order? I managed to get in at $30 on Amazon.com and mine will arrive on Friday.


----------



## stringgz301

YankeeFan said:


> Still a noob to this forum for the most part. And definitely qualify for being included in the TWEA Group.
> I do have a few True Wireless Earbuds and for what it’s worth, here are my impressions.
> 
> Master & Dynamic MW 07 - this is long term since they first came out...great sound, nice bass..vocals ok, battery life a bit of an issue
> ...



For what it's worth, I've had the Momentum TW's for about 4 months now, and they are probably my worst technology purchase ever.  Never-ending connections issues (even today) with my Pixel 3, signal dropping to the left earbud when you turn your head (apparently this is a known issue), really poor battery life when sitting in the case, need to heavily EQ them via the smartphone app to make them anywhere close to neutral (as delivered they EQ is a big U).  Sound is ok but not remotely at the level of wired in-ear monitors. Not worth anything near $240 list.  Strongly avoid!


----------



## webvan

nerdspot said:


> Is it just me or do these look similar to the Syllable S101s?.


Indeed but these have "wings" which I've always as that helps to maintain the seal even if you move about.


----------



## DDDYKI

stringgz301 said:


> For what it's worth, I've had the Momentum TW's for about 4 months now, and they are probably my worst technology purchase ever.  Never-ending connections issues (even today) with my Pixel 3, signal dropping to the left earbud when you turn your head (apparently this is a known issue), really poor battery life when sitting in the case, need to heavily EQ them via the smartphone app to make them anywhere close to neutral (as delivered they EQ is a big U).  Sound is ok but not remotely at the level of wired in-ear monitors. Not worth anything near $240 list.  Strongly avoid!


This is why I can't understand why I still see people recommending the Momentums. As if connectivity and battery issues can be ignored, especially at that price point! 


nerdspot said:


> Also, did anyone get their Jade Audio EW1 pre-order? I managed to get in at $30 on Amazon.com and mine will arrive on Friday.


Yup, I'll be getting mine tomorrow. Figured $30 was acceptable to take a chance.


----------



## TK33

stringgz301 said:


> For what it's worth, I've had the Momentum TW's for about 4 months now, and they are probably my worst technology purchase ever.  Never-ending connections issues (even today) with my Pixel 3, signal dropping to the left earbud when you turn your head (apparently this is a known issue), really poor battery life when sitting in the case, need to heavily EQ them via the smartphone app to make them anywhere close to neutral (as delivered they EQ is a big U).  Sound is ok but not remotely at the level of wired in-ear monitors. Not worth anything near $240 list.  Strongly avoid!





DDDYKI said:


> This is why I can't understand why I still see people recommending the Momentums. As if connectivity and battery issues can be ignored, especially at that price point!



Agree the MTWs need EQ, battery life is subpar, and they are definitely not the bang for the buck but I actually have not had the connection issues that you describe and I use them every day to commute into NYC (1 1/2+ hours each way).  Just the normal skips that happen in certain areas due to NYC interference.  I only use these for commuting so the battery life has not bothered me but I would not recommend them if they are your only earbuds as they would not be practical for something like air travel.  Maybe I just have not had them long enough for the problems to manifest as I have only had these for a little over a month but I have not regretted buying them.


----------



## howdy (Sep 17, 2019)

TK33 said:


> Agree the MTWs need EQ, battery life is subpar, and they are definitely not the bang for the buck but I actually have not had the connection issues that you describe and I use them every day to commute into NYC (1 1/2+ hours each way).  Just the normal skips that happen in certain areas due to NYC interference.  I only use these for commuting so the battery life has not bothered me but I would not recommend them if they are your only earbuds as they would not be practical for something like air travel.  Maybe I just have not had them long enough for the problems to manifest as I have only had these for a little over a month but I have not regretted buying them.


I agree with you, I don't recall any drop outs with my Senns, ever. As for sound I have it eq'ed a bit and they sound pretty damn good, no real complaints. However, despite a few negative comments here I still prefer my Sony XM3 to everything I have. I know the battery life is less than desirable for a 300 dollar TWS for the Senns but if you charge it every 4 days there is no issue.


----------



## tlau1125 (Sep 18, 2019)

tlau1125 said:


> I have tested the Edifier TWS1 a bit more, and one noticeable weakness compared to the QCY T1C is bluetooth reception.  While walking on the street in downtown Vancouver (Canada) with my iPhone in my left jean pocket, I experienced some cut off.  The left bud is primary for Edifier and the right bud is primary for QCY so you would expect the Edifier to be less prone to cut off since the primary is closer to the device but QCY actually performs better.  I do not know for sure if clothing played a role because I was wearing more due to the cooler weather.
> 
> The Edifier also has a range issue with my rather old Macbook Pro that only supports BT 2.1.  The issue may not be related to the BT version but just the strength of the Macbook Pro's signal.  The Edifier started cutting off within 5 feet when I oriented myself a certain way whereas QCY worked from a larger distance.  It also seems the right bud performed better than the left bud, which is unfortunate because the left bud is primary when used in stereo mode.
> 
> I'll put a feedback on AliExpress and see what the seller says.


I've been messaging via AliExpress with the Edifier Office Store that sold me the Edifier TWS1.  The rep suggested a few things, like re-pairing and charging.  None of those helped.  Now it is clear that the reception on the left earpiece is significantly weaker than the right earpiece.  I believe the left earpiece is defective.

They sound great and are useable in ideal situations (device close by with no obstructions) but can breakup from time to time even with my phone in the front left jean pocket.  Exchange/return would cost money (likely need to pay to ship back to the store).  The store may offer partial refund but then I'll be left with another set of partially working TWS (My QCY T1C has a broken microphone).

Why can't I just have a properly working pair of TWS?


----------



## Caipirina

Please, God. Make.It.Stop!


----------



## Caipirina

nerdspot said:


> Is it just me or do these look similar to the Syllable S101s?



The Soundpeats Truengine (1 I supposed, opposed to the new 2 on Kickstarter) has been on AliX for a while and looks like a 100% copy / version of the S101 but without AptX... 

now, Truengine 2 has wings and it appears a slighlty new logo ... interesting


----------



## vstolpner

Caipirina said:


> Please, God. Make.It.Stop!



Oh if only they were a little more shiny they would go so well with my pants!!!


----------



## charleski

nerdspot said:


> Is it just me or do these look similar to the Syllable S101s?


Apart from the wings it looks like they modified the firmware. There's no volume control on these, which you get on the S101. But they do advertise Qualcomm's True Wireless Stereo Plus (i.e. each bud connects directly to the phone) and I'm not sure that happens on the S101. They've also changed to touch control rather than a physical button, and according to the xda review this is even more fiddly.

I'm not sure if there's any change to the actual drivers and tuning. These ones talk about 'beryllium-plated' and 'composite' drivers, whereas the S101 uses 'PET' and 'graphene' diaphragms. As the inverted commas indicate, I'm not sure how seriously we should take either description. Soundpeats used to sell a set with an identical shell to the S101, but using an Airoha chip, and I suspect their ODM is reusing a lot of the tooling and components for this design. The talk of a 'full and thumpy low-end' suggests they haven't changed the frequency response, but I couldn't find any decent review that actually measured them.

The wings might enhance the fit a bit. I haven't had any problems with my S101s falling out in normal use, but I'm not doing anything too strenuous. If you're a fan of touch controls that might be a plus as well. But otherwise it's a hard sell when the S101s are less than half the price and you can get them right now.


----------



## Firevortex

stringgz301 said:


> For what it's worth, I've had the Momentum TW's for about 4 months now, and they are probably my worst technology purchase ever.  Never-ending connections issues (even today) with my Pixel 3, signal dropping to the left earbud when you turn your head (apparently this is a known issue), really poor battery life when sitting in the case, need to heavily EQ them via the smartphone app to make them anywhere close to neutral (as delivered they EQ is a big U).  Sound is ok but not remotely at the level of wired in-ear monitors. Not worth anything near $240 list.  Strongly avoid!



ouch, thats a pretty bad experience from something quite expensive.  i didn't experienced issues with connection. i did how ever had issues with pairing and firmware upgrade at the start. battery life does suck, their smartphone app is next to useless, the way they implemented the app EQ is stupid compared to something like Sony/Jabra. the sound is definitely better than XM3 prob one of the best out there for TWE. its more comfortable to wear than the XM3 been lighter and smaller.

you are expecting too much for new tech. TWEs has only been out for what? 2-3years? how long has wired IEMs been around for?


----------



## mikp

Do not look at  True Wireless Stereo Plus as a sales argument. Not seen any indication that it works in real life with any snapdragon 845+ devices.

Have had the mavins since november, and tws+ is not working on any phone tested. Also qualcomm will not actually give example of any 845+ enabled devices it works on, just says its up to phone manufacturer to implement it.

Also got the syllable s101, just since finally tws under 30$ had apt-x. They are ok and come a long way for 30$.


----------



## Bartig

Got the Edifier TWS1. Very comfortable to my ears, touch controls are so-so and control scheme is a bit weird, haven't noticed Bluetooth issues yet, sound is smooth yet a bit dark. 

Also, git this package delivered from Creative. Sweet.


----------



## hifi80sman

Bartig said:


> Got the Edifier TWS1. Very comfortable to my ears, touch controls are so-so and control scheme is a bit weird, haven't noticed Bluetooth issues yet, sound is smooth yet a bit dark.
> 
> Also, git this package delivered from Creative. Sweet.


I *had *the Outlier Air and currently *have *the Outlier Gold.  Basing my impressions only on memory, the Outlier Gold sounds a bit more refined with less bass bloat.  I'd be curious as to your A/B, given I did not have that luxury.  Also, curious what you think about the Super X-Fi on the Gold.  For me, it's really only useful for games and maybe movies, but I didn't like it for music.

Did you receive them from Creative to review/test or did you purchase on your own?


----------



## charleski

mikp said:


> Do not look at  True Wireless Stereo Plus as a sales argument. Not seen any indication that it works in real life with any snapdragon 845+ devices.
> 
> Have had the mavins since november, and tws+ is not working on any phone tested. Also qualcomm will not actually give example of any 845+ enabled devices it works on, just says its up to phone manufacturer to implement it.
> 
> Also got the syllable s101, just since finally tws under 30$ had apt-x. They are ok and come a long way for 30$.


Turn down the bass and they get a lot better. Only had them a week, but I'm getting more impressed as time goes by.


----------



## Mouseman

Caipirina said:


> The Soundpeats Truengine (1 I supposed, opposed to the new 2 on Kickstarter) has been on AliX for a while and looks like a 100% copy / version of the S101 but without AptX...
> 
> now, Truengine 2 has wings and it appears a slighlty new logo ... interesting


It also appears very similar to the KNX SoundFlux that I backed, with the addition of those wings and touch rather than buttons. The buds weren't actually that bad, I guess they were very similar/the same as the #1s. Battery life sucked, less than promised, and the case was a dumpster fire. I'm really done with KS/indegogo and their recycled crap, I've been burned by too many TWS campaigns.


----------



## Caipirina

Mouseman said:


> It also appears very similar to the KNX SoundFlux that I backed, with the addition of those wings and touch rather than buttons. The buds weren't actually that bad, I guess they were very similar/the same as the #1s. Battery life sucked, less than promised, and the case was a dumpster fire. I'm really done with KS/indegogo and their recycled crap, I've been burned by too many TWS campaigns.


Only once did I ‘fall’ for a KS campaign... was a new thing back then. Imagine my surprise when I saw a lookalike of the finished product on AliExpress cheaper than the KS offer, while the KS people were still sending me delay emails ...

Those guys. Ah, good memories. Ended up never receiving them ...


----------



## charleski

Caipirina said:


> Only once did I ‘fall’ for a KS campaign... was a new thing back then. Imagine my surprise when I saw a lookalike of the finished product on AliExpress cheaper than the KS offer, while the KS people were still sending me delay emails ...
> 
> Those guys. Ah, good memories. Ended up never receiving them ...


There are basically two types of crowd-funding campaign:

Ones that are basically a bulk-buy from a Chinese ODM who's already established the design. The importer slaps their brand on it and provides some elementary support, and in some cases might commission a few tweaks to the firmware. You can guarantee that the same design will show up on AliX for half the price, 

Ones that are a truly original design that's then outsourced to a contract manufacturer on an exclusive basis. Since most of the people behind these campaigns have little experience with industrial design, these projects tend to suffer large cost overruns and in most cases never ship at all.

I'm not sure why anyone would bother with either of them.


----------



## Soreniglio (Sep 18, 2019)

I received my Areabi T515, they surely sound warm, and a bit bass-heavy, but sound is very pleasant I have to say, bass do not overpower the other ranges.

EDM music is great with these, try listening to Zomby's "Natalia's Song", they are amazing at it.

They're really loud BTW, way louder than my previous QCY and Anbes.


EDIT: I'm listening to a bit of post-rock, and I think these are...okayish with this genre of music, which is made of mainly highs and lows, I think bass drowns the highs a bit, and the sound is a tiny bit muffled...

I don't know for sure, but I think I might return these, unless they open up, I want my post-rock to be clear, not drowned out by the bass.


----------



## Mouseman

charleski said:


> There are basically two types of crowd-funding campaign:
> 
> Ones that are basically a bulk-buy from a Chinese ODM who's already established the design. The importer slaps their brand on it and provides some elementary support, and in some cases might commission a few tweaks to the firmware. You can guarantee that the same design will show up on AliX for half the price,
> 
> ...


Because we are suckers and buy the pitch.  
None of the ones I've backed (only 3, so I'm at least a slow learner) have failed to ship, but they also haven't generally met the original specifications and any issues post-sale mean you're SOL.

You forgot the third type. The one where they have a somewhat innovative design or features, and they outsource to a contract manufacturer who turns right around and sells without a logo prior to any of the backers getting their units. At a much cheaper price. I've been involved in those. Some of those are selling on Amazon at "full" retail price, and it appears that at least some people have fallen for it.

I understand that some companies do KS or Indegogo for PR purposes (cough, cough....Advanced), and I'm not sure why people keep falling for it. Are you really saving any money on an "early bird" if it's delayed several months?


----------



## mikp

heres another soundpeats trueengine witch qcc3020 and volume control .


----------



## Bartig

hifi80sman said:


> I *had *the Outlier Air and currently *have *the Outlier Gold.  Basing my impressions only on memory, the Outlier Gold sounds a bit more refined with less bass bloat.  I'd be curious as to your A/B, given I did not have that luxury.  Also, curious what you think about the Super X-Fi on the Gold.  For me, it's really only useful for games and maybe movies, but I didn't like it for music.
> 
> Did you receive them from Creative to review/test or did you purchase on your own?


I got these to review. Haven't had the time to properly test them yet. Do notice severe Bluetooth connection problems on the Gold though.


----------



## DDDYKI

Bartig said:


> I got these to review. Haven't had the time to properly test them yet. Do notice severe Bluetooth connection problems on the Gold though.


I mentioned earlier in the thread somewhere my Outlier Air had a lot of trouble keeping a solid connection outside, even in areas where I've never had a problem. My phone would literally be on my chest (in a pouch hanging on my bag strap) and it would stutter horrendously and drop the left bud.


----------



## HiFlight

DDDYKI said:


> I mentioned earlier in the thread somewhere my Outlier Air had a lot of trouble keeping a solid connection outside, even in areas where I've never had a problem. My phone would literally be on my chest (in a pouch hanging on my bag strap) and it would stutter horrendously and drop the left bud.


I had exactly the same experience with my Outlier Air's.  Never were even remotely satisfactory when outside to to very poor connectivity.  Returned them to Creative for full refund.


----------



## hifi80sman

HiFlight said:


> I had exactly the same experience with my Outlier Air's.  Never were even remotely satisfactory when outside to to very poor connectivity.  Returned them to Creative for full refund.


Interesting.  I haven't had any connection issues with my Outlier Gold yet.  I'm not in the subway or anything like that, but no issues at the gym and none in the office.  Using an iPhone Xs Max.


----------



## VTman

mikp said:


> heres another soundpeats trueengine witch qcc3020 and volume control .



Saw another one only sold in Asia...TaoTronics Duo Free+


----------



## hifi80sman

Just picked these things up.  $33, USB-C, AAC, touch controls, case that can charge your phone.  I already have these from the same "company", so hopefully this version sounds good or better!


----------



## d3myz

Caipirina said:


> The Soundpeats Truengine (1 I supposed, opposed to the new 2 on Kickstarter) has been on AliX for a while and looks like a 100% copy / version of the S101 but without AptX...
> 
> now, Truengine 2 has wings and it appears a slighlty new logo ... interesting


It wouldnt' suprise me if soundpeats was copying the Syllable design, but Syllable was also not the first and only company to use the S101's dual driver design. 



charleski said:


> Turn down the bass and they get a lot better. Only had them a week, but I'm getting more impressed as time goes by.


Any word on functionality with the new Snapdragon 855+? I read the one plus 7 is using it.


----------



## hifi80sman (Sep 18, 2019)

VTman said:


> Saw another one only sold in Asia...TaoTronics Duo Free+


Those look very similar to the Tribit FlyBuds, except those have wireless charging and MicroUSB, while the FlyBuds have USB-C and no wireless charging.  Off-the-shelf options, baby!


----------



## LordToneeus

hifi80sman said:


> Anyone give these "Bomaker" TWS a shot yet? 10% off coupon + promo code XPXVCURW gets them down to $29.98.  My collection is getting too big and my wife is starting to ask a lot of questions, so I need to make sure they are a solid buy before I hit "Buy Now".



I've had them for about an hour now, and I would definitely classify these as a "solid buy"- ESPECIALLY for $30.   

They are very small and light, and do not stick out of my ears.  They do not seat as well for me as the Mpow T5, Panfrey's, or the Ofusho F16's, but after a walk and a jog up some stairs I can tell you they aren't going anywhere.  The case is one of the smallest I've come across.  

Music is clear, clean - no mud here.  Bass is there. It's well-articulated, not boomy.  Highs are crisp.  These are bright, but not too bright.  They've handled every genre I've thrown at them so far very well. 

Not so much as a hiccup so far, and that's including a 10 minute walk outside.  

I am well-pleased (so far) with this addition to my collection.


----------



## mattedialdoc

LordToneeus said:


> I've had them for about an hour now, and I would definitely classify these as a "solid buy"- ESPECIALLY for $30.
> 
> They are very small and light, and do not stick out of my ears.  They do not seat as well for me as the Mpow T5, Panfrey's, or the Ofusho F16's, but after a walk and a jog up some stairs I can tell you they aren't going anywhere.  The case is one of the smallest I've come across.
> 
> ...



Awesome. I’ve got a pair coming too.


----------



## gibletzor

LordToneeus said:


> I've had them for about an hour now, and I would definitely classify these as a "solid buy"- ESPECIALLY for $30.
> 
> They are very small and light, and do not stick out of my ears.  They do not seat as well for me as the Mpow T5, Panfrey's, or the Ofusho F16's, but after a walk and a jog up some stairs I can tell you they aren't going anywhere.  The case is one of the smallest I've come across.
> 
> ...


Ugh....  I don't need another set...  I don't need another set... *clicks place order*


----------



## d3myz

Bartig said:


> Got the Edifier TWS1. Very comfortable to my ears, touch controls are so-so and control scheme is a bit weird, haven't noticed Bluetooth issues yet, sound is smooth yet a bit dark.
> 
> Also, git this package delivered from Creative. Sweet.


Anyone reviewed the Edifier TWS5? It looks like the housing is larger and the price is $30 more.


----------



## d3myz (Sep 18, 2019)

mattedialdoc said:


> Awesome. I’ve got a pair coming too.


Where did you find them for $30? i'm in the U.S. and on amazon they are $50

Edit: I found the promo code, thanks all, I pulled the trigger.


----------



## d3myz

So I joined that FB group for amazon testers that @actorlife  recommended. I have 3 pair of TWS' coming my way to review, The first looks promising, but the other 2 are identical and I probably won't hang on to them.

Otium ipx7
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07S5JVP78/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o02_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Veatool

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07WMN5K37/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o07_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Lystar

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07WSN8LGH/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o06_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1


I also noticed that all my FaceBook ads now electronic products for testing, so I got this power bank coming and a Qi Car Mount. pretty cool if you ask me.


----------



## hifi80sman

d3myz said:


> So I joined that FB group for amazon testers that @actorlife  recommended. I have 3 pair of TWS' coming my way to review, The first looks promising, but the other 2 are identical and I probably won't hang on to them.
> 
> Otium ipx7
> https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07S5JVP78/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o02_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
> ...


I had the Otium, but ended up returning it because there was a speaker imbalance.  Not necessarily volume, but frequency response - no bass on left side and bright, deep bass on the right side and warm.  I'm sure there are some decent builds out there, but they're also SBC only, so a big "meh" given the price and what else is available for the same cost.


----------



## hifi80sman

LordToneeus said:


> I've had them for about an hour now, and I would definitely classify these as a "solid buy"- ESPECIALLY for $30.
> 
> They are very small and light, and do not stick out of my ears.  They do not seat as well for me as the Mpow T5, Panfrey's, or the Ofusho F16's, but after a walk and a jog up some stairs I can tell you they aren't going anywhere.  The case is one of the smallest I've come across.
> 
> ...


Nice!  I may grab them now as well.  I just got another pair (see a few posts above) because I like having a case that I can charge my phone in when I'm on the go (gym, etc.).  It's also good for days at the beach, pool, etc. and not having to worry about bringing a separate battery.


----------



## d3myz

hifi80sman said:


> Nice!  I may grab them now as well.  I just got another pair (see a few posts above) because I like having a case that I can charge my phone in when I'm on the go (gym, etc.).  It's also good for days at the beach, pool, etc. and not having to worry about bringing a separate battery.


Did you ever pick up the OFUSHO F16's? they are a hell of a deal for the $$ and they have a 2200 mah battery case, which is surprisingly compact. Oh and they were free after I e-mailed OFUSHO and showed them my purchase order from amazon and my review.


----------



## aPot

I seem to be buying quite a few TWS headphones just to test them, so I thought I'd give my thoughts on the ones I have on me right now: Alterola IE600 ( https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07MYZK9NT/ ), Tozo T10 ( https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07J2Z5DBM/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1 ), Veatool J29 ( https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07WMN5K37/ ),  Generic T1 ( https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33024416683.html ), and Generic A6S ( https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000061009694.html ). This is my first time attempting to review headphones so it'll probably be a bit less informative than the usual, but I'll do my best. For reference I'm rating sound quality and connectivity based on connecting to my Essential Phone playing this playlist ( https://open.spotify.com/playlist/37i9dQZF1DWZtZ8vUCzche ) through Spotify.

Here's a gallery with case pictures and fit pictures too: https://imgur.com/a/QevgTyx

Sound Quality: Altereola IE600 > Generic T1 > Generic A6S > Veatool J29 > Tozo T10

The Altereola IE600 are very clear and the only nitpick I have is the mids seem to be a bit muted in favor of a higher bass. Excellent sound quality on these. These are better at passive noise cancelling than the Generic T1 but because of the small pill design it's can't compete with the T10 or the J29.
The Tozo T10 unfortunately have a static buzz going on while there isn't much going on. Beyond that though I'd say the sound is similar to the IE600 but with more powerful bass and the mids aren't very muted, but the highs seem to be a bit. I personally enjoy the higher bass when I'm working out, but it's a tad much for listening with nothing going on. These have the best passive noise cancelling out of the five.
The Veatool J29 also has a static buzz going on like the Tozo T10. The sound is quite balanced though and maybe even a bit lighter on bass which isn't necessarily a bad thing. The passive noise canceling is just a bit weaker than the Tozo's.
The Generic T1s are quite clear and make me doubt my hearing with a possibly real faint static buzz when the audio isn't doing much. These earbuds sound similar to the IE600 but with less bass. The passive noise cancelling is pretty weak with these pills.
The Generic A6S honestly blow me away with their price/performance. I don't hear any static while music is playing. They are quieter than the other buds while at the same volume level, but that's fixed by just increasing the volume. The mids seem to be a bit quiter with the bass being louder, but that seems to be standard fair. Passive noise cancelling is actually pretty good for whatever reason on these.
Honestly all of these buds sound good to me and as my use case is usually riding my bike the static at low volume doesn't bother me.

Comfort: Veatool J29 > Tozo T10 > Altereola IE600 > Generic A6S > Generic T1
The Altereola IE600 seems to have the problem that other smaller pill tws have where they push against my tragus and start hurting after extended periods of time. Maybe I'm putting them on wrong, but it seems to happen no matter how I rotate them. The tips themselves are very comfortable and create a nice seal though, there's a good selection of 4 tips you can use too. The buttons are easy enough to press but still depress my ear and make it a bit uncomfortable.
The Tozo T10 seem to fit my ear perfectly with the default tip it came with. If they don't fit you then there are 3 different tips it comes with as well. I don't like the feeling of the tips in my ear as well as the Altereola but overall comfort I'd say is better with these on. To press the buttons on this you sadly have to hold the earbud in place and then press it or else it'll be a futile and uncomfortable endeavor. Oh also this has no volume control!
The Veatool J29 also fit my ear perfectly with the default tip size. It only comes with two extra tips so that's kind of meh. The tips also don't feel as good as the Altereola's, however I have to say these are the best in overall comfort for me. The buttons can also be depressed very easily without forcing the bud to go into your ear.
The Generic T1s have a nice fit with the default tip size. It comes with two extra tips with one being the same size as the default ones which is kind of lame. I have the same problem with these as the Altereola where they press against my tragus making them uncomfortable, and the tips aren't anything special themselves. The buttons are almost exactly the same as the Altereola's buttons in how easy they are to press and in fact the controls are the same.
The Generic A6S presses against my tragus as well but to a much lesser extent than the T1. I think beyond that they are quite comfortable the default tips and it even came with two extra tips. 

Charging Case: Generic A6S > Altereola IE600 > Veatool J29 > Tozo T10 > Generic T1
The Altereola IE600 has a small case that I really like the size of and a solid magnetic locking mechanism. However, I'm disappointed that there's no way to see the current charge status of the case, there is a red led that lights up when charging though.
The Tozo T10 has the largest case out of the five and in my eyes is too bulky for carrying around in your pocket. However, it has 4 blue leds to indicate charging which you can see through the semi-transparent case top and the case itself seems to be IPX8 rated which unfortunately mandates a cover over the charging port which is hard to remove. The magnetic locking mechanism feels tighter than the Altereola's.
The Veatool J29 has a similar case to the Tozo T10 but it's a smaller and more acceptable size. Sadly, the locking mechanism for the top is not magnetic and just inserting plastic hooks into holes. The earbud charging location is also unreliable for putting in the buds correctly the first time. However, the case gives you a percent for how much charge it has which is nice.
The Generic T1 has the worst case out of the five. It's smaller than the Veatool J29 but has basically no features. The locking mechanism is a weak magnetic lock, the indicator for charging is on the side and super weak so you have to lift it up to see it. You need to place the earbuds in a few times to actually get them charging.
The Generic A6S has a pretty good case that's close to the Altereola's in size. The magnetic locking system is snappy and the earbuds go right into place and start charging. There is also blue leds to indicate charge status of the case.

Connectivity: Tozo 10 = Generic T1 = Generic A6s > Altereola IE600 > Veatool J29
The Altereola IE600 connects to my phone through AAC. I've only had one connectivity hiccup so far that was just a short cutting out for half a second while biking, so I'd say connectivity is good.
The Tozo T10 doesn't seem to connect through any special codec. I haven't had any connectivity hiccups though so it's all good.
The Veatool J29 connects to my phone through AAC. I've only had two connectivity hiccups so far while covering my ears with my hands and the other while moving around a bit. I'm tempted to say the connectivity might be unreliable, but I'll see in the future. Update: just had a hiccup while sitting here writing this, not a good look.
The Generic T1 doesn't seem to connect to the phone through any special codec. I haven't had any connectivity hiccups though so it's all good.
The Generic A6S doesn't seem to connect to the phone through any special codec. I haven't had any connectivity hiccups though so it's all good.


----------



## hifi80sman

So...Firmware 1.27 is out for the MTW.  Hopefully, they corrected the battery drain issue!!!


----------



## JimmyR

DDDYKI said:


> This is why I can't understand why I still see people recommending the Momentums. As if connectivity and battery issues can be ignored, especially at that price point!
> 
> Yup, I'll be getting mine tomorrow. Figured $30 was acceptable to take a chance.



Really intrigued to hear your opinions on the EW1 and if they live up to the audiophile-ish FiiO promise they advertised in the product brochure...
Those look really tempting, I have to say


----------



## hifi80sman

Looks like an "upgraded" UFO Anbes 359 variant from "G-WACK", hommie.  Touch controls, but MicroUSB vs. USB-C.  Probably still fits in the Anbes 359 case though.  Anyone wanna try?  
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07WCFQKZX/


----------



## gibletzor

aPot said:


> I seem to be buying quite a few TWS headphones just to test them, so I thought I'd give my thoughts on the ones I have on me right now: Alterola IE600 ( https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07MYZK9NT/ ), Tozo T10 ( https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07J2Z5DBM/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1 ), Veatool J29 ( https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07WMN5K37/ ),  Generic T1 ( https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33024416683.html ), and Generic A6S ( https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000061009694.html ). This is my first time attempting to review headphones so it'll probably be a bit less informative than the usual, but I'll do my best. For reference I'm rating sound quality and connectivity based on connecting to my Essential Phone playing this playlist ( https://open.spotify.com/playlist/37i9dQZF1DWZtZ8vUCzche ) through Spotify.
> 
> Here's a gallery with case pictures and fit pictures too: https://imgur.com/a/QevgTyx
> 
> ...


The Alterola IE600s are a pretty great sounding set of headphones.  I agree the fit can be kinda weird though.  It takes a bit for me to find that sweet spot


----------



## gibletzor

hifi80sman said:


> Looks like an "upgraded" UFO Anbes 359 variant from "G-WACK", hommie.  Touch controls, but MicroUSB vs. USB-C.  Probably still fits in the Anbes 359 case though.  Anyone wanna try?
> https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07WCFQKZX/


Left ear only mono mode kinda kills it for me.    I like to be able to use either ear if I'm only using one.


----------



## vstolpner

d3myz said:


> So I joined that FB group for amazon testers that @actorlife  recommended. I have 3 pair of TWS' coming my way to review, The first looks promising, but the other 2 are identical and I probably won't hang on to them.
> 
> Otium ipx7
> https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07S5JVP78/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o02_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
> ...




Where did you get the testing sample unit for the power back and Qi charger?


----------



## chinmie

so I've just bought this, for research purposes... (and because of TWS addiction ￼￼)

build quality is good and the plastic is not "plasticky" cheap. using it with my note 8, it will automatically install the app..nice

ambient mode works. i haven't test it intensively, but the ambient volume is goos and not too hissy like the Jabra 65t. 

the touch sensors work nicely. i like it that it won't register button touches when i remove it from my ears, so no accidental press would happen. 
sound prompt when changing volume, etc, sounds nice and soft. wireless charging is also dope. 

i quite like the sound.. it's clear sounding and definitely on the bright side, although it still have ample amount of bass if it wants to, but the mids are tuned lean with bump on the mid treble, similar to harman tuning. i set it to dynamic eq or off..that's the settings that i prefer. although the other EQ is quite usable. the sound reminds me of the Mavin, but i will make sure and do a comparison later with my friend's unit

other thing is, the stock eartips are unusable for my ears.. won't make seal at all even on the largest size, especially on my right ear..so i use some short wide bore eartips i have, and it fits nicely.

so as far as bright and clear sounding goes, does it sounds better than my go-to Tin T2 Pro+BT20S combo? well... no....of course not. 
The G Buds sounds compressed in direct comparison.. but it's close enough and in a smaller size that it got me thinking of whether i should keep it. 
I'll play around with it for more before i decide (haven't test it to the Nillkin and the others yet), but overall this is Galaxy Buds is a really good TWS


----------



## bedlamite (Sep 19, 2019)

The TRN BT20/20s + whatever IEM is an unbeatable combo imo. The TRNs are super versatile and there's no charging case to worry about since the batteries are built in. What I've hated about the TW category is that there's almost ALWAYS a charging case. Hate the bulk.


----------



## Luchyres

bedlamite said:


> The TRN BT20/20s + whatever IEM is an unbeatable combo imo. The TRNs are super versatile and there's no charging case to worry about since the batteries are built in. What I've hated about the TW category is that there's almost ALWAYS a charging case. Hate the bulk.



How do you feel about the bt20s mic for call quality and do you ever store them in your pocket? If so, how? (Small case, throw 'em in naked?)


----------



## Trebor1966

@chinmie: please can you compare soundwise Nillkin Go and QCY T1C - resolution and frequency THANKS


----------



## charleski

bedlamite said:


> The TRN BT20/20s + whatever IEM is an unbeatable combo imo.


I must admit I've been tempted by them myself. My problem is vanity, since I don't want people to think I'm walking around wearing hearing aids.


----------



## vstolpner

charleski said:


> I must admit I've been tempted by them myself. My problem is vanity, since I don't want people to think I'm walking around wearing hearing aids.



I promise you that you won't look like you're wearing hearing aids - you can even make sure of that by selecting a flashy set of IEMs. Also, when someone says something to you and you completely ignore them, they'll figure out what you're wearing doesn't help you hear but actually makes it more difficult :-D


----------



## chinmie

Trebor1966 said:


> @chinmie: please can you compare soundwise Nillkin Go and QCY T1C - resolution and frequency THANKS



sure do, I'll post it up later after i compare them



charleski said:


> I must admit I've been tempted by them myself. My problem is vanity, since I don't want people to think I'm walking around wearing hearing aids.



my teenage son thinks using the BT20 combos looks better and cooler (in his words:less dorky) than using a TWS.. except the Nillkin and the Sabbat,which are more flush to the ears. he said it looks more like wearing a regular IEM.

i still think i look cool both ways.. but kids nowadays with their opinions... ooh well..


----------



## bedlamite (Sep 19, 2019)

Luchyres said:


> How do you feel about the bt20s mic for call quality and do you ever store them in your pocket? If so, how? (Small case, throw 'em in naked?)


I've not used the BT20 for calls yet tbh, somebody else will have to chime in with that.

Most of the time I just leave them in my ears. They go into my pants pocket with no case, when need be. the BTs are rounded with no sharp edges so I don't worry about them scratching anything. If you have IEMs that have sharp edges you might not want to do this, but I'll leave that up to you. I've hooked up a bunch of KZ and CCA IEMs, and an iBasso IT03. No heavy scuffing seen.



charleski said:


> I must admit I've been tempted by them myself. My problem is vanity, since I don't want people to think I'm walking around wearing hearing aids.


Hahaha you mean the battery compartment behind your ear. tbh I don't care about that, if it deters strangers from coming up to me I'm more than fine with that lol!


----------



## bedlamite (Sep 19, 2019)

double posted oops


----------



## assassin10000 (Sep 19, 2019)

Luchyres said:


> How do you feel about the bt20s mic for call quality and do you ever store them in your pocket? If so, how? (Small case, throw 'em in naked?)



I use a case, either a small square carbon fiber pattern case or a small oval case.

The square case is thinner (about 25mm) vs the oval (about 30-32mm).


----------



## Robius (Sep 19, 2019)

My Rondaful B6 just arrived. I really liked the spacious sound, it's miles better than QCY QS1.

Ps. Thanks to the guy who linked them while they were cheap, sorry I couldn't find your nickname.


----------



## tlau1125 (Sep 19, 2019)

tlau1125 said:


> I've been messaging via AliExpress with the Edifier Office Store that sold me the Edifier TWS1.  The rep suggested a few things, like re-pairing and charging.  None of those helped.  Now it is clear that the reception on the left earpiece is significantly weaker than the right earpiece.  I believe the left earpiece is defective.
> 
> They sound great and are useable in ideal situations (device close by with no obstructions) but can breakup from time to time even with my phone in the front left jean pocket.  Exchange/return would cost money (likely need to pay to ship back to the store).  The store may offer partial refund but then I'll be left with another set of partially working TWS (My QCY T1C has a broken microphone).
> 
> Why can't I just have a properly working pair of TWS?


Update: I have further discussions with the Edifier Store rep and the store suggested I either return the whole package in exchange for a new set (I need to pay for shipment I guess), or the store can send me a new left earpiece.  I opt for the latter.  Hopefully the new one will perform better.

BTW, the process is a bit convoluted ... the rep asked me to put in another order but do not pay immediately.  I could not figure out how to do it on the AliExpress website.  I then decided to try it in the AliExpress app and was finally able to do so.  The rep updated the cost to $0.01 before I paid for the order.  I guess they just need an order to track this special shipment.

Fingers crossed


----------



## chinmie

a


Robius said:


> My Rondaful B6 just arrived. I really liked the spacious sound, it's miles better than QCY QS1.
> 
> Ps. Thanks to the guy who linked them while they were cheap, sorry I couldn't find your nickname.



is there any volume control on the B6?


----------



## Robius

chinmie said:


> a
> 
> 
> is there any volume control on the B6?


Yes, long touch (2 seconds) to left side increases volume and right side decreases. Touch control works really good.


----------



## gazzington

So what's a good iem pairing with those trn's?


----------



## Caipirina

bedlamite said:


> The TRN BT20/20s + whatever IEM is an unbeatable combo imo. The TRNs are super versatile and there's no charging case to worry about since the batteries are built in. What I've hated about the TW category is that there's almost ALWAYS a charging case. Hate the bulk.



Very much agree. Upon discovering those BT20 and this rediscovering my collection of IEMs ... that very much brought me back to caring waaaayyyy too much about chi-fi I all its flavors. 

Apparently TWS are not my only ‘problem’ 


 

But you must be the first person I come across who is ‘bothered’ by charging cases  I know that some here are trying to build their own cases for the BT20


----------



## Caipirina

gazzington said:


> So what's a good iem pairing with those trn's?



I found that fit is better with longer nozzle IEMs in my case. The KZ ZS10 pro work very well and are a joy to listen to. Do NOT go for the trn v80, even though they look like made for each other. Terrible hiss!!! If possible, try fit and noise floor first.


----------



## Caipirina

Anyone know / have link for Sabbat X12 (earbud style) rubber wings?  The models I have did not come with any, and rubber wings for earbuds I have are made for airpod style TWS ... there is a bit of a problem getting a proper fit at the back part of the X12's earbud. There's very little space for extra rubber ...   anyone?


----------



## bedlamite

Caipirina said:


> But you must be the first person I come across who is ‘bothered’ by charging cases  I know that some here are trying to build their own cases for the BT20


As my daily commute is short (barely 20 minutes), I travel light. I don't carry a backpack into work so I've nowhere to stash a TW carrying case. Most of my daily driver TWs can either be hooked onto my belt (e.g the Beoplay E8 has a loop on its case) or I just go ultralight with the TRNs.


----------



## chinmie

gazzington said:


> So what's a good iem pairing with those trn's?



whatever you have, really.. the BT20s doesn't mess with the base sound of the earphones too much. the higher impedance or lower sensitivity the IEMs have is better to reduce floor noise


----------



## carloshacecosas

How easy are the TRN BT20/20S to pair? I'm currently using the Sabbat X12 and they're a pain in the ass to pair every time I switch from my phone to the computer.


----------



## Caipirina

carloshacecosas said:


> How easy are the TRN BT20/20S to pair? I'm currently using the Sabbat X12 and they're a pain in the ass to pair every time I switch from my phone to the computer.



I my personal experience, this was rather finicky ... to the point that I am not willing to try my luck again and un-pair and re-pair    But others might have had better luck


----------



## acygni

Fiio has this coming up:


----------



## clerkpalmer

acygni said:


> Fiio has this coming up:


Well that looks like a total rebrand of the trn.  Probably same internals?  Give me ldac!


----------



## acygni

clerkpalmer said:


> Well that looks like a total rebrand of the trn.  Probably same internals?  Give me ldac!


It could be. But Fiio is a way more competent company and their version already looks better built with aluminum buttons I think.


----------



## CrusaderIce

FYI, I’ve been looking into the ofusho f16 because of you guys and I asked them on amazon if they had any promo codes at the moment and they said they’ll be having a promotion from 8-2pst today. On a side note, I really should be focusing on my wedding planning over browsing these forums all day...


----------



## CrusaderIce

Oh also,

https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/ava-truly-wire-free-earbuds-music-without-limits#/

Does this look too good to be true to you guys? Apt x hd, qc5120, and a free 10,000 mah portable wireless charger under $50.


----------



## aPot

CrusaderIce said:


> FYI, I’ve been looking into the ofusho f16 because of you guys and I asked them on amazon if they had any promo codes at the moment and they said they’ll be having a promotion from 8-2pst today. On a side note, I really should be focusing on my wedding planning over browsing these forums all day...


Thanks for the heads up, I've been looking to try these at around $30 because of all the gushing reviews from here. However, last time I tried to get in on the lightning deal they were all claimed with 3 hours left to go. This time I'll be ready.



CrusaderIce said:


> Oh also,
> 
> https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/ava-truly-wire-free-earbuds-music-without-limits#/
> 
> Does this look too good to be true to you guys? Apt x hd, qc5120, and a free 10,000 mah portable wireless charger under $50.


Considering these guys have no other projects and Aptx HD doesn't seem to be a thing for TWS yet I'm skeptical.


----------



## Hisma

acygni said:


> Fiio has this coming up:


nice.  Some people seem to be happy w/ the BT20S but not me.  cheap build quality/high noise floor/finnicky pairing.  Even if using the same internals my hope is fiio can address still address the quality issues over the BT20S.


----------



## mikp

CrusaderIce said:


> Oh also,
> 
> https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/ava-truly-wire-free-earbuds-music-without-limits#/
> 
> Does this look too good to be true to you guys? Apt x hd, qc5120, and a free 10,000 mah portable wireless charger under $50.



Indiegogo + $1,501  Flexible Goal , what could go wrong ?

When kickstarter does not give you enough risk, why not try Indiegogo


----------



## DDDYKI

JimmyR said:


> Really intrigued to hear your opinions on the EW1 and if they live up to the audiophile-ish FiiO promise they advertised in the product brochure...
> Those look really tempting, I have to say


Been using them for the past few hours today.I don't have much of a frame of reference against other TWS models, since I've only used the Creative Outlier. I'm having trouble fitting the right ear properly so it's hard to judge the sound confidently. There's not much bass. Moving the buds around in my ear to see if it was due to the seal didn't really improve it, so EQ may be necessary if you like bass. UAPP doesn't have any presets so I'll have to research and set something up. 

Connectivity-wise, I'm pleased to say they work much better than the Outliers. I did get the occasional stutter at my local train station, then some more widespread stutters moving around the main train station. But ZERO DROPS on my walk from Penn Station to my office. Before I left my train, I did switch the master bud to the left, since my jacket's chest pocket is on the left. I don't know if that's the reason I had no issue with connectivity, but it's a good sign. 

I still have to get used to the tap controls. I have the box and manual with me today so I'll be trying that out later.


----------



## webvan

Caipirina said:


> Anyone know / have link for Sabbat X12 (earbud style) rubber wings?  The models I have did not come with any, and rubber wings for earbuds I have are made for airpod style TWS ... there is a bit of a problem getting a proper fit at the back part of the X12's earbud. There's very little space for extra rubber ...   anyone?



I looked at those that came with mine and...they don't look like much, very soft so I'm not sure what kind of addition support they would give. Have you tried putting some small foams on yours ? Works great for me for added stability/comfort/bass and a 4mm wholepunch took car of the driver opening to maintain clarity. Besides the wings won't fit in the case if memory serves...

I finally broke down and picked up an Anbes 359 "clone", the "Letscom" version, hope they're the real deal ! I hope to use them while bike riding (off-road) to minimize wind noise as I find it annoying with the Havit G1 I've been using, besides the Havits have poor SQ I'm finding compared to my latest crop of TWSs.


----------



## Caipirina

webvan said:


> I looked at those that came with mine and...they don't look like much, very soft so I'm not sure what kind of addition support they would give. Have you tried putting some small foams on yours ? Works great for me for added stability/comfort/bass and a 4mm wholepunch took car of the driver opening to maintain clarity. Besides the wings won't fit in the case if memory serves...



Ok, tried the foam idea, which is pretty brilliant. Have not cut out a hole yet ... but, they also won't fit back in the case with foam on 


 

But I also have those other shaped rubber thingies ... maybe time to take some fine nail scissors and try to make them fit  

 

Because, they are much easier to put on / off than the foams


----------



## mattedialdoc

CrusaderIce said:


> FYI, I’ve been looking into the ofusho f16 because of you guys and I asked them on amazon if they had any promo codes at the moment and they said they’ll be having a promotion from 8-2pst today. On a side note, I really should be focusing on my wedding planning over browsing these forums all day...



Grabbed a pair!!! Thanks for the headsup


----------



## webvan

Caipirina said:


> Ok, tried the foam idea, which is pretty brilliant. Have not cut out a hole yet ... but, they also won't fit back in the case with foam on
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That's odd mine fit back fine in the case, might be slimmer foam, it's just some random ones I got on AliExpress. I'd also tried some modded Airpod sleeves but they don't really help with stability and kill the bass you have without them.


----------



## Caipirina

webvan said:


> That's odd mine fit back fine in the case, might be slimmer foam, it's just some random ones I got on AliExpress. I'd also tried some modded Airpod sleeves but they don't really help with stability and kill the bass you have without them.



Thanks to your motivational words I tried again ... and with a bit of squeezing, yep, they fit back in and I see through the holes in the lid that they are also charging ... tomorrow I get out the hole-punch  

Much appreciated, they sure feel more secure now! 

Still amazed .. the ones I have I bought in summer '18 under the Lezii brand name and I just confirmed that back then they were 'only' BT 4.2 ... but they perform still very nicely! 

Now I feel I should try some other earbud style TWS .. maybe these???


----------



## webvan

Sure ! Actually mine are the Lezii too that I got in December. I really ought to pick up another pair as I can't see how they could be improved on for running.
Those you linked look nice, not sure if the different design would have an impact.


----------



## rhsauer

chinmie said:


> so I've just bought this, for research purposes... (and because of TWS addiction ￼￼)
> 
> build quality is good and the plastic is not "plasticky" cheap. using it with my note 8, it will automatically install the app..nice
> 
> ...



One of the nice things about the Galaxy Buds (and the Sony MX3, the AirPods and the Powerbeats Pro) is that they allow on-the-fly switching between sources.  So you can be listening to music on your phone, for example, and attach to your computer (or any other device to which they have already been paired) without first disconnecting from your phone.  (That is, they disconnect automatically.)  This is, in my view, a really underrated feature.


----------



## hifi80sman

rhsauer said:


> One of the nice things about the Galaxy Buds (and the Sony MX3, the AirPods and the Powerbeats Pro) is that they allow on-the-fly switching between sources.  So you can be listening to music on your phone, for example, and attach to your computer (or any other device to which they have already been paired) without first disconnecting from your phone.  (That is, they disconnect automatically.)  This is, in my view, a really underrated feature.


Definitely a good feature.  I also discovered the MW07 has multipoint, so I can connect to my Galaxy and iPhone simultaneously.  Listen to Galaxy, get calls on the iPhone (and vice versa).


----------



## d3myz

hifi80sman said:


> Looks like an "upgraded" UFO Anbes 359 variant from "G-WACK", hommie.  Touch controls, but MicroUSB vs. USB-C.  Probably still fits in the Anbes 359 case though.  Anyone wanna try?
> https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07WCFQKZX/


Those look pretty cool. 
I got these to review some some company on amazon. They look similar in build. i'll know next week how they sound.


----------



## d3myz

Just saw the OFUSHO F16 is on amazon for $29.99. nice deal and you can e-mail them after you review them on amazon and the them for free, win/win.


----------



## d3myz

acygni said:


> Fiio has this coming up:


I hope it goes to launch, I waited a year for their last BT 4.2 cable and it never saw the light of day.


----------



## d3myz

CrusaderIce said:


> FYI, I’ve been looking into the ofusho f16 because of you guys and I asked them on amazon if they had any promo codes at the moment and they said they’ll be having a promotion from 8-2pst today. On a side note, I really should be focusing on my wedding planning over browsing these forums all day...


$29.99 now. https://www.amazon.com/Bluetooth-Ea...&qid=1568910544&s=gateway&smid=A2SX34U2OADLB9


----------



## clerkpalmer

d3myz said:


> $29.99 now. https://www.amazon.com/Bluetooth-Ea...&qid=1568910544&s=gateway&smid=A2SX34U2OADLB9


Do these bring anything to the table over the tranya b530 or mpow t5?


----------



## Darkestred

d3myz said:


> Just saw the OFUSHO F16 is on amazon for $29.99. nice deal and you can e-mail them after you review them on amazon and the them for free, win/win.


Figures.  I wanted this deal and the review when buying them two weeks ago.

Oh well.


----------



## d3myz (Sep 19, 2019)

Darkestred said:


> Figures.  I wanted this deal and the review when buying them two weeks ago.
> 
> Oh well.


Hit them up.   Ofusho@yeah.net   They ask for a 5 star review, but i gave them a 4.5/5 in mine and honestly for a $30-35 pair of TWS they are pretty phenomenal.


----------



## d3myz

clerkpalmer said:


> Do these bring anything to the table over the tranya b530 or mpow t5?


They have a lot more midbass they both. I'd say they are a little wider in the sound stage than the b530, but have less sparkle. they have a much better battery life then both as well. i think mine will go 8-9 hours. I wasn't a fan at first, because they are big, but they are just a really solid performer.


----------



## d3myz

These looks really cool!
*KANOE True Wireless Earbuds, TWS Headphones Bluetooth 5.0 Qualcomm APTX Sound with Deep Bass, 30H Playtime, cVc8.0 Noise Cancelling Call, Sports Earphones with Rotate Aluminum Charging Case*
QCC3020 chipset, Anbes 359 Alien form factor. IPX5


----------



## Caipirina

webvan said:


> Sure ! Actually mine are the Lezii too that I got in December. I really ought to pick up another pair as I can't see how they could be improved on for running.
> Those you linked look nice, not sure if the different design would have an impact.


This is another earbud style I keep an eye on (waiting for reviews) . Allegedly 13mm ‘moving coil’ (driver?  ) , but I wonder if that outside part might drag everything down. Balance wise ...


----------



## Caipirina

d3myz said:


> These looks really cool!
> *KANOE True Wireless Earbuds, TWS Headphones Bluetooth 5.0 Qualcomm APTX Sound with Deep Bass, 30H Playtime, cVc8.0 Noise Cancelling Call, Sports Earphones with Rotate Aluminum Charging Case*
> QCC3020 chipset, Anbes 359 Alien form factor. IPX5



Aren’t these the same that VTman posted a few pages ago? Same tear drop bud design as the Anbes 359 ... but yeah! aptX !!! (Which I never really use but I know for some it is a big deal)


----------



## d3myz

Caipirina said:


> Aren’t these the same that VTman posted a few pages ago? Same tear drop bud design as the Anbes 359 ... but yeah! aptX !!! (Which I never really use but I know for some it is a big deal)


They may be, I've been struggling to keep up with the thread this week.  I have been reaching out to all these companies via FB for demo's and i've got 6 pair of TWS' coming, i'm hoping that at least 1-2 pair aren't garbage. Unfortunately the Kanoe's are not one of them but yea, this is the first of it's form factor i've seen with a Qualcomm chip in it.


----------



## mattedialdoc

d3myz said:


> They have a lot more midbass they both. I'd say they are a little wider in the sound stage than the b530, but have less sparkle. they have a much better battery life then both as well. i think mine will go 8-9 hours. I wasn't a fan at first, because they are big, but they are just a really solid performer.



I have the ofusho f16 coming and will day a comparison too. I like the b530 so far.
I have a pair of MPOW M5 sitting here in front of me. I’ve read the rabid praise...but I’m not feeling it. The sound is fine. But I don’t like the fit...the way they poke straight out...and the push buttons are super annoying. I guess I’m just a touch sensitive control guy. 

I also grabbed a pair of the WaveFun to try...which turns out is the same as the Panfrey. I just can’t get past the crappy Bluetooth connection. On both the WaveFun and the Panfrey variant the BT connection is very unstable and poor....I couldn’t walk around a corner from my source without loss, while with the b530 or MPOW I could go upstairs wo loss.


----------



## webvan

Caipirina said:


> This is another earbud style I keep an eye on (waiting for reviews) . Allegedly 13mm ‘moving coil’ (driver?  ) , but I wonder if that outside part might drag everything down. Balance wise ...


Bonola seem to be big fans of the "sticking out a mile" design


----------



## Darkestred

@d3myz ya know what.  I'm going to do it! Thank you.


----------



## gazzington

What's a good set with bass but not to the detriment of mids and highs?


----------



## vstolpner

gazzington said:


> What's a good set with bass but not to the detriment of mids and highs?



Tranya T3 or B530, or Mpow T5 if you like more sparkly highs and a little less bass.

If you want full on basshead, then Tiso i4


----------



## Caipirina

d3myz said:


> They may be, I've been struggling to keep up with the thread this week.  I have been reaching out to all these companies via FB for demo's and i've got 6 pair of TWS' coming, i'm hoping that at least 1-2 pair aren't garbage. Unfortunately the Kanoe's are not one of them but yea, this is the first of it's form factor i've seen with a Qualcomm chip in it.


Stalk them on FB and get stuff for free? Why did I not think of that???  brilliant!


----------



## JOSELICHI

First review I saw about Shanling MTW100

https://hifitrends.com/2019/09/18/s...ds-review-good-things-come-in-small-packages/


----------



## Bartig

Robius said:


> My Rondaful B6 just arrived. I really liked the spacious sound, it's miles better than QCY QS1.
> 
> Ps. Thanks to the guy who linked them while they were cheap, sorry I couldn't find your nickname.


Ah, that one's also sold as the Whizzer B6, which I just ordered for a whopping 70 dollar. Hope it's worth its price.



mattedialdoc said:


> I have the ofusho f16 coming and will day a comparison too. I like the b530 so far.
> I have a pair of MPOW M5 sitting here in front of me. I’ve read the rabid praise...but I’m not feeling it. The sound is fine. But I don’t like the fit...the way they poke straight out...and the push buttons are super annoying. I guess I’m just a touch sensitive control guy.
> 
> I also grabbed a pair of the WaveFun to try...which turns out is the same as the Panfrey. I just can’t get past the crappy Bluetooth connection. On both the WaveFun and the Panfrey variant the BT connection is very unstable and poor....I couldn’t walk around a corner from my source without loss, while with the b530 or MPOW I could go upstairs wo loss.


Are you connected to the right earbud on the Wavefun? For me, that really helped me get rid of the problems. Also, as strange as it sounds, charging everything completely before listening seemed to improve things on another set that had connection problems in the beginning.



JOSELICHI said:


> First review I saw about Shanling MTW100
> 
> https://hifitrends.com/2019/09/18/s...ds-review-good-things-come-in-small-packages/


Nice!


----------



## sanity8me

Damn, missed out on the OFUSHO F16 flash sale.

How do they compare to Tranya T3 and Mifo O5, especially with SQ and comfort?


----------



## hifi80sman

JOSELICHI said:


> First review I saw about Shanling MTW100
> 
> https://hifitrends.com/2019/09/18/s...ds-review-good-things-come-in-small-packages/


Me want.


----------



## hifi80sman

sanity8me said:


> Damn, missed out on the OFUSHO F16 flash sale.
> 
> How do they compare to Tranya T3 and Mifo O5, especially with SQ and comfort?


Here's another at the $30 range (paid $32) that I ordered today with a $10 coupon and a 15% off promo code (15NHPFQW).  Doesn't look like the coupon is there anymore, but I wonder if the promo code still works.  USB-C, AAC.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07T7J55YX/


----------



## Caipirina

webvan said:


> Bonola seem to be big fans of the "sticking out a mile" design


This is possibly the only way to get a 13mm driver properly done. I think over at the Shanling TWS thread they explained that the bigger the driver, the longer the distance has to be from nozzle...


----------



## Caipirina

hifi80sman said:


> Me want.


Me too! Hoping some B&M in SG will have it in 2 weeks.


----------



## sanity8me

hifi80sman said:


> Here's another at the $30 range (paid $32) that I ordered today with a $10 coupon and a 15% off promo code (15NHPFQW).  Doesn't look like the coupon is there anymore, but I wonder if the promo code still works.  USB-C, AAC.
> https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07T7J55YX/



Thanks, dude! I'll pass until I read something legit on them. 

I'm going to keep checking in here until I finally decide on a first pair of tws. This is by far my favorite thread on headfi at the moment.


----------



## FYLegend

hifi80sman said:


> Looks like an "upgraded" UFO Anbes 359 variant from "G-WACK", hommie.  Touch controls, but MicroUSB vs. USB-C.  Probably still fits in the Anbes 359 case though.  Anyone wanna try?
> https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07WCFQKZX/


I thought the reviews said USB Type C but it turns out they were referring to the older Yineme ST-BE30. However, I'm still wondering if the microUSB label is an error for the new version. The reviews of the newer product seem ambiguous about the cable used with one person calling it a "regular" cable...


Robius said:


> My Rondaful B6 just arrived. I really liked the spacious sound, it's miles better than QCY QS1.
> 
> Ps. Thanks to the guy who linked them while they were cheap, sorry I couldn't find your nickname.


Which link did you get these from? The Whizzer B6 is about 70$USD or 90$CAD on sites like Gearbest and Aliexpress. I'm a bit torn between getting these or Sabbat E12 Ultra.


----------



## chinmie

rhsauer said:


> One of the nice things about the Galaxy Buds (and the Sony MX3, the AirPods and the Powerbeats Pro) is that they allow on-the-fly switching between sources.  So you can be listening to music on your phone, for example, and attach to your computer (or any other device to which they have already been paired) without first disconnecting from your phone.  (That is, they disconnect automatically.)  This is, in my view, a really underrated feature.



that's one process quicker than the Chifi TWSs indeed, but i still miss the Jabra 65T way of multiple connection, which i can play music on my phone, and just switch playing videos on my tablet on the fly. i don't miss the quirky fitting and the sound though. 

@Trebor1966  so I've just compared the Gbuds to the Nillkin Go and QCY T1C, and this is my thoughts on them:

first off the GBuds have a tuning emphasis like the harman curve (even with EQ off) .. it is boosted on the mid treble, making the sound profile detailed, but might sounds unnatural and intense to some people. after playing with it at comparing to my other IEMs, i found the most natural and full sounding mids is in fact the "Bass boost" setting. 

in that bass boost setting, it is somewhat similar tuning to the QCY T1C, but with a lower background noise, making the GBuds sound much cleaner. the T1C is livelier though. the analogy is the T1C sounded more analog while the GBuds sounded pristine digital. 

the better physical solidness and weight of the earpiece also contributes to the higher noise blocking and the cleaner sound of the Gbuds. 

the T1C soundstage is more stretched to the side while the GBuds has better depth information. 

comparison to the Nillkin is a bit harder, because  the nature of the Nillkin is more like open earbuds or open vented IEMs. it's like comparing open back headphones to the closed back one. 

if listening to higher volume, the Nillkin soundstage would blow up, the sound is like around the head, while the GBuds is more focused and clean, but still won't reach the Nillkin staging size. 

can't really use the Nillkin in a very noisy environment though, better use the Gbuds for that

the Gbuds would have a deeper and more impactful subbass (similar to T1C) than the Nillkin. 

so in summary, if you want to upgrade from the T1C, the Gbuds offers cleaner and more focused sound, with usable EQ settings and added functionality. but the Nillkin is different from the Gbuds that they could fill each other's shoes, but not entirely substitute each other.


----------



## D3soLaT3

Anyone heard of or tried the GoNovate Demi? So many Qcc3020s popping up it is difficult to keep track.


----------



## voicemaster

I got the OFUSHO F16 through amazon flash deal How is it compare to QCY T1?


----------



## hifi80sman

sanity8me said:


> Thanks, dude! I'll pass until I read something legit on them.
> 
> I'm going to keep checking in here until I finally decide on a first pair of tws. This is by far my favorite thread on headfi at the moment.


I don't know what sound signature you prefer, but these things are legit.  https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07T7J55YX/

10mm driver and they sound every bit 10mm.

Tastefully done mids and highs (smooth, inoffensive, and rolled off), but man, that bass, wow, it really kicks.  The best way to describe it is deep, authoritative, and bold.  It's not some messy, flabby, muffled bass.  You can tell the drivers are quality and well matched, both in amplitude and frequency response.  No driver flex.  These give you an overall big, bold sound.  USB C, AAC Codec.

Really enjoying these.  If you like bass, but still appreciate clarity, these are great.  If you like a bright, crispy sound signature, these are not for you.  I'd say the signature is close to Sony's house sound.

Touch controls work well.  I paid $32; they are worth every penny and more.


----------



## Trebor1966

chinmie said:


> that's one process quicker than the Chifi TWSs indeed, but i still miss the Jabra 65T way of multiple connection, which i can play music on my phone, and just switch playing videos on my tablet on the fly. i don't miss the quirky fitting and the sound though.
> 
> @Trebor1966  so I've just compared the Gbuds to the Nillkin Go and QCY T1C, and this is my thoughts on them:
> 
> ...


@chinmie: normally i also use my Nillkin Go with Symbio Peel - but now i changed to JVC spiral dot - more resolution and definition - try it


----------



## d3myz (Sep 20, 2019)

actorlife said:


> So far with movies I love both. Anbes 359 does great with movies too.
> d3myz Maybe I'm getting better audio with the F16 because of the aptx? Any of your stuff have aptx?


Could be, I just got a couple new pair of TWS' i'm reviewing. Because the T5, 359 and F16 have such different sound signatures I'm using them as my references. I've been listening to the Lystar J29 tonight and I'm shocked! They have a wider sound stage than the 359 and the sound great. It may be blasphemous but I think they sound better than the 359 on certain tracks, they have more sparkle, the mids are def. more recessed, but the clarity is excellent and the bass is full but not as prominent as the 359 or the F16. The 359's high mids are def. better. I still think the T5 has better mids and accuracy, but the J29 is a really well balanced TWS', I'm really enjoying it. I'm testing them with my Spiral Dots, the stock tips are garbage. I do hear a crackle when I push the buds in, can't remember the term for this. the volume control is stupid. left bud double click to increase and triple click to increase and get this. The most idiotic feature of all. You can't turn the back on w/o returning them to the case and taking them back out again. The buds don't seat well in the case, you have to fiddle with them to get them in, but other than that the sound is Sooo Good!! and they are $30. Before I forget, these are the EXACT same form factory as the Anbes 360 which I also owned and sent back because they just didn't sound good. I'd be really interested to hear everyone's thoughts on these.


----------



## d3myz

hifi80sman said:


> I don't know what sound signature you prefer, but these things are legit.  https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07T7J55YX/
> 
> 10mm driver and they sound every bit 10mm.
> 
> ...


Looks sweet. Did you use a coupon code? they are $50 with a $10 off promo at amazon us.


----------



## chinmie

Trebor1966 said:


> @chinmie: normally i also use my Nillkin Go with Symbio Peel - but now i changed to JVC spiral dot - more resolution and definition - try it


 Spiral dots usually makes the staging bigger and deeper (more apparent reverbs and delays of the song). but it also usually makes the mids lower in volume. I've tried the spiral dots (the ++ too) on the Nillkin, but settled with the Whirlwind tips because at that time i was listening to vocal music, and i need the mids. but I'll try the JVC again for some electronic music


----------



## hifi80sman

d3myz said:


> Looks sweet. Did you use a coupon code? they are $50 with a $10 off promo at amazon us.


Yep, I had an additional 15% off promo code (15NHPFQW).  Not sure if it still works.


----------



## Firevortex (Sep 20, 2019)

hey guys.  i'm enjoying the sennheiser more than the Sony but the battery life is killing the fun. can some one recommend me a pair of earbuds to pair with a TRN bt20? i'm not particular familiar with the IEM scene. budget will be under $300. Many thanks!


----------



## mattedialdoc

JOSELICHI said:


> First review I saw about Shanling MTW100
> 
> https://hifitrends.com/2019/09/18/s...ds-review-good-things-come-in-small-packages/



These look great. Hopefully on Amazon soon.


----------



## webvan

Same shell as the E12/KZ1 ? Also it seems they are the first ChiFi TWS with an aware mode ?


----------



## HiFlight

Firevortex said:


> hey guys.  i'm enjoying the sennheiser more than the Sony but the battery life is killing the fun. can some one recommend me a pair of earbuds to pair with a TRN bt20? i'm not particular familiar with the IEM scene. budget will be under $300. Many thanks!


I am using the very inexpensive CAA C10 paired with my BT20 and the combo sounds superb despite the pocket change cost.


----------



## d3myz

hifi80sman said:


> Yep, I had an additional 15% off promo code (15NHPFQW).  Not sure if it still works.


Cool, thanks. It still works. Do these have volume control?


----------



## clerkpalmer

Re the Shanling, not sure about amazon.  They referred me to their US distributor a couple of weeks ago but there was some issue between them that wasn't yet resolved.  They said they should be available soon but it's been a week with no response.  Hopefully Shanling can respond here and advise as this looks like a nice product.


----------



## clerkpalmer

Kz zs7, tfz no.3, moondrop kxxs.  All good options.


----------



## charleski

d3myz said:


> I do hear a crackle when I push the buds in, can't remember the term for this.


Driver flex


----------



## hifi80sman

d3myz said:


> Cool, thanks. It still works. Do these have volume control?


Yep.  3x taps on R to increase, 3x taps on L to decrease.


----------



## RobinFood

Just got the Nillkin Go. Initial impressions are great bass, amazingly clear mids, and extended highs with good imaging.

I do have one criticism though. The sound is very W shaped. I feel like they don't sound very congruent. They bother me a little bit right now. It might change with burn in but I am not a fan of this sound. It sounds a little fake.

They remind me of the RY4S UE for the earbud guys. The timber just doesn't sound right.

I plan to bring them to the in-laws this weekend as my only buds. My impressions might change after a thorough listen, but so far they are not anywhere near dethroning the Nuarl buds as my favorite TWS.


----------



## aPot

got the ofusho 16, really not a fan of the touch controls especially in combination with being waterproof because the water will activate the touch controls. At least the waterproofing seems to be real because I got in the shower with them. I'm surprised they're quieter than my other buds, but maybe I need to change tips for a better seal. AptX is always nice though.


----------



## mattedialdoc

aPot said:


> got the ofusho 16, really not a fan of the touch controls especially in combination with being waterproof because the water will activate the touch controls. At least the waterproofing seems to be real because I got in the shower with them. I'm surprised they're quieter than my other buds, but maybe I need to change tips for a better seal. AptX is always nice though.



Better than having to push buttons in your ear....but I get it


----------



## C_Lindbergh (Sep 20, 2019)

JOSELICHI said:


> First review I saw about Shanling MTW100
> 
> https://hifitrends.com/2019/09/18/s...ds-review-good-things-come-in-small-packages/



Seems very good for the price, features like ambient mode, wireless charging and IP rating for that price. Tese are the first budget True Wireless I'd consider buying. The main question is which version you should go for, I guess if you like V-shape you'd pick the Dynamic Driver?

 For the price you can excuse the lack of Aptx, EQ, app settings etc.

Judging from the pictures they don't seem to stick out much from the ear, so looks pretty comfy. 

Also, there's no mention of any volume control? Surely they can't have missed a simple feature like that?


----------



## JOSELICHI

I bought Balanced Armature Driver. Shipped and waiting...

I hope an excel sound from Shanling.

I think there isnt volume control but it is not big problem for me.



C_Lindbergh said:


> Seems very good for the price, features like ambient mode, wireless charging and IP rating for that price. Tese are the first budget True Wireless I'd consider buying. The main question is which version you should go for, I guess if you like V-shape you'd pick the Dynamic Driver?
> 
> For the price you can excuse the lack of Aptx, EQ, app settings etc.
> 
> ...


----------



## tlau1125

C_Lindbergh said:


> Seems very good for the price, features like ambient mode, wireless charging and IP rating for that price. Tese are the first budget True Wireless I'd consider buying. The main question is which version you should go for, I guess if you like V-shape you'd pick the Dynamic Driver?
> 
> For the price you can excuse the lack of Aptx, EQ, app settings etc.
> 
> ...


One common user comment I saw repeatedly on a Chinese shopping site was that the earpieces may not fit into the charging case when large ear tips are used.

I guess Shanling chose ambient mode over volume control.  With only touch and no gesture, there are not many reasonable options to distinguish the different desired actions (e.g. single tap, double tap, hold.  3 or more taps and other forms of tap/hold combo can be difficult to perform).


----------



## C_Lindbergh (Sep 20, 2019)

tlau1125 said:


> One common user comment I saw repeatedly on a Chinese shopping site was that the earpieces may not fit into the charging case when large ear tips are used.
> 
> I guess Shanling chose ambient mode over volume control.  With only touch and no gesture, there are not many reasonable options to distinguish the different desired actions (e.g. single tap, double tap, hold.  3 or more taps and other forms of tap/hold combo can be difficult to perform).



For me it would be really simple...

Pause/play - Ambient mode           :Single press left/right
Previous track - Next track              Double press Left/Right
Volume Up and down                     : Hold Left/Right

Only thing missing would be assistant, personally I value all the above over that.

I guess the curse lives on, there's always at least 1 major stupid decision for every True Wireless


----------



## tlau1125

C_Lindbergh said:


> For me it would be really simple...
> 
> Pause/play - Ambient mode           :Single press left/right
> Previous track - Next track              Double press Left/Right
> ...


The manufacturer also needs to make a choice on whether to allow the user to use a single earpiece.  If so, it cannot set up the controls assuming both pieces to be available.


----------



## C_Lindbergh

tlau1125 said:


> The manufacturer also needs to make a choice on whether to allow the user to use a single earpiece.  If so, it cannot set up the controls assuming both pieces to be available.



So what benefit for single use is there with no volume control? Surely you'd want to maximize its control scheme when both earpieces are in use?


----------



## hifi80sman

C_Lindbergh said:


> For me it would be really simple...
> 
> Pause/play - Ambient mode           :Single press left/right
> Previous track - Next track              Double press Left/Right
> ...


There are many lesser known Chi-Fi TWS' that have a full range of controls, so it is puzzling why some omit some features when there is no limitation with the SoC.  The only thing I can think of is the actual control part selected only has a certain number of programmable options, ergo, cheaper part that does not harness available options.


----------



## C_Lindbergh

hifi80sman said:


> There are many lesser known Chi-Fi TWS' that have a full range of controls, so it is puzzling why some omit some features when there is no limitation with the SoC.  The only thing I can think of is the actual control part selected only has a certain number of programmable options, ergo, cheaper part that does not harness available options.




Chi-Fi TWS.... and Sony's 230 Euro WFX3 (whatever the stupid name is)


----------



## webvan (Sep 20, 2019)

Took out my freshly arrived Letscom UFOs on a run today and I won't be doing it again...the "thumping" is really unpleasant (like on all sealing IEMs) and with the sweat they slipped out of position, even with the L tips. I have now put some SpinFit CP-100 L on them and the seal is great so it should be fine for bike riding (in safe areas).

On the plus side they have the "two-tap" volume control like the Anbes 359 (and unlike some other UFO clones) so they appear to be the real deal. I'm finding the SQ to be all what it was cracked to be in the numerous reviews here and elsewhere. Amazing clarity while maintaining strong bass for a ChiFi offering, a lot better than the Havit G1 that got good reviews in their day. The good surprise is that the mic appears to be a lot better than I thought I'd read as I could apparently be heard well while I was huffing and puffing.

I'm not quite clear on what the lights mean when charging as the red light seems to go off when the case is "twisted", I'll need to read up. Maybe the CP100 are making the contacts a bit loose.


----------



## FYLegend (Sep 20, 2019)

Sabbat E12 Ultra is 55$ on Drop. Ships October 23 though...
https://drop.com/buy/sabbat-e12-ultra-bluetooth-iem

I was thinking of getting it off GearVita or another site (shipping to Canada)... Aliexpress isn't cheap at all right now.



C_Lindbergh said:


> For me it would be really simple...
> 
> Pause/play - Ambient mode           :Single press left/right
> Previous track - Next track              Double press Left/Right
> ...


I recall Shanling posting here their proposed button controls and they confirmed no volume controls. They were reluctant to use single-presses in case of accidental touches.

I'm wondering what's up with MIFO? They teased an O4 a few months back but there's been no news since then. It uses the same basic design and features (ambient sound, Qi charging and Type C) as the Shanling.


----------



## tlau1125

C_Lindbergh said:


> Chi-Fi TWS.... and Sony's 230 Euro WFX3 (whatever the stupid name is)


Sony WF1000X3 does not support volume control: https://helpguide.sony.net/mdr/wf1000xm3/v1/en/contents/TP0002289883.html


----------



## hifi80sman

tlau1125 said:


> Sony WF1000X3 does not support volume control: https://helpguide.sony.net/mdr/wf1000xm3/v1/en/contents/TP0002289883.html


Yeah, I think he was contrasting the fact some random Chi-FI TWS has full controls, while the Sony, at that price, does not.  Crazy world my friend, crazy world.


----------



## tlau1125

hifi80sman said:


> Yeah, I think he was contrasting the fact some random Chi-FI TWS has full controls, while the Sony, at that price, does not.  Crazy world my friend, crazy world.


Most Chi-FI TWSes do not have ambient/noise cancellation modes.  Also for Sony it makes more sense to keep both earpieces on because with ambient mode you can become environment aware without taking one of them off but this is not the case for most TWSes ...


----------



## hifi80sman

FYLegend said:


> I'm wondering what's up with MIFO? They teased an O4 a few months back but there's been no news since then. It uses the same basic design and features (ambient sound, Qi charging and Type C) as the Shanling.




Looks like you can get them in Thailand.  http://soundproofbrosaudio.com/search.php?keyword=Mifo+O4

Look pretty sweet tho!


----------



## hifi80sman

tlau1125 said:


> Most Chi-FI TWSes do not have ambient/noise cancellation modes.  Also for Sony it makes more sense to keep both earpieces on because with ambient mode you can become environment aware without taking one of them off but this is not the case for most TWSes ...


Right, but it's much easier to implement volume control vs. ambient (reliant on mics, positioning, etc.) or ANC (additional chip, expense, etc.).  Margins are so high on a lot of this stuff, omitting volume control is really chintzy.  I have some TWS' that omit volume control, but overall, they are good performers, so I'll keep them, but speaking generically, omission is likely nothing more than literal penny pinching.


----------



## tlau1125

hifi80sman said:


> Looks like you can get them in Thailand.  http://soundproofbrosaudio.com/search.php?keyword=Mifo+O4
> 
> Look pretty sweet tho!



Almost exactly the same as Shanling MWS100 dynamic driver version, except shell finish?


----------



## sanity8me

hifi80sman said:


> I don't know what sound signature you prefer, but these things are legit.  https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07T7J55YX/
> 
> 10mm driver and they sound every bit 10mm.
> 
> ...



Will I definitely enjoy a warmer sound signature.

Are they comfortable? And is there any noise cancelling?


----------



## hifi80sman

sanity8me said:


> Will I definitely enjoy a warmer sound signature.
> 
> Are they comfortable? And is there any noise cancelling?


Yes, they are.  They are noise isolating, but there is no active noise cancellation.  Isolation is pretty good.


----------



## Tommy C

d3myz said:


> Hit them up.   Ofusho@yeah.net   They ask for a 5 star review, but i gave them a 4.5/5 in mine and honestly for a $30-35 pair of TWS they are pretty phenomenal.



So they are basically giving you free ear buds if you give them a 5 star review? Nice. Didn’t we have vendors banned from Head-Fi for doing so over the years?


----------



## d3myz

Tommy C said:


> So they are basically giving you free ear buds if you give them a 5 star review? Nice. Didn’t we have vendors banned from Head-Fi for doing so over the years?


Couldn't tell ya, I only list my honest thoughts in my reviews.


----------



## Tavleen Suri

FYLegend said:


> Sabbat E12 Ultra is 55$ on Drop. Ships October 23 though...
> https://drop.com/buy/sabbat-e12-ultra-bluetooth-iem
> 
> I was thinking of getting it off GearVita or another site (shipping to Canada)... Aliexpress isn't cheap at all right now.
> ...


Ultras are also available on eBay for arnd 51 52 usd. Also saw some cool camo color options for the buds. Thinking of getting one myself.


----------



## FYLegend

Tavleen Suri said:


> Ultras are also available on eBay for arnd 51 52 usd. Also saw some cool camo color options for the buds. Thinking of getting one myself.


Yeah, I'm just not sure what shipping they're using... Wouldn't mind ePacket but after my experience with getting a dud Sabbat E12 on Aliexpress, I don't think I can take the risk again. I hope Amazon.ca can fullfill them soon but that usually takes a long time after release, and it will likely be under a third-party/grey-market seller at a higher price.


----------



## Tavleen Suri

FYLegend said:


> Yeah, I'm just not sure what shipping they're using... Wouldn't mind ePacket but after my experience with getting a dud Sabbat E12 on Aliexpress, I don't think I can take the risk again. I hope Amazon.ca can fullfill them soon but that usually takes a long time after release, and it will likely be under a third-party/grey-market seller at a higher price.


Pretty sure it will be shipped via epacket...my experience with chinese shipments hasnt been too bad so I guess i 'll take my chance...considering there is a 30 usd price diff bw amazon and eBay and I want those green camos


----------



## DDDYKI

Spent the past few days using the Jade Audio EW1 and I'm still very impressed. I gave some brief initial impressions a few pages back and not much has changed. Connectivity is very good, but not perfect. Not as many drops as I feared from my past experience with the Outlier Air and some other standard BT headphones. 

The controls are so not intuitive to me. I can't keep straight whether pause is with two taps, or a long tap. And I swear that sometimes, neither method works for me. I just end up taking the buds out of my ears so I can have my conversation. I like that I can control the volume, although when I answered a call earlier, they were at max volume for some reason.

Bass is still not very strong, but everything else is good. Right earpiece still doesn't fit as well in my right ear as the left, so I'll look into Comply foam.


----------



## Caipirina

webvan said:


> On the plus side they have the "two-tap" volume control like the Anbes 359



Whoot? My Anbes have vol control? Gosh, I can't keep up which TWS have and which not (and how) ... I just feel for the vol buttons on my phone in my kidney pouch. 

BTW, on this morning's run I also felt that thumping somehow stronger than usual ... still they are somehow my go-to buds for running ...


----------



## chinmie

FYLegend said:


> after my experience with getting a dud Sabbat E12 on Aliexpress


me too. mine is dead on one side after only using it for two days.


----------



## aPot

d3myz said:


> Couldn't tell ya, I only list my honest thoughts in my reviews.



They called my bluff. Got any pictures of your card still?


----------



## Caipirina

chinmie said:


> me too. mine is dead on one side after only using it for two days.


Guys, where did you order your E12 from? Coz I had a dud as well from SHZONS store, and they were less than helpful resolving the issue. They played the long game with ‘send picture’ ... ‘send video’ ... ‘no we can’t watch YouTube’ ...  anyways, after 2 weeks of that they expected I still had the envelope & packing materials!!!

 

... that’s when I talked to AliExpress support directly and eventually got my money back. 

wouldn’t be surprised if you ordered from them as well. What was your outcome? Dispute? Resolved? I had so far overall very good experiences with the dispute system. Sometimes they seem to be a bit ‘hard of hearing’ ... but sometimes they understand that there is no way to send proof (like I had one earbud getting seriously hot when in operation...)


----------



## Soreniglio

Guys, I am so fed up with faulty/poorly made TWS earphones, is there ANYTHING that is adamant about quality and which is not too expensive? Tranya T3 are good? I'm just tired by now, I've been posting here since May and I haven't found a single pair which was okay, besides my QCY, but as I told you the right earphone volume turned very low.


----------



## hifi80sman

TWS or a sports car?!  8mm "pure copper speakers".  Looks interesting... 
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07W87S9V1/


----------



## vstolpner

hifi80sman said:


> TWS or a sports car?!  8mm "pure copper speakers".  Looks interesting...
> https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07W87S9V1/


Interesting hinge! Lol


----------



## chinmie

Caipirina said:


> Guys, where did you order your E12 from? Coz I had a dud as well from SHZONS store, and they were less than helpful resolving the issue. They played the long game with ‘send picture’ ... ‘send video’ ... ‘no we can’t watch YouTube’ ...  anyways, after 2 weeks of that they expected I still had the envelope & packing materials!!!
> 
> 
> 
> ...



i got mine from DKG3C Electron Store. but the dispute experience was almost the same as yours. they even tried to convince me to settle it outside AE via paypal, but i had read somewhere that it can end up that they pull the fund back from our paypal account. 

after a long back and forth, i settled for 50% refund


----------



## Caipirina

chinmie said:


> i got mine from DKG3C Electron Store. but the dispute experience was almost the same as yours. they even tried to convince me to settle it outside AE via paypal, but i had read somewhere that it can end up that they pull the fund back from our paypal account.
> 
> after a long back and forth, i settled for 50% refund



I had that several times that sellers tried to settle out of the AE system by paypal 'it's faster' ... and they wanted to me to cancel the dispute ... in those cases I immediately report them and copy all conversation to the dispute police .. has worked well so far


----------



## webvan

Caipirina said:


> Whoot? My Anbes have vol control? Gosh, I can't keep up which TWS have and which not (and how) ... I just feel for the vol buttons on my phone in my kidney pouch.
> 
> BTW, on this morning's run I also felt that thumping somehow stronger than usual ... still they are somehow my go-to buds for running ...



I'm going back to the X12 for running 

The CP100 L were maybe a tad large for the case of the Anbes, I switched to the Whirlwind L and it's better. I'll try the CP100 M next. What tips are you guys using ?


----------



## gibletzor

LordToneeus said:


> I've had them for about an hour now, and I would definitely classify these as a "solid buy"- ESPECIALLY for $30.
> 
> They are very small and light, and do not stick out of my ears.  They do not seat as well for me as the Mpow T5, Panfrey's, or the Ofusho F16's, but after a walk and a jog up some stairs I can tell you they aren't going anywhere.  The case is one of the smallest I've come across.
> 
> ...


I got mine last night and am trying them out now.  So far I would agree, definitely a solid pickup for $30 if the discount code is still good.  Good sound, comfortable, responsive clicky controls (though I prefer touch).


----------



## Caipirina

webvan said:


> I'm going back to the X12 for running
> 
> The CP100 L were maybe a tad large for the case of the Anbes, I switched to the Whirlwind L and it's better. I'll try the CP100 M next. What tips are you guys using ?



these guys. I think they came with the E12.


----------



## sanity8me

hifi80sman said:


> Yes, they are.  They are noise isolating, but there is no active noise cancellation.  Isolation is pretty good.



Since I'm thinking I'd use them for yard work, like lawn mowing and leaf blowing, I think I'd value active noise cancelling functionality.

Or do you think that's not really worth it at this point compared to the normal noise isolation that buds like these offer?


----------



## hifi80sman

sanity8me said:


> Since I'm thinking I'd use them for yard work, like lawn mowing and leaf blowing, I think I'd value active noise cancelling functionality.
> 
> Or do you think that's not really worth it at this point compared to the normal noise isolation that buds like these offer?


I mean, I use them for the same thing (mowing lawn, edging, blower) and they work great putting me in my own little world.  Once you have a good seal and the music is playing, I'd think you'll be good to go.  Yes, you will still hear things a bit, but again, once the music is going, it's really not something I notice.  You could go for the Sony, but you're looking at $230 vs. $30ish and they don't have an IP rating.  Honestly, with a good IEM design, you're getting good isolation in most cases.  Shoot, musicians wear them at loud concerts (not TWS', but you get my point), far louder than any lawnmower.  You could also play with tips/seal.

I know you're probably looking for a one and done TWS, but you may be better off with just a few for select activities (e.g. gym, yard work, office), so if anything goes wrong, you're not out $200+ and you can just replace one of them.  That being said, as far as name brand vs. Chi-Fi, I haven't run into any issues with differences in durability under standard use conditions (I don't throw them around in "my bag", etc).  Some Chi-Fi units sounded bad (MEGIVEZ, MEBUYZ, TCTECO), but they were promptly returned.


----------



## keeya

Where are we at with the best sounding TW earbuds right now? Is it still between the Master & Dynamic, Sennheiser, and the Sony ones?
I want the best sound quality, regardless of price.. I got the Sennheiser but they were so buggy I had to return them.  
Anything in the new pipeline coming out that may be better than these three?


----------



## clerkpalmer

keeya said:


> Where are we at with the best sounding TW earbuds right now? Is it still between the Master & Dynamic, Sennheiser, and the Sony ones?
> I want the best sound quality, regardless of price.. I got the Sennheiser but they were so buggy I had to return them.
> Anything in the new pipeline coming out that may be better than these three?



I would put sony two notches below mw07 and the sennheiser one notch below.  So yes, mw07 is still the best but I would hold off a couple weeks as an upgraded model seems imminent.  Alternatively, you can beat the sq of the mw07 if you go iem plus bt20s and pair it with something nice but no waterproofing in that setup.


----------



## gibletzor

Ran across this article linked on Reddit today.  I don't remember seeing it here so I thought I'd share.


----------



## chinmie

sanity8me said:


> Since I'm thinking I'd use them for yard work, like lawn mowing and leaf blowing, I think I'd value active noise cancelling functionality.
> 
> Or do you think that's not really worth it at this point compared to the normal noise isolation that buds like these offer?



the cheapest TWS solution for active noise cancelling is probably the Bonola ANC. @Caipirina  has one, so he would certainly can give better opinions about it than me



gibletzor said:


> Ran across this article linked on Reddit today.  I don't remember seeing it here so I thought I'd share.



Crinacle has posted that article on his thread here in Headfi, but i think you're right about it not yet been posted on this thread. 

I've just met my friend last night and compared his Nuarl and Mavin to my Galaxy Buds. to our conclusion, the Gbuds is a solid performer and really clean sounding. 
i personally prefer the Gbuds sound than the Mavin and Nuarl because the midbass section is cleaner and less cluttered in the soundstage. a bit surprising for me because i really didn't expect much about the Gbuds when i bought it. now i genuinely think this Gbuds is a keeper and my new favorite TWS


----------



## Caipirina

chinmie said:


> the cheapest TWS solution for active noise cancelling is probably the Bonola ANC. @Caipirina  has one, so he would certainly can give better opinions about it than me



Last weekend I got to test the Bonola ANC on a long car ride (me not at the wheel, mind you) and I was pretty impressed by the ANC, more than i.e. the older Sony offerings. But not on par with the Bose QC35 over ears    ...  how that would perform for yard work ... no idea really, would not expect too much there


----------



## chinmie

Caipirina said:


> Last weekend I got to test the Bonola ANC on a long car ride (me not at the wheel, mind you) and I was pretty impressed by the ANC, more than i.e. the older Sony offerings. But not on par with the Bose QC35 over ears    ...  how that would perform for yard work ... no idea really, would not expect too much there



try them for vacuum cleaner if you can. if it performs well, i think I'll buy it next AE sale


----------



## SomeGuyDude

gibletzor said:


> Ran across this article linked on Reddit today.  I don't remember seeing it here so I thought I'd share.



Whoever wrote that needs to immediately turn in their "audiophile" card because putting the MW07 and MTW near the bottom with the ****ing Sony and Jabra up top is just hilarious.


----------



## gibletzor

SomeGuyDude said:


> Whoever wrote that needs to immediately turn in their "audiophile" card because putting the MW07 and MTW near the bottom with the ****ing Sony and Jabra up top is just hilarious.


Well it was written by Crinacle, who I understand to be a very respected reviewer and member of this community.  I'm not familiar with the guy and the only one of those TWS I've tried is the Galaxy Buds.


----------



## chinmie

gibletzor said:


> Well it was written by Crinacle, who I understand to be a very respected reviewer and member of this community.  I'm not familiar with the guy and the only one of those TWS I've tried is the Galaxy Buds.



he has his share of followers and is well known here on Headfi, but i wouldn't go too far as agreeing to everything he said as gospel. he is entitled to his opinion, i agree to some his review, while also disagree to some too. 

his set of playlist (that you can find in spotify if anyone curious) is very different to mine. some earphones can outperform the other in one song, but that situation might switch with other song, so take that also into consideration.


----------



## clerkpalmer

That list struck me as odd as well. I haven't heard the galaxy buds yet. I dont think the mw07 has audiophile sound so maybe that's why. They are warm and have colored tonality which is what I love about them.


----------



## hifi80sman

gibletzor said:


> Ran across this article linked on Reddit today.  I don't remember seeing it here so I thought I'd share.


With all due respect, I pretty much disagree with most of the article.  I enjoy a variety of signatures, just as I enjoy a variety of foods or a variety of workouts.  It's clear it's from the perspective of an audio "purist".

That being said, I was turned off by the article, not because of the opinion, but because of the condescending tone toward those who would disagree, such as when they say the "_MW07 is the epitome of the consumerist sound signature. The extreme V-shape appeals to the average shopper who asks “do you have something with bass?_".  That's just a loaded statement.  God forbid you're a "consumer", and if you are, clearly they feel you're lesser and just a brainless follower of the masses.  Maybe manufacturers make things that appeal to the typical consumer because that's what a lot of human beings like!  God forbid you love pizza, pasta, etc. and aren't a connoisseur of escargot.

Most people don't just like ONE thing.  I have most of those TWS' in my collection, but returned the 65t because I just didn't like the sound enough.  If I were to describe the sound as a feeling, it's like getting a decent shirt for Christmas.  It's nice, but I'm not emotionally moved.


----------



## hifi80sman

SomeGuyDude said:


> Whoever wrote that needs to immediately turn in their "audiophile" card because putting the MW07 and MTW near the bottom with the ****ing Sony and Jabra up top is just hilarious.


The Jabra _*really *_surprised me.  Maybe because it's highly inoffensive, but I would never recommend that TWS to anyone unless they are looking to use it for business calls.

Speaking of calls, someone on here recommended the Partron PWE-100, which uses the QCC3026 and is reported to have excellent call quality.  Oh, and it has an app.

Well, ordered it, because hey, wife decided to buy that Louis Vuitton wallet, so you know, that means green light for me!  LOL!  It's almost here...


----------



## FYLegend (Sep 22, 2019)

chinmie said:


> i got mine from DKG3C Electron Store. but the dispute experience was almost the same as yours. they even tried to convince me to settle it outside AE via paypal, but i had read somewhere that it can end up that they pull the fund back from our paypal account.
> 
> after a long back and forth, i settled for 50% refund


I got mine from Flyda 3C and the store person was "Suki Chen". Back in July the original Sabbat E12 would only go on sale for 70CAD every 12 hours or so on a few vendors ONLY on the app, otherwise it was 90CAD either way. Unlike the Anbes fiasco, the seller didn't personally respond and just said "please pair again" and posted a photo of the manual pointing to the section that claims "sound quality improves over time". Even if burn in affects drivers, there's no way it can recover inherent audio imbalance. Aliexpress responded with "please do as the seller says and try recording each bud individually, we can't hear the problem." I said I already did a factory reset and that they should listen to the sample again as I could hear it with my other devices. I don't have professional recording equipment for the buds so it's almost unfair to demand that, I could only get an approximation using my phone mics. The dispute was rejected before the expected end date and I didn't have the time to provide a second sample.


----------



## Caipirina

chinmie said:


> try them for vacuum cleaner if you can. if it performs well, i think I'll buy it next AE sale


LoL , don’t have a vacuum cleaner. And don’t ask for hair dryer either 




Will try on plane in 2 weeks!


----------



## chinmie

FYLegend said:


> I got mine from Flyda 3C and the store person was "Suki Chen". Back in July the original Sabbat E12 would only go on sale for 70CAD every 12 hours or so on a few vendors ONLY on the app, otherwise it was 90CAD either way. Unlike the Anbes fiasco, the seller didn't personally respond and just said "please pair again" and posted a photo of the manual pointing to the section that claims "sound quality improves over time". Even if burn in affects drivers, there's no way it can recover inherent audio imbalance. Aliexpress responded with "please do as the manufacturer says and try recording each bud individually, we can't hear the problem." I said I already did a factory reset and that they should listen to the sample again as I could hear it with my other devices. I don't have professional recording equipment for the buds so it's almost unfair to demand that, I could only get an approximation using my phone mics. The dispute was rejected before the expected end date and I didn't have the time to provide a second sample.



darn.. that is unfortunate. but i do feel also that the AE mediation favors the seller more, like i experienced with my dispute case. i have to upload the video only to the AE app, but the app itself really limits the duration or size of the video. i tried to reason that using youtube would be better to see the problem more clearly, but the AE mediation (not the seller) said any proof can only be submitted via the AE site, and that posting it in other site would not be valid as proof.


----------



## chinmie

hifi80sman said:


> The Jabra _*really *_surprised me.  Maybe because it's highly inoffensive, but I would never recommend that TWS to anyone unless they are looking to use it for business calls.
> 
> Speaking of calls, someone on here recommended the Partron PWE-100, which uses the QCC3026 and is reported to have excellent call quality.  Oh, and it has an app.
> 
> Well, ordered it, because hey, wife decided to buy that Louis Vuitton wallet, so you know, that means green light for me!  LOL!  It's almost here...



have you tried the Galaxy buds? between that and the Jabra, it sounds cleaner, more extended, and also fits better. 
the jabra sounds okay, and i would have kept it if the fit is better and didn't have that channel imbalance problem.


----------



## crinacle

This thread is a prime example of why I'm hardly on this website anymore. What a toxic bunch of people.


----------



## hifi80sman

chinmie said:


> have you tried the Galaxy buds? between that and the Jabra, it sounds cleaner, more extended, and also fits better.
> the jabra sounds okay, and i would have kept it if the fit is better and didn't have that channel imbalance problem.


Yeah, I had the Galaxy Buds and did enjoy them (I did give it a little bass push, however), but they are definitely clean, clear, crisp, etc.  The issue I had was that one side, I think the left, became progressively softer in volume over time, so I returned them before the return window closed.  All-in-all I did enjoy them, thought they fit well, calls were good, and I could get a bit of bass bump that was satisfying.  If it weren't for the imbalance, probably what you're experiencing with the 65t, I would have kept them.


----------



## hifi80sman

crinacle said:


> This thread is a prime example of why I'm hardly on this website anymore. What a toxic bunch of people.


Come on, brother, smile.    Everyone has a difference of opinions, no problem.  Everyone has a right to enjoy what they enjoy, for sure, 100%.  I think some of the feedback is not necessarily the opinion itself, but it sounds like your talking down to people as "inferior" because they may enjoy something more along the mainstream sound signature.  I appreciate your viewpoint from a technical perspective, but it's also rife with subtle digs at "regular" people.

E8
_"I don’t get why these have been so highly praised." _- Seemingly a knock against those that like and recommend it.  I for one enjoy them and I think they sound good when EQd via app for my taste.  One of the benefits is the app, so I imagine much of the feedback is after they're EQd for each person's taste.

MW07
The "_MW07 is the epitome of the consumerist sound signature. The extreme V-shape appeals to the average shopper who asks “do you have something with bass?_” - Once again, it seems other than your general opinion of what they sound like from a purist perspective, you're talking down to those that may be an "average shopper", as if they're all bumbling fools just looking for Beats, yo.

MTW
"_The only explanation I can give is that the MTW is solely carried by the name that is “Sennheiser”, leading to a level of cognitive dissonance for the inexperienced._" - Implication here, is that only an inexperienced person, lesser than your experience, could possibly enjoy these.

Maybe you didn't mean it as it came across.


----------



## exitfire401

crinacle said:


> This thread is a prime example of why I'm hardly on this website anymore. What a toxic bunch of people.


I'd only really consider a single one of the three responses to the original article link toxic... Surely by now you know not everybody is going to agree with you.


----------



## gibletzor (Sep 22, 2019)

chinmie said:


> he has his share of followers and is well known here on Headfi, but i wouldn't go too far as agreeing to everything he said as gospel. he is entitled to his opinion, i agree to some his review, while also disagree to some too.
> 
> his set of playlist (that you can find in spotify if anyone curious) is very different to mine. some earphones can outperform the other in one song, but that situation might switch with other song, so take that also into consideration.





hifi80sman said:


> With all due respect, I pretty much disagree with most of the article.  I enjoy a variety of signatures, just as I enjoy a variety of foods or a variety of workouts.  It's clear it's from the perspective of an audio "purist".
> 
> That being said, I was turned off by the article, not because of the opinion, but because of the condescending tone toward those who would disagree, such as when they say the "_MW07 is the epitome of the consumerist sound signature. The extreme V-shape appeals to the average shopper who asks “do you have something with bass?_".  That's just a loaded statement.  God forbid you're a "consumer", and if you are, clearly they feel you're lesser and just a brainless follower of the masses.  Maybe manufacturers make things that appeal to the typical consumer because that's what a lot of human beings like!  God forbid you love pizza, pasta, etc. and aren't a connoisseur of escargot.
> 
> Most people don't just like ONE thing.  I have most of those TWS' in my collection, but returned the 65t because I just didn't like the sound enough.  If I were to describe the sound as a feeling, it's like getting a decent shirt for Christmas.  It's nice, but I'm not emotionally moved.


Yeah I didn't mean to come off as defending him as being the ultimate word in audio quality.  I just thought it was an interesting point of view because some of it disagrees with a lot of what is said here, but I was surprised by the Galaxy Buds and Jabras being so high on the list.  I do think the GBuds sound great, but I haven't tried the MW07 or TMW personally.  Nothing wrong with an alternate viewpoint from another type of listener.

Would have been nice to see one of the better Chi-fi units on there though.  They may be too "consumer oriented" for him though, too.

Also, that Christmas shirt analogy is gold!


----------



## vstolpner

Got my Shanling MTW100 today!! First impressions are awesome! Sound is fantastic! Haven't tried the ambient mode yet, just waiting for them to break in a little more.

Can't wait to try them out over the weekend. Will try to post the review soon!

Got the Occiam A5 from the Facebook group too... Huge case but 2200mAh does take up some space.


----------



## Soreniglio

hifi80sman said:


> The Jabra _*really *_surprised me.  Maybe because it's highly inoffensive, but I would never recommend that TWS to anyone unless they are looking to use it for business calls.
> 
> Speaking of calls, someone on here recommended the Partron PWE-100, which uses the QCC3026 and is reported to have excellent call quality.  Oh, and it has an app.
> 
> Well, ordered it, because hey, wife decided to buy that Louis Vuitton wallet, so you know, that means green light for me!  LOL!  It's almost here...



I love how these look, but they're nowhere to be found for EU soil


----------



## LordToneeus

vstolpner said:


> Got my Shanling MTW100 today!! First impressions are awesome! Sound is fantastic! Haven't tried the ambient mode yet, just waiting for them to break in a little more.
> 
> Can't wait to try them out over the weekend. Will try to post the review soon!
> 
> Got the Occiam A5 from the Facebook group too... Huge case but 2200mAh does take up some space.



Oh, you have my fancy tickled. Can’t wait to hear more.


----------



## HiFlight

keeya said:


> Where are we at with the best sounding TW earbuds right now? Is it still between the Master & Dynamic, Sennheiser, and the Sony ones?
> I want the best sound quality, regardless of price.. I got the Sennheiser but they were so buggy I had to return them.
> Anything in the new pipeline coming out that may be better than these three?


Don't overlook the Mavin Air-X.  Excellent sound + 10hrs between charges.


----------



## mattedialdoc

vstolpner said:


> Got my Shanling MTW100 today!! First impressions are awesome! Sound is fantastic! Haven't tried the ambient mode yet, just waiting for them to break in a little more.
> 
> Can't wait to try them out over the weekend. Will try to post the review soon!
> 
> Got the Occiam A5 from the Facebook group too... Huge case but 2200mAh does take up some space.



Can you confirm there is no volume adjustment on the buds?


----------



## Grimc

Hi guys, I'm looking for a TWS heaphone, but I have some doubts about which SoC shoud I take into consideration, the candidates are the Realtek 8763BFR and the QUALCOMM QCC3020, looking at the specifications of them I saw that the Realtek supports stereo output and the QCC3020 doesn't. So that makes the former better?

I'm considering these 2 models:

Havit i96 - Realtek 8763BFR
https://gearvita.com/havit-i96-bluetooth-earbuds.html

Wavefun X-Pods 3 - QUALCOMM QCC3020
https://gearvita.com/wavefun-x-pods3-bluetooth-earbuds.html


----------



## vstolpner

Grimc said:


> Hi guys, I'm looking for a TWS heaphone, but I have some doubts about which SoC shoud I take into consideration, the candidates are the Realtek 8763BFR and the QUALCOMM QCC3020, looking at the specifications of them I saw that the Realtek supports stereo output and the QCC3020 doesn't. So that makes the former better?
> 
> I'm considering these 2 models:
> 
> ...



Both chipsets are just fine. I've had both and don't have complaints about either. I do have complaints about some earphones that use them. Wavefun weren't my favorite - see my review in signature.

If you want suggestion about what TWS to buy, explain what kind of sound and other aspects (case size, earphone fitment, battery life, etc) you're looking for.


----------



## vstolpner

mattedialdoc said:


> Can you confirm there is no volume adjustment on the buds?



Haven't found that function yet, but have only used them for 5 minutes.
I do recall that conversation on here before (either this thread or the Shanling thread). Search for posts by @Shanling


----------



## sanity8me

hifi80sman said:


> I mean, I use them for the same thing (mowing lawn, edging, blower) and they work great putting me in my own little world.  Once you have a good seal and the music is playing, I'd think you'll be good to go.  Yes, you will still hear things a bit, but again, once the music is going, it's really not something I notice.  You could go for the Sony, but you're looking at $230 vs. $30ish and they don't have an IP rating.  Honestly, with a good IEM design, you're getting good isolation in most cases.  Shoot, musicians wear them at loud concerts (not TWS', but you get my point), far louder than any lawnmower.  You could also play with tips/seal.
> 
> I know you're probably looking for a one and done TWS, but you may be better off with just a few for select activities (e.g. gym, yard work, office), so if anything goes wrong, you're not out $200+ and you can just replace one of them.  That being said, as far as name brand vs. Chi-Fi, I haven't run into any issues with differences in durability under standard use conditions (I don't throw them around in "my bag", etc).  Some Chi-Fi units sounded bad (MEGIVEZ, MEBUYZ, TCTECO), but they were promptly returned.





chinmie said:


> the cheapest TWS solution for active noise cancelling is probably the Bonola ANC. @Caipirina  has one, so he would certainly can give better opinions about it than me
> 
> 
> 
> ...



What about the noise cancelling functionality of buds like the F16 ?


----------



## mattedialdoc

vstolpner said:


> Haven't found that function yet, but have only used them for 5 minutes.
> I do recall that conversation on here before (either this thread or the Shanling thread). Search for posts by @Shanling



Yeah he hasn’t said. Let us know when you go to adjust the volume!!


----------



## clerkpalmer

crinacle said:


> What a toxic bunch of people.



I've been on this thread a long time  Your response is over the top and unnecessary. And i would certainly appreciate you staying involved and contributing.  I read your list when it was first posted and thought that hey, reasonable minds disagree on sq. Nevertheless it was thoughtful and well done.  I personally think the mw07 sounds stunning but can admit it is far from neutral in presentation. Stick around and contribute.  Dont let a couple of critics bother you. It's the interweb.  It happens. The vast majority of us appreciate the opinions and dialogue even if we dont always agree.


----------



## VTman

Anroog A10
Somebody shared an older BT4.0 version of this model before, but seems they have updated to BT5.0 now. A little bit bulky as a TWS, but they come with 10mm drivers and wired option. Anyone interested?


----------



## howdy

Has anyone heard anything more about the MW07 plus? Really interested in giving these a try, and hope the fit is better for me. I really miss the sound sig.


----------



## charleski (Sep 23, 2019)

Grimc said:


> Hi guys, I'm looking for a TWS heaphone, but I have some doubts about which SoC shoud I take into consideration, the candidates are the Realtek 8763BFR and the QUALCOMM QCC3020, looking at the specifications of them I saw that the Realtek supports stereo output and the QCC3020 doesn't. So that makes the former better?
> 
> I'm considering these 2 models:
> 
> ...


I have two TWSs, one with the Realtek and one with the Qualcomm (Syllable S101). The connection quality on the Syllable is _significantly_ superior. It's still not perfect, but the difference is such that it's really in a different class. This is largely a result of differences in the BT antenna, but the SoC will probably play a major role as well. My phone runs on a Qualcomm 845, so that might be a factor too. The Syllable also goes louder and has volume control.

After this experience I wouldn't even consider a TWS with a Realtek or Airoha chip unless you're really just shopping for the cheapest thing you can find.

[Edit] BTW, these things are set up with one chip in each earbud, so stereo output is irrelevant for a TWS. The Realtek probably has it so the chip can also be used in a neckband design.


----------



## vstolpner

charleski said:


> I have two TWSs, one with the Realtek and one with the Qualcomm (Syllable S101). The connection quality on the Syllable is _significantly_ superior. It's still not perfect, but the difference is such that it's really in a different class. This is largely a result of differences in the BT antenna, but the SoC will probably play a major role as well. My phone runs on a Qualcomm 845, so that might be a factor too. The Syllable also goes louder and has volume control.
> 
> After this experience I wouldn't even consider a TWS with a Realtek or Airoha chip unless you're really just shopping for the cheapest thing you can find.



The absolute Best connection I've ever had on any TWS is with the TRN BT20. Yes the chip makes a difference, but so does the antenna, the construction, the capacity for interference, etc.

The Wavefun Xpods 3 were a Qualcomm chip, but they were no better than any of the other 8 TWS I've tried. And the Mpow T5 (QCC also) get constant interruptions in certain pocket in specific orientations.

If you're looking for the best connection, research that topic specifically and don't use a chipset as the deciding factor. Especially when quality control on Chi-Fi could mean your dud is just bad soldering.


----------



## charleski

vstolpner said:


> The absolute Best connection I've ever had on any TWS is with the TRN BT20. Yes the chip makes a difference, but so does the antenna, the construction, the capacity for interference, etc.
> 
> The Wavefun Xpods 3 were a Qualcomm chip, but they were no better than any of the other 8 TWS I've tried. And the Mpow T5 (QCC also) get constant interruptions in certain pocket in specific orientations.
> 
> If you're looking for the best connection, research that topic specifically and don't use a chipset as the deciding factor. Especially when quality control on Chi-Fi could mean your dud is just bad soldering.


The antenna is certainly the most important factor, and the TRN benefits from having a lot of space to route a relatively long antenna trace. But what decided me was the ease with which the different models recovered from a burst of interference. The QCY with the Realtek chip would sometimes lock up and just keep stuttering until I paused the music, which is down to the SoC.


----------



## Chmate

howdy said:


> Has anyone heard anything more about the MW07 plus? Really interested in giving these a try, and hope the fit is better for me. I really miss the sound sig.


No official news yet, but the FCC filings already have some pictures to keep you entertained: https://fccid.io/2AGA7MW07PR.


----------



## chinmie

vstolpner said:


> The absolute Best connection I've ever had on any TWS is with the TRN BT20. Yes the chip makes a difference, but so does the antenna, the construction, the capacity for interference, etc.
> 
> The Wavefun Xpods 3 were a Qualcomm chip, but they were no better than any of the other 8 TWS I've tried. And the Mpow T5 (QCC also) get constant interruptions in certain pocket in specific orientations.
> 
> If you're looking for the best connection, research that topic specifically and don't use a chipset as the deciding factor. Especially when quality control on Chi-Fi could mean your dud is just bad soldering.



the BT20 does have a great connection, but it still skips briefly with my phone from time to time, although it is infrequent. the BT20S however, never skips a single time since i bought them


----------



## C_Lindbergh

mattedialdoc said:


> Can you confirm there is no volume adjustment on the buds?



Yepp, just looked at the manual for the Shanling MTW100... Controls seems really awful -.- Triple that so change song and hold for a whopping 3 sec in order to active ambient mode.. Usually you want to enter and exit it fast for conversation/announcements.


----------



## 05stisilver

I wanted to see if anyone had any recommendations for running/trail running earbuds. My priorities are secure fit, sound quality, possibly ambient mode. I had the Jabra 65t but the fit was horrible as well as I didn't care for the sound quality.


----------



## jlcsoft

My right tranya t3 started to sound very low, and it was for the wax of my ear. I had to remove the protector mesh, to recover the sound. Now I´m looking for a mesh replacement. I see metalic meshes in alixpress, really cheap. Do you think it will be a good replacement?.

Here is one of the links.  

https://es.aliexpress.com/item/3300...chweb0_0,searchweb201602_2,searchweb201603_55


Thxs for your help.


----------



## webvan

Has anyone compared the Anbes 359 and the Tiso i4 ? The Tiso i4


05stisilver said:


> I wanted to see if anyone had any recommendations for running/trail running earbuds. My priorities are secure fit, sound quality, possibly ambient mode. I had the Jabra 65t but the fit was horrible as well as I didn't care for the sound quality.


Best running earbuds are the Sabbat X12 Pro to me as they do NOT have the "thumping" problem on each stride like all sealing IEMs, (including the 65ts of course) are very light, and have a "built-in" ambient mode since they don't seal. They sound ok, nice and warm, but like some clarity/definition. I can live with that while running


----------



## Bartig

I honestly don't remember who of you asked this (sorry!), but here it finally is after lots of testing and comparing - my Samsung Galaxy Buds review with and without the Samsung Gear app.


 

Oh - also published my review on the Creative Outlier Air and Creative Outlier Gold.


----------



## vstolpner

webvan said:


> Has anyone compared the Anbes 359 and the Tiso i4 ?



I've compared them both. The Tiso i4 has a really strong, almost overpowering bass, though it causes some weird reverb when people talk in some scenarios.

The 359 has much less pronounced bass by comparison but sounds far better IMO. Better case and fit too.

See my reviews for both in my signature


----------



## webvan

Thanks, yes I'm quite happy with the Anbes 359 although I'm still experimenting with tips. Right now I'm using the old Sony+Foam tips and they isolate very well but can "plug" my ears depending on the way I insert them. I'll give the Tiso i4 a pass then !


----------



## hifi80sman (Sep 23, 2019)

Partron PWE-100
If you only care about sound, these are a great buy.  Out of the box, the signature is audiophile friendly, with a clean, clear presentation, similar to the Galaxy Buds, although I do think the Partron PWE-100 sound a smidgen better.  There is an app that offers firmware updates (you have to update each earbud separately) and an EQ, however, the EQ only has 3 presets (Normal, Bass, Treble) and would not allow me to adjust the frequencies individually (although it does show a 5 band EQ).  The Bass preset, for me, worked well, and does not turn it into a bass monster, rather, it retains all the great characteristics of a near-flat balanced signature, but just kicks up the bass a bit, more along the lines of Audio-Technica's "Solid Bass" line.  Qualcomm QCC3026 SoC.

Ahh, but things were too good to be true.  Some deal killers for me, unfortunately.

-  Calls only came out of one ear.
-  Physical controls ONLY worked to play/pause, answer/end calls.  Even the 2x press indicated to launch Siri, Google Assistant, etc. didn't work.
-  There were some unexplained drop outs when listening at my desk with my phone literally 18 inches in front of me.


----------



## vstolpner

hifi80sman said:


> Partron PWE-100
> If you only care about sound, these are a great buy.  Out of the box, the signature is audiophile friendly, with a clean, clear presentation, similar to the Galaxy Buds, although I do think the Partron PWE-100 sound a smidgen better.  There is an app that offers firmware updates (you have to update each earbud separately) and an EQ, however, the EQ only has 3 presets (Normal, Bass, Treble) and would not allow me to adjust the frequencies individually (although it does show a 5 band EQ).  The Bass preset, for me, worked well, and does not turn it into a bass monster, rather, it retains all the great characteristics of a near-flat balanced signature, but just kicks up the bass a bit, more along the lines of Audio-Technica's "Solid Bass" line.  Qualcomm QCC3026 SoC.
> 
> Ahh, but things were too good to be true.  Some deal killers for me, unfortunately.
> ...




I wonder if they do calls from single ear to cut down on the delay? When I tested just about every single TWS for talking,I got a 1+ second audio delay when testing. Can you see if these improve on that? 
I would tap my microphone and the person on the other end would tap theirs as soon as they hear my tap.


----------



## hifi80sman

vstolpner said:


> I wonder if they do calls from single ear to cut down on the delay? When I tested just about every single TWS for talking,I got a 1+ second audio delay when testing. Can you see if these improve on that?
> I would tap my microphone and the person on the other end would tap theirs as soon as they hear my tap.


I already returned them, unfortunately.

They do operate on a mater/slave setup, so I think it's a possibility they were set up for optimum call speed.  If that were the only issue, I probably could have dealt with it, but given there were literally no controls on the earbuds and the connection wasn't great, I had no other choice.  The mic did seem to pick up my voice well in a quiet office, however.


----------



## asak

hifi80sman said:


> Partron PWE-100
> If you only care about sound, these are a great buy.  Out of the box, the signature is audiophile friendly, with a clean, clear presentation, similar to the Galaxy Buds, although I do think the Partron PWE-100 sound a smidgen better.  There is an app that offers firmware updates (you have to update each earbud separately) and an EQ, however, the EQ only has 3 presets (Normal, Bass, Treble) and would not allow me to adjust the frequencies individually (although it does show a 5 band EQ).  The Bass preset, for me, worked well, and does not turn it into a bass monster, rather, it retains all the great characteristics of a near-flat balanced signature, but just kicks up the bass a bit, more along the lines of Audio-Technica's "Solid Bass" line.  Qualcomm QCC3026 SoC.
> 
> Ahh, but things were too good to be true.  Some deal killers for me, unfortunately.
> ...



Mine have just as good of connection as anything out there, connected to an Iphone 10R. Walking around the house listening to music or talking on the phone, with one ear and the phone on the charger, works fine. Just my 2 cents, from my personal experience with them.


----------



## hifi80sman

asak said:


> Mine have just as good of connection as anything out there, connected to an Iphone 10R. Walking around the house listening to music or talking on the phone, with one ear and the phone on the charger, works fine. Just my 2 cents, from my personal experience with them.


Yeah, I may have received a dud in terms of connection.

For me, I can go without volume control (not preferred, but I can manage), but no track control is a deal breaker.  I go through songs regularly at the gym, so practical use in most cases is out the window.  On top of that, the 1 earbud for calls is another factor.  But again, they sound amazing and work for some.


----------



## Tavleen Suri

Just noticed shanling tws on aliexp for 79 and 89 for the two variants. And i Just ordered sabbat e12 ultras the other day. What do do now . Has anyone in here given these a try yet ??? Do share your thoughts


----------



## vstolpner

Tavleen Suri said:


> Just noticed shanling tws on aliexp for 79 and 89 for the two variants. And i Just ordered sabbat e12 ultras the other day. What do do now . Has anyone in here given these a try yet ??? Do share your thoughts



In the process of reviewing the BA Shanling TWS. First impressions are great. Exclusion of volume control is a little strange but not a dealbreaker for me. Can even get used to the button control scheme (double tap to pause/play, triple tap to skip, and 3s hold to toggle ambient mode). The ambient mode is interesting, still playing with it a bit.

But the sound quality is fantastic! And the case is really nice and FINALLY using USB type-C to charge!


----------



## gazzington

vstolpner said:


> In the process of reviewing the BA Shanling TWS. First impressions are great. Exclusion of volume control is a little strange but not a dealbreaker for me. Can even get used to the button control scheme (double tap to pause/play, triple tap to skip, and 3s hold to toggle ambient mode). The ambient mode is interesting, still playing with it a bit.
> 
> But the sound quality is fantastic! And the case is really nice and FINALLY using USB type-C to charge!


Which ones do you have, the balanced or dynamic?


----------



## vstolpner

gazzington said:


> Which ones do you have, the balanced or dynamic?



The BA - balanced armature


----------



## gazzington

vstolpner said:


> The BA - balanced armature


Hmm wondering which ones to get


----------



## Tavleen Suri

gazzington said:


> Hmm wondering which ones to get


Remember reading someplace that one variant would be for bass lovers and other would have a more balanced sound....will try and find the source


----------



## hifi80sman

Tavleen Suri said:


> Remember reading someplace that one variant would be for bass lovers and other would have a more balanced sound....will try and find the source


Typically, if you want a more flat and balanced response, then BA is the way to go.  A traditional Dynamic Driver will almost always give you more bass.  I prefer Dynamic to BA, but I'm in the mood sometimes for a good BA.


----------



## hifi80sman (Sep 23, 2019)

The 1More Stylish TWS are on sale right now for $69 (30% off).  I actually picked them up yesterday at 20% off, but I sent an email to 1More to see if they will refund me the difference.  So far, liking them.

PROS
-  Nice, deep bass response.  A little wider than it is round, but enjoyable for me.
-  Soundstage is good for an IEM design.  Slight, very slight, "arena" effect, not by DSP, rather acoustic design.  Take this with a grain of salt, however, as this is dependent on each person's ear and the manner in which the sound waves bounce around.  There are some TWS' that people indicate have a great soundstage, yet I don't hear it, and vice versa.
-  Well matched drivers to my ears (amplitude & frequency response).
-  Very comfortable.
-  Nice tactile feedback from physical buttons on the back side of the earbuds, so there is no pressure when using them, as there is with physical buttons on the earbud face.
-  Mic for calls works great.  Used them for a few meetings today and no complaints.
-  Great 6.5 hour battery that is as advertised (I usually listen around 40% volume).

CONS
-  No volume control.
-  Micro USB.
-  Warm with a slight dark tilt, but not much.  Those that like a bright or sparkling sound will probably not like these.  Not for purists.
-  Noise isolation is only OK (see below).  Passable, but would not recommend for those needing solid isolation.
-  Stick out a bit, but not even close to as bad as the Bose SSF.  This design exposes more of the ear and likely is why isolation is not great.


----------



## vstolpner

gazzington said:


> Hmm wondering which ones to get





Tavleen Suri said:


> Remember reading someplace that one variant would be for bass lovers and other would have a more balanced sound....will try and find the source





hifi80sman said:


> Typically, if you want a more flat and balanced response, then BA is the way to go.  A traditional Dynamic Driver will almost always give you more bass.  I prefer Dynamic to BA, but I'm in the mood sometimes for a good BA.



Totally true - BA tends to give you a flatter response but is not capable of delivering very impactful base. BA will also show much more detail in the music and give you better instrument separation. On the BA version I can hear details that are missed on other earphones (fingers moving along strings, details in vocals, etc). This is why I recommend BAs for listening to podcasts, or really anywhere when you want to focus on speech/vocals. Keep in mind that the bass is still there - just doesn't have the same oomph. I think this is why most BA IEMs/TWS are tuned to more neutral/audiophile style sound.

DD are great for more bass - especially one that you feel. But many can be overpowering.

I've not tried the DD version of the Shanling MTW100, but I think that everyone needs to have one good pair of BA IEMs.


----------



## FYLegend

With Samsung Galaxy Note 9 Exynos version, Bluetooth reception seems poor with certain devices.  If I cover the top-left corner where the modem is, it will increase the chances of cut-outs with Astrotec S60 4.2 and to a lesser extent the Jabra 65t. The Sabbat E12 and Earfun Free show the same issue - a stretching or aliasing artifact rather than an outright disconnect, so it's possible they use the same/similar Realtek BT5.0 chip. BE30 UFO and Jabees Firefly Pro are both rock-solid in connection, the Jabees being most consistent of all TWS I've tried on my phone.

My laptop, ASUS Zenbook 15 is even worse and it was especially bad after the 1903 update and the latest intel Bluetooth drivers. It seems to be most noticeable when my hand covers the area left of the touchpad. After a hard reset, the BT issues go away temporarily but come back eventually.



hifi80sman said:


> The 1More Stylish TWS are on sale right now for $69 (30% off).  I actually picked them up yesterday at 20% off, but I sent an email to 1More to see if they will refund me the difference.  So far, liking them.
> 
> PROS
> -  Nice, deep bass response.  A little wider than it is round, but enjoyable for me.
> ...


Keith/Gamesky seemed to be hinting that 1More will release a new TWS soon. Probably that hybrid driver one with type C they announced months ago...


----------



## hifi80sman

FYLegend said:


> Keith/Gamesky seemed to be hinting that 1More will release a new TWS soon. Probably that hybrid driver one with type C they announced months ago...


He's probably on to something.  They've been discounting on and off fairly aggressively for a few now.  Nevertheless, for what they are, I think the 1More Stylish TWS are excellent in the $70-$80 price point.  Definitely one of the top few in its class.


----------



## charleski

Just gave in and ordered the BT20s. The temptation of playing around with different earphones got too great.

 Hearing aids here we go!


----------



## hifi80sman

charleski said:


> Just gave in and ordered the BT20s. The temptation of playing around with different earphones got too great.
> 
> Hearing aids here we go!


Make sure you wear them out in public...all the time.  People will think you're the coolest kid on the block.  Seriously.


----------



## voicemaster

hifi80sman said:


> Make sure you wear them out in public...all the time.  People will think you're the coolest kid on the block.  Seriously.



I do that all the time. Not much s..t given tho.


----------



## FYLegend (Sep 23, 2019)

vstolpner said:


> In the process of reviewing the BA Shanling TWS. First impressions are great. Exclusion of volume control is a little strange but not a dealbreaker for me. Can even get used to the button control scheme (double tap to pause/play, triple tap to skip, and 3s hold to toggle ambient mode). The ambient mode is interesting, still playing with it a bit.
> 
> But the sound quality is fantastic! And the case is really nice and FINALLY using USB type-C to charge!


Did you test if it is capable of real Type C to C connection (like Sabbat E12 and some of the bigger brands) or is it only Type C to A?

I remember Astrotec saying the S80 v2 is still Type C to A only due to a "tight budget" although I showed them Jianan Li's video. It seems to have Qi charging as well but if it's the same chip as S60, it has terrible compatibility with some 10W chargers... They also hinted their next TWS (either S85 or S90) will be delayed until October...


----------



## Caipirina

Tavleen Suri said:


> Just noticed shanling tws on aliexp for 79 and 89 for the two variants. And i Just ordered sabbat e12 ultras the other day. What do do now . Has anyone in here given these a try yet ??? Do share your thoughts




 

Found one shop last night that offers BOTH models for 79$ ... AND with 2$ store coupon and 6$ (off 60+) select coupon it comes down to 71$ for the BA model! Yeah! ... not so yeah is that it appears they don't even have them yet (14Days processing time!!!) ... this is actually a 99% rated 'top brand' store and I have ordered from them before, but I am not sure if they are on the list of 'we don't talk about them on head-fi', so I will not directly name / link ... 

They also claim those TWS have volume control ... we all know how accurate those claims on the product pages are ...


----------



## chinmie

hifi80sman said:


> Make sure you wear them out in public...all the time.  People will think you're the coolest kid on the block.  Seriously.



i have one instance of a guy sped up walking next to me to take a closer look at it


----------



## charleski

gazzington said:


> Hmm wondering which ones to get


Ok, I'm going to come out with what might be a controversial opinion: BA speakers degrade in normal use.

One of the things about BAs that you seldom hear anyone talk about is the way they degrade when subjected to shock. A naked BA speaker is exceptionally sensitive and 50% of them will die or degrade to a point where they're unusable if dropped a foot onto a hard floor (which amounts to around a 15000g deceleration). You can take a look at page 6 in this application note from Knowles. The main topic of this document is to tout how much the shock resistance improves using Knowles' ferrofluid damping, and that's certainly true, but it comes at a penalty to sonic performance: the 1kHz THD jumps from 0.4% to 2%.

Of course the picture changes substantially once the naked speaker is properly housed, as the surrounding structure and eartip provide a lot of protection and greatly reduce the acceleration it will experience. So dropping your new BA iems on the floor won't kill them. But over the years in daily use they will keep experiencing shocks, and that shock damage accumulates. I've tested BA iems that have been used heavily for a few years and the harmonic distortion on them was nasty even though I'd been fairly careful with them. Obviously dynamic drivers can get damaged as well, but you need to get really enthusiastic to damage a small one.

So if you know you'll probably end up upgrading to the next big thing in a year or so, then a BA is fine. If you want something that will provide consistent performance for several years, then I'd steer clear.


----------



## Caipirina

charleski said:


> Ok, I'm going to come out with what might be a controversial opinion: BA speakers degrade in normal use.
> [...]
> 
> So if you know you'll probably end up upgrading to the next big thing in a year or so, then a BA is fine. If you want something that will provide consistent performance for several years, then I'd steer clear.



Interesting point, first time I hear about that ... but yeah, I am probably the guy in your last sentence ... I mean, honestly, who plans on using their TWS for more than 3 years, possibly hands them down to their heirs? What degrades first will be the batteries, and so far I have not seen any battery replacement service for TWS ... we just keep buying new ... bit sad what trash that creates ...


----------



## vstolpner

FYLegend said:


> Did you test if it is capable of real Type C to C connection (like Sabbat E12 and some of the bigger brands) or is it only Type C to A?
> 
> I remember Astrotec saying the S80 v2 is still Type C to A only due to a "tight budget" although I showed them Jianan Li's video. It seems to have Qi charging as well but if it's the same chip as S60, it has terrible compatibility with some 10W chargers... They also hinted their next TWS (either S85 or S90) will be delayed until October...



I don't actually have a type C charger... Only A-to-C... :-/

I'll give it a test on the couple Qi chargers I have.

PS: yes, I know how that sounds given my stance on lack of type-C on earphones...


----------



## vstolpner

charleski said:


> Ok, I'm going to come out with what might be a controversial opinion: BA speakers degrade in normal use.
> 
> One of the things about BAs that you seldom hear anyone talk about is the way they degrade when subjected to shock. A naked BA speaker is exceptionally sensitive and 50% of them will die or degrade to a point where they're unusable if dropped a foot onto a hard floor (which amounts to around a 15000g deceleration). You can take a look at page 6 in this application note from Knowles. The main topic of this document is to tout how much the shock resistance improves using Knowles' ferrofluid damping, and that's certainly true, but it comes at a penalty to sonic performance: the 1kHz THD jumps from 0.4% to 2%.
> 
> ...





Caipirina said:


> Interesting point, first time I hear about that ... but yeah, I am probably the guy in your last sentence ... I mean, honestly, who plans on using their TWS for more than 3 years, possibly hands them down to their heirs? What degrades first will be the batteries, and so far I have not seen any battery replacement service for TWS ... we just keep buying new ... bit sad what trash that creates ...




I've used my UE SuperFi IEMs for what must be over a decade and have noticed nothing of the sort... I actually have two pairs and both sound identical even though one has been used and abused..... That does go a lot to the point of housing and such, but still, I don't think that's going to be an issue for most people considering I'm really not that careful with the stuff...

Also, I think many use cases don't need 5-12 hours of continuous use, so even if battery degrades by 75% I think most will find it just fine for their use...


----------



## chinmie

seen this on my local forum: KZ E10, rumored to have hybrid 1DD+4BA configuration, with APTX support. i don't know when it would come out


----------



## vstolpner

chinmie said:


> seen this on my local forum: KZ E10, rumored to have hybrid 1DD+4BA configuration, with APTX support. i don't know when it would come out



I'm betting it's their answer to the BT20 along with a ZS10 bundle... Probably a $20 premium in the ZS10 alone....

Wonder if I'll be right!


----------



## vstolpner

FYLegend said:


> Did you test if it is capable of real Type C to C connection (like Sabbat E12 and some of the bigger brands) or is it only Type C to A?
> 
> I remember Astrotec saying the S80 v2 is still Type C to A only due to a "tight budget" although I showed them Jianan Li's video. It seems to have Qi charging as well but if it's the same chip as S60, it has terrible compatibility with some 10W chargers... They also hinted their next TWS (either S85 or S90) will be delayed until October...



1 out of 2 of my Qi chargers worked... The 10W was drawing 4.93V at 0.51A (about 2.5W), whereas my 15W charger would work for 30 seconds and then stop with an error light.


----------



## Caipirina

chinmie said:


> seen this on my local forum: KZ E10, rumored to have hybrid 1DD+4BA configuration, with APTX support. i don't know when it would come out



ooooh, meeee likeyyy


----------



## Caipirina

KZ just made it official on Twitter:

 

 

I know I will order as soon as available ...   just take my money! I am such a sucker for KZ !!!


----------



## gazzington

These look good


----------



## vstolpner

Caipirina said:


> KZ just made it official on Twitter:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I'm curious how much they'll want for these!!

Anyone have any experience with KZ ZS10 and BT20 combo?


----------



## Caipirina (Sep 24, 2019)

vstolpner said:


> I'm curious how much they'll want for these!!
> 
> Anyone have any experience with KZ ZS10 and BT20 combo?



I guestimate 79$ and that might not even include a charging box.

kz zs10 pro & spinfit & BT20: very smooth! Very nice combo!!!  (I skipped the regular zs10)


----------



## C_Lindbergh

Caipirina said:


> KZ just made it official on Twitter:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Unpopular opinion... I doubt ill buy these for 2 reasons

1) I usually don't care about aesthetics, but at the same time i really hate the "hearing aid" looks. 
2) The case should be much bulkier in terms of actual size (not weight) compared to a true wireless case.


----------



## Caipirina

C_Lindbergh said:


> Unpopular opinion... I doubt ill buy these for 2 reasons
> 
> 1) I usually don't care about aesthetics, but at the same time i really hate the "hearing aid" looks.
> 2) The case should be much bulkier in terms of actual size (not weight) compared to a true wireless case.



Totally get your reasoning ... if I was on the lookout for i.e. running / work-out (or even just commute) buds, I don't think these would fit the bill. They don't scream IPX rating .. and yes, bulk is a factor (hello, Powerbeats Pro   ) ...  let's see what the final package will look like .. 

I know I would probably get the same sonic feel with the BT20 and attach them to any of my 1DD4BA ... but hey, those E10 look cool  

if ONLY they avoid the volume hump f'up this time around ...


----------



## de51red

Another contender from TRN

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000203320254.html

Interesting package with hybrid DD+BA, AptX, Qualcomm QC3020, touch control, IPX5. Not sure if it supports USB-C..


----------



## Caipirina

de51red said:


> Another contender from TRN
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000203320254.html
> 
> Interesting package with hybrid DD+BA, AptX, Qualcomm QC3020, touch control, IPX5. Not sure if it supports USB-C..



Wow, how did you find this I wonder?   Seems only one store has it so far (and if I am not mistaken it is one of the ones not to be named here   ) 

Interesting specs, though the shape of the buds does not fully convince me ... and the box looks utterly generic ... I think in that department for 42$ KZ offered a bit more 'thrills' ...


----------



## de51red

Caipirina said:


> Wow, how did you find this I wonder?   Seems only one store has it so far (and if I am not mistaken it is one of the ones not to be named here   )
> 
> Interesting specs, though the shape of the buds does not fully convince me ... and the box looks utterly generic ... I think in that department for 42$ KZ offered a bit more 'thrills' ...


Ears are getting itchy so been looking for some new pairs!

That aside it's a pretty good deal, it supports SBC & AAC codec too..


----------



## Bartig

de51red said:


> Another contender from TRN
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000203320254.html
> 
> Interesting package with hybrid DD+BA, AptX, Qualcomm QC3020, touch control, IPX5. Not sure if it supports USB-C..


Taking the bait!


----------



## cigarello

Can anyone compare ANbes 359 to Galaxy Buds?


----------



## vstolpner

Bartig said:


> Taking the bait!



Let us know how they are!


----------



## tiamor988

Caipirina said:


> KZ just made it official on Twitter:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Apparently it have 3 different colour.


----------



## clerkpalmer

So will these be AliExpress only for the beginning or will KZ get these over to Amazon US.  Is 10/8 the presale start date or the actual release date?  I need these in my life.


----------



## Caipirina

tiamor988 said:


> Apparently it have 3 different colour.


 Curious they show them only without eartips ...

wanna know price .. and if box or not ...


----------



## Caipirina

vstolpner said:


> Let us know how they are!



He always does  

One of his earliest collective reviews of cheapo TWS started me down this rabbit hole!


----------



## Caipirina (Sep 24, 2019)

Caipirina said:


> Curious they show them only without eartips ...
> 
> wanna know price .. and if box or not ...



OH NO, they have done it again !!!! The RIGHT bud is on the LEFT side !!!

Answering my own question: It's up on AliExpress: but price range is a bit odd .. 59 / 69 / 86 $ ...


----------



## voicemaster

any info of what the battery life will be like?


----------



## Caipirina (Sep 24, 2019)

voicemaster said:


> any info of what the battery life will be like?



just trying to guess what is what. 3-5h? Which does not seem very impressive, but maybe powering those 10 units takes extra power?


----------



## rhsauer (Sep 24, 2019)

I just got an iPhone 11 pro and have noticed that the incoming call quality on earphones is now horrible -- very robotic, metallic sounding -- really very very bad.  Anyone else experiencing the same thing, or do I have a faulty phone?  The call quality otherwise (on the handset) is fine.

Edit:  I've now tried several earphones and the problem exists on all Bluetooth 5 earphones -- so it's certainly not the earphones, it's the phone.  Grrr.

Edit 2:  Apple released iOS 13.1 this afternoon, and I upgraded -- and the problem is now gone! Phew!!


----------



## Luchyres

rhsauer said:


> I just got an iPhone 11 pro and have noticed that the incoming call quality on earphones is now horrible -- very robotic, metallic sounding -- really very very bad.  Anyone else experiencing the same thing, or do I have a faulty phone?  The call quality otherwise (on the handset) is fine.



I'm curious to see where this discussion leads - I have a Blackberry Key2 - and for some reason my call quality is horrendous (similar to what you describe) when calling one particular individual (gf) - she insists everyone else can hear her fine, but for me it is like two packets of foil decided to go to war inside a kickdrum. 

On another note - I, like another user on this forum, recently gave in to try the TRN BT20s (and I got the TFZ No.3 as a two-pin IEM to try them with): 

The TRN BT20s is much smaller and more comfortable than I imagined - and even with a relatively cheap IEM - these things blow most of my TWS out of the water for sound quality and, dare I say it, even comfort/style (I don't mind the hearing aid look vs the frankenstein pop-out and flashing LEDs). 

So, what's the catch? The BT20s is seemingly unusable for call quality - I tested leaving myself a voicemail and it seems the behind the ear mics really struggle to separate my voice from the background and so I sound as though I am under water - and most of my consonant sounds are lost to a muddy warbling. 

Anyone have a different experience with the BT20s? Particularly, anyone have a different experience with the BT20s mic or the Fostex adapters' mic? 

Now this behind the ear thing has be eyeing those KZ's but otherwise I think I'm waiting until something else emerges that has: 

1) Great audio quality leaning toward dark tonality with powerful mid/sub-bass. 
2) Great mic for calls.
3) 4+ hrs battery life.
4) Ideally some water resistance (plan to move where it rains a lot/daily). 

Some of you fine gentleman are doing all the testing of the ChiFi for me - so let me know what new gems arise and I'll be on the lookout for the KZ E10 thing, the MW07+ and Go, and anything else toward the top of the line for SQ and calls (and no, I don't want the 65t for calls). lol

Great time to be in the hunt.


----------



## hifi80sman

rhsauer said:


> I just got an iPhone 11 pro and have noticed that the incoming call quality on earphones is now horrible -- very robotic, metallic sounding -- really very very bad.  Anyone else experiencing the same thing, or do I have a faulty phone?  The call quality otherwise (on the handset) is fine.


When you say incoming calls on earphones, do you mean over Bluetooth or the lightning port the stock wired earbuds use?


----------



## rhsauer

hifi80sman said:


> When you say incoming calls on earphones, do you mean over Bluetooth or the lightning port the stock wired earbuds use?



I mean specifically over Bluetooth 5 TWEs


----------



## clerkpalmer

Caipirina said:


> OH NO, they have done it again !!!! The RIGHT bud is on the LEFT side !!!
> 
> Answering my own question: It's up on AliExpress: but price range is a bit odd .. 59 / 69 / 86 $ ...



Ordered mine in grey.  ETA 10/17. Happy day.


----------



## AtariPrime (Sep 24, 2019)

Question:

I am trying to find the right wireless earbuds for me.  I prefer them to be small, with good sound, and good battery life.  Also, I don't believe in Chi-fi, so sticking with known brands, which ones would you get?  The Sony WF-1000XM3 has great sound but is out because they are too big.  Same goes for the M&D MW07, Sennheiser Momentum, Klipsch T5, Audio-Technica ATH-CKS5TW, and Cambridge Audio Melomania.  The Jabra 75t is out because of bad sound quality.  And the Rowkin Bit, Libratone Track+, and Earin M2 are out because of poor battery life.

At the end of my search I seem to arrive at the Creative Outlier Gold.  It has very good sound (not the best but very good), a 14 hr battery, it is fairly small compared to most of the competition, and as a bonus it has a good price at $99.

So, if small, good sound quality, and great battery life are the main concerns, is there a better choice than the Creative Outlier Gold?


----------



## clerkpalmer

AtariPrime said:


> So, if small, good sound quality, and great battery life are the main concerns, is there a better choice than the Creative Outlier Gold?



Seems like a good choice.  Perhaps B&O E8 would be an option.  As an aside, I - like you - used to be a nonbeliever in chi-fi but I have changed my mind.  There is a ton of value in the chi-fi space.  And all the innovation is occurring there.  So I wouldn't just write it off - keep an open mind.


----------



## Tavleen Suri

Has anyone here tried both the sabbat e12 and tranya t3 ?? Which one would you say has more thumping bass ?? My brother wants one for the gym that is reasonably loud and has gr8 bass even if it gets a lil overpowering


----------



## AtariPrime

clerkpalmer said:


> Seems like a good choice.  Perhaps B&O E8 would be an option.  As an aside, I - like you - used to be a nonbeliever in chi-fi but I have changed my mind.  There is a ton of value in the chi-fi space.  And all the innovation is occurring there.  So I wouldn't just write it off - keep an open mind.



I don't write it off because I assume that they are all terrible, I write it if because most seem to be shopping there for a 'good value'.  I'm sure there a few diamonds in the chi-fi space, but most of it is pure crap, even some of the models that are constantly talked about here. I don't care about a good value, I just want something great.  If I could get the size of the Earin M2, with the battery of the Creative Outlier Gold, and the sound of the 1000XM3, I would pay a $1,000 for that in a hearbeat.


----------



## vstolpner

Tavleen Suri said:


> Has anyone here tried both the sabbat e12 and tranya t3 ?? Which one would you say has more thumping bass ?? My brother wants one for the gym that is reasonably loud and has gr8 bass even if it gets a lil overpowering



I've not tried the E12, but the T3's have plenty of bass but it never gets overpowering. If you want a true beater TWS with a ton of bass, try the Tiso i4 - they do get overpowering in the bass department. The benefit is the i4 are dirt cheap so you won't feel bad if you lose them / destroy them.

As for volume - IMO they all go plenty loud enough to cause hearing damage, so I wouldn't worry too much about that. I think the i4's do go a little louder, but I'll not really willing to put either to the test in my ears


----------



## vstolpner

AtariPrime said:


> I don't write it off because I assume that they are all terrible, I write it if because most seem to be shopping there for a 'good value'.  I'm sure there a few diamonds in the chi-fi space, but most of it is pure crap, even some of the models that are constantly talked about here. I don't care about a good value, I just want something great.  If I could get the size of the Earin M2, with the battery of the Creative Outlier Gold, and the sound of the 1000XM3, I would pay a $1,000 for that in a hearbeat.



Everyone here enjoys good quality music - there are very few truly crappy TWS, and most of the ones discussed here have their own unique sound profile (which is the same for the $200+ TWS club too). I have a couple that I swap between for different reasons... Feeling like thumping bass? I go for the Tranya T3. Feeling like listening to mellow Jazz or classical or just want to focus on the vocals? I go for the Shanling MTW100 with the BA drivers. Etc... There's always choice in this space and it won't cost you an arm and a leg.

And if all you want is the absolute best sound you can get from a pair of TWS.... Then go for the TRN BT20/BT20s and add in your own IEMs. This pairing will give you better sound than any of the "big boys" can hope to achieve.


----------



## Caipirina

clerkpalmer said:


> Ordered mine in grey.  ETA 10/17. Happy day.


Starear Audio? And paying extra for 3 day shipping?


----------



## jant71

All about the KZ but TRN has this one, T200...









Anyone order??


----------



## Bartig

rhsauer said:


> I just got an iPhone 11 pro and have noticed that the incoming call quality on earphones is now horrible -- very robotic, metallic sounding -- really very very bad.  Anyone else experiencing the same thing, or do I have a faulty phone?  The call quality otherwise (on the handset) is fine.
> 
> Edit:  I've now tried several earphones and the problem exists on all Bluetooth 5 earphones -- so it's certainly not the earphones, it's the phone.  Grrr.


Are you serious?! WHAT?! What phone did you have before?



Tavleen Suri said:


> Has anyone here tried both the sabbat e12 and tranya t3 ?? Which one would you say has more thumping bass ?? My brother wants one for the gym that is reasonably loud and has gr8 bass even if it gets a lil overpowering


The Tranya! And it offers a great, engaging soundstage over the big fat bass as well.



jant71 said:


> All about the KZ but TRN has this one, T200...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yes, me.


----------



## rhsauer (Sep 24, 2019)

Bartig said:


> Are you serious?! WHAT?! What phone did you have before?
> 
> 
> The Tranya! And it offers a great, engaging soundstage over the big fat bass as well.
> ...



Yes, I'm serious.  I had an iPhone Xs Max and I upgraded to the 11 Pro Max (facilitating a lot of hand-me downs among extended family members).  The Xs Max worked fine, but the 11 Pro Max has incredibly bad/unusable incoming call quality over TWEs.  I've checked on several TWEs.  Right now I'm upgrading to iOS 13.1, which was just released.  We'll see if that fixes anything.  (I had previously rebooted, reset network settings, and reset to factory defaults -- all without any improvement.)  The problem is either in the OS, in the design of the phone, or in my specific headset.  If upgrading to 13.1 doesn't help, the next step is to exchange the phone.

Edit:  The problem resolved when I upgraded the phone to iOS 13.1.  Phew.


----------



## clerkpalmer

vstolpner said:


> And if all you want is the absolute best sound you can get from a pair of TWS.... Then go for the TRN BT20/BT20s and add in your own IEMs. This pairing will give you better sound than any of the "big boys" can hope to achieve.



This 1000 times over.  But he/she wanted small size and good call quality so trn is out.


----------



## hifi80sman

AtariPrime said:


> Question:
> 
> I am trying to find the right wireless earbuds for me.  I prefer them to be small, with good sound, and good battery life.  Also, I don't believe in Chi-fi, so sticking with known brands, which ones would you get?  The Sony WF-1000XM3 has great sound but is out because they are too big.  Same goes for the M&D MW07, Sennheiser Momentum, Klipsch T5, Audio-Technica ATH-CKS5TW, and Cambridge Audio Melomania.  The Jabra 75t is out because of bad sound quality.  And the Rowkin Bit, Libratone Track+, and Earin M2 are out because of poor battery life.
> 
> ...


Creative Outlier Gold is a good choice.  I have them and love them.  No complaints, except for maybe inclusion of touch controls.  Other than that, they are excellent, especially at for the price.


----------



## webvan

jant71 said:


> All about the KZ but TRN has this one, T200...
> 
> 
> 
> ...



39€ on AE, could be interesting. It seems to have MW07 type winglets.


----------



## Mouseman

Caipirina said:


> OH NO, they have done it again !!!! The RIGHT bud is on the LEFT side !!!
> 
> Answering my own question: It's up on AliExpress: but price range is a bit odd .. 59 / 69 / 86 $ ...


I don't see anywhere that it's a "Public Beta".


----------



## HiFlight

Bartig said:


> Taking the bait!


Took the bait!!


----------



## blomman77

Me too!


HiFlight said:


> Took the bait!!


----------



## HiFlight

vstolpner said:


> Let us know how they are!


Will do.  Usually takes about 2 weeks from there to here.


----------



## tlau1125

Caipirina said:


> just trying to guess what is what. 3-5h? Which does not seem very impressive, but maybe powering those 10 units takes extra power?


you are correct, 3-5h refers to the running time of the earpieces themselves.  The other possible reason for the short running time is the small battery capacity on the earpieces: 30mA.  I remember seeing 50mA for some other TWSes.


----------



## lushblush

tiamor988 said:


> Apparently it have 3 different colour.



these look like hearing aids...

and i want them now! the 3-5hr battery life doesn't sound very good though, damn.


----------



## hifi80sman

jant71 said:


> All about the KZ but TRN has this one, T200...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


These look very compelling.  $43 with $2 coupon from AE right now.  I'll probably wait for some feedback, because returning is a Beeeaaatch.


----------



## Slater

lushblush said:


> these look like hearing aids...
> 
> and i want them now! the 3-5hr battery life doesn't sound very good though, damn.



10 drivers takes some juice to drive. Sound was clearly a priority over max battery life.

Maybe some day we’ll have graphene batteries or even tiny fission batteries that last indefinitely. Until then, 3-5 hours is going to have to be good enough lol


----------



## jant71 (Sep 24, 2019)

Slater said:


> 10 drivers takes some juice to drive. Sound was clearly a priority over max battery life.
> 
> Maybe some day we’ll have graphene batteries or even tiny fission batteries that last indefinitely. Until then, 3-5 hours is going to have to be good enough lol



Sounds like just fitting everything in was the deal. No reason to put 30mah in there. They just had to get to that "10" number cause driver count is what sells for them.


----------



## willyk

hifi80sman said:


> These look very compelling.  $43 with $2 coupon from AE right now.  I'll probably wait for some feedback, because returning is a Beeeaaatch.



Ditto.


----------



## hifi80sman

lushblush said:


> these look like hearing aids...
> 
> and i want them now! the 3-5hr battery life doesn't sound very good though, damn.


For what they are, I think they look pretty sleek.  3 to 5 hours is a pretty wide range, likely due to the number of drivers, so each volume adjustment will affect battery by a greater factor than a standard single DD.  That being said, the opposite is true as well, so if you're listening to them around 40% or less, I'd venture to guess you'd be on the 5 hours side.


----------



## tlau1125

Slater said:


> 10 drivers takes some juice to drive. Sound was clearly a priority over max battery life.
> 
> Maybe some day we’ll have graphene batteries or even tiny fission batteries that last indefinitely. Until then, 3-5 hours is going to have to be good enough lol


According to https://raingrande.com/hashtag/kze10 it's 5 drivers per side


----------



## voicemaster

jant71 said:


> Sounds like just fitting everything in was the deal. No reason to put 30mah in there. They just had to get to that "10" number cause driver count is what sells for them.



Knowing KZ, they come out with a pretty dope stuffs as of late. And also, I believe they are one of the few company that is crazy enough to do risky move.


----------



## voicemaster

tlau1125 said:


> According to https://raingrande.com/hashtag/kze10 it's 5 drivers per side


Yea its 5 drivers per side hence 10 drivers total.


----------



## Caipirina

tlau1125 said:


> you are correct, 3-5h refers to the running time of the earpieces themselves.  The other possible reason for the short running time is the small battery capacity on the earpieces: 30mA.  I remember seeing 50mA for some other TWSes.





tlau1125 said:


> According to https://raingrande.com/hashtag/kze10 it's 5 drivers per side



yep, for a total of 10


----------



## Caipirina (Sep 24, 2019)

bit confused... there’s (_*was*_) now a 4th shop listing them (and yey! 2$ off 49$ coupon!) ... but their product image shows a black / silver model ...

(EDIT: 5 minutes later: "_*Sorry, this item is no longer available*_!")

Actually liking THIS combo best ... but I think that was a first prototype from the very first images.


----------



## d3myz

webvan said:


> Thanks, yes I'm quite happy with the Anbes 359 although I'm still experimenting with tips. Right now I'm using the old Sony+Foam tips and they isolate very well but can "plug" my ears depending on the way I insert them. I'll give the Tiso i4 a pass then !


I love my Tiso's! and Tips make a big difference for me. Wide boar like the JVC spinfits work best to separate some of that mid bass to sub bass in the Tiso.


----------



## d3myz

hifi80sman said:


> The 1More Stylish TWS are on sale right now for $69 (30% off).  I actually picked them up yesterday at 20% off, but I sent an email to 1More to see if they will refund me the difference.  So far, liking them.
> 
> PROS
> -  Nice, deep bass response.  A little wider than it is round, but enjoyable for me.
> ...




Brotha, I'll practically give you mine! I've used them like 4x They are so muddy to me. Name your price, seriously I need them gone.


----------



## d3myz

Caipirina said:


> Curious they show them only without eartips ...
> 
> wanna know price .. and if box or not ...


And if you get only one earpiece OR you get two lefts


----------



## webvan

d3myz said:


> I love my Tiso's! and Tips make a big difference for me. Wide boar like the JVC spinfits work best to separate some of that mid bass to sub bass in the Tiso.


Thanks for the info, I'm not familiar with the JVC spinfits though, I have the SpinFit CP100. I also have some Whirlwind and I'd say that these are pretty good at "taming" excessive bass.


----------



## Dcell7

webvan said:


> Thanks for the info, I'm not familiar with the JVC spinfits though, I have the SpinFit CP100. I also have some Whirlwind and I'd say that these are pretty good at "taming" excessive bass.


@d3myz you mean JVC Spiral Dots ? Spinfits are another brand/other kind of tips.


----------



## BobJS

Slater said:


> 10 drivers takes some juice to drive. Sound was clearly a priority over max battery life.
> 
> Maybe some day we’ll have graphene batteries or even tiny fission batteries that last indefinitely. Until then, 3-5 hours is going to have to be good enough lol




Because when we talk "fission batteries", I think, Yes, Please, may I stick them in my ears?


----------



## charleski

tiamor988 said:


> Apparently it have 3 different colour.



Looking at the full listing on their store shows this picture:






All the components seem to be in the earpiece itself (i.e very different to the BT20s). Is the yellow-and-white box the battery? (It looks like a big SMD capacitor.) Or is the battery in the earhook? If so, wouldn't it be large enough to provide better life? Are they routing the antenna through the earhook? The size and shape of the coupling between the earhook and the main body suggests that there's a standard KZ two-pin connector in there. Maybe when they ship them out someone can find out the answers.



AtariPrime said:


> I don't write it off because I assume that they are all terrible, I write it if because most seem to be shopping there for a 'good value'.  I'm sure there a few diamonds in the chi-fi space, but most of it is pure crap, even some of the models that are constantly talked about here.


There's a hell of a lot of stuff coming from established Western manufacturers that's pure crap as well. I could point to several of the big names that make some nice TOTL gear, but have no qualms about trading on their reputation and release garbage at midrange and lower price points. The rise of ChiFi over the past decade is easily the most important development in headphones for a long time.

The one thing you do get with Western manufacturers is support, since you're not going to get warranty repairs from most ChiFi vendors. That's worth considering, especially if you're buying something for several hundred bucks. But it's the only real advantage they offer.


----------



## Caipirina

clerkpalmer said:


> Ordered mine in grey.  ETA 10/17. Happy day.



Aaaaaaaaand I caved ... (that did not take long) ... I have to admit that this 'chasing for best coupon option" really triggers me .. and now I am getting them for 54.01$, including some extra 'free' resin case that I had to add to keep over the 60$ limit to apply 6$ in select coupons   Yeah!


----------



## Caipirina (Sep 25, 2019)

charleski said:


> All the components seem to be in the earpiece itself (i.e very different to the BT20s). Is the yellow-and-white box the battery? (It looks like a big SMD capacitor.) Or is the battery in the earhook? If so, wouldn't it be large enough to provide better life? Are they routing the antenna through the earhook? The size and shape of the coupling between the earhook and the main body suggests that there's a standard KZ two-pin connector in there. Maybe when they ship them out someone can find out the answers.



Would be hilarious if it turns out that the earhooks have zero tech in them at all ... they are just there for looks and more stable wear ...    I was guessing that the battery was in there, but smaller (as the BT20 are rather bulky) ...  but would make sense that that yellow brick is the battery, right where the triple contacts are ... 

or maybe just antennae / microphone?

 

Can't wait to hear God class 2.0 when it comes out eventually


----------



## Mouseman

I don't see anywhere that it has AAC -- can that really be true? I would love to spend more of my money and add another KZ to my collection, but I'm not going to deal with only SBC, and I don't use APT-X.


----------



## clerkpalmer

Mouseman said:


> I don't see anywhere that it has AAC -- can that really be true? I would love to spend more of my money and add another KZ to my collection, but I'm not going to deal with only SBC, and I don't use APT-X.


My guess is they do AAC. Most tw that do aptx do AAC. If you google the chipset you will have your answer. The prior kz tw does AAC.


----------



## d3myz

Dcell7 said:


> @d3myz you mean JVC Spiral Dots ? Spinfits are another brand/other kind of tips.


Sorry, typo. They are the JVC Spiral dots.


----------



## Mouseman

clerkpalmer said:


> My guess is they do AAC. Most tw that do aptx do AAC. If you google the chipset you will have your answer. The prior kz tw does AAC.


That's what I figured, but I find it curious that they don't come right out and say it (they do have God mode, though). I don't understand how some of these chipsets have features that the companies don't use, like volume controls. I guess all of the discussion about that lately made me wonder about AAC on these.


----------



## clerkpalmer

Mouseman said:


> That's what I figured, but I find it curious that they don't come right out and say it (they do have God mode, though). I don't understand how some of these chipsets have features that the companies don't use, like volume controls. I guess all of the discussion about that lately made me wonder about AAC on these.



Seems like AAC is almost a given at this point. Rha didn't even know their true connect did AAC. We all here figured it out first.


----------



## Bartig

Gotta say, Whizzer has a few of the most original wireless earphones designs...


----------



## Slater

tlau1125 said:


> According to https://raingrande.com/hashtag/kze10 it's 5 drivers per side



Yes, 5 per side for a total of 10 drivers.


----------



## Slater

clerkpalmer said:


> Rha didn't even know their true connect did AAC. We all here figured it out first.



Haha, same with TRN and the BT20!

TRN specifically said it didn’t do AAC, but it does.


----------



## vstolpner (Sep 25, 2019)

Bartig said:


> Gotta say, Whizzer has a few of the most original wireless earphones designs...



Those remind me of these egg candies you get on Easter! Lol


----------



## Caipirina

Bartig said:


> Gotta say, Whizzer has a few of the most original wireless earphones designs...



Those pebble looking ones have been on my trigger list for a while ... but not sure about the ergonomics of the buds themselves, looks like the nozzle part just sticks out too 'straight' ... i had that with those weird 'UMI' tws I reviewed briefly a few months ago ...  looking fwd to your usual reviews!


----------



## vstolpner (Sep 25, 2019)

Looks like Xiaomi has a new set of TWS... AirPods style this time






https://www.gizmochina.com/2019/09/...ooth-earphones-goes-official-for-399-yuan-58/

And already available

https://www.giztop.com/xiaomi-wireless-earphone-air-2.html


----------



## bedlamite

Regarding the KZ E10s, looks like the long bit behind the ear is just for aesthetics? I thought they one-upped TRN's BT20s by massively slimming down the battery compartment but the E10s come in a charging case, bleh. Don't want to mess with charging cases. 

Also, about the BT20's "hearing-aid" styling, don't real hearing aids come in clear plastic?


----------



## mattedialdoc

Hey guys,
I’m looking at the TWS options on AliExpress. I’ve only bought thus far from Amazon US. 
Are there particular sellers/shops within AliExpress that are more trustworthy, or some to avoid?
Thanks!


----------



## voicemaster

bedlamite said:


> Regarding the KZ E10s, looks like the long bit behind the ear is just for aesthetics? I thought they one-upped TRN's BT20s by massively slimming down the battery compartment but the E10s come in a charging case, bleh. Don't want to mess with charging cases.
> 
> Also, about the BT20's "hearing-aid" styling, don't real hearing aids come in clear plastic?



Well it is a "hearing aid" alright make you hear your music better ;D


----------



## webvan

Caipirina said:


> Those pebble looking ones have been on my trigger list for a while ... but not sure about the ergonomics of the buds themselves, looks like the nozzle part just sticks out too 'straight' ... i had that with those weird 'UMI' tws I reviewed briefly a few months ago ...  looking fwd to your usual reviews!


The red ones look ilke the Anbes 359, no ?


----------



## hifi80sman

d3myz said:


> Brotha, I'll practically give you mine! I've used them like 4x They are so muddy to me. Name your price, seriously I need them gone.


Yep, they lean a little dark, a bit similar to Sennheiser's tuning on some of their Momentum stuff, especially the Momentum Over Ear Wireless.  However, they don't have as sharp of a 8-10k spike, so they may sound a little on the dark side.  However, I would not say they are muffled, as I associate that with a universal dampening of all frequencies.  They are defined in areas they were tuned to be, if that makes any sense.

That being said, they are very comfortable with no suction effect, so I can wear them for extended periods of time.  I do enjoy their smooth, relaxed, warm sound.  I just wish you did too!


----------



## hifi80sman

clerkpalmer said:


> Seems like AAC is almost a given at this point. Rha didn't even know their true connect did AAC. We all here figured it out first.


I find a lot of the Chi-Fi stuff also supports AAC.  Most of them never even say it, but once I receive, boom, AAC support.  If there is a pair on Amazon, I'll ask and see what the seller says, and yes, sometimes they are wrong, but I'd say more than 3/4 of the time they're correct.

Still don't know why some companies, especially well regarded name-brand ones, don't advertise all the specs.  Maybe it doesn't need to be on the cover, but at least put it on the box somewhere.


----------



## AtariPrime

charleski said:


> Looking at the full listing on their store shows this picture:
> 
> All the components seem to be in the earpiece itself (i.e very different to the BT20s). Is the yellow-and-white box the battery? (It looks like a big SMD capacitor.) Or is the battery in the earhook? If so, wouldn't it be large enough to provide better life? Are they routing the antenna through the earhook? The size and shape of the coupling between the earhook and the main body suggests that there's a standard KZ two-pin connector in there. Maybe when they ship them out someone can find out the answers.
> 
> ...



I would argue there hasn't been a rise in Chi-fi.  It is only in specialized forums like this that Chi-fi gets any attention.  If Kotaku, Cnet, Rizknows, Jim's Review Room, and similar aren't reviewing them, they essentially don't exist.  As far as Western manufacturers making crap, sure crap is everywhere but whereas maybe 30% of the name brand stuff is crap, about 90% of the Chi-fi stuff is crap.

Don't fool yourself into thinking any Chi-fi is great, so far I've seen nothing to convince me any of it is 'great'.  Some of it is acceptable at the price point, maybe even good at the price point but so far most of it is the same old same old, cheap parts reassembled in different ways to make a marginal profit.  I don't see any innovation in that.  I can build a car in my garage too, that doesn't make it a Ferrari.


----------



## clerkpalmer

I wonder if amazon will add anything new to the table today. I'm guessing a very consumer oriented airpod competitor but maybe well be pleasantly surprised.


----------



## clerkpalmer

AtariPrime said:


> Don't fool yourself into thinking any Chi-fi is great, so far I've seen nothing to convince me any of it is 'great'.  Some of it is acceptable at the price point, maybe even good at the price point but so far most of it is the same old same old, cheap parts reassembled in different ways to make a marginal profit.  I don't see any innovation in that.  I can build a car in my garage too, that doesn't make it a Ferrari.



I'm going to respectfully disagree with this statment. The bt20 is a legitimately great product. The Kansas kssx is legitimately great.  These are just 2 I'm recently familiar with. I'm sure there are hundreds of additional examples. Just like everything else, do your research.  Some stuff is crap and some isn't. At least when chifi is crap, it only costs a few bucks. When the big boys make crap, youre out real money.


----------



## d3myz

hifi80sman said:


> Yep, they lean a little dark, a bit similar to Sennheiser's tuning on some of their Momentum stuff, especially the Momentum Over Ear Wireless.  However, they don't have as sharp of a 8-10k spike, so they may sound a little on the dark side.  However, I would not say they are muffled, as I associate that with a universal dampening of all frequencies.  They are defined in areas they were tuned to be, if that makes any sense.
> 
> That being said, they are very comfortable with no suction effect, so I can wear them for extended periods of time.  I do enjoy their smooth, relaxed, warm sound.  I just wish you did too!


It's funny, that's exactly as I would describe them, the sound like a stock car stereo set with the EQ's set in the middle When I listen to them I think that there's got to be something holding them back, they just don't sound as alive as the T5 or the 359's. I also am not a fan of the ergonomics, I have to use longer tips to get them to seal in my right ear. I'm listening to them right now, they are definitely very well built and they don't sound like a lot of the the chi-fi crap that I have been testing, but i can definitely appreciate the tuning, I can turn them all the way up with almost anything I play without hurting my ears. I compared them to these Lystar J29's for $21 these will knock your socks off. Granted they have a lot more high end and V shape than the Stylish, but man out of the 8 or so TWS's I tested this week, these really impressed me. funny thing is if you search on amazon by lystar, you can't find them. I also tested the VEATOOL J29's same exact earbud, but the VEATOOL's don't have as much bass or treble. I even ran that burn in playlist from spotify you or someone here sent me until they died and they still didn't' sound as good as the Lystars.


----------



## vstolpner

Lypertek Tevi review.... Seems to really like it.

Funny he refers to the case as a B&O look, but all I can see is the shape of the Mpow T5 case...


----------



## Slater

clerkpalmer said:


> I wonder if amazon will add anything new to the table today. I'm guessing a very consumer oriented airpod competitor but maybe well be pleasantly surprised.



You mean like an Amazon branded earphone?


----------



## clerkpalmer

Slater said:


> You mean like an Amazon branded earphone?


Yes. I believe an Alexa branded tw bud is expected to be announced by amazon today


----------



## d3myz (Sep 25, 2019)

clerkpalmer said:


> I'm going to respectfully disagree with this statment. The bt20 is a legitimately great product. The Kansas kssx is legitimately great.  These are just 2 I'm recently familiar with. I'm sure there are hundreds of additional examples. Just like everything else, do your research.  Some stuff is crap and some isn't. At least when chifi is crap, it only costs a few bucks. When the big boys make crap, youre out real money.



I respectfully second this. Let's consider volume. How many brands and models of Western Manufacturers products are $30-100 and Chi-fi? Let's just say there are 20 Western manufacturers and 30% of their stuff is junk. Then lets say there are 6,000 chi-fi manufacturers and 90% of their stuff is junk. If we do the math there are still a lot more chi-fi units out there that sound better for the money. I've listened to probably 40-50 pairs of Chi-fi TWS' and I'd say 60% them are basic sounding and 30% sound great, 10% Really great. I switched to Chi-Fi because I was tired of bying JBL, Jaybird, SkullCandy, "Western" junk. All these manufacturers make. Difference is that Chi-fi is consistently cheaper and better for the price point then all the Western brands. Sure you have to wade through the detritus and have to have some patience, but IMO it's well worth it. I don't know if you are considering, Sony, Sennheiser, Shure, AKG, Ulitimate Ears (logitech) as western brands, but I am.


----------



## d3myz (Sep 25, 2019)

vstolpner said:


> Lypertek Tevi review.... Seems to really like it.
> 
> Funny he refers to the case as a B&O look, but all I can see is the shape of the Mpow T5 case...



Man, I really want a pair of these. I keep their web page open hoping they will go on sale at some point. I can't justify paying $80 for an upgraded MPOW T5. Anyone know of a deal on them? Just saw the review, This guy says they sound like the momentum.. Hmm. Haven't I read on here that many of you guys aren't a fan of those?


----------



## hifi80sman

d3myz said:


> It's funny, that's exactly as I would describe them, the sound like a stock car stereo set with the EQ's set in the middle When I listen to them I think that there's got to be something holding them back, they just don't sound as alive as the T5 or the 359's. I also am not a fan of the ergonomics, I have to use longer tips to get them to seal in my right ear. I'm listening to them right now, they are definitely very well built and they don't sound like a lot of the the chi-fi crap that I have been testing, but i can definitely appreciate the tuning, I can turn them all the way up with almost anything I play without hurting my ears. I compared them to these Lystar J29's for $21 these will knock your socks off. Granted they have a lot more high end and V shape than the Stylish, but man out of the 8 or so TWS's I tested this week, these really impressed me. funny thing is if you search on amazon by lystar, you can't find them. I also tested the VEATOOL J29's same exact earbud, but the VEATOOL's don't have as much bass or treble. I even ran that burn in playlist from spotify you or someone here sent me until they died and they still didn't' sound as good as the Lystars.


Nice suggestion, I may try out those Lystar J29s.  I enjoy many different sound signatures depending on mood, so I can definitely integrate most into my collection.


----------



## hifi80sman

clerkpalmer said:


> Yes. I believe an Alexa branded tw bud is expected to be announced by amazon today


@clerkpalmer or should I call you @jeffbezos?


----------



## hifi80sman

d3myz said:


> I respectfully second this. Let's consider volume. How many brands and models of Western Manufacturers products are $30-100 and Chi-fi? Let's just say there are 20 Western manufacturers and 30% of their stuff is junk. Then lets say there are 6,000 chi-fi manufacturers and 90% of their stuff is junk. If we do the math there are still a lot more chi-fi units out there that sound better for the money. I've listened to probably 40-50 pairs of Chi-fi TWS' and I'd say 60% them are basic sounding and 30% sound great, some Really great. I switched to Chi-Fi because I was tired of bying JBL, Jaybird, SkullCandy, "Western" junk. All these manufacturers make. Difference is that Chi-fi is consistently cheaper and better for the price point then all the Western brands. Sure you have to wade through the detritus and have to have some patience, but IMO it's well worth it. I don't know if you are considering, Sony, Sennheiser, Shure, AKG, Ulitimate Ears (logitech) as western brands, but I am.


Let's also keep in mind that some Western Companies just contract out to Big China anyway.


----------



## AtariPrime

Anyone know anything about Urbanista or their new Athens model?  At a glance, it seems to push a lot of the right buttons for me.  About all I know beyond the press release is they are a Swedish company and the Athens launches Oct. 1.


----------



## Caipirina

webvan said:


> The red ones look ilke the Anbes 359, no ?



While very interesting in shape, no, this is not the Anbes tear drop shape


----------



## d3myz

hifi80sman said:


> Let's also keep in mind that some Western Companies just contract out to Big China anyway.


I'd say the majority.


----------



## jerboa123 (Sep 25, 2019)

Amazon Echo Buds

On the hardware side, each earbud has two balanced armature drivers. There are also tap gestures: double tap to toggle the Bose noise reduction (true ANC) so you can better hear the outside world, and also tap and hold to access your phone’s regular voice assistant (Siri or Google Assistant).

Amazon promises that the new headphones will offer five hours of battery off a single charge, with up to 20 hours total including the case.

The Echo Buds will cost $129, with preorders starting today. Ship 10/30/19.


----------



## hifi80sman

d3myz said:


> I'd say the majority.


Yep.  Unless you actually have your own _*real *_R&D team with your own manufacturing plants (i.e. Sony, Sennheiser), then most likely you're entering into contracts with some ODM/OEM and picking options off-the-shelf.  Nothing wrong with that, but this does enable us to find better value with _*some *_Chi-Fi units that may use the same parts.  Sometimes name brand is better, sometimes it's not.  Skullcandy comes to mind.  Pretty much never better.


----------



## hifi80sman

jerboa123 said:


> Amazon Echo Buds
> 
> On the hardware side, each earbud has two balanced armature drivers. There are also tap gestures: double tap to toggle the Bose noise reduction (true ANC) so you can better hear the outside world, and also tap and hold to access your phone’s regular voice assistant (Siri or Google Assistant).
> 
> ...


Thanks, Jeff.

Looks like 4 total BA drivers with Bose's ANC tech with ambient mode?  Nice.  Sign me up.


----------



## clerkpalmer

hifi80sman said:


> @clerkpalmer or should I call you @jeffbezos?


I wish. Cool product though. I wonder how they got bose to license the ANC at a retail price way below what bose is going to charge for the ANC ssf?


----------



## jerboa123

hifi80sman said:


> Thanks, Jeff.
> 
> Looks like 4 total BA drivers with Bose's ANC tech with ambient mode?  Nice.  Sign me up.



Just read the description on Amazon (and ordered)... but why in the world would you put in micro-usb at the end of 2019?!?!


----------



## LordToneeus

jerboa123 said:


> Amazon Echo Buds
> 
> On the hardware side, each earbud has two balanced armature drivers. There are also tap gestures: double tap to toggle the Bose noise reduction (true ANC) so you can better hear the outside world, and also tap and hold to access your phone’s regular voice assistant (Siri or Google Assistant).
> 
> ...



Thanks.  Saw this post and pre-ordered within seconds.


----------



## Slater

jerboa123 said:


> Amazon Echo Buds
> 
> On the hardware side, each earbud has two balanced armature drivers.



Since the average Amazon consumer wouldn’t know the difference between a balanced armature and a kosher dill pickle, I predict a large number of review complaints that the low end isn’t up to people’s expectations.


----------



## hifi80sman

Slater said:


> Since the average Amazon consumer wouldn’t know the difference between a balanced armature and a kosher dill pickle, I predict a large number of review complaints that the low end isn’t up to people’s expectations.


Is a kosher dill pickle TWS better than a balanced armature for bass?  Looking to a TWS with some good bass, so let me know which ones have a kosher dill pickle.


----------



## C_Lindbergh (Sep 25, 2019)

Well in terms of features these Amazon Echo Buds seems awesome... But I'll wait a bit in order for people to judge the actual sound quality. Also hope there's an EQ option.

But if they have USB micro B that some fear its a deal breaker, I refuse to bring a freaking extra cable in 2019.

Just a shame that the battery life is on the low end, I really feel that 6 hours is pure minimum, If its UP TO 5  hours battery life, what kind of battery life will there be with the ANC on?


----------



## Slater

hifi80sman said:


> Is a kosher dill pickle TWS better than a balanced armature for bass?  Looking to a TWS with some good bass, so let me know which ones have a kosher dill pickle.



Green Pickle Novelty in-Ear Earbud Headphones

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B071WKZVPC


----------



## clerkpalmer

Echo buds seem like a steal for $129.  Typical amazon subsidy to get their branded products into the market. That's $200 in unneeded TW buds for me this week. Probably need to admit I have a problem.


----------



## Luchyres

I'm going to sit on the fence with the Echo buds - I do not like the increasing presence of voice assistants/monitoring devices in consumer electronics and so, while I don't think the TWS will be invasive like Alexa listening devices - I want to hear great things about call quality and sound quality before I take the dip (esp as I prefer Dynamic to BA for audio that is not a audiobook/podcast. 

Those of you brave souls who already preordered - I'll await your impressions while I await the MW07+ and the recent hybrids I've seen popping up (and I think @hifi80sman ordered to test?). My order/return appetite is diminishing after so many that I just don't love. (Sending back the B530, may sell the Syllable s101 and use the bt20s/TFZno.3 combo for my computer in lieu of the Syllable. 

My main driver is the Nuarl - not because I don't think something better for my purposes can't exist - I just haven't found it yet and the NUARL's are one of the few where I don't get complaints from the other end when using them for calls. 

Thank you all for testing and posting your thoughts - I just can't quit this forum. lol


----------



## hifi80sman

Slater said:


> Green Pickle Novelty in-Ear Earbud Headphones
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/dp/B071WKZVPC


Well played, sir!

MIFO O4 variant without the metal case???
https://www.amazon.com/Bluetooth-Wireless-Breathing-Microphone-Waterproof/dp/B07X1KP12C/


----------



## C_Lindbergh

Edit: F*ck those Amazon Echo Buds...

"Included in the box

Echo Buds, charging case, 3 pairs of ear tips, 3 pairs of wing tips, *micro-USB cable*, and Quick Start Guide."

MICRO USB, in 2019? From a billion dollar company? What freaking joke.


----------



## charleski

AtariPrime said:


> I would argue there hasn't been a rise in Chi-fi.  It is only in specialized forums like this that Chi-fi gets any attention.  If Kotaku, Cnet, Rizknows, Jim's Review Room, and similar aren't reviewing them, they essentially don't exist.  As far as Western manufacturers making crap, sure crap is everywhere but whereas maybe 30% of the name brand stuff is crap, about 90% of the Chi-fi stuff is crap.
> 
> Don't fool yourself into thinking any Chi-fi is great, so far I've seen nothing to convince me any of it is 'great'.  Some of it is acceptable at the price point, maybe even good at the price point but so far most of it is the same old same old, cheap parts reassembled in different ways to make a marginal profit.  I don't see any innovation in that.  I can build a car in my garage too, that doesn't make it a Ferrari.


I'm not sure what Kotaku has to do with HiFi, or CNet for that matter. But OK, you clearly have your prejudices, and it'll be fruitless to try to convince you otherwise. You're the one missing out. If you want to find 'the same old cheap parts reassembled in different ways' you need only look at some of the boutique Western IEM makers who stick them in a fancy box and charge a couple of thousand dollars.


----------



## Blueshound24

jerboa123 said:


> Just read the description on Amazon (and ordered)... but why in the world would you put in micro-usb at the end of 2019?!?!




Maybe because there are way more micro usb devices in use today in the world today than C?


----------



## C_Lindbergh

Blueshound24 said:


> Maybe because there are way more micro usb devices in use today in the world today than C?



With that mindset we would have no progress... Also since what like 2 years almost every new android smartphone has launched with USB C. Even my current mid range phone got it.


----------



## Slater (Sep 25, 2019)

C_Lindbergh said:


> I refuse to bring a freaking extra cable in 2019.



Does it have wireless charging? If so, problem solved.

Or get one of these:


----------



## Yoga15

Hey guys, I've read the last 20 or so pages trying to decide which TWS to buy, couldn't do it, soo.. 
May i ask for a little help from the more experienced?? 
I currently own a KZ ZST, which I use most of the day, I mainly use it at work and  eventhough it sounds great I can't use it for a whole day 'cause it freaking hurts lol

Reading the previous  posts I've narrowed it down to a few choices, if you guys have any other suggestions please bring it up, I would like to keep the price under $80.
I would like the best sound quality and comfort.I can get for this money 

- Shanling MTW100 
- 1more stylish
- TNR T200 (This would be riskier, i couldn't find any review but the price and spec's seem nice)
- MPOW T5 


Thank you in advance


----------



## charleski

hifi80sman said:


> Is a kosher dill pickle TWS better than a balanced armature for bass?  Looking to a TWS with some good bass, so let me know which ones have a kosher dill pickle.


I don't know about pickles, but there's a new breakthrough TWS that doesn't need charging at all. We all need to go green and reduce the amount of energy we're using!


----------



## C_Lindbergh

Slater said:


> Does it have wireless charging? If so, problem solved.



No mention of any wireless charging, not in any article or on the official Amazon web page. 

Meh for me it's a deal breaker I think, I haven't had an Micro USB smartphone since I purchased the LG G6 back in 2016.


----------



## Slater

charleski said:


> I don't know about pickles, but there's a new breakthrough TWS that doesn't need charging at all. We all need to go green and reduce the amount of energy we're using!



Ummm, who would buy that, and for what reason? I think now I’ve seen everything


----------



## vstolpner

Yoga15 said:


> Hey guys, I've read the last 20 or so pages trying to decide which TWS to buy, couldn't do it, soo..
> May i ask for a little help from the more experienced??
> I currently own a KZ ZST, which I use most of the day, I mainly use it at work and  eventhough it sounds great I can't use it for a whole day 'cause it freaking hurts lol
> 
> ...



What kind of sound profile are you going for? 

The TRN T200 are brand new, so not sure what they'll be like, but hybrid IEMs tend to have the best sound quality.
I can personally vouch for Mpow T5 - one of the best out there, and available on Amazon so easy returns if you're not happy.
The Shanling MTW100 BA version has phenomenal sound, but as with all BA-only IEMs - lacks punch in its bass. 

I've reviewed the Mpow and will be posting my Shanling review soon


----------



## Blueshound24 (Sep 25, 2019)

vstolpner said:


> What kind of sound profile are you going for?
> 
> The TRN T200 are brand new, so not sure what they'll be like, but hybrid IEMs tend to have the best sound quality.
> I can personally vouch for Mpow T5 - one of the best out there, and available on Amazon so easy returns if you're not happy.
> ...




If I could jump in here with a quick question, does the Mpow T5 have a warm, rolled off treble sound like HD 650? Or is the treble extended and somewhat bright?

Edit: My preference is for a non-warm signature, leaning to clear mids, non-rolled off treble, and good bass but non-bleeding into the mids.


----------



## wizll (Sep 25, 2019)

https://www.soundcore.com/activities/liberty2series

https://www.engadget.com/2019/09/25/anker-soundcore-wireless-earbuds-liberty/
https://www.androidpolice.com/2019/09/25/anker-soundcore-liberty-2-spirit-2/


----------



## Yoga15

vstolpner said:


> What kind of sound profile are you going for?
> 
> The TRN T200 are brand new, so not sure what they'll be like, but hybrid IEMs tend to have the best sound quality.
> I can personally vouch for Mpow T5 - one of the best out there, and available on Amazon so easy returns if you're not happy.
> ...



I listen mainly to Rap and eletronic, so yeah, bass will be apreciated.
I read your reviews, even considered the Tranya but "overpowered bass" are not what I'm looking for, I'd rather have something balanced


----------



## Blueshound24 (Sep 25, 2019)

Blueshound24 said:


> If I could jump in here with a quick question, does the Mpow T5 have a warm, rolled off treble sound like HD 650? Or is the treble extended and somewhat bright?
> 
> Edit: My preference is for a non-warm signature, leaning to clear mids, non-rolled off treble, and good bass but non-bleeding into the mids.





Ok, this is *definitely* comparing apples to oranges. And I realize the following examples are in many degrees higher priced than the typical TWS.

And I am not good at describing my prefered audio signature, so I will list my preference for IEM's and cans that I have heard. That would be ES Velvet, UE TF10, GR07 BE, Roxanne and U18t.
And re: headphones, favs are TH900, Elear, AH-D7000 and HD700.

So can anyone suggest a TWS that sorta, kinda, maybe leans to one of these signatures?
TIA!


EDIT: And to repeat. I'm not a fan of rolled off treble.


----------



## vstolpner

Blueshound24 said:


> If I could jump in here with a quick question, does the Mpow T5 have a warm, rolled off treble sound like HD 650? Or is the treble extended and somewhat bright?
> 
> Edit: My preference is for a non-warm signature, leaning to clear mids, non-rolled off treble, and good bass but non-bleeding into the mids.





Blueshound24 said:


> Ok, this is *definitely* comparing apples to oranges. And I realize the following examples are in many degrees higher priced than the typical TWS.
> 
> And I am not good at describing my prefered audio signature, so I will list my preference for IEM's and cans that I have heard. That would be ES Velvet, UE TF10, GR07 BE, Roxanne and U18t.
> And re: headphones, favs are TH900, Elear, AH-D7000 and HD700.
> ...



Ok so the Mpow T5 has a nice and bright signature, with crisp and sparkly highs, good amount of mids, and enough bass to give some punch but not roll over into the mids.
I love my UE SuperFi IEMs, and I imagine the TF10's are similar, so for that I would recommend the Shanling MTW100 with the Knowles BA's (review coming).



Yoga15 said:


> I listen mainly to Rap and eletronic, so yeah, bass will be apreciated.
> I read your reviews, even considered the Tranya but "overpowered bass" are not what I'm looking for, I'd rather have something balanced



The Tranya T3's have a really strong bass, but if you enjoy a good amount of bass you won't find them overpowering. The Tranya B530's tone down the bass just a touch and do sound more balanced but still quite warm.

If you want something even more balanced then I would suggest the Mpow T5. These have had really good reviews on here. Their bass isn't as strong as on the Tranya's, but still pretty good. But if you like lots of bass, then maybe try the Tranya's first. All 3 are on Amazon, so can try them all and return what you don't like


----------



## FYLegend

Well my Sabbat E12 driver is all but busted - considering getting either the Ultra or Whizzer B6... Gearbest has the B6 for 67$USD/90$CAD now, not sure if there's another better deal out there... GearVita has Sabbat E12 Ultra for 60$CAD if you use a promo code, but I'm somewhat doubtful about either site as I've heard people say their order gets cancelled or no tracking or whatever...

Tronsmart Spunky Beat: AptX, CVC8.0, USB-C
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/400...chweb0_0,searchweb201602_9,searchweb201603_53


wizll said:


> https://www.soundcore.com/activities/liberty2series
> 
> https://www.engadget.com/2019/09/25/anker-soundcore-wireless-earbuds-liberty/
> https://www.androidpolice.com/2019/09/25/anker-soundcore-liberty-2-spirit-2/


Odd the Liberty 2 doesn't have Qi charging while Liberty Air 2 doesa... No word of an ambient sound mode either...


----------



## hifi80sman

Yoga15 said:


> I listen mainly to Rap and eletronic, so yeah, bass will be apreciated.
> I read your reviews, even considered the Tranya but "overpowered bass" are not what I'm looking for, I'd rather have something balanced


The safest bet is the MPOW T5.  I do enjoy the 1More Stylish, and because of the rolled off treble (mostly low treble), you can push it pretty loud without it getting piercing.  I don't know your budget or returns are a problem for where you're at, so you're probably better off playing it safe with the MPOW T5, which also happens to be the cheapest of the 4.


----------



## Blueshound24 (Sep 25, 2019)

vstolpner said:


> Ok so the Mpow T5 has a nice and bright signature, with crisp and sparkly highs, good amount of mids, and enough bass to give some punch but not roll over into the mids.
> I love my UE SuperFi IEMs, and I imagine the TF10's are similar, so for that I would recommend the Shanling MTW100 with the Knowles BA's (review coming).
> 
> 
> ...




I can't see the model number on this mpow, is this the model you are talking about?


----------



## vstolpner

Blueshound24 said:


> So I can't see the model number on this mpow, so is this the model you are talking about?



That's the one... I believe I have a link in my review too... Don't remember anymore


----------



## hifi80sman

Blueshound24 said:


> So I can't see the model number on this mpow, so is this the model you are talking about?


Yep, that's the one.  I also see you have 11 items in your cart.  Hopefully, it's a combination of headphones, TWS', and maybe an AMP/DAC or 2.


----------



## Luchyres (Sep 25, 2019)

Yoga15 said:


> I listen mainly to Rap and eletronic, so yeah, bass will be apreciated.
> I read your reviews, even considered the Tranya but "overpowered bass" are not what I'm looking for, I'd rather have something balanced



I have a similar sound pref and have ended up with the Nuarl NT01AX which has my fav sound so far - though I do eq it a bit on the phone.

I'm most excited for some of the hybrids coming out (trn200?) And just preordered the anker soundcore liberty 2 pro (circ) that is a hybrid - I need at least one DD for my sound tastes, I've found.

I found the mpow t5 very good, but not for me. The T3 was good but a little rolled off, so not for me.

I'm in the hunt for my #OneandOnlyTrueTWSLove so I'll keep y'all posted on the new Anker (10/8 ship date - ordered on Amazon) Soundcore Liberty 2 Pro True Wireless Earbuds https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00E8BDS60/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_i_Kq.IDbWX4A0GF

USB C and hybrid - I'm interested!

Edit:
Ah, it's @Bartig who bought the trn t200 and who I hope to hear opinions from (esp call quality) before taking the leap and risk an Ali return process. (Heh)


----------



## hifi80sman

Luchyres said:


> I have a similar sound pref and have ended up with the Nuarl NT01AX which has my fav sound so far - though I do eq it a bit on the phone.
> 
> I'm most excited for some of the hybrids coming out (trn200?) And just preordered the anker soundcore liberty 2 pro (circ) that is a hybrid - I need at least one DD for my sound tastes, I've found.
> 
> ...


The Anker Soundcore Liberty 2 Pro look _*very *_compelling.  Give me hybrid over ANC in an IEM design any day, as isolation is generally sufficient.  I was going to wait for the 1000XM3 to be in-store, but per usual Sony poor-supply-to-generate-demand-strategy will backfire and lead many into the arms of other TWS'.  Most normal people don't buy numerous pairs, only us degenerates.


----------



## BigZ12

https://www.forbes.com/sites/marksp...irs-of-true-wireless-earphones-for-under-100/
http://www.hifiheadphones.co.uk/reviews/lypertek-tevi-true-wireless-earphone-review/

I still love mine, and now others compare them to (and says they beat) the Senn' MTW. #Clerkpalmer; maybe they added some Unicorn magic dust after all?


----------



## Luchyres (Sep 25, 2019)

hifi80sman said:


> The Anker Soundcore Liberty 2 Pro look _*very *_compelling.  Give me hybrid over ANC in an IEM design any day, as isolation is generally sufficient.  I was going to wait for the 1000XM3 to be in-store, but per usual Sony poor-supply-to-generate-demand-strategy will backfire and lead many into the arms of other TWS'.  Most normal people don't buy numerous pairs, only us degenerates.




They even look like the XM3, for that matter @hifi80sman .  excited to try them out!

Edit: photo post failed - https://www.cnet.com/pictures/anker-soundcore-liberty-2-pro/


----------



## Yoga15

hifi80sman said:


> The safest bet is the MPOW T5.  I do enjoy the 1More Stylish, and because of the rolled off treble (mostly low treble), you can push it pretty loud without it getting piercing.  I don't know your budget or returns are a problem for where you're at, so you're probably better off playing it safe with the MPOW T5, which also happens to be the cheapest of the 4.


That's exaclty what I'll do, Amazon here in Brazil doesn't offer the same stuff, unfortunately I would't be able to return it as easily as you guys could.
 I'll buy the mpow T5 from AE.

I was more inclined to the MTW, but I'll do as @*vstolpner says, he tested both afterall

Thanks guys*


----------



## vstolpner

Yoga15 said:


> That's exaclty what I'll do, Amazon here in Brazil doesn't offer the same stuff, unfortunately I would't be able to return it as easily as you guys could.
> I'll buy the mpow T5 from AE.
> 
> I was more inclined to the MTW, but I'll do as @*vstolpner says, he tested both afterall
> ...



Glad I could help. Keep in mind I've only tested the BA Shanling... The dynamic driver ones will sound completely different and have the added benefit of ambient mode. But the Mpow T5 are a safe bet right now


----------



## Caipirina

clerkpalmer said:


> I wish. Cool product though. I wonder how they got bose to license the ANC at a retail price way below what bose is going to charge for the ANC ssf?



I have a question regarding those Amazon Echo & the BunnyBuds ... nowhere in the info material it says active noise *cancellation* ... they only say *reduction* ...   i know someone said this would be true ANC ... based on what?


----------



## hifi80sman

Caipirina said:


> I have a question regarding those Amazon Echo & the BunnyBuds ... nowhere in the info material it says active noise *cancellation* ... they only say *reduction* ...   i know someone said this would be true ANC ... based on what?




It's actually branded as "noise reduction", which is likely just a marketing term for weak sauce ANC.


----------



## Caipirina

hifi80sman said:


> It's actually branded as "noise reduction", which is likely just a marketing term for weak sauce ANC.




"... not quite cancellation" " noise ... _almost_ cancelling" he says ... i think THIS is how Bose prevents cannibalizing their future ANC bud sales ...

This level of ANC I get at least out of those Bonola ANC buds ...  

IPX4 ... better than nothing ... no wireless charging, which would have been nice at 129$ ... and why does it have an accelerometer I wonder?

Main kicker will be seeing sound quality reviews ... otherwise not too impressed thus far ...


----------



## mattedialdoc

Yoga15 said:


> That's exaclty what I'll do, Amazon here in Brazil doesn't offer the same stuff, unfortunately I would't be able to return it as easily as you guys could.
> I'll buy the mpow T5 from AE.
> 
> I was more inclined to the MTW, but I'll do as @*vstolpner says, he tested both afterall
> ...



I just sent back the MPOW T5, the WaveFun, Bomaker SiFi, and the Ofusho F16.
The MPOW sounded fine, but the push buttons were annoying. 
The best so far for me have been the Tranya B530. Better for me than the other Tranya models. The touch controls on the 530 work very well, and to my ear the sound signature and stage are impressive.


----------



## clerkpalmer

The anker pro looks like a winner over the echo buds.  Hmmm.


----------



## CrusaderIce

Looks like those liberty pros are having a preorder sale for $99. So tempting...


----------



## chinmie

this just popped up on my google suggestion feed, i don't know if it's still valid though

https://www.redmondpie.com/crazy-de...t-20-features-35-hours-of-total-battery-life/

the MPow T5 for just 20 dollars. too bad it can't ship to my country


----------



## clerkpalmer

CrusaderIce said:


> Looks like those liberty pros are having a preorder sale for $99. So tempting...


Linky?


----------



## clerkpalmer

clerkpalmer said:


> Linky?


 I found it. That'll be tough to pass on. I may cancel the echo.  Looks cool but my guess is the sq will not impress me.


----------



## CrusaderIce

clerkpalmer said:


> I found it. That'll be tough to pass on. I may cancel the echo.  Looks cool but my guess is the sq will not impress me.


Sorry! Thought I did
For everyone else: https://www.soundcore.com/products/variant/liberty-2-pro/A3909011


----------



## vstolpner

CrusaderIce said:


> Sorry! Thought I did
> For everyone else: https://www.soundcore.com/products/variant/liberty-2-pro/A3909011


Oh wow, those do look really cool!!
Wonder how that "coaxial dynamic driver" will do though...
I think I'd still rather try the TRN T200 for that money


----------



## chinmie

CrusaderIce said:


> Sorry! Thought I did
> For everyone else: https://www.soundcore.com/products/variant/liberty-2-pro/A3909011



i didn't know the Sony uses Airoha chips.. so that Airoha brand is pretty good? i often avoid it in favor of Realtek because i don't know that brand


----------



## chinmie

anybody noticed that Lypertek logo looks like the Linkin Park logo? i just noticed it after some reviewer mentioned it


----------



## riodgarp

chinmie said:


> anybody noticed that Lypertek logo looks like the Linkin Park logo? i just noticed it after some reviewer mentioned it



that's what I tough when I first saw it


----------



## Blueshound24

chinmie said:


> this just popped up on my google suggestion feed, i don't know if it's still valid though
> 
> https://www.redmondpie.com/crazy-de...t-20-features-35-hours-of-total-battery-life/
> 
> the MPow T5 for just 20 dollars. too bad it can't ship to my country




Thanks for the link, but I can't get the code to work unfortunately. 

"The promotional code you entered is not valid."


----------



## LouisArmstrong

I have used the Louis Vuitton Horizon bluetooth earphones for almost six months now. It may not be the Tia Fourte Noir or the Legend X in terms of sound, but it is among the best of the bunch of wireless earphones that I have heard, sound wise and aesthetics-wise (it seems that everyone with a pair of ears is using AirPods these days). I am used to walking around with 3K+ IEMs and 2K+ cables,  but it seemed that no one ever noticed or even had any idea how much they would cost. The Louis Vuitton is the only pair of earphones that would literally turn heads and I am very satisfied with its sound considering its wireless nature. Now I only use my high end IEMs at home mostly connected to the Playstaion 4 Pro or Xbox One X controllers... and very occasionally to my SP1000. And yes I know it is the identical thing as the Master & Dynamics MW07 with a 3 times markup.


----------



## charleski

vstolpner said:


> Oh wow, those do look really cool!!
> Wonder how that "coaxial dynamic driver" will do though...
> I think I'd still rather try the TRN T200 for that money


Too much magic pixie dust on the Soundcore for me. How is 'Astria Coaxial Acoustic Architecture' anything more than just sticking a BA in the throat of a dynamic driver like you find from numerous other makers? I remain unconvinced by these claims of being able to automatically tailor EQ since the measuring equipment needed to do it properly would end up costing more than the earphones itself.


----------



## vstolpner

Got my Shanling MTW100 (BA) review up:
https://medium.com/@vstolpner/shanling-mtw100-ba-knowles-bas-in-a-chi-fi-shell-25a3a5a32e57

@FYLegend - still unable to test C-to-C charging. Will let you know if I get my hands on one
@mattedialdoc - no volume adjustment, confirmed by @Shanling 
@LordToneeus - FYI


----------



## Luchyres

clerkpalmer said:


> The anker pro looks like a winner over the echo buds.  Hmmm.



I just found this very, very entertaining video about the driver configuration in the Pro 2. Perhaps too entertaining... 



Even better? They release right around my birthday - so if I like them, I'll get to use the "present from me to me excuse"


----------



## Luchyres

charleski said:


> Too much magic pixie dust on the Soundcore for me. How is 'Astria Coaxial Acoustic Architecture' anything more than just sticking a BA in the throat of a dynamic driver like you find from numerous other makers? I remain unconvinced by these claims of being able to automatically tailor EQ since the measuring equipment needed to do it properly would end up costing more than the earphones itself.



I think I agree with most all of what you're saying, except I'm saying "eff it, prove your sq to me, buds - and if you don't you're going straight back to Amazon." Audio quality (I don't buy the config claims at face value- though the video is fun) and Mic quality are the two main concerns for me.they may deliver, or they could also be a mess - we'll see! 

(I have a hunch that @hifi80sman is just a few clicks behind me in trying them out)


----------



## charleski

chinmie said:


> i didn't know the Sony uses Airoha chips.. so that Airoha brand is pretty good? i often avoid it in favor of Realtek because i don't know that brand


Airoha is a subsidiary of Mediatek. The WF100XM3 actually uses the MT2811 chip as seen in this teardown. This is probably a custom design that Sony had Mediatek make for them, since the chip isn't listed on Airoha's public site.


----------



## C_Lindbergh

Man.. if only those Liberty 2 pro had an Ambiet mode... I'd have having to take them out everytime I want to interact with the outside world.


----------



## webvan

hifi80sman said:


> It's actually branded as "noise reduction", which is likely just a marketing term for weak sauce ANC.



It's hard to tell, I don't think there's an official definition of "noise reduction" and "noise cancelling". I currently have both the Sony WF-1000MX3 and the Libratone Track Air+ and it could be argued that they both offer "noise reduction". Compared to TWS that isolate well like the Anbes 359 the difference is pretty marginal, especially with music. You do get a bit more less deep droning frequencies.
Now if the Echo Buds' "reduction" doesn't involve actually producing noise cancelling frequencies that's another story !


----------



## willyk

Blueshound24 said:


> Thanks for the link, but I can't get the code to work unfortunately.
> 
> "The promotional code you entered is not valid."



Same. 
Bummer!


----------



## mattedialdoc

vstolpner said:


> Got my Shanling MTW100 (BA) review up:
> https://medium.com/@vstolpner/shanling-mtw100-ba-knowles-bas-in-a-chi-fi-shell-25a3a5a32e57
> 
> @FYLegend - still unable to test C-to-C charging. Will let you know if I get my hands on one
> ...



Thank you....but in your review it says “Unfortunately the on-ear controls are somewhat lacking on these — double tap to play/pause, tripple tap to increase/decrease volume, and a 3-second hold to activate/deactivate the ambient noise feature”. I assume that’s an error relative to the volume.


----------



## LordToneeus

clerkpalmer said:


> I found it. That'll be tough to pass on. I may cancel the echo.  Looks cool but my guess is the sq will not impress me.



I cancelled my Echo Buds pre-order.  Fickle?  Certainly.  But of the hand-full of reviews I've read so far this morning, not one mentioned being immediately struck by the quality of the sound, and that's really what I was hoping for.  The consensus is that they sound fine, but everyone gave the disclaimer that it would take more time to properly weigh in on the sound given the circumstances of the demo.  Fair enough, but I was really hoping for "Oh sh%t! These sound great!"  More gushing, less hedging.  

I'm gonna pre-order the Liberty 2 Pros.


----------



## cwill

Hi all, 1st time poster here. I've been following this thread for a long while now and purchased the MPOW T5 and Kisrall R18 (Anbes 359) based on the suggestions here. Absolutely prefer the sound of the R18's. Waaay brighter and open. Anyhow, I was wondering if anyone could tell me what size Comply TrueGrip tips would fit these? Thanks all.


----------



## bedlamite

FWIW I have the first Zolo Liberty+ buds from their Kickstarter and I think they're quite bad. Flabby bass with zero sparkle, saddled with a large heavy carrying case that's made of metal. Wasted my money there. Anker can make good audio gear (I have a pair of Soundbuds Slim+ that are dirt cheap and have good punchy sound), but the Liberties are a swing and a miss.


----------



## jlcsoft

I´ve seen a you tube video with the review of the , Lypertek - Tevi, and he compares the sound to the senheisser momentum. It costs 90$. Perhaps the best tws under 100$. Has anyone tried them?.
the links of the review and the brand

https://www.lypertek.com/product-page/lypertek-tevi-truly-wireless-earphones

Regards.


----------



## vstolpner

mattedialdoc said:


> Thank you....but in your review it says “Unfortunately the on-ear controls are somewhat lacking on these — double tap to play/pause, tripple tap to increase/decrease volume, and a 3-second hold to activate/deactivate the ambient noise feature”. I assume that’s an error relative to the volume.


Oops, thanks for that. Corrected


----------



## Grayson73

Looking for a recommendation for wireless IEM under $50 for pop music. For reference, I love the sound sig of the LZ-A2, LZ-A2s, and Zero Audio Carbo Tenore.  Thanks in advance!


----------



## Mouseman

Grayson73 said:


> Looking for a recommendation for wireless IEM under $50 for pop music. For reference, I love the sound sig of the LZ-A2, LZ-A2s, and Zero Audio Carbo Tenore.  Thanks in advance!


The Tranya B530 is a little over your range ($60 on Amazon), but it's excellent. The MPow T5 is also really good and it's on sale on Amazon right now for $36.


----------



## Caipirina

vstolpner said:


> Got my Shanling MTW100 (BA) review up:
> https://medium.com/@vstolpner/shanling-mtw100-ba-knowles-bas-in-a-chi-fi-shell-25a3a5a32e57



Thanks for the nice review. Despite that, I have decided to pass on the Shanling, as I am very happy with my Mifo O5 ... also, I need to regain some control over my hoarding   And the seller I had placed the order with didn't do diddly squat for 4 days .. so I cancelled ...


----------



## d3myz

vstolpner said:


> Oh wow, those do look really cool!!
> Wonder how that "coaxial dynamic driver" will do though...
> I think I'd still rather try the TRN T200 for that money


These?


----------



## vstolpner

Caipirina said:


> Thanks for the nice review. Despite that, I have decided to pass on the Shanling, as I am very happy with my Mifo O5 ... also, I need to regain some control over my hoarding   And the seller I had placed the order with didn't do diddly squat for 4 days .. so I cancelled ...



Yeah I'm not sure it's worth the upgrade over the O5 Professional. But as my first foray into ambient mode, they're fantastic!



d3myz said:


> These?



Looks like them, yes.


----------



## webvan

LordToneeus said:


> I cancelled my Echo Buds pre-order.  Fickle?  Certainly.  But of the hand-full of reviews I've read so far this morning, not one mentioned being immediately struck by the quality of the sound, and that's really what I was hoping for.  The consensus is that they sound fine, but everyone gave the disclaimer that it would take more time to properly weigh in on the sound given the circumstances of the demo.  Fair enough, but I was really hoping for "Oh sh%t! These sound great!"  More gushing, less hedging.
> 
> I'm gonna pre-order the Liberty 2 Pros.


Have you found an actual review ? I've only see quick previews in the demo room so far ?


----------



## d3myz

hifi80sman said:


> Partron PWE-100
> If you only care about sound, these are a great buy.  Out of the box, the signature is audiophile friendly, with a clean, clear presentation, similar to the Galaxy Buds, although I do think the Partron PWE-100 sound a smidgen better.  There is an app that offers firmware updates (you have to update each earbud separately) and an EQ, however, the EQ only has 3 presets (Normal, Bass, Treble) and would not allow me to adjust the frequencies individually (although it does show a 5 band EQ).  The Bass preset, for me, worked well, and does not turn it into a bass monster, rather, it retains all the great characteristics of a near-flat balanced signature, but just kicks up the bass a bit, more along the lines of Audio-Technica's "Solid Bass" line.  Qualcomm QCC3026 SoC.
> 
> Ahh, but things were too good to be true.  Some deal killers for me, unfortunately.
> ...



Just saw your review on Amazon as I was about to buy these. Bummer, I was pretty pumped about them. Any chance you got a bad pair? or do the only support single ear calling? etc.


----------



## AtariPrime

clerkpalmer said:


> The anker pro looks like a winner over the echo buds.  Hmmm.



Based on the design I would contend that the Anker Spirit Dot 2 is the proper comparison to the Echo Buds.  From what I can tell I would still go with the Anker though.


----------



## d3myz (Sep 26, 2019)

Looks like the Lypertek Tevi is $199.99 at amazon US now, it was $89.99 yesterday. What the hell? https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07VB46R9Y/ref=ox_sc_saved_title_3?smid=A1FEESEMG511N0&psc=1

I spoke with Lypertek, they are running out of stock, so they upped the price to slow down purchases. Weird.


----------



## vstolpner

d3myz said:


> Looks like the Lypertek Tevi is $199.99 at amazon US now, it was $89.99 yesterday. What the hell? https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07VB46R9Y/ref=ox_sc_saved_title_3?smid=A1FEESEMG511N0&psc=1



I'm guessing the seller that had them at $89.99 is sold out so next cheapest seller is up. See this all the time.


----------



## LordToneeus

webvan said:


> Have you found an actual review ? I've only see quick previews in the demo room so far ?



No, the quick demo room previews are what I am referring to.


----------



## d3myz

vstolpner said:


> I'm guessing the seller that had them at $89.99 is sold out so next cheapest seller is up. See this all the time.


Good Ol' supply and demand. Apparently this increase came at the request of Lypertek.


----------



## hifi80sman (Sep 26, 2019)

d3myz said:


> Just saw your review on Amazon as I was about to buy these. Bummer, I was pretty pumped about them. Any chance you got a bad pair? or do the only support single ear calling? etc.


I was thinking the same thing, but when I looked at the manual, it confirmed it only supported single ear.  Bummer.  They sound fantastic and have the clarity you're probably looking for.  Controls are VERY limited, though.

The connection issue could have been a bad pair, so take that with a grain of salt.


----------



## d3myz

I just spoke with Lypertek via FB messenger. They told me they just shipped out a bunch more to amazon and they should be there early next week. I asked them for a promo code or if there were any discounts available and they told me that if I purchased them via amazon and left a review they'd give me 50% off whether it was a good or bad review.  If I had review experience like a site as many of you noble dudes do, I could get them for free. So if you want to get your hands on a pair, hit them up on their website chat, or FB messenger. I'm going to order as soon as they are in stock.


----------



## d3myz

hifi80sman said:


> I was thinking the same thing, but when I looked at the manual, it confirmed it only supported single ear.  Bummer.  They sound fantastic and have the clarity you're probably looking for.  Controls are VERY limited, though.
> 
> The connection issue could have been a bad pair, so take that with a grain of salt.


damn, Damn, DAMN. What to do? How many do you have in your collection at @hifi80sman? I had 28, sent 7 back this week. about to buy the Liberty Pro 2's, Tevi's and have the stupid Advanced M5's on order. I think i'm moving away from the cheaper stuff.


----------



## hifi80sman

AtariPrime said:


> Based on the design I would contend that the Anker Spirit Dot 2 is the proper comparison to the Echo Buds.  From what I can tell I would still go with the Anker though.


I think @clerkpalmer was simply referring to the fact that the top of the range Anker Liberty 2 Pro looks more compelling than the Amazon Echo Buds.  Since there is only 1 Amazon Echo Buds (The Buds are who we thought they were.), we're looking at top dog vs. top dog (but just one dog).


----------



## Dyismar

Hi. I just want to ask. Does anyone know what TWS is this? I keep searching on the internet but cant find this one. This is from an online auction site so that's why I can't ask for other image. This is the best that I've got. Any ideas would be appreciated!


----------



## d3myz

Guy at Lypertek just lowered the price on amazon back to 89.90, so I was able to order mine. There are 3 left.


----------



## clerkpalmer

hifi80sman said:


> I think @clerkpalmer was simply referring to the fact that the top of the range Anker Liberty 2 Pro looks more compelling than the Amazon Echo Buds.  Since there is only 1 Amazon Echo Buds (The Buds are who we thought they were.), we're looking at top dog vs. top dog (but just one dog).



Right. Just thinking which one is going to get my money.  I think I'll be cancelling the echo dots for now .  on the fence on the liberty.  I have the new kz on order.


----------



## clerkpalmer

clerkpalmer said:


> Right. Just thinking which one is going to get my money.  I think I'll be cancelling the echo dots for now .  on the fence on the liberty.  I have the new kz on order.


So tempting at 99!  Arrgghhhhh.


----------



## wizll

bedlamite said:


> FWIW I have the first Zolo Liberty+ buds from their Kickstarter and I think they're quite bad. Flabby bass with zero sparkle, saddled with a large heavy carrying case that's made of metal. Wasted my money there. Anker can make good audio gear (I have a pair of Soundbuds Slim+ that are dirt cheap and have good punchy sound), but the Liberties are a swing and a miss.


did you get an email today offering old zolo liberty+ backers a coupon for the liberty 2 pro for $79?


----------



## d3myz

clerkpalmer said:


> Right. Just thinking which one is going to get my money.  I think I'll be cancelling the echo dots for now .  on the fence on the liberty.  I have the new kz on order.


I just watched the liberty 2 pro video on the website and I got sold. Sigh. I'm such an addict.


----------



## vstolpner

I've been using the Shanling MTW100 on transit recently and I'm really impressed with the ambient mode. Very clear, can hear the transit announcements, people walking by, with really good spacial perception at that. And the music contributes to sound great! Actually makes the earphones feel much more open this way.

I haven't used other TWS with ambient mode - is that similar to others or are the Shanling's actually as great as they seem?


----------



## Caipirina

Dyismar said:


> Hi. I just want to ask. Does anyone know what TWS is this? I keep searching on the internet but cant find this one. This is from an online auction site so that's why I can't ask for other image. This is the best that I've got. Any ideas would be appreciated!



it’s the ‘famous’ T8 ... that sold a while ago for just a bit over 10$ and ppl were hoping it might be the Sabbat x12 in disguise (it is not. It is an ok TWS, but rather reflective of its low price) 

https://s.click.aliexpress.com/e/FTcAgU8s

Earbud style, not in ear.


----------



## hifi80sman

clerkpalmer said:


> So tempting at 99!  Arrgghhhhh.


Yeah, I've literally been thinking about it all day and night, since there is only a limited period to pre-order.  Based on my experience with Anker, they will probably have some nice bass thump (11mm drivers) but also sparkle, so likely a traditional V.  However, there is an app with EQ, making it even more compelling if the drivers are super-duper uber.  I think I'll wait for some feedback first, given most of the early bird stuff is really the sale price when they go on sale.  Holding out a little for the new Master & Dynamic and just to see what else comes out around the holidays.


----------



## Luchyres

clerkpalmer said:


> So tempting at 99!  Arrgghhhhh.


Whoah, I didn't realize you could preorder the Liberty Pro 2 for $99 on their site! Nice, I wasn't anticipating an Early bird preorder discount.


----------



## mattedialdoc

Mouseman said:


> The Tranya B530 is a little over your range ($60 on Amazon), but it's excellent. The MPow T5 is also really good and it's on sale on Amazon right now for $36.



I would second this recommendation. Of all the Tranyas, the MPOW, and a handful of others in the last few wks, I feel like the B530 are the overall best for me. I’m still hunting and enjoying trying new ones though!


----------



## Dyismar

Caipirina said:


> it’s the ‘famous’ T8 ... that sold a while ago for just a bit over 10$ and ppl were hoping it might be the Sabbat x12 in disguise (it is not. It is an ok TWS, but rather reflective of its low price)
> 
> https://s.click.aliexpress.com/e/FTcAgU8s
> 
> Earbud style, not in ear.



Thank you so much!  Thankfully I didn't overpaid for that. Got it for 19 usd with the guitar pedal worth $30.


----------



## chinmie

vstolpner said:


> I've been using the Shanling MTW100 on transit recently and I'm really impressed with the ambient mode. Very clear, can hear the transit announcements, people walking by, with really good spacial perception at that. And the music contributes to sound great! Actually makes the earphones feel much more open this way.
> 
> I haven't used other TWS with ambient mode - is that similar to others or are the Shanling's actually as great as they seem?



I'm liking the Galaxy buds ambient mode, currently using it as my main edc TWS (along with the BT20s combos).
the ambient volume is adjustable and also liking the feature to focus the ambient sound to conversation voices). 
i also like using the Earin M2 ambient mode, but i like the Galaxy buds ambient better


----------



## Grayson73

Mouseman said:


> The Tranya B530 is a little over your range ($60 on Amazon), but it's excellent. The MPow T5 is also really good and it's on sale on Amazon right now for $36.



Thanks!  A few questions to everyone.

1.  The stuff that I own that I like are the LZ-A2/A2S, Zero Audio Carbo Tenore, and Fidelio X2.  Are the MPow T5 and Tranya B530 comparable or do I need to raise my budget?

2.  I'd like to buy at least 3 to compare, so any other suggestions besides the T5 and the B530?


----------



## hifi80sman

Grayson73 said:


> Thanks!  A few questions to everyone.
> 
> 1.  The stuff that I own that I like are the LZ-A2/A2S, Zero Audio Carbo Tenore, and Fidelio X2.  Are the MPow T5 and Tranya B530 comparable or do I need to raise my budget?
> 
> 2.  I'd like to buy at least 3 to compare, so any other suggestions besides the T5 and the B530?


If you like the Zero Audio Carbo Tenore, you'll probably like the MPOW T5.  Also, for around $150 (not sure what your budget is), the House of Marley Liberate Air is quite nice (just does not have volume controls on the earbuds).


----------



## Luchyres

I realize I don't know if the Liberty 2 Pro will have volume control - which is not a dealbreaker for me but I *do* want. If any of you know - let me know - otherwise I just sent an email to anker support to ask the answer/ask for the control scheme.


----------



## Grayson73

Are the Anbes 359, Kissral R18, Yineme ST-BE30 the same?


----------



## Thomas De Brito

d3myz said:


> I just spoke with Lypertek via FB messenger. They told me they just shipped out a bunch more to amazon and they should be there early next week. I asked them for a promo code or if there were any discounts available and they told me that if I purchased them via amazon and left a review they'd give me 50% off whether it was a good or bad review.  If I had review experience like a site as many of you noble dudes do, I could get them for free. So if you want to get your hands on a pair, hit them up on their website chat, or FB messenger. I'm going to order as soon as they are in stock.


They told me, they were giving a free pair of foams and no discount when I asked for a discount a month or two ago, the problem is amazon is more expensive in the french amazon. I don't mind leaving them a review for 50 percent off. Let me know if they follow thru


----------



## hifi80sman

Grayson73 said:


> Are the Anbes 359, Kissral R18, Yineme ST-BE30 the same?


It does appear based on the available evidence, the Anbes 359 and Kissral R18 are the same, just different re-brands.  Not sure about the Yineme ST-BE30.  What complicates matters, is there appear to be different versions of the same brand (there are a few versions of the Anbes 359 in different packaging).  If you're getting the Kissral R18 from Amazon and it's Prime with free returns if defective, then you're probably fine taking the (safe) bet.


----------



## Grayson73 (Sep 27, 2019)

Thanks.  Sounds like there are 3 for me to try now.

1.  Mpow T5 (ordered)
2.  Kissral R18 (Anbes 359 OOS on Amazon).  Edit:  Got the SSK for $21!
3.  Ofusho F16


----------



## Slater

Caipirina said:


> and why does it have an accelerometer I wonder?



That’s easy. Likely it records shocks which are strong enough to damage the BA drivers. Which in turn will be reported back via the cloud, and used as a basis to deny warranty claims based on “abuse/damage by the end user”.

Similar to the moisture indicator Apple added to their devices years ago.


----------



## Slater (Sep 26, 2019)

vstolpner said:


> Wonder how that "coaxial dynamic driver" will do though...



That’s a technical term for a type of “dual dynamic driver”.

It’s a larger dynamic driver (usually between 8mm-10mm which is used for low frequency end) with a smaller dynamic driver (usually between 5mm-7mm which is used for the higher frequency range) stacked on top coaxially. Some coaxial dual dynamic drivers share the same voice coil and/or magnet, some do not. They usually have passive crossover circuits to help with tuning.

Generally speaking, they usually have good performance.


----------



## hifi80sman

Slater said:


> That’s a technical term for a type of “dual dynamic driver”.
> 
> It’s a larger dynamic driver (usually between 8mm-10mm) used for low end, with a smaller dynamic driver (usually between 5mm-7mm) stacked on top coaxially. Some coaxial dual dynamic drivers share the same voice coil and/or magnet, some do not.
> 
> Generally speaking, they usually have good performance.


Man, this is making me want to pre-order now, after I made peace with waiting for some feedback.

Any other IEMs you know of (wired or wireless) that have the same type of driver?


----------



## d3myz

hifi80sman said:


> Man, this is making me want to pre-order now, after I made peace with waiting for some feedback.
> 
> Any other IEMs you know of (wired or wireless) that have the same type of driver?



Slater, you are the man! thanks for the education. Now i'm even more excited! @hifi80sman  PULL THAT TRIGGER!!


----------



## Slater (Sep 26, 2019)

hifi80sman said:


> Man, this is making me want to pre-order now, after I made peace with waiting for some feedback.
> 
> Any other IEMs you know of (wired or wireless) that have the same type of driver?



Yeah, it’s fairly common with multi driver ChiFi. Used by KZ, TRN, BQEYZ, and others...

Bear in mind that after seeing this marketing image, their use of the word “coaxial” may not mean a “coaxial dynamic driver”, but rather a coaxial *arrangement* (in other words 2 drivers,  a single dynamic + single BA, that are aligned along the same axis):




And if that’s the case, it’s just marketing fluff dressed up to sound high tech and revolutionary, but in reality it’s nothing special and is what every ChiFi hybrid earphone with a BA in the nozzle is.

Technically, a peanut butter sandwich or cheeseburger with fixings is a “coaxial edible architecture”. It just sounds high tech and ‘science-y’ when I use fancy terms.

Does it explicitly say “dual dynamic coaxial driver”?


----------



## d3myz (Sep 26, 2019)

Grayson73 said:


> Thanks.  Sounds like there are 3 for me to try now.
> 
> 1.  Mpow T5
> 2.  Kissral R18 (Anbes 359 OOS on Amazon)
> 3.  Ofusho F16


I missed what type of Sound signature you are going for, but I'd also try the Tranya T3 and the Lystar J29, The J29's are pretty cheap, but they have some serious treble, good bass volume and voice asst. etc and they are $20 I'm not a fan of the Ofusho's even though I have them They are just too bulky for me and the high mids and highs are masked and the mid bass is prominent and kind of bleeds. just my opinion though.


----------



## vstolpner

Slater said:


> Yeah, it’s fairly common with multi driver ChiFi. Used by KZ, TRN, BQEYZ, and others...
> 
> Bear in mind that after seeing this marketing image, their use of the word “coaxial” may not mean a “coaxial dynamic driver”, but rather a coaxial *arrangement* (in other words 2 drivers,  a single dynamic + single BA, that are aligned along the same axis):
> 
> ...



The way they drew it and explained it I thought it was more of a donut dynamic driver that surrounded the BA driver... 
Makes it seem less impressive...
Still, should sound pretty good!
Wouldn't mind checking them out


----------



## Slater

vstolpner said:


> The way they drew it and explained it I thought it was more of a donut dynamic driver that surrounded the BA driver...
> Makes it seem less impressive...
> Still, should sound pretty good!
> Wouldn't mind checking them out



It’s possible. But that isn’t the same thing as a dual dynamic coaxial driver.

The fact that they’re advertising a Knowles BA driver does show a conscious effort to make a quality product though.


----------



## hifi80sman

vstolpner said:


> The way they drew it and explained it I thought it was more of a donut dynamic driver that surrounded the BA driver...
> Makes it seem less impressive...
> Still, should sound pretty good!
> Wouldn't mind checking them out


The cycle continues...


----------



## vstolpner

Slater said:


> It’s possible. But that isn’t the same thing as a dual dynamic coaxial driver.
> 
> The fact that they’re advertising a Knowles BA driver does show a conscious effort to make a quality product though.



Yeah the Knowles branding got me curious too. 
For what it's worth, the more I listen to the Knowles BA in the Shanling MTW100 the more I like it - I think the break in is still ongoing and the bass is filling out more each hour.



hifi80sman said:


> The cycle continues...



Oh so very true....

And Christmas is just around the corner...


----------



## FYLegend

Does anyone have any info on a new Bomaker TWS? Someone on Drop mentioned it having Type C and a 2000mAh power bank case.

How's BT connection on the TEVI? I recall someone on this thread saying it's worse than other BT5.0 products...

Also according to Best Buy, the Jabra 75t will be 229CAD


----------



## Detrailer

Hello, i have a question regarding my first purchase of wireless IEMs. I am coming from Hifiman RE-400 which were absolutely glorious in sound department audio quality is the most valuable stat. Since student life something up to 100 dollars. I was looking at Creative Outlier Air, Soundcore Liberty Air and Sony WF-1000X which i can get for 99.
Thank for advice in advance.


----------



## MIBUK

Here’s a nice round up of the current wireless earbuds. https://www.theguardian.com/technol...ng-jabra-sennheiser-anker-compared-and-ranked


----------



## d3myz

hifi80sman said:


> The cycle continues...


Amazing how true it is.


----------



## d3myz

FYLegend said:


> Does anyone have any info on a new Bomaker TWS? Someone on Drop mentioned it having Type C and a 2000mAh power bank case.
> 
> How's BT connection on the TEVI? I recall someone on this thread saying it's worse than other BT5.0 products...
> 
> Also according to Best Buy, the Jabra 75t will be 229CAD


I'm actually listening to the Bomaker SiFi right now. I have mixed thoughts about them. the Case is TINY and the headphones are pretty small too, but have a long nozzle, the sound is overall really clean. The bass is present but not very prominent, highs are clear and sparkle almost a little too much for me and I really like treble. mids are little below average, present but not as forward as say the T5 they lack depth if that makes sense. The sound really good and the more i use them, the more they open up. The case and buds are housed in a rubber/silicone type material and they feel really high quality. connection is excellent and quick. button is easy to press and all the functions work well. I like them a lot, but they need more bass. I thought about keeping them for listening to audiobooks, but I have so many other TWS'.


----------



## d3myz

Not Today, Satan.


----------



## d3myz

MIBUK said:


> Here’s a nice round up of the current wireless earbuds. https://www.theguardian.com/technol...ng-jabra-sennheiser-anker-compared-and-ranked


I'm actually pleasantly surprised to see the T3 on there, but the Anker Soundcore Liberty Neo's are well built but sound terrible.


----------



## d3myz

Thomas De Brito said:


> They told me, they were giving a free pair of foams and no discount when I asked for a discount a month or two ago, the problem is amazon is more expensive in the french amazon. I don't mind leaving them a review for 50 percent off. Let me know if they follow thru


Will do, I should have them Sat. and have my review post by Mon. or Tues.


----------



## Detrailer

MIBUK said:


> Here’s a nice round up of the current wireless earbuds. https://www.theguardian.com/technol...ng-jabra-sennheiser-anker-compared-and-ranked


Thank you, nice article.


----------



## LordToneeus

d3myz said:


> I'm actually listening to the Bomaker SiFi right now. I have mixed thoughts about them. the Case is TINY and the headphones are pretty small too, but have a long nozzle, the sound is overall really clean. The bass is present but not very prominent, highs are clear and sparkle almost a little too much for me and I really like treble. mids are little below average, present but not as forward as say the T5 they lack depth if that makes sense. The sound really good and the more i use them, the more they open up. The case and buds are housed in a rubber/silicone type material and they feel really high quality. connection is excellent and quick. button is easy to press and all the functions work well. I like them a lot, but they need more bass. I thought about keeping them for listening to audiobooks, but I have so many other TWS'.



I felt exactly the same about them. I ultimately sent them back. They just couldn’t edge out the Mpow T5 (or my Astrotec Momentum’s for that matter - I’ve returned to them and really enjoy them).


----------



## LordToneeus

d3myz said:


> I just spoke with Lypertek via FB messenger. They told me they just shipped out a bunch more to amazon and they should be there early next week. I asked them for a promo code or if there were any discounts available and they told me that if I purchased them via amazon and left a review they'd give me 50% off whether it was a good or bad review.  If I had review experience like a site as many of you noble dudes do, I could get them for free. So if you want to get your hands on a pair, hit them up on their website chat, or FB messenger. I'm going to order as soon as they are in stock.



I tried the website chat after reading this, left my email, and finally got this response: “hi, thanks for your message, sorry no any discount at the moment.”  Shucks.


----------



## silverfishla

Anybody have the Whizzer B6 and can give an impression?  Those look good with APTX, which I’m looking for.
Also, as an aside, those Ikko I-planet tips are really great with my QCY buds.  Best tips I’ve tried with the tws because the are so stable in the ear and I don’t have to shove them in.  I think a brand called Misodiso or something has similar tips on Ali too, but I haven’t tried those because I’m unsure of their sizes.  FYI


----------



## d3myz

LordToneeus said:


> I tried the website chat after reading this, left my email, and finally got this response: “hi, thanks for your message, sorry no any discount at the moment.”  Shucks.


You may want to hit them up on FB messenger are they sold out on amazon? Mention you do reviews. Unless you don’t .


----------



## vstolpner

d3myz said:


> You may want to hit them up on FB messenger are they sold out on amazon? Mention you do reviews. Unless you don’t .



I did that this morning actually - no response


----------



## Slater

d3myz said:


> Not Today, Satan.



So people think they’re ordering TWcGalaxy Buds, and they receive the AKG wired earphones?

That’s scummy


----------



## mattedialdoc

FYLegend said:


> Does anyone have any info on a new Bomaker TWS? Someone on Drop mentioned it having Type C and a 2000mAh power bank case.
> 
> How's BT connection on the TEVI? I recall someone on this thread saying it's worse than other BT5.0 products...
> 
> Also according to Best Buy, the Jabra 75t will be 229CAD



I ordered the Bomaker and just sent them back. I didn’t like the push button control. I’ve decided I need touch controls to be happy. I don’t like the feeling of pushing on a bud in my ear..and having to somehow hold the bud stable in place and push the button is an annoyance.


----------



## FYLegend

Does Samsung Scalable codec have better latency than AAC? All TWS I've tried have struggled with latency for games but none of them have AptX. Although there is still a bit of latency, it is considerably better on my AptX receivers and headphones is much better.



Slater said:


> So people think they’re ordering TWcGalaxy Buds, and they receive the AKG wired earphones?
> 
> That’s scummy


Well it's just like putting listings on eBay or Amazon from low to highest price, it's gonna put other similar stuff at the bottom ("Samsung earbuds, case/skin for Galaxy buds at the bottom).

Anyways, Shopbot.ca lists the cheapest as 162$CAD on Amazon but the actual listing price is 169$, so maybe it changed since then. Note that the lower listings are third-party/international/grey-market sellers, some of which are Amazon-fulfilled, but Samsung still sells them at 199$. Some sites like Gamercan have them discounted but charge for shipping.



vstolpner said:


> I did that this morning actually - no response


They responded today almost instantaneously along the lines of "we can't afford a discount" and "shipping costs more than the buds"...

Just saw this on the Head-Fi FB group... As if more drivers = better and not sure what MEAOES is...


----------



## vstolpner

FYLegend said:


> Does Samsung Scalable codec have better latency than AAC? All TWS I've tried have struggled with latency for games but none of them have AptX. Although there is still a bit of latency, it is considerably better on my AptX receivers and headphones is much better.
> 
> 
> Well it's just like putting listings on eBay or Amazon from low to highest price, it's gonna put other similar stuff at the bottom ("Samsung earbuds, case/skin for Galaxy buds at the bottom).
> ...



Not sure about Samsung's Scalable Codec, but Qualcomm uses aptX-LL for low latency applications, but as far as I know that's on a 1-1 basis only, so doesn't apply to TWS. 
I believe aptX is lower latency than SBC, but again, that's more for 1-1 applications and not necessarily applicable for TWS applications.
I think if you want lowest latency, you need to get Qualcomm's TWS+ or similar tech that connects each earbud to the transmitting device separately. If I recall correctly, BT6.0 will include that natively.

Those earbuds have an interesting driver configuration - would be intersting to see an exploded diagram of how it's setup. Not many use piezoelectric drivers and these guys use 2 in each earbud? Any price / links?


----------



## Caipirina

I received those SSK UFO buds https://s.click.aliexpress.com/e/L3FyQ9hm today, only 9 days after ordering... and after a/b-ing same songs (using same ear tips) I am reasonably confident that they sound exactly like my Anbes 359. Does not even feel like any burn in is needed. 

 

Same shape, same announce voice, same case, white lights on ufo instead of blue. 
Very happy to have a spare now.


----------



## webvan

Same controls too ? Including volume ? Some UFOs did not have volume control for some reason.

I'm finding after a week that the Anbes 359 are not a great fit for my ears, regardless of the tips, too small possibly. I prefer the fit of the 65Ts that "fill" the ear and don't move around as a result.


----------



## VTman (Sep 27, 2019)

FYLegend said:


> Just saw this on the Head-Fi FB group... As if more drivers = better and not sure what MEAOES is...







MEAOES=Multiple Audio Experience
Still not sure what that means...


----------



## Caipirina

webvan said:


> Same controls too ? Including volume ? Some UFOs did not have volume control for some reason.
> .


Tested & confirmed. Volume control present & same as Anbes

as for your ears ... this is where we all have our own stories. I actually started out with the Jabra Elite Sport, and liked that fullness. Today only my Havit G1 have tgat Form factor, and I am not a fan anymore. 

out of all buds I have, I like that specific tear drop shape of the Anbes 359 best (and hence I ordered the SSK) 

one slight difference might be (need to test) : the space inside the UFO looks ever so slightly bigger, might have space for bigger tips. Will try with spinfits


----------



## Caipirina

VTman said:


> MEAOES=Multiple Audio Experience
> Still not sure what that means...



this is a weird way to derive an acronym : first/ last letter, first / last letter. But there is no S in experience. .... weird


----------



## Grayson73 (Sep 27, 2019)

d3myz said:


> I missed what type of Sound signature you are going for, but I'd also try the Tranya T3 and the Lystar J29, The J29's are pretty cheap, but they have some serious treble, good bass volume and voice asst. etc and they are $20 I'm not a fan of the Ofusho's even though I have them They are just too bulky for me and the high mids and highs are masked and the mid bass is prominent and kind of bleeds. just my opinion though.



Sound sig slightly warm, but great vocals, for mostly pop music.

If I were to only try 3, which 3 would you recommend, and which is your favorite for <$50?

Mpow T5 (ordered)
Kissral R18 (Anbes 359 OOS on Amazon).  Edit:  Ordered the SSK clone for $21
Tranya T3
Lystar J29


----------



## Bartig

The RHA TrueConnect has been out for around a year now. I tested it to see if it still stands against so many new competitors. Well, I don't really think it does. Any TrueConnect fans among you? Am I missing something?


----------



## Stephan

Caipirina said:


> I received those SSK UFO buds https://s.click.aliexpress.com/e/L3FyQ9hm today, only 9 days after ordering... and after a/b-ing same songs (using same ear tips) I am reasonably confident that they sound exactly like my Anbes 359. Does not even feel like any burn in is needed.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Are these ones on Amazon the same?

 https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07R8TPND5/ref=cm_sw_r_tw_dp_U_x_BUGJDbB40GAHS


----------



## vstolpner

Grayson73 said:


> Sound sig slightly warm, but great vocals, for mostly pop music.
> 
> If I were to only try 3, which 3 would you recommend, and which is your favorite for <$50?
> 
> ...



The first 3 on your list. I think you'll like Tranya T3's as they have the warmer sound signature, but they're also quite bassy.


----------



## webvan

Caipirina said:


> Tested & confirmed. Volume control present & same as Anbes
> 
> as for your ears ... this is where we all have our own stories. I actually started out with the Jabra Elite Sport, and liked that fullness. Today only my Havit G1 have tgat Form factor, and I am not a fan anymore.
> 
> ...



It's just that I find that the "fullness" holds in place better if you move around. The Anbes have a lot of "wiggling" room in my ears even if I tuck them in the bottom 

Have you listened to the G1 recently ? I tried them the other day and was pretty disappointed by their SQ compared to the Anbes, much less detail and clarity I found.


----------



## Grayson73

There was a lightning deal for the Tranya T3 $36 this morning.  Missed it!


----------



## mattedialdoc

Grayson73 said:


> Sound sig slightly warm, but great vocals, for mostly pop music.
> 
> If I were to only try 3, which 3 would you recommend, and which is your favorite for <$50?
> 
> ...



I prefer the B530 to the T3.


----------



## vstolpner

mattedialdoc said:


> I prefer the B530 to the T3.


The B530 is nice, but more than $50, and in find it sits somewhere between the T3 and Mpow T5. I like the balance and clarity of the T5 and the bass of the T3, so prefer to have both.


----------



## karloil

jlcsoft said:


> I´ve seen a you tube video with the review of the , Lypertek - Tevi, and he compares the sound to the senheisser momentum. It costs 90$. Perhaps the best tws under 100$. Has anyone tried them?.
> the links of the review and the brand
> 
> https://www.lypertek.com/product-page/lypertek-tevi-truly-wireless-earphones
> ...




Tried today and immediately purchased one. I arrived quite late at the audio shop, the attendant told me I was the 12th person to purchase today!

Some of the TWs that I've auditioned before, ranking them from highest to lowest in terms of my prefered SQ

1. Lypertek Tevi (Newly owned)
2. Sennheiser Momentum M3
3. Nuarl NT01AX
4. Jabra Elite 65t (Owned)
5. HifiMan TWS600
6. Sony WF-1000XM3
7. Bose SoundSport Free
8. Jabra Elite Sport (4.5 Battery life version)

The Tevi is a no brainer-purchase. Even if you blindly purchase it, you won't regret it. Price wise, it's cheap - but it's a heavy weight on specs - BT 5.0, 10 hours/charge (70 hours case charge), IPX7, Type C.

I agree with this review wholeheartedly:


----------



## clerkpalmer

karloil said:


> Tried today and immediately purchased one. I arrived quite late at the audio shop, the attendant told me I was the 12th person to purchase today!
> 
> Some of the TWs that I've auditioned before, ranking them from highest to lowest in terms of my prefered SQ
> 
> ...




Have you heard the mw07?


----------



## mattedialdoc (Sep 27, 2019)

vstolpner said:


> The B530 is nice, but more than $50, and in find it sits somewhere between the T3 and Mpow T5. I like the balance and clarity of the T5 and the bass of the T3, so prefer to have both.



That makes sense. If the T5 had touch control it would be in the running for me. The buttons just were not the best. That said, I have the Tevi coming and the have push buttons...hoping easier to press.


----------



## mattedialdoc

karloil said:


> Tried today and immediately purchased one. I arrived quite late at the audio shop, the attendant told me I was the 12th person to purchase today!
> 
> Some of the TWs that I've auditioned before, ranking them from highest to lowest in terms of my prefered SQ
> 
> ...




How were the push button controls? The reviewers thus far indicate they are easy to activate.


----------



## vstolpner

mattedialdoc said:


> That makes sense. If the T5 had touch control it would be in the running for me. The buttons just were not the best. That said, I have the Tevi coming and the have push buttons...hoping easier to press.



I actually prefer physical buttons...I like being able to throw the earbuds in the pocket for a few minutes and not worry about the buttons triggering


----------



## Caipirina

Stephan said:


> Are these ones on Amazon the same?
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07R8TPND5/ref=cm_sw_r_tw_dp_U_x_BUGJDbB40GAHS



Looks like it! and only 20.99!!!! 
the above link was not working for me ... so, this truncated one should work ... PPL .. anbes 359 clone for 20.99$  https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07R8TPND5/
only 14 left! 

(listened some more today and still convinced it's the same sound sig ... but then again, my ears are old)


----------



## webvan

I thought the call quality of the Momentum was bad but that video says it's excellent, was it improved with GW updates?


----------



## karloil (Sep 27, 2019)

mattedialdoc said:


> How were the push button controls? The reviewers thus far indicate they are easy to activate.



Quite easy enough. Comparing it with the 65t, the buttons on the Tevi is just a tad bit 'harder' to push. Doesn't bother me though as I'm mostly on my phone and do the necessary changes there.


----------



## Grayson73 (Sep 27, 2019)

Some deals on Amazon.  Any of these better than price point?

GoNovate $30 (list price $70)
https://www.amazon.com/GoNovate-Incredible-Cancelling-Waterproof-Continuous/dp/B07SN9Q7JV

Dveda $32 (list price $70)
https://www.amazon.com/Wireless-Dveda-Headphones-Noise-Cancelling-Waterproof/dp/B07PM383ZW/

iTeknic $26 (list price $46)
https://www.amazon.com/iTeknic-Bluetooth-Headphones-Wireless-Waterproof/dp/B07R9SX7HG/

Meidong $43 (list price $61)
https://www.amazon.com/Bluetooth-Headphones-KY06-Waterproof-Rchargable/dp/B07TD4VDRY/

ENACFIRE E18 $30 (list price $46)
https://www.amazon.com/ENACFIRE-Bluetooth-Waterproof-Headphones-Microphone/dp/B07SQNPWT7/

GUSGU $36 (list price $50)
https://www.amazon.com/GUSGU-Bluetooth-Cancelling-Waterproof-Headphones/dp/B07TD7S8L7/

Panfrey $40 (list price $53)
https://www.amazon.com/PANFREY-Bluetooth5-0-Cancelling-Earphones-Waterproof/dp/B07TWPS4X1/

AMuoc $35 (list price $46)
https://www.amazon.com/Amuoc-Bluetooth-Headphones-Sweat-Proof-Earphones/dp/B07VK5KF6Y


----------



## FYLegend

Caipirina said:


> I received those SSK UFO buds https://s.click.aliexpress.com/e/L3FyQ9hm today, only 9 days after ordering... and after a/b-ing same songs (using same ear tips) I am reasonably confident that they sound exactly like my Anbes 359. Does not even feel like any burn in is needed.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Does it have mono mode with each bud? The version without volume control has this but the Monster and Coolhere versions can only use a single bud

Also it looks like theres a Lenovo branded version that has different housings, but even the manual looks like the rebrands.

C$ 47.13 | Original Lenovo R1 TWS Earphone Wireless Bluetooth Earbuds UFO Design ACC Audio Decoding IPX5 Waterproof 12 Hours Playing Time
https://s.click.aliexpress.com/e/dprHHpyM


----------



## Grayson73 (Sep 27, 2019)

Caipirina said:


> Looks like it! and only 20.99!!!!
> the above link was not working for me ... so, this truncated one should work ... PPL .. anbes 359 clone for 20.99$  https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07R8TPND5/
> only 14 left!
> 
> (listened some more today and still convinced it's the same sound sig ... but then again, my ears are old)



You have both the Anbes 359 and the SSK and they sound the same?  I was considering the 359 or Kissral R18 which is supposedly a clone, but if this is the same at $21, no brainer!  I just ordered the SSK.


----------



## vstolpner

Another review of the Tevi - this time comparing them to Sennheiser Momentum's. It's actually sounding more and more like a slight upgrade over the Mpow T5's. 

Anyone getting the Tevi's also have the T5's?


----------



## cwill

Caipirina said:


> Looks like it! and only 20.99!!!!
> the above link was not working for me ... so, this truncated one should work ... PPL .. anbes 359 clone for 20.99$  https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07R8TPND5/
> only 14 left!
> 
> (listened some more today and still convinced it's the same sound sig ... but then again, my ears are old)


This link isn't working for me either.


----------



## vstolpner

cwill said:


> This link isn't working for me either.



https://www.amazon.com/SSK-Bluetooth-Headphones-Sweatproof-Microphone/dp/B07R8TPND5

Wasn't formatted correctly


----------



## HiFlight

karloil said:


> Tried today and immediately purchased one. I arrived quite late at the audio shop, the attendant told me I was the 12th person to purchase today!
> 
> Some of the TWs that I've auditioned before, ranking them from highest to lowest in terms of my prefered SQ
> 
> ...



The Tevi looks exactly like the B&O E8.


----------



## d3myz

vstolpner said:


> I did that this morning actually - no response


Dang, well they are in Hong Kong. So if your up still, maybe now is a better time.


vstolpner said:


> Another review of the Tevi - this time comparing them to Sennheiser Momentum's. It's actually sounding more and more like a slight upgrade over the Mpow T5's.
> 
> Anyone getting the Tevi's also have the T5's?



I do, my Tevi's will be here tomorrow.


----------



## Grayson73

Tranya T3 is $39.99 on Amazon after $10 coupon.  https://www.amazon.com/Bluetooth-Wireless-Headphones-Continuous-Earphones/dp/B07KW1TNSM/


----------



## vstolpner

d3myz said:


> Dang, well they are in Hong Kong. So if your up still, maybe now is a better time.
> 
> I do, my Tevi's will be here tomorrow.



I'm in the +8 timezone, so almost lunch for me. I noticed they read it but no response so likely not interested.

Let me know how they compare to the T5's


----------



## d3myz

vstolpner said:


> https://www.amazon.com/SSK-Bluetooth-Headphones-Sweatproof-Microphone/dp/B07R8TPND5
> 
> Wasn't formatted correctly


I've tried 2 different Anbes looking clones, both made by yineme, the cylinder case ones sounded decent, but missing bass, the circular case like the 359's had excellent detail really crisp highs and really prominent vocals but pretty much no bass as well.


----------



## vstolpner

d3myz said:


> I've tried 2 different Anbes looking clones, both made by yineme, the cylinder case ones sounded decent, but missing bass, the circular case like the 359's had excellent detail really crisp highs and really prominent vocals but pretty much no bass as well.



In fairness, the 359's don't have that much bass...  Are those just completely missing it?


----------



## cwill

d3myz said:


> I've tried 2 different Anbes looking clones, both made by yineme, the cylinder case ones sounded decent, but missing bass, the circular case like the 359's had excellent detail really crisp highs and really prominent vocals but pretty much no bass as well.


They are lacking in bass, but make up for it EVERYWHERE else. Love mine. And really, there is enough bass. They're just well balanced and detailed.


----------



## d3myz

vstolpner said:


> The B530 is nice, but more than $50, and in find it sits somewhere between the T3 and Mpow T5. I like the balance and clarity of the T5 and the bass of the T3, so prefer to have both.


Same, i'm returning my B530's Can't justify the $60 cost and they hurt my ears after wearing them for more than an hour.


----------



## Grayson73

There are so many Chi-Fi on Amazon, it's crazy.  Anyone try these?

Aikela $34 after coupon (list price $80)
https://www.amazon.com/AIKELA-Bluetooth-Headphones-Canceling-Waterproof/dp/B07VP2ZV8S


----------



## Grayson73

d3myz said:


> I've tried 2 different Anbes looking clones, both made by yineme, the cylinder case ones sounded decent, but missing bass, the circular case like the 359's had excellent detail really crisp highs and really prominent vocals but pretty much no bass as well.



Are you saying the 359 have bass but the clones don't, so they are not true clones?


----------



## mattedialdoc

Question:
For those of you/us that are trying different TWS and returning to Amazon USA: Is there a point at which Amazon will question the number of product returns? I’ve only had a few but expect you veterans have had a bunch. Thanks.


----------



## d3myz

vstolpner said:


> In fairness, the 359's don't have that much bass...  Are those just completely missing it?


Well, compared to these two lets just say the 359's have Very Good Bass. LOL, but the circular Yingeme's top end is surprisingly nice, they make the anbes sound someowhat muffled. I'd say they have near the same clarity as the B530's but the mids are much more boosted even more so than the T5, the vocals are very prominent and the reset of the music is in the background, not very well balanced.


----------



## d3myz

mattedialdoc said:


> Question:
> For those of you/us that are trying different TWS and returning to Amazon USA: Is there a point at which Amazon will question the number of product returns? I’ve only had a few but expect you veterans have had a bunch. Thanks.


I don't know of an exact number, but the more you buy and keep, the more you can buy and return. I'm about to return 10 products I bought last week, but I bought 5 that i'm keeping, so we'll see how it goes. fingers crossed.


----------



## Grayson73

d3myz said:


> I don't know of an exact number, but the more you buy and keep, the more you can buy and return. I'm about to return 10 products I bought last week, but I bought 5 that i'm keeping, so we'll see how it goes. fingers crossed.



Wow, you need to put all of the ones you've tried in preferred order in your profile or signature


----------



## FYLegend

Wondering if anyone here can confirm whether Lypertek Tevis support a USB-PD connection for charging?

Here's a list so far based off personal experience as well as other user comments here:
USB-C-to-A only: Astrotec S60, Anbes 359/BE30 UFO, RHA TrueConnect, Jabees Firefly/Firefly Pro
USB-C-to-C support:  Earfun Free, Sabbat E12, Sony WF-1000XM3



d3myz said:


> I've tried 2 different Anbes looking clones, both made by yineme, the cylinder case ones sounded decent, but missing bass, the circular case like the 359's had excellent detail really crisp highs and really prominent vocals but pretty much no bass as well.





d3myz said:


> Well, compared to these two lets just say the 359's have Very Good Bass. LOL, but the circular Yingeme's top end is surprisingly nice, they make the anbes sound someowhat muffled. I'd say they have near the same clarity as the B530's but the mids are much more boosted even more so than the T5, the vocals are very prominent and the reset of the music is in the background, not very well balanced.



Does either of them have USB-C port? Your impression sounds like my first pair off Aliexpress, branded "Coolhere UFO", which had a really airy, detailed sound, but sadly one side had way too much bass. It seemed more like this was down to DSP EQ rather than hardware, because I could hear the highs clip with piano sounds. Is volume control a button hold (as on this one) or double-tap? The BE30 Air is more balanced with tamer highs but almost sounds muddled in comparison. Sucks Anbes seems gone for good they had a wireless-charging USB-C TWS announced but I haven't seen any updates or reviews on it.


----------



## d3myz

Grayson73 said:


> Are you saying the 359 have bass but the clones don't, so they are not true clones?


Depends on your def. of a clone. To me a clone looks similar or exactly like another TWS' but the tuning will almost always be different. I haven't once ran into a Clone with the same sound signature as the original. latest example is the Lystar J29 and the Veatool J29. Exactly the same except the logo, different tuning, the Lystars sound much better. You could even claim they are a clone of the Anbes 360, not exact in form factor, but very close, the 360's dont' sound near as good.


----------



## Detrailer

So i just bought Lypertek Tevi over the Galaxy buds. Hope i made the right choice sound-wise.
Any opinions? (thanks in advance)


----------



## hifi80sman

I enjoy bass and think the Anbes 359 have great bass.  There are so many clones around that may use different drivers, SoC, etc., so it's hard to say.  Other than the Kissral, which feedback seems to indicate is the same as the Anbes 359, not sure about all the other clones.  Also, there were different versions of the Anbes 359, but the one that seems to be the "real" one is the version in the black box, which seems to be hard to get now.


----------



## hifi80sman

Dammit.  Had to...

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07V9ZMDX7/


----------



## llmgtab

FYLegend said:


> Wondering if anyone here can confirm whether Lypertek Tevis support a USB-PD connection for charging?
> 
> Here's a list so far based off personal experience as well as other user comments here:
> USB-C-to-A only: Astrotec S60, Anbes 359/BE30 UFO, RHA TrueConnect, Jabees Firefly/Firefly Pro
> USB-C-to-C support:  Earfun Free, Sabbat E12, Sony WF-1000XM3


I have only charged my Tevis at work so far with my hard wired phone charger, not sure if that counts. https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B0719KV9PH/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1 I just plugged the case into my USB C to C charger and it appears to be charging, can report back in a bit if it get fully charged. If they don't support it will they just not recognize it at all?


----------



## Grayson73

d3myz said:


> Depends on your def. of a clone. To me a clone looks similar or exactly like another TWS' but the tuning will almost always be different. I haven't once ran into a Clone with the same sound signature as the original. latest example is the Lystar J29 and the Veatool J29. Exactly the same except the logo, different tuning, the Lystars sound much better. You could even claim they are a clone of the Anbes 360, not exact in form factor, but very close, the 360's dont' sound near as good.



I see.  My definition of clone is that they are the exact same except for the brand.  For example, Takstar Pro 80 and Gemini HSR-1000 are the same headphones.  Caipirina said that the SSK sound identical to the Anbes 359, so I ordered the SSK for $21.  I wonder if anyone compared the 359 to the Kisrall R18 to confirm that those are also identical.


----------



## clerkpalmer

hifi80sman said:


> Dammit.  Had to...
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07V9ZMDX7/


Pricey.


----------



## clerkpalmer

I preordered the anker pro. I have no idea why.


----------



## karloil

FYLegend said:


> Wondering if anyone here can confirm whether Lypertek Tevis support a USB-PD connection for charging?



Just tried now and its charging alright. I doubt it's even using PD. I suspect the charger just throttles down both Voltage and Current and just operates as a normal 5V/1-2A charger.


----------



## d3myz

Grayson73 said:


> Wow, you need to put all of the ones you've tried in preferred order in your profile or signature


It would be a waste of time, honestly. There are only like 3 or 5 i've found that are worth keeping with my criteria. Volume Control, Voice Asst., IPX 5 or higher, 6-10 hour battery life. sound sig. varies, but my tops are the same as everyone else's and the order isn't really best to worst, because they all have different uses for diff moods. (not all of them fit my criteria above, just fyi)

1. Anbes 359 
2. MPOW T5
3. Tranya B530
4. Tranya T3
5. Tiso i4 (Ipx 4 I think and no vol. control) 
6. Bomaker SiFi (The bass is there, but it's not nearly enough, great clarity and build quality) These are the fastest connection TWS' i've used. great chipset.
7. OFUSHO F16 (Great bass, but they are giant battleships and without an EQ, the mid bass bleeds and the high mids just aren't enough for me. Overall they are a quality TWS')
8. Lystar J29's (admittedly these are kind of  cheap and crappy, tons of driver flex, but they have a bright sound signature, wide sound stage, slightly boosted mids and there's something about them I really love.)


----------



## cwill

clerkpalmer said:


> I preordered the anker pro. I have no idea why.


Addiction.


----------



## CardigdanWalk

What a month.

my KZ T1 were stolen, just the headphones, they left the charging case behind which is even more bizarre.

And now the right side of my BT20 has died, it’s really strange, it still powers on and pairs, and the button can stop and start music, and the IEMS work when on other cables, and the left side plays ... so it’s like the cable connecting the insides to the IEM has stopped working, maybe it got twisted in my pocket? But don’t think it’s fixable?

So choices
- MPOW T5
- BT20S (to use with KZ ZS5)

Thoughts?


----------



## clerkpalmer

CardigdanWalk said:


> What a month.
> 
> my KZ T1 were stolen, just the headphones, they left the charging case behind which is even more bizarre.
> 
> ...



If you need sweat resistance, T5 is a very good option.  Pure SQ, go with the BT20S every day of the week.


----------



## hifi80sman

clerkpalmer said:


> I preordered the anker pro. I have no idea why.


They look great and the marketing piece is stellar.  $99 is a great price for what it looks like they offer, but I'll wait for some feedback.  I can play the long game on those and get a few things now, let the waters die down, then make another splash purchase.  Plus, I hate pre-ordering, as there were cases where my unit arrived *after *I saw them in stock at Best Buy, Amazon, etc.  Speaking of Best Buy, it seems they have the Anker Soundcore Liberty Air 2 in stock for $99, enen though the website says coming soon.  Might check those out.


----------



## d3myz

hifi80sman said:


> I enjoy bass and think the Anbes 359 have great bass.  There are so many clones around that may use different drivers, SoC, etc., so it's hard to say.  Other than the Kissral, which feedback seems to indicate is the same as the Anbes 359, not sure about all the other clones.  Also, there were different versions of the Anbes 359, but the one that seems to be the "real" one is the version in the black box, which seems to be hard to get now.


I actually have two versions of the 359, exactly the same, but different packaging, one has a small square box with a glossy surface, the other a larger box with a matte surface. They sound identical.


----------



## Caipirina

Grayson73 said:


> You have both the Anbes 359 and the SSK and they sound the same?  I was considering the 359 or Kissral R18 which is supposedly a clone, but if this is the same at $21, no brainer!  I just ordered the SSK.


Yes, I have both and did some a/b to check if they sound the same https://www.head-fi.org/threads/goi...re-we-there-yet.861024/page-827#post-15212318


----------



## Caipirina

cwill said:


> This link isn't working for me either.


Copy paste into browser? Look for SSK TWS.


----------



## assassin10000

CardigdanWalk said:


> What a month.
> 
> my KZ T1 were stolen, just the headphones, they left the charging case behind which is even more bizarre.
> 
> ...



If you have a sacrificial cable and some soldering/tinkering skills, you can replace the cable part of the bt20. I did it to my bt20s after breaking the wires inside.


----------



## Blueshound24 (Sep 27, 2019)

Blueshound24 said:


> Ok, this is *definitely* comparing apples to oranges. And I realize the following examples are in many degrees higher priced than the typical TWS.
> 
> And I am not good at describing my prefered audio signature, so I will list my preference for IEM's and cans that I have heard. That would be *ES Velvet*, *UE TF10*, *GR07 BE*, *Roxanne* and *U18t*.
> And re: headphones, favs are *TH900*, *Elear*, *AH-D7000* and *HD700, *and probably the *HD800* but have never heard them, just going by reviews.
> ...




It seems the majority of posts here are talking about more of the budget TWS, and that what was recommended to me on prior posts.

However, I am not adverse to spending more to get better sound.
Something like the full size can HD650 has fallen a little out of favor with me due to my perception of rolled off treble with them. So maybe what I'm looking for is a slight V or U shaped sig, if that would fit the above mentioned favs of mine?

The only ones I've tried were the TWS600 and they were good, clear sounding, no bass bleed, but a little too mid-centric and lack of bass for me.

So, any thought on a good recommendation for me? Or, maybe something coming up in the future?

Maybe one of these current ones? I read some good comments on the Galaxy Buds.
LYPERTEK - TEVI
Sennheiser Momentum
MW07
NUARL
Creative Outlier Gold
Samsung Galaxy Buds 2019
Sony WF-1000XM3

TIA


----------



## d3myz

hifi80sman said:


> They look great and the marketing piece is stellar.  $99 is a great price for what it looks like they offer, but I'll wait for some feedback.  I can play the long game on those and get a few things now, let the waters die down, then make another splash purchase.  Plus, I hate pre-ordering, as there were cases where my unit arrived *after *I saw them in stock at Best Buy, Amazon, etc.  Speaking of Best Buy, it seems they have the Anker Soundcore Liberty Air 2 in stock for $99, enen though the website says coming soon.  Might check those out.


Because your a BADASS!


----------



## HiFlight

Blueshound24 said:


> It seems the majority of posts here are talking about more of the budget TWS, and that what was recommended to me on prior posts.
> 
> However, I am not adverse to spending more to get better sound.
> Something like the full size can HD650 has fallen a little out of favor with me due to my perception of rolled off treble with them. So maybe what I'm looking for is a slight V or U shaped sig, if that would fit the above mentioned favs of mine?
> ...


Maybe check out the Libratone Track Air+   Looked promising enough for me to order it from Amazon UK and have a friend ship it to me.  Impressions to follow arrival.


----------



## clerkpalmer

Whelp, my MMCX BT20S arrived and I tried to pair them up with my Dunu T6 and low and behold, the placement of the MMCX on the IEM makes them incompatible with the BT20S.  So, that stinks.  Anyone recommend a nice MMCX IEM to pair with the BT20S?


----------



## clerkpalmer

Ankers' us distributor is called strangely named. "fantasia trading."  Not exactly the charge I want my wife to see on my credit card.  She might actually prefer such a charge to more headphones


----------



## Iron-Buddha

Blueshound24 said:


> Maybe one of these current ones? I read some good comments on the Galaxy Buds.
> LYPERTEK - TEVI
> Sennheiser Momentum
> MW07
> ...



I have the Tevi’s in transit.   Seems promising, especially the call quality.  I hate getting a call and having to fiddle with Bluetooth connections to go back to my phone.    Will drop my comparisons to the Sabbat E12 and my Beoplay E8.

As for spending more, I did (bought the E8 when it came out).   Don’t think it’s worth it.   The tech changes so fast and TW tend to fall out and get lost.  Nevermind the internal battery will only last 3 years ish.  Your money though so do what you please.


----------



## d3myz (Sep 27, 2019)

webvan said:


> It's just that I find that the "fullness" holds in place better if you move around. The Anbes have a lot of "wiggling" room in my ears even if I tuck them in the bottom
> 
> Have you listened to the G1 recently ? I tried them the other day and was pretty disappointed by their SQ compared to the Anbes, much less detail and clarity I found.


Which are the same as the Anbes? The Kissral?

Don't answer this, I found it. I was on my work computer and it wasn't displaying the images due to our stupid firewall.


----------



## d3myz

clerkpalmer said:


> Ankers' us distributor is called strangely named. "fantasia trading."  Not exactly the charge I want my wife to see on my credit card.  She might actually prefer such a charge to more headphones


I saw that too and was like WTH did I just buy?


----------



## clerkpalmer (Sep 27, 2019)

d3myz said:


> I saw that too and was like WTH did I just buy?



It's not everyday your benign headphone purchase can be confused with internet porn.


----------



## Blueshound24

Iron-Buddha said:


> I have the Tevi’s in transit.   Seems promising, especially the call quality.  I hate getting a call and having to fiddle with Bluetooth connections to go back to my phone.    Will drop my comparisons to the Sabbat E12 and my Beoplay E8.
> 
> As for spending more, I did (bought the E8 when it came out).   Don’t think it’s worth it.   *The tech changes so fast* and TW tend to fall out and get lost.  *Nevermind the internal battery will only last 3 years ish*.  Your money though so do what you please.




I appreciate your very good points, so ya, I guess I don't want to go overboard. I probably don't want to invest too much at this time, no more than $150, or even way less if possible.


----------



## Bartig

d3myz said:


> I saw that too and was like WTH did I just buy?


Hahaha <3


----------



## webvan (Oct 25, 2019)

HiFlight said:


> Maybe check out the Libratone Track Air+   Looked promising enough for me to order it from Amazon UK and have a friend ship it to me.  Impressions to follow arrival.



I've had the WH-1000XM3 and the Libratone Track Air+ for a couple of weeks now and...I'm not sure I'm keeping either of them, here are my pros and cons :

Libratone Track Air+ :
Pros : size, case, weight, decent mics for calls, ANC kills low droning sounds, smart ambient mode that turns down music
Cons : only one control per bud, ANC mics always on so can't be used to ride a bike as they pick up wind (fedit : found out by accident that the 11 setting fixes that problem for some reason.), it's hard to make head or tails of the ANC levels (there is some white noise between 0 and 10 that goes away at 11, and the comes back at 20!!!), can pop out of ear when talking (even with Complys), sound is "bland" (the 65t sound "lively" in comparison) and bass light and bright/harsh, even with the "bass boosted" setting, it's just not a very pleasant listen, the complete opposite to the Anbes 359 for those who have them.

Sonys WF-1000xm3 :
- Pros : Sound is pleasing (deep bass but slightly recessed mids and highs), better ANC but not on par with QC25 for example, ANC can be turned off so ok for bike riding (no wind noise)
- Cons : Bulk, stick out like a sore thumb, provided tips are poor require Complys for decent fit/seal/comfort/hold and they wear out quick, the Final E did help a bit, but they still slip out in the end, case is huge, poor mics for calls

I'm not really convinced by either compared to some good comfortable TWS with good isolation, decent sound and excellent mics like the Jabra 65T but if pressed I'd go with the Track Air +


----------



## Slater

FYLegend said:


>



I'm surprised they went with piezos. After owning a number of them, they reaaaaaly need serious power to perform their best. Which, for TWS, is not the best choice.


----------



## Slater

Caipirina said:


> this is a weird way to derive an acronym : first/ last letter, first / last letter. But there is no S in experience. .... weird



Yeah, that's pretty dumb.

I would have called it MAX (*M*ultiple *A*udio e*X*perience). Sounds much better than MEAOES.


----------



## wardigi

actorlife said:


> Free. Just pay shipping
> https://hoolieshop.com/collections/...CVPya5USCVA1bW52ZqSNIZ6ziacqZJDnJOwj2CLLchQlQ



Ended up being a scam and never received items..


----------



## d3myz

clerkpalmer said:


> It's not everyday your benign headphone purchase can be confused with internet porn.


 It's probably a good think my wife never looks at my paypal statement.


----------



## d3myz

wardigi said:


> Ended up being a scam and never received items..


Damn, Sorry to hear that. I almost pulled the trigger, but I already have 2 pairs.


----------



## Slater

clerkpalmer said:


> Ankers' us distributor is called strangely named. "fantasia trading."  Not exactly the charge I want my wife to see on my credit card.  She might actually prefer such a charge to more headphones



Just tell her that you're trying to spice things up...



























































...in your ears!


----------



## vstolpner

wardigi said:


> Ended up being a scam and never received items..



That's a shame, I'm sorry. And here I was kicking myself for missing it :-/

For what it's worth, that Facebook group giving stuff away for reviews seems to be legitimate... Got a pair of earphones and left a 4* review. Got the purchase price less taxes back, so only ended up paying $5 for a pretty decent Christmas gift! :-D


----------



## d3myz

Grayson73 said:


> There are so many Chi-Fi on Amazon, it's crazy.  Anyone try these?
> 
> Aikela $34 after coupon (list price $80)
> https://www.amazon.com/AIKELA-Bluetooth-Headphones-Canceling-Waterproof/dp/B07VP2ZV8S




I just got done demoing thos, GRDE's.Not really great bass and the sound quality is slightly above average, but they are great for audiobooks and you may like them. I only used them for a day or so, but everything else about them is fantastic. The touch and controls work well, they are comfy and the power bank is nice. If you want to get them for free message AYYIE on FB and ask them to demo the wireless earbuds. You can also get this SWEET power bank for free. It's a hard 5 star item, Usb-c 3.0a output, solar, wireless charging, Flashlight and 26800 MAH.  I'll show you my review if you want. anyway, good luck. those buds aren't a bad deal for free.


----------



## d3myz

cwill said:


> They are lacking in bass, but make up for it EVERYWHERE else. Love mine. And really, there is enough bass. They're just well balanced and detailed.


Do you have the T5? I would consider that more balanced than the S3, I think it's called. The S3 really sings, but the mids are really boosted toward the high end.


----------



## d3myz

FYLegend said:


> Wondering if anyone here can confirm whether Lypertek Tevis support a USB-PD connection for charging?
> 
> Here's a list so far based off personal experience as well as other user comments here:
> USB-C-to-A only: Astrotec S60, Anbes 359/BE30 UFO, RHA TrueConnect, Jabees Firefly/Firefly Pro
> ...



No, neither of them have USB-C, yea could be, they both has the same amount of bass, but the S3 (UFO style) one's had really nice detail and bumped up high mids. I didn't notice any clipping or sibilance and I had them cranked.


----------



## d3myz

karloil said:


> Just tried now and its charging alright. I doubt it's even using PD. I suspect the charger just throttles down both Voltage and Current and just operates as a normal 5V/1-2A charger.


Makes sense, I would highly doubt  that it has a chip in the battery to support PD, but someone smarter than me like @Slater or whoever it was that was detailing TWS's drivers a while back would know far more than I. I do know that i've tested 3 different TWS' this week that had USB-C and two of them would not charge without their proprietary chord, so weird, but USB-C is much less standardized than most know. All the cables have different Power and speed ratings etc. Sorry, if you already know this.


----------



## d3myz

CardigdanWalk said:


> What a month.
> 
> my KZ T1 were stolen, just the headphones, they left the charging case behind which is even more bizarre.
> 
> ...


Both!


----------



## d3myz

vstolpner said:


> That's a shame, I'm sorry. And here I was kicking myself for missing it :-/
> 
> For what it's worth, that Facebook group giving stuff away for reviews seems to be legitimate... Got a pair of earphones and left a 4* review. Got the purchase price less taxes back, so only ended up paying $5 for a pretty decent Christmas gift! :-D


I've reviewed 8 free TWS's this week. It seem that most of them are all pretty good quality, well built, comfy and the features work well, but the sound, man, the sound is just average on most of them.


----------



## LordToneeus

clerkpalmer said:


> Whelp, my MMCX BT20S arrived and I tried to pair them up with my Dunu T6 and low and behold, the placement of the MMCX on the IEM makes them incompatible with the BT20S.  So, that stinks.  Anyone recommend a nice MMCX IEM to pair with the BT20S?



Mine arrives tomorrow, and I’m gonna try it with Shure SE215 and Westone UM 30 Pro. I’ll report back.


----------



## LordToneeus

CardigdanWalk said:


> What a month.
> 
> my KZ T1 were stolen, just the headphones, they left the charging case behind which is even more bizarre.
> 
> ...



I revisited my KZ ZS5 today after a long while, and I just didn’t dig it. It doesn’t handle my busy heavy metal music very well. The KZ ZSTs? Love them.


----------



## LordToneeus

hifi80sman said:


> Dammit.  Had to...
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07V9ZMDX7/



I was tempted by those too. Can’t wait to hear back.


----------



## FYLegend (Sep 27, 2019)

d3myz said:


> Makes sense, I would highly doubt  that it has a chip in the battery to support PD, but someone smarter than me like @Slater or whoever it was that was detailing TWS's drivers a while back would know far more than I. I do know that i've tested 3 different TWS' this week that had USB-C and two of them would not charge without their proprietary chord, so weird, but USB-C is much less standardized than most know. All the cables have different Power and speed ratings etc. Sorry, if you already know this.


I'm wondering which devices did you use and were they Type C to A cables?  I've had no problem with my Samsung Type C to Type A cables charging any of them, even though Jabees did said to only use the bundled cable. However I do wonder if using a quick charge brick has screwed up the capacity calibration for Earfun Free or Firefly Pro. Jianan Li had a video showing the solution to incompatible devices was to solder resistors to the connector but it appears few manufacturers have done this or had Type C to C in mind. It's not as important for me as I use Type C to A more often for charging, but seeing the Note 10, ASUS and Google Pixel phones come with PD cables, as well as laptops nowadays, I can definitely see it as a dealbreaker if you're unable to charge them without the bundled cable.

Well, I was mainly referring to whether it connects to a USB C to C cable, not PD in the strictest terms of power. I get that most still have their power throttled down to 5V/1A, and suspect most USB C TWS is just the connector and they natively only support a USB 2.0 connection.


----------



## cwill

d3myz said:


> Do you have the T5? I would consider that more balanced than the S3, I think it's called. The S3 really sings, but the mids are really boosted toward the high end.


I have the T5, and Kissral R18 (Anbes 359). The T5 is muddy in comparison.


----------



## chinmie

Blueshound24 said:


> It seems the majority of posts here are talking about more of the budget TWS, and that what was recommended to me on prior posts.
> 
> However, I am not adverse to spending more to get better sound.
> Something like the full size can HD650 has fallen a little out of favor with me due to my perception of rolled off treble with them. So maybe what I'm looking for is a slight V or U shaped sig, if that would fit the above mentioned favs of mine?
> ...



out of that list I've only tried the Galaxy buds and Nuarl. Both sound great, Nuarl has more fuller midbass bloom while the Galaxy buds has a lean and clean mids. i prefer the Galaxy 's sound, also for the better fit, smaller case, apps, ambient mode, and wireless charging. also Samsung service centers are more readily available in my city. 

Lypertek seems compelling and might be on similar sound signature as the Galaxy and a bit cheaper, but the whole package of the Galaxy buds is more compelling. i won't be blind purchase the Tevi unless i audition it first



clerkpalmer said:


> Whelp, my MMCX BT20S arrived and I tried to pair them up with my Dunu T6 and low and behold, the placement of the MMCX on the IEM makes them incompatible with the BT20S.  So, that stinks.  Anyone recommend a nice MMCX IEM to pair with the BT20S?



have you tried re-shape the cable? I'm not familiar with the Dunu, but almost all of my IEMs have a nice fit with the BT20s after reshaping the cable


----------



## vstolpner

cwill said:


> I have the T5, and Kissral R18 (Anbes 359). The T5 is muddy in comparison.



Then you probably got a bad T5... Mine is crystal clear.


----------



## cwill

vstolpner said:


> Then you probably got a bad T5... Mine is crystal clear.


I've had them 2 different times.


----------



## Caipirina

webvan said:


> Have you listened to the G1 recently ? I tried them the other day and was pretty disappointed by their SQ compared to the Anbes, much less detail and clarity I found.



I was never very smitten by the G1's SQ ... nor any of the other Havits I tried ...  they are ok buds, but not heavy in my rotation


----------



## Caipirina

CardigdanWalk said:


> What a month.
> 
> my KZ T1 were stolen, just the headphones, they left the charging case behind which is even more bizarre.
> 
> ...



Both


----------



## hifi80sman

vstolpner said:


> Then you probably got a bad T5... Mine is crystal clear.


Totally second that.  They are certainly far from muddy.  I have some muddy earbuds, for sure, but these are definitely not one of them.

I have to think there were issues with seal, perhaps the angle in which they fit in your ears, or a defective pair.


----------



## cwill

hifi80sman said:


> Totally second that.  They are certainly far from muddy.  I have some muddy earbuds, for sure, but these are definitely not one of them.
> 
> I have to think there were issues with seal, perhaps the angle in which they fit in your ears, or a defective pair.


Seal is good. I even used Comply with them. Maybe a better word is dark?


----------



## Luchyres (Sep 27, 2019)

Heard back from Anker re: volume control on liberty pro 2:

"Please note that there is no default volume button for this item but you can adjust the volume by the button on the earbuds after you set the item via customizing commands on the Soundcore APP. ".

He included a diagram of the default button press commands - but the fact that you can customize button presses via the app for volume seems promising... I'd probably just make it hold 1 second either side - and ditch the voice assistant.


----------



## howdy (Sep 28, 2019)

I have a real hard time believing when some say the XM3 sound worse than Jabra 65t. I have both and the Sony are leaps and bounds better in every aspect, the Jabtas may have it in call quality.
I myself still prefer the XM3 over the Senn MTW ( I have these as well for direct comparison).
Can't wait to buy the MW07 plus! They can't come out soon enough!


----------



## d3myz (Sep 27, 2019)

cwill said:


> I have the T5, and Kissral R18 (Anbes 359). The T5 is muddy in comparison.



Interesting, My 359's are not as bright sounding as my T5's I have two pair of each and if you want to hear Muddy, pick up the OFUSHO F16.


----------



## chinmie

newest UFO has entered the atmosphere


----------



## karloil

Detrailer said:


> So i just bought Lypertek Tevi over the Galaxy buds. Hope i made the right choice sound-wise.
> Any opinions? (thanks in advance)



IMO, I believe you did. 



d3myz said:


> Makes sense, I would highly doubt  that it has a chip in the battery to support PD, but someone smarter than me like @Slater or whoever it was that was detailing TWS's drivers a while back would know far more than I. I do know that i've tested 3 different TWS' this week that had USB-C and two of them would not charge without their proprietary chord, so weird, but USB-C is much less standardized than most know. All the cables have different Power and speed ratings etc. Sorry, if you already know this.



Yes, I'm aware that USB C cables are not made equal - also due to the part that USB C standard has progressed very well, which caused a lot of confusion - especially with the introduction of PD. Every element in the chain has to have PD component/or is certified in order for PD to be enabled fully - else, it will just fall back to normal voltage/ampere ratings. Similar concept with Quick Charge.


----------



## dwil

Hi guys. Need your guidance. 

I wanna buy my first pair of tws iems, but i'm kinda stumped regarding which one to buy. 

I had decided on buying the mifo o5, but then I found out it doesn't support aptx. 

I really wanted something with a small shell and a shape similar to that of the mifo o5. 

Does anyone know of any other iems similar to the mifo o5's shell, but with aptx support? The 100hour battery life isn't really a necessity.


----------



## vstolpner

dwil said:


> Hi guys. Need your guidance.
> 
> I wanna buy my first pair of tws iems, but i'm kinda stumped regarding which one to buy.
> 
> ...



No aptX, but the Shanling MTW100 are an improvement over the mifo O5. Were you considering the Professional BA version or standard DD?

And what sound signature are you interested in? That's going to play a big part into the suggestion.

And I've found AAC has great audio quality - not sure that aptX gives that big of an improvement.


----------



## vstolpner

cwill said:


> Seal is good. I even used Comply with them. Maybe a better word is dark?



Same thing... Wouldn't call the T5's dark... Or warm... I mean the Anbes 359 are a little brighter, but only marginally so...

Again - maybe you just had a bad batch... Unless Mpow did something with their tuning...?


----------



## dwil

vstolpner said:


> No aptX, but the Shanling MTW100 are an improvement over the mifo O5. Were you considering the Professional BA version or standard DD?
> 
> And what sound signature are you interested in? That's going to play a big part into the suggestion.
> 
> And I've found AAC has great audio quality - not sure that aptX gives that big of an improvement.



 I was going to buy the dynamic driver mifo o5... I have enough wired iems and headphones for critical listening, these just need to be laid back with good warm sound signature and impactful bass.

Is there anything with aptx that uses a shell a small as the mifo o5 shell?


----------



## CardigdanWalk

d3myz said:


> Both!



hahaha

love it. (And I’m tempted)

but if I was spending that money, I could go for the Shanling MTW100 BA model. Would that also be better value for money?

(Why do I have a suspicion you are going to say buy all three!)


----------



## RobinFood

CardigdanWalk said:


> hahaha
> 
> love it. (And I’m tempted)
> 
> ...



I love the way BA drivers sound. If it had aptx it would be a no  brainer
for me to get the shanling. They are also a solid company that you can rely on as opposed to random letter name first time Chinese tws companies.


----------



## Bartig

Tranya B530, Creative Outlier, Edifier TWS5, Sabbat E12 Ultra, Whizzer B6 and the Shanling MTW100 BA is still coming my way.

MAN, the midrange is on fire these days!


----------



## mattedialdoc

Have any of you guys tried the TRN TWS T200 yet?
Thanks!


----------



## cwill

vstolpner said:


> Same thing... Wouldn't call the T5's dark... Or warm... I mean the Anbes 359 are a little brighter, but only marginally so...
> 
> Again - maybe you just had a bad batch... Unless Mpow did something with their tuning...?


Maybe I need different tips. Does anyone know the size for the T5?


----------



## Blueshound24 (Sep 28, 2019)

Due to Lypertek Tevi being OOS on USA Amazon, I PM'd them on facebook and got the following reply.



> "The goods are on the way. I think can be available early next week"



From what I've researched I may get both the Galaxy Buds and Tevi and either sell or return the one I don't want. Does anyone know which would have the most punchy, dynamic, exciting bass and treble response, but yet with good mids? And do either have volume control?


----------



## chinmie

Blueshound24 said:


> Due to Lypertek Tevi being OOS on USA Amazon, I PM'd them on facebook and got the following reply.
> 
> From what I've researched I may get both the Galaxy Buds and Tevi and either sell or return the one I don't want. Does anyone know which would have the most punchy, dynamic, exciting bass and treble response, but yet with good mids? And do either have volume control?



Can't comment on the Tevi's sound, but both of them do have volume control


----------



## JimmyR

Bartig said:


> Tranya B530, Creative Outlier, Edifier TWS5, Sabbat E12 Ultra, Whizzer B6 and the Shanling MTW100 BA is still coming my way.
> 
> MAN, the midrange is on fire these days!



Such a fancy color on the b6s 
Looking forward to your impressions!


----------



## rhsauer

hifi80sman said:


> Dammit.  Had to...
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07V9ZMDX7/



Really interested in what you think of these. I’ve had them for a few weeks and am enjoying them. The secret sauce here is obviously the outgoing call quality.


----------



## srinivasvignesh

@rhsauer how is the outgoing call quality? I am looking for a pair of TWS that does this really well, even in noisy environments. I spend 15 hours in meetings every week and could really use one that is outstanding in this regard.


----------



## rhsauer

srinivasvignesh said:


> @rhsauer how is the outgoing call quality? I am looking for a pair of TWS that does this really well, even in noisy environments. I spend 15 hours in meetings every week and could really use one that is outstanding in this regard.



To my experience the outgoing call quality is about as good as you find on a TWE, excluding perhaps the AirPods (which I’ve never had and don’t fit my ears). I called a friend from the subway platform and it was (reportedly) fine. That’s never happened before. Sound wise, they’re fine - but I like the mpow T5s better.


----------



## vstolpner

dwil said:


> I was going to buy the dynamic driver mifo o5... I have enough wired iems and headphones for critical listening, these just need to be laid back with good warm sound signature and impactful bass.
> 
> Is there anything with aptx that uses a shell a small as the mifo o5 shell?



I think there were a couple... Maybe try searching aptX in this thread.

Otherwise did critical listening I would recommend the Anbes 359/Kissral R18. No aptX but they have a slim shell. Same for the Shanling MTW100, and they also include audio passthrough / ambient mode. See my reviews for comparison photos, though both the mifo O5 and Shanling MTW100 I tested are BA versions

For aptX but larger shell I would recommend the Mpow T5, and seems like the Tevi's are a slight improvement.


----------



## vstolpner

CardigdanWalk said:


> hahaha
> 
> love it. (And I’m tempted)
> 
> ...



Definitely all 3, but the Shanling is definitely a great TWS! And the ambient mode is awesome! (See my review in signature)


----------



## vstolpner

rhsauer said:


> To my experience the outgoing call quality is about as good as you find on a TWE, excluding perhaps the AirPods (which I’ve never had and don’t fit my ears). I called a friend from the subway platform and it was (reportedly) fine. That’s never happened before. Sound wise, they’re fine - but I like the mpow T5s better.



I think the best for call quality so far are Shanling MTW100 and Mpow T5. I plan to do a comparison review for call quality sometime soon.


----------



## srinivasvignesh

vstolpner said:


> I think the best for call quality so far are Shanling MTW100 and Mpow T5. I plan to do a comparison review for call quality sometime soon.


That would be useful. I find sabbat x12 better most for calls, followed by mpow t5 but the gap is fairly large between the two


----------



## HiFlight

mattedialdoc said:


> Have any of you guys tried the TRN TWS T200 yet?
> Thanks!





mattedialdoc said:


> Have any of you guys tried the TRN TWS T200 yet?
> Thanks!


Mine are on the way.  Should be here sometime next week.  I will report first impressions.


----------



## BobJS

hifi80sman said:


> Dammit.  Had to...
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07V9ZMDX7/



Anything in particular make you pull the trigger on those (other than your obvious degeneracy)?  They don't seem to have to any claim to fame in their specs (well, other than battery life and promising call quality).  Hell, I shouldn't even have posted this ... I can never get a seal with those low profile tipped - shallow earphones without trying some ungodly large 3rd party tip which will stay in my ear, but not fit in the case.


----------



## jant71

Did we see this yet? Another "big name" doing a TWS...









Crowdfunding Noble Audio, falcon is the first fully wireless earphone.
"Wired equivalent sound quality" with new driver. General sales are scheduled for the end of October. 
but the expected selling price is 16,800 yen (excluding tax), and courses are available for free in the return of the project.

FALCON Noble Audio's first fully wireless earphone, the first U.S. earphone brand. The issues that products of this genre should solve are "easy to disconnect," "poor sound quality," and "difficult to use", and "after negotiations with a number of suppliers and sample evaluations,

We have succeeded in developing fully wireless earphones with excellent 
stability, and we have implemented sound quality tuning of fully wireless earphones with the goal of achieving the same sound quality as wired earphones. Qualcomm's QCC3020 is used as a Qualcomm SoC, and the Bluetooth codec supports SBC, AAC and aptX.

In addition, since it supports TrueWireless Stereo Plus-TWS+, which transmits data to each left and right earphones, it is possible to connect independently to the left and right in combination with compatible smartphones. In addition, the antenna design technology "High Precision 
Connect Technology" that is optimized for bluetooth band is adopted, and it is extremely difficult to cut even in the situation where there is a lot of radio interference such as a crowded station premises,

It has a high connection stability design. "Dual-layered Carbon Driver" describes the driver as "a driver with a new structure that overcomes the shortcomings of graphene drivers." Driver". It has a special two-layer structure with a carbon fiber layer on top of the driver's resin layer, reducing distortion to about 1/2 compared to conventional graphene based drivers.


----------



## CardigdanWalk

vstolpner said:


> Definitely all 3, but the Shanling is definitely a great TWS! And the ambient mode is awesome! (See my review in signature)



You people are evil! (And I love you for it)

just read there is now the TRN T200 and KZ E10 too.

Right, decided.

Going to get the MPOW T5/M5 while it’s on sale for £34 on amazon and preorder the KZ E10 as October’s treat.

then I’m going to keep the hell away from Head-fi, as it seems whenever I come here I spend money!


----------



## clerkpalmer

jant71 said:


> Did we see this yet? Another "big name" doing a TWS...
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Nice find.  Really like that they are targeting high end sq. I had a pair of their massdrop iems.  They were very nice. Crowdfunding sucks however. I'm so over that.


----------



## jant71

clerkpalmer said:


> Nice find.  Really like that they are targeting high end sq. I had a pair of their massdrop iems.  They were very nice. Crowdfunding sucks however. I'm so over that.



You can ignore that first part if you want. More important is general sales start late October. If no issues I guess.

More info is, 10 hours battery and 40 hours total with case. IPX7, TWS with master switch to evenly distribute battery(senses at turn on to choose Master), 1.5 hour to fully charge case and 1 hour to fully charge buds. Comes with ePro Horn tips. There will be an IOS/android app for EQ and if you want to change the functions of the buttons and other stuff.


----------



## ItsGallen

I want to get a pair of TWS with sound that resembles the KZ ZS3. (i have them for almost 2 years and i really like them but i hate KZ's QC)
Can anyone recommend something?


----------



## Bhelpoori

rhsauer said:


> My experience the outgoing call quality is about as good as you find on a TWE, excluding perhaps the AirPods (which I’ve never had and don’t fit my ears). I called a friend from the subway platform and it was (reportedly) fine. That’s never happened before. Sound wise, they’re fine - but I like the mpow T5s better.



I'm on various conference calls on various systems and other direct calls most of my working day/evening. I use the TWS to carry on these calls when I'm walking the dog or indoors activity that needs me to move, as I have a very good wired system for most of the day. The outgoing call quality is pretty critical to me, as well as being able to hear decent voice audio in both ears, and great bluetooth connectivity. Obviously between calls I listen to music...

Having got an Airpod v1 and tried the Powerbeats Pro for phone calls several times, I can say that the Airpods are not good enough when there's wind around, and are just about OK if there's background noise. The current leader for me, by a huge margin, for outgoing call quality is the Bose 700 over ears, but for incoming voice quality it remains the PXC550 which has an EQ for incoming voice plus noise cancelling which is really nice. 

The Anbes 359 are great when there is no background noise  but are useless when there is any background noise, which means they are indoor only. I've tried quite a few other TWS... and noticed that the promised CVC for correcting background noise is next to useless unless there are multiple microphones, which most of them don't have but the Plantronics do. The Jabra Elite 65s pick up too much background noise when you speak in a noise or windy environment but they are OK...

Hence why the Plantronics 5100 are interesting to me. Plantronics have a great reputation for making decent call quality and suppressing background noise...

Is there any chance someone can test them with wind blowing into the side with the master and near a road with some traffic, please? Also, any clue what its signature playing music (I'm an ER4P/ER4XR fan)?

Thanks


----------



## hifi80sman

rhsauer said:


> To my experience the outgoing call quality is about as good as you find on a TWE, excluding perhaps the AirPods (which I’ve never had and don’t fit my ears). I called a friend from the subway platform and it was (reportedly) fine. That’s never happened before. Sound wise, they’re fine - but I like the mpow T5s better.


I agree.  I made a few calls and was told I sounded loud and clear.  I told them I was planning on using this for business calls and they indicated it sounded perfect for that use.  There also seems to a side tone, so you're not yelling with the buds in your ears.  The sound is good and the typical Plantronics signature (big bass, slightly less pulled back/"cleaned up" mid range, and a splash of treble).  If you've heard the BackBeat Pro 2 Over Ear, it's fairly similar.  They have touch and physical controls as well that can be customized to a certain extent.  Quite a few features that cater to the professional user, so I can see these as a daily driver for the office.  Fit is great and very comfortable.  The physical buttons are easy to press and are positioned in a way that the buds don't jam into your ear canal.  Firmware updates available via App.  Only downside is the case is just OK; all plastic with Micro USB.

By contrast, the RHA TrueConnect (same price) has a much nicer case (metal, USB-C) with perhaps a little better sound, but calls are not close to being comparable, doesn't fit nearly as well, and far fewer bells & whistles.  I will say that I enjoy the bass of the BackBeat Pro 5100 more than the RHA TrueConnect.


----------



## hifi80sman

Bhelpoori said:


> I'm on various conference calls on various systems and other direct calls most of my working day/evening. I use the TWS to carry on these calls when I'm walking the dog or indoors activity that needs me to move, as I have a very good wired system for most of the day. The outgoing call quality is pretty critical to me, as well as being able to hear decent voice audio in both ears, and great bluetooth connectivity. Obviously between calls I listen to music...
> 
> Having got an Airpod v1 and tried the Powerbeats Pro for phone calls several times, I can say that the Airpods are not good enough when there's wind around, and are just about OK if there's background noise. The current leader for me, by a huge margin, for outgoing call quality is the Bose 700 over ears, but for incoming voice quality it remains the PXC550 which has an EQ for incoming voice plus noise cancelling which is really nice.
> 
> ...


Here's a pretty comprehensive review in Thai, but the nuts and bolts of the review are the same.  Does the fan test and rides on a scooter with a helmet.


----------



## hifi80sman (Sep 28, 2019)

Also picked up the Anker Soundcore Liberty Air 2 (I believe these are 1 step down from the hybrid driver flagship) at Best Buy yesterday.  So far, impressed.  "Diamond" coated drivers, App with EQ presets (there a 22, so most will find something suitable), responsive touch controls that can be customized, call quality was also really good.  USB-C.  Wireless Charging.

The call quality test in this case was I had my teenage son wear them so he can call me so I could personally hear what the mic sounds like.  The call quality was actually really good and honestly, if I didn't know better, I'd think he was just talking on the phone.  Quiet home environment, so take it for what it's worth.

Sound-wise, they are fantastic.  I enjoy the their "Signature" preset and when feeling a little "Beast Mode", the Bass Boost preset.  Notes/instruments sound precise.  There is no haze here.  Very impressed.


----------



## C_Lindbergh

https://nobleaudio.jp/falcon/   (just use Google Translate)

More info about their new TWS, they're developing an app as well with settings like EQ, gesture/control customization (which more TWS did this!!).


----------



## mattedialdoc

mattedialdoc said:


> I just sent back the MPOW T5, the WaveFun, Bomaker SiFi, and the Ofusho F16.
> The MPOW sounded fine, but the push buttons were annoying.
> The best so far for me have been the Tranya B530. Better for me than the other Tranya models. The touch controls on the 530 work very well, and to my ear the sound signature and stage are impressive.



So I lied. I just found I forgot to send the Bomaker back . After talking to a buddy that has been loving these, I tried with a pair of Comply tips. Man they sound damn good. More bass now. And with this tiny form factor, IPX7, etc etc, for $29 bucks. How can I send them back. I’m down to these and the B530. Waiting for the Tevi this week, which may best both but we shall see.


----------



## clerkpalmer

C_Lindbergh said:


> https://nobleaudio.jp/falcon/   (just use Google Translate)
> 
> More info about their new TWS, they're developing an app as well with settings like EQ, gesture/control customization (which more TWS did this!!).


They will be mine.


----------



## d3myz (Sep 28, 2019)

Just got the Tevi. Color me disappointed. it's a T5 with a lot less bass and cleaner crisper highs. It makes the T5 sound super bassy and even a bit muddy. Very weird. It's def. a quality TWS' but the buttons are harder to press and it has a more narrow soundstage which acutally sounds really good.  I can't see my self using this for anything other than classical music, acoustic and audiobooks. UGH!! I'm going to run a burn in on it and see if the bass opens up. Literally, almost NO Bass. I'm so damn sad right now.

Edit: The Volume of the Tevi is much lower than the T5, but I have to admit the mids and highs sound nice, but the are a little bright. Reminds me of the Yineme S3 Alien Ambes Clone, but w/o the high mid boost.


----------



## chinmie

d3myz said:


> Just got the Tevi. Color me disappointed. it's a T5 with a lot less bass and cleaner crisper highs. It makes the T5 sound super bassy and even a bit muddy. Very weird. It's def. a quality TWS' but the buttons are harder to press and it has a more narrow soundstage which acutally sounds really good.  I can't see my self using this for anything other than classical music, acoustic and audiobooks. UGH!! I'm going to run a burn in on it and see if the bass opens up. Literally, almost NO Bass. I'm so damn sad right now.
> 
> Edit: The Volume of the Tevi is much lower than the T5, but I have to admit the mids and highs sound nice, but the are a little bright. Reminds me of the Yineme S3 Alien Ambes Clone, but w/o the high mid boost.



how's the Tevi compared to the Tin T2? does it even has less bass than the T2?


----------



## chinmie

this is interesting, haven't seen a chifi TWS that does sliding gesture control in a while
https://m.aliexpress.com/item/4000196435381.html


----------



## hifi80sman

d3myz said:


> Just got the Tevi. Color me disappointed. it's a T5 with a lot less bass and cleaner crisper highs. It makes the T5 sound super bassy and even a bit muddy. Very weird. It's def. a quality TWS' but the buttons are harder to press and it has a more narrow soundstage which acutally sounds really good.  I can't see my self using this for anything other than classical music, acoustic and audiobooks. UGH!! I'm going to run a burn in on it and see if the bass opens up. Literally, almost NO Bass. I'm so damn sad right now.
> 
> Edit: The Volume of the Tevi is much lower than the T5, but I have to admit the mids and highs sound nice, but the are a little bright. Reminds me of the Yineme S3 Alien Ambes Clone, but w/o the high mid boost.


Great feedback!


----------



## Stephan

mattedialdoc said:


> So I lied. I just found I forgot to send the Bomaker back . After talking to a buddy that has been loving these, I tried with a pair of Comply tips. Man they sound damn good. More bass now. And with this tiny form factor, IPX7, etc etc, for $29 bucks. How can I send them back. I’m down to these and the B530. Waiting for the Tevi this week, which may best both but we shall see.



Which size Comply's work with the Bomakers?


----------



## mattedialdoc

Stephan said:


> Which size Comply's work with the Bomakers?


I got the ones that are made shorter for TWS and galaxy buds


----------



## Rob E.

Stephan said:


> Which size Comply's work with the Bomakers?



400


----------



## Slater

Bhelpoori said:


> I'm on various conference calls on various systems and other direct calls most of my working day/evening. I use the TWS to carry on these calls when I'm walking the dog or indoors activity that needs me to move, as I have a very good wired system for most of the day. The outgoing call quality is pretty critical to me, as well as being able to hear decent voice audio in both ears, and great bluetooth connectivity. Obviously between calls I listen to music...
> 
> Having got an Airpod v1 and tried the Powerbeats Pro for phone calls several times, I can say that the Airpods are not good enough when there's wind around, and are just about OK if there's background noise. The current leader for me, by a huge margin, for outgoing call quality is the Bose 700 over ears, but for incoming voice quality it remains the PXC550 which has an EQ for incoming voice plus noise cancelling which is really nice.
> 
> ...



I don’t know many microphones, in general, that deal well with wind noise. Pro level mics with dead cats (windmuff) aside, the only headset I owned that did well in windy conditions was the Jawbone. And that used bone conduction technology to overcome wind noise.

I hope you find what you’re looking for, but personally I wouldn’t really get your hopes up.


----------



## d3myz (Sep 29, 2019)

chinmie said:


> how's the Tevi compared to the Tin T2? does it even has less bass than the T2?


That’s a great question, I’ll have to test it tomorrow but I’ve been watching TV with the Tevi all night and it’s been a struggle. I finally switched back to the T5. Less sparkle but so much better for watching TV. If I had to guess I would say The T2 Has more bass, Especially if you cover the port holes, but I’ll get back to you on it.

Edit: Tevi has more bass than the Tin T2, but Good hell the Tin sounds better!! With the ports plugged it has more bass than the Tevi.


----------



## Blueshound24 (Sep 29, 2019)

d3myz said:


> Just got the Tevi. Color me disappointed. it's a T5 with a lot less bass and cleaner crisper highs. It makes the T5 sound super bassy and even a bit muddy. Very weird. It's def. a quality TWS' but the buttons are harder to press and it has a more narrow soundstage which acutally sounds really good.  I can't see my self using this for anything other than classical music, acoustic and audiobooks. UGH!! I'm going to run a burn in on it and see if the bass opens up. Literally, almost NO Bass. I'm so damn sad right now.
> 
> Edit: The Volume of the Tevi is much lower than the T5, but I have to admit the mids and highs sound nice, but the are a little bright. Reminds me of the Yineme S3 Alien Ambes Clone, but w/o the high mid boost.




Could it be that you are used to bassy earphones/headphones and you might need some time with the TEVI to get accustomed to a more neutral signature? 

The tws600 has been perceived to have very little bass, and I had trouble getting used to it and I'm not a bass head. 

And I wonder how the TEVI would compare to Galaxy Buds?


----------



## Blueshound24

d3myz said:


> That’s a great question, I’ll have to test it tomorrow but I’ve been watching TV with the Tevi all night and it’s been a struggle. I finally switched back to the T5. Less sparkle but so much better for watching TV. If I had to guess I would say The T2 Has more bass, Especially if you cover the port holes, but I’ll get back to you on it.



Could you could try the TEVI on a decent source like at least some CD quality music? It would be interesting to see if that would improve its response.


----------



## d3myz (Sep 29, 2019)

Blueshound24 said:


> Could it be that you are used to bassy earphones/headphones and you might need some time with the TEVI to get accustomed to a more neutral signature?
> 
> And I wonder how the TEVI would compare to Galaxy Buds?


Anything is possible. But I have listened to Roughly 10 different TWS’ this week at least 3 or 4 of which had very little bass. I may have just gotten a bad pair, but I’m telling you man. I’ve tried for five different tips on them. And as I said I just spent four hours listening to them and they make the MPower T5 sound like the tranya T3 in an A/B comparison. I own the QCY T1- pro  and that headphone has the least amount of bass of any TWS that I own and it's got very sparkly highs and even it has better bass., I'm kind of shocked because Ii stopped using these, but damn they sound good. a little too v shaped though. I wouldn't call the Tevi neutral, it's boosted in the mids like the T5, but it def. has more clarity. In order for it to be neutral or flat, it would need more bass and less mid IMO. I'll bed the galaxy buds sound better.

Edit:

Tevi's' have less bass than the Bomaker Sifi. they aren't quite as bright as the Bo's but the Bo's sound very full and much louder in comparison. The Tevi still sounds better as far as the quality is concerned but there is hardly any low end.


----------



## tlau1125

tlau1125 said:


> Update: I have further discussions with the Edifier Store rep and the store suggested I either return the whole package in exchange for a new set (I need to pay for shipment I guess), or the store can send me a new left earpiece.  I opt for the latter.  Hopefully the new one will perform better.
> 
> BTW, the process is a bit convoluted ... the rep asked me to put in another order but do not pay immediately.  I could not figure out how to do it on the AliExpress website.  I then decided to try it in the AliExpress app and was finally able to do so.  The rep updated the cost to $0.01 before I paid for the order.  I guess they just need an order to track this special shipment.
> 
> Fingers crossed


I received the replacement left earpiece 2 days ago.  I confirmed that its Bluetooth reception is much better than the defective one when connected to my laptop.  I’ll try it downtown tomorrow.

I applaud Edifier for its excellent customer support.


----------



## d3myz (Sep 29, 2019)

Blueshound24 said:


> Could you could try the TEVI on a decent source like at least some CD quality music? It would be interesting to see if that would improve its response.


Well, I ran a whole bunch of audio Frequency tests on them from a Spotify playlist I think @actorlife life or @hifi80sman man sent me and  One of the sources I used was the new Tool album in .wav format ripped at 2x and played from my IPhone XS Max. Still lacking bass, my man. Ironically, compared to the Tevi the T5 does sound a little muddy.   I do hear what your saying about a more neutral signature I have some Ultimate Ears super fi and Ultimate Ears triple fi and those both sound very neutral to me. I’m open to audio source suggestions.


----------



## chinmie

d3myz said:


> That’s a great question, I’ll have to test it tomorrow but I’ve been watching TV with the Tevi all night and it’s been a struggle. I finally switched back to the T5. Less sparkle but so much better for watching TV. If I had to guess I would say The T2 Has more bass, Especially if you cover the port holes, but I’ll get back to you on it.
> 
> Edit: Tevi has more bass than the Tin T2, but Good hell the Tin sounds better!! With the ports plugged it has more bass than the Tevi.



i use a T2 Pro with tip mod as one of my daily TWS (one of my most used, together with the Galaxy Buds and Nillkin Go). even without the bass vent plugged, i still think it has enough subbbass as long as the fit is snug. 
based on your input, i guess I'll skip the Tevi for now, thanks!


----------



## TonySunshine

The Tevi lack mid-bass but have a healthy sub bass response compared to the mpow t5. Personally I think the Tevi sounds really good. It a has a diffuse field neutral tuning with a subbass boost

Tevi



 

T5


----------



## Caipirina

CardigdanWalk said:


> hahaha
> 
> love it. (And I’m tempted)
> 
> ...



Actually, I can't say anything about the Shanling, as I don't have it ... and actually cancelled my order as i feel my BA needs are met with Mifo o5

I still think the BT20 is just really a nice thing / extension to existing IEMs ... I constantly switch IEMs around, like the ZS3 on the low end and the ZS10 pro / AS16 on the top end ... but I would not use that combo for running / sweating ... for that the MPOW are better IMHO .. really comes down what your need is


----------



## Caipirina

two more generic questions today: 

Spinfits: is there any 'cheaper' way of getting them 'in bulk'? I'd love to buy a bunch of them, but at ~6$ a pair they are quite steep ... is there any direct sale or something I am missing on aliexpress? To add to injury, I found that the few places that do free shipping suddenly add shipping when I order more than 1 pair ... so, yes, technically i could order 5 x 1 pairs, but that kinda defeats the whole idea ... 

Second: anyone in Singapore or know about good TWS shopping there? I know the place a bit and I usually check stereo.sg before I go (even signed up as member), but it looks like that i.e. they do not sell any shanling. The brand names like Sony / Bose I know I could find at Challenger ... and well, for cheapo chi-fi at double price and from 3 months ago I will have some fun at Sim Lim Square. Any other spots to look out for? Or is everyone there simply using Lazada / AliExpress ... 

Oh, I just remembered Jaben .. and they have the Shanling 'for preorder' .. so, probably not there when I am there ..


----------



## d3myz

TonySunshine said:


> The Tevi lack mid-bass but have a healthy sub bass response compared to the mpow t5. Personally I think the Tevi sounds really good. It a has a diffuse field neutral tuning with a subbass boost
> 
> Tevi
> 
> ...


Based on this freq. response graph I must have gotten a bad pair. Mine aren’t even in the same ball park as the T5’s sub bass. I ran a 20hz test on both at the same volume, same tips and the T5 is much more prominent. Did you analyze the frequencies yourself? Or is this data online?


----------



## d3myz

chinmie said:


> i use a T2 Pro with tip mod as one of my daily TWS (one of my most used, together with the Galaxy Buds and Nillkin Go). even without the bass vent plugged, i still think it has enough subbbass as long as the fit is snug.
> based on your input, i guess I'll skip the Tevi for now, thanks!


I def. have a hard time getting my T2s to seal. Can you tell me more about the tips you use?


----------



## Bhelpoori

Slater said:


> I don’t know many microphones, in general, that deal well with wind noise. Pro level mics with dead cats (windmuff) aside, the only headset I owned that did well in windy conditions was the Jawbone. And that used bone conduction technology to overcome wind noise.
> 
> I hope you find what you’re looking for, but personally I wouldn’t really get your hopes up.


Agree that professional microphones need a dead cat... I have one on my wired setup. I used to love the Jawbones too, always got them as soon as they came out. Also, sometimes in professional applications you can use post processing to clear it up.

However, since the era of Alexa, Siri and Telepresence, microphones in consumer devices may not be used in the same way since almost all use many microphones with DSP to do various sophisticated things to focus and clear the audio from the microphones up. If I look at my Macbook Pro, it has 3 microphones... You can't have Alexa, Siri, Cortana, Google voice assistants work without this...

We're seeing the same thing in TWS, where at least Anker, Plantronics, Sony and Amazon are using multiple microphones to focus (sometimes called "beamforming") and a DSP (CvC) to clear the audio up. The same thing was happening in neck BT headphones too: take a look at this Plantronics audio advert on wind noise: https://www.plantronics.com/us/en/product/voyager-6200-uc

On the wind noise front, I'm also not looking at anything more than 10mph wind, and not even in my face... to cause the effects I said in my previous message.


----------



## BigZ12

d3myz said:


> Just got the Tevi. Color me disappointed. it's a T5 with a lot less bass and cleaner crisper highs. It makes the T5 sound super bassy and even a bit muddy. Very weird. It's def. a quality TWS' but the buttons are harder to press and it has a more narrow soundstage which acutally sounds really good.  I can't see my self using this for anything other than classical music, acoustic and audiobooks. UGH!! I'm going to run a burn in on it and see if the bass opens up. Literally, almost NO Bass. I'm so damn sad right now.
> 
> Edit: The Volume of the Tevi is much lower than the T5, but I have to admit the mids and highs sound nice, but the are a little bright. Reminds me of the Yineme S3 Alien Ambes Clone, but w/o the high mid boost.


I have more bass than QCY T2C and almost as much as Anbes 359. They are on par with my Soundpeats  Q12 and Soundmagic E11C. (the only in-ears I have left) 
FYI, I use the medium Flexfit foam tips that were included. As a gift, I also got a little plastic box with 3 more Flexfit tips, S/M/L.
When using the standard silicone I got little bass, and they were a bit too aggressive in the highs, but never "shrill". I actually wrote that in my (limited) review when I got the Tevis. "It's not for bassheads". But after changing the tips i edit that.

The volume is higher than both QCY and Anbes. So I guess, did you get "a dud"?


----------



## DigDub

Caipirina said:


> two more generic questions today:
> 
> Spinfits: is there any 'cheaper' way of getting them 'in bulk'? I'd love to buy a bunch of them, but at ~6$ a pair they are quite steep ... is there any direct sale or something I am missing on aliexpress? To add to injury, I found that the few places that do free shipping suddenly add shipping when I order more than 1 pair ... so, yes, technically i could order 5 x 1 pairs, but that kinda defeats the whole idea ...
> 
> ...



The popular shops in Singapore are Stereo, Jaben and Connect-IT. They allow auditioning.


----------



## Soreniglio

hifi80sman said:


> Also picked up the Anker Soundcore Liberty Air 2 (I believe these are 1 step down from the hybrid driver flagship) at Best Buy yesterday.  So far, impressed.  "Diamond" coated drivers, App with EQ presets (there a 22, so most will find something suitable), responsive touch controls that can be customized, call quality was also really good.  USB-C.  Wireless Charging.
> 
> The call quality test in this case was I had my teenage son wear them so he can call me so I could personally hear what the mic sounds like.  The call quality was actually really good and honestly, if I didn't know better, I'd think he was just talking on the phone.  Quiet home environment, so take it for what it's worth.
> 
> Sound-wise, they are fantastic.  I enjoy the their "Signature" preset and when feeling a little "Beast Mode", the Bass Boost preset.  Notes/instruments sound precise.  There is no haze here.  Very impressed.



I think i'll save money for these, Anker is a good brand


----------



## d3myz

BigZ12 said:


> I have more bass than QCY T2C and almost as much as Anbes 359. They are on par with my Soundpeats  Q12 and Soundmagic E11C. (the only in-ears I have left)
> FYI, I use the medium Flexfit foam tips that were included. As a gift, I also got a little plastic box with 3 more Flexfit tips, S/M/L.
> When using the standard silicone I got little bass, and they were a bit too aggressive in the highs, but never "shrill". I actually wrote that in my (limited) review when I got the Tevis. "It's not for bassheads". But after changing the tips i edit that.
> 
> The volume is higher than both QCY and Anbes. So I guess, did you get "a dud"?


I appreciate your feedback. Yea, even with the comply tips, I get nowhere near the bass of the 359's but the clarity is better, that's certain. I can't even listen to my t5's anymore, they sound muddy.


----------



## chinmie

d3myz said:


> I def. have a hard time getting my T2s to seal. Can you tell me more about the tips you use?




 

they call it "philips ear tips" in my local online stores, they're really cheap, but i don't know the exact type for you to search it. it has similar feel and material like the Sony hybrids, but has a wider dome and a more matte texture. also doesn't warm up the midbass sound like the Sony hybrids.


----------



## BigZ12

d3myz said:


> I appreciate your feedback. Yea, even with the comply tips, I get nowhere near the bass of the 359's but the clarity is better, that's certain. I can't even listen to my t5's anymore, they sound muddy.


I tested now, once again, with a couple of songs. The Anbes is muddier, but a bit "thicker" in the mid bass. Deep bass is pretty equal to the Tevis. Volume wise they're about the same too. 
The QCY T2C has way less volume, about identical in bass but again sound muddier than the Tevi.


----------



## Bhelpoori

hifi80sman said:


> I agree.  I made a few calls and was told I sounded loud and clear.  I told them I was planning on using this for business calls and they indicated it sounded perfect for that use.  There also seems to a side tone, so you're not yelling with the buds in your ears.  The sound is good and the typical Plantronics signature (big bass, slightly less pulled back/"cleaned up" mid range, and a splash of treble).  If you've heard the BackBeat Pro 2 Over Ear, it's fairly similar.  They have touch and physical controls as well that can be customized to a certain extent.  Quite a few features that cater to the professional user, so I can see these as a daily driver for the office.  Fit is great and very comfortable.  The physical buttons are easy to press and are positioned in a way that the buds don't jam into your ear canal.  Firmware updates available via App.  Only downside is the case is just OK; all plastic with Micro USB.
> 
> By contrast, the RHA TrueConnect (same price) has a much nicer case (metal, USB-C) with perhaps a little better sound, but calls are not close to being comparable, doesn't fit nearly as well, and far fewer bells & whistles.  I will say that I enjoy the bass of the BackBeat Pro 5100 more than the RHA TrueConnect.


Thank you for the comparison with the RHAs. I had them but they had unacceptable connectivity problems, even though the sound when it worked was good not great, though I note there's a new version out which may have fixed them. They got returned... The 5100s sound very promising as I had the Backbeat Pro v1 and enjoyed them.


----------



## Bartig

Here's my Sabbat E12 Ultra review. This time, they're winners. Enjoy!


----------



## Caipirina (Sep 29, 2019)

According to status on AliExpress, my KZ e10
Show as ‘shipped’ !!!!

maybe just an early assigned tracking # ... let’s see... could be here as early as 10/13 ... so they say


----------



## sm0rf

Mpow T5 are on sale (voucher) on Amazon UK, so I'll give them a try after all that positive feedback here


----------



## Blueshound24 (Sep 29, 2019)

d3myz said:


> Well, I ran a whole bunch of audio Frequency tests on them from a Spotify playlist I think @actorlife life or @hifi80sman man sent me and  One of the sources I used was the new Tool album in .wav format ripped at 2x and played from my IPhone XS Max. Still lacking bass, my man. Ironically, compared to the Tevi the T5 does sound a little muddy.   I do hear what your saying about a more neutral signature I have some Ultimate Ears super fi and *Ultimate Ears triple fi* and those both sound very neutral to me. I’m open to audio source suggestions.



I believe the UE triple fi is considered a V shaped signature, not neutral, and I have one as well and agree with it being V shaped. However it is still one of my favs.

I was on the tour with the tws600 and it was mid-centric with fantastic mids and good treble, however the bass was almost absent maybe like you are saying the TEVI is.


----------



## TonySunshine

The measurements were done by a korean review site

https://www.0db.co.kr/index.php?mid=REVIEW_0DB&page=3&document_srl=719395

Note that for both the mpow t5 and lypertek tevi you get more sub bass response using the silicone tips according to the review



d3myz said:


> Based on this freq. response graph I must have gotten a bad pair. Mine aren’t even in the same ball park as the T5’s sub bass. I ran a 20hz test on both at the same volume, same tips and the T5 is much more prominent. Did you analyze the frequencies yourself? Or is this data online?


----------



## d3myz

TonySunshine said:


> The measurements were done by a korean review site
> 
> https://www.0db.co.kr/index.php?mid=REVIEW_0DB&page=3&document_srl=719395
> 
> Note that for both the mpow t5 and lypertek tevi you get more sub bass response using the silicone tips according to the review


Yea, that has always been my experience. Comply tips steal bass and a little of the highs. I used Spiral dots, Spin Fit 360's and a couple other stock eartips, but I did however get a slightly boosted amount of bass with the comply tips that came with the Tevi's very strange.


----------



## clerkpalmer

hifi80sman said:


> Dammit.  Had to...
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07V9ZMDX7/



Waiting with baited breath here on your impressions.


----------



## rhsauer

hifi80sman said:


> I agree.  I made a few calls and was told I sounded loud and clear.  I told them I was planning on using this for business calls and they indicated it sounded perfect for that use.  There also seems to a side tone, so you're not yelling with the buds in your ears.  The sound is good and the typical Plantronics signature (big bass, slightly less pulled back/"cleaned up" mid range, and a splash of treble).  If you've heard the BackBeat Pro 2 Over Ear, it's fairly similar.  They have touch and physical controls as well that can be customized to a certain extent.  Quite a few features that cater to the professional user, so I can see these as a daily driver for the office.  Fit is great and very comfortable.  The physical buttons are easy to press and are positioned in a way that the buds don't jam into your ear canal.  Firmware updates available via App.  Only downside is the case is just OK; all plastic with Micro USB.
> 
> By contrast, the RHA TrueConnect (same price) has a much nicer case (metal, USB-C) with perhaps a little better sound, but calls are not close to being comparable, doesn't fit nearly as well, and far fewer bells & whistles.  I will say that I enjoy the bass of the BackBeat Pro 5100 more than the RHA TrueConnect.



The case is plastic, but very small and pocketable.  The RHA case, in comparison, is huge.  I'll take small and plastic.


----------



## clerkpalmer

Mw07 plus now on best buys website. Release should be imminent. Says ANC.


----------



## jant71

Anybody mention this one... https://www.amazon.com/EWA-T200-Tip...jbGlja1JlZGlyZWN0JmRvTm90TG9nQ2xpY2s9dHJ1ZQ==


----------



## LordToneeus

clerkpalmer said:


> Mw07 plus now on best buys website. Release should be imminent. Says ANC.



Steel Blue or Quartz Black. 10 hour battery.


----------



## LordToneeus

jant71 said:


> Anybody mention this one... https://www.amazon.com/EWA-T200-Tips】2000mAh-Waterproof-Headphones/dp/B07T5DDSK4/ref=sr_1_1_sspa?keywords=creative+outlier+air&link_code=qs&qid=1569783443&sourceid=Mozilla-search&sr=8-1-spons&psc=1&spLa=ZW5jcnlwdGVkUXVhbGlmaWVyPUFESUdXVTEyMVFEMzgmZW5jcnlwdGVkSWQ9QTAyNzY0OTQyQlpOREJHWEQ3RlRTJmVuY3J5cHRlZEFkSWQ9QTAyODI2ODMyOUZLTFE5RzdZQk4yJndpZGdldE5hbWU9c3BfYXRmJmFjdGlvbj1jbGlja1JlZGlyZWN0JmRvTm90TG9nQ2xpY2s9dHJ1ZQ==


Say....those are pretty. Could they sound as good as they look? 13mm drivers


----------



## d3myz

jant71 said:


> Did we see this yet? Another "big name" doing a TWS...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


These look nice. Looks like the price is $168.42 or so in USD.


----------



## Slater

LordToneeus said:


> Say....those are pretty. Could they sound as good as they look? 13mm drivers



Those Amazon reviews look sketchy as heck, but I agree that 13mm drivers could be promising.


----------



## Blueshound24 (Sep 29, 2019)

Just have to vent here. Why is it that on Amazon *MANY* of these brands fail to list their name? This one is supposedly the Sabbat E12 Ultra, https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07P758PZ5/, however I don't see Sabbat anywhere in the ad? I see this so much when I scour the ad looking for a brand name. You would think they would want their name right out front to get name recognition. Is it a Chi-Fi thing or what?


And what is the difference between the former and this one? I know the "Ultra" is the improved newer model, but not sure if either one of these are the newer model. At least this one has their name in the title, but that is not common.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07KQGQ63L/




> "FIVE STARS - The Sabbat E12 got a lot of praise earlier this year for its detailed, big bass - but the sound wasn't perfect all around. Now, Sabbat has changed the chipset and tweaked the sound. Enter the Sabbat E12 Ultra. This time, it's a winner."


----------



## Tavleen Suri

d3myz said:


> Just got the Tevi. Color me disappointed. it's a T5 with a lot less bass and cleaner crisper highs. It makes the T5 sound super bassy and even a bit muddy. Very weird. It's def. a quality TWS' but the buttons are harder to press and it has a more narrow soundstage which acutally sounds really good.  I can't see my self using this for anything other than classical music, acoustic and audiobooks. UGH!! I'm going to run a burn in on it and see if the bass opens up. Literally, almost NO Bass. I'm so damn sad right now.
> 
> Edit: The Volume of the Tevi is much lower than the T5, but I have to admit the mids and highs sound nice, but the are a little bright. Reminds me of the Yineme S3 Alien Ambes Clone, but w/o the high mid boost.


Thanx for the feedback....less to no bass equals no buy for me....am so glad I chose the e12 ultras over this.... Now just need to wait for the new mw07 to arrive... Basically all they need to do is fix the battery


Bartig said:


> Here's my Sabbat E12 Ultra review. This time, they're winners. Enjoy!


Thanks for the review....so will these end up on your "tws favourites " list ??


----------



## hifi80sman

Slater said:


> Those Amazon reviews look sketchy as heck, but I agree that 13mm drivers could be promising.


I was thinking the exact same thing.  They are coming up as $59.90 for me and One-Day Shipping.  Thinking about it...

I tried these TWS' with a 14mm driver and supposedly "superior audio", but they sounded like trash.  Muffled.  

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07CGHLJRM/


----------



## clerkpalmer

LordToneeus said:


> Steel Blue or Quartz Black. 10 hour battery.


Both colors look amazing.  I hate the pricetag though.


----------



## hongky (Sep 29, 2019)

Anyone can tell me what is the best chifi TWS earbuds (airpods style) right now ?

Thanks


----------



## FYLegend

Kinda torn between Lypertek TEVI, Whizzer B6 and Sabbat E12 Ultra. The bad Bluetooth connectivity and lack of bass holds me back from the TEVI, but my soured impression of the original E12 being defective leaves me hanging as well, especially if I need to wait 2 weeks for it. What I'm wondering is if bass is "lost" with lots of background noise as in the case of Jabra 65t. Gamesky described the Mezone (basically B6 without AptX) as being like all the frequencies were cranked up without going overboard, suggesting it's a lively, punchy sound but he also said they aren't as good overall as something like the Sabbat E12 Ultra.

A bit appalled to see that two days ago I charged my Jabees Firefly Pro to the green light (>75%) but after less than 3 days it has drained and didn't change the buds, despite the light still being yellow. Charging them fixed it but I wonder if using quick charge power bricks is miscalibrating/depleting the case battery, or if the buds themselves are messing up due to quick charge.


----------



## vstolpner

hongky said:


> Anyone can tell me what is the best chifi TWS earbuds (airpods style) right now ?
> 
> Thanks



You're going to have the be a bit more specific... What are your requirements? Sound profile preferences? Etc


----------



## jlcsoft

karloil said:


> Tried today and immediately purchased one. I arrived quite late at the audio shop, the attendant told me I was the 12th person to purchase today!
> 
> Some of the TWs that I've auditioned before, ranking them from highest to lowest in terms of my prefered SQ
> 
> ...





In which position would you place the tranya T3. I am really happy with them. They costed me 39€.

Regads.


----------



## Caipirina (Sep 30, 2019)

hongky said:


> Anyone can tell me what is the best chifi TWS earbuds (airpods style) right now ?
> 
> Thanks



You mean simply stem based? Then maybe the QCY T3 with different tips (unless you have small ears, then you might get a good fit straight out of box)

If you are looking for the best airpod clone ... that's a tricky minefield, as the offers keep changing daily and there is no guaranty you get what you ordered ... i.e. an i60 yesterday might be different next week. An i88 can turn out to be just an i12 in a new, wireless charging box ... they just keep upping the numbers ... there are i9999 and above now


----------



## Caipirina (Sep 30, 2019)

Slater said:


> Those Amazon reviews look sketchy as heck, but I agree that 13mm drivers could be promising.



You know what else has 13mm drivers? Those Bononla ANC 
I know I still wanted to put together a write up comparing all the buds I got from that last sales week, but I am still waiting for one replacements (Alwup i9, one side did not work, they agreed to send a new set, but selected slowest / cheapest possible shipping ... )



Anyhoo, out of 7 new sets, those Bonola have impressed me the most. Not only the actually quite decent ANC, but also the sound quality (maybe because of the 13mm driver). And how easy they fit without having to jam them in ...  I'd be very curious to hear what someone with possibly better ears would say about the SQ of those ... to me they are crisp & clear, overall a slight V shape, enough bass to enjoy everything thoroughly and without being overbearing.

Yes, they are sticky-outy ... but so are many others (Sony? 1More?)

Very much recommended

(P.S., I now also ordered their earbud style 13mm driver TWS ... let's see how that one sounds, and if the sticking out part drags it out of my ears    )


----------



## hongky

Caipirina said:


> You mean simply stem based? Then maybe the QCY T3 with different tips (unless you have small ears, then you might get a good fit straight out of box)
> 
> If you are looking for the best airpod clone ... that's a tricky minefield, as the offers keep changing daily and there is no guaranty you get what you ordered ... i.e. and i60 yesterday might be different next week. An i88 can turn out to be just an i12 in a new, wireless charging box ... they just keep upping the numbers ... there are i9999 and above now



Thanks
QCY T3 just ordered


----------



## mattedialdoc

FYLegend said:


> Kinda torn between Lypertek TEVI, Whizzer B6 and Sabbat E12 Ultra. The bad Bluetooth connectivity and lack of bass holds me back from the TEVI, but my soured impression of the original E12 being defective leaves me hanging as well, especially if I need to wait 2 weeks for it. What I'm wondering is if bass is "lost" with lots of background noise as in the case of Jabra 65t. Gamesky described the Mezone (basically B6 without AptX) as being like all the frequencies were cranked up without going overboard, suggesting it's a lively, punchy sound but he also said they aren't as good overall as something like the Sabbat E12 Ultra.
> 
> A bit appalled to see that two days ago I charged my Jabees Firefly Pro to the green light (>75%) but after less than 3 days it has drained and didn't change the buds, despite the light still being yellow. Charging them fixed it but I wonder if using quick charge power bricks is miscalibrating/depleting the case battery, or if the buds themselves are messing up due to quick charge.



My Lypertek Tevi will arrive Thursday. I haven’t heard of BT issues. Actually the only guy I know that has these claims they have some of the strongest BT connection...no loss during exercise and strong at a far distance from his Iphone. He also has used them for swimming....we shall see.


----------



## BigZ12

mattedialdoc said:


> My Lypertek Tevi will arrive Thursday. I haven’t heard of BT issues. Actually the only guy I know that has these claims they have some of the strongest BT connection...no loss during exercise and strong at a far distance from his Iphone. He also has used them for swimming....we shall see.


I have spacious ear canals, so they are made for in-ear headphones. I get a good fit with every bud I try. So that's good.
But with the Tevi, I had to use some tips that prevents the bud to get too far in the ear. Because when they're too tucked inside, I actually experienced some dropouts. When they stick out a little bit more, I have no problems.


----------



## BigZ12 (Sep 30, 2019)

Since I've ruined the rubber lids on my Anbes, I want to buy myself one new affordable TWS.
And as I am in Norway, I don't get to shop at Amazon, so I need to find something at Aliexpress for ex..
I also need the total value (incl shipping) to be under NOK 350 (about $38.50), because of tax/toll/handling at Norwegian customs....

So... the two new ones that attracts me is:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000214520452.html (does anyone know if they have volume- and Siri control, aside with play/pause/skip of course)
https://www.fasttech.com/product/9710477-trn-t200-bluetooth-v5-0-sports-hifi-tws-stereo (have any of you heard this, and have you any experiences with Fasttech ($10 cheaper than at Aliexpress))

Tranya, Mpow, Sabbat etc are either too expensive ref the tax/toll, or only in stores I can't shop.

Any other alternatives?


----------



## Bartig

Tavleen Suri said:


> Thanx for the feedback....less to no bass equals no buy for me....am so glad I chose the e12 ultras over this.... Now just need to wait for the new mw07 to arrive... Basically all they need to do is fix the battery
> 
> Thanks for the review....so will these end up on your "tws favourites " list ??


Very likely! Will renew the list once I’ve reviewed more of the new sub-100 segment.


----------



## Bartig

karloil said:


> Tried today and immediately purchased one. I arrived quite late at the audio shop, the attendant told me I was the 12th person to purchase today!
> 
> Some of the TWs that I've auditioned before, ranking them from highest to lowest in terms of my prefered SQ
> 
> ...



The Tevi is intriguing to say the least. Some reviewers compare them directly to the Momentum True Wireless. Others say they lack bass. 

That doesn’t rhyme in the least bit to me. Very curious how they actually sound.


----------



## Caipirina

BigZ12 said:


> Since I've ruined the rubber lids on my Anbes, I want to buy myself one new affordable TWS.
> And as I am in Norway, I don't get to shop at Amazon, so I need to find something at Aliexpress for ex..
> I also need the total value (incl shipping) to be under NOK 350 (about $38.50), because of tax/toll/handling at Norwegian customs....
> 
> ...



if you want to replace the Anbes, those SSK are exactly the same in white / orange  https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33005202947.html
Those Lenovo look like the same UFO case, but the shape of the buds differs ... 

no clue about the TRN, sorry


----------



## LordToneeus

clerkpalmer said:


> Whelp, my MMCX BT20S arrived and I tried to pair them up with my Dunu T6 and low and behold, the placement of the MMCX on the IEM makes them incompatible with the BT20S.  So, that stinks.  Anyone recommend a nice MMCX IEM to pair with the BT20S?



So far, I am completely satisfied with the BT20s coupled with Westone's UM Pro 30.  And they fit under my motorcycle helmet!  Only issue - and it's admittedly a First World, nit picky complaint - is that one doesn't just pull them out of a charging case and they power on automatically.  That's it.  I don't see how I could improve upon this setup for working out and zipping around on my bike.  

I can't offer any comments regarding phone calls, because, truth be told, I rarely RARELY use my cell phone for phone calls - especially if I'm training (and certainly never if I'm on my bike).  

And for those concerned about the hearing aid look?  Nah.


----------



## Slater (Sep 30, 2019)

I’ve seen you guys talk about the Anbes 359 and some sort of piece that falls off. I have some SSK on the way.

What exactly is it that falls off? Can someone post a photo of what happens, so I can visualize it.

Also, once this part falls off, do the buds cease functioning properly?

Finally, is there something I can do right out of the box to eliminate the problem? Like reinforce some part with glue?

Thanks!


----------



## BigZ12

Slater said:


> I’ve seen you guys talk about the Anbes 359 and some sort of piece that falls off. I have some SSK on the way.
> 
> What exactly is it that falls off? Can someone post a photo of what happens, so I can visualize it.
> 
> ...


The rubber lid covering the button. The glue was ridiculous, at least on the orginal Anbes 359 sold at Aliexpress (I guess I bought it early, and maybe it's better on later builds?)


----------



## BigZ12

Caipirina said:


> if you want to replace the Anbes, those SSK are exactly the same in white / orange  https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33005202947.html
> Those Lenovo look like the same UFO case, but the shape of the buds differs ...
> 
> no clue about the TRN, sorry


Didn't like the color :O Intrigued by the touch controls on the Lenovo and the TRN. Looks like the fit and specs on the TRN is intrguing as well. (but I am a bit sceptical to the Fasttech, since I've never seen anyone in here buying from them)


----------



## Slater

BigZ12 said:


> The rubber lid covering the button. The glue was ridiculous, at least on the orginal Anbes 359 sold at Aliexpress (I guess I bought it early, and maybe it's better on later builds?)



Is it even necessary, assuming I don’t care about it being waterproof or sweat proof?

Is there a plastic button underneath the rubber? Or is the actual button on the circuit board exposed once the rubber falls off?


----------



## Slater (Sep 30, 2019)

BigZ12 said:


> Didn't like the color :O Intrigued by the touch controls on the Lenovo and the TRN. Looks like the fit and specs on the TRN is intrguing as well. (but I am a bit sceptical to the Fasttech, since I've never seen anyone in here buying from them)



I’ve bought a few things from Fasttech in the past (pocket knives and flashlights).

It’s been a few years though, so I don’t know if they’ve gone to the dogs like Gearbest has. I never had any issues the few times I used them though. But then again, I never had to deal with exchanges/returns so I’m not really sure how smooth or reliable their process is.

I used to always price compare between Gearbest, Aliexpress, Banggood, Fasttech, DHgate, and DealExtreme. There was often a decent enough price difference between each of them (due to various sales or coupons) that I could save a lot of money shopping around. Nowadays I just use Aliexpress.


----------



## BigZ12 (Sep 30, 2019)

Slater said:


> Is it even necessary, assuming I don’t care about it being waterproof or sweat proof?
> 
> Is there a plastic button underneath the rubber? Or is the actual button on the circuit board exposed once the rubber falls off?


It's ugly and exposed.
Edit: It still works, but I don't use it because I know what it looks like


----------



## Slater

BigZ12 said:


> It's ugly and exposed.



Hmmm, great.

Well, hopefully they fixed the problem with the SSK version.


----------



## d3myz

jlcsoft said:


> In which position would you place the tranya T3. I am really happy with them. They costed me 39€.
> 
> Regads.


My Tevi's have almost zero bass, I'm going to exchange to verify I got a bad pair. I don't even like listening to them.  I'd rank the tranya T3 above them for overall fit, sound and connectivity and price.


----------



## d3myz

BigZ12 said:


> It's ugly and exposed.
> Edit: It still works, but I don't use it because I know what it looks like


I super glued both the rubber pads on my 359's they work flawlessly now.


----------



## karloil

Caipirina said:


> two more generic questions today:
> 
> Second: anyone in Singapore or know about good TWS shopping there? I know the place a bit and I usually check stereo.sg before I go (even signed up as member), but it looks like that i.e. they do not sell any shanling. The brand names like Sony / Bose I know I could find at Challenger ... and well, for cheapo chi-fi at double price and from 3 months ago I will have some fun at Sim Lim Square. Any other spots to look out for? Or is everyone there simply using Lazada / AliExpress ...



Aside from your usual suspects - Jaben, Stereo, Challenger, SLS - you may also check-out AV One, Lend Me Ur Ears, Connect-IT.


----------



## hifi80sman

OK, did it.  We shall see if those 13mm drivers deliver or if they are a muddy mess.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07T5DDSK4/


----------



## Mouseman

hifi80sman said:


> OK, did it.  We shall see if those 13mm drivers deliver or if they are a muddy mess.
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07T5DDSK4/


Do you have a separate wing on your house for all these TWS?


----------



## vstolpner

hifi80sman said:


> OK, did it.  We shall see if those 13mm drivers deliver or if they are a muddy mess.
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07T5DDSK4/



Very curious on this one... Looks really nice! 
Make sure to take photos of how it sits on the eat


----------



## clerkpalmer

hifi80sman said:


> OK, did it.  We shall see if those 13mm drivers deliver or if they are a muddy mess.
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07T5DDSK4/


Oh boy.


----------



## hifi80sman

vstolpner said:


> Very curious on this one... Looks really nice!
> Make sure to take photos of how it sits on the eat


Yeah, metal case, USB-C, and 13mm driver?  I tried not to, but compulsions would not allow me to pass this up.  You never know if it's going to be available next week or ever again, so I had to take a leap while the opportunity was there.

They've been doing good things with 5.8mm to 6mm drivers recently in TWS', but I can tell the difference when there is a larger driver of* equal or better quality* (i.e. MW07).


----------



## d3myz

hifi80sman said:


> Yeah, metal case, USB-C, and 13mm driver?  I tried not to, but compulsions would not allow me to pass this up.  You never know if it's going to be available next week or ever again, so I had to take a leap while the opportunity was there.
> 
> They've been doing good things with 5.8mm to 6mm drivers recently in TWS', but I can tell the difference when there is a larger driver of* equal or better quality* (i.e. MW07).


Ok, now you've got me thinking. I'm returning My Tevi's so I freed up some $$


----------



## cwill

Anyone know if these will fit the Anbes 359/Kissral R18/SSK?

https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B07W69JK96/ref=ox_sc_saved_image_5?smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER&psc=1


----------



## hifi80sman

cwill said:


> Anyone know if these will fit the Anbes 359/Kissral R18/SSK?
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B07W69JK96/ref=ox_sc_saved_image_5?smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER&psc=1


For what it's worth, I use the Med. Momentum True Wireless tips on my Anbes 359.  If these are made for the MTW, I'd think they would also fit on the Anbes 359.  $20 for some eartips is a little pricey, though!


----------



## The Apostle

Bhelpoori said:


> The Jabra Elite 65s pick up too much background noise when you speak in a noise or windy environment but they are OK...
> 
> Hence why the Plantronics 5100 are interesting to me. Plantronics have a great reputation for making decent call quality and suppressing background noise...



That's the one issue I have with my Jabra elite 65t.  For work purposes they are nearly perfect in every other way.  They truly pick up everything around me and people mentioned so many times I stopped using them for business calls.  

Picked up the Plantronics UC 6200.  Happened to be before the 5200 was released, otherwise I would have gone that route.  For calls these are rock solid and do a good job of not picking up surrounding audio.  My complaint about the 6200 is they do not have an option for "NO" sidetone.  I love that feature on the Jabra.  I emailed Plantronics about it and received the usual response of "they'll send along the information but cannot be certain if that will be added".


----------



## cwill

hifi80sman said:


> For what it's worth, I use the Med. Momentum True Wireless tips on my Anbes 359.  If these are made for the MTW, I'd think they would also fit on the Anbes 359.  $20 for some eartips is a little pricey, though!


Thank you.


----------



## Slater (Sep 30, 2019)

hifi80sman said:


> For what it's worth, I use the Med. Momentum True Wireless tips on my Anbes 359.  If these are made for the MTW, I'd think they would also fit on the Anbes 359.  $20 for some eartips is a little pricey, though!



Do regular IEM eartips fit on the Anbes, or does it require those really shallow tips like many TW earphones?

For example, I’m using regular eartips on my QCY QS1.


----------



## cwill

Slater said:


> Do regular IEM eartips fit on the Anbes, or does it require those really shallow tips like many TW earphones?


Regular are fine.


----------



## VTman (Sep 30, 2019)

Ordered Whizzer B6 from Aliexpress on 9/17 and received them this morning in Canada. Initial impression matches what Gamesky commented on those Mezone's in terms of SQ.
Few quick photos comparing them side by side with the Ablegrid Kanoe in case anyone is curious. The Kanoe buds should have very similar size and shape as Anbes 359 if not identical. The B6 is longer yet lighter.


----------



## cwill

VTman said:


> Ordered Whizzer B6 from Aliexpress on 9/17 and received them this morning. Initial impression matches what Gamesky commented on those Mezone's in terms of SQ.
> Few quick photos comparing them side by side with the Ablegrid Kanoe in case anyone is curious. The Kanoe buds should have very similar size and shape as Anbes 359 if not identical. The B6 is longer yet lighter.


How does the Kanoe sound? Similar but better than Anbes?


----------



## hifi80sman

d3myz said:


> Ok, now you've got me thinking. I'm returning My Tevi's so I freed up some $$


Do it!  It'd be good to have some additional feedback as well from others that may have a different preference in sound signature.  I try to be as objective as possible when providing general feedback.

I find when someone says they really like clarity, it means they're more into treble-focused signatures that, in my opinion, are brighter than neutral (even though they may think they enjoy neutral).  Conversely, when someone says they enjoy bass, they really mean they want something that will make you want to slap yo' momma.


----------



## Soreniglio (Sep 30, 2019)

Hey guys, is this a good rebrand of Mifo? https://www.amazon.it/Auricolari-Bokman-O5-Cancellazione-riproduzione/dp/B07RZSVP62/ref=sr_1_282?__mk_it_IT=ÅMÅŽÕÑ&crid=2X8EM6KGIIEQ2&keywords=auricolari+bluetooth+wireless&qid=1569875125&smid=A3DDWS6LCW25YZ&sprefix=auricoalri+bluetooth+wireless,aps,191&sr=8-282


These look like the rebrand of Jlabs Air, are they good? They cost 25 at checkout https://www.amazon.it/gp/product/B07Q2BXF9L/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?smid=A1NO870UAGO6MU&psc=1


----------



## vstolpner

Soreniglio said:


> Hey guys, is this a good rebrand of Mifo? https://www.amazon.it/Auricolari-Bokman-O5-Cancellazione-riproduzione/dp/B07RZSVP62/ref=sr_1_282?__mk_it_IT=ÅMÅŽÕÑ&crid=2X8EM6KGIIEQ2&keywords=auricolari+bluetooth+wireless&qid=1569875125&smid=A3DDWS6LCW25YZ&sprefix=auricoalri+bluetooth+wireless,aps,191&sr=8-282
> 
> 
> These look like the rebrand of Jlabs Air, are they good? They cost 25 at checkout https://www.amazon.it/gp/product/B07Q2BXF9L/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?smid=A1NO870UAGO6MU&psc=1




That probably is a rebrand of the mifo O5. Most likely it will even have the same box. You should be able to ask the seller to know for sure. Worst case - it's Amazon, just return it


----------



## vstolpner

hifi80sman said:


> Yeah, metal case, USB-C, and 13mm driver?  I tried not to, but compulsions would not allow me to pass this up.  You never know if it's going to be available next week or ever again, so I had to take a leap while the opportunity was there.
> 
> They've been doing good things with 5.8mm to 6mm drivers recently in TWS', but I can tell the difference when there is a larger driver of* equal or better quality* (i.e. MW07).


Speaking of the case... Looks really big. Let us know how big it actually ends up being


----------



## hifi80sman

vstolpner said:


> Speaking of the case... Looks really big. Let us know how big it actually ends up being


Yep.  I'll snap a photo along with some other known cases/sizes.


----------



## jant71

vstolpner said:


> Speaking of the case... Looks really big. Let us know how big it actually ends up being


You can watch the videos that are there...
https://d1y6jrbzotnyjg.cloudfront.n...mO6EYJ-tWZY_&Key-Pair-Id=APKAJ62XWKZ35EOVO4XA


----------



## VTman (Sep 30, 2019)

cwill said:


> How does the Kanoe sound? Similar but better than Anbes?


Kanoe provides very good seal for passive noise isolation, with smooth and warm sound signature to my ears. They have healthy dose of bass, and treble rolled off a bit, mid-range is right where they should be. Will recommend them over Whizzer for the SQ.

Don't have the original Anbes to compare with, sorry.


----------



## dwil

Hi guys,
I'm looking to buy my first pair of TWS iems. Trying to figure out some basics.

How important is aptx? I really want to buy the mifo o5, but i'm holding off because of the lack of aptx. I don't have an iphone. Will the mifo o5 give me noticeably worse latency than aptx iems (like, for example, the mpow t5) when used with my windows laptop/android phone?


Does an IPX7 rating mean you can uses these in the shower? Or is it waterproof only when turned off? 

What tws iems have the smallest shell when worn? Is the anbis 359 shell smaller than the mifo o5? What tws iems have shells smaller than the anbis?

Thanks a ton.


----------



## VTman (Sep 30, 2019)

FYLegend said:


> Gamesky described the Mezone (basically B6 without AptX) as being like all the frequencies were cranked up without going overboard, suggesting it's a lively, punchy sound but he also said they aren't as good overall as something like the Sabbat E12 Ultra.



The Whizzer B6 I ordered from Aliexpress (and waited 2 weeks) is on the brighter side and doesn't seem to have very punchy lower end. It can only go down to around ~40Hz and not as prominent as its other freq ranges, but the sound stage is quite good.


----------



## vstolpner

dwil said:


> Hi guys,
> I'm looking to buy my first pair of TWS iems. Trying to figure out some basics.
> 
> How important is aptx? I really want to buy the mifo o5, but i'm holding off because of the lack of aptx. I don't have an iphone. Will the mifo o5 give me noticeably worse latency than aptx iems (like, for example, the mpow t5) when used with my windows laptop/android phone?
> ...



Check out Shanling MTW100. They have a BA and DD version, just like mifo O5. But they also have a much smaller case, nearly identical shells (though with touch controls), and come with ambient mode. The BA Shanling are an improvement over the BA mifo in just about every way, imagine the DD are as well. See my review (signature) for more details, I've reviewed both.

aptX is good but it's not the "end all, be all" that it's made out to be. AAC is really good and 90% of the sound comes down to everything besides the codec.

The Anbes 359 shell is a little smaller than mifo O5/Shanling MTW100, but not by much. And I find I prefer the mifo/Shanling shell.


----------



## dwil

vstolpner said:


> Check out Shanling MTW100. They have a BA and DD version, just like mifo O5. But they also have a much smaller case, nearly identical shells (though with touch controls), and come with ambient mode. The BA Shanling are an improvement over the BA mifo in just about every way, imagine the DD are as well. See my review (signature) for more details, I've reviewed both.
> 
> aptX is good but it's not the "end all, be all" that it's made out to be. AAC is really good and 90% of the sound comes down to everything besides the codec.
> 
> The Anbes 359 shell is a little smaller than mifo O5/Shanling MTW100, but not by much. And I find I prefer the mifo/Shanling shell.



I looked at the shanling mtw100, but their DD version only comes in white, and I really don't want to wear white iems. 

How much worse is the bass on the black BA mtw100 than on the DD mifo? Is there any subbass at all? 

Also, any response to the IPX7 thing? Can you use these while in the shower/sauna or is the waterproofing only for when they're turned off?


----------



## hifi80sman

vstolpner said:


> aptX is good but it's not the "end all, be all" that it's made out to be. AAC is really good and 90% of the sound comes down to everything besides the codec.


So true.  Quality drivers, acoustic design, and overall tuning are considerably more important than codec.  Bear in mind, it's all part of an overall recipe to make the magic happen, so failure in one area could be more problematic than failure in another.  Having bad drivers kills everything, no matter the chipset, codec, etc.  Poor design leading to poor seal, well, no go there as well.

That being said, all else being equal, aptX is my choice via Android, while AAC (really, no other choice) is my pick over iPhone (Apple does AAC quite well and better than Android).


----------



## vstolpner

dwil said:


> I looked at the shanling mtw100, but their DD version only comes in white, and I really don't want to wear white iems.
> 
> How much worse is the bass on the black BA mtw100 than on the DD mifo? Is there any subbass at all?
> 
> Also, any response to the IPX7 thing? Can you use these while in the shower/sauna or is the waterproofing only for when they're turned off?


BA drivers don't have the oomph for impactful bass, but the frequencies are all there and audible. The Knowles BA in the Shanling has more bass then off brand BA drivers, but the recessed bass is a factor for all single BA earphones.

As for waterproofing... It's kind of like on phones... I wouldn't trust it on anything worth more than I would be willing to replace on a regular basis if you're taking it into shower. Sauna is even worse as most waterproofing is against water, not steam.

Oh and the mtw100 really opens up spacially when used with ambient mode on. It's really quite something!

Btw, for comparison of the BA vs DD mifo O5, check out YouTube... I think it's the Gamesky channel that compared them. Just keep in mind he's got a strong leaning to bass.


----------



## dwil (Sep 30, 2019)

vstolpner said:


> BA drivers don't have the oomph for impactful bass, but the frequencies are all there and audible. The Knowles BA in the Shanling has more bass then off brand BA drivers, but the recessed bass is a factor for all single BA earphones.
> 
> As for waterproofing... It's kind of like on phones... I wouldn't trust it on anything worth more than I would be willing to replace on a regular basis if you're taking it into shower. Sauna is even worse as most waterproofing is against water, not steam.
> 
> ...



I'm definitely leaning towards the DD one... might bite the bullet and get a white colored shanling.

That said, are there any other 3'rd party rebranded versions of the mifo o5 dd that's available in black?

Also, can you comment on the touch interface vs the button interface? Would it, for instance, be possible to lie down with the touch interface mtw100 on? Or would the pillow set off the touch control every time it lean to the side?


----------



## vstolpner

dwil said:


> I'm definitely leaning towards the DD one... might bite the bullet and get a white colored shanling.
> 
> That said, are there any other 3'rd party rebranded versions of the mifo o5 dd that's available in black?
> 
> Also, can you comment on the touch interface vs the button interface? Would it, for instance, be possible to lie down with the touch interface mtw100 on? Or would the pillow set off the touch control every time it lean to the side?



For sleeping the buttons on the mifo might be better but I think the low volume chime is quite loud. Not sure about Shanling low volume chime. Touch is activated by items that conduct electricity (more specifically that have capacitance). The pillow should be fine, but your arm definitely would. That said, the accidental touches on Shanling are very rare due to their touch configuration.

As for color... You can always paint them. A few people in here have painted theirs.
And for water proofing, plug the mic hole, but that would defeat the ambient mode....


----------



## d3myz

hifi80sman said:


> Do it!  It'd be good to have some additional feedback as well from others that may have a different preference in sound signature.  I try to be as objective as possible when providing general feedback.
> 
> I find when someone says they really like clarity, it means they're more into treble-focused signatures that, in my opinion, are brighter than neutral (even though they may think they enjoy neutral).  Conversely, when someone says they enjoy bass, they really mean they want something that will make you want to slap yo' momma.


That's an astute observation. Personally I'm really partial to balance, I like a little bump at each end of the spectrum. for example with the Tevi it's very bright bordering too bright to turn up, yet the T5 is not quite bright enough. sorry I've been listening to them both a lot lately. But then I compare it to the Tin Audio T2 and WHOA, the Tevi's don't sound near as good. And the T2 if your familiar has literally no bass. so it's not really about bass or treble for me, it's about balance and enjoying all the different signatures of the earbuds, unfortunately the Tevi's are an earbud that Need that bass to even out the clear highs for me. I don't know how to explain it better, but the T2 can get loud and it sounds great. The Tevi get's loud and it's unpleasant. I hope that makes sense. Oh, I used a crappy $20 BT 4.2 cable to test the T2's. I think I'm going to buy an BT20s and see how my ibasso it01s sound on it.


----------



## chinmie

d3myz said:


> That's an astute observation. Personally I'm really partial to balance, I like a little bump at each end of the spectrum. for example with the Tevi it's very bright bordering too bright to turn up, yet the T5 is not quite bright enough. sorry I've been listening to them both a lot lately. But then I compare it to the Tin Audio T2 and WHOA, the Tevi's don't sound near as good. And the T2 if your familiar has literally no bass. so it's not really about bass or treble for me, it's about balance and enjoying all the different signatures of the earbuds, unfortunately the Tevi's are an earbud that Need that bass to even out the clear highs for me. I don't know how to explain it better, but the T2 can get loud and it sounds great. The Tevi get's loud and it's unpleasant. I hope that makes sense. Oh, I used a crappy $20 BT 4.2 cable to test the T2's. I think I'm going to buy an BT20s and see how my ibasso it01s sound on it.



if you have a good seal, the T2 (even without vent mod) has good amount of bass. i myself like the T2 Pro more, because it is more extended in the subbass and the highest treble. i do have to use modded tips with both the T2 and T2 Pro to reduce the treble volume


----------



## Caipirina

Soreniglio said:


> Hey guys, is this a good rebrand of Mifo? https://www.amazon.it/Auricolari-Bokman-O5-Cancellazione-riproduzione/dp/B07RZSVP62/ref=sr_1_282?__mk_it_IT=ÅMÅŽÕÑ&crid=2X8EM6KGIIEQ2&keywords=auricolari+bluetooth+wireless&qid=1569875125&smid=A3DDWS6LCW25YZ&sprefix=auricoalri+bluetooth+wireless,aps,191&sr=8-282
> 
> 
> These look like the rebrand of Jlabs Air, are they good? They cost 25 at checkout https://www.amazon.it/gp/product/B07Q2BXF9L/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?smid=A1NO870UAGO6MU&psc=1


Make
It
Fully
Optimal

that’s a dead giveaway for MIFO  also the O5 in the name. But from the description I take it it’s the DD and not the BA version 

as for ipx7... I think someone here ruined their Mifos under the shower.  The waterproof claim is always nice and well, but has anyone ever successfully disputed water damage? Seller will just say ‘then it got wetter than it should have’ ...


----------



## vstolpner

Caipirina said:


> Make
> It
> Fully
> Optimal
> ...



Completely agree re. water damage... Even waterproof/underwater cameras don't cover water damage... It's always a question of "when" it will be ruined by water, not "if"...


----------



## dwil

Has anyone bought from fasttech before? These are just the anbes 359 rebranded, right? 

https://www.fasttech.com/products/0/10065322/9710948-q9a-bluetooth-v5-0-tws-sports-stereo-earbuds


----------



## paulwasabii

dwil said:


> Has anyone bought from fasttech before? These are just the anbes 359 rebranded, right?
> 
> https://www.fasttech.com/products/0/10065322/9710948-q9a-bluetooth-v5-0-tws-sports-stereo-earbuds



Not sure if those are anbes rebranded but I have ordered more than a few things from fasttech.


----------



## d3myz (Sep 30, 2019)

Great Photos! I think i'm going to pick up those Kanoe's.


----------



## dwil

Alright, I need help with decision-making. Not sure if I should buy the mifo o5 or if I should pay the extra money for the galaxy buds. Shot in the dark, does anyone have both of these? How much larger is the shell/earpiece of the gbuds than the mifo o5?


----------



## chinmie

dwil said:


> Alright, I need help with decision-making. Not sure if I should buy the mifo o5 or if I should pay the extra money for the galaxy buds. Shot in the dark, does anyone have both of these? How much larger is the shell/earpiece of the gbuds than the mifo o5?



if you like warmer sound, thicker mids, smaller sized earpiece, longer overall battery, and higher water resistance, go with the Mifo o5, 
if you like cleaner harman-curve type of sound, better tweakable sound preset, touch control, ambient mode, update-able firmware, and smaller case, go with the Gbuds.

if you often take calls in a noisy environment, the mifo is better than the Gbuds. 

i personally like the Gbuds better


----------



## hifi80sman

EWA T200
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07T5DDSK4/

Any good?  No.  No, they are not.  Save your money.  They are absolutely muffled and muddy.  Nice metal case, but that's about it.  Spent about 2 minutes listening (good seal, not fit issues) and promptly took them off and placed them back in the box.  The buttons are underneath the exterior shell and a pain to press.  The left side was OK, but the right side was really stiff with very little tactile feedback.  Pretty bad.  Go ahead and avoid these.


----------



## Luchyres

hifi80sman said:


> EWA T200
> https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07T5DDSK4/
> 
> Any good?  No.  No, they are not.  Save your money.  They are absolutely muffled and muddy.  Nice metal case, but that's about it.  Spent about 2 minutes listening (good seal, not fit issues) and promptly took them off and placed them back in the box.  The buttons are underneath the exterior shell and a pain to press.  The left side was OK, but the right side was really stiff with very little tactile feedback.  Pretty bad.  Go ahead and avoid these.



Thank you for your service.


----------



## FYLegend

VTman said:


> The Whizzer B6 I ordered from Aliexpress (and waited 2 weeks) is on the brighter side and doesn't seem to have very punchy lower end. It can only go down to around ~40Hz and not as prominent as its other freq ranges, but the sound stage is quite good.


Well it's possible that Whizzer themselves tweaked it. It seems the Mezone has AptX but AAC isn't listed and nobody has confirmed it or not, while Whizzer appears to support both.

I just ordered the camo Sabbat E12 Ultra from Aliexpress, but it seems the seller has a long turnaround time to ship out the order though as my payment wasn't immediately verified...


----------



## VTman

FYLegend said:


> Well it's possible that Whizzer themselves tweaked it. It seems the Mezone has AptX but AAC isn't listed and nobody has confirmed it or not, while Whizzer appears to support both.
> 
> I just ordered the camo Sabbat E12 Ultra from Aliexpress, but it seems the seller has a long turnaround time to ship out the order though as my payment wasn't immediately verified...


Good for you! I believe the late response from your seller could be because of their national holidays in China this whole week...


----------



## Cretz42

A couple of questions regarding the shanling MTW100: can they be turned off by touch and not need the case to shut down? Also where would be the best place to buy from online for fast shipping to USA?


----------



## BigZ12

d3myz said:


> I like a little bump at each end of the spectrum. for example with the Tevi it's very bright bordering too bright to turn up... ...unfortunately the Tevi's are an earbud that need that bass to even out the clear highs for me. The Tevi get's loud and it's unpleasant. I hope that makes sense.



I don't have any stocks at Lypertek, and I have maybe been commenting enough about them now... BUT I just have to say one more thing. 
What you are experiencing make NO sense. I have been using mine now when I have been washing my apartment for an hour and a half. With the Flexfit foam tips I have PLENTY bass with all kinds of music. (Hip hop to modern rock on my playlist)
I turned up the volume to over 2/3 now on an aggressive Fall out boy song, and it's not unpleasant and shrill whatsoever! Plenty bass, good vocals and detailed highs.
BTW, I have very good hearing (ref all the comments on the Senn' MTW and "SBC noise, and crackle"  so it's not that my ears don't hear the high notes you find unpleasant either...

So... either you don't get a decent fit (they're quite big?), or you have a dud!!


----------



## mattedialdoc

BigZ12 said:


> I don't have any stocks at Lypertek, and I have maybe been commenting enough about them now... BUT I just have to say one more thing.
> What you are experiencing make NO sense. I have been using mine now when I have been washing my apartment for an hour and a half. With the Flexfit foam tips I have PLENTY bass with all kinds of music. (Hip hop to modern rock on my playlist)
> I turned up the volume to over 2/3 now on an aggressive Fall out boy song, and it's not unpleasant and shrill whatsoever! Plenty bass, good vocals and detailed highs.
> BTW, I have very good hearing (ref all the comments on the Senn' MTW and "SBC noise, and crackle"  so it's not that my ears don't hear the high notes you find unpleasant either...
> ...



Ditto. My buddy came over yesterday and got to compare the Tevi to a few I had laying around...the B530, MPOW, and Bomaker SiFi. The Tevi are awesome. It doesn’t bass like the T3...but hated the form factor on that one anyway. It has tight clean bass, and the most vocal and high/mid clarity of any I’ve tried thus far. Mine arrive later this week and I’ll give more impressions. I know everyone’s ears are different...but I think maybe the OP got a defective pair or something. For $89 these check all the boxes.


----------



## d3myz

BigZ12 said:


> I don't have any stocks at Lypertek, and I have maybe been commenting enough about them now... BUT I just have to say one more thing.
> What you are experiencing make NO sense. I have been using mine now when I have been washing my apartment for an hour and a half. With the Flexfit foam tips I have PLENTY bass with all kinds of music. (Hip hop to modern rock on my playlist)
> I turned up the volume to over 2/3 now on an aggressive Fall out boy song, and it's not  Lunpleasant and shrill whatsoever! Plenty bass, good vocals and detailed highs.
> BTW, I have very good hearing (ref all the comments on the Senn' MTW and "SBC noise, and crackle"  so it's not that my ears don't hear the high notes you find unpleasant either...
> ...


The fit isn't the problem, The MPOW is the same Chassis and they fit and seal fine, so do the TEVI. They are just underwhelming. I contacted Lypertek, they told me they are audiophile tuned, but should have close to the same amount of bass as the T5 which is fantastic. mine don't. They are mid boosted and lacking low end, so they are getting exchanged when they are back in stock on amazon. If my second pair sound the same. They are going back. I listen to mine around 75% volume and they sound sharp. Remember, all of our ear canals are physically different so our hearing is all subjective. Impressions are great but they don't mean we are all going to have the same experience. I can only compare the Tevi to other TWS' I own and the T5's because they are nearly physically identical. If the T5 sounds like a bass cannon compared to the Tevi, something is wrong with my Tevi.


----------



## RobinFood

I had a few questions for anyone with the Shanling MT100 BA version.

I was wondering how big the case is?
Do the LEDs blink when they are connected to a source on standby or playing music?
Is the profile small enough to semi-comfortably sleep on?
Do they have any hissing or ground noise normally? What about in ambient mode?

I really like the tonality and timbre of BAs, especially for clarity. It's the reason I am a big fan of the ER4 series.


----------



## vstolpner

RobinFood said:


> I had a few questions for anyone with the Shanling MT100 BA version.
> 
> I was wondering how big the case is?
> Do the LEDs blink when they are connected to a source on standby or playing music?
> ...



You won't be disappointed with these. I'm a fan of BA sound as well and really like these.

They should be fine for sleeping though I'm not sure if the touch controls won't activate. The mifo O5 are better in that regard as their buttons are harder to press.

The Knowles BA's sound great and there is no hiss when listening. In ambient mode there's a slight hiss as the mic is pretty sensitive. But with ambient mode these have an interesting effect where they really open up spacially. I know I keep mentioning this but it's really cool.

Not sure about the LEDs, can test later, but they're really rather dim so don't think they would bother anyone.


----------



## The Apostle

Do the Mifo compare in any way to the Jabra Elite 65t?


----------



## BigZ12

d3myz said:


> The fit isn't the problem, The MPOW is the same Chassis and they fit and seal fine, so do the TEVI. They are just underwhelming. I contacted Lypertek, they told me they are audiophile tuned, but should have close to the same amount of bass as the T5 which is fantastic. mine don't. They are mid boosted and lacking low end, so they are getting exchanged when they are back in stock on amazon. If my second pair sound the same. They are going back. I listen to mine around 75% volume and they sound sharp. Remember, all of our ear canals are physically different so our hearing is all subjective. Impressions are great but they don't mean we are all going to have the same experience. I can only compare the Tevi to other TWS' I own and the T5's because they are nearly physically identical. If the T5 sounds like a bass cannon compared to the Tevi, something is wrong with my Tevi.


I didn't mean to attack you, and your experience with the Tevis  I am just surprised by your findings, and just hope you'll have a 100% working set when you get your exchange.


----------



## sanity8me

Not sure if you guys are aware of this: 
https://www.phonearena.com/news/lg-tone-plus-free-true-wireless-earbuds-apple-airpods-rival_id119339


----------



## karloil

my Tevi's


----------



## Slater

dwil said:


> Has anyone bought from fasttech before? These are just the anbes 359 rebranded, right?
> 
> https://www.fasttech.com/products/0/10065322/9710948-q9a-bluetooth-v5-0-tws-sports-stereo-earbuds



https://www.head-fi.org/threads/goi...re-we-there-yet.861024/page-840#post-15218121


----------



## Blueshound24

BigZ12 said:


> I don't have any stocks at Lypertek, and I have maybe been commenting enough about them now... BUT I just have to say one more thing.
> What you are experiencing make NO sense. I have been using mine now when I have been washing my apartment for an hour and a half. With the Flexfit foam tips I have PLENTY bass with all kinds of music. (Hip hop to modern rock on my playlist)
> I turned up the volume to over 2/3 now on an aggressive Fall out boy song, and it's not unpleasant and shrill whatsoever! Plenty bass, good vocals and detailed highs.
> BTW, I have very good hearing (ref all the comments on the Senn' MTW and "SBC noise, and crackle"  so it's not that my ears don't hear the high notes you find unpleasant either...
> ...





mattedialdoc said:


> Ditto. My buddy came over yesterday and got to compare the Tevi to a few I had laying around...the B530, MPOW, and Bomaker SiFi. The Tevi are awesome. It doesn’t bass like the T3...but hated the form factor on that one anyway. It has tight clean bass, and the most vocal and high/mid clarity of any I’ve tried thus far. Mine arrive later this week and I’ll give more impressions. I know everyone’s ears are different...but I think maybe the OP got a defective pair or something. For $89 these check all the boxes.





karloil said:


> my Tevi's




Has anyone compared the tws600 vs Tevi? 
My impression of the tws600 was that it had a very clear sound due to it being mid-centric, however the bass was very weak and unacceptable to me, and I am not a basshead. If the Tevi has more bass than the tws600 I think I will go for it.


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## TonySunshine

I think most people won't find the Tevi to have enough Bass for them. The mid bass is scooped out, which is where most of the perceived bass in pop music is. The Tevi's have a diffuse field tuning, similar to Etymotic, but with a sub bass boost. So its an "audiophile" tuning, rather than the main stream tuning of the Mpow T5. As far as I can tell, hardware between the T5 and Tevi are exactly the same, its only the tuning(and I guess the case material) that is different.



Blueshound24 said:


> Has anyone compared the tws600 vs Tevi?
> My impression of the tws600 was that it had a very clear sound due to it being mid-centric, however the bass was very weak and unacceptable to me, and I am not a basshead. If the Tevi has more bass than the tws600 I think I will go for it.


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## RobinFood

vstolpner said:


> You won't be disappointed with these. I'm a fan of BA sound as well and really like these.
> 
> They should be fine for sleeping though I'm not sure if the touch controls won't activate. The mifo O5 are better in that regard as their buttons are harder to press.
> 
> ...



Thanks for the info. They sound really good and I think I would enjoy them. I really need to know about the LEDs before ordering them though, as I often listen to music on the dark before sleeping when the wife is asleep, and even faint LEDs in a dark room are like two mini sun's.


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## Blueshound24

TonySunshine said:


> I think most people won't find the Tevi to have enough Bass for them. The mid bass is scooped out, which is where most of the perceived bass in pop music is. The Tevi's have a diffuse field tuning, similar to Etymotic, but with a sub bass boost. So its an "audiophile" tuning, rather than the main stream tuning of the Mpow T5. As far as I can tell, hardware between the T5 and Tevi are exactly the same, its only the tuning(and I guess the case material) that is different.




I think it is universally recognized the TWS600 is a tad shouty and the bass is definitely recessed being a mid-centric IEM. The tws600 is the only tws I have auditioned and I agree with those impressions. I would be really interested in a comparison between the former and Tevi.


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## hifi80sman

Blueshound24 said:


> I think it is universally recognized the TWS600 is a tad shouty and the bass is definitely recessed being a mid-centric IEM. The tws600 is the only tws I have auditioned and I agree with those impressions. I would be really interested in a comparison between the former and Tevi.


A _*tad *_shouty?  

Those look like they sound really bad!  LOL!


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## Blueshound24

hifi80sman said:


> A _*tad *_shouty?
> 
> Those look like they sound really bad!  LOL!




In real life, away from graphs, IMO they were a TAD shouty, otherwise they sounded very balanced with good highs, however the bass was recessed.


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## hifi80sman

Blueshound24 said:


> In real life, away from graphs, IMO they were a TAD shouty, otherwise they sounded very balanced with good highs, however the bass was recessed.


Yeah, real life and graphs are different...so many variables.  For the sake of humor, the graph and "tad shouty" made me laugh.

"The JVC HA-SZ2000 are _slightly _bass elevated." - Deaf Guy


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## vstolpner

RobinFood said:


> Thanks for the info. They sound really good and I think I would enjoy them. I really need to know about the LEDs before ordering them though, as I often listen to music on the dark before sleeping when the wife is asleep, and even faint LEDs in a dark room are like two mini sun's.



Just spent a minute starting at these... No blinking LEDs.
FWIW - even when the LEDs do blink they're very dim. I like to sleep in a very dark room and I don't think they would bother me


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## jasaero (Oct 1, 2019)

Since the subject is still on MTW100, very interested as these are the only so far that are under $100 with noise cancelling and an ambient mode.  But really would like a better idea of the BA vs Dynamic.  Never even had BA headphones.  Any really affordable wired BA for me to get a feel for that?  Like $20 or less? 

Also, I don't fully agree with some of the assertions about tuning vs "clearity" here here in this thread either.  I get the idea, and even agree it's a good way to communicate the intentions of the buds one has found and tried, but just cause something is bright sounding doesn't mean it sounds more like what I would expect the actual instruments to sound in person or what I figure the folks doing the recording intended.  Clean/clearity to me means you are hearing what was recorded as it was recorded and similar, but different sounds aren't getting garbled together too much and turned into something different all together.  Generally though I do get how boosting bass response can somewhat muddy the rest of the sound and focusing more on mids and highs can make it seem like it sounds cleaner.  But in my experience really good flat response and full range "anything"....speakers, over ears, in ears, whatever, can be both flat and uncolored tuning wise and sound very clear a various frequencies and have an open sound stage and such without much of any w, v, or u in the tuning....while also really hitting the bass levels good if that is the focus of the content being played.  I've had HD580 and HD595, and sorta am after a sound that can go toe to toe to a degree with that unequalized.  Totally get in-ears are going to have trouble there without a bit of trickery.  It's something getting me toward that clearity level I am after though rather than something to do with how they were tuned.  Those could only be tuned with my own equalizing and they tend to sound cleaner than a lot of different headphones I have tried regardless of how I equalize them.

I am just skeptical of all the BA hype or I probably would have tried some.  Probably Oluv's Gadgets on the YouTube has made me apprehensive of trying anything BA at any price! Haha.  I totally get how him testing in-ears may have went south though as he may just have something biologically with his ears vs the average biology that make the BA's iffy for him.  But to me a proper flat response noise maker of any kind should sound almost as good playing classical music as it does heavy rap.  And I get how that is difficult and spendy with speakers in a large room and things like that, but with sealed in ears the engineering issue of the differences in air movement from one content type to the next should be much less difficult to solve.  Although the sealed nature and biology differences to complicate matters.  Anyhow posting here partly cause I have hope for TWS IEMs, but don't know what to try next.  Have tried 2 or 3 at $50 or so and am still south of some $10 wired ones I have, haha!


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## BigZ12

TonySunshine said:


> I think most people won't find the Tevi to have enough Bass for them. The mid bass is scooped out, which is where most of the perceived bass in pop music is. The Tevi's have a diffuse field tuning, similar to Etymotic, but with a sub bass boost. So its an "audiophile" tuning, rather than the main stream tuning of the Mpow T5. As far as I can tell, hardware between the T5 and Tevi are exactly the same, its only the tuning(and I guess the case material) that is different.


Posted this before, but this is what Marco at Lypertek answered when I asked about the similarities of the Mpow T5 and the Tevi:
"Of course not the re-brand for MPOW models. We made the own tooling and tunes the sound by ourselves to meet our requirements.  If you have the MPOW model, you can compare the sound by yourself.  Then you will know. 
The tooling means the mold to inject the plastic parts.  You can see the upper cover  of TEVI is unique from the market."


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## Iron-Buddha

Just got the Tevi delivered.  First impressions are very good.  It does a great job of imaging, on Made in Heights' Mantis, the rattle thing is thrown far left with a great sense of depth.   Nothing as realistic as my Focal Clear's, which made me jump thinking something fell, but better than the Sabbat E12's and comparable to my CA Vega's.  The Tevi's also have a great sense of space and air around vocals.  It does lack a bit of horsepower in the bass.  I would say it's probably closer to flat (neither the Vega or the Clear are flat), but the Vega's are able to mix clarity with deep rich bass in a way that is special.   I wouldn't say the bass is not there, or severely lacking, but it's not emphasized.   That being said, so far, I am enjoying them more than the E12's, which have gobs of bass, but lacks air and clarity.   The E12's convey a club-like sound, with physical bass, but also a bit of that claustrophobic feeling that the speakers are pushing too hard for the room size.   It does lend itself to rap, hip-hop and some types of electronica.   Sounds a bit weird on podcasts though.   If Tevi made an app that could push the bass a bit, these would be perfect for me.   I'm using the included foamies, which feel like Shure Olives!!!  

On the physical front, the earpieces look and feel very similar to the Beoplay E8's, with the soft touch plastic being a bit velvety-er on the E8's.   The earpieces are also smaller than the E8.  Unfortunately, the case is about 20% bigger in height and length, making it a bit less pocket friendly.  At this price point, the Tevi's build quality is way above expectation.  Going to run them through more testing, including on my Razer Blade and AK320 via APTX.  I can say there is still a bit of lag on YouTube on the iPhone...although that may be the app itself as nothing seems to make it go away.


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## RobinFood (Oct 1, 2019)

jasaero said:


> Since the subject is still on MTW100, very interested as these are the only so far that are under $100 with noise cancelling and an ambient mode.  But really would like a better idea of the BA vs Dynamic.  Never even had BA headphones.  Any really affordable wired BA for me to get a feel for that?  Like $20 or less?
> 
> Also, I don't fully agree with some of the assertions about tuning vs "clearity" here here in this thread either.  I get the idea, and even agree it's a good way to communicate the intentions of the buds one has found and tried, but just cause something is bright sounding doesn't mean it sounds more like what I would expect the actual instruments to sound in person or what I figure the folks doing the recording intended.  Clean/clearity to me means you are hearing what was recorded as it was recorded and similar, but different sounds aren't getting garbled together too much and turned into something different all together.  Generally though I do get how boosting bass response can somewhat muddy the rest of the sound and focusing more on mids and highs can make it seem like it sounds cleaner.  But in my experience really good flat response and full range "anything"....speakers, over ears, in ears, whatever, can be both flat and uncolored tuning wise and sound very clear a various frequencies and have an open sound stage and such without much of any w, v, or u in the tuning....while also really hitting the bass levels good if that is the focus of the content being played.  I've had HD580 and HD595, and sorta am after a sound that can go toe to toe to a degree with that unequalized.  Totally get in-ears are going to have trouble there without a bit of trickery.  It's something getting me toward that clearity level I am after though rather than something to do with how they were tuned.  Those could only be tuned with my own equalizing and they tend to sound cleaner than a lot of different headphones I have tried regardless of how I equalize them.
> 
> I am just skeptical of all the BA hype or I probably would have tried some.  Probably Oluv's Gadgets on the YouTube has made me apprehensive of trying anything BA at any price! Haha.  I totally get how him testing in-ears may have went south though as he may just have something biologically with his ears vs the average biology that make the BA's iffy for him.  But to me a proper flat response noise maker of any kind should sound almost as good playing classical music as it does heavy rap.  And I get how that is difficult and spendy with speakers in a large room and things like that, but with sealed in ears the engineering issue of the differences in air movement from one content type to the next should be much less difficult to solve.  Although the sealed nature and biology differences to complicate matters.  Anyhow posting here partly cause I have hope for TWS IEMs, but don't know what to try next.  Have tried 2 or 3 at $50 or so and am still south of some $10 wired ones I have, haha!



I don't know if you would be convinced by a BA under 20$ I use the ER4XR. I used to use the HF5 but it was missing done top end extension.

The clarity is real though for the BAs I have tried. I think it has to do with the very fast bass decay. It does affect the feel of weight off the instruments, but for me it is a worthwhile trade-off.

No amount of explaining will do justice to trying it out yourself though. If you have an audio store near by I recommend you give a listen to something like the er4s or er3s, or if fit is an issue I also liked the qdc Neptune for single BA earphones.


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## charleski (Oct 1, 2019)

jasaero said:


> Since the subject is still on MTW100, very interested as these are the only so far that are under $100 with noise cancelling and an ambient mode.  But really would like a better idea of the BA vs Dynamic.  Never even had BA headphones.  Any really affordable wired BA for me to get a feel for that?  Like $20 or less?
> ...
> I am just skeptical of all the BA hype or I probably would have tried some.


There are a few clear advantages for BA driver units:
1) They're small. This allows really small hearing aids or the use of multiple drivers, each tuned for a particular frequency range.
2) They're much more efficient than dynamic drivers. The armature and the diaphragm it drives have far lower mass than found in the cone of a dynamic driver, so it takes less power to move them. There's also a little less power loss from the acoustical impedance mismatch that all drivers suffer (because the mass of the moving diaphragm is higher than the mass of the displaced air).
3) They inherently have a very high electrical impedance (and thus signal rejection) at ultrasonic frequencies. This is more important for hearing aids, which often use class-D amplifiers.
That's about it.

BA's are generally not that good at bass frequencies. But it's possible to tune a single BA by using acoustical filters to damp down the treble so the end result comes close to a subjectively flat response (such as in the Etymotic ER4), though you'll never get the bass slam that a dynamic driver has, so most designs are hybrids that combine the two types of driver. On the other hand, small dynamic drivers are perfectly capable of producing a high-quality treble response too, so there's no real audio magic at work here. The small size means it's easier to create multi-driver designs, but this has to be tuned properly to make sure the responses integrate well (in some designs this ends up meaning the treble frequency response has a lot of narrow peaks in it) .

I think the real answer is that BA drivers appear more exotic.

I wouldn't waste your money on a really cheap BA earphone. It'll sound nasty and won't be representative of a proper design.


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## jasaero

RobinFood said:


> I don't know if you would be convinced by a BA under 20$ I use the ER4XR. I used to use the HF5 but it was missing done top end extension.
> 
> The clarity is real though for the BAs I have tried. I think it has to do with the very fast bass decay. It does affect the feel of weight off the instruments, but for me it is a worthwhile trade-off.
> 
> No amount of explaining will do justice to trying it out yourself though. If you have an audio store near by I recommend you give a listen to something like the er4s or er3s, or if fit is an issue I also liked the qdc Neptune for single BA earphones.





charleski said:


> There are a few clear advantages for BA driver units:
> 1) They're small. This allows really small hearing aids or the use of multiple drivers, each tuned for a particular frequency range.
> 2) They're much more efficient than dynamic drivers. The armature and the diaphragm it drives have far lower mass than found in the cone of a dynamic driver, so it takes less power to move them. There's also a little less power loss from the acoustical impedance mismatch that all drivers suffer (because the mass of the moving diaphragm is higher than the mass of the displaced air).
> 3) They inherently have a very high electrical impedance (and thus signal rejection) at ultrasonic frequencies. This is more important for hearing aids, which often use class-D amplifiers.
> ...



Ok.  I guess I have never found anything that sounded bad about the Etymotic stuff, but never really computed that they are BA.  Guess with the size it make sense.  Figure the only thing I am somewhat confused on is why decent wired ones for $20 would be so out of line if $90 TWS BT, battery for each, battery for case, with ambient mode and all the rest are possible and supposedly decent.  To me a $50 TWS can't have any better final bits after the amp and into your ears than like $10-20 stuff...haha.


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## RobinFood

jasaero said:


> Ok.  I guess I have never found anything that sounded bad about the Etymotic stuff, but never really computed that they are BA.  Guess with the size it make sense.  Figure the only thing I am somewhat confused on is why decent wired ones for $20 would be so out of line if $90 TWS BT, battery for each, battery for case, with ambient mode and all the rest are possible and supposedly decent.  To me a $50 TWS can't have any better final bits after the amp and into your ears than like $10-20 stuff...haha.



Well there is the fact that Knowles BAs are quite expensive. Some people made their own custom iems and the brand name Knowles BA speakers probably cost 6$ a piece. Cables can also be expensive, more so than some of the Bluetooth components if you look at diy projects, and plugs too can get pricey.

I would trust a 100$ BA from a reputable company or with good reviews, but not a 20$ one. In the same light the fact that the shanling uses a Knowles driver inspires some confidence. The Astrotec s60 also used a Knowles driver and sounded very good to me. It was also about the same price, just a little shy of 100$.


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## howdy

Amazon has the Sony WF1000XM1 for 69.00.


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## FYLegend

How is the TEVI's isolation in relation to bass response? That is one area the Jabra 65t struggles with - I hear bass at home but once I'm on the train it's drowned out even at high volume. The Jabees Firefly Pro has similarly mediocre isolation, but its bass is still able to preserve its impact (although, it is a midbass-bloated sound to begin with).


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## vstolpner

jasaero said:


> Ok.  I guess I have never found anything that sounded bad about the Etymotic stuff, but never really computed that they are BA.  Guess with the size it make sense.  Figure the only thing I am somewhat confused on is why decent wired ones for $20 would be so out of line if $90 TWS BT, battery for each, battery for case, with ambient mode and all the rest are possible and supposedly decent.  To me a $50 TWS can't have any better final bits after the amp and into your ears than like $10-20 stuff...haha.





RobinFood said:


> Well there is the fact that Knowles BAs are quite expensive. Some people made their own custom iems and the brand name Knowles BA speakers probably cost 6$ a piece. Cables can also be expensive, more so than some of the Bluetooth components if you look at diy projects, and plugs too can get pricey.
> 
> I would trust a 100$ BA from a reputable company or with good reviews, but not a 20$ one. In the same light the fact that the shanling uses a Knowles driver inspires some confidence. The Astrotec s60 also used a Knowles driver and sounded very good to me. It was also about the same price, just a little shy of 100$.




I was going to suggest the same thing - check out IEMs with Knowles BA's for a fair comparison.


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## jasaero

RobinFood said:


> Well there is the fact that Knowles BAs are quite expensive. Some people made their own custom iems and the brand name Knowles BA speakers probably cost 6$ a piece. Cables can also be expensive, more so than some of the Bluetooth components if you look at diy projects, and plugs too can get pricey.
> 
> I would trust a 100$ BA from a reputable company or with good reviews, but not a 20$ one. In the same light the fact that the shanling uses a Knowles driver inspires some confidence. The Astrotec s60 also used a Knowles driver and sounded very good to me. It was also about the same price, just a little shy of 100$.



I can see diy getting pricey above $6/driver.  But not really sure mass produced something with $12 in drivers needs to be super spendy.  I get that there are ways to blow cost on wires and other bits, but don't find that generally gains much on the end product with audio stuff.  I get it though, $12 in just a driver is a lot if that is what quality BA drivers cost.  I'm getting closer to giving these MTW100's a try.  Thanks for the information though.  Haven't really researched this much prior.


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## vstolpner

jasaero said:


> I can see diy getting pricey above $6/driver.  But not really sure mass produced something with $12 in drivers needs to be super spendy.  I get that there are ways to blow cost on wires and other bits, but don't find that generally gains much on the end product with audio stuff.  I get it though, $12 in just a driver is a lot if that is what quality BA drivers cost.  I'm getting closer to giving these MTW100's a try.  Thanks for the information though.  Haven't really researched this much prior.



Go for it. You'll like it.
And Shanling is active on this forum too if you have any questions. Always nice to be and to ask someone directly and that's not always the case for Chi-Fi manufacturers.


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## karloil

Blueshound24 said:


> Has anyone compared the tws600 vs Tevi?
> My impression of the tws600 was that it had a very clear sound due to it being mid-centric, however the bass was very weak and unacceptable to me, and I am not a basshead. If the Tevi has more bass than the tws600 I think I will go for it.



I have auditioned the TWS600. To my ears, the TWS600 sounded lifeless. No sparkle in the highs. Mids sounded just ok to me, a bit dry to my taste. Plus, the demo unit had issues with Samsung S10s (Mentioned by the sales guy, I wasn't the only 1). If I remember correctly, both seems to have the same amount/quality of bass.



FYLegend said:


> How is the TEVI's isolation in relation to bass response? That is one area the Jabra 65t struggles with - I hear bass at home but once I'm on the train it's drowned out even at high volume. The Jabees Firefly Pro has similarly mediocre isolation, but its bass is still able to preserve its impact (although, it is a midbass-bloated sound to begin with).



I have both. Have you tried changing tips? Changed to Spinfits and it preserved more bass when I'm in public.


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## vstolpner

Finally got around to finishing my TRN BT20 case. It's not pretty but works well, and it's USB Type-C


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## Blueshound24 (Oct 2, 2019)

karloil said:


> I have auditioned the TWS600. To my ears, the TWS600 sounded lifeless. No sparkle in the highs. Mids sounded just ok to me, a bit dry to my taste. Plus, the demo unit had issues with Samsung S10s (Mentioned by the sales guy, I wasn't the only 1). *If I remember correctly, both seems to have the same amount/quality of bass*.




Oh darn... If the Tevi and tws600 have the same amt of recessed bass I don't think I would want it. The tws600 had very recessed bass and the only way I could listen to it was with EQ, and I hate messing around with that.


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## CardigdanWalk

vstolpner said:


> Finally got around to finishing my TRN BT20 case. It's not pretty but works well, and it's USB Type-C



this is awesome! Really nice work!

I did wonder if the new KZ E10 were detachable, for a similar solution. But it doesn’t say anywhere, so I’m guessing not!


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## Bhelpoori

The Apostle said:


> That's the one issue I have with my Jabra elite 65t.  For work purposes they are nearly perfect in every other way.  They truly pick up everything around me and people mentioned so many times I stopped using them for business calls.
> 
> Picked up the Plantronics UC 6200.  Happened to be before the 5200 was released, otherwise I would have gone that route.  For calls these are rock solid and do a good job of not picking up surrounding audio.  My complaint about the 6200 is they do not have an option for "NO" sidetone.  I love that feature on the Jabra.  I emailed Plantronics about it and received the usual response of "they'll send along the information but cannot be certain if that will be added".


I just checked the website to see what the position with sidetone and can't see whether the app controls it or even whether the 5100s support it. Does someone who has the 5100 any clue whether it does or is controllable? I'm with you, I either want a little sidetone or none at all. The one thing I did notice reading the specs is that there's no real mute button, which is useful on conf calls so that I don't need to fumble for the phone... used that a lot on the old Backbeat Pro and Bose 700. The only mute on the 5100 appears to be taking it out of the ears...which is nice but not useful.

OTOH the Amazon buds also look good according to the specs. Lots of microphones. Mute. Customisable EQ and buttons. Noise reduction. Possibly better sound. Can tell exactly what the battery case is charged at. $30 cheaper. Probably about the same battery life (5 hours is with noise reduction, so probably more without). Out end of October, so will wait until then...


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## FYLegend

karloil said:


> I have both. Have you tried changing tips? Changed to Spinfits and it preserved more bass when I'm in public.


Yeah I changed the Jabra 65t to Earfun Free's eartips, which have increased the isolation and seal a fair bit, but it's still far behind other TWS I've tried as of late.


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## webvan

For Jabra 65T owners out there, I reinstalled the app (not sure where it had gone !) and noticed that there was a FW update dated September 23rd 2019, nothing specific "enhancements and improvements" (or something like that). I'm in the process of doing it.


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## Sohaib Naeem

I am on the hunt for a pair of wireless earbuds (I am in the UK if that makes a difference) and I am looking for something to a sound signature similar to that of my Aurisonic ASG 2.5's.

Any recommendations?


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## webvan

karloil said:


> I have auditioned the TWS600. To my ears, the TWS600 sounded lifeless. No sparkle in the highs. Mids sounded just ok to me, a bit dry to my taste. Plus, the demo unit had issues with Samsung S10s (Mentioned by the sales guy, I wasn't the only 1). If I remember correctly, both seems to have the same amount/quality of bass.
> 
> 
> 
> I have both. Have you tried changing tips? Changed to Spinfits and it preserved more bass when I'm in public.


You've been able to put some SpinFits on the 65t ? Mine (CP100 just come off). I've been pretty happy with the tip that was posted here a while back, i.e. sticking some comply foam inside the stock eartips to improve the isolation. I could clearly use some LL size of the stock eartips.


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## karloil (Oct 2, 2019)

webvan said:


> You've been able to put some SpinFits on the 65t ? Mine (CP100 just come off). I've been pretty happy with the tip that was posted here a while back, i.e. sticking some comply foam inside the stock eartips to improve the isolation. I could clearly use some LL size of the stock eartips.



Yes, CP360. Using both on my 65t and Tevi.


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## HiFlight

webvan said:


> For Jabra 65T owners out there, I reinstalled the app (not sure where it had gone !) and noticed that there was a FW update dated September 23rd 2019, nothing specific "enhancements and improvements" (or something like that). I'm in the process of doing it.


I noticed no recent update on my Sound+ app, so I uninstalled it only to find that Sound+ is no longer listed on Play Store


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## webvan (Oct 2, 2019)

Strange I typed Jabra and it popped up this morning !

@karloil - thanks, I'll have to give them a try, they fit in the 65t's case ? Some people have posted in the Amazon comments that they also work with the WF-1000xm3. Too bad they're so darn expensive but then they can probably last forever


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## Chrisrd

Anyone got the TRN T200, saw it mentioned earlier but no actual review of them. Shape looks comfortable or at least they don't rely solely on tip retention for staying in your ear. Hybrid drivers and APT-X plus AAC are advertised and price seems nice too.


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## HiFlight

Chrisrd said:


> Anyone got the TRN T200, saw it mentioned earlier but no actual review of them. Shape looks comfortable or at least they don't rely solely on tip retention for staying in your ear. Hybrid drivers and APT-X plus AAC are advertised and price seems nice too.


Mine should be arriving any day now.  I will post my impressions after a few test drives.


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## rhsauer

Bhelpoori said:


> I just checked the website to see what the position with sidetone and can't see whether the app controls it or even whether the 5100s support it. Does someone who has the 5100 any clue whether it does or is controllable? I'm with you, I either want a little sidetone or none at all. The one thing I did notice reading the specs is that there's no real mute button, which is useful on conf calls so that I don't need to fumble for the phone... used that a lot on the old Backbeat Pro and Bose 700. The only mute on the 5100 appears to be taking it out of the ears...which is nice but not useful.
> 
> OTOH the Amazon buds also look good according to the specs. Lots of microphones. Mute. Customisable EQ and buttons. Noise reduction. Possibly better sound. Can tell exactly what the battery case is charged at. $30 cheaper. Probably about the same battery life (5 hours is with noise reduction, so probably more without). Out end of October, so will wait until then...



I don’t notice any sidetone on my Plantronics 5100s, and there’s no setting for it in the app.  I’ve also ordered the Amazon buds and am really looking forward to seeing what they’ve done.


----------



## HiFlight

HiFlight said:


> Mine should be arriving any day now.  I will post my impressions after a few test drives.


EDIT:  I just discovered that my order had not yet shipped due to an expired credit card.  Fixed that so now the wait begins anew!


----------



## Bhelpoori

rhsauer said:


> I don’t notice any sidetone on my Plantronics 5100s, and there’s no setting for it in the app.  I’ve also ordered the Amazon buds and am really looking forward to seeing what they’ve done.


Thank you. Will look forward to your views on the Amazon Buds...


----------



## AtariPrime

webvan said:


> You've been able to put some SpinFits on the 65t ? Mine (CP100 just come off). I've been pretty happy with the tip that was posted here a while back, i.e. sticking some comply foam inside the stock eartips to improve the isolation. I could clearly use some LL size of the stock eartips.



And suddenly, the solution made sense as if it was always there and he hated himself for not realizing it.  Genius.  I have some comply foam tips (that I hate), much prefer my silicone Spinfits.  At the gym though I often end up having to apply moisture to my Spinfits to get a good seal.  Sony has a proprietary design they sell (and ship with some models) that has silicone on the outside and foam inside to give them structure.  They are some of my favorites but only available for tips consistent with sony sizing.  Your solution above has given me an answer as to what to do with my comply tips. Thx.


----------



## AtariPrime

Microsoft Surface Earbuds.








 

Apparently these are a thing. Can't say they look like something I want but regardless, here they are.

Price: $249
Battery: 8 hrs
Extra Charge Time in Case: 24 hrs
Availability: 'Later this year'



https://www.theverge.com/2019/10/2/...uds-true-wireless-features-price-release-date


----------



## Slater

RobinFood said:


> Well there is the fact that Knowles BAs are quite expensive. Some people made their own custom iems and the brand name Knowles BA speakers probably cost 6$ a piece. Cables can also be expensive, more so than some of the Bluetooth components if you look at diy projects, and plugs too can get pricey.
> 
> I would trust a 100$ BA from a reputable company or with good reviews, but not a 20$ one. In the same light the fact that the shanling uses a Knowles driver inspires some confidence. The Astrotec s60 also used a Knowles driver and sounded very good to me. It was also about the same price, just a little shy of 100$.



Hmm, Knowles for $6 (for a pair or for 1)? I would watch out for B-stock, factory rejects, or even fakes. Unless perhaps you buy in large bulk wholesale QTY.

The cheapest Knowles I've bought for my DIY IEMs were about $12-$14, and the most expensive was around $100.


----------



## vstolpner

AtariPrime said:


> Microsoft Surface Earbuds.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Well there's definitely a "surface" on these.... A large surface...

Actually reminds me of something Beethoven would use as a hearing aid


----------



## Slater (Oct 2, 2019)

AtariPrime said:


> Microsoft Surface Earbuds.



Those are really ugly. They remind me of those large gauge earrings:


----------



## Mouseman

AtariPrime said:


> Microsoft Surface Earbuds.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Those look like the plug protectors I had to put in my electrical plugs to keep my kids from sticking their fingers in them. So....maybe ear protectors? Not sure how those made it out of a focus group.


----------



## TK33

Mouseman said:


> Those look like the plug protectors I had to put in my electrical plugs to keep my kids from sticking their fingers in them. So....maybe ear protectors? Not sure how those made it out of a focus group.



I was just thinking they look like the plugs you put over screws on Ikea or similar furniture.  Looks pretty difficult to hold as well.  They are also asking to be dropped and lost while taking them in/out of your ears or case...


----------



## mikp

Almost a year since I got the mavins with apt-x. In one year no clues to apt-x hd, but qcc3020 has come to low price tws so that's progress.

Still no buds I find attractive to replace the 65t for hiking
-ambient feature with music
-multipoint
-ipx rating
-volume control

I don`t think ive missed any releases that have all these features.


----------



## Iron-Buddha

Anyone know how to fix the issue where a TW is connecting to Windows 10 as "connected voice".  My Tevi's won't play back audio.   Truly annoying.  Plus, not sure how APTX works on windows 10 but I can't get anything working.


----------



## Slater

Mouseman said:


> Not sure how those made it out of a focus group.



Microsoft makes a lot of bonehead decisions.


----------



## jasaero

As bad as they are, not sure I can say they are much worse than Airpods!  haha.  I'd like to hear some of the discussions when stuff like this is getting designed from firms like Apple and MS.  Suspect discreet is completely out of the question and not an option.


----------



## mattedialdoc (Oct 2, 2019)

The Lypertek Tevi arrived and I’ve spent the morning with them. I mentioned a friend had a pair I had tried and briefly compared but now I have a few hours trial.
Recall I am a newbie, and don’t have the background of you Pro level guys.

First, I didn’t compare them that closely physically before to the MPOW T5/M5. These TEVI appear to be the same base unit. The case is the same case, just has USB-C instead of MicroUSB. The buds are physically similar, with a slightly different case shape and control button.
I’ve now had a chance to play through and compare the T5 to the TEVI. I made sure I was using the same included tips..when I tried before the tips were not the same. Again, I am a novice listener. But at same volume selection and across all genre of music, the T5 seem as good or better. The highs and miss are just as full and crisp on the T5. The T5 has better solid bass. And the T5 at same volume selection is louder. Both are plenty loud.

So if you want a USB C and more advertised battery life.....But otherwise the MPOW are much cheaper and sound better overall. I’m still learning so bear with me as I learn.

Anyone know why TEVI would claim 10hrs when it’s basically the same unit?


----------



## d3myz

hifi80sman said:


> EWA T200
> https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07T5DDSK4/
> 
> Any good?  No.  No, they are not.  Save your money.  They are absolutely muffled and muddy.  Nice metal case, but that's about it.  Spent about 2 minutes listening (good seal, not fit issues) and promptly took them off and placed them back in the box.  The buttons are underneath the exterior shell and a pain to press.  The left side was OK, but the right side was really stiff with very little tactile feedback.  Pretty bad.  Go ahead and avoid these.


Well, that sucks. Mine we'll be here in a day or two.


----------



## Banbeucmas

AtariPrime said:


> Microsoft Surface Earbuds.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I don't think I would like this design tbf. It just looks like they got the apple airpod design and slapped a plate on the back just for the gesture.

Would be surprised if it actually sound good, this would be more like an office setup than actual listening.


----------



## d3myz

mattedialdoc said:


> The Lypertek Tevi arrived and I’ve spent the morning with them. I mentioned a friend had a pair I had tried and briefly compared but now I have a few hours trial.
> Recall I am a newbie, and don’t have the background of you Pro level guys.
> 
> First, I didn’t compare them that closely physically before to the MPOW T5/M5. These TEVI appear to be the same base unit. The case is the same case, just has USB-C instead of MicroUSB. The buds are physically similar, with a slightly different case shape and control button.
> ...


Thank you for the impressions. That confirms my Tevi's are faulty. My Tevi's have no bass and they are all mids and highs and don't go near as loud at the T5. I have two pair of T5's for reference.


----------



## d3myz

Iron-Buddha said:


> Just got the Tevi delivered.  First impressions are very good.  It does a great job of imaging, on Made in Heights' Mantis, the rattle thing is thrown far left with a great sense of depth.   Nothing as realistic as my Focal Clear's, which made me jump thinking something fell, but better than the Sabbat E12's and comparable to my CA Vega's.  The Tevi's also have a great sense of space and air around vocals.  It does lack a bit of horsepower in the bass.  I would say it's probably closer to flat (neither the Vega or the Clear are flat), but the Vega's are able to mix clarity with deep rich bass in a way that is special.   I wouldn't say the bass is not there, or severely lacking, but it's not emphasized.   That being said, so far, I am enjoying them more than the E12's, which have gobs of bass, but lacks air and clarity.   The E12's convey a club-like sound, with physical bass, but also a bit of that claustrophobic feeling that the speakers are pushing too hard for the room size.   It does lend itself to rap, hip-hop and some types of electronica.   Sounds a bit weird on podcasts though.   If Tevi made an app that could push the bass a bit, these would be perfect for me.   I'm using the included foamies, which feel like Shure Olives!!!
> 
> On the physical front, the earpieces look and feel very similar to the Beoplay E8's, with the soft touch plastic being a bit velvety-er on the E8's.   The earpieces are also smaller than the E8.  Unfortunately, the case is about 20% bigger in height and length, making it a bit less pocket friendly.  At this price point, the Tevi's build quality is way above expectation.  Going to run them through more testing, including on my Razer Blade and AK320 via APTX.  I can say there is still a bit of lag on YouTube on the iPhone...although that may be the app itself as nothing seems to make it go away.


Do you own the MPOW T5? If so, could you compare?


----------



## mattedialdoc

d3myz said:


> Thank you for the impressions. That confirms my Tevi's are faulty. My Tevi's have no bass and they are all mids and highs and don't go near as loud at the T5. I have two pair of T5's for reference.



Wait, maybe not.
As noted above my impressions are not dissimilar to what you are saying:
T5 have much more bass and more volume. 
TEVI have very little bass and less volume.
Similar highs and mids on both TEVI and T5. Again that is to my very uneducated ear.


----------



## hifi80sman

d3myz said:


> Well, that sucks. Mine we'll be here in a day or two.


Curious to see what you think, but I believe you like signatures a bit brighter than I do, so I'm thinking you're going to hate them.


----------



## hifi80sman

Slater said:


> Microsoft makes a lot of bonehead decisions.


-  Windows Phone
-  Zune Player
-  Windows Vista (I ran with XP as long as possible.)
-  Windows 8 (What a horrible interface!)
-  Windows RT
-  Internet Explorer (Funny how this crashes far more than 3rd party browsers, on a Windows OS nonetheless.)
-  Tay Bot

I'm sure there MANY others.  Oh, and one more:

-  Microsoft Surface Earbuds (You'll literally look like you're from a 70s space movie.)


----------



## mattedialdoc

d3myz said:


> Do you own the MPOW T5? If so, could you compare?



....yes I mentioned in my comments I was comparing against my T5


----------



## exitfire401

hifi80sman said:


> -  Zune Player



Hey, I resent this one. The boneheaded decision was waiting so long to enter the market. The player itself was (and still is) amazing.


----------



## hifi80sman

exitfire401 said:


> Hey, I resent this one. The boneheaded decision was waiting so long to enter the market. The player itself was (and still is) amazing.


Exactly.  It's like going to a party and bringing 4 large buckets of chicken, but you're 1 hour late and everyone already ate.  Ouch.


----------



## d3myz

mattedialdoc said:


> Wait, maybe not.
> As noted above my impressions are not dissimilar to what you are saying:
> T5 have much more bass and more volume.
> TEVI have very little bass and less volume.
> Similar highs and mids on both TEVI and T5. Again that is to my very uneducated ear.


My T5's sound muddy as hell compared to the Tevi's. even though according to the freq. response charts they are very similar. Even if i want to turn the Tevi up, it's so bright


mattedialdoc said:


> ....yes I mentioned in my comments I was comparing against my T5


I think you commented on the the wrong post, friend  That question was for @Iron-Buddha.


----------



## d3myz

hifi80sman said:


> Curious to see what you think, but I believe you like signatures a bit brighter than I do, so I'm thinking you're going to hate them.


We've been over this, @hifi80sman  I just like stuff that doesn't suck. But you are correct, my preferred signature is a bit brighter than the Stylish and the F16's. Which is odd because I have some pretty decent tinnitus from years of drumming and touring etc.


----------



## d3myz

hifi80sman said:


> -  Windows Phone
> -  Zune Player
> -  Windows Vista (I ran with XP as long as possible.)
> -  Windows 8 (What a horrible interface!)
> ...


I thought the Zune was freaking cool. But I'm with you on Windows Vista, what a s$%tshow and Windows 8, the person child of Windows 10.  They also have some really cool stuff though too.


----------



## d3myz

hifi80sman said:


> Exactly.  It's like going to a party and bringing 4 large buckets of chicken, but you're 1 hour late and everyone already ate.  Ouch.


That just means you have 4 buckets of chicken to eat this week. I don't see a problem here.


----------



## d3myz

mattedialdoc said:


> Wait, maybe not.
> As noted above my impressions are not dissimilar to what you are saying:
> T5 have much more bass and more volume.
> TEVI have very little bass and less volume.
> Similar highs and mids on both TEVI and T5. Again that is to my very uneducated ear.


My T5's sound kind of muted compared to the Tevi's. even though according to the freq. response charts they are very similar. Even if i wanted to turn the Tevi up, it's so bright I can't handle it.


----------



## d3myz (Oct 2, 2019)

hifi80sman said:


> Curious to see what you think, but I believe you like signatures a bit brighter than I do, so I'm thinking you're going to hate them.


I'm probably going to buy these today. Have you heard them?


----------



## mattedialdoc

d3myz said:


> My T5's sound muddy as hell compared to the Tevi's. even though according to the freq. response charts they are very similar. Even if i want to turn the Tevi up, it's so bright
> 
> I think you commented on the the wrong post, friend  That question was for @Iron-Buddha.



Got it.

Yeah I’m not sure even what “muddy” means...just know that after further reflection the Tevi is basically a tweaked T5.


----------



## d3myz

mattedialdoc said:


> Got it.
> 
> Yeah I’m not sure even what “muddy” means...just know that after further reflection the Tevi is basically a tweaked T5.


Muddy meaning lacking definition. In this case in the high mids and treble frequencies. Some call it muted or rolled off etc.


----------



## hifi80sman

howdy said:


> Amazon has the Sony WF1000XM1 for 69.00.


Saw it.  Bought it.

I had these a while back when I was a TWS beginner and I don't think I gave them a fair shot.  I was into more over-ear wireless stuff at the time and the battery didn't wow me at 2.5 to 3 hours.  However, now, I frequently switch from one TWS to another throughout the course of a day just for fun/variety, so battery is not THAT important for me in my current addiction phase.

Also, haven't been too impressed with the WF-1000XM3 reviews, specifically the call quality (doesn't sound good at all) and the lack of volume control for $229.  If they were $179, I could take more omissions, but given many will use this for business, calls should have been a high priority for them.  That's what keeps me from Audio-Technica's wireless stuff, as they have some of the worst integrated headphone/earbud mics in the history of mankind.


----------



## hifi80sman

d3myz said:


> I'm probably going to buy these today. Have you heard them?


I have not heard them, but it looks like the Anbes 359 shell with all new Qualcomm QCC3020 with aptX and a nice metal case.  If the drivers are the same as the Anbes 359, these should be excellent, especially for the price.


----------



## mattedialdoc

d3myz said:


> Muddy meaning lacking definition. In this case in the high mids and treble frequencies. Some call it muted or rolled off etc.



Yeah well I wouldn’t say the T5 are muddy at all. But we all have different ears.


----------



## sly_in_the_sky (Oct 2, 2019)

Hello,

I have been away from this thread for a while and I was wondering if they solved MTW’s charging box problem... 

Perhaps that the subject has been taken but I did not find it in this thread.

Thank you.


----------



## VTman (Oct 2, 2019)

clerkpalmer said:


> Whelp, my MMCX BT20S arrived and I tried to pair them up with my Dunu T6 and low and behold, the placement of the MMCX on the IEM makes them incompatible with the BT20S.  So, that stinks.  Anyone recommend a nice MMCX IEM to pair with the BT20S?



Was playing around the BT20S with few MMCX IEMs this morning. In terms of fitting, the BGVP DMG (last photo) works best for me.


















edited: changed the last photo


----------



## TK33

sly_in_the_sky said:


> Hello,
> 
> I have been away from this thread for a while and I was wondering if they solved MTW’s charging box problem...
> 
> ...



I havent heard anything about a "fix" but I doubt it since they have said in the past that it was a design choice so I dont think they believe there is anything to fix  They did include an option to turn off the buds from the app about 2 updates back but I have never tried it. I just charge my case when I get into the office every day and use other IEMs at work so I have not had any issues with with battery life. 

Battery life on the MW07 Plus looks promising so maybe that is the "fix" I am waiting for (for the issue I dont have but that is besides the point).


----------



## sly_in_the_sky

Thank you for the infos...

I have had 3 times the senns and always sold them or sent them back... Loved the sound but... not convinced about functionality. 

Yes I also had the MWO7 but fitting was awfull...

I will stick with my Jabra 65t (one of the best all rounder and wait eventually for the new 75t...


----------



## cwill

d3myz said:


> We've been over this, @hifi80sman  I just like stuff that doesn't suck. But you are correct, my preferred signature is a bit brighter than the Stylish and the F16's. Which is odd because I have some pretty decent tinnitus from years of drumming and touring etc.


Same here with the tinnitus from drumming . Ugh.


----------



## HiFlight

mikp said:


> Almost a year since I got the mavins with apt-x. In one year no clues to apt-x hd, but qcc3020 has come to low price tws so that's progress.
> 
> Still no buds I find attractive to replace the 65t for hiking
> -ambient feature with music
> ...





mikp said:


> Almost a year since I got the mavins with apt-x. In one year no clues to apt-x hd, but qcc3020 has come to low price tws so that's progress.
> 
> Still no buds I find attractive to replace the 65t for hiking
> -ambient feature with music
> ...



Both of these top my growing collection of TWS buds.  
It might be my imagination, but it seems my 65t sounds better since the recent firmware update.  FWIW, the latest Sound+ now requires at least Android 7 rather than 6 as previously.


----------



## Grayson73

hifi80sman said:


> I have not heard them, but it looks like the Anbes 359 shell with all new Qualcomm QCC3020 with aptX and a nice metal case.  If the drivers are the same as the Anbes 359, these should be excellent, especially for the price.



If he already has the Anbes 359, what's the purpose of getting the Kanoe?  Will the "Qualcomm QCC3020 with aptX" make a difference?


----------



## Mouseman

jasaero said:


> As bad as they are, not sure I can say they are much worse than Airpods!  haha.  I'd like to hear some of the discussions when stuff like this is getting designed from firms like Apple and MS.  Suspect discreet is completely out of the question and not an option.


I just saw a picture of the "backside," and it looks like they cut an airpod off the stalk and stuck that cap on the top. So no isolation *and *ugly. Oh, and expensive as heck ($249). 

_Everyone else: _"We want to make products people will buy."
_Microsoft: _"Hold my beer."


----------



## d3myz

mattedialdoc said:


> Yeah well I wouldn’t say the T5 are muddy at all. But we all have different ears.


I agree with you. But in comparison to the Tevi and a TWS like the Tranya T3 or especially the Bomaker Sifi, the T5 does not sparkle as much. For me it also depends on what i'm listening to. Electronic music always has the best high and low end if it's recorded and produced well. If you want to compare Listen to this track. In the intermissions of the song, you can really hear the difference in the mids and highs in the Tevi. They are really crisp and almost too sharp, while the low end is a little thumpy in the sub bass, on my Tevi's they almost sound empty compared to the T5. I'd be interested to hear your take. This is another good song I test with. Listen for the Snare drum.


----------



## d3myz

cwill said:


> Same here with the tinnitus from drumming . Ugh.


How would you say it effects your hearing in regards to taste in sound signature? What kind of Sig. do you like best?


----------



## howdy

hifi80sman said:


> Saw it.  Bought it.
> 
> I had these a while back when I was a TWS beginner and I don't think I gave them a fair shot.  I was into more over-ear wireless stuff at the time and the battery didn't wow me at 2.5 to 3 hours.  However, now, I frequently switch from one TWS to another throughout the course of a day just for fun/variety, so battery is not THAT important for me in my current addiction phase.
> 
> Also, haven't been too impressed with the WF-1000XM3 reviews, specifically the call quality (doesn't sound good at all) and the lack of volume control for $229.  If they were $179, I could take more omissions, but given many will use this for business, calls should have been a high priority for them.  That's what keeps me from Audio-Technica's wireless stuff, as they have some of the worst integrated headphone/earbud mics in the history of mankind.


I have not really asked nor have i had really any feed back when I have been on the phone while wearing the XM3 but they have "worked" for me. As for Sound, yes I have read mixed reviews about the XM3 but I as you probably know, am a big fan of these. When I use them i have the ANC all the time and the DSEE and on the "clear" setting and they sound amazing! I should mention that also use the Spin fits on these (and everything else I have, except the Senns).
You should buy them, give a honest 29 day trial and see what you think.

 I will absolutely be buying the elusive MW07+ when ever it is released. I hope they fit, and Ill be as happy as a pig in mud!!!!


----------



## vstolpner

Has anyone tried the TAGRY W1?
Feels really premium for the price and they have a pretty neutral sound signature with ever so slightly boosted bass. Really impressed with them.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07X2R82RC


----------



## cwill

d3myz said:


> How would you say it effects your hearing in regards to taste in sound signature? What kind of Sig. do you like best?


I don't think so. I do prefer brighter sound I'd say.


----------



## jasaero (Oct 2, 2019)

mikp said:


> Almost a year since I got the mavins with apt-x. In one year no clues to apt-x hd, but qcc3020 has come to low price tws so that's progress.
> 
> Still no buds I find attractive to replace the 65t for hiking
> -ambient feature with music
> ...



It's interesting how this list is difficult cause of the Ambient and volume feature pair!  Wonder if there is some technical reason those might conflict?  I can't think of any.  But the Shanling MTW100 get you a lot of this.  Unless you also need Apt-X.

Anyone try these?  They have most of these things also.
https://www.amazon.com/Jabees-Situational-Awareness-Headphones-Microphone/dp/B07JN2BF5H/ref=sr_1_7?crid=2JFJEF7L12SUF&keywords=true+wireless+earbuds+with+ambient+sound&qid=1570051472&sprefix=earbuds+true+wireless+ambi,aps,230&sr=8-7

EDIT:  Just noticed the video claims they have hold for volume even though none of the write-up seems too.  So they may have all the suggested features....haha.  What is the -multipoint feature being requested?


----------



## Luchyres

vstolpner said:


> Has anyone tried the TAGRY W1?
> Feels really premium for the price and they have a pretty neutral sound signature with ever so slightly boosted bass. Really impressed with them.
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07X2R82RC




That case certainly looks nice.... is it metal? I bet @hifi80sman would be willing to give them a try....


----------



## Slater

So I got the SSK BT-03 today. I see why you guys like the Anbes 359 so much.

The shell is comfortable, and the sound is pretty good. There is a faint Bluetooth ‘white noise’ when music is paused, but I’m used to that because a lot of Bluetooth gear has that noise.

I’m still tip rolling, but so far I like the Sony MH755 tips. I already know that I’m going to have to trim the charge case to fit larger tips, just like I did with the QCY QS1.

I’m not crazy about the SSK color, but I’m aware of the difficulty in getting real Anbes 359 (or at least genuine rebrands instead of Anbes-looking UFO clones that don’t sound the same). So I went ahead and got the SSK to see what the Anbes 359 hype was about before they were gone forever.


----------



## cwill

Slater said:


> So I got the SSK BT-03 today. I see why you guys like the Anbes 359 so much.
> 
> The shell is comfortable, and the sound is pretty good. There is a faint Bluetooth ‘white noise’ when music is paused, but I’m used to that because a lot of Bluetooth gear has that noise.
> 
> ...


I've tried a LOT of TWS and these are by far my favorite sound so far. I have the Kissral R18.


----------



## mattedialdoc

d3myz said:


> I agree with you. But in comparison to the Tevi and a TWS like the Tranya T3 or especially the Bomaker Sifi, the T5 does not sparkle as much. For me it also depends on what i'm listening to. Electronic music always has the best high and low end if it's recorded and produced well. If you want to compare Listen to this track. In the intermissions of the song, you can really hear the difference in the mids and highs in the Tevi. They are really crisp and almost too sharp, while the low end is a little thumpy in the sub bass, on my Tevi's they almost sound empty compared to the T5. I'd be interested to hear your take. This is another good song I test with. Listen for the Snare drum.


 
That makes sense. I also have the Bomaker Sifi, which I ended up keeping and think is great too. Especially for $30.
I’m keeping the T5 and returning the Tevi. I don’t have the skill set to really explain, but after listening more the T5 just sounds overall better than the Tevi.


----------



## vstolpner

Luchyres said:


> That case certainly looks nice.... is it metal? I bet @hifi80sman would be willing to give them a try....



Yeah it is metal. I actually really it!
But you need a different set of eartips as the ones on the box are terrible


----------



## chinmie

mattedialdoc said:


> Wait, maybe not.
> As noted above my impressions are not dissimilar to what you are saying:
> T5 have much more bass and more volume.
> TEVI have very little bass and less volume.
> Similar highs and mids on both TEVI and T5. Again that is to my very uneducated ear.



May i trouble you to do an experiment: can you match their sound signature, either by raising or lowering bass on one of them? So to confirm that their highs and mids are indeed similar



d3myz said:


> We've been over this, @hifi80sman  I just like stuff that doesn't suck. But you are correct, my preferred signature is a bit brighter than the Stylish and the F16's. Which is odd because I have some pretty decent tinnitus from years of drumming and touring etc.





cwill said:


> Same here with the tinnitus from drumming . Ugh.



And i got slight tinnitus from years of standing next to drummers..and loud guitar amps.. now i got sensitive ears to loud noise and always bring an earplug, or at least an IEM, just to block noise if necessary


----------



## mattedialdoc

chinmie said:


> May i trouble you to do an experiment: can you match their sound signature, either by raising or lowering bass on one of them? So to confirm that their highs and mids are indeed similar. QUOTE]
> 
> How would I accomplish this feat?


----------



## jasaero (Oct 2, 2019)

mattedialdoc said:


> How would I accomplish this feat?



Think he is suggesting you use EQ app or feature of some sorts to try and get the same response or close and see if they then sound basically the same.  To see if it's just different tuning or if there is enough difference it's something beyond just tuning.  This is a complication of these BT devices, the tuning can be totally a software thing rather than require hardware changes as is the case with wired stuff to get different response.  So basically identical hardware can just have a firmware update and essentially be marketed as totally unique product even if it's not.


----------



## mattedialdoc

jasaero said:


> Think he is suggesting you use EQ app or feature of some sorts to try and get the same response or close and see if they then sound basically the same.  To see if it's just different tuning or if there is enough difference it's something beyond just tuning.  This is a complication of these BT devices, the tuning can be totally a software thing rather than require hardware changes as is the case with wired stuff to get different response.  So basically identical hardware can just have a firmware update and essentially be marketed as totally unique product even if it's not.



Gotcha. Ya I’m incapable of doing that request. Maybe someone more knowledgeable can do that test, because the TEVI seems to be a tweaked MPOW T5 with a fabric covered case.


----------



## karloil

AtariPrime said:


> And suddenly, the solution made sense as if it was always there and he hated himself for not realizing it.  Genius.  I have some comply foam tips (that I hate), much prefer my silicone Spinfits.  At the gym though I often end up having to apply moisture to my Spinfits to get a good seal.  Sony has a proprietary design they sell (and ship with some models) that has silicone on the outside and foam inside to give them structure.  They are some of my favorites but only available for tips consistent with sony sizing.  Your solution above has given me an answer as to what to do with my comply tips. Thx.



although not created for TWS units, you can try this - https://symbioeartips.com/

The challenge is if they would fit in the case. I have a bunch of them and test fit them with the units I have.


----------



## Iron-Buddha

d3myz said:


> I think you commented on the the wrong post, friend  That question was for @Iron-Buddha.



didn’t see this post.   Spent half the day trying to get the Tevi to work in windows 10 and it’s not going well.   Basically gave up.   I don't have the T5 to compare.   Was super hyped about the Tevi....losing hype fast...


----------



## Caipirina

Slater said:


> Microsoft makes a lot of bonehead decisions.





AtariPrime said:


> Microsoft Surface Earbuds.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




But will they work with my Zune???


----------



## FYLegend

jasaero said:


> It's interesting how this list is difficult cause of the Ambient and volume feature pair!  Wonder if there is some technical reason those might conflict?  I can't think of any.  But the Shanling MTW100 get you a lot of this.  Unless you also need Apt-X.
> 
> Anyone try these?  They have most of these things also.
> https://www.amazon.com/Jabees-Situational-Awareness-Headphones-Microphone/dp/B07JN2BF5H/ref=sr_1_7?crid=2JFJEF7L12SUF&keywords=true+wireless+earbuds+with+ambient+sound&qid=1570051472&sprefix=earbuds+true+wireless+ambi,aps,230&sr=8-7
> ...


They don't have multipoint or AptX, unfortunately. I have the newer version, the Firefly Pro, which only really differs in longer battery and a Qi-charging case. They are very midbass-heavy with recessed lower mids, so not ideal for critical listening. For a "fun" sound they pack quite a punch and still have good treble detail. The ambient sound, while fairly usable is also glitchy (on my unit at least, volume increases after ending a call until reset, interference from direct sunlight). Call quality is also disappointing - forget about calling while commuting. Volume control is clunky, because the hold overlaps with play/pause if you hold too short - I always have to hold for 2 volume notches to avoid the music from pausing. I really enjoy them as my current daily driver, and they pack a lot of features for 80$. In terms of quality and execution you get what you pay for though. They recently released the Firefly.2 which is IPX7 with longer battery and better call and sound quality but I'm not so sure I will purchase them...

Now if someone can do Qi-charging, USB-C, AptX and Ambient Sound for a reasonable price. Can't see why it can't be done. Libratone Track Air+ has these but is an upper-tier product...


----------



## Blueshound24 (Oct 2, 2019)

.


----------



## jasaero (Oct 2, 2019)

FYLegend said:


> They don't have multipoint or AptX, unfortunately. I have the newer version, the Firefly Pro, which only really differs in longer battery and a Qi-charging case. They are very midbass-heavy with recessed lower mids, so not ideal for critical listening. For a "fun" sound they pack quite a punch and still have good treble detail. The ambient sound, while fairly usable is also glitchy (on my unit at least, volume increases after ending a call until reset, interference from direct sunlight). Call quality is also disappointing - forget about calling while commuting. Volume control is clunky, because the hold overlaps with play/pause if you hold too short - I always have to hold for 2 volume notches to avoid the music from pausing. I really enjoy them as my current daily driver, and they pack a lot of features for 80$. In terms of quality and execution you get what you pay for though. They recently released the Firefly.2 which is IPX7 with longer battery and better call and sound quality but I'm not so sure I will purchase them...
> 
> Now if someone can do Qi-charging, USB-C, AptX and Ambient Sound for a reasonable price. Can't see why it can't be done. Libratone Track Air+ has these but is an upper-tier product...



Cool, thanks for the insights.  Had no clue about these as an option.  Sorta sounds like the Shanling might be better options.  Kinda interesting how the ambient feature is only showing up on stuff without apt-x.  Wonder if that is some realtek or other chipset getting used that makes that feature easier to add, but since not a qualcom one the Apt-X is more difficult?  Not to sure I am highly concerned about AptX if they work well anyhow.  Sorta see AptX as more of a certification than something that makes them any better.  You know you will have some decent sound and capability if you have that on both ends, but suspect stuff can be pretty legit and not make use of it.  Just little less need to track down good first hand info on some of the things aptX helps if it's there.

BTW, what is multipoint? EDIT: Nevermind figured it out.  Not sure I really need that feature either.  Usually only need them dealing with one device at a time.


----------



## chinmie

Blueshound24 said:


> So sorry, Rant here.
> 
> I am tired of hearing: what size is the case, does the case fit in your pocket, what shape is the case, what color is it, if in a room of masturbating elephants can you pick out call quality? how is the call quality, does it have ambient mode, can you wear it in the shower, does it work with only one earphone, is the case metal, is the sound "pretty good", does it have ambiance mode, does it have an App, does it have blinking LEDs. does it have ANC-really?-it's a IEM with natural built in ANC, again-how is the call quality... Ad nauseum. Did I ask how is the call quality? It's getting kinda close to a Cnet review here.
> 
> ...



it's okay to rant, it's healthier than bottling that emotion up inside 

yes, this is Headfi, and i think most in this thread still think SQ is paramount. 

but this is also Headfi... and most people here have buckload of gears, more than any average person in society need in their lifetime 

so when we browse for TWS, we fully acknowledge that SQ expectations would be compromised, and also most here might just buying TWS for non critical listening everyday activity.. so questions about case size, battery life, call quality, etc are really a valid point.

like i said, if SQ is more important, might as well buy BT20S or the TM2 and just use a regular IEM. 

even true TWS like the M&D MW07 that has great reviews regarding SQ still fails because of the other factor like battery life. 

all in all, we all here are looking for that happy medium, that's why i personally think this thread is a lot of fun


----------



## jasaero

Blueshound24 said:


> So sorry, Rant here.
> 
> Tired of hearing: what size is the case, does the case fit in your pocket, what shape is the case, what color is it, if in a room of masturbating elephants can you pick out call quality? how is the call quality, does it have ambient mode, can you wear it in the shower, does it work with only one earphone, is the case metal, is the sound "pretty good", does it have ambiance mode, does it have an App, does it have blinking LEDs. does it have ANC-really?-it's a IEM with natural built in ANC, again-how is the call quality... Ad nauseum. Did I ask how is the call quality? It's getting kinda close to a Cnet review here. Did I ask how is the call quality?
> 
> ...



I'm good with this rant.  I am mostly here to learn about sound quality also.  It's just these silly things have all this other stuff they CAN do.  So there is this odd quest to find one that has all the features and sounds good.  So the whole thing starts with figuring out what the features are. I wouldn't even care about call quality either, but it is annoying when you do take a call and there are complaints.  yet they all CAN take a call or attempt too.  Haha.


----------



## clerkpalmer

For me, the ultimate goal is hoping that the tech develops to the point where wired and wireless are equal in terms of sq.  Eventually it will happen and I hope to be here when it does.


----------



## Blueshound24 (Oct 2, 2019)

Thanks for accepting my rant. And I guess my deleting it doesn't make it go away, because anything online will get reposted.

I have to realize that what I care about may not make sense to somebody else and vice versa.


----------



## jasaero

Blueshound24 said:


> Thanks for accepting my rant. And I guess my deleting it doesn't make it go away, because anything online will get reposted.



We had all quoted you already anyhow!  haha.  I think your frustration is as much related to myriad of products getting vetted here as it is with some of the discussion that can seem to be the focus when i don't think it really is...it's just trying to get each product into it's initial box so we can then rank each box on audio quality of the option in that feature set box.


----------



## Caipirina

hifi80sman said:


> -  Microsoft Surface Earbuds (You'll literally look like you're from a 70s space movie.)



That last bit makes them actually sound cool again  

oh, anyone remember the Microsoft Band Fitness Tracker? On paper that thing also looked actually cool ... liked it better (at least the idea) than Apple Watch back then


----------



## Caipirina (Oct 2, 2019)

hifi80sman said:


> Saw it.  Bought it.
> 
> I had these a while back when I was a TWS beginner and I don't think I gave them a fair shot.  I was into more over-ear wireless stuff at the time and the battery didn't wow me at 2.5 to 3 hours.  However, now, I frequently switch from one TWS to another throughout the course of a day just for fun/variety, so battery is not THAT important for me in my current addiction phase.
> 
> Also, haven't been too impressed with the WF-1000XM3 reviews, specifically the call quality (doesn't sound good at all) and the lack of volume control for $229.  If they were $179, I could take more omissions, but given many will use this for business, calls should have been a high priority for them.  That's what keeps me from Audio-Technica's wireless stuff, as they have some of the worst integrated headphone/earbud mics in the history of mankind.



On this occasion I always like to rub this in ... the only reason why I own them must have been some Amazon Warehouse SNAFU:



They were basically new in box, maybe once opened  

(On this occasion also giving them some listening time love again .. and really happy that after 2 weeks of not having entered rotation the battery level is still 'medium'. And they still sound pretty awesome, though that ANC is a bit of a joke, but hey .. ambient mode ... and sticky-outy ... and really finicky to put back in the case and make sure they are charging   )


----------



## Luchyres (Oct 3, 2019)

Blueshound24 said:


> Thanks for accepting my rant. And I guess my deleting it doesn't make it go away, because anything online will get reposted.
> 
> I have to realize that what I care about may not make sense to somebody else and vice versa.



I can definitely understand some of the frustration - and you killed me with the "Do I sound like cnet yet?"  I do feel that this thread is very unique in my own Head-fi experience - it does talk way less about sound quality and characteristic than any other one I've read.

I didn't even notice that it had happened until you called it out - but I've been reading this thread since pretty early on - the reason your comment had me laughing is that you're pretty spot on - and I'm one of the people who may care the MOST about call quality. (Having a call interrupt a listening session or while I'm working and have the other person repeatedly ask me "WHAT" and yell because they think I can't hear them is, I find, terribly annoying)

The only way I will make the SQ tradeoff that I feel even the best TWS have asked me to make means they better excel in the convenience factor (calls). I suspect a bunch of other people feel the same and each have their own short list of must-have to be worth it. (As some of you have already suggested)

But, that being said, I won't even consider it seems there's a pretty good consensus (or one of the threads main degenerates strongly endorses) that it has top-tier sound (and my preferred sound signature) as far as a TWS..... and good call quality


----------



## hifi80sman

Luchyres said:


> That case certainly looks nice.... is it metal? I bet @hifi80sman would be willing to give them a try....


Should my feelings be hurt that you didn't read this post?  

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/goi...re-we-there-yet.861024/page-694#post-15114465


----------



## Luchyres (Oct 3, 2019)

hifi80sman said:


> Should my feelings be hurt that you didn't read this post?
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/goi...re-we-there-yet.861024/page-694#post-15114465



Yes... yes. :'(

Edit: In fact, it's even worse - that was the post that I vaguely remembered that made me think you would like it because of the metal case lol so. I read it... just didn't do my research


----------



## d3myz

chinmie said:


> May i trouble you to do an experiment: can you match their sound signature, either by raising or lowering bass on one of them? So to confirm that their highs and mids are indeed similar
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I use TWS' to block noise whenever i'm around my twin 3 year olds, they love to scream and I my ears cant' handle it. I used to have a sweet pair of musicians plugs with interchangeable filters, paid like $200 for them and lost them at an event. what I wouldn't give to find some cheaper alternatives.


----------



## d3myz

Iron-Buddha said:


> didn’t see this post.   Spent half the day trying to get the Tevi to work in windows 10 and it’s not going well.   Basically gave up.   I don't have the T5 to compare.   Was super hyped about the Tevi....losing hype fast...


Preach, brother. I know Win 10 pretty well maybe I can assist. what's the issue? Feel free to PM me, I've spent half of my adult life supporting windows.


----------



## mikp

FYLegend said:


> They don't have multipoint or AptX, unfortunately. I have the newer version, the Firefly Pro, which only really differs in longer battery and a Qi-charging case. They are very midbass-heavy with recessed lower mids, so not ideal for critical listening. For a "fun" sound they pack quite a punch and still have good treble detail. The ambient sound, while fairly usable is also glitchy (on my unit at least, volume increases after ending a call until reset, interference from direct sunlight). Call quality is also disappointing - forget about calling while commuting. Volume control is clunky, because the hold overlaps with play/pause if you hold too short - I always have to hold for 2 volume notches to avoid the music from pausing. I really enjoy them as my current daily driver, and they pack a lot of features for 80$. In terms of quality and execution you get what you pay for though. They recently released the Firefly.2 which is IPX7 with longer battery and better call and sound quality but I'm not so sure I will purchase them...
> 
> Now if someone can do Qi-charging, USB-C, AptX and Ambient Sound for a reasonable price. Can't see why it can't be done. Libratone Track Air+ has these but is an upper-tier product...



There always seems to be a "missing" feature on the tws released, either no volume control or ambient etc.

Ambient with music is a must for me to replace the 65t. Did use the mavins or the latest kz aptx-hd + zs10 pro for some hikes, but can be dangerous when walking with dogs. People on bikes and rollerskis etc take no consideration when passing in full speed.

The libratone has restricted controls, the latest sony no volume control and ipx.  With multipoint I can be connected to both dap (fiio m6 or hiby r3) and the unihertz atom phone.


----------



## d3myz

chinmie said:


> May i trouble you to do an experiment: can you match their sound signature, either by raising or lowering bass on one of them? So to confirm that their highs and mids are indeed similar
> In the famous words of Double Dare " I'll take the Physical Challenge!" I'll test them in spotify and let you know what I find. Any suggestions? Just connect them both and boost the bass in the Tevi and nerf the highs and mids until they sound similar? and Vice versa for the T5?


----------



## vstolpner (Oct 3, 2019)

hifi80sman said:


> Should my feelings be hurt that you didn't read this post?
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/goi...re-we-there-yet.861024/page-694#post-15114465



Oh man, I should've checked that before posting... Had a weird getting that TAGRY sounded familiar :-/

Interestingly enough I suspect they changed the tuning. I wouldn't call them bright compared to the T5's, but they're not what I would call a warm sound signature. Maybe my ears are just that amateur, or maybe it's my low expectations of them, but I was really impressed with the sound given the price point and the overall package.

That said, totally agree with you re. the eartips - I'm using the O5 eartips on mine to get a decent seal.

I'm debating to do a "proper" review of these.. did one for the Wavefun Xpods 3 and no one was interested that. Think it's worth it for these?

Edit: just realised I'm passed 500 posts... And I haven't been on here 6 months... Hmm... Life choices... Lol


----------



## assassin10000

d3myz said:


> I use TWS' to block noise whenever i'm around my twin 3 year olds, they love to scream and I my ears cant' handle it. I used to have a sweet pair of musicians plugs with interchangeable filters, paid like $200 for them and lost them at an event. what I wouldn't give to find some cheaper alternatives.



Check out 'earasers' earplugs they're made by the same people as the inearz iems. Super comfy musicians plugs, and they have a stronger pair also available.


On topic: Still haven't found anything that beats the bt20/bt20s and mmcx earbuds for non isolating, batt life and good sq.


----------



## d3myz

Blueshound24 said:


> Thanks for accepting my rant. And I guess my deleting it doesn't make it go away, because anything online will get reposted.
> 
> I have to realize that what I care about may not make sense to somebody else and vice versa.


I agree. I liked the rant. I know I personally talk about features on TWS' a lot, but SQ is paramount in my mind, then battery life to prolong my auditory bliss  I hadn't picked up an IEM in quite some time and when I was comparing the TEVI to the TIN T2 I was just blow away by howmuch better the T2 was. I need to stop screwing around and get a BT20s.  granted i'm too cheap to spend more than $100-130 on a pair of TWS' so i may never know what I'm missing, but yea, man. Sound Quality is paramount. I listen to music to make the hair stand up on my arms and to make me cry like a baby. Only a few devices have helped me get there so the search for the TWS audiogasm continues.


----------



## d3myz

vstolpner said:


> Oh man, I should've checked that before posting... Had a weird getting that TAGRY sounded familiar :-/
> 
> Interestingly enough I suspect they changed the tuning. I wouldn't call them bright compared to the T5's, but they're not what I would call a warm sound signature. Maybe my ears are just that amateur, or maybe it's my low expectations of them, but I was really impressed with the sound given the price point and the overall package.
> 
> ...


Congrats! i've been on here for 8 years and this is the first year i've been really active, so I was really excited about my first 100. now i'm slowly approaching 500, kind of a cool feeling.


----------



## d3myz

assassin10000 said:


> Check out 'earasers' earplugs they're made by the same people as the inearz iems. Super comfy musicians plugs, and they have a stronger pair also available.
> 
> 
> On topic: Still haven't found anything that beats the bt20/bt20s and mmcx earbuds for non isolating, batt life and good sq.


Oh cool, those look pretty sweet, I'll have to give them a go. Tool is coming to my town in 2 weeks and I need something that works well.


----------



## vstolpner

d3myz said:


> I agree. I liked the rant. I know I personally talk about features on TWS' a lot, but SQ is paramount in my mind, then battery life to prolong my auditory bliss  I hadn't picked up an IEM in quite some time and when I was comparing the TEVI to the TIN T2 I was just blow away by howmuch better the T2 was. I need to stop screwing around and get a BT20s.  granted i'm too cheap to spend more than $100-130 on a pair of TWS' so i may never know what I'm missing, but yea, man. Sound Quality is paramount. I listen to music to make the hair stand up on my arms and to make me cry like a baby. Only a few devices have helped me get there so the search for the TWS audiogasm continues.




So what's your #1 audio kit for getting your hair to stand on end? (TWS or not)


----------



## vstolpner

Blueshound24 said:


> Thanks for accepting my rant. And I guess my deleting it doesn't make it go away, because anything online will get reposted.
> 
> I have to realize that what I care about may not make sense to somebody else and vice versa.


This is a community. All opinions welcome. Rants included


----------



## hifi80sman

vstolpner said:


> Oh man, I should've checked that before posting... Had a weird getting that TAGRY sounded familiar :-/
> 
> Interestingly enough I suspect they changed the tuning. I wouldn't call them bright compared to the T5's, but they're not what I would call a warm sound signature. Maybe my ears are just that amateur, or maybe it's my low expectations of them, but I was really impressed with the sound given the price point and the overall package.
> 
> ...


They must have changed the tuning.  They are unabashedly warm and bass heavy, yet fun to listen to.  I have to EQ them a little, but I like them and they are a good knock around pair for the gym or any noisy environment where you may need that additional bass thump.  As a matter of fact, I used them just today doing some yard work.


----------



## musicinmymind

Sony wh-1000xm3 sounds differently connected to different phone, this seems Weird to me. I got them two weeks back and paired with Samsung A70 using LDAC, the bass was boomy with V shape, EQing made it sound like muffled. Almost gave up on it, but did try with LGV20 (LDAC) and wow sound changed from V shaped to almost natural, no boomy bass anymore.

I am surprised, how can SQ gets impacted when both phones running on LDAC?


----------



## hifi80sman

musicinmymind said:


> Sony wh-1000xm3 sounds differently connected to different phone, this seems Weird to me. I got them two weeks back and paired with Samsung A70 using LDAC, the bass was boomy with V shape, EQing made it sound like muffled. Almost gave up on it, but did try with LGV20 (LDAC) and wow sound changed from V shaped to almost natural, no boomy bass anymore.
> 
> I am surprised, how can SQ gets impacted when both phones running on LDAC?


Hey brother, I think you’re in the wrong thread.  This is the “Fully Wireless IEM” thread.


----------



## musicinmymind

hifi80sman said:


> Hey brother, I think you’re in the wrong thread.  This is the “Fully Wireless IEM” thread.



Thx... post in right thread. Pls ignore


----------



## supertx2

VTman said:


> Was playing around the BT20S with few MMCX IEMs this morning. In terms of fitting, the BGVP DMG (last photo) works best for me.
> 
> ...
> edited: changed the last photo



How is the hissing with the BGVP DMG?


----------



## Caipirina

Another week and another latecomer from AliX arrives ... this time one of those 'cheapo' semi open earbud style ones that had caught my eye a while ago ... they are apparently so generic, the seller from whom I ordered already moved on and is using the listing for a different model ...  but here is one other seller, just in case anyone want to do a picture search and check for themselves.

Without further ado, some pics, imagine the shock moment when I thought one bud was missing  (it had plopped through the foam hole) 


  
  

The case is nice and shiny metal and NO, it does NOT work at all as a phone stand for video watching ... whoever came up with that as a sales point? Phone too heavy  

 

Anyways, they actually function and sound perfectly fine, with some harshness in the mids which I tried to tame with some earbud socks, but with this model I cannot squeeze them back into the case ... so, naked listening it is .. Overall, they are 'nice', at 18$ a nice addition to a hoarder's pile ... I mean thoughtfully curated collection. Nothing really worth chasing down, but also not a waste of money. Oh, and LCD display and it can serve as a battery pack if you remember to bring this pluggy dongle thing


----------



## webvan

AtariPrime said:


> And suddenly, the solution made sense as if it was always there and he hated himself for not realizing it.  Genius.  I have some comply foam tips (that I hate), much prefer my silicone Spinfits.  At the gym though I often end up having to apply moisture to my Spinfits to get a good seal.  Sony has a proprietary design they sell (and ship with some models) that has silicone on the outside and foam inside to give them structure.  They are some of my favorites but only available for tips consistent with sony sizing.  Your solution above has given me an answer as to what to do with my comply tips. Thx.


Glad I could help, I was just sharing a tip I read a bout here though 


Caipirina said:


> Another week and another latecomer from AliX arrives ... this time one of those 'cheapo' semi open earbud style ones that had caught my eye a while ago ... they are apparently so generic, the seller from whom I ordered already moved on and is using the listing for a different model ...  but here is one other seller, just in case anyone want to do a picture search and check for themselves.
> 
> Without further ado, some pics, imagine the shock moment when I thought one bud was missing  (it had plopped through the foam hole)
> 
> ...



Thanks for the report, so how would you compare them to the X12, especially for running ? It seems they might sound more like the T8  The fact that you can't fit them with the foam back in the case pretty much rules them out anyway. I really need to pick up an extra pair of X12s as I'd be pretty upset if I lost or damaged them !


----------



## webvan

d3myz said:


> Oh cool, those look pretty sweet, I'll have to give them a go. Tool is coming to my town in 2 weeks and I need something that works well.


Earasers look interesting but they're a lot more expensive than the Pacato I've been using and that are very comfy, inconspicuous and do a great job https://www.amazon.com/Planet-Waves-Pacato-Hearing-Protection/dp/B007X3DEM8/ - wonder if anyone's compared them.


----------



## Caipirina

webvan said:


> Thanks for the report, so how would you compare them to the X12, especially for running ? It seems they might sound more like the T8  The fact that you can't fit them with the foam back in the case pretty much rules them out anyway. I really need to pick up an extra pair of X12s as I'd be pretty upset if I lost or damaged them !



Still not feeling super comfortable trying running with those earbud style ones, even with foams ... might test on the T8, but they are no ipx anything, those new ones are, but then again, I have enough other stuff that just sits much nicer ... 

As for sound, I was listening to the T8 again some, this time with 'mufflers' .. and they are actually not that bad  so, those A6 as they identify when connecting, in their shiny metal box and allegedly ipx5 sound about the same, bit harsher in the mids (unmuffled), but quite some detail in the highs ... bass is enough for joy and overall the nice open feel / soundstage that comes with the earbud style is always a plus


----------



## Bartig

Now this is a set I have high expectations for.


----------



## Dcell7

Bartig said:


> Now this is a set I have high expectations for.


. You got them from Aliexpress ?


----------



## Grayson73

Does anyone have the Apple Airpods?  How are those compared to the sub $50 TWS that have been discussed here?


----------



## bedlamite

Shanling makes quality gear. Might just pull the trigger on a pair of the balanced armatures instead of waiting for a potential 11.11 sale.


----------



## vstolpner

Bartig said:


> Now this is a set I have high expectations for.



I've been really enjoying mine. Can't wait to hear your thoughts!

Curious how you find the ambient mode on these compares to others...


----------



## d3myz

vstolpner said:


> So what's your #1 audio kit for getting your hair to stand on end? (TWS or not)


 Tough Answer, but
I was fooling around with the 1more Stylish yesterday after previously complaining to @hifi80sman how muddy it was and crying because I got it for free. I used some diff. tips so a actually got a good seal for the first time. So I figured what the hell and started bumping the mids and highs in the Spotify EQ a bit. I cranked it up about 75-85% and WHOA!  Amazing!  So i'm a fan of those now.  w/o EQ, The Anbes 359's are def. my #1 closely followed by the T5. As far as non TWS' I only have 5, I love my ibasso IT01's but recently i'm finding them really bright, I need to find some different tips and of course I love the Tin Audio T2. I originally got them for audiobooks, but the fit is super finicky, but when I get a good seal they are fantastic.


----------



## Bhelpoori (Oct 3, 2019)

chinmie said:


> it's okay to rant, it's healthier than bottling that emotion up inside
> 
> yes, this is Headfi, and i think most in this thread still think SQ is paramount.
> 
> ...


@Blueshound24 I hold my hand up and plead guilty to the call quality requests.

I also plead guilty to wanting both music and voice (whether Pods or WebEx) to sound good too. I think I stated why in a previous message but it's because of the different use I have for TWS than wired.

I find your rant to be completely reasonable as I wouldn't care whether voice sounded good on my wired setup and I can assure you that my wired headphones don't have a microphone... I wouldn't even try to do critical listening on my Anbes...

However, I agree with @chinmie, given the current compromises of TWS in this generation, we're looking for the best sound quality and the package, because we already know the SQ won't match our wired setup just now.

I also think that if a vendor says a headphone has a feature and TWS seem to have lots of "features," then we should see whether they work or not...


----------



## webvan

Caipirina said:


> Still not feeling super comfortable trying running with those earbud style ones, even with foams ... might test on the T8, but they are no ipx anything, those new ones are, but then again, I have enough other stuff that just sits much nicer ...
> 
> As for sound, I was listening to the T8 again some, this time with 'mufflers' .. and they are actually not that bad  so, those A6 as they identify when connecting, in their shiny metal box and allegedly ipx5 sound about the same, bit harsher in the mids (unmuffled), but quite some detail in the highs ... bass is enough for joy and overall the nice open feel / soundstage that comes with the earbud style is always a plus


I find that the X12 are the best for running, zero thumping, you stay aware, nice warm sound, sweat doesn't stay stuck in the ear canal, hard to beat ! The lack of IP rating has not been a problem for me in 9+ months. I gave the T8 another try the other day at my desk but there were some annoying and frequent "interferences". Not worth the trouble


----------



## Caipirina (Oct 3, 2019)

webvan said:


> I find that the X12 are the best for running, zero thumping, you stay aware, nice warm sound, sweat doesn't stay stuck in the ear canal, hard to beat ! The lack of IP rating has not been a problem for me in 9+ months. I gave the T8 another try the other day at my desk but there were some annoying and frequent "interferences". Not worth the trouble



Guess I will finally give it a try tomorrow, as training schedule dictates a shorter 5-6K run ...
 I wonder how much of a difference there is between my Lezii X12, which I think are still BT4.2 and the 'real' Sabbath X12 Pro ... any idea? Oh, and there's now the ultra ... i have to admit that the x12 pro / ultra / e12 (and a bit mifo o5 pro / standard) keep confusing me ...


----------



## gibletzor

Drop has the Sabbat X12 Ultra for $40.  Looks like $60 on AE.  Not sure if it's my cup of tea but I see the older X12s mentioned around here a lot.


----------



## Caipirina

gibletzor said:


> Drop has the Sabbat X12 Ultra for $40.  Looks like $60 on AE.  Not sure if it's my cup of tea but I see the older X12s mentioned around here a lot.


And much nicer colors than those camouflage thingies on AliX (I see one seller offering the ultra at 43$ ... but they are only 93% rated ...)


----------



## jasaero

Anyone here have any clue if/when the Libratone Track Air+ will be marketed in the USA finally?


----------



## VTman

supertx2 said:


> How is the hissing with the BGVP DMG?



For DMG (28 Ω), it's quite obvious in quiet environment, especially when the music is paused. It's even worse for more sensitive IEMs like SE846 (9 Ω) and Xelento (16 Ω) when I tried them on.
It's completely gone, at least to my ears, when I switched to Satolex Tumuri (32 Ω).


----------



## milkybrkid

The Mpow T5 are currently £29.99 for anyone in the UK that wants them... https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product...c16-d4b886747c64&pf_rd_r=MC6JC2AK7WAMP0NYRTAF


----------



## Blueshound24 (Oct 3, 2019)

chinmie said:


> it's okay to rant, it's healthier than bottling that emotion up inside
> 
> yes, this is Headfi, and i think most in this thread still think SQ is paramount.
> 
> ...




I'm not going to quote everybody who responded so kindly to my rant, but I appreciate and thank you all for the gracious and understanding posts. Today my rant doesn't seem so important to me, maybe just venting was cathartic for me.

@chinmie, thanks for bringing up the BT20S and TM2. That sounds like a good idea because then I can use my own IEMs which are a known quality to me. I was just looking on Ali Express for them, so how do you pick a good seller there? There is a seller with the most sales at 309 units, maybe they would be the safest choice?

Amazon has them for $55, and on Ali $37, so it is a lot cheaper there. And shipping from either would be ~ 3 weeks, too bad shipping from China takes so long.


----------



## Luchyres (Oct 3, 2019)

d3myz said:


> I use TWS' to block noise whenever i'm around my twin 3 year olds, they love to scream and I my ears cant' handle it. I used to have a sweet pair of musicians plugs with interchangeable filters, paid like $200 for them and lost them at an event. what I wouldn't give to find some cheaper alternatives.



I use these and love them: https://www.earpeace.com/products/earplugs?variant=43678845124








Edit: Sorry guys, I should have sent this as a DM. Adding some TWS relevant stuff: 

Does anyone have a good understanding of what the trade-offs may be for the M&D MW07 "Go" vs Plus? 

Idly curious.


----------



## milkybrkid

Also just seen over at r/headphones that the Sony WF-1000XM3 uses a replaceable coin battery :- http://www.fonow.com/view/235586.html


----------



## Ocelitgol

Blueshound24 said:


> I'm not going to quote everybody who responded so kindly to my rant, but I appreciate and thank you all for the gracious and understanding posts. Today my rant doesn't seem so important to me, maybe just venting was cathartic for me.
> 
> @chinmie, thanks for bringing up the BT20S and TM2. That sounds like a good idea because then I can use my own IEMs which are a known quality to me. I was just looking on Ali Express for them, so how do you pick a good seller there? There is a seller with the most sales at 309 units, maybe they would be the safest choice?



just wanna throw in another vote for the BT20S 

TBH, any chi-fi "kings" right now with BT20S would beat all TWS that I've tried, not to mention high end iem. Although I've only tried the ones made by well-known companies (Jabra, Sony, etc.)


----------



## webvan (Oct 3, 2019)

@Luchyres

I used to have some like these but I prefer the Pacatos as they're pretty much invisible and I sometimes worry that with those in your link someone could bump into you and, hum...unpleasant thoughts.



milkybrkid said:


> The Mpow T5 are currently £29.99 for anyone in the UK that wants them... https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product...c16-d4b886747c64&pf_rd_r=MC6JC2AK7WAMP0NYRTAF



Tempting, I wonder if they would give a "fuller" feel inside the ear than the UFOs that I have a hard time keeping in place. Anyone compared both, is it worth giving the T5s a shot coming from the UFOs ?

@milkybrkid - nice find, if the CP360z I'm expecting tomorrow give me a better fit I might keep the XM3s then !


----------



## Luchyres

webvan said:


> @Luchyres
> 
> I used to have some like these but I prefer the Pacatos as they're pretty much invisible and I sometimes worry that with those in your link someone could bump into you and, hum...unpleasant thoughts.
> 
> ...



Lol, the Pacatos look nice - but I have to ask - what are you suggesting may happen if someone bumps into someone with the Earpeace? :-O - They're all rubbery (other than the sound filter which is miniscule compared to the overall apparatus) - are you concerned about it poking into the ear? Or like.... IDK, I'm stumped (but also nervous now that you've issued this vague warning!  )


----------



## webvan

Well yes, they do stick out a bit and in my experience, well with the ER-20, they put more pressure than the Pacatos, anyway we're a bit OT here


----------



## hifi80sman (Oct 3, 2019)

So, the _*all new*_ WF-1000X...liking them so far.

-  Looks like it uses Qualcomm's CSR8675 just like the WF-SP700N.  Running AAC over iPhone Xs Max.
-  Using some shallower Sony eartips from their wired MDR-XB50AP.  For me, fit is better and bass is a little more defined.  Not by any means night and day, but I do notice a slight difference.
-  I enjoy the default sound more than any of the presets (you can't adjust the EQ sliders, just change the presets).  Solid Sony house sound.
-  Drivers are VERY well matched (I'm a stickler for amplitude and frequency imbalances).
-  Newest iOS doesn't allow the App to update the earbuds.  I had to update them via Android, which took a good 2 hours.
-  Sync NOT GOOD with *YouTube*.
-  Sync IS GREAT with *Amazon*, *Netflix*, and *Hulu*.
-  Stick out of the ear a little, but not quite as bad as the Bose SoundSport Free.  Still very much wearable in public for those of you that are self-conscious.
-  ANC is mild, but does take off about 50% of the lower registers from a nearby fan.  Decent in a car.  I would never recommend to someone looking for serious ANC, however, as I view it as a side benefit if I'm in a spot where I'd appreciate something vs. nothing.  Noise Isolation is about average.
-  Mic for calls works well.  I called myself and left a VM, which sounded better than the mic test samples I've heard for the WF-1000XM3 on YouTube.  Take this with a grain of salt, as I have not directly tested the WF-1000XM3.
-  Calls only out of the left (master) earbud.
-  Ambient mode actually works pretty well and sounds fairly natural.
-  Case is really nice (metal, matte black finish), but Micro USB.
-  At about 40% volume with ANC being toggled on/off, as well as ambient mode, several times, battery is at 50% after 1 hour and 40 mins exactly.  It looks like 3 hours (maybe a few mins more) for my specific use pattern will be possible.
-  Connection is solid after updating.  They flicker in and out when they are first powered on/paired, but then it's solid.  It's as if they are "negotiating" the connection in the beginning.  I have them set to priority on sound quality.

At $69 and in comparison with other TWS' in this price range, I think they are a great deal.

EDIT:  Ended up getting 2 hours 55 minutes.  Also, some breakups when moving around near a microwave with phone in pocket.  Going to see how they perform in the gym with my phone 20-30 feet away.


----------



## Slater

Luchyres said:


> I use these and love them: https://www.earpeace.com/products/earplugs?variant=43678845124
> 
> 
> 
> ...



That’s what I’ve used for years as well.


----------



## The Apostle

Bhelpoori said:


> I just checked the website to see what the position with sidetone and can't see whether the app controls it or even whether the 5100s support it. Does someone who has the 5100 any clue whether it does or is controllable? I'm with you, I either want a little sidetone or none at all. The one thing I did notice reading the specs is that there's no real mute button, which is useful on conf calls so that I don't need to fumble for the phone... used that a lot on the old Backbeat Pro and Bose 700. The only mute on the 5100 appears to be taking it out of the ears...which is nice but not useful.
> 
> OTOH the Amazon buds also look good according to the specs. Lots of microphones. Mute. Customisable EQ and buttons. Noise reduction. Possibly better sound. Can tell exactly what the battery case is charged at. $30 cheaper. Probably about the same battery life (5 hours is with noise reduction, so probably more without). Out end of October, so will wait until then...



For the 6200 it's controlled in the App.  Low, Medium, High.  Also has dedicated mute on the headset.  Would be incredible if they added no sidetone.


----------



## Bartig

Dcell7 said:


> . You got them from Aliexpress ?


Yes.



Grayson73 said:


> Does anyone have the Apple Airpods?  How are those compared to the sub $50 TWS that have been discussed here?


Even the QCY QS2 for 20 dollar crushes the AirPods in sound quality. It can get even better when you pay more. The Mpow T5 is excellent, for example.



vstolpner said:


> I've been really enjoying mine. Can't wait to hear your thoughts!
> 
> Curious how you find the ambient mode on these compares to others...


Ambient mode works surprisingly okay for me. And I like them a lot.

No wait.

I LOVE them.


----------



## hifi80sman

The Apostle said:


> For the 6200 it's controlled in the App.  Low, Medium, High.  Also has dedicated mute on the headset.  Would be incredible if they added no sidetone.


I have the BackBeat Pro 5100, it does have a sidetone (sounds like it's using the right side mic), and I wasn't able to find anywhere in the app to turn it off (I personally like the sidetone).


----------



## ffcruzm (Oct 3, 2019)

I've been reading a ton. A lot of reading but don't do much posting.

So I went ahead and got the Sony WF-1000XM3 and had to return them. The sound was good (not  as good as I was expecting) but I could not get a good seal. Tried all the supplied tips and a few comply tips I had. The complys did the trick but the case would not close (it would after much pushing, which didn't give a lot of comfort). My ears are "regular" sized but the ear canals are wide. I also had the big brothers (WH-1000XM3) before, but hardly used them as they are big and a pain to carry around, so sold them as well.

I travel a lot and while the big WH-1000XM3 were good, their size does not work for me, hence me trying the WF-1000XM3.

I don't think current TW earbuds are for me (yet), so asking for any recommendations for wired IEMs that have the best isolation possible. I can then think of getting a BT receiver for them if the cables become a pain.

Any recommendations on IEMs (with aftermarket tips if needed) with great isolation? These will mostly be used for air travel. Budget up to $1,000 (new or used) but of course, the cheaper, the better. Ideally around the $500 mark but willing to spend more for sound quality and isolation.

Thanks!


----------



## Dcell7

Bartig said:


> Yes.


Dang, i was hoping you got them from a retailer in The Netherlands. Guess i still have to wait till it shows up locally.


----------



## hifi80sman

ffcruzm said:


> I've been reading a ton. A lot of reading but don't do much posting.
> 
> So I went ahead and got the Sony WF-1000XM3 and had to return them. The sound was good (not  as good as I was expecting) but I could not get a good seal. Tried all the supplied tips and a few comply tips I had. The complys did the trick but the case would not close (it would after much pushing, which didn't give a lot of comfort). My ears are "regular" sized but the ear canals are wide. I also had the big brothers (WH-1000XM3) before, but hardly used them as they are big and a pain to carry around, so sold them as well.
> 
> ...


These are pretty good.  ANC too.  Used them on the plane before and they worked well.
https://www.amazon.com/Pioneer-Rayz-Cancellation-Headphones-Earbuds/dp/B07DHXSJLJ/


----------



## Bhelpoori

milkybrkid said:


> The Mpow T5 are currently £29.99 for anyone in the UK that wants them... https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product...c16-d4b886747c64&pf_rd_r=MC6JC2AK7WAMP0NYRTAF


Thank you. At £30 I couldn’t refuse...


----------



## Blueshound24 (Oct 3, 2019)

stormers said:


> just wanna throw in another vote for the BT20S
> 
> TBH, any chi-fi "kings" right now with BT20S would beat all TWS that I've tried, not to mention high end iem. Although I've only tried the ones made by well-known companies (Jabra, Sony, etc.)



So the BT20S must be new improved BT20.
I could get them on Amazon or Ali. Do you know how to pick a good seller there? There is a seller with the most sales at 309 units sold, maybe they would be the safest choice or just go with Amazon USA.


----------



## Grayson73

Bartig said:


> Even the QCY QS2 for 20 dollar crushes the AirPods in sound quality. It can get even better when you pay more. The Mpow T5 is excellent, for example.



Glad to hear that!  I have the Mpow T5, SSK (Anbes 359 clone), and Soundpeats on the way.


----------



## ricthaman

Been following this thread for a while, and received the Audio-Technica ath-cks5tw today. First impressions will follow, but fiest thing to say is that I’ve had to change the tips for better comfort and sound. Using tips that came with the Fiio FH5 and they work brilliantly. 

If you have questions on this set of tws, let me know and I’ll see if I can answer them 

regards


----------



## d3myz (Oct 3, 2019)

chinmie said:


> May i trouble you to do an experiment: can you match their sound signature, either by raising or lowering bass on one of


Ok, I compared both the TEVI and the T5 using the same tips and two different songs. I used the paltry equalizer in Spotify, but I got the T5 to sound similar to the Tevi with this eq setting. I’d have to say the Tevi’s highs still sound a bit cleaner but I was shocked by how much bass i had to take out. honestly without a better eq. It’s hard to tell if the Tevi has better hardware, but they sound pretty damn close to each other so I wouldn’t doubt its a software tweak. Man, if the Tevi had the bass the T5 has and if they backed off the high mids a Touch it may be the perfect tws.


----------



## Iron-Buddha

Going to put this here in case anyone else runs into the same problem with the Tevi or any other TW that is using the same Qualcomm chip.

For windows 10, you have to connect the right earpiece first.  It will automatically disconnect (on a phone, this is when it will somehow auto-pair the left earpiece, but that doesn't happen on PC).   Then pair the left earpiece.   Then disconnect the left earpiece, and reconnect to the right earpiece.

It seems that the left earpiece will register as "Voice" and as a headset, not as a headphone.  This may be different if someone has a laptop using the Qualcomm chip that supports their True Wireless Plus system.   My Razer Blade 15 2018 Intel 9260 chip clearly does not play nice.    The fact that the Tevi doesn't support multiple paired devices, it's a bit of a pain to connect/reconnect, but at least I can get it working consistently.

Connection is relatively stable, not as stable as on a phone.  The Tevi does sound quite good on APTX.     Watching Tom Cruise dance in Tropic Thunder had a substantial low-end.   As mentioned before, the mid-bass may be knocked down a few pegs to aid clarity.   But the sub-bass is there.  On movies, speech is very clear, which is nice considering the Sabbat E12 would muddy things up a bit.


----------



## TK33

ffcruzm said:


> I've been reading a ton. A lot of reading but don't do much posting.
> 
> So I went ahead and got the Sony WF-1000XM3 and had to return them. The sound was good (not  as good as I was expecting) but I could not get a good seal. Tried all the supplied tips and a few comply tips I had. The complys did the trick but the case would not close (it would after much pushing, which didn't give a lot of comfort). My ears are "regular" sized but the ear canals are wide. I also had the big brothers (WH-1000XM3) before, but hardly used them as they are big and a pain to carry around, so sold them as well.
> 
> ...



I am pretty new to true wireless and was using my B&W P5s for air travel due to the compact size (don't really care for ANC).  Since I just got true wireless earbuds, I wanted to take them with me and, a few weeks ago, I took my old SE535s and Senn MTWs to a conference.  I used the MTWs for my time at the airport and the conference (to listen to music and take calls) and the compact size of just carrying around the MTWs and not having cables was really convenient.  For the plane, I got an ES100 to listen to music with my SE535s using LDAC and changed the cable to a short 46" cable to reduce bulk (shorter cable allows me to put the SE535s in the original case while still attached to the ES100).  I also changed the foam tips to the Spinfit CP800s since foam tips are annoying when you have to take them out every time the flight attendant comes by.  I was able to listen to music using bluetooth and also plug into the in-flight entertainment system to watch a movie during the flight.  I get a pretty good seal with the Spinfits and the guy next to me had to tap me on my shoulder a few times when I didn't respond to the flight attendant who was asking me if I wanted to drink.  You could probably do this with any IEM (I would suggest getting MMCX connectors if you want to change the cables).  Having both the wired IEM/ES100 combo and TW was really convenient and didn't add much bulk.  You can do this with any IEM and I am sure there are much better IEMs available now at lower price points.  This thread probably isn't the right place to discuss wired IEMs but I will note that I will be doing this again for my flight next month as well.


----------



## Iron-Buddha

d3myz said:


> Ok, I compared both the TEVI and the T5 using the same tips and two different songs. I used the paltry equalizer in Spotify, but I got the T5 to sound similar to the Tevi with this eq setting. I’d have to say the Tevi’s highs still sound a bit cleaner but I was shocked by how much bass i had to take out. honestly without a better eq. It’s hard to tell if the Tevi has better hardware, but they sound pretty damn close to each other so I wouldn’t doubt its a software tweak. Man, if the Tevi had the bass the T5 has and if they backed off the high mids a Touch it may be the perfect tws.



Does the T5 claim to use graphene drivers?   It may be just a driver swap that is causing the difference?  The rest of it looks suspiciously...exactly the same!  That being said, I'm a sucker for nice things, and the top plate on the Tevi does look nicer.  Not sure if it's $50 nicer.....


----------



## Silentism

karloil said:


> Tried today and immediately purchased one. I arrived quite late at the audio shop, the attendant told me I was the 12th person to purchase today!
> 
> Some of the TWs that I've auditioned before, ranking them from highest to lowest in terms of my prefered SQ
> 
> ...





How would you compare the Tevi to the Nuarl? I'm really happy with the sound from my Nuarls, but I have to use medium domes for the most balanced sound and best quality when I found the small dome tips and small/medium spinfits fit a better. I'd consider buying the Tevi for the possibility of a better fit and similar sound.


----------



## d3myz

Iron-Buddha said:


> Does the T5 claim to use graphene drivers?   It may be just a driver swap that is causing the difference?  The rest of it looks suspiciously...exactly the same!  That being said, I'm a sucker for nice things, and the top plate on the Tevi does look nicer.  Not sure if it's $50 nicer.....


I don't believe it does. After this comparison i'd say hell no, it's not worth it, but I honestly think My Tevi's are duds, I'm sending them back and i'll have my new ones next week. I'll repeat the test.


----------



## ffcruzm

TK33 said:


> I am pretty new to true wireless and was using my B&W P5s for air travel due to the compact size (don't really care for ANC).  Since I just got true wireless earbuds, I wanted to take them with me and, a few weeks ago, I took my old SE535s and Senn MTWs to a conference.  I used the MTWs for my time at the airport and the conference (to listen to music and take calls) and the compact size of just carrying around the MTWs and not having cables was really convenient.  For the plane, I got an ES100 to listen to music with my SE535s using LDAC and changed the cable to a short 46" cable to reduce bulk (shorter cable allows me to put the SE535s in the original case while still attached to the ES100).  I also changed the foam tips to the Spinfit CP800s since foam tips are annoying when you have to take them out every time the flight attendant comes by.  I was able to listen to music using bluetooth and also plug into the in-flight entertainment system to watch a movie during the flight.  I get a pretty good seal with the Spinfits and the guy next to me had to tap me on my shoulder a few times when I didn't respond to the flight attendant who was asking me if I wanted to drink.  You could probably do this with any IEM (I would suggest getting MMCX connectors if you want to change the cables).  Having both the wired IEM/ES100 combo and TW was really convenient and didn't add much bulk.  You can do this with any IEM and I am sure there are much better IEMs available now at lower price points.  This thread probably isn't the right place to discuss wired IEMs but I will note that I will be doing this again for my flight next month as well.



Thanks! I’m going to try some IEMs with and the ES100. I guess the tips will be key.


----------



## howdy

ffcruzm said:


> I've been reading a ton. A lot of reading but don't do much posting.
> 
> So I went ahead and got the Sony WF-1000XM3 and had to return them. The sound was good (not  as good as I was expecting) but I could not get a good seal. Tried all the supplied tips and a few comply tips I had. The complys did the trick but the case would not close (it would after much pushing, which didn't give a lot of comfort). My ears are "regular" sized but the ear canals are wide. I also had the big brothers (WH-1000XM3) before, but hardly used them as they are big and a pain to carry around, so sold them as well.
> 
> ...


To bad about the Wf1000xm3. If the music is off it will seem like you don't habe a seal buy turn the ANC on with no music playing and you'll hear the difference, which is substantial. 
As for others, I would recommend the Sennheiser MTW and or the the new M&D MW07 plus due to arrive soon.


----------



## d3myz (Oct 3, 2019)

Just wanted to add another confirmation that the SSK BT03 is indeed an almost exact clone of the Anbes 359. I’ve only listen to one song on them and they seem to have just a tad less bass but I think that’s because they need to be broken in a little bit and then they’ll open up. My second pair of 359’s was the same way.


----------



## HiFlight

ricthaman said:


> Been following this thread for a while, and received the Audio-Technica ath-cks5tw today. First impressions will follow, but fiest thing to say is that I’ve had to change the tips for better comfort and sound. Using tips that came with the Fiio FH5 and they work brilliantly.
> 
> If you have questions on this set of tws, let me know and I’ll see if I can answer them
> 
> regards


I am really looking forward to your impressions especially as to connectivity and comfort.  They do look rather large, but it is rather hard to tell for sure as their website does not show a photo of it in place.  I have owned a number of A-T devices over the years and these have really caught my interest.


----------



## hifi80sman

howdy said:


> To bad about the Wf1000xm3. If the music is off it will seem like you don't habe a seal buy turn the ANC on with no music playing and you'll hear the difference, which is substantial.
> As for others, I would recommend the Sennheiser MTW and or the the new M&D MW07 plus due to arrive soon.


Dammit, @howdy.  I think I'm going to pick up the WF-1000XM3 now that they're in stock at Best Buy.  Let's see if they live up to the hype, you Hypebeast!


----------



## The Apostle

ffcruzm said:


> I've been reading a ton. A lot of reading but don't do much posting.
> 
> So I went ahead and got the Sony WF-1000XM3 and had to return them. The sound was good (not  as good as I was expecting) but I could not get a good seal. Tried all the supplied tips and a few comply tips I had. The complys did the trick but the case would not close (it would after much pushing, which didn't give a lot of comfort). My ears are "regular" sized but the ear canals are wide. I also had the big brothers (WH-1000XM3) before, but hardly used them as they are big and a pain to carry around, so sold them as well.
> 
> ...



TW may not be where we want them just yet.  But I'll say, I travel a lot for work.  The Jabra Elite 65t is pretty solid on an airplane.  Definitely not perfect but I pretty damn good.  I'd you set them to "focus" mode it's pretty impressive how much it blocks out.


----------



## Caipirina

Blueshound24 said:


> So the BT20S must be new improved BT20.
> I could get them on Amazon or Ali. Do you know how to pick a good seller there? There is a seller with the most sales at 309 units sold, maybe they would be the safest choice or just go with Amazon USA.



My seller of choice quite often is NiceHCK Audio ... they don't pop up on first search on the Ali frontpage (guess sellers have to pay extra for that privilege)
They sold 247 units and are actually a buck cheaper than AK Audio atm. 
Never had any issues with them.


----------



## FYLegend

gibletzor said:


> Drop has the Sabbat X12 Ultra for $40.  Looks like $60 on AE.  Not sure if it's my cup of tea but I see the older X12s mentioned around here a lot.


They're 41$ on Aliexpress for the camo ones if you use the app. You need to use the mobile app to see the cheapest price which is a huge difference (up to 20$) compared to the website. Sometimes sellers have a sale schedule that increases/decreases every 12 hours or so as well.

It seems my E12 Ultra has shipped out from the seller, thought it would take longer due to the national holiday but so far no update from EMS except a tracking number. I got it from JRGK-E store but now I see ALL3C has them as well for a bit cheaper (~75$CAD), either way I saved a fair bit with an Aliexpress coupon. ALL3C seems fairly reputable (similar to Flyda 3C, they offer freebies/bundles) but I was worried they might be the same person as Flyda which I was soured over last time.


----------



## chinmie

Blueshound24 said:


> I'm not going to quote everybody who responded so kindly to my rant, but I appreciate and thank you all for the gracious and understanding posts. Today my rant doesn't seem so important to me, maybe just venting was cathartic for me.
> 
> @chinmie, thanks for bringing up the BT20S and TM2. That sounds like a good idea because then I can use my own IEMs which are a known quality to me. I was just looking on Ali Express for them, so how do you pick a good seller there? There is a seller with the most sales at 309 units, maybe they would be the safest choice?
> 
> Amazon has them for $55, and on Ali $37, so it is a lot cheaper there. And shipping from either would be ~ 3 weeks, too bad shipping from China takes so long.



i bought mine from AK Audio. i usually pick a few sellers who have good reviews and have sold a few, then just pick the cheapest among them. 

word of caution about the BT20S and BT20: if your IEM have low impedance and high sensitivity, it might be best to choose the older BT20 instead. if your IEM needs a more bit of volume, go with the newer one



TK33 said:


> I am pretty new to true wireless and was using my B&W P5s for air travel due to the compact size (don't really care for ANC).  Since I just got true wireless earbuds, I wanted to take them with me and, a few weeks ago, I took my old SE535s and Senn MTWs to a conference.  I used the MTWs for my time at the airport and the conference (to listen to music and take calls) and the compact size of just carrying around the MTWs and not having cables was really convenient.  For the plane, I got an ES100 to listen to music with my SE535s using LDAC and changed the cable to a short 46" cable to reduce bulk (shorter cable allows me to put the SE535s in the original case while still attached to the ES100).  I also changed the foam tips to the Spinfit CP800s since foam tips are annoying when you have to take them out every time the flight attendant comes by.  I was able to listen to music using bluetooth and also plug into the in-flight entertainment system to watch a movie during the flight.  I get a pretty good seal with the Spinfits and the guy next to me had to tap me on my shoulder a few times when I didn't respond to the flight attendant who was asking me if I wanted to drink.  You could probably do this with any IEM (I would suggest getting MMCX connectors if you want to change the cables).  Having both the wired IEM/ES100 combo and TW was really convenient and didn't add much bulk.  You can do this with any IEM and I am sure there are much better IEMs available now at lower price points.  This thread probably isn't the right place to discuss wired IEMs but I will note that I will be doing this again for my flight next month as well.



i also usually bring a wired IEM (ER4XR) with ES100 and a TWS for traveling. if I'm traveling with my wife, i bring 2 sets of each. i only use the wired IEM on planes and hotels, while the TWS i use for everything else. the great thing about today's TWS, their standby time can last a full day of light to moderate use. I'm confident enough just to bring the earpiece in my jacket without the case for a single day.

for plane use, i always use the IFI Ear Buddy to reduce the volume and hiss from the in-plane audio system, as they usually set too loud


----------



## Blueshound24

gibletzor said:


> Drop has the Sabbat X12 Ultra for $40.  Looks like $60 on AE.  Not sure if it's my cup of tea but I see the older X12s mentioned around here a lot.




I didn't know this but the new Ultra version changed to an earbud style instead of interchangeable tips. I don't think I would like that.


----------



## srinivasvignesh

Blueshound24 said:


> I didn't know this but the new Ultra version changed to an earbud style instead of interchangeable tips. I don't think I would like that.



The X12 series always was earbud style. I guess you are getting confused between E12 Vs X12.


----------



## TK33 (Oct 3, 2019)

chinmie said:


> for plane use, i always use the IFI Ear Buddy to reduce the volume and hiss from the in-plane audio system, as they usually set too loud



Interesting  I will have to look into that  Guessing it is an attenuator? I usually have to turn the volume way down on planes as well.

Definitely not brave enough to take my TWS without a case.  Too likely I will lose at least 1 earpiece.


----------



## Ocelitgol

Blueshound24 said:


> So the BT20S must be new improved BT20.
> I could get them on Amazon or Ali. Do you know how to pick a good seller there? There is a seller with the most sales at 309 units sold, maybe they would be the safest choice or just go with Amazon USA.


I dont have much experience with Aliexpress but many seem to be happy with it. I bought from Amazon myself though. Just for the peace of mind


----------



## Blueshound24

srinivasvignesh said:


> The X12 series always was earbud style. I guess you are getting confused between E12 Vs X12.




Ok, I guess I am. Thanks for the clarification.


----------



## chinmie

TK33 said:


> Interesting  I will have to look into that  Guessing it is an attenuator? I usually have to turn the volume way down on planes as well.
> 
> Definitely not brave enough to take my TWS without a case.  Too likely I will lose at least 1 earpiece.



yup, it's basically an attenuator, it works wonder to clean that plane audio output and preventing the announcement blasting my ears out


----------



## georgelai57

Tempted to pre-order the KZ E10, an in-betweener TWS.


----------



## Caipirina

Soooo, Apple is allegedly about to release an in-ear ANC version of the airpods ... that pictogram was found in iOS 13.2 beta .. and those 'leak' pics have been making the rounds ... 
apply salt generously ...  


 

Look like tiny hair dryers ...


----------



## vstolpner

Caipirina said:


> Soooo, Apple is allegedly about to release an in-ear ANC version of the airpods ... that pictogram was found in iOS 13.2 beta .. and those 'leak' pics have been making the rounds ...
> apply salt generously ...
> 
> 
> ...


Those. Look. Ridiculous.....
Also - what's the point of ANC if you're not even going to properly seal them?
Or is this like the guy who invented the first automated shaving machine? (Everyone has a differently shaped face... The first time....)


----------



## voicemaster

vstolpner said:


> Those. Look. Ridiculous.....
> Also - what's the point of ANC if you're not even going to properly seal them?
> Or is this like the guy who invented the first automated shaving machine? (Everyone has a differently shaped face... The first time....)



Well it is APPLE we are talking about. They will most likely say their ANC the next revolutionary thing ever. They be calling ANC with some fancy name like liquid noise void w/e and people will be buying it and sell for a mere $250.


----------



## FYLegend

vstolpner said:


> Those. Look. Ridiculous.....
> Also - what's the point of ANC if you're not even going to properly seal them?
> Or is this like the guy who invented the first automated shaving machine? (Everyone has a differently shaped face... The first time....)


If a non-IEM can block out the static noise such as trains or planes via phase inversion, it would fare well for those "I hate things shoved in my ear" or "I like to be able to hear my surroundings"  users... However, these look like they're in-ear.

Personally I've steered clear of stems, hair-dryers, and earhooks though. Negative-fit or downward profile is the way to go for me.


----------



## Caipirina (Oct 4, 2019)

vstolpner said:


> Also - what's the point of ANC if you're not even going to properly seal them?



ever checked out the Bose QC 20? They are not “properly sealing” and have amazing ANC imho.

but it looks like these new AirPods actually ARE in-ear (at least this is how I see the pictograph)



voicemaster said:


> They be calling ANC with some fancy name like liquid noise void w/e and people will be buying it and sell for a mere $250.



“Focus Mode” According to 9to5mac

let’s see


----------



## voicemaster

Caipirina said:


> ever checked out the Bose QC 20? They are not “properly sealing” and have amazing ANC imho.
> 
> but it looks like these new AirPods actually ARE in-ear (at least this is how I see the pictograph)
> 
> ...



You sure it doesn't have any "liquid" word in it? I believe apple likes to put that word in every LiquidCD panel they use.


----------



## Caipirina

voicemaster said:


> You sure it doesn't have any "liquid" word in it? I believe apple likes to put that word in every LiquidCD panel they use.


Or ‘bionic’ for chips


----------



## voicemaster

Caipirina said:


> Or ‘bionic’ for chips


----------



## Caipirina (Oct 4, 2019)

voicemaster said:


>


While I am a total apple fan boy and deeply ingrained into the apple eco-system (*), I also appreciate heavy doses of fun making 

Just from those very initial looks and past experiences, I think I will like those upcoming Bose 700 TWS better than the airpods 3

But seems ANC is the next big thing and next summer we will all be raving here about how we are ordering the next 20$ pair of ANC chi fi buds from AliX 

(*) actually, not THAT deeply ... i never, ever buy anything from the iTunes store ... my music comes from old CD rips and free-streams like mixcloud


----------



## webvan (Oct 4, 2019)

FYLegend said:


> If a non-IEM can block out the static noise such as trains or planes via phase inversion, it would fare well for those "I hate things shoved in my ear" or "I like to be able to hear my surroundings"  users... However, these look like they're in-ear..



Indeed and that's likely what made the QC20 the success they are in spite of their price, however I didn't keep them because they don't block conversations and had that huge awkwardly located battery pack.

@FYLegend - good price for the X12 Ultra indeed on the AE mobile app.

@The Apostle - I see you mention the "Focus" mode but I never really got what the modes in the app did, if you use the same settings they sound exactly the same to me, isolation and EQ wise, am I missing something ?


----------



## Bartig

With over 50 models tested ranging from 10 to 300 dollar, I'm safe to say that... *there's a new king of TWS under $100.*

 
These sound so detailed, have a great and natural feeling soundstage and their tonality is so much better than so many other TWS under and above $100.

Here's my complete review of the Shanling MTW100, if you're interested.


----------



## Caipirina

Bartig said:


> With over 50 models tested ranging from 10 to 300 dollar, I'm safe to say that... *there's a new king of TWS under $100.*
> 
> 
> These sound so detailed, have a great and natural feeling soundstage and their tonality is so much better than so many other TWS under and above $100.
> ...



Gosh, you make me open my wallet again   But I was planning on checking if I can find it at Jaben in SIN next week anyways 
Thanks for the great review!


----------



## mattedialdoc

Bartig said:


> With over 50 models tested ranging from 10 to 300 dollar, I'm safe to say that... *there's a new king of TWS under $100.*
> 
> 
> These sound so detailed, have a great and natural feeling soundstage and their tonality is so much better than so many other TWS under and above $100.
> ...



Bart, thanks for taking the time to make another awesome review. Super helpful for us.

These look like amazing buds...but why no volume control. Seems to be a major oversight.


----------



## mjb152

I'm thinking about getting some of the Shanling MTW100 to compare against my Anbes 359,  but the delivery time from Aliexpress to the UK is 20-40 days !


----------



## HiFlight (Oct 4, 2019)

Blueshound24 said:


> I didn't know this but the new Ultra version changed to an earbud style instead of interchangeable tips. I don't think I would like that.


Those look exactly like the Willful T1 which were among the worst fitting phones I have ever owned.  The non-existent seal resulted in a thin sound with no bass.  They were returned in short order.


----------



## DrBrawler

VTman said:


> Kanoe provides very good seal for passive noise isolation, with smooth and warm sound signature to my ears. They have healthy dose of bass, and treble rolled off a bit, mid-range is right where they should be. Will recommend them over Whizzer for the SQ.
> 
> Don't have the original Anbes to compare with, sorry.


I jus got these from amazon for 42usd based on ur recommendation. I put some wide bore silicones on. Sound great. Now to wait for my x12 ultras from drop haha


----------



## Grayson73

d3myz said:


> Just wanted to add another confirmation that the SSK BT03 is indeed an almost exact clone of the Anbes 359. I’ve only listen to one song on them and they seem to have just a tad less bass but I think that’s because they need to be broken in a little bit and then they’ll open up. My second pair of 359’s was the same way.



Seems like an amazing deal for $21 on Amazon.  Whoever doesn't have the Anbes 359/Kissral R18 should order!  Can't wait to receive mine.


----------



## clerkpalmer

Hmm, the  MW07 Plus has disappeared from both best buy's website and B&H photo.  This morning, it said it was available in my magnolia center.  When I got to work, the link is now completely gone.  Conspiracy theories?  Perhaps they ran into some issues and need to redo it?  Or perhaps release is imminent?


----------



## LordToneeus

clerkpalmer said:


> Hmm, the  MW07 Plus has disappeared from both best buy's website and B&H photo.  This morning, it said it was available in my magnolia center.  When I got to work, the link is now completely gone.  Conspiracy theories?  Perhaps they ran into some issues and need to redo it?  Or perhaps release is imminent?


The black quartz disappeared a few days ago, but I could still access the steel blue page as late as... this morning.  Now it's gone too.


----------



## clerkpalmer

LordToneeus said:


> The black quartz disappeared a few days ago, but I could still access the steel blue page as late as... this morning.  Now it's gone too.



Yep.  Pulled from B&H photo too.  My uneducated guess is this thing is probably not ready for prime time and M&D instructed that they be pulled.  Hope I am wrong.  Was looking forward to this one - especially with the ANC.


----------



## Punslayer

HiFlight said:


> I am really looking forward to your impressions especially as to connectivity and comfort.  They do look rather large, but it is rather hard to tell for sure as their website does not show a photo of it in place.  I have owned a number of A-T devices over the years and these have really caught my interest.



https://www.audio-technica.co.jp/atj/sc/solidbass/

There are several good shots on that page and in the video.  I'm more interested in the CK3TW myself.


----------



## HiFlight

Punslayer said:


> https://www.audio-technica.co.jp/atj/sc/solidbass/
> 
> There are several good shots on that page and in the video.  I'm more interested in the CK3TW myself.


Thanks for the link.  These look to be too large and conspicuous for my taste, long battery life notwithstanding.


----------



## sanity8me

Bartig said:


> With over 50 models tested ranging from 10 to 300 dollar, I'm safe to say that... *there's a new king of TWS under $100.*
> 
> 
> These sound so detailed, have a great and natural feeling soundstage and their tonality is so much better than so many other TWS under and above $100.
> ...



Awesome. Wish these were available on Amazon. Wonder how much of a hit Shanling takes by offering their products there.


----------



## Caipirina

vstolpner said:


> Those. Look. Ridiculous.....
> Also - what's the point of ANC if you're not even going to properly seal them?



i have a feeling they will end up looking a lot like those SoundPeats, but in white. With proper seal.


----------



## d3myz

Bartig said:


> With over 50 models tested ranging from 10 to 300 dollar, I'm safe to say that... *there's a new king of TWS under $100.*
> 
> 
> These sound so detailed, have a great and natural feeling soundstage and their tonality is so much better than so many other TWS under and above $100.
> ...


Has anyone commented on how the Graphene DD in the Shanling sounds?


----------



## Luchyres

Bartig said:


> Now this is a set I have high expectations for.



@Bartig You ordered the TRN T200 as well, yeah? If so I'm really interested to hear your impression on T200 vs Shanling - though personally I think I'd get the DD version (the white is pushing me away tho - the one color I don't want).


----------



## vstolpner

sanity8me said:


> Awesome. Wish these were available on Amazon. Wonder how much of a hit Shanling takes by offering their products there.



If I'm not mistaken Amazon takes 30% if you use their logistics.


----------



## webvan

karloil said:


> Yes, CP360. Using both on my 65t and Tevi.


Received the CP360 in a 2-Pack, M and L and L works great for my 65t's indeed, thanks for the tip ! I no longer need to twist it and push it back in from time to time in my right ear. The comply foam piece I had tucked in helped a bit but it still came loose. Couple of things though, the sound is a lot "brighter" and I had to EQ down the highs in the Jabra app (the setting then sticks), did you notice that too ? They need quite a bit of "nudgin" to fit in the case but the lid closes and they seem to charge ok.

I tried them with the WF-1000MX3 too as Amazon comments had reported success, but I don't get a seal.


----------



## d3myz

This IEM, the  BLON BL-03 is getting some pretty good attention on Head-fi and i'm wondering if anyone here has used them with the BT20s.


----------



## voicemaster

d3myz said:


> This IEM, the  BLON BL-03 is getting some pretty good attention on Head-fi and i'm wondering if anyone here has used them with the BT20s.


----------



## d3myz

voicemaster said:


>


What are you impressions? Any white noise? How does the sound sig. change from BT vs. wired etc?


----------



## VTman

DrBrawler said:


> I jus got these from amazon for 42usd based on ur recommendation. I put some wide bore silicones on. Sound great. Now to wait for my x12 ultras from drop haha



Glad you enjoy your Kanoe. Seems their positive reviews are slowly accumulating on Amazon.


----------



## hifi80sman

clerkpalmer said:


> Yep.  Pulled from B&H photo too.  My uneducated guess is this thing is probably not ready for prime time and M&D instructed that they be pulled.  Hope I am wrong.  Was looking forward to this one - especially with the ANC.


Yep, you're probably on to something.  Certainly, if a retailer lists a product, there is some communication between them and the supplier, so either there is a supply/manufacturing issue (units available, parts, etc.) or possibly an issue with firmware.  My guess, is they likely had a target date, retailers with agreements posted it in anticipation (as they do 30 days out or so), then M&D ran into supply issues.  /end conjecture


----------



## clerkpalmer

hifi80sman said:


> Yep, you're probably on to something.  Certainly, if a retailer lists a product, there is some communication between them and the supplier, so either there is a supply/manufacturing issue (units available, parts, etc.) or possibly an issue with firmware.  My guess, is they likely had a target date, retailers with agreements posted it in anticipation (as they do 30 days out or so), then M&D ran into supply issues.  /end conjecture



I also email M&D support on Monday (because I am a loser with nothing else to do) and all they said was "stay tuned".


----------



## voicemaster

d3myz said:


> What are you impressions? Any white noise? How does the sound sig. change from BT vs. wired etc?



It is a great combination imho. There is white noise, but very faint and won't distract you from your listening session at all. I am only using wireless right now because I don't have any cable replacement.


----------



## hifi80sman (Oct 4, 2019)

howdy said:


> To bad about the Wf1000xm3. If the music is off it will seem like you don't habe a seal buy turn the ANC on with no music playing and you'll hear the difference, which is substantial.
> As for others, I would recommend the Sennheiser MTW and or the the new M&D MW07 plus due to arrive soon.


OK, @howdy, I gotta give you some love here.  The WF-1000XM3 are _*fantastic*_.  They sound unquestionably better than the previous generation and the ANC is excellent.  I have the Bose QC 30 as well and I'd say they're right on-par with those.  The WF-1000XM3 may even do a bit better than the QC 30 in the lower registers, but the QC 30 seems to be a _little _better with ambient noises in the upper mid, low treble regions.

As far as sound, there are no flaws I can really point out (for my taste).  I like the Sony house sound and these do no disappoint.  Bass is nicely textured, especially with some of the 80s synth stuff, which was a surprise given the drivers are only 6mm.  The app does a great job if you need to push the EQ to your taste.  They are sooo 100% a keeper that I decided to also get this case for them.

My wife may kill me.


----------



## VTman

ffcruzm said:


> I travel a lot and while the big WH-1000XM3 were good, their size does not work for me, hence me trying the WF-1000XM3.
> 
> I don't think current TW earbuds are for me (yet), so asking for any recommendations for wired IEMs that have the best isolation possible. I can then think of getting a BT receiver for them if the cables become a pain.
> 
> ...



Try Klipsch X12i or X20i.


----------



## Bartig

Luchyres said:


> @Bartig You ordered the TRN T200 as well, yeah? If so I'm really interested to hear your impression on T200 vs Shanling - though personally I think I'd get the DD version (the white is pushing me away tho - the one color I don't want).


I love Dynamic Drivers and I love the MTW100 Balanced Armature. What can I say?


----------



## jasaero

Has anyone ordered from these guys prior?  Open to AliExpress also, but never do have a clue how long an AliExpress vendor will take to get stuff out.  https://hifigo.com/products/shanling-mtw100-true-wireless-earbuds-bluetooth-5-0-earphone


----------



## hifi80sman

Bartig said:


> I love Dynamic Drivers and I love the MTW100 Balanced Armature. What can I say?


Would you describe the MTW100 as more of an "audiophile" tuning?

I'm partial to DD, but the glossy white is a bit of a turn off.  I'd think it would be the other way around; DD in Black and the BA in White (for all you BA softies ).


----------



## d3myz

VTman said:


> Glad you enjoy your Kanoe. Seems their positive reviews are slowly accumulating on Amazon.


Has anyone compared the Kanoe's to the SSK's or the Anbes 359's?


----------



## cwill

d3myz said:


> Has anyone compared the Kanoe's to the SSK's or the Anbes 359's?


I've been meaning to ask the same question. I'm super curious if they sound even better...or just the same.


----------



## tlau1125

Bartig said:


> Now this is a set I have high expectations for.


I’ve read comments on a Chinese web store that the earpiece with a tip larger than the default one (including the large tip that comes with the product) will not fit into the charge case.  Is this true?  If so, it can be quite inconvenient ...


----------



## sanity8me

Does having the aptX LL (Low Latency) codec make a noticeable difference for call quality/delay and video syncing in true wireless buds?

Also, what's the best latency we can expect in the near future for true wireless setups?


----------



## hifi80sman

sanity8me said:


> Does having the aptX LL (Low Latency) codec make a noticeable difference for call quality/delay and video syncing in true wireless buds?
> 
> Also, what's the best latency we can expect in the near future for true wireless setups?


aptX-LL does work well with movies, video, etc.  However, as far as I know, phone calls are part of the HSP (Handset Profile), HFP (Hands Free Profile), while aptX is a codec within AD2P (Advanced Audio Distribution Profile).

There may be others, but one of the few TWS with aptX-LL is the MTW.


----------



## nerdspot

hifi80sman said:


> aptX-LL does work well with movies, video, etc.  However, as far as I know, phone calls are part of the HSP (Handset Profile), HFP (Hands Free Profile), while aptX is a codec within AD2P (Advanced Audio Distribution Profile).
> 
> There may be others, but one of the few TWS with aptX-LL is the MTW.


Does the MTW100 really have aptX LL? Shanling themselves only claim support for AAC and SBC.


----------



## Soreniglio

nerdspot said:


> Does the MTW100 really have aptX LL? Shanling themselves only claim support for AAC and SBC.



I think he meant "momentum true wireless"


----------



## nerdspot

Soreniglio said:


> I think he meant "momentum true wireless"


Ah, gotcha.


----------



## jasaero

cwill said:


> I've been meaning to ask the same question. I'm super curious if they sound even better...or just the same.



Seems someone with these SSK will have to get the Kanoe for us to know!  Haha.  I got these and was about to order a second when I saw only 1 was left.  Give them to one of the kids or something...but then didn't.  Guess they must have decided to give up on the Amazon thing and offered the deal to clear them out??

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07R8TPND5/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o03_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1


----------



## hifi80sman

nerdspot said:


> Does the MTW100 really have aptX LL? Shanling themselves only claim support for AAC and SBC.





Soreniglio said:


> I think he meant "momentum true wireless"


Yep, I meant the Sennheiser Momentum True Wireless.


----------



## sanity8me

hifi80sman said:


> aptX-LL does work well with movies, video, etc.  However, as far as I know, phone calls are part of the HSP (Handset Profile), HFP (Hands Free Profile), while aptX is a codec within AD2P (Advanced Audio Distribution Profile).
> 
> There may be others, but one of the few TWS with aptX-LL is the MTW.



Interesting. So then what improves call quality latency? Better implementations of these phone call codecs and/or an upgraded version of said codecs similarly to the way aptX-LL is for aptX?


----------



## hifi80sman (Oct 4, 2019)

sanity8me said:


> Interesting. So then what improves call quality latency? Better implementations of these phone call codecs and/or an upgraded version of said codecs similarly to the way aptX-LL is for aptX?


HFP is superior to HSP, so if you're looking for call quality, make sure it at least supports HFP 1.6 (mSBC 16kHz "HD Voice"), then it's up to the mic quality themselves (Audio-Technica uses some really poor mics with bad range, sensitivity, etc.), your actual connection, etc.  This presentation reports only a 20ms-30ms latency for HFP 1.6.

For what it's worth, the Plantronics BackBeat Pro 5100 has excellent call quality for a TWS, which has HFP 1.7.

https://www.plantronics.com/be/en/product/backbeat-pro-5100


----------



## howdy

hifi80sman said:


> OK, @howdy, I gotta give you some love here.  The WF-1000XM3 are _*fantastic*_.  They sound unquestionably better than the previous generation and the ANC is excellent.  I have the Bose QC 30 as well and I'd say they're right on-par with those.  The WF-1000XM3 may even do a bit better than the QC 30 in the lower registers, but the QC 30 seems to be a _little _better with ambient noises in the upper mid, low treble regions.
> 
> As far as sound, there are no flaws I can really point out (for my taste).  I like the Sony house sound and these do no disappoint.  Bass is nicely textured, especially with some of the 80s synth stuff, which was a surprise given the drivers are only 6mm.  The app does a great job if you need to push the EQ to your taste.  They are sooo 100% a keeper that I decided to also get this case for them.
> 
> My wife may kill me.


Just wait a week or so, youll be even more impressed as you figure out how like to sit in your ear. Are you using the Spinfits with it?
As for the Wife, my motto is " better to ask for forgiveness than permission" and ive been married over 20 years( to the same wife). 
I also have a rule that I stand by myself and that is if I buy something I get rid of something else. Ive been contemplating selling my beloved CIEMs as I never use them anymore since my BT love.


----------



## sanity8me

hifi80sman said:


> HFP is superior to HSP, so if you're looking for call quality, make sure it at least supports HFP 1.6 (mSBC 16kHz "HD Voice"), then it's up to the mic quality themselves (Audio-Technica uses some really poor mics with bad range, sensitivity, etc.), your actual connection, etc.  This presentation reports only a 20ms-30ms latency for HFP 1.6.
> 
> For what it's worth, the Plantronics BackBeat Pro 5100 has excellent call quality for a TWS, which has HFP 1.7.
> 
> https://www.plantronics.com/be/en/product/backbeat-pro-5100



Thanks. Wonder why this is so rare. I'm hoping future TWS models start implementing HFP 1.6+.

Not really a fan of Plantronics SQ, but are those any good?

Also, looks like these have HFP as well. Not sure if it's 1.6+.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07RP6NF5J/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_i_b07LDb7SDYH1G


----------



## webvan

howdy said:


> Just wait a week or so, youll be even more impressed as you figure out how like to sit in your ear. Are you using the *Spinfits *with it?
> As for the Wife, my motto is " better to ask for forgiveness than permission" and ive been married over 20 years( to the same wife).
> I also have a rule that I stand by myself and that is if I buy something I get rid of something else. Ive been contemplating selling my beloved CIEMs as I never use them anymore since my BT love.



Which SpinFits are you using with the WF-1000MX3 ? The CP100 don't work at all for me (make them stick out even more) and the CP360 don't give me a seal. The only silicone tips I've gotten to work so far (thanks to nc8000 for the tip) are the Final E tips, L in the left and LL in the right ear


----------



## vstolpner

hifi80sman said:


> Would you describe the MTW100 as more of an "audiophile" tuning?
> 
> I'm partial to DD, but the glossy white is a bit of a turn off.  I'd think it would be the other way around; DD in Black and the BA in White (for all you BA softies ).



The BA version is definitely more audiophile tuned (assuming you mean neutral tuning). I believe even Shanling mentioned that.
Also, they're focusing on the BA version, which is why DD is only on white and doesn't have Qi charging.


----------



## webvan

hifi80sman said:


> OK, @howdy, I gotta give you some love here.  The WF-1000XM3 are _*fantastic*_.  They sound unquestionably better than the previous generation and the ANC is excellent.  I have the Bose QC 30 as well and I'd say they're right on-par with those.  The *WF-1000XM3* may even do a bit better than the *QC 30* in the lower registers, but the QC 30 seems to be a _little _better with ambient noises in the upper mid, low treble regions (...)



I'm a bit surprised by your comparison because like the QC-20 the QC-30 do not seal the ear canal so have little passive isolation to speak of unlike the WF-1000MX3, provided you get a seal, which is not easy due to their shape and the complaints most seem to have with the provided tips, be it the silicone or "triple comfort" tips. With Complys or the Final E I get a good seal (plugged ear effect) and the passive+ANC isolation is miles better than what the QC20 can achieve due to their design. Yes the Bose ANC works great for low droning noises, like in an airplane, but can't do much at all with voices.


----------



## jasaero

Wanted to leave impressions of the SSK TWS BT03.  For $22 I paid I have to assume they are an amazing deal for audio quality.  Finally have some TWS that clearly outgun some cheap wired headphone I had paid like $10 for after lots of tries then also.  Those were some ChiFi sorta also.  But from this weird LeTV that tried to enter the west with hardware after getting big in China more as a Netflix type service.  Suspect they were sold here for $10, but seem they are a higher grade that an about anything you have been able to get since for that sorta price.  Anyhow, only went into all that cause my main goal has been to beat out those wired ones as my daily carry headphones since it's looking like devices with I can charge and listen too going forward will get harder and harder to find.

Now the actual impressions.  I can't call them flat/neutral at all, even though I tend to prefer that.  They are maybe more U shaped.  The bass is a little more pronounced that I would prefer mostly.  Not at all boomy or somehow undefined in a way that makes it egregious and muffling like most cheaper products with more focus on bass than I prefer.  The high frequencies are a little more flat and proper I would say.  The biggest difference though vs the other 2 ~$50ish TWS I had tried before starting to follow this thread is they can properly reproduce the track and don't seem to have some dollar store generic buds drivers seemingly.  One was the MEGIVEZ I had seen mentioned here as tunnelled.  It was the worse of the two, but did have volume control with touch and with EQ could sorta clean the sound a bit by cutting bass.  Still was pretty muffled compared to my cheap wired.  The other are the MEBUYZ.  These sounded OK really, but no volume and not special or as good as my wired ones.  The case with bud charge level and case charge level really well defined is a nice feature more should have though.  I had given these to my wife and haven't had chance for back to back audition.  Seemed maybe close to these, but were solid $50 and for sure not as loud or clean sounding at reasonable volumes.  Probably more balanced flat tuning than these SSK though.  The SSK easily have the best sound stage and definition of all the instruments and voices of any I have tried by a good margin, which is a lot of what I am after since with EQ apps you can usually flatten the tuning to what you want.  And these SSK are flat enough I don't feel need to do flatten them always necessarily.  Kinda depends on the song it seems.  It's really only certain content where mild bass boost starts to annoy me.  

I will also say they may not have the sound stage and more completely clean sound of my open HD595, but they are WAY closer than I expected and those can be a bit off flat by having too little bass and cause you to miss bass oriented nuances in stuff that isn't bass focused and not necessarily sound right if you boost it, then sound a bit boring with bass focused music. So while maybe not as open and such as those in the sound stage, can be more enjoyable with some content than even those open back while not annoying folks around you just because they can more properly reproduce the full range with this sealed setup.  Always figured this was possible with sealed in ears and has me curious about BA since that requires less power and still probably works well in such a sealed regime if done right.

The connection to phone is a bit odd since these are I guess a realtek setup vs the 2 qualcomm ones I had tried.  Seems one or other is master and second connects through the first.  Actually seems the left is master as the right will drop and connect as the left keeps playing, but this is rare.  Anyhow sometimes have to drop right into case and take out for it to connect up correctly if I take them out of case out of order.  No biggies just oddities that didn't matter with the qualcomm setup.  The qualcomm setup would do funny handshaking though sometimes and get itself somewhat confused for a bit before you could start listening.  So a wash really.  So far no particular connection issues that I can really say are bad.  The volume with double click is handy, but could use an audible confirmation.  Battery life seems per the claims of 3 hours, but haven't done a true full to dead session yet.  Haven't used them all day at work yet, but could see that as a weakness vs some of the latest options that have really good battery life supposedly.  To me 3 hours is totally legit for $22 with the rest though.  Seems you can still get these on AliExpress for $30 and I totally recommend them even at that price so far.  Will report back on call use and such as that was an even bigger issue with the MEGIVEZ and biggest reason I kept looking.  

Anyhow sorta plan to try the Shanling MTW100 as get the impression that is exactly what I am after other than the missing volume control.


----------



## d3myz

jasaero said:


> Seems someone with these SSK will have to get the Kanoe for us to know!  Haha.  I got these and was about to order a second when I saw only 1 was left.  Give them to one of the kids or something...but then didn't.  Guess they must have decided to give up on the Amazon thing and offered the deal to clear them out??
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07R8TPND5/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o03_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1


Sorry, dudes. I ordered the last one it seems, but it's going to a good home. I'll most likely get the kanoe next week after I sort out my TEVI situation. I listened to them via AptX today and thought they sounded better, but still didn't do it for me. I had them at 82% volume and they just started hurting my ears. I did notice the stock tips sounded better on them then my spiral dots and spinfits. boosted the mid and sub bass a touch and tamed the highs, but i'd take a pair of SSK's, T5's or 359's over them all day for the $$.


----------



## d3myz

jasaero said:


> Wanted to leave impressions of the SSK TWS BT03.  For $22 I paid I have to assume they are an amazing deal for audio quality.  Finally have some TWS that clearly outgun some cheap wired headphone I had paid like $10 for after lots of tries then also.  Those were some ChiFi sorta also.  But from this weird LeTV that tried to enter the west with hardware after getting big in China more as a Netflix type service.  Suspect they were sold here for $10, but seem they are a higher grade that an about anything you have been able to get since for that sorta price.  Anyhow, only went into all that cause my main goal has been to beat out those wired ones as my daily carry headphones since it's looking like devices with I can charge and listen too going forward will get harder and harder to find.
> 
> Now the actual impressions.  I can't call them flat/neutral at all, even though I tend to prefer that.  They are maybe more U shaped.  The bass is a little more pronounced that I would prefer mostly.  Not at all boomy or somehow undefined in a way that makes it egregious and muffling like most cheaper products with more focus on bass than I prefer.  The high frequencies are a little more flat and proper I would say.  The biggest difference though vs the other 2 ~$50ish TWS I had tried before starting to follow this thread is they can properly reproduce the track and don't seem to have some dollar store generic buds drivers seemingly.  One was the MEGIVEZ I had seen mentioned here as tunnelled.  It was the worse of the two, but did have volume control with touch and with EQ could sorta clean the sound a bit by cutting bass.  Still was pretty muffled compared to my cheap wired.  The other are the MEBUYZ.  These sounded OK really, but no volume and not special or as good as my wired ones.  The case with bud charge level and case charge level really well defined is a nice feature more should have though.  I had given these to my wife and haven't had chance for back to back audition.  Seemed maybe close to these, but were solid $50 and for sure not as loud or clean sounding at reasonable volumes.  Probably more balanced flat tuning than these SSK though.  The SSK easily have the best sound stage and definition of all the instruments and voices of any I have tried by a good margin, which is a lot of what I am after since with EQ apps you can usually flatten the tuning to what you want.  And these SSK are flat enough I don't feel need to do flatten them always necessarily.  Kinda depends on the song it seems.  It's really only certain content where mild bass boost starts to annoy me.
> 
> ...


If I man, I'd recommend giving the SSK's about 3 days maybe even 20 hours of audio and then revisit your review. If they are like my anbes' they will open up. The bass gets lower, the sound stage seems to widen and the highs have better definition. They don't get brighter, the layering is just better IMO. I have 2 pair. One that has over 80 hours on them and one that has about 4 and the sound slightly diff. The latter pair sound exactly like the SSK's I got yesterday.


----------



## Bartig

hifi80sman said:


> Would you describe the MTW100 as more of an "audiophile" tuning?
> 
> I'm partial to DD, but the glossy white is a bit of a turn off.  I'd think it would be the other way around; DD in Black and the BA in White (for all you BA softies ).


Try the BA, trust me. From what I’ve read from you, you’ll love them.



tlau1125 said:


> I’ve read comments on a Chinese web store that the earpiece with a tip larger than the default one (including the large tip that comes with the product) will not fit into the charge case.  Is this true?  If so, it can be quite inconvenient ...


I’ve attached one sizer bigger than the standard one, it works fine. Not accommodating larger ear tips in the case is a problem many TWS have unfortunately. 



sanity8me said:


> Does having the aptX LL (Low Latency) codec make a noticeable difference for call quality/delay and video syncing in true wireless buds?
> 
> Also, what's the best latency we can expect in the near future for true wireless setups?


I don’t think AptX LL makes a difference on iPhone at all. Haven’t check it out on Android well enough yet.


----------



## hifi80sman

howdy said:


> Just wait a week or so, youll be even more impressed as you figure out how like to sit in your ear. Are you using the Spinfits with it?
> As for the Wife, my motto is " better to ask for forgiveness than permission" and ive been married over 20 years( to the same wife).
> I also have a rule that I stand by myself and that is if I buy something I get rid of something else. Ive been contemplating selling my beloved CIEMs as I never use them anymore since my BT love.


Yep, I'm looking to list some stuff for sale.  I notice that even though I like the MTW, I don't really use them very often.  They are still in "like new" condition with the box (like new as well) and all accessories.  I'll probably list them for $200 (price includes standard shipping with tracking, contiguous US only).


----------



## hifi80sman

sanity8me said:


> Thanks. Wonder why this is so rare. I'm hoping future TWS models start implementing HFP 1.6+.
> 
> Not really a fan of Plantronics SQ, but are those any good?
> 
> ...


The Plantronics are good.  SQ is a little bass boosted, mids are a little scooped, and there is a mild bump in the treble (probably around 8-10 kHz).  Overall, I enjoy the sound signature and use it when I know I'm going to be on calls frequently throughout the day.


----------



## jasaero (Oct 4, 2019)

d3myz said:


> If I man, I'd recommend giving the SSK's about 3 days maybe even 20 hours of audio and then revisit your review. If they are like my anbes' they will open up. The bass gets lower, the sound stage seems to widen and the highs have better definition. They don't get brighter, the layering is just better IMO. I have 2 pair. One that has over 80 hours on them and one that has about 4 and the sound slightly diff. The latter pair sound exactly like the SSK's I got yesterday.



Cool.  Looking forward to that.  I see folks can still get the SSK on AliExpress for $30.  I consider that a totally fair price for these.  I have noticed some actual distortion without super high volumes, but it's only with very specific sounds it struggles with and isn't at all common.  At least isn't just generally muddy and undefined like the others I was using and can get reasonable loud rather than basically needing to be run near max.  That was another issue with those.  Suspect that is something that gets done to get closer on the battery life claims.


----------



## hifi80sman (Oct 4, 2019)

webvan said:


> I'm a bit surprised by your comparison because like the QC-20 the QC-30 do not seal the ear canal so have little passive isolation to speak of unlike the WF-1000MX3, provided you get a seal, which is not easy due to their shape and the complaints most seem to have with the provided tips, be it the silicone or "triple comfort" tips. With Complys or the Final E I get a good seal (plugged ear effect) and the passive+ANC isolation is miles better than what the QC20 can achieve due to their design. Yes the Bose ANC works great for low droning noises, like in an airplane, but can't do much at all with voices.


The way the WF-1000XM3 fit me (using the L tips), passive isolation is only OK, but definitely better than the QC 30.  When ANC is activated, low frequency noises (car, bus, droning noises, etc.) are handled better by the WF-1000XM3, but higher frequency noises are cancelled better by the QC 30, even if passive isolation on the latter is not as good.  Overall attenuation of higher frequency noises are a smidgen better on the QC 30.  Lower frequency, the WF-1000XM3 takes the cake.

I could probably play with eartips a bit to see if I can get better passive isolation with the WF-1000XM3.


----------



## Slater

howdy said:


> I also have a rule that I stand by myself and that is if I buy something I get rid of something else. Ive been contemplating selling my beloved CIEMs as I never use them anymore since my BT love.



I like that rule, pretty cool idea.

BTW, how are you going to sell CIEMs? Who would buy them, other than a clone with identical ears?


----------



## Slater

jasaero said:


> One was the MEGIVEZ...
> 
> The other are the MEBUYZ...



MEGIVEZ and MEBUYZ? Are those the real names, or did you make those up?

If they’re the real names, then you’ve got to be MEJOKING, because whoever thought those up were on MECRACK.


----------



## howdy

Slater said:


> I like that rule, pretty cool idea.
> 
> BTW, how are you going to sell CIEMs? Who would buy them, other than a clone with identical ears?


The thing with selling CIEMs is you gotta sell them cheap. Mine are Alclair ( and there some of the best sound I've every heard) so you get a hold of them and if you have impressions of your ears you send it to them and they will remake them to your ears. So you'll take a big loss, in my case I'll be out about $500.00. That is something to always consider when buying CIEMs.


----------



## Slater

howdy said:


> The thing with selling CIEMs is you gotta sell them cheap. Mine are Alclair ( and there some of the best sound I've every heard) so you get a hold of them and if you have impressions of your ears you send it to them and they will remake them to your ears. So you'll take a big loss, in my case I'll be out about $500.00. That is something to always consider when buying CIEMs.



If the CIEMs are encased in solid resin, I can’t picture how they remove the drivers for reuse without destroying them in the process.

Perhaps they’re hollow-shelled?


----------



## howdy

webvan said:


> Which SpinFits are you using with the WF-1000MX3 ? The CP100 don't work at all for me (make them stick out even more) and the CP360 don't give me a seal. The only silicone tips I've gotten to work so far (thanks to nc8000 for the tip) are the Final E tips, L in the left and LL in the right ear


I use the CP-100-L and they work great! They fit in the case and isolate perfectly for me. As for protruding out, I have a big head and big ears so they look great on me.


----------



## howdy

Slater said:


> If the CIEMs are encased in solid resin, I can’t picture how they remove the drivers for reuse without destroying them in the process.
> 
> Perhaps they’re hollow-shelled?


Exactly. They are hollow shelled. I have them reshelled twice one was a see through gray and now it's a solid piano black. PM if interested!


----------



## LordToneeus

Slater said:


> MEGIVEZ and MEBUYZ? Are those the real names, or did you make those up?
> 
> If they’re the real names, then you’ve got to be MEJOKING, because whoever thought those up were on MECRACK.


Don’t forget Zeacock and Meidong!


----------



## hifi80sman (Oct 4, 2019)

LordToneeus said:


> Don’t forget Zeacock and Meidong!


And he ain't joikin', neither.  That's reel right thurr.  X-Rated TWS.  boun chika boun boun (then repeat boun chika boun boun over and over).
https://www.amazon.com/Bluetooth-Wireless-Headphones-Charging-Waterproof/dp/B07S5216WX/


----------



## hifi80sman

Slater said:


> MEGIVEZ and MEBUYZ? Are those the real names, or did you make those up?
> 
> If they’re the real names, then you’ve got to be MEJOKING, because whoever thought those up were on MECRACK.


Oh, they're real names.  Too real.  MEBUYZLONGTIME.  MENOLIKEY.
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/goi...re-we-there-yet.861024/page-679#post-15103645


----------



## TK33

webvan said:


> Which SpinFits are you using with the WF-1000MX3 ? The CP100 don't work at all for me (make them stick out even more) and the CP360 don't give me a seal. The only silicone tips I've gotten to work so far (thanks to nc8000 for the tip) are the Final E tips, L in the left and LL in the right ear



Have you tried the CP100Z? I believe the CP100Z were designed for true wireless and may be a little shorter than the CP100.  I definitely got a better seal with those vs the CP360 on my MTWs  I believe the CP360 may be narrower and shorter than both the CP100Z and CP100.


----------



## sanity8me

hifi80sman said:


> The Plantronics are good.  SQ is a little bass boosted, mids are a little scooped, and there is a mild bump in the treble (probably around 8-10 kHz).  Overall, I enjoy the sound signature and use it when I know I'm going to be on calls frequently throughout the day.



Guess Plantronics stepped up their game in terms of audio quality with these and I prefer a warmish sound signature. I read through some of the reviews on Amazon which mirror what you're saying. However, some are saying that there are blatant, intermittent connectivity issues. Plus micro USB is pure silliness nowadays, especially at this price point.

I'll hold off and see what people say about the upcoming Jabra 75t. No surprise that it comes with HFP 1.7. 

I guess it'll be easier to convince my wife why I needed to get true wireless buds if it has good call quality. "I needed them for work babe. Get with the times please. Oh, you want a pair too? Hold on. Let me check on headfi what would best work for you." Ugh, these first world problems...


----------



## Ocelitgol

voicemaster said:


>


Beside from driver flex, what is the effect of covering the hole?


----------



## howdy

@hifi80sman 
I was gonna ask if you had a Aha moment when you bought those Sony!


----------



## voicemaster

stormers said:


> Beside from driver flex, what is the effect of covering the hole?



I didn't cover any hole.


----------



## jasaero

hifi80sman said:


> Oh, they're real names.  Too real.  MEBUYZLONGTIME.  MENOLIKEY.
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/goi...re-we-there-yet.861024/page-679#post-15103645



Yep found this thread and that post far too late.  Haha.  Was just trying random stuff with QCC3020.


----------



## jasaero (Oct 5, 2019)

Never seen this info on these until his obvious biased little ad here.  BTW, he does have link in his stuff there to get these for $100.


----------



## hifi80sman

sanity8me said:


> Guess Plantronics stepped up their game in terms of audio quality with these and I prefer a warmish sound signature. I read through some of the reviews on Amazon which mirror what you're saying. However, some are saying that there are blatant, intermittent connectivity issues. Plus micro USB is pure silliness nowadays, especially at this price point.
> 
> I'll hold off and see what people say about the upcoming Jabra 75t. No surprise that it comes with HFP 1.7.
> 
> I guess it'll be easier to convince my wife why I needed to get true wireless buds if it has good call quality. "I needed them for work babe. Get with the times please. Oh, you want a pair too? Hold on. Let me check on headfi what would best work for you." Ugh, these first world problems...


Yeah, for calls, totally recommend the 65t, so the 75t is a no brainer.

I do wish Plantronics went with USB-C, but the wind cancellation ability was the most attractive.  On nice days, I like to sit outside at the coffee shop, so if I have to jump on the line for business, I don't have to move inside if it's breezy.


----------



## Wiet Rasjidgandha

BigZ12 said:


> https://www.lypertek.com/product-page/lypertek-tevi-truly-wireless-earphones
> These look promising. Don't think I've read about them in this thread?


This Lypertek Tevi is really good, better than my others tws : Edifier tws1 n TFZ X1. I want to compare it with Melomania M1


----------



## hifi80sman

howdy said:


> @hifi80sman
> I was gonna ask if you had a Aha moment when you bought those Sony!


LOL!  I obviously did.


----------



## Trzystatrzy

Hey! I have Anomoibuds Capsule. What do you recommend as a sound upgrade for them (larger, more three-dimensional soundstage), which will play at least 6 hours on one charge? My budget is ~$100. Cheers!


----------



## Blueshound24

Bartig said:


> I love Dynamic Drivers and I love the MTW100 Balanced Armature. What can I say?




I really appreciate all your reviews. I think I'm down to either the MTW100 or the Tevi. Have you been able to compare those two?


----------



## Luchyres

Blueshound24 said:


> I really appreciate all your reviews. I think I'm down to either the MTW100 or the Tevi. Have you been able to compare those two?



My opinion may mean little (owning neither) but of the two, I am only considering the mtw100 BA or DD and not the Tevi - the opinion I've subconsciously formed reading the thread was that the mtw100 has superior in sq and is more to my taste, the case seems more convenient, and given the Tevi proximity to the T5 - I'd get the T5 but I think the shanlings are more worth the $100.


----------



## hifi80sman (Oct 5, 2019)

Trzystatrzy said:


> Hey! I have Anomoibuds Capsule. What do you recommend as a sound upgrade for them (larger, more three-dimensional soundstage), which will play at least 6 hours on one charge? My budget is ~$100. Cheers!


@Bartig has a pretty good site that may help you out.
https://www.scarbir.com/truewireless

However, if this is you below and you've already viewed the site, then I'd recommend:





In no particular order:
1)  Creative Outlier Air or Gold - Sound is great, but buttons are a bit stiff.  If you can deal with the buttons, they are a good buy and have great specs.
2)  1More Stylish - Great call quality, comfortable.  Good sound, a little warm/dark, but can EQ.  Deep bass.
3)  Aukey T10 - Sound is very similar to the Galaxy Buds.  Very crisp, clean sound.  Well balanced.
4)  Anker Soundcore Liberty Air 2 - Great clarity, notes sound precise, with well defined bass.  22 presets for EQ within the app to find a setting you like.  They do have the Airpod look, so if you don't mind that, they're a great choice.


----------



## vstolpner

Blueshound24 said:


> I really appreciate all your reviews. I think I'm down to either the MTW100 or the Tevi. Have you been able to compare those two?



I have the Mpow T5 and Shanling MTW100 BA. I know the Tevi is a more audiophile tuned version of the T5. If that's what you're looking for,I would suggest the MTW100 BA. 
1. It uses a Knowles BA driver so you'll get better clarity (and since Tevi doesn't have much bass, you're not missing that). 
2. Ambient mode. 
3. Much much smaller case.
4. Qi charging? (not sure about Tevi)
5. Usb C? You can probably compare the tech specs....

That Knowles BA driver is really good. I'm not surprised @Bartig ranked them #1 under $100


----------



## jasaero

Another point to add about the SSK Anbes alikes.  Not sure if this is true of others, but the audio sync to video on these is pretty bad.  The qualcomm stuff was better in all instance from this perspective.  Only just now realized that as I was mostly listening to music.  For the $20-30 price seems like a reasonable compromise if you just need them for music anyhow.  Not sure this would be universal on the Anbes 359 alikes as seems someone found they get made with various chipsets and such.


----------



## hifi80sman

jasaero said:


> Another point to add about the SSK Anbes alikes.  Not sure if this is true of others, but the audio sync to video on these is pretty bad.  The qualcomm stuff was better in all instance from this perspective.  Only just now realized that as I was mostly listening to music.  For the $20-30 price seems like a reasonable compromise if you just need them for music anyhow.  Not sure this would be universal on the Anbes 359 alikes as seems someone found they get made with various chipsets and such.


Sync with what?  YouTube?  I found Amazon, Netflix, etc. are pretty good, while YouTube seems to be the one outlier that some have sync issues with.


----------



## jasaero

hifi80sman said:


> Sync with what?  YouTube?  I found Amazon, Netflix, etc. are pretty good, while YouTube seems to be the one outlier that some have sync issues with.



Actually already downloaded video on whatsapp.  YouTube is worse probably.


----------



## exitfire401

Just posted my impressions of the HifiMan TWS600 here: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/hifiman-tws600-first-impression.910058/page-14#post-15227711

Overall, if you're happy with the Sony/Bose/Sennheiser sound, you won't be happy with these.


----------



## Bartig

Blueshound24 said:


> I really appreciate all your reviews. I think I'm down to either the MTW100 or the Tevi. Have you been able to compare those two?


The Tevi is coming my way! 

I also just received the Aukey EP-T10, which is a few dollar above 100 dollars I think. It has a smooth, pleasant sound indeed.


----------



## webvan

TK33 said:


> Have you tried the CP100Z? I believe the CP100Z were designed for true wireless and may be a little shorter than the CP100.  I definitely got a better seal with those vs the CP360 on my MTWs  I believe the CP360 may be narrower and shorter than both the CP100Z and CP100.



Not tried the CP100z no but I can't see them working with the WF-1000XM3 as they do require a "recessed" port to limit their natural tendency to stick out a mile


----------



## avidtenswords

For sound quality, I think your best bet is the sennheiser momentum true wireless. Out of all of the true wireless earbouds, these by fat sound the best. The only problem is that they're quite pricy


----------



## Bartig

avidtenswords said:


> For sound quality, I think your best bet is the sennheiser momentum true wireless. Out of all of the true wireless earbouds, these by fat sound the best. The only problem is that they're quite pricy


It’s tricky to bring this up here.


----------



## Ocelitgol

voicemaster said:


> I didn't cover any hole.


Ah...let me rephrase that. What would be the effect if you cover that hole in your Blon 03?


----------



## Slater

hifi80sman said:


> Sync with what?  YouTube?  I found Amazon, Netflix, etc. are pretty good, while YouTube seems to be the one outlier that some have sync issues with.



I totally agree with this. Not just with the Anbes/SSK either. Just about every one of my Bluetooth devices has a noticeable sync lag with YouTube, but are fine with Netflix or local video media on my laptop.

I’m not sure why.


----------



## Slater (Oct 5, 2019)

stormers said:


> Ah...let me rephrase that. What would be the effect if you cover that hole in your Blon 03?



More sub bass, more driver flex, more ear suction effect.

Poking a small hole in the tape with a sewing needle will help reduce the last 2.


----------



## Ocelitgol

Slater said:


> More sub bass, more driver flex, more ear suction effect.
> 
> Poking a small hole in the tape with a sewing needle will help reduce the last 2.


thank you. another question: will that reduce soundstage? and why poke the hole, isnt that just the same thing with the vent of IEM itself? 

get back to topic: is there TWS that is waterproof like the old Dash Pro?


----------



## Caipirina (Oct 5, 2019)

Traveling for a week and hard time narrowing down which of my babies to bring (and worse: which to leave behind...)



(Bonola, KZ, Tranya, SSK, Haylou, Mifo)


----------



## webvan

You should survive with 6 of them ! What's that nifty case you're using ?

How did the 5k run go with the X12 BTW ?


hifi80sman said:


> The way the WF-1000XM3 fit me (using the L tips), passive isolation is only OK, but definitely better than the QC 30.  When ANC is activated, low frequency noises (car, bus, droning noises, etc.) are handled better by the WF-1000XM3, but higher frequency noises are cancelled better by the QC 30, even if passive isolation on the latter is not as good.  Overall attenuation of higher frequency noises are a smidgen better on the QC 30.  Lower frequency, the WF-1000XM3 takes the cake.
> 
> I could probably play with eartips a bit to see if I can get better passive isolation with the WF-1000XM3.



Interesting, I guess Bose have to tune the ANC differently with the lack/weak passive isolation of the QC-30. I'll say that I haven't used the QC-30, only the QC-20 and maybe wrongly assumed they had the same/lack of passive isolation. The passive isolation on the WF-1000MX3 is not that great and if you get a perfect seal there's not much more you can do.


----------



## FrenchGuy

hifi80sman said:


> @Bartig has a pretty good site that may help you out.
> https://www.scarbir.com/truewireless
> 
> However, if this is you below and you've already viewed the site, then I'd recommend:
> ...



Out of those 4, which one would offer the best noise isolation?


----------



## Caipirina

webvan said:


> You should survive with 6 of them !



I am actually thinking about putting together a little bag with TRN Bt20 & IEMs in addition  

 



webvan said:


> What's that nifty case you're using ?



This one ... I think it's the M size 



webvan said:


> How did the 5k run go with the X12 BTW ?



Plans changed ... it was raining that morning ... so, TV watching on treadmill   And today I had forgotten about it (just remembered when I was already geared up and stretching) 

But dang, that reminds me I wanted to share that for reasons unknown (BT rot?) my Mpow performed rather poorly today in regards to keeping a stable connection ... never happened before .. .


----------



## Trzystatrzy

hifi80sman said:


> @Bartig has a pretty good site that may help you out.
> https://www.scarbir.com/truewireless
> 
> However, if this is you below and you've already viewed the site, then I'd recommend:
> ...


Yeah, it's me  i had no idea scarbir comes from this forum. Cheers!


----------



## webvan

Caipirina said:


> This one ... I think it's the M size



Thanks, yes looks like Size M, too bad there are 5€ shipping fees and amazingly that exact model seems to be available anywhere else on AE, eBay or Amazon, that doesn't seem right


----------



## Caipirina

webvan said:


> Thanks, yes looks like Size M, too bad there are 5€ shipping fees and amazingly that exact model seems to be available anywhere else on AE, eBay or Amazon, that doesn't seem right



I actually got mine 3 years ago from amazon.de    But there are many other sellers on AliX with free shipping, like THIS one ... just do a picture search and find the one you like best


----------



## webvan

Yep, found that one but not the same size M in 24x13x5 and yes tried the picture search on both Amazon and AE


----------



## BigZ12 (Oct 5, 2019)

I have found that I like the tips are not too long/deep?, and that sits at the very end of the earbuds, if you know what I mean.
Like the medium Flexfit foam tips that were included with the Lypertek Tevi. (in the picture it's on a QCY T2C, and fits very well for me !)
Do you know of any other tips with that form factor? Interested in advice for both foam and silicone.
Edit: I see some call them low-profile tips.


----------



## Caipirina

BigZ12 said:


> I have found that I like the tips are not too long/deep?, and that sits at the very end of the earbuds, if you know what I mean.
> Like the medium Flexfit foam tips that were included with the Lypertek Tevi. (in the picture it's on a QCY T2C, and fits very well for me !)
> Do you know of any other tips with that form factor? Interested in advice for both foam and silicone.



Did your cat chew on that tip? My cat goes crazy if she gets close to my earbuds, must be magical ear smell


----------



## BigZ12

Caipirina said:


> Did your cat chew on that tip? My cat goes crazy if she gets close to my earbuds, must be magical ear smell


No  I wiped it gently with a dry microfiber cloth, to make it look decent...


----------



## 0captainteemo0

So i'd like to buy a pair of tws to use at the gym, ideally under €30. I need them quick so no AE but just local Amazon (IT). Mind throwing me some recommendations? I don't need anything fancy, just a stable BT connection, firm fit and decent sound. Thanks in advance!


----------



## posedown

Hi, I own the Mpow T5 and the Sabbat e12 ultra. 
And I want to buy the shanling mtw100 BA. Do you think it's a good idea? Haha

Maybe I will replace the Sabbat if the shanling are better. I think they are. 

What's the best place to buy them? I'm from Germany.


----------



## vstolpner

posedown said:


> Hi, I own the Mpow T5 and the Sabbat e12 ultra.
> And I want to buy the shanling mtw100 BA. Do you think it's a good idea? Haha
> 
> Maybe I will replace the Sabbat if the shanling are better. I think they are.
> ...



The Shanling and the Sabbat are completely different. The Shanling MTW100 BA has a very neutral sound profile, and from what I know if the Sabbat, they are very bass heavy. I would put the Shanling even farther away from Sabbat than the Mpow.

I think it's an excellent purchase and you'll love them, but they're not going to replace any of those.


----------



## Caipirina

0captainteemo0 said:


> So i'd like to buy a pair of tws to use at the gym, ideally under €30. I need them quick so no AE but just local Amazon (IT). Mind throwing me some recommendations? I don't need anything fancy, just a stable BT connection, firm fit and decent sound. Thanks in advance!


For quick and for what I could quickly search for on amazon.it you can’t really go wrong with the QCY T1


----------



## dwil

Can someone recommend me a set of tws iems that support APTX-LL?


----------



## C_Lindbergh

dwil said:


> Can someone recommend me a set of tws iems that support APTX-LL?



Do any TWS except the Sennheiser support APTX-LL? Can't remember another pair that does.


----------



## mattedialdoc

Has anyone here tried the TRN T200 TWS yet?


----------



## turbobb

C_Lindbergh said:


> Do any TWS except the Sennheiser support APTX-LL? Can't remember another pair that does.



Only other one I'm aware of is the NuForce BE Free8.


----------



## hifi80sman

Slater said:


> I totally agree with this. Not just with the Anbes/SSK either. Just about every one of my Bluetooth devices has a noticeable sync lag with YouTube, but are fine with Netflix or local video media on my laptop.
> 
> I’m not sure why.


I fear many "pro" reviewers may only test using YouTube, so their feedback may be a bit skewed. Even the notoriously bad sync with the original WF-1000X works nicely on Amazon Video.


----------



## hifi80sman

FrenchGuy said:


> Out of those 4, which one would offer the best noise isolation?


Both the Creative Outlier (either Air or Gold) and the Aukey T10 have good noise isolation, as they both basically rest in your ear.  The other 2 mostly sit in just your ear canal and leave other parts more exposed.


----------



## IamJon (Oct 5, 2019)

jasaero said:


> Never seen this info on these until his obvious biased little ad here.  BTW, he does have link in his stuff there to get these for $100.




I've got the Anker liberty 2 pro on preorder for £99. Looking for an upgrade from my RHA ma650 wireless. Been quite impressed by wife's anker liberty air's. The hybrid coaxial BA design and marketing hype got me intrigued. Only ever used single dynamic driver buds before.

Ended up here while reading up on balanced armatures and hybrid buds. Now I have some kz zs10 pros plus the kz aptx hd neck band on order as well for £45. The trn t200  and echo buds look interesting as well.


----------



## Slater (Oct 5, 2019)

stormers said:


> thank you. another question: will that reduce soundstage? and why poke the hole, isnt that just the same thing with the vent of IEM itself?
> 
> get back to topic: is there TWS that is waterproof like the old Dash Pro?



You don’t poke the hole the same size as the hole you just taped. You just poke it smaller with a needle, so the new (poked) hole is a fraction of the size of the original hole.

It’s just enough to vent off pressure, so as to reduce/eliminate driver flex.

Not sure about the soundstage. You’ll just have to try it and find out. Not sure about waterproof TW either, but I’m sure someone else may know


----------



## Soreniglio

0captainteemo0 said:


> So i'd like to buy a pair of tws to use at the gym, ideally under €30. I need them quick so no AE but just local Amazon (IT). Mind throwing me some recommendations? I don't need anything fancy, just a stable BT connection, firm fit and decent sound. Thanks in advance!



Bomaker would be okay, I guess, I'm loving them so far


----------



## jant71

Just saw another combo by Newsmy this time...





*Newsmy Q7 MP3 Player TWS Wirelss Bluetooth 5.0 Earphone 2in1 OTG FM Radio Pedometer Lossless Sports Running 8G Music Player Earbuds*



The product is a MP3 player, and it is also TWS earphone
Support functions: Photo display, FM Radio, Pedometer, Clock



Size: 58.5*47.5*24.6mm
MP3 Battery Capacity: 700mAh
TWS earphone battery capacity: 40mAh* 2
Screen Size: IPS 1.3inch
MP3 Memory size: 8GB
Charging Conection port: Type C
Support TF Card up to 32GB
Bluetooth 5.0
Music Format: APE/FLAC/WAV/WMA/MP3
MP3 WMA rate: 32Kbps-320Kbps
Support OTG functions for Android(you need to buy an extra OTG cable)

Like the idea of a player case/combo provided the battery life is still there.


----------



## mattedialdoc

Soreniglio said:


> Bomaker would be okay, I guess, I'm loving them so far



Second the Bomaker. Using these daily and they are great!


----------



## Slater (Oct 5, 2019)

Is it just me, or is the soundstage very large on the Anbes 359/SSK? Especially with wide bore tips. I’m using Auvios at the moment.

I’m also planning on enlarging the charge case to get the tips to fit while charging. I’ve already come up with a game plan


----------



## Bartig

Slater said:


> Is it just me, or is the soundstage very large on the Anbes 359/SSK? Especially with wide bore tips. I’m using Auvios at the moment.
> 
> I’m also planning on enlarging the charge case to get the tips to fit while charging. I’ve already come up with a game plan


Bought the SSK, very curious. Because I have an Anbes clone without volume control, I wonder what the difference will be.


----------



## Slater (Oct 5, 2019)

Bartig said:


> Bought the SSK, very curious. Because I have an Anbes clone without volume control, I wonder what the difference will be.



I’ll be curious as well, as I have no Anbes to compare with; only the SSK.

Also, I don’t plan on using the volume controls, even though the SSK has it. I figure the least amount I use the buttons, the least likelihood the rubber part will fall off. I know I can superglue them back on, but I’d rather just have them not fall off in the 1st place


----------



## CardigdanWalk

IamJon said:


> I've got the Anker liberty 2 pro on preorder for £99. Looking for an upgrade from my RHA ma650 wireless. Been quite impressed by wife's anker liberty air's. The hybrid coaxial BA design and marketing hype got me intrigued. Only ever used single dynamic driver buds before.
> 
> Ended up here while reading up on balanced armatures and hybrid buds. Now I have some kz zs10 pros plus the kz aptx hd neck band on order as well for £45. The trn t200  and echo buds look interesting as well.



fully admit I’m a bit of a KZ fan boy, but they release so many things I’ve lost track ... what’s this neck band they have?

i have pre-ordered the KZ E10 in hoping it’s a TWS ZS10 pro ... but perhaps this neckband might be another nice solution


----------



## cwill

Slater said:


> Is it just me, or is the soundstage very large on the Anbes 359/SSK? Especially with wide bore tips. I’m using Auvios at the moment.
> 
> I’m also planning on enlarging the charge case to get the tips to fit while charging. I’ve already come up with a game plan


It is...and it's fantastic. I love these things.


----------



## D3soLaT3

I got a pleasant surprise in the mail today. These are the Lasuney True wireless buds. No kickstarter, no celebrity endorsement, no internet buzz, and not even from a known brand. These are sounding pretty damn good to me. They beat my Lenovo HT10s in everything from soundstage, imaging, and clarity. They use the same QCC3020 chip so it's an apples-to-apples comparison with the Lenovo only winning in bass. Form factor will take some time getting used to since these are my first Airpod style with a stick hanging down and out of my ear. Oh, and did I mention usb-c?


----------



## Slater

cwill said:


> It is...and it's fantastic. I love these things.



I agree. Best $20 I’ve spent in a while.

Between the QCY QS1, SSK, and TRN BT20 (in 2-pin and mmcx), I’m totally happy with my TW earphones and honestly have no desire to keep hunting for better ones.

When I’m in a bass head mood, I use the QS1. When I want more balanced sound with large soundstage, I have the SSK. And for any other mood, I can plug everything else I own into the BT20.


----------



## VTman

IamJon said:


> I've got the Anker liberty 2 pro on preorder for £99. Looking for an upgrade from my RHA ma650 wireless. Been quite impressed by wife's anker liberty air's. The hybrid coaxial BA design and marketing hype got me intrigued. Only ever used single dynamic driver buds before.
> 
> Ended up here while reading up on balanced armatures and hybrid buds. Now I have some kz zs10 pros plus the kz aptx hd neck band on order as well for £45. The trn t200  and echo buds look interesting as well.



Amazon packed a lot into those little Echo buds with some very interesting feature set. I don't care about the micro-USB port or missing wireless charging, but the main reason I didn't pull the trigger to pre-order them was because they don't support AptX or LDAC at all. Can't wait to see what other people say once it's officially released.


----------



## Caipirina

Slater said:


> I agree. Best $20 I’ve spent in a while.
> 
> Between the QCY QS1, SSK, and TRN BT20 (in 2-pin and mmcx), I’m totally happy with my TW earphones and honestly have no desire to keep hunting for better ones.
> 
> When I’m in a bass head mood, I use the QS1. When I want more balanced sound with large soundstage, I have the SSK. And for any other mood, I can plug everything else I own into the BT20.



agree totally on your combo in general. But it is not about ‘hunting for better ones’. It’s in general the fun of the hunt ... and ‘more’


----------



## hifi80sman (Oct 6, 2019)

Amazon Music HD?!  NICE!

https://www.amazon.com/music/unlimited/hd

$12.99 for prime members is awesome!  Need some TWS' now with LDAC and aptX HD!


----------



## Soreniglio

D3soLaT3 said:


> I got a pleasant surprise in the mail today. These are the Lasuney True wireless buds. No kickstarter, no celebrity endorsement, no internet buzz, and not even from a known brand. These are sounding pretty damn good to me. They beat my Lenovo HT10s in everything from soundstage, imaging, and clarity. They use the same QCC3020 chip so it's an apples-to-apples comparison with the Lenovo only winning in bass. Form factor will take some time getting used to since these are my first Airpod style with a stick hanging down and out of my ear. Oh, and did I mention usb-c?



They're not available in EU market


----------



## cleg

I didn't find a separate thread for EW1, so I'll post my impressions video here


----------



## IamJon (Oct 6, 2019)

CardigdanWalk said:


> fully admit I’m a bit of a KZ fan boy, but they release so many things I’ve lost track ... what’s this neck band they have?
> 
> i have pre-ordered the KZ E10 in hoping it’s a TWS ZS10 pro ... but perhaps this neckband might be another nice solution



It's the KZ Aptx HD CSR8675 Bluetooth Module not seen much reviews but like my RHA neckband so thought it was worth trying for the price. Not about the behind ear style TWS but those KZ E10 look pretty nice. Tempting to buy them all, must resist or at least wait for my 2 on order to arrive first.


----------



## Ted Presley

Just pull a trigger on a cheap AptX TWS - Tronsmart Spunky Beat, 25 USD is quite a bargain:

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000196615631.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.31824c4d2DrToH


----------



## toby23 (Oct 6, 2019)

I wonder if any of you could help me with which true wireless in ear headphone to get...
I own many wired and wireless sets but for daily practical use on public transport, bike, walking, office, I almost always end up using my £14.99 Koohoo E2...

I prefer the sound of my RHA T20i but hate the 'over the ear' design, I just can't get into it plus it's a pain to remove and reinsert in the office or whenever you need to speak with someone..
I have thought about getting a Dragonfly Red but have got so used to using bluetooth IEM's that I just want a cable free solution that sounds amazing.

My favourite wired sound signature comes from my Sennheiser HD600's paired with my Oppo HA2-SE DAC and I would like to get as close as realistically possible to this kind of sound from a true wireless IEM.
I also own a pair of Oppo PM-3's but prefer the sound and the airiness of the HD600's. The HD 600's stay at home, unfortunately, which is why I am looking for a mobile solution.

I listen to all kinds of music with Spotify Premium and Amazon Music HD, streamed via desktop or my iPhone XS Max, mainly jazzy, vocal, big beat, funky, electronic kind of music.
I would really appreciate any real world experience recommendations, price is not an issue, sound quality is, but saying that, under £250 would be great. I live in the UK..

I have read a lot of this thread and have no experience of the following products but they seem to tick my boxes - any feedback much appreciated...
1. Lypertek Tevi True Wireless In Ear 
2. Jaybird Vista True Wireless Bluetooth Headphones
3. Cambridge Audio Melomania 1 True Wireless Earbuds


Thanks.


----------



## mikp

jant71 said:


> Did we see this yet? Another "big name" doing a TWS...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


from twitter


----------



## BigZ12

Ted Presley said:


> Just pull a trigger on a cheap AptX TWS - Tronsmart Spunky Beat, 25 USD is quite a bargain:
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000196615631.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.31824c4d2DrToH


Those look very interesting!! And for that price, I think I will go for it.
But; "One-touch Control - Intuitive touch control lets you activate all features with just a tap on the earbud. No need to reach for your phone."?!? There's no volume control... so how can they say that?


----------



## Slater (Oct 6, 2019)

BigZ12 said:


> Those look very interesting!! And for that price, I think I will go for it.
> But; "One-touch Control - Intuitive touch control lets you activate all features with just a tap on the earbud. No need to reach for your phone."?!? There's no volume control... so how can they say that?



I assume it's like the KZ and other TWs - volume controlled via something like double or triple tapping the right bud for up and left bud for down, or maybe long pressing and holding for volume control, etc.

Regardless, while I appreciate manufacturers giving us volume control on these earphones, I personally think controlling volume on TWs with all of the tapping and holding is a PITA. I can press the volume on the side of my phone with 1 press. I don't have to remember which earphone side is volume up, which side is volume down, etc.


----------



## mattedialdoc

BigZ12 said:


> Those look very interesting!! And for that price, I think I will go for it.
> But; "One-touch Control - Intuitive touch control lets you activate all features with just a tap on the earbud. No need to reach for your phone."?!? There's no volume control... so how can they say that?



“No need to reach for your phone” to control the features we allow you to control by touch!!

Can you call for Siri to increase/decrease volume?


----------



## HiFlight

Just thought I would drop a mention of the Back Bay Duet 50 TWS...I have been impressed with these since my first listen.  Small, long playtime, AptX, overall excellent quality for a $45 device.  Sound is expansive, tonally well-balanced.  Vocals on the Duet 50 sound surprisingly realistic.  Customer service is excellent from the US-based company.   Check them out!


----------



## FrenchGuy

D3soLaT3 said:


> I got a pleasant surprise in the mail today. These are the Lasuney True wireless buds. No kickstarter, no celebrity endorsement, no internet buzz, and not even from a known brand. These are sounding pretty damn good to me. They beat my Lenovo HT10s in everything from soundstage, imaging, and clarity. They use the same QCC3020 chip so it's an apples-to-apples comparison with the Lenovo only winning in bass. Form factor will take some time getting used to since these are my first Airpod style with a stick hanging down and out of my ear. Oh, and did I mention usb-c?


What level of noise isolation do they provide?


----------



## FrenchGuy

The more i watch this thread, the more I learn about unknown models/brands that are way cheaper than the "famous" brand......
Amazon has tons of them, with a lot under $50
What I'm looking for is a true wireless earbuds able to "compete" with my current RHA MA750i, which I like for the sound quality but also for it noise isolation (can watch a movie from my tablet in a plane with no issue....)
Any recommendations?


----------



## chinmie

quick update here on IEM that works well with the BT20S : Blon BL03, reeeally small hiss, sounds great, and fit great, well, after adjusting the cable a bit, of course. pairing with BT20 would have no hiss at all


----------



## D3soLaT3

FrenchGuy said:


> What level of noise isolation do they provide?


I would say average. The issue with the Lasuney for some people is going to be fit. These have a very large stem similar to iSines. The included tips are fine but didn't give me the seal I was expecting. Most people people won't have iSines and buying their accessory package isn't cheap. Luckily for me I do, so I'm using the ribbed tips now to get the best comfort and fit. I don't want to sway anyone away from trying these but I do want to make people aware of potential issues. I'll upload photos later today so people can see what I'm talking about.


----------



## Caipirina

Ted Presley said:


> Just pull a trigger on a cheap AptX TWS - Tronsmart Spunky Beat, 25 USD is quite a bargain:
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000196615631.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.31824c4d2DrToH



Those look lovely ... plus USB C ... AND integrated USB-A cable for easy charging ... at least putting this on my wishlist for now


----------



## d3myz

Slater said:


> Is it just me, or is the soundstage very large on the Anbes 359/SSK? Especially with wide bore tips. I’m using Auvios at the moment.
> 
> I’m also planning on enlarging the charge case to get the tips to fit while charging. I’ve already come up with a game plan


I 100% agree. I use the JVC Spinfits and I have some Auvios, I really need to find a way to shorten the stems on the Auvios, I like them but they are too long. Also, the JVC's give a little more mids and highs in TWS's i've used them on, but i'm sure you already know that


----------



## d3myz

Caipirina said:


> Those look lovely ... plus USB C ... AND integrated USB-A cable for easy charging ... at least putting this on my wishlist for now


Wow, those look awesome. 35mah battery is a bit small, but they are cheap. doesn't look like they have volume control, but I don't think i've seen a TWS' with a qualcomm chip that doesn't, so hopefully they do. Great find!


----------



## d3myz

Bartig said:


> Bought the SSK, very curious. Because I have an Anbes clone without volume control, I wonder what the difference will be.


I have both the SSK and the 359. In my findings the SSK are an exact repilca of the Anbes 359, the only thing that's different is the color which I actually prefer.   Oh and it appears there rubber that covers the button on the ssk is a smidge more flush due to a very slightly larger lip then it is on my anbes, so hopefully I don't have to super glue it, like my first pair of 359's.


----------



## Slater

d3myz said:


> I 100% agree. I use the JVC Spinfits and I have some Auvios, I really need to find a way to shorten the stems on the Auvios, I like them but they are too long. Also, the JVC's give a little more mids and highs in TWS's i've used them on, but i'm sure you already know that



Do you mean JVC SpiralDots? Or SpinFits (which are not JVC)?


----------



## d3myz

mikp said:


> from twitter


The Plot Thickens....


----------



## D3soLaT3

Here is a comparison of the iSine and Lunasey.



 
As you can see they are both considerably large with the iSine edging out the Lunasey. 

Here is a comparison of the largest provided tip of the Lunasey next to the ribbed and non-ribbed tips from the iSine's.


 
Tip rolling will be a challenge as most other tips I have simply do not have a large enough bore to fit the Lunasey.


 
With the iSine tip.


 
Largest provided tip.


----------



## clerkpalmer

Is it me or do those noble Falcons have really elongated stems? Looks like they might reach all the way to my ear drum


----------



## d3myz

HiFlight said:


> Just thought I would drop a mention of the Back Bay Duet 50 TWS...I have been impressed with these since my first listen.  Small, long playtime, AptX, overall excellent quality for a $45 device.  Sound is expansive, tonally well-balanced.  Vocals on the Duet 50 sound surprisingly realistic.  Customer service is excellent from the US-based company.   Check them out!


These were discussed previously in the thread, I had two pairs of them.  I thought they were a good all around performer Awesome daily driver for audiobooks, but they lacked bass and volume for me, sound quality was good, but for $45 i'd  rather have the MPOW T5, SSK BT-03 (anbes 359 clones) or even the bomaker sifi.


----------



## d3myz

chinmie said:


> quick update here on IEM that works well with the BT20S : Blon BL03, reeeally small hiss, sounds great, and fit great, well, after adjusting the cable a bit, of course. pairing with BT20 would have no hiss at all


Thank you! i've had my eye on this combo.


----------



## d3myz

Slater said:


> Do you mean JVC SpiralDots? Or SpinFits (which are not JVC)?


Why the hell do I keep doing that, sorry. JVC Spin fits.


----------



## mattiav

d3myz said:


> Why the hell do I keep doing that, sorry. JVC Spin fits.



So....spiral dots?


----------



## d3myz

Guys, Someone please drop $21 and buy these so I can get a second opinion. I've had 2 pair, one had a shoddy charging case and wouldn't seat well, but man, I keep coming back to them, they fit nicely and sound great, Controls are excellent and the soundstage is huge. volume is on the left only, 2 clicks up and 3 down. and the buttons are really easy to press, so the don't dig in to your ear drums.  I have no idea why they have the same model listed at 3 different prices, but I bought the $29.99 for review and then the $20.99 and they are identical.They def. have a v-shape tuning, but the bass is surprisingly textured and very responsive, solid mids and bright treble, they sound fantastic.


----------



## gibletzor

d3myz said:


> Guys, Someone please drop $21 and buy these so I can get a second opinion. I've had 2 pair, one had a shoddy charging case and wouldn't seat well, but man, I keep coming back to them, they fit nicely and sound great, Controls are excellent and the soundstage is huge. volume is on the left only, 2 clicks up and 3 down. and the buttons are really easy to press, so the don't dig in to your ear drums.  I have no idea why they have the same model listed at 3 different prices, but I bought the $29.99 for review and then the $20.99 and they are identical.They def. have a v-shape tuning, but the bass is surprisingly textured and very responsive, solid mids and bright treble, they sound fantastic.


They'll be here Wednesday!


----------



## d3myz

mattiav said:


> So....spiral dots?


I must be drinking idiot juice. Yes Spiral Dots.


----------



## jant71

d3myz said:


> These were discussed previously in the thread, I had two pairs of them.  I thought they were a good all around performer Awesome daily driver for audiobooks, but they lacked bass and volume for me, sound quality was good, but for $45 i'd  rather have the MPOW T5, SSK BT-03 (anbes 359 clones) or even the bomaker sifi.



Truth is they have enough bass. They just include too small tips so they fit into the case without issue. His, mine, and plenty of other reviews/impressions are not wrong. They have a bassy but not too bassy signature. Keep an eye for promos and they can be had for $40 or less. Still totally viable and really solid choice and I got 70 feet unobstructed playing some full court and leaving my player on the other end. Only issue is the opening in the case for the tips and the size of the included tips.


----------



## HiFlight

jant71 said:


> Truth is they have enough bass. They just include too small tips so they fit into the case without issue. His, mine, and plenty of other reviews are not wrong. They have a bassy but not too bassy signature. Keep an eye for promos and they can be had for $40 or less. Still totally viable and really solid choice and I got 70 feet unobstructed playing some full court and leaving my player on the other end. Only issue is the opening in the case for the tips and the size of the included tips.


I found that my UE900 L tips as well as my Jabra large tips fit in the case OK.  Both give me a good seal.  Of course one could wish for USB-C but otherwise an excellent all-arounder.


----------



## dwil

So... I can't find the Anbes 359 anywhere... does anyone knows how the Bomaker Sifi compares? Looking for a comfortable small shell tws iem, can't tell from the photos how much larger the bomaker shell is than the anbes shell. 

Shot in the dark, does anyone own both and can compare?


----------



## carloshacecosas

It seems like I lost my Sabbat X12, so I’m looking for a new pair of TWS. After reading a lot seems like the Galaxy Buds are currently the best option under 200$, right? I’m currently between that and the latest Shanlings, but being able to buy the Galaxy Buds at Amazon is a huge plus for me. 

Anyone using the Samsungs with an iPhone? Seems like you can only use the stock EQ, right? If you change it on an Android phone do they keep the settings?


----------



## vstolpner

dwil said:


> So... I can't find the Anbes 359 anywhere... does anyone knows how the Bomaker Sifi compares? Looking for a comfortable small shell tws iem, can't tell from the photos how much larger the bomaker shell is than the anbes shell.
> 
> Shot in the dark, does anyone own both and can compare?



Don't have the Bowmaker, but my smallest shell is the Shanling MTW100. It's even noticeably smaller than the 359.

For the 359 try for Kissral R18. By all accounts they're the same thing.


----------



## Slater

dwil said:


> So... I can't find the Anbes 359 anywhere... does anyone knows how the Bomaker Sifi compares? Looking for a comfortable small shell tws iem, can't tell from the photos how much larger the bomaker shell is than the anbes shell.
> 
> Shot in the dark, does anyone own both and can compare?



If you can’t find the Anbes 359, get the SSK or Kissral R1.


----------



## cwill

dwil said:


> So... I can't find the Anbes 359 anywhere... does anyone knows how the Bomaker Sifi compares? Looking for a comfortable small shell tws iem, can't tell from the photos how much larger the bomaker shell is than the anbes shell.
> 
> Shot in the dark, does anyone own both and can compare?


I have the Kissral R18. They are the same. They're super light/small/comfortable and sound outstanding.


----------



## FYLegend

Ted Presley said:


> Just pull a trigger on a cheap AptX TWS - Tronsmart Spunky Beat, 25 USD is quite a bargain:
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000196615631.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.31824c4d2DrToH


Looking forward to it. Had mentioned this one a while back but nobody seemed to have picked it up until now.

Is it just me or does the BE30 UFO/Anbes 359 have more hissing than some other TWS? The overall sound quality seems great but the constant noise floor and poor QC of the ones I've got so far holds me back getting a third one. If only there was one with AptX and the UFO Type C case.  On the other hand I'm wondering if I can take it apart and sand down the plastic near the driver which might be why the right side sounds less bright/mid-forward than the left side.


----------



## hifi80sman (Oct 7, 2019)

@howdy or anyone else that has the WF-1000XM3.

1) When switching tracks, pause/play (using R earbud), anyone else notice it cuts out for a split second when it beeps and changes tracks?
2) There are also times when the L earbud is the only one that responds to ambient mode. Anyone else run into this?  I can "reset" by manually activating quick attention mode or putting them in/out of the case.

I'm trying to see if any of these are known issues or if I need to exchange for another pair.


----------



## karloil

keeping things simple


----------



## howdy

hifi80sman said:


> @howdy or anyone else that has the WF-1000XM3.
> 
> 1) When switching tracks, pause/play (using R earbud), anyone else notice it cuts out for a split second when it beeps and changes tracks?
> 2) There are also times when the L earbud is the only one that responds to ambient mode. Anyone else run into this?  I can "reset" by manually activating quick attention mode or putting them in/out of the case.
> ...


Ive never paid that close attention to your 1st question, so if does happen it must be not enough for me to notice.
2nd question: never. They always seem the same. I wonder if it's due to the fact that the left is the switch for the ambient sounds so it does that 1st then the right.


----------



## ricthaman

So I've been using the CKS5TW for a few days now; time for some brief first impressions. I've added some real-life pics for your convenience.

*CONNECTIVITY*
BT 5.0 is actually very stable. Sometimes, when connecting to a new device, the left earbud doesn't connect. A quick drop in the case, getting them out and auto-reconnect does the trick to fix it. I've had zero drop-outs in the meantime, so I'm very happy.

*MIC QUALITY*
I'll be using these in the office, so will make calls with them over both skype and my mobile phone. In both cases, the people on the other side were able to hear me perfectly fine (even when using them in an office space). The call audio is routed to both earbuds, which is very nice. Also, a family member said that (using them with my iPhone) my call quality was on par or even slightly better than when calling without the use of earphones. 

*SOUNDQUALITY *
As far as the sound quality goes, I can say that I'm quite happy with them. The sound is a bit bass-heavy, but not to the point where it messes too much with mids and highs. Soundstage is so-so, but better than expected from this type of IEM. I think the larger driver really helps here, as I do find the IEM with smaller drivers (I've owned the WF-1000XM3 and RHA TrueConnect) terribly congested in terms of sound(stage). What I can say up until now is that I've never been craving extra detail, and I'm quite enjoying the low-end 'oomph' in the high-fidelity presentation these do (if that makes sense). If anything, I'd long for a bit more airy-ness but I'll have to do more listening to get a better image of the sound quality (especially compared to other gear).

For now: very happy, and like them better than WF-1000XM3, TrueConnect and E8.


----------



## georgelai57

karloil said:


> keeping things simple


Hi,

Which DAP is that and what codec is being used? Thanks


----------



## d3myz

jant71 said:


> Truth is they have enough bass. They just include too small tips so they fit into the case without issue. His, mine, and plenty of other reviews/impressions are not wrong. They have a bassy but not too bassy signature. Keep an eye for promos and they can be had for $40 or less. Still totally viable and really solid choice and I got 70 feet unobstructed playing some full court and leaving my player on the other end. Only issue is the opening in the case for the tips and the size of the included tips.


I guess one could consider them bassy if they are sensitive to bass. We all have different physiology and You're definitely entitled to your opinion, but most of the comments i've seen about the "duets" were in regards to them being returned for a lack luster performance and a high price tag. That was my experience with both pair I owned. for comparison, do you own any of the TWS' I mentioned?


dwil said:


> So... I can't find the Anbes 359 anywhere... does anyone knows how the Bomaker Sifi compares? Looking for a comfortable small shell tws iem, can't tell from the photos how much larger the bomaker shell is than the anbes shell.
> 
> Shot in the dark, does anyone own both and can compare?


I did, I returned the Bowmaker. I like the 359 better. better all around for me. the sifi's had a weird deep stem fit and they were very bright and a thin. You can find the SSK BT03 on aliexpress, it's a clone.


----------



## HiFlight (Oct 7, 2019)

d3myz said:


> I guess one could consider them bassy if they are sensitive to bass. We all have different physiology and You're definitely entitled to your opinion, but most of the comments i've seen about the "duets" were in regards to them being returned for a lack luster performance and a high price tag. That was my experience with both pair I owned. for comparison, do you own any of the TWS' I mentioned?
> 
> I did, I returned the Bowmaker. I like the 359 better. better all around for me. the sifi's had a weird deep stem fit and they were very bright and a thin. You can find the SSK BT03 on aliexpress, it's a clone.


Just goes to show how we all hear very differently.  My Bomaker fits very well with a shallow non-canal tip and in no way would I call the SQ bright and thin.   I hear them as quite well balanced tonally nor would I call the Duet 50 performance "lackluster".   I personally don't really consider a $45 TWS IEM as having a high price tag considering that customer service is US based and build quality is a cut above the norm.


----------



## Caipirina (Oct 7, 2019)

Today I was TWS hunting in good ole' Singapore and would you believe that I did not buy a single thing?

First stop Jaben, they did NOT have the Shanling in store yet, though their website claims they will ship out their orders end of Sept. Instead I listened to the Lybertek Tevi and yes, they are on the bright / clarity / detailed side, for which I have my Uiisii  Did not spend too much time with them

In some bargain junk store I found airpod clones for mere 11.95 SGD  nope, did not buy them either ...

At Sim Lim Square I noticed that those shops that had TWS where showing off the same 8 or so models .. many of which I had never seen before ... which leads me to believe that those were ordered from China like 6 months+ ago ... hence they never crossed my radar ... nothing of interest there.

At Stereo.sg I finally got to try (or not) the Powerbeats Pro ... but we could not get them properly connected to my iPhone!!! How crazy .. after lots of trying we got one side connected ...  Not what I am used to from Apple and not in line with their special chip being all magic ... they suspect that something is off ( battery on one side seemed totally drained) and i might come back to try again ... also could not try the ANC on the latest Sony as their demo model is (also?) defect ...  I got to experience the fit of the Jabra 65, but I ran out of time, it wanted me to DL the matching app in order to play ... really need to go back with more time ... oh, and I asked them about the SHanling and my sales guy seemed like he never heard that name ...

soooo ... back to browsing AliExpress I guess ...


----------



## d3myz

jant71 said:


> Truth is they have enough bass. They just include too small tips so they fit into the case without issue. His, mine, and plenty of other reviews/impressions are not wrong. They have a bassy but not too bassy signature. Keep an eye for promos and they can be had for $40 or less. Still totally viable and really solid choice and I got 70 feet unobstructed playing some full court and leaving my player on the other end. Only issue is the opening in the case for the tips and the size of the included tips.


I guess one could consider the to have enough bass if they are sensitive to bass. We all have different physiology and You're definitely entitled to your opinion. Do you own any of the models I mentioned?


----------



## georgelai57

d3myz said:


> I guess one could consider them bassy if they are sensitive to bass. We all have different physiology and You're definitely entitled to your opinion, but most of the comments i've seen about the "duets" were in regards to them being returned for a lack luster performance and a high price tag. That was my experience with both pair I owned. for comparison, do you own any of the TWS' I mentioned?
> 
> I did, I returned the Bowmaker. I like the 359 better. better all around for me. the sifi's had a weird deep stem fit and they were very bright and a thin. You can find the SSK BT03 on aliexpress, it's a clone.


Do the SSK/Anbes have AAC and what chip is used in them? I couldn’t find the answer on Aliexpress. Thanks


----------



## FrenchGuy

Within approximately the same price range, which one would be the best pick to mainly watch movies in a plane from an android tablet;
https://www.amazon.com/LASUNEY-Bluetooth-Cancelling-Waterproof-Headphones/dp/B07WVTJJ6B
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07RDLBHGC?ref_=pe_623860_70668520_dpLink
https://www.amazon.com/TOZO-Bluetoo...orting-goods&sprefix=tozo,sporting,205&sr=8-1

If none of them are good, any other recommendations in the $45 price range?

Thanks


----------



## gibletzor

FrenchGuy said:


> Within approximately the same price range, which one would be the best pick to mainly watch movies in a plane from an android tablet;
> https://www.amazon.com/LASUNEY-Bluetooth-Cancelling-Waterproof-Headphones/dp/B07WVTJJ6B
> https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07RDLBHGC?ref_=pe_623860_70668520_dpLink
> https://www.amazon.com/TOZO-Bluetooth-Wireless-Headphones-Waterproof/dp/B07J2Z5DBM/ref=sr_1_1?crid=1H4X5COFNM7TN&keywords=tozo+t10&qid=1570463290&s=sporting-goods&sprefix=tozo,sporting,205&sr=8-1
> ...


Mpow T5 and Kissral R18 are both available in that price range on Amazon and are proven excellent units.


----------



## hifi80sman

D3soLaT3 said:


> I would say average. The issue with the Lasuney for some people is going to be fit. These have a very large stem similar to iSines. The included tips are fine but didn't give me the seal I was expecting. Most people people won't have iSines and buying their accessory package isn't cheap. Luckily for me I do, so I'm using the ribbed tips now to get the best comfort and fit. I don't want to sway anyone away from trying these but I do want to make people aware of potential issues. I'll upload photos later today so people can see what I'm talking about.


How did you get them for $20?  I'm showing $39.99.


----------



## hifi80sman

Caipirina said:


> Today I was TWS hunting in good ole' Singapore and would you believe that I did not buy a single thing?
> 
> First stop Jaben, they did NOT have the Shanling in store yet, though their website claims they will ship out their orders end of Sept. Instead I listened to the Lybertek Tevi and yes, they are on the bright / clarity / detailed side, for which I have my Uiisii  Did not spend too much time with them
> 
> ...


Don't believe it.  I think you have an extra duffel bag of all your new acquisitions, yet play coy because you don't want to be accused of smuggling TWS' in Singapore.


----------



## mattedialdoc

HiFlight said:


> Just goes to show how we all hear very differently.  My Bomaker fits very well with a shallow non-canal tip and in no way would I call the SQ bright and thin.   I hear them as quite well balanced tonally nor would I call the Duet 50 performance "lackluster".   I personally don't really consider a $45 TWS IEM as having a high price tag considering that customer service is US based and build quality is a cut above the norm.



Agree on the Bomaker. Love these little guys. And I do mean little....case is tiny and love the low profile fit.


----------



## D3soLaT3

hifi80sman said:


> How did you get them for $20?  I'm showing $39.99.


I don't believe I said I got them for $20. Paid $39.99 plus tax.


----------



## hifi80sman

D3soLaT3 said:


> I don't believe I said I got them for $20. Paid $39.99 plus tax.


Ahh, read it wrong.  @Slater replied after your email and said it was the best $20 he's ever spent, but he was talking about something else.  

Got too excited and went into Hypebeast mode.


----------



## Grayson73

dwil said:


> Can someone recommend me a set of tws iems that support APTX-LL?



These aren't TWS as they have a cable between them, but I can confirm that they support APTX-LL.  SoundPEATS Q12 Plus.  https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07KLWS43V/


----------



## BigZ12

Grayson73 said:


> These aren't TWS as they have a cable between them, but I can confirm that they support APTX-LL.  SoundPEATS Q12 Plus.  https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07KLWS43V/


I have these as well, and can also confirm they support AptX-LL. 
Do you like the sound in these btw? I am only using them on my HTPC (Win10), together with a Reiyin AptX LL/HD transmitter, because then I can tweak the sound with the Peter's Equalizer APO. Sound out of the box was not my cup of tea....


----------



## Grayson73

I received these and want to know if my impressions are the same as yours.

*SSK BT-03 (Anbes 359/Kissral R18) - https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07R8TPND5/*
I thought these sounded great!  Detailed, airy, spacious, punchy bass, soundstage.
*
Mpow T5 - https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07SR1FTD4/*
These sounded boring and dull compared to the other two.  They are tonally accurate and warm, but not exciting.
*
SoundPEATS TrueFree+ - https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07QV7V1TZ/*
These sound bright in comparison to the other two.  Tuned slightly unnaturally bright (S sounds, cymbal timbre).  However, they were more exciting, detailed, and airy than the T5.


----------



## Grayson73

BigZ12 said:


> I have these as well, and can also confirm they support AptX-LL.
> Do you like the sound in these btw? I am only using them on my HTPC (Win10), together with a Reiyin AptX LL/HD transmitter, because then I can tweak the sound with the Peter's Equalizer APO. Sound out of the box was not my cup of tea....



I bought them because my dad wanted bluetooth earphones for playing keyboard, so the low latency is a must.  I didn't test them for music, but there was no lag when playing keyboard with this and this TROND transmitter which also supports APTX-LL.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01B4W40VC/


----------



## d3myz (Oct 7, 2019)

georgelai57 said:


> Do the SSK/Anbes have AAC and what chip is used in them? I couldn’t find the answer on Aliexpress. Thanks


I think they only have SBC and I believe based on what I google and @jasaero 's impressions it's the same realtek chip in the 359's.


----------



## d3myz

Grayson73 said:


> I received these and want to know if my impressions are the same as yours.
> 
> *SSK BT-03 (Anbes 359/Kissral R18) - https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07R8TPND5/*
> I thought these sounded great!  Detailed, airy, spacious, punchy bass, soundstage.
> ...


You using stock tips? especially on the t5 I thought the stock tips sounded abysmal. I used spinfit 360's or Spiral dots. Love my SSK's bass and highs get better with use IME.


----------



## BigZ12

d3myz said:


> I think they only have SBC and I believe based on what I google and @jasaero 's impressions it's the same realtek chip in the 359's.


My Anbes 359 have AAC.


----------



## Grayson73 (Oct 7, 2019)

EDITED for those that are not clones.

Three more Anbes 359 clones?  JENTXON - https://www.amazon.com/Wireless-Bluetooth-Headphones-Sweatproof-Earphones/dp/B07QY77PN2/

(Not Clone) MHCOZY - https://www.amazon.com/Bluetooth-Wireless-Earphones-Micphone-Canceling/dp/B07KFLM1KJ

(Not Clone) Lenovo R1 - https://www.gearbest.com/bluetooth-headphones/pp_009287216960.html

These all seem to be Anbes 359 clones.

Anbes 359 (original) - https://www.amazon.com/Bluetooth-5-0-True-Wireless-Earbuds/dp/B07M8LWN2G

Kissral R18 - https://www.amazon.com/Wireless-Bluetooth-Headphones-Sweatproof-Microphone/dp/B07N1GXXFN/ and https://www.amazon.com/Wireless-Kissral-Bluetooth-Headphones-Case-Black/dp/B07HKYGBT8/

SSK BT03 - https://www.amazon.com/SSK-Bluetooth-Headphones-Sweatproof-Microphone/dp/B07R8TPND5

(Not Clone) Yineme - https://www.amazon.com/Wireless-Bluetooth-Cancelling-Playtime-Headphones/dp/B07LGWFR56/


----------



## Grayson73

d3myz said:


> You using stock tips? especially on the t5 I thought the stock tips sounded abysmal. I used spinfit 360's or Spiral dots. Love my SSK's bass and highs get better with use IME.



Yes I tried stock tips as well as Meelectronics double flange.  I'll try some other tips.  I have spiral dots somewhere.


----------



## HiFlight (Oct 7, 2019)

My Libratone Track Air+ arrived this morning.   It was about a 2 week journey as I ordered them from Amazon UK and had them shipped to a friend in Germany who forwarded them to me  here in FL, as Amazon UK does not deliver to the US. 

At any rate, after charging (via wireless), pairing with my phone (instant) choosing the best-fitting tips and finally selecting my options from the Libratone app,  I have had a chance to spend some time listening to some of my favorite tidal selections.

I was pleased to find that the largest of the included tips fit my ears perfectly and rendered the phones as if super-glued in my ears!   These are the first TWS phones I have owned that I found an included tip that fit my challenging ear canals.  

They are very light and actually seem to disappear in my ears.  The small horns cause no issues at all.  The double tap touch controls work reliably with just enough weight to prevent accidental changes.  I set one side to "Next" play selection and the other side to "Hear through/Auto ANC.  ( I have only used  them with the manual ANC for a short time just to see how it works, which is actually pretty well)  The Auto noise cancelling is quite subtle and seamless. 

I did try the Bass, Neutral and Treble tone choices and found the Neutral to sound the most natural and lifelike to my ears.  SQ is superb, with an expansive soundstage and spot-on vocal and instrumental timbre.   These actually compare well with my custom MG5Pro IEM's.   To my ears, they are the best sounding of any of my other TWS buds. (Also the most expensive!)

So far, connectivity has been rock-solid with no hiccups at all.  

I have a coupon from Jabra for a discount on the new 75t which I was planning to try, but with the Track Air+ performing so well, I am not sure whether to go for the new Jabra or not.   

On the down side, the limited touch functions might be a deal-breaker for some, but it seems that the auto ANC keeps things quiet enough that I don't need to do much fiddling with my phone volume control as there is no volume control on the phones.   Also, I decided that the Hear-through/Auto ANC options was more useful to me than the Play/Pause option.  I have no idea if additional functions will be added via a future firmware update or not.  While the app does allow a reasonable degree of customization, it is not nearly as well-developed as is the Jabra Sound+ app. 

I hope this brief overview is useful for anyone considering the purchase of the Track Air+.


----------



## d3myz

HiFlight said:


> Just goes to show how we all hear very differently.  My Bomaker fits very well with a shallow non-canal tip and in no way would I call the SQ bright and thin.   I hear them as quite well balanced tonally nor would I call the Duet 50 performance "lackluster".  I personally don't really consider a $45 TWS IEM as having a high price tag considering that customer service is US based and build quality is a cut above the norm.



I'm glad you like them, I used them every day for a couple weeks and they were great for audiobooks. I really had a hard time sending them back, but they just couldn't compete with my other TWS' in sound quality. I'm curious to what other TWS' you are comparing them with. Tranya T1, Mpow T5, Anbes 359, Tranya T3, QCY T1C,  Trannya B530, 1more Stylish, Ofusho F16, Lypertek Tevi. The Duet is a re-tuned Tranya T1 ($40) with a slight housing design. It may have a different DD in it, but I didn't  do an EQ comparison. If I remember correctly, they fit in the same charging case as the T1 just like the T5 and the Tevi do. Build quality is good, but it's standard for that price point and out of the 40+ Chinese TWS' I've used that are IPX5 and above most of them are built built pretty well, the T5 is better IMO. I did have to send my first pair back, I don't recall why, might have been a button or connection issue. I did A/B testing on them using JVC Spiral Dots and the Duet's def. had better mids and more defined higs, but like many of the "audiophile" tuned, long battery life IEM's they don't have a lot of volume and the bass is dialed down. I've been keeping an eye on them to see if the price will drop, because I would really like to revisit them now that i've heard the TEVI and playing with an EQ.


----------



## d3myz

gibletzor said:


> Mpow T5 and Kissral R18 are both available in that price range on Amazon and are proven excellent units.


Has anyone compared the Kissral R18 with the SSK BT03? are they the same? the SSK is $29 on aliexpress.


----------



## HiFlight (Oct 7, 2019)

d3myz said:


> ......................................SNIP................. I'm curious to what other TWS' you are comparing them with. Tranya T1, Mpow T5, Anbes 359, Tranya T3, QCY T1C,  Trannya B530, 1more Stylish, Ofusho F16, Lypertek Tevi. that's what  i'm basing my comparisons on. $20-45 is currently the standard price for a decent to nice quality TWS' and the market is flooded with the QCC3020 and realtek chipsets with CVC, so now so we are seeing prices starting to drop.
> 
> I think they only have SBC and I believe based on what I google and @jasaero 's impressions it's the same realtek chip in the 359's.



TWS earbuds that I currently own:
Jabra Active Elite 65t,  Bomaker, Nillken Go,  Mavin AirX, B6, Back Bay Duet 50,  KZ-TWS, EOZ, TRN BT20, T20S and just today I received the Libratone Track Air+


----------



## d3myz

BigZ12 said:


> My Anbes 359 have AAC.


Well, i'll be damned. Mine do too. and so are the SSK's.


----------



## Grayson73

d3myz said:


> Well, i'll be damned. Mine do too. and so are the SSK's.



Is having AAC a good thing?  I'm still new to all of this.  Also, I updated my post with all of the Anbes 359 clones.  There might be 6!


----------



## Caipirina

Grayson73 said:


> Three more Anbes 359 clones?  JENTXON - https://www.amazon.com/Wireless-Bluetooth-Headphones-Sweatproof-Earphones/dp/B07QY77PN2/
> 
> MHCOZY - https://www.amazon.com/Bluetooth-Wireless-Earphones-Micphone-Canceling/dp/B07KFLM1KJ
> 
> ...


The MHCOZY and the Lenovo seem to have differently shaped buds.


----------



## d3myz (Oct 7, 2019)

HiFlight said:


> TWS earbuds that I currently own:
> Jabra Active Elite 65t,  Bomaker, Nillken Go,  Mavin AirX, B6, Back Bay Duet 50,  KZ-TWS, EOZ, TRN BT20, T20S and just today I received the Libratone Track Air+


With your lineup $45 def. seems reasonable. I'm on the opposite end, The most expensive pair I own are the TEVI's $(90). Soon to be the Soundcore Liberty 2 pro. I def. recommend checking out the Mpow T5, SSK BT03, and the Tranya B530's you may be surprised how good they sound for the $$.


----------



## d3myz

Grayson73 said:


> Is having AAC a good thing?  I'm still new to all of this.  Also, I updated my post with all of the Anbes 359 clones.  There might be 6!


I believe AAC has better sound quality than SBC and on a Mac you can force the bit rate higher, which is pretty cool. I think AAC is the default codec for Apple as well.


----------



## FrenchGuy

d3myz said:


> With your lineup $45 def. seems reasonable. I'm on the opposite end, The most expensive pair I own are the TEVI's $(90). Soon to be the Soundcore Liberty 2 pro. I def. recommend checking out the Mpow T5, SSK BT03, and the Tranya B530's you may be surprised how good they sound for the $$.


SSK BT03? Can fnd them on Amazon......


----------



## d3myz

Grayson73 said:


> Three more Anbes 359 clones?  JENTXON - https://www.amazon.com/Wireless-Bluetooth-Headphones-Sweatproof-Earphones/dp/B07QY77PN2/
> 
> MHCOZY - https://www.amazon.com/Bluetooth-Wireless-Earphones-Micphone-Canceling/dp/B07KFLM1KJ
> 
> ...


I can verify the Yineme's are not clones, they have a totally different sound signature.


----------



## d3myz

FrenchGuy said:


> SSK BT03? Can fnd them on Amazon......


Ali express  SSK BT03


----------



## Grayson73

FrenchGuy said:


> SSK BT03? Can fnd them on Amazon......



Sold out at Amazon currently.  https://www.amazon.com/SSK-Bluetooth-Headphones-Sweatproof-Microphone/dp/B07R8TPND5


----------



## Grayson73

Caipirina said:


> The MHCOZY and the Lenovo seem to have differently shaped buds.



Thanks, updated my post.


----------



## Grayson73

d3myz said:


> I can verify the Yineme's are not clones, they have a totally different sound signature.



Thanks, updated my post.  Maybe the only new discovery is the Jentxon then.


----------



## FrenchGuy

d3myz said:


> With your lineup $45 def. seems reasonable. I'm on the opposite end, The most expensive pair I own are the TEVI's $(90). Soon to be the Soundcore Liberty 2 pro. I def. recommend checking out the Mpow T5, SSK BT03, and the Tranya B530's you may be surprised how good they sound for the $$.


How is the noise isolation on the Mpow T5?

Thanks


----------



## d3myz

FrenchGuy said:


> How is the noise isolation on the Mpow T5?
> 
> Thanks


I think that depends on the tips you use. seems fine to me with my Spiral dots, the Med. is better than the Medium Small.


----------



## Slater

hifi80sman said:


> Ahh, read it wrong.  @Slater replied after your email and said it was the best $20 he's ever spent, but he was talking about something else.
> 
> Got too excited and went into Hypebeast mode.



Sorry for the confusion. I was referring to the SSK, which I bought from Amazon for $20.99 shipped.


----------



## toby23

In spite of this thread seemingly having turned into a private chat between a few people and nobody replying to my question, I bought the Sennheiser Momentum TW today. I'm a fussy audiophile and the sound on these is amazing with Amazon music HD. Not DAC+HD600 amazing but closer than I would have imagined possible. Pairing was simple and instant. Transparency mode just pauses the music which seems pointless. No battery issues so far. My favourite IEM out of many.


----------



## Slater

toby23 said:


> I'm a fussy audiophile...



None of us get are getting paid, and we don’t work for you. Sometimes questions slip through the cracks or go unanswered because people don’t see it or don’t know the answer. No need for snarky comments.


----------



## d3myz

Slater said:


> None of us get are getting paid, and we don’t work for you. Sometimes questions slip through the cracks or go unanswered because people don’t see it or don’t know the answer. No need for snarky comments.


Wait... You don't get paid to post? What i'm I trying to reach 500 for then? LOL.


----------



## d3myz

toby23 said:


> In spite of this thread seemingly having turned into a private chat between a few people and nobody replying to my question, I bought the Sennheiser Momentum TW today. I'm a fussy audiophile and the sound on these is amazing with Amazon music HD. Not DAC+HD600 amazing but closer than I would have imagined possible. Pairing was simple and instant. Transparency mode just pauses the music which seems pointless. No battery issues so far. My favourite IEM out of many.



Congratulations! It's always fun getting a new TWS'. IEM's are wired just FYI. The Momentum has been talked about ad infinitum here, maybe that's why no one commented on it. It does seem a lot of our discussions are in regards to what's new and coming up and what the best sounding, inexpensive TWS with the best features is etc. We are always interested to hear about new stuff or TWS' people have tested. reviewed or posted impressions. We like pics too. If you like the Momentum, you should check out the Lypertek Tevi, I've heard it's very similar and costs $90. I know how it feels to join a head-fi thread and no one respond to you, so I feel you man. We are a good group of dudes, the best way to get some group love is to ask about something after searching for it in the thread or try it out. Chances our one of us hopeless TWS fiends has it or has had it and we'll give you some super bias opinion about it. Hahaha....kidding, but no really. LOL.


----------



## d3myz

Grayson73 said:


> EDITED for those that are not clones.
> 
> Three more Anbes 359 clones?  JENTXON - https://www.amazon.com/Wireless-Bluetooth-Headphones-Sweatproof-Earphones/dp/B07QY77PN2/
> 
> ...


I appreciate your work on this, my man. Tribute to the King despite what @Caipirina  said this week about the Shanling.


----------



## rhsauer

HiFlight said:


> My Libratone Track Air+ arrived this morning.   It was about a 2 week journey as I ordered them from Amazon UK and had them shipped to a friend in Germany who forwarded them to me  here in FL, as Amazon UK does not deliver to the US.
> 
> At any rate, after charging (via wireless), pairing with my phone (instant) choosing the best-fitting tips and finally selecting my options from the Libratone app,  I have had a chance to spend some time listening to some of my favorite tidal selections.
> 
> ...



Thanks for this.  Can you confirm no AAC?


----------



## cwill

Anyone with the Kissral R18/Anbes 359/SSK use Android? And do you think using AAC makes any difference at all? I can't seem to hear a difference really.


----------



## Slater (Oct 7, 2019)

cwill said:


> Anyone with the Kissral R18/Anbes 359/SSK use Android? And do you think using AAC makes any difference at all? I can't seem to hear a difference really.



I think it really only makes a difference on Apple. You’re not the 1st person that has said that AAC doesn’t really do that great on Android.

Android (ie Snapdragons) seem fo take the AptX market cornered, which I wish was supported by Apple.

Why can’t these companies just get along


----------



## d3myz

Slater said:


> I think it really only makes a difference on Apple. You’re not the 1st person that has said that AAC doesn’t really do that great on Android.
> 
> Android (ie Snapdragons) seem fo take the AptX market cornered, which I wish was supported by Apple.
> 
> Why can’t these companies just get along


Preach! i'd kill to have AptX on an iphone.


----------



## HiFlight

rhsauer said:


> Thanks for this.  Can you confirm no AAC?



AFAIK, only SBC and AptX are supported.  As I have no Apple products, this was not a consideration for me.  AptX sounds really fine though.


----------



## d3myz

I just got an e-mail that my SoundCore Liberty 2 Pro's have shipped!! Man, This week just go REALLY long!


----------



## hifi80sman (Oct 7, 2019)

Slater said:


> I think it really only makes a difference on Apple. You’re not the 1st person that has said that AAC doesn’t really do that great on Android.
> 
> Android (ie Snapdragons) seem fo take the AptX market cornered, which I wish was supported by Apple.
> 
> Why can’t these companies just get along


AAC 100% sounds better via iPhone vs. Andriod.  Android uses Fraunhofer FDK AAC, while Apples uses their own proprietary Apple AAC engine.

That being said, with Amazon Music HD out, this will likely push aptX HD and LDAC more into the mainstream.  Apple should really get with the program and roll out streaming via Apple Lossless.  Amazon Music HD is $12.99 for Prime Members and can stream up to 3,730 kbps, 24-bit/192 kHz.  At that quality, I should be able to hear what my neighbor is up to.


----------



## TK33

toby23 said:


> In spite of this thread seemingly having turned into a private chat between a few people and nobody replying to my question, I bought the Sennheiser Momentum TW today. I'm a fussy audiophile and the sound on these is amazing with Amazon music HD. Not DAC+HD600 amazing but closer than I would have imagined possible. Pairing was simple and instant. Transparency mode just pauses the music which seems pointless. No battery issues so far. My favourite IEM out of many.



FYI Transparency Mode is set to stop the music by default but this can be changed in the app  I use mine on the train and often listen with transparency mode on so I can hear the announcements or the conductor coming


----------



## hifi80sman

d3myz said:


> I just got an e-mail that my SoundCore Liberty 2 Pro's have shipped!! Man, This week just go REALLY long!


Looking forward to your impressions.


----------



## Caipirina

d3myz said:


> I appreciate your work on this, my man. Tribute to the King despite what @Caipirina  said this week about the Shanling.


What did I say about the Shanling?


----------



## d3myz

They were the new king under $100


----------



## jasaero

d3myz said:


> They were the new king under $100



The "King" branding and the only sub-$100 ambient mode got me.  Ordered mine this weekend from the Hifigo site since they offered me a $5 deal and claimed they would ship right away.  I really want the ambient mode.  Sometimes I want to be tuned out, but sometimes I like to hear my tunes and be aware both at the same time!


----------



## Blueshound24 (Oct 8, 2019)

So I may have missed it, but has anyone compared the Shanling or other good quality TWS vs the Senn Momentum TWS? I would mostly be interested in sound quality comparisons between them. I don't care much about call quality, etc.

How do they compare with bass, mids, treble, dynamic sound, speed, warmth, bright, soundstage, depth, transparency, etc.

I like detailed, dynamic, semi bright sound with good bass, and should have good connectivity.

I appreciate the posts that talk about all the good buys for tws under $100, however I would be more inclined to go straight it to the top if needed to get the sound quality I want.


----------



## Veyska

Slater said:


> I think it really only makes a difference on Apple. You’re not the 1st person that has said that AAC doesn’t really do that great on Android.
> 
> Android (ie Snapdragons) seem fo take the AptX market cornered, which I wish was supported by Apple.
> 
> Why can’t these companies just get along


AAC sounds good enough on both TWS IEMs I've got but I'm also not rocking lossless files/streaming and generally use them in outdoors environments, so YMMV.  My ridiculous Bluetooth->FM adapter I have in my car (no AUX or Bluetooth) aside, AAC *is* the minimum I'd accept and would really rather AptX or better given the choice.  (I've also got a less common phone variety, so it's possible it's gone all hipster on me and decided to be better at music than it ought to be. )


----------



## D3soLaT3 (Oct 7, 2019)

I wonder if these are Anbes 359 clones? Can anyone tell from the shell?

EDIT: Nevermind. Says Bluetooth version 4.2


----------



## karloil

Caipirina said:


> Today I was TWS hunting in good ole' Singapore and would you believe that I did not buy a single thing?
> 
> First stop Jaben, they did NOT have the Shanling in store yet, though their website claims they will ship out their orders end of Sept. Instead I listened to the Lybertek Tevi and yes, they are on the bright / clarity / detailed side, for which I have my Uiisii  Did not spend too much time with them
> 
> ...



If you're still in SG, there are still a few shops to check-out.

The shop beside Jaben - AV One. You may have also missed LendMeUrEars at Adelphi. At Funan, there's a photography shop that also carry TWs - forgot the shop name. Have you also checked Zeppelin at SLS? It's a cool coffee/audio shop, they also have TWs for you to try.

Yeah, Stereo doesn't carry Shanling. For your Shanling needs, better stick with Jaben.


----------



## sanity8me

ricthaman said:


> So I've been using the CKS5TW for a few days now; time for some brief first impressions. I've added some real-life pics for your convenience.
> 
> *CONNECTIVITY*
> BT 5.0 is actually very stable. Sometimes, when connecting to a new device, the left earbud doesn't connect. A quick drop in the case, getting them out and auto-reconnect does the trick to fix it. I've had zero drop-outs in the meantime, so I'm very happy.
> ...



Thanks for your impressions. Surprised no one else has tried these bad boys.

Seems like the type of fun laid-back SQ I'm looking for, as long as the bass doesn't intrude on the mids.

Regarding your praising of its call quality, do you not experience the typical latency issues most TWS have? I see that it has HFP, but doesn't say what version on the product page. Qualcomm cVc (Clear Voice Capture) definitely seems interesting though...


----------



## gibletzor

d3myz said:


> With your lineup $45 def. seems reasonable. I'm on the opposite end, The most expensive pair I own are the TEVI's $(90). Soon to be the Soundcore Liberty 2 pro. I def. recommend checking out the Mpow T5, SSK BT03, and the Tranya B530's you may be surprised how good they sound for the $$.


Tranya B530 are my go-to for yard work.  They get loud with lots of bass and don't skimp on the mids and highs.  And they're comfortable and stay in place really well for me.


----------



## voicemaster

gibletzor said:


> Tranya B530 are my go-to for yard work.  They get loud with lots of bass and don't skimp on the mids and highs.  And they're comfortable and stay in place really well for me.



How is the tranya B530 for phone call? and how's the sound compared to KZ ZSN? I have galaxy buds and in my opinion, the sound is pretty good with "clear" setting, but phone call sucks so bad on it.


----------



## gibletzor

voicemaster said:


> How is the tranya B530 for phone call? and how's the sound compared to KZ ZSN? I have galaxy buds and in my opinion, the sound is pretty good with "clear" setting, but phone call sucks so bad on it.


Everyone I've spoken to while using the B530s couldn't tell that I was using a bluetooth device.   I have only made 1 call on my Galaxy Buds and got no complaints from it either.  For music and videos, I love the sound of both but the Gbuds are less bassy and fun but more "real"sounding, especially for dialogue and vocals.

It's really hard to compare a corded IEM to a TWS.  It's especially hard to beat a good budget hybrid IEM.  I'd say the ZSN beats both of them in just about every category except convenience.  I still find myself using my TWS more often though because they sound more than good enough and I hate cords!


----------



## voicemaster

gibletzor said:


> Everyone I've spoken to while using the B530s couldn't tell that I was using a bluetooth device.   I have only made 1 call on my Galaxy Buds and got no complaints from it either.  For music and videos, I love the sound of both but the Gbuds are less bassy and fun but more "real"sounding, especially for dialogue and vocals.
> 
> It's really hard to compare a corded IEM to a TWS.  It's especially hard to beat a good budget hybrid IEM.  I'd say the ZSN beats both of them in just about every category except convenience.  I still find myself using my TWS more often though because they sound more than good enough and I hate cords!



I have used my GBuds for phone calls many times before I got my Sabbat E12U and in quiet environment, they are not bad, but if you are in for example a supermarket, the microphone pick up a lot of background noise thus making making your voice sounds muffled. 
Here I am wishing that some company put BLON bl03 driver and tuning into a TWS.


----------



## toby23

d3myz said:


> Congratulations! It's always fun getting a new TWS'...


Appreciate your feedback, thanks for your time...


----------



## Caipirina

Slater said:


> No need for snarky comments.



I think we need WAY more snarky comments


----------



## Caipirina

d3myz said:


> They were the new king under $100


you confuse me with the other hoarder ... Bartig who runs scarbir   that ain't me


----------



## hifi80sman

Caipirina said:


> you confuse me with the other hoarder ... Bartig who runs scarbir   that ain't me


Come on @d3myz!  All the Euro guys aren’t the same!  Sheesh!


----------



## Caipirina (Oct 8, 2019)

karloil said:


> If you're still in SG, there are still a few shops to check-out.
> 
> The shop beside Jaben - AV One. You may have also missed LendMeUrEars at Adelphi. At Funan, there's a photography shop that also carry TWs - forgot the shop name. Have you also checked Zeppelin at SLS? It's a cool coffee/audio shop, they also have TWs for you to try.
> 
> Yeah, Stereo doesn't carry Shanling. For your Shanling needs, better stick with Jaben.






Thanks for all the pointers! Managed to swing by all of the above, but never really enough time, plus I don't really have that much on my 'must audition' list ... plus the fear that if I like one of the 300+$ TWS I might impulse buy and then terribly regret later ...


Funny thing though, the most 'impressive' audition I did was with the Bose Frames ... those BT sunglasses ... that is quite some 'cool' factor and they do sound impressive ... I just don't see much usage for them in my personal circumstances ... but for those who wear sunglasses all the time, might be interesting! (Someone mentioned earlier 'UPS drivers who are not allowed TWS or any other headphones) .... at 299SGD, did not buy 

So, once more, empty hands and untouched wallet  But I gave the friendly salesperson at Jaben my number in case the Shanling come in before week's end. We shall see ...

Bonus question for the local: Is there any used audio gear selling (like e-earphones in Tokyo, if you've ever been), saw some stuff at Jaben, could have been showroom models of amps .. not sure .. 

and, is there a seedy underbelly ('worse' than SLS) where they peddle copy pirate clones  So far the worst offenders I saw were at Valu$ 'fire sale', yes, that mainly cheap candy store, several models of airpod lookalikes for sub20SGD ...


----------



## Invalid

Has anyone here tried both the lypertek tevi and the shanling mtw100? Can’t decide which to get oh and any reviews on the soundcore liberty 2 pro’s yet?


----------



## Soreniglio

These Bomaker sound AMAZING, so rich and engaging.

They easily beat my previous QCY, Anbes and Creative Outlier, for real.


----------



## IamJon (Oct 8, 2019)

Invalid said:


> Has anyone here tried both the lypertek tevi and the shanling mtw100? Can’t decide which to get oh and any reviews on the soundcore liberty 2 pro’s yet?



There's a few reviews online all very positive but don't go into much sound quality detail:
https://www.forbes.com/sites/marksp...ty-pro-2-earbuds-are-true-wireless-champions/
https://thenextweb.com/plugged/2019...feature-packed-long-lasting-wireless-earbuds/
https://knowtechie.com/review-ankers-soundcore-liberty-2-pro-wireless-earbuds-are-almost-perfect/

Still waiting for my order to ship. Also got some KZ ZS10 pro's on order so can see how they compare.


----------



## karloil

Caipirina said:


> Thanks for all the pointers! Managed to swing by all of the above, but never really enough time, plus I don't really have that much on my 'must audition' list ... plus the fear that if I like one of the 300+$ TWS I might impulse buy and then terribly regret later ...
> 
> 
> Funny thing though, the most 'impressive' audition I did was with the Bose Frames ... those BT sunglasses ... that is quite some 'cool' factor and they do sound impressive ... I just don't see much usage for them in my personal circumstances ... but for those who wear sunglasses all the time, might be interesting! (Someone mentioned earlier 'UPS drivers who are not allowed TWS or any other headphones) .... at 299SGD, did not buy
> ...



For used items, Jaben has a few. But most are posted online. Most of the audio shops also sell some of their demo units, you can just ask them which ones. 

Have you tried Mustafa? They might carry a few really cheap TWS


----------



## oiac320

Hey, I've just got my Edifier TWS5. I must be honest to say that they aren't exactly as good as I expected but I think that I was expecting too much to be honest. 

My main IEM is from that banned chinese that's very similar to the KZ ZS6 and it's just so much better. Even with the first gen KZ Bluetooth cable.

But anyways. Connection is solid on my S10e and the independence of each bud is just so useful. AptX is also amazing compared to the first gen KZ cable and the battery is so long that I'm yet to drain them.

To conclude, I was expecting too much but these aren't bad. I guess I was just spoiled by some decent Chinese iems. 

Anyway. The only thing that really bothers me are the eartips my ear canals are a bit weird and only spinfits and foam tips worked properly for me. Does anyone know the size of the bores of the TWS5? I couldn't find online and the eartips I have are too large. The good thing is that the case fits custom eartips. I've tried some spinfits and foam and they fitted perfect in the buds inside the case.

Cheers!


----------



## clerkpalmer

Anyones kz e10 ship yet?


----------



## gibletzor

voicemaster said:


> I have used my GBuds for phone calls many times before I got my Sabbat E12U and in quiet environment, they are not bad, but if you are in for example a supermarket, the microphone pick up a lot of background noise thus making making your voice sounds muffled.
> Here I am wishing that some company put BLON bl03 driver and tuning into a TWS.


Yeah I've only used my Gbuds for calls in the house so far.  The Tranyas I've used outside with a light wind and street noise and everyone says it wasn't noticable until I asked about it, then they could hear it faintly if they listened for it.


----------



## The Apostle

d3myz said:


> I 100% agree. I use the JVC Spinfits and I have some Auvios, I really need to find a way to shorten the stems on the Auvios, I like them but they are too long. Also, the JVC's give a little more mids and highs in TWS's i've used them on, but i'm sure you already know that



Where are you finding the 359?  All I see are the 358 and 360.


----------



## Caipirina

clerkpalmer said:


> Anyones kz e10 ship yet?



Mine have been in the 'shipped' category for a while now, but I suspect they simply just pre-assigned a tracking number so I cannot back out of the order. But according to track info now it left country of origin on 10/7  ... sooo .. maybe next week I get it?


----------



## Blueshound24

Blueshound24 said:


> So I may have missed it, but has anyone compared the Shanling or other good quality TWS vs the Senn Momentum TWS? I would mostly be interested in sound quality comparisons between them. I don't care much about call quality, etc.
> 
> How do they compare with bass, mids, treble, dynamic sound, speed, warmth, bright, soundstage, depth, transparency, etc.
> 
> ...



Sorry for the re-post, hoping to get some input.


----------



## Caipirina

Soreniglio said:


> These Bomaker sound AMAZING, so rich and engaging.
> 
> They easily beat my previous QCY, Anbes and Creative Outlier, for real.




Has anyone found the Bomaker on AliX? I tried image search to no avail ... getting curious


----------



## smasherat (Oct 8, 2019)

Was wondering if I could get any recommendations on a TWS under $100.

I like Harman tuning. I also have an iPhone so I need it support AAC codec. Will be used strictly for commuting on train so it needs to isolate wel too. I see the tevi, tranya, mpow  t5 and sabbat e12 ultra being praised in here. Are any tuned to the harman target? I know the Galaxy buds are harman tuned but I heard it doesn’t play nice with an iPhone.

My current setup for mobile/portable use is the Moondrop KXXS and Fearless Audio S8F with ES100. Sometimes I’ll pair a KZ ZS10 Pro with the TRN BT3 as my mobile solution (tried paring with BT20S but felt they were uncomfortable)

Any recommends are appreciated. Thanks!


----------



## Caipirina

karloil said:


> Have you tried Mustafa? They might carry a few really cheap TWS



woah, have not been to Mustafa in 4 years  might give it a try


----------



## Mouseman

Caipirina said:


> Mine have been in the 'shipped' category for a while now, but I suspect they simply just pre-assigned a tracking number so I cannot back out of the order. But according to track info now it left country of origin on 10/7  ... sooo .. maybe next week I get it?


Nothing for me, yet -- I ordered the grey ones from MzAudio.


----------



## d3myz

gibletzor said:


> Everyone I've spoken to while using the B530s couldn't tell that I was using a bluetooth device.   I have only made 1 call on my Galaxy Buds and got no complaints from it either.  For music and videos, I love the sound of both but the Gbuds are less bassy and fun but more "real"sounding, especially for dialogue and vocals.
> 
> It's really hard to compare a corded IEM to a TWS.  It's especially hard to beat a good budget hybrid IEM.  I'd say the ZSN beats both of them in just about every category except convenience.  I still find myself using my TWS more often though because they sound more than good enough and I hate cords!


I've had the same feedback with the Tranya T3. Out of all the TWS' I have People tell me the sound the best on calls.


----------



## d3myz

Caipirina said:


> you confuse me with the other hoarder ... Bartig who runs scarbir   that ain't me


Sorry, my man. Your post was right below his.


----------



## d3myz

The Apostle said:


> Where are you finding the 359?  All I see are the 358 and 360.


AFIAK they are out of production. The best two Clones are the SSK BT03 and the Kissral R18. I don't own the Kissral, but I own the 359 and the SSK and they are Identical in build and Sound Quality.


----------



## d3myz

Here's another "do not buy"  Supology V16. Sound quality is BASSSSSS mids are meh and the high end is extremely rolled off. Basically they are muddy. The fit is kind of fun, but the ear guides seem out of place even though they are comfy and work well. The stems are kind of cheap plastic and pretty long. I was able to get the the left bud to seal and I could hear some driver flex while fitting it, but the right ear would not no matter what tips I tried. Other than that they are built well and the touch controls work great, connection is great, no volume control, but the Qualcomm CVC worked for calls. Metal case is cool but heavy and has a weird hinge. Save your money.


----------



## d3myz (Oct 8, 2019)

Anyone have experience with these TWS'? Earfun Free, Enacfire E18 plus and the Encafire Future Plus.


----------



## Grayson73

cwill said:


> Anyone with the Kissral R18/Anbes 359/SSK use Android? And do you think using AAC makes any difference at all? I can't seem to hear a difference really.



I'm using Android.  To my ears, it sounds better than the Mpow T5 which is using aptx.


----------



## cwill

Grayson73 said:


> I'm using Android.  To my ears, it sounds better than the Mpow T5 which is using aptx.


Well, to be fair, I think they sound WAY better than the T5's...AAC or not. I just can't tell a difference with AAC turned on or off.


----------



## hifi80sman

karloil said:


> For used items, Jaben has a few. But most are posted online. Most of the audio shops also sell some of their demo units, you can just ask them which ones.
> 
> Have you tried Mustafa? They might carry a few really cheap TWS


Out of curiosity, what is the return policy in Singapore for IEM/Headphones?  I know some places don't accept for "sanitary" reasons.


----------



## DrBrawler (Oct 8, 2019)

Kz e10 shipping info


----------



## hifi80sman

Blueshound24 said:


> Sorry for the re-post, hoping to get some input.


It sounds like you would enjoy the House of Marley Liberate Air.

I think they definitely fit with what you're looking for.
_"I like detailed, dynamic, semi bright sound with good bass, and should have good connectivity."_

Have you tried the Master & Dynamic MW07?


----------



## Grayson73

cwill said:


> Well, to be fair, I think they sound WAY better than the T5's...AAC or not. I just can't tell a difference with AAC turned on or off.



Ahh, yeah, I have no idea.  My phone identified aptx for the mpow T5, but didn't say anything when I used the SoundPeats TrueFree+ nor SSK BT03.


----------



## Blueshound24

hifi80sman said:


> It sounds like you would enjoy the House of Marley Liberate Air.
> 
> I think they definitely fit with what you're looking for.
> _"I like detailed, dynamic, semi bright sound with good bass, and should have good connectivity."_
> ...



The only tws I have tried was the tws600. And they would have been ok except for their universally perceived lack of bass. 

I will look into your recs. Thanks!


----------



## Grayson73

Grayson73 said:


> I received these and want to know if my impressions are the same as yours.
> 
> *SSK BT-03 (Anbes 359/Kissral R18) - https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07R8TPND5/*
> I thought these sounded great!  Detailed, airy, spacious, punchy bass, soundstage.
> ...



I spent another 3 hours with these.  They all sound 20% better with the Meelectronics double flange tips.  My favorites are the SSK BT-03.  I slightly prefer the SoundPEATS over the Mpow T5, only because I prefer 3D spacious sound.  The Mpow T5 is more narrow in comparison to the other two.


----------



## BigZ12 (Oct 8, 2019)

cwill said:


> Well, to be fair, I think they sound WAY better than the T5's...AAC or not. I just can't tell a difference with AAC turned on or off.


Here I go again with the SBC noise  I just had to...

Go to https://www.szynalski.com/tone-generator/ and play 20-120hz. First try AAC and then SBC. Listen to the left channel. With SBC you'll hear a kind of metallic noise. Remember, you need a little volume to hear it clearly.
That's what annoys me the most. I also think AAC sounds clearer, more detailed than SBC, but that is marginal.

The bass on many tracks from the Norwegian artist Kari Bremnes, does also clearly show this noise in the left channel with SBC. Actually it was her songs that first got my attention to the noise.


----------



## Ocelitgol

Can anyone confirm if Fostex TM2 has multipoint (connect two devices at a time)?


----------



## johnpage

Can anyone help give me a sense of quality difference between the new Shanling MTW100 and the Jabra 75t? I was trying to buy the Shanling yesterday but my Aliexpress account flagged my transactions as fraud. At least now my head-fi account was approved (long time lurker) and I can seek your opinion.

They are similarly sized and small which I like but the Jabra has 4 microphones which is making me deliberate a bit. 

For me TWE are mostly walks to work and phone calls. If I want to listen to music then the over ears are the go.

Is there a massive improvement in call quality and or worth the price differential? 

Shanling are $89 and 75t are $200. My thought was to buy the S and use it for a year and upgrade later.


----------



## Luchyres

johnpage said:


> Can anyone help give me a sense of quality difference between the new Shanling MTW100 and the Jabra 75t? I was trying to buy the Shanling yesterday but my Aliexpress account flagged my transactions as fraud. At least now my head-fi account was approved (long time lurker) and I can seek your opinion.
> 
> They are similarly sized and small which I like but the Jabra has 4 microphones which is making me deliberate a bit.
> 
> ...



You may also like the Plantronics  Backbeat 5100 for calls - my vote is the Shanling - lower investment and we'll see what happens afa Mic tech/improvments over the 75t in that year.


----------



## d3myz (Oct 8, 2019)

Hey Guys, Got the Kanoe and the Megivez T08 today.

Initial Impression vs. SSK BT03 is they very similar except the bass and low mids on the Kanoe are very boosted. It doesn't sound bad, but it takes away from the overall clarity you get with the SSK, which IMO has plenty of bass. Also, there's no F'ing volume control on the Kanoe! are you kidding me? It's an exact form factor clone of the SSK and Anbes, but it's black and Silver, looks awesome and it comes in the same cylinder Yingeme uses for the S3. I also compared them to the 1more Stylish, which I used to hate and now I love them, the soundstage on them is so good. Anyway, the Kanoe's are boomy, it's almost like they are crossed over at 60hz, i'm too lazy to test the frequencies, I used the spotify EQ to pull out almost all the 150hz and bump the 60hz down a touch and it still has a lot of kick but it made a huge difference.   No EQ 4.3/5     EQ'd 4.6/5


UPDATE: I just tested the Kanoe with aptX on my Mac. I have no idea why but it reduced the boominess of the bass a little, Def. sounded better, but still doesn't beat the SSK. Man if anything my SSK just keeps sounding better and better. I think i'm obsessed with the White. 

 

Megivez T08: Hmm.. well, I love the form factor, they fit really nicely in my ears. These have an 8mm driver, which I think is a first for me. It definitely sounds different. sound stage is really wide, but almost too wide and the tuning is fine. They don't sound bad, but they don't sound great either and there's nothing about them that stands out. There's no volume control, they don't get very loud and the highs are pretty rolled off.  It's too bad, I really like the fit. The charging case is small and the earbuds are actually a little larger than the F16's. Connection is great, calls are fine and the controls are good too. Build quality is as good, except the nozzle has no bezel on it, so i could see waxy eartips falling off. 4/5


----------



## cwill

d3myz said:


> Hey Guys, Got the Kanoe and the Megivez T08 today.
> 
> Initial Impression vs. SSK BT03 is they very similar except the bass and low mids on the Kanoe are very boosted. It doesn't sound bad, but it takes away from the overall clarity you get with the SSK, which IMO has plenty of bass. Also, there's no F'ing volume control on the Kanoe! are you kidding me? It's an exact form factor clone of the SSK and Anbes, but it's black and Silver, looks awesome and it comes in the same cylinder Yingeme uses for the S3. I also compared them to the 1more Stylish, which I used to hate and now I love them, the soundstage on them is so good. Anyway, the Kanoe's are boomy, it's almost like they are crossed over at 60hz, i'm too lazy to test the frequencies, I used the spotify EQ to pull out almost all the 150hz and bump the 60hz down a touch and it still has a lot of kick but it made a huge difference.   No EQ 4.3/5     EQ'd 4.6/5
> 
> ...


Darnit. I was hoping the Kanoe was tuned the same as the Anbes so we could tell how much of a difference APTX makes (if any).


----------



## d3myz

I feel you man. I was really disappointed myself. Sighs.... Now I have to unbox them again and test AptX on my Mac.
They don't sound bad, but they are boomy as hell. I love bass, but it has to be somewhat balanced and accurate. What do you guys say? Layered? I dunno, These Hit HARD and not in the way the Tranya T3 does. If you have a good EQ, unlike my stupid Iphone, They could be real winners, but the SSKs highs and balance just sounds way better to me.


----------



## hifi80sman

d3myz said:


> Hey Guys, Got the Kanoe and the Megivez T08 today.
> 
> Initial Impression vs. SSK BT03 is they very similar except the bass and low mids on the Kanoe are very boosted. It doesn't sound bad, but it takes away from the overall clarity you get with the SSK, which IMO has plenty of bass. Also, there's no F'ing volume control on the Kanoe! are you kidding me? It's an exact form factor clone of the SSK and Anbes, but it's black and Silver, looks awesome and it comes in the same cylinder Yingeme uses for the S3. I also compared them to the 1more Stylish, which I used to hate and now I love them, the soundstage on them is so good. Anyway, the Kanoe's are boomy, it's almost like they are crossed over at 60hz, i'm too lazy to test the frequencies, I used the spotify EQ to pull out almost all the 150hz and bump the 60hz down a touch and it still has a lot of kick but it made a huge difference.   No EQ 4.3/5     EQ'd 4.6/5
> 
> ...


All of the MEBUYZ and MEGIVEZ have never impressed.


----------



## jasaero (Oct 8, 2019)

hifi80sman said:


> All of the MEBUYZ and MEGIVEZ have never impressed.



You know the Megivez seems to be the same as some other more normal named ones a couple of the guys have reviewed in the thread.  They seemed to like that version.  Wonder if the normal named one is better or if me and you are just pickier than the guys with the websites...haha?

EDIT: It's the Wavefun XPods 3 that seem to be the same thing?  Anyone verified the Megivez are the same thing?  Look identical.

https://www.scarbir.com/tws/wavefun-x-pods-3-review
https://medium.com/@vstolpner/wavefun-xpods3-value-chi-fi-with-premium-internals-b2e87ca1b3de


----------



## Caipirina

Got to finally audition the Powerbeats Pro yesterday ... and darn they sound smooth ... really wanna have ... but ... i cannot really stomach paying what could buy me 8 cheapo chi fi  ... it does not sound THAT much better .. .actually, i think my Bonola sound about the same ... maybe 3% less, but is that worth the price difference? Sure, that H1 chip is impressive the first time you pair them ... 

Oh, for you US folks, while I was checking reviews (while listening) i saw that several outlets dropped the price of the Powerbeats to 199$ (Walmart, Amazon and even Apple themselves ... seasonal special?) ... 
One thing I found in reviews was a complaint about erratic connectivity issues while running .. this is a major turn off ... maybe its an isolated case (though they got a replacement from apple which was only somewhat better) ... so .. I guess I will try those B10 TWS lookalikes from AliX for 28$ instead


----------



## clerkpalmer

Caipirina said:


> Got to finally audition the Powerbeats Pro yesterday ... and darn they sound smooth ... really wanna have ... but ... i cannot really stomach paying what could buy me 8 cheapo chi fi  ... it does not sound THAT much better .. .actually, i think my Bonola sound about the same ... maybe 3% less, but is that worth the price difference? Sure, that H1 chip is impressive the first time you pair them ...
> 
> Oh, for you US folks, while I was checking reviews (while listening) i saw that several outlets dropped the price of the Powerbeats to 199$ (Walmart, Amazon and even Apple themselves ... seasonal special?) ...
> One thing I found in reviews was a complaint about erratic connectivity issues while running .. this is a major turn off ... maybe its an isolated case (though they got a replacement from apple which was only somewhat better) ... so .. I guess I will try those B10 TWS lookalikes from AliX for 28$ instead



I love my PB pro. I've sung their praises here before. Sq is excellent. smooth is a good word. When you compare them back to back to something like the tfz no.3 over bt20, they fall behind a bit but they are right up there in sq with the best of them. Combine that with excellent battery life and rock solid fit they are a winner at 200 bucks. Definitely beat anything I've heard in that price bracket.  Maybe only fall short of the mw07 actually 

As an aside, the liberty pros are getting positive early reviews  I have high hopes for them. still waiting on my shipping notification which is annoying since they were available for Thursday delivery on amazon this am  I'm cutting them a little slack since the preorder price was 50 less.


----------



## FYLegend

d3myz said:


> I can verify the Yineme's are not clones, they have a totally different sound signature.


So you got the Yineme not the G-Wack? I recall your post had a photo of the G-Wack and you mentioned it did not have USB-C which seems odd as Yineme BE30 did have it, according to their site and reviewers. What seems to have happened was that Yineme was the former listing on that page and carried over the reviews, but the G-Wack took over the listing afterwards.

Letscom BE30 seems legit although some of them have been sent in unbranded boxes by sellers claiming to be Anbes. The "Air" supposedly sounds the same as the Anbes 359 but if it does, I'm actually kinda disappointed as the Coolhere UFO had much brighter and detailed highs, but at the cost of clipping (with piano tracks especially), suggesting most of the alterations are done digitally beyond the limits of the driver.

Wondering if anyone here has tried BE30R? Seems Lenovo H1 is based on them - the housings are triangular not unlike Galaxy Buds or Tranya T3. The OEM just inquired me again about them but it seems they want it purchased in bulk. The Bluetooth chipset is "JL" which I haven't heard of before.

https://www.alibaba.com/product-det...482.html?spm=a2700.8443308.0.0.27853e5fn6ETcH

https://fccid.io/2ATPE-BE30R/User-Manual/User-manual-4424638

Also wondering about Jabees Beeing and BNA1. The latter has a similar shell to BE30R but with touch controls. The case seems to be microUSB although the specs say Type C, which might mean it was changed. Unfortunately neither has ambient sound.
https://www.alibaba.com/product-det...h-Earphone-Touch-Control-TWS_62006571619.html


----------



## d3myz

FYLegend said:


> So you got the Yineme not the G-Wack? I recall your post had a photo of the G-Wack and you mentioned it did not have USB-C which seems odd as Yineme BE30 did have it, according to their site and reviewers. What seems to have happened was that Yineme was the former listing on that page and carried over the reviews, but the G-Wack took over the listing afterwards.
> 
> Letscom BE30 seems legit although some of them have been sent in unbranded boxes by sellers claiming to be Anbes. The "Air" supposedly sounds the same as the Anbes 359 but if it does, I'm actually kinda disappointed as the Coolhere UFO had much brighter and detailed highs, but at the cost of clipping (with piano tracks especially), suggesting most of the alterations are done digitally beyond the limits of the driver.
> 
> ...


I had 2 versions of the Yineme's,This one was sold by G-Wack on amazon I believe it was called the S30 or SE30. Here is the other one the BE32.


----------



## FYLegend

d3myz said:


> I had 2 versions of the Yineme's,This one was sold by G-Wack on amazon I believe it was called the S30 or SE30. Here is the other one the BE32.


Yeah I don't see Yineme actually mentioned anymore, but the reviews on the first link are mostly describing the Yineme BE30, which does have USB-C and comes in 3 colours. It does not have the battery LED.

It seems you can still purchase it directly from their site: https://yineme.com/products/ufo-wir...ear-earphone-sport-in-ear-noise-cancel-iphone


----------



## Caipirina

Speaking of lookalikes ... this looks oddly familiar  

 

Curious why anyone thought THIS sony look is worth copying ...


----------



## d3myz

Mpow T5 is a lightning deal today at Amazon in the US for $35. https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07SR1FTD4?th=1&psc=1


----------



## Caipirina

Hoco question:
 Anyone know these / have these (ES 25)? Surprised to find them here (Singapore @ Mustafa, thanks again @karloil ) at pretty much the same price as AliExpress ... 
Which of course is perfect for impulse buys  

 

So far I could only find some videos in Thai & Vietnamese, the VN video has some helpful comments (in English by some Russian user it seems)  in case one has pairing headaches ... but no idea about sound quality ... 
The red variant looks kinda pretty


----------



## chinmie

Caipirina said:


> Speaking of lookalikes ... this looks oddly familiar
> 
> 
> 
> Curious why anyone thought THIS sony look is worth copying ...



there's even a fake copy of them, with similar case, fake copy of the box too, really cheap plastic, and really bad sound. obviously the ANC/ambient mode are nonexistent.


----------



## Muessig

I've recently got some Lypertek Tevi TWS earbuds and I'm loving them especially with the low profile foam tips that are included. Anyone know where I can get more of these? Do comply do a low profile version?


----------



## BigZ12

Muessig said:


> I've recently got some Lypertek Tevi TWS earbuds and I'm loving them especially with the low profile foam tips that are included. Anyone know where I can get more of these? Do comply do a low profile version?


I messaged Lypertek, since I love the low-profile Flexfit foam tips myself. They said they were out of stock, but it will be possible to order them in a little while. They keep me updated.


----------



## d3myz

My replacement Tevi's are out for delivery, i'm anxiously eager. Please god, let them sound better than the last pair. I also bought my 3rd pair of T5's this morning on amazon for $35. I've been using my SSK's everyday since I got them and I'm happy to say the sound has improved, they now sound exactly like my 359's.


----------



## Muessig

Amazing news! I asked them if they are developing an app for the Tevi's and they said they are expecting to release an Android and iPhone app some time in November.

For the past couple of years I've been using my Shure SE215's and so when I decided to take the plunge on the Tevi's after I'd read here so much about them having little to no low end I was extremely pleasantly surprised when my Tevi's matched my SE2125's for bass. Delighted with these Tevi's just need some tips now!


----------



## mattedialdoc

d3myz said:


> My replacement Tevi's are out for delivery, i'm anxiously eager. Please god, let them sound better than the last pair. I also bought my 3rd pair of T5's this morning on amazon for $35. I've been using my SSK's everyday since I got them and I'm happy to say the sound has improved, they now sound exactly like my 359's.



Yeah let us know. I sent the TEVI back. To me they are basically a MPOW T5 with fabric on the case and some minor tuning. And w the MPOW only $35 bucks......?


----------



## Rob E. (Oct 9, 2019)

d3myz said:


> I feel you man. I was really disappointed myself. Sighs.... Now I have to unbox them again and test AptX on my Mac.
> They don't sound bad, but they are boomy as hell. I love bass, but it has to be somewhat balanced and accurate. What do you guys say? Layered? I dunno, These Hit HARD and not in the way the Tranya T3 does. *If you have a good EQ, unlike my stupid Iphone*, They could be real winners, but the SSKs highs and balance just sounds way better to me.



Here's are two incredibly good (imho) EQ apps for your iphone, same dev... https://apps.apple.com/us/app/highamp-mp3-music-player/id1359487085 - or - https://apps.apple.com/us/app/highstereo-mp3-music-player/id1164322969
10 or 30 band, + preset & programmable curves, with independent rotary Bass & Treble controls for on the fly granular adjustments.
The highlight being the rotary controls - quickly adjustable on top of an EQ curve.

(some marketing prose from the dev)...
- Better sounds quality with Bass, Treble and Equalizer
- All music collections including Youtube, Apple Music, iPod library, files in your PC and files in Clouds.
- Supports various audio formats such as mp3, flac, ape, opus, ogg etc.
- 100K radio stations.

This app's transformed my own TWS experience. I've no affiliation with the product, .and if there are  better EQ apps out there for the iphone, somebody please tell me. I'd like to know about it. Fwiw.


----------



## BigZ12

mattedialdoc said:


> Yeah let us know. I sent the TEVI back. To me they are basically a MPOW T5 with fabric on the case and some minor tuning. And w the MPOW only $35 bucks......?


You've stated this quite some times now.

Once again: Quote from Marco at Lypertek. 
"Of course not the re-brand for MPOW models. We made the own tooling and tunes the sound by ourselves to meet our requirements.  If you have the MPOW model, you can compare the sound by yourself.  Then you will know. 
The tooling means the mold to inject the plastic parts.  You can see the upper cover  of TEVI is unique from the market."

And what about the graphene diaphragm and battery time? Mpow doesn't have the graphene, that Lypertek says is present on the Tevi.

Do you think they're lying?


----------



## hifi80sman

d3myz said:


> My replacement Tevi's are out for delivery, i'm anxiously eager. Please god, let them sound better than the last pair. I also bought my 3rd pair of T5's this morning on amazon for $35. I've been using my SSK's everyday since I got them and I'm happy to say the sound has improved, they now sound exactly like my 359's.


Looking forward to your impressions of the replacement pair.  If you think they are bass light/non-existent, I know I definitely will.


----------



## mattedialdoc

BigZ12 said:


> You've stated this quite some times now.
> 
> Once again: Quote from Marco at Lypertek.
> "Of course not the re-brand for MPOW models. We made the own tooling and tunes the sound by ourselves to meet our requirements.  If you have the MPOW model, you can compare the sound by yourself.  Then you will know.
> ...



Wow. Ok I’ll bite:

No I’m not saying “they’re lying”. I’m not saying anything except my “opinion”. And that’s all it is. I actually come to this forum as an admitted newbie..and thus I have a fresh unadulterated perspective that hopefully can add something to the community.

I could flip it around and say “do you work for Lypertek “? But that would be rude , and that’s not my intent.


----------



## hifi80sman (Oct 9, 2019)

Rob E. said:


> Here's are two incredibly good (imho) EQ apps for your iphone, same dev... https://apps.apple.com/us/app/highamp-mp3-music-player/id1359487085 - or - https://apps.apple.com/us/app/highstereo-mp3-music-player/id1164322969
> 10 or 30 band, + preset & programmable curves, with independent rotary Bass & Treble controls for on the fly granular adjustments.
> The highlight being the rotary controls - quickly adjustable on top of an EQ curve.
> 
> ...


Are you SURE they support Apple Music?  Doesn't look like it does or any music from streaming services, and *maybe *only files you purchase from YouTube, Apple, etc.  I find the marketing to be misleading if that's the case.


----------



## BigZ12 (Oct 9, 2019)

mattedialdoc said:


> Wow. Ok I’ll bite:
> 
> No I’m not saying “they’re lying”. I’m not saying anything except my “opinion”. And that’s all it is. I actually come to this forum as an admitted newbie..and thus I have a fresh unadulterated perspective that hopefully can add something to the community.
> 
> I could flip it around and say “do you work for Lypertek “? But that would be rude , and that’s not my intent.


I don't think that would be rude to ask. My answer is I don't. And maybe they are lying... what do I know? That's why I ask you, because you're pretty sure it's "just" a fabric coated Mpow T5.
When I saw the charging case, and the shape of the buds (and a forum member telling me the similarity of the Tevi and T5), I asked Marco at Lypertek: "Can you confirm if the TEVI is a rebrand version of the MPOW T5? What is similar, and what is different if so?"
His answers were in the post you answered to.

So that's why I asked you my question, and it wasn't my intent to be rude either.


----------



## mattedialdoc

BigZ12 said:


> I don't think that would be rude to ask. My answer is I don't. And maybe they are lying... what do I know? That's why I ask you, because you're pretty sure it's "just" a fabric coated Mpow T5.
> When I saw the charging case, and the shape of the buds (and a forum member telling me the similarity of the Tevi and T5), I asked Marco at Lypertek: "Can you confirm if the TEVI is a rebrand version of the MPOW T5? What is similar, and what is different if so?"
> His answers were in the post you answered to.
> 
> So that's why I asked you my question, and it wasn't my intent to be rude either.



Gotcha. Yeah from my exam it’s a fabric cover and a USB C on the case as the changes. But you are right, there are several other things different on the Tevi. I didnt mean to disparage the product. TBH my ears don’t have the ability at this point to distinguish all the nuances that you pros can...so I could just be an idiot.


----------



## hifi80sman

mattedialdoc said:


> Wow. Ok I’ll bite:
> 
> No I’m not saying “they’re lying”. I’m not saying anything except my “opinion”. And that’s all it is. I actually come to this forum as an admitted newbie..and thus I have a fresh unadulterated perspective that hopefully can add something to the community.
> 
> I could flip it around and say “do you work for Lypertek “? But that would be rude , and that’s not my intent.


I think you both have good points that can be true simultaneously.

Many smaller companies contract out manufacturing to a third party, while also using off-the-shelf design schematics with minor tweaks (within an allowable range for the chosen design), which is why many designs are similar, albeit not exactly the same.  This isn't necessarily a bad thing, since there are a slew of customization options that can render very different outcomes.

It's like ARM Cortex, whose architecture is licensed for use by various companies, where those same companies will then market different products, yet many of the internals are the same.  I'm not saying the T5 and TEVI are the same by any means, however, I seriously doubt Lypertek invented everything from scratch.  But does that really matter if they sound great?  No, it doesn't.  Does it really matter that I used pre-made sauce in my "homemade" pasta, where I added different ingredients to my liking?  No, it doesn't.


----------



## BigZ12

mattedialdoc said:


> Gotcha. Yeah from my exam it’s a fabric cover and a USB C on the case as the changes. But you are right, there are several other things different on the Tevi. I didnt mean to disparage the product. TBH my ears don’t have the ability at this point to distinguish all the nuances that you pros can...so I could just be an idiot.


Yes forgot about the usb-c as well. 

I am no pro at all myself, but I have good ears, I like good sound and good music. Love the Tevis, but haven't heard the Mpow T5. 
My question to you was only because you seemed so sure about your findings, while the info from Lypertek (and the specs) says otherwise. 
It was maybe a little direct formulated, that's just because you have written it a couple of times. Without me actually thinking you had an agenda...


----------



## Nechoya

I lost a few hours going through the most recent 80 pages of this thread and it didn't help me make a decision regarding which headphones to buy at all. Are you guys comparing them, or just picking which ones to add to your collections?  

Seriously though, I'm in the market for a TWS headset and I'm completely lost. I bought mpow M5/T5 from Amazon and returned them the next day because they suck compared to my over the ear headphones(nothing special, ISK HD9999), are very bulky(not that big of a deal) and would stop playing for half a second every now and then. Those headphones are widely recommended, even in this thread, so I need some advice which(if any) headphones should I try next. So far I'm leaning towards Tranya B530(I've contacted them and they'll be coming to more European Amazon stores in the near future) but I'm far from convinced. Are there any better sounding TWS headphones? All I want is good sound quality and a half decent mic so I can speak through them in the office. Would be great if they connected to 2 devices like the Jabra ones. All the rest would be good to have but not a necessity. 

Are there such headphones in ~50-60 dollar price range, or do I have to go for a more renowned brand for that? How does sound quality compare to Jabra Elites? I'm considering just saving up and buying those instead of wasting time looking around for a possibly nonexistant perfect pair of  chinese TWS headphones.


----------



## Blueshound24 (Oct 9, 2019)

hifi80sman said:


> It sounds like you would enjoy the House of Marley Liberate Air.
> 
> I think they definitely fit with what you're looking for.
> _"I like detailed, dynamic, semi bright sound with good bass, and should have good connectivity."_
> ...


 
I have not tried the Master & Dynamic MW07.


Blueshound24 said:


> The only tws I have tried was the tws600. And they would have been ok except for their universally perceived lack of bass.
> 
> I will look into your recs. Thanks!




@hifi80sman, I forgot to ask, were you saying that the M&D MW07 would fit what I would like? _*"I like detailed, dynamic, semi bright sound with good bass, and should have good connectivity"
*_
Maybe the Tevi's sound would be up my alley?

Meanwhile I have ordered the Shanling MTW100 and hoping that might satisfy my preferences.


----------



## hifi80sman (Oct 9, 2019)

Nechoya said:


> I lost a few hours going through the most recent 80 pages of this thread and it didn't help me make a decision regarding which headphones to buy at all. Are you guys comparing them, or just picking which ones to add to your collections?
> 
> Seriously though, I'm in the market for a TWS headset and I'm completely lost. I bought mpow M5/T5 from Amazon and returned them the next day because they suck compared to my over the ear headphones(nothing special, ISK HD9999), are very bulky(not that big of a deal) and would stop playing for half a second every now and then. Those headphones are widely recommended, even in this thread, so I need some advice which(if any) headphones should I try next. So far I'm leaning towards Tranya B530(I've contacted them and they'll be coming to more European Amazon stores in the near future) but I'm far from convinced. Are there any better sounding TWS headphones? All I want is good sound quality and a half decent mic so I can speak through them in the office. Would be great if they connected to 2 devices like the Jabra ones. All the rest would be good to have but not a necessity.
> 
> Are there such headphones in ~50-60 dollar price range, or do I have to go for a more renowned brand for that? How does sound quality compare to Jabra Elites? I'm considering just saving up and buying those instead of wasting time looking around for a possibly nonexistant perfect pair of  chinese TWS headphones.


You may want to wait for the Master & Dynamic MW07 Plus.  They should be an improvement over the MW07, which has great sound, but 2.5 hours of realistic battery life (maybe close to 3 if you listen at lower volumes).  It also has multipoint, so I can connect to both my phones at the same time (listening on one, receiving calls from the other).  I'd imagine the MW07 Plus will retain multipoint, but that remains to be seen.  It's billed as having far better battery life, BT 5. (vs. 4.2), ANC, and better mics (original only has 1 mic) for calls.

Also, I really enjoy the WF-1000XM3, which can be EQd to your taste.

In terms of SQ, I don't think any of the Jabra TWS' come anywhere near the Master & Dynamic or Sony.


----------



## hifi80sman

Blueshound24 said:


> @hifi80sman, I forgot to ask, were you saying that the M&D MW07 would fit what I would like? _*"I like detailed, dynamic, semi bright sound with good bass, and should have good connectivity"*_


Yep, I think they would.  For most people that have tried the top-tier TWS, most will agree the MW07 are tops in SQ.


----------



## Blueshound24

hifi80sman said:


> Yep, I think they would.  For most people that have tried the top-tier TWS, most will agree the MW07 are tops in SQ.




Now I am questioning my decision to order the S. MTW100 and thinking the MW07 or Tevi might have been a better choice. Indecisions...


----------



## d3myz

mattedialdoc said:


> Yeah let us know. I sent the TEVI back. To me they are basically a MPOW T5 with fabric on the case and some minor tuning. And w the MPOW only $35 bucks......?


Finally some well deserved realism about the TEVI. LOL. I i'd take 4 pairs of SSK's over the TEVI all day. I already have 2 T5's.


----------



## The Apostle

How would you compare the SSK vs the T5?  

Neither of them have an app for fine tuning, correct?


----------



## d3myz

hifi80sman said:


> Looking forward to your impressions of the replacement pair.  If you think they are bass light/non-existent, I know I definitely will.


Unfortunately it's the same sound, I switched to the Auvio tips and they have a touch more bass, but man... when every song you play has louder, drums, vocals and guitars than the bass, that's a clear indication to me that this is not a real Flat or Audiophile tuning. I mean I can hear the kick drum and the bass guitar, but they are not prominent. Treble and mid lovers with love these, but forget about turning them up loud.


----------



## d3myz

Muessig said:


> Amazing news! I asked them if they are developing an app for the Tevi's and they said they are expecting to release an Android and iPhone app some time in November.
> 
> For the past couple of years I've been using my Shure SE215's and so when I decided to take the plunge on the Tevi's after I'd read here so much about them having little to no low end I was extremely pleasantly surprised when my Tevi's matched my SE2125's for bass. Delighted with these Tevi's just need some tips now!


I probably don't know what i'm talking about here, but when I try to EQ the TEVI's in Spotify, it sounds bad. I'm assuming the TEVI's app will be better?


----------



## The Apostle

Searched the thread for the name AIKELA and didn't see anything.  Are these rebrands of something else?  

Wireless Earbuds,AIKELA TWS Bluetooth 5.0 Headphones 3500mAh with LED Charging Dock 140H Playtime 3D Stereo Sound Noise Canceling IPX7 Waterproof in-Ear Headset Earphones with Built-in Mic for Sports https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07VP2ZV8S/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_i_8LLNDbG42YT04


----------



## hifi80sman

d3myz said:


> Unfortunately it's the same sound, I switched to the Auvio tips and they have a touch more bass, but man... when every song you play has louder, drums, vocals and guitars than the bass, that's a clear indication to me that this is not a real Flat or Audiophile tuning. I mean I can hear the kick drum and the bass guitar, but they are not prominent. Treble and mid lovers with love these, but forget about turning them up loud.


As a drummer, I assume the drums are not accurately represented, eh?


----------



## d3myz

hifi80sman said:


> As a drummer, I assume the drums are not accurately represented, eh?


Well, no. they sound pretty good, but not life like, I'd say the Anbes/SSK's are a more accurate representation. because a real kick drum has more low end and a snare drum has low mid range then just attack.


----------



## Luchyres (Oct 9, 2019)

Just received my Anker Soundcore Liberty Pro 2!

Initial impressions:
Packaging is very, very nice.
The case is way smaller and nicer feeling than I had anticipated - there is even a cover for the USB C port. It's not much bigger than the Anbes case. 

I'm not going to rush into sound impressions - and I need to download the tuning app - but so far I am VERY excited.

 I'm going to edit to add photos if I can.


----------



## clerkpalmer

Luchyres said:


> Just received my Anker Soundcore Liberty Pro 2!
> 
> Initial impressions:
> Packaging is very, very nice.
> ...



When did you preorder if I may ask? Mine haven't shipped yet.


----------



## johnpage

Anyone have any insight into the ease of returning items in San Francisco through Aliexpress? Where is the ‘local warehouse’ - I’m worried it’s locally 100km away. Their customer support wasn’t helpful. 

I’m half sold on the new Shanling but want to try them out first...


----------



## d3myz

BigZ12 said:


> Yes forgot about the usb-c as well.
> 
> I am no pro at all myself, but I have good ears, I like good sound and good music. Love the Tevis, but haven't heard the Mpow T5.
> My question to you was only because you seemed so sure about your findings, while the info from Lypertek (and the specs) says otherwise.
> It was maybe a little direct formulated, that's just because you have written it a couple of times. Without me actually thinking you had an agenda...


I need to get you some T5's and some SSK's because, my man. The Tevi's aren't that great IMO.  The sound really good, but have all the bass sucked out of them like a twinkie with no filling. (American Reference LOL) I was shopping for Sub woofers once and someone told me, Have you ever heard anyone say, "Whoa! that's too much bass!" no, because it's the easiest thing to turn down with the least amount of cost to the music, but you can't add bass where it doesn't exist. At least not with the EQ's I have. I'm willing to be wrong about that. Whether or not that's true is objective, but I can guarantee you can make a T5 sound very close to the Tevi, but why would you want to, I want a Tevi with more bass, not a ridiculous amount, but just enough to feel it.


----------



## Luchyres (Oct 9, 2019)

clerkpalmer said:


> When did you preorder if I may ask? Mine haven't shipped yet.



I ordered on 9/26 at 10:41AM PST. (I also live right near where they're shipping from in CA - so it took 1 day)

Confirming: Volume Control - I set it to long-press

App is nice, EQ settings work - but I'm charging them fully for now and will update as I refine the settings and go through some of my fav tracks on Tidal.

I am VERY pleased thus far. Will update with comparison photos of Anbes, Nuarl, and LPro2
Edit: sorry - some fumbles here with the photos.


----------



## d3myz

The Apostle said:


> How would you compare the SSK vs the T5?
> 
> Neither of them have an app for fine tuning, correct?


Buy them both. They are quite different. The T5 has a lot more mid range, but it's a warm mid range, but the earbud also has good highs, not as good as the SSK. The t5 is ipx7, I shower with mine. It has a more narrow soundstage than the SSK, but for me it's much more comfortable to wear for longer periods of time and it's got a qualcomm chip with CVC 8.0. I have no ideal if the realtek chip in the ssk does,  but I haven't had any complaints. They really are two of the best, sub $100 TWS'. I have mentioned this before, but I have 2 pairs of T5's and 3 pair of SSK's 2 are Anbes 359's.


----------



## Rob E.

hifi80sman said:


> Are you SURE they support Apple Music?  Doesn't look like it does or any music from streaming services, and *maybe *only files you purchase from YouTube, Apple, etc.  I find the marketing to be misleading if that's the case.



Unfortunately, it IS an imperfect world my friend. Easy enough to see that these EQ apps (full-featured as they are) don't work with some streaming services like YouTube or Apple Music. However, if you do have a substantial music library that you maintain on your iphone, and I'd guess that you just might, then, you'll find that's where these apps really shine. Not trying to convince you of the merits of an equalizer, but in the world of compromised audio and inexpensive TW earbuds, these digital tools can make a world of difference, and they're not all created equal. The iTunes player (while not bad in itself, and much better on a Mac with benefit of EQ), just smothers the sound on an iphone, Not even Boom compares to these apps. Set-up a few EQ curves depending upon which set of earbuds you're using and then use the rotary controls to fine tune the sound. All of a sudden, you may have to re-think what you thought some of these TW earbuds sounded like. For me, it was transformative, but I sound like a salesman, and I'm (really) not trying to sell you anything, although I think they are superior offerings. Only mentioning because I wanted to give back something I felt worthwhile to you guys on this thread. I've learned a lot from reading here. You may have found the marketing misleading, but it probably wasn't intentional. If $1.99 for the ad free version isn't worth it to you, you can always check them out for free - with minimal ad BS. You might even be impressed.


----------



## hifi80sman

Luchyres said:


> I ordered on 9/26 at 10:41AM PST. (I also live right near where they're shipping from in CA - so it took 1 day)
> 
> Confirming: Volume Control - I set it to long-press
> 
> ...


In addition to general impressions, can you comment on how consistent they are in both amplitude and frequency response?  While generally good, I have had some Anker products in the past where is one side had better bass response than the other (experienced this with the Liberty Neo and Life NC).


----------



## webvan

d3myz said:


> Buy them both. They are quite different. The T5 has a lot more mid range, but it's a warm mid range, but the earbud also has good highs, not as good as the SSK. The t5 is ipx7, I shower with mine. It has a more narrow soundstage than the SSK, but for me it's much more comfortable to wear for longer periods of time and it's got a qualcomm chip with CVC 8.0. I have no ideal if the realtek chip in the ssk does,  but I haven't had any complaints. They really are two of the best, sub $100 TWS'. I have mentioned this before, but I have 2 pairs of T5's and 3 pair of SSK's 2 are Anbes 359's.



I don't have the T5s  but I'm in two minds about the Anbes/SSK due to their fit. I've trip tip rolling (SpinFit CP100, CP360, Sony Hybrids, Whirlwind, etc...) but have to come back to the original tips in L size that give great sound when pushed in the canal. Isolation isn't great but acceptable. Do you maybe have to push them in too since you mention not being able to wear them for longer periods ?


----------



## The Apostle

d3myz said:


> Buy them both. They are quite different. The T5 has a lot more mid range, but it's a warm mid range, but the earbud also has good highs, not as good as the SSK. The t5 is ipx7, I shower with mine. It has a more narrow soundstage than the SSK, but for me it's much more comfortable to wear for longer periods of time and it's got a qualcomm chip with CVC 8.0. I have no ideal if the realtek chip in the ssk does,  but I haven't had any complaints. They really are two of the best, sub $100 TWS'. I have mentioned this before, but I have 2 pairs of T5's and 3 pair of SSK's 2 are Anbes 359's.


Much appreciation for your response.


----------



## Blueshound24

Muessig said:


> Amazing news! I asked them if they are developing an app for the Tevi's and they said they are expecting to release an Android and iPhone app some time in November.
> 
> For the past couple of years I've been using my Shure SE215's and so when I decided to take the plunge on the Tevi's after I'd read here so much about them having little to no low end I was extremely pleasantly surprised when my Tevi's matched my SE2125's for bass. Delighted with these Tevi's just need some tips now!




That just goes to show how differently  people hear. I think SE215's are basically all Bass and mid-range, muddy with rolled off treble.


----------



## Tavleen Suri

Sony wf 1000xm3 refurbs are 150 on eBay now. Guess a lot of ppl are returning their units. Friend had brought the refurb unit from the same seller a while back for 180 and he said he received a new unit. He couldn't tell if it had ever been used . they come with 90 day warranty . just letting the community know.


----------



## HiFlight (Oct 9, 2019)

I will add several more comments on my Libratone Track Air+ since I have been using them in a variety of conditions over the last couple days.

Firstly, the ANC is outstanding.  I have been using the Smart setting which adjusts the ANC automatically according the the environment.  It is seamless and works like a dream.  My car, which has a fair amount of road noise now sounds like a Bentley.  Very quiet.  This quiet background really permits small musical details to be readily apparent.  SQ is very well balanced tonally and all instruments and vocals sound lifelike.   Connectivity has been solid, both at home and in my car, however I visited the local Best Buy store and experienced a lot of interference.  I can't begin to imagine all the signals bouncing around in that store!

Fit is the best of any of my TWS phones.  They simply disappear once in place and provide quite good isolation even without  being connected to Bluetooth.  The biggest drawback is the limited amount of things you can do via the touchpads.  You have your choice of 2 out of the following three options.  Play/Pause, Next song, ANC/Hear-through.  Playtime per charge is pretty close to the advertised 6 hours.


----------



## Barusu Lamperouge

How are powerbeats pro clones B10? For $28, is it worth the gamble?


----------



## Blueshound24

Can somebody please tell me if the Shanlings are a warm earphone with rolled off highs or not?

I don't want a headphone like Senn's HD650 with the Senn veil.


----------



## d3myz

clerkpalmer said:


> When did you preorder if I may ask? Mine haven't shipped yet.


I also ordered mine on the 26th at 11AM MST. Mine will be here tomorrow. SO EXCITED!


----------



## karloil

Caipirina said:


> Hoco question:
> Anyone know these / have these (ES 25)? Surprised to find them here (Singapore @ Mustafa, thanks again @karloil ) at pretty much the same price as AliExpress ...
> Which of course is perfect for impulse buys
> 
> ...



You're welcome! So did you get one?


----------



## d3myz

webvan said:


> I don't have the T5s  but I'm in two minds about the Anbes/SSK due to their fit. I've trip tip rolling (SpinFit CP100, CP360, Sony Hybrids, Whirlwind, etc...) but have to come back to the original tips in L size that give great sound when pushed in the canal. Isolation isn't great but acceptable. Do you maybe have to push them in too since you mention not being able to wear them for longer periods ?


The most comfortable tips for me are the Auvio's from Radioshack, I use the Mediums and only push them in as far as I have to for a seal. My MS spiral dots work well too, but they start to bug me after a an hour or so because I have to push them in further.


----------



## Luchyres

Anker Liberty Pro 2 - Luchyres *Super Simple and to the point novice Review*

Initial impression: Great - USB-C, Hybrid driver, best form factor case I've used, nice packaging. Nothing glaringly wrong with the sound. 

But what do we care about first and foremost? After some critical listening - here are my criticisms

SOUND: 
-  Big Time BASS. These headphones have what I think of when others talk about an inflated bass response and a "consumer" sound signature. It doesn't repulse me as I suspect it would with some, but I like bassy songs and I even find this a bit much at times (FLAT EQ)* I do not think anyone will wish that they delivered more bass (depth or volume) but I think it could be cleaner and decay faster. 

- In contrast, the mids and highs seem to somehow be somewhat veiled and yet peak-y. In listening to a playlist of randomly selected songs from my recent Tidal likes - I came to the conclusion that the artists' voices often sound slightly distant/veiled and a bit compressed - lacking the spaciousness and presence that I really enjoy.** My impression is that the crossover from the DD to the BA has a slight dip and then a spike in the treble (high-hat, metal, some voices) leading to a somewhat recessed treble (relative to the bass) that can be difficult to enjoy when corrected with EQ or turned above a certain volume. NOTE: I am somewhat treble sensitive (IMHO) and prefer neutral -> basshead DD/hybrid headphones that can EQ for my sound sig and bass pref.(Current main setup: EX-800ST with tape mod) 

*Changing to the Vocal Boost EQ greatly improved the presence of artists' voices on some songs. It gave me hope to try the "sound ID" feature. Changing to Spinfit tips was also an improvement. 

After testing my sound preference - I was given a graph that somewhat confirmed the impressions I had formed of the sound signature - my response indicated that I wanted a boost from about 500kHZ to 1200kHZ, a dip around 1.6kHZ, and then a boost from about 2800kHZ up** - toning down the bass and bringing the mids and highs more forward - excluding the trebly peak around 1.6kHZ. 



hifi80sman said:


> In addition to general impressions, can you comment on how consistent they are in both amplitude and frequency response?  While generally good, I have had some Anker products in the past where is one side had better bass response than the other (experienced this with the Liberty Neo and Life NC).



**I tried to listen for diffferences between the buds for you @hifi80sman and I felt that, if anything, the left was slightly louder - but that it could also just be my hearing, or a tip issue. After the hearing test for Sound ID - it showed I wanted a slight boost on the right bud in the highs in particular - take that with a grain of salt, but was interesting to me. 

I decided to do a comparison between my former fav TWS (Nuarl NT01AX) and the Liberty Pro 2. New to this, and my taste and hearing are definitely subjective (scratchpad notes): 

Playlist (TIDAL) https://tidal.com/browse/playlist/13c7207b-4f85-4625-b70f-cbe6ff136693 

Since Six - Key Glock 
LPro2: veiled top end, plenty of bass
Nuarl: Bass is tighter - less of a treble peak - voice more present/enjoyable to listen to.

M.e. - Gary Numan
Lpro2: Warm, with treble roll off. Emphasis on drums and bass guitar line  - the guitar/string plucks sound flat and congested - lackings some tonality
Nuarl: Less bass. Guitar more textured - the plucking has dimensionality/is more forward and interesting

Milk - Kings of Leon
LPro2: white noise of track is a little pronounced, voice sounds good.... but not intimate or textured.
Nuarl: Bass is cleaner/crisper decay - voice more present

3 Years Sober - 99Punks (or w/e Vic Mensa is doing these days)
LPro2 - lots of bass - peaky guitar/singing - sounds cluttered and resides in the trebel peak - hard to listen to at volume. 
Nuarl - spacious, forward, textured, still pleasant to listen to even though he's yelling

Floor Seats - A$AP Ferg
LPro2 - Treble/yell is abrasive - hard to listen to
Nuarl- almost too much - but textured, present and intimate in a way that makes riding that edge good if you EQ to your pref (I tune the treble down a bit on the Nuarl)

Black Truck - Mereba 
LPro2: Veiled, Bassy
Nuarl: I can get lost in her voice and the layering and the bass. It's a whole different song. 

Overall? 
I really like: The case, the comfort, the call quality (did well in a windy dog park), the price ($108 shipped for me - early bird), 
Pretty good: Sound, admittedly, I enjoyed the bass presence on some of my rap tracks, the app
Dislike: If I'm being picky - I want a manual EQ in the app. The treble peak and slight veiling.


What have I tried in the past? 
Syllable S101, Anbes 359, Sony 1000xm3, MTW, MPOW T5, Earin M2

Current Fav: Nuarl NT01AX

I'm very curious to hear others' impressions (@clerkpalmer ) as I don't really know how my opinion compares to others...

I'll sleep on it and see what I think over the next few days - this was a relatively quick review session. 

Interest to hear Trn T200 impressions and to see what the MW07Plus and Go bring to the table!


----------



## AtariPrime

Found some fun info about the Urbanista Athens earbuds. They launch sometime in the next few days.

Qualcomm 3020
Bluetooth 5.0

Plenty of pics and info in the link.

https://fccid.io/2AJD8-ATHENS


----------



## Caipirina

karloil said:


> You're welcome! So did you get one?



Nope, just 'because it's there, looks nice and is not silly overpriced' was not reason enough .. even at 40USD from Ali I would never really consider those (I am getting better at impulse control) ... plus I am hoping that maybe Jaben still gets the Shanling by tomorrow


----------



## RobinFood

Luchyres said:


> Anker Liberty Pro 2 - Luchyres *Super Simple and to the point novice Review*
> 
> Initial impression: Great - USB-C, Hybrid driver, best form factor case I've used, nice packaging. Nothing glaringly wrong with the sound.
> 
> ...



Looks like I don't have to make a purchase then. My current favorite is also the Nuarl NT01AX. 

I was looking for a replacement because of the hiss, but a recent update made the hiss go down from a loudness of 6 out of 10 to about 2 out of 10. Since updating they are all I have used this week, even for videos.


----------



## Nechoya

hifi80sman said:


> You may want to wait for the Master & Dynamic MW07 Plus.  They should be an improvement over the MW07, which has great sound, but 2.5 hours of realistic battery life (maybe close to 3 if you listen at lower volumes).  It also has multipoint, so I can connect to both my phones at the same time (listening on one, receiving calls from the other).  I'd imagine the MW07 Plus will retain multipoint, but that remains to be seen.  It's billed as having far better battery life, BT 5. (vs. 4.2), ANC, and better mics (original only has 1 mic) for calls.
> 
> Also, I really enjoy the WF-1000XM3, which can be EQd to your taste.
> 
> In terms of SQ, I don't think any of the Jabra TWS' come anywhere near the Master & Dynamic or Sony.


Those are WAY over my budget, sadly. Twice as expensive as Jabra Elites and even those were a stretch. Guess I won't be listening to music on walks anytime soon then.


----------



## hifi80sman

Luchyres said:


> Anker Liberty Pro 2 - Luchyres *Super Simple and to the point novice Review*
> 
> Initial impression: Great - USB-C, Hybrid driver, best form factor case I've used, nice packaging. Nothing glaringly wrong with the sound.
> 
> ...


Excellent impressions.  Doesn't sound like they are a game changer, but for $99, sounds like they are pretty good.

What did you think of the Sound ID?  Did it work or was it more of a gimmick?


----------



## Luchyres

RobinFood said:


> Looks like I don't have to make a purchase then. My current favorite is also the Nuarl NT01AX.
> 
> I was looking for a replacement because of the hiss, but a recent update made the hiss go down from a loudness of 6 out of 10 to about 2 out of 10. Since updating they are all I have used this week, even for videos.



I didn't even think to try to find an app to update the Nuarl until you mentioned it, so thank you! Do you know what else may have improved?


----------



## Luchyres

hifi80sman said:


> Excellent impressions.  Doesn't sound like they are a game changer, but for $99, sounds like they are pretty good.
> 
> What did you think of the Sound ID?  Did it work or was it more of a gimmick?



Thank you, sir!

SoundID worked better than I expected to help one customize the sound Sig. However, I'd prefer a 12 band eq fully in my control after it made its rec for fine tuning.


----------



## DigDub

And so the Cambridge Audio Melomania 1 is in...


----------



## BigZ12 (Oct 10, 2019)

d3myz said:


> I need to get you some T5's and some SSK's because, my man. The Tevi's aren't that great IMO.  The sound really good, but have all the bass sucked out of them like a twinkie with no filling. (American Reference LOL) I was shopping for Sub woofers once and someone told me, Have you ever heard anyone say, "Whoa! that's too much bass!" no, because it's the easiest thing to turn down with the least amount of cost to the music, but you can't add bass where it doesn't exist. At least not with the EQ's I have. I'm willing to be wrong about that. Whether or not that's true is objective, but I can guarantee you can make a T5 sound very close to the Tevi, but why would you want to, I want a Tevi with more bass, not a ridiculous amount, but just enough to feel it.


I have the Anbes 359, the "originals" with Anbes printed on the case. And I still have the QCY T2C. (Sold/returned all the others I've bought, like the Senn' MTW, B&O E8 2.0, Tiso i4 etc)

After all the discussions I had to test the 3 TWS I still own with all the tips I have in my drawer. (Mandarines by Symbio, Comply Foam, Flexfit, Spinfits (Cp100Z etc), and several stock silicone tips for different in-ear headset I've owned)

I used quite some time listening and changing the tips.
Tevi: First of all, the Flexfit I've boasted about, don't match the best with my Tevi. Neither does the stock tips. The best for bass was with a medium size Symbio, but it was a bit harsh/sibilant? in the highs. And it didn't fit the case for charging.
Best overall was a silicone tip I don't know where it came from  (see pics). It gives me plenty of bass, punchier and deeper than the Flexfit for ex., brilliant vocals/mids and detailed highs without any sibilance.
Anbes/QCY: Matching the Anbes and QCY with tips were easy. Getting a good fit and seal with those two is easier than with the Tevi. Actually went for the Tevi stock silicone tips for the QCY, and one of the Spinfits for the Anbes.
I could pick 4-5 tips for both of them, since fit, seal and sound was very similar with several tips. Very different as to the Tevi.

Sound and bass.
Anbes (and also the QCY) has more bass compared to the Tevi. Without a doubt.
BUT with the right tip, I would pick the Tevi every time. It's much more open and detailed, soundstage is wider than most TWS and there's more than enough bass. Really there is. And the bass is playing with "PRaT". (Pace, rythm and timing)
Maybe I like the more balanced sound than you do, as especially the Anbes sound bass heavy and muddled in comparison, in my ears. I actually like the sound with the QCY better than Anbes.

I've been listening to the Tevis when I write this, with all kinds of music styles, and they sound excellent with everything. With more than enough bass. Again, in my ears and to my taste. 
  

Edit: These are my settings for my Sony WH-1000XM3. I guess that show my taste in sound settings too. I cannot listen to them with the default setting.


----------



## webvan

d3myz said:


> The most comfortable tips for me are the Auvio's from Radioshack, I use the Mediums and only push them in as far as I have to for a seal. My MS spiral dots work well too, but they start to bug me after a an hour or so because I have to push them in further.


Thanks, well no RatShacks in my current neighborhood (actually didn't they all close?) so can't give the Auvio's a try. I guess I'll have to import some Spiral Dots (JVC right ?) at some point. My problem with the Anbes is that regardless of the tip (and I'd have to say the stock ones work best) I only get a good seal/SQ when I tuck them slightly inside/bottom of my ear but with (light) movement they tend to pop out


----------



## Bartig

Invalid said:


> Has anyone here tried both the lypertek tevi and the shanling mtw100? Can’t decide which to get oh and any reviews on the soundcore liberty 2 pro’s yet?


The Lypertek should be coming my way. Will definitely compare them intensively.



Soreniglio said:


> These Bomaker sound AMAZING, so rich and engaging.
> 
> They easily beat my previous QCY, Anbes and Creative Outlier, for real.


Hmm... maybe I should pull the trigger.


----------



## BobJS

I live in the Samsung ecosystem (as opposed to Apple) and would like to make 2 points related to that:

1.  Not sure if this is real, or a result of expectation bias, but I've found that, all considered, among my TW collection, those that use aptx tend to sound better than those using AAC.  This would be consistent with what I've read here that AAC is not implemented as well in Android as it is in Apple products.  So, going forward, I'm not considering buying anything that doesn't support aptx.  This eliminates the wf-1000xm3 for example, which supports SBC and AAC but not APTX.  Would be interested if others could confirm or refute my hypothesis here.

2.  I've discovered that I can assign the music app (really, just a controller) on my Galaxy watch to the double press function of one of the buttons, and therefore bring it up quite quickly and easily.  Once there, I can control the volume of the music player on my phone which is quite handy for those TWE that don't have integrated volume control (like YOU, House of Marley Liberate Air).  I suspect this can be accomplished with other smart watch/phone combos as well.  Makes it easier than grabbing the phone from my pocket or wherever if I'm in the middle of something. Just wanted to throw that out there.


----------



## willyk

BobJS said:


> I live in the Samsung ecosystem (as opposed to Apple) and would like to make 2 points related to that:
> 
> 1.  Not sure if this is real, or a result of expectation bias, but I've found that, all considered, among my TW collection, those that use aptx tend to sound better than those using AAC.  This would be consistent with what I've read here that AAC is not implemented as well in Android as it is in Apple products.  So, going forward, I'm not considering buying anything that doesn't support aptx.  This eliminates the wf-1000xm3 for example, which supports SBC and AAC but not APTX.  Would be interested if others could confirm or refute my hypothesis here.
> 
> 2.  I've discovered that I can assign the music app (really, just a controller) on my Galaxy watch to the double press function of one of the buttons, and therefore bring it up quite quickly and easily.  Once there, I can control the volume of the music player on my phone which is quite handy for those TWE that don't have integrated volume control (like YOU, House of Marley Liberate Air).  I suspect this can be accomplished with other smart watch/phone combos as well.  Makes it easier than grabbing the phone from my pocket or wherever if I'm in the middle of something. Just wanted to throw that out there.



BobJS,
Since you are in the Samsung domain you probably know this, but I thought I'd mention anyway that I've had awesome results over the years using Samsung's "Adapt Sound" feature that (IMO) accurately compensates for your personal hearing deficiencies.  I am a former professional musician (the loud stuff) and I am, let's say, at the point in life where hearing loss is a thing - so it's a double whammy for me.  I LOVE that feature.  Also, I am not above saying that sometimes I turn on Dolby Atmos for an especially articulated sound stage.  That's probably blasphemy to say here, but hey, I said it.


----------



## RobinFood

Luchyres said:


> I didn't even think to try to find an app to update the Nuarl until you mentioned it, so thank you! Do you know what else may have improved?



I am not sure. I sent Nuarl an email wondering if they could do a firmware update for lights blinking when in standby mode, as most Chinese pairs don't blink after connecting. I thought I would complain about the hissing again for good measure, and they told me they fixed the hissing and that I can update my set with the app.

FIrst thing I thought was that the hiss is still there, but it is low enough now that it doesn't interfere with music that has quiet parts or videos. I think my tinnitus is louder than the hiss now, before it was completely masking it.

It makes a big difference for classical music with soft parts that grow, I find. Instruments used to compete with the hiss.


----------



## Ocelitgol

willyk said:


> BobJS,
> Since you are in the Samsung domain you probably know this, but I thought I'd mention anyway that I've had awesome results over the years using Samsung's "Adapt Sound" feature that (IMO) accurately compensates for your personal hearing deficiencies.  I am a former professional musician (the loud stuff) and I am, let's say, at the point in life where hearing loss is a thing - so it's a double whammy for me.  I LOVE that feature.  Also, I am not above saying that sometimes I turn on Dolby Atmos for an especially articulated sound stage.  That's probably blasphemy to say here, but hey, I said it.





BobJS said:


> I live in the Samsung ecosystem (as opposed to Apple) and would like to make 2 points related to that:
> 
> 1.  Not sure if this is real, or a result of expectation bias, but I've found that, all considered, among my TW collection, those that use aptx tend to sound better than those using AAC.  This would be consistent with what I've read here that AAC is not implemented as well in Android as it is in Apple products.  So, going forward, I'm not considering buying anything that doesn't support aptx.  This eliminates the wf-1000xm3 for example, which supports SBC and AAC but not APTX.  Would be interested if others could confirm or refute my hypothesis here.
> 
> 2.  I've discovered that I can assign the music app (really, just a controller) on my Galaxy watch to the double press function of one of the buttons, and therefore bring it up quite quickly and easily.  Once there, I can control the volume of the music player on my phone which is quite handy for those TWE that don't have integrated volume control (like YOU, House of Marley Liberate Air).  I suspect this can be accomplished with other smart watch/phone combos as well.  Makes it easier than grabbing the phone from my pocket or wherever if I'm in the middle of something. Just wanted to throw that out there.



I can confirm this with my experience only. At least on my S8+, AAC sounds worse than on iPad. 
Thank you for the smartwatch tip, although I still prefer being able to assign the double-tap to something else like Next Song. It's quicker for me to press the watch's buttons than reaching my ears sometimes. 



willyk said:


> BobJS,
> Since you are in the Samsung domain you probably know this, but I thought I'd mention anyway that I've had awesome results over the years using Samsung's "Adapt Sound" feature that (IMO) accurately compensates for your personal hearing deficiencies.  I am a former professional musician (the loud stuff) and I am, let's say, at the point in life where hearing loss is a thing - so it's a double whammy for me.  I LOVE that feature.  Also, I am not above saying that sometimes I turn on Dolby Atmos for an especially articulated sound stage.  That's probably blasphemy to say here, but hey, I said it.



Can you go in detail what Dolby Atmos does on Samsung? What are the changes? I might need to reflash my phone to test out the feature


----------



## karloil

Caipirina said:


> Nope, just 'because it's there, looks nice and is not silly overpriced' was not reason enough .. even at 40USD from Ali I would never really consider those (I am getting better at impulse control) ... plus I am hoping that maybe Jaben still gets the Shanling by tomorrow



good for you! and it's your lucky day, they just posted on their FB page that the Shanlings are already in! I might also drop by tomorrow to have a listen.


----------



## Caipirina

karloil said:


> good for you! and it's your lucky day, they just posted on their FB page that the Shanlings are already in! I might also drop by tomorrow to have a listen.


Argh, why didn't he call me??? I was so close by today ... and tomorrow I will be quite busy, but will try to make time for that.


----------



## karloil (Oct 10, 2019)

Caipirina said:


> Argh, why didn't he call me??? I was so close by today ... and tomorrow I will be quite busy, but will try to make time for that.



Might just have forgotten you


----------



## 05stisilver

Does anyone have the Powerbeats Pro and the Sony WF-1000XM3? I would like to know which you prefer as far as sound quality. I am/will be using an iPhone with these.


----------



## Caipirina

karloil said:


> Might just have forgotten you



Yeah, the nice sales guy was a bit confused in general .. I called his phone while in shop so he has my number ... half hour later he calls me 'I got a missed call from this number?'  

Interesting combo offers ... was just looking up the "1MORE Lightning Active Noise Cancellation Dual Driver" ...  reviews on Amazon are not that great though .. and appears to be an older model (pre-iPhone8)


----------



## clerkpalmer

05stisilver said:


> Does anyone have the Powerbeats Pro and the Sony WF-1000XM3? I would like to know which you prefer as far as sound quality. I am/will be using an iPhone with these.



Close call SQ wise.  I find the PB Pro to suit my tastes very well.  They are very punchy and dynamic without going over the top.  The Sony sound good too.  I would probably base my decision on whether you need ANC versus sweatproofing.  Also, the PB Pro fit me like a dream but the Sony fit was fussy.  My $200 would go to the PB pro particularly since you are on Ios.


----------



## willyk

stormers said:


> Can you go in detail what Dolby Atmos does on Samsung? What are the changes? I might need to reflash my phone to test out the feature



Dolby Atmos is a digital processing feature made popular for movie soundtracks, but it can be used for any audio content.  Dolby Atmos becomes available on my Note 8 when the content is Atmos "enabled".  I often listen to Google Music and the content there enables this feature.  It's also available when I use Samsung Music to play a local mp3 or FLAC file.

As with most digital processing schemes, the designers went for a specific "effect".  For me, Atmos does the expected enhancement of high and low ends, but it does so in a subtle fashion.  Additionally, it creates a atmosphere (hence the name) of listening in a good room.  There's space added and an articulation and placement of instruments and voices in that space.  Again, for me, it can make listening to certain music that is well-recorded rather exciting and engaging.  It's pure ear candy.

But as with all of this, it's totally subjective - so it might be a bad experience for you.  Plus, it's clearly not going for a total flat response, it's going for fun.  It can make my T5's and B530's sound very alive and exciting.  Combining Adapt Sound with Dolby Atmos works for much of the music I listen to.

Hope this helps!


----------



## Mouseman

DigDub said:


> And so the Cambridge Audio Melomania 1 is in...


Can you post a copy of the case when you get a chance, and I'll look forward to your overall impressions. It looks very similar to those Earin TWS buds, at least in form factor, but then again there are a bunch of buds out there that are similar.


----------



## Slater (Oct 10, 2019)

d3myz said:


> The most comfortable tips for me are the Auvio's from Radioshack, I use the Mediums and only push them in as far as I have to for a seal. My MS spiral dots work well too, but they start to bug me after a an hour or so because I have to push them in further.



I use Auvios on both my SSK and QCY QS1. I love em.


----------



## Ocelitgol

willyk said:


> Dolby Atmos is a digital processing feature made popular for movie soundtracks, but it can be used for any audio content.  Dolby Atmos becomes available on my Note 8 when the content is Atmos "enabled".  I often listen to Google Music and the content there enables this feature.  It's also available when I use Samsung Music to play a local mp3 or FLAC file.
> 
> As with most digital processing schemes, the designers went for a specific "effect".  For me, Atmos does the expected enhancement of high and low ends, but it does so in a subtle fashion.  Additionally, it creates a atmosphere (hence the name) of listening in a good room.  There's space added and an articulation and placement of instruments and voices in that space.  Again, for me, it can make listening to certain music that is well-recorded rather exciting and engaging.  It's pure ear candy.
> 
> ...


Thank you!
I'm definitely open to new things and considering I'm using TRN BT20S + Chi-Fi, it feels less "guilty" to use it


----------



## jasonb

I've been going wireless for everything. I added a FiiO BTA10 Bluetooth adapter to my M50x, and I just ordered a Radsone ES100 that I'm going to attach to my Q701 with a cable as short as possible.


----------



## 05stisilver

clerkpalmer said:


> Close call SQ wise.  I find the PB Pro to suit my tastes very well.  They are very punchy and dynamic without going over the top.  The Sony sound good too.  I would probably base my decision on whether you need ANC versus sweatproofing.  Also, the PB Pro fit me like a dream but the Sony fit was fussy.  My $200 would go to the PB pro particularly since you are on Ios.



Thank you for your feedback. I was/am interested in the PBP because of the IOS but the connectivity issues scare me a bit. I saw that ebay has the WF-1000xm3 manufacturer refurb's for $150 so that kind of caught my eye as well. But these would be my running earbuds so PBP it is (I didn't realize the Sony didn't have any IPX rating).


----------



## clerkpalmer

05stisilver said:


> Thank you for your feedback. I was/am interested in the PBP because of the IOS but the connectivity issues scare me a bit. I saw that ebay has the WF-1000xm3 manufacturer refurb's for $150 so that kind of caught my eye as well. But these would be my running earbuds so PBP it is (I didn't realize the Sony didn't have any IPX rating).



No IPX and no fit wings or stabilizers.  I don't think they would be a good choice for running.  I think you made the right choice.  Report back when you get them and let us know what you think of the SQ.  I think you will be satisfied.


----------



## d3myz

Slater said:


> I use Auvios on both my SSK and QCY QS1. I love em.


You're the one who told me about them.


----------



## Caipirina (Oct 10, 2019)

Got to test the Joyroom T05 today which retail on AliX for 25-30$
The setting was less than ideal (busy / loud mall kiosk) but here are my brief impressions. Look & built of the buds is pretty impressive (at that price), the case looks cheap though. Pairing was easy and fit was nice.
But the sound quality was pretty garish: disappointing  bass and the mids came across as harsh. not recommended


----------



## The Apostle

What are you guys using for Bluetooth settings, besides aptx?

AVRCP version:
Audio sample rate:
Audio bits per sample:
LDAC codec:

Does any of that even matter?


----------



## Slater (Oct 10, 2019)

Has anyone ever seen this one? It has *detachable* ear hooks, which would be great for strenuous exercise I would imagine.



Other than the hooks, it has all of the typical features, Bluetooth 5.0, AAC, IPX rated, touch controls, etc. From the number sold, they seem quite popular.


----------



## gibletzor

d3myz said:


> Guys, Someone please drop $21 and buy these so I can get a second opinion. I've had 2 pair, one had a shoddy charging case and wouldn't seat well, but man, I keep coming back to them, they fit nicely and sound great, Controls are excellent and the soundstage is huge. volume is on the left only, 2 clicks up and 3 down. and the buttons are really easy to press, so the don't dig in to your ear drums.  I have no idea why they have the same model listed at 3 different prices, but I bought the $29.99 for review and then the $20.99 and they are identical.They def. have a v-shape tuning, but the bass is surprisingly textured and very responsive, solid mids and bright treble, they sound fantastic.



I got my Lystar J29s yesterday.  I have been listening to them for about the last hour or so and I would agree on most of your points.  The sound quality reminds me a lot of my Tranya B530 with a little less bass oomph.  Great highs and mids and quality bass.  I also like that I don't have to shove them in my ears or try to pinch them between thumb and finger to articulate the buttons, but I still prefer touch buttons like my Gbuds and Tranyas.  My only complaint is the stock eartips.  In my ears they slowly push themselves out over the course of 15 minutes or so, even if I'm not moving around.  I think they're just too shallow.  I put some Spinfit CP100Z on them and they are staying put a lot better and sound pretty much the same.  Definitely a good buy for $21!


----------



## hifi80sman

BobJS said:


> I live in the Samsung ecosystem (as opposed to Apple) and would like to make 2 points related to that:
> 
> 1.  Not sure if this is real, or a result of expectation bias, but I've found that, all considered, among my TW collection, those that use aptx tend to sound better than those using AAC.  This would be consistent with what I've read here that AAC is not implemented as well in Android as it is in Apple products.  So, going forward, I'm not considering buying anything that doesn't support aptx.  This eliminates the wf-1000xm3 for example, which supports SBC and AAC but not APTX.  Would be interested if others could confirm or refute my hypothesis here.


Confirmed.  I have several TWS' and Headphones that support both AAC and aptX, so when toggling between AAC and aptX on Android, there is a noticeable difference when A/B the same source material.  Obviously, the better the source is and the TWS/Headphones are, the clearer the picture will be.  This was a blind test, as I had someone else toggle back and forth while I was in critical discernment mode.


----------



## d3myz

hifi80sman said:


> Confirmed.  I have several TWS' and Headphones that support both AAC and aptX, so when toggling between AAC and aptX on Android, there is a noticeable difference when A/B the same source material.  Obviously, the better the source is and the TWS/Headphones are, the clearer the picture will be.  This was a blind test, as I had someone else toggle back and forth while I was in critical discernment mode.


That's a great way to test. I like your new self portrait @hifi80sman, that mullet rocks!


----------



## hifi80sman

The Apostle said:


> What are you guys using for Bluetooth settings, besides aptx?
> 
> AVRCP version:
> Audio sample rate:
> ...


The sample/bit rate should be maxed out based on the capability of your device and the source content.  Unless the source material and your hardware support aptX HD, aptX Adaptive, or LDAC, then changing it to a higher value (if it will even let you) won't make a difference.  You'll be able to downscale, but I'm not sure why you'd want to do that.

If you're using LDAC, Android may, for some inexplicable reason, default to 32-bit, however, LDAC doesn't actually support 32-bit, so you'll actually have to toggle it back to 24-bit.  It actually sounds worse when it defaults to 32-bit.


----------



## hifi80sman (Oct 10, 2019)

d3myz said:


> That's a great way to test. I like your new self portrait @hifi80sman, that mullet rocks!


It could very well be the best mullet, like, ever.

In the interest of staying "on thread", recommend listening to this with Anbes 359 or better.


----------



## d3myz

gibletzor said:


> I got my Lystar J29s yesterday.  I have been listening to them for about the last hour or so and I would agree on most of your points.  The sound quality reminds me a lot of my Tranya B530 with a little less bass oomph.  Great highs and mids and quality bass.  I also like that I don't have to shove them in my ears or try to pinch them between thumb and finger to articulate the buttons, but I still prefer touch buttons like my Gbuds and Tranyas.  My only complaint is the stock eartips.  In my ears they slowly push themselves out over the course of 15 minutes or so, even if I'm not moving around.  I think they're just too shallow.  I put some Spinfit CP100Z on them and they are staying put a lot better and sound pretty much the same.  Definitely a good buy for $21!



I'm really glad you like them! The Tranya B530 is actually an excellent comparison, I didn't even think about that!  I can't believe they are only $21. I have ran into some random auto pairing issues but only once or twice and it's really silly you can't power them on w/o returning them to the charger, but I can easily keep these in until they die and comfortably, not having to push them in to get a seal is great. The stock tips are garbage, I almost always switch mine out for my spinft 360's or spiral dots. Thanks again for buying them and checking them out, it's always good to get a second opinion.


----------



## The Apostle

hifi80sman said:


> The sample/bit rate should be maxed out based on the capability of your device and the source content.  Unless the source material and your hardware support aptX HD, aptX Adaptive, or LDAC, then changing it to a higher value (if it will even let you) won't make a difference.  You'll be able to downscale, but I'm not sure why you'd want to do that.
> 
> If you're using LDAC, Android may, for some inexplicable reason, default to 32-bit, however, LDAC doesn't actually support 32-bit, so you'll actually have to toggle it back to 24-bit.  It actually sounds worse when it defaults to 32-bit.



Currently I'm set up as follows.  

Jabra Elite 65t
OnePlus 6
AVRCP version: 1.4 (default)
Bluetooth codec: SBC (aptx hd doesn't stick) 65t doesn't support?
Audio sample rate: 44.1
Audio bits per sample: 16 bit
LDAC codec: Adaptive/best effort.  Other options are 990/660/330 kbps 

I need to learn more and do my research.  Any suggestions you can provide on my settings, would be appreciated.


----------



## d3myz

hifi80sman said:


> It could very well be the best mullet, like, ever.
> 
> In the interest of staying "on thread", recommend listing to this with Anbes 359 or better.



This is a hilarious video. I listened to it with my Tevi's, sounds pretty good! The sax player is def. the coolest guy in this band.


----------



## gibletzor

d3myz said:


> I'm really glad you like them! The Tranya B530 is actually an excellent comparison, I didn't even think about that!  I can't believe they are only $21. I have ran into some random auto pairing issues but only once or twice and it's really silly you can't power them on w/o returning them to the charger, but I can easily keep these in until they die and comfortably, not having to push them in to get a seal is great. The stock tips are garbage, I almost always switch mine out for my spinft 360's or spiral dots. Thanks again for buying them and checking them out, it's always good to get a second opinion.


They're literally just a hair less good than the Tranyas in every regard except comfort out of the box.  The Tranyas are comfortable with the stock tips and 3rd party tips.  I haven't tested call quality on them yet though, which is excellent on the B530s!


----------



## d3myz

webvan said:


> Thanks, well no RatShacks in my current neighborhood (actually didn't they all close?) so can't give the Auvio's a try. I guess I'll have to import some Spiral Dots (JVC right ?) at some point. My problem with the Anbes is that regardless of the tip (and I'd have to say the stock ones work best) I only get a good seal/SQ when I tuck them slightly inside/bottom of my ear but with (light) movement they tend to pop out


Here you go.  They are BOGO for 3 pair S,M,L I pretty much only use the M's and sometimes the smalls.


----------



## d3myz

Bartig said:


> The Lypertek should be coming my way. Will definitely compare them intensively.
> 
> 
> Hmm... maybe I should pull the trigger.


Please do, i'm interested in your take of the Bomaker, I returned mine, they were just too bright for me.


----------



## hifi80sman

The Apostle said:


> Currently I'm set up as follows.
> 
> Jabra Elite 65t
> OnePlus 6
> ...


For the 65t, you can only go SBC or AAC (16-bit/44.1 kHz).  It doesn't support anything higher.  If you have good source material, you may want to look at some of the higher end TWS' that support aptX (Senneheiser, Master & Dynamic, House of Marley).


----------



## d3myz

Rob E. said:


> Here's are two incredibly good (imho) EQ apps for your iphone, same dev... https://apps.apple.com/us/app/highamp-mp3-music-player/id1359487085 - or - https://apps.apple.com/us/app/highstereo-mp3-music-player/id1164322969
> 10 or 30 band, + preset & programmable curves, with independent rotary Bass & Treble controls for on the fly granular adjustments.
> The highlight being the rotary controls - quickly adjustable on top of an EQ curve.
> 
> ...


Wow, thank you @Rob E. These are both pretty cool and i'm really impressed by the quality of the radio streams. I haven't played with it too much, but the EQ works really well!


----------



## Blueshound24

Does anyone know if the Shanling's have a warm rolled off treble sound, or are they considered having good treble and detail?


----------



## Grayson73

gibletzor said:


> They're literally just a hair less good than the Tranyas in every regard except comfort out of the box.  The Tranyas are comfortable with the stock tips and 3rd party tips.  I haven't tested call quality on them yet though, which is excellent on the B530s!



Do you like them more than your Kissral R18?  Is your sig in order of your favorite to least favorite?


----------



## gibletzor

Grayson73 said:


> Do you like them more than your Kissral R18?  Is your sig in order of your favorite to least favorite?


I didn't put them in order, no.
It's hard to say one is better than the other with the Tranya B530 and the Kissral R18.  They're different beasts.  
The R18s have much more high end detail and clarity, but the bass is much less powerful than the Tranyas.  Still good detailed bass, but it doesn't have that bump!
The B530s are more fun and energetic with the big bass.  They still have great highs and mids but have a hard time competing with the R18s in that area.  I definitely prefer the touch controls on the Tranyas though.  
Call quality is excellent on the Tranyas, but I haven't tested the R18s for that yet.
I hope that helps!


----------



## Grayson73 (Oct 10, 2019)

gibletzor said:


> I didn't put them in order, no.
> It's hard to say one is better than the other with the Tranya B530 and the Kissral R18.  They're different beasts.
> The R18s have much more high end detail and clarity, but the bass is much less powerful than the Tranyas.  Still good detailed bass, but it doesn't have that bump!
> The B530s are more fun and energetic with the big bass.  They still have great highs and mids but have a hard time competing with the R18s in that area.  I definitely prefer the touch controls on the Tranyas though.
> ...



Yes, it does help.  Do you find the same thing between the Lystar and R18s?  Battle of the $21 TWS (SSK and Lystar)


----------



## Grayson73 (Oct 10, 2019)

Strange, the $21 Lystar J29 listing only has a picture of the case now and no options for colors, or maybe this isn't the J29.  Does Lystar make two different buds?
https://www.amazon.com/LYSTAR-Bluetooth-Wireless-Earbuds-Headsets/dp/B07WRCVJ9Q


The other listing for Lystar is $39.99 and also no options for colors.
https://www.amazon.com/LYSTAR-Wireless-Bluetooth-Headphones-Charging/dp/B07WNR2TFG


----------



## Grayson73 (Oct 10, 2019)

Anyone know anything about these?  
*
Tronsmart Spunky Beat Bluetooth 5.0 TWS CVC 8.0 Earbuds Qualcomm QCC3020 aptX/AAC/SBC  for $24.99+FS*
https://slickdeals.net/f/13435429-t...tws-cvc-8-0-earbuds-qualcomm-for-24-99-fs?v=1


----------



## AtariPrime

Jim's Review Room just posted a review of the Creative Outlier Air (the baby brother of the Creative Outlier Gold) and in short, it seems to be the best value for money out there. 

Pluses:
+ 8-10 hrs of battery life.
+ small profile in your ear compared other earbuds
+ some of the best bass in the wireless earbud world
+ clear sound with rolled off highs
+ less than $100 and better than many options costing 3x as much
+ compact case

Minuses:
- physical buttons require heavier pressure than desireable
- good sound but slightly cleaner available with higher end wireless earbuds
- not flashy enough for the fashion conscious


----------



## Caipirina

Slater said:


> Has anyone ever seen this one? It has *detachable* ear hooks, which would be great for strenuous exercise I would imagine.
> 
> 
> 
> Other than the hooks, it has all of the typical features, Bluetooth 5.0, AAC, IPX rated, touch controls, etc. From the number sold, they seem quite popular.



congrats to 10K posts!!!

those buds had been on my radar since summer and I thought I had asked about them here and some responses were not favorable... but this is so long ago.  Maybe I was just waiting for a better price and then forgot about them.


----------



## d3myz

Grayson73 said:


> Strange, the $21 Lystar J29 listing only has a picture of the case now and no options for colors, or maybe this isn't the J29.  Does Lystar make two different buds?
> https://www.amazon.com/LYSTAR-Bluetooth-Wireless-Earbuds-Headsets/dp/B07WRCVJ9Q
> 
> 
> ...


Strange indeed. I'm only aware of one Lystar TWS' but their could be more.


----------



## d3myz (Oct 10, 2019)

Grayson73 said:


> Yes, it does help.  Do you find the same thing between the Lystar and R18s?  Battle of the $21 TWS (SSK and Lystar)



I personally like the Sound Sig. of the SSK better. To me the sound is more full.  The lystar can be a little bright to at times and I don't feel like it has quite as much mid bass, but the bass seems to be more accurate and faster than the SSK. The Lystar's are also more comfy than the ssk and the buttons are much easier to push. If you had to choose between the two, I'd go with the SSK, but they Lystar is def. a great sounding Used to be cheap, TWS.


----------



## hifi80sman (Oct 10, 2019)

AtariPrime said:


> Jim's Review Room just posted a review of the Creative Outlier Air (the baby brother of the Creative Outlier Gold) and in short, it seems to be the best value for money out there.
> 
> Pluses:
> + 8-10 hrs of battery life.
> ...



That's a fair review of the Outlier.  I tend to agree with most of his points, except I would not consider the case "compact".  Priced very competitively for what they offer.


----------



## d3myz

Grayson73 said:


> Anyone know anything about these?
> *
> Tronsmart Spunky Beat Bluetooth 5.0 TWS CVC 8.0 Earbuds Qualcomm QCC3020 aptX/AAC/SBC  for $24.99+FS*
> https://slickdeals.net/f/13435429-t...tws-cvc-8-0-earbuds-qualcomm-for-24-99-fs?v=1


Someone mentioned these earlier this week or last. I can't remember who, but I think they ordered them. Interested to hear how they sound.


----------



## mattedialdoc

hifi80sman said:


> That's a fair review of the Outlier.  I tend to agree with most of his points, except I would not consider the case "compact".  Priced very competitively for what they offer.



Ditto on that review for the most part too. I just couldn’t get a comfortable fit. Killed my ears during exercise...and the buttons were brutal to push. Ouch!


----------



## BigZ12

d3myz said:


> Someone mentioned these earlier this week or last. I can't remember who, but I think they ordered them. Interested to hear how they sound.


I ordered them. Still not shipped... so I have them at Christmas time?  (Aliexpress)

About the Icehouse vid, listening with Tevis... sound good you wrote?! I guess you meant the song, since you hate the buds  I actually loved Icehouse in the 80's. Still listens to "Hey little girl" which is on my oldies and goldies playlist.


----------



## d3myz

Well, I've been using the Tevi's again today with my auvio tips, still not my fav, but they work great for my audiobook (Pet Sematary) Michael C. Halls voice sounds fantastic . Lypertek made good on their promise and comp'd me for them. Initially I was told 50% off, but I did ask for full compensation and they gave it to me. I urge any of you guys that bought them to hit them up via FB messenger after leaving a review on amazon, good or bad. (mine was 3 stars before I got my replacement) Tell them you're a member of head-fi, send them your review and see if you can get a discount. Good Luck.


----------



## BigZ12

d3myz said:


> Well, I've been using the Tevi's again today with my auvio tips, still not my fav, but they work great for my audiobook (Pet Sematary) Michael C. Halls voice sounds fantastic . Lypertek made good on their promise and comp'd me for them. Initially I was told 50% off, but I did ask for full compensation and they gave it to me. I urge any of you guys that bought them to hit them up via FB messenger after leaving a review on amazon, good or bad. (mine was 3 stars before I got my replacement) Tell them you're a member of head-fi, send them your review and see if you can get a discount. Good Luck.


I bought them directly at Lypertek, so I guess I don't qualify for a discount. 
Did you see my post with the testing of different tips? I'm glad you encouraged me to do that, (yes it was your last answer which made me test them) because now it sounds better than ever. I still don't know what tip I'm using, but it rocks!


----------



## d3myz

BigZ12 said:


> I ordered them. Still not shipped... so I have them at Christmas time?  (Aliexpress)
> 
> About the Icehouse vid, listening with Tevis... sound good you wrote?! I guess you meant the song, since you hate the buds  I actually loved Icehouse in the 80's. Still listens to "Hey little girl" which is on my oldies and goldies playlist.


HAH HAH. See my most recent comment. Hate is such a strong word. LOL. I don't hate them,  I just don't buy in to the hype and this "Audiophile" tuning crap on a TWS. I was a musician for half my life and I know for me what audiophile quality sounds like. I know this is all very subjective, but as I've mentioned  previously, it's fallacious logic to call a TWS' balanced or neutral when then mids and highs are bumped up and the low end flat etc. Watch Gamesky and El Jefe's reviews and You Tube, they talk about them like they are the best thing since the internet. The first question the guy from Lypertek asked me is "did you see Gamesky's review?" Anyway, My second pair sound, much better and after this app that @Rob E. showed me, I played around with the EQ and it's MUCH better than spotify's, so i'm really excited about TEVI's app.


----------



## d3myz

BigZ12 said:


> I bought them directly at Lypertek, so I guess I don't qualify for a discount.
> Did you see my post with the testing of different tips? I'm glad you encouraged me to do that, (yes it was your last answer which made me test them) because now it sounds better than ever. I still don't know what tip I'm using, but it rocks!


I think you should still hit them up, you can always review them on amazon even if you didn't buy them there.


----------



## BigZ12

d3myz said:


> HAH HAH. See my most recent comment. Hate is such a strong word. LOL. I don't hate them,  I just don't buy in to the hype and this "Audiophile" tuning crap on a TWS. I was a musician for half my life and I know for me what audiophile quality sounds like. I know this is all very subjective, but as I've mentioned  previously, it's fallacious logic to call a TWS' balanced or neutral when then mids and highs are bumped up and the low end flat etc. Watch Gamesky and El Jefe's reviews and You Tube, they talk about them like they are the best thing since the internet. The first question the guy from Lypertek asked me is "did you see Gamesky's review?" Anyway, My second pair sound, much better and after this app that @Rob E. showed me, I played around with the EQ and it's MUCH better than spotify's, so i'm really excited about TEVI's app.


I think they are the best thing since the internet...  
What app? I have an iPhone and use Apple Music... read that Lypertek is releasing an app, but are there another app I can use, or is it just for Android?


----------



## d3myz

BigZ12 said:


> I have the Anbes 359, the "originals" with Anbes printed on the case. And I still have the QCY T2C. (Sold/returned all the others I've bought, like the Senn' MTW, B&O E8 2.0, Tiso i4 etc)
> 
> After all the discussions I had to test the 3 TWS I still own with all the tips I have in my drawer. (Mandarines by Symbio, Comply Foam, Flexfit, Spinfits (Cp100Z etc), and several stock silicone tips for different in-ear headset I've owned)
> 
> ...


What EQ software is that in your pic?


----------



## BigZ12

d3myz said:


> What EQ software is that in your pic?


APO Equalizer with Peter's (Peace) Equalizer extension interface on top. 
https://sourceforge.net/projects/equalizerapo/
https://sourceforge.net/projects/peace-equalizer-apo-extension/
Using my Sony WH-1000XM3 (AptX HD), RBH Prostereo H2 (AptX HD) and Soundpeats Q12 Plus (AptX LL) with a Reiyin AptX HD/LL transmitter on my HTPC w/Win 10. 
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33028503249.html

Works great for both music and watching series and some movies without disturbing the neighbours.


----------



## d3myz

BigZ12 said:


> I think they are the best thing since the internet...
> What app? I have an iPhone and use Apple Music... read that Lypertek is releasing an app, but are there another app I can use, or is it just for Android?


it's called HighStereo HighAmp, they don't work for streaming music, like spotify and Apple Music, but they have streaming radio and I believe you can play files from a network folder or other online sources like one drive and dropbox etc.


----------



## FYLegend

Does Whizzer B6 differ in tuning from other B6 (ie. Mezone)? There seem to be some great deals on Aliexpress for the unbranded versions....


----------



## Slater

Caipirina said:


> congrats to 10K posts!!!
> 
> those buds had been on my radar since summer and I thought I had asked about them here and some responses were not favorable... but this is so long ago.  Maybe I was just waiting for a better price and then forgot about them.



Thanks! Although I guess it shows a combination of having no life plus audiophile obsession lol

As far as those buds, I’ll see what price they go to during 11.11. If they’re cheap enough, I’ll be willing to try them out. As long as my expectation is that they’ll be crap, then I won’t be disappointed right?


----------



## HiFlight (Oct 10, 2019)

AtariPrime said:


> Jim's Review Room just posted a review of the Creative Outlier Air (the baby brother of the Creative Outlier Gold) and in short, it seems to be the best value for money out there.
> 
> Pluses:
> + 8-10 hrs of battery life.
> ...




 I owned the Creative Outlier Air for about 3 weeks. The sound was good and fit was decent although rather large, but the deal-breaker for me was the terrible connectivity when outside. The constant dropping of the Bluetooth reception happened regardless of the source I was using. Creative accepted the return without any hassle.


----------



## clerkpalmer

Galaxy buds recertified on best buy for 84.99. Hmmmm. Do I need these? Anyone with them care to comment? Crinnacle thought very highly of the sq


----------



## chinmie

BobJS said:


> I live in the Samsung ecosystem (as opposed to Apple) and would like to make 2 points related to that:
> 
> 1.  Not sure if this is real, or a result of expectation bias, but I've found that, all considered, among my TW collection, those that use aptx tend to sound better than those using AAC.  This would be consistent with what I've read here that AAC is not implemented as well in Android as it is in Apple products.  So, going forward, I'm not considering buying anything that doesn't support aptx.  This eliminates the wf-1000xm3 for example, which supports SBC and AAC but not APTX.  Would be interested if others could confirm or refute my hypothesis here.
> 
> 2.  I've discovered that I can assign the music app (really, just a controller) on my Galaxy watch to the double press function of one of the buttons, and therefore bring it up quite quickly and easily.  Once there, I can control the volume of the music player on my phone which is quite handy for those TWE that don't have integrated volume control (like YOU, House of Marley Liberate Air).  I suspect this can be accomplished with other smart watch/phone combos as well.  Makes it easier than grabbing the phone from my pocket or wherever if I'm in the middle of something. Just wanted to throw that out there.





hifi80sman said:


> Confirmed.  I have several TWS' and Headphones that support both AAC and aptX, so when toggling between AAC and aptX on Android, there is a noticeable difference when A/B the same source material.  Obviously, the better the source is and the TWS/Headphones are, the clearer the picture will be.  This was a blind test, as I had someone else toggle back and forth while I was in critical discernment mode.



i also hear small but noticable differences between codecs (SBC, AAC, APTX, and LDAC). the differences are not to the point of bugging me about which codecs to use, but it is there. 
I've read somewhere that the difference is not because of the data or quality differences between the codecs, but because of the DAC and amp inside it programmed differently when handling different codecs. I'll post it here when i can find it again. 

so one could argue: there's no difference between codecs! you're all delusional!
maybe technically they're right, but all in all, the outputs of the sound because of how the circuits handles them are still different... so there 




clerkpalmer said:


> Galaxy buds recertified on best buy for 84.99. Hmmmm. Do I need these? Anyone with them care to comment? Crinnacle thought very highly of the sq



i love the Galaxy buds. the overall package is great for me: clean and nice base sound with totally usable EQ presets, nice ambient mode and touch control implementation. I'm using it with a Samsung Note 8 with the apps (crucial in my opinion) installed though .. so i don't know how the overall use experience would be with non Samsung phones.
one thing that i really dislike about it is phone call quality. i have several TWS and BT20 combos already, and it's safe to say the Galaxy Bud's mic is the worst of all of them for phone calls.


----------



## DigDub (Oct 10, 2019)

Mouseman said:


> Can you post a copy of the case when you get a chance, and I'll look forward to your overall impressions. It looks very similar to those Earin TWS buds, at least in form factor, but then again there are a bunch of buds out there that are similar.


The case comparison with Anbes 359 and Galaxy buds cases.

The case is tiny.






And flatter.





The buds themselves are pretty low profile when in my ears, about the same as the Galaxy buds. The buttons have just the right tactile feedback, doesn't require much force to press and isn't too soft to press accidentally as well. The buds themselves are smooth all around without any charging contact points like other tws which makes it comfortable to wear. I personally find some bud's charging points can cause soreness in the ear. The case has a single pogo pin which makes contact with the wire mesh on the nozzle. Clever design. Fit wise, I can see why many reviewers say the fit can be tricky. The buds are bullet shaped and may not fit all ears. The Melomania fits in my ears with the large tips. Speaking of tips, the nozzle is quite wide, so the tips are quite proprietary too, I have not seen tips which has such a wide bore. The wide nozzle does not cause any discomfort in my ears, in fact I fell asleep while listening to them in bed.

The sound is overall warm I would say,  highs and mids are not emphasized. Mid bass is quite abundant which gives it a warm signature and a natural quality to voices. As the highs and mids are not over emphasized and combined with the warm mid bass, it may come across as veiled or muddy on initial listening. I would say the sound is quite relaxing as there's little sparkly highs or booming bass to get into your head. Soundstage is normal for iems, not narrow nor ultra spacious.


----------



## clerkpalmer

chinmie said:


> i love the Galaxy buds. the overall package is great for me: clean and nice base sound with totally usable EQ presets, nice ambient mode and touch control implementation. I'm using it with a Samsung Note 8 with the apps (crucial in my opinion) installed though .. so i don't know how the overall use experience would be with non Samsung phones.
> one thing that i really dislike about it is phone call quality. i have several TWS and BT20 combos already, and it's safe to say the Galaxy Bud's mic is the worst of all of them for phone calls.



Thanks for the input.  My collection is getting a little out of hand but ... I do have a note 10 so it seems we were made for each other. Does the sq hang with your bt20 sets?


----------



## Mouseman

hifi80sman said:


> It could very well be the best mullet, like, ever.
> 
> In the interest of staying "on thread", recommend listening to this with Anbes 359 or better.



Damn you!  I got sucked into an Icehouse hole this afternoon because of your post! Next thing I know, I'm listening to a reggae version of that song and Crazy. Did you know John Oates co-wrote Electric Blue?


----------



## chinmie

clerkpalmer said:


> Thanks for the input.  My collection is getting a little out of hand but ... I do have a note 10 so it seems we were made for each other. Does the sq hang with your bt20 sets?



the bass and mids is good, mids especially if you like those harman curve mid treble bump. treble is also good, but the highest extention have that digital tinge to it. clean, non grainy, non sibilant, but digital sounding. for outside uses it's not really noticable. it's not a bad treble though, just pointing it out my observations.
in some instances (like really loud places with low rumble sounds) i prefer the G buds to my BT20S + T2 Pro..but a toss up with BT20S +Kanas, because they share similar sound characteristics


----------



## d3myz

Slater said:


> Thanks! Although I guess it shows a combination of having no life plus audiophile obsession lol
> 
> As far as those buds, I’ll see what price they go to during 11.11. If they’re cheap enough, I’ll be willing to try them out. As long as my expectation is that they’ll be crap, then I won’t be disappointed right?


Congrats! Slater!


----------



## wizll

soundcore liberty pro 2 quick out of box impressions.
whoa. I like what I'm hearing so far. easily blows away the previous zolo liberty pro, though that's not very hard to do as most current chi-fi are better than those now. hearing a bit of white noise during quiet sections of tracks. I've been mostly using anbes359 and mpow t5 so compared to those...heavier bass, clearer voices, treble seems turned up a notch. for the special former zolo lpro backer price discount at $79, I'm quite satisfied after 30mins of listening. will let this break in a bit before adding more notes.


----------



## gibletzor

Grayson73 said:


> Yes, it does help.  Do you find the same thing between the Lystar and R18s?  Battle of the $21 TWS (SSK and Lystar)



The Lystar are basically a slightly neutered B530 sound-wise so the same should hold true.


----------



## Veyska

Why do I keep eyeing the KZ E10 when I know I'm not wild about the behind-the-ears-hook form factor of my BT20?  >->

(Anyone wanna' trade a .75 2-pin TRN Bluetooth cable module for my .75 2-pin BT20?    Barely used, works great!  Basically any of the four sorts will do, they all have AptX far's I know, though nominal pref for BT3S for battery life...  Then I could stick my CCA C10 on and have basically the same effect but without battery modules pinching my ears and fighting for dominance with my glasses.  )


----------



## Caipirina (Oct 11, 2019)

Soooo, I finally got to listen to both(!), the DD and the BA versions of the new Shanling TWS.
And TL;DR: if you already have the Mifo O5 (BA) you might end up not buying, like me.

Both of them came across as rather bright, and in the BA model I can somehow appreciate this, but the Mifo adds a bit more fun (bass). Overall my high expectations were not met.
To be fair, these Shanlings were fresh out of box with minimal play time, burn in might change things. I also did not get to play with different ear tips.
Compared to the Mifo, the case feels a bit cheap. But very pocketable and I love the color combos.
Maybe my ears are just too old to acknowledge & cherish the Knowles BA.
I can see how some people might be very happy with the Shanling.


----------



## hifi80sman

Mouseman said:


> Damn you!  I got sucked into an Icehouse hole this afternoon because of your post! Next thing I know, I'm listening to a reggae version of that song and Crazy. Did you know John Oates co-wrote Electric Blue?


LOL!  NICE!  Yes, I got sucked down that hole too and yes, it did lead me to the John Oates nugget as well!  Too funny!  Six Degrees of Kevin Bacon?  No, Six Degrees of John Oates!


----------



## hifi80sman

Slater said:


> Thanks! Although I guess it shows a combination of having no life plus audiophile obsession lol
> 
> As far as those buds, I’ll see what price they go to during 11.11. If they’re cheap enough, I’ll be willing to try them out. As long as my expectation is that they’ll be crap, then I won’t be disappointed right?


I say doing what you enjoy _*IS *_having a life!  

I feel sorry for the people that just have stock earbuds that come with their phone.  Brutal existence.  It's like Bert without Ernie.


----------



## BobJS (Oct 11, 2019)

I was just browsing through some online reviews of the galaxy buds, and some reviews mentioned when paired with a galaxy s10, the default codec was adaptive LDAC !  Can this possibly be true? Can anyone confirm what super-secret codec is used when paired with late model Galaxy phone?


----------



## BigZ12 (Oct 11, 2019)

Could someone write a list of all the new more "high end" TWSs which are coming soon, or have recently been released?
Like Klipsch T5, Jabra 75t, Libratone Track+ and so on.
I could be in the market for a more expensive TWS which checks all the boxes. Sound quality, at least supports AAC codec, transparent mode, battery, good mic and with touch/buttons that controls all features (Volume, Siri and the obvious play/pause and skip tracks.)


----------



## clerkpalmer

BobJS said:


> I was just browsing through some online reviews of the galaxy buds, and some reviews mentioned when paired with a galaxy s10, the default codec was adaptive LDAC !  Can this possibly be true? Can anyone confirm what super-secret codec is used when paired with late model Galaxy phone?



There is no chance they support ldac.


----------



## Grayson73

Tranya B530 price dropped by $10 to $49.

https://www.amazon.com/Bluetooth-Microphone-TRANYA-Headphones-Continuous/dp/B07VS1LS52


----------



## DigDub

BobJS said:


> I was just browsing through some online reviews of the galaxy buds, and some reviews mentioned when paired with a galaxy s10, the default codec was adaptive LDAC !  Can this possibly be true? Can anyone confirm what super-secret codec is used when paired with late model Galaxy phone?


The codec is listed as Scalable Codec when the Galaxy buds are paired with newer model Samsung phones. I doubt it's LDAC.


----------



## chinmie

BobJS said:


> I was just browsing through some online reviews of the galaxy buds, and some reviews mentioned when paired with a galaxy s10, the default codec was adaptive LDAC !  Can this possibly be true? Can anyone confirm what super-secret codec is used when paired with late model Galaxy phone?



Samsung Scalable Codec, to be precise. not LDAC at all. it is present on my Note 8. i presume it is based on SBC, but with higher bitrate than usual, but that is pure guessing. there's nothing bad about SBC actually, in fact SBC at maximum should be equal or even better than AAC


----------



## Rob E.

d3myz said:


> Wow, thank you @Rob E. These are both pretty cool and i'm really impressed by the quality of the radio streams. I haven't played with it too much, but the EQ works really well!



Your welcome. Happy to help.


----------



## Rob E. (Oct 11, 2019)

hifi80sman said:


> I say doing what you enjoy _*IS *_having a life!



++ 100%



hifi80sman said:


> I feel sorry for the people that just have stock earbuds that come with their phone.  Brutal existence.  It's like Bert without Ernie.



(I think) You have that backwards. Ignorance is bliss. Most folks don't know the difference or, don't care. _Being an audiophile_ / music lover / enthusiast / equipment junkie _is really the Brutal existence_. It's a never ending search. It can be VERY expensive. It consumes a lot of time. There's ALWAYS something better. Happiness (audio bliss) is short-lived as the hunt goes on. It's a beautiful life but there are a lot of caveats.


----------



## vstolpner

Caipirina said:


> Soooo, I finally got to listen to both(!), the DD and the BA versions of the new Shanling TWS.
> And TL;DR: if you already have the Mifo O5 (BA) you might end up not buying, like me.
> 
> Both of them came across as rather bright, and in the BA model I can somehow appreciate this, but the Mifo adds a bit more fun (bass). Overall my high expectations were not met.
> ...




I did find the Knowles BAs needed quite a bit of time to burn in on my Shanling's (maybe 30+ hours when I stopped hearing differences). I think that's pretty standard for most BAs. 

How did you find the DD's?


----------



## BobJS

chinmie said:


> Samsung Scalable Codec, to be precise. not LDAC at all. it is present on my Note 8. i presume it is based on SBC, but with higher bitrate than usual, but that is pure guessing. there's nothing bad about SBC actually, in fact SBC at maximum should be equal or even better than AAC



Thank you.  I found a description here :

https://news.samsung.com/global/the...chopping,to receive data without interruption.


----------



## voicemaster

Grayson73 said:


> Tranya B530 price dropped by $10 to $49.
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/Bluetooth-Microphone-TRANYA-Headphones-Continuous/dp/B07VS1LS52



How is the B530 for call?


----------



## Mouseman

voicemaster said:


> How is the B530 for call?


I've asked people I'm talking to, and they said it was excellent sound quality. They are my current go-to for daily use.


----------



## Caipirina

vstolpner said:


> I did find the Knowles BAs needed quite a bit of time to burn in on my Shanling's (maybe 30+ hours when I stopped hearing differences). I think that's pretty standard for most BAs.
> 
> How did you find the DD's?



Maybe the DDs also needed some more burn in, but I was really taken aback by how little bass came through ... could always be a fit issue on top of that, this is always a problem for me with in store auditioning ... but i.e. when I tried a powerbeats a few days ago, I was impressed beyond expectations by both, the quantity while maintaining quality of the bass. I think it has a lot to do with expectations .. maybe I wanted too much from the Shanling .. 

funny though how I did not appreciate my Mifo in the beginning, and now they are in my top 5    Just sounds fuller IMHO


----------



## Caipirina

By the way, I was looking around today and found some YT 'first looks' for the KZ E10 ... and, well, if El Jefe or Bad Guy Good Audio are members here (or just lurking), I don't mean to step on toes ... but well ... actually not much I can say without stepping on toes. Mainly lotsa hot air, until the 'real' review video comes? But seriously, opening the case 3-4 times because the blue light is so mesmerizing?  

If all goes well I will have my unit by Monday ... we shall see 

(one AliX review by an Australian guy describes the case as flimsy and a constant hiss, sounds like a faulty unit? Everyone else seems to love them ... )


----------



## gibletzor

voicemaster said:


> How is the B530 for call?


They have excellent call quality from my experience.


----------



## voicemaster

gibletzor said:


> They have excellent call quality from my experience.



Ordered and will arrive tomorrow.


----------



## jasaero

Caipirina said:


> Maybe the DDs also needed some more burn in, but I was really taken aback by how little bass came through ... could always be a fit issue on top of that, this is always a problem for me with in store auditioning ... but i.e. when I tried a powerbeats a few days ago, I was impressed beyond expectations by both, the quantity while maintaining quality of the bass. I think it has a lot to do with expectations .. maybe I wanted too much from the Shanling ..
> 
> funny though how I did not appreciate my Mifo in the beginning, and now they are in my top 5    Just sounds fuller IMHO



You have any of the 359/SSK or other cheaper ones everyone has since they are so cheap you could compare the bass too, haha?  Seems everyone has a different opinion on what is proper/flat for Bass/Mid-bass response somehow.  I think has to do with all the variables with bass response and how it ends up actually getting produced.  Higher frequencies seems be a bit more 1:1 with tuning and driver involved, but bass can vary a lot with same driver and tuning, but different enclosure and even biology and stuff.  But I am always curious what someones take is vs something I have/know.


----------



## rhsauer

Anyone else find that the outgoing call quality on the Sony WF-1000xM3 is horrible?  Wondering if I just have a bad set, or I’m missing a setting — or the call quality is just bad.  Diappointing, because I would have thought that the ANC mics would have allowed good ambient noise reduction on calls — but that seems to be anything but the case.


----------



## kelter (Oct 11, 2019)

Hello. Can you advice TWS with better sound quality? Firstly i have QCY T1, after bought sabbat x12 pro. Btw i switch on them from er4s and very happy without cables. But i feel must go on. Yesterday i thinking about mifo o5 pro with BA and today JD sent me a good deal to email for mifo o5 pro for 59$. Can i buy something better than that for that money or below 100$?


----------



## hifi80sman

rhsauer said:


> Anyone else find that the outgoing call quality on the Sony WF-1000xM3 is horrible?  Wondering if I just have a bad set, or I’m missing a setting — or the call quality is just bad.  Diappointing, because I would have thought that the ANC mics would have allowed good ambient noise reduction on calls — but that seems to be anything but the case.


No, you don;t have a bad pair.  The call quality is nothing to write home about.  When testing the call quality, the volume is fine, but your voice may come across as somewhat muffled.  Still intelligible, but definitely not something I would choose to use if I'm going to be on calls frequently.  For travel and taking a call here and there, they'll do.  Watching numerous YouTube clips of the call quality, I knew going into it that they were not going to be used for that purpose.  That being said, I hope they release a firmware update to correct some of the mic issues.  This guy has a good review on some of the recent firmware updates (they did take down 1.3.0 update, so I'm stuck at 1.2.3 for now).

If I know I'm going to be on calls, I use my Plantronics BackBeat Pro 5100.  They work well for calls and still have good sound (I enjoy a little more bass than your typical "audiophile").


----------



## 13gsc13

Good day
I'm interested in the Momentum True Wireless earphones
Can anyone comment on their sound quality?
I don't care about call quality
Thanks
Gord


----------



## TK33

13gsc13 said:


> Good day
> I'm interested in the Momentum True Wireless earphones
> Can anyone comment on their sound quality?
> I don't care about call quality
> ...



I use them every day and think they are great and they are pretty well regarded in terms of SQ (if you don't mind the cost).  One of the biggest criticisms have been battery life and the battery drain issue which doesn't really bother me since I charge them at least once every 2-3 days.  There is some basic EQ in the app as well.  They have been discussed at some length in this thread so I would do a search.

In terms of SQ, the MW07s are supposed to be great.  There is supposed to be a MW07 Plus coming out soon so you may want to do some research in the meantime and try out both if you can wait.


----------



## mattedialdoc

So what are you guys thinking so far about the soundcore liberty pro 2 ?

Mine arrived today. I’m charging them up currently, but I did try them out for a few songs.

I’m used to smaller profile buds...like MPOW and Bomaker...so the do have more bulk to them. But they are comfortable. 

The functions are activated by pushing a side switch button on either bud. It is very small. But easy to press and better then jamming the bud into your ear canal like on the Outlier.
The SQ seems good. Bass is strong. Nice mids and highs. 

I’ll report back more later. I’m not sure the form factor is for me.


----------



## Slater

TK33 said:


> They have been discussed at some length in this thread so I would do a search.



Agreed. This model has been talked about in this thread probably more than any other model. This thread is a treasure trove of info, and a search  would definitely be beneficial


----------



## hifi80sman

mattedialdoc said:


> So what are you guys thinking so far about the soundcore liberty pro 2 ?
> 
> Mine arrived today. I’m charging them up currently, but I did try them out for a few songs.
> 
> ...


Looking forward to it.  Please comment on layering of sound and if it seems like their specific dual driver setup makes a difference.  @d3myz indicated it sounds like the crossover may have a dip effect in some of the mid-range frequencies.


----------



## nerdspot

Caipirina said:


> By the way, I was looking around today and found some YT 'first looks' for the KZ E10 ... and, well, if El Jefe or Bad Guy Good Audio are members here (or just lurking), I don't mean to step on toes ... but well ... actually not much I can say without stepping on toes. Mainly lotsa hot air, until the 'real' review video comes? But seriously, opening the case 3-4 times because the blue light is so mesmerizing?
> 
> If all goes well I will have my unit by Monday ... we shall see
> 
> (one AliX review by an Australian guy describes the case as flimsy and a constant hiss, sounds like a faulty unit? Everyone else seems to love them ... )



One of the youtubers you mentioned seems to have connection issues with his review unit.


----------



## rhsauer

hifi80sman said:


> No, you don;t have a bad pair.  The call quality is nothing to write home about.  When testing the call quality, the volume is fine, but your voice may come across as somewhat muffled.  Still intelligible, but definitely not something I would choose to use if I'm going to be on calls frequently.  For travel and taking a call here and there, they'll do.  Watching numerous YouTube clips of the call quality, I knew going into it that they were not going to be used for that purpose.  That being said, I hope they release a firmware update to correct some of the mic issues.  This guy has a good review on some of the recent firmware updates (they did take down 1.3.0 update, so I'm stuck at 1.2.3 for now).
> 
> If I know I'm going to be on calls, I use my Plantronics BackBeat Pro 5100.  They work well for calls and still have good sound (I enjoy a little more bass than your typical "audiophile").



Thanks.  I also generally use the Plantronics 5100 for calls.  Would be great to have one set of earphones that did it all— great ANC, great sound, great mic/call quality, comfortable, IPX7, transparency, volume control, at least 8 hours of battery life — and reasonable price.  Is that too much to ask for?


----------



## d3myz

Initial Impressions of the Liberty Pro 2. Wow! They sound great so far. Been playing with the eq's and the hearing test EQ. I've done it a bunch of times and not liking the EQ it chooses for my ears. I find I prefer the flat or piano setting even the reduced bass setting. I really wish there was a way to manually EQ them. This is my first experience with a Knowles BA and it does sound really crisp and clean, but it can get quite bright. I haven't found it shrill, but I do prefer a little warmer treble signature, easily adjustable by eq. Lots of texture in the bass. Great punch and sub-bass. I'm hearing things in songs I've never heard before especially in the mid bass. I got the $100 early bird deal. I just compared them to the Tevi, the highs and mids are obviously much crisper, but I do have a new appreciation for the TEVI, but not at $90. the L2P is just a different animal, probably thanks to the BA? I'd happily pay $150 for these. The Fit feels great. I've tried 3-4 different tips and only complaint so far is the noise isolation isn't as good as some of my other TWS'. Phone calls are fine, I don't think sound as good as the Tranya T3, as far as hearing others, but I'm told the mic sounds good. I did notice that when I was talking at the same time as someone else, their voice cut out. so Far these are the best TWS' i've ever used. I really love them.


----------



## d3myz

mattedialdoc said:


> So what are you guys thinking so far about the soundcore liberty pro 2 ?
> 
> Mine arrived today. I’m charging them up currently, but I did try them out for a few songs.
> 
> ...


I'm Loving mine. Audio bliss.


----------



## d3myz

hifi80sman said:


> Looking forward to it.  Please comment on layering of sound and if it seems like their specific dual driver setup makes a difference.  @d3myz indicated it sounds like the crossover may have a dip effect in some of the mid-range frequencies.


Did I post that or did you read my mind? LOL. I did do the ear test and my left ear is quite a bit different than my right, I couldn't hear some of the freq. in the 3k range or in the 3-400hz range, so the eq boosted those, but the L2P's setting for me sound bad. I think the layering sounds fantastic. The natural eq of the unit is def. heavily V shaped, but with eq all the mids are there and they sound great.


----------



## CocaCola15 (Oct 11, 2019)

Ordered the Liberty Pro 2, had a $100 Amazon gift card (after returning the Tevi). Looking forward to hearing them, but I remain a Cambridge Audio M1 fan, as long as I can use foam tips with them. Will make a nice 1-2 TW collection I think (Have the Tranya T1 and the QCY TW too, but don't use them much). Thanks for the info. I can tweak them using the Kaiser Audio app on my phone; it's a great player, with a 20-band EQ option. Well worth the $10 price tag.


----------



## hifi80sman

rhsauer said:


> Thanks.  I also generally use the Plantronics 5100 for calls.  Would be great to have one set of earphones that did it all— great ANC, great sound, great mic/call quality, comfortable, IPX7, transparency, volume control, at least 8 hours of battery life — and reasonable price.  Is that too much to ask for?


Yes, that is too much to ask for.  

Also, you'll only have one TWS.  Who the heck wants just one?  TWS' are like Cheetos, can't have just one, bruh!


----------



## hifi80sman

Interesting review from Gamesky.


I have not tried the Liberty Pro 2, but I do have the Liberty Air 2, which he indicates sounds the same, with the same mic performance, etc.


----------



## The Apostle

Received my MPOW M5 today.  Sound pretty decent so far.  Capable of getting very loud.  Much more so than my 65t.  3 volume clicks on these seems about the same as 6 on my Jabra.  

One issue I'm noticing is variance in volume.  While streaming music the volume seems to be steady for a while then randomly go up and down.  

Anyone else have this issue?


----------



## hifi80sman

The Apostle said:


> Received my MPOW M5 today.  Sound pretty decent so far.  Capable of getting very loud.  Much more so than my 65t.  3 volume clicks on these seems about the same as 6 on my Jabra.
> 
> One issue I'm noticing is variance in volume.  While streaming music the volume seems to be steady for a while then randomly go up and down.
> 
> Anyone else have this issue?


Hmm, never had the volume issue.  What streaming service are you using?  You might want to check the connection settings within the app, as it may auto-reduce quality if your connection strength is low.


----------



## wizll

hifi80sman said:


> Interesting review from Gamesky.
> 
> 
> I have not tried the Liberty Pro 2, but I do have the Liberty Air 2, which he indicates sounds the same, with the same mic performance, etc.



he compared to non-pro liberty 2 though


----------



## hifi80sman

wizll said:


> he compared to non-pro liberty 2 though


Ahh, totally whiffed on that!  Nice catch.


----------



## The Apostle

hifi80sman said:


> Hmm, never had the volume issue.  What streaming service are you using?  You might want to check the connection settings within the app, as it may auto-reduce quality if your connection strength is low.



I was streaming the iHeart Radio App.  The volume variance is very subtle.  Almost like when a car is set to adjust for road noise.  Everytime it adjusts it's smooth and slow, not abrupt.


----------



## Luchyres

Catching up....



Caipirina said:


> Maybe the DDs also needed some more burn in, but I was really taken aback by how little bass came through ... could always be a fit issue on top of that, this is always a problem for me with in store auditioning ... but i.e. when I tried a powerbeats a few days ago, I was impressed beyond expectations by both, the quantity while maintaining quality of the bass. I think it has a lot to do with expectations .. maybe I wanted too much from the Shanling ..
> 
> funny though how I did not appreciate my Mifo in the beginning, and now they are in my top 5    Just sounds fuller IMHO



Thank you for this - I'm having a hard time finding DD Shanling MTW100 impressions - I appreciate it! let me know if the bass improves for you with time or tips please!



rhsauer said:


> Anyone else find that the outgoing call quality on the Sony WF-1000xM3 is horrible?  Wondering if I just have a bad set, or I’m missing a setting — or the call quality is just bad.  Diappointing, because I would have thought that the ANC mics would have allowed good ambient noise reduction on calls — but that seems to be anything but the case.





hifi80sman said:


> No, you don;t have a bad pair.  The call quality is nothing to write home about.  When testing the call quality, the volume is fine, but your voice may come across as somewhat muffled.  Still intelligible, but definitely not something I would choose to use if I'm going to be on calls frequently.  For travel and taking a call here and there, they'll do.  Watching numerous YouTube clips of the call quality, I knew going into it that they were not going to be used for that purpose.  That being said, I hope they release a firmware update to correct some of the mic issues.  This guy has a good review on some of the recent firmware updates (they did take down 1.3.0 update, so I'm stuck at 1.2.3 for now).
> 
> If I know I'm going to be on calls, I use my Plantronics BackBeat Pro 5100.  They work well for calls and still have good sound (I enjoy a little more bass than your typical "audiophile").




I agree - my call quality with the Sony's was actually worse than I had anticipated - I just thought they were really going to crush it (with no reason for thinking that) but I was disappointed - not unusable, but very good. 

I'm interested to try these Backbeats....




hifi80sman said:


> Looking forward to it.  Please comment on layering of sound and if it seems like their specific dual driver setup makes a difference.  @d3myz indicated it sounds like the crossover may have a dip effect in some of the mid-range frequencies.



Hah! I got you this time, @hifi80sman - should I be disappointed that you didn't remember that it was I who claimed that they were somehow both bright/compressed in the treble with a seeming dip in the mids!   



d3myz said:


> Initial Impressions of the Liberty Pro 2. Wow! They sound great so far. Been playing with the eq's and the hearing test EQ. I've done it a bunch of times and not liking the EQ it chooses for my ears. I find I prefer the flat or piano setting even the reduced bass setting. I really wish there was a way to manually EQ them. This is my first experience with a Knowles BA and it does sound really crisp and clean, but it can get quite bright. I haven't found it shrill, but I do prefer a little warmer treble signature, easily adjustable by eq. Lots of texture in the bass. Great punch and sub-bass. I'm hearing things in songs I've never heard before especially in the mid bass. I got the $100 early bird deal. I just compared them to the Tevi, the highs and mids are obviously much crisper, but I do have a new appreciation for the TEVI, but not at $90. the L2P is just a different animal, probably thanks to the BA? I'd happily pay $150 for these. The Fit feels great. I've tried 3-4 different tips and only complaint so far is the noise isolation isn't as good as some of my other TWS'. Phone calls are fine, I don't think sound as good as the Tranya T3, as far as hearing others, but I'm told the mic sounds good. I did notice that when I was talking at the same time as someone else, their voice cut out. so Far these are the best TWS' i've ever used. I really love them.





d3myz said:


> Did I post that or did you read my mind? LOL. I did do the ear test and my left ear is quite a bit different than my right, I couldn't hear some of the freq. in the 3k range or in the 3-400hz range, so the eq boosted those, but the L2P's setting for me sound bad. I think the layering sounds fantastic. The natural eq of the unit is def. heavily V shaped, but with eq all the mids are there and they sound great.



Thank you for the impressions! It seems our experience or subjective tastes differ - (I prefer darker/basshead signatures) - what do you think of the Vocal Boost preset? 

For me, I found that the spike in treble resulted in some songs being hard to listen to above a certain volume - somewhat piercing. Can you try "Black Truck" by Mereba and Floor Seats by A$AP Ferg and let me know what you think of the vocals/treble compared with your TEVI? I love bass, and even enjoy the extra bass of the LPro2 - but my perceived mid dip and compressed/peaky highs are what's making me think I may send them back/or that I need to let the BA burn in or something. It's like a too small tweeter paired with a big Subwoofer to my ears lol.


----------



## hifi80sman

Luchyres said:


> Hah! I got you this time, @hifi80sman - should I be disappointed that you didn't remember that it was I who claimed that they were somehow both bright/compressed in the treble with a seeming dip in the mids!





Luchyres said:


> For me, I found that the spike in treble resulted in some songs being hard to listen to above a certain volume - somewhat piercing. Can you try "Black Truck" by Mereba and Floor Seats by A$AP Ferg and let me know what you think of the vocals/treble compared with your TEVI? I love bass, and even enjoy the extra bass of the LPro2 - but my perceived mid dip and compressed/peaky highs are what's making me think I may send them back/or that I need to let the BA burn in or something. It's like a too small tweeter paired with a big Subwoofer to my ears lol.


LOL!  

Yeah, sounds like I enjoy a signature that's close to what you like.  Treble sensitive, so I tend to enjoy a bit of roll off on the high end with nice meat in the middle and face-slapping lows.


----------



## vstolpner

hifi80sman said:


> Yes, that is too much to ask for.
> 
> Also, you'll only have one TWS.  Who the heck wants just one?  TWS' are like Cheetos, can't have just one, bruh!



You mean like Pringles? One you pop you can't stop... at just one TWS


----------



## rhsauer (Oct 11, 2019)

hifi80sman said:


> Interesting review from Gamesky.
> 
> 
> I have not tried the Liberty Pro 2, but I do have the Liberty Air 2, which he indicates sounds the same, with the same mic performance, etc.




I think this guy is reviewing the Liberty 2, not the Liberty 2 Pro (which has the coaxial dual driver setup).

Edit:  Nevermind — I see this has been covered.  Sorry


----------



## hifi80sman

rhsauer said:


> I think this guy is reviewing the Liberty 2, not the Liberty 2 Pro (which has the coaxial dual driver setup).
> 
> Edit:  Nevermind — I see this has been covered.  Sorry


Yeah, I got ahead of myself and turned into a Hypebeast.  That's what happens when you load up with 2 Rockstars in the afternoon.  The glossy case should have been an eye opener, but admittedly, I was distracted by screaming children arguing about who was where first.  Good times.


----------



## Luchyres

rhsauer said:


> I think this guy is reviewing the Liberty 2, not the Liberty 2 Pro (which has the coaxial dual driver setup).
> 
> Edit:  Nevermind — I see this has been covered.  Sorry



I'd actually consider the Liberty 2 a shot given I don't love the 2 Pro and I suspect it's due to the DD/BA crossover - I love the form factor/case (buds could be a bit smaller) but I'm actually considering it after this review....


----------



## The Apostle

*2019 Upgraded, Anker Soundcore Liberty Neo are currently$34 on Amazon.  Only in Black.  Blue is $20 more. *


----------



## Tavleen Suri

I think they


The Apostle said:


> *2019 Upgraded, Anker Soundcore Liberty Neo are currently$34 on Amazon.  Only in Black.  Blue is $20 more. *


Think they are 29 actually...there s a 5 usd coupon to addon


----------



## Tavleen Suri

Jabra elite 75t preorder on jabra website for 144


----------



## mjb152

Jabra Elite 75t are £169.99 preorder in the UK, thats some price difference !    (the US equivalent is £113 , ignoring sales tax)


----------



## BigZ12

mjb152 said:


> Jabra Elite 75t are £169.99 preorder in the UK, thats some price difference !    (the US equivalent is £113 , ignoring sales tax)


NOK 1990,- here in Norway. (that's US $219...)


----------



## mjb152

Think I'm doing too much reserach and not enough buying    I managed to get a friend to bring some Anbes 359 over a few months ago, and I really really like them.  The button covers came off and I glued them back,   but I'm looking for the next pair.   This is my current list,  what else should I be considering ?  (its a UK purchase)

Shanling MTW100 $89
Lypertek Tevi True Wireless   £99
Sabbat E12 Ultra £65
Anker Liberty pro 2 $149
Galaxy Buds £99
Soundcore liberty air pro 2 £149


----------



## HiFlight

Tavleen Suri said:


> Jabra elite 75t preorder on jabra website for 144a


I still show the pre-order price to be $179.99.  Could you please drop a link for the $144.00 as I paid $179.99 and would like for an adjustment to be made by Jabra.


----------



## Caipirina

Luchyres said:


> Catching up....
> 
> 
> Thank you for this - I'm having a hard time finding DD Shanling MTW100 impressions - I appreciate it! let me know if the bass improves for you with time or tips please!



Did not buy either, so will not be able to share further impressions.


----------



## vstolpner

mjb152 said:


> Think I'm doing too much reserach and not enough buying    I managed to get a friend to bring some Anbes 359 over a few months ago, and I really really like them.  The button covers came off and I glued them back,   but I'm looking for the next pair.   This is my current list,  what else should I be considering ?  (its a UK purchase)
> 
> Shanling MTW100 $89
> Lypertek Tevi True Wireless   £99
> ...



I have a feeling these will be under your price range, but Mpow T5 or Tranya B530.


----------



## CrusaderIce

HiFlight said:


> I still show the pre-order price to be $179.99.  Could you please drop a link for the $144.00 as I paid $179.99 and would like for an adjustment to be made by Jabra.


Use code 19081010off and code *CPERKS20 to get it down to 129 + tax*


----------



## vstolpner

So seems like this is old news, but I just realised that Mpow has a T6 model... Anyone tried them? How do they compare?

C$ 45.74  40%OFF | Mpow T6 Bluetooth 5.0 TWS Earphone Wireless Handsfree Earphones Mini Earbuds IPX7 Waterproof With 21H Playtime Touch Control New
https://s.click.aliexpress.com/e/6EBCK0bP9


----------



## HiFlight

CrusaderIce said:


> Use code 19081010off and code *CPERKS20 to get it down to 129 *


Thanks...
Jabra will be hearing from me first thing Monday!


----------



## howdy

I finally bought a new phone (see ya later LGV20) and it has Android 10 on it, where do you find the area to change codecs? I do not see an area that has the Developer options. TIA


----------



## willyk

howdy said:


> I finally bought a new phone (see ya later LGV20) and it has Android 10 on it, where do you find the area to change codecs? I do not see an area that has the Developer options. TIA


Just tap Build Number 7 times...
https://www.digitaltrends.com/mobile/how-to-get-developer-options-on-android/
Don't forget to tap your heels 3 times as well!


----------



## Blotto80

If anyone is looking for a cheaper set of Shanling MTW100, I'm letting mine go. Not my cup of tea and I don't like to collect. Would rather just have a single pair that does it all for me.

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/shanling-mtw100-ba-tws.916889/


----------



## Luchyres (Oct 12, 2019)

I think I finally spotted a TRN T200 on Amazon... for $54.99




@Bartig - did yours ever come in? I haven't seen many impressions online, but I'm curious to try them now that I don't have to wait for the Ali delay... 

Edit: Nevermind, arrives 10/29 - 11/14 so still delay.


----------



## geardoc

Enough with the cheap ones already.   What's new in the top end of the line?  ie,  $200, 300, 400, 500 or more or   >$1000 if there is such a thing? 

If there is one thing I've learned.  Buying cheap ones costs me more in the end.  One or two cheap ones, another 2-3 mid priced ones and then finally the best one, all added up together costs more than just jumping to the best one.

Yes, I know wireless is different because of the severe compromises and technology is changing quickly, but, come on, we've had Bluetooth for decades now.


----------



## clerkpalmer (Oct 12, 2019)

geardoc said:


> Enough with the cheap ones already.   What's new in the top end of the line?  ie,  $200, 300, 400, 500 or more or   >$1000 if there is such a thing?
> 
> If there is one thing I've learned.  Buying cheap ones costs me more in the end.  One or two cheap ones, another 2-3 mid priced ones and then finally the best one, all added up together costs more than just jumping to the best one.
> 
> Yes, I know wireless is different because of the severe compromises and technology is changing quickly, but, come on, we've had Bluetooth for decades now.



Sadly I agree with you but there isn't anything new in 2019 in the high end camp. Everything is a retread or disappointing.  The sony sucks.  The new jabra offers no sq improvement.  We are waiting on mw07 plus and new bose with ANC. All the innovations are at the chi fi level. But you are right, I have thrown away several hundred in the past months buying cheapies and while fun, they are all basically the same. Someone like Sony needs to offer a high end tw with waterproofing and LDAC. Enough already.  I dont care if the battery lasts 2 hours. Just give me what i want. For now, the best money spent is on a  bt20s plus a well matched iem.


----------



## kelter (Oct 15, 2019)

With the arrival opportunity to buy from chinese sellers almost directly, famous 150$ earphone may sounded like 50$ chinese who not spent the rest 100$ on marketing. Yes, some technologies is unique and that cost money, but if look only to sound quality some sony or jabra models will be incomparable with them. So why i must pay more for marketing?

ps. who wants mifo o5 pro for 59$ there are deal https://www.joybuy.com/654140046.html usual price is about 75. On ebay discount available too. That NOT all the same with shanling MTW100, i was wrong. There are review https://medium.com/@vstolpner/shanling-mtw100-ba-knowles-bas-in-a-chi-fi-shell-25a3a5a32e57


----------



## geardoc

Kelter, your point about marketing is a good one.    If the Chinese direct offered a $500 one that would have cost $1000 in the US, then I'd be paying attention, but a $50/$150 headphone is still a relatively poor audiophile choice.  

This is headfi.  Sorry about your wallet.


----------



## mattedialdoc

Luchyres said:


> I think I finally spotted a TRN T200 on Amazon... for $54.99
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Oooh can’t wait to hear about those too!


----------



## voicemaster

Just received my tranya b530 and ootb it sounds pretty good. Clear high and mid, bass is slightly elevated but not bloated. This remind me of qcy t1c's sound with more extended high. Going to burn in the driver and see how it sounds.


----------



## cigarello

Hey guys are the anbes 359 still considered the best tws under $50?


----------



## vstolpner

cigarello said:


> Hey guys are the anbes 359 still considered the best tws under $50?



I would give the crown to Mpow T5 for that. They're both great but the T5 has stronger bass, tends to be more clear on aptX, and somewhat more polished overall.


----------



## Caipirina

geardoc said:


> Enough with the cheap ones already.   What's new in the top end of the line?


Waiting for the Bose 700 TWS  Bose knows ANC! 

And I do like their thumpy house sound


----------



## willyk

vstolpner said:


> I would give the crown to Mpow T5 for that. They're both great but the T5 has stronger bass, tends to be more clear on aptX, and somewhat more polished overall.



MPow T5's are hard to beat, even at a much higher price range.


----------



## Stephan

vstolpner said:


> I would give the crown to Mpow T5 for that. They're both great but the T5 has stronger bass, tends to be more clear on aptX, and somewhat more polished overall.



I think the Anbes sound better than the Mpow T5, I thought the T5's soundstage was too closed in and narrow. They did everything ok, but nothing special. I returned them, kept the Bomakers, SSK (Anbes clone), and Ofushos, they all have a different but great sound.


----------



## cwill

Stephan said:


> I think the Anbes sound better than the Mpow T5, I thought the T5's soundstage was too closed in and narrow. They did everything ok, but nothing special. I returned them, kept the Bomakers, SSK (Anbes clone), and Ofushos, they all have a different but great sound.


Perfectly stated. This is exactly how I feel about the T5's.


----------



## vstolpner

Stephan said:


> I think the Anbes sound better than the Mpow T5, I thought the T5's soundstage was too closed in and narrow. They did everything ok, but nothing special. I returned them, kept the Bomakers, SSK (Anbes clone), and Ofushos, they all have a different but great sound.



To reach their own. I do agree the Anbes sound more open and airy but I prefer the sound signature of the T5 overall. What I don't prefer is the case of the T5's - ridiculously huge....


----------



## kelter

geardoc said:


> but a $50/$150 headphone is still a relatively poor audiophile choice.


If we talk about audiophile, they will not choise between cables and non-cables, its obvious. Before i use er4s with very fat litz-cu cable+dacport hd is about 3 years (earlier i tried more headphones and dac/daps) and i have found more practical thing like sabbat x12 pro. Yes, there are a bit sound degradation but its not disgusting and much more comfortable.


----------



## georgelai57

From this screenshot off the Lypertek website, it has TWS+, and I know that, at least on an iPhone’s BT Settings screen, you will see the Tevi L or R, but only one will be seen as connected. I suspect whichever ear bud was taken out of the charging case first and hence connected first. Does this mean that for those TWS earbuds where L and R are not shown separately, it is only plain vanilla TWS (master/slave type) and the BT signal is being blasted through one’s head from the master earbud to the slave earbud?


----------



## FYLegend

Tavleen Suri said:


> Jabra elite 75t preorder on jabra website for 144


229$ CAD, exclusive to Best Buy Canada.=/


----------



## vstolpner

georgelai57 said:


> From this screenshot off the Lypertek website, it has TWS+, and I know that, at least on an iPhone’s BT Settings screen, you will see the Tevi L or R, but only one will be seen as connected. I suspect whichever ear bud was taken out of the charging case first and hence connected first. Does this mean that for those TWS earbuds where L and R are not shown separately, it is only plain vanilla TWS (master/slave type) and the BT signal is being blasted through one’s head from the master earbud to the slave earbud?




I suspect that even in the case of the lypertek you mention, they act as master/slave. Easy way to check: listen to music with them in your ears and then fully cup one ear with your hand (this should interfere with the signal and cut out the music), then cup the other ear. If each war cuts out separately then it's connected separately but if for one ear cuts out music to both then it's master/slave.


----------



## Caipirina (Oct 13, 2019)

Randomly my current top 5, in no particular order

- KZ T1 ... still loving the clarity and soundsig in general ... would love them more if they had IPX, did not feature that volume hump and that annoying left/right switch in box 

- Anbes 359/SSK BT03. Overall still the best package for running for me. One factor that is not often discussed here is wether a set of TWS are 'RELIABLE'!!! Nothing sucks more than starting the run and it turned out that the buds shifted in box the night before and discharged, or for whatever other reason they decide to disconnect during run and you would need to put them back into box to 'reset', of course you don't have that with you while running ... even with my Mpow and Tranya I have such issues sometimes, with the Anbes/SSK I never had any such surprises. Great sound / fit / connection

- Mifo 05 (BA). Took some burn in and time for me to fall in love with them. Great sound isolation, even using it on flights now instead of my Bose QC35. Only peeve is that they gently hurt after 3h ...

- Bonola ANC. Really liking those guys for sound quality, fit and that ANC is actually useful (also tested on recent flight). Not qualified for running though, on IPX and the fit feels a bit loose with the sticky-outy weight, don't want to find out if they stay in place.

- Haylou GT1. These got a lot of time in rotation recently because the case is just so darn pocketable! They also sound nice, fit well, and again, very reliable! Also good for running.

Yes, I also still very much like my Mpow, Tranya, (for bass / running), Blitzwolf (another very pocketable set), Syllable ... and I need to spend more time with UiiSii (more for classical), Ytom, Nilkin Go ...

Curious to see other top 5, or top 3 ... or Top 20


----------



## kelter

Caipirina said:


> Mifo 05 (BA)


What you recommend to buy, mifo o5 pro or KZ T1? I cares only about sound quality. Will be better only BA or hybrid? In KZ low frequencies prevails too much? Do you hear sabbat x12 pro? How do they sound compared to others? Thanks.


----------



## Caipirina (Oct 13, 2019)

kelter said:


> What you recommend to buy, mifo o5 pro or KZ T1? I cares only about sound quality. Will be better only BA or hybrid? In KZ low frequencies prevails too much? Do you hear sabbat x12 pro? How do they sound compared to others? Thanks.



For sound quality alone I would rate the KZ higher, but as many have reported there is an annoying something with the volume ... as if there are only a few steps, like 10% 40% 70% and full blast ... this can be rather tricky sometimes when you find yourself between 'too low' and 'too loud' depending on your music / environment.

But give it 1-2 days, I shall get my KZ E10 tomorrow .. and let's see how that one fares. 

You might also want to explore the TRN BT20 + your favorite IEM option.


----------



## vstolpner

kelter said:


> What you recommend to buy, mifo o5 pro or KZ T1? I cares only about sound quality. Will be better only BA or hybrid? In KZ low frequencies prevails too much? Do you hear sabbat x12 pro? How do they sound compared to others? Thanks.



Can't comment on the KZ T1, but just wanted to say that the Shanling MTW100 BA is superior to the mifo O5 Professional. The Shanling has better bass response, more pocketable case, and audio passthrough to say the least. I do a more thorough comparison in my review (see signature)


----------



## Slater

Caipirina said:


> For sound quality alone I would rate the KZ higher, but as many have reported there is an annoying something with the volume ... as if there are only a few steps, like 10% 40% 70% and full blast ... this can be rather tricky sometimes when you find yourself between 'too low' and 'too loud' depending on your music / environment.
> 
> But give it 1-2 days, I shall get my KZ E10 tomorrow .. and let's see how that one fares.
> 
> You might also want to explore the TRN BT20 + your favorite IEM option.



Wasn’t the different steps only on 1 operating system (like Android)? I seem to remember there being cases where the “steps” were spaced normally.

Or maybe I’m thinking of controlling the volume from the phone, vs controlling it from the earbuds.


----------



## Caipirina

Slater said:


> Wasn’t the different steps only on 1 operating system (like Android)? I seem to remember there being cases where the “steps” were spaced normally.
> 
> Or maybe I’m thinking of controlling the volume from the phone, vs controlling it from the earbuds.



that was my initial thought as well. “Oh, that only applies to those triple taps on the buds” , but then after reading all the hoopla here I confirmed that this is also true on iOS when using the volume buttons of my phone ...


----------



## Slater

Caipirina said:


> that was my initial thought as well. “Oh, that only applies to those triple taps on the buds” , but then after reading all the hoopla here I confirmed that this is also true on iOS when using the volume buttons of my phone ...



Ouch, that sucks


----------



## cwill

BigZ12 said:


> It's "dangerous" to recommend tips for others, but I really love my Anbes 359 with Comply Truegrip Pro tips.
> Just been out on a long walk, with some running (in the shadows  ) and wow! How good are these buds!?!. Soundstage, fit/comfort, bass etc... Maybe the best "gadget" I've bought, value for money wise.
> 
> On a side note: I've connected both the QCY T2C and Anbes with my Apple Watch 4G, and both can get out of phase when using the watch crown to adjust the volume. Strange, but luckily I know why they get out of phase. Just adjust it again with the buds (Anbes) or on the watch screen.


What size TrueGrip Pro fits these?


----------



## FYLegend

There's a new version of the YTOM-T1 (variant of Wavefun X-Pods) with a Wireless Charging case.

C$ 45.81  51%OFF | YTOM T1 Pro APTX TWS Bluetooth 5.0 Wireless Earphone Earbuds With Wilress Charging Function TYPE C Super Bass HD Mic Headset
https://s.click.aliexpress.com/e/t6PJfIW8


----------



## BigZ12

cwill said:


> What size TrueGrip Pro fits these?


There was only one size of the TrueGrip Pro when I bought them for the Senn' MTWs. Guess it was mediums. 
They were too small for the MTWs, (good fit but bad seal), but I remember I really liked them for the Anbes (before I ruined them, when I tried to glue the rubber lids on again).
I've developed a bit since June I see... soundstage, best buds etc  But the 359s are still amongst the best ref quality / value/ price.


----------



## cwill

BigZ12 said:


> There was only one size of the TrueGrip Pro when I bought them for the Senn' MTWs. Guess it was mediums.
> They were too small for the MTWs, (good fit but bad seal), but I remember I really liked them for the Anbes (before I ruined them, when I tried to glue the rubber lids on again).
> I've developed a bit since June I see... soundstage, best buds etc  But the 359s are still amongst the best ref quality / value/ price.


Thank you!


----------



## david8613

FYLegend said:


> There's a new version of the YTOM-T1 (variant of Wavefun X-Pods) with a Wireless Charging case.
> 
> C$ 45.81  51%OFF | YTOM T1 Pro APTX TWS Bluetooth 5.0 Wireless Earphone Earbuds With Wilress Charging Function TYPE C Super Bass HD Mic Headset
> https://s.click.aliexpress.com/e/t6PJfIW8




How do these sound compared to the anbes 359 and tranya t3? These are my favorites right now and 30.00 is always my budget for tw chfi.  Any anbes 359 killers in this price range? Love the sound sigs of my anbes and tranya.also the fit in my ears are awesome!


----------



## D3soLaT3

Looks like a few more clones of the Anbes are starting to pop up. This time in a grey and black color scheme. Take a look at them here and here on amazon. According to this Alibaba page, they seem to be the same variant as the SSK, notice the grey/black model on the same page as the white/orange model. Furthermore, looks like a QCC 3020 variant will be arriving soon (as someone on this thread previously mentioned) as the BE30Q. Manufacture/seller is Dogo.


----------



## BigZ12

cwill said:


> Thank you!


But as I've learned since I was bit by the TWS bug, it's difficult (and dangerous as I wrote in the post you replied to) to recommend tips to others. 
I have also tried a lot of tips since then, and I don't know if the Comply Truegrip is the best to go for now. 
If you like foam, and you're a typical medium sized silicone tip user, I guess you will like them regardless.


----------



## howdy

Best Buy has the Powerbeats Pro for $200 this week. I think I may pick these up instead of the MW07+. I really think the fit of the MW07+ will be the same as the 1st and it wont fit my right ear correctly.


----------



## LordToneeus

howdy said:


> Best Buy has the Powerbeats Pro for $200 this week. I think I may pick these up instead of the MW07+. I really think the fit of the MW07+ will be the same as the 1st and it wont fit my right ear correctly.



I have been tempted all week to pick them up! I am just so afraid they’ll disappoint compared to my BT20s + Westone UM Pro 30. They are my current go-to training pair. Still, I love the moss green Powerbeats. 

If you do pick them up, I’d love to hear your thoughts on the sound.


----------



## howdy

LordToneeus said:


> I have been tempted all week to pick them up! I am just so afraid they’ll disappoint compared to my BT20s + Westone UM Pro 30. They are my current go-to training pair. Still, I love the moss green Powerbeats.
> 
> If you do pick them up, I’d love to hear your thoughts on the sound.


I doubt they'll be better than what you listed above but they will be different and from what I heard, very reliable.
I also want them as I have a iPod touch that seldomly gets used and want to use more.


----------



## jasaero

D3soLaT3 said:


> Looks like a few more clones of the Anbes are starting to pop up. This time in a grey and black color scheme. Take a look at them here and here on amazon. According to this Alibaba page, they seem to be the same variant as the SSK, notice the grey/black model on the same page as the white/orange model. Furthermore, looks like a QCC 3020 variant will be arriving soon (as someone on this thread previously mentioned) as the BE30Q. Manufacture/seller is Dogo.



This had me curious about the QCC3020 ones so I looked them up on Alibaba.  Looks like they are essentially just looking for the first takers to brand/market this version probably.  Looks to have better button design that isn't thin rubber and metal or harder plastic or maybe capacitive.  Don't claim touch though so suspect it's just a change to try and get the button to last better and I guess maybe make it more clear it's the Qualcomm one.  These chinese firms happy to make and iterate little widgets and sell them unbranded/unmarketed in bulk at commodity sorta margins when they are still a fresh and not super mature tech other huge firms are trying to boast about with crazy branding and markups fascinate me. 

https://www.alibaba.com/product-det...spm=a2700.supplier-normal.35.9.41c84926CcfoGF

BTW, they will sell you a single sample for $18+whatever you can get them to agree to for shipping also.


----------



## vladzakhar

My thoughts after 3 days using Liberty 2 Pros:

+ Very good sound, not with stock tips, though.
   Beautiful case, compact and I love how the cover works.
   Super comfy with right tips and wings.
   Love physical buttons on the top of earphones, easy to press.

-  Isolation is so so, definitely not for the noisy bus or train commute.
   Battery usage info in the app doesn't have percentage

For $99 it'd definitely the keeper.


----------



## XGUGU

georgelai57 said:


> From this screenshot off the Lypertek website, it has TWS+, and I know that, at least on an iPhone’s BT Settings screen, you will see the Tevi L or R, but only one will be seen as connected. I suspect whichever ear bud was taken out of the charging case first and hence connected first. Does this mean that for those TWS earbuds where L and R are not shown separately, it is only plain vanilla TWS (master/slave type) and the BT signal is being blasted through one’s head from the master earbud to the slave earbud?


TWS+ in not a codec that iPhones handle. Not even most Android s. Here is what you need to see in your device for TWS+


----------



## gibletzor

Those of you with the Lypertek Tevi, has anyone used them connected to a PC to test audio latency on Youtube or VLC?


----------



## mattedialdoc

vladzakhar said:


> My thoughts after 3 days using Liberty 2 Pros:
> 
> + Very good sound, not with stock tips, though.
> Beautiful case, compact and I love how the cover works.
> ...




What tips are you using??


----------



## vladzakhar

Not sure, some old celicon tips I found in my drawer. They came with one of TWS  I bought before.


----------



## Caipirina (Oct 13, 2019)

PSA:
Found a ‘too good to be true’ deal on the Whizzer B6.
35.21$ after coupons. Firmly expecting slow as sedated snail shipping and possibly ending in dispute. But hey ... if anyone wants to take the plunge 


Never seen coupons based on member level before ...


----------



## FYLegend (Oct 13, 2019)

jasaero said:


> This had me curious about the QCC3020 ones so I looked them up on Alibaba.  Looks like they are essentially just looking for the first takers to brand/market this version probably.  Looks to have better button design that isn't thin rubber and metal or harder plastic or maybe capacitive.  Don't claim touch though so suspect it's just a change to try and get the button to last better and I guess maybe make it more clear it's the Qualcomm one.  These chinese firms happy to make and iterate little widgets and sell them unbranded/unmarketed in bulk at commodity sorta margins when they are still a fresh and not super mature tech other huge firms are trying to boast about with crazy branding and markups fascinate me.
> 
> https://www.alibaba.com/product-det...spm=a2700.supplier-normal.35.9.41c84926CcfoGF
> 
> BTW, they will sell you a single sample for $18+whatever you can get them to agree to for shipping also.



Is Smart the same company as DOGO or are they different companies manufacturing the same thing? Dogo previously inquired me about getting a few things shipped but it seemed they wanted them in bulk.

Would have been golden if they had added Qi charging to the case. I just hope it's not the same a Kanoe, and I'm curious whether they support a PD charging connection (the Anbes 359/BE30 does not). Those fake Type C USB2.0 connections on cheap TWS are about to become useless a Google requires PD compliance for new phones and manufacturers bundle PD chargers instead of Type A.



Caipirina said:


> PSA:
> Found a ‘too good to be true’ deal on the Whizzer B6. 36.21$ after coupons. Firmly expecting slow as sedated snail shipping and possibly ending in dispute. But hey ... if anyone wants to take the plunge


I thought I saw it under 55$ CAD or 41$ USD  a few day ago, not sure if it was the same seller but that name does sound familiar. I'm wondering whether Whizzer is tuned differently than the other B6's and if ALL of them support AAC or not.

EDIT: It was this store. There's ePacket for 3$  so it should only take ~10-14 days to Canada.


----------



## cwill (Oct 14, 2019)

FYLegend said:


> Is Smart the same company as DOGO or are they different companies manufacturing the same thing? Dogo previously inquired me about getting a few things shipped but it seemed they wanted them in bulk.
> 
> Would have been golden if they had added Qi charging to the case. I just hope it's not the same a Kanoe, and I'm curious whether they support a PD charging connection (the Anbes 359/BE30 does not). Those fake Type C USB2.0 connections on cheap TWS are about to become useless a Google requires PD compliance for new phones and manufacturers bundle PD chargers instead of Type A.
> 
> ...


Is something wrong with the Kanoe? I just ordered them...should I cancel?


----------



## Caipirina (Oct 13, 2019)

FYLegend said:


> I thought I saw it under 55$ CAD or 41$ USD  a few day ago, not sure if it was the same seller but that name does sound familiar. I'm wondering whether Whizzer is tuned differently than the other B6's and if ALL of them support AAC or not.
> 
> EDIT: It was this store. There's ePacket for 3$  so it should only take ~10-14 days to Canada.



Dang, should have checked the shipping options ... ah well, not in a rush.
Listing claims AptX, QC3020, IPX7, wireless charging ...

we shall see 

EDIT: So far Dola Dola seems quick and proactive, good sign!


 

Unfortunately e-packet for 3$ is not available for my location ... and the quicker Fedex / DHL options are just out of reasonable price range ... not sure if China Post is any better than 'Seller's shipping method' ... I asked back what they use ...


----------



## mattedialdoc (Oct 13, 2019)

Has anyone ordered from these guys? Fasttech? Seems like a good deal.


----------



## geardoc (Oct 13, 2019)

kelter said:


> If we talk about audiophile, they will not choise between cables and non-cables, its obvious. Before i use er4s with very fat litz-cu cable+dacport hd is about 3 years (earlier i tried more headphones and dac/daps) and i have found more practical thing like sabbat x12 pro. Yes, there are a bit sound degradation but its not disgusting and much more comfortable.



I'm familiar with the ER4s and other wired IEMs.   Agreed, in a different class.

How would you compare the sabbat x12 pro to something that we might have heard in common, like maybe the Apple Airpods?

I'm still worried, that we all will end up spending $50 each on 10 pairs of crappy wireless IEMs.    I'll just save my $500 until good wireless ones come along.


----------



## Blueshound24

geardoc said:


> Enough with the cheap ones already.   What's new in the top end of the line?  ie,  $200, 300, 400, 500 or more or   >$1000 if there is such a thing?
> 
> If there is one thing I've learned.  Buying cheap ones costs me more in the end.  One or two cheap ones, another 2-3 mid priced ones and then finally the best one, all added up together costs more than just jumping to the best one.
> 
> Yes, I know wireless is different because of the severe compromises and technology is changing quickly, but, come on, we've had Bluetooth for decades now.




Agreed. I don't want to buy a bunch of $60 TWS, with the resulting $60 quality sound. By the time you have racked a few up you could have just bought the Senn Momentum TWS and had something to show for your trouble, albeit still not TOTL.


----------



## Caipirina

Blueshound24 said:


> Agreed. I don't want to buy a bunch of $60 TWS, with the resulting $60 quality sound. By the time you have racked a few up you could have just bought the Senn Momentum TWS and had something to show for your trouble, albeit still not TOTL.



I guess to each their own ...
I just like having the variety. And from personal experience, name brands like Jabra and Bose are not a guarantee for better longevity. Good when you have easy connection to authorized sellers locally (which I don't) and can claim warranty. I managed to get my Jabra Elite Sport exchanged once, but that new set also died rather quickly.


----------



## jasaero

FYLegend said:


> Is Smart the same company as DOGO or are they different companies manufacturing the same thing? Dogo previously inquired me about getting a few things shipped but it seemed they wanted them in bulk.
> 
> Would have been golden if they had added Qi charging to the case. I just hope it's not the same a Kanoe, and I'm curious whether they support a PD charging connection (the Anbes 359/BE30 does not). Those fake Type C USB2.0 connections on cheap TWS are about to become useless a Google requires PD compliance for new phones and manufacturers bundle PD chargers instead of Type A.
> 
> ...



You can find the Dogo BE30q listings also.  I suspect they are related.  Dogo seems to be higher price slightly.  And even Dogo has a few listing of this same BE30q and another BE30q.  No clue why all the different listings and 2 different companies offering. Almost like you have A and B crews/companies using same design supplier and and such and just 2 different assembly operations.  Who knows, maybe one is first shift and one second?  Haha.


----------



## Caipirina (Oct 14, 2019)

They have arrived!

some very first impressions:
- Case feels heavy (especially for the all plastic look. Need to double check what battery they stuck in there. EDIT: 1100mAh)
- they dropped volume control! Why??? Triple click now redials last number and I was suddenly talking to my cat's vet again 
- they are LOUD! I can barely listen to over 30/40%
Tried to see if there is a volume hump which does not seem to be the case. Could not get over 60% without risking my eardrums.
 - fit for me with the shorter TWS tips is a bit awkward. But SpinFits on now and they sit perfectly fine. If they still fit into the case I will check later, but as I type I am enjoying some really sweet sounds. (EDIT: checked and they do NOT fit back in the case with SpinFits on!)
- as for the sound: for now let’s say ‘very promising!’ . Right now they sound like they need some burn in. But right out of box I did not notice anything off. Somewhat balanced with a slight V-curve, clear and detailed. I wonder if it’s the upper mids or highs that I am hoping to get tamed a bit over time.
- it’s weird that for first time pairing the buds have to be in box
- I did some walking around with phone in pocket and could not replicate El Jeffe’s connection woes. Seems solid.
- look at the bud shape, did not see from product pics that it has this little hook at the end (not talking about the obvious earhook, but that little bump that also the NillkinGo have)

for straight out of box I am very happy and optimistic that they will warm up a bit. They feel just an ever so slight tad bright to me at the moment.


----------



## Rob E.

mattedialdoc said:


> Has anyone ordered from these guys? Fasttech? Seems like a good deal.



Fasttech is reliable, but I can't speak for how _fast_ they are.


----------



## Rob E.

geardoc said:


> I'm familiar with the ER4s and other wired IEMs.   Agreed, in a different class.
> 
> How would you compare the sabbat x12 pro to something that we might have heard in common, like maybe the Apple Airpods?
> 
> *I'm still worried, that we all will end up spending $50 each on 10 pairs of crappy wireless IEMs.    I'll just save my $500 until good wireless ones come along.*



Better double your budget. One=None, Two=One. Always good to have a backup in case of equipment failure, or just for when you're out of juice. Fwiw, a select few of those crappy wireless IEM's might surprise the crap out of you regarding how good they can sound (probably need EQ to make that happen). Don't get me wrong though, the younger me felt the same as you. Old(er) audiophiles never die, they just get less ambitious.


----------



## IamJon (Oct 14, 2019)

vladzakhar said:


> My thoughts after 3 days using Liberty 2 Pros:
> 
> + Very good sound, not with stock tips, though.
> Beautiful case, compact and I love how the cover works.
> ...



Annoyingly i'm still waiting for my Liberty 2 Pro's to ship despite ordering on the 27th. Think they are waiting on stock so must of sold well on preorder.

However my KZ ZS10 pro's have arrived to keep me distracted. Very impressed with them so far, especially when paired with high quality flac. Quite a step up from listening to Spotify on my bluetooth RHA ma650's. Not tried the KZ aptx hd bluetooth adaptor yet, still charging up. Don't know how good the Liberty 2 Pro will be in comparison.

Edit: KZ aptx hd bluetooth adaptor
Some background hiss "noise floor", more noticeable than on my RHA's. Unsurprisingly Aptx is not as crisp and detailed as using wired connection. Can't test aptx hd as my S8 only has aptx, not tested the mic for calls yet. Overall I think it's worth the drop in audio quality for extra freedom, but nice to have wired as an option so can hear what i'm missing out on. Will be sticking with these + KZ sz10 pro's as my daily headphones for now. Impatient to compare to the Liberty 2 Pro's, may end-up using Liberty pro's for wireless and sz10 pro's for wired.


----------



## Caipirina

Sighting of another ANC chi-fi TWS from Whizzer / Opera Factory. Rather snazzy looking. But a bit scarce on the details. Not going trigger happy on those. Also, few hours ago, when I first saw them they were 40 or 50% off (as it is customary on AliX) at something 4X.xxUsd


----------



## BobJS

I just received the Samsung Galaxy Buds and have to say I'm pleasantly surprised.  Call quality is great.  Form factor is surprisingly tiny.  With eq off sound quality is OK.  With EQ on (I prefer "Soft"), sound quality is Very good. I'm not sure if the eq app is available on a non-galaxy phone.  This might be a good earbud to use while outside (haven't tried yet) where wind noise might be a problem.


----------



## tenmagnet

Hello Guys, i'm trying to find a comparison between the advanced model x true wireless and sennheiser mtw. Care to share your impressions?


----------



## geardoc

Rob E. said:


> Better double your budget. One=None, Two=One. Always good to have a backup in case of equipment failure, or just for when you're out of juice. Fwiw, a select few of those crappy wireless IEM's might surprise the crap out of you regarding how good they can sound (probably need EQ to make that happen). Don't get me wrong though, the younger me felt the same as you. Old(er) audiophiles never die, they just get less ambitious.



Yea, I suspect that a true wireless equivalent of say, the Shure SE8xx or Campfire Andromeda would be something like $1500.


----------



## chinmie

geardoc said:


> Yea, I suspect that a true wireless equivalent of say, the Shure SE8xx or Campfire Andromeda would be something like $1500.



or just buy a TW bluetooth and pair it to those Shure or CA IEMs to get the best of both world


----------



## RobinFood

chinmie said:


> or just buy a TW bluetooth and pair it to those Shure or CA IEMs to get the best of both world



With only 8 ohm sensitivity what kind of hiss could we expect paired with a bt20s? I heard there is a hiss issue with sensitive iems. At what sensitivity does the hiss disappear?


----------



## chinmie

RobinFood said:


> With only 8 ohm sensitivity what kind of hiss could we expect paired with a bt20s? I heard there is a hiss issue with sensitive iems. At what sensitivity does the hiss disappear?



a lot, i suspect. the most hiss my IEM produced  with the BT20s is the BGVP DM6..that one is rated 20 ohm impedance with 122db sensitivity. even with BT20 it still has a low hiss. i don't know about the Fostex TM2 though..


----------



## clerkpalmer

IamJon said:


> Annoyingly i'm still waiting for my Liberty 2 Pro's to ship despite ordering on the 27th. Think they are waiting on stock so must of sold well on preorder.



Me too.  Very annoying since they promised to ship last week. I emailed support days ago with no response. Really unacceptable by Anker. I could live with being sold out but I cannot stand bad support.


----------



## IamJon (Oct 14, 2019)

clerkpalmer said:


> Me too.  Very annoying since they promised to ship last week. I emailed support days ago with no response. Really unacceptable by Anker. I could live with being sold out but I cannot stand bad support.



This is what I got back from support:
"As stated in the Q&A page, orders made before Sep 26th will be shipped in the week starting Oct 8th. Later orders will be shipped before Oct 18th (see the attachment). We are trying our best to arrange a shipment."

At time of ordering on 27th (UK) it did say shipping week starting Oct 8th. My guess is pre-orders were better than expected and their waiting on a second batch of stock.


----------



## nerdspot

mattedialdoc said:


> Has anyone ordered from these guys? Fasttech? Seems like a good deal.



I ordered on Sept 26th at the $33.43 price. It is currently $37.64. My order hasn't shipped yet and the status is restocking with a estimated ship date of Oct 17th.


----------



## georgelai57

Like some on this thread, I’ve been guilty of totally ignoring my wired stuff, playing with Tevi, Bose SS Free, e12 Ultra and the like for about 3 months. 
Just for kicks, I took out my cheapest 2 BA CIEM (Earwerkz Supra anyone?) and plug a $50 Advanced Audio “dongle” into my iPhone XR and even though it’s just lossy Apple Music, I’m afraid to say “we are not there yet!”


----------



## TYATYA

geardoc said:


> Enough with the cheap ones already.   What's new in the top end of the line?  ie,  $200, 300, 400, 500 or more or   >$1000 if there is such a thing?
> 
> If there is one thing I've learned.  Buying cheap ones costs me more in the end.  One or two cheap ones, another 2-3 mid priced ones and then finally the best one, all added up together costs more than just jumping to the best one.
> 
> Yes, I know wireless is different because of the severe compromises and technology is changing quickly, but, come on, we've had Bluetooth for decades now.



Best combo I can recommend is Iphon6+B&O E8v2.
I have AK SP1000 and KSE1500,1200 and other good stuffs, but I find myself most of time on E8.
I love samsung phones but hate its sound never approach ip6 (one of best sq Iphone)


----------



## d3myz

vstolpner said:


> To reach their own. I do agree the Anbes sound more open and airy but I prefer the sound signature of the T5 overall. What I don't prefer is the case of the T5's - ridiculously huge....


I love the T5, but I also like the 359. There are times I wish the t5 had a little better highs, but overall they are both great. The T5 is also better built than the anbes/ssk, the rubber pads seem to dislodge over time. I've had to fix mine with superglue.


----------



## d3myz

cwill said:


> Ia something wrong with the Kanoe? I just ordered them...should I cancel?


they sound good to me, just too much bass for my taste.


----------



## jasaero

d3myz said:


> I love the T5, but I also like the 359. There are times I wish the t5 had a little better highs, but overall they are both great. The T5 is also better built than the anbes/ssk, the rubber pads seem to dislodge over time. I've had to fix mine with superglue.



Had posted on these prior in reply to another.  But looks like the QCC3020 versions also address the buttons somehow from the looks.

https://www.alibaba.com/product-det...spm=a2700.supplier-normal.35.9.41c84926CcfoGF


----------



## d3myz

Thank you for the impressions! It seems our experience or subjective tastes differ - (I prefer darker/basshead signatures) - what do you think of the Vocal Boost preset?

For me, I found that the spike in treble resulted in some songs being hard to listen to above a certain volume - somewhat piercing. Can you try "Black Truck" by Mereba and Floor Seats by A$AP Ferg and let me know what you think of the vocals/treble compared with your TEVI? I love bass, and even enjoy the extra bass of the LPro2 - but my perceived mid dip and compressed/peaky highs are what's making me think I may send them back/or that I need to let the BA burn in or something. It's like a too small tweeter paired with a big Subwoofer to my ears lol. [/QUOTE]

I think the piano setting is my fav. for most songs. but I do like the vocal booster eq. Sounds more like the T5's signature. To me that vocals on that Mereba song are just bright in general, brighter than most of the songs I've listened too, the song is awesome, but I do not like the mic they use to record those vocals. A$ap Ferg song sounded good, the chorus where he uses that effect on his voice is very bright. I was using my Hear ID on and off and off it was too bright, on it was fine. 

I've done the hear ID like 15 times. and its' close, but I really wish there was a way to manually tune it. with the way hear id is now, the sig. is very warm, reminds me of the stylish. have you tried the hear id? I'm sure once you get familiar with how it works you could essentially tune it to your liking by boosting certain frequencies.


----------



## hifi80sman

Caipirina said:


> Sighting of another ANC chi-fi TWS from Whizzer / Opera Factory. Rather snazzy looking. But a bit scarce on the details. Not going trigger happy on those. Also, few hours ago, when I first saw them they were 40 or 50% off (as it is customary on AliX) at something 4X.xxUsd


Hmm, I'm thinking when they refer to ANC, they're really talking about the mic.  If it has legit ANC, they'd be interesting to try.


----------



## Luchyres

d3myz said:


> Thank you for the impressions! It seems our experience or subjective tastes differ - (I prefer darker/basshead signatures) - what do you think of the Vocal Boost preset?
> 
> For me, I found that the spike in treble resulted in some songs being hard to listen to above a certain volume - somewhat piercing. Can you try "Black Truck" by Mereba and Floor Seats by A$AP Ferg and let me know what you think of the vocals/treble compared with your TEVI? I love bass, and even enjoy the extra bass of the LPro2 - but my perceived mid dip and compressed/peaky highs are what's making me think I may send them back/or that I need to let the BA burn in or something. It's like a too small tweeter paired with a big Subwoofer to my ears lol.



I think the piano setting is my fav. for most songs. but I do like the vocal booster eq. Sounds more like the T5's signature. To me that vocals on that Mereba song are just bright in general, brighter than most of the songs I've listened too, the song is awesome, but I do not like the mic they use to record those vocals. A$ap Ferg song sounded good, the chorus where he uses that effect on his voice is very bright. I was using my Hear ID on and off and off it was too bright, on it was fine.

I've done the hear ID like 15 times. and its' close, but I really wish there was a way to manually tune it. with the way hear id is now, the sig. is very warm, reminds me of the stylish. have you tried the hear id? I'm sure once you get familiar with how it works you could essentially tune it to your liking by boosting certain frequencies.[/QUOTE]


Thanks @d3myz !

Interesting comments on the Mereba song - as that is not my experience with that song usually (with different headphones) - I'd be curious if you get a chance to listen to it again with your favorite pair of wired headphones if that changes your opinion of the LPro2 performance... but only if the fancy strikes you to experiment. 

I appreciate your thoughts - it seems like we both view the songs as being represented as a bit bright - but that I may be more fatigued/bothered by the highs (or my headphones were outputting a slightly different sound sig). I'm still tempted to try the regular Liberty 2's with just the DD - but your sharing your feedback has helped me form my opinion! Thanks for trying those songs out. 

I did try the HearID and while it made the mid dip+spike effect less pronounced for me - I agree with you that I'd really want a 8-12 band EQ to play with.


----------



## AtariPrime

d3myz said:


> For me, I found that the spike in treble resulted in some songs being hard to listen to above a certain volume - somewhat piercing. Can you try "Black Truck" by Mereba and Floor Seats by A$AP Ferg and let me know what you think of the vocals/treble compared with your TEVI?



Wow...both those songs are horribly terrible...I don't think we can be friends.


----------



## voicemaster

BobJS said:


> I just received the Samsung Galaxy Buds and have to say I'm pleasantly surprised.  Call quality is great.  Form factor is surprisingly tiny.  With eq off sound quality is OK.  With EQ on (I prefer "Soft"), sound quality is Very good. I'm not sure if the eq app is available on a non-galaxy phone.  This might be a good earbud to use while outside (haven't tried yet) where wind noise might be a problem.



The app is available for android phone in general.


----------



## gibletzor

voicemaster said:


> The app is available for android phone in general.


To add to this, the only thing that is specific to Samsung phones with the Gbuds is the Samsung Scalable Codec, which is supposed to be Samsung's equivalent to LDAC.


----------



## vladzakhar

chinmie said:


> a lot, i suspect. the most hiss my IEM produced  with the BT20s is the BGVP DM6..that one is rated 20 ohm impedance with 122db sensitivity. even with BT20 it still has a low hiss. i don't know about the Fostex TM2 though..


I had both: Fostex TM2 and TRN BT20S and returned both of them. The hiss with my Andromeda was distracting.


----------



## Blueshound24

D3soLaT3 said:


> Looks like a few more clones of the Anbes are starting to pop up. This time in a grey and black color scheme. Take a look at them here and here on amazon. According to this Alibaba page, they seem to be the same variant as the SSK, notice the grey/black model on the same page as the white/orange model. Furthermore, looks like a QCC 3020 variant will be arriving soon (as someone on this thread previously mentioned) as the BE30Q. Manufacture/seller is Dogo.




Does anyone know if these https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07HKYGBT8 are the same as the Anbes 359? 

And if so, do they have good clear extended highs? 

All the talk of their quality makes it appear they might be worth a try. 

And are the SSK, Kissral and Anbes 359 all the same TWS?


----------



## gibletzor

Blueshound24 said:


> Does anyone know if these https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07HKYGBT8 are the same as the Anbes 359?
> 
> And if so, do they have good clear extended highs?
> 
> ...


Yes the Kissral R18 are a clone of the 359s.  They sound excellent!


----------



## cwill

gibletzor said:


> Yes the Kissral R18 are a clone of the 359s.  They sound excellent!


Can confirm. I own them.


----------



## d3myz (Oct 14, 2019)

Luchyres said:


> I think the piano setting is my fav. for most songs. but I do like the vocal booster eq. Sounds more like the T5's signature. To me that vocals on that Mereba song are just bright in general, brighter than most of the songs I've listened too, the song is awesome, but I do not like the mic they use to record those vocals. A$ap Ferg song sounded good, the chorus where he uses that effect on his voice is very bright. I was using my Hear ID on and off and off it was too bright, on it was fine.
> 
> I've done the hear ID like 15 times. and its' close, but I really wish there was a way to manually tune it. with the way hear id is now, the sig. is very warm, reminds me of the stylish. have you tried the hear id? I'm sure once you get familiar with how it works you could essentially tune it to your liking by boosting certain frequencies.




Thanks @d3myz !

Interesting comments on the Mereba song - as that is not my experience with that song usually (with different headphones) - I'd be curious if you get a chance to listen to it again with your favorite pair of wired headphones if that changes your opinion of the LPro2 performance... but only if the fancy strikes you to experiment.

I appreciate your thoughts - it seems like we both view the songs as being represented as a bit bright - but that I may be more fatigued/bothered by the highs (or my headphones were outputting a slightly different sound sig). I'm still tempted to try the regular Liberty 2's with just the DD - but your sharing your feedback has helped me form my opinion! Thanks for trying those songs out.

I did try the HearID and while it made the mid dip+spike effect less pronounced for me - I agree with you that I'd really want a 8-12 band EQ to play with.[/QUOTE]

I should add that i'm using the JVC Spiral dots and they do tend to make everything sound a bit brighter. I listened to Meraba on the TEVI, vocals are bright very mid-rangy and thin, but not like they are on the LPro2. on the Lystar J29 they are really bright, but the rest of the song sounds great, on the T5 it's sound good, but the high end is rolled off, but the vocals are more balanced sounding  not sparkly and a little midrangy, but I can listen really loud and it sounds great. on the SSK lacking that heavy sub-bass, but everything else sounds awesome! Same on my burnt in 359's, they sound a bit better than the SSK's, but a tad less crisp than the ssk. Tranya T3, also sounds good, but the vocals are thin and bright, but not too bright. B530 sounds good, still thin vocals and a little sibilant at 90% vol. back to the Lpro2, they are way bright and thin, but very well defined. now I can't find an EQ on them that sounds as good as T3 or the SSK/Anbes  Wow, dude, I got the chills. that sound is DOPE! I think I def. prefer the DD. the L2PRO is really lacking that warm mid-range. I'm a big snare drum guy, and if it has too much attach and not enough depth I get bugged. maybe that's why I like the T5 and 359 so much, they do mids really well IMO.

edit: I also listened to the song on my Sonos beam and Sonos One, flat eq's and it's the recording my man. The vocals and high hats are really bright. If I had to guess, the engineer compressed her voice to mix it with the high hats, they are really sparkly. sounds like they just wiped the lows out of her voice, and bumped the high mids and low highs, but i'm no engineer.


----------



## d3myz

AtariPrime said:


> Wow...both those songs are horribly terrible...I don't think we can be friends.


“A mind is like a parachute. It doesn't work if it is not open.”
― Frank Zappa


----------



## d3myz

Blueshound24 said:


> Does anyone know if these https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07HKYGBT8 are the same as the Anbes 359?
> 
> And if so, do they have good clear extended highs?
> 
> ...


So is the SSK, I own it and the 359's. I think the SSK sounds a bit cleaner than the 359, but it has less bass. Then again, my SSK's are still breaking in.


----------



## gibletzor

I remember talk of them, but didn't see much in the way of experiences or reviews, but the Jade Audio EW1 is down to $35 on Amazon.  I'll have one Wednesday.  They were $60 when they first listed them.


----------



## Blueshound24

d3myz said:


> So is the SSK, I own it and the 359's. I think the SSK sounds a bit cleaner than the 359, but it has less bass. Then again, my SSK's are still breaking in.




The only Anbes on Amazon with good reviews that I see is the one I linked to.  (https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07HKYGBT8)

Do you have a link to the SSK on Amazon USA?


----------



## hifi80sman

OK, OK, OK.

Ordered the Liberty 2 Pro from Amazon at full price.  I was not patient enough to pre-order, nor am I patient enough to wait for a sale.  Plus if I have to return or exchange (I can usually get it next day), I prefer Amazon, given who knows how long it will take otherwise.  I also had a $14 credit, so that took some of the sting (and tax) away.

I'm also returning my BackBeat Pro 5100.  The marketing piece showed it had Open Mic and EQ, which it does not.  I went to try to activate it yesterday via "My Tap" settings (because people feel the need to CONSTANTLY walk into my office and ask me questions), but the options were not there!  I sent an email to Plantronics who verified it was not a feature on the 5100!  Well golly gee whiz!  Back they go, if for nothing else...principle.


----------



## d3myz

Blueshound24 said:


> The only Anbes on Amazon with good reviews that I see is the one I linked to.  (https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07HKYGBT8)
> 
> Do you have a link to the SSK on Amazon USA?


They are out of stock on amazon. https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07R8TPND5/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

They are available on ali express


----------



## The Apostle

voicemaster said:


> The app is available for android phone in general.[/QUOTE
> Also, for those with Costco membership, they have new, non refurb Galaxy Buds for $114.





voicemaster said:


> The app is available for android phone in general.



Also, for those with Costco membership, they have new, non refurb Galaxy Buds for $114.


----------



## Luchyres

AtariPrime said:


> Wow...both those songs are horribly terrible...I don't think we can be friends.



Both songs I picked in that they particularly highlight the cluttered/spike-y midrange/treble I heard on the LPro2 - but also songs I _quite_ enjoy. 

Given the subjective taste differences in how we all hear different headphones - let alone the subjective tastes in music preferences - I don't ever factor those into deciding who I'd be friends with as they seem so entirely .... unrelated. 

But, just as I wouldn't say you're objectively wrong for having subjective preferences - I also give you the right to use whatever subjective preferences you want to when choosing your friends... so have at it!


----------



## Luchyres (Oct 14, 2019)

d3myz said:


> Thanks @d3myz !
> 
> Interesting comments on the Mereba song - as that is not my experience with that song usually (with different headphones) - I'd be curious if you get a chance to listen to it again with your favorite pair of wired headphones if that changes your opinion of the LPro2 performance... but only if the fancy strikes you to experiment.
> 
> ...




Again, super appreciated.

Out of curiosity on the Mereba Black Truck song - can you link to the file you're listening to (spotify, Tidal?) I know there are a couple re-recordings of it...

Do you have a favorite song you use for looking at mids? Mereba's song isn't necessarily my favorite for such purposes - I just highlighted it as my experience of the Tidal HiFi track was SO different between the Nuarl, Anbes, and LPro2 - enjoyable on the first two - unlistenable on the LPro2.

I'm already returning the LPro2 - but I am planning on making a testing playlist with carefully picked tracks for future comparisons. Maybe all Masters if possible (Tidal).

Thanks again for your input!


----------



## hifi80sman

The Apostle said:


> Also, for those with Costco membership, they have new, non refurb Galaxy Buds for $114.


Is it just the White version?


----------



## The Apostle

hifi80sman said:


> Is it just the White version?


Yes.


----------



## AtariPrime

AtariPrime said:


> Wow...both those songs are horribly terrible...I don't think we can be friends.





d3myz said:


> “A mind is like a parachute. It doesn't work if it is not open.”
> 
> ― Frank Zappa



“I will not hide my tastes or aversions.  If you are true, but not in the same truth with me, cleave to your companions; I will seek my own.” – Ralph Waldo Emerson


----------



## Luchyres (Oct 14, 2019)

AtariPrime said:


> “I will not hide my tastes or aversions.  If you are true, but not in the same truth with me, cleave to your companions; I will seek my own.” – Ralph Waldo Emerson



Here, I fixed it for you:

""I will not hide my tastes or aversions. If you are true, but not in the same truth with me, I will offer you unsought subjective opinions, phrased as objective facts, and declare that you no longer have the option to have something you never said you wanted.” – Ralph Waldo Emerson & AtariPrime" (  Joking)

All told, I'm honored you went to listen to the songs - I'm just not sure why you replied since you didn't contribute anything re: the sound of the songs, TWS comparison... It is almost  as if you just wanted to tell me you didn't like those two songs... and that is 100% your opinion, and you're 100% entitled to it - but not what the thread is about.

On that note, what's your favorite songs to test your TWS or other headphones @AtariPrime ? Particularly, are there any that you feel do a good job of allowing one to listen for the breadth of soundstage and allows for interesting tonal evaluation?

FWIW, I'd still be your friend - and I'm hoping we can get this thread back on track. Peace, love, and headphones, my friend. 

Edit: If anyone else wants to share their fav test tracks for their TWS  - please feel free to DM me or to share in reply - I fake want to make a crowd-sourced list and to get a better idea of what you other Degenerates like to listen to - for future testing.


----------



## marioho

I'm in a pickle.

In a nutshell: is there a *TWS *with *aptx *support, *IPX7 *rating, good value and more of a *neutral *sound signature?

I have the MPOW T5 and I'm quite into it. Though it's not night and day, I perceive a significant difference in audio sync using aptx when streaming media with my phone. However I'm coming from the likes of Sennheiser HD 598 and the plethora of Hifiman earphones (RE-0, -00, ZERO, 400a and possibly more) with neutral sound signature and decent soundstage... I like how the T5 sounds, but I find myself missing the way my old 'buds' – sorry – whispered sweet lullabies in my ears.

The ease of mind of being able to shower while catching up with my Up Next playlist on Pocket Casts has revealed to be a blessing too.

Sabbat E12, Shanling MTW100 BA, Tranya's, ADV M5... I've read tibits about them all but they always fall short in one or two aspects or don't seem to be that much of an upgrade to the MPOW T5

Is there a decent alternative available or soon to be released I should be locking sights on?


----------



## AtariPrime

Luchyres said:


> Here, I fixed it for you:
> 
> ""I will not hide my tastes or aversions. If you are true, but not in the same truth with me, I will offer you unsought subjective opinions, phrased as objective facts, and declare that you no longer have the option to have something you never said you wanted.” – Ralph Waldo Emerson & AtariPrime" (  Joking)
> 
> ...



Well...

1) Boredom.  Before anything else, there didn't seem like a lot to talk about.  Most of the recent comments have focused on revisiting older chi-fi options.  As that's not my cup of tea, I was twiddling my thumbs.

2) Music.  I like music, of all, er most, kinds.  So I sought those two artists as I had not heard of them and listened.  Didn't like what I heard so joking reply ensued.

3) The thread isn't about a lot of stuff that is posted here, perhaps even most stuff posted here.

4) Favorite songs to test...hmm.  Most of my earbud listening is gym related, therefore I often test earbuds with a mix of high energy electronic and rock music, maybe with a dash of what is known as 'chillstep' or 'deep house' thrown in for good measure.  Also of note, I don't care about vocals in most songs, so unless an earbud causes vocals to skreech in my ear how it impacts vocals is mostly lost on me.  All that said, below are a few that I use as test songs.

Far Too Loud - Firestorm (Karetus Remix)
Awolnation - MF
Flux Pavillion - I Can't Stop
Blue Foundation - Eyes on Fire (Zeds Dead Remix)
Blackmill - Let it Be
Lindsey Stirling - Electric Daisy Violin
Imagine Dragons - Radioactive (explicit ver. w/ Kendrick Lamar)
Guns N' Roses - Sweet Child O' Mine
Otis Taylor - Hey Joe (Recapturing the Banjo ver.)
Webb Wilder - Baby Please Don't Go

The first two songs above, Firestorm and MF, sound like poop through most earbuds so it takes a special bass heavy tune.  Most drivers don't go heavy enough, and the ones that do often can't recover fast enough for the next beat that comes in rapid succession.  Much better in a car with 20 speakers and a subwoofer at full volume (big surprise).

*Cheers to all*


----------



## hifi80sman

Luchyres said:


> Here, I fixed it for you:
> 
> ""I will not hide my tastes or aversions. If you are true, but not in the same truth with me, I will offer you unsought subjective opinions, phrased as objective facts, and declare that you no longer have the option to have something you never said you wanted.” – Ralph Waldo Emerson & AtariPrime" (  Joking)
> 
> ...


Oddly (and I'm still slightly shy of 40), Mr. Neil Diamond's 50th Anniversary Collection has numerous songs that are great for testing.  The instrumentation and slick production of those tracks is quite impressive.

Now, you COULD test with the Backstreet Boys, but man, those were not produced well at all...so I understand via word of mouth.  Not like I've ever heard any of their songs...


----------



## d3myz

Here's an EP I've been listening to lately. It's pretty much Musician's Music, so most of you will probably won't dig it, but the Production and Engineering in this EP is Masterful and the music changes so much it really takes you for a ride. There are very few drum kits that have been recorded this well!

Wot Gorilla?
Angel Numbers


----------



## hifi80sman

d3myz said:


> Here's an EP I've been listening to lately. It's pretty much Musician's Music, so most of you will probably won't dig it, but the Production and Engineering in this EP is Masterful and the music changes so much it really takes you for a ride. There are very few drum kits that have been recorded this well!
> 
> Wot Gorilla?
> Angel Numbers


Can't say that's my cup of tea, but as far as using it to test equipment (layering, etc.), I think those are good tracks.  There's a lot (of noise) going on there!


----------



## keeya (Oct 14, 2019)

I got the BT20s bluetooth system to pair with some Campfire Audio IEMs and I can only get one side to work at a time.
I pair both channels and it'll only play from one side, then if I press the button on one of them it'll play on that side only.. I can flip it back and forth to each side but can't get them both to play at the same time.  Any ideas as to what can be going wrong here?  I've tried on both an iPhone 11 Max and a MacBook Pro.

Also, is it normal that each channel has it's own Bluetooth connection with my iPhone or MacBook Pro?  I've never seen that for a Bluetooth headphone, generally it's a single connection for both channels.


----------



## veraideishal

I’ve just bought the Fostex TM2 and am using it with my Etymotic ER3XRs. Anyone else noticing some high-frequency tone when music is playing (not just the hiss; that’s at least evenly distributed across the audio range)?


----------



## chinmie

veraideishal said:


> I’ve just bought the Fostex TM2 and am using it with my Etymotic ER3XRs. Anyone else noticing some high-frequency tone when music is playing (not just the hiss; that’s at least evenly distributed across the audio range)?



does the tone stay stable in volume relative to the music? for example, if you turn the volume low or mute it but still let the music play, does the tone stay apparent?


----------



## assassin10000

keeya said:


> I got the BT20s bluetooth system to pair with some Campfire Audio IEMs and I can only get one side to work at a time.
> I pair both channels and it'll only play from one side, then if I press the button on one of them it'll play on that side only.. I can flip it back and forth to each side but can't get them both to play at the same time.  Any ideas as to what can be going wrong here?  I've tried on both an iPhone 11 Max and a MacBook Pro.
> 
> Also, is it normal that each channel has it's own Bluetooth connection with my iPhone or MacBook Pro?  I've never seen that for a Bluetooth headphone, generally it's a single connection for both channels.



Sounds like you paired them individually vs as a unit. 

You can full reset the bt20s, from 'off' hold buttons down about 8-10 seconds, until you hear a series of tones and they turn back off. Then turn them on into pairing mode (both lights blink blue), tap each button once. They will pair to each other, and one side will now blink red/blue. Re-pair to your device.


----------



## d3myz

I'm testing these Utaxo's tonight. First impressions are good. great bass, brighter highs, but not quite as sharp as the bomaker, reminds me of a better sounding B530, comfy fit. Get this, one touch is volume down on the left and one touch is volume up on the right, double touch is stop and start. Pretty clever. So far i've very impressed. @hifi80sman is it you who's a sucker for a nice metal case? this has an awesome case with a 2200mah battery but only a micro usb input? i'm not sure if it has an output to charge other devices. Anyway, i'm going to spend some time with them and leave my impressions later.


----------



## veraideishal (Oct 14, 2019)

chinmie said:


> does the tone stay stable in volume relative to the music? for example, if you turn the volume low or mute it but still let the music play, does the tone stay apparent?



It’s stable in volume, and continues even after I turn the volume all the way down. It only stops a few seconds after I stop playback (the hiss also cuts out).

EDIT: Using an audio tone generator app on my source (i.e. my iPhone) and A/B-ing between no audio and the tone, I’m able to narrow down the frequency to being between 7500-8000Hz (probably 7800Hz), if that helps.


----------



## chinmie

veraideishal said:


> It’s stable in volume, and continues even after I turn the volume all the way down. It only stops a few seconds after I stop playback (the hiss also cuts out).
> 
> EDIT: Using an audio tone generator app on my source (i.e. my iPhone) and A/B-ing between no audio and the tone, I’m able to narrow down the frequency to being between 7500-8000Hz (probably 7800Hz), if that helps.



what device/phone do you use? is it BT 5.0 compatible? 
i have one same instance of that happening with the QCY T1C when paired to my older tablet, but not when paired with my phone (which has BT 5.0). it sounds like a beeping noise that only stops when the music/video stops. 
i haven't notice it happening with my other BT devices, I'll check on them later.


----------



## veraideishal

chinmie said:


> what device/phone do you use? is it BT 5.0 compatible?
> i have one same instance of that happening with the QCY T1C when paired to my older tablet, but not when paired with my phone (which has BT 5.0). it sounds like a beeping noise that only stops when the music/video stops.
> i haven't notice it happening with my other BT devices, I'll check on them later.



I’m using an iPhone Xs, which should support BT5.0, though not aptX, if that makes a difference.


----------



## XGUGU

marioho said:


> I'm in a pickle.
> 
> In a nutshell: is there a *TWS *with *aptx *support, *IPX7 *rating, good value and more of a *neutral *sound signature?
> 
> ...



https://www.amazon.com/Wireless-Blu...hvlocint=&hvlocphy=&hvtargid=pla-878974688797
These meet the criteria while they seem to have a w shaped signature.


----------



## Veyska

Huh.  My QCYs randomly connected to my phone.  That a thing that happens if the battery pack bit runs out of charge I'm guessing?


----------



## XGUGU (Oct 15, 2019)

Veyska said:


> Huh.  My QCYs randomly connected to my phone.  That a thing that happens if the battery pack bit runs out of charge I'm guessing?


Kind of makes sense, but it is a design flaw if true.


----------



## Luchyres

AtariPrime said:


> Well...
> 
> 1) Boredom.  Before anything else, there didn't seem like a lot to talk about.  Most of the recent comments have focused on revisiting older chi-fi options.  As that's not my cup of tea, I was twiddling my thumbs.
> 
> ...



I feel you on all of those points... and I appreciate the songs!

You may be entertained to know that our sound preferences intersect in that I also have Eyes on Fire (Zeds Dead) in my historical folder! (guns n roses too, but that's a gimme) 

I'm going to check out those first two on my EX-800st main setup and pick from some of the others for my "test" playlist for whatever tws set breaks through my resistance next.

(Also gonna add some from the other recommendations coming in the thread, thanks everyone!)

cheers back man


----------



## gibletzor (Oct 15, 2019)

I got some new purchases in this last week and been testing them over the weekend. 
1.  Nuforce Befree 8.    I know these aren't anything new, but I wanted to try them out and see how much of a difference AptX-LL made.  It does get rid of the audio lag on Youtube from my phone and when connected to an AptX-LL adapter on my PC.  It is pretty much indistinguishable from a wired connection.  That being said, I'm not sure if I'll keep them.  The sound is nothing spectacular, but not terrible at all with the bigger Spinfit tips included.  The battery life and connection consistency are the killers.  Since the left bud is the master and it uses NFMI to connect the right bud, sometimes if I move my head just right the right side bud will DC.  It definitely DCs as soon as it leaves my ear.  And since it's BT 4.2 the range for the left side to stay connected is pretty limited; life 10 feet or so.  Battery life is nothing to write home about.  They get 3-4 hours per charge.  The problem is they get HOT while they're in the charging case.  Hot enough it's uncomfortable when I take them out of the case and put them in my ear. Probably going to send these back.

2.  Lystar J29 - These are probably keepers.  For $21 (Apparently $40 now) the sound is very enjoyable.  I equated them in this thread earlier to a slightly neutered Tranya B530 and I still think that holds true.  No major connection issues yet.  Haven't tested call quality yet.  My only complaint is the huge and bright LEDs on the buttons.  If you wore them on top of a tall building or tower you could alert planes to stay away!

3. Mijiaer T30 - These are going back for sure.  The sound is quite good, but not amazing.  Similar to the Lystar but with a definite background hiss.  They've been a pain in the ass to get connected and stay connected or reconnect after charging.  They have to be reset almost every time.  Not worth the trouble or money for something that doesn't offer anything outstanding.

Here's some pictures of the trio, with the Kissral R18 and Tranya B530 added in for comparison of the size of the buds and charging cases.


----------



## Caipirina

hifi80sman said:


> Hmm, I'm thinking when they refer to ANC, they're really talking about the mic.  If it has legit ANC, they'd be interesting to try.


Sounds plausible. Just amazing how devoid those 2 sole listings are of specs. Even the specs page seems like a rushed copy / paste job (don’t believe those are hybrids, but hey  ) 

I also googled outside AliExpress, checked Whizzer’s FB and did a reverse image search ...
 

Really very little info out there ...


----------



## ejswa51

Just got a set of Creative Outlier Golds, second attempt. Kinda like 'm for the price!
My history in TWS so far: 
- Audio Technica ATH-CKR7TW: Had them for a week, tested them and send them back. I found them to clunky (sticking out of my ear too much), and also too bright. 
- Earin M2: Lovely! Certainly when you EQ them a bit brighter, they have a lovely maybe so far for me unrivaled sound quality! Battery life isn't amazing, but for me not a deal breaker, since they do last like 2-3hrs on a charge and have a few charges in the case (I don't have 8hr flights on a regular basis, so I don't find battery life that important). Top notch build quality and design (small!) as well, including a decent to good interface with the touchpads on the earpieces (whereas you can accidentally touch the pads and play/pause your music when putting them in or out of your ear), however, the connection quality isn't awesome. Many times only one connects, or the connection drops between the two earpieces, or just completely. Now unfortunately I lost one of the earpieces... 
- Sabbat E12 TWS: Still have them lying around. Nice design, ok fit, bit shiny all over (fingerprint magnet). But good quality for the price, decent sound quality as well (quite strong bass though), decent button interface, good battery life. However, after one month of usage my right earpiece simply won't work anymore, it doesn't connect. And then I didn't bother that much to seek for support (ordered them when I was in Canada for the holidays, but I'm living in the EU).
- Creative Outlier Gold: So after my lost Earin and dead Sabbat, I was looking for something new. Maybe it was also the more sophisticated name that attracted me, but mainly the design and proposed sound quality were pulling me towards them (and the insane battery life is a nice bonus). I got my first pair about a month ago. They worked fine, good stable connection, pairing was easy, sound was quite good (a lot of bass again, a bit like the sabbats, but then the highs on these sounds more crisp than the more sharp electrical highs in the (cheaper) Sabbats). But then the right earpiece broke down. It did connect, it did register commando's (like, push the button to playpause) to my phone, but no sound came through...Seemed like a faulty design. So I contacted Creative, and after one attempt to reset them, it failed again, so I sent them back to Creative. They then sent me a new pair quite quickly. Now I have new ones since yesterday and am happy so far! Hope they don't break down, but it seems fine now! Will post later again if they do break down again. But in general, they sound good, are comfortable, don't stick out too much, and last forever. The buttons are quite un-usable I have to say....the click is so strong that it hurts my ear...please Creative, add touchpads on them! Then you got killer TWS! Oh, this SuperXFi thingy? I don't bother about that, since the app doesn't allow streaming music, so you can only SuperXFi "Enhance" your locally stored files...bummer. Maybe they can update it later on through the app, but I am already happy with how they sound and perform.


----------



## IamJon (Oct 15, 2019)

veraideishal said:


> It’s stable in volume, and continues even after I turn the volume all the way down. It only stops a few seconds after I stop playback (the hiss also cuts out).
> 
> EDIT: Using an audio tone generator app on my source (i.e. my iPhone) and A/B-ing between no audio and the tone, I’m able to narrow down the frequency to being between 7500-8000Hz (probably 7800Hz), if that helps.



I'm still a newbie when it comes to this stuff, but it seems all my bluetooth headphones have some level of background hiss which cuts out when no audio.

Normally most noticeable in silence between tracks and when listening at low volume. My KZ sz10 Pro & KZ aptx hd bluetooth adaptor combo seem worse than my old RHA ma650. Possibly due to iem's been more sensitive to the frequency's / amp quality / lack of amp filtering. The noise floor on wired connection to my mobile is barely audible.

Is this still a problem on a high end bluetooth amp like the Fiio btr5?
Also seen some reports of this been an issue on the Liberty 2 Pro.... still waiting for mine...


----------



## RobinFood (Oct 15, 2019)

IamJon said:


> I'm still a newbie when it comes to this stuff, but it seems all my bluetooth headphones have some level of background hiss which cuts out when no audio.
> 
> Normally most noticeable in silence between tracks and when listening at low volume. My KZ sz10 Pro & KZ aptx hd bluetooth adaptor combo seem worse than my old RHA ma650. Possibly due to iem's been more sensitive to the frequency's / amp quality / lack of amp filtering. The noise floor on wired connection to my mobile is barely audible.
> 
> ...



The es100 is dead silent, sometimes I'm not even sure it is on...

The Nuarl hisses but my x12 and Nillkin go are silent. You can hear them kind of pop to life if they are in standby and you start playing something. Not a noticeable hiss but definitely a presence, so to speak.


----------



## veraideishal

IamJon said:


> I'm still a newbie when it comes to this stuff, but it seems all my bluetooth headphones have some level of background hiss which cuts out when no audio.
> 
> Normally most noticeable in silence between tracks and when listening at low volume. My KZ sz10 Pro & KZ aptx hd bluetooth adaptor combo seem worse than my old RHA ma650. Possibly due to iem's been more sensitive to the frequency's / amp quality / lack of amp filtering. The noise floor on wired connection to my mobile is barely audible.
> 
> ...



Seconding @RobinFood on the ES100 being dead silent. It is much better than its price would indicate.

It’s also less than a third of the price of the Fostex TM2, so...


----------



## kelter (Oct 15, 2019)

Saw that review and thats what i need, i think. https://medium.com/@vstolpner/shanling-mtw100-ba-knowles-bas-in-a-chi-fi-shell-25a3a5a32e57

And decided to buy them from ali. With discount they cost me is about 74$. I think that a good deal for good BA. Be careful, the white version is dynamic, black and red is armature.
There are special coupon 6$ from 60$
Seller coupon 2$
And 7$ from 50$ from main page ali, but idk thats for everyone or platinum members.


----------



## FullCircle

clerkpalmer said:


> Is it me or do those noble Falcons have really elongated stems? Looks like they might reach all the way to my ear drum



The average ear canal length is 1.5 inches long.


----------



## clerkpalmer

FullCircle said:


> The average ear canal length is 1.5 inches long.



Well, they still look quite elongated as compared to other tw iems but perhaps more importantly could you comment on the sound quality and us availability.  I quite enjoyed your massdrop iems. I would love to try these out.


----------



## FullCircle

clerkpalmer said:


> Well, they still look quite elongated as compared to other tw iems but perhaps more importantly could you comment on the sound quality and us availability.  I quite enjoyed your massdrop iems. I would love to try these out.




Sq 
Somewhere between a k10 and a Sage.

USA availability reportedly just in time for Thanksgiving

Fingers crossed


----------



## clerkpalmer

FullCircle said:


> Sq
> Somewhere between a k10 and a Sage.
> 
> USA availability reportedly just in time for Thanksgiving
> ...



Somehow that picture does not have me focused on your headphones. Not sure why ... looking forward to these as a lot of us here have been lamenting the lack of tw with a focus on sq. Will they ship from aliexpress sooner?


----------



## Putshoesonthatmonster (Oct 15, 2019)

Hello everyone...

My head is pounding, im a little lost with what to buy.

I've read 100s of pages on here and I appreciate everyone's contributions.

I'm primary using the headphones for Music, however videos too with my pixel 3. So I'm a little concerned with lag

*Tranya T3
Kissral R18/Anbes 359/SSK*

both well regarded but I can't see any UK sellers, and no aptx which I would like ideally.

*M Pow T5/M5* are currently £29.99 on amazon and in thinking I can return if I'm not happy.

Others i am nterested in...

*Tronsmart Spunky beats *(who thought that was a good name) have my attention with graphene coated drivers, however I can't find any reviews. They are a similar price

*TRN T200 *look interesting has anyone received a pair yet?

Do you think I'm missing anything? I'm looking for around 50 dollar budget

Ideally I like a clear sound with a decent soundstage, decent volume. Bass is always good but I don't want to over power the mids and highs completely

I have my popcorn ready for the replies


----------



## FullCircle

clerkpalmer said:


> Somehow that picture does not have me focused on your headphones. Not sure why ... looking forward to these as a lot of us here have been lamenting the lack of tw with a focus on sq. Will they ship from aliexpress sooner?




Are they listed on aliexpress?

Here is the thing, we sell them to distributors and then they sell them through their channels, some channels I'm not fully aware of.

As far as the fastest way to get your mittens on them would probably be buy them from a dealer in Japan, as Japan is the first market to receive them.


----------



## clerkpalmer

FullCircle said:


> Are they listed on aliexpress?
> 
> Here is the thing, we sell them to distributors and then they sell them through their channels, some channels I'm not fully aware of.
> 
> As far as the fastest way to get your mittens on them would probably be buy them from a dealer in Japan, as Japan is the first market to receive them.



Thanks. No I dont see them on ali yet. patience is not one of my virtues.


----------



## Soreniglio

Guys, I know this is not the right thread to ask, but is there a similar thread on Head-Fi, but about headphones? I couldn't find any.


----------



## nerdspot

Google just teased their TWS: https://store.google.com/product/pixel_buds

Due for a Spring 2020 release and I believe the expected pricing is close to $180 in the US.


----------



## clerkpalmer

nerdspot said:


> Google just teased their TWS: https://store.google.com/product/pixel_buds
> 
> Due for a Spring 2020 release and I believe the expected pricing is close to $180 in the US.


Spring 2020! Might as well be never.


----------



## FullCircle

clerkpalmer said:


> Well, they still look quite elongated as compared to other tw iems but perhaps more importantly could you comment on the sound quality and us availability.  I quite enjoyed your massdrop iems. I would love to try these out.



I heard from USA HQ

ETA end of the month


----------



## hifi80sman

d3myz said:


> I'm testing these Utaxo's tonight. First impressions are good. great bass, brighter highs, but not quite as sharp as the bomaker, reminds me of a better sounding B530, comfy fit. Get this, one touch is volume down on the left and one touch is volume up on the right, double touch is stop and start. Pretty clever. So far i've very impressed. @hifi80sman is it you who's a sucker for a nice metal case? this has an awesome case with a 2200mah battery but only a micro usb input? i'm not sure if it has an output to charge other devices. Anyway, i'm going to spend some time with them and leave my impressions later.


Yeah, I tried those already.  They were a little bass light for me and the touch controls on the unit I received didn't respond well.  I did like the case, but overall, the signature was a little too neutral for my personal taste.


----------



## clerkpalmer

FullCircle said:


> I heard from USA HQ
> 
> ETA end of the month


Cool.  Who do I contact to order from?


----------



## hifi80sman

IamJon said:


> Also seen some reports of this been an issue on the Liberty 2 Pro.... still waiting for mine...


I just got the Liberty 2 Pro yesterday, and yes, there is a consistent background hiss.  It's actually louder than I was anticipating, but for me, it's not bothersome based on the type of music I listen to.  That being said, I can definitely see that being a huge turn off for some people.


----------



## hifi80sman

clerkpalmer said:


> Spring 2020! Might as well be never.


Not sure about the "Ambient Vent".  Looks like it's just a physical hole that lets in outside noise.  Given the cool translation, etc. i would have been nice for an open mic feature instead of just a hole that lets sound in.


----------



## D3soLaT3

Anyone heard these? They claim to have a balanced armature, although I have difficulty identifying it in this picture, and go by many different names on Amazon.


----------



## FullCircle

clerkpalmer said:


> Cool.  Who do I contact to order from?



Jim@nobleaudio.com 

Jim (my brother) would be the first to know when they arrive.


----------



## hifi80sman (Oct 15, 2019)

D3soLaT3 said:


> Anyone heard these? They claim to have a balanced armature, although I have difficulty identifying it in this picture, and go by many different names on Amazon.


I've seen those and their dubious claims of BA.  Who knows, but honestly, it probably doesn't.  I purchased some other random Chi-Fi that said it had BA, but it was just a DD (which was not a very good DD BTW).


----------



## hifi80sman

tenmagnet said:


> {"refItemType":"35","refItemId":"571081","userId":"153758","refItemTitle":"The diary entries of a little girl! ~ | ~ Latest memoir: puzzle solved #2170"}


Umm...everything OK, bruh?


----------



## d3myz

Soreniglio said:


> Guys, I know this is not the right thread to ask, but is there a similar thread on Head-Fi, but about headphones? I couldn't find any.


Try this one. https://www.head-fi.org/threads/chinese-asian-brand-iem-info-thread.820747/


----------



## nerdspot

nerdspot said:


> Google just teased their TWS: https://store.google.com/product/pixel_buds
> 
> Due for a Spring 2020 release and I believe the expected pricing is close to $180 in the US.


Hands-on from Verge: https://www.theverge.com/2019/10/15...ds-on-photo-video-wireless-features-bluetooth


----------



## d3myz

hifi80sman said:


> Yeah, I tried those already.  They were a little bass light for me and the touch controls on the unit I received didn't respond well.  I did like the case, but overall, the signature was a little too neutral for my personal taste.


 Hmm.. I'm not big on touch controls, but these seems to work well. but I agree with the neutral sound signature, there def. could be more bass to match the mids and highs at high volume. Fresh ears this morning did not love them and I could only find one pair of buds to get a good seal. JVC spiral dots win again. 



hifi80sman said:


> Umm...everything OK, bruh?


HAHAHAH! I was going to post something similar.


----------



## hifi80sman

d3myz said:


> Hmm.. I'm not big on touch controls, but these seems to work well. but I agree with the neutral sound signature, there def. could be more bass to match the mids and highs at high volume. Fresh ears this morning did not love them and I could only find one pair of buds to get a good seal. JVC spiral dots win again.


They are not bad by any means and I'm sure there are a lot of people that will actually enjoy the sound signature, but for me, I prefer a little more richness and depth, even if it's pushed a bit.  For example, I don't know if you've tried the Bowers & Wilkins P7 Wireless, but I love the sound of those things.  I was a bit disappointed their new earbud release was a neckband style unit, given pretty much all the other high-end brands went TWS (Sennheiser, M&D, B&O).



d3myz said:


> HAHAHAH! I was going to post something similar.


Yeah, dude, I don't even want to know what's going on there!


----------



## d3myz

Anyone using spinfit's with the L2pro? I'm looking for a wide bore tip, that's not an Auvio, Spiral Dot or Spinfit 360 (not wide bore) that's also really soft. I have some Tenmark tips I got from ali express and the medium is a touch too small and the tips don't fit snug on any of my TWS' so they don't seal. I like spinfits and the spiral dots, but the dots make the BA in the L2pro too sharp and the 360's seem to bump the mid bass and reduce the high mids. Any suggestions? I like wide bore because it seems to let all the sound through without impeding the natural tuning of the earbud. Suggestions?


----------



## Luchyres

d3myz said:


> Anyone using spinfit's with the L2pro? I'm looking for a wide bore tip, that's not an Auvio, Spiral Dot or Spinfit 360 (not wide bore) that's also really soft. I have some Tenmark tips I got from ali express and the medium is a touch too small and the tips don't fit snug on any of my TWS' so they don't seal. I like spinfits and the spiral dots, but the dots make the BA in the L2pro too sharp and the 360's seem to bump the mid bass and reduce the high mids. Any suggestions? I like wide bore because it seems to let all the sound through without impeding the natural tuning of the earbud. Suggestions?



When I had them, I auditioned them with a wide bore spinfit.... they were a rebrand so all white - but I think it was a medium CP-145. 

I'd say they improved the sound for me - I was already obsessing over my unit's perceived mid-dip and treble spike - and I would say these helped in that they had less harsh highs (opening up the mids a biiiiittt more) and didn't further emphasize the bass - but obviously didn't save the headphone for me.

Given nobody else yet has considered these as "unlistenable" (which I did conclude for me - I liked them better for calls than most tracks) I'm wondering if my unit was flawed.


----------



## Soreniglio

What about these?


----------



## rhsauer

hifi80sman said:


> I just got the Liberty 2 Pro yesterday, and yes, there is a consistent background hiss.  It's actually louder than I was anticipating, but for me, it's not bothersome based on the type of music I listen to.  That being said, I can definitely see that being a huge turn off for some people.



Got the Liberty 2 Pros Sunday night — and yes, there is a lot of white noise.  I can’t tell if the white noise continues while content is playing — but if it is I have to believe it’s slightly degrading the sound quality.  In any event, it’s annoying, and I hope they can fix it with a firmware update.

As to the sound quality, it’s really spectacular (even considering whatever the impact of the white noise might be).  They really do sound better to me than even the Sennheiser MTW or the Sony WF-1000XM3. 

In other respects, it took me a while to find tips that actually worked for my ears — none of the seven supplied sizes of tips worked.  After tip-rolling for about an hour, I’m using the V-moda Bliss(™) tips (large) right now, and they seem to work well.  With those tips, the earphones block a reasonable amount of extraneous sound.

Unfortunately, the Liberty 2’s microphone seems to be no better than any other run of the mill TWE mic (i.e., it sucks).  I just took a phone call from my desk in my office (i.e., virtually no ambient sound), and the person I was speaking with said it sounded like I was on a bad speakerphone.  I was hoping for so much more.  I’ve recorded a few voice memos, and they also failed to impress.  I had hoped that with four mics and CvC 8 (if that means anything) these earphones would be decent for calls, but they really aren’t.  They certainly don’t touch the Plantronics 5100, which is, at the moment, the gold standard for outgoing call quality among TWEs.  Perhaps they’ll fix the mic with a firmware update — but I’m not holding my breath.  I really don’t know how they can advertise “Flawless Call Quality” when it performs like this.

I’m looking forward to the Jabra 75t’s and the Amazon Buds, thinking that both will have great mics.  (Although I’m prepared to be disappointed.)  I guess my search for the perfect earphone continues.


----------



## d3myz

T


Luchyres said:


> When I had them, I auditioned them with a wide bore spinfit.... they were a rebrand so all white - but I think it was a medium CP-145.
> 
> I'd say they improved the sound for me - I was already obsessing over my unit's perceived mid-dip and treble spike - and I would say these helped in that they had less harsh highs (opening up the mids a biiiiittt more) and didn't further emphasize the bass - but obviously didn't save the headphone for me.
> 
> Given nobody else yet has considered these as "unlistenable" (which I did conclude for me - I liked them better for calls than most tracks) I'm wondering if my unit was flawed.


That is interesting, because I don't think they are very good for calls at all. My voice sounded far away to everyone I spoke too, the noise canceling was excellent, but I also noticed that they didn't sound as good on calls as some of the other TWS' I have. I too am struggling with the dip. I really need the L2pro to have some type of eq that sound good, but has more mid range. the hardware is excellent, but the EQ needs some work.


----------



## d3myz

rhsauer said:


> Got the Liberty 2 Pros Sunday night — and yes, there is a lot of white noise.  I can’t tell if the white noise continues while content is playing — but if it is I have to believe it’s slightly degrading the sound quality.  In any event, it’s annoying, and I hope they can fix it with a firmware update.
> 
> As to the sound quality, it’s really spectacular (even considering whatever the impact of the white noise might be).  They really do sound better to me than even the Sennheiser MTW or the Sony WF-1000XM3.
> 
> ...


Great impressions. I feel very similarly about the mic. it's very sub par. As to the firmware updated. I hooked the case to my computer and tried to get windows to recognize it via USB. Nothing. So it looks like the Anker Firmware updated utility is not an option to update these. I'm assuming they will doing it OTA via wireless BT? I really hope so. I would love a manual 8-10 band EQ.


----------



## d3myz

Luchyres said:


> Again, super appreciated.
> 
> Out of curiosity on the Mereba Black Truck song - can you link to the file you're listening to (spotify, Tidal?) I know there are a couple re-recordings of it...
> 
> ...


I was using the track from the album on Spotify at highest quality.


----------



## Blotto80

I don’t get the lack of talk about the Powerbeats Pro in this thread. I picked up a pair this morning and have been thoroughly impressed with them so far. I have been a huge Beats detractor for the last decade, to the point where I’m now catching ribbing from my wife for enjoying these.


----------



## clerkpalmer

Blotto80 said:


> I don’t get the lack of talk about the Powerbeats Pro in this thread. I picked up a pair this morning and have been thoroughly impressed with them so far. I have been a huge Beats detractor for the last decade, to the point where I’m now catching ribbing from my wife for enjoying these.


Ahmen brother.  Love mine. Biggest reason is the price.


----------



## Caipirina

Blotto80 said:


> I don’t get the lack of talk about the Powerbeats Pro in this thread. I picked up a pair this morning and have been thoroughly impressed with them so far. I have been a huge Beats detractor for the last decade, to the point where I’m now catching ribbing from my wife for enjoying these.



I recently auditioned them (and talked about it here) and yes, they sound impressive ...  someone else also posted that some sellers in the US have them for 199$ atm... so, there is talk about them  

i might get them some day of I find em cheaper, but as for big ticket item, I am saving up for the Bose ANC


----------



## Caipirina

Putshoesonthatmonster said:


> Hello everyone...
> 
> My head is pounding, im a little lost with what to buy.
> 
> ...



It looks like you did your homework research wise ... not much I can add, maybe look also into the Ytom / Wafefun, that's 'cheap' APTX too

Personally I can't say much about video lag, as I only watch stuff on phone from VLC and never encountered any lag issues there ... YT has just become too full of ads, and hulu / netflix don't apply to me. 
In case you have not checked reviewsite scarbir.com, he also tests for lag. 

But since you are here and about to get sucked in, you will probably end up with more than one set of TWS  
Doing the amazon order - and return when dislike thing is a common practice, if one has access to amazon


----------



## Luchyres

d3myz said:


> T
> 
> That is interesting, because I don't think they are very good for calls at all. My voice sounded far away to everyone I spoke too, the noise canceling was excellent, but I also noticed that they didn't sound as good on calls as some of the other TWS' I have. I too am struggling with the dip. I really need the L2pro to have some type of eq that sound good, but has more mid range. the hardware is excellent, but the EQ needs some work.



Hmmm, my experiment was to use them to leave myself voicemails in the windy dog park - and it did better than some of my other TWS (I have not had the Jabra though). My voice was clear on the VM - and while they didn't sound the best ever - I could hear the caller on the other end well too. I may not have tried them enough (with enough people on the other end of the line) to really have put them through their paces. I wouldn't have sent them back because of call quality in this case, though. 



Blotto80 said:


> I don’t get the lack of talk about the Powerbeats Pro in this thread. I picked up a pair this morning and have been thoroughly impressed with them so far. I have been a huge Beats detractor for the last decade, to the point where I’m now catching ribbing from my wife for enjoying these.





clerkpalmer said:


> Ahmen brother.  Love mine. Biggest reason is the price.



I'm still intrigued by them - but am trying to wait to see the MW07+ and was scared off a bit by tales of connection issues. Have you two had good connection quality so far re: phone positioning and cutouts? I hate to ask it - but how are they for call quality? 

Thanks!


----------



## Blotto80

Luchyres said:


> I'm still intrigued by them - but am trying to wait to see the MW07+ and was scared off a bit by tales of connection issues. Have you two had good connection quality so far re: phone positioning and cutouts? I hate to ask it - but how are they for call quality?
> 
> Thanks!



I’ve probably put 5-6hrs into them on my iPhone XS Max without a single dropout. Phone has only been on my desk though, I’ll report back after I go for a run with them tomorrow. I did leave my probe on my desk and run upstairs, about 20ft through walls. No issue. I took a single call earlier and didn’t notice it one way or another, I guess that would make it decent.


----------



## riodgarp

i'm still waiting for tws that so small that looks like a bullet haha


----------



## chinmie

riodgarp said:


> i'm still waiting for tws that so small that looks like a bullet haha



there's the Earin M2 that is small enough, and for something more inexpensive there's the Tiso TWS


----------



## hifi80sman (Oct 16, 2019)

rhsauer said:


> Got the Liberty 2 Pros Sunday night — and yes, there is a lot of white noise. I can’t tell if the white noise continues while content is playing — but if it is I have to believe it’s slightly degrading the sound quality. In any event, it’s annoying, and I hope they can fix it with a firmware update.
> 
> As to the sound quality, it’s really spectacular (even considering whatever the impact of the white noise might be). They really do sound better to me than even the Sennheiser MTW or the Sony WF-1000XM3.


Yep, the white noise is there when music is playing.  I'm hoping they release a firmware update to fix it, although I really don't notice because type of the music I listen to (all 80s, all the time).

As far as the mic, I took a few calls and everyone said I sounded fine.  I may have to call myself to test it out, given there's some mixed feedback.  

So far, really enjoying the SQ on these via aptX streaming from Amazon Music HD.


----------



## Putshoesonthatmonster (Oct 16, 2019)

Caipirina said:


> It looks like you did your homework research wise ... not much I can add, maybe look also into the Ytom / Wafefun, that's 'cheap' APTX too
> 
> Personally I can't say much about video lag, as I only watch stuff on phone from VLC and never encountered any lag issues there ... YT has just become too full of ads, and hulu / netflix don't apply to me.
> In case you have not checked reviewsite scarbir.com, he also tests for lag.
> ...



Yeah thanks for the reply, it seems the ones with bigger sound stages don't have apt x

I ordered the M Pow last night, what is handy is my wife is after a pair too, so that's a least 2 pairs 

I could stretch to £100ish if there is a big jump. The melomanias seem to have decent reviews, just the design is BEEPing BEEEP

I am a little dubious about the Tevi reviews and again the design doesn't look too good.

However both can be ordered and returned easily in the UK, so I may dive in. I don't want to spend too much on Ali X etc for return issues

I have had a look at scarbir.com, good info. Across the internet, the  frustrating thing when reading reviews is the lack of equipment used.

Also what did you test?  Android/iPhone Netflix's, you tube, locally stored file etc for latency issues.

Same for tunes, a decent high end file etc

However I am the saddo that likes all the info.

Then I keep thinking what about the new ankers with black Friday approaching (I have owned Anker products in the past and there warranty is exceptional) or singles day for chi-fi

I nearly took a punt ordering the TRN T200 last night, no idea why lol and with no reviews anywhere, I wasn't even drunk. That's the "what if I am missing out in me"

However I will keep lurking and chipping in with my thoughts over the next couple of months.

Decisions decisions


----------



## Bhelpoori

rhsauer said:


> Got the Liberty 2 Pros Sunday night — and yes, there is a lot of white noise.  I can’t tell if the white noise continues while content is playing — but if it is I have to believe it’s slightly degrading the sound quality.  In any event, it’s annoying, and I hope they can fix it with a firmware update.
> 
> As to the sound quality, it’s really spectacular (even considering whatever the impact of the white noise might be).  They really do sound better to me than even the Sennheiser MTW or the Sony WF-1000XM3.
> 
> ...


Very interesting info. I was moments away from pulling the trigger at $99 but now glad I didn't... given the white noise which I'm sensitive to and microphones, I'm waiting on them to see if they have an update. I really don't see how they can mess up microphone quality with 4 microphones... The Amazon Buds are looking more and more interesting but like you I'm prepared to be disappointed.


----------



## Bhelpoori

Caipirina said:


> I recently auditioned them (and talked about it here) and yes, they sound impressive ...  someone else also posted that some sellers in the US have them for 199$ atm... so, there is talk about them
> 
> i might get them some day of I find em cheaper, but as for big ticket item, I am saving up for the Bose ANC


Completely agree having auditioned them too. The Powerbeats Pro sound great provided you figure out a tip that works for you, realise they aren't that isolating and you like the fit. At $249 they are just too expensive though and are quite tempting at $199. Love the separate physical volume control too.


----------



## BigAund

Can anyone recommend a cheaper set that isolate well and sound decent? I was considering the Creative Gold ones but I use them on the tube and its noisy as hell so I want something with good isolation.


----------



## IamJon

Bhelpoori said:


> Very interesting info. I was moments away from pulling the trigger at $99 but now glad I didn't... given the white noise which I'm sensitive to and microphones, I'm waiting on them to see if they have an update. I really don't see how they can mess up microphone quality with 4 microphones... The Amazon Buds are looking more and more interesting but like you I'm prepared to be disappointed.



Still waiting for mine to dispatch. There are rumours on the soundcore community site that they waiting for stock of a revised edition which fixes the background hiss. Hopefully they can get it sorted, was expecting better given the hype and premium price.

Those TRN t200's keep tempting me, looks like a similar dual driver setup to the LPro2. Anyone got them yet?


----------



## Caipirina

riodgarp said:


> i'm still waiting for tws that so small that looks like a bullet haha



i still have these on my wishlist. But they are BT 4.2 only and I think they are pretty big bullets (like .600 caliber)


----------



## chinmie

Caipirina said:


> i still have these on my wishlist. But they are BT 4.2 only and I think they are pretty big bullets (like .600 caliber)



and don't forget the Melomania. i also found some of that form factor ypu posted on aliexpress with different case and BT 5.0. I'll try to dig in later and post here when i find them


----------



## Caipirina (Oct 16, 2019)

chinmie said:


> and don't forget the Melomania. i also found some of that form factor ypu posted on aliexpress with different case and BT 5.0. I'll try to dig in later and post here when i find them


Like these?



I have seen this form factor around for months and been curious, but never curious enough 
But I asked around here back in May if anyone has experience with this form factor ...


----------



## chinmie

Caipirina said:


> Like these?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



my only concern with this form factor is that it would stick out weirdly


----------



## d3myz

IamJon said:


> Still waiting for mine to dispatch. There are rumours on the soundcore community site that they waiting for stock of a revised edition which fixes the background hiss. Hopefully they can get it sorted, was expecting better given the hype and premium price.
> 
> Those TRN t200's keep tempting me, looks like a similar dual driver setup to the LPro2. Anyone got them yet?


Interesting to hear all these comments about background hiss, My L2pros don't have any. I hear two soft little pops when the sound engages initially for siri and playing music, but that's it. I'm using an Iphone XS Max. has anyone noticed the hiss when doing the hear id test?


----------



## dwil

I'm about to hit the button on the mifo o5 dd.... can anyone talk me out of it? Is my money better spent elsewhere? 

I'm looking for a smooth warm sound that isn't fatiguing.


----------



## webvan

Jim's posted a review of the Lypertek Tevi :  - he's not too impressed, so-so passive isolation and lack of bass. The mics sound rather bad too


----------



## d3myz

webvan said:


> Jim's posted a review of the Lypertek Tevi :  - he's not too impressed, so-so passive isolation and lack of bass. The mics sound rather bad too



I agree it's def. not worth $90. even for $40 it's still not that exciting to listen to music on.


----------



## Oscar-HiFi (Oct 16, 2019)

webvan said:


> Jim's posted a review of the Lypertek Tevi :  - he's not too impressed, so-so passive isolation and lack of bass. The mics sound rather bad too




Hum... whenever I see people say these "lack bass" the first thing that comes to mind is either they have a bad seal, or they are used to bass oriented earphones. I use the Tevi a lot, mainly with metal / hard rock and they don't lack bass at all. Also phone calls with my other half, she didn't even know I was using the Tevi as the sound was crystal clear and I was walking outside to the shops.

As the review states so-so passive isolation, this pretty much confirms my thoughts on the poor seal theory. They isolate as well as most dynamic driver IEM's, but not as well as fully sealed BA models.

Oh well, they do have a more neutral sound that some people just won't enjoy.


----------



## clerkpalmer

d3myz said:


> Interesting to hear all these comments about background hiss, My L2pros don't have any. I hear two soft little pops when the sound engages initially for siri and playing music, but that's it. I'm using an Iphone XS Max. has anyone noticed the hiss when doing the hear id test?



Mine finally shipped yesterday so I will report back upon receipt regarding the hiss. I'm used to it with the BT20 so it probably won't bother me much.


----------



## webvan

Oscar-HiFi said:


> Hum... whenever I see people say these "lack bass" the first thing that comes to mind is either they have a bad seal, or they are used to bass oriented earphones. I use the Tevi a lot, mainly with metal / hard rock and they don't lack bass at all. *Also phone calls with my other half, she didn't even know I was using the Tevi as the sound was crystal clear and I was walking outside to the shops.*
> 
> As the review states so-so passive isolation, this pretty much confirms my thoughts on the poor seal theory. They isolate as well as most dynamic driver IEM's, but not as well as fully sealed BA models.
> 
> Oh well, they do have a more neutral sound that some people just won't enjoy.



You should have watched the video, he provides a mic recording sample and it's not "crystal clear" at all.


----------



## vladzakhar

d3myz said:


> Interesting to hear all these comments about background hiss, My L2pros don't have any. I hear two soft little pops when the sound engages initially for siri and playing music, but that's it. I'm using an Iphone XS Max. has anyone noticed the hiss when doing the hear id test?


 
I have no hiss on my unit ether. I use the same Iphone XS Max.


----------



## Luchyres

My LPro2 had a bit of white noise when not playing audio - but nothing too bad/any worse than many of the other TWS or even an IEM/BT20s combo - it seems to me that the hissing/white noise for you gents (& ladies if you're out there) is a bit worse than what I experienced. I could def tell when the buds were on but not playing music - but for me it was the sound signature that killed them - not the hiss. 

Curious to see if we come to find some/any of these issues are fixed with firmware - or what the overall consensus is on the Aker re: quality control in a month or so... I'm still tempted to get the Liberty 2 non-pro just to audition - but these QC issues and the experiences y'all have had with the mic quality is giving me reason to pause and wait. Thanks for your input!


----------



## clerkpalmer

Luchyres said:


> My LPro2 had a bit of white noise when not playing audio - but nothing too bad/any worse than many of the other TWS or even an IEM/BT20s combo - it seems to me that the hissing/white noise for you gents (& ladies if you're out there) is a bit worse than what I experienced. I could def tell when the buds were on but not playing music - but for me it was the sound signature that killed them - not the hiss.
> 
> Curious to see if we come to find some/any of these issues are fixed with firmware - or what the overall consensus is on the Aker re: quality control in a month or so... I'm still tempted to get the Liberty 2 non-pro just to audition - but these QC issues and the experiences y'all have had with the mic quality is giving me reason to pause and wait. Thanks for your input!



What didn't you like about the sound? Seems like most reports have been very positive.


----------



## BigZ12 (Oct 16, 2019)

webvan said:


> Jim's posted a review of the Lypertek Tevi :  - he's not too impressed, so-so passive isolation and lack of bass. The mics sound rather bad too



My God, look at how they don't fit his ears AT ALL!!! Almost the entire bud is sticking out of his ear :O :O
No wonder he hasn't enough bass, and they are moving around when he is jogging...
Maybe this is why some of you don't like them? You have the same abysmal fit?!?

WIth me these are tucked tight in place, pretty deep inside, with no movement at all!

Edit: I can see that fit could be a problem with the form factor of the Tevi, especially compared with the "snug" Anbes 359. I can actually sleep on the side with the 359s, without noticing them.


----------



## webvan

Yeah they do stick out a lot but so do the Senns. He's an experienced reviewer so he would (hopefully) know if he's getting a seal or not and what the dire consequences of not having one are ! Having said that it's very true that all our ears are different so some TWS/IEMs will work for us and some won't. Even within a brand, like the Sony WF-1000Xm3 that just don't work for me, while the WF-1000X did.


----------



## chinmie

dwil said:


> I'm about to hit the button on the mifo o5 dd.... can anyone talk me out of it? Is my money better spent elsewhere?
> 
> I'm looking for a smooth warm sound that isn't fatiguing.



is using an earhook design like the BT20 combo an option?if yes, i recommend purchasing the Blon BL 03 and a BT20/S


----------



## Putshoesonthatmonster (Oct 16, 2019)

I've ordered  TRN T200 from fast tech, they reckon dispatch on the 17th. So hopefully I should have them in 3 weeks


----------



## d3myz

BigZ12 said:


> My God, look at how they don't fit his ears AT ALL!!! Almost the entire bud is sticking out of his ear :O :O
> No wonder he hasn't enough bass, and they are moving around when he is jogging...
> Maybe this is why some of you don't like them? You have the same abysmal fit?!?
> 
> ...



 Well to be fair, The Tevi and T5 stick out of my ears if I don't turn them horizontally They also fit further out when I use my M/S spiral dots. You don't have to have an earbud shoved all the way in your canal to get a good seal. Like I've mentioned, I've used the same tips on both. If I were to give the bass of the Tevi a number it would be 3-4, compared to the bass of the T5 would be a 6-7. and the bass of the L2pro a 9. interestingly enough the L2pro does a really good job handling different bass frequencies so its' not all muddied and boomy. @BigZ12 you should check them out, i'd love to hear your thoughts.


----------



## Luchyres

clerkpalmer said:


> What didn't you like about the sound? Seems like most reports have been very positive.



My impressions of the LPro2 are here: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/goi...re-we-there-yet.861024/page-879#post-15237222 

For me, they initially sounded promising (1000XM3 beating for me for sure). However, I started to notice that the mids were veiled/distant but with a peaky/compressed sounding treble spike and then roll off. It sounds to me like the crossover from the DD to BA is poorly handled and that the mids suffer and that everything in the vocal to hi-hat range all gets pushed together tonally and spatially and issued out of a tweeter. 

My personal bias is to go for large DD over BA as I like the energy - but I can appreciate the clarity and benefits of a good BA - my particular LPro2 did not have that sound/clarity - a tweeter riding on a sea of bass. 

This effect was less pronounced at quieter volumes, but once I heard it - it was like the Fedex arrow - I couldn't _stop _ hearing it. I tried them for a few listening sessions - but when compared with my other setups, I can't bring myself to use them for even remotely critical listening. 

I agree that overall the impressions have been much more positive - some I think is due to personal taste/ear/sensitivities etc - and some of it I'm wondering if it isn't poor tuning QC affecting my unit.


----------



## Rozzko

SO much bluetooth...
Can someone please tell, what now its the best sounding bluetooth buds? i mean no lean,monitor sound. I mean quality fun, but again quality sound.
THANKS


----------



## 13gsc13

Good day
I have been following this thread for quite a while now
I had purchased the Bose True Wireless and enjoyed the sound of them but my 16 year old son tried them and I haven't seen them since 
So I ordered a pair of Sennheiser Momentum True Wireless and they should be here next week
Did all my research and feel that they will best suit my sound needs - country music (new and old) and 70's - 80's hits
I don't mind paying more for better sound
The charging issue doesn't bother me as I'll use them every evening at bedtime - music relaxes me and helps me get to sleep
I'm really looking forward to them
We'll see when they get here


----------



## d3myz

Community Poll for those with the Liberty 2 Pro.

Those who are having issues with hiss, what device are you using? Android, Iphone etc? Using AptX or AAC?

I'd be interested to see if this is an issue caused by the type of phone or OS etc. I have an iPhone XS Max  using AAC and my MBP using AptX and have no hiss. I've cranked the volume all the way up on audiobooks and 0 bit tracks like this one. without any white noise or hiss. Now if they'd just fix they garbage mic. I just left myself a message using my computer and the mic sounds awful.


----------



## d3myz

Rozzko said:


> SO much bluetooth...
> Can someone please tell, what now its the best sounding bluetooth buds? i mean no lean,monitor sound. I mean quality fun, but again quality sound.
> THANKS


What's your price range? If you search this thread using they key word Top, top 5, top 10 etc. you'll pull up some of the best ones. I like the Anbes 359/SSK BT03, Mpow T5, Tranya T3, BT530, Lystar J29, and the Anker Soundcore Liberty 2 Pro. the L2pro is probably the highest quality all around and def. the most expensive I own, but they lack some mid range whereas the 359 is more balanced, but really fun sounding. the T5 has very boosted mids, but still sounds fantastic. "best sounding" is a relative term and highly subjective.


----------



## AtariPrime (Oct 16, 2019)

Oscar-HiFi said:


> Hum... whenever I see people say these "lack bass" the first thing that comes to mind is either they have a bad seal, or they are used to bass oriented earphones. I use the Tevi a lot, mainly with metal / hard rock and they don't lack bass at all. Also phone calls with my other half, she didn't even know I was using the Tevi as the sound was crystal clear and I was walking outside to the shops.
> 
> As the review states so-so passive isolation, this pretty much confirms my thoughts on the poor seal theory. They isolate as well as most dynamic driver IEM's, but not as well as fully sealed BA models.
> 
> Oh well, they do have a more neutral sound that some people just won't enjoy.



It is hard to get bass out of an earbud so 'bass oriented' is unlikely in most models. That said, it sounds like you might be in the group that is a bit anti-bass.  Music was never intended to be listened to by the artist using a neutral sound profile.  Go to any concert and you will hear how the artist intended their song to be heard, and it is often heavy on the bass.  Music on albums is not recorded more neutral because that is how it was intended to be listened to (certain instruments should overpower the others) but because there are a number of different ways to tune and speakers out there that greatly impact the sound signature and tuning it too heavy one way or the other could greatly impact the sound of the music on a given device.  All that said, much like wine, there is no right answer, if it tastes good drink it.


----------



## cacio (Oct 16, 2019)

I just "sold" my Mpow T5 to my sister (her Tiso i5 "lost" max volume. on another pair of i5 from my mother, the left bud lost some volume too. Tiso send new left bud which "fixed" the issue)

The point is, I need new headphones which are at least as good as the MPOW T5. And the TRN T200 looked good. But since there are no reviews here, I didn't wanted to buy a cat in a sack (like I did with KZ T1. I "gifted" them to a friend xD)

But I found some reviews of the T200 on taobao (through the official TRN T200 webpage)

https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?sp...3d093cZAcTl&id=604024627999&scene=taobao_shop

And what I got from the translator didn't sound as promising as I hoped it to be. Seems to be "good" for the price. But not awesome :/

So I'll better wait till some of you who have already ordered it, to give some feedback if they are worth it compared to MPOW T5

EDIT: btw the Tiso i5 have by far the best overall physical design. ultra compact case and small headphones. i wish there would a a "Pro" version with some high quality micro DD and aptX (or better)


----------



## AtariPrime

Google just revealed their new Pixel Buds 2 today.

Honestly, they look pretty darn good and have an nice small case.

There's no info yet on how they sound.  They are supposed to have 'three rooms' worth of range.  They promise 5 hours of battery life (fairly short) and 24 hours in the case.  The battery life will likely be a dealbreaker for me, but I really like the size of these so who knows.

They won't be out till next spring regardless.


----------



## Mouseman

cacio said:


> I just "sold" my Mpow T5 to my sister (her Tiso i5 "lost" max volume. on another pair of i5 from my mother, the left bud lost some volume too. Tiso send new left bud which "fixed" the issue)
> 
> The point is, I need new headphones which are at least as good as the MPOW T5. And the TRN T200 looked good. But since there are no reviews here, I didn't wanted to buy a cat in a sack (like I did with KZ T1. I "gifted" them to a friend xD)
> 
> ...


If you like the T5, I think you'd really like the Tranya B530. I think it edges it out in SQ and comfort. The case is smaller (at least in height) than the T5.


----------



## cacio

Mouseman said:


> If you like the T5, I think you'd really like the Tranya B530. I think it edges it out in SQ and comfort. The case is smaller (at least in height) than the T5.


thanks. they are even on amazon germany   sadly no aptX . i guess i have to make my hands "dirty" to force SBC "HD" on LineageOS (right now, SBC HD disappears when there is AAC or better).

https://forum.xda-developers.com/android/software-hacking/improve-bluetooth-audio-quality-t3832615


----------



## Rozzko

d3myz said:


> What's your price range? If you search this thread using they key word Top, top 5, top 10 etc. you'll pull up some of the best ones. I like the Anbes 359/SSK BT03, Mpow T5, Tranya T3, BT530, Lystar J29, and the Anker Soundcore Liberty 2 Pro. the L2pro is probably the highest quality all around and def. the most expensive I own, but they lack some mid range whereas the 359 is more balanced, but really fun sounding. the T5 has very boosted mids, but still sounds fantastic. "best sounding" is a relative term and highly subjective.


All prices. I think from 100 to 200$


----------



## gibletzor

I don't remember who was talking up these Auvio eartips from Radio Shack but these are fantastic.  Thank you for the recommendation!


----------



## CocaCola15 (Oct 16, 2019)

d3myz said:


> Community Poll for those with the Liberty 2 Pro.
> 
> Those who are having issues with hiss, what device are you using? Android, Iphone etc? Using AptX or AAC?
> 
> I'd be interested to see if this is an issue caused by the type of phone or OS etc. I have an iPhone XS Max  using AAC and my MBP using AptX and have no hiss. I've cranked the volume all the way up on audiobooks and 0 bit tracks like this one. without any white noise or hiss. Now if they'd just fix they garbage mic. I just left myself a message using my computer and the mic sounds awful.


Just listened to the L2 Pro OOB and didn't hear a peep re  hiss, silence was golden. I do have to EQ them a bit using the 20-band EQ on Kaiser Audio app (have not installed the Anker app yet), to shape the sound a bit to my tastes (no audiophile here). I don't use any BT phones for critical listening-type sound, I have wired phones for that. I just wanted very good sound in a comfortable BT TW phone, and I think the L2 Pro may be the ticket, along with the Cambridge Melomania 1 I have had for a few months. I tried some lower cost TW ChiFi phones (still have Tranya T1 and a $29 pair of QCY TW buds) and while pretty good. not on the same level as the M1s or L2 Pro for me.

As for calls, I guess I am more old school (boring, I know) when it comes to the phone. I either don't take calls when out and about using TW phones, unless it's a close family member, or I take the bud out of my ear and use the phone itself. I am going to call my wife and see what she thinks of the clarity. But not a deal breaker for me.

Update: I just called her and she said while my voice was a bit "hollow" sound was was crisp and clear. Guess that ends it for me in terms of that issue.

I have an iPhone 8+ with 13.1.3 iOS (which was just released), which means I am using AAC. Either the L2 Pro is perfect with iOS/Apple or my ears suck: A win-win in either case.


----------



## d3myz

AtariPrime said:


> It is hard to get bass out of an earbud so 'bass oriented' is unlikely in most models. That said, it sounds like you might be in the group that is a bit anti-bass.  Music was never intended to be listened to by the artist using a neutral sound profile.  Go to any concert and you will hear how the artist intended their song to be heard, and it is often heavy on the bass.  Music on albums is not recorded more neutral because that is how it was intended to be listened to (certain instruments should overpower the others) but because there are a number of different ways to tune and speakers out there that greatly impact the sound signature and tuning it too heavy one way or the other could greatly impact the sound of the music on a given device.  All that said, much like wine, there is no right answer, if it tastes good drink it.



I totally agree. When I was apprenticing at a studio, then engineer told me the way to tell a good mix is to turn the volume all the way down then bump it up slowly. The first thing you should hear is the snare drum, then the vocals, then the guitars and the bass guitar should be the same volume as the guitars etc. I find that's still true with a lot of songs I consider to be mixed well. Neutral or flat sound is what I always wanted when I was using IEM's for drumming on stage. It was more important for me to hear everything equally. I needed to hear the tones and attack, of my kick and the bass guitar not the sub bass or boom etc. When I listen to music for enjoyment that's a totally different story. they Tevi's sound great for clarity, they do have a little bass, but they are not balanced, which is really good if you are bass averse. To me they just aren't just not enjoyable, like say the 359's, T5's, and the L2pro's. I also agree. The most important is not what anyone else's opinion is, it's your own and what you enjoy.


----------



## d3myz

gibletzor said:


> I don't remember who was talking up these Auvio eartips from Radio Shack but these are fantastic.  Thank you for the recommendation!


@Slater


----------



## dwil

chinmie said:


> is using an earhook design like the BT20 combo an option?if yes, i recommend purchasing the Blon BL 03 and a BT20/S



Not really looking for the earhook design.

Right now just struggling to pick between mifo o5 and sabat e12/ultra.


----------



## FYLegend (Oct 16, 2019)

I just got my Sabbat E12 Ultra, blue camo version today. It does have wireless charging even though it's not mentioned on the box. It doesn't sound much different from the dud original E12 I received a while back. The eartips are much better than the originals. Bass is much more balanced though maybe slightly slanted right, but bearable (as with my Jabees Firefly Pro). Mids and treble still seems stronger on the left side though it seems to be only noticeable in songs with peaky percussion. Either I'm unlucky second time or people are just oblivious to it. If all else fails I might just tap foam on one side.


----------



## tlau1125

cacio said:


> I just "sold" my Mpow T5 to my sister (her Tiso i5 "lost" max volume. on another pair of i5 from my mother, the left bud lost some volume too. Tiso send new left bud which "fixed" the issue)
> 
> The point is, I need new headphones which are at least as good as the MPOW T5. And the TRN T200 looked good. But since there are no reviews here, I didn't wanted to buy a cat in a sack (like I did with KZ T1. I "gifted" them to a friend xD)
> 
> ...



I will try to translate and highlight some sound quality comments that contain some details from taobao .  Do note the comments are from different people and therefore they can contradict each other:
- "Stunning". No delay or drop off.  1more is "trash"(?) in comparison. Vocal clear, powerful bass, treble rounded.
- suitable for all kinds of music. Low and Mid totally satisfactory. Details ok.  Treble lacks some "sharpness".  Wish background noise is a bit lower.
- matches expectation given the price.  Sound quality not bad but background hiss may drive some people crazy.
- good enough.
- Sounds a bit harsh.  Will wait for burn-in
- "Stunning", leave similar priced products in the dust.


----------



## d3myz

FYLegend said:


> I just got my Sabbat E12 Ultra, blue camo version today. It does have wireless charging even though it's not mentioned on the box. It doesn't sound much different from the dud original E12 I received a while back. The eartips are much better than the originals. Bass is much more balanced though maybe slightly slanted right, but bearable (as with my Jabees Firefly Pro). Mids and treble still seems stronger on the left side though it seems to be only noticeable in songs with peaky percussion. Either I'm unlucky second time or people are just oblivious to it. If all else fails I might just tap foam on one side.


Interesting you mention that. I was doing the Hear ID test on the Liberty 2 pro and I noticed there are a few frequencies I don't hear as well in my left ear, that are fine in my right. I've never noticed before on any TWS I've had, but once I like the hear ID correct it, I could tell a slight difference. Then again I've also noticed an imbalance with certain TWS' like the Anbes, QCY t1c and the Lystar J29. all corrected after stopping and starting a track or resetting the buds. Either way, sorry to hear about this. I've been warming up to getting the Sabbat E12, but I don't remember which is the BA and which is the DD etc. I'll have to read through the thread.


----------



## dwil

Does anyone have a resource where I can look up the weight and dimensions of the Mifo o5 charging case vs the sabbat e12 ultra charging case?

I'm not sure if I should be discouraged by the bulkiness of the o5's case. Is it uncomfortably heavy in comparison to other tws iems?


----------



## D3soLaT3

Look what came in the mail today.



 
Finally get to hear the legends for myself and find out if AptX is necessary.


----------



## Grayson73

cigarello said:


> Hey guys are the anbes 359 still considered the best tws under $50?



I prefer the Anbes 359 to be better than the Mpow T5 and Soundpeats TrueFree+.  Mpow T5 soundstage was too narrow.


----------



## FYLegend

d3myz said:


> Interesting you mention that. I was doing the Hear ID test on the Liberty 2 pro and I noticed there are a few frequencies I don't hear as well in my left ear, that are fine in my right. I've never noticed before on any TWS I've had, but once I like the hear ID correct it, I could tell a slight difference. Then again I've also noticed an imbalance with certain TWS' like the Anbes, QCY t1c and the Lystar J29. all corrected after stopping and starting a track or resetting the buds. Either way, sorry to hear about this. I've been warming up to getting the Sabbat E12, but I don't remember which is the BA and which is the DD etc. I'll have to read through the thread.


The E12 Ultra is DD, they only added AptX and improved call quality to the new version.

I've noticed imbalance on nearly all TWS I've tried so far, and this is taking account my own hearing imbalance (which is something like more bass on left, sibilance right). However, in the case of Jabees Firefly Pro and Jabra 65t the imbalance is "smooth" and not as noticeable. The hiss on the left ear on the 65t is still annoying though. On some others if the mids or bass only peak on one side I start to become more irritated.

On my Note 9 Exynos, Bluetooth latency in gaming is still quite noticeable with AptX of the E12 Ultra. Unfortunately Samsung still doesn't support AptX LL or AptX HD which puts them at a big disadvantage. With normal BT audio devices the latency is still doable for some games, after the Android Pie update. However,  Windows 10's Bluetooth Latency is much better be it SBC or AptX using TWS, but on my laptop it can be dodgy when opening an intensive app or when my hand is left of the touchpad.


----------



## Grayson73

D3soLaT3 said:


> Look what came in the mail today.
> 
> Finally get to hear the legends for myself and find out if AptX is necessary.



What brand is that and where did you get it?  Are you trying to figure out if it's the same as Anbes 359?


----------



## rhsauer

d3myz said:


> Community Poll for those with the Liberty 2 Pro.
> 
> Those who are having issues with hiss, what device are you using? Android, Iphone etc? Using AptX or AAC?
> 
> I'd be interested to see if this is an issue caused by the type of phone or OS etc. I have an iPhone XS Max  using AAC and my MBP using AptX and have no hiss. I've cranked the volume all the way up on audiobooks and 0 bit tracks like this one. without any white noise or hiss. Now if they'd just fix they garbage mic. I just left myself a message using my computer and the mic sounds awful.



I’m using an iPhone 11 Pro Max and the hiss is there.  And the mic is truly disappointing.  I’m really hoping the mic’s issue is firmware related and not hardware related.  Why would bother to use four microphones if there’s no benefit?


----------



## D3soLaT3

Grayson73 said:


> What brand is that and where did you get it?  Are you trying to figure out if it's the same as Anbes 359?


These are unbranded but show up in the Bluetooth settings as Air. This variant has been discussed on this forum before and are identical to the Anbes, SSK, and other variants. See my previous posts for link to Amazon (U.S) but I purchased them on eBay here.


----------



## vstolpner

dwil said:


> Does anyone have a resource where I can look up the weight and dimensions of the Mifo o5 charging case vs the sabbat e12 ultra charging case?
> 
> I'm not sure if I should be discouraged by the bulkiness of the o5's case. Is it uncomfortably heavy in comparison to other tws iems?



The O5 case is a little bulky and heavy, but it's shape really makes up for it. It's way more pocketable than the Mpow T5, but less so compared to Anbes 359 or Shanling MTW100.


----------



## BobJS (Oct 16, 2019)

d3myz said:


> Community Poll for those with the Liberty 2 Pro.
> 
> Those who are having issues with hiss, what device are you using? Android, Iphone etc? Using AptX or AAC?
> I'd be interested to see if this is an issue caused by the type of phone or OS etc. I have an iPhone XS Max  using AAC and my MBP using AptX and have no hiss. I've cranked the volume all the way up on audiobooks and 0 bit tracks like this one. without any white noise or hiss. Now if they'd just fix they garbage mic. I just left myself a message using my computer and the mic sounds awful.



Galaxy S10+. Aptx. No discernible hiss.

Still trying to decide if these are keepers.  I probably will, as they sound pretty good. I was surprised to find the personalized sound profile actually improved upon their default profile for me.
As for the mic, I left myself a recorded message on my home phone but haven't listened to it yet!

Edit:  Just listened to the recording.  Loud but very tinny.  Disappointing for a TW of this size and price.  The tiny (not tinny!) Galaxy buds mic sounded much better.


----------



## d3myz

rhsauer said:


> I’m using an iPhone 11 Pro Max and the hiss is there.  And the mic is truly disappointing.  I’m really hoping the mic’s issue is firmware related and not hardware related.  Why would bother to use four microphones if there’s no benefit?


What version of iOS are you on? I'm on 13.2 beta 3, not sure that's related though.


----------



## d3myz

D3soLaT3 said:


> These are unbranded but show up in the Bluetooth settings as Air. This variant has been discussed on this forum before and are identical to the Anbes, SSK, and other variants. See my previous posts for link to Amazon (U.S) but I purchased them on eBay here.


How do they sound? do you have a Anbes, SSK or Kissral to compare?


----------



## howdy

Picked these up today and trying them out. It was pretty cool how they hooked themselves up to my iPod touch, I didn't have to do a thing.


----------



## chinmie

dwil said:


> Not really looking for the earhook design.
> 
> Right now just struggling to pick between mifo o5 and sabat e12/ultra.





dwil said:


> Does anyone have a resource where I can look up the weight and dimensions of the Mifo o5 charging case vs the sabbat e12 ultra charging case?
> 
> I'm not sure if I should be discouraged by the bulkiness of the o5's case. Is it uncomfortably heavy in comparison to other tws iems?


} 

between those two, I'll pick the Mifo. the case is heavier than others, but also much stronger and has longer battery than other cases


----------



## webvan

So did anyone ever get the X12 Ultra ? They're now at a tempting 38€ on AE. Too bad about the Camo colors though !


----------



## wizll

d3myz said:


> Interesting to hear all these comments about background hiss, My L2pros don't have any. I hear two soft little pops when the sound engages initially for siri and playing music, but that's it. I'm using an Iphone XS Max. has anyone noticed the hiss when doing the hear id test?


is your definition of a hiss like white noise? i would consider it a very low white noise more like a hum, after the sound engages with a blip. not exactly noticeable with music. very noticeable with audiobooks/talk podcasts or single instrument classical like a piano track. talked about a bit on the soundcore forums https://community.soundcore.com/t/liberty-pro-2-background-noise/26627/96. trying to get an answer from soundcore whether this is a hardware issue or a firmware fixable issue.


----------



## FYLegend (Oct 16, 2019)

Also, Sabbat E12 Ultra's mono mode isn't truly mono. It won't downmix to mono when you put one bud into the case. So I can't listen to Who Needs You by Queen in mono! 

If you put the one that was not set as "master" before, it will turn temporarily cut and re-pair itself as a duplicate which is kinda annoying. For some odd reason I woke up this morning to find that the left bud wouldn't pair with the right bud, until I did a factory reset. In comparison the Jabees Firefly Pro has quite seamless single bud use.


----------



## D3soLaT3

d3myz said:


> How do they sound? do you have a Anbes, SSK or Kissral to compare?


I do not have any other variant to compare. If it means anything to you these sound incredible. I went from the Lenovo HT10, to the Lasuney T2s, to Bomakers, and now to these and each one has gotten "better" than the last. I can see what the fuss is about these and I think they are deserving of the hype. I am going to do some more listening but for my library and the gear I have the UFOs sound fantastic.


----------



## dwil

Whats the final verdict on the bomakers? I've heard some people say it has rumbly bass, others say its thin and bright and harsh. They're really nice looking with a tiny case, they've been on my radar for a while, but never got to buying them. Can anyone describe their sound? Is it bright/harsh?


----------



## nadz

https://hifigo.com/blogs/news/1more-anc-tws-coming-the-first-anc-tws-from-1more-hifigo

Finally. 1more ANC. But at usd199?


----------



## albau

nadz said:


> https://hifigo.com/blogs/news/1more-anc-tws-coming-the-first-anc-tws-from-1more-hifigo
> 
> Finally. 1more ANC. But at usd199?


Why not? Brand name with decent sonic cred, ANC, hybrid DD/BA drivers. Not everything Chinese is ChiFi .


----------



## voicemaster

Just received mpow t5 from amazon and ootb I am impressed by its sound. I just bought tranya b530 last week and it sounds pretty impressive too, but I think I am liking the t5 more. Both sounds great imho.


----------



## nadz

albau said:


> Why not? Brand name with decent sonic cred, ANC, hybrid DD/BA drivers. Not everything Chinese is ChiFi .



At CES, it was rumored to launch at usd149 on indiegogo (of all places). I'm kind of disappointed but hey, Liberty Pro 2s are also hybrids and they cost usd149 with no ANC. The Dual Driver BT ANC costs usd100 nowadays, so theres still hope and waiting game to go about


----------



## karloil

webvan said:


> Jim's posted a review of the Lypertek Tevi :  - he's not too impressed, so-so passive isolation and lack of bass. The mics sound rather bad too




5:18: You have to "Disconnect" the current connected device in order to connect to another device. Not "Unpair". 

I'm happy with mine  Bass is enough for me (using Spinfits). Keeps my head bobbing while listening to my pop tracks.


----------



## riodgarp

chinmie said:


> there's the Earin M2 that is small enough, and for something more inexpensive there's the Tiso TWS





Caipirina said:


> i still have these on my wishlist. But they are BT 4.2 only and I think they are pretty big bullets (like .600 caliber)



I mean so small like etymotic's housing but then I thought it's will be harder to add physical button or touch button  haha


----------



## mattedialdoc

dwil said:


> Whats the final verdict on the bomakers? I've heard some people say it has rumbly bass, others say its thin and bright and harsh. They're really nice looking with a tiny case, they've been on my radar for a while, but never got to buying them. Can anyone describe their sound? Is it bright/harsh?



I love the Bomakers. Checks most boxes . And they were $31 so I mean come on!


----------



## XGUGU

riodgarp said:


> I mean so small like etymotic's housing but then I thought it's will be harder to add physical button or touch button  haha


Or problem fitting even a battery


----------



## d3myz

wizll said:


> is your definition of a hiss like white noise? i would consider it a very low white noise more like a hum, after the sound engages with a blip. not exactly noticeable with music. very noticeable with audiobooks/talk podcasts or single instrument classical like a piano track. talked about a bit on the soundcore forums https://community.soundcore.com/t/liberty-pro-2-background-noise/26627/96. trying to get an answer from soundcore whether this is a hardware issue or a firmware fixable issue.


I hear the blips, but not any hum or white noise.


----------



## d3myz

D3soLaT3 said:


> I do not have any other variant to compare. If it means anything to you these sound incredible. I went from the Lenovo HT10, to the Lasuney T2s, to Bomakers, and now to these and each one has gotten "better" than the last. I can see what the fuss is about these and I think they are deserving of the hype. I am going to do some more listening but for my library and the gear I have the UFOs sound fantastic.


Thanks for the feedback. I've only had the bowmakers, but my anbes/ssk's sound much better to me.


----------



## d3myz

dwil said:


> Whats the final verdict on the bomakers? I've heard some people say it has rumbly bass, others say its thin and bright and harsh. They're really nice looking with a tiny case, they've been on my radar for a while, but never got to buying them. Can anyone describe their sound? Is it bright/harsh?


I thought they sounded good, but they were too bright for me. Caused fatigue to my ears after a short time of listening to them. They were great for audiobooks. The stem went a little deep in my ear as well. I tried using the low profile buds that came with them, but they didn't feel great. They are super well made and are def. worth checking out if you haven't heard them.


----------



## d3myz

nadz said:


> https://hifigo.com/blogs/news/1more-anc-tws-coming-the-first-anc-tws-from-1more-hifigo
> 
> Finally. 1more ANC. But at usd199?


$199 ouch.


----------



## Dellsson

Master & Dynamic introducing MW07 Go and MW07 Plus. Bluetooth 5.0 with active noice-cancelling and ambient mode... I have to upgrade....


----------



## hifi80sman

FYLegend said:


> I just got my Sabbat E12 Ultra, blue camo version today. It does have wireless charging even though it's not mentioned on the box. It doesn't sound much different from the dud original E12 I received a while back. The eartips are much better than the originals. Bass is much more balanced though maybe slightly slanted right, but bearable (as with my Jabees Firefly Pro). Mids and treble still seems stronger on the left side though it seems to be only noticeable in songs with peaky percussion. Either I'm unlucky second time or people are just oblivious to it. If all else fails I might just tap foam on one side.


I think it's just poor driver matching.  I've had this on probably 50% of my purchases, however, I haven't had issues with with Sony, Bose, M&D, or Sennheiser (headphones or IEMs).  I have had the issue with (oddly) B&O, Audio-Technica, and various Chi-Fi headphones and IEMs.


----------



## hifi80sman

d3myz said:


> Community Poll for those with the Liberty 2 Pro.
> 
> Those who are having issues with hiss, what device are you using? Android, Iphone etc? Using AptX or AAC?
> 
> I'd be interested to see if this is an issue caused by the type of phone or OS etc. I have an iPhone XS Max  using AAC and my MBP using AptX and have no hiss. I've cranked the volume all the way up on audiobooks and 0 bit tracks like this one. without any white noise or hiss. Now if they'd just fix they garbage mic. I just left myself a message using my computer and the mic sounds awful.


Yeah, I hear the hiss over both AAC (iPhone Xs Max) and aptX (Galaxy s8).

Also, for me, the mic is working well.  Spent the day on them taking business calls and all was well.  People said I sounded fine and there were no complaints at all.  In fact, when I asked one person how I sounded (who knows my addiction), he was like, "Which ones are you using now?  They sound pretty good".


----------



## hifi80sman

d3myz said:


> $199 ouch.


Man, you know you're going to buy it.  

Interesting that they're using the Qualcomm 3034 SoC, which supports aptX HD.  I wonder if they're going to implement it...you can do it, 1More!


----------



## hifi80sman

MPOW M20.  Anyone try these yet?  Upgrade to T5?  This version specifically advertises Graphene drivers.


----------



## Oscar-HiFi

AtariPrime said:


> It is hard to get bass out of an earbud so 'bass oriented' is unlikely in most models. That said, it sounds like you might be in the group that is a bit anti-bass.  Music was never intended to be listened to by the artist using a neutral sound profile.  Go to any concert and you will hear how the artist intended their song to be heard, and it is often heavy on the bass.  Music on albums is not recorded more neutral because that is how it was intended to be listened to (certain instruments should overpower the others) but because there are a number of different ways to tune and speakers out there that greatly impact the sound signature and tuning it too heavy one way or the other could greatly impact the sound of the music on a given device.  All that said, much like wine, there is no right answer, if it tastes good drink it.



I go to gigs all the time, and if the sound engineer is good nothing will be boosted. Bass sounds higher due to being able to feel it from the air pushed by the massive speakers, yet highs are clear and never pushed back. But at the end of the day headphones and earphones are trying to recreate a recording most of the time, which has been recorded and mastered on studio monitors that are designed to sound neutral.


----------



## Putshoesonthatmonster

First review of the spunky beats, I have seen. Captions in English too. I would take it with a pinch of salt, lots of Tronsmart reviews in his playlist. 

However i thought I would post, personally I hate the blinking lights


----------



## Caipirina

cacio said:


> EDIT: btw the Tiso i5 have by far the best overall physical design. ultra compact case and small headphones. i wish there would a a "Pro" version with some high quality micro DD and aptX (or better)



are those i5 the same as the i4 just in a different case? Anyone know?


----------



## Caipirina

Putshoesonthatmonster said:


> First review of the spunky beats, I have seen. Captions in English too. I would take it with a pinch of salt, lots of Tronsmart reviews in his playlist.
> 
> However i thought I would post, personally I hate the blinking lights



Blinking lights are a major turn off ... 
I was tempted when I saw them for 25$ (they are now 30) .. but realized that the appeal was mainly 'hey, aptx for cheap' ... but I hardly ever use aptx ... so, my impulse buy control at work   
Hope those who ordered them will be happy with them


----------



## LordToneeus

Dellsson said:


> Master & Dynamic introducing MW07 Go and MW07 Plus. Bluetooth 5.0 with active noice-cancelling and ambient mode... I have to upgrade....



The listing for MW07 Plus is back on Best Buy’s website (sold out). This time in marble white. MW07 Go is on there too for $199 (sold out). No pic of those yet.


----------



## cacio

Caipirina said:


> are those i5 the same as the i4 just in a different case? Anyone know?


99% sure its only the case. couldn't test side by side since my sister lost the i4 and i bought the i5 directly after it. but my sister and me both agreed they sounded the same.

But I wouldn't buy them again. SQ is just good enough for FM Radio xD


----------



## clerkpalmer

LordToneeus said:


> The listing for MW07 Plus is back on Best Buy’s website (sold out). This time in marble white. MW07 Go is on there too for $199 (sold out). No pic of those yet.


I got the official release newsletter.  No ANC in the mw07 plus. So basically an upgrade to bt 5.0 and battery life. Too bad. ANC was the showstopper. The Go look more interesting to me at this point.  Shipping starts next week.


----------



## BobJS

I've put more head-time on my Anker Soundcore Liberty 2 Pro, and I'm really enjoying the sound quality.  I have no hiss.  I confess, when I first put them on I was underwhelmed with the sound.  Wasn't a fan of most of the EQs the app provided.  I must have gotten lucky with the personalized or so-called HearID profile it made for me.


----------



## BobJS (Oct 17, 2019)

clerkpalmer said:


> I got the official release newsletter.  No ANC in the mw07 plus. So basically an upgrade to bt 5.0 and battery life. Too bad. ANC was the showstopper. The Go look more interesting to me at this point.  Shipping starts next week.



That would be disappointing.  Every review I've read states something to the effect of : "The new MW07 Plus true wireless earphones also add active noise cancellation (ANC) as well as an ambient listening mode." including which button to press to invoke the 2 modes (long press on volume up or volume down).

I did see no mention of this on M&D's own site.

Considering I just placed an order, I hope the reviewers are correct and the M&D website hasn't been updated appropriately.  But I will know for sure shortly.

Edit : Correction ... from M&D website regarding MW07 Plus :


----------



## rhsauer

d3myz said:


> What version of iOS are you on? I'm on 13.2 beta 3, not sure that's related though.



I’m on iOS 13.1.3 (just released yesterday).  I’ve also noticed that when taking calls and when recording voice memos with the Liberty 2 Pros, the earphones’ bluetooth connection will randomly disconnect, then re-connect, which obviously makes them effectively unusable.  I tried calls/recordings with several other earphones without any random disconnects, so it looks like I have a defective pair of Liberty 2 Pros.  I'm hoping this is another manifestation of the defect that is also resulting in such bad call quality.

I love the sound of these 'phones, so I'm hoping a new set will not have the mic related problems.


----------



## clerkpalmer (Oct 17, 2019)

BobJS said:


> That would be disappointing.  Every review I've read states something to the effect of : "The new MW07 Plus true wireless earphones also add active noise cancellation (ANC) as well as an ambient listening mode." including which button to press to invoke the 2 modes (long press on volume up or volume down).
> 
> I did see no mention of this on M&D's own site.
> 
> Considering I just placed an order, I hope the reviewers are correct and the M&D website hasn't been updated appropriately.  But I will know for sure shortly.


It seems really hard to believe the marketing materials would miss this. I was pretty skeptical to be honest as ANC requires some technical know how and MD is more of a throwback company.  I hope you're right but I think something got lost in the translation.

Edit best buys description also says active noise cancelling. Really really weird.


----------



## BobJS

clerkpalmer said:


> It seems really hard to believe the marketing materials would miss this. I was pretty skeptical to be honest as ANC requires some technical know how and MD is more of a throwback company.  I hope you're right but I think something got lost in the translation.
> 
> Edit best buys description also says active noise cancelling. Really really weird.



See my edited post above.


----------



## clerkpalmer (Oct 17, 2019)

BobJS said:


> See my edited post above.


Yep review here

https://iphone.appleinsider.com/art...-better?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

Per m and d support, it is noise reduction not noise cancellation. still looks cool.


----------



## Blueshound24 (Oct 17, 2019)

clerkpalmer said:


> I got the official release newsletter.  No ANC in the mw07 plus. So basically an upgrade to bt 5.0 and battery life. Too bad. ANC was the showstopper. The Go look more interesting to me at this point.  Shipping starts next week.



Does anyone know if the sound signature in the mwo7, Go, and Plus are all the same? Same drivers and tuning?

EDIT: Deleted crude rant.


----------



## clerkpalmer

Blueshound24 said:


> What about MUSIC quality.
> 
> 
> Does anyone know if the sound signature in the mwo7, Go, and Plus are all the same? Same drivers and tuning?


According to reports and early reviews, yes they are the same. Same driver. Same sweet sq. I'm actually torn on which to buy.


----------



## BigZ12

BobJS said:


> That would be disappointing.  Every review I've read states something to the effect of : "The new MW07 Plus true wireless earphones also add active noise cancellation (ANC) as well as an ambient listening mode." including which button to press to invoke the 2 modes (long press on volume up or volume down).
> 
> I did see no mention of this on M&D's own site.
> 
> ...


No AAC, that's too bad for an Iphone user


----------



## clerkpalmer

BigZ12 said:


> No AAC, that's too bad for an Iphone user


I dont think that's right. They should support AAC.


----------



## Luchyres (Oct 17, 2019)

Blueshound24 said:


> What about MUSIC quality.
> 
> 
> Does anyone know if the sound signature in the mwo7, Go, and Plus are all the same? Same drivers and tuning?



Initial reviews and marketing indicate that the sound is the same between all three (original, both new models).
 


Personally, I love the smaller fabric casae of the MW07 Go and the water resistance, but I am going for the plus as I do want to try the ANC and, yes, I care about more mics/either one being mono mode for calls.

That all being said - these are the ones I've been waiting to try for SQ since joining this thread - so  that these will be my holy grail and will be my primary on the go headphones/headset. If you don't care about calls, and like one of the colors, I'd strongly encourage you to check out the MW07 GO @Blueshound24 . Fewer call oriented features, but more rugged, smaller, still good battery life and sound quality. (I just ordered the Plus, but I stiiiilll want the Go in some ways).


----------



## LordToneeus

Luchyres said:


> Initial reviews and marketing indicate that the sound is the same between all three (original, both new models).
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I am tickled pink about this release, but I'm torn about which color!  I don't talk on my phone all that much at all, and rarely ever find myself in a situation which would warrant ANC, but I'm really digging the white marble!

I have $85 in Best Buy Rewards that is burning a hole in my pocket.  I was gonna pick up the Powerbeats Pro, but now it looks like I'll wait three days and get the MW07's.


----------



## clerkpalmer

LordToneeus said:


> I am tickled pink about this release, but I'm torn about which color!  I don't talk on my phone all that much at all, and rarely ever find myself in a situation which would warrant ANC, but I'm really digging the white marble!
> 
> I have $85 in Best Buy Rewards that is burning a hole in my pocket.  I was gonna pick up the Powerbeats Pro, but now it looks like I'll wait three days and get the MW07's.



I am leaning toward the go. Ip7 means I could wear these while riding my bike and sweat all over them.  Seems more valuable to me than watered down anc.  I also think the lighter form factor may improve fit.  Tough call.


----------



## Luchyres

LordToneeus said:


> I am tickled pink about this release, but I'm torn about which color!  I don't talk on my phone all that much at all, and rarely ever find myself in a situation which would warrant ANC, but I'm really digging the white marble!
> 
> I have $85 in Best Buy Rewards that is burning a hole in my pocket.  I was gonna pick up the Powerbeats Pro, but now it looks like I'll wait three days and get the MW07's.



Yes, this release was an unexpected surprise this AM for me - I feel you on the colors. I love the Black Quartz - so that's what I went with, but I also think the White Marble looks fantastic. The Blue Steel is also gorgeous, but I am in a neutrals phase :shrugging:



clerkpalmer said:


> I am leaning toward the go. Ip7 means I could wear these while riding my bike and sweat all over them.  Seems more valuable to me than watered down anc.  I also think the lighter form factor may improve fit.  Tough call.


 
Doooooo itttt. Then we can call each other and see how we feel about mic quality and talk about our impressions live 

Y'know, I am very excited about this, but what I wouldn't give for: 

MW07 Gus - 
Smaller fabric case
Acetate (Plus) colors/casing on earbuds
IPX7 
4 mics
Use either side as Mono for calls

I'd ditch the ANC/Ambient but still pay $250 for the above - no second thoughts.


----------



## webvan

clerkpalmer said:


> I dont think that's right. They should support AAC.



Not necessarily, the Libtratone Track Air + support APTX but not AAC.

Quite a few reviews popping up on YouTube.
For those who've had both the MW07 and the WF-1000Xm3, do they hold better in the ear? I'm guessing the "wing" helps a lot for that and would help maintain the seal too.


----------



## webvan

clerkpalmer said:


> I am leaning toward the go. Ip7 means I could wear these while riding my bike and sweat all over them.  Seems more valuable to me than watered down anc.  I also think the lighter form factor may improve fit.  Tough call.



Yep, that review says they work better for sports due to their ilghter weight and that the ANC of the plus is "nothing great", hope it's not as "fairy light" as on the WF-1000X !


----------



## clerkpalmer

webvan said:


> Yep, that review says they work better for sports due to their ilghter weight and that the ANC of the plus is "nothing great", hope it's not as "fairy light" as on the WF-1000X !




It's going to be less than the sony for sure which means it's a really slight effect. It sounds more like what Amazon is doing and less like true Anc.  

Regarding AAC, that's troubling if they dont support it. 

I'm going with the GO.


----------



## TK33 (Oct 17, 2019)

clerkpalmer said:


> I am leaning toward the go. Ip7 means I could wear these while riding my bike and sweat all over them.  Seems more valuable to me than watered down anc.  I also think the lighter form factor may improve fit.  Tough call.



I believe it is IPX6 which should be fine for workouts but I also really like the idea of the smaller form factor and case (and prefer the smaller fabric case).  If only it had ambient mode...guessing a $250 MW07GO with ambient mode is too much to ask for? 

Does anyone know if you can turn the proximity sensors off or does it only turn off when you pull out both earpieces (if you have the old MW07 since these have not started shipping yet)?


----------



## clerkpalmer

So in light of the new mw07s should i just send the liberty 2 pros back?  Still haven't even arrived.


----------



## clerkpalmer

TK33 said:


> I believe it is IP6 but I also really like the idea of the smaller form factor and case (and prefer the smaller fabric case).  If only it had ambient mode...guessing a $250 MW07GO with ambient mode is too much to ask for?
> 
> Does anyone know if you can turn the proximity sensors off or does it only turn off when you pull out both earpieces (if you have the old MW07 since these have not started shipping yet)?


 Cannot be turned off on the old mw07.


----------



## clerkpalmer

Slate Grey GO ordered.  Now the wait begins.  Really hope the lighter weight results in a better fit.  The MW07 are heavy and definitely not ideal for workouts.  Perhaps these can topple my PB Pro as my go to workout set.


----------



## clerkpalmer

clerkpalmer said:


> So in light of the new mw07s should i just send the liberty 2 pros back?  Still haven't even arrived.



And right on cue, the Liberty 2 Pros arrived!  This hobby is getting out of hand, Liberty 2 arrived, KZ E10 coming next week, and MW07 Go on order.  I really think I have a problem.


----------



## blomman77

50% off at Tranya homepage with the code VO6JZFU4


----------



## Grayson73

D3soLaT3 said:


> These are unbranded but show up in the Bluetooth settings as Air. This variant has been discussed on this forum before and are identical to the Anbes, SSK, and other variants. See my previous posts for link to Amazon (U.S) but I purchased them on eBay here.



Is that the AVNICUD:
https://www.amazon.com/Wireless-Bluetooth-Cancelling-Playtime-Headphones/dp/B07XDY472C

Or the Sengbirch:
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07V26RVQ1


----------



## TK33

clerkpalmer said:


> Cannot be turned off on the old mw07.



Thanks  That's a bummer  I find it annoying when the music stops when I pull out one side  Turned off the feature on my MTWs.  I'll probably pick up a MW07Go for the office (really like the gray color) once Best Buy has them in stock


----------



## BigZ12

clerkpalmer said:


> It's going to be less than the sony for sure which means it's a really slight effect. It sounds more like what Amazon is doing and less like true Anc.
> 
> Regarding AAC, that's troubling if they dont support it.
> 
> I'm going with the GO.




There's always some feature(s) missing that ruins a complete product...


----------



## BobJS

clerkpalmer said:


> So in light of the new mw07s should i just send the liberty 2 pros back?  Still haven't even arrived.



You only live once (if you're lucky).  I've been listening to the liberty 2 pros all morning.  Keepers for me.


----------



## d3myz

hifi80sman said:


> Man, you know you're going to buy it.
> 
> Interesting that they're using the Qualcomm 3034 SoC, which supports aptX HD.  I wonder if they're going to implement it...you can do it, 1More!


Don't threaten me with a good time! I mean, I got my stylish for free, so we'll see what other offerings hit the market around the same time. I also need to get a secondary music player with AtpX/HD etc.


----------



## Grayson73

blomman77 said:


> 50% off at Tranya homepage with the code VO6JZFU4



$35 shipped for the Tranya B530, tempting!  Anyone have both the B530 and Anbes 359/SSK and if so, which do you prefer?  Does the B530 have a wide soundstage like these or are they narrow like the Mpow T5?


----------



## d3myz

hifi80sman said:


> MPOW M20.  Anyone try these yet?  Upgrade to T5?  This version specifically advertises Graphene drivers.


Nice. Think I might have to give these a shot.


----------



## blomman77

Yeah i got the B530 for that price   Don't know why,because i don't need it haha
To many TWs at the moment...



Grayson73 said:


> $35 shipped for the Tranya B530, tempting!  Anyone have both the B530 and Anbes 359/SSK and if so, which do you prefer?  Does the B530 have a wide soundstage like these or are they narrow like the Mpow T5?


----------



## d3myz

Grayson73 said:


> $35 shipped for the Tranya B530, tempting!  Anyone have both the B530 and Anbes 359/SSK and if so, which do you prefer?  Does the B530 have a wide soundstage like these or are they narrow like the Mpow T5?


I like the sound of the Anbes/ssk the best. The B530's are comfortable, but I hate touch controls. $35 is a steal. I would say the B530's soundstage is more narrow than the T5, but then again I don't think the T5 is narrow, just not as wide as the Anbes/SSK which has a really wide Soundstage.


----------



## d3myz

BobJS said:


> You only live once (if you're lucky).  I've been listening to the liberty 2 pros all morning.  Keepers for me.


Agreed, the more I use mine the more I love them. One of my buttons double clicks when I single press it, may need to do an exchange, but other then that.....


----------



## Grayson73

d3myz said:


> I like the sound of the Anbes/ssk the best. The B530's are comfortable, but I hate touch controls. $35 is a steal. I would say the B530's soundstage is more narrow than the T5, but then again I don't think the T5 is narrow, just not as wide as the Anbes/SSK which has a really wide Soundstage.



Thanks.  Anbes/SSK is my favorite also, because I do prioritize a wide soundstage.  I wonder what would have an equal or wider soundstage but be an upgrade.


----------



## Putshoesonthatmonster

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Earphones-BOMAKER-Bluetooth-Waterproof-Headphones-Black/dp/B07V6L9R4S

Any UK prime users, if you are quick can have the bomakers for £29.99 with the double discount


----------



## d3myz

Oscar-HiFi said:


> I go to gigs all the time, and if the sound engineer is good nothing will be boosted. Bass sounds higher due to being able to feel it from the air pushed by the massive speakers, yet highs are clear and never pushed back. But at the end of the day headphones and earphones are trying to recreate a recording most of the time, which has been recorded and mastered on studio monitors that are designed to sound neutral.



I'd have to say the Bass sounds higher because it's elevated, there is only one bass guitar and kick drum, maybe some low toms, that use the low end all the other instruments are mid and treble focused, to balance it out, the bass needs to be elevated. At least that's how we did it on The Warped tour. granted they were all outside shows, but again bass is also louder the further away you are, sine wave resolution time etc. All the engineers i've been around mix on at least 3 sources. Monitors, Headphones and a small set of garbage speakers. The goal is to get the track to sound good on all of them.


----------



## d3myz

Grayson73 said:


> Thanks.  Anbes/SSK is my favorite also, because I do prioritize a wide soundstage.  I wonder what would have an equal or wider soundstage but be an upgrade.


I'd give the B530's a shot. I really like mine and it's been about a week since i've used them, so I could be wrong about the soundstage.


----------



## Caipirina

All this talk about the new M&D offerings caught my attention ... don't see them on amazon. where do you guys see the colors and prices?  (I see a 179$ white marble of the 'old' model on amazon though, I recall someone was lusting for white marble  ) 
Guess I can wait though and audition them in December at e-earphone, Tokyo .. and maybe they already have a 'used' pair for cheap  ...


----------



## Grayson73

d3myz said:


> I'd give the B530's a shot. I really like mine and it's been about a week since i've used them, so I could be wrong about the soundstage.



I found the soundstage for the Mpow T5 to be very narrow.  Comparing to the SSK, it sounded 2D rather than 3D.


----------



## clerkpalmer

Caipirina said:


> All this talk about the new M&D offerings caught my attention ... don't see them on amazon. where do you guys see the colors and prices?  (I see a 179$ white marble of the 'old' model on amazon though, I recall someone was lusting for white marble  )
> Guess I can wait though and audition them in December at e-earphone, Tokyo .. and maybe they already have a 'used' pair for cheap  ...


Looks like at least in the US the launch is limited to m and d direct and best buy starting Sunday. I imagine some brief period of exclusivity with best buy before Amazon etc.


----------



## d3myz

Grayson73 said:


> I found the soundstage for the Mpow T5 to be very narrow.  Comparing to the SSK, it sounded 2D rather than 3D.


Hmm.. I've had my T5's since July and used them a lot, not sure if they burn in or not, but I wouldn't describe mine as narrow sounding. Maybe tips effect sound stage? I use JVC Spiral Dots with mine, they sound great.


----------



## webvan (Oct 17, 2019)

I wonder if the MW07 Plus use the QCC 5021 like the Libratone Track Air + since they both have ANC and the lack of AAC ?

Also one has to hope that they'll have an APP this time, to set the ANC level (on the Libratone it's needed to tweak it to remove wind noise by setting it to 11 out of 30).

So I have both the Bomaker and the T5 in my Amazon UK basket for a total of 59.98 GBP, but since I already ave too many TWS, including the Anbes that have a wonderfully "deep and wide" soung, I'm not sure they're going to be adding much, other than being new toys to play with. Anyone ?

Oh and of course I could add the Tranya B530 for $29.99+$5 shipping too !


----------



## AnakChan (Oct 17, 2019)

For those who do use the Fostex TM2, it seems Fostex has finally released the app for it for iOS :-

https://apps.apple.com/us/app/fostex-tm-sound-support/id1480797748

Current version of the app does 3 things :

1) display battery life
2) allows ambient sounds in (called Landscape mode, and slider on how much to allow in)
3) firmware updates the TM2 (to v2.90 as of current date of this post)

Apparently the next version of the app will have an equalizer.

Android app due late Oct ‘19.


----------



## Mouseman

I


d3myz said:


> I'd give the B530's a shot. I really like mine and it's been about a week since i've used them, so I could be wrong about the soundstage.


I found the B530s to have a wider soundstage than the Mpows, which are still not bad. I think they dig a little lower, as well, but maybe they're just getting a better seal. The B530s fit really well in my ears compared to most of my other TWS sets. For $35 as stated above, I wouldn't think twice about ordering.


----------



## HiFlight

mattedialdoc said:


> I love the Bomakers. Checks most boxes . And they were $31 so I mean come on!


+1 on the Bomaker!


----------



## HiFlight

Some interesting info regarding the Jabra 75t:
MSRP for pre-orders: $199
10%  special discount via email: $179.00
$179.00 is will be regular price following the 10% promotion.
So much for early pre-order discounts!

I cancelled my pre-order and will wait and see if any Black Friday deals show up.  

While some additional promotional discounts have shown up, they were not from Jabra.
This info via phone conversation with Jabra customer service.


----------



## Ocelitgol

AnakChan said:


> For those who do use the Fostex TM2, it seems Fostex has finally released the app for it for iOS :-
> 
> https://apps.apple.com/us/app/fostex-tm-sound-support/id1480797748
> 
> Uncertain if they'll release an Android app for it or not.



is there a changelog for the firmware update?


----------



## AnakChan

stormers said:


> is there a changelog for the firmware update?


Not that I can find. BTW, I updated my post as to what the current version of the app does.


----------



## hifi80sman

clerkpalmer said:


> It's going to be less than the sony for sure which means it's a really slight effect. It sounds more like what Amazon is doing and less like true Anc.
> 
> Regarding AAC, that's troubling if they dont support it.
> 
> I'm going with the GO.


I believe the original did not advertise AAC, but it does support it. I suspect the same here, but I'm not sure what the benefit is of marketing aptX and SBC (uh, duh, of course it supports SBC) vs. aptX and AAC.  Just seems to be a marketing oversight.

Interestingly, I've had the displeasure of working with marketing folks, as they are typically not experts at what they're trying to market and full-on millennial hipsters.


----------



## hifi80sman

clerkpalmer said:


> Looks like at least in the US the launch is limited to m and d direct and best buy starting Sunday. I imagine some brief period of exclusivity with best buy before Amazon etc.


Did you see the listing pop back up on Best Buy?  I haven't seen it yet.


----------



## Ocelitgol

AnakChan said:


> Not that I can find. BTW, I updated my post as to what the current version of the app does.


thank you.

Btw, have you ever thought about disassembling the charging cradle? From my unit, it looks possible to separate the case and pull out the charging pins. Maybe there's some way to make a smaller case for it


----------



## clerkpalmer

hifi80sman said:


> Did you see the listing pop back up on Best Buy?  I haven't seen it yet.


Yes they are up on best buy but in limited colors. I believe the verge or one of the tech sites said available at best buy starting 10/21.  Looks like the white mw07 plus and the black go are the only ones showing now at best buy.


----------



## AnakChan

stormers said:


> thank you.
> 
> Btw, have you ever thought about disassembling the charging cradle? From my unit, it looks possible to separate the case and pull out the charging pins. Maybe there's some way to make a smaller case for it


Nope. The thought didn’t even occur to me. However I use the TM2 with my FifEar Titans which are pretty large customs so I do end up using that giant cavity in the case.


----------



## TK33

hifi80sman said:


> Did you see the listing pop back up on Best Buy?  I haven't seen it yet.


The white one popped up a few days ago but shows as sold out for me  The black MW07GO is available for order on Best Buy so I am guessing the others will follow soon.


----------



## n20nine

Must say the MW07 Plus is looks exciting. Currently have the Sennheiser MTW. Like the sound but long usage with it causes some discomfort. Battery life kinda sucks and if you dont manually turn them off from the app, they drain out your case battery. Hoping one of you guys can do a review esp if you have the MTW; once you get your unit.

The other earphone I was considering was the Bowers & Wilkins PI3. I know they're not true wireless but always loved the B&W sound and just can't stand case battery dying down.


----------



## d3myz

Anyone see this Anbes Clone?


----------



## wizll

d3myz said:


> I hear the blips, but not any hum or white noise.



here's what soundcore support said regarding the background white noise:

Firstly, please note the higher sensitivity of the driver is, the richer the sound details are. And the background noise is more obvious compared to those earbuds with less sensitive drivers. Every ear is unique and different. Some feel it strong and some could not recognize it. We've worked out this issue and will have the new version (less background noise) ready in about 4 weeks.


----------



## Caipirina

Coming back to the ‘mysterious’ Whizzer OT1 ... they now call it a Pre-Sale and 56% off !!! At 35$ this looks interesting giving cool looks and if specs are true (ANC, hybrid, type C)

can someone PLEASE find out a bit more? My Google-Fu is weak on this one ...

 

wait, what? No control button?  that would be a first. And kinda cool! None of my IEMs have silly buttons. Like a real ‘just music’ TWS.


----------



## cwill

d3myz said:


> Anyone see this Anbes Clone?


If those sound the same they'd be worth it for that beastly battery alone. With daily use I'd only have to charge every other month!


----------



## Caipirina

Putshoesonthatmonster said:


> First review of the spunky beats, I have seen. Captions in English too. I would take it with a pinch of salt, lots of Tronsmart reviews in his playlist.
> 
> However i thought I would post, personally I hate the blinking lights




somehow they are now down at 21$


----------



## r3vengee2

I want to purchase an IEM but I also am not too fond of having lots of wires, and needing a dongle since I have an iPhone. I saw the release news for Noble's Falcon TWS and was wondering what is everyone's thoughts on it? If it's a good purchase I might bite the bullet and place an order, reshipping it from JP to US


----------



## LordToneeus

Caipirina said:


> Coming back to the ‘mysterious’ Whizzer OT1 ... they now call it a Pre-Sale and 56% off !!! At 35$ this looks interesting giving cool looks and if specs are true (ANC, hybrid, type C)
> 
> can someone PLEASE find out a bit more? My Google-Fu is weak on this one ...
> 
> ...



Nope.  I'm not putting anything in my ear that says "On the Road" "Opera Factory".


----------



## clerkpalmer

BobJS said:


> I've put more head-time on my Anker Soundcore Liberty 2 Pro, and I'm really enjoying the sound quality.  I have no hiss.  I confess, when I first put them on I was underwhelmed with the sound.  Wasn't a fan of most of the EQs the app provided.  I must have gotten lucky with the personalized or so-called HearID profile it made for me.



So my personal profile is EXACTLY the same is yours ....

So, initial impressions are positive. Sound quality is very nice. Like I'm pretty floored. Deep bass but it's not bleeding into the mids. Nice crisp highs. Dynamic and punchy.  Up there with the best tw I've heard.

But ... the hiss is not acceptable. In fact it's awful. It's worse than the bt20. Its hiss plus static. So I guess ill contact support and find what they intend to do about it.


----------



## IamJon

Should have my L2Pro tomorrow. 

Someone got a support response over on the soundcore site regarding background noise:
"Firstly, please note the higher sensitivity of the driver is, the richer the sound details are. And the background noise is more obvious compared to those earbuds with less sensitive drivers. Every ear is unique and different. Some feel it strong and some could not recognize it. We’ve worked out this issue and will have the new version (less background noise) ready in about 4 weeks."

Makes sense that due to the BA high sensitivity it picks up the amp noise floor more. Not much room for custom amp setups in TWS so guess this likely is an issue for all BA TWS designs.


----------



## rhsauer

hifi80sman said:


> I believe the original did not advertise AAC, but it does support it. I suspect the same here, but I'm not sure what the benefit is of marketing aptX and SBC (uh, duh, of course it supports SBC) vs. aptX and AAC.  Just seems to be a marketing oversight.
> 
> Interestingly, I've had the displeasure of working with marketing folks, as they are typically not experts at what they're trying to market and full-on millennial hipsters.



I confirmed with tech support that the MW07+ does have AAC.  I think the fact that they don’t advertise it might be a licensing issue.  Will be able to re-confirm AAC as soon as mine arrive


----------



## clerkpalmer

IamJon said:


> Should have my L2Pro tomorrow.
> 
> Someone got a support response over on the soundcore site regarding background noise:
> "Firstly, please note the higher sensitivity of the driver is, the richer the sound details are. And the background noise is more obvious compared to those earbuds with less sensitive drivers. Every ear is unique and different. Some feel it strong and some could not recognize it. We’ve worked out this issue and will have the new version (less background noise) ready in about 4 weeks."
> ...



I cannot comprehend how someone could "not recognize it".  I'm 45 with tinnitus and the hiss and static is very evident.  They can try to pass it along as a byproduct of amping and sensitivity but I have plenty of TW headsets with much lower noise floors.  I don't expect a $99 product to have audiophile quality, but the hiss goes beyond what I think most will find reasonable.


----------



## hifi80sman

clerkpalmer said:


> Yes they are up on best buy but in limited colors. I believe the verge or one of the tech sites said available at best buy starting 10/21.  Looks like the white mw07 plus and the black go are the only ones showing now at best buy.


Yep, see it now.  They must have been browsing this thread and realized they didn't update the their website!


----------



## mattedialdoc

IamJon said:


> Should have my L2Pro tomorrow.
> 
> Someone got a support response over on the soundcore site regarding background noise:
> "Firstly, please note the higher sensitivity of the driver is, the richer the sound details are. And the background noise is more obvious compared to those earbuds with less sensitive drivers. Every ear is unique and different. Some feel it strong and some could not recognize it. We’ve worked out this issue and will have the new version (less background noise) ready in about 4 weeks."
> ...



Ok, but how do those that have the “hissing” version get a new non-hissing version?


----------



## hifi80sman

clerkpalmer said:


> I cannot comprehend how someone could "not recognize it".  I'm 45 with tinnitus and the hiss and static is very evident.  They can try to pass it along as a byproduct of amping and sensitivity but I have plenty of TW headsets with much lower noise floors.  I don't expect a $99 product to have audiophile quality, but the hiss goes beyond what I think most will find reasonable.


I don't see why people feel the need to make silly excuses, especially when you're saying the issue is _*really *_because it's super-duper high quality.  Come on.  Just say you plan to release a firmware update to fix it.


----------



## hifi80sman

mattedialdoc said:


> Ok, but how do those that have the “hissing” version get a new non-hissing version?


I think they are all likely the same, it's just some people can hear the frequency the hiss derives from better than others.  Looks like purely a firmware fix, not a hardware issue.


----------



## d3myz

wizll said:


> here's what soundcore support said regarding the background white noise:
> 
> Firstly, please note the higher sensitivity of the driver is, the richer the sound details are. And the background noise is more obvious compared to those earbuds with less sensitive drivers. Every ear is unique and different. Some feel it strong and some could not recognize it. We've worked out this issue and will have the new version (less background noise) ready in about 4 weeks.


Well in that case, I guess I should probably exchange mine, just in case.


----------



## d3myz

clerkpalmer said:


> I cannot comprehend how someone could "not recognize it".  I'm 45 with tinnitus and the hiss and static is very evident.  They can try to pass it along as a byproduct of amping and sensitivity but I have plenty of TW headsets with much lower noise floors.  I don't expect a $99 product to have audiophile quality, but the hiss goes beyond what I think most will find reasonable.


Good Point. I'm 41 with tinnitus and I don't hear any hiss or static during playback. Maybe I just got a good batch?


----------



## d3myz

cwill said:


> If those sound the same they'd be worth it for that beastly battery alone. With daily use I'd only have to charge every other month!


Yea, man, 3500 mah battery, yes please!


----------



## webvan

Aren't you thinking of the RHA that supported AAC and they didn't even know about it ?

If the MW07 Plus are ysing


Grayson73 said:


> Thanks.  Anbes/SSK is my favorite also, because I do prioritize a wide soundstage.  I wonder what would have an equal or wider soundstage but be an upgrade.



So did you pull the trigger on the B530 ? I was also looking at the Bomaker but the "brightness"/"harshness" I've now read about here and heard on YT reviews will make me give them a miss.


----------



## clerkpalmer

hifi80sman said:


> I think they are all likely the same, it's just some people can hear the frequency the hiss derives from better than others.  Looks like purely a firmware fix, not a hardware issue.


Not sure its firmware. Sounds like hardware.  Choices are to return for a refund or wait for the new and improved versions and do a warranty exchange.


----------



## wizll

clerkpalmer said:


> Not sure its firmware. Sounds like hardware.  Choices are to return for a refund or wait for the new and improved versions and do a warranty exchange.



correct. i pasted that support reply here and on the soundcore forums, and missed pasting the part where the support rep said I can ask for an exchange when the improved version is available.


----------



## Luchyres

Very excited - my MW07 Plus just shipped apparently... says it will be here in 3-5 days if the email is to be trusted!

 (I'll be gone,sadly, in cold Park City, Utah.


----------



## d3myz

Luchyres said:


> Very excited - my MW07 Plus just shipped apparently... says it will be here in 3-5 days if the email is to be trusted!
> 
> (I'll be gone,sadly, in cold Park City, Utah.


I'm down in the valley, bro! It's not that cold yet.


----------



## rhsauer

Those of you that have the Soundcore Liberty 2 Pro, can you please let me know what firmware your device is on? (You can find the current firmware in the app.) I’m on 1.09, and it’s not updating.


----------



## chinmie

IamJon said:


> Should have my L2Pro tomorrow.
> 
> Someone got a support response over on the soundcore site regarding background noise:
> "Firstly, please note the higher sensitivity of the driver is, the richer the sound details are. And the background noise is more obvious compared to those earbuds with less sensitive drivers. Every ear is unique and different. Some feel it strong and some could not recognize it. We’ve worked out this issue and will have the new version (less background noise) ready in about 4 weeks."
> ...



that's is a pretty weak defense from them. i have earin M2 which is a single knowles BA, and also tried the Mifo BA, and some multi BA/Hybrid IEM paired with BT20s that don't have noticable hiss. haven't heard reports about the KZ TWS making hiss noise too. 

so unless all of their testing team can't hear past 7 KHz, they should have noticed that. maybe they did, and just let it slide, to see if no one noticed


----------



## clerkpalmer

chinmie said:


> that's is a pretty weak defense from them. i have earin M2 which is a single knowles BA, and also tried the Mifo BA, and some multi BA/Hybrid IEM paired with BT20s that don't have noticable hiss. haven't heard reports about the KZ TWS making hiss noise too.
> 
> so unless all of their testing team can't hear past 7 KHz, they should have noticed that. maybe they did, and just let it slide, to see if no one noticed



I'm still at a loss for how some people can't hear it.  There must be some units that dont have it.  It's a weak defense but at least they seem to be owning up to it.  I'm sure they made the calculated decision just allow exchanges for those who were bothered by it.  Audeze went through a similar issue with the mobius.  And mw07 has some hiss too.  The anker is the worst I've heard to date.  Honestly it's too bad because they are a home run at 99 bucks.  Did any reviews mention it?


----------



## chinmie

clerkpalmer said:


> I'm still at a loss for how some people can't hear it.  There must be some units that dont have it.  It's a weak defense but at least they seem to be owning up to it.  I'm sure they made the calculated decision just allow exchanges for those who were bothered by it.  Audeze went through a similar issue with the mobius.  And mw07 has some hiss too.  The anker is the worst I've heard to date.  Honestly it's too bad because they are a home run at 99 bucks.  Did any reviews mention it?



i also thought that they do know the hiss, but betting to let that batch sold first and hoping no one or minimal number of person would be bothered and demand replacement.


----------



## JonIrenicus (Oct 17, 2019)

Fml

Dear {name},



Thanks for pre-ordering Soundcore Liberty 2 Pro! 



While we are absolutely blown away by the response to Liberty 2 Pro, pre-orders have far exceeded our expectations. Unfortunately, that means that we’re sprinting to catch up and there may be a short delay in shipment. We expect your order to be shipped out from our US warehouse by Oct 30, with shipments taking 3-5 business days. We’ll send you tracking information as soon as we have it.



We’re sorry for the inconvenience, and rest assured we’re working as hard as we can to get things back on track. Should you have any questions, feel free to reply to the email or contact our customer service team via service@soundcore.com



Thanks,

Soundcore Team


----------



## hifi80sman

d3myz said:


> I'm down in the valley, bro! It's not that cold yet.


I love it when people tell us CA boys that it's "not that cold"...man it's cold as Santa's house, bruh!


----------



## hifi80sman

rhsauer said:


> Those of you that have the Soundcore Liberty 2 Pro, can you please let me know what firmware your device is on? (You can find the current firmware in the app.) I’m on 1.09, and it’s not updating.


Same.  No updates yet.


----------



## clerkpalmer

hifi80sman said:


> Same.  No updates yet.


Hifi80sman do yours hiss?


----------



## Slater

TYATYA said:


> I love samsung phones but hate its sound never approach ip6 (one of best sq Iphone)



I agree. That’s why I have been in no rush to get rid of my iPhone SE. Same great sound as the 6.


----------



## hifi80sman

clerkpalmer said:


> Hifi80sman do yours hiss?


Yep, sure do.


----------



## Slater

nerdspot said:


> Google just teased their TWS: https://store.google.com/product/pixel_buds
> 
> Due for a Spring 2020 release and I believe the expected pricing is close to $180 in the US.



Realtime translations? That’s really cool if it works. That’s the sort of things that used to be relegated to Star Trek!


----------



## clerkpalmer

hifi80sman said:


> Yep, sure do.


Keeping or returning?


----------



## XGUGU

The Nobles Falcon tws+ are up for pre-order. 
https://audio46.com/products/noble-audio-falcon-tws


----------



## Luchyres

d3myz said:


> I'm down in the valley, bro! It's not that cold yet.



I am being a bittttt dramatic - but highs in the mid 40's? c'moooon I'm in LA and about to move to Puerto Rico - I'm not trained for the cold right now lol. 



hifi80sman said:


> I love it when people tell us CA boys that it's "not that cold"...man it's cold as Santa's house, bruh!



What part of CA are you in @hifi80sman ?


----------



## 13gsc13

Does anyone one know which foam tips work with the Momentum true Wireless?


----------



## d3myz

hifi80sman said:


> I love it when people tell us CA boys that it's "not that cold"...man it's cold as Santa's house, bruh!


Just wear a coat, it's not like you're not from Vegas.


----------



## jasaero

SSK Anbes clone update.  Way better sounding than any other $50ish ones I have tried, but am noticing on plane that the isolation isn't as good as the cheap Qcc3020 Qualcomm based ones.  Get way louder than any others I have tried though... So not huge deal if you can deal with more volume.  Pretty impressed with sound quality even with pressure changes from flight ad such though.


----------



## wout0123

AWEI T10C 
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33061026242.html?spm=2114.12010615.8148356.1.436f51f1on0LFP
Feature ： support wireless charging
Style ： Half in ear
True wireless stereo bluetooth 5.0
Control : touch contorl  
Volume contorl in eabuds ： yes （long touch left or right earbuds）
Battery of earbud : 45mAh/pcs
Battery of case : 300mAh
requency Response Range ： 20-2000Hz
Sensitivity: 122±3dB
Built in dual microphone 
Price ： under $25
Sound ： HD stereo sound


----------



## veraideishal (Oct 18, 2019)

AnakChan said:


> For those who do use the Fostex TM2, it seems Fostex has finally released the app for it for iOS :-
> 
> https://apps.apple.com/us/app/fostex-tm-sound-support/id1480797748
> 
> ...



Indeed they have. I actually downloaded it even before it was “officially” released, when it was quietly put on the App Store (though the App Store listing still says that it is a “beta”).



Landscape Mode is somewhat useful, though because the mics are situated on the earhook portion, such that they are pointing backwards when you are wearing it, it makes hearing people in front of you sound muffled. Still much better than the “Ambient Mode” of the Radsone ES100, which was my previous Bluetooth solution, though that’s not saying much at all.

Update on the high-pitched tone: It’s still there, and my theory is that it is due to lousy isolation between the digital and analog stages of the TM2 (see also: most onboard sound cards on laptops). You cannot hear it using the included (dynamic driver) IEMs, so I guess it serves me right for using high-sensitivity BA IEMs on this.

I’ve now isolated it to about 7810Hz. I can even get some weird binaural beat thing going on if I play a tone at that frequency and low volume using a tone generator app.


----------



## vstolpner

Not sure if this was posted, but Gamesky just came out with the review of the KZ E10. Seems like sound quality is great but quality control and connectivity issues abound. Guess the BT20S + KZ ZS10 are a better buy at this point...


----------



## hifi80sman

clerkpalmer said:


> Keeping or returning?


Man, not sure.  I was OK with it with the hope there would be a firmware update, however, after reading everything again, it looks like they're talking about a completely "new version".  I sent them an email to confirm if there is a firmware update to address the issue, but most likely I'll return, lest be stuck with the "old version".


----------



## voicemaster

vstolpner said:


> Not sure if this was posted, but Gamesky just came out with the review of the KZ E10. Seems like sound quality is great but quality control and connectivity issues abound. Guess the BT20S + KZ ZS10 are a better buy at this point...




I have kz bluetooth cable (aptx and the aptx hd) and they are prone to bluetooth bluetooth  loss tho the later is better, but if you cover the bluetooth module with your hand, the connection will be loss. None of this happened with my bt20s.


----------



## hifi80sman

Luchyres said:


> I am being a bittttt dramatic - but highs in the mid 40's? c'moooon I'm in LA and about to move to Puerto Rico - I'm not trained for the cold right now lol.
> 
> 
> 
> What part of CA are you in @hifi80sman ?


Central valley.  High 70s to low 80s.


----------



## HungryPanda

I have the KZ ES10, connection is solid with my Fiio X5 but drops on occasionally with my Shanling M1


----------



## Luchyres

For those of you saddened by the thought that my MW07 Plus would be sitting unused for a week or so, fear not good gentlefolk, ye olde FedEx hath just notified me of a Delivery Date of TOMORROW


----------



## AnakChan (Oct 18, 2019)

veraideishal said:


> Indeed they have. I actually downloaded it even before it was “officially” released, when it was quietly put on the App Store (though the App Store listing still says that it is a “beta”).
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I'm not used to the landscape mode yet. It sounds a little funny and there's a delay of when the external sound is repeated into the earphone. I've also noticed the loss of using the tough slide volume.

Edit: after the TM2 completely discharged and recharged, the volume slide is working fine for me again.

I don't hear the high-pitched tone but maybe my hearing isn't as good as it used to be.


----------



## Chrisdu18e (Oct 18, 2019)

Hello everybody, I try to buy the MWO7 +, I live in France but I can't only choose US or Canada in the shopping cart of the MD website. Do you know another way to buy these TW and send to France ?

Edit : Sorry; I wasn't in the good section of the website. There is a folder Europe. "Oops !"


----------



## Caipirina

vstolpner said:


> Not sure if this was posted, but Gamesky just came out with the review of the KZ E10. Seems like sound quality is great but quality control and connectivity issues abound. Guess the BT20S + KZ ZS10 are a better buy at this point...




BT20 modules are still a bunch bulkier  

I guess I got very lucky (or KZ got very unlucky to supply both, Gamesky and El Jeffe, with faulty units) but I am not having any connection issues (nor volume balance trouble), I agree on the volume itself .. often I find myself at 10% and that's already enough  

I might not THAT over the moon with the SQ as he is (as of right now), mainly because I still want to give it some more time, compare more with other KZ IEMs ... and not fall into the same hype trap  you know, expectation management  ... they DO sound very very nice!  (Also still waiting for my wider bore spinfits)


----------



## chinmie

Caipirina said:


> BT20 modules are still a bunch bulkier
> 
> I guess I got very lucky (or KZ got very unlucky to supply both, Gamesky and El Jeffe, with faulty units) but I am not having any connection issues (nor volume balance trouble), I agree on the volume itself .. often I find myself at 10% and that's already enough
> 
> I might not THAT over the moon with the SQ as he is (as of right now), mainly because I still want to give it some more time, compare more with other KZ IEMs ... and not fall into the same hype trap  you know, expectation management  ... they DO sound very very nice!  (Also still waiting for my wider bore spinfits)



if I'm not mistaken you also have the KZ T1? how do they compare in sound?


----------



## Caipirina

chinmie said:


> if I'm not mistaken you also have the KZ T1? how do they compare in sound?


You are not  

That's another comparison I still need to do ... gut feeling right now is that the bass on the T1 had a bit more punch ... I find myself ever so slightly wishing for just a smidge more bass on the E10 ... just a tiny little     maybe still comes with burn in or once I put C145 spinfits on


----------



## BobJS

hifi80sman said:


> I think they are all likely the same, it's just some people can hear the frequency the hiss derives from better than others.  Looks like purely a firmware fix, not a hardware issue.



I hear NO hiss.  But I'm not really looking for it.  And I'm quite sure there's a chunk of the highest octave of human hearing that I can't hear.  Though I'd expect a hiss to be more like a white noise which would be across the entire audio spectrum, no?


----------



## Caipirina (Oct 18, 2019)

Caipirina said:


> You are not
> 
> That's another comparison I still need to do ... gut feeling right now is that the bass on the T1 had a bit more punch ... I find myself ever so slightly wishing for just a smidge more bass on the E10 ... just a tiny little     maybe still comes with burn in or once I put C145 spinfits on



EDIT: just compared with my fav bass test track .. and nope, the E10 actually have a hair more than the T1  shows how important side by side comparisons are ... also, E10 much wider soundstage, better separation, more sparkly in the upper region ... the T1 still sound pretty awesome and I feel I get a better fit / seal ... the rubber hooks of the E10 make me reach for longer tips to achieve max. penetration and even then it's eh .. not as free at the T1 ...

Eventually need to find some time to compare with BT20 + AS6, ZS10 pro, ZSX, CCA C10, AS16?   let's see

Speaking of great test tracks. can't vouch for the quality of the YT upload, but if you can find that anywhere in HiRes, this is awesome for checking headphones of all kinds:


----------



## bronco1015

clerkpalmer said:


> And right on cue, the Liberty 2 Pros arrived!  This hobby is getting out of hand, Liberty 2 arrived, KZ E10 coming next week, and MW07 Go on order.  I really think I have a problem.


i hear ya. i've been slowly getting caught up on this thread after taking a break for a bit, had the B530s for the review, really like them, sold them. Took a chance on the ofusho F16s, man. They suuuuuuuck! What a crap*y product. Fusho! What's worse is i forgot to get them sent back in time.  Gag gifts i guess, as i bought one for my friend, she didn't love them either. looking at the Shanling BA, was initially thinking the DD version but think i'll get the BA if i do pick them up. plus also looking at the Tevis, as i loved the mpowT5s, but wanted a tad less bass and a mor open sound. Also looking at the plantronics Backbeat Pro 5100, and the MW07 Go. Can someone describe the look of the the Go Vs the OG Mw07? i have no vision at all. Are they shaped the same with the wings as well? or totally different? Hoping they're a bit smaller.


----------



## clerkpalmer

Luchyres said:


> For those of you saddened by the thought that my MW07 Plus would be sitting unused for a week or so, fear not good gentlefolk, ye olde FedEx hath just notified me of a Delivery Date of TOMORROW


Please report on them immediately.  It is your duty.  I am particularly interested in the quality of the ANC.


----------



## clerkpalmer

bronco1015 said:


> i hear ya. i've been slowly getting caught up on this thread after taking a break for a bit, had the B530s for the review, really like them, sold them. Took a chance on the ofusho F16s, man. They suuuuuuuck! What a ****y product. Fusho! What's worse is i forgot to get them sent back in time.  Gag gifts i guess, as i bought one for my friend, she didn't love them either. looking at the Shanling BA, was initially thinking the DD version but think i'll get the BA if i do pick them up. plus also looking at the Tevis, as i loved the mpowT5s, but wanted a tad less bass and a mor open sound. Also looking at the plantronics Backbeat Pro 5100, and the MW07 Go. Can someone describe the look of the the Go Vs the OG Mw07? i have no vision at all. Are they shaped the same with the wings as well? or totally different? Hoping they're a bit smaller.



Same shape. Yes they are a bit smaller and quite a bit lighter.


----------



## chinmie

Caipirina said:


> EDIT: just compared with my fav bass test track .. and nope, the E10 actually have a hair more than the T1  shows how important side by side comparisons are ... also, E10 much wider soundstage, better separation, more sparkly in the upper region ... the T1 still sound pretty awesome and I feel I get a better fit / seal ... the rubber hooks of the E10 make me reach for longer tips to achieve max. penetration and even then it's eh .. not as free at the T1 ...
> 
> Eventually need to find some time to compare with BT20 + AS6, ZS10 pro, ZSX, CCA C10, AS16?   let's see



out of those, i only had listened to the ZS10 Pro to use as a reference. I'll be waiting for the full review


----------



## clerkpalmer

Hmmm.

https://www.theverge.com/2019/10/18/20920505/apple-airpods-pro-noise-cancelling-october-launch-rumor


----------



## Caipirina

clerkpalmer said:


> Hmmm.
> 
> https://www.theverge.com/2019/10/18/20920505/apple-airpods-pro-noise-cancelling-october-launch-rumor




This mockup / render is not really filling me with confidence


----------



## clerkpalmer

Caipirina said:


> This mockup / render is not really filling me with confidence


Even more ridiculous than airpods originally but have nevertheless become cool.  Look like Lego hairdryers.


----------



## bronco1015 (Oct 18, 2019)

hifi80sman said:


> I love it when people tell us CA boys that it's "not that cold"...man it's cold as Santa's house, bruh!


lol. last weekend was cold no doubt, and snow in the forcast for Sunday. So theres That. Back on topic, What were your impressions of the Backbeat pro5100? any comparisons or similarities to any of the following. Senn MTW, PSb m4u Tw1, OG Anbes359, MW07, jabra Elite 65T, Tranya b530, QCY T1C, Mpow T5 and just in case they sound next level bad, the Meeaudio X10 or Ofusho F16. lol. Doubt they sound that terrible haha.


----------



## bronco1015

clerkpalmer said:


> Same shape. Yes they are a bit smaller and quite a bit lighter.


Awesome thank you. Think i'm gonna pick them up then.


----------



## tomscy2000

> We wanted to say ‘Thank you’ for your patience while we make the NuraLoop perfect for you. Quality takes time, and we appreciate you waiting to get the best possible version of the NuraLoop. The original design for the NuraLoop used a new concept in earphone design. It comprised a flexible printed circuit board through the cable, a world-first for earphones — but it didn't meet our exacting standards during reliability testing. So our team worked day and night to solve the problem. Our solution has just passed the 20,000 bend-cycles test — a new durable cable replaces the braided design, and the NuraLoop now feels more a part of our family of products.




​


----------



## howdy

After a few hours of use with the power beats pro I think they are a keeper. They connect faster than anything I have so far. As for range the Sony still hold that by far. As for sound, the  Sony and Sennheiser are quite a bit better. The PBP have a smooth sound with great bass and they're soundstage to me seems wider than what I have read. I should mention that I have Spinfits on (just like Frank's Red Hot saying, I put that sh@t on everything). 
My biggest plus for keeping these are how secured they are on my head. They are not going anywhere and they are so light you forgot that they are even on. Button are easy to push, just put your finger on the button and barely press and it will do what you need.


----------



## webvan (Oct 18, 2019)

clerkpalmer said:


> Please report on them immediately.  It is your duty.  I am particularly interested in the quality of the ANC.


It's really poor apparently -> https://appleinsider.com/articles/1...-the-best-true-wireless-headphones-but-better

"They also are used for Feedforward Active Noise-Cancellation to help reduce background noise. In our testing, we wouldn't say they are an afterthought, but they certainly aren't impressive. We could tell when it was active and it did have an impact, but there are always going to be limitations to feedforward ANC. Feedforward ANC relies on microphones outside the earpiece so it can't hear what you hear, nor adjust to the audio on the fly. To ensure it doesn't make your audio sound bad or in rare cases make the background noise louder, the ANC is quite reserved."

The QC20 have mics inside for sure (Feedback mode), not sure if the Sony XM3 or Libratone have that too.
EDIT - after reading up I found they both have FF and Feedback ANC.

@bronco1015 - there comparison pictures of the MW07PLUS (same size as orginal) and the Go here https://appleinsider.com/articles/1...ynamic-mw07-go-bring-premium-audio-to-the-gym


----------



## Caipirina

howdy said:


> (just like Frank's Red Hot saying, I put that sh@t on everything)..



And they fit the case? I am tempted to maybe get them for xmas  something special ... really like them the 15 minutes I had with them


----------



## 100Pipers

Long time small ears lurker, coming out of shadows. Just got the Ayake 04 (mifo 04) today. They are really small. *Does *anyone have them or the Shanling MTW and the Mifo 05? Are they the same size? cos now thinking whether to get the O5 as well.


----------



## CocaCola15

Another wallet-opening announcement?
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/int...-the-tux-5-oh-and-prestige-universals.917228/


----------



## howdy

Caipirina said:


> And they fit the case? I am tempted to maybe get them for xmas  something special ... really like them the 15 minutes I had with them


Yep. No problem.


----------



## IamJon (Oct 18, 2019)

Finally got my Liberty Pro 2.

Build seems great and lovely case, packaging etc. Fit is comfortable although they do stick out of my ears a bit further than I was expecting. Sound seems impressive for TWS although a tad bass heavy (setting eq to flat is better). Could do with a custom eq option in the app, hopefully they will add in a update. Found the physical buttons pretty good, don't really get on with touch controls I have tried.

Unfortunately the background hiss is present. Sounds fine with loud music but at low volumes or in audio books it is very noticeable. I can hear a slight hiss on my old RHA ma650 wireless but it's so faint I only notice if looking for it, but on the L2Pro it's much more present. Probably similar level of hiss to my zs10 pro + kz aptx hd adaptor combo, not had a chance to do a proper comparison yet. With all 3 the hiss is only present when receiving audio and doesn't vary with volume, most noticeable if listening to track with long silent intro, audio books etc.

Not convinced this is just a bad unit, just sounds like noise floor from the amp is coming through louder than typical bluetooth headphones. I assume in these devices the amp always runs 100% and volume is controlled in pre-amp DAC stage, hence hiss volume is not effected by volume control. Guess the DAC / Amp setup is pretty much the same across all the Anker Liberty 2 range but could be the BA in the pro's picks up the noise more...

Could live with them given that at higher volumes music does sound great, but will probably exchange if they do fix it in a revised version without compromising anything else. Given the hype and price point the hiss is a disappointment. Probably not any worse than my kz aptx hd adaptor but that only cost $18.

I'm now totally sold on the freedom of true wireless, never really got on with wires or bulky over ear headphones. Convinced that "prefect" set is possible, for me the L2Pro is really close but the hiss lets it down.


----------



## Caipirina

100Pipers said:


> Long time small ears lurker, coming out of shadows. Just got the Ayake 04 (mifo 04) today. They are really small. *Does *anyone have them or the Shanling MTW and the Mifo 05? Are they the same size? cos now thinking whether to get the O5 as well.



Can't say I've ever seen those 04 before, the case looks identical to the Shanling. 
I love my Mifo 05 BA and can very much recommend them. 

I think @vstolpner has both, maybe he can say more, I know he is in love with the Shanling


----------



## Caipirina

clerkpalmer said:


> Even more ridiculous than airpods originally but have nevertheless become cool.  Look like Lego hairdryers.



OMG, I missed that little detail in the article that claims they will clock in at 259USD !!!


----------



## vstolpner

100Pipers said:


> Long time small ears lurker, coming out of shadows. Just got the Ayake 04 (mifo 04) today. They are really small. *Does *anyone have them or the Shanling MTW and the Mifo 05? Are they the same size? cos now thinking whether to get the O5 as well.





Caipirina said:


> Can't say I've ever seen those 04 before, the case looks identical to the Shanling.
> I love my Mifo 05 BA and can very much recommend them.
> 
> I think @vstolpner has both, maybe he can say more, I know he is in love with the Shanling




Lol I wouldn't say that I'm in love with them... But I really do enjoy their sound 

The earphones of the Shanling MTW100 and the mifo O5 are identical in size. The cases are very different though and my preference is for the Shanling case. I don't think it makes sense to have both BA models as their sound is quite similar, though IMO the sound from the Shanling's is superior (see more details in my review).

I'm not sure about the O4, but the MTW100 has audio passthrough mode which is great.


----------



## Caipirina

vstolpner said:


> Lol I wouldn't say that I'm in love with them... But I really do enjoy their sound
> 
> The earphones of the Shanling MTW100 and the mifo O5 are identical in size. The cases are very different though and my preference is for the Shanling case. I don't think it makes sense to have both BA models as their sound is quite similar, though IMO the sound from the Shanling's is superior (see more details in my review).
> 
> I'm not sure about the O4, but the MTW100 has audio passthrough mode which is great.



According to amazon.uk they have ambient mode ... One could suspect these are rebranded Shanling DDs?


----------



## veraideishal (Oct 18, 2019)

IamJon said:


> Guess the DAC / Amp setup is pretty much the same across all the Anker Liberty 2 range but could be the BA in the pro's picks up the noise more...



Well, the overwhelming majority of Bluetooth earphones/headphones/receivers use the same few CSR/Qualcomm chips inside them. For true wireless earphones especially, that means that you’re stuck with the DAC and amp that Qualcomm baked into the chip, since you’re constrained by size, weight and power (headphones and receivers have more space to add their own DACs and amps). The only true wireless brands that buck the trend are Apple and Sony, who have the resources to develop their own Bluetooth audio chips.


----------



## vstolpner

Caipirina said:


> According to amazon.uk they have ambient mode ... One could suspect these are rebranded Shanling DDs?


I don't believe they're rebranded. I think they're using the same shell, but the internals are different. Shanling was taking about how they were choosing the different drivers, tuning them, and figuring out the touch controls.


----------



## Darkestred

CocaCola15 said:


> Another wallet-opening announcement?
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/int...-the-tux-5-oh-and-prestige-universals.917228/


I bit the bullet.  I'm sure they will be good and if they are they will complete my TWS journey.  I have too (2) many TWS solutions.


----------



## AtariPrime

The Urbanista Athens is finally launching.  Pre-Orders start early next week with shipments going live around a week later.

A few basic specs:
- IP67
- 8 hours battery life
- 24 more in the case
- Bluetooth 5.0
- 3020 chipset
- USB-C
- 6 mm driver
- 1 hour to charge
- Range = 40 ft.+
- Codecs: HSP, HFP, A2DP, AVRCP, APTX

Overall, they are a bit larger than I hoped they would be but, the smaller options are the Libratone Track+, 75t, Galaxy Buds, and Pixel Buds, none of which get very good battery life, sound, or are otherwise not out yet.

See below for more info:

https://www.urbanista.com/us/athens


----------



## hifi80sman (Oct 18, 2019)

bronco1015 said:


> lol. last weekend was cold no doubt, and snow in the forcast for Sunday. So theres That. Back on topic, What were your impressions of the Backbeat pro5100? any comparisons or similarities to any of the following. Senn MTW, PSb m4u Tw1, OG Anbes359, MW07, jabra Elite 65T, Tranya b530, QCY T1C, Mpow T5 and just in case they sound next level bad, the Meeaudio X10 or Ofusho F16. lol. Doubt they sound that terrible haha.


I like the BackBeat Pro 5100.  The only issue I really had was the price.  I thought it had EQ and Open Mic/Ambient Mode because the listing photo on Amazon showed those as app features, but I did not see those options when I downloaded the app.  I emailed Plantronics support and they confirmed that the 3200 supports it, but not the 5100.  So even though the sound was good (nice deep bass, splash of sparkle, "clean" mids) and the call quality was great, I felt $169 was just too high.  I don't mind paying for something, but I want to feel like I'm getting a good deal.  Also, case has Micro USB and no wireless charging.  I was surprised how much I appreciate wireless charging, as there are times I forget to plug something in to charge!  Placing something on a wireless charger is almost a natural human reaction!

I would say in terms of sound, the Plantronics 5100 is the typical Plantronics Sound signature: deep, extenuated low bass, slightly pulled back mids to make them "clean", and a little added push to the treble to give it some sparkle.  If you've listened to anything in the BackBeat Pro series, they are very much along the same lines.  The MTW is warmer and a little more "richness" overall, while the MW07 has a similar (not same) signature as the Plantronics, but handles all the frequencies with a little more precision.  Never been a fan of the 65t, and although they are good, it's about as exciting as a sweater for Christmas.


----------



## d3myz

Luchyres said:


> For those of you saddened by the thought that my MW07 Plus would be sitting unused for a week or so, fear not good gentlefolk, ye olde FedEx hath just notified me of a Delivery Date of TOMORROW


Oh good, I was so worried. LOL.


----------



## webvan

Caipirina said:


> According to amazon.uk they have ambient mode ... One could suspect these are rebranded Shanling DDs?


Nice find, there isn't much info about the Mifo O4 but in the YT videos I've found I can't see a mention of "ambient mode" so could these Ayakes indeed by Shanlings in hiding ?


----------



## d3myz (Oct 18, 2019)

Caipirina said:


> This mockup / render is not really filling me with confidence


How in the cold hell is that supposed to fit in anyones ear?


----------



## d3myz

Pulled the trigger on the new MPOW M20 thanks for enabling me @hifi80sman, They should be here Today. i'll have my impressions up this weekend.


----------



## geardoc

Apologies if this has been answered already:   Compare, the top end True Wireless (say, Master and Dynamic MW07)  to an IEM with bluetooth adapter(say SE846 with BT2 adapter).    Does the IEM audio quality suffer from the bluetooth connection such that its quality is equal to the MW07?


----------



## CocaCola15

Darkestred said:


> I bit the bullet.  I'm sure they will be good and if they are they will complete my TWS journey.  I have too (2) many TWS solutions.


Hard to resist. There really is an end to this particular journey? Fooled me, haha.


----------



## webvan

webvan said:


> Nice find, there isn't much info about the Mifo O4 but in the YT videos I've found I can't see a mention of "ambient mode" so could these Ayakes indeed by Shanlings in hiding ?



Actually this video (at least its title and there is a demo too with a 2 second press) says there is an ambient mode on the Mifo O4 :


----------



## chinmie

geardoc said:


> Apologies if this has been answered already:   Compare, the top end True Wireless (say, Master and Dynamic MW07)  to an IEM with bluetooth adapter(say SE846 with BT2 adapter).    Does the IEM audio quality suffer from the bluetooth connection such that its quality is equal to the MW07?



the changes in sound is like comparing between plugging an IEM to a dedicated DAP vs to a phone: meaning it is minimal (if any), will only be noticable when comparing it critically side by side, and can easily fixed with slight EQ tweak. so an SE846 won't change too much in sound with BT

while the notion that a pure TWS will always has lower sound quality than their wired counterparts for me personally is not true. they can compete to their wired counterparts in the similar price bracket.

so if you take the MW07, for example, it would be a contender in sound to some wired IEMs in it's price. it might not be the best in that price range, but it would not certainly the worst either.


----------



## Blueshound24

Luchyres said:


> For those of you saddened by the thought that my MW07 Plus would be sitting unused for a week or so, fear not good gentlefolk, ye olde FedEx hath just notified me of a Delivery Date of TOMORROW




Did you order directly from M&D?


----------



## Bizill

vstolpner said:


> Can't comment on the KZ T1, but just wanted to say that the Shanling MTW100 BA is superior to the mifo O5 Professional. The Shanling has better bass response, more pocketable case, and audio passthrough to say the least. I do a more thorough comparison in my review (see signature)



How does the "pass-through" work on these units?  Is it just a hole, or is there electronic "relaying" of the sound passed on from an internal microphone and into your ear?


----------



## bronco1015

hifi80sman said:


> I like the BackBeat Pro 5100.  The only issue I really had was the price.  I thought it had EQ and Open Mic/Ambient Mode because the listing photo on Amazon showed those as app features, but I did not see those options when I downloaded the app.  I emailed Plantronics support and they confirmed that the 3200 supports it, but not the 5100.  So even though the sound was good (nice deep bass, splash of sparkle, "clean" mids) and the call quality was great, I felt $169 was just too high.  I don't mind paying for something, but I want to feel like I'm getting a good deal.  Also, case has Micro USB and no wireless charging.  I was surprised how much I appreciate wireless charging, as there are times I forget to plug something in to charge!  Placing something on a wireless charger is almost a natural human reaction!
> 
> I would say in terms of sound, the Plantronics 5100 is the typical Plantronics Sound signature: deep, extenuated low bass, slightly pulled back mids to make them "clean", and a little added push to the treble to give it some sparkle.  If you've listened to anything in the BackBeat Pro series, they are very much along the same lines.  The MTW is warmer and a little more "richness" overall, while the MW07 has a similar (not same) signature as the Plantronics, but handles all the frequencies with a little more precision.  Never been a fan of the 65t, and although they are good, it's about as exciting as a sweater for Christmas.


Yeah, just listed all the TWS i'd owned at one time or another except for the Sony WF1000XM3. The jabras...love that analogy haha. Instead of Elite 65T they're just the meh, that's nice thank you. 65T. i've heard the Backbeat Go, have pair of those the 3rd gen, imo your description of the backbeat pro is pretty apt for the go series as well. So i think i'd like them, but that's disapointing. because i also thought they had EQ. That's why i ordered them this morning. They'll be here tomorrow, thank you for 1 day delivery Amazon, it makes impulse purchases so much easier lol. not sure i'm gonna like the sound enough to justify the price though. micro USB is disapointing, but not a deal breaker for me. i use a mini BT keyboard with my phone that charges with it, so not like i have to bust a cord out i wouldn't use otherwise.


----------



## webvan

100Pipers said:


> Long time small ears lurker, coming out of shadows. Just got the Ayake 04 (mifo 04) today. They are really small. *Does *anyone have them or the Shanling MTW and the Mifo 05? Are they the same size? cos now thinking whether to get the O5 as well.



How do you like them ? Bass, soundstage good ? Does the Ambient mode work well ? Thanks !


----------



## Slater

wout0123 said:


> AWEI T10C
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33061026242.html?spm=2114.12010615.8148356.1.436f51f1on0LFP
> Feature ： support wireless charging
> Style ： Half in ear
> ...



No mention of what codecs it supports (AAC, aptX).

BTW, it's microUSB charging, which I know will trigger rage in some of you


----------



## hifi80sman

IamJon said:


> Finally got my Liberty Pro 2.
> 
> Build seems great and lovely case, packaging etc. Fit is comfortable although they do stick out of my ears a bit further than I was expecting. Sound seems impressive for TWS although a tad bass heavy (setting eq to flat is better). Could do with a custom eq option in the app, hopefully they will add in a update. Found the physical buttons pretty good, don't really get on with touch controls I have tried.
> 
> ...


I have the exact same feelings.  Easily one of the better sounding units, but that hisssssss...

Still trying to figure out my next play.  I sent them an email and they did replay and offer to send me a new unit in 4 weeks or so, but then I'd be out of the Amazon return window and if the new version is not any better, I'm pretty much stuck at that point.  I guess I could return and wait...


----------



## hifi80sman

d3myz said:


> Pulled the trigger on the new MPOW M20 thanks for enabling me @hifi80sman, They should be here Today. i'll have my impressions up this weekend.


This weekend?  You mean tonight, right?  

I've been looking at those very intensely, so looking forward to your impressions.


----------



## hifi80sman

Darkestred said:


> I bit the bullet.  I'm sure they will be good and if they are they will complete my TWS journey.  I have too (2) many TWS solutions.


Let us know how deep those suckers penetrate.  Looks like the stems are a bit on the long side.


----------



## Luchyres

Blueshound24 said:


> Did you order directly from M&D?


Yep, as soon as I saw the listing (7AM PST or so).


----------



## vstolpner

Bizill said:


> How does the "pass-through" work on these units?  Is it just a hole, or is there electronic "relaying" of the sound passed on from an internal microphone and into your ear?


It uses the mic. Works really well. More details in my review


----------



## Bizill

vstolpner said:


> It uses the mic. Works really well. More details in my review


And stupid question, but that's whilst music is playing?  Does ambient sound level rise with volume control as does the music?


----------



## vstolpner

Bizill said:


> And stupid question, but that's whilst music is playing?  Does ambient sound level rise with volume control as does the music?



It works either with music or without (possibly even without a Bluetooth connection? Never tried)
If you have music playing, when you turn it on it quiets the music by 10-20% and let's the external sounds pass through using the mic. It has some internal algorithm that adjust the sound level of the outside, and since the music volume is controlled only through the phone, it doesn't seem to adjust the outside volume with the music.


----------



## geoxile

Are the Mavin Air-Xs still a good option for TWS+? Their range and connectivity claims are interesting. Im using a pair of Creative Outlier Golds and the connectivity is awful even though it sounds great to me. The left side drops frequently even in a sparse office when using the right as the master, and the left side as the master is a total staticky, signal dropping mess. I was looking at the new ATH CKS5TW but I guess they're not using a TWS+ chipset, even though the smaller sibling apparently is


----------



## Peddler

geoxile said:


> Are the Mavin Air-Xs still a good option for TWS+? Their range and connectivity claims are interesting. Im using a pair of Creative Outlier Golds and the connectivity is awful even though it sounds great to me. The left side drops frequently even in a sparse office when using the right as the master, and the left side as the master is a total staticky, signal dropping mess. I was looking at the new ATH CKS5TW but I guess they're not using a TWS+ chipset, even though the smaller sibling apparently is



I rate the Mavin Àir-X very highly indeed. They have a wonderful open, wide sound signature, go really loud, offer excellent signal strength and have superb battery life. In fact the only negative issue for me is that the case doesn't feel as solid as, say, the Airpods case.


----------



## geoxile

Peddler said:


> I rate the Mavin Àir-X very highly indeed. They have a wonderful open, wide sound signature, go really loud, offer excellent signal strength and have superb battery life. In fact the only negative issue for me is that the case doesn't feel as solid as, say, the Airpods case.



Thanks for the testimony. How would you describe the sound signature. Flat, bass heavy, V shaped?


----------



## d3myz

hifi80sman said:


> This weekend?  You mean tonight, right?
> 
> I've been looking at those very intensely, so looking forward to your impressions.


Yea. They should be here anytime now.


----------



## Luchyres

AtariPrime said:


> Awolnation - MF
> Flux Pavillion - I Can't Stop
> Blue Foundation - Eyes on Fire (Zeds Dead Remix)
> Blackmill - Let it Be
> ...



Added these to my list in anticipation of the MW07 Plus!



d3myz said:


> Here's an EP I've been listening to lately. It's pretty much Musician's Music, so most of you will probably won't dig it, but the Production and Engineering in this EP is Masterful and the music changes so much it really takes you for a ride. There are very few drum kits that have been recorded this well!
> 
> Wot Gorilla?
> Angel Numbers





hifi80sman said:


> Can't say that's my cup of tea, but as far as using it to test equipment (layering, etc.), I think those are good tracks.  There's a lot (of noise) going on there!



I agree - lots going on to be good test tracks.  I do feel the need to comb through my larger collection to find old testing gems now.


----------



## Bizill

vstolpner said:


> It works either with music or without (possibly even without a Bluetooth connection? Never tried)
> If you have music playing, when you turn it on it quiets the music by 10-20% and let's the external sounds pass through using the mic. It has some internal algorithm that adjust the sound level of the outside, and since the music volume is controlled only through the phone, it doesn't seem to adjust the outside volume with the music.


Thank you kindly.


----------



## HiFlight

geoxile said:


> Are the Mavin Air-Xs still a good option fort  TWS+? Their range and connectivity claims are interesting. Im using a pair of Creative Outlier Golds and the connectivity is awful even though it sounds great to me. The left side drops frequently even in a sparse office when using the right as the master, and the left side as the master is a total staticky, signal dropping mess. I was looking at the new ATH CKS5TW but I guess they're not using a TWS+ chipset, even though the smaller sibling apparently is


I owned both the Creative Outlier (Std. version, not Gold) and the Mavin Air-X.  IMO, there is no comparison, the Mavin blows the Creative out of the water in SQ, connectivity, fit and overall quality.   The Creative was returned but I still own the Mavin.  It is one of my top two favorites, right below my Libratone Track Air+


----------



## webvan

blomman77 said:


> 50% off at Tranya homepage with the code VO6JZFU4


Code still works, after spending some time to listening to my Anbes 359 with the CP360 L I can't find a good reason to get the B530s, unless someone convinces me otherwise ?


----------



## rhsauer

Well, my MD07 Plus arrived.  I haven't had a chance to really put them through their paces yet, but one immediate issue emerged -- they won't connect to my iPhone or Mac other than through SBC.  I have tried every combination of settings on the Mac's Bluetooth Explorer app -- Force Apt-x, AAC on and off, etc. -- and they simply won't connect with a codec other than SBC.  

I have the same problem on the iPhone (verified through Console) -- they just connect via SBC.  (And I confirmed with customer support at the time I ordered them that they are supposed to support AAC, like the MD07s, although it's not advertised.)

The manual doesn't specify if (or how) these can be reset to factory settings, on the chance that a reset will clear up whatever the issue is here.

Very frustrated -- I got these on overnight shipping because I'm traveling on Sunday and hoped to take them with me.  I can almost always hear the difference between SBC and a higher quality codec, so I'm reserving judgment on these earphones until this issue is resolved.

Anyone have any ideas, or know how to reset them?  Help!


----------



## hifi80sman

rhsauer said:


> Well, my MD07 Plus arrived.  I haven't had a chance to really put them through their paces yet, but one immediate issue emerged -- they won't connect to my iPhone or Mac other than through SBC.  I have tried every combination of settings on the Mac's Bluetooth Explorer app -- Force Apt-x, AAC on and off, etc. -- and they simply won't connect with a codec other than SBC.
> 
> I have the same problem on the iPhone (verified through Console) -- they just connect via SBC.  (And I confirmed with customer support at the time I ordered them that they are supposed to support AAC, like the MD07s, although it's not advertised.)
> 
> ...


Do you have an Android device?  If you enable Developer Options, I would see what codec it connects to and see if you can toggle between SBC, AAC, and aptX.  When you toggle, there will be a pause before the music resumes again.  If there is no pause, then it's likely not actually switching.

If they don't work with AAC, man, that's a HUGE oversight or a really bad call.  The old MW07 not only has AAC, but also multipoint, so I can connect to my Android device and stream via aptX, while receiving calls on my main phone (iPhone Xs Max).


----------



## Caipirina

d3myz said:


> How in the cold hell is that supposed to fit in anyones ear?


Apple fan boys & girls will make it fit


----------



## clerkpalmer

How does one test the codec on an iphone?


----------



## CardigdanWalk

clerkpalmer said:


> How does one test the codec on an iphone?



i don’t think you can see. Best I’ve heard is to test a Mac


----------



## hifi80sman

clerkpalmer said:


> How does one test the codec on an iphone?


I don't think you can, unless of course the TWS/Headphones have an app that identifies the codec.  Some headphones have a light that idetifies the codec (i.e. Audio-Technica DSR7BT and DSR9BT).  I've tried but couldn't figure it out on iOS.  Clear as day on Android, which is what I always use to test codecs.


----------



## rhsauer

hifi80sman said:


> I don't think you can, unless of course the TWS/Headphones have an app that identifies the codec.  Some headphones have a light that idetifies the codec (i.e. Audio-Technica DSR7BT and DSR9BT).  I've tried but couldn't figure it out on iOS.  Clear as day on Android, which is what I always use to test codecs.



You can determine the codec that the Bluetooth headphones are using to connect to an iPhone by (1) connecting the iPhone to a Mac with a lightning cable, (2) opening the Console app on the Mac, (3) clicking on the name of your iPhone on the navigation bar on the left in Console, (4) giving the Mac permissions to connect to the iPhone when it asks (by clicking “Trust” and then putting in your PIN), and then (5) filtering the results (in the box at the top right) for “Bluetooth” and “A2DP.”  More detailed instructions are on this board in several place if you search — but that’s the gist.  Once you’ve done all of that, you can clearly see in the Console app what codec the iPhone is connecting with.  It’s a lot easier than it sounds — particularly the second time.

Trust me — they are connecting to both the iPhone and the Mac ONLY via SBC.  Incredibly disappointing — but I guess that’s what I get for being an early adopter.

Does no one know how to factory reset these earphones?  I wrote customer support, but assume I won’t hear from them until Monday at the earliest.


----------



## clerkpalmer

That's what I thought. So how are we sure the iphone isn't doing AAC for the mw07? I believe on a mac the default is sbc unless you change some settings? At least that was my understanding.


----------



## clerkpalmer

rhsauer said:


> You can determine the codec that the Bluetooth headphones are using to connect to an iPhone by (1) connecting the iPhone to a Mac with a lightning cable, (2) opening the Console app on the Mac, (3) clicking on the name of your iPhone on the navigation bar on the left in Console, (4) giving the Mac permissions to connect to the iPhone when it asks (by clicking “Trust” and then putting in your PIN), and then (5) filtering the results (in the box at the top right) for “Bluetooth” and “A2DP.”  More detailed instructions are on this board in several place if you search — but that’s the gist.  Once you’ve done all of that, you can clearly see in the Console app what codec the iPhone is connecting with.  It’s a lot easier than it sounds — particularly the second time.
> 
> Trust me — they are connecting to both the iPhone and the Mac ONLY via SBC.  Incredibly disappointing — but I guess that’s what I get for being an early adopter.
> 
> Does no one know how to factory reset these earphones?  I wrote customer support, but assume I won’t hear from them until Monday at the earliest.


Wow. Cool. Did not know that.


----------



## clerkpalmer

If we can figure out what chipset they are using we should find the answer. I swear I read it in a review but now I cant find it. I dont recall a factory reset on the old mw07.


----------



## rhsauer

clerkpalmer said:


> That's what I thought. So how are we sure the iphone isn't doing AAC for the mw07? I believe on a mac the default is sbc unless you change some settings? At least that was my understanding.



On a Mac, if the earphones can use Apt-x, they will (generally) connect via Apt-x by default.  If you want to use AAC instead of Apt-x, you have to enable AAC through Bluetooth Explorer, which is a program that’s included in xCode, which can be downloaded from the Mac developer site (without registering as a.developer).

You can check the codec being used by holding the option key as you click on the Bluetooth icon in the menu bar and then clicking on the specific earphone..

In the case of my MW07 Plus earphones, they will only connect via SBC, no matter what the settings are.  (And they sound like they are connecting via SBC and not a higher quality codec.). Again, very frustrating.


----------



## Luchyres

Teaser folks - the Fedex guy couldn't get in and didn't call - so I found out I missed the delivery 8 mins after the attempt. 

I made a fool of myself and ran probably 3/4 of a mile to catch up to the truck a few streets away and got that package  MW07 Plus is HERE

Packaging is very nice. the black quartz is beautiful, I'm taking my time with the sound but it's good... gimme some time. 

Going out for the night but here is a teaser image: 






Looks even better in person...

No, those are not my nails (see the LPro2 post), she just has a better phone camera


----------



## clerkpalmer

Well I would agree that dropping AAC would be a major misfire. Seems almost impossible.  I would have to think iPhone users are a major target of a company like M&D.  I thought virtually all newer 5.0 chips do AAC. It's become so obvious a lot of the time it isn't even advertised.


----------



## rhsauer

clerkpalmer said:


> If we can figure out what chipset they are using we should find the answer. I swear I read it in a review but now I cant find it. I dont recall a factory reset on the old mw07.



I assume that if they (purport to) support Apt-x, they are using a Qualcomm chip.  M&D must be pretty confident in their ability to produce a product that works perfectly to not provide the ability to factory reset.  (In this case, that confidence seems to have been misplaced — although, having said that, I have no idea if a reset will help here.)  Either this pair of earphones is defective, or the entire run may need a firmware fix (and there’s no way for the end user to update firmware on these).  Did I mention that this is very frustrating?


----------



## hifi80sman

rhsauer said:


> You can determine the codec that the Bluetooth headphones are using to connect to an iPhone by (1) connecting the iPhone to a Mac with a lightning cable, (2) opening the Console app on the Mac, (3) clicking on the name of your iPhone on the navigation bar on the left in Console, (4) giving the Mac permissions to connect to the iPhone when it asks (by clicking “Trust” and then putting in your PIN), and then (5) filtering the results (in the box at the top right) for “Bluetooth” and “A2DP.” More detailed instructions are on this board in several place if you search — but that’s the gist. Once you’ve done all of that, you can clearly see in the Console app what codec the iPhone is connecting with. It’s a lot easier than it sounds — particularly the second time.


Gotcha.  Yeah, I was hoping there was a way without actually having to go out and buy a Mac.  I did just buy a new computer last month, so time to upgrade?  

Apple "Genius":  "So what brings you in to the Apple Store today?"  

Me:  "Looking for a MacBook."  

Apple "Genius":  "So what are you planning on using it for?  Reports? Gaming?"  

Me:  "Looking up codecs"  

Apple "Genius":  "What's a co-deck?"


----------



## geoxile

HiFlight said:


> I owned both the Creative Outlier (Std. version, not Gold) and the Mavin Air-X.  IMO, there is no comparison, the Mavin blows the Creative out of the water in SQ, connectivity, fit and overall quality.   The Creative was returned but I still own the Mavin.  It is one of my top two favorites, right below my Libratone Track Air+


Good to know. Wish Amazon had the blue version for Prime but white is good enough for me. Coming on Sunday!


----------



## rhsauer

Luchyres said:


> Teaser folks - the Fedex guy couldn't get in and didn't call - so I found out I missed the delivery 8 mins after the attempt.
> 
> I made a fool of myself and ran probably 3/4 of a mile to catch up to the truck a few streets away and got that package  MW07 Plus is HERE
> 
> ...



Can you let us know whether your MW07+‘s are connecting via Apt-x or AAC (or just SBC).  Mine are only connecting with SBC.  Thanks.


----------



## hifi80sman

clerkpalmer said:


> That's what I thought. So how are we sure the iphone isn't doing AAC for the mw07? I believe on a mac the default is sbc unless you change some settings? At least that was my understanding.


The original is definitely using AAC, as I can toggle between SBC, AAC, and aptX on my Galaxy s8.

As far as I know, most, if not all, of the current Qualcomm SoCs support AAC.  Clearly, the manufacturer can enable/disable the feature, but it's highly, highly improbable the SoC doesn't support AAC, it's just a matter of whether it was enabled.


----------



## clerkpalmer

hifi80sman said:


> The original is definitely using AAC, as I can toggle between SBC, AAC, and aptX on my Galaxy s8.
> 
> As far as I know, most, if not all, of the current Qualcomm SoCs support AAC.  Clearly, the manufacturer can enable/disable the feature, but it's highly, highly improbable the SoC doesn't support AAC, it's just a matter of whether it was enabled.


That would be quite the snafu.  Or will it be like the liberty 2 where they happily exchange for the few number of people that actually notice or complain?


----------



## rhsauer

hifi80sman said:


> The original is definitely using AAC, as I can toggle between SBC, AAC, and aptX on my Galaxy s8.
> 
> As far as I know, most, if not all, of the current Qualcomm SoCs support AAC.  Clearly, the manufacturer can enable/disable the feature, but it's highly, highly improbable the SoC doesn't support AAC, it's just a matter of whether it was enabled.



I specifically called support at M&D when I ordered to confirm that these supported AAC — and they confirmed that it did.  So they do support AAC, theoretically — just not in practice, as it turns out ;-(


----------



## clerkpalmer

rhsauer said:


> I specifically called support at M&D when I ordered to confirm that these supported AAC — and they confirmed that it did.  So they do support AAC, theoretically — just not in practice, as it turns out ;-(


I've found their support to be responsive and helpful but not particularly good at the details of the tech.  I think its possible they have no real idea.


----------



## hifi80sman

No pressure @Luchyres, but it's all on you to determine if the MW07 Plus supports AAC/aptX!


----------



## hifi80sman

rhsauer said:


> I specifically called support at M&D when I ordered to confirm that these supported AAC — and they confirmed that it did.  So they do support AAC, theoretically — just not in practice, as it turns out ;-(


Can you get a hold of an Android device?


----------



## Slater

clerkpalmer said:


> How does one test the codec on an iphone?



You can't do it *with only* an iPhone. You *must use* a Mac as well.

This thread (from an actual iOS engineer) explains how to do it (along with some other interesting information): https://www.head-fi.org/threads/how...n-ios-device-and-bluetooth-headphones.835289/


----------



## rhsauer

clerkpalmer said:


> I've found their support to be responsive and helpful but not particularly good at the details of the tech.  I think its possible they have no real idea.



I know what you’re talking about   I asked the question a few different ways, and got the sense that the tech I spoke with at M&D knew what he was talking about.  (He said he’d been using — perhaps testing — the MW07+ for a while.)

The specific problem here is that they’re not connecting via either Apt-x or AAC.  They advertise Apt-x, and I’m not even getting that.


----------



## rhsauer

hifi80sman said:


> Can you get a hold of an Android device?



Not easily — I went all-in on the Apple ecosystem several years ago.  It just made life easier.


----------



## hifi80sman

rhsauer said:


> Not easily — I went all-in on the Apple ecosystem several years ago.  It just made life easier.


Until now.


----------



## BigZ12

rhsauer said:


> I know what you’re talking about   I asked the question a few different ways, and got the sense that the tech I spoke with at M&D knew what he was talking about.  (He said he’d been using — perhaps testing — the MW07+ for a while.)
> 
> The specific problem here is that they’re not connecting via either Apt-x or AAC.  They advertise Apt-x, and I’m not even getting that.


After the release of MacOS Catalina, I don't get AptX with Bluetooth Explorer either. Have tried disabling, then enabling AptX in Terminal as well, but nope... Just SBC and AAC on my Macbook Pro now.


----------



## rhsauer

hifi80sman said:


> Until now.



good point


----------



## rhsauer

BigZ12 said:


> After the release of MacOS Catalina, I don't get AptX with Bluetooth Explorer either. Have tried disabling, then enabling AptX in Terminal as well, but nope... Just SBC and AAC on my Macbook Pro now.



That’s interesting — and I wonder if there is a new version of XCode with a new version of Bluetooth Explorer — I’ll go check.


----------



## BigZ12

rhsauer said:


> That’s interesting — and I wonder if there is a new version of XCode with a new version of Bluetooth Explorer — I’ll go check.


I think I've tried 4-5 versions of Bluetooth Explorer in different Additional Tools for Xcode "X" in Catalina. No AptX...


----------



## rhsauer (Oct 18, 2019)

BigZ12 said:


> I think I've tried 4-5 versions of Bluetooth Explorer in different Additional Tools for Xcode "X" in Catalina. No AptX...



So Apple actually disabled Apt-x support in a years-old computer -- that has a bluetooth chip that has always (previously) supported Apt-x, through an OS "upgrade"?  That's really disappointing.

I have version 4.4.0f4 of Bluetooth Explorer on my iMac -- running Catalina -- and under "Tools/Options" the options to force or disable Apt-x are still there.

Edit:  I just tried to connect another set of earphones that should support Apt-x to the iMac (Syllable S101s) -- and they no longer connect via Apt-x.  Unless I'm missing something, Apple is forcing AAC or SBC -- and I reducing the functionality of a several year old computer.  Amazing.

The implications of all that are that the MW07 might just be missing AAC, which would be a real drag.  I'll return them.


----------



## BigZ12

rhsauer said:


> So Apple actually disabled Apt-x support in a years-old computer -- that has a bluetooth chip that has always (previously) supported Apt-x, through an OS "upgrade"?  That's really disappointing.
> 
> I have version 4.4.0f4 of Bluetooth Explorer on my iMac -- running Catalina -- and under "Tools/Options" the options to force or disable Apt-x are still there.


It's all over the internet. A quick Google search gives a lot different threads about the issue. Seems it's "silently removed" (as one says) in Catalina.


----------



## BigZ12

I have to say it's almost laughable that the MW07 Plus doesn't support AAC. Are they stupid or something?!?


----------



## rhsauer

BigZ12 said:


> I have to say it's almost laughable that the MW07 Plus doesn't support AAC. Are they stupid or something?!?



Could not agree more


----------



## clerkpalmer

If aptx isn't working either it really does seem like a firmware issue but that could be a giant mess for m&d if something got botched.


----------



## rhsauer

clerkpalmer said:


> If aptx isn't working either it really does seem like a firmware issue but that could be a giant mess for m&d if something got botched.



Shockingly, Apple seems to have (silently) removed Apt-x support in the lastest MacOS update (Catalina), which would explain my inability to get them to connect via Apt-x.  Assuming that’s the case, it looks like just AAC is missing.  These earphones looked like a holy grail — so close, but (without AAC) so far ....  Oh well ....


----------



## clerkpalmer

rhsauer said:


> Shockingly, Apple seems to have (silently) removed Apt-x support in the lastest MacOS update (Catalina), which would explain my inability to get them to connect via Apt-x.  Assuming that’s the case, it looks like just AAC is missing.  These earphones looked like a holy grail — so close, but (without AAC) so far ....  Oh well ....


So changing the subject how's the ANC ?


----------



## rhsauer (Oct 18, 2019)

clerkpalmer said:


> So changing the subject how's the ANC ?



I wore them on the subway and the ANC helped.  It’s not like the Sony or Bose ANC — it just somewhat softens external sounds.  Definitely better than not having it.


----------



## rhsauer

On an unrelated note, since I’m now done with the MW07+, I’ve been listening to the Soundcore Liberty 2 Pros for the last hour or so, and I have to say that, even with the “hiss,” these are the best TWEs (and some of the best earphones, period) I have ever heard.   Incredible (melodic) bass, and incredible clarity.  Of course, I have to send these back too because they randomly disconnect during phone calls (and voice memos), and I think there might be a related issue with the microphone quality — but I will definitely get a new (hopefully working) pair.  They sound just that good.


----------



## clerkpalmer

rhsauer said:


> On an unrelated note, since I’m now done with the MW07+, I’ve been listening to the Soundcore Liberty 2 Pros for the last hour or so, and I have to say that, even with the “hiss,” these are the best TWEs (and some of the best earphones, period) I have ever heard.   Incredible (melodic) bass, and incredible clarity.  Of course, I have to send these back too because they randomly disconnect during phone calls (and voice memos), and I think there might be a related issue with the microphone quality — but I will definitely get a new (hopefully working) pair.  They sound just that good.



I like them quite a bit but not sure they beat the mw07. With AAC of course.


----------



## Grayson73 (Oct 18, 2019)

I got a used Anbes 359 on Ebay and just compared them to my SSK using the same spiral dot tips and they are not identical.  The SSK is tuned warmer/darker and has more bass (quantity and punch).  The difference in bass is very noticeable.  I much prefer the SSK, as the Anbes is light in bass for my taste.  The SSK sound more dynamic, energetic, and alive.  However, when I switch from the Anbes to the SSK, the bass can be slightly too much, making them sound less clear.

Both are good though!


----------



## Luchyres

]



rhsauer said:


> I assume that if they (purport to) support Apt-x, they are using a Qualcomm chip.  M&D must be pretty confident in their ability to produce a product that works perfectly
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Luchyres

Sorry @rhsauer not sure what I did with the quote function there. I can confirm functional apt-x.

I'm not sure if I'm successfully forcing AAC but it does appear to work when I select it.

What color did you buy?


----------



## albau

BigZ12 said:


> I have to say it's almost laughable that the MW07 Plus doesn't support AAC. Are they stupid or something?!?


But how do they sound? Or codec name matters more


----------



## Slater

Grayson73 said:


> I got a used Anbes 359 on Ebay and just compared them to my SSK using the same spiral dot tips and they are not identical.  The SSK is tuned warmer/darker and has more bass (quantity and punch).  The difference in bass is very noticeable.  I much prefer the SSK, as the Anbes is light in bass for my taste.  The SSK sound more dynamic, energetic, and alive.  However, when I switch from the Anbes to the SSK, the bass can be slightly too much, making them sound less clear.
> 
> Both are good though!



But others have said theirs sound exactly the same. The difference could be anything from eartips to manufacturing variation.

So who is right?


----------



## Ocelitgol

AnakChan said:


> Nope. The thought didn’t even occur to me. However I use the TM2 with my FifEar Titans which are pretty large customs so I do end up using that giant cavity in the case.



NOW i can confirm, you can take the whole out (destroyed the case) and put everything in a much smaller case. I might need to find a more elegant way to charge them but for now, I'm happy.


----------



## Darkestred

CocaCola15 said:


> Hard to resist. There really is an end to this particular journey? Fooled me, haha.



Whats going to wind up happening is (much like most universals) these will not fit in my ear and i'll have one-eye open looking for the next vendor to create a solution that fits me needs and hopefully my ears.  But for wireless? I just want a nice pair that fit me and sound good.  I don't need much more than that from a TWS.  Now, in a few years, if the tech picks up and they are rivaling the big boys.  It may be time to decide the future.

I hope this doesnt turn into my obsession with flashlights.  Every 3-4 years i get the itch and buy the latest emitter (in neutral white) and then 3 or 4 more shortly after.


----------



## Peddler (Oct 19, 2019)

geoxile said:


> Thanks for the testimony. How would you describe the sound signature. Flat, bass heavy, V shaped?



The Mavin's have a surprisingly wide range (for a bluetooth headphone) and appear to be fairly flat to my ears and don't tend to favour low end to much. The sound signature really reminds me of the Ultimate Ears Triple Fi 10's although perhaps a little more congested when the music gets busy.

I have a fairly embarrassing collection of bluetooth headphones including the Sony WH1000XM2, Apple Airpods, SoundPeats and the BT Transfer from Status and the Mavin's sound easily as good as the Transfer's and definitely more accurate than the others I've mentioned.

I did have problems getting a good fit when I first got them - care need to be taken to ensure you equalise the air pressure in your ears - once you've done this the sound really opens up.

The only couple of issues that I have is that the case could be more solidly made (the case on the Airpods is really well made) and the sound tubes are somewhat fat and don't really work with this party tips because they just slip off too easily.

The Marvin's have effectively stopped me from purchasing the Sony Noise cancelling earbuds - I would be very surprised if the Sony's sound anywhere near as good as the Marvin's.

I hope this helps.


----------



## chbla (Oct 19, 2019)

Hi there, I need experts. I'm confused by all the different threads and offers.

I'm looking for wireless earbuds for commuting that I can quickly use to listen to music or audiobooks if I've got a bit of time.
They should have decent music quality, I like KEF. Main purpose is to be able to quickly use them, no cables, no hassle.
They should also work when I'm commuting with my bike.

What are my options (regardless of budget) and what features do I need? I noticed some have noise cancellation, others can pass through
noise, etc?

Can the Chifi products hold up with the more expensive ones, like the Sony?
Thanks for your help!


----------



## Luchyres

Darkestred said:


> Whats going to wind up happening is (much like most universals) these will not fit in my ear and i'll have one-eye open looking for the next vendor to create a solution that fits me needs and hopefully my ears.  But for wireless? I just want a nice pair that fit me and sound good.  I don't need much more than that from a TWS.  Now, in a few years, if the tech picks up and they are rivaling the big boys.  It may be time to decide the future.
> 
> I hope this doesnt turn into my obsession with flashlights.  Every 3-4 years i get the itch and buy the latest emitter (in neutral white) and then 3 or 4 more shortly after.



I simply must know - what's the best compact flash light with a red led mode? You may have just ignited an itch in another person for the first time..

I'm enjoying the MW07+ sound quality so far. Admittedly more "neutral" than my ideal - want a bit more bass emphasis (but it is quality). I'm treble sensitive - so it gets me on me songs - but nothing a little eq won't fix.

I want a firmware update to make them louder - but it doesn seem like that's possible? I'd gladly trade battery life for 2 more volume notches.

I think that for many of you, given the impression I have of your music preferences - these will be a top notch TWS in SQ (and the go variant)


----------



## hifi80sman

Luchyres said:


> ]


If the music doesn’t pause when toggle to AAC, then it’s probably not really switching to AAC.  Disappointed, because that’s a major turn off.


----------



## Bartig

Does anyone of you have both the Mpow T5/ M5 and the Lypertek Tevi? I’m very interested what the differences are.

Meanwhile, yesterday was a crazy day. Published reviews on the Pamu Slide (avoid), Aukey T16S (too expensive), Edifier TWS1 (very okay) and Earfun Free (quite nice actually). Then arrived home and saw the KZ E10 and Nillkin Go on my doormat.


----------



## AnakChan

stormers said:


> NOW i can confirm, you can take the whole out (destroyed the case) and put everything in a much smaller case. I might need to find a more elegant way to charge them but for now, I'm happy.


Very brave of you! Don't think I'd be doing that to my TM2 cradle anytime soon.


----------



## BigZ12

albau said:


> But how do they sound? Or codec name matters more


Codec name? Noticable better sound with AAC than SBC, and you don't have the noise SBC introduces. 
A BIG miss by M&D leaving out AAC support. For Apple users at least...


----------



## Caipirina

Bartig said:


> Does anyone of you have both the Mpow T5/ M5 and the Lypertek Tevi? I’m very interested what the differences are.
> 
> Meanwhile, yesterday was a crazy day. Published reviews on the Pamu Slide (avoid), Aukey T16S (too expensive), Edifier TWS1 (very okay) and Earfun Free (quite nice actually). Then arrived home and saw the KZ E10 and Nillkin Go on my doormat.



Your life sucks!  

btw, why don't you get those Bonola ANC? I really like 'em, but also really curious how other ears perceive them. Both in sound & ANC I could barely be any happier (and I got them for like 32.59$ ) 

Also hoping that your KZ E10 has no technical issues. Really enjoying mine.


----------



## Caipirina (Oct 19, 2019)

chbla said:


> Can the Chifi products hold up with the more expensive ones, like the Sony?
> Thanks for your help!



 IMHO yes, I have some ChiFi buds that blow my Sony SP700N out of the water ... but then again, this can be very subjective, depends on your preferences, which aspects are important.

Take a look around scarbir.com for a pretty comprehensive look at what's out there right now and what's recommended. The author is @Bartig who is also active here.


----------



## Bartig (Oct 19, 2019)

Caipirina said:


> Your life sucks!
> 
> btw, why don't you get those Bonola ANC? I really like 'em, but also really curious how other ears perceive them. Both in sound & ANC I could barely be any happier (and I got them for like 32.59$ )
> 
> Also hoping that your KZ E10 has no technical issues. Really enjoying mine.


Well, it does distort and drop when walking... and it’s my least comfortable pair of wireless earphones of all 60. But yeah - the sound is very clear and quite good. Only been listening to it for around 15 minutes so far though.


----------



## chinmie

Bartig said:


> of all 60.




that's an even and round number


----------



## Caipirina

Caipirina said:


> IMHO yes, I have some ChiFi buds that blow my Sony SP700N out of the water ... but then again, this can be very subjective, depends on your preferences, which aspects are important.





Bartig said:


> Well, it does distort and drop when walking... and it’s my least comfortable pair of wireless earphones of all 60. But yeah - the sound is very clear and quite good. Only been listening to it for around 15 minutes so far though.



Sorry to hear about drop & distortion ... so far I don't have that, but tropical storms prevented me from doing long walks. As for comfort, I find that I fare better with tips that make the nozzle longer (then they don't fit in case anymore) .. with the supplied short tips, well, they tend to wiggle back out of my ear canal ... 

Unrelated, looking over scarbir again I was reminded of the Anomoibuds Capsule, which were some of my earliest TWS based on your recommendation back then when you published on medium .. and they still rock! Still enjoying the sound and that tiny case form factor.


----------



## Caipirina

chinmie said:


> that's an even and round number



I wouldn't even know how to count mine .. what about doubles / replacements / dead sets / do Bose sleepbuds count?  What about the redmi airdot that are now firmly in wife's clutches?


----------



## cacio

just received my TRANYA B530. out of the box compared with MPOW T5 (from memory, will test it side by side today)

using SBC "HD" (noticeable better than AAC)

- more balanced, nothing feels recessed like on T5 a bit
- plays (deep) bass without overpowering like T
- overall volume is right. Used T5 mostly 50-60% while the B530 60-70%
- sync to video is really well. not aptX LL but definitely better than T5 with aptX.
- so far really comfortable, better than T5
- case is nicer UX wise. much easier to take the buds out. also more pocketable compared to T5

I'll let them burn in for a while, before making final verdict. But so far, I prefer them (with SBC HD!) over the T5 with aptX. just a more natural sound. 

PS: while writing this I'm listening to the B530s and with every minute they open up more and more


----------



## 100Pipers

webvan said:


> Nice find, there isn't much info about the Mifo O4 but in the YT videos I've found I can't see a mention of "ambient mode" so could these Ayakes indeed by Shanlings in hiding ?


I can confirm they do have ambient mode, although it's a very metallic sound. The paperwork in the box is branded Mifo 04.


----------



## 100Pipers

webvan said:


> How do you like them ? Bass, soundstage good ? Does the Ambient mode work well ? Thanks !


Hated them at first listen sou


webvan said:


> How do you like them ? Bass, soundstage good ? Does the Ambient mode work well ? Thanks !


I like them, the got slightly less bass than the mpow t5, soundstage is quite narrow. Ambient not so great sounds metallic (Ambient mode really needs an app so you can lower or increase as the situation demands). Very comfortable hardly feel them after hours of use. No aptx, svc and aac, battery seems to last around 6hrs of use.


----------



## webvan

Thanks, so the "Ayake" are a Mifo rebrand, not a Shanling MTW100 rebrand, would have been too good to be true 



cacio said:


> just received my TRANYA B530. out of the box compared with MPOW T5 (from memory, will test it side by side today)
> 
> using SBC "HD" (noticeable better than AAC)
> 
> ...



Thanks for the report, do you have the Anbes 359 to compare them to ? Still wondering if the B530 are worth getting if one already has the Anbes/SSK/Letscom


----------



## 100Pipers

Got the regular mifo 05 arriving today, Amazon offered a £30.00 discount last night, so i pulled the trigger at £39.97.


----------



## CocaCola15

rhsauer said:


> On an unrelated note, since I’m now done with the MW07+, I’ve been listening to the Soundcore Liberty 2 Pros for the last hour or so, and I have to say that, even with the “hiss,” these are the best TWEs (and some of the best earphones, period) I have ever heard.   Incredible (melodic) bass, and incredible clarity.  Of course, I have to send these back too because they randomly disconnect during phone calls (and voice memos), and I think there might be a related issue with the microphone quality — but I will definitely get a new (hopefully working) pair.  They sound just that good.


Agree re the Liberty Pro 2. I had some pain with the wings that came on the phones after extended wear. I just took them off. Now, the LP2s feel less secure, but pain gone. They do stay in place. I also went with some bulby Comply foam tips, very nice combo. Lucky for me, no hiss and no dropouts so far.


----------



## Caipirina

100Pipers said:


> Got the regular mifo 05 arriving today, Amazon offered a £30.00 discount last night, so i pulled the trigger at £39.97.


 BA or DD ??? still at ~40% off, nice!


----------



## clerkpalmer

I'm beginning to think I may hang in there with anker and do a warranty exchange rather than a return.  They really do sound special. Unicorn magic perhaps.  Interestingly Anker is now showing a one month delay for shipping due to high demand. I wonder if they are just fixing the hiss and not shipping anymore.


----------



## cacio

webvan said:


> Thanks for the report, do you have the Anbes 359 to compare them to ? Still wondering if the B530 are worth getting if one already has the Anbes/SSK/Letscom



without having the Anbes 359, i would say no. simply even if the B530 are slightly better, I don't see a reason to have more than 1 pair of headphones of comparable quality.

I personally am 100% sold on TWS, and just wait for the right high end pair with at least aptX HD, to also get rid of the wired PC setup. 

having only two pairs of TWS would be my dream. A pair for critical listening, which could be bigger. And a small portable pair for activitys. And the B530 fill the 2nd place quite well.

I still have to compare the MPOW T5 directly (have to wait until I meet my sister again) but so far after 2-3h playtime , I already like B530 more


----------



## 100Pipers

Caipirina said:


> BA or DD ??? still at ~40% off, nice!


DD


----------



## hifi80sman

Anyone able to determine if they are able to get the MW07 Plus to work with AAC?


----------



## cacio (Oct 20, 2019)

so after some A/B testing between the TRANYA B530 vs MPOW T5 my quick & dirty conclusion is the following:

I would not sell either to get the other. "Quality" wise they are comparable.

B530 are just more open, more balanced signature. Better suited for more music genres whereas the T5 have (too) much bass which extends to much into low mids. T5 is more "tuned" for "mainstream" compressed music.


I feel like the DAC of the Qualcomm SoC in T5 is more detailed, but the B530 have better drivers. So the T5 can have sometimes a bit better background details.

Sync latency while Video playback is better on B530.


If you are on iOS, then get B530 since you are anyway limited to AAC 256kbit.

On android its not that simple. Custom ROMs often have SBC HD, which is comparable to aptX. But if you have stock firmware and don't want or can't flash a custom ROM, I would get the MPOW T5 because of aptX.

SBC HD is SBC in dual channel instead of joint stereo. So instead having only one "stream" with L/R inside, you have two SBC streams, one for each channel.

Now with android 10, I think that SBC "HD" is included now in developer settings (called simply dual channel)

SBC < AAC < aptX | SBC HD < aptX HD < LDAC | LHCD

in my personal case (SBC HD) the B530 are a slight upgrade over the T5 overall speaking

UPDATE: after more burn in time, they improved quite a bit. the soundstage is noticably better than on MPOW T5. the accuracy also improved a bit.

now i can fully recommend the TRANYA B530 over MPOW T5, even if you might miss out a bit on bitrate. but the overall experiance is better on B530


----------



## Darkestred

Luchyres said:


> I simply must know - what's the best compact flash light with a red led mode? You may have just ignited an itch in another person for the first time..
> 
> I'm enjoying the MW07+ sound quality so far. Admittedly more "neutral" than my ideal - want a bit more bass emphasis (but it is quality). I'm treble sensitive - so it gets me on me songs - but nothing a little eq won't fix.
> 
> ...



Ooph.  Don't the MW07 already get abysmal battery life? 

Very tough to answer that.  Flashlights are just like headphones.  Lots of options and objections/subjections.  I am not up-to-date on red light/modes but you can look into the following three under $70 lights:
Nitecore SRT9 - You'll get a powerful white light with decent red light mode and UV light. - https://tinyurl.com/y28pzxnp
Photo Proton Pro - you'll get a navigationable light with red light mode - https://tinyurl.com/y5hnyn5r
Zebralight H502pr - They make some really nice lights - https://tinyurl.com/y633g3hl

and if you're feeling spending here are som $200 + options:

SureFire A2 LED - https://tinyurl.com/y2qt8fd8
HDS dark adoption red - https://tinyurl.com/yxr9p9t2

www.candlepowerforums.com
www.budgetlightforum.com


----------



## geoxile

Peddler said:


> The Mavin's have a surprisingly wide range (for a bluetooth headphone) and appear to be fairly flat to my ears and don't tend to favour low end to much. The sound signature really reminds me of the Ultimate Ears Triple Fi 10's although perhaps a little more congested when the music gets busy.
> 
> I have a fairly embarrassing collection of bluetooth headphones including the Sony WH1000XM2, Apple Airpods, SoundPeats and the BT Transfer from Status and the Mavin's sound easily as good as the Transfer's and definitely more accurate than the others I've mentioned.
> 
> ...


It does, thanks a lot. Personally I enjoy a V-shape but flat is good too. Hopefully it'll be a good fit for me. Personally I found the Outliers to be a decent fit but would have liked foam tips because the soft silicone didn't make for a secure fit and it would slip a little during jogging, but the shape of the headphones held them in.


----------



## hifi80sman

Darkestred said:


> Ooph. Don't the MW07 already get abysmal battery life?


That’s the original MW07, the MW07 Plus is the new version with better battery life, BT 5, and ANC.


----------



## d3myz

Been listening to the MPOW T20 today. So far it sounds quite good, nothing spectacular, but I need to give it a day or two. I saw TOOL last night and while I did use my Ear plugs most of the time, I left them out long enough to know my hearing is going to take a day or two to recover.  That show was beyond Loud!


----------



## hifi80sman

d3myz said:


> Been listening to the MPOW T20 today. So far it sounds quite good, nothing spectacular, but I need to give it a day or two. I saw TOOL last night and while I did use my Ear plugs most of the time, I left them out long enough to know my hearing is going to take a day or two to recover.  That show was beyond Loud!


USB-C?


----------



## Bartig

d3myz said:


> Been listening to the MPOW T20 today. So far it sounds quite good, nothing spectacular, but I need to give it a day or two. I saw TOOL last night and while I did use my Ear plugs most of the time, I left them out long enough to know my hearing is going to take a day or two to recover.  That show was beyond Loud!


It seems like all kind of new cases are getting bigger.


----------



## Slater

Darkestred said:


> Whats going to wind up happening is (much like most universals) these will not fit in my ear and i'll have one-eye open looking for the next vendor to create a solution that fits me needs and hopefully my ears.  But for wireless? I just want a nice pair that fit me and sound good.  I don't need much more than that from a TWS.  Now, in a few years, if the tech picks up and they are rivaling the big boys.  It may be time to decide the future.
> 
> I hope this doesnt turn into my obsession with flashlights.  Every 3-4 years i get the itch and buy the latest emitter (in neutral white) and then 3 or 4 more shortly after.



I know exactly what you mean about flashlights. I was a flashaholic many years ago, and was able to totally get off that train altogether. I just enjoy all of the nice ones I have, even though nowadays they’re not the absolute latest and greatest, not the most modded, etc.


----------



## Caipirina (Oct 20, 2019)

Bartig said:


> It seems like all kind of new cases are getting bigger.



Funny you should say that ... I came across something 'new' last night that boasts to be extra small and 'slimmest' case at 1.5cm ... those earbuds look weird, (pics are not that great, watch the product video) ... they look like totally nozzle less! Kinda curious about them.


----------



## JonIrenicus

I should have just waited and ordered the liberty 2 pros on amazon.  Everyone and their mother here has gotten theirs.


----------



## Putshoesonthatmonster (Oct 19, 2019)

First tws landed today...

mpow T5/m5 and bomaker sifi

I thought I would share my initial thoughts, I am basing this on the latest android with a pixel 3.

Personally, im not fussed about controls or buttons on the units. Mainly sound and design has my attention.

I prefer the design of the bomaker, small case (would fit in a jeans pocket without being too noticeable), smaller bud. Logo not on display. But they have a small flashing led when in use.  WHY!!!!!!

The mpow looks cheaper with the logo on display on the bud (which is bigger) and the case is much bigger.

I have only messed around with them for a few hours and I have only used stock ear tips. Any recommendations please let me know, that will fit the case (e.g. mpow smallest tips just don't fit the bomaker case, too long)  I have small canals and usually always use the smallest tip. None of this double flange lark.

I am enjoying the last hot chip album and thought I would use this for my test with a flac file (overkill) initially with a neutral equaliser.

The highs initially caused me concern on the bomaker. Personally to gain a sound I liked, I had to up the bass, mids a little and knock down the highs a touch. For me they have better sound stage and separation. Therefore more to work with.

The mpows have a fuller sound, however less sound stage which means the sound can be too muddled at times. I ended up upping the mids a little.

They are both decent, the bomakers are slightly in front for me. Lower profile, better design and smaller case and more sound stage. Just that small flashing led every 3 seconds or so annoys me.


----------



## geoxile

Bartig said:


> It seems like all kind of new cases are getting bigger.


It certainly does seem like they're trying to cram a ton of extra charges into the cases which seems pointless. 8-10 hours per charge is pretty standard for these new TWS+ headphones and that's really enough for an entire work day for me. Worst case scenario I only really need one extra charge until I can get access to a USB port or outlet. I imagine only frequent travelers would need more... Who are these for, truckers who don't have a 12v plug?


----------



## Rob E. (Oct 19, 2019)

Putshoesonthatmonster said:


> First tws landed today...   mpow T5/m5 and bomaker sifi...
> ...I thought I would share my initial thoughts,...
> The highs initially caused me concern on the bomaker. Personally to gain a sound I liked, I had to up the bass, mids a little and knock down the highs a touch. For me they have better sound stage and separation. Therefore more to work with...



Speaking of the Bomaker; fwiw, and just my opinion; They do tend to be bright (not sibilant). V. good soundstage and nicely detailed. They benefit from using Comply (or foam) tips. Tames the highs without smothering them. I liked almost everything about them except their inability to handle deeper bass. If driven past a certain point - but within reason and sane volume, the driver will overload and break up. Something that won't happen - for example - with any of the Tranya's  I've used. I kept the Bomaker's just shy of a month before they were returned with some regret.


----------



## d3myz

hifi80sman said:


> USB-C?


Negative. and something fishy is up with the right touch sensor, I seem to have to place my entire finger over it to get it to turn on/off and it doesn't seem to be responding to stop/start commands. But I will say the programming is better than the T5.Pressing down both sensors for 5 seconds turns them off instead of skipping a track then powering off. Sound is not bad, probably average or slightly above, nothing special. The highs are pretty rolled off, not much sub bass and the sound stage is average. The fit is definitely dependent on what tip you are using.  Believe it or not, the squarish short stem stock eartips sound and fit better than my spiral dots or my spinfits. With a longer tip, the don't seem to fit very well in my ears. I think this one is a pass for me. The remind me of the Tiso i4 with better drivers and better defined bass and highs. Maybe a bit more like the Tranya B530 with less crisp treble a little thicker in the mids and a lot less sub bass. They also don't get very loud. louder than the  1more stylish, but they just don't sound as detailed as the stylish. This one is a pass for me.


----------



## d3myz

Bartig said:


> It seems like all kind of new cases are getting bigger.


yea, this case is BIG, but round and flatter, it's a nice case, but the lid feels cheap.


----------



## hifi80sman

geoxile said:


> It certainly does seem like they're trying to cram a ton of extra charges into the cases which seems pointless. 8-10 hours per charge is pretty standard for these new TWS+ headphones and that's really enough for an entire work day for me. Worst case scenario I only really need one extra charge until I can get access to a USB port or outlet. I imagine only frequent travelers would need more... Who are these for, truckers who don't have a 12v plug?


It’s also for bold marketing claims.  A typical buyer will tend to buy something with “more” even if they don’t need it.  It creates the perception of value.


----------



## CoryGillmore

d3myz said:


> Been listening to the MPOW T20 today. So far it sounds quite good, nothing spectacular, but I need to give it a day or two. I saw TOOL last night and while I did use my Ear plugs most of the time, I left them out long enough to know my hearing is going to take a day or two to recover.  That show was beyond Loud!


You saw them at the Utah show?


----------



## bronco1015

Backbeat Pro 5100 arrived today, just processed the return. Pros, nice small case, case and buds are built well imo, case has a button that needs to be pushed to open the lid, nice full feeling bass. also each bud can be used indipendently. Right after paring right bud, was prompted to pair left. The same prompting i got when pairing Ofusho F16. When one is placed in the case, theres a prompt that they're disconnected, then the other pairs to your phone. I had to hit play on my phone when the buds were disconnected and only one was paired, but not a big deal for me. Cons, a tad lacking in the volume imo, and not enough treble. Over all, great offering, but $169.99 is wayy to much to ask. At $100 less, i probably would keep them.


----------



## XGUGU (Oct 20, 2019)

This fortune cookie comes with big bass inside. Coming from a Fiio FH1 Hooked to aptx LL cable and RHA T20, it kicks even punchier and bigger. Mids and treble are very linear and clean, sound stage is a bit narrow and it rolls off beyond 11kHz rather aggressively. Overall very lovely for long time listening. Battery delivers as stated 8 hours, Aptx supported. Thy are yet another Mezone B6 rebrand or in this case debranded. Named in Amazon Hieha B6.


----------



## XGUGU (Oct 20, 2019)

Ignore


----------



## Darkestred

XGUGU said:


> i



Holy humungous batman!  You also hvae the same finger on device 3 times.


----------



## XGUGU

Darkestred said:


> Holy humungous batman!  You also hvae the same finger on device 3 times.


Lol.  Don't know what went wrong. Fixed


----------



## Putshoesonthatmonster (Oct 20, 2019)

Rob E. said:


> Speaking of the Bomaker; fwiw, and just my opinion; They do tend to be bright (not sibilant). V. good soundstage and nicely detailed. They benefit from using Comply (or foam) tips. Tames the highs without smothering them. I liked almost everything about them except their inability to handle deeper bass. If driven past a certain point - but within reason and sane volume, the driver will overload and break up. Something that won't happen - for example - with any of the Tranya's  I've used. I kept the Bomaker's just shy of a month before they were returned with some regret.



Thanks for the reply, I will look into that. With the comply memory foam tips, did they fit in the case?


----------



## FYLegend (Oct 20, 2019)

It might just be my phone which has the same problem with _some _other BT devices, but I'm kinda disappointed by the E12 Ultra's BT connectivity. Sometimes it cuts when I cover the top-left corner of my Note 9 (where the Bluetooth modem is). For the most part the connection is rock-solid but you never know when you will grab your phone from that corner.



hifi80sman said:


> I think it's just poor driver matching.  I've had this on probably 50% of my purchases, however, I haven't had issues with with Sony, Bose, M&D, or Sennheiser (headphones or IEMs).  I have had the issue with (oddly) B&O, Audio-Technica, and various Chi-Fi headphones and IEMs.


Yeah I had some AT IEMs and over-ears where there is a bit of an imbalance, namely on the IM70 and M50x, the latter for me was extremely subtle. On the other hand I was disappointed by how the Sony MDR-1000X handled DSP EQ (clipping distortion) when powered on (whether wired or wireless).

I do wonder if some manufacturers are intentionally making the audio imbalanced to enhance the "holographic binaural 8D stereo effect" which makes casual listeners think there is a great stereo effect but it puts off serious listeners.

The problem with TWS is that the imbalance or driver matching may sometimes a digital artifact since DSP is an additional point of failure. I noticed that on the E12 Ultra when I play a file, it often plays louder on the right bud for a split-second before panning left. The lower mids and bass are fairly well-balanced, except slightly more sub-bass on the right side (still far better than the original E12s I received). It's really noticeable in Luv (Sic) Pt 3 by Nujabes ft. Shing02 where the hi-hats should be in mono, or the snare in Folklove/Flowery Flat by Kenichiro Nishihara (not to mention the ride cymbal should be louder on the right).

FYI I bought these from JRGK-E on Aliexpress. I see ALL3C and FLYDA 3C have them for reasonable prices sometimes bundled with Qi chargers (microUSB doe...)


----------



## Luchyres

I'm officially a degenerate as well. 

So, I should do a full review, but I don't really want to yet - might do it on the plane on monday - but the MW07+ is a stellar premium device - that isn't for me. 

Pros:
Amazing aesthetic (subjective) Black Quartz
Great call quality
Clear, Quality, Neutral Sound
ANC Works (good - not great, but a positive)
Ambient Works 

Cons:
No App (EQ, Firmware)
Low volume (both calls and music) from multiple sources (AptX on Key2) (this is killing me)
No AAC? I don't even use an iPhone as my main phone and this bugs me a bit...
$300
Case - I want it to be pocketable/at least not a scratch magnet like this metal one


I'm amazed to see that everyone is having such an experience with the LPro2 - I am now thinking mine was particularly poorly tuned - and I'm interested to hear what this hardware refresh does re the Hiss everyone is encountering- but.... I'm going on a trip on Monday so I just ordered the Liberty 2 (not Pro) to be delivered tomorrow so I can test them out and potentially use them on my trip. 

Anyone else here try the Liberty 2 non pro?


----------



## ld100

Looking for a wireless set that will work with apple and android and sounds good. Can someone give me few choices? I went thought last 10-15 pages and it was not helpful... Greatly appreciate any help.


----------



## DigDub

Really enjoying the Melomania 1. Smooth sound signature, comfortable to wear and perfect tactile buttons.


----------



## CocaCola15

Luchyres said:


> I'm officially a degenerate as well.
> 
> So, I should do a full review, but I don't really want to yet - might do it on the plane on monday - but the MW07+ is a stellar premium device - that isn't for me.
> 
> ...


Shame you didn't care for the Lp2 Pro. Have them in right now, listening to an acoustic jazz album, The Coryells, and they sound pretty amazing. I have owned some premium BT phones (Senn TWS, latest Sony offering, IQBuds) and many pair of cheaper BT phones (still have a couple, from OCY and Tranya) and the LP2s are fantastic. Also own the Cambridge Audio Melomania 1, which I also like a lot. I use Comply foam (bulby) with the LP2 and had to remove the "wings" cause they hurt after 20-30 minutes. But even without the wings, they do stay in place, though not recommeded for running, gym etc.

Anyway, I have not tried the LP non-pro. Why not give the LP2 a second chance? Apparently, the hiss issue has been fixed and Anker Soundcore is replacing the sets that are affected. Saw tht on Amazon in the Q&A area.


----------



## CocaCola15

DigDub said:


> Really enjoying the Melomania 1. Smooth sound signature, comfortable to wear and perfect tactile buttons.


Second that re Melomania 1. My only recommendation is to use the foam tips. Perfect for my ears, but others need something larger. CA is now offering an incrementally larger pair, and are selling the medium ones that come with the M1 in the UK but not the USA (not yet anyway). So had a friend there send me a 10-pack. Seems the Melomanias are overlooked because no app, design, etc.


----------



## rhsauer (Oct 20, 2019)

Luchyres said:


> Sorry @rhsauer not sure what I did with the quote function there. I can confirm functional apt-x.
> 
> I'm not sure if I'm successfully forcing AAC but it does appear to work when I select it.
> 
> What color did you buy?



I bought they tortoise shell MW07s. They look terrific, but, unfortunately, they’re going back. There’s no reason to spend that much on earphones that I can only use via SBC.

On an unrelated note, I had the same Bluetooth disconnecting problem that I was having with the Liberty 2 Pros with my Sony WF-1000XM3s. Bluetooth would randomly (but reliably) disconnect when using the microphone (i.e., when on a phone call or recording a voice memo).

The fact that the same issue was happening on both devices made me think there was a problem with my phone, rather than the earphones. So I went to the Apple store yesterday and swapped phones —and, lo and behold, the problem seems to have gone away — AND the microphones are working better generally. (In other words, the really bad mic performance I was experiencing was a phone problem, not an earphone problem — and, to make it more confusing, it seemed to only be happening on certain earphones.)

So, I apologize for most of what I may have said about the Liberty 2 Pros and the WF-1000XM3s having terrible mics. The mics on both are adequate — not as good as the Plantronics 5100 (which I would actually use for work related conference calls), but usable in most circumstances.

Too many variables!

i would second what @CocaCola15 and others have said about the Liberty 2 Pros. They are startlingly good sounding — and, now that the microphone works as expected, I think they might be my favorite pair of earphones — better sounding than even the Sennheisers.


----------



## mattedialdoc

Putshoesonthatmonster said:


> Thanks for the reply, I will look into that. With the comply memory foam tips, did they fit in the case?


Yes get the shorter ones marketed for TWS. They are their “truegrip Pro”. I  got the ones for the galaxy buds and they fit both my MPOWT5 and Bomaker , and both fit in the charging case. I read on another forum that the OEM galaxy bud tips would fit the MPOW T5 so I just guessed and chose those size in the Comply.


----------



## Bartig

Just published my KZ E10 TWS review.

Connectivity issues, mediocre comfort, bad battery life, but a very well-executed clear sound signature. These are really easy to love - or to hate.


----------



## clerkpalmer

Bartig said:


> Just published my KZ E10 TWS review.
> 
> Connectivity issues, mediocre comfort, bad battery life, but a very well-executed clear sound signature. These are really easy to love - or to hate.



Thanks for this. Well done.  I think for 59 bucks I can live with this.  The connectivity issues are troubling and seem hard to understand at this stage of the tech. Hopefully KZ can nail this in their next try. Looking forward to receiving mine purely for sq. The around the ear style doesn't bother me.


----------



## Caipirina

Bartig said:


> Just published my KZ E10 TWS review.
> 
> Connectivity issues, mediocre comfort, bad battery life, but a very well-executed clear sound signature. These are really easy to love - or to hate.



Fair rating by your numbering scale. Too bad these are not a slam dunk ... they sound great and with different (longer) tips I don't have that issue that they wiggle themselves out again (you described that very nicely, that those rubber hooks gently pull them back out ... also like the 'battle for ear space' for wearer of glasses, that's even more true when I don the BT20)
Frankly I have no issues with 3h battery life. 

I have not managed to really get out for a walk (it has been raining every afternoon / evening here ever since I received them) so I was not able to replicate any connection issues ...


----------



## Blueshound24

100Pipers said:


> Got the regular mifo 05 arriving today, Amazon offered a £30.00 discount last night, so i pulled the trigger at £39.97.



Does anyone know what the difference is between the Standard mifo 05 and the Pro? It looks a lot like the Shanling.


----------



## webvan

Sadly I just processed the return for my Letscom/Anbes 359/Ufo after coming to terms with the fact that they just can't stay put in my ears, regardless of the tips I've used. I thought I had a good fit with the SpinFit CP360 but they keep "popping out" if I move around a bit even if I tuck them in at the bottom of my ear, I guess my ears are "too big" for them. I really liked their sound though...more than tha Havit G1s that would belong to that same category and that don't pop up. Not sure what to go for now, the Tranya B530 maybe ?


----------



## Blueshound24 (Oct 20, 2019)

rhsauer said:


> i would second what @CocaCola15 and others have said about the Liberty 2 Pros. They are startlingly good sounding — and, now that the microphone works as expected, I think they might be my favorite pair of earphones— *better sounding than even the Sennheisers*.



Could you please elaborate a little on this? Very interested.


----------



## Chrisdu18e (Oct 20, 2019)

Luchyres said:


> I'm officially a degenerate as well.
> 
> So, I should do a full review, but I don't really want to yet - might do it on the plane on monday - but the MW07+ is a stellar premium device - that isn't for me.
> 
> ...



I've contacted Master & Dynamic and they confirm me that the MW07+ supports AAC but they can't mention it for legal reasons.
I'll receive mine thursday. I will try with my mac and my ios products to see if it's true or false.
Anybody else receive the MWO7+ and could check if he can use the AAC codec ?


----------



## cleg

My video about KZ E10. Not perfect, but interesting


----------



## vstolpner

Blueshound24 said:


> Does anyone know what the difference is between the Standard mifo 05 and the Pro? It looks a lot like the Shanling.



Standard is dynamic driver and professional is balanced armature. Shanling has the same split but uses different drivers (and newer chipsets I imagine as the O5 is about 1-2 years old now).
I've reviewed the BA version of both


----------



## d3myz (Oct 20, 2019)

CoryGillmore said:


> You saw them at the Utah show?


I did. It was incredible. And to stay on topic, I brought my MPOW T5's for my wife, just in case she wanted to use them for earplugs. I put them down and they never made it home.


----------



## Blueshound24

vstolpner said:


> Standard is dynamic driver and professional is balanced armature. Shanling has the same split but uses different drivers (and newer chipsets I imagine as the O5 is about 1-2 years old now).
> I've reviewed the BA version of both



Thanks!


----------



## webvan

Chrisdu18e said:


> I've contacted Master & Dynamic and they confirm me that the MW07+ supports AAC but they can't mention it for legal reasons.
> I'll receive mine thursday. I will try with my mac and my ios products to see if it's true or false.
> Anybody else receive the MWO7+ and could check if he can use the AAC codec ?



Well as you've seen here there has been zero success connecting over AAC...

How did you get them to ship it to France ? It seems they're expediting it, aren't you worried about getting hit by taxes ?


----------



## Chrisdu18e

webvan said:


> Well as you've seen here there has been zero success connecting over AAC...
> 
> How did you get them to ship it to France ? It seems they're expediting it, aren't you worried about getting hit by taxes ?


I've just ordered them in their website. They are actually in Memphis.
For the moment, there is no other way to buy these TW and send in France.
For the taxes, that's the price to pay to be an early adopter !!!


----------



## Rob E. (Oct 20, 2019)

Putshoesonthatmonster said:


> Thanks for the reply, I will look into that. With the comply memory foam tips, did they fit in the case?



T-400's will fit the nozzle. Not too tough to slip them on. Fitting the case? Not stock, but cut them down about 1/3 and they'll fit the case easily. I've a few extra pairs, so didn't mind experimenting at the time. Fwiw, none of my other TWS earbuds (at least the ones that I've used and kept) have benefitted from Comply's. Comfortable though they are - for me, they tend to smother the top end, suppressing fine detail and nuance. Though they do 'seem' to add some warmth and 'body' to the sound (which is a nice thing and part of their allure). It's a personal call. We like what we like. I liked the Bomaker's more with the Comply's.

edit: I see @mattedialdoc reco'd the shorter Comply Truegrip Pro's. Those are the ones to get. I just didn't want to spend the $20., to try them out.


----------



## cacio (Oct 20, 2019)

webvan said:


> Sadly I just processed the return for my Letscom/Anbes 359/Ufo after coming to terms with the fact that they just can't stay put in my ears, regardless of the tips I've used. I thought I had a good fit with the SpinFit CP360 but they keep "popping out" if I move around a bit even if I tuck them in at the bottom of my ear, I guess my ears are "too big" for them. I really liked their sound though...more than tha Havit G1s that would belong to that same category and that don't pop up. Not sure what to go for now, the Tranya B530 maybe ?



I have used the following TWS: QCY T2C, Tiso i4/i5, KZ T1, MPOW T5 and Tranya B530.

KZ T1 had the best fit, and possibly because of the ear tips since I have used the small T1 ear tips on the MPOW T5 which improved the fit a lot. The stock T5 tips made them stick out to much. The KZ T1 ear tips are just "shorter" which allows deeper fit. I have jet to try those tips with my B530 since I feel they could also go a little bit deeper.

Anyway, the B530 are pretty secure in my ears with the stock ear tips. no way they could fall out of my ears, even while running. and since you say you have "bigger" ears, the B530 might actually be a good option to try out, since they are not that small. but the shape is ok, and is already more comfortable than the MPOW T5 with the KZ T1 ear tips.

you just have to know, that AAC is really a bottleneck. i use them with SBC HD /Dual Channel, which could be compared to 320kbit MP3/aptX quality. soundstage, separation, definition, everythings improves with SBC HD. i want to to try to raise the bitrate when i have time for some "hacking"

so depends on you, with which sound quality you can live with (with or without android modding)


----------



## webvan

@cacio - thanks, I've seen some mention of SBC HD but haven't looked into yet, it's only Android 10 is it ?

Good to hear the B530 are a bit bigger and might "fill up" my ear more, like the Havit G1 (or 65t) do. It's too bad there are no (well the X12 have a sleeve but then that doesn't fit in the case and they never move anyway when I run with little foam pieces) TWSs that come with "wings" as that's a good way to keep everything in place. They can be really comfortable too, like those of the QC-20.

I don't think the KZ T1 are available anymore are they ? Didn't they have that weird sound problem too with either super quiet or super loud ?


----------



## rhsauer (Oct 20, 2019)

Chrisdu18e said:


> I've contacted Master & Dynamic and they confirm me that the MW07+ supports AAC but they can't mention it for legal reasons.
> I'll receive mine thursday. I will try with my mac and my ios products to see if it's true or false.
> Anybody else receive the MWO7+ and could check if he can use the AAC codec ?


 
That’s what M&D support said to me too, but I had no luck connecting the MW07+ via AAC on my iPhone or my iMac.

Years ago I had the same problem with the OG Westone Bluetooth cable, and Westone was able to send me a rather complicated patch that I applied via USB that enabled AAC. Maybe M&D can do the same. I’m not counting on it.

i don’t want to sound like a conspiracy theorist (although that seems to be in fashion now), but it feels like more than a coincidence that Apt-x was silently removed from Macs in the Catalina update and, at virtually the same time, more high end earphones (like these and the Libratone Track Air+) are shopping with Apt-x but without AAC. Codec wars — not good for the consumer.


----------



## cacio

webvan said:


> @cacio - thanks, I've seen some mention of SBC HD but haven't looked into yet, it's only Android 10 is it ?
> 
> Good to hear the B530 are a bit bigger and might "fill up" my ear more, like the Havit G1 (or 65t) do. It's too bad there are no (well the X12 have a sleeve but then that doesn't fit in the case and they never move anyway when I run with little foam pieces) TWSs that come with "wings" as that's a good way to keep everything in place. They can be really comfortable too, like those of the QC-20.
> 
> I don't think the KZ T1 are available anymore are they ? Didn't they have that weird sound problem too with either super quiet or super loud ?




yeah i would not advice to buy the KZ T1

just try the B530. even with AAC they are good. and could be improved further with the right phone / software

and SBC HD | Dual Channel "should" be in android 10, but i have not tried it myself yet. on custom roms its already working on android 8 & 9 for sure. and its even possible to mod the stock OEM firmware in case your phone does not have custom roms. you still have to root it though

tbh i feel with all of you who are limited to AAC or even worse, SBC on even some premium headphones. its like driving a sportscar with 1/2 throttle.


----------



## Luchyres

CocaCola15 said:


> Shame you didn't care for the Lp2 Pro. Have them in right now, listening to an acoustic jazz album, The Coryells, and they sound pretty amazing. I have owned some premium BT phones (Senn TWS, latest Sony offering, IQBuds) and many pair of cheaper BT phones (still have a couple, from OCY and Tranya) and the LP2s are fantastic. Also own the Cambridge Audio Melomania 1, which I also like a lot. I use Comply foam (bulby) with the LP2 and had to remove the "wings" cause they hurt after 20-30 minutes. But even without the wings, they do stay in place, though not recommeded for running, gym etc.
> 
> Anyway, I have not tried the LP non-pro. Why not give the LP2 a second chance? Apparently, the hiss issue has been fixed and Anker Soundcore is replacing the sets that are affected. Saw tht on Amazon in the Q&A area.



I'm interested in giving the LPro2 another chance - if the impressions continue to be good. I wanted to give them a little time to fix any of the other quality/tuning issues that may crop up. 

For me, I didn't really have an issue with hiss, just very compressed highs/treble and way recessed mids. I would be pretty floored if everyone else's sounded like mine and no one mentioned it - so I am leaning toward a bad set. 

That being said, I'm interested to hear the Liberty 2 - better water resistance, hopefully similarly good calls, and I'm usually a DD guy - so maybe I'll like the sound sig more? In any case, the curiosity was killing me in that I liked the LPro2 package so much before I critically listened/compared. 

I'll let you all know!


----------



## rhsauer (Oct 20, 2019)

Blueshound24 said:


> Could you please elaborate a little on this? Very interested.



The Liberty 2 Pros have the biggest, cleanest, most melodic bass I’ve ever heard in an earphone — and, presumably because of the Knowles BA driver, they also have clear, sparking highs that _never_ get sibilant. I’m sure a more critical audiophile could find something wrong with them, but I can’t. I’m writing this on an airplane and I just took off my trusty Bose QC35s and put on the Liberty 2 Pros, and I like the Liberty 2 Pros better, even without ANC. (Full disclosure: I’ve never really loved the Bose house sound.)


----------



## Luchyres

rhsauer said:


> The Liberty 2 Pros have the biggest, cleanest, most melodic bass I’ve ever heard in an earphone — and, presumably because of the Knowles BA driver, they also have clear, sparking highs that _never_ get sibilant. I’m sure a more critical audiophile could find something wrong with them, but I can’t. I’m writing this on an airplane and I just took off my trusty Bose QC35s and put on the Liberty 2 Pros, and I like the Liberty 2 Pros better, even without ANC. (Full disclosure: I’ve never really loved the Bose house sound.)



@CocaCola15 it's the posts like these that make me want to try them again - though now I'd have to pay full price....

 :joyful:


----------



## cacio (Oct 20, 2019)

rhsauer said:


> That’s what M&D support said to me too, but I had no luck connecting the MW07+ via AAC on my iPhone or my iMac.
> 
> Years ago I had the same problem with the OG Westone Bluetooth cable, and Westone was able to send me a rather complicated patch that I applied via USB that enabled AAC. Maybe M&D can do the same. I’m not counting on it.
> 
> i don’t want to sound like a conspiracy theorist (although that seems to be in fashion now), but it seems to me to be more than a coincidence that Apt-x was silently removed from Macs in the Catalina update and, at virtually the same time, more high end earphones (like these and the Libratone Track Air+) are shopping with Apt-x but without AAC. Codec wars — not good for the consumer.




speaking of conspiracy theory, there might be more truth there than most people think.

OPUS is the best lossy audio codec out there. 100% royalty free. there was simply no reason for the Bluetooth SIG to not enforce it with bluetooth 5.0 spec

but it would make AAC, aptX, aptX HD ... useless

and with the increased bandwith with BT 5.0, we could also have had a lossless audio codec too (like flac, 100% royalty free)


----------



## CocaCola15

Luchyres said:


> @CocaCola15 it's the posts like these that make me want to try them again - though now I'd have to pay full price....
> 
> :joyful:


I'd hate for you to try them and get the same result. Maybe my ears just are lousy. But between the CA Melomania 1 and these, I may have what I need (he says knowing it's probably a lie).


----------



## webvan

cacio said:


> yeah i would not advice to buy the KZ T1
> 
> just try the B530. even with AAC they are good. and could be improved further with the right phone / software
> 
> ...



Actually I pulled out the Havit G1 again and they don't sound that bad, there's some nice pumping bass and they fill my ear well and they have wings, what's not to like ! Well I did put some whirlwind tips as they stock tips didn't fit too well. So I'll probably stay with that for a while...having said that I'm intrigued by the recent comments on the LP2 that I must admit I have not looked into at all.


----------



## Luchyres

CocaCola15 said:


> I'd hate for you to try them and get the same result. Maybe my ears just are lousy. But between the CA Melomania 1 and these, I may have what I need (he says knowing it's probably a lie).



I wouldn't hold it against ya - and I'm glad to hear you really like them!

And you're definitely lying - I went from "ugh, I'm going to take a break from this hobby" right after deciding I would return the MW07+ to "let me see if I can get one day shipping on the 2nd tier anker liberty, just in case I like them and can use them on my trip" ... within a 6 hour period.


----------



## CocaCola15

True. And this is just my "bluetooth" phase. I have had others in the headphone buy, try and repeat realm.


----------



## Rob E.

Bluegrass anyone? These guys are talented...


----------



## dw1narso

Rob E. said:


> Bluegrass anyone? These guys are talented...



Love Bela Fleck.. His music transcend beyond genres..


----------



## diegodesouza

Edwood said:


> As much as I like my Jaybird X2's and Freedom 2's, I only use them for my workouts.  I haven't found a pair of Wireless IEM's that will keep me from using my JH Audio Layla's.  Now if only JH Audio or someone would make a wireless Dongle adapter or something for Custom IEM's.


As a matter of fact JH has introduced a Bluetooth cable for your iems. https://jhaudio.com/p/bluetooth-cable


----------



## hifi80sman (Oct 21, 2019)

Luchyres said:


> I'm interested in giving the LPro2 another chance - if the impressions continue to be good. I wanted to give them a little time to fix any of the other quality/tuning issues that may crop up.
> 
> For me, I didn't really have an issue with hiss, just very compressed highs/treble and way recessed mids. I would be pretty floored if everyone else's sounded like mine and no one mentioned it - so I am leaning toward a bad set.
> 
> ...


I actually picked up the Liberty 2 from Amazon, but went to WalMart today and they also had them in stock.

As far as sound, they are similar to the Pros but the bass on the Liberty 2 is a bit deeper & bigger, but less refined. The highs are crisp, yet lack the precision of the Pros.  Overall, I think the sound on the Liberty 2 is more exciting, but less defined. There is also a hiss on the Liberty 2,  it it’s not as bad as the Pro.  The case on the Liberty 2 does not have wireless charging, and even though it’s glossy, it has a sparkle/metallic finish, so it still looks good.

I like the Pros, and at first the hiss didn’t bother me, but now I notice it all the time.  While the Pros are technically better and fun, the Liberty 2 are close and still very enjoyable.  For me, it’s worth saving some cash and returning the Pros.

The $50 I’m saving may go toward these bad boys:
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07YRLK978/


----------



## Luchyres

hifi80sman said:


> I actually picked up the Liberty 2 from Amazon, but went to WalMart today and they also had them in stock.
> 
> As far as sound, they are similar to the Pros but the bass on the Liberty 2 is a bit deeper & bigger, but less refined. The highs are crisp, yet lack the precision of the Pros.  Overall, I think the sound on the Liberty 2 is more exciting, but less defined. There is also a hiss on the Liberty 2,  it it’s not as bad as the Pro.  The case on the Liberty 2 does not have wireless charging, and even though it’s glossy, it has a sparkle/metallic finish, so it still looks good.
> 
> ...



I appreciate your thoughts! I didnt realize you had purchased both - thank you for the insights! The wireless charging wasn't a big deal for me either...

Do you find the Liberty 2 as good for calls and do you feel the mids are recessed at all? Any call quality comparison thoughts with the Backbeat 5100?  Thank you!


----------



## webvan

hifi80sman said:


> I actually picked up the Liberty 2 from Amazon, but went to WalMart today and they also had them in stock.
> 
> As far as sound, they are similar to the Pros but the bass on the Liberty 2 is a bit deeper & bigger, but less refined. The highs are crisp, yet lack the precision of the Pros.  Overall, I think the sound on the Liberty 2 is more exciting, but less defined. There is also a hiss on the Liberty 2,  it it’s not as bad as the Pro.  The case on the Liberty 2 does not have wireless charging, and even though it’s glossy, it has a sparkle/metallic finish, so it still looks good.
> 
> ...



Thanks for the feedback,I was actually wondering if someone had compared the LP2 and the LP2Pro. It doesn't sound like the "Astria Coaxial" makes that big of a difference then, except for adding some hiss  I've seen people comment that they sound like the WF-1000XM3 but actually stay in their ears, it might have been the LP2 Pro though, not the LP2.

The Soundpeats Truengine SE look interesting with their dual DD and it seems like they could be a good fit for my big ears, no wings though sadly. I've seen a mention in the comments of a Truengine 2 with wireless charging and "wings" but can't see them on Amazon.


----------



## geoxile

Peddler said:


> The Mavin's have a surprisingly wide range (for a bluetooth headphone) and appear to be fairly flat to my ears and don't tend to favour low end to much. The sound signature really reminds me of the Ultimate Ears Triple Fi 10's although perhaps a little more congested when the music gets busy.
> 
> I have a fairly embarrassing collection of bluetooth headphones including the Sony WH1000XM2, Apple Airpods, SoundPeats and the BT Transfer from Status and the Mavin's sound easily as good as the Transfer's and definitely more accurate than the others I've mentioned.
> 
> ...


I'm finding I'm having a hard time getting a good fit too. The default tips are the right width but they're so long it feels like they're hanging out of my ears rather than resting along whatever the outer flanges of the ear are called. Are you using the stock tips? Besides the fit they're great especially at a mere $120. The compact case is probably my favorite feature though


----------



## AtariPrime

Edwood said:


> As much as I like my Jaybird X2's and Freedom 2's, I only use them for my workouts.  I haven't found a pair of Wireless IEM's that will keep me from using my JH Audio Layla's.  Now if only JH Audio or someone would make a wireless Dongle adapter or something for Custom IEM's.



At $2,725...I don't think you are going to find anything in the Bluetooth realm that sounds better.  No offense, but the difference between those and a $100 pair is about 1% of sound quality.  But if that's what you want, it's what you want.  The problem is that sound quality is lost with Bluetooth, defeating the entire point of extreme high end earbuds, and even though it is getting better and better it is still years away from being 99% as good as wired phones.  If that level of quality is the goal, it seems best to stick with wired.


----------



## AtariPrime

C_Lindbergh said:


> Just give me a pair of TWEs with:
> 
> Good SQ
> Great app with a good EQ and loads of settings like customizable gestures/actions.
> ...



If you want value for money with good sound quality, I recommend the Creative Outlier Gold, it sounds almost as good as the best ones on the market and is half the price.  May fail you in the gesture controls a bit, but it does have a good app. Also, 14 hr. battery.


----------



## geoxile (Oct 21, 2019)

AtariPrime said:


> If you want value for money with good sound quality, I recommend the Creative Outlier Gold, it sounds almost as good as the best ones on the market and is half the price.  May fail you in the gesture controls a bit, but it does have a good app. Also, 14 hr. battery.



Personally I had a lot of connection drops with the outlier gold and I sent it back for a RMA. We'll see if they actually can fix it, although I had the normal Airs with a not so great connection as well, but those were actually defective since the battery life didnt last more than about 5.5hr. The Golds generally live up to the battery life which is great.  ut I guess they're using an older Qualcomm TWS chipset that simply has a hard time maintaining the connection between the master and slave units. Based on the amazon reviews for both the Air and Gold I'd say it's a common issue.

Personally I wouldnt buy anything that isnt using a TWS+ chipset if you have a Qualcomm based source device, whether that be a phone or an aptx bluetooth transmitter. I've only had the Mavin Air X for a day and a half but it's a massive improvement already since it doesnt stutter or drop at all while my phone is in my pocket in the office whereas both Outliers had issues with my pockets

Edit: connection aside I found them to be near perfect for the price. Personally enjoyed the sound signature, had a decent fit, and the battery life was crazy. Only other (minor) issues were the tips weren't so good at sealing and the button was terrible, but I almost never used it. If they can make the button, the actual switch, larger and lighter, and improve the connection/bt chipset it would be a real winner imo.


----------



## Blueshound24

Just FYI, I posted this on the 'Deals' thread as well.

*Sennheiser Momentum True Wireless Bluetooth Earphones*
*List Price: $299.95*
*Price: $265.93 Prime FREE Delivery*
*You Save: $34.02 (11%)*
*https://www.amazon.com/Sennheiser-True-Wireless-Bluetooth-Fingertip/dp/B07J2WF2JW/*


----------



## Edwood

AtariPrime said:


> At $2,725...I don't think you are going to find anything in the Bluetooth realm that sounds better.  No offense, but the difference between those and a $100 pair is about 1% of sound quality.  But if that's what you want, it's what you want.  The problem is that sound quality is lost with Bluetooth, defeating the entire point of extreme high end earbuds, and even though it is getting better and better it is still years away from being 99% as good as wired phones.  If that level of quality is the goal, it seems best to stick with wired.



Update to a very old post, but I am now using Sennheiser Momentum True Wireless.  It pretty much checks all the boxes for me and has completely replaced all my other wireless earphones.  The most killer feature for me is it's Transparent Hearing feature.  It makes them perfect for office use.  For running or biking, not so much, as there is a lot of wind noise from the mics.

JH Audio didn't have the screw in 4 pin connectors for their Bluetooth adapter when I last checked them out, so I can't say how they sound with Lola's or Layla's.

-Ed


----------



## hifi80sman

Luchyres said:


> I appreciate your thoughts! I didnt realize you had purchased both - thank you for the insights! The wireless charging wasn't a big deal for me either...
> 
> Do you find the Liberty 2 as good for calls and do you feel the mids are recessed at all? Any call quality comparison thoughts with the Backbeat 5100?  Thank you!


They function well for calls.  Just got off a call a few mins ago and they said I sounded loud and clear.  I also left myself a message and it sounded good.  Not as good as the BackBeat 5100, but still very usable.  Quiet office.

As far as sound, the mids are a bit pulled back, yes.  Typical V with the "Signature" sound profile.  Obviously, you can mess around a bit with the different sound profiles.

There is still a hiss, which is not as bad as the Pros, probably 25% less hiss, but if you're sensitive to hiss, then these may still bother you.


----------



## hifi80sman

Blueshound24 said:


> Just FYI, I posted this on the 'Deals' thread as well.
> 
> *Sennheiser Momentum True Wireless Bluetooth Earphones
> List Price: $299.95
> ...


If anyone is interested, I'm open to selling my Sennheiser Momentum True Wireless for $200 flat (price includes shipping, contiguous USA only, sorry AK & HI).  Like-new condition, rarely used.  Box + all accessories.  PM me.


----------



## AtariPrime

Edwood said:


> Update to a very old post, but I am now using Sennheiser Momentum True Wireless.  It pretty much checks all the boxes for me and has completely replaced all my other wireless earphones.  The most killer feature for me is it's Transparent Hearing feature.  It makes them perfect for office use.  For running or biking, not so much, as there is a lot of wind noise from the mics.
> 
> JH Audio didn't have the screw in 4 pin connectors for their Bluetooth adapter when I last checked them out, so I can't say how they sound with Lola's or Layla's.
> 
> -Ed



The Momentums are considering one of the best as far as sound quality.  Their bulkiness though is a dealbreaker for me.  The pass thru features are lost on me as well, as I have no interest in hearing the world around me.  I want to be as isolated as in a hyperberic chamber.  If I get hit by a car, so be it.


----------



## nerdspot

Has anyone had their TRN T200 ship? I bought mine on FastTech and it's been in a "Order Received" status for almost a month now. The ETA for shipping gets pushed by 5-7 days every week and their support ticket system seems abysmal.


----------



## Blueshound24 (Oct 21, 2019)

AtariPrime said:


> The Momentums are considering one of the best as far as sound quality.  Their bulkiness though is a dealbreaker for me.  The pass thru features are lost on me as well, as I have no interest in hearing the world around me.  I want to be as isolated as in a hyperberic chamber.  If I get hit by a car, so be it.



Mostly agree.
However, there is nothing so annoying as when I get IEM's placed just right without a leak and they feel and sound great.....

Then... somebody comes up to talk to you and, without Pass Through, you have to take them out to hear what the heck they are saying. Then go through getting the perfect seal all over again.

With Pass Through you can just touch the button and hear them without removing them. Then when your convo is finished simply push the button to return to your hyperbaric chamber and music bliss.


----------



## actorlife (Oct 21, 2019)

Hello Ladies and Gents. Any good bargains? Who has the most TWS now? Got a photo spread on the ways. Stay tuned.


----------



## hifi80sman (Oct 21, 2019)

actorlife said:


> Hello Ladies and Gents. Any good bargains? Who has the most TWS now? Got a photo spread on the ways. Stay tuned.


Welcome back!  Elvis is in the building!

You'll have to read the last several hundred pages to find out!


----------



## hifi80sman

En Route

$47.99 + $5.00 coupon.  Tried to find a promo code, but no luck.  One of the speakers is Beryllium, so let's hope these sound better than the traditional dual DD setup!


----------



## d3myz

Blueshound24 said:


> Just FYI, I posted this on the 'Deals' thread as well.
> 
> *Sennheiser Momentum True Wireless Bluetooth Earphones
> List Price: $299.95
> ...


Now only $200 overpriced


----------



## d3myz

hifi80sman said:


> En Route
> 
> $47.99 + $5.00 coupon.  Tried to find a promo code, but no luck.  One of the speakers is Beryllium, so let's hope these sound better than the traditional dual DD setup!


I just ordered some too! ugh. I'm such a reprobate.


----------



## d3myz

actorlife said:


> Hello Ladies and Gents. Any good bargains? Who has the most TWS now? Got a photo spread on the ways. Stay tuned.


Welcome Back!!


----------



## FoolsVerse

Hey guys long time lurker some times poster anyway. I was debating on mifo 05 vs Sabbat e12 ultra. But then reading here I wanted to get shingling mtw100 but I found a par of refurbished jabras I was wondering what everyone's thoughts are and what I should do? I like the passthrough abilty because I wanna wear these at work but I'm used to using my over ear akg Q701s what ones would have a good sound quality? I also mostly listen to down tempo and mellow music like nujabes and Home.

Thanks everyone!


----------



## d3myz

hifi80sman said:


> Gotcha.  Yeah, I was hoping there was a way without actually having to go out and buy a Mac.  I did just buy a new computer last month, so time to upgrade?
> 
> Apple "Genius":  "So what brings you in to the Apple Store today?"
> 
> ...



Classic Hifi80sman!! I wish I could of been there for this convo. Did you say "Do you even bluetooth bruh?"


----------



## d3myz

BigZ12 said:


> I think I've tried 4-5 versions of Bluetooth Explorer in different Additional Tools for Xcode "X" in Catalina. No AptX...


That's why i'm staying on Mojave for a while. My BT explorer works fine and I haven't seen this talked about on here, but all I have to do to figure out what codec i'm using it play a song and hit option and click on Bluetooth then highlight my device. Is that the same method you are using? I know to force AptX and changed the bit rate of AAC etc. I have to use the BT explorer in the dev tools.


----------



## go0gle

Liberty 2 pro feedback. Ive had for a week now.

Source is iPhone xs using neutron with some flac files, also Spotify(high quality) and soundcloud with standard quality because they want money for higher bitrates. in terms of music its been classic rock, alternative, rap, and lots of techno. Oh, and that new tool album has been on repeat last few days. 

Comfort has been stellar for me. I think the longest session I've had was over 5 hours.. No issues at all. 

Battery life is great. I don't really have anything to compare them to but I get ~7 hours per charge. Charging case is very compact. Working well, fast charging.

Voice quality during calls is rather inconsistent. I can't figure out what exactly is going on, but sometimes the receiving end has zero issues and sometimes pretty bad. I think if you are using both headphones the sound is better than just using one of them which is really annoying. They might be able to fix it with some firmware updates but I don't have much hope. 

Sound quality is sublime overall. I am very surprised to be honest. They only thing is, for me personally, I had to use the soundcore app and pick an EQ that brings out the mids a bit more... So I either have it on rock or electronic. The default doesn't do it for me. low end is lush af lol .. punchy but yet not overwhelming, and it stays out of the way for the rest to come trough. 

I have some decent in ear and over the ear equipment and I have to say that if I had to pick a pair for the day, or for travel, I would go for the soundcore. They've done a great job. Dare I say a bit over engineered for the price. 

I saw that there is a firmware update. Hopefully it does something for the voice calls. 

Really curious to see what apple does with the next airpods "pro" or whatever, but for now I will stick with these.


----------



## rage3324

What is the consensus on the new MW07 lineup? I have been holding out on Wireless headphones (mostly because I do not want to purchase airpods) and so far nothing has fit the bill (cough Sony call quality issues)


----------



## BigZ12

d3myz said:


> That's why i'm staying on Mojave for a while. My BT explorer works fine and I haven't seen this talked about on here, but all I have to do to figure out what codec i'm using it play a song and hit option and click on Bluetooth then highlight my device. Is that the same method you are using? I know to force AptX and changed the bit rate of AAC etc. I have to use the BT explorer in the dev tools.


Yes, that's the method I've been using. Both AptX and AAC worked with Mojave, but I got on the Catalina beta train early, and haven't had AptX since...


----------



## tma6 (Oct 21, 2019)

Hey guys, new to posting on this thread, but have been reading it for a while. My MW07+ is coming in tomorrow and I'm going to post a full review after I do some listening and testing for a couple days. I know people have had a tough time connecting to AAC and AptX so I'm going to test that and see if they have fixed this issue. I did e-mail M&D and they stated affirmatively that the MW07+ does support AAC, but we'll see. Also wanted to say this is a great thread and thanks to those who continue to contribute!


----------



## Putshoesonthatmonster

nerdspot said:


> Has anyone had their TRN T200 ship? I bought mine on FastTech and it's been in a "Order Received" status for almost a month now. The ETA for shipping gets pushed by 5-7 days every week and their support ticket system seems abysmal.



I got impatient and after the reviews popped up mentioning background noise I cancelled

https://m.intl.taobao.com/detail/detail.html?id=604024627999&spm=a2141.7631565.banner_21676505910.0

Although reviews are decent, well from what I read with Google translator


----------



## hifi80sman

d3myz said:


> "Do you even bluetooth bruh?"


AHAHAHA!  Too funny.

Seriously, it's like asking an employee at WalMart a question.


go0gle said:


> Liberty 2 pro feedback. Ive had for a week now.
> 
> Source is iPhone xs using neutron with some flac files, also Spotify(high quality) and soundcloud with standard quality because they want money for higher bitrates. in terms of music its been classic rock, alternative, rap, and lots of techno. Oh, and that new tool album has been on repeat last few days.
> 
> ...


Oh, nice.  Updating the Liberty 2 and Pros as we speak.  Let's see if the hissing is gone...


----------



## hifi80sman

BigZ12 said:


> Yes, that's the method I've been using. Both AptX and AAC worked with Mojave, but I got on the Catalina beta train early, and haven't had AptX since...


I find this odd, as Qualcomm and Apple have settled their lawsuit.  Maybe Apple is working on their lossless codec...


----------



## d3myz

go0gle said:


> Liberty 2 pro feedback. Ive had for a week now.
> 
> Source is iPhone xs using neutron with some flac files, also Spotify(high quality) and soundcloud with standard quality because they want money for higher bitrates. in terms of music its been classic rock, alternative, rap, and lots of techno. Oh, and that new tool album has been on repeat last few days.
> 
> ...


I'm on Version 1.09 for the L2pro. which is the one mine came with. Is there a newer one than that? I was also told by Anker support the new models will be out in 2-3 weeks for those wishing to exchange due to hissing and bad call quality.


----------



## gibletzor (Oct 21, 2019)

actorlife said:


> Hello Ladies and Gents. Any good bargains? Who has the most TWS now? Got a photo spread on the ways. Stay tuned.


Welcome back!  You have a bit of catching up to do!


----------



## mattedialdoc

d3myz said:


> I'm on Version 1.09 for the L2pro. which is the one mine came with. Is there a newer one than that? I was also told by Anker support the new models will be out in 2-3 weeks for those wishing to exchange due to hissing and bad call quality.



I’m trying to decide if I should wait for the replacement units coming in “2-3 wks” or just do a return. But I bought at $99 so perhaps I should wait?
Yes, I have the hisses and pops.


----------



## hifi80sman

d3myz said:


> I'm on Version 1.09 for the L2pro. which is the one mine came with. Is there a newer one than that? I was also told by Anker support the new models will be out in 2-3 weeks for those wishing to exchange due to hissing and bad call quality.


I just tried to update the L2Pro and it says 1.09 is up to date.

However, the L2 Standard was able to be updated to 1.15.

UPDATE:  I did another comparison of the hissing (just turn the volume down to 0 and play a track to just hear pure hiss) and the L2 Standard hissing is 50% less.  Originally, I stated 25%, but it's actually about half.


----------



## hifi80sman

mattedialdoc said:


> I’m trying to decide if I should wait for the replacement units coming in “2-3 wks” or just do a return. But I bought at $99 so perhaps I should wait?
> Yes, I have the hisses and pops.


If you paid $99, then it may be worth the waiting game.  Since I paid $149 and the L2 Standard are so close, I'm just parlaying the $50 into another pair of TWS.


----------



## FoolsVerse

Any news on shingling mtw100 vs jabras elite 65t???


----------



## HiFlight

nerdspot said:


> Has anyone had their TRN T200 ship? I bought mine on FastTech and it's been in a "Order Received" status for almost a month now. The ETA for shipping gets pushed by 5-7 days every week and their support ticket system seems abysmal.


Mine have arrived in the states a couple of days ago, so I should be receiving them very shortly. I ordered mine from Aliexpress.


----------



## CocaCola15 (Oct 21, 2019)

hifi80sman said:


> I actually picked up the Liberty 2 from Amazon, but went to WalMart today and they also had them in stock.
> 
> As far as sound, they are similar to the Pros but the bass on the Liberty 2 is a bit deeper & bigger, but less refined. The highs are crisp, yet lack the precision of the Pros.  Overall, I think the sound on the Liberty 2 is more exciting, but less defined. There is also a hiss on the Liberty 2,  it it’s not as bad as the Pro.  The case on the Liberty 2 does not have wireless charging, and even though it’s glossy, it has a sparkle/metallic finish, so it still looks good.
> 
> ...


Thanks for that input. I have the LP2 in now, in the house, music paused and no hiss. Silence. So that strange issue persists for some, not all owners. I guess my ears could be so bad I would not hear any hiss, but that doesn't make sense. Just strange. Having never owned the Liberty Pro, I think I am going to keep the LP2, I tuned them to my preferences using the EQ on Kaiser Audio. And I even forgot to turn on the Anker App. Don't need it, unless I want to change functions. Anyway, those Soundpeats look interesting. Uh-Oh.

Update:
Right after posting, I turned on the app and got a FW update, just says "fix bugs." Hmmm. It's at 38% and loading. Guess it will get rid of my non-existent hiss, if nothing else! Anyway, didn't know it had bugs, but bugs begone.

One weird thing about those DD Soundpeats, the only reviews on Amazon (19 right now) all occurred in September, none in October. All 5 stars, to the person. Wonder why no one bothered to review them in October yet? All say verified purchase, just an odd pattern. Oh, and many of them are bunched on the same dates, especially 9/3, 9/13, 9/16 and 9/23. Just find that odd. Probably means nothing.


----------



## hifi80sman

CocaCola15 said:


> Thanks for that input. I have the LP2 in now, in the house, music paused and no hiss. Silence. So that strange issue persists. I guess my ears could be so bad I would not hear any hiss, but that doesn't make sense. Just strange. Having never owned the Liberty Pro, I think I am going to keep the LP2, I tuned them to my preferences using the EQ on Kaiser Audio. And I even forgot to turn on the Anker App. Don't need it, unless I want to change functions. Anyway, those Soundpeats look interesting. Uh-Oh.


Yeah, the LP2 are great.  If I got the Pros for $99, I may play the waiting game.  I even sent them a message to see if they would discount/exchange for the new version, but they were only willing to give me 15% off.  Blah.


----------



## CocaCola15 (Oct 21, 2019)

go0gle said:


> Liberty 2 pro feedback. Ive had for a week now.
> 
> Source is iPhone xs using neutron with some flac files, also Spotify(high quality) and soundcloud with standard quality because they want money for higher bitrates. in terms of music its been classic rock, alternative, rap, and lots of techno. Oh, and that new tool album has been on repeat last few days.
> 
> ...


Too bad you don't have an onboard EQ. If you have a spare $10, try the Kaiser Audio app in the Apple app store. I bought it a long time ago (I know, I sound like a shill. I'm not. I just love having the flexibility to shape sound. You purists can stop screaming at me now. It offers a 10- and 20-band professional equalizer. Perfect way to boost those mids, which I did with mine and created a custom EQ for the LP2, which I do for almost all my phones. The Blon 03 doesn't need any EQ with my phone (wired $40 giant crusher).


----------



## CocaCola15

hifi80sman said:


> Yeah, the LP2 are great.  If I got the Pros for $99, I may play the waiting game.  I even sent them a message to see if they would discount/exchange for the new version, but they were only willing to give me 15% off.  Blah.


That's unfair! You are such a good customer. They do look a bit silly, but I don't care. Between the Melomania 1 and the LP2, I know what to be on Halloween. Hint: He's re-animated dead human tissue.


----------



## hifi80sman

CocaCola15 said:


> Too bad you don't have an onboard EQ. If you have a spare $10, try the Kaiser Audio app in the Apple app store. I bought it a long time ago (I know, I sound like a shill. I'm not. I just love having the flexibility to shape sound. You purists can stop screaming at me now. It offers a 10- and 20-band professional equalizer. Perfect way to boost those mids, which I did with mine and created a custom EQ for the LP2, which I do for almost all my phones. The Blon 03 doesn't need any EQ with my phone (wired $40 giant crusher).


Is it a universal EQ that can adjust audio streaming played from Spotify, etc?


----------



## CocaCola15

Latest LP2 firmware is 1.65, mine just updated from 1.15, which is what came on it.


----------



## CocaCola15

hifi80sman said:


> Is it a universal EQ that can adjust audio streaming played from Spotify, etc?


No, sadly, only onboard tracks. I have Amazon Music (the new HD version in fact) and when I use that, which is not that often with BT phones, no EQ. I don't think Amazon HD Music offers an EQ, so I am stuck with the one that came with the LP2. The "personalized" gizmo on the LP2 didn't do it for me. Need to try it again, I guess.

I have 13,000 tracks on my phone, so I use those when I am out and about, haha. In that sense, I am sort of a purist. I mean, I have tons of music I've collected I haven't even heard yet.


----------



## Rob E.

CocaCola15 said:


> ...One weird thing about those DD Soundpeats, the only reviews on Amazon (19 right now) all occurred in September, none in October. All 5 stars, to the person. Wonder why no one bothered to review them in October yet? All say verified purchase, just an odd pattern. Oh, and many of them are bunched on the same dates, especially 9/3, 9/13, 9/16 and 9/23. Just find that odd. *Probably means nothing*.



Reviewmeta. Maybe it means something.


----------



## CocaCola15

Seems legit. Good site. Thanks!


----------



## hifi80sman

CocaCola15 said:


> Latest LP2 firmware is 1.65, mine just updated from 1.15, which is what came on it.


Weird.  I was on 1.09 and now I'm 1.15, but it says I'm up to date.  :|

Are you in the US?  Just wondering if it may be region dependent.


----------



## CocaCola15 (Oct 21, 2019)

In the good old USA, Philly to be exact. That is truly strange. Could be a controlled geographic rollout, which is what Directv does now and then. But it makes no sense that yours is up to date on the version that came with mine. I guess Anker doesn't do FW updates very often?

Funny thing is, Stop Making Sense sounds exactly the same with 1.15 and 1.65, so no idea what bugs they were referring to. Pretty minimalist approach to a FW update, "fixing bugs."


----------



## hifi80sman

CocaCola15 said:


> One weird thing about those DD Soundpeats, the only reviews on Amazon (19 right now) all occurred in September, none in October. All 5 stars, to the person. Wonder why no one bothered to review them in October yet? All say verified purchase, just an odd pattern. Oh, and many of them are bunched on the same dates, especially 9/3, 9/13, 9/16 and 9/23. Just find that odd. Probably means nothing.


I always take Amazon reviews with a grain of salt anyway, _*especially *_Chi-Fi.  Most of the options that mean anything are on here.  Some people are "blown away" by this or that, but if they've only used stock earbuds, etc., well of course.  Most of us on here have mid-to-high-end setups, even if we're on a wireless addiction.  All about context!


----------



## Peddler

geoxile said:


> I'm finding I'm having a hard time getting a good fit too. The default tips are the right width but they're so long it feels like they're hanging out of my ears rather than resting along whatever the outer flanges of the ear are called. Are you using the stock tips? Besides the fit they're great especially at a mere $120. The compact case is probably my favorite feature though



I also struggled to get a good fit - tried many different tips but they tend to fall off too easily. In the end I removed the 'sports cover' and just went with the default tips - I tend to moisten them slightly and give them a good jiggle around to get the fit nice and deep but I also pull up on both ears to equalise the pressure that's built up from insertion. Once I get a good seal and have equalised the pressure, they sound utterly amazing.


----------



## CocaCola15

hifi80sman said:


> I always take Amazon reviews with a grain of salt anyway, _*especially *_Chi-Fi.  Most of the options that mean anything are on here.  Some people are "blown away" by this or that, but if they've only used stock earbuds, etc., well of course.  Most of us on here have mid-to-high-end setups, even if we're on a wireless addiction.  All about context!


Good points.


----------



## FoolsVerse

NVM I bit the bullet for the Jabra 65t I hope I like them. Guess I will just do my own research and stay a lurker. 

Thanks!


----------



## hifi80sman

FoolsVerse said:


> NVM I bit the bullet for the Jabra 65t I hope I like them. Guess I will just do my own research and stay a lurker.
> 
> Thanks!


There's actually a lot of feedback on the 65t in this thread, you just need to search.  

They're good, great for calls, fit most people well, and physical controls are decent.  The one big gripe is the sound is just "OK" and there have been reports of one side becoming softer in volume over time.


----------



## rhsauer

tma6 said:


> Hey guys, new to posting on this thread, but have been reading it for a while. My MW07+ is coming in tomorrow and I'm going to post a full review after I do some listening and testing for a couple days. I know people have had a tough time connecting to AAC and AptX so I'm going to test that and see if they have fixed this issue. I did e-mail M&D and they stated affirmatively that the MW07+ does support AAC, but we'll see. Also wanted to say this is a great thread and thanks to those who continue to contribute!



Will be very happy if someone finds a way to activate AAC on these!


----------



## FoolsVerse

hifi80sman said:


> There's actually a lot of feedback on the 65t in this thread, you just need to search.
> 
> They're good, great for calls, fit most people well, and physical controls are decent.  The one big gripe is the sound is just "OK" and there have been reports of one side becoming softer in volume over time.



Yea that's why I was trying to see how they compared too shenling mtw100 in terms of sound. I'm stuck on a budget and wanted to know since I haven't seen any comparisons. Shinling in the forum here was said to be really good for the budget but Jabra had alot of reviews that even compared to Sennheiser (that surprised me). But yea the Jabra was the same price in refurb so yea.


----------



## Luchyres

hifi80sman said:


> En Route
> 
> $47.99 + $5.00 coupon.  Tried to find a promo code, but no luck.  One of the speakers is Beryllium, so let's hope these sound better than the traditional dual DD setup!



I must admit dual dynamic driver is tickling my fancy - keep us posted!

 I missed my Liberty 2 delivery for my work trip


----------



## Kinosan000

A new challenger to the SONY WF-1000XM3 has just (a few days ago) been announced by 1MORE

The 1MORE EDH9001TA, a Dual Driver (1 Dynamic & 1 Armature) True Wireless with TWS+ and ANC

A true successor to their current "Stylish" True Wireless (basically the shape and look of the buds are identical).

I currently own the "Stylish" (E1026BT-I), which I like for the balanced profile without excessive Base, so very much looking forward to the upgrades

Specs:
Model no. EDH9001TA
Ear bud weight: 7.9g (per side), 79.2g total w. charging case
Drivers: 1 x 10mm Titanium Lined Dynamic + 1 x 1MORE STA-1 A5C22 Armature
Microphone: Qualcomm CVC8.0 Dual noise cancelling
BT version: 5.0
Codec: AptX, AAC (up to 24bit)
Playtime per charge: 6hr (5hr w. ANC on)
Total play time: 22hr
Bud Battery Capacity: 38mAh
Case Battery Capacity: 410mAh
Charge Connection: USB-C / Qi Wireless
Assistant: Google / Siri / Xiao Ai

Can find more information and pictures at TaoBao (Tmall):
https://1more.world.tmall.com/shop/...14.4.223013d8brepHZ&user_number_id=1918358169

Retail price RMB1299 (USD185), available from mid November


----------



## hifi80sman

Luchyres said:


> I must admit dual dynamic driver is tickling my fancy - keep us posted!
> 
> I missed my Liberty 2 delivery for my work trip


So far, they sound...pretty bad.

- Hollow
- Muffled
- Frequency imbalance (vocals recessed more on left side).
- Disjointed, as if some frequencies (mids & highs) are missing.

It's a very weird sound.  Kind of sounds a bit like you're in a cave.  No AAC support, just aptX, but it doesn't matter, they sound like trash.


----------



## Bhelpoori

hifi80sman said:


> So far, they sound...pretty bad.
> 
> - Hollow
> - Muffled
> ...


Is it my imagination or do they look like Syllable S101s with wings?


----------



## hifi80sman

Bhelpoori said:


> Is it my imagination or do they look like Syllable S101s with wings?


Dual DD like the Syllable and BlitzWolf, but they sound nothing like them.  They also fit poorly and do not sit in your ear well.  Avoid these.  Trash.


----------



## chinmie

hifi80sman said:


> So far, they sound...pretty bad.
> 
> - Hollow
> - Muffled
> ...



that's a darn shame... it looks really cool


----------



## webvan

hifi80sman said:


> Dual DD like the Syllable and BlitzWolf, but they sound nothing like them.  They also fit poorly and do not sit in your ear well.  Avoid these.  Trash.


Well that takes care of it, thanks for the report. 
Might try the LP2 at some point, how do you find their passive isolation compared to say the WF-1000Xm3s?


----------



## hifi80sman

webvan said:


> Well that takes care of it, thanks for the report.
> Might try the LP2 at some point, how do you find their passive isolation compared to say the WF-1000Xm3s?


The passive isolation is not that good.  I would not recommend the LP2 or LP2 Pro for isolation.


----------



## webvan

Thanks, that's too bad, I was hoping the wing would help with that by keeping it pressed again the ear canal. The UFO gave me good isolation except in would not stay in my ear canal/ear, regardless of the tips. Back to the 65t and Havit G1 now and they're not too bad for isolation, SQ is not that good though. Wonder what the best Isolation/SQ is at this point, anyone ?


----------



## Francesco Montanari

Hi guys, I'm a silent addicted from Italy with almost 10 TWS in my bag 

I'm really triggered by new Vivo TWS with QCC 5126 chip... anybody else?


----------



## clerkpalmer

hifi80sman said:


> The passive isolation is not that good.  I would not recommend the LP2 or LP2 Pro for isolation.



Completely agree with this.  Tried using them on my bike at it was awful.


----------



## BobJS

hifi80sman said:


> The passive isolation is not that good.  I would not recommend the LP2 or LP2 Pro for isolation.


Agreed.


----------



## carloshacecosas

Anyone using the Galaxy Buds with an iPhone can speak about the stock EQ? Seems like they would be perfect for me if I was an Android user and could take advantage of their EQ app, as I think it applies it on their DSP and not directly on the phone. My current wired daily-drivers are the MH755 and the Tin Audio T2.

Other options I'm considering are the Cambridge Audio Melomania 1 (cons being their weird shape and microUSB charging) and the Shanling MTW100 (which I think still haven't been reviewed here). I don't mind paying between 150-250€, but want something solid that I don't feel like upgrading soon.


----------



## BobJS

Steel Blue MW07 Plus on the truck for delivery today!


----------



## Bartig

hifi80sman said:


> So far, they sound...pretty bad.
> 
> - Hollow
> - Muffled
> ...


Thanks for this. I’m kind of glad. That’s one buy saved.

Idea so far: if SoundPEATS borrows a design and puts their brand on it, it’s mostly good. If they come up with something of their own, you should be careful.


----------



## Caipirina

Francesco Montanari said:


> Hi guys, I'm a silent addicted from Italy with almost 10 TWS in my bag
> 
> I'm really triggered by new Vivo TWS with QCC 5126 chip... anybody else?



Saw them and was also very curious when I read the specs ... but I am not a fan of the stem-based design a la AirPods ... can't get a decent fit 

Also still waiting for a reviews saying that ANC in TWS has reached QC20 levels ...


----------



## Francesco Montanari

Me too but I find them confortable at home or to work at PC where I need to listen also to other people. 
Just an advice for everybody: Stay away from Xiaomi Air 2, they are crap... 50$ directly in the trash bin


----------



## bronco1015

just bought the Shanling MTW100BA For anyone in the states, you can buy them from music Tech, that's a dealer i was refered to by a rep from Shanling when i messaged them 10 days ago asking about where to buy from the states. I'd never heard of them before. They have a 30 day return policy as well and except Amazon Pay and Paypal. BA version is $89 and they had both Black and Red in stock, as well as the white DD version for $79.


----------



## tma6

BobJS said:


> Steel Blue MW07 Plus on the truck for delivery today!



Me too!! I’m hyped


----------



## vladzakhar

Shanling MTW100BA is my current favorite TWS for now. 

Like: 
The sound is natural and balanced, perfect mids and extended highs. The bass is little shy but can be EQ to desired level.
Fit is perfect, small and light. Comfortable to sleep with. No fatigue after many hours of use.
Isolation is good. (not with the stock tips)
Battery life is ok (about 6 hours). 
Phone calls: no complains.
Light speed connection to my phone.
Wireless charging.

Don't like:
The case cover is flimsy and hard to open.
The space for tips in the case is small, can't fit larger tips then charging.
Touch control is hit or miss.
No power off button when not in the case. The buds are draining the battery if not playing and not in the case (constantly connected to bluetooth).
No proper manual. Don't know how to reset.
No volume control.

I would pay double if Shanling will fix all of the above in the their next generation buds.


----------



## CocaCola15

hifi80sman said:


> So far, they sound...pretty bad.
> 
> - Hollow
> - Muffled
> ...


Wow, and all 5-star reviews on Amazon. Goes to validate your view about Amazon feedback, though now and then someone with credibility posts there.


----------



## CocaCola15

carloshacecosas said:


> Anyone using the Galaxy Buds with an iPhone can speak about the stock EQ? Seems like they would be perfect for me if I was an Android user and could take advantage of their EQ app, as I think it applies it on their DSP and not directly on the phone. My current wired daily-drivers are the MH755 and the Tin Audio T2.
> 
> Other options I'm considering are the Cambridge Audio Melomania 1 (cons being their weird shape and microUSB charging) and the Shanling MTW100 (which I think still haven't been reviewed here). I don't mind paying between 150-250€, but want something solid that I don't feel like upgrading soon.


Well, I am an M1 owner and true believer, though not everyone here would agree. Caveat (at least for me and a couple of other M1 owners I know) is with the stock silicone tips: not a fan, but with the included foam tips, a fan. Having said that, the included foam tips are smallish so if your ear canals are larger than average, could be a deal breaker. Cambridge has created a larger pair, but not available for sale that I can tell. Plus, they only sell the original sized foam tips in the UK, so a friend over there is sending me a 10-pack (5 pair) for $17 shipped. 

Anyway, I really love the M1 sound signature. I am not alone, but they don't get the same praise hereabouts, and they are not in the budget price range. Another pro-M1 owner here is Digdub, so you can search for those posts as well.

The charging thing not a big deal for me. As for the "look" yes they do stick out, but I also don't care about that. I did have to send back my first pair, which had dropouts, but their customer service in the US is very very good. In fact, they are sending me 4 pair of foam tips (3 med, 1 large) gratis because I could not buy them here.


----------



## DigDub

Yes I'm a fan of the melomania 1 as well. A very smooth sound signature, perfect buttons, crazy long battery life. The charging case is tiny which makes it very portable.


----------



## AtariPrime

DigDub said:


> Yes I'm a fan of the melomania 1 as well. A very smooth sound signature, perfect buttons, crazy long battery life. The charging case is tiny which makes it very portable.



Sound signature wise I'm sure they are great, however 1) you are going to look like Frankenstein walking around in them, and 2) every time you tell someone the name of them they are going to apologize because they think you have cancer.


----------



## Blueshound24

bronco1015 said:


> just bought the Shanling MTW100BA For anyone in the states, you can buy them from music Tech, that's a dealer i was refered to by a rep from Shanling when i messaged them 10 days ago asking about where to buy from the states. I'd never heard of them before. They have a 30 day return policy as well and except Amazon Pay and Paypal. BA version is $89 and they had both Black and Red in stock, as well as the white DD version for $79.




Darn! I wish I would've known MusicTeck had them before I ordered the MTW from Aliexpress.  I ordered them on Oct 6th and tracking still shows them somewhere in China. 

I bought my Unique Melody IEM's from MusicTeck and they are awesome to deal with!


----------



## bronco1015

Blueshound24 said:


> Darn! I wish I would've known MusicTeck had them before I ordered the MTW from Aliexpress.  I ordered them on Oct 6th and tracking still shows them somewhere in China.
> 
> I bought my Unique Melody IEM's from MusicTeck and they are awesome to deal with!


good to know about musictech, Hope your shanling's arrive soon and not destroyed. Never ordered off of ali. ordered stuff off of wish before, but even then only a few things.


----------



## Blueshound24

bronco1015 said:


> good to know about musictech, Hope your shanling's arrive soon and not destroyed. Never ordered off of ali. ordered stuff off of wish before, but even then only a few things.



Thanks. Musicteck always has decent sales on high end audio gear as well. 

Did they give you an ETA?


----------



## geoxile

Peddler said:


> I also struggled to get a good fit - tried many different tips but they tend to fall off too easily. In the end I removed the 'sports cover' and just went with the default tips - I tend to moisten them slightly and give them a good jiggle around to get the fit nice and deep but I also pull up on both ears to equalise the pressure that's built up from insertion. Once I get a good seal and have equalised the pressure, they sound utterly amazing.


I'm actually liking the sports covers along with the large tips. I usually use medium but these are so thin and flexible the large tips dont disturb my ears and makes for a good seal.

Now that said... I'm only getting about 5 hours of battery life from them, namely the left unit, which is disappointing. I figure they're defaulting to a primary/secondary connection because I see the right unit has more 50% higher battery left than the left unit. How did you pair yours in TWS+ mode to have each one connect directly to the source? I'm using a galaxy s9 primarily so I'm a little surprised it's not working out of the box. Either that or my left unit is defective


----------



## hifi80sman

BobJS said:


> Steel Blue MW07 Plus on the truck for delivery today!


AAC or no AAC, THAT is the question!


----------



## AtariPrime

Here's another sporty option on the market.  Seems to be a relatively small company but has found their niche in the crossfit industry.  ESC Sounds is the name.  The model is the Series 2.  They ar relatively small and apparently good for sports.  

A few specs:

Battery: 4 hrs.
Extra in Case: 8 hrs.
Rating: IP4
Price: 116.99 (odd price)
Sound: Emphasis on bass

Overall, I don't think I would recommend these.  They are very similar to the Urbanista Athens but maybe a little larger and only get half the battery life and have a worse IP rating.  The Athens retails for $129, which is only slightly higher so I see little reason to get these other than the Athens are untested thus far.

Regardless, here's a quick review of them if interested.


----------



## hifi80sman

carloshacecosas said:


> Anyone using the Galaxy Buds with an iPhone can speak about the stock EQ? Seems like they would be perfect for me if I was an Android user and could take advantage of their EQ app, as I think it applies it on their DSP and not directly on the phone. My current wired daily-drivers are the MH755 and the Tin Audio T2.


Galaxy Buds on iPhone are good.  They have AAC and have a nice, clean presentation.  Although I prefer the "Excited" EQ or whatever it was when playing from my Galaxy s8, since my main phone is my iPhone, I enjoyed listening to them stock as well.  The problem I ran into, which sounds like a known issue, is one earbud began to sound softer over time, so one earbud was always louder than the other.  I ended up returning them.


----------



## Bartig

carloshacecosas said:


> Anyone using the Galaxy Buds with an iPhone can speak about the stock EQ? Seems like they would be perfect for me if I was an Android user and could take advantage of their EQ app, as I think it applies it on their DSP and not directly on the phone. My current wired daily-drivers are the MH755 and the Tin Audio T2.
> 
> Other options I'm considering are the Cambridge Audio Melomania 1 (cons being their weird shape and microUSB charging) and the Shanling MTW100 (which I think still haven't been reviewed here). I don't mind paying between 150-250€, but want something solid that I don't feel like upgrading soon.


I have my Shanling review in my signature. It’s awesome. Like the Galaxy Buds, but with a bigger soundstage, better instrument placement and more natural vocals.


----------



## vstolpner

Bartig said:


> I have my Shanling review in my signature. It’s awesome. Like the Galaxy Buds, but with a bigger soundstage, better instrument placement and more natural vocals.



Ditto - I love my Shanling's as well (if my previous posts haven't been obvious to that fact)


----------



## webvan (Oct 22, 2019)

AtariPrime said:


> Sound signature wise I'm sure they are great, however 1) you are going to look like Frankenstein walking around in them, and 2) every time you tell someone the name of them they are going to apologize because they think you have cancer.



Good to hear ? How's the isolation ? According to Rtings.com they're among the best !


----------



## Grayson73

Slater said:


> But others have said theirs sound exactly the same. The difference could be anything from eartips to manufacturing variation.
> 
> So who is right?



I used the same eartips, so maybe manufacturing variation or multiple versions of either the Anbes or the SSK.


----------



## Grayson73

Saw this on SD.  Anker Soundcore Life P2 44.99.
https://www.amazon.com/Soundcore-Microphones-Reduction-Waterproof-Earphones/dp/B07SJR6HL3


----------



## Grayson73 (Oct 22, 2019)

This is maddening.  Does anyone else have besides Caipirina and d3myz have both the SSK and Anbes 359?  I'm considering getting a 3rd one so that I know which one is the true one.  The ones I have are not identical.


----------



## rage3324

hifi80sman said:


> AAC or no AAC, THAT is the question!



Agreed. If it has AAC, I am purchasing


----------



## tma6

Been using the MW07+ for a couple hours now. First impressions are great (as they were with the original version). The sound on these is just so addicting and very cool to hear after using the Lypertek Tevi for a while. Still going to hold off on a full review until I've had a couple days to test it and compare it to some other IEMs and TWS I have. Also gotta find a Mac to test out whether AAC is being used or not (since I have a Windows comp and an iPhone, neither of which tell you), though I'm not noticing any issues with sound quality after using it with my phone and computer.


----------



## hifi80sman

tma6 said:


> Been using the MW07+ for a couple hours now. First impressions are great (as they were with the original version). The sound on these is just so addicting and very cool to hear after using the Lypertek Tevi for a while. Still going to hold off on a full review until I've had a couple days to test it and compare it to some other IEMs and TWS I have. Also gotta find a Mac to test out whether AAC is being used or not (since I have a Windows comp and an iPhone, neither of which tell you), though I'm not noticing any issues with sound quality after using it with my phone and computer.


How's the ANC?  I understand it's on the mild side.


----------



## tma6 (Oct 22, 2019)

hifi80sman said:


> How's the ANC?  I understand it's on the mild side.



It's definitely on the mild side, but I'm honestly glad it's there. There was a noticeable difference switching it on and off while walking around NYC. It's not going to completely drown out louder noises like sirens or honks, but definitely helped with cars and trucks driving by, people talking around you, and coffee shop noise. Also both the ANC and Ambient Listening mode barely affect the sound quality, which is really nice.


----------



## d3myz

Grayson73 said:


> This is maddening.  Does anyone else have besides Caipirina and d3myz have both the SSK and Anbes 359?  I'm considering getting a 3rd one so that I know which one is the true one.  The ones I have are not identical.


Honestly, my SSK's don't sound quite like the 359's. The SSK has a little cleaner high end and less bass, but they are very close.


----------



## d3myz

mattedialdoc said:


> I’m trying to decide if I should wait for the replacement units coming in “2-3 wks” or just do a return. But I bought at $99 so perhaps I should wait?
> Yes, I have the hisses and pops.


I think waiting is a good idea. I'm going to swap mine out because my mic SUUUUCKS!


----------



## ceeloChamp

Speaking of wireless, I just got a iFi xDSD exclusively to stream Tidal/Qobuz from my computer/phone to nice headphones...it works like a dream. The SQ is amazingly good. I am so happy to say that I no longer feel the need to carry a DAP!


----------



## go0gle

Just wanted to mention the Bluetooth range, I am guessing this is now standard for most 5.0 devices, but the range and connection with my xs has been great. Much better than I expected. 

I do have a silly question tho, what's the max bitrate transfer on bt 5.0 ? The spec sheets says ~352kbps , so would that make listening to flac files redundant ? Sticking to 320 mp3 the better option ? 

The flacs to sound amazing tho  



CocaCola15 said:


> Too bad you don't have an onboard EQ. If you have a spare $10, try the Kaiser Audio app in the Apple app store. I bought it a long time ago (I know, I sound like a shill. I'm not. I just love having the flexibility to shape sound. You purists can stop screaming at me now. It offers a 10- and 20-band professional equalizer. Perfect way to boost those mids, which I did with mine and created a custom EQ for the LP2, which I do for almost all my phones. The Blon 03 doesn't need any EQ with my phone (wired $40 giant crusher).



I will give Kaiser audio a go, but I don't mind the built in EQs in the soundcore app. Perhaps they will add manual ones inside the app with an update.. 




d3myz said:


> I'm on Version 1.09 for the L2pro. which is the one mine came with. Is there a newer one than that? I was also told by Anker support the new models will be out in 2-3 weeks for those wishing to exchange due to hissing and bad call quality.



yes, I got 1.15 yesterday.. not sure if it did anything, but I did have a 40 min voice call today and the other party said I was crystal clear so I dunno. I was using both buds. 
​


hifi80sman said:


> Oh, nice.  Updating the Liberty 2 and Pros as we speak.  Let's see if the hissing is gone...



Its there I think, doesn't really bother me. Not sure if we are talking about the same thing.


----------



## jasaero

Anyone ever had any IEMs from china come to USA through Yanwen Logistics?  Seems it will get handed to USPS after it's out of customs, but has listed as being in customs since like the 13th.  No clue how long this normally takes now or if this Yanwen is reliable in general?  Waiting on these Shanling MTW100's is getting old!  Haha.


----------



## Caipirina (Oct 22, 2019)

Grayson73 said:


> This is maddening.  Does anyone else have besides Caipirina and d3myz have both the SSK and Anbes 359?  I'm considering getting a 3rd one so that I know which one is the true one.  The ones I have are not identical.


Getting more TWS = soothing the soul!

I still think mine sound the same (anbes / ssk) ... but I wouldn't say I have the most analytical ears ... 

Totally unrelated ... dug up my only pair of bone conducting BT .. now, here's a technology I am glad I did not follow into the rabbit hole  Works nice for pling pling piano muzak though   Anyone else tried those?


----------



## chinmie

hifi80sman said:


> Galaxy Buds on iPhone are good.  They have AAC and have a nice, clean presentation.  Although I prefer the "Excited" EQ or whatever it was when playing from my Galaxy s8, since my main phone is my iPhone, I enjoyed listening to them stock as well.  The problem I ran into, which sounds like a known issue, is one earbud began to sound softer over time, so one earbud was always louder than the other.  I ended up returning them.



how long before your unit exhibit those imbalances? does it caused by physical failure or software issues? mine's luckily is still fine, just want to know should i still worry or the wave had already passed. i like the galaxy buds so much that I prefer using it with ambience modeon  in my car instead of using the car sound system.. and my car's sound system is not shabby to begin with.


----------



## DigDub

AtariPrime said:


> Sound signature wise I'm sure they are great, however 1) you are going to look like Frankenstein walking around in them, and 2) every time you tell someone the name of them they are going to apologize because they think you have cancer.


Actually they are pretty low profile even though they are bullet shaped. It protrudes about the same as my galaxy buds which doesn't protrude much too.


----------



## hifi80sman

chinmie said:


> how long before your unit exhibit those imbalances? does it caused by physical failure or software issues? mine's luckily is still fine, just want to know should i still worry or the wave had already passed. i like the galaxy buds so much that I prefer using it with ambience modeon  in my car instead of using the car sound system.. and my car's sound system is not shabby to begin with.


It happened at around the 2 week mark.  Seems there are some bad unit floating around, so it may just be limited to certain build runs that may have used a bad battery, etc.  If you've had yours for a while, then you're probably in the clear.


----------



## rhsauer (Oct 22, 2019)

d3myz said:


> I think waiting is a good idea. I'm going to swap mine out because my mic SUUUUCKS!



Those of you having mic problems with the L2P, please try deleting the app (after setting the controls and equalizer as you’d like) and see if the mic quality improves.  I was having bad call quality, bad voice memo quality and random Bluetooth disconnections when using the mic, and deleting the app seems to have helped.



hifi80sman said:


> AAC or no AAC, THAT is the question!



After an exchange of several emails with M&D support, I just got an email from them stating “I have confirmed the MW07 Plus does not support AAC at this time.”  Sorry to be the bearer of bad news. I suppose the words “at this time” allows some hope that they will support AAC in the future.


----------



## clerkpalmer

https://www.rakuten.com/shop/jabra/...4Ww&siteID=0JlRymcP1YU-n3JPRLk0peJ23Xnb1Yd4Ww

67 bucks for the elite active isn't too bad.


----------



## chinmie

Caipirina said:


> Getting more TWS = soothing the soul!



yes! new TWS is much more exciting than getting a new wired ones. there's that added "new toy" feeling to it


----------



## Slater (Oct 23, 2019)

Caipirina said:


> Totally unrelated ... dug up my only pair of bone conducting BT .. now, here's a technology I am glad I did not follow into the rabbit hole  Works nice for pling pling piano muzak though   Anyone else tried those?



I own what is widely accepted as the best bone conduction headphone - the Aftershokz Titanium (https://www.amazon.com/dp/B018XNGQOE).

It leaves a *lot* to be desired, although it is head and shoulders above every other bone conduction headphone I’ve ever tried.


----------



## LordToneeus

rhsauer said:


> Those of you having mic problems with the L2P, please try deleting the app (after setting the controls and equalizer as you’d like) and see if the mic quality improves.  I was having bad call quality, bad voice memo quality and random Bluetooth disconnections when using the mic, and deleting the app seems to have helped.
> 
> 
> 
> After an exchange of several emails with M&D support, I just got an email from them stating “I have confirmed the MW07 Plus does not support AAC at this time.”  Sorry to be the bearer of bad news. I suppose the words “at this time” allows some hope that they will support AAC in the future.



What in the wild wild world of sports is a’ goin on here!? Is AAC support something that can be added in a firmware update?


----------



## tma6 (Oct 22, 2019)

Damn that's not great at all. I've been listening to them and the sound quality still sounds great to my ears, but this is obviously unideal. Did they say if they would/when they might support it?


----------



## clerkpalmer

Wow. Double wow. Not aware of any way to flash update the mw07 firmware so this is likely permanent.


----------



## georgelai57

Maybe it should be renamed the MW07minus.


----------



## rhsauer (Oct 22, 2019)

LordToneeus said:


> What in the wild wild world of sports is a’ goin on here!? Is AAC support something that can be added in a firmware update?



Unfortunately there’s no app for the MW07+, so it will be difficult to update the firmware. M&D could provide an app, or they could provide a computer based update methodology. (The Samsung Galaxy Buds have a computer based way to update firmware — that I think works on both Windows and Mac computers — for people who aren’t using Android based phones.)  Or, I suppose they could just update the earphones in-factory and swap them out. As I’ve said before, I’m not counting on any such solution. My assumption is that what we have is what we’ll get. If they sound great to you via SBC — or if you’re using a phone that supports Apt-x — keep them. I’m going to return them on principle alone, unless they provide an update path quickly. For the price, they should support AAC.


----------



## tma6

rhsauer said:


> Unfortunately there’s no app for the MW07+, so it will be difficult to update the firmware. M&D could provide an app, or they could provide a computer based update methodology. (The Samsung Galaxy Buds have a computer based way to update firmware — that I think works on both Windows and Mac computers — for people who aren’t using Android based phones.)  Or, I suppose they could just update the earphones in-factory and swap them out. As I’ve said before, I’m not counting on any such solution. My assumption is that what we have is what we’ll get. If they sound great to you via SBC — or if you’re using a phone that supports Apt-x — keep them. I’m going to return them on principle alone, unless they provide an update path quickly. For the price, they should support AAC.



I agree with you. Even if they sound good to me that's ridiculous. There are $30 TWS that have AAC support.


----------



## clerkpalmer (Oct 22, 2019)

No aac on mw07 go confirmed via samsung note.  Edit same sublime sound


----------



## Caipirina

Slater said:


> I own what is widely accepted as the best *none* conduction headphone - the Aftershokz Titanium



for a split second I read NOSE conduction and wondered 'oh, wow, what marvel of audio technology did I miss there?'


----------



## albau (Oct 22, 2019)

tma6 said:


> I agree with you. Even if they sound good to me that's ridiculous. There are $30 TWS that have AAC support.


Are there $30 TWS that sound with AAC as good as MW07 with SBC? Can't understand this codec worship. If they sound great to you why would you care what codec is it? MW07 only show to what degree for wireless IEM's good driver and proper accoustic design are more important than the type of codec.


----------



## rhsauer

albau said:


> Are there $30 TWS that sound with AAC as good as MW07 with SBC? Can't understand this codec worship. If they sound great to you why would you care what codec is it? MW07 only show to what degree for wireless IEM's good driver and proper accoustic design are more important than the type of codec.



I haven’t found a $30 IEM that sounds better than the WM07+, but the $149 Liberty 2 Pro sounds better on my iPhone (and costs half what the MW07+ costs). I also don’t want to reward the bad choice not to include the AAC codec. It’s just silly.


----------



## TK33

clerkpalmer said:


> No aac on mw07 go confirmed via samsung note.  Edit same sublime sound



How do you like the MW07 Go otherwise? I stopped by a Best Buy today and saw the black ones were on display and they looked pretty sweet (really like the smaller form factor).  Didn't have any on the shelves yet unfortunately.


----------



## Veyska

Slater said:


> I own what is widely accepted as the best none conduction headphone - the Aftershokz Titanium (https://www.amazon.com/dp/B018XNGQOE).
> 
> It leaves a *lot* to be desired, although it is head and shoulders above every other bone conduction headphone I’ve ever tried.


I tried a pair out for a few days a while back and honestly given the variant nature of their noisemaking and especially given that they're intended for inherently noisy environments wherein you want to be able to hear said environmental noise they're pretty dang good.  I'd still be rocking them except I couldn't get a stable fit—I think the "cable" loop wanted to rest right where my ponytail does—and the "earpieces" would get nudged out of position every time I looked up or down more than just a hair and given the nature of how they make sound that basically meant I couldn't hear them clearly until I returned my head to the level.  Tried the Air and both sizes of Titanium.  Ah well.  Maybe if they come out with an over-the-head form factor...


----------



## tma6

albau said:


> Are there $30 TWS that sound with AAC as good as MW07 with SBC? Can't understand this codec worship. If they sound great to you why would you care what codec is it? MW07 only show to what degree for wireless IEM's good driver and proper accoustic design are more important than the type of codec.



I'm gonna give a full review in a couple days. Definitely not saying they're bad, in fact I find them to sound very good, but I do find it absurd that a $300 pair of TWS doesn't have basic features.


----------



## Blueshound24

bronco1015 said:


> just bought the Shanling MTW100BA For anyone in the states, you can buy them from music Tech, that's a dealer i was refered to by a rep from Shanling when i messaged them 10 days ago asking about where to buy from the states. I'd never heard of them before. They have a 30 day return policy as well and except Amazon Pay and Paypal. BA version is $89 and they had both Black and Red in stock, as well as the white DD version for $79.



Did Musicteck give you an ETA?


----------



## clerkpalmer

TK33 said:


> How do you like the MW07 Go otherwise? I stopped by a Best Buy today and saw the black ones were on display and they looked pretty sweet (really like the smaller form factor).  Didn't have any on the shelves yet unfortunately.



They are significantly smaller and lighter. They are some of the most musical iems I have ever heard.  Still the champs.


----------



## Luchyres

For those of you with MW07 Go/+ - how have you found the overall volume? Mine wasn't particularly loud at full volume and was even worse for calls (max volume - the other caller was still a little faint).


----------



## tma6 (Oct 22, 2019)

Luchyres said:


> For those of you with MW07 Go/+ - how have you found the overall volume? Mine wasn't particularly loud at full volume and was even worse for calls (max volume - the other caller was still a little faint).



Definitely could use a couple notches more on the volume, though for me at like 90% it's as loud as I'd want it for most songs. For calls you gotta raise the volume again as for some reason it starts really low but then that issue was resolved for me. Calls have been amazing so far actually.


----------



## clerkpalmer

tma6 said:


> Definitely could use a couple notches more on the volume, though for me at like 90% it's as loud as I'd want it for most songs. For calls you gotta raise the volume again as for some reason it starts really low but then that issue was resolved for me. Calls have been amazing so far actually.


I must be getting old.  40 percent volume on stepper with fan and it was plenty loud


----------



## hifi80sman

rhsauer said:


> Those of you having mic problems with the L2P, please try deleting the app (after setting the controls and equalizer as you’d like) and see if the mic quality improves.  I was having bad call quality, bad voice memo quality and random Bluetooth disconnections when using the mic, and deleting the app seems to have helped.
> 
> 
> 
> After an exchange of several emails with M&D support, I just got an email from them stating “I have confirmed the MW07 Plus does not support AAC at this time.”  Sorry to be the bearer of bad news. I suppose the words “at this time” allows some hope that they will support AAC in the future.


Oh, wow.  Petty much a killer for Apple users (most people that buy M&D will know about codecs).


----------



## hifi80sman

rhsauer said:


> Unfortunately there’s no app for the MW07+, so it will be difficult to update the firmware. M&D could provide an app, or they could provide a computer based update methodology. (The Samsung Galaxy Buds have a computer based way to update firmware — that I think works on both Windows and Mac computers — for people who aren’t using Android based phones.)  Or, I suppose they could just update the earphones in-factory and swap them out. As I’ve said before, I’m not counting on any such solution. My assumption is that what we have is what we’ll get. If they sound great to you via SBC — or if you’re using a phone that supports Apt-x — keep them. I’m going to return them on principle alone, unless they provide an update path quickly. For the price, they should support AAC.


Do they have multipoint?  That may be a solution if you have an aptX source in addition to an iPhone.  If not, aside from battery, the originals are not too shabby.


----------



## rhsauer

hifi80sman said:


> Do they have multipoint?  That may be a solution if you have an aptX source in addition to an iPhone.  If not, aside from battery, the originals are not too shabby.



The don't have multipoint -- and, even if they did have multipoint, carrying around two devices feels to me like more of a kludge than a solution.  I feel like there are so many quality earphones on the market (or just about to hit the market) that we really shouldn't have to make compromises like that, especially for that price.


----------



## bronco1015

Blueshound24 said:


> Thanks. Musicteck always has decent sales on high end audio gear as well.
> 
> Did they give you an ETA?


Not yet, but I know they got them in stock last week, so at least they have them. not to worried though, 2-day shipping was an option for $9.99, so hoping they get here before i go out of town next Thursday.


----------



## carloshacecosas

For the people with the Shanlings MTW100... how easy is it to re-pair them with different devices? I would be using them with both my iPhone and my iPad (sometimes my laptop too). I can't find the manual online


----------



## BobJS

hifi80sman said:


> AAC or no AAC, THAT is the question!



Codec-wise, these seem to behave the same as the MW07.  That didn't have AAC, did it?

Anyway, on my galaxy, the default is aptx.  When I change the codec in developer mode to AAC, I hear no change in sound.  If I close all apps and check back in developer mode, it indicates I'm still in aptx.  

I DO have an iPad at home, can I use that to test for AAC?


----------



## BobJS

OK,  just tried the MW07+ at the office.  Wow -- I feel like this things were made just for me.  Same great first-in-class sound (sounded even better than the MW07 to me, but I'm undoubtedly playing mind games with myself).

I work in an office environment with an attached manufacturing floor.  The office has a white noise system (sounds like fans) to help with inter-cubicle noise.  I tried enabling the ANC before playing any music and heard the background noise go to zero.  Toggling the ANC with music playing, I couldn't hear any difference in music quality.

A couple of times a day I take a mile-long walk through the manufacturing floor.  The ANC, though mild, definitely reduced or eliminated the background din.  Overall, I'm quite pleased with these.  I can't comment on how these would perform if your source doesn't support aptX, though.


----------



## Peddler

geoxile said:


> I'm actually liking the sports covers along with the large tips. I usually use medium but these are so thin and flexible the large tips dont disturb my ears and makes for a good seal.
> 
> Now that said... I'm only getting about 5 hours of battery life from them, namely the left unit, which is disappointing. I figure they're defaulting to a primary/secondary connection because I see the right unit has more 50% higher battery left than the left unit. How did you pair yours in TWS+ mode to have each one connect directly to the source? I'm using a galaxy s9 primarily so I'm a little surprised it's not working out of the box. Either that or my left unit is defective



I'm using mine paired to a Galaxy Note 8 so I suspect they're only working in master/slave mode. To be honest I've never really worn them long enough for the battery to have run out. I think they claim the battery life on the headphones themselves are treated at 10 hours and the case is rated at 50 hours so yours don't appear to be behaving properly. Perhaps they need a reset?


----------



## Linus Jian (Oct 23, 2019)

clerkpalmer said:


> No aac on mw07 go confirmed via samsung note.  Edit same sublime sound



I thought only iphone users would care about aac support... You have aptx on android...


----------



## clerkpalmer

Linus Jian said:


> I thought only iphone users would care about aac support... You have aptx on android...


I switch frequently.


----------



## WesennTony (Oct 23, 2019)

Actually new mw07 without aac works in my favor on my LG V30 phone, which defaults to AAC when available. Just ordered mw07 go. Almost think about going for Samsung but now happy to stay in LG upgrades with both BT20s and MW07 picking aptX.

I'm also returning the original mw07 from Massdrop. I experienced a lot of dropouts during my visit to China and Sydney, when walking in the streets, making them almost useless. Hope the new version with BT 5.0 can solve this issue.


----------



## hifi80sman

BobJS said:


> Codec-wise, these seem to behave the same as the MW07. That didn't have AAC, did it?


The originals did not advertise AAC, but they do support it.  It also, surprisingly, supports multipoint.  So in situations where I have an Android device with me and my main phone (iPhone Xs Max), I can stream in aptX and take calls on my iPhone.  If I don't have an Android device with me, I can stream in AAC on an Apple device, which does AAC quite nicely (noticeably better than Android). 

I have the originals (White Marble) and was looking to upgrade, but if they don't have AAC or multipoint, I won't do it for just the battery and ANC (I also have the WF-1000XM3).


----------



## Bhelpoori

Linus Jian said:


> I thought only iphone users would care about aac support... You have aptx on android...


Whilst most Androids have AptX, not all. I have one for example with LDAC, AAC and SBC...


----------



## hifi80sman

Just purchased these B&O clones.  You can use promo code EARBUDSOFF to knock off $19.99.  In my haste, I actually forgot to use it, so I sent the seller a message to see if they will refund me the difference, instead of having to return then re-buy (after testing them to see if they rock, of course).


----------



## C_Lindbergh

So the new MW07 plus supports multi point? Wow, shame that there doesn't seem to be an app with additional settings and EQ. And Sennheiser remains the only company that got APTX LL on their TWS.


----------



## gibletzor

hifi80sman said:


> Just purchased these B&O clones.  You can use promo code EARBUDSOFF to knock off $19.99.  In my haste, I actually forgot to use it, so I sent the seller a message to see if they will refund me the difference, instead of having to return then re-buy (after testing them to see if they rock, of course).


I had been eyeing those, but waiting for a sale.  Thanks!


----------



## bronco1015

hifi80sman said:


> Just purchased these B&O clones.  You can use promo code EARBUDSOFF to knock off $19.99.  In my haste, I actually forgot to use it, so I sent the seller a message to see if they will refund me the difference, instead of having to return then re-buy (after testing them to see if they rock, of course).


Can't read screenshots unfortunately. what's the name of them?


----------



## hifi80sman

bronco1015 said:


> Can't read screenshots unfortunately. what's the name of them?


KOSETON True Wireless Earbuds
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07VK61D6L/


----------



## Bartig

hifi80sman said:


> Just purchased these B&O clones.  You can use promo code EARBUDSOFF to knock off $19.99.  In my haste, I actually forgot to use it, so I sent the seller a message to see if they will refund me the difference, instead of having to return then re-buy (after testing them to see if they rock, of course).


Seems to be a rebrand of the UiiSii TWS60.


----------



## hifi80sman

Bartig said:


> Seems to be a rebrand of the UiiSii TWS60.


Funny you say that, because I actually took a look at your review before I purchased these because I remembered you reviewed something that appeared similar.  

Compared to the UiiSii, t looks like the KOSETON has no light on the face of the earbuds, the inside face of the earbuds appears a little less curved and almost identical to the B&O, the mic is in a different position (the same position as the B&O), 9 hours quoted playtime vs. 4 hours, and have a Qualcomm SoC.  They're even called the KOSETON "E8".  LOL!

I'm hoping these things sound great, but we shall see!


----------



## bronco1015

hifi80sman said:


> KOSETON True Wireless Earbuds
> https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07VK61D6L/


awesome thank you sir.


----------



## FYLegend

Linus Jian said:


> I thought only iphone users would care about aac support... You have aptx on android...


In the event AptX has terrible connectivity, AAC might fare better and typically SBC is the best.


----------



## d3myz

hifi80sman said:


> They must have changed the tuning.  They are unabashedly warm and bass heavy, yet fun to listen to.  I have to EQ them a little, but I like them and they are a good knock around pair for the gym or any noisy environment where you may need that additional bass thump.  As a matter of fact, I used them just today doing some yard work.


Are you talking about these?


----------



## d3myz

Well, I just got the SoundPeets Truengine SE and i'd have to say out of all the cheap TWS's i've heard these are probably one of the absolute worst as far as tuning is concerned. TruGarbage SE. I like the fit and the buttons are easy to press, almost too easy. Great compact case, nice design, although the clear plastic looks a bit cheap. I can say however these win the award for the worst Qualcomm 3020 chipset TWS i've heard.


----------



## geoxile

Anyone with the MW07/+, can they fit normal 4.9mm ID tips?


----------



## d3myz (Oct 23, 2019)

hifi80sman said:


> Just purchased these B&O clones.  You can use promo code EARBUDSOFF to knock off $19.99.  In my haste, I actually forgot to use it, so I sent the seller a message to see if they will refund me the difference, instead of having to return then re-buy (after testing them to see if they rock, of course).


I just grabbed these, what a discount code. Thanks man. Hopefully these will be better than the SoundPeets Truegarbage you made me buy.  Jk, bro.


----------



## AtariPrime

DigDub said:


> Actually they are pretty low profile even though they are bullet shaped. It protrudes about the same as my galaxy buds which doesn't protrude much too.



I think you are going to have to prove it...the stock photos make them look like Frankenstein corks.


----------



## Slater

Caipirina said:


> for a split second I read NOSE conduction and wondered 'oh, wow, what marvel of audio technology did I miss there?'



haha, sorry I meant BONE conduction


----------



## Slater (Oct 23, 2019)

Veyska said:


> I tried a pair out for a few days a while back and honestly given the variant nature of their noisemaking and especially given that they're intended for inherently noisy environments wherein you want to be able to hear said environmental noise they're pretty dang good.  I'd still be rocking them except I couldn't get a stable fit—I think the "cable" loop wanted to rest right where my ponytail does—and the "earpieces" would get nudged out of position every time I looked up or down more than just a hair and given the nature of how they make sound that basically meant I couldn't hear them clearly until I returned my head to the level.  Tried the Air and both sizes of Titanium.  Ah well.  Maybe if they come out with an over-the-head form factor...



I agree, for what they are, they sound really good. They’ve saved my life while riding my bicycle a few times now. So the fact that I can ride my bicycle and still have 100% situational awareness is awesome.

FYI, there is a little known fat that they sell 2 sizes - the ‘standard’ one is probably the one you tried. It’s meant for larger heads. They sell a ‘small’ size, that is intended for women and people with smaller heads (like teens). If you want the small, it’s harder to find though. If you buy it from their official eBay/Amazon shop you can just request the small size. You can also order the small direct from their website. Just something to think about, as I think that would probably have for you properly.

Edit: Sorry, I just saw that you tried both sizes of Titanium. Sorry neither size worked out for you


----------



## Veyska (Oct 23, 2019)

Slater said:


> I agree, for what they are, they sound really good. They’ve saved my life while riding my bicycle a few times now. So the fact that I can ride my bicycle and still have 100% situational awareness is awesome.
> 
> FYI, there is a little known fat that they sell 2 sizes - the ‘standard’ one is probably the one you tried. It’s meant for larger heads. They sell a ‘small’ size, that is intended for women and people with smaller heads (like teens). If you want the small, it’s harder to find though. If you buy it from their official eBay/Amazon shop you can just request the small size. You can also order the small direct from their website. Just something to think about, as I think that would probably have for you properly.
> 
> Edit: Sorry, I just saw that you tried both sizes of Titanium. Sorry neither size worked out for you


Apparently they've got a new design out and despite knowing it probably wouldn't fare any better I'm tempted by the self-contained (built-in mp3 player) model...    It is aimed at swimmers though, and presumably that means it's got a pretty dang firm grip...  >->

Anyhow, back on topic...


----------



## tma6

geoxile said:


> Anyone with the MW07/+, can they fit normal 4.9mm ID tips?



Not sure those specifically, but they have pretty small nozzles so I think you should be fine with most tips.


----------



## hifi80sman

d3myz said:


> Are you talking about these?


Yep


----------



## hifi80sman

d3myz said:


> Well, I just got the SoundPeets Truengine SE and i'd have to say out of all the cheap TWS's i've heard these are probably one of the absolute worst as far as tuning is concerned. TruGarbage SE. I like the fit and the buttons are easy to press, almost too easy. Great compact case, nice design, although the clear plastic looks a bit cheap. I can say however these win the award for the worst Qualcomm 3020 chipset TWS i've heard.


Yep, trash.  I think “tuned” is an overstatement.  I’m pretty sure nothing like that ever happened!


----------



## bronco1015

hifi80sman said:


> Funny you say that, because I actually took a look at your review before I purchased these because I remembered you reviewed something that appeared similar.
> 
> Compared to the UiiSii, t looks like the KOSETON has no light on the face of the earbuds, the inside face of the earbuds appears a little less curved and almost identical to the B&O, the mic is in a different position (the same position as the B&O), 9 hours quoted playtime vs. 4 hours, and have a Qualcomm SoC.  They're even called the KOSETON "E8".  LOL!
> 
> I'm hoping these things sound great, but we shall see!


just picked them up, and used the code as well. Will be here sAturday.


----------



## jasaero

OK, got the Shanling MTW100 BA black tonight.  First off volume capability is well below SSK Anbes clones.  I suspect they are similar sound  once you get good seal with good tips that fit.  Maybe slightly better detail.  I think bass response is flatter, but need way better fit and seal to get any bass vs the SSK.  Maybe a BA vs dynamic thing.  Would be no biggie, but tips that fit my ear are deeper style and done fit in case.  That and the lack of volume are a bit of a bummer.  Suspect I might find tips that fit case and still seal deep enough.

And although maybe flatter, more detailed, and better imaging than the SSK I have, they are just not as impactful and tight at reproduction of say drums.

Not had them long enough to comment on battery life or features.  No volume control is a bummer... Particularly when the seem to max out as such a low volume...makes you feel there is some setting to make them louder you are missing.  Get loud enough... Just not the same as SSK at all.  The ambient feature was my real reason for getting them and think the sound is as good or better than SSK even if not as exciting and impactful.  I suspect the SSK even has a bit more complete response with fuller bass and mid bass.  Suspect that is part of the lack or impact on these. Some of it is just the max volume being bit under what I sometimes have been putting the SSKs upto though.

Now to find tips that fit this case and allow this sound.... All the stock tips wipe all low frequency away when I try them.  

What are the foam with silicone coated ones some have talked about?


----------



## geoxile

tma6 said:


> Not sure those specifically, but they have pretty small nozzles so I think you should be fine with most tips.


I think 4.9mm is a common tip inner diameter. I love my JVC tips, the ones that come stock with the HA-FX700, so I'm looking for  something that'll fit those.



Peddler said:


> I'm using mine paired to a Galaxy Note 8 so I suspect they're only working in master/slave mode. To be honest I've never really worn them long enough for the battery to have run out. I think they claim the battery life on the headphones themselves are treated at 10 hours and the case is rated at 50 hours so yours don't appear to be behaving properly. Perhaps they need a reset?


Yeah I think I have a bad pair. I saw some of the amazon reviews mention they also had bad left sides. My left unit dies shortly before 5 hours whereas the right one will last a solid 7 to 7.5 hours of use. They're going to go back unfortunately, probably for good because I can't seem to adjust to the tips. The large ones fit well for a little while but today they were starting to make my ears ache. I'll probably give another day or two but right now I'm looking at the MW07+


----------



## webvan

Do the HA-FX700 come with the famous Spiral Dots? Reason I'm asking is I can't seem to source the Spiral Dots in Europe so might try to get some "cheap" (so not the HA-FX700!) that come with them and see if they work for me.


----------



## Chrisdu18e

Well I can also confirm you that the MWO7 + doesn't support AAC. I've tried with the "Bluetooth Explorer" app on my imac (2018, Mojave). I can force APTX and it works but if I put "Disable APTX", I've got only SBC. With my mac, the quality is really worse. I don't know why, but it's a little better with my iphone (11 pro ios 13.2). The SQ of the MW07+ with my iphone is correct but not as good with APTX in my mac. 

I am quite disappointed because a person of Master Dynamic (Jason) confirm me the support of AAC.
For the rest (size, fit, weigh, power, connectivity, design), it's nearly perfects TW (I've bought and sold or return Jabra Elite 65T,  Momentum, MW07, Tevi, Cambridge Melomania 1, Earin M2).
I give them one week and see if I keep these TW.


----------



## webvan

Thanks for confirming. Did you get hit by taxes ? 
I was going to try the Melomania 1 as I've read they are good combo of SQ and isolation, what didn't you like about them ?


----------



## billbishere

any chance we could get like a Top 5 cheap TWS list or something?  There is like 1k pages here I don't feel like going through.  Maybe update the OP?


----------



## Grayson73

d3myz said:


> Honestly, my SSK's don't sound quite like the 359's. The SSK has a little cleaner high end and less bass, but they are very close.



My 359s have much less bass than the SSK and are tuned brighter.  I ordered another SSK from Amazon so that I can get to the bottom of this.  There's still 1 left on Amazon for $21 shipped if anyone is interested.


----------



## Grayson73

Where can you buy this MW07+ that people are talking about for $30?  Also, anybody compare them to SSK/Anbes 359?


----------



## RobinFood (Oct 24, 2019)

I just got the bt20s mmcx version and paired it with the Smabat ST-10. I am still getting the hang of slipping them on properly.

When they are on though they are extremely comfortable, I never want to take them off.

The sound though is less clean than it was on the es100 both on aptx...I guess that is too be expected, but the bass seems less fast and the separation is a tad less good. Mids seem more forward. It might be the snugger fit that it creates, or maybe the positioning blocks the port a little more...I am not sure but I will try it for a week or two and switch back to make sure it is not just in my head.

It had a teeny bit of white sound, but it is really minimalistic with this combo, you have to listen to audio books to notice, and even then it is not distracting.

The thing that irks me though is that the led light is always blinking, even when playing music. Your ear blocks about 90% of it, but in a dark room my wife still gives me a hard time about it. I might try flipping the earphones so the light points to my head see if the buttons are still usable, out but done light dim stickers for these bad boys.

Overall a pretty neat gadget, kind of a hybrid as they sound better than most true wireless sets I have tried but are ever so slightly less convenient without auto connect out of the case and fishing too get them on and off. Still on the fence if I will keep using them or just get a proper short cable for the ST-10 to use on the es100.

In that case the only mmcx I have to pair them with would be tennmaks pro and I don't see that sounding great...

Maybe the Nuarl is on the same level for sound or higher depending on what I'm listening to though with aptx.


----------



## tma6

Grayson73 said:


> Where can you buy this MW07+ that people are talking about for $30?  Also, anybody compare them to SSK/Anbes 359?



Lol there's no such thing. I was just saying that it's crazy that the MW07+ doesn't have AAC while there are $30 TWS that do. That being said, these things sound awesome. Full review coming either later today or tomorrow.


----------



## vstolpner

billbishere said:


> any chance we could get like a Top 5 cheap TWS list or something?  There is like 1k pages here I don't feel like going through.  Maybe update the OP?


Look at people's signatures. Most have their favorites listed or link to their review sites


----------



## geoxile

webvan said:


> Do the HA-FX700 come with the famous Spiral Dots? Reason I'm asking is I can't seem to source the Spiral Dots in Europe so might try to get some "cheap" (so not the HA-FX700!) that come with them and see if they work for me.


I believe so. I lost the original tips and bought replacements (spiral dot medium for ha-fx series iems) and found they're the same as far as I can tell. They're an excellent fit. I used to have complys and other knockoff foam tips but found the spiral dots to be the best even when I tried foam tips on my fx700. These are the ones I bought

VICTOR JVC EP-FX9ML-B Spiral Dot Earpiece (Size ML / 6 pcs) https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00Q2I15F8/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apap_K4HyplG6UBQ7V


----------



## Caipirina

billbishere said:


> any chance we could get like a Top 5 cheap TWS list or something?  There is like 1k pages here I don't feel like going through.  Maybe update the OP?



I always find that Bartig's scarbir.com has some excellent top 5 lists that pretty much reflect the chatter here ... it is also a dangerous vortex leading one straight down the rabbit hole!


----------



## billbishere

Eh.  I picked up some of the E8 clones.  For 30 bucks I  curious to see how they actually are.  I doubt tjsu as good as B&O E8 but...  All in good fun.  They have decent specs and water proof and I really wanted something to shower with so.  At least I can do that.


----------



## Chrisdu18e

webvan said:


> Thanks for confirming. Did you get hit by taxes ?
> I was going to try the Melomania 1 as I've read they are good combo of SQ and isolation, what didn't you like about them ?


I didn't pay any taxes. 
The Melomania 1 is a good choice but the shape of these TW is not for me. Also, everytime I push the button of the Melodia I was sinking deeply into my ear.
For the rest, it's a really good TW.


----------



## jlo mein

jasaero said:


> OK, got the Shanling MTW100 BA black tonight....but tips that fit my ear are deeper style and done fit in case....Suspect I might find tips that fit case and still seal deep enough.
> 
> ....What are the foam with silicone coated ones some have talked about?



Please post when you find something suitable.  These MTW100 BA sound like my optimal profile but can't buy until some solid tips are found that fit the case.


----------



## voicemaster

RobinFood said:


> I just got the bt20s mmcx version and paired it with the Smabat ST-10. I am still getting the hang of slipping them on properly.
> 
> When they are on though they are extremely comfortable, I never want to take them off.
> 
> ...



Just use a tape to block the LED light.


----------



## assassin10000

RobinFood said:


> The thing that irks me though is that the led light is always blinking, even when playing music. Your ear blocks about 90% of it, but in a dark room my wife still gives me a hard time about it. I might try flipping the earphones so the light points to my head see if the buttons are still usable, out but done light dim stickers for these bad boys.





voicemaster said:


> Just use a tape to block the LED light.



Or since the mic is poorly positioned, fill the hole with some black silicone. That's what I've done on all of my BT20/BT20S that I've had.

I don't use mine for calls at all.


----------



## d3myz

Got the Earfun Free, yesterday. Wow i'm really impressed, they sound really fantastic! They are a little bulky, but the buttons are probably the best I've used. Easy to press and covered in rubber. My only complaint is no volume control, they even have USB-C. These are a keeper. I use them with my spiral dots and they have really good clarity and excellent bass. I'd put these up against the Tevi's any day. 

On another note, Guess who's L2pro's started hissing? Yup. mine. It's not really bad, but I can hear it now. 2 weeks can't get here soon enough.


----------



## AtariPrime

billbishere said:


> any chance we could get like a Top 5 cheap TWS list or something?  There is like 1k pages here I don't feel like going through.  Maybe update the OP?



Top 5 for sound quality, top 5 for deals, top 5 for compactness, top 5 for battery, top 5 for sportiness, top 5 all around?

I'll throw my grain of salt worthy opinion out there with the top 1 for each category.

Top for Sound Quality:
Sony WF-1000XM3

Top for Best Deal:
Anbes 359

Top for Compactness:
Earin M2

Top for Battery:
Creative Outlier Gold

Top for Sportiness:
Hmm...maybe the Jaybird Run XT (but the also look at the Bose Earbuds 500 or the Urbanista Athens both releasing soon)

Top All Around:
Probably the Creative Outlier Gold, but the Sennheiser Momentum hits the check boxes for many.  I rule out the Sony b/c of they are way to big and have no IP resistance.


----------



## d3myz

AtariPrime said:


> Top 5 for sound quality, top 5 for deals, top 5 for compactness, top 5 for battery, top 5 for sportiness, top 5 all around?
> 
> I'll throw my grain of salt worthy opinion out there with the top 1 for each category.
> 
> ...




Anbes 359 is no longer available. SSK or Kissral is probably the best secondary option, the SSK is/was $20 in amazon $30 on Aliepxress I believe,  but i'd argue the Tranya T3, B530, MPOW T5, Earfun Free and Lystar J29 are all close competitors here, in the $30-40 range.


----------



## billbishere

d3myz said:


> Got the Earfun Free, yesterday. Wow i'm really impressed, they sound really fantastic! They are a little bulky, but the buttons are probably the best I've used. Easy to press and covered in rubber. My only complaint is no volume control, they even have USB-C. These are a keeper. I use them with my spiral dots and they have really good clarity and excellent bass. I'd put these up against the Tevi's any day.
> 
> On another note, Guess who's L2pro's started hissing? Yup. mine. It's not really bad, but I can hear it now. 2 weeks can't get here soon enough.




I looked and considered those.   but went with the Koseton E8s.  also got close on those Fiio Sage TWS


----------



## d3myz

billbishere said:


> I looked and considered those.   but went with the Koseton E8s.  also got close on those Fiio Sage TWS


My Koseton's are in the mail. Man, I loving the Earfun's, they sound fantastic.


----------



## billbishere (Oct 24, 2019)

d3myz said:


> My Koseton's are in the mail. Man, I loving the Earfun's, they sound fantastic.


mine will be here by 9pm est.   love me some same day shipping.

I skipped the earfuns due to connectivity issue concern.   no 3020 chip..    Hope koseton are legit..   I am excited to try them.


----------



## dweaver

I hate not being able to test stuff. I am very tempted by the WF1000XM3 but at the price point I want to be able to hear and use them a bit.

Similarly the MW07 Go look awesome, but again it would be nice to test before shelling out $200+ CAD dollars.

Finally the Liberty 2 Pro also look great but all this white noise talk makes me nervous. I have 50yr old ears and know I have owned gear that hissed according to others that I could not hear it. So that might happen here or I will hear it and then hate using them.

It also sucks being in Canada, between the difference in the dollar and many of the new stuff simply not being available up here... DOH!!!


----------



## billbishere (Oct 24, 2019)

dweaver said:


> I hate not being able to test stuff. I am very tempted by the WF1000XM3 but at the price point I want to be able to hear and use them a bit.
> 
> Similarly the MW07 Go look awesome, but again it would be nice to test before shelling out $200+ CAD dollars.
> 
> ...


imo none of the TWS are worth the premium because there are so many sub 100 models that are good.   The sony are not worth double or even triple the cost.   If you want sound quality buy something wired.   otherwise anything sub 100 is good enough...   That's my opinion


----------



## hifi80sman

dweaver said:


> I hate not being able to test stuff. I am very tempted by the WF1000XM3 but at the price point I want to be able to hear and use them a bit.
> 
> Similarly the MW07 Go look awesome, but again it would be nice to test before shelling out $200+ CAD dollars.
> 
> ...


Unable to return items you're not satisfied with, eh?


----------



## mattedialdoc

gibletzor said:


> I don't remember who was talking up these Auvio eartips from Radio Shack but these are fantastic.  Thank you for the recommendation!



They are on sale now for $1.99 USD


----------



## dweaver

hifi80sman said:


> Unable to return items you're not satisfied with, eh?



Aside from Amazon.ca most stores will not allow returns for IEMs as they claim hygiene reasons.

Guess I have to embrace online shopping and get used to using the return policies


----------



## hifi80sman

dweaver said:


> Aside from Amazon.ca most stores will not allow returns for IEMs as they claim hygiene reasons.
> 
> Guess I have to embrace online shopping and get used to using the return policies


Gotcha.  Sucks.  Yeah, Amazon may be the best for you, but just make sure you don't return too much, because they will send you a "we're concerned" email.  LOL!

For the record, the WF-1000XM3 are solid and I definitely like them, quite a bit actually.  Typical Sony house sound, but there is an App for EQ, so you can adjust to your preferences.

The current version of the Liberty 2 Pro does have a hiss.  It's louder than the typical noise floor, no question.  Whether you can hear it or not, well, that depends on your ears.  I've been told my hearing is like that of an Owl's, as I'm always telling others around me to "be quiet" and "stop talking so loud, I'm just right here!".    They claim to be releasing a "new version", so I would hold out for those.  Other than the hiss, they sound very, very good.  The standard Liberty 2 also sounds quite lovely and has about 50% of the hiss and 90% of the SQ of the Pros.  They are actually a bit more fun than the Pros with a little extra bass depth.  I personally decided to go with the Liberty 2 instead of paying $50 more and waiting for the Pros.  I also lack patience when it comes to audioholic stuff.

As noted in this thread, the new MW07 Go and Plus seem to have omitted AAC and do not have multipoint like the original MW07.


----------



## D3soLaT3

Scored a pair of the Anbes 359. Time to find out which UFO reigns supreme.


----------



## jasaero

billbishere said:


> imo none of the TWS are worth the premium because there are so many sub 100 models that are good.   The sony are not worth double or even triple the cost.   If you want sound quality buy something wired.   otherwise anything sub 100 is good enough...   That's my opinion



I have an inkling this is the case, but due to that haven't tried anything over $100 yet.  My $20 SSK are definitely not 1/4 of the Shanling MTW100's I just got here.  I would say they are easily 80-90% all things factored.  Probably 95% on sound quality even and like the volume control I am missing with MTW100.  Just I like having the ambient mode and reviews suggested these sounded good and had that for less than other options.  Satisfied so far, but some $20-50 dollar options that have ambient somehow would be awesome.


----------



## billbishere

jasaero said:


> I have an inkling this is the case, but due to that haven't tried anything over $100 yet.  My $20 SSK are definitely not 1/4 of the Shanling MTW100's I just got here.  I would say they are easily 80-90% all things factored.  Probably 95% on sound quality even and like the volume control I am missing with MTW100.  Just I like having the ambient mode and reviews suggested these sounded good and had that for less than other options.  Satisfied so far, but some $20-50 dollar options that have ambient somehow would be awesome.



I know I saw Galaxy Buds do that.   you can get old version for around 80.  New version for like 120.


----------



## geoxile

hifi80sman said:


> Gotcha.  Sucks.  Yeah, Amazon may be the best for you, but just make sure you don't return too much, because they will send you a "we're concerned" email.  LOL!
> 
> For the record, the WF-1000XM3 are solid and I definitely like them, quite a bit actually.  Typical Sony house sound, but there is an App for EQ, so you can adjust to your preferences.
> 
> ...


Do the qcc302x chipsets actually support multipoint natively?


----------



## jasaero

billbishere said:


> I know I saw Galaxy Buds do that.   you can get old version for around 80.  New version for like 120.



Haha, they are probably fine..same sorta price range though.  I tend to not like buying such products from Samsung/Apple though.  So many alternatives and theirs although good and competitive seem to exist for making margin.  Guessing Galaxy Bud part list cost is way closer to SSK than Shanling.  Not that PL cost is gaining much in this case, but it got me that feature somehow.


----------



## HiFlight (Oct 24, 2019)

I finally received my TRN T200 buds earlier today so will post a few preliminary comments.  Although unboxing is not a very exciting thing for me, I do try to save all my boxes "just in case".  The T200 box was without doubt, the most challenging to open without damage of any packages I have received.  The sleeve just fits so tight it's nearly impossible to slide off without damage.  Takes patience and finesse, neither of which are my stronger virtues!

That said, the buds are nicely crafted and give the appearance of a much more pricey IEM.   The case is quite small, about the size of that of my Libratone.   Charging is via Micro USB.   The T200 is fairly petite and fits in my ear very nicely.  It does seem to offer more passive isolation that most of my other buds. 

So far, the sound is decent given an appropriate volume setting.  Pushed hard, the BA highs seem to get a little harsh/strident but the dynamic driver does a good job of delivering bass without blooming into the mids.  Vocals are nice, with staging sounding pretty realistic.  A sense of depth is also present, not what I would call holographic but a cut above the norm at this price point. 

The T200 does support SBC/AAC/AptX.   Touch controls are probably the low point as I thought a single touch is supposed to adjust volume and call up the voice assistant, although I can't find any info that definitely states that the volume can be controlled from the earpiece.   However, I have not yet been able to adjust the volume either up (Rt touch) or down (Lt touch) so I have my doubts if this feature is included.  I will play around longer and see what happens.  A double tap both accomplishes Play/Pause and Answers/Hangup calls.  3 taps on the left bud is next song and a single click on the right is previous song.  Rather confusing. 

I will pair them with a couple of my DAP's to get a better sense of how they perform as so far I have only used them with my Moto G7 Power smartphone.  

I really want to like them as the fit and build are just fine.


----------



## d3myz

mattedialdoc said:


> They are on sale now for $1.99 USD


@Slater


----------



## vstolpner

HiFlight said:


> I finally received my TRN T200 buds earlier today so will post a few preliminary comments.  Although unboxing is not a very exciting thing for me, I do try to save all my boxes "just in case".  The T200 box was without doubt, the most challenging to open without damage of any packages I have received.  The sleeve just fits so tight it's nearly impossible to slide off without damage.  Takes patience and finesse, neither of which are my stronger virtues!
> 
> That said, the buds are nicely crafted and give the appearance of a much more pricey IEM.   The case is quite small, about the size of that of my Libratone.   Charging is via Micro USB.   The T200 is fairly petite and fits in my ear very nicely.  It does seem to offer more passive isolation that most of my other buds.
> 
> ...



Very interested in how these end up after some burn in, and how they compare to other Chi-Fi units!!


----------



## dweaver

hifi80sman said:


> Gotcha.  Sucks.  Yeah, Amazon may be the best for you, but just make sure you don't return too much, because they will send you a "we're concerned" email.  LOL!
> 
> For the record, the WF-1000XM3 are solid and I definitely like them, quite a bit actually.  Typical Sony house sound, but there is an App for EQ, so you can adjust to your preferences.
> 
> ...



I am an android guy so can live without AAC but actually prefer it over APTx quite often as I find it not a brittle sounding. So am thinking of waiting for more reviews of the MW07 Go. I like the Sony signature so am tempted to just go WF1000XM3 but have not since they are hard to find still. But these Soundcore IEM also have me interested but are not available on Amazon.ca yet. 

So I will continue to read and wait a bit longer.

Poor me I will have to just use my MTW in the meantime LOL. Or if I can ever find them my WF700 or Samsung Buds both are lost at the moment which really peeves me off.

Bottom line, I have wayyyyyy to much techno stuff


----------



## HiFlight

vstolpner said:


> Very interested in how these end up after some burn in, and how they compare to other Chi-Fi units!!


Unfortunately, the T200 is going to be relegated to my box of disappointments.   The treble remains thin and sibilant, totally spoiling the listening experience for me.  Also, the range on both my phone and R5 DAP is only about 10-12' before connectivity interruptions.  A shame, as it is a very nice-looking IEM.  I did confirm that it receives SBC, AAC and AptX although the highs sound just as bad to me with all 3.  I don't think burn-in would have any noticeable effect on the balanced armature that handles the highs.    
I will likely use them as a bonus extra for something else I may sell in the future.


----------



## bronco1015

hifi80sman said:


> Gotcha.  Sucks.  Yeah, Amazon may be the best for you, but just make sure you don't return too much, because they will send you a "we're concerned" email.  LOL!
> 
> For the record, the WF-1000XM3 are solid and I definitely like them, quite a bit actually.  Typical Sony house sound, but there is an App for EQ, so you can adjust to your preferences.
> 
> ...


Did you get another "we're concerned email like the one you refered to when you mentioned returning 12 headphones in 12 days? Or just sharing your cautionary experience again? just curious.


----------



## bronco1015

The tevi's came in today, and am home from work so tried them for a bit before charging. My initial thoughts, they definitely have a very similar sound to the Mpow T5, but with less bass just as d3myz mentioned. That's exactly what i wanted though. I think the mids sounded a bit better and a lot mor treble on the tevis imo, but i like it. They use the exact same voice prompts you hear on the T5 and ofusho f16, each bud works indipendetly as advertised, the buttons on the tevi are round, the ones on the T5 are rectangular if i remember correctly. will post mor after they've charged and i've spent mor time listening to them.


----------



## rhsauer

I’ve noted in prior posts that I have been experiencing frequent dropped Bluetooth connections when using my Liberty 2 Pros with my iPhone 11 Pro.  These dropped connections always occur when I’m using the microphone on the earphones (i.e., when on a call or when recording a voice memo).  The dropped connections occur randomly, but once they start occurring they occur frequently.  A factory reset of the earphones seems to help for a while, but the disconnections always come back.

I’ve been trying to figure out what the problem is.  At one point, I thought the problem might be related to the app (which it isn’t), and I actually brought my iPhone in for exchange to the Apple store (which also didn’t solve the problem).

After several days of troubleshooting, I just read on Amazon that there is a Bluetooth connectivity issue with the Liberty 2s (not the “Pro” model) and (specifically) the iPhone 11 series.  The heading of the Amazon listing for the Liberty 2s actually says “Not for iPhone 11 Series,” and one of the Customer Reviews notes that they “constantly disconnect” from the iPhone 11.  I’m assuming this is the same problem I’ve been experiencing on the Liberty 2 Pros.  Also, when the earphones start dropping the Bluetooth connection, the microphone’s sound quality also seems to diminish.

I just wrote to Soundcore support to ask them whether this is an issue they are aware of, and whether it will it be fixed in a firmware update.  I will update this post when I hear back from Soundcore.

In other respects, I love these earphones, and would hate to have to return them — but not being able to rely on them to make a phone call is a deal killer.

Is anyone else here experiencing the same problem?  Again, the problem relates specifically (I think) to the interaction between the Liberty 2s (both the Pro and non-Pro versions) and the iPhone 11.


----------



## d3myz

bronco1015 said:


> Did you get another "we're concerned email like the one you refered to when you mentioned returning 12 headphones in 12 days? Or just sharing your cautionary experience again? just curious.


I sent 13 headphones back in one box a couple weeks ago. Zero letter from Amazon. then again I've purchased another 10 or so since then.


----------



## bronco1015

d3myz said:


> I sent 13 headphones back in one box a couple weeks ago. Zero letter from Amazon. then again I've purchased another 10 or so since then.


nice lol. I was just curious because he mentioned it agasain.


----------



## d3myz

rhsauer said:


> I’ve noted in prior posts that I have been experiencing frequent dropped Bluetooth connections when using my Liberty 2 Pros with my iPhone 11 Pro.  These dropped connections always occur when I’m using the microphone on the earphones (i.e., when on a call or when recording a voice memo).  The dropped connections occur randomly, but once they start occurring they occur frequently.  A factory reset of the earphones seems to help for a while, but the disconnections always come back.
> 
> I’ve been trying to figure out what the problem is.  At one point, I thought the problem might be related to the app (which it isn’t), and I actually brought my iPhone in for exchange to the Apple store (which also didn’t solve the problem).
> 
> ...


Wow, that's ridiculous! maybe it has something to do with apple's new wideband bluetooth chipset or whatever it's called.  What version of iOS are you on? I have an XS max and haven't had any issues with mine dropping out. I am on ios 13.2 beta 4


----------



## rhsauer (Oct 24, 2019)

d3myz said:


> Wow, that's ridiculous! maybe it has something to do with apple's new wideband bluetooth chipset or whatever it's called.  What version of iOS are you on? I have an XS max and haven't had any issues with mine dropping out. I am on ios 13.2 beta 4



Yes, it is ridiculous.  We’ll see what Soundcore says.  I’m on 13.1.3.  I don’t think the issue is with iOS, I think (like you said) it’s with the new Bluetooth implementation on the iPhone 11 series.  Between this and the fact that the WM07 doesn’t support AAC, I’m thinking maybe the Samsung doesn’t look too bad . (Just kidding!)

EDIT:  This seems to be a known issue that Apple will have to solve:  https://discussions.apple.com/thread/250677100?page=4


----------



## Slater (Oct 24, 2019)

d3myz said:


> @Slater



They are my favorite tip by far, and a steal for the price. I actually just ordered some more, as they won't be around forever. The 2-pairs for $1.99 M kits sold out a long time ago, then the S kits followed. Now I only see qty (4) L kits left in stock. Once those are all sold out, the only option left will be the $4 SML kits. And when those are gone, that will be the end of Auvios forever!

So buy them while you can, folks. They are worth every penny! They are basically Spiral Dot tips (or at least extremely similar) without the dots (to avoid IP lawsuits), at a fraction of the price.


----------



## geoxile

d3myz said:


> I sent 13 headphones back in one box a couple weeks ago. Zero letter from Amazon. then again I've purchased another 10 or so since then.


Amazon does definitely ban serial returners but it's relative to how much you've purchased from them IIRC. So as long as you're a big spender a few returns won't hurt. And I've also heard there's a base limit of a few thousand before they take any action but that's all anecdotal/conjecture.



rhsauer said:


> I’ve noted in prior posts that I have been experiencing frequent dropped Bluetooth connections when using my Liberty 2 Pros with my iPhone 11 Pro.  These dropped connections always occur when I’m using the microphone on the earphones (i.e., when on a call or when recording a voice memo).  The dropped connections occur randomly, but once they start occurring they occur frequently.  A factory reset of the earphones seems to help for a while, but the disconnections always come back.
> 
> I’ve been trying to figure out what the problem is.  At one point, I thought the problem might be related to the app (which it isn’t), and I actually brought my iPhone in for exchange to the Apple store (which also didn’t solve the problem).
> 
> ...


It might just be Qualcomm's ecosystem not playing nice with Apple's. Qualcomm has their QCC bluetooth chips and Apple has the H1/W1 and it seems like they work best with their respective brands.


----------



## Mouseman

mattedialdoc said:


> They are on sale now for $1.99 USD


I just got mine, and I can confirm they are *awesome. *I think it was @Slater  who suggested them. Hurry, buy them!


----------



## hifi80sman

bronco1015 said:


> Did you get another "we're concerned email like the one you refered to when you mentioned returning 12 headphones in 12 days? Or just sharing your cautionary experience again? just curious.


I've received the warning before.  I've calmed myself down, so I'm not so radical anymore.


----------



## mattedialdoc

Slater said:


> They are my favorite tip by far, and a steal for the price. I actually just ordered some more, as they won't be around forever. The 2-pairs for $1.99 M kits sold out a long time ago, then the S kits followed. Now I only see qty (4) L kits left in stock. Once those are all sold out, the only option left will be the $4 SML kits. And when those are gone, that will be the end of Auvios forever!
> 
> So buy them while you can, folks. They are worth every penny! They are basically Spiral Dot tips (or at least extremely similar) without the dots (to avoid IP lawsuits), at a fraction of the price.



Do you think the L that are on sale would fit if a Comply fits me fine?


----------



## cwill

Slater said:


> They are my favorite tip by far, and a steal for the price. I actually just ordered some more, as they won't be around forever. The 2-pairs for $1.99 M kits sold out a long time ago, then the S kits followed. Now I only see qty (4) L kits left in stock. Once those are all sold out, the only option left will be the $4 SML kits. And when those are gone, that will be the end of Auvios forever!
> 
> So buy them while you can, folks. They are worth every penny! They are basically Spiral Dot tips (or at least extremely similar) without the dots (to avoid IP lawsuits), at a fraction of the price.


May I ask what it is about them that is better than others? Genuinely curious. Think I'll order the variety pack.


----------



## hifi80sman (Oct 24, 2019)

So...the KOSETON.  For $30, I think I'm going to keep them.  They are certainly not world-beaters, but for a solid gym/yard work pair, I think they fit the bill.  They do not come close to dethroning the current value picks (Anbes 359, MPOW T5).

- They don't stick out much and look fairly sleek.
- Deep, resonating bass.
- Comfortable
- USB-C
- aptX & AAC support.
- Good battery life.
- Nice Aluminum case.
- Responsive touch controls (play/pause, track, volume, assistant).
- No connection issues.

Sound out of the box is thick, a bit muddy, and bass heavy.  Using the "Bass Reducer" setting in Spotify (never thought I'd actually say that) and pushing the highs up (never thought I'd say that either), they sound decent and the speakers don't distort.  Mic for calls is about average.  Voice is a little muffled, but volume as heard by the caller is decent, so usable.


----------



## howdy (Oct 24, 2019)

Anyone else have the power beats pro? I bought a pair a week ago and returned it yesterday for a new pair as the one I had the button was a bit sensitive for my liking. My new pair is much better but one thing is the same, the treble is something I can't describe. When there is slow music playing they actually sound great to me, but when the instruments get faster the highs get a discombobulated.
Everything about these is awesome to me like fit and functionality, bass is really nice as well. I wish there was an app for this to tune the treble a bit and to boost the mids a bit.

I forgot to mention, do these automatically connect AAC with Apple devices? I'm using mine with a iPod touch with tidal Hifi downloaded.


----------



## billbishere

Koseton E8s just got here.   I think they sound pretty great.   I am having major connection issue.  The master is fine but the slave is dropping connection like crszy.   Doesn't matter which side I make the slave both Left and Right drop like crazy when they are made the slave. 

also in Aptx AAC or SBC....    it's frustrating because otherwise I really like them


----------



## Slater

mattedialdoc said:


> Do you think the L that are on sale would fit if a Comply fits me fine?



Not sure, as I don't use foam tips. If you want, I would be happy to provide an accurate mm of the Auvios. Then, all you'd need to do is measure the Complys on your end.


----------



## Slater

cwill said:


> May I ask what it is about them that is better than others? Genuinely curious. Think I'll order the variety pack.



They are wide bore, but not short and shallow like most wide bore tips. Also, they taper, unlike most wide bores, allowing a deeper and more stable insertion.

Basically, they provide the fit of a narrow bore tip (like KZ Starlines for example), but with the sonic improvements of a wide bore.


----------



## cwill

Slater said:


> They are wide bore, but not short and shallow like most wide bore tips. Also, they taper, unlike most wide bores, allowing a deeper and more stable insertion.
> 
> Basically, they provide the fit of a narrow bore tip (like KZ Starlines for example), but with the sonic improvements of a wide bore.


Great, thank you! Hopefully they'll be my new favorites as I use wide bore also.


----------



## mattedialdoc

Slater said:


> Not sure, as I don't use foam tips. If you want, I would be happy to provide an accurate mm of the Auvios. Then, all you'd need to do is measure the Complys on your end.



Thanks. Kind of you ! I went ahead and ordered some before they sell out!


----------



## Rob E.

Slater said:


> They are my favorite tip by far, and a steal for the price. I actually just ordered some more, as they won't be around forever. The 2-pairs for $1.99 M kits sold out a long time ago, then the S kits followed. Now I only see qty (4) L kits left in stock. Once those are all sold out, the only option left will be the $4 SML kits. And when those are gone, that will be the end of Auvios forever!
> 
> So buy them while you can, folks. *They are worth every penny!* They are basically Spiral Dot tips (or at least extremely similar) without the dots (to avoid IP lawsuits), at a fraction of the price.



Hope you're right. All I saw was the sml kit for $4.00, at a 2 for 1 price so I took it... with a $0.60 wikibuy discount, plus $3.00 shipping. So I know I'll have at least two spare pairs that'll work for me (out of the six) to fall back on in the future. Cheap enough. A good & comfortable seal makes all the difference. Thx for the reco (I think) ;^)


----------



## georgelai57 (Oct 24, 2019)

Two under the radar perhaps from AliExpress - the JadeAudio EW1 (part of FiiO) and the Whizzer WA11 (their A15 was quite a success).


----------



## d3myz

rhsauer said:


> Yes, it is ridiculous.  We’ll see what Soundcore says.  I’m on 13.1.3.  I don’t think the issue is with iOS, I think (like you said) it’s with the new Bluetooth implementation on the iPhone 11 series.  Between this and the fact that the WM07 doesn’t support AAC, I’m thinking maybe the Samsung doesn’t look too bad . (Just kidding!)
> 
> EDIT:  This seems to be a known issue that Apple will have to solve:  https://discussions.apple.com/thread/250677100?page=4


HAHA. Yea I was eyeing the Pixel 4, but man losing my icloud and imessage, no thanks.


----------



## d3myz

Ok, i've been listeing to the Earfun Free for almost a day and a half and i'm really wow'd. I'm curious as to how many of you have heard them? I know @hifi80sman has and maybe one or two other, but damn guys, these things sound phenomenal. Like a Tevi with bass, not basshead bass, but really well balanced and textured bass. and excellent mids and highs. Can anyone else weigh in on these. I mean i've listened to roughly 50 so TWS' in this price range and these are now in my top 5. Thoughts?


----------



## Mouseman

georgelai57 said:


> Two under the radar perhaps from AliExpress - the JadeAudio E1 (part of FiiO) and the Whizzer WA11 (their A15 was quite a success).


Is that the same thing as the Jade EW1? I've been eyeing it on Amazon, it's even on sale, but I just can't get myself to buy it. It looks like it might be a re-brand (hence the reason they're not calling it a Fiio), and I've got others of the same general type. If it gets some good reviews, I might take a chance for $35


----------



## georgelai57 (Oct 24, 2019)

Mouseman said:


> Is that the same thing as the Jade EW1? I've been eyeing it on Amazon, it's even on sale, but I just can't get myself to buy it. It looks like it might be a re-brand (hence the reason they're not calling it a Fiio), and I've got others of the same general type. If it gets some good reviews, I might take a chance for $35


Jade Audio was set up by FiiO apparently. Yeah it should be EW1. My typo error now corrected.


----------



## geoxile

Anyone with the MW07 Plus try them for workouts, namely jogging and in-door biking/peddling? I'm trying to decide between the Plus and the Go. The Plus seems to be the same weight as the original MW07 but it's much smaller. And the Go is smaller and lighter. But I would like a decent mic and ANC for the office too.


----------



## tma6

geoxile said:


> Anyone with the MW07 Plus try them for workouts, namely jogging and in-door biking/peddling? I'm trying to decide between the Plus and the Go. The Plus seems to be the same weight as the original MW07 but it's much smaller. And the Go is smaller and lighter. But I would like a decent mic and ANC for the office too.



Full review coming tomorrow, but I played basketball with the MW07 Plus in and had no issues.


----------



## geoxile

tma6 said:


> Full review coming tomorrow, but I played basketball with the MW07 Plus in and had no issues.


Perfect, thanks.


----------



## d3myz

Got the Tagry W1 today. Awesome metal
Case, but it won’t take a charge! Sound is average at best, significantly rolled off highs, pretty muddy sounding with decent low end. Damn Shame. Another subpar TWS with a an amazing metal case.


----------



## XGUGU

Mouseman said:


> Is that the same thing as the Jade EW1? I've been eyeing it on Amazon, it's even on sale, but I just can't get myself to buy it. It looks like it might be a re-brand (hence the reason they're not calling it a Fiio), and I've got others of the same general type. If it gets some good reviews, I might take a chance for $35


They are the same on Amazon. also they are genuine. They don't exist under the Fiio name. Jade audio is apparently Fiios international seller which also brands some of their hardware division


----------



## bronco1015

hifi80sman said:


> So...the KOSETON.  For $30, I think I'm going to keep them.  They are certainly not world-beaters, but for a solid gym/yard work pair, I think they fit the bill.  They do not come close to dethroning the current value picks (Anbes 359, MPOW T5).
> 
> - They don't stick out much and look fairly sleek.
> - Deep, resonating bass.
> ...


Good to know. i removed the poor excuse for a fin from the ofusho F16,, and they fit much better, and therefore sound less crappy. They'll be my designated shower pair. if the kozetons don't sound worse, for $30 i'll probably keep them for a similar purpose.


----------



## bronco1015

d3myz said:


> Ok, i've been listeing to the Earfun Free for almost a day and a half and i'm really wow'd. I'm curious as to how many of you have heard them? I know @hifi80sman has and maybe one or two other, but damn guys, these things sound phenomenal. Like a Tevi with bass, not basshead bass, but really well balanced and textured bass. and excellent mids and highs. Can anyone else weigh in on these. I mean i've listened to roughly 50 so TWS' in this price range and these are now in my top 5. Thoughts?


how are the mids compared to the tevis. I wish the tevis had just a bit mor depth to the mids. i'm knitpicking, but that is one thing i'd change.


----------



## hifi80sman

d3myz said:


> Got the Tagry W1 today. Awesome metal
> Case, but it won’t take a charge! Sound is average at best, significantly rolled off highs, pretty muddy sounding with decent low end. Damn Shame. Another subpar TWS with a an amazing metal case.


You'll have to EQ them.  It has potential.


----------



## gibletzor

billbishere said:


> Koseton E8s just got here.   I think they sound pretty great.   I am having major connection issue.  The master is fine but the slave is dropping connection like crszy.   Doesn't matter which side I make the slave both Left and Right drop like crazy when they are made the slave.
> 
> also in Aptx AAC or SBC....    it's frustrating because otherwise I really like them


I'm having the same issue.  Even with my phone sitting right in front of me whichever one I have connected as the master is perfect, the other will drop out randomly for 1-3 seconds.


----------



## gibletzor

Mouseman said:


> Is that the same thing as the Jade EW1? I've been eyeing it on Amazon, it's even on sale, but I just can't get myself to buy it. It looks like it might be a re-brand (hence the reason they're not calling it a Fiio), and I've got others of the same general type. If it gets some good reviews, I might take a chance for $35


I've been liking mine so far!  Sound isn't the absolute best, but it's good.  Decent bass, nice highs, a little lacking in the mids though.  They're very light and comfortable, the charging case is small too.  They do have problems charging with longer tips like the Auvios though. You have to push them down into the case instead of just letting the magnet do the work.


----------



## hifi80sman

Looks like a HIFIMAN TWS600 clone.  Anyone want to take a shot?  
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07P4CHTXP/


----------



## billbishere

gibletzor said:


> I'm having the same issue.  Even with my phone sitting right in front of me whichever one I have connected as the master is perfect, the other will drop out randomly for 1-3 seconds.


yah.   send mine back.   so much for those.


----------



## rhsauer (Oct 25, 2019)

From M&D support regarding the MW07+: “We are currently working with our chip provider to enable AAC and will be able to retroactively update your earphones when we have a solution.”

That’s good news, although they don’t provide a time frame.  They also don’t indicate whether the update will be something the user will be able to apply directly or will require that the earphones be returned to have the update applied. I guess we’ll find out.

EDIT:  In subsequent emails M&D indicated that although they didn't have a time frame, this fix was a priority and indications at this point were that the fix would be able to be applied locally.  Still a bit ambiguous -- but I can see why M&D wouldn't want to make any promises that they aren't sure they can stand by.


----------



## DigDub

AtariPrime said:


> I think you are going to have to prove it...the stock photos make them look like Frankenstein corks.


I think they had to make the buds more visible in marketing material. It actually goes in pretty deep


----------



## galangerz

if you put sound second, what TWS would you get under 150?

looking for something of a beater earphone, and currently thinking of getting the TEVI for (as said from its advertising) 10 hours battery, waterproof and decent mic. anything better or more worth it?


----------



## webvan

DigDub said:


> I think they had to make the buds more visible in marketing material. It actually goes in pretty deep


Good to see! Mine are on their way. It seems you might be able to somewhat "tuck" them against your ear, which I've found with other earbuds/IEMs (like the Havit G1) helps keep them secure.
Looking forward to their SQ and excellent (best in class?) isolation per Rtings.


----------



## RobinFood

Thank you, that's what I ended up doing, I put a super tiny square of black vinyl tape over it. It ended up looking much slicker than I thought it would. It blends in perfectly, let's just see if it will stick for a while.

I noticed when the bt20s connects it automatically starts playing music. Is this normal, none of my other Bluetooth hits the pay button by itself.


----------



## billbishere

bronco1015 said:


> how are the mids compared to the tevis. I wish the tevis had just a bit mor depth to the mids. i'm knitpicking, but that is one thing i'd change.



do the earfuns have dual drivers per side or, just single?  I swear I have read specs over and over on different sites and get a different impression from each one.  It sounds like they are a dual dynamic driver but... maybe not.


----------



## LordToneeus

RobinFood said:


> Thank you, that's what I ended up doing, I put a super tiny square of black vinyl tape over it. It ended up looking much slicker than I thought it would. It blends in perfectly, let's just see if it will stick for a while.
> 
> I noticed when the bt20s connects it automatically starts playing music. Is this normal, none of my other Bluetooth hits the pay button by itself.



Mine does the same.


----------



## RobinFood

Sad day... Looks like my Smabat is back to the es100...


----------



## Luchyres

Slater said:


> They are wide bore, but not short and shallow like most wide bore tips. Also, they taper, unlike most wide bores, allowing a deeper and more stable insertion.
> 
> Basically, they provide the fit of a narrow bore tip (like KZ Starlines for example), but with the sonic improvements of a wide bore.



Thanks for the recommendation and the explanation - I ordered a combo pack as well. @Slater


----------



## RobinFood

Nuarl just announced today their next TWS set, the Nuarl N6 and N6 pro, due for the end of December.

Off the top it doesn't seem to offer much innovation. The case looks smaller, but the shape and size of the buds themselves look the same.

They will use a QCC3020, still using the HDSS tech, and the pro will use a carbon nanotube driver. Battery life is up from 9 hours to 11 hours. It will use usb-c.

They say the sound will be even better, but that is to be heard I guess. Loving the NT01AX and living in Japan, I am pretty excited about it, as I can probably try it in person and Nuarl offers an upgrade plan where you can send in one of your old Nuarl TWS sets and get a huge discount for trading it in. If I like it more I may just trade in and upgrade,  as they still are the best set I own, and I am pretty confident they bested the ST-10 on BT20S, but not the ST-10 on ES100 that has a much leaner mid-bass.

https://www.atpress.ne.jp/news/195600


----------



## Caipirina

RobinFood said:


> Sad day... Looks like my Smabat is back to the es100...



Oh crap, as often as I change my IEMs on my BT20, I shall from now on proceed with even more caution. 

How was that fit for you? I tried with my Rose Masya earbuds and, well, it kinda works, but when I move, I constantly have to re-adjust fit ...


----------



## Soreniglio

d3myz said:


> Ok, i've been listeing to the Earfun Free for almost a day and a half and i'm really wow'd. I'm curious as to how many of you have heard them? I know @hifi80sman has and maybe one or two other, but damn guys, these things sound phenomenal. Like a Tevi with bass, not basshead bass, but really well balanced and textured bass. and excellent mids and highs. Can anyone else weigh in on these. I mean i've listened to roughly 50 so TWS' in this price range and these are now in my top 5. Thoughts?



I have their Bluetooth Headphones, the EarFun Wave, and they're amazing for the price, lovely, balanced audio, and outstanding battery (40 hours).

I suppose they make quality stuff!


----------



## Caipirina

Warm up your wallets and polish your credit cards boys & girls ... 11.11 is only 17 days away and some sellers are already giving us ideas: 

New Mifo 07 DOUBLE balanced! That's somewhat exciting, hoping 120$ is the price they take like 50% off of ... 
I might pass on them though as that mini stem looks like fit issues to me.


----------



## tma6

rhsauer said:


> From M&D support regarding the MW07+: “We are currently working with our chip provider to enable AAC and will be able to retroactively update your earphones when we have a solution.”
> 
> That’s good news, although they don’t provide a time frame.  They also don’t indicate whether the update will be something the user will be able to apply directly or will require that the earphones be returned to have the update applied. I guess we’ll find out.
> 
> EDIT:  In subsequent emails M&D indicated that although they didn't have a time frame, this fix was a priority and indications at this point were that the fix would be able to be applied locally.  Still a bit ambiguous -- but I can see why M&D wouldn't want to make any promises that they aren't sure they can stand by.



this is great to hear. Hopefully comes sooner rather than later. Thanks for finding this out!


----------



## nerdspot

For anyone with industry knowledge, where are all the QCC51xx based TWS earphones? IIRC Qualcomm released them at the same time as the QCC30xx series which is now decently prevalent in the TWS market (mostly QCC3020). I heard some rumors about some difficulties regarding integrating the QCC51xx chips into TWS earphones but nothing concrete. I'm looking forward to the aptX-HD, aptX-LL and aptX-Adaptive support that the QCC51xx series brings.


----------



## Francesco Montanari (Oct 25, 2019)

I only know new vivo tws with new Qualcomm qcc51xx

https://hifigo.com/products/vivo-tw...omm-5126-bluetooth-5-0-truly-wireless-earbuds



nerdspot said:


> For anyone with industry knowledge, where are all the QCC51xx based TWS earphones? IIRC Qualcomm released them at the same time as the QCC30xx series which is now decently prevalent in the TWS market (mostly QCC3020). I heard some rumors about some difficulties regarding integrating the QCC51xx chips into TWS earphones but nothing concrete. I'm looking forward to the aptX-HD, aptX-LL and aptX-Adaptive support that the QCC51xx series brings.


----------



## nerdspot

Francesco Montanari said:


> I only know new vivo tws with new Qualcomm qcc51xx
> 
> https://hifigo.com/products/vivo-tw...omm-5126-bluetooth-5-0-truly-wireless-earbuds



Francesco, nice catch! Interesting that while the chip supports aptX, aptX-HD and aptX-Adaptive, they only chose to license aptX.


----------



## nerdspot

Apparently the Libratone Track Air + has a QCC5121 and is available in UK and perhaps some parts of Europe. Still only aptX but has ANC. Depending on the ANC quality, this might be a good option for those looking for a WF-1000XM3 alternative.


----------



## Grayson73

If you want the SSK, Amazon.com has 3 in stock currently, $21.  They sound amazing.

https://www.amazon.com/SSK-Bluetooth-Headphones-Sweatproof-Microphone/dp/B07R8TPND5/


----------



## TK33

geoxile said:


> Anyone with the MW07 Plus try them for workouts, namely jogging and in-door biking/peddling? I'm trying to decide between the Plus and the Go. The Plus seems to be the same weight as the original MW07 but it's much smaller. And the Go is smaller and lighter. But I would like a decent mic and ANC for the office too.



Is the MW07 Plus smaller than the MW07? I thought they were the same and only the MW07 Go was smaller?


----------



## geoxile

RobinFood said:


> Nuarl just announced today their next TWS set, the Nuarl N6 and N6 pro, due for the end of December.
> 
> Off the top it doesn't seem to offer much innovation. The case looks smaller, but the shape and size of the buds themselves look the same.
> 
> ...



Are these an update to the nt01ax?


----------



## geoxile

TK33 said:


> Is the MW07 Plus smaller than the MW07? I thought they were the same and only the MW07 Go was smaller?


On their site, under specs the mw07 earpieces are listed as 25x22.2x28.3

The mw07 plus is listed as 22.5x19x25. So a little smaller it seems. But the same weight


----------



## Francesco Montanari

nerdspot said:


> Francesco, nice catch! Interesting that while the chip supports aptX, aptX-HD and aptX-Adaptive, they only chose to license aptX.


on their official website they say APTX HD

https://www.vivo.com.cn/vivo/earphone/

Use Gtranslate


----------



## Francesco Montanari

I cooperate with Ali for work and maybe I will receive a coupon for my audience, keep fingers crossed



Caipirina said:


> Warm up your wallets and polish your credit cards boys & girls ... 11.11 is only 17 days away and some sellers are already giving us ideas:
> 
> New Mifo 07 DOUBLE balanced! That's somewhat exciting, hoping 120$ is the price they take like 50% off of ...
> I might pass on them though as that mini stem looks like fit issues to me.


----------



## TK33

geoxile said:


> On their site, under specs the mw07 earpieces are listed as 25x22.2x28.3
> 
> The mw07 plus is listed as 22.5x19x25. So a little smaller it seems. But the same weight



Got it. Thanks for the info  That's a pretty big decrease in size. From reading early reviews, I assumed the size was about the same for the Plus as the older version but it looks like the difference is bigger than I thought.  Still torn on which one I want. May need to take a stroll over to Best Buy this afternoon .


----------



## d3myz

hifi80sman said:


> You'll have to EQ them.  It has potential.


hmm.. not worth it to me. The earfun's sound fantastic and they didn't come with a broken charging case.  I think I probably need to pick up an android device to play music from. any suggestions?


----------



## AtariPrime

DigDub said:


> I think they had to make the buds more visible in marketing material. It actually goes in pretty deep



Cool.  I will grant that it looks better than in the marketing materials.  I've noticed others do that in their marketing materials as well.  I think they are doing themselves a disservice though when they do.  For the most part, the appearance of the product is inconsequential.  People look at the photos to see what the earbud will look like in their ears.  Having the bud pulled out more to make it visible in pics just makes people not want to buy it.  Glad to see this one is not as big as pics would suggest.


----------



## hifi80sman

d3myz said:


> hmm.. not worth it to me. The earfun's sound fantastic and they didn't come with a broken charging case.  I think I probably need to pick up an android device to play music from. any suggestions?


I'd go with one of the LG phones, be it the V30 or anything above that.  I have the Quad DAC G6 (no wireless charging) and it does a great job when I'm looking to use something wired.  It also has aptX HD and LDAC.  My s8 does _*not *_have aptX HD, just regluar aptX and LDAC.  Samsung omitted aptX HD for their proprietary codec, Samsung HD, which pretty much nothing uses.


----------



## hifi80sman

hifi80sman said:


> Looks like a HIFIMAN TWS600 clone.  Anyone want to take a shot?
> https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07P4CHTXP/


Alright, ladies, replying to myself here.  I took the plunge.  Needed some more toilet paper anyway.


----------



## d3myz

bronco1015 said:


> how are the mids compared to the tevis. I wish the tevis had just a bit mor depth to the mids. i'm knitpicking, but that is one thing i'd change.



They sound great, i'd say less low mids than the T5 but with much more sparkle and clarity more V shaped surely. I like these more than my T5 I sold my Tevi's couldn't bear to pay double for an eq'd T5. I think these earfun's sound close to as good as my anbes', I love the mids of my anbes', but the Free's have that definition and sparkle in the high end that give the snare that crack that I love. They don't have as much sub-bass as the anbes/ssk or as much low mid-range, but they sound cleaner and more defined like the tevi. If i had to guess, based on the Freq. response chart I saw of the Tevi's i'd say these have less mids. I don't know if that makes any sense, but pick up a set and try them out. They are big and I only have two sets of tips that work that don't make my ears feel too much pressure. There's no mono mode or volume control, but haven't stopped using them except to charge them once since I got them. Also, They have graphene drivers just like the Tevi's. If you like the Tevi's I think you'll like these. They have more bass, but not an overwhelming amount, but they clarity is really great without being too bright at loud volumes.


----------



## d3myz

hifi80sman said:


> Alright, ladies, replying to myself here.  I took the plunge.  Needed some more toilet paper anyway.


I thought it was in case you $h1t yourself due to the incredible results you are expecting.


----------



## HiFlight

LordToneeus said:


> Mine does the same.





nerdspot said:


> Apparently the Libratone Track Air + has a QCC5121 and is available in UK and perhaps some parts of Europe. Still only aptX but has ANC. Depending on the ANC quality, this might be a good option for those looking for a WF-1000XM3 alternative.


Not only does the Libratone sound great, the Smart ANC works flawlessly.   Makes my car as silent as a tomb.  It was certainly worth the effort in sourcing it from Amazon UK via a German buddy who forwarded them to me.


----------



## webvan

nerdspot said:


> Apparently the Libratone Track Air + has a QCC5121 and is available in UK and perhaps some parts of Europe. Still only aptX but has ANC. Depending on the ANC quality, this might be a good option for those looking for a WF-1000XM3 alternative.


Not really, I posted a detailed comparison a couple of weeks ago here  The Track Air+ were more convenient but I ended up sending back both.


----------



## nerdspot

Francesco Montanari said:


> on their official website they say APTX HD
> 
> https://www.vivo.com.cn/vivo/earphone/
> 
> Use Gtranslate



Ah cool! All the merchant and news sites said aptX, AAC and SBC, which is why I thought they didn't support aptX-HD. Vivo is a big enough company that there is perhaps no point to second guessing their official spec sheet.


----------



## mikp

nerdspot said:


> Ah cool! All the merchant and news sites said aptX, AAC and SBC, which is why I thought they didn't support aptX-HD. Vivo is a big enough company that there is perhaps no point to second guessing their official spec sheet.



their spec does not mention apt-x hd


----------



## nerdspot

webvan said:


> Not really, I posted a detailed comparison a couple of weeks ago here  The Track Air+ were more convenient but I ended up sending back both.


In case others are interested, this is webvan's impressions of the Track Air +.


----------



## hifi80sman

d3myz said:


> I thought it was in case you $h1t yourself due to the incredible results you are expecting.


I'm sure they are tuned waaay differently from the TWS600 and likely just share the same shell/case basics.  Almost certainly made by the same OEM, so we'll see how these fare for a mere $29.90 ($33.90 w/ $4 off coupon).


----------



## nerdspot

Francesco Montanari said:


> on their official website they say APTX HD
> 
> https://www.vivo.com.cn/vivo/earphone/
> 
> Use Gtranslate






mikp said:


> their spec does not mention apt-x hd



Their website that Francesco posted does say aptX HD when translated to English but I don't know any Chinese to verify that the text actually says aptX HD or just says some marketing phrases like "APTX High Definition 6D Sound". /shrug

But like I said, none of the news or merchant websites state aptX-HD support for the Vivo TWS.


----------



## hifi80sman

d3myz said:


> They sound great, i'd say less low mids than the T5 but with much more sparkle and clarity more V shaped surely. I like these more than my T5 I sold my Tevi's couldn't bear to pay double for an eq'd T5. I think these earfun's sound close to as good as my anbes', I love the mids of my anbes', but the Free's have that definition and sparkle in the high end that give the snare that crack that I love. They don't have as much sub-bass as the anbes/ssk or as much low mid-range, but they sound cleaner and more defined like the tevi. If i had to guess, based on the Freq. response chart I saw of the Tevi's i'd say these have less mids. I don't know if that makes any sense, but pick up a set and try them out. They are big and I only have two sets of tips that work that don't make my ears feel too much pressure. There's no mono mode or volume control, but haven't stopped using them except to charge them once since I got them. Also, They have graphene drivers just like the Tevi's. If you like the Tevi's I think you'll like these. They have more bass, but not an overwhelming amount, but they clarity is really great without being too bright at loud volumes.


Have never actually tried the Earfun Free, but I did have the Anker Zolo Liberty, which I think the Earfun Free is a clone of.  They were nice, but Anker's new Liberty series is definitely a step up.

Nice feedback on them.  They are having a promo where you can win a free pair or get up to a 40% off coupon by signing up.  Did you use a promo code?


----------



## d3myz

Whoa! These Chisana's are Bass Canons!, but they also have pretty dang good mids, they highs are ok, they don't sound muddy, but dang. and they are LOUD.


----------



## Francesco Montanari (Oct 25, 2019)

you're right, but official website translation seems pretty clear... so maybe I need to buy them to know 



nerdspot said:


> Their website that Francesco posted does say aptX HD when translated to English but I don't know any Chinese to verify that the text actually says aptX HD or just says some marketing phrases like "APTX High Definition 6D Sound". /shrug
> 
> But like I said, none of the news or merchant websites state aptX-HD support for the Vivo TWS.


----------



## mikp

nerdspot said:


> Their website that Francesco posted does say aptX HD when translated to English but I don't know any Chinese to verify that the text actually says aptX HD or just says some marketing phrases like "APTX High Definition 6D Sound". /shrug
> 
> But like I said, none of the news or merchant websites state aptX-HD support for the Vivo TWS.



just says apt-x in their spec, so who knows- Seen many mention apt-x as hd sound, but still normal apt-x- Something clearly has happened regarding qcc5xxx series and apt-x hd, Early in the year they mentioned apt-x hd, but now comes without it.


----------



## nerdspot (Oct 25, 2019)

mikp said:


> just says apt-x in their spec, so who knows- Seen many mention apt-x as hd sound, but still normal apt-x- Something clearly has happened regarding qcc5xxx series and apt-x hd, Early in the year they mentioned apt-x hd, but now comes without it.


I think this is Qualcomm being Qualcomm. I really wish Bluetooth SIG would finish their rewrite and render aptX moot. I can't wait for the day when we can stop having SBC HD/aptX/LDAC/AAC (Apple)/AAC (Android) arguments and just focus on the sound, fit, comfort etc for TWS buds.


----------



## geoxile

nerdspot said:


> I think this is Qualcomm being Qualcomm. I really wish Bluetooth SIG would finish their rewrite and render aptX moot. I can't wait for the day when we can stop having SBC HD/aptX/LDAC/AAC (Apple)/AAC (Android) arguments and just focus on the sound, fit, comfort etc for TWS buds.


TWS is a Qualcomm trademark. And they'll probably continue to push aptx because they have pretty tight control over the bt and phone soc ecosystem. Their TWS Plus feature only works if you have a TWS Plus bluetooth chipset like the qcc30xx or qcc51xx and use it with another qualcomm receiver, namely the ones found in Snapdrsgon platforms for mobile devices.


----------



## nerdspot

geoxile said:


> TWS is a Qualcomm trademark.


True Wireless Stereo may be a Qualcomm trademark but that will not stop others from creating new true wireless specs or features (see Apple H1, W1, Airoha's true wireless series etc.). I used TWS in a colloquial sense to refer to true wireless earbuds and did not mean to reference any trademarked technology.



geoxile said:


> And they'll probably continue to push aptx because they have pretty tight control over the bt and phone soc ecosystem. Their TWS Plus feature only works if you have a TWS Plus bluetooth chipset like the qcc30xx or qcc51xx and use it with another qualcomm receiver, namely the ones found in Snapdrsgon platforms for mobile devices.


Even that is not guaranteed. Pixel 3 (and XL) have the Snapdragon 845 (which has True Wireless Stereo and True Wireless Stereo Plus support) but the devices themselves don't have support for those features. I'm not sure about Pixel 4 (and the XL) but it's not in their spec sheet either. Although I think Google might enable them sooner than later to support the new Pixel Buds (the true wireless ones)


----------



## assassin10000

RobinFood said:


> Sad day... Looks like my Smabat is back to the es100...



Got any soldering/diy skills? You can change the hooks for ones from a mmcx cable. More comfortable but not as secure for high energy activities.

 



Caipirina said:


> Oh crap, as often as I change my IEMs on my BT20, I shall from now on proceed with even more caution.
> 
> How was that fit for you? I tried with my Rose Masya earbuds and, well, it kinda works, but when I move, I constantly have to re-adjust fit ...



Got some automotive pin tools? Makes removal way easier.


----------



## mattedialdoc

hifi80sman said:


> So...the KOSETON.  For $30, I think I'm going to keep them.  They are certainly not world-beaters, but for a solid gym/yard work pair, I think they fit the bill.  They do not come close to dethroning the current value picks (Anbes 359, MPOW T5).
> 
> - They don't stick out much and look fairly sleek.
> - Deep, resonating bass.
> ...




My Koseton just arrived. Mmmmmm not a keeper. These are very muddy to me. I compared them to the MPOW T5 and the T5 are such a better sound. Crisper vocal, clean mids and sharper throughout than the Koseton. It was worth a shot.


----------



## d3myz

hifi80sman said:


> Have never actually tried the Earfun Free, but I did have the Anker Zolo Liberty, which I think the Earfun Free is a clone of.  They were nice, but Anker's new Liberty series is definitely a step up.
> 
> Nice feedback on them.  They are having a promo where you can win a free pair or get up to a 40% off coupon by signing up.  Did you use a promo code?


I did not. i'll have to do that. scored $5 off. not bad, thanks for the heads up, you should check them out, you can always pulls the highs down like you like it.


----------



## billbishere (Oct 25, 2019)

mattedialdoc said:


> My Koseton just arrived. Mmmmmm not a keeper. These are very muddy to me. I compared them to the MPOW T5 and the T5 are such a better sound. Crisper vocal, clean mids and sharper throughout than the Koseton. It was worth a shot.


after my major connection issues with koeston I returned them and picked up the T5s.  they will be here later today. 

Tho In didn't think the Koeston sounded bad it was just constant connection problem.


----------



## Jazzi

TK33 said:


> Got it. Thanks for the info  That's a pretty big decrease in size. From reading early reviews, I assumed the size was about the same for the Plus as the older version but it looks like the difference is bigger than I thought.  Still torn on which one I want. May need to take a stroll over to Best Buy this afternoon .



I stopped in my local Best Buy on Wednesday evening.  They had the GO in stock, but not the PLUS.  Of course, YMMV.


----------



## TK33

Just stopped by Best Buy and picked up a pair of the MW07 Go and am really enjoying these right now.  These 10mm drivers deliver great bass for the size of these earbuds (not a basshead by any means though and I do EQ down the bass a bit on my MTWs as the mids on the Senns sound muddy to me without EQ).  I've literally been listening for only 5 minutes but everything sounds well balanced and crisp.  Very happy right now.  I use Andoird and don't use any Apple devices so the lack of AAC did not really bother me.  Isolation is great as well.  I sit on an open trading floor with people talking and the TV on all day but I can't hear any of that right now.  

I was not a fan of the stock tip so I put some CP360s (large) on hem and they had no issues fitting in the case, even with the smaller form factor of the case.


----------



## hifi80sman

mattedialdoc said:


> My Koseton just arrived. Mmmmmm not a keeper. These are very muddy to me. I compared them to the MPOW T5 and the T5 are such a better sound. Crisper vocal, clean mids and sharper throughout than the Koseton. It was worth a shot.


Yeah, it needs some serious EQ.

I'm actually going to return as well, given they still only sound "decent" with extreme EQ.  Also, mine have started to develop driver flex, which I'm not a big fan of (who is?!).  I was thinking about keeping them for the gym/yard work, but I have some I already use for those purposes that sound better without having to mess with the EQ settings.  Meh, tapping out on these.


----------



## d3myz

Anyone here have the LG V35 ThinQ? i'm looking at purchasing one as my AptX, LDAC etc. player. Need something around $200 that has a Qualcomm 845 chipset. I heard it mentioned earlier in the thread that TWS+ is supposed to work on the 845 and later, but has not. Is that correct? Thoughts? Suggestions?


----------



## hifi80sman

d3myz said:


> Anyone here have the LG V35 ThinQ? i'm looking at purchasing one as my AptX, LDAC etc. player. Need something around $200 that has a Qualcomm 845 chipset. I heard it mentioned earlier in the thread that TWS+ is supposed to work on the 845 and later, but has not. Is that correct? Thoughts? Suggestions?


Actually, the product brief for both the 845 and 855 do NOT show TWS+, just TWS.  Oddly, it seems to be available on some of their lesser SoCs (like the 730, 712, 675, 665).  The problem is the device manufacturer needs to specifically enable that connectivity, which seems to be a difficult determination.  Most people simply connect earbud to device, and if there are no drop outs or sync issues, they're good, so it's not a huge marketing point for them (only really appeals to the niche tech/hobby markets).


----------



## tma6 (Oct 26, 2019)

Alright guys, here's my review of the Master & Dynamic MW07 PLUS:

Just want to start with a big caveat - as of right now, the MW07 PLUS are not compatible with the AAC codec. However, @rhsauer on this thread has been in contact with M&D and they've said that they're working on a fix that could be applied locally. Still, they have not provided a release date for this fix so it's definitely something to be wary of. As a result, if you care about AAC codec support you might want to wait on these until they've affirmatively enabled it.

Now, I'm going to go through everything in detail for those who have not heard these or the previous MW07s, but for those who had the first version the sound quality is very similar, perhaps with even slightly cleaner bass (though this could just be a bit of placebo effect). Also, before getting into my full impressions I wanted to say that at $300, the MW07 PLUS are in no way the best value on the market, particularly in their current state. That being said, I absolutely love these things and they have corrected pretty much everything that frustrated me with the previous version.

Sound Quality: Overall, even without AAC, the sound quality on the MW07 PLUS is phenomenal, even when compared with some good quality wired IEMs. I would describe the sound as silky - music just seems to flow through these with ease. It's a thoroughly addicting slightly U shaped signature.

Bass: The bass on the MW07 PLUS is the absolute best I've heard on any TWS earbud perhaps outside of the Sennheiser Momentum. It's thick, weighty, and punchy, while also remaining detailed when called upon to do so. It also never bleeds into the other ranges, while adding a beautiful richness to lower vocals and instruments. Ever since I started trying out cheaper alternatives to the first generation MW07 because of it's terrible battery life and call quality, I have not been able to find anything that comes close.

Mids: The mids are slightly pulled back in the mix, so some mid-heads might be slightly disappointed out of the box. However, the good thing is that they still remained natural, clear, and detailed enough that if you want to EQ for a mid-preference sound, the MW07 respond excellently. Further, the actual timbre of instruments and vocals is realistic and musical. The mids don't feel dry here like they sometimes do, for instance, on my Lypertek Tevis, which have a much more mid-forward presentation that is in some respects a bit more exacting than the MW07s. In summary, very good mids that benefit greatly from some slight EQ in their favor.

Highs: The highs are excellent, particularly for TWS. They're crisp, clean, and precise, with very good detail retrieval that rival some of my better wired IEMs - e.g. my Final Audio E4000s (which are amazing for the price btw). They also never become harsh, though perhaps on a few songs they are a bit "hot" in the mid-highs, but nothing a notch or two down in volume couldn't solve. All in all, the highs are excellent, cymbals don't sound too splashy, and high string instruments sound crispy.

Soundstage/imaging: TWS always have difficulty with soundstage and wired IEMs will still provide better soudstage in general. That being said, the MW07 PLUS and Sennheiser Momentum are the two best I've heard for soundstage (unsurprisingly, as they are also the most expensive out there). I do think the Sennheiser edge out the MW07 slightly, but it's super close. The MW07 have great width, but it's not just wide for no reason. It feels like everything is placed around the sound space with intention. The imaging is great and creates a nice feeling of separation between various instruments. The one thing I will say here is that the MW07 PLUS have fantastic dynamics. It just seems like emphasis is always placed correctly on the different instruments and vocals in the mix, and the range from quiet to loud is very precisely navigated.

Volume: I usually don't think to much about volume, but coming from the Tevi I do think these could use a couple more notches at the top end. I listened to these for the most part at like 90% volume (which could be bad?), but I didn't feel they were too loud and for some songs I would've wanted a bit more.

Overall, the sound quality is still top notch on these, even without AAC on an iPhone. It's one of my favorite sound signatures for any IEM that I own and I can't stop listening to them.

Look/Fit: I absolutely love how these things look. I have the blue steel acetate and it looks so nice. It's definitely a distinctive design and some many not love it, as it is quite large in your ears. However, the buds don't stick out as they lie kind of flat against your ear. Regarding comfort, this was actually a bit of a mixed bag for me. The previous version of the MW07 seemed to fit me much better for some reason and I do occasionally start to feel the wing tips a bit against the back of my ears after longer listening sessions. Still, I've managed to wear them for long periods of time without too much discomfort. Also, these are very good for working out with, as they are not too heavy, the wing tips do a great job of keeping them in your ears, and sweat did nothing to them.

Extra Features: The MW07 PLUS has both ANC and Ambient Listening features. The ANC is mild, but it definitely makes a difference. It's not so great with short loud noises like a honk, siren, or yell, but with more prolonged sounds like the whir of a washing machine, the rumble of a subway, or cars continuously driving by it actually does a reasonable job. I definitely felt I could listen to music on the subway at a lower volume than usual. Ambient Listening is also great, particularly for awareness of oncoming traffic, though if you want to hear what people are saying around you, you do have to turn the volume of your music way down. One great thing here though is that neither mode significantly impacts the sound quality.

Battery: I really can't kill these things in normal use. I also put them on at 90% volume with ANC on and left them out for 6 hours and still had 30% battery left when I picked them up again. That 10 hour battery life claim is legit. I'm so happy about this too since the original MW07 barely lasted 2.5 hours.

Case: The case is awesome in my opinion. However, since it's stainless steel it definitely scratches up real quick. This time around I've been using the extra included cloth case, which is surprisingly nice and easy to use, though I recognize how ridiculous it is to have a case for your case. Still, I love the design and the white interior of the case is much more preferable and smudge resistant than the first-gen case. Also USB-C.

Microphone/Calls: I can affirmatively say that these are fantastic for phone calls. I can't tell if they are as good as Airpods, but they work so well and it's awesome. I went into a crowded and very loud food market in NYC while on the phone, and the person on the other end could barely hear the crowd around me and heard me clearly. I kind of couldn't believe it. The one thing I will say about the calls is that there are some weird artifacts and even a bit of brief cutting out that you hear on your end sometimes, but I'm very satisfied with the calls overall. This might also have to do with the far from perfect connectivity, which I will get to next.

Connectivity: Unfortunately, I did run into some connectivity issues in my first 4 days of using the MW07 PLUS. The connection would become a bit spotty after phone calls and weirdly when I would take my phone out of my pocket and put it back in while walking around NYC. I never had issues when I was indoors alone, but while outside it would sometimes get frustrating. Strangely enough, it got better after I updated my iPhone to iOS 13.2, so this could also be a current issue with iOS, but not sure. I hope this gets better over time, I don't want to return these because of crappy connectivity. Further, the MW07 PLUS inexplicably got rid of multi-point capabilities, even though they were present on the previous version. Also, as previously mentioned, while these have Apt-X, they currently don't support AAC, which is just dumb for a product this expensive. One good thing is that there’s zero lag in watching videos or playing games on both phone and laptop. Overall, however, definitely the weakest aspect of these TWS.

Conclusion: I remember back when I first got the original MW07s and often thought to myself that they would be the perfect set of TWS if they had longer battery life and better call quality. The MW07 PLUS fix those two major issues in a big way and even add in some useful features such as ANC and Ambient Listening mode. However, they come up short of being perfect because of the connectivity issues I mentioned. Even so, for me, I just love the sound of these things and now with the excellent battery life I never have to worry about them dying or that dreaded low battery sound that the old ones use to make. It's tough to say that they're worth it for $300 given everything else that's out there. But if they fix the connectivity issues or if you get a pair that doesn't have these issues it's also tough to say that they're not worth it.


----------



## vladzakhar

Picked up MW07 Go. Loving the sound with my Iphone X. If it's SBC codec, it's still sounds better then any other of TWS I tried before with AAC support. And the buds are loud. I am on 50% volume and it's loud for me.
Fit is great and secure. Isolation is great too. No hiss, dead silent between songs. Case is small and I like the fabric finish. Also, I can fit any of my own tips in the case. Will report on actual battery life later. Exited so far.


----------



## XGUGU

hifi80sman said:


> Actually, the product brief for both the 845 and 855 do NOT show TWS+, just TWS.  Oddly, it seems to be available on some of their lesser SoCs (like the 730, 712, 675, 665).  The problem is the device manufacturer needs to specifically enable that connectivity, which seems to be a difficult determination.  Most people simply connect earbud to device, and if there are no drop outs or sync issues, they're good, so it's not a huge marketing point for them (only really appeals to the niche tech/hobby markets).


TWS+ while no listed, its indeed a feature that the SD855 and 845 are capable of.   My OnePlus 7 Pro shipped without TWS+ on Android Pie. After updating to Android 10, it became a feature in my phone. So It's basically OS developers who enable the option to use the codec.


----------



## rhsauer

tma6 said:


> Alright guys, here's my review of the Master & Dynamic MW07 PLUS:
> 
> Just want to start with a big caveat - as of right now, the MW07 PLUS are not compatible with the AAC codec. However, @rhsauer on this thread has been in contact with M&D and they've said that they're working on a fix that could be applied locally. Still, they have not provided a release date for this fix so it's definitely something to be wary of. As a result, if you care about AAC codec support you might want to wait on these until they've affirmatively enabled it.
> 
> ...



Thanks for the _very_ thorough review, and for the shout-out! I have one question: since you have both the original MW07s and the MW07+, can you notice any/much degradation in sound as result of the absence of AAC on the +?

M&D have told me they can’t give a time frame for the implementation of AAC, so I’m on the fence about whether I should return them now and buy them again if and when that issue is resolved or just keep them in the hope and expectation that it _will_ be resolved. If AAC is never implemented it would be good to have an idea of how much difference that makes. Thanks again for the thoughtful review.


----------



## vladzakhar

Hey Guys, does somebody have both MW07 Go and Plus. Is it worth it the $100 to upgrade to Plus from Go?


----------



## RobinFood

Caipirina said:


> Oh crap, as often as I change my IEMs on my BT20, I shall from now on proceed with even more caution.
> 
> How was that fit for you? I tried with my Rose Masya earbuds and, well, it kinda works, but when I move, I constantly have to re-adjust fit ...



The fit was super snug, more than normal. It kind of felt like I was passing the buds down on my ears with my fingers. It made the bass huge but hurt the natural bass speed of the ST-10. 

The snugness made it somewhat of a hassle slipping on though, and I did get a little discomfort after an hour or so, but nothing I think I wouldn't have gotten used to had I had it for a while.

I did have to put the right bud on the left receiver and vice versa though and reverse the side, otherwise the earbud was too high up.


----------



## RobinFood

geoxile said:


> Are these an update to the nt01ax?



Seems like a brand new product, probably their new flagship. Mostly looking at updated drivers and USB c. The qcc3020 feels like a downgrade though since the NT01AX is using the qcc3026.


----------



## RobinFood

assassin10000 said:


> Got any soldering/diy skills? You can change the hooks for ones from a mmcx cable. More comfortable but not as secure for high energy activities.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I have all the tools for soldering and some extra cables, but my soldering is atrocious. It works but looks horrible.

I will see first though if I can work something out with the vendor, I don't think this is normal since mmcx cable are made to be detached.


----------



## geoxile

RobinFood said:


> Seems like a brand new product, probably their new flagship. Mostly looking at updated drivers and USB c. The qcc3020 feels like a downgrade though since the NT01AX is using the qcc3026.


Yea that seems like a disappointment. Though I think the difference is mostly just the socket/interface of the chip. Too bad there's no gold one like the NT01AX, but I've read it can flake off


----------



## C_Lindbergh

vladzakhar said:


> Hey Guys, does somebody have both MW07 Go and Plus. Is it worth it the $100 to upgrade to Plus from Go?



Just looking at the spec sheet it' deffo seems worth it, I mean you gain almost twice as much battery life, ANC and ambient mode.


----------



## howdy

Was considering bring back the Power beats pro today but decided to do some tip rolling and went through the hundreds I've 
accumulated over the years and not one did it. I then said let's give the stock ones a whirl (which in hindsight I should had done at first) and Wham-O, the highs are tamed down and now MUCH more listenable.

I will give it a few more days and if they keep sounding how they are now I will keep them. Everything else I really like about them. I've had them in my ears for about 4 hours now and still very comfortable and sounding great. I don't expect them to sound great like my Sonys or Sennheisers but they are good!


----------



## bubsdaddy

Grayson73 said:


> If you want the SSK, Amazon.com has 3 in stock currently, $21.  They sound amazing.
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/SSK-Bluetooth-Headphones-Sweatproof-Microphone/dp/B07R8TPND5/


Thanks! I already have the Anbes 359 but my wife likes white so I snagged a pair.


----------



## XGUGU




----------



## Luchyres

RobinFood said:


> Nuarl just announced today their next TWS set, the Nuarl N6 and N6 pro, due for the end of December.
> 
> Off the top it doesn't seem to offer much innovation. The case looks smaller, but the shape and size of the buds themselves look the same.
> 
> ...



Thank you! I still love my Nuarl and am 100% going to buy these at launchm


----------



## srinivasvignesh

Thanks for the detailed review. While I am waiting for my MW07+ to reach India in a week (getting it through somebody who is traveling from US), this review makes me super excited. It seems to definitely check every box that I would want. Great sound, excellent battery etc. The improvement in call quality is also encouraging as I am on calls quite a bit. Well, the multi point would have made it perfect. Maybe they can add it back along with AAC. Fingers crossed.




tma6 said:


> Alright guys, here's my review of the Master & Dynamic MW07 PLUS:
> 
> Just want to start with a big caveat - as of right now, the MW07 PLUS are not compatible with the AAC codec. However, @rhsauer on this thread has been in contact with M&D and they've said that they're working on a fix that could be applied locally. Still, they have not provided a release date for this fix so it's definitely something to be wary of. As a result, if you care about AAC codec support you might want to wait on these until they've affirmatively enabled it.
> 
> ...


----------



## tma6

rhsauer said:


> Thanks for the _very_ thorough review, and for the shout-out! I have one question: since you have both the original MW07s and the MW07+, can you notice any/much degradation in sound as result of the absence of AAC on the +?
> 
> M&D have told me they can’t give a time frame for the implementation of AAC, so I’m on the fence about whether I should return them now and buy them again if and when that issue is resolved or just keep them in the hope and expectation that it _will_ be resolved. If AAC is never implemented it would be good to have an idea of how much difference that makes. Thanks again for the thoughtful review.



Of course man! Thanks for reading. Just went back and forth again. To my ears it was a little difficult to hear too much of a difference, particularly because the old ones used BT 4.2 which created a very slight hiss when you put them on, so that’s gone now. I actually feel that the bass is a bit cleaner on the PLUS, and maybe the soundstage ever so slightly wider on the originals. But if I’m being completely honest it wasn’t supper apparent. Maybe some people with more discerning ears can hear the difference more clearly. Regardless, the PLUS sound great to me even though the SBC codec is supposed to compress music in a way that could diminish certain high frequencies.


----------



## srinivasvignesh

tma6 said:


> Of course man! Thanks for reading. Just went back and forth again. To my ears it was a little difficult to hear too much of a difference, particularly because the old ones used BT 4.2 which created a very slight hiss when you put them on, so that’s gone now. I actually feel that the bass is a bit cleaner on the PLUS, and maybe the soundstage ever so slightly wider on the originals. But if I’m being completely honest it wasn’t supper apparent. Maybe some people with more discerning ears can hear the difference more clearly. Regardless, the PLUS sound great to me even though the SBC codec is supposed to compress music in a way that could diminish certain high frequencies.



Did you get a chance to test the range claim of 100 ft?


----------



## tma6

srinivasvignesh said:


> Did you get a chance to test the range claim of 100 ft?



Kind of, I played basketball with them on and ran a bit away from my phone and they definitely cut out at points. I am having connectivity issues tho so that could be it too. Can’t say for sure whether they go 100ft.


----------



## FYLegend

After various combinations of foam and filters, I finally got the dud Sabbat E12 Ultra to sound more or less balanced. Not completely perfect but much better than before. Removing the filter on the right side didn't even the sound by much so I had to shove some foam onto the left side. Since I've modded them I can't give a 1:1 impression of them but here are some brief impressions (foam under right bud, mesh filters covering both buds):
- Deep and nicely controled sub-bass, clean mids and highs albeit somewhat recessed (probably due to the filtering above all things), decent soundstage and treble detail.
- Some clipping/buzzing/"puffing" with piano sounds (seems to happen a lot with TWS I've tried)
- When paired, they will be stored as two Sabbat E12 Ultras on your Bluetooth list. On Android, I would suggest you rename them according to the left or right earbud. Again, it's "true single-bud mode" but not true _mono_ mode because it's still playing audio on the respective channel instead of downmixing it. The process is not as seamless as Jabees Firefly Pro which switches with almost no interruption except downmix to mono.

Other notes:
- Camo case is just a coating on the shell and case, and will wear down over time.
- With some 10W/15W wireless chargers (I bought a 2-pack from Seneo), these work nicely, but not Samsung's wireless charging stand (to short to lean, but I tried placing it in the middle flat and still no charge). It would sometimes stop charging with my ADATA charger, which seems sensitive to "foreign objects" (it charged the original E12's case fine, so maybe it's the coat of paint...)
- Connection and latency with Windows 10 is outstanding. Latency is considerably worse on my Galaxy Note 9, connection _slightly _worse but still good for the most part. The death grip issue I described earlier doesn't happen often, and might be associated with one bud more than the other... If all TWS have such latency on 2018 Android devices for gaming, I'm disappointed, since this is hardly noticeable with Windows 10.
- Earbuds don't power off when case is depleted of battery
- Case supports USB Type C to Type C cable connection =  I can charge off my laptop or any Type-C PD charger.
- Medium red eartips fit the best for me with the best seal and bass. They do loosen up in my ears after shaking my head though.

vs Jabees Firefly Pro
- I prefer the detailed, relatively balanced sound of the Sabbats. The Jabees are too bloated in the midbass but do work nicely for on-the-go listening sessions, despite mediocre isolation. They also fit better in my ears and don't loosen up like the Sabbats.
- Jabees struggles with Windows 10 SBC, probably because the latency is minimized compared to Android and it can't keep up. I also had to disable absolute volume to avoid nasty distortion with SBC (which doesn't happen at all with AAC).
- Jabees has ambient sound but its passive isolation is already worse than E12 Ultra. The ambient sound is also glitchy in direct sunlight/strong sun reflections.
- Call quality is worse on the Firefly Pro but the recipient still had difficulty hearing the E12 Ultra while commuting.

I would still steer caution with buying these off Aliexpress, since they might be factory seconds or bad runs. Amazon.ca has finally listed E12 Ultras in their warehouse (no camo though), albeit under a third-party seller for 108$.



d3myz said:


> Ok, i've been listeing to the Earfun Free for almost a day and a half and i'm really wow'd. I'm curious as to how many of you have heard them? I know @hifi80sman has and maybe one or two other, but damn guys, these things sound phenomenal. Like a Tevi with bass, not basshead bass, but really well balanced and textured bass. and excellent mids and highs. Can anyone else weigh in on these. I mean i've listened to roughly 50 so TWS' in this price range and these are now in my top 5. Thoughts?


hmm, I'm wondering if they improved the tuning on recent batches or the regulars just sound better. I had the Oluv edition and it was dead flat but bass was sloppy and soundstage congested. Great isolation if you can get around driver pressure though. Broke with a 10cm drop onto my desk and they sent me a refund saying they were unable to replace the Oluv edition... They said the same to other users who ran into similar problems (no audio playback on right bud, but still communicates w/ left bud) but it was only later that people were able to negotiate getting a standard version as a replacement.


----------



## BigZ12 (Oct 26, 2019)

rhsauer said:


> i don’t want to sound like a conspiracy theorist (although that seems to be in fashion now), but it feels like more than a coincidence that Apt-x was silently removed from Macs in the Catalina update and, at virtually the same time, more high end earphones (like these and the Libratone Track Air+) are shopping with Apt-x but without AAC. Codec wars — not good for the consumer.





d3myz said:


> That's why i'm staying on Mojave for a while. My BT explorer works fine and I haven't seen this talked about on here, but all I have to do to figure out what codec i'm using it play a song and hit option and click on Bluetooth then highlight my device. Is that the same method you are using? I know to force AptX and changed the bit rate of AAC etc. I have to use the BT explorer in the dev tools.





hifi80sman said:


> I find this odd, as Qualcomm and Apple have settled their lawsuit.  Maybe Apple is working on their lossless codec...



Ok guys. I'm 99,9% sure that if you enable AptX in MacOS Catalina, you actually get AptX. Even if it shows SBC when using the "hold Alt and press bluetooth device to see codec in use" method.

You remember I was talking A LOT about the SBC noise with the Senn' MTWs (NFMI)? (the "metallic" noise, almost like something is loose inside the headphone/bud with deep punchy bass?)

Lypertek Tevi (AptX/AAC) and BeatsX (AAC) were used to test. 
- First I disabled both AptX and AAC: SBC noise in both headsets, no doubt about it.
- I then disabled AptX and enabled AAC: Catalina shows both use/support AAC, and no noise what so ever in either headset.
- And the exciting bit. I enabled Force use of AptX and disabled AAC: The Tevi plays compact and punchy bass with NO SBC- or other noise at all! Clean as a whistle.
The BeatsX have the same amount of SBC noise as in the first test with both disabled. (that proves that it's not AAC in use.)

The test song where I hear this very easily: (You need high volume to hear the "clinking metallic noise" clearly.)


You also hear it when using low frequencies with this: https://www.szynalski.com/tone-generator/


----------



## billbishere

I swear - I am having some bad luck or just getting what I am paying for in these cheap TWS.  I dont think sound is really a big problem with a lot of these, with some sounding right down right but even the others sounding ok.  I think where the issue's are is with everything else.  After having connectivity issues with the Koseton's - I went ahead and got the Mpow T5's.  While I like the sound of the Mpow even better than the others, they have also had a wonky issue.  They are supposed to be IPx7 Waterproof.  I took a shower with them today and as soon as they got wet the right ear bud volume got real low in comparison to the right.  Not matter what I did it stayed low.  However I let them sit and dry out and now it's fine...  I dont get it.  Nor do I really know what I want to do as the sound on the Mpows is good for TWS.  

I may end up just saying screw it and return both and just stick with bigger names.  My 1more have never had any such issues, but they are not water resistant.  I may just go for the MW07 GO's.  There is a lot to like about those outside of the $200 price tag.  But I would hope that they would not have the wonky stuff and and I sure they sound fantastic!


----------



## mattedialdoc

Do you think maybe some water just got into the tip and that muffled the volume? Just a guess. I’ve never showered with earbuds.





billbishere said:


> I swear - I am having some bad luck or just getting what I am paying for in these cheap TWS.  I dont think sound is really a big problem with a lot of these, with some sounding right down right but even the others sounding ok.  I think where the issue's are is with everything else.  After having connectivity issues with the Koseton's - I went ahead and got the Mpow T5's.  While I like the sound of the Mpow even better than the others, they have also had a wonky issue.  They are supposed to be IPx7 Waterproof.  I took a shower with them today and as soon as they got wet the right ear bud volume got real low in comparison to the right.  Not matter what I did it stayed low.  However I let them sit and dry out and now it's fine...  I dont get it.  Nor do I really know what I want to do as the sound on the Mpows is good for TWS.
> 
> I may end up just saying screw it and return both and just stick with bigger names.  My 1more have never had any such issues, but they are not water resistant.  I may just go for the MW07 GO's.  There is a lot to like about those outside of the $200 price tag.  But I would hope that they would not have the wonky stuff and and I sure they sound fantastic!


----------



## billbishere

mattedialdoc said:


> Do you think maybe some water just got into the tip and that muffled the volume? Just a guess. I’ve never showered with earbuds.



nope.  I made sure of it.  cleared out ear canals and popped off the silicon tip on the earbud and dryed off to be sure. only after sitting for about an hour did it go back to normal.  i will test again later on.  

One of the reasons I went with the Mpow was the IPx7 for showering.  My Jaybird Tarah Pro's are Ipx7, been showering with those for about a year without issue.


----------



## noobandroid

i'm looking for a good option that has the looks of something like the KZ BTE, and jaybirds / plantronics are really bad sounding.. any suggestions?


----------



## TK33

Anyone with the MW07 Go have issues with the battery not charging fully? My battery will not go above 92% and I left it plugged in overnight and all morning.  I did remove the little plastic tabs yesterday when I noticed it wasnt charging after an hour or two (was at 80% when I got it).  Wondering if I got a lemon.  Really like them otherwise and will probably do an exchange Monday.


----------



## vladzakhar

My unit did the same, charging only to 90%. I think it's a false battery info. Battery still charging 100%. 
I picked up MW07 plus today. So far I like it better then Go. It has very useful futures like proximity censor, ANC and Ambient, also the case battery is larger.
The buds are a little bigger but still comfy. The sound is the same for both versions. 
Also, I noticed that they connect to my phone differently. GO connected the both buds together and Plus connected as separate units. 
I want to check how stable is connection outside and how good is ANC on my commute.
Then I'll decide which version is going back to the store.


----------



## Timastyle (Oct 26, 2019)

Hoping the brain trust here can help me find a good pair of buds. Currently have the CA Melomania and while I love the SQ, there are things I don't like. The fit in my ears is not great and I've tried a few different tips. The Comply noise isolation medium CA recommends in their FAQ worked great but has worn down in about 8 days. I've also tried the SpinFit 155s but can't get the seal and positioning to get the full sound out of the buds (mainly bass). Call quality has also gone south. When I first got them, I was told call quality was great on the far end. Now that my return window is gone, I'm being told that the background noise is pretty bad and the person is getting bad reverb on their end. Looking for suggestions on something else and below is what I'd like for it to have:

1.  Good SQ (not an audiophile but want something on par with the Melomania)
2.  Good call quality
3. Multipoint (nice to have not a must have). I'm also surprised how few devices actually have this available
4. Ambient mode to able to hear the music and surrounding
5. Noise isolation to tune out surrounding noise
6.  I like the wired IEM bud looks more than the standard TWE but not a deal breaker the other way

The Shanling MTW100 seems to hit all these minus the multipoint. Any others to look at?

Thanks!


----------



## dweaver

XGUGU said:


>



Great review, love the speaking test. These look to be about the best for talking I have heard and the way he described the sound compared to the Momentum True Wireless has me very interested as I hear my MTW exactly like he describes.


----------



## Slater

cwill said:


> Great, thank you! Hopefully they'll be my new favorites as I use wide bore also.





mattedialdoc said:


> Thanks. Kind of you ! I went ahead and ordered some before they sell out!



FYI, as best as I can measure, the Auvio sizes are as follows:

S (11.5mm)
M (12.5mm)
L (13.5mm)


----------



## JOSELICHI

If you are interested... TRANYA RIMOR, with ANC. Presale.

https://www.tranya.com/rimor-true-wirless-earbuds-p0022.html


----------



## TK33

vladzakhar said:


> My unit did the same, charging only to 90%. I think it's a false battery info. Battery still charging 100%.
> I picked up MW07 plus today. So far I like it better then Go. It has very useful futures like proximity censor, ANC and Ambient, also the case battery is larger.
> The buds are a little bigger but still comfy. The sound is the same for both versions.
> Also, I noticed that they connect to my phone differently. GO connected the both buds together and Plus connected as separate units.
> ...



I am going to try draining the battery to 0 and recharging but if the steel blue mw07 plus shows up at Best Buy here I was also thinking about trying out the MW07 Plus. For $200; the battery info is bugging me.


----------



## gibletzor

JOSELICHI said:


> If you are interested... TRANYA RIMOR, with ANC. Presale.
> 
> https://www.tranya.com/rimor-true-wirless-earbuds-p0022.html



10mm driver too!  If they're essentially an upgraded B530, then hells yes!


----------



## Bhelpoori

gibletzor said:


> 10mm driver too!  If they're essentially an upgraded B530, then hells yes!


Does this really have noise cancellation for outside sounds? It looks like from the specs and reading it carefully, it just has microphone CVC???


----------



## gibletzor

Bhelpoori said:


> Does this really have noise cancellation for outside sounds? It looks like from the specs and reading it carefully, it just has microphone CVC???



Yeah I'm not sure if it's actual ANC.  They call it ENC or Environmental Noise Cancellation.  That could just be a fancy word for good passive isolation.  lol


----------



## Minarets

Hmm, I’m needing something for flights.  I fly a lot for work and im tired of overheads. AirPods for daily use and phone calls but want something that sounds great for flying.  The MW07 Go and Earfun free sound intriguing.  
I have the Sony wf1000xm3 but they didn’t get loud enough on flights with my iPhone.  I could hardly hear any music even with the ANC on. 

I’d really like the KX e10 but not with the connectivity issues they are having. 




What say you head fi?


----------



## vladzakhar

For flights nothing is better then Sony WH-1000XM3 over the ears. No wireless earbuds can achieve that level of isolation. ANC in MW07 plus is a joke. I don't hear any difference on and off.
They isolate good, but not because of ANC.


----------



## Minarets

vladzakhar said:


> For flights nothing is better then Sony WH-1000XM3 over the ears. No wireless earbuds can achieve that level of isolation. ANC in MW07 plus is a joke. I don't hear any difference on and off.
> They isolate good, but not because of ANC.


I agree but I’m looking for TWS not over ears.  Been down that route and don’t want them again. Basically willing to sacrifice what those offer for smaller more travel friendly TWS. So the best of the TWS.


----------



## vladzakhar

I think MW07 plus are the best on the market for now. Not for the flights, though. They loud enough for me, but I can hear the outside noise anyway.


----------



## onree

Minarets said:


> I agree but I’m looking for TWS not over ears.  Been down that route and don’t want them again. Basically willing to sacrifice what those offer for smaller more travel friendly TWS. So the best of the TWS.



One possibility is to get a good-isolating MMCX IEM (e.g., a Shure SE215 or SE535), and pair it with a TRN BT20S. I've read a lot of positive reviews on here for the TRN BT20S. I will say, though, that I do have a pair of BT20S and I've had mixed to negative experiences with them. First, they are quite fiddly (unlike TWS-type earphones, you have to turn them on individually, and you have to charge them with a special split micro-usb cable). Second, mine lasted for about a month and then they basically died - but I was using them to exercise, so maybe that was it? I don't know, but whatever it was, first they started losing the pairing between the two sides, so I hard-reset both sides and re-paired. Then the light gave out on the left side - but it still worked. Now they seem to just be dead dead.

Might just be my bad luck, though. Others seem to have had much better experiences.


----------



## Hisma

onree said:


> One possibility is to get a good-isolating MMCX IEM (e.g., a Shure SE215 or SE535), and pair it with a TRN BT20S. I've read a lot of positive reviews on here for the TRN BT20S. I will say, though, that I do have a pair of BT20S and I've had mixed to negative experiences with them. First, they are quite fiddly (unlike TWS-type earphones, you have to turn them on individually, and you have to charge them with a special split micro-usb cable). Second, mine lasted for about a month and then they basically died - but I was using them to exercise, so maybe that was it? I don't know, but whatever it was, first they started losing the pairing between the two sides, so I hard-reset both sides and re-paired. Then the light gave out on the left side - but it still worked. Now they seem to just be dead dead.
> 
> Might just be my bad luck, though. Others seem to have had much better experiences.


not the only one.  i'm another unlucky guy bc mine arrived defective from the box.  They do turn on, but they constantly unpair & lose signal.  Worst "TWS" i've ever owned.  But judging from the heaps of positive reviews, I must have got a lemon.


----------



## onree

Hisma said:


> not the only one.  i'm another unlucky guy bc mine arrived defective from the box.  They do turn on, but they constantly unpair & lose signal.  Worst "TWS" .  But judging from the heaps of positive reviews, I must have got a lemon.





Hisma said:


> not the only one.  i'm another unlucky guy bc mine arrived defective from the box.  They do turn on, but they constantly unpair & lose signal.  Worst "TWS" i've ever owned.  But judging from the heaps of positive reviews, I must have got a lemon.



Yeah, exactly. I brought them up because they sounded amazing when I first started using them, and they definitely met a need, at a really reasonable price. Such a shame that they didn't last... But every once in a while I feel like trying another pair to see if I was just unlucky.


----------



## Linus Jian (Oct 27, 2019)

Anyone who owns the mw07 plus also experiences wobbling on the lid? I find it a bit annoying. The sound quality is amazing though, I use some hi-end iems normally and I thought I would have a hard time with tws iems but the mw07 plus are just amazing.


----------



## Minarets

Based off everything I wanted the KZ e10 are the winners.....except they have connection issues. 

the shanling mtw100 were next leaders in the clubhouse but I’ve read they don’t go deep enough in your ears because the stem is so short to fit in the case.  

next was the MW07 go but they are pretty premium at $199 and it sure if they are loud enough.  

maybe the earfun free is the way to go.


----------



## d3myz

billbishere said:


> I swear - I am having some bad luck or just getting what I am paying for in these cheap TWS.  I dont think sound is really a big problem with a lot of these, with some sounding right down right but even the others sounding ok.  I think where the issue's are is with everything else.  After having connectivity issues with the Koseton's - I went ahead and got the Mpow T5's.  While I like the sound of the Mpow even better than the others, they have also had a wonky issue.  They are supposed to be IPx7 Waterproof.  I took a shower with them today and as soon as they got wet the right ear bud volume got real low in comparison to the right.  Not matter what I did it stayed low.  However I let them sit and dry out and now it's fine...  I dont get it.  Nor do I really know what I want to do as the sound on the Mpows is good for TWS.
> 
> I may end up just saying screw it and return both and just stick with bigger names.  My 1more have never had any such issues, but they are not water resistant.  I may just go for the MW07 GO's.  There is a lot to like about those outside of the $200 price tag.  But I would hope that they would not have the wonky stuff and and I sure they sound fantastic!


Did you take the ear tip off and blow the water off of the nozzle port? I've showered with mine many times and if water covers the nozzle, i get no sound.


----------



## donnertrud

Hey,

can someone recommend some IEM with nice bass and good not so high treble? I highly prefer deeper sounds over higher ones which is the reason why I am looking for that. I would prefer not to use an adapter and I am able to spend about 150-200$, maybe even about 300$ if there is a big jump in performance in those two ranges. Thanks in advance for any recommandations and have a nice day!


----------



## BobJS

Linus Jian said:


> Anyone who owns the mw07 plus also experiences wobbling on the lid? I find it a bit annoying. The sound quality is amazing though, I use some hi-end iems normally and I thought I would have a hard time with tws iems but the mw07 plus are just amazing.



No wobbling here.  Sounds like something is wrong.


----------



## redrol

I got the KZ KWS E10 and I do like them a lot.  For me they work great with my LG G7.  The tonality is on point.. verrry good.  REALLY good.  My favorite KZ actually, above the ZSX.


----------



## Minarets

redrol said:


> I got the KZ KWS E10 and I do like them a lot.  For me they work great with my LG G7.  The tonality is on point.. verrry good.  REALLY good.  My favorite KZ actually, above the ZSX.


The TWS I assume? No connection problems? Where did you get them from?


----------



## redrol

I got them from linsoul and yeah the TWS.  I was quite surprised I liked them more than the ZSX.  The tuning is maybe more balanced and less V shaped.


----------



## Blueshound24

I ordered the Shanling MTW100 three weeks ago from Shenzhenaudio via Aliexpress. I am beyond impatient for this delivery and have messaged them a couple of times. 

Their last reply was, 





> "Hi friend, We understand your feeling. We will follow up the package status for you. If the package didn't arrive during the handle time. We will resend or process the refund for you. Please don't worry.Any question, feel free to contact."



How long does Ali usually take to ship to the USA?


----------



## C_Lindbergh (Oct 27, 2019)

Do you think Master and Dynamic will go for another 20% store wide sale for Black Friday? Might pick up the MW07 plus then.

20% of an item that cost 100 Euros in not that big of a deal, but for something that cost 300 Euros is a pretty big deal imo.

I just hate that not a single TWS got multi point, for those that have the new MW07 plus, how seamless is it to switch between devices?

Could also wait and see if Sennheiser releases their new version of their True wireless, but judging from their recent bluetooth producs I doubt they'll increase the battery life as much as the MW07 plus.


----------



## webvan (Oct 27, 2019)

Timastyle said:


> Hoping the brain trust here can help me find a good pair of buds. Currently have the CA Melomania and while I love the SQ, there are things I don't like. The fit in my ears is not great and I've tried a few different tips. The Comply noise isolation medium CA recommends in their FAQ worked great but has worn down in about 8 days. I've also tried the SpinFit 155s but can't get the seal and positioning to get the full sound out of the buds (mainly bass). Call quality has also gone south. When I first got them, I was told call quality was great on the far end. Now that my return window is gone, I'm being told that the background noise is pretty bad and the person is getting bad reverb on their end. Looking for suggestions on something else and below is what I'd like for it to have:
> 
> 1.  Good SQ (not an audiophile but want something on par with the Melomania)
> 2.  Good call quality
> ...



As a coincident I just got the Melomania and have to say that after some thorough testing I'm rather disappointed. I'd gotten it based on the good comments about its SQ and also because rated it highly for isolation but it's not going to be working for me. The biggest problem is the fit, I don't mind "deep insertion" IEMs since I still use my Klipsch S4 that are exactly that but I just can't get a good fit/seal with the Melomania. I have large ear canals so I'm not sure why that is and I'm not sure who they work for...maybe for those who can settle for an imperfect seal ? The stock foam tips are not bad but they're too shallow and I can feel the plastic against my ear canal. Add to that the fact that there is no ambient mode and that people I talk to on the phone complain and well...too bad because the SQ is pretty good, warm and pleasing, albeit not terribly defined and with a soundstage that's nothing special.
So I'm back to the trusty 65t, which you might want to check out if you haven't already 

For sports and maybe a slightly more "pleasing" listening experienced compared to the 65t or Havit G1 I might still give the MPOW T5 a try or the Tiso i4...


----------



## Bhelpoori

C_Lindbergh said:


> Do you think Master and Dynamic will go for another 20% store wide sale for Black Friday? Might pick up the MW07 plus then.
> 
> 20% of an item that cost 100 Euros in not that big of a deal, but for something that cost 300 Euros is a pretty big deal imo.
> 
> ...


The Jabra 65t and the upcoming 75t have multipoint...


----------



## howdy

donnertrud said:


> Hey,
> 
> can someone recommend some IEM with nice bass and good not so high treble? I highly prefer deeper sounds over higher ones which is the reason why I am looking for that. I would prefer not to use an adapter and I am able to spend about 150-200$, maybe even about 300$ if there is a big jump in performance in those two ranges. Thanks in advance for any recommandations and have a nice day!


If you don't mine charging them every 4 days the Sennheiser momentum TW have some the best sound on a TW IEM. I have them a love the sound. There is a head-fi'er on this thread @hifi80sman who is selling his for I believe 200 US which is a great deal.


----------



## Timastyle

webvan said:


> As a coincident I just got the Melomania and have to say that after some thorough testing I'm rather disappointed. I'd gotten it based on the good comments about its SQ and also because rated it highly for isolation but it's not going to be working for me. The biggest problem is the fit, I don't mind "deep insertion" IEMs since I still use my Klipsch S4 that are exactly that but I just can't get a good fit/seal with the Melomania. I have large ear canals so I'm not sure why that is and I'm not sure who they work for...maybe for those who can settle for an imperfect seal ? The stock foam tips are not bad but they're too shallow and I can feel the plastic against my ear canal. Add to that the fact that there is no ambient mode and that people I talk to on the phone complain and well...too bad because the SQ is pretty good, warm and pleasing, albeit not terribly defined and with a soundstage that's nothing special.
> So I'm back to the trusty 65t, which you might want to check out if you haven't already
> 
> For sports and maybe a slightly more "pleasing" listening experienced compared to the 65t or Havit G1 I might still give the MPOW T5 a try or the Tiso i4...



Yes I had issues with the SQ and getting the lows out of them until I went with the Comply noise isolation tips but those haven't lasted very long. If you angle them by hand with the stock tips, you can get the bass out of them but they don't stay there. At least not in my ears. 

I looked at the Jabra but something kept holding me back from buying. I'd like something that has some bass to it for when I go to the gym. Like a little thump. 

The Shanling MTW100 (white DD) seems to be what I'm looking for but not many reviews so gun-shy a bit.


----------



## hifi80sman (Oct 27, 2019)

Anyone have any time with the Klipsch T5 TWS?  I had about $60 of rewards, so ended up snagging these for about $140 + tax.  Not going to lie...the case seduced me.  Normally, I wouldn't buy something that "promises" an app, but in this case, it looks like the promise is credible (advertised on their website).

En Route


----------



## tma6

C_Lindbergh said:


> Do you think Master and Dynamic will go for another 20% store wide sale for Black Friday? Might pick up the MW07 plus then.
> 
> 20% of an item that cost 100 Euros in not that big of a deal, but for something that cost 300 Euros is a pretty big deal imo.
> 
> ...




Yeah lack of multi point is definitely frustrating, though I did find it easy to switch between devices. For instance, after connecting it to my phone and computer at least once so it recognizes them, if the MW07+ is connected to my phone and I turn the bluetooth off, while my computer bluetooth is on, it will automatically connect to my computer and vice-versa.


----------



## HiFlight

Blueshound24 said:


> I ordered the Shanling MTW100 three weeks ago from Shenzhenaudio via Aliexpress. I am beyond impatient for this delivery and have messaged them a couple of times.
> 
> Their last reply was,
> 
> How long does Ali usually take to ship to the USA?



I have ordered a number of items from AE and they have all arrived in about 2 weeks to my Florida address, except when I ordered during an Asian holiday by accident.


----------



## Timastyle

HiFlight said:


> I have ordered a number of items from AE and they have all arrived in about 2 weeks to my Florida address, except when I ordered during an Asian holiday by accident.



If I order the Shanling, I'd buy it from eBay off of musicteck. 3 day shipping at no extra charge. Think you save on taxes too.


----------



## Blueshound24

Timastyle said:


> If I order the Shanling, I'd buy it from eBay off of musicteck. 3 day shipping at no extra charge. Think you save on taxes too.




Yeah, I found out Musicteck had it after I ordered from Ali. I really wish I woulda known they had them.


----------



## howdy

hifi80sman said:


> Anyone have any time with the Klipsch T5 TWS?  I had about $60 of rewards, so ended up snagging these for about $140 + tax.  Not going to lie...the case seduced me.  Normally, I wouldn't buy something that "promises" an app, but in this case, it looks like the promise is credible (advertised on their website).
> 
> En Route


I've contemplated getting those a few times as I love the Klipsch brand in general. Im going to "really try" to enjoy the 5 pairs of TWS I have which is really small number to some of ya out there. Does any if you have over 20 yet? 
Have you considered the Powerbeats at all? I'm still trying to decided if I'm going to keep them, I probably will being that I got rid of the shrill sound.


----------



## HiFlight

Timastyle said:


> If I order the Shanling, I'd buy it from eBay off of musicteck. 3 day shipping at no extra charge. Think you save on taxes too.


I did order the black MTW100 from Musicteck.  They are scheduled to arrive around the middle of the week.  I didn't see the BA version on Amazon, however I might have overlooked it.


----------



## Timastyle

HiFlight said:


> I did order the black MTW100 from Musicteck.  They are scheduled to arrive around the middle of the week.  I didn't see the BA version on Amazon, however I might have overlooked it.



Amazon has the black with Prime. 4 left in stock.


----------



## Blueshound24

Timastyle said:


> Amazon has the black with Prime. 4 left in stock.




Darn I could order them from Amazon now and probably get them quicker than waiting for Ali to deliver. It's been 3 weeks now. I'm almost tempted to do that, then sell the ones from Ali when they finally get here...


----------



## mattedialdoc

Grayson73 said:


> If you want the SSK, Amazon.com has 3 in stock currently, $21.  They sound amazing.
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/SSK-Bluetooth-Headphones-Sweatproof-Microphone/dp/B07R8TPND5/



The SSK just arrived. What a cool little case.

What’s the consensus on the SSK vs.   MPOW T5?. Of all the ones I’ve tried I’ve only kept the T5 and Bomaker. But he sound great to me. I’ll get these charged up and give them a listen. For $20 bucks I can’t say no to trying these!


----------



## C_Lindbergh

Bhelpoori said:


> The Jabra 65t and the upcoming 75t have multipoint...



Oh really, I wonder what keeps other manufactures from including it... I really don't trust the SQ of the Jabra... and the design is so awful.


----------



## HiFlight

C_Lindbergh said:


> Oh really, I wonder what keeps other manufactures from including it... I really don't trust the SQ of the Jabra... and the design is so awful.


Out of curiosity, what don't you trust about the Jabra SQ given that you can create and save your own EQ settings?


----------



## webvan

Timastyle said:


> Yes I had issues with the SQ and getting the lows out of them until I went with the Comply noise isolation tips but those haven't lasted very long. If you angle them by hand with the stock tips, you can get the bass out of them but they don't stay there. At least not in my ears.
> 
> I looked at the Jabra but something kept holding me back from buying. I'd like something that has some bass to it for when I go to the gym. Like a little thump.
> 
> The Shanling MTW100 (white DD) seems to be what I'm looking for but not many reviews so gun-shy a bit.



The 65Ts get a bad rap around here but the SQ really isn't that bad and you can EQ them in the app and that will stick. I can't think of a good reason not to give them a try


----------



## AtariPrime

C_Lindbergh said:


> Oh really, I wonder what keeps other manufactures from including it... I really don't trust the SQ of the Jabra... and the design is so awful.



Er? Are we talking about the internal design or the external?  If talking about the external, they are some of the most compact ear buds on the market. They almost hide in your ear compared to many. In that respect at least they are superior to most.


----------



## webvan

Caipirina said:


> are those i5 the same as the i4 just in a different case? Anyone know?


According to this (slightly rambling) review the i5 have a more balanced SQ than the i4. Interestingly the guy says that you can connect to the i4 using the Earin app and change the EQ settings ! Apparently the i5 are not compatible with it anymore though. Anyway I picked up the i5 as they are available on the cheap from Amazon.


----------



## rcmo

Hey Guys,

Any idea of what TWS can these be?




 



 

Thanks.


----------



## C_Lindbergh (Oct 27, 2019)

AtariPrime said:


> Er? Are we talking about the internal design or the external?  If talking about the external, they are some of the most compact ear buds on the market. They almost hide in your ear compared to many. In that respect at least they are superior to most.



I mean't lookwise, I agree that they look really compact and well designed from a technical standpoint. But the loooks is so... The all black model looks al right, but can't fint it on any store that offers pre orders.




HiFlight said:


> Out of curiosity, what don't you trust about the Jabra SQ given that you can create and save your own EQ settings?



I've just read that the SQ is one step bellow earbuds like Sennheiser/MT07 etc. Also they seem to lack the individuall connection and instead they use theolder master/slave and  also there's no aptx codec.

But having multi point is a huge bonus... man every True Wireless seems to lack something.

Also small annoyances like not being able to access the ambient mode without opening the app is just stupid. At least according to the datasheet.




I'll have to put my faith in Sennheiser, if they deliver the same product (including the APTX-LL codec) with a few improvements like Mullti point, better battery life (fix drain issue) etc. Then my search can be over finally. 

Question is when, I've heard rumors that hey will release it somewhere in January.


----------



## Caipirina (Oct 27, 2019)

rcmo said:


> Hey Guys,
> 
> Any idea of what TWS can these be?
> 
> ...


From the texture I’d say Mpow
EDIT: sorry, no, just double checked, my mpows have the brand name on top


----------



## Caipirina

Blueshound24 said:


> I ordered the Shanling MTW100 three weeks ago from Shenzhenaudio via Aliexpress. I am beyond impatient for this delivery and have messaged them a couple of times.
> 
> Their last reply was,
> 
> How long does Ali usually take to ship to the USA?



Don't know about time to US, depends on which shipping company they use ... but don't you get tracking info? That usually works well ...  i.e. just finding out that SunYou Post is crap ... they send from Shenzen, to HK, to Guanhzou and THEN it leaves China .. have stuck two deliveries like that ...


----------



## Blueshound24

Caipirina said:


> Don't know about time to US, depends on which shipping company they use ... but don't you get tracking info? That usually works well ...  i.e. just finding out that SunYou Post is crap ... they send from Shenzen, to HK, to Guanhzou and THEN it leaves China .. have stuck two deliveries like that ...



Of course they give tracking info, and I have been following it frequently, but it hasn't even shown leaving the sorting center. And it appears to be ePacket shipping.


----------



## jlo mein (Oct 27, 2019)

Anyone seen these Mifo O9?  Can't find any English reports on it, but they seem to be extremely similar to the Shanling MTW100.  They at least look a lot nicer.

Looking forward to any comments on the newest Mifo O7 too...Chinese sale time 11-11 plus Black Friday are both coming fast.  Debating these Mifo's, Shanling, and Sabbat E12 Ultra. 





https://m.aliexpress.com/item/40002...d=5931amp-qBodAOAO9u3GMf6s072Kag1572226907154


----------



## jant71

Blueshound24 said:


> Of course they give tracking info, and I have been following it frequently, but it hasn't even shown leaving the sorting center. And it appears to be ePacket shipping.



Take the tracking number and put it into USPS system and see what the latest is there. Check the boxes for the updates to be sent to you and it will update you better than ALI will.


----------



## Storyline (Oct 27, 2019)

I remember when I was a child, under 10 I guess, getting frustrated sometimes with an inanimate object that wouldn't do what I wanted it to - probably my train set or latest toy I suppose. Then occasionally the frustration would turn to anger and this anger would be exacerbated because I couldn't get my own back or hurt it. Then ridiculous thoughts of violence to said object and although I can't actually remember doing it, I guess I probably smashed the odd thing to pieces.

How things have changed when now, some 50 years later, I have learned that it's completely pointless to let an object make me angry.  That is apart from half an hour ago, when having struggled in vain for the previous 30 minutes, a cloud of rage descended. I couldn't believe it, even £5 pieces of junk bought from the garage forecourt worked better than this. I felt glimmers of old feelings of frustration and before long, definite anger and even hate.      Then I had a sudden revelation - there was still no point in violence and destruction but I could go online and tell the world what a piece of $hit they were.

Even better, I could target my vitriol precisely and only tell people who would know what they were and who'd realise that they were far from being a £5 garage sale gadget.

I'm sure that anyone reading this has got at home some really cheap thing that uses Bluetooth and this thing connects faultlessly every time without fuss or drama. I've got a couple, a ridiculously cheap Bluetooth speaker and a tiny digital radio the size of a matchbox that I got for £5 from a ........ The point is, that somehow the speaker seems to always connect to whatever I switch on near it, phone, tablet etc. It is great, it's simple and just works.

An hour ago now I was staring in disbelief when my tablet told me 'The pairing request has been refused'. So this cheeky dammed thing was obviously able to communicate, else how would it know that I had pressed 'Pair' on my tablet and what were it's motives for refusing my request. Goddam it, this is not a request, this is an order as I hit Return.'The pairing........'. I might add that I had already spent more than half an hour turning Bluetooth on and off, resets, google searches and a YouTube promising an easy solution and which pointed out that they were so clever as they had to be 7" or a head's width apart. Great, after the wilful refusal to cooperate, the 7 inches was the final straw. "Give me that .......... tablet "

For the last few months I have been playing with some superb wired IEMs from FiiO and a pair of wired audio-technica cans. With my DAP in my pocket, these have felt a safe bet when out in the garden weeding veg and planting seeds etc or off sailing on holiday. After all, I would hate for one of my Sennheiser Momentum TW earbuds to fall out unoticed for a moment and then get lost - or would I ?


----------



## Blueshound24 (Oct 27, 2019)

jant71 said:


> Take the tracking number and put it into USPS system and see what the latest is there. Check the boxes for the updates to be sent to you and it will update you better than ALI will.




Sorry, I know this is off topic and I will stop posting regarding this issue after this post. And yes I had gone to the USPS website to set up notifications when I first ordered them, and the below is the latest update. I ordered them on Oct 6th and I'm just frustrated.



> *Tracking History*
> Origin Post is Preparing Shipment
> We have received notice that the originating post is preparing to dispatch this mail piece.
> 
> ...


----------



## Mouseman

Blueshound24 said:


> Sorry, I know this is off topic and I will stop posting regarding this issue after this post. I have gone to the USPS website to set up notifications, and the below is the latest update. I ordered them on Oct 6th and I'm just frustrated.


I hate to break it to you, but it just might have gotten lost. I've had a few Ali packages go missing in that crappy logistics system of theirs. I'd send a message to the seller and then be prepared to file a dispute. Twice I've had a seller "expedite" a new package to me. Once they even sent it DHL, but other times I've just gotten a refund.


----------



## Minarets

Any soundcore liberty 2 pro adopters yet?


----------



## Caipirina

Blueshound24 said:


> Of course they give tracking info, and I have been following it frequently, but it hasn't even shown leaving the sorting center. And it appears to be ePacket shipping.



That of course sucks! 

I have seen the weirdest things, like sent back 5 times for 'security reasons' but it ended up showing up well in time ... 

Also checked tracking in the app? and then from provider website / 17track.net ? I find that info there sometimes has more detail ...


----------



## jlo mein

rcmo said:


> Hey Guys,
> 
> Any idea of what TWS can these be?
> 
> ...



Its the Blitzwolf BW-FYE5. Its also been rebranded as the Raycon E25, with the Raycon's seeming to be the same but $30-40 more expensive.


----------



## Blueshound24 (Oct 27, 2019)

Caipirina said:


> That of course sucks!
> 
> I have seen the weirdest things, like sent back 5 times for 'security reasons' but it ended up showing up well in time ...
> 
> Also checked tracking in the app? and then from provider website / 17track.net ? I find that info there sometimes has more detail ...




Thanks for the suggested app and link, however not much more info there unfortunately.


17track.net


> In Transit
> 
> ChinaChina Post
> 
> ...






I messaged Shenzhenaudio Store and said I am considering to Open A Dispute to protect my interests. And I asked if they could expedite a new package to me or just cancel my order. They then PM'd back:


> Hi friend, We understand your feeling. It is the estimated delivery time. Sometimes, the delivery time will be a little longer due to some reasons. Please help to contact your local post office first. If there still no update information about this package within one week. I will try to apply to use DHL to resend a new one for you. Will that be OK for you? We do hope to get your understanding and thanks for your wait. Best regards!





Sorry, I am done. Kinda beating a dead horse here.


----------



## Cretz42

Just got the shanling mtw100 dynamic driver version. Overall impressions are good but I don’t think they are for me. If anyone is interested in taking them off my hands please let me know.


----------



## jasaero

Cretz42 said:


> Just got the shanling mtw100 dynamic driver version. Overall impressions are good but I don’t think they are for me. If anyone is interested in taking them off my hands please let me know.



I just got these also.  What aspect has you wanting to offload.  The lack on bud volume control and lack of more control for ambient mode are my biggest annoyances.  The ambient mode works, but wish you could sorta customize external surroundings volume vs music more.


----------



## bronco1015

d3myz said:


> They sound great, i'd say less low mids than the T5 but with much more sparkle and clarity more V shaped surely. I like these more than my T5 I sold my Tevi's couldn't bear to pay double for an eq'd T5. I think these earfun's sound close to as good as my anbes', I love the mids of my anbes', but the Free's have that definition and sparkle in the high end that give the snare that crack that I love. They don't have as much sub-bass as the anbes/ssk or as much low mid-range, but they sound cleaner and more defined like the tevi. If i had to guess, based on the Freq. response chart I saw of the Tevi's i'd say these have less mids. I don't know if that makes any sense, but pick up a set and try them out. They are big and I only have two sets of tips that work that don't make my ears feel too much pressure. There's no mono mode or volume control, but haven't stopped using them except to charge them once since I got them. Also, They have graphene drivers just like the Tevi's. If you like the Tevi's I think you'll like these. They have more bass, but not an overwhelming amount, but they clarity is really great without being too bright at loud volumes.


I may end up returning the tevis. I really like them, in so many ways. IF they were $60, i'd probably keep them because of the mono mode and the long battery life. Those alone are an upgrade over the T5 for me. What you said about how snares sound on the earfuns speaks to me a bit, as i've been drumming for over half my life. now not as much as i used to, but yeah. may need to look into the Earfun free.


----------



## bronco1015

XGUGU said:


> TWS+ while no listed, its indeed a feature that the SD855 and 845 are capable of.   My OnePlus 7 Pro shipped without TWS+ on Android Pie. After updating to Android 10, it became a feature in my phone. So It's basically OS developers who enable the option to use the codec.


just wanted to 2nd this as well, as this feature is available on both my LG V40, and Xiaomi mi mix 2S, both of which have the snapdragon 845, and are running builds of android 9. Both support APTX, APTX-HD, LDAC, AAC AND SBC. Also; FWIW, the mi mix does really steller with devices that are SBC and or AAC only. my QC35's sound so much better on that phone than they do with the V40, or did with the V20 or V30.


----------



## bronco1015

billbishere said:


> I swear - I am having some bad luck or just getting what I am paying for in these cheap TWS.  I dont think sound is really a big problem with a lot of these, with some sounding right down right but even the others sounding ok.  I think where the issue's are is with everything else.  After having connectivity issues with the Koseton's - I went ahead and got the Mpow T5's.  While I like the sound of the Mpow even better than the others, they have also had a wonky issue.  They are supposed to be IPx7 Waterproof.  I took a shower with them today and as soon as they got wet the right ear bud volume got real low in comparison to the right.  Not matter what I did it stayed low.  However I let them sit and dry out and now it's fine...  I dont get it.  Nor do I really know what I want to do as the sound on the Mpows is good for TWS.
> 
> I may end up just saying screw it and return both and just stick with bigger names.  My 1more have never had any such issues, but they are not water resistant.  I may just go for the MW07 GO's.  There is a lot to like about those outside of the $200 price tag.  But I would hope that they would not have the wonky stuff and and I sure they sound fantastic!


Same exact issue with my t5, right down to the right bud getting super low in volume. It never completely recovered, even though dried them out very quickly.


----------



## bronco1015

Blueshound24 said:


> I ordered the Shanling MTW100 three weeks ago from Shenzhenaudio via Aliexpress. I am beyond impatient for this delivery and have messaged them a couple of times.
> 
> Their last reply was,
> 
> How long does Ali usually take to ship to the USA?


That sucks. I never did get an ETA from Musictech, but my Shanling's arrived friday night. I like them, a lot. But no verdict yet.


----------



## bronco1015

The kozeton's also arrived Saturday, and they sound aweful! in other news, at Hifi80sman,   in true junky fashion, i'm thinking about getting those backbeat pro5100s again.. loved them for the call quality, and that's my only justification i can come up with for buying them. lol. i did like the sound, but. dam it!


----------



## Caipirina

jlo mein said:


> Anyone seen these Mifo O9?  Can't find any English reports on it, but they seem to be extremely similar to the Shanling MTW100.  They at least look a lot nicer.




They look mighty familiar to the Mifo 04, of which only this Thai review video appear to exist ... 



Maybe Mifo is only allowed to sell this Shanling look alike / rebrand in other Asian markets?


----------



## Caipirina

jlo mein said:


> Looking forward to any comments on the newest Mifo O7 too...Chinese sale time 11-11 plus Black Friday are both coming fast.




 

Not really the savings I had hoped for. 
Overall, looking at stuff in my cart / wishlist, now that the 11.11 prices are revealed... I am not that psyched anymore.


----------



## jlo mein

Caipirina said:


> Not really the savings I had hoped for.
> Overall, looking at stuff in my cart / wishlist, now that the 11.11 prices are revealed... I am not that psyched anymore.



Is that confirmed 11-11 pricing?  I guess the Shanling MTW100 are the better buy at $90 (BA version), and there's a chance the Shanling could be cheaper too on 11-11. 

The Mifo O7 appear to have a nicer case though, perhaps could accept longer eartips which the Shanling case can't.  The Mifo O7 sound interesting with "double balanced armatures" too.


----------



## webvan

In case someone in Europe does not have their T5s yet, good price on them on Amazon UK here https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B07WJRW2FB/ at 26.99£
Just ordered them !


----------



## Caipirina (Oct 28, 2019)

jlo mein said:


> Is that confirmed 11-11 pricing?  I guess the Shanling MTW100 are the better buy at $90 (BA version), and there's a chance the Shanling could be cheaper too on 11-11.
> 
> The Mifo O7 appear to have a nicer case though, perhaps could accept longer eartips which the Shanling case can't.  The Mifo O7 sound interesting with "double balanced armatures" too.



This is what my app shows me since last update this morning   so, I guess those are the official prices.

And I do not see ANY 11.11 sale on the Shanling ... I wonder if they applied some price bind order (you notice that all shops adhere to the same 79/89$ pricing)

for the Shanling it might be helpful to sweep up those 10$ off 69$ coupons ...


----------



## sanakimpro (Oct 28, 2019)

Hello..long time lurker here.

Been using the MTW for 3 months + now and I've been hearing a lot of good things about the Sony WF-1000XM3s..

So far with the MTW, the sound staging and clarity and sound signature has been very good. It tends to be very revealing and the bass is suppressed even with the EQ. Kinda reminds me how they designed the HD800.  But the low-end is present but lighter than I'd prefer. It also has some issues with connectivity even when walking around town or going to work, plus short battery life with drain issue.

Considering to get the Sony XM3s now as a complement for bassy EDM (Charli XCX, Lorde, Korean pop) tracks and longer battery life; see that I'll use them interchangeably instead of throwing the MTW away.

My priorities are on pure SQ. I can live with the other shortcomings like battery life or connectivity. I just want to know I'm getting the best sound for the $$.

What do you think? Any owners of both can chime? I have seen owners of MTW move to XM3s and vice versa. Happy to know what you think.

Thanks


----------



## rcmo

jlo mein said:


> Its the Blitzwolf BW-FYE5. Its also been rebranded as the Raycon E25, with the Raycon's seeming to be the same but $30-40 more expensive.



Thank you so much!


----------



## Caipirina

While not super smitten with the 11:11 offers so far .. here are a few nuggets in the sub 20$ range that others mind find interesting: 

Those Spunky Beat, the cheapest (?) AptX will be down to 19.99$

 

Something I have not spotted before (but already 380 sold!): 
The Blitzwolf AIRAUX, the bud reminds me very much of the Havit i93 shell, but the case is different. 
Coming in at 16.79 on singles day! 

 

And another new entry that looks very much like the havit 93 bud: 
Ugreen's first entry into the TWS market ... They even give you instructions on how to knock the price from 19.99 down to 16.99  

 

Hey, I added to cart and did NOT win an iPhone 11! Gotta love those random sayings .. there is NO further explanation if there is any legit contest / giveaway / raffle going on  

Anyone else spotted anything good? 

Looks like I will be holding back, kinda done with buying stuff just 'because it's cheap' ...  
Have my eyes on some Sabbat X12 Ultra (not happy with those colors though), which will be like 1$ cheaper on 11.11, but I can possibly apply a few more coupons and make it interesting.

Oh, and those Twizzer OP1 mystery buds I posted about earlier will be down at 28.76$ (on mobile). I had some very limited communication with the seller: They say the ANC is real (without specifying if it is just the mic or what we hear), there is no 'hybrid' vocalism, it's a 6mm DD. No AptX. At least they have a few more / different pics now. 
Oh, and just double checking, also lots more new (some contradicting) info ... like the moving coil size ... is it 13mm or 6mm? Now it's called 'noise reduction 30db' ... and they claim a hefty 20h of continuous use! (That can't be right ... )


----------



## Caipirina (Oct 28, 2019)

Has anyone heard / read anything about Funcl doing a sports version / powerbeats pro clone? This looks interesting, but no information via google outside of that ONE seller on Aliexpress ... (nothing on funcl.com, which does not have to mean they are fake   I come across abandoned websites all the time)







Bonus Question: Anyone know these Linsing QC10? They look interesting, (USB C, Volume Control, fancy case, wireless charging) but no idea how they sound. There are 2 videos on YT (using the same audio it seems) in a language I don't understand  (OMG, the auto-generated English subtitles are hilarious!)


----------



## vladzakhar

I have a question to  MW07 plus users: are you buds going to sleep if not in the case. I left mine outside of the case for a night with 90% battery and this morning they were completely discharged


----------



## chinmie

Caipirina said:


> Has anyone heard / read anything about Funcl doing a sports version / powerbeats pro clone? This looks interesting, but no information via google outside of that ONE seller on Aliexpress ...



I'm more interested on this one:
https://m.aliexpress.com/item/4000196435381.html

 

there's many new TWS in AE that's interesting, looks like the usb c is starting to become the standard


----------



## tma6

sanakimpro said:


> Hello..long time lurker here.
> 
> Been using the MTW for 3 months + now and I've been hearing a lot of good things about the Sony WF-1000XM3s..
> 
> ...



If you only care about SQ and don't care about connectivity issues then you should definitely check out the MW07 PLUS. The connectivity issues frustrate me but they might not w you.


----------



## C_Lindbergh

tma6 said:


> If you only care about SQ and don't care about connectivity issues then you should definitely check out the MW07 PLUS. The connectivity issues frustrate me but they might not w you.



Did Master and Dynamic give any reason to why they got rid of the multi point connection? They would almost tick all my boxes if they still had that feature.


----------



## Dcell7

Caipirina said:


> This is what my app shows me since last update this morning   so, I guess those are the official prices.
> 
> And I do not see ANY 11.11 sale on the Shanling ... I wonder if they applied some price bind order (you notice that all shops adhere to the same 79/89$ pricing)
> 
> for the Shanling it might be helpful to sweep up those 10$ off 69$ coupons ...



I have stacked some coupons (Aliexpress and also select and store coupons) 2 weeks ago and i've got the MTW100 BA version for like 66 euro 2 weeks ago. They are still on their way though .....


----------



## david8613

how do the master & dynamic mw07 plus compare to the sennheiser momentum wireless sound wise. I had the sennheisers and honeslty they didn't blow me away, it had great bass and good sound but soundstage was closed in, and they were big and somewhat uncomfortable. I have some best buy gift cards I need to use. I was looking at the mw07 plus or the newer sony wf 1000mx but I don't like the bean shaped buds. it there anything else I should be looking at at best buy? I listen to mostly dance, edm, house and rap. I like bass that goes deep, no midbass hump, nicely tamed treble.


----------



## dweaver

sanakimpro said:


> Hello..long time lurker here.
> 
> Been using the MTW for 3 months + now and I've been hearing a lot of good things about the Sony WF-1000XM3s..
> 
> ...



I own the MTW and have been thinking of getting the WF1000XM3, but between listening and reading reviews on the Soundcore Liberty 2 Pro and having a friend reach out to me in a message I think the L2P is the way to go. My friend has owned the Sony and Sennheiser and prefers the L2P over both. I also have listened to microphone tests for the Sony and L2P and the L2P seems better in that area too. Add on wireless charging, better battery life, and volume controls on top of sound quality and that's just to big a difference especially since it's only 2/3 the price of the Sony.


----------



## vladzakhar

If you don't mind the hiss and little unbalanced crossover between dynamic and armature drivers, L2P is the way to go.


----------



## vladzakhar (Oct 28, 2019)

For now I am enjoying MW07 plus. Even without AAC the sound better with Iphone  then all TWS I tried before.
Plus great battery life, super comfy, very good call quality. 
Unfortunately, to much wind noise, when biking outside.


----------



## go0gle (Oct 28, 2019)

Minarets said:


> Any soundcore liberty 2 pro adopters yet?


 
10 days in. Had a few issues with call quality but seems better after the latest firmware update. There is some white noise on very low volume, non issue for me.

other than that, zero issues. Solid product overall.

I got them for $100 during the presale, but now that I’ve used them I wouldn’t mind paying  full price


----------



## webvan

chinmie said:


> I'm more interested on this one:
> https://m.aliexpress.com/item/4000196435381.html
> 
> 
> ...



They're on Amazon as well if you think you might want to return them


----------



## TK33

TK33 said:


> I am going to try draining the battery to 0 and recharging but if the steel blue mw07 plus shows up at Best Buy here I was also thinking about trying out the MW07 Plus. For $200; the battery info is bugging me.



I am returning my MW07 Go today.  It took 9 hours and 13 minutes to drain the battery from 92% (at 70% volume) and it is back to 92% again so I think the one I got may have an issue with battery.  It also doesn't seem to pair right away when I take them out of the case and I have to press some buttons on them to get it to connect. Also had a lot of trouble pairing it to a second phone (with bluetooth turned off on my first phone). Pretty sure I got a lemon.

Still deciding if I should try another one or just wait a week or two at this point and see if a later batch is better.


----------



## iamscott

C_Lindbergh said:


> Did Master and Dynamic give any reason to why they got rid of the multi point connection? They would almost tick all my boxes if they still had that feature.


It seems likely that they're using the Qualcomm 5120 series chip based on the featureset (i.e. ANC), which I don't think has multipoint support. Have we seen any 3120/5120 buds with multipoint support?


----------



## Minarets

i just ordered the white Earfun Free's.  i hate white, but amazon had same day delivery on white vs 2 day prime, and I'm impatient.  lol

i don't care for the looks of those soundcore libery 2 pro, but like everything im reading about them except for the hiss or white noise yall keep referencing.  i haven't seen one youtube review mention this.  maybe a faulty unit?


----------



## CocaCola15

go0gle said:


> 10 days in. Had a few issues with call quality but seems better after the latest firmware update. There is some white noise on very low volume, non issue for me.
> 
> other than that, zero issues. Solid product overall.
> 
> I got them for $100 during the presale, but now that I’ve used them I wouldn’t mind paying  full price


I paid full price and find them great. I get no hiss/white noise (one of the lucky ones?) and I have the latest FW, 1.65. But I had no noise with the original 1.15 FW that came on my set. Also, I use Comply T200 (bulby form) with them, prefer foam tips. And I also removed the "wings" and they stay put fine when out and about. Big L2P fan, I guess you could say. Have them in right now, Norah Jones never sounded so good. Comfort is fantastic, better than the Cambridge Audio Melomania 1, which I also own and use for >60 minute sessions, because the sound tube on the M1s is a bit thick and gets annoying much past an hour of use. But sound-wise, I like both, with the Soundcore's a bit more soundstage/air.


----------



## Timastyle

jasaero said:


> I just got these also.  What aspect has you wanting to offload.  The lack on bud volume control and lack of more control for ambient mode are my biggest annoyances.  The ambient mode works, but wish you could sorta customize external surroundings volume vs music more.



Can you expand a little more on the second point?  When in ambient mode, what would you say is the ratio between ambient and music?  I can see the benefit of controlling the amount of ambient though.  Are there other buds that have that control that you know of?


----------



## Cretz42

jasaero said:


> I just got these also.  What aspect has you wanting to offload.  The lack on bud volume control and lack of more control for ambient mode are my biggest annoyances.  The ambient mode works, but wish you could sorta customize external surroundings volume vs music more.



honestly just the fit. I cannot get a good seal it seems. a longer stem would have been great.


----------



## chinmie

webvan said:


> They're on Amazon as well if you think you might want to return them



sadly no amazon shipment to my country, so the AE is my best bet on that


----------



## mjb152

I'm really hoping to see the  liberty 2 pro  in the sales,  though seems the only place to get them in the UK is soundcore.com   (they're the same price in £'s as $'s)


----------



## Minarets

the soundcore liberty 2 pros availability is waaaaay out on amazon.  like December deliveries.  better to order direct from soundcore.  if the earfun free dont just tickle my fancy, ill spring the extra cash for the soundcore L2p


----------



## Caipirina (Oct 28, 2019)

And they are official: AirPods pro with ANC & ‘transparency’ mode for 249$  Rated IPX 4



available in any color you like as long as it is white


----------



## Rob E.

Could these be rebranded Tiso i5's ?  ...or maybe i4's in an i5 case. https://smile.amazon.com/dp/B07TFTHXZL/


----------



## geoxile

To those with the mw07 plus. How many of you experienced connectivity issues? Thought about ordering them but now I'm apprehensive. Connectivity is one of the biggest issues I have with tws phones


----------



## Minarets

and now airpods pro is officially launched.


----------



## vladzakhar

Zero connectivity issues hero with Iphone XS max. Even walking in NYC.


----------



## geoxile

vladzakhar said:


> Zero connectivity issues hero with Iphone XS max. Even walking in NYC.


Wow that's reassuring. Hopefully the other owner just has  a bad unit. Thanks. Did you buy yours direct from MD?


----------



## vladzakhar

BestBuy. Don't like shipping time. And easy to return or exchange.


----------



## hifi80sman

bronco1015 said:


> The kozeton's also arrived Saturday, and they sound aweful! in other news, at Hifi80sman,   in true junky fashion, i'm thinking about getting those backbeat pro5100s again.. loved them for the call quality, and that's my only justification i can come up with for buying them. lol. i did like the sound, but. dam it!


Have you tried the Klipsch T5 TWS?  I just got them yesterday and I'm quite pleased with them.  Vocals sound fantastic, with good detail retrieval and pleasing bass, which is to say the bass is not heavily boosted.  Highs are not overly boosted, but they are still crisp with a good sense of air.  Mature sound.  The case is awesome.  Haven't tried calls yet.  They do fit deeper, but I don't have any issue with ergonomics or comfort (which is good).  However, I do feel some movement with aerobic exercise, but weightlifting is fine.  Physical buttons aren't overly stiff or loose and function well (play/pause, track skip, vol controls).

Looking forward to the app that's slated to come out soon, but even without it, I'm quite satisfied.

Also, these things were quite the surprise.  Great clarity, soundstage (for an IEM), and pleasing bass (not super boosted).  Sound kind of reminds me of the Galaxy Buds.  The only downside is isolation is not very good.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07P4CHTXP/


----------



## hifi80sman

sanakimpro said:


> Hello..long time lurker here.
> 
> Been using the MTW for 3 months + now and I've been hearing a lot of good things about the Sony WF-1000XM3s..
> 
> ...


I have both and prefer the WF-1000XM3.  In fact, I haven't used my MTW for a while now and looking to sell them.  Bass on the WF-1000XM3 is excellent and can be adjusted to your preference via app.  Not a fan of the EQ dot scheme on the Sennheiser app.


----------



## go0gle (Oct 28, 2019)

Can’t wait to test the new AirPods



CocaCola15 said:


> I paid full price and find them great. I get no hiss/white noise (one of the lucky ones?) and I have the latest FW, 1.65. But I had no noise with the original 1.15 FW that came on my set. Also, I use Comply T200 (bulby form) with them, prefer foam tips. And I also removed the "wings" and they stay put fine when out and about. Big L2P fan, I guess you could say. Have them in right now, Norah Jones never sounded so good. Comfort is fantastic, better than the Cambridge Audio Melomania 1, which I also own and use for >60 minute sessions, because the sound tube on the M1s is a bit thick and gets annoying much past an hour of use. But sound-wise, I like both, with the Soundcore's a bit more soundstage/air.



I haven’t gotten the 1.65 yet but I’ve had the white noise thing since I got them. I’ve only used them with my iPhone XS, perhaps they source matters ? But like I said it doesn’t bother me one bit, the sound quality is sublime.

I find them extremely comfortable, but I will try those comply foams! Thanks for the tip


----------



## hifi80sman

dweaver said:


> I own the MTW and have been thinking of getting the WF1000XM3, but between listening and reading reviews on the Soundcore Liberty 2 Pro and having a friend reach out to me in a message I think the L2P is the way to go. My friend has owned the Sony and Sennheiser and prefers the L2P over both. I also have listened to microphone tests for the Sony and L2P and the L2P seems better in that area too. Add on wireless charging, better battery life, and volume controls on top of sound quality and that's just to big a difference especially since it's only 2/3 the price of the Sony.


I have both the MTW & the WF-1000XM3 and had the L2P, but now I just have the L2.  As far as the L2P, you can't go wrong, BUT the only issue is the 1st batch had some noise floor/hissing issues.  So I would recommend waiting for the "new version", which Anker said should be released here in a few weeks.  I went back and forth with them via email.  They offered to give me a refund or exchange it for the new version once it came out.  I decided to take the refund and get the L2.  Sound is close to the L2P, but there's no Qi charging.  Can't go wrong with the WF-1000XM3 either.  I'm all for just buying all of them and using a different pair when the mood calls for it!


----------



## CocaCola15 (Oct 28, 2019)

No problem #Go0gle. I just am a foam fan, I guess. I like the seal, comfort, despite the expense. Worth it to me. I think it keeps them more secure without the wings, which I removed because they started to hurt the inside of my ear. As you may have found, they do look a bit goofy, but I could care less (maybe it's me asymmetrical ears, dunno). Maybe the foam tips make them stick out a bit more. Oh, I am using an iPhone 8+.


----------



## AtariPrime

C_Lindbergh said:


> I mean't lookwise, I agree that they look really compact and well designed from a technical standpoint. But the loooks is so... The all black model looks al right, but can't fint it on any store that offers pre orders.



Not quite sure that I understand.  Below is a pic of the 75t, speaking from just appearances, I would take this look over 95% of what is out there.


----------



## hifi80sman

TK33 said:


> I am returning my MW07 Go today.  It took 9 hours and 13 minutes to drain the battery from 92% (at 70% volume) and it is back to 92% again so I think the one I got may have an issue with battery.  It also doesn't seem to pair right away when I take them out of the case and I have to press some buttons on them to get it to connect. Also had a lot of trouble pairing it to a second phone (with bluetooth turned off on my first phone). Pretty sure I got a lemon.
> 
> Still deciding if I should try another one or just wait a week or two at this point and see if a later batch is better.


Don't get banned at Best Buy!  Always pay cash!


----------



## clerkpalmer

Air pods pro released. 249 with ANC and ipx4. I'm in.


----------



## howdy

dweaver said:


> I own the MTW and have been thinking of getting the WF1000XM3, but between listening and reading reviews on the Soundcore Liberty 2 Pro and having a friend reach out to me in a message I think the L2P is the way to go. My friend has owned the Sony and Sennheiser and prefers the L2P over both. I also have listened to microphone tests for the Sony and L2P and the L2P seems better in that area too. Add on wireless charging, better battery life, and volume controls on top of sound quality and that's just to big a difference especially since it's only 2/3 the price of the Sony.


I own both and prefer the Sonys over the Sennheiser in SQ and overall. I haven't heard enough about the Liberty pro but if I read so more positive reviews  I may pick up a pair to try out.


----------



## AtariPrime

clerkpalmer said:


> Air pods pro released. 249 with ANC and ipx4. I'm in.



They still look like Air Pods, no thanks.  At least they are real earbuds now though.


----------



## clerkpalmer

AtariPrime said:


> They still look like Air Pods, no thanks.  At least they are real earbuds now though.


They will have to impress me to keep them but I'm going to give them a shot.


----------



## TK33

hifi80sman said:


> Don't get banned at Best Buy!  Always pay cash!



LOL I may be better off that way...


----------



## hifi80sman

clerkpalmer said:


> Air pods pro released. 249 with ANC and ipx4. I'm in.


Goshdarnit.  Now that they seal, I'm in too.

https://www.apple.com/airpods-pro/


----------



## hifi80sman

AtariPrime said:


> They still look like Air Pods, no thanks.  At least they are real earbuds now though.


Man, I've rolled with so many different over-ears, on-ears, and in-ears, especially at the gym, that I could wear a chicken hat and nobody would flinch.  I do get the occasional, "Do you even audiophile, bruh?".


----------



## willryan042

So pumped about the new airpods. I've loved the "idea" of the original airpod experience but need IEMs. I've been rocking the Senn's since their release but I'm excited to try the Airpods.


----------



## mjb152

I'm on android, so the volume control would be an issue on the new airpods.  quite a low IPX rating as well ?


----------



## geoxile

TK33 said:


> I am returning my MW07 Go today.  It took 9 hours and 13 minutes to drain the battery from 92% (at 70% volume) and it is back to 92% again so I think the one I got may have an issue with battery.  It also doesn't seem to pair right away when I take them out of the case and I have to press some buttons on them to get it to connect. Also had a lot of trouble pairing it to a second phone (with bluetooth turned off on my first phone). Pretty sure I got a lemon.
> 
> Still deciding if I should try another one or just wait a week or two at this point and see if a later batch is better.


Kind of mindblowing that a $200 set cant even get battery reading correct...


----------



## msooffutt

So enthusiastic about the new AirPods that I ordered them as soon as they went live.  Out of all of the true wireless, the original AirPods are still my favorite.  I love the sound of my Sony wf1000xm3 and the original mw07s, but you can’t beat the ease of use and consistency of the AirPods. Sure, they looked dumb as hell and they were very uncomfortable, but I never doubted, when I answered a business call, they they wouldn’t work.  Can’t say they will any of my other true wireless.  I think the only exception was the Jabras.  Really hope they sound good and the transparency option works well.  If so, these will most likely be my go to.


----------



## Minarets

msooffutt said:


> So enthusiastic about the new AirPods that I ordered them as soon as they went live.  Out of all of the true wireless, the original AirPods are still my favorite.  I love the sound of my Sony wf1000xm3 and the original mw07s, but you can’t beat the ease of use and consistency of the AirPods. Sure, they looked dumb as hell and they were very uncomfortable, but I never doubted, when I answered a business call, they they wouldn’t work.  Can’t say they will any of my other true wireless.  I think the only exception was the Jabras.  Really hope they sound good and the transparency option works well.  If so, these will most likely be my go to.



man, the airpods are the most comfy headphone ive tried.  they just sit right there.  could wear them all day.  my only complaint with them is for airplanes.  so ill bite on the new ones.


----------



## tma6

C_Lindbergh said:


> Did Master and Dynamic give any reason to why they got rid of the multi point connection? They would almost tick all my boxes if they still had that feature.



Nah, I have no idea lol seems dumb


----------



## dweaver

hifi80sman said:


> I have both the MTW & the WF-1000XM3 and had the L2P, but now I just have the L2.  As far as the L2P, you can't go wrong, BUT the only issue is the 1st batch had some noise floor/hissing issues.  So I would recommend waiting for the "new version", which Anker said should be released here in a few weeks.  I went back and forth with them via email.  They offered to give me a refund or exchange it for the new version once it came out.  I decided to take the refund and get the L2.  Sound is close to the L2P, but there's no Qi charging.  Can't go wrong with the WF-1000XM3 either.  I'm all for just buying all of them and using a different pair when the mood calls for it!



Is the L2 you mention, this one?
https://www.amazon.ca/Soundcore-Wir...eywords=soundcore+2+pro&qid=1572228745&sr=8-4

If not can you supply a link so I can look at it?


----------



## tma6 (Oct 28, 2019)

david8613 said:


> how do the master & dynamic mw07 plus compare to the sennheiser momentum wireless sound wise. I had the sennheisers and honeslty they didn't blow me away, it had great bass and good sound but soundstage was closed in, and they were big and somewhat uncomfortable. I have some best buy gift cards I need to use. I was looking at the mw07 plus or the newer sony wf 1000mx but I don't like the bean shaped buds. it there anything else I should be looking at at best buy? I listen to mostly dance, edm, house and rap. I like bass that goes deep, no midbass hump, nicely tamed treble.



I can tell you pretty affirmatively that they sound great, and the bass is awesome. Love them for the genres you mentioned. I wrote a review earlier on this thread with an in-depth description about how they sound . Some connectivity issues for me, but seems like that could've been just an issue with my unit after emailing w support. Getting a replacement pair tomorrow.


----------



## msooffutt

Minarets said:


> man, the airpods are the most comfy headphone ive tried.  they just sit right there.  could wear them all day.  my only complaint with them is for airplanes.  so ill bite on the new ones.


They use to kill my ears after awhile, but not so much that I stopped using them.  The AirPods were the only true wireless that I wore so much I wore the battery out.  I find myself constantly rotating the others in and out trying to find the one the works best.  They all sound fantastic, but the technology just isn’t there like the AirPods.


----------



## CocaCola15

dweaver said:


> Is the L2 you mention, this one?
> https://www.amazon.ca/Soundcore-Wir...eywords=soundcore+2+pro&qid=1572228745&sr=8-4
> 
> If not can you supply a link so I can look at it?


Think he meant this one
https://www.amazon.com/Soundcore-Di...86672&sprefix=Anker+Soundcore+,aps,156&sr=8-6


----------



## dweaver

Perfect, thanks 

Well neither is available in Canada yet, so I will patiently wait... DOH! Lol


----------



## webvan

CocaCola15 said:


> I paid full price and find them great. I get no hiss/white noise (one of the lucky ones?) and I have the latest FW, 1.65. But I had no noise with the original 1.15 FW that came on my set. Also, I use Comply T200 (bulby form) with them, prefer foam tips. And I also removed the "wings" and they stay put fine when out and about. Big L2P fan, I guess you could say. Have them in right now, Norah Jones never sounded so good. Comfort is fantastic, better than the Cambridge Audio Melomania 1, which I also own and use for >60 minute sessions, because the sound tube on the M1s is a bit thick and gets annoying much past an hour of use. But sound-wise, I like both, with the Soundcore's a bit more soundstage/air.



Apparently isolation on the LP2/LP2P is not great? It's not bad on the Melomania...provided you can stand ramming that huge port deep in your ear! I can, unfortunately any movement of the jaw and the sound gets modified by the ear canal pressing against it, they're going back.


----------



## gibletzor

I know everyone's attention is focused on the MW07 series and now the new Airpods, but I'll throw in my thoughts on a more run of the mill set.

I got my Jade Audio EW1 from Amazon about a week and a half ago.  I wanted to really give myself some time with them before I shared my feelings.  They're keepers for the $35 I picked them up from Amazon for.  They're not Kissral R18 or Tranya B530 sound quality level, but they're better than several others I've tried.  The mids do require some boosting in EQ and the highs are not as clear as the former.  Bass is similar to Mpow T5.  Their sound quality is very good, but not amazing.  They're comfortable as heck though.  Very lightweight and a similar size and shape to the R18/Anbes 359, just a tiny bit shorter and a tiny bit fatter, and a bit more right angle to the sound nozzle.  I almost forget they're in my ears sometimes just like with my R18s.  They are touch sensitive though, so that could be a positive or negative for some.  The case is a nice cylinder shape, just a bit taller and longer than the Galaxy Buds case, but not as thick.

I still prefer other buds over these but they're worth picking up if you want a budget set and prefer touch controls.  Since I have several others to choose from, I just might gift these to my wife


----------



## CocaCola15

@webvan. For me, isolation is only a matter of street noise and such, which is not a problem with either the Melomania 1 or the L2P. I use them mainly when out walking the dogs, etc. For serious NC, I use the Sony MH1000XM3, on planes and trains. However, I have worn both the M1 and the L2P on the subway, and it was good enough for a short trip (10-15 minutes). Not a fan of wearing the Sonys out on the street. I hear you re the Melomania sound tube thickness, but with the OEM foams, they are just tolerable. If my ear canals were any smaller, it would be a deal breaker. Having said that, I never use them more than an hour. The L2Ps are much more comfy, with Comply foam.


----------



## webvan

hifi80sman said:


> Goshdarnit.  Now that they seal, I'm in too.
> 
> https://www.apple.com/airpods-pro/



Interesting and nice to see a company worrying about providing the best possible fit and tips, Sony could take a big cue there, not to mention CA with their ear ramming Melomania...


----------



## CocaCola15

dweaver said:


> Perfect, thanks
> 
> Well neither is available in Canada yet, so I will patiently wait... DOH! Lol


No problem. They look identical to the L2P. Just different internals. Better to wait, should you get the hissy version, which I didn't for some weird reason.


----------



## webvan (Oct 28, 2019)

chinmie said:


> sadly no amazon shipment to my country, so the AE is my best bet on that


Sure, have you seen any good reviews of the GGMM T1? I found one in German that I might try to look at with translated captions.


----------



## Cretz42

any suggestions out there for a TWS set similar to the MPOW T5 in terms of SQ, bud shape and features but TOUCH and possibly a smaller case?


----------



## ZolaIII (Oct 28, 2019)

Soreniglio said:


> I do know it.
> 
> TWS3 is the oldest one, followed by TWS2, TWS1 and TWS5.
> 
> ...


Those use Foster drivers that come with RP bio cone. It's a celuloze very thin fiber cone (thin paper alike) that dances like crazy. On TWS1 they used less premium cone (a tad ticker) so LPS is couple dB down. On TWS5 they used more premium "RP series" cone so it's 102~103 dB LPS. All together all Foster drivers are tuned (traditionally Onkyo Institute recipe) towards being mid centric and their is (rather linear) bass roll off at 50 Hz, highs don't look spectacular, are easy to drive and their don't messure great. In practice they are great, well balanced and tad on the bright side. Great for acoustic music; jazz, classical & folk not so great for newer popular genre music. There is literally no beneficial difference between those two QC BT chips in their capabilities. Peak they can achieve (source QC):

THD+N@1kHz: -67dB
SNR@1kHz:  93dB
Using APTx of course. Given that in consideration the TWS1 wins by far as it will have a bit better sound stage & separation (8 mm & 32 Ohm's) by one third of the price. TWS5 does have better build quality and BT antenna but nothing mind blowing.

Hopefully in the future they will make something with 9/10 mm RP drivers, better QC chip with APTx HD support & costume LDAC support for under 100$. Those would be the first BT HiFi earphones that I wouldn't mind putting my signature on in the mean time enjoy the plain & simple good budget TWS1.
Best regards.

PS': on 11.11 there will be a shopping promo regarding Edifier stuff so you can save couple buck's more.


----------



## Bhelpoori

msooffutt said:


> They use to kill my ears after awhile, but not so much that I stopped using them.  The AirPods were the only true wireless that I wore so much I wore the battery out.  I find myself constantly rotating the others in and out trying to find the one the works best.  They all sound fantastic, but the technology just isn’t there like the AirPods.


I liked everything about the AirPods other than they don’t isolate and were slightly loose for me. These look to fix that plus they cancel noise but I note they are only 4 mics so they won’t cancel that well. It will be interesting to compare the 6 mic Amazon Echo buds which are half the AirPod Pro’s price.


----------



## Bhelpoori

ZolaIII said:


> Those use Foster drivers that come with RP bio cone. It's a celuloze very thin fiber cone (thin paper alike) that dances like crazy. On TWS1 they used less premium cone (a tad ticker) so LPS is couple dB down. On TWS5 they used more premium "RP series" cone so it's 102~103 dB LPS. All together all Foster drivers are tuned (traditionally Onkyo Institute recipe) towards being mid centric and their is (rather linear) bass roll off at 50 Hz, highs don't look spectacular, are easy to drive and their don't messure great. In practice they are great, well balanced and tad on the bright side. Great for acoustic music; jazz, classical & folk not so great for newer popular genre music. There is literally no beneficial difference between those two QC BT chips in their capabilities. Peak they can achieve (source QC):
> 
> THD+N@1kHz: -67dB
> SNR@1kHz:  93dB
> ...


The QCC 3020 and 3026 look to be the same chip in different packaging.


----------



## BobJS

geoxile said:


> To those with the mw07 plus. How many of you experienced connectivity issues? Thought about ordering them but now I'm apprehensive. Connectivity is one of the biggest issues I have with tws phones


None for me


----------



## ZolaIII

Bhelpoori said:


> The QCC 3020 and 3026 look to be the same chip in different packaging.


Yes 3026 is a bit newer & adopts WLCSP packing that makes it a bit smaller.


----------



## BigZ12

Airpods Pro, codecs?


----------



## vladzakhar

Why on earth the Apple cut the battery life to 4.5 hours per charge.


----------



## willyk

Cretz42 said:


> any suggestions out there for a TWS set similar to the MPOW T5 in terms of SQ, bud shape and features but TOUCH and possibly a smaller case?


Tranya B530.


----------



## clerkpalmer

vladzakhar said:


> Why on earth the Apple cut the battery life to 4.5 hours per charge.


I'm sure it's the ANC that is affecting that.


----------



## hifi80sman

BigZ12 said:


> Airpods Pro, codecs?


Most likely just AAC, which is fine with me.


----------



## vladzakhar

Only if it's really good AAC, not like MW07 plus one.


----------



## Luchyres

sanakimpro said:


> Hello..long time lurker here.
> 
> Been using the MTW for 3 months + now and I've been hearing a lot of good things about the Sony WF-1000XM3s..
> 
> ...





david8613 said:


> how do the master & dynamic mw07 plus compare to the sennheiser momentum wireless sound wise. I had the sennheisers and honeslty they didn't blow me away, it had great bass and good sound but soundstage was closed in, and they were big and somewhat uncomfortable. I have some best buy gift cards I need to use. I was looking at the mw07 plus or the newer sony wf 1000mx but I don't like the bean shaped buds. it there anything else I should be looking at at best buy? I listen to mostly dance, edm, house and rap. I like bass that goes deep, no midbass hump, nicely tamed treble.





dweaver said:


> I own the MTW and have been thinking of getting the WF1000XM3, but between listening and reading reviews on the Soundcore Liberty 2 Pro and having a friend reach out to me in a message I think the L2P is the way to go. My friend has owned the Sony and Sennheiser and prefers the L2P over both. I also have listened to microphone tests for the Sony and L2P and the L2P seems better in that area too. Add on wireless charging, better battery life, and volume controls on top of sound quality and that's just to big a difference especially since it's only 2/3 the price of the Sony.



In my experience, having owned the MTW, sony XM3's, Liberty 2 Pro, Liberty 2, and Nuarl NT01AX - and evaluating for SQ (#1), portability, and call quality (matters a lot to me):

MTW sound was *good* but veiled in some way - and the bass was very present but masked. - the case wasn't very portable, and calls were horrible (I had them before the firmware update). 

XM3 - I was very disappointed with the sound. Felt as though the sound was constrained in all dimensions, had a little bit of white noise floor (not much, but like what you hear with ANC even with ANC off) - but I was disappointed by the sound overall - bass, highs - I didn't like listening to the Sony's as much as I had anticipated, being a fan of Sony house sound. Way too expensive, case wasn't portable. Calls were not good. 

Liberty 2 Pro - I couldn't stand the crossover from the BA to DD - treble was peaky with recessed mids and bombastic (but enjoyable) levels of bass. Loved the case, call quality. 

Liberty 2 - Better than the Pro imo - for cheaper. Better mids and, honestly, highs than the Pro (for me) though they are a teensie bit sibilant to my treble sensitive ears. . Same great case as the Pro. NEEDS A MANUAL EQ

Nuarl - I've had these the longest, they are the simplest, but they are my favorite sound out of all of the above - out of the box, no EQ. Some others have said they have white noise, I have virtually none. The case is tiny. I have never had a single complaint with calls and they isolate better than the Liberty 2. 


My suggestion is the Liberty 2 from Amazon to try them, and then plan on  buying the successor to the NT01AX from Nuarl with me: https://www.atpress.ne.jp/news/195600



hifi80sman said:


> I have both the MTW & the WF-1000XM3 and had the L2P, but now I just have the L2.  As far as the L2P, you can't go wrong, BUT the only issue is the 1st batch had some noise floor/hissing issues.  So I would recommend waiting for the "new version", which Anker said should be released here in a few weeks.  I went back and forth with them via email.  They offered to give me a refund or exchange it for the new version once it came out.  I decided to take the refund and get the L2.  Sound is close to the L2P, but there's no Qi charging.  Can't go wrong with the WF-1000XM3 either.  I'm all for just buying all of them and using a different pair when the mood calls for it!



@hifi80sman I like the L2 better than Pro for SQ and cost. However, I still love my Nuarl.... have you owned them? Given our tonal preference similarities, I'd suspect a bad pair if you didn't enjoy these..


----------



## albau (Oct 28, 2019)

vladzakhar said:


> Only if it's really good AAC, not like MW07 plus one.


By this thread seems like majority of people who really have MW07+ are quite content with its ANC, mentioning NYC subway, streets and office. Living in the city I can confirm that it's no small feat for small buds to drown the subway or Midtown rush. Are you expecting from TWS something like full size Bose or Sony heroics?


----------



## albau

BobJS said:


> None for me


Even with my old MW07 which are BT 4.2 I have suprisingly few dropouts on the NYC streets and none indoors.


----------



## Luchyres

vladzakhar said:


> Only if it's really good AAC, not like MW07 plus one.



AKA, NoAAC? 


albau said:


> By this thread seems like majority of people who really have MW07+ are quite content with its ANC, mentioning NYC subway, streets and office. Living in the city I can confirm that it's no small feat for small buds to drown the subway or Midtown rush. Are you expecting from TWS something like full size Bose or Sony heroics?



I think they were referencing the lack of AAC codec support on the MW07+, not the ANC.


----------



## vladzakhar

MW07+ have very good isolation without ANC. For me ANC doesn't make a big difference. Yes it would be nice to have ANC close to over the ears Sony's. Still have to carry them for my bus commute.


----------



## C_Lindbergh

clerkpalmer said:


> I'm sure it's the ANC that is affecting that.



Not by much, according to apples site they get 5 hours with ANC and transparency off.

I think they gave them a poor ass battery life just so their sheep customers have to buy the new version in 2-3 years once the battery has degraded.


----------



## albau

Luchyres said:


> AKA, NoAAC?
> 
> 
> I think they were referencing the lack of AAC codec support on the MW07+, not the ANC.


Point taken, my bad in comprehension skills . But still why AAC is so critical if MW07+ reportedly sound exceptional with Apple stuff even on SBC?


----------



## ZolaIII

vladzakhar said:


> MW07+ have very good isolation without ANC. For me ANC doesn't make a big difference. Yes it would be nice to have ANC close to over the ears Sony's. Still have to carry them for my bus commute.


That's a easy one. Buy decent quality memory foom ear tips (I prefer T200) & you gain on; comfort, isolation, fit & a bit more bass with any EMI's.


----------



## clerkpalmer

As my buying splurge continues something needs to go. I have a brand new KZ E10 from Ali delivered to me today.  If anyone wants them, I'll do 65 shipped in the US.


----------



## tma6

albau said:


> Point taken, my bad in comprehension skills . But still why AAC is so critical if MW07+ reportedly sound exceptional with Apple stuff even on SBC?



Yes they still sound exceptional even over SBC, but these things are $300. They should definitely have at the very least features that are considered basic on even super budget TWS.


----------



## Luchyres

albau said:


> Point taken, my bad in comprehension skills . But still why AAC is so critical if MW07+ reportedly sound exceptional with Apple stuff even on SBC?



Lol your comprehension's just fine - it's this thread's fault with all these three letter abbreviations flying around. 

Re; Sound - it seems that some of the more critical/picky (not in a bad way)  listeners are NOT happy with how the SBC sounds on iOS versus aptX on Android. They may release an update though it's unsure how it will be applied.


----------



## albau

tma6 said:


> Yes they still sound exceptional even over SBC, but these things are $300. They should definitely have at the very least features that are considered basic on even super budget TWS.


When it comes to end result relevant to the user, which is sound, custom 10mm berillium drivers seem to be much more effective and rare "feature" than AAC.


----------



## clerkpalmer

albau said:


> When it comes to end result relevant to the user, which is sound, custom 10mm berillium drivers seem to be much more effective and rare "feature" than AAC.



This is a tough one for me.  M&D should put the latest and best features in a product priced as a premium option. I think it was a misstep and it shows poor attention to detail. While codecs aren't everything and while they may still sound excellent over sbc they would sound even better over AAC. So if I'm paying big money i want it all.  Even though I'm currently using android I switch frequently and therefore I'm considering returning mine. It would bother me to know that I'm not getting thr best sq my hardware can offer over ios.


----------



## tma6

albau said:


> When it comes to end result relevant to the user, which is sound, custom 10mm berillium drivers seem to be much more effective and rare "feature" than AAC.



Yeah I'm in agreement with this in general. I have them and wrote a very positive review of them earlier on this thread. There's no question it's an oversight though and definitely worth complaining about given the price tag. Apparently they're trying to find a way to make them compatible w AAC, so hopefully that happens.


----------



## ZolaIII (Oct 28, 2019)

albau said:


> When it comes to end result relevant to the user, which is sound, custom 10mm berillium drivers seem to be much more effective and rare "feature" than AAC.


Toxic and rare would be a better word real "audiophile" grade material. Is it good? No not that much, both Indium Gallium Zinc Oxide (relatively vide available now) & Graphen (rare and hard to synthesis) are better. Cones are the most important parts & mids most important range. The passive condensers are good to extend the range in lows and highs. Regarding all lossy codecs the Opus is a champion (free & open source, officially supported since Android 10 & present in Foobar & FFmpeg across all platforms) better than AAC, lower latency than APTx LL, not a low complexity but nothing usual today hardware in TWS can't handle in real time. Up to 48 KHz & up to 32 bit hybrid optimised towards 20 kHz band preserving and better preserving low frequencies so superior in each & every way. Regarding wire transfer  (still to much for BT) & transfer at all its a DSD 64 DoP (in PCM parameters at 96KHz 20 bit 120 dB) in preserving & bringing back ADC - DAC details (thanks to sigma delta modulation). Regarding lossless audio 24 bit 96KHz Flac (open source, now widely available, smaller than wav same quality [a tad bigger than Apple losses] easy to decode rojalti & DRM free).


----------



## Rozzko

What's the best sounding true wireless now? 
Does shanling good? I talking about tws under 200£


----------



## Minarets

I wonder if comply or other tips will end up fitting in the Apple case? Maybe we won’t need them for i typically find foam better than silicone in providing a seal.  


If these get 4:30 with ANC and it works well and comfort is close to the original, they will have a winner. I’m feeling like these will disappoint tho, but hope not.  I bought them today as well.


----------



## XGUGU

Minarets said:


> I wonder if comply or other tips will end up fitting in the Apple case? Maybe we won’t need them for i typically find foam better than silicone in providing a seal.
> 
> 
> If these get 4:30 with ANC and it works well and comfort is close to the original, they will have a winner. I’m feeling like these will disappoint tho, but hope not.  I bought them today as well.


You more likely than else will need comply for new airpods.  They are vented and the nozzle looks way too short (Which the whole industry has been avoiding) They won't lock in your ears


----------



## Minarets

Oh i agree. My question is will they fit in the case? Not worth taking them on and off for daily use. Most manufacturers are trying to keep the case so small the stems are so small you can’t make any adjustments and still for the case.


----------



## Blueshound24 (Oct 28, 2019)

Luchyres said:


> In my experience, having owned the MTW, sony XM3's, Liberty 2 Pro, Liberty 2, and Nuarl NT01AX - and evaluating for SQ (#1), portability, and call quality (matters a lot to me):
> 
> MTW sound was *good* but veiled in some way - and the bass was very present but masked. - the case wasn't very portable, and calls were horrible (I had them before the firmware update).
> 
> ...





Thanks for the great mini reviews!

If one was looking for a good budget TWS I believe someone mentioned the EarFun Free, Kissral UFO, SSK TWS, as having good balanced but yet dynamic sound. Is that still the consensus? Out of those I mentioned or some other recommended which would be the most dynamic, yet balanced sound?

(I don't care about call quality, I put sound quality as more important, if that makes any difference on recommendations)


----------



## hifi80sman

Luchyres said:


> In my experience, having owned the MTW, sony XM3's, Liberty 2 Pro, Liberty 2, and Nuarl NT01AX - and evaluating for SQ (#1), portability, and call quality (matters a lot to me):
> 
> MTW sound was *good* but veiled in some way - and the bass was very present but masked. - the case wasn't very portable, and calls were horrible (I had them before the firmware update).
> 
> ...


I actually picked up the Nural, but ended up returning.  No complaints, really, other than the price I just felt was too high.  I expect some kind of metal...somewhere!  I'm fickle, I know.


----------



## actorlife

Anbes-SSK Joy.
SSK were a gift from an awesome Head-Fi forum member. I am most grateful and thrilled with this surprise gift. Thank you Sir. I will say these SSK sound just as great as the Anbes with a tiny I mean tiny bit brighter with the SSK. Enjoy the pics.



 


 


 


 


 


  Thank you for indulging me.


----------



## XGUGU (Oct 28, 2019)

Minarets said:


> Oh i agree. My question is will they fit in the case? Not worth taking them on and off for daily use. Most manufacturers are trying to keep the case so small the stems are so small you can’t make any adjustments and still for the case.


Oh!  We have to see that in person or see some close pics but actually I'm afraid they got proprietary eartips or irregular.  Not even a nozzle.  Comply or any other tip wont fit them.


----------



## Minarets

XGUGU said:


> Oh!  We have to see that in person or see some close pics but actually I'm afraid they got proprietary eartips or irregular.  Not even a nozzle.  Comply or any other tip wont fit them.



of course they would.  No clue why I didn’t assume Apple would do that.


----------



## Caipirina

XGUGU said:


> Oh!  We have to see that in person or see some close pics but actually I'm afraid they got proprietary eartips or irregular.  Not even a nozzle.  Comply or any other tip wont fit them.


Replacement tips will cost arm&leg. But Chinese clones will be on AliX soon


----------



## XGUGU

Minarets said:


> Oh i agree. My question is will they fit in the case? Not worth taking them on and off for daily use. Most manufacturers are trying to keep the case so small the stems are so small you can’t make any adjustments and still for the case.


Oh!  We have to see that in person or see some close pics but actually I'm afraid they got proprietary eartips or irregular.  Not even a nozzle.  Comply or any other tip wont fit them. 


Caipirina said:


> Replacement tips will cost arm&leg. But Chinese clones will be on AliX soon


Of course. Lol.  I just see impossible fitting longer tips.


----------



## SilverEars (Oct 28, 2019)

XGUGU said:


> Oh!  We have to see that in person or see some close pics but actually I'm afraid they got proprietary eartips or irregular.  Not even a nozzle.  Comply or any other tip wont fit them.


About time they implemented a sealing system.  I don't know what took them so long? I will be checking out how well the ANC performs for sure as I'm curious how well Apple can implement ANC (very practical feature that I'm looking for in TW iems).  WFXM3 was a disappointment.  Also, I'm wondering what the performance of the mic will be.  Will there be a good performing ambiant noise filering implemented?  I was quite impressed with Bose NC 700's mic ambient noise filering, and if both ANC and ambient noise filtering are implemented to be top performing, I would really dig it.

Does airpods work fine with Android phones, and are there features that's not on Android phones that are on iphones?


----------



## bubsdaddy

I ordered the new AirPods pro. Because I took them up on the free engraving I won’t get them until next week.


----------



## clerkpalmer

SilverEars said:


> Does airpods work fine with Android phones, and are there features that's not on Android phones that are on iphones?



I am going to use them with android. They should work fine. Some features like the ar, battery meter and pairing will not be as good  Hopefully all the good stuff works. They have touch controls so hopefully the compromise will be minimal.  Edit - i hope apple can pull off what sony couldn't.


----------



## SilverEars (Oct 28, 2019)

clerkpalmer said:


> I am going to use them with android. They should work fine. Some features like the ar, battery meter and pairing will not be as good  Hopefully all the good stuff works. They have touch controls so hopefully the compromise will be minimal.  Edit - i hope apple can pull off what sony couldn't.


65t is still my gym iem, and what's interesting is when I pull out the earpiece and put it on, it automatically connect to my Android phone (if bluetooth was turned on already), or when I turn on the bluetooth.

Does Apple take another step further only with iphones?  When you open up the case, iphone connects with the earpieces automatically?  Is this one of the purpose of the W1 chip?


----------



## clerkpalmer

SilverEars said:


> 65t is still my gym iem, and what's interesting is when I pull out the earpiece and put it on, it automatically connect to my Android phone (if bluetooth was turned on already), or when I turn on the bluetooth.
> 
> Does Apple take another step further only with iphones?  When you open up the case, iphone connects with the earpieces automatically?  Is this one of the purpose of the W1 chip?



Yeah that's what I meant by pairing. It's not as seamless across devices.


----------



## micr0be

A question for this thread, I own the new KZ E10 TWS and my bluetooth connection to them (from all devices) is horrendous, I mean It connects fine to everything I own so far but every single thing loses signal if its not ludicrously in front of my face or at an angle where it can see both ears otherwise I only hear one ear. I tried going outside in case of severe interference but It was at best just as bad.
I even tried disabling aptX hoping it would make some kind of difference but not really.

Maybe my ears are so big that they're covering the receivers, I don't know anymore.


----------



## erich6

I ordered the AirPods Pro.  I’m very interested to see how well the fitting algorithm, adaptive EQ and noise cancelling works.  Apple didn’t Rush this so I’m hoping they keep the AirPods excellent legacy going.


----------



## rhsauer (Oct 28, 2019)

A note for those of you with an iPhone 11:

I just "upgraded" my iPhone 11 Pro Max from iOS 13.2 beta 4 to the final release of 13.2, connected my Sony WF-1000XM3s to my iPhone 11 Pro Max, and tried to record a voice memo -- and the Bluetooth connection dropped almost immediately. And a second time ... and a third time. This is a problem that happened with some regularity before I upgraded last week to 13.2 beta 4, when it seemed to get better -- but with the final release of 13.2 the problem is worse than ever.

The problem is persistent but happens randomly.  If I record a few voice memos, the Bluetooth connection will eventually drop -- and the Bluetooth connection will randomly drop during phone calls too, making these earphones essentially useless on this phone.  So whatever seemed like Apple fixed in 13.2 beta 4 is now certainly broken again in the final release of 13.2.  I've been having the same problem with the Liberty 2 Pros.

Also, when I connect Bluetooth earphones to my iPhone and check the connection speed on my Mac via Console I find that the earphones are generally connecting at very low connection speeds -- 160kbps or 192kbps (in the case of the Soundcore Liberty 2 Pros) or even as low as 127kbps (in the case of the Sonys). (The Jabra 65t's connect at 256kbps, so not all headphones have horrible connection speeds.) The effect of these low connection speeds on the sound quality is very noticeable -- Apple Music sounds like it's transmitting 128kbps MP3s from 2004.

To demonstrate that the problem is with the iPhone 11, I connected the same earphones to my 10.5" iPad Pro and the connection speed is generally rock solid at 244kpbs or 256kpbs. Also, about a week ago I exchanged my iPhone 11 Pro Max for a second iPhone 11 Pro Max because the first was just as bad -- so something is very wrong with Apple's Bluetooth implementation on the iPhone. Frankly, I'm not optimistic that this can be fixed with an OS update -- since these problems have persisted through several iOS updates, it feels more like the problem might be a hardware flaw in the iPhone's Bluetooth implementation. Ugh.

I have the new AirPod Pros coming on Thursday, and I'll bet the connection on Apple's own earphones is rock solid -- but we'll see. Unfortunately, I have numerous pairs of non-Apple bluetooth earphones that are essentially borked at this point. Very disappointed in Apple.

Are others with an iPhone 11 having any of the same issues?


----------



## chinmie

has anybody got the TRN T200 yet?


----------



## HiFlight (Oct 28, 2019)

chinmie said:


> has anybody got the TRN T200 yet?


Yes, I received mine several days ago, but they were a huge disappointment in that the highs are overly bright, strident and just unpleasant to listen to.  Lows are good, highs bad!  Connectivity range is only about 10-12'.  They are now in my box of rejects.  They do look nice and the fit is good, I just wish they sounded good.


----------



## Caipirina (Oct 28, 2019)

Damn you people who can easily order them and have in a few days ... I probably won't get to try them until xmas in Japan ... 

By then the hype has waned, or so I hope. Looking very much forward to first impressions!


----------



## Caipirina

micr0be said:


> A question for this thread, I own the new KZ E10 TWS and my bluetooth connection to them (from all devices) is horrendous, I mean It connects fine to everything I own so far but every single thing loses signal if its not ludicrously in front of my face or at an angle where it can see both ears otherwise I only hear one ear. I tried going outside in case of severe interference but It was at best just as bad.
> I even tried disabling aptX hoping it would make some kind of difference but not really.
> 
> Maybe my ears are so big that they're covering the receivers, I don't know anymore.



Sorry to hear you have this problem. 
Several reviewers on youtube (and here) have encountered the very same issue (while I must have gotten lucky, I have 0 problems with mine). 
Since the issue is well documented, you should be able to get a replacement (depending on your seller)


----------



## Blueshound24

Blueshound24 said:


> Thanks for the great mini reviews!
> 
> If one was looking for a good budget TWS I believe someone mentioned the EarFun Free, Kissral UFO, SSK TWS, as having good balanced but yet dynamic sound. Is that still the consensus?
> Out of those mentioned, or some other recommendation, which of them would be the most dynamic, yet balanced sound?
> ...





Looking for balanced, yet dynamic. Good but not basshead bass. Good detail with crisp highs.

The *Bomaker* may be another option as well as *EarFun Free*, *Kissral* and *SSK TWS*, or *other*?

Thanks for any helpful input!


----------



## theGatMan (Oct 28, 2019)

rhsauer said:


> A note for those of you with an iPhone 11:
> 
> I just "upgraded" my iPhone 11 Pro Max from iOS 13.2 beta 4 to the final release of 13.2, connected my Sony WF-1000XM3s to my iPhone 11 Pro Max, and tried to record a voice memo -- and the Bluetooth connection dropped almost immediately. And a second time ... and a third time. This is a problem that happened with some regularity before I upgraded last week to 13.2 beta 4, when it seemed to get better -- but with the final release of 13.2 the problem is worse than ever.
> 
> ...



Using an iPhone 11 Pro with WF/XM3 and absolutely no such problem.  Both the phone and the IEM’s are in their respective latest software updates. 

Just tested it and I’m on the JR Yamanote line in Tokyo, probably the most Bluetooth unfriendly environment on the planet.   Rock solid performance.


----------



## thimantha

Couldn't check this thread for a couple of months. Any good new TWS earphones that might be worth buying on the 11.11 sale?


----------



## bronco1015

hifi80sman said:


> Have you tried the Klipsch T5 TWS?  I just got them yesterday and I'm quite pleased with them.  Vocals sound fantastic, with good detail retrieval and pleasing bass, which is to say the bass is not heavily boosted.  Highs are not overly boosted, but they are still crisp with a good sense of air.  Mature sound.  The case is awesome.  Haven't tried calls yet.  They do fit deeper, but I don't have any issue with ergonomics or comfort (which is good).  However, I do feel some movement with aerobic exercise, but weightlifting is fine.  Physical buttons aren't overly stiff or loose and function well (play/pause, track skip, vol controls).
> 
> Looking forward to the app that's slated to come out soon, but even without it, I'm quite satisfied.
> 
> ...


Haven't tried the klipsch t5 yet, kind of forgot about those actually. good to know, i may go pick some up. Pretty sure i am going to pull the plug on those airos though, a $4 coupon takes them down to $30. Like the high IP rating, i know my Anbe's have the same, but i like them to much to test it out lol.


----------



## bronco1015 (Oct 29, 2019)

albau said:


> Point taken, my bad in comprehension skills . But still why AAC is so critical if MW07+ reportedly sound exceptional with Apple stuff even on SBC?[/QUOTE Regardless of codec, it's all about how they're implemented on a product anyway. e.G. AAC almost always sounds better over IOS devices than on many Android devices.SBC has the potential to sound quite good. Someone posted forever ago a really great article about codecs and their atributes, strengths weaknesses, and properties in general. Can't find it, and thought i'd bookmarked it, but apparently not.


----------



## Bhelpoori

SilverEars said:


> 65t is still my gym iem, and what's interesting is when I pull out the earpiece and put it on, it automatically connect to my Android phone (if bluetooth was turned on already), or when I turn on the bluetooth.
> 
> Does Apple take another step further only with iphones?  When you open up the case, iphone connects with the earpieces automatically?  Is this one of the purpose of the W1 chip?


Specifically, when you first pair with the AirPods with your iDevice, it is then paired with every other iDevice. You then switch to them on another device by just treating them as another speaker without the need to pair. On Android you need to treat them like any other Bluetooth device with the pairing/connecting as usual. The first time pairing on Android requires pushing the button in the case to enable standard pairing whereas on iPhone and some iPads all you need to do is open the case nearby the iPhone/iPad (NFC). I use them with both Android and iPhone/iPad...


----------



## openyoureyes

Does anyone have some experience with this one here?

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Boltune-Bl...?keywords=boltune+bh020&qid=1572335742&sr=8-4

These were on sale yesterday on Amazon.de for € 19,90 (~$ 22).


----------



## CardigdanWalk

Caipirina said:


> Replacement tips will cost arm&leg. But Chinese clones will be on AliX soon



see, I was worried like others too. Thinking that my current tips wouldn’t fit. But what you say is most likely true, we will get after market foam tips soon enough that will be the perfect fit.

for me the only thing that is stopping me pulling the trigger is the colour, really don’t like the white look


----------



## Bhelpoori

CardigdanWalk said:


> see, I was worried like others too. Thinking that my current tips wouldn’t fit. But what you say is most likely true, we will get after market foam tips soon enough that will be the perfect fit.
> 
> for me the only thing that is stopping me pulling the trigger is the colour, really don’t like the white look


Easily though expensively solved with Colorware: https://www.colorware.com/b-251-apple-airpod-designs.aspx


----------



## Caipirina

CardigdanWalk said:


> see, I was worried like others too. Thinking that my current tips wouldn’t fit. But what you say is most likely true, we will get after market foam tips soon enough that will be the perfect fit.
> 
> for me the only thing that is stopping me pulling the trigger is the colour, really don’t like the white look



The Chinese copy artists will have you covered in that department as well in no time. But I would not expect proper ANC and the same SQ ... but I have to say, what they crank out as black airpod clones these days is very impressive.


----------



## Caipirina

thimantha said:


> Couldn't check this thread for a couple of months. Any good new TWS earphones that might be worth buying on the 11.11 sale?



"good" is very subjective  

I collected a couple of 'cheap' options I spotted a few pages back. Can't say anything about the quality though.


----------



## r3vengee2

I keep reading posts here talking about how there is an _issue_ with the MW07 plus and Apple devices, something about a codec I think? Is the issue really that big that it should deter you from purchasing it?


----------



## Keputs

vstolpner said:


> Got my T5's! First impressions are fantastic!
> Will play with them over the weekend and post my review next week!



11.11 please be good to me LOL


----------



## BigZ12

BigZ12 said:


> Ok guys. I'm 99,9% sure that if you enable AptX in MacOS Catalina, you actually get AptX. Even if it shows SBC when using the "hold Alt and press bluetooth device to see codec in use" method.
> 
> You remember I was talking A LOT about the SBC noise with the Senn' MTWs (NFMI)? (the "metallic" noise, almost like something is loose inside the headphone/bud with deep punchy bass?)
> 
> ...



I confirmed it now, that Catalina supports AptX, using the Sony WH-1000XM3. MacOS Catalina still says SBC, but the Sony Headphones app says I have AptX. 

My ears didn't fail me this time either. 
It's a bit strange that I've never read that other people have identified this SBC-noise I've found/been talking about. 
But again, I solved a case with my hearing


----------



## billbishere

so after having so much trouble with the Koseton - I deceided to do a little research on all the good reviews they have... 

turns out they are super fake reviews.  

https://www.fakespot.com/product/ko...atency-built-in-mic-36-hours-playtime-upgrade

Makes sense.  As mine is the only bad review in the list.


----------



## mikp

all the noname products with high reviews are just fake, or some free for review groups that are still going on.


----------



## BigZ12

https://www.techradar.com/reviews/hands-on-apple-airpods-pro-review
First one out there.


----------



## webvan

Just received the Tiso i5, well in their Arespark AP-05 incarnation and they're...garbage. The SQ is poor with a huge emphasis on bass, so much so that they distort ! Enough said but I'll add that while they look "cute" (as in being tiny) they're so small that they're actually hard to tuck in my ear securely so that they don't move and lose the seal if I yawn or chew.

As a side note I also tried the wired Final E2000 a friend had lying around and...wow, the sound is fabulous compared to any of the TWSs I've tried (or even my open ATH AD1000 cans). All the right frequencies are there and the stereo picture is wide and accurate with the different parts being easy to pick up. Has anyone else here tried them ?


----------



## rhsauer

theGatMan said:


> Using an iPhone 11 Pro with WF/XM3 and absolutely no such problem.  Both the phone and the IEM’s are in their respective latest software updates.
> 
> Just tested it and I’m on the JR Yamanote line in Tokyo, probably the most Bluetooth unfriendly environment on the planet.   Rock solid performance.



Can you connect your iPhone to a Mac via lightning, run Console, and check the Bluetooth connection speed for the XM3s? My connection speed drops almost immediately from 256 to 127kbps.


----------



## gibletzor

Anybody heard anything about these Motorolas before?  
https://electronics.woot.com/offers...on&utm_medium=email&ref_=pe_3199310_447415080

Wouldn't expect something amazing from Motorola these days, but there's a lot of these chi-fi brands I wouldn't expect anything but trash from either!


----------



## LordToneeus

BigZ12 said:


> https://www.techradar.com/reviews/hands-on-apple-airpods-pro-review
> First one out there.



I pre-ordered these from Best Buy this morning (courtesy of $110 in rewards). I’m trying these instead of the MW07 Plus/Go. I hope the sound doesn’t disappoint. I think so long as it sounds at least as good as the Powerbeats Pros I sampled I’ll be content.


----------



## bubsdaddy

rhsauer said:


> A note for those of you with an iPhone 11:
> 
> I just "upgraded" my iPhone 11 Pro Max from iOS 13.2 beta 4 to the final release of 13.2, connected my Sony WF-1000XM3s to my iPhone 11 Pro Max, and tried to record a voice memo -- and the Bluetooth connection dropped almost immediately. And a second time ... and a third time. This is a problem that happened with some regularity before I upgraded last week to 13.2 beta 4, when it seemed to get better -- but with the final release of 13.2 the problem is worse than ever.
> 
> ...




How do you check the connection speed?


----------



## johnyr

Hi, I've read through several last pages of this thread but coming into the running discussion, I'm lost with my question. Hope somebody could help as I've always got great info here.
I'm currently using Magaosi K3 Pro (2017 model) with Samsung Note 9 phone. The resulting sound is sufficient for my needs, however I'm thinking of going wireless. My questions are:
1. Are there currently wireless in-ears available that would produce the same quality as my Magaosi K3 Pro? And if so, what's the price level?
2. Is there a way to turn my current phones wireless? I can see BT headbands with MMCX connectors but I have no clue about the quality of the sound produced by these.

Thanks a lot!


----------



## Minarets

BigZ12 said:


> https://www.techradar.com/reviews/hands-on-apple-airpods-pro-review
> First one out there.


thanks, there are several youtube reviews now out there in the last hour.


----------



## bubsdaddy

Pretty good review of the Amazon Echo Buds:

https://www.theverge.com/2019/10/29...ds-review-features-bose-noise-reduction-price


----------



## BigZ12

Minarets said:


> thanks, there are several youtube reviews now out there in the last hour.


Yes, they popped up everywhere  A lot of good reviews as well.


----------



## ArjenIsM3

Has anyone tried the (relatively new) QCY T5 yet? Tried using search but didn't find anything.


----------



## webvan

BigZ12 said:


> Yes, they popped up everywhere  A lot of good reviews as well.


What "good" reviews did you find ? Can't say that I found any more informative than the original techradar article


----------



## BigZ12

webvan said:


> What "good" reviews did you find ? Can't say that I found any more informative than the original techradar article


A couple of videoes with mostly positive feedback, both with features and SQ.


----------



## mattedialdoc

Minarets said:


> thanks, there are several youtube reviews now out there in the last hour.



Ugh no volume control!!!!!!


----------



## veraideishal

veraideishal said:


> Indeed they have. I actually downloaded it even before it was “officially” released, when it was quietly put on the App Store (though the App Store listing still says that it is a “beta”).
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Probably the final update I’ll make on the high-pitched sound and the hiss on the Fostex TM2 when using Etymotic ER3 IEMs: I caved and bought a pair of Etymotic ER2 IEMs to replace the ER3 in hopes that its different driver (DD vs BA) and/or its lower sensitivity (96dB vs. 105dB) would suppress the tone and hiss. I’m glad to report that it has. Mostly. I can still hear it if I concentrate, but it is no longer immediately apparent.


----------



## C_Lindbergh

Well will be interesting to se how Air Pods Pro actually compare to products both in the same price range and cheaper, I mean good SQ for tech Youtubers is one thing after all.


----------



## ZolaIII

johnyr said:


> Hi, I've read through several last pages of this thread but coming into the running discussion, I'm lost with my question. Hope somebody could help as I've always got great info here.
> I'm currently using Magaosi K3 Pro (2017 model) with Samsung Note 9 phone. The resulting sound is sufficient for my needs, however I'm thinking of going wireless. My questions are:
> 1. Are there currently wireless in-ears available that would produce the same quality as my Magaosi K3 Pro? And if so, what's the price level?
> 2. Is there a way to turn my current phones wireless? I can see BT headbands with MMCX connectors but I have no clue about the quality of the sound produced by these.
> ...


1. I don't know, probably yes but not TWS 
2. Yes & a bit better but not with a headband but with mini dongle BT receiver or DAP with a clip & a size of box of matches. Shanlin UP2 BT receiver around 75~80$, Shanling M0 DAP & BT transceiver around 100$~100€. Anyway anything else with at least this Sabre DAC & QC BT with support for LDAC, the phone has it but it would be nice to be able to leave phone out of equation for couple buck's more where M0 as the smallest DAP comes in.


----------



## AtariPrime

BigZ12 said:


> A couple of videoes with mostly positive feedback, both with features and SQ.




Please help me understand why anyone would want this or the old version.

1) They are gigantic compared to many other options on the market and you end up looking like you have straws in your ears.
2) The battery life is only 5 hours at best, which is about a 1/3 of other options.
3) The sound quality is average at best.
4) The price is near the top of the market.

The only reasons I can see to buy this is that maybe it somehow pairs quicker than other options due to the proprietary tech and maybe it has a good mic.  All in all though if those are the priorities, get a Jabra 75t.  I just don't get it, it feels like the only reason to buy these are because sheep like their routine.  An Apple earbud has no place on an audiophile forum.


----------



## borzo

Hello everyone, I tried to find a good suggestion, but I always find controversial opinions. Is there good true wireless earplugs with bt 5.0 and aptx for a price that doesn't make me want to kill myself (around 100 bucks / 80 euros)?


----------



## mikp

AtariPrime said:


> Please help me understand why anyone would want this or the old version.
> 
> 1) They are gigantic compared to many other options on the market and you end up looking like you have straws in your ears.
> 2) The battery life is only 5 hours at best, which is about a 1/3 of other options.
> ...




also..why do every 20-25 year olds seem to have a "sleeve" tattoo?


----------



## ZolaIII

AtariPrime said:


> Please help me understand why anyone would want this or the old version.
> 
> 1) They are gigantic compared to many other options on the market and you end up looking like you have straws in your ears.
> 2) The battery life is only 5 hours at best, which is about a 1/3 of other options.
> ...


Well with this last one's they at least integrated DAC/AMP which does get into entry lv audiophile club. Something alike Texas Instruments PCM5101 (just as reference). Needles to say neither driver's or codec follows up to those expectations. But many will copy it & some may just put things right so we may really get TWS worthy of discussion next year.


----------



## rhsauer

bubsdaddy said:


> How do you check the connection speed?



If you have a Mac, you can determine the codec and the connection speed that Bluetooth headphones are using to connect to an iPhone by (1) connecting the iPhone to a Mac with a lightning cable, (2) opening the Console app on the Mac, (3) clicking on the name of your iPhone on the navigation bar on the left in Console, (4) giving the Mac permissions to connect to the iPhone when it asks (by clicking “Trust” and then putting in your PIN), and then (5) filtering the results (in the box at the top right) for “Bluetooth” and “A2DP.” More detailed instructions are on this board in several other places if you search — but that’s the gist. Once you’ve done all of that, you can clearly see in the Console app what codec the iPhone is connecting with and, on a second by second basis, the connection speed in kbps. It’s a lot easier than it sounds — particularly the second time.


----------



## ZolaIII

borzo said:


> Hello everyone, I tried to find a good suggestion, but I always find controversial opinions. Is there good true wireless earplugs with bt 5.0 and aptx for a price that doesn't make me want to kill myself (around 100 bucks / 80 euros)?


Try your luck with Edifier TWS1 for 35$.they aren't anything special but you do get more than you paid for. Or simply forget about TWS and buy a mini clip BT receiver.


----------



## C_Lindbergh

The Jabra 75t got more interesting, I asked if you could use the right/left ear bud independently since there was no mention of it anywhere, here's the answer that I got. 

". In early 2020, there will be a firmware update that will enable you to alternate between left and right earbuds."


----------



## HiFlight

johnyr said:


> Hi, I've read through several last pages of this thread but coming into the running discussion, I'm lost with my question. Hope somebody could help as I've always got great info here.
> I'm currently using Magaosi K3 Pro (2017 model) with Samsung Note 9 phone. The resulting sound is sufficient for my needs, however I'm thinking of going wireless. My questions are:
> 1. Are there currently wireless in-ears available that would produce the same quality as my Magaosi K3 Pro? And if so, what's the price level?
> 2. Is there a way to turn my current phones wireless? I can see BT headbands with MMCX connectors but I have no clue about the quality of the sound produced by these.
> ...


You might give the TRN BT20 or BT20S a try with your phone.  The sound is pretty much what you will hear with your phones wired.  BT20 is a bit less expensive than the BT20S...differences are longer play time and some sweat/moisture resistance on the BT20S.   BT20S also has AptX.  You can check them out HERE.  Amazon also has them available but at a higher price.


----------



## Slater

micr0be said:


> A question for this thread, I own the new KZ E10 TWS and my bluetooth connection to them (from all devices) is horrendous, I mean It connects fine to everything I own so far but every single thing loses signal if its not ludicrously in front of my face or at an angle where it can see both ears otherwise I only hear one ear. I tried going outside in case of severe interference but It was at best just as bad.
> I even tried disabling aptX hoping it would make some kind of difference but not really.
> 
> Maybe my ears are so big that they're covering the receivers, I don't know anymore.



Poor KZ. I don’t think they’ve ever made a single Bluetooth product that actually had a stable and reliable connection. They’ve been releasing Bluetooth stuff for years now, and are at least on their 7th or 8th product now. 

Seriously, they should have plenty of experience by now to get their act together. I just don’t get it.


----------



## Minarets

mattedialdoc said:


> Ugh no volume control!!!!!!



being an Apple Watch owner makes this not a problem for me. I could see how some wished they had that feature though


----------



## hifi80sman

Caipirina said:


> Replacement tips will cost arm&leg. But Chinese clones will be on AliX soon


Looks like no volume control, a clickable stem, and some possible ANC oscillation.  
https://www.techradar.com/reviews/hands-on-apple-airpods-pro-review


----------



## Slater (Oct 29, 2019)

johnyr said:


> Hi, I've read through several last pages of this thread but coming into the running discussion, I'm lost with my question. Hope somebody could help as I've always got great info here.
> I'm currently using Magaosi K3 Pro (2017 model) with Samsung Note 9 phone. The resulting sound is sufficient for my needs, however I'm thinking of going wireless. My questions are:
> 1. Are there currently wireless in-ears available that would produce the same quality as my Magaosi K3 Pro? And if so, what's the price level?
> 2. Is there a way to turn my current phones wireless? I can see BT headbands with MMCX connectors but I have no clue about the quality of the sound produced by these.
> ...



I used the K3 Pro with the TRN BT20 for a while. They worked great. Depending on your exact ear anatomy, you may need to reshape the ear guides with a hair dryer to get a perfect fit.

Note if you require aptX, you’ll want the BT20S. If you just need AAC, either model will work.

Another great option is the ES100. With it, you’ll be able to turn ANY of your headphones into Bluetooth. And the sound is stellar, plenty of power to drive anything under say 150ohms, the ability to choose between balanced or single ended output, and a kickass app with lots of control.


----------



## Minarets

hifi80sman said:


> Looks like no volume control, a clickable stem, and some possible ANC oscillation.
> https://www.techradar.com/reviews/hands-on-apple-airpods-pro-review


One reviewer already tried them on a plane and said the ANC did remarkably well.   
I don’t need it to do as well as over-ears but need it to do better than passive buds.


----------



## clerkpalmer

Speaking of the trn bt20 and 20s, can anyone provide simple pairing instructions? I had to factory reset my phone and I'm dreading getting them reconnected  Thanks in advance.


----------



## smwatson90

I bought a pair of ENACFIRE E18 the other day on a whim, reduced on Amazon so only £30. I assume they're a rebadge of something. Very pleasantly surprised actually. Sound is better than expected and intuitive to use. Need to find the right tips to get a good seal but it's potentially good.

Got a pair of the Anker Soundcore Liberty Air coming too. I think I prefer the Airpod style design, fancy trying them.


----------



## hifi80sman

Reviews on the AirPod Pro are not pushing the needle for me.  I had them in my shopping cart, but just removed them.  Several reviews indicate there is more bass on the current generation of AirPods.  Those of you like a flat signature may enjoy these, but if you're not part of the Apple ecosystem, may as well go with the Amazon Echo Buds with dual Knowles BAs.  "Neutral" and "flat" are words that make me cringe.  



https://www.t3.com/news/apple-airpods-pro-review


----------



## webvan

This passage "As well as noise isolation from the ear tips, AirPods Pro has _active_ noise cancellation as well. The further good news is that Apple's ANC is really good; it cuts back city-centre traffic to barely a murmur in the background, and the rumble of being on the Tube is almost gone, with a just few higher-pitched noises slipping though (as is often the case with active noise cancellation)." from https://www.t3.com/news/apple-airpods-pro-review is pretty intriguing as I wouldn't have been able to write the same about the Sony WF-1000xm3 or the Libratone Track Air+...


----------



## Minarets

hifi80sman said:


> Reviews on the AirPod Pro are not pushing the needle for me.  I had them in my shopping cart, but just removed them.  Several reviews indicate there is more bass on the current generation of AirPods.  Those of you like a flat signature may enjoy these, but if you're not part of the Apple ecosystem, may as well go with the Amazon Echo Buds with dual Knowles BAs.  "Neutral" and "flat" are words that make me cringe.
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.t3.com/news/apple-airpods-pro-review



Really? The two i watched said there was more bass than the original due to the seal.


----------



## Minarets

My Earfun free arrived today.  Can’t wait to give them a go when I get home.


----------



## willryan042

AtariPrime said:


> Please help me understand why anyone would want this or the old version.
> 
> 1) They are gigantic compared to many other options on the market and you end up looking like you have straws in your ears.
> 2) The battery life is only 5 hours at best, which is about a 1/3 of other options.
> ...



1) Not really, and they're actually a bit smaller than the older airpods. Most TW buds have their own quirks. I feel like Frankenstein when I wear the Senn MTW, but at the end of the day I don't give a crap what they look like. Function > fashion.

2) Dude, WHAT. I don't think any true wireless bud has a 15 hour battery life. Most are 3-6, so that's a total BS point.

3) I mean we don't know what the SQ is like since they're not even out yet, but no one's expecting audiophile quality from Apple buds. People get them for the convenience as well as "ecosystem-only" features that you can't get with any other bluetooth buds.

4) Nope. These are obviously meant to compete with Senn's MTW, Audio Technica TW, B&O E8, Sony TW, MW07, etc. All of which are between $230-350 or so, and almost all of which also don't have ANC like the Airpods.


----------



## geoxile

willryan042 said:


> 1) Not really, and they're actually a bit smaller than the older airpods. Most TW buds have their own quirks. I feel like Frankenstein when I wear the Senn MTW, but at the end of the day I don't give a crap what they look like. Function > fashion.
> 
> 2) Dude, WHAT. I don't think any true wireless bud has a 15 hour battery life. Most are 3-6, so that's a total BS point.
> 
> ...



Most 2019 true wireless earphones using the latest qualcomm BT chipsets (qcc302x, qcc 303x, qcc 5100) claim 9-10 hours. Some like the creative outlier gold claim up to 14. In the case of the golds I'd say its roughly true. And the mavin air x (at least on the right side, since the other on my set is defective) gets about 8-9 of its claimed 10 hours


----------



## willryan042

geoxile said:


> Most 2019 true wireless earphones using the latest qualcomm BT chipsets (qcc302x, qcc 303x, qcc 5100) claim 9-10 hours. Some like the creative outlier gold claim up to 14. In the case of the golds I'd say its roughly true. And the mavin air x (at least on the right side, since the other on my set is defective) gets about 8-9 of its claimed 10 hours


 
Well damn, I haven't really poked my head in here since the Senn/Audio Technica/MW07 releases a year or so ago. Crazy how much has changed in a year.


----------



## Minarets

I have maybe 15-20 pairs of headphone for all sorts of listening pleasure.  The OG AirPods became my everyday pair because they were just so simple to use. Not on, no off, no hassell.  Just put them in your ear and go.  In quiet areas they sounded decent too.  They were no audiophile headphones but when the surrounding were subdued, i thought they sounded good.  And for calls they are a no brainer.   

now with ANC, and better passive NC, they could be real winners.   Best pair, probably not, but best all round and convenient? Probably


----------



## msooffutt

Minarets said:


> I have maybe 15-20 pairs of headphone for all sorts of listening pleasure.  The OG AirPods became my everyday pair because they were just so simple to use. Not on, no off, no hassell.  Just put them in your ear and go.  In quiet areas they sounded decent too.  They were no audiophile headphones but when the surrounding were subdued, i thought they sounded good.  And for calls they are a no brainer.
> 
> now with ANC, and better passive NC, they could be real winners.   Best pair, probably not, but best all round and convenient? Probably



I agree 100%.  I’ve owned Senns, Anbes, M&D, Sabbat, jabra, and Two Sony true wireless, and at least for work, the old AirPods were the most reliable and convenient.  Now with just pure music listening, I give it to the others, but with work listening where I need to get them in and out of my pocket quickly and being able to reliably answer the phone, the AirPods won easily.  I don’t know if I’ll like these new iPods, but they check all of the right boxes.


----------



## clerkpalmer

Here is one take on sound quality that isn't great:


*We've yet to really test the new AirPods Pro with a range of music, but so far we've listened to a number of dance tracks from Ministry of Sound and the Interstellar soundtrack by Hans Zimmer to give us a sense of how well these in-ears cope.


What is instantly clear is that it's considerably better than the standard AirPods we've been using. While the original AirPods focus on ease of use rather than amazing sound quality, the AirPods Pro addresses that latter point.


Sure, the Pro doesn't come as bass-focused as the PowerBeats Pro, for example, but still certainly delivers a decent sound for what they are. For many they will be more than good enough for commuting and running, especially once you factor in the ANC performance.*




I really like the PB Pro SQ and if these were on par with that, I would be satisfied.  I would not be satisfied if they fall short however.  I guess we shall see tomorrow.  Bass is not the only measure of SQ.


----------



## Slater

hifi80sman said:


> Reviews on the AirPod Pro are not pushing the needle for me.  I had them in my shopping cart, but just removed them.  Several reviews indicate there is more bass on the current generation of AirPods.  Those of you like a flat signature may enjoy these, but if you're not part of the Apple ecosystem, may as well go with the Amazon Echo Buds with dual Knowles BAs.  "Neutral" and "flat" are words that make me cringe.
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.t3.com/news/apple-airpods-pro-review




I’m sure the “Pro” moniker will sell a lot just because of the name alone. Because who doesn’t want to be a “Pro” vs a chump, right?


----------



## jasaero

hifi80sman said:


> Reviews on the AirPod Pro are not pushing the needle for me.  I had them in my shopping cart, but just removed them.  Several reviews indicate there is more bass on the current generation of AirPods.  Those of you like a flat signature may enjoy these, but if you're not part of the Apple ecosystem, may as well go with the Amazon Echo Buds with dual Knowles BAs.  "Neutral" and "flat" are words that make me cringe.
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.t3.com/news/apple-airpods-pro-review




Haha, I don't think Neutral and Flat always means that they can't properly reproduce tracks that do have a good amount of bass per intent of the production.  What I don't like is bass enhanced tuning where music that technically has very subdued bass presence and the tuning gives it more presence.  If I listen to a rap track or a tuba I want bass.  If I listen to something where such things aren't heavy in the mix, but maybe exist, I don't want them refocused into the mix with tuning generally.


----------



## willryan042

^ I also find it extremely hard to believe that the old Airpods have more bass than IEM-Airpods.


----------



## jasaero

willryan042 said:


> ^ I also find it extremely hard to believe that the old Airpods have more bass than IEM-Airpods.



I totally get that could be the case for someone with small ears.  Our biology messes enough with impression of sealed buds from one person to next.  But when it's the original unsealed earpod/airpod style I am sure they have to compensate a lot for the lack of seal, but then if you have tiny ear pocket there where they are intended to sit, they WILL seal and you probably get exaggerated bass level all the sudden.


----------



## hifi80sman

clerkpalmer said:


> Here is one take on sound quality that isn't great:
> 
> 
> *We've yet to really test the new AirPods Pro with a range of music, but so far we've listened to a number of dance tracks from Ministry of Sound and the Interstellar soundtrack by Hans Zimmer to give us a sense of how well these in-ears cope.
> ...


Looking forward to your impressions.  None of the reviews I've seen have really shown anyone being blown away by the sound.  Most compare to the AirPods, which makes sense, but sound fairly poor, and simply say it's better.  Some reviews are even saying the AirPods have more bass, and while bass itself is certainly not a sign of good sound, it still gives me some pause, as I do like some thump in the trunk.  

No volume control and hybrid touch (pressure) controls are not compelling for me personally.


----------



## clerkpalmer

hifi80sman said:


> Looking forward to your impressions.  None of the reviews I've seen have really shown anyone being blown away by the sound.  Most compare to the AirPods, which makes sense, but sound fairly poor, and simply say it's better.  Some reviews are even saying the AirPods have more bass, and while bass itself is certainly not a sign of good sound, it still gives me some pause, as I do like some thump in the trunk.
> 
> No volume control and hybrid touch (pressure) controls are not compelling for me personally.



I can live wo the onboard volume but for 250 they better sing. Agree early reviews are discouraging for sq.  Perhaps apple is just not focused on sq.  Thankfully returns are easy.


----------



## Minarets

This one is promising.  Is she an audio file? Maybe not but still I just want all the functionality and the ease of use.


----------



## AtariPrime

willryan042 said:


> 1) Not really, and they're actually a bit smaller than the older airpods. Most TW buds have their own quirks. I feel like Frankenstein when I wear the Senn MTW, but at the end of the day I don't give a crap what they look like. Function > fashion.
> 
> 2) Dude, WHAT. I don't think any true wireless bud has a 15 hour battery life. Most are 3-6, so that's a total BS point.
> 
> ...



*1) Wasn't comparing them to each other, but other earbuds.  The stick out of your ear more than an inch, most earbuds do not.

2) Look at the Creative Outlier Air (8 hrs), Cambridge Melomania 1 (9 hrs), Creative Outlier Gold (14 hrs), and the Audio-Technica ATH-CKS5TW (15 hrs).  Most, in fact, are now crossing 8 hrs, 5 hours is so 2018.

3) The point is there are many better options for sound quality and most are much cheaper. 

4) Plenty of earbuds now have ANC.  There is the Sony WF-1000XM3 ($229) which gets 6-8 hrs. of battery life and I promise sounds better than anything Apple makes.  There are also the Libratone Track Air+ which are $186 at present and are smaller than any Airpod.*


----------



## Blueshound24 (Oct 29, 2019)

If one were looking for a good budget TWS that is balanced, yet dynamic, good but not basshead bass, good detail with crisp highs. Maybe a bit of V or U shaped sig? Which of these would be a good choice? Bomaker, EarFun Free, Kissral UFO, SSK TWS, or some other? TIA


----------



## XGUGU (Oct 29, 2019)

webvan said:


> Just received the Tiso i5, well in their Arespark AP-05 incarnation and they're...garbage. The SQ is poor with a huge emphasis on bass, so much so that they distort ! Enough said but I'll add that while they look "cute" (as in being tiny) they're so small that they're actually hard to tuck in my ear securely so that they don't move and lose the seal if I yawn or chew./QUOTE]
> 
> Remove the  mesh filter, they tend to aggressively block treble


----------



## tlau1125

Blueshound24 said:


> If one were looking for a good budget TWS that is balanced, yet dynamic, good but not basshead bass, good detail with crisp highs. Maybe a bit of V or U shaped sig? Which of these would be a good choice? Bomaker, EarFun Free, Kissral UFO, SSK TWS, or some other? TIA


 Edifier TWS1 is also worth considering, especially given the upcoming 11.11 price at Aliexpress.  It uses the QCC3020 chip and therefore supports aptx, but oddly it does not support aac.


----------



## Mouseman

Slater said:


> Poor KZ. I don’t think they’ve ever made a single Bluetooth product that actually had a stable and reliable connection. They’ve been releasing Bluetooth stuff for years now, and are at least on their 7th or 8th product now.
> 
> Seriously, they should have plenty of experience by now to get their act together. I just don’t get it.


I don't get it, either. I received mine today, after much patient waiting, and....they absolutely suck. They lose connection intermittently while they're on the bed next to me, and putting them in my (non-lead-lined) pants pocket is almost unusable. I've tested them with iPhone and my R5, so it's not an Apple problem. In fact, it's worse with Android. I guess KZ needs to stick to wires, although the "beta" pair isn't bad. 

But these? Total crap. Stay far away.


----------



## mattedialdoc

mattedialdoc said:


> The SSK just arrived. What a cool little case.
> 
> What’s the consensus on the SSK vs.   MPOW T5?. Of all the ones I’ve tried I’ve only kept the T5 and Bomaker. But he sound great to me. I’ll get these charged up and give them a listen. For $20 bucks I can’t say no to trying these!



So for me the SSK are just “ok” and not better than the MPOW or Bomaker.


----------



## Minarets

the Earfun Free's are pretty bassy.  i need to iphone EQ them before making any more thoughts.


----------



## Blueshound24 (Oct 29, 2019)

Minarets said:


> the Earfun Free's are pretty bassy.  i need to iphone EQ them before making any more thoughts.



I guess I can strike the Earfun Free off my list.


----------



## Storyline

Seeking advice for some bargain asement trawling on Amazon please. 

I have not been on this thread for ages as I got so fed up with pairing (as in not) my Sennheiser Momentum TW and so have been using an old pair of wired Shure and new wired FiiO IEMs. I have just installed the new frmware and hey presto - they work now. The only problem is that for SQ the FiiO blow them away so I'm now thinking of selling and getting something else to for the very occasional time I want TW.

I've just been on Amazon UK and the price of some of these no marque TW earbuds is mind blowing. I've just seen a pair on a deal for <£20. Some of these cheap ones have reasonable reviews but are there any that sound reasonable at these kind of prices ?


----------



## hifi80sman

Anyone have any feedback on the Audio-Technica ATH-CKS5TW?


----------



## Minarets

Holy smokes! If this is even close to true this will be my holy grail.   Must contain my excitement 

Uravgconmer says these sound the same as the Powerbeats pro but with slightly better bass.  That with all the features and it would be amazing.


----------



## jasaero

mattedialdoc said:


> So for me the SSK are just “ok” and not better than the MPOW or Bomaker.



Any reasoning analysis of how they are no better.  Been super curious about those, but haven't been able to nail down how they are different.


----------



## hifi80sman

Minarets said:


> Holy smokes! If this is even close to true this will be my holy grail.   Must contain my excitement
> 
> Uravgconmer says these sound the same as the Powerbeats pro but with slightly better bass.  That with all the features and it would be amazing.



I hate myself.


----------



## Minarets

hifi80sman said:


> I hate myself.




i am a salesman. lol  you're welcome.


----------



## Minarets

and on the Earfun Free....i stand corrected on my earlier thoughts.  i forgot i had the iphone EQ on bass boost becaude my soundpeats didn't have enough bass.  i turned the EQ off and these have just the right amount of bass for my liking, which is slightly boosted.  for the money these are fantastic.  the case doesn't feel as cheap as i thought.  the buds look kinda goofy, as i got white.  they sound great and are ipx7 rated.  that for  $34 this weekend they were.,..back to $49 i believe....these have to be up there with the sub $70 TWS


----------



## blazer78

hifi80sman said:


> I hate myself.



Lol don’t hate yourself. I’m listening to these now and they are probably the first true wireless in ears i have been satisfied with.


----------



## bronco1015

billbishere said:


> so after having so much trouble with the Koseton - I deceided to do a little research on all the good reviews they have...
> 
> turns out they are super fake reviews.
> 
> ...


Don't worry, i'll be joining you with a bad review very soon. These were some of the worst i've heard. Actually they really are probably the worst i've heard in TWS.


----------



## mattedialdoc

jasaero said:


> Any reasoning analysis of how they are no better.  Been super curious about those, but haven't been able to nail down how they are different.



I think the Bomaker and MPow have deeper bass, wider soundstage, and sharper highs and mids than the SSK. They are a little more expensive...but under $50.


----------



## Minarets

blazer78 said:


> Lol don’t hate yourself. I’m listening to these now and they are probably the first true wireless in ears i have been satisfied with.


how did you get them early?


----------



## georgelai57

Minarets said:


> and on the Earfun Free....i stand corrected on my earlier thoughts.  i forgot i had the iphone EQ on bass boost becaude my soundpeats didn't have enough bass.  i turned the EQ off and these have just the right amount of bass for my liking, which is slightly boosted.  for the money these are fantastic.  the case doesn't feel as cheap as i thought.  the buds look kinda goofy, as i got white.  they sound great and are ipx7 rated.  that for  $34 this weekend they were.,..back to $49 i believe....these have to be up there with the sub $70 TWS


I wish Apple would have a fast access from Apple Music straight to the equalizer under Settings. I sometimes forget to do the same too.


----------



## blazer78

Minarets said:


> how did you get them early?



Time travel


----------



## clerkpalmer

So we have a review saying better bass than PB pro and a review saying worse.


----------



## bronco1015

hifi80sman said:


> Anyone have any feedback on the Audio-Technica ATH-CKS5TW?


i found them on sale toward the end of August i believe, or supposedly was them, and was a site that was all, hurry only 5 left in stock. lol. But i've been wanting to pick these up as well potentially, but not seen much about them in this thread or reviews for that matter.


----------



## Minarets

blazer78 said:


> Time travel


more thoughts? sound quality? and how well is the ANC?


----------



## gibletzor

So it looks like Razer is getting into the True Wireless game.  They're coming out with the Hammerhead TWS which is supposed to have a 60ms latency, but doesn't advertise AptX-LL.  I got a little excited to try them out at some point even though I'm not a fan of Razer products overall, until I saw that they're only supposed to get 3 hours battery life.  What??


----------



## clerkpalmer

Changing topics for a minute,  I seriously considered selling my note 10 for an iphone 11 pro today. My family is invested in apple and while I find iphones boring, they are definitely excellent phones. But I couldn't bring myself to commit to AAC only with my tw addiction.  So I'm standing pat and anxiously awaiting someone making a kick ass pair of LDAC tw headphones. Carry on.


----------



## blazer78 (Oct 29, 2019)

Minarets said:


> more thoughts? sound quality? and how well is the ANC?



It has been a while since I wore earphones costing less than $1000. Overall I'm satisfied with the sound quality for the price paid. Being dynamic drivers you would expect a nice strong meaty bass, however they are surprisingly well controlled. Theres an emphasis on the midrange, treble takes a back seat. Timbre is natural, never harsh or sibilant even at high volumes which is fantastic. Obviously, the treble performance isn't as great as the andromeda (OG) or Sony's super tweeter, but it is definitely a relaxing and easy listen.

Comfort wise - very comfortable, fit is good and stays in the ears. very light. Impressed with the technology that tells you whether you have a good seal or not, saves time.

ANC - still testing, easily cuts out the city rumble and A/C noise in the office.


----------



## geoxile

willryan042 said:


> Well damn, I haven't really poked my head in here since the Senn/Audio Technica/MW07 releases a year or so ago. Crazy how much has changed in a year.


Yea, at the end of last year qualcomm launched their new bluetooth chips and they're a huge jump over the last


hifi80sman said:


> Anyone have any feedback on the Audio-Technica ATH-CKS5TW?


Based on the 10m listed range they're not using a QCC30xx chipset, so might have weak connection.


----------



## clerkpalmer

blazer78 said:


> It has been a while since I wore earphones costing less than $1000.


Sounds like you probably have a critical ear. Have you tried any other tws for comparison?


----------



## blazer78

clerkpalmer said:


> Sounds like you probably have a critical ear. Have you tried any other tws for comparison?



Momentum TWs, Audio technica's older model (cant remember model number anymore) and a couple others.


----------



## Minarets

I


blazer78 said:


> It has been a while since I wore earphones costing less than $1000. Overall I'm satisfied with the sound quality for the price paid. Being dynamic drivers you would expect a nice strong meaty bass, however they are surprisingly well controlled. Theres an emphasis on the midrange, treble takes a back seat. Timbre is natural, never harsh or sibilant even at high volumes which is fantastic. Obviously, the treble performance isn't as great as the andromeda (OG) or Sony's super tweeter, but it is definitely a relaxing and easy listen.
> 
> Comfort wise - very comfortable, fit is good and stays in the ears. very light. Impressed with the technology that tells you whether you have a good seal or not, saves time.
> 
> ANC - still testing, easily cuts out the city rumble and A/C noise in the office.


thanks


----------



## gibletzor (Oct 30, 2019)

The Earfun Free are great!  Excellent sound all around, great fit, Qi charging, USB-C, 6 hours on a charge.  This ticks every box for me except you can't use both sides independently and buttons instead of touch controls.  Not enough to hate them.  Would prefer it to have volume control too, but not a deal breaker.


----------



## gibletzor

Another pair I got today via one of those Facebook groups that refunds the cost of what you paid for them after you leave a review.  A cheap exercise oriented TWS set.  Out of the box, the bass is heavy and a little overpowering.  Upper mids and highs are muffled and pretty bad.  I boosted them pretty far via EQ on my Galaxy S9+ and they actually soundgood after.  And by pretty good I mean they're not annoyingly muddy anymore.  They're definitely not bad after EQing though.  They also love having Dolby Atmos turned on more than most other TWS I've tried.  They're much more comfortable than I anticipated them being as well.  They're big and boxy but it hasn't been a problem.  The ear hooks are very bendy for getting the right fit and haven't interfered with my glasses at all.  I'd say they're worth it if you can catch them on sale, if you want a cheap set of TWS to do vigorous exercise in and don't care about breaking.  Probably not worth the regular price of $40 though compared to other options.  They're definitely not super stylish or going to win any awards for sound quality, but they're not awful.


----------



## carlosonunez (Oct 30, 2019)

Oh man; this thread is the holy grail of TWS. I've tried so many! Here are my quick thoughts on all of the pairs I've used over the years. Note: I have small ears, so fit is a challenge for me:

*AirPods v1:* Easiest Bluetooth headphones to pair ever, especially on a Mac, but surprisingly easy on other devices as well. Sound is okay, not great. Isolation is absent. AAC only. Control system kind of stinks; taps are worse than buttons. Phone calls are God-tier; could use these anywhere. Battery life okay at 5 hours, though in the past it was the best you could get. Being able to use each pod independently made this feel longer. No transparency mode or ANC. Case was pocketable; fit in the coin pocket. *Recommend.*

*Bragi Dash Pros:* A bit challenging to pair. Even more challenging to update. Sound is okay for $100; poor for $300. Bass is basically absent, mids and highs a bit muddy. No separation and shoebox-sized soundstage; worse than other IEMs. I'd say the sound profile was below-flat. Isolation was very good. Control system was very good; 4D menu was well beyond its years. AAC only. Abysmal for phone calls; troublesome indoors and unusable outdoors. Also, phone calls were imbalanced, which was annoying. Battery life okay at 3.5 hours; using its features brought that down a bit. Transparency mode was God-tier; nothing comes close to it. Case was a brick; not pocketable. They were waterproof, but they also had terrible QC; showering with them broke them twice. Didn't use the fitness features; already had a smartwatch. Sadly, *do not recommend.

Custom Bragi/Starkey Dash Pro.* A massive rollercoaster ride. Same as Dash Pro, but with more bass b/c custom. Sound was actually okay after using the Mimi equalizer that came with the app. Heavily depends on how well they fit, which is an ordeal. I needed to use Otoferm to wear these every time, but my ears typically run dry. (I have to use lubricant for my custom-molded sleep ear plugs, too.) Massive pain to get repaired; expect two weeks wait time every time. Isolation is unmatched, though. You can tune everything out at one tick above minimum volume. Insane. That's why it was such a rollercoaster ride. They were so, so good to use on flights, issues aside. Considered ordering another set to deal with the battery issues, but that plan died when Bragi did. Sadly, *do not recommend.

Jabra Elite 65t:* Easy to pair; not as easy as AirPods. Easy to update, but took a while. Sound is good, but not great. Like AirPods, but better. AAC only. Control system was fine, though physical buttons can be tiring on your ears. Fit was a massive sore spot for me; could not wear them past two hours. Comply tips sort-of worked, but they wouldn't fit in the case if you used them. Call quality was great, but struggled outdoors. Battery life okay at 3.5 hours, though this is low-end now. Transparency mode was passable; things sounded slightly robotic. Case was pocketable; fit in the coin pocket. *Recommend...if they fit you.

B&O Beoplay E8:* Easy to pair. Easy to update, but took a while. I didn't like the sound profile. Heavy-ish bass for no reason. Felt artificial. Mids and highs okay. Small soundstage, as expected. AAC only. Control system was annoying; don't remember much about it except it annoying me. Fit was amazing, especially with normal-sized Comply tips (which they used no problem). Call quality was absolute trash. Transparency mode was trash too; everything sounded underwater. Really liked the case, but it was big. Not pocketable. *Do not recommend.

Sennheiser Momentum TW:* Easy-ish to pair. Easy to update, but took a while. LOVED how these sounded. Bass was big, but not overbearing. Mids and highs were crisp. Great clarity, and great separation. I'd say the sound was light V-shaped. AAC and AptX supported. Fit was amazing, especially with Comply tips (which they used no problem). Call quality was not great, but passable. Fine for using indoors. Transparency mode was fine. Life-like, but quiet. Really liked the case; felt quality. Pocketable. Battery life was fine at 5-ish hours,* but they have a massive bug wherein the earbuds essentially never enter sleep mode.* Consequently, they need constant charging and will not only discharge rapidly when the battery in the case is dead, but they will also pair with your phone _while they are in the case_. The number of times I tried to use the headphones but couldn't becasue they were either dead or close to dying was too damn high. Updates have addressed the issue (they sort-of sleep now), but it's still an open issue. No idea how these got the ok for Production with this regression open, but it is what it is. *Recommend.

Samsung Galaxy Buds:* Very easy to pair, especially if you have a Samsung phone. Easy to update. A lot of people seem to like how these sound, but I don't think they sound that great. Mids and highs sound artificial to me. Bass was lacking. Tried hard to find it with a bunch of different tips. AAC and Samsung Scalable Codec (SBC-derivative) only. Fit was really good; not as so-comfy-you'll-forget-them as the Senns were. Call quality was not great, but passable. Fine for using indoors. Transparency mode was passable; not great. *This feature, along with a bunch of others, only works if you have an Android device.* Everyone sounded robotic, but I got used to them. Very small case. Very pocketable; fit in my coin pocket. *Recommend.*

*PowerBeats Pro:* AirPods-easy to pair. Updates automatically. Great sound. Nice bass, heavy. Mids and highs clean enough. Small soundstage. AAC only. Fit was great. Ear hooks could be more adjustable though. Isolation wasn't great, even with Complys. Call quality was AirPods-tier, so really good. No transparency mode. Big case, not pocketable. Stereo pair breaks up in congested Bluetooth airspace. You need to invoke Siri or Google Assistant to fix. Very annoying, but I'm assuming this isn't a problem with iPhones. *Recommend.

Master and Dynamics MW07+:* Pairing experience is alright. You have to take out the right bud to pair it with another device. A bit annoying, especially with Complys on. Updating experience uncertain, since they don't come with an app. These sound really good. The bass doesn't attack as hard as the Momentums do, but it is REALLY clean. Listening to jazz on these is nice, but the Senns are better for trap with that heavy bass. You hear it more than you feel it...but sometimes you feel it. Mids and highs are CRISPY. Super duper clean. Beautiful separation; better than the Senns, as the treble isn't as sibilant. Soundstage feels bigger than it really is. These support SBC HD and AptX. They _theoretically_ support AAC, but I can't use them as such with my Mac. They still sound quite good through SBC alone, but this might deter iPhone users. Call quality surprised me. These are AMAZING for calls. Extremely usable indoors and out. Fit is really good; I can wear these for hours no problem. Transparency mode is okay, but not great. Senns were better here. Almost life-like, but quiet. LOVE this case. It's cold and unapologetic stainless steel. Yes, it's a fingerprint magnet, but it also looks SUPER cool. Very pocketable. Fits in coin pocket. *Highly recommend.

AirPods Pro: *Pending.


----------



## hifi80sman

bronco1015 said:


> Don't worry, i'll be joining you with a bad review very soon. These were some of the worst i've heard. Actually they really are probably the worst i've heard in TWS.


Ended up returning mine as well.  Extreme EQ made them sound decent and I was going to use them for the gym and such, but when I switched to another pair of TWS', I forgot to reset the EQ and nearly pierced my eardrums.  They looked good and were comfortable, but just couldn't deal with EQing back and forth.


----------



## hifi80sman

clerkpalmer said:


> So we have a review saying better bass than PB pro and a review saying worse.


It's all up to you @clerkpalmer!  You can do it!


----------



## gibletzor

carlosonunez said:


> Oh man; this thread is the holy grail of TWS. I've tried so many! Here are my quick thoughts on all of the pairs I've used over the years:
> 
> *AirPods v1:* Easiest Bluetooth headphones to pair ever, especially on a Mac, but surprisingly easy on other devices as well. Sound is okay, not great. Isolation is absent. AAC only. Control system kind of stinks; taps are worse than buttons. Phone calls are God-tier; could use these anywhere. Battery life okay at 5 hours, though in the past it was the best you could get. Being able to use each pod independently made this feel longer. No transparency mode or ANC. Case was pocketable; fit in the coin pocket. *Recommend.*
> 
> ...


When was the last time you used your Galaxy Buds?  There were a couple firmware updates this summer that boosted the sound quality a fair amount.  Also if you haven't already, try some 3rd party tips.  I use Tennmak Whirlwinds on mine and they sound fantastic with plenty of bass.


----------



## carlosonunez

gibletzor said:


> When was the last time you used your Galaxy Buds?  There were a couple firmware updates this summer that boosted the sound quality a fair amount.  Also if you haven't already, try some 3rd party tips.  I use Tennmak Whirlwinds on mine and they sound fantastic with plenty of bass.



I got them in July this year, but have since returned them. That's a good update, though!


----------



## hifi80sman

clerkpalmer said:


> Changing topics for a minute,  I seriously considered selling my note 10 for an iphone 11 pro today. My family is invested in apple and while I find iphones boring, they are definitely excellent phones. But I couldn't bring myself to commit to AAC only with my tw addiction.  So I'm standing pat and anxiously awaiting someone making a kick ass pair of LDAC tw headphones. Carry on.


Why not trade in the Note 10, get the iPhone, then pick up an LG V30 or V35 for a couple of Benjamins (aptX, aptX HD, LDAC).  It will also have the Hi-Fi Quad DAC if you ever want to go wired.

Shoot, LG V30 (renewed) is dirt cheap.
https://www.amazon.com/LG-V30-H932-Certified-Refurbished/dp/B07DL11YRX/


----------



## gibletzor

hifi80sman said:


> Ended up returning mine as well.  Extreme EQ made them sound decent and I was going to use them for the gym and such, but when I switched to another pair of TWS', I forgot to reset the EQ and nearly pierced my eardrums.  They looked good and were comfortable, but just couldn't deal with EQing back and forth.


Returned mine as well, but because whichever side was the slave would disconnect constantly.


----------



## stacey

Curious to hear how good the Apple AirPod pro is. Last one I tried are the Bragi, and yeah..... those were trash. I currently have Bose QC20 for the ANC but if Apple sounds better I’d rather switch to that.


----------



## hifi80sman (Oct 30, 2019)

CNET says there's more bass in the Pros vs. original AND says they compete with the Sony WF-1000XM3 as far as ANC & sound.  Better calls on the Pros vs. Sony (as expected).


----------



## johnyr

Thanks for the tips for BT adapters. Looks like Shanling UP2 might be the way to go. TRN BT20s looks good too but I guess the sound quality might be lower than UP2 and reviews talk about problematic pairing etc.
Is there anything similar to UP2 that would be worth considering - I mean better features for similar money.

One more thing. Some of these BT adapters have some noise cancelling/reduction in their specs. Does this work for the music being played or is that only for calls? Having noise cancellation would probably be fine, however, I don't know how much it affects the SQ. Any comments on this?

I also looked for a short MMCX cable, as I'd probably fix UP2 somewhere near my collar to be able to use the built-in mic, but I can't find anything short, so that's probably not a way to go.

Thanks everyone.


----------



## veraideishal (Oct 30, 2019)

johnyr said:


> One more thing. Some of these BT adapters have some noise cancelling/reduction in their specs. Does this work for the music being played or is that only for calls? Having noise cancellation would probably be fine, however, I don't know how much it affects the SQ. Any comments on this?



If you see the words “Qualcomm” and “noise cancelling” together, potentially with the term “cVc”, it always means that it is for cancelling noise from the built-in microphone for phone calls only (i.e. it only improves call quality for the other person). Because it comes “for free” with the Qualcomm chips used, most manufacturers just throw it on the spec sheet to sex it up. It makes no difference for listening.


----------



## C_Lindbergh

I'm thinking of just skipping true wireless for a while, and use my BT adapter another 1-2 years, unless Sennheiser kan stun everyone with they new model that should come out soon. 

There's always something that put me off any given true wireless bud at this point -.-


----------



## webvan (Oct 30, 2019)

hifi80sman said:


> CNET says there's more bass in the Pros vs. original AND says they compete with the Sony WF-1000XM3 as far as ANC & sound.  Better calls on the Pros vs. Sony (as expected).




Strange review, what does "sound better" mean ? With so little detail given that's just his personal preference, sure the Sonys sound "pleasing" but I doubt the Pros have the same "Sony" sound signature as they're said to be balanced overall, not a description you could apply to the Sonys with their strong bass and recessed mids and highs. As for the "fit", hum...the Sonys are probably the TWS with which people have had the most fitting problems, getting/keeping a seal...did this guy get one, doesn't seem to know about the "concept"  My Pros should be coming in tomorrow so I'll be sure to pipe in


----------



## rcmo (Oct 30, 2019)

A quick (relative, dirty, etc.) comparison of my current tws with imm6. I like what I hear and what I see 
Forgot to include the Jabra. Now Jabra 65t, Airpods Pro, Shanling MTW100, MEE X10 and Sony XF1000M3.


----------



## SilverEars (Oct 30, 2019)

stacey said:


> Curious to hear how good the Apple AirPod pro is. Last one I tried are the Bragi, and yeah..... those were trash. I currently have Bose QC20 for the ANC but if Apple sounds better I’d rather switch to that.


Bose QC20 is great for ANC, you definately made the right decision when it comes to picking iem with ANC.  I will have to see if Apple can match it's performance because the QC20 ANC is so good.  Reason why I like it is that I preferred wired for SQ (wireless seems to lose some fidelity compared to wired with active EQ) and battery is 16 hrs with ANC.  There is no iem with that long of a battery life with ANC.  Caveat is it's not for physical activity use due to the ciruit/battery bulk in the wireline, and prefer TW for physical activities. Hopefully the Bose NC 700 TW can do great ANC in an iem.  But, why does wired ANC iem makes sense?  It has 16hr battery life for long flights, and being wired you can plug to the flight entertainment.  It's practical.  I prefer ANC device to be light and small like iem.

I'm really curious what Airpod Pro's adaptive EQ can do?  And as result, the general frequency response, and how it sounds.


----------



## Bhelpoori

30th October is also when the Amazon Echo buds come out, also with ANC... The reviews are mixed:
CNet: https://www.cnet.com/reviews/amazon-echo-buds-review/
PCMag: https://www.pcmag.com/review/371519/amazon-echo-buds

Would be really pleased if someone who gets them today can comment on how good they really are...


----------



## SilverEars (Oct 30, 2019)

Bhelpoori said:


> 30th October is also when the Amazon Echo buds come out, also with ANC... The reviews are mixed:
> CNet: https://www.cnet.com/reviews/amazon-echo-buds-review/
> PCMag: https://www.pcmag.com/review/371519/amazon-echo-buds
> 
> Would be really pleased if someone who gets them today can comment on how good they really are...


Review on the Verge seems enthusiastic.  https://www.theverge.com/2019/10/29...ds-review-features-bose-noise-reduction-price
In general they say SQ is good.  Can commercial reviewers can be trusted with opinions is another though.

What is Bose noise reduction?  What is the difference from ANC?


----------



## SilverEars

hifi80sman said:


> CNET says there's more bass in the Pros vs. original AND says they compete with the Sony WF-1000XM3 as far as ANC & sound.  Better calls on the Pros vs. Sony (as expected).


Not surprising as they should have more bass due to actual fit and seal with tips now. The upper frequencies don't look bad, it's just the bass roll-off due to lack of seal.  I'm pretty sure the pro will do better in the bass.

Airpods 2


----------



## clerkpalmer

CNET also saying the sony sound better.  That's disappointing.  I guess you trade sweat proofing for a little sq. I was not wowed by the sony but I was having fit issues and gave up on them quickly.


----------



## d3myz

Minarets said:


> the Earfun Free's are pretty bassy.  i need to iphone EQ them before making any more thoughts.


Are you using the stock tip? I'd recommend a wide bore tip. like the auvio's from radioshack or the JVC spiral dot. I don't think they are as bassy as the Mpow T5 or the SSK/Anbes 359.


----------



## d3myz

SilverEars said:


> Not surprising as they should have more bass due to actual fit and seal with tips now. The upper frequencies don't look bad, it's just the bass roll-off due to lack of seal.  I'm pretty sure the pro will do better in the bass.
> 
> Airpods 2


I do notice in the video he's using a large tip. my interest is peaked, but after getting bent over for my iphone xs max for $1400 last year, I just don't think i'm going to pay $250 for a set of TWS' that "sound better than the previous airpods"  Nobody so far has really said Wow, these things sound incredible. I'll reserve my judgement until I hear what the folks on here say about them. I would def. be interested in a quality ANC TWS' I currently don't own one.


----------



## d3myz

Minarets said:


> and on the Earfun Free....i stand corrected on my earlier thoughts.  i forgot i had the iphone EQ on bass boost becaude my soundpeats didn't have enough bass.  i turned the EQ off and these have just the right amount of bass for my liking, which is slightly boosted.  for the money these are fantastic.  the case doesn't feel as cheap as i thought.  the buds look kinda goofy, as i got white.  they sound great and are ipx7 rated.  that for  $34 this weekend they were.,..back to $49 i believe....these have to be up there with the sub $70 TWS


I just saw this, you can ignore my previous post about tips, but I still love my jvc spiral dots.


----------



## d3myz

bronco1015 said:


> Don't worry, i'll be joining you with a bad review very soon. These were some of the worst i've heard. Actually they really are probably the worst i've heard in TWS.


Got mine yesterday, listened to them for under 5 min and boxed them back up. Total garbage tuning. It's too bad, i like the case and the design. I didn't have any connection issues.


----------



## d3myz

clerkpalmer said:


> So we have a review saying better bass than PB pro and a review saying worse.


And no one is talking about how archaic it is that they have a lightning charger as opposed to USB-C. I guess it's all part of the planned 1-year life cycle. Considering it's all but confirmed that 2020 Iphone will have USB-C.


----------



## n20nine

Ok so I got my AirPods pro first thing this morning. 

what I love about them:
- very small and light (both case and earbuds)
- comfortable to use and you don’t realise you have it on
- good battery life and very convenient to use especially with the iphone. Pairs super fast and rock solid connection
- ANC actually is good for earphones. 
- sound quality is good but probably not as detailed or wide as the Sennheiser momentum true wireless which I still have. 

what I don’t like about them:
- not a match for my Sennheiser MTW but only by a small margin

All in all, it’s a very good unit. Just that the senn’s outdo them marginally in terms of sound stage, details etc. Given the Sennheiser’s quirks I much rather keep the AirPods Pro.


----------



## clerkpalmer

n20nine said:


> Ok so I got my AirPods pro first thing this morning.
> 
> what I love about them:
> - very small and light (both case and earbuds)
> ...



Thanks for the impressions. I can live with that. I didn't love the MTW sound signature. A little to boomy for me, but I can appreciate that others do.


----------



## Pro-Jules

Bring on the hi res codecs. 

Apple & Bose such dinasaurs ...


----------



## d3myz

gibletzor said:


> The Earfun Free are great!  Excellent sound all around, great fit, Qi charging, USB-C, 6 hours on a charge.  This ticks every box for me except you can't use both sides independently and buttons instead of touch controls.  Not enough to hate them.  Would prefer it to have volume control too, but not a deal breaker.


HOLY CRAP! I didn't realize they have wireless charging. I just set them on my stand and Boom! Thank you, This makes them an even better deal. I found this company yesterday. m.me/Diwenhouse that's their FB messenger link. You can get the Earfun's for free after purchasing them on amazon and reviewing them.


----------



## karloil

Another one - https://www.razer.com/sg-en/gaming-audio/razer-hammerhead-true-wireless-earbuds


----------



## SilverEars

d3myz said:


> I do notice in the video he's using a large tip. my interest is peaked, but after getting bent over for my iphone xs max for $1400 last year, I just don't think i'm going to pay $250 for a set of TWS' that "sound better than the previous airpods"  Nobody so far has really said Wow, these things sound incredible. I'll reserve my judgement until I hear what the folks on here say about them. I would def. be interested in a quality ANC TWS' I currently don't own one.


Yeah, Apple does bend you over with their premium pricing.  I don't like their 'ecosystem' thing and closed nature of their software, although I like the material finshes and designs.  Wish they'd let iWhatches work with Android.  I prefer Android OS for phones.

$250 is a lot relative to the market, but also there are some features not on typical TW.  It's early and it's usually waise to be patient and wait it out until hype dies.

General question for all:  Is it possible to have different wireless streaming quality of AAC codec between iPhones and Android phones?


----------



## gibletzor

karloil said:


> Another one - https://www.razer.com/sg-en/gaming-audio/razer-hammerhead-true-wireless-earbuds



Only 3 hours on a charge though....


----------



## geoxile

karloil said:


> Another one - https://www.razer.com/sg-en/gaming-audio/razer-hammerhead-true-wireless-earbuds


10m range and 3 hour battery. And its Razer. The only advantage on paper seems to be the low latency.


----------



## rhsauer

So I picked up the AirPod Pros on the way to work this morning.  I echo the comments above about them being extremely comfortable and fitting very well.  My ears are usually difficult to fit, but with the large tips these are so comfortable that I find it easy to forget I’m wearing earphones.  

The ANC seems excellent so far.  I’ll wear them on the subway this afternoon and know for sure how good the ANC is — but walking around the office with ANC is a surreal experience.  The ANC is definitely closer in effectiveness to the Sony WF-1000XM3s than to the M&D MW07+.

The sound also seems very good.  They sound accurate and pleasant (no sibilance or harshness in the treble whatsoever), and the bass is present — although these are not bass monsters, like the Liberty 2 Pros, for example.  (I think the Liberty 2 Pros are more enjoyable to listen to, except in loud environments, like the subway, because they don’t isolate well and they obviously don’t have ANC.)

I’ve only taken one call with them, and (although it was a business call so I didn’t ask how I sounded) the person on the other end didn’t ask me to repeat myself — so that’s good.  I recorded a voice memo, and based on that recording the microphone seems terrific.

The case is really small.  I didn’t have the earlier iterations of the AirPods, so the case feels particularly small to me — small enough so that I can slip it into a pocket and (like the earphones, when I’m wearing them) forget I have it on me.

For the nerds among you (all of you?), I connected my iPhone to my Mac at work and used Console to check the connection speed of the AirPod Pros, and, as expected, they maintain a completely solid 256kbps connection.  (In contrast, the connection speed of the Sony WF-1000XM3s deteriorates quickly to 127kbps — on my iPhone 11 Pro, at least — although Sony support tells me they’re working on a firmware update that should address that issue — and the Liberty 2 Pros connection speed quickly drops to 192kbps and stays there.) 

Coincidentally (or not?), the Amazon Buds are arriving this afternoon.  I’ll compare them tonight.  I’ve promised myself that I’m not keeping all these earphones — but we’ll see .


----------



## Linus Jian

rhsauer said:


> So I picked up the AirPod Pros on the way to work this morning.  I echo the comments above about them being extremely comfortable and fitting very well.  My ears are usually difficult to fit, but with the large tips these are so comfortable that I find it easy to forget I’m wearing earphones.
> 
> The ANC seems excellent so far.  I’ll wear them on the subway this afternoon and know for sure how good the ANC is — but walking around the office with ANC is a surreal experience.  The ANC is definitely closer in effectiveness to the Sony WF-1000XM3s than to the M&D MW07+.
> 
> ...


Very detailed and helpful review. One question, how is the sq of the pro comparing to mw07+?


----------



## n20nine

Yes they seem to have got it right this time. Equally, the pressure vent seem to be helping for me. You don’t feel like you’re in a vacuum which you find with some ANC headphones/earphones. 



rhsauer said:


> So I picked up the AirPod Pros on the way to work this morning.  I echo the comments above about them being extremely comfortable and fitting very well.  My ears are usually difficult to fit, but with the large tips these are so comfortable that I find it easy to forget I’m wearing earphones.
> 
> The ANC seems excellent so far.  I’ll wear them on the subway this afternoon and know for sure how good the ANC is — but walking around the office with ANC is a surreal experience.  The ANC is definitely closer in effectiveness to the Sony WF-1000XM3s than to the M&D MW07+.
> 
> ...


----------



## webvan (Oct 30, 2019)

@n20nine - a runner even said that the vent removed the "thump" that you get with IEMs each time you hit the ground.

@rhsauer - Thanks for the feedback, sounds good, especially the ANC since you owned the WF-1000XM3 previously, I wouldn't have said that the ANC experience with them (or the Libratone Track AIR+) felt "surreal" at all, OK yes, QC-25, now we're talking 

In other news I received my 26.99£ MPOW T5 or should I say M5 since that's how they appear to be called now, not sure what the difference might be : https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B07WJRW2FB

Pretty happy with them, here are some comments :
- There is a slightly annoying noise floor, mostly in the right ear, it stays for 1/2 second after a tracks ends.
- The stock tips don't work for me at all, the SpinFit CP160 work ok, the Final E too, using these right now but the deeper fit is a bit less comfortable.
- Regardless of the tips they stick out a lot but unlike the Anbes 359 they reach the back of my ear so have something to rest against
- They sound really good, the whole range of frequencies is there with some good bass for a pleasing experience. The soundstage is good too, maybe not as wide as on the Anbes 359 but it was almost too wide on these creating some sort of "hole in the middle".
- No AAC but using @BigZ12 's test file I was able to hear the difference between SBC and AptX


----------



## jasaero

rcmo said:


> A quick (relative, dirty, etc.) comparison of my current tws with imm6. I like what I hear and what I see
> Forgot to include the Jabra. Now Jabra 65t, Airpods Pro, Shanling MTW100, MEE X10 and Sony XF1000M3.



That's interesting.  I guess I might like the Jabra also.  I like the Shanling, but not guessing I would like the others with the recessed mids as much.


----------



## rhsauer

Linus Jian said:


> Very detailed and helpful review. One question, how is the sq of the pro comparing to mw07+?



It’s hard for me to compare sound quality meaningfully because (i) the AirPod Pros fit my ears better, and fit is so important to how the sound quality is perceived, (ii) the MW07+s don’t have AAC, so I had the feeling I wasn’t experiencing all they had to offer, and (iii) I’ve returned the MW07+, so I can’t A/B them.  (When they fix the AAC issue on the MW07+, I’ll reconsider buying them — but the field is starting to get crowded.)


----------



## rhsauer

webvan said:


> @n20nine - a runner even said that the vent removed the "thump" that you get with IEMs each time you hit the ground.
> 
> @rhsauer - Thanks for the feedback, sounds good, especially the ANC since you owned the WF-1000XM3 previously, I wouldn't have said that the ANC experience with them (or the Libratone Track AIR+) felt "surreal" at all, OK yes, QC-25, now we're talking
> 
> ...



Are you sure there’s no AAC on the MPOW M5s?  I’m pretty sure my MPOW T5s have AAC.


----------



## hifi80sman

clerkpalmer said:


> Thanks for the impressions. I can live with that. I didn't love the MTW sound signature. A little to boomy for me, but I can appreciate that others do.


I feel the same way.  I've never fallen in love with the MTW.


----------



## mattedialdoc

n20nine said:


> Ok so I got my AirPods pro first thing this morning.
> 
> what I love about them:
> - very small and light (both case and earbuds)
> ...



Awesome. Sounds like the ones to beat.

Do Airpods ever get a discount for Black Friday? Wondering if I should pull the trigger or wait a few weeks?


----------



## AtariPrime

hifi80sman said:


> I hate myself.



As you should...don't be a sheep sir, be a wolf.  You know they will suck (at least for the price).


----------



## webvan

rhsauer said:


> Are you sure there’s no AAC on the MPOW M5s?  I’m pretty sure my MPOW T5s have AAC.



Yep certain, the AAC setting does not "stick" when I select it in the Android 9 Developer Options. That's really the only way to be certain a codec is enabled or not, at least on Android.


----------



## d3myz

hifi80sman said:


> Why not trade in the Note 10, get the iPhone, then pick up an LG V30 or V35 for a couple of Benjamins (aptX, aptX HD, LDAC).  It will also have the Hi-Fi Quad DAC if you ever want to go wired.
> 
> Shoot, LG V30 (renewed) is dirt cheap.
> https://www.amazon.com/LG-V30-H932-Certified-Refurbished/dp/B07DL11YRX/





bronco1015 said:


> just wanted to 2nd this as well, as this feature is available on both my LG V40, and Xiaomi mi mix 2S, both of which have the snapdragon 845, and are running builds of android 9. Both support APTX, APTX-HD, LDAC, AAC AND SBC. Also; FWIW, the mi mix does really steller with devices that are SBC and or AAC only. my QC35's sound so much better on that phone than they do with the V40, or did with the V20 or V30.




Dang, that's a great deal. How does the BT sound on it? @bronco1015  says the Xiaomi Mi Mix 2 sounded really good via BT, but Redditors mentioned the DAC in didn't push wired devices very well. Bronco, have you tried any other BTs with the MI Mix 2?


----------



## webvan

Bhelpoori said:


> 30th October is also when the Amazon Echo buds come out, also with ANC... The reviews are mixed:
> CNet: https://www.cnet.com/reviews/amazon-echo-buds-review/
> PCMag: https://www.pcmag.com/review/371519/amazon-echo-buds
> 
> Would be really pleased if someone who gets them today can comment on how good they really are...



From PC Mag : "The active noise reduction on the Echo Buds indeed reduces noise, but doesn't produce silence. The Echo Buds won't quiet make office chatter sound like a distant whisper, but they reduce it quite a bit, as well as the loud rumble of trains and other vehicles. In testing, I found it to be about on par with Sony's $230 WF-1000XM3 earphones, which is impressive. This is partly due to the excellent, secure fit of the Echo Buds; Sony's ANC circuitry might be capable, but I couldn't get the fin-free WF-1000XM3 earpieces to fit securely enough to ensure consistent noise isolation."

Interesting, I don't understand why more manufacturers don't offer "fins", they do wonders for stability !


----------



## rhsauer

mattedialdoc said:


> Awesome. Sounds like the ones to beat.
> 
> Do Airpods ever get a discount for Black Friday? Wondering if I should pull the trigger or wait a few weeks?



I agree — the AirPod Pros are the ones to beat.  They tick all the boxes except, perhaps, battery life.  Ideally, they’d last 9 hours like the PBPs.  The solution, I guess, is just to buy two pairs of AirPods .  (Don’t tempt me!)


----------



## mattedialdoc

rhsauer said:


> I agree — the AirPod Pros are the ones to beat.  They tick all the boxes except, perhaps, battery life.  Ideally, they’d last 9 hours like the PBPs.  The solution, I guess, is just to buy two pairs of AirPods .  (Don’t tempt me!)



I’m also VERY curious how the ANC on the AirPod Pro compares to that of the new Google Buds.


----------



## hifi80sman (Oct 30, 2019)

d3myz said:


> Dang, that's a great deal. How does the BT sound on it? @bronco1015  says the Xiaomi Mi Mix 2 sounded really good via BT, but Redditors mentioned the DAC in didn't push wired devices very well. Bronco, have you tried any other BTs with the MI Mix 2?


I have the LG G6 Quad DAC International version, which is obviously a lesser device, and it's great.  I purely use it for music when I need aptX HD or I go wired.  Samsung is nice, but they build in some price premiums and they lack aptX HD in favor of their proprietary codec (which nobody will ever use).  Both Samsung and LG sound the same to me over BT (assuming the codec is the same).


----------



## d3myz

rhsauer said:


> So I picked up the AirPod Pros on the way to work this morning.  I echo the comments above about them being extremely comfortable and fitting very well.  My ears are usually difficult to fit, but with the large tips these are so comfortable that I find it easy to forget I’m wearing earphones.
> 
> The ANC seems excellent so far.  I’ll wear them on the subway this afternoon and know for sure how good the ANC is — but walking around the office with ANC is a surreal experience.  The ANC is definitely closer in effectiveness to the Sony WF-1000XM3s than to the M&D MW07+.
> 
> ...


Excellent Feedback, Thank you!


----------



## AtariPrime

rhsauer said:


> I agree — the AirPod Pros are the ones to beat.  They tick all the boxes except, perhaps, battery life.  Ideally, they’d last 9 hours like the PBPs.  The solution, I guess, is just to buy two pairs of AirPods .  (Don’t tempt me!)



What boxes do they tick exactly?  The sound quality is subpar to middling at best.  The battery life is subpar.  The design is much larger than many competitors on the market.  And the price is double options that are better.  So, I am failing to see what boxes they are ticking.  A decent microphone maybe? Slightly easier pairing to device?  Seems like a steep price to pay for such little benefit.


----------



## Matez

AtariPrime said:


> So, I am failing to see what boxes they are ticking.



The Apple logo. Sorry, I couldn't resist.


----------



## Minarets

rhsauer said:


> I agree — the AirPod Pros are the ones to beat.  They tick all the boxes except, perhaps, battery life.  Ideally, they’d last 9 hours like the PBPs.  The solution, I guess, is just to buy two pairs of AirPods .  (Don’t tempt me!)



the battery doesn’t even bother me as 5 min charge gets you another 1 hr of listening.  Besides flying, i can’t think of when I needed headphones for 5hrs straight with no breaks.  With as much charge as you get quickly, this is a moot point for me.


----------



## Minarets

Mine deliver today and I have no one to sign for them!
First world problems, i know.


----------



## sithjedi333

Quick impressions of the Airpods Pro.


I'm coming from the BeatsX, which I like, but the sound quality is mediocre. I have had other wired IEMs by Dunu, and CIEMs. The Pros are definitely better than the BeatsX, with good bass and a decent amount of detail. Not as good as the IEMs I'm used to, but good enough for out and about use.


These are a keeper.


----------



## rhsauer

AtariPrime said:


> What boxes do they tick exactly?  The sound quality is subpar to middling at best.  The battery life is subpar.  The design is much larger than many competitors on the market.  And the price is double options that are better.  So, I am failing to see what boxes they are ticking.  A decent microphone maybe? Slightly easier pairing to device?  Seems like a steep price to pay for such little benefit.




I find the sound quality quite good.  (Perhaps not as good as the M&Ds or the Liberty 2 Pros, but I’m still acclimating to the AirPods.) 
The design is a matter of taste.  (I hated the original AirPods when I first saw them, but they have become so ubiquitous that others don’t seem to mind — and these are smaller and less obtrusive than the OG AirPods.) 
They are exceedingly comfortable.  (They just disappear, once you put them on, and I can get a good seal — unlike with the PBPs.)  
The mic quality is superb — better than “decent.” (This is important to me, since I’ve been looking for TWEs that I can actually use for work calls.)
The ANC is surprisingly good. (There aren’t a lot of options for ANC earphones — and ANC really makes a difference for my use cases.)  
The H1 chip provides lots of convenience when changing devices. (I often go from my iPhone to a Mac to an iPad, and back — so easy switching is a real bonus for me.)
The connection is rock solid, and the connection speed is as good as it gets.  (See my posts above re relative connection speeds.)  
All in, I think the sum of the parts make these compelling, but tastes may reasonably differ.  For example, for someone not invested in the Apple ecosystem, some of these advantages will be lost.  Sound quality and design are, of course, subjective, as is fit.  Perhaps I should have said “They tick all _MY_ boxes.”  The price is high, no doubt about it.  But compared to the Sonys (at $230) or the M&Ds (at $300), these don’t feel overpriced for what they offer.  As they say, YMMV.


----------



## mattedialdoc

AtariPrime said:


> What boxes do they tick exactly?  The sound quality is subpar to middling at best.  The battery life is subpar.  The design is much larger than many competitors on the market.  And the price is double options that are better.  So, I am failing to see what boxes they are ticking.  A decent microphone maybe? Slightly easier pairing to device?  Seems like a steep price to pay for such little benefit.



Ok buddy.


----------



## rcmo

The AP pro do an amazing job sound and isolation wise. While they might not isolate as well as the Sony wf1000m3 with the right tips and hence might seem less effective with ANC, I don't get the infamous walking thump that I loathe. Relax the fit with the Sony and then not only ANC but also SQ suffers.
I've been listening to the AP pro, Sony wf1000m3, Jabra 65t and MEE x10 all day and sound wise I am more than happy with the AP pro. The bass is all there, vocals are really smooth and absolutely no harsh treble. Actually, I'd say highs might be a bit rolled off.


----------



## XGUGU

Can't avoiding recommening this now for US$53 after applying cupon.


----------



## hifi80sman

Minarets said:


> the battery doesn’t even bother me as 5 min charge gets you another 1 hr of listening.  Besides flying, i can’t think of when I needed headphones for 5hrs straight with no breaks.  With as much charge as you get quickly, this is a moot point for me.


I agree with this sentiment.  Double digit battery life is good for marketing, but if I can at least get 3.5 to 4 hours, I'm fine.  I rotate TWS' throughout the day and may spend the first half with this one, then the second half with that one, etc.

To each their own, but I suspect most people are good with 4+ hours for their uses and Apple has the market research to back that up (and sell millions of this things).  That being said, I'm certainly not a fanboy of any kind and have stuff from Sony to Bose to Apple and from Android to iOS.


----------



## XGUGU

hifi80sman said:


> I agree with this sentiment.  Double digit battery life is good for marketing, but if I can at least get 3.5 to 4 hours, I'm fine.  I rotate TWS' throughout the day and may spend the first half with this one, then the second half with that one, etc.
> 
> To each their own, but I suspect most people are good with 4+ hours for their uses and Apple has the market research to back that up (and sell millions of this things).  That being said, I'm certainly not a fanboy of any kind and have stuff from Sony to Bose to Apple and from Android to iOS.


I wouldn't support going with that battery life. Same reason I returned my Momentums in less than a weak. It's pretty much a manipulation where they hold specs to sell you a little upgrade in next release.  When a $25 pair from who knows who can outdo worlds richest companies with such essential stuff, there its a sign that we are just an experiment.  In fact, they pioneered the jack removal to sell a battery powered solution that cant  last above 5 hours.


----------



## d3myz

XGUGU said:


> Can't avoiding recommening this now for US$53 after applying cupon.


I think I may have missed it, but how is the sound quality? what does it compare to?


----------



## d3myz

XGUGU said:


> I wouldn't support going with that battery life. Same reason I returned my Momentums in less than a weak. It's pretty much a manipulation where they hold specs to sell you a little upgrade in next release.  When a $25 pair from who knows who can outdo worlds richest companies with such essential stuff, there its a sign that we are just an experiment.  In fact, they pioneered the jack removal to sell a battery powered solution that cant  last above 5 hours.


I mirror your sentiments. Apple fully could of included a USB-C charging port on these, but chose to stick with lighting port to save money and force people next year to buy the new version to pair with the 2020 Iphone w/ USB-C is a clear indicator of how stupid they believe their customers are.


----------



## go0gle

rhsauer said:


> The sound also seems very good.  They sound accurate and pleasant (no sibilance or harshness in the treble whatsoever), and the bass is present — although these are not bass monsters, like the Liberty 2 Pros, for example.  (I think the Liberty 2 Pros are more enjoyable to listen to, except in loud environments, like the subway, because they don’t isolate well and they obviously don’t have ANC.)



It was hard for me to imagine them sounding better than the liberty pro 2 but perhaps having both for different purposes wouldnbe nice. I am sure phone calls on the apple product is far better as well


----------



## AtariPrime

rhsauer said:


> I find the sound quality quite good.  (Perhaps not as good as the M&Ds or the Liberty 2 Pros, but I’m still acclimating to the AirPods.)
> The design is a matter of taste.  (I hated the original AirPods when I first saw them, but they have become so ubiquitous that others don’t seem to mind — and these are smaller and less obtrusive than the OG AirPods.)
> They are exceedingly comfortable.  (They just disappear, once you put them on, and I can get a good seal — unlike with the PBPs.)
> The mic quality is superb — better than “decent.” (This is important to me, since I’ve been looking for TWEs that I can actually use for work calls.)
> ...



I like some iPhones and that is what I use, but have always been disappointed in the design and sound quality of AirPods.  Give the Sony 1000XM3 a try if ANC is important or even the LibraTone Track Air+, I doubt either will disappoint.


----------



## msooffutt (Oct 30, 2019)

Just got my airpod pros about 5 hours ago.  I basically agree with the other apple sheep (jk) on here.  They aren't too bad as far as sound, I don't think they are as good as the mw07 (first version) and sony wf-1000xm3, but much better than the jabra Elite Active 65t.  And I do think that sony has better ANC. The airpod pros are ok, but the sony's win this one.  Where these shine and why I might keep them are because of how well they work seamlessly with my iphone and mac.  If you've never owned the original airpods and used them with other apple products, I don't think you can truly appreciate how nice this is.  Non of the other ones I've owned have been able to answer calls and/or reconnected as efficiently or as accurately as the original or new airpods can.  I'm not sure if this matters if you have an android.  The other great thing with these is transparency.  Most might not care about this, but for my use case, it's more important than ANC. While mostly on par with sony, the thing I like with transparency on these is now I can hear my voice which is something I've never liked with other true wireless.  It basically feels like I have the old airpods or the sabbats in my ears.  I used to hate talking on the phone with any of the others, because I felt like I had to yell for people to hear me.  One last thing I should mention and I hope that this isn't a potential issue down the road, is the way they designed the ear tips.  I worry that they may wear out too quickly.  It only happened once, and it may have been my fault, but I already had a ear tip stay in my ear as I took out the bud.  I'll see how it goes, but if this looks like it might be an issue they are going back.

I forgot to add that wireless charging works pretty good.  I tried it on a cheap Seneo and a mophie.


----------



## hifi80sman

msooffutt said:


> Just got my airpod pros about 5 hours ago.  I basically agree with the other apple sheep (jk) on here.  They aren't too bad as far as sound, I don't think they are as good as the mw07 (first version) and sony wf-1000xm3, but much better than the jabra Elite Active 65t.  And I do think that sony has better ANC. The airpod pros are ok, but the sony's win this one.  Where these shine and why I might keep them are because of how well they work seamlessly with my iphone and mac.  If you've never owned the original airpods and used them with other apple products, I don't think you can truly appreciate how nice this is.  Non of the other ones I've owned have been able to answer calls and/or reconnected as efficiently or as accurately as the original or new airpods can.  I'm not sure if this matters if you have an android.  The other great thing with these is transparency.  Most might not care about this, but for my use case, it's more important than ANC. While mostly on par with sony, the thing I like with transparency on these is now I can hear my voice which is something I've never liked with other true wireless.  It basically feels like I have the old airpods or the sabbats in my ears.  I used to hate talking on the phone with any of the others, because I felt like I had to yell for people to hear me.  One last thing I should mention and I hope that this isn't a potential issue down the road, is the way they designed the ear tips.  I worry that they may wear out too quickly.  It only happened once, and it may have been my fault, but I already had a ear tip stay in my ear as I took out the bud.  I'll see how it goes, but if this looks like it might be an issue they are going back.
> 
> I forgot to add that wireless charging works pretty good.  I tried it on a cheap Seneo and a mophie.


Shockingly, per CNET, they sell replacement tips at the Apple store for...wait for it...$3.95!

I was expecting Apple gouge for a pair, like say $9.99 or $14.99.


----------



## d3myz

$4.00 for one pair of silicone tips? To me that is a price gouge. That's about the same price as a pair of spiral dots shipped from Japan.


----------



## msooffutt

hifi80sman said:


> Shockingly, per CNET, they sell replacement tips at the Apple store for...wait for it...$3.95!
> 
> I was expecting Apple gouge for a pair, like say $9.99 or $14.99.



One thing to add, I had in the large tip which I think might be a little too large   for my ears.  At the time that this happened I was tilting it up, so as not to turn the tip inside out (like the spinfits will do sometimes) as I pulled it out and that may have been part of the problem.  Hasn’t happened after using the medium tip, so I hope it’s a nonissue.


----------



## Minarets

hifi80sman said:


> Shockingly, per CNET, they sell replacement tips at the Apple store for...wait for it...$3.95!
> 
> I was expecting Apple gouge for a pair, like say $9.99 or $14.99.



that is certainly unexpected. i too, thought they'd be $15.  $4 is totally reasonable even thou its 1000% markup

mine just arrived.  time to give them a go!


----------



## Minarets

whoa! these just may be the ones!  the ANC and transparency modes are fantastic.  considerably smaller than the OG airpods.  the ANC is really good.  like, way better than i had imagined for something this small.  i turned on my amazon echo and had it up way louder than i would like to listen to it at my desk and put them in and could barely tell it was on.  transparency mode let it in real quick but ANC was great. 

plenty of bass (perfect amount for me) and mids are pretty good. i like treble and there is enough here.

these are going to be one of those kinds that every other set out there does 1 thing better...better ANC thru the Sonys, or more bass in the MW07, or smaller and better fit in the mifi 05 or volume controls on the ______ so and so on.....

but few will be able to match the complete package.  if you want the best in your requested specific desires, look elsewhere.  if you want the best, convenient, best all rounder....these are it until further notice, imo.


----------



## hifi80sman

d3myz said:


> $4.00 for one pair of silicone tips? To me that is a price gouge. That's about the same price as a pair of spiral dots shipped from Japan.


In a vacuum, yes, that's a rip, for Apple, that's like WalMart Clearance Price!


----------



## hifi80sman

Minarets said:


> whoa! these just may be the ones!  the ANC and transparency modes are fantastic.  considerably smaller than the OG airpods.  the ANC is really good.  like, way better than i had imagined for something this small.  i turned on my amazon echo and had it up way louder than i would like to listen to it at my desk and put them in and could barely tell it was on.  transparency mode let it in real quick but ANC was great.
> 
> plenty of bass (perfect amount for me) and mids are pretty good. i like treble and there is enough here.
> 
> ...


Did you order from Amazon?  Mine still has not shipped...


----------



## Minarets

hifi80sman said:


> Did you order from Amazon?  Mine still has not shipped...


No, i ordered from apple on release day.  showed a 10/31 delivery date, but got lucky for a day early.


----------



## msooffutt

Minarets said:


> No, i ordered from apple on release day.  showed a 10/31 delivery date, but got lucky for a day early.


Same here and Apple shipped it next day air.


----------



## stacey

clerkpalmer said:


> CNET also saying the sony sound better.  That's disappointing.  I guess you trade sweat proofing for a little sq. I was not wowed by the sony but I was having fit issues and gave up on them quickly.



In this class, especially with Bluetooth, sound quality is going to take a hit. Compared to my iSine 20, both sound worse, but also it costs 2-3x the price. And the Layla I’m considering costs 10x this (JH does have a BT option though.)


----------



## mattedialdoc

Minarets said:


> whoa! these just may be the ones!  the ANC and transparency modes are fantastic.  considerably smaller than the OG airpods.  the ANC is really good.  like, way better than i had imagined for something this small.  i turned on my amazon echo and had it up way louder than i would like to listen to it at my desk and put them in and could barely tell it was on.  transparency mode let it in real quick but ANC was great.
> 
> plenty of bass (perfect amount for me) and mids are pretty good. i like treble and there is enough here.
> 
> ...



So am I correct in reading that you have compared the amazon Echo versus the AirPod Pro, and the Pro are the clear winner?


----------



## Minarets

mattedialdoc said:


> So am I correct in reading that you have compared the amazon Echo versus the AirPod Pro, and the Pro are the clear winner?


 i have not compared them to the amazon echo.  i tested the ANC in the Airpods Pro vs the echo turned up, really loud in front of me.  the ANC worked really well with music coming from the echo as background noise.


----------



## rage3324

I will be picking up the Airpod Pros tomorrow. I also have an order in for MW07+ but I might have to cancel if the Airpods impress me enough


----------



## clerkpalmer

rage3324 said:


> I will be picking up the Airpod Pros tomorrow. I also have an order in for MW07+ but I might have to cancel if the Airpods impress me enough



I would try them both. The airpods are a nice product. The ANC is the standout feature. It's amazing. Sound quality is not doing it for me.  They sound very thin.  It's not a lack of bass per se but it's just not full and rich. Basically if you have heard airpods that's how they sound but with a seal.  They aren't bad but I'm not buying that they sound better than the pb pro and certainly not the mw07. more listening to be done however.


----------



## msooffutt

clerkpalmer said:


> I would try them both. The airpods are a nice product. The ANC is the standout feature. It's amazing. Sound quality is not doing it for me.  They sound very thin.  It's not a lack of bass per se but it's just not full and rich. Basically if you have heard airpods that's how they sound but with a seal.  They aren't bad but I'm not buying that they sound better than the pb pro and certainly not the mw07. more listening to be done however.


I think your description is pretty dead on for the way they sound.  I wasn’t able to describe that myself, because I’m a little inexperienced with reviewing headphones, but you summed it up nicely.  Some tracks sound better than others, but basically you’re right.  I think as a total package they are very nice though.


----------



## Minarets

Hmm, thin?   Note sure I’m getting thin.  OG AirPods with more bass which i find more sufficient for casual listening. Not an audiophile type device but it isn’t intended to be.  Keep your open cans.  
I will neee to listen more as well as I only spot checked about 7 or 8 songs but was more than satisfied with their sound.


----------



## stacey

I was hoping that Apple did something similar to the old ADDIEM. Those were good. Anyone know how the Pro compares to the Bose QC20?


----------



## XGUGU (Oct 30, 2019)

d3myz said:


> I think I may have missed it, but how is the sound quality? what does it compare to?


 They are a rebrand from a indiegogo startup called Mezone B6. Weirdly, on the open market they first appeared as Whizzer B6, then as Hieha B6 and recently as again Mezone B6.
These things romove the world from you once you fit them in.  Punchy Bass, very rich on the whole 50-200Hz region with a slight depth in 400-600ish perhaps to avoid bleed/coloration.

Mid-range is a bit flat with more emphasis on high-mids, famale voice area. Mids blend smoothly into treble. High treble disappears  around 10kHz.  (I blame the double plastic mesh filter which I replaced for a more open metal grill. That changed signature to a brighter sound and more comparable to the Sennns..   Bass lost a few db but became faster, no longer ipx7 due to the mod)   Anyways, the Bass impressed me more than Momentums, but soundstage was wider on the Sennheiser and more resolving. I was a triple Hybrid bearer,  Dunu dn2000, T-peos H300, Altones 250, RHA T20 dual coil etc... those I could really tell what bright and revealing sound was.  Also Fiio FH1  connected to Mee audio BTX2 Bluetooh mmcx cable which  blows both mentioned tws out of the water.  but hated mmcx and the 2 battery modules hanging around my neck. However its the big list of features, very resolving bass, design, extremme isolation, battery, wireless, touch that make these great buds.
 found a vid.


----------



## rage3324

clerkpalmer said:


> I would try them both. The airpods are a nice product. The ANC is the standout feature. It's amazing. Sound quality is not doing it for me.  They sound very thin.  It's not a lack of bass per se but it's just not full and rich. Basically if you have heard airpods that's how they sound but with a seal.  They aren't bad but I'm not buying that they sound better than the pb pro and certainly not the mw07. more listening to be done however.



I expect some surprise and disappointment as far as sound quality goes, however, it is the ease of use and integration that will win me over. I have Sony WH-1000XM2 for plane rides so the Airpods will be for on the move music listening, phone calls, etc. I also constantly switch between devices which makes other brands including the Sony's a pain to use at times. If I did not own the Sony's, I would likely go with the MW07 in a heartbeat for all around use. Critical listening happens at home anyways.


----------



## tinyman392

clerkpalmer said:


> I would try them both. The airpods are a nice product. The ANC is the standout feature. It's amazing. Sound quality is not doing it for me.  They sound very thin.  It's not a lack of bass per se but it's just not full and rich. Basically if you have heard airpods that's how they sound but with a seal.  They aren't bad but I'm not buying that they sound better than the pb pro and certainly not the mw07. more listening to be done however.


Swap your tips and tip roll. Apple’s seal test, although a good idea, doesn’t work all too well (it gives false positives). I originally thought small would be the adequate size for me (it is with the majority of other headphones using the sensaphonics seal test). Though the bass didn’t dig deep enough, nope, needed medium tips. Added bass, air, and a bit of sound stage.


----------



## Minarets (Oct 30, 2019)

tinyman392 said:


> Swap your tips and tip roll. Apple’s seal test, although a good idea, doesn’t work all too well (it gives false positives). I originally thought small would be the adequate size for me (it is with the majority of other headphones using the sensaphonics seal test). Though the bass didn’t dig deep enough, nope, needed medium tips. Added bass, air, and a bit of sound stage.


i agree with this. the mid size out of the box showed a good seal but i could tell one ear wasn't sealed all the way.  i think its just checking for leaks with the outside mic....

i have the large ones on now, but may try the mids again.
honestly, my biggest gripe with these things are how hard they are to get out of the case.  while not hard, i certainly don't get both on the first attempt like the OGs very often.  i usually drop one in the case and have to re-pull


----------



## willryan042

So far I'm pretty impressed with the new AirPods, only one complaint after day one.

On the bus I noticed an almost clipping/distorted sound when we’d hit a bigger bump (maybe 2-3 times per minute). I also noticed it when getting hit with REALLY strong wind gusts on my walk home. I’ve had the same thing on flights when the plane takes off when wearing my Sony XM3 cans. I’m assuming loud noises overload the mics used for NC or something.

Curious if anyone else in noisy situations notices anything similar.


----------



## SilverEars (Oct 30, 2019)

willryan042 said:


> So far I'm pretty impressed with the new AirPods, only one complaint after day one.
> 
> On the bus I noticed an almost clipping/distorted sound when we’d hit a bigger bump (maybe 2-3 times per minute). I also noticed it when getting hit with REALLY strong wind gusts on my walk home. I’ve had the same thing on flights when the plane takes off when wearing my Sony XM3 cans. I’m assuming loud noises overload the mics used for NC or something.
> 
> Curious if anyone else in noisy situations notices anything similar.


I notice it with generally ANC headphones if the seal gets broken.  I've heard that the Airpods are not pressurized when it comes to ANC.

For example, with the XM3 full sized when I'm walking and a sudden movement breaks the seal, the breaking of seal (with ANC active) creates a weird sound from the headphones.


----------



## Minarets

i am also really impressed with the lack of volume change between ANC, off, transparency modes.  i feel like everything else i have used had changed the volume to account for white noise or however it works.


but alas, i really like my Earfun Free's too and will hold on to them.  who knows, maybe ill swim in them.  they have a great fun sound.


----------



## XGUGU

Another Airpods Pro review from


----------



## clerkpalmer (Oct 30, 2019)

tinyman392 said:


> Swap your tips and tip roll. Apple’s seal test, although a good idea, doesn’t work all too well (it gives false positives). I originally thought small would be the adequate size for me (it is with the majority of other headphones using the sensaphonics seal test). Though the bass didn’t dig deep enough, nope, needed medium tips. Added bass, air, and a bit of sound stage.



A little more listening and I am more satisfied than initially. Coming from the mw07 and liberty 2 pro, the apple lacks the warmth they both deliver. I also switched to prime hd rather than apple music which is a placebo maybe but seemed to improve things.  I am content with the sound as part of the overall package but not blown away. 

Apple deserves credit for the fit and function. They are super light and basically disappear in your ears. They are easy to get a good seal. As mentioned, the ANC is very good. It blocked almost 100 percent of the cardio fans in front of me making them very useful for the gym. Finally, gotta give apple credit for a flawless launch. Nobody does a release better than apple. Announced monday and shipped to my door in under 48 hours. Well done.


----------



## gibletzor

Anyone else think the Echo Buds look super similar to the Galaxy Buds?  Even the eartips are almost exactly the same.


----------



## rhsauer

Well, I got home tonight and the Amazon Echo Buds were waiting for me, so I spent some time listening to them at home (and while I walked the dog) to get a sense of how they compare to the AirPod Pros.  It's too late to write a detailed comparison, but here are a few quick observations:


The Amazon Buds insert much more deeply into the ear canal than the AirPod's, resulting in much better passive isolation -- so even though their "Bose Noise Reduction" isn't as strong as the AirPod's ANC, the net result seems about the same.  I'll know better after my subway ride in the morning.  The downside of their deep insertion is less comfort.  The AirPods are so comfortable you can forget you're wearing them, but the Amazon Buds, while not uncomfortable, don't exactly disappear in the same way.

The Amazon Buds' sound signature is much brighter than the AirPods'-- but the Alexa app includes an equalizer, so you can pretty much tune the Buds as you like.  They apparently have two balanced armature drivers, and they sound very good.  I took a look at the connection speed in Console, and they connect at 256kbps, then drop to 244kbps and stay there -- which is not bad at all, and suggests a good, fast bluetooth connection.  (The AirPods have a rock solid 256kbps connection.). I need to listen to both the Amazon and Apple earphones a bit more to compare the sound in more detail.

It took me quite a while to find tips for the Amazon Buds that fit my ears and still allow the case to close properly (and charge the earphones).  The tips that came with the Amazon Buds were all too small for my ears. Most larger tips didn't fit in the Amazon Buds' case.  I ended up using the large tips from the Jabra 65t's, and with those tips the earphones sealed, and the bass opened up nicely.

Alexa works really well, and the microphones seem great, so I'm expecting that calls will be very clear on the other side.  (I'm glad that there are a number of TWEs that are good for calls on the market now.)

Finally, the Amazon Buds support fast bluetooth switching, so (like the AirPods) if you're paired with several devices, you can connect to one device without first disconnecting from another device you may be connected to (i.e., the disconnection from the first device happens automatically when you connect to the second device).  That's the way it works on all Apple devices with an H1 chip, and the Sonys and the Galaxy Buds also have fast switching -- but not a lot of other earphones have it, so it was nice to see Amazon thought of it here. 

The Amazon Buds are, of course, about 50% of the cost of the AirPods.  On that basis, they're a much better value.


----------



## stacey

clerkpalmer said:


> Finally, gotta give apple credit for a flawless launch. Nobody does a release better than apple. Announced monday and shipped to my door in under 48 hours. Well done.



IDK, when the AirPods were new to the market, people were waiting in line for months on end for their AirPods. just putting that out there.


----------



## Caipirina

All this talk about the AirPod Pros leaves me salivating (and devising schemes on how to get them here quick without paying the 150% import tax markup) ... 

But like Stacey I would like to know how the ANC compares to the Bose QC20


----------



## sly_in_the_sky

Hello,

I have been searching for this info but I don't know if the Noble Falcon TWS have been referenced here.

https://twitter.com/i/moments/1182133806477656064


----------



## typhoon838

Hi guys!

So I've been out of the loop for a little while as far as the newest updates in TWS (and more specifically budget options). 

I've had the Anbes 359 (seems like I got one of the last pairs) since earlier this year and LOVE them. They are such a versatile, great sounding pair and I'm completely satisfied with them. However, one of the little rubber pads fell off, and while I managed to glue it back on, it made me think that it might be time to get something new. 

I like the sound signature of the anbes, but wouldn't mind more sub bass. I understand that it'll be hard to accommodate that while maintaining the excellent clarity and soundstage that the anbes had. 

Before I fell off the face of the earth, the Kissral R18 was supposedly the same as the Anbes 359, but rebranded. Is this still the case, for the Kissral r18s being sold on amazon?

The other ones I was looking into were the Tranya T3s (I heard they have excellent bass and comparable sound quality to the anbes), or the Tranya B530, which were being sent to people for testing last time I checked. Any update on those? I think I remember the MPOW T5s being highly recommended as well. Also, I know this is a longshot, but ambient mode would be amazing, I just haven't seen any offerings that aren't super expensive, that sound like what I want. 

What do you guys think, and are there any contenders that I'm missing?


----------



## webvan

rhsauer said:


> Well, I got home tonight and the Amazon Echo Buds were waiting for me, so I spent some time listening to them at home (and while I walked the dog) to get a sense of how they compare to the AirPod Pros.  It's too late to write a detailed comparison, but here are a few quick observations:
> 
> 
> The Amazon Buds insert much more deeply into the ear canal than the AirPod's, resulting in much better passive isolation -- so even though their "Bose Noise Reduction" isn't as strong as the AirPod's ANC, the net result seems about the same.  I'll know better after my subway ride in the morning.  The downside of their deep insertion is less comfort.  The AirPods are so comfortable you can forget you're wearing them, but the Amazon Buds, while not uncomfortable, don't exactly disappear in the same way.
> ...



Thanks for sharing your observations in detail. Good point on the net result of passive+ANC based on the setup. Generally speaking great passive isolation is going to require deep insertion and while it works for some (including myself) it gets tiring after a while. It seems the Airpod Pros are like the Libratone Track Air+ *, a seal with a shallow wear. The QC20 take that even further with no seal and great comfort. It makes it hard to compare the respective ANCs. 
To test ANC at home I've found I could blast some "cabin noise" videos found on YouTube 

* Interestingly Libratone said they planned to add a "fit test" to their app when they launched the Air+, it hasn't happened so far and generally speaking Libratone have done a terrible job at marketing their products with very little info on their site, very few reviews and very limited availability.


----------



## msooffutt

Minarets said:


> i agree with this. the mid size out of the box showed a good seal but i could tell one ear wasn't sealed all the way.  i think its just checking for leaks with the outside mic....
> 
> i have the large ones on now, but may try the mids again.
> honestly, my biggest gripe with these things are how hard they are to get out of the case.  while not hard, i certainly don't get both on the first attempt like the OGs very often.  i usually drop one in the case and have to re-pull


An easy way to get them out of the case is to take your finger and place on top and pull towards you and they will pop right out.


----------



## Caipirina

webvan said:


> @n20nine - a runner even said that the vent removed the "thump" that you get with IEMs each time you hit the ground.



Now, THAT's a selling point for me! 

Not sure though if my sweat output in these humid climates I run in still falls under the IPX4 category ...


----------



## legitimmy

d3myz said:


> Been listening to the MPOW T20 today. So far it sounds quite good, nothing spectacular, but I need to give it a day or two. I saw TOOL last night and while I did use my Ear plugs most of the time, I left them out long enough to know my hearing is going to take a day or two to recover.  That show was beyond Loud!



Any updates and further impressions on the earphones? there's no reviews of them online.... with all the good impression from the Mpow T5 that Ive read im really considering this one.


----------



## msooffutt

Looks like the AirPods pro got a firmware update.  Latest version should be 2B584.  I think the new firmware fixed the controls.  I didn’t think to mention my displeasure with the controls, but they are more responsive now. 

 On day two with these things and they are awesome!  Like I said, the sound isn’t up to the level of the Sony’s or the M&D, but they work so flawlessly and effortlessly that I doubt I’ll look at any other true wireless until the batteries die in these.  One last thing to mention is that the comfort of these are fantastic.  Barely know they are there.


----------



## webvan (Oct 31, 2019)

@Caipirina - runners unite  I'll give that claim a try later tomorrow

@legitimmy Haven't tried the T20 but I hope they don't have the "noise floor" in the right ear like my T5/M5 do !

In other news I have received the *AirPod Pros* and they're pretty amazing. Fit, comfort, size, mics, controls (zero problems here with the stem control), weight, ANC (tested with a "cabin noise" video played at full volume on my speakers) is excellent (close to the QC25 in that test and while I no longer have the QC20, going by memory they were notably inferior to the QC25 in that test). One slight niggle is that in Android you can't toggle between Ambient/Off/ANC,it can be done in iOS though. Another slight niggle is that unlike on the Track Air+ the music is not muted when you got to Ambient, I quite liked that.

As for SQ, the treble can be a bit shrill (can easily be EQd out) but the bass is there and the soundstage and imaging is excellent to my ears.

I have now tried the three ANC TWS, the Sony WF-1000Xm3, Libratone Track Air+ and AirPods Pro and the AP clearly come out on top overall. Unlike the other two they have no obvious faults and are pretty much best in class for all the features. Too bad they're the most expensive too !


----------



## n20nine (Oct 31, 2019)

How do you get the update? Nothing on my end.

Have been doing A/B tests between my Sennheiser MTW and AirPods Pro. The Sennheiser’s definitely have a wider sound stage and bring out more details and you can feel the bass slightly better. However not by much. Nothing new to what me and others shared yesterday. You will need to concentrate on the music to hear the differences. Honestly in other times I don’t really notice the differences. Maybe it’s just me. 

As a package the AirPods are far better. So much more comfortable, very small, great battery life and most importantly - fantastic mics. This is my first TWS that I can use for conference calls.

I don’t think I will miss the Sennheiser’s and will keep the AirPod Pros. The pressure vent thing they have also works well.



msooffutt said:


> Looks like the AirPods pro got a firmware update.  Latest version should be 2B584.  I think the new firmware fixed the controls.  I didn’t think to mention my displeasure with the controls, but they are more responsive now.
> 
> On day two with these things and they are awesome!  Like I said, the sound isn’t up to the level of the Sony’s or the M&D, but they work so flawlessly and effortlessly that I doubt I’ll look at any other true wireless until the batteries die in these.  One last thing to mention is that the comfort of these are fantastic.  Barely know they are there.


----------



## msooffutt (Oct 31, 2019)

n20nine said:


> How do you get the update? Nothing on my end.
> 
> Have been doing A/B tests between my Sennheiser MTW and AirPods Pro. The Sennheiser’s definitely have a wider sound stage and bring out more details and you can feel the bass slightly better. However not by much. Nothing new to what me and others shared yesterday. You will need to concentrate on the music to hear the differences. Honestly in other times I don’t really notice the differences. Maybe it’s just me.
> 
> ...


It should update automatically if you’re using an iPhone.  If on an iPhone, go into setting and choose general < about and then scroll down until you see AirPods pro and select it.  There it will tell you what firmware you’re on, and if not on the current version, it may trigger it to update. You won’t have to do anything, it will just update in the background.


----------



## n20nine

Thanks I see that I’m on the new version as stated previously. Like how it does it all seamlessly which adds to the benefits of being in the ecosystem. Not for everyone though - some may not like it. 



msooffutt said:


> It should update automatically if you’re using an iPhone.  If on an iPhone, go into setting and choose general < about and then scroll down until you see AirPods pro and select it.  There it will tell you what firmware you’re on, and if not on the current version, it may trigger it to update. You won’t have to do anything, it will just update in the background.


----------



## mjb152

typhoon838 said:


> Hi guys!
> 
> So I've been out of the loop for a little while as far as the newest updates in TWS (and more specifically budget options).
> 
> ...


I'm in exactly the same boat,  and am looking at this lot,   trouble is new models keep coming out :-

Shanling MTW100 $89
Lypertek Tevi True Wireless   £99
Sabbat E12 Ultra £65
Anker Liberty pro 2 $149
Galaxy Buds £99
Soundcore liberty air pro 2 £149


----------



## d3myz

legitimmy said:


> Any updates and further impressions on the earphones? there's no reviews of them online.... with all the good impression from the Mpow T5 that Ive read im really considering this one.


I commented a while back. Nothing remarkable about them, def. not a step up from the T5. I sent the M20 back. They weren't terrible, but they are no earfun Free, which i'm currently really enjoying.


----------



## bronco1015

hifi80sman said:


> Ended up returning mine as well.  Extreme EQ made them sound decent and I was going to use them for the gym and such, but when I switched to another pair of TWS', I forgot to reset the EQ and nearly pierced my eardrums.  They looked good and were comfortable, but just couldn't deal with EQing back and forth.


i loved the case. pretty sure these were the only ones i've tried that had a non plastic case. wait the mw07 obviously. But would love to have some TWS that have either a metal or aluminum case that i enjoy listening to. Not a deal breaker if they don't obviously, would just be a nice adition


----------



## webvan

d3myz said:


> I commented a while back. Nothing remarkable about them, def. not a step up from the T5. I sent the M20 back. They weren't terrible, but they are no earfun Free, which i'm currently really enjoying.



Do you notice any "noise floor" in the right ear in the T5 between tracks ? I just got the M5 (supposedly identical to the T5) and have a bit of that, can't say it's a problem when listening to music though.


----------



## bronco1015

hifi80sman said:


> Why not trade in the Note 10, get the iPhone, then pick up an LG V30 or V35 for a couple of Benjamins (aptX, aptX HD, LDAC).  It will also have the Hi-Fi Quad DAC if you ever want to go wired.
> 
> Shoot, LG V30 (renewed) is dirt cheap.
> https://www.amazon.com/LG-V30-H932-Certified-Refurbished/dp/B07DL11YRX/


FWIW, the DAC on the V40 is a huuge step up from the one on the V30, then again, i liked what i heard from the V20 better than from the v30. But the V40 is hands down the best of the 3 imo. Way mor volume control, and over all power


----------



## bronco1015

d3myz said:


> Got mine yesterday, listened to them for under 5 min and boxed them back up. Total garbage tuning. It's too bad, i like the case and the design. I didn't have any connection issues.


yeah no connection issues either, and both sides work indipendently To bad they suck.


----------



## Caipirina (Oct 31, 2019)

webvan said:


> @Caipirina - runners unite  I'll give that claim a try later tomorrow



I want a data field on Strava to record which buds I have used on which runs  I think the most milage so far would be with the Anbes 359, still the most reliable.
Dang, hit 3000km for 2019 today 

BTW, THIS is another pair of earbud style TWS that i've been quite smitten with for a while now. Have not dared taking them out for a run though yet. But foams fit on them and they fit back in the case (with a bit of squeeze) ... the sound is at least as good as my Lezii, the connection appears to be more stable.


----------



## webvan (Oct 31, 2019)

Went for a quick bike ride with the AirPods Pro and the ANC and Ambient modes will NOT cut it as there is a very annoying wind noise. Makes sense with the mics open for cancelling/listening but Apple claimed (or at least some reviewers) that there was a special design to mitigate that. Unfortunately with Android you can only toggle between two modes ANC/Ambient, ANC/Off and Ambient/Off with the settings having to be done on iOS (and complete pairing from scratch each time) so that's a bummer.



Caipirina said:


> I want a data field on Strava to record which buds I have used on which runs  I think the most milage so far would be with the Anbes 359, still the most reliable.
> Dang, hit 3000km for 2019 today


Nice 1750km here but I took a break in March and was injured in June and August  100% of my mileage (well when I run alone) with the X12 Pro !

You can add a field in Runalyze to track your earbud mileage !


----------



## clerkpalmer

For those considering AP Pro on Android, mine worked perfectly.  As a bonus, my garmin watch controlled the volume.  I suspect any similar smart watch will do the same.  So, while the Apple software tricks are fun and cool, I'm not sure they really affect functionality.  There is no access to the ear tip test but I'll grab my wife's iphone for that.  I do want to compare SQ between the ios and android over apple music but haven't had a chance yet.


----------



## bronco1015 (Oct 31, 2019)

d3myz said:


> Dang, that's a great deal. How does the BT sound on it? @bronco1015  says the Xiaomi Mi Mix 2 sounded really good via BT, but Redditors mentioned the DAC in didn't push wired devices very well. Bronco, have you tried any other BTs with the MI Mix 2?


not sure if theres much of a difference between the Mi mix 2 and 2S, but on the 2S yes. I tried them with my PSB M4U TW1 forever ago when i owned those, they sounded very full is the first word that comes to mind. nothing held back. i paired the ofusho f16 to them, wasn't worse than they sound on the v40, though i did remove the fin on them and a little of the outter plastic and they fit pretty great now and are my showerbuds now lol. Also the plantronics backbeat pro 5100 got loudest while paired to the mi mix 2S, and that thumping bass rattled my head. This phone is definitely not for everyone. That is to say, miui is not for everyone. but it is really customizable which is nice. Those are the only TWS i've paired with this phone as of yet. Forgot to add that yeah, not even gonna try wired anything with this phone. A i think it will be terrible, and B i don't want anything dongling from my phone.


----------



## clerkpalmer

webvan said:


> Went for a quick bike ride with the AirPods Pro and the ANC and Ambient modes will NOT cut it as there is a very annoying wind noise. Makes sense with the mics open for cancelling/listening but Apple claimed (or at least some reviewers) that there was a special design to mitigate that. Unfortunately with Android you can only toggle between two modes ANC/Ambient, ANC/Off and Ambient/Off with the settings having to be done on iOS (and complete pairing from scratch each time) so that's



That's a bummer. I was wondering whether the wind noise would be an issue on the bike outside. That was one of my potential use cases as I ride on a trail.


----------



## webvan (Oct 31, 2019)

clerkpalmer said:


> That's a bummer. I was wondering whether the wind noise would be an issue on the bike outside. That was one of my potential use cases as I ride on a trail.



Good news, I went back and gave it another try and you can in fact have the three modes actives on Android too. Not sure what happened previously when my iPad didn't recognize my APPs after I'd linked them to my Android. Here's what I did :
- Connect to iPad
- Pair to Android with the button in the back of the case
- put them back in the box, open the box next to the iPad, it will show battery the battery info
- go to BT settings, connect or just clink on "i", then you can activate all three settings, ANC/Ambient/Off and they will stick when you connect to Android. For some reason they will be mirrored on the left and the right, might be a bug (FW is 2B576 on mine)


----------



## WesennTony

Love the MW07 Go so far as a smaller package than original and the charging case is better for out and about. 
The Airpods Pro seems quite tempting... Anybody thinks they're a good option for sleep earbuds? They look smaller, have shorter stick, and ANC should work to block AC noise in some hotels.


----------



## d3myz

hifi80sman said:


> In a vacuum, yes, that's a rip, for Apple, that's like WalMart Clearance Price!


Truth, we are talking about a company that's biggest discounts are 5-10%.


----------



## msooffutt (Oct 31, 2019)

Just remembered that these AirPod pros have always on “hey Siri”.  Works very good even in a noisy environment.  Makes it nice when you’re exercising or have your hands full and need to change volume, play/pause, skip or play music from Apple Music or Spotify.  The Spotify addition works pretty good, just have to say Spotify somewhere in the command.  Not something I would use in public, but in my shop it’s very useful.

You can also tell Siri to turn noise canceling on and off and also turn on transparency mode.  Not often I would do that, but a nice option.


----------



## srinivasvignesh

Contacted M&D about the lack of Multi point on the newer models and they confirmed it. However, they also have said that they are planning to add it in the future (a similar response to AAC support).


----------



## msooffutt

srinivasvignesh said:


> Contacted M&D about the lack of Multi point on the newer models and they confirmed it. However, they also have said that they are planning to add it in the future (a similar response to AAC support).


That’s interesting.  I wonder if they plan on releasing an app for this.


----------



## srinivasvignesh

I have asked them specifically the same and hopefully we will have a positive answer. I will update this thread after I get a response.


----------



## webvan (Oct 31, 2019)

I paired the APPs with my Win10 laptop and it works OK...but only in "Noise Control Off" mode, with ANC or Ambient ON I get some weird and painful "pops" in the right ear. Could be my laptop of course. I'm also finding the volume a tad low, just ok at  max.

EDIT - ok, put them back in the box and now that "popping" noise is gone. I can also switch on the fly from my computer to my android even a track is playing. The laptop will take the connection back though after a couple of seconds even if no music is playing.


----------



## hifi80sman

bronco1015 said:


> FWIW, the DAC on the V40 is a huuge step up from the one on the V30, then again, i liked what i heard from the V20 better than from the v30. But the V40 is hands down the best of the 3 imo. Way mor volume control, and over all power


Yeah, I was giving budget options since it would cost a pretty penny to go with the iPhone 11 Pro, even after the Note 10 trade in.  Also, I haven't gone wired in a looong time, so it would make more sense to save get a cheaper phone with all the needed codecs AND a new pair of TWS'.


----------



## hifi80sman

srinivasvignesh said:


> I have asked them specifically the same and hopefully we will have a positive answer. I will update this thread after I get a response.


Without an estimated timeline, it's hard to know if there's actually something in the works _*right now*_ or if they plan, on making a plan, to implement.


----------



## hifi80sman

clerkpalmer said:


> For those considering AP Pro on Android, mine worked perfectly.  As a bonus, my garmin watch controlled the volume.  I suspect any similar smart watch will do the same.  So, while the Apple software tricks are fun and cool, I'm not sure they really affect functionality.  There is no access to the ear tip test but I'll grab my wife's iphone for that.  I do want to compare SQ between the ios and android over apple music but haven't had a chance yet.


I'd also be curious if battery life is better connected to an iPhone vs. Android (different AAC engine).  Per notes in the release, Apple gave some of the best specifics for battery test I've seen.


----------



## howdy

Just watched the video by Flossy Carter and he still likes the power beats over the Pod pros. I personally cant stand the look of either and Im really enjoying the Power beats pro. He also mentioned that the Sony noise cancelling is far better than the Apple Pod Pros. Im still amazed that some of the people here cant really see the difference with the Sony Noise NC, I think its night and day difference. I have a bathroom fan that is really loud (I bought it this way for extreme exhausting if you know what I mean) and tried with the NC off than on with no music playing and its significant. My expectations are not that high as this is an IEM and can not be compared to a headphone, I also need to mention I have Spinfits on my Sonys.


----------



## hifi80sman

howdy said:


> Just watched the video by Flossy Carter and he still likes the power beats over the Pod pros. I personally cant stand the look of either and Im really enjoying the Power beats pro. He also mentioned that the Sony noise cancelling is far better than the Apple Pod Pros. Im still amazed that some of the people here cant really see the difference with the Sony Noise NC, I think its night and day difference. I have a bathroom fan that is really loud (I bought it this way for extreme exhausting if you know what I mean) and tried with the NC off than on with no music playing and its significant. My expectations are not that high as this is an IEM and can not be compared to a headphone, I also need to mention I have Spinfits on my Sonys.



I find his reviews entertaining.  He listens to everything at, literally, max volume, so take impressions with a grain of salt.  I rarely ever go above 40%.


----------



## webvan (Oct 31, 2019)

@howdy "I think its night and day difference" - between what and what as it doesn't seem you have the APPs ? A fan with ANC on/off with the XM3 ? Sure there's going to be a big difference, like with ANC device that's worth it's salt 

I'm not sure how this guys can say that "Sony noise cancelling is far better than the Apple Pod Pros" ! I detailed my "ANC testing" process above and the APPs do nearly as well as the QC25 (which are close to being best in class). The WF-1000Xm3s, Track AIR+ and QC20s I had where further behind the QC25, not sure what else to say.


----------



## msooffutt

howdy said:


> Just watched the video by Flossy Carter and he still likes the power beats over the Pod pros. I personally cant stand the look of either and Im really enjoying the Power beats pro. He also mentioned that the Sony noise cancelling is far better than the Apple Pod Pros. Im still amazed that some of the people here cant really see the difference with the Sony Noise NC, I think its night and day difference. I have a bathroom fan that is really loud (I bought it this way for extreme exhausting if you know what I mean) and tried with the NC off than on with no music playing and its significant. My expectations are not that high as this is an IEM and can not be compared to a headphone, I also need to mention I have Spinfits on my Sonys.



You’re not wrong, the Sony’s have better noise canceling.  Transparency goes to the pros though.  Love that you can hear your own voice.


----------



## XGUGU

sly_in_the_sky said:


> Hello,
> 
> I have been searching for this info but I don't know if the Noble Falcon TWS have been referenced here.
> 
> https://twitter.com/i/moments/1182133806477656064


we talked a bit about like 100 pages ago. It was also on the front page of head-fi.  It seems like they're shipping already in JP. on my whish list since announced, waiting for reviews.


----------



## msooffutt

webvan said:


> @howdy "I think its night and day difference" - between what and what as it doesn't seem you have the APPs ? A fan with ANC on/off with the XM3 ? Sure there's going to be a big difference, like with ANC device that's worth it's salt
> 
> I'm not sure how this guys can say that "Sony noise cancelling is far better than the Apple Pod Pros" ! I detailed my "ANC testing" process above and the APPs do nearly as well as the QC25 (which are close to being best in class). The WF-1000Xm3s, Track AIR+ and QC20s I had where further behind the QC25, not sure what else to say.


I wouldn’t say it’s night and day, but with my own test I did in my shop, the Sony’s were a clear winner.  For me, I think they are good enough, but noise canceling isn’t as important to me as it is to other people.


----------



## clerkpalmer

hifi80sman said:


> Yeah, I was giving budget options since it would cost a pretty penny to go with the iPhone 11 Pro, even after the Note 10 trade in.  Also, I haven't gone wired in a looong time, so it would make more sense to save get a cheaper phone with all the needed codecs AND a new pair of TWS'.



It's not a bad idea particularly since the LG offers AptxHD which Samsung inexplicably does not.  After doing the math, I am sticking with Android.   A trade of my used Note 10+ to an IPhone 11 pro max (of course I couldn't bring myself to purchase any other model), is still costing me $500 and the Apple ecosystem isn't worth that much to me.  I prefer the Samsung hardware too.


----------



## clerkpalmer

msooffutt said:


> I wouldn’t say it’s night and day, but with my own test I did in my shop, the Sony’s were a clear winner.  For me, I think they are good enough, but noise canceling isn’t as important to me as it is to other people.



Interesting.  I don't have the Sony's anymore but my immediate reaction was the Apple had stronger NC.  May have been a fit issue.  I did not like how the Sony's fit.


----------



## d3myz

webvan said:


> Do you notice any "noise floor" in the right ear in the T5 between tracks ? I just got the M5 (supposedly identical to the T5) and have a bit of that, can't say it's a problem when listening to music though.


I haven't.


----------



## d3myz

bronco1015 said:


> not sure if theres much of a difference between the Mi mix 2 and 2S, but on the 2S yes. I tried them with my PSB M4U TW1 forever ago when i owned those, they sounded very full is the first word that comes to mind. nothing held back. i paired the ofusho f16 to them, wasn't worse than they sound on the v40, though i did remove the fin on them and a little of the outter plastic and they fit pretty great now and are my showerbuds now lol. Also the plantronics backbeat pro 5100 got loudest while paired to the mi mix 2S, and that thumping bass rattled my head. This phone is definitely not for everyone. That is to say, miui is not for everyone. but it is really customizable which is nice. Those are the only TWS i've paired with this phone as of yet. Forgot to add that yeah, not even gonna try wired anything with this phone. A i think it will be terrible, and B i don't want anything dongling from my phone.


Thanks for the feedback on this. I'd only be using the phone for music, mostly BT, so I honestly don't really care about the other functionalities. I"m eyeing the V30, V40's Under $200 is a steal.


----------



## msooffutt

clerkpalmer said:


> Interesting.  I don't have the Sony's anymore but my immediate reaction was the Apple had stronger NC.  May have been a fit issue.  I did not like how the Sony's fit.


I bet that might be it.  I just retested to make sure and still think the same way.  I think I may sell the Sony’s.  Overall the AirPods are a clear win with everything else but sound.  I might keep the mw07s though.


----------



## d3myz

bronco1015 said:


> yeah no connection issues either, and both sides work indipendently To bad they suck.


They are up there with the SoundPeats Truengine SE as some of the worst TWS' i've heard.


----------



## clerkpalmer

msooffutt said:


> I bet that might be it.  I just retested to make sure and still think the same way.  I think I may sell the Sony’s.  Overall the AirPods are a clear win with everything else but sound.  I might keep the mw07s though.


I think the air pods plus the mw07 is a nice combo. I will also say the the liberty 2 pro is a poor man's mw07.  They sound fantastic.


----------



## howdy

hifi80sman said:


> I find his reviews entertaining.  He listens to everything at, literally, max volume, so take impressions with a grain of salt.  I rarely ever go above 40%.



I've always liked his reviews, I have been watching them for years, and I always take everyone's reviews lightly. I think they are entertaining as well. I just wanted to post another persons insight.


----------



## go0gle

clerkpalmer said:


> I think the air pods plus the mw07 is a nice combo. I will also say the the liberty 2 pro is a poor man's mw07.  They sound fantastic.



Indeed they do.. Seems like soundcore used good components in there.


----------



## howdy (Oct 31, 2019)

webvan said:


> @howdy "I think its night and day difference" - between what and what as it doesn't seem you have the APPs ? A fan with ANC on/off with the XM3 ? Sure there's going to be a big difference, like with ANC device that's worth it's salt
> 
> I'm not sure how this guys can say that "Sony noise cancelling is far better than the Apple Pod Pros" ! I detailed my "ANC testing" process above and the APPs do nearly as well as the QC25 (which are close to being best in class). The WF-1000Xm3s, Track AIR+ and QC20s I had where further behind the QC25, not sure what else to say.


I guess my expectations and yours are not the same, which is good. I have never tried the Air pod Pros so I do not (and did not) have any comparisons to give. I just know that the Sonys that I have and own do a relatively great job blocking ambient sounds, which in turn means I can listen at a lower level. If i seen some promising reviews of the air pods i would considering them an option over the Beats pro but so far the beats seem to be the better overall choice as for SQ only.


----------



## d3myz

Interesting Review of the APPs, Echo buds and Sony's.


----------



## d3myz

It looks like There is a firmware update for the Soundcore L2Pro's. I'm updating now. Will report back.


----------



## ceeloChamp

I own the Airpods and the mw07 and it is indeed a good combo! 

I get that Apple is in the business to make money, but I was holding on to my first generation Airpods that were crapping out in the hopes that they would release somthing with better voice and connectivity. Then they release the Iphone 11 which I buy b.c I was due for an upgrade and with it the AirPods 2...then once everyone like me has bought their AirPods2 they release the Pro ones, no doubt that was a smart money making move, but as the consumer I'm bummed...obviously not bummed enough to boycott Apple, but ugh. 

Sorry, I had to rant somewhere, thanks for listening!


----------



## hifi80sman

d3myz said:


> It looks like There is a firmware update for the Soundcore L2Pro's. I'm updating now. Will report back.


What firmware version is it?  01.15?


----------



## Sam L

hifi80sman said:


> I find his reviews entertaining.  He listens to everything at, literally, max volume, so take impressions with a grain of salt.  I rarely ever go above 40%.



haeha. I watch Flossy's reviews regularly for the pure entertainment value, but he is a pretty consistent reviewer, in terms of what he likes and doesn't.

I spent around 5 or 6 hours on my airpod pros. For android users debating on getting a pair, let me save you time -- don't bother. Not worth the money. I'm keeping my airpods and giving the pros to my wife.

My belief re: airpods (and now the pro version) is that most users have no idea what other audio options exist, let alone what value can be found for a fraction of the price of the airpods / airpods pros. Iphone users LOVE airpods for their simple, bulletproof integration into the iOS ecosystem. A close second reason would be phone call quality (admittedly class-leading, but still my aging jawbone headsets are more practical in noisy environments and just as good quality-wise in every other call scenario).

The new Airpods Pro basically extends this line of thinking and has even improved in call quality. There's some outbound noise-canceling now. And they do sound pretty good, just not $249-good.


----------



## go0gle

hifi80sman said:


> What firmware version is it?  01.15?



Got that last week but someone here mentioned 1.65 , haven't gotten that yet. Could be regional , I am in the US and there are no new updates


----------



## d3myz

hifi80sman said:


> I find his reviews entertaining.  He listens to everything at, literally, max volume, so take impressions with a grain of salt.  I rarely ever go above 40%.


I really like Flossy's reviews.


----------



## d3myz

Sam L said:


> haeha. I watch Flossy's reviews regularly for the pure entertainment value, but he is a pretty consistent reviewer, in terms of what he likes and doesn't.
> 
> I spent around 5 or 6 hours on my airpod pros. For android users debating on getting a pair, let me save you time -- don't bother. Not worth the money. I'm keeping my airpods and giving the pros to my wife.
> 
> ...


Excellent Synopsis. Couldn't agree more.


----------



## go0gle

d3myz said:


> I really like Flossy's reviews.



His reviews are Very entertaining! 

He does need to find a different track to test that bass tho there's  lots of well produced techno that would push headphones further overall.


----------



## d3myz

hifi80sman said:


> What firmware version is it?  01.15?


Yes.


----------



## cn11

Finally joining the wireless world... got in a pair of TRN BT20. So nice to be free of the cords. Sound is surprisingly good with this just from my Note8.


----------



## d3myz

go0gle said:


> His reviews are Very entertaining!
> 
> He does need to find a different track to test that bass tho there's  lots of well produced techno that would push headphones further overall.


I haven't really listened to the one he uses, but yea, there's a lot of good ones out there.


----------



## Sam L (Oct 31, 2019)

Sam L said:


> haeha. I watch Flossy's reviews regularly for the pure entertainment value, but he is a pretty consistent reviewer, in terms of what he likes and doesn't.
> 
> I spent around 5 or 6 hours on my airpod pros. For android users debating on getting a pair, let me save you time -- don't bother. Not worth the money. I'm keeping my airpods and giving the pros to my wife.
> 
> ...



I'm not suggesting that the airpods are my go-to TWS earphones, but they do fill a need for convenience, pocketability, and calls. As I write this I'm thoroughly enjoying Mozart's first piano concerto on my mifo 05's -- coupled with viper4android module, BT earphones never sounded better.


----------



## Sam L

rhsauer said:


> Well, I got home tonight and the Amazon Echo Buds were waiting for me, so I spent some time listening to them at home (and while I walked the dog) to get a sense of how they compare to the AirPod Pros.  It's too late to write a detailed comparison, but here are a few quick observations:
> 
> 
> The Amazon Buds insert much more deeply into the ear canal than the AirPod's, resulting in much better passive isolation -- so even though their "Bose Noise Reduction" isn't as strong as the AirPod's ANC, the net result seems about the same.  I'll know better after my subway ride in the morning.  The downside of their deep insertion is less comfort.  The AirPods are so comfortable you can forget you're wearing them, but the Amazon Buds, while not uncomfortable, don't exactly disappear in the same way.
> ...


Thanks for your observations. Just ordered a pair, but they're out of stock til Nov. 5. 

Agreed on the comfort of the Airpods Pro, they are hands down the most comfortable TWS earphones I've tried.


----------



## Matez

sithjedi333 said:


> These are a keeper.



Something tells me that these IEMs might be viewed by this noble community as a spare functional backup pair at best. To explain myself, I've been using iPhones for years so am not against Apple


----------



## hifi80sman

d3myz said:


> I really like Flossy's reviews.


I really like his singing.


----------



## Grayson73

bubsdaddy said:


> Thanks! I already have the Anbes 359 but my wife likes white so I snagged a pair.



Looking forward to your compare.  My SSK sound much better than the Anbes 359, so I'm thinking my 359 are defective.


----------



## webvan

msooffutt said:


> I wouldn’t say it’s night and day, but with my own test I did in my shop, the Sony’s were a clear winner.  For me, I think they are good enough, but noise canceling isn’t as important to me as it is to other people.


What kind of test did you do in your shop ? I still find that blasting "cabin noise" (like this ) at max volume is the best way to test ANC 

@d3myz - thanks for checking the noise floor on the T5s. Just my luck then to have that M5 with that noise floor in the right. Wonder if there's a way to reset them somehow, probably not.

@clerkpalmer - the ANC on the APPs is indeed very powerful, just walked through a mall today and I felt "death"  You can also do a "fun" experiment, activate ANC then take one bud out, this will stop ANC and then put it in your hand and close your fist. This reactivates ANC in the other ear.

Someone posted above that the APPs were "not worth the money" for Android users, which has me puzzled. Other than not having Siri (and no way to activate "hi google" or whatever it's called now) they work absolutely fine with full ANC control, pause, stop/start. Sure they're expensive but they're the best size/fit/weight/ANC/SQ combo out there.


----------



## Grayson73

mattedialdoc said:


> I think the Bomaker and MPow have deeper bass, wider soundstage, and sharper highs and mids than the SSK. They are a little more expensive...but under $50.



Interesting.  I found the SSK to have a much wider soundstage than the Mpow, and a few others said that as well.  I'm wondering if these things have variation differences.


----------



## bubsdaddy

howdy said:


> Just watched the video by Flossy Carter and he still likes the power beats over the Pod pros. I personally cant stand the look of either and Im really enjoying the Power beats pro. He also mentioned that the Sony noise cancelling is far better than the Apple Pod Pros. Im still amazed that some of the people here cant really see the difference with the Sony Noise NC, I think its night and day difference. I have a bathroom fan that is really loud (I bought it this way for extreme exhausting if you know what I mean) and tried with the NC off than on with no music playing and its significant. My expectations are not that high as this is an IEM and can not be compared to a headphone, I also need to mention I have Spinfits on my Sonys.




So, it's not a major, major go?


----------



## Grayson73

typhoon838 said:


> Hi guys!
> 
> So I've been out of the loop for a little while as far as the newest updates in TWS (and more specifically budget options).
> 
> ...



People have said that the Kissral R18 and SSK are the same as the Anbes 359.  If you're in the U.S., the SSK is cheap at $20.99.

My SSK actually sound much better than the Anbes 359, so I'm thinking that my 359 are defective.  I just received another SSK to compare.


----------



## msooffutt

webvan said:


> What kind of test did you do in your shop ? I still find that blasting "cabin noise" (like this ) at max volume is the best way to test ANC
> 
> @d3myz - thanks for checking the noise floor on the T5s. Just my luck then to have that M5 with that noise floor in the right. Wonder if there's a way to reset them somehow, probably not.
> 
> ...



I just went by the noise in my shop which has grinders running all day.  Nothing scientific, just using my ears and swapping one out for the other.  I don’t really care too much which one is better, since I actually find transparency to be the most important to me when working in the shop, because I need to hear what’s going on.  Transparency is great with the pros, because I can hear myself speaking and that is so useful when speaking to someone in the shop or on the phone.


----------



## Timastyle (Oct 31, 2019)

Just bought a pair of SSK from Amazon.  At $22, ability to connect 2 devices at the same time and the SQ of what's been described here, can't really lose.  Call quality is reportedly decent, so these would make for a great office pair to use to listen to music and calls while connected to my phone and laptop.

In reading some more on these, the scarbir review says that you actually connect to 2 devices simultaneously.  Can anyone who has these weigh in on whether or not it's possible?


----------



## Cuebbing

Matez said:


> Something tells me that these IEMs might be viewed by this noble community as a spare functional backup pair at best. To explain myself, I've been using iPhones for years so am not against Apple



This is where I've landed for true wireless as a whole.  In my experience most of the true wireless sets I tried have some kind of quirk that make them annoying, things like short battery life, bluetooth dropouts, sync issues between the two buds, poor mic quality for phone calls, lag between sound and video (watching videos), fit/comfort, and poor audio quality (important for me).  For listening to music I keep finding myself grabbing IEMs with a short cable to an ear studio ES100 or FIIO BTR3.
But man I sure like to mobility of TWS without the cumbersome cables.  I have/had many TWS and tend to grab the Sennheiser Momentum TWS.  I really like most aspects of the Jabra elite 65t but the Sennheiser sounds better.  The Jabra is great for conference calls at work (Sennheiser is pretty good also).  There are so many dang choices it's hard to keep up.  When shopping/browsing for TWS to consider something I usually need to see at least bluetooth 5.0, APTX, 5 hour battery life, and preferably a phone app (EQ).
As the audio quality and battery life continue to improve the TWS will take over for what I use.


----------



## D3soLaT3

My house is starting to look like Space Invaders with all these UFOs.

Anbes sound better than the unbranded. SSKs sound promising. Let's see if they can take the throne.


----------



## Sam L

Cuebbing said:


> This is where I've landed for true wireless as a whole.  In my experience most of the true wireless sets I tried have some kind of quirk that make them annoying, things like short battery life, bluetooth dropouts, sync issues between the two buds, poor mic quality for phone calls, lag between sound and video (watching videos), fit/comfort, and poor audio quality (important for me).  For listening to music I keep finding myself grabbing IEMs with a short cable to an ear studio ES100 or FIIO BTR3.
> But man I sure like to mobility of TWS without the cumbersome cables.  I have/had many TWS and tend to grab the Sennheiser Momentum TWS.  I really like most aspects of the Jabra elite 65t but the Sennheiser sounds better.  The Jabra is great for conference calls at work (Sennheiser is pretty good also).  There are so many dang choices it's hard to keep up.  When shopping/browsing for TWS to consider something I usually need to see at least bluetooth 5.0, APTX, 5 hour battery life, and preferably a phone app (EQ).
> As the audio quality and battery life continue to improve the TWS will take over for what I use.



I do exactly the same, tend to grab a pair of iems with the fiio btr3. what's in my ear at this very moment.


----------



## hifi80sman

D3soLaT3 said:


> My house is starting to look like Space Invaders with all these UFOs.
> 
> Anbes sound better than the unbranded. SSKs sound promising. Let's see if they can take the throne.


Have you tried Monster's branded version?


----------



## d3myz

Grayson73 said:


> Looking forward to your compare.  My SSK sound much better than the Anbes 359, so I'm thinking my 359 are defective.


Interesting take, but I def. see where your coming from. I acutally like the SSK better for some stuff especially audiobooks, the low mid bass is cleaner and the highs are a touch crisper to me. I have two pair of 359's and the ones I like the best for music are the ones that i've used for maybe 40-50 hours. they do break in nicely, but they def. aren't as clean as the ssk's.


----------



## hifi80sman

OUCH


----------



## webvan

Grayson73 said:


> Interesting.  I found the SSK to have a much wider soundstage than the Mpow, and a few others said that as well.  I'm wondering if these things have variation differences.



Like I wrote this morning the soundstage of the Anbes 359 is almost TOO wide making it had to the (my) brain to put the two sides together. I prefer the T5/M5, too bad my right bud has that high noise floor between tracks...


hifi80sman said:


> OUCH



Gonna have to sit tight Klaus !


----------



## d3myz

bubsdaddy said:


> So, it's not a major, major go?


Hahah. They were for Flossy, but he did say he thought the sound quality was almost the same as the Galaxy buds, but the bass was a little my defined in the APPs.


----------



## posedown

I'll give it up with TWS for now. Most of the time I want to have my phone in my pocket. And just in this case, I have constantly dropouts. 
At first I thought it was the Tribit X1, then the Mpow T5 and the Sabbat E12 Ultra. Everywhere the same. 
Then I thought it had to do with my Huawei Mate 10 Pro. 
But today I got the Shanling M0 and the MTW 100. And guess what, exactly the same! 
M0 in my pocket and a little twist with my head and immediately I get dropouts.


----------



## hifi80sman

webvan said:


> Gonna have to sit tight Klaus !


Nein!


----------



## SilverEars (Oct 31, 2019)

posedown said:


> I'll give it up with TWS for now. Most of the time I want to have my phone in my pocket. And just in this case, I have constantly dropouts.
> At first I thought it was the Tribit X1, then the Mpow T5 and the Sabbat E12 Ultra. Everywhere the same.
> Then I thought it had to do with my Huawei Mate 10 Pro.
> But today I got the Shanling M0 and the MTW 100. And guess what, exactly the same!
> M0 in my pocket and a little twist with my head and immediately I get dropouts.


Airpod Pro has been rock solid for signal.  Seems reliable.  I should try my M0, but out of my Android phone, rock solid.  I also walked away from the phone a bit of a distance with walls between, and signal didn't drop.

Next test would be with phone on my pocked, and laying on the floor with the phone sandwiched beneath.


----------



## theGatMan

To say the signal with the APP and IPhone 11 Pro is rock solid is a severe understatement,  as I just found out when I left my phone in a bag, on a table in an archery range and walked 80 meters to retrieve my arrows, all the while listening to my music without so much as a twitch on the signal.  No walls, but people in the LOS path.

Signal on my Sony WF1000XM3 gets flaky at 10 meters.


----------



## actorlife (Oct 31, 2019)

SI've been out of the loop for a little while as far as the newest updates in TWS (and more specifically budget options).

I've had the Anbes 359 (seems like I got one of the last pairs) since earlier this year and LOVE them. They are such a versatile, great sounding pair and I'm completely satisfied with them. However, one of the little rubber pads fell off, and while I managed to glue it back on, it made me think that it might be time to get something new.

I like the sound signature of the anbes, but wouldn't mind more sub bass. I understand that it'll be hard to accommodate that while maintaining the excellent clarity and soundstage that the anbes had.

Before I fell off the face of the earth, the Kissral R18 was supposedly the same as the Anbes 359, but rebranded. Is this still the case, for the Kissral r18s being sold on amazon?

The other ones I was looking into were the Tranya T3s (I heard they have excellent bass and comparable sound quality to the anbes), or the Tranya B530, which were being sent to people for testing last time I checked. Any update on those? I think I remember the MPOW T5s being highly recommended as well. Also, I know this is a longshot, but ambient mode would be amazing, I just haven't seen any offerings that aren't super expensive, that sound like what I want.

What do you guys think, and are there any contenders that I'm missing?[/QUOTE]
*If you like the Anbes with more bass get these I also did a review. Check my sig: Bluetooth Earbuds Wireless Earbuds Bluetooth Earphones Wireless Headphones, OFUSHO Bluetooth 5.0 Deep Bass 152H Playtime IPX7 Waterproof TWS Stereo in-Ear Headphones with Charging Case, CVC8.0 Apt-X https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07VD3M6M3/ref=cm_sw_r_sms_apa_i_LZ2UDbXBQNTM6*


----------



## howdy

theGatMan said:


> To say the signal with the APP and IPhone 11 Pro is rock solid is a severe understatement,  as I just found out when I left my phone in a bag, on a table in an archery range and walked 80 meters to retrieve my arrows, all the while listening to my music without so much as a twitch on the signal.  No walls, but people in the LOS path.
> 
> Signal on my Sony WF1000XM3 gets flaky at 10 meters.


Wow, that's odd. I can leave my phone on the opposite side of my house go out the garage into the back yard and no signal issues at all. This has the best range of all of the ones I have so far.


----------



## carlosonunez

SilverEars said:


> Yeah, Apple does bend you over with their premium pricing.  I don't like their 'ecosystem' thing and closed nature of their software, although I like the material finshes and designs.  Wish they'd let iWhatches work with Android.  I prefer Android OS for phones.
> 
> $250 is a lot relative to the market, but also there are some features not on typical TW.  It's early and it's usually waise to be patient and wait it out until hype dies.
> 
> General question for all:  Is it possible to have different wireless streaming quality of AAC codec between iPhones and Android phones?



The AirPods Pro are proving that there was always a market for $250 headphones given a desirable-enough product. These are currently backordered several weeks out.

I actually feel really bad for Bragi here because they were many years ahead of Apple when they dropped the Dash in 2014 (ambient mode, passive noise cancellation, in-ear, waterproof), but very few people thought they were worth their $350 asking price and, unlike Apple, they didn't have infinite money to fall back on.


----------



## clerkpalmer

carlosonunez said:


> The AirPods Pro are proving that there was always a market for $250 headphones given a desirable-enough product. These are currently backordered several weeks out.
> 
> I actually feel really bad for Bragi here because they were many years ahead of Apple when they dropped the Dash in 2014 (ambient mode, passive noise cancellation, in-ear, waterproof), but very few people thought they were worth their $350 asking price and, unlike Apple, they didn't have infinite money to fall back on.


Bragi was definitely the first and most ambitious. it was pretty damn good at the time. I think jabra killed them with the original elite sport.  Bragi couldn't decide what kind of company it wanted to be.  They were probably always going to get clobbered by the big boys eventually.  Definitely innovators.


----------



## SilverEars (Oct 31, 2019)

carlosonunez said:


> The AirPods Pro are proving that there was always a market for $250 headphones given a desirable-enough product. These are currently backordered several weeks out.
> 
> I actually feel really bad for Bragi here because they were many years ahead of Apple when they dropped the Dash in 2014 (ambient mode, passive noise cancellation, in-ear, waterproof), but very few people thought they were worth their $350 asking price and, unlike Apple, they didn't have infinite money to fall back on.


I just ordered a set for pick-up at a nearby Apple Store.  That was the quickest way to get one. It was available launch day online.

If anybody has Apple store nearby, you can walk in and demo them.  They sanitize each demo'd units, and bring out a fresh sanitized set for new demo's.  I don't know if they will have various tip sizes available for demo.  What they did was seal the charging case shut with sealing tape (indicating it's a sanitized unit), and didn't provide additional tips for the demo.

The previous Airpods didn't really pull me to even try them out.  I just knew the fit would be mediocre and bass would suffer. Also I didn't like the long nozzle sticking out so far, looked weird. Only interesting part was how small the case was.  With the new model, they made changes that warrant even trying it out.


----------



## D3soLaT3

hifi80sman said:


> Have you tried Monster's branded version?


I have not but they are in my cart at Aliexpress for 11.11.


----------



## D3soLaT3

d3myz said:


> Interesting take, but I def. see where your coming from. I acutally like the SSK better for some stuff especially audiobooks, the low mid bass is cleaner and the highs are a touch crisper to me. I have two pair of 359's and the ones I like the best for music are the ones that i've used for maybe 40-50 hours. they do break in nicely, but they def. aren't as clean as the ssk's.


I've only owned the SSKs for 24hrs but I'm thinking they sound better too.


----------



## clerkpalmer

Had a good session with my ap pro riding my trainer tonight. I have a big metal fan in front of me. I'm still lukewarm on the sq. It's better than average for the category but not top tier. The ANC killed most of the fan noise. The gear changes I could hear however.  This is an ideal use for me but of I'm being honest and not excited about a new gadget I think these are overpriced but still a quality product that will satisfy the needs of almost everyone but those looking for higher end sq. I'll probably keep them around since apple resale is so good. beginning to wonder if the mw07 plus might split the baby and offer some ANC and amazing sq. Might swap my mw07 go for the plus and see.


----------



## CocaCola15 (Oct 31, 2019)

go0gle said:


> Got that last week but someone here mentioned 1.65 , haven't gotten that yet. Could be regional , I am in the US and there are no new updates


That was me. I don’t know why, but I could swear I saw 1.65 downloading and installing, but just checked and it is 1.15. I must be losing it. Too much bourbon and medical weed!


----------



## JonIrenicus (Oct 31, 2019)

FINALLY !!!!!!!!!!!

I ordered the liberty 2 pros on October 7, suffered innumerable delays, but finally got them today, on the 31st, Hallows Eve.




I did some preliminary tests, and honestly, they sound great.  I get what people mean about the V shape sound signature, the mids are definitely recessed, but selecting the vocal booster preset does a good job of mitigating that.  Interestintly, the hear ID and the vocal booster presets sound the best to me, not the signature sound.  I guess it's my hearing.

As for comparisons, I only have some cheapo mpow wireless earbuds for comparison, and these dwarf those in sound quality.  I've used the klipsch s4 wired buds in the past and these are better than those, and sound better than my old wired triple fis too, and much more comfortable to wear.

My main headphones are the ATH Q701s, and these are not far off from those honestly, aside from the mids being less present on the earbuds.

And now, it's time for a universal test for ALL of you, how do your wireless earbuds handle this piece.



The music that is never focused on, the one genre of music when trumpets were given their due, decades ago, the hidden gems of spaghetti western scores.


----------



## nanaholic

theGatMan said:


> To say the signal with the APP and IPhone 11 Pro is rock solid is a severe understatement,  as I just found out when I left my phone in a bag, on a table in an archery range and walked 80 meters to retrieve my arrows, all the while listening to my music without so much as a twitch on the signal.  No walls, but people in the LOS path.
> 
> Signal on my Sony WF1000XM3 gets flaky at 10 meters.



Opposite experience for me.

The AAP just dropped a connection on me on the train when I have my iPhone XS Max *IN HAND* as I'm surfing the net, and it doesn't even connect back automatically and I had to put them back in the case and take them out again. My M3 had only ever dropped the right ear for a second during my daily commute but will always bounce back straight away. 

I hope my AAP is not defect, as it seems stock is running out and exchange will take time.


----------



## Minarets

SilverEars said:


> I just ordered a set for pick-up at a nearby Apple Store.  That was the quickest way to get one. It was available launch day online.
> 
> If anybody has Apple store nearby, you can walk in and demo them.  They sanitize each demo'd units, and bring out a fresh sanitized set for new demo's.  I don't know if they will have various tip sizes available for demo.  What they did was seal the charging case shut with sealing tape (indicating it's a sanitized unit), and didn't provide additional tips for the demo.
> 
> The previous Airpods didn't really pull me to even try them out.  I just knew the fit would be mediocre and bass would suffer. Also I didn't like the long nozzle sticking out so far, looked weird. Only interesting part was how small the case was.  With the new model, they made changes that warrant even trying it out.



yeah, looking at some of these ship dates from amazon and some people that ordered from Apple, check your local Apple stores.  I convinced my sales guy to get a pair and he said there were several available in store today.


----------



## Caipirina

hifi80sman said:


> Nein!



Doch! 

Hey, those options are still better than my current best case scenario, which would require a) convincing wife that I NEED those APP and asking her to check airport duty free on next business trip (similar to your delivery time frame) .. and b) that airport duty free in Nairobi actually gets them by then AND does not charge totally crazy over the top

Then next chance is xmas time ...


----------



## paulwasabii

actorlife said:


> SI've been out of the loop for a little while as far as the newest updates in TWS (and more specifically budget options).
> 
> I've had the Anbes 359 (seems like I got one of the last pairs) since earlier this year and LOVE them. They are such a versatile, great sounding pair and I'm completely satisfied with them. However, one of the little rubber pads fell off, and while I managed to glue it back on, it made me think that it might be time to get something new.
> 
> ...


*If you like the Anbes with more bass get these I also did a review. Check my sig: Bluetooth Earbuds Wireless Earbuds Bluetooth Earphones Wireless Headphones, OFUSHO Bluetooth 5.0 Deep Bass 152H Playtime IPX7 Waterproof TWS Stereo in-Ear Headphones with Charging Case, CVC8.0 Apt-X https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07VD3M6M3/ref=cm_sw_r_sms_apa_i_LZ2UDbXBQNTM6*[/QUOTE]


actorlife said:


> SI've been out of the loop for a little while as far as the newest updates in TWS (and more specifically budget options).
> 
> I've had the Anbes 359 (seems like I got one of the last pairs) since earlier this year and LOVE them. They are such a versatile, great sounding pair and I'm completely satisfied with them. However, one of the little rubber pads fell off, and while I managed to glue it back on, it made me think that it might be time to get something new.
> 
> ...


*If you like the Anbes with more bass get these I also did a review. Check my sig: Bluetooth Earbuds Wireless Earbuds Bluetooth Earphones Wireless Headphones, OFUSHO Bluetooth 5.0 Deep Bass 152H Playtime IPX7 Waterproof TWS Stereo in-Ear Headphones with Charging Case, CVC8.0 Apt-X https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07VD3M6M3/ref=cm_sw_r_sms_apa_i_LZ2UDbXBQNTM6*[/QUOTE]

I agree on those Ofushos.  Just got them but put some KZ startips on and they sound great so far.  Connected straight to Apt-X. I could do without the charging case but it seems to have that rubberized non-slip coating which is different.


----------



## hifi80sman (Nov 1, 2019)

Cancelled my Amazon order and decided to go to the Apple Store to pick up the AirPods Pro instead.  Naturally, I compared them to my Sony, with mixed results.

- AirPods Pro are more comfortable.
- Call quality is far better.
- Great iOS integration with always on Siri.
- Mid-range bump, so vocals cut through the mix nicely.
- Great connection strength to iPhone.  Walking around the house was a breeze.  Maintained connection in locations where my other TWS' typically start to get choppy.
- Effective ANC.
- Very pocketable.

BUT...

- ANC is a little better on the Sony.  A/B test near a fairly loud oscillating fan I use and the Sony nearly blocked all the noise, while the AirPod Pros were at about 80%.
- Vents on the AirPods Pro seem to let in upper mid to high frequency noise that the ANC can't deal with.  Does well with low frequency droning noises, but it seems the lack of physical isolation hurts overall noise attenuation.
- Sound is a bit raspy.  It's as if there's a thin raspy haze overlaying the sound.
- Overall, I think the Sony sound better, quite a bit better, actually and simply sound richer, fuller, and image better.

Ultimately, if they were a little cheaper, I would keep them, but for $249 ($270 with tax), they are not a keeper for me.


----------



## paddyberger (Nov 1, 2019)

Liberty Pro 2 finally available on Amazon UK, can pre-order for delivery Sunday.

EDIT in stock Sunday, delivery 5th-6th.


----------



## webvan

clerkpalmer said:


> Had a good session with my ap pro riding my trainer tonight. I have a big metal fan in front of me. I'm still lukewarm on the sq. It's better than average for the category but not top tier. The ANC killed most of the fan noise. The gear changes I could hear however.  This is an ideal use for me but of I'm being honest and not excited about a new gadget I think these are overpriced but still a quality product that will satisfy the needs of almost everyone but those looking for higher end sq. I'll probably keep them around since apple resale is so good. beginning to wonder if the mw07 plus might split the baby and offer some ANC and amazing sq. Might swap my mw07 go for the plus and see.



Would be interested in your feedback if you get them. Be aware that they only have Forcefeed ANC though (Sony or APP or Track Air+) have Feedback ANC too so will be less efficient, which is consistent with the feedback here and in reviews where the ANC has been decribed as "mild".

How do you find the fit and the isolation of the MW07 GO ?

@rhsauer - how did the ANC testing in the tube go with your APP and Echo Buds ?


----------



## cleg

My video review of Whizzer B6: good batter life time and a decent sound


----------



## webvan

cacio said:


> I have used the following TWS: QCY T2C, Tiso i4/i5, KZ T1, MPOW T5 and Tranya B530.
> 
> KZ T1 had the best fit, and possibly because of the ear tips since I have used the small T1 ear tips on the MPOW T5 which improved the fit a lot. *The stock T5 tips made them stick out to much*. The KZ T1 ear tips are just "shorter" which allows deeper fit. I have jet to try those tips with my B530 since I feel they could also go a little bit deeper.
> 
> ...



Didn't get the B530 (yet ?) but did get the T5 (now called M5 apparently) and I found the stock tips to be a poor fit and they do indeed make them stick out badly. I pulled out the shallow Jabra Elite Sport tips and they work a lot better. The MP5s are a lot thicker than the Anbes 359 but at least I manage to tuck them in the bottom of my ear against the back so they don't move around too much. Actually I wish there was a ChiFi TWE with a large shape that would fill in my ear, like the KZ wired IEMs, pro-IEM style. Sure they would be larger but that would provide a more secure fit it seems...


----------



## msooffutt

hifi80sman said:


> Cancelled my Amazon order and decided to go to the Apple Store to pick up the AirPods Pro instead.  Naturally, I compared them to my Sony, with mixed results.
> 
> - AirPods Pro are more comfortable.
> - Call quality is far better.
> ...


This is the same conclusion I came up with as well.  I plan on keeping them over the Sony’s however.  My reason is I need a solid and reliable earphone for work purposes.  The Sony sound great but Sony really needs to tighten things up with the firmware.  I doubt they will.  They like to save that for newer models.  I had issues of it not always answering the phone and constant reconnect issues where I would have to sometimes put them back in their case and take back out to get them to connect.  Not a big deal for around the house but a pain to deal with at work.  If the pros perform like the originals, and they seems to so far, I shouldn’t have many issues.  And the transparency is the best of any others I have tried.


----------



## mjb152

liberty 2 £79.99 amazon  https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B07SHGN942
or liberty 2 pro £149  ?
or wait for 11/11 ?


----------



## rhsauer

webvan said:


> Would be interested in your feedback if you get them. Be aware that they only have Forcefeed ANC though (Sony or APP or Track Air+) have Feedback ANC too so will be less efficient, which is consistent with the feedback here and in reviews where the ANC has been decribed as "mild".
> 
> How do you find the fit and the isolation of the MW07 GO ?
> 
> @rhsauer - how did the ANC testing in the tube go with your APP and Echo Buds ?



They both do a nice job making the subway ride much more pleasant and the music I'm listening to much easier to hear.  As I mentioned before, the better ANC on the AirPods is largely offset by the better passive isolation of the Amazon Echo Buds.  The Echo Buds sound better the longer I listen to them -- they're a completely reasonable alternative to the APP. It just took me a while to find tips that worked for me with the Echo Buds.


----------



## rhsauer

msooffutt said:


> This is the same conclusion I came up with as well.  I plan on keeping them over the Sony’s however.  My reason is I need a solid and reliable earphone for work purposes.  The Sony sound great but Sony really needs to tighten things up with the firmware.  I doubt they will.  They like to save that for newer models.  I had issues of it not always answering the phone and constant reconnect issues where I would have to sometimes put them back in their case and take back out to get them to connect.  Not a big deal for around the house but a pain to deal with at work.  If the pros perform like the originals, and they seems to so far, I shouldn’t have many issues.  And the transparency is the best of any others I have tried.



Sony is ostensibly working on a firmware update to improve connectivity issues between the WF-1000XM3 and the iPhone 11 series.


----------



## webvan

rhsauer said:


> They both do a nice job making the subway ride much more pleasant and the music I'm listening to much easier to hear.  As I mentioned before, the better ANC on the AirPods is largely offset by the better passive isolation of the Amazon Echo Buds.  The Echo Buds sound better the longer I listen to them -- they're a completely reasonable alternative to the APP. It just took me a while to find tips that worked for me with the Echo Buds.


What tips did you end up using ? What's nice about the APPs is that you drop them in and job done, no need to worry about twisting them, pushing them in, checking the seal, etc...

It seems that despite the fact that Amazon (and Bose) went to some lengths to call it "noise reduction" and not "noise cancellation" they do a good job. Would you say better than the MW07 Plus ? These are in fact "half ANC" since they're "Forcefeed ANC" only not "Forcefeed+Feedback". The mysteries of marketing


----------



## msooffutt

rhsauer said:


> Sony is ostensibly working on a firmware update to improve connectivity issues between the WF-1000XM3 and the iPhone 11 series.


Thanks for the heads up.  Maybe I’ll wait until then before I decide to sell them.  They aren’t bad earphones, but Sony doesn’t always have the best track record.  I had the wf-1000’s and at the time they were probably the best sounding true wireless, but they never really fixed the connection issues with those.  You have to turn off everything for them to function right.  I’ll admit that the newer ones aren’t as bad as those, but I’ll believe it when it happens.


----------



## rhsauer

webvan said:


> What tips did you end up using ? What's nice about the APPs is that you drop them in and job done, no need to worry about twisting them, pushing them in, checking the seal, etc...
> 
> It seems that despite the fact that Amazon (and Bose) went to some lengths to call it "noise reduction" and not "noise cancellation" they do a good job. Would you say better than the MW07 Plus ? These are in fact "half ANC" since they're "Forcefeed ANC" only not "Forcefeed+Feedback". The mysteries of marketing



On the Amazon Echo Buds, I ended up using the large silicon tips that came with the Jabra Elite Active (their older IEM).  I was using the large tips that came with the Jabra 65t, but they got uncomfortable after a while.  The ones I'm using now are perfect.  The noise reduction on the Amazon Echo Buds is more effective than the ANC on the MW07+, perhaps significantly so.  Again, the passive noise reduction inherent in their design makes a big difference.


----------



## webvan

Exactly the tips I pulled out for the T5s/M5s, they're good aren't they ! Good to hear that the ANC in the echo buds works well, in spite of the "marketing talk" playing it down, will be looking forward to trying them out when they make it to Europe.


----------



## howdy

hifi80sman said:


> Cancelled my Amazon order and decided to go to the Apple Store to pick up the AirPods Pro instead.  Naturally, I compared them to my Sony, with mixed results.
> 
> - AirPods Pro are more comfortable.
> - Call quality is far better.
> ...


Since your going to the Apple store anyway, you should give the power beats a try. I'm really liking these, they are comfortable and stay in place and very low profile for outside use.


----------



## n20nine

howdy said:


> Since your going to the Apple store anyway, you should give the power beats a try. I'm really liking these, they are comfortable and stay in place and very low profile for outside use.



I had them on an interim basis whilst my BeatsX were being replaced by Apple. They are quite large, no? I suppose it's what you are okay with. However, I definitely found the case too thick to be put into your pocket.


----------



## rage3324

I got the Airpods Pro (never owned airpods prior to this) and I was immediately impressed by the ease of set up and use. Very impressive. The build quality is great except for the tips. I find the tips to feel a little cheap and a little tough to get off (I feel like I am going to rip them). With that being said, the isolation and ANC is very good. I always found that IEMs do a comparable job of filtering out voices as over the ear ANC headphones. Toss ANC into IEMs and the effect is fantastic. Probably better than my Sony XM2 (for voices). So far, I am impressed with the ANC, ease of use, fit and comfort.

I find the sound to be a bit thin and the bass to be a bit lacking. If I go back and forth between my copper turbine's and the airpods, the difference in SQ is very apparent. This is to be expected, but still I am a little disappointed. Maybe I need to keep playing the different size tips. At the end of the day, these are for work trips, phone calls, on the move activities and not for use on the plane (my XM2 are for that) so I can probably live with the SQ as is


----------



## cn11

I've been able to connect the BT20 to any computer/ device I've tried, and it's been pretty reliable. Only getting periodic 1-sec or so dropouts on my work Mac, but not very often at all. I've really been pleasantly surprised by the whole experience, and having no cables is exceedingly more enjoyable than I anticipated. The most surprising thing so far is how nice this setup sounds with my Sony WM1A. I mean, it's such a huge, detailed, environment of sonic details... incredible. I was expecting a marked degradation in SQ over wired with any device paired up to. But it's the opposite with the WM1A.


----------



## howdy

n20nine said:


> I had them on an interim basis whilst my BeatsX were being replaced by Apple. They are quite large, no? I suppose it's what you are okay with. However, I definitely found the case too thick to be put into your pocket.


If I go to the store with them on I leave the case at home. As for the size, they are bigger than most but, when you have them on they sit rather flush to your ears. I like the slick design of these and everything works well. There is a button on it and it's really easy to push and they won't go further in to your ear when you push the button like a lot of other brands


----------



## srinivasvignesh

Some information on Noble Falcon in case it has not been seen. Apologies if posted earlier....


----------



## Macaronibchan

I was previously using the QCY T1S but have lost the charging case for it. Now I’m in the market for a new pair of wireless IEMs and saw the QCY T5. Anyone have experience with them? Particularly in terms of the call quality (T1S was terrible in picking up sound).

Alternatively, any good recommendations for wireless IEMs in that particular price range? Thanks


----------



## Grayson73

actorlife said:


> SI've been out of the loop for a little while as far as the newest updates in TWS (and more specifically budget options).
> 
> I've had the Anbes 359 (seems like I got one of the last pairs) since earlier this year and LOVE them. They are such a versatile, great sounding pair and I'm completely satisfied with them. However, one of the little rubber pads fell off, and while I managed to glue it back on, it made me think that it might be time to get something new.
> 
> ...


*If you like the Anbes with more bass get these I also did a review. Check my sig: Bluetooth Earbuds Wireless Earbuds Bluetooth Earphones Wireless Headphones, OFUSHO Bluetooth 5.0 Deep Bass 152H Playtime IPX7 Waterproof TWS Stereo in-Ear Headphones with Charging Case, CVC8.0 Apt-X https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07VD3M6M3/ref=cm_sw_r_sms_apa_i_LZ2UDbXBQNTM6*[/QUOTE]

If you're in the U.S., get the SSK instead of the Kissral R18.  It's almost half the price at $21.

https://www.amazon.com/SSK-Bluetooth-Headphones-Sweatproof-Microphone/dp/B07R8TPND5


----------



## Grayson73

webvan said:


> Like I wrote this morning the soundstage of the Anbes 359 is almost TOO wide making it had to the (my) brain to put the two sides together. I prefer the T5/M5, too bad my right bud has that high noise floor between tracks...
> 
> 
> Gonna have to sit tight Klaus !



Oh, I was responding to mattedialdoc's comment that the Mpow T5 had a wider soundstage than the SSK because I found the opposite to be true, which is also what you're saying.  Different ears!  He said "I think the Bomaker and MPow have deeper bass, wider soundstage, and sharper highs and mids than the SSK. They are a little more expensive...but under $50."


----------



## Bartig

I've just dropped my bomb. The Apple AirPods Pro compared to 16 much cheaper wireless earphones. Enjoy!


----------



## AtariPrime

Bartig said:


> I've just dropped my bomb. The Apple AirPods Pro compared to 16 much cheaper wireless earphones. Enjoy!



Well put together write-up.  Would like to have seen more conclusions though.

For me, your comments with respect to the Creative Outlier Gold sum up the whole conversation.  The Outlier's sound better, have far better battery life, are more compact, and cost less than half the price.  The only reason why the AirPods are part of the conversation is because they are made by Apple.  It's like Bose, a mediocre brand that sometimes makes decent stuff.  Never the best, never the worst, but always at a premium cost regardless.


----------



## eXKey

Guys. Just found the Sony WF-1000XM3 for € 130..shall I go for it ?


----------



## hifi80sman

howdy said:


> Since your going to the Apple store anyway, you should give the power beats a try. I'm really liking these, they are comfortable and stay in place and very low profile for outside use.


Yeah, the only thing is I just don't like the around-ear design.  I guess my ears are just a little sensitive.


----------



## hifi80sman

eXKey said:


> Guys. Just found the Sony WF-1000XM3 for € 130..shall I go for it ?


Depends on what you plan to use them for.  Heavy aerobic exercise?  Would advise against, since they have no IP rating and will probably fall out.  Gym, but mostly weight training?  Perfectly fine, as I use them for that purpose frequently.

They are a good "lifestyle" product that can dull noise at the gym, coffee shop, airplane, car, bus, etc.  To me, the sound is very good and can be EQd via the Sony Headphone App to your preferences.  The only thing is the fit can be challenging on some people, but I had good success with the L tips provided.


----------



## eXKey

hifi80sman said:


> Depends on what you plan to use them for.  Heavy aerobic exercise?  Would advise against, since they have no IP rating and will probably fall out.  Gym, but mostly weight training?  Perfectly fine, as I use them for that purpose frequently.
> 
> They are a good "lifestyle" product that can dull noise at the gym, coffee shop, airplane, car, bus, etc.  To me, the sound is very good and can be EQd via the Sony Headphone App to your preferences.  The only thing is the fit can be challenging on some people, but I had good success with the L tips provided.


It's going to be my first dip into tws. Was going to mainly use them for calls and commuting. I was eyeing the shanling mtw 100 but after shipping etc. they would come out to € 99 so would be only 20 less than the sony's..what to do, what to do


----------



## DDDYKI

AtariPrime said:


> Well put together write-up.  Would like to have seen more conclusions though.
> 
> For me, your comments with respect to the Creative Outlier Gold sum up the whole conversation.  The Outlier's sound better, have far better battery life, are more compact, and cost less than half the price.  The only reason why the AirPods are part of the conversation is because they are made by Apple.  It's like Bose, a mediocre brand that sometimes makes decent stuff.  Never the best, never the worst, but always at a premium cost regardless.


If the APP had half the connectivity problems of the Outlier Air (I didn't have the Gold), there'd be heads rolling at Apple.


----------



## mattedialdoc

Grayson73 said:


> Oh, I was responding to mattedialdoc's comment that the Mpow T5 had a wider soundstage than the SSK because I found the opposite to be true, which is also what you're saying.  Different ears!  He said "I think the Bomaker and MPow have deeper bass, wider soundstage, and sharper highs and mids than the SSK. They are a little more expensive...but under $50."



yeah, that was me
I could go back and listen some more if I’m an outlier. But I also have the new Soundcores, and except for the hissing they sound amazing. I’m sending them back though, because I don’t like the form factor as much. I have a pair of AirPods Pro coming.


----------



## webvan

I was looking into the Soundcores but their design reminds me of the Sony WF-1000Xm3s and I really didn't like it, looks really goofy with these "modules" sticking out, is it as bad as it looks in the pics ? Besides it's been said here that isolation is poor so I'll pass.


----------



## hifi80sman

eXKey said:


> It's going to be my first dip into tws. Was going to mainly use them for calls and commuting. I was eyeing the shanling mtw 100 but after shipping etc. they would come out to € 99 so would be only 20 less than the sony's..what to do, what to do


Wouldn't recommend if calls are a high priority.  They work for calls, but your voice will come across a bit muffled.  Not the worst, but certainly not the best.  If sound quality is not a top priority for you, then the AirPods Pro seems like a good fit for your purposes.


----------



## msooffutt

Bartig said:


> I've just dropped my bomb. The Apple AirPods Pro compared to 16 much cheaper wireless earphones. Enjoy!


Nice review.  Just a comment on the app pro controls.  Do you know whether or not you’re on the latest firmware?  When I first got mine, I also thought the controls were kind of terrible, but after the firmware update they are pretty spot on.  I’m not sure if it was the firmware or I just got used to how they work, but they don’t miss now.


----------



## albau

New Strauss and Wagner SW-TW401 review by MajorHiFi. For $60 they gave it Gold rating. https://majorhifi.com/strauss-wagne...-92764177&mc_cid=d049848bc3&mc_eid=4af64a4f49


----------



## mattedialdoc

mattedialdoc said:


> yeah, that was me
> I could go back and listen some more if I’m an outlier. But I also have the new Soundcores, and except for the hissing they sound amazing. I’m sending them back though, because I don’t like the form factor as much. I have a pair of AirPods Pro coming.



Ok I take it back. The SSK kick a$$.


----------



## mikp

albau said:


> New Strauss and Wagner SW-TW401 review by MajorHiFi. For $60 they gave it Gold rating. https://majorhifi.com/strauss-wagne...-92764177&mc_cid=d049848bc3&mc_eid=4af64a4f49




ha, majorhifi and Audio46 again..


----------



## albau

mikp said:


> ha, majorhifi and Audio46 again..


Is it something infamous? I'm not in the know.


----------



## dweaver

Well Liberty 2 Pro are now available in Canada at $199CAD. So now I start saving and make my final decision.

As much as I like ANC at times, it always has issues in wind even with settings like wind reduction from Sony. So I am a bit reluctant to buy the WF-1000XM3 but to mention they are $300CAD.

I am willing to try the Echo Buds as they are very low profile and have ANC but I worry a bit about BA only sound as I generally prefer either a Dynamic only or hybrid driver solution for sound.

I like the look of the new Jabra 75T but suspect they won't have good enough sound quality.

Which brings me back around to the L2P, while I think it might be a bit big, I have more confidence in its audio quality, call quality, and over all design and battery life. It just ticks alot of the right boxes for me aside from size and lack of ANC or ambient sound modes. I think I will have to go L2P...


----------



## jerboa123

Just wanted to add my 2 cents about the Airpod Pros.  First, I am not an Apple fan.  In fact, I've never purchased nor wanted any Apple products.  I much prefer the very open Android ecosystem.  My phone is a Google Pixel 4 XL.

With that, the Airpod pros are the best TWS earphones that I've used (and that includes several, Anbes, Jabra 65t, etc...).  The ANC is dramatic.  When you first put them in your ears, before pairing, they are by default in ANC mode when they turn on.  And all of a sudden the noise in my room (deep air conditioner sound) just went near silent.  It was dramatic (but in a very good way), like the sound in a movie when someone has a panic attack and everything goes silent.

The case is 2/3 the size of the Anbes UFO.  The earbuds are very comfortable and light.  They don't stick an inch out of your ear, like a Frankenstein electrode (Samsung, Amazon, Jabra, and others).  The stem (which is now shorter) has the new pinch sensor, which works great and is very convenient.

Again, this is from someone who does not like Apple products and is using them with a Google Pixel.  There is not another product out there right now that can come close.  But obviously all of that comes at a fairly steep price.  And if you are an audiophile for whom size/comfort/ANC are not as important to you, you may want to look elsewhere.  The sound quality is very good, but won't blow you away (Anbes sound a little better to me).

Just sharing, if it helps anyone out.


----------



## clerkpalmer

jerboa123 said:


> The sound quality is very good, but won't blow you away (Anbes sound a little better to me)



I agree with you but this is the heart of the issue:  how is it that $40 chi fi can sound similar or better than $250 apple buds.  Couldn't apple do better?


----------



## genck

clerkpalmer said:


> I agree with you but this is the heart of the issue:  how is it that $40 chi fi can sound similar or better than $250 apple buds.  Couldn't apple do better?


They don't need to do better, fanboys would buy a polished turd anytime as long as it from Apple. Success in sales doesn't equate to sound quality, see Beats.


----------



## mattedialdoc

jerboa123 said:


> Just wanted to add my 2 cents about the Airpod Pros.  First, I am not an Apple fan.  In fact, I've never purchased nor wanted any Apple products.  I much prefer the very open Android ecosystem.  My phone is a Google Pixel 4 XL.
> 
> With that, the Airpod pros are the best TWS earphones that I've used (and that includes several, Anbes, Jabra 65t, etc...).  The ANC is dramatic.  When you first put them in your ears, before pairing, they are by default in ANC mode when they turn on.  And all of a sudden the noise in my room (deep air conditioner sound) just went near silent.  It was dramatic (but in a very good way), like the sound in a movie when someone has a panic attack and everything goes silent.
> 
> ...



This is a great unbiased comment. Thank you. I can’t wait for mine to arrive.


----------



## mattedialdoc

genck said:


> They don't need to do better, fanboys would buy a polished turd anytime as long as it from Apple. Success in sales doesn't equate to sound quality, see Beats.



Is this where we add “ And haters gonna hate”?
I’m no fanboy, but I do like the seamless integration. I haven’t heard them yet, but if they give me 80-90% of SQ plus all the other attributes, and I’m ok w the price, sounds like a slamdunk.


----------



## d3myz

carlosonunez said:


> The AirPods Pro are proving that there was always a market for $250 headphones given a desirable-enough product. These are currently backordered several weeks out.
> 
> I actually feel really bad for Bragi here because they were many years ahead of Apple when they dropped the Dash in 2014 (ambient mode, passive noise cancellation, in-ear, waterproof), but very few people thought they were worth their $350 asking price and, unlike Apple, they didn't have infinite money to fall back on.


All this proves is that the general public is severely uneducated when it comes to TWS and they'll buy anything Apple puts out. I've commented on several Air Pod Pro Youtube reviews and half of these dudes have never ever heard of the Sony WF-1000MX3, Liberty 2 Pro , MW07+ or any of the other medium/ high end TWS' available. Apple's marketing obviously reaches much further, but Look at the MBP and the Iphone, How many people spend money they don't have for a $1000-3000 Phone or Laptop, when you can get a comparable product for half the price? Don't get me wrong I love my iphone, Ipad etc. and i'm heavily invested in Apple's ecosystem but i'm all about the best product for the money and the reality is that many of Apple's products do not fall in to that category, and for $250 they Air Pods Pro are included.


----------



## jant71 (Nov 1, 2019)

Not sure if you all saw but new Nuarl coming...





The NUARL N6 series is equipped with the NUARL DRIVER [N6] , a 6.0mm dynamic full range driver with the highest grade neodymium magnet and a unique magnetic circuit with reduced heat demagnetization during long-term drive. It combines two types of composite vibrating membranes that have been newly developed with an emphasis on sound quality. Two models of the N6 and N6 Pro are available.

 The base model, the N6, adopts the NUARL DRIVER [N6]v3, which uses a PTT multilayer film diaphragm with TPE and titanium film deposition on the surface of a PEEK vibrating film with excellent rigidity and elasticity. It is said to play a powerful sound with a sharp from the high to the low. The body color is gloss black and silver.

The N6 Pro uses the NUARL DRIVER [N6]v5, which uses a single-walled carbon nanotube with high mechanical strength and excellent energy conversion efficiency, and the SWCNT composite diaphragm, which is vacuum deposited and bonded with two vibrating membranes. It is tuned to a flat sound quality and can reproduce even fine small sounds. The body color is matte black and red copper.

The driver is modularized in a metal housing and combined with a DSP with a built-in SoC to perform delicate sound quality tuning using analog and digital tones. In addition, t.B.I's patented technology "HDSS" will be adopted to realize the spread of natural sound with thickness and three-dimensional feeling.

 Bluetooth is version 5.0, profile corresponds to A2DP/HFP/HSP/AVRCP, codec is SBC/AAC/aptX. The continuous playback time of the earphone alone is about 11 hours at the time of SBC/AAC playback, and about 8 hours at the time of aptX playback. It can be used for up to 55 hours in combination with the charging case, and the charging terminal adopts USB Type-C.

Battery is good at 11 and 8 for aptx but I like the 3 buttons. We need more 3 buttons since it is painfully obvious and we probably should be done with convoluted controls and triple pressing by now   No TWS on this one though. It senses the battery levels and rotates master to even the battery discharge. A bit odd since the new NT01AA will be TWS,  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Lower price, graphite diaphragm, less accessories 10 horse per charge and only 35 hours total battery life.


----------



## d3myz

genck said:


> They don't need to do better, fanboys would buy a polished turd anytime as long as it from Apple. Success in sales doesn't equate to sound quality, see Beats.


I'm with you. I turned my $900 Dell XPS into a $3500 Mac Book Pro and it runs Mojave and Windows 10 like a boss. I have 2 apple TV's and my $25 Prime Day Deal Fire TV 4k is so much easier to use and all around faster then both my ATV's. Just because it's Apple doesn't mean your getting the best or even a great product, it just means you going to pay Mercedes Benz pricing. Sorry for the off topic. I won't be getting the APP's either. Waiting on deliver of my Advanced M5's.


----------



## Minarets

Grayson73 said:


> Oh, I was responding to mattedialdoc's comment that the Mpow T5 had a wider soundstage than the SSK because I found the opposite to be true, which is also what you're saying.  Different ears!  He said "I think the Bomaker and MPow have deeper bass, wider soundstage, and sharper highs and mids than the SSK. They are a little more expensive...but under $50."





jant71 said:


> Not sure if you all saw but new Nuarl coming...
> 
> 
> 
> ...




how much?


----------



## jant71

NT01 model will be $109. N6 and Pro no set price I could see just yet. Obviously more than the NT01A's.


----------



## Minarets

d3myz said:


> All this proves is that the general public is severely uneducated when it comes to TWS and they'll buy anything Apple puts out. I've commented on several Air Pod Pro Youtube reviews and half of these dudes have never ever heard of the Sony WF-1000MX3, Liberty 2 Pro , MW07+ or any of the other medium/ high end TWS' available. Apple's marketing obviously reaches much further, but Look at the MBP and the Iphone, How many people spend money they don't have for a $1000-3000 Phone or Laptop, when you can get a comparable product for half the price? Don't get me wrong I love my iphone, Ipad etc. and i'm heavily invested in Apple's ecosystem but i'm all about the best product for the money and the reality is that many of Apple's products do not fall in to that category, and for $250 they Air Pods Pro are included.



I’ve said it before in here but the APP aren’t the best in any category.  Sound, ANC, price, size, but damn if they are the best all around. 
It’s all what’s important to you.  If you want the best sound, plenty to choose from.  If you want the best ANC, get ya some Sony’s, if you want cheap, plenty of Chi-fi’s out there.  If you want small, again, a litany of options. 
But the APP does everything very well.  Sound isn’t the Best, but’s it’s very good. ANC, pretty damn good and offered transparency that is very good. The integration probably is the best for iPhone users.  Nothing works as seamless as they do.  

These things are very good at what they do. Very few true competitors as they do everything really really well.  These aren’t some janky buds that people are paying a premium for that swear they are the greatest.  But it’s folks saying it checks more boxes than most is a really small pkg.


----------



## msooffutt

Minarets said:


> I’ve said it before in here but the APP aren’t the best in any category.  Sound, ANC, price, size, but damn if they are the best all around.
> It’s all what’s important to you.  If you want the best sound, plenty to choose from.  If you want the best ANC, get ya some Sony’s, if you want cheap, plenty of Chi-fi’s out there.  If you want small, again, a litany of options.
> But the APP does everything very well.  Sound isn’t the Best, but’s it’s very good. ANC, pretty damn good and offered transparency that is very good. The integration probably is the best for iPhone users.  Nothing works as seamless as they do.
> 
> These things are very good at what they do. Very few true competitors as they do everything really really well.  These aren’t some janky buds that people are paying a premium for that swear they are the greatest.  But it’s folks saying it checks more boxes than most is a really small pkg.


I was just about to say the same thing.  I have a lot of the popular brands mentioned on here and would trade all of them for the pros.  I get that not everyone needs what the app pro has to offer, but that’s what’s great with all of the variety.  I like the app pros because it does everything I have wanted in true wireless.  Having them sound like my Sony’s or wm07’s would have been nice, but they come close enough. The more I listen the more I like them.


----------



## FYLegend

mikp said:


> ha, majorhifi and Audio46 again..


Odd that Audio46 had a review yesterday but they made it private later (and they left the Korean one up)... I didn't get to watch it but the shell and case look generic, not sure about the drivers though. They look a bit like one of the Aliexpress Type-C case earbuds and to a lesser extent the Wavefun X-Pods 3/YTOM T1.

Curious to get the YTOM T1 Pro which goes on sale 11.11, although the impressions here have been quite varied with some calling them flat and others saying they're muddy...

Has anyone stumbled across where to buy a white Sabbat E12 Ultra? I stumbled across this list of TWS from a Taiwanese channel showing a white E12 and X12:


Here's a TWS from Momax with Type-C charging but not much else standing out except some "nice" colours. In Taiwan I saw quite a few stores sell their power banks and chargers.
http://www.momax.net/product/true-wireless-bluetooth-earbuds-charging-case/


----------



## jasaero

mattedialdoc said:


> Ok I take it back. The SSK kick a$$.



Haha.  I find it funny how universally acclaimed these generic $22 chicom buds are for SQ.  I have them also and totally agree with all the acclaim.


----------



## mattedialdoc

jasaero said:


> Haha.  I find it funny how universally acclaimed these generic $22 chicom buds are for SQ.  I have them also and totally agree with all the acclaim.





jasaero said:


> Haha.  I find it funny how universally acclaimed these generic $22 chicom buds are for SQ.  I have them also and totally agree with all the acclaim.



And...I just saw Bart gave them FIVE stars/Excellent...only 10 of 58 he’s reviewed got that!


----------



## stacey

Eh, price =/= SQ.  I had an old pair of RE0s that sounded better than IEMs 10x it's price, and I copped them for $80.  That was a good buy lol.


----------



## jasaero

stacey said:


> Eh, price =/= SQ.  I had an old pair of RE0s that sounded better than IEMs 10x it's price, and I copped them for $80.  That was a good buy lol.



I find this becomes particularly true with in ears vs other headphones or even more speakers.  I don't think there are as great of ways to add cost for SQ in such a product as exist for something like speakers.


----------



## Timastyle

Got the SSK in tonight. I'm really enjoying them so far. Think it would be best if I could find a better tip in L to try. Any suggestions on one that'll fit the case? Not looking for foam though. 

These don't have quite the thump as the Melomania but they have a great sound and the volume is much better.


----------



## d3myz (Nov 1, 2019)

Timastyle said:


> Got the SSK in tonight. I'm really enjoying them so far. Think it would be best if I could find a better tip in L to try. Any suggestions on one that'll fit the case? Not looking for foam though.
> 
> These don't have quite the thump as the Melomania but they have a great sound and the volume is much better.


I'm a huge fan of the JVC spiral dot. The spinfit 360's fit really well, but  I feel they alter the sound quality to me and make my TWS's sound more smooshed. towards the mid range. You get more bass out of them, but it's more high sub/ Low Mid bass IMO.


----------



## riodgarp

has anyone experience when change track both via tws or via player then the volume seems turned down ?


----------



## tinyman392

stacey said:


> Eh, price =/= SQ.  I had an old pair of RE0s that sounded better than IEMs 10x it's price, and I copped them for $80.  That was a good buy lol.



The RE0 are good, but they aren't that good.  Maybe better or as good as stuff 2, possibly 3x it's price, definitely not 10 though.


----------



## geoxile

srinivasvignesh said:


> Some information on Noble Falcon in case it has not been seen. Apologies if posted earlier....


Whoa, is this an actual (kind of) programmable set of earphones? Do you have them on hand to give a review?


----------



## tinyman392

Initial Impressions of the Apple AirPods Pro

I’ve had the AirPods for a little over 48 hours now.  TWS headphones have been somewhat of an interest of mine.  In terms of my lineup of headphones I’ve tried/have are the Apple AirPods, MEE X10, Drop+NuForce Move, B&W E8, Phiaton Bolt, Sony WF1000X.  The AirPods Pro are the latest addition to the set.  I have a tendency to enjoy headphones that are more linear in nature (a la Etymotic) most of the time, though I’ve found myself enjoying some bassy and V-shaped signatures if they are done properly.  

The AirPods Pro offer a bunch of feature that may be of interest to users.  Mainly:

Seal test to ensure a good seal
Improved control scheme
Active noise cancelation/transparency
Improved audio quality 
Active EQ

*Fit, finish, and control*

One of the two features that I was interested in with the AirPod Pros was Apple’s seal test implementation.  I’ve always been a fan of the Sensaphonics Seal Test to ensure that I had a good seal.  If I was ever unsure, that test would always give me a definitive answer.  Though I’ve gotten better and just figuring out seal by ear, this was a more objective way to do it (though its still subjective).  

Apple’s test seemed like something that didn’t seem like it was impossible.  Well, I made a comment earlier in the thread to test other tips even the seal test told you had a good seal after I figured out the mediums were better than the small tips for my ears.  I stand by it, for the sake of testing it, I tested all 3 tips in their seal test.  Apparently I have perfect ears because they all seal well.  Medium seals better than small which is better than large.  I feel like although Apple’s test is “good enough”, it won’t give you the optimal tip selection and that still needs to be dealt with using some tip rolling.

In terms of looks, they’re white and look Apple-esque.  There’s not much more to say about them.  The headphones are popular enough where people will notice them not only as AirPods, but the “new ones”.  

One of the happy additions to the AirPods Pro is actually the force strip thingy.  It’s pressure sensitive and the headphone makes a “click” noise when you press it.  Sometimes the click isn’t loud enough and you’re left in confusion on whether or not you clicked it.  I personally would rather have the “click” noise, but some haptic feedback, Taptic engine anyone?  I don’t really see this as a possibility, but it would be nice to have.  It would legitimately make it feel like a button without having a moving part.  With all that said, the strip is truly force based and not capacitive as it works flawlessly with gloves or the like covering your hands, as they should.  

In terms of comfort, the AirPods are quite comfortable, but not unlike any other TWS I own.  They still require a pretty deep insertion depth (as deep as the tips allow anyway) to get good bass response out, so they don’t quite disappear from my ears.  But they are the first ported design to feel open back (with transparency or ANC on) due to the way it cancels out ear canal noise (more on that below).  

All in all, Apple’s seal test can use a lot of work as I feel like it hands out false positives quite freely and doesn’t quite work well for everyone.  I can’t confirm it, but I’m sure it’ll give you a strong true negative result, but comes with a pretty high false positive rate.  The control is very well thought out and works great and I’m happy with the fit.  

*Noise Control*

ANC has never really been something I was a fan of in the past.  They would end up changing the signature of the headphone quite a bit (and normally for the worse) and have odd anomalies.  That said, I’m not going to be a strong authority on ANC with these.  The ANC is actually really good and quite impressive.  Part of it is due to the fact that they also cancel out the noise inside of your ear canal which tends to create that sort of stuff sound/feeling you get as well as jaw movements and other head movements.  That said, in terms of canceling out external noise, the AirPods Pro are slightly better than my older Sony WF-1000X (which were well regarded at the time).  

I’ve a lot of headphones that have a transparency setting and have to admit the AirPods Pro kind of seem, well seamless when it comes to it.  With music completely off, the sound you get is extremely close to what you’re expecting to hear as if you didn't have the headphones on.  There is still a slight "processed" sound to it, mainly in your own voice.  It’s pretty amazing for what it is.  Wind noise, however, becomes an issue with the transparency settings.  Even something as small as walking semi-quickly gets you a nice whoosh whoosh to be produced.  I can’t imagine what it would be like running or even biking.  

Overall, the noise control is pretty well executed on the AirPods Pro.  I actually like the ANC feature, something I tend to not like (even on the WF-1000X I have) and the transparency controls are pretty seamless (they just need to deal with the wind noise)

*Audio Quality*

Now I know y’all didn’t come here for my thoughts on fit, finish, UI, ANC, and transparency.  Maybe you didn’t come here to hear my thoughts at all!  (well here I am anyways).  Historically on Head-Fi, it’s been all about the sound.  No matter the fit issues *cough*iSine*cough*, wonky designs *cough*iSine again*cough*, build issues *cough*HiFiMan*cough*, or anything else of the nature, sound quality normally trumped most, though others did influence headphone preferences.  

The easiest way for me to describe the sound is surprisingly linear.  The OG AirPods had a signature that was V-shaped with a strong bass focus which created a somewhat dirty bass response with a veiled midrange.  The Pros deal with both of these really and have a signature I’d consider bright.  It reminds me of a more refined ADDIEM of yesteryear with better bass response.  If you’re looking for a warm or bassy headphone, this isn’t it.  

The bass actually extends quite deep off though it isn’t without a slight roll off.  The low and mid bass have a nice presence and good strong body to it.  Decay isn’t slow, but also isn’t fast.  What results is a bass response that isn’t the tightest, but still clean.  However, the low-end tends to be very one-note and unable to reproduce subtle bass texturing.  Subbass regions also suffers from lack of presence which is unfortunate.  

Going into the midrange, this is the area that surprised me the most (especially with Apple’s most recent headphone offerings severely lacking in this area).  There is strong clarity here with nice timbre and detailing overall.  The headphone is one I’d describe and very vocal and midrange focused producing a lot of energy throughout the entire midrange.  Surprisingly it also provides a pretty good sound stage as well.  It’s not super huge, but it effortlessly creates separation and the idea of distance also comes into play mainly due to a slight airiness to the sound.

The air is going to be the main positive point when it comes to the treble and highs as it’s the one that stands out the most.  The highs are well detailed throughout though don’t really have that sparkle or shine that you’d get with really good treble.  I don’t really get the energy I’d want from the treble, just splashes here and there.  The good news about this somewhat toned down treble is that fact that it is easy to listen to and mostly non-fatiguing.  I know there are people sensitive to highs and feel like these would probably suit them for the most part (if they could get over the energetic midrange).  

I’m quite happy with the sound signature overall and coming from a side that prefers something with a strong midrange, good bass, and non-offensive treble, this really suits my needs from a sound signature perspective.  Of all the TWS headphones I own, I’d say these tie with the B&W E8 and sit right behind the Drop+NuForce Move (there is something truly special about the bass presentation on the Move; it’s almost euphoric).  It’s a far leap from the OG AirPods which I would rank last in terms of sound quality of all the TWS headphones I own.  That being said, that signature is not for everyone.  Like I said earlier, if you're looking for a pair of warm/bassy headphones, I'd stray away from these.  

*Conclusions*

When the AirPods first released, I said that if Apple could just fix the sound signature to something more linear, they’d have a big winner in my books.  Well, Apple delivered with the Pro that adds some pretty nice features to the table.  Some of the features work well, others need some work.  The ANC, even if it’s not top of its class, is no joke and the transparency features are great.  Despite the fact that they aren’t a bargain for what you get, they aren’t a total rip off either, and even at the 250 dollar mark, I could say I recommend them if you can deal with the midrange-focused sound signature they offer.  Just remember to tip roll and insert deeply to get a good sound.


----------



## hifi80sman

dweaver said:


> Well Liberty 2 Pro are now available in Canada at $199CAD. So now I start saving and make my final decision.
> 
> As much as I like ANC at times, it always has issues in wind even with settings like wind reduction from Sony. So I am a bit reluctant to buy the WF-1000XM3 but to mention they are $300CAD.
> 
> ...


I’d recommend you contact Anker to find out if they are the “new version”, which supposedly doesn’t have the hissing issue.


----------



## hifi80sman

clerkpalmer said:


> I agree with you but this is the heart of the issue:  how is it that $40 chi fi can sound similar or better than $250 apple buds.  Couldn't apple do better?


That was my main issue.  I just couldn’t stomach $270 (with tax) for “decent” sound.  I could live with a lot for $25, not so much 10x the cost.


----------



## audio123

My favourite TWS to date. Apple Airpods Pro, Sony WF-1000XM3, Aviot TE-D01d, Lypertek Tevi


----------



## XGUGU

audio123 said:


> My favourite TWS to date. Apple Airpods Pro, Sony WF-1000XM3, Aviot TE-D01d, Lypertek Tevi


Nice,  how do you find the  XM3 and Tevi compare sound wise?


----------



## audio123 (Nov 2, 2019)

XGUGU said:


> Nice,  how do you find the  XM3 and Tevi compare sound wise?


The WF-1000XM3 is better than the Tevi for sure with higher level of details retrieval and more precise articulation but it is more expensive. The Tevi at its price is a no-brainer. If you want the whole package, get the Sony WF-1000XM3 or Apple Airpods Pro. Cheers!


----------



## Caipirina

Sooooo tempting!!!!

pika pika


----------



## udd3n

I got a pair of sennheiser momentum true wireless and sometimes when I power up something or get static from something I get this weird static in the earphones at the same time.

Anyone else that gets any weird sounds when you get a static electric shock from something? Got a handful of them when doing laundry the other night.. You know when your electrically loaded and touch something metal and there's a small lightning.. That's when the sound is In the earphones.


----------



## Dobrescu George

If anyone is curious about the new Lypertek Tevi, I made a full video about them


----------



## Jules7

hifi80sman said:


> @Bartig has a pretty good site that may help you out.
> https://www.scarbir.com/truewireless
> 
> However, if this is you below and you've already viewed the site, then I'd recommend:
> ...



I'm currently looking at getting a decent TWS around 100 dollars for mostly music and some videos. 
May I know if there are any delays/latency while watching videos with the T10 and Liberty Air 2? Also, if the 2 pairs were the same price, which would be the better one for Musics? Thanks!


----------



## Dobrescu George

Jules7 said:


> I'm currently looking at getting a decent TWS around 100 dollars for mostly music and some videos.
> May I know if there are any delays/latency while watching videos with the T10 and Liberty Air 2? Also, if the 2 pairs were the same price, which would be the better one for Musics? Thanks!



Why not consider Lpyertek Tevi? They are great with a V-Shaped sig, and they have no delay when watching videos, As far as I can tell


----------



## webvan

So I ran with the APPs yesterday and found they worked best in "No ANC" mode as I thought I heard some slight distortion in ANC and in Ambient, well, noise comes through and I have the X12 for that. In "No Anc" the familiar 'IEM Thump" was still there contrary to claims to the contrary (the "vent"...) maybe a tad less pronounced than with other IEMs but let's be real, if your ear canal is sealed there IS going to be a thump, no wriggling out of that. At the end of my run I switched back to my trusty Sabbat X12 with added foam for comfort and I though they worked better, no thump and nothing sticking out.



jerboa123 said:


> Just wanted to add my 2 cents about the Airpod Pros.  First, I am not an Apple fan.  In fact, I've never purchased nor wanted any Apple products.  I much prefer the very open Android ecosystem.  My phone is a Google Pixel 4 XL.
> 
> With that, the Airpod pros are the best TWS earphones that I've used (and that includes several, Anbes, Jabra 65t, etc...).  The ANC is dramatic.  When you first put them in your ears, before pairing, they are by default in ANC mode when they turn on.  And all of a sudden the noise in my room (deep air conditioner sound) just went near silent.  It was dramatic (but in a very good way), like the sound in a movie when someone has a panic attack and everything goes silent.
> 
> ...



Agreed on all counts. One thing I'd stress about the APPs too is that they are SO EASY to fit, just drop them in your ears, job done. Out of the (way too) many IEMs/TWEs I've used over the years, just like earbud designs (EarPods, Sabbat X12, etc...) they are the only ones that can just be dropped in with absolutely no fiddling necessary to get a seal, let alone maintain it, and can be worn for hours on end without any discomfort. They should all be like that honestly !


----------



## rhsauer (Nov 2, 2019)

The eartip fit test on my AirPod Pros seems to have stopped working. Two days ago it consistently reported a good fit. Today, I fail the test every single time. I’m using the exact same tips (large) — and the exact same ears 

The fit seems fine to me, and the bass response is great.  Thoughts?


----------



## Caipirina

webvan said:


> the familiar 'IEM Thump" was still there



I've seen sellers on AliX call it the 'stethoscope effect'  

are your X12 bt5? I know we both have the Lezii version, and mine is only 4.2 and sucks at connection, hence I am thinking about getting the latest Sabbath X12 ultra on 11.11, though I am really not a fan of those colors


----------



## Caipirina

rhsauer said:


> The eartip fit test on my AirPod Pros seems to have stopped working. Two days ago it consistently reported a good fit. Today, I fail the test every single time. I’m using the exact same tips (large) — and the exact same ears
> 
> The fit seems fine to me, and the bass response is great.  Thoughts?



Clearly your ears have changed


----------



## howdy (Nov 2, 2019)

@hifi80sman
The wife and I have a fun time guessing your new Avatars, this one had us a bit stumped. Is it Ronnie James Dio or Weird Al.


----------



## LordToneeus

howdy said:


> @hifi80sman
> The wife and I have a fun time guessing your new Avatars, this one had us a bit stumped. Is it Ronnie James Dio or Weird Al.



That’s Klaus Meine, and he will rock you like a hurricane!


----------



## howdy

LordToneeus said:


> That’s Klaus Meine, and he will rock you like a hurricane!


Yeah, I never saw that at first.  That was the only song I knew how to play on guitar.


----------



## clerkpalmer

The verge gave APP a 9 which is the highest I've seen them give a tw headset to date.  Not suggesting the verge is the end all be all but they think the ANC is on par with the sony and SQ possibly slightly worse.


rhsauer said:


> The eartip fit test on my AirPod Pros seems to have stopped working. Two days ago it consistently reported a good fit. Today, I fail the test every single time. I’m using the exact same tips (large) — and the exact same ears
> 
> The fit seems fine to me, and the bass response is great.  Thoughts?



Maybe restart your phone or unpair them and forget them and connect again? Weird.


----------



## Jules7

Dobrescu George said:


> Why not consider Lpyertek Tevi? They are great with a V-Shaped sig, and they have no delay when watching videos, As far as I can tell


Thanks for the suggestion, were you using it with Android or iPhone when watching videos? I read somewhere that aptx has lower latency compared to aac. 
I will mainly be using TWS earbuds with my iphone (Music) and iPad (Movies, Youtube etc).


----------



## webvan

Caipirina said:


> I've seen sellers on AliX call it the 'stethoscope effect'
> 
> are your X12 bt5? I know we both have the Lezii version, and mine is only 4.2 and sucks at connection, hence I am thinking about getting the latest Sabbath X12 ultra on 11.11, though I am really not a fan of those colors



"stethoscope" would be more for cable noise possibly, but it's just as annoying yes !
Not 5.0 and while the connection is good most of the time, there are some areas where it's really bad yes, haven't figured out why. Hadn't thought of getting the 5.0 version (and QCC3020) to see if that was improved. I had the "camo" in my basket at Amazon for 29€ the other day but since they were for backup purposes I wasn't in a hurry and now they're no longer available. What's the best price you've seen on Ali for 11.11 ?


----------



## webvan

clerkpalmer said:


> The verge gave APP a 9 which is the highest I've seen them give a tw headset to date.  Not suggesting the verge is the end all be all but they think the ANC is on par with the sony and SQ possibly slightly worse.



Had missed that review, here it is https://www.theverge.com/2019/11/1/...esign-price-specs-features-noise-cancellation

Pretty detailed and accurate review starting with the...perfect title : "perfect fit" - that's really the headline news to me, Apple have managed to make an IEM as easy and pleasant to use as an earbud, the fact that's it's got ANC, decent sound, excellent mics, a tiny case doesn't hurt either of course  They do call out the "limited lifespan", I'm not so sure really, my 65Ts are 1+ year old and I can't say I've noticed any reduced battery life. Sur it will happen, eventually, but that's probably more like in 5+ years time, unless you're unlucky. Other than not having "Ok Google" they're absolutely fine for Android use too.


----------



## howdy (Nov 2, 2019)

Any of you that have the XM3s and Tidal try the new Tidal 360? As far as I know its exclusive to Sony products only. Giving it a try now to see how it sounds. its suppose to give 5.1 surround.

Edit:
Looks like all headphones can do this but the Sony app is the only one as of now able to customize and it take pictures of your head to optimize it.


----------



## tma6

Just an update. Now two different pairs of MW07+ with bad connectivity issues. Just returned the second pair sadly, loved the SQ and call quality but connection issues were just too frustrating for me. Now back to my trusty Tevi and with some eq in favor of bass I remembered what I loved about these things in the first place. Just awesome sound for the price, even compared w the MW07. Btw if any of you wanna see my full review of the Tevis, my review is the top review on Amazon right now. I was a super early adopter and loved them right away.


----------



## hifi80sman

howdy said:


> @hifi80sman
> The wife and I have a fun time guessing your new Avatars, this one had us a bit stumped. Is it Ronnie James Dio or Weird Al.


LOL!  I try to keep it interesting!


----------



## geoxile

tma6 said:


> Just an update. Now two different pairs of MW07+ with bad connectivity issues. Just returned the second pair sadly, loved the SQ and call quality but connection issues were just too frustrating for me. Now back to my trusty Tevi and with some eq in favor of bass I remembered what I loved about these things in the first place. Just awesome sound for the price, even compared w the MW07. Btw if any of you wanna see my full review of the Tevis, my review is the top review on Amazon right now. I was a super early adopter and loved them right away.


Is it possible they're having issues with iphones? Have you tried it with any qualcomm devices with aptx and TWS?


----------



## tma6

geoxile said:


> Is it possible they're having issues with iphones? Have you tried it with any qualcomm devices with aptx and TWS?



maybe? My Tevis work perfectly. Zero connection issues


----------



## jasaero

Interesting App review.  Very favorable overall, but reams them bad on SQ for the price.


----------



## Blueshound24 (Nov 2, 2019)

This is not meant to rip on Apple, but more of an observation. There are so many complaints here regarding Non - iProducts not playing nice with iProducts.
At one point years ago I was curious about trying Apple stuff, but after reading about all the issues here I'm glad I never went there, and I am more than happy with my lowly Android that seems to work well with just about anything, (except Apple products). It would drive me crazy knowing what I have is so proprietary to it's own gear, and out of sync with many other gears/software, etc. Not to mention having to pay a premium price for just "ok" sound.

But I'm glad for the Apple fans seemingly, finally finding something that works well for them in the new APP.


----------



## rage3324

jasaero said:


> Interesting App review.  Very favorable overall, but reams them bad on SQ for the price.




I agree 100% with this review.


----------



## hifi80sman

rage3324 said:


> I agree 100% with this review.


I agree with most of it, except for the part where he says the AirPods Pro passively block out more mid-to-high frequency noise than the Sony.  I find the Sony simply passively isolate better and block out more noise, period.  The venting system allows more noise to pass through the AirPod Pro than the Sony.  He does indicate the Small tips worked better for him, so it's possible he didn't achieve the best fit with the Sony.

I do like the seamless integration of the AirPod Pros with iOS and how well they work for calls, and while they are tempting to keep, the sound (at $249) just doesn't cut it if I'm going to use it for a few hours straight.  The BackBeat Pro 5100 sound better and are arguably better for calls at $169.  The whole package is good and will probably work for many, many people, just not for me.


----------



## tinyman392

Blueshound24 said:


> This is not meant to rip on Apple, but more of an observation. There are so many complaints here regarding Non - iProducts not playing nice with iProducts.
> At one point years ago I was curious about trying Apple stuff, but after reading about all the issues here I'm glad I never went there, and I am more than happy with my lowly Android that seems to work well with just about anything, (except Apple products). It would drive me crazy knowing what I have is so proprietary to it's own gear, and out of sync with many other gears/software, etc. Not to mention having to pay a premium price for just "ok" sound.
> 
> But I'm glad for the Apple fans seemingly, finally finding something that works well for them in the new APP.



The only issue I really have with this is the assumption of just "OK" sound.  I've read reviews saying they sound identical to the OG AirPods, I've read reviews saying they're an improvement, I've read they are worse.  Realistically, I couldn't even tell you if there was a consensus on what the AirPod Pros sounded like based on the more "professional" reviews.  These are a midrange-focused signature which typically isn't everyone's cup of tea.  The original AirPods were just "OK" and just passable for their sound quality.  I stated this in my review above, but sonically, they are easily in the top 3 TWS IEMs that I own (the OG AirPods are easily bottom two, probably dead last).  Just make sure you insert them as deep as you can get them and tip roll using something like the Sensaphonics Seal test (https://www.sensaphonics.com/pages/audio-seal-test) and don't blindly trust Apple's seal test.  For the most part, they are on par with others in their price range.  Granted I mainly only have the Sony WF-1000X and B&W E8 in the price range.

At the same time, I might have a slight bias since I do prefer a more linear, more neutral, sound signature similar to the Etymotic or the HiFiMan RE0 as baselines.  Both are regarded as very thin headphones because they are, but the bass depth is there on both with presence having difficulties (slight to major depending on who you ask).  To be honest, they are the closest analog I have to describing the sound signature of the AirPod Pros.  They are thin with just slightly better low-to-mid bass presence over my ER3SE having similar presence issues down in the sub-bass.  

Another note, if anyone with the AirPod Pros want more bass, turn off the ANC and Transparency features.  It creates a minor improvement in sub-bass presence which helps out the headphones quite a bit.


----------



## hifi80sman

Blueshound24 said:


> This is not meant to rip on Apple, but more of an observation. There are so many complaints here regarding Non - iProducts not playing nice with iProducts.
> At one point years ago I was curious about trying Apple stuff, but after reading about all the issues here I'm glad I never went there, and I am more than happy with my lowly Android that seems to work well with just about anything, (except Apple products). It would drive me crazy knowing what I have is so proprietary to it's own gear, and out of sync with many other gears/software, etc. Not to mention having to pay a premium price for just "ok" sound.
> 
> But I'm glad for the Apple fans seemingly, finally finding something that works well for them in the new APP.


Apple makes great phones.  Software has to play within its own sandbox and they work super smoothly with the hardware.  Gaming just flat out runs better on iOS vs. Android.  That being said, Apple accessories typically fall short *for me*, because unfortunately, they are high margin products that they know will have an instant market.  Nothing wrong with that, especially from a business perspective, but for us in a niche market, it may leave many of us wanting.


----------



## hifi80sman

tinyman392 said:


> The only issue I really have with this is the assumption of just "OK" sound.  I've read reviews saying they sound identical to the OG AirPods, I've read reviews saying they're an improvement, I've read they are worse.  Realistically, I couldn't even tell you if there was a consensus on what the AirPod Pros sounded like based on the more "professional" reviews.  These are a midrange-focused signature which typically isn't everyone's cup of tea.  The original AirPods were just "OK" and just passable for their sound quality.  I stated this in my review above, but sonically, they are easily in the top 3 TWS IEMs that I own (the OG AirPods are easily bottom two, probably dead last).  Just make sure you insert them as deep as you can get them and tip roll using something like the Sensaphonics Seal test (https://www.sensaphonics.com/pages/audio-seal-test) and don't blindly trust Apple's seal test.  For the most part, they are on par with others in their price range.  Granted I mainly only have the Sony WF-1000X and B&W E8 in the price range.
> 
> At the same time, I might have a slight bias since I do prefer a more linear, more neutral, sound signature similar to the Etymotic or the HiFiMan RE0 as baselines.  Both are regarded as very thin headphones because they are, but the bass depth is there on both with presence having difficulties (slight to major depending on who you ask).  To be honest, they are the closest analog I have to describing the sound signature of the AirPod Pros.  They are thin with just slightly better low-to-mid bass presence over my ER3SE having similar presence issues down in the sub-bass.
> 
> Another note, if anyone with the AirPod Pros want more bass, turn off the ANC and Transparency features.  It creates a minor improvement in sub-bass presence which helps out the headphones quite a bit.


Totally agree.  They are a mid-centric sound that some people like and some people don't.  "Quality" is mostly perceived as "enjoyment", which mixes objective and subjective variables.  Ruth's Chris Steak House certainly has objectively better steak than Denny's, but shoot, I like Denny's T-Bone better.  My mom was always getting on my case for liking instant mashed potatoes better than the real thing.

I don't enjoy the sound signature on the AirPods Pro because my ears hear a raspiness that just bothers me.  They just sound scratchy to me, while the bass sounds soft and mushy.  But hey, I don't hold out my opinion as the truth, it's just the truth for me.


----------



## Bartig

msooffutt said:


> Nice review.  Just a comment on the app pro controls.  Do you know whether or not you’re on the latest firmware?  When I first got mine, I also thought the controls were kind of terrible, but after the firmware update they are pretty spot on.  I’m not sure if it was the firmware or I just got used to how they work, but they don’t miss now.


Yeah, got the latest firmware. They control pretty good but not flawless, is all.

By the way, I added a conclusion and selected recommendations to my AirPods Pro comparison: https://www.scarbir.com/guide/apple-airpods-pro-vs-cheap-tws


----------



## tinyman392 (Nov 2, 2019)

jasaero said:


> Interesting App review.  Very favorable overall, but reams them bad on SQ for the price.




I agreed with a lot of the non-audio portions of the review, at least the portions I could confirm myself.  I think there were a few things I could find (not audio related) was when he said the stems were capacitive and force sensitive, they're only force sensitive (this is a good thing actually).  Put on a pair of non-touch screen gloves and the stems still register.  This was one of the first things I tested with them actually (out of curiosity).  He makes a statement that Apple isn't the first to do any of the new features in the Pros.  I don't think I've seen or heard of another headphone that does ANC within the ear canal nor have I heard of a company creating an internal automated seal test (even if the feature doesn't quite work the best, I have magical ears like him!), do correct me if there is another headphone that does either of these.  AKG did have a full-sized headphone that adjusted the headphone's output based on internal microphones that tried to map the shape of your ear.

I actually ended up disagreeing quite a bit with lots of the audio aspects of the review.  Let's start foam tips vs silicone tips.  Yes, foam absorbs more sound (vs silicone that reflects it), but it also alters every headphone you give it and creates a darker tilt to the headphone.  I absolutely hate this about foam tips, granted properly prepping the tips for insertion helps, it doesn't fix the issue entirely.  If you prefer a darker sound, this will do it for just about any headphone.  I'll agree that they are much more comfortable and isolate much better (thought it comes at a cost since they need to be replaced more readily than their silicone counterparts).  In terms of SQ, foam absorbs mids and highs, silicone reflects, that internal ANC kind of minimizes both by just canceling it.  All three will have their own effect on the SQ.  What's best?  Depends on your needs.  Want something longer lasting, go silicone.  Want more isolation, foam.  Want a darker sound, foam.  Want a brighter sound, silicone.

ANC and the effect of headphones.  Whenever I turn on ANC on any headphone I've had that have it, I tend to not hear the reduction of treble.  What I do hear with just about every headphone I've tried with ANC is that it rolls off the sub-bass for whatever reason (the AirPods included). 

Move on to the OG AirPods and their SQ...  The bass is a somewhat dirty, veiling mess; so I agree there, it's not good.  Unless the midrange consists of only vocals, vocals, and more vocals, then yes, the AirPods and AirPod Pros have the same quality of midrange (kind of the reason why they work so well for phone calls).  Unfortunately the Pros have a more forward midrange which has its downsides (see my post above about a neutral-ish signature) but helps in detailing, clarity, timbre, and a whole slew of other things.  I'd give the original AirPods a D or C- in terms of Midrange, the new ones are probably closer to an A-. In terms of treble, the Pros are slightly more refined and have a better detailing.  A lot of the issues of the original AirPods do stem from the fact that the bass is just overwhelming (a simple bass reduction EQ fixes much of it).  Saying they have the same quality is a complete understatement in my mind when the Pros improve upon the bass, midrange, and treble compared to its predecessor.  His opinion is that they are "meh", and I'm not going to take that away from him because a lot of people would have said the Brainwavz B2 are "meh", Etymotics are "meh", RE0s are "meh", etc. due to their own personal reasons and they have every reason to feel that way.  It's kind of interesting, but the majority of headphones with a very polarizing opinion on them tend to be very midrange-focused: HiFiMan TWS, Etymotics, RE0s, even something like the HiFiMan HE-560 had somewhat of a polarizing feel when they released.  Apple's not new to this either, the ADDIEM comes to mind (which was another headphone the Pros reminded me of) which have polarizing opinions on their sound.


----------



## webvan

tinyman392 said:


> I agreed with a lot of the non-audio portions of the review, at least the portions I could confirm myself.  I think there were a few things I could find (not audio related) was when he said the stems were capacitive and force sensitive, they're only force sensitive (this is a good thing actually).  Put on a pair of non-touch screen gloves and the stems still register.  This was one of the first things I tested with them actually (out of curiosity).  He makes a statement that Apple isn't the first to do any of the new features in the Pros.  I don't think I've seen or heard of another headphone that does ANC within the ear canal nor have I heard of a company creating an internal automated seal test (even if the feature doesn't quite work the best, I have magical ears like him!), do correct me if there is another headphone that does either of these.  AKG did have a full-sized headphone that adjusted the headphone's output based on internal microphones that tried to map the shape of your ear.
> 
> I actually ended up disagreeing quite a bit with lots of the audio aspects of the review.  Let's start foam tips vs silicone tips.  Yes, foam absorbs more sound (vs silicone that reflects it), but it also alters every headphone you give it and creates a darker tilt to the headphone.  I absolutely hate this about foam tips, granted properly prepping the tips for insertion helps, it doesn't fix the issue entirely.  If you prefer a darker sound, this will do it for just about any headphone.  I'll agree that they are much more comfortable and isolate much better (thought it comes at a cost since they need to be replaced more readily than their silicone counterparts).  In terms of SQ, foam absorbs mids and highs, silicone reflects, that internal ANC kind of minimizes both by just canceling it.  All three will have their own effect on the SQ.  What's best?  Depends on your needs.  Want something longer lasting, go silicone.  Want more isolation, foam.  Want a darker sound, foam.  Want a brighter sound, silicone.
> 
> ...



All good points (impact of Foam, of ANC, of "meh") but just to clarify, both the Sony WF-1000Xm3 and the Libratone Track Air+ (not the MW07 plus though) have "Feedback ANC" (the mic inside) on top of ForceFeed ANC (the mic outside) and of course all the top headsets by Bose, Sony Jabra have that too. As for the test, interestingly the (few) reviewers of the Track Air + indicated that Libratone was planning to add a "fit test" in their app but that has not materialized so far. TBH I find this test a bit "gimmicky" given the limited choice of tips anyway and it should be easy enough to find out if you have a good seal or not, like talking with ANC off 

I've said it before but I'll say it again because I haven't really seen any reviews saying that or even many comments about that here but I think that Apple should get a lot of credit for coming up with the first IEMs (wired or wireless) that work by just being dropped in like you would put on a headset, or can someone point me to other examples ?


----------



## zeppu08

11.11 is coming. Whats the best do you guys recommend to get?


----------



## tinyman392

webvan said:


> All good points (impact of Foam, of ANC, of "meh") but just to clarify, both the Sony WF-1000Xm3 and the Libratone Track Air+ (not the MW07 plus though) have "Feedback ANC" (the mic inside) on top of ForceFeed ANC (the mic outside) and of course all the top headsets by Bose, Sony Jabra have that too. As for the test, interestingly the (few) reviewers of the Track Air + indicated that Libratone was planning to add a "fit test" in their app but that has not materialized so far. TBH I find this test a bit "gimmicky" given the limited choice of tips anyway and it should be easy enough to find out if you have a good seal or not, like talking with ANC off
> 
> I've said it before but I'll say it again because I haven't really seen any reviews saying that or even many comments about that here but I think that Apple should get a lot of credit for coming up with the first IEMs (wired or wireless) that work by just being dropped in like you would put on a headset, or can someone point me to other examples ?



Good to know.  My WF-1000X are a little dated at this point since they're 2 generations behind, but I know they didn't have the mic pointing towards the ear drum to cancel that stuff out.  I was thinking about upgrading them at one point to see what's changed.  I may still do that.  It's pretty easy to figure out if you have a seal for the most part.  It's more difficult to see if you have a proper seal or the best seal which is why I tend to run to a test like Sensaphonics; it's 100% objective, but does add _some_ objectivity to it..  

I'm not sure what you mean by just being dropped in like you would put on a headset.  Most of the TWS headphones I have power on when you pull them out of the case so they're running already when they're in your ears.  Though they don't know whether or not they're in your ears.  Like if you were to take off the AirPods, they'll stop playing audio through the AirPods and go through the source device instead.  If that's what you're referring to, then yes, I'm unaware of any other headphone manufacturers that put proximity sensors on their earbuds.


----------



## webvan

Sorry I meant IEMs that can be dropped in your ears and you get a perfect fit/seal for hours without having to push them in, wriggle them around, repeat when the seal breaks when you walk/talk /chew, etc..


----------



## dweaver

Well I stopped by the Apple store to try out the APP and was very impressed with the ANC and comfort. The store was extremely busy and noisy and when I placed in the APP they just cut 80% of that noise away. I also was able to achieve a good seal by simply putting them in my ears and they then simply stopped feeling like something in my ears, extremely comfortable. I did a shake test and they never moved either to nice and secure. I tested the ambient mode talking with the Apple Rep and they worked great in that fashion so would be excellent at the office so I could hear co-workers.

Sound wise, they have nice bass but it lagged behind my Momentum True Wireless  for depth. The mids were stronger and sounded good. The treble seemed rolled off compared to the MTW. I was listening to Patricia Barber Come on Light my Fire and Led Zeppelin Emmigrant Song for my testing. All in all I thought they lagged behind my MTW for sound quality. But this was an extremely small sample size with no true A/B testing so not a real test. Not to mention the environment was extremely loud so not a good place for testing.

I have to say I really liked what I experienced. I now have to decide whether the non Audiophile aspects were good enough to make me consider the extreme cost and trade offs the APP have as compared to something like the Liberty 2 Pro which is $129 cheaper here in Canada. In other words do I need ANC and Ambient mode that badly and would I be willing to trade the better audio experience of the Liberty 2 Pro.

My budget being as tight as it is, I am still leaning toward the L2P especially since I am a Samsung S9 user so will never be able to take full advantage of the APP.


----------



## clerkpalmer

If SQ is your thing, the noble falcon could very well be the best yet. Should be available any day now. I really want to try them but the stems are elongated and while I understand the design choice, i do not enjoy deep insertion iems. I'll bet they sound amazing for the 150 asking price.


----------



## tinyman392

clerkpalmer said:


> If SQ is your thing, the noble falcon could very well be the best yet. Should be available any day now. I really want to try them but the stems are elongated and while I understand the design choice, i do not enjoy deep insertion iems. I'll bet they sound amazing for the 150 asking price.



I preordered these when I heard about them mid-October.  I have no clue when I'll receive them though.  First Noble product, kinda', I have the Heir Audio 4.ai and 3.ai (the 4.ai actually caused a lot of polarity in how they sounded, this hobby is so exciting!).


----------



## karloil

Dobrescu George said:


> If anyone is curious about the new Lypertek Tevi, I made a full video about them




Just additional FYI

5:28 - it doesn't matter which side you connect 1st during pairing, either side will work. 

5:58 - Lypertek is a subdivision of Oriveti

9:47 - agreed on the sweet sounding midrange


----------



## tinyman392

webvan said:


> Sorry I meant IEMs that can be dropped in your ears and you get a perfect fit/seal for hours without having to push them in, wriggle them around, repeat when the seal breaks when you walk/talk /chew, etc..



That's going to be ergonomics more than anything.  Also depends on the ears they are going into as well.  The majority of the headphones I have are this way, though they seal more reliably if you pull up on the helix of your ear as you're putting them in.


----------



## VZWDJ

Any recommendations on True wireless earbuds?


----------



## clerkpalmer

dlilker said:


> Any recommendations on True wireless earbuds?


Liberty 2 pro is a great all around mid range option with a solid feature set and great sound. Good place to start.  Welcome. If that doesn't suit you, read up a little in the thread.


----------



## VZWDJ

Thanks for the recommendation... What about with reached to mic quality for calls?


----------



## clerkpalmer

dlilker said:


> Thanks for the recommendation... What about with reached to mic quality for calls?


Not good for that. Apple or Jabra maybe. Others may have other thoughts. I dont use mine for calls generally.


----------



## jasaero (Nov 2, 2019)

dlilker said:


> Any recommendations on True wireless earbuds?



If SQ is primary concern, these are great.  Not many will sound better even for way more.  Battery life isn't awesome and call quality is OK.  Nothing real bad though with them. And seems rubber button eventually gets messed up and needs glued back on. 
https://www.amazon.com/SSK-Bluetoot...sr_1_1?keywords=SSK+tws&qid=1572749740&sr=8-1


----------



## dweaver

clerkpalmer said:


> Not good for that. Apple or Jabra maybe. Others may have other thoughts. I dont use mine for calls generally.


Really? I have seen a couple reviews that say the mic is bad but most say it's good and a few that test it live seem to show a pretty decent mic.

So your experience shows otherwise. What is its biggest issue?


----------



## clerkpalmer

dweaver said:


> Really? I have seen a couple reviews that say the mic is bad but most say it's good and a few that test it live seem to show a pretty decent mic.
> 
> So your experience shows otherwise. What is its biggest issue?


Just a few calls outside so maybe not ideal use case. They may be fine. Definitely check the reviews for this. As I mentioned it's not something I care about in a tws. having owned a ton of tws headsets, the pro 2 is my current  favorite bang for your buck. I tend to go for the larger brands over chi fi.


----------



## udd3n

udd3n said:


> I got a pair of sennheiser momentum true wireless and sometimes when I power up something or get static from something I get this weird static in the earphones at the same time.
> 
> Anyone else that gets any weird sounds when you get a static electric shock from something? Got a handful of them when doing laundry the other night.. You know when your electrically loaded and touch something metal and there's a small lightning.. That's when the sound is In the earphones.



No one experienced this? If so I might need to send them back.


----------



## 13gsc13

I have the Momentum TW and Absolutely no static
I put Comply tips on them because I prefer foam tips and they sound great


----------



## udd3n

13gsc13 said:


> I have the Momentum TW and Absolutely no static
> I put Comply tips on them because I prefer foam tips and they sound great


.

Thanks! 

It's like there's electrical sound going through the earphones when I touch something with another electrical potential than me. And sometimes as said when powering something up, like a light. I thought it could be normal and it's the connection between the buds that's sensitive to electrical potential flaws.

Might send them back then. Thanks!


----------



## Minarets

Are the SKK waterproof to any rating? My son wants some wireless for working out.


----------



## srinivasvignesh

Minarets said:


> Are the SKK waterproof to any rating? My son wants some wireless for working out.



I have the SSK earbud packaging in front of me and it says IPX5. Have not tried it with water exposure though.


----------



## Minarets

srinivasvignesh said:


> I have the SSK earbud packaging in front of me and it says IPX5. Have not tried it with water exposure though.


Thanks.  That’s should be good enough.


----------



## Blueshound24 (Nov 3, 2019)

tinyman392 said:


> Let's start foam tips vs silicone tips.  Yes, *foam absorbs more sound (vs silicone that reflects it), but it also alters every headphone you give it and creates a darker tilt to the headphone*.  I absolutely hate this about foam tips, granted properly prepping the tips for insertion helps, it doesn't fix the issue entirely.  If you prefer a darker sound, this will do it for just about any headphone.  I'll agree that they are much more comfortable and isolate much better (thought it comes at a cost since they need to be replaced more readily than their silicone counterparts).  In terms of SQ, foam absorbs mids and highs, silicone reflects, that internal ANC kind of minimizes both by just canceling it.  All three will have their own effect on the SQ.  What's best?  Depends on your needs.  Want something longer lasting, go silicone.  Want more isolation, foam.  Want a darker sound, foam.  Want a brighter sound, silicone.



Sorry OT. Agree with this and that is why I don't like foam either. These are the tips I mostly use. The Symbio are a foam/silicone hybrid that gives you the comfort and seal of memory foam but retains a nice detailed sound of the silicone. Love them. I also use Final E series ear tips which are awesome for fit and sound. They always seal right away and even being silicone they do the least to color the sound, and are by far the most comfortable silicone tips I've ever tried. But do give the Symbio's a try, I think y'all will like them as well.

Also, one of the things I disliked about foams is the absolute need to squish them down to fit in your ear. It is best to do that with the Symbio's as well. But if you are in a hurry they can be pushed into your ear like you do with silicone, but it may not give the best fit. It goes without saying it helps to pull up on the helix of your ear during insertion.

https://theheadphonelist.com/mandarines-symbio-w-tips-review-silicone-with-an-orange-twist/


----------



## mattedialdoc

Blueshound24 said:


> Sorry OT. Agree with this and that is why I don't like foam either. These are the tips I mostly use. The Symbio are a foam/silicone hybrid that gives you the comfort and seal of memory foam but retains a nice detailed sound of the silicone. Love them. I also use Final E series ear tips which are awesome for fit and sound. They always seal right away and even being silicone they do the least to color the sound. But do give the Symbio's a try, I think y'all will like them as well.
> 
> Also, one of the things I disliked about foams is the absolute need to squish them down to fit in your ear. It is best to do that with the Symbio's as well. But if you are in a hurry they can be pushed into your ear like you do with silicone, but it may not give the best fit. It goes without saying it helps to pull up on the helix of your ear during insertion.
> 
> https://theheadphonelist.com/mandarines-symbio-w-tips-review-silicone-with-an-orange-twist/



Any idea which model are best fitting for our various TWS??


----------



## Blueshound24 (Nov 3, 2019)

mattedialdoc said:


> Any idea which model are best fitting for our various TWS??



Not sure if you are talking about whether they fit in the case or not and I'm not sure about that.

I think the only place you can get the Symbio's is on eBay from garcs5522. If I'm not mistaken, I think he is active here on Head-Fi.

Not sure if the Final's fit in the case either. 
I ordered mine directly from Final.


----------



## HungryPanda

https://symbioeartips.com/


----------



## rulerofrecords

Have not been here in a while. Could these SSK be an upgrade to my MpowT5? If not, with 11.11 in mind what would be for under 100 USD/Euros? cheers


----------



## webvan

rulerofrecords said:


> Have not been here in a while. Could these SSK be an upgrade to my MpowT5? If not, with 11.11 in mind what would be for under 100 USD/Euros? cheers


I'd say "no", I found the fit of the SSK too small even though my ears are not particularly large, they would just float around and the seal would get broken. Also the soundstage was almost too large with my brain having issues (first time it happens) to build a continuous picture, sort of left a "gap" in the middle. I have neither of these problems with the T5/M5s. In terms of SQ it's just as "pleasing" for both.


----------



## 05stisilver

Incase anyone is interested I have a set of Mavin's and Nuarl's for sale

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/mavin-air-x-and-nuarl-nt01-ax-bg.918449/


----------



## silverfishla

Question, and I wonder if anyone has any insight.  There are a lot of DAP manufacturers that have now implemented LDAC as a protocol for Bluetooth transmission.  These DAP manufacturers pay a licensing fee to be able to use the Sony tech.  Why haven’t any TWS manufacturers implemented LDAC on the receiving end?  I know that it would take a producer that is willing to pay the fee and then figure that into their profit margin.  Are there any rumors of anyone releasing a True Wireless iem with LDAC?  Because I’m waiting...


----------



## Cretz42

https://www.mavinlife.com/product_d.php?lang=en&tb=1&id=521

Keeping a close eye out for when these are released. Next purchase for sure.


----------



## hifi80sman

Cretz42 said:


> https://www.mavinlife.com/product_d.php?lang=en&tb=1&id=521
> 
> Keeping a close eye out for when these are released. Next purchase for sure.


Those look nice.  Made in Taiwan as well, which is NOT the same as China.


----------



## Putshoesonthatmonster

posedown said:


> I'll give it up with TWS for now. Most of the time I want to have my phone in my pocket. And just in this case, I have constantly dropouts.
> At first I thought it was the Tribit X1, then the Mpow T5 and the Sabbat E12 Ultra. Everywhere the same.
> Then I thought it had to do with my Huawei Mate 10 Pro.
> But today I got the Shanling M0 and the MTW 100. And guess what, exactly the same!
> M0 in my pocket and a little twist with my head and immediately I get dropouts.



I can only comment on the mpow T5, however I have had no issues with drop outs or my wife with a pixel 4 or mate 20 pro respectively.
The issue lies with the phone I think its Bluetooth 4.2, with 5 you should have no issues


----------



## Luchyres

Cretz42 said:


> https://www.mavinlife.com/product_d.php?lang=en&tb=1&id=521
> 
> Keeping a close eye out for when these are released. Next purchase for sure.



Please tag me if you find out a release date! I'm interested in these and the NUARL update - otherwise just returning everything (except Anbes, Nuarl) and waiting. 

I liked the Mavin except for some aspects of bass - but very interested by these new ones. I really like that they're also trying to design the best case they can - and these look good to be from a spec perspective! Thanks for sharing.


----------



## Invalid

11.11 is coming... decisions decisions.


----------



## cwill

Has anyone figured out a way to modify a UFO case to fit longer tips in there? My favorite tips with the best seal (RadioShack!) don't fit.


----------



## Minarets

What is 11.11?   Keep seeing it mentioned here


----------



## prfraczek (Nov 3, 2019)

how do you compare sound quality Lypertek Tevi vs Sennheiser Momentum. I am looking for upgrade  ie80. can you recommend anything better?


----------



## Putshoesonthatmonster

Minarets said:


> What is 11.11?   Keep seeing it mentioned here


Singles day in China, loads of deals available. Think black Friday

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/black-f...es-day-and-how-does-it-compare-to-black-frid/


----------



## Francesco Montanari

I cooperate with AliExpress and i received an exclusive coupon... I will share it with you on 11.11 togheter with other coupons 



Putshoesonthatmonster said:


> Singles day in China, loads of deals available. Think black Friday
> 
> https://www.telegraph.co.uk/black-f...es-day-and-how-does-it-compare-to-black-frid/


----------



## Minarets

I’m still really happy with the AirPods pro.  Anxious to try out on my flight next week.  The combo of ANC and transparency is awesome.   I EQ’s then on the iPhone and tried a ton of options and for some reason stuck with Eletronic, but sounds pretty darn good.  Happy with the total package.  Kind of surprised they are this good overall.


----------



## tinyman392

Steve Guttenburg has his opinions up about the AirPod Pros.



Granted I could have told you ahead of time that it would probably favor negatively (Steve has a strong preference towards warmth if I'm not mistaken, his ER4 would be the exception to the rule).  That said, I'm not sure how he could get a muddy bass out of a thin sounding phone that rolls off the sub-bass...  Kind of boggle's the mind.  I was looking for some measurements of the APP, but could only find something provided by The Sound Guys.  Does anyone know what kind of standards they use to measure their headphones (if it's an objective measurement)?  Any compensation/normalization they use (DF, OW, custom)?


----------



## tinyman392

Minarets said:


> I’m still really happy with the AirPods pro.  Anxious to try out on my flight next week.  The combo of ANC and transparency is awesome.   I EQ’s then on the iPhone and tried a ton of options and for some reason stuck with Eletronic, but sounds pretty darn good.  Happy with the total package.  Kind of surprised they are this good overall.



Small bass boost, lowers the 500Hz range while boosting vocals and treble.  I kind of wish the iPhone had a custom EQ you could set (like you can with Apple Music on the Mac).


----------



## Minarets

tinyman392 said:


> Small bass boost, lowers the 500Hz range while boosting vocals and treble.  I kind of wish the iPhone had a custom EQ you could set (like you can with Apple Music on the Mac).


Thank you.  That makes perfect sense. I prefer more treble than what the AirPods came with.   Typically i prefer a slight bass boost, high treble and high Mid’s.


----------



## tinyman392

Minarets said:


> Thank you.  That makes perfect sense. I prefer more treble than what the AirPods came with.   Typically i prefer a slight bass boost, high treble and high Mid’s.



If you want to know what the other EQs look like, download a copy of iTunes (on Windows or Mac OS 10.14 or prior) or Apple Music (Mac OS 10.15 or later).  Then the EQ stuff is under Window > Equalizer.


----------



## dwil

So is anyone else waiting for chi-fi tws iem makers to come up with the Blackpod Pros? Should be inevitable, right?


----------



## Dobrescu George

karloil said:


> Just additional FYI
> 
> 5:28 - it doesn't matter which side you connect 1st during pairing, either side will work.
> 
> ...



Fascinating, I had no idea. 

Oriveti copied the Linkin Park logo lol  

In other order of thoughts, I liked the Oriveti New Primacy, and I think that the Lypertek Tevi are well worth their asking price


----------



## clerkpalmer (Nov 3, 2019)

Another  APP review.  The score is higher than the actual review would suggest.  The criticism of the sq is fair.  

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cnet.com/google-amp/reviews/apple-airpods-pro-review/


----------



## Dobrescu George

clerkpalmer said:


> Another  APP review.  The score is higher than the actual review would suggest.  The criticism of the sq is fair.
> 
> https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cnet.com/google-amp/reviews/apple-airpods-pro-review/



Man, they do NOT look comfortable at all....


----------



## Invalid

Minarets said:


> What is 11.11?   Keep seeing it mentioned here



Like what @Putshoesonthatmonster said.
It's not just 11.11 they had the 9.9 and 10.10 sale too.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/ShopBack


----------



## CardigdanWalk

tinyman392 said:


> Small bass boost, lowers the 500Hz range while boosting vocals and treble.  I kind of wish the iPhone had a custom EQ you could set (like you can with Apple Music on the Mac).



@Minarets i agree, from playing around Electronic does sound the best of all the defaults, but still didn’t sound right, but I have found a solution (see below)

@tinyman392 i thought this as well, but then I discovered Spotify does have a custom EQ and it has changed everything! It’s under the playback settings.

to be honest, I was a bit disappointed with the APP sound at first, in particular the highs sounded really tinny and almost made my ears itchy, like too much clarity, and bass a bit lacking.

I’ve never really been one to play with EQ settings before, preferring natural sound of IEMs but the APP really needs it to sound right for me. I’m not the most knowledgable with regard to terminology, but I’ve found this EQ setting to sound amazing for the APP. Try it out.


----------



## CardigdanWalk

tinyman392 said:


> If you want to know what the other EQs look like, download a copy of iTunes (on Windows or Mac OS 10.14 or prior) or Apple Music (Mac OS 10.15 or later).  Then the EQ stuff is under Window > Equalizer.



You can also see the presents in Spotify On the iPhone too! Helped me play around to see what each did and find a sound I like!


----------



## chinmie (Nov 3, 2019)

quick question: if not regarding the price difference, which one is better in sound, and also overall: the Mpow T5 or the Plantronics Backbeat Pro 5100? does the B Pro 5100 has APTX support?


----------



## albau

dwil said:


> So is anyone else waiting for chi-fi tws iem makers to come up with the Blackpod Pros? Should be inevitable, right?


For the money they normally copy form, not function. And not polish.


----------



## dweaver

Dobrescu George said:


> Man, they do NOT look comfortable at all....



They might not look comfortable. But in my test I was amazed at how comfortable they were in my ears. But I know if I buy some for my wife I will have her try at an Apple store before buying because she has different ears than me so better safe than sorry.

I suggest you try them if you can.


----------



## DigDub

I didn't know the Melomania 1 is firmware updatable. Nice! Anyway, here's it. Takes slightly over 8 mins per bud for the firmware update.

https://techsupport.cambridgeaudio....12578-Firmware-Update-v6-6-Improvements-Fixes


----------



## Minarets

CardigdanWalk said:


> @Minarets i agree, from playing around Electronic does sound the best of all the defaults, but still didn’t sound right, but I have found a solution (see below)
> 
> @tinyman392 i thought this as well, but then I discovered Spotify does have a custom EQ and it has changed everything! It’s under the playback settings.
> 
> ...



Oh wow. I have Apple Music but thought about switching.  My son has Spotify.  I’ll try it out on his phone.  Thanks for the heads up.


----------



## Caipirina

dwil said:


> So is anyone else waiting for chi-fi tws iem makers to come up with the Blackpod Pros? Should be inevitable, right?



I predict that in about 3 months we will see the i7 pro, about 20% bigger in size than the original  white only, none of the functions other than music.
In about a year they will have managed to cram all the essentials in the same form factor and there will be a plethora of colors .. selling for 20$ ... the ANC will be just a white noise generator with volume / bass boost to sell the illusion


----------



## tma6

Yo guys, after returning my MW07+ for the second time bc of connectivity, I decided to cave and bought the Airpod Pros. I really did not like the first Airpods at all and generally think Apple charges wayyyyy too much for what it sells, but saw the positive reviews and decided to give them a try. I think I might go ahead and do another full review here after trying them out for a week or so. First impressions: honestly I'm impressed, but it's been a bit of a weird experience. The first day I tried them they sounded washed out and tinny and a bit grating for some reason. But now on day 3 their sound is considerably better than when I first used them. I know a lot of people (including me) don't trust "burn in," but unless I'm going crazy this was one of the clearest cases I've heard of this type of phenomenon. Anyway, will report back with a full review in a few days, but definitely promising as of right now.


----------



## Minarets

Man, I have read a ton of “thin” reviews along with “tinny” and mine do not sound that way to me.  I don’t hear enough treble, in fact.


----------



## Cuebbing

udd3n said:


> I got a pair of sennheiser momentum true wireless and sometimes when I power up something or get static from something I get this weird static in the earphones at the same time.
> 
> Anyone else that gets any weird sounds when you get a static electric shock from something? Got a handful of them when doing laundry the other night.. You know when your electrically loaded and touch something metal and there's a small lightning.. That's when the sound is In the earphones.


I have two pairs if the sennheisers and I haven't experienced the weird sounds you describe.  They have been performing very reliably.  
On a different issue, they both seem to have the battery drain (when inside the charging case) a lot faster than all of my other TWS brands.  I have to keep an eye on them and make sure to charge the case if I don't use them for a few days.  It can be aggravating to get them out and find the battery dead.
Even with the charging case battery drain issue I still like them a lot for the good audio quality, phone call quality, fit, etc.


----------



## webvan

DigDub said:


> I didn't know the Melomania 1 is firmware updatable. Nice! Anyway, here's it. Takes slightly over 8 mins per bud for the firmware update.
> 
> https://techsupport.cambridgeaudio....12578-Firmware-Update-v6-6-Improvements-Fixes



Interesting, that means a dedicated "companion" app is not necessarily required to update the firmware of a TWS.


----------



## FYLegend

Do SSK have single bud use with either ear and Type C to Type C charging? Has any of the AptX versions been released on Aliexpress yet? Also, is the driver flex "bad" as it is on the "Air" and other rebrands?

Some interesting ones I found on Aliexpress:
This has AptX and USB Type C:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000293044739.html?spm=a2g0s.8937460.0.0.643c2e0e9E94X4

DOSS Cloud Fox Freepods - mixed reception on Amazon. No telling what kind of charging port it uses, only has AAC.
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000115415181.html?spm=a2g0s.8937460.0.0.643c2e0e9E94X4

Wavefun Xpods 3T -  looks more blue/gold although there is no specifics on how it differs from the original
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000276327066.html?spm=2114.12010612.8148356.3.1c2d3fa8WVL98H

SXYLOZHT Luxury 5.0 - AptX + Type C
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000297537704.html?spm=a2g0s.8937460.0.0.643c2e0e9E94X4


----------



## Rozzko

Please write 3 tws with best sound quality


----------



## CardigdanWalk

tma6 said:


> Yo guys, after returning my MW07+ for the second time bc of connectivity, I decided to cave and bought the Airpod Pros. I really did not like the first Airpods at all and generally think Apple charges wayyyyy too much for what it sells, but saw the positive reviews and decided to give them a try. I think I might go ahead and do another full review here after trying them out for a week or so. First impressions: honestly I'm impressed, but it's been a bit of a weird experience. *The first day I tried them they sounded washed out and tinny and a bit grating for some reason. But now on day 3 their sound is considerably better than when I first used them*. I know a lot of people (including me) don't trust "burn in," but unless I'm going crazy this was one of the clearest cases I've heard of this type of phenomenon. Anyway, will report back with a full review in a few days, but definitely promising as of right now.





Minarets said:


> Man, I have read a ton of “thin” reviews along with “tinny” and mine do not sound that way to me.  I don’t hear enough treble, in fact.



oh man, do the highs sound tinny or at least very detailed . Like cymbals are almost make my hair stand on end like scratching a blackboard, hence why I kill them in my EQ.

so I have two theories to this:

1) everyone has different hearing, some of us are older and some younger. Maybe I still have a bit more hearing on the higher ends hence my sensitivity?

2) I wonder if the earphone tip check isn’t just that. Maybe it’s a way of Apple getting / tricking users to run a program that custom changes the EQ of the AirPods?

@tma6 out of curiosity, did you run the earphone tip test again or change tips between day 1 and 3?

Thinking back on it, I did run the eartip size test, but I did M, L which came back Ok, then went to S which came back as poor seal. Needless to say I didn’t run the M or L again as I knew which fit ... but perhaps this could explain the many different sound profiles that people are having?


----------



## Caipirina (Nov 4, 2019)

FYLegend said:


> Some interesting ones I found on Aliexpress:
> 
> DOSS Cloud Fox Freepods - mixed reception on Amazon. No telling what kind of charging port it uses, only has AAC.
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000115415181.html?spm=a2g0s.8937460.0.0.643c2e0e9E94X4



I looked many times at those Cloud Fox, someone here  (Hifiman)actually had them and returned them for spotty connectivity & finicky controls ... And then there is this Q&A on amazon, the question being more scary than the response.




   seen them as cheap as 16.50 on AE ... they look snazzy .. but if I end up not using them ...

on the topic of new finds: I was not aware that Haylou has released a GT2 follow up model. Open style case with built in cable. And cheap. Other than that not too exciting. I like the gt1 quite some.

Also new and popping up all over the place are those cheap A13 buds. And before I start another lemming movement, I can imagine that at this price point they sound as bad as the Umidigi upods (they might be built around the same components), but what I really like is the soft silicone outer shell and that little fin. Plus clicky buttons (I think!) which I prefer. That was another 10$ shot in the dark


----------



## Barusu Lamperouge

Caipirina said:


> I looked many times at those Cloud Fox, someone here  (Hifiman)actually had them and returned them for spotty connectivity & finicky controls ... And then there is this Q&A on amazon, the question being more scary than the response.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



How bad are Umidigi Upods? Like Bluedio T-Elf bad?


----------



## rulerofrecords

webvan said:


> I'd say "no", I found the fit of the SSK too small even though my ears are not particularly large, they would just float around and the seal would get broken. Also the soundstage was almost too large with my brain having issues (first time it happens) to build a continuous picture, sort of left a "gap" in the middle. I have neither of these problems with the T5/M5s. In terms of SQ it's just as "pleasing" for both.



Okay, noted, thanx for that


----------



## zazaboy (Nov 4, 2019)

hi guys which tws has biggest soundstage right now with good bass for uplifting tracks of electronic music ?  prefer not a bright signature/shouty signature... anyone here have experience with tws and can maybe help me out right now looking at ssk tranya t3? can anyone give me some advice I read the whole thread and but nobody did a good comparison and everyone suggesting every new tws... would be wise if we had a list or something.. need something in budget range

are there any experienced users here with tws experience which is the best in budget range

can anyone suggest me 3 models which are any good?


----------



## Caipirina

Dani157 said:


> How bad are Umidigi Upods? Like Bluedio T-Elf bad?


I have not listened to them myself, but I trust Bartig’s reviews and he puts them in the same 1star trash category as the Elf 
https://www.scarbir.com/tws/umidigi-upods-review


----------



## Barusu Lamperouge

Caipirina said:


> I have not listened to them myself, but I trust Bartig’s reviews and he puts them in the same 1star trash category as the Elf
> https://www.scarbir.com/tws/umidigi-upods-review


Good. Then it goes straight out of my cart! Lol!


----------



## Caipirina (Nov 4, 2019)

dwil said:


> So is anyone else waiting for chi-fi tws iem makers to come up with the Blackpod Pros? Should be inevitable, right?


Ok, that went much much faster than I would have thought.  (Notice: noise reduction only  )

Wow, never seen a store with 76% rating before


----------



## zazaboy

zazaboy said:


> hi guys which tws has biggest soundstage right now with good bass for uplifting tracks of electronic music ?  prefer not a bright signature/shouty signature... anyone here have experience with tws and can maybe help me out right now looking at ssk tranya t3? can anyone give me some advice I read the whole thread and but nobody did a good comparison and everyone suggesting every new tws... would be wise if we had a list or something.. need something in budget range
> 
> are there any experienced users here with tws experience which is the best in budget range
> 
> can anyone suggest me 3 models which are any good?



anyone?


----------



## Rutteger

Guess a few on this thread will have anbes 359 / 359 clone. After updating my iphone 7 to ios 13.2 the headphone bluetooth drops after a few seconds - no issue with any other bt headphones tried. Anyone else having this issue - tried the normal power on / off , remove and add etc etc ??

Back to the drawing board for a new set of tws...


----------



## zazaboy

https://www.scarbir.com/truewireless atm there are a lot 5 star tws here which is a must buy from the 5 star list? suggestions plz


----------



## Caipirina

zazaboy said:


> https://www.scarbir.com/truewireless atm there are a lot 5 star tws here which is a must buy from the 5 star list? suggestions plz


If I had to pick only one of that top list: the SSK. Great sound, best fit for me an super reliable (no surprise discharging over night I.e.)


----------



## zazaboy

@Caipirina can you explain why you pick that that one .. can you give me more insight?


----------



## ArjenIsM3

Right so I need some help picking my next purchase. I've given up on my search for a good pair of ANC over ears for now since the PX7 and IO6 disappointed me for different reasons. However, I do need something that plays music over BT since all I have right now is a pair of Sennheiser IE80. Those are wired and my phone (P30 Pro) doesn't have a 3.5mm jack. Could get an adapter for it but I've decided I want to go wireless. I still want some ANC cans in the near future so these will be a temporary / backup option. Budget is around 100 euros. Sound quality is most important. Good video sync would be nice. To give you an idea of what I like sound-wise: Sennheiser IE80 / Philips Fidelio X1. So having done some research I've a couple of different options (random order). 

1. Tronsmart Spunky Beat
2. MPOW T5/M5
3. Lypertek Tevi
4. Cambridge Audio Melomania 1
5. Convert my IE80's to wireless bluetooth with a BT cable

Which of these options is going to best satisfy my needs? Can anyone compare some of them SQ-wise? Has anyone tried converting their IEMs to BT? Unfortunately I've no option to try any of them out which is why I would like some help. Any advice?


----------



## zazaboy

btw can we say that the sold out anbes 359  are the best budget headphones and the benchmark for budget tws right now?


----------



## udd3n

ArjenIsM3 said:


> Right so I need some help picking my next purchase. I've given up on my search for a good pair of ANC over ears for now since the PX7 and IO6 disappointed me for different reasons. However, I do need something that plays music over BT since all I have right now is a pair of Sennheiser IE80. Those are wired and my phone (P30 Pro) doesn't have a 3.5mm jack. Could get an adapter for it but I've decided I want to go wireless. I still want some ANC cans in the near future so these will be a temporary / backup option. Budget is around 100 euros. Sound quality is most important. Good video sync would be nice. To give you an idea of what I like sound-wise: Sennheiser IE80 / Philips Fidelio X1. So having done some research I've a couple of different options (random order).
> 
> 1. Tronsmart Spunky Beat
> 2. MPOW T5/M5
> ...



Maybe a Radsone Earstudio ES100 or FIIO BTR3?


----------



## yorosello

udd3n said:


> Maybe a Radsone Earstudio ES100 or FIIO BTR3?


Or Shanling UP2


----------



## prfraczek

udd3n said:


> Maybe a Radsone Earstudio ES100 or FIIO BTR3?


I did try both. Don't like sound quality compare to cable. 
Also I tried https://www.aliexpress.com/i/33006636225.html (after changing plugs) still don't like to sound quality of my IE80 even APT X HD
I did try Cambridge Audio Melomania 1 and Sennheiser Momantum and ... I don't like them plus didn't fit well in my ears.
Currently waiting for delivery of Lypertek Tevi. I will let you know today later


----------



## yorosello

prfraczek said:


> I did try both. Don't like sound quality compare to cable.
> Also I tried https://www.aliexpress.com/i/33006636225.html (after changing plugs) still don't like to sound quality of my IE80 even APT X HD
> I did try Cambridge Audio Melomania 1 and Sennheiser Momantum and ... I don't like them plus didn't fit well in my ears.
> Currently waiting for delivery of Lypertek Tevi. I will let you know today later


Have u tried shanling up2 ? They were neutral sources & I usually stream with LDAC codex with it. Sounds very nice.


----------



## prfraczek

If you wan't something proper (quality) go for https://www.amazon.co.uk/Audiolab-W...nics&sprefix=audiolab+,electronics,130&sr=1-1


----------



## Caipirina

zazaboy said:


> btw can we say that the sold out anbes 359  are the best budget headphones and the benchmark for budget tws right now?



And this is why I recommend / would pick the SSK, they are identical (ok, not the color) ... i own both , they sound (at least to my old ears) and behave the same (volume control by double clicking the buds), have the best fit for my wonky lobes and I can trust that when I pick them up in the morning for a run that they are charged and did not drain over night. Plus connection is rock solid


----------



## ArjenIsM3

I appreciate the input. The thing with those BT headphone amps is to me it kind of defeats the purpose. I'd still be stuck with a cable connected to a box that I have to carry around. I might as well get a usb-3.5mm adapter and carry around my phone instead


----------



## Bartig

zazaboy said:


> btw can we say that the sold out anbes 359  are the best budget headphones and the benchmark for budget tws right now?


Along with the Mpow T5/ M5. The SKK being even cheaper.


----------



## jasaero

zazaboy said:


> anyone?



I would try the SSK or other Anbes 359 UFO clone first.  They sound really good, have no big flaws with connection or other things, and can get the SSK on Amazon USA for $22.


----------



## zazaboy

aight thanks all


----------



## prfraczek

prfraczek said:


> I did try both. Don't like sound quality compare to cable.
> Also I tried https://www.aliexpress.com/i/33006636225.html (after changing plugs) still don't like to sound quality of my IE80 even APT X HD
> I did try Cambridge Audio Melomania 1 and Sennheiser Momantum and ... I don't like them plus didn't fit well in my ears.
> Currently waiting for delivery of Lypertek Tevi. I will let you know today later



After 2 hours with Lypertek Tevi. Buy them- won't regret!!! I'm in love


----------



## D3soLaT3

Has anyone heard or know of these? They are the EWA T200 and are currently an Amazon lightening deal for the next 4 hours or so. They have some intriguing specs like a 13mm driver, foam tips(so you know they fit in the case), and are ip67 waterproof.

Let me know!


----------



## webvan (Nov 4, 2019)

It's probably been commented on before butI just noticed that the MPOW T5 and Lypertek share the same case and likely the same buds. Has anyone actually been able to compare them side by side ? Are the Lypertek such of an improvement over the already excellent T5 that it justifies they're 4x price ?

EDIT - naturally this was noticed back in July and Lypertek were even asked about it and here was their answer : https://www.head-fi.org/threads/goi...re-we-there-yet.861024/page-631#post-15078234


----------



## tma6

CardigdanWalk said:


> oh man, do the highs sound tinny or at least very detailed . Like cymbals are almost make my hair stand on end like scratching a blackboard, hence why I kill them in my EQ.
> 
> so I have two theories to this:
> 
> ...




The hearing thing could be possible. I do feel like they’ve warmed up a bit after a few days and cymbals are starting to ease up. Definitely think the fit could matter a lot too, as it took me a bit to find a fit I was comfortable with and my sound impressions changed up until I found a fit that works.


----------



## tma6

webvan said:


> It's probably been commented on before butI just noticed that the MPOW T5 and Lypertek share the same case and likely the same buds. Has anyone actually been able to compare them side by side ? Are the Lypertek such of an improvement over the already excellent T5 that it justifies they're 4x price ?



imo the Lypertek are awesome but different than the mpows. They definitely have a bit more soundstage, definition in the highs, and a slightly more natural midrange, but the bass on the mpows is much more impactful and they still sound great for the price. Kinda depends on what you’re looking for but they have different signatures.


----------



## webvan

Thanks, my T5s/M5s sure sound pleasant with a good soundstage (not as "distracting as on the Anbes 359) and nice impactful bass once I get a good seal and comfortable fit. It wasn't easy to achieve that, I had to dig out the L silicone tips of the Jabra Elite Sports ! The seal probably wouldn't survive any brisk activity though...

I get the quest for tiny buds but I'm not sure what that's really achieving apart from "cuteness"...I really wish there were larger buds that fill your ears (like pro IEMs) for better stability. That or IEMs that come with "wings", actually this might be happening with wings being provided with the Echo Buds, need to check out some YT videos to see what they look like.


----------



## tma6 (Nov 4, 2019)

After further listening I think I'm starting to realize what the issues are with the Airpods Pro, and they're in the highs and the bass. Apple has definitely done something very clever with them though to mask certain deficiencies that reveal themselves on closer listen. Full review to come for sure on these.


----------



## Daniel Gur

Hello, I am looking for a nice pair of true wireless earphones. My budget is around 50$ but I ofc would prefer to spend as less as possible. After looking I found Blitzwolf BW-FYE7 which seems very nice for their price. Anyone has other recommendations?


----------



## Slater (Nov 4, 2019)

Good on all Jabra, but specifically a nice way to score a pair of Elite 65t if you’re in the market...

https://www.ebay.com/e/_electronics/jabra


----------



## ArjenIsM3

Slater said:


> Good on all Jabra, but specifically a nice way to score a pair of Elite 65t if you’re in the market...
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/e/_electronics/jabra



Not a bad deal. Shame they don't sound good.


----------



## Slater

ArjenIsM3 said:


> Not a bad deal. Shame they don't sound good.



Well, they are still very popular TW nonetheless


----------



## ArjenIsM3

Slater said:


> Well, they are still very popular TW nonetheless



Oh yeah and I can understand why, I just don't like the way they sound. They have other strengths though.


----------



## howdy

Slater said:


> Well, they are still very popular TW nonetheless


Still have my 65t Active. They are the worst sounding of the ones I own but, they are probably the most reliable.


----------



## bubsdaddy

Caipirina said:


> And this is why I recommend / would pick the SSK, they are identical (ok, not the color) ... i own both , they sound (at least to my old ears) and behave the same (volume control by double clicking the buds), have the best fit for my wonky lobes and I can trust that when I pick them up in the morning for a run that they are charged and did not drain over night. Plus connection is rock solid


I agree with all of this.


----------



## hifi80sman

D3soLaT3 said:


> Has anyone heard or know of these? They are the EWA T200 and are currently an Amazon lightening deal for the next 4 hours or so. They have some intriguing specs like a 13mm driver, foam tips(so you know they fit in the case), and are ip67 waterproof.
> 
> Let me know!


I have those.  They're pretty thick sounding.  They are _*not *_an audiophile recommendation.  They have a unique, resonating bass, which is admittedly fun, but only a recommendation for a teenager.  Anyone looking to seriously enjoy audio, I do _*not *_recommend.


----------



## hifi80sman

Daniel Gur said:


> Hello, I am looking for a nice pair of true wireless earphones. My budget is around 50$ but I ofc would prefer to spend as less as possible. After looking I found Blitzwolf BW-FYE7 which seems very nice for their price. Anyone has other recommendations?


The BlitzWolf are a little bass-boomy, look cool, but don't sound as good as they look.  They are not bad, in fact, I still have them and didn't feel then need to return, but they're nothing special.  For the around the same price, the MPOW T5 are much better.  I would classify them as a quality entry-level TWS.  They work well for calls too.


----------



## D3soLaT3

hifi80sman said:


> I have those.  They're pretty thick sounding.  They are _*not *_an audiophile recommendation.  Anyone looking to seriously enjoy audio, I do _*not *_recommend.


Thanks buddy. Glad I kept my money for 11.11.


----------



## ld100

howdy said:


> Still have my 65t Active. They are the worst sounding of the ones I own but, they are probably the most reliable.



Which ones do you like? I was considering Jabras...


----------



## Kulch

Hello all, new user here. have browsed this thread for 2 years and this site for the best part of 10. I am all about TWS and running. Have owned numerous IEMs from the seinhesser Cx100, shure 215, ibasso it01, and now I'm donning the little known (except for this forum) the ANBES359. I have been running for a few years now and have valued feedback. 
Started with the shure 215s, built like a brick house these things are sturdy and take a beating but they are old. 
Upgraded to ibasso it01 and these are brilliant, and my go to wired option if travelling. I must have gone thru 5 different iem cables when running with these as the salt, sweat and rain would cook the cable within 4 weeks. The ibasso iems themselves took beatings and the original cable started to build salt corrosion after 1yr of running. I had a full year of running and failed cables including the BT20. They just didn't handle the heat and humidity and insuing sweat. Enter headfi advice on ANBES359. I picked these up for the price of an Iem cable. I have run over 800kms in these things, 5 times a week. They will not break, they will keep going they sound great and they are cheap. I ran a marathon in these bad boys and after 2.5hrs the battery dies (probably it's only shortfall but how many marathons to people run?) I put them in the case for 15mins and finished the race with them playing. Easily the best purchase I have made in years. They sound amazing and with foam tips I get that proper seal and they sound better than the tips they come with, but have to remove the foams to they fit in the charger case but that's their only issue. If u are a runner/exercise/workout type of person these are the ones you want. Thankyou headfi and all the knowledge you provide and I will keep browsing, the iem game is always evolving. Enjoy


----------



## jant71

We have the latest combo creation...QCR Q1





Earpod style buds that are IPX7





6000mah power bank to charge a device or recharge the buds about 50 times. Also has a flashlight and pedometer and FM radio. Not sure how it receives radio signal though. I did ask how much memory it has and how the radio is supposed to work and if it has a 3.5mm jack hidden somewhere. Also claims to work in the car and that the buds work with other phones and stuff...







Seems to be getting a bit better.


----------



## Rozzko (Nov 4, 2019)

Hi
What's give better sound?
Shanling 100 or lypertek tevi?

I don't know which is better , and which to buy


----------



## carlosonunez (Nov 4, 2019)

carlosonunez said:


> Oh man; this thread is the holy grail of TWS. I've tried so many! Here are my quick thoughts on all of the pairs I've used over the years. Note: I have small ears, so fit is a challenge for me:
> 
> *AirPods v1:* Easiest Bluetooth headphones to pair ever, especially on a Mac, but surprisingly easy on other devices as well. Sound is okay, not great. Isolation is absent. AAC only. Control system kind of stinks; taps are worse than buttons. Phone calls are God-tier; could use these anywhere. Battery life okay at 5 hours, though in the past it was the best you could get. Being able to use each pod independently made this feel longer. No transparency mode or ANC. Case was pocketable; fit in the coin pocket. *Recommend.*
> 
> ...



*AirPods Pro:* AirPods sure have come a long way. Traditionally amazing pairing experience. Couldn't be easier on iOS, and is easier than most other truly wireless headphones on Android. You can't update them yourself as far as I know. The original AirPods did not sound that great. _These_ are a completely different animal. Sound quality was incredible. They approximate the sound signature I get with the MW07+ headphones with slightly less clarity. Bass and mids are *much* cleaner on these than the original AirPods. Good soundstage; MW07+ feels bigger (still smaller than over the ears, but bigger than they should be given their size). AAC only, just like the original AirPods. Good call quality, as expected, but what *really* surprised me is that the MW07+ seems to have better call quality than these! This is a first for me. Control scheme is great; major improvement from the originals. Loving the force-touch button on the stem. Fit is a significant improvement over the original AirPods; I forget that these are in my ear almost immediately. Also, these _somehow_ nearly eliminate the thump noise that you get with other IEMs while walking, which is absolutely incredible. Transparency mode is about as good as the MW07, so okay, not great. MW07+ have better noise cancelling abilities, but these are very good. Case is awesome; it's like the original AirPods case, but rotated. Fits in coin pocket. While I ultimately gave these to my wife, I am seriously considering trading in my Momentums for a pair of these. Worth every single penny of the $250 I paid for them. *Highly recommend.
*
(Addendum: You can use these with Android, with a few caveats.

1. I got a weird low-volume surging noise on the right bud when noise cancellation was on. This went away after I paired them with my iPad and ran the Ear Tip test.

2. You can either toggle noise cancellation or toggle ambient mode, but you can't turn either feature off completely. This worked for me since I almost always operate in one of these modes, but this reduces your play time to 4 hours from 5.

3. You need iOS to run the Ear Tip test. It plays a sample of _Awake_ by Tycho and uses its constant EQ feature to ensure that the sound quality is up to par. If you have an iOS device on hand and are new to IEMs or just aren't sure if you're getting the right fit, I would pair the AirPods Pro to it and give this a try.

4. Play/pause controls from the stems work as expected.)


----------



## howdy

ld100 said:


> Which ones do you like? I was considering Jabras...


I'm not sure what you're asking but I own the following.
Sony Wf1000XM3
Sennheiser Momentum TW
Power beats pro TW
Earin M2 
Jabra Elite 65t Active.
And this is also the order in which I rank them as well for my tastes.


----------



## chinmie

tma6 said:


> imo the Lypertek are awesome but different than the mpows. They definitely have a bit more soundstage, definition in the highs, and a slightly more natural midrange, but the bass on the mpows is much more impactful and they still sound great for the price. Kinda depends on what you’re looking for but they have different signatures.



i bet for outdoor noisy environments the MPow would be better. i was thinking of buying the Tevi, but reading reviews of it's signature sound, i would eventually end up only using it indoors.. which it would be redundant as i already have 3 BT20S combos for that


----------



## ld100

howdy said:


> I'm not sure what you're asking but I own the following.
> Sony Wf1000XM3
> Sennheiser Momentum TW
> Power beats pro TW
> ...



Thank you for your reply. I am surprised that Jabra is last... I heard they were not too bad. So in your opinion Sony sound that much better? My main concern is the sound.


----------



## Thiago Guedes

Hi folks, 

On the market for new buds. I can get the Galaxy Bud's, Soundcore L2PRO and Jabra 65t for 199 in Canada and I would say that the most I would go for.

I understand 75t is around the corner but it should come around 229. Not sure if the waiting is worth tough.


----------



## chinmie

@hifi80sman  if i remember correctly, you had owned the Galaxy buds, MPow T5, and the Backbeat Pro 5100? how do you compare them purely on sound and feature wise (not factoring in the price)?


----------



## Caipirina

Kulch said:


> Hello all, new user here. have browsed this thread for 2 years and this site for the best part of 10. I am all about TWS and running. Have owned numerous IEMs from the seinhesser Cx100, shure 215, ibasso it01, and now I'm donning the little known (except for this forum) the ANBES359. I have been running for a few years now and have valued feedback.
> Started with the shure 215s, built like a brick house these things are sturdy and take a beating but they are old.
> Upgraded to ibasso it01 and these are brilliant, and my go to wired option if travelling. I must have gone thru 5 different iem cables when running with these as the salt, sweat and rain would cook the cable within 4 weeks. The ibasso iems themselves took beatings and the original cable started to build salt corrosion after 1yr of running. I had a full year of running and failed cables including the BT20. They just didn't handle the heat and humidity and insuing sweat. Enter headfi advice on ANBES359. I picked these up for the price of an Iem cable. I have run over 800kms in these things, 5 times a week. They will not break, they will keep going they sound great and they are cheap. I ran a marathon in these bad boys and after 2.5hrs the battery dies (probably it's only shortfall but how many marathons to people run?) I put them in the case for 15mins and finished the race with them playing. Easily the best purchase I have made in years. They sound amazing and with foam tips I get that proper seal and they sound better than the tips they come with, but have to remove the foams to they fit in the charger case but that's their only issue. If u are a runner/exercise/workout type of person these are the ones you want. Thankyou headfi and all the knowledge you provide and I will keep browsing, the iem game is always evolving. Enjoy



pretty much agreeing with all of the above. One thing though that some runners dislike is the thumping sound (which you get from pretty much all IEM style tws) 

May I ask which marathon that was? Always looking for races that still allow headphones. Singapore i.e. does 
Biggest turn off at an IRONMAN 2 years back was that they strictly followed IAAF rules and banned all types of headphones.


----------



## Kulch

Caipirina said:


> pretty much agreeing with all of the above. One thing though that some runners dislike is the thumping sound (which you get from pretty much all IEM style tws)
> 
> May I ask which marathon that was? Always looking for races that still allow headphones. Singapore i.e. does
> Biggest turn off at an IRONMAN 2 years back was that they strictly followed IAAF rules and banned all types of headphones.


Sydney marathon in September


----------



## howdy

ld100 said:


> Thank you for your reply. I am surprised that Jabra is last... I heard they were not too bad. So in your opinion Sony sound that much better? My main concern is the sound.


To me the Sonys sound amazing! The senns are a very close 2nd. You can't go wrong with either. The Jabras aren't bad, but no where near my top 3.


----------



## FreshJR (Nov 4, 2019)

I already saw form members @Bartig chi-fi review compilation via https://www.scarbir.com/

I am wondering if anyone has other videos comparing chi-fi wireless IEM in person with audio recordings like this guy?



Brian Unboxed video tested (Soundcore) Liberty2Pro vs (Lypertek) Tevi vs (Sabbat) E12 Ultra, and the differences really showed.
Liberty2Pro was the most warm and least harsh. Tevi sounded like the winner, more full and punchy bass. The E12 Ultra seemed the most hollow and least pleasant.​
Before you say this kind of judgement is inaccurate, I watched a video of the AirPod Pro's vs Sony WF1000M3 prior to reading reviews and from the sound recordings I thought the Sony's had the more pleasurable sound.  This was backed up up by in person reviews I read afterwards.

I also read reviews on the Shanling.  Many users say its very pleasant but the bass in light which is in contrast with Bartigs review.
Other reviews also did not recommend the balanced-armature version and instead recommended the dynamic-driver for more bass.

I am looking for wireless IEMS, I already tried the AirPod Pros but was not happy with the amount of bass (They sounded better without ANC enabled).  Need to try Sony's in person.
I am okay with chi-fi but sucks there is no where to return them if they sound bad so I'm trying to gather information via reviews.

I just like sound quality.  Could care less for phone calls.  Don't care about ANC and isolation.
I don't like muddy bass.  It has to be tight && present.  The bass has to be balanced with the vocals too.


----------



## chinmie

Caipirina said:


> pretty much agreeing with all of the above. One thing though that some runners dislike is the thumping sound (which you get from pretty much all IEM style tws)
> 
> May I ask which marathon that was? Always looking for races that still allow headphones. Singapore i.e. does
> Biggest turn off at an IRONMAN 2 years back was that they strictly followed IAAF rules and banned all types of headphones.



didn't you have the Nillkin? i didn't have that stethoscope thumping sound with it. only that and (of course) the sabbat x12 that do not have that thumping sound in my collection


----------



## HiFlight

ld100 said:


> Which ones do you like? I was considering Jabras...


FWIW, I do quite enjoy the sound of my elite active 65t.  Used the App EQ to make a curve that suits my preferences exactly.
I suggest giving them a try rather than basing a purchase decision on the preferences of others.  I don't think I have ever owned a piece of audio gear that was liked by everyone!


----------



## howdy

HiFlight said:


> FWIW, I do quite enjoy the sound of my elite active 65t.  Used the App EQ to make a curve that suits my preferences exactly.
> I suggest giving them a try rather than basing a purchase decision on the preferences of others.  I don't think I have ever owned a piece of audio gear that was liked by everyone!


I do enjoy the Sq of mine as well just not as much as the others that I listed.


----------



## Minarets

Rozzko said:


> Hi
> What's give better sound?
> Shanling 100 or lypertek tevi?
> 
> I don't know which is better , and which to buy



the shanling sounded awesome but i went with the white pair as I prefer a more fun sound and not as analytical.  The tevi and more expensive shanling are both great and more flat or analytical like most audiophiles prefer.  The tevi gets louder if that means anything to you.   They don’t look as good on tho and stick out compared to the shanling.   I preferred the shanling.


----------



## Minarets

perfectly said.  Not the best at anything, but probably the best all round package.  Pretty much what I’ve been sticking too 


https://youtu.be/cG8PXdTlDag


----------



## FYLegend (Nov 4, 2019)

Thiago Guedes said:


> Hi folks,
> 
> On the market for new buds. I can get the Galaxy Bud's, Soundcore L2PRO and Jabra 65t for 199 in Canada and I would say that the most I would go for.
> 
> I understand 75t is around the corner but it should come around 229. Not sure if the waiting is worth tough.


Marley Liberate Air launched for 149$ but has gone to 179... It might go on sale again some time. Disappointed the Galaxy Buds haven't budged since launch... likely Samsung is price-fixing them despite sales on other accessories. You can save a bit by buying them from eBay for as low as 130  but they make you pay the customs handling outright (~20$) - even so it is generally cheaper but you risk getting used/grey-market.

I've been eyeing on the Soundcore or maybe I should get another budget one from Aliexpress, but the last few purchases have really soured my confidence in them.

The 65t doesn't sound bad to me but a) channel imbalance and b) awful sealing in noisy environments - I can't hear any bass whenever I'm commuting and the volume is not loud enough to drown background noise.


----------



## Caipirina

chinmie said:


> didn't you have the Nillkin? i didn't have that stethoscope thumping sound with it. only that and (of course) the sabbat x12 that do not have that thumping sound in my collection



I have to check that again ... i doin't know why I don't have much love for the Nillkin ... need to give them some more time, thanks for the reminder

Found a Sabbath X12 Pro (not Ultra)special for 31$ on AE, plain colors, ordered one as a back up, since my other X12 (Lezii brand) are only BT4.2 and I have connection issues when running.


----------



## go0gle

Thiago Guedes said:


> Hi folks,
> 
> On the market for new buds. I can get the Galaxy Bud's, Soundcore L2PRO and Jabra 65t for 199 in Canada and I would say that the most I would go for.
> 
> I understand 75t is around the corner but it should come around 229. Not sure if the waiting is worth tough.



I would try the L2Pro from a place with good return policy and see if you like them. To my ears they are sounding great so far.


----------



## tinyman392

carlosonunez said:


> *AirPods Pro:* AirPods sure have come a long way. Traditionally amazing pairing experience. Couldn't be easier on iOS, and is easier than most other truly wireless headphones on Android. *You can't update them yourself as far as I know[1]*. The original AirPods did not sound that great. _These_ are a completely different animal. Sound quality was incredible. They approximate the sound signature I get with the MW07+ headphones with slightly less clarity. Bass and mids are *much* cleaner on these than the original AirPods. Good soundstage; MW07+ feels bigger (still smaller than over the ears, but bigger than they should be given their size). AAC only, just like the original AirPods. Good call quality, as expected, but what *really* surprised me is that the MW07+ seems to have better call quality than these! This is a first for me. Control scheme is great; major improvement from the originals. Loving the force-touch button on the stem. Fit is a significant improvement over the original AirPods; I forget that these are in my ear almost immediately. Also, *these somehow nearly eliminate the thump noise that you get with other IEMs while walking, which is absolutely incredible[2]*. Transparency mode is about as good as the MW07, so okay, not great. MW07+ have better noise cancelling abilities, but these are very good. Case is awesome; it's like the original AirPods case, but rotated. Fits in coin pocket. While I ultimately gave these to my wife, I am seriously considering trading in my Momentums for a pair of these. Worth every single penny of the $250 I paid for them. *Highly recommend.
> *
> (Addendum: You can use these with Android, with a few caveats.
> 
> ...



All these features have to be set up through iOS:
[1] Updates are automatic through iOS: Settings > About > [Person's] AirPod Pros.  If there is an update, it should prompt to update here if it isn't already updated.  Current version is 2B584.
[2] The microphone that points towards the eardrum is actually what does this.  More specifically it's canceling out any noise that occurs within the eardrum and it does a very good job of it.  It also attributes to some of the "openness" that one may hear with them on.  If you turn off both transparency and noise canceling then you'll get the thumps again.  I've been told that the Sony WF-1000XM3, Bose, and I believe the MW07 cancel out ear canal noise as well (someone else quoted me saying they did), but haven't been able to confirm this myself.  Basically two things are being noise canceled, external noise and internal noise.  
[3] Two was to access this on iOS (and one on Android, must be setup on iOS first!): 1) open up control center (on bezel less phones swipe down from the right side of the screen, on all others swipe up from the bottom), then long/force press the volume controls and you'll see the "Noise Cancelation", "Off", and "Transparency" settings in there.  2) Settings > Bluetooth > [Person's] AirPod Pros > Press and Hold AirPods > [Left/Right/Both] > Noise Control (if not already selected) > enable cycling of "Off".


----------



## Timastyle

I'm wondering which ones have the best transparency mode. I'd like good SQ with some good thump and also control the amount of ambient noise gets let in. 

Is the Senn TWS the answer?


----------



## Caipirina

I know this is a bit off topic, but since many here use AliExpress, let me ask this question / raise a warning: 

Has anyone here had their stuff shipped by SunYou Express and actually received it? 

I have 2 deliveries stuck in Guanghzou after they allegedly went from Shenzen to HongKong back to mainland China, since then (10/15) no further update on tracking, while AE marks them as 'arrived in destination country' ... I found a review site on shipping services and it does not look good AT ALL. 

Now, for a recent order, I made sure (so i thought) by selecting POS Malaysia (which has worked well in the past) and now I see the seller has used SunYou! Now my money is tied up for 2 months before I can dispute and get it back. 


 

Guess the universe is telling me that I have too many TWE ...


----------



## karloil (Nov 5, 2019)

prfraczek said:


> how do you compare sound quality Lypertek Tevi vs Sennheiser Momentum. I am looking for upgrade  ie80. can you recommend anything better?



If you prefer quality bass punch, go with the Momentum TW. It has better bass quality versus the Tevi. The Tevi still has bass, but not as deep or as punchy as the Momentums.



Dobrescu George said:


> Fascinating, I had no idea.



Now you know


----------



## carlosonunez (Nov 5, 2019)

tinyman392 said:


> All these features have to be set up through iOS:
> [1] Updates are automatic through iOS: Settings > About > [Person's] AirPod Pros.  If there is an update, it should prompt to update here if it isn't already updated.  Current version is 2B584.
> [2] The microphone that points towards the eardrum is actually what does this.  More specifically it's canceling out any noise that occurs within the eardrum and it does a very good job of it.  It also attributes to some of the "openness" that one may hear with them on.  If you turn off both transparency and noise canceling then you'll get the thumps again.  I've been told that the Sony WF-1000XM3, Bose, and I believe the MW07 cancel out ear canal noise as well (someone else quoted me saying they did), but haven't been able to confirm this myself.  Basically two things are being noise canceled, external noise and internal noise.
> [3] Two was to access this on iOS (and one on Android, must be setup on iOS first!): 1) open up control center (on bezel less phones swipe down from the right side of the screen, on all others swipe up from the bottom), then long/force press the volume controls and you'll see the "Noise Cancelation", "Off", and "Transparency" settings in there.  2) Settings > Bluetooth > [Person's] AirPod Pros > Press and Hold AirPods > [Left/Right/Both] > Noise Control (if not already selected) > enable cycling of "Off".



The MW07s cancel thumps when noise cancelling is on, but they don't do as good of a job at it as the AirPods do. This makes sense somewhat since most noise cancelling algorithms are designed to cancel low-frequency sounds and thumps have a signature to them that can be preempted somewhat


----------



## webvan (Nov 5, 2019)

chinmie said:


> didn't you have the Nillkin? i didn't have that stethoscope thumping sound with it. only that and (of course) the sabbat x12 that do not have that thumping sound in my collection


Do the Nilikin have a special design ? By design IEMs will have that thump since they trap the air in the air canal and it gets compressed on each stride.

In spite of the claims about "vent to alleviate pressure" made by Apple they have that same thump too, to varying degrees admittedly. In ANC Off mode it's clearly there and annoying, in ANC On mode it's a tad less present but I hear some "tearing" in the sound likely due to the wind/pressure that gets to the mics and in Ambient it's less noticeable but then you hear all other noises too. While Apple's ambient is the best I've ever heard it still sounds a "processed" so you might as well use earbud style TWEs like the X12 that have zero thump and "natural ambient".


----------



## Coop

Caipirina said:


> Has anyone here had their stuff shipped by SunYou Express and actually received it?



Yes, all my orders from uncle Ali that were shipped through SunYou have arrived... Eventually... 

Every single one has taken a lot longer than expected. Longest it took was somewhere around 50-ish days iirc.


----------



## Caipirina

Coop said:


> Yes, all my orders from uncle Ali that were shipped through SunYou have arrived... Eventually...
> 
> Every single one has taken a lot longer than expected. Longest it took was somewhere around 50-ish days iirc.



Thanks for the reassurance that some of my stuff might still arrive


----------



## bronco1015

chinmie said:


> quick question: if not regarding the price difference, which one is better in sound, and also overall: the Mpow T5 or the Plantronics Backbeat Pro 5100? does the B Pro 5100 has APTX support?


Looked through the rest of the page only up to this point, so if you already have a decision then disregard i suppose. having owned both, the backbeat pro 5100 have a better feature set over all, but not for $124.99 USD mor than the T5. T5 can't be used individually, have a very forward sound with ample bass and sound pretty great for calls. Backbeat pro support HD calling, not applicable if your carrier doesn't provide it, but a nice feature none the less. Calls sound better on this headset than the 65T immo. Ran it through different tests for a review i did, with vacume noises, my birds, a loud TV, walking away from the phone etc. was able to create issues with them but a considerable distance from the phone and through some really thick walls. These have less treble than the T5 and less mids with lots of bass, but a really enjoyable fun sound as well in a different way. loved them. But not for the price. I'd wait if this purchase is for you, Check out the Mavin Air XR someone posted a couple pages back.


----------



## webvan

carlosonunez said:


> *AirPods Pro:* AirPods sure have come a long way.*(...)
> *
> (Addendum: You can use these with Android, with a few caveats.
> 
> ...



About 2, this is incorrect, like I wrote in my review the other day you CAN have the three mode ANC OFF/ANC ON/Ambient in Android, you just have to activate them in the iOS app AFTER you've paired the APPs with your Android.


----------



## Coop

As I'm a chronic insomniac, I'm looking for a set of wireless IEMs that I can use to help me get to sleep. 

I have tried a few things, but wired doesn't work (I woke up with a cable pretty tight around my neck a few times). I already have the Fiio BT cable to use with several of my IEMs, but this just doesn't work for me, the cable with the battery/control housings and blinky light is too annoying. So I got myself a set of the Galaxy buds, which are a big improvement, as there's no wire and blinking lights to annoy me. But they stick out too far to comfortably lay on one ear. 

Can you guys (and gals) recommend me a set of true wireless IEMs?

Some brainfarts about my preferences:
I'd prefer something that has a somewhat similar shape (as in no stems sticking out like airpods or cylindrical body etc) as the Galaxy buds, but as small and physically flat as possible. But just a few mm less thickness than a Galaxy buds would probably be enough to work.

Also I'd prefer no buttons that can get triggered when laying on my side. Touch controls are ok, but being able to disable them like with the Galaxy buds would be a big plus. 

Noise cancelling etc. is not a requirement.

I haven't found any yet, but the Shure/Westone style small diameter nozzles would be awesome as I have fairly narrow earcanals. The more common larger nozzle diameters usually aren't a big issue, but limit my choice of eartips to single flange silicone.

As I want to use them for falling asleep, battery life is not that important. 2 hours would be plenty, but loud control or battery low tones are an absolute no-go.


----------



## webvan

tinyman392 said:


> All these features have to be set up through iOS:
> [1] Updates are automatic through iOS: Settings > About > [Person's] AirPod Pros.  If there is an update, it should prompt to update here if it isn't already updated.  Current version is 2B584.
> [2] The microphone that points towards the eardrum is actually what does this.  More specifically it's canceling out any noise that occurs within the eardrum and it does a very good job of it.  It also attributes to some of the "openness" that one may hear with them on.  If you turn off both transparency and noise canceling then you'll get the thumps again.  I've been told that the Sony WF-1000XM3, Bose, *and I believe the MW07 cancel out ear canal noise as well* (someone else quoted me saying they did), but haven't been able to confirm this myself.  Basically two things are being noise canceled, external noise and internal noise.
> [3] Two was to access this on iOS (and one on Android, must be setup on iOS first!): 1) open up control center (on bezel less phones swipe down from the right side of the screen, on all others swipe up from the bottom), then long/force press the volume controls and you'll see the "Noise Cancelation", "Off", and "Transparency" settings in there.  2) Settings > Bluetooth > [Person's] AirPod Pros > Press and Hold AirPods > [Left/Right/Both] > Noise Control (if not already selected) > enable cycling of "Off".



No the MW07+ does not have an internal mic for what's called "Feedback ANC",  hence the "mild" ANC described here and in reviews I suppose, the outside mic is used for what's called "Forcefeed ANC". As far as TWEs go, the Sony xm3, the Libratone Track Air+ and the APPs have both. Not sure about the Echo Buds but given how effective their ANR is said to be I wouldn't be surprised if they had it too...in spite of Bose's claims that their ANC will be better 

Talking about the Echo Buds, are there more people here who got them ? The feedback so far has been excellent on all counts !


----------



## gibletzor

webvan said:


> Talking about the Echo Buds, are there more people here who got them ? The feedback so far has been excellent on all counts !



Mine will be here today.  I'll be sure to update everyone after I get some time with them.


----------



## bronco1015

Rozzko said:


> Hi
> What's give better sound?
> Shanling 100 or lypertek tevi?
> 
> I don't know which is better , and which to buy


I have the MTW 100BA, mids could be better, not much depth to them. Wish they had a bit mor treble, though feel like they've gotten a bit better in both aspects as i've listened mor. AKA. brain burnin lol. That said, these are fantastic for classical, jazz etc. Don't feel like especially in TWS that any pair should only sound best with 1 genre, and not necessarily saying that's the case here. I just am not reaching for them when i want to hear Devin Townsend Project for example. Also, have been out of town for several days, and so will give them another listen when i get home. I only brought my Sennheiser Momentums and Anbes 359. Great duo imo. The Tevi's are great all arounders, but should be a hair less maybe by $30 USD. But they are pretty great feature wise as well. Both can be used indipendently, IPX7, nice case, though i like Mpow's take on the case better, eel like it's better suited for the case. That might sound weird, it could be because i owned the T5s first, so maybe a weird bias> The Tevi's are also pretty great for calls as well, and charge via USB-C. They are not bass monsters like the T5s, which aren't muddy, they just have considerably mor bass. I'd say if you can, and returns are easy, get both. And if your budget is such you can keep them both, you probably won't be disapointed. But out of those 2, best bang for your buck etc, the Tevi's are the better way to go.


----------



## hifi80sman

chinmie said:


> @hifi80sman  if i remember correctly, you had owned the Galaxy buds, MPow T5, and the Backbeat Pro 5100? how do you compare them purely on sound and feature wise (not factoring in the price)?


Sound, Calls, Comfort probably all go to the BackBeat Pro 5100, assuming you prefer a meaty bass response.  Mids are a natural, perhaps a bit pulled back, while the highs get a little splash, but they are not fatiguing at all.  The Galaxy Buds have a clean, airy sound, but the bass left me wanting.

Features, both the Galaxy Buds and the BackBeat Pro 5100 have an App where you can customize the buttons, however, the BackBeat Pro 5100 does not have EQ or Ambient Mode, so the edge here goes to the Galaxy Buds.

If you don't care about Ambient Mode, then I think the BackBeat Pro 5100 comes out on top.

The MPOW T5 are the best value, but I wouldn't lump them in with the Galaxy Buds or the BackBeat Pro 5100, which both are just more mature products.


----------



## FYLegend

Wavefun has confirmed the Xpods 3T has 600mah battery (vs 400 of the original) in the case and Qi charging. Now we wait until 11.11 for a sale price...


----------



## mjb152

jant71 said:


> We have the latest combo creation...QCR Q1
> 
> 
> 
> ...


this could be very interestring for running,   just add music to the case and run with that.  I'm going to order it


----------



## zazaboy

oke I quoted this from a youtube user from a earlier video here... comparison between tevi mpow t5 and l2pro... .quote: This is shocking! I own both. The Tevi sounds great if you don’t care for much bass , but there is no comparison to the L2pro. The Tevi is grossly overpriced by about $45.  Buy the MPOW T5. It’s a Tevi w/o the graphene driver that can be Eq’d to sound nearly identical and it’s $40. The knowles BA in the L2Pro is so much crisper and cleaner than the Tevi. The L2pro has incredible textured bass, a huge 10 mm driver,  where the Tevi’s has a dynamic 6mm driver and the bass is balanced at best, more sub bass. I’ve tested over 50 TWS’ and The L2pro sounds similar to the Sony 1000-xm3 and is one of the best sounding tws’ on the market. It’s one weakness is the lack of a manual EQ and I’d like it to have more mid range. The microphone on the L2Pro isn’t great either. Soundcore is releasing a new version of the L2Pro on 2-3 weeks that fixes some of the initial hissing and microphone issues.  I’d strongly recommend not using the stock tips on either they are garbage. Get some spinfits 360’s or some JVC spiral dots. Trust me wide bore ear tips make a HUGE difference in the sound.


----------



## zazaboy (Nov 5, 2019)

edit


----------



## zazaboy (Nov 5, 2019)

btw there is a cheaper version of soundcore liberty pro 2.... tws the Soundcore Liberty Neo this one is cheaper anyone tried this.... would like to know if its great deal or not? anyone has a insight in this tws?

review:



amazon link

https://www.amazon.com/Soundcore-Bluetooth-Headphones-Noise-Canceling-Sweatproof/dp/B07MCGZK3B

edit: another youtube user said ... quote:
FYI: The Liberty Lite is slighty lighter but the Neo has slightly fuller sound. They do look very similiar.

these are short impressions so yeah I could only find limited info anyway.. the soundcore neo has a graphene driver... which I think they could be bassy/ and good dynamics from earlier experience and good mids...

soundcore liberty pro 2 has a knowless driver in it... so seperation needs to be on point here.. due that I dont have them both but have experience with both drivers...  I think this summerize it a bit for me at least

btw I like graphene drivers a lot so I think soundcore liberty neo is gonna be on my order list


----------



## yorosello (Nov 5, 2019)

Caipirina said:


> I know this is a bit off topic, but since many here use AliExpress, let me ask this question / raise a warning:
> 
> Has anyone here had their stuff shipped by SunYou Express and actually received it?
> 
> ...


I'm new with AE. Just about to use their service on 11/11. So may I know which shipping company is more preferred there? Does the free shipping company AE offered like the china post registered air mail or aliexpress standard shipping is dependable? Thanks in advance


----------



## msooffutt

New firmware update for the Sony wf1000xm3s.  Suppose to fix iOS connection issues.  This is a much needed fix. Downloading now.  It’s failed to update twice now, but hopefully it’ll kick in soon and update.  I’ll see how it works after the update, but I think I will keep the app pros anyway.  Not happy with the sound, but these are great for work.  I may also keep the Sony’s if the fix works.


----------



## CardigdanWalk

Anyone in the UK considering the APP: you can save £25 if you are quick:

https://www.hotukdeals.com/deals/airpods-pro-3324651


----------



## chinmie

bronco1015 said:


> Looked through the rest of the page only up to this point, so if you already have a decision then disregard i suppose. having owned both, the backbeat pro 5100 have a better feature set over all, but not for $124.99 USD mor than the T5. T5 can't be used individually, have a very forward sound with ample bass and sound pretty great for calls. Backbeat pro support HD calling, not applicable if your carrier doesn't provide it, but a nice feature none the less. Calls sound better on this headset than the 65T immo. Ran it through different tests for a review i did, with vacume noises, my birds, a loud TV, walking away from the phone etc. was able to create issues with them but a considerable distance from the phone and through some really thick walls. These have less treble than the T5 and less mids with lots of bass, but a really enjoyable fun sound as well in a different way. loved them. But not for the price. I'd wait if this purchase is for you, Check out the Mavin Air XR someone posted a couple pages back.





hifi80sman said:


> Sound, Calls, Comfort probably all go to the BackBeat Pro 5100, assuming you prefer a meaty bass response.  Mids are a natural, perhaps a bit pulled back, while the highs get a little splash, but they are not fatiguing at all.  The Galaxy Buds have a clean, airy sound, but the bass left me wanting.
> 
> Features, both the Galaxy Buds and the BackBeat Pro 5100 have an App where you can customize the buttons, however, the BackBeat Pro 5100 does not have EQ or Ambient Mode, so the edge here goes to the Galaxy Buds.
> 
> ...



thanks! wow.. even the Galaxy Buds to me has ample amount of bass, i don't think i would like the Backbeat Pro sound if it is more bass focused than the G Buds


----------



## Caipirina

yorosello said:


> I'm new with AE. Just about to use their service on 11/11. So may I know which shipping company is more preferred there? Does the free shipping company AE offered like the china post registered air mail or aliexpress standard shipping is dependable? Thanks in advance



I have been using AE for several years now and in general: stuff arrives   That SunYou thing is new for me and the first time I am worried. There is something i think called Yawen super economic, which takes forever (but still arrives, sellers for cheap items like 1$ phone cases like using those) ... i hear good things about ePacket and PostNL. For my location, I have the best experiences with Singapore Post. Your milage may vary on your own location and how long your country's customs officers like to sit on parcels.

Only once I paid extra for DHL, hoping that would speed things up, but instead that raised extra flags at customs and was taken hostage there for weeks ...


----------



## chinmie

webvan said:


> Do the Nilikin have a special design ? By design IEMs will have that thump since they trap the air in the air canal and it gets compressed on each stride.
> 
> In spite of the claims about "vent to alleviate pressure" made by Apple they have that same thump too, to varying degrees admittedly. In ANC Off mode it's clearly there and annoying, in ANC On mode it's a tad less present but I hear some "tearing" in the sound likely due to the wind/pressure that gets to the mics and in Ambient it's less noticeable but then you hear all other noises too. While Apple's ambient is the best I've ever heard it still sounds a "processed" so you might as well use earbud style TWEs like the X12 that have zero thump and "natural ambient".



it's not too isolating, like open backed IEMs. even when it creates it's seal and i push it in further, it won't have that vacuum effect. 
the downside is it doesn't block outside noise too much, especially mid freq noise. the plus side is i can use it while riding to block wind noise, and can still hear engine noise, horns, even talk clearly with someone next to me.
it's my favorite TWS for riding and around the house, but for noisier places I'd go with my GBuds


----------



## srinivasvignesh

Have been using my MW07 Plus for few days. Sharing some experience

- Very solid sound quality. Very nice staging. Weaknesses may show in some very highly congested tracks, but otherwise excellent.
- Excellent for phone calls. Had a couple of calls in extremely noisy environments. Absolutely no complaints on this. Even the Jabra 65t failed at this. Have not tried the airpods, but this has to be close.
- Slightly uncomfortable if you have small ear lobes.
- If you like to listen in very high volumes, this may not satisfy, however,  for me it was more than adequate.
- Very natural ambient noise.
- ANC is subtle, but not so bad that I would consider it useless. While definitely not close to QC20 levels, I am able to appreciate the ANC and glad I have it. It has definitely helped.
- No lag with Netflix.

Hope this helps.


----------



## yorosello (Nov 5, 2019)

Caipirina said:


> I have been using AE for several years now and in general: stuff arrives   That SunYou thing is new for me and the first time I am worried. There is something i think called Yawen super economic, which takes forever (but still arrives, sellers for cheap items like 1$ phone cases like using those) ... i hear good things about ePacket and PostNL. For my location, I have the best experiences with Singapore Post. Your milage may vary on your own location and how long your country's customs officers like to sit on parcels.
> 
> Only once I paid extra for DHL, hoping that would speed things up, but instead that raised extra flags at customs and was taken hostage there for weeks ...


Since you had mentioned pos malaysia, I can expect the shipping duration to my country would be similar more or less. Maybe, only the customs might take longer than yours.

I used singpost last time & it took about 2 weeks /more for my stuff to arrive... the custom here + our local post is just damn slow. Slower than other shipping company here.


----------



## actorlife

rulerofrecords said:


> Have not been here in a while. Could these SSK be an upgrade to my MpowT5? If not, with 11.11 in mind what would be for under 100 USD/Euros? cheers


They are amazing for the price. I'd say give them a try and if you don't like them return them. It's Amazon. I'm returning the Koseton today because of the constant breakup. They were great on my Android box, but the sound is a bit veiled for my taste. I had a couple of coupons and got them for $21. Too bad. Hello guys.


----------



## jlcsoft

Good offer for the  Sabbat E12 Ultra on 11.11 on alixpress, $48,29.

https://es.aliexpress.com/item/3304...chweb0_0,searchweb201602_2,searchweb201603_55


----------



## rulerofrecords

actorlife said:


> They are amazing for the price. I'd say give them a try and if you don't like them return them. It's Amazon. I'm returning the Koseton today because of the constant breakup. They were great on my Android box, but the sound is a bit veiled for my taste. I had a couple of coupons and got them for $21. Too bad. Hello guys.


the thought had crossed my mind. Maybe I'll have a look at 11.11?


----------



## actorlife

rulerofrecords said:


> the thought had crossed my mind. Maybe I'll have a look at 11.11?


Ah I didn't see u were in Germany. They are $21 in the US. If you can get it for about $35 they are worth it. They can compare to TWS over $150. I'm not kidding. If you find the Anbes 359 they are about the same. Also Ofusho(review in my sig) are great if you can find them. Good luck.


----------



## Blueshound24 (Nov 5, 2019)

Blueshound24 said:


> I ordered the Shanling MTW100 three weeks ago from Shenzhenaudio via Aliexpress. I am beyond impatient for this delivery and have messaged them a couple of times.
> 
> Their last reply was,
> _"Hi friend, We understand your feeling. We will follow up the package status for you. If the package didn't arrive during the handle time. We will resend or process the refund for you. Please don't worry.Any question, feel free to contact."_
> How long does Ali usually take to ship to the USA?





Caipirina said:


> I have been using AE for several years now and in general: stuff arrives   That SunYou thing is new for me and the first time I am worried. There is something i think called Yawen super economic, which takes forever (but still arrives, sellers for cheap items like 1$ phone cases like using those) ... i hear good things about ePacket and PostNL. For my location, I have the best experiences with Singapore Post. Your milage may vary on your own location and how long your country's customs officers like to sit on parcels.
> 
> Only once I paid extra for DHL, hoping that would speed things up, but instead that raised extra flags at customs and was taken hostage there for weeks ...




After 3 weeks of waiting, I complained enough to Shenzhenaudio at Aliexpress that I thought they got lost in the mail and *after me complaining enough they shipped another mtw via DHL, and* *it arrived yesterday, 4 weeks and one day after I ordered the original order from Ali. *

And now when I check tracking for the original mtw I ordered it actually NOW FINALLY shows up and should arrive tomorrow. lol.

When Shenzhenaudio said they would ship a replacement via DHL they asked to refuse delivery when, or if, the original shows up, so it will go back.

So this has been a frustrating experience for me with Ali and I'm not sure if I will ever order there again. Meanwhile, the mtw finally became available at Amazon USA a couple weeks ago and I could have had them WAY sooner.
If I ever order from Ali again I would certainly consider expedited shipping.


----------



## yorosello

Blueshound24 said:


> After 3 weeks of waiting, I complained enough to Shenzhenaudio at Aliexpress that I thought they got lost in the mail and after me complaining enough they shipped another mtw via DHL, and *it arrived yesterday, 4 weeks and one day after I ordered the original order from Ali. *
> 
> And now when I check tracking for the original mtw I ordered it actually NOW FINALLY shows up and should arrive tomorrow. lol.
> 
> ...


This is what I'm afraid of. That's why I prefer local online store over aliexpress


----------



## Blueshound24

yorosello said:


> This is what I'm afraid of. That's why I prefer local online store over aliexpress



Yup, waiting over 4 weeks was intolerable, especially when I am used to 1 or 2 day delivery via Amazon USA.


----------



## yorosello

Blueshound24 said:


> Yup, waiting over 4 weeks was intolerable, especially when I am used to 1 or 2 day delivery via Amazon USA.


Damn, so like me. I even used same day service if it was available


----------



## webvan

chinmie said:


> it's not too isolating, like open backed IEMs. even when it creates it's seal and i push it in further, it won't have that vacuum effect.
> the downside is it doesn't block outside noise too much, especially mid freq noise. the plus side is i can use it while riding to block wind noise, and can still hear engine noise, horns, even talk clearly with someone next to me.
> it's my favorite TWS for riding and around the house, but for noisier places I'd go with my GBuds



Interesting, sounds a bit like the Bose QC20 or TaoTronics EP-01 (both wired ANC IEMs) they don't have much passive Isolation to speak of, probably because they have this grille in the back. 

It seems they block more wind noise than the X12? These work great for running but not so much for bike riding due to the wind noise.


----------



## paddyberger

I’ve got the LP2 coming tomorrow. I hoping the version I get is the newer type without the hiss I’ve read about.

I ordered from Amazon so can return if it’s there.


----------



## Caipirina

jlcsoft said:


> Good offer for the  Sabbat E12 Ultra on 11.11 on alixpress, $48,29.
> 
> https://es.aliexpress.com/item/3304...chweb0_0,searchweb201602_2,searchweb201603_55



And here are the x12 ultra for 39$ 

https://s.click.aliexpress.com/e/ts5RekZtD


----------



## WesennTony

New version is coming.. Nuarl NT01ax on sale on Amazon for $89. https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B...42e-e8f213ef368b&pf_rd_r=RADY7YC3NS4G8E18H384

Still my favorite in terms of SQ and sound isolation, though a bit bulky.


----------



## rhsauer (Nov 5, 2019)

msooffutt said:


> New firmware update for the Sony wf1000xm3s.  Suppose to fix iOS connection issues.  This is a much needed fix. Downloading now.  It’s failed to update twice now, but hopefully it’ll kick in soon and update.  I’ll see how it works after the update, but I think I will keep the app pros anyway.  Not happy with the sound, but these are great for work.  I may also keep the Sony’s if the fix works.



I updated my WF1000XM3s last night to the new firmware.  The update process takes a while, and failed twice while trying to perform the update from my iPhone 11 Pro — possibly related to the connectivity problem the update is supposed to fix.  

I haven’t had much time to use these earphones since completing the update, but I did attach my iPhone to my iMac to check the Bluetooth connection speed using Console, and the connection speed drops immediately from 256kbps to127kbps and stays there (just as it did before the update).  

This problem might be specific to the iPhone 11 series and these earphones.  When I connect the WF-1000XM3s to my iPad, the connection speed stays between 256kbps and 244kbps.  Bottom line:  If this update was intended to fix the quality of the Bluetooth connection to iPhone 11 series phones, it doesn’t seem to have done that.   Needless to say, the sound quality, when listening at 127kbps, reflects the low connection speed (i.e, it degrades).  Most other earphone models are connecting a reasonable speeds to my iPhone 11 Pro.


----------



## d3myz

Been away a couple days, but Just got an e-mail from Anker regarding my replacement of the L2Pros to their new version. Also, this is a pretty basic, but interesting review. I need to check out the galaxy buds.


----------



## Cretz42

JOSELICHI said:


> If you are interested... TRANYA RIMOR, with ANC. Presale.
> 
> https://www.tranya.com/rimor-true-wirless-earbuds-p0022.html



Just purchased, TW IEM is a disease really.
I'm expecting a huge eye roll from the missus when these get in...


----------



## jagar46

I’ve ordered the Liberty 2 Pro’s, should get them Friday, never tried a none cabled IEM so hope I’m not too disappointed.


----------



## Matez

Cuebbing said:


> I have/had many TWS and tend to grab the Sennheiser Momentum TWS



I'm going to audition these in the upcoming days. I liked the first Momentum released way back so perhaps I'll land at the Sennheiser camp again after all those years...


----------



## msooffutt

rhsauer said:


> I updated mine last night.  The process takes a while and failed twice on my iPhone 11 Pro (possibly related to the connectivity problem the update is supposed to fix).  I haven’t had much chance to use these earphones since completing the update, but I will say that I attached my iPhone to my iMac and checked the Bluetooth connection speed while using these phones and the connection speed drops immediately from 256kbps to127kbps and stays there — just as it did before the update.  This problem seems specific to the iPhone 11 series and these earphones — when I connect the WF-1000XM3s to my iPad, the connection speed stays between 256kbps and 244kbps.  So if this update was intended to fix the quality of the Bluetooth connection to iPhone 11 series phones, it doesn’t seem to have done that.   Needless to say, the sound quality, when listening at 127kbps, reflects the low connection speed (i.e, it degrades).


That’s unfortunate.  I’ve only used them for a short time, but still having connections issues.  Sony really isn’t very good at fixing firmware issues.  I think they need to stick to the basics and forget about the bells and whistles.  They make incredibly sounding speakers, so it’s really too bad.


----------



## rcmo

Rozzko said:


> Hi
> What's give better sound?
> Shanling 100 or lypertek tevi?
> 
> I don't know which is better , and which to buy



Can't say about the Tevi yet but I'm head over heels with the Shanling BA. Incredibly comfortable, tiny, detailed, great highs and enough bass extension for me (not punchy, though). I am definitely not a BA guy and this might well sound as a heresy but I am rediscovering my good old AT CK10...


----------



## rhsauer

msooffutt said:


> That’s unfortunate.  I’ve only used them for a short time, but still having connections issues.  Sony really isn’t very good at fixing firmware issues.  I think they need to stick to the basics and forget about the bells and whistles.  They make incredibly sounding speakers, so it’s really too bad.



Are you using the Sonys with and iPhone 11 series phone or some other device?  Anyone else have any experience using the Sony WF1000XM3 with an iPhone 11 series phone?  (I’m wondering if the problems I’m having are indicative of a general incompatibility between the WF1000MX3 and the iPhone 11 — or if my Sony earphones are simply defective.)


----------



## jasaero

rcmo said:


> Can't say about the Tevi yet but I'm head over heels with the Shanling BA. Incredibly comfortable, tiny, detailed, great highs and enough bass extension for me (not punchy, though). I am definitely not a BA guy and this might well sound as a heresy but I am rediscovering my good old AT CK10...



I like the Shanling BA also and agree it's not too punchy, but does have enough bass.  Pretty darn good for the price and like the small case...even though other say it's cheap and such.  Seems like a different design goal that other cases mostly in that it's made to fling closed so you don't need to push it closed.


----------



## clerkpalmer

After almost a week, I am leaning strongly toward returning my APP.  I have too many better sounding options to want to reach for them. Not necessarily dissing them but I do think the sound quality leaves a lot to be desired.  For 250, I expected better. The sonys are available for 150, and seem like a better value.  Even though they lack sweatproofing, my guess is they will survive a little sweat.


----------



## tlau1125

JOSELICHI said:


> If you are interested... TRANYA RIMOR, with ANC. Presale.
> 
> https://www.tranya.com/rimor-true-wirless-earbuds-p0022.html


I am not sure what they mean by "Environmental Noise Cancellation for Microphone" (ENC).  The graphics seems to suggest ENC can "filter out the noise so you can concentrate on your own world", but I haven't seen anything indicating how to switch it on or off.


----------



## msooffutt

rhsauer said:


> Are you using the Sonys with and iPhone 11 series phone or some other device?  Anyone else have any experience using the Sony WF1000XM3 with an iPhone 11 series phone?  (I’m wondering if the problems I’m having are indicative of a general incompatibility between the WF1000MX3 and the iPhone 11 — or if my Sony earphones are simply defective.)


Yeah, I’m using a 11 pro max.  My problem is that they don’t reliably connect when I put them on.  About every other time I have to put them back in the case and try again.  Once it’s playing music it’s usually ok.  Might be a that it’s not playing well with iOS 13.  Non of my other earphones are having this issue.


----------



## msooffutt

What do you all think about the Radsone hi Rez app?  I was searching for a iOS player that had a equalizer and I came upon this one.  So far I’m kinda liking it with my AirPod pros.  I have it on a preset for rock and it sounds pretty good.  Thing I like is that it has presets that you can then fine tune with a 10 band equalizer.


----------



## Rickyearl

So, been away for a while.  Seems like, from reading, the MW07+ and Senn MTW still rule the roost, SQ-wise.  Is that true?

I have the original MW07.  Is the difference between them and the MW07+ noticeable from an SQ standpoint?  I get the ANC, and BT5, and the battery, and the case, and the transparency thing are all improvements, but do they sound any different?  If so, the white marble and black KDs look pretty sharp - maybe worth selling my Grey Terrazzo MW07s.

Are the AirPods Pro worth picking up?  The first Airpods are the only ones I've tried - they were awful.  Worse than the wired buds that come in the iphone box.  Everyone says these sound "a lot better," but that's kind of a low bar to clear.  Are they Jabra good?  MW07 good?  Earin M2 good?

Is Earin dead?  Seems like it.  If so, I might keep the M2 as a sort of collectors item.  Any place to get the grey matching "complys" that came with it?


----------



## Blueshound24 (Nov 5, 2019)

paddyberger said:


> I’ve got the LP2 coming tomorrow. I hoping the version I get is the newer type without the hiss I’ve read about.
> 
> I ordered from Amazon so can return if it’s there.







I sent a message to Soundcore asking when the new (less hiss) revamped version Liberty 2 Pro would be available and they said it is now ready. So hopefully the hiss is gone or at least lessened. I am seriously thinking about getting them as well.

I just heard back from them yesterday.



> Dear customer,
> 
> Thanks for contacting us.
> 
> ...


----------



## paddyberger

That’s awesome, thank you for this.

Keep reading good things about the LP2, interested to see how the sound.


----------



## Blueshound24

paddyberger said:


> That’s awesome, thank you for this.
> 
> Keep reading good things about the LP2, interested to see how the sound.




I see you are in the UK but the link is for Amazon USA, so hopefully yours will be the new version.


----------



## Chrisdu18e

Coop said:


> As I'm a chronic insomniac, I'm looking for a set of wireless IEMs that I can use to help me get to sleep.
> 
> I have tried a few things, but wired doesn't work (I woke up with a cable pretty tight around my neck a few times). I already have the Fiio BT cable to use with several of my IEMs, but this just doesn't work for me, the cable with the battery/control housings and blinky light is too annoying. So I got myself a set of the Galaxy buds, which are a big improvement, as there's no wire and blinking lights to annoy me. But they stick out too far to comfortably lay on one ear.
> 
> ...



The Earin M2 could be an interesting choice. Really small, light and good SQ. For the sleep, I think it's a good option.


----------



## chinmie

webvan said:


> Interesting, sounds a bit like the Bose QC20 or TaoTronics EP-01 (both wired ANC IEMs) they don't have much passive Isolation to speak of, probably because they have this grille in the back.
> 
> It seems they block more wind noise than the X12? These work great for running but not so much for bike riding due to the wind noise.



it definitely blocks more than the X12. it's a happy medium between open isolation earbuds/airpods style and full isolation IEM types.


----------



## hifi80sman (Nov 5, 2019)

clerkpalmer said:


> After almost a week, I am leaning strongly toward returning my APP.  I have too many better sounding options to want to reach for them. Not necessarily dissing them but I do think the sound quality leaves a lot to be desired.  For 250, I expected better. The sonys are available for 150, and seem like a better value.  Even though they lack sweatproofing, my guess is they will survive a little sweat.


They do fine with a bit of sweat (maybe more).  I use them for the gym all the time, and granted, I typically wear them when weight training, but they are still perfectly fine.

I felt the same about the APP.  I actually liked a lot about them, but the sound just was a nagging feeling the the back of my head, which was basically the feeling of my bank account with $250 less and the average sound reminding me of that every second.


----------



## Blueshound24 (Nov 5, 2019)

Appears MW07 Plus is available on Amazon.

https://www.amazon.com/Master-Dynamic-MW07-Wireless-Earphones/dp/B07TV2YDRY/


----------



## sanity8me

So let me get this straight...

I haven't checked this thread in a few weeks and I come back to find out that the Airpods Pro are the best in class TWS in regards to mic, comfort, ANC, and have way above average SQ?

Is there really nothing that comes close to being such a complete package? Granted you can get better SQ, but I need a good mic for work calls, good ANC for yard work and travel, and I need it to be COMFORTABLE which, after so my years being on this forum, is the most underrated discussion point here at headfi. 

Too bad I have an Android - Pixel 4 XL - and not the biggest fan of the Airpod design in general, but I guess I'll just hold off for now. The good news is that the Airpods Pro will now help set a new benchmark for all other brands. Fingers crossed.


----------



## FYLegend

JOSELICHI said:


> If you are interested... TRANYA RIMOR, with ANC. Presale.
> 
> https://www.tranya.com/rimor-true-wirless-earbuds-p0022.html


Already sold out??? Also doesn't seem like real ANC. ENC just refers to passive noise isolation while CVC is used for calls. Nice to see them finally use USB-Type C, but I have doubts whether it truly supports Type C to Type C cables. At this price point, it have been nice to have either Qi charging and/or AptX...

Any more news about a budget (<150$ USD) Ambient Sound + Type C + AptX TWS?


----------



## hifi80sman

sanity8me said:


> So let me get this straight...
> 
> I haven't checked this thread in a few weeks and I come back to find out that the Airpods Pro are the best in class TWS in regards to mic, comfort, ANC, and have way above average SQ?
> 
> ...


If you're an iOS user, they are the complete package, sans SQ, which is a solid 7/10.

Switching gears a bit, but I also picked up the Bowers & Wilkins PX5, which sound absolutely stunning.  aptX adaptive and all that jazz!  Great for calls, too!

Back to the thread...if the APP had an iOS integrated EQ that interacted directly with the on-board DSP, I think you'd arguably have the most complete package out there (assuming the driver can handle EQ).


----------



## sanity8me

hifi80sman said:


> If you're an iOS user, they are the complete package, sans SQ, which is a solid 7/10.
> 
> Switching gears a bit, but I also picked up the Bowers & Wilkins PX5, which sound absolutely stunning.  aptX adaptive and all that jazz!  Great for calls, too!
> 
> Back to the thread...if the APP had an iOS integrated EQ that interacted directly with the on-board DSP, I think you'd arguably have the most complete package out there (assuming the driver can handle EQ).



Is there even anything that's been announced for the near future that could potentially compete with the Airpods Pro in regards to being a complete package? 

Regarding the PX5, I'd actually so prefer something like these, but don't think they'll hold up for outside use, especially yard work...


----------



## tma6

sanity8me said:


> Is there even anything that's been announced for the near future that could potentially compete with the Airpods Pro in regards to being a complete package?
> 
> Regarding the PX5, I'd actually so prefer something like these, but don't think they'll hold up for outside use, especially yard work...




MW07+ for me is the closest in theory. Had to return two different sets due to connectivity issues unfortunately, but they had awesome battery life, ANC and Transparency, fantastic sound, great call quality (on par with the APP), and a super nice case and design. Right now I'm trying out APP and I definitely like them, but agree that there are some SQ issues particularly in the highs. Still going to use them for the full 14 day return period to see if they're keepers. Right now the feature set on the APP with an iPhone is just seamless, and the ANC/Transparency works sooo well. Surprising the APP also work with my windows computer with ease. The SQ is definitely not the best, but it's also not the worst and it actually provides a really nice casual listening experience - though it breaks down somewhat when you really start paying attention. I'm also realizing that since I'm usually using my earbuds outdoors in NYC, this ends up inevitably hindering the SQ of better sounding TWS anyway, and the effectiveness of the APP's ANC makes a big difference in maintaining SQ despite loud outside noise.


----------



## howdy

Anyone have solutions to getting the Sennheiser MTW to connect to the app? It connects to my phone right away but not the app, normally I would not care but I want to update it. There app sucks!


----------



## Wiet Rasjidgandha

rcmo said:


> Can't say about the Tevi yet but I'm head over heels with the Shanling BA. Incredibly comfortable, tiny, detailed, great highs and enough bass extension for me (not punchy, though). I am definitely not a BA guy and this might well sound as a heresy but I am rediscovering my good old AT CK10...


I have several tws, i love Tevi fitted with Comply. Tranya B530 fitted with JVC spiral dot tips also good. Unfortunately, my Tranya left earbud does not work, but Tranya sent me the replacement immediately


----------



## gibletzor

Got my Echo Buds today.  Didn't get a whole lot of time to spend with them, but so far they sound excellent, Ambient Passthrough is clearer and less artificial sounding than my Galaxy Buds and the Bose ANR works pretty well.  With the stock tips it takes it from barely any noise reduction with it off to being equivalent to very well sealing tips.  With better tips, it's damn near silent.  I work in a manufacturing plant and it almost makes it feel like I'm in a normal office!   I'll do more music testing the next couple of days and do some 1:1 comparisons with the Galaxy Buds and a couple others.

Right now the only fault I can find is the lack of Qi charging and Amazon deciding to use Micro-USB instead of USB-C.  Not a deal breaker, but kinda boneheaded at the end of 2019.  I would have gladly paid another $20 or so to have those 2 features.


----------



## sanity8me

tma6 said:


> MW07+ for me is the closest in theory. Had to return two different sets due to connectivity issues unfortunately, but they had awesome battery life, ANC and Transparency, fantastic sound, great call quality (on par with the APP), and a super nice case and design. Right now I'm trying out APP and I definitely like them, but agree that there are some SQ issues particularly in the highs. Still going to use them for the full 14 day return period to see if they're keepers. Right now the feature set on the APP with an iPhone is just seamless, and the ANC/Transparency works sooo well. Surprising the APP also work with my windows computer with ease. The SQ is definitely not the best, but it's also not the worst and it actually provides a really nice casual listening experience - though it breaks down somewhat when you really start paying attention. I'm also realizing that since I'm usually using my earbuds outdoors in NYC, this ends up inevitably hindering the SQ of better sounding TWS anyway, and the effectiveness of the APP's ANC makes a big difference in maintaining SQ despite loud outside noise.



You're right, I seemed to have overlooked the new MW07+. Maybe there's hope for me after all...

To be honest, I always figured they weren't too comfortable because of their shape and design, but I'm reading that some people are actually using them for extended periods of time with no discomfort. How do they compare in this regard to the less bulkier APP?

How are they for important calls, like for work? Any delay? APP better suited for this?

I'm also reading that the ANC is on par with APP, but Sony wf-1000xm3 still are king in this area. Wonder how much of a difference there is here.

How did you like the ambient mode? Wonder if I could use them for road biking.


----------



## soullinker20

ArjenIsM3 said:


> Right so I need some help picking my next purchase. I've given up on my search for a good pair of ANC over ears for now since the PX7 and IO6 disappointed me for different reasons. However, I do need something that plays music over BT since all I have right now is a pair of Sennheiser IE80. Those are wired and my phone (P30 Pro) doesn't have a 3.5mm jack. Could get an adapter for it but I've decided I want to go wireless. I still want some ANC cans in the near future so these will be a temporary / backup option. Budget is around 100 euros. Sound quality is most important. Good video sync would be nice. To give you an idea of what I like sound-wise: Sennheiser IE80 / Philips Fidelio X1. So having done some research I've a couple of different options (random order).
> 
> 1. Tronsmart Spunky Beat
> 2. MPOW T5/M5
> ...




I've heard lypertek tevi and melomania 1.

I'd pick lypertek tevi for the price performance and prefer its sound over melomania 1. 
If you have a chance do fit those 2 first before you buy them


----------



## tma6

sanity8me said:


> You're right, I seemed to have overlooked the new MW07+. Maybe there's hope for me after all...
> 
> To be honest, I always figured they weren't too comfortable because of their shape and design, but I'm reading that some people are actually using them for extended periods of time with no discomfort. How do they compare in this regard to the less bulkier APP?
> 
> ...




The MW07+ are definitely comfortable, though for some reason I had a bit of irritation with the wings, whereas I didn't have that with the original version. Not too big a deal though, def find the APP a bit more comfy. 

You can absolutely use the MW07+ for work calls, they really are excellent. I can't tell if better than APP, but both are great. No delay on MW07+ or APP. 

The ANC on the MW07+ is pretty mild, but works decently with subway noise and car noise. APP is much better though imo, as it blocks that noise out much better and does a much better job with wind noise (which the MW07+ struggle with) and people talking. I would say the Sony's still have the best ANC, but the APP is very effective and much more convenient. 

Ambient mode is great on the MW07+, but I'd say again the APP are slightly better at allowing you to hear what people are saying around you, while you have to turn the music a bit further down to hear what people are saying on the MW07s. 

That being said the MW07+ have much better battery life and sound significantly better. I do like the size of the APP case though. I can fit it in the small inner pocket of my jeans pocket which is dope. I'd say they're both great and I would've definitely kept the MW07s had they had better connectivity. I haven't seen too many other complaints about this here though so I could've just gotten unlucky with two defunct sets


----------



## tma6 (Nov 5, 2019)

soullinker20 said:


> I've heard lypertek tevi and melomania 1.
> 
> I'd pick lypertek tevi for the price performance and prefer its sound over melomania 1.
> If you have a chance do fit those 2 first before you buy them




I agree, Tevis with a bit of bass EQ are my fav sub $100 TWS.


----------



## soullinker20

howdy said:


> Anyone have solutions to getting the Sennheiser MTW to connect to the app? It connects to my phone right away but not the app, normally I would not care but I want to update it. There app sucks!



maybe try to pair it again or reset the mtw


----------



## sanity8me

tma6 said:


> The MW07+ are definitely comfortable, though for some reason I had a bit of irritation with the wings, whereas I didn't have that with the original version. Not too big a deal though, def find the APP a bit more comfy.
> 
> You can absolutely use the MW07+ for work calls, they really are excellent. I can't tell if better than APP, but both are great. No delay on MW07+ or APP.
> 
> ...



Definitely considering the mw07+ now...

Do you think the ANC would be sufficient for lawn mowing, or worse - leaf blowing?

It's definitely troubling however that you had such a bad experience with the connectivity. Maybe it was your phone since it's the constant in your equation? Is it an iPhone?


----------



## tma6

sanity8me said:


> Definitely considering the mw07+ now...
> 
> Do you think the ANC would be sufficient for lawn mowing, or worse - leaf blowing?
> 
> It's definitely troubling however that you had such a bad experience with the connectivity. Maybe it was your phone since it's the constant in your equation? Is it an iPhone?




It's an iPhone, but I don't have any issues with any other TWS I have, so seemed like it was the MW07+. I can't give you a definitive answer on the ANC, but my hunch is that it would actually do decently with lawn mowing or leaf blowing as those are more consistent sounds, though there's no way it will drown out the higher frequencies. It would say it does a serviceable job on mid to lower frequency continuous noises like subway noise, car noise, etc. Didn't do great with wind so that might be an issue.


----------



## srinivasvignesh

Very much similar feedback on MW07+ that I posted yesterday. I did not run into any connectivity issues at all.

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/goi...re-we-there-yet.861024/page-994#post-15289113

If you want really strong ANC, MW07+ is not the one.


----------



## tinyman392

I saw this on Reddit last night.  It's sourced from this French article.  Might be worth looking at.  In short, someone measured the ANC of the APP, LTA+, Sony TWS, and Sony full-sized.  In short, at the lower frequencies the APP are equal to or better than the Sony TWS while in the upper frequencies the Sony wins out (mainly due to the shallow seal and porting on the APP).  The Libratones are generally worse overall.  The full-sized are obviously better than anything else out there.  This might help explain why some people hear the APP besting the Sony while others hear the Sony besting and others hear them about equal.


----------



## sanity8me

srinivasvignesh said:


> Very much similar feedback on MW07+ that I posted yesterday. I did not run into any connectivity issues at all.
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/goi...re-we-there-yet.861024/page-994#post-15289113
> 
> If you want really strong ANC, MW07+ is not the one.



Awesome. Seems to align well with what tma6 is saying.

However, since comfort is a big deal to me, you're really making me question the size of my earlobes! My ears are kind of small-ish (I think?), but don't think my earlobes are that small. I have no reference point.

Hoping I can leave them in for 2-3 hours without feeling any discomfort...


----------



## d3myz

zazaboy said:


> oke I quoted this from a youtube user from a earlier video here... comparison between tevi mpow t5 and l2pro... .quote: This is shocking! I own both. The Tevi sounds great if you don’t care for much bass , but there is no comparison to the L2pro. The Tevi is grossly overpriced by about $45.  Buy the MPOW T5. It’s a Tevi w/o the graphene driver that can be Eq’d to sound nearly identical and it’s $40. The knowles BA in the L2Pro is so much crisper and cleaner than the Tevi. The L2pro has incredible textured bass, a huge 10 mm driver,  where the Tevi’s has a dynamic 6mm driver and the bass is balanced at best, more sub bass. I’ve tested over 50 TWS’ and The L2pro sounds similar to the Sony 1000-xm3 and is one of the best sounding tws’ on the market. It’s one weakness is the lack of a manual EQ and I’d like it to have more mid range. The microphone on the L2Pro isn’t great either. Soundcore is releasing a new version of the L2Pro on 2-3 weeks that fixes some of the initial hissing and microphone issues.  I’d strongly recommend not using the stock tips on either they are garbage. Get some spinfits 360’s or some JVC spiral dots. Trust me wide bore ear tips make a HUGE difference in the sound.


I’m flattered.


----------



## d3myz

Blueshound24 said:


> I sent a message to Soundcore asking when the new (less hiss) revamped version Liberty 2 Pro would be available and they said it is now ready. So hopefully the hiss is gone or at least lessened. I am seriously thinking about getting them as well.
> 
> I just heard back from them yesterday.


Mine are also on their way!


----------



## d3myz

FYLegend said:


> Already sold out??? Also doesn't seem like real ANC. ENC just refers to passive noise isolation while CVC is used for calls. Nice to see them finally use USB-Type C, but I have doubts whether it truly supports Type C to Type C cables. At this price point, it have been nice to have either Qi charging and/or AptX...
> 
> Any more news about a budget (<150$ USD) Ambient Sound + Type C + AptX TWS?



According to Tranya, the Rimor will be available on Amazon on the 15th.


----------



## webvan

tinyman392 said:


> I saw this on Reddit last night.  It's sourced from this French article.  Might be worth looking at.  In short, someone measured the ANC of the APP, LTA+, Sony TWS, and Sony full-sized.  In short, at the lower frequencies the APP are equal to or better than the Sony TWS while in the upper frequencies the Sony wins out (mainly due to the shallow seal and porting on the APP).  The Libratones are generally worse overall.  The full-sized are obviously better than anything else out there.  This might help explain why some people hear the APP besting the Sony while others hear the Sony besting and others hear them about equal.



Yep saw that too and it puts "numbers" on what I've experienced with the three. It would have been nice to have well sealing TWEs like the 65t or the Momentum on there for comparison purposes. The APPs do leave a a bit too many "whiny" sounds in the mix than I'd wish. I have the Echo Buds on order and I'm interested to see how they do in that area. I'm hoping their larger form factor (and wings if need be) will make them hold well in my ear (reviews have been very positive generally about this) and help give a good seal without the deep insertion required by the Sonys to even hold in place for rather a short period. In other words a compromise between the Sony's and the APPs.

@sanity8me - I haven't tried the MW07+ but I can't see them being very effective for lawn mowing with their "pretty mild" ANC since I didn't think the Sony WFxm3 or LTA+ were good enough for that when I used them for that activity/chore  These are still small devices with limited passive isolation that pales in comparison to the QC35/QC25/WHxm3, etc...for law mowing you can't beat actual ear muffs with low-profile TWs or deep insertion wired IEMs but that's less convenient.

@gibletzor - Thanks for the early feedback on the Echo Buds, so not sold on the stock Echo Buds tips either, they don't give a good seal, even with the wings ? I saw them in YT reviews and they look a bit like Sony tips with their colored rims. What tips did you end up using ?


----------



## hifi80sman

d3myz said:


> Mine are also on their way!


Let us know if the hiss is gone!  Feeling the itch again...


----------



## Blueshound24

Does anyone know if Master & Dynamic ever offers sales and/or Black Friday deals?


----------



## gibletzor (Nov 6, 2019)

Double posted...


----------



## gibletzor (Nov 6, 2019)

webvan said:


> @gibletzor - Thanks for the early feedback on the Echo Buds, so not sold on the stock Echo Buds tips either, they don't give a good seal, even with the wings ? I saw them in YT reviews and they look a bit like Sony tips with their colored rims. What tips did you end up using ?


I'm 99% sure the stock tips for the Echo Buds are exactly the same as the Galaxy Buds, and I hated those stock tips. So far my leading candidate for retaining sound quality and still being able to charge are my MS JVC Spiral Dots. I've tried my Tennmak Whirlwinds and Spinft CP-100Z also and both sounded great but either wouldn't sit right to charge or were very hard to get sitting in the right place. The MS Spiral Dots snap into place more reliably. I don't have all my tips with me as I'm at work so I'll let you know when I get a chance to try more!

Meh, the Spiral Dots are pretty finicky to get seated right to charge too...  This charging case may be the downfall of these buds.


----------



## FYLegend

d3myz said:


> According to Tranya, the Rimor will be available on Amazon on the 15th.


Likely it will only be on Amazon.com initially, would be nice to get some clarification... I'm not sure what's going on but Amazon.ca is pretty bad with TWS variety, and it's typically grey market/third-party sellers distributing them. I don't really mind the markup as long as there's some assurance and fulfillment from Amazon, but I recently noticed the "YouN" Sabbat E12 Ultra listing (the only one that had Amazon fulfillment) disappeared so maybe the seller got caught or something...


----------



## Coop

Chrisdu18e said:


> The Earin M2 could be an interesting choice. Really small, light and good SQ. For the sleep, I think it's a good option.



Looks interesting, but unfortunately no dealers in my country and the Earin site itself has them marked as sold out. So still a viable option, just not a short term solution. 



Does anyone have pictures of multiple TWS IEMs? Especially with the Galaxy buds and <something else> so I can do some size comparisons? It's hard to get an idea of the dimensions of many TWS IEMs. I'm very much interested how the TFZ X1(E) and Jade Audio EW1 are sized compared to the Galaxy buds.


----------



## Caipirina

Got my Rebrand (Whizzer) B6 today and upon opening the box, one big surprise: They packed a wireless charging pad IN the box with the buds. Not seller gift by-pack like I had with my Sabbath E12, but there was even a cut out in the cardboard to fit it in! Awesome. I checked i.e. @cleg 's video and while the box looks the same, no charging pad in there. Interesting also, this is now my first charging pad with a typeC usb port  

I was worried about this purchase from a seller called 'dola dola', it was already suspiciously cheap at 41$ and I managed to knock off another 6$ ... 

But box was originally sealed and everything works perfectly out of box. Sound so far (tried for an hour or so) is on the pleasant / impressive side. Have not checked AptX yet. Fit is pretty snug without much fiddling. What I really enjoy is that the touch buttons need at least a double tab. No accidental pausing when I adjust fit. Oh, also vol control on buds (touch MFB for 2 secs left or right)


----------



## LordToneeus

Blueshound24 said:


> Does anyone know if Master & Dynamic ever offers sales and/or Black Friday deals?



They did last year, though I can’t remember exactly how much. I just remember being surprised that the newly released MW07 were discounted. 

On a related note, since we’re so close to Black Friday I’ve forsworn any more TWS purchases until then. It’s only three weeks... I even returned my APPs unopened yesterday, because even if I could live with what is reported to be the sound quality I couldn’t stomach doing it for full price.


----------



## cleg

Caipirina said:


> I checked i.e. @cleg 's video and while the box looks the same, no charging pad in there



true that I didn't have a charging pad in the accessories set. when the competition is high, sellers try do deliver more value to attract customers
congratulations on your purchase, how do you like the sound?


----------



## Caipirina

cleg said:


> true that I didn't have a charging pad in the accessories set. when the competition is high, sellers try do deliver more value to attract customers
> congratulations on your purchase, how do you like the sound?



Funny thing about that is that it was nowhere advertised that it would include the charging pad   I would have put a big sticker on the box "Comes with charging pad"

Too early for detailed sound analysis, but I am really liking what I hear + I am getting a very good seal (which also means I get that thumping sound when walking / running, will try on a run tomorrow if it is too overbearing)


----------



## mattedialdoc

Caipirina said:


> Got my Rebrand (Whizzer) B6 today and upon opening the box, one big surprise: They packed a wireless charging pad IN the box with the buds. Not seller gift by-pack like I had with my Sabbath E12, but there was even a cut out in the cardboard to fit it in! Awesome. I checked i.e. @cleg 's video and while the box looks the same, no charging pad in there. Interesting also, this is now my first charging pad with a typeC usb port
> 
> I was worried about this purchase from a seller called 'dola dola', it was already suspiciously cheap at 41$ and I managed to knock off another 6$ ...
> 
> But box was originally sealed and everything works perfectly out of box. Sound so far (tried for an hour or so) is on the pleasant / impressive side. Have not checked AptX yet. Fit is pretty snug without much fiddling. What I really enjoy is that the touch buttons need at least a double tab. No accidental pausing when I adjust fit. Oh, also vol control on buds (touch MFB for 2 secs left or right)



Were these from Amazon? What’s the rebrand name? Thanks!!


----------



## BigZ12 (Nov 6, 2019)

Just got a pair of medium Spinfit CP360. Bought it a while ago (a month delivery from AliE) for my Tevis, and am pretty sure this is the best combo for sound quality. Clear, detailed with no sibilance. More bass compared to all tips I've tested. (at least 12-15 different ones)
The only drawback with the medium CP360s is that they are just a tiiiny bit too small for me, so I have to twist and jam the Tevis far inside the ear to get the optimal seal. I've experienced worse bt connection before because of this.
The upside is that they sit tight, and I think it's more comfortable to use the buttons.
And wow! They sound fantastic!!!

Otherwise, I'm waiting for my APP. They will arrive tomorrow afternoon. Looking forward to test them.


----------



## Caipirina (Nov 6, 2019)

mattedialdoc said:


> Were these from Amazon? What’s the rebrand name? Thanks!!



They were from Aliexpress and 'Noname' .. there is no name on the box nor on the charging case. The seller I got them from does not list them anymore (not even as 'sold out') Here's a screenshot, I've seen more like this when you search for 'B6 TWS'


Semi related, found this funny pic in a B6 review. I really think that apple’s AirPods have given some people wrong ideas on how to wear other tws


----------



## muyah

Now that the Sabbat E12 Ultra's are as cheap as the Mpow T5/M5's, which one has your preference?


----------



## actorlife (Nov 6, 2019)

Hi guys!

Good to see people are still raving about the Anbes 359/SSK. For those who want a similar SQ with Aptx and 8hr battery don't forget the Ofusho F16:
Bluetooth Earbuds Wireless Earbuds Bluetooth Earphones Wireless Headphones, OFUSHO Bluetooth 5.0 Deep Bass 152H Playtime IPX7 Waterproof TWS Stereo in-Ear Headphones with Charging Case, CVC8.0 Apt-X https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07VD3M6M3/ref=cm_sw_r_sms_apa_i_ErVWDbJFAQKDS


----------



## Tavleen Suri

howdy said:


> Anyone have solutions to getting the Sennheiser MTW to connect to the app? It connects to my phone right away but not the app, normally I would not care but I want to update it. There app sucks!


I had similar issues with my old jaybird runs....reinstalling the app and rebooting the phone solved the issue for me


----------



## Blueshound24

LordToneeus said:


> They did last year, though I can’t remember exactly how much. I just remember being surprised that the newly released MW07 were discounted.
> 
> On a related note, since we’re so close to Black Friday I’ve forsworn any more TWS purchases until then. It’s only three weeks... I even returned my APPs unopened yesterday, because even if I could live with what is reported to be the sound quality I couldn’t stomach doing it for full price.




Instead of just collecting a bunch of lower priced tws I'm thinking of just biting the bullet and getting the mw07. Hopefully they will offer a Black Friday special price.


----------



## go0gle

Is there a way to EQ the airpod pros on a system level ? Like from iOS instead of doing it from each specific application ? 

For example I don't think Soundcloud has a built in EQ presets inside the app.. would the pros go to a flat EQ in that case?



Blueshound24 said:


> I sent a message to Soundcore asking when the new (less hiss) revamped version Liberty 2 Pro would be available and they said it is now ready. So hopefully the hiss is gone or at least lessened. I am seriously thinking about getting them as well.
> 
> I just heard back from them yesterday.



I think I will wait a few more weeks and see if I can exchange mine for the newer version. Doesn't bother me at all, but why not..


----------



## hifi80sman

Caipirina said:


> They were from Aliexpress and 'Noname' .. there is no name on the box nor on the charging case. The seller I got them from does not list them anymore (not even as 'sold out') Here's a screenshot, I've seen more like this when you search for 'B6 TWS'
> 
> 
> Semi related, found this funny pic in a B6 review. I really think that apple’s AirPods have given some people wrong ideas on how to wear other tws


Funny thing, I see people wear all kinds of TWS' backwards in reviews ALL THE TIME.  No words, my friend, no words.


----------



## hifi80sman

@d3myz did you get your replacement pair?  Does it have the hissing (sounds like they admitted the gain was set too high).


----------



## avdim

go0gle said:


> Is there a way to EQ the airpod pros on a system level ? Like from iOS instead of doing it from each specific application ?


Jailbreak only. https://twitter.com/eqeverywhere


----------



## d3myz (Nov 6, 2019)

hifi80sman said:


> @d3myz did you get your replacement pair?  Does it have the hissing (sounds like they admitted the gain was set too high).


They should be here tomorrow. Not sure I mentioned this before, but after the firmware update I noticed hissing every now and then, where as I never did before.

Edit: Also, Siri sounds much worse now after the update.


----------



## Bluestrike2

I've been enjoying a pair of Sabbat E12 Ultras for a few weeks now, but the one thing that's kind of annoyed me about both them is the shallow insertion depth. The housing just kind of gets in the way; it's deep enough to be decently secure, but just a few millimeters less than I'd prefer. There's a night and day difference between them and my KZ ZS10 Pros with the BT20s, for example. Those have their own little nuisances, of course. That in mind, can anyone recommend a pair of TWS with greater insertion depth along with aptX support?


----------



## Grayson73

rulerofrecords said:


> Have not been here in a while. Could these SSK be an upgrade to my MpowT5? If not, with 11.11 in mind what would be for under 100 USD/Euros? cheers



I much prefer the SSK to the Mpow T5.  I found the SSK to have a wider soundstage and more exciting for pop music.


----------



## CocaCola15

soullinker20 said:


> I've heard lypertek tevi and melomania 1.
> 
> I'd pick lypertek tevi for the price performance and prefer its sound over melomania 1.
> If you have a chance do fit those 2 first before you buy them


I owned the Tevi but kept the Melomania 1. To me, the latter with the OEM foam tips sounds great. They are not perfect comfort-wise, very thick sound tube, but for my purposes (60 minute max use) they are great. I also really like the Anker Soundcore Liberty 2 Pro. Mine never hissed and they fixed that I hear.


----------



## Grayson73

Rutteger said:


> Guess a few on this thread will have anbes 359 / 359 clone. After updating my iphone 7 to ios 13.2 the headphone bluetooth drops after a few seconds - no issue with any other bt headphones tried. Anyone else having this issue - tried the normal power on / off , remove and add etc etc ??
> 
> Back to the drawing board for a new set of tws...



Which Anbes 359 clone do you have?


----------



## Grayson73 (Nov 6, 2019)

Daniel Gur said:


> Hello, I am looking for a nice pair of true wireless earphones. My budget is around 50$ but I ofc would prefer to spend as less as possible. After looking I found Blitzwolf BW-FYE7 which seems very nice for their price. Anyone has other recommendations?



If you only want to buy one, get the SSK.  If you want to buy 2 to compare, get the MPOW T5 also.  Those seem to be the two most mentioned under $50.

If you're in the U.S., you can get both from Amazon.
SSK - https://www.amazon.com/SSK-Bluetooth-Headphones-Sweatproof-Microphone/dp/B07R8TPND5

Mpow T5 - https://www.amazon.com/Wireless-Mpow-Bluetooth-Featured-Cancelling/dp/B07SR1FTD4

@rulerofrecords You can get the SSK from Aliexpress:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33005202947.html


----------



## webvan (Nov 6, 2019)

I for one prefer the T5/M5, better fit (the Anbes 359 were too small and lost the seal too easily) and the soundstage of the Anbes 359 was too wide for my brain/ears !

The M5/T5 might have some QC issues though, the Amazon seller sent me another pair after the first one had this high noise floor in the right ear...the second pair has a high noise floor in the left ear, not as bad though ! I wonder if it's not a "master"/"slave" issue though depending on which one you connect first. Haven't really had time to look into that possibility.

On another subject I'm still pretty happy with the APPs although as others have pointed out there's something slightly "off" in their SQ, it's hard to pinpoint, maybe just a lack of "precision", they sound a bit "messy" like the X12. Something that's annoying with my Android phone is that they do NOT reconnect automatically in "music playing mode" when you end a call. They're still connected but no music can be played. The only fix I've found is to turn BT on/off and then it works again. Anyone else notice that ?


----------



## FYLegend (Nov 6, 2019)

Caipirina said:


> Got my Rebrand (Whizzer) B6 today and upon opening the box, one big surprise: They packed a wireless charging pad IN the box with the buds. Not seller gift by-pack like I had with my Sabbath E12, but there was even a cut out in the cardboard to fit it in! Awesome. I checked i.e. @cleg 's video and while the box looks the same, no charging pad in there. Interesting also, this is now my first charging pad with a typeC usb port
> 
> I was worried about this purchase from a seller called 'dola dola', it was already suspiciously cheap at 41$ and I managed to knock off another 6$ ...
> 
> But box was originally sealed and everything works perfectly out of box. Sound so far (tried for an hour or so) is on the pleasant / impressive side. Have not checked AptX yet. Fit is pretty snug without much fiddling. What I really enjoy is that the touch buttons need at least a double tab. No accidental pausing when I adjust fit. Oh, also vol control on buds (touch MFB for 2 secs left or right)


So they're more warm/bass heavy? Do they support AAC? I still wonder whether Whizzer's is tuned differently since they've been putting out more IEMs than the generic brands.

Unfortunately it seems Dola Dola no longer lists them. Instead they have a B5 which is cheaper with a different case (no telling if it has Type C or AptX though):
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/400...pm=a2g1y.12024536.smartJustForYou_309869694.0

This one has AptX, Type C and an integrated charging cable. It resembles the Anbes 359/BE30 to some extent. It uses the CSR64110 5.0, not QCC3020 and does not list AAC. Also claims to have 24-bit decoding which raises eyebrows.
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000280976833.html?spm=a2g0s.8937460.0.0.73f62e0eMzLjhB

According to Cheerstar, CSR64110 does not support AptX but it appears to be an older BT4.2 version: http://www.cheerstar.net/proshow-35-3-15-15-509-3.html

This one has AptX with QCC3020 and a Type C case. Form factor seems similar to MPOW T5, Lypertek Tevi and Jabees Firefly Pro, but charging pins are different.
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000308810030.html?spm=a2g0s.8937460.0.0.73f62e0eMzLjhB


----------



## paddyberger

Blueshound24 said:


> I see you are in the UK but the link is for Amazon USA, so hopefully yours will be the new version.



UPS damaged them in transit and they are out of stock currently. They refunded and the wait continues.


----------



## Grayson73

webvan said:


> I for one prefer the T5/M5, better fit (the Anbes 359 were too small and lost the seal too easily) and the soundstage of the Anbes 359 was too wide for my brain/ears!



Was that with the stock L tips?  I couldn't seal with S nor M stock tips.  I'm using spiral dots that fit and don't have problems with losing seal.  Haha, the wide soundstage is one of the reasons I love them!


----------



## go0gle

Regarding the white noise on LP2 I was reading trough the amazon reviews and saw this

_"Yes apparently the gain is set too high on the headphones resulting in a constant hiss. Per their customer service their solution is going to be lower the gain, which will lower the maximum volume. To be determined I guess 
By druznak on October 25, 2019"
_
If that's the problem, not sure why it can't be addressed in a firmware update. 



avdim said:


> Jailbreak only. https://twitter.com/eqeverywhere



Thank you! I guess that's a no for me then  :\


----------



## BigZ12

1000 pages...


----------



## webvan

Grayson73 said:


> Was that with the stock L tips?  I couldn't seal with S nor M stock tips.  I'm using spiral dots that fit and don't have problems with losing seal.  Haha, the wide soundstage is one of the reasons I love them!



I tried all the tips I had Comply, SpinFit, Final E, Sony Hybrids, etc...the SpinFit 100 weren't too bad for the seal but they made them stick out and the charging didn't always work. Other tips allowed me to push them in deeper but it gets uncomfortable pretty quickly and it often generated that "suction" effect. I don't really understand the need to make the smallest TWS possible, I find it often means a less stable fit as I can't tuck them properly. The T5 are an improvement in that respect, for my ears at least.


----------



## hifi80sman

go0gle said:


> Regarding the white noise on LP2 I was reading trough the amazon reviews and saw this
> 
> _"Yes apparently the gain is set too high on the headphones resulting in a constant hiss. Per their customer service their solution is going to be lower the gain, which will lower the maximum volume. To be determined I guess
> By druznak on October 25, 2019"
> ...


My guess is there may be some hardware variation on the new version.


----------



## sanity8me

Blueshound24 said:


> Instead of just collecting a bunch of lower priced tws I'm thinking of just biting the bullet and getting the mw07. Hopefully they will offer a Black Friday special price.



Same here.

I'm hoping they'll be discounted at bestbuy on Black Friday cause I have a gift card.


----------



## actorlife

Anyone hear these?
SOUNDPEATS Dual Dynamic Drivers Wireless Earbuds, Bluetooth 5.0 Headphones with Dual Crossovers, APTX Audio CVC Noise Cancellation Built in Mic, in-Ear Earphones with Charging Case, 27 Hours Playtime https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07YRLK978/ref=cm_sw_r_sms_apa_i_yZ1WDbGC0WKG8


----------



## JayF

BigZ12 said:


> 1000 pages...



I just started reading this thread last week when researching the MW07plus. There's a lot of great info in here but easy to get lost. Curious why there isn't a forum totally dedicated to wireless especially since it's only going to keep growing?


----------



## Putshoesonthatmonster (Nov 6, 2019)

I thought I would share an update from using the bomaker sifi for a few weeks with my pixel 4.

The highs are little bit of a problem out the box, it's really noticeable at really low volumes, however as you increase it does dissapear somewhat. To combat this I upgraded the tips to foam ones as suggested, I went for the misodiko TWS-Pro however from Rhinenet on Amazon UK as slightly cheaper and the same product.

The tips can go deep enough for a good seal and I have no problems with them falling out etc. They are low profile small buds, however the buttons are fiddly due to this. They also fit in the case which is a bonus (small size, however there looks to be more room).

You need to play with an equilaser to get a decent sound, I've found I still up the bass and mids depending on the track/album. I usually just set a EQ on Power amp that I am happy with for that album. I do enjoy tinkering though. The sound stage is wide which I prefer.

Lag on you tube /iPlayer is there however videos are watchable and i do think I notice it more than most. With a lack of eq, high voices can be a little much at times, which is worth considering.

My wife loves the mpow T5 and out the box they are better, however I prefer the wider soundstage on the sifi and I find with adjustments for music its a better package.

Pros
Small low profile buds with a simple design
Really small case which fits perfectly in a jeans pocket
Good sound stage
Volume control on the bud
Battery life is good

Cons
Highs are too pronaunced and need adjusting
Physical buttons are fiddly
They do have a tiny blinking led in use


----------



## chinmie

actorlife said:


> Anyone hear these?
> SOUNDPEATS Dual Dynamic Drivers Wireless Earbuds, Bluetooth 5.0 Headphones with Dual Crossovers, APTX Audio CVC Noise Cancellation Built in Mic, in-Ear Earphones with Charging Case, 27 Hours Playtime https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07YRLK978/ref=cm_sw_r_sms_apa_i_yZ1WDbGC0WKG8



@hifi80sman  already have one and said it was bad
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/goi...re-we-there-yet.861024/page-928#post-15261283

Too bad.. because the form factor is really nice

Also did anyone has this? This is the only airpod form factor that i know of that has aptx

 

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000308483315/4000308483315.html


----------



## actorlife (Nov 6, 2019)

chinmie said:


> @hifi80sman  already have one and said it was bad
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/goi...re-we-there-yet.861024/page-928#post-15261283
> 
> Too bad.. because the form factor is really nice


OH darn. It just got a great review from gamesky today. Maybe HIFI got a bad batch? I wonder if he tried the Ofusho F16?


----------



## Caipirina

Here's to 1000 pages, which incidentally is the number of TWE that @Bartig is hoarding


----------



## chinmie

actorlife said:


> OH darn. It just got a great review from gamesky today. Maybe HIFI got a bad batch? I wonder if he tried the Ofusho F16?



Might be..but with all due respect to gamesky (if he happens to be a member here), his opinion on sound doesn't match my taste personally (like the sabbat e12, for instance). I prefer to read the collective opinions of members here. 
Youtube reviewers that seems to match my preference, for one is the Super Review guy


----------



## LordToneeus

actorlife said:


> OH darn. It just got a great review from gamesky today. Maybe HIFI got a bad batch? I wonder if he tried the Ofusho F16?



I saw the gamesky review and recalled that @hifi80sman had rather strong feelings in the other direction. How do we reconcile those rather opposite opinions? Bad batch?


----------



## go0gle

hifi80sman said:


> My guess is there may be some hardware variation on the new version.



Impressive if they managed to alter production in just a few weeks time after hearing the complaints, unless they knew about it and it was planned that way all along. But maybe they did.. either way Anker are a solid company which is the main reason I felt comfortable pre-ordering at $100. 

Now that i've been reading this thread, there are so many good/cheap options out there! 

But I agree that its easy to get lost here, there should be a subforum for all this and each headphone should have a dedicated thread.


----------



## hifi80sman

actorlife said:


> OH darn. It just got a great review from gamesky today. Maybe HIFI got a bad batch? I wonder if he tried the Ofusho F16?


I can't even remotely comprehend where he's coming from AND say they are the best under $50.  L-O-EFFIN-L.

I think @d3myz also tried these.

They're pretty bad.  Like, bad.  They sound like you're in a cave.  Funny, because based on his review and explanation of the sound, he's actually almost describing the cave-like sound but is interpreting it as "soundstage", etc.  They basically sound like someone applied bad artificial "concert hall" DSP.


----------



## actorlife

chinmie said:


> Might be..but with all due respect to gamesky (if he happens to be a member here), his opinion on sound doesn't match my taste personally (like the sabbat e12, for instance). I prefer to read the collective opinions of members here.
> Youtube reviewers that seems to match my preference, for one is the Super Review guy


I agree with you. I've never bought anything he had suggested. Pure fun to watch some of these guys though. I share my opinion with everyone here on any TWS I have owned. May not be everybodies cup of tea, but with Amazon easy to return thank goodness.


----------



## chinmie

hifi80sman said:


> I can't even remotely comprehend where he's coming from AND say they are the best under $50.  L-O-EFFIN-L.
> 
> I think @d3myz also tried these.
> 
> They're pretty bad.  Like, bad.  They sound like you're in a cave.  Funny, because based on his review and explanation of the sound, he's actually almost describing the cave-like sound but is interpreting it as "soundstage", etc.  They basically sound like someone applied bad artificial "concert hall" DSP.



He also like the sound of the E12 so much, which to me sounds boomy and rolled off in the highs. The only good thing about the E12 is the functionality and the soundstage. Come to think of it, that one also has that kind of a hollow mids that creates the seemingly large stage. Maybe that is his preferred sound


----------



## actorlife

hifi80sman said:


> I can't even remotely comprehend where he's coming from AND say they are the best under $50.  L-O-EFFIN-L.
> 
> I think @d3myz also tried these.
> 
> They're pretty bad.  Like, bad.  They sound like you're in a cave.  Funny, because based on his review and explanation of the sound, he's actually almost describing the cave-like sound but is interpreting it as "soundstage", etc.  They basically sound like someone applied bad artificial "concert hall" DSP.


Yep like those Koseton I had to return to Amazon. I thought maybe they'd be good since soundpeats stuff gets slot of praised here. I didn't get the earlier version because they had no volume control. On to the next TWS.


----------



## actorlife

chinmie said:


> He also like the sound of the E12 so much, which to me sounds boomy and rolled off in the highs. The only good thing about the E12 is the functionality and the soundstage. Come to think of it, that one also has that kind of a hollow mids that creates the seemingly large stage. Maybe that is his preferred sound


I'll never buy anything Sabbat after those awful treble less and boomy bass on those E12.


----------



## srinivasvignesh

actorlife said:


> I'll never buy anything Sabbat after those awful treble less and boomy bass on those E12.


While I understand, I suggest that you might be surprised with the X12 Pro with its open style, incredible comfort, great call quality. Definitely not meant for audiophiles, but for physical activities (no thumping), nice call quality, on the go use case, it is something I fall back to (especially if I am going to just listen to podcasts, audiobooks)


----------



## ld100

I been trying to research wireless earbuds for the last few days and after reading online reviews, watching youtube and looking in here I am even more confused. It seems that most reviews base their reviews on features and sound is not that important. I am more interested in sound quality for music. What would be the best options for music? Under a 100 and at any price level? Thank you guys.


----------



## chinmie

actorlife said:


> I'll never buy anything Sabbat after those awful treble less and boomy bass on those E12.





srinivasvignesh said:


> While I understand, I suggest that you might be surprised with the X12 Pro with its open style, incredible comfort, great call quality. Definitely not meant for audiophiles, but for physical activities (no thumping), nice call quality, on the go use case, it is something I fall back to (especially if I am going to just listen to podcasts, audiobooks)



I agree. The X12 remains one of my favorite, especially for home multimedia use (watching youtubes and TV with bluetooth)


----------



## srinivasvignesh

ld100 said:


> I been trying to research wireless earbuds for the last few days and after reading online reviews, watching youtube and looking in here I am even more confused. It seems that most reviews base their reviews on features and sound is not that important. I am more interested in sound quality for music. What would be the best options for music? Under a 100 and at any price level? Thank you guys.



The most important reason why people choose TWS earbuds is for convenience and ease of use. This does not replace, yet, the need for wired earphones when it comes to pure sonic abilities. The technology just is not there, with bluetooth and its inherent limitations. I see TWS as something that complements my use cases rather than displacing my existing equipment. Having said that, MPoW T5, SSK (fantastic for $20), and my MW07+ are serving me very well indeed.


----------



## go0gle

any pair out there running on 

https://www.qualcomm.com/products/qcc5100-series

?


----------



## XGUGU (Nov 6, 2019)

LordToneeus said:


> I saw the gamesky review and recalled that @hifi80sman had rather strong feelings in the other direction. How do we reconcile those rather opposite opinions? Bad batch?


Brian Unboxed also reviewed them and gave good feedback on SQ
Considering @hifi80sman found mismatch from left to right side might hint a bad item


----------



## chinmie

XGUGU said:


> Brian Unboxed also reviewed them and gave good feedback on SQ
> Considering @hifi80sman found mismatch from left to right side might hint a bad item



he also compared the E12 with Galaxy Buds and Airpods, and said the E12 sounds the best. sooo... i'd say his preference is more like gamesky and don't match mine at all.


----------



## FYLegend

chinmie said:


> He also like the sound of the E12 so much, which to me sounds boomy and rolled off in the highs. The only good thing about the E12 is the functionality and the soundstage. Come to think of it, that one also has that kind of a hollow mids that creates the seemingly large stage. Maybe that is his preferred sound


Well that was the total opposite of what I thought of the original E12 which was quite airy and V-shaped, I agree about the hollow mids though. Then again I suspect there are bad runs and/or rejects circulating as both my E12 and E12 Ultra from different Aliexpress sellers have bad driver matching with stronger treble on the left. As far as I can tell the E12 Ultra doesn't have that hollow section in the mids and should be rather forward, but since my dud has this section imbalanced I am unable to confirm.After I tried balancing my mismatched pair with foam on the peaked side, the highs are rolled off but levelled out with the mids. I enjoy their sound at the current state but since I had to mod my unit I don't know how they compare to a "good" unit.

Not bashing Brian as I enjoy watching his video, but I do recall someone accused him of sounding like a paid review on his Letscom BE32 video. The next time I saw that video the comment was gone so he probably deleted it. That commenter seemed downright condescending without offering any proof, but it would have been better if he had addressed it outright.

TotallyDubbed trashed the Galaxy Buds and got so much flak for it calling him a fake reviewer, but honest reviews like his were why I hesitated on purchasing them, followed by finding out how inflated they were in Canada.


----------



## MLTwee

go0gle said:


> any pair out there running on
> 
> https://www.qualcomm.com/products/qcc5100-series
> 
> ?


Yes. The libratone track air+, vivo tws, backbeat pro 5100.


----------



## bronco1015

actorlife said:


> Hi guys!
> 
> Good to see people are still raving about the Anbes 359/SSK. For those who want a similar SQ with Aptx and 8hr battery don't forget the Ofusho F16:
> Bluetooth Earbuds Wireless Earbuds Bluetooth Earphones Wireless Headphones, OFUSHO Bluetooth 5.0 Deep Bass 152H Playtime IPX7 Waterproof TWS Stereo in-Ear Headphones with Charging Case, CVC8.0 Apt-X https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07VD3M6M3/ref=cm_sw_r_sms_apa_i_ErVWDbJFAQKDS


 Been a while since you came back, but welcome back! Those F16s imo aren't anything to write home about. i got 2 pair around the same time we all ordered them labor day or close to it i think, and i'd say the anbes are leaps and bounds ahead of the F16s. not even in the same conversation imo. hOpe those last me a long time. Glad you ppushed them so hard on here.


----------



## AudioNoob

This is a bit insane, what is the general recommendations under $50 now? (Aliexpress is fine but rather have more established brands)


----------



## bronco1015

Caipirina said:


> Here's to 1000 pages, which incidentally is the number of TWE that @Bartig is hoarding


I thought it was you that had 1,000. lol.


----------



## voicemaster

AudioNoob said:


> This is a bit insane, what is the general recommendations under $50 now? (Aliexpress is fine but rather have more established brands)



Mpow t5/m5? It is my best sounding tws I have so far.


----------



## AudioNoob

voicemaster said:


> Mpow t5/m5? It is my best sounding tws I have so far.


usb-c and bt5 would have been nice.


----------



## Rutteger

Grayson73 said:


> Which Anbes 359 clone do you have?



Not sure if clones or simply unbranded. Purchased from aliexpress, listing suggested they were Anbes. On arrival no branding at all on product or packaging. 
Have you noted similar in iOS13.2?


----------



## karloil

BigZ12 said:


> Just got a pair of medium Spinfit CP360. Bought it a while ago (a month delivery from AliE) for my Tevis, and am pretty sure this is the best combo for sound quality. Clear, detailed with no sibilance. More bass compared to all tips I've tested. (at least 12-15 different ones)
> The only drawback with the medium CP360s is that they are just a tiiiny bit too small for me, so I have to twist and jam the Tevis far inside the ear to get the optimal seal. I've experienced worse bt connection before because of this.
> The upside is that they sit tight, and I think it's more comfortable to use the buttons.
> And wow! They sound fantastic!!!
> ...



hey hey!


----------



## muyah

AudioNoob said:


> This is a bit insane, what is the general recommendations under $50 now? (Aliexpress is fine but rather have more established brands)



I’d be interested in hearing what the current consensus is as well. From what I’ve gathered it’s between the Mpow M5, SSK BT03 (and BT08?) and Sabbat E12 Ultra. I’m planning on buying a TWS on the 11/11 sale for about 50 as well (SQ is 1st prio), can any experienced members provide their recommendations?


----------



## webvan

If the SpinFit CP360 medium/green are too small, get the large/blue  I quite like them too but don't find them very isolating and find they give a slight "shrillness" to the sound, it's hard to describe  The CP100 don't do that at all, I think it could be due to the different texture of the rubber, shiny vs matte.



AudioNoob said:


> usb-c and bt5 would have been nice.


The box says 5.0 but of course there is no way of checking that 

On another matter I've seen people mentioning data rates for the Bluetooth connection, is that only visible on a mac or can that be seen on a PC or even better Android ?


----------



## Daniel Gur

Grayson73 said:


> If you only want to buy one, get the SSK.  If you want to buy 2 to compare, get the MPOW T5 also.  Those seem to be the two most mentioned under $50.
> 
> If you're in the U.S., you can get both from Amazon.
> SSK - https://www.amazon.com/SSK-Bluetooth-Headphones-Sweatproof-Microphone/dp/B07R8TPND5
> ...


Do you own yourself a pair of the SSK's? If you do could you please check if youre able to use them with only 1 earphone out of the charging case. I mostly going to use only 1 earphine at a time.


----------



## gdv brisbane

srinivasvignesh said:


> The most important reason why people choose TWS earbuds is for convenience and ease of use. This does not replace, yet, the need for wired earphones when it comes to pure sonic abilities. The technology just is not there, with bluetooth and its inherent limitations. I see TWS as something that complements my use cases rather than displacing my existing equipment. Having said that, MPoW T5, SSK (fantastic for $20), and my MW07+ are serving me very well indeed.



I'm coming to TWS having been a long time Etymotic user (ER6i to ER4P to HF3). Is it too much to expect any current TWS to equal the transparent resolution and sparkly highs that I get from an Ety BA driver? I tried the APP yesterday but they were "muddy" compared to my Etys, where I feel like I can hear every string on an acoustic guitar ringing out. It would be good to know if I'm expecting too much from TWS at this stage.


----------



## chinmie

gdv brisbane said:


> I'm coming to TWS having been a long time Etymotic user (ER6i to ER4P to HF3). Is it too much to expect any current TWS to equal the transparent resolution and sparkly highs that I get from an Ety BA driver? I tried the APP yesterday but they were "muddy" compared to my Etys, where I feel like I can hear every string on an acoustic guitar ringing out. It would be good to know if I'm expecting too much from TWS at this stage.



even other wired IEMs will have a hard time matching the Ety signature sound, and that kind of sound would only works in noisy environments with that Ety deep insertion.

you might want to try the shanling mt100 that also uses knowles BA driver. i haven't heard it yet, but even that i can bet won't have the harman curve of the Etys. 

in my collection, there's the Nillkin Go (similar freq response to ER4XR, but with more bass and less resolution) and the Galaxy Buds (Harman curve-ish, similar mid-treble response to Ety, and also can be tuned via EQ app)


----------



## webvan (Nov 7, 2019)

chinmie said:


> it definitely blocks more than the X12. it's a happy medium between open isolation earbuds/airpods style and full isolation IEM types.


Might give the Nillkin Go a try then. Especially if they don't produce any thumping when running. The X12 are great but when you run in a noisy environment it can get hard to enjoy the music.

So Nilikin seem to have two TWEs, this one being the other one (not called Go) https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32969869641.html - has anyone tried it ? I wonder if they are "vented IEMs" like the Go. They have a bigger case for sure !


----------



## gdv brisbane

chinmie said:


> even other wired IEMs will have a hard time matching the Ety signature sound, and that kind of sound would only works in noisy environments with that Ety deep insertion.
> 
> you might want to try the shanling mt100 that also uses knowles BA driver. i haven't heard it yet, but even that i can bet won't have the harman curve of the Etys.


Thanks for the advice. I'm hoping that the Amazon Echo Buds may offer something similar to the Etys as they have dual Knowles BAs and seem to be deep insertion. They also fit the Comply foam tips and so are closer to my current Ety+Shure Black Olives set up (old school, I know...).


----------



## chinmie

gdv brisbane said:


> Thanks for the advice. I'm hoping that the Amazon Echo Buds may offer something similar to the Etys as they have dual Knowles BAs and seem to be deep insertion. They also fit the Comply foam tips and so are closer to my current Ety+Shure Black Olives set up (old school, I know...).



just be cautious that Knowles driver types are plenty, and sadly not many products would state what type they are using. for instance, i have the Earin M2 which is a single Knowles driver, but the sound is anything but the Etys. it sounds so much warmer in comparison. the Galaxy buds which has micro dynamic driver can be set (via app) much more similar to the Etys, because it has similar lean mids and similar peaks in the mid-highs


----------



## clerkpalmer

Off topic but interesting read: 

https://www.theverge.com/2019/11/7/20943377/chinese-hi-fi-audio-chifi-fiio-hifiman-tin-audio

Separately, anyone with new mw07 or mw07 go on ios discern and noticeable drop off in sq from the original version? I'm debating switching to ios.


----------



## actorlife

bronco1015 said:


> Been a while since you came back, but welcome back! Those F16s imo aren't anything to write home about. i got 2 pair around the same time we all ordered them labor day or close to it i think, and i'd say the anbes are leaps and bounds ahead of the F16s. not even in the same conversation imo. hOpe those last me a long time. Glad you ppushed them so hard on here.


Thanks for the welcome Bronco.  I guess because most of my devices have APTX the Ofusho shined real well. I don't know maybe I just got a good copy. I had no issues what so ever. I have not used them in a good while time to start rotating.  For sure the Anbes is still one that will always bring me joy and it was the first TWS I got and raved about when I joined this thread early this year.


----------



## Grayson73

JLab Audio - JBuds Air $30 at Best Buy.

https://slickdeals.net/f/13524184-j...phones-black-ebjbudsairrblk82-best-buy-30?v=1


----------



## atmosfearz

I've read almost 100 pages, everything is messed up. So, am I right that the most balanced sound in ~100$ price range goes to MTW100 and Lypertek Tevi? Which one would you choose?


----------



## Grayson73

Rutteger said:


> Not sure if clones or simply unbranded. Purchased from aliexpress, listing suggested they were Anbes. On arrival no branding at all on product or packaging.
> Have you noted similar in iOS13.2?



I don't have Apple, but if you're in the U.S., you may want to try the SSK.


----------



## Grayson73

AudioNoob said:


> This is a bit insane, what is the general recommendations under $50 now? (Aliexpress is fine but rather have more established brands)



@AudioNoob  and @muyah 

SSK BT-03 (Amazon and Aliexpress) and Mpow T5 (Amazon) seem to be the two most recommended under $50.  I much prefer the SSK.


----------



## Minarets

I put in my sons SSK last night and it doesn’t have the right tips on it for me. It had the small ones from out of the box but man, sounded like a $5 pair of headphones.  Super tinny and no bass.  I assume and hope with the correct tips that would change? 
He is 13 so he had small tips on there.


----------



## d3myz

hifi80sman said:


> I can't even remotely comprehend where he's coming from AND say they are the best under $50.  L-O-EFFIN-L.
> 
> I think @d3myz also tried these.
> 
> They're pretty bad.  Like, bad.  They sound like you're in a cave.  Funny, because based on his review and explanation of the sound, he's actually almost describing the cave-like sound but is interpreting it as "soundstage", etc.  They basically sound like someone applied bad artificial "concert hall" DSP.


Yep, these are horrible. Some of the worst I've heard. there's like a giant 1k spike or something.  
If read the comments, i'm d3myz. Probably not my best moment, but I called him out. I'm tired of this guys Bull$hit. The guy is a tool. He told me he gets his stuff for free and he doesn't keep any of his TWS' even the ones he likes. WHAT? and then I asked him how he is able to review and recommend products when he's not doing side by side comparisons. Apparently by memory. Anyway, the dude is a hack that's paid by the Chinese to push products. He even thinks that amazon reviews on products are real. .


----------



## d3myz

Minarets said:


> I put in my sons SSK last night and it doesn’t have the right tips on it for me. It had the small ones from out of the box but man, sounded like a $5 pair of headphones.  Super tinny and no bass.  I assume and hope with the correct tips that would change?
> He is 13 so he had small tips on there.


Get the right tips and prepare to be amazed.


----------



## Grayson73

Minarets said:


> I put in my sons SSK last night and it doesn’t have the right tips on it for me. It had the small ones from out of the box but man, sounded like a $5 pair of headphones.  Super tinny and no bass.  I assume and hope with the correct tips that would change?
> He is 13 so he had small tips on there.



Sounds like you're not sealing.  I couldn't seal with S or M stock tips, so try the L or tips from other earphones


----------



## Timastyle

I have the SSK and the bass is there, but a little on the lighter side.  I feel like I get a good seal with the stock L tips, but it's not heavy thumping or anything like that if that's what you're looking for.

I'm also looking for some recommendations on earbuds that don't have to be inserted so deeply into the ear canal.  I feel as though both the SSK and Melomania I have are this way and I get a very "head under water" feel with them.  Since I've never tried shallower buds, I'm not sure if this is the case with those too.  Would love some opinions.  Likewise, if I would need to get buds with transparency/ambient aware mode to get rid of that feeling, I'd love to hear which ones are the best for that.  Thanks!


----------



## AudioNoob (Nov 7, 2019)

Well if anybody wants to trade some of their archive, I have the following for trade. Would be interested in jlab icon if you want to get rid of that, or something in the stem format. Looking for an all-rounder, bt5, usb-c and single use possibility would be nice.
 Etymotic HF5 / TRI I4 / Audiosense T180 Pro / Final E2000C / Dragonfly Black


----------



## hifi80sman

XGUGU said:


> Brian Unboxed also reviewed them and gave good feedback on SQ
> Considering @hifi80sman found mismatch from left to right side might hint a bad item


While possible, amplitude imbalance is fairly common among budget Chi-Fi, but typically does not affect the overall signature.  I'd be interested to hear others opinions on it, but for me, they were quite bad.  I actually have these wired SoundPeats, which sound pretty good, although I also had an imbalance on my first pair of those as well.  I also had these dual DD SoundPeats, but they were not that great.


Minarets said:


> I put in my sons SSK last night and it doesn’t have the right tips on it for me. It had the small ones from out of the box but man, sounded like a $5 pair of headphones.  Super tinny and no bass.  I assume and hope with the correct tips that would change?
> He is 13 so he had small tips on there.


The right tips are like cheese on pizza.


----------



## actorlife

Minarets said:


> I put in my sons SSK last night and it doesn’t have the right tips on it for me. It had the small ones from out of the box but man, sounded like a $5 pair of headphones.  Super tinny and no bass.  I assume and hope with the correct tips that would change?
> He is 13 so he had small tips on there.


I had the same problem with the seal and put on the medium and pure bliss with SSK.


----------



## go0gle

MLTwee said:


> Yes. The libratone track air+, vivo tws, backbeat pro 5100.



Thank you! 




srinivasvignesh said:


> This does not replace, yet, the need for wired earphones when it comes to pure sonic abilities. The technology just is not there, with bluetooth and its inherent limitations. I see TWS as something that complements my use cases rather than displacing my existing equipment. Having said that, MPoW T5, SSK (fantastic for $20), and my MW07+ are serving me very well indeed.



I would say its personal preference at this point.  I am perfectly fine with the lp2 for say.. 80% of the time. Yes, I would put on my monitors if I have the time and desire to listen to something specific, but that's going to be once a week maybe. 

Current tech is enough for my needs ​


----------



## hifi80sman

go0gle said:


> Thank you!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I agree.  I hardly ever go wired anymore.  All the equipment is still here, but it's just sooo 2018.


----------



## Bartig

atmosfearz said:


> I've read almost 100 pages, everything is messed up. So, am I right that the most balanced sound in ~100$ price range goes to MTW100 and Lypertek Tevi? Which one would you choose?


I really want to answer this question, so I ordered the Lypertek Tevi too. Mixed feelings about it so far, because I can't rhyme the comments on it so far. How do 'most balanced', 'bass-anemic' and 'like the Sennheiser Momentum True Wireless!' combine? They don't! Really curious about them.


 

Meanwhile, I published two new reviews:
- JadeAudio EW1 - the first TWS by FiiO!
- TRN T200


----------



## Barusu Lamperouge

@Bartig have you tried Tronsmart Spunky Beat? $25 with Aptx sure looks like a good deal on paper. Contemplating them for 11.11


----------



## jagar46

Well the liberty pro 2’s arrived. I was surprised that for my ears the fit is good straight out of the box, I mean really good, passive noise cancellation is surprisingly effective. This being my first pair of truly wireless in ears, I wasn’t expecting really good sound, crap me not I’m totally blown away by the SQ on these. They haven’t got the sound stage and SQ of my over ear Dali’s but they do sound a lot like the over ear Sennheiser Momentum 3’s that I tried for about 2 weeks. This is a lot to take in, it’s like 200% better than I was expecting, I’ve nothing to compare them to truly wirelessly speaking but so far I’m happy.


----------



## Thiago Guedes

jagar46 said:


> Well the liberty pro 2’s arrived. I was surprised that for my ears the fit is good straight out of the box, I mean really good, passive noise cancellation is surprisingly effective. This being my first pair of truly wireless in ears, I wasn’t expecting really good sound, crap me not I’m totally blown away by the SQ on these. They haven’t got the sound stage and SQ of my over ear Dali’s but they do sound a lot like the over ear Sennheiser Momentum 3’s that I tried for about 2 weeks. This is a lot to take in, it’s like 200% better than I was expecting, I’ve nothing to compare them to truly wirelessly speaking but so far I’m happy.



I've just got mine as well, pretty much the same impression. 

Having said that, I believe I am affected by the hiss/static that appears sometimes, regardless of media volume. Ive got a pretty large return window, so I am planning to take some time before deciding about warranty. My only problem is fit, it works well in the ear canal but the none of the wings seems to fit my ear. It's as if they need to be a bit more inside than where they actually are.


----------



## hifi80sman

jagar46 said:


> Well the liberty pro 2’s arrived. I was surprised that for my ears the fit is good straight out of the box, I mean really good, passive noise cancellation is surprisingly effective. This being my first pair of truly wireless in ears, I wasn’t expecting really good sound, crap me not I’m totally blown away by the SQ on these. They haven’t got the sound stage and SQ of my over ear Dali’s but they do sound a lot like the over ear Sennheiser Momentum 3’s that I tried for about 2 weeks. This is a lot to take in, it’s like 200% better than I was expecting, I’ve nothing to compare them to truly wirelessly speaking but so far I’m happy.


Do you notice any hissing?  Turn the volume down all the way, but still keep the track playing.  Do you hear a high noise floor?


----------



## clerkpalmer

Thiago Guedes said:


> I've just got mine as well, pretty much the same impression.
> 
> Having said that, I believe I am affected by the hiss/static that appears sometimes, regardless of media volume. Ive got a pretty large return window, so I am planning to take some time before deciding about warranty. My only problem is fit, it works well in the ear canal but the none of the wings seems to fit my ear. It's as if they need to be a bit more inside than where they actually are.


Try turning them almost vertical to get the wings the fit. They need to be angled quite a bit in my experience.


----------



## sanity8me

It's really surprising to me how little impressions/reviews we have for what are potentially the "best" true wireless buds with the mw07+ in terms of total package and especially SQ.

This thread has some great feedback on them when you search for it however. Just surprised they're not a bigger deal in the audiophile community.

Any SQ comparisons for the mw07+ against any top tier wireless buds or IEMs?


----------



## clerkpalmer (Nov 7, 2019)

sanity8me said:


> It's really surprising to me how little impressions/reviews we have for what are potentially the "best" true wireless buds with the mw07+ in terms of total package and especially SQ.
> 
> This thread has some great feedback on them when you search for it however. Just surprised they're not a bigger deal in the audiophile community.
> 
> Any SQ comparisons for the mw07+ against any top tier wireless buds or IEMs?



The reason is because the original mw07 has been discussed extensively in this thread and the new plus model does not offer any changes to the sq except that it apparently does not support AAC.  I think the general consensus is they still are the best sounding tws available with some preferring the sennheiser (not me).

Edit rereading your question.  I agree with you and I think they should be a bigger deal. That said a comparison to a 300 wired iem may not be fair. They can definitely hang with many wired iems I've tried sub 200.  They are a must own in my view.


----------



## go0gle

jagar46 said:


> Well the liberty pro 2’s arrived. I was surprised that for my ears the fit is good straight out of the box, I mean really good, passive noise cancellation is surprisingly effective. This being my first pair of truly wireless in ears, I wasn’t expecting really good sound, crap me not I’m totally blown away by the SQ on these. They haven’t got the sound stage and SQ of my over ear Dali’s but they do sound a lot like the over ear Sennheiser Momentum 3’s that I tried for about 2 weeks. This is a lot to take in, it’s like 200% better than I was expecting, I’ve nothing to compare them to truly wirelessly speaking but so far I’m happy.



Did you play with EQs in the app ? I put together a few tracks that I feel show their signature pretty well here 

https://open.spotify.com/playlist/3AzDm1ZU7EH9y3etN4wVzc?si=V7VSzWNaQrakg_NblIkeIA

set it to electronic or rock and see what you think


----------



## jagar46

hifi80sman said:


> Do you notice any hissing?  Turn the volume down all the way, but still keep the track playing.  Do you hear a high noise floor?



A tiny hissing yes, I mean only if I turn the volume to zero and still keep playing music and listen attentively, really attentively, who would do that? If I stop the music, leave the volume where it is or turn the volume right down, no hissing. The hissing on the over ear Momentum 3’s was much worse, had to tap on the left side to make it stop. I’ll only be using these with my phone a galaxy s10. I believe these are the new batch, got them from Amazon Germany delivered to France, but I had to wait for more than a week before they were available to order.


----------



## jagar46

go0gle said:


> Did you play with EQs in the app ? I put together a few tracks that I feel show their signature pretty well here
> 
> https://open.spotify.com/playlist/3AzDm1ZU7EH9y3etN4wVzc?si=V7VSzWNaQrakg_NblIkeIA
> 
> set it to electronic or rock and see what you think



yeah I tried them all, the best for me is the souncore signature and personalized earphones setting, in fact there’s not much difference, I found the rock and electronic to be way up in the clouds with the highs,


----------



## jagar46

So for those with the liberty pro 2, is the SQ the norm for a truly wireless or is it better than most? Is apple’s new offering better than these SQ wise?


----------



## clerkpalmer

Better than most. Definitely better than air pods pro to my ears


----------



## go0gle (Nov 7, 2019)

jagar46 said:


> yeah I tried them all, the best for me is the souncore signature and personalized earphones setting, in fact there’s not much difference, I found the rock and electronic to be way up in the clouds with the highs,



Ah, I see. The highs are exactly why I use the electronic/rock .. they are a bit "reserved" for my taste, but it does depend on the record as well.. sometimes the signature EQ is fine. Enjoy


----------



## sanity8me

clerkpalmer said:


> The reason is because the original mw07 has been discussed extensively in this thread and the new plus model does not offer any changes to the sq except that it apparently does not support AAC.  I think the general consensus is they still are the best sounding tws available with some preferring the sennheiser (not me).
> 
> Edit rereading your question.  I agree with you and I think they should be a bigger deal. That said a comparison to a 300 wired iem may not be fair. They can definitely hang with many wired iems I've tried sub 200.  They are a must own in my view.



Tma6 mentioned that he thought the bass was cleaner on the Plus version - although that it could be a placebo effect.

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/goi...-too-soon-or-are-we-there-yet.861024/page-944

I could've sworn I also heard a YouTube review that mentioned something similar.  Will need to investigate, but wouldn't be surprised if there was some subtle tweaking - which could mean a big deal here in headfi.

I still would like to read about how these compare to the best IEMs and buds in terms of audio quality, even in different price ranges. I think audiophiles in general may be pleasantly surprised at how far TWS in-ears have come, especially now that the mw07's main flaws have been addressed with the Plus version.

___

On a separate note, I don't want to be a Debbie Downer, but I'd like to see this thread end and for a new revitalized thread to be born. We have quite a few candidates here who can make this work. An ongoing, updated tier list per price range on the first page would be ideal for everyone and their mothers.


----------



## tma6

sanity8me said:


> It's really surprising to me how little impressions/reviews we have for what are potentially the "best" true wireless buds with the mw07+ in terms of total package and especially SQ.
> 
> This thread has some great feedback on them when you search for it however. Just surprised they're not a bigger deal in the audiophile community.
> 
> Any SQ comparisons for the mw07+ against any top tier wireless buds or IEMs?



Hey, I've been seeing a bunch of people asking about the MW07+ so I'm going to re-post this for those who are interested. I did a full review here:

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/goi...re-we-there-yet.861024/page-944#post-15269289

I did have connectivity issues with two separate pairs, while having none with other TWS that I tried w my iPhone. For me it was frustrating so I returned both and using the APP now - full review to come soon. 

Hope this helps!


----------



## Bartig (Nov 7, 2019)

Dani157 said:


> @Bartig have you tried Tronsmart Spunky Beat? $25 with Aptx sure looks like a good deal on paper. Contemplating them for 11.11


I have it coming my way, heard some good things about them. Haven’t tested them myself.



clerkpalmer said:


> The reason is because the original mw07 has been discussed extensively in this thread and the new plus model does not offer any changes to the sq except that it apparently does not support AAC.  I think the general consensus is they still are the best sounding tws available with some preferring the sennheiser (not me).
> 
> Edit rereading your question.  I agree with you and I think they should be a bigger deal. That said a comparison to a 300 wired iem may not be fair. They can definitely hang with many wired iems I've tried sub 200.  They are a must own in my view.


The original MW07 is still one of the best wireless earphones, but as every other model, it has flaws. While I absolutely love the soundstage and instrument placement, the highs are a little too splashy for me in songs that already up the higher frequencies out of themself. On the MW07, I always meet a certain song that stops me from enjoying it. That’s why the Shanling MTW100 (with balanced armature) is my favorite.


----------



## tma6

sanity8me said:


> Tma6 mentioned that he thought the bass was cleaner on the Plus version - although that it could be a placebo effect.
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/goi...-too-soon-or-are-we-there-yet.861024/page-944
> 
> ...




Also agree that it would be great to have a new more organized thread. I've been following for a while and it was difficult to get a coherent sense of the TWS that people have tried without reading through tons of small posts. I'd be up for helping in whatever way I can.


----------



## go0gle

I did some research and I guess anker are using https://www.qualcomm.com/products/qcc3020 in the lp2 



jagar46 said:


> So for those with the liberty pro 2, is the SQ the norm for a truly wireless or is it better than most? Is apple’s new offering better than these SQ wise?



My feeling is that they are simply punching above their price point. That large dynamic driver helps a lot in my opinion, the low end is pure joy. 



clerkpalmer said:


> Better than most. Definitely better than air pods pro to my ears



ah ;( 

 .. My pros should be here this weekend and I fear the same, but perhaps I can use them for different circumstances. 
​


----------



## clerkpalmer

go0gle said:


> .. My pros should be here this weekend and I fear the same, but perhaps I can use them for different circumstances.
> [/COLOR][/SIZE]​



Mine are going back. I have no circumstances where I accept less than very good sound particularly with so many choices available.


----------



## webvan

jagar46 said:


> Well the liberty pro 2’s arrived. I was surprised that for my ears the fit is good straight out of the box, I* mean really good, passive noise cancellation is surprisingly effective*. This being my first pair of truly wireless in ears, I wasn’t expecting really good sound, crap me not I’m totally blown away by the SQ on these. They haven’t got the sound stage and SQ of my over ear Dali’s but they do sound a lot like the over ear Sennheiser Momentum 3’s that I tried for about 2 weeks. This is a lot to take in, it’s like 200% better than I was expecting, I’ve nothing to compare them to truly wirelessly speaking but so far I’m happy.



That's interesting because up to now we'd had several posters here saying the passive isolation was pretty poor, which kept me from getting them. Might have to rethink that now then to get a taste of that SQ, although I'm still not a fan of having things sticking out of my ears, didn't like the Sony WF-1000x doing that and the Sony WF-1000xM3 were even worse !

So has anyone with the APPs using them with Android noticed the same problem I mentioned earlier today with music not resuming (APPs still connected by the music comes out of the speaker of the Android until I toggle BT) after a call or is it me ?


----------



## go0gle

clerkpalmer said:


> Mine are going back. I have no circumstances where I accept less than very good sound particularly with so many choices available.



The noise cancel or the audio pass trough perhaps ? Call quality ? Comfort level... they are much lighter.. which is probably part of the reason they don't sound as good but still  


And most importantly of course, feeling hip af strolling down the whole foods isle ?


----------



## LordToneeus

go0gle said:


> The noise cancel or the audio pass trough perhaps ? Call quality ? Comfort level... they are much lighter.. which is probably part of the reason they don't sound as good but still
> 
> 
> And most importantly of course, feeling hip af strolling down the whole foods isle ?



One ought not discount the experience of feeling hip!


----------



## clerkpalmer

go0gle said:


> The noise cancel or the audio pass trough perhaps ? Call quality ? Comfort level... they are much lighter.. which is probably part of the reason they don't sound as good but still
> 
> 
> And most importantly of course, feeling hip af strolling down the whole foods isle ?


Yep.  If sq is a secondary concern, you take calls and listen to audio books, the APP is a very nice option. I only use my tws for music, rarely calls and never audio books. I will admit the are comfortable, light and well designed in a way that few can replicate


----------



## hifi80sman

go0gle said:


> The noise cancel or the audio pass trough perhaps ? Call quality ? Comfort level... they are much lighter.. which is probably part of the reason they don't sound as good but still
> 
> 
> And most importantly of course, feeling hip af strolling down the whole foods isle ?


Oh, you totally need the APP if you want to be a hipster strolling thru Whole Foods aka Whole Paycheck.

Seriously, if the SQ was better, shoot, they'd be arguably the best on the market, especially for iOS users.


----------



## hifi80sman

webvan said:


> That's interesting because up to now we'd had several posters here saying the passive isolation was pretty poor, which kept me from getting them. Might have to rethink that now then to get a taste of that SQ, although I'm still not a fan of having things sticking out of my ears, didn't like the Sony WF-1000x doing that and the Sony WF-1000xM3 were even worse !
> 
> So has anyone with the APPs using them with Android noticed the same problem I mentioned earlier today with music not resuming (APPs still connected by the music comes out of the speaker of the Android until I toggle BT) after a call or is it me ?


I recall a majority of teh feedback has been passive isolation  as less than stellar.  Certainly, anatomy and different points of reference will be factors in one's impressions, but I can 100% confirm that *for me*, isolation is not great and I would not recommend to someone looking for isolation.


----------



## varta

Hi all, did anyone compare some of the recommended TWS to a regular mid-tier IEM? It seems pretty hard to get a reasonable idea about the level of SQ from the available TWS reviews as I haven't found a comparison to any regular IEMs. I'm currently using VSonic GR07 Classic and would like to understand if any of the TWS currently sold would match up to this level of SQ or it's still too early for that.


----------



## tma6 (Nov 7, 2019)

varta said:


> Hi all, did anyone compare some of the recommended TWS to a regular mid-tier IEM? It seems pretty hard to get a reasonable idea about the level of SQ from the available TWS reviews as I haven't found a comparison to any regular IEMs. I'm currently using VSonic GR07 Classic and would like to understand if any of the TWS currently sold would match up to this level of SQ or it's still too early for that.



I compared the MW07+ to my $150 Final Audio E4000. I'd say the E4000 still have a more realistic and natural midrange and treble, and a fantastic if a little loose bass. They are close though and the MW07+ bass is more impactful and weighty, which makes it a bit better for certain genres such as hip-hop, funk, R&B, etc. Love the Final Audios though, they are mid-low tier king IEMs in my opinion, particularly if you like a warm-ish signature.


----------



## tma6

By the way, who else is interested? Def a bit pricey, but I find 1more to be a cool company. Says these things should be available next week. 

https://www.gizmochina.com/2019/10/16/1more-anc-true-wireless-stereo-earbuds-to-launch-next-month/


----------



## Barusu Lamperouge

Bartig said:


> I have it coming my way, heard some good things about them. Haven’t tested them myself.



Think I'll just pull the trigger on 11.11 discount+coupons make it irresistible. Thanks for your reply


----------



## hifi80sman

tma6 said:


> By the way, who else is interested? Def a bit pricey, but I find 1more to be a cool company. Says these things should be available next week.
> 
> https://www.gizmochina.com/2019/10/16/1more-anc-true-wireless-stereo-earbuds-to-launch-next-month/


Those look REALLY nice.  I actually like the 1More Stylish, but these look like the Stylish on some massive anabolic steroids.


----------



## tma6

hifi80sman said:


> Those look REALLY nice.  I actually like the 1More Stylish, but these look like the Stylish on some massive anabolic steroids.



Yeah I also really liked the 1More! I thought they were some of the best when they first came out, but there are just better options now. Lolll stylish on steroids is exactly what this looks like. 1DD/1BA seems promising particularly since 1more has a great track record with multiple driver IEMs.


----------



## wizll

jagar46 said:


> So for those with the liberty pro 2, is the SQ the norm for a truly wireless or is it better than most? Is apple’s new offering better than these SQ wise?



you definitely jumped straight to a better than most pair of TWS. 
i started with the Chi-Fi, and don't get me wrong, I still use my anbes359, mpow t5 and tranya's, but the SQ on the LP2's are way up there in comparison.


----------



## AtariPrime

Just got an email this morning, the Earin M-2 is back in stock.


----------



## d3myz (Nov 7, 2019)

Ok Folks, I just got my L2pro replacements. Note that my particular issue was that I thought the mic sounded bad and siri's voice also sounded far away and a bit distorted. the new "version" I received has a near silent noise floor like my previous set, but the pop/clicks I used to get while engaging tracks on spotify or apple books are no longer present.

Firmware version is the stock 1.09 of the new buds, I thought i'd wait to update. As far a sound comparison, there is no difference in the gain or  but the new buds are quieter by 1/16 on my apple devices. There is however a Very Noticeable difference in the sub bass in the new buds. Like a LOT dudes!
They new ones bump way less. I don't know if it's that the drivers aren't broken in yet or that there's more Bass in the old version, but the BA's in the new version are certainly more crisp, the mids also sound a touch cleaner. I feel like this was my experience the first time I use the L2pro and the BA's have just mellowed out. I dunno. We are also talking two different firmware's and possible hardware versions. I tested first on my XS MAX, then on my Ipad Air current gen and achieved the same result. I think I like the new version better, The bass is def. more balanced and the mids sound better to me which were my to only irritations with the first version. This is the best sounding TWS' i've heard, so I can only imaging how the MW07  and the Sony's sound like.

I should mention I used the Piano and the Soundcore Sig. setting in the app for both buds. I set the volume at the same level and used 4 tracks and the same stock tips.

I actually think the new version has less sub mass and more mid bass, I'm really enjoying them.

Also, has anyone else noticed they cannot control the volume from the buds during a phone call? This happens with both the new and old What?

Edit: The old buds are quieter by about 3/16ths. The more tracks i listen to the more noticeable it is. In some songs the old buds sound better, the new ones just don't have as much sub-bass, damn I may have to keep both. If we are talking "audiophile" tuning i'd say the newer ones are def. more like a Tevi, with much better bass. Also, 1.09 is the most current firmware for the new version, weird.


----------



## tma6

d3myz said:


> Ok Folks, I just got my L2pro replacements. Note that my particular issue was that I thought the mic sounded bad and siri's voice also sounded far away and a bit distorted. the new "version" I received has a near silent noise floor like my previous set, but the pop/clicks I used to get while engaging tracks on spotify or apple books are no longer present.
> 
> Firmware version is the stock 1.09 of the new buds, I thought i'd wait to update. As far a sound comparison, there is no difference in the gain or  but the new buds are quieter by 1/16 on my apple devices. There is however a Very Noticeable difference in the sub bass in the new buds. Like a LOT dudes!
> They new ones bump way less. I don't know if it's that the drivers aren't broken in yet or that there's more Bass in the old version, but the BA's in the new version are certainly more crisp, the mids also sound a touch cleaner. I feel like this was my experience the first time I use the L2pro and the BA's have just mellowed out. I dunno. We are also talking two different firmware's and possible hardware versions. I tested first on my XS MAX, then on my Ipad Air current gen and achieved the same result. I think I like the new version better, The bass is def. more balanced and the mids sound better to me which were my to only irritations with the first version. This is the best sounding TWS' i've heard, so I can only imaging how the MW07  and the Sony's sound like.
> ...



This is interesting. Very into the Tevi signature, but def would like some more low end. How are they for phone calls?


----------



## chinmie

this is a review about the Soundpeats Truengine SE, it's in japanese, but he provides English captions, which is great 



in essence he says the sound is more or less the same as the older soundpeats truengine, which as far as i know from reviews is not too great, at least compared to the Syllable version


----------



## CocaCola15

Thiago Guedes said:


> I've just got mine as well, pretty much the same impression.
> 
> Having said that, I believe I am affected by the hiss/static that appears sometimes, regardless of media volume. Ive got a pretty large return window, so I am planning to take some time before deciding about warranty. My only problem is fit, it works well in the ear canal but the none of the wings seems to fit my ear. It's as if they need to be a bit more inside than where they actually are.


I just took the wings off. Feels odd, but they stay in place. I use bulby Comply with them, tweak the treble just a wee bit. Perfect.


----------



## CocaCola15

go0gle said:


> Ah, I see. The highs are exactly why I use the electronic/rock .. they are a bit "reserved" for my taste, but it does depend on the record as well.. sometimes the signature EQ is fine. Enjoy


I skip the Soundcore app and use Kaiser Audio app in iOS with a 20-band EQ. Add a bit of treble because I also like just a little more high end. But it does depend on the track.


----------



## jasaero

Minarets said:


> I put in my sons SSK last night and it doesn’t have the right tips on it for me. It had the small ones from out of the box but man, sounded like a $5 pair of headphones.  Super tinny and no bass.  I assume and hope with the correct tips that would change?
> He is 13 so he had small tips on there.



Yes, has to be tips.  The only real issue with the design is it's sorta a sideways inserted seal regime.  I can get good seal and use with stock tips, but when push buttons it mutes them cause it's pushing tip into some part of my ear wall and plugging it apparently.  The SpinFit 360 tips work much better as they have joint on them sorta that allows tip to sorta rotate toward ear canal better.  Spinfits only sound marginally better when not messing with buttons, but can mess with buttons when using spinfits and not have audio anomalies.


----------



## go0gle

CocaCola15 said:


> I skip the Soundcore app and use Kaiser Audio app in iOS with a 20-band EQ. Add a bit of treble because I also like just a little more high end. But it does depend on the track.



Now, the question is can said app be used with the airpods pro ?


----------



## Minarets

hifi80sman said:


> Oh, you totally need the APP if you want to be a hipster strolling thru Whole Foods aka Whole Paycheck.
> 
> Seriously, if the SQ was better, shoot, they'd be arguably the best on the market, especially for iOS users.



EQ’d thru the phone under “electronic” I quite enjoy the sound.  Analytical? Nope. Fun? For me, yes.  Boosted bass slightly and elevated treble. That, for me is where I like it. Better than everything? Nope. But for an iPhone user, these are fantastic.  Still need to see how it does on a plane. Have a cross country flight Monday.  That will be deciding factor.


----------



## howdy

AtariPrime said:


> Just got an email this morning, the Earin M-2 is back in stock.


That's awesome!
I'm glad they are still showing some interest in this market, they have been out of stock for 5 months at least. My M2s are definitely one pair I would never sell. I hope there is a M3 as I would absolutely buy one.


----------



## sanity8me

tma6 said:


> Also agree that it would be great to have a new more organized thread. I've been following for a while and it was difficult to get a coherent sense of the TWS that people have tried without reading through tons of small posts. I'd be up for helping in whatever way I can.



Someone just needs to take on that initiative. This thread is all over place - an updated tier list per price point would be awesome.

By the way, I found the YouTube review that mentions that the bass is more "vibrant" on the mw07+ compared to the originals.

Around 8:24 into it:


So I think the audiophile community needs to definitely take a better look at the updated Plus version.


----------



## tma6 (Nov 7, 2019)

sanity8me said:


> Someone just needs to take on that initiative. This thread is all over place - an updated tier list per price point would be awesome.
> 
> By the way, I found the YouTube review that mentions that the bass is more "vibrant" on the mw07+ compared to the originals.
> 
> ...





This review is pretty spot on from my experience. Definitely think that without connectivity issues and lack of AAC, the mw07+ are among the best on the market right now for everything except ANC (which is passable at best). SQ is on point for sure particularly with some mid-preference EQ.

Also, I'm willing to try to create a new thread, the only issue is we need to get people behind it to switch over.

Airpods Pro review coming either later tn or tomorrow.


----------



## sanity8me

tma6 said:


> This review is pretty spot on from my experience. Definitely think that without connectivity issues and lack of AAC, the mw07+ are among the best on the market right now for everything except ANC (which is passable at best). SQ is on point for sure particularly with some mid-preference EQ.
> 
> Also, I'm willing to try to create a new thread, the only issue is we need to get people behind it to switch over.
> 
> Airpods Pro review coming either later tn or tomorrow.



I think that would have to come naturally, but if you start with a first post that has an extensive list of all the well known and highly praised options mentioned in this thread, especially the well known chifi considerations, that would be amazing and super helpful. The community needs it. I don't think it's an easy task though. I also recommend to have links to some of the superb reviews/impressions from this thread. 

I mean let's face it, wireless is the future and, even if it's not there yet SQ wise, many of us, including myself, will gladly sacrifice a bit of SQ potential at a certain price range for the sake of convenience and comfort.


----------



## Blueshound24

I just have to share a rant I placed on the Shanling thread about something that I'm sure others have complained about before. 

Why don't TWS earphone makers make a case that larger ear tips will fit. Why not just make a bigger hole for them to fit into? It is so frustrating to have to take them off and put them on every time to charge them. 

TWS manufacturers I'm talking to you!


----------



## wizll

also just got my replacement lp2 and put it through the paces. while I still hear when the audio initializes the white noise is noticeably quieter than my older unit. at first, I thought it was no different, then I put on my old ones and it was much more present than I remembered. maybe i had gotten used to it. in any case, I'm satisfied as the sq is just as great.


----------



## tma6

sanity8me said:


> I think that would have to come naturally, but if you start with a first post that has an extensive list of all the well known and highly praised options mentioned in this thread, especially the well known chifi considerations, that would be amazing and super helpful. The community needs it. I don't think it's an easy task though. I also recommend to have links to some of the superb reviews/impressions from this thread.
> 
> I mean let's face it, wireless is the future and, even if it's not there yet SQ wise, many of us, including myself, will gladly sacrifice a bit of SQ potential at a certain price range for the sake of convenience and comfort.



I'll see what I can do to compile that info and start a new thread. I think I'll start by laying out a partial list here and have people weigh in if they don't see something that should be on there.


----------



## sanity8me

tma6 said:


> I'll see what I can do to compile that info and start a new thread. I think I'll start by laying out a partial list here and have people weigh in if they don't see something that should be on there.



Godspeed!


----------



## ngd3

tma6 said:


> I'll see what I can do to compile that info and start a new thread. I think I'll start by laying out a partial list here and have people weigh in if they don't see something that should be on there.



Do it as a "True Wireless IEM ranking"  thread. Then most posts will be rankings, reasonings and pros/cons. Would be a great way to condense opinions for all to dive in and narrow down what might suit them


----------



## sanity8me

ngd3 said:


> Do it as a "True Wireless IEM ranking"  thread. Then most posts will be rankings, reasonings and pros/cons. Would be a great way to condense opinions for all to dive in and narrow down what might suit them



Agreed. Although I believe some  true wireless earphones aren't really considered "IEMs".

Also, I think comparisons should be highly encouraged and recommended, and that goes not only against other TWS earphones, but against well known wired earphones so people on this site can have a better impression on what to expect.


----------



## CocaCola15

go0gle said:


> Now, the question is can said app be used with the airpods pro ?


No reason why not. But It can only be used with onboard tracks, not streaming services.


----------



## d3myz

tma6 said:


> This is interesting. Very into the Tevi signature, but def would like some more low end. How are they for phone calls?


Much better for phone calls than the first version.


----------



## gibletzor

gibletzor said:


> I'm 99% sure the stock tips for the Echo Buds are exactly the same as the Galaxy Buds, and I hated those stock tips. So far my leading candidate for retaining sound quality and still being able to charge are my MS JVC Spiral Dots. I've tried my Tennmak Whirlwinds and Spinft CP-100Z also and both sounded great but either wouldn't sit right to charge or were very hard to get sitting in the right place. The MS Spiral Dots snap into place more reliably. I don't have all my tips with me as I'm at work so I'll let you know when I get a chance to try more!
> 
> Meh, the Spiral Dots are pretty finicky to get seated right to charge too...  This charging case may be the downfall of these buds.



@webvan So my suspicions about the Echo Buds and Galaxy Buds tips being the same was partially right.  They're the same style of shallow insertion, narrow bore tip.  They would be a wide bore tip but they've got that rubber lip that cover a good portion of the bore to make it smaller for who knows what reason...  The biggest difference is the Echo Buds tips are slightly shorter and slightly fatter overall, but the biggest Echo Buds tips are the same size roughly as the medium Galaxy Buds tips.
 

In the pictures I added, the Galaxy Buds medium tips are on the left, the Echo Buds large tips are on the left with the blue inside.

So far I've not been able to find a tip outside of this style that will allow the Echo Buds to charge reliably.  I've got a couple other similar looking sets with wider bores coming from Amazon this weekend.  Otherwise, they sound phenomenal with Spinfit CP-100Zs Medium, JVC Spiral Dot MediumSmall, Medium Auvios, and Medium Tennmak Whirlwinds.


----------



## webvan (Nov 8, 2019)

Thanks for the pics. I'll see how they work for me when the Echo Buds arrives but I generally prefer wide and shallow tips for comfort, a bit like the Jabra Elites Sport, 65Ts (not quite enough to my liking) or the LTA+'s. There can be issue with maintaining the seal with this kind of tips but the Echo Buds have optional wings to take care of that problem it seems.

Having compared the MPOW M5 with the Final E LL and with the Jabra Elite Sport L tips, I find the latter have more "sparkle". The Final E LL are more secure in my right ear but make the bud stick out too much from my left ear and as often (always?) mixing different tips (unless it's just the size) creates an imbalance and different coloration.


----------



## gibletzor

webvan said:


> Thanks for the pics. I'll see how they work for me when the Echo Buds arrives but I generally prefer wide and shallow tips for comfort, a bit like the Jabra Eliste Sport, 65Ts (not quite enough to my liking) or the LTA+'s. There can be issue with maintaining the seal with this kind of tips but the Echo Buds have optional wings to take care of that problem it seems.
> 
> Having compared the MPOW M5 with the Final E LL and with the Jabra Elite Sport L tips, I find the latter have more "sparkle". The Final E LL are more secure in my right ear but make the bud stick out too much from my left ear and as often (always?) mixing different tips (unless it's just the size) creates an imbalance and different coloration.



I haven't been using the wing tips at all yet.  They tend to hurt my ears more than the extra stabilization helps, at least on my Galaxy Buds they did.  I'll try em out this weekend maybe.


----------



## gdv brisbane

gdv brisbane said:


> I'm coming to TWS having been a long time Etymotic user (ER6i to ER4P to HF3). Is it too much to expect any current TWS to equal the transparent resolution and sparkly highs that I get from an Ety BA driver? I tried the APP yesterday but they were "muddy" compared to my Etys, where I feel like I can hear every string on an acoustic guitar ringing out. It would be good to know if I'm expecting too much from TWS at this stage.





chinmie said:


> even other wired IEMs will have a hard time matching the Ety signature sound, and that kind of sound would only works in noisy environments with that Ety deep insertion.





gdv brisbane said:


> Thanks for the advice. I'm hoping that the Amazon Echo Buds may offer something similar to the Etys as they have dual Knowles BAs and seem to be deep insertion. They also fit the Comply foam tips and so are closer to my current Ety+Shure Black Olives set up (old school, I know...).





chinmie said:


> just be cautious that Knowles driver types are plenty, and sadly not many products would state what type they are using. for instance, i have the Earin M2 which is a single Knowles driver, but the sound is anything but the Etys. it sounds so much warmer in comparison. the Galaxy buds which has micro dynamic driver can be set (via app) much more similar to the Etys, because it has similar lean mids and similar peaks in the mid-highs


Can anyone with the Echo Buds comment on their SQ compared to the APPs (higher end) and/or the SSKs (lower end). I appreciate they're half the price of the APP but I'm trying to gauge how much of a compromise they are. I'm also trying to not be too shocked compared to my Etys...


----------



## webvan

howdy said:


> That's awesome!
> I'm glad they are still showing some interest in this market, they have been out of stock for 5 months at least. My M2s are definitely one pair I would never sell. I hope there is a M3 as I would absolutely buy one.



Isn't fit/comfort a bit of a concern though , I did not manage to get a good fit with their clone, the Tiso i5, regardless of the tips I used. I'm guessing the foam eartips of the M2 do the job but are apparently not available as replacements ? Well they recommend Comply tips but on the Comply site people are complaining that they are not the same as the stock ones and don't work well...

As a side note, I could swear I read here the other day that the Earin website was for sale ? Or maybe it was that they M2 were no longer on sale


----------



## pokenguyen

I'm really torn between MW07+ and Sony WF-1000XM3, the sound (after EQ Sony) are quite close. MW07 vocal is thicker and more emotional than Sony and plenty of bass, while Sony has more bass and at half a price in my country.


----------



## Thiago Guedes

CocaCola15 said:


> I just took the wings off. Feels odd, but they stay in place. I use bulby Comply with them, tweak the treble just a wee bit. Perfect.




Yeah, that's what I was thinking. Will try today to see if it gets any better. 

Do you think these Comply buds add a ton of difference? Are they really worth? 

Thanks,


----------



## chinmie

I saw another ANC TWS in Aliexpress. Looks interesting, they have video demo on how the ANC perform. 
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000337162355.html

They say it also has APTX, but it uses Airoha chip..can anyone confirm that it's  true it really supports APTX?


----------



## CocaCola15

Thiago Guedes said:


> Yeah, that's what I was thinking. Will try today to see if it gets any better.
> 
> Do you think these Comply buds add a ton of difference? Are they really worth?
> 
> Thanks,


I had some around from past uses, and I do prefer foam to silicone in general for sound and isolation. Plus, I think they feel more secure with foam, esp when not using the wings. Comply tips are not cheap, agree. But just my preference.


----------



## mattedialdoc

My Apple AirPod Pro arrived this week and I’ve had a few days to demo them. These are my first Airpods. My wife and kids have the prior models and enjoy them. They are not audiophiles obviously. 
The mainstream reviews have been overwhelmingly complementary, and I am in agreement. The integration of the APP into an Apple ecosystem is a huge plus. Epitome of “Plug & Play”. That shear fact alone makes them very attractive.

Here are a few notes from my still VERY Newbie ears:

As Bartig wrote in his excellent comparison piece, pretty much everything sounds “better” than the APP. I’ve tried now maybe ten $50 ChiFi TWS and the APP are better than a few and not as good as others. The overall SS/SQ of, say, the MPOW T5, Bomaker SiFi, and SSK is better than AAP. But the APP are not bad...just not as detailed. 
One surprise: these things have some BASS. You won’t be disappointed if you have missed bass on ChiFi.

The ANC: one word “awesome”. I have the Bose QC20, which arguably are the best in ear ANC device. I was able to compare these at home....and on an airplane flight this week! I’m going out on a limb and saying the APP are 88% as good as the QC20 in their ANC. Haha. Ok so I made that up. But, seriously, they are almost as good...and I mean VERY close. And they do that without the pressure sensation you get with the Bose. Amazing.

I did and do have a hard time getting a good seal with the large tips. I use the “seal test” and it takes me a few times to get a good seal. My ears are weird. Bu5 I’ll look forward to some aftermarket tip options.

Sorry if this isn’t particular about highs and mids and etc etc. I did send back my Soundcore L2P...because they hissed and because they were too big and awkward for me. But those sounded an order of magnitude better than the other TWS I’ve tried. But looking at the whole package, the APP are pretty sweet.


----------



## Bartig

chinmie said:


> this is a review about the Soundpeats Truengine SE, it's in japanese, but he provides English captions, which is great
> 
> 
> 
> in essence he says the sound is more or less the same as the older soundpeats truengine, which as far as i know from reviews is not too great, at least compared to the Syllable version




I just tested and reviewed the SoundPEATS TrueEngine SE. It's a bass fest.


----------



## webvan

chinmie said:


> I saw another ANC TWS in Aliexpress. Looks interesting, they have video demo on how the ANC perform.
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000337162355.html
> 
> They say it also has APTX, but it uses Airoha chip..can anyone confirm that it's  true it really supports APTX?



That's a nice demo they're providing and their ANC sounds pretty efficient.


----------



## actorlife

Bartig said:


> I just tested and reviewed the SoundPEATS TrueEngine SE. It's a bass fest.


Like you said these are basically the Syllables. Too bad I dislike treble rolloff. Thanks for the reviewS bartig.


----------



## chinmie

Bartig said:


> I just tested and reviewed the SoundPEATS TrueEngine SE. It's a bass fest.



Thanks for confirming, i would steer clear of this one then 



webvan said:


> That's a nice demo they're providing and their ANC sounds pretty efficient.


Indeed, but I'm still hesitant to try because of no reviews, as there's no chance of returning it if i don't like the sound. I found this selling it cheaper, but don't have experience purchasing from that site
https://mobilephonegift.com/product/mpg-bqc35-anc-tws-earbuds-active-noise-cancelling/


----------



## Minarets

Jim’s review of the APP is as spot on as one can be.  Even though he thinks the ANC of APP is better than the Sony WF1000m3.  They way he describes good sound vs falling in love with your music again (for some otter brands) is well put.  And that if you are using these for commuting or travel these are recommended where as some others are for pure listening experiences. That’s exactly what it boils down to, imo.


----------



## WesennTony

Out of curiosity I bought JVC spiral dots++ and put them on Nuarl nt01ax the other day. Man what a difference! The original spiral dots give a darker and richer sound with slight bass boost, whereas dots++ clear the mids and make the sound more fluid. A perfect match to nt01ax for my ears! They're expensive (~$36 for two pairs) but totally worth it.

Also I found that after my LG V30 updates to Android Pie, all my TWS default to Aptx instead of AAC as before. That's a great relief and I'm happy for a V50 upgrade.


----------



## d3myz

Bartig said:


> I just tested and reviewed the SoundPEATS TrueEngine SE. It's a bass fest.


Bassfest In a cave.


----------



## webvan

chinmie said:


> Thanks for confirming, i would steer clear of this one then
> 
> 
> Indeed, but I'm still hesitant to try because of no reviews, as there's no chance of returning it if i don't like the sound. I found this selling it cheaper, but don't have experience purchasing from that site
> https://mobilephonegift.com/product/mpg-bqc35-anc-tws-earbuds-active-noise-cancelling/



Never heard of this site either but since you can pay with PayPal ($2.70 fee) I suppose it's not too risky. I'm not sure if they ship right away though or if it's at the end of the countdown?


----------



## d3myz

WesennTony said:


> Out of curiosity I bought JVC spiral dots++ and put them on Nuarl nt01ax the other day. Man what a difference! The original spiral dots give a darker and richer sound with slight bass boost, whereas dots++ clear the mids and make the sound more fluid. A perfect match to nt01ax for my ears! They're expensive (~$36 for two pairs) but totally worth it.
> 
> Also I found that after my LG V30 updates to Android Pie, all my TWS default to Aptx instead of AAC as before. That's a great relief and I'm happy for a V50 upgrade.


Dang, bro. I love spiral dots, didn't know about these ++'s I just searched and couldn't find them anywhere for cheaper than $60 for two pair. UGH. Where did you get yours?


----------



## howdy

webvan said:


> Isn't fit/comfort a bit of a concern though , I did not manage to get a good fit with their clone, the Tiso i5, regardless of the tips I used. I'm guessing the foam eartips of the M2 do the job but are apparently not available as replacements ? Well they recommend Comply tips but on the Comply site people are complaining that they are not the same as the stock ones and don't work well...
> 
> As a side note, I could swear I read here the other day that the Earin website was for sale ? Or maybe it was that they M2 were no longer on sale


I actually never tried the tips that came with mine(they are still actually in the paper they came in) I put Spinfits on right away. They are so small and comfortable, I have big ears, you can barely tell I have them in when looking directly at me. I actually listening to them now.

As for their website, they just reintroduced the M2s again, meaning you can buy them again. Anyone looking for a really small TW better grab these before they sell out again.


----------



## BigZ12

I just got the Tronsmart Spunky Beats.
It's a bit bassy, otherwise sound is ok for the price tag. Fit is awesome with Spinfit CP360. So snug the don't stick out at all (in my ears)

But before I care to talk more about sound, I have to say the touch controls are not so good. So easy to touch and make the wrong command. 
After I paired them the first time I have next track on left bud, and last track on the right. It should be the other way around.
I then tried both methods showing in their Youtube vids to reset them and try pairing again. But it's IMPOSSIBLE to reset them with the crappy touch controls. I've tried a "million times". 
Anyone in here who can help, or can relate to my problems?


----------



## WesennTony (Nov 8, 2019)

d3myz said:


> Dang, bro. I love spiral dots, didn't know about these ++'s I just searched and couldn't find them anywhere for cheaper than $60 for two pair. UGH. Where did you get yours?


I got them from ebay. Shipped from Japan so it took about two weeks to come to US. To me they're more comfortable than dots, though lean toward mids. If you like original dots, these may not suit you. The nt01ax have good amount of bass, but the mids is a little bit "fogged" to my taste. The dots++ solves it perfectly.


----------



## cwill

Anyone else notice the SSK box says V4.2 Bluetooth right under the number 5? So they're not BT 5?


----------



## BigZ12

BigZ12 said:


> I just got the Tronsmart Spunky Beats.
> It's a bit bassy, otherwise sound is ok for the price tag. Fit is awesome with Spinfit CP360. So snug the don't stick out at all (in my ears)
> 
> But before I care to talk more about sound, I have to say the touch controls are not so good. So easy to touch and make the wrong command.
> ...


I also got the 1st editon, so I don't have volume control... These are going in the bin...


----------



## d3myz

cwill said:


> Anyone else notice the SSK box says V4.2 Bluetooth right under the number 5? So they're not BT 5?


Yea, I noticed that too, but on the back of my box its also says BT version 5.0 next to specifications.


----------



## webvan

howdy said:


> I actually never tried the tips that came with mine(they are still actually in the paper they came in) I put Spinfits on right away. They are so small and comfortable, I have big ears, you can barely tell I have them in when looking directly at me. I actually listening to them now.
> 
> As for their website, they just reintroduced the M2s again, meaning you can buy them again. Anyone looking for a really small TW better grab these before they sell out again.



Hum, so I pulled out the Tiso i5s again and put the CP360's L on with their recessed "nozzle" but they pop out. So I went to the trusty L's of the Jabra Elite Sport and the fit is pretty good. They are indeed very light and I can feel them less than the T5s. Not the same SQ though. I'll wear them around a bit to see how that form factor works.


----------



## Minarets

d3myz said:


> Yea, I noticed that too, but on the back of my box its also says BT version 5.0 next to specifications.


The back of the box of my kids says 5.0


----------



## howdy (Nov 8, 2019)

webvan said:


> Hum, so I pulled out the Tiso i5s again and put the CP360's L on with their recessed "nozzle" but they pop out. So I went to the trusty L's of the Jabra Elite Sport and the fit is pretty good. They are indeed very light and I can feel them less than the T5s. Not the same SQ though. I'll wear them around a bit to see how that form factor works.


Here is a pic of the Spinfits on my Earin M2s they are the CP-145.
Edit: I forgot to mention that they never pop off ever, really tight fit.


----------



## Bartig

d3myz said:


> Bassfest In a cave.


Haha, yeah.


----------



## webvan

@howdy Thanks for the picture, don't have the CP145 in my stable yet!


----------



## AtariPrime

howdy said:


> That's awesome!
> I'm glad they are still showing some interest in this market, they have been out of stock for 5 months at least. My M2s are definitely one pair I would never sell. I hope there is a M3 as I would absolutely buy one.



Agreed.  Their seeming lack of interest in actually selling products does make me nervous.  But, they did go through that whole acquistion recently that fell apart at the last minute.  It is possible that caused them to have to regroup and decide what they wanted to do with the company.  I would definitely be interested in an M3, but they have to get better at the selling part of this equation.


----------



## WesennTony

howdy said:


> Here is a pic of the Spinfits on my Earin M2s they are the CP-145.
> Edit: I forgot to mention that they never pop off ever, really tight fit.


I tried CP360 as well and liked the match. Sadly I gave m2 to my wife since my LG V30 had the default AAC issue that caused the dropouts in M2. Now that V30 defaults to AptX, I regretted to give them away. Sigh. Hopefully there is still m3 coming. Funny thing that when I visited my parent company in Stockholm, my colleagues there never heard of earin, and I haven't noticed anybody wearing them on the streets.


----------



## hifi80sman

chinmie said:


> I saw another ANC TWS in Aliexpress. Looks interesting, they have video demo on how the ANC perform.
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000337162355.html
> 
> They say it also has APTX, but it uses Airoha chip..can anyone confirm that it's  true it really supports APTX?


Here's an article I found and it only references AAC.  If I had to bet, I don't think it does.  Just dubious claims, once again.  Just like Titanium drivers on other TWS that sound horrible...are they *really *Titanium?

https://www.marketwatch.com/press-r...-headsets-2019-09-18-718300?mod=mw_quote_news


----------



## jagar46

So I’ve had more time to test the liberty 2 pro’s, I worked outside with them on all day, I was dry stone walling so it’s pretty strenuous and you move a lot and these things never once felt uncomfortable or never felt like I needed to push them back in, didn’t have the wings on as they were causing pressure. As far as sound goes I’m really impressed at how something so small and Bluetooth can give such decent sound, the future of this kind of device is guaranteed. The only problem is i now wouldn’t mind trying some others to see how they sound and feel, I’ve recently just purchased the Dali on ears, the px7 for my wife and these, so this desire is not a good thing at all. 
The only thing I don’t like about these is the look, looks like I’ve got two shiny beetles hanging out of my ears.


----------



## howdy

WesennTony said:


> I tried CP360 as well and liked the match. Sadly I gave m2 to my wife since my LG V30 had the default AAC issue that caused the dropouts in M2. Now that V30 defaults to AptX, I regretted to give them away. Sigh. Hopefully there is still m3 coming. Funny thing that when I visited my parent company in Stockholm, my colleagues there never heard of earin, and I haven't noticed anybody wearing them on the streets.


My Google Pixel 3 always seems to default to AAC which is fine. I can always go in to delopers options to change it but I generally just stick with the default.


----------



## hifi80sman

d3myz said:


> Yea, I noticed that too, but on the back of my box its also says BT version 5.0 next to specifications.


Does the box also say Adamantium Drivers?


----------



## actorlife

Wanted to give some love to this wireless ranking thread. Posted my top 3 here:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/rank-the-true-wireless-iems-youve-heard.910785/


----------



## AudioNoob (Nov 8, 2019)

How does the elite 65t compare to all these sub $75 options like ssk, m50, tevi etc? There is also some weird durability reports. Oh hell, this market is so over dumped, just look at soundpeats, they release an 'upgrade' every week with no modeling schema to follow


----------



## LordToneeus

AudioNoob said:


> How does the elite 65t compare to all these sub $75 options like ssk, m50, tevi etc? There is also some weird durability reports. Oh hell, this market is so over dumped, just look at soundpeats, they release an 'upgrade' every week with no modeling schema to follow



I really enjoyed my Elite 65t's when I first got them - they stay put, ambient mode, app - but they don't sound nearly as good as my MPOW T5's or my much beloved Astrotec S80 (which have become my daily driver).  

I love the look of the new 75t's, but for all the improvements over the previous generation, I read that sound quality wasn't among them.  The 65t's aren't bad by any stretch, but the aforementioned chi-fi sound better.


----------



## webvan

Rtings review of the APPs is out https://www.rtings.com/headphones/reviews/apple/airpods-pro-truly-wireless
Not much to take away TBH, well at leat they managed to get a good seal this time, unlike with the WF-1000mx3s


----------



## go0gle (Nov 8, 2019)

jagar46 said:


> So I’ve had more time to test the liberty 2 pro’s, I worked outside with them on all day, I was dry stone walling so it’s pretty strenuous and you move a lot and these things never once felt uncomfortable or never felt like I needed to push them back in, didn’t have the wings on as they were causing pressure. As far as sound goes I’m really impressed at how something so small and Bluetooth can give such decent sound, the future of this kind of device is guaranteed. The only problem is i now wouldn’t mind trying some others to see how they sound and feel, I’ve recently just purchased the Dali on ears, the px7 for my wife and these, so this desire is not a good thing at all.
> The only thing I don’t like about these is the look, looks like I’ve got two shiny beetles hanging out of my ears.



They do stick out unfortunately. On my ear they look like an old school Bluetooth earpiece lol .. But yes, I have similar experience with the comfort and fit. I had them in for ~5 hours straight a few days back while working and there was zero fatigue. Amazing really.. With the wings on.

They stay put during jump rope, will go for a run and see.

This means nothing tho , I am sure some people get a horrible fit


----------



## hifi80sman

LordToneeus said:


> I really enjoyed my Elite 65t's when I first got them - they stay put, ambient mode, app - but they don't sound nearly as good as my MPOW T5's or my much beloved Astrotec S80 (which have become my daily driver).
> 
> I love the look of the new 75t's, but for all the improvements over the previous generation, I read that sound quality wasn't among them.  The 65t's aren't bad by any stretch, but the aforementioned chi-fi sound better.


It looks like BestBuy has the all Black 75t available today in many locations.  The look damn fine!  Tempted, even though I know the sound is likely the same as the 65t (good, not great...socks, still on).
https://www.bestbuy.com/site/jabra-...-ear-headphones-black/6376030.p?skuId=6376030


----------



## go0gle

I think I found a bug with the lp2 app on iOS .. Seems like the EQ settings get reset after you disconnect and reconnect again, so you have to go into the app and do it again :/


----------



## bobeau (Nov 8, 2019)

webvan said:


> Rtings review of the APPs is out https://www.rtings.com/headphones/reviews/apple/airpods-pro-truly-wireless
> Not much to take away TBH, well at leat they managed to get a good seal this time, unlike with the WF-1000mx3s



@SilverEars I see that comparing this review vs. what we heard against the XM3s is pretty much on point

- more evenhanded, less wooly bass (XM3 notably thick in the upper bass, possible rest due to lack of seal under test)
- lower distortion
- more even treble


----------



## BigZ12

2 annoying faults with my Airpods Pro:
1. "Hey Siri" doesn't work with mic. setting set to automatic or right. Have to set it manually to left to get Hey Siri to work.
2. When ANC is on, I get distortion in the left bud when I'm on the phone. Guess it's some feedback of my voice? And I guess it's on the left because I've manually set the mic to left to get the "Hey Siri" working?

I use an iPhone X with iOS 13.2.2, and the APP have the latest firmware.

Any others with similar experiences?


----------



## Minarets

BigZ12 said:


> 2 annoying faults with my Airpods Pro:
> 1. "Hey Siri" doesn't work with mic. setting set to automatic or right. Have to set it manually to left to get Hey Siri to work.
> 2. When ANC is on, I get distortion in the left bud when I'm on the phone. Guess it's some feedback of my voice? And I guess it's on the left because I've manually set the mic to left to get the "Hey Siri" working?
> 
> ...



I would exchange them.  Absolutely no hissing from ANC here. It really is done flawlessly.   In an extremely quiet environment, the only way I can tell what is on (meaning the mode) and what is not is how it sounds inner ear, if that makes sense? Not what the headphone is putting out but that sound or lack of coming in to the headphone. 
And hey Siri works on either ear for me.  I just tried as i had it set for right only but just tried the left.


----------



## BigZ12 (Nov 8, 2019)

Minarets said:


> I would exchange them.  Absolutely no hissing from ANC here. It really is done flawlessly.   In an extremely quiet environment, the only way I can tell what is on (meaning the mode) and what is not is how it sounds inner ear, if that makes sense? Not what the headphone is putting out but that sound or lack of coming in to the headphone.
> And hey Siri works on either ear for me.  I just tried as i had it set for right only but just tried the left.


There's no hiss.

When manually choosing the left mic in bluetooth settings, I get some occasional distortions in the left bud when I talk on the phone, with ANC on.
First I thought it was the silicone tip that made the sound because the mouth moves when talking, but it's not that. Completely quiet when ANC is off.

If I change it to the right mic in the settings, "Hey Siri" never works but the "distortions" in the left ear are not there either. (BTW, I tested the right mic when calling a friend just now, and it works flawlessly with phone calls.)


----------



## rhsauer

I thought a few of you would enjoy this article from the Verge, dated yesterday:

https://www.theverge.com/2019/11/7/20943377/chinese-hi-fi-audio-chifi-fiio-hifiman-tin-audio

Apologies if this has been linked before.


----------



## jant71

Wrong thread man


----------



## CocaCola15

jagar46 said:


> So I’ve had more time to test the liberty 2 pro’s, I worked outside with them on all day, I was dry stone walling so it’s pretty strenuous and you move a lot and these things never once felt uncomfortable or never felt like I needed to push them back in, didn’t have the wings on as they were causing pressure. As far as sound goes I’m really impressed at how something so small and Bluetooth can give such decent sound, the future of this kind of device is guaranteed. The only problem is i now wouldn’t mind trying some others to see how they sound and feel, I’ve recently just purchased the Dali on ears, the px7 for my wife and these, so this desire is not a good thing at all.
> The only thing I don’t like about these is the look, looks like I’ve got two shiny beetles hanging out of my ears.


I had mine in today for a walk through the city and I am not sure why people need NC. I took the subway and sure, not the Sony WH1000XM3, but but could hear the music fine. On the street? Perfectly fine re isolation. And yes, they look like shiny beetles, but after owning a bunch of TW phones, including the Senns and the Sony WF1000XM3, and I think they are, as they say in the sports world, pound for pound the best value. I really think they shine with those bulby Comply foam tops (T200? Not sure). Loving these phones. I do like the Cambridge Audio Melomania too, but their comfort level diminishes after about an hour or so in the ears.


----------



## go0gle

They must isolate better with the foam as well... Those complys are pricy tho!


----------



## d3myz

Says Unobtainium, hmm.. what's that?


----------



## cwill (Nov 8, 2019)

Alright guys...so I got the SSK today. I already had the Kissral R18 and thought these would be the same. Not. At. All. I already knew the Kissral was light on bass, but I didn't realize how much they were lacking (they really are). The SSK has TWICE the amount of bass. Night and day difference. I won't be using the Kissral anymore. Heads up for anyone considering either of these.


----------



## sanity8me (Nov 8, 2019)

New YouTube review of the mw07 plus...

- he said to steer away from these for phone calls  (sucks if true cause I plan to use them for work calls)
- he said there's sibilance and the highs aren't pleasing
- he said they're overall very analytical (not my preference if true)
- also that Airpods Pro have a better sound signature

Anyone relate to what he's saying? Very different feedback than from the impressions and reviews I read.


----------



## gibletzor

cwill said:


> Alright guys...so I got the SSK today. I already had the Kissral R18 and thought these would be the same. Not. At. All. I already knew the Kissral was light on bass, but I didn't realize how much they were lacking (they really are). The SSK has TWICE the amount of bass. Night and day difference. I won't be using the Kissral anymore. Heads up for anyone considering either of these.



What tips are you using with the Kissral?  Mine don't lack on bass at all.  It's not rumbling, but it's got plenty of punch!  I'm using medium Auvios, but Spiral Dots work well too!


----------



## clerkpalmer

sanity8me said:


> New YouTube review of the mw07 plus...
> 
> - he said to steer away from these for phone calls  (sucks if true cause I plan to use them for work calls)
> - he said there's sibilance and the highs aren't pleasing
> ...



While sound is certainly subjective, I cannot fathom that many people share this opinion.  I spent some time with my mw07 go tonight and they simply destroy the air pods for sq. I could understand that some might find the highs sizzle a bit i suppose but it doesn't bother my damaged ears.


----------



## srinivasvignesh

sanity8me said:


> New YouTube review of the mw07 plus...
> 
> - he said to steer away from these for phone calls  (sucks if true cause I plan to use them for work calls)
> - he said there's sibilance and the highs aren't pleasing
> ...





I am responding this post without watching the video, but my impressions are quite the opposite.

- Excellent for calls (probably the best experience in true wireless, ever for me). For e.g, I was having calls on the crazy India roads with very high background levels of noise, and everyone said I sounded very very clear with no distractions at all. I have taken calls from home, the road, the mall and everywhere the mic has performed superbly for me.
- I hear no sibilance at all, absolutely. 
- I do not think these are in anyway analytical. Of course, certainly not for bassheads, but this is still kind of a fun sound. 
- Maybe he just prefers a different sound signature.


----------



## cwill

gibletzor said:


> What tips are you using with the Kissral?  Mine don't lack on bass at all.  It's not rumbling, but it's got plenty of punch!  I'm using medium Auvios, but Spiral Dots work well too!


I've tried them all. Mandarins, Spinfits, Comply, and all my regular silicone. The only way I get decent bass is with the Radio Shack tips (which don't fit in the case).


----------



## gibletzor

cwill said:


> I've tried them all. Mandarins, Spinfits, Comply, and all my regular silicone. The only way I get decent bass is with the Radio Shack tips (which don't fit in the case).


I'm using the Auvio's from Radio Shack and they fit in the case just fine.  Maybe the L ones might not, but the M ones do.


----------



## cwill

gibletzor said:


> I'm using the Auvio's from Radio Shack and they fit in the case just fine.  Maybe the L ones might not, but the M ones do.


I use the smalls and they won't charge in the case with them on.


----------



## georgelai57

I got the SSKs yesterday. No comment on the sound but the bright charging lights around the USB-C input are ridiculously bright. Bear Grylls would have this in his survival pack.


----------



## CocaCola15

go0gle said:


> They must isolate better with the foam as well... Those complys are pricy tho!


No doubt. I have a bunch of Comply tips in my mega-tip collection. They add up after 13-14 years of buying and trying in-ear phones, haha.


----------



## AudioNoob

Did anybody get a chance to try soundpeats true capsules / truedot? Taotronics soundliberty 53 also look interesting, you just cant tell because of all the fake reviews


----------



## tma6 (Nov 9, 2019)

Okay everyone, here's my Airpods Pro Review after about a week of use (sorry for the crazy long review but I had a lot to say lol):

Going to go through everything in full, but wanted to start by saying that this was definitely a particularly interesting product to review. I do want to credit Apple for making a much improved product from their previous Airpods (which I really disliked), but then again those came out 3 years ago and as such a part of me was hoping for something that was significantly better, especially when you factor in the $250 price point. The one thing I can say is that these are probably going to work for a lot of people and I have to say that there are certain things about them that I absolutely love. On the other hand, in terms of pure sound quality, Apple has done some really weird and arguably cool things that make the Airpods Pro almost trick you into thinking you're listening to something that is better than what it actually is. Anyway, sorry for the tangent, let me begin:

Sound Quality: The sound signature of the Airpods Pro is best described as coherent. All the frequencies  fit together very well, with a slight emphasis on bass and mids. What this does is that when you're just walking around listening to them without paying too much attention, or playing music while reading something, working, or while at the gym, it allows music to sit pleasantly and almost comfortingly in the background of your life. As I will get into, however, upon closer listen there are some issues that reveal themselves which prevent the Airpods Pro from achieving that true hi-fi sound quality that many on this thread (myself included) crave in our portable audio.

Bass: The bass on the Airpods Pro is actually not bad at all. It's not super powerful, but extends very low with a bit of roll off that only occurs near the absolute bottom of the frequency range. The low-bass is also not too sloppy, has very little distortion, and is on the tighter side of things, though it sometimes lacks that "epic" feel - it does not always provide that enveloping experience that some TWS like the E12 Ultra, MW07+, Sennheiser MTW, and even MPOW T5 can provide. The mid-bass is solid though in my opinion and adds a nice, non-offensive punch that some TWS like the Tevis can lack. One excellent feature of the bass here is that they never bleed into the other frequency ranges. On the other hand, there's a weirdness here that pops up if you listen for it. There's a bit of a lack of consistency in the tonal quality of the bass as it descends from the mid-bass range into the lower-bass region. It kind of loses it's attack the deeper it goes. While not a big deal and not something you'll normally notice, it adds to that sense of strangeness that exists in the sound quality on the Airpods Pro. All in all though, bass is not bad and can definitely be improved with a slight bass-preference EQ (if you're like me and enjoy some extra warmth).

Mids: Mids on the Airpods Pro are by far its best frequency range. Let me start with vocals, which are pushed a little forward and have excellent detail and tonality. Kind of weird, but when I was listening to them for the first day or two, some higher vocal ranges had a bit of an offensive, almost compressed sounding edge to them. However, for some reason (I hesitate to say burn in?), on my third day of listening, this vocal quality had completely disappeared and vocals ended up sounding great, with some nice body and warmth to lower vocals and great clarity on higher vocals (also rappers sound great). Further, and I do have to praise Apple for this, mid-range instruments have a great timbre, which is not always easy for TWS to pull off. Horn sections, pianos, guitars, etc., all sounded natural and pretty realistic (though not quite at the level of a good set of wired IEMs). There was even some good detail on the pull of a guitar string or the attack of a cello bow. Not much to complain about here, and if you're a mid-head these should actually satisfy you to a certain extent.

Highs: This is where things got weird. Apple has done something in the highs that sort of creates the illusion of good detail retrieval, but upon closer listen there are definitely some issues. What they've done is make highs that are sometimes hidden in the background of certain tracks on some headphones or IEMs "audible" without paying much attention to their actual quality. This works for certain things, but not others. The perfect example of this is with cymbals, particularly loose cymbals. Instead of making a nice crisp "tss" sound, on certain tracks the Airpods Pro make more of a "sshh" sound. While this occurs on other TWS and doesn't always sound that bad, on the Airpods it can sound a little grainy because the actual detail of the cymbal hit is not really there. I don't want to get too into the weeds, but this happens with a few other sounds in the high-frequency range and can make some tracks feel weird or kind of artificial sounding. It's not always there and seems to depend a lot on how the track is produced. The thing is though that if you just have music on in the background and are not closely listening, it feels like the Airpods Pro have a good amount of high-end detail because you can at least hear everything. This is a bit of a trick of the mind that almost works, and it might actually work for some people depending on your use case. One last thing I'll say on the highs is that some in the upper register can be pushed further back in the mix than they are on other TWS sets, whereas some mid-highs are pushed more forward and come off a little bright though never harsh. At the end of the day though, the highs provide an overall impression of clarity though lag behind a bit in actual quality.

Soundstage/Imaging: As is true for most TWS, the soundstage on the Airpods Pro is not wide at all. At the same time though, the imaging is definitely above-average. While I wouldn't call the imaging pinpoint accurate, it definitely does a good job of placing instruments in different locations within the mix, providing a good sense of separation. Also, even though they lack width, there's some height to the sound, with certain instruments feeling like they are above other instruments. Not a bad job, but not great if you like a wide soundstage. When things get busy they can sometimes sound a little closed in.

Overall, regarding the sound I'd say this: If you really like mids then you'll really like these, and the bass on most tracks ranges from above-average to solid despite lack of consistency in the deep bass region. If you need accuracy and precision in your highs though, I would consider looking elsewhere. You'll hear the highs, but if you listen closely you might not like what you hear.

Look/Fit: Now I was never a huge fan of how the Airpods looked even when compared to other TWS on the market. These look a bit better in the ear due to the smaller stem, and obviously you get way cooler as a person when you walk around outside with them. Huge personality boost lol. Fit is absolutely fantastic for me. I got small ears and these just feel great, they never fell out even while playing basketball, and I could wear them for a really long time without discomfort. Love how they just sit nicely in the ear without putting pressure anywhere.

Extra Features: Okay I think we need to take a step back just for a second and realize how dope technology is now. We're all like jaded already by ANC on earbuds, but seriously this is an incredible thing that companies are managing to pull off on such tiny pieces of hardware. And on the Airpods Pro, the ANC is absolutely no gimmick. It's definitely superior to the MW07+ and maybe slightly less strong than the Sony's, but it's definitely close to the best on the market particularly when considering how small and light these things are. Continuous noises such as subway rumble, bus noise, and passing traffic are close to eliminated, and they do a much better job than the MW07+ at drowning out people talking around you, particularly when you are in a busy area and the talking becomes a continuous bustle. This is a killer feature and has allowed me to play my music and podcasts at lower volumes than I normally do, and work great when paired with phone calls. Now to the transparency mode. I never used to care or even think about transparency mode before. With other TWS, I would just take out an earpod if I needed to talk with someone and this did not seem like a hassle at all. Here though, with how easy it is to activate, I find myself using it all the time and it's by far the best I've heard. It allows you basically to interact with and hear everything around you as if you weren't wearing earbuds, but also have something going on in the background, though you do have to reduce the volume a bit to achieve this effect. I've actually grown to enjoy this feature quite a bit. Also the squeeze controls are really intuitive once you get used to them. Lack of volume control is a miss here, but I have no shame so I just use always-on Siri, which also works quickly and seamlessly on iOS.

Battery: Battery life is solid, though nothing special. I got around 5.5 hours with ANC on. The great thing about them though is that the case has some of the fastest charging I've experienced on TWS. You literally pop them in for around 5 minutes and they go from dead to like 30% (which is around 1.5 hours of use). Definitely sufficient for my use.

Case: One of the best cases on any TWS hands down for me. I love the size. I honestly don't know what I'm going to do when I use other earbuds with a case that doesn't fit into the small pocket within my jeans pocket. It's just so damn convenient. Also, it feels quite durable and is very smudge and scratch resistant. I've already dropped it a few times and it doesn't show a scratch. The one sometimes annoying thing about it is that it's quite slippery in the hands, so drops are happening more than with other TWS I have, and the case just pops open and the earbuds fly out when you drop them, so seems like a bit of a recipe for losing your earphones very easily if dropped on the street. Gotta be very careful with these.

Microphone/Calls: Calls on your end are great particularly with noise cancelling on. Calls on the other end also seem great, and I've gotten zero complaints walking around NYC even when it gets noisy. Great mic quality. Probably among the best out there.

Connectivity: Zero connectivity issues with my iPhone. Did not try with Android. A couple weird hiccups when connecting with my Windows laptop so I do think it prefers iOS devices. Still, it switches back and forth from my phone to laptop quite easily. Also the actual bluetooth transmission quality with respect to the music does seem better on these than the MW07+, though not totally easy to tell. It really does suck that the MW07+ don't have AAC. Just as a business decision, I really don't get how M&D could release a premium product that doesn't work as best as it possibly could with with Apple products. I'm not going to harp to much on that though bc the MW07+ still sound way better than the Airpod Pros.

Conclusion: While I will say that I wanted more out of the sound quality (perhaps even much more given the price), I'm also definitely keeping these. Though they won't be my only pair of TWS, I know for a fact that I'll be able to find use cases for them in my everyday life. If you're just going to buy one pair of TWS and you want the best sound quality that money can buy, these are not for you. However, two of the main benefits of TWS are convenience and comfort, and the Airpods Pro are the absolute best in those two categories. It's feature set is also near the top, and in my opinion works the best considering how small these things are. Meanwhile, sound quality is decent, though not spectacular, and benefits from some slight bass-favor EQ. Overall, if you really like mid-range focused IEMs and want a TWS that delivers that signature in a super convenient and well-featured package then these are definitely for you.


----------



## tma6 (Nov 9, 2019)

sanity8me said:


>






clerkpalmer said:


> While sound is certainly subjective, I cannot fathom that many people share this opinion.  I spent some time with my mw07 go tonight and they simply destroy the air pods for sq. I could understand that some might find the highs sizzle a bit i suppose but it doesn't bother my damaged ears.



Yeah this is just a weird review and I disagree with most of it. The sound on these is fantastic, definitely would not describe it as analytical. If anything they are warm and have great dynamic range for TWS, allowing for great emotional depth. I also found them absolutely excellent for phone calls.


----------



## clerkpalmer

tma6 said:


> Okay everyone, here's my Airpods Pro Review after about a week of use (sorry for the crazy long review but I had a lot to say lol):
> 
> Going to go through everything in full, but wanted to start by saying that this was definitely a particularly interesting product to review. I do want to credit Apple for making a much improved product from their previous Airpods (which I really disliked), but then again those came out 3 years ago and as such a part of me was hoping for something that was significantly better, especially when you factor in the $250 price point. The one thing I can say is that these are probably going to work for a lot of people and I have to say that there are certain things about them that I absolutely love. On the other hand, in terms of pure sound quality, Apple has done some really weird and arguably cool things that make the Airpods Pro almost trick you into thinking you're listening to something that is better than what it actually is. Anyway, sorry for the tangent, let me begin:
> 
> ...



Nice review. I'm pretty torn on the APP but at the end of the day, the sq needs to shine particularly at 250 and it just falls flat for me. Anker, give me the liberty2 pro with ANC and you will have an absolute home run.


----------



## Silentism

WesennTony said:


> Out of curiosity I bought JVC spiral dots++ and put them on Nuarl nt01ax the other day. Man what a difference! The original spiral dots give a darker and richer sound with slight bass boost, whereas dots++ clear the mids and make the sound more fluid. A perfect match to nt01ax for my ears! They're expensive (~$36 for two pairs) but totally worth it.
> 
> Also I found that after my LG V30 updates to Android Pie, all my TWS default to Aptx instead of AAC as before. That's a great relief and I'm happy for a V50 upgrade.



How'd you feel about the sizing compared to the ear tips your nuarls came with? I liked how the S\M spinfits fit, and also the small some tips, but I have to use the medium domes for a good sound. They're a tiny bit too large where they're not that secure if I look down with them on.


----------



## d3myz

clerkpalmer said:


> Nice review. I'm pretty torn on the APP but at the end of the day, the sq needs to shine particularly at 250 and it just falls flat for me. Anker, give me the liberty2 pro with ANC and you will have an absolute home run.


Amen to that! And the battery life on the L2pros is outstanding.


----------



## d3myz

Anyone else compared the old and new versions of the L2pro? I have to say after a full day with the new version they sound much better than the previous one. If you’re wondering if you have the old or new version. The most current firmware of the new version is 1.09 while the old version is 1.15. I especially noticed the difference in the sound when using the signature eq setting. I could never use it with the old version because it was so bassy, but in the new model it sounds fantastic.


----------



## Deveraux

BigZ12 said:


> I just got the Tronsmart Spunky Beats.
> It's a bit bassy, otherwise sound is ok for the price tag. Fit is awesome with Spinfit CP360. So snug the don't stick out at all (in my ears)
> 
> But before I care to talk more about sound, I have to say the touch controls are not so good. So easy to touch and make the wrong command.
> ...



I'm thinking of getting those for 20$. How is the sound, mic and latency? I'm contemplating between that and Airdots (which is half the price).


----------



## dweaver

If they changed the gain on the L2P that would affect a lot more than just hiss. I find anything with to much gain sounds off especially in the extremes, bass and treble alike. Might explain the to much bass  reported by some and to much treble by others. If they only had some get with a faulty gain setting it would explain a lot.


----------



## Putshoesonthatmonster

https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B07WJRW2FB?th=1&psc=1

Anyone UK based who are after the mpow M5/t5, they are currently £26.99


----------



## paddyberger

My wife put mine through the wash and the right bud is faulty, so ordered another pair for 29.99 yesterday.  Then the dog chewed the case on my new ones. Coupled with UPS damaging my LP2 in transit and then being out of stock on Amazon, I’ve not had much luck lately!

I’ve also ordered the LP2 from Ali as well. Got them for GBP 107, thought I’d try and miss the 11/11 delays for the sake of a few pounds.


----------



## BigZ12

Deveraux said:


> I'm thinking of getting those for 20$. How is the sound, mic and latency? I'm contemplating between that and Airdots (which is half the price).


I'm sorry, but I put them in my drawer, and there they will stay until I find someone who wants them. Guess I will give them away to a friend/family member.
I didn't like the touch controls. I found out that my version shall have "next track" on left bud, so at least it wasn't anything wrong with that.


----------



## BigZ12 (Nov 9, 2019)

BigZ12 said:


> 2 annoying faults with my Airpods Pro:
> 1. "Hey Siri" doesn't work with mic. setting set to automatic or right. Have to set it manually to left to get Hey Siri to work.
> 2. When ANC is on, I get distortion in the left bud when I'm on the phone. Guess it's some feedback of my voice? And I guess it's on the left because I've manually set the mic to left to get the "Hey Siri" working?
> I use an iPhone X with iOS 13.2.2, and the APP have the latest firmware.
> Any others with similar experiences?


Sooo, I have played with the APPs a little more, and I found out that Apple must think that everybody have a fit like this:



Because if you get a good fit like this, (it's even a little bit "snugger" in my ears)

you have to sit still when listening to music with ANC on... It's the same with phone calls.
With the ANC on, and with the APPs snugly fit, the sound changes when moving/walking/moving the mouth etc.
It's so annoying. When moving, the treble sounds like a MP3 file with 56kbps quality (if you know what I mean, it kind of "fluctuates" (can't explain it better))
This was also what was causing the distortion when I am on the phone too.
I guess it's the ANC mic(s) that touch the skin/ear in some way, making the sound change/distortion with phone calls?
ANC off removes all these problems.


----------



## SilverEars (Nov 9, 2019)

BigZ12 said:


> Sooo, I have played with the APPs a little more, and I found out that Apple must think that everybody have a fit like this:
> 
> 
> Because if you get a good fit like this, (it's even a little bit "snugger" in my ears)
> ...


Does the Airpods shift due to loose fit?  If so, it could be the Adaptive EQ changing the response as your fit keeps changing.  My fit is almost like yours (not as further out), but the Airpods are pretty snug in my ear, and doesn't shift.  Although the bottom image looks like a better fit, I prefer the stem a bit distanced from the face so that I can easily grab it for the button squeeze.

I've been having issues with APP mic call quality.  I've been getting complaints from others about my voice quality that they can't make out what I'm saying.  What's weird is that reviews generally praise Airpods for call quality.  I use an Android device, so maybe the issue.

These directional mics on TW suck.  In-line wired mics distanced near the mouth perform much better.


----------



## BigZ12

SilverEars said:


> Does the Airpods shift due to loose fit?  If so, it could be the Adaptive EQ changing the response as your fit keeps changing.  My fit is almost like yours (not as further out), but the Airpods are pretty snug in my ear, and doesn't shift.  Although the bottom image looks like a better fit, I prefer the stem a bit distanced from the face so that I can easily grab it for the button squeeze.
> 
> I've been having issues with APP mic call quality.  I've been getting complaints from others about my voice quality that they can't make out what I'm saying.  What's weird is that reviews generally praise Airpods for call quality.  I use an Android device, so maybe the issue.


My fit is similar to the 2nd picture. The stem almost touch the chin. Very snug and good fit with no movement. I still get changes in sound when moving the mouth, or when walking. (with ANC on)
I haven't tried phone calls outdoor in a noisy enviroment yet, but my friends say the sound of the mic is very good when I called them from indoors. I have an iPhone X.


----------



## webvan (Nov 10, 2019)

So my Echo Buds arrived and hum...I'm surprised, well disappointed actually, let's see :
- fit is good, I like bigger earbuds that can "sit" in the ear (like the 65Ts, Havit G1s) and have several contact points to prevent them from moving around and losing the seal (like the Anbes 359). The largest tips are too small though but thanks to @rhsauer's feedback I grabbed the L Jabra Elite Sport tips and that takes care of the problem
EDIT - After struggling to understand why I was getting such poor audio I went back to the stock tips, pushed them in harder/deeper and the difference is tremendous ! Odd since the seal was good with the Jabras...)
- pairing with the app is ok and it's nice to have Alexa handy on top of Google Assistant, no button to press and you can ask for volume up/down
- the sound, well it's "thin", out of the box, it's very thin and "shrill", these are my first BA only earbuds (my TRN V80 have BA+DD) and I'm not used to that. By pushing up the bass in the EQ and playing with the mids I managed to get something a little bit more pleasing but, well I need to get used to it . Out of the box they are worlds away from say the APPs or the XM3s or the T5s in terms of offering a "pleasing" sound....it's a lot better with the stock tips and some "deep insertion", see above. Going to be listening a bit more before passing judgement again 
- The ANR, wow, it's very, very mild, think Sony WF-1000x mild ! Based on the reviews saying it was a "smidge" below the APP's ANC I really wasn't expecting that. The choice of the ANR wording (and Bose claiming theirs would be a lot better in terms of ANC) makes sense now. I'm not sure what these "reviewers" are thinking though...It's not even like the passive isolation is that good either so overall the noise isolation is poor/s] with the stock tips the passive isolation is good so overall it's not bad, probably a bit better than what you get with a 65t or T5. When blasting YT "cabin noise" listening to music is NOT a great experience, it's miles away from what the Airpod Pros offer, which is way closer than what you get from a QC25/WH1000.
Yep, this is disappointing


----------



## gibletzor

webvan said:


> So my Echo Buds arrived and hum...I'm surprised, well disappointed actually, let's see :
> - fit is good, I like bigger earbuds that can "sit" in the ear (like the 65Ts, Havit G1s) and have several contact points to prevent them from moving around and losing the seal (like the Anbes 359). The largest tips are too small though but thanks to @rhsauer's feedback I grabbed the L Jabra Elite Sport tips and that takes care of the problem
> - pairing with the app is ok and it's nice to have Alexa handy on top of Google Assistant, no button to press and you can ask for volume up/down
> - the sound, well it's "thin", out of the box, it's very thin and "shrill", these are my first BA only earbuds (my TRN V80 have BA+DD) and I'm not used to that. By pushing up the bass in the EQ and playing with the mids I managed to get something a little bit more pleasing but, well I need to get used to it . Out of the box they are worlds away from say the APPs or the XM3s or the T5s in terms of offering a "pleasing" sound.
> ...


I'm curious what device you're playing music from?  Thin and shrill are not my experience at all with these.  Bass is comparable to my Mpow T5 with tips better than the stock ones in the box, and the mids and highs are great sounding.  Not saying I don't believe you, but just curious if it could be a difference in audio chipsets or just anatomical?


----------



## webvan

It's my trusty main Android, the Lenovo P2. I suppose I could try with my "spare" Android, the Nokia 8, but it's Bluetooth and not wired so there's no reason for it to be any different.

I find it hard to believe that you don't hear a difference between the unequalized Echo Buds and the T5, there's really no comparison for me, heck I even tried the same tips (Jabra Sport Elite silicone L) to double check. Where the T5s have this deep warm sound with plentiful sub bass, the Echo Buds have this thin airy "AM like" sound, "sharper" ("analytical" in propeller head linguo ?) I'll admit, but really not very enjoyable, with bass pushed to the max it helps, so let's see if I get used to it


----------



## SilverEars

gibletzor said:


> I'm curious what device you're playing music from?  Thin and shrill are not my experience at all with these.  Bass is comparable to my Mpow T5 with tips better than the stock ones in the box, and the mids and highs are great sounding.  Not saying I don't believe you, but just curious if it could be a difference in audio chipsets or just anatomical?


Do you guys notice different devices effects either the signature or SQ of the TW?  Like for example, iPhone vs Android phones with Airpods Pro.


----------



## Minarets

BigZ12 said:


> Sooo, I have played with the APPs a little more, and I found out that Apple must think that everybody have a fit like this:
> 
> 
> Because if you get a good fit like this, (it's even a little bit "snugger" in my ears)
> ...



hmm i haven’t experienced this yet buy i haven’t worked out in them yet as well. I guess I could get those issues when I run. I have a snug fit. Stem touches my cheek when put in where I prefer. I have noticed no issues with ANC on but makes me wonder.  Most of my listening has been at my desk so far.   I’m flying cross country Monday and will be using them walking thru the airport so I will get a better idea then.  Interesting.


----------



## SilverEars (Nov 9, 2019)

Minarets said:


> hmm i haven’t experienced this yet buy i haven’t worked out in them yet as well. I guess I could get those issues when I run. I have a snug fit. Stem touches my cheek when put in where I prefer. I have noticed no issues with ANC on but makes me wonder.  Most of my listening has been at my desk so far.   I’m flying cross country Monday and will be using them walking thru the airport so I will get a better idea then.  Interesting.


I don't have such issue when I'm jogging as it keeps in place pretty good, but it does shift slightly over time, and have to push it back into place.  Some of the noise in the high frequencies are not effectively isolated by seal or reduced by ANC, and most significant noise is from my body's conduction of noise to the ear from impact of the foot.


----------



## BigZ12

Minarets said:


> hmm i haven’t experienced this yet buy i haven’t worked out in them yet as well. I guess I could get those issues when I run. I have a snug fit. Stem touches my cheek when put in where I prefer. I have noticed no issues with ANC on but makes me wonder.  Most of my listening has been at my desk so far.   I’m flying cross country Monday and will be using them walking thru the airport so I will get a better idea then.  Interesting.


It's easy to test. Insert them, and put on some music. Then move /open your mouth, and feel free to exaggerate a bit with the movements.
Test with/without ANC.


----------



## vladzakhar

This is what i did to get better bass response on APPs. The foam from Mandarine tips fits nicely inside of the APP tip.


----------



## SilverEars

vladzakhar said:


> This is what i did to get better bass response on APPs. The foam from Mandarine tips fits nicely inside of the APP tip.


I wonder if there are any other way to get similar foam that fits inside besides resorting to Symbio?  I know those foam do contribute to the way bass responding in a harder hit or impact?  Is that what happens with the foam?


----------



## BigZ12

vladzakhar said:


> This is what i did to get better bass response on APPs. The foam from Mandarine tips fits nicely inside of the APP tip.


 
Tried it as well. Did just have a large Mandarine/Symbio I would sacrifce, so could maybe get a better fit with the filling of a medium. Not sure if it gave me any positives compared to just using the standard tip (without the filling)
The sound change with movement didn't change at all after the mod.. (as mentioned in my recent posts)


----------



## gibletzor

webvan said:


> It's my trusty main Android, the Lenovo P2. I suppose I could try with my "spare" Android, the Nokia 8, but it's Bluetooth and not wired so there's no reason for it to be any different.
> 
> I find it hard to believe that you don't hear a difference between the unequalized Echo Buds and the T5, there's really no comparison for me, heck I even tried the same tips (Jabra Sport Elite silicone L) to double check. Where the T5s have this deep warm sound with plentiful sub bass, the Echo Buds have this thin airy "AM like" sound, "sharper" ("analytical" in propeller head linguo ?) I'll admit, but really not very enjoyable, with bass pushed to the max it helps, so let's see if I get used to it


I haven't done any EQing on my Echo Buds.  Mine have plenty of bass thump and nice clear mids and highs.  I don't know what to tell you.  AM quality is pretty far from how mine sound.  I'm using a Galaxy S9+ btw.


----------



## muyah

cwill said:


> Anyone else notice the SSK box says V4.2 Bluetooth right under the number 5? So they're not BT 5?



I was wondering what the difference is between the bt03 and the bt08 (black). On AliExpress it says the bt03 has v5 and the bt08 has v4.2, but when I asked the store they told me the following:

“Hi Dear, they are generally the same. But the design scheme is not. And BT08 has 380mAh charging bin design, up to 10 hours of continuous playback; while BT03 has 500mAh charging bin design, up to 18 hours of continuous playback”

So yeah it remains confusing. Can anyone else weigh in on the difference between the bt03 and bt08 and whether these things have v5 or not?


----------



## pokenguyen

tma6 said:


> Yeah this is just a weird review and I disagree with most of it. The sound on these is fantastic, definitely would not describe it as analytical. If anything they are warm and have great dynamic range for TWS, allowing for great emotional depth. I also found them absolutely excellent for phone calls.


I agreed, I need to EQ the Sony to a warmer sound to match MW07, these are no way analytical. No siblance either.


----------



## muyah

tma6 said:


> Bass: The bass on the Airpods Pro is actually not bad at all. It's not super powerful, but extends very low with a bit of roll off that only occurs near the absolute bottom of the frequency range. The low-bass is also not too sloppy, has very little distortion, and is on the tighter side of things, though it sometimes lacks that "epic" feel - it does not always provide that enveloping experience that some TWS like the E12 Ultra, MW07+, Sennheiser MTW, and even MPOW T5 can provide.



Since you’re apparently familiar with both the E12 Ultra and the T5, can I ask your opinion on how they compare? Others are welcome to weigh in as well of course.


----------



## rhsauer (Nov 9, 2019)

webvan said:


> So my Echo Buds arrived and hum...I'm surprised, well disappointed actually, let's see :
> - fit is good, I like bigger earbuds that can "sit" in the ear (like the 65Ts, Havit G1s) and have several contact points to prevent them from moving around and losing the seal (like the Anbes 359). The largest tips are too small though but thanks to @rhsauer's feedback I grabbed the L Jabra Elite Sport tips and that takes care of the problem
> - pairing with the app is ok and it's nice to have Alexa handy on top of Google Assistant, no button to press and you can ask for volume up/down
> - the sound, well it's "thin", out of the box, it's very thin and "shrill", these are my first BA only earbuds (my TRN V80 have BA+DD) and I'm not used to that. By pushing up the bass in the EQ and playing with the mids I managed to get something a little bit more pleasing but, well I need to get used to it . Out of the box they are worlds away from say the APPs or the XM3s or the T5s in terms of offering a "pleasing" sound.
> ...



If you think the sound is thin and the ANC is too mild, I'm wondering if you're actually getting a good seal (even though you're using the tips I recommended).  Did you run the ear tip test in the Alexa app?  I find the sound really nice with more than sufficient bass, and that the ANC is very helpful on the subway.  Here's another tip recommendation:  If you have the Soundcore Liberty 2  (or Liberty 2 Pros) try the largest tip with the red stem that comes with those headphones.  They actually fit in the case, and really seal (at least in my ears).  The Echo Buds definitely should have allowed more room for tips in the case -- not many tips fit in a way that allows the buds to charge, and the supplied tips are too small for many ears.


----------



## gibletzor

rhsauer said:


> If you think the sound is thin and the ANC is too mild, I'm wondering if you're actually getting a good seal (notwithstanding that you're using the tips I recommended).  Did you run the ear tip test to see?  I find the sound really nice with sufficient bass, and that the ANC is adequate for the subway.  Here's another tip recommendation:  if you have the Soundcore Liberty 2  (or Liberty 2 Pros) try the largest tip with the red stem that comes with those headphones.  They actually fit in the case, and really seal (at least in my ears).  The Echo Buds should have allowed more room for tips in the case -- not many tips fit in a way that allows the buds to charge.


I actually found a pair of standard "spherical" type tips that fit in the case.  I THINK they were the stock tips that came with my Tranya B530, but I'm not certain on that.  Much more comfortable than the more conical shaped tips the EBs shipped with.


----------



## cacio (Nov 9, 2019)

SilverEars said:


> Do you guys notice different devices effects either the signature or SQ of the TW?  Like for example, iPhone vs Android phones with Airpods Pro.


The only possible difference are the encoders. So apple has the best AAC encoder, but Android's solution might be 2nd place still. And "possibly" better encoders comparing very old and new Android devices.
Apart from that, as long the reception is good, there is no other variable which could make a difference


----------



## BigZ12

Look what I found!!


----------



## webvan

rhsauer said:


> If you think the sound is thin and the ANC is too mild, I'm wondering if you're actually getting a good seal (even though you're using the tips I recommended).  Did you run the ear tip test in the Alexa app?  I find the sound really nice with more than sufficient bass, and that the ANC is very helpful on the subway.  Here's another tip recommendation:  If you have the Soundcore Liberty 2  (or Liberty 2 Pros) try the largest tip with the red stem that comes with those headphones.  They actually fit in the case, and really seal (at least in my ears).  The Echo Buds definitely should have allowed more room for tips in the case -- not many tips fit in a way that allows the buds to charge, and the supplied tips are too small for many ears.



Thanks, I'm really "anal" about the seal with IEMs (drove me crazy with the Sony WF-1000xm3s !) so I'm pretty confident I'm getting a good seal (talking and feeling like your ears are plugged). The test confirmed that but I did go back to the stock tips and...there is a big difference, for the better ! They go deeper than the Jabras (not something I particularly like) and improve the sound considerably (I'll edit my initial comments). I don't think I've ever heard such a difference between tips (when you have a seal). Well I guess I'll take that ! The ANR is still very "mild" but with the better passive isolation the overall isolation is decent. I don't think there's anything wrong with the ANR on my buds because when I rode my bike there was a lot of wind being picked up by. I had to stop and turn off ANR in the app (no toggle for that unfortunately, maybe Alexa can handle that ?).


----------



## BigZ12

BigZ12 said:


> Look what I found!!


And as almost everything else, something is wrong. Won’t connect to the buds...***


----------



## clerkpalmer

Rtings tested the APP.  Among the highlights is that they concluded the ANC is better than Sony which is different from most observations here. 

Link here: https://www.rtings.com/headphones/reviews/apple/airpods-pro-truly-wireless

I am now wondering whether selling the PB pro and keeping the APP is the better move even though i dont love the sq


----------



## cleg

And yet another my video, now about TRN T200


----------



## tma6 (Nov 9, 2019)

clerkpalmer said:


> Rtings tested the APP.  Among the highlights is that they concluded the ANC is better than Sony which is different from most observations here.
> 
> Link here: https://www.rtings.com/headphones/reviews/apple/airpods-pro-truly-wireless
> 
> I am now wondering whether selling the PB pro and keeping the APP is the better move even though i dont love the sq




Yeah man I totally understand why you’re conflicted about this, and definitely don’t think that the APP are worth their money in sound quality. If it doesn’t sound good enough to you I’d stop listening to reviews about them and just use some that you actually enjoy listening to. For me, I think if I know that I want to listen to some hip-hop on the subway to get me hyped before a basketball game, or just want to listen to a podcast on the way to work, or I know I’m going to have to use them for calls on a particular day, and on none of these days I’m going to listen to some beautiful well produced instrumental tracks where I’m trying to really enjoy the music, the APP fit the bill. I just know I have use cases for them. But if you don’t then there’s no need to stress over them, particularly if you have other options that sound better. I’m definitely going to keep using my Tevis a lot (particularly now that the app is out!) and will continue to wait for a TWS to come out that’s the complete package, which I think we all are still waiting for.


----------



## tma6

muyah said:


> Since you’re apparently familiar with both the E12 Ultra and the T5, can I ask your opinion on how they compare? Others are welcome to weigh in as well of course.



Never got to try them side by side since I lost the case to my Mpows and ended up returning the E12. But from what I remember the bass and soundstage was great on both. Bass a bit more powerful on the E12 for some songs, but I do remember liking the actual tonal quality of the mids/highs on the mpows more. E12 sounded artificial to me at points. Also mpow are a little cheaper, so I’d go for them if you’re tryna decide based on pure sq.


----------



## hifi80sman

tma6 said:


> Okay everyone, here's my Airpods Pro Review after about a week of use (sorry for the crazy long review but I had a lot to say lol):
> 
> Going to go through everything in full, but wanted to start by saying that this was definitely a particularly interesting product to review. I do want to credit Apple for making a much improved product from their previous Airpods (which I really disliked), but then again those came out 3 years ago and as such a part of me was hoping for something that was significantly better, especially when you factor in the $250 price point. The one thing I can say is that these are probably going to work for a lot of people and I have to say that there are certain things about them that I absolutely love. On the other hand, in terms of pure sound quality, Apple has done some really weird and arguably cool things that make the Airpods Pro almost trick you into thinking you're listening to something that is better than what it actually is. Anyway, sorry for the tangent, let me begin:
> 
> ...


Great review.  They are a great "lifestyle" product, probably one of the best TWS for purely that.  Your impressions of the sound are very similar to mine; soft bass, scratchy highs/raspiness, forward mids.


----------



## BigZ12

BigZ12 said:


> Look what I found!!


FYI!
Talked to Lypertek now. 
Confirmed the app were put in early to Apple to make approval before release. This time Apple was quicker, and released the app in App Store before Lypertek was ready. 
There will be an announcement on their website when the app is ready for use.


----------



## Minarets

BigZ12 said:


> It's easy to test. Insert them, and put on some music. Then move /open your mouth, and feel free to exaggerate a bit with the movements.
> Test with/without ANC.


Did this and hear no change.


----------



## BigZ12

Minarets said:


> Did this and hear no change.


Thanks for testing. You were certain that ANC were enabled I guess. 
Hmm, I have to test with different tips and placement again then. Maybe reset them again. 

Can I please bother you with another question (if you have an iPhone). Please set the mic to right only, and see if "Hey Siri" works. 
I can only get "Hey Siri" to work if I manually choose the left mic in bluetooth settings.


----------



## clerkpalmer

tma6 said:


> I’m definitely going to keep using my Tevis a lot (particularly now that the app is out!) and will continue to wait for a TWS to come out that’s the complete package, which I think we all are still waiting for.



It's too bad mw07 plus didn't go full ANC that would have been a home run. The 1more mentioned upthread looks compelling for 200. Hybrid design plus ANC. Hmmm.


----------



## tma6

clerkpalmer said:


> It's too bad mw07 plus didn't go full ANC that would have been a home run. The 1more mentioned upthread looks compelling for 200. Hybrid design plus ANC. Hmmm.



MW07+ are as close to perfect as they come rn. Tho I do think lack of AAC hurts them slightly and ANC is not great for sure. Absolutely looking at those 1mores!


----------



## Minarets

Give me a few and I’ll try.


----------



## rhsauer

webvan said:


> Thanks, I'm really "anal" about the seal with IEMs (drove me crazy with the Sony WF-1000xm3s !) so I'm pretty confident I'm getting a good seal (talking and feeling like your ears are plugged). The test confirmed that but I did go back to the stock tips and...there is a big difference, for the better ! They go deeper than the Jabras (not something I particularly like) and improve the sound considerably (I'll edit my initial comments). I don't think I've ever heard such a difference between tips (when you have a seal). Well I guess I'll take that ! The ANR is still very "mild" but with the better passive isolation the overall isolation is decent. I don't think there's anything wrong with the ANR on my buds because when I rode my bike there was a lot of wind being picked up by. I had to stop and turn off ANR in the app (no toggle for that unfortunately, maybe Alexa can handle that ?).



Interesting.  It shows how important the tips are to the equation -- and how tips that work well on one IEM may not work on another.  Hence, "tip rolling," I guess.


----------



## AudioNoob

Did anybody try the latest tronsmart spunky beat? I saw some online reviews noting qc issues. I suppose they are not an earphone company though they do well with batteries. One thing we are not talking about is the quality of the battery cells used in these earphones. Given the number of charging cycles, most will die within a couple years.


----------



## jasaero

cwill said:


> Alright guys...so I got the SSK today. I already had the Kissral R18 and thought these would be the same. Not. At. All. I already knew the Kissral was light on bass, but I didn't realize how much they were lacking (they really are). The SSK has TWICE the amount of bass. Night and day difference. I won't be using the Kissral anymore. Heads up for anyone considering either of these.



You EQed the R18 to try to match?  Or is it just unable to deliver and you think the SSK are somewhat flat and have more bass.  I find the SSK have an ever so slight bass boost and I can EQ it out and get really decent mostly flat response even.  Funny though if the cheaper ones just have more capable over all stuffs.  Wouldn't surprise me though, I am sure you can get this DOGO to hit all sorts of cost levels and it's totally possible to game the interest in this design at maximum profit...haha.  

Would be interesting if we tried to do a group buy straight from Dogo after a few samples of what they can sell.  They have the Qualcomm ones they are trying to hawk on Aliexpress now also that seem slightly improved.  There are some Alibaba vendors that don't seem to be Dogo themselves also though.  Think you need 500 takers for the smallest order though and not sure that is the listing from Dogo themselves?

I am pretty curious about these qualcomm versions though.


----------



## willyk

cleg said:


> And yet another my video, now about TRN T200




These are going on sale on Ali for $33, if anyone is interested.


----------



## geoxile (Nov 9, 2019)

sanity8me said:


> New YouTube review of the mw07 plus...
> 
> - he said to steer away from these for phone calls  (sucks if true cause I plan to use them for work calls)
> - he said there's sibilance and the highs aren't pleasing
> ...



Only tested it on a bluetooth mic recording app but it sounds fine for wireless earphones.

Sibilance is kind of true. It doesnt roll off any highs so things like the hiss of words ending in S sung by female artists, chimes, etc can be pronounced

Analytic, not sure but I wouldn't say so. It can be revealing due to the unfiltered highs but otherwise it seems to have a strong bass presence. Normally I would expect analytic to be close to flat.

I would say the highlighted points are somewhat true. I have yet to take them into the wild though, just got them a few hours ago and demoed for a bit at home. I think if you like female artists, especially very feminine sounding ones, you may notice the sibilance more.

By the way I wouldnt call it harsh at all. I think the hisses are acceptable for my rather pedestrian ears. And overall they sound great for my purposes. I just kind of understand why someone might say they're sibilant. Perhaps it could be called an actual V-shape and not just bass pronounced like most people call v-shaped


----------



## Minarets

BigZ12 said:


> Thanks for testing. You were certain that ANC were enabled I guess.
> Hmm, I have to test with different tips and placement again then. Maybe reset them again.
> 
> Can I please bother you with another question (if you have an iPhone). Please set the mic to right only, and see if "Hey Siri" works.
> I can only get "Hey Siri" to work if I manually choose the left mic in bluetooth settings.


 Not sure I understand.

left is set to noise control and right is Siri?  If so, Siri still works for me.


----------



## dweaver (Nov 9, 2019)

Anyone try both the Airpod Pro and the Liberty 2 Pro yet? Or L2P and WF-1000XM3?

I had a brief listen to the APP at the Apple store and was impressed by comfort, ANC, and ambient mode. The audio quality seemed a bit less than several products I own though.

So my questions are:

Does the APP or WF-1000XM3 have any wind issues with ANC or when talking on the phone?
Does the L2P have any wind issues when talking on the phone?
Over all which has the better microphone for talking?
How comfortable are the L2P as compared to the APP or WF-1000XM3?
Is the audio of the L2P better or worse than the APP or WF-1000XM3 and why?
Do any of these models suffer from footfall sounds when walking? Are any of them free from this noise?


----------



## Minarets

A runners perspective on APP


----------



## cwill (Nov 9, 2019)

jasaero said:


> You EQed the R18 to try to match?  Or is it just unable to deliver and you think the SSK are somewhat flat and have more bass.  I find the SSK have an ever so slight bass boost and I can EQ it out and get really decent mostly flat response even.  Funny though if the cheaper ones just have more capable over all stuffs.  Wouldn't surprise me though, I am sure you can get this DOGO to hit all sorts of cost levels and it's totally possible to game the interest in this design at maximum profit...haha.
> 
> Would be interesting if we tried to do a group buy straight from Dogo after a few samples of what they can sell.  They have the Qualcomm ones they are trying to hawk on Aliexpress now also that seem slightly improved.  There are some Alibaba vendors that don't seem to be Dogo themselves also though.  Think you need 500 takers for the smallest order though and not sure that is the listing from Dogo themselves?
> 
> I am pretty curious about these qualcomm versions though.


The R18 is very flat, and very clear. The lows never interfere with the higher frequencies. This can be a good thing with busy music, but isn't fun to listen to. As for EQ'ing them...my Spotify EQ does not allow anything to be turned up, only down. If I turn anything up like the bass it just lowers everything else. It doesn't turn the bass up. I don't really understand it.


----------



## sanity8me

geoxile said:


> Only tested it on a bluetooth mic recording app but it sounds fine for wireless earphones.
> 
> Sibilance is kind of true. It doesnt roll off any highs so things like the hiss of words ending in S sung by female artists, chimes, etc can be pronounced
> 
> ...



Thanks for chiming in, along with others who have. I think the reviewer just prefers a different type of signature - he probably prefers a much warmer and bassier type of sound which is very typical these days, especially with the current state of "pop" music. Pretty sure he mentioned he much prefers the Sennheiser Momentums...


----------



## sanity8me

tma6 said:


> Okay everyone, here's my Airpods Pro Review after about a week of use (sorry for the crazy long review but I had a lot to say lol):
> 
> Going to go through everything in full, but wanted to start by saying that this was definitely a particularly interesting product to review. I do want to credit Apple for making a much improved product from their previous Airpods (which I really disliked), but then again those came out 3 years ago and as such a part of me was hoping for something that was significantly better, especially when you factor in the $250 price point. The one thing I can say is that these are probably going to work for a lot of people and I have to say that there are certain things about them that I absolutely love. On the other hand, in terms of pure sound quality, Apple has done some really weird and arguably cool things that make the Airpods Pro almost trick you into thinking you're listening to something that is better than what it actually is. Anyway, sorry for the tangent, let me begin:
> 
> ...



Awesome review. Seems like an easy recommendation for those who are looking in that price range for all these features and aren't too anal about SQ.

The best part is that these will now set a new standard in what a total package should be. Now we just need more well known brands for this site to get their crap together. Or for newcomers to make a statement and have first dibs in a highly overlooked market...


----------



## Wiet Rasjidgandha

BigZ12 said:


> Look what I found!!


I have several tws, but i love lypertek Tevi sq. Balanced, clarity & stable connection. Fitted with Comply S400. 
And also i love my Fostex TM2 + FitEar Titans so much.


----------



## FYLegend (Nov 10, 2019)

MPOW M8:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/400..._expid=98cfe4df-889e-4b98-ad7b-ac637c1ec053-1

USB Type C, AptX, CVC 8.0, 24H battery. Unfortunately, aside from Type C it seems like a lower-budget product than the T5 and they promote an emphasis on "heavy bass".

EDIT: Looks like MPOW doesn't officially sell the T5 on Amazon.ca... That means a slower release here!


----------



## tinyman392

clerkpalmer said:


> Rtings tested the APP.  Among the highlights is that they concluded the ANC is better than Sony which is different from most observations here.
> 
> Link here: https://www.rtings.com/headphones/reviews/apple/airpods-pro-truly-wireless
> 
> I am now wondering whether selling the PB pro and keeping the APP is the better move even though i dont love the sq



Nice, some measurements with these.  Looks like rtings uses an adjusted Harman Target (2017) for their compensation which calls for a 10dB bass boost and DF for the treble regions.  The nice thing is that you can quickly convert this over to the DF normalization (something similar to what an Etymotic would be based off of).  Granted it's more of an old school compensation, but it shows a lot of what Apple was targeting.  I've adjusted the bass for the DF normalization below at some points and connected them: 3 points < 20, 20, 30, 40, ~58, 80, 100, 200.  Everything after the ~200 regions is clean for DF since they use DF for everything past this point.  

The right earphone looks to be having a worse seal if you look below 20Hz, though it doesn't make that big of a difference, the midrange also looks a little wonky.  I drew a line at max(left, 20 Hz, 4kHz) + max(left, 20Hz, 4kHz) / 2.  What does this show?  From 20 Hz all the way through 4kHz, the AirPod Pros are within 2.5dB from DF neutral.  More specifically, < 2k the response is about 2.5dB above that line (except for the dip at 1k) and above 2k, the response is about 2dB below that line once you hit 5k with strong spikes through to the 10k range.  If they had evened out the spikeyness > 4k Hz, removed the large increase at 10k and average it out, you'd actually get something _very close_ to the Etymotic target curve.  I know there was a blog post (don't remember the source) that talked about how Etymotic originally targeted DF then found out that treble was too harsh with DF due to loudness in recordings.  They lowered the treble response in their originals in twice as they were trying to get it right.  This resulted in 3 IEMs, the ER-4B, ER-4S, and ER-4P which were released in that order.  There curves can be seen in Rin Choi's blog.

The Harman target has really taken the audiophile community by storm in the past 5 years and with good reason, it helps further mask out the recording issues (due in part to the loudness wars) that Etymotic battled years past.  Etymotic tried to do it by reducing treble, Harman does it by increasing bass.  The end goal is to remove those elements of the recording that are "harmful" to the enjoyment of music while maintaining everything else.  The Harman curve gets close to this and does it pretty well.  That being said, Apple has never really targeted the Harman curve in their IEMs. Their ADDIEM were remarkably very close to DF like the APP are.


----------



## Ted Presley

AudioNoob said:


> Did anybody try the latest tronsmart spunky beat? I saw some online reviews noting qc issues. I suppose they are not an earphone company though they do well with batteries. One thing we are not talking about is the quality of the battery cells used in these earphones. Given the number of charging cycles, most will die within a couple years.



I'm using it, what's your concern? I find it's good for the price.

And I don't think I will use any TWS for 5 years, esp. for 20 bucks one.....


----------



## AudioNoob

Ted Presley said:


> I'm using it, what's your concern? I find it's good for the price.
> 
> And I don't think I will use any TWS for 5 years, esp. for 20 bucks one.....


Oh I was curious about how they sound like. Compared to m5 or other popular options. 

More than value, I just think it's a pity that we are creating heaps of e-trash that is hard to recycle. We could make tws with button cell batteries that are removable with a screwdriver for example, or come up with other more sustainable solutions. Alas, that is not the world as it is now.


----------



## tinyman392 (Nov 10, 2019)

dweaver said:


> Anyone try both the Airpod Pro and the Liberty 2 Pro yet? Or L2P and WF-1000XM3?
> 
> I had a brief listen to the APP at the Apple store and was impressed by comfort, ANC, and ambient mode. The audio quality seemed a bit less than several products I own though.
> 
> ...



I can answer some of these for the APP.  Wind issues with ANC on are not an issue, with transparency on it becomes an issue (this may make it a little problematic for biking when you need to hear your surroundings and have lots of wind noise).  I'm not sure what football sound are, but if you're referring to the thump sounds when walking (microphonics) then the ANC and transparency modes get rid of this, it should work the same way with the WF-1000XM3.  If you turn off both ANC and transparency then I know you get the microphonics, I don't remember about wind noise.


----------



## dweaver

Thanks Tinyman392, I did mean sounds when walking. So the APP gets rid of wind noise and microphonics. That is good news  I have talked with a WF-1000XM3 owner where I live and they suffer from wind and if they are like my WI1000X they will have a bit of microphonics so the APP is better in this regard.

So for me it will come down to the APP or forego ANC and get the Liberty 2 Pro for better Audio quality, and use one of my over ear ANC headphones like my AKG 700NC when I want noise cancelling.


----------



## webvan

Wind noise is going to be a problem above a certain speed with any device that has ANC on because the mics will pick it up (maybe someone will come up with the option to activate Feedback only ANC one day). If you run as fast as Kipchoge for instance ! For us mere mortals it will be a problem for bike rides, be it the Sonys, the APPs, the Echo Buds, the LTA+, etc...the only fix is to turn off the mics and therefore ANC. I also noticed yesterday that the Echo Buds no longer responded to "Alexa" when riding my bike, so same problem for mics used to talk.


----------



## Bhelpoori

tinyman392 said:


> Nice, some measurements with these.  Looks like rtings uses an adjusted Harman Target (2017) for their compensation which calls for a 10dB bass boost and DF for the treble regions.  The nice thing is that you can quickly convert this over to the DF normalization (something similar to what an Etymotic would be based off of).  Granted it's more of an old school compensation, but it shows a lot of what Apple was targeting.  I've adjusted the bass for the DF normalization below at some points and connected them: 3 points < 20, 20, 30, 40, ~58, 80, 100, 200.  Everything after the ~200 regions is clean for DF since they use DF for everything past this point.
> 
> The right earphone looks to be having a worse seal if you look below 20Hz, though it doesn't make that big of a difference, the midrange also looks a little wonky.  I drew a line at max(left, 20 Hz, 4kHz) + max(left, 20Hz, 4kHz) / 2.  What does this show?  From 20 Hz all the way through 4kHz, the AirPod Pros are within 2.5dB from DF neutral.  More specifically, < 2k the response is about 2.5dB above that line (except for the dip at 1k) and above 2k, the response is about 2dB below that line once you hit 5k with strong spikes through to the 10k range.  If they had evened out the spikeyness > 4k Hz, removed the large increase at 10k and average it out, you'd actually get something _very close_ to the Etymotic target curve.  I know there was a blog post (don't remember the source) that talked about how Etymotic originally targeted DF then found out that treble was too harsh with DF due to loudness in recordings.  They lowered the treble response in their originals in twice as they were trying to get it right.  This resulted in 3 IEMs, the ER-4B, ER-4S, and ER-4P which were released in that order.  There curves can be seen in Rin Choi's blog.
> 
> The Harman target has really taken the audiophile community by storm in the past 5 years and with good reason, it helps further mask out the recording issues (due in part to the loudness wars) that Etymotic battled years past.  Etymotic tried to do it by reducing treble, Harman does it by increasing bass.  The end goal is to remove those elements of the recording that are "harmful" to the enjoyment of music while maintaining everything else.  The Harman curve gets close to this and does it pretty well.  That being said, Apple has never really targeted the Harman curve in their IEMs. Their ADDIEM were remarkably very close to DF like the APP are.


Very interesting. As an aside, I note in the rtings testing it says "Unfortunately, our testing dongle doesn't support Bluetooth 5.0 or interact with the H1 chip" which means that some of the tests, like latency, show the worst case possible for Apple products and probably for lots of others too. I wonder what else this affects too?


----------



## dweaver

webvan said:


> Wind noise is going to be a problem above a certain speed with any device that has ANC on because the mics will pick it up (maybe someone will come up with the option to activate Feedback only ANC one day). If you run as fast as Kipchoge for instance ! For us mere mortals it will be a problem for bike rides, be it the Sonys, the APPs, the Echo Buds, the LTA+, etc...the only fix is to turn off the mics and therefore ANC. I also noticed yesterday that the Echo Buds no longer responded to "Alexa" when riding my bike, so same problem for mics used to talk.


I suspect that too a bit. I am a hard walker and slow jogger so no real speed wind for me but I live in a very windy area. So wind is a major issue for me. But I also really liked the ambient mode of the APP one thing the L2P is missing. Really wish Anker had added that one more feature...


----------



## webvan

Yes the APPs ambient mode is the best I've ever heard, as close as "transparent" as it gets.  The Echo Buds do well too but it feels more processed, same as the 65Ts that would probably be a tad behind.
If you live in a very windy area and get winds of 20kph+ I suspect you'll get the same wind noise I got on my bike yesterday


----------



## BigZ12 (Nov 10, 2019)

Minarets said:


> Not sure I understand.
> left is set to noise control and right is Siri?  If so, Siri still works for me.


iPhone Settings - Bluetooth - Press the (i) behind Airpods Pro
At the bottom you can choose which microphone to use. Automatic - always left - always right
If I pick automatic or right, "Hey Siri" does not work. I have to pick left manually.
I use iPhone X with 13.2.2 - Have tried everything! Reset Siri several times, reset the APPs twice, tried different languages etc...

Anyway... Have tried all three tips, also played around with filling the tips with foam from a Symbio Mandarine tip.
Whatever I do, when moving the mouth/chewing/walking (and touches the APPs) I get changes (like "fluctuations" - I'm Norwegian so it's difficult to find the words to describe  ) in the sound, typical on high details like hi-hat/cymbals.
The tips that give me seal and the least changes in the sound is small on the left, medium on right. (Edit: the Ear Tip Fit Test says I don't have a seal on the left with small tip  )
I just think this is another proof that my ears always react to something negative with silicone tips. (vacuum feel, sound changing while chewing, thumping when moving/running etc)
Edit2: This sound change is ONLY with ANC on.


----------



## dweaver (Nov 10, 2019)

We frequently have wind well over 20km/hr so really think I am going  try the L2P instead. It helps that I also own the MTW so can use them for at work


----------



## jagar46

dweaver said:


> I suspect that too a bit. I am a hard walker and slow jogger so no real speed wind for me but I live in a very windy area. So wind is a major issue for me. But I also really liked the ambient mode of the APP one thing the L2P is missing. Really wish Anker had added that one more feature...



I work outside with the L2P and I haven’t noticed any problem with wind noise yet, I say yet because it hasn’t been that windy since I’ve had them. The seal on these in my ears is good so I do hear my footsteps a bit, i think this is down to the seal and our own bone structure, how we walk etc, I’m quite heavy footed. My primary priority for these was comfort and SQ and ease of use. Comfort is great, I forget I’ve got these on, these have never disconnected when in use and connect the instant the box is open. I have no other TW to compare these to SQ wise but i am amazed at the SQ of these, if there are other TW with better SQ than these, I’d be interested in getting them.


----------



## areek (Nov 10, 2019)

I have been using the TFZ B.V2 for a week and this device has a very sweet tonality but lacks enough volume, which can be overcome by boosting software volume slightly.

@Bartig Which tws would you suggest from the sub 100/50$ category which is fairly clean and balanced sounding without boosted bass/trebles?


----------



## Putshoesonthatmonster

https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B07VB46R9Y

Tevi for £69.99 on a lightening deal, be quick 21 percent claimed


----------



## whitemouse

So is this better than my Shure SE846 with TRN BT20s Bluetooth adaptors? 

Trick question.


----------



## tinyman392

Bhelpoori said:


> Very interesting. As an aside, I note in the rtings testing it says "Unfortunately, our testing dongle doesn't support Bluetooth 5.0 or interact with the H1 chip" which means that some of the tests, like latency, show the worst case possible for Apple products and probably for lots of others too. I wonder what else this affects too?



Granted that not everyone has a device that can utilize the H1 chip, but I have to say it's kind of unfair for them to score the latency since if they can't completely test it to its fullest, and worst, potentials.  It's like having a performance/sports car review where the reviewer had the car stuck in its "comfort"/"normal" mode and saying that the suspension is sloppy, the steering is too loose and uninformative, and the throttle response is non-existent when all of those issues would be solved by getting out of "comfort"/"normal" mode.  

I'm not sure if it would affect the actual measurements they supplied though It's possible, but I doubt it.


----------



## billbishere

So I have been through a couple different ones now...  Most recent was the mpow t5s.  While they were pretty good.  I find something better imo...


Best buy has them on sale for 30 bucks.  They are the jlab true wireless.  

https://www.bestbuy.com/site/jlab-a...rbud-headphones-white/6344785.p?skuId=6344785

They fit better and sound better and are cheaper right now.


----------



## pukism

I am sure this has been discussed, but it's quite hard to find proper links. Which IEMs would you recommend? $100-$200 range or so for daily use (cycling, walking, etc)

I am currently considering Melomania 1 and Sony WF1000XM3. What else?


----------



## clerkpalmer

Mw07 owners, do you have an issue where the fit wings pull off the back of the iem when using them? I had this problem with the original mw07 and it's happening again in the go version. The wing does not connect strongly at the back and pulls off in use. This may be a deal breaker for me.


----------



## WesennTony

clerkpalmer said:


> Mw07 owners, do you have an issue where the fit wings pull off the back of the iem when using them? I had this problem with the original mw07 and it's happening again in the go version. The wing does not connect strongly at the back and pulls off in use. This may be a deal breaker for me.


Not noticed it with my Go and previously owned original.


----------



## Luchyres

The Mavin Air-XR has started to appear in most colors (no black) on Amazon for $119 and is estimated to be in stock 11/14.

I'm waiting for black - but I'm keen to try these. 

Mavin Air-XR Ultra Small True Wireless Bluetooth 5.0 Earbuds with Charging Case,10hr Battery, IPX7 Sweat Proof, Built-in Latest QCC3020 SoC, 50hrs Playtime: Up to 100 ft. Range, Noise Cancelling Mic,B https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07XXY99XN/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_i_-wdYDb16DV8VA


----------



## WesennTony (Nov 10, 2019)

JimsReviewRoom has just reviewed Liberty 2 Pro : 

Also He offered a $40 off discount code JIMMYL2P at amazon, below his video. I couldn't resist the high praise here and ordered a pair before I find excuses on what I need another TWS for...


----------



## WesennTony

Silentism said:


> How'd you feel about the sizing compared to the ear tips your nuarls came with? I liked how the S\M spinfits fit, and also the small some tips, but I have to use the medium domes for a good sound. They're a tiny bit too large where they're not that secure if I look down with them on.


Here is the comparison of these tips. From the left to right, dots++, Nural stock tip, Sony hybrids, all in M size. Sonys were my favorites, but dots++ replace them for Nt01ax.


----------



## WesennTony

howdy said:


> My Google Pixel 3 always seems to default to AAC which is fine. I can always go in to delopers options to change it but I generally just stick with the default.


The thing with M2 is that if you change the codec other than the default, the touch controls are disabled, which they claimed as "on purpose". AAC in my V30 caused dropouts from M2 about every 15 mins.


----------



## geoxile

Luchyres said:


> The Mavin Air-XR has started to appear in most colors (no black) on Amazon for $119 and is estimated to be in stock 11/14.
> 
> I'm waiting for black - but I'm keen to try these.
> 
> Mavin Air-XR Ultra Small True Wireless Bluetooth 5.0 Earbuds with Charging Case,10hr Battery, IPX7 Sweat Proof, Built-in Latest QCC3020 SoC, 50hrs Playtime: Up to 100 ft. Range, Noise Cancelling Mic,B https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07XXY99XN/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_i_-wdYDb16DV8VA


Looks like they're still using the same tips. Never could get those to work even when I tried.


----------



## CocaCola15

dweaver said:


> Thanks Tinyman392, I did mean sounds when walking. So the APP gets rid of wind noise and microphonics. That is good news  I have talked with a WF-1000XM3 owner where I live and they suffer from wind and if they are like my WI1000X they will have a bit of microphonics so the APP is better in this regard.
> 
> So for me it will come down to the APP or forego ANC and get the Liberty 2 Pro for better Audio quality, and use one of my over ear ANC headphones like my AKG 700NC when I want noise cancelling.


Wise decision. I think I’ve landed on my TW earphone of choice, the Soundcore L2P. I’ve owned the Sonys and the Senn TW, among others, and my ears told me the L2P offer the best SQ. Maybe not prrfection, no NC and no transient pass through, but I don’t need either for my use. However, no wind noise. On Amazon there is a $40 discount code: JIMMYL2P. Works, I just checked.


----------



## tlau1125

BigZ12 said:


> iPhone Settings - Bluetooth - Press the (i) behind Airpods Pro
> At the bottom you can choose which microphone to use. Automatic - always left - always right
> If I pick automatic or right, "Hey Siri" does not work. I have to pick left manually.
> I use iPhone X with 13.2.2 - Have tried everything! Reset Siri several times, reset the APPs twice, tried different languages etc...


For the Siri issue, does it only affect Siri or does it affect other functions that use the mic such as phone calls or voice recordings?


----------



## BigZ12

tlau1125 said:


> For the Siri issue, does it only affect Siri or does it affect other functions that use the mic such as phone calls or voice recordings?


Both mics work with phone calls. Haven't tried voice recordings.


----------



## mjb152

if I order the liberty 2 pro from amazon US,  whats the chances I get an older pair with the static noise issue ?    
I'm visiting for a week,  so my chance to return them would be practically zero


----------



## hifi80sman

dweaver said:


> I suspect that too a bit. I am a hard walker and slow jogger so no real speed wind for me but I live in a very windy area. So wind is a major issue for me. But I also really liked the ambient mode of the APP one thing the L2P is missing. Really wish Anker had added that one more feature...


You may want to wait for the Bose 700 True Wireless.  I'm sure they'll have the Bose Tips that are semi-open, but when you need ANC, you can turn it on (much like the QC 30).  For pure sound, both the L2P or L2 are a great choice.


----------



## hifi80sman

mjb152 said:


> if I order the liberty 2 pro from amazon US,  whats the chances I get an older pair with the static noise issue ?
> I'm visiting for a week,  so my chance to return them would be practically zero


According to the Q&A, these are the "new version" and there is some feedback here that the new version is better with respect to hiss.


----------



## clerkpalmer

hifi80sman said:


> You may want to wait for the Bose 700 True Wireless.  I'm sure they'll have the Bose Tips that are semi-open, but when you need ANC, you can turn it on (much like the QC 30).  For pure sound, both the L2P or L2 are a great choice.


Bose needs to get these to the market. They are losing sales every day. Surprised they are so slow to respond. I know they said q1 2020 but enough already


----------



## dweaver

CocaCola15 said:


> Wise decision. I think I’ve landed on my TW earphone of choice, the Soundcore L2P. I’ve owned the Sonys and the Senn TW, among others, and my ears told me the L2P offer the best SQ. Maybe not prrfection, no NC and no transient pass through, but I don’t need either for my use. However, no wind noise. On Amazon there is a $40 discount code: JIMMYL2P. Works, I just checked.


Unfortunately the code doesnt appear to work from Amazon.ca. sucks, that's $40 I really could use.


----------



## CocaCola15

That does stink.


----------



## mjb152

I'm in CA on holiday, used a revolut card on Amazon.com,  $40 code  (Thanks !!!) and same day delivery,  works out at £92


----------



## hifi80sman

mjb152 said:


> I'm in CA on holiday, used a revolut card on Amazon.com,  $40 code  (Thanks !!!) and same day delivery,  works out at £92


Good luck!  Please let us know!


----------



## dweaver

hifi80sman said:


> You may want to wait for the Bose 700 True Wireless.  I'm sure they'll have the Bose Tips that are semi-open, but when you need ANC, you can turn it on (much like the QC 30).  For pure sound, both the L2P or L2 are a great choice.


Thanks, I own the QC30 and find them lacking in audio quality and they suffer from wind noise. So not sure I want to wait on the new model. But have to admit I like the new over ear model more than previous Bose headphones so they might surprise me.


----------



## mjb152

hifi80sman said:


> Good luck!  Please let us know!


Will do, I'll be testing them out immediately. I've got the anbes 359 currently, so I'll compare directly against those


----------



## jant71

Luchyres said:


> The Mavin Air-XR has started to appear in most colors (no black) on Amazon for $119 and is estimated to be in stock 11/14.
> 
> I'm waiting for black - but I'm keen to try these.
> 
> Mavin Air-XR Ultra Small True Wireless Bluetooth 5.0 Earbuds with Charging Case,10hr Battery, IPX7 Sweat Proof, Built-in Latest QCC3020 SoC, 50hrs Playtime: Up to 100 ft. Range, Noise Cancelling Mic,B https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07XXY99XN/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_i_-wdYDb16DV8VA



Looks solid but surprised there is no transparency/ambient mode on them.


----------



## X-Nemesis

Are there any good TWS coming up in the 11.11 sale tomorrow worth looking at?


----------



## surfacecube

X-Nemesis said:


> Are there any good TWS coming up in the 11.11 sale tomorrow worth looking at?



What I was going to ask. 

I'm kinda interested in the 1more Stylish, they'll be up for around 60 euros (64 USD) on their Ali store but I'm wondering if there's a better alternative at that price


----------



## Tavleen Suri

mjb152 said:


> if I order the liberty 2 pro from amazon US,  whats the chances I get an older pair with the static noise issue ?
> I'm visiting for a week,  so my chance to return them would be practically zero


Well the latest review video I saw of them also complained of a little static or hiss albeit at really low volume ...so even am gonna wait a few days b4 ordering them....also I cant decide bw the l2p and the l2p pros


----------



## XGUGU

whitemouse said:


> So is this better than my Shure SE846 with TRN BT20s Bluetooth adaptors?
> 
> Trick question.


No TWS will beat that setup,  I have Fiio FH1 and got to try also the Shure se215 hooked to Mee BTX2 I find it to be better than Shure's own adapter. Also nearly indistinguishable from wired.


----------



## dwil (Nov 10, 2019)

how much worse is a qcc3020 than the best chip? Besides the qcc3020 chip, which other chips to look for in chifi iems?


----------



## Fantasmic

Bonjour, je suis nouveau membre, désolé pour ma mauvaise anglais (je suis français : Beyersmile 
Je suis interressant par le SSK BT03 ou le Mpow M5.
Je mets la mousse conforme dans tout mon écouteur, connaissez-vous la référence de ces deux écouteurs?
Merci beaucoup


----------



## chinmie

Fantasmic said:


> Bonjour, je suis nouveau membre, désolé pour ma mauvaise anglais (je suis français : Beyersmile
> Je suis interressant par le SSK BT03 ou le Mpow M5.
> Je mets la mousse conforme dans tout mon écouteur, connaissez-vous la référence de ces deux écouteurs?
> Merci beaucoup



you can read @Bartig  's review on his website
or you could browse using the search box for this thread, i think those two often talked and compared to one another here


----------



## Wiet Rasjidgandha

mattedialdoc said:


> Ditto. My buddy came over yesterday and got to compare the Tevi to a few I had laying around...the B530, MPOW, and Bomaker SiFi. The Tevi are awesome. It doesn’t bass like the T3...but hated the form factor on that one anyway. It has tight clean bass, and the most vocal and high/mid clarity of any I’ve tried thus far. Mine arrive later this week and I’ll give more impressions. I know everyone’s ears are different...but I think maybe the OP got a defective pair or something. For $89 these check all the boxes.


Did you compare Bomaker Sifi with Tevi?


----------



## AudioNoob

I've been looking for something like a bomaker/mpow with usb-c but have not seen anything yet. Astrotec looks great but s80 doesn't seem to have a sale, same for mavin air. I'm open to suggestions under $50 or so


----------



## Caipirina

11.11 is upon us and there is NOTHING I feel like getting from AliExpress.... I think I have reached max saturation level ...

And maybe saving up some money for the APP or those Bose TWS when they finally come


----------



## chinmie

Caipirina said:


> 11.11 is upon us and there is NOTHING I feel like getting from AliExpress.... I think I have reached max saturation level ...
> 
> And maybe saving up some money for the APP or those Bose TWS when they finally come



I'm getting the GGMM T1 and the Anker Neo... don't need them...just couldn't resist the itch


----------



## muyah

The AliExpress seller has just confirmed to me that the SSK BT08 does not have the same sound quality as the BT03, which is a shame because I was really hoping for a good black TWS under €50.

I’ll probably be going for the Mpow M5 although it’s been around for a while (shame about the micro USB). Waiting to get an answer from the store on what’s different about the new M8 and M20.


----------



## jlo mein

X-Nemesis said:


> Are there any good TWS coming up in the 11.11 sale tomorrow worth looking at?



I had Shanling MTW100 and Mifo O7 both on my Wish List saved with big sale prices, but now on 11.11 they seem to have pulled all the stock.


----------



## Aevum

I was going to check out the MTW100 and im seeing that its not worth getting, sellers that have stock arent releasing it at discount prices.

And at the price its at on aliexpress, might as well pay 8 bucks more and buy them here in spain.


----------



## whitemouse

XGUGU said:


> No TWS will beat that setup,  I have Fiio FH1 and got to try also the Shure se215 hooked to Mee BTX2 I find it to be better than Shure's own adapter. Also nearly indistinguishable from wired.




Thank you!

I also hooked Shure 535 to TRN BT20s Bluetooth adapters, the sound with Bluetooth adaptor is not just bad, it is horribly bad, so bad, that no amount of wireless convenience would make me go wireless. 

Bluetooth audio simply is not there yet, it is not even comparable to wired headphones.


----------



## jlo mein (Nov 11, 2019)

jlo mein said:


> I had Shanling MTW100 and Mifo O7 both on my Wish List saved with big sale prices, but now on 11.11 they seem to have pulled all the stock.



Well if anyone wants the Shanling MTW100, I just bought it from Hifigo on their 11-11 Flash Sale plus HIFIGO5 $5 off coupon for $74USD total (BA version).  All Aliexpress sellers have it for standard $90 price. 

I've never bought from them before so buy at your own risk. They ship from Hong Kong.


----------



## jasaero

OK... I am trying the Sennheiser MTW, Sony MF-1000XM3, M&D MW07 Plus. Have updated my rankings in the ranking TWS thread with tonight's first take.  It's all to see if there is something I'm will to spend more on to have something better than Shanling or SSK.  I don't have the SSK handy though to compare.  So far the Sony are most interesting as they are very close in SQ and have nice and better features unrelated to SQ.  The Sennheiser don't fit me well and seem more boomy than M&D and Sony to me.  The M&D do have a very accurate and full spectrum sound though.  For $300 though rather than well done noise canceling and other things it has nicer materials and build.  The Sennheiser is sorta a let down for my ears... Doesn't fit comfortably and is sorta boomy.  Does go loudest though. None are as comfortable and small as the Shanling.  Would say the M&D is clost on comfort though and the physical 3 buttons is the best no phone UI of the bunch.

I'll update more later.  Will probably return all and keep thinking about it.  No way to demo in store so I just went this route. May try the Anker also later or while I have these if a deal comes up.

If anyone has questions while I am able to evaluate all back to back let me know.


----------



## webvan (Nov 11, 2019)

chinmie said:


> I'm getting the GGMM T1 and the Anker Neo... don't need them...just couldn't resist the itch



The Nilikin GO are at a good price https://fr.aliexpress.com/item/33015259001.html 22.46€ - I'm intrigued with their "open IEM" concept to use while bike riding...or running in noisier environments since they don't produce "thumping" based on your feedback.


----------



## muyah

muyah said:


> The AliExpress seller has just confirmed to me that the SSK BT08 does not have the same sound quality as the BT03, which is a shame because I was really hoping for a good black TWS under €50.
> 
> I’ll probably be going for the Mpow M5 although it’s been around for a while (shame about the micro USB). Waiting to get an answer from the store on what’s different about the new M8 and M20.



Got a response from the store. The internals of the M8 and M20 are not identical to those of the M5, so they're hesitant to comment on the SQ. I'm going to play it safe and get the M5 unless someone else knows of a deal on an even better black TWS in that price range.


----------



## Dcell7

Aevum said:


> I was going to check out the MTW100 and im seeing that its not worth getting, sellers that have stock arent releasing it at discount prices.
> 
> And at the price its at on aliexpress, might as well pay 8 bucks more and buy them here in spain.



I got them a few weeks ago from Ali for 66 euro and a few cents. I found a Aliexpress site-wide coupon and stacked the seller coupons to get this price. For the full price you are better off buying them locally.


----------



## Caipirina

chinmie said:


> I'm getting the GGMM T1 and the Anker Neo... don't need them...just couldn't resist the itch



Hmm .. *Anker Soundcore Liberty Neo ... *
I wonder what they bring to the table that I won't get from my QCY T1   So far most appealing is that what is usually to have for 50-60$ I could swing today for 26$ ... 

Or that Spunky buds cheapest APTX for something like 16$ 

But i think all the stuff I read here the last few days about the APP makes me really want something new in terms of 'new & better features', not just another fancy case  

Can't believe that I am not going to order anything today ...


----------



## chinmie

webvan said:


> The Nilikin GO are at a good price https://fr.aliexpress.com/item/33015259001.html 22.46€ - I'm intrigued with their "open IEM" concept to use while bike riding...or running in noisier environments since they don't produce "thumping" based on your feedback.



that's a nice deal. did you went for it? i hope ypu like it, as i really enjoy it



Caipirina said:


> Hmm .. *Anker Soundcore Liberty Neo ... *
> I wonder what they bring to the table that I won't get from my QCY T1   So far most appealing is that what is usually to have for 50-60$ I could swing today for 26$ ...
> 
> Or that Spunky buds cheapest APTX for something like 16$
> ...



yes, the price that made me interested. i doubt it would be better sounding than my existing units, but it might surprise me. the GGMM is tempting because it has rubber body and has ipx7 rating, so i will be using it as a beater/sport tws


----------



## migueneitor (Nov 11, 2019)

Debating myself on whether I should buy the Sabbat E12 Ultra (37€ on AliExpress after coupons) or 'splurge' on the Shanling MTW100 on Hifigo (around 67€ after coupons). It's a shame there are no 11/11 promos for the Shanling on AliExpress. Will stay tuned in case that changes.

Any other pairs I should keep an eye on for today?


----------



## X-Nemesis

jlo mein said:


> I had Shanling MTW100 and Mifo O7 both on my Wish List saved with big sale prices, but now on 11.11 they seem to have pulled all the stock.



Well that sucks as I was hoping for the Shanling's after reading some more, post my comment.


----------



## webvan

chinmie said:


> that's a nice deal. did you went for it? i hope ypu like it, as i really enjoy it



Yep, got them in red! Like @Caipirina I think. Can't remember seeing his feedback, particularly for running?


----------



## Fantasmic

[QUOTE = "chinmie, post: 15300393, membre: 462289"] vous pouvez lire la critique de [USER = 483175] @Bartig [/ USER] sur son site
ou vous pouvez parcourir en utilisant la boîte de recherche pour ce fil, je pense que ces deux souvent parlé et comparés les uns aux autres ici [/ QUOTE]
tanks you , i choose my ears with his many test , a very good site .


----------



## Aaronstark11

Hi. I bought Mpow T5 a few days ago after reading like 300+ pages from this amazing forum. *Thank you everyone* as I'm loving these. This forum is awesome. I've learned so much from here. [_Btw can anyone tell me how am I supposed to know if the buds are fulky charged? When I put them in for charging they show red light? What is the indication of fully charged?_]


----------



## gibletzor

Aaronstark11 said:


> Hi. I bought Mpow T5 a few days ago after reading like 300+ pages from this amazing forum. *Thank you everyone* as I'm loving these. This forum is awesome. I've learned so much from here. [_Btw can anyone tell me how am I supposed to know if the buds are fulky charged? When I put them in for charging they show red light? What is the indication of fully charged?_]


When there is no light blinking while they're in the case, they're fully charged.


----------



## Aaronstark11

gibletzor said:


> When there is no light blinking while they're in the case, they're fully charged.


Got it. Thanks


----------



## Caipirina

webvan said:


> Yep, got them in red! Like @Caipirina I think. Can't remember seeing his feedback, particularly for running?



I finally did a run with them, and thumping IS less. But I still can't put my finger on why I still would rather grab my Anbes / SSK 
(This is probably why I have not given any proper feedback yet)

They are nice and everything, but somehow they don't convince me ... and it drives me nuts that I don't know why exactly


----------



## dwil

So what did you guys buy for 11/11? I ended up wasting all day being indecisive and bought nothing.


----------



## geoxile

Having an issue with the mw07 plus where the battery reading is stuck at 90%. I recall someone had an issue like that with the mw07 go. Were you able to fix it?


----------



## carloshacecosas

How good are the SSK BT03 or the QCY T1 compared to wired IEMs?

Will probably buy something more expensive for general usage, but they're cheap now on 11.11 and might be good to get some beaters for the gym.


----------



## chinmie

Caipirina said:


> I finally did a run with them, and thumping IS less. But I still can't put my finger on why I still would rather grab my Anbes / SSK
> (This is probably why I have not given any proper feedback yet)
> 
> They are nice and everything, but somehow they don't convince me ... and it drives me nuts that I don't know why exactly



Maybe the sound just don't match your preference 
Usually among my friends, the ones that enjoys the Sabbat x12 would also like the Nillkin, as they are a bit similar in mids and treble, nut with better bass response


----------



## Putshoesonthatmonster (Nov 11, 2019)

So I couldn't resist buying the tevis yesterday for £69. I have only had a quick listen however straight out the box they have the best sound compared to the mpow M5/T5 and Sifi.

I quickly loaded up a you tube clip to try and high voices seem much more balanced too compared to the sifi.

Quick question has anyone had tws plus working on them? I have a pixel 3 and can't work it out. I contacted Google and they said it's available.  I am wondering if it's my phone or earbuds. Also what chip do they have?


----------



## AudioNoob

If they could make the sifi with usb-c and tweak the anesthetics ever so slightly (remove that phone handle icon, more elegant battery meter) they'd have a sub 50 default. Not many options at that size and case, and looks like they lucked with the shell sizing and shape


----------



## hifi80sman

Took a chance on the LP2 "new version" with the promo code from my man Jimmy.  Should receive today and we shall see!


----------



## dweaver

Look forward to your take on the new one. To bad that code didn't work here in Canada. I have wait until I sell of some gear to afford them. I am pretty much settled on the L2P though.


----------



## jasaero

hifi80sman said:


> Took a chance on the LP2 "new version" with the promo code from my man Jimmy.  Should receive today and we shall see!



What promo code is this?  I'm somewhat interested in including them in my buy them all and test them all and keep maybe one and return rest search of bit more premium priced options.


----------



## Minarets

just tried out the AirPods Pro on a 3:30 flight to the west coast and man was I impressed.  Was worried after reading a review on Reddit but these are better than serviceable.  Based off his review i think he was hoping the noise cancellation would be as good as the QC35 standard. It’s obviously not.  

that said he kept talking about all the sounds he could hear.   I assume now he was referring to the noise with no audio or music playing and was just trying to cancel sound. Not sure.  I will say, if that’s your goal, don’t do them.  However, with music or movies, with ANC on , and the fan blowing directly on me, I could hear nothing including the captains chime ins with music at 40%.  I was totally wowed.  I thought I’d have to be at or close to full blast to get that level of noise cancellation.  
Hoping on another flight now but for flying these work extremely well unless silence is what you are looking for.  

the only complaint I can find for me so far with APP is lack of soundstage.  
Thanks


----------



## hifi80sman

jasaero said:


> What promo code is this?  I'm somewhat interested in including them in my buy them all and test them all and keep maybe one and return rest search of bit more premium priced options.


$40 off code: JIMMYL2P

Close to the $50 off pre-order code, so grab it while you can.


----------



## Daniel Gur (Nov 11, 2019)

Best TWS to buy on aliexpress right now (11.11)?
I got a recommendation here on the MPOW's, but there is a sale now so maybe I can get something better?
I need the earphones to work seperately too, like the MPOW's (meaning I can use only 1 if I want to).
Thanks !!!!


----------



## TK33

geoxile said:


> Having an issue with the mw07 plus where the battery reading is stuck at 90%. I recall someone had an issue like that with the mw07 go. Were you able to fix it?



That was probably me  I returned them to Best Buy as it just seemed like I got a dud.  I havent repurchased them yet and am waiting until they get a new batch at my local Best Buy.  They did have a few left in stock but suggested I wait in case the others have the same issue.


----------



## Minarets

Let me clarify on the plane.   The second flight was better for me to gather more thoughts.  You def get noise let in the AirPods pro.  But it def muffles it considerably and allows you to enjoy music or movies considerably.   No replacement for over ears but worth it (to me) to not have to carry those. Travel listening isn’t for musical enjoyment for me.  It’s to take my mind off the laborious travel.  These work perfect for that.


----------



## geoxile

TK33 said:


> That was probably me  I returned them to Best Buy as it just seemed like I got a dud.  I havent repurchased them yet and am waiting until they get a new batch at my local Best Buy.  They did have a few left in stock but suggested I wait in case the others have the same issue.


Based on further testing I found they only update the battery in increments of 10 instead of 2 like the other TWS earphones I tried. Not sure if that's a bug or not. So far I've gotten about 5 hours and have 3x percent left


----------



## tracyca

rhsauer said:


> On an unrelated note, since I’m now done with the MW07+, I’ve been listening to the Soundcore Liberty 2 Pros for the last hour or so, and I have to say that, even with the “hiss,” these are the best TWEs (and some of the best earphones, period) I have ever heard.   Incredible (melodic) bass, and incredible clarity.  Of course, I have to send these back too because they randomly disconnect during phone calls (and voice memos), and I think there might be a related issue with the microphone quality — but I will definitely get a new (hopefully working) pair.  They sound just that good.


I purchased the liberty pro 2 last week and the momentum’s and the pro 2 out class them to me. The volume gets way louder, I am one of the lucky ones my pair don’t  hiss at all.


----------



## Grayson73

carloshacecosas said:


> How good are the SSK BT03 or the QCY T1 compared to wired IEMs?
> 
> Will probably buy something more expensive for general usage, but they're cheap now on 11.11 and might be good to get some beaters for the gym.



The SSK BT03 is comparable to any wired IEM at the same price.  I can't even think of a wired IEM that sounds better at the same price actually.


----------



## Nuke142 (Nov 11, 2019)

New Alpha & Delta Elite for $58 minus $11 with code _elite11_ till 13rd
https://www.alphandelta.com/product-page/alpha-delta-elite
Should give a try?
APTX, Qualcomm's True Wireless Plus, 6mm dynamic driver, QCC3026, type-c


----------



## FYLegend

dweaver said:


> Look forward to your take on the new one. To bad that code didn't work here in Canada. I have wait until I sell of some gear to afford them. I am pretty much settled on the L2P though.


They've been pulled from Amazon.ca it seems... They also removed my question about whether it is the new version in Canada. I'm guessing they will re-list it soon but there will be a turn-around time.



Nuke142 said:


> New Alpha & Delta Elite for $58 minus $11 with code _elite11_ till 13rd
> https://www.alphandelta.com/product-page/alpha-delta-elite
> Should give a try?
> APTX, Qualcomm's True Wireless Plus, 6mm dynamic driver, QCC3026, type-c


The shell and case is the same as Wavefun Xpods 3/YTOM T1, although it has some different features as well... Tuning might differ too. I was contemplating on Wavefun Xpods 3T or YTOM T1 Pro which have Qi charging...


----------



## XGUGU

Nuke142 said:


> New Alpha & Delta Elite for $58 minus $11 with code _elite11_ till 13rd
> https://www.alphandelta.com/product-page/alpha-delta-elite
> Should give a try?
> APTX, Qualcomm's True Wireless Plus, 6mm dynamic driver, QCC3026, type-c


Nice, very few include that chip


----------



## hifi80sman

Nuke142 said:


> New Alpha & Delta Elite for $58 minus $11 with code _elite11_ till 13rd
> https://www.alphandelta.com/product-page/alpha-delta-elite
> Should give a try?
> APTX, Qualcomm's True Wireless Plus, 6mm dynamic driver, QCC3026, type-c


I think you'll be the guinea pig, so let us all know.  Most of us have tried the Wavefun or one with a similar shell (MEGIVEZ, PANFREY, insert weird Chi-Fi name).  By all accounts, the Wavefun are solid, but don't do the MEGIVEZ, they're complete trash.


----------



## mjb152

I picked up the L2P last night and tried them straight away    they came in around £93 
My first reaciton was wow.  Then I installed the app, and it got much better.  They're not mentally loud,  but the bass is great, and it can be increased.
I flicked backwards and forwards between the Anbes 359 and L2P,  and I came to realise that I really like the Anbes !  they're small/light and just work.  
I am keeping the L2p as they're accoustically better, but I can't seem to get the right ear to fit properly, and it aches after a while,  but I'll experiment with the other buds/wing tips.
Also,  when you take the L2P out and put them in the case, they carry on playing...until you close it.  Not sue why, but that annoys me.    Also ,  getting them into the case is a bit like tetris 
They're the negatives,   the positives are that they sound very nice.   I'm now wanting to listen to a £300 pair to see what the upgrade actually gets you.   Oh the battery life is brilliant,  I'll test that properly on the 12 hour flight home.   

I've bought 2 pairs of TWS following advice (which is excellent) on here, and both have been great purchases,  so thanks for all your input !


----------



## chinmie

FYLegend said:


> I was contemplating on Wavefun Xpods 3T or YTOM T1 Pro which have Qi charging



Does anyone here had compared them both head to head? Is there any difference in sound?


----------



## gibletzor

hifi80sman said:


> I think you'll be the guinea pig, so let us all know.  Most of us have tried the Wavefun or one with a similar shell (MEGIVEZ, PANFREY, insert weird Chi-Fi name).  By all accounts, the Wavefun are solid, but don't do the MEGIVEZ, they're complete trash.


They're also pretty bad under the Meijier name too.  Tried those, sent em right back.  Hopefully these don't have the same issues.


----------



## Blueshound24

rhsauer said:


> On an unrelated note, *since I’m now done with the MW07+*, I’ve been listening to the Soundcore Liberty 2 Pros for the last hour or so, and I have to say that, even with the “hiss,” these are the best TWEs (and some of the best earphones, period) I have ever heard.   Incredible (melodic) bass, and incredible clarity.  Of course, I have to send these back too because they randomly disconnect during phone calls (and voice memos), and I think there might be a related issue with the microphone quality — but I will definitely get a new (hopefully working) pair.  They sound just that good.




If you don't mind saying, why are you done with the MW07+? Sound? features? 
And how would you compare the MW07+ sound to the L2P?


----------



## Linus Jian

Anyone else waiting for the new 1more tws?https://detail.tmall.com/item.htm?s..._properties=5919063:6536025&scene=taobao_shop

I'm considering returning my mw07+ and waiting for these to ship next month.

The NC on mw07+ is just okay, I had to turn up the volume a lot on the subway even with the NC on. I don't think these will do a decent job on a plane.


----------



## clerkpalmer

Linus Jian said:


> Anyone else waiting for the new 1more tws?https://detail.tmall.com/item.htm?s..._properties=5919063:6536025&scene=taobao_shop
> 
> I'm considering returning my mw07+ and waiting for these to ship next month.
> 
> The NC on mw07+ is just okay, I had to turn up the volume a lot on the subway even with the NC on. I don't think these will do a decent job on a plane.



I was going to try them. Were supposed to ship this week but they are delayed due to a software issue.


----------



## rhsauer (Nov 11, 2019)

Blueshound24 said:


> If you don't mind saying, why are you done with the MW07+? Sound? features?
> And how would you compare the MW07+ sound to the L2P?



I sent the MW07+ back because I have only Apple devices and the MW07+ don’t support AAC.  I can’t really speak to the sound of the MW07+ because I was only able to connect them via SBC and I don’t think that codec allowed the earphones to show their full sonic capabilities.  I think M&D misstepped by not including AAC.

M&D mentioned that they expected to enable AAC through a firmware update, but they didn’t know the timing, or whether the firmware would be able to be updated without sending the earphones back to the manufacturer.  If/when they do update the MW07+ to include AAC, I may repurchase them.  Having said that, there are several other TWEs with better ANC that have recently hit the market (like the APPs and the Echo Buds), so the MW07+ are a harder sell now.  Every earphone has its moment, I guess — and it’s a tough market.

The L2Ps do connect via AAC and are really nice sounding — arguably the best sounding TWEs on the market now.  (Obviously, a very subjective judgment, and your mileage may vary.)

I’m aware the codecs are only part of the story — but it irked me to spend $299 on a pair of earphones that didn’t include the only high quality codec that Apple supports.


----------



## onree

Anyone still see MPOW T5 on (USA) Amazon? I've been periodically checking the pricing for them and today they just vanished.


----------



## hifi80sman (Nov 11, 2019)

mjb152 said:


> I picked up the L2P last night and tried them straight away    they came in around £93
> My first reaciton was wow.  Then I installed the app, and it got much better.  They're not mentally loud,  but the bass is great, and it can be increased.
> I flicked backwards and forwards between the Anbes 359 and L2P,  and I came to realise that I really like the Anbes !  they're small/light and just work.
> I am keeping the L2p as they're accoustically better, but I can't seem to get the right ear to fit properly, and it aches after a while,  but I'll experiment with the other buds/wing tips.
> ...


Honestly, the L2P, sound-wise, are right up there with the best.  The MW07 is arguably better, however, with the different EQ options and firmware updates, the L2P or even the L2 are in that upper echelon when you're talking pure SQ.

Now, if you're looking for ANC, the only good options are Sony and Apple.  Bose will have something here in 2020, but I mean come on Bose, TWS are just flat out taking off like hotcakes!  Also, the margins on them are likely far better than your standard full-sized headphone, so is 100% baffling why Bose is taking sooo long on those bad boys.


----------



## cwill

Anyone else's SSK randomly disconnect or not connect when removing from case? My Kisrall R18 doesn't do this at all.


----------



## Putshoesonthatmonster

https://www.hotukdeals.com/deals/mpow-t5m5-true-wireless-headphones-at-amazon-3329374

Amazing deal on mpow T5 m5 £16.99 Amazon lightening deal


----------



## clerkpalmer

APP returned.  Hiss free LP2 pro arriving tomorrow.  Still debating the merits of mw07 go. Would really like someone to nail ANC, sq plus sweat protection.


----------



## hifi80sman

I'm like a schoolchild.


----------



## rhsauer

hifi80sman said:


> I'm like a schoolchild.



You’ll really like these. I got a new pair without the hiss and am loving them.  The mic seems better too, although that may be down to a recent iOS update.


----------



## TK33

geoxile said:


> Based on further testing I found they only update the battery in increments of 10 instead of 2 like the other TWS earphones I tried. Not sure if that's a bug or not. So far I've gotten about 5 hours and have 3x percent left



My MW07 Go was only charging up to 92% (sometimes briefly showing 93% then going immediately back down to 92%) and I did not notice the increments of 10 but its possible that the Plus and Go versions behave differently.  I did not try to MW07+ so I can't comment on that.  I was using a Galaxy S9  (Android 9) as my main source in case that is relevant.  The battery issue plus some pairing issues I had were why I returned them and why I believe I had a defective unit.  In addition to the battery issue, they would not always pair when taken out of the case and it took me way too many tries to get it to pair with a second phone after disabling bluetooth on the first phone (I lost count but I probably spent half an hour trying to get it to pair).  I will probably give them a second shot eventually since I did like them once they were working.


----------



## geoxile

TK33 said:


> My MW07 Go was only charging up to 92% (sometimes briefly showing 93% then going immediately back down to 92%) and I did not notice the increments of 10 but its possible that the Plus and Go versions behave differently.  I did not try to MW07+ so I can't comment on that.  I was using a Galaxy S9  (Android 9) as my main source in case that is relevant.  The battery issue plus some pairing issues I had were why I returned them and why I believe I had a defective unit.  In addition to the battery issue, they would not always pair when taken out of the case and it took me way too many tries to get it to pair with a second phone after disabling bluetooth on the first phone (I lost count but I probably spent half an hour trying to get it to pair).  I will probably give them a second shot eventually since I did like them once they were working.


I'm using a galaxy s9 as well. There's something funky going on with these but so far I haven't had any other issues and the battery life is basically as advertised


----------



## WesennTony

My L2P arrived today. Firmware 1.09 so should be the new bunch. Sadly the hiss is still quite noticeable. Gotta replace them so see if any luck for the next pair.


----------



## ngd3

Got my pair of L2P just now. New version. Minor hissing noticeable but not bad at all.They are very bassy all around, flat setting sounds best so far. The big DD is very capable.

Quick judgement - worth the discounted price. Fun tuning that might be somewhat fatiguing, I'll update with more impressions soon


----------



## Subrising (Nov 12, 2019)

Hey guys! My cable TRN BT3 cable just died that I was using with my KZ ZS4 and I was wondering if it'd be worth getting the BT20s to replace it or just grab a TWS solution like the Mpow T5 instead. Been looking through the thread and that seems to be the better option for sub $100 for gym/life use but not sure if there is anything else.


----------



## voicemaster

Subrising said:


> Hey guys! My cable TRN BT3 cable just died that I was using with my KZ ZS4 and I was wondering if it'd be worth getting the BT20s to replace it or just grab a TWS solution like the Mpow T5 instead. Been looking through the thread and that seems to be the better option for sub $100 for gym/life use but not sure if there is anything else.



Get BT20S with KZ ZSX or CCA C12. The mpow T5 sounds pretty good tho or if your phone has built-in EQ, sabbat e12ultra is pretty good too. This is the EQ  I am using in my oneplus7.


----------



## Subrising

voicemaster said:


> Get BT20S with KZ ZSX or CCA C12. The mpow T5 sounds pretty good tho or if your phone has built-in EQ, sabbat e12ultra is pretty good too. This is the EQ  I am using in my oneplus7.



Wasn't looking at buying another pair of IEMs to use with the BT cable really cause the ZSX + the cable would be like $110 USD for me which is $160 AUD. Was more of thinking getting the cable and using it with the ZS4 or getting a TWS setup. My phone is a Pixel 2 XL as well. Cheers for the help and ideas as well man!


----------



## bronco1015

d3myz said:


> Yep, these are horrible. Some of the worst I've heard. there's like a giant 1k spike or something.
> If read the comments, i'm d3myz. Probably not my best moment, but I called him out. I'm tired of this guys Bull$hit. The guy is a tool. He told me he gets his stuff for free and he doesn't keep any of his TWS' even the ones he likes. WHAT? and then I asked him how he is able to review and recommend products when he's not doing side by side comparisons. Apparently by memory. Anyway, the dude is a hack that's paid by the Chinese to push products. He even thinks that amazon reviews on products are real. .


Wow. What a douche. Never been super high on video reviewers in general, mostly because i prefer to read reviews. never made it through one of his, but did try to watch a couple. Theres one video reviewer can't remember his name, but super funny guy, and a big fan of Blue Headphones. Discovered his reviews shortly after i bought the Blue Sattelites. i will watch his reviews from time to time.


----------



## voicemaster

bronco1015 said:


> Wow. What a douche. Never been super high on video reviewers in general, mostly because i prefer to read reviews. never made it through one of his, but did try to watch a couple. Theres one video reviewer can't remember his name, but super funny guy, and a big fan of Blue Headphones. Discovered his reviews shortly after i bought the Blue Sattelites. i will watch his reviews from time to time.



Who is this reviewer?


----------



## dweaver

First review of the Jabra 75T I have seen. It appears to sound better than the 65T according to the reviewer.


----------



## AudioNoob

Subrising said:


> Hey guys! My cable TRN BT3 cable just died that I was using with my KZ ZS4 and I was wondering if it'd be worth getting the BT20s to replace it or just grab a TWS solution like the Mpow T5 instead. Been looking through the thread and that seems to be the better option for sub $100 for gym/life use but not sure if there is anything else.


People also like bomaker sifi if you want something smaller


----------



## hifi80sman

rhsauer said:


> You’ll really like these. I got a new pair without the hiss and am loving them.  The mic seems better too, although that may be down to a recent iOS update.


I actually had the original version with horrible hissing.  They sounded great, except for the hissing, obviously.

Well...got the "new version" and well, they are actually the new version!  Very faint hiss, but nothing extreme and very typical with most TWS.  Very satisfied this time around AND these are a no-brainer with the promo code.  Even at full price, a solid recommendation.  SQ is among the best out there, regardless of price.


----------



## webvan

@voicemaster - Gamesky it seems. I agree, I had subscribed but unsubscribed, he goes through the motions, not very useful...



dweaver said:


> First review of the Jabra 75T I have seen. It appears to sound better than the 65T according to the reviewer.




Good catch. Decent review, can't see too many reasons to upgrade from the 65Ts, if anything the call quality is a tad inferior.


----------



## Subrising

AudioNoob said:


> People also like bomaker sifi if you want something smaller



Awesome! Taking a look at that one, the T5/M5 and the SSK BT03 now.


----------



## AudioNoob

Subrising said:


> Awesome! Taking a look at that one, the T5/M5 and the SSK BT03 now.


Kissral r18 is the same as ssk if you are going to buy from amazon


----------



## bronco1015

hifi80sman said:


> Took a chance on the LP2 "new version" with the promo code from my man Jimmy.  Should receive today and we shall see!


my momentum case broke last week, and just gonna deal with it because i'm not paying $107 for a new case. instead, i just bought the LP2 Pro's w jimmy's promo code and the mavin AirXR. Both arriving tomorrow.


----------



## bronco1015 (Nov 12, 2019)

voicemaster said:


> Who is this reviewer?


d3myz is refering to Gamesky, and my response to his post was a reply about that reviewer. The video reviewer i mentioned i enjoy watching from time to time is Flossy Carter.


----------



## hifi80sman

bronco1015 said:


> d3myz is refering to Gamesky, and my response to his post was a reply about that reviewer. The video reviewer i mentioned i enjoy watching from time to time is Flossy Carter.


Flossy is very entertaining, but not really someone to watch for audiophile recommendations.  He listens to everything at max volume, so, you know, science ‘n all.


----------



## Caipirina

Subrising said:


> Hey guys! My cable TRN BT3 cable just died that I was using with my KZ ZS4 and I was wondering if it'd be worth getting the BT20s to replace it or just grab a TWS solution like the Mpow T5 instead. Been looking through the thread and that seems to be the better option for sub $100 for gym/life use but not sure if there is anything else.


As much as I love the TRN BT20 as a solution for TWS-ing my IEMs, I would not wear those to the gym ... for that i find them a bit bulky (and in my case, i doubt they would survive my sweat)


----------



## Caipirina

AudioNoob said:


> Kissral r18 is the same as ssk if you are going to buy from amazon



Didn't someone just recently say the Kissral sound quite different / very low on bass? Might want to do a search. I can only confirm that SSK ufo sounds the same as the much lauded Anbes 359, and I recommend those a lot


----------



## Subrising

Caipirina said:


> Didn't someone just recently say the Kissral sound quite different / very low on bass? Might want to do a search. I can only confirm that SSK ufo sounds the same as the much lauded Anbes 359, and I recommend those a lot



Cheers for the help bro! Narrowed it down to that SSK for $44 AUD from AliExpress with longer postage or a Mpow T5 (I think it'd the older model without upgraded software) for $69 AUD with fast postage on eBay. Guess it's just time to decide if I want to wait and save money or not aha!


----------



## minion1990

bronco1015 said:


> d3myz is refering to Gamesky, and my response to his post was a reply about that reviewer. The video reviewer i mentioned i enjoy watching from time to time is Flossy Carter.



The thing I like about gamesky is the mic tests


----------



## onree

Strangely enough, the MPOW T5 are back on the US Amazon site.


----------



## actorlife

Hi dudes! Anyone getting the TRN T200? I'd like someone to compare them to the Anbes/SSK. For 33 $ale they look intriguing. Merci.


----------



## bronco1015

hifi80sman said:


> Flossy is very entertaining, but not really someone to watch for audiophile recommendations.  He listens to everything at max volume, so, you know, science ‘n all.


Since Tyle retired, is there any video reviewer to watch for audiophile recommendations?


----------



## cwill

Caipirina said:


> Didn't someone just recently say the Kissral sound quite different / very low on bass? Might want to do a search. I can only confirm that SSK ufo sounds the same as the much lauded Anbes 359, and I recommend those a lot


That was me. They are way different when it comes to bass.


----------



## galangerz

minion1990 said:


> The thing I like about gamesky is the mic tests


Check Mike Wat's tests if you're ever interested in the TWS he's come across. I find them to be more accurate than Gamesky


----------



## Creamie

Got L2P in just now, version 1.09 firmware.

Hiss is pretty bad. Going to have to return them, not sure if I want to try again on a different pair or not.


----------



## Blueshound24

rhsauer said:


> I sent the MW07+ back because I have only Apple devices and the MW07+ don’t support AAC.  I can’t really speak to the sound of the MW07+ because I was only able to connect them via SBC and I don’t think that codec allowed the earphones to show their full sonic capabilities.  I think M&D misstepped by not including AAC.
> 
> M&D mentioned that they expected to enable AAC through a firmware update, but they didn’t know the timing, or whether the firmware would be able to be updated without sending the earphones back to the manufacturer.  If/when they do update the MW07+ to include AAC, I may repurchase them.  Having said that, there are several other TWEs with better ANC that have recently hit the market (like the APPs and the Echo Buds), so the MW07+ are a harder sell now.  Every earphone has its moment, I guess — and it’s a tough market.
> 
> ...




The L2P's are getting a lot of good comments. Are you saying the L2P is even better than the MW07, and in what way? Or are your comments somewhat biased because you are "irked" about the lack of your Apple codec? I have Android so that wouldn't concern me.


----------



## mjb152

Creamie said:


> Got L2P in just now, version 1.09 firmware.
> 
> Hiss is pretty bad. Going to have to return them, not sure if I want to try again on a different pair or not.


Mine were 1.09 as well, maybe I got lucky but no hiss


----------



## Blueshound24 (Nov 12, 2019)

Caipirina said:


> As much as I love the TRN BT20 as a solution for TWS-ing my IEMs, I would not wear those to the gym ... for that i find them a bit bulky (and in my case, i doubt they would survive my sweat)




OT, but here's another option for your wired IEM's, and maybe better since coming from a high end cable maker? And it is newly updated making them a bit less bulky.
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/int...le-with-iems-and-full-size-headphones.918958/


----------



## mjb152

And I finally worked out how to get them in and out of the case , the anbes case was pure guess work


----------



## Daniel Gur

Best price I get buy the MPOW T5's for? anyone has coupons?


----------



## mattedialdoc

actorlife said:


> Hi dudes! Anyone getting the TRN T200? I'd like someone to compare them to the Anbes/SSK. For 33 $ale they look intriguing. Merci.



https://www.scarbir.com/tws/trn-t200-review

There are better options


----------



## rhsauer (Nov 12, 2019)

Blueshound24 said:


> The L2P's are getting a lot of good comments. Are you saying the L2P is even better than the MW07, and in what way? Or are your comments somewhat biased because you are "irked" about the lack of your Apple codec? I have Android so that wouldn't concern me.



I’m saying that since I only have Apple devices I could only listen to the MW07+ via SBC, which is possibly not a fair representation of how good those ‘phones can sound — so I don’t think it would be meaningful for me to compare them directly to the L2Ps.  If you want a meaningful/fair comparison, it would be better ask someone with an Android phone who has both sets of earphones.


----------



## BobJS

rhsauer said:


> I’m saying that since I only have Apple devices I could only listen to the MW07+ via SBC, which is possibly not a fair representation of how good those ‘phones can sound — so I don’t think it would be meaningful for me to compare them directly to the L2Ps.  If you want a meaningful/fair comparison, it would be better ask someone with and Android phone who has both sets of earphones.



That would be me.  The L2ps are very good, but the MW07+ over aptx in Android is the best wireless I have heard.


----------



## dwil

webvan said:


> @voicemaster - Gamesky it seems. I agree, I had subscribed but unsubscribed, he goes through the motions, not very useful...
> 
> 
> 
> Good catch. Decent review, can't see too many reasons to upgrade from the 65Ts, if anything the call quality is a tad inferior.



Yeah, gamesky is overall a terrible reviewer of sound quality. Literally every other iem, he starts saying meaningless stuff like "these are the most dynamic set yet" or "they boosted the bass a ton, but they also boosted the mids and the trebles to bring it all level". (yes, he says "trebles"). Its like he's going through the same meaningless script.

His reviews are still (unfortunately) one of the best sources of information, he records good b-roll footage etc, he demonstrates fit and mic quality etc very well. He's a good enough youtuber that unfortunately he's going to become the default source of information for tws chifi iems for normies.

if you know how to parse through the bull, you can still get a basic idea of some aspects of the sound (mainly whether or not there is harshness, whether or not the iem lacks bass extension).

Its still disappointing.... I wish we had our very own "crinacle" for the tws iem world.


----------



## AudioNoob

Ted Presley said:


> I'm using it, what's your concern? I find it's good for the price.
> 
> And I don't think I will use any TWS for 5 years, esp. for 20 bucks one.....


Does it have voice announcements like connecting etc? Is the light bright? Have you had a chance to compare the sound to mpow m5 or sifi?


----------



## clerkpalmer

Blueshound24 said:


> OT, but here's another option for your wired IEM's, and maybe better since coming from a high end cable maker? And it is newly updated making them a bit less bulky.
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/int...le-with-iems-and-full-size-headphones.918958/



Nice. Ldac too. But that price is ridiculous for a BT cable. ES100 does LDAC for like 80 bucks.


----------



## hifi80sman

minion1990 said:


> The thing I like about gamesky is the mic tests


The one thing I wonder, however, is if the mic test is just over the voice recorder on the phone _*OR *_if it's actually a phone call to another device that's being recorded from that device.  The performance will differ in each of those situations.  Generally speaking, mic quality over the the voice recorder will be better than mic quality over an actual call.

Best thing to do is recorder yourself over the voice recorded, then compare that with a call to yourself (leave yourself a voice message).


----------



## XGUGU

bronco1015 said:


> Since Tyle retired, is there any video reviewer to watch for audiophile recommendations?


I follow about 15 different headphones reviewers. They all are good on some areas and kind of lack on other. I like about Gamesky his dedication to bring us cheap bud reviews. Not because he does that mean he is milking Chinese brands. That doesn't even work, specially on YT. He was the fist reviewer to call the APP by what really believes they actually are (stay away from reviews fro MaxTech, Brian Tong, UraverageConsumer and any other YTber that only sticks to the #teampopular only for views). They Also hurt startups  and competition badly. Anybody who knows YT and their algorithm wouldn't want to be away from apple, samsung etc... as no other brand generates them as much money, but there dies the quality and objectivity.   
Now for The most objective reviewer that understand audio 
this is my favourite https://www.youtube.com/user/HiFiHeadphones


----------



## AudioNoob

hifi80sman said:


> The one thing I wonder, however, is if the mic test is just over the voice recorder on the phone _*OR *_if it's actually a phone call to another device that's being recorded from that device.  The performance will differ in each of those situations.  Generally speaking, mic quality over the the voice recorder will be better than mic quality over an actual call.
> 
> Best thing to do is recorder yourself over the voice recorded, then compare that with a call to yourself (leave yourself a voice message).


Too many variable with that situation that you cannot monitor in terms of signal quality, cell tower conditions, etc. as the networks have their own noise reduction and compression algorithms. Recording to the device is much more consistent as a point of comparison between different earphones, though it will differ from eventual phone calls.


----------



## hifi80sman

bronco1015 said:


> Since Tyle retired, is there any video reviewer to watch for audiophile recommendations?


Tyll was great, but I did have some issues with his strong budget recommendation for the Ausdom M05, which was complete trash.  I couldn't even EQ that to anything enjoyable.  Sooo muffled...

I mean, I don't always agree with Jimmy (Jim's Review Room), but I think he keeps it pretty straight.  I also find GYMCADDY to be solid.  He seems to keep things honest.  I like EBPMAN as well.


----------



## webvan

That new guy "Tech Trends" is interesting with his actual samples that you can listen to, it's rare in general and even rarer for IEMs, for ANC comparisons it's priceless : https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCQ4rGya_Jh7wPl35NQOIZ0A/videos


----------



## HiFlight

actorlife said:


> Hi dudes! Anyone getting the TRN T200? I'd like someone to compare them to the Anbes/SSK. For 33 $ale they look intriguing. Merci.


I found them to have good fit, decent bass but strident highs with unpleasant sibilance.
Not to my liking, but YMMV.


----------



## pokenguyen

I just test Sony WF1000XM3, Sennheiser True Wireless and MW07, and the MW07 just destroyed Sennheiser, while Sony is a step down from MW07. With Sony, the amazing bass really make the sound more musical, while Sennheiser more focus on vocal. The MW07 vocal and bass are so good, vocal is smoother than Sony, and more musical than Sennheiser. The soundstage of Sony is higher and more 3D than Sennheiser, while Sennheiser wins in width. The MW07 soundstage just destroyed them all.

However, I can see Sennheiser is suitable for vocal only lover, the forward vocal is really attractive and detail, but you lack a lot of whistle and bells in MW07. 

About the comfort, Sennheiser wins but Sony and MW07 are not bad, the difference in SQ is totally too much that I don’t care much.

I think I can replace my old IE80 and go full wireless with MW07. The sound is just so good, and so satisfying to me. I had a chance to buy MW07 Go for 140€, so MW07 Plus is not worthy 2x the price for me, but I may buy it for a discount, or look for an upgrade from MasterDynamic next year.


----------



## tma6

Just ordered the Jabra Elite 75t through the early sale going on right now at Best Buy. They should be here by Thursday! Early reviews seem promising. Will be doing a full review and direct comparison with the Airpods Pro and MW07 (old version and what I remember from the Plus version). Curious to see if they make me want to return my APPs loll.


----------



## hifi80sman

Blueshound24 said:


> The L2P's are getting a lot of good comments. Are you saying the L2P is even better than the MW07, and in what way? Or are your comments somewhat biased because you are "irked" about the lack of your Apple codec? I have Android so that wouldn't concern me.


I have the original MW07 (which by almost all accounts sound the same as the Plus version) and the L2P.  SQ alone, they are very close.  There is a bit more precision with the L2P, which is no surprise given the Knowles BA.  The MW07 has a bit more warmth and the mids are a little more forward when compared to the L2P.  Bass sounds a little cleaner on the L2P.  For me, comfort is about the same.  Mic for calls better on the L2P.


----------



## pokenguyen

hifi80sman said:


> I have the original MW07 (which by almost all accounts sound the same as the Plus version) and the L2P.  SQ alone, they are very close.  There is a bit more precision with the L2P, which is no surprise given the Knowles BA.  The MW07 has a bit more warmth and the mids are a little more forward when compared to the L2P.  Bass sounds a little cleaner on the L2P.  For me, comfort is about the same.  Mic for calls better on the L2P.


Damn, you made me want to try these L2P, because MW07 is currently my champion after trying other hyped TWS. I hope Amazon won’t ban me because of returning too much.

After hearing Sennheiser, I don’t think MW07 has forward vocal at all, so maybe L2P has very recessed vocal.


----------



## jasaero (Nov 12, 2019)

hifi80sman said:


> I actually had the original version with horrible hissing.  They sounded great, except for the hissing, obviously.
> 
> Well...got the "new version" and well, they are actually the new version!  Very faint hiss, but nothing extreme and very typical with most TWS.  Very satisfied this time around AND these are a no-brainer with the promo code.  Even at full price, a solid recommendation.  SQ is among the best out there, regardless of price.



Cool, thanks for the Promo...it worked direct from Anker/Soundcore direct also.  Hopefully I find these worth the $120.  I have the MW07+, Sony WF-1000XM3, and Sennheiser MTW right now from Best Buy to evaluate if am OK keeping any of the $200+ options that interest me.  So far suspect I will return all.  MW07+ sounds really nice and like controls, but at $300 the SQ, noise cancelling and ambient mode aren't far enough over these Shanling to justify the dosh.  Really the Shanling aren't far off when EQed some.  I suspect there is some good DSP something going on with the MW07+ and something about how they go in your ear that give them a more open sound than these others I am checking.  The sony are just super uncomfortable for me.  Hoping Anker is better.  Sony are probably near parity with the Shanling EQed once I match response....seems to depend on song and music type which I prefer.  The Sennheiser are just super uncomfortable and something about them seems cheap for the price...while to me being a bit boomy somehow.  The MW07+ at least seem premium built in all ways.  I will say the MW07+ might be a bit to sharp on the highs with some music for me.  So by not means perfect for $300.  Definitely the MW07+ has a more universally great sound vs the Shanling though.  I can find some music that exposes weakness of the shanling easier where it sounds ever so slightly like under water vs the MW07 which is more like using open back cans almost and sorta rare in IEM.  Hopefully the app and such with the Soundcore get me exactly what I am after and only are a bit more than the shanling.  I can do without Ambient if it's only going to be halfazzed anyhow.  The Sony it's really nice setup, but biggest issue with them was fit and also the controls on the headset are minimal and seemed to often beep and then not do what they were supposed to.  Seems pretty jacked up for the price when the shanlings just work with the touch controls.


----------



## pokenguyen

jasaero said:


> Cool, thanks for the Promo...it worked direct from Anker/Soundcore direct also.  Hopefully I find these worth the $120.  I have the MW07+, Sony WF-1000XM3, and Sennheiser MTW right now from Best Buy to evaluate if am OK keeping any of the $200+ options that interest me.  So far suspect I will return all.  MW07+ sounds really nice and like controls, but at $300 the SQ, noise cancelling and ambient mode aren't far enough over these Shanling to justify the dosh.  Really the Shanling aren't far off when EQed some.  I suspect there is some good DSP something going on with the MW07+ and something about how they go in your ear that give them a more open sound than these others I am checking.  The sony are just super uncomfortable for me.  Hoping Anker is better.  Sony are probably near parity with the Shanling EQed once I match response....seems to depend on song and music type which I prefer.  The Sennheiser are just super uncomfortable and something about them seems cheap for the price...while to me being a bit boomy somehow.  The MW07+ at least seem premium built in all ways.  I will say the MW07+ might be a bit to sharp on the highs with some music for me.  So by not means perfect for $300.  Hopefully the app and such with the Soundcore get me exactly what I am after and only are a bit more than the shanling.  I can do without Ambient if it's only going to be halfazzed anyhow.  The Sony it's really nice setup, but biggest issue with them was fit and also the controls on the headset are minimal and seemed to often beep and then not do what they were supposed to.  Seems pretty jacked up for the price when the shanlings just work with the touch controls.


It sounds strange, I’m extremely sensitive to High and always go with Warm, recessed high headphones. I don’t have any problem with MW07 + Spinfit CP360. I tried with Spiral Dot, but it makes MW07 brighter to me.


----------



## hifi80sman

pokenguyen said:


> Damn, you made me want to try these L2P, because MW07 is currently my champion after trying other hyped TWS. I hope Amazon won’t ban me because of returning too much.
> 
> After hearing Sennheiser, I don’t think MW07 has forward vocal at all, so maybe L2P has very recessed vocal.


Comparison of the mids was in the context those 2 units only, but generally speaking, the mids are not forward on the MW07.  The good thing about the L2P is that there are 22 presets, and most find the "Piano" preset to be very good.

My brief comparison was based solely on out-of-the-box sound.


----------



## pokenguyen

hifi80sman said:


> Comparison of the mids was in the context those 2 units only, but generally speaking, the mids are not forward on the MW07.  The good thing about the L2P is that there are 22 presets, and most find the "Piano" preset to be very good.
> 
> My brief comparison was based solely on out-of-the-box sound.


Ok, I just ordered a used pair from Amazon. I hope this is the last TWS I need to buy.


----------



## actorlife

HiFlight said:


> I found them to have good fit, decent bass but strident highs with unpleasant sibilance.
> Not to my liking, but YMMV.


OH no sibilance is my enemy. Thanks HiFlight!


----------



## jasaero (Nov 12, 2019)

pokenguyen said:


> It sounds strange, I’m extremely sensitive to High and always go with Warm, recessed high headphones. I don’t have any problem with MW07 + Spinfit CP360. I tried with Spiral Dot, but it makes MW07 brighter to me.



It's not too bright at all.  It's just lots of cymbal crashes and such in some songs can become too harsh for my ears.  I suspect they are slightly over emphasized in some what to get the open effect.  Overall can sound way better in music the Shanlings struggle with.  Like some distorted electric guitars come across way more proper on the MW07+.  So I can sorta see many finding the price totally acceptable.  Oh an this is stock MW07+ Tips and at higher volume than I can get the Shanling.  Would be curious how much of the Shanling weakness is in the AAC vs AptX.  It's weakness do seem like what you often get from compression related things.


----------



## hifi80sman

pokenguyen said:


> Ok, I just ordered a used pair from Amazon. I hope this is the last TWS I need to buy.


I'd just caution you that some of the older used pairs may have the hissing issue.  Just a heads up.


----------



## pokenguyen

jasaero said:


> It's not too bright at all.  It's just lots of cymbal crashes and such in some songs can become too harsh for my ears.  I suspect they are slightly over emphasized in some what to get the open effect.  Overall can sound way better in music the Shanlings struggle with.  Like some distorted electric guitars come across way more proper on the MW07+.  So I can sorta see many finding the price totally acceptable.  Oh an this is stock MW07+ Tips and at higher volume than I can get the Shanling.  Would be curious how much of the Shanling weakness is in the AAC vs AptX.  It's weakness do seem like what you often get from compression related things.


Actually what you described is what I avoid in all of my phones and speakers, I can’t stand them at all. Can you give me some songs where those are more prominent? I haven’t tried stock tips but looks like CP360 thick silicon dampens the sound of MW07 to me.


----------



## pokenguyen

hifi80sman said:


> I'd just caution you that some of the older used pairs may have the hissing issue.  Just a heads up.


Thanks for caution, I will ignore the hissing and see if I like them more than MW07 before ordering a new pair.


----------



## Blueshound24 (Nov 12, 2019)

clerkpalmer said:


> Nice. Ldac too. But that price is ridiculous for a BT cable. ES100 does LDAC for like 80 bucks.



Agreed.
And with PS you would be paying for a boutique cable as well. That might matter if you were a cable believer, and to them who are, it may be worth it.

IMO not to me.


----------



## LordToneeus

tma6 said:


> Just ordered the Jabra Elite 75t through the early sale going on right now at Best Buy. They should be here by Thursday! Early reviews seem promising. Will be doing a full review and direct comparison with the Airpods Pro and MW07 (old version and what I remember from the Plus version). Curious to see if they make me want to return my APPs loll.



Anxious to hear what you think!


----------



## TK33

jasaero said:


> It's not too bright at all.  It's just lots of cymbal crashes and such in some songs can become too harsh for my ears.  I suspect they are slightly over emphasized in some what to get the open effect.  Overall can sound way better in music the Shanlings struggle with.  Like some distorted electric guitars come across way more proper on the MW07+.  So I can sorta see many finding the price totally acceptable.  Oh an this is stock MW07+ Tips and at higher volume than I can get the Shanling.  Would be curious how much of the Shanling weakness is in the AAC vs AptX.  It's weakness do seem like what you often get from compression related things.



I had a similar reaction to the sound of the MW07 Go as you did with the MW07+.  I didn't think it was overly bright but also not what I would call mid-forward.  The highs were more emphasized than I was used to coming from more warmer sounding IEMs (which I enjoy but others may find "boring").  While listening to some songs, I did wish M&D had included an app with an EQ.  I did think the SQ was excellent however and was (and still am) after a different sound signature than what I have in my Senn MTWs to complement them.  Probably just differences in taste and styles of music.


----------



## Blueshound24

pokenguyen said:


> Ok, I just ordered a used pair from Amazon. *I hope this is the last TWS I need to buy*.




LOL! In that case, you better quit reading this thread then. And maybe even stay off Head-Fi completely! 

PS: Sorry about your wallet.


----------



## pokenguyen

Blueshound24 said:


> LOL! In that case, you better quit reading this thread then. And maybe even stay off Head-Fi completely!
> 
> PS: Sorry about your wallet.


The forum destroyed my wallets while hunting for IEM (finally settle down with IE80). Only one more tws, I don’t think there are any better one to try.


----------



## AudioNoob (Nov 12, 2019)

cwill said:


> That was me. They are way different when it comes to bass.


That's confusing. Others noted they were the same. How are they different? Were you able to compare with the same tips over the same source?

does anyone have a stemmed suggestion under 50 ?


----------



## AllenWalker

Just received my Shanling MTW100 today. My first TWS as I want to use them for workout or walking during winter. Surprised with the clarity and soundstage as they are pretty good for the price I am paying. Definitely will take years for them to match very good wired IEM but I can see good prospect in them being on par in the future. Don't really care about sound quality over convenience that much when getting older...


----------



## cwill

AudioNoob said:


> That's confusing. Others noted they were the same. How are they different? Were you able to compare with the same tips over the same source?
> 
> does anyone have a stemmed suggestion under 50 ?


They're different in that the SSK has twice the amount of bass the Kissral has. Same tips, same audio source.


----------



## AudioNoob

cwill said:


> They're different in that the SSK has twice the amount of bass the Kissral has. Same tips, same audio source.


Yikes, strange that they are posted as interchangeable in earlier pages.

Any stemmed suggestions? Anybody tried the 'upgraded' boltune BT-BH020 or the taotronics/dudios/soforth generic rebrands?


----------



## clerkpalmer

Replacement anker LP2 arrived.  Hiss is substantially improved. Same great sound.


----------



## jasaero

pokenguyen said:


> Actually what you described is what I avoid in all of my phones and speakers, I can’t stand them at all. Can you give me some songs where those are more prominent? I haven’t tried stock tips but looks like CP360 thick silicon dampens the sound of MW07 to me.



Was a bit harsh with cymbals and such probably a bit over emphasized somehow in Tool "The Patient".  Trying CP360 now, seems similar, maybe tiny bit less harsh.  It's definitely a more accurate sound than I get from Shanling MTW100 and usually more enjoyable than Shanling also, but some songs like this one it can over do some of the high frequency realm and make them harsh.  Almost suspect it's not straight tuning and something with a DSP to get the open sound these have not working well with that song and making it harsh.


----------



## hifi80sman

clerkpalmer said:


> Replacement anker LP2 arrived.  Hiss is substantially improved. Same great sound.


@clerkpalmer, is the far right light on the case dimmer than the 2 to the left?  Mine is.  It's bothering me.


----------



## jasaero

TK33 said:


> I had a similar reaction to the sound of the MW07 Go as you did with the MW07+.  I didn't think it was overly bright but also not what I would call mid-forward.  The highs were more emphasized than I was used to coming from more warmer sounding IEMs (which I enjoy but others may find "boring").  While listening to some songs, I did wish M&D had included an app with an EQ.  I did think the SQ was excellent however and was (and still am) after a different sound signature than what I have in my Senn MTWs to complement them.  Probably just differences in taste and styles of music.



Yeah, I like them in many ways.  More premium overall and more comfortable than many and sound real good.  And even physical button UI with mode on right and volume up/down on left is good.  My big issue is that at $300 it needs all of that AND control app to try and calm the highs a bit, killer noise cancelling and adjustable ambient modes for me to pay I think.  I'd probably spend $300 for it over the $250 Sen MTW though as those just don't fit me comfortably.


----------



## clerkpalmer

Blueshound24 said:


> Agreed.
> And with PS you would be paying for a boutique cable as well. That might matter if you were a cable believer, and to them who are, it may be worth it.
> IMO not.


Snake oil.


----------



## clerkpalmer

hifi80sman said:


> @clerkpalmer, is the far right light on the case dimmer than the 2 to the left?  Mine is.  It's bothering me.


Its charging but not that I can tell.


----------



## FYLegend

Either different batches have different tunings for people aren't perceiving the differences. Coolhere UFO had awful driver matching and a bright tuning, while BE30 Air had a flat tuning but again poor driver matching (this time more mids and treble on the left). I'm wondering if any Aliexpress seller has released the AptX version yet.

I'm looking for another AptX + USB-C + Wireless charging combo (latter is preferable but optional), but preferably one with more mids and treble detail than the Sabbat E12 Ultra, which I found reasonable except for that poor driver matching. I was set to get Wavefun Xpods 3T until I read some comments saying the originals were muddy or "flat". Same with the Whizzer B6 being said to have more bass emphasis.


----------



## jasaero

FYLegend said:


> Either different batches have different tunings for people aren't perceiving the differences. Coolhere UFO had awful driver matching and a bright tuning, while BE30 Air had a flat tuning but again poor driver matching (this time more mids and treble on the left). I'm wondering if any Aliexpress seller has released the AptX version yet.
> 
> I'm looking for another AptX + USB-C + Wireless charging combo (latter is preferable but optional), but preferably one with more mids and treble detail than the Sabbat E12 Ultra, which I found reasonable except for that poor driver matching. I was set to get Wavefun Xpods 3T until I read some comments saying the originals were muddy or "flat". Same with the Whizzer B6 being said to have more bass emphasis.



My ear holes are just different enough I can't really gauge driver matching!  haha.  Use medium sized tips in left and large in right with lots of them just to get it close.  Others I can use large in both and it still matches OK, but not perfect.  Haha.


----------



## pokenguyen

jasaero said:


> Was a bit harsh with cymbals and such probably a bit over emphasized somehow in Tool "The Patient".  Trying CP360 now, seems similar, maybe tiny bit less harsh.  It's definitely a more accurate sound than I get from Shanling MTW100 and usually more enjoyable than Shanling also, but some songs like this one it can over do some of the high frequency realm and make them harsh.  Almost suspect it's not straight tuning and something with a DSP to get the open sound these have not working well with that song and making it harsh.


I’m hearing “The Patient” now, the cymbals don’t sound harsh to me at all, they sound a bit dampened to me and not bothering much. Weird. 

Anyway, I will compare to L2P when they arrive.


----------



## jasaero

pokenguyen said:


> I’m hearing “The Patient” now, the cymbals don’t sound harsh to me at all, they sound a bit dampened to me and not bothering much. Weird.
> 
> Anyway, I will compare to L2P when they arrive.



Haha.  Yeah, we all have different senses/sensitivities.  It sounds mostly proper, but I am somewhat with Flossy Carter in that they don't get super loud and even though the rest of the tracks I listen to at full volume don't seem harsh, but when there is a built up thing with lots of cymbals like that it gets harsh for me even though the rest isn't too loud.  I can turn down a few notches and it's fine and no longer harsh...but sort of recesses the rest more than I would prefer.  Although this aspect seems to make like Hotel California seem much more open and overall preferable on the MW07+ as it somehow doesn't become harsh there and can be played cranked with less harshness.  I can listen, it's just not comfortable and then when I reduce volume I find some of the other spectrum of the sound gets recessed too much.  I think the Shanling is somewhat less accurate with things sounding less detailed and won't even get as loud, but seemingly somewhat more balanced at this lower max volume so more comfortable.  I'd still say overall the MW07+ has a better sound...it's just closer to what I get from open back cans...while the Shanling you still know you have IEMs making the sound...even though they are a bit more comfortable and not obviously sitting in your ears.  The MW07+ are the most comfortable of the Sony/Senn/MD group I purchased to demo though by far....just the Shanling are more comforable yet.


----------



## srinivasvignesh

Enabled Dolby Atmos on Note 10+ with MW07+. And wow, does it make it fun watching Netflix! Loudness problems are really addressed too..  MW07+ growing on me more and more everyday.


----------



## geoxile

jasaero said:


> Was a bit harsh with cymbals and such probably a bit over emphasized somehow in Tool "The Patient".  Trying CP360 now, seems similar, maybe tiny bit less harsh.  It's definitely a more accurate sound than I get from Shanling MTW100 and usually more enjoyable than Shanling also, but some songs like this one it can over do some of the high frequency realm and make them harsh.  Almost suspect it's not straight tuning and something with a DSP to get the open sound these have not working well with that song and making it harsh.


If you have youtube music try the tube amp emulation feature under the EQ settings. Masks that harshness and makes the sound more mellow


----------



## icybrizz

FYLegend said:


> Either different batches have different tunings for people aren't perceiving the differences. Coolhere UFO had awful driver matching and a bright tuning, while BE30 Air had a flat tuning but again poor driver matching (this time more mids and treble on the left). I'm wondering if any Aliexpress seller has released the AptX version yet.
> 
> I'm looking for another AptX + USB-C + Wireless charging combo (latter is preferable but optional), but preferably one with more mids and treble detail than the Sabbat E12 Ultra, which I found reasonable except for that poor driver matching. I was set to get Wavefun Xpods 3T until I read some comments saying the originals were muddy or "flat". Same with the Whizzer B6 being said to have more bass emphasis.



Have been lurking the thread for a couple of days since I was looking for tws with similar criteria too, ended up ordering shanling mtw100. It seems to fits my requirements very well, except no AptX, but it still receive a high praise from reviewers in terms of connectivity and SQ. Plus it has a pass through mode, making it suitable to be worn in office/public environment, wireless charging, good batterylife and ipx7 rating too.. and BA drivers for that sweet2 clarity and mids.. seems so perfect Can't wait for it to arrive.


----------



## Subrising

Does anyone know if the older version of the Mpow T5 also supports Android 9.0? The one I'm currently looking at doesn't say if it's the newer upgraded M5 version so I'm not 100% sure if it will work.


----------



## AudioNoob (Nov 12, 2019)

Subrising said:


> Does anyone know if the older version of the Mpow T5 also supports Android 9.0? The one I'm currently looking at doesn't say if it's the newer upgraded M5 version so I'm not 100% sure if it will work.


There shouldn't be an OS limitation on bluetooth earphones, they've been supported quite a while.

Got an update from earfun, they are going to fix the button interface so that it is more intuitive in a minor upgrade, also introducing solo connections. It still won't have aptx as they didn't think they could keep the cost low, they are making another earbud that will have that later in 2020

I'm curious about the tronsmart spunky beat still but haven't heard back from the person here who had them about sound quality and such


----------



## TK33

Any rumors on whether Sennheiser is coming out with an update to the MTW? I noticed they've been pretty heavily discounted on Amazon (US) recently.  Saw it for $205 the other day and is currently at $216.  Really wish B&W would stop messing around with neckbands and just go true wireless already.


----------



## go0gle

I got my airpod pros a few days ago and I've been testing vs the lp2. 

Focusing on SQ alone, and nothing else, I will just use the title of this thread as a segway, and say that when it comes to the airpod pros, we are certainly not there yet. 

If I wanted to enjoy my music fully, I would have to reach for one of my wired headsets, every time, no exceptions.

When it comes to the lp2 however, I could say that for me personally, it breaches that gap and I don't feel the need to put a wired headphone on to fully enjoy my music. Even if it doesn't fully breach the gap, its a very solid bridge that I am very comfortable walking on. 


Now, excluding sound quality (and battery life), the Apple product is better at everything else. Design, fit, comfort, microphones, ANC, sound pass trough... just everyday usability in general is superior.  


If we could have the airpods for factor and functionality, combined with whatever magic anker put inside the lp2, we would have a winner. Considering the pace of development in the segment, we might not be that far off.


----------



## cwill

So no one's having random disconnects and trouble even connecting with the SSK? Do I just have a faulty unit? None of my TWS have ever done this. It's happening all the time.


----------



## dweaver

webvan said:


> @voicemaster - Gamesky it seems. I agree, I had subscribed but unsubscribed, he goes through the motions, not very useful...
> 
> 
> 
> Good catch. Decent review, can't see too many reasons to upgrade from the 65Ts, if anything the call quality is a tad inferior.



Not sure who Gamesky is. This reviewer is a guy called Mike Wat. He does good microphone tests. His audio portion OK but not super detailed though.


----------



## jasaero

cwill said:


> So no one's having random disconnects and trouble even connecting with the SSK? Do I just have a faulty unit? None of my TWS have ever done this. It's happening all the time.


I hadn't notices this much.  It seems I did get it at some locations, but not others and only like second or 2 drop outs very randomly.  Other places it is rock solid.  Just something about other wireless stuff interfering in area was my impression.


----------



## cwill

jasaero said:


> I hadn't notices this much.  It seems I did get it at some locations, but not others and only like second or 2 drop outs very randomly.  Other places it is rock solid.  Just something about other wireless stuff interfering in area was my impression.


Yeah, that's not what this is at all. They must be defective. It actually loses connection for no reason. Not just a skip in the music.


----------



## X-Nemesis

Are the MPOW M20's an upgrade from the M5's and has anyone tried them yet?  These companies pump out a newer TWS every few days it seems, Dang!!

https://www.amazon.com/Mpow-Bluetoo...s-Earphones/dp/B07ZP7NJB5/ref=dp_ob_title_wld


----------



## bronco1015

XGUGU said:


> I follow about 15 different headphones reviewers. They all are good on some areas and kind of lack on other. I like about Gamesky his dedication to bring us cheap bud reviews. Not because he does that mean he is milking Chinese brands. That doesn't even work, specially on YT. He was the fist reviewer to call the APP by what really believes they actually are (stay away from reviews fro MaxTech, Brian Tong, UraverageConsumer and any other YTber that only sticks to the #teampopular only for views). They Also hurt startups  and competition badly. Anybody who knows YT and their algorithm wouldn't want to be away from apple, samsung etc... as no other brand generates them as much money, but there dies the quality and objectivity.
> Now for The most objective reviewer that understand audio
> this is my favourite https://www.youtube.com/user/HiFiHeadphones


Thanks for the recommendation, i watched his review of the tevi vs senn MTW, and while i didn't totally agree or totally disagree with some of his comparisons between the 2, I don't think the tevi is quite as good as he makes it out to be for the price. That said, even though i did pay for it and i have been able to EQ a sound i really like out of the MTWs, i can't deny those aren't worth $300. I do wish he were a little mor personable, but i will keep checking out his channel. Thanks again, one never can have to many good resources to turn to.


----------



## bronco1015

hifi80sman said:


> Tyll was great, but I did have some issues with his strong budget recommendation for the Ausdom M05, which was complete trash.  I couldn't even EQ that to anything enjoyable.  Sooo muffled...
> 
> I mean, I don't always agree with Jimmy (Jim's Review Room), but I think he keeps it pretty straight.  I also find GYMCADDY to be solid.  He seems to keep things honest.  I like EBPMAN as well.


Awesome Thanks. Yeah i did think Tyll was over the top on some products, E.G. the Focal Crackle...i mean Elear. i waited for that thing to go on sale, and spent so much time reading reviews, and thinking it would be the perfect 1B to my HD 800S, but when it arrived; i plugged it straight into my V20 to see if a phone really could drive it well, and the headphone crackled! What a complete piece of garbage. not bitter at all! haha. To get back on topic, and discuss products actually worth talking about, my Shanling MTW100BA are pretty fantastic! I'm keeping them. Sound superb with soundtracks, classical, choral, jazz etc.


----------



## jasaero

cwill said:


> Yeah, that's not what this is at all. They must be defective. It actually loses connection for no reason. Not just a skip in the music.


Yeah I don't have that.  Does seem maybe I have to take right out first for it all to connect well initially, but other than that they worked well.  No really connection problems other than drops in playback in some areas.


----------



## hifi80sman

TK33 said:


> Any rumors on whether Sennheiser is coming out with an update to the MTW? I noticed they've been pretty heavily discounted on Amazon (US) recently.  Saw it for $205 the other day and is currently at $216.  Really wish B&W would stop messing around with neckbands and just go true wireless already.


You speak the truth.  I have the P7 Wireless & PX5 and can't wait for a TWS from those guys.  Even though the PX was uncomfortable, the one thing B&W has never done is disappointment in the SQ department.  I wouldn't be surprised if they went with a hybrid BA/DD design and some kind of carbon fiber casing.


----------



## bronco1015

clerkpalmer said:


> Replacement anker LP2 arrived.  Hiss is substantially improved. Same great sound.


What other TWS you got in rotation? Do you think you'll keep the L2p's? mine get here tomorrow.


----------



## XGUGU

TK33 said:


> Any rumors on whether Sennheiser is coming out with an update to the MTW? I noticed they've been pretty heavily discounted on Amazon (US) recently.  Saw it for $205 the other day and is currently at $216.  Really wish B&W would stop messing around with neckbands and just go true wireless already.


Likely a year after the original launched. Big brands and their yearly releases.


----------



## gibletzor

Subrising said:


> Does anyone know if the older version of the Mpow T5 also supports Android 9.0? The one I'm currently looking at doesn't say if it's the newer upgraded M5 version so I'm not 100% sure if it will work.


I've had my Mpow T5 for quite a while now and they work just fine with my Android 9 Galaxy S9+.  Android version shouldn't matter anyway unless there's an app that goes along with the headset.  Then the app might not work with certain versions of Android.


----------



## georgelai57

Pretty scary if left on a bedside table at night.


----------



## webvan (Nov 13, 2019)

Not much talk about the Echo Buds, it seems only three of us here have gone for them ? And I had to jump through hoops since I'm in Europe 
After an initial "scare" when I used the Jabra Elite Sport tips (used by @rhsauer and that normally work for me) gave me a tinny sound, I'm really happy with them. I alternate between the L stock tips and the L CP360, the latter give a perfect seal but tend to "push" them out if I talk. Now the EBs have a "trump card" with the wings that do a great job keeping them right where you put them in your ear. In the long run this causes a little bit of discomfort so I'd reserve them for when you're on the move.
The SQ is excellent, all the frequencies are there and the presentation is very "sharp", quite the opposite of the APPs slight "muddiness".
The ANR seems "mild" at first (not the "wow" effect you get with the APPs) when you toggle it on/off but it's quite effective especially since the passive isolation is quite decent. The transparency mode sounds less natural than the APPs but it does the job, at least as well as the 65Ts I'd say, maybe better.
I'm not a heavy user of Alexa but it's convenient to ask for volume up/down or to play a radio feed without having to tap a button to activate "ok Google".
Highly recommended !


----------



## gibletzor

webvan said:


> Not much talk about the Echo Buds, it seems only three of us here have gone for them ? And I had to jump through hoops since I'm in Europe
> After an initial "scare" when I used the Jabra Elite Sport tips (used by @rhsauer and that normally work for me) gave me a tinny sound, I'm really happy with them. I alternate between the L stock tips and the L CP360, the latter give a perfect seal but tend to "push" them out if I talk. Now the EBs have a "trump card" with the wings that do a great job keeping them right where you put them in your ear. In the long run this causes a little bit of discomfort so I'd reserve them for when you're on the move.
> The SQ is excellent, all the frequencies are there and the presentation is very "sharp", quite the opposite from the APPs slight "muddiness".
> The ANR seems "mild" at first (not the "wow" effect you get with the APPs) when you toggle it on/off but it does the job especially since the passive isolation is quite decent. The transparency mode sounds less natural than the APPs but it does the job, at least as well as the 65Ts I'd say, maybe better.
> ...


I'm glad you got yours sounding better!  I've had one major issue with mine where the sound got super crackly and sounded like the bit rate was running very low.  It started after I connected it to my PC to try it out.  I did a factory reset of the buds and they've been done since so hopefully that was the issue.  
The Paasthrough mode on these is so much better than the Galaxy Buds.  It picks up more and sounds less processed.
I'm very happy with them as well so far.


----------



## clerkpalmer

bronco1015 said:


> What other TWS you got in rotation? Do you think you'll keep the L2p's? mine get here tomorrow.


Currently mw07 go, powerbests pro and L2ps along with some bt20s combos. Yes they are keepers.  For 99 bucks they are amazing.


----------



## LordToneeus

georgelai57 said:


> Pretty scary if left on a bedside table at night.



Scarier than these??


----------



## Grayson73

cwill said:


> They're different in that the SSK has twice the amount of bass the Kissral has. Same tips, same audio source.



SSK has more bass than the Anbes 359 also.  Sounds like the Kissral is similar to the Anbes.


----------



## ld100

georgelai57 said:


> Pretty scary if left on a bedside table at night.



Worth getting for the price?


----------



## Grayson73

Tranya B530 on sale for $39.99.  https://www.amazon.com/Bluetooth-Microphone-TRANYA-Headphones-Continuous/dp/B07VS1LS52


----------



## georgelai57

ld100 said:


> Worth getting for the price?


People here seem to think so. The shells are a bit too shallow for my admittedly large ears.


----------



## AudioNoob

What is the wavefun like? They also released a 3t model that has longer battery and wireless charging. They said it sounds almost the same, whatever that might mean.


----------



## ld100

jibra 75t - has anyone heard them yet? Wondering if the sound has been upgraded?


----------



## jasaero (Nov 13, 2019)

Haha... Flossy is claiming these are $90 APPs for the most part.  Why do they need to copy packaging and the works though?  And why not do them Black, since Apple won't?  Haha.


----------



## david8613

how do the tranya b530 compare to the tranya t3?


----------



## tma6

ld100 said:


> jibra 75t - has anyone heard them yet? Wondering if the sound has been upgraded?



getting them tomorrow. Will do a full review once I’ve had a chance to test them out for a few days


----------



## gibletzor

Grayson73 said:


> Tranya B530 on sale for $39.99.  https://www.amazon.com/Bluetooth-Microphone-TRANYA-Headphones-Continuous/dp/B07VS1LS52


Highly recommend, especially if you like bass!  It's not a bass monster, but it's got lots and it's good quality.  And they don't skimp on the mids and highs either!   Microphones are top notch for phone calls as well.


----------



## mattedialdoc

jasaero said:


> Haha... Flossy is claiming these are $90 APPs for the most part.  Why do they need to copy packaging and the works though?  And why not do them Black, since Apple won't?  Haha.




Wow that pretty convincing


----------



## webvan

Sounds like they sent him the originals so they can laugh all the way to the bank when conned viewers throw their money at them ! It looks like he's placed a new order "just in case".
He says to use Paypal but I doubt Paypal would help since these are sold as "AR Pro Clone"...when something seems too good to be true it generally is !


----------



## CardigdanWalk

webvan said:


> Sounds like they sent him the originals so they can laugh all the way to the bank when conned viewers throw their money at them ! It looks like he's placed a new order "just in case".
> He says to use Paypal but I doubt Paypal would help since these are sold as "AR Pro Clone"...when something seems too good to be true it generally is !




This has to be the case. Surely some of the interactions / pops up like when the case opens  would only take place with the properitary Apple chips inside


----------



## Sam L

tma6 said:


> Okay everyone, here's my Airpods Pro Review after about a week of use (sorry for the crazy long review but I had a lot to say lol):
> 
> Going to go through everything in full, but wanted to start by saying that this was definitely a particularly interesting product to review. I do want to credit Apple for making a much improved product from their previous Airpods (which I really disliked), but then again those came out 3 years ago and as such a part of me was hoping for something that was significantly better, especially when you factor in the $250 price point. The one thing I can say is that these are probably going to work for a lot of people and I have to say that there are certain things about them that I absolutely love. On the other hand, in terms of pure sound quality, Apple has done some really weird and arguably cool things that make the Airpods Pro almost trick you into thinking you're listening to something that is better than what it actually is. Anyway, sorry for the tangent, let me begin:
> 
> ...



ok... wow... Fantastic review. Just skimmed through this while finishing my morning coffee. I'll definitely have to read this review more carefully later. Totally agree on the highs... I've been struggling to describe what I'm hearing around in the upper frequencies (not a bad thing necessarily, just weird) and you've started to put things into words accurately.


----------



## hifi80sman

jasaero said:


> Haha... Flossy is claiming these are $90 APPs for the most part.  Why do they need to copy packaging and the works though?  And why not do them Black, since Apple won't?  Haha.



They look great, except they don't have ANC.  Be weary of postings that indicate noise cancellation, because they are likely referring to (and being sneaky) the microphone (cVc 6.0 or 8.0).  Here's another review:


----------



## Ted Presley

AudioNoob said:


> Does it have voice announcements like connecting etc? Is the light bright? Have you had a chance to compare the sound to mpow m5 or sifi?


It have few short AI voices in English such as: on, off, connected, disconnected... It has blinking blue lights for both sides. I don't have those TWS you mentioned, but as the sound quality, I would give them 6-6.5.

If you put it deep into the ears the bass quantity is good, quality is ok, not booming, mid is clear enough, high is not harsh. Of course, it's still a cheap TWS, but I think the sound quality is ok for the price.


----------



## jasaero

geoxile said:


> If you have youtube music try the tube amp emulation feature under the EQ settings. Masks that harshness and makes the sound more mellow



Yeah, I suspect there are lots of ways to accomplish that.  I'm more trying to gauge all the stock tuning and overall sound quality.  I think the MW07+ are near the very top and are even somewhat flat audiophile tuned other than this some what emphasized highs.  If they were under $200 I might keep them.  At $300 even with the nice materials and such I just find it to be a bit much with the noise cancelling being only so so and the ambient not having way to adjust.  Has the features, but to me at $300 they need to be more well done.  And although the most comfortable of all the spendy ones I am checking out they still aren't as comfy as the Shanling.


----------



## jasaero

hifi80sman said:


> They look great, except they don't have ANC.  Be weary of postings that indicate noise cancellation, because they are likely referring to (and being sneaky) the microphone (cVc 6.0 or 8.0).  Here's another review:




Yeah, I was somewhat confused why ole Floss didn't point that part out as I am sure it was probably the case.


----------



## jasaero

CardigdanWalk said:


> This has to be the case. Surely some of the interactions / pops up like when the case opens  would only take place with the properitary Apple chips inside



Haha, yeah, never considered he got trolled by them?  Haha.  Didn't hear him say he was going to order separate.  This would make mores sense as I was also surprised by how perfect a copy they seemed to be, even if no ANC or something he didn't notice.


----------



## edog45

Showed up in my Google news feed this morning.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cn...pods-alternative-the-soundcore-liberty-2-pro/
I purchased a pair yesterday using the Jimmy code and this showed up in my Google news feed this morning. Looks like Anker is wanting to increase sales on these with discount codes Poppin up in random places.

To save you from clicking the link it's a short article with no review at all ending with a link to Amazon and the promo code CnetLt2P for 40off


----------



## tma6

Sam L said:


> ok... wow... Fantastic review. Just skimmed through this while finishing my morning coffee. I'll definitely have to read this review more carefully later. Totally agree on the highs... I've been struggling to describe what I'm hearing around in the upper frequencies (not a bad thing necessarily, just weird) and you've started to put things into words accurately.



Thanks a ton! really glad you enjoyed it. I'll be writing another one about the Jabra 75t after I get it tomorrow and use it for a few days.


----------



## webvan

hifi80sman said:


> They look great, except they don't have ANC.  Be weary of postings that indicate noise cancellation, because they are likely referring to (and being sneaky) the microphone (cVc 6.0 or 8.0).  Here's another review:




Doesn't look like the "clone version" that Flossy reviewed, he had ANC on his, both the display on screen and he commented on it too. He didn't say anything about the tap vs the click either. He got sent the real ones or he got mixed up !


----------



## hifi80sman

tma6 said:


> Thanks a ton! really glad you enjoyed it. I'll be writing another one about the Jabra 75t after I get it tomorrow and use it for a few days.


I've been looking at those.  Do you have the 65t?  If so, I'd be curious if the sound the same.  From most accounts, they sound the same.


----------



## hifi80sman

webvan said:


> Doesn't look like the "clone version" that Flossy reviewed, he had ANC on his, both the display on screen and he commented on it too. He didn't say anything about the tap vs the click either. He got sent the real ones or he got mixed up !


Sometimes he goes Hypebeast and glosses over the details (he got two real APP!).  It would be interesting to know specifically which clone he has.  The i500 Pro (like the i500) appear to be the main clone.


----------



## webvan

It's possible he missed some stuff but that screen with the ANC/OFF/AMBIENT slider was there and he did say he heard the "ANC Pressure". I don't think he reviewed a clone  In that second video you can "see" it's different, not the same white, in his you can't tell them apart at all.


----------



## david8613 (Nov 13, 2019)

gibletzor said:


> Highly recommend, especially if you like bass!  It's not a bass monster, but it's got lots and it's good quality.  And they don't skimp on the mids and highs either!   Microphones are top notch for phone calls as well.




just ordered the tranya b530. my current chi fi tw favorites are the anbes 359, tranya t3 I hope these tranya b530 measure up.


----------



## FYLegend

icybrizz said:


> Have been lurking the thread for a couple of days since I was looking for tws with similar criteria too, ended up ordering shanling mtw100. It seems to fits my requirements very well, except no AptX, but it still receive a high praise from reviewers in terms of connectivity and SQ. Plus it has a pass through mode, making it suitable to be worn in office/public environment, wireless charging, good batterylife and ipx7 rating too.. and BA drivers for that sweet2 clarity and mids.. seems so perfect Can't wait for it to arrive.


Yeah I had this one in mind, except for the lack of volume control or AptX. I was also anticpating the MIFO O4 which has a similar design as well, and seems to have volume control. Then again, MIFO seems to be calling the O5 a superior product and their UK site lists the O4 as "discontinued". I've only seen it on Aliexpress recently as previously they only had a small run in Thailand.

I've been using the Jabees Firefly Pro which has hearthrough, albeit rather poor compared to the Jabra 65t, and the call quality is also disappointing. The bass is quite bloated but it makes for a "fun" sound that still has reasonable treble detail and soundstage. They have a Firefly.2 which has similar features plus waterproofing, longer battery life and claim to be improved in sound and call quality.

Jimmy's code for the Liberty 2 Pro doesn't work on Amazon.ca, but there is currently a 20$ coupon.

PS, Yannick Khong just posted on the FB group that the 75t sounds like beats with recessed mids =/


----------



## gibletzor

david8613 said:


> just ordered the tranya b530. my current chi fi tw favorites are the anbes 359, tranya t3 I hope these tranya b530 measure up.


I have the Kissral R18 (Anbes 359 clone) and they're both great in different ways.  I don't own the T3, but from what I can tell from others, they toned down the bass a bit and clarified the higher tones.  I really enjoy mine.


----------



## Bartig (Nov 14, 2019)

I skipped coming here on 11-11. So many missed posts. Wow. 

Is it okay for me to post my Tronsmart Spunky Beat review? It is soo good for $25, insane.

Gotta make better pictures though.


/off-topic Oh and these are my new Elac UB BS-U5 speakers, speaking of newfound love.


----------



## HiFlight

I will be receiving the Jabra 75t this Friday and will post my initial impressions asap.


----------



## BigZ12

Bartig said:


> I skipped coming here on 11-11. So many missed posts. Wow.
> 
> Is it okay for me to post my Tronsmart Spunky Beat review? It is soooo good for $25, insane.
> 
> ...


I'm starting to like this too, after I managed to reset it and then decided to give them some time.. 
As you say, very engaging sound. Very good fit for me (don't stick out at all, and I can sleep on the side with them), and connectivity is great.

I see we both were unlucky to get the batch with no volume control. And the command for the next track is on our left bud.
The new version has volume control, and skip to next track on the right bud...for the same price


----------



## tma6 (Nov 13, 2019)

hifi80sman said:


> I've been looking at those.  Do you have the 65t?  If so, I'd be curious if the sound the same.  From most accounts, they sound the same.



I don't have the 65t to compare to but I tried them out when they first came out and thought the sound was underwhelming, though better than the Airpods at the time (which was a low bar lol). Unfortunately it's been a while so I don't know if I remember too much about how they sounded in detail, so my review will probably be mostly on these in isolation. I'll be comparing them directly with the APPs, Tevis, original MW07s, and a couple wired sets though for some context. I've heard different things about the 75ts, some are saying that they sound a lot better than the originals, while others saying the bass is overpowering. While I like a little warmth to my sound, if the bass on them bleeds into the other freq ranges even with EQ adjustment or if instruments sound artificial then I'm out. Lifestyle features on them seem like a solid upgrade from the previous version though so I'm hoping for something good!


----------



## Subrising (Nov 13, 2019)

Bartig said:


> I skipped coming here on 11-11. So many missed posts. Wow.
> 
> Is it okay for me to post my Tronsmart Spunky Beat review? It is soooo good for $25, insane.
> 
> Gotta make better pictures though.



If you had a choice between the Spunky Beat for $38, the Mpow T5 for $69 or Sabbat E12 Ultra for $77 which would you take mate (mainly gym use and prices are AUD)? About to pull the trigger aha


----------



## FYLegend

Bartig said:


> I skipped coming here on 11-11. So many missed posts. Wow.
> 
> Is it okay for me to post my Tronsmart Spunky Beat review? It is soooo good for $25, insane.
> 
> ...


Wow, if only this review had come earlier. I had seen some varying impressions that they sounded "okay" or "bassy/rolled off". Does the charging port work with USB Type C to C cables? Found it a little sneaky that they showed a photo of it charging with a cable connected to a dual power brick on the Type A end rather than the Type C port of it.



BigZ12 said:


> I'm starting to like this too, after I managed to reset it and then decided to give them some time..
> As you say, very engaging sound. Very good fit for me (don't stick out at all, and I can sleep on the side with them), and connectivity is great.
> 
> I see we both were unlucky to get the batch with no volume control. And the command for the next track is on our left bud.
> The new version has volume control, and skip to next track on the right bud...for the same price


Which seller has it listed with volume control>


----------



## Subrising

FYLegend said:


> Wow, if only this review had come earlier. I had seen some varying impressions that they sounded "okay" or "bassy/rolled off". Does the charging port work with USB Type C to C cables? Found it a little sneaky that they showed a photo of it charging with a cable connected to a dual power brick on the Type A end rather than the Type C port of it.
> 
> 
> Which seller has it listed with volume control>



The Tronsmart Aliexpress store has it listed with volume controls as that's the one I'm looking at.


----------



## onree

Unfortunately looks like the Aliexpress store does not ship to the US?


----------



## Mouseman

david8613 said:


> just ordered the tranya b530. my current chi fi tw favorites are the anbes 359, tranya t3 I hope these tranya b530 measure up.


You should really like them. They're my current daily driver, and the sound quality is fantastic. I use them more than my Mpows, and I thought those were better than the T3s. Of course I've had the Ankers sitting in my Amazon cart for a day or two now, and my self control is rapidly crumbling. I expect they will beat everything wireless I have.


----------



## Justin US (Nov 13, 2019)

I'm looking for help with a gift for my sister. Can anyone comment on the Macaw NE1S?
https://drop.com/buy/macaw-ne1s-true-wireless-bluetooth-5-0-iem/details#details

If not, can someone recommend me a few budget ($40-90) wireless IEM of good quality? (maybe with a bright signature?)

Here's my post asking for assistance if you'd like https://www.head-fi.org/threads/hel...e1s-other-wireless-iems.919149/#post-15306586

I'm sorry if this has been addressed succinctly already, 1031 pages is just a lot of pages!


----------



## Linus Jian

Guys, I just received the xm3 and after tested the ANC for couple hours I found the ANC on it is just a tad bit better than the ANC on my mw07 plus...

I was not satisfied with ANC on the mw07 plus and expected the ANC on xm3 to be a lot better...

From my point of view I don't think the ANC on the xm3 will give me day and night difference on subway or plane...


----------



## AudioNoob

Bartig said:


> I skipped coming here on 11-11. So many missed posts. Wow.
> 
> Is it okay for me to post my Tronsmart Spunky Beat review? It is soooo good for $25, insane.
> 
> Gotta make better pictures though.



Reviews note that they don't turn off when you put them in the case, that you have to turn them off manually, and that the lid doesn't hold them down well. Does any of that ring true?


----------



## Rob E.

AudioNoob said:


> Reviews note that they don't turn off when you put them in the case, that you have to turn them off manually, and that the lid doesn't hold them down well. Does any of that ring true?



That's not what Bartig wrote. You should re-read.


----------



## TK33

clerkpalmer said:


> Currently mw07 go, powerbests pro and L2ps along with some bt20s combos. Yes they are keepers.  For 99 bucks they are amazing.



Did you end up trying the MW07 Plus or did you just decide to hold on to the MW07 Go (think you had mentioned it a while back)? I'm being indecisive now that I see the Steel Blue Plus on Best Buy available for order.  Curious if anyone has tried both and noticed a big difference in sound without using ANC (i recall early reviews seemed to indicate only small differences).


----------



## AudioNoob

Rob E. said:


> That's not what Bartig wrote. You should re-read.


I'm not talking about Bartig, I'm talking about other reviews online. Why don't you let them answer since they have the earphones and we don't.


----------



## bronco1015

clerkpalmer said:


> Currently mw07 go, powerbests pro and L2ps along with some bt20s combos. Yes they are keepers.  For 99 bucks they are amazing.


i found a couple presets in the app i like, and they are pretty fantastic. just trying to decide if i wear out the mOmentums and or Anbes 359s before i get a new pair..decisions. Definitely a great buy though, and no hiss!


----------



## bronco1015

Got the mavin AirXR in today. Pros, they each pair individually. Really small and well built case. FWIW, they charge via micro USB. Disapointing, but definitely not a deal breaker for me. The earbuds feel well built, but do feel like fingerprint magnets. Buds are very small and i got a great fit with them. Really comfortable. in addition to tips, also come with wings. Didn't try them because of how good the fit was but an added bonus if needed. Very responsive touch controls. the prompts were in a language i am not familiar with, but paring was simple enough, they did show up as Air XR L and r in available devices on my phone. 2 taps on left or right to raise and lower volume, 3 on either to summon assistent, and i basicly stopped there.. They honestly sound like a clearer, far less basy but similar in depth, ofusho F16. If they were the same price e.g. $30-35, i'd possibly keep them for the shower rotation, but they were $119. I was honestly shocked because of the feedback i've seen from several people about the airX. TLDR, they are going back.


----------



## jasaero (Nov 14, 2019)

OK, got the soundcore LP2 and have to agree with everyone else, that even at $100-150 hit above their cost.  And the app is decent also.  The standard sound mode isn't great and sort of boomy, but flat, lounge, and acoustic are OK.  Acoustic is volume boost and somewhat flatter it seems.  Overall they beat the MW07 Plus in my book.  Just seem to cover every range of sound better and resolve things better. Only by a tiny bit and go a notch louder to boot... Which is probably better than ANC if you are OK at that volume.

Edit: Have noticed I can get clipping on LP2 when on acoustic mode so the volume boost is a bit much it seems, so probably not meant for loud volume so much to improve acoustic performances somehow? 

Highs can still be harsh, but guess that could be addressed with one of the settings.  Sony is still good, not as powerful and dynamic and like the ANC with customizable ambient, but just not as open or complete sounding and way more uncomfortable than LP2 and MW07 Plus.  MTW really aren't bad, but stock tuning is not my cup of tea and were uncomfortable enough and silly enough about not always pairing up right away I just sorta excluded them early. With some EQ pretty sure the extra volume dynamics will out gun Shanling.

Still will keep Shanling and use a lot.  They are most comfortable of all seem to pair well, ambient works soso, and have a more comfortable sound that is really not bad at the volume it can get too.  The highs are a bit recessed, but only in the upper reaches where some of that sound can be harsh and not add a ton to the final sound of you just want comfort.

Don't want to take time to test battery life or really dig into all features... But will say lip sync on video, even youtube is good with the Sony.  Rest can't get low enough latency seem synced on YouTube.  Soundcore might be second by a bit over rest.  Rest are pretty bad.

Anyhow will probably keep Shanling and Soundcore only.  The price on the rest is just not justified.  Really do wish Shanling had more volume, which sorta leaves me curious of their dynamic version.


----------



## Bartig

BigZ12 said:


> I'm starting to like this too, after I managed to reset it and then decided to give them some time..
> As you say, very engaging sound. Very good fit for me (don't stick out at all, and I can sleep on the side with them), and connectivity is great.
> 
> I see we both were unlucky to get the batch with no volume control. And the command for the next track is on our left bud.
> The new version has volume control, and skip to next track on the right bud...for the same price


Oh, I didn't know that. Will add it in my review.



Subrising said:


> If you had a choice between the Spunky Beat for $38, the Mpow T5 for $69 or Sabbat E12 Ultra for $77 which would you take mate (mainly gym use and prices are AUD)? About to pull the trigger aha


Haha, I just answered you this in PM.



FYLegend said:


> Wow, if only this review had come earlier. I had seen some varying impressions that they sounded "okay" or "bassy/rolled off". Does the charging port work with USB Type C to C cables? Found it a little sneaky that they showed a photo of it charging with a cable connected to a dual power brick on the Type A end rather than the Type C port of it.



I think it sounds a lot like the SSK BT03, although that one is tuned even a bit more forward. To keep the hype a bit in tone (two readers were already asking me if they can compete with the most expensive TWS on the market), I added 'phenomenal performer *for the price*' in a concluding note. Next, I will further compare them to more expensive options.



AudioNoob said:


> Reviews note that they don't turn off when you put them in the case, that you have to turn them off manually, and that the lid doesn't hold them down well. Does any of that ring true?


They shut down right when in the case - although it takes a bit longer than on some other TWS. I notice that's always the case when the two earpieces also work independently. It's like it has to confirm both earpieces should indeed shut down - and then it turns off.

Have to check if this is the same with the volume control model, though.


----------



## BigZ12

FYLegend said:


> Wow, if only this review had come earlier. I had seen some varying impressions that they sounded "okay" or "bassy/rolled off". Does the charging port work with USB Type C to C cables? Found it a little sneaky that they showed a photo of it charging with a cable connected to a dual power brick on the Type A end rather than the Type C port of it.
> 
> Which seller has it listed with volume control>


First, I'm sorry I posted my "ok and bassy" some days ago. But as I said I didn't listen to them because I initially put them into my drawer due to the touch controls. I had a problem, and wanted to reset them. The touch controls was first non responsive, then oversensitive. I found a method on Youtube, but the "touch the buds 4 times, then hold for x seconds" was impossible. Glad I didn't give up, because now I think I'm going to use them anyway.
Yes they are still "bassy", but I controlled them with the Flexfoam tips I got with the Lypertek Tevi. Bass still punchy and deep, but not so dominant.

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000196615631.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.56234c4d6M9k7u


----------



## Caipirina

Quick question for those with Airpod Pros and working on a mac & also using an iphone (total mac environment under one icloud user name). 
How quick / easy is it to switch between devices? Does it come close to 'multipoint' ? 

Thank you


----------



## X-Nemesis

How are the L2Pro for gym use?  Do they stay put and how emphasized is the Shrek effect?


----------



## clerkpalmer

X-Nemesis said:


> How are the L2Pro for gym use?  Do they stay put and how emphasized is the Shrek effect?


I find them comfortable but not super stable.  Lifting and stationary cardio would be fine. Running probably not.


----------



## Erevan

jasaero said:


> OK, got the soundcore LP2 and have to agree with everyone else, that even at $100-150 hit above their cost.  And the app is decent also.  The standard sound mode isn't great and sort of boomy, but flat, lounge, and acoustic are OK.  Acoustic is volume boost and somewhat flatter it seems.  Overall they beat the MW07 Plus in my book.  Just seem to cover every range of sound better and resolve things better. Only by a tiny bit and go a notch louder to boot... Which is probably better than ANC if you are OK at that volume.
> 
> Edit: Have noticed I can get clipping on LP2 when on acoustic mode so the volume boost is a bit much it seems, so probably not meant for loud volume so much to improve acoustic performances somehow?
> 
> ...



The battery life is exactly what keeps me from purchasing L2P. That advertised 8 hours turned out to be 5 hours and 43 minutes in practice for a YT reviewer (JimsReviewRoom). The MW07 plus got  8 hours and 58 minutes with noise canceling on (Sound Guys review). I used to be able to sleep a full 8 hours with my Creative Outlier Airs when I had an iPhone(AAC), but battery life has gone to hell since I switched to an Android s10 (aptX). Short of it is my GF snores.

The battery metric is really pushing me towards the MW07 plus, but the cost and the feature set not being mature has me waiting for a better option.

What source are you using for the buds? Android, iPhone, other? If PC, what BT are you using? Internal chip or USB key?


----------



## Bhelpoori

Caipirina said:


> Quick question for those with Airpod Pros and working on a mac & also using an iphone (total mac environment under one icloud user name).
> How quick / easy is it to switch between devices? Does it come close to 'multipoint' ?
> 
> Thank you


It is really straightforward and illustrated below: https://www.macrumors.com/how-to/switch-devices-airpods/ 

In addition on Mac, I use the ToothFairy app which uses just a keyboard shortcut to connect:  https://apps.apple.com/us/app/tooth-fairy/id1191449274?ign-mpt=uo=4&mt=12


----------



## X-Nemesis

clerkpalmer said:


> I find them comfortable but not super stable.  Lifting and stationary cardio would be fine. Running probably not.



Good to know as the treadmill makes up much of my cardio, thanks.


----------



## AudioNoob

Bartig said:


> Have to check if this is the same with the volume control model, though.


Some people noted that although the description said volume control, they got ones without, and tronsmart official store has three listings of the same. I asked them about it but they have yet to respond.


----------



## Bhelpoori

Erevan said:


> The battery life is exactly what keeps me from purchasing L2P. That advertised 8 hours turned out to be 5 hours and 43 minutes in practice for a YT reviewer (JimsReviewRoom). The MW07 plus got  8 hours and 58 minutes with noise canceling on (Sound Guys review). I used to be able to sleep a full 8 hours with my Creative Outlier Airs when I had an iPhone(AAC), but battery life has gone to hell since I switched to an Android s10 (aptX). Short of it is my GF snores.
> 
> The battery metric is really pushing me towards the MW07 plus, but the cost and the feature set not being mature has me waiting for a better option.
> 
> What source are you using for the buds? Android, iPhone, other? If PC, what BT are you using? Internal chip or USB key?


The use of aptX on the Qualcomm 3020/6 chip uses between 20-25% more power though on my Syllable 101s I've sometimes seen it higher. If you force Android to use AAC rather than aptX then you will probably see it closer to 8 hours.


----------



## tma6

I know it's an ad... but I'm kinda sold already lolll.


----------



## Caipirina

Bhelpoori said:


> It is really straightforward and illustrated below: https://www.macrumors.com/how-to/switch-devices-airpods/
> 
> In addition on Mac, I use the ToothFairy app which uses just a keyboard shortcut to connect:  https://apps.apple.com/us/app/tooth-fairy/id1191449274?ign-mpt=uo=4&mt=12


Thank you, pretty much as I do everything now. Thought there was maybe some extra magic sprinkled on top 

need to check out that tooth fairy app. Thanks for pointing it out.


----------



## gibletzor

Anyone using the Liberty Pro 2 with a Samsung phone?  I'm curious if anyone has compared Samsung's Adapt Sound to the HearID feature in the Soundcore app.  They are both functionally the same feature it seems like, I just wasn't sure if one tended to be more accurate.  Thanks!


----------



## Sam L

AudioNoob said:


> How does the elite 65t compare to all these sub $75 options like ssk, m50, tevi etc? There is also some weird durability reports. Oh hell, this market is so over dumped, just look at soundpeats, they release an 'upgrade' every week with no modeling schema to follow



The Elite 65t's hold their own well against all the recent sub $75 offerings. If you are satisfied with the Jabra's, then I wouldn't recommend any of the recent Chi-Fi bluetooth tws' to replace the 65t's. However, if you're on head-fi then you're not looking for a replacement -- you're looking to feed the obsession, so yes, start snapping up some of the recent sub $75 options.

That said, the 65t's sound categorically different from all the sub $100 TWS's put out over the last 9 months -- largely due to a lack of bass extension and woefully anemic sub-bass. Thankfully, the Jabra sound app is well made (especially considering how long ago this app was launched) and can compensate. On the other hand, upper mids / lower-ish highs are excellent and detail retrieval is pretty good (as good or better than anything currently on the sub $100 market.)

Now a word on our "sickness," all the excellent sub $75 offerings are wide-ranging in sound characteristics. So, having 4 or 5 different models is easily justifiable.


----------



## jasaero

Erevan said:


> The battery life is exactly what keeps me from purchasing L2P. That advertised 8 hours turned out to be 5 hours and 43 minutes in practice for a YT reviewer (JimsReviewRoom). The MW07 plus got  8 hours and 58 minutes with noise canceling on (Sound Guys review). I used to be able to sleep a full 8 hours with my Creative Outlier Airs when I had an iPhone(AAC), but battery life has gone to hell since I switched to an Android s10 (aptX). Short of it is my GF snores.
> 
> The battery metric is really pushing me towards the MW07 plus, but the cost and the feature set not being mature has me waiting for a better option.
> 
> What source are you using for the buds? Android, iPhone, other? If PC, what BT are you using? Internal chip or USB key?



I see.  Can't say I am too concerned with battery life.  5 will be good.  Mostly an android phone will be the source.

Can try on PC, what did you want to know?


----------



## Sam L

gibletzor said:


> Anyone using the Liberty Pro 2 with a Samsung phone?  I'm curious if anyone has compared Samsung's Adapt Sound to the HearID feature in the Soundcore app.  They are both functionally the same feature it seems like, I just wasn't sure if one tended to be more accurate.  Thanks!



ah, interesting. Just got the note 10 plus. I typically use a rooted Android phone to utilize viper4android. I am pleasantly surprised at how effective Samsung's Adapt Sound is! By the way, not sure why people knock the akg oem headset and rush to look for a tws replacement -- after eq'ing the akg's with Adapt Sound, they sound better most (all?) the TWS' out there.


----------



## clerkpalmer (Nov 14, 2019)

X-Nemesis said:


> Good to know as the treadmill makes up much of my cardio, thanks.



They might work for you. I tend to have problems with running and earbuds because I sweat a ton and pretty much have terrible form.  If you are one of those gazelle runners that looks like they are floating on the treadmill, they might work.  For example, I see people running with air pods in their ears and they stay put.  They wouldn't stay in my ears for 10 seconds.


----------



## Sam L

Sam L said:


> ah, interesting. Just got the note 10 plus. I typically use a rooted Android phone to utilize viper4android. I am pleasantly surprised at how effective Samsung's Adapt Sound is! By the way, not sure why people knock the akg oem headset and rush to look for a tws replacement -- after eq'ing the akg's with Adapt Sound, they sound better most (all?) the TWS' out there.


but i get the freedom from wires thing


cwill said:


> The R18 is very flat, and very clear. The lows never interfere with the higher frequencies. This can be a good thing with busy music, but isn't fun to listen to. As for EQ'ing them...my Spotify EQ does not allow anything to be turned up, only down. If I turn anything up like the bass it just lowers everything else. It doesn't turn the bass up. I don't really understand it.



interesting. I've always relied on viper4android for eq. your description reminds of old school eq thinking -- lowering various frequencies is as/more important as raising


whitemouse said:


> Thank you!
> 
> I also hooked Shure 535 to TRN BT20s Bluetooth adapters, the sound with Bluetooth adaptor is not just bad, it is horribly bad, so bad, that no amount of wireless convenience would make me go wireless.
> 
> Bluetooth audio simply is not there yet, it is not even comparable to wired headphones.



agreed.

I just posted that even the akg oem wired headset that ships with Samsung phones beat all the bluetooth audio out there (after proper eq'ing).


----------



## Justin US

Can anyone comment on the Shanling MTW100s in the gym?


----------



## mjb152

clerkpalmer said:


> I find them comfortable but not super stable.  Lifting and stationary cardio would be fine. Running probably not.


I've been running a few times in mine, they're absolutely fine. No issues at all


----------



## Timastyle

Anyone have any experience here with the Audio-Tecnica ATH-SPORT7TW? Wonder how it compares to the Melomania or SSK (I have both). It's the only AT that has hear through with the ability to control how much ambient noise it lets through, which had me interested. Battery life is not great but sufficient for my use. Any reviews would be appreciated.


----------



## david8613

jasaero said:


> OK, got the soundcore LP2 and have to agree with everyone else, that even at $100-150 hit above their cost.  And the app is decent also.  The standard sound mode isn't great and sort of boomy, but flat, lounge, and acoustic are OK.  Acoustic is volume boost and somewhat flatter it seems.  Overall they beat the MW07 Plus in my book.  Just seem to cover every range of sound better and resolve things better. Only by a tiny bit and go a notch louder to boot... Which is probably better than ANC if you are OK at that volume.
> 
> Edit: Have noticed I can get clipping on LP2 when on acoustic mode so the volume boost is a bit much it seems, so probably not meant for loud volume so much to improve acoustic performances somehow?
> 
> ...




very nice pic. out of those you have there, which has the nicest, bass that's juicy thick goes deep but not boomy?


----------



## jagar46

Sam L said:


> ah, interesting. Just got the note 10 plus. I typically use a rooted Android phone to utilize viper4android. I am pleasantly surprised at how effective Samsung's Adapt Sound is! By the way, not sure why people knock the akg oem headset and rush to look for a tws replacement -- after eq'ing the akg's with Adapt Sound, they sound better most (all?) the TWS' out there.



Adaptive sound is ok, I use it with the AKG’s that came with the S10 plus, I got to agree the AKG’s do sound as good as the liberty pro 2’s, not better though and I haven’t tried any other truly wireless to compare them to.
I now use the Acoustic or Piano setting on the Liberty Pro, a more natural sound and for some reason a big volume boost.


----------



## gibletzor

jagar46 said:


> Adaptive sound is ok, I use it with the AKG’s that came with the S10 plus, I got to agree the AKG’s do sound as good as the liberty pro 2’s, not better though and I haven’t tried any other truly wireless to compare them to.
> I now use the Acoustic or Piano setting on the Liberty Pro, a more natural sound and for some reason a big volume boost.


Try setting the Soundcore eq to Flat and do the Adapt Sound hearing test.  Samsung's implementation sounds way better to me so far!


----------



## CocaCola15

jasaero said:


> OK, got the soundcore LP2 and have to agree with everyone else, that even at $100-150 hit above their cost.  And the app is decent also.  The standard sound mode isn't great and sort of boomy, but flat, lounge, and acoustic are OK.  Acoustic is volume boost and somewhat flatter it seems.  Overall they beat the MW07 Plus in my book.  Just seem to cover every range of sound better and resolve things better. Only by a tiny bit and go a notch louder to boot... Which is probably better than ANC if you are OK at that volume.
> 
> Edit: Have noticed I can get clipping on LP2 when on acoustic mode so the volume boost is a bit much it seems, so probably not meant for loud volume so much to improve acoustic performances somehow?
> 
> ...



Having owned both and returned/sold the Sony and the Senns (but not the MW07+) I am in agreement with you re the L2P.  I wasn't thrilled with most of the presets in the EQ either. Didn't find the "custom" EQ option great either, so I use the jazz setting for any streaming (Amazon HD is the only one I have). When playing tracks on my iPhone in ALAC or lower bitrates (I am going to repeat myself here) I use a fantastic player/app, Kaiser Audio, which is available on the Apple App store. It's expensive, $10, as apps go, but it has a 20-band EQ and lots of other features. I have shaped the L2P sound to my personal preference and I have to say, I absolutely love them (especially at the $40 discount price).

And like you, I seem to need two pair of higher-end BT earphones, in my case the other one being the Cambridge Audio Melomania  To me, they are almost equally fantastic (the L2P offers a bit wider soundstage) SQ-wise, but very different form factor. The M1s tend to get a bit annoying past 1.5-2 hours of use with their rather thick sound tube, while the L2P never get uncomfortable. Finally, I use foam tips with both (Comply T200 with the L2P and the CA foams (they sent me some extras and I bought a pack via a friend in the UK), so just happy to think my search is over. I know, eye rolls out there. But I really think I hit a sweet spot. And combined they cost less than $250.

I also have the Tranya BT phone (upgraded T1 version) too, and they are pretty good. Will use them now and then too.


----------



## hifi80sman

tma6 said:


> I know it's an ad... but I'm kinda sold already lolll.



SOLD!  It's like the L2P meets ANC.


----------



## clerkpalmer

hifi80sman said:


> SOLD!  It's like the L2P meets ANC.



It's basically what Bose is going to do.  Sadly, they are not launching in the US until January 2020.  Will be available in China in a month or so I am told.


----------



## Sam L

gibletzor said:


> Try setting the Soundcore eq to Flat and do the Adapt Sound hearing test.  Samsung's implementation sounds way better to me so far!



Good to know. I'm embarrassed to say that I've owned some 4 or 5 Samsung phones over the years and this is the first time I've actually played with the Adapt Sound. In my defense, my setup with those phones was with either a ify idsd micro or oppo ha 2, so I wasn't really looking to improve sound from the phone.


----------



## Sam L

jagar46 said:


> Adaptive sound is ok, I use it with the AKG’s that came with the S10 plus, I got to agree the AKG’s do sound as good as the liberty pro 2’s, not better though and I haven’t tried any other truly wireless to compare them to.
> I now use the Acoustic or Piano setting on the Liberty Pro, a more natural sound and for some reason a big volume boost.



hmm... I didn't need to hear that now. starting up a new job soon and got a signing bonus. wasn't thinking of spending any of that on tws earphones until all this talk of the L2Ps.  damn you head-fiers!   =)


----------



## Sam L (Nov 14, 2019)

dweaver said:


> Thanks, I own the QC30 and find them lacking in audio quality and they suffer from wind noise. So not sure I want to wait on the new model. But have to admit I like the new over ear model more than previous Bose headphones so they might surprise me.



What did you find lacking in the QC30, aside from the atrocious mic quality (never should of been allowed to go to market with that thing)?

I'm actually sitting in a Whole Foods with mine on and I've always thought there were pretty decent sound-wise. Interesting thing is, the Airpods Pro actually cut the noise here better than the Bose. I'm seeing some scenarios where the APP really shine with their ANC.

oh, another con = the neckback slides around all over the place. I can't really see anyone actually moving around with these on, but sitting stationary, they're good. Agreed on the wind noise when moving about.


----------



## Linus Jian

clerkpalmer said:


> It's basically what Bose is going to do.  Sadly, they are not launching in the US until January 2020.  Will be available in China in a month or so I am told.


Bose... Never really liked any bose headphones... The clarity is always too bad. Would only recommend Bose headphones to people who only cares about noise cancelling. 

Also I don't remember bose ever made good use of BA drivers...


----------



## clerkpalmer

Linus Jian said:


> Bose... Never really liked any bose headphones... The clarity is always too bad. Would only recommend Bose headphones to people who only cares about noise cancelling.
> 
> Also I don't remember bose ever made good use of BA drivers...


Good point about the BA.


----------



## dweaver

Sam L said:


> What did you find lacking in the QC30, aside from the atrocious mic quality (never should of been allowed to go to market with that thing)?
> 
> I'm actually sitting in a Whole Foods with mine on and I've always thought there were pretty decent sound-wise. Interesting thing is, the Airpods Pro actually cut the noise here better than the Bose. I'm seeing some scenarios where the APP really shine with their ANC.
> 
> oh, another con = the neckback slides around all over the place. I can't really see anyone actually moving around with these on, but sitting stationary, they're good. Agreed on the wind noise when moving about.


I just found the audio to be to safe in regards to the signature so it never really engaged me. Also I hate their neck design too .


----------



## tma6 (Nov 14, 2019)

Damn... just returned the Jabra 75t after like 15 minutes of use based on SQ alone. Some of the worst sounding tws I’ve tried in a while. Bass is boomy and completely artificial - basically sounds like you’re listening to a crappy subwoofer through a wall. I legitimately wanted to stop listening to them. The mids are also artificial sounding, and the highs are tinny, with no definition or crispiness, and when I put on the treble eq to reduce bass they became very harsh. I’m not gonna dignify these with a full review bc it would have been difficult to have to listen to these any more than I already have. Other than the awful sq, case is decent and the comfort is good. The hear through feature was mediocre and somehow made them sound even worse. Calls seemed alright but AirPods pro are way better. Actually the AirPods pro are so much better than these at every level it’s not even a fair comparison. But tbh that’s really not saying much. Overall, just an absolute no go from me.


----------



## clerkpalmer

tma6 said:


> Damn... just returned the Jabra 75t after like 15 minutes of use based on SQ alone. Some of the worst sounding tws I’ve tried in a while. Bass is boomy and completely artificial - basically sounds like you’re listening to a crappy subwoofer through a wall. I legitimately wanted to stop listening to them. The mids are also artificial sounding, and the highs are tinny, with no definition or crisp, and when I put on the treble eq to reduce bass they became very harsh. I’m not gonna dignify these with a full review bc it would have been difficult to have to listen to these any more than I already have. Other than the awful sq, case is decent and the comfort is good. The hear through feature was mediocre and somehow made them sound even worse. Calls seemed alright but AirPods pro are way better. Actually the AirPods pro are so much better than these at every level it’s not even a fair comparison. But tbh that’s really not saying much. Overall, just an absolute no go from me.



This was the most predictable post of the year.


----------



## dweaver

Well thanks TMA6, you just saved me from wasting my time on the 75T, I was more leaning to the L2P anyway but that is now 100% more certain.


----------



## FYLegend

hmm, it seems the 75T uses the same drivers but the better sealing means more bloated bass. I struggled to hear the bass on my 65t especially in noisy environments but sometimes I can hear it get bloated when the seal becomes optimal.. The mids had a forwardness that reminded me of ATH-E40 but lacked detail.

Anyone seen Klipsch T3? Looks similar to Aukey T10 in some ways.
https://www.klipsch.ca/products/t3-true-wireless-earphones

AptX and Qi charging, not sure about USB-C as the spec sheet mentions USB C on one part and microUSB another (they previously messed up the spec sheet with the S1 as well)


----------



## X-Nemesis

tma6 said:


> I know it's an ad... but I'm kinda sold already lolll.




The SHREK is strong with these.


----------



## hifi80sman

dweaver said:


> Well thanks TMA6, you just saved me from wasting my time on the 75T, I was more leaning to the L2P anyway but that is now 100% more certain.


I think you're safe going with the L2P.  SQ is top-shelf.  I never anticipated the 75t to be mind-blowing, at best, a slightly refined version of 65t in terms of SQ (all accounts noted the 75t and 65t sound very similar).


----------



## hifi80sman

tma6 said:


> Damn... just returned the Jabra 75t after like 15 minutes of use based on SQ alone. Some of the worst sounding tws I’ve tried in a while. Bass is boomy and completely artificial - basically sounds like you’re listening to a crappy subwoofer through a wall. I legitimately wanted to stop listening to them. The mids are also artificial sounding, and the highs are tinny, with no definition or crispiness, and when I put on the treble eq to reduce bass they became very harsh. I’m not gonna dignify these with a full review bc it would have been difficult to have to listen to these any more than I already have. Other than the awful sq, case is decent and the comfort is good. The hear through feature was mediocre and somehow made them sound even worse. Calls seemed alright but AirPods pro are way better. Actually the AirPods pro are so much better than these at every level it’s not even a fair comparison. But tbh that’s really not saying much. Overall, just an absolute no go from me.


Dumb question, but you made sure you didn't have another EQ going on, correct?  If not, wow, just wow!


----------



## hifi80sman

X-Nemesis said:


> The SHREK is strong with these.


Shrek was the lead character.  Just sayin'.


----------



## tma6

hifi80sman said:


> I think you're safe going with the L2P.  SQ is top-shelf.  I never anticipated the 75t to be mind-blowing, at best, a slightly refined version of 65t in terms of SQ (all accounts noted the 75t and 65t sound very similar).



From what I recall about the 65ts, it seems to me that these actually sound worse. I could be particularly sensitive to overly boomy bass, but it's also that instruments did not even sound like what they were. Maybe if you only listen to dubstep and like the sound of standing next to a subwoofer then these could work. But even for electronic music I felt that they didn't sound good. To my ears, the tonality is completely off and they sounded super cheap.


----------



## tma6 (Nov 14, 2019)

hifi80sman said:


> Dumb question, but you made sure you didn't have another EQ going on, correct?  If not, wow, just wow!



Nah I had all other EQ off =/, I guess it's possible I had a defective unit?


----------



## jasaero

david8613 said:


> very nice pic. out of those you have there, which has the nicest, bass that's juicy thick goes deep but not boomy?



I suspect the Soundcore LP2, but didn't try a lot of bass focused music or really try and EQ to surface that more and compare.  The LP2 standard app setting is more bass focused though and it's nice.  Suspect if you EQed the MW07 it could be similar or better, but it's under emphasized and requires 3rd party EQ to bring that forward as a focus.  Had listened to bass heavy tracks with the MW07+, but was a few days prior.  They are very accurate and not boomy at all, but not a focus of the stock tuning at all, even though they can extend low well and clean.   

Basically if you want a simple way to get good bass emphasized tuning with clean bass the Soundcore LP2 are most straight forward way to get there I think.  Probably from my memory of the MW07+ bass response though it is a bit less "boomy" than LP2 when it is there.


----------



## jasaero

jagar46 said:


> Adaptive sound is ok, I use it with the AKG’s that came with the S10 plus, I got to agree the AKG’s do sound as good as the liberty pro 2’s, not better though and I haven’t tried any other truly wireless to compare them to.
> I now use the Acoustic or Piano setting on the Liberty Pro, a more natural sound and for some reason a big volume boost.



Do you get clipping when on the volume boosted profiles like acoustic if playing sorta loud?  I do and it doesn't seem the volume is so extreme it should do that...seems to be something about the levels and boost going on.  Never tried to tinker with phone and headset volume to see what will stop the clipping.  Just sorta curious if that is normal behavior with these boosted profiles and high volume.


----------



## mattedialdoc

I’m really enjoying the APP....but hard to get a good seal on the right side. Takes a bunch of fiddling around.Using the “L” tips. If anyone sees aftermarket tips pop up for the APP please shoot me a PM. Thanks!


----------



## mattedialdoc

mattedialdoc said:


> I’m really enjoying the APP....but hard to get a good seal on the right side. Takes a bunch of fiddling around.Using the “L” tips. If anyone sees aftermarket tips pop up for the APP please shoot me a PM. Thanks!


Ok this is weird...just switched the tips btwn the buds and got a seal on the R on the first try. Strange.


----------



## WesennTony

Looks like I'm the only one on the opposite side regarding L2P. The replacement did reduce the hiss to be barely noticeable, which is good. But the sound is too "digital" and less cohesive to my ears. Sound better when EQed with piano or vocal boosted, but still not my taste. The tone is just not real to me. Besides they're even bulkier than Nt01ax, with a large case. Gotta return them.


----------



## webvan

Can't comment on the sound but yes, the form factor, reminds me of the XM3s and I'd rather forget that poor experience.


----------



## Pete7874

Wow... 1035 pages.  Can someone please point me to a thread/post with recommended budget wireless IEMs, hopefully under $50 from a US source? Looking for decent bass response.

Are these TaoTronics SoundElite 72 any good?
https://www.amazon.com/Headphones-TaoTronics-Sweatproof-Waterproof-Cancelling/dp/B07C7D95FF

My source would be Shanling M3s and possibly my phone (Pixel 2).


----------



## tma6

Yo so after reading a couple positive reviews about the 75t I feel like there’s no way the one I got was properly functioning. It sounded too bad. I’m gonna try again so we’ll see.


----------



## Justin US

Pete7874 said:


> Wow... 1035 pages.  Can someone please point me to a thread/post with recommended budget wireless IEMs, hopefully under $50 from a US source? Looking for decent bass response.
> 
> Are these TaoTronics SoundElite 72 any good?
> https://www.amazon.com/Headphones-TaoTronics-Sweatproof-Waterproof-Cancelling/dp/B07C7D95FF
> ...



I'm in a similar spot. I found this, written by a member, https://www.scarbir.com/guide/best-sounding-wireless-earphones-50-dollar


----------



## tma6

Actually not sure if I’ll try again, think I’m just gonna wait till the 1mores come out. But I’d disregard what I said to some degree. Sorry bout that.


----------



## Pete7874

Justin US said:


> I'm in a similar spot. I found this, written by a member, https://www.scarbir.com/guide/best-sounding-wireless-earphones-50-dollar


Thanks for that link.  The Mpow T5 looks great, but it appears it's no longer sold on Amazon. Bummer.  Wondering if EarFun Free would be comparable.


----------



## AudioNoob

Pete7874 said:


> Thanks for that link.  The Mpow T5 looks great, but it appears it's no longer sold on Amazon. Bummer.  Wondering if EarFun Free would be comparable.


I will be reviewing the free later in december when they send it to me (they are working on a firmware update).
I think you can get the bomaker sifi still which people likened to mpow before, and it has a much smaller case.


----------



## hifi80sman

tma6 said:


> Nah I had all other EQ off =/, I guess it's possible I had a defective unit?


Yeah, probably not.  

Most defective units don't have low-grade sound...it's usually some type of distortion, popping, etc. pr connectivity issues.  Often, there are mismatched drivers, but even in those cases, you can still generally discern if the sound/signature is good or not.  I'm REALLY curious to try these out now, just to see if they are that bad!  LOL!

I was never a big fan of the 65t, but didn't think they were bad.  I always thought they were no more than what I would describe as "solid", but not special.  Sort of the Toyota Corolla of TWS' (super-functional, but not a chick magnet).


----------



## hifi80sman

mattedialdoc said:


> Ok this is weird...just switched the tips btwn the buds and got a seal on the R on the first try. Strange.


Also, you can try opening your mouth when inserting the buds (grow up you people with dirty minds!).  It tends to open your ear canals and then allow for a seal when you close your mouth.


----------



## hifi80sman

WesennTony said:


> Looks like I'm the only one on the opposite side regarding L2P. The replacement did reduce the hiss to be barely noticeable, which is good. But the sound is too "digital" and less cohesive to my ears. Sound better when EQed with piano or vocal boosted, but still not my taste. The tone is just not real to me. Besides they're even bulkier than Nt01ax, with a large case. Gotta return them.


Really?!  Man, love these things.  The presets are pretty good, and depending on the track, I use Signature, Flat, or Piano.  I'll use the Bass Booster setting when I need to go Beast Mode and run the football.

Sorry to hear that, though!


----------



## Pete7874

hifi80sman said:


> Also, you can try opening your mouth when inserting the buds (grow up you people with dirty minds!).  It tends to open your ear canals and then allow for a seal when you close your mouth.


Or pull your earlobe to the back while you are inserting the tip.


----------



## ld100

tma6 said:


> getting them tomorrow. Will do a full review once I’ve had a chance to test them out for a few days



Would you be able to share your initial importations regarding the sound tomorrow?


----------



## hifi80sman

Pete7874 said:


> Thanks for that link.  The Mpow T5 looks great, but it appears it's no longer sold on Amazon. Bummer.  Wondering if EarFun Free would be comparable.


If you can go up to around $100, you'll be in a much better league to get something that sounds _*excellent*_.  Big fan of the Anker Liberty 2 that's available on Amazon for $89 after a $10 off coupon.  You can also pick them up in-store at pretty much any WalMart.  These are *very close* to Liberty 2 Pro in terms of sound and in pretty much every other aspect.

https://www.amazon.com/Soundcore-Diamond-Coated-Personalized-Headphones-Cancellation/dp/B07SHGN942/

At the $50 or less price point, I'd strongly recommend the MPOW T5, but you've obliviously already tried to grab those.


----------



## Chrisdu18e

Hello everybody, has anyone ever tried the new Noble Falcon ?
https://nobleaudio.com/en/shop/wireless/


----------



## ld100

I received Shanling mtw100 and what a let down! Extremely bright and unnatural sounding. Very poor fit. No matter what app I tried to equalize nothing worked. Low end is too weak and artificial. Highs are just bright. Sound never gets loud. Even compare to Jabra 65t they are just horrible. Very disappointing. Is it just me? Are there wireless that actually sound good?


----------



## hifi80sman

ld100 said:


> I received Shanling mtw100 and what a let down! Extremely bright and unnatural sounding. Very poor fit. No matter what app I tried to equalize nothing worked. Low end is too weak and artificial. Highs are just bright. Sound never gets loud. Even compare to Jabra 65t they are just horrible. Very disappointing. Is it just me? Are there wireless that actually sound good?


What have you tried so far?


----------



## ld100

hifi80sman said:


> What have you tried so far?



jabra65 and jlabs. Both were not great but significantly better than Shanling


----------



## Pete7874

hifi80sman said:


> If you can go up to around $100, you'll be in a much better league to get something that sounds _*excellent*_.  Big fan of the Anker Liberty 2 that's available on Amazon for $89 after a $10 off coupon.  You can also pick them up in-store at pretty much any WalMart.  These are *very close* to Liberty 2 Pro in terms of sound and in pretty much every other aspect.
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/Soundcore-Diamond-Coated-Personalized-Headphones-Cancellation/dp/B07SHGN942/


Thanks.  How does the EQ work on these?  Is it adjusted through a phone app?  Once you set the EQ, will the IEMs memorize it so that you can utilize the memorized EQ curve with another source such as a DAP?


----------



## clerkpalmer

Chrisdu18e said:


> Hello everybody, has anyone ever tried the new Noble Falcon ?
> https://nobleaudio.com/en/shop/wireless/


Mine arrive monday.  The first units in the US just shipped. Will report back.  Have high hopes on sq.


----------



## HiFlight

tma6 said:


> Damn... just returned the Jabra 75t after like 15 minutes of use based on SQ alone. Some of the worst sounding tws I’ve tried in a while. Bass is boomy and completely artificial - basically sounds like you’re listening to a crappy subwoofer through a wall. I legitimately wanted to stop listening to them. The mids are also artificial sounding, and the highs are tinny, with no definition or crispiness, and when I put on the treble eq to reduce bass they became very harsh. I’m not gonna dignify these with a full review bc it would have been difficult to have to listen to these any more than I already have. Other than the awful sq, case is decent and the comfort is good. The hear through feature was mediocre and somehow made them sound even worse. Calls seemed alright but AirPods pro are way better. Actually the AirPods pro are so much better than these at every level it’s not even a fair comparison. But tbh that’s really not saying much. Overall, just an absolute no go from me.


Bummer!  My 75t is due to arrive tomorrow.


----------



## jasaero

ld100 said:


> I received Shanling mtw100 and what a let down! Extremely bright and unnatural sounding. Very poor fit. No matter what app I tried to equalize nothing worked. Low end is too weak and artificial. Highs are just bright. Sound never gets loud. Even compare to Jabra 65t they are just horrible. Very disappointing. Is it just me? Are there wireless that actually sound good?



I am thinking something with fit and ear tips are partly to blame if it seemed "bright".  If I have one aspect that I can say isn't accurate with them it's that they lack treble response.  If they aren't sealed my BAs will sound somewhat bright from losing all the bass though.  They don't respond to an EQ well for some reason. Not sure if that is the BA driver or something with how it doesn't respond to and EQ with a normal gain in that range and instead recesses others or something weird.  I tried to hunt down things I could hear more properly in the more spendy ones I tested and not on those, but didn't find much.  I do think they are WAY more sensitive to having GOOD seal though.  Maybe something to do with the BA driver if you got that version.  I thought they were total junk compared to my SSK until I finally picked a tip that sorta sealed ok.  Then they were really decent.

Will whole heartedly agree on volume.  Pretty silly and must just be something to do with tiny battery and desire to claim long battery life.


----------



## DigDub

Chrisdu18e said:


> Hello everybody, has anyone ever tried the new Noble Falcon ?
> https://nobleaudio.com/en/shop/wireless/


I tried them in-store. Has lots of bass and a bright sound. Mid bass is somewhat missing. The overall sound is quite incoherent due to the weak mid bass and bright highs with the big bass. And the LED blinks about every 8 seconds when in use.


----------



## clerkpalmer

DigDub said:


> I tried them in-store. Has lots of bass and a bright sound. Mid bass is somewhat missing. The overall sound is quite incoherent due to the weak mid bass and bright highs with the big bass. And the LED blinks about every 8 seconds when in use.



Hmm. Doesn't sound promising. Maybe need some burn in?


----------



## hifi80sman

Pete7874 said:


> Thanks.  How does the EQ work on these?  Is it adjusted through a phone app?  Once you set the EQ, will the IEMs memorize it so that you can utilize the memorized EQ curve with another source such as a DAP?


There's an app with 22 presets, so one of them should work for you.  I like the Signature, Flat, and Piano presets.  Bass Booster is good for loud environments when you need to drown out more noise (gym, etc).

Once it's set, the earbuds will remember the preset until you change it again. You can use a third party EQ to further adjust if you desire.  The app also allows you to update the earbuds.


----------



## hifi80sman

ld100 said:


> jabra65 and jlabs. Both were not great but significantly better than Shanling


The Liberty Air 2 are solid.  Different form factor than the Liberty 2, but they basically sound the same, which is to say they sound great IMHO.

If I could only make one recommendation purely on the basis of SQ/Price, it would be the L2P.  The original MW07 are also great, but the battery is not that good and they are priced a bit high for what they are.  I'm a sucker, so I bought them anyway.


----------



## Pete7874

hifi80sman said:


> There's an app with 22 presets, so one of them should work for you.  I like the Signature, Flat, and Piano presets.  Bass Booster is good for loud environments when you need to drown out more noise (gym, etc).
> 
> Once it's set, the earbuds will remember the preset until you change it again. You can use a third party EQ to further adjust if you desire.  The app also allows you to update the earbuds.


Thanks.  Sounds tempting.
EQ aside, how is the bass response on these and comfort?  My ears are on the smaller side and I find some IEMs uncomfortable after extended listening periods. My IBasso IT01 make my ears hurt after a while.


----------



## willyk

hifi80sman said:


> The Liberty Air 2 are solid.  Different form factor than the Liberty 2, but they basically sound the same, which is to say they sound great IMHO.
> 
> If I could only make one recommendation purely on the basis of SQ/Price, it would be the L2P.  The original MW07 are also great, but the battery is not that good and they are priced a bit high for what they are.  I'm a sucker, so I bought them anyway.


Interested in the L2P.  At this point, how does a buyer know if they are getting an LP2 that likely suffers from hiss, vs an LP2 that does not have a hissing issue?  I've been tracking this topic on this forum for weeks, and the delineation between problematic units vs non-problematic units doesn't seem to be tied to firmware version, or necessarily purchase date.

Any insights on this?


----------



## ld100 (Nov 14, 2019)

...


----------



## mattedialdoc

Pete7874 said:


> Or pull your earlobe to the back while you are inserting the tip.



That’s what she said


----------



## DigDub

clerkpalmer said:


> Hmm. Doesn't sound promising. Maybe need some burn in?


I don't think burn in will do much as the treble is probably too hot, to the point where I felt it overwhelmed the mids. I was trying to listen for details in the mids but the jarring mid-highs got in the way. Probably could EQ the highs to tame it though.


----------



## HiFlight

tma6 said:


> Yo so after reading a couple positive reviews about the 75t I feel like there’s no way the one I got was properly functioning. It sounded too bad. I’m gonna try again so we’ll see.


I will let you know my impressions tomorrow.


----------



## clerkpalmer

DigDub said:


> I don't think burn in will do much as the treble is probably too hot, to the point where I felt it overwhelmed the mids. I was trying to listen for details in the mids but the jarring mid-highs got in the way. Probably could EQ the highs to tame it though.


 Well bummer.  An app is supposedly coming for them.


----------



## dweaver

WesennTony said:


> Looks like I'm the only one on the opposite side regarding L2P. The replacement did reduce the hiss to be barely noticeable, which is good. But the sound is too "digital" and less cohesive to my ears. Sound better when EQed with piano or vocal boosted, but still not my taste. The tone is just not real to me. Besides they're even bulkier than Nt01ax, with a large case. Gotta return them.



Have you used any Hybrid earphones or straight BA based earphones? If not you just might not like BA created sound. I personally have grown to like hybrid solution but almost always end up finding straight BA based earphones lacking in some fashion. I do actually prefer a well made dynamic speaker earphone.



willyk said:


> Interested in the L2P.  At this point, how does a buyer know if they are getting an LP2 that likely suffers from hiss, vs an LP2 that does not have a hissing issue?  I've been tracking this topic on this forum for weeks, and the delineation between problematic units vs non-problematic units doesn't seem to be tied to firmware version, or necessarily purchase date.
> 
> Any insights on this?


I suspect you just have to buy and see what happens and return if you get a unit that hisses to much.


----------



## AudioNoob

hifi80sman said:


> The Liberty Air 2 are solid.  Different form factor than the Liberty 2, but they basically sound the same, which is to say they sound great IMHO.
> 
> If I could only make one recommendation purely on the basis of SQ/Price, it would be the L2P.  The original MW07 are also great, but the battery is not that good and they are priced a bit high for what they are.  I'm a sucker, so I bought them anyway.


Thanks for the note on this. Do you still have the air? There is also the Spirit Dot 2 on the way


----------



## jagar46

jasaero said:


> Do you get clipping when on the volume boosted profiles like acoustic if playing sorta loud?  I do and it doesn't seem the volume is so extreme it should do that...seems to be something about the levels and boost going on.  Never tried to tinker with phone and headset volume to see what will stop the clipping.  Just sorta curious if that is normal behavior with these boosted profiles and high volume.



Honestly I don’t play that loud, my hearing seems to be kind of good in the sense that anything above 65% is uncomfortable, it’s the same with the on ear Dali’s I have, people were saying they don’t go loud enough and it’s impossible for me to go above 70%.


----------



## jasaero

jagar46 said:


> Honestly I don’t play that loud, my hearing seems to be kind of good in the sense that anything above 65% is uncomfortable, it’s the same with the on ear Dali’s I have, people were saying they don’t go loud enough and it’s impossible for me to go above 70%.



Totally get it.  I usually don't listen loud, but do like to crank it here and ther.  More just testing and such though.  Does seem if you set phone at like 80% or so you can crank on but volume to 100% without the clipping. So seems to be something with full source device volume level.


----------



## xuan87 (Nov 15, 2019)

Just want to shamelessly plug Lendmeurears' latest TW earphones: The Alpha and Delta Elite http://www.lendmeurears.com/alpha-delta-elite-true-wireless-earphones/

Disclaimer: I'm friends with the owner, he did not ask me to help him spread the word in any form, so I'm doing this of my own free will. I paid full price for these.

These aren't the best TW earphones I've heard (that will go to the Nuarl NT01AX and Sony WH1000MX3) but at the price point of $59, I think they're extremely hard to beat.

I found these to be very similar to the Jabra Elite sports, both in term of construction and sound signature (warm and very bassy). The matte rubbery surface and touch control feels very premium. However, these fit alot better than the Jabra Elite sports.

The fact that it supports APTX, Qualcomm True wireless and IP5X at that price point are just bonus.

Edit: I just saw the newly announced Jabra 75t and the AD Elite looks exactly like it!!


----------



## Dcell7

ld100 said:


> I received Shanling mtw100 and what a let down! Extremely bright and unnatural sounding. Very poor fit. No matter what app I tried to equalize nothing worked. Low end is too weak and artificial. Highs are just bright. Sound never gets loud. Even compare to Jabra 65t they are just horrible. Very disappointing. Is it just me? Are there wireless that actually sound good?



I have quite a different experience with these. I have the BA version and i agree the bass is on the weak side quantity wise but everything sounds very balanced. I use the stock tips that were already on the earphones itself. I have tried 1 size smaller for a while but that didn't fit well enough so i went back to 1 size bigger. I use them on my iPhone X and on 50% of the volume it is plenty loud for me when indoors. If i go out i have to crank the volume up a notch but i never have to blast the 100% volume on these.


----------



## DigDub

xuan87 said:


> Just want to shamelessly plug Lendmeurears' latest TW earphones: The Alpha and Delta Elite http://www.lendmeurears.com/alpha-delta-elite-true-wireless-earphones/
> 
> Disclaimer: I'm friends with the owner, he did not ask me to help him spread the word in any form, so I'm doing this of my own free will. I paid full price for these.
> 
> ...


I've got those too. Narrow soundstage and the highs sounds cheapish and unrefined. Bass is strong.


----------



## Chrisdu18e

DigDub said:


> I tried them in-store. Has lots of bass and a bright sound. Mid bass is somewhat missing. The overall sound is quite incoherent due to the weak mid bass and bright highs with the big bass. And the LED blinks about every 8 seconds when in use.


Damn, I've had great expectations for the first Noble TW.
Thank you very much for your return. Did you have a good fit and was there noise in the store ?
To be totally sure, I will wait other feedbacks before giving up.
I could settle for my MW07 + and APP but I'm always looking for better.... and better... and better.
I don't think I'm the only one here


----------



## duo8

I received a sample of the Tronsmart Spunky Beat the other day.
Quick (probably only) impression: Lots of midbass.


----------



## Erevan

Bhelpoori said:


> The use of aptX on the Qualcomm 3020/6 chip uses between 20-25% more power though on my Syllable 101s I've sometimes seen it higher. If you force Android to use AAC rather than aptX then you will probably see it closer to 8 hours.



Thanks for the suggestion. I get around 6.5-7 hours before being jolted into the waking world by that blasted "BATTERY LOW" notification. I've tried SBC, AAC, and aptX in the attempt for better battery life. AAC does a better job, but not by enough. I had an iPhone 5 and now an s10+. It's either the build quality of these buds or the difference in efficiency between phones. After one of the button caps started to fall off on the Outlier Airs, I'd guess a bit of both. 



jasaero said:


> I see.  Can't say I am too concerned with battery life.  5 will be good.  Mostly an android phone will be the source.
> 
> Can try on PC, what did you want to know?



I'm using an Asus BT 4.0 USB key currently, and have been able to verify through latency testing that it can use aptX through Win10 on the key with the Outlier Airs. Do you notice any latency with the MW07+ or L2P on the PC? 

I bit the bullet and ordered the MW07+ yesterday, but I'm guessing this will be a continuation in the search for the perfect TWS. I'm not an audiophile, but have a deep appreciation for good sound. The music I listen to comes alive with the HD650s, and I'm on a quest to take that sensation mobile at the workplace (along with sleeping, gaming, meditating, exercising, etc).


----------



## willyk

> I suspect you just have to buy and see what happens and return if you get a unit that hisses to much.



That's a bummer, as I was hoping to give it as a Holiday gift.


----------



## AudioNoob

duo8 said:


> I received a sample of the Tronsmart Spunky Beat the other day.
> Quick (probably only) impression: Lots of midbass.


Do you have the version with volume control and more regular track control (right next left previous)? They recently updated some things.


----------



## ld100

Dcell7 said:


> I have quite a different experience with these. I have the BA version and i agree the bass is on the weak side quantity wise but everything sounds very balanced. I use the stock tips that were already on the earphones itself. I have tried 1 size smaller for a while but that didn't fit well enough so i went back to 1 size bigger. I use them on my iPhone X and on 50% of the volume it is plenty loud for me when indoors. If i go out i have to crank the volume up a notch but i never have to blast the 100% volume on these.



I also got BA as I thought it would work better for me in terms of sound. 75-80% loud is ok on iPhone but on some tracks you can hear that they struggle to be loud... But sound-quality is a complete mess. If I get a good seal things get a bit better, but the base is still not there and it is not natural sounding at all. They are still very bright and remind me of quite few cheap(er) asian wired phones from Ali Express I had and was never happy with. I think functionality was greatly sacrificed for the form/ Stock tips are not good for me an I can't get a good seal... In any case I think people who are after good sound should look elsewhere. This is not the one. Yes people hear things differently and have different ear shapes, but these are not there in terms of sound period. I am actually very surprised that scarbir.com that posts here rated them so high. Even Jabra 65t that don't get much love here for sound are so much more superior in terms of sound.


----------



## Caipirina

Today I received my smallest TWS ever! The Trop Weiling I mentioned a few weeks ago. These are tiny!!! When I opened the box I could not believe this minuscule case has space for 2 buds. And those are rather unique. Flat kinda. Cannot use other tips on them. They are actually ‘just’ earbuds without stem / cord and the silicone cover creates the eartip. 


 

Here in comparison with Anbes 359 and the Mpow M5. 

And they sound actually really nice! Nothing that would win awards, but also not crappy. 

But! (Of course there has to be a but) they can be worn 2 ways: earbud style, just drop them in and you hear music, but without a proper seal you will miss out on the bass. You can totally jam them in, they nearly disappear in my ears! And then they sound wonderful! But then there is a tad more of ear matter covering the connection and the left side drops out quite frequently, which really is a shame. Milage May vary however big your head is. I still like’em


----------



## chinmie

Caipirina said:


> Today I received my smallest TWS ever! The Trop Weiling I mentioned a few weeks ago. These are tiny!!! When I opened the box I could not believe this minuscule case has space for 2 buds. And those are rather unique. Flat kinda. Cannot use other tips on them. They are actually ‘just’ earbuds without stem / cord and the silicone cover creates the eartip.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



does it supports aac? also can it control volume?


----------



## SilverEars (Nov 15, 2019)

Anybody update the firmware on Jabra 65t and noticed better SQ as result?  It seems like it to me, but not entirely sure.  

It's been a long time since I had the 65t and have never updated the firmware, and I noticed there was a September 2019 firmware update on the app.


----------



## Caipirina

chinmie said:


> does it supports aac? also can it control volume?



Brilliant questions ... I guess my ears have gone too old to even notice if it was only SBC ... which according to description is all it has, but who knows, those descriptions of specs are never 100%    They tout for example volume control, which the DON't have (accroding to manual and also just tested) ... 

I would not really recommend them, unless someone wants to have something really small and unique in their arsenal. They case is even more shirt pocket friendly that the airpods. 
Funny that they are only sold by 3 rather obscure online shops on Ali, and my shop somehow managed to mess up my accessories: no lanyard, and replacement 'tips' are 1 more size L and 1 size M (single pieces, not a pair) while 2 size L are on the buds .. in the end it does not bother me. 

More bothered that the case looks much cheaper than advertized, all white plastic. The photos made it appear there's be a silver metal ring around. 

Pretty cool though that one can freely select beside all black, all white, you can also get white buds in black case and vice versa


----------



## duo8

AudioNoob said:


> Do you have the version with volume control and more regular track control (right next left previous)? They recently updated some things.


Yeah that's the one I got
The controls are not sensitive and picky with tap timing. Controlling the volume is very difficult.


----------



## gorman

I've been suggested to post here for help.

I currently use these https://www.4ears.it/portfolio/sm631/ with BT20s and unfortunately they hiss a little bit too much for my liking. At the beginning I thought it wouldn't have bothered me but as I'm using them more, I realize it's too much as it subtracts considerably from sound quality during quiet passages.

As you can see the CIEMs have a sensitivity value of 116 db SPL at 1kHz when driven @1mW and 11ohm resistance. Do you think sensitivity might be the issue here. Are there any workarounds/adapters one can use on the 2-pin connector (0.75mm)?
Or would I be better off using the older BT20 or Fostex TM2 (although they are very expensive considering I would get no use from the included IEMs)? The form factor is *perfect* for my tastes and needs, plus BT20s have a rock solid connection, seriously the best I've ever had with Bluetooth (far superior to that of my Sony WH1000XM2, for instance). I never want to go back to adapter cables.


----------



## WesennTony

dweaver said:


> Have you used any Hybrid earphones or straight BA based earphones? If not you just might not like BA created sound. I personally have grown to like hybrid solution but almost always end up finding straight BA based earphones lacking in some fashion. I do actually prefer a well made dynamic speaker earphone.



I never have hybrids before, but I do have a bunch of BA wired iems and TWS like Earin m2 and Mifo O5 pro. m2 also have Kownles BA, with very pleasant mids. My issue with L2P is not the bass, but the vocals which is unnatural to my ears and quite different from m2. Technically L2P are excellent, having every frequency covered nicely, but all these sound seem not in good harmony with their presets, and tonality of the vocals is off. 
But a further test gave me much better feeling about them. All of my music playing are from Neutron music app. When I select flat from Soundcore app and adjust EQ in Neutron, the sound is much, much better, and I'm now getting what all the praises are about. L2P do have a great potential, but a little tricky to get the sound right. Maybe Neutron is not so friendly with Soundcore EQ presets.


----------



## Luchyres

WesennTony said:


> Looks like I'm the only one on the opposite side regarding L2P. The replacement did reduce the hiss to be barely noticeable, which is good. But the sound is too "digital" and less cohesive to my ears. Sound better when EQed with piano or vocal boosted, but still not my taste. The tone is just not real to me. Besides they're even bulkier than Nt01ax, with a large case. Gotta return them.



I'm with you @WesennTony - I had the Liberty 2 and LP2 and my impressions match yours - my L2P did not hiss much but I did not like the crossover from DD to BA. The highs seemed peak-y and compressed to me, and I prefer my nuarl, case especially, and will wait for the new 1more and N6Pro or Noble Falcon - the next ones I have hopes for...


----------



## duo8

gorman said:


> I've been suggested to post here for help.
> 
> I currently use these https://www.4ears.it/portfolio/sm631/ with BT20s and unfortunately they hiss a little bit too much for my liking. At the beginning I thought it wouldn't have bothered me but as I'm using them more, I realize it's too much as it subtracts considerably from sound quality during quiet passages.
> 
> ...


I had a BT10 and it was also very hissy.
I think it's just a TRN thing, people reported hissing with all their BT cables.


----------



## gorman

duo8 said:


> I had a BT10 and it was also very hissy.
> I think it's just a TRN thing, people reported hissing with all their BT cables.


Ok... 
Anybody with similarly sensitive/low impedance IEMs that could comment on Fostex's TM2?


----------



## AudioNoob

duo8 said:


> Yeah that's the one I got
> The controls are not sensitive and picky with tap timing. Controlling the volume is very difficult.


Got it. Thanks. I wish they moved to low pressure actuation sensors rather than touch. Gloves make things difficult for us penguins living in the north


----------



## galangerz

any update on the app for the tevi? just got mine


----------



## mjb152

Kenneth Galang said:


> any update on the app for the tevi? just got mine


love to hear your thoughts,   I'm having fomo about them


----------



## mjb152

I went into BestBuy yesterday  (dangerous place),  they said they'd had a delivery of Jabra 75T and they sold out immediately.   the actually look quite nice,  I'd have bought some if they'd have been in stock


----------



## Mouseman

My Soundcore Pro 2s are waiting for me at home, I can't wait. A question for owners -- are you hearing the hissing all the time, or is it worse when the music is paused? Any suggestions on test tracks to use to hear it?


----------



## BigZ12

Kenneth Galang said:


> any update on the app for the tevi? just got mine


New update in App Store (ver 1.01), but my buds still won't connect to the app.


----------



## galangerz

BigZ12 said:


> New update in App Store (ver 1.01), but my buds still won't connect to the app.


ahh iOS only so far right?


----------



## BigZ12

Kenneth Galang said:


> ahh iOS only so far right?


That I don't know. I don't own an Android device.


----------



## galangerz

BigZ12 said:


> That I don't know. I don't own an Android device.


ahh good point. welp the google play store doesnt seem to have anything by lypertek. luckily my phone EQ seems to work universally so far so thats good enough


----------



## hifi80sman

Pete7874 said:


> Thanks.  Sounds tempting.
> EQ aside, how is the bass response on these and comfort?  My ears are on the smaller side and I find some IEMs uncomfortable after extended listening periods. My IBasso IT01 make my ears hurt after a while.


Bass response is deep and it's a clean, detailed, resonating bass.  It's not a muddy, mushy, or any other negative adjective.  Comfort is good and it sits nicely in the ear with plenty of ear tips and wings to get the right fit.


----------



## hifi80sman

Mouseman said:


> My Soundcore Pro 2s are waiting for me at home, I can't wait. A question for owners -- are you hearing the hissing all the time, or is it worse when the music is paused? Any suggestions on test tracks to use to hear it?


My _*first pair *_had hissing and it was _*not *_volume dependent, meaning I could turn volume all the way down and it was still there, just as turning up the volume didn't change the hiss level.

My *second pair* does not have any appreciable hissing.  There is a very faint hiss if you listen for it with no music playing, but it's very mild and pretty much on par with any good TWS setup.  This pair is supposedly the "new version".

There was a gap in availability on Amazon from the intial release to the new release.  From all the comments and responses from Anker themselves, apparently there was a gain issue on many of the originally produced units that was later fixed on the "new version".  One would think this could have been handled via firmware update, but I suspect the gap in availability was because they had to remedy a hardware issue somewhere in the audio chain.


----------



## geoxile

For those with the mw07 plus. Is there a way to manually activate the anc? Or is it supposed to be automatic, because tbh it sounds like it's not working at all.


----------



## Pete7874

hifi80sman said:


> My *second pair* does not have any appreciable hissing.  There is a very faint hiss if you listen for it with no music playing, but it's very mild and pretty much on par with any good TWS setup.  This pair is supposedly the "new version".


For someone who's never owned any TWS before, how can you tell if what you're hearing is normal vs abnormal hiss?

Was the hiss in your first pair very apparent/noticeable?


----------



## D3soLaT3

Newest member of the L2P club.

Initial impressions are very positive.

Will do more listening this afternoon.


----------



## tma6

geoxile said:


> For those with the mw07 plus. Is there a way to manually activate the anc? Or is it supposed to be automatic, because tbh it sounds like it's not working at all.



hold the volume down button


----------



## geoxile

tma6 said:


> hold the volume down button


Thanks. Works decently on heat/air rushing


----------



## Timastyle

Timastyle said:


> Anyone have any experience here with the Audio-Tecnica ATH-SPORT7TW? Wonder how it compares to the Melomania or SSK (I have both). It's the only AT that has hear through with the ability to control how much ambient noise it lets through, which had me interested. Battery life is not great but sufficient for my use. Any reviews would be appreciated.



No one has experience with these?  Did a search and nothing came up. Hoping someone has here.


----------



## D3soLaT3

Well, there is no denying it now. I officially have a problem. These are just the ones I've kept.


----------



## ld100

D3soLaT3 said:


> Well, there is no denying it now. I officially have a problem. These are just the ones I've kept.



Which one is the best?


----------



## D3soLaT3

ld100 said:


> Which one is the best?


L2P comes out on top. They are pretty much aligned worst to best (left to right) but I would put the unbranded UFOs behind the Truedots. Only ones I regret keeping are the Bomakers.


----------



## hifi80sman

Pete7874 said:


> For someone who's never owned any TWS before, how can you tell if what you're hearing is normal vs abnormal hiss?
> 
> Was the hiss in your first pair very apparent/noticeable?


Since I have over 20 pairs of TWS' and have tried countless more, my basis for comparison is pretty good, so I can say the L2P that I recently received is quite normal.  Most wireless units have a faint hissing/noise floor, but it's largely unnoticed during the course of normal use, even on tracks with quiet spots (classical, etc).

The hiss on the first unit was *very *apparent and completely abnormal.

Certainly, I cannot guarantee the pair you receive will be the same as mine, but there is a stark difference between the 2 and because of the gap in availability, I can only assume Amazon's stock is all the "new version".  The good thing is, you can return/exchange if you want with Amazon.  Also, if you don't want to go through Amazon for some reason, Anker will deal with you directly.


----------



## hifi80sman

D3soLaT3 said:


> Well, there is no denying it now. I officially have a problem. These are just the ones I've kept.


Welcome to the club.  I think I have a few more lying around, but gives you an idea of how the mind becomes warped.  Better than drugs, though!


----------



## webvan

Anyone else apart from @tma6 got the 75ts ? I've seen claims in Amazon "reviews" that there is no "thump" when walking and running...which I find hard to believe since they're also said in these reviews that they isolate more than the 65ts that have a bad thump, like all "IEMs" out there actually. Even the shallow insertion APP with its "vent" has it.


----------



## surfacecube

Hey guys, got myself the 1more stylish on 11.11 for 45 euros (50$), I wanted to know if I could have gotten something better for the same price ? I'll probably only use them until Google release their TWS if they do not end up being trash.

I know you're supposed to ask before buying something but the tempatation was too big... In any case they'll be definitely better than my Syllable S101 and Wavefun Xpods 2.


----------



## hifi80sman

surfacecube said:


> Hey guys, got myself the 1more stylish on 11.11 for 45 euros (50$), I wanted to know if I could have gotten something better for the same price ? I'll probably only use them until Google release their TWS if they do not end up being trash.
> 
> I know you're supposed to ask before buying something but the tempatation was too big... In any case they'll be definitely better than my Syllable S101 and Wavefun Xpods 2.


For $50, that's really good.  I think you got the most bang for your buck.  I wouldn't feel bad about that at all!


----------



## hifi80sman

webvan said:


> Anyone else apart from @tma6 got the 75ts ? I've seen claims in Amazon "reviews" that there is no "thump" when walking and running...which I find hard to believe since they're also said in these reviews that they isolate more than the 65ts that have a bad thump, like all "IEMs" out there actually. Even the shallow insertion APP with its "vent" has it.


Be weary of those claims...unless you have a semi-open design...maybe there is a kind of light rubbing sound, not necessarily a "thump", which is what I experience with the L2P.  It's not an actual THUMP, but it sounds more like it's rubbing a little, which is audible.


----------



## mikp

oh well, a year later and see no respon to upgrade from mavin and jabra 65t.  with syllable s101 as backups.
already thrown away some random ali sets

Or are there any buds with :
apt-x
ambient sound
waterproof
volume control
charging case takes foam tips
multipoint


----------



## kiwikozo

Still using my earin M2's nearly a year later with spinfit CP100. Really happy with them.

The form factor of the buds and the case is unbeatable. Downside - dropped one of the M2's in my gym bag and that took a good 5 minutes to find.....

Such an enjoyable/energetic sound. Clean and tight bass, very exciting mids and non-fatiguing highs (easily eq'd)

Like them more than the MTW, MW07, 65t, galaxy buds.

Will buy the M3 whenever they're released (hopefully at the end of next year or early 2021 latest).

Did anyone compare the LP2 to the M2? The MW07 sounds exactly like the MW07 plus, right?


----------



## surfacecube

hifi80sman said:


> For $50, that's really good.  I think you got the most bang for your buck.  I wouldn't feel bad about that at all!



Alright, thank you, you got me even more hyped ! Can't wait to receive them


----------



## go0gle

Does anyone else have this problem with the lp2 where the EQ resets every time you disconnect ? I end up having to open the app and set the one I want every time I connect.. it doesn't "remember"




hifi80sman said:


> Better than drugs, though!



Nah..


----------



## Mouseman

I've spent the past hour with the L2Ps,and I am definitely impressed. They're bigger than I expected, but very comfortable in my ears. I have to run some tests on different tracks and with different sources, but the sound at first blush beats every other TWS unit I own by a longshot. They rival wired IEMs in terms of SQ and soundstage. Amazon HD is a real treat. 

I only hear a faint hiss on poorly mastered tracks, I think it's the song and not the buds. More to come later.


----------



## Quicky32

Longtime lurker, 1st post!  I'm in the market for semi wireless, true wireless, or adding a bluetooth solution to my Ibasso IT01's because they sound decent.  I have a set of Vsonic VSD1S that sound decent to me as well.  I listen to anything from Rise Against, Avenged Sevenfold, Evanescence to rap like Aesop Rock, Atmosphere, Big Daddy Kane, Nas, etc.


----------



## chinmie

Quicky32 said:


> Longtime lurker, 1st post!  I'm in the market for semi wireless, true wireless, or adding a bluetooth solution to my Ibasso IT01's because they sound decent.  I have a set of Vsonic VSD1S that sound decent to me as well.  I listen to anything from Rise Against, Avenged Sevenfold, Evanescence to rap like Aesop Rock, Atmosphere, Big Daddy Kane, Nas, etc.



best bet would be something like the ES100 or BTR3, or for true wireless the options are the BT20/BT20S or Fostex TM2


----------



## hifi80sman

go0gle said:


> Does anyone else have this problem with the lp2 where the EQ resets every time you disconnect ? I end up having to open the app and set the one I want every time I connect.. it doesn't "remember"
> 
> 
> 
> ...


No issues with the L2P remembering the setting.  Did you try to unpair, uninstall the app, restart the phone, then re-pair?


----------



## duo8

Is the WF-1000XM3 a good buy? They don't seem to suffer from the issues the 1000X had.

I wonder if Samsung will do a refresh of the Galaxy Buds.


----------



## gibletzor

duo8 said:


> Is the WF-1000XM3 a good buy? They don't seem to suffer from the issues the 1000X had.
> 
> I wonder if Samsung will do a refresh of the Galaxy Buds.



https://www.sammobile.com/news/samsung-galaxy-buds-2-incoming-can-we-expect-noise-cancellation/


----------



## HiFlight (Nov 16, 2019)

webvan said:


> Anyone else apart from @tma6 got the 75ts ? I've seen claims in Amazon "reviews" that there is no "thump" when walking and running...which I find hard to believe since they're also said in these reviews that they isolate more than the 65ts that have a bad thump, like all "IEMs" out there actually. Even the shallow insertion APP with its "vent" has it.


I have noticed no excessive thump while walking with the 75t.  Of course, there will always be some with a proper tight seal but a normal volume level pretty well covers it.  I would say it's pretty similar to most of my other IEMs in this regard.


----------



## Pete7874

The Liberty 2 is here, my first TWS.  So far, I am pleasantly surprised with their sound quality.  Still need more ear time to judge long term comfort.

I do hear a bit of hiss when nothing is playing, but due to lack of point of reference, I am unable to say whether it's normal or not.


----------



## HiFlight (Nov 16, 2019)

Some of my comments regarding the 75t:
Out of the box they will please a basshead, which I am not.  I found mine needed an update to the firmware which took about 15 minutes using the excellent Jabra Sound+ app, the use of which I consider to be a necessity.  I was able to quickly create an EQ curve that matched my listening preferences.  Tonally, they still sounded somewhat off but I discovered that they were using the SBC codec.  Switching to AAC improved the overall tonality and timbre considerably.
Overall, I am very pleased and consider them to be a definite upgrade to my 75t.  Buttons are much easier to press than on the 75t and all controls are working flawlessly.  Connectivity has been rock solid so far and the phones are extremely comfortable.


----------



## DigDub

Chrisdu18e said:


> Damn, I've had great expectations for the first Noble TW.
> Thank you very much for your return. Did you have a good fit and was there noise in the store ?
> To be totally sure, I will wait other feedbacks before giving up.
> I could settle for my MW07 + and APP but I'm always looking for better.... and better... and better.
> I don't think I'm the only one here


I had a good seal due to the long nozzle. Unfortunately it didn't work out for me.


----------



## georgelai57

hifi80sman said:


> Welcome to the club.  I think I have a few more lying around, but gives you an idea of how the mind becomes warped.  Better than drugs, though!


One for each day of the month


----------



## hifi80sman

For those of you that were looking, the MPOW T5 is back in stock (Amazon US), but not on sale.  
https://www.amazon.com/Wireless-Mpow-Bluetooth-Featured-Cancelling/dp/B07SR1FTD4/


----------



## webvan

HiFlight said:


> I have noticed no excessive thump while walking with the 75t.  Of course, there will always be some with a proper tight seal but a normal volume level pretty well covers it.  I would say it's pretty similar to most of my other IEMs in this regard.



Thanks for confirming that there is no "magic" involved with the 75t's, you really have to wonder what some "reviewers" are thinking at times, I suppose they're mostly being clueless


----------



## ScottPilgrim (Nov 16, 2019)

After venturing a little into mid-lowrange IEMs, i am finally thinking of going entirely wireless, as I am tired of getting tangled into shiny wires when I want to listen to music. Now, my biggest concern is my device, which is an XS max. Admittedly it isn’t the best device to stream music through. I currently satiate my needs through Tidal HiFi for students and rip the songs that i like through a third party application, listening through neutron to my preferred parametric EQ, or just download it to my phone. However I understand the jump to wireless will actually take my hardcore audiophile desires away. Now...

My quest is to find a pair of TWS phones that sound marginally better than or atleast similar to my IEMs on my sig,

Microphones for talking,

Functionality would be cool as heck too.

Now, i do have an LG G7 which might be able to transmit LDAC. Not too sure. I’m fine with AAC however.
At this point, price is no object for me.
I am not interested in using the fostex TM02, much rather have an AIO solution.

And I do prefer cross compatibility between both my devices.

I really really want to get the galaxy buds but i don’t think they’re entirely supported on IOS ecosystem.

I am hearing of fitment issues on wf1000xm3.

And I abhor the airpods.

Is the L2p my lord and savior, or should I look for better options?

I generally listen to rap and EDM. But i insist that you do not think I am a bass junkie, as my preference is similar to the harman curve, provided someone turn the upper mid spike down.

Thanks in advance for guiding an explorer on his journey.


----------



## duo8

ScottPilgrim said:


> After venturing a little into mid-lowrange IEMs, i am finally thinking of going entirely wireless, as I am tired of getting tangled into shiny wires when I want to listen to music. Now, my biggest concern is my device, which is an XS max. Admittedly it isn’t the best device to stream music through. I currently satiate my needs through Tidal HiFi for students and rip the songs that i like through a third party application, listening through neutron to my preferred parametric EQ, or just download it to my phone. However I understand the jump to wireless will actually take my hardcore audiophile desires away. Now...
> 
> My quest is to find a pair of TWS phones that sound marginally better than or atleast similar to my IEMs on my sig,
> 
> ...


I too am appreciative of how true-wireless-ness solves some of the biggest issues I had with wired IEMs, namely restricted movement (when not plugged into a portable source) and microphonics (microphonics alone significantly hampered my enjoyment of the FLC8S).

Any Android device running 8.0+ can transmit LDAC, however there are no LDAC TWS earbuds.
You could try the Airpods Pro, would go well with iOS devices and people have said they sound good.
I have tried the Galaxy Buds and I don't think anything can beat them for that price, unless you absolutely hate that sound signature. Where I live they can be had for <$100 new sealed (from those who got it with the S10 but didn't want it).
People have reported that mic quality isn't very good on the Galaxy Buds however.


----------



## AudioNoob

hifi80sman said:


> For those of you that were looking, the MPOW T5 is back in stock (Amazon US), but not on sale.
> https://www.amazon.com/Wireless-Mpow-Bluetooth-Featured-Cancelling/dp/B07SR1FTD4/


I wish they made a smaller case for them with usbc. They could keep the buds the same


----------



## Luchyres

ScottPilgrim said:


> After venturing a little into mid-lowrange IEMs, i am finally thinking of going entirely wireless, as I am tired of getting tangled into shiny wires when I want to listen to music. Now, my biggest concern is my device, which is an XS max. Admittedly it isn’t the best device to stream music through. I currently satiate my needs through Tidal HiFi for students and rip the songs that i like through a third party application, listening through neutron to my preferred parametric EQ, or just download it to my phone. However I understand the jump to wireless will actually take my hardcore audiophile desires away. Now...
> 
> My quest is to find a pair of TWS phones that sound marginally better than or atleast similar to my IEMs on my sig,
> 
> ...



The L2P do get a lot of love on here these days - but I would suggest the Nuarl NT01AX as it is still my daily driver. The bass isn't quite as full as the L2P - but overall it is clear and has more immersive mids to my ears than the L2P.

I'm also keen to see what Nuarl come out with next (N6Pro) - but you may be able to find the NT01AX for sale because of the new N6 soon. (Amazon)


----------



## go0gle

ScottPilgrim said:


> After venturing a little into mid-lowrange IEMs, i am finally thinking of going entirely wireless, as I am tired of getting tangled into shiny wires when I want to listen to music. Now, my biggest concern is my device, which is an XS max. Admittedly it isn’t the best device to stream music through. I currently satiate my needs through Tidal HiFi for students and rip the songs that i like through a third party application, listening through neutron to my preferred parametric EQ, or just download it to my phone. However I understand the jump to wireless will actually take my hardcore audiophile desires away. Now...
> 
> My quest is to find a pair of TWS phones that sound marginally better than or atleast similar to my IEMs on my sig,
> 
> ...



I listen to a lot of electronic music and the lp2 shine there, especially with the custom EQs in the app. 

I have the AirPod pros , it’s no contest


----------



## howdy

hifi80sman said:


> Welcome to the club.  I think I have a few more lying around, but gives you an idea of how the mind becomes warped.  Better than drugs, though!


Gotta gets some of the Earin M2s to add to that collection before they sell out. They sound good but the size is so small that there nice to have when you don't want others to know your jammin cuz they almost entirely fit in your ear.


----------



## Pete7874

hifi80sman said:


> For those of you that were looking, the MPOW T5 is back in stock (Amazon US), but not on sale.
> https://www.amazon.com/Wireless-Mpow-Bluetooth-Featured-Cancelling/dp/B07SR1FTD4/


Damn, I should have waited.  Maybe I could have saved some money by not getting the Liberty 2.  Hopefully, the L2 sounds better.


----------



## Uncle00Jesse

So I’ve spent nearly a month each with APP and the XM3 using an iPhone XR. XM3 sounds infinitely better to me. On the “excited” eq preset, much more energy, soundstage, separation, and fuller sounding. The fit I found to be okay but a little bulky. The case is obviously horrible. 

in terms of NC I can’t see how some are saying APP is better. You really can’t get a super quality seal with the APP, it’s a really shallow, tip only seal. While they are secure and not going anywhere, it just gives you a slight feeling that they aren’t really tight, and I hate that. I’m on NYC subways everyday. With music on 75%+ volume you cannot hear any outside noise with the XM3s. It’s really awesome. APP while fine, still leaks in some high pitched stuff, bursts of laughter, subway screeches etc.

APP are really handy and I like them a lot but I’m not thrilled with the SQ for $250. They’re okay, just not my be all end all. Sound wise I could make the Sony’s my one and only, but the slight weirdness in fit and pressure you feel in ear is making me want to try something else.

what else is there to try?


----------



## bronco1015

jasaero said:


> OK, got the soundcore LP2 and have to agree with everyone else, that even at $100-150 hit above their cost.  And the app is decent also.  The standard sound mode isn't great and sort of boomy, but flat, lounge, and acoustic are OK.  Acoustic is volume boost and somewhat flatter it seems.  Overall they beat the MW07 Plus in my book.  Just seem to cover every range of sound better and resolve things better. Only by a tiny bit and go a notch louder to boot... Which is probably better than ANC if you are OK at that volume.
> 
> Edit: Have noticed I can get clipping on LP2 when on acoustic mode so the volume boost is a bit much it seems, so probably not meant for loud volume so much to improve acoustic performances somehow?
> 
> ...


Weird you have pairing issues with the MTW, i don't have a pair that connects faster. And they the momentums i mean, connect instantly. All of my TWS pair pretty quickly, quickest to slowest are, Sennheiser momentums, Anbes 359, Ofusho f16, Shanling MTW 100BA Anker LP2 Pro. FWIW, i stopped in the middle of writing this post to confirm what i just said so i wasn't doing it from perceived memory. And theres also not a huge difference between them all, the LP2 pros take just about 5 seconds. So we're aren't talking about a crisis here haha. The Momentums, for all their flaws, say power on. connected and during that 1 second or so, i can hit the left earbud panel once to start music and the command is processed during the prompts and music starts up right after i hear connected. I agree with you on the boomy sound of the lp2 pros that's set by default, no matter what setting i use, i can't EQ enough bass out of them. Therees some sub bass i'd like to remove, but it's not bad enough to where i'd want to return them. Glad i was able to get alot of the bass out though, cause theres just wayyyyy to much be default and with a lot of the presets within the app. I am not a fan of the default sound on the momentums either. I was considering returning the LP2 pros because i really don't need them, but they're a great product for the discounted price i got them for and great in general. i've also been curious about the DD version of the Shanlings, because i agree. The BA ones just need a hair mor volume but just a touch.


----------



## webvan (Nov 16, 2019)

@Uncle00Jesse

The Amazon Echo Buds with Bose ANR ! They're a good compromise between the APP and the XM3 at...half the price. The fit is a lot better than the XM3s, the wings can make them completely secure, they're not deep insertion like the XM3s but still have better passive isolation. The SQ is very pleasing with the BA driver providing excellent "accuracy". Alexa is handy (can be turned off) too.


----------



## Pete7874

Is there a way to tell how much charge is left in Liberty 2?  Is there a low battery indicator on the earphones themselves?


----------



## bronco1015

Sam L said:


> ah, interesting. Just got the note 10 plus. I typically use a rooted Android phone to utilize viper4android. I am pleasantly surprised at how effective Samsung's Adapt Sound is! By the way, not sure why people knock the akg oem headset and rush to look for a tws replacement -- after eq'ing the akg's with Adapt Sound, they sound better most (all?) the TWS' out there.


 Did the note10 plus come with some TWS by AKG? Or are you talking about the wired set that comes with the s10 and note 10 lines? i set up my mom's s10 a few weeks ago, and was 99% sure she wasn't going to use those instead of the jabras and qc 35s she uses, and i was right. Took them for a backup pair to have in my computer bag, and they really don't sound terrible even for a freeby/add-on. not to mention they have a comfortable fit.


----------



## mattedialdoc

ScottPilgrim said:


> And I abhor the airpods.
> 
> Thanks in advance for guiding an explorer on his journey.



Have you tried the APP? The may not be the best audiophile , but they are pretty damn nice


----------



## bronco1015

tma6 said:


> Damn... just returned the Jabra 75t after like 15 minutes of use based on SQ alone. Some of the worst sounding tws I’ve tried in a while. Bass is boomy and completely artificial - basically sounds like you’re listening to a crappy subwoofer through a wall. I legitimately wanted to stop listening to them. The mids are also artificial sounding, and the highs are tinny, with no definition or crispiness, and when I put on the treble eq to reduce bass they became very harsh. I’m not gonna dignify these with a full review bc it would have been difficult to have to listen to these any more than I already have. Other than the awful sq, case is decent and the comfort is good. The hear through feature was mediocre and somehow made them sound even worse. Calls seemed alright but AirPods pro are way better. Actually the AirPods pro are so much better than these at every level it’s not even a fair comparison. But tbh that’s really not saying much. Overall, just an absolute no go from me.


Damn! That's disapointing to read. I still may give these a test run if i can get them for 50% off through work like i did the 65t's, but even then because of the imbalance, and some other things, i still sold the 65t's anyway.


----------



## ld100

hifi80sman said:


> For those of you that were looking, the MPOW T5 is back in stock (Amazon US), but not on sale.
> https://www.amazon.com/Wireless-Mpow-Bluetooth-Featured-Cancelling/dp/B07SR1FTD4/




Worth getting? I am confused by reviews and the price seems too good.


----------



## tma6

Just returned the AirPods Pro. Enjoyed using them for the most part, but $250 is too high a price for that SQ. Back to my trusted Tevis.

And the search continues...

Might take a look at the L2P


----------



## tma6

Aaaand the L2P were still on sale for $40 off, so I got them loll. Seems like you guys like these a lot so will def do a full review if they make a good first impression. Any EQ presets I should try?


----------



## Slater (Nov 17, 2019)

*Modding the SSK/Anbes case to allow larger tips*

Some of you may remember when I modded my QCY QS1 case to allow the use of larger/different eartips:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/goi...re-we-there-yet.861024/page-494#post-14996945

Well, now it was time to tackle the SSK/Anbes 359 case.

I like the Sony MH755 tips on the SSK, which by far provides me with the best fit and sound of any other tip.



However, the MH755 tips wouldn’t fit with the stock case. I had to remove the eartips every time I put them away or to charge. That got old real quick.

Using a Sharpie, I marked the plastic where the Sony tips were hitting the upper and lower halves of the SSK case.

I then popped apart the 2 halves of the case, and sanded the material off the upper half of the case using a Dremel sanding drum:


The bottom half of the case was a bit more challenging. I could have just cut a hole in the plastic to create the clearance I needed, but I didn't want to do that. I had originally determined that the MH755 tips would have poked out the bottom of the SSK case slightly. So if I had just cut 2 holes in the bottom half of the case, the tips would have collected dust and dirt where they poked out. The bottom of the case somehow had to be pushed out to make room for the tips.

I needed a way to make 2 small convex domes, the exact size of the MH755 tips. I came up with the idea of using this metal forming punch, which is used in the jewelry industry to form sheets of precious metal into domed shapes:


I selected an appropriately-sized punch tool, heated the tip with a heat gun, and then gently pressed it into the plastic of the bottom case where the eartip hits:


The heated tool gently melted the plastic, allowing me to create domes where the tips touched:



Next I cleaned the plastic with lacquer thinner to remove the blue Sharpie ink:


At this point, I just had to snap the case back together and test the fit with the MH755 tips installed:



Perfect fit! There's plenty of room to spare, in case I ever wanted to install even larger tips (or foam tips, etc).

Now I can store and charge the buds with the MH755 tips installed, and they will stay nice and clean.

*Bonus mod:* I always hated how the L and R indicators were orange on orange color. Basically, impossible to read, as you can see a few photos above. This ambiguity causes a problem because it is possible to put the buds back into the charge case reversed (R bud in the L spot, and L bud in the R spot). When this is accidentally done, the buds will not charge. Therefore, I wanted to more easily identify the R and L side. A steady hand and an ultra-fine Sharpie was all it took, tracing over the stock orange L/R indicators:


----------



## Sam L

Mouseman said:


> I've spent the past hour with the L2Ps,and I am definitely impressed. They're bigger than I expected, but very comfortable in my ears. I have to run some tests on different tracks and with different sources, but the sound at first blush beats every other TWS unit I own by a longshot. They rival wired IEMs in terms of SQ and soundstage. Amazon HD is a real treat.
> 
> I only hear a faint hiss on poorly mastered tracks, I think it's the song and not the buds. More to come later.



Interesting. What are some of your favorite iems?


----------



## Sam L

bronco1015 said:


> Did the note10 plus come with some TWS by AKG? Or are you talking about the wired set that comes with the s10 and note 10 lines? i set up my mom's s10 a few weeks ago, and was 99% sure she wasn't going to use those instead of the jabras and qc 35s she uses, and i was right. Took them for a backup pair to have in my computer bag, and they really don't sound terrible even for a freeby/add-on. not to mention they have a comfortable fit.



Yep, was talking about the wired earphones that come with the phone. I think most people dismiss them as "they can't be that great if they are free."


----------



## galangerz

So using the Tevi, I was able to "drain" the battery twice thus far, but does this happen to anyone else?

The left earbud drains almost twice as fast as the right one. I'm guessing the left one is the master of the two since if I take both out at the same time, it would be prioritize, while the right one I'd have to manually connect, or pull out by itself. Would it make a difference if I pulled out the right one first, then the left one after?( I notice if I do it that way, both would eventually connect, however on my phone it would only show its connected to the right bud)

I guess at least, if the left one last around 6 or 7 hours, the right one would be at least 10 hours (from my experience)


----------



## hifi80sman

tma6 said:


> Aaaand the L2P were still on sale for $40 off, so I got them loll. Seems like you guys like these a lot so will def do a full review if they make a good first impression. Any EQ presets I should try?


Flat and Piano are good.  I think you'll like them.


----------



## Cretz42

ld100 said:


> Worth getting? I am confused by reviews and the price seems too good.



I would say best all around, under $50 absolutely no doubt. Maybe even under $100. The SQ, mic, mono mode for listening and calls, battery life, ipx7 rating. They should cost 3x the price. Just need some tips that allow them to sit deeper in the ear canal.


----------



## cwill

Cretz42 said:


> I would say best all around, under $50 absolutely no doubt. Maybe even under $100. The SQ, mic, mono mode for listening and calls, battery life, ipx7 rating. They should cost 3x the price. Just need some tips that allow them to sit deeper in the ear canal.


Speaking of that...will the Radio Shack tips which are longer, fit in the T5 case?


----------



## clerkpalmer

tma6 said:


> Just returned the AirPods Pro. Enjoyed using them for the most part, but $250 is too high a price for that SQ. Back to my trusted Tevis.
> 
> And the search continues...
> 
> Might take a look at the L2P



Do it!


----------



## clerkpalmer

Cretz42 said:


> I would say best all around, under $50 absolutely no doubt. Maybe even under $100. The SQ, mic, mono mode for listening and calls, battery life, ipx7 rating. They should cost 3x the price. Just need some tips that allow them to sit deeper in the ear canal.


I like the M5 for 50 but at 3 times the price the L2P destroys it.


----------



## jasaero (Nov 16, 2019)

bronco1015 said:


> Weird you have pairing issues with the MTW, i don't have a pair that connects faster. And they the momentums i mean, connect instantly. All of my TWS pair pretty quickly, quickest to slowest are, Sennheiser momentums, Anbes 359, Ofusho f16, Shanling MTW 100BA Anker LP2 Pro. FWIW, i stopped in the middle of writing this post to confirm what i just said so i wasn't doing it from perceived memory. And theres also not a huge difference between them all, the LP2 pros take just about 5 seconds. So we're aren't talking about a crisis here haha. The Momentums, for all their flaws, say power on. connected and during that 1 second or so, i can hit the left earbud panel once to start music and the command is processed during the prompts and music starts up right after i hear connected. I agree with you on the boomy sound of the lp2 pros that's set by default, no matter what setting i use, i can't EQ enough bass out of them. Therees some sub bass i'd like to remove, but it's not bad enough to where i'd want to return them. Glad i was able to get alot of the bass out though, cause theres just wayyyyy to much be default and with a lot of the presets within the app. I am not a fan of the default sound on the momentums either. I was considering returning the LP2 pros because i really don't need them, but they're a great product for the discounted price i got them for and great in general. i've also been curious about the DD version of the Shanlings, because i agree. The BA ones just need a hair mor volume but just a touch.



It wasn't pairing speed.  They just refused to pair once after I hadn't used them and had been messing with others.  Had to totally reset and still had troubles getting them to pair again.  Just a frustration I didn't have with others that all just worked mostly after I had initially paired them.  One or two might need manual force pair here and there, but those were the only ones that completely hosed up and wouldn't pair again.  Generally just wan't impressed for $250 bucks.  The MW07+ seemed to sound better and atleast give you a premium product with fancy materials if are willing to spend on that aspect.  And can now get the MW07 non plus that are similar premium setup for the same $250.  The LP2 for $120 tax and all are a great value.  The Acoustic preset sounds great, but sorta have to play with volume between phone and buds.  Seems that preset and ignoring volume control on buds and just putting it at max is the way to go...a lot of ways to get clipping at higher volumes though with that preset for whatever reason...don't need that level of volume though so it's fine.


----------



## ScottPilgrim

duo8 said:


> I too am appreciative of how true-wireless-ness solves some of the biggest issues I had with wired IEMs, namely restricted movement (when not plugged into a portable source) and microphonics (microphonics alone significantly hampered my enjoyment of the FLC8S).
> 
> Any Android device running 8.0+ can transmit LDAC, however there are no LDAC TWS earbuds.
> You could try the Airpods Pro, would go well with iOS devices and people have said they sound good.
> ...


I was under the impression of Sony WF1000XM3 allowing LDAC transmission. Could be wrong though. I love the convenience and the shape of the Galaxy buds, but can't be arsed to let go of the reliability of iOS, especially after jailbreak. 



Luchyres said:


> The L2P do get a lot of love on here these days - but I would suggest the Nuarl NT01AX as it is still my daily driver. The bass isn't quite as full as the L2P - but overall it is clear and has more immersive mids to my ears than the L2P.
> 
> I'm also keen to see what Nuarl come out with next (N6Pro) - but you may be able to find the NT01AX for sale because of the new N6 soon. (Amazon)



Thank you for the suggestion! I am really keen to try out the Nuarl, but still on the fence based on brand recognition and value proposition. 



go0gle said:


> I listen to a lot of electronic music and the lp2 shine there, especially with the custom EQs in the app.
> 
> I have the AirPod pros , it’s no contest



Awesome! I was actually leaning towards the L2P but was really set off by the reviews on Amazon. 



mattedialdoc said:


> Have you tried the APP? The may not be the best audiophile , but they are pretty damn nice



I generally do not like the form factor of the APP. the stems hanging out is a massive turn-off for me, regardless of it's implementation and functionality. Thank you for the suggestion though, I'll try them out as soon as demos appear in local apple stores.


----------



## Pete7874

Pete7874 said:


> Is there a way to tell how much charge is left in Liberty 2?  Is there a low battery indicator on the earphones themselves?


So, it appears you need to rely on your device's ability to display battery level.


----------



## hifi80sman

Uncle00Jesse said:


> So I’ve spent nearly a month each with APP and the XM3 using an iPhone XR. XM3 sounds infinitely better to me. On the “excited” eq preset, much more energy, soundstage, separation, and fuller sounding. The fit I found to be okay but a little bulky. The case is obviously horrible.
> 
> in terms of NC I can’t see how some are saying APP is better. You really can’t get a super quality seal with the APP, it’s a really shallow, tip only seal. While they are secure and not going anywhere, it just gives you a slight feeling that they aren’t really tight, and I hate that. I’m on NYC subways everyday. With music on 75%+ volume you cannot hear any outside noise with the XM3s. It’s really awesome. APP while fine, still leaks in some high pitched stuff, bursts of laughter, subway screeches etc.
> 
> ...


The APP are almost perfect.  Even if they just added a global EQ option within iOS for the APP, they would be a strong buy.  I had them, but like you, the SQ left me wanting and I had to return them.

I also have the XM3 and they completely destroy the APP in terms of SQ.  I think the ANC is better as well, as the "vent" design of the APP seemed to let in a lot more "clanging" and higher-pitched sounds than the XM3.  Overall, combined passive and active noise attenuation is better with the XM3.  That being said, the fit is not the most comfortable out of the box, so I did some tip rolling and ended up using the L eartips from the Sony WI-C200 (I bought these for my wife, as she likes the cord to wrap around the neck when not listening).  I believe these same eartips are found on many of Sony's entry level corded earbuds at your local Target, WalMart, etc.  They allow for a little deeper insertion (stick out marginally less) and fit more securely.  I don't notice any difference in noise cancellation performance.


----------



## clerkpalmer

ScottPilgrim said:


> I was under the impression of Sony WF1000XM3 allowing LDAC transmission. Could be wrong though. I love the convenience and the shape of the Galaxy buds, but can't be arsed to let go of the reliability of iOS, especially after jailbreak.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


No LDAC on the sony true wireless sadly


----------



## hifi80sman

Pete7874 said:


> So, it appears you need to rely on your device's ability to display battery level.


You can also look in the app.  It'll display the battery for each bud.


----------



## ScottPilgrim

clerkpalmer said:


> No LDAC on the sony true wireless sadly


That's indeed a bummer as LDAC is sony's very own tech ... hopefully the next iteration will have something. 

Do you guys have any opinion the CKR7TW by Audio Technica by any chance?


----------



## Pete7874

hifi80sman said:


> You can also look in the app.  It'll display the battery for each bud.


Right, that's what I meant by "rely on your device."  If your device is not a phone/tablet but a DAP that's not Android or iOS based, then there would be no way to tell.


----------



## HiFlight

bronco1015 said:


> Damn! That's disapointing to read. I still may give these a test run if i can get them for 50% off through work like i did the 65t's, but even then because of the imbalance, and some other things, i still sold the 65t's anyway.


My impressions of the 75t differ from those quoted.


----------



## pokenguyen

I just received my L2P today, and the hype is real, the sound is amazing. The default EQ is bad, I tried many EQ and I always come back to Piano EQ. Here is my comparison with MW07 Go. L2P has boomy bass, recessed voice, it sounds more full, more complete, with more mid bass than MW07, however MW07 bass and treble sound more refined and controlled, and to me it sounds more natural and punchy than L2P. The vocal of MW07 is also smoother than L2P. The soundstage is also similar. 

There are many EQ options in L2P but I couldn't find anything close to MW07, they have clearly different sound signature. I will prefer SQ of MW07, it just makes the songs sound so musical to me, I sometimes sing a long with MW07, but not L2P.

Taking the price and discount of L2P in account, I have to say MW07+ is not worth it, but MW07 Go is a good choice if you don't care about anc.

I will return my L2P and finish the journey of TWS with MW07 Go.

My ranking:
MW07 > L2P > Sony WF1000XM3 > Sennheiser > Cambridge Audio.


----------



## tma6 (Nov 16, 2019)

HiFlight said:


> My impressions of the 75t differ from those quoted.



thats good to hear! I really don’t know what was wrong w the set I got. It sounded awful. I cant imagine that’s what it was supposed to sound like.

what are your impressions?


----------



## dweaver (Nov 16, 2019)

Well, I was tempted by the APP and then I briefly thought about the Jabra 75T, and the Sony WF-1000XM3 was almost bought a few times. But with a $20 savings I ended up going L2P because it just sounds like what I want signature wise and it has most of the features I want. The 75T was tempting because of its size and dual device support but I keep hearing it is really bass heavy and I just dont think it would suit me.

So L2P on the way. Hopefully it will be my last purchase for a while. Will post how I like them after they arrive. Really hoping no hiss with my pair...


----------



## gibletzor

For Galaxy Buds users, there's a new firmware out recently.

Not sure that I've ever experienced issues with connection stability though.


----------



## bronco1015

tma6 said:


> Aaaand the L2P were still on sale for $40 off, so I got them loll. Seems like you guys like these a lot so will def do a full review if they make a good first impression. Any EQ presets I should try?


The preset i ended up setling on is the bass reducer setting. The piano one isn't to bad, the flat one as well, but one thing i will say is that when i made the switch, it didn't happen right away. Yes the bass was lessened, but it was still to much and literally gave me a headache. Which i know, sounds whiny, i just say that because i couldn't believe how intense it was. how much i felt it. Then i put the buds in their case, didn't reset them but did unpair and pair again, and theres a huge difference. one way i'd describe my experience with them is that there isn't excessive amounts of bass when it isn't called for, like when i played the Title Track to the Drag me to Hell soundtrack, or various jazz and classical pieces. but when the bass is in the mix, there are times when it can be to much and or a little sloppy. In the end i really like these though.


----------



## bronco1015

HiFlight said:


> My impressions of the 75t differ from those quoted.


What are your thoughts on them?


----------



## magi44ken

pokenguyen said:


> I just received my L2P today, and the hype is real, the sound is amazing.
> My ranking:
> MW07 > L2P > Sony WF1000XM3 > Sennheiser > Cambridge Audio.



How the mic quality in a busy or loud environment like during busy traffic or coffee shop? Thanks


----------



## pokenguyen

magi44ken said:


> How the mic quality in a busy or loud environment like during busy traffic or coffee shop? Thanks


Well I only care about SQ so I don't have time to test mic and anc.


----------



## Pete7874

bronco1015 said:


> The preset i ended up setling on is the bass reducer setting.


Funny how we all prefer different sound signatures.  Not sure if L2P has different bass than L2, but with my L2, I prefer the Bass Boost EQ.  Otherwise, I just find the bass lacking.  Possibly I am not getting the best sealing against my ear canals, but I've tried all the different tips they came with, and still find the bass lacking unless I boost it.  And with Bass Boost EQ in place, treble also feels reduced, which I like.


----------



## magi44ken

pokenguyen said:


> Well I only care about SQ so I don't have time to test mic and anc.



I understand. Hope you get a chance to test the mic and wanted to confirm two pro reviews saying it is as good as Apple Airpod Pro due to the 2 mics on each Bud.


----------



## WesennTony

A little bit losing my mind in early morning the other day, I ordered Aviot TE-D01b when their price dropped to $165 on amazon. No expectation whatsoever, just curious how they rival against nuarl nt01ax. Surprisingly, they're the best TWS in terms of SQ so far for my ears, dethroning nt01ax and MW07 go.

They have the lowest noise floor. Almost dead silent. After a week of testing L2P, the difference was immediately realized. They have neutral sound sig, tuned toward reference monitor. The bass is tight with good layers, though the amount is sufficient but not for basshead. They shine in mids and highs. Clean, crisp, accurate, and presented with authority. The most impressive part is that, despite still lack of details comparing with high-end wired IEMS, they're as good as those to de-digitize the sound without any micro-pierce and high volume cracking/clipping. I can't imagine that the lossy BT signals can be transformed to such high quality sound. The attention to perfection in SQ throughout whole spectrum is second to none. Comparing with nt01ax, they have a slightly smaller sound stage, less bass, but better clarity in mids, and almost identical in other aspects. The tonality of Aviot leans toward "audiophile" type reference monitor, while nt01ax toward consumer. 

The stock tips give a thinner sound. The spiral dots do the trick perfectly.

They're light, smaller than I assumed, and very comfortable. Sound isolation is very good as well. and IPX7. Call quality is good as well. Had a call for about 30mins, without any complaints from the other side. 

The cons are a large charging case (about double the length of that in nt01ax and MW07 though thinner) and limited button controls. Only play/pause and skip forward, same on both sides.  And only Japanese quick guide. I have to google to learn how to use them.

I don't think they'll attract much attention since the sound sig does not follow the mainstream trend.  But the craftsmanship in SQ is in their own league. They're definitely a keeper for me, and I'm now etching for Aviot's new flagship, TE-BD21f,  a hybrid with 2BAs and 1 DD.


----------



## ld100 (Nov 16, 2019)

Pete7874 said:


> Funny how we all prefer different sound signatures.  Not sure if L2P has different bass than L2, but with my L2, I prefer the Bass Boost EQ.  Otherwise, I just find the bass lacking.  Possibly I am not getting the best sealing against my ear canals, but I've tried all the different tips they came with, and still find the bass lacking unless I boost it.  And with Bass Boost EQ in place, treble also feels reduced, which I like.



I been burned many times by getting headphones that supposedly were the best thing since sliced bread just to discover that they were total trash. While certainly we hear things differently and often fit and this that that make a lot of difference a few times I discovered that people who review things are completely unqualified to state their opinion. And these days with youtube and other platforms everyone wants to be a reviewer...


----------



## dweaver (Nov 16, 2019)

My other choice I was thinking about was the Lypertek Tevi as it has IPX7 and an even better battery life. But I also enjoy more bass so thought again the L2P was a better option. But if I have any issues with the L2P I may try the Tevi instead.


----------



## HiFlight (Nov 16, 2019)

tma6 said:


> thats good to hear! I really don’t know what was wrong w the set I got. It sounded awful. I cant imagine that’s what it was supposed to sound like.
> 
> what are your impressions?


My initial impressions from yesterday:

"Some of my comments regarding the 75t:

Out of the box they will please a basshead, which I am not. I found mine needed an update to the firmware which took about 15 minutes using the excellent Jabra Sound+ app, the use of which I consider to be a necessity. I was able to quickly create an EQ curve that matched my listening preferences. Tonally, they still sounded somewhat off but I discovered that they were using the SBC codec. Switching to AAC improved the overall tonality and timbre considerably.
Overall, I am very pleased and consider them to be a definite upgrade to my 75t. Buttons are much easier to press than on the 75t and all controls are working flawlessly. Connectivity has been rock solid so far and the phones are extremely comfortable."

Without the use of the Sound+ app, I wouldn't have been able to tolerate the excessive bass, but is easy to use the app to create a custom preset that is remembered even without the use of the app.   Do heed the prominent sticker that recommends first updating the firmware!
Also, after first device pairing, it is necessary to press each multifunction button simultaneously for 3 seconds to place them in the pairing mode again for each new device.  The app is quite capable once you get familiar with its use.


----------



## FYLegend

USB-C? Wireless charging? What about SOLAR charging?!?! You can get a discount if you reserve it, but it asks for 1$ to lock in your reservation...
http://launch.pearlbuds.com/

The design sure looks nice. Not so sure about the location tracking or codecs though...


----------



## dweaver

Those look very interesting but I am very wary about startups like this, especially with technology like ANC, not to mention just overall sound quality. But they might just be the bees knees


----------



## Jules7

Sam L said:


> Yep, was talking about the wired earphones that come with the phone. I think most people dismiss them as "they can't be that great if they are free."


Glad i'm not the only one who thought so. When my Wife first got her S10, I checked out the wired AKG that came with it and was very impressed with the SQ especially when its just 'earphones that came with a smartphone'.
It only took very minimal EQ adjustment to make it sound the way i like!


----------



## duo8

dweaver said:


> Those look very interesting but I am very wary about startups like this, especially with technology like ANC, not to mention just overall sound quality. But they might just be the bees knees


They can just buy ANC from qualcomm anyway, don't have to develop it.


----------



## carlosonunez

tma6 said:


> Damn... just returned the Jabra 75t after like 15 minutes of use based on SQ alone. Some of the worst sounding tws I’ve tried in a while. Bass is boomy and completely artificial - basically sounds like you’re listening to a crappy subwoofer through a wall. I legitimately wanted to stop listening to them. The mids are also artificial sounding, and the highs are tinny, with no definition or crispiness, and when I put on the treble eq to reduce bass they became very harsh. I’m not gonna dignify these with a full review bc it would have been difficult to have to listen to these any more than I already have. Other than the awful sq, case is decent and the comfort is good. The hear through feature was mediocre and somehow made them sound even worse. Calls seemed alright but AirPods pro are way better. Actually the AirPods pro are so much better than these at every level it’s not even a fair comparison. But tbh that’s really not saying much. Overall, just an absolute no go from me.



Good lookin out. I was thinking of grabbing these (am currently now on just the AirPods Pro, which have been amazing); you saved me a trip


----------



## bronco1015 (Nov 17, 2019)

Pete7874 said:


> Funny how we all prefer different sound signatures.  Not sure if L2P has different bass than L2, but with my L2, I prefer the Bass Boost EQ.  Otherwise, I just find the bass lacking.  Possibly I am not getting the best sealing against my ear canals, but I've tried all the different tips they came with, and still find the bass lacking unless I boost it.  And with Bass Boost EQ in place, treble also feels reduced, which I like.[/QUOTE
> 
> 
> Pete7874 said:
> ...


----------



## go0gle (Nov 17, 2019)

As far as the EQ settings for the LP2, its strictly personal, and it really depends on what you are listening to.
To my ear

for anything analog (jazz, rock, blues, classical etc.) the acoustic, rock, and piano sound the best depending on the track.
for anything digitally produced (techno, house, any of the numerous edm genres) the electronic sounds best.
for hip-hop and rap I just use the factory one or the r&b



WesennTony said:


> A little bit losing my mind in early morning the other day, I ordered Aviot TE-D01b when their price dropped to $165 on amazon. No expectation whatsoever, just curious how they rival against nuarl nt01ax. Surprisingly, they're the best TWS in terms of SQ so far for my ears, dethroning nt01ax and MW07 go.
> 
> They have the lowest noise floor. Almost dead silent. After a week of testing L2P, the difference was immediately realized. They have neutral sound sig, tuned toward reference monitor. The bass is tight with good layers, though the amount is sufficient but not for basshead. They shine in mids and highs. Clean, crisp, accurate, and presented with authority. The most impressive part is that, despite still lack of details comparing with high-end wired IEMS, they're as good as those to de-digitize the sound without any micro-pierce and high volume cracking/clipping. I can't imagine that the lossy BT signals can be transformed to such high quality sound. The attention to perfection in SQ throughout whole spectrum is second to none. Comparing with nt01ax, they have a slightly smaller sound stage, less bass, but better clarity in mids, and almost identical in other aspects. The tonality of Aviot leans toward "audiophile" type reference monitor, while nt01ax toward consumer.
> 
> ...



I am very interested to try the Aviot TE-D01b. How's the battery life ? They are quoting ~9hrs, but the battery inside is 45mA vs 65mA for the LP2 .. somehow I don't buy it, but maybe the 3026 chipset is way more efficient. 

It makes sense that the low end isn't as powerful, the dynamic driver in the lp2 is almost twice the size at 11mm vs. 6mm. That's not say that the Aviots don't sound better, just pointing that out


----------



## DigDub (Nov 17, 2019)

I've got a Sony Xperia 5 phone recently and it's the first device I have that actually supports the Qualcomm True Wireless Stereo Plus standard where each bud connects to the phone directly instead of a master/slave configuration. I can use either the left or right mpow t5 buds individually, where with other phones, only the right bud is master and putting it in the case will shut down the left bud too. And the battery life of both buds can be seen on the phone without any special app, where with other phones only the battery life of the connected master bud can be seen.


----------



## bronco1015

DigDub said:


> I've got a Sony Xperia 5 phone recently and it's the first device I have that actually supports the Qualcomm True Wireless Stereo Plus standard where each bud connects to the phone directly instead of a master/slave configuration. I can use either the left or right mpow t5 buds individually, where with other phones, only the right bud is master and putting it in the case will shut down the left bud too. And the battery life of both buds can be seen on the phone without any special app, where with other phones only the battery life of the connected master bud can be seen.


both my phones support TWS plus, and every pair of TW iems i've tried that have the same chipset as the T5 have supported it. In each case though, or with any true Wireless pair that can function in mono mode, once i've paired the first one i see, whether the L or R, once the pairing is complete i get a prompt asking if i want to pair to the other bud. I hit yes and it works flawlesly every time. it's possible i got a defective T5, as the right earbud started having imbalance issues just a couple weeks in to owning them. yes they were clean lol. Or maybe i just missed the prompt when i connected them. Glad the feature works for you though. i'd wondered if it was just a bogus claim, or if Mpow hadn't implemented it.


----------



## pokenguyen

WesennTony said:


> A little bit losing my mind in early morning the other day, I ordered Aviot TE-D01b when their price dropped to $165 on amazon. No expectation whatsoever, just curious how they rival against nuarl nt01ax. Surprisingly, they're the best TWS in terms of SQ so far for my ears, dethroning nt01ax and MW07 go.
> 
> They have the lowest noise floor. Almost dead silent. After a week of testing L2P, the difference was immediately realized. They have neutral sound sig, tuned toward reference monitor. The bass is tight with good layers, though the amount is sufficient but not for basshead. They shine in mids and highs. Clean, crisp, accurate, and presented with authority. The most impressive part is that, despite still lack of details comparing with high-end wired IEMS, they're as good as those to de-digitize the sound without any micro-pierce and high volume cracking/clipping. I can't imagine that the lossy BT signals can be transformed to such high quality sound. The attention to perfection in SQ throughout whole spectrum is second to none. Comparing with nt01ax, they have a slightly smaller sound stage, less bass, but better clarity in mids, and almost identical in other aspects. The tonality of Aviot leans toward "audiophile" type reference monitor, while nt01ax toward consumer.
> 
> ...


Can you compare with MW07? Bass vocal soundstage siblance?


----------



## paddyberger

What tips are being used with the LP2? I’ve been using Spinfits with my MPOW T5 and mostly symbio Peels with my wired ones.


----------



## Pete7874 (Nov 17, 2019)

bronco1015 said:
			
		

> Hifi80sman has owned both IIRC, wonder what his comparison of the 2 would be. I feel like i saw a review somewhere else that said the l2P had mor bass.


It very well could be the case since L2 uses 10mm drivers while L2P uses 11mm drivers, while external enclosures appear to be the same size.

Now I'm tempted to order L2P myself just to compare sound differences for myself and then return the loser.  There is currently only about a $20 difference between the two.


----------



## clerkpalmer

If anyone is looking for mw07, my Go model is in the classifieds. Grey color. Little use. Switching to iOS so not ideal at this time. M&D support claims that AAC enabling is coming and can be done retroactively but there is no time table for the fix. Missed my return window. Thought it was 30 but 14 days from M&D.


----------



## WesennTony (Nov 17, 2019)

go0gle said:


> I am very interested to try the Aviot TE-D01b. How's the battery life ? They are quoting ~9hrs, but the battery inside is 45mA vs 65mA for the LP2 .. somehow I don't buy it, but maybe the 3026 chipset is way more efficient.
> 
> It makes sense that the low end isn't as powerful, the dynamic driver in the lp2 is almost twice the size at 11mm vs. 6mm. That's not say that the Aviots don't sound better, just pointing that out



I've never use TWS for 9hrs straight unless on flight. I just tried this morning for 1.5hrs at ~80-90% volume level in my phone. The battery on the master bud dropped from 98% to 72%. Then I put them back to charging case and took out to switch the master. The battery had 87% left. Considering aptX which consumes more power, their claim may be about right. Some online reviews also confirmed their claim.



pokenguyen said:


> Can you compare with MW07? Bass vocal soundstage siblance?



With the same spiral dots tips on both buds, MW07 are darker/warmer with rolled off highs. The best part of MW07 is the unique bass from 10mm Be driver which no other TWS can compete. They have almost identical sound stage. Other than that, Aviot win over mids and highs, image to my ears. Just so clear and natural. The mids are slightly more forward on Aviot. Both have negligible siblance unless the music has it. Also MW07 add a bit more excitement to the music, which could be good or bad. Most of the time I listen to slow-tempo pops, rocks, vocals and classics, so Aviot is a clear winner, but I prefer MW07 for gym use for fast-tempo, bass-heavy songs to get energized. Also MW07s have much better button controls. They feel more secure as well due to the fit wings, though I didn't need to adjust Aviot during my last strength training at gym.

Listening to all of the three for quite some time now, I feel that  MW07, just like nt01ax, spend more time on the design of the echo chamber to improve the sound, while Aviot focus more on meticulously fine-tuning the sound itself. After the test, I read the description more carefully on Amazon website. It states that  "We selected a high-speed, wide range high-grade driver, conducted a long listening test, carefully sound-tuned 0.1 db unit for each frequency". That's exactly how I perceived: they try to make the sound curve flawless at each frequency.  Don't say others don't do that, but Aviot put it to the extreme.


----------



## pokenguyen

WesennTony said:


> I've never use TWS for 9hrs straight unless on flight. I just tried this morning for 1.5hrs at ~80-90% volume level in my phone. The battery on the master bud dropped from 98% to 72%. Then I put them back to charging case and took out to switch the master. The battery had 87% left. Considering aptX which consumes more power, their claim may be about right. Some online reviews also confirmed their claim.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Thank you, it doesn't sound like my taste.

Anyway, I tried to listen L2P more, but I can't enjoy them as much as MW07. Will return it soon.


----------



## gibletzor

paddyberger said:


> What tips are being used with the LP2? I’ve been using Spinfits with my MPOW T5 and mostly symbio Peels with my wired ones.



I'm curious about this too.  So far my favorites with them are my medium JVC Spiral Dots.


----------



## clerkpalmer

clerkpalmer said:


> If anyone is looking for mw07, my Go model is in the classifieds. Grey color. Little use. Switching to iOS so not ideal at this time. M&D support claims that AAC enabling is coming and can be done retroactively but there is no time table for the fix. Missed my return window. Thought it was 30 but 14 days from M&D.


Not gonna lie, mw07 sound pretty good on my iPhone.


----------



## tma6

clerkpalmer said:


> Not gonna lie, mw07 sound pretty good on my iPhone.



Yup. You had a chance to test the mic quality on the Go?


----------



## sarv (Nov 17, 2019)

Does anyone know something about the new 1more anc tws? Been holding out for then over a month now. they said it's gonna be out 11th nov but nothing so far...


----------



## tma6

sarv said:


> Does anyone know something about the new 1more anc tws? Been holding out for then over a month now.



Apparently not out till January. Really looking forward to trying them


----------



## clerkpalmer

tma6 said:


> Apparently not out till January. Really looking forward to trying them


I was told January for official US release. Japan release is a few weeks away.


----------



## sarv

clerkpalmer said:


> I was told January for official US release. Japan release is a few weeks away.


https://hifigo.com/products/1more-e...river-tws-earbuds?_pos=3&_sid=131219f99&_ss=r

Says they're gonna ship it in November, not sure how reliable this site is never bought anything from them before.


----------



## duo8

sarv said:


> https://hifigo.com/products/1more-e...river-tws-earbuds?_pos=3&_sid=131219f99&_ss=r
> 
> Says they're gonna ship it in November, not sure how reliable this site is never bought anything from them before.


I remember that site stealing a teardown article from 52audio.


----------



## clerkpalmer

sarv said:


> https://hifigo.com/products/1more-e...river-tws-earbuds?_pos=3&_sid=131219f99&_ss=r
> 
> Says they're gonna ship it in November, not sure how reliable this site is never bought anything from them before.


They are pretty responsive over messenger. I have a message into them. Originally were going to ship last week but a firmware update delayed them. I’ll report back.


----------



## sarv

clerkpalmer said:


> They are pretty responsive over messenger. I have a message into them. Originally were going to ship last week but a firmware update delayed them. I’ll report back.


Yeah just emailed them cos I was gonna order them today, keep us updated, thx man


----------



## Bartig

Got the Aiwa Prodigy Air, Bomaker Sifi and the Haylou GT2. It doesn’t really make a difference whether you’re spending 20 dollars anymore, or 60. They all compete with each other.


----------



## Luchyres

WesennTony said:


> I've never use TWS for 9hrs straight unless on flight. I just tried this morning for 1.5hrs at ~80-90% volume level in my phone. The battery on the master bud dropped from 98% to 72%. Then I put them back to charging case and took out to switch the master. The battery had 87% left. Considering aptX which consumes more power, their claim may be about right. Some online reviews also confirmed their claim.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Appreciate your insights and the comparison with Nuarl - I suspect you may be right about the " resonance chamber" approach for the Nuarl.

The Aviot *sounds* interesting - but I just can't do it with that case lol. 

Curious to know more about their imminent hybrid/new offerings - let us know if you buy them!


----------



## jant71

WesennTony said:


> A little bit losing my mind in early morning the other day, I ordered Aviot TE-D01b when their price dropped to $165 on amazon. No expectation whatsoever, just curious how they rival against nuarl nt01ax. Surprisingly, they're the best TWS in terms of SQ so far for my ears, dethroning nt01ax and MW07 go.
> 
> I don't think they'll attract much attention since the sound sig does not follow the mainstream trend.  But the craftsmanship in SQ is in their own league. They're definitely a keeper for me, and I'm now etching for Aviot's new flagship, TE-BD21f,  a hybrid with 2BAs and 1 DD.



 Isn't it fair you give Nuarl a shot too and try the N6/6 Pro and compare against the Aviot Flagship. Or else you'll never know which is the King or your hill.


----------



## XGUGU (Nov 17, 2019)

Thsese look tempting, huge battery in case
20-40KHz seems quite extended.
Will be priced for $100 but now at $29
aptx LL, Graphene Driver, Nice design
https://www.nowsugar.com/products/8...P1iE4fYgbpUs5-NKCwPOnCHoNmIQccEu2MKC2Y6p7s22s


----------



## geoxile

XGUGU said:


> Thsese look tempting, huge battery in case
> 20-40KHz seems quite extended.
> Will be priced for $100 but now at $29
> aptx LL, Graphene Driver, Nice design
> https://www.nowsugar.com/products/8...P1iE4fYgbpUs5-NKCwPOnCHoNmIQccEu2MKC2Y6p7s22s



A MONTH of battery! I don't know, reads almost like a scam


----------



## Pete7874

hifi80sman said:


> Certainly, I cannot guarantee the pair you receive will be the same as mine, but there is a stark difference between the 2 and because of the gap in availability, I can only assume Amazon's stock is all the "new version".


Based on some of the recent comments on Amazon, it appears some people are still complaining about hissing on their newly arrived L2P.

Mine are coming in tomorrow.

There is definitely some baseline hiss in my L2, regardless of source signal volume or earphone volume, but whether one would consider it abnormal/excessive, I'm not sure.  At the volume that I usually listen to, it wouldn't be noticeable.


----------



## onree

XGUGU said:


> Thsese look tempting, huge battery in case
> 20-40KHz seems quite extended.
> Will be priced for $100 but now at $29
> aptx LL, Graphene Driver, Nice design
> https://www.nowsugar.com/products/8...P1iE4fYgbpUs5-NKCwPOnCHoNmIQccEu2MKC2Y6p7s22s



Looks amazing, but I've been scammed by random Shopify vendors before (ended with a credit card dispute). Anyone ever hear of this vendor?


----------



## bronco1015

Pete7874 said:


> It very well could be the case since L2 uses 10mm drivers while L2P uses 11mm drivers, while external enclosures appear to be the same size.
> 
> Now I'm tempted to order L2P myself just to compare sound differences for myself and then return the loser.  There is currently only about a $20 difference between the two.


Theres a code someone shared that takes the L2P from $149 to $109. 
JIMMYL2P 
If someone already shared that again my bad. Thought i'd just repost since it was shared like 20ish pages back or so.


----------



## willyk

Pete7874 said:


> Based on some of the recent comments on Amazon, it appears some people are still complaining about hissing on their newly arrived L2P.
> 
> Mine are coming in tomorrow.
> 
> There is definitely some baseline hiss in my L2, regardless of source signal volume or earphone volume, but whether one would consider it abnormal/excessive, I'm not sure.  At the volume that I usually listen to, it wouldn't be noticeable.


Yup.  I've been eyeing the L2P's for Christmas gifts.  But, I'd need to know that I am giving something that actually works well.
Leaning towards the GBuds at the moment.


----------



## clerkpalmer

willyk said:


> Yup.  I've been eyeing the L2P's for Christmas gifts.  But, I'd need to know that I am giving something that actually works well.
> Leaning towards the GBuds at the moment.


I still hear hiss. It’s much better than before and it’s no worse than something like a bt20s (better probably). It doesn’t interfere with the music. But if you want a silent noise floor, look elsewhere.


----------



## MLTwee

sarv said:


> Does anyone know something about the new 1more anc tws? Been holding out for then over a month now. they said it's gonna be out 11th nov but nothing so far...


It's on pre order from TaoBao on the 11th Nov and will start shipping 10 days later which is the 21th. The current shipping date if u order from the site will be 15th Dec.


----------



## Pete7874

bronco1015 said:


> Theres a code someone shared that takes the L2P from $149 to $109.
> JIMMYL2P
> If someone already shared that again my bad. Thought i'd just repost since it was shared like 20ish pages back or so.


Yup, which is why I mentioned the $20 difference between L2P ($110) and L2 ($90) currently.


----------



## Pete7874

clerkpalmer said:


> I still hear hiss. It’s much better than before and it’s no worse than something like a bt20s (better probably). It doesn’t interfere with the music. But if you want a silent noise floor, look elsewhere.


So which sub $100 TWS out there are completely silent?  Based on what I've read here before, none of them are.


----------



## willyk

clerkpalmer said:


> I still hear hiss. It’s much better than before and it’s no worse than something like a bt20s (better probably). It doesn’t interfere with the music. But if you want a silent noise floor, look elsewhere.


Thanks for your feedback.
I hear no appreciable "hiss" in my MPow T5's or Tranya B530's.  If the LP2's have more hiss then these TWS's, I'll pass.


----------



## clerkpalmer

willyk said:


> Thanks for your feedback.
> I hear no appreciable "hiss" in my MPow T5's or Tranya B530's.  If the LP2's have more hiss then these TWS's, I'll pass.


Yes I think they do.


----------



## WesennTony

jant71 said:


> Isn't it fair you give Nuarl a shot too and try the N6/6 Pro and compare against the Aviot Flagship. Or else you'll never know which is the King or your hill.


There is no King of Hills, just Game of De-thrones. 
I'm eyeing on N6 pro as well. Maybe I can get them even earlier than Aviot.


----------



## blacksesame

Not sure if anyone has any experience with alien secret qcc010??
It seems to have all the specs and wireless charging.. I've ordered it from ali. So in a month from now I'll let you guys know how it is.


----------



## chinmie

blacksesame said:


> Not sure if anyone has any experience with alien secret qcc010??
> It seems to have all the specs and wireless charging.. I've ordered it from ali. So in a month from now I'll let you guys know how it is.



I'm also eyeing it on the last sale, but decided to purchase other TWS that has better discounts.
I'm looking forward for your thoughts on it


----------



## jasaero

sarv said:


> https://hifigo.com/products/1more-e...river-tws-earbuds?_pos=3&_sid=131219f99&_ss=r
> 
> Says they're gonna ship it in November, not sure how reliable this site is never bought anything from them before.



I got Shanling from them.  They use iffy shipper with free shipping, but they made it after awhile.


----------



## blacksesame

chinmie said:


> I'm also eyeing it on the last sale, but decided to purchase other TWS that has better discounts.
> I'm looking forward for your thoughts on it



It'll be my first TWS.. to be honest i have pretty low expectations. I just hope it doesn't have connection issues. but i'll report back once I get it


----------



## tracyca

Klipsh t5 on sale on amazon 149.00 usd


----------



## Quicky32

I haven't tried any bluetooth earbuds...debating TWS or a sports style.


----------



## Pete7874 (Nov 17, 2019)

FYI, i just got a firmware 1.15 update for my Liberty 2.  All it said was "bug fixes."  I haven't noticed any differences in operation so far, alas it appears this FW version has been available for over a month now.  Not sure why I have not received it sooner.


----------



## duo8

willyk said:


> Yup.  I've been eyeing the L2P's for Christmas gifts.  But, I'd need to know that I am giving something that actually works well.
> Leaning towards the GBuds at the moment.


If you're concerned about hiss I didn't notice any while using the galaxy buds.


----------



## dweaver

Sure hope I dont get this hiss issue, I hear a bit of hiss with my NAD Viso HP70 and while not a deal breaker it is a bit annoying, so I can hear hissing if its strong enough.


----------



## matokt

Recommendations for ear-tips that fit the Sabbat E12 ultra? 
The ones that came with does not fit my ear at all  I guess I have too small ears.


----------



## jlo mein

For audio quality, has anyone noticed a difference depending on what you set your TWS earbud volume vs source volume at?

Eg: high earbud vol, low source vol
High source vol, low earbud vol
Mid vol on each


----------



## duo8

jlo mein said:


> For audio quality, has anyone noticed a difference depending on what you set your TWS earbud volume vs source volume at?
> 
> Eg: high earbud vol, low source vol
> High source vol, low earbud vol
> Mid vol on each


Ideally they should sync.
The galaxy buds sync their volume with my V30 for example, adjusting on the phone will actually adjust on the buds.


----------



## Nikostr8

does anyone here has the TRN BT20s adapter ? is it worth the price ?

this one


----------



## HiFlight

Nikostr8 said:


> does anyone here has the TRN BT20s adapter ? is it worth the price ?
> Excellent sound and well worth the price.
> this one


----------



## willyk

clerkpalmer said:


> Yes I think they do.


Well, that's a bummer!


----------



## willyk

duo8 said:


> If you're concerned about hiss I didn't notice any while using the galaxy buds.


Thanks!


----------



## jagar46

My LP2’s got an update. Didn’t have an issue with hiss before although when the volume was lowered there was a slight hiss, this slight hiss seems even slighter now with the update. Maybe it’s just me or I’ve managed a better seal today but they do seem louder. I’m really happy with these


----------



## clerkpalmer

Nikostr8 said:


> does anyone here has the TRN BT20s adapter ? is it worth the price ?
> 
> this one


Lots of us. Well worth the price.


----------



## tma6

Just got the L2Ps in hand! I’ll be testing them this week and will write a full review in a few days.


----------



## Sam L

HiFlight said:


> My initial impressions from yesterday:
> 
> "Some of my comments regarding the 75t:
> 
> ...



good to hear that you dialed in the sound to your liking. Ironically the app saved the 65t's for me, else I would of returned them immediately.


----------



## d3myz

jagar46 said:


> My LP2’s got an update. Didn’t have an issue with hiss before although when the volume was lowered there was a slight hiss, this slight hiss seems even slighter now with the update. Maybe it’s just me or I’ve managed a better seal today but they do seem louder. I’m really happy with these


I just had Anker push me the 1.15 firmware update to my replacement model, it was stuck on 1.09. Not sure what it's going to do, but i'm very happy with them. The dilemma is I liked the my previous version that had more bass, but I like the additional clarity of the replacements. They def. sound different to me.


----------



## d3myz

Just pulled the trigger on the Tranya Rimor. a they showed up on Amazon this morning. Miss a lot, I've been gone for a week or so. Has anyone done a hands on review of them yet?


----------



## hifi80sman

d3myz said:


> Just pulled the trigger on the Tranya Rimor. a they showed up on Amazon this morning. Miss a lot, I've been gone for a week or so. Has anyone done a hands on review of them yet?


Nope, you'll be the first!  The one thing that I've been wondering the most, is does it REALLY have ANC (or ENC) to suppress ambient noise in general (not talking about the microphone)?

Other than that, they spec out well with a 10mm Titanium Driver, USB-C, full range touch controls, and maybe some kind of non-microphone noise cancellation.  Realtek SoC, so likely just AAC, but as an iPhone user mainly (I still roll with Android for aptX, aptX HD, and LDAC), it's good enough.  Plus, Apple AAC is really good.


----------



## hifi80sman

d3myz said:


> I just had Anker push me the 1.15 firmware update to my replacement model, it was stuck on 1.09. Not sure what it's going to do, but i'm very happy with them. The dilemma is I liked the my previous version that had more bass, but I like the additional clarity of the replacements. They def. sound different to me.


Just updated mine to 1.15.  No complaints.  Much better than the 1st version and hiss is negligible.  It's not dead silent, certainly mild, kind of like the mild white noise from good ANC implementation (obviously, the L2P don't have ANC).


----------



## cacio (Nov 18, 2019)

I bought these https://mobilephonegift.com/product/mpg-bqc35-anc-tws-earbuds-active-noise-cancelling/ on 11.11 (no special deal, just the frustration that there was no exiting TWS on Ali ^^)
Didn't got an shipping email yet...

New chipset which is not Qualcomm or realtek and claims aptX support and ANC. Really exotic for me


----------



## SilverEars (Nov 18, 2019)

HiFlight said:


> My initial impressions from yesterday:
> 
> "Some of my comments regarding the 75t:
> 
> ...


I luv the look of those, and looks like it smaller and fit better than the 65t.  When I saw a video of voice quality comparison, 65t seemed lightly better.  Too bad it doesn't let you use any earpiece, there is still the master and slave system.  AirPods Pros work separetely, and even on Android.  

If I can get the formfactor of 75t with ANC of Airpods Pro, I'm set.  I don't like the look of Airpods with the stem.


----------



## d3myz

hifi80sman said:


> Nope, you'll be the first!  The one thing that I've been wondering the most, is does it REALLY have ANC (or ENC) to suppress ambient noise in general (not talking about the microphone)?
> 
> Other than that, they spec out well with a 10mm Titanium Driver, USB-C, full range touch controls, and maybe some kind of non-microphone noise cancellation.  Realtek SoC, so likely just AAC, but as an iPhone user mainly (I still roll with Android for aptX, aptX HD, and LDAC), it's good enough.  Plus, Apple AAC is really good.


Nice, I also reached out to Ida@tranya.com a couple weeks ago when they were on pre-order, told her I wanted to test them. She asked me to wait until they showed up on Amazon, so i'm hoping Tranya will comp. me like the did with the B530's. I'd suggest others to do the same and reach out for a demo.


----------



## d3myz

hifi80sman said:


> Just updated mine to 1.15.  No complaints.  Much better than the 1st version and hiss is negligible.  It's not dead silent, certainly mild, kind of like the mild white noise from good ANC implementation (obviously, the L2P don't have ANC).


Did you compare them to the 1st version, sound quality wise? As i've mentioned, the new model is Quite different. Cleaner with less overpowering bass.


----------



## Quicky32

Are most using these with a phone?  I prefer my Ipod Nano and don't bring my phone into the gym with me.


----------



## hifi80sman

d3myz said:


> Did you compare them to the 1st version, sound quality wise? As i've mentioned, the new model is Quite different. Cleaner with less overpowering bass.


Honestly, I don't really notice a difference.  MAYBE it sounds a bit more precise, but I can't confirm with any confidence.  I'm just very happy with them.


----------



## hifi80sman

Quicky32 said:


> Are most using these with a phone?  I prefer my Ipod Nano and don't bring my phone into the gym with me.


I think 99% of people are.  If you have the iPod Nano with Bluetooth, all the 5.0 TWS will be backwards compatible with whatever Bluetooth version it is (probably 3.0 or 4.0).


----------



## tma6

First impressions of the L2Ps are very positive. After trying a bunch of EQs, I'm now loving the "Acoustic" signature. Adds a fantastic smoothness and balance to the overall presentation.


----------



## jagar46

tma6 said:


> First impressions of the L2Ps are very positive. After trying a bunch of EQs, I'm now loving the "Acoustic" signature. Adds a fantastic smoothness and balance to the overall presentation.



After much toing and froing I’ve also settled on the acoustic EQ setting, it seems to bring everything to the front in equal proportion.


----------



## Pete7874

Quicky32 said:


> Are most using these with a phone?  I prefer my Ipod Nano and don't bring my phone into the gym with me.


Majority of my L2/L2P use will be with a Shanling M3s DAP, but I am also testing them with my work laptop to see how they do as a bluetooth headset and may potentially try to use them to take calls on the phone when I'm on the road, depending on how good/bad the mic quality is.  I saw one review saying mic quality is terrible.  I'll have to ask the people I talk to.


----------



## geoxile

To the mw07 plus owners. Does your mw07+ make a loud powering off noise at around 20% battery life? Well between 10-20%. Scared the crap out of me. I got the low battery warning followed shortly by the shut down noise. It didnt even shut off. Works fine and based on the previous 10% increments had about 2 hours left


----------



## Pete7874

Pete7874 said:


> Is there a way to tell how much charge is left in Liberty 2?  Is there a low battery indicator on the earphones themselves?


So apparently the earphones announce battery level right after you power them on.


----------



## wksoh

AudioNoob said:


> Kissral r18 is the same as ssk if you are going to buy from amazon



Hi there,... is Kissral R18 the same as SSK?  THe Kissral r18 doesn't advertise as having 10mm driver though.... in fact SSK is the only one that advertizes their 10mm driver that I'm able to find so far.
I recently bought the Letscom ST-BE30 UFO TWS - they sounded too forward and shouty with sibilance. Didn't like it.
I ordered SSK from Aliexpress and next month would be able to compare.
Together with Mpow M5 and also Tronsmart Spunky Beat.
Recommendations from Scarbir . com

thanks


----------



## HiFlight

SilverEars said:


> I luv the look of those, and looks like it smaller and fit better than the 65t.  When I saw a video of voice quality comparison, 65t seemed lightly better.  Too bad it doesn't let you use any earpiece, there is still the master and slave system.  AirPods Pros work separetely, and even on Android.
> 
> If I can get the formfactor of 75t with ANC of Airpods Pro, I'm set.  I don't like the look of Airpods with the stem.


They are considerably smaller than the 65t when compared side by side.  Once I created my preferred EQ setting, the SQ is much better than the best setting in my 65t.  Don't be put off by the huge out of the box bass.  It is easily addressed using the Sound+ app.  They sound best without using a deep vacuum seal.  I can hardly feel mine when in place and have been wearing them for hours at a time without any discomfort at all.  I have had no adverse comments from anyone regarding call quality.


----------



## hifi80sman

geoxile said:


> To the mw07 plus owners. Does your mw07+ make a loud powering off noise at around 20% battery life? Well between 10-20%. Scared the crap out of me. I got the low battery warning followed shortly by the shut down noise. It didnt even shut off. Works fine and based on the previous 10% increments had about 2 hours left


Yes, that's the dreaded low battery warning the original MW07 also has.  It really sucks, as there is no option to turn it off.  While there may be some targeted uses here and there, it's been a common complaint.  I have never been a fan of low battery warnings, but at least give someone the option to turn it off if it's going to be super intrusive.


----------



## AudioNoob

wksoh said:


> Hi there,... is Kissral R18 the same as SSK?  THe Kissral r18 doesn't advertise as having 10mm driver though.... in fact SSK is the only one that advertizes their 10mm driver that I'm able to find so far.
> I recently bought the Letscom ST-BE30 UFO TWS - they sounded too forward and shouty with sibilance. Didn't like it.
> I ordered SSK from Aliexpress and next month would be able to compare.
> Together with Mpow M5 and also Tronsmart Spunky Beat.
> ...


I asked the same earlier and was told no, that the SSK sounded the best. They might be the same driver but definitely are tuned differently. Let us know about those three once you get them.

I just go tthe alpha & delta elite, which is in the familiar wavefin form factor. I really like the build quality and the size of the case, and the fact that it is usb-c. Pairing is pretty effortless, it can swap between left and right mono without a hitch and pretty instantaneously. On the ipad, it paired as 'headset' after selecting the right, and now automatically works with L as mono too. I think on Android I have to pair both to have the option of pulling just the L out of the case.

I must say I find the touch control a bit annoying, there isn't anyway to get these in fully without playing, pausing, skipping songs and changing volume in the process. I think the touch-interface earbuds designers should really make a much more distinct small touch zone.

First impressions are that there is quite a bit of bass that bleeds into the midrange, recessing most vocals. They are not undetailed and a lot of the higher extension is there and doesn't sound very splash, but the inarticulate bass that doesn't extend very deep takes quite a bit of definition out of the mids. I'm going to let them play on their own a bit (though I'm not a burn-in type) to rattle out the factory mold releases and whatnot and let them warm up, I'm in NH and I just got them from the truck. Will post more.

They were sent to me courtesy of A&D, expressed from singapore via DHL. So a shoutout to them. Perhaps they can change the tuning with a firmware update since these are QCC3020 with a built in DSP.


----------



## Quicky32

hifi80sman said:


> I think 99% of people are.  If you have the iPod Nano with Bluetooth, all the 5.0 TWS will be backwards compatible with whatever Bluetooth version it is (probably 3.0 or 4.0).





hifi80sman said:


> I think 99% of people are.  If you have the iPod Nano with Bluetooth, all the 5.0 TWS will be backwards compatible with whatever Bluetooth version it is (probably 3.0 or 4.0).



So in theory I should get more bluetooth range with my Iphone 11 Pro Max?  What about sound quality?


----------



## cacio

Those whohe have the L2P and a good DAP with IEMs, how do they compare? 

I am basically thinking about getting a shanling up2 with some decent IEMs. But if the L2P are on the same level, then I'll happily would get into the higher price TWS market just because it's so convenient. But the SQ has to match .


----------



## hifi80sman

Quicky32 said:


> So in theory I should get more bluetooth range with my Iphone 11 Pro Max?  What about sound quality?


In theory, yes.  In practice, the biggest difference in range is Class 1 vs. Class 2.  Most TWS' are Class 2.

Not sure what codec the iPod has, but guessing AAC, so there wouldn't be any difference in SQ (should maintain a steady bitrate with both Apple devices).


----------



## d3myz (Nov 18, 2019)

Well, look what finally showed up in the mail today. I’m probably the only one dumb enough to have not backed out of the indiegogo on these, but I was assured I could return them if i didn’t like them.
I haven’t had a chance to listen to them yet, but as you can see in the photos there’s a major scratch on the back of the case. Once the case is open you can’t really close it unless you push the earbuds back in position just right. They only seems to work 1/5 times.
In comparison to the liberty 2 pro and it’s presentation, these advanced M5’s fall WAY short. I’ve unboxed about 70 TWS’ now and these are extremely average. For $130 you’ve got to be kidding me. The packaging quality is almost identical to the Tranya B530 but with nice graphics on the box. These better sound incredible. More to come.


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## Pete7874 (Nov 18, 2019)

cacio said:


> Those whohe have the L2P and a good DAP with IEMs, how do they compare?
> 
> I am basically thinking about getting a shanling up2 with some decent IEMs. But if the L2P are on the same level, then I'll happily would get into the higher price TWS market just because it's so convenient. But the SQ has to match .


Using my Shanling M3s with Soundcore L2, I'd say they're about 90% as good as my $40 wired TinAudio T2 or $80 iBasso IT01 from a sound quality perspective, plus none of the wired IEMs exhibit any hiss.

My L2P should be arriving today, so I can let you know how they stack up against L2.


----------



## hifi80sman

d3myz said:


> Well, look what finally showed up in the mail today. I’m probably the only one dumb enough to have not backed out of the indiegogo on these, but I was assured I could return them if i didn’t like them.          I haven’t had a chance to listen to them yet, but as you can see in the photos there’s a major scratch on the back of the case. Once the case is open you can’t really close it unless you push the earbuds back in position just right. They only seems to work 1/5 times. In comparison to the liberty 2 pro and it’s presentation, these advanced M5’s fall WAY short. I’ve unboxed about 70 TWS’ now and these are extremely average. For $130 you’ve got to be kidding me. The packaging quality is almost identical to the Tranya B530 but with nice graphics on the box. These better sound incredible. More to come.


It came with "character marks" already?!  Score!  Nice.  Hopefully, they aren't someone else's that boxed them up.


----------



## cwill

wksoh said:


> Hi there,... is Kissral R18 the same as SSK?  THe Kissral r18 doesn't advertise as having 10mm driver though.... in fact SSK is the only one that advertizes their 10mm driver that I'm able to find so far.
> I recently bought the Letscom ST-BE30 UFO TWS - they sounded too forward and shouty with sibilance. Didn't like it.
> I ordered SSK from Aliexpress and next month would be able to compare.
> Together with Mpow M5 and also Tronsmart Spunky Beat.
> ...


Not the same at all. I own both. SSK has a lot more bass. R18's are lacking in that regard but still sound great.


----------



## webvan (Nov 19, 2019)

Tech Trends has published a listening comparison between the 75ts and the XM3s : 



The 75ts don't sound too bad but like the 65ts don't offer anything particularly appealing, a bit like the APPs.


----------



## hifi80sman

webvan said:


> Tech Trends has published a listening comparison between the 75ts and the XM3s :
> The 75ts don't sound too bad but like the 65ts don't offer anything particularly appealing, a bit like the APPs.



They liked them so much they're having a giveaway, eh?  The 65t were a bit chunky, but still fit well and worked great for calls.  While I appreciate the smaller form factor, size and fit were not my biggest complaints to begin with, so it would have been an instant buy for me if they upgraded the drivers/sound.  Just my opinion, but when you're charging $150+, expectations get bigger.


----------



## d3myz (Nov 18, 2019)

I may not be giving the Advanced M5 the most fair review, but I can already tell i'm not keeping them. I've tried the JVC Spiral Dots, L2Pro, M5 med tips all with similar results, but as usual for me the Spiral Dots sounded the best. They don't sound bad really, There's a wide soundstage boomy sub-bass, the vocals are pushed a bit forward Yet the snare is pushed back. Figure that one out? I can't. That cave sound that the SoundPeats Truengine's have is also evident in the M5, but to a much lesser degree.
The highs are rolled off, but there is def. some clarity at the top. The EQing of the sub- and mid bass, make the low end sound boomy, not much sub bass, but there is some pretty good punch, but it feels like it hangs around a bit too long., Yet overall they do sound quite nice for certain tracks like Trance and Electronic music, sounds quite good.

I did a side/side them with the L2pro and the L2pro sounds a lot better to me. The Knowles BA is def. a thinner type high end, but it's sparkles so beautifully to my ears. I used the Flat EQ setting on the L2pro. Also, do you like grease? because the M5 housing feels super slippery just from touching it with the natural oils on my hand. The fit is much like the Meaudio's. The M5 does an excellent job of passive sound isolation and the fit is really spectacular, but these just feel and look cheap. Touch controls pretty much suck. 2 super quick touches to start and stop yet somehow when i'm holding them in my hand putting on new tips the will automatically start playing. Also, three super fast taps to go FWD and BACK on each perspective bud, yet sometimes double tapping will skip tracks. Going back to what I said about not being fair. I didn't eq them nor did I test AptX, because I can't possibly bring myself to pay even the earlybird price of $130 for them. All in All disregarding the price, i'd give them a 4.4/5. With all that being said, if the price were $50 they'd def. be a keeper. Cheers

Edit: OMG I just saw this on Advanced's Website. https://www.adv-sound.com/products/m5-tws they are asking $250 for them.  that's what I call a robbery, folks.


----------



## hifi80sman

d3myz said:


> I may not be giving the Advanced M5 the most fair review, but I can already tell i'm not keeping them. I've tried the JVC Spiral Dots, L2Pro, M5 med tips all with similar results, but as usual for me the Spiral Dots sounded the best. They don't sound bad really, There's a wide soundstage boomy sub-bass, the vocals are pushed a bit forward Yet the snare is pushed back. Figure that one out? I can't. That cave sound that the SoundPeats Truengine's have is also evident in the M5, but to a much lesser degree.
> The highs are rolled off, but there is def. some clarity at the top. The EQing of the sub- and mid bass, make the low end sound boomy, not much sub bass, but there is some pretty good punch, but it feels like it hangs around a bit too long., Yet overall they do sound quite nice for certain tracks like Trance and Electronic music, sounds quite good.
> 
> I did a side/side them with the L2pro and the L2pro sounds a lot better to me. The Knowles BA is def. a thinner type high end, but it's sparkles so beautifully to my ears. I used the Flat EQ setting on the L2pro. Also, do you like grease? because the M5 housing feels super slippery just from touching it with the natural oils on my hand. The fit is much like the Meaudio's. The M5 does an excellent job of passive sound isolation and the fit is really spectacular, but these just feel and look cheap. Touch controls pretty much suck. 2 super quick touches to start and stop yet somehow when i'm holding them in my hand putting on new tips the will automatically start playing. Also, three super fast taps to go FWD and BACK on each perspective bud, yet sometimes double tapping will skip tracks. Going back to what I said about not being fair. I didn't eq them nor did I test AptX, because I can't possibly bring myself to pay even the earlybird price of $130 for them. All in All disregarding the price, i'd give them a 4.4/5. With all that being said, if the price were $50 they'd def. be a keeper. Cheers
> ...


Looks like the ultimate victim of white label/private label manufacturing, which is pretty much what Indiegogo seems to be about.  Poor QC, poor R&D, etc. and puts your brand image at risk.  I'm sure this is why all of Sennheiser's and Sony's non-consumer grade stuff is made at their own factories in Germany and Japan (respectively).  HD 820 made in China?  Uh, pass.


----------



## d3myz (Nov 18, 2019)

hifi80sman said:


> Looks like the ultimate victim of white label/private label manufacturing, which is pretty much what Indiegogo seems to be about.  Poor QC, poor R&D, etc. and puts your brand image at risk.  I'm sure this is why all of Sennheiser's and Sony's non-consumer grade stuff is made at their own factories in Germany and Japan (respectively).  HD 820 made in China?  Uh, pass.


I couldn’t agree more. I understand they are trying to compete against China and make a profit, but Advanced seems to have zero understanding of the market and what customers really want, a lot of their products seem like some exec tuned it because he/she thinks it sounds good


----------



## d3myz (Nov 18, 2019)

I know this is the wrong thread. Anyone know if these are any good? I need some over the ears for working at home. Maybe One of you sound lords could give me some feedback or point me to a thread?


----------



## hifi80sman

d3myz said:


> I know this is the wrong thread. Anyone know if these are any good? I need some over the ears for working at home. Maybe One of you sound lords could give me some feedback or point me to a thread?


I haven't tried those, but I did have these, which are basically the prior version.  I imagine not much has changed, except for better fit/comfort.  
https://www.amazon.com/Sony-XB950N1-Wireless-Canceling-Headphones/dp/B01MUGEYT7

At the time, I thought those were great for what they are (bass cannons).  But now, given I'm a little more "sophisticated", I don't really crave that type of fun sound anymore, given I have much better and going back is like going back to cassette tapes.

These may be a little more, but they are getting cheaper now that the new version is out.  You can adjust the bass on these as well via the app (but the actual EQ only works with Tidal or non-DRM music) and they sound great.  Some of the deepest sub-bass with good mids/highs.
https://www.amazon.com/Sennheiser-PXC-550-Wireless-Cancelling/dp/B01E3XLNA0/


----------



## d3myz

hifi80sman said:


> I haven't tried those, but I did have these, which are basically the prior version.  I imagine not much has changed, except for better fit/comfort.
> https://www.amazon.com/Sony-XB950N1-Wireless-Canceling-Headphones/dp/B01MUGEYT7
> 
> At the time, I thought those were great for what they are (bass cannons).  But now, given I'm a little more "sophisticated", I don't really crave that type of fun sound anymore, given I have much better and going back is like going back to cassette tapes.
> ...


Thank you @hifi80sman! I knew I could count on your obsession.


----------



## Mouseman

d3myz said:


> I couldn’t agree more. I understand they are trying to compete against China and make a profit, but Advanced seems to have zero understanding of the market and what customers really want, a lot of their products seem like some exec tuned it because he/she thinks it sounds good


I agree100%. I've had some wired and BT gear from them, and I don't get their "house sound ". I had to ship back a pair of the BT (wired together) IEMs because they sounded horrible and had the worst BT I've ever experienced, and they weren't cheap. The lightning dongle is the only thing I've liked, and they made a mess with their firmware updates and app. 

I saw the M5s and what they were going to ask for them, as well as the comments about them vs the other set, and just scratched my head. Good luck to them.


----------



## gibletzor

d3myz said:


> Nice, I also reached out to Ida@tranya.com a couple weeks ago when they were on pre-order, told her I wanted to test them. She asked me to wait until they showed up on Amazon, so i'm hoping Tranya will comp. me like the did with the B530's. I'd suggest others to do the same and reach out for a demo.


I did the same a couple weeks back and got the same answer.  lol


----------



## go0gle

I’ve been using the AirPod pros for a week now, alongside lp2, and I have to say apple have done a fantastic job on these when paired with iOS. 

overall functionality is really great and even though the SQ is not on par with the lp2 I will keep them for sure, and I think I might even use them more often than the lp2


----------



## Pete7874 (Nov 18, 2019)

Doing some quick listening comparison between L2P and L2, using my Shanling M3s as source, they sound very similar except for treble.  Treble on L2P is more pronounced to the point where it sounds overdone and shrill and ear piercing on some recordings such as Dido - Take You Home or Indila - Derniere Danse, and even using Treble Reducer EQ setting does not help with this.  Granted, it is possible these are just overproduced recordings  where L2P uncovers their flaws, but I personally prefer how these tracks sound on L2 instead.

  Need to spend more time with both L2 and L2P before I make up my mind.

If anyone wants to suggest any particular test tracks with 'challenging' treble that some earphones struggle with, I am all ears (heh).


----------



## dwil

Bartig said:


> Got the Aiwa Prodigy Air, Bomaker Sifi and the Haylou GT2. It doesn’t really make a difference whether you’re spending 20 dollars anymore, or 60. They all compete with each other.



Are you gonna have a review out for the bomakers?


----------



## wksoh (Nov 19, 2019)

Dani157 said:


> How bad are Umidigi Upods? Like Bluedio T-Elf bad?



My first TWS:    Umidigi Upods
Bad seal
I hear some Distortion when music plays.
There is some tonality: Drums sounded like drums.
No bass. Not even average base.

2nd TWS:  Letscom ST-BE30
Solid seal
Shouty mids
Sibilant highs
Tonally incorrect: Snare drums and RIm shots sounded tinny like toys.

User Profile:
Not Audiophile - Average musician.
Ears sensitive to sibilance due to choice of music: Heavy Instrumental


----------



## hifi80sman

Pete7874 said:


> Doing some quick listening comparison between L2P and L2, using my Shanling M3s as source, they sound very similar except for treble.  Treble on L2P is more pronounced to the point where it sounds overdone and shrill and ear piercing on some recordings such as Dido - Take You Home or Indila - Derniere Danse, and even using Treble Reducer EQ setting does not help with this.  Granted, it is possible these are just overproduced recordings  where L2P uncovers their flaws, but I personally prefer how these tracks sound on L2 instead.
> 
> Need to spend more time with both L2 and L2P before I make up my mind.
> 
> If anyone wants to suggest any particular test tracks with 'challenging' treble that some earphones struggle with, I am all ears (heh).


I'm not sure if you're using Spotify, Amazon HD, Tidal, FLAC, etc., or even what kind of music you prefer, but I quite enjoy Fleetwood Mac's 50th Anniversary Edition on the L2P.  I agree that many recent recordings are certainly overproduced, so they do sound sharp here and there on the L2P, but most of the stuff I listen to are remastered 80s into 90s/early 00s (all genres), before Millennials took over in the studio.


----------



## hifi80sman

d3myz said:


> Thank you @hifi80sman! I knew I could count on your obsession.


I actually ended up going to Best Buy this evening and tested out the WH-XB900N headphones on display.  If I could gump it down, they are basically a less refined, bassier version of the WH-1000XM3.  Mediocre highs, over-the-top bass.  Teenagers will love 'em.


----------



## FYLegend (Nov 19, 2019)

matokt said:


> Recommendations for ear-tips that fit the Sabbat E12 ultra?
> The ones that came with does not fit my ear at all  I guess I have too small ears.


I'm wondering about this as well. For me the medium red eartips fit the best but my right ear is slightly loose, the medium green tips are slightly more lose on top of that, but sound more detailed..



SilverEars said:


> Anybody update the firmware on Jabra 65t and noticed better SQ as result?  It seems like it to me, but not entirely sure.
> 
> It's been a long time since I had the 65t and have never updated the firmware, and I noticed there was a September 2019 firmware update on the app.


hmm, I didn't know there was a firmware update until your post. Unfortunately it doesn't fix the channel imbalance or hissing issues I have, but it seems like the tuning is brighter with a more sparkly treble.



hifi80sman said:


> I actually ended up going to Best Buy this evening and tested out the WH-XB900N headphones on display.  If I could gump it down, they are basically a less refined, bassier version of the WH-1000XM3.  Mediocre highs, over-the-top bass.  Teenagers will love 'em.


Yikes... I've been looking for a cheaper alternative to the 1000XM3 that has a Type C charging port. Until recently I've only seen Bluedio do that but I remained wary of that company. Fiio EH3 looks promising. From a lower price point there's the EKSA E5 (has ANC but no AptX) and Meizu HD60 (no ANC)


----------



## cleg

My video review of the Xiaomi Air2 (aka AirDots 2). Spoiler: they could be better in IEM form-factor


----------



## cacio

Pete7874 said:


> If anyone wants to suggest any particular test tracks with 'challenging' treble that some earphones struggle with, I am all ears (heh).


I have a track for the upper bass test. Easy to overdo with overpowering bass which bloats in to the mids

Maya Jane Cole's - Weak


----------



## Bartig

dwil said:


> Are you gonna have a review out for the bomakers?


I plan to, but it isn’t the highest on my priority list with so many new TWS arrivals.


----------



## Soul_Viper

Hello everybody!!

I've read about this thread, so I've come to ask the experts some recommendations about best TWS in the market. I priorize the comfort followed by the sound quality.

For the last few days I have made an intensive research about this matter, and have read soooo many reviews and opinions about the different models, but I'm still a bit confused about that, as I couldn't find enough direct comparatives between the models.

For the moment, the best models are supposed to be the following but none of them seem to be flawless

Jabra Elite 75t
Creative Outlier Gold
Master & Dynamic MW07 True Wireless
Bang & Olufsen Beoplay E8 2.0
Sennheiser Momentum True Wireless
Sony WF-1000XM3
Audio-Technica ATH-CKS5TW

What to you think about this list? I obviate the apple model as I'm an Android user. 

Thanks in advance


----------



## dweaver

hifi80sman said:


> I actually ended up going to Best Buy this evening and tested out the WH-XB900N headphones on display.  If I could gump it down, they are basically a less refined, bassier version of the WH-1000XM3.  Mediocre highs, over-the-top bass.  Teenagers will love 'em.


I own the WH-1000XM3 and have done a couple listening tests of the WH-XB900N and agree 100%. Very much a lesser version in every way. At their regular retail I would say just save up the extra money and get the WH-1000XM3. But at this half price point sale they are a good option for bass lovers who dont own a better headphone if budget is a concern.


----------



## d3myz

hifi80sman said:


> I actually ended up going to Best Buy this evening and tested out the WH-XB900N headphones on display.  If I could gump it down, they are basically a less refined, bassier version of the WH-1000XM3.  Mediocre highs, over-the-top bass.  Teenagers will love 'em.


What a guy! Thanks for checking them out for me.


----------



## d3myz

gibletzor said:


> I did the same a couple weeks back and got the same answer.  lol


I got an e-mail from here today, with instructions on demoing the Rimor. luckily I ordered them yesterday, looks like there's 1 left on amazon.


----------



## gibletzor

d3myz said:


> I got an e-mail from here today, with instructions on demoing the Rimor. luckily I ordered them yesterday, looks like there's 1 left on amazon.


Snatched the last one!


----------



## Pete7874

hifi80sman said:


> I'm not sure if you're using Spotify, Amazon HD, Tidal, FLAC, etc., or even what kind of music you prefer, but I quite enjoy Fleetwood Mac's 50th Anniversary Edition on the L2P.  I agree that many recent recordings are certainly overproduced, so they do sound sharp here and there on the L2P, but most of the stuff I listen to are remastered 80s into 90s/early 00s (all genres), before Millennials took over in the studio.


Most of my content is either FLAC or high bitrate AAC converted from FLAC.  And yeah, that Fleetwood Mac album sounds fine on L2P.  

Doing some more listening today, I am probably getting more used to them as I find them less offending today than I did yesterday.


----------



## pokenguyen

Soul_Viper said:


> Hello everybody!!
> 
> I've read about this thread, so I've come to ask the experts some recommendations about best TWS in the market. I priorize the comfort followed by the sound quality.
> 
> ...


I can only compare 3 models, MW07, SMTW and Sony. About the comfort, SMTW is the best, you don't feel the headphones at all. Next is MW07, it fits well and comfortably, very secure, but sometimes you can feel the "wings" in your ears. There is no pain or discomfort in long time (I use them at work), just that you can feel it sometimes. For Sony, it is comfortable when sitting still, but when you move you can feel the bulky headphone, and it is difficult to have a secure fit, it feels loose in your ear.

About the SQ, I rate MW07 > Sony > SMTW. The sound signature of SMTW is different from both MW07 and Sony, so you may like it better. 

I also only care about comfort and SQ, that's why I choose MW07. Sony and SMTW has more features though (ANC, EQ, Firmware update,...)


----------



## hifi80sman (Nov 19, 2019)

FYLegend said:


> Yikes... I've been looking for a cheaper alternative to the 1000XM3 that has a Type C charging port. Until recently I've only seen Bluedio do that but I remained wary of that company. Fiio EH3 looks promising. From a lower price point there's the EKSA E5 (has ANC but no AptX) and Meizu HD60 (no ANC)


Off topic, but I've also been looking at the FiiO EH3.  I ended up purchasing both the Bowers & Wilkins PX5 and PX7.  Using the on-ear PX5 for the gym here and there.  Just got the PX7 yesterday, but so far, so good.  I had the Sennheiser M3, but they were a step down in build quality vs. the M2.  Sounded better and more comfortable than the M2, but just did not have the same quality build (thinner leather, cheaper plastic).

I rotate from TWS, on-ear, and over-ear, because frankly, I have a major addiction problem, but also, it reduces fatigue from a single form factor.


----------



## hifi80sman

Bartig said:


> I plan to, but it isn’t the highest on my priority list with so many new TWS arrivals.


Crap.  Apparently I won't wait with bated breath for the MEIDONG review (which actually look kind cool, save the name).


----------



## Soul_Viper

Bartig said:


> I plan to, but it isn’t the highest on my priority list with so many new TWS arrivals.



Which ones? Do u think it will be worth waiting for them?


----------



## Soul_Viper

pokenguyen said:


> I can only compare 3 models, MW07, SMTW and Sony. About the comfort, SMTW is the best, you don't feel the headphones at all. Next is MW07, it fits well and comfortably, very secure, but sometimes you can feel the "wings" in your ears. There is no pain or discomfort in long time (I use them at work), just that you can feel it sometimes. For Sony, it is comfortable when sitting still, but when you move you can feel the bulky headphone, and it is difficult to have a secure fit, it feels loose in your ear.
> 
> About the SQ, I rate MW07 > Sony > SMTW. The sound signature of SMTW is different from both MW07 and Sony, so you may like it better.
> 
> I also only care about comfort and SQ, that's why I choose MW07. Sony and SMTW has more features though (ANC, EQ, Firmware update,...)




And what do u think about the new MW models? The "Go" version and the Plus? In Europe they don't sell the go model anywhere except their official website.


----------



## pokenguyen

Soul_Viper said:


> And what do u think about the new MW models? The "Go" version and the Plus? In Europe they don't sell the go model anywhere except their official website.


The MW07 Go = MW07 + triple battery life
MW07Plus = MW07 + triple battery life + ANC (not as good as Sony) + sensor to pause/unpause when you taking the phones out of your ears.

I'm using MW07 Go because ANC is not really important to me, save me 100e. I bought from another buyer in Germany so it is even cheaper.


----------



## rhsauer

pokenguyen said:


> The MW07 Go = MW07 + triple battery life
> MW07Plus = MW07 + triple battery life + ANC (not as good as Sony) + sensor to pause/unpause when you taking the phones out of your ears.
> 
> I'm using MW07 Go because ANC is not really important to me, save me 100e. I bought from another buyer in Germany so it is even cheaper.



I think MW07Plus = MW07 + triple battery life + ANC (not as good as Sony) + sensor to pause/unpause when you taking the phones out of your ears + two microphones in each earpiece with beamforming tech for better noise cancellation during calls.  That last part might be most important, depending on use case   Unfortunately, however, the MW07 Plus is still not bringing the AAC love.


----------



## pokenguyen

rhsauer said:


> I think MW07Plus = MW07 + triple battery life + ANC (not as good as Sony) + sensor to pause/unpause when you taking the phones out of your ears + two microphones in each earpiece with beamforming tech for better noise cancellation during calls.  That last part might be most important, depending on use case   Unfortunately, however, the MW07 Plus is still not bringing the AAC love.


Thanks for clarification. 

I don't hear any difference between my iPad/Macbook and my Android phone, so it's not a problem to me. They all sound beautifully.


----------



## Timastyle

pokenguyen said:


> Thanks for clarification.
> 
> I don't hear any difference between my iPad/Macbook and my Android phone, so it's not a problem to me. They all sound beautifully.



How's the ambient noise mode on the Plus?  I don't believe the original had it, right?


----------



## Soul_Viper

Thanks for your answers, but somewhere I have read that apart from that, also there are some size difference between them, is it right?


----------



## briank996 (Nov 19, 2019)

If anyone was interested in a TWS Etymotic, I’ve found that they work really well with the TRN BT20(S) adapters. 

Needed to shave off about 1/32nd of the rubber on the TRN adapter for the MMCX to connect properly, then put a tiny bit of heat shrink over the adapter and the earphone to cover the small gap.  Very easy and heat shrink not necessary, just made it look pretty.

The big differences between the TRN BT20 and BT20S is that the ’S’ model has a matte finish, runs with higher gain, has better battery life and supports APT-X.   Both models support AAC, so if you’re primarily using a Mac / IOS, you may not find much benefit with the S model. 

Here’s the results of testing I’ve done with the Etymotic models I have access to. 

*Etymotic ER4 XR*
TRN BT20 - No Hiss
TRN BT20S - No Hiss

*Etymotic ER3 XR*
TRN BT20 - Slight Hiss
TRN BT20S - Noticeable Hiss

*Etymotic ER2 XR*
TRN BT20  - No Hiss
TRN BT20S - No Hiss

Microphone quality sucks on both.

BT connectivity and sound quality are stellar.

I have to say that with my iPhone I notice zero difference between these and wired from a sound quality perspective.  

Definitely my new favorite gadget.  










Can be securely and comfortably worn in two different ways.


----------



## pokenguyen

Timastyle said:


> How's the ambient noise mode on the Plus?  I don't believe the original had it, right?


I'm using Go version, which doesn't have that mode.


----------



## d3myz

Anyone used the MEE AUDIO PINNACLE P2 with the BT20/s? Drop has it for $25. I remember looking at these before I bought my iBasso It01's and they were similarly priced.


----------



## Mouseman

d3myz said:


> Anyone used the MEE AUDIO PINNACLE P2 with the BT20/s? Drop has it for $25. I remember looking at these before I bought my iBasso It01's and they were similarly priced.


I don't have the BT20s, but I do have the P2s -- I've never been that impressed with them and they quickly fell out of rotation. They are nowhere near the capability of the P1s/PXs, which I adore and still listen to. I think that contributed to my take on them -- I kept comparing them to the P1s, which they're not (but they also cost a fraction of the price, especially with that deal).

But for $25, it might just be worth a try. They aren't overly sensitive, so they shouldn't hiss much, and they don't take much power to drive well (unlike the P1s, where more is better). I'm a little surprised they're blowing out the stock -- I wonder if MEE has something else in the works or if they're just trying to shrink the product line. If you do buy them, do yourself a favor and throw the stock cable in the trash straight away.


----------



## 13gsc13

What's the differences between the BT20 and the BT20S


----------



## d3myz

Mouseman said:


> I don't have the BT20s, but I do have the P2s -- I've never been that impressed with them and they quickly fell out of rotation. They are nowhere near the capability of the P1s/PXs, which I adore and still listen to. I think that contributed to my take on them -- I kept comparing them to the P1s, which they're not (but they also cost a fraction of the price, especially with that deal).
> 
> But for $25, it might just be worth a try. They aren't overly sensitive, so they shouldn't hiss much, and they don't take much power to drive well (unlike the P1s, where more is better). I'm a little surprised they're blowing out the stock -- I wonder if MEE has something else in the works or if they're just trying to shrink the product line. If you do buy them, do yourself a favor and throw the stock cable in the trash straight away.



Thanks for your feedback. I have a couple MMCX BT cables i've collected may give them a shot with them. I also just got these Blon BL03 a lot of folks were raging about, They sound pretty good for the money, very warm, but I really need to pull the trigger on the BT20s. all the cables I have for 2-pin and MMCX are BT 4.1 and 4.2.


----------



## HiFlight

13gsc13 said:


> What's the differences between the BT20 and the BT20S


BT20S adds Aptx, somewhat longer play time and some protection from moisture.


----------



## AudioNoob

I've ordered the JEET Air plus. As far as I can tell, they are the only tws under $75 ($55 or so)  with an app that can change sound profiles, button actions and offer firmware updates.


----------



## hifi80sman

AudioNoob said:


> I've ordered the JEET Air plus. As far as I can tell, they are the only tws under $75 ($55 or so)  with an app that can change sound profiles, button actions and offer firmware updates.


Interesting.  Looks like just a single BA drive unit?  Curious if they can reproduce lows sufficiently.  All single/dual BA setups I've tried have always been a light on the bass.  Admittedly, I do enjoy bass, so maybe I'm just not a BA only guy.

A little leery on the Chi-Fi Apps.  Spyware?  Maybe I'm just paranoid.


----------



## AudioNoob

hifi80sman said:


> Interesting.  Looks like just a single BA drive unit?  Curious if they can reproduce lows sufficiently.  All single/dual BA setups I've tried have always been a light on the bass.  Admittedly, I do enjoy bass, so maybe I'm just not a BA only guy.
> 
> A little leery on the Chi-Fi Apps.  Spyware?  Maybe I'm just paranoid.


It doesn't have ads and its on the official Google platform, it also works when you deny it permissions to files and such. I also can delete it once I put the settings I want it. I'll let you all know once I receive them. I prefer single ba earphones to dynamics generally so we shall see.


----------



## albau

pokenguyen said:


> The MW07 Go = MW07 + triple battery life
> MW07Plus = MW07 + triple battery life + ANC (not as good as Sony) + sensor to pause/unpause when you taking the phones out of your ears.


Not exactly, original MW07 has auto pause/resume. Other not mentioned  differences: MW07 Plus is smaller, besides ANC has transparency mode, lacks AAC support (only AptX).


----------



## chinmie

briank996 said:


> If anyone was interested in a TWS Etymotic, I’ve found that they work really well with the TRN BT20(S) adapters.
> 
> Needed to shave off about 1/32nd of the rubber on the TRN adapter for the MMCX to connect properly, then put a tiny bit of heat shrink over the adapter and the earphone to cover the small gap.  Very easy and heat shrink not necessary, just made it look pretty.
> 
> ...



i did try it a few months ago when i first got the BT20S, and i can confirn too that there's no hiss with the ER4XR. i even don't have to make any modifications / shaving the rubber to make a solid connection.

the only problem that i have with this combo is the way i use the Etys they need to point forward and up in my ears. add the really stiff cables of the BT20S, the only way i can fit it in my ears is with the BT20S unit in front of the ears.


----------



## jant71

A kinda funny new feature here... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



Philips new Action Fit wireless will have BT5.0,  6 hours battery life, 15 minutes for 1.5 hours quick charge, IPX5, wing tips for a secure fit, and....

the charge case UV cleanses the earbuds. Put them in the case and they undergo a UV cleaning cycle to "remove bacteria"


----------



## srinivasvignesh

albau said:


> Not exactly, original MW07 has auto pause/resume. Other not mentioned  differences: MW07 Plus is smaller, besides ANC has transparency mode, lacks AAC support (only AptX).



And the Go is 15% smaller than the Plus (both the case and the earphones). 

Go has better water resistance.


----------



## hifi80sman

jant71 said:


> A kinda funny new feature here...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


SOLD!


----------



## hifi80sman

jant71 said:


> A kinda funny new feature here...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Wow, bacteria AND it even removes the dreaded "acteria"!  Can't wait for this review.  I feel clean already!

Hopefully, they put more care in the TWS' than the website.

https://www.usa.philips.com/c-p/TAST702BK_00/actionfit-wireless-headphone#see-all-benefits


----------



## veraideishal

briank996 said:


> If anyone was interested in a TWS Etymotic, I’ve found that they work really well with the TRN BT20(S) adapters.
> 
> Needed to shave off about 1/32nd of the rubber on the TRN adapter for the MMCX to connect properly, then put a tiny bit of heat shrink over the adapter and the earphone to cover the small gap.  Very easy and heat shrink not necessary, just made it look pretty.
> 
> ...



Nice! I’m running ER2XRs using the Fostex TM2 (mentioned it earlier in the thread). Chose it over the BT20 due to the promise of an ambient mode (it... exists) and EQ functionality (“coming soon”). I also had to shave the plastic off the MMCX connectors due to the recessed plugs on Etymotics.

The upside-down wear style looks really interesting. How do they stay up??


----------



## Uncle00Jesse

Definitely returning the APP. Can’t get a seal in the right ear no matter the tip and sound quality is lackluster for $250.

interested now in the L2P. For anyone that’s had the Sony XM3s, how do the L2Ps compete sound wise? I thought the Sony’s were quite good. Will I really miss noise canceling if I went with the L2P? How well do they isolate for commutes?


----------



## Pete7874

hifi80sman said:


> Wow, bacteria AND it even removes the dreaded "acteria"!


Maybe it's Astria's little sister?  WTH is Astria anyway?


----------



## tma6

Uncle00Jesse said:


> Definitely returning the APP. Can’t get a seal in the right ear no matter the tip and sound quality is lackluster for $250.
> 
> interested now in the L2P. For anyone that’s had the Sony XM3s, how do the L2Ps compete sound wise? I thought the Sony’s were quite good. Will I really miss noise canceling if I went with the L2P? How well do they isolate for commutes?



I'm testing the L2Ps right now, also after returning the APPs. Will do a full review in a couple days. Missed noise cancelling at the beginning, but have already gotten used to it and don't miss it much anymore.


----------



## go0gle

I actually get a good seal with the Airpods but I still hear more outside noise compared to the lp2. What I would really miss is transparency mode... love that feature on the Apple product.  

but I totally agree on the SQ for $250, it’s too much. If I had to put a price on the sq of the AirPod pros it would be around $60-80


----------



## Mouseman

d3myz said:


> Thanks for your feedback. I have a couple MMCX BT cables i've collected may give them a shot with them. I also just got these Blon BL03 a lot of folks were raging about, They sound pretty good for the money, very warm, but I really need to pull the trigger on the BT20s. all the cables I have for 2-pin and MMCX are BT 4.1 and 4.2.


I also have the BLONs, they remind me of the P1s. I have to compare them some day.


----------



## d3myz

Mouseman said:


> I also have the BLONs, they remind me of the P1s. I have to compare them some day.


I have only used them once for a couple hours via bluetooth cable. I need to hook them up to my ipad. I should probably invest in a good inexpensive 2-pin and MMCX cable, any suggestion? I also need to pick up a DAC. was thinking of using the LG V30 as a player. sigh, so much stuff to get, so little time. back on topic, my Tranya Rimor's will be here tomorrow and I found the MX3's on the Military exchange for $179 no tax, I think i'm going to pull the trigger.


----------



## gibletzor

Does anyone else who has the Echo Buds have trouble with the sensitivity of the touch controls?  They just don't register that I've double tapped or long pressed like 80% of the time.  I sent my first set back after talking with Amazon about it and my 2nd set has the same issue.  I would assume it's a problem with my skin being too dry or oily or something, but my Galaxy Buds, Tranyas, and others with touch controls have NO ISSUES!


----------



## d3myz

gibletzor said:


> Does anyone else who has the Echo Buds have trouble with the sensitivity of the touch controls?  They just don't register that I've double tapped or long pressed like 80% of the time.  I sent my first set back after talking with Amazon about it and my 2nd set has the same issue.  I would assume it's a problem with my skin being too dry or oily or something, but my Galaxy Buds, Tranyas, and others with touch controls have NO ISSUES!


Holy cow, my dude. I was just on amazon looking at the echo buds. I was thinking about snagging a pair to compare to the Rimor which is coming tomorrow, but then I saw they got a 3.4/ 5 yikes.


----------



## gibletzor (Nov 20, 2019)

d3myz said:


> Holy cow, my dude. I was just on amazon looking at the echo buds. I was thinking about snagging a pair to compare to the Rimor which is coming tomorrow, but then I saw they got a 3.4/ 5 yikes.


I actually do like them overall.  The sound quality is very good!  Not Liberty 2 Pro good, but a little better than the Galaxy Buds, IMO.  The Passthrough is way better than the Galaxy Buds, and the Bose ANR works pretty well.  I'm working nights right now and it allows me to sleep through leaf blowers and mowers around me during the day!  lol    The charging case is the biggest disappointment as it doesn't have much room for 3rd party tips and it charges with Micro USB with no Qi wireless charging.  I really don't think they're deserving of a 3.4/5.  More like a 4.0-4.2, but they're not perfect either.  These touch controls are just bugging the heck outta me right now.  I am starting to see more and more reviews mentioning the touch controls now, so maybe it's not just me.

Edit: OK so lots of people are having issues with the touch controls it looks like.  Yikes!


----------



## webvan

No problems here with mine so far, touch wood ! What I HAVE noticed is that they do not respond well if they're NOT connected to my phone and with my main phone I have to turn BT On/Off for the connection to work properly (sound doesn't come through if not) but that's not the case with my more recent Android 9 secondary phone.

Now that I've found a good tip combo CP360+Wings I really like them a lot as they tick all the boxes as I've written in detail before. Yes there could be more room in the box but the CP360 size L fit so that's ok by me. TBH the fact that you can put wings is "priceless" and should be an option with all TWEs as that's the only real way to guarantee that the seal won't break if you're active. I still cringe when I remember the ordeal that was using the XM3s in that respect ! One thing I would like is a way to cycle through ANR/Ambient AND Off as you can't ride a bike with the first two modes due to wind noise getting picked up by the mics.


----------



## gibletzor

webvan said:


> No problems here with mine so far, touch wood ! What I HAVE noticed is that they do not respond well if they're NOT connected to my phone and with my main phone I have to turn BT On/Off for the connection to work properly (sound doesn't come through if not) but that's not the case with my more recent Android 9 secondary phone.
> 
> Now that I've found a good tip combo CP360+Wings I really like them a lot as they tick all the boxes as I've written in detail before. Yes there could be more room in the box but the CP360 size L fit so that's ok by me. TBH the fact that you can put wings is "priceless" and should be an option with all TWEs as that's the only real way to guarantee that the seal won't break if you're active. I still cringe when I remember the ordeal that was using the XM3s in that respect ! One thing I would like is a way to cycle through ANR/Ambient AND Off as you can't ride a bike with the first two modes due to wind noise getting picked up by the mics.


Yeah I don't know why they don't cycle through all 3 modes.  Sometimes you don't want Passthrough or ANR on and you have to open the app to change it.


----------



## mattedialdoc

Uncle00Jesse said:


> Definitely returning the APP. Can’t get a seal in the right ear no matter the tip and sound quality is lackluster for $250.



I too had a problem getting a seal on the right...and I switched the tips and tahdah it worked. Weird I know.


----------



## Erevan

Soul_Viper said:


> Hello everybody!!
> 
> I've read about this thread, so I've come to ask the experts some recommendations about best TWS in the market. I priorize the comfort followed by the sound quality.
> 
> ...



I've used the Creative Outlier Air (non-gold) for a while now, so I can speak to that. Just got the MW07 plus in the mail last night, so I can at least give an initial comparison. I'm not an audiophile, but my ears definitely can tell the difference. 

The Outlier Airs have really good passive isolation for me, better than earplugs. I've used them to avoid the snoring of my significant other for quite some time now. I used to be able to play brown/white noise on them throughout the night with my iPhone, but the phone died. I went with an Android for the first time and found that the battery life on the Creative Airs tanked big time. No matter the BT Codec (SBC, AAC, aptX) the battery life was never good enough to make it through ~7-8 hours of sleep. I would get a "low battery" warning screeching in my ear through the mid-morning hours.

Initially, the Outlier Airs had decent sound quality and the passive isolation made it shine that much more, but over time there was a slide in quality. Disconnects started occurring more often. I suddenly couldn't have my phone in the opposite hip pocket of the primary bud or it would literally skip like a record with every stride. Then one of the caps (button) started falling off. I admit to being an idiot using Gorilla glue, because it froze the membrane like concrete, it no longer functions as a button now (won't be able to reset it). The wax screen on the right bud gave way to a light brush as well, dramatically changing the sound signature and balance. Overall, its days were numbered. I can't recommend these buds from my experience. I bought them as they were being compared to the Sennheiser Momentums at a third of the price, but the QC brought the value of them down. Given my recent introduction the the MW07 plus buds, the claim to sound quality being comparable to the Momentums  seems more hearsay than experience. 

The MW07 Plus is a night and day change. *Keep in mind, due to having a very limited collection of headphones, this is just a comparison to the Outlier Airs. *
Out of the gate, the sound stage is amazing in comparison to the Outlier Airs. It's like removing a muffler from the entire frequency range. Admittedly, the passive isolation doesn't hold a candle to the Outlier Airs. The Ambient mode (coming from nothing) is fairly decent, but there is definitely some low hiss in the silence. It doesn't seem to resolve fan noise very well. I can't hear it when music is playing though. It works alright, but is nowhere near what I would consider a faithful reproduction of what I normally hear without something in my ear.

Connection quality is solid. I can leave my phone in the other room with no issues. I couldn't get ten feet from my phone with Creative Airs and aptX. I haven't had a disconnect yet with aptX on the MW07 Plus, but given that it's one night, that's not saying much. 

I haven't tested the call quality on these just  yet, will share experience if requested. 

Tried sleeping with them last night, but the standard wings were digging into my ears. Replaced them with the small wings and so far they feel great. Also will note that its easier to sleep on my side with these, but the fabric will rub against the housing and cause noise that isn't conducive to sleeping. I tried the small vs medium tips and found the medium really hold a good seal. Very comfortable, but I should note that my preference is silicone tips as opposed to foam tips. 

The sound is very neutral to my ears until the upper range, with a definite uptick on the mid-treble...just a tad harsh on the cymbals from listening to some classic rock on Tidal (master version of Fleetwood Mac's song, Second Hand News 2001 Remaster on their album, Rumours). 

I've tried enabling Dolby Atmos on my S10+ and found that it rounds out the frequency range...almost like wrapping it in a coat. Warmer bass and...maybe a little rounding off of the treble. Not as harsh, though my ears are not very well tuned.

That's my initial impression.


----------



## Caipirina

Gosh, few days I am not checking in here and like 10 new pages ...  well, skimmed through most ... 

Trying to curb my obsession, but I still have stuff in the mail and today the Sabbath X12 Pro in 'just' black arrived. And I am happy as a pig in the mud!
Connection is greatly improved over my Lezii X12, which are only BT4.2 and they came with little rubber wings, which actually seem to help with the fit security a bit, so I am planning on taking them out on a run tomorrow. Somehow I was expecting these to have wireless charging, like the E12, but I guess I was wrong. Not a big deal. At 31$ I can't complain, SQ is great as expected! Did not realize that triple click controls the volume. neat! 
Oh, and even though that seller, who promised to send by POS Malaysia, ended up sending with the dreaded SunYou, it only took 16 days (funny enough, even though it has a SY tracking number, the parcel has a china Post Small parcel label, i wonder if sunyou hitchhikes on whatever service they can get cheap) 

And reading scarbir.com for new stuff is always a mistake, i just HAD to order the Tronsmart beat now, first time I properly seen the shape of the buds  I know, could have gotten them on 11.11 for 5$ less, but well ... let's see ... 

Next week I will at least listen to the APP, and most likely buy  la la la 

So much for 'curbing the obsession'


----------



## Soul_Viper

Wow, I really appreciate your contribution @Erevan sharing your experience with both TWS. That's a clear and precise comparison betwen them.

So, the final list has been reduced for the moment:

- Sennheiser True Wireless
- Jabra Elite 75t
- Master & Dynamics MW07 Plus/Go
- Bang & Olufsen Beoplay E8 2.0


----------



## srinivasvignesh

Soul_Viper said:


> Wow, I really appreciate your contribution @Erevan sharing your experience with both TWS. That's a clear and precise comparison betwen them.
> 
> So, the final list has been reduced for the moment:
> 
> ...




Just to add some more information (from my personal experience, opinion), the Sennheiser MTW and MW07 Plus/Go are in a different league compared to Jabra/B&O, from a sound quality perspective.


----------



## Cretz42

d3myz said:


> Nice, I also reached out to Ida@tranya.com a couple weeks ago when they were on pre-order, told her I wanted to test them. She asked me to wait until they showed up on Amazon, so i'm hoping Tranya will comp. me like the did with the B530's. I'd suggest others to do the same and reach out for a demo.



Just FYI I reached out as well and Tranya offered to refund my purchase after reviewing. Bought on Amazon but won't be here until next Tues. Thanks for the tip!

But I also have a pair coming from pre-ordering directly from Tranya. Will either return those or sell to someone on this thread who would want to try them at a deep discount from $80.


----------



## webvan

Soul_Viper said:


> Wow, I really appreciate your contribution @Erevan sharing your experience with both TWS. That's a clear and precise comparison betwen them.
> 
> So, the final list has been reduced for the moment:
> 
> ...



Why not the Amazon Echo Buds ? As per my previous feedback they check all the boxes, SQ, best in class isolation (passive+ANR), Ambient, Fit, Comfort, Alexa (hands free, can be turned off) at a price that's very competitive. I'm surprised only 3 of us here have gone for them honestly when you see how many "compulsive" purchases there are for random TWEs


----------



## HiFlight (Nov 20, 2019)

srinivasvignesh said:


> Just to add some more information (from my personal experience, opinion), the Sennheiser MTW and MW07 Plus/Go are in a different league compared to Jabra/B&O, from a sound quality perspective.


Just to add another opinion, after creating my favored EQ profile, and 5 days of nearly continuous use, I consider my 75t to now rank at the top of my list of owned TWS phones,  considering SQ, comfort and features. (Using Android sources plus Sound+ app for customization )


----------



## hifi80sman

Soul_Viper said:


> Wow, I really appreciate your contribution @Erevan sharing your experience with both TWS. That's a clear and precise comparison betwen them.
> 
> So, the final list has been reduced for the moment:
> 
> ...


Apple user?  If you have an iPhone, heads up, the MW07 Plus does not have AAC, which is a big bummer.


----------



## Soul_Viper

hifi80sman said:


> Apple user?  If you have an iPhone, heads up, the MW07 Plus does not have AAC, which is a big bummer.



Android user


----------



## Soul_Viper

webvan said:


> Why not the Amazon Echo Buds ? As per my previous feedback they check all the boxes, SQ, best in class isolation (passive+ANR), Ambient, Fit, Comfort, Alexa (hands free, can be turned off) at a price that's very competitive. I'm surprised only 3 of us here have gone for them honestly when you see how many "compulsive" purchases there are for random TWEs



Thought about them, but as I could see user opinions are not enough possitive here


----------



## Soul_Viper

HiFlight said:


> Just to add another opinion, after creating my favored EQ profile, and 5 days of nearly continuous use, I consider my 75t to now rank at the top of my list of owned TWS phones,  considering SQ, comfort and features. (Using Android sources plus Sound+ app for customization )



Thanks for your opinion on them, I have seen very possitive feedback on jabra 75t

Could you share with us which are your favourite tws?


----------



## briank996 (Nov 20, 2019)

veraideishal said:


> Nice! I’m running ER2XRs using the Fostex TM2 (mentioned it earlier in the thread). Chose it over the BT20 due to the promise of an ambient mode (it... exists) and EQ functionality (“coming soon”). I also had to shave the plastic off the MMCX connectors due to the recessed plugs on Etymotics.
> 
> The upside-down wear style looks really interesting. How do they stay up??



I wanted to try the TM2 but couldn't justify the cost difference.  I also find the ER2XR sound to be the best of the ER range. 

Wearing my set upside down with the TRN works great.  The wires are really strong bends and just kind of clip on.  very secure.

Does the ambient mode work well?


----------



## tma6

Soul_Viper said:


> Wow, I really appreciate your contribution @Erevan sharing your experience with both TWS. That's a clear and precise comparison betwen them.
> 
> So, the final list has been reduced for the moment:
> 
> ...




If the price tag doesn't scare you I think the MW07 Plus is tops on this list imo, particularly if you have an Android. Also, if you just primarily care about SQ and comfort, from my first few days using them, the Liberty 2 Pros should also be on your list particularly if they are still on sale on Amazon with the code JIMMYL2P ($40 off). They sound great so far in my testing, especially if you love resonant bass and clarity.


----------



## Grayson73

Funcl W1S $19.99.  Use code F5F6APQO

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07Y9V2VTB/


----------



## AudioNoob (Nov 20, 2019)

I just got the JEET Air Plus,
The packaging and the build is quite exquisite for $55 earbuds. I like the sound a lot (I like balanced armatures) though the included tips, which cover half the body of the shell, are not the best sealing and don't help with bass. Luckily the stems are very normal so you can decapitate the covers and use whatever tip you want. The earbuds have a strange protrusion on the inner side of the shell (I think you are supposed to twist in under the anti-helix but that seems difficult) that might cause comfort issues with some, I haven't had hours to test it yet.

The box makes them very giftable for the season, but they have some touch issues they need to address.

*One unique aspect that they don't mention is that these are not touch controlled but work with haptic sensors.* You can flick your ears twice to get them to register an action if you so wished. I emailed them and hopefully they will update their descriptions, otherwise I see a lot of people getting confused and returning them.They also need a little more forceful of a rap than ideal to get going.

They have an app that allows you to update firmware (there is already one out to customize touch strength) and change sound profiles. They have a built in DSP (all qualcomm 30** ones do) and they allow a dynamic bass profile. I found the Pure Audio one to work best, but they don't have descriptions on the sound profiles so god knows what they do. The app also needs some english help, which I might just send them out of kindness since it's four lines of text 

They also connect as soon as you flip the lid up (the case has a pairing button for the first pairing) and so are connected by the time you get them to your ear. the earphones themselves have a discreet white led on the side.

Unfortunately they only have two actions (double tap right, double tap left). I'm also talking with them to get them to implement an optional single tap(they are concerned with accidental bumps since its haptic) and triple tap.

They don't hiss (not very audibly), and the microphones are quite good even with background noise. If they make the touch functionality a little more reasonable and include bonus baggy with a decapitated body cover and more robust tips they are a very easy recommendation in the $50 range.'ll make a more detailed review later.

Even if I'm stuck with play/pause and next track I don't see looking for more. Excitement aside, this is all very preliminary, if they start having connection issues, or if they are not unpairing and pairing as they should, I will note it.


----------



## tma6

d3myz said:


> Holy cow, my dude. I was just on amazon looking at the echo buds. I was thinking about snagging a pair to compare to the Rimor which is coming tomorrow, but then I saw they got a 3.4/ 5 yikes.



How are those Rimors?? I'm super curious.


----------



## Cretz42

tma6 said:


> How are those Rimors?? I'm super curious.



They took them off the Tranya site and are out of stock on Amazon until Nov 25th. Maybe got a huge rush of orders recently.


----------



## tma6

Cretz42 said:


> They took them off the Tranya site and are out of stock on Amazon until Nov 25th. Maybe got a huge rush of orders recently.




Word that makes sense. You got them?


----------



## HiFlight

Soul_Viper said:


> Thanks for your opinion on them, I have seen very possitive feedback on jabra 75t
> 
> Could you share with us which are your favourite tws?


75t
Mavin Air-X
Libratone Track Air+
Shanling MTW 100 (BA)
Bomaker SiFi


----------



## dweaver

L2P delivered at home so I should be able to give some first impressions later tonight.


----------



## briank996

veraideishal said:


> Nice! I’m running ER2XRs using the Fostex TM2 (mentioned it earlier in the thread). Chose it over the BT20 due to the promise of an ambient mode (it... exists) and EQ functionality (“coming soon”). I also had to shave the plastic off the MMCX connectors due to the recessed plugs on Etymotics.
> 
> The upside-down wear style looks really interesting. How do they stay up??



Any chance you could share a picture of how the TM2 connect with the etymotic?

Curious how you managed the insertion angle.


----------



## Cretz42 (Nov 20, 2019)

Cretz42 said:


> They took them off the Tranya site and are out of stock on Amazon until Nov 25th. Maybe got a huge rush of orders recently.



wrong quote


----------



## Cretz42

tma6 said:


> Word that makes sense. You got them?



Sure did. Going to get them comped with a review on Amazon and got another set last week direct from Tranya before they were on 'Zon at 50% off.


----------



## wavid

I just found out I can get a mmcx blue tooth module for my Tin T2s and I am super interested, 
what is the go to budget recomendations for mmcx?
TRN BT20s? or is there something newer that came out that I should look in to?


----------



## DigDub

Does the mw07 go sounds the same as the original mw07?


----------



## d3myz (Nov 20, 2019)

Ok, Tranya Rimor First impressions.

They sound pretty dang good, but I personally like the tuning of the B530 more and it's a toss up with the T5, some songs I thought the T5 killed, other songs the Rimor sounded better, every song the B530 soundest best. BUT....

The highs on the Rimor are rolled off, and they get a bit shrill at certain frequencies at louder volume. mids and high mids are pushed forward quite a bit unlike the B530  which def. has more recessed mids than the Rimor. Bass is there, it's not bad at all, not much sub bass but the low mids sound impressively responsive and defined better than the B530 but that thuddy bump is just missing completely, Sound stage i'd say is identical. When I put the 530's in it sounds like i'm sitting in a room with the band. The Rimor sounds like Tranya just took the B530, took the sub-bass out gave it great defined bass and mid-bass and pushed the mids and high mids way up. I'm not as technical as a lot of you blokes, but to me the guitars sound very similar when playing individually, but in a rock mix they sound thinner and the snare drums sound thinner, flatter and a bit dead to me, so take that for what it's worth. They more I listen to these with different songs the more I like them. I just listened to the first track I played though them and it sounds much better after an hour of consistent music going through them.

  I pulled out the MPOW T5 to compare it's has a mid-range more comparable to the Rimor and the T5 are def. more crisp, but the Rimor's soundstage and definition is better. Due to how narrow the T5 is it seems to get crowded when things get hectic. The fit of the Rimor is nice, however they have bulbs on them where the 530 doesn't. I believe there are tiny pressure relief holes at the top of the bulbs because no matter what tips I try, I can get them to feel snug but I don't get that sealed feeling. I wonder if I plug the holes if i'll get more bass? 

The bass is there, but I think it's what some of you bass-sensitive dudes call "balanced" or "audiophile tuned"  . Anyway, they sound nice, def. warrmer but also bright yet not crisp sig,  I'm going to continue to burn these suckers in. everything us is up to Tranya quality standard, the touch controls are great. Siri, volume and track fwd and back work flawlessly. My calls sound good and the mic seems to be as good at the B530's for the people i've talked to. Range is also fine. So far they are pretty nice, oh and I have no idea what environmental noise cancellation is. I thought it would be some type of ANC, but that's def. not it. All in all, i'd probably pay $40 for them. side note, I just compared them to the L2pro. Don't do that. the L2pro sounds SOOOO much better. If you put the L2pro on lounge they sound like better version the rimor.


----------



## willyk

d3myz said:


> Ok, Tranya Rimor First impressions.
> 
> They sound pretty dang good, but I personally like the tuning of the B530 more and it's a toss up with the T5, some songs I thought the T5 killed, other songs the Rimor sounded better, every song the B530 soundest best. BUT....
> 
> ...



Thanks for the review.  Mine will be here in a couple of days.  I was hoping that the increase in the Rimor driver size would result in improvements in the low end.  Definitely let them work for a few days.

I also have the T5's (my favorite) and the B530's (very good).  So I appreciate you comparing them directly with the Rimors.


----------



## XGUGU

Another ANC/Pass through competitor


----------



## tma6

d3myz said:


> Ok, Tranya Rimor First impressions.
> 
> They sound pretty dang good, but I personally like the tuning of the B530 more and it's a toss up with the T5, some songs I thought the T5 killed, other songs the Rimor sounded better, every song the B530 soundest best. BUT....
> 
> ...




Thanks for this. The L2P are so sick, I'm trying them out now.


----------



## tma6

XGUGU said:


> Another ANC/Pass through competitor




These look dope! I'm just happy some of the mid-tier manufacturers are coming out with complete products like this.


----------



## Timastyle

tma6 said:


> These look dope! I'm just happy some of the mid-tier manufacturers are coming out with complete products like this.


Do you know when this is coming out and at what price point?


----------



## jant71 (Nov 20, 2019)

Buuut, that case! From 1:55 to 2:05 in the video shows how clunky getting them out of the case can be. Why is the lid shaped that way? Sticking out in the middle like that wasn't the best way to go if it wasn't going to open wider. Still, they look sweet though I'd love another color option or two than the gun metal.


----------



## XGUGU

tma6 said:


> These look dope! I'm just happy some of the mid-tier manufacturers are coming out with complete products like this.





Timastyle said:


> Do you know when this is coming out and at what price point?


Early December for $119 according to the YouTuber.


----------



## Caipirina

d3myz said:


> Ok, Tranya Rimor First impressions.


----------



## dweaver

Ok, quick first impression if the L2P no app just straight listening from my S9 phone.

Sonically speaking these are awesome, they sound as good as I could have hoped for and I haven't even tried the app yet. I am really regretting all the money I paid for my Momentum True Wireless.

I can tell just from first blush I will enjoy these more than my MTW, GBuds, Sony WF-SP700N and a few other cheaply TW's I have bought. This is just based on sound quality alone. I am playing with the tips and find but know these are going to super comfy.

Damn, I am IMPRESSED!


----------



## Tavleen Suri

dweaver said:


> Ok, quick first impression if the L2P no app just straight listening from my S9 phone.
> 
> Sonically speaking these are awesome, they sound as good as I could have hoped for and I haven't even tried the app yet. I am really regretting all the money I paid for my Momentum True Wireless.
> 
> ...


Sweet....thanks for the first impressions....do let us know which tips work best for you...did you notice any hiss on your unit though ??


----------



## go0gle

I wanted to see if the new version of the lp2 has less hiss so I got a brand new pair from amazon, and yeah it’s a bit less, but for me personally it makes zero difference so I put them up for sale in the classifieds if anyone is interested.


----------



## veraideishal (Nov 20, 2019)

briank996 said:


> I wanted to try the TM2 but couldn't justify the cost difference.  I also find the ER2XR sound to be the best of the ER range.
> 
> Wearing my set upside down with the TRN works great.  The wires are really strong bends and just kind of clip on.  very secure.
> 
> Does the ambient mode work well?



The ambient mode is weird; the mics pick up almost every single knock, pop and click very well, but all speech sounds distant and muffled. So it’s okay for situational awareness, but not as a substitute to taking them out to talk to someone.



briank996 said:


> Any chance you could share a picture of how the TM2 connect with the etymotic?
> 
> Curious how you managed the insertion angle.



Here’s the right ear:






The wires are kinda short, so I don’t hook them onto my ears. They just kinda rest on my face behind the jawbone after I put them in.

Edit: Here’s a not-good artists’ impression of how they look on me


----------



## dweaver

I hear just a very faint hiss during quiet moments in songs but I am also 54 years old so do have hearing loss so dont notice it much.

I think I know why many people dont like the Hear ID feature. It's not meant to be an EQ setting. It is meant to compensate for hearing loss and differences between each ear. My hearing was quite different from left to right ears. I think it is the recommended Soundcore EQ with compensation for hearing loss in each ear. So if you dont like that EQ you won't like it just because its compensated for your ears.

I think I like Piano and Acoustic the most so far in regards to the presets.


----------



## dweaver (Nov 20, 2019)

I have developer mode enabled on my phone so flipped between APTx and ACC. ACC is slightly warmer smoothed over where as APTx has a brighter more analytical sound. So you can effect the sound by switching at least on a Samsung S9.

Listening to Nellie McKay Zombie a track that is great for determining 3D imaging qualities the L2P is above average but not as good as the best IEMs I have heard. But considering this bluetooth based and true wireless it's pretty amazing these compete as well as they do.

Went outside in the freezing north to see how the mic worked. Unfortunately no wind tonight to test that area but a bus went by and my wife could not hear it and she was amazingly clear on my end. I will report back what it's like in the downtown core tomorrow night and hopefully give a wind report.


----------



## Uncle00Jesse

Do the L2P support ACC with iPhones?


----------



## clerkpalmer

Uncle00Jesse said:


> Do the L2P support ACC with iPhones?


Yes


----------



## dweaver

Uncle00Jesse said:


> Do the L2P support ACC with iPhones?



I am using a Samsung and can switch from APTx to ACC so can't see why it will not work on an Apple phone.


----------



## dweaver (Nov 20, 2019)

After playing with the large soft bullet shaped tips I switched to the largest red cored tip and like it better. Both were comfy but the red core one is a bit more secure without loss in comfort. I also tried the large fins but went back to medium which are not quite as secure but more comfy. I am sure the medium fins will be fine for jogging and walking.

Really like the amount of accessories and tips included, it ensures these should work for most people. Some might wish for foam tips but they are almost always a throw away in the end relying on third party manufactured replacements so I am fine that they were not included.


----------



## vurtomatic

Hi everyone, hoping you can point me in the right direction or recommendation.

I'm looking for wireless earphones for my wife, the only requirement is long battery life as she wears them to sleep.

I searched the thread and LYPERTEK TEVI, AVIOT True Wireless Earphone TE-D01b and NUARL NT01AX-BM.have been mentioned.

Any chance there's someone who've tried all of them and can make a recommendation? Or is there another earphone to check out?

TIA!


----------



## D3soLaT3 (Nov 20, 2019)

d3myz said:


> Ok, Tranya Rimor First impressions.
> 
> Bass is there, it's not bad at all, not much sub bass but the low mids sound impressively responsive and defined better than the B530 but that thuddy bump is just missing completely, Sound stage i'd say is identical. When I put the 530's in it sounds like i'm sitting in a room with the band. The Rimor sounds like Tranya just took the B530, took the sub-bass out gave it great defined bass and mid-bass and pushed the mids and high mids way up.



I was highly anticipating some impressions, thank you. I have the Lenovo HT10 which are basically the Tranya T3 but with AptX. I do not mind the lack of sub bass since the HT10s are bass monsters and I don't need another basshead set. The Rimor's case looks identical to the T3/HT10 except it has usb-c. I went ahead and ordered them. Hopefully they will get here around the same time as my 11.11 purchase the Shanling MTW100 so I can compare and see which is the better $80 TWS.


----------



## ngd3

dweaver said:


> I have developer mode enabled on my phone so flipped between APTx and ACC. ACC is slightly warmer smoothed over where as APTx has a brighter more analytical sound. So you can effect the sound by switching at least on a Samsung S9.
> 
> Listening to Nellie McKay Zombie a track that is great for determining 3D imaging qualities the L2P is above average but not as good as the best IEMs I have heard. But considering this bluetooth based and true wireless it's pretty amazing these compete as well as they do.
> 
> Went outside in the freezing north to see how the mic worked. Unfortunately no wind tonight to test that area but a bus went by and my wife could not hear it and she was amazingly clear on my end. I will report back what it's like in the downtown core tomorrow night and hopefully give a wind report.



Just tried switching between codecs. AAC was muddy and less extended than Aptx, so seems like Aptx and switching EQ to taste is the way to go. 

Really want a good pair of TW buds that can do LDAC to compare...


----------



## dweaver

I dont think LDAC works with True Wireĺess. I own a few Sony products that use LDAC and the Radsone S100 and do appreciate LDAC but find it less necessary than I originally thought.


----------



## clerkpalmer

ngd3 said:


> Just tried switching between codecs. AAC was muddy and less extended than Aptx, so seems like Aptx and switching EQ to taste is the way to go.
> 
> Really want a good pair of TW buds that can do LDAC to compare...



If you are on android, skip AAC in favor of AptX. Sound guys tested AAC over android and found that android does not implement aac well. AAC works much better on iOS. As far as ldac tw buds, don’t hold your breath.


----------



## hifi80sman

dweaver said:


> Ok, quick first impression if the L2P no app just straight listening from my S9 phone.
> 
> Sonically speaking these are awesome, they sound as good as I could have hoped for and I haven't even tried the app yet. I am really regretting all the money I paid for my Momentum True Wireless.
> 
> ...


Glad you like them!  They really make remastered classic rock sound spectacular.


----------



## AudioNoob (Nov 21, 2019)

As I mentioned earlier, I was planning to see what other tips I can fit the jeet audio air plus. I decapitated the included small tips and installed the final audio e tips which are my favourite and are pretty much one of the largest out there with a longer bore. I'm happy to report that they still fit the case fine. They sound pretty good now that I can get a consistent seal with my large ears. I posted them on a plastic pen tip and ran around with a sharp utility/craft blade


----------



## d3myz

willyk said:


> Thanks for the review.  Mine will be here in a couple of days.  I was hoping that the increase in the Rimor driver size would result in improvements in the low end.  Definitely let them work for a few days.
> 
> I also have the T5's (my favorite) and the B530's (very good).  So I appreciate you comparing them directly with the Rimors.


with the larger drivers I thought so too. The more I use them the more i'm convinced the holes used to prevent them pressurizing your ears are hurting the bass reproduction much like the Tin Audio T2. Maybe i'll plug them and give it a shot. They really sound phenomenal for phone calls and audio books. The tuning is perfect for them.


----------



## d3myz

Caipirina said:


>


Right? I've been thinking about it on and off all day. So I looked it up.

*rimor*

rimor is Latin Here is the definition of rimor in English


*rimor* rimor, rimari, rimatus sum
_verb_ probe, search; rummage about for, examine, explore;
*rimor* to examine, explore, investigate, root up.
*rimor*_deponent verb_
probe, search; rummage about for, examine, explore


----------



## d3myz

tma6 said:


> Thanks for this. The L2P are so sick, I'm trying them out now.


SO SICK! Every time I come back to them, I can't believe how good they are. and I got the earlybird for $100. I would of gladly paid more.


----------



## d3myz

dweaver said:


> Ok, quick first impression if the L2P no app just straight listening from my S9 phone.
> 
> Sonically speaking these are awesome, they sound as good as I could have hoped for and I haven't even tried the app yet. I am really regretting all the money I paid for my Momentum True Wireless.
> 
> ...


I had trouble with the tips at first as well. switched to Spinfit 360's then JVC Spiral Dots and some random others that I have, after I got used to them not having to be pushed in as far as most of my other TWS' I inevitably I ended up back with the stock tips, I really like them.


----------



## d3myz

This is off topic but I have to share this with you Dudes. I've never owned a pair of ANC over the ear BT cans, So These came up as one of the test products from one of my amazon groups. I thought, what the hell at least I can see if ANC works and they look dec. and they'll be free etc.
So i'm actually blown away! They sound fantastic and the ANC works really well. @hifi80sman, I know you have those nice sony's and a couple others, I'd be VERY interested to hear your thoughts on these. So far they are super comfy, and the sound is crisp, clean and the bass is nice a full and defined, but not Bass-Head style. When I turn the ANC off they have a lot more mids and mid bass, it's weird, but both sound good and with ANC on it's drastically quieter. Anyway. I'm super impressed, had to share.


----------



## hifi80sman

d3myz said:


> This is off topic but I have to share this with you Dudes. I've never owned a pair of ANC over the ear BT cans, So These came up as one of the test products from one of my amazon groups. I thought, what the hell at least I can see if ANC works and they look dec. and they'll be free etc.
> So i'm actually blown away! They sound fantastic and the ANC works really well. @hifi80sman, I know you have those nice sony's and a couple others, I'd be VERY interested to hear your thoughts on these. So far they are super comfy, and the sound is crisp, clean and the bass is nice a full and defined, but not Bass-Head style. When I turn the ANC off they have a lot more mids and mid bass, it's weird, but both sound good and with ANC on it's drastically quieter. Anyway. I'm super impressed, had to share.


I just picked up the Sennheiser Momentum 3, so probably not going to go over ear for a bit.  Plus, they're harder to hide than TWS' and I don't want the other half to ask too many questions, given my typical response of "I already had that" probably won't work.  

Funny thing though, i did look pretty hard at those because EBPMAN on youtube as a good review of them.


----------



## bronco1015

After 1 week with the L2p, i am keeping them. I can't believe first off how comfortable they are for me, after putting on several different tips, i ended up using the stock smallest tips w small wings. i do wish the bass were a little tighter, but i've EQed enough of it out that theres still plenty and only occasionally do i hear to much for my preference. i've got a starting lineup at this point, Sennheiser MTW, L2p, Anbes359 Shanling MTW100BA and OfushoF16 for the shower.
This month was like surviver True Wireless island for me.
I bought the Galaxy buds, Backbeat pro5100, the Tevi's, Mavin AirXR, kozetonE8, Shanling MTW100BA and L2P.


----------



## bronco1015

A buddy texted me a link for these, anyone heard of them? The case has a bigger battery than my phone lol.

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B07TVWH5C3/ref=tsm_1_tp_tc


----------



## mjm2705

Coming really late to this thread and have to admit not having read all of it but wanted share my experience with the Creative Outlier Air ... will try and keep short!


I have had more sets of head / earphones over the years that I’m prepared to admit to my wife but fait to say it’s a lot


I wanted to ‘dabble’ in true wireless earlier this year without spending too much so when I saw the pre-release reviews of the Outlier Air I asked my wife to get me a set for my birthday in May.


When I got them I was hugely disappointed, muddy & bloated bass, volume too low, volume differential between left & right bud … really poor!


I read a few months ago about Creative starting to ship layer models with 2 sizes of ear tip so I contacted them and they sent out new tips … the larger ones made a tiny bit of a difference but the better seal they created led to muddier bass!


I pretty much gave up on the Outlier Airs and started to research options … my wife said she would get me new ones for Christmas!  Been looking at the Sony’s & RHAs but not overly impressed with spec / functionality of either.


Last weekend I was tidying out my headphone drawer and picked up the Outliers again and gave them a go … still the same (of course).


For some reason I started to clean the buds as I spotted some earwax deposits … I knew this wasn’t the reason they sounded bad as they had been bad from the start. 


While cleaning (using blutac to pull off the wax) the entire mesh protection layer / acoustic wadding came away from one of the buds … I was annoyed with myself but it wasn’t a disaster, these things are bad right?


To balance things up, I repeated the ‘error’ on the other bud and tried listening to them …


WHAT A DIFFERENCE!!!


High volume, balanced between buds … zero muddy bass, crisper treble … really, really nice!


Not RHA T20 nice but really good … particularly on the treble.


Been listening to them in this state for a few days and now really impressed … no plans to buy any other wireless buds any time soon.


So, if you have muddy bass and low volume on the Outlier Air’s and don’t mine taking the gamble … remove the acoustic wadding … you’ll be amazed!


Note they will be treble dominant, but I like listening to Grado and Shure SE425s in addition to RHA T20 so I’m good with treble.


----------



## Tossy

So I've been lurking on this thread quite a while. Reading reviews here and others found on google. But in the end reviews seem to contradict each other (in terms of SQ, but also fit and comfort).
I would love to just test the fit of some TWS (I could test the Jabra 65t elite, fit was good during the 10min I had them in), but returning them after wearing is often not accepted (which is quite reasonable to be honest).

So in the end I have my doubts about the budget I need to be happy with a TWS and about which technology I really need. I hope some of you share their experiences here.

User case: 90% with galaxy S10+ (netflix and spotify), 10% with computer and TV (mostly netflix and music, some gaming) to avoid keeping my partner awake when we have alternating shifts.

I really want to be able to use each bud separately as I'm doing the same with my normal buds.
I'm quite sensitive about latency, this has to be minimal (knowing that there will always be some using Bluetooth). How important is aptX/Qualcomm true wireless for this?
TWS like the Sony MX3 or Soundcore L2P are too big for my liking.
Multi-point connection would be nice but not a must.
<180$

Candidates so far are:
Sabbat E12 Ultra (the budget choice)
1MORE Stylish (in spite of micro-USB)
Creative Outlier Air (Gold?)
Aviot TE-D01b
Klipsch T5 (really liking the design)

Whats your take on this list?

Thanks in Advance!


----------



## BobJS

d3myz said:


> This is off topic but I have to share this with you Dudes. I've never owned a pair of ANC over the ear BT cans, So These came up as one of the test products from one of my amazon groups. I thought, what the hell at least I can see if ANC works and they look dec. and they'll be free etc.
> So i'm actually blown away! They sound fantastic and the ANC works really well. @hifi80sman, I know you have those nice sony's and a couple others, I'd be VERY interested to hear your thoughts on these. So far they are super comfy, and the sound is crisp, clean and the bass is nice a full and defined, but not Bass-Head style. When I turn the ANC off they have a lot more mids and mid bass, it's weird, but both sound good and with ANC on it's drastically quieter. Anyway. I'm super impressed, had to share.



Does anyone know the codec(s) for these?  Can they do LDAC?


----------



## willyk

d3myz said:


> with the larger drivers I thought so too. The more I use them the more i'm convinced the holes used to prevent them pressurizing your ears are hurting the bass reproduction much like the Tin Audio T2. Maybe i'll plug them and give it a shot. They really sound phenomenal for phone calls and audio books. The tuning is perfect for them.



I wonder if those holes will relieve the thudding sound from foot strikes when running?

Report back after you break these in a bit.  Interested in SQ, battery life and stability during activity.
Thanks!


----------



## Grayson73

d3myz said: ↑
I'm testing these Utaxo's tonight. First impressions are good. great bass, brighter highs, but not quite as sharp as the bomaker, reminds me of a better sounding B530, comfy fit. Get this, one touch is volume down on the left and one touch is volume up on the right, double touch is stop and start. Pretty clever. So far i've very impressed. @hifi80sman is it you who's a sucker for a nice metal case? this has an awesome case with a 2200mah battery but only a micro usb input? i'm not sure if it has an output to charge other devices. Anyway, i'm going to spend some time with them and leave my impressions later.



hifi80sman said:


> Yeah, I tried those already.  They were a little bass light for me and the touch controls on the unit I received didn't respond well.  I did like the case, but overall, the signature was a little too neutral for my personal taste.



These Utaxo are on sale for $32.49 after K745OZ5F + $10 Clip Coupon.

https://www.amazon.com/Wireless-Bluetooth-Headphones-Waterproof-Utaxo/dp/B07VZM7RN7


----------



## Soul_Viper

clerkpalmer said:


> If you are on android, skip AAC in favor of AptX. Sound guys tested AAC over android and found that android does not implement aac well. AAC works much better on iOS. As far as ldac tw buds, don’t hold your breath.



I have a question for you, soundguys is a reliable reviewer?


----------



## clerkpalmer

Soul_Viper said:


> I have a question for you, soundguys is a reliable reviewer?



I think their stuff is generally well done.  If you read the article, it's pretty scientific.  I have no reason to doubt their findings.  Their reviews can be a little short on detail (USA Today style) but their test results seem detailed.


----------



## dweaver

I have to say the buttons on the L2P while a bit tricky to use are far better than buttons or touch panels that push the IEM into the ear when you use them. I wish I could have more options for control but given a choice between simple volume control and the AI assistant, I will take volume control every time. I can always hold the phone up to my mouth to use Ggogle assistant...

Been using these all morning off and on without putting in the case and battery life has been barely touched. Almost 4 1/2 hours so far. My phone on the other hand down to 41% lol.


----------



## sanity8me

d3myz said:


> This is off topic but I have to share this with you Dudes. I've never owned a pair of ANC over the ear BT cans, So These came up as one of the test products from one of my amazon groups. I thought, what the hell at least I can see if ANC works and they look dec. and they'll be free etc.
> So i'm actually blown away! They sound fantastic and the ANC works really well. @hifi80sman, I know you have those nice sony's and a couple others, I'd be VERY interested to hear your thoughts on these. So far they are super comfy, and the sound is crisp, clean and the bass is nice a full and defined, but not Bass-Head style. When I turn the ANC off they have a lot more mids and mid bass, it's weird, but both sound good and with ANC on it's drastically quieter. Anyway. I'm super impressed, had to share.



Interesting find. How are they with phone calls? Maybe I'd consider them for work.


----------



## deadguy99

bronco1015 said:


> After 1 week with the L2p, i am keeping them. I can't believe first off how comfortable they are for me, after putting on several different tips, i ended up using the stock smallest tips w small wings. i do wish the bass were a little tighter, but i've EQed enough of it out that theres still plenty and only occasionally do i hear to much for my preference. i've got a starting lineup at this point, Sennheiser MTW, L2p, Anbes359 Shanling MTW100BA and OfushoF16 for the shower.
> This month was like surviver True Wireless island for me.
> I bought the Galaxy buds, Backbeat pro5100, the Tevi's, Mavin AirXR, kozetonE8, Shanling MTW100BA and L2P.


I have the mavin airx and have a love hate relationship with them, they have great overall sound but the eartip bore size is monstrous and they have an airtight seal so they cause massive suction cup effect and I can’t work or talk with them without ear pain and ended up buying comply t600s for them which help a lot, and the range on the Bluetooth seems to blow everything else that exists out the water with 30m range vs the standard 10. I’m super curious about the xr and I’m hoping they made the suction cup problem any better. Just purchased the soundcore l2p and get them tomorrow and I’m hoping they can compete


----------



## bronco1015

deadguy99 said:


> I have the mavin airx and have a love hate relationship with them, they have great overall sound but the eartip bore size is monstrous and they have an airtight seal so they cause massive suction cup effect and I can’t work or talk with them without ear pain and ended up buying comply t600s for them which help a lot, and the range on the Bluetooth seems to blow everything else that exists out the water with 30m range vs the standard 10. I’m super curious about the xr and I’m hoping they made the suction cup problem any better. Just purchased the soundcore l2p and get them tomorrow and I’m hoping they can compete


i'm wondering if i got a dud on the xr. Theres been such good feedback on the airX, but the xr with a great seal and comfortablee fit sounded really underwhelming. they sounded like a cheap $10 bluetooth i bough once for the hell of it, though not quite as good honestly. Curious what your thoughts will be on the L2P. are you going to get the xr's as well?


----------



## deadguy99

bronco1015 said:


> i'm wondering if i got a dud on the xr. Theres been such good feedback on the airX, but the xr with a great seal and comfortablee fit sounded really underwhelming. they sounded like a cheap $10 bluetooth i bough once for the hell of it, though not quite as good honestly. Curious what your thoughts will be on the L2P. are you going to get the xr's as well?


I will if I don’t like the l2p just to see if anything important was truly improved on, my iem of choice for years has been the gr07bass edition so anything similar to that sound sig is what I’m lookin for. The mavin airx doesn’t sound anything like them, but I only use them at work in a loud factory so the fact that they have a warm and slightly forward midrange and decent bass and treble with nothing really standing out as bad about them, which isn’t something I can say about a lot of more expensive headphones, so ya they may sound kinda cheap(I don’t know I’ve never bought a cheap iem in my life) but for a Bluetooth earbud I think they hit most of the important features for me


----------



## deadguy99

Recently tried the ear studio es100 which sound amazing and had a great app to control features and eq, but my goodness was the Bluetooth connection quality awful, like 10-15 feet from my phone and it was becoming intermittent.
 Can anyone with a l2p comment on connection quality with their phone on the other side of a room etc.


----------



## Luchyres

bronco1015 said:


> i'm wondering if i got a dud on the xr. Theres been such good feedback on the airX, but the xr with a great seal and comfortablee fit sounded really underwhelming. they sounded like a cheap $10 bluetooth i bough once for the hell of it, though not quite as good honestly. Curious what your thoughts will be on the L2P. are you going to get the xr's as well?



I'm very curious to hear a second opinion on the air-xr as well - as I share your surprise that your experience with them was so bad given how many people liked the Air-x. I tried the X, but didn't like it for the bass quality/quantity (or lack thereof). I'm keen on the XR due to the case size and was hopeful the sound might be even better - so my hope was that you got a dud!

We'll see eventually though... For now, I'm only eyeing the Nuarl N6 Pro until we find out if your experience with the XR is consistent with others'.

Thank you for sharing!


----------



## tma6

deadguy99 said:


> Recently tried the ear studio es100 which sound amazing and had a great app to control features and eq, but my goodness was the Bluetooth connection quality awful, like 10-15 feet from my phone and it was becoming intermittent.
> Can anyone with a l2p comment on connection quality with their phone on the other side of a room etc.



Connection on L2P is great. Full review coming soon.


----------



## dweaver

deadguy99 said:


> Recently tried the ear studio es100 which sound amazing and had a great app to control features and eq, but my goodness was the Bluetooth connection quality awful, like 10-15 feet from my phone and it was becoming intermittent.
> Can anyone with a l2p comment on connection quality with their phone on the other side of a room etc.



Just walked 40 paces from phone around several walls in office building before it started to cut out. Signal strength is pretty darn good I would say.


----------



## dweaver (Nov 21, 2019)

OK quick update on L2P.

Battery lasted right in around 8hrs before the right ear started to complain the battery was getting low. It was basically 20% lower than the left ear most of the day so I wonder if it was seated properly when charging last night.

Made 2 lengthy phone calls. First one was during the height of lunch hour traffic on the plus 15 in the downtown core, walking through very busy food courts and busy walkways. At the loudest points of my walk my mom said it sounded like I was suddenly speaking away from the speaker if I was talking on a phones loud speaker. I suspect as part of the ANC function these switch microphone sides if they detect to much noise on one side of the head over the other and this brief change caused the clipping type sound she heard. Other than this worst case situation she said I was very clear and she could not hear all the background noise around me. Some of that noise was even things like a loud busker playing and accordion! The 2nd call was to my wife while I walked down the street amidst rush hour traffic and she said I sounded clear the entire time and could not hear all the traffic around me. The only thing I have not tested is heavy wind as it was a relatively mild day with wind.

Thing I miss most compared to my MTW is ambient/passthrough mode in the office. Also wish it had ANC but suspect the trade off in wind noise outside would make that feature a draw.

I am hearing footfall thumping but no more than most IEMs. I am going to switch back to the large fins to see if they will help with this issue and increase the isolation a bit.

Found myself tapping to my music way more often than any other TW I have used...


----------



## Pete7874

Update on my L2P, using smallest tips and medium wings, I am getting ear fatigue after only 30 mins of play time, alas, I think I just have challenging ears because I have yet to find any IEMs that would not cause me pain.   Going to try the small wings next.


----------



## SilverEars

dweaver said:


> OK quick update on L2P.
> 
> Battery lasted right in around 8hrs before the right ear started to complain the battery was getting low. It was basically 20% lower than the left ear most of the day so I wonder if it was seated properly when charging last night.
> 
> ...


These TW mics work really crappy because it's trying to pick up sound waves that's projected mainly forward of the mouth.  Not sure if these mic performance can get any better.  Recently saw the video of Jabra 75t mic, and it sounds muffled. Big caveat of TW, and for me, mic quality is really important so that people on the other end doesn't stress trying to figure out what is being said.  It's annoyance to hear such low fidelity, and trying to figure out what is said causes brain fatigue I'm sure.


----------



## FYLegend

Has anyone here tried Jabees Firefly.2? They're 30% off for Black Friday (regular price 99$ USD). They told me the sound and call quality is improved over the Firefly Pro but didn't specify what they meant by that. I just hope it's more balanced than the Firefly Pro which is very boomy in the midbass and the isolation is mediocre. 

The Edifier TWS NB looks promising too and is one of the cheaper options that has USB-C, AptX, ANC and hearthrough, but sadly no volume control. Brian's demo also sounds rather shrill and bright in the treble.


----------



## go0gle

On the lp2 the reason why the right ear drops battery faster than the left is because that’s the one reviving the signal from the source and sharing it white the left. It will always go first..


----------



## mjb152

Pete7874 said:


> Update on my L2P, using smallest tips and medium wings, I am getting ear fatigue after only 30 mins of play time, alas, I think I just have challenging ears because I have yet to find any IEMs that would not cause me pain.   Going to try the small wings next.


It took me 3 days to get mine right, the right ear hurt a bit at times.. Now I'm super happy


----------



## Quicky32

I've been reading and watching reviews for weeks and there seems to be a bunch of good choices under $150....I don't know how to make a decision, lol.


----------



## dweaver

Well tried large fins on the L2P but they hurt my ears after an hour of use so back to medium fins as comfort wins out over any small gain in isolation and possible less foot noise.

Have to say I haven't felt like listening to music this much in a while. I know some of this is honeymoon phase but the rest is just enjoying the added detail and musical ability of a good earphone.

I suspect I will happy for a good while with the L2P.


----------



## voicemaster

Ordered fill t1x on a whim and just received it today. Sound is very good. Clear high, mid and bass. It sounds similar to tranya b530, but with tighter bass and a little bit more forward mid. Connection is fast and pretty stable. The case is pretty small (smaller than mpow t5) and I can insert it to the watch pocket on my jeans which is pretty nice.


----------



## Darkestred (Nov 22, 2019)

*Noble Falcon TWS. *

With the long shape and slighly bulbous end these were a little tricky at first to get a good fit.  The long nozzle helps but for those who have funny ears it wont be enough, definitely play with tip selection.  I had fitment issues with the default stock tips and just decided to use the smallest set from the noble package and that helped tremendously but not without the following:  Twisting the iem into the ear a few times really "screws" the tips in snug.  Twisting the iem in such way its possible to rest a large portion of the bulge on the bottom part of your ear.  With that said, these are actually damn nice.

These will satisfy my TWS hunt until we start seeing crazy ba/dd/es setups.

For those who are on the fence about fitment the best iems that never fell out of my ears were: Phonak PFE122 and the generic AKGs that come with Samsungs.  Second tier is Vsonic Gr07 and Fischer Audio Eterna.  The Falcons fall somewhere inbetween.

Iems that didnt work for me (fitment wise):  SWIII, Ofusho, Periodic Be, Lz A2, any bullet shaped iem and just about any other non-angled nozzle.

For sound its kind of dark with everything sounding distant.  I bumped up the mids and im really enjoying it.  There isn't much midbass so you kind of get what the recording calls for but there is rumble and it sounds quality.  The highs are sparkly.  Not not harsh but almost sound unrealistic.  As time has gone on that has settled down.  

The separation is good considering the sound sig.  If i want to go to the noble sound i can flatten out my eq.  Nice compliment to my current setup.


----------



## srinivasvignesh

Darkestred said:


> *Noble Falcon TWS. *
> 
> With the long shape and slighly bulbous end these were a little tricky at first to get a good fit.  The long nozzle helps but for those who have funny ears it wont be enough, definitely play with tip selection.  I had fitment issues with the default stock tips and just decided to use the smallest set from the noble package and that helped tremendously but not without the following:  Twisting the iem into the ear a few times really "screws" the tips in snug.  Twisting the iem in such way its possible to rest a large portion of the bulge on the bottom part of your ear.  With that said, these are actually damn nice.
> 
> ...




Thanks. Few questions if I may?

- How big is the case? Seems like they borrowed the Sabbat case. If so, it would be pretty small.
- How is the isolation once you get a good fit?


----------



## d3myz

dweaver said:


> Well tried large fins on the L2P but they hurt my ears after an hour of use so back to medium fins as comfort wins out over any small gain in isolation and possible less foot noise.
> 
> Have to say I haven't felt like listening to music this much in a while. I know some of this is honeymoon phase but the rest is just enjoying the added detail and musical ability of a good earphone.
> 
> I suspect I will happy for a good while with the L2P.


I feel the exact same every time I use them. Music sounds so good on them.


----------



## go0gle

Glad to know I am not the only one who enjoys the lp2 sound .. I thought I was overhyping them a bit


----------



## tma6

Alright guys, here is my review of the Anker Soundcore Liberty 2 Pros after about 5 days of use:

As per usual, going to go into everything in detail, but I can say right off the bat that the Liberty 2 Pros to me are clearly among the best TWS out there on the market right now. For $150 (though you can knock them down to about $119 on Amazon right now with the promo code JERRYL2P), I really think this is some of the best sound you can get on TWS at the moment. While they're on the bigger side in terms of form factor, and have a very slight hiss in the background (which is barely noticeable for the most part), the sound quality, comfort, stable connectivity, good battery life, and even great phone call quality more than make up for these slight deficiencies.

Sound Quality: Based on sound quality alone, the Liberty 2 Pros are absolute beasts. These things completely live up to the "Pro" moniker in their name, unlike certain products from some other fruit-based brands out there... In fact, every time I put these things in my ears I feel like I'm actually wearing a piece of professional audio equipment. Everything the Liberty 2 Pros play, they do so with authority and confidence. They have a forward, in your face sound, with a slightly U-shaped signature, but also one that does not lack in refinement and detail. It really makes you want to re-listen to music in your library that you've heard 1000 times, just to hear how it sounds on these. To let you guys know, I tried almost every EQ setting on these and there are a bunch of good ones - e.g. Piano and Acoustic - but I settled on Vocal Booster which seemed to bring the mids to life a bit, reduced the bass slightly, and balanced out the sound nicely. As a result, my evaluation of the sound was done while using the Vocal Booster EQ preset. While the Liberty 2 Pros definitely have a few small issues that I will discuss below, I have not heard a TWS in this price range (or even a few notches above) that rivals the sound that these are able to pump out. 

Bass: The Liberty 2 Pros are bass monsters. The bass is beefy, resonant, deep and punchy. It envelopes the eardrum and really makes you feel something, particularly on electronic, modern hip-hop, rock, EDM, reggae, and even jazz tracks that allow the bass to shine. While it is relatively loose and wide, it also manages to be pretty damn clean. It is just so fun to experience such a resonant bass experience on TWS. I would go as far as to say that I have not heard anything in the TWS world, besides maybe the Sennheiser MTWs (which are a bit smoother and more accurate in the bass), that are able to replicate the Liberty 2 Pros' combination of quality and power in the low end. A couple things that I will say here is that sometimes it can be slightly too much and lack a tiny bit of detail in more refined classical works or in slightly poorer-quality recordings. This is particularly evidenced with solo piano music, where sometimes the lower piano notes lose a bit of their attack. Further, on some older hip-hop tracks, such as with a Tribe Called Quest, I did feel that the bass was sometimes a little on the strong side for my liking. The good thing though is that the bass does not bleed into the other frequencies ranges despite its strength, and has phenomenal extension and rumble for TWS. Overall, just epic bass response here. 

Mids: When I first started listening to the Liberty 2 Pros, I did feel that the mids were a bit pulled back in the mix. However, the EQ settings that come with the companion app are actually really solid and were able to remedy this issue. On the Acoustic, Piano, and Vocal Booster settings, the mids become much more prominent. Further, once they are brought out a bit, you start to realize that the mids are actually fantastic. Both male and female vocals sound excellent, with good detail, emotion, and breathiness. Actually, the overall detail retrieval in the mid-range is great. Brass, cellos and violas, mid-range drums, woodwinds, and _especially _guitars (guitars sound fantastic on these) sound rich and are excellently portrayed. I would not say this is a super natural or hyper-realistic midrange (like you'll find on some higher grade wired headphones, or even on the MW07s), as it does sound a little colored. However, it still is highly enjoyable to listen to. 

Highs: The highs on the Liberty 2 Pros are just fantastic for this price and also given that in general TWS often struggle with highs due to the complexities that come along with compressing higher range frequencies over bluetooth. The BA drivers are really doing their job here in rendering crispy cymbals and high-hats, smooth high-range vocals, and pinpoint bleeps and bloops heard in a lot of modern hip-hop and EDM. Reggae sounds particularly great on these in my opinion, as the percussion is able to really stand out and form a great stage. The detail retrieval overall in the highs is very good, though I still do think that the Lypertek Tevis are tops in terms of highs on a mid-range TWS. Also, the MW07s very slightly edge these out in terms of pure detail, though I do think these can be a bit less "hot" in the treble for the most part, and are therefore sometimes easier to listen to for extended periods of time. When compared side by side to the Tevis, the Liberty 2 Pros produce a little more of a compressed sound when it comes to cymbal decay, however the actual hit of the cymbal and detail of the sound is certainly there. On the whole, somewhat surprisingly, the highs really get the job done here and just add to the overall high-quality sound experience. 

Soundstage/Imaging: For a pair of TWS, the soundstage is actually very good. These have a nice spaciousness to the sound, highlighted by an expansive low-end. While not super wide, the instrument separation is top-notch, as the frequency ranges never seem to step over each other. Imaging is also pretty accurate, and you get a real sense of a stage-like presentation because of it. It's not some crazy huge stage, but at least you can sort of picture it when you close your eyes. In the end, I never felt like the music was closed in, and to me that's an accomplishment on a set of mid-range TWS.

Overall, the sound on these things is so damn good. It certainly rivals that of much more expensive competitors. I can't imagine what else you could ask for out of a set of $150 (or less) TWS earbuds. I really just love listening to music on them. There is one small thing I do need to address here. There is a slight background hiss at very low volumes that most obviously presents itself right before a song or a video is about to play. However, I really don't notice it at all when listening to music, or even when listening to a podcast. Regardless, I'll take this level of sound quality for this price with a slight background hiss any day of the week. 

Look/Fit: Going back to what I said before, it really feels like you're wearing some real audio equipment when you put the Liberty 2 Pros on. They feel substantial and utilitarian. They definitely stick out a bit from the ears and are a little bulky, but I actually don't mind how they look too much. They kind of just look like old bluetooth headsets, and since that look has pretty much been normalized throughout the years, I don't feel ridiculous walking around in these. I also found them to be surprisingly comfortable given their size and the fact that I have small ears. There are so many ear-tips and wing-tips to choose from that you're bound to find a good fit. That being said, I wouldn't say these are the most comfortable on the market (see Airpods Pro), but I am still able to wear them for long periods of time without too much fatigue. 

Extra Features: Unfortunately, these don't have ANC or pass-through modes, which I actually missed more than I thought I would in the first day of testing. I really liked these features on the Airpods Pro, particularly when on the subway (ANC) or when trying to talk to people at a coffee shop (Transparency). However, I quickly got over it and now appreciate the good seal that these are able to provide. On the plus side, the app is really great, with excellent EQ settings that make a real difference in the sound, and I really like the ability to customize the controls. Regarding the controls, if you're willing to sacrifice the Previous Track function, you can control everything else with the buds. Right now I have it so a double press on the left is Volume Down, double press on the right is Volume Up, long press on the left is Smart-Assistant, and long press on the right is Next Track. Since I don't use the Previous Track function very often, this works just fine for me. 

Battery: Battery life is great. I left them out and played them at 80% volume for about 6 hours and still had 30% battery to spare when I picked them up again. Also, the fast charging on the case is very good, as about a 10-15 minute pop in the case charged them up from about 40% to 80% (approx. an extra 2-3 hours of playtime). 

Case: I really liked the case on these actually. While it's not the smallest, it has a nice thin oval shape to it that fits in a pocket without too much bulge. It's also got a smooth texture to it, and the satisfying one-handed opening mechanism has turned the case into a bit of a fidget-spinner for me. I also don't feel a rush to have to keep recharging it, as I've only had to charge it up once this week. Not the best, but certainly not the worst, and they've done a good job given that the earbuds themselves are on the larger side. 

Microphone/Calls: This really surprised me. I was expecting the microphone to be pretty mediocre, but actually these are 100% usable even in a noisy NYC environment. I have received almost no complaints, even when the wind has picked up, though people have occasionally asked me to repeat myself. That being said, they have not complained about loud sirens going off in the background, which is my #1 test of a good mic. Really great, perhaps not Airpods Pro or MW07+ level, but way better than expected. 

Connectivity: Really top-notch connectivity. The Liberty 2 Pros support both Apt-X and AAC codecs and held a rock solid connection with both my iPhone and Windows computer. Very happy with the bluetooth transmission. On maybe one or two occasions I heard some track skipping when connected to my Windows computer, but overall very solid. The one thing is that switching between devices was slightly tedious, as you have to turn off bluetooth on one device to connect with a second and vice-versa, but this is a pretty minor inconvenience when you look at the overall package here. 

Conclusion: The Liberty 2 Pros are some of my favorite TWS that I've tried so far and I've tried an absolute ton of them. They are no doubt among the best in terms of sound quality, while also excelling in the key areas that you look for in a quality set of TWS. If you're not a fan at all of a bassy sound signature, perhaps these might not be for you, but even then the bass is just so awesome that you may just like hearing certain types of bass-centric music on them. Also, there is a Bass-Reducer EQ preset in the app if you need. On the other hand, if you like headphones with a deep resonant bass that also manage to maintain good quality and clarity in the mid to high frequency ranges, I highly recommend that you check these out. The price is also very fair for what you're getting, making the Liberty 2 Pros a great value purchase. All in all, these are a definite keeper for me.


----------



## dweaver

Awesome review and thanks about how you set the controls. Didn't think to do that and prefer those settings. Now I have my most needed settings . These really do kick butt!


----------



## Invalid

Anyone tried the ones he recommended?


----------



## Darkestred

srinivasvignesh said:


> Thanks. Few questions if I may?
> 
> - How big is the case? Seems like they borrowed the Sabbat case. If so, it would be pretty small.
> - How is the isolation once you get a good fit?




It does appear to be the same as the sabbat.  The case is roughly 1.5" (38.1mm) high and ~2.5" (63.5mm) wide.  Its very possible to use after market tips and encounter no charge issues.  I used a medium size pair and the iems went perfectly into the case.

I took these to the gym and the music is usually very loud there.  I couldn't hear anything but its possible the music was playing softly.  I used them around the house and i couldn't hear anything when people were talking to me.  I do not listen very loud but i also do not listen very low, either 

I'll be using this for the gym more often than not.  I'll report back with isolation after a couple more visits.


----------



## Caipirina

Anyone else notice that KZ has been kinda quiet? 
They announced the T1 end of July and the E10 end of September ... now it is end of November! Where is my next KZ TWS? 

Also, did anyone receive the white or grey models? Don't recall seeing pics other than the ones on AliX


----------



## clerkpalmer

Caipirina said:


> Anyone else notice that KZ has been kinda quiet?
> They announced the T1 end of July and the E10 end of September ... now it is end of November! Where is my next KZ TWS?
> 
> Also, did anyone receive the white or grey models? Don't recall seeing pics other than the ones on AliX


I still have mine in the box unwrapped.  After the disappointing reviews, I didn't bother to open them.  I guess I'll give them a shot.


----------



## Caipirina

clerkpalmer said:


> I still have mine in the box unwrapped.  After the disappointing reviews, I didn't bother to open them.  I guess I'll give them a shot.



LOL, truly a new sign of having 'too much audio gear' ... can't even be bothered to unbox  

I still very much like both my KZ, I just don't have much time to use them, as most of my music listening happens while running ...


----------



## Mouseman

I sent my E10s back, thankfully it was "free" local refunds on Ali. I couldn't deal with the BT connection issues -- even after a reset, they were terrible. I think there is some bad shielding near the connection of the arm to the body of the unit, because if I grasped the left bud near that spot, it would drop the connection. But even without doing that, I couldn't even get consistent reception with my phone sitting on the table in front of me. So thankfully I got a full refund and they no longer trouble me. It's too bad, the sound was quite nice (but the L2Ps are far superior).

The T1s are so much better, I don't think they were that far off. I don't know how they could have gone so wrong from one to another. Other companies have figured out TWS (even if they had to outsource it), so I'm not sure why it's so hard for KZ.


----------



## CardigdanWalk

Caipirina said:


> Anyone else notice that KZ has been kinda quiet?
> They announced the T1 end of July and the E10 end of September ... now it is end of November! Where is my next KZ TWS?
> 
> Also, did anyone receive the white or grey models? Don't recall seeing pics other than the ones on AliX



I picked up the grey ones, but have only listened to them once or twice, don’t know if it’s the case size or what, but didn’t sit well with me.

much preferred the T1’s but mine were stolen from the case! (Leaving me with just the case, very bizarre)

will probably sell them sometime soon!

edit: I’d you want some photos let me know, can share tonight


----------



## D3soLaT3

For anyone considering the Rimor (or any Tranya product) they are offering 40% off for Black Friday. Use code BFTR40 to get the Rimor for $47.99.

So glad I bought from Amazon.


----------



## d3myz

D3soLaT3 said:


> For anyone considering the Rimor (or any Tranya product) they are offering 40% off for Black Friday. Use code BFTR40 to get the Rimor for $47.99.
> 
> So glad I bought from Amazon.


Thanks, man. The more I use the Rimor, the more bummed out I get. For me it's almost unusable for music, but it's fantastic for audiobooks and podcasts.


----------



## Jules7

So I just got the Mpow M5 earlier this week. I found that the bass is very good and solid. Just wish there's more in terms of crisp & high. 
Not an audiophile but I feel that the M5 has warmer sound signature. There's also a surprise, zero lag with Youtube on iPhone! Now I have an excuse to give it to the wife and get the L2P!


----------



## Mouseman

d3myz said:


> Thanks, man. The more I use the Rimor, the more bummed out I get. For me it's almost unusable for music, but it's fantastic for audiobooks and podcasts.


I am not happy to hear your take on them -- I had high hopes for a bigger driver, since I really like my B530s. My pair should be here next week, I contacted Ida to get a comped pair since I did the same for the B530s. Oh, well -- at least they won't cost me anything if they end up sucking.


----------



## d3myz

I'm with you man. Just remember audio is all subjective so they may be awesome for you! I've definitely heard worse and I haven't tried to EQ them, You can tell they have quality drivers and they have nice response, but the high mid boost is just not a sound I prefer, i'm like shocking disappointed everytime I listen to them, but at least they are free. Also, no wireless charging, sigh.


----------



## webvan

Jules7 said:


> So I just got the Mpow M5 earlier this week. I found that the bass is very good and solid. Just wish there's more in terms of crisp & high.
> Not an audiophile but I feel that the M5 has warmer sound signature. There's also a surprise, zero lag with Youtube on iPhone! Now I have an excuse to give it to the wife and get the L2P!



Yes they lack "crispness" and the same "punch" in the mids and highs. I think they've been hyped a bit too much on here...I don't find myself using them much anymore now that I have the much better, much more feature rich (and more expensive) Amazon Echo Buds !


----------



## hifi80sman

d3myz said:


> Thanks, man. The more I use the Rimor, the more bummed out I get. For me it's almost unusable for music, but it's fantastic for audiobooks and podcasts.


@d3myz does it have any type of active noise cancellation?


----------



## d3myz

hifi80sman said:


> @d3myz does it have any type of active noise cancellation?


Nope. it's Environmental Noise Cancellation is like CVC.


----------



## hifi80sman

d3myz said:


> Nope. it's Environmental Noise Cancellation is like CVC.


Thanks.  I didn't think so and their marketing piece is definitely misleading.


----------



## david8613

new tranya!!! I love tranya! usb c! touch controls! 8 hours! 40 total hours! 

https://www.tranya.com/rimor-true-wirless-earbuds-p0022.html


----------



## mjb152

L2pro just got a firmware update


----------



## d3myz

david8613 said:


> new tranya!!! I love tranya! usb c! touch controls! 8 hours! 40 total hours!
> 
> https://www.tranya.com/rimor-true-wirless-earbuds-p0022.html


I got these yesterday. My impressions are a couple pages back. I'm not a fan.


----------



## d3myz

mjb152 said:


> L2pro just got a firmware update


What is the firmware version? I'm currently on 1.15.


----------



## mjb152

I got these last week, it said 1.15. I just opened the app and it said there was an update, it applied it, now it reports 1.15.  Strange


----------



## facethemusic88

How do you guys deal with these wireless buds that have press control button? Each time I press the buds to increase volume or switch tracks, it does get stuffed deepr into my ear canals and I find this annoying. The Mpows is a let down for me on this aspect. I wonder if this is the case with just about all other buds with press controls.

I got the Tronsmart spunky beats and they have been great(fit & ease of controls).I prefer the sound quality on the Mpow T5s though. Both are equally bassy with nice mids and highs but the T5s have that tad bit of overall clarity. Not for critical listening but will do for a workout. 

Anyone tried the Bomaker Sifi?


----------



## mattedialdoc

facethemusic88 said:


> How do you guys deal with these wireless buds that have press control button? Each time I press the buds to increase volume or switch tracks, it does get stuffed deepr into my ear canals and I find this annoying. The Mpows is a let down for me on this aspect. I wonder if this is the case with just about all other buds with press controls.
> 
> I got the Tronsmart spunky beats and they have been great(fit & ease of controls).I prefer the sound quality on the Mpow T5s though. Both are equally bassy with nice mids and highs but the T5s have that tad bit of overall clarity. Not for critical listening but will do for a workout.
> 
> Anyone tried the Bomaker Sifi?



I like the Bomaker. Bart will have a review soon also....


----------



## voicemaster

Jules7 said:


> So I just got the Mpow M5 earlier this week. I found that the bass is very good and solid. Just wish there's more in terms of crisp & high.
> Not an audiophile but I feel that the M5 has warmer sound signature. There's also a surprise, zero lag with Youtube on iPhone! Now I have an excuse to give it to the wife and get the L2P!



The fiil t1x sound similar with better high extension than the m5 imho.


----------



## SilverEars (Nov 22, 2019)

facethemusic88 said:


> How do you guys deal with these wireless buds that have press control button? Each time I press the buds to increase volume or switch tracks, it does get stuffed deepr into my ear canals and I find this annoying. The Mpows is a let down for me on this aspect. I wonder if this is the case with just about all other buds with press controls.
> 
> I got the Tronsmart spunky beats and they have been great(fit & ease of controls).I prefer the sound quality on the Mpow T5s though. Both are equally bassy with nice mids and highs but the T5s have that tad bit of overall clarity. Not for critical listening but will do for a workout.
> 
> Anyone tried the Bomaker Sifi?


AirPods Pro utilizes stem squeeze button so that you don't have to do that.  Although I haven't tried myself, the new Jabra 75t has easier pressed buttons. So maybe you don't have to press too hard.

A thought I had was, if they can just have a tap touch control with AirPods Pro control scheme would be good.  Long touch for transparency mode, etc..  So, Jabra 75t fit and formfactor with touch control scheme like Apple's without the stem.


----------



## wksoh

d3myz said:


> Ok, Tranya Rimor First impressions.
> 
> They sound pretty dang good, but I personally like the tuning of the B530 more and it's a toss up with the T5, some songs I thought the T5 killed, other songs the Rimor sounded better, every song the B530 soundest best. BUT....
> 
> ...



Fantastic review. Instead of just describing clear treble and bass ..... I love it when you speak about Tonality describing guitars, snare drums sounding thinner and such !  This is really what an audiophile should look for in my opnion...
Please keep this coming....


----------



## Luchyres

wksoh said:


> Fantastic review. Instead of just describing clear treble and bass ..... I love it when you speak about Tonality describing guitars, snare drums sounding thinner and such !  This is really what an audiophile should look for in my opnion...
> Please keep this coming....



Ooh yes, talk timbre to us baby...


----------



## webvan

Rtings review of the 75t : https://www.rtings.com/headphones/reviews/jabra/elite-75t-truly-wireless
They're not too impressed, mention they're bass heavy but also that they have worse passive isolation than the 65ts.

@hifi80sman - now that you have L2Ps that no longer have the hissing problem, do you still feel there's not enough difference to justify the price difference with the L2s ($40 discount excluded) ? I wasn't going to try them given their "sonyesque" form factor but with all the stellar reviews I'm tempted


----------



## hifi80sman

webvan said:


> Rtings review of the 75t : https://www.rtings.com/headphones/reviews/jabra/elite-75t-truly-wireless
> They're not too impressed, mention they're bass heavy but also that they have worse passive isolation than the 65ts.


WOW, it looks like Rtings' measurements of the 75t are quite different than the 65t.






webvan said:


> @hifi80sman - now that you have L2Ps that no longer have the hissing problem, do you still feel there's not enough difference to justify the price difference with the L2s ($40 discount excluded) ? I wasn't going to try them given their "sonyesque" form factor but with all the stellar reviews I'm tempted


That's a tough call.  If you like clarity and precision instruments, then the L2P is the way to go.  If you enjoy more low end, then added detail is probably not worth it.  Bass is a litter bigger on the L2 and highs are still very good, but the L2P is more refined in its bass delivery (less boomy, firmer) and doesn't have the slight grain in the highs like the L2.

If you have the money to spend, may as well go for the L2P.  If you're strapped for cash, then the L2 are a good approximation of the L2P.


----------



## jlo mein

facethemusic88 said:


> How do you guys deal with these wireless buds that have press control button? Each time I press the buds to increase volume or switch tracks, it does get stuffed deepr into my ear canals and I find this annoying. The Mpows is a let down for me on this aspect. I wonder if this is the case with just about all other buds with press controls.



Grab the earbud in a pinch between your thumb and finger, using your finger to support the earbud from behind while pressing the button.


----------



## HiFlight

webvan said:


> Rtings review of the 75t : https://www.rtings.com/headphones/reviews/jabra/elite-75t-truly-wireless
> They're not too impressed, mention they're bass heavy but also that they have worse passive isolation than the 65ts.
> 
> @hifi80sman - now that you have L2Ps that no longer have the hissing problem, do you still feel there's not enough difference to justify the price difference with the L2s ($40 discount excluded) ? I wasn't going to try them given their "sonyesque" form factor but with all the stellar reviews I'm tempted





webvan said:


> Rtings review of the 75t : https://www.rtings.com/headphones/reviews/jabra/elite-75t-truly-wireless
> They're not too impressed, mention they're bass heavy but also that they have worse passive isolation than the 65ts.
> 
> @hifi80sman - now that you have L2Ps that no longer have the hissing problem, do you still feel there's not enough difference to justify the price difference with the L2s ($40 discount excluded) ? I wasn't going to try them given their "sonyesque" form factor but with all the stellar reviews I'm tempted


Yes, the OOTB the 75t is a bassheads dream, but is easily set to ones desired preference via the app.  True, there is less passive reduction than the 65t as it fills the entire concha  whereas the 75t fills about half.  With the proper seal, this is a none-issue while listening at normal levels.


----------



## howdy

Almost.... really close to buying the L2P had it in the cart all filled out and CC info in. My inner thoughts where, enjoy what you have and the Wife saying, really, another headphone. I decided to wait. All these great reviews. Ill wait tell the honeymoon phase is over and see if it's still that great.
I'm waiting for the Bose to come out with there new one. Also, I was considering getting some wireless device for my CIEMs as they are not getting any use lately.


----------



## howdy

facethemusic88 said:


> How do you guys deal with these wireless buds that have press control button? Each time I press the buds to increase volume or switch tracks, it does get stuffed deepr into my ear canals and I find this annoying. The Mpows is a let down for me on this aspect. I wonder if this is the case with just about all other buds with press controls.
> 
> I got the Tronsmart spunky beats and they have been great(fit & ease of controls).I prefer the sound quality on the Mpow T5s though. Both are equally bassy with nice mids and highs but the T5s have that tad bit of overall clarity. Not for critical listening but will do for a workout.
> 
> Anyone tried the Bomaker Sifi?


You should check out the Power Beats Pro. The volume button is positioned on top so you press down not in. 
As of lately, these are my go too's. Love the sound, they are very comfortable and 9 hours of use on a single change. I'm surprised these don't get any attention on this thread.


----------



## Mouseman

howdy said:


> You should check out the Power Beats Pro. The volume button is positioned on top so you press down not in.
> As of lately, these are my go too's. Love the sound, they are very comfortable and 9 hours of use on a single change. I'm surprised these don't get any attention on this thread.


The L2Ps also have their buttons on top, so no jamming them into your head to change the tracks.


----------



## hifi80sman

howdy said:


> Almost.... really close to buying the L2P had it in the cart all filled out and CC info in. My inner thoughts where, enjoy what you have and the Wife saying, really, another headphone. I decided to wait. All these great reviews. Ill wait tell the honeymoon phase is over and see if it's still that great.
> I'm waiting for the Bose to come out with there new one. Also, I was considering getting some wireless device for my CIEMs as they are not getting any use lately.


Think about it.  How abnormal is it *really *if all of us here can't stop buying more audio gear?  Does music not speak to the soul?  Is audio equipment not the gateway to the soul?  If you prick me, do I not bleed?  If Cinderella's shoe fit perfectly, why did it fall off?

Do it.


----------



## wksoh

Luchyres said:


> Ooh yes, talk timbre to us baby...


Yes yes timbre indeed!!


----------



## tma6

howdy said:


> Almost.... really close to buying the L2P had it in the cart all filled out and CC info in. My inner thoughts where, enjoy what you have and the Wife saying, really, another headphone. I decided to wait. All these great reviews. Ill wait tell the honeymoon phase is over and see if it's still that great.
> I'm waiting for the Bose to come out with there new one. Also, I was considering getting some wireless device for my CIEMs as they are not getting any use lately.



Not gonna tell you what to do wit your money. All I can say is that you will not regret it one bit.


----------



## hedphonz

Sennheiser momentum or Anker liberty pro 2 ?
I'm wanting to go true wireless iem for exercise purposes only and happy to accept some loss of SQ.

I like good strong bass and don't like sibilant trebles

Would you guys say I was on the right track with either of the momentum or liberty pros ? Or am I missing some important others.
Hope it's ok to post a recommendation request here .

Cheers


----------



## d3myz

hifi80sman said:


> Think about it.  How abnormal is it *really *if all of us here can't stop buying more audio gear?  Does music not speak to the soul?  Is audio equipment not the gateway to the soul?  If you prick me, do I not bleed?  If Cinderella's shoe fit perfectly, why did it fall off?
> 
> Do it.


You are the devil himself.  but you have a point. That's why YOU should buy the Boltune's I showed you. I need a comparison done with someone who owns some really high end BT cans. What did you say you have again? I know you just got two pair of B&W's and I think you said you own the Sony's? the Bose? Anyways, just give them a trial run and return them if you don't like them.  If it's still a no go, DM me and i'll send you my pair. 



howdy said:


> Almost.... really close to buying the L2P had it in the cart all filled out and CC info in. My inner thoughts where, enjoy what you have and the Wife saying, really, another headphone. I decided to wait. All these great reviews. Ill wait tell the honeymoon phase is over and see if it's still that great.
> I'm waiting for the Bose to come out with there new one. Also, I was considering getting some wireless device for my CIEMs as they are not getting any use lately.


 I 2nd @hifi80's man. Buy the L2pro. They are phenomenal, but I honestly think they have a LOT of bass. not too much but still a lot on the flat and signature sound setting. The clarity of the highs and mids is just pristine like Caribbean beach water.


----------



## d3myz

I need some tribal wisdom. I went to buy the Sony WF-1000XM3 today at the army exchange, they were $179 no tax. And..... they only had silver, no thanks. So I'm either going to buy a renewed model from amazon for $150, no box all the accessories and add the 3-year asurion warranty ($172 total). or on ebay for $185 + the 2 year square trade warranty for $216. Thoughts? Any chance these will go on sale for Black Friday?


----------



## d3myz

wksoh said:


> Fantastic review. Instead of just describing clear treble and bass ..... I love it when you speak about Tonality describing guitars, snare drums sounding thinner and such !  This is really what an audiophile should look for in my opnion...
> Please keep this coming....


Thanks, man. I suck at reviewing so i'll keep that in mind. I can def. describe the sound of instruments better then technical jargon.


----------



## duo8

d3myz said:


> I need some tribal wisdom. I went to buy the Sony WF-1000XM3 today at the army exchange, they were $179 no tax. And..... they only had silver, no thanks. So I'm either going to buy a renewed model from amazon for $150, no box all the accessories and add the 3-year asurion warranty ($172 total). or on ebay for $185 + the 2 year square trade warranty for $216. Thoughts? Any chance these will go on sale for Black Friday?


There's a guy the trading forums selling black sealed units for $160. See if he has any left.


----------



## wksoh (Nov 22, 2019)

d3myz said:


> Thanks, man. I suck at reviewing so i'll keep that in mind. I can def. describe the sound of instruments better then technical jargon.


I just received the Mpow M5 and compared with my Bose 700. Wow, just wow... I cannot believe this China brand mpow m5 can compete with the expensive Bose 700. In fact, I find the Bose 700 sound signature is more V shaped. Bose 700 does sound more spatial with some heavier base. I thought tonality, I prefer the Mpow m5. I do not find the highs of the M5 rolled off but understand some folks do. The guitars, Snare drum, rim shots are accurate and a tad less tinny than the Bose 700.
Can't imagine how good the L2Pro is with the good feedback here.
Receiving the SSK bt03 and tronsmart spunky beat next.


----------



## tma6

hedphonz said:


> Sennheiser momentum or Anker liberty pro 2 ?
> I'm wanting to go true wireless iem for exercise purposes only and happy to accept some loss of SQ.
> 
> I like good strong bass and don't like sibilant trebles
> ...



How much does price factor in? I would say that both the MTW and the L2Ps fit your desired sound signature. Neither are sibilant, though the MTWs are slightly more refined sounding with a smoother overall signature. I'd say the bass on the L2Ps is more resonating and a bit more powerful, but not quite as accurate as the MTWs. The mids and highs on the L2Ps are comparable to the MTWs though, and for half the price, with much better battery life and call quality I would def go L2Ps. If you want a cheaper option, the Sabbat E12 Ultra have great bass, but they're not my favorite tonally.


----------



## dweaver (Nov 23, 2019)

hedphonz said:


> Sennheiser momentum or Anker liberty pro 2 ?
> I'm wanting to go true wireless iem for exercise purposes only and happy to accept some loss of SQ.
> 
> I like good strong bass and don't like sibilant trebles
> ...


I own both and I personally like the L2P a bit more sonically. But the MTW is also good, just in a more dialed back way. In regards to which is the better value the L2P slays the MTW since it benefits from latest technology and is much more affordable. If the MTW was selling for the same price the pass through feature might make them a more compelling option so long as you could live with less than 1/2 the battery and a case that drains of power in less than 3 days when the IEM is stored inside the case.


----------



## hifi80sman

d3myz said:


> You are the devil himself.  but you have a point. That's why YOU should buy the Boltune's I showed you. I need a comparison done with someone who owns some really high end BT cans. What did you say you have again? I know you just got two pair of B&W's and I think you said you own the Sony's? the Bose? Anyways, just give them a trial run and return them if you don't like them.  If it's still a no go, DM me and i'll send you my pair.
> 
> I 2nd @hifi80's man. Buy the L2pro. They are phenomenal, but I honestly think they have a LOT of bass. not too much but still a lot on the flat and signature sound setting. The clarity of the highs and mids is just pristine like Caribbean beach water.


I’ll think about it.  . I actually just picked up the Master & Dynamic MW60 now that they’re down to $300, so I’ve been burning those in.  I may pick those up and see how they compare.


----------



## FYLegend

Has anyone got the Tronsmart Onyx Neo yet? Not sure if it's higher tier than the Spunky Beat. Also interested in the MPOW M8 - one seller has it listed on Amazon.ca for 30$ fullfilled by Amazon!


----------



## albau

Mouseman said:


> The L2Ps also have their buttons on top, so no jamming them into your head to change the tracks.


To me MW07 always had the best control scheme of them all with buttons on the top edge (2 on the left, 1 on the right). Never saw TWS where touch controls would work well for me.


----------



## d3myz

wksoh said:


> I just received the Mpow M5 and compared with my Bose 700. Wow, just wow... I cannot believe this China brand mpow m5 can compete with the expensive Bose 700. In fact, I find the Bose 700 sound signature is more V shaped. Bose 700 does sound more spatial with some heavier base. I thought tonality, I prefer the Mpow m5. I do not find the highs of the M5 rolled off but understand some folks do. The guitars, Snare drum, rim shots are accurate and a tad less tinny than the Bose 700.
> Can't imagine how good the L2Pro is with the good feedback here.
> Receiving the SSK bt03 and tronsmart spunky beat next.



i’d have to say the M5/T5, the SSK BT03/ Anbes 359, the Tranya B530, the Tranya T3 and the EarFun free are my favorite inexpensive TWS’. In my opinion the liberty 2 Pro is on another level entirely. In fact they are the most expensive true wireless earbuds I own for now. I’ve kind of prided myself on never spending more than 100 bucks on a set. After my experience with the L2pro, @hifi80sman’s and the rest of this threads borderline malevolent encouragement, i’ve convinced myself I need the Sonys.  God help my pocketbook.


----------



## d3myz (Nov 23, 2019)

FYLegend said:


> Has anyone got the Tronsmart Onyx Neo yet? Not sure if it's higher tier than the Spunky Beat. Also interested in the MPOW M8 - one seller has it listed on Amazon.ca for 30$ fullfilled by Amazon!


I wasn’t able to find a link for the M8 on Amazon US only on Alibaba. They look pretty interesting I tried the M20 and they were not great.


----------



## d3myz

duo8 said:


> There's a guy the trading forums selling black sealed units for $160. See if he has any left.


Thanks, I’ll check it out!


----------



## d3myz

Ok, i’ve never bought anything off head-fi before, so I’m quite skeptical. Does this look like a legit seller? https://www.head-fi.org/threads/sony-wf-1000xm3-brand-new-sealed.919592/ The guy doesn’t look like he has much activity on here.


----------



## voicemaster

Been listening to fiil t1x and I can say it is the best sounding tws in my


d3myz said:


> i’d have to say the M5/T5, the SSK BT03/ Anbes 359, the Tranya B530, the Tranya T3 and the EarFun free are my favorite inexpensive TWS’. In my opinion the liberty 2 Pro is on another level entirely. In fact they are the most expensive true wireless earbuds I own for now. I’ve kind of prided myself on never spending more than 100 bucks on a set. After my experience with the L2pro, @hifi80sman’s and the rest of this threads borderline malevolent encouragement, i’ve convinced myself I need the Sonys.  God help my pocketbook.


You should try fiil t1x. Imho it is better than mpow m5 and tranya b530.


----------



## d3myz (Nov 23, 2019)

voicemaster said:


> Been listening to fiil t1x and I can say it is the best sounding tws in my
> 
> You should try fiil t1x. Imho it is better than mpow m5 and tranya b530.


The only place I can find it is on gearbest. How does it compare to the liberty 2 pro, the Tevi or the ssk?
Scratch that, I found it on Amazon but it wasn’t listed under T1X. How’s the active noise canceling?


----------



## voicemaster

d3myz said:


> The only place I can find it is on gearbest. How does it compare to the liberty 2 pro, the Tevi or the ssk?
> Scratch that, I found it on Amazon but it wasn’t listed under T1X. How’s the active noise canceling?


Don't think it has anc tho. It most likely acrive noise cancelling for phone call, but the fit contribute alot to the seal so it blocked outside noise better than mpow m5. As for comparing to l2p, tevi and ssk, I can't comment on it as I don't have any of them. But imho it best mpow m5 and b530. The sound is more similar to b530 but the bass is less, more detailed and tighter. The high is definitely more extended than both m5 and b530 as I can hear cymbals and hi-hat better on t1x. Soundstage also bigger than m5 and b530. For connection, it will connect right away like galaxy buds to your phone unlike m5 where you need to go to bluetooth setting and connect manually everytime. Phone call is also good, I just called my wife using whatsapp (international call) while doing my laundry in laundromat and she said my voice is clear with all those machine running.


----------



## ngd3

d3myz said:


> Ok, i’ve never bought anything off head-fi before, so I’m quite skeptical. Does this look like a legit seller? https://www.head-fi.org/threads/sony-wf-1000xm3-brand-new-sealed.919592/ The guy doesn’t look like he has much activity on here.



Pretty sure he's legit. I bought one and he sent me a pic of the package with my address and tracking number same morning. Good deal w/o tax

You can also see trader history if you click into a profile


----------



## wksoh (Nov 23, 2019)

d3myz said:


> i’d have to say the M5/T5, the SSK BT03/ Anbes 359, the Tranya B530, the Tranya T3 and the EarFun free are my favorite inexpensive TWS’. In my opinion the liberty 2 Pro is on another level entirely. In fact they are the most expensive true wireless earbuds I own for now. I’ve kind of prided myself on never spending more than 100 bucks on a set. After my experience with the L2pro, @hifi80sman’s and the rest of this threads borderline malevolent encouragement, i’ve convinced myself I need the Sonys.  God help my pocketbook.


Wow... .. My Ignorance is bliss. But looks likes like I'm drawn to your footsteps


----------



## hedphonz

dweaver said:


> I own both and I personally like the L2P a bit more sonically. But the MTW is also good, just in a more dialed back way. In regards to which is the better value the L2P slays the MTW since is benefits from latest technology and is much more affordable. If the MTW was selling for the same price the pass through feature might make them a more compelling option so long as you could live with less than 1/2 the battery and a case that drains of power in less than 3 days when the IEM is stored inside the case.


Thanks mate, Ali Express has a black Friday sale next week on the Ankers so will go for them


----------



## San Man

hedphonz said:


> Thanks mate, Ali Express has a black Friday sale next week on the Ankers so will go for them



If you go to soundcore.com, the L2P is currently 20% off ($30.00).   It also let me use the $40 off coupon code posted earlier in this thread.  That made the total price (with tax) come out to $83.59.    I doubt the BF sale price is less than that, so you may not want to wait.


----------



## georgelai57

San Man said:


> If you go to soundcore.com, the L2P is currently 20% off ($30.00).   It also let me use the $40 off coupon code posted earlier in this thread.  That made the total price (with tax) come out to $83.59.    I doubt the BF sale price is less than that, so you may not want to wait.


Which is the $40 coupon code? Thanks


----------



## d3myz

georgelai57 said:


> Which is the $40 coupon code? Thanks


JERRYL2P


----------



## georgelai57

d3myz said:


> JERRYL2P


Thank you. Cheers.


----------



## d3myz

georgelai57 said:


> Thank you. Cheers.


I’m such a lush. I just bought another pair.


----------



## voicemaster

Oh man, the more I listen to t1x, the more I noticed how much details this tws can produce while being very musical. Reminds me of my BLON bl03 (they actually sounds kinda similar imho). And as a bonus, the connection is the best from my other tws and bt20s.


----------



## georgelai57

d3myz said:


> I’m such a lush. I just bought another pair.


No harm having a spare. Or two.


----------



## d3myz (Nov 23, 2019)

voicemaster said:


> Oh man, the more I listen to t1x, the more I noticed how much details this tws can produce while being very musical. Reminds me of my BLON bl03 (they actually sounds kinda similar imho). And as a bonus, the connection is the best from my other tws and bt20s.


You should pick up the L2pro. It’s $70 off right now on Anker’s site. I just paid $85. My first pair I got on their early bird launch deal for $100. I have the blon’s as well, it01 and the Tin T2 and I personally like the L2Pro more. I’m not using them with the bt20s, just a silver BT 4.2 Aptx cable I got off Penon.


----------



## voicemaster

d3myz said:


> You should pick up the L2pro. It’s $70 off right now on Anker’s site. I just paid $85. My first pair I got on their early bird launch deal for $100. I have the blon’s as well, it01 and the Tin T2 and I personally like the L2Pro more. I’m not using them with the bt20s, just a silver BT 4.2 Aptx cable I got off Penon.


Problem is I need to save money for my upcoming vacation.


----------



## Caipirina

hifi80sman said:


> Think about it.  How abnormal is it *really *if all of us here can't stop buying more audio gear?  Does music not speak to the soul?  Is audio equipment not the gateway to the soul?  If you prick me, do I not bleed?  If Cinderella's shoe fit perfectly, why did it fall off?
> 
> Do it.


No time for thinking. Need to keep browsing AliX, random reviews and of course: headfi.


----------



## d3myz

voicemaster said:


> Problem is I need to save money for my upcoming vacation.


That’s what credit cards and PayPal SmartConnect are for


----------



## mercules

Link? cant see them on discount? Thanks


----------



## mercules

Both sites show as $149 dollars


----------



## georgelai57

The moment you Add To Cart it shows $119.99, then just before checkout you add the promo code JERRYL2P and it drops another $40 off


----------



## mercules

Thanks, just seen it shame its US only you guys are lucky no discount on UK site  and US site no shipping to UK


----------



## voicemaster

d3myz said:


> That’s what credit cards and PayPal SmartConnect are for


In only 6 months


----------



## webvan

hifi80sman said:


> WOW, it looks like Rtings' measurements of the 75t are quite different than the 65t.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Thanks, I really enjoy the clarity of the Echo Buds' BA driver and find it hard to go back to DDs now, well it's ok with the X12 for running or with the M5 for bike riding but for more "serious" listening it feels like a downgrade. It's too bad Soundcore US won't ship to Europe and that they have zero discounts over here vers $70 in the US !.


----------



## georgelai57

mercules said:


> Thanks, just seen it shame its US only you guys are lucky no discount on UK site  and US site no shipping to UK


I’m not in the US but use a website that receives those products that don’t ship outside the US and that then ships them to me. There are many of such sites. I use one called HopShopGo.


----------



## mercules

georgelai57 said:


> I’m not in the US but use a website that receives those products that don’t ship outside the US and that then ships them to me. There are many of such sites. I use one called HopShopGo.



Cool looks like a good idea even with extra shipping its still half UK price


----------



## gibletzor (Nov 23, 2019)

Are there any coupon codes for the regular Liberty 2?  They're on sale for $79 on the soundcore site without one.

Edit:  Ya'll are enablers, btw....   lol


----------



## Quicky32

Order placed for my first TWS....the L2P deal is too good to pass up.  It was between them, the Lypertek Tevi, Aukey T10, and 1 more Stylish.


----------



## facethemusic88

Guys, with all the talk about the Liberty 2 pros and the sweet discount, should i go for it if i already have the mpow t5 and tronsmart spunky beats? Its for the gym and I don't need audiophile level sound quality as I have another set of gear for that. Good connectivity and reasonably good sound to get through the workouts would be fine.


----------



## mercules

Quicky32 said:


> Order placed for my first TWS....the L2P deal is too good to pass up.  It was between them, the Lypertek Tevi, Aukey T10, and 1 more Stylish.



Me too! been using the T5 but want something better.  I've just ordered from US L2P via Planet exp works out at approx £97 GBP including expected UK customs saving me £53 versus ordering from UK. Haha thanks for the thread contributions guys appreciated!


----------



## dwil

Are chifi clones of the Airpods Pro available in matte black yet? Don't care about ANC, just want the small qi charging case and a comfortable 1:1 clone of the earpiece.


----------



## SilverEars (Nov 23, 2019)

When using AirPods Pro with ANC at the gym, I realized how important it is to cancel out background noise to hear the the sound clearly though the earphones.  You can have some good sounding TW at the gym with seal, but still the sound is masked without ANC(noise isolation isn't all that effective).  So, ANC causes increase in fidelity and comparatively causes better SQ in ambient noise environments.

Reducing noise increases fidelity, and this is part of the reason why custom iems work well.  I've had custom iems as well that isolates extremely well, and low frequency noise still isn't effectively reduced to the level of ANC.  I'd rather take AirPods Pro over customs for convenience.  No wires, reduces noise, simpler to take off and put on.


----------



## falang (Nov 23, 2019)

Got the Liberty Pro 2 the other day, and after a few listening sessions, I have noticed a few issues:

1. Volume output is much lower than my Anbes.  I have to set it to 80% to match Anbes at 50 or 60%.
2. Finding it quite difficult to get a good seal (which may explain my volume issue).

I've tried all of the wings and a few of the tips, but still haven't found the right match for me.  Anyone else struggle with these issues?  This is on a OnePlus 7 Pro phone btw.


----------



## onree (Nov 23, 2019)

facethemusic88 said:


> Guys, with all the talk about the Liberty 2 pros and the sweet discount, should i go for it if i already have the mpow t5 and tronsmart spunky beats? Its for the gym and I don't need audiophile level sound quality as I have another set of gear for that. Good connectivity and reasonably good sound to get through the workouts would be fine.



Have same question. How good are these for sweaty workouts? It's either L2P or Mpow T5 for me, and even with the amazing deal right now, the Mpow T5 are like half the price (and IPX7).


----------



## webvan (Nov 23, 2019)

Don't have the L2Ps but while I like the M5/T5s for general use they don't hold that well when you're active and even less when you're sweaty. For that type of use you really need "wings" in my experience so that the seal doesn't break regularly with the annoying requirement to have to push them back in and irritate your ears in the process. When you're not active just remove the wings if you "feel" them  You can do that with the Echo Buds for instance.



HiFlight said:


> Yes, the OOTB the 75t is a bassheads dream, but is easily set to ones desired preference via the app.  True, there is less passive reduction than the 65t as it fills the entire concha  whereas the 75t fills about half.  With the proper seal, this is a none-issue while listening at normal levels.



Thanks for the info, I hadn't realized they had reduced the internal size too, I thought it was only the mic "tip" on the outside. That's not good news as it will indeed reduce isolation and likely its ability to "stay in place" when being active and sweaty. I really don't get the point of making the smallest possible TWE apart from the "challenge" and "hype "aspect...


----------



## cwill

georgelai57 said:


> The moment you Add To Cart it shows $119.99, then just before checkout you add the promo code JERRYL2P and it drops another $40 off


Been waiting for something to push me over the edge between these and the MW07 Go. This did it. You guys are such a bad influence.


----------



## Caipirina

dwil said:


> Are chifi clones of the Airpods Pro available in matte black yet? Don't care about ANC, just want the small qi charging case and a comfortable 1:1 clone of the earpiece.


Tons of white ones, but have not seen color variants yet ... just a question of time, but I guess they are betting all their horses for now on the buyers who want the thing that looks exactly like the real thing ... 

Pastel colors (and yes, black) will show up soon enough when a certain saturation point is met (and price dwindles to 20$)


----------



## RobinFood

Spent a good hour at the earphone store today trying the recent sets of true wireless earphones.

I tried the new Sony noise canceling first, and thought they sounded great. I was not impressed with the fit and the noise cancelling though. I had a hard time getting the seamless fit I got to expect from true wireless earphones on the demo unit they had. It was a lot of fiddling, and I felt like I didn't have the best seal. The ANC was working and I could tell, but it was nowhere near as good as what I am used to with over-ear sets or the Bose QC20 in the loud store. It still doesn't hold a candle to my ER4XRs with small comply tips, which seem to erase more sound, especially the sound of people talking or music playing in the background.

I tried the Klipsche set, and was expecting to love it, since I really enjoy the comfort of the X series, but I didn't. The sound is decent, top of the line for true wireless, but the fit was not good. The oval ear tips were not comfortable with all that weight pulling down on them. The stems were too big and the buds themselves were kind of floating. The X series are better and probably take up less space stored than the huge case they went with.

The Noble Falcons were great. The case is a little flatter than the Sabbat case. The fit was comfortable. Sound was also top class, everything sounded very good, with excellent imaging.

The best set I tried though was the Galaxy Buds. The case was the smallest, the easiest to carry, the fit was perfect, and the sound hit all the sweet spots. The best balance of sound and features. They were super comfortable too.

Overall, I didn't hear anything that warranted me to replace my Nuarls. I felt like the Falcons and the Galaxy buds were about the same level as far as audio quality goes, imaging and soundstage wise, but with less heavy sub-bass.

The only fault I have with the Nuarls is the ever so small white noise in really quiet settings at home, but that is something I can't notice in a noisy store.

I though I would love noise cancelling, but it somehow did not feel as magical as when I tried the QC20 or the QC35 for the first time. Maybe if I used it on the train or with the traffic my opinion would change, but I didn't feel like I needed it at the level.


----------



## SilverEars (Nov 23, 2019)

RobinFood said:


> Spent a good hour at the earphone store today trying the recent sets of true wireless earphones.
> 
> I tried the new Sony noise canceling first, and thought they sounded great. I was not impressed with the fit and the noise cancelling though. I had a hard time getting the seamless fit I got to expect from true wireless earphones on the demo unit they had. It was a lot of fiddling, and I felt like I didn't have the best seal. The ANC was working and I could tell, but it was nowhere near as good as what I am used to with over-ear sets or the Bose QC20 in the loud store. It still doesn't hold a candle to my ER4XRs with small comply tips, which seem to erase more sound, especially the sound of people talking or music playing in the background.
> 
> ...


I did a comparison of AirPods Pro with QC20 for ANC in the train and noisy food courts, and AirPods Pro came up top.  I have a different QC20 unit currently than before, and wondering if there are possible unit variations of ANC performance of the QC20?

It's too bad because I want QC20 to be better due to the log battery life of 16 whopping hrs ANC, but it's wired, not true wireless.  With the AirPods Pro, I don't like the limit of 4.5hrs with ANC on, as there maybe cases I need a longer duration of usage.  As for gym usage, more than enough.

In general, I think TW coming with charging cases help a lot since there arn't many scenarios you will be listening beyond 4.5 hrs without putting it in the case, charging.


----------



## Mouseman

d3myz said:


> I’m such a lush. I just bought another pair.


You are one sick puppy....
For that price, I might pick one up, too. My kid knocked the case off the counter this morning, and I was like "nooooooooo!"


----------



## Jules7

webvan said:


> Yes they lack "crispness" and the same "punch" in the mids and highs. I think they've been hyped a bit too much on here...I don't find myself using them much anymore now that I have the much better, much more feature rich (and more expensive) Amazon Echo Buds !


Yeah I guess Music Genres also matters as I listen to stuffs from Steely Dan, Fleetwood Mac, EW&F, Toto and also some Jazz. So i appreciate a little more highs.
On a side note, I'm waiting for the Aliexpress Black friday sales to grab the L2P. Hope I'm lucky to get a version 3 or one without the infamous hiss!


----------



## Jules7

tma6 said:


> Alright guys, here is my review of the Anker Soundcore Liberty 2 Pros after about 5 days of use:
> 
> As per usual, going to go into everything in detail, but I can say right off the bat that the Liberty 2 Pros to me are clearly among the best TWS out there on the market right now. For $150 (though you can knock them down to about $119 on Amazon right now with the promo code JERRYL2P), I really think this is some of the best sound you can get on TWS at the moment. While they're on the bigger side in terms of form factor, and have a very slight hiss in the background (which is barely noticeable for the most part), the sound quality, comfort, stable connectivity, good battery life, and even great phone call quality more than make up for these slight deficiencies.
> 
> ...



Thanks for the very detailed review of L2P! I have now decided to get it over the LA 2. 
Have you tried watching videos (Youtube, netflix etc) with this on your iphone? Do they lag?


----------



## tma6 (Nov 23, 2019)

Jules7 said:


> Thanks for the very detailed review of L2P! I have now decided to get it over the LA 2.
> Have you tried watching videos (Youtube, netflix etc) with this on your iphone? Do they lag?



Yup! No lag at all. Also you can get it for $87 on their website rn with the code JERRYL2P. Great deal, considering that imo they're worth it for $150.


----------



## ld100

voicemaster said:


> In only 6 months



What do you think about your Sabbat's comparing to other ones?


----------



## jasaero

falang said:


> Got the Liberty Pro 2 the other day, and after a few listening sessions, I have noticed a few issues:
> 
> 1. Volume output is much lower than my Anbes.  I have to set it to 80% to match Anbes at 50 or 60%.
> 2. Finding it quite difficult to get a good seal (which may explain my volume issue).
> ...



For volume make sure in the app you have set so you can do the volume control on the headset and max it out if you use your phone.  It seems to have separate on headset volume from the phone volume.  So it will get plenty loud if both are at max...but then like Acoustic and some of the other EQ settings also have even further gain.  So I find you can actually get clipping from mismatched gain and volumes and such.  But should get plenty loud once you have messed with the onheadset volume control you can enable with the app.


----------



## d3myz

voicemaster said:


> In only 6 months


That’s a good start.


----------



## d3myz

Big ups to @San Man for posting the L2Pro deal. Anker should give you a free pair! You probably helped sell 5 on this thread already! . Also I pulled the trigger on the Sony WF–1000XM3 from a guy in the trade/sell forums for $160 PP fee and shipped. It’s going to be a good week.


----------



## voicemaster

ld100 said:


> What do you think about your Sabbat's comparing to other ones?


They are okay, but need quite heavy EQing for them to sound to my liking. Even with that, the e12u can't beat mpow t5 and fiil t1x in sound imho.


----------



## jlo mein (Nov 23, 2019)

Quicky32 said:


> Order placed for my first TWS....the L2P deal is too good to pass up.





mercules said:


> I've just ordered from US L2P





cwill said:


> Been waiting for something to push me over the edge between these and the MW07 Go. This did it.





Jules7 said:


> Thanks for the very detailed review of L2P! I have now decided to get it over the LA 2.



Anyone receive an estimated delivery date of the L2P from the Soundcore webstore?  I'm in the US this week and hope I can receive them at my hotel before Black Friday.


----------



## X-Nemesis

Is there any way to get in on that L2pro deal and have them ship to Canada?  Canada is like the island of misfit toys.


----------



## georgelai57

X-Nemesis said:


> Is there any way to get in on that L2pro deal and have them ship to Canada?  Canada is like the island of misfit toys.


See post #15985


----------



## HiFlight

webvan said:


> Don't have the L2Ps but while I like the M5/T5s for general use they don't hold that well when you're active and even less when you're sweaty. For that type of use you really need "wings" in my experience so that the seal doesn't break regularly with the annoying requirement to have to push them back in and irritate your ears in the process. When you're not active just remove the wings if you "feel" them  You can do that with the Echo Buds for instance.
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for the info, I hadn't realized they had reduced the internal size too, I thought it was only the mic "tip" on the outside. That's not good news as it will indeed reduce isolation and likely its ability to "stay in place" when being active and sweaty. I really don't get the point of making the smallest possible TWE apart from the "challenge" and "hype "aspect...


With the optimum tips, my 75t is as secure in my ear as my 65t and is less fiddly to get a satisfactory fit and seal.


----------



## hifi80sman

d3myz said:


> Ok, i’ve never bought anything off head-fi before, so I’m quite skeptical. Does this look like a legit seller? https://www.head-fi.org/threads/sony-wf-1000xm3-brand-new-sealed.919592/ The guy doesn’t look like he has much activity on here.


Let us know if it’s legit.  Looks like that box “fell out” of the truck!  LOL!


----------



## hifi80sman

voicemaster said:


> In only 6 months


You have some catching up to do.


----------



## Mouseman

X-Nemesis said:


> Is there any way to get in on that L2pro deal and have them ship to Canada?  Canada is like the island of misfit toys.


Oh, come on. I can see it across the river and I've never noticed any spotted elephants or trains with square wheels. Just lots of poutine and Molson!


----------



## Quicky32

jlo mein said:


> Anyone receive an estimated delivery date of the L2P from the Soundcore webstore?  I'm in the US this week and hope I can receive them at my hotel before Black Friday.



I haven't received anything other than a PayPal email.


----------



## dweaver

As a fellow Canadian, seeing all these great deals for the US sucks lol. But I did get my pair for $20 off to $180cad versus 200 and happy to at least get some savings.

Were they worth the price?
.
.
.
Absolutely!!!


----------



## San Man

d3myz said:


> Big ups to @San Man for posting the L2Pro deal. Anker should give you a free pair! You probably helped sell 5 on this thread already! . Also I pulled the trigger on the Sony WF–1000XM3 from a guy in the trade/sell forums for $160 PP fee and shipped. It’s going to be a good week.



You're all very welcome.



jlo mein said:


> Anyone receive an estimated delivery date of the L2P from the Soundcore webstore?  I'm in the US this week and hope I can receive them at my hotel before Black Friday.



I got a shipping email the same day, and the soundcore website says "in transit, arriving on time."  No tracking number though.


----------



## X-Nemesis

georgelai57 said:


> See post #15985



Thanks for that lead.


----------



## d3myz

hifi80sman said:


> Let us know if it’s legit.  Looks like that box “fell out” of the truck!  LOL!


Ha ha, my thoughts exactly. But he responded at 2 AM last night. I paid him and this morning I had a bunch of photos with the box and an envelope addressed to me and a paid tracking number to my address. So I’m feeling pretty good about it


----------



## d3myz

jlo mein said:


> Anyone receive an estimated delivery date of the L2P from the Soundcore webstore?  I'm in the US this week and hope I can receive them at my hotel before Black Friday.


I received an email from Anker as well. The status of my order is still processing though I ordered it 2 AM last night Mountain time


----------



## DigDub (Nov 24, 2019)

Redmi Airdots, my cheapest pair of TWS earbuds thus far. Pleasantly surprised by the sound quality. Treble resolution is not the greatest, but it is present. Mids are good, vocals sound very natural and guitars have a good crunch to it. Abundant amount of mid bass and the 7.2mm drivers deliver bass that can be heard and felt. Volume is lower than the other TWS buds I have, probably around 15% lesser according to my estimation. Connection strength is also weaker than my other buds, but stronger than the Creative Outlier Air. Overall amazing value for the money.


----------



## makimo2989

Greetings to all, I'd been a long time lurker here but only now I wish to post my 2 cents. Got into the TWS game via my first pair of Creative Outlier Air (solid connection, good bass, IMHO). Then my itchy fingers clicked and got a pair of Sabbat E12 Ultra (sounds marginally better than Creative Air, but lousy connection... seems to always disconnect (either right side - if left is master, and left side - if right is master) for a brief period for no other reason than when I move my head! Oh well...) 

Then after getting all the feedback that was posted, I ventured out during 11.11 sales and got a pair of Liberty 2 Pro from Aliexpress (after all discounts - $118). OMG, the L2P is the game changer for me. Everything from highs to lows are superior to both my previous pairs. And the Bluetooth connection is rock solid, never have I experienced any dropouts. And it's all thanks to all the feedback here, I salute you guys!

P.S. Bought a pair of Tronsmart Spunky Beat on a whim for $18 (during the 11.11 sales too), arriving next week, because, why not?  The cheapest and highly recommended by Scarbir, that has apt-X, QCC3020 and USB-C charging... 'nuff said


----------



## hedphonz

San Man said:


> If you go to soundcore.com, the L2P is currently 20% off ($30.00).   It also let me use the $40 off coupon code posted earlier in this thread.  That made the total price (with tax) come out to $83.59.    I doubt the BF sale price is less than that, so you may not want to wait.


I live in NZ and Ali is free shipping, US websites usually charge an arm to ship overseas but appreciate the heads-up


----------



## d3myz

Soooo... I reached out to Anker about my second pair of L2pros not receiving the newest firmware last week. They pushed the new firmware and I've had zero issues other then the gain is lower, but they advised there was another new version coming, when I asked for clarification, I got this e-mail. So, looks like I got a free pair of L2pros.  





Dear *Headphone Degenerate,*

Thank you for your email.

We now have a primary upgraded version of Liberty 2 Pro which has made some progress in the background noise issue. However, our product engineers found that the issue might still be noticeable with a sensitive hearing in this version so we are managing to get rid of it in the second upgraded version which will be available in 2-3 weeks.

Therefore I would like to arrange a better version for you as soon as they are available. Normally we need the defective items back then the replacements can be arranged. If you would like to wait for 2-3 weeks, for your experience, the new items will be sent to you without bothering you to return the current pair to us.

Sorry for the inconvenience.

*SoundCore Support Team *
12:14 AM (3 hours ago)


----------



## falang (Nov 24, 2019)

Update on my L2 Pro issue.  After fiddling with the fit all day, I think I have realized that I'm not used to this type of IEM after years of using Westone products.  They don't really insert deep like Westones or my Anbes, and they feel sort of awkward in how they rest in my ears.  After getting over that initial roadblock, I feel like I'm starting to enjoy their sound.

Also, the volume/gain issue is still there.  I fiddled with the button volume controls, reset them twice, forgot and re-paired them with my phone, and the low volume issue still remains. My  conclusion is that the EQ settings appear to lower the volume output considerably.  After going through the Hearing ID gimmicky thing, that turned out to give me an increase in volume, and is now my preferred preset.

I believe I have the 2nd unit, with a firmware of 01.15.  Is that what everyone else is on?  I feel like the hiss is still present, especially on podcasts.

So, I'm currently listening to them at 80% in a quiet environment like my apartment.  I'm concerned that this will not be sufficient when on the subway or on flights.  What volume level is everyone else listening to their L2 Pros at?


----------



## falang

d3myz said:


> Soooo... I reached out to Anker about my second pair of L2pros not receiving the newest firmware last week. They pushed the new firmware and I've had zero issues other then the gain is lower, but they advised there was another new version coming, when I asked for clarification, I got this e-mail. So, looks like I got a free pair of L2pros.



Do you think you have the first version and they are giving you the newly updated 2nd version?  Or is this a third version coming out?


----------



## srinivasvignesh

Darkestred said:


> It does appear to be the same as the sabbat.  The case is roughly 1.5" (38.1mm) high and ~2.5" (63.5mm) wide.  Its very possible to use after market tips and encounter no charge issues.  I used a medium size pair and the iems went perfectly into the case.
> 
> I took these to the gym and the music is usually very loud there.  I couldn't hear anything but its possible the music was playing softly.  I used them around the house and i couldn't hear anything when people were talking to me.  I do not listen very loud but i also do not listen very low, either
> 
> I'll be using this for the gym more often than not.  I'll report back with isolation after a couple more visits.



Thanks. Do you have any further information to add based on any further use?


----------



## Pete7874 (Nov 24, 2019)

falang said:


> So, I'm currently listening to them at 80% in a quiet environment like my apartment.  I'm concerned that this will not be sufficient when on the subway or on flights.  What volume level is everyone else listening to their L2 Pros at?


Obviously we all have different volume preferences, but I had mine on a plane recently and found the volume sufficient.  Not sure what % level I was at, but I was one or two button clicks away from max.  That was when connected to my Shanling DAP with its output level set at 75 (out of 100).  I use the Treble Reducer EQ curve on my L2P as I find them too bright otherwise.


----------



## Pete7874

d3myz said:


> Soooo... I reached out to Anker about my second pair of L2pros not receiving the newest firmware last week. They pushed the new firmware and I've had zero issues other then the gain is lower, but they advised there was another new version coming, when I asked for clarification, I got this e-mail. So, looks like I got a free pair of L2pros.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Did you buy your L2P from Amazon or from Anker directly?


----------



## Samplingentropy

Wrong thread, but I can't find the right one.
Where can I find info on threaded wireless iem's?
I'm so sure I'll lose one of these tws ones it's not funny..
And threaded seems more budget friendly.?


----------



## cwill

Samplingentropy said:


> Wrong thread, but I can't find the right one.
> Where can I find info on threaded wireless iem's?
> I'm so sure I'll lose one of these tws ones it's not funny..
> And threaded seems more budget friendly.?


This guy's a convert and doesn't even know it. Get him boys.


----------



## dweaver

falang said:


> Update on my L2 Pro issue.  After fiddling with the fit all day, I think I have realized that I'm not used to this type of IEM after years of using Westone products.  They don't really insert deep like Westones or my Anbes, and they feel sort of awkward in how they rest in my ears.  After getting over that initial roadblock, I feel like I'm starting to enjoy their sound.
> 
> Also, the volume/gain issue is still there.  I fiddled with the button volume controls, reset them twice, forgot and re-paired them with my phone, and the low volume issue still remains. My  conclusion is that the EQ settings appear to lower the volume output considerably.  After going through the Hearing ID gimmicky thing, that turned out to give me an increase in volume, and is now my preferred preset.
> 
> ...



I listen between 25% and 50% for almost all my listening.


----------



## ngd3

Got my custom tips from CustomArt last week. Takes a while to get used to insertion (wink), but fit is pretty damn good. They were made for my incoming Sony Mx3s but fit perfectly on my L2Ps. Big fan so far, I'll use these more often than the stock tips. They don't even stick out much further, and fit and isolation are much better.

It was a little over $200 between impressions and tips but worth it in the long run imo


----------



## Samplingentropy

cwill said:


> This guy's a convert and doesn't even know it. Get him boys.[/QUOTE
> 
> Noooo!
> I dream of wireless,but cash is short..
> I live in my headphones so, of course I want/need more of them =p


----------



## D3soLaT3

Received the Tranya Rimor this morning. Good to see it's not the same case as the Tranya T3/Lenovo HT10. The Rimor has a really great fit at least for my ears. Definitely not the bass you'd expect from a 10mm driver. The 8mm in the HT10 is way more punchy and overall funner to listen to. If I had to describe the Rimor in one word it would be sterile. That is not necessarily a bad thing, but it does remind me of the Pinnacle P1 if anyone has heard that. Just very tame and clinical. Probably would have been a big hit a year ago when people were interested in a more analytical sound. Gonna be listening all day as they do have a pleasant sound. Considering the Rimor is currently the same price as the L2P, it is difficult to say if there is room for it in anyone's stocking.


----------



## d3myz

falang said:


> Do you think you have the first version and they are giving you the newly updated 2nd version?  Or is this a third version coming out?


I had the first version with the higher gain and I didn’t notice a hiss or a high noise floor, just some popping sounds when they would initiate playback. Then they sent me the revision 2, which is what I currently have. It has noticeably lower volume and a little less bass. Both revisions are using firmware 1.15 as the most current. My post above mentions that they are doing a third revision because some people are still hearing a hiss. I’m sure there are some revision 1’s out there, but if you are having to turn your volume up to 80% you most likely have revision 2. I’d reach out to sound core and let them know. They’ll probably send you the new revision when it becomes available.


----------



## Darkestred (Nov 24, 2019)

srinivasvignesh said:


> Thanks. Do you have any further information to add based on any further use?



I am liking them more and more.  I find myself going to these over my CIEM solution and its not because they are better.  The Falcon's are simply "good enough" to relieve heavy hitting duty - all the time.  I have them equalized a bit, however.

With the right tips; The Falcons (currently using smallest noble tips) isolate very well.  I have a loud car and with them in i can barely hear the engine/exhaust when no muisc is playing.  The gym i go to has very loud music on.  The Falcon's, all but tune out the outside noise when nothing is playing.  Sounds like a whisper.

YMMW i suppose as someone in the Falcon sponsor thread said these isolate very poorly. I think tip selection is key and of course insertion dept.


----------



## d3myz

Pete7874 said:


> Did you buy your L2P from Amazon or from Anker directly?


Anker.


----------



## srinivasvignesh

Darkestred said:


> I am liking them more and more.  I find myself going to these over my CIEM solution and its not because they are better.  The Falcon's are simply "good enough" to relieve heavy hitting duty - all the time.  I have them equalized a bit, however.
> 
> With the right tips; The Falcons (currently using smallest noble tips) isolate very well.  I have a loud car and with them in i can barely hear the engine/exhaust when no muisc is playing.  The gym i go to has very loud music on.  The Falcon's, all but tune out the outside noise when nothing is playing.  Sounds like a whisper.
> 
> YMMW i suppose as someone in the Falcon sponsor thread said these isolate very poorly. I think tip selection is key and of course insertion dept.



thank you very much!


----------



## wksoh

d3myz said:


> You should pick up the L2pro. It’s $70 off right now on Anker’s site. I just paid $85. My first pair I got on their early bird launch deal for $100. I have the blon’s as well, it01 and the Tin T2 and I personally like the L2Pro more. I’m not using them with the bt20s, just a silver BT 4.2 Aptx cable I got off Penon.


OH.. So you have 2 x L2pros.. That good? You're Tempting me..


----------



## wksoh

Samplingentropy said:


> Wrong thread, but I can't find the right one.
> Where can I find info on threaded wireless iem's?
> I'm so sure I'll lose one of these tws ones it's not funny..
> And threaded seems more budget friendly.?


I just received the mpow m5 and really loving it. The boys here found Anker Liberty 2 pros to be top notched.


----------



## wksoh

tma6 said:


> Yup! No lag at all. Also you can get it for $87 on their website rn with the code JERRYL2P. Great deal, considering that imo they're worth it for $150.


I added to cart and it's $149. Entered the code and it was  $109...


----------



## d3myz

voicemaster said:


> They are okay, but need quite heavy EQing for them to sound to my liking. Even with that, the e12u can't beat mpow t5 and fiil t1x in sound imho.


You weren’t kidding, I got the Fiil T1X today and I’m very impressed. They sound excellent, even if the controls are a nightmare.


----------



## d3myz

wksoh said:


> OH.. So you have 2 x L2pros.. That good? You're Tempting me..


I actually will have three when the new versions arrive in three weeks or so.


----------



## d3myz

falang said:


> Do you think you have the first version and they are giving you the newly updated 2nd version?  Or is this a third version coming out?


I have the first version, and the second version. They’re going to be sending me the third version in 2 to 3 weeks.


----------



## d3myz

wksoh said:


> I added to cart and it's $149. Entered the code and it was  $109...


Just out of curiosity I added them to my cart as well and it looks like the price has gone back up. Sorry man, that’s a bummer. 109 is still not bad at all.


----------



## X-Nemesis

What's considered the best sub $60-70 Touch based TWS among you guys?


----------



## wksoh (Nov 24, 2019)

d3myz said:


> You weren’t kidding, I got the Fiil T1X today and I’m very impressed. They sound excellent, even if the controls are a nightmare.


How does it compare to the L2pro? Or Mpow m5? Any sibilance or overly V shaped sounding? I'm sensitive to that.


----------



## voicemaster

d3myz said:


> You weren’t kidding, I got the Fiil T1X today and I’m very impressed. They sound excellent, even if the controls are a nightmare.



Haha toldya. I am maybe in minority, but I actually rarely use the controls from the TWS as I always just take out my phone, tho I know it might come in handy sometimes. I am using my TWS just like I am using a wired one lol. How's T1X sounds compared to L2P? Can't wait until Fiil release the app for T1X.


----------



## voicemaster (Nov 24, 2019)

wksoh said:


> How does it compare to the L2pro? Or Mpow m5? Any sibilance? I'm sensitive to that.



I don't know about L2P, but with M5, the T1X sounds larger, more detailed, high are splashy but rarely sibilance (cymbals, crash and hi-hat sounds really good), the bass has less impact than the m5, but it is more detailed (kinda similar to BLON bl03 kind of bass). If I can say, the tuning is kinda like harman target sound. Oh and the craziest thing with t1x is that even tho it doesn't support aptx, but there is no delay at all from what I usually test for TWS. 
This song sounds really good with T1X. The decay on the cymbals is pretty nice.


----------



## wksoh

voicemaster said:


> I don't know about L2P, but with M5, the T1X sounds larger, more detailed, high are splashy but rarely sibilance (cymbals, crash and hi-hat sounds really good), the bass has less impact than the m5, but it is more detailed (kinda similar to BLON bl03 kind of bass). If I can say, the tuning is kinda like harman target sound. Oh and the craziest thing with t1x is that even tho it doesn't support aptx, but there is no delay at all from what I usually test for TWS.
> This song sounds really good with T1X. The decay on the cymbals is pretty nice.



Thank you thank you!! Tempting!!


----------



## voicemaster

I think what makes Fiil t1x sounds good is the sound separation and tuning ofc.
 
Listening to this song, I can clearly hear what the vocalist is saying even the scream is very clear lol. Can hear the guitar and violin clearly which my bl03 kinda struggle.


----------



## genck

hey look real life waifus


----------



## D3soLaT3

First video review I've seen of the Tranya Rimor. I'm in agreement with Brian's assessment after listening to them for almost eight hours today. The Rimor do not have all the bells and whistles but they do sound very good. Can't wait for more opinions and comparisons with the Lypertek Tevi.


----------



## FYLegend

What's the difference between MPOW M5 and T5? I also see a version with yellow on the shell on their site touted as a new version.

I'm not sure if I should get M5/T5 or M8, the latter having USB Type C and being advertised as having deep bass. Unfortunately, the M8's price has gone up to 60$ CAD on Amazon.ca. Must have noticed the price disparity elsewhere...


----------



## tma6

d3myz said:


> I had the first version with the higher gain and I didn’t notice a hiss or a high noise floor, just some popping sounds when they would initiate playback. Then they sent me the revision 2, which is what I currently have. It has noticeably lower volume and a little less bass. Both revisions are using firmware 1.15 as the most current. My post above mentions that they are doing a third revision because some people are still hearing a hiss. I’m sure there are some revision 1’s out there, but if you are having to turn your volume up to 80% you most likely have revision 2. I’d reach out to sound core and let them know. They’ll probably send you the new revision when it becomes available.



Yooo such a good call. They just got back to me, looks like I’ll be getting a free new set myself!


----------



## nadz

d3myz said:


> Just out of curiosity I added them to my cart as well and it looks like the price has gone back up. Sorry man, that’s a bummer. 109 is still not bad at all.



Can anybody else confirm the promo code has expired? mine tallied up to usd155? 



FYLegend said:


> What's the difference between MPOW M5 and T5? I also see a version with yellow on the shell on their site touted as a new version.
> 
> I'm not sure if I should get M5/T5 or M8, the latter having USB Type C and being advertised as having deep bass. Unfortunately, the M8's price has gone up to 60$ CAD on Amazon.ca. Must have noticed the price disparity elsewhere...



If i am not mistaken (if earlier posts in this thread is to be believed, as well as some product page description in an aliex shop), MPOW M5 is just a name change from MPOW T5, packaging is a bit different (from red to white), but in essence, both are the same. MPOW T5 had one last revision in August quoted to 'have better support for Android 9' but going forward, MPOW M5 would be the one you're looking for.

I can vouch for T5 myself as i have one, terrific buds for the price, but have been looking for an upgrade. Looks like I missed the L2PRO deal by a day or two. Bummer.


----------



## facethemusic88

Anyone has the Tranya Rimors? Seems they sound close to Tevis.


----------



## Samplingentropy

wksoh said:


> I just received the mpow m5 and really loving it. The boys here found Anker Liberty 2 pros to be top notched.



Thanks, the mpow solved the budget part(almost).
Now it's just the, I'm gonna lose one of them part..
I'd love to try the Anker liberty, spent the last few nights reading this thread and they do get super reviews, but for now they are way out of my price range =[

No thread about wired but still wireless iem's?
Thinking the style of JBL reflect mini and others.
Hope to find a descent pair for say 20€ isch?
Sound just have to be "good enough" as they are gonna be used mountain biking and such,not for anything critical.
For "good sound" I still turn to my huge as German Maestro's.
I basically just wanna try the freedom of no leash


----------



## gibletzor

facethemusic88 said:


> Anyone has the Tranya Rimors? Seems they sound close to Tevis.


I'll have mine later today, hopefully.


----------



## baskingshark

Hi friends, would like to seek your advise. One of my family members wants a true wireless earbud for Christmas.
She prefers something shaped like airpods, listens to a variety of genres. Budget ~ $100 - 150 USD.
I only use the TRN BT20 but she doesn't like the form factor.

Any recommendations? Thanks in advance!!


----------



## ngd3

US folks - black Galaxy buds for ~$60 open box like new on Amazon after 20% off


----------



## XGUGU

baskingshark said:


> Hi friends, would like to seek your advise. One of my family members wants a true wireless earbud for Christmas.
> She prefers something shaped like airpods, listens to a variety of genres. Budget ~ $100 - 150 USD.
> I only use the TRN BT20 but she doesn't like the form factor.
> 
> Any recommendations? Thanks in advance!!


Soundcore Liberty Air 2


----------



## Grayson73

2019 Upgraded, Anker Soundcore Liberty Neo 33.99.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07MCGZK3B


----------



## SoundChoice

baskingshark said:


> Hi friends, would like to seek your advise. One of my family members wants a true wireless earbud for Christmas.
> She prefers something shaped like airpods, listens to a variety of genres. Budget ~ $100 - 150 USD.
> I only use the TRN BT20 but she doesn't like the form factor.
> 
> Any recommendations? Thanks in advance!!



I am starting to discover more about the TWS BT world. I stumbled across this which may help.
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/goi...re-we-there-yet.861024/page-865#post-15229127

It seems the only advantage of QCY QS2 over QS1 is the battery charge.

I cannot find an AE link for the SSK that seems to be another consensus choice.

I hope this helps.


----------



## Mouseman

Does anyone else who have the Rimors notice a distortion in the upper mids or highs? I ran some frequency sweeps, it doesn't show up in them. It seems to happen when there is a higher male voice and some drums (snare or cymbals).

I've had mine for two days, so far they are a miss. The B530s are technically superior, I'm not sure how they missed with a bigger driver. The quality of the case and size is much better, but SQ is not. I'll give it a few more days before I post an Amazon review.


----------



## dweaver (Nov 25, 2019)

After a few more days using the L2P I have grown to appreciate their design. They are smaller than the WF-1000XM3 so less conspicuous and they are easy to remove when I need to talk to someone. I miss the pass through mode but not nearly as much as I thought I would due to the ease of removing them. They certainly are stable for me as well.

The button control on the top is so much better than any other touch or button control on any TWS I have tried. I really appreciate being able to answer calls or pause music from either bud.

I did a call in the wind yesterday and my wife said she could here noise but I was always clear and the noise was very low. Making these pretty close to perfect for the environment I live in.


----------



## Timastyle

Not exactly sure what the consensus is on the HiFiMan TWS600, but they're currently on sale for $99 for those interested:  https://www.amazon.com/HIFIMAN-Wate...KX0DER&qid=1574655429&s=merchant-items&sr=1-3

On a separate note, I got some Galaxy buds yesterday.  After the firmware upgrade and a number or tips, they sounded ok to me.  I never got a great seal like I do with the SSK (Tried the Auvio large, stock tips, and SpinFit 360 medium tips). Nothing was overly impressive.  I liked the SQ of the SSK better.  

One thing I was really interested in was the Ambient Sound mode.  Not sure if it was not working properly, not having a great seal, or user error (last one is probably the most likely), but I was barely getting any ambient noise coming through.  Maybe it's also that I had the volume cranked up for music.  I was expecting the ambient noise to somewhat override the music in a sense, but that's not the case.  Even when I wasn't listening to music, I tested it out with the TV.  Earbuds in, ambient off, then turn it on and there was an ever so slight change in what I was hearing, but there wasn't a drastic difference.  Is this how they typically are (ambient mode that is)?


----------



## deadguy99

After spending the weekend with the l2p I’m sending it back, on the whole it’s a great earphone with some small caveats, the fit was great and they felt nearly weightless, the connection strength was great as well as battery life. On to the not so great is the sound, with almost every eq setting the lower minds have such a recessed/sucked in feeling it’s uncomfortable to listen do, piano was the only acceptable one which did sound very good overall but just a hair too bright for me to listen to for 8 hours a day at work. The kicker that’s making me send them back isn’t the hiss(which seems like something most companies solved from early BA development) which I could live with, it was this awful static sound that just kept happening every 30 seconds to an hour or so at complete random it seemed, ive had it happen every 20-30 seconds back to back and then not hear it for an hour. If they can fix these electronics issues and add a fully customizable eq I would buy the next iteration in a heart beat.


----------



## dweaver

Man that sucks that you have that static issue with your L2P. I am glad my pair doesn't have that issue.

I would love a customizable EQ, hopefully it is something that can be done on the APP side. My fear is that the custom EQs are all built in to the headphone and the app just sets the one you want in which case a whole new firmware would be required at the least along with an App upgrade. Fortunately for me the Piano and acoustic EQ work. I found the acoustic to be not as sharp sounding as the Piano, how did that one work for you?


----------



## deadguy99

I found the acoustic far worse than piano and the bottom right uh vocal I believe, I’ve always been super sensitive to lower treble always sounding too loud and makes me squint while listening to certain headphones, I’ve always love Sennheiser because I’ve never had a headphone by them with that quality. And as far as the static pop sound, I bought mine directly through the Anker seller through amazon so it’s either all models doing it and some don’t notice or it’s some kind of lottery as I would of expected direct from the manufacturer would only be he updated non glitchy sounding ones as they stated it was a fixed problem, so I dunno what’s going on over there. If only the Sennheiser true wireless has better battery life I bet I’d be more to my liking.


----------



## jasaero

deadguy99 said:


> After spending the weekend with the l2p I’m sending it back, on the whole it’s a great earphone with some small caveats, the fit was great and they felt nearly weightless, the connection strength was great as well as battery life. On to the not so great is the sound, with almost every eq setting the lower minds have such a recessed/sucked in feeling it’s uncomfortable to listen do, piano was the only acceptable one which did sound very good overall but just a hair too bright for me to listen to for 8 hours a day at work. The kicker that’s making me send them back isn’t the hiss(which seems like something most companies solved from early BA development) which I could live with, it was this awful static sound that just kept happening every 30 seconds to an hour or so at complete random it seemed, ive had it happen every 20-30 seconds back to back and then not hear it for an hour. If they can fix these electronics issues and add a fully customizable eq I would buy the next iteration in a heart beat.



I think the static could be a fluke on yours or maybe something to do with the device you are using??  It seems I had that happen maybe one time in hours and hours of listening and reconnecting stopped it and I haven't heard it again.  I do agree they could clip highs somewhat.  I am not sure why a lot of good audio gear tends to make the "sss" sounds too harsh, but it seems very common.  Sorta think it's an issue with microphones and production folks not correcting for it well more than the audio gear.  Or maybe some deliberate mess in how things are done on each end with mass market audio gear tuning it out so production folks don't worry about it and basically cause consternation for the hifi enthusiast that likes one to one input to output.


----------



## deadguy99

Well I spent a bit of time with my lg v35 which was nice being able to switch from aac to aptx on the fly, aptx sounding significantly clearer with tighter and stronger bass, and also spent a bunch of time with my iPhone 8 and they did them consistently and often on both, it was subtle but once I realized it became more obvious to me I guess.


----------



## clerkpalmer

deadguy99 said:


> After spending the weekend with the l2p I’m sending it back, on the whole it’s a great earphone with some small caveats, the fit was great and they felt nearly weightless, the connection strength was great as well as battery life. On to the not so great is the sound, with almost every eq setting the lower minds have such a recessed/sucked in feeling it’s uncomfortable to listen do, piano was the only acceptable one which did sound very good overall but just a hair too bright for me to listen to for 8 hours a day at work. The kicker that’s making me send them back isn’t the hiss(which seems like something most companies solved from early BA development) which I could live with, it was this awful static sound that just kept happening every 30 seconds to an hour or so at complete random it seemed, ive had it happen every 20-30 seconds back to back and then not hear it for an hour. If they can fix these electronics issues and add a fully customizable eq I would buy the next iteration in a heart beat.


Interesting.  I have noticed some static in the right earpiece that comes on from time to time.  I was chalking it up to BT interference but maybe there is more to this.


----------



## voicemaster

deadguy99 said:


> After spending the weekend with the l2p I’m sending it back, on the whole it’s a great earphone with some small caveats, the fit was great and they felt nearly weightless, the connection strength was great as well as battery life. On to the not so great is the sound, with almost every eq setting the lower minds have such a recessed/sucked in feeling it’s uncomfortable to listen do, piano was the only acceptable one which did sound very good overall but just a hair too bright for me to listen to for 8 hours a day at work. The kicker that’s making me send them back isn’t the hiss(which seems like something most companies solved from early BA development) which I could live with, it was this awful static sound that just kept happening every 30 seconds to an hour or so at complete random it seemed, ive had it happen every 20-30 seconds back to back and then not hear it for an hour. If they can fix these electronics issues and add a fully customizable eq I would buy the next iteration in a heart beat.



Try the fiil t1x only $50 on amazon so easy return if you don't like the sound or fit tho I strongly believe you won't. Other thing that I haven't talked about the t1x is the bluetooth connection. It will connect automatically to your device once paired just like an airpods or Galaxy buds.


----------



## deadguy99

Ya it really seems looking at all the reviews and ideas popping up in the Bluetooth earbud world that it’s a bit of a race to get a name in the market for people to talk about and almost every product seems almost rushed in some way, and why are some companies able to give massive battery and range advantage like mavins and l2p when most others fall so short, when a company as big as Sennheiser can only come up with earbuds for 300 dollars and that have awful battery life connection issues and charging case problems it’s a bit of a bummer, here’s hoping the next year or two everything just gets a bit more refined in every category.


----------



## d3myz

Mouseman said:


> Does anyone else who have the Rimors notice a distortion in the upper mids or highs? I ran some frequency sweeps, it doesn't show up in them. It seems to happen when there is a higher male voice and some drums (snare or cymbals).
> 
> I've had mine for two days, so far they are a miss. The B530s are technically superior, I'm not sure how they missed with a bigger driver. The quality of the case and size is much better, but SQ is not. I'll give it a few more days before I post an Amazon review.


I'm not sure if I've noticed distortion per say, but the high mids don't sound good to me they are borderline shrill.


----------



## d3myz

voicemaster said:


> Try the fiil t1x only $50 on amazon so easy return if you don't like the sound or fit tho I strongly believe you won't. Other thing that I haven't talked about the t1x is the bluetooth connection. It will connect automatically to your device once paired just like an airpods or Galaxy buds.


They also connect when you don't want them too in the case. It's pretty annoying. I have to disconnect them manually from my device or just turn them off and leave them out of the case if they are fully charged.


----------



## dweaver

I have noticed a bit of static issues on my right earbud as well in regards to L2P. I will monitor it more closely.

@deadguy99, I own the MTW and I do think you would like it more in regards to the areas of sound you mentioned, plus it has a customizable EQ. I hear Sennheiser is working on a version 2 model, hopefully they add battery life and resolve their case battery drain issues. Either that or you can find a good deal on the current model.


----------



## voicemaster

d3myz said:


> They also connect when you don't want them too in the case. It's pretty annoying. I have to disconnect them manually from my device or just turn them off and leave them out of the case if they are fully charged.



That doesn't happen to me tho. When I put them in the case, they disconnect right away and when I opened the case, they connected right away too.


----------



## deadguy99

Ya I’d happily buy an updated senn, also curiosity is killing me so I just purchased the mavin air xr and will get them Friday, I’ll update on any important differences from the air x after I get them, I still suggest anyone to try the mavin air x tho with comply tips as I found the hard to use actively with their silicone tips for the suction cup effect the sealed cavities create and how finicky the fit depth changes the overall sq of them. I still think they sound even better than the l2p in aptx codec


----------



## wksoh

FYLegend said:


> What's the difference between MPOW M5 and T5? I also see a version with yellow on the shell on their site touted as a new version.
> 
> I'm not sure if I should get M5/T5 or M8, the latter having USB Type C and being advertised as having deep bass. Unfortunately, the M8's price has gone up to 60$ CAD on Amazon.ca. Must have noticed the price disparity elsewhere...


From what I found out over youtube and web pages... T5 came out first - had rave reviews but had some connection problems. Product was discontinued / pulled.
M5 apparently is the new version that had the connection problems resolved...


----------



## SoundChoice

I'm new to your "wireless IEM" world. After reading the last few pages of this thousand-page thread, it seems that the Liberty 2 Pro is kind of the hot thing, kind of a bluetooth Blon BL-O3. I've got one 2-pin TRN BL20S, and am generally pleased with it, but my problem is that the snap-back wire pulls the IEMs out of my ears so I can't get a seal. As a result, good-fitting IEMs with a cable (ZS10 Pro, Blons) don't fit without one, and large clunky monsters (ZS10 original) do. (is there a way to re-shape the BT20S wire that's reversible?)

Looking one step beyond (cue Madness), is there a consensus Bluetooth IEM under $30? Under $100? Under $150? I mostly listen to rock and like a somewhat v-shape. I enjoy the V90 and C12, and of course, BL03. Thanks!


----------



## d3myz

facethemusic88 said:


> Anyone has the Tranya Rimors? Seems they sound close to Tevis.


I have them, they are a far cry from the Tevis, but they do have more and better bass. The Rimor's are very mid rangy especially at the higher end. I am not a fan. however @voicemaster  and his incessant barbing about the Fiil TX1 got me to pick them up and i've got to say, if they Tevi has a sub $100 competitor for clarity, it's the T1x.


----------



## facethemusic88

d3myz said:


> I have them, they are a far cry from the Tevis, but they do have more and better bass. The Rimor's are very mid rangy especially at the higher end. I am not a fan. however @voicemaster  and his incessant barbing about the Fiil TX1 got me to pick them up and i've got to say, if they Tevi has a sub $100 competitor for clarity, it's the T1x.



Thanks man. Brian in that video said it was close to Tevi's sound and I thought it would be an alternative given that I will be using it for the gym only. I have the Mpow T5s and Tronsmart Spunkies. Would the Fiil t1x be an upgrade sonic wise? The one thing infuriate me about Mpow is the push buttons. What a bummer. The cheaper Spunkies have touch control and it makes life much much convenient.


----------



## voicemaster

SoundChoice said:


> I'm new to your "wireless IEM" world. After reading the last few pages of this thousand-page thread, it seems that the Liberty 2 Pro is kind of the hot thing, kind of a bluetooth Blon BL-O3. I've got one 2-pin TRN BL20S, and am generally pleased with it, but my problem is that the snap-back wire pulls the IEMs out of my ears so I can't get a seal. As a result, good-fitting IEMs with a cable (ZS10 Pro, Blons) don't fit without one, and large clunky monsters (ZS10 original) do. (is there a way to re-shape the BT20S wire that's reversible?)
> 
> Looking one step beyond (cue Madness), is there a consensus Bluetooth IEM under $30? Under $100? Under $150? I mostly listen to rock and like a somewhat v-shape. I enjoy the V90 and C12, and of course, BL03. Thanks!



The closest tws I have that similar to blon bl03 and bt20s combo is fiil t1x. I think the t1x sounds clearer in vocal and has better separation than the blon. I do have 90% of the iems your listed lol (2 zs10pro, 3 blon bl03 and c12)


----------



## go0gle

dweaver said:


> Man that sucks that you have that static issue with your L2P. I am glad my pair doesn't have that issue.
> 
> I would love a customizable EQ, hopefully it is something that can be done on the APP side. My fear is that the custom EQs are all built in to the headphone and the app just sets the one you want in which case a whole new firmware would be required at the least along with an App upgrade. Fortunately for me the Piano and acoustic EQ work. I found the acoustic to be not as sharp sounding as the Piano, how did that one work for you?



A customizable EQ would be really great! Its a very personal thing and it really depends on the type of music you are listening to, the piano and acoustic EQs don't work for me at all ..


----------



## Mouseman

facethemusic88 said:


> Thanks man. Brian in that video said it was close to Tevi's sound and I thought it would be an alternative given that I will be using it for the gym only. I have the Mpow T5s and Tronsmart Spunkies. Would the Fiil t1x be an upgrade sonic wise? The one thing infuriate me about Mpow is the push buttons. What a bummer. The cheaper Spunkies have touch control and it makes life much much convenient.


Both of the Tranyas I have utilize touch controls, and I have to say they're more than a bit touchy (pun not intended). I can't even move them in my ear without setting it off. It's probably due to the wide area that is the trigger point.

If you like the T5 (which I have and like), then I would suggest that the Tranya B530 is a definite sound upgrade, plus they are more rock-solid in the ear. I would not recommend the Rimors at this moment...I'm only a few days in, and I'm sad to say that I'm not at all impressed.


----------



## d3myz

wksoh said:


> From what I found out over youtube and web pages... T5 came out first - had rave reviews but had some connection problems. Product was discontinued / pulled.
> M5 apparently is the new version that had the connection problems resolved...


I can vouch for this, i'm on my 2nd and soon to be 3rd pair from MPOW. hopefully this time the send me the M5. 



voicemaster said:


> The closest tws I have that similar to blon bl03 and bt20s combo is fiil t1x. I think the t1x sounds clearer in vocal and has better separation than the blon. I do have 90% of the iems your listed lol (2 zs10pro, 3 blon bl03 and c12)



Personally I think the L2pro and the blon are hard to compare they are just different. the blon is much warmer, less sub bass and has WAY thicker mids than the l2pro. It's a snare drum lovers dream. The L2pro has much crisper and sparkly highs, and the Blons are rolled off, that's the only downside me. however, i'm comparing the wired blon directly connected to my XS Max, to the L2pro BT. What differences have you noticed with the blon wired vs. using the BT20s? 

Also, been comparing the T1x to the Tranya B530, T3, Lystar J29, Liberty 2 pro. Hands down the L2pro is better IMO. they lystar's are amazing way more bass, but not that definition the T1x has in the highs, it rolls off before the T1x, they are still awesome, and i'd recommend giving them a try. The T1x has better mids and high mids than the B530 and I'd say it's as far as definition it's better than the T3 which I think gets over looked here. the T3 is excellent in all aspects except the bass at times is so loud that you can't hear how excellent the top end really is although it's also a bit thin and recessed in the mids. I'm still really impressed with the t1x, I have noticed some sss's and a bit of siblance when using normal tips but the JVC spiral dots do an excellent job of eliminating it and man, do they sound good together. My only complaint is they are really bright like the bowmaker, but the bowmaker had less bass and sounded thinner I can't get too loud with the FIIL other it starts to hurt my ears maybe 60-70%. 

Great find. I wish I still had the Tevi to compare, because I think these sound better. They have excellent definition and if the Tevi's have neutral bass these are maybe +1 compared to the T3 which is like +8


----------



## Darkestred

@srinivasvignesh Looks like the gentlemen i was referring to in the sponsored thread switched to my recommendation of smaller tips and confirms the isolation is good.  *Thumbs up*


----------



## San Man

My L2P arrived and is sitting in my mailbox.  Quick delivery time indeed


----------



## CocaCola15 (Nov 25, 2019)

go0gle said:


> A customizable EQ would be really great! Its a very personal thing and it really depends on the type of music you are listening to, the piano and acoustic EQs don't work for me at all ..


I’ve mentioned this before, I purchased the KaiserTone Audio app via the iTunes store (have an IP 8+) and it’s got a great customizable EQ. 10 or 20-band, your choice. I don’t even turn on the L2P app, sweet tuning it to my preferences. Then save the setting. You can even create 3-4 settings for the L2P. Only caveat$ It costs $10. Worth every dime to me.


----------



## Quicky32

My L2P were shipped today and the email says they should arrive in a few days...


----------



## go0gle

CocaCola15 said:


> I’ve mentioned this before, I purchased the KaiserTone Audio app via the iTunes store (have an IP 8+) and it’s got a great customizable EQ. 10 or 20-band, your choice. I don’t even turn on the L2P app, sweet tuning it to my preferences. Then save the setting. You can even create 3-4 settings for the L2P. Only caveat$ It costs $10. Worth every dime to me.



I opted for the neutron player for iOS for local playback, which has pretty good EQ management. Problem is neither of these two work for online streaming


----------



## d3myz (Nov 25, 2019)

CocaCola15 said:


> I’ve mentioned this before, I purchased the KaiserTone Audio app via the iTunes store (have an IP 8+) and it’s got a great customizable EQ. 10 or 20-band, your choice. I don’t even turn on the L2P app, sweet tuning it to my preferences. Then save the setting. You can even create 3-4 settings for the L2P. Only caveat$ It costs $10. Worth every dime to me.


Another caveat is that it doesn't work with spotify or any of the streaming services even if the files are saved to your phone. Really bummed about that, because it's a really cool program.


----------



## d3myz

Mouseman said:


> Both of the Tranyas I have utilize touch controls, and I have to say they're more than a bit touchy (pun not intended). I can't even move them in my ear without setting it off. It's probably due to the wide area that is the trigger point.
> 
> If you like the T5 (which I have and like), then I would suggest that the Tranya B530 is a definite sound upgrade, plus they are more rock-solid in the ear. I would not recommend the Rimors at this moment...I'm only a few days in, and I'm sad to say that I'm not at all impressed.


I'm with you man, I just compared them to the, FiiL T1x, MPOW T5, Tranya B530, T3, again. I mean, They don't suck, because they are really well tuned if you like a flat sound signature and then a spike in the mids that push All the vocals, guitars, keyboards really forward. Such a shame. The bass definition is really good, but there's just not much of it. I think you or someone else described them as sterile and I couldn't agree more. anyone want to trade or buy them let me know. I'm getting them free from Tranya so i'll unload them for ridiculously cheap.


----------



## CocaCola15 (Nov 25, 2019)

d3myz said:


> Another caveat is that it doesn't work with spotify or any of the streaming services even if the files are saved to your phone. Really bummed about that, because it's a really cool program.


Funny, but I was about to edit my post to reflect your addition. True, doesn't work with streaming services, which is a problem. Also, doesn't work with Android phones, which is another bummer. But if you have an iPhone loaded with onboard tracks, which I do, nothing compares. So when out and about, I use onboard tracks. When at home, I do use Amazon HD Music, so I have to revert to the Soundcore app. I also find the piano decent but not the same as the Kaiser EQ. Acoustic, with my IP8+, a bit too harsh with the highs/mids.


----------



## d3myz

Damn @hifi80sman, I hope you know a good doctor. I'm going to need some therapy after my wife leaves me. At least i'll have some nice Wireless audio equipment. 

I couldn't resist. Can't Stop?, Won't Stop? 

https://slickdeals.net/f/13621816-s...132354460&src=da_si_v2_71889775#post132354460


----------



## jant71

After the wife leaves you'll have more $$$ for TWS


----------



## voicemaster (Nov 25, 2019)

d3myz said:


> I can vouch for this, i'm on my 2nd and soon to be 3rd pair from MPOW. hopefully this time the send me the M5.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



The blon does scale well with better amping. Using my liquid carbon, the blon's bass becomes tighter thus making the mid and highs clearer.
Oh and the T1X case allows using regular size tips without obstructing the charging port. It is small things like this that most often get overlooked and can be annoying.


----------



## d3myz (Nov 25, 2019)

facethemusic88 said:


> Thanks man. Brian in that video said it was close to Tevi's sound and I thought it would be an alternative given that I will be using it for the gym only. I have the Mpow T5s and Tronsmart Spunkies. Would the Fiil T1X be an upgrade sonic wise? The one thing infuriate me about Mpow is the push buttons. What a bummer. The cheaper Spunkies have touch control and it makes life much much convenient.


Well, they are just tuned diff. I think the T5 is a great TWS, but the T1X is tuning much more u shaped and really shines in the clarity dept, probably due to it's reduced low end. what type of sound do you like? I think the T1X is a great choice once you get used to the weird controls. They don't have a lot of bass, so they don't sound quite as full as the Tranya B530 or the T5, but their upper end definition is some of the best i've heard in a single DD TWS. More like the Tevi. Personally, because I like the feel my music i'd get the B530 or the Tranya T3 if you really want to feel it. the Lystar J29 is another really cheaply made TWS, that has great sound. I did comparisons with it and the T1X. it has a lot more punch and bass, yet it nearly matches the definition and tuning of the T1x. I still use it all the time and i love them, they also have a really soft push button that doesn't jam into your ears.


----------



## webvan

wksoh said:


> From what I found out over youtube and web pages... T5 came out first - had rave reviews but had some connection problems. Product was discontinued / pulled.
> M5 apparently is the new version that had the connection problems resolved...


Do you remember where you read that ? MPOW said on Amazon it was just a name change, seemed odd...Anyway I have the M5 and don't remember having any connection issues. They're pretty good but I rarely use them now that I have the Echo Buds.


----------



## SilverEars

voicemaster said:


> The blon does scale well with better amping. Using my liquid carbon, the blon's bass becomes tighter thus making the mid and highs clearer.
> Oh and the T1X case allows using regular size tips without obstructing the charging port. It is small things like this that most often get overlooked and can be annoying.


This is the case with dynamic drivers, which is why I'm not expecting SQ out of TWS.  Maybe BA will be fine, but not into BA timbre all that much lately.


----------



## vurtomatic

San Man said:


> My L2P arrived and is sitting in my mailbox.  Quick delivery time indeed



How long did it take? Did it have tracking? Mine just shipped.


----------



## wksoh (Nov 26, 2019)

d3myz said:


> I can vouch for this, i'm on my 2nd and soon to be 3rd pair from MPOW. hopefully this time the send me the M5.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Looks like you do have a list of very interesting TWSs that everyone is trying to compare to. Do you have a youtube channel or a webpage for me to subscribe to?
Plus your description of sound is "musician centric"...


----------



## magi44ken

Anker is working on revision 3 to fix the hiss issue. If you contact they might send the new one without sending your back. One if member here got that offer.



deadguy99 said:


> I found the acoustic far worse than piano and the bottom right uh vocal I believe, I’ve always been super sensitive to lower treble always sounding too loud and makes me squint while listening to certain headphones, I’ve always love Sennheiser because I’ve never had a headphone by them with that quality. And as far as the static pop sound, I bought mine directly through the Anker seller through amazon so it’s either all models doing it and some don’t notice or it’s some kind of lottery as I would of expected direct from the manufacturer would only be he updated non glitchy sounding ones as they stated it was a fixed problem, so I dunno what’s going on over there. If only the Sennheiser true wireless has better battery life I bet I’d be more to my liking.


----------



## DigDub

webvan said:


> Do you remember where you read that ? MPOW said on Amazon it was just a name change, seemed odd...Anyway I have the M5 and don't remember having any connection issues. They're pretty good but I rarely use them now that I have the Echo Buds.


The first version of the mpow t5 had poor connection and no volume control, and came in a white box if I'm not wrong. The second version has volume control and a stronger connection, but a shorter battery life, and came in a red box. The latest version is M5 which I think is just a rename of the second version T5.


----------



## San Man

vurtomatic said:


> How long did it take? Did it have tracking? Mine just shipped.



3 or 4 from order to delivery.   Tracking number on the package but they didn't post that on the delivery screen on their website


----------



## kl884347

The Fiil TX1s are $50 at Amazon. Is this the usual price or is this a good deal? I tried looking up 3xcamel and wasn''t seeing the history.


----------



## hifi80sman

d3myz said:


> Damn @hifi80sman, I hope you know a good doctor. I'm going to need some therapy after my wife leaves me. At least i'll have some nice Wireless audio equipment.
> 
> I couldn't resist. Can't Stop?, Won't Stop?
> 
> https://slickdeals.net/f/13621816-sony-wh-1000xm3-over-ear-wireless-noise-canceling-headphones-used-like-new-black-191-free-shipping-amazon-warehouse?from_da_id=71889775&sdxt01=2019-11-25+12:28:22&sdxt07=0&utm_source=dealalerts&utm_medium=email&utm_term=13621816&utm_content=316&utm_campaign=71889775&p=132354460&src=da_si_v2_71889775#post132354460


Nice! That's a great deal!  I like the bass-focused sound on those, which work quite well for the gym and obviously travel.  Did you try the MW07 original version?  Battery life is not great, but if you have a rotation, it probably doesn't matter.  They are on sale for $149 now at Best Buy.


----------



## San Man

d3myz said:


> Damn @hifi80sman, I hope you know a good doctor. I'm going to need some therapy after my wife leaves me. At least i'll have some nice Wireless audio equipment.
> 
> I couldn't resist. Can't Stop?, Won't Stop?
> 
> https://slickdeals.net/f/13621816-sony-wh-1000xm3-over-ear-wireless-noise-canceling-headphones-used-like-new-black-191-free-shipping-amazon-warehouse?from_da_id=71889775&sdxt01=2019-11-25+12:28:22&sdxt07=0&utm_source=dealalerts&utm_medium=email&utm_term=13621816&utm_content=316&utm_campaign=71889775&p=132354460&src=da_si_v2_71889775#post132354460



Damn you, just ordered a pair


----------



## bronco1015

bronco1015 said:


> A buddy texted me a link for these, anyone heard of them? The case has a bigger battery than my phone lol.
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/dp/B07TVWH5C3/ref=tsm_1_tp_tc


 well, got these friday, and,...you know that sound you hear from loudspeakers at a pool when your head's under water while your Swimming? That's how these sounded...next!


----------



## bronco1015

deadguy99 said:


> I will if I don’t like the l2p just to see if anything important was truly improved on, my iem of choice for years has been the gr07bass edition so anything similar to that sound sig is what I’m lookin for. The mavin airx doesn’t sound anything like them, but I only use them at work in a loud factory so the fact that they have a warm and slightly forward midrange and decent bass and treble with nothing really standing out as bad about them, which isn’t something I can say about a lot of more expensive headphones, so ya they may sound kinda cheap(I don’t know I’ve never bought a cheap iem in my life) but for a Bluetooth earbud I think they hit most of the important features for me


I hear ya, honestly i'm pretty forgiving when it comes to BT in a lot of ways, but this pair of XR's were really just that bad.


----------



## Uncle00Jesse

Hate to break the mold here but I’m not super impressed with the L2Ps I got from Amazon yesterday. Thought they fixed the hiss by now but it’s definitely there and noticeable. In terms of sound, I wasn’t expecting these to be this bright. Not sure how a lot of you are jamming on the Piano eq... it’s really shrill and peaky to my ears. The best for me so far is the custom eq and the Soundcore signature. I can say the bass is really good, lots of texture for a TW. But on the whole I much prefer the Sony XM3 sound wise when I had them. Ashamed to say it but may even prefer the sound sig of the AirPod pros to these as well. Back to drawing board for me


----------



## d3myz

magi44ken said:


> Anker is working on revision 3 to fix the hiss issue. If you contact they might send the new one without sending your back. One if member here got that offer.


I can confirm. my previous post.


----------



## d3myz

wksoh said:


> Looks like you do have a list of very interesting TWS's that everyone is trying to compare. Do you have a youtube channel or a webpage for me to subscribe to?
> Plus your description of sound is "musician centric"...


Thanks, man. I appreciate that. There are guys on here much better with their impression than me, but I try.  unfortunately I don't have a youtube or site. Just head-fi.


----------



## bronco1015 (Nov 26, 2019)

deadguy99 said:


> After spending the weekend with the l2p I’m sending it back, on the whole it’s a great earphone with some small caveats, the fit was great and they felt nearly weightless, the connection strength was great as well as battery life. On to the not so great is the sound, with almost every eq setting the lower minds have such a recessed/sucked in feeling it’s uncomfortable to listen do, piano was the only acceptable one which did sound very good overall but just a hair too bright for me to listen to for 8 hours a day at work. The kicker that’s making me send them back isn’t the hiss(which seems like something most companies solved from early BA development) which I could live with, it was this awful static sound that just kept happening every 30 seconds to an hour or so at complete random it seemed, ive had it happen every 20-30 seconds back to back and then not hear it for an hour. If they can fix these electronics issues and add a fully customizable eq I would buy the next iteration in a heart beat.


I found with mine for the first couple days once i found an EQ setting i liked, i still had to much bass. But after leaving it on that setting, and putting them in the case twice, they've not been that bloaty at all. i'd say you got a dud in regards to the static, not seen it mentioned anywhere FWIW. having just said that, i can replicate i think at least part of your issue. if i turn them up to 65-70% i can hear a slight pop on the right bud. It seems secondary to the music. E.G. not hearing distortion, and not hearing it in rhythm with the music in any regard, but yeah. noticed it twice in a few mins. i've had mine quite low because they've been loud out of the box. And when i have them higher i do notice a mor than usual hiss. I say mor than usual, because i think all TWS have a slight hiss imo. never had a pair where it's been a deal breaker, my brain has always processed it like a non distracting background sound. i have had headphones where it's been problematic however. Final D8000, Focal Elear some iems from sony etc. Looks like i'll be contacting anker for a revision pair.


----------



## d3myz

kl884347 said:


> The Fiil TX1s are $50 at Amazon. Is this the usual price or is this a good deal? I tried looking up 3xcamel and wasn't seeing the history.


I just caved and bought them under the assumption I'd send them back if i didn't like them. So far I like them, but I don't know if I can justify keeping them after buying the sony's and another pair of L2pro's. if you like the Tevi, you'll like these. they have really excellent highs, the mids are good not great, bass is tight and punchy, not super prominent, but probably plenty for those who don't like a bass heavy sound signature. I just a/b tested them vs. the ssk bt-03. the SSK stomps them.   I forgot how much I love these. much wider soundstage, thicker mids, better bass, not quite as bright highs, still very detailed.


----------



## d3myz

Uncle00Jesse said:


> Hate to break the mold here but I’m not super impressed with the L2Ps I got from Amazon yesterday. Thought they fixed the hiss by now but it’s definitely there and noticeable. In terms of sound, I wasn’t expecting these to be this bright. Not sure how a lot of you are jamming on the Piano eq... it’s really shrill and peaky to my ears. The best for me so far is the custom eq and the Soundcore signature. I can say the bass is really good, lots of texture for a TW. But on the whole I much prefer the Sony XM3 sound wise when I had them. Ashamed to say it but may even prefer the sound sig of the AirPod pros to these as well. Back to drawing board for me


Are you on firmware 1.15? 

Stay tuned. I've had two versions of the L2pro's so far, 1st pair I have are super bass heavy. My revision 2's have better highs and mids more clarity less thing, reduced bass and I can actually used Flat and Sig. Sound. before it was way to bass heavy for me. Also, i use the JVC spiral dots, they really help with mids and highs that sound sibilant. Neither pair I've had hissed, 1st pair popped when i'd play/pause. revision three will be here in a couple weeks. If you e-mail anker they will send you a rev. 3. you may even get to keep your current set.


----------



## d3myz (Nov 26, 2019)

hifi80sman said:


> Nice! That's a great deal!  I like the bass-focused sound on those, which work quite well for the gym and obviously travel.  Did you try the MW07 original version?  Battery life is not great, but if you have a rotation, it probably doesn't matter.  They are on sale for $149 now at Best Buy.


What are you trying to do to me, man?  Wow, that's a great price. I hear a lot of people talk crap on them for their poor battery and compatibility. I'm assuming these don't do AAC either? how are they with an iphone? I guess i can send my 2nd pair of L2pro's back 

You remember when we were growing up, they used to called drug dealers "pushers"? that's you. A filthy gear pusher.


----------



## d3myz (Nov 26, 2019)

Little update on my impressions of the FiiL T1x. I don't know why I left out the SSK/Anbes 359 in my comparison. I listened to a couple tracks with the T1X and then the SSK's. I felt like Moses coming out of the desert of thin mids and rolled off bass. If you own the SSK, it's just absolutely Stomps the T1X. It sound is so full. I use the JVC spiral dots with them and it really brings out the highs and high mids. The soundstage is def. much wider and the bass is perfect. But again. If you like the colder sound of the Tevi, Bowmaker etc. You will really like the T1X. In my opinion it's a better version of both. it's high detail are really impressive and it has better bass then both. It's been a month or so since i've heard either, so I'm just pulling a Gamesky here.  and talking about gear I no longer have. LOL.


----------



## magi44ken

Hi,

Anker confirm that the Liberty 2 Pro it support the Qualcomm True Stereo Plus.

Have anyone try pairing with Qualcomm 855, 845 phone? How is the connection compare to the regular Qualcomm True Stereo?


----------



## voicemaster

d3myz said:


> Little update on my impressions of the FiiL T1x. I don't know why I left out the SSK/Anbes 359 in my comparison. I listened to a couple tracks with the T1X and then the SSK's. I felt like Moses coming out of the desert of thin mids and rolled off bass. If you own the SSK, it's just absolutely Stomps the T1X. It sound is so full. I use the JVC spiral dots with them and it really brings out the highs and high mids. The soundstage is def. much wider and the bass is perfect. But again. If you like the colder sound of the Tevi, Bowmaker etc. You will really like the T1X. In my opinion it's a better version of both. it's high detail are really impressive and it has better bass then both. It's been a month or so since i've heard either, so I'm just pulling a Gamesky here.  and talking about gear I no longer have. LOL.



Those ssk are freaking hard to find tho.


----------



## bronco1015

magi44ken said:


> Hi,
> 
> Anker confirm that the Liberty 2 Pro it support the Qualcomm True Stereo Plus.
> 
> Have anyone try pairing with Qualcomm 855, 845 phone? How is the connection compare to the regular Qualcomm True Stereo?


Both my phones have snapdragon 845, this feature works perfectly with both. When i pair a compatible product, E.G. L2P, lypertek Tevi, Plantronics BAckbeat pro 5100, i'd pair the first one i saw, E.G. L2pL then when it paired i got a prompt on both phones, asking if i also wanted to pair the other bud E.g. L2pr. once i confirmed, regardless of which phone i'm using, i can put one back in the case, the music stops briefly, then resumes playing in mono. I have the lG V40 and Xiaomi miMix 2S


----------



## d3myz

voicemaster said:


> Those ssk are freaking hard to find tho.


They are. I got lucky and have 2 pair of Anbes 359's and a pair of the SSK's. Got the SSK's on amazon for $20. Here's some, but they are way overpriced. I've found some in the Phillipines, Amazon AE (united arab emirates) and a couple from some obscure sites in China. There are a few Kissral's on ebay as well. Kissral R18 that one is $25. Can't beat that.


----------



## d3myz

bronco1015 said:


> Both my phones have snapdragon 845, this feature works perfectly with both. When i pair a compatible product, E.G. L2P, lypertek Tevi, Plantronics BAckbeat pro 5100, i'd pair the first one i saw, E.G. L2pL then when it paired i got a prompt on both phones, asking if i also wanted to pair the other bud E.g. L2pr. once i confirmed, regardless of which phone i'm using, i can put one back in the case, the music stops briefly, then resumes playing in mono. I have the lG V40 and Xiaomi miMix 2S


That's Awesome! thanks for testing that out.


----------



## magi44ken (Nov 26, 2019)

bronco1015 said:


> Both my phones have snapdragon 845, this feature works perfectly with both. When i pair a compatible product, E.G. L2P, lypertek Tevi, Plantronics BAckbeat pro 5100, i'd pair the first one i saw, E.G. L2pL then when it paired i got a prompt on both phones, asking if i also wanted to pair the other bud E.g. L2pr. once i confirmed, regardless of which phone i'm using, i can put one back in the case, the music stops briefly, then resumes playing in mono. I have the lG V40 and Xiaomi miMix 2S



That's sounds awesome. Thank you for spending the time to test it.

This might  be the perfect TWS iem for me since it have a good microphone that's comparable to AirPod Pro and long 7 plus battery life.

Now I just hope revision 3 fix the hiss and not too sound signature is too bright for me.


----------



## wksoh

voicemaster said:


> Those ssk are freaking hard to find tho.





webvan said:


> Do you remember where you read that ? MPOW said on Amazon it was just a name change, seemed odd...Anyway I have the M5 and don't remember having any connection issues. They're pretty good but I rarely use them now that I have the Echo Buds.


----------



## wksoh

d3myz said:


> They are. I got lucky and have 2 pair of Anbes 359's and a pair of the SSK's. Got the SSK's on amazon for $20. Here's some, but they are way overpriced. I've found some in the Phillipines, Amazon AE (united arab emirates) and a couple from some obscure sites in China. There are a few Kissral's on ebay as well. Kissral R18 that one is $25. Can't beat that.


Awww.. I had the SSK for $20 in my Amazon cart a couple weeks ago. It was gone when I tried to purchase.


----------



## twice2

Hi guys, I have the MW07 Go and the Melomania. Is it worth it to try out the L2P? I also heard that the Lypertek Tevis are playing above their price range.


----------



## hifi80sman

d3myz said:


> What are you trying to do to me, man?  Wow, that's a great price. I hear a lot of people talk crap on them for their poor battery and compatibility. I'm assuming these don't do AAC either? how are they with an iphone? I guess i can send my 2nd pair of L2pro's back
> 
> You remember when we were growing up, they used to called drug dealers "pushers"? that's you. A filthy gear pusher.


They don't advertise AAC, but the originals absolutely do support AAC.


----------



## Soul_Viper

This week-end I have read so much about the anker liberty 2 pro and shanling mtw100, anyone has had the opportunity to compare both?


----------



## d3myz

hifi80sman said:


> They don't advertise AAC, but the originals absolutely do support AAC.


I hate myself. But I’ve got to know how they sound


----------



## d3myz

San Man said:


> Damn you, just ordered a pair


  Good to know I’m not the only one giving in to peer pressure. I’ve been drooling over these for a while now. I’m really excited.


----------



## FYLegend (Nov 26, 2019)

d3myz said:


> Damn @hifi80sman, I hope you know a good doctor. I'm going to need some therapy after my wife leaves me. At least i'll have some nice Wireless audio equipment.
> 
> I couldn't resist. Can't Stop?, Won't Stop?
> 
> https://slickdeals.net/f/13621816-sony-wh-1000xm3-over-ear-wireless-noise-canceling-headphones-used-like-new-black-191-free-shipping-amazon-warehouse?from_da_id=71889775&sdxt01=2019-11-25+12:28:22&sdxt07=0&utm_source=dealalerts&utm_medium=email&utm_term=13621816&utm_content=316&utm_campaign=71889775&p=132354460&src=da_si_v2_71889775#post132354460


Meanwhile in Canada... 350 new! I remember when I got my 1000X for 330 on Black Friday around the time the 1000XM2 came out...

I've been considering budget options like the Dyplay Urban Traveller 2, EKSA E5 (no AptX but has ANC) and Meizu HD60 (no ANC but has AptX).

Any brands carrying the UFO TWS with AptX? (aside from purchasing directly from Alibaba OEM)


----------



## Soul_Viper

twice2 said:


> Hi guys, I have the MW07 Go and the Melomania. Is it worth it to try out the L2P? I also heard that the Lypertek Tevis are playing above their price range.



Never heard before about this Lypertek Tevis, how good are supposed to be?


----------



## ukbiker (Nov 26, 2019)

Hi,
First of all I really enjoy this thread! Thanks to all for the great suggestions. I received my MPOW M5 a few days ago and am really loving them
I also wanted to buy the UFO and I tried the following but found certain music very muddled in the midrange (they have been returned now to amazon):

t.ly/vG6ZY

So I purchased the SSK from Amazon Spain.  I know...I paid way over the odds but hopefully they will be great based on the suggestions here:

t.ly/ldBqV

I think someone mentioned on here that the MPOWs might work better on a non custom rom/rooted phone. Would you suggest resetting my s7 Edge to stock rom for better audio?

Thanks in advance!


----------



## georgelai57 (Nov 26, 2019)

My TWS journey (iPhone XR & Apple Music):
1. Aviot TE-D01g: Sold (I just hate the shape of the charging box)
2. Bose Soundsport Free: Sold (left earbud cuts out too frequently and they are heavy)
3. JadeAudio EW1: Gave to my daughter
4. Whizzer WA11: Sill in use for non-critical listening
5. Sabbat E12: Sold (doesn’t fit well, hurts my outer ear)
6. Sony WF-1000XM3: Still in use for when I really want to hear music.
7. Mifo O2: Sold (same reason as #5)
8. 1more Stylish: Sold (just can’t get it to fit well)
9. Tevi: Sold (I fall asleep listening to them)
10. Anomoibuds Capsule: Sold (doesn’t sit well in my ears)
11. SSK BT03: Sold (buds are too small and I hate the toy look)
12. QCY QS1: Gave to wife
13. AirPods Pro: my next buy for sure.

I don’t comment on SQ as there are enough comments by more informed people than me. My own view is that if you really like a song, it doesn’t matter if it comes out of a (cheap) Clock Radio.


----------



## SilverEars (Nov 26, 2019)

magi44ken said:


> Hi,
> 
> Anker confirm that the Liberty 2 Pro it support the Qualcomm True Stereo Plus.
> 
> Have anyone try pairing with Qualcomm 855, 845 phone? How is the connection compare to the regular Qualcomm True Stereo?


With AirPods Pro, I realized Qualcomm Tue Stereo Plus isn't necessary.  I'm pretty sure Apple doesn't use that chip, yet left and right earpieces connect independently on my Android.  APP does everything well and don't look like a bluetooth headset from the early 2000s.


----------



## duo8

SilverEars said:


> With AirPods Pro, I realized Qualcomm Tue Stereo Plus isn't necessary.  I'm pretty sure Apple doesn't use that chip, yet left and right earpieces connect independently on my Android.  APP does everything well and don't look like a bluetooth headset from the early 2000s.


They use the same connection concept, just different branding and implementation.


----------



## RickInHouston

Anyone have any luck with different inserts for Liberty 2 Pro?  I love'em but can't keep them in my ear.

Looking for foam inserts they would accept, or the Christmas Tree shaped silicone...

I think the wings don't work for my ear, as well...

- RickIn Houston


----------



## cacio

ukbiker said:


> I think someone mentioned on here that the MPOWs might work better on a non custom rom/rooted phone. Would you suggest resetting my s7 Edge to stock rom for better audio?
> 
> Thanks in advance!



I've have said that "SBC" Headphones would work better on custom roms which do have SBC Dual Channel / SBC HD since it doubles the bandwidth. So SBC HD gets comparable to aptX and also beats AAC.

the MPOWs have aptX so nothing to gain or lose with the Smartphone Firmware in this case


----------



## tyota

So far, the Sennheiser Momentums are the best sounding wireless IEMs I've heard. Not mind blowing, but pretty dang good. Impressed by the comfort  and battery life. Only comparing them to Airpods, Jabras and Bose


----------



## SoundChoice

baskingshark said:


> Hi friends, would like to seek your advise. One of my family members wants a true wireless earbud for Christmas.
> She prefers something shaped like airpods, listens to a variety of genres. Budget ~ $100 - 150 USD.
> I only use the TRN BT20 but she doesn't like the form factor.
> 
> Any recommendations? Thanks in advance!!


Spent a day researching and Anker Liberty 2 Pro (L2P) seems to get consistently good reviews for about your price range.


----------



## Dcell7

Fiio coming with a TRN BT20 like device

https://www.fiio.com/utws1


----------



## georgelai57

New software for Sony WF-1000XM3 just released. Includes volume controls.


----------



## BobJS

d3myz said:


> I just caved and bought them under the assumption I'd send them back if i didn't like them. So far I like them, but I don't know if I can justify keeping them after buying the sony's and another pair of L2pro's. if you like the Tevi, you'll like these. they have really excellent highs, the mids are good not great, bass is tight and punchy, not super prominent, but probably plenty for those who don't like a bass heavy sound signature. I just a/b tested them vs. the ssk bt-03. the SSK stomps them.   I forgot how much I love these. much wider soundstage, thicker mids, better bass, not quite as bright highs, still very detailed.



You know you have the illness when you buy more than 1 pair of the same thing.  I should know

2 mw07s
1 mw07+
2 ES100s


----------



## DigDub

georgelai57 said:


> New software for Sony WF-1000XM3 just released. Includes volume controls.


This makes it perfect!!


----------



## duo8

Dcell7 said:


> Fiio coming with a TRN BT20 like device
> 
> https://www.fiio.com/utws1


Cool, hope it doesn't hiss like TRN's BT stuff.


----------



## georgelai57

DigDub said:


> This makes it perfect!!


Don’t be so happy yet. To use Volume Controls you have to dedicate one of the earbuds to it, sacrificing that earbud’s existing functions. What Sony giveth, Sony taketh ...


----------



## webvan

Yes, unlike what I thought at first when I saw that info they have NOT added a new tap gesture like double or triple tap. I'd rather have pause and next on the earbuds as it's easy enough to change the volume with the keys on your phone, well easier at least


----------



## gibletzor (Nov 26, 2019)

I got my Tranya Rimor's in the mail yesterday.  Just got a chance to try them out this morning.  My initial impressions are pretty positive.  I haven't done an A-B test with the B530s yet, but my initial impressions from memory are that these are just slightly below them as far as sound quality goes.  The bass is a little stronger, but the mids and highs aren't as clear.  That said they still sound great to me.  This is with medium Auvio tips.  I wasn't a fan of the stock tips.  The B530s are still probably my 2nd favorite TWS for sound quality behind the Liberty 2 Pros.  The B530s are more comfortable as well.  One thing I love about the B530s is how they're almost perfectly rounded to fit the cup right outside your ear canal.  It's an uncannily perfect fit for my ears at least.  These have an odd hump behind the nozzle that makes them not fit as well.  They're not uncomfortable by any means, just not AS comfortable.   

I don't see why Tranya is pricing these so high though.  There's nothing overly special about them.  If they were in the same price range as the B530 and Mpow T5 they would make more sense.  I guess they're banking on people seeing that Environmental Noise Cancelling and thinking it's something special.  As far as I can tell it only applies to the microphones for phone calls.

Edit:  One of the first things I do with a new set of headphones is set up a Samsung Adapt Sound profile for them.  They did sound quite blah on the high end for me with the stock tips and no Adapt Sound.


----------



## dweaver (Nov 26, 2019)

baskingshark said:


> Hi friends, would like to seek your advise. One of my family members wants a true wireless earbud for Christmas.
> She prefers something shaped like airpods, listens to a variety of genres. Budget ~ $100 - 150 USD.
> I only use the TRN BT20 but she doesn't like the form factor.
> 
> Any recommendations? Thanks in advance!!


If she likes the airpod form factor check out the Liberty Air 2. They get great reviews and are a similar design.


----------



## GloriousGenMacArthur

Looking at wireless ear buds as my Bose sound sports are dying by inches. I have plenty of great IEMs and cans for detailed listening. I mainly am looking for a pair for phone calls while at the grocery or similar and music at the gym. 
I run/cycle and lift. So solid fit, sweat resistance are primary necessities. Microphone and _then _music reproduction quality. 

I've read through here a bit and on other online searches and it seems that the Mpow and QCY TS1 are reviewed favorably. There also is the JLab Audio JBuds from Best Buy for Black Friday.

My question is: Out of the three they range from $15 (QCY), $30 (JLab), or $40 (MPow). Is there an appreciable difference in the sound/microphone quality of these to justify spending more than the $15?

Or is there really a huge enough difference for the higher cost, mainstream brands like B&O, Jabras or Senns? Especially for this use case.


----------



## gibletzor

GloriousGenMacArthur said:


> Looking at wireless ear buds as my Bose sound sports are dying by inches. I have plenty of great IEMs and cans for detailed listening. I mainly am looking for a pair for phone calls while at the grocery or similar and music at the gym.
> I run/cycle and lift. So solid fit, sweat resistance are primary necessities. Microphone and _then _music reproduction quality.
> 
> I've read through here a bit and on other online searches and it seems that the Mpow and QCY TS1 are reviewed favorably. There also is the JLab Audio JBuds from Best Buy for Black Friday.
> ...



If you want something with great sound quality and great phone call quality get the Tranya B530.  They're $60 but have a $15 off coupon on Amazon right now.  For $45 it would be hard to do better!


----------



## magi44ken

SilverEars said:


> With AirPods Pro, I realized Qualcomm Tue Stereo Plus isn't necessary.  I'm pretty sure Apple doesn't use that chip, yet left and right earpieces connect independently on my Android.  APP does everything well and don't look like a bluetooth headset from the early 2000s.



Nice to know that it also works with Android phone. 

However I assume APP still uses master and slave for stereo mode where Qualcomm Tue Stereo Plus connect directly to the phone for both left and right buds. This resulted in lower latency and battery life to the master bud.


----------



## duo8

magi44ken said:


> Nice to know that it also works with Android phone.
> 
> However I assume APP still uses master and slave for stereo mode where Qualcomm Tue Stereo Plus connect directly to the phone for both left and right buds. This resulted in lower latency and battery life to the master bud.


Airpods since the first one have already used direct L/R connections.


----------



## magi44ken

duo8 said:


> Airpods since the first one have already used direct L/R connections.



I did not know that. Does it also works on Android phone with direct L/R connection?

Right now I'm looking for a good microphone and direct L/R connection as my next TWS.


----------



## wksoh (Nov 26, 2019)

FYLegend said:


> Meanwhile in Canada... 350 new! I remember when I got my 1000X for 330 on Black Friday around the time the 1000XM2 came out...
> 
> I've been considering budget options like the Dyplay Urban Traveller 2, EKSA E5 (no AptX but has ANC) and Meizu HD60 (no ANC but has AptX).
> 
> Any brands carrying the UFO TWS with AptX? (aside from purchasing directly from Alibaba OEM)


Not all UFOs are the same... they only look the same.

I have a Letscom BE30 that sounds shouty with thin sounding mids and not much bass.
Enter the SSK BT03 - sounds many levels better. The only one advertised as 10mm driver.  it has rich sounding mid and high is detailed I think near my limit ( any higher I will think acoustic guitars will start to pierce). Has low subsonic bass that interferes little with mid.

I'm not sure about Kissral18 - it doesn't advertize as 10mm driver.


----------



## cwill

wksoh said:


> Not all UFOs are the same... they only look the same.
> 
> I have a Letscom BE30 that sound shouty with thin sounding mids and not much bass.
> Enter the SSK BT03 - sounds many levels better. The only one advertised as 10mm driver.  it has rich sounding mid and high is detailed I think near my limit ( any higher I will think acoustic guitars will start to pierce). Has low subsonic bass that interferes little with mid.
> ...


This is absolutely correct. I bought the R18 based on all the UFO hype. While they sound fantastically detailed and clear, they are severely lacking in the low end. Then came the SSK's...what a difference.


----------



## hifi80sman

d3myz said:


> I hate myself. But I’ve got to know how they sound


Thing is, they look absolutely beautiful.  Story time.  I went to Hawaii for vacation and took them with me to use poolside.  I'd listen and relax for 1.5 to 2 hours, jump in the pool, jump out of the pool, apply sunscreen, resume listening.  Walk around with those things in, fill up my soda cup, walk back to lounger, proceed to lounge.  Repeat.


----------



## Nuke142 (Nov 26, 2019)

Nuke142 said:


> New Alpha & Delta Elite for $58 minus $11 with code _elite11_ till 13rd
> https://www.alphandelta.com/product-page/alpha-delta-elite
> Should give a try?
> APTX, Qualcomm's True Wireless Plus, 6mm dynamic driver, QCC3026, type-c


Got it. No love. My Dudios Zeus+ (not TWS) have better sound.
No quality, no crisp, no scene. 100% garbage.


----------



## wksoh (Nov 26, 2019)

d3myz said:


> Little update on my impressions of the FiiL T1x. I don't know why I left out the SSK/Anbes 359 in my comparison. I listened to a couple tracks with the T1X and then the SSK's. I felt like Moses coming out of the desert of thin mids and rolled off bass. If you own the SSK, it's just absolutely Stomps the T1X. It sound is so full. I use the JVC spiral dots with them and it really brings out the highs and high mids. The soundstage is def. much wider and the bass is perfect. But again. If you like the colder sound of the Tevi, Bowmaker etc. You will really like the T1X. In my opinion it's a better version of both. it's high detail are really impressive and it has better bass then both. It's been a month or so since i've heard either, so I'm just pulling a Gamesky here.  and talking about gear I no longer have. LOL.



Hehe,.. loved your description about moses coming out of desert of thin mids... .  I have this dreaded feeling whenever I buy new headphones.
The thin mid headphones tend to get a lot of 5 stars....   Luckily Scarbir . com and your reviews are spot on for me.


----------



## Grayson73

SoundChoice said:


> I am starting to discover more about the TWS BT world. I stumbled across this which may help.
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/goi...re-we-there-yet.861024/page-865#post-15229127
> 
> It seems the only advantage of QCY QS2 over QS1 is the battery charge.
> ...



Sold out currently, but here is the AE link.  https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33005202947.html


----------



## CocaCola15

RickInHouston said:


> Anyone have any luck with different inserts for Liberty 2 Pro?  I love'em but can't keep them in my ear.
> 
> Looking for foam inserts they would accept, or the Christmas Tree shaped silicone...
> 
> ...


I favor the Comply Smartcore Audio Pro foam tips with the L2P. I don't even use the wings, they bother me, and get a great, stable seal. Of course, you have to roll them up and let them expand, but I also think they improve the sound. Not cheap, $22 for 3 pair. But worth it to me.


----------



## gibletzor

RickInHouston said:


> Anyone have any luck with different inserts for Liberty 2 Pro?  I love'em but can't keep them in my ear.
> 
> Looking for foam inserts they would accept, or the Christmas Tree shaped silicone...
> 
> ...


I've been using JVC Spiral Dots with the small wings with mine.


----------



## vurtomatic

gibletzor said:


> I've been using JVC Spiral Dots with the small wings with mine.



I'm doing the same, I like the sound with the Spiral Dots.


----------



## Timastyle

If I'm looking for a TWS with the SQ and signature of the SSK and effective transparency mode, which ones should I be looking at?


----------



## Cretz42

Anyone want to trade a Tranya B530 for a Rimor set that I have straight-up?


----------



## d3myz

BobJS said:


> You know you have the illness when you buy more than 1 pair of the same thing.  I should know
> 
> 2 mw07s
> 1 mw07+
> 2 ES100s


I'm with you.


----------



## d3myz

Cretz42 said:


> Anyone want to trade a Tranya B530 for a Rimor set that I have straight-up?


Unless you plan to do some serious tuning to the Rimor, i'd keep the B530. The stock sound isn't great.


----------



## d3myz (Nov 26, 2019)

gibletzor said:


> I got my Tranya Rimor's in the mail yesterday.  Just got a chance to try them out this morning.  My initial impressions are pretty positive.  I haven't done an A-B test with the B530s yet, but my initial impressions from memory are that these are just slightly below them as far as sound quality goes.  The bass is a little stronger, but the mids and highs aren't as clear.  That said they still sound great to me.  This is with medium Auvio tips.  I wasn't a fan of the stock tips.  The B530s are still probably my 2nd favorite TWS for sound quality behind the Liberty 2 Pros.  The B530s are more comfortable as well.  One thing I love about the B530s is how they're almost perfectly rounded to fit the cup right outside your ear canal.  It's an uncannily perfect fit for my ears at least.  These have an odd hump behind the nozzle that makes them not fit as well.  They're not uncomfortable by any means, just not AS comfortable.
> 
> I don't see why Tranya is pricing these so high though.  There's nothing overly special about them.  If they were in the same price range as the B530 and Mpow T5 they would make more sense.  I guess they're banking on people seeing that Environmental Noise Cancelling and thinking it's something special.  As far as I can tell it only applies to the microphones for phone calls.
> 
> Edit:  One of the first things I do with a new set of headphones is set up a Samsung Adapt Sound profile for them.  They did sound quite blah on the high end for me with the stock tips and no Adapt Sound.


I'd like to hear your impressions of the Rimor without the Samsung Adapt Sound profile on. I tried for days to like them via Iphone no eq'ing. The bulbs didn't fit great in my ears and no matter what tips I used, I didn't feel like I was getting a great fit like the B503's. Also, If you have an SSK or Anbes 359, do an A/B test an prepare to be shocked. I will say that the drivers in the Rimor are def. the same if not better quality than the B503's they have really excellent textured bass,but there's just not much of it. I also found them really responsive and the soundstage is great.


----------



## d3myz

hifi80sman said:


> Thing is, they look absolutely beautiful.  Story time.  I went to Hawaii for vacation and took them with me to use poolside.  I'd listen and relax for 1.5 to 2 hours, jump in the pool, jump out of the pool, apply sunscreen, resume listening.  Walk around with those things in, fill up my soda cup, walk back to lounger, proceed to lounge.  Repeat.


I'm not going to lie, i'm really excited for them and that's a wonderful story.


----------



## wksoh (Nov 26, 2019)

Hi all, I received my SSK BT03 last night, here are my findings compared to what I already have:

1) Bose 700: Great bass, detailed high. slight V shaped. Was my best sounding headphone for a while. I knew what sound I was looking for - so still searching.

2) Umidig Upods:  No bass, not even average, Does not seal well. Have to turn off blue tooth so the buds can pair. Giving away soon,

3) Letscom ST-BE30: Thin mids, shouty highs, no bass. But good seal.

4) MPOW M5:
The mids are a tad less recessed than Bose 700. Cheap as it may be, the m5 has replaced the Bose 700 as my favourite sound.  Although there are reports that the M5 highs are rolled off - the sound signature is exactly what I'm looking for (they sound thick which I like) - the metal string Acoustic guitars do not thin out like they do with most earphones that I've tried. Snare drums and rim shots sounded full bodied and not come off like toys (some KZ earphones my audiophile friends raved about fall into this category--like toys).  The bass is excellent,.. smooth like how a bass guitarist would touch the strings. BTW when a guitarist touch the string it should sound like touching and not plucking nor slapping - if you know what i mean.

5) SSK-BT03:
Enter the SSK BT03.... it's Fabulous...
The M5 mids sounded thicker. The SSK sounded clearer.
The SSK bass seems to be louder, have more impact, tightness or slam.
At first listen - I thought Mpow M5 has met it's match... I'd describe the SSK as the M5 on bass steroids. And would pick the SSK as my new #1
But after a few rounds of listening, I finally figured it out - the SSK sounds great for electronic music and movies - with that impactful bass.
When I played instrumental band music on ssk- it sounded like the bass guitarist has gone rogue - turning up his bass vol by 10% and heavily plucking the strings.
Thus music with running bass on M5 sounds smooth while there is some attack / staccato effect on SSK BT03.

For reasons above my personal preference goes to MPOW M5 due to the type of instrumental music I listen to.
If you prefer deeper, more impactful / tight bass - SSK BT03 is better than M5. If you don't mind that rogue bass guitarist doing his heavy stuff in there.

Hope it helps.. I'm still trying to stay low budget


----------



## Cretz42

d3myz said:


> Unless you plan to do some serious tuning to the Rimor, i'd keep the B530. The stock sound isn't great.



You have my offer flipped. It's the Rimor that I am offering for someone's B530.


----------



## assassin10000

Dcell7 said:


> Fiio coming with a TRN BT20 like device
> 
> https://www.fiio.com/utws1



Cool. Looks like a rebranded BT20S. 


But it may have some improvements, this site mentions possible volume control:
https://watchmono.com/blog-entry-10299.html


----------



## mattedialdoc

d3myz said:


> Unless you plan to do some serious tuning to the Rimor, i'd keep the B530. The stock sound isn't great.



I like the the Rimor better than the B530, T1pro, and T3. Better fit for me and like the Signature. Still playing around but they are nice thus far.


----------



## chinmie

assassin10000 said:


> Cool. Looks like a rebranded BT20S.
> 
> 
> But it may have some improvements, this site mentions possible volume control:
> https://watchmono.com/blog-entry-10299.html



Looks like it would have volume controls


----------



## d3myz

Cretz42 said:


> You have my offer flipped. It's the Rimor that I am offering for someone's B530.


Oh, my bad. Why don't you just send them back and buy the B530?


----------



## d3myz

mattedialdoc said:


> I like the the Rimor better than the B530, T1pro, and T3. Better fit for me and like the Signature. Still playing around but they are nice thus far.


To each their own. I think they are the best TWS' I own for audiobooks.


----------



## mattedialdoc

d3myz said:


> To each their own. I think they are the best TWS' I own for audiobooks.



I should try audiobooks.
Yes we all have different ears don’t we. I also enjoy the all around performance of my T5, Bomaker, SSK and APP. The hissing from the L2P made that an impossible option.


----------



## SilverEars (Nov 26, 2019)

magi44ken said:


> However I assume APP still uses master and slave for stereo mode where Qualcomm Tue Stereo Plus connect directly to the phone for both left and right buds. This resulted in lower latency and battery life to the master bud.


It doesn't use master and slave.  You can use either L or R earpiece at a time with the other in the case.  So, there is no master and slave thing going on.  So my point is that, 'True Stereo Plus' Qualcomm advertises is not necessary for each earpiece to work independently with Android phones.  APP is low latency, and I would imagine non-master and slave system would have the lower latency.


----------



## voicemaster

Lets enjoy our TWS!!


----------



## d3myz

mattedialdoc said:


> I should try audiobooks.
> Yes we all have different ears don’t we. I also enjoy the all around performance of my T5, Bomaker, SSK and APP. The hissing from the L2P made that an impossible option.


You should check out the Fiil T1x. They are a better bowmaker.


----------



## voicemaster

d3myz said:


> You should check out the Fiil T1x. They are a better bowmaker.



The T1X is a bowmaster then?


----------



## dweaver

Well have to admit I started to struggle with acoustic and piano settings on the L2P so switched to flat and have reinstalled the Neutron Player so I can control my EQ. I listen to almost all my own library no streaming so it's fine for me.

Hey Soundcore, if your reading we would all love a custom EQ...


----------



## wksoh (Dec 19, 2019)

Timastyle said:


> If I'm looking for a TWS with the SQ and signature of the SSK and effective transparency mode, which ones should I be looking at?


Mpow M5...  comes with smooother bass. deep, less impact.


Subrising said:


> Does anyone know if the older version of the Mpow T5 also supports Android 9.0? The one I'm currently looking at doesn't say if it's the newer upgraded M5 version so I'm not 100% sure if it will work.


New version has M5 written on box


Bartig said:


> I plan to, but it isn’t the highest on my priority list with so many new TWS arrivals.


Bartig = scarbir. Com   I bought 3 tws based on your recommendation. Best reviewer I ever followed!!


----------



## Timastyle

wksoh said:


> Mpow M5...  comes with smooother bass. Less deep, less impact.



Pretty sure there's no transparency mode on M5


----------



## wksoh

Timastyle said:


> Pretty sure there's no transparency mode on M5


OH sorry I missed the transparency part..


----------



## d3myz

dweaver said:


> Well have to admit I started to struggle with acoustic and piano settings on the L2P so switched to flat and have reinstalled the Neutron Player so I can control my EQ. I listen to almost all my own library no streaming so it's fine for me.
> 
> Hey Soundcore, if your reading we would all love a custom EQ...


Preach!


----------



## voicemaster

Some android phones have a built in EQ like in my oneplus7. It is not a bad EQ imho tho I would like a full 32 band EQ *wishing*.


----------



## wksoh (Nov 26, 2019)

wksoh said:


> Hi all, I received my SSK BT03 last night, here are my findings compared to what I already have:
> 
> 1) Bose 700: Great bass, detailed high. slight V shaped. Was my best sounding headphone for a while. I knew what sound I was looking for - so still searching.
> 
> ...


Day 2 with SSK bt03... It has won me over I can't decide if Mpow m5 is better. I'll have to keep both for now..


----------



## Timastyle

wksoh said:


> OH sorry I missed the transparency part..



No worries. Thought I may have missed something.


----------



## ld100

wksoh said:


> Mpow M5...  comes with smooother bass. Less deep, less impact.
> 
> New version has M5 written on box
> 
> Bartig = scarbir. Com   I bought 3 tws based on your recommendation. Best reviewer I ever followed!!




I bought three and very unhappy. I either hear things very different from him or he is really off mark in his reviews based on my experience...


----------



## wksoh (Nov 27, 2019)

ld100 said:


> I bought three and very unhappy. I either hear things very different from him or he is really off mark in his reviews based on my experience...


What did you buy that made you unhappy?

I think folks look for different sounds.
It's important that the reviewer has same "ears" as you. If the first earphone doesn't match - it means you need to look for your ideal reviewer.

From their descriptions I can identify right away that scarbir.com and d3myz probably has same ears as myself.
In my opinion - there are I think a few types of "ears":
1) The majority group (including many audiophiles) prefers sensitivity - they want to hear pin drop, hear sounds they never noticed before.
2) Some want sub sonic bass. The Monsters and Beats went that route.

To satisfy the market - V shaped sound frequencies are applied as: "Humans are intrinsically attracted to sound that are more colored than those with a flat profile. Headphones with V-shaped sound signature tend to have booming bass and sparkling treble, which makes for a more exciting listening experience." Include Bose, Sennheisers.
https://www.headphonesty.com/2017/01/v-shaped-sound-signature-mean/

3) Remaining folks and some audiophiles want thick sounding buds - tonal accuracy. For me, I want Snare drum to sound like real snares and rim shots to be full bodied. Metal string guitars should not pierce. These kinds of sound signature tend to be less exciting. It sounds even more dull when you add bass to thick sounding buds. Personally I do not judge by "how clear, cymbals, treble / bass extension",.. I look for tone, texture, feel. In other words "timbre". https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timbre

So reviewers also tend to fall into the above categories.
You need to know which sound appeals to you.

I'm not an audiophile... only a very average non pro musician.
I always try to identify type #3 and follow them....


----------



## gibletzor

d3myz said:


> I'd like to hear your impressions of the Rimor without the Samsung Adapt Sound profile on. I tried for days to like them via Iphone no eq'ing. The bulbs didn't fit great in my ears and no matter what tips I used, I didn't feel like I was getting a great fit like the B503's. Also, If you have an SSK or Anbes 359, do an A/B test an prepare to be shocked. I will say that the drivers in the Rimor are def. the same if not better quality than the B503's they have really excellent textured bass,but there's just not much of it. I also found them really responsive and the soundstage is great.



I was going to do that tonight but apparently they don't charge with the Auvio tips    They showed they were charging when I put them in there but the tips must have expanded and pushed away from the contacts.  I understand why smaller and smaller cases are a thing, but it's starting to get to the point where 3rd party tips won't work with anything.


----------



## willyk

Got the Tranya Rimor TWS yesterday.  Compared to the B530's and T5, I find them to fit my ears very well - comfortable and secure.  The SQ is superior to the other two IMO in that the highs are crisper, the mids a bit more forward and the bass is better defined.  The 10mm drivers deliver the low end in a more realistic manner - no over-hyping - but plenty of punch when the music calls for it.  I am using a new S10+ with no Adapt Sound set yet.  Everyone hears this stuff differently!

The case is a step up from the B530's - it's smaller, more sturdy with USB-C.

They still need some breaking-in, but I expect that this will only improve things.

I'll report back in a few weeks.


----------



## mattedialdoc

willyk said:


> Got the Tranya Rimor TWS yesterday.  Compared to the B530's and T5, I find them to fit my ears very well - comfortable and secure.  The SQ is superior to the other two IMO in that the highs are crisper, the mids a bit more forward and the bass is better defined.  The 10mm drivers deliver the low end in a more realistic manner - no over-hyping - but plenty of punch when the music calls for it.  I am using a new S10+ with no Adapt Sound set yet.  Everyone hears this stuff differently!
> 
> The case is a step up from the B530's - it's smaller, more sturdy with USB-C.
> 
> ...



My feeling exactly. I feel like it’s an improvement over their previous iterations.


----------



## ld100 (Nov 27, 2019)

wksoh said:


> What did you buy that made you unhappy?
> 
> I think folks look for different sounds.
> It's important that the reviewer has same "ears" as you. If the first earphone doesn't match - it means you need to look for your ideal reviewer.
> ...




Sound is subjective and everyone hears differently, but thee is a common unifier and most people know what is good and what is bad. Some like brighter sound. Some like more base. Some like more lower end. And some like clear that to others might be unpleasant. But most people can recognize good vs bad. Especially people who frequent head-fi.org.

Personally I currently have in my setup for full size headphones Sennheisers, Audezes and Focals... While I not an expert at all there is a certain quality that I need to enjoy my music. For a long time I was thinking of TW and now seemed as it is the time to try a bunch as there certainly has been an explosion of TS models on the market. Something good has to be out there, right?

So first I got Jabra's Actibe 65T and they are just ok. In terms of sound I could use them for walks. But there has to be something better and they are not the most comfortable thing out there. So after some research I purchased:

Sabbat E12 Ultra
Shanling MTW100
Mpow T5

https://www.scarbir.com/ reviews were a big factor in my purchasing decision... I know he reads here and this is not personal at all. I actually appreciate all the work and time the guy puts into it.

In my experience:

Shanling while has a great potential with mids and highs is a total let down. There is no base. I tried 30 different tips and pretty sure was able to get a good seal. They are just horrible. They are too small to stay in ears. No amount of good highs and mids can make them tolerable. It is just a total mess. My little son liked them because they were really small and cute and wanted to keep them for himself but after listening to them even he said they were bad and he does not want them. The mid and high have a great tuning but as a whole the sound reminds me of very cheap IEM that you get for free on tour bases...

Mpow T5 had a great low end and spaciness to them but they were so unclear and cheaply sounding that I found them unacceptable. Even for $50 they are just bad. You first think that they sound great the first few seconds but immediately within moments everything falls apart. Just muffled sound that is very unpleasant.

Sabbat they are not absolutely horrible if you like brighter sounds but the base is not fully there. Listening to George Michael for example you can hear that the vocal is messed up. I tried large variety of tips and they can be the somewhat pleasant but tonal accuracy as you put it is not there. Mids and low end is not coherent. I might keep them as they are not expensive but I can't say I am enjoying them. They are way more comfortable than Jabra's but the sound is not that great.

I guess I am also in your #3 category. I think 10 year old Shure's 215 will destroy any of these. I am just very surprised by the positive reviews on youtube and sites like scarbir. Do people come to expect so little from TW based on what airpods deliver?


----------



## Bartig

wksoh said:


> Mpow M5...  comes with smooother bass. Less deep, less impact.
> 
> New version has M5 written on box
> 
> Bartig = scarbir. Com   I bought 3 tws based on your recommendation. Best reviewer I ever followed!!


Whoah, thanks. <3

Meanwhile, my pile of TWS yet to review has become so big, I decided to bundle 5 true wireless earphone reviews in one single post: the Nillkin Go, Awei T6c, Baseus W01, Alwup i9 and Doss Cloudfox Freepods.


----------



## Bartig (Nov 27, 2019)

ld100 said:


> Sound is subjective and everyone hears differently, but thee is a common unifier and most people know what is good and what is bad. Some like brighter sound. Some like more base. Some like more lower end. And some like clear that to others might be unpleasant. But most people can recognize good vs bad. Especially people who frequent head-fi.org.
> 
> Personally I currently have in my setup for full size headphones Sennheisers, Audezes and Focals... While I not an expert at all there is a certain quality that I need to enjoy my music. For a long time I was thinking of TW and now seemed as it is the time to try a bunch as there certainly has been an explosion of TS models on the market. Something good has to be out there, right?
> 
> ...


Hmm, while I enjoy a thick, engaging V-shape, my personal favorites are the audio products that display the most natural sounding instruments and put through details I've not heard before. The Shanling MTW100 with Balanced Armature (to be sure, do you have this version?) personally is great for me in more acoustic genres such as jazz, blues and classical pieces. I think instrument tonality shines on these genres, with excellent separation and placement. It is less suitable for pop and dance songs perhaps, where prominent center-mids are less likely the preferred sound character. I will add this in my review.


----------



## Razornova

Looks like the promo for liberty 2 pros are over


----------



## ld100

Bartig said:


> Hmm, while I enjoy a thick, engaging V-shape, my personal favorites are the audio products that display the most natural sounding instruments and put through details I've not heard before. The Shanling MTW100 with Balanced Armature (to be sure, do you have this version?) personally is great for me in more acoustic genres such as jazz, blues and classical pieces. I think instrument tonality shines on these genres, with excellent separation and placement. It is less suitable for pop and dance songs perhaps, where prominent center-mids are less likely the preferred sound character. I will add this in my review.



Are you the scarbir reviewer? I purchased Dynamic as based on various reviews I thought it would work better for the kind of music I listen. My preferred music genres are house/dance, pop and jazz. I am not a 'basshead' but do like clean and rich lower end. While Shanlings do sound pleasant for songs that have no base at all (vocal jazz and easy listening) and have impressive tonal tuning for highs and mids any song with any amount of bass including dance, pop or rock is simply untolerable. I wonder what music do you use for testing in your reviews? My 10 year old loved Shanlings as they were too cute including the toy like case and asked if he could keep them. I gave Shanlings to him and after 30 minutes of listening he gave them back to me and he said he does not want them as he did not like how they sound. He probably listened to Michael Jackson and Depeche Mode (don't ask...). They were the perfect fit for his ears as they are tiny... I think your reviews are misleading. While Mpow T5 low end is good everything else about them is very disappointing. You did not find the sound extremely muffled and unnatural?


----------



## Bartig (Nov 27, 2019)

ld100 said:


> Are you the scarbir reviewer? I purchased Dynamic as based on various reviews I thought it would work better for the kind of music I listen. My preferred music genres are house/dance, pop and jazz. I am not a 'basshead' but do like clean and rich lower end. While Shanlings do sound pleasant for songs that have no base at all (vocal jazz and easy listening) and have impressive tonal tuning for highs and mids any song with any amount of bass including dance, pop or rock is simply untolerable. I wonder what music do you use for testing in your reviews? My 10 year old loved Shanlings as they were too cute including the toy like case and asked if he could keep them. I gave Shanlings to him and after 30 minutes of listening he gave them back to me and he said he does not want them as he did not like how they sound. He probably listened to Michael Jackson and Depeche Mode (don't ask...). They were the perfect fit for his ears as they are tiny... I think your reviews are misleading. While Mpow T5 low end is good everything else about them is very disappointing. You did not find the sound extremely muffled and unnatural?


A 10 year old listening to Depeche Mode? Awesome. 

The Shanling MTW100 with Dynamic Driver is not as good as the Balanced Armature. It's like Shanling first created the balanced armature version, and then reverse-engineered a dynamic driver to sound like the balanced armature. It doesn't work very well - the bass feels restricted and whereas I really like the tonality of the balanced armature version, the dynamic driver version feels a bit cold - artificial too.

And plain simple, no, I do not find the Mpow disappointing. I've now tested over 70 true wireless earphones and I think it's an excellent performer for its price, with a sweet soundstage. I keep testing it against newer TWS, and still think they are very good. Of course, I test TWS with other TWS side by side, not against other audio categories.


----------



## Peddler

deadguy99 said:


> Ya I’d happily buy an updated senn, also curiosity is killing me so I just purchased the mavin air xr and will get them Friday, I’ll update on any important differences from the air x after I get them, I still suggest anyone to try the mavin air x tho with comply tips as I found the hard to use actively with their silicone tips for the suction cup effect the sealed cavities create and how finicky the fit depth changes the overall sq of them. I still think they sound even better than the l2p in aptx codec




I rate the Mavin Air-X very highly. I've recently tried both the Sony WF1000XM3 and the Apple Airpods Pro and from a pure sound quality perspective I think the Marvin's are not that far behind.


----------



## d3myz

voicemaster said:


> The T1X is a bowmaster then?


Bomaker if you like the T1x, you'll probably like these.


----------



## voicemaster

d3myz said:


> Bomaker if you like the T1x, you'll probably like these.



Lol i was just joking with the word "bow maker"


----------



## facethemusic88

Bartig got the M5s and the Spunkies on point. I guess we have the same somewhat sonic preference. Thanks for the rec'd mate. 

Also, between the T1x, Rimors and Bomaker, which one should i go for?


----------



## d3myz

facethemusic88 said:


> Bartig got the M5s and the Spunkies on point. I guess we have the same somewhat sonic preference. Thanks for the rec'd mate.
> 
> Also, between the T1x, Rimors and Bomaker, which one should i go for?


I tested all 3 on an iphone xs max with no Eq'ing. The Rimor is much different then the other two. I personally like the T1x better than the Bomaker. The Rimor also has much less clarity, lots of high mids. It also has less bass and almost no sub-bass to me it sounded flat and a bit sterile. I also got it from Tranya for free. LOL. So they didn't pay me to say that.  There are a couple guys on here who just got the Rimor and said they sounded good with Samsung's audio eq'ing applied, but I don't know if they have the T1x or Bomaker to compare to.


----------



## mattedialdoc

d3myz said:


> I tested all 3 on an iphone xs max with no Eq'ing. The Rimor is much different then the other two. I personally like the T1x better than the Bomaker. The Rimor also has much less clarity, lots of high mids. It also has less bass and almost no sub-bass to me it sounded flat and a bit sterile. I also got it from Tranya for free. LOL. So they didn't pay me to say that.  There are a couple guys on here who just got the Rimor and said they sounded good with Samsung's audio eq'ing applied, but I don't know if they have the T1x or Bomaker to compare to.



Also got comped the Rimor so ditto. And I have the Bomaker. And no EQ applies. They are nice.


----------



## ld100

Bartig said:


> A 10 year old listening to Depeche Mode? Awesome.
> 
> The Shanling MTW100 with Dynamic Driver is not as good as the Balanced Armature. It's like Shanling first created the balanced armature version, and then reverse-engineered a dynamic driver to sound like the balanced armature. It doesn't work very well - the bass feels restricted and whereas I really like the tonality of the balanced armature version, the dynamic driver version feels a bit cold - artificial too.
> 
> And plain simple, no, I do not find the Mpow disappointing. I've now tested over 70 true wireless earphones and I think it's an excellent performer for its price, with a sweet soundstage. I keep testing it against newer TWS, and still think they are very good. Of course, I test TWS with other TWS side by side, not against other audio categories.



I think this is where the disconnect is. Maybe comparing with other wireless it makes sense. With me coming into the TW territory what I purchased was extremely underwhelming. I am now questioning if I should just wait until there is a next generation or go for top of the market Sennhisers that don't look that attractive to me and are missing a whole bunch of important features. I am now questioning if there is a reason why most if not all real headphone/iem companies are still not entering TW market. You would think that technology is there and most companies that make great iems would be easily capable to combine their knowledge and wireless technology at this point. But for some reason not that many are doing it...


----------



## wksoh (Nov 27, 2019)

ld100 said:


> Sound is subjective and everyone hears differently, but thee is a common unifier and most people know what is good and what is bad. Some like brighter sound. Some like more base. Some like more lower end. And some like clear that to others might be unpleasant. But most people can recognize good vs bad. Especially people who frequent head-fi.org.
> 
> Personally I currently have in my setup for full size headphones Sennheisers, Audezes and Focals... While I not an expert at all there is a certain quality that I need to enjoy my music. For a long time I was thinking of TW and now seemed as it is the time to try a bunch as there certainly has been an explosion of TS models on the market. Something good has to be out there, right?
> 
> ...



Thank you for your reply.
I think the idea of "universal good sound" may not hold.
For example - To me, I am so impressed with the MPOW M5. I prefer it to the much expensive Bose 700 by a small margin.
In fact I prefer the MPOW M5 to the entire speaker list that I have under signature.
I find it thick, tonally accurate, textured and engaging.
But to you it's cheap sounding and unclear and bad even for $50.

Our sonic preferences are different


----------



## cwill

How true it is that we all hear so differently. Case in point...I just received the L2P and I DO NOT like how they sound. They are shrill and harsh. I even used the treble reducer EQ and it's still piercing. I do not like sibilance at all. I immediately want to just use my $20 SSK's instead.


----------



## ld100

wksoh said:


> Thank you for your reply.
> I think the idea of "universal good sound" may not hold.
> For example - To me, I was so impressed with the MPOW M5. I prefer it to the much expensive Bose 700 by a small margin.
> In fact I prefer the MPOW M5 to the entire speaker list that have in signature.
> ...



I don't doubt everyone hears things differently. But there is a common ground and some people like brighter and some like thicker lower end but at the end things simply sound good or bad with a different sound signature. The offerings that I tested for TW were seriously underwhelming... I could not find what made them 'good' for multiple reviewers that praised them. I am very spoiled by full size headphones and IEMs that I have or had in a past in terms of my expectations, but come on... If these things are bad they are bad. If Jlab from BestBuy sounds way more coherent that a few I tested based on reviews...


----------



## ld100

cwill said:


> How true it is that we all hear so differently. Case in point...I just received the L2P and I DO NOT like how they sound. They are shrill and harsh. I even used the treble reducer EQ and it's still piercing. I do not like sibilance at all. I immediately want to just use my $20 SSK's instead.



I was ready to jump on the sale bandwagon but then between the lines of the few people that got them I noticed exactly what you just described. Harsh treble. Someone even here or youtube said "piercing" praising them. I immediately knew they were not for me.


----------



## go0gle

CocaCola15 said:


> I favor the Comply Smartcore Audio Pro foam tips with the L2P. I don't even use the wings, they bother me, and get a great, stable seal. Of course, you have to roll them up and let them expand, but I also think they improve the sound. Not cheap, $22 for 3 pair. But worth it to me.



Same for me! Thank you mentioning those


----------



## ggpete (Nov 27, 2019)

So I just lost the etui to my qcy's q2s and i'm looking to buy a new pair of wireless iems.
Can you folks recommend any upgrade over them with a reasonable price or should I just go for the same pair as I was quite happy with them? I saw the QCY's T5 - are these an upgrade?
Thanks


----------



## d3myz (Nov 27, 2019)

mattedialdoc said:


> Also got comped the Rimor so ditto. And I have the Bomaker. And no EQ applies. They are nice.


Are you saying you also don't like the Rimor? Have you tired the T1x? you'd like it if you like the Bomaker. Also, you tried eq'ing the Rimor?


----------



## d3myz (Nov 27, 2019)

I got my MW07's today. These things are beautiful and well made and for $150 it was hard to pass up. I'm probably going to get a lot of crap for this, but when do they start sounding better than the L2pro?  I a/b tested both of them and there's no doubt the MW07 sounds really nice in all aspects, but the high end mids and resolution is not quite as good as the Knowles BA in the L2pro and the bass of the L2pro just smokes the MW07. Like I said they are a really nice TWS, but seemly very v-shaped. Do they require a break-in period? I even compared them to the SSK and the Fiil T1x. the SSK is just all around awesome, but sounds a little veiled after listening to these other TWS's with such excellent highs Then I did the a/b with the MW07 and the Tranya B530 and i'll be damned if the B530 isn't nearly identical, the mids are a tiny bit higher and it has a little more bass. The T1x lacks low end and it borderlines to thin for me, while the MW07 is well rounded a little empty in the mids. Thoughts?

edit: The connection to my laptop is excellent and i'm streaming Aptx@384kbps. I was also streaming AAC @ 320. Aptx Def. sound more full and gives me more volume. The MW07 sounds a little more refined than the B530, but the B530 only supports AAC, SBC, so we'll never know.


----------



## willyk

mattedialdoc said:


> Also got comped the Rimor so ditto. And I have the Bomaker. And no EQ applies. They are nice.



Same for me.  Rimor's seem to be quite good, if not excellent - no eq.
Just different ears!


----------



## el_monkey

d3myz said:


> I got my MW07's today. These things are beautiful and well made and for $150 it was hard to pass up. I'm probably going to get a lot of crap for this, but when do they start sounding better than the L2pro?  I a/b tested both of them and there's no doubt the MW07 sounds really nice in all aspects, but the high end mids and resolution is not quite as good as the Knowles BA in the L2pro and the bass of the L2pro just smokes the MW07. Like I said they are a really nice TWS, but seemly very v-shaped. Do they require a break-in period? I even compared them to the SSK and the Fiil T1x. the SSK is just all around awesome, but sounds a little veiled after listening to these other TWS's with such excellent highs Then I did the a/b with the MW07 and the Tranya B530 and i'll be damned if the B530 isn't nearly identical, the mids are a tiny bit higher and it has a little more bass. The T1x lacks low end and it borderlines to thin for me, while the MW07 is well rounded a little empty in the mids. Thoughts?


I have the MW07 Go and the the LP2 pro and and I think that it depends on your preferred sound signature.  I find that I need to reduce the bass on the LP2 Prod to enjoy them (using the flat or bass reducer setting in the app) versus the MW07 Go default setting.  No right or wrong but just personal perference.


----------



## d3myz (Nov 27, 2019)

el_monkey said:


> I have the MW07 Go and the the LP2 pro and and I think that it depends on your preferred sound signature.  I find that I need to reduce the bass on the LP2 Prod to enjoy them (using the flat or bass reducer setting in the app) versus the MW07 Go default setting.  No right or wrong but just personal perference.


Oh yes, I def. use the Piano or Acoustic setting with the L2pro, oddly enough the signature sound profile sounds pretty close to the MW07 as far as the highs and mids are concerned. I'm using the 2nd iteration of the L2pro, the 1st has even more bass. I have noticed another difference between it and the B530, while I prefer the sound of the B530 it's not quite as v-shaped and has a little more sub-bass, the very top end of the MW07 like in high-hats and symbals sound really amazing, which leads me to believe the B530 is rolled off just a touch and i'm sure the MW07's beryllium driver is probably a better quality component etc. The MW07 still sounds better than 90% of everything I've heard, i'm just hoping with some time they will break in and sound more full, i need a little more mid-range. I can't justify $150 when the L2pro's sound so much better to me and the B530's are so similar.


----------



## GloriousGenMacArthur

Just ordered the Tranya B530.

Excited to give em a spin


----------



## chinmie

Wow, reading this couple of pages  are really interesting.  It shows how the TWSs really competes well in the sound department now, and that one of the most deciding factor on us choosing would go down to our preferences. I think nowadays the second deciding factor would be the looks (and size, to some people), because on the battery and conection stability department,  most of them have done a pretty good job.

On the side note, my GGMM T1 and Liberty Neo from the 11.11 sale has landed on my post office. Might get it in a day or two. I would report here later


----------



## d3myz

GloriousGenMacArthur said:


> Just ordered the Tranya B530.
> 
> Excited to give em a spin


I'm not sure if I mentioned this, but I use the JVC spiral dot tips on them. I find that they clean up and boost the highs up and the high mids. But on certain TWS' they can reduce Bass. I'm excited for you, I hope you like them.


----------



## mattedialdoc

d3myz said:


> Are you saying you also don't like the Rimor? Have you tired the T1x? you'd like it if you like the Bomaker. Also, you tried eq'ing the Rimor?



bro, no I’m saying I LOVE THE RIMOR. And I LOVE THE BOMAKER. And I LOVE IT without needing an EQ.
And I got it for free.
Make sense?


----------



## d3myz (Nov 27, 2019)

mattedialdoc said:


> bro, no I’m saying I LOVE THE RIMOR. And I LOVE THE BOMAKER. And I LOVE IT without needing an EQ.
> And I got it for free.
> Make sense?


That's what I had initially thought Maybe I got a crappy pair. They seem almot like an A shape in eq to me. Do you have the B530? I'd like to get your take on an a/b comparison. I know we all have different Sig. we like, Also, did you hear the True engine SE? it's got that same type super boosted mid sound the Rimor has, but to a much greater degree. You may really like it.


----------



## Mouseman

d3myz said:


> That's what I had initially thought Maybe I got a crappy pair. They seem almot like an A shape in eq to me. Do you have the B530? I'd like to get your take on an a/b comparison. I know we all have different Sig. we like, Also, did you hear the True engine SE? it's got that same type super boosted mid sound the Rimor has, but to a much greater degree. You may really like it.


The Rimor but *more*? My ears hurt just thinking about that.


----------



## DigDub

And so another one joins the collection...


----------



## Samplingentropy

On a budget, and I mean a tiny one, what can I get that sounds closest to the senns hd-25's?

Still afraid of losing theses tws things..
Is there a thread on wired wireless?

Read through basically the last 100 or so pages in this thread, the mpow m5 seems to get a lot of love, anything even cheaper worth looking at?


----------



## voicemaster

Samplingentropy said:


> On a budget, and I mean a tiny one, what can I get that sounds closest to the senns hd-25's?
> 
> Still afraid of losing theses tws things..
> Is there a thread on wired wireless?
> ...



Fiil T1X imho is superior in the sound department to the m5. The case also is smaller in the T1X.


----------



## Samplingentropy

voicemaster said:


> Fiil T1X imho is superior in the sound department to the m5. The case also is smaller in the T1X.



They do look nice, and I guess 69$ ain't expensive, but still it hurts my wallet..
Been looking at Xiaomi airdots in price range..
Or should I just stick to my trusted hd-25's and keep dreaming of wireless until budget is a bit better?


----------



## LordToneeus

Samplingentropy said:


> They do look nice, and I guess 69$ ain't expensive, but still it hurts my wallet..
> Been looking at Xiaomi airdots in price range..
> Or should I just stick to my trusted hd-25's and keep dreaming of wireless until budget is a bit better?


I still very much enjoy my QCY T1C’s, and they can be had for around $20. I think the Dudios Zeus are the same thing. I think.


----------



## Samplingentropy

LordToneeus said:


> I still very much enjoy my QCY T1C’s, and they can be had for around $20. I think the Dudios Zeus are the same thing. I think.



Much friendlier budget wise =]

You happend to try the QCY QY19 to?
I'm really worried about loosing one of these tws phones, going to be used mainly MTB:ing, and the chance of one falling out and just going up in smoke on the trail seems really high =\


----------



## wksoh (Nov 27, 2019)

ld100 said:


> I don't doubt everyone hears things differently. But there is a common ground and some people like brighter and some like thicker lower end but at the end things simply sound good or bad with a different sound signature. The offerings that I tested for TW were seriously underwhelming... I could not find what made them 'good' for multiple reviewers that praised them. I am very spoiled by full size headphones and IEMs that I have or had in a past in terms of my expectations, but come on... If these things are bad they are bad. If Jlab from BestBuy sounds way more coherent that a few I tested based on reviews...


Maybe try Jim's Review Room


----------



## chinmie

Samplingentropy said:


> They do look nice, and I guess 69$ ain't expensive, but still it hurts my wallet..
> Been looking at Xiaomi airdots in price range..
> Or should I just stick to my trusted hd-25's and keep dreaming of wireless until budget is a bit better?





LordToneeus said:


> I still very much enjoy my QCY T1C’s, and they can be had for around $20. I think the Dudios Zeus are the same thing. I think.



Second this. My T1C is still rockin' and i still think it has a great tuning, not just for the price. The new Haylou GT2 is also interesting and seems to be smaller in size. I like the button controls to the touch ones. Less accidental button registers.


----------



## HiFlight

Just received the L2P today and so far I have rather mixed feelings about them. I do like the sound but find them to be bulky and somewhat uncomfortable in my ears and they have less isolation than I had expected.  I do wish the app had the ability to create a custom EQ  nor do I see a way to update the firmware.  My 75t is far more comfortable and provides more isolation with a far more useful app.  Hopefully, I can find a tip/wing combination that will improve fit and comfort.  They are, however, keepers considering the sale price and additional discount.


----------



## clerkpalmer

HiFlight said:


> Just received the L2P today and so far I have rather mixed feelings about them. I do like the sound but find them to be bulky and somewhat uncomfortable in my ears and they have less isolation than I had expected.  I do wish the app had the ability to create a custom EQ  nor do I see a way to update the firmware.  My 75t is far more comfortable and provides more isolation with a far more useful app.  Hopefully, I can find a tip/wing combination that will improve fit and comfort.  They are, however, keepers considering the sale price and additional discount.



how would you compare the sound to the 75t?  The l2p is not a looker but I assume the size was needed for the hybrid setup?


----------



## Pete7874

cwill said:


> How true it is that we all hear so differently. Case in point...I just received the L2P and I DO NOT like how they sound. They are shrill and harsh. I even used the treble reducer EQ and it's still piercing. I do not like sibilance at all.


You and me both.  Ideally i would prefer something with less harsh treble and more bass.  I guess I'm a basshead.


----------



## voicemaster

Samplingentropy said:


> They do look nice, and I guess 69$ ain't expensive, but still it hurts my wallet..
> Been looking at Xiaomi airdots in price range..
> Or should I just stick to my trusted hd-25's and keep dreaming of wireless until budget is a bit better?



It is $50 at amazon if you live in USA.


----------



## Quicky32

I got my LP2 today and they sound great and the connection has been perfect.  I can’t get as good of a seal and they feel like they’re going to fall out.    

I’ve tried a ton of tips and settled on the foam ones from my Ibasso IT01.  Is it normal for TWS to not fit snug?  I can feel them falling out when I move my head...


----------



## Samplingentropy

voicemaster said:


> It is $50 at amazon if you live in USA.



I'm in Sweden.
Just learned there's a thing called neckband phones, might be just what I'm looking for =]
Less risk of losing them on a wild bike ride through the snowy Forrest's =]
Need to find a thread here and read up on what's good in my budget range.


----------



## voicemaster

Samplingentropy said:


> I'm in Sweden.
> Just learned there's a thing called neckband phones, might be just what I'm looking for =]
> Less risk of losing them on a wild bike ride through the snowy Forrest's =]
> Need to find a thread here and read up on what's good in my budget range.



Or you can get a bluetooth adapter like TRN bt20s.


----------



## d3myz (Nov 28, 2019)

Mouseman said:


> The Rimor but *more*? My ears hurt just thinking about that.


I know man. They are in the top 5 worst qualcom chipset TWS' i've heard all year. I don't understand how anyone could Love the Rimor without some serious EQ'ing. Then again, I didn't love the Tevi either, but it least it had beautiful highs even if it did have -1 in the bass dept.


----------



## d3myz

Samplingentropy said:


> They do look nice, and I guess 69$ ain't expensive, but still it hurts my wallet..
> Been looking at Xiaomi airdots in price range..
> Or should I just stick to my trusted hd-25's and keep dreaming of wireless until budget is a bit better?


QCY T1S/T1C. Cheap as can be and great sound quality for the money. I believe the other offerings are around $30.


----------



## hifi80sman

d3myz said:


> I got my MW07's today. These things are beautiful and well made and for $150 it was hard to pass up. I'm probably going to get a lot of crap for this, but when do they start sounding better than the L2pro?  I a/b tested both of them and there's no doubt the MW07 sounds really nice in all aspects, but the high end mids and resolution is not quite as good as the Knowles BA in the L2pro and the bass of the L2pro just smokes the MW07. Like I said they are a really nice TWS, but seemly very v-shaped. Do they require a break-in period? I even compared them to the SSK and the Fiil T1x. the SSK is just all around awesome, but sounds a little veiled after listening to these other TWS's with such excellent highs Then I did the a/b with the MW07 and the Tranya B530 and i'll be damned if the B530 isn't nearly identical, the mids are a tiny bit higher and it has a little more bass. The T1x lacks low end and it borderlines to thin for me, while the MW07 is well rounded a little empty in the mids. Thoughts?
> 
> edit: The connection to my laptop is excellent and i'm streaming Aptx@384kbps. I was also streaming AAC @ 320. Aptx Def. sound more full and gives me more volume. The MW07 sounds a little more refined than the B530, but the B530 only supports AAC, SBC, so we'll never know.


For me, the BA can get a little fatiguing (which is where I think Anker would be wise to include an actual EQ) so I have a rotation of TWS' that I like, which more or less fall in the same upper-tier category (L2P, MW07, XM3, HoM Liberate Air, APP.).

Give the MW07 some time, don't rotate out with anything (that's going to be tough), and see how they sound after a bit.

I also just got the APP back because I had $60 in Apple Store gift cards.  For that price, I'm definitely happy with them.  Not sure if it's placebo, but this pair sounds better than the first pair I got.  The highs seem to be clearer and not scratchy as I originally perceived them to be.


----------



## HiFlight

clerkpalmer said:


> how would you compare the sound to the 75t?  The l2p is not a looker but I assume the size was needed for the hybrid setup?


The EQ that I ended up preferring for my 75t sounds nearly identical to the l2p piano preset.  I did figure out how to update the firmware and found a tip/wing combo that improves the seal and isolation, however is not comfortable for much longer than about half an hour,  hence I suspect that my Libertone and 75t will continue to get most of the ear time due to the comfort issue.
Perhaps my ear size and shape is not a good match for extended listening periods with the Liberty.


----------



## ngd3

L2P owners - do you get bass distortion at normal to slightly high volumes using the Acoustic eq preset? I think it's my favorite eq but the bass distorts regularly

Pretty sure I have the new version of buds if that matters


----------



## linkzex

Hey what's the general consensus for best tws iem under $50. I'm looking at haylou gt1 rn because I like the form factor of the case. Any must buy recommendations?


----------



## d3myz

I spent several hours with the MW07 today. The bottom of my case is already scratched to H3ll, ugh. It's ok, I was told it might be an issue. I've got to say I really enjoy them in almost every aspect. The mic is superb for calls other than it doesn't have any noise cancellation, but it's fantastic to use in the car on in the office. The only thing I find somewhat lacking the the bottom end of the bass. It just lacks that lower register that I really enjoy, that I get from the L2pro, there's no doubt this is a finely tuned piece of hardware and it's beautiful. I love the controls. After about 30 min. my right ear gets to be really sore, so I may have to remove the silicon wing. They are a little heavier than other TWS' but it doesn't bother me at all. Any suggestions for tips? I can't use the Spiral Dots, they make the mids and treble a little too sharp and reduce the bass even more. I've still been comparing them to the B530 it's def. a little less refined sounding, but for a fraction of the cost, it's really close. Now i'm curious about the Go and the Plus. I know there is no AAC support, so how do they sound on an iphone with SBC? Anyone compare the two/three? How's the mic on the Go and the Plus. I noticed the Go only has one mic on the right.


----------



## d3myz

ngd3 said:


> L2P owners - do you get bass distortion at normal to slightly high volumes using the Acoustic eq preset? I think it's my favorite eq but the bass distorts regularly
> 
> Pretty sure I have the new version of buds if that matters


I don't. Are you using the stock grey and orange tips? I know a lot of folks say the L2pro have too much bass, but with the Spiral Dots, they are perfect.


----------



## d3myz

linkzex said:


> Hey what's the general consensus for best tws iem under $50. I'm looking at haylou gt1 rn because I like the form factor of the case. Any must buy recommendations?


What sound signature do you like?


----------



## d3myz

hifi80sman said:


> For me, the BA can get a little fatiguing (which is where I think Anker would be wise to include an actual EQ) so I have a rotation of TWS' that I like, which more or less fall in the same upper-tier category (L2P, MW07, XM3, HoM Liberate Air, APP.).
> 
> Give the MW07 some time, don't rotate out with anything (that's going to be tough), and see how they sound after a bit.
> 
> I also just got the APP back because I had $60 in Apple Store gift cards.  For that price, I'm definitely happy with them.  Not sure if it's placebo, but this pair sounds better than the first pair I got.  The highs seem to be clearer and not scratchy as I originally perceived them to be.



Nice, I think i'm getting some APP's for Christmas. I just spent the last 3-4 hours with the MW07, The right fin hurts my ears. ugh. i've tried a couple different tips, Still not great but the black soundcore tips that came with the L2pro's sound better than the stock tips and I can't get my spiral dots to work well. I'm listening to the L2pro now and your right, the highs are much higher which i don't mind, but the MW07's mids are a thicker, which I def. like. Where the L2pro really excels to me is in electronic music and newer music. Do you have the MW07 plus?


----------



## Caipirina (Nov 28, 2019)

Gosh, I am nearly 20 pages behind (note to self, you left off at 1066)

Anyways, just wanted to share that I feel that Apple tells me in no uncertain terms that I shall not have the APP ...

Arrived in SG on Sunday, went straight to the store, they have a very helpful listening (and constantly clean and disinfect) station and I listen a bit for 5 minutes and tell sales lady 'yes, I take one', she beams me a huge smile and says 'oh, so sorry, we just sold out TODAY!' ... but i can just drop in next days, hopefully they will get more....

So, I drop in next day, this time I take time to do the fit test, and whoa, NONE of the tips nor repositioning gets me a positive fit test results! My ears do not conform to the apple parameters!!!
And also still out of stock and now they tell me I shall order online for in-store pick up.

I try that then on Wednesday only to find out that the Singapore apple online store is equipped to only accept credits cards with billing addresses in SG or the US ... nothing else!!!
But good actually my order did not go through as it turns out that the next available date is 26 december!!!!

Well, by then maybe I find a cheaper (gently used) pair at e-earphone in Tokyo for xmas. At least I got to try them. Nice, yes, and I can imagine great for work out / running. Sure not for analytical / critical audiophile sessions.


----------



## linkzex

d3myz said:


> What sound signature do you like?


Slightly warm I guess. Sufficient bass thump , good mids as I listen to shoegaze/dreampop a lot and prefer to not have harsh treble.


----------



## hifi80sman

d3myz said:


> Nice, I think i'm getting some APP's for Christmas. I just spent the last 3-4 hours with the MW07, The right fin hurts my ears. ugh. i've tried a couple different tips, Still not great but the black soundcore tips that came with the L2pro's sound better than the stock tips and I can't get my spiral dots to work well. I'm listening to the L2pro now and your right, the highs are much higher which i don't mind, but the MW07's mids are a thicker, which I def. like. Where the L2pro really excels to me is in electronic music and newer music. Do you have the MW07 plus?


Nope, just the original.  I’m waiting until they (supposedly) update to include AAC support.  

The the APP are starting to grow on me.  Vocals are great.  Bass quantity is good, but it’s a little soft.  Overall, liking them and iPhone integration.


----------



## Luchyres

HiFlight said:


> The EQ that I ended up preferring for my 75t sounds nearly identical to the l2p piano preset.  I did figure out how to update the firmware and found a tip/wing combo that improves the seal and isolation, however is not comfortable for much longer than about half an hour,  hence I suspect that my Libertone and 75t will continue to get most of the ear time due to the comfort issue.
> Perhaps my ear size and shape is not a good match for extended listening periods with the Liberty.



Would you be so kind as to compare the libratone, 75t, and l2p case size and Mic call quality?


----------



## DigDub

Caipirina said:


> Gosh, I am nearly 20 pages behind (note to self, you left off at 1066)
> 
> Anyways, just wanted to share that I feel that Apple tells me in no uncertain terms that I shall not have the APP ...
> 
> ...


Other than the official Apple Store, other stores do carry the APP as well. The stocks were replenished I believe around 3 days ago. I got mine from Challenger store yesterday, they have quite a lot of stores over Singapore, most stores should still have the APP in stock.


----------



## Caipirina

DigDub said:


> Other than the official Apple Store, other stores do carry the APP as well. The stocks were replenished I believe around 3 days ago. I got mine from Challenger store yesterday, they have quite a lot of stores over Singapore, most stores should still have the APP in stock.



OOOOOOHHHHHHH ....

Man on a  mission

Again!


----------



## DigDub

Caipirina said:


> OOOOOOHHHHHHH ....
> 
> Man on a  mission
> 
> Again!


If you are at Orchard Road, the nearest Challenger stores are 313@Someset or Plaza Singapura. If you do go to Plaza Singapura, do visit the Stereo store in the same building, they sell a lot of earbuds as well.

https://www.challenger.com.sg/store_locator?storeType=Challenger


----------



## Caipirina

DigDub said:


> If you are at Orchard Road, the nearest Challenger stores are 313@Someset or Plaza Singapura. If you do go to Plaza Singapura, do visit the Stereo store in the same building, they sell a lot of earbuds as well.
> 
> https://www.challenger.com.sg/store_locator?storeType=Challenger


. 

thanks! 
I am out now in the effin rain, trying raffles city first . Then PS and then Somerset 

always check out stereo.sg when I am here. Also for full size cans. Get member discount


----------



## gibletzor

d3myz said:


> They are in the top 5 worst qualcom chipset TWS' i've heard all year. I don't understand how anyone could Love the Rimor without some serious EQ'ing.



Maybe because Rimor uses a Realtek chipset.


----------



## twice2

d3myz said:


> I got my MW07's today. These things are beautiful and well made and for $150 it was hard to pass up. I'm probably going to get a lot of crap for this, but when do they start sounding better than the L2pro?  I a/b tested both of them and there's no doubt the MW07 sounds really nice in all aspects, but the high end mids and resolution is not quite as good as the Knowles BA in the L2pro and the bass of the L2pro just smokes the MW07. Like I said they are a really nice TWS, but seemly very v-shaped. Do they require a break-in period? I even compared them to the SSK and the Fiil T1x. the SSK is just all around awesome, but sounds a little veiled after listening to these other TWS's with such excellent highs Then I did the a/b with the MW07 and the Tranya B530 and i'll be damned if the B530 isn't nearly identical, the mids are a tiny bit higher and it has a little more bass. The T1x lacks low end and it borderlines to thin for me, while the MW07 is well rounded a little empty in the mids. Thoughts?
> 
> edit: The connection to my laptop is excellent and i'm streaming Aptx@384kbps. I was also streaming AAC @ 320. Aptx Def. sound more full and gives me more volume. The MW07 sounds a little more refined than the B530, but the B530 only supports AAC, SBC, so we'll never know.



On my first day I didnt like them. After swapping the wings to small and putting on foam tips (Foamer 4.9 M I think), I twisted them into the ears. After a few hours I noticed better sound all around. Maybe the brain adjusts to the signature, but ever since I really liked them prefering them over my wired 1more quads. I also kept the Cambridge Melomania since they have more bass but with slightly recessed mids and voices (foam tips changed the Melomania signature dramatically, some people only use the Melomania with silicon tips). The MW07 is my go to for clear voices. They don't seal too great (tested in train, not that great for noisy environment). Highs are crispy but not harsh. I ordered the KZ E10 because of good reviews but the mids were weird (flat voices) and the highs hurt (some EQ adjustments made them good for the price, but I can understand that 5 drivers are hard to adjust).


----------



## webvan (Nov 28, 2019)

@d3myz - how do you see the streaming speed on your laptop?

@Caipirina - have you received the x12 ultra? I received the X12 v2 and gave them a quick try. Other than the color (red!) I can't tell them apart from the Lezzii X12. Feel better about having a spare as I do all my running with them.


----------



## Caipirina (Nov 28, 2019)

DigDub said:


> If you are at Orchard Road, the nearest Challenger stores are 313@Someset or Plaza Singapura. If you do go to Plaza Singapura, do visit the Stereo store in the same building, they sell a lot of earbuds as well.
> 
> https://www.challenger.com.sg/store_locator?storeType=Challenger


And SCORE! Challenger @‘PS  ‘just’ got in 15 sets! Now it’s 14  (at raffles they said ‘all sold out across the island’)

thanks again for pointing this option out!


----------



## chinmie

this GGMM T1 has arrived, along with other 11.11 purchases. the case is really light and plasticky, but the unit itself feels nice with rubbery material for its hooks. other than the sound nozzle, there's no visible holes on this, so i think it can survive rain with no problem. controls also really nice with sliding for volume and changing tracks

the cons is, even with all that supplied eartips, for the life of me i can't get it to seal in my ears. the only tips that works for me are Sony hybrids and Sony MH755 tips. 

the sound is really warm, with bloomy bass. mids and treble is nice, no roll offs or anything weird. overall this is not my sound preference (as i like bright and analytical sound most of the time) , but somehow it also doesn't offend me, so i can listen to it for a long session. 

it's going to be my beater TWS for sport and other sweaty and wet activities for sure


----------



## georgelai57

Caipirina said:


> And SCORE! Challenger @‘PS  ‘just’ got in 15 sets! Now it’s 14  (at raffles they said ‘all sold out across the island’)
> 
> thanks again for pointing this option out!


You should have bought all 15 then sell them for a $10 profit each.


----------



## webvan

chinmie said:


> this GGMM T1 has arrived, along with other 11.11 purchases. the case is really light and plasticky, but the unit itself feels nice with rubbery material for its hooks. other than the sound nozzle, there's no visible holes on this, so i think it can survive rain with no problem. controls also really nice with sliding for volume and changing tracks
> 
> the cons is, even with all that supplied eartips, for the life of me i can't get it to seal in my ears. the only tips that works for me are Sony hybrids and Sony MH755 tips.
> 
> ...



Thanks for the report. Do they maybe not seal "by design" to avoid the obligatory "thumping" when running with an IEM ? That could explain the "bloomy" bass to keep a pleasing sound in spite of the lack of a seal.


----------



## Bartig

webvan said:


> Thanks for the report. Do they maybe not seal "by design" to avoid the obligatory "thumping" when running with an IEM ? That could explain the "bloomy" bass to keep a pleasing sound in spite of the lack of a seal.


Ooh, that's a good guess. The iKonex Audio X7 crowdfunding project has the exact same sound signature.


----------



## falang (Nov 28, 2019)

HiFlight said:


> Just received the L2P today and so far I have rather mixed feelings about them. I do like the sound but find them to be bulky and somewhat uncomfortable in my ears and they have less isolation than I had expected.  I do wish the app had the ability to create a custom EQ  nor do I see a way to update the firmware.  My 75t is far more comfortable and provides more isolation with a far more useful app.  Hopefully, I can find a tip/wing combination that will improve fit and comfort.  They are, however, keepers considering the sale price and additional discount.



Exact same issue as I have.  I've been trying to get a good fit for days and it's just not happening.  I get horrible isolation, they fit really loose in my ears.  It takes nothing to pull them out.  Either I have really problematic ears, or it's user error.  I'm leaning to the latter.

I've seen people describe and show on YouTube the_ insert vertically and rotate_ method.  But it's not working for me.  Is the tip supposed to just cover/block the ear canal and not be inserted like a typical IEM?  Can anyone who has gotten a good seal reveal their methods?


----------



## base08

Had my QCY QS1 for 4 months and was pretty happy with them, but right driver failed today... 



Not happy with their durability, maybe I had a defective pair... Now the question is: should I buy the same one or go to something in the same price range 20$-30$ that you can consider an upgrade?

I looked at the Tronsmart Spunky Beat or even the QCY T5 but I really like the sound signature from the QCY QS1 / T1c... I'm confused...


----------



## Bartig

base08 said:


> Had my QCY QS1 for 4 months and was pretty happy with them, but right driver failed today...
> 
> 
> 
> ...



The Spunky Beat, QCY T5 and also the Haylou GT2 (my review, by the way) are fantastic alternatives, buuuuut... maybe this helps? https://www.scarbir.com/guide/how-to-fix-qcy-soundpeats-dudios-issues


----------



## chinmie

webvan said:


> Thanks for the report. Do they maybe not seal "by design" to avoid the obligatory "thumping" when running with an IEM ? That could explain the "bloomy" bass to keep a pleasing sound in spite of the lack of a seal.



i also initially thought the same, but with my ears, they're not just form a seal and just sit there (like earbuds), but they are just outright dislodged 

when i put it "just resting" on the ears, it does sound airy and not too boomy on the midbass. i would definitely try experiment with other eartips (maybe some foams) as i do like this other than the fit problem. 

oo, and another thing, even with full seal, this one doesn't thump too much.. it's comparable to the Nillkin Go, as a matter of fact. i can eat and chew without hearing it loudly in my head. I'll try using it tomorrow for riding (bumpy road and helmet is my ultimate thump test) it still fit under my half face helmet. I'll report back tomorrow


----------



## base08

Bartig said:


> The Spunky Beat, QCY T5 and also the Haylou GT2 (my review, by the way) are fantastic alternatives, buuuuut... maybe this helps? https://www.scarbir.com/guide/how-to-fix-qcy-soundpeats-dudios-issues



Yes, I have tried the reset trick but it's the driver that failed. In the beginning the sound started cutting from time to time,  with pressure changes in my ear canal like when I was chewing or changing position, until the point it stopped completely... I really like the neutrality and good resolution of the QCY QS1, but I'm afraid ill get with the other two options less mature sound signature and performance... I saw a FR chart from the QCY T5 vs QCY QS1 / T1 but the T5 seems to have a toned down low end which I appreciate in the QS1... Decisions decisions...


----------



## Bartig

base08 said:


> Yes, I have tried the reset trick but it's the driver that failed. In the beginning the sound started cutting from time to time,  with pressure changes in my ear canal like when I was chewing or changing position, until the point it stopped completely... I really like the neutrality and good resolution of the QCY QS1, but I'm afraid ill get with the other two options less mature sound signature and performance... I saw a FR chart from the QCY T5 vs QCY QS1 / T1 but the T5 seems to have a toned down low end which I appreciate in the QS1... Decisions decisions...


The Haylou GT2 is like a QCY QS2 with more emphasis on the lower end. Fell in love instantly.


----------



## llmgtab

I received the MW07 Pro's a few days ago, and I think I have finally found my perfect TWS! My challenge has been finding something that is comfortable in my small and odd shaped ears. Needing transparency mode limited my choices as well. I used the Earin M2 for almost a year, but after 11 months the battery was down to 2.5 hours, which is way to short for how I use these.

I left the MW07 to last as I was sure these big boys would not work with my ears. The first day I loved the sound right away, and the controls. But did feel discomfit after an hour. And the right bud felt like it was going to come out - which is when I found out that ear is a bit weirdly shaped and no size wing would work with it.

I decided to put on my Spinfit CP100Z without the wings. They felt great! and mostly secure. I then decided to buy a set of Comply True Grip pros. This is the perfect combo for me. Love the sound with them and they stay in place without the wings. I may not be to run in these, but I don't do that anyway. I wore them all day yesterday listening to Beethoven's symphonies and I am in love!


----------



## ggpete

Bartig said:


> The Haylou GT2 is like a QCY QS2 with more emphasis on the lower end. Fell in love instantly.



Would you recommend the GT2/GT1 or T5's as a replacement for QS2's? Also do you know the Anomoibuds IP010 PLUS or Mpow's t6 by any chance?


----------



## DigDub

Caipirina said:


> And SCORE! Challenger @‘PS  ‘just’ got in 15 sets! Now it’s 14  (at raffles they said ‘all sold out across the island’)
> 
> thanks again for pointing this option out!


Enjoy the buds.


----------



## Quicky32

falang said:


> Exact same issue as I have.  I've been trying to get a good fit for days and it's just not happening.  I get horrible isolation, they fit really loose in my ears.  It takes nothing to pull them out.  Either I have really problematic ears, or it's user error.  I'm leaning to the latter.
> 
> I've seen people describe and show on YouTube the_ insert vertically and rotate_ method.  But it's not working for me.  Is the tip supposed to just cover/block the ear canal and not be inserted like a typical IEM?  Can anyone who has gotten a good seal reveal their methods?



I'm having the same issue.  The sound is great considering I don't feel like I have a good deal.  When I turn my head or bend down to stretch, I can feel them coming out of my ears.


----------



## webvan

chinmie said:


> i also initially thought the same, but with my ears, they're not just form a seal and just sit there (like earbuds), but they are just outright dislodged
> 
> when i put it "just resting" on the ears, it does sound airy and not too boomy on the midbass. i would definitely try experiment with other eartips (maybe some foams) as i do like this other than the fit problem.
> 
> oo, and another thing, even with full seal, this one doesn't thump too much.. it's comparable to the Nillkin Go, as a matter of fact. i can eat and chew without hearing it loudly in my head. I'll try using it tomorrow for riding (bumpy road and helmet is my ultimate thump test) it still fit under my half face helmet. I'll report back tomorrow



Let us know how it goes. I would have thought that running would be the ultimate thump test, unless there's no suspension on your bike and you have hard rubber tires ?  Ah unfortunately my Nillkin Go order got cancelled by AliExpress for some reason so I won't be able to see if they also work for me without "the thump" while running


----------



## clerkpalmer

RHA true connect 99 today for Black Friday. Not worth 169 but at 99 these are a pretty nice option. Upper tier sound quality and I assume they’ve fixed the early connection issues. Also available in a nice navy blue and white.


----------



## Caipirina

webvan said:


> @Caipirina - have you received the x12 ultra? I received the X12 v2 and gave them a quick try. Other than the color (red!) I can't tell them apart from the Lezzii X12. Feel better about having a spare as I do all my running with them.



I received the X12 non-Ultra (Pro / no AptX) in all black ... and they are awesome, used them on several runs so far, testing out with foams / wings / both ... unfortunately I fear I got some sweat inside the right bud today, first it felt like there was no sound coming at all anymore, but now after a while of drying there is about 70% of volume back, I hope they will recover. 
They have a much more stable connection than my 4.2 LeziiX12 

Tomorrow I try the APP for running


----------



## duo8

Any decent BF deals yet?


----------



## webvan

Caipirina said:


> I received the X12 non-Ultra (Pro / no AptX) in all black ... and they are awesome, used them on several runs so far, testing out with foams / wings / both ... unfortunately I fear I got some sweat inside the right bud today, first it felt like there was no sound coming at all anymore, but now after a while of drying there is about 70% of volume back, I hope they will recover.
> They have a much more stable connection than my 4.2 LeziiX12
> 
> Tomorrow I try the APP for running



Let us know how that goes, I can't say I was really impressed in spite of the "pressure vent" hype...and running with ANC just made some weird sounds.

Sorry to hear about the volume loss. I took them for a run today to make sure they worked ok and I got one disconnect in a place where I don't usually get a disconnect with my Lezii that have been generally very stable. Might have been a fluke. I don't run in very interference prone areas usually but BT 5.0 might come in handy I suppose.
I put the little "drilled foams" on them and was a bit disappointed by the sound at first compared to what I remembered of the Lezii. I think it comes down to having used the much clearer Echo Buds a lot lately (not for running) but after a while I got used to the SQ, my ears/brains 'burned in"


----------



## HiFlight (Nov 28, 2019)

Luchyres said:


> Would you be so kind as to compare the libratone, 75t, and l2p case size and Mic call quality?



Overall, all 3 are pretty small but as you can see, the L2P is larger than the 75t and Libratone cases.  Call quality on both the 75t and Libratone are excellent, both sounding virtuallyindistinguishable from calls made from my phone. I haven't yet made any calls from the Liberty.


----------



## Samplingentropy

voicemaster said:


> Or you can get a bluetooth adapter like TRN bt20s.



Broke my only pair of iem's a couple of weeks ago, those trn and a set of kz is again over my budget for now =\
Found a few neckband options for around 20€
Qcy and Anker ones.
Thinking of one of those for Christmas.


----------



## ngd3

d3myz said:


> I don't. Are you using the stock grey and orange tips? I know a lot of folks say the L2pro have too much bass, but with the Spiral Dots, they are perfect.



I'm good with the higher bass quantity. And i don't think it has anything to do with the tips. I've used stock and custom tips, very obvious distortion only on the Acoustic eq. I guess I'll email Anker to see what they think


----------



## ld100

wksoh said:


> Maybe try Jim's Review Room



Sorry buddy but based on the gear you have he is more your kind of guy


----------



## Audiokuluttaja

Could I get a top 3 under 60$ TWE listing BUT with emphasis _only_ on SQ? Best sound wins.

Disregard calling abilities(don't call that much) / track or volume change from the buds(changes done on the phone or computer) / youtube lag etc. and battery life _UNLESS under 2.5h_ without a charge.

Much appreciated if someone could share their thoughts on the current offering with these aspects in mind with some input as well on the decision making. It's really hard to keep track with the ever moving scene.

Thanks!


----------



## cwill

Audiokuluttaja said:


> Could I get a top 3 under 60$ TWE listing BUT with emphasis _only_ on SQ? Best sound wins.
> 
> Disregard calling abilities(don't call that much) / track or volume change from the buds(changes done on the phone or computer) / youtube lag etc. and battery life _UNLESS under 2.5h_ without a charge.
> 
> ...


https://www.scarbir.com


----------



## Audiokuluttaja

cwill said:


> https://www.scarbir.com



thanks! will dive in.


----------



## Quicky32 (Nov 28, 2019)

I used my LP2 at the gym today and they do feel like they aren’t all the way in as far as my IEMs but the seal is fine.  The sound is awesome, isolation is decent, they don’t move and they are way more comfortable then my IT01s.  Overall I’m extremely happy with them for the exercise I do elliptical, treadmill, and weight machines.  I think they would be an issue for me if I jogged or did a vigorous workout.


----------



## clerkpalmer

Quicky32 said:


> I used my LP2 at the gym today and they do feel like they aren’t all the way in as far as my IEMs but the seal is fine.  The sound is awesome, isolation is decent, they don’t move and they are way more comfortable then my IT01s.  Overall I’m extremely happy with them for the exercise I do elliptical, treadmill, and weight machines.  I think they would be an issue for me if I jogged or did a vigorous workout.


Yeah fit is a little fussy. I have to rotate them almost vertically to get them to stay put. Someone up thread said they run with them but they would never work for me. You guys posting your shiny APPs last night almost convinced me to grab another set after I returned the first set but I cannot see myself reaching for them over the L2p if any sort of music is involved.  I want to love them badly but that sq is just so meh.


----------



## Quicky32

clerkpalmer said:


> Yeah fit is a little fussy. I have to rotate them almost vertically to get them to stay put. Someone up thread said they run with them but they would never work for me. You guys posting your shiny APPs last night almost convinced me to grab another set after I returned the first set but I cannot see myself reaching for them over the L2p if any sort of music is involved.  I want to love them badly but that sq is just so meh.



Yea if I find something that sounds as good but fits better they would be perfect.  A smaller TWS may fit better but probably doesn’t sound as good?  I’m not sure because this is my first set...


----------



## wavid (Nov 28, 2019)

Anyone tried T2 iems with the bt20s? Does it hiss? I read that the bt20s had hissing issues but not with every iem

Maybe the Fiio utws1 will be better

Edit: or not.....


----------



## d3myz

linkzex said:


> Slightly warm I guess. Sufficient bass thump , good mids as I listen to shoegaze/dreampop a lot and prefer to not have harsh treble.


hmm.. well, I'm listening to these today and they sound pretty awesome. Lots of thumpy bass and great mids. Highs are def. rolled off, but this is what i'd call a bass emphasized warmly tuned headphone. I'm hoping they will break in a little and i'll get some more high end, but for hip-hop and electronic music they sound really fun. All in all, this is a quality find. Nice metal case with usb-c and a huge battery capacity. the buds are rated to last 6 hours. i'll update later.


----------



## d3myz

gibletzor said:


> Maybe because Rimor uses a Realtek chipset.


I dont' think that's it. the B530's use the same chip and they sound awesome. I think the SSK's also use an realtek chip at least the Anbes does.


----------



## d3myz

twice2 said:


> On my first day I didnt like them. After swapping the wings to small and putting on foam tips (Foamer 4.9 M I think), I twisted them into the ears. After a few hours I noticed better sound all around. Maybe the brain adjusts to the signature, but ever since I really liked them prefering them over my wired 1more quads. I also kept the Cambridge Melomania since they have more bass but with slightly recessed mids and voices (foam tips changed the Melomania signature dramatically, some people only use the Melomania with silicon tips). The MW07 is my go to for clear voices. They don't seal too great (tested in train, not that great for noisy environment). Highs are crispy but not harsh. I ordered the KZ E10 because of good reviews but the mids were weird (flat voices) and the highs hurt (some EQ adjustments made them good for the price, but I can understand that 5 drivers are hard to adjust).


Thanks for the feedback, The more I listen to them and other buds I have the more i realize how nice they are. They don't have enough bass for everything I like, but that's why I have lots of others to choose from. I'll have to check out the melomania.


----------



## d3myz

webvan said:


> @d3myz - how do you see the streaming speed on your laptop?
> 
> @Caipirina - have you received the x12 ultra? I received the X12 v2 and gave them a quick try. Other than the color (red!) I can't tell them apart from the Lezzii X12. Feel better about having a spare as I do all my running with them.


I don't know how to do it on a PC, but on a mac you get the apple dev tools, go to tools in Bluetooth explorer and open Audio Tools. This is where you can enable AptX, Adjust the AAC bitrate and SBC bitrate etc. There's a button at the bottom called Graph, it will tell you the specs of you connection etc.


----------



## Grayson73

Grayson73 said:


> 2019 Upgraded, Anker Soundcore Liberty Neo 33.99.
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07MCGZK3B



Now $29.99 after $4 coupon


----------



## ggpete

Can anyone compare the Shanling's MTW100 with MPOW t5's? Are the mtw100's worth paying double the price of the latter?


----------



## d3myz

Audiokuluttaja said:


> Could I get a top 3 under 60$ TWE listing BUT with emphasis _only_ on SQ? Best sound wins.
> 
> Disregard calling abilities(don't call that much) / track or volume change from the buds(changes done on the phone or computer) / youtube lag etc. and battery life _UNLESS under 2.5h_ without a charge.
> 
> ...


https://www.head-fi.org/threads/rank-the-true-wireless-iems-youve-heard.910785/


----------



## Audiokuluttaja

d3myz said:


> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/rank-the-true-wireless-iems-youve-heard.910785/



also a big thanks!


----------



## gibletzor

d3myz said:


> I dont' think that's it. the B530's use the same chip and they sound awesome. I think the SSK's also use an realtek chip at least the Anbes does.


Oh I know it's not the reason they sound bad to you.  You said they were the worst sounding Qualcomm based earbuds you'd heard this year.


----------



## d3myz (Nov 28, 2019)

d3myz said:


> That's what I had initially thought Maybe I got a crappy pair. They seem almot like an A shape in eq to me. Do you have the B530? I'd like to get your take on an a/b comparison. I know we all have different Sig. we like, Also, did you hear the True engine SE? it's got that same type super boosted mid sound the Rimor has, but to a much greater degree. You may really like it.





Mouseman said:


> The Rimor but *more*? My ears hurt just thinking about that.





gibletzor said:


> Maybe because Rimor uses a Realtek chipset.


Oh, if you look at the original response, I was referring to the TrueEnginen SE.


----------



## gibletzor

d3myz said:


> Oh, if you look at the original response, I was referring to the TrueEnginen SE.


My reading comprehension is lacking today apparently.


----------



## ukbiker

These support APT-X and are rated 5 stars and appear to have a very good Black Friday price, has anyone tried them?

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000373627069.htm


----------



## ukbiker

...I was joking BTW


----------



## Quicky32

I keep going back and forth on the fit on the LP2.  I’m sitting down and they feel like they want to fall out.  Is this normal with TWS or is it because these are so big I can’t get them to fit properly?

I love the sound but the fit is a deal breaker...


----------



## webvan

Quicky32 said:


> I keep going back and forth on the fit on the LP2.  I’m sitting down and they feel like they want to fall out.  Is this normal with TWS or is it because these are so big I can’t get them to fit properly?
> 
> I love the sound but the fit is a deal breaker...


Haven't tried the L2Ps but what you write reminds me of the Sony WF-1000XM3s that I had to ram into my ears (with the quickly painful associated pressure) to have them stay on but some people are fortunate enough to just push them in a bit, turn them and they lock into place. It has to be down to the shape of one's ears. Having said that it seems there were way more people complaining about the fit of the Sonys than of the L2Ps.


----------



## falang

Quicky32 said:


> I keep going back and forth on the fit on the LP2.  I’m sitting down and they feel like they want to fall out.  Is this normal with TWS or is it because these are so big I can’t get them to fit properly?
> 
> I love the sound but the fit is a deal breaker...



All those guys or gals that said they sound great haven't told us how they got them to sound great. I guess it will remain elusive to us common folk with oddly shaped ears and/or poor earphone insertion techniques.


----------



## Uncle00Jesse (Nov 28, 2019)

That’s weird. Had a bunch of trouble with fit with the XM3s, but the L2P has been great. Make sure you find the right wing size, it may not be tucked in just right. Insert them snug vertically, then turn it horizontal and make sure you feel that wing lock in there


----------



## Quicky32

I've tried all 3 wing sizes and a bunch of tips.  I've settled on my medium Comply foam tips that were on my IT01 and the large wings but they still feel like they're going to fall out.  Maybe they just aren't fit for my ears...


----------



## chinmie

ukbiker said:


> These support APT-X and are rated 5 stars and appear to have a very good Black Friday price, has anyone tried them?
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000373627069.htm



i don't think that supports aptx, and the build quality is a bit on the cheap side..
this one might be a better deal for this sale:

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000377076214.html



wavid said:


> Anyone tried T2 iems with the bt20s? Does it hiss? I read that the bt20s had hissing issues but not with every iem
> 
> Maybe the Fiio utws1 will be better
> 
> Edit: or not.....



which T2? if you mean the Tihifi, I've tested the T2, T2 Pro, and the T3 with the BT20S, all have no audible hiss


----------



## d3myz

]


ukbiker said:


> These support APT-X and are rated 5 stars and appear to have a very good Black Friday price, has anyone tried them?
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000373627069.htm


link doesn’t work for me.


----------



## Samplingentropy

d3myz said:


> ]
> 
> link doesn’t work for me.


 Missing the last L in html.
Goes to a pair of 1,95$ tws buds=p


----------



## Caipirina

Samplingentropy said:


> Missing the last L in html.
> Goes to a pair of 1,95$ tws buds=p



I see them for 1.48USD ... they are at a point now of  'we are throwing them away, just pay some shipping pls'


----------



## Caipirina

webvan said:


> Let us know how it goes. I would have thought that running would be the ultimate thump test, unless there's no suspension on your bike and you have hard rubber tires ?  Ah unfortunately my Nillkin Go order got cancelled by AliExpress for some reason so I won't be able to see if they also work for me without "the thump" while running



Only did 6K Fartleks with them this morning ... and they sure 'thump' ... not as bad as others that I have to jam up my earcanals, but it is there. And after using the X12 the last few days, it is a bit annoying, but I guess I can get used to it again ... the ANC is just lovely! And sit very securely and unobtrusive. For that 180BPM EDM playlist I was jamming to today, I was happy with the SQ. 

Have not checked on the soaked X12 yet.


----------



## cwill

Caipirina said:


> I see them for 1.48USD ... they are at a point now of  'we are throwing them away, just pay some shipping pls'


At this price I have to wonder if they even power on.


----------



## sanity8me

Surprised that I'm not seeing any mw07 plus sales for Black Friday. Not even on their website.


----------



## Caipirina

cwill said:


> At this price I have to wonder if they even power on.



Could be used as a thief deterrent, if only they didn't look so cheap


----------



## chinmie (Nov 29, 2019)

webvan said:


> Let us know how it goes. I would have thought that running would be the ultimate thump test, unless there's no suspension on your bike and you have hard rubber tires ?  Ah unfortunately my Nillkin Go order got cancelled by AliExpress for some reason so I won't be able to see if they also work for me without "the thump" while running





Caipirina said:


> Only did 6K Fartleks with them this morning ... and they sure 'thump' ... not as bad as others that I have to jam up my earcanals, but it is there. And after using the X12 the last few days, it is a bit annoying, but I guess I can get used to it again ... the ANC is just lovely! And sit very securely and unobtrusive. For that 180BPM EDM playlist I was jamming to today, I was happy with the SQ.
> 
> Have not checked on the soaked X12 yet.



Like Caipirina said, the Nillkin still do thump, but much less than most IEMs. I've tested the T1 for motorcycle riding, and it has similar non rumbling thump like the Nillkin, but with more noise rejection, possibly because of the more dense material. But the downside is it hurts my ears from the helmet pressure. I will try mod it to reduce the pressure.

@Caipirina when you said ANC, which TWS are you referring to? The APP, i presume?


----------



## wksoh (Nov 29, 2019)

ld100 said:


> Sorry buddy but based on the gear you have he is more your kind of guy


Truth is  I dislike most of the gear I have....... kept them because too lazy to sell...
I like only the SSK and Mpow M5


----------



## d3myz

The Fiil T1x is $10 off right now. $40 is a great price for these.


----------



## georgelai57

I can’t decide between my AirPods Pro and my Sony WF-1000XM3 as my favorite TWS so I won’t. I need both my left hand and my right hand to clap.


----------



## Caipirina

chinmie said:


> @Caipirina when you said ANC, which TWS are you referring to? The APP, i pressume?


You presume correctly


----------



## d3myz

These companies. sheesh. Do they think they can buy me like Gamesky?


----------



## bronco1015

d3myz said:


> That's Awesome! thanks for testing that out.


 no prob. It's first world, because not like theres extra effort with this or anything, but will be nice3 on the next update when during the pairing process, you're phone will just auto pair to each individually, similar to how Apple does with the W1 and whatever it's sequal is called.


----------



## bronco1015

magi44ken said:


> That's sounds awesome. Thank you for spending the time to test it.
> 
> This might  be the perfect TWS iem for me since it have a good microphone that's comparable to AirPod Pro and long 7 plus battery life.
> 
> Now I just hope revision 3 fix the hiss and not too sound signature is too bright for me.


 Of course. One thing i will add though, if you don't currently have a snapdragon 845 or newer, then as long as each earbud has the specs to work indipendently, you could still pair them each to your phone and have similar results. My friend's phone has the 835, and i first paired the main earbud for the set she was using, then both worked together. Then i put the earbud which was acting as the master in the case, which forced the other in to pairing mode. I paired it and it worked just fine of course, then i took out the other earbud and they synced almost immediately. I then put both back in the case, pulled 1 out it paired, put it back. Pulled out the other and it did the same. This is wordy, but point is that even with older sources, as long as each bud has the capability to be used in mono, you're still able to get the same benefit.


----------



## Muessig

Looks like the Lypertek Tevi's are on Amazon for £30 off in the Black Friday deals - down to £69!

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Lypertek-W...tek&qid=1575023356&smid=A2TDGS35ICMVBF&sr=8-3


----------



## Bartig

ggpete said:


> Would you recommend the GT2/GT1 or T5's as a replacement for QS2's? Also do you know the Anomoibuds IP010 PLUS or Mpow's t6 by any chance?


The GT2 and T5's are great upgrades over the QS2. Both very recommended.



Audiokuluttaja said:


> Could I get a top 3 under 60$ TWE listing BUT with emphasis _only_ on SQ? Best sound wins.
> 
> Disregard calling abilities(don't call that much) / track or volume change from the buds(changes done on the phone or computer) / youtube lag etc. and battery life _UNLESS under 2.5h_ without a charge.
> 
> ...


My new current favorite is the Bomaker Sifi I just reviewed. LOVE the sound.



d3myz said:


> These companies. sheesh. Do they think they can buy me like Gamesky?


Hmm, will that be why it takes so long for Tranya products to arrive at my doorstep? After some 4 star reviews, they know of my honesty by now...


----------



## Audiokuluttaja

Bartig said:


> My new current favorite is the Bomaker Sifi I just reviewed. LOVE the sound.



thanks!


----------



## mattedialdoc (Nov 29, 2019)

Bartig said:


> My new current favorite is the Bomaker Sifi I just reviewed. LOVE the sound..



Ha yes, I knew you would love the Bomaker. Glad you finally were able to try them out!! And all that for $30 USD.


----------



## al2813

Hi, I want to get a TWS which supports multipoint. I only found the Jabra 75T but wondering if there's a cheaper alternative? Call quality is important (I will use them mostly for that) so need this as well.


----------



## gibletzor

d3myz said:


> These companies. sheesh. Do they think they can buy me like Gamesky?


Nice of them to offer a replacement, but that does leave a sour taste in your mouth when you realize they're just trying to buy 5 star reviews.     I know every company wants positive reviews for their products but they have to expect some people won't like them.


----------



## mattedialdoc

gibletzor said:


> Nice of them to offer a replacement, but that does leave a sour taste in your mouth when you realize they're just trying to buy 5 star reviews.     I know every company wants positive reviews for their products but they have to expect some people won't like them.



how are most of you guys getting free product? do you email the company? with Tranya they have you buy it and then they refund.


----------



## gibletzor

mattedialdoc said:


> how are most of you guys getting free product? do you email the company? with Tranya they have you buy it and then they refund.


There are some Facebook groups that randomly have TWS up for a "buy it and we'll refund it" type of deal.  Tranya posted such an offer on their own Facebook for the release of the B530 and several of us here took advantage of it.  They refund your Amazon purchase through Paypal after you review it.  They offered the same deal with the Rimor.


----------



## Quicky32

Aukey T10 on sale for $71.49 at Amazon.  Jim from Jim'sreviewroom seems to like these a lot...


----------



## Caipirina

Bartig said:


> My new current favorite is the Bomaker Sifi I just reviewed. LOVE the sound.



Maybe good it is amazon only (and I currently have no access), otherwise I'd be tempted to get that one as well  
 Already ordered the new Haylou today based on your glowing review. Despite being in 7th heaven with my APP, I still feel the occasional itch (well, Black Friday and such) to get more cheap chi-fi TWS


----------



## mattedialdoc

Caipirina said:


> Maybe good it is amazon only (and I currently have no access), otherwise I'd be tempted to get that one as well
> Already ordered the new Haylou today based on your glowing review. Despite being in 7th heaven with my APP, I still feel the occasional itch (well, Black Friday and such) to get more cheap chi-fi TWS



you and I might be the only ones loving the APP so much here! I fully admit they don’t sound as good as some cheap chi-fi, but the overall package is brilliant. I still hope we get some good aftermarket tips, as I still lose “fit” on occasion. Especially if I’m working out. But the ANC is awesome.


----------



## Timastyle

I just bought the Bomaker off Amazon. They have a $15 off coupon making them $35. Couldn't pass it up. Same day delivery so I'll get to listen and co.pare to the SSK and Melomania.


----------



## Caipirina (Nov 29, 2019)

mattedialdoc said:


> you and I might be the only ones loving the APP so much here! I fully admit they don’t sound as good as some cheap chi-fi, but the overall package is brilliant. I still hope we get some good aftermarket tips, as I still lose “fit” on occasion. Especially if I’m working out. But the ANC is awesome.



That's pretty exactly it. I admit that they could have better SQ, but it is not bad either. It is kinda neutral as in 'mainstream', trying to make everyone a bit happy 
I am super impressed with the ANC and even more with the easy fit. No jamming in, no fiddling around, they just sit there and fit awesomely! And re-adjusting them does not trigger a pause or last number called  the controls are great!
I feel like I want to buy a second set so I can swap out when battery is down ... I want my whole audio world filtered through that ANC (I live in a noisy place!)

Funny observation on flight today. (Besides only taking my Bose QC35 out to connect by cable to watch a bit of on-board TV), with the ambient sound muffled so much, I was able to pick up other sounds that normally you would not be able to hear, i.e. some dude's noise leaking headphones all across the other side of the plane!

And of course it would be awesomer if they did not have the runner's thud sound.

As you said, the 'complete package' is pretty darn fantastic!


----------



## Mouseman

d3myz said:


> These companies. sheesh. Do they think they can buy me like Gamesky?


I had about the same conversation. I don't think I'll be bothering with any comped Tranyas from now on. I'm not sure why a 4 star review (which was generous) would be such a huge issue.


----------



## ld100

wksoh said:


> Truth is  I dislike most of the gear I have....... kept them because too lazy to sell...
> I like only the SSK and Mpow M5



See, like to enjoy the gear I get. This is the reason why I am not that happy with the purchases made based on various reviews. I am somewhat puzzled why certain TW get praised so high when my experience with them is very negative...


----------



## ld100

gibletzor said:


> There are some Facebook groups that randomly have TWS up for a "buy it and we'll refund it" type of deal.  Tranya posted such an offer on their own Facebook for the release of the B530 and several of us here took advantage of it.  They refund your Amazon purchase through Paypal after you review it.  They offered the same deal with the Rimor.




That kind of explains why I get products from Amazon that are absolutelly horrible despite numerous gleaming reviews...


----------



## surfacecube

Just received my 1more Stylish, I like the sound. I come from a Syllable 101 where I couldn't listen to any music with them because they were far too muddy. The Stylish solves this problem for me except... They just do not fit my ears 

Not the first time I'm having this problem with TWS but it's getting old 

So they're probably coming back to the seller if I can send them back. A shame because they were a steal for 45 euros on Aliexpress.

I feel like I'm either going to buy another TWS or just wait for the Google Buds 2


----------



## Soul_Viper

Have soooo many doubts right now, please let me know which one you buy in terms of comfort (1) and then pure SQ (2)

1. bomaker sifi 37€
2. galaxy buds 92€
3. b&o beoplay h8 2.0 93€
4. mw07 original 130€
5. mw07 go 190€


----------



## d3myz (Nov 29, 2019)

Audiokuluttaja said:


> thanks!





mattedialdoc said:


> Ha yes, I knew you would love the Bomaker. Glad you finally were able to try them out!! And all that for $30 USD.



If you like the bowmaker, you'll love the T1x. better, cleaner highs IMO, more akin to the tevi. and btw where did the TEVI go? it's not on amazon anymore.


----------



## d3myz

mattedialdoc said:


> how are most of you guys getting free product? do you email the company? with Tranya they have you buy it and then they refund.


That's how it always works. e-mail ida@tranya ask her to test the Rimor.


----------



## d3myz

I picked up the Sabbat X12 Ultra, for $63 on amazon. Also looking at the Shanling MTW100. and if so, DD or BA version? I'm finding I really love the L2pro and the MW07, my sony's will be here Sat. maybe i'll wait.


----------



## mattedialdoc

d3myz said:


> That's how it always works. e-mail ida@tranya ask her to test the Rimor.



yes I’ve done that with Tranya. I was wondering about other companies, and how folks find out about that option. Sounds like i need to be on Facebook!


----------



## webvan

Soul_Viper said:


> Have soooo many doubts right now, please let me know which one you buy in terms of comfort (1) and then pure SQ (2)
> 
> 1. bomaker sifi 37€
> 2. galaxy buds 92€
> ...



Can't help as I have none of these but where are you seeing these excellent prices in Europe ? Best I've seen for the mw07 original is 140€ as an Amazon Warehouse Deal with 20% off today and the Go is not available.


----------



## Pete7874

ld100 said:


> That kind of explains why I get products from Amazon that are absolutelly horrible despite numerous gleaming reviews...


Yup. Sadly many Amazon reviews can no longer be trusted since they were given in exchange for free product.  Even Fakespot can't usually spot these.


----------



## d3myz

mattedialdoc said:


> yes I’ve done that with Tranya. I was wondering about other companies, and how folks find out about that option. Sounds like i need to be on Facebook!


Join a bunch of the facebook tester groups. they you'll start seeing ads. and people will start sending you products though fb messenger. from vacuums to christmas decorations. LOL. and LOTS of chargers, powerbanks, TWS' etc.


----------



## gibletzor

ld100 said:


> That kind of explains why I get products from Amazon that are absolutelly horrible despite numerous gleaming reviews...


I've left 4 star reviews and still got comped.  I just stand my ground and tell them I don't like being dishonest when they ask me to change it.


----------



## d3myz

Mouseman said:


> I had about the same conversation. I don't think I'll be bothering with any comped Tranyas from now on. I'm not sure why a 4 star review (which was generous) would be such a huge issue.


Well, if I really did get a defective product, which i most likely didnt' i'm going to send them back and get my money back. If they want to send me another pair for free, great. either way it's a win.


----------



## d3myz

gibletzor said:


> I've left 4 star reviews and still got comped.  I just stand my ground and tell them I don't like being dishonest when they ask me to change it.


I'm the same. 3 stars was probably too harsh anyway. I was just so pissed about how poorly they sounded and how long I waited for them. The misleading noise canceling and the 10mm driver etc. To add insult to injury, a few days later I get the MW07 and start testing against the B530 and realized how truly incredible the B530 is. If it ain't broke. who wouldn't want a better more refined sounding B530 with a 10mm driver?


----------



## wksoh (Nov 29, 2019)

ld100 said:


> See, like to enjoy the gear I get. This is the reason why I am not that happy with the purchases made based on various reviews. I am somewhat puzzled why certain TW get praised so high when my experience with them is very negative...


Yes bought them based on rave reviews 
Need to unload them... (Commented in brackets the reason I don't like them)


----------



## HiFlight

Jabra 75t Firmware Update!
I received an automatic notification yesterday that there was a new firmware available for download.  I completed the update without issue and when I again connected, I noticed a vast improvement in 3 areas, the most striking was the change in the sound quality!  The overdone bass was gone and the default tonality is nicely balanced from the low bass to the upper treble.  Instrumental timbre overall sounds impressively realistic.   I also noticed that the volume of the vocal guidance has been lowered, pretty much matching that of the music listening level.  I also feel that the audio quality of the hear-through option has been improved.
Given Jabra's 30 day return policy,  the 75t should now be quite attractive to those seeking a full-featured TOTL TWS monitor!


----------



## webvan

Rtings review of the Amazon Echo Buds is out : https://www.rtings.com/headphones/reviews/amazon/echo-buds-truly-wireless
Having had them for 3 weeks now and having had the APPs, Sony XM3s (and Libratone Track AIR+ not yet reviewed by Rtings) I pretty much agree with what they say, particularly for isolation which is the best I've ever experienced, especially since the wings guarantee that you don't lose the seal (at the possible expense in the long run of slight discomfort). The ANR is less "spectacular" than the APPs/XM3s ANC but that's because the passive isolation is excellent, as they rightly point out. The ANR gives the "little extra" that other isolating TWEs like the 65Ts lack. Their comments about SQ ring true to although I can't say I've been annoyed by any harshness. The tips may insert fairly deeply but they're small so cause very litte pressure on the canal. I can't stand that kind of pressure as I found with the Melomania or the XM3s (had to ram them in to get a good seal).
I can't say I've noticed any problems with latency though like they did. I've watched many YT videos on my aging Lenovo P2 running Android 7 and have not been bothered at all, like I remember being, by say the Sony XM1s.
Hopefully this will encourage more headfiers to give them a try, as there are only 3 of us here by my latest count


----------



## hifi80sman

HiFlight said:


> Jabra 75t Firmware Update!
> I received an automatic notification yesterday that there was a new firmware available for download.  I completed the update without issue and when I again connected, I noticed a vast improvement in 3 areas, the most striking was the change in the sound quality!  The overdone bass was gone and the default tonality is nicely balanced from the low bass to the upper treble.  Instrumental timbre overall sounds impressively realistic.   I also noticed that the volume of the vocal guidance has been lowered, pretty much matching that of the music listening level.  I also feel that the audio quality of the hear-through option has been improved.
> Given Jabra's 30 day return policy,  the 75t should now be quite attractive to those seeking a full-featured TOTL TWS monitor!


Have you tried the APP?  How does the "new" sound compare to the APP?


----------



## Soul_Viper (Nov 29, 2019)

Any owner of the bomaker sifi that could tell me if they are compatible with other eartips?


----------



## HiFlight (Nov 29, 2019)

hifi80sman said:


> Have you tried the APP?  How does the "new" sound compare to the APP?


Have not tried the APP as I live in the Android ecosystem, but the sound is now right up there with my Mavin Air-X, L2P and Librasone Track Air+.  The 75t is, however, the clear winner in useful features and settings options.


----------



## gibletzor

webvan said:


> Rtings review of the Amazon Echo Buds is out : https://www.rtings.com/headphones/reviews/amazon/echo-buds-truly-wireless
> Having had them for 3 weeks now and having had the APPs, Sony XM3s (and Libratone Track AIR+ not yet reviewed by Rtings) I pretty much agree with what they say, particularly for isolation which is the best I've ever experienced, especially since the wings guarantee that you don't lose the seal (at the possible expense in the long run of slight discomfort). The ANR is less "spectacular" than the APPs/XM3s ANC but that's because the passive isolation is excellent, as they rightly point out. The ANR gives the "little extra" that other isolating TWEs like the 65Ts lack. Their comments about SQ ring true to although I can't say I've been annoyed by any harshness. The tips may insert fairly deeply but they're small so cause very litte pressure on the canal. I can't stand that kind of pressure as I found with the Melomania or the XM3s (had to ram them in to get a good seal).
> I can't say I've noticed any problems with latency though like they did. I've watched many YT videos on my aging Lenovo P2 running Android 7 and have not been bothered at all, like I remember being, by say the Sony XM1s.
> Hopefully this will encourage more headfiers to give them a try, as there are only 3 of us here by my latest count


I ended up sending my 2nd pair of Echo Buds back.  Both my first pair and the replacement pair had issues with the touch controls.  I loved the SQ, Passthrough quality, ANR, fit and comfort, pretty much everything.  I can't stand not being able to control them without using the app on my phone though.  Maybe it's just something about my skin, but none of my other touch buds have issues...


----------



## LordToneeus

Received my Soundcore Liberty 2 Pro’s yesterday and I was immediately blown away by the sound. I hadn’t even messed with ear tips/wings, and still haven’t downloaded the app, but these are bar none the best TWS I’ve ever heard. There is an airiness, spaciousness to the sound. All frequencies are checked, and cranking them up just makes them sound better - nothing gets harsh or piercing. 

I’m guessing I got the second batch, cuz I ordered them last Saturday and got them yesterday. The hiss? I wouldn’t call it a hiss. I can tell they’re on.  That’s the most I’d say about it. 

Fit is comfy for me. I tried jumping rope, and they felt like they might dislodge, though they never did. Still, that feeling itself was enough to turn me off to that experience.  Training with weights I had no issues. I may try to run with them tomorrow. In any event, I have other buds for rigorous exercise.  

I was worried about how they sit outside the ear, but I needn’t have been. They’re really very understated, and I feel fine wearing them. I did get them when both discounts were working. So very happy so far with these.


----------



## mattedialdoc

Soul_Viper said:


> Any owner of the bomaker sifi that could tell me if they are compatible with other eartips?



yes I use comply tips


----------



## Soul_Viper

mattedialdoc said:


> yes I use comply tips



thanks! which model?


----------



## FYLegend

Decided on the Tronsmart Onyx Neo.

How legit are the Facebook amazon refund deals? I keep seeing ads claiming to refund full or half of what I pay but it seems really sketchy and some people say it violates Amazon policy.


----------



## Bartig

d3myz said:


> I picked up the Sabbat X12 Ultra, for $63 on amazon. Also looking at the Shanling MTW100. and if so, DD or BA version? I'm finding I really love the L2pro and the MW07, my sony's will be here Sat. maybe i'll wait.


The Balanced Armature version! That seems to be the original. The dynamic driver version is tuned to act like a balanced armature, which doesn’t work...



Soul_Viper said:


> Any owner of the bomaker sifi that could tell me if they are compatible with other eartips?


Works fine... except you probably can’t put them in the case to charge anymore.


----------



## mattedialdoc

Soul_Viper said:


> thanks! which model?


The ones designed for TWS. I think mine are originally for galaxy buds.


----------



## mattedialdoc

Bartig said:


> Works fine... except you probably can’t put them in the case to charge anymore.



the comply tips for TWS fit
In the case fine


----------



## HiFlight

mattedialdoc said:


> yes I use comply tips


I use UE900 tips (L).


----------



## FYLegend (Nov 29, 2019)

delete


----------



## falang

Ok, finally got a good fit with the Liberty 2 Pro after many tip and wing combinations. Yay! 

First real impressions, wow, these are bit bright in the highs....on most of the eq settings. Anyone compare them directly with the Sony's in terms of fit, isolation, and sound quality? 

I'm considering the Sony's but I worry about fiddling with another tws that is difficult to fit


----------



## bronco1015

well, it happened, heres an email i got from amazon on wednesday night.
Hello,
We noticed that you have requested multiple returns in the last few months.
We are always learning and thinking of ways to improve the shopping experience for our customers.  We would like to understand any problems you might be having with your orders.
If you have any feedback for us, please feel free to contact our Customer Service team via the link  below: www.amazon.com/contact-us
You can learn more about our return policies in the Returns, Refunds and Title section of the  Conditions of Use, available at the link below: www.amazon.com/conditionsofuse
Sincerely,
Account Specialist
Amazon.com


----------



## cwill

bronco1015 said:


> well, it happened, heres an email i got from amazon on wednesday night.
> Hello,
> We noticed that you have requested multiple returns in the last few months.
> We are always learning and thinking of ways to improve the shopping experience for our customers.  We would like to understand any problems you might be having with your orders.
> ...


I've been getting those for months now.


----------



## Caipirina

Pete7874 said:


> Yup. Sadly many Amazon reviews can no longer be trusted since they were given in exchange for free product.  Even Fakespot can't usually spot these.



Here is an excellent article on those 'real purchase / fake reviews' kinda circle of life ... makes one cringe
https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/nicolenguyen/her-amazon-purchases-are-real-the-reviews-are-fake


----------



## bronco1015

cwill said:


> I've been getting those for months now.


oh good to know. I really wanna buy some beyers that i can't test anywhere, and i think i'll end up keeping them, that is the goal anyway, i have like 1 store kind of close to where i'm at, but most places if they have anything here have only  2 channel stuff. One store had oppo pm3s when was looking at them a few years ago, and the store is still around, but since oppo Digital isn't anymore, i don't think the store has brought in a new Headphone brand to replace them. i'll keep on keepin on then, if you've gotten these for months lol.


----------



## bronco1015

Just checked amazon for some possible deals, here are 3 worth posting that i saw. Dudios zues-air which a rebranded QCY t1C is $27.99 with the option to apply an additional 20% off coupon.
i believe someone posted a similar price for this next one several pages back but thought i'd mention it here anyway if anyone's interested. The sennheiser momentum true wireless is $209.99.
The Plantronics backbeat pro 5100, great for call quality especially, are $134.30. personally i think these need to go down inprice mor, but headed in the right direction at least.


----------



## Invalid

Has anyone tried these? ZNT Soundcool


----------



## assassin10000

Been a while since I ordered a TWS as I mostly prefer using my BT20S with various earbuds. 

But caved and ordered the newer version of the Tronsmart Spunky Beat, the one with volume control & no blinking light.


----------



## Caipirina

assassin10000 said:


> Been a while since I ordered a TWS as I mostly prefer using my BT20S with various earbuds.
> 
> But caved and ordered the newer version of the Tronsmart Spunky Beat, the one with volume control & no blinking light.


There is a new version? 

Also, anyone tried the Tronsmart Onyx Neo yet?


----------



## assassin10000 (Nov 30, 2019)

Caipirina said:


> There is a new version?
> 
> Also, anyone tried the Tronsmart Onyx Neo yet?





According to the 'Tronsmart Offical Store' listing it is. 

The integrated usb a cord is 'neat' but I'd rather have wireless charging as an option. I just don't see myself using it. Otherwise it hits the high points for me. Good battery life, APT-X, volume control, can be used individually and no blinking.


----------



## Caipirina (Nov 30, 2019)

has anyone heard of these / tried these? UTRAI AirOn 2

They seem to have a different ear tip design ... and I like those rubber flanges .. but no idea about the sound ...



Found them on Amazon with loads of 'suspicious' reviews. Like this one that says they magically stay in your ears ... clearly this person has no clue as to how they are supposed to fit


----------



## duo8

assassin10000 said:


> According to the 'Tronsmart Offical Store' listing it is.
> 
> The integrated usb a cord is 'neat' but I'd rather have wireless charging as an option. I just don't see myself using it. Otherwise it hits the high points for me. Good battery life, APT-X, volume control, can be used individually and no blinking.


They do have a model with wireless charging. Wireless charging doesn't seem to be very high on the feature priority list of TWS makers, unless they plan to make it a major selling point.
You can do an ugly mod to have wireless charging maybe.
Also the battery life is about 4hr and 20 mins, which is average IMO.
And mine still blinks every 5 secs or so.


----------



## chinmie

Invalid said:


> Has anyone tried these? ZNT Soundcool



The last time i tried a ZNT TWS, it sounded like listening to AM radios.. i'm afraid to try another one of their's after that


----------



## Soul_Viper

Bartig said:


> The Balanced Armature version! That seems to be the original. The dynamic driver version is tuned to act like a balanced armature, which doesn’t work...
> 
> 
> Works fine... except you probably can’t put them in the case to charge anymore.




Thanks!!! I would also congratulate you for all your efforts and your fantastic website, finally I bought the Bomaker after reading your recent review


----------



## pokenguyen

falang said:


> Ok, finally got a good fit with the Liberty 2 Pro after many tip and wing combinations. Yay!
> 
> First real impressions, wow, these are bit bright in the highs....on most of the eq settings. Anyone compare them directly with the Sony's in terms of fit, isolation, and sound quality?
> 
> I'm considering the Sony's but I worry about fiddling with another tws that is difficult to fit


It's better than Sony in term of fit isolation and SQ. IMO it's only lost to MW07.


----------



## falang

pokenguyen said:


> It's better than Sony in term of fit isolation and SQ. IMO it's only lost to MW07.



Interesting.  Ok, I think I'll wait for new versions of the Galaxy Buds, Sony, and the One More ANC to come out.  Or perhaps the Jabra 75T - just wish it had ANC or aptX at least. 

I imagine there might be a wave of ANC TWS on the horizon given the success of the APP.  Hopefully Sony has something newish up their sleeves rather than a mild improvement like their WH series showed in subsequent versions.


----------



## pokenguyen

Soul_Viper said:


> Have soooo many doubts right now, please let me know which one you buy in terms of comfort (1) and then pure SQ (2)
> 
> 1. bomaker sifi 37€
> 2. galaxy buds 92€
> ...


Comfort:
3 > 5 > 4 > 2
SQ
4=5 > 3 > 2
I never heard 1.


----------



## Soul_Viper

pokenguyen said:


> Comfort:
> 3 > 5 > 4 > 2
> SQ
> 4=5 > 3 > 2
> I never heard 1.



thanks mate!!


----------



## Quicky32

Still not used to the fit on the LP2 and the highs are really bright on some songs.  I listened to them for 35 minutes on rock, piano, flat, and EQ off all on my IPod.  They hurt my ears a bit...


----------



## webvan

gibletzor said:


> I ended up sending my 2nd pair of Echo Buds back.  Both my first pair and the replacement pair had issues with the touch controls.  I loved the SQ, Passthrough quality, ANR, fit and comfort, pretty much everything.  I can't stand not being able to control them without using the app on my phone though.  Maybe it's just something about my skin, but none of my other touch buds have issues...


Sorry to hear that. It's hard to imagine would be causing that and it's unlikely it's a fluke since you tried two units. I did notice that when they are NOT connected over BT they generally don't respond to taps, they just stay in the mode they were in when you put them in the box, that's hardly a problem though.


----------



## falang

Quicky32 said:


> Still not used to the fit on the LP2 and the highs are really bright on some songs.  I listened to them for 35 minutes on rock, piano, flat, and EQ off all on my IPod.  They hurt my ears a bit...


 
Keep trying.  I was about to give up myself but I finally found a wing and tip combo that works.  But I feel that they don't isolate as well as I had hoped.   I agree, definitely bright on some songs, but I also understand the love they get as well as they feel a lot wider than my Anbes. Though the Anbes fit me perfectly and give me amazing isolation.


----------



## falang

webvan said:


> Sorry to hear that. It's hard to imagine would be causing that and it's unlikely it's a fluke since you tried two units. I did notice that when they are NOT connected over BT they generally don't respond to taps, they just stay in the mode they were in when you put them in the box, that's hardly a problem though.



How are the echo buds ANR for travel?  Have you tried them on a plane or mass transit?  I'd give them a shot but they are not available to deliver to Hong Kong yet.


----------



## Caipirina

assassin10000 said:


> According to the 'Tronsmart Offical Store' listing it is.
> 
> The integrated usb a cord is 'neat' but I'd rather have wireless charging as an option. I just don't see myself using it. Otherwise it hits the high points for me. Good battery life, APT-X, volume control, can be used individually and no blinking.



Darn, I really should have waited with my order. What idiot orders between 11.11 and BF?   (me me me!)


----------



## duo8

Caipirina said:


> Darn, I really should have waited with my order. What idiot orders between 11.11 and BF?   (me me me!)


Me. I had it worse, bought an "open box" pair of WF-1000XM3 from ebay for $175 3 days before someone from here sells a lot of new units for $160 each.
Mine arrived with scratches on the case.


----------



## magi44ken

HiFlight said:


> Jabra 75t Firmware Update!
> I received an automatic notification yesterday that there was a new firmware available for download.  I completed the update without issue and when I again connected, I noticed a vast improvement in 3 areas, the most striking was the change in the sound quality!  The overdone bass was gone and the default tonality is nicely balanced from the low bass to the upper treble.  Instrumental timbre overall sounds impressively realistic.   I also noticed that the volume of the vocal guidance has been lowered, pretty much matching that of the music listening level.  I also feel that the audio quality of the hear-through option has been improved.
> Given Jabra's 30 day return policy,  the 75t should now be quite attractive to those seeking a full-featured TOTL TWS monitor!



Notice any improvement with microphone with the update?


----------



## HiFlight (Nov 30, 2019)

magi44ken said:


> Notice any improvement with microphone with the update?


I haven't made any calls on them since the update.  Hopefully, I will get a chance to try it today.

EDIT:
I have made several calls this afternoon from my 75t and all were reported as sounding excellent.  I also called my wife who has bat-like hearing and she said my call sounded much better than calls made directly from my phone.  From my end, the SQ sounded quite similar to the SQ of my custom EQ.  One can also mute calls and toggle sidetone via the left multifunction button.


----------



## gibby

I read a few pages here to find the best at any cost.  Still haven't found that.  Maybe Jabra Elite t75?  Or might just get WH1000MX3.  Really just want wireless good quality.  I don't expect a reply or answer since there are a lot of unanswered questions in this thread.

I did notice that the *Bomaker have a $15 coupon on Amazon.  I'll try them at $35.*


----------



## Timastyle

I got the Bomaker Sifi last night and compared it to my SSK. The Sifi has more bass and warmth, but it's also looser in the lows and the vocals are recessed a bit. The SSK has more pronounced vocals, tighter bass albeit not as impactful for me and much better soundstage. 

I had the volume almost turned up all the way on the Sifi so I can get more voclas where I can't turn the SSK past 70% or the vocals get too high. If the vocals were a little less pronounced and I could increase the volume a little more, I'm sure the bass would be more impactful. 

For reference, I used the SpinFit 360 L on both and while the SSK feels locked in place, the Sifi feels as though it could fall out. Seal doesn't feel as tight especially in the right ear. 

I hope this helps anyone looking at both of these. I'm not an audiophile and just learning the terminology thanks to the sticky in this forum.


----------



## chinmie

my Anker Liberty Neo had arrived yesterday, sounds quite good, nice polished sound with nice deep bass and clean mids and treble, kinda like my Galaxy buds. build quality of the unit is nice with some rubbery parts and buttons. sadly no volume control, but not really a big problem. listed battery life of 3.5 hours seems puny compared to others at 6 hour standard, but I've been testing this from 7 PM yesterday, using it on and off on my flight, now it's been around 6 hours of intermittent play and standby, the battery shows about 40 percent left..so at least for everyday usage scenario it's good enough. I'll test full playtime later when i get back home. overall this and the GGMM T1 (though this one a bit finicky fit on my ears, but love the sound and controls) both are satisfying purchases


----------



## Caipirina

chinmie said:


> my Anker Liberty Neo had arrived yesterday, sounds quite good, nice polished sound with nice deep bass and clean mids and treble, kinda like my Galaxy buds. build quality of the unit is nice with some rubbery parts and buttons. sadly no volume control, but not really a big problem. listed battery life of 3.5 hours seems puny compared to others at 6 hour standard, but I've been testing this from 7 PM yesterday, using it on and off on my flight, now it's been around 6 hours of intermittent play and standby, the battery shows about 40 percent left..so at least for everyday usage scenario it's good enough. I'll test full playtime later when i get back home. overall this and the GGMM T1 (though this one a bit finicky fit on my ears, but love the sound and controls) both are satisfying purchases


Nice! My neos are listed as ‘arrived at post office’, so maybe I get them on Monday. 
I wish I remember what made we want those  Rubbery parts sounds good let’s see how they fit.


----------



## Caipirina

What are the chances that Apple / beats manages to cram the great ANC of the APP into the Powerbeats pro? And what would they call them? Pro Pro? 

I was so impressed with the bass when I tried them, I am wondering if I should get a pair used from e-earphone for about 150$ (they currently even list a closed box ‘pre-owned’ for 17900¥) ...


----------



## clerkpalmer

Caipirina said:


> What are the chances that Apple / beats manages to cram the great ANC of the APP into the Powerbeats pro? And what would they call them? Pro Pro?
> 
> I was so impressed with the bass when I tried them, I am wondering if I should get a pair used from e-earphone for about 150$ (they currently even list a closed box ‘pre-owned’ for 17900¥) ...



i don’t see that happening anytime soon. Pb pro are a decent option at 150. Biggest issue is external noise gets let in. Kind of like the bose. The l2p beats them handily in my opinion IF and this is a big IF fit is not an issue. I’m growing more and more frustrated with the fussy fit of the anker. Can take several tries to find the sweet spot. No such issues with pb pro.


----------



## magi44ken

HiFlight said:


> I haven't made any calls on them since the update.  Hopefully, I will get a chance to try it today.
> 
> EDIT:
> I have made several calls this afternoon from my 75t and all were reported as sounding excellent.  I also called my wife who has bat-like hearing and she said my call sounded much better than calls made directly from my phone.  From my end, the SQ sounded quite similar to the SQ of my custom EQ.  One can also mute calls and toggle sidetone via the left multifunction button.



Thanks for testing. That's sounds very promising. I found a YouTube review for the previous firmware:

75t starts at 5.20


Is much better than the above?

In case you see the comparison, for:

Apple Airpod Pros starts at 9.25


Liberty 2 Pro starts at 5.20


L2P as good APP

Thanks.


----------



## dweaver

Wow  I bought the Neutron music player years ago with my LG phones and ended up using the default LG music player because it was less clunky and sounded as good.

Never thought to try it when I switched to Samsung. But when I wanted to tweak the EQ more than the default Samsung app allowed I gave Neutron a try again. It is a massive upgrade over the default music apps on Samsung! Still clunky but so much better from an audio perspective.

Headphone Bar has BF sale of the MW07 for $219Cad, almost wishing I had waited as I might have bought them instead of L2P. But I am enjoying the L2P a ton EQ'ed and enjoy using them all day without issue and their excellent call quality so think I should just be happy with what I bought...


----------



## Spamateur (Nov 30, 2019)

I got a pair of the Soundcore L2P to try out that arrived this morning. They're really excellent. I love it when a company actually listens to what the market wants and doesn't cut corners.

A few thoughts:


*Ownership experience:*
- Super comfortable, among the best IEMs that I've tried in this regard, period. Luckily I had no fit issues and I'm using them with the stock tips and wings that came installed out of the box. This is the first time this has ever happened to me, no joke.

- Charging case is excellent in terms of size and functionality (wireless charging AND USB-C... holy cats!), and the overall build quality is light years better than my Mavin Air-X or even the Sennheiser MTW.

- Great packaging. Anker is doing a great job making these feel like a premium device to compete with the big boys.

- The app actually works as designed! I'm shocked considering how crap most of these apps are. However, give me a dang 12-band EQ that I can customize. None of this preset junk is worth using when all I want to do is drop the bass by a couple decibels.

- Great range and connectivity from my initial experience. I've had zero drops in a few hours of listening and I went into the other room without a hiccup with my phone being 2 thick walls and probably 20 feet away.


*Sound:*
- Some hiss, but not egregiously bad. Out of the box the app updated them to the latest firmware. I'm not sure if that means if I have the latest version or not, but they were ordered on Thursday night from Amazon so I'd assume they're new stock.

- Bassy. I like bass, but this is just barely keeping from straying into "too much" territory. The good news is the bass is tight and fast enough to not be annoying. One of my bass test tracks is "Dream House" by Deafheaven, which features a ridiculously fast double kick bass drum right out of the gate while lead vocalist screams and screeches over tons of swirling, distorted guitars. The L2P delivered the entire experience without ever getting muddy or confused. Excellent!

- I tried the other EQ settings but actually found the HearID sounds the best. Overall the L2P is verging on a V-shaped signature and the HearID seemed to bring the vocals a bit more forward so the mids weren't as recessed.

- The "Acoustic" EQ setting immediately started the drivers clicking like crazy as if they were bottoming out or hitting the driver housing. Something is terribly wrong here.

- I can't quite figure out the treble on these. At times it sounds great, but other times the cymbals and hi-hats sound hashy and weirdly thin compared to the Mavins and my home stereo setup. It's inconsistent and depends on the track, but I don't have this same issue with the other IEMs and my stereo setup using the same tracks. This is really the only area where the sound isn't uniformly pleasing, but I'm mostly willing to chalk this up to some poorly mastered tracks.

- From memory, these are somewhat like a poor man's Sennheiser MTW in terms of sound signature, but falling a bit short in terms of ultimate clarity. I found the MTW to be a bit steely up top, but it was much cleaner and better controlled from top to bottom.



I'd give these a solid 9/10 in terms of build, and 8/10 in terms of function, and a 7.5/10 in terms of sound. As a complete package I don't can't think of a better TW model right now that doesn't have a major compromise in one way or another, plus Anker's history of customer support is pretty good and I really like that they're doubling down on creating compelling audiophile products after their first-gen TW models fell flat.

I got the Noble Falcon supposedly arriving tomorrow, so I'll do a quick comparison. Hopefully it's as good as the L2P.


----------



## CocaCola15

For L2P owners to consider: If the app annoys you (it does me) don’t use it. Try a player with a built-In EQ, if you listen to onboard tracks. I don’t use them for streaming Amazon HD, which I only do at home, preferring either the Sony WH-1000M3 or the Blon 03 with the Earstudio ES100, which both have EQ capabilities. Also, the Comply Audio Pro foam tips are great with the L2P, and fit in the case. These tips really get the treble right on the L2P.


----------



## Spamateur

CocaCola15 said:


> For L2P owners to consider: If the app annoys you (it does me) don’t use it. Try a player with a built-In EQ, if you listen to onboard tracks. I don’t use them for streaming Amazon HD, which I only do at home, preferring either the Sony WH-1000M3 or the Blon 03 with the Earstudio ES100, which both have EQ capabilities. Also, the Comply Audio Pro foam tips are great with the L2P, and fit in the case. These tips really get the treble right on the L2P.



Yup, this would be a great option, but I like that the app will write the EQ setting to the actual earpieces themselves so that the EQ effects are global and not limited to the one player. I use streaming with Tidal and Amazon Music and really only "buy" music on vinyl for home listening, so unfortunately this isn't an option. The app actually works shockingly well, but the addition of a user-customizable EQ like Jabra has versus the presets would be nice.

Thanks for the heads up about the Comply tips. I'm wary of making the L2P even more bassy, but I wouldn't mind a bit more isolation even though these are decent to begin with.


----------



## voicemaster

This is what I do when I like something


----------



## CocaCola15

Spamateur said:


> Yup, this would be a great option, but I like that the app will write the EQ setting to the actual earpieces themselves so that the EQ effects are global and not limited to the one player. I use streaming with Tidal and Amazon Music and really only "buy" music on vinyl for home listening, so unfortunately this isn't an option. The app actually works shockingly well, but the addition of a user-customizable EQ like Jabra has versus the presets would be nice.
> 
> Thanks for the heads up about the Comply tips. I'm wary of making the L2P even more bassy, but I wouldn't mind a bit more isolation even though these are decent to begin with.


Agree 100 percent that Anker needs to update the app with at least a minimal custom EQ option. None of the presets really work for me. The one designated as the default preset buries the mids I think. I love to be able to shape the sound a bit with my onboard music via the player I use.

As for the Comply, I know they are $22 for a set of three. I don't mind really, but others might (heck they can get a cheap TW pair of buds for that price nowadays). But they just really take any edge off the L2P up top when not using an EQ, which is what I do for streaming services. I don't even turn on the app in fact. I had some soreness from the wings and the Complys also give me a stronger seal and don't think they boost the bass, just maybe make the highs a bit less is all. Plus, while they stick out more with Complys, once I get them in place they seem to stay put for my uses, which is outdoor walking with dogs, cleaning the house, stuff like that. Again, for what people call critical listening, I turn to the Blon 03/ES100 or the full-sized Sony BT phones, sometimes with a cable and not the NC enginer (the sitting in a chair and really listening mode). Funny thing is I hardly even think to use a cable any more, I mean cable from phones to player (either my ancient iPod Classic 160GB or the IP8+). The ES100 has sort of taken that role.

I see we are both PSB speaker fans, though mine are ancient (but still sound great).


----------



## LordToneeus

voicemaster said:


> This is what I do when I like something



Totally missed the $10 off sale, and totally regretting it.


----------



## Quicky32

I’m going to put my L2P up for sale ( I assume I can’t return them) because I want something that fits better.  I’m new here and not sure what I should ask for them?


----------



## tinyman392

So I received the Noble Falcon TWS about a week or two ago.  They arrived while I was in DC for work and I got back to the Thanksgiving rush so I haven't had much time with them.  Initial impressions are that the boomy, hard slamming bass really stands out next to the very strong vocals (something the 4.Ai had lacked before it) and energetic mids and highs and very crunchy, hard treble.  Kind of a very unexpected sound signature since the previous headphones I've heard from The Wizard were both extraordinarily smooth sounding headphones overall (the Heir Audio 3.Ai and 4.Ai).  The fit is a bit odd for me as the IEM's stems are a little long and it seals a little too strongly with my ears which can lead to some driver flex issues in my right ear.  One major positive about them is that the case they come with is on the smaller side.  Volumetrically they are smaller than the AirPods Pro case (which are already on the small size).  Controls are very nice on the Falcon and straight forward to use.  The light up effects they have are also a very nice touch as well.


----------



## Pete7874

CocaCola15 said:


> For L2P owners to consider: If the app annoys you (it does me) don’t use it. Try a player with a built-In EQ, if you listen to onboard tracks.


For this to be a viable option, there would need to be a flat/no EQ setting in the app, so that you can use it as a clean starting point to use your player's EQ.  Otherwise, you'll just be layering two different EQs on top of each other, which is probably not ideal.  Anker should really add a no EQ option to the app, as well as a user customizable EQ, as others mentioned.


----------



## Pete7874

Quicky32 said:


> I’m going to put my L2P up for sale ( I assume I can’t return them) because I want something that fits better.  I’m new here and not sure what I should ask for them?


Did you buy them from Amazon.  If so, you  can return them if it' within 30 days.  You may have to pay for return shipping.


----------



## Blueshound24

Pete7874 said:


> For this to be a viable option, there would need to be a flat/no EQ setting in the app, so that you can use it as a clean starting point to use your player's EQ.  Otherwise, you'll just be layering two different EQs on top of each other, which is probably not ideal.  Anker should really add a no EQ option to the app, as well as a user customizable EQ, as others mentioned.



There is a Flat setting in the app which shouldn't add any EQ.


----------



## d3myz (Nov 30, 2019)

FYLegend said:


> Decided on the Tronsmart Onyx Neo.
> 
> How legit are the Facebook amazon refund deals? I keep seeing ads claiming to refund full or half of what I pay but it seems really sketchy and some people say it violates Amazon policy.


I review about 6-10 items a week. I always get refunded and it is not against amazons policy unless they ask you to give them a five star review. and even at that amazon is Making money off of it so they don’t really enforce it.


----------



## Quicky32

Pete7874 said:


> Did you buy them from Amazon.  If so, you  can return them if it' within 30 days.  You may have to pay for return shipping.



No I bought them direct from Anker.


----------



## Spamateur

CocaCola15 said:


> I see we are both PSB speaker fans, though mine are ancient (but still sound great).



Love PSB! Do you have a set of the Stratuses? I wish they were more appreciated of a hifi brand in general considering the solid engineering and how insanely competitive they are for the price. I'm coming up on 2 years with the T3s and I can't ever see myself moving off of them unless I win the lottery and can throw down on some Magicos.


----------



## Spamateur

I just saw this reddit post from 18 days ago saying that Anker is coming out with an updated hardware version of the L2P that addresses hiss? Does anyone else know about this?

https://www.reddit.com/r/anker/comments/dvke3y/upgraded_liberty_2_pro_white_noise_hiss_update/


----------



## CocaCola15

Pete7874 said:


> For this to be a viable option, there would need to be a flat/no EQ setting in the app, so that you can use it as a clean starting point to use your player's EQ.  Otherwise, you'll just be layering two different EQs on top of each other, which is probably not ideal.  Anker should really add a no EQ option to the app, as well as a user customizable EQ, as others mentioned.


I don’t even turn on the app. I just connect the L2P via BT and adjust their flat sound with the player I have, Kaisertone Audio. And as noted, there is a flat setting in the Soundcore app.

Plus, layering the EQ is not problematic if it sounds right.


----------



## ngd3 (Dec 1, 2019)

Spamateur said:


> The "Acoustic" EQ setting immediately started the drivers clicking like crazy as if they were bottoming out or hitting the driver housing. Something is terribly wrong here.



For L2P owners on here -  I've mentioned the same thing in this thread and I think I figured out a workaround. Switching from any other setting to Acoustic in the app causes them to distort, even at lower volumes. To fix, leave it on Acoustic, power both sides off then back on. For whatever reason powering them on with the EQ set fixes the issue. Very strange, I'll report to Anker to fix in a future FW update

Piano eq is my fav at the gym, Acoustic for home/best sound quality imo


----------



## clerkpalmer

Spamateur said:


> I just saw this reddit post from 18 days ago saying that Anker is coming out with an updated hardware version of the L2P that addresses hiss? Does anyone else know about this?
> 
> https://www.reddit.com/r/anker/comments/dvke3y/upgraded_liberty_2_pro_white_noise_hiss_update/


Yes, there is a third revision coming. I am in line for an exchange. Strike that - 3rd version; 2nd revision.


----------



## Spamateur

clerkpalmer said:


> Yes, there is a third revision coming. I am in line for an exchange. Strike that - 3rd version; 2nd revision.



Appreciate it. I just sent them a message on Amazon to see if I can't do the same. Unless the Noble Falcons do something to blow these out of the water I think a less hissy L2P is a keeper.


----------



## Invalid

chinmie said:


> The last time i tried a ZNT TWS, it sounded like listening to AM radios.. i'm afraid to try another one of their's after that



Okay steering clear then. Haha.


----------



## _mouse_ (Dec 1, 2019)

It's really difficult to have clear view on 1096 pages...please someone may help the people like me to decide which decent tws around 100€?
Forgot to thanks in advance!


----------



## Quicky32

I can't hear a hiss in my LP2 but I'm still struggling with fit.  I may take advantage of the 30 day return...


----------



## al2813 (Dec 1, 2019)

I am about to pull the trigger on Soundcore LP2. Was about to get an APP yesterday but you cannot find it anywhere here and than I saw the LP2 feedbacks here and switched....

one thing that deters me is the deep discount (Amazon.fr has it with a 40 euro coupon). I am worried Anker is about to release a follow up with ANC. Anyone has any info? While with IEMs I have no issue owning multiple ones, TWS is something else. I just want one that plays music in a good enough way and most importantly has great call quality in noisy environments.


----------



## webvan

Hey, good catch on the 40€ coupon on Amazon.fr, they're only about a three weeks late on Amazon.com ! I wonder if they didn't do that to make up for the recall of the first version that had hiss. Incredibly enough they're apparently getting a THIRD version ready as the hiss is still not gone on some units. I'm a bit surprised they're still getting such a good press here with these repeated snafus...as well as fit problems...and lack of a custom EQ...they really have to sound GREAT


----------



## al2813

webvan said:


> Hey, good catch on the 40€ coupon on Amazon.fr, they're only about a three weeks late on Amazon.com ! I wonder if they didn't do that to make up for the recall of the first version that had hiss. Incredibly enough they're apparently getting a THIRD version ready as the hiss is still not gone on some units. I'm a bit surprised they're still getting such a good press here with these repeated snafus...as well as fit problems...and lack of a custom EQ...they really have to sound GREAT



mmmm.... any other recommendations than? good call quality as I said is primary as I will using them mainly for calling and just a bit for music.


----------



## duo8

It seems that except the Galaxy Buds none of these TWS stuff works on my linux laptop.
So I'll still have to keep a wired pair around.


----------



## webvan

falang said:


> How are the echo buds ANR for travel?  Have you tried them on a plane or mass transit?  I'd give them a shot but they are not available to deliver to Hong Kong yet.


I haven't flown with them yet but I've run some tests blasting some "cabin noise" from YT and they do very well. I've used them to commute and they're excellent. As pointed out earlier in this thread by @rhsauer the combination of passive isolation and ANR does wonders. I agree and rtings' actual measurements in their recent review confirms that the combo works great, best in class probably. The ANR is less "impressive" (i.e. makes less of a difference) than on the APPs, XM3s or LTA+, but the end result is better in my experience. And as I've mentioned before with the wings you're not going to lose the seal.


----------



## Uncle00Jesse

I’m in line for the 3rd revision too. My pair from last week definitely has some terrible distracting hiss. They sound really good, very alive, solid separation and pretty insane bass. Only thing I don’t like is that they are very very bright. My personalized eq in the app sounds best to me. All the presets sound very icy in the highs. I don’t get how people are listening on the Piano preset, it’s the worst offender for me. Shows that we all hear differently


----------



## dweaver

al2813 said:


> mmmm.... any other recommendations than? good call quality as I said is primary as I will using them mainly for calling and just a bit for music.


 the L2P have very good call quality. I have used them in extremely noisy food courts, on busy city center streets and in wind and it has handled all 3 very well with good feedback from every caller and always sounded excellent on my end as well.


----------



## Spamateur

Got all three in the house. I am trying out the Noble Falcons right now.


----------



## _mouse_

Which one for call and comfort? Anker L2P,  jabra elite sport, jbl reflect flow


----------



## clerkpalmer

Spamateur said:


> Got all three in the house. I am trying out the Noble Falcons right now.


I have the noble as well. Not sure how I feel about them. Sound seems good. Can’t stand the blinking lights. Do not like the long stem.  It seems overly elongated even for audiophile type iems. Like the opposite of the anker and it’s shallow fit.


----------



## Spamateur (Dec 1, 2019)

Here's my review of the the Noble Falcon:

The build quality is decent, on-par with the Nuarl NT-01AX. In fact, the case is clearly made from a very similar design and material as the Nuarl case, so I would be surprised if they didn't use the same OEM (heck, even the lights on the earpieces themselves are the same amber color as the Nuarl when charging). However, the nice thing is the Noble's case actually has magnets to hold the IEMs in place and seems better thought-out in terms of basic ergonomics.The case itself is probably the tiniest I've seen from a TW IEM.

As for the earpieces themselves, they are small housings with really long nozzles for a deep insertion. They don't seem to passively isolate as well as you'd think considering how deep these go into your ears, but the actual housing is quite small so maybe that's why. As soon as music turns on I can't hear myself typing on my mechanical keyboard, however, which shows the benefit of the deep insertion being so close to your eardrums. Comfort-wise I'm finding them mostly good. Within the first 30 minutes my left ear developed a slight ache in my ear canal similar to what you'd get with custom IEMs, but I repositioned them once and 90 min later they're still fine. They seal really well, however, and it hasn't been a struggle to find the right position, which was a constant pain on the Nuarl and Sony XM3. Btw, the earpiece LEDs are pretty cool but having them flash periodically even when music is playing is a questionable design decision that reminiscent of ugly bluetooth headsets of old. I definitely won't be able to wear these while falling asleep at night without the flashing annoying my wife.

There is a barely perceptible level of hiss present as we've seen happen with all the Qualcomm-based units so far, but it's probably the quietest noise floor I've heard from a TW IEM so far.

In terms of sound, these are a mixed bag, unfortunately, and it is solely dependent on what type of music you listen to:

The Falcon have a mostly neutral sound signature from the bass through the mids with a midbass hump to add some warmth and rhythm. They remind me of the Mavin Air-X quite a bit in that regard. Those parts of the frequency response are clear and smooth with bass evenly transitioning into the mids. While the bass isn't as well-defined as the L2P and is much less in quantity, it sounds pretty good with decent definition and thump. The mids have a really pleasing tonality that emphasizes clarity, which was similarly the hallmark of the Noble K10U I briefly owned several years ago. Tonally these areas of the frequency response are slightly on the lean side, but have proper weight, and I prefer slightly lean to overly thick any day. If you listen to music without a lot of energy in the upper registers such as classical, jazz and acoustic singer-songwriter genres, you'll be satisfied with how close the Falcon gets you to the performance.

When you keep going up the frequency range is where things start to go off the rails. There's some sibilance, shoutiness and hash in the upper mids and treble, and while it's somewhat track-dependent it's pervasive enough that I've started thinking of the Falcon as a bright-sounding IEM. Listening to some of my favorite metal bands (Baroness, Deafheaven) can turn into an exercise in wincing with the cymbals and hi-hats often (but not always) coming across as bright and splashy to a fault. I really wouldn't recommend these for anyone that doesn't have very specific listening tastes that tend towards reserved and demure as opposed to face-meltingly heavy metal. I don't have this problem with the Mavin Air-X or Soundcore Liberty 2 Pro, both of which do a good job conveying treble definition and extension without ever seeming bright.

Incidentally, the volume also ramped up to 100% on me randomly in the middle of a song. Hopefully that's a one-off glitch...

The basic problem that I keep coming back to is the Noble is mostly good if you like a more neutral sound signature, but it doesn't do anything that isn't matched or exceeded by the Mavin Air-X which is a similar signature but with much better execution. The Noble seems to layer and image a bit better than the Mavin and has a noticeably nicer build quality, but outside of that I'd reach for the Air-X every single time I wanted to bliss out and enjoy some music.

On top of that, the Soundcore Liberty 2 Pro exists. While it's a very different sound signature (bass for dayzzzz), the ownership experience, comfortable fit (for me, at least), build quality and general sound quality is superior to the Noble. *IF *they can fix the hissing in the Soundcore I think it's probably the best all-around TW IEM on the market for a more consumer-focused sound.

TL;DR: The Noble Falcon is a decent first effort, but has a sound signature that can be bright, and doesn't really do anything better than other options on the market right now.

EDIT: I just went back and found a review I wrote a few years ago of the Empire Ears Zeus-R where I compared it to the Noble K10U. Here's what I said about the Noble K10U:

_"While it was a fantastic IEM in clarity, smoothness and especially soundstage, it really fell short when it came to treble. To my ears the K10UA was fatiguing after short periods of time, and I found myself wincing on recordings mastered to be a bit "hot." The K10UA really seemed to accentuate the rougher qualities of those tracks to the point of discomfort, and treble definition suffered as cymbals were particularly splashy and grating."_

Sounds familiar..


----------



## Quicky32

Uncle00Jesse said:


> I’m in line for the 3rd revision too. My pair from last week definitely has some terrible distracting hiss. They sound really good, very alive, solid separation and pretty insane bass. Only thing I don’t like is that they are very very bright. My personalized eq in the app sounds best to me. All the presets sound very icy in the highs. I don’t get how people are listening on the Piano preset, it’s the worst offender for me. Shows that we all hear differently



I don’t notice any hiss but the fit and harsh highs are a deal breaker so I’m sending them back. I tried a few EQ on my IPod and EQ off and some songs are ear piercing even at lower volume.


----------



## jlo mein (Dec 1, 2019)

Anyone know how to find out which version/revision of the L2P you have?

I just received my L2P directly from the Soundcore/Anker store for the $86 deal. The bottom of the box says A3909011. I've updated to firmware 1.15.

There's very noticeable and distracting background hiss. Could the hiss be related to the massive volume gain Anker designed in these?  The volume goes much louder than I'd ever want, even 30% volume is too loud.

 I'm also not getting much isolation with any of the included tips, and may not be getting a proper seal.  Sound is decent on Piano preset. Signature, Flat, and Personalized presets all sound the same and heavily v-shaped. For Personalized setup I heard the beeping test noise the entire time.  I'm surprised as I thought I'd have hearing damage since I'm mid-30s in age and frequently go target shooting.

This is my second attempt to get better TWS than the Bomaker Sifi, and the Bomaker is still my overall winner, even though it's a cheapie at $35.  They sound fantastic after EQing down the bass and a slight treble bump. Isolation is much better since they insert so deeply.  Nearly zero hiss compared to the L2P.  I shower with them since they're IPX7. The case is one the smallest I've seen and feels more luxurious than $35 should be.  Switching from both buds to left bud only while listening to music is seamless (the L2P and Shanling MTW100 both require me to enter Bluetooth settings to do this same task).

My other TWS upgrade attempt was the Shanling MTW100BA. These aren't a good buy for $70-90.  None of the included tips sealed properly.  I used the medium Bomaker tips with the MTW100 and got a good seal, but it doesn't charge in the case. Almost any non-included tip won't allow the earbuds to charge in the case.  Sound is great if seal is good, bass is adequate for anyone liking a flat sound. Has more hiss than the Bomaker, but much less than the L2P. Isolation is poor and the buds can't be inserted deeply. The audio pass through mode to hear your surroundings is a gimmick: I still needed to remove one earbud to have any conversation, and its terrible while walking due to wind noise. The touch controls require an accurate tap on a specific area and I'd often do the wrong function as a result.  The worst part is the case: it feels cheap and the earbuds require finicky jostling to get them to charge since often they don't charge after being dropped in.

Overall I'm still amazed at how Bomaker gets all the little things right in terms of features, ease of use, build quality and yet they're $35. The only reasons I can imagine why they aren't surging in popularity are the styling and the out-of-box bass heavy and slightly muffled sound.  Regardless, they respond very well to EQing without distortion.


----------



## wksoh (Dec 1, 2019)

jlo mein said:


> Anyone know how to find out which version/revision of the L2P you have?
> 
> I just received my L2P directly from the Soundcore/Anker store for the $86 deal. The bottom of the box says A3909011. I've updated to firmware 1.15.
> 
> ...


Have you tried mpow M5 to compare with? Some think its slightly muffled too. But I like them... I'm also looking at bomaker.


----------



## Timastyle

For those with the Sifi...I currently have the large SpinFit 360 in but I feel as though I need a larger size to get a better deal and to keep them from getting loose. I get a decent deal now but small movement shifts them so they aren't sealed well. 

Any suggestions for tips that'll fit the case?


----------



## wksoh

voicemaster said:


> Those ssk are freaking hard to find tho.


Got mine from Ali express...


----------



## wksoh (Dec 1, 2019)

Testing mpow m5 vs SSK bt03 with these tracks: 

The mpow m5 voice is more distant and ssk bt03 voice sound directly in front.
Not sure which sounds right.

The mpow m5 soundstage sounds wider in these tracks I think. 

Folks can test your tws with these tracks too..


----------



## wksoh (Dec 1, 2019)

Drums and bass.. 


Mpow m5 beginning to show its tonal accuracy


----------



## magi44ken

bronco1015 said:


> Of course. One thing i will add though, if you don't currently have a snapdragon 845 or newer, then as long as each earbud has the specs to work indipendently, you could still pair them each to your phone and have similar results. My friend's phone has the 835, and i first paired the main earbud for the set she was using, then both worked together. Then i put the earbud which was acting as the master in the case, which forced the other in to pairing mode. I paired it and it worked just fine of course, then i took out the other earbud and they synced almost immediately. I then put both back in the case, pulled 1 out it paired, put it back. Pulled out the other and it did the same. This is wordy, but point is that even with older sources, as long as each bud has the capability to be used in mono, you're still able to get the same benefit.



Thanks for the detail answer. That makes lot of sense now. I'm planning to upgrade my phone next year for SD865. So my priority for future tws earbud needs good call quality using 4 mics and low latency and battery life using TWS+.


----------



## Darkestred (Dec 2, 2019)

Spamateur said:


> There is a barely perceptible level of hiss present as we've seen happen with all the Qualcomm-based units so far, but it's probably the quietest noise floor I've heard from a TW IEM so far.
> 
> In terms of sound, these are a mixed bag, unfortunately, and it is solely dependent on what type of music you listen to:
> 
> ...



I thought vocals were pushed back, before eq.  However with a different perspective - i never thought these were bright or showed any signs of sibilance.  I also listen to metal and all its cores and some death.  No issues.  Took some time getting used to the signature but its quite the opposite of what i am used to and while these iems lack details in the mids and sound choked at times - they are a solid foreray into TWS.


----------



## Spamateur

Darkestred said:


> I thought vocals were pushed back, before eq.  However with a different perspective - i never thought these were bright or showed any signs of sibilance.  I also listen to metal and all its cores and some death.  No issues.  Took some time getting used to the signature but its quite the opposite of what i am used to and while these iems lack details in the mids and sound chocked at times - they are a solid foreray into TWS.



Everybody hears differently and prefers a different type of sound, so don't let my impressions keep you from loving your Falcon. What EQ have you applied?


----------



## Quicky32

jlo mein said:


> Anyone know how to find out which version/revision of the L2P you have?
> 
> I just received my L2P directly from the Soundcore/Anker store for the $86 deal. The bottom of the box says A3909011. I've updated to firmware 1.15.
> 
> ...



I will have to check but I ordered mine direct at the same deal about a week ago and I don’t notice any hiss.  I didn’t hear it before the firmware update either...


----------



## Spamateur

clerkpalmer said:


> I have the noble as well. Not sure how I feel about them. Sound seems good. Can’t stand the blinking lights. Do not like the long stem.  It seems overly elongated even for audiophile type iems. Like the opposite of the anker and it’s shallow fit.



Could you elaborate on your impressions of the sound? They seemed really bright to me on a lot of tracks, but not all. Other times they sounded fine.

I've already initiated a return as the volume cranking up to max on me was an immediate dealbreaker.


----------



## d3myz

I got the Sabbat X12 Ultra today and they are going back. Maybe i got a bad pair that just rolls off all the highs and makes the kick and snare sound empty. Good bass but everything sounds so thin. I used several tips, had a good seal and man, was I disappointed. These however, have been fantastic. Nice warm yet balanced sound. Qualcomm chipset, great for phone calls etc. def worth $40.


----------



## wksoh

d3myz said:


> I got the Sabbat X12 Ultra today and they are going back. Maybe i got a bad pair that just rolls off all the highs and makes the kick and snare sound empty. Good bass but everything sounds so thin. I used several tips, had a good seal and man, was I disappointed. These however, have been fantastic. Nice warm yet balanced sound. Qualcomm chipset, great for phone calls etc. def worth $40.



The link to your $40 earphone returned an error for me...


----------



## webvan

d3myz said:


> I got the Sabbat X12 Ultra today and they are going back. Maybe i got a bad pair that just rolls off all the highs and makes the kick and snare sound empty. Good bass but everything sounds so thin. I used several tips, had a good seal and man, was I disappointed. These however, have been fantastic. Nice warm yet balanced sound. Qualcomm chipset, great for phone calls etc. def worth $40.


Tips and seal for the X12? That doesn't sound right, did you mean the E12 maybe?


----------



## FYLegend (Dec 2, 2019)

d3myz said:


> I review about 6-10 items a week. I always get refunded and it is not against amazons policy unless they ask you to give them a five star review. and even at that amazon is Making money off of it so they don’t really enforce it.


Well I basically got an ad from a product I just viewed (an MPOW TWS) claiming cashback. The FB page claimed to be officially Seneo (a sub-brand of MPOW) but didn't have anything indicating it was official.


d3myz said:


> I got the Sabbat X12 Ultra today and they are going back. Maybe i got a bad pair that just rolls off all the highs and makes the kick and snare sound empty. Good bass but everything sounds so thin. I used several tips, had a good seal and man, was I disappointed. These however, have been fantastic. Nice warm yet balanced sound. Qualcomm chipset, great for phone calls etc. def worth $40.


Since you mentioned tips, do you mean E12 or X12?
I was able to try my friend's copper E12 Ultra today and it didn't have the same sound defects I had experienced on my blue camo. If anything it was slightly the opposite - the left bud being more bassy and the right one being slightly brighter, but overall it was far more balanced than mine. With foam padding in the nozzle I was able to get mine to sound more balanced albeit somewhat subdued overall - I suspect the left driver is how it was supposed to sound, with the mids being more peaked. The highs don't seem rolled off much to me, but the detail retrieval could be better (I'd say only average at best). In some ways it reminds me of the ATH-M50 back in the day being the jack of all trades and master of none.

Also, is it just me or are more sellers steering away from epacket? For example, how long did it take for Tronsmart devices to arrive in the US or Canada and did you get tracking in the destination country?


----------



## Darkestred (Dec 2, 2019)

Spamateur said:


> Everybody hears differently and prefers a different type of sound, so don't let my impressions keep you from loving your Falcon. What EQ have you applied?



No doubt.  I wanted to share a differing opinion since we seem to have similar tastes in music.  It's always nice to have two perspectives (or more).

It could be all placebo but i have a slight W on my eq.  To me this brought the vocals and the mid range a bit more forward with slightly more details.  Bass barely did anything and treble i dont know.  but i love a U/V for my bass and treble.


----------



## sly_in_the_sky (Dec 2, 2019)

Hi,

Just wanted to share my experience with Falcon. I had B&O E8, the Senn MTW, the Earing M-2,the Master&Dynamic mw07 and the Falcon are from memory, to my ears, in this same league if not better but way less expensive than the Senn and the M&D. They sound really crisp, balanced, organic and detailled, they are well built, they have a good battery autonomy and they fit and isolate well... For me, the new champion considering all these aspects.


----------



## Spamateur

Hmmm... I seem to be the only one who thinks the Falcon is "just ok" and finds it a tad bright on some music. I'd chalk it up to a bum unit or fit issues, but it's very much in line with the treble I remember from the Noble K10U aluminum, and The Wizard's tuning is very evident in both. In any case with any headphone, YMMV.


----------



## DigDub

Spamateur said:


> Hmmm... I seem to be the only one who thinks the Falcon is "just ok" and finds it a tad bright on some music. I'd chalk it up to a bum unit or fit issues, but it's very much in line with the treble I remember from the Noble K10U aluminum, and The Wizard's tuning is very evident in both. In any case with any headphone, YMMV.


I find the Falcon to be too bright in the mid-high as well.


----------



## DigDub

People with the APP, try to remove the mesh on the rubber sleeves using a needle and tell me if you like the sound better. The bass seems to be not trapped inside the buds anymore and results in lesser mid bass and a overall slightly clearer sound signature.


----------



## Grayson73

For those with the SSK, question.  When you put the earbuds in the case, do they still continue to play music, thus continuing to drain the battery?


----------



## kl884347

For anyone who missed the Fiil T1X $10 off on Amazon it is back on sale for $40.


----------



## cwill

Grayson73 said:


> For those with the SSK, question.  When you put the earbuds in the case, do they still continue to play music, thus continuing to drain the battery?


No.


----------



## srinivasvignesh

Grayson73 said:


> For those with the SSK, question.  When you put the earbuds in the case, do they still continue to play music, thus continuing to drain the battery?


Yes, I have experienced it frequently.


----------



## Grayson73

srinivasvignesh said:


> Yes, I have experienced it frequently.



What do you do to turn it off?  You have to turn off manually?  Is this common with TWS or a flaw with SSK?


----------



## srinivasvignesh

Grayson73 said:


> What do you do to turn it off?  You have to turn off manually?  Is this common with TWS or a flaw with SSK?



I keep trying a couple of times (sometimes 3 or 4 times), for it to stop. This is not common with TWS at all. Even with SSK, it appears to be not normal and defective.


----------



## Quicky32

I was able to get a better fit on my LP2 and they do sound better using the app on my IPhone.  I still think I’ll look for a better fitting set of TWS or go with something better for gym use.


----------



## gibletzor

I've been experimenting with different tips with the Tranya Rimor and I've found the Spinfit CP-100Z to be a great fit for them.  CP-360s don't insert far enough for me the way these are shaped.  SQ is still great, they fit in the case to charge, I just wished they came in black instead of clear with a red core!

Still can't justify them over the B530s for the extra money though.


----------



## Spamateur

Quicky32 said:


> I was able to get a better fit on my LP2 and they do sound better using the app on my IPhone.  I still think I’ll look for a better fitting set of TWS or go with something better for gym use.



Glad to hear you're having more success with the fit. When you say you're using the app, are you using the "HearID" feature? I found this worked quite well in improving the sound but I'm still wishing for a customizable EQ feature.


----------



## d3myz

wksoh said:


> The link to your $40 earphone returned an error for me...


Sorry, Here you go.


----------



## AtariPrime

Ok...brainstorming time.

My wife wants some wireless earbuds.  I have my own criteria in what I'm looking for and know what to get me, but she is a bit different.

She doesn't like 'in-ear' earbuds like most of what is on the market.  She prefers the styles that sit at the entrance to your ear.

I had her try the original version of the AirPod as a as a result, and she hated it.  It was uncomfortable for her.

So then I had her try the Bose SoundSport Free.  She loved how they sounded, but they are gigantic and in her words are 'ugly as Fu&k'.  A fair complaint.

So, I then had her try the Galaxy Buds and the Jabra Elite 65t.  I know they are both in-ear but they are also small which was important to her.  They were both mildly uncomfortable but her main complaint was they sounded far inferior to the Bose.

So, finally i had her try the Plantronics Backbeat Pro 5100.  Comfort was fine, size was fine, but again the didn't like the sound quality.

Now, I am at the point thinking maybe the Bose 500 earbuds are the way to go for her, but as far as I know there isn't a release date other than 'early 2020'.  Do we have anything more definitive?

Have I missed any good options here?  Are they are any small 'on-ear' earbuds that just sit at the entrance to the ear canal and have decent sound?


----------



## Iron-Buddha (Dec 2, 2019)

Had my APP’s for a few days.  Very impressive product, peak Apple.  ANC and transparency are both very functional.  Can actually have a conversation through transparency mode.  Sound quality is very good.   The convenience of a small case that fits in the coin pocket on my jeans means I have them on me all the time...and I’m not too lazy to put them in the case when I do take them out.   The fact that the case has wireless charging while being so small makes you wonder why all my other cases are so bulky.

They are also surprisingly comfortable.   My wife can’t stand IEM’s and she didn’t mind them at all.   The pressure equalization also works quite well.

I haven’t tried the MTW or the WF1000XM3’s, so can’t do a direct comparison, but the APP is very compelling at it’s price point.  You can’t often say that about Apple products.


----------



## Quicky32

Spamateur said:


> Glad to hear you're having more success with the fit. When you say you're using the app, are you using the "HearID" feature? I found this worked quite well in improving the sound but I'm still wishing for a customizable EQ feature.



Yes and I tried flat, piano, and the recommended one by Soundcore and prefer Piano I think.  The brightness went away using the app and my phone instead of my Ipod but they don't get as loud.


----------



## hifi80sman

d3myz said:


> Sorry, Here you go.


USB C and a metal case...that's reason enough!  

They probably should have used a better stock photo for hands free calls/safer driving.


----------



## typhoon838

A little while back I was looking for a similar replacement to my anbes 359 since the rubber pads were falling off (I just ended up super gluing them) and everyone said that the ssk were the same. Same housing, same UFO, so I figured I'd try them out. Well I don't know if it's just that the anbes are "burned in" but they definitely sound fuller than the ssk. Louder too. The sub bass is more prominent in the anbes while the ssk seem quieter. They don't play at the same volume so it was difficult to compare side by side. Anyone else have a similar experience?


----------



## hifi80sman (Dec 2, 2019)

Iron-Buddha said:


> Had my APP’s for a few days.  Very impressive product, peak Apple.  ANC and transparency are both very functional.  Can actually have a conversation through transparency mode.  Sound quality is very good.   The convenience of a small case that fits in the coin pocket on my jeans means I have them on me all the time...and I’m not too lazy to put them in the case when I do take them out.   The fact that the case has wireless charging while being so small makes you wonder why all my other cases are so bulky.
> 
> They are also surprisingly comfortable.   My wife can’t stand IEM’s and she didn’t mind them at all.   The pressure equalization also works quite well.
> 
> I haven’t tried the MTW or the WF1000XM3’s, so can’t do a direct comparison, but the APP is very compelling at it’s price point.  You can’t often say that about Apple products.


If you're an Apple user, they are hands down the best "lifestyle" TWS out there.  The case scratches VERY easily, so I recommend getting a case for the case.  I bought this one and it fits like a glove.

I also have the MTW and the XM3.  Calls on the APP are far superior, so using them during the business day is fabulous.  I generally prefer the sound of the XM3 over the APP, but I've been listening to the APP more recently and appreciate what they do as well.  I can appreciate different sound signatures, so long as they are not overly bright.


----------



## d3myz

hifi80sman said:


> USB C and a metal case...that's reason enough!
> 
> They probably should have used a better stock photo for hands free calls/safer driving.


HAHA! Yea, I know you love metal cases and warm sound signatures. I was really surprised by these. I really love the shape too. Only downside is you can't turn them off without returning them to the case or disconnecting them from your BT. BTW. my WF-1000xm3's should be here today, got held up in USPS and the wife is making me wait until christmas to open the WH-1000xm3's doh! but I got to look at them, they look brand new, just open box from amazon for $200. Color me excited.


----------



## clerkpalmer

Well, going to give APP another try.   First pair was returned when I had a Samsung phone.  Thinking after switching to an iphone pros outweigh the cons.  Hoping these will tide me over until the 1more and/or Bose release next year.  Not much out there that is compelling at this moment.  M&D was kind enough to allow me to return my MW07 Go after the 14 day period due to a lack of AAC support so kudos to them.


----------



## clerkpalmer

hifi80sman said:


> If you're an Apple user, they are hands down the best "lifestyle" TWS out there.  The case scratches VERY easily, so I recommend getting a case for the case.  I bought this one and it fits like a glove.
> 
> I also have the MTW and the XM3.  Calls on the APP are far superior, so using them during the business day is fabulous.  I generally prefer the sound of the XM3 over the APP, but I've been listening to the APP more recently and appreciate what they do as well.  I can appreciate different sound signatures, so long as they are not overly bright.



I bought the Sony's at launch.  The sound was good but the fit and ergonomics were not.  And the lack of any IP rating is annoying.  I considered going Sony again but I think the APP is probably just a bit more compelling right now.  Sweat proofing, lighter and better form factor.  I agree with you about the SQ - sony is probably a bit better but it's not leaps and bounds better.


----------



## d3myz (Dec 2, 2019)

The Fiil T1x is $40 again today. 

Edit: that's the T1 not the T1x, i'm not sure what the difference is sonically, but the T1 appears to have a cover on the back of the charging case, probably not USB-C. However, the T1x is still $40 with a coupon.


----------



## voicemaster

d3myz said:


> The Fiil T1x is $40 again today.
> 
> Edit: that's the T1 not the T1x, i'm not sure what the difference is sonically, but the T1 appears to have a cover on the back of the charging case, probably not USB-C. However, the T1x is still $40 with a coupon.



Look very similar to T1X. The only thing missing is the quick charge (10 min for 2 hours listening time).


----------



## varta

Looks like the price of Liberty 2 Pro dropped to $109.99 on soundcore.com. Pitty that the promo codes (JIMMYL2P/JERRYL2P) don't seem to work anymore... Does anyone know if there are any other applicable promo codes that still work?


----------



## dweaver

AtariPrime said:


> Ok...brainstorming time.
> 
> My wife wants some wireless earbuds.  I have my own criteria in what I'm looking for and know what to get me, but she is a bit different.
> 
> ...



The new Airpod Pro will definitely fit her comfort requirement and sound good IMO. They are somewhat like the Bose in how they fit inside the ear canal. No sense of ear pressure.

They work best with Apple obviously, but they do work with Android products especially if it supports AAC. 

Other than that I cant think of any product that uses a similar design to the Bose.


----------



## d3myz

typhoon838 said:


> A little while back I was looking for a similar replacement to my anbes 359 since the rubber pads were falling off (I just ended up super gluing them) and everyone said that the ssk were the same. Same housing, same UFO, so I figured I'd try them out. Well I don't know if it's just that the anbes are "burned in" but they definitely sound fuller than the ssk. Louder too. The sub bass is more prominent in the anbes while the ssk seem quieter. They don't play at the same volume so it was difficult to compare side by side. Anyone else have a similar experience?



I have had the same experience. The SSK's sound great, but the soundstage on the anbes is a little wider and there's a little more sub-bass. Vocals and a little less recesses and the mids are a little thicker (snare drums  I've used my SSK's quite a bit so i'm not sure they'll ever break in to sound like the anbes, but I've used the anbes' more certainly. I also have another pair of 359's that have had very little use. I dropped them and the shell came off, so I still need to glue it back together. I also super glued the pads back on my 359's, they are just to good not to use.


----------



## Grayson73

typhoon838 said:


> A little while back I was looking for a similar replacement to my anbes 359 since the rubber pads were falling off (I just ended up super gluing them) and everyone said that the ssk were the same. Same housing, same UFO, so I figured I'd try them out. Well I don't know if it's just that the anbes are "burned in" but they definitely sound fuller than the ssk. Louder too. The sub bass is more prominent in the anbes while the ssk seem quieter. They don't play at the same volume so it was difficult to compare side by side. Anyone else have a similar experience?



My experience is the opposite.  The SSK is fuller, is more energetic, and has more bass than the Anbes.


----------



## d3myz

voicemaster said:


> Look very similar to T1X. The only thing missing is the quick charge (10 min for 2 hours listening time).


I found this. I had no idea there was an app. I'll test it out.


----------



## Grayson73

@typhoon838 @d3myz Do you guys have the same issue with the SSK not turning off when putting them into the case?


----------



## hifi80sman

d3myz said:


> HAHA! Yea, I know you love metal cases and warm sound signatures. I was really surprised by these. I really love the shape too. Only downside is you can't turn them off without returning them to the case or disconnecting them from your BT. BTW. my WF-1000xm3's should be here today, got held up in USPS and the wife is making me wait until christmas to open the WH-1000xm3's doh! but I got to look at them, they look brand new, just open box from amazon for $200. Color me excited.


I think you'll like them.  To me, they hit like a pair of on-ears and I really enjoy them.  Finding a good fit was the most challenging thing, but I was able to with some L Sony (shorter) tips.


----------



## d3myz

Grayson73 said:


> @typhoon838 @d3myz Do you guys have the same issue with the SSK not turning off when putting them into the case?


Nope, mine start charging. I think when they are fully charged the re-connect like many other tws'


----------



## d3myz

hifi80sman said:


> I think you'll like them.  To me, they hit like a pair of on-ears and I really enjoy them.  Finding a good fit was the most challenging thing, but I was able to with some L Sony (shorter) tips.


I like your picture of Stallone.


----------



## wksoh

d3myz said:


> Sorry, Here you go.


THanks,.. what's your reviewer na


Grayson73 said:


> For those with the SSK, question.  When you put the earbuds in the case, do they still continue to play music, thus continuing to drain the battery?



They disconnect and stop playing music. I once had it drain battery when I unknowingly put the left ear bud in the right pocket of the charging unit.


----------



## hifi80sman

d3myz said:


> I like your picture of Stallone.


I'll let Paul know you said that!  He's a nice guy though, so you may still be able to go to the next concert.


----------



## Blueshound24

So I hate the fit with the L2P. I cannot get over the shallow fit depth and have tried all the wings and no wings. Without the wings I can place them a little deeper but the little knob that holds the wing on digs into the inside of my ear, and I thought about just filing that 
down 

Is the mw07 any better or is that similar fit? 

M&D is having a CM deal at 50% off of the original, (not Go or plus), for $124.50 and I was thinking of giving it a try.


----------



## rhsauer

hifi80sman said:


> USB C and a metal case...that's reason enough!
> 
> They probably should have used a better stock photo for hands free calls/safer driving.



Let’s hope he’s in the UK and in the passenger seat.


----------



## hifi80sman

d3myz said:


> I found this. I had no idea there was an app. I'll test it out.


I have the T1 with Micro USB charging.  I like them and they are solid, but I'd pick up the T1X just for the App.


----------



## hifi80sman

Blueshound24 said:


> So I hate the fit with the L2P. I cannot get over the shallow fit depth and have tried all the wings and no wings. Without the wings I can place them a little deeper but the little knob that holds the wing on digs into the inside of my ear, and I thought about just filing that
> down
> 
> Is the mw07 any better or is that similar fit?
> ...


If you have issues with the L2P, I think you'll find yourself in a similar situation with the MW07 (also shallow).


----------



## d3myz

Blueshound24 said:


> So I hate the fit with the L2P. I cannot get over the shallow fit depth and have tried all the wings and no wings. Without the wings I can place them a little deeper but the little knob that holds the wing on digs into the inside of my ear, and I thought about just filing that
> down
> 
> Is the mw07 any better or is that similar fit?
> ...


I'd say the MW07 fits better than the L2p. It's still rather shallow, but not as shallow as the L2p at all.  Thanks for the heads up, I just picked up another MW077 for $124.50 in Steel Blue, What a deal!


----------



## Blueshound24

hifi80sman said:


> If you have issues with the L2P, I think you'll find yourself in a similar situation with the MW07 (also shallow).




Bummer...

I suppose it's a combination of the housing and wings holding it back from a deep placement?


----------



## Blueshound24

d3myz said:


> I'd say the MW07 fits better than the L2p. It's still rather shallow, but not as shallow as the L2p at all.  Thanks for the heads up, I just picked up another MW077 for $124.50 in Steel Blue, What a deal!



Another? 

You're welcome.


----------



## Blueshound24

d3myz said:


> I'd say the MW07 fits better than the L2p. It's still rather shallow, but not as shallow as the L2p at all.  Thanks for the heads up, I just picked up another MW077 for $124.50 in Steel Blue, What a deal!




Could Y'all remind me what the Plus & Go have over the original mw07 besides much longer battery life?


----------



## d3myz (Dec 2, 2019)

Blueshound24 said:


> Could Y'all remind me what the Plus & Go have over the original mw07 besides much longer battery life?



From what I understand the Go has one mic and is rated at higher IPX 6, Plus is 5 with 2 beamforming mics.  I think the Go and the Plus are both smaller than the original, but the plus is a little smaller of the two. The plus charges a little quicker. Neither have AAC support as of now.


----------



## hifi80sman

d3myz said:


> I'd say the MW07 fits better than the L2p. It's still rather shallow, but not as shallow as the L2p at all.  Thanks for the heads up, I just picked up another MW077 for $124.50 in Steel Blue, What a deal!


And I thought I had a problem.  I'm normal after all!

If you have the desire to run a test, I found the Tortoiseshell got better battery life than the Steel Blue or Matte Black.  Interested to see if you notice a difference.


----------



## albau

d3myz said:


> From what I understand the Go has one mic and is rated at higher IPX 6, Plus is 5 with 2 beamforming mics.  I think the Go and the Plus are both smaller than the original, but the plus is a little smaller of the two. The plus charges a little quicker. Neither have AAC support as of now.


Also, and more importantly, MW07+ has ANC and transparency mode. Both Go and Plus have much, much better battery life and call quality.


----------



## albau (Dec 2, 2019)

hifi80sman said:


> If you have issues with the L2P, I think you'll find yourself in a similar situation with the MW07 (also shallow).


I dunno. People's ears are so different that I for the life of me can't understand how anybody can expect solid advise from somebody else on the fit and comfort of something that you stick in your own ears. At least take anything in this regard with a ton of salt. That being said here's my experience with L2P and original MW07. Initially, until I found SpinFits CP-100Z-L, I had trouble getting good and secure fit with MW07. With Spinfits and large wings they sit in the ear great and I yet have to hear TWS that sound better. In fact few wired IEMs below $200 are that good for my usage and music. On the other hand I already have L2P for a week and no combinations of tips (stock and other) and wings can make the suckers fit and isolate well. As a result they don't feel secure and sound shrill and tipsy towards highs. Again, your mileage and stuff...


----------



## Quicky32

I felt like I had a good fit at the gym but my left bud lost seal while walking on the treadmill.  The L2P is boxed to send back to Anker.  I need a better fitting TWS or sports wireless for gym use....any suggestions?


----------



## d3myz

Blueshound24 said:


> Could Y'all remind me what the Plus & Go have over the original mw07 besides much longer battery life?





hifi80sman said:


> And I thought I had a problem.  I'm normal after all!
> 
> If you have the desire to run a test, I found the Tortoiseshell got better battery life than the Steel Blue or Matte Black.  Interested to see if you notice a difference.


Really? that's interesting. I was actually going to return my tortoise shell to amazon and save me around $35, bucks, but i'll def. test them against each other. How many pairs of MW07's do you have?


----------



## webvan (Dec 3, 2019)

So I broke down and got the Anker Liberty 3 Pros, aka the L2Ps, after that 40€ coupon finally appeared in Europe. I was a bit wary given the issues with hiss and fit, and the form factor that reminded me of the nightmare that were the WF-1000xM3s in terms of fit...but I love wings so...
Anyway still very early days but so far so good !
- The tips that were fitted didn't work too well or any of the "red" tips but the "black" L tips (they seem deeper and narrower and are called L+ apparently) give me a good seal and as I hoped the wings (medium) keep them in place pretty well
- As for isolation, it's weak, very weak and I was expecting this based on previous feedback. It's barely better than what I get with an earbud design like the X12...but that could be somewhat interesting for running as some quick walking around the house seems to indicate that the dreaded "thump" is quite moderate.
- I DO have some hiss (I got a FW update to 1.15 so it's the v2 apparently) and you can hear it cut out a few seconds after pausing a song. When the music isn't loud I can hear it during playback, that's not great
- The app is well designed and the hearing test is interesting. I'm not sure I totally get it because other than the lowest frequency in the right I always hear the "beeps".
- In terms of "EQ" settings I prefer the "HearID personnalized" one but "Soundcore Signature" is decent too. The other ones don't work so well, especially "Piano" the one that most people seem to like here. It's very "in your face" and makes for harsh and shrill mids and highs. "Acoustic" might be even worse. As has been posted by others here it's amazing how different we all are !
- So yes the SQ is very nice, great range, depth, width (reminds me of the Anbes 359 where it was almost too wide), crisp ! I did a side-by-side with the Echo Buds using two smartphones playing the same track and while the Echo Buds do a great job, they lack the depth and width of the L2Ps. That's probably what you get with a dual BA+DD vs BA only design.
TBC !


----------



## d3myz

albau said:


> Also, and more importantly, MW07+ has ANC and transparency mode. Both Go and Plus have much, much better battery life and call quality.


Interesting. I feel like the MW07 has the best call quality of any TWS' I currently own. Other than it doesn't have CVC or environmental noise cancellation everyone comments on how incredible it is.


----------



## Mouseman

hifi80sman said:


> I'll let Paul know you said that!  He's a nice guy though, so you may still be able to go to the next concert.


Can you say hi to Gene for me?


----------



## D3soLaT3

My 11.11 purchase finally arrived from HiFiGo. Will be listening to then comparing to the Rimor and Earfun Free.


----------



## d3myz

L2pro's are $110 on amazon us right now.


----------



## hifi80sman

d3myz said:


> Really? that's interesting. I was actually going to return my tortoise shell to amazon and save me around $35, bucks, but i'll def. test them against each other. How many pairs of MW07's do you have?


Currently, just the White Marble.  I had the Matte Black (several pairs) and the Steel Blue (2 pairs), both of which seemed to get the dreaded low battery warning around a little over the 2 hour mark (40% volume).

The Tortoiseshell and White Marble both fair much better and I can get at least another 30 mins before the battery warning.


----------



## cwill

Alright guys...who wants my LP2 for $95 shipped? They're just not for me. I've only used them once with my own tips.


----------



## hifi80sman (Dec 2, 2019)

albau said:


> I dunno. People's ears are so different that I for the life of me can't understand how anybody can expect solid advise from somebody else on the fit and comfort of something that you stick in your own ears. At least take anything in this regard with a ton of salt. That being said here's my experience with L2P and original MW07. Initially, until I found SpinFits CP-100Z-L, I had trouble getting good and secure fit with MW07. With Spinfits and large wings they sit in the ear great and I yet have to hear TWS that sound better. In fact few wired IEMs below $200 are that good for my usage and music. On the other hand I already have L2P for a week and no combinations of tips (stock and other) and wings can make the suckers fit and isolate well. As a result they don't feel secure and sound shrill and tipsy towards highs. Again, your mileage and stuff...


In general, I agree with your sentiment, but for me, I'm simply coming from a position of caution to temper expectations.  For example, I'm not a big fan of deep insertion TWS', so from the feedback here, I'm 90% sure the Noble Falcon are not going to work out for me.  That being said, if I do want to try it out, at least I'm going into it with low expectations, as not to be incredibly disappointed if they don't work out.  Nothing worse than getting excited over the arrival of your next set of TWS, only to be super disappointed.

It's like going to see KISS, only to find out you walked into an Air Supply "concert".  "Ahhh...Fuuuhhh..."


----------



## d3myz

cwill said:


> Alright guys...who wants my LP2 for $95 shipped? They're just not for me. I've only used them once with my own tips.


They are $110 new on Amazon U.S. right now, may want to wait until after today to sell them.


----------



## Caipirina

AtariPrime said:


> Ok...brainstorming time.
> 
> My wife wants some wireless earbuds.  I have my own criteria in what I'm looking for and know what to get me, but she is a bit different.
> 
> ...



she might like the fit of the new AirPods Pro. They should let you try in store, if you live close to an Apple store.


----------



## d3myz (Dec 2, 2019)

Ok. I just downloaded the Fiil app. And wow! Very nice app and the bass setting is perfect. My new favorite TWS’. I’m using the stock tips too and It sounds excellent! You can even adjust the button sensitivity. Wow.

here are some screenshots of the app


----------



## hifi80sman

Caipirina said:


> she might like the fit of the new AirPods Pro. They should let you try in store, if you live close to an Apple store.


Definitely feeling the APP.  Funny thing, according to rtings.com, frequency response consistency varies from person to person, which also seems to play into Apples "Active EQ" based on each person's fit.  Once I get a good seal, they do remind me, somewhat, of the Bose SoundSport Free (again, somewhat).  The wife may like the APP, even if they are not an Apple fan.


----------



## tma6

d3myz said:


> Ok. I just downloaded the Fiil app. And wow! Very nice app and the bass setting is perfect. My new favorite TWS’. I’m using the stock tips too and It sounds excellent! You can even adjust the button sensitivity. Wow.
> 
> here are some screenshots of the app



compared to L2Ps?


----------



## voicemaster

d3myz said:


> Ok. I just downloaded the Fiil app. And wow! Very nice app and the bass setting is perfect. My new favorite TWS’. I’m using the stock tips too and It sounds excellent! You can even adjust the button sensitivity. Wow.
> 
> here are some screenshots of the app



I can't use the app for unknown reason. Is it called Fiil+ global edition from play store?


----------



## Timastyle

How does the T1X compare to the SSK and Bomaker Sifi?


----------



## Quicky32

Watching Youtube reviews of TWS and all kinds if wireless lol. I need to replace my L2P or find some better tips?  I tried the ones they come with and some foam but they aren't memory foam just stiff foam.


----------



## DigDub

DigDub said:


> People with the APP, try to remove the mesh on the rubber sleeves using a needle and tell me if you like the sound better. The bass seems to be not trapped inside the buds anymore and results in lesser mid bass and a overall slightly clearer sound signature.


After some time with the APP with the white mesh removed from the rubber sleeves, I find the sound to be clearer, especially cymbals and hi hats, which used to be dark and subdued, is now more defined and present. The biggest change I observed is the sound stage is now more holographic and airy. With the mesh, the buds sounded pretty congested and music stayed was pretty much confined in each bud. Without the mesh, there was an instance where I thought I had turned on transparency mode but it was in fact music coming from the APP. Sound is able to punch through the single layer wire mesh now instead of being trapped behind 2 layers of mesh (the wire mesh on the buds and the white cloth mesh on the sleeves).

Downside might be poorer dirt and moisture resistance? I'm not sure if that's the purpose of the white mesh.


----------



## Darkestred

albau said:


> I dunno. People's ears are so different that I for the life of me can't understand how anybody can expect solid advise from somebody else on the fit and comfort of something that you stick in your own ears. At least take anything in this regard with a ton of salt. That being said here's my experience with L2P and original MW07. Initially, until I found SpinFits CP-100Z-L, I had trouble getting good and secure fit with MW07. With Spinfits and large wings they sit in the ear great and I yet have to hear TWS that sound better. In fact few wired IEMs below $200 are that good for my usage and music. On the other hand I already have L2P for a week and no combinations of tips (stock and other) and wings can make the suckers fit and isolate well. As a result they don't feel secure and sound shrill and tipsy towards highs. Again, your mileage and stuff...



I think context would definitely help.  One wouldn't get much from someone saying oh the Noble Falcon's were amazing fit for me.  For me personally, i have somewhat funny ears.  Straight nozzles never work for me but angled fair much better.  So the information that is or isn't given is always going to help.


----------



## d3myz

tma6 said:


> compared to L2Ps?


A better comparison would be the bomaker, MW07, Tevi and the Anbes 359. They still have rolled off sub-bass. but with the bass eq on, I turn them up much louder without hurting my ears and the clarity is great! 

The L2p.. well there's something about the refinement of the L2p that just tickles my ears and you can tell there's high quality drivers in it. but the BA/DD has a totally different sound, the L2p is thinner in the mids IMO. I still love it and my fav. setting is currently Sig. Sound, but loud so you can hear the highs and mids come through the bass. The T1x has a more narrow sound stage for sure. but the mids much thicker. I listen to a lot of metal and when things get gnarly the t1x doesn't have the separation anbes or the L2pro have (soundstage). I'm using the L2p medium tips, short throw on the L2p's and the longer throw on the Fiil's. I just tested them vs. my anbes 359's and I think the FIIL's may in fact sound better depending on the song and the tips. Feels like heresy  

With the L2p tips they are tighter than the 359's, the highs are crisper and the bass is low, clean, punchy and controlled. However when I switch to my JVC spiral dots, the 359's sound better, you can really hear that sound stage spread out and I don't think the spiral dots complement the already well tuned highs in the T1x. Post rock/Alternative where there is less chaos, it's the exact opposite, but switching the T1x to the Spiral Dots, sounded excellent. All I know is this is a ridiculously good TWS for $40. Someone with the Tevi and the Bomaker needs to do an A/B test. If the Fiil has the sound stage the 359's did, the would be a clear winner imo, depending on the song. the 359's mids are a bit more bumped can tell if it's the mid/mids or high/mids etcThe T1x has better highs and the fact there's a cool app with a ton of customization's really makes this one of the best out there right now in the price range. On another note, What M&D no app? Another quick impression of the T1x. with the bass EQ on, because of the highish crossover it's almost like it wants to go down, but can't and in certain situations it gets a bit boomy. If you haven't listened to the same songs hundreds of times like I have when I test these damn TWS' than you may not notice it, but it can muddy the low end at certain frequencies. Now, would someone with a real knack for reviewing buy these things already an do a proper review?  Where's @Bartig at when you need him?


----------



## d3myz (Dec 2, 2019)

voicemaster said:


> I can't use the app for unknown reason. Is it called Fiil+ global edition from play store?



Yea. What!? that's weird. it won't sync or what? I'm using it on Iphone.[/QUOTE]


----------



## voicemaster

I see. Probably android version hasn't been released yet.


----------



## clerkpalmer

DigDub said:


> After some time with the APP with the white mesh removed from the rubber sleeves, I find the sound to be clearer, especially cymbals and hi hats, which used to be dark and subdued, is now more defined and present. The biggest change I observed is the sound stage is now more holographic and airy. With the mesh, the buds sounded pretty congested and music stayed was pretty much confined in each bud. Without the mesh, there was an instance where I thought I had turned on transparency mode but it was in fact music coming from the APP. Sound is able to punch through the single layer wire mesh now instead of being trapped behind 2 layers of mesh (the wire mesh on the buds and the white cloth mesh on the sleeves).
> 
> Downside might be poorer dirt and moisture resistance? I'm not sure if that's the purpose of the white mesh.



interesting but seems a bit risky for a 250 product.  I got my second pair today after returning the first. Now that my expectations are set, I am finding myself ok with the sound quality. It’s not bad. It’s crisp and clear with some bass. I think the pb pro sound better.  I can probably find a use case for them even if music itself is not the strength of these. I may grab a set of the Sony’s somewhere and decide which to keep. My first go round ended with a return due to poor fit bit I didn’t try very hard. Just not sure I can love with another huge tws with the l2p in house already which look ridiculous.


----------



## d3myz

Most of you won't care for 90% of my music, but there are some really well produced tracks on this playlist of you care to listen. I tried to pick songs that really test the ability of the earbud. I'd love to hear some feedback and please feel free to share any tracks with me, I added a Meraba song from a member of the group to test over produced treble in vocals, it's seems to be a stupid trend in audio engineering with newer music.

https://open.spotify.com/playlist/3Fm0OCFpU0CluKtoFGN3N9

3- is an excellent test for chaotic but melodic metal.  listen for the china and the low bass. If you can hear the kick drums click and the left guitar in the bridge at the end with everything else going, your buds can separate well and have good highs
4- Great production of an awesome song with a huge wide sound
6- One of the Best recordings I've heard
7 - Clean super well produced electronic
17- Lots of keys, vocals, guitars and a HUGE chorus
20 - incredible low grindy guitar and that snare drum and beautiful clean guitar!
21 - super thin, incredibly over produced highs. If you can get this to sound good you have good gear.
22 - Prog. Metal at it's finest
27- Animals as leaders at their best. Fusion Jazz/Metal


----------



## d3myz

voicemaster said:


> I see. Probably android version hasn't been released yet.


did you click on the T1x? and if so, what happens?


----------



## d3myz

I'm about to unbox my Sony WF-1000XM3's. Wish me Luck.


----------



## DigDub

clerkpalmer said:


> interesting but seems a bit risky for a 250 product.  I got my second pair today after returning the first. Now that my expectations are set, I am finding myself ok with the sound quality. It’s not bad. It’s crisp and clear with some bass. I think the pb pro sound better.  I can probably find a use case for them even if music itself is not the strength of these. I may grab a set of the Sony’s somewhere and decide which to keep. My first go round ended with a return due to poor fit bit I didn’t try very hard. Just not sure I can love with another huge tws with the l2p in house already which look ridiculous.


I guess if the ears are kept clean and dry, it shouldn't be much of an issue. The sleeves are easily replaced so it's a pretty cheap and low risk mod.


----------



## cwill

d3myz said:


> Most of you won't care for 90% of my music, but there are some really well produced tracks on this playlist of you care to listen. I tried to pick songs that really test the ability of the earbud. I'd love to hear some feedback and please feel free to share any tracks with me, I added a Meraba song from a member of the group to test over produced treble in vocals, it's seems to be a stupid trend in audio engineering with newer music.
> 
> https://open.spotify.com/playlist/3Fm0OCFpU0CluKtoFGN3N9
> 
> ...


That Erra album is boss. One of my faves.


----------



## d3myz (Dec 2, 2019)

cwill said:


> That Erra album is boss. One of my faves.


Isn't it! I don't care much for the newer stuff. but that album.. OHHH Man.. I listen to Seven literally every day and never get tired of it.


----------



## clerkpalmer

DigDub said:


> I guess if the ears are kept clean and dry, it shouldn't be much of an issue. The sleeves are easily replaced so it's a pretty cheap and low risk mod.


Not sure I even realized there are removable rubber sleeves on them. Will investigate.


----------



## voicemaster

d3myz said:


> did you click on the T1x? and if so, what happens?


It says "The current version doesn't support Fiil+"


----------



## cwill

d3myz said:


> Isn't it! I don't care much for the newer stuff. but that album.. OHHH Man.. I listen to Seven literally every day and never get tired of it.


Absolutely.


----------



## d3myz

Wow. These Sony's are pretty Amazing.


----------



## tinyman392

clerkpalmer said:


> interesting but seems a bit risky for a 250 product.  I got my second pair today after returning the first. Now that my expectations are set, I am finding myself ok with the sound quality. It’s not bad. It’s crisp and clear with some bass. I think the pb pro sound better.  I can probably find a use case for them even if music itself is not the strength of these. I may grab a set of the Sony’s somewhere and decide which to keep. My first go round ended with a return due to poor fit bit I didn’t try very hard. Just not sure I can love with another huge tws with the l2p in house already which look ridiculous.



250 is a bit of an overshot when he's modifying a 4 dollar part (a pair of tips is 4 dollars to replace).


----------



## d3myz

I think if I keep listening to these sony's my head is going to explode. I honestly wish they had more bass like the L2pro, but my goodness they are really fantastic. They are pretty perfectly balanced and with my Spiral Dots they fit perfectly.


----------



## georgelai57

d3myz said:


> I think if I keep listening to these sony's my head is going to explode. I honestly wish they had more bass like the L2pro, but my goodness they are really fantastic. They are pretty perfectly balanced and with my Spiral Dots they fit perfectly.


Are you able to get the bass you can want via the Sony Connect app? Also which particular Spiral
Dots are you using? Thanks


----------



## jlo mein

Used my L2P on a train today and that solidified my decision to return them. The isolation is nearly nonexistent with even the best fitting tips. Buying comply foam tips might fix it slightly, but can't fix how shallow the earbuds insert due to the size of the plastic housing.

The background hiss is intolerable when in quiet environments. I supposedly have the 2nd hardware revision.  (Received direct from Anker this past week)

It's unfortunate because the sound is fantastic, and would probably be even better if I could get proper sealing tips.  I'm now quite content sticking with my $30 Bomaker Sifi after testing the L2P and Shanling MTW100BA.


----------



## hifi80sman

Mouseman said:


> Can you say hi to Gene for me?


Will do.  He lives right down the street from Paul.


----------



## hifi80sman

DigDub said:


> After some time with the APP with the white mesh removed from the rubber sleeves, I find the sound to be clearer, especially cymbals and hi hats, which used to be dark and subdued, is now more defined and present. The biggest change I observed is the sound stage is now more holographic and airy. With the mesh, the buds sounded pretty congested and music stayed was pretty much confined in each bud. Without the mesh, there was an instance where I thought I had turned on transparency mode but it was in fact music coming from the APP. Sound is able to punch through the single layer wire mesh now instead of being trapped behind 2 layers of mesh (the wire mesh on the buds and the white cloth mesh on the sleeves).
> 
> Downside might be poorer dirt and moisture resistance? I'm not sure if that's the purpose of the white mesh.


You're brave.  I can't bring myself to alter it.  I just polish them with a cotton ball.

Seriously though, I'm really liking Metal on the APP (Iron Maiden, KISS, Ozzy, Dio, etc.).


----------



## Caipirina

DigDub said:


> After some time with the APP with the white mesh removed from the rubber sleeves, I find the sound to be clearer, especially cymbals and hi hats, which used to be dark and subdued, is now more defined and present. The biggest change I observed is the sound stage is now more holographic and airy. With the mesh, the buds sounded pretty congested and music stayed was pretty much confined in each bud. Without the mesh, there was an instance where I thought I had turned on transparency mode but it was in fact music coming from the APP. Sound is able to punch through the single layer wire mesh now instead of being trapped behind 2 layers of mesh (the wire mesh on the buds and the white cloth mesh on the sleeves).
> 
> Downside might be poorer dirt and moisture resistance? I'm not sure if that's the purpose of the white mesh.



Next time I have a chance to get a spare pair of tips, I might give this 'hack' a shot


----------



## DigDub (Dec 3, 2019)

hifi80sman said:


> You're brave.  I can't bring myself to alter it.  I just polish them with a cotton ball.
> 
> Seriously though, I'm really liking Metal on the APP (Iron Maiden, KISS, Ozzy, Dio, etc.).


I listen to Slipknot on them, the cymbals and hi hats shine through with the mesh removed when they barely made an impression with the mesh on. IMO, the biggest change is the soundstage, the music seems to revolve around my head with the mesh removed.


----------



## tma6

d3myz said:


> A better comparison would be the bomaker, MW07, Tevi and the Anbes 359. They still have rolled off sub-bass. but with the bass eq on, I turn them up much louder without hurting my ears and the clarity is great!
> 
> The L2p.. well there's something about the refinement of the L2p that just tickles my ears and you can tell there's high quality drivers in it. but the BA/DD has a totally different sound, the L2p is thinner in the mids IMO. I still love it and my fav. setting is currently Sig. Sound, but loud so you can hear the highs and mids come through the bass. The T1x has a more narrow sound stage for sure. but the mids much thicker. I listen to a lot of metal and when things get gnarly the t1x doesn't have the separation anbes or the L2pro have (soundstage). I'm using the L2p medium tips, short throw on the L2p's and the longer throw on the Fiil's. I just tested them vs. my anbes 359's and I think the FIIL's may in fact sound better depending on the song and the tips. Feels like heresy
> 
> With the L2p tips they are tighter than the 359's, the highs are crisper and the bass is low, clean, punchy and controlled. However when I switch to my JVC spiral dots, the 359's sound better, you can really hear that sound stage spread out and I don't think the spiral dots complement the already well tuned highs in the T1x. Post rock/Alternative where there is less chaos, it's the exact opposite, but switching the T1x to the Spiral Dots, sounded excellent. All I know is this is a ridiculously good TWS for $40. Someone with the Tevi and the Bomaker needs to do an A/B test. If the Fiil has the sound stage the 359's did, the would be a clear winner imo, depending on the song. the 359's mids are a bit more bumped can tell if it's the mid/mids or high/mids etcThe T1x has better highs and the fact there's a cool app with a ton of customization's really makes this one of the best out there right now in the price range. On another note, What M&D no app? Another quick impression of the T1x. with the bass EQ on, because of the highish crossover it's almost like it wants to go down, but can't and in certain situations it gets a bit boomy. If you haven't listened to the same songs hundreds of times like I have when I test these damn TWS' than you may not notice it, but it can muddy the low end at certain frequencies. Now, would someone with a real knack for reviewing buy these things already an do a proper review?  Where's @Bartig at when you need him?



this was awesome thank you! Just ordered them, will do a side by side w the Tevis.


----------



## DigDub

Caipirina said:


> Next time I have a chance to get a spare pair of tips, I might give this 'hack' a shot


Actually I'm not sure if my local store are selling replacement tips, I just took my luck and it worked out.


----------



## FYLegend (Dec 3, 2019)

Anyone experience these issues with the Sabbat E12 Ultra or any other QCC3020 device?
- Duplicate listings on Bluetooth for the left and right buds. I find all the claims of "true mono mode" quite misleading since it's actually only playing one side, rather than a true mono downmix. I'm wondering if these two quirks are true for all QCC3020 TWS. Unfortunately since I'm using an Exynos Note 9 I can't test out Qualcomm TWS Plus.
- Sometimes the volume control doesn't seem to work on my phone. It might be linked to using the left or right bud as the master...

Also, they have some new marbled colours for the E12. I had seen a Taiwanese YouTube tech channel showing them but now they're more widely available.

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000423266730.html

A few more TWS:
Dyplay TWS - AptX + Type-C charging, 7 hours playback (35 hours with the 720mAh case). I'm awaiting their over-ear Urban Traveller 2 which has some positive reviews.
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000169735059.html
Alien Secret TWS QCC 010 - Has AptX, USB-C and Qi charging for under 30$.
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000295552833.html

Also, if you purchase the Jabra 75t on Amazon.ca now they are 204$, but they won't be shipped until December 14. Found it rather disappointing Jabra wasn't putting them on sale this year, and the sale prices for the 65t were the same as last yera.

_EDIT:_ Amazon.ca took off the listing. Maybe it was just too early, or maybe there was some exclusivity deal with Best Buy.


----------



## georgelai57

Should I rest, I wonder?


----------



## clerkpalmer

tinyman392 said:


> 250 is a bit of an overshot when he's modifying a 4 dollar part (a pair of tips is 4 dollars to replace).


I must be confused about what is being modified. I thought he was removing the protective screen on the headphones itself.


----------



## LordToneeus

hifi80sman said:


> You're brave.  I can't bring myself to alter it.  I just polish them with a cotton ball.
> 
> Seriously though, I'm really liking Metal on the APP (Iron Maiden, KISS, Ozzy, Dio, etc.).


Well, that’s as good of an endorsement as I’ll ever need, so looks like I’ll have to purchase these again and actually open them this time!


----------



## DigDub

clerkpalmer said:


> I must be confused about what is being modified. I thought he was removing the protective screen on the headphones itself.


Apologies for the confusion. The mod is done on the rubber tips. There's a white mesh covering the hole on the rubber tips. I removed that, not the grille on the earbud body.


----------



## Pete7874

jlo mein said:


> Used my L2P on a train today and that solidified my decision to return them. The isolation is nearly nonexistent with even the best fitting tips. Buying comply foam tips might fix it slightly, but can't fix how shallow the earbuds insert due to the size of the plastic housing.
> 
> The background hiss is intolerable when in quiet environments. I supposedly have the 2nd hardware revision.  (Received direct from Anker this past week)
> 
> It's unfortunate because the sound is fantastic, and would probably be even better if I could get proper sealing tips.  I'm now quite content sticking with my $30 Bomaker Sifi after testing the L2P and Shanling MTW100BA.


FYI, a third revision of L2P, supposedly fixing the hiss issue, will be out in about a week, according to Anker.  They told me I can return mine to them and they'll send out the updated version.

For me though, the hiss isn't as big of an issue as fit.  I get ear fatigue after 30 minutes or so with medium wings.  And the small wings make them fall out of my ears.  I also feel like they still have too much treble for my tastes, even when using the Treble Reducer curve.

I will most likely be returning them and looking for something else.

How does the Bomaker Sifi compare to L2P in terms of sound quality and comfort?


----------



## jlo mein (Dec 3, 2019)

Pete7874 said:


> FYI, a third revision of L2P, supposedly fixing the hiss issue, will be out in about a week, according to Anker.  They told me I can return mine to them and they'll send out the updated version.
> 
> How does the Bomaker Sifi compare to L2P in terms of sound quality and comfort?



They claimed the second revision fixed the hiss, not sure I want to roll the dice on the same story. Like you, I also have fit issues, mine more related to lack of isolation and seal.

Out of the box, the Bomaker has much more subdued highs with boomy bass.  They respond well to EQing without distortion though and can get a similar sound to the L2P, with a boomier, less punchy bass response and less soundstage and instrument separation.  Isolation is much quieter and comfort great as long as deep insertion doesn't bother you.  Along with its IPX7 rating, tiny pocketable case, and seamless single earbud switching I'm surprised it's only $30.


----------



## d3myz

georgelai57 said:


> Are you able to get the bass you can want via the Sony Connect app? Also which particular Spiral
> Dots are you using? Thanks


The bass is really good and even with it maxed on the app, it's plenty, but it's not like the L2pro bass.


----------



## Quicky32

I tried the stock silicone ear tips again on my LP2 and they go farther into my ear but the sound isn’t as loud as with my foam tips.

Any suggestions for TWS or sports earbuds that fit better and sound good?


----------



## duo8

FYLegend said:


> Anyone experience these issues with the Sabbat E12 Ultra or any other QCC3020 device?
> - Duplicate listings on Bluetooth for the left and right buds. I find all the claims of "true mono mode" quite misleading since it's actually only playing one side, rather than a true mono downmix. I'm wondering if these two quirks are true for all QCC3020 TWS. Unfortunately since I'm using an Exynos Note 9 I can't test out Qualcomm TWS Plus.
> - Sometimes the volume control doesn't seem to work on my phone. It might be linked to using the left or right bud as the master...


I have the Tronsmart Spunky Beat which uses the same chipset and the first is true in my case. There's a separate entry for each side, but only one shows as connected when both is used.


----------



## d3myz

Pete7874 said:


> FYI, a third revision of L2P, supposedly fixing the hiss issue, will be out in about a week, according to Anker.  They told me I can return mine to them and they'll send out the updated version.
> 
> For me though, the hiss isn't as big of an issue as fit.  I get ear fatigue after 30 minutes or so with medium wings.  And the small wings make them fall out of my ears.  I also feel like they still have too much treble for my tastes, even when using the Treble Reducer curve.
> 
> ...


My two cents is The L2p is on a different level than the bomaker, entirely, but it does insert deep into the ear canal depending on which bud you use. The bomaker is a 6mm graphene driver and it has a bright tuning. To me they were too bright and a little thin, I couldn't turn them up much without my ears hurting, same problem I had with the Tevi, but I like to listen to music so I can feel it, i don't have that problem with the sony's or the L2p because the bass balances out the highs for me. From what I remember the bomakers don't have a lot of bass, but bass sensitive people seem to like them a lot. The bomakers are $35 right now on amazon U.S. which is a great price, I just bought a pair for comparison, because I returned mine a couple months ago. I'd also recommend the Fiil T1x $40, it's the next best thing to the Anbes 359 in the sub $100 category although it has a more narrow soundstage, but from what I remember it has a lot more bass than the bomaker. Just remember, you are stepping down to a single Dynamic Driver from a coaxial Balanced Armature and a 10mm Dynamic Driver in the L2pro. It's not going to have quite the separation or sound stage the L2p has. Again, I haven't owned the bomaker in at least a couple months, so my impressions are from memory, i listented to the L2pro, T1x and the Anbes 359 yesterday.


----------



## Luchyres

Anyone get the air-xr for a second opinion yet? I'm also dying for news of the Nuarl N6 Pro....

Also, I felt you gents & ladies would appreciate this Insta post:


----------



## d3myz

Quicky32 said:


> I tried the stock silicone ear tips again on my LP2 and they go farther into my ear but the sound isn’t as loud as with my foam tips.
> 
> Any suggestions for TWS or sports earbuds that fit better and sound good?


JVC Spiral Dots are phenomenal. They are silicon, not quite as soft as spinfits, but to me spin fits crush the sound of the TWS too much. I use the M and the MS depending on the TWS. I also ordered some These Symbio tips. The WA and the W peel, I got them on BF for $8 a set, but they haven't arrived yet.


----------



## Pete7874

d3myz said:


> My two cents is The L2p is on a different level than the bomaker, entirely, but it does insert deep into the ear canal depending on which bud you use. The bomaker is a 6mm graphene driver and it has a bright tuning. To me they were too bright and a little thin, I couldn't turn them up much without my ears hurting, same problem I had with the Tevi, but I like to listen to music so I can feel it, i don't have that problem with the sony's or the L2p because the bass balances out the highs for me. From what I remember the bomakers don't have a lot of bass, but bass sensitive people seem to like them a lot. The bomakers are $35 right now on amazon U.S. which is a great price, I just bought a pair for comparison, because I returned mine a couple months ago. I'd also recommend the Fiil T1x $40, it's the next best thing to the Anbes 359 in the sub $100 category although it has a more narrow soundstage, but from what I remember it has a lot more bass than the bomaker. Just remember, you are stepping down to a single Dynamic Driver from a coaxial Balanced Armature and a 10mm Dynamic Driver in the L2pro. It's not going to have quite the separation or sound stage the L2p has. Again, I haven't owned the bomaker in at least a couple months, so my impressions are from memory, i listented to the L2pro, T1x and the Anbes 359 yesterday.


Thanks.  Yeah, I was looking at T1x as well.

To me, the L2P have just barely enough bass (I wish it had a bit more), and a bit too much treble, but all in all, not bad.  I suppose I would be disappointed with Bomaker and T1x in the bass department.

Are there any TWS out there that sound similar to L2P but offer better comfort/fit?


----------



## clerkpalmer

Kind of surprised anyone could think the l2p lacks bass.


----------



## Pete7874

clerkpalmer said:


> Kind of surprised anyone could think the l2p lacks bass.


It's just a personal preference.  Call me a basshead.  For example, I like over-ear headphones such as AudioTechnica ATH-M50, which are known for being rather bass heavy.  I realize this kind of bass may not be possible with TWS, but that's what I'd prefer.  I feel like my iBasso IT01 IEMs have more bass than L2P.  It's also possible that I am just not getting optimal seal with my L2P, but even if I manually hold them against my ears with my hands to increase seal, I am still not getting any more bass, just more muffled treble.


----------



## AtariPrime

Caipirina said:


> she might like the fit of the new AirPods Pro. They should let you try in store, if you live close to an Apple store.



But the Pros are in-ear.  We are trying to find something that sits at the entrance to the ear canal.


----------



## cwill

Got the Bomakers yesterday. They are not lacking in bass at all with a good seal. I do find the treble to be thin/unnatural. I need to stop returning to Amazon so I'd let these go for $30 shipped if anyone is interested.


----------



## clerkpalmer

AtariPrime said:


> But the Pros are in-ear.  We are trying to find something that sits at the entrance to the ear canal.



The pros are just barely in-ear though.  They aren't quite like the Bose but they sit about as far out as an IEM possibly can.  Even when I try to get them in further, they really don't go in.  May be worth a shot with a return policy as suggested above.


----------



## clerkpalmer

Pete7874 said:


> It's just a personal preference.  Call me a basshead.  For example, I like over-ear headphones such as AudioTechnica ATH-M50, which are known for being rather bass heavy.  I realize this kind of bass may not be possible with TWS, but that's what I'd prefer.  I feel like my iBasso IT01 IEMs have more bass than L2P.  It's also possible that I am just not getting optimal seal with my L2P, but even if I manually hold them against my ears with my hands to increase seal, I am still not getting any more bass, just more muffled treble.



Absolutely.  I have TFZ No.3 which many consider to be basshead and the L2P can hang with them in terms of bass.  To each their own for sure.  You are probably right about the TWS form factor.  Not sure you can squeeze much more bass out of a TWS beyond what the L2P offers.


----------



## webvan

So I tried to go running with the L2Ps today as they seemed to not have the '"walking thump" of other IEMs but it was a bust as I found that the L+ (tips with black ring) did not hold the seal at all in my right ear in spite of the wing. I though of moving up to the L wings but they push pretty hard...so I pulled out the Final E LL tips and will see how that goes !


----------



## d3myz

clerkpalmer said:


> Kind of surprised anyone could think the l2p lacks bass.


My Thoughts Exactly.


----------



## hifi80sman

Pete7874 said:


> It's just a personal preference.  Call me a basshead.  For example, I like over-ear headphones such as AudioTechnica ATH-M50, which are known for being rather bass heavy.  I realize this kind of bass may not be possible with TWS, but that's what I'd prefer.  I feel like my iBasso IT01 IEMs have more bass than L2P.  It's also possible that I am just not getting optimal seal with my L2P, but even if I manually hold them against my ears with my hands to increase seal, I am still not getting any more bass, just more muffled treble.


Did you try the Bass Booster EQ?  It tames the highs and increases the bass.


----------



## d3myz

cwill said:


> Got the Bomakers yesterday. They are not lacking in bass at all with a good seal. I do find the treble to be thin/unnatural. I need to stop returning to Amazon so I'd let these go for $30 shipped if anyone is interested.


Dang, I would of bought them, but I just bought some this morning on amazon. Just return them, man. They aren't going to ban you. trust me. I'm returning like 10 things today. 5 or 6 TWS' and some other crap I tested. You just have to keep your buy and keep ratio above the return rate. Buy groceries, candy, flour, chips, jerky etc. there's a LOT of cheap stuff on amazon. My neighbor works for marketing company that helps other companies sell on amazon and that's what he advised. Whatever you need that you typically go to the store to get unless it has a heavy shipping weight is probably the same cost if not cheaper. Hell, I buy my pasta sauce on there sometimes. I'm not in the habit of choosing amazon over my local markets, but I'm just saying, get your buy/return rate up and you'll never have a problem.


----------



## Soul_Viper

jlo mein said:


> Used my L2P on a train today and that solidified my decision to return them. The isolation is nearly nonexistent with even the best fitting tips. Buying comply foam tips might fix it slightly, but can't fix how shallow the earbuds insert due to the size of the plastic housing.
> 
> The background hiss is intolerable when in quiet environments. I supposedly have the 2nd hardware revision.  (Received direct from Anker this past week)
> 
> It's unfortunate because the sound is fantastic, and would probably be even better if I could get proper sealing tips.  I'm now quite content sticking with my $30 Bomaker Sifi after testing the L2P and Shanling MTW100BA.




I also was curious about how the bomaker sifi compares against the L2P and shanling, so thought about buying them to compare by myself. Nevertheless after reading you I think I will pass and stick with my bomaker


----------



## mjb152

I live in the UK and bought the 2nd version of the L2pro whilst on holiday from Amazon in the US.  I contacted soundcore about the 3rd revision, and they said they wouldn't replace them because of the warranty,  but they'd offer me a 50% return , which is pointless really.  Lesson learned.


----------



## Pete7874

hifi80sman said:


> Did you try the Bass Booster EQ?  It tames the highs and increases the bass.


Yup.  Bass Booster and Treble Reducer are the main two EQs that I use.  I would still prefer if treble could be reduced a bit more.  I could tinker with the internal EQ on my DAP and get that dialed in, but it causes further reduction in overall volume output.  Besides, my main issue with L2P is long-term comfort.  The sound issues is just nitpicking.


----------



## d3myz

Pete7874 said:


> It's just a personal preference.  Call me a basshead.  For example, I like over-ear headphones such as AudioTechnica ATH-M50, which are known for being rather bass heavy.  I realize this kind of bass may not be possible with TWS, but that's what I'd prefer.  I feel like my iBasso IT01 IEMs have more bass than L2P.  It's also possible that I am just not getting optimal seal with my L2P, but even if I manually hold them against my ears with my hands to increase seal, I am still not getting any more bass, just more muffled treble.



Ok, I have the It01 and to me it absolutely does not have more bass than the L2pro, but I'm just running it straight to the Iphone, no dac etc. I've got a TWS for you. The Chisana C1L. Lots and lots of Bass, they are fantastic and $22. They do have more bass then version 2/ Revision 1 of the L2pro. My version 1 of the L2pro has more bass then revision 1 etc. 

 I love the chisana good mids rolled of high mids and highs, but i wouldn't call them muddy. I'd say the bass is close to the L2p, but you don't have any of those bright highs. And my man, they get LOOOOUD! This was so product I got for free and tested and was like WHOA! I think everyone in this group who like great sounding bass should here these.


----------



## cwill

d3myz said:


> Dang, I would of bought them, but I just bought some this morning on amazon. Just return them, man. They aren't going to ban you. trust me. I'm returning like 10 things today. 5 or 6 TWS' and some other crap I tested. You just have to keep your buy and keep ratio above the return rate. Buy groceries, candy, flour, chips, jerky etc. there's a LOT of cheap stuff on amazon. My neighbor works for marketing company that helps other companies sell on amazon and that's what he advised. Whatever you need that you typically go to the store to get unless it has a heavy shipping weight is probably the same cost if not cheaper. Hell, I buy my pasta sauce on there sometimes. I'm not in the habit of choosing amazon over my local markets, but I'm just saying, get your buy/return rate up and you'll never have a problem.


Yeah, I've already gotten multiple emails about my returns so feel like I shouldn't push it. I actually don't order everyday items so my keep rate is very low.


----------



## Quicky32

I have the IT01 and the bass is there but it’s not as clean as the L2P to me.  I love the sound of the L2P but the fit does not work.


----------



## webvan

mjb152 said:


> I live in the UK and bought the 2nd version of the L2pro whilst on holiday from Amazon in the US.  I contacted soundcore about the 3rd revision, and they said they wouldn't replace them because of the warranty,  but they'd offer me a 50% return , which is pointless really.  Lesson learned.


Huh, are they saying the warranty only applies in the US where you bought them ?
They really have no shame in releasing THREE iterations of a pretty expensive device to (hopefully) get it right, wasting everyone's time in the process !


----------



## Pete7874 (Dec 3, 2019)

d3myz said:


> Ok, I have the It01 and to me it absolutely does not have more bass than the L2pro, but I'm just running it straight to the Iphone, no dac etc. I've got a TWS for you. The Chisana C1L. Lots and lots of Bass, they are fantastic and $22. They do have more bass then version 2/ Revision 1 of the L2pro. My version 1 of the L2pro has more bass then revision 1 etc.
> 
> I love the chisana good mids rolled of high mids and highs, but i wouldn't call them muddy. I'd say the bass is close to the L2p, but you don't have any of those bright highs. And my man, they get LOOOOUD! This was so product I got for free and tested and was like WHOA! I think everyone in this group who like great sounding bass should here these.


Thanks.  How is the fit/long term comfort for you on the Chisana?

And yeah, with the different versions/revisions of L2P, it's hard to tell bass performance.  I've read here before that bass was reduced in more recent versions and firmwares.  Seems like Anker keeps tweaking them.


----------



## Caipirina

AtariPrime said:


> But the Pros are in-ear.  We are trying to find something that sits at the entrance to the ear canal.


What @clerkpalmer says: they remind me of the Bose SSF the way they sit in the bowl of the ear, without being jammed in.  Hence I suggest to simply try. This is something quite unique in terms of fit.


----------



## d3myz

mjb152 said:


> I live in the UK and bought the 2nd version of the L2pro whilst on holiday from Amazon in the US.  I contacted soundcore about the 3rd revision, and they said they wouldn't replace them because of the warranty,  but they'd offer me a 50% return , which is pointless really.  Lesson learned.


Sorry to hear that, I bought mine directly from Anker and they let me keep both pair and are sending me the 2nd revision shortly.


----------



## d3myz (Dec 3, 2019)

Pete7874 said:


> Thanks.  How is the fit/long term comfort for you on the Chisana?
> 
> And yeah, with the different versions/revisions of L2P, it's hard to tell bass performance.  I've read here before that bass was reduced in more recent versions and firmwares.  Seems like Anker keeps tweaking them.


I think they are super comfortable. I use the Auvio tips, they sound the best all around. but they are a little longer so they don't sit flush in my ears, but who am I trying to impress? one of the pics is the auvio next to the spiral dot. you can see the dots are made of a different softer type of silicone.


----------



## AtariPrime

Caipirina said:


> What @clerkpalmer says: they remind me of the Bose SSF the way they sit in the bowl of the ear, without being jammed in.  Hence I suggest to simply try. This is something quite unique in terms of fit.



Will brave an Apple store and give them a try. Thx


----------



## FYLegend

MPOW M10. Pity about the stems. There's a chance to win them if you message them on Facebook. https://www.xmpow.com/products/mpow-m-free-m5t5-true-wireless-stereo-earbuds



duo8 said:


> I have the Tronsmart Spunky Beat which uses the same chipset and the first is true in my case. There's a separate entry for each side, but only one shows as connected when both is used.


Yeah, it's more irritating with Windows 10 where I can't readily distinguish which one is left and right. For some reason I can't permanently rename the Bluetooth devices.

Just wondering how long it took for you to receive it? I purchased the Onyx Neo but it still hasn't shipped out yet.

It's a pity Anker's site is US only. On Amazon.ca they removed the 20$ coupon for the L2P yesterday...


----------



## duo8

FYLegend said:


> MPOW M10. Pity about the stems. There's a chance to win them if you message them on Facebook. https://www.xmpow.com/products/mpow-m-free-m5t5-true-wireless-stereo-earbuds
> 
> 
> Yeah, it's more irritating with Windows 10 where I can't readily distinguish which one is left and right. For some reason I can't permanently rename the Bluetooth devices.
> ...


There's a local seller stocking these so it only took 2 days.


----------



## d3myz

My APPs are on their way. No telling when they will be here but as soon as apple has them back in stock, they'll ship. Any better suggestions?


----------



## clerkpalmer

d3myz said:


> My APPs are on their way. No telling when they will be here but as soon as apple has them back in stock, they'll ship. Any better suggestions?


ATT has them in stock for immediate shipping. Or at least they did as of yesterday. Best Buy’s was quoting Friday for shipping.


----------



## go0gle

Lp2 are perfect fit for me...I’ve had several 4-5hr sessions, no problem at all


----------



## d3myz

clerkpalmer said:


> ATT has them in stock for immediate shipping. Or at least they did as of yesterday. Best Buy’s was quoting Friday for shipping.


Thanks, i'll check it out.


----------



## d3myz

So, I got a wild hair and pulled out the EarFun free and compared it to the MW07 and the T1x. You can call BS on this, but it sounds better than both. Great bass, excellent highs without being too thin, much better mids than the T1x. I still love the T1x and the app is great, there's an actual burn in for the headphones, it says it takes 3,000 min. lol lots of different stages of pink noise at diff. volumes etc. i'm going to try it. I'm glad I bought 2 pair of the Free, they are fantastic. No volume control, but hey My sony's don't really either.


----------



## cwill (Dec 3, 2019)

d3myz said:


> So, I got a wild hair and pulled out the EarFun free and compared it to the MW07 and the T1x. You can call BS on this, but it sounds better than both. Great bass, excellent highs without being too thin, much better mids than the T1x. I still love the T1x and the app is great, there's an actual burn in for the headphones, it says it takes 3,000 min. lol lots of different stages of pink noise at diff. volumes etc. i'm going to try it. I'm glad I bought 2 pair of the Free, they are fantastic. No volume control, but hey My sony's don't really either.


If you don't mind a comparison between those and the SSK, Bomaker, Tronsmart Spunky if u have them? Earfun Free are pretty much the last ones on my list to try.


----------



## d3myz (Dec 3, 2019)

cwill said:


> Id you don't mind a comparison between those and the SSK, Bomaker, Tronsmart Spunky if u have them? Earfun Free are pretty much the last ones on my list to try.


Well, i've been listening to Erra for a couple hours with the Free, so they are excellent for metal. between the ssk and the free. I like the free better personally, but it has a more narrow sound stage and the the low mids are def more boosted and the free's thump more on the low end. It's really satisfying with heavy double kick. I also like the free better than the bomaker, but like i've said it's been months since i've heard it. i'll have them again on friday,but I remember them being sharp and clear and a little siblant with some thump. The free is very balanced to me slightly V shaped Get them dude, you won't regret it. I own two pair. and they have usb-c and wireless charging. The buttons are great easy to press. They are a little big, but it's never been an issue for me.


----------



## Quicky32

Are there any good semi-wireless or TWS with an ear clip for under $150?


----------



## cwill

d3myz said:


> Well, i've been listening to Erra for a couple hours with the Free, so they are excellent for metal. between the ssk and the free. I like the free better personally, but it has a more narrow sound stage and the the low mids are def more boosted and the free's thump more on the low end. It's really satisfying with heavy double kick. I also like the free better than the bomaker, but like i've said it's been months since i've heard it. i'll have them again on friday,but I remember them being sharp and clear and a little siblant with some thump. The free is very balanced to me slightly V shaped Get them dude, you won't regret it. I own two pair. and they have usb-c and wireless charging. The buttons are great easy to press. They are a little big, but it's never been an issue for me.


Thanks.


----------



## d3myz

cwill said:


> Thanks.


sorry, what i meant to say is the low mids in the ssk are more boosted, than the Free. which sounds better for certain genres.


----------



## Kulch (Dec 3, 2019)

You want more bass find the tight seal with comply foam tips. They turned my anbes into rumbling rockets. Has anyone tried foam tips on the LP2? I'm keen to try but I'm scared of the fit and if they hold for running/workouts. The anbes sit so far in my ear canal they are perfect for anything, including sleeping (on my side). U kinda forget they are even there.
Has anyone tried the liberty air 2s? The design is more conducive to workouts


----------



## d3myz

Kulch said:


> You want more bass find the tight seal with comply foam tips. They turned my anbes into rumbling rockets. Has anyone tried foam tips on the LP2? I'm keen to try but I'm scared of the fit and if they hold for running/workouts. The anbes sit so far in my ear canal they are perfect for anything, including sleeping (on my side). U kinda forget they are even there.
> Has anyone tried the liberty air 2s? The design is more conducive to workouts


That is really strange to me. I've always heard foam tips reduces bass because they are porous and that the also recess treble, but you have my interest peaked. I need to get some and try them out. What kind would you recommend?


----------



## Quicky32

Kulch said:


> You want more bass find the tight seal with comply foam tips. They turned my anbes into rumbling rockets. Has anyone tried foam tips on the LP2? I'm keen to try but I'm scared of the fit and if they hold for running/workouts. The anbes sit so far in my ear canal they are perfect for anything, including sleeping (on my side). U kinda forget they are even there.
> Has anyone tried the liberty air 2s? The design is more conducive to workouts



My LP2 seem louder and more bass heavy with foam tips but mine slip out of my ears when sweat is involved.


----------



## CocaCola15 (Dec 3, 2019)

I prefer Comply Audio Pro foam tips with the L2P, no wings. I don't use them to work out, just walk at the most. They stay put, sound great. Also, I use them on the go, so listen to the 13,000+ tracks on my IP8 so I can EQ them without the app. That works for me. At home, I use the Sony WH1000X-M3 or the Blon 03 buds, no need for TW in-ears. Anyway, the Comply foams are a great match with the L2P. Had some money on an Amazon gift card, so ordered the Jabra 75t (based on HiFlight's posts). Interested to compare. I've owned the Sonys, the Senn MTW, etc. Not worth the extra money. Have the Cambridge Melomania 1 also, love them (but only with foam).


----------



## Kulch

d3myz said:


> That is really strange to me. I've always heard foam tips reduces bass because they are porous and that the also recess treble, but you have my interest peaked. I need to get some and try them out. What kind would you recommend?



I just use the basic T400 foam tips. Tip roll them, chuck them in and they expand in your canal


----------



## Kvarkmeister

@d3myz

Can you please elaborate on the Mpow M20's? What made you put them off?

I cannot find decent reviews everywhere except for a video that doesn't even touch sound, but rather the functionality and design.

Thanks in advance!


----------



## d3myz

Kvarkmeister said:


> @d3myz
> 
> Can you please elaborate on the Mpow M20's? What made you put them off?
> 
> ...


 I can't remember exaclty, I only had them a day or so. I do remember the didn't sound anywhere near as good as the T5. They were an odd shape as well and they felt cheap. If you search this thread for the M20, I think i left my impressions somewhere.


----------



## Kvarkmeister

d3myz said:


> I can't remember exaclty, I only had them a day or so. I do remember the didn't sound anywhere near as good as the T5. They were an odd shape as well and they felt cheap. If you search this thread for the M20, I think i left my impressions somewhere.


Ah, I see. Yes, I scoured the forum and found some of your insight. Thanks for the incredibly quick reply! I think I'll skip these for now.


----------



## Blueshound24

d3myz said:


> I'd say the MW07 fits better than the L2p. It's still rather shallow, but not as shallow as the L2p at all.  Thanks for the heads up, I just picked up another MW077 for $124.50 in Steel Blue, What a deal!




Oh, heck. Why not...

I ordered the mw07 as well. It is a great price.


----------



## Quicky32

CocaCola15 said:


> I prefer Comply Audio Pro foam tips with the L2P, no wings. I don't use them to work out, just walk at the most. They stay put, sound great. Also, I use them on the go, so listen to the 13,000+ tracks on my IP8 so I can EQ them without the app. That works for me. At home, I use the Sony WH1000X-M3 or the Blon 03 buds, no need for TW in-ears. Anyway, the Comply foams are a great match with the L2P. Had some money on an Amazon gift card, so ordered the Jabra 75t (based on HiFlight's posts). Interested to compare. I've owned the Sonys, the Senn MTW, etc. Not worth the extra money. Have the Cambridge Melomani 1 also, love them (but only with foam).



How is the sound and fit with the Cambridge compared to the L2P?


----------



## hifi80sman

d3myz said:


> So, I got a wild hair and pulled out the EarFun free and compared it to the MW07 and the T1x. You can call BS on this, but it sounds better than both. Great bass, excellent highs without being too thin, much better mids than the T1x. I still love the T1x and the app is great, there's an actual burn in for the headphones, it says it takes 3,000 min. lol lots of different stages of pink noise at diff. volumes etc. i'm going to try it. I'm glad I bought 2 pair of the Free, they are fantastic. No volume control, but hey My sony's don't really either.


The Sony, after firmware update, now have the option to add Vol control.


----------



## CocaCola15 (Dec 3, 2019)

@Quicky32.

I like them both equally, different form factors and subtle sound differences. The M1s are built like tanks, a bit of the Frankenstein look. The L2P are, well, they just stick out a lot.

But they are both fantastic IMHO. I am using the L2P here right now, listening to Melody Gardot Live in Europe via Amazon HD Music. Don't turn on the app, just using the sound as is via the streaming service. Sounds sweet. Sound-wise, I am not expert but the L2P is a bit more treble-focused, in a good way. The M1s are smoother across the board. The M1s don't get much love here, but I  like them. I have like 12 pair of the OEM foamies (long story). Using the silicone tips, not the same for me. I guess I am a foam tip freak. End of story.


----------



## SoundChoice

Luchyres said:


> Anyone get the air-xr for a second opinion yet? I'm also dying for news of the Nuarl N6 Pro....
> 
> Also, I felt you gents & ladies would appreciate this Insta post:



“Put your TWS on a wire!”


----------



## Caipirina (Dec 3, 2019)

I want to add my praise for the Tronsmart Spunky Beat. They sound pretty fantastic! And the fit is excellent. They do remind me a lot of the Anbes 359 / SSK. Right out of the box with the supplied L size tips I get a great seal, just did a 10K run with them, not a single signal drop.
It appears that even though me stupid ordered a few days before Black Friday for 25$, I already received the new version. For sure I have volume control (triple tap), not sure if the LEDs were much different, my version still blinks blue every 5 or so seconds.
If you can grab them for 20$ (5 more h to go!), they are a steal. Nice small package, that included cable is kinda nice, don't really see me use it .. hmm .. maybe on a plane 

Cancelled my order of the Onyx Neo (16.99$ after coupon) though. They seem so similar. And i really have enough buds, and I am so in love with my APP! They are now even replacing my Bose QC35 at my desktop


----------



## bedlamite

Sorry guys, I've gone back 5 pages in this thread but I'm not seeing where I can pick up MW077s for 125 bucks? Could someone please regale me with a link?


----------



## clerkpalmer

bedlamite said:


> Sorry guys, I've gone back 5 pages in this thread but I'm not seeing where I can pick up MW077s for 125 bucks? Could someone please regale me with a link?


Sale was 1 day only. Kicking myself for not grabbing a set. Old ones support AAC too.


----------



## cwill

Caipirina said:


> I want to add my praise for the Tronsmart Spunky Beat. They sound pretty fantastic! And the fit is excellent. They do remind me a lot of the Anbes 359 / SSK. Right out of the box with the supplied L size tips I get a great seal, just did a 10K run with them, not a single signal drop.
> It appears that even though me stupid ordered a few days before Black Friday for 25$, I already received the new version. For sure I have volume control (triple tap), not sure if the LEDs were much different, my version still blinks blue every 5 or so seconds.
> If you can grab them for 20$ (5 more h to go!), they are a steal. Nice small package, that included cable is kinda nice, don't really see me use it .. hmm .. maybe on a plane
> 
> Cancelled my order of the Onyx Neo (16.99$ after coupon) though. They seem so similar. And i really have enough buds, and I am so in love with my APP! They are now even replacing my Bose QC35 at my desktop


While I really like how the Spunky Beats sound, I'm not able to listen because they are dropping connection literally every 3 seconds. 1 at a time, then both, then reconnecting. They have to be defective.


----------



## bedlamite

clerkpalmer said:


> Sale was 1 day only. Kicking myself for not grabbing a set. Old ones support AAC too.


Aw darn.


----------



## assassin10000 (Dec 3, 2019)

Caipirina said:


> I want to add my praise for the Tronsmart Spunky Beat. They sound pretty fantastic! And the fit is excellent. They do remind me a lot of the Anbes 359 / SSK. Right out of the box with the supplied L size tips I get a great seal, just did a 10K run with them, not a single signal drop.
> It appears that even though me stupid ordered a few days before Black Friday for 25$, I already received the new version. For sure I have volume control (triple tap), not sure if the LEDs were much different, my version still blinks blue every 5 or so seconds.
> If you can grab them for 20$ (5 more h to go!), they are a steal. Nice small package, that included cable is kinda nice, don't really see me use it .. hmm .. maybe on a plane
> 
> Cancelled my order of the Onyx Neo (16.99$ after coupon) though. They seem so similar. And i really have enough buds, and I am so in love with my APP! They are now even replacing my Bose QC35 at my desktop



Nice. Shallower fit or deep?

Once I get mine I'll let you know if they blink or not. Supposedly not.



cwill said:


> While I really like how the Spunky Beats sound, I'm not able to listen because they are dropping connection literally every 3 seconds. 1 at a time, then both, then reconnecting. They have to be defective.



Wow. That sucks. Have you tried resetting them and deleting them from your device and re-pairing?


----------



## cwill

assassin10000 said:


> Nice. Shallower fit or deep?
> 
> Once I get mine I'll let you know if they blink or not. Supposedly not.
> 
> ...


Yep. No dice. It's terrible. I almost wonder if my ears are touching the touch sensors since they are a deep insertion...


----------



## wksoh

georgelai57 said:


> Do the SSK/Anbes have AAC and what chip is used in them? I couldn’t find the answer on Aliexpress. Thanks


AAC according to Ali express


----------



## Pete7874

Caipirina said:


> If you can grab them for 20$ (5 more h to go!), they are a steal.


Where?


----------



## wksoh

Pete7874 said:


> Where?


Aliexpress


----------



## Caipirina

Pete7874 said:


> Where?


Intelligent Living Store on AliExpress
There’s another 1$ off coupon

N
Not sure if this is the new version though. Might pay like 3$ more from official store


----------



## Caipirina

Quicky32 said:


> Are there any good semi-wireless or TWS with an ear clip for under $150?


Clip on like this? 

 

This is a really weird style. And I doubt they are actually bone conducting... but always nice to see a different form factor


----------



## Pete7874

Caipirina said:


> Intelligent Living Store on AliExpress
> There’s another 1$ off coupon
> N
> Not sure if this is the new version though. Might pay like 3$ more from official store


Oh, Ok.  I am done ordering stuff from China.  It takes too damn long, especially around the holidays. I'd rather pay a few bucks more and get it from Amazon.  Just not sure which version Amazon has.


----------



## Caipirina

Caipirina said:


> I want to add my praise for the Tronsmart Spunky Beat. ...



By the way, also received the Soundcore Liberty Neo the same day, but spent so far much less time with them, but overall quite happy with the sound and the fit (though they seem huuuge compared to the same day arrival Spunky Beats) ... i cannot recall what made me order those though ... i guess cheap price compared to what they used to be listed for? Oh, and those rubber fittings are always nice ... sporty ... will try on run tomorrow, pretty sure they will have mega runner's thud (like the Spunky Beat also have)


----------



## Ultiwarlord

Hi, I wonder if anyone else tried TWS by AUXAO?

The driver used are 2 Balanced Armature (One Low, One (Mid - Highs))


----------



## Caipirina

Dang it! 1h54m more of sale and I have this fear-of-missing-out ... what am I missing ??? 
I feel I _have_ to order 'just one more' ... and don't know what ...  I sure have enough !!!

grrrrr


----------



## Peddler

Ultiwarlord said:


> Hi, I wonder if anyone else tried TWS by AUXAO?
> 
> The driver used are 2 Balanced Armature (One Low, One (Mid - Highs))
> 
> ...


----------



## georgelai57

Caipirina said:


> Dang it! 1h54m more of sale and I have this fear-of-missing-out ... what am I missing ???
> I feel I _have_ to order 'just one more' ... and don't know what ...  I sure have enough !!!
> 
> grrrrr


TWSaholics Anonymous Unite


----------



## Ultiwarlord

Hmm, I think its legit though. Found out that Taobao got sell this TWS. Below are pictures from one of buyers in Taobao:


----------



## webvan

Caipirina said:


> I want to add my praise for the Tronsmart Spunky Beat. They sound pretty fantastic! And the fit is excellent. They do remind me a lot of the Anbes 359 / SSK. Right out of the box with the supplied L size tips I get a great seal, *just did a 10K* run with them, not a single signal drop.
> It appears that even though me stupid ordered a few days before Black Friday for 25$, I already received the new version. For sure I have volume control (triple tap), not sure if the LEDs were much different, my version still blinks blue every 5 or so seconds.
> If you can grab them for 20$ (5 more h to go!), they are a steal. Nice small package, that included cable is kinda nice, don't really see me use it .. hmm .. maybe on a plane
> 
> Cancelled my order of the Onyx Neo (16.99$ after coupon) though. They seem so similar. And i really have enough buds, and I am so in love with my APP! They are now even replacing my Bose QC35 at my desktop



How was the THUMP? 
The Nilikin GO are on sale again so I might give them a try (11.11 order got canceled)


----------



## d3myz

hifi80sman said:


> The Sony, after firmware update, now have the option to add Vol control.


Yea, i have the update. still kind of dumb I have to sacrifice ANC or Play/Pause to get volume control. other than that, they are incredible.


----------



## d3myz

wksoh said:


> AAC according to Ali express


I'm pretty sure it's a realtek chip and it's the same one in the anbes.


----------



## AudioNoob

Posted my review of the Jeet Air Plus
https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/jeet-air-plus-tws.24072/reviews


----------



## Caipirina

webvan said:


> How was the THUMP?
> The Nilikin GO are on sale again so I might give them a try (11.11 order got canceled)


It was quite thumpy


----------



## Caipirina

georgelai57 said:


> TWSaholics Anonymous Unite


No kidding. 
1h left!!!

what what what???


----------



## d3myz

Just ordered Tronsmart Spunk Beats, They should be here shortly after christmas. LOL. Tomorrow i've got two Dveda's to review. The F8 and whatever the older model is.


----------



## chinmie

Caipirina said:


> By the way, also received the Soundcore Liberty Neo the same day, but spent so far much less time with them, but overall quite happy with the sound and the fit (though they seem huuuge compared to the same day arrival Spunky Beats) ... i cannot recall what made me order those though ... i guess cheap price compared to what they used to be listed for? Oh, and those rubber fittings are always nice ... sporty ... will try on run tomorrow, pretty sure they will have mega runner's thud (like the Spunky Beat also have)



They sure do thump, i tested on my ride this morning, but stangely enough, even though it vibrates and rumbles (like runner's thump, but at a more faster tempo) like other closed IEMs under the helmet, the frequency of the rumbles doesn't interfere too much like the other, so i can still hear the music more clearly.

I compared it to my Galaxy Buds, and while the Galaxy buds has a better technicalities in sound quality (better depth of soundstage, clearer separation), but i can't say there's a glaring weakness of the Anker Neo's sound. How do you compare it to the Tronsmart SQ wise? I was eyeing on the Onyx, but still hesitant. There's  also a few new ANC TWS that appeals to me, and also the new Mifo O7


----------



## d3myz

Caipirina said:


> No kidding.
> 1h left!!!
> 
> what what what???


If you don't have them already, get the Ear Fun Free and the Fiil T1x.


----------



## webvan

Caipirina said:


> It was quite thumpy


Thanks, it's not really surprising since they seal. Have you used the Nillkin GO again ? Would you say they're worth it for a runner or we're always going to be going back to the X12 anyway ?


----------



## georgelai57

Caipirina said:


> No kidding.
> 1h left!!!
> 
> what what what???


Everything on www.scarbir.com leaderboard. Or you’ve already got all those too


----------



## webvan

Quicky32 said:


> How is the sound and fit with the Cambridge compared to the L2P?


The Cambridge have a HUGE nozzle that needs to be rammed down you ear canal to get a seal. Needless to say it's a painful experience, I sent mine back in a hurry. I didn't care much for the sound either, very warm and forget about the mics. Cambridge told me I had to check that the mic hole was positioned towards the bottom when inserting...right, like we have nothing else to do and with no other TW having that requirement...
Compared to that the L2Ps are a piece of cake to fit and do not have to be rammed down your ear canal so you can actually wear them for more than 15 minutes and not have sore ears the next day  Like you I had fit issues with the stock tips but with the Final E LL it's ok now. It's a shallow fit and seal though. Won't work for noisy environments but I have the Echo Buds for that.


----------



## cwill

d3myz said:


> If you don't have them already, get the Ear Fun Free and the Fiil T1x.


Are these on sale somewhere?


----------



## Caipirina

d3myz said:


> If you don't have them already, get the Ear Fun Free and the Fiil T1x.


The Fiil are like 80$ on AliX and when I search ear fun free ....


----------



## Caipirina

georgelai57 said:


> Everything on www.scarbir.com leaderboard. Or you’ve already got all those too


Hehe, was looking around there as well. Either have or higher price range or ‘do I really need another QCY?’


----------



## georgelai57

Caipirina said:


> The Fiil are like 80$ on AliX and when I search ear fun free ....


You’re welcome https://m-uk.gearbest.com/bluetooth-headphones/pp_3008996070584275.html


----------



## chinmie

i buckled and purchased the Sony WF1000xm3, i was searching for ANC for travelling, been tossing up between full headphone or this XM3, but decided going for the latter. can't wait for tomorrow when it arrives


----------



## Blueshound24

Besides the shallow fit, I am not really liking the overblown bass in the L2P, and find myself gravitating to the MTW100 more often for its neutral yet dynamic sound. I have tried all the presets in the app, I even tried the HearID without any help, as well as non-foam tips. The bass is just always there calling attention to itself. I would say these would be good for a basshead.   _I'm hoping the mw07 is not so bassy. _


----------



## duo8

Ultiwarlord said:


> Hmm, I think its legit though. Found out that Taobao got sell this TWS. Below are pictures from one of buyers in Taobao:


Wish the WF-1000XM3 could fit like that.
Mine kinda stick out, I still feel like they're supposed to go deeper in. They sit very well on my ears if I remove the eartips.


----------



## Soul_Viper

I have a question for all the owners of the bomaker sifi: do you have eq them? maybe will improve in terms of sound quality?


----------



## Caipirina

chinmie said:


> i buckled and purchased the Sony WF1000xm3, i was searching for ANC for travelling, been tossing up between full headphone or this XM3, but decided going for the latter. can't wait for tomorrow when it arrives



That's one I have yet to try. When I went to Stereo.sg in Singapore, their demo model was out of order ... 

Will test soon at e-earphone   Really hope I don't want to buy them  already have 2 Sony models with 'ANC', which were both rather underwhelming.


----------



## BigZ12

I sold my Tronsmart Spunky Beats without volume control (and next track command on the left bud). 
Today I got the new version with volume control. 
Sad to see both volume up and next track is on the left bud...  
But it works, and otherwise these buds are really impressing me. Fit is perfect, sound is good, bt connection flawless and now with volume control they are a really good buy for $21 (what I paid on AliE just before BF)
Price vs sound/fit/features they are a 9 out of 10.


----------



## chinmie

Caipirina said:


> That's one I have yet to try. When I went to Stereo.sg in Singapore, their demo model was out of order ...
> 
> Will test soon at e-earphone   Really hope I don't want to buy them  already have 2 Sony models with 'ANC', which were both rather underwhelming.



but you do have the APP, right? based on reviews, those two have a comparable ANC, with the APP edges out the Sony on ambient mode and call quality, so you might end up don't have to buy it.

but then again... they said the Sony has better sound.... hmmmmm


----------



## Caipirina

chinmie said:


> but you do have the APP, right? based on reviews, those two have a comparable ANC, with the APP edges out the Sony on ambient mode and call quality, so you might end up don't have to buy it.
> 
> but then again... they said the Sony has better sound.... hmmmmm



the Sony have no IPX rating at all, no? that would limit usage for me. But I still want to at least listen to them. And yes, I have the APP... really liking the fit and the ANC.


----------



## Quicky32

I used my LP2 with silicone tips this morning at the gym and the left 1 felt like it wanted to fall out.  I have trouble focusing on my work out because I"m fiddling with my earbuds....not sure where to go from here?


----------



## clerkpalmer

Caipirina said:


> the Sony have no IPX rating at all, no? that would limit usage for me. But I still want to at least listen to them. And yes, I have the APP... really liking the fit and the ANC.



None.  Zip.  Zilch.  Inexcusable if you ask me.  But, like you, I have a pair on the way.  Im probably going to roll the dice and sweat on them a little and see what happens.  Sony pulled some marketing nonsense about it by saying basically you "should be fine using these in the gym" but presumably sweat damage is not formally covered by warranty.  My guess is that if something happened, Sony would probably cover them anyway but certainly do so at your own risk.


----------



## chinmie

Caipirina said:


> the Sony have no IPX rating at all, no? that would limit usage for me. But I still want to at least listen to them. And yes, I have the APP... really liking the fit and the ANC.



yup, none at all.. i won't be using them in the shower anytime soon 
the only thing that made me curious is because i really like the older wf-1000x sound, and also the ANC. if it turns out to be redundant, i might sell it, purchase the WH-1000xm3 instead, or a cheaper ANC headphone and just use my TWS under it


----------



## sica

Anyone have a set of MW07 Go in black or red they want to let go?


----------



## d3myz

Caipirina said:


> The Fiil are like 80$ on AliX and when I search ear fun free ....


Hahahahahah!! Awesome.


----------



## d3myz

chinmie said:


> i buckled and purchased the Sony WF1000xm3, i was searching for ANC for travelling, been tossing up between full headphone or this XM3, but decided going for the latter. can't wait for tomorrow when it arrives


I got mine Sat. and i'm loving them. I understand now when people say the use them when they want to listen to music, they def. aren't daily drivers for me and there are some annoyances, but man they do sound fantastic, now if they would only hook up to my PS4. damnit, sony.


----------



## HiFlight

After spending countless hours fiddling with my L2P in search of a comfortable and secure fit, I have finally relegated them to my box of "Maybe I Will Try Again Sometime" TWS & IEMs.   

Besides the fit and comfort issues, the heavy bass emphasis really spoiled the listening experience for me, as I mostly listen to acoustic and classical and very little rock.

The L2P folks sorely need to include the ability to create a custom EQ to their app in order to address the excessive bass issue mentioned by many owners.


----------



## BigZ12 (Dec 4, 2019)

I have mentioned this before, and now I've tried my second pair of the Airpods Pro.
Very good fit, but is it too good in my ears? (all type of in-ear buds fit very deep and well in my ear)

When using ANC I get noticable changes in the mids and treble when walking/chewing/moving mouth.
Like the voice and treble "fluctuates" (I don't know how to explain it better) with movements. It's the same with the ambient/transparent mode. The outside sound changes a lot when chewing gum for example.

It's like the bud sits too deep in the concha (see pic), and then the part of the bud with the mic is touching the structure and making the sound change with movements?
With ANC/ambient off, I don't experience this.

I really like almost every feature (sound, easy connecting, range, fit, comfort, case etc) with the APP, but this is ruining them for me anyways.
Anyone with similar experiences?!?

Edit: If I put them more loosely in the ear, so the stem don't touch my chin, I don't experience this as much. But then the lack of seal is making the bass disappear (and the fit test is failing)


----------



## Blueshound24 (Dec 4, 2019)

HiFlight said:


> After spending countless hours fiddling with my L2P in search of a comfortable and secure fit, I have finally relegated them to my box of "Maybe I Will Try Again Sometime" TWS & IEMs.
> 
> Besides the fit and comfort issues, *the heavy bass emphasis really spoiled the listening experience for me, as I mostly listen to acoustic and classical and very little rock*.
> 
> The L2P folks sorely need to include the ability to create a custom EQ to their app in order to address the excessive bass issue mentioned by many owners.




Totally agree. And I listen to mostly Jazz, Blues and Rock with a smattering of just about everything else. One example that really shows the overblown bass is Stevie Ray Vaughan's "Tin Pan Alley", which admittedly has a heavy bass line to it, but on many other IEM's and Cans the bass is much more controlled and textured. All I hear with that song, (among many other songs), is the overblown bass being thrust in my face and I cannot enjoy no matter what EQ I use. As I said before, for me, I prefer the more balanced mtw100 over the L2P and I will be returning the latter.


----------



## d3myz

Blueshound24 said:


> Besides the shallow fit, I am not really liking the overblown bass in the L2P, and find myself gravitating to the MTW100 more often for its neutral yet dynamic sound. I have tried all the presets in the app, I even tried the HearID without any help, as well as non-foam tips. The bass is just always there calling attention to itself. I would say these would be good for a basshead.   _I'm hoping the mw07 is not so bassy. _


Have you tried using JVC Spiral dots? They take a lot of the boom out of bass and give them more clean punch.


----------



## Blueshound24

d3myz said:


> Have you tried using JVC Spiral dots? They take a lot of the boom out of bass and give them more clean punch.



I have not. But I will pull some out of my tip drawer and give it a go, but I have doubts tips can remedy this.


----------



## clerkpalmer

BigZ12 said:


> I have mentioned this before, and now I've tried my second pair of the Airpods Pro.
> Very good fit, but is it too good in my ears? (all type of in-ear buds fit very deep and well in my ear)
> 
> When using ANC I get noticable changes in the mids and treble when walking/chewing/moving mouth.
> ...



I think you are describing the active EQ that Apple is touting as a feature.  It is supposed to continually adjust based on fit etc.  You must have good hearing if you are noticing that.  I haven't noticed it on mine.


----------



## webvan

Ultiwarlord said:


> Hmm, I think its legit though. Found out that Taobao got sell this TWS. Below are pictures from one of buyers in Taobao:



Looks like a nice fit. They remind of the KZs and also of a TWE from a kickstarter that someone got on here ? They had been seen on AliBaba before being pulled.



BigZ12 said:


> I have mentioned this before, and now I've tried my second pair of the Airpods Pro.
> Very good fit, but is it too good in my ears? (all type of in-ear buds fit very deep and well in my ear)
> 
> When using ANC I get noticable changes in the mids and treble when walking/chewing/moving mouth.
> ...



Yes I noticed that too when running with them and with ANC I had these "fluctuations" (I'd called them "interferences" I think, like some shuffling sound). Very annoying.
Anyway for running I think I'm going to stop wasting my time trying to do better than the X12s as I've come to the conclusion that it's just not possible ! I started out with the L2Ps today as they seemed to have less "thump" when walking than other IEMs I've used but that was probably due to a poor seal with the stock tips. With the Final E LL tips that give me a better seal it was ok at first and then became annoying. The wings were probably moving around a bit too and somehow I felt something was "off" with my stride/balance. I stopped and switched to the X12s and wow, night and day ! No more "balance" issues, great and rich sound, "in tune" with the environment. So yes I run in quiet environments alongside a rvier so I only really hear the noise of my strides.


----------



## Joshiwo

My bank tends to run limited deals with selected stores a few times a year when paying with their MasterCard. They are running the deal this week, starting tomorrow (Thursday) until Saturday, with 20 % off everything at their selected stores.

One of the stores just received a pair of 75t's in stock today. Just reserved them for pickup tomorrow. Talk about luck!


----------



## howdy

Accidentally bought the LP2s Sunday and paid full retail of 160. I have not received any email from them regarding shipping or anything. I will send them back as I don't wait to pay full price when you can generally get 40 bucks off.


----------



## d3myz

Blueshound24 said:


> I have not. But I will pull some out of my tip drawer and give it a go, but I have doubts tips can remedy this.


Could be, but It never ceases to amaze me how much tips change the sound of a TWS/IEM. The JVC's especially.


----------



## BigZ12

clerkpalmer said:


> I think you are describing the active EQ that Apple is touting as a feature.  It is supposed to continually adjust based on fit etc.  You must have good hearing if you are noticing that.  I haven't noticed it on mine.


I'm blessed with good hearing, think we've discussed that before. (SBC noise, crackling etc with the Senn' MTW  ) 
But I don't think it's the feature you're talking about. 
It's like the bud sits so deep/snug, the part where the mics for ANC and ambient sound is/are (are there multiple mics?) placed, touches the structure of the ear that's moving with movement/chewing etc. I hear this just by walking across the floor in my apartment.
It really ruins the sound


----------



## Blueshound24

I have the mw07 on the way. To those who have experience with both the L2P and mw07 how would you describe the differences between the two? And especially, I am hopeful the mw07's bass is more controlled and balanced with the mids and highs than the L2P.


----------



## webvan

Blueshound24 said:


> Totally agree. And I listen to mostly Jazz, Blues and Rock with a smattering of just about everything else. One example that really shows the overblown bass is Stevie Ray Vaughan's "Tin Pan Alley", which admittedly has a heavy bass line to it, but on many other IEM's and Cans the bass is much more controlled and textured. All I hear with that song, (among many other songs), is the overblown bass being thrust in my face and I cannot enjoy no matter what EQ I use. As I said before, for me, I prefer the more balanced mtw100 over the L2P and I will be returning the latter.


What EQ setting are you using ? I pulled up TPA in Tidal (studio version) and with the HearID (or Soundcore Signature) it sounds great TBH, the bass is not overblown at all to my ears. You could always try the "reduced bass" setting to see if it helps.


----------



## Caipirina

chinmie said:


> yup, none at all.. i won't be using them in the shower anytime soon
> the only thing that made me curious is because i really like the older wf-1000x sound, and also the ANC. if it turns out to be redundant, i might sell it, purchase the WH-1000xm3 instead, or a cheaper ANC headphone and just use my TWS under it


Now I want to recharge and listen to my wf1000x again. They get hardly ever any playtime. (Also no IPX rating, plus the case handles really poorly)


----------



## BigZ12 (Dec 4, 2019)

webvan said:


> Yes I noticed that too when running with them and with ANC I had these "fluctuations" (I'd called them "interferences" I think, like some shuffling sound). Very annoying.


Thanks for your reply.
In one way good to hear that others experience the same "phenomenon", but not good to know this is an issue.
For me this could be a dealbreaker.

Edit: Could you try the APP's while chewing, moving your mouth (feel free to exaggerate the movements a little.) Do you hear the same fluctuations/shuffling of the sound as when you run?


----------



## clerkpalmer

Blueshound24 said:


> I have the mw07 on the way. To those who have experience with both the L2P and mw07 how would you describe the differences between the two? And especially, I am hopeful the mw07's bass is more controlled and balanced with the mids and highs than the L2P.



It is much more controlled.  It is nice, deep and tight with little bleed or boom.  If that's your primary concern, I think you will be very happy with the MW07. The L2P kind of reminds me of an MW07 on steroids.  The L2P can be too much of a good thing sometimes but I really enjoy them for the gym.  I probably wouldn't do any critical listening with them whereas the MW07 absolutely can be used that way.


----------



## clerkpalmer

BigZ12 said:


> I'm blessed with good hearing, think we've discussed that before. (SBC noise, crackling etc with the Senn' MTW  )
> But I don't think it's the feature you're talking about.
> It's like the bud sits so deep/snug, the part where the mics for ANC and ambient sound is/are (are there multiple mics?) placed, touches the structure of the ear that's moving with movement/chewing etc. I hear this just by walking across the floor in my apartment.
> It really ruins the sound



Yeah, I remember now.  I never did hear that crackling.   You have golden ears.  Blessing and a curse probably.


----------



## Blueshound24

clerkpalmer said:


> It is much more controlled.  It is nice, deep and tight with little bleed or boom.  If that's your primary concern, I think you will be very happy with the MW07. The L2P kind of reminds me of an MW07 on steroids.  The L2P can be too much of a good thing sometimes but I really enjoy them for the gym.  I probably wouldn't do any critical listening with them whereas the MW07 absolutely can be used that way.



Thanks, that is good to hear! Pun intended


----------



## LordToneeus

Joshiwo said:


> My bank tends to run limited deals with selected stores a few times a year when paying with their MasterCard. They are running the deal this week, starting tomorrow (Thursday) until Saturday, with 20 % off everything at their selected stores.
> 
> One of the stores just received a pair of 75t's in stock today. Just reserved them for pickup tomorrow. Talk about luck!



That's a heck of a score!  I'm sure I couldn't resist trying them for that price.


----------



## Blueshound24

webvan said:


> What EQ setting are you using ? I pulled up TPA in Tidal (studio version) and with the HearID (or Soundcore Signature) it sounds great TBH, the bass is not overblown at all to my ears. You could always try the "reduced bass" setting to see if it helps.



I tried everyone of the Soundcore EQ settings as well as HearID and could not get over the large amount of bass. And sorry, but before you say try a non-Soundcore EQ, I am not a big fan of EQ. If I had to open up a separate, non Soundcore EQ and pull up a specific EQ for each one of my IEM's, buds and cans it would drive me to distraction, because I would find that way too much work just to enjoy the music. I would much rather just find a IEM, bud or can that matches my prefered listening sound signature.


----------



## al2813

I ordered the L2P and sent them back immediately. Cannot fit them (and the more I am getting into IEMs the more I realize I have a serious fit issue - especially in my left ear). I ordered the APP. Expensive but at least by the looks of it they will fit.


----------



## CocaCola15

webvan said:


> The Cambridge have a HUGE nozzle that needs to be rammed down you ear canal to get a seal. Needless to say it's a painful experience, I sent mine back in a hurry. I didn't care much for the sound either, very warm and forget about the mics. Cambridge told me I had to check that the mic hole was positioned towards the bottom when inserting...right, like we have nothing else to do and with no other TW having that requirement...
> Compared to that the L2Ps are a piece of cake to fit and do not have to be rammed down your ear canal so you can actually wear them for more than 15 minutes and not have sore ears the next day  Like you I had fit issues with the stock tips but with the Final E LL it's ok now. It's a shallow fit and seal though. Won't work for noisy environments but I have the Echo Buds for that.


Yes the M1 TW phones have large sound tubes but some people’s ears (mine) are fine with them. I use the stock foam tips, no problem.

As for sound to my ears they compare favorably to the L2P, albeit with some minor EQ tweaks. 

Consensus is a word that has no meaning on the TW thread. Or any other thread for that matter.

My point: If the CA phones fit your ear canals comfortably they do deliver very good sound. I don’t really handle calls with my TW phones, so that could be an issue for some. The Sony WH1000-M3 also is crappy for calls but sound great, trade off.


----------



## Quicky32

al2813 said:


> I ordered the L2P and sent them back immediately. Cannot fit them (and the more I am getting into IEMs the more I realize I have a serious fit issue - especially in my left ear). I ordered the APP. Expensive but at least by the looks of it they will fit.



I have the same issue with my left ear, weird.


----------



## Blueshound24 (Dec 4, 2019)

al2813 said:


> I ordered the L2P and sent them back immediately. *Cannot fit them (and the more I am getting into IEMs the more I realize I have a serious fit issue* - especially in my left ear). I ordered the APP. Expensive but at least by the looks of it they will fit.



It's not just your fit problems with the L2P, they are for a lot of people.


----------



## Blueshound24

webvan said:


> What EQ setting are you using ? I pulled up TPA in Tidal (studio version) and with the HearID (or Soundcore Signature) it sounds great TBH, the bass is not overblown at all to my ears. You could always try the "reduced bass" setting to see if it helps.


 
BTW, did you listen to the TPA version on "Couldn't Stand The Weather"? That is the version where the bass is, I believe, a bit overdone.


----------



## hifi80sman

Blueshound24 said:


> I have the mw07 on the way. To those who have experience with both the L2P and mw07 how would you describe the differences between the two? And especially, I am hopeful the mw07's bass is more controlled and balanced with the mids and highs than the L2P.


I find the L2P can get a little sharp after a while, so basically what I mean, is although it sounds great, it can become fatiguing.  I'd prefer a traditional EQ for the L2P to address some of the extremes, instead of presets.  The MW07 on the other hand, is a bit more "natural" in the upper frequencies, although some people still say it's sharp.  Personally, I'm a bit treble sensitive, and while I would certainly not describe them as piercing, I wouldn't say they are relaxed either.

To second @clerkpalmer analogy, the L2P are basically like the MW07 on steroids.


----------



## d3myz

howdy said:


> Accidentally bought the LP2s Sunday and paid full retail of 160. I have not received any email from them regarding shipping or anything. I will send them back as I don't wait to pay full price when you can generally get 40 bucks off.


They are currently $110 on amazon. I also have an unopened new pair that I got during their sale. If you or anyone is interested DM me. They are revision 1/ version 2 and I bought them directly from anker.


----------



## Blueshound24 (Dec 4, 2019)

hifi80sman said:


> I find the L2P can get a little sharp after a while, so basically what I mean, is although it sounds great, it can become fatiguing.  I'd prefer a traditional EQ for the L2P to address some of the extremes, instead of presets.  The MW07 on the other hand, is a bit more "natural" in the upper frequencies, although some people still say it's sharp.  Personally, I'm a bit treble sensitive, and while I would certainly not describe them as piercing, I wouldn't say they are relaxed either.
> 
> To second @clerkpalmer analogy, the L2P are basically like the MW07 on steroids.




Thanks, I can appreciate treble that some may say is a little "hot". That helps to overcome a bit of hearing loss in my 'old' ears.


----------



## tma6

Reading all these posts on the L2Ps and can definitely understand some people having fit issues, though they fit my ears perfectly. They are a bit bulky. For me sound wise they are not the most versatile set since they do have a somewhat loose, heavier, resonant bass that does not pair great with more subtle tracks, however for tracks that benefit from that type of bass there's no other TWS that I've tried so far that can give you that experience without bass becoming muddied or distorted. Regarding the highs on the L2Ps, I definitely get why those who are treble sensitive could have issues for certain tracks, however they also have some of the better detail retrieval on the market for that price and blow the APPs out of the water in this regard imo. I do think the Vocal Booster EQ setting in the app really helps control both the highs and the bass on the L2Ps so I highly recommend trying it. 

I still think the MW07/MW07+ have the best bass and overall balanced and detailed sound I've heard in a TWS set. For me they're still at the top, but the price is obviously tough. 

In other news, I have to say the Fiil T1X are actually pretty solid so far. Just received them today and really like the overall tonality of the mids and highs particularly for the price. Considering doing a shorter review and comparison to other TWS I have at the moment.


----------



## Blueshound24

tma6 said:


> Reading all these posts on the L2Ps and can definitely understand some people having fit issues, though they fit my ears perfectly. They are a bit bulky. For me sound wise they are not the most versatile set since *they do have a somewhat loose, heavier, resonant bass that does not pair great with more subtle tracks*, however for tracks that benefit from that type of bass there's no other TWS that I've tried so far that can give you that experience without bass becoming muddied or distorted. Regarding the highs on the L2Ps, I definitely get why those who are treble sensitive could have issues for certain tracks, however they also have some of the better detail retrieval on the market for that price and blow the APPs out of the water in this regard imo. I do think the Vocal Booster EQ setting in the app really helps control both the highs and the bass on the L2Ps so I highly recommend trying it.
> 
> I still think the MW07/MW07+ have the best bass and overall balanced and detailed sound I've heard in a TWS set. For me they're still at the top, but the price is obviously tough.
> 
> In other news, I have to say the Fiil T1X are actually pretty solid so far. Just received them today and really like the overall tonality of the mids and highs particularly for the price. Considering doing a shorter review and comparison to other TWS I have at the moment.




Well put.


----------



## webvan (Dec 4, 2019)

Blueshound24 said:


> BTW, did you listen to the TPA version on "Couldn't Stand The Weather"? That is the version where the bass is, I believe, a bit overdone.



Listening to it now, bass is indeed a bit "much" with the "HearID"/"Signature" preset, still quite pleasant. More so than with "Bass Reduction" actually.
As for your previous comment about the hassle of having to deal with EQing rather than have the sound you like out of the box, sure, but for the L2Ps, it's a set and forget as it "sticks" once you close the app so that's fine by me and it makes perfect sense as they can cater to the various tastes out there. Where it's more problematic is for a TWE when there's no app and you have to fiddle with system wide or music player EQ settings. Actually we're pretty fortunate with "our" TWEs since wired IEMS don't allow for that kind of tuning, at least those I'm aware of.

Gave "Couldn't Stand The Weather" a try with the Echo Buds and it comes out very differently ! The bass is still there but does not "flood" the music. The soundstage (width and depth) is not as impressive too, you're not "in" the music. It's fine taken "separately" but coming after the L2P it's not quite as pleasing


----------



## d3myz

Blueshound24 said:


> I have the mw07 on the way. To those who have experience with both the L2P and mw07 how would you describe the differences between the two? And especially, I am hopeful the mw07's bass is more controlled and balanced with the mids and highs than the L2P.


It's Significantly more controlled and there is Significantly less of it. I like them, but I prefer the Sony's, Earfun Free, T1x. I just a/b tested them vs. the MW07. I'd buy the latter two over the MW07,  However the MW07's mic for call is superb and I just used the short L2pro tips on the MW07 and it was a game changer, so much more bass. Still controlled and accurate but much better than the stock tips, still the mids are lacking that depth and they highs aren't thin, but thinner. The Earfun has better mids and good highs, they are rolled off, but still sound good they aren't as crisp as the MW07 or the T1x which on bass eq has more bass than both and better highs. I'm just really impressed wtih the T1x, if you turn the bass eq off, you an incredibly crisp and balanced sound and if you want to turn it up, the earfun maintains really nice detailed bass at higher volume. I'm sure that was way more than you asked for, sorry.


----------



## Blueshound24 (Dec 4, 2019)

webvan said:


> Listening to it now, bass is indeed a bit "much" with the "HearID"/"Signature" preset, still quite pleasant. More so than with "Bass Reduction" actually.
> As for your previous comment about the hassle of having to deal with EQing rather than have the sound you like out of the box, sure, but for the L2Ps, *it's a set and forget as it "sticks" once you close the app so that's fine by me and it makes perfect sense as they can cater to the various tastes out there*. Where it's more problematic is for a TWE when there's no app and you have to fiddle with system wide or music player EQ settings. Actually we're pretty fortunate with "our" TWEs since wired IEMS don't allow for that kind of tuning, at least those I'm aware of.




Agreed. It is a wonderful innovative solution if you are able to find the setting that works, however, it is useless if one is unable to find a setting that conforms with one's tastes. I believe it has been said here before, but maybe if it had a regular EQ or Parametric EQ it would be more versatile and useful for more users.


----------



## d3myz

tma6 said:


> Reading all these posts on the L2Ps and can definitely understand some people having fit issues, though they fit my ears perfectly. They are a bit bulky. For me sound wise they are not the most versatile set since they do have a somewhat loose, heavier, resonant bass that does not pair great with more subtle tracks, however for tracks that benefit from that type of bass there's no other TWS that I've tried so far that can give you that experience without bass becoming muddied or distorted. Regarding the highs on the L2Ps, I definitely get why those who are treble sensitive could have issues for certain tracks, however they also have some of the better detail retrieval on the market for that price and blow the APPs out of the water in this regard imo. I do think the Vocal Booster EQ setting in the app really helps control both the highs and the bass on the L2Ps so I highly recommend trying it.
> 
> I still think the MW07/MW07+ have the best bass and overall balanced and detailed sound I've heard in a TWS set. For me they're still at the top, but the price is obviously tough.
> 
> In other news, I have to say the Fiil T1X are actually pretty solid so far. Just received them today and really like the overall tonality of the mids and highs particularly for the price. Considering doing a shorter review and comparison to other TWS I have at the moment.


I just swapped the tips on my FIILs and am using the stock L2P tips and man they sound excellent. Also, remember the FIIL app. there are tons of features, including an EQ. I think they sound better than the MW07.


----------



## Kvarkmeister

I recently became very intrigued in the Fiil T1X earbuds, however, the AAC/SBC Bluetooth codec kind of put me off, because I use Android and I hear AAC has no significant benefits for Android users and SBC is inconsistent and aged(?) I would have idealised aptX.

Does anyone have any inputs on this? How is the experience on Android? What are your thoughts about these earbuds in general?


----------



## cwill

Kvarkmeister said:


> I recently became very intrigued in the Fiil T1X earbuds, however, the AAC/SBC Bluetooth codec kind of put me off, because I use Android and I hear AAC has no significant benefits for Android users and SBC is inconsistent and aged(?) I would have idealised aptX.
> 
> Does anyone have any inputs on this? How is the experience on Android? What are your thoughts about these earbuds in general?


I used to think the same way. Then I found out that the codec doesn't really matter at all. I have SBC buds that sound far better than others with APTX.


----------



## d3myz

I wanted to mention that I contacted amazon about my MPOW T5's connection issues and creaky buttons. They got me over to MPOW and MPOW replaced them with the M5. Sound quality is the same, but the buttons feel so much better and easier to press. Also, the case hinge is more sturdy and the case doesn't have a tendency to want to fall on it's back when it's open. 3rd and final, the Tips it comes with now are actually much nicer in my ears they are at newer circular flat design, I'm using the larges with my Xm3's and they feel great.


----------



## Kvarkmeister

cwill said:


> I used to think the same way. Then I found out that the codec doesn't really matter at all. I have SBC buds that sound far better than others with APTX.


Thank you! That is quite reassuring.


----------



## tma6 (Dec 4, 2019)

Uhhhh after a few more hours of listening, the Fiil T1X should be getting a lot more attention here. I was able to snag them for $40 w a $10 off coupon on Amazon, though I think that's gone now. Looks like they're $50.

https://www.amazon.com/True-Wireles...jbGlja1JlZGlyZWN0JmRvTm90TG9nQ2xpY2s9dHJ1ZQ==

Probably will post some sort of review in the next few days. They sound fantastic at this price point.


----------



## tma6

d3myz said:


> I just swapped the tips on my FIILs and am using the stock L2P tips and man they sound excellent. Also, remember the FIIL app. there are tons of features, including an EQ. *I think they sound better than the MW07.*



Hahah I wouldn't go that far having now done an a/b comparison between the T1X and MW07, but they definitely sound excellent. MW07 has a refinement and tuning that is unmatched for me in the TWS space. The app is very solid for EQ, though wish you could also change the weird control configuration.


----------



## d3myz

Kvarkmeister said:


> I recently became very intrigued in the Fiil T1X earbuds, however, the AAC/SBC Bluetooth codec kind of put me off, because I use Android and I hear AAC has no significant benefits for Android users and SBC is inconsistent and aged(?) I would have idealised aptX.
> 
> Does anyone have any inputs on this? How is the experience on Android? What are your thoughts about these earbuds in general?


On Ios, Mac Os , Ipad Os, they are fantastic. In my top 5 right now. @mattedialdoc hates the controls just like I did when I first got them, but I think they sound like the Rimor's and the Tevi's are supposed at nearly 1/2 the price point.


----------



## Kvarkmeister

tma6 said:


> Uhhhh after a few more hours of listening, the Fiil T1X should be getting a lot more attention here. I was able to snag them for $40 w a $10 off coupon on Amazon, though I think that's gone now. Looks like they're $50.
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/True-Wireles...jbGlja1JlZGlyZWN0JmRvTm90TG9nQ2xpY2s9dHJ1ZQ==
> 
> Probably will post some sort of review in the next few days. They sound fantastic at this price point.





d3myz said:


> On Ios, Mac Os , Ipad Os, they are fantastic. In my top 5 right now. @mattedialdoc hates the controls just like I did when I first got them, but I think they sound like the Rimor's and the Tevi's are supposed at nearly 1/2 the price point.


Thanks for the helpful addendum! Do you have the list stored somewhere, @d3myz ? I would take a look at it if you don't mind.


----------



## d3myz

tma6 said:


> Hahah I wouldn't go that far having now done an a/b comparison between the T1X and MW07, but they definitely sound excellent. MW07 has a refinement and tuning that is unmatched for me in the TWS space. The app is very solid for EQ, though wish you could also change the weird control configuration.


Are you using the stock MW07 tips? I needs mids in my music and the MW07 is thinner without a doubt.It seems to achieve better seperation by removing the low mids, really weird when I compare the two back and forth, especially with heavy music. Once I removed those awful stock tips they def. got better, but man break those T1x's in. I let them play over night and the sound even more responsive today. I don't think the bass response is as tight as the MW07, but the highs and mids def. sound less empty to me.


----------



## Pete7874

Caipirina said:


> I want to add my praise for the Tronsmart Spunky Beat. They sound pretty fantastic! And the fit is excellent. They do remind me a lot of the Anbes 359 / SSK.


Can anyone who's heard both Spunky Beat and T1X offer up any kind of comparison?

Thanks!


----------



## TK33

While we're discussing the MW07, I finally picked up another paid of the Jet Black MW07 Go from Best Buy yesterday after returning my first pair back in October and I am no longer having the battery or pairing issues with these so far (only day 2 so knock on wood).  I was able to pair pretty effortlessly to two different phones (just to be clear, I am NOT referring to multipoint but my old set had trouble pairing to another phone after disconnecting from my primary phone) and the battery charged fully to 100% unlike my first set.  The clarity/SQ and battery life are fantastic.  They have been running since 9:30 am EST today at 30-50% volume depending on whether they were in my ear or not and the battery is currently at 65% 7 hours later.  I listen to music at lower volumes that most so I have been using them at 30-40% volume on my S9 when actually listening to music and raised the volume a bit when not in my ears hoping some "burn in" will help tame the treble a bit (I know whether or not burn in works is always debated but one can hope).  I also ordered some large Spinfit CP100z tips hoping they may help and also fit in the case.  I use the medium CP100z on my Senn MTW and am currently using the large Spinfit CP360 tips on the MW07 Go but noticed the stock tips are longer than the CP360 and I can't get a seal with the medium CP100z tips because the MW07 Go seems to sit a little further from the ear than the MTWs due to the fins. 

Glad I gave these a second try.


----------



## albau

Kvarkmeister said:


> I recently became very intrigued in the Fiil T1X earbuds, however, the AAC/SBC Bluetooth codec kind of put me off, because I use Android and I hear AAC has no significant benefits for Android users and SBC is inconsistent and aged(?) I would have idealised aptX.


In the end your ears are the final judge, not the codec name. People tend to assign to codec some totemic importance in the sound quality. In fact it's just a small part in a very long and complex psycho-acoustic chain that in sum makes or breaks the sound you perceive. That's why you can have TWS with the most advanced QC chip sporting the best AptX HD implementation while in the end it still produces cringe inducing sounds, all because they skimped on the driver or didn't know how to properly design and tune the chamber. Or, as an opposite example, there's MW07 Plus/Go omitting AAC and still sounding awesome on iPhones, and that just using "lowly" SBC.


----------



## tma6 (Dec 4, 2019)

d3myz said:


> Are you using the stock MW07 tips? I needs mids in my music and the MW07 is thinner without a doubt.It seems to achieve better seperation by removing the low mids, really weird when I compare the two back and forth, especially with heavy music. Once I removed those awful stock tips they def. got better, but man break those T1x's in. I let them play over night and the sound even more responsive today. I don't think the bass response is as tight as the MW07, but the highs and mids def. sound less empty to me.




Actually now that you mention it I generally use foam tips on my original MW07s, and if I switch to silicon I use Final Audio tips. I find the detail in highs on the MW07s to be better so far. I definitely agree with the mids being slightly recessed on the MW07s so I usually use EQ to bring out the mids a bit. With that little EQ help the actual quality of the mids on the MW07s sound beautiful to me. The T1Xs midrange is also surprisingly great though. The tonality is right on point with a natural presentation and great detail and realism in most instruments and vocals. There's also an overall cohesion to the T1Xs sound that is fantastic. And while they're not super wide, there's some height to the sound for good instrument separation, and the imaging is really amazing considering the price. Gonna let them burn in for sure, but even as of right now they're keepers for me.


----------



## Kvarkmeister

albau said:


> In the end your ears are the final judge, not the codec name. People tend to assign to codec some totemic importance in the sound quality. In fact it's just a small part in a very long and complex psycho-acoustic chain that in sum makes or breaks the sound you perceive. That's why you can have TWS with the most advanced QC chip sporting the best AptX HD implementation while in the end it still produces cringe inducing sounds, all because they skimped on the driver or didn't know how to properly design and tune the chamber. Or, as an opposite example, there's MW07 Plus/Go omitting AAC and still sounding awesome on iPhones, and that just using "lowly" SBC.


Well-presented and fair point! I think I will focus less attention on the codec from now on.


----------



## voicemaster (Dec 4, 2019)

Kvarkmeister said:


> I recently became very intrigued in the Fiil T1X earbuds, however, the AAC/SBC Bluetooth codec kind of put me off, because I use Android and I hear AAC has no significant benefits for Android users and SBC is inconsistent and aged(?) I would have idealised aptX.
> 
> Does anyone have any inputs on this? How is the experience on Android? What are your thoughts about these earbuds in general?



The aac on this is good. I am using android too (huawei mate 20x and oneplus 7). I have several tws with AptX codec and some still have delay when playing VLC on my phone (no lag on PC tho). While this T1X has no delay whatsoever from anything that I have tried so far (youtube, vlc, pornhub, etc)


----------



## voicemaster (Dec 4, 2019)

You need to let the driver burn-in first for T1X. At first, the bass might be more prominent, but after like 10 hours or so, it will settle and the bass is not overpowering.
If you guys like BLON bl03 sound signature then you will love T1X imho. They sounds pretty similar while the T1X actually more detailed and clearer on vocal and high. But the con is you can't amped T1X.
Oh and this thing get plenty loud (about same with mpow m5 iirc).


----------



## d3myz

Kvarkmeister said:


> Thanks for the helpful addendum! Do you have the list stored somewhere, @d3myz ? I would take a look at it if you don't mind.



Here are my overall favs right now. Keep in mind that The only TWS' that I EQ are ones that have apps. L2pro, XM3's and the FIIL. 

1. Sony WF-1000xm3
2. Liberty 2 Pro
3. SSK BT-03
3. Anbes 359
3. Earfun Free
4. Fiil T1x
5. Tranya BT530
6. MW07
7. Lystar J29
8. Tranya T3
8. MPOW M5 
9. Chisana C1L
10. 1More Stylish (with some EQing of the highs) could be ranked higher. 
10. Apanage T20

Honorable Mentions QCY T1S, it's been a while since I listened to them and some I didnt' keep. Tevi, Bomaker Sifi, Backbay Duet 50, Kanoe, Tranya T1.


----------



## d3myz

TK33 said:


> While we're discussing the MW07, I finally picked up another paid of the Jet Black MW07 Go from Best Buy yesterday after returning my first pair back in October and I am no longer having the battery or pairing issues with these so far (only day 2 so knock on wood).  I was able to pair pretty effortlessly to two different phones (just to be clear, I am NOT referring to multipoint but my old set had trouble pairing to another phone after disconnecting from my primary phone) and the battery charged fully to 100% unlike my first set.  The clarity/SQ and battery life are fantastic.  They have been running since 9:30 am EST today at 30-50% volume depending on whether they were in my ear or not and the battery is currently at 65% 7 hours later.  I listen to music at lower volumes that most so I have been using them at 30-40% volume on my S9 when actually listening to music and raised the volume a bit when not in my ears hoping some "burn in" will help tame the treble a bit (I know whether or not burn in works is always debated but one can hope).  I also ordered some large Spinfit CP100z tips hoping they may help and also fit in the case.  I use the medium CP100z on my Senn MTW and am currently using the large Spinfit CP360 tips on the MW07 Go but noticed the stock tips are longer than the CP360 and I can't get a seal with the medium CP100z tips because the MW07 Go seems to sit a little further from the ear than the MTWs due to the fins.
> 
> Glad I gave these a second try.


Thanks for the feedback, mine are still pretty new, but i've also noticed some connection issues if I have other TWS' paired to my phone. They don't like to resume playing until I put them back in the case and power them back on. I also noticed that when I take them out the stop, but then start playing again and when I put them back in the won't always play until I push them closer to my ears. maybe it's a sensor thing. I also need some longer tips for mine as I don't like the way the stock ones make the mids sound thin. I too am hoping with some burn in they will sound better. I've only put about 4 hours on them.


----------



## d3myz

tma6 said:


> Actually now that you mention it I generally use foam tips on my original MW07s, and if I switch to silicon I use Final Audio tips. I find the detail in highs on the MW07s to be better so far. I definitely agree with the mids being slightly recessed on the MW07s so I usually use EQ to bring out the mids a bit. With that little EQ help the actual quality of the mids on the MW07s sound beautiful to me. The T1Xs midrange is also surprisingly great though. The tonality is right on point with a natural presentation and great detail and realism in most instruments and vocals. There's also an overall cohesion to the T1Xs sound that is fantastic. And while they're not super wide, there's some height to the sound for good instrument separation, and the imaging is really amazing considering the price. Gonna let them burn in for sure, but even as of right now they're keepers for me.


I really appreciate your feedback on these two TWS'. EQing unfortunately isn't great in spotify and that's all I have available for streaming content on my iphone. You'd think M&D would have an app for these bad boys. I'm really hoping they will shine after some burn in, because there is no doubt that at louder volume the cheaper TWS' like the FIIL's start to become harsh, yet the MW07's never do. Even though its' not my favorite sound signature, it's pretty amazing. Do you have the Tranya B530? I was A/B them and the MW07 today and boy are they similar. I like personally like the Tranya slightly better.


----------



## Kvarkmeister

d3myz said:


> Here are my overall favs right now. Keep in mind that The only TWS' that I EQ are ones that have apps. L2pro, XM3's and the FIIL.
> 
> 1. Sony WF-1000xm3
> 2. Liberty 2 Pro
> ...



Much appreciated!


----------



## d3myz

voicemaster said:


> You need to let the driver burn-in first for T1X. At first, the bass might be more prominent, but after like 10 hours or so, it will settle and the bass is not overpowering.
> If you guys like BLON bl03 sound signature then you will love T1X imho. They sounds pretty similar while the T1X actually more detailed and clearer on vocal and high. But the con is you can't amped T1X.
> Oh and this thing get plenty loud (about same with mpow m5 iirc).


Mine Def. sound better after letting them burn in for the full length of the battery. Going to go for round two tonight.


----------



## tma6

d3myz said:


> I really appreciate your feedback on these two TWS'. EQing unfortunately isn't great in spotify and that's all I have available for streaming content on my iphone. You'd think M&D would have an app for these bad boys. I'm really hoping they will shine after some burn in, because there is no doubt that at louder volume the cheaper TWS' like the FIIL's start to become harsh, yet the MW07's never do. Even though its' not my favorite sound signature, it's pretty amazing. Do you have the Tranya B530? I was A/B them and the MW07 today and boy are they similar. I like personally like the Tranya slightly better.



I actually think the spotify EQ is sufficient for the MW07s. I'd give it a try with some mid boost, lemme know what you think. I don't have the Tranya B530, but I've heard their mids/highs are great though lack some bass depth and punch which I generally like. The TX1s handle everything great. I definitely hear some harshness in the mid-highs, but I actually like cymbals on them a little better than on the L2Ps in terms of timbre. There's a slightly compressed tonality at the top end of the L2Ps that is sometimes noticeable. The L2Ps are beasts though.. remind me to stop comparing budget TWS to them loll.


----------



## zazaboy (Dec 4, 2019)

can anyone give links to ssk bt-03 (cant find link atm work) or anbes 369 (sold out )there was another clone but I dont remember the name of it can anyone mention me I cant search the thread it was mentioned


----------



## d3myz

tma6 said:


> I actually think the spotify EQ is sufficient for the MW07s. I'd give it a try with some mid boost, lemme know what you think. I don't have the Tranya B530, but I've heard their mids/highs are great though lack some bass depth and punch which I generally like. The TX1s handle everything great. I definitely hear some harshness in the mid-highs, but I actually like cymbals on them a little better than on the L2Ps in terms of timbre. There's a slightly compressed tonality at the top end of the L2Ps that is sometimes noticeable. The L2Ps are beasts though.. remind me to stop comparing budget TWS to them loll.


Thanks, I’ll give it a try. Yea, it’s hard not to, but I really love my L2p’s except for the lack of mids. piano is the only decent eq  for me and it’s kills all that bass I love. They are certainly fun. I’m really hoping as many of us are, for a manual or parametric eq. I’ve mentioned this before but there is quite a difference in the sound when I use the spiral dots. It lowers the volume of and tightens up the bass for me.


----------



## d3myz

zazaboy said:


> can anyone give links to ssk bt-03 or anbes 369 there was another clone but I dont remember the name of it can anyone me with that cant search the thread it was mentioned


Kissral Maybe R18? Some other members of the forum mentioned they sound identical to the SSK/Anbes. I personally think the 359 sounds a little different than the SSK. To me the SSK is a little brighter and has less full but a touch more punchy bass. This could also be because my 359’s are broken in and have been used a lot more.


----------



## tma6 (Dec 4, 2019)

d3myz said:


> Thanks, I’ll give it a try. Yea, it’s hard not to, but I really love my L2p’s except for the lack of mids. piano is the only decent eq  for me and it’s kills all that bass I love. They are certainly fun. I’m really hoping as many of us are, for a manual or parametric eq. I’ve mentioned this before but there is quite a difference in the sound when I use the spiral dots. It lowers the volume of and tightens up the bass for me.



Have you given the vocal booster eq a try for the L2Ps? It adds some more midrange without getting rid of the bass. Im also a sucker for mids so I hear you. Would love a full eq on them though for sure.


----------



## zazaboy (Dec 4, 2019)

@d3myz oke thanks man will consider it I was searching for that answer

another thing does anyone know if the special version of earfun is available at amazon.de?

and how is the tuning of the earfun free final version right now? can anyone enlighten me when they bought the earfun free version and are they any good.. I mean tuning safe to buy? @Kvarkmeister


----------



## jant71

Not sure just how good these are. perhaps at the lower price they will end up being soon enough The slide volume thing might be cool... https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=39066
Mono rebrand and also have OEM make stuff for them to their specs. Not sure which this is. Anyone recognize them??


----------



## wksoh

d3myz said:


> I'm pretty sure it's a realtek chip and it's the same one in the anbes.


I am sure u are right my friend!!


----------



## wksoh (Dec 4, 2019)

d3myz said:


> Here are my overall favs right now. Keep in mind that The only TWS' that I EQ are ones that have apps. L2pro, XM3's and the FIIL.
> 
> 1. Sony WF-1000xm3
> 2. Liberty 2 Pro
> ...


One of few reviewers I trust!! An audiophile musician who knows how instruments sound like. Esp drums.  Thank you!!


----------



## wksoh

zazaboy said:


> can anyone give links to ssk bt-03 (cant find link atm work) or anbes 369 (sold out )there was another clone but I dont remember the name of it can anyone mention me I cant search the thread it was mentioned


Sold out in Aliexpress, was still there yesterday...


----------



## TK33

d3myz said:


> Thanks for the feedback, mine are still pretty new, but i've also noticed some connection issues if I have other TWS' paired to my phone. They don't like to resume playing until I put them back in the case and power them back on. I also noticed that when I take them out the stop, but then start playing again and when I put them back in the won't always play until I push them closer to my ears. maybe it's a sensor thing. I also need some longer tips for mine as I don't like the way the stock ones make the mids sound thin. I too am hoping with some burn in they will sound better. I've only put about 4 hours on them.



The new Plus version and the original MW07 have proximity sensors which stop and play the music automatically. Those sensors drive me crazy and was one of the main reasons I got the Go instead (and also don't really need ANC).  Others seem to like the feature.  If they had an option to disable the sensors I probably would have gotten the Plus instead. Some other companies provide an app that, among other things, allows you to disable the sensors (like Sennheiser for example) but M&D does not.


----------



## Spamateur (Dec 4, 2019)

howdy said:


> Accidentally bought the LP2s Sunday and paid full retail of 160. I have not received any email from them regarding shipping or anything. I will send them back as I don't wait to pay full price when you can generally get 40 bucks off.



Just a heads up I bought my L2P late last week and contacted Anker through Amazon yesterday about the sale price. They gave me a refund for the difference without having to send them back. Amazon customer support was useless, but Anker came through big time.


----------



## howdy

Spamateur said:


> Just a heads up I bought my L2P late last week and contacted Anker through Amazon yesterday about the sale price. They gave me a refund for the difference without having to send them back. Amazon customer support was useless, but Anker came through big time.


I emailed them today asking them to refund the difference, we'll see.


----------



## indigo (Dec 4, 2019)

So I just got myself a pair of Aviot TE-BD21f-pnk. I've been intrigued by news of the first hybrid driver true wireless (I dynamic 2 armatures) when I heard of them, and when I saw a friend of mine was in Tokyo, I got her to grab a pair for me. They were out of stock of the original TE-BD21f, but had a limited edition TE-BD21f-pnk, which was apparently "specially tuned" by Pierre Nakano, a drummer with a Japanese rock band (?). From what I understand through Google Translate, these ones are more warm sounding than the originals. Cost 18,900 yen after tax rebate, also more expensive than the originals.

So got the phones on Tuesday. Looks ok, came with an extra case (looks like the Shure 500 case) that you can store the charging case and wire. The charging case is plastic on the side, and a lookalike metal top. Also in the case were normal silicone tips, and also specially designed Spinfit tips in various sizes. There is also a strap that you can hook the earpieces to, like bifocals.

Insertion is straight in, slight twist to get a good seal. I used a pair of medium spinfits.

So, please take this "review' with a pinch of salt, as I'm not an audiophile. From reading Japanese reviews you need a burn in of 36- 40 hours. Out of the box, they reminded me of the old Etymotic 4Ps, very clinical, some bass. About 7 hours in, the bass is more pronounced but still not to the level of my Senn MTW.

I listened to Hotel California as a reference (Remastered, Spotify, aptX). Could hear instruments clearly, especially drums, cymbals etc. Bass was present but not thumping. Highs and mids were very clear. Compared to the Senn MTW (standard silicon tips) which is my normal go-tos, there was a lot more clarity in the separation of instruments. The Senns sound like a concert/ radio whereas these sounded cinical(?), like in a studio. Not saying the Senns are muddied but Aviot's highs and mids a lot more pronounced than the Senns, and bass was less. The Senns had more bass. I'm hoping the bass will get better with more burn in. The Senn was also louder.

There is no app so any equalization will be through your player, so I'm assuming no updates of any kind. Comes with the bluetooth 5 and a listening time of 7 hours, although I have not tested that yet.


----------



## Luchyres

Whooooh!

N6 Pro is soon, and boy does this look like it's my tea. https://nuarl.com/en/n6/

Even the middle navigation bar on their site has me salivating: (also, note the comment about NOT staying on in the case a la MTW) lol 




In fact, I swear Nuarl is on this thread - or reading my mind - look at what they say about button placement:




gah, I'm excited!


----------



## tma6

Luchyres said:


> Whooooh!
> 
> N6 Pro is soon, and boy does this look like it's my tea. https://nuarl.com/en/n6/
> 
> ...



these look dope! Wondering what the difference is btw the n6 and n6 pros besides just the included spinfit tips


----------



## Samplingentropy

Luchyres said:


> Whooooh!
> 
> N6 Pro is soon, and boy does this look like it's my tea. https://nuarl.com/en/n6/
> 
> ...




They looked nice, something to dream of until my budget is back on track..


----------



## d3myz

Luchyres said:


> Whooooh!
> 
> N6 Pro is soon, and boy does this look like it's my tea. https://nuarl.com/en/n6/
> 
> ...


Ok, Those look amazing. do you have the NT01AX? They are only $89 on amazon right now. That's $25 more than i paid for the Sabbat X12 Ultra and I was not a fan, so they are going back. may pick up the NT01AX instead.

OH and Look!! One of the screenshots shows the N6 box. $600 wow.


----------



## chinmie

my Wf-1000xm3 just arrived this morning, and I've been testing it for a while. initial impressions are good (apart from the clingy and pushy google assistant )

sound is full, rounded, and pleasant. i don't hear any glaring negatives. i do however set the bass boost at a lower -1 or - 2, because it's just my preference bass amount. I'd say it's on the same level of SQ as the Galaxy Buds, with the difference that the sony is more relaxed and pleasant, while the G buds is more aggressive on the mid treble section and more exciting in initial listening. 

buttons are a bit fiddly.. this is typical example why i don't like touch controls. i prefer like the galaxy buds that would turn off the sensor when it's not on the ear to eliminate accidental button touches. i also like to use the button with my whole palm instead of just my finger.. i find that it's more accurate. 

size of the case is a bit problematic compared to my other TWS.. and i might be more hesitant to just pocket the earpieces like i usually do with my cheaper TWSs. 

ANC is good with youtube noise samples. tomorrow I'm going to test it on a 5 hour train trip to see how it really perform in real life scenario.
i ended up just setting the ANC on all the time and use the left button for volume controls instead. 

so is it a great product? I'd say yes, though for me personally when factoring price, size, function, sound, etc, i might prefer the Galaxy Buds instead as a better buy.

now does anyone here have compare the ANC of the Wf-1000xm3 to headphones or other ANC IEMs like Bose, etc?


----------



## sica

Nice impressions.  What do you think of the lack of on board volume controls?


----------



## Luchyres

tma6 said:


> these look dope! Wondering what the difference is btw the n6 and n6 pros besides just the included spinfit tips






The two have different drivers/driver revisions. 







Samplingentropy said:


> They looked nice, something to dream of until my budget is back on track..





d3myz said:


> Ok, Those look amazing. do you have the NT01AX? They are only $89 on amazon right now. That's $25 more than i paid for the Sabbat X12 Ultra and I was not a fan, so they are going back. may pick up the NT01AX instead.
> 
> OH and Look!! One of the screenshots shows the N6 box. $600 wow.



Don't worry squad... I think they're supposed to actually be somewhere around $200 - they're going for 19,800 Yen or $182.48 in Japan. It appears that there are some gouging listings on Amazon (for these and the Mavin's) - we just have to wait for Nuarl's official store to be selling them directly on Amazon.


----------



## chinmie

sica said:


> Nice impressions.  What do you think of the lack of on board volume controls?



There is an on board volume controls, but the catch is i have to assign it to either buttons (can be left or right) but i have to give up the ambient toggle function. Because i would pretty much use the ANC on all the time and would just pull the earpiece out for ambient/conversation, i rather loose that and have volume.


----------



## Luchyres

Looking at the Yahoo Japan shopping page - it looks like they'll be released (in Japan, at least) in 9 days.


----------



## d3myz

chinmie said:


> There is an on board volume controls, but the catch is i have to assign it to either buttons (can be left or right) but i have to give up the ambient toggle function. Because i would pretty much use the ANC on all the time and would just pull the earpiece out for ambient/conversation, i rather loose that and have volume.


Yea, The implementation of the controls is pretty silly if you ask me. Why on earth can't you assign one side to volume controls, use 1 tap for up 2 taps for down and hold for ambient mode cycle? I am really impressed with the XM3. it's taken some different tips and some eq'ing but I really love them.


----------



## d3myz (Dec 5, 2019)

Luchyres said:


> The two have different drivers/driver revisions.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



That's good to know. So about the NT01AX...? Do you have them? I'm sure someone on here does or has one of the Previous models. Seems like last time I looked at them they were 2x as much.


----------



## Luchyres

d3myz said:


> That's good to know. So about the NT01AX...? Do you have them? I'm sure someone on here does or has one of the Previous models. Seems like last time I looked at them they were 2x as much.


Ah yes. 

I've posted a couple of times in the thread about them - but they were an early TWS I tried and really just enjoyed for their total package. I don't have hiss, which one other member has complained of. The fit, case size, battery, call quality are all great for me. However, I really enjoy them sound-wise over almost every other pair I've gotten - XM3, L2P, Mavin Air-X, MTW, _even though I agree with another member's assessment that their bass relies a bit on resonance in the TWS body vs a large driver (only 6mm). 

That being said - it's a non-fatiguing, EQ-able sound that I love and keep coming back to. 

I know it may be a little atypical for this thread - but my goal is to have only 2 TWS - one for my laptop/work. One for my phone primarily/on the go/working out. Right now I use the ES100 with SONY MDR-EX800ST for work - and the Nuarl have been my king of the hill TWS for the a _long_ time. I bought them at $160. I encourage you to get them if you're curious - but I'm also excited by the new ones, new controls, new case, usb-c, and if they keep what I love about the NT01AX but improve the sound/bass even more - whoo boy, I'll be a happy camper. 

Apparently in Japan they even offer a trade-in program. I may message them when I see them listed on Amazon to see if I can do it in the USA too somehow  or get a coupon. If you get them, let me know what you think!


----------



## d3myz (Dec 5, 2019)

Luchyres said:


> Ah yes.
> 
> I've posted a couple of times in the thread about them - but they were an early TWS I tried and really just enjoyed for their total package. I don't have hiss, which one other member has complained of. The fit, case size, battery, call quality are all great for me. However, I really enjoy them sound-wise over almost every other pair I've gotten - XM3, L2P, Mavin Air-X, MTW, _even though I agree with another member's assessment that their bass relies a bit on resonance in the TWS body vs a large driver (only 6mm).
> 
> ...


Awesome. Thanks for the feedback. I’ve also noticed they have the NT01A for $108 on amazon. Do you know what improvements were made?

Edit: scratch that. I found it.


----------



## XGUGU

d3myz said:


> Well-presented and fair point! I think I will focus less attention on the codec from now on.


Unless you care about latency which all seem to forget. specially on games


----------



## XGUGU (Dec 5, 2019)

@jant71 Did you also see those    https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=38542


----------



## Spamateur (Dec 5, 2019)

Luchyres said:


> Ah yes.
> 
> I've posted a couple of times in the thread about them - but they were an early TWS I tried and really just enjoyed for their total package. I don't have hiss, which one other member has complained of. The fit, case size, battery, call quality are all great for me. However, I really enjoy them sound-wise over almost every other pair I've gotten - XM3, L2P, Mavin Air-X, MTW, _even though I agree with another member's assessment that their bass relies a bit on resonance in the TWS body vs a large driver (only 6mm).
> 
> ...



I loved the sound of the Nuarl NT01AX (my favorite TWS sound by far) but I have to say that they were quirky to a fault. The earpiece fins being on top of the housing were completely useless, and I'm disappointed to see that Nuarl is using that design again. Since gravity, y'know, pulls things DOWN, the fins did nothing to stabilize the earpieces being on top of the earpiece housings. It's the stupidest placement and the fins just ended getting in the way when putting the earpieces back in the case.

I also found the fit to be hard to get without major suction/air pressure differential in my ears. This is probably just my weird ear physiology though.

Unfortunately the build quality of mine were suspect as well. The case was really cheap plastic and the battery would drain itself down in a couple days without me even taking the earpieces out. In comparison the Mavin Air-X I can literally leave for weeks at a time and it will be at whatever charge level I last left it at.

The final dealbreaker for me was the random disconnects despite my phone sitting motionless on my desk in front of me at work. They weren't constant, but occurred often enough to ruin the experience, and I ended up returning them.

With that said, they sounded so pleasing and smooth that I'm going to buy the N6 Pro whenever they're released in the hopes that they've improved the design compared to the previous model. Heck, I'm tempted to buy the AX again at that discounted price.


----------



## webvan

chinmie said:


> my Wf-1000xm3 just arrived this morning, and I've been testing it for a while. initial impressions are good (apart from the clingy and pushy google assistant )
> 
> sound is full, rounded, and pleasant. i don't hear any glaring negatives. i do however set the bass boost at a lower -1 or - 2, because it's just my preference bass amount. I'd say it's on the same level of SQ as the Galaxy Buds, with the difference that the sony is more relaxed and pleasant, while the G buds is more aggressive on the mid treble section and more exciting in initial listening.
> 
> ...



Yes I've done that comparison and the WF are noticeably behind the Bose QC-25, the problem is they don't have very good passive isolation (probably due to their weird design) and ANC only works well for lower frequencies not for the higher frequencies that have to be dealt with by passive isolation. Same problem with the APPs (and the Liberty Track Air+ or the QC20) in fact. Sure the ANC is "impressive" when it's turned on but that's because their passive isolation is not great. Contrast with the Amazon Echo Buds that have great passive isolation (the concha is completely blocked), turning on ANR isn't super impressive but with both combined it's the best isolation on the market for TWEs (see rtings measurements and you can listen to their samples too), very close to the QC-25.


----------



## chinmie

webvan said:


> Yes I've done that comparison and the WF are noticeably behind the Bose QC-25, the problem is they don't have very good passive isolation (probably due to their weird design) and ANC only works well for lower frequencies not for the higher frequencies that have to be dealt with by passive isolation. Same problem with the APPs (and the Liberty Track Air+ or the QC20) in fact. Sure the ANC is "impressive" when it's turned on but that's because their passive isolation is not great. Contrast with the Amazon Echo Buds that have great passive isolation (the concha is completely blocked), turning on ANR isn't super impressive but with both combined it's the best isolation on the market for TWEs (see rtings measurements and you can listen to their samples too), very close to the QC-25.



i made speculation in my mind that the ultimate noise blocking solution would using an IEM and put an ANC headphone above it 

the passive noise blocking of this Sony is indeed a bit less than the others. I'll try tip rolling later to find the best noise reduction, though this one is good enough to remove rumble and letting people voice to come through, so i can still hear them talking a bit (can be a plus or a minus)


----------



## RobinFood

d3myz said:


> That's good to know. So about the NT01AX...? Do you have them? I'm sure someone on here does or has one of the Previous models. Seems like last time I looked at them they were 2x as much.



They are the best true wireless earbuds sounds wise for me. Perfect in every way. Maybe the bids could be a little clearer, as they are not quite as clear as super clean wired buds like the ER4s, but the bass has great bite, the highs sparkle, the imaging is sharp, and the fit is great. With the spin fits the fit is amazing, but if you go too fast you can get air pushed/trapped in your ear and it is a little painful.

I did put some black vinyl tape over the LEDs though, blinking in stand by was annoying.
I do get the hiss on mine unfortunately, but after the last firmware upgrade it is better. I've had it on three different models I tried, and the first one was the noisiest but firmware upgrades clean it up little by little every time.

The role swap thing is annoying too. To get more play time on the buds the master changes from left to right depending on which bud has more charge at the time. It's a neat idea but now the volume setting on each bud is different, so volume when the left one connects I have to set my phone to volume 4, but when the right one connects, I have to set it to volume 10, and adjusting on the bud itself is like three clicks on the right bud for one tick.

I will try the N6 pro in stores when it comes out, and if I like it as much or more I will use their upgrade service to send my NT01AX in for a nice 10, 000 yen rebate on the the N6 pro. If the sound is the same but the hiss is all gone, and the case is as slim as it looks in those pictures, I will be very happy.


----------



## Bartig

I'm currently writing my Lypertek Tevi review. I've spent so many hours with it, I don't want to be too locked-up in my own judgment. What do you think of it, compared to your other (favorite) wireless earphones?


----------



## georgelai57

Is this the longest thread on head-fi.org?


----------



## WesennTony

indigo said:


> So I just got myself a pair of Aviot TE-BD21f-pnk. I've been intrigued by news of the first hybrid driver true wireless (I dynamic 2 armatures) when I heard of them, and when I saw a friend of mine was in Tokyo, I got her to grab a pair for me. They were out of stock of the original TE-BD21f, but had a limited edition TE-BD21f-pnk, which was apparently "specially tuned" by Pierre Nakano, a drummer with a Japanese rock band (?). From what I understand through Google Translate, these ones are more warm sounding than the originals. Cost 18,900 yen after tax rebate, also more expensive than the originals.
> 
> So got the phones on Tuesday. Looks ok, came with an extra case (looks like the Shure 500 case) that you can store the charging case and wire. The charging case is plastic on the side, and a lookalike metal top. Also in the case were normal silicone tips, and also specially designed Spinfit tips in various sizes. There is also a strap that you can hook the earpieces to, like bifocals.
> 
> ...



Could you tell me if your TE-BD21f-pnk have any noticeable hiss? I got the regular TE-BD21f two days ago, still in burn-in stage. I love the overall package but the hiss kills me. Slightly less than L2P 2nd version, but still quite noticeable. If I paid their regular price in Japan (~$150), I won't mind, but I paid $260 here in USA from 3rd party on Amazon, so it's a little bit hard to swallow. Other than that, I would say they're upgrade, non-fatigue version of L2P with less bass,  clearer mids, sparkly yet non piercing highs. The bass impact is still there with good texture and decay from the 9mm DD, just not so profound as L2P.  Most importantly, the tonality/timbre is accurate to my ears, which is not the case in L2P.  Comparing with Aviot te-d01b and Nuarl nt01ax, they sound sightly warmer and thicker, closer to NW07. Their shape is Frankenstein in ears, but very light (about 5g) and extremely comfortable and great isolation. A funny thing is that their nozzles are oval shape, and the stock tips are oval as well both in stem and outer, a first in my IEM collections. Their sound sig is tuned toward main stream music, which surprised me as I excepted they go up along te-d01b. Without the hiss, they're a keeper, though not so wowed as by te-d01b. Now with the hiss, I may still keep them in rotation, considering the difficulty in returning them. The seller delivered them in 2 days from Japan, and responded well with my concerns, sending me an English manual. I'll see if I can stand the hiss later on.


----------



## WesennTony

RobinFood said:


> They are the best true wireless earbuds sounds wise for me. Perfect in every way. Maybe the bids could be a little clearer, as they are not quite as clear as super clean wired buds like the ER4s, but the bass has great bite, the highs sparkle, the imaging is sharp, and the fit is great. With the spin fits the fit is amazing, but if you go too fast you can get air pushed/trapped in your ear and it is a little painful.
> 
> I did put some black vinyl tape over the LEDs though, blinking in stand by was annoying.
> I do get the hiss on mine unfortunately, but after the last firmware upgrade it is better. I've had it on three different models I tried, and the first one was the noisiest but firmware upgrades clean it up little by little every time.
> ...



Have you tried spiral dot++ tips on nt01ax? These are not regular spiral dots, but the new version. They really help clearing the mids for my nt01ax. Yes nt01ax has been my favorite for quite some time, until recently replaced by Avoit te-d01b.


----------



## BigZ12

Bartig said:


> I'm currently writing my Lypertek Tevi review. I've spent so many hours with it, I don't want to be too locked-up in my own judgment. What do you think of it, compared to your other (favorite) wireless earphones?


You should wait until the app is released. It's imminent. Got this message two days ago: "Sorry for the confusion. We will release the detail instruction this week. "
The app is ready for download in the Apple app store, and already got 2 or 3 updates. No sign of any app on Google Play.
https://apps.apple.com/sg/app/lypertek/id1486702910


----------



## Bartig

BigZ12 said:


> You should wait until the app is released. It's imminent. Got this message two days ago: "Sorry for the confusion. We will release the detail instruction this week. "
> The app is ready for download in the Apple app store, and already got 2 or 3 updates. No sign of any app on Google Play.
> https://apps.apple.com/sg/app/lypertek/id1486702910


I could wait, but the iPhone app doesn't work at all...


----------



## BigZ12

Bartig said:


> I could wait, but the iPhone app doesn't work at all...


No, that's what they are fixing and releasing the instructions for this week (I hope)


----------



## d3myz

XGUGU said:


> @jant71 Did you also see those    https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=38542


Looks very similar to the Tranya T1 form factor.


----------



## AtariPrime

Urbanista Athens




 

Ordered these a few weeks back.  They should be here later this week.  Will put up a review as soon as I can.  I'm hopeful they meet the criteria I have been looking for.

Overview of what they are.

- Battery:  8 hrs.
- Case:  32 hrs.
- IP67 Rating
- Bass Oriented
- Smaller than most other models on market
- USB C
- Bluetooth 5.0
- About $90 if on sale
- Swedish company

Below is the only real review that I know of so far.

https://www.stuff.tv/urbanista/athens/review


----------



## hifi80sman

AtariPrime said:


> Urbanista Athens
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Those look interesting...


----------



## Ynot1

albau said:


> In the end your ears are the final judge, not the codec name. People tend to assign to codec some totemic importance in the sound quality. In fact it's just a small part in a very long and complex psycho-acoustic chain that in sum makes or breaks the sound you perceive. That's why you can have TWS with the most advanced QC chip sporting the best AptX HD implementation while in the end it still produces cringe inducing sounds, all because they skimped on the driver or didn't know how to properly design and tune the chamber. Or, as an opposite example, there's MW07 Plus/Go omitting AAC and still sounding awesome on iPhones, and that just using "lowly" SBC.



I was just searching for APTX HD because I discovered how much better aptx HD was over aptx, AAC, and the standard SBC. I used MPOW BH259A with MH755 on receiver end, and I used a cheap amazon variety optical SPDIF to APTX HD transmit (from Mac headphone jack). The sound detail was impressive. And I did not lose range to get the detail. But I have no way to compare to other bt receivers because I don't have any other APTX HD receiver than MPOW. I recommend APTX HD and hopefully more devices will support this.


----------



## Quicky32

My L2P are boxed up and ready to send back to Anker.  I just could not get a good fit and it has made me question TWS because they were my 1st set.


----------



## d3myz

webvan said:


> Yes I've done that comparison and the WF are noticeably behind the Bose QC-25, the problem is they don't have very good passive isolation (probably due to their weird design) and ANC only works well for lower frequencies not for the higher frequencies that have to be dealt with by passive isolation. Same problem with the APPs (and the Liberty Track Air+ or the QC20) in fact. Sure the ANC is "impressive" when it's turned on but that's because their passive isolation is not great. Contrast with the Amazon Echo Buds that have great passive isolation (the concha is completely blocked), turning on ANR isn't super impressive but with both combined it's the best isolation on the market for TWEs (see rtings measurements and you can listen to their samples too), very close to the QC-25.


I think a more accurate comparison would be the WH-1000xm3 to the QC-25,35 etc. Over the Ear to Over the Ear or Even comparing the WF-1000xm3 to the Bose QC-20. which is not a TWS'. Is still comparing an apple to an orange.


----------



## webvan

chinmie said:


> i made speculation in my mind that the ultimate noise blocking solution would using an IEM and put an ANC headphone above it
> 
> the passive noise blocking of this Sony is indeed a bit less than the others. I'll try tip rolling later to find the best noise reduction, though this one is good enough to remove rumble and letting people voice to come through, so i can still hear them talking a bit (can be a plus or a minus)



I'd tried some Comply tips T-200 Isolation and Music tips and while they sealed my ear canal perfectly they didn't really help with isolation. It's probably due to the shape of the earbuds, like the L2Ps they don't fill the concha so isolation  isn't as good as those that do (65t, Echo Buds). The Comply tips were not a good idea anyway as they degraded the SQ.


d3myz said:


> I think a more accurate comparison would be the WH-1000xm3 to the QC-25,35 etc. Over the Ear to Over the Ear or Even comparing the WF-1000xm3 to the Bose QC-20. which is not a TWS'. Is still comparing an apple to an orange.


Looks like you missed our friend's question : "now does anyone here have compare the ANC of the Wf-1000xm3 to headphones or other ANC IEMs like Bose, etc?"


----------



## d3myz

Bartig said:


> I could wait, but the iPhone app doesn't work at all...


Oh Lypertek, Over promising and under delivering. Every time I think about trying them again to compare to my other recent purchases they have been out of stock on amazon.us. Maybe there is a manufacturing problem?


----------



## d3myz

webvan said:


> I'd tried some Comply tips T-200 Isolation and Music tips and while they sealed my ear canal perfectly they didn't really help with isolation. It's probably due to the shape of the earbuds, like the L2Ps they don't fill the concha so isolation  isn't as good as those that do (65t, Echo Buds). The Comply tips were not a good idea anyway as they degraded the SQ.
> 
> Looks like you missed our friend's question : "now does anyone here have compare the ANC of the Wf-1000xm3 to headphones or other ANC IEMs like Bose, etc?"


It appears so. 


Bartig said:


> I'm currently writing my Lypertek Tevi review. I've spent so many hours with it, I don't want to be too locked-up in my own judgment. What do you think of it, compared to your other (favorite) wireless earphones?


nice Highs, good mids, not near enough bass and about $40 overpriced. I feel like nearly cloning the T5/M5 form factor if anything should of reduced their costs. If the app worked, and I could EQ them i'd pay $50 for them.


----------



## Pete7874

georgelai57 said:


> Is this the longest thread on head-fi.org?


Not even close.  We have some threads on here with more than 10,000 pages.


----------



## ukbiker

I received my new ssk bt03 today and have to say they are fantastic!  Prefer the sound to the MPOW T5s. Thanks to all of you in the thread who shared your experiences.

Unfortunately the left hand ear bud doesn't hold charge for more than 25 minutes.  Then a voice continuously comes on and says 'please charging'. So I guess this is defective and I need to send it back.

Unless any of you have experienced this and know of a way to 'fix' it?

Thanks in advance.


----------



## Bartig (Dec 5, 2019)

d3myz said:


> It appears so.
> 
> nice Highs, good mids, not near enough bass and about $40 overpriced. I feel like nearly cloning the T5/M5 form factor if anything should of reduced their costs. If the app worked, and I could EQ them i'd pay $50 for them.


Thanks for your input. I’ve never been so torn as to what to rate the sound. They do have the best treble under 100 dollars - crisp, clean, airy - but when more complex songs demand both highs and lows, the bass and lower-mids fade away next to the abundance of clarity. I’m more of a basshead myself - I just need to know if these are heaven for treble lovers - or lacking in fullness for them as well. 

Maybe I should just stick closer to myself. Can I enjoy these truly without longing for another pair —> no.


----------



## Bartig

ukbiker said:


> I received my new ssk bt03 today and have to say they are fantastic!  Prefer the sound to the MPOW T5s. Thanks to all of you in the thread who shared your experiences.
> 
> Unfortunately the left hand ear bud doesn't hold charge for more than 25 minutes.  Then a voice continuously comes on and says 'please charging'. So I guess this is defective and I need to send it back.
> 
> ...


Some TWS need to be charged fully before using them. I remember I had the same thing with them.


----------



## ukbiker

Bartig said:


> Some TWS need to be charged fully before using them. I remember I had the same thing with them.



Thanks, yes I charged them 4 times fully as well as overnight.  But I'll try again, you never know


----------



## cwill

ukbiker said:


> I received my new ssk bt03 today and have to say they are fantastic!  Prefer the sound to the MPOW T5s. Thanks to all of you in the thread who shared your experiences.
> 
> Unfortunately the left hand ear bud doesn't hold charge for more than 25 minutes.  Then a voice continuously comes on and says 'please charging'. So I guess this is defective and I need to send it back.
> 
> ...


Wait...where are these available? I've been looking for a 2nd pair.


----------



## Bartig

ukbiker said:


> Thanks, yes I charged them 4 times fully as well as overnight.  But I'll try again, you never know


Darn. Better contact the seller...


----------



## ukbiker

cwill said:


> Wait...where are these available? I've been looking for a 2nd pair.



I ordered them from amazon.es. Expensive though


----------



## Luchyres

Quicky32 said:


> My L2P are boxed up and ready to send back to Anker.  I just could not get a good fit and it has made me question TWS because they were my 1st set.


Get the Nuarl's NT01AX or the updated version while they're cheap on Amazon ahead of the N6 Pro launch..... is what I'd suggest - before you lose your faith in TWS.


----------



## d3myz

Thanks for all the feedback about the Nurl NT01AX. I do remember now seeing some post from a while ago about the hiss and it's good to know about some of the form factor issues. I ended up ordering the NT01A. I'm hoping with it's recent release they have addressed the hissing issue by switching to the QCC2020. I also like that it comes with spin fits, USB-C and a pouch for $19 more. I picked it up on amazon for $108. Impressions to come.


----------



## cwill

ukbiker said:


> I ordered them from amazon.es. Expensive though


I see, thanks. I really wish they'd restock these everywhere, and add a black version.


----------



## ukbiker

cwill said:


> I see, thanks. I really wish they'd restock these everywhere, and add a black version.



These look similar but I'm not sure if they are the same...might have been covered already in this forum somewhere.  I'm thinking maybe worth a try.


----------



## ukbiker

ukbiker said:


> These look similar but I'm not sure if they are the same...might have been covered already in this forum somewhere.  I'm thinking maybe worth a try.



Oops, looks like they're not the same according to this post unfortunately : 
#15271 of 16776


----------



## clerkpalmer

Anyone with the Sony WF's have a good custom EQ setting they can share.  The presets all seem off to me.  Bright gets closest but is a little shouty.


----------



## Spamateur

Quicky32 said:


> My L2P are boxed up and ready to send back to Anker.  I just could not get a good fit and it has made me question TWS because they were my 1st set.



I've found the fit is highly variable between different models, so I wouldn't worry about it. Some were horrific with fit but more often than not I had no issues or only minor issues that could be solved with different tips from among the selection provided by the manufacturer in the box. It also seems like the L2P is probably the most controversial in terms of fit (which again, I find surprising how easily they fit my weird ears) so don't let that color your experience.


----------



## Spamateur

WesennTony said:


> Could you tell me if your TE-BD21f-pnk have any noticeable hiss? I got the regular TE-BD21f two days ago, still in burn-in stage. I love the overall package but the hiss kills me. Slightly less than L2P 2nd version, but still quite noticeable. If I paid their regular price in Japan (~$150), I won't mind, but I paid $260 here in USA from 3rd party on Amazon, so it's a little bit hard to swallow. Other than that, I would say they're upgrade, non-fatigue version of L2P with less bass,  clearer mids, sparkly yet non piercing highs. The bass impact is still there with good texture and decay from the 9mm DD, just not so profound as L2P.  Most importantly, the tonality/timbre is accurate to my ears, which is not the case in L2P.  Comparing with Aviot te-d01b and Nuarl nt01ax, they sound sightly warmer and thicker, closer to NW07. Their shape is Frankenstein in ears, but very light (about 5g) and extremely comfortable and great isolation. A funny thing is that their nozzles are oval shape, and the stock tips are oval as well both in stem and outer, a first in my IEM collections. Their sound sig is tuned toward main stream music, which surprised me as I excepted they go up along te-d01b. Without the hiss, they're a keeper, though not so wowed as by te-d01b. Now with the hiss, I may still keep them in rotation, considering the difficulty in returning them. The seller delivered them in 2 days from Japan, and responded well with my concerns, sending me an English manual. I'll see if I can stand the hiss later on.



Any chance you could compare the Nuarl and L2P with the Aviot te-d01b? I've always been curious about these seeing some of the rave reviews out of Japan.


----------



## Grayson73

You guys can get the SSK here but it's more expensive than what Amazon and Aliexpress were selling for:

$43:
https://www.chinavasion.com/china/w...proof-Earbuds-with-Mic-for-Music-Movie-Games/

$57:
https://www.joom.com/en/products/5d5ce53c36b54d0101c2a47f

$59:
https://www.lightinthebox.com/en/p/...-with-mic-for-music-movie-games_p7627912.html

France:
https://www.cdiscount.com/high-tech...oth-sport-cas/f-1065420-ssk6954758433938.html

AED:
https://www.amazon.ae/gp/offer-listing/B07XT9BNS7/


----------



## d3myz

Bartig said:


> Thanks for your input. I’ve never been so torn as to what to rate the sound. They do have the best treble under 100 dollars - crisp, clean, airy - but when more complex songs demand both highs and lows, the bass and lower-mids fade away next to the abundance of clarity. I’m more of a basshead myself - I just need to know if these are heaven for treble lovers - or lacking in fullness for them as well.
> 
> Maybe I should just stick closer to myself. Can I enjoy these truly without longing for another pair —> no.


100% agree. I was pretty upset when I got them because I wanted to love them, but I couldn't turn them up past 60% without killing my eardrums due to lack of low end. I even exchanged them for another pair just to make sure I didn't get a dud. My personal opinion is just keep reviewing them based on your impressions, You're reviews are fantastic and your experience with so many TWS' is invaluable to this community. I for one have made many of my purchases based off your reviews especially when I was just getting started. 

On that note, I just Tested to the Dveda touch two C5. If you hate treble and clarity and love bass. it's a 9/10. LOL.


----------



## tma6

Bartig said:


> I'm currently writing my Lypertek Tevi review. I've spent so many hours with it, I don't want to be too locked-up in my own judgment. What do you think of it, compared to your other (favorite) wireless earphones?



I'm a huge fan of the Tevis for most anything that does not require a thumping bass (jazz, classical, acoustic, and even some rock etc.). The treble clarity and timbre is the best on any true wireless still imo. I do think that because of the lack of bass they lack versatility, and I myself usually need great bass in my TWS/headphones for daily listening. However, I do pull out my Tevis still particularly when I'm in the mood for some jazz. Maybe when (or if) they get the app to work it'll be possible to bring out the bass a bit more. I always felt that despite the lack of bass, it was very clean and therefore could perhaps do well with some EQ.


----------



## d3myz

I 


ukbiker said:


> These look similar but I'm not sure if they are the same...might have been covered already in this forum somewhere.  I'm thinking maybe worth a try.


wonder if that's another version of the Kanoe. Those had so much bass it was crazy.


----------



## _mouse_

Some thought aboute the new fiio utws1? A bad idea to use with a pair of fh5 in daily use?


----------



## AtariPrime

Pete7874 said:


> Not even close.  We have some threads on here with more than 10,000 pages.



It's kinda strange, this thread is really the tws forum.  Basically this is where to post reviews, comments, and questions about essentially any tws earbud on the market.


----------



## clerkpalmer

Whelp, it took less than 48 hours but I lost my APP buds.  Left them at the gym.  I have the case.  Went back and the buds are gone.  Thing is - who would even want them?  If they go online, they are registered to me so they are useless.


----------



## d3myz

tma6 said:


> I'm a huge fan of the Tevis for most anything that does not require a thumping bass (jazz, classical, acoustic, and even some rock etc.). The treble clarity and timbre is the best on any true wireless still imo. I do think that because of the lack of bass they lack versatility, and I myself usually need great bass in my TWS/headphones for daily listening. However, I do pull out my Tevis still particularly when I'm in the mood for some jazz. Maybe when (or if) they get the app to work it'll be possible to bring out the bass a bit more. I always felt that despite the lack of bass, it was very clean and therefore could perhaps do well with some EQ.



I like what your saying about the Tevi's, I also feel like they are definitely a purpose built TWS'. I'd be very interested in your impression of the FIIL T1x. I had hoped to do a comparison on both and the bomaker, but the Tevi's are no longer available on amazon and spending $90 on a one trick TWS, just isn't something i'm interested in. Especially after just picking up the Nuarl NT01A for $108.


----------



## d3myz

clerkpalmer said:


> Whelp, it took less than 48 hours but I lost my APP buds.  Left them at the gym.  I have the case.  Went back and the buds are gone.  Thing is - who would even want them?  If they go online, they are registered to me so they are useless.


Damnit, man! I'm really sad to hear this. I left my last pair of T5's with my spinfits on them at a Tool concert, so I feel your pain, but $200 less of it. do the Airpods Pro have tracking built in to them?


----------



## d3myz

Spamateur said:


> Any chance you could compare the Nuarl and L2P with the Aviot te-d01b? I've always been curious about these seeing some of the rave reviews out of Japan.


I'll have the NT01A next week and I also have the L2p's i'll def. compare them.


----------



## WesennTony

Spamateur said:


> Any chance you could compare the Nuarl and L2P with the Aviot te-d01b? I've always been curious about these seeing some of the rave reviews out of Japan.


I gave a comparison with Nuarl a while back : https://www.head-fi.org/threads/goi...e-we-there-yet.861024/page-1045#post-15312105 
As for L2P, they're bassy but I'm not into their tonality. The highs are artificial to me as well. Their aggressive sound is easier to get fatigue comparing to my other TWS.

For my music taste (vocals, classicals, pops, slow rock), Aviot te-d01b are my favorite, followed by Nuarl. Nuarl have slightly cloudy mids, which can be cleared by spiral dots++, while te-d01b work best for me with regular spiral dots. For fast-tempo and busy genres, the Avoit te-bd21f are starting to grow on me, if I can neglect the hiss.


----------



## Spamateur

d3myz said:


> I'll have the NT01A next week and I also have the L2p's i'll def. compare them.



Thanks! I've actually heard the Nuarls and the L2Ps but more interested in the Aviot models as we rarely see them mentioned on this thread.

...and damn you for your enabling ways. I have the NT01A sitting in my cart. I miss the sound of the AX even with all the weird quirks that annoyed me about them. If the bluetooth connection reliability has been improved, I think i could deal with the other quirks.  

What's weird is I didn't even realize this was a new model since the naming convention of A vs AX makes the A seem like an "older" model.


----------



## Spamateur (Dec 5, 2019)

WesennTony said:


> I gave a comparison with Nuarl a while back : https://www.head-fi.org/threads/goi...e-we-there-yet.861024/page-1045#post-15312105
> As for L2P, they're bassy but I'm not into their tonality. The highs are artificial to me as well. Their aggressive sound is easier to get fatigue comparing to my other TWS.
> 
> For my music taste (vocals, classicals, pops, slow rock), Aviot te-d01b are my favorite, followed by Nuarl. Nuarl have slightly cloudy mids, which can be cleared by spiral dots++, while te-d01b work best for me with regular spiral dots. For fast-tempo and busy genres, the Avoit te-bd21f are starting to grow on me, if I can neglect the hiss.



Thanks, this is really helpful.

Is there more hiss with the bd21f versus the d01b?

EDIT: nevermind, went back and read where you said the d01b was the quietest noise floor you heard with TWS.


----------



## tma6 (Dec 5, 2019)

d3myz said:


> I like what your saying about the Tevi's, I also feel like they are definitely a purpose built TWS'. I'd be very interested in your impression of the FIIL T1x. I had hoped to do a comparison on both and the bomaker, but the Tevi's are no longer available on amazon and spending $90 on a one trick TWS, just isn't something i'm interested in. Especially after just picking up the Nuarl NT01A for $108.



I've been crazy busy this week, but can definitely compare the T1Xs to the Tevis very soon. From memory, the T1Xs bass is actually quite impressive with decidedly more impact than the Tevis. The Tevis can actually go quite low, but drop off significantly at a point, whereas the T1Xs don't drop off to nearly the same degree. I do like the comparison though, the T1Xs mids and treble are great and should be comparable to the Tevis, but I'll check. Strangely, I'm having some comfort issues with the T1Xs, as I feel like the stems are going a little too far into my ears. Are you having this issue?

Def interested in your take on the Nuarls. Don't think you need to spend $90 on the Tevis at this point lolll


----------



## clerkpalmer

d3myz said:


> Damnit, man! I'm really sad to hear this. I left my last pair of T5's with my spinfits on them at a Tool concert, so I feel your pain, but $200 less of it. do the Airpods Pro have tracking built in to them?


Thanks.  Impressively, they do track via findmyphone on IOS but they have to be online.  Not entirely sure how that works but if someone finds them and tries to use them, they will be and be reported to me.  Hoping they turn up - Apple's replacement cost is $89 per bud.  I only paid $225 for them.


----------



## jant71 (Dec 5, 2019)

XGUGU said:


> @jant71 Did you also see those    https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=38542



Yep, nearly the same as the Duet 50 but more pricey. Just curious about identifying the other model. Only ones on my radar really are the Edifier TWS NB and then Nuarl N6 Pro and nothing else unless some darkhorse appears. Perhaps a new one with onboard storage and ambient.

That being said I hope TWS get smarter at CES for next year. We have smart phones but dumb earphones. There is a $14 pair of wireless earphones that records your steps and says it back to you no app needed etc. Hope we get smarter models that have on board EQ and sports activity counting and can store files so you don't even need a phone or player if you choose like for sports or shoveling snow/snowblowing. Who needs a phone when you are bundled up out shoveling in a storm or raking the leaves?


----------



## Rob E. (Dec 5, 2019)

XGUGU said:


> @jant71 Did you also see those    https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=38542





d3myz said:


> Looks very similar to the Tranya T1 form factor.



It's the Enacfire E18 Pro.


----------



## XGUGU (Dec 5, 2019)

If you originally meant TWS, then this might be the biggest in the whole Headfi  and maybe the whole internet.  But there are bigger threads on thus page about chifi and Asian brands that eat this for breakfast @AtariPrime


----------



## LordToneeus

Received my Fiil T1X's a couple hours ago.  I like them.  I wish I had purchased them before my L2Pro's, because those are just on another level of sound.  Still, these really are great.  As long as they stay in during runs (and they feel like they should), I think these will serve nicely as my training earbuds.  They certainly pass the "The Amen Corner", "Silent Waters", and "Flying Whales" tests.


----------



## d3myz

Spamateur said:


> Thanks! I've actually heard the Nuarls and the L2Ps but more interested in the Aviot models as we rarely see them mentioned on this thread.
> 
> ...and damn you for your enabling ways. I have the NT01A sitting in my cart. I miss the sound of the AX even with all the weird quirks that annoyed me about them. If the bluetooth connection reliability has been improved, I think i could deal with the other quirks.
> 
> What's weird is I didn't even realize this was a new model since the naming convention of A vs AX makes the A seem like an "older" model.


HAHA, that's what we do. yea, the nomenclature seems totally backwards for the Nuarls. I had them in my cart right before bed and was like. Screw It, i'm going for it. I'm really excited about them.


----------



## hifi80sman

clerkpalmer said:


> Anyone with the Sony WF's have a good custom EQ setting they can share.  The presets all seem off to me.  Bright gets closest but is a little shouty.


Do you like bright signatures?  If so, I won't even bother sharing my blasphemous settings.


----------



## hifi80sman

clerkpalmer said:


> Thanks.  Impressively, they do track via findmyphone on IOS but they have to be online.  Not entirely sure how that works but if someone finds them and tries to use them, they will be and be reported to me.  Hoping they turn up - Apple's replacement cost is $89 per bud.  I only paid $225 for them.


You can always check to see if they turn up in the Lost & Found.  Other than that, probably some dope that picked them up and thinks they may be able to do something with them.  Seems like a tough task to get a new case for the buds, since they are all linked via SN.

https://support.apple.com/airpods/repair/service

On another note, what did you think of them the 2nd time around?


----------



## hifi80sman

d3myz said:


> HAHA, that's what we do. yea, the nomenclature seems totally backwards for the Nuarls. I had them in my cart right before bed and was like. Screw It, i'm going for it. I'm really excited about them.


The Nuarl AA00A?  Newest version, obviously.  The Nuarl ZZ99Z Revision 9.9, Version 9.9?  Oh, that's the first one released.


----------



## clerkpalmer

hifi80sman said:


> You can always check to see if they turn up in the Lost & Found.  Other than that, probably some dope that picked them up and thinks they may be able to do something with them.  Seems like a tough task to get a new case for the buds, since they are all linked via SN.
> 
> https://support.apple.com/airpods/repair/service
> 
> On another note, what did you think of them the 2nd time around?



I've warmed up to the sound.  I used them a few times exercising and frankly in that setting they sound perfectly fine - maybe even good.  It takes a little getting used to the sound signature.  Where they really win me over is the fit and the ease of use.  Nobody designs a product like Apple.  On the bright side, if you can believe it, I found them.  I accidentally took my kids air pod case to work and it was empty and it led me to mistakenly believe I left them at the gym.  It took me a while to realize the case is shaped differently so false alarm and I'm back in business!  I'm certain Apple could develop a stellar sounding product so I have to believe they just don't care to invest more in the sound quality and from a business perspective, it probably makes sense.  Here's hoping someday they put it all together and knock it out of the park on sound too.


----------



## clerkpalmer

hifi80sman said:


> Do you like bright signatures?  If so, I won't even bother sharing my blasphemous settings.



Post it.  I'll give it a whirl.


----------



## d3myz (Dec 5, 2019)

Just got the Bomaker again.  Firstly, I have to say I REALLY enjoyed doing this comparison. I love Waking Aida and In my opinion this album has some of the best mastering and production I've ever heard in a recording. This drummer knows how to make his kit sound awesome, the bass is has that low rumble and enough tone to distinguish whether he's picking or using fingers. And the guitarists, my goodness. For a tiny band from England I was very fortunate to come across them on Spotify on day.

Now, to the brass tacs. I really like the Bomaker, but I love the T1x.   I must mention I just pulled the Bowmaker's out of the box and i've been burning in the T1x for 2 days now. They keep getting better.

I'm very please to say they are both pretty similar, the first difference that stands out to me is the attack on the snare drum it's full, crisp I dunno, fulfilling as hell on the T1x, with the bowmaker it also sound great, but it's lacking a little Thwack after the Crack!  It's dialed down like someone put a couple pieces of duck tape on the snare. To me it takes away some of that  depth and definition that makes your ears bleed when you standing next to someone playing drums.

 A fantastic example of this is drummers who play metal snares I.E.  Brad Wilk R.A.T.M and  John Dolmayan of S.O.A.D. If you've ever listened to "Show me how to live" or "What you Are" on AudioSlaves first album  (Excellent Recording) or "Toxicity" by S.O.A.D The Snare drums in those albums are all crack, not much Thwack. I digress..


Anyway, still really great mids on the bowmaker but highs and the low mids are slightly more tamed. you can really hear a diff in the performance in the Audioslave songs between the Two TWS' The T1x is just an unhinged beast, It's fuller bigger and just more exciting.

The Bowmaker has great controlled bass it's very balanced and sounds great. The T1x has less bass on the default EQ setting, more akin to the Tevi, you can really hear the highs and mids shine. With the Bass EQ on You get loads of more bass and it's a bit less controlled than the bomaker but I personally don't think it's too much at all and the highs and mids still sound wonderful.

When music gets busy, lots of guitars, cymbals etc. without strong bass it starts to hurt my ears. the T1x overall just sound more like i'm listening to a band play live. It seems to do a better job of separating vocals, guitars and cymbals, but I will complain that the vocals in some songs sound  a bit narrow.

At the end of Track 6 you can really hear again how well even though the song is loud and busy every thing is very well defined. The T1x's sound stage isn't as wide as the bomaker, but I had to turn the volume down on the bomaker, because it started to sound to smashed together and bright.

If any of you Own either one of these TWS'  or any TWS' you enjoy try these two tracks below or any track on this album, it's phenomenal. maybe even you old dudes will dig it.  . 

Track #5  That SNARE Drum is incredible!
Track #6  This song just grooves and then gets more and more complex and you can really hear how each bud handles all the instruments. and at around the 3 min. mark all the hair stands up on my arms. 

 I thought the T1x did a better in the complex parts, this maybe due to the bomaker sounding a touch thinner in the middle? I'm not an expert just a guy who's addicted to TWS' and Loves music. This seems odd because the bowmaker's sound stage sounds seems wider than the T1x. However, in some instances like the SSK/Anbes certain tracks sound a bit too wide and detracts from the cohesion of the music. Afterall we don't hear music in surround when we go to a concert, so why would we want to in our TWS'? I dunno call me a purist or an idiot, i don't care. 

In Summary, If you like the Bomaker Sifi, I think you'll absolutely love the T1x. Now i'll just wait for @tma6's comparison to the Tevi.


----------



## d3myz

clerkpalmer said:


> I've warmed up to the sound.  I used them a few times exercising and frankly in that setting they sound perfectly fine - maybe even good.  It takes a little getting used to the sound signature.  Where they really win me over is the fit and the ease of use.  Nobody designs a product like Apple.  On the bright side, if you can believe it, I found them.  I accidentally took my kids air pod case to work and it was empty and it led me to mistakenly believe I left them at the gym.  It took me a while to realize the case is shaped differently so false alarm and I'm back in business!  I'm certain Apple could develop a stellar sounding product so I have to believe they just don't care to invest more in the sound quality and from a business perspective, it probably makes sense.  Here's hoping someday they put it all together and knock it out of the park on sound too.


Oh Man! It's a Christmas Miracle!!!


----------



## tma6

d3myz said:


> Just got the Bomaker again.  Firstly, I have to say I REALLY enjoyed doing this comparison. I love Waking Aida and In my opinion this album has some of the best mastering and production I've ever heard in a recording. This drummer knows how to make his kit sound awesome, the bass is has that low rumble and enough tone to distinguish whether he's picking or using fingers. And the guitarists, my goodness. For a tiny band from England I was very fortunate to come across them on Spotify on day.
> 
> Now, to the brass tacs. I really like the Bomaker, but I love the T1x.   I must mention I just pulled the Bowmaker's out of the box and i've been burning in the T1x for 2 days now. They keep getting better.
> 
> ...




This is awesome! will do a Tevi comparison this weekend


----------



## d3myz

hifi80sman said:


> The Nuarl AA00A?  Newest version, obviously.  The Nuarl ZZ99Z Revision 9.9, Version 9.9?  Oh, that's the first one released.


Hahah. I see what you did there.


----------



## cwill

d3myz said:


> Just got the Bomaker again.  Firstly, I have to say I REALLY enjoyed doing this comparison. I love Waking Aida and In my opinion this album has some of the best mastering and production I've ever heard in a recording. This drummer knows how to make his kit sound awesome, the bass is has that low rumble and enough tone to distinguish whether he's picking or using fingers. And the guitarists, my goodness. For a tiny band from England I was very fortunate to come across them on Spotify on day.
> 
> Now, to the brass tacs. I really like the Bomaker, but I love the T1x.   I must mention I just pulled the Bowmaker's out of the box and i've been burning in the T1x for 2 days now. They keep getting better.
> 
> ...



I love your write-up here. Thanks. The only thing I'll disagree with is the comment about not hearing in surround sound at a concert. We absolutely do. I think this is why I love the SSK so much. The other night while listening to them I was astonished that the toms on a drum fill sounded like they were 10 yards away on the left side. It was truly incredible. These things just have no business being this good for $21.


----------



## FYLegend

Edifier TWS6 - 165$ CAD, AptX, Knowles BA, touch controls, Type C and Qi Wireless charging. Unfortunately it seems there's no volume control as with the NB.
https://www.amazon.ca/dp/B07ZVNGN4Y...colid=4G6BQG39EQ05&psc=1&ref_=lv_ov_lig_dp_it


----------



## d3myz

cwill said:


> I love your write-up here. Thanks. The only thing I'll disagree with is the comment about not hearing in surround sound at a concert. We absolutely do. I think this is why I love the SSK so much. The other night while listening to them I was astonished that the toms on a drum fill sounded like they were 10 yards away on the left side. It was truly incredible. These things just have no business being this good for $21.


I totally agree. I got a 2nd pair of 359's for $20 on ebay and it's just insane how good they sound for the price. You should share this song with me. I want to hear!  I guess my perspective is from drumming and sitting behind a kit. I def. want to hear the hats on my left and my toms of to the right. Drummers perspective. It's funny, I pulled out my SSK's and listened to these tracks, they just sound wonderful. They actually sound very similar, but less wide and the bass is a little more responsive. but they too have better separation in the highs when the music gets busy, it's just amazing.


----------



## Pete7874

d3myz said:


> I love Waking Aida and In my opinion this album has some of the best mastering and production I've ever heard in a recording.


Speaking of well produced records, I can recommend anything by Snarky Puppy, a jam band.  

Here's one of their tracks that builds nicely that I like to test earphones and speakers with:


----------



## hifi80sman

clerkpalmer said:


> Post it.  I'll give it a whirl.


----------



## d3myz

tma6 said:


> I've been crazy busy this week, but can definitely compare the T1Xs to the Tevis very soon. From memory, the T1Xs bass is actually quite impressive with decidedly more impact than the Tevis. The Tevis can actually go quite low, but drop off significantly at a point, whereas the T1Xs don't drop off to nearly the same degree. I do like the comparison though, the T1Xs mids and treble are great and should be comparable to the Tevis, but I'll check. Strangely, I'm having some comfort issues with the T1Xs, as I feel like the stems are going a little too far into my ears. Are you having this issue?
> 
> Def interested in your take on the Nuarls. Don't think you need to spend $90 on the Tevis at this point lolll



I'm currently using the L2p large tips with the orange center, maybe the mediums, and I just push the T1x in far enough to seal, but I feel you, some TWS' I feel like I have to use several tips until I get the right one. The ssk/anbes is like that for me.


----------



## Luchyres

Spamateur said:


> Thanks! I've actually heard the Nuarls and the L2Ps but more interested in the Aviot models as we rarely see them mentioned on this thread.
> 
> ...and damn you for your enabling ways. I have the NT01A sitting in my cart. I miss the sound of the AX even with all the weird quirks that annoyed me about them. If the bluetooth connection reliability has been improved, I think i could deal with the other quirks.
> 
> What's weird is I didn't even realize this was a new model since the naming convention of A vs AX makes the A seem like an "older" model.



I haven't had the issues you described with your pair so I may be lucky - or mishaps you were unlucky with your pair. The only thing keeping me from getting the NT01A is the imminent release of the N6Pro (and money) - but I *feel* like the NT01A will be a good buy if you get it as they probably ironed out any issues with the AX with the refined model.


----------



## d3myz

hifi80sman said:


>


Haha, mine is similar! I have a little more bass and highs.


----------



## d3myz

Pete7874 said:


> Speaking of well produced records, I can recommend anything by Snarky Puppy, a jam band.
> 
> Here's one of their tracks that builds nicely that I like to test earphones and speakers with:



Damn, this is a good recording. You wouldn't happen to like Govt. Mule would you?


----------



## hifi80sman

d3myz said:


> Haha, mine is similar! I have a little more bass and highs.


This is my office setting.  When I go to the gym, I'll increase the bass to +5 or +7 if it's Beast Mode Day, but those settings are so blasphemous, I cannot post them here.  Street Cred 'n all.


----------



## d3myz

hifi80sman said:


> This is my office setting.  When I go to the gym, I'll increase the bass to +5 or +7 if it's Beast Mode Day, but those settings are so blasphemous, I cannot post them here.  Street Cred 'n all.


I just listened to that Skanky Puppy sound and I had to totally re-arrange my eq to make it sound good. These sony's are weird.


----------



## d3myz (Dec 5, 2019)

..


----------



## tma6 (Dec 5, 2019)

Pete7874 said:


> Speaking of well produced records, I can recommend anything by Snarky Puppy, a jam band.
> 
> Here's one of their tracks that builds nicely that I like to test earphones and speakers with:






d3myz said:


> Damn, this is a good recording. You wouldn't happen to like Govt. Mule would you?



SNARKY PUPPY!! They're one of my favorites . You guys should 100% listen to their GroundUP album, sooooooo good.


----------



## chinmie

d3myz said:


> I think a more accurate comparison would be the WH-1000xm3 to the QC-25,35 etc. Over the Ear to Over the Ear or Even comparing the WF-1000xm3 to the Bose QC-20. which is not a TWS'. Is still comparing an apple to an orange.



Like Webvan said, i did ask about the XM3 ANC compared to headphones, but also to those QC20 earphone and QC30 neckband or other styled product 
I've tested the WH1000XM3 some time ago in a Sony store and remembered really liking the ANC, but not liking the sound too much (too much midbass hump). 



webvan said:


> I'd tried some Comply tips T-200 Isolation and Music tips and while they sealed my ear canal perfectly they didn't really help with isolation. It's probably due to the shape of the earbuds, like the L2Ps they don't fill the concha so isolation  isn't as good as those that do (65t, Echo Buds). The Comply tips were not a good idea anyway as they degraded the SQ.
> 
> Looks like you missed our friend's question : "now does anyone here have compare the ANC of the Wf-1000xm3 to headphones or other ANC IEMs like Bose, etc?"



Right now I'm using Symbio peel tips as it gives me more secure fit and better sound compared to the Sony Hybrids. I never like foam tips, i don't know why, but they finicky to insert in my ears, and seems to change the sound more than silicones..



ukbiker said:


> I received my new ssk bt03 today and have to say they are fantastic!  Prefer the sound to the MPOW T5s. Thanks to all of you in the thread who shared your experiences.
> 
> Unfortunately the left hand ear bud doesn't hold charge for more than 25 minutes.  Then a voice continuously comes on and says 'please charging'. So I guess this is defective and I need to send it back.
> 
> ...



Just a word of caution, i once had a similar experience with my Sabbat E12 (left side don't hold a charge). It turned out that the battery was faulty. I suggest you try and contact the seller for a replacement.



clerkpalmer said:


> Anyone with the Sony WF's have a good custom EQ setting they can share.  The presets all seem off to me.  Bright gets closest but is a little shouty.



My setting right now is just flat EQ with -4 on the bass boost, or -5 when I'm at home. The stock 0 bass is too much for me



tma6 said:


> I'm a huge fan of the Tevis for most anything that does not require a thumping bass (jazz, classical, acoustic, and even some rock etc.). The treble clarity and timbre is the best on any true wireless still imo. I do think that because of the lack of bass they lack versatility, and I myself usually need great bass in my TWS/headphones for daily listening. However, I do pull out my Tevis still particularly when I'm in the mood for some jazz. Maybe when (or if) they get the app to work it'll be possible to bring out the bass a bit more. I always felt that despite the lack of bass, it was very clean and therefore could perhaps do well with some EQ.



Have you by any chance ever compared the Tevi to Galaxy Buds? If you have, how do they compare on mids and treble?



clerkpalmer said:


> Whelp, it took less than 48 hours but I lost my APP buds.  Left them at the gym.  I have the case.  Went back and the buds are gone.  Thing is - who would even want them?  If they go online, they are registered to me so they are useless.



Really sorry to hear that....i guess they didn't think of that and just jumped the opportunity to take it..


----------



## mattedialdoc

Ok I’ve been really enjoying this T1x. I also have the Bomaker which I really love. I’ll need to compare using same tips. I like the fact that the Bomaker case is the smallest I’ve ever seen and so portable. Also IPX7. I had Tevi but sent them back after a week, so don’t have those to compare. I felt the Tevi were too much money for what they were....esp since Bomaker cost like $30.
But this T1x.....sweeeeet. And having an app is so cool.

the one thing I REALLY HATE is the fact it beeps whenever you use controls. Ugh sooo annoying. I’m getting ok with the funky touch pattern. It’s just ok as far as that goes.


----------



## Pete7874

d3myz said:


> You wouldn't happen to like Govt. Mule would you?


I've never listened to them, but I'll check them out.  Which album would you recommend for starters?


----------



## Spamateur

hifi80sman said:


> The Nuarl AA00A?  Newest version, obviously.  The Nuarl ZZ99Z Revision 9.9, Version 9.9?  Oh, that's the first one released.



HA! At least we can be thankful the Nuarls are all variants on the same essential design. The AVIOTs look radically different going from "TE-D01b" to "TE-D01g" despite the only naming difference being a single letter.


----------



## BigZ12 (Dec 5, 2019)

This is one of my go to test tracks for sound quality 
It has everything. Deeep bass, punchy bass, ideal for testing stereo mixing and soundstage perspective with all the crazy details (especially all the different percussion). Love the snare drum, crisp hi-hat and tight/punchy bass drum at about 6:50 etc.


Edit: It's not the kind of music I listen to daily, just for testing headphones/speakers etc. 
Edit2: The track sound of course much better with my Tidal Hi-fi sub.. (compared to the YT vid)


----------



## Quicky32

Is there a certain style I should be looking for to use in the gym? The Jlab and Powerbeats Pro are probably the best fit but anything else?


----------



## Blueshound24 (Dec 5, 2019)

Quicky32 said:


> Is there a certain style I should be looking for to use in the gym? The Jlab and Powerbeats Pro are probably the best fit but anything else?



Hello fellow South Dakotan!
I noticed you're from Sioux Falls in your signature. Welcome to Head-Fi, (and sorry about your wallet, LOL).


----------



## Quicky32

Blueshound24 said:


> Hello fellow South Dakotan!
> I noticed you're from Sioux Falls in your profile. Welcome to Head-Fi, (and sorry about your wallet, LOL).



Haha thank you.  I've tried 1 set of TWS (L2P) and I could not get a good fit.  They will be used primarily for the gym...


----------



## Blueshound24 (Dec 5, 2019)

Quicky32 said:


> Haha thank you.  I've tried 1 set of TWS (L2P) and I could not get a good fit.  They will be used primarily for the gym...



Same here with the L2P, I could not get a solid deep fit with them due to their housing necessitating a shallow fit.

I haven't tried many TWS, but all others I have tried have had a good secure feel.

HiFiMan TWS600 - Good mids and treble, but lacking bass.
Shanling MTW100 BA - Excellent dynamic balanced sound.
SSK TWS - Good mids and treble, ok bass, budget priced.


EDIT: I would look for the IPX rating of TWS if they're going to be used in the gym.


----------



## Quicky32

Blueshound24 said:


> Same here with the L2P, I could not get a solid deep fit with them due to their housing necessitating a shallow fit.
> 
> I haven't tried many TWS, but all others I have tried have had a good secure feel.
> 
> ...



Thank you.  The Shanling look like the Sabbat E12...


----------



## D3soLaT3

Look what came in the mail today.




Just as soon as my girlfriend thought I was done getting Amazon packages I hit her with...



 Another One


----------



## actorlife (Dec 5, 2019)

Hi Guys! Haven't looked at this thread in about 3 weeks. Anything good bargains lately? Does Chi-Fi the SSK/Anbes/Ofusho have competition? Fill me in.


----------



## indigo

WesennTony said:


> Could you tell me if your TE-BD21f-pnk have any noticeable hiss? I got the regular TE-BD21f two days ago, still in burn-in stage. I love the overall package but the hiss kills me. Slightly less than L2P 2nd version, but still quite noticeable. If I paid their regular price in Japan (~$150), I won't mind, but I paid $260 here in USA from 3rd party on Amazon, so it's a little bit hard to swallow. Other than that, I would say they're upgrade, non-fatigue version of L2P with less bass,  clearer mids, sparkly yet non piercing highs. The bass impact is still there with good texture and decay from the 9mm DD, just not so profound as L2P.  Most importantly, the tonality/timbre is accurate to my ears, which is not the case in L2P.  Comparing with Aviot te-d01b and Nuarl nt01ax, they sound sightly warmer and thicker, closer to NW07. Their shape is Frankenstein in ears, but very light (about 5g) and extremely comfortable and great isolation. A funny thing is that their nozzles are oval shape, and the stock tips are oval as well both in stem and outer, a first in my IEM collections. Their sound sig is tuned toward main stream music, which surprised me as I excepted they go up along te-d01b. Without the hiss, they're a keeper, though not so wowed as by te-d01b. Now with the hiss, I may still keep them in rotation, considering the difficulty in returning them. The seller delivered them in 2 days from Japan, and responded well with my concerns, sending me an English manual. I'll see if I can stand the hiss later on.



No, no discernible hiss, on either Spotify or stored music. Source is a Galaxy Note 10.

I'm beginning to like these more and more, the bass impact is becoming stronger with burn in, yet the mids and highs are still present, with no equalization.


----------



## voicemaster

Quicky32 said:


> Thank you.  The Shanling look like the Sabbat E12...


Fiil t1x maybe.


----------



## makimo2989

Huh... No matter what I also can't get a good fit for my left ear with the L2P, be it the included silicones, or any foam tips that I have (and I have a lot of eartips and foam tips!). And dont get me started on the wingtips, I have to fit the largest wingtips to fit my ears, but no matter what, my left ear is no bueno! It keeps popping out...

So if I were to rank the TWS I have on hand, my preference are:
1) Tronsmart Spunky Beat (bass, mids, highs, all just the right amount - what's not to love?) (rock solid connections, they fit like a glove right out of the box and they're freakin' cheap, got them for only $18!!!) 
2) Soundcore L2P (can't beat the bass, soundstage and highs - if only they fit properly on my left ear)
3) Sabbat E12 Ultra (sounds very good, but I think I have a defective pair, the connection sucks! Even if I move my head a bit to the left or right, the opposite earphone will just go silent, until I move my head back to straight forward! So not recommended for the gym!)
4) Creative Outlier Air (my first pair of TWS, showing it's age, although it's only 7 months! Bass is a plenty but other than that everything is a bit recessed, soundstage, mids, highs... But they fit oh so snug.. using the E12 Ultra's small TWS silicone!)


----------



## Samplingentropy (Dec 5, 2019)

Back again, decided to give tws a try if I can figure out the "best bang for the buck" pair.
Budget is low, really low, like 20-30€
Has to be shipped from EU, taxes an custom and whatnot =\
Read through this thread from start to end.
From what I remember these are highly praised for the money.

Anbes 359
Mpow m5
Tronsmart spunky (can't find the low price mentioned here)
Qcy something (don't remember the one recommend,found t5 within my budget)

Anything else I should look at?

Preferences are balanced sound that works for everything, I listen to classical,through hip-hop to metal,not a basshead but I do appreciate some thump.
Is there a tws that fits my rather sad budget?

Or should I just order a new pair of Kz ed9's that are "good enough" and so cheap I can actually afford them without my wallet crying..
Thanks


----------



## tma6

Quicky32 said:


> Is there a certain style I should be looking for to use in the gym? The Jlab and Powerbeats Pro are probably the best fit but anything else?



What's your budget man? Could try to make some suggestions. Been trying out FiiL T1Xs and they're def worth a try at $50. Fit is tough to gauge bc it is unique for each person. Actually, if you're looking for pure comfort, ease at the gym, with solid sound I'd also take a look at the 1more stylish which you can get for around $75 on amazon rn.


----------



## Caipirina

actorlife said:


> Hi Guys! Haven't looked at this thread in about 3 weeks. Anything good bargains lately? Does Chi-Fi the SSK/Anbes/Ofusho have competition? Fill me in.



You only missed 11.11. and BF  

The Tronsmart Spunky Beat recently got some good hype here as cheapest AptX with pretty neat sound which were avavilable for 19.99 now back to 25 (always check scarbir for latest reviews, Bartig is not done yet with hoarding, while I am slowing down and might rather focus on some more top end models this xmas)


----------



## D3soLaT3

Samplingentropy said:


> Back again, decided to give tws a try if I can figure out the "best bang for the buck" pair.
> Budget is low, really low, like 20-30€
> Read through this thread from start to end.
> From what I remember these are highly praised for the money.
> ...


With the Anbes and SSK so difficult to come across, I would recommend the Soundpeats TrueDot. Currently $25.50, thats 15% off if you can buy direct. If not Amazon (U.S) has them for $23.99 after you clip the $6 off coupon. Swedish prices may vary. I own the Anbes, SSK, and the TrueDot and have no problem recommending them for a budget option. I believe they even share the same Realtek chip. Surprised they are not discussed more on this thread.


----------



## georgelai57

I see that Anker is offering the L2P for $40 off again. With so much love on this forum, maybe the one or two stalwarts here who are getting their “free” third version, could request Anker for an additional discount for us mere mortals.


----------



## Samplingentropy

D3soLaT3 said:


> With the Anbes and SSK so difficult to come across, I would recommend the Soundpeats TrueDot. Currently $25.50, thats 15% off if you can buy direct. If not Amazon (U.S) has them for $23.99 after you clip the $6 off coupon. Swedish prices may vary. I own the Anbes, SSK, and the TrueDot and have no problem recommending them for a budget option. I believe they even share the same Realtek chip. Surprised they are not discussed more on this thread.



Those looked small and nice in form factor, but "item does not ship to Sweden"
And when I try to eBay them price is almost dubbled =\
Ssk? 
My best chance seems to be through eBay and limiting the search to Europe.


----------



## voicemaster

d3myz said:


> Just got the Bomaker again.  Firstly, I have to say I REALLY enjoyed doing this comparison. I love Waking Aida and In my opinion this album has some of the best mastering and production I've ever heard in a recording. This drummer knows how to make his kit sound awesome, the bass is has that low rumble and enough tone to distinguish whether he's picking or using fingers. And the guitarists, my goodness. For a tiny band from England I was very fortunate to come across them on Spotify on day.
> 
> Now, to the brass tacs. I really like the Bomaker, but I love the T1x.   I must mention I just pulled the Bowmaker's out of the box and i've been burning in the T1x for 2 days now. They keep getting better.
> 
> ...




Try this video for soundstage


----------



## Caipirina

Slightly side-of-topic: Anyone here use their TWS on planes with an AirFly (or similar)? 
I wonder if this is something I need, I really enjoyed using my APP on my last flight, but for movie watching I pulled out my QC35 (which was ok, battery on APP needed recharge   )
Aliexpress has several other BT transmitters ... what mind-boggles me is 'how does the pairing work'? 
Usually at least one of the devices of what I am trying to pair has a screen. Can someone shed some light on that?


----------



## srinivasvignesh

I do not, and have been curious about such devices.  Here is one with RHA, pairing process, looks to be automatic.

https://www.rha-audio.com/us/products/accessories/wireless-flight-adapter


----------



## Daniel Gur

Hmm ali cancelled my black friday order on the MPOW T5's.
Are they still the best for 50 bucks, or can I get some better stuff nowdays?
Thanks for the replies.


----------



## chinmie

Caipirina said:


> Slightly side-of-topic: Anyone here use their TWS on planes with an AirFly (or similar)?
> I wonder if this is something I need, I really enjoyed using my APP on my last flight, but for movie watching I pulled out my QC35 (which was ok, battery on APP needed recharge   )
> Aliexpress has several other BT transmitters ... what mind-boggles me is 'how does the pairing work'?
> Usually at least one of the devices of what I am trying to pair has a screen. Can someone shed some light on that?



i use a Ugreen optical to BT transmitter like this on my non BT TV
 

pairing is easy, but on this particular unit i can't change volume from the TV, so i have to use BT TWS/headphones that have volume control with it. i reckon the unit that does audio to BT transmission like the Airfly should be able to change volume from the source


----------



## webvan

Caipirina said:


> Slightly side-of-topic: Anyone here use their TWS on planes with an AirFly (or similar)?
> I wonder if this is something I need, I really enjoyed using my APP on my last flight, but for movie watching I pulled out my QC35 (which was ok, battery on APP needed recharge   )
> Aliexpress has several other BT transmitters ... what mind-boggles me is 'how does the pairing work'?
> Usually at least one of the devices of what I am trying to pair has a screen. Can someone shed some light on that?


Found the AirFly manual here http://ffe82a399885f9f28605-6663898...Support Product Manuals/12S_AirFly_Manual.pdf
Looks like it works its magic pretty easily, see on page 6


----------



## actorlife

Caipirina said:


> You only missed 11.11. and BF
> 
> The Tronsmart Spunky Beat recently got some good hype here as cheapest AptX with pretty neat sound which were avavilable for 19.99 now back to 25 (always check scarbir for latest reviews, Bartig is not done yet with hoarding, while I am slowing down and might rather focus on some more top end models this xmas)



Hello and Thanks Caipirina!
Reading from bartig's looks like spunky beat doesn't have the sparkle of the treble I like. Like the Anbes, Ofusho and SSK does.


----------



## Mouseman

Daniel Gur said:


> Hmm ali cancelled my black friday order on the MPOW T5's.
> Are they still the best for 50 bucks, or can I get some better stuff nowdays?
> Thanks for the replies.


Right now on Amazon (US), the Tranya B530s are on sale for $45. I find them superior to the T5s. I like the T5s, but the Tranyas are better in every way, IMHO.


----------



## WesennTony

indigo said:


> No, no discernible hiss, on either Spotify or stored music. Source is a Galaxy Note 10.
> 
> I'm beginning to like these more and more, the bass impact is becoming stronger with burn in, yet the mids and highs are still present, with no equalization.


Thanks. I've contacted seller about this.
Yes, even with hiss, they sound amazing to me. Tested with some EDCs, everything is absolutely spot-on.


----------



## Daniel Gur

Mouseman said:


> Right now on Amazon (US), the Tranya B530s are on sale for $45. I find them superior to the T5s. I like the T5s, but the Tranyas are better in every way, IMHO.


The seller who sells them does not ship to my country 
I also thought of purchasing the Bomaker Sifi, but same for these, no shipping to my country.
Its very strange, cause most of the stuff doesn ship to me.


----------



## Quicky32

tma6 said:


> What's your budget man? Could try to make some suggestions. Been trying out FiiL T1Xs and they're def worth a try at $50. Fit is tough to gauge bc it is unique for each person. Actually, if you're looking for pure comfort, ease at the gym, with solid sound I'd also take a look at the 1more stylish which you can get for around $75 on amazon rn.





tma6 said:


> What's your budget man? Could try to make some suggestions. Been trying out FiiL T1Xs and they're def worth a try at $50. Fit is tough to gauge bc it is unique for each person. Actually, if you're looking for pure comfort, ease at the gym, with solid sound I'd also take a look at the 1more stylish which you can get for around $75 on amazon rn.



My budget is under $120 and I haven’t ruled out sports style or neckband.  I have Ibasso IT01 now...

Secure fit

Clean sound on all types of music

Decent bass


----------



## voicemaster

Daniel Gur said:


> Hmm ali cancelled my black friday order on the MPOW T5's.
> Are they still the best for 50 bucks, or can I get some better stuff nowdays?
> Thanks for the replies.



Fiil T1X is imho better than the mpow T5/M5.


----------



## dweaver

Quicky32 said:


> My budget is under $120 and I haven’t ruled out sports style or neckband.  I have Ibasso IT01 now...
> 
> Secure fit
> 
> ...


Liberty 2 or Liberty 2 Pro would work. Hypertek Tevi might also work and have IPX7 rating.


----------



## cwill

So my Spunky Beat right bud just died completely yet the left is at 60%. What gives?


----------



## tma6 (Dec 6, 2019)

Quicky32 said:


> My budget is under $120 and I haven’t ruled out sports style or neckband.  I have Ibasso IT01 now...
> 
> Secure fit
> 
> ...



Def check out the 1more stylish. I found them super comfortable, lightweight, and great at the gym. They’re not the best sounding on the market but they are clean and have a solid bass emphasis that’s not overpowering. Also some of the best controls I’ve experienced on a TWS, and I think they just added volume control in a recent update.

If the FiiL TX1s fit you they’re a better sounding option, also with wing tips for $50. They aren’t super comfortable for me just bc they seem to go a bit too far into my ear canal, but once again fit is individual and others seem to have no problem with the fit.

If you’re willing to take a step up in price and sound, the MW07 Go are probably the best sounding workout buds on the market rn for $200. I’ve only tried the MW07/+ but I’ve heard there’s almost no difference in sound between those and the Go.


----------



## voicemaster

Caipirina said:


> Slightly side-of-topic: Anyone here use their TWS on planes with an AirFly (or similar)?
> I wonder if this is something I need, I really enjoyed using my APP on my last flight, but for movie watching I pulled out my QC35 (which was ok, battery on APP needed recharge   )
> Aliexpress has several other BT transmitters ... what mind-boggles me is 'how does the pairing work'?
> Usually at least one of the devices of what I am trying to pair has a screen. Can someone shed some light on that?



I have used taotronic bluetooth transmitter/receiver for my long haul (12+ hours) flight. No delay on video when I was pairing it with my QCY T1C which only supported SBC. The only CON is when watching movie, if there is a silent or quiet moment, the bluetooth kind of switch on and off (because its think there is no audio signal playing, it works kinda like a GATE on mixing console which can be annoying). For music playback, it is pretty solid imho.


----------



## Pete7874

dweaver said:


> Liberty 2 or Liberty 2 Pro would work.


He already tried them and returned them due to poor fit, IIRC.


----------



## tkuhe

Just received the Bomaker sifi's. Thanks to everyone on this board for all the amazing reviews and information.
Build quality and fit is very good however the volume level is not as high as I expected. That said this is my first pair of TW Headphones so I am not sure if that is common. Is the low volume a bomaker specific issue or is this common with these types of of heaphones?
Listening to spotify using my pixel 3a.


----------



## d3myz

actorlife said:


> Hi Guys! Haven't looked at this thread in about 3 weeks. Anything good bargains lately? Does Chi-Fi the SSK/Anbes/Ofusho have competition? Fill me in.


Been wondering where you been. FIIL T1x is pretty sweet.


----------



## d3myz

georgelai57 said:


> I see that Anker is offering the L2P for $40 off again. With so much love on this forum, maybe the one or two stalwarts here who are getting their “free” third version, could request Anker for an additional discount for us mere mortals.


My dude. I have a pair I bought directly from anker a couple weeks ago. I'll let them go for cheaper than anker has them including shipping. DM me. My wife was nagging me last night asking why I have 3 pair.


----------



## dweaver

Pete7874 said:


> He already tried them and returned them due to poor fit, IIRC.


 ahhh missed that! Then the Tevi might be a good choice.


----------



## cwill

d3myz said:


> My dude. I have a pair I bought directly from anker a couple weeks ago. I'll let them go for cheaper than anker has them including shipping. DM me. My wife was nagging me last night asking why I have 3 pair.


Same here. If anyone would like a pair I'm selling mine. They're brand new, only used once with my own tips. $90 shipped.


----------



## Quicky32

dweaver said:


> Liberty 2 or Liberty 2 Pro would work. Hypertek Tevi might also work and have IPX7 rating.



The Lypertek have enough bass?  Some reviews say they don't have much...


----------



## Caipirina

voicemaster said:


> I have used taotronic bluetooth transmitter/receiver for my long haul (12+ hours) flight. No delay on video when I was pairing it with my QCY T1C which only supported SBC. The only CON is when watching movie, if there is a silent or quiet moment, the bluetooth kind of switch on and off (because its think there is no audio signal playing, it works kinda like a GATE on mixing console which can be annoying). For music playback, it is pretty solid imho.



Oh wow, did not think about potential video / audio lag at all .. thanks for the hands-on report and thanks to everyone else for chiming in with instructions.


----------



## Caipirina

cwill said:


> So my Spunky Beat right bud just died completely yet the left is at 60%. What gives?



Can you see the level of battery for each ear? how? I actually might have had something similar when I tried them last, they turned on and then right off again, did not spend too much time investigating, just put them on charger for now. I could imagine some loose connection (of the metal contacts for charging) when charging ... i have that with some others, which like to highjack the BT connection of my phone while still securely inside the closed case


----------



## Caipirina

Daniel Gur said:


> The seller who sells them does not ship to my country
> I also thought of purchasing the Bomaker Sifi, but same for these, no shipping to my country.
> Its very strange, cause most of the stuff doesn ship to me.



What fancy (or high postal risk?) country are you in? I see it sometimes that sellers want to slap me with extra high shipping fees (for Sri Lanka) when it is higher priced items. I guess they have some kind of risk assessment / history of 'did not arrive' for each location ... 

Also curious about the Bomaker SiFi, but I will not be within amazon reach until summer, by then they are obsolete


----------



## Daniel Gur

Caipirina said:


> What fancy (or high postal risk?) country are you in? I see it sometimes that sellers want to slap me with extra high shipping fees (for Sri Lanka) when it is higher priced items. I guess they have some kind of risk assessment / history of 'did not arrive' for each location ...
> 
> Also curious about the Bomaker SiFi, but I will not be within amazon reach until summer, by then they are obsolete


I am from Israel. I think I will buy the FIIL T1x they are very ugly but people here praise em so **** it.


----------



## turbobb (Dec 6, 2019)

voicemaster said:


> Try this video for soundstage



Really enjoyed this one thx for sharing. In terms of soundstage, nothing beats the MW07 of the TWE's I've tried (though a close second might be Bose SSF).

Back on direct topic, just got this one in:
https://www.amazon.com/X-mini-Liberty-True-Wireless-Earbuds/dp/B07XBJMJK7

Had a very quick listen and thus far it reminds me (based on memory) a lot of the Mpow T5 (original version before the connectivity fix) with perhaps a slightly recessed upper mid/lower treb (1-2k). Burning them in and will report back on how they fare later.


----------



## d3myz

Quicky32 said:


> The Lypertek have enough bass?  Some reviews say they don't have much...


I think it lacks bass. It's great if you only listen to jazz, acoustic and audiobooks.


----------



## Luchyres

Quicky32 said:


> My budget is under $120 and I haven’t ruled out sports style or neckband.  I have Ibasso IT01 now...
> 
> Secure fit
> 
> ...



Honestly, I'd recommend these Nuarl NT01A that are on sale for $108 currently. 

Update to my favorite TWS - and the sound is fantastic for my taste (and eq-able) 

The fins _may _ work for you - they don't for me, but I still have a very secure fit without. YMMV Good Luck!


----------



## howdy

The L2Pros are gonna be dropped off soon, decisions, decisions. Should I try them out or just send them back.


----------



## d3myz

howdy said:


> The L2Pros are gonna be dropped off soon, decisions, decisions. Should I try them out or just send them back.


Try them. You may like them.


----------



## voicemaster

Daniel Gur said:


> I am from Israel. I think I will buy the FIIL T1x they are very ugly but people here praise em so **** it.


Why you think its ugly? When you use it, it looks like 90% of tws design out there. I think tws like L2P, bose looks kinda ugly.


----------



## vurtomatic

Like the sound of the L2P but it feels so unwieldy and unergonomic. Those wings are pretty useless but removing them feels odd too. And yes they're ugly as hell when worn.

How does the T1X compare in sound for electronic music?


----------



## d3myz

vurtomatic said:


> Like the sound of the L2P but it feels so unwieldy and unergonomic. Those wings are pretty useless but removing them feels odd too. And yes they're ugly as hell when worn.
> 
> How does the T1X compare in sound for electronic music?


Send me some tracks you like and I'll test them out.


----------



## d3myz

voicemaster said:


> Why you think its ugly? When you use it, it looks like 90% of tws design out there. I think tws like L2P, bose looks kinda ugly.


To each their own. I think the FIIL's look cool The L2pro and the Sony's are like the old school BT earpieces, but I don't mind them. I think the MW07 is kind of ugly but I feel like a baller when I wear them.


----------



## d3myz

Just wanted to mention I got a new pair of T1x's today, they still sound great, my first pair I've burned in for 16 hours do sound more responsive and full.


----------



## d3myz

FYE:


----------



## FYLegend

L2P now has a 30$ coupon, way to snub Black Friday and Cyber Monday.


----------



## vurtomatic

d3myz said:


> Send me some tracks you like and I'll test them out.



Oh thanks man! How about this podcast from Hernan Cattaneo? http://podcast.hernancattaneo.com/e/resident-episode-447-nov-30-2019/


----------



## howdy (Dec 6, 2019)

Trying out the L2P right now, these have a LOT of bass! I have it on treble booster right now. 
I should mention that I'm using the Spinfits cuz I like them.


----------



## howdy

FYLegend said:


> L2P now has a 30$ coupon, way to snub Black Friday and Cyber Monday.


 there is a 40 dollar one on Facebook.


----------



## Quicky32

d3myz said:


> FYE:




I watched this last night...Flossy is hilarious.


----------



## voicemaster

d3myz said:


> To each their own. I think the FIIL's look cool The L2pro and the Sony's are like the old school BT earpieces, but I don't mind them. I think the MW07 is kind of ugly but I feel like a baller when I wear them.



For me, the best looking TWS is Sabbat E12U. Too bad the sound is not for me.


----------



## voicemaster

Quicky32 said:


> I watched this last night...Flossy is hilarious.



Yeah he does all TWS review with max volume.


----------



## Pete7874

FYLegend said:


> L2P now has a 30$ coupon, way to snub Black Friday and Cyber Monday.


I'm seeing a $40 discount right now, both on soundcore.com as well as on Amazon.


----------



## FYLegend

Pete7874 said:


> I'm seeing a $40 discount right now, both on soundcore.com as well as on Amazon.


Sorry I was referring to Amazon.ca. we never got any of the bigger discounts and soundcore.com doesn't ship to Canada.


----------



## Quicky32

voicemaster said:


> Yeah he does all TWS review with max volume.



Yea and he is a bass head.  I know he didn't like the RHA or MW07 at all.


----------



## XGUGU

voicemaster said:


> Yeah he does all TWS review with max volume.


Enough proof to believe his hearing is fd up


----------



## d3myz

voicemaster said:


> For me, the best looking TWS is Sabbat E12U. Too bad the sound is not for me.


I just returned mine. I was so disappointed in the mediocre sound.


----------



## d3myz

webvan said:


> Tips and seal for the X12? That doesn't sound right, did you mean the E12 maybe?


Just saw this, yea. it was the E12 Ultra.


----------



## howdy (Dec 6, 2019)

Well, I do like these (LP2s) but still think my Sony, Sennheiser and Beats are better sounding. I do think with some eq it could be great. I do prefer the sound of the LP2S a lot more than my Jabra Elite Active. I may have to sell those to justify keeping these.
If anyone wants to buy a hardly used Jabra Elite Active 65t with a 2 year best buy warranty DM me.


----------



## d3myz

FYLegend said:


> Well I basically got an ad from a product I just viewed (an MPOW TWS) claiming cashback. The FB page claimed to be officially Seneo (a sub-brand of MPOW) but didn't have anything indicating it was official.
> 
> Since you mentioned tips, do you mean E12 or X12?
> I was able to try my friend's copper E12 Ultra today and it didn't have the same sound defects I had experienced on my blue camo. If anything it was slightly the opposite - the left bud being more bassy and the right one being slightly brighter, but overall it was far more balanced than mine. With foam padding in the nozzle I was able to get mine to sound more balanced albeit somewhat subdued overall - I suspect the left driver is how it was supposed to sound, with the mids being more peaked. The highs don't seem rolled off much to me, but the detail retrieval could be better (I'd say only average at best). In some ways it reminds me of the ATH-M50 back in the day being the jack of all trades and master of none.
> ...



Sorry, it was the E12U. I hated the way the sounded, super veiled and plain. Maybe mine were defective. I got the gun metal. Even some of the crappy TWS' I test from amazon sounded better. As for epacket, i'm not sure. I ordered the Tronsmarts last week i think, didn't pay attention to how it's coming.


----------



## hifi80sman

turbobb said:


> Really enjoyed this one thx for sharing. In terms of soundstage, nothing beats the MW07 of the TWE's I've tried (though a close second might be Bose SSF).
> 
> Back on direct topic, just got this one in:
> https://www.amazon.com/X-mini-Liberty-True-Wireless-Earbuds/dp/B07XBJMJK7
> ...


Nice.  I was wondering if those were basically a MPOW T5 re-brand and it sounds like they may be close to that.


----------



## d3myz

hifi80sman said:


> Nice.  I was wondering if those were basically a MPOW T5 re-brand and it sounds like they may be close to that.


Found them on ebay. https://www.ebay.com/itm/X-mini-Lib...717815?hash=item34169d7737:g:mRgAAOSw6D5dsCTG


----------



## hifi80sman

XGUGU said:


> Enough proof to believe his hearing is fd up


A major, major, major warning sign is when someone complains they don't get "loud enough" AND is reviewing for SQ.  I can't even imagine a situation where the loudest setting on any TWS I have is not loud enough for anyone with normal hearing, even compensating for age.  Not sure I want to take SQ advice from someone with moderate hearing loss.

That being said, his reviews are entertaining, so yes, I do subscribe to his channel.


----------



## webvan

Did he ever follow up on his fake-fake APPs?


----------



## hifi80sman

webvan said:


> Did he ever follow up on his fake-fake APPs?


No.  That video also went private.  May have been a real pair to rip people off, so he took it off public.

This guy has a good review and it looks like the fakes aren't as good.


----------



## chinmie

d3myz said:


> Sorry, it was the E12U. I hated the way the sounded, super veiled and plain. Maybe mine were defective. I got the gun metal. Even some of the crappy TWS' I test from amazon sounded better. As for epacket, i'm not sure. I ordered the Tronsmarts last week i think, didn't pay attention to how it's coming.



nope, i think you got the right one, it is one of the most disappointing TWS purchase ever, mainly because of the high hopes i put in it


----------



## webvan

Yeah tey


hifi80sman said:


> No.  That video also went private.  May have been a real pair to rip people off, so he took it off public.
> 
> This guy has a good review and it looks like the fakes aren't as good.



Thanks, yes that's more like what you'd expect. As for Flossy either he got confused in his video with multiple media loaners or he did get "tricked", either way he's probably right to try to sweep that video under the carpet


----------



## FYLegend

Anyone trying the Dyplay TWS?
https://www.amazon.com/Wireless-Earbuds-Bluetooth-Headphones-dyplay/dp/B07XQ3CPG6

It's also on Amazon.ca for 80$... I also see the Urban Traveller 2 over-ear listed (they told me it would be released in early December but I already purchased it on Black Friday).



d3myz said:


> Sorry, it was the E12U. I hated the way the sounded, super veiled and plain. Maybe mine were defective. I got the gun metal. Even some of the crappy TWS' I test from amazon sounded better. As for epacket, i'm not sure. I ordered the Tronsmarts last week i think, didn't pay attention to how it's coming.


Well I'm not surprised if it's not defective, but I preferred it to the shallow, hollowed mid sound of the original. As for Tronsmart, they waited nearly 5 days until the last 12 hours or so to finally ship my Onyx Neo - they didn't even respond to my question whether Onyx Neo or Spunky Beat was the upper-tier product. They're using UBI rather than "Aliexpress Standard Shipping". Some people say UBI is almost like ePacket but it seems sellers don't always clearly list it.


----------



## cacio

Caipirina said:


> Also curious about the Bomaker SiFi, but I will not be within amazon reach until summer, by then they are obsolete



listening to SiFi right now (received 2 days ago) and they are a good overall package with a nice pocketable small case. might be a bit nicer sounding than MPOW T5/M5 (don't have them to A/B right now) but I guess a little bit more burn in would improve the SiFi further

But I would not buy them again simply because one always wants better sound quality with each upgrade. They are anyway for my sister ^^

PS: I have still not received my pair of those. anyone else who ordered them ?

https://s.click.aliexpress.com/e/koeMVEHOb
https://mobilephonegift.com/product/mpg-bqc35-anc-tws-earbuds-active-noise-cancelling/


----------



## Timastyle

How does the T1X compare to SSK?


----------



## tma6

hifi80sman said:


> No.  That video also went private.  May have been a real pair to rip people off, so he took it off public.
> 
> This guy has a good review and it looks like the fakes aren't as good.




Curious what you’re full thoughts on the APP sound are after using them for a bit. I thought they were underwhelming overall in the bass and treble, though great w mids


----------



## hifi80sman

tma6 said:


> Curious what you’re full thoughts on the APP sound are after using them for a bit. I thought they were underwhelming overall in the bass and treble, though great w mids


They've grown on me.  They have an engaging mid range and even though the bass is a little soft, I kind of like it now, while I don't perceive the highs as scratchy on my second set.  The iOS integration is great and phone calls are the best you can get from a TWS.  I also got it for $60 less due to some unexpected Apple Store gift cards.


----------



## DigDub

tma6 said:


> Curious what you’re full thoughts on the APP sound are after using them for a bit. I thought they were underwhelming overall in the bass and treble, though great w mids


Try removing the white mesh from the rubber tips. It improves the highs and bass comes through naturally.


----------



## atmosfearz

Hello, does anyone has Liberty 2 Pro? Do you notice really loud hissing/white noise? Is there's any way to fix it? For now it's totally unlistanable, seems like I gonna return it the same day I received it.


----------



## al2813

hifi80sman said:


> They've grown on me.  They have an engaging mid range and even though the bass is a little soft, I kind of like it now, while I don't perceive the highs as scratchy on my second set.  The iOS integration is great and phone calls are the best you can get from a TWS.  I also got it for $60 less due to some unexpected Apple Store gift cards.



I just got my APP and honestly I think I will be using them a lot. When I want to LISTEN to music I put on my wired IEMs or use my stereo setups at home. These are for on the move with call quality priming above all. And my Qobuz playlists don't sound that bad either.


----------



## Caipirina

hifi80sman said:


> No.  That video also went private.  May have been a real pair to rip people off, so he took it off public.
> 
> This guy has a good review and it looks like the fakes aren't as good.



Lol, 80$ for ‘70% of the sound / no bass / no ANC’ and no transparent mode either, soooo, purely for posing I guess ...

might tickle my fancy some day as a back up when they come in matte black, improved the sound and dropped to 20$  the fit of this design is awesome


----------



## Mouseman

atmosfearz said:


> Hello, does anyone has Liberty 2 Pro? Do you notice really loud hissing/white noise? Is there's any way to fix it? For now it's totally unlistanable, seems like I gonna return it the same day I received it.


You might want to search this thread - there are probably hundreds of posts about this. It sounds like you might have received the first version, which had bad hiss. I have the second version and it's barely noticeable, but Anker is working on a third version (2nd revision) to address hissing issues. I'm not sure if I'm going to pursue replacement or not.


----------



## Quicky32

Are there any good sports style earbuds or over ear?


----------



## clerkpalmer

Repurchased the Sony’s to compare to the APP. I should have learned my lesson the first time. The fit is a disaster at least for me. They are heavy so when moving around the weight slowly causes them to turn down. Fit is subjective of course so maybe they work for others. The sound seems overly processed or something. Can’t quite put my finger on it. While they sound full and dynamic, I don’t really enjoy it. I do think the ANC is better than the APP. They completely knocked the gym fan out where the APP did not. Not sure they serve any use case for me because if I have to be sitting still to use them I’ll just use wired IEMs. They’ve gotten a lot of praise from reviewers but the ergonomics are a deal breaker. I hope Sony can repackage them in a smaller perhaps gym friendly form factor.

 I would almost always select the buds that sound better over just about anything, but in this circumstance I think the APP wins. in some ways, i prefer the sound on the APP. 

I’ll give them another shot over the weekend but I’m guessing these are going to the sale forums or eBay.


----------



## chinmie

clerkpalmer said:


> Repurchased the Sony’s to compare to the APP. I should have learned my lesson the first time. The fit is a disaster at least for me. They are heavy so when moving around the weight slowly causes them to turn down. Fit is subjective of course so maybe they work for others. The sound seems overly processed or something. Can’t quite put my finger on it. While they sound full and dynamic, I don’t really enjoy it. I do think the ANC is better than the APP. They completely knocked the gym fan out where the APP did not. Not sure they serve any use case for me because if I have to be sitting still to use them I’ll just use wired IEMs. They’ve gotten a lot of praise from reviewers but the ergonomics are a deal breaker. I hope Sony can repackage them in a smaller perhaps gym friendly form factor.
> 
> I would almost always select the buds that sound better over just about anything, but in this circumstance I think the APP wins. in some ways, i prefer the sound on the APP.
> 
> I’ll give them another shot over the weekend but I’m guessing these are going to the sale forums or eBay.



call me crazy, but i kinda prefer the sound of the older wf-1000x to the new one, except for the really top end treble (the older one seemed to be a bit rolled off at the very top)

but overall, with the -5 bass reduction, this XM3 as a whole package is a satisfying buy. i do a bit curious how the APP sound. seeing that I'm more of a mid and treble guy, the APP might surprisingly turns out more of my style


----------



## howdy

I'm still enjoying the L2PS, not sure if I'm getting accustomed to there sound sign but I'm enjoying them a lot. People posted fit issues with the left side where mine is the right side but it's not to bad with the wings off. Right now I have the stock large tips and eq on rock, listening to some Korn!


----------



## d3myz

clerkpalmer said:


> Repurchased the Sony’s to compare to the APP. I should have learned my lesson the first time. The fit is a disaster at least for me. They are heavy so when moving around the weight slowly causes them to turn down. Fit is subjective of course so maybe they work for others. The sound seems overly processed or something. Can’t quite put my finger on it. While they sound full and dynamic, I don’t really enjoy it. I do think the ANC is better than the APP. They completely knocked the gym fan out where the APP did not. Not sure they serve any use case for me because if I have to be sitting still to use them I’ll just use wired IEMs. They’ve gotten a lot of praise from reviewers but the ergonomics are a deal breaker. I hope Sony can repackage them in a smaller perhaps gym friendly form factor.
> 
> I would almost always select the buds that sound better over just about anything, but in this circumstance I think the APP wins. in some ways, i prefer the sound on the APP.
> 
> I’ll give them another shot over the weekend but I’m guessing these are going to the sale forums or eBay.



I got mine for $160 so overall I really like them for their functionality and I agree it's not my favorite sound, the fit is very nice with the right tip. I use the L2pro tips and the Mpow M5 tips, they work fantastically. but I personally prefer the T1x over them. Sony hasn't seemed to work out how to get the controls right, nor have they figured out how to give us a full parametric Eq. Even with the new firmware, the connection to the app has issues and I'm always waiting for it to re-connect when I go back in to the app. I love bass, but I prefer sub-bass and punch and sony's bass feels un-natural and round, I'll never understand why I can only EQ mids and highs and I have some idiotic bass slider bar in place of 3-5 other frequency adjustments. No matter what I try eq wise, they just aren't very exciting. However, I love the ANC and ambient noise modes and if I use JVC spiral dots on them the low/mid bass is sig. reduced and the overall mids sound better.


----------



## d3myz

Timastyle said:


> How does the T1X compare to SSK?


It compares well. They are very similar except for the soundstage and highs. The T1x has a  more narrow soundstage and better highs. The SSK's mids are a bit more forward, tuning wise and imaging wise. They are certainly both worth owing IMO.


----------



## Timastyle

d3myz said:


> It compares well. They are very similar except for the soundstage and highs. The T1x has a  more narrow soundstage and better highs. The SSK's mids are a bit more forward, tuning wise and imaging wise. They are certainly both worth owing IMO.



Thanks for the comparison! I've been wanting one for the office to connect to my laptop. The SSK has caused issues with the audio on my work laptop. I'll give them a whirl. Bomakers are being sent back.


----------



## cacio (Dec 7, 2019)

I have a volume imbalance between the buds on the Bomaker SiFi for a 2nd time..

the left bud is louder than the right one

I had it already yesterday and a reset has helped. But now I have already reset 3x without a change..


And I had it with every TWS I ever had at some point.

With Realtek an Qualcomm Chipsets.

Appeares randomly when you adjust the volume. Like if a bud "ignored" the volume change.

And I also had different phones with different Android versions in that time, so I guess the phone is not the issue here.

Someone else with same experience ?

EDIT: after couple more resets and pairing with other devices , volume is synced again. really strange


----------



## hedphonz (Dec 7, 2019)

clerkpalmer said:


> So my personal profile is EXACTLY the same is yours ....
> 
> So, initial impressions are positive. Sound quality is very nice. Like I'm pretty floored. Deep bass but it's not bleeding into the mids. Nice crisp highs. Dynamic and punchy.  Up there with the best tw I've heard.
> 
> But ... the hiss is not acceptable. In fact it's awful. It's worse than the bt20. Its hiss plus static. So I guess ill contact support and find what they intend to do about it.



strangely enough my hearID graph is identical too - exactly the same, im wondering just how accurate it is ?
Anyone else getting different results/graph or is yours the same too ?

i have no hiss but too much bass and not enough clarity, maybe im expecting too much from wireless ?

edit: sorry for the huge screenshot !!


----------



## clerkpalmer

hedphonz said:


> strangely enough my hearID graph is identical too - exactly the same, im wondering just how accurate it is ?
> Anyone else getting different results/graph or is yours the same too ?
> 
> i have no hiss but too much bass and not enough clarity, maybe im expecting too much from wireless ?


Mine is the same. Lol.


----------



## clerkpalmer

hedphonz said:


> and not enough clarity, maybe im expecting too much from wireless ?


Probably. Clarity, soundstage and separation are hard to mix with Tws. Some better, some worse but probably need to go wired for good clarity.


----------



## albau (Dec 7, 2019)

clerkpalmer said:


> Mine is the same. Lol.


I dunno, guys. Am I human like you? My left ear definetly has a fit problem which I can feel. (Also to me this Personalized thing sounds very similar to Soundcore Signature, only slightly louder).


----------



## clerkpalmer

albau said:


> I dunno, guys. Am I human like you? My left ear definetly has a fit problem which I can feel. (Also to me this Personalized thing sounds very similar to Soundcore Signature, only slightly louder).


Looks like you just need a left ear transplant and all will be fine.


----------



## Caipirina

Quicky32 said:


> Are there any good sports style earbuds or over ear?


There are a lot of sport style TWS earbuds out there, depending on what sport they are probably all better suited than over ear. 
Maybe a bit more detail in your question helps us help you. 
For me I.e. : I started with the Jabra Sound Sport Elite for running, these days I can easily rock the Apple AirPods Pro for every sporty occasion.


----------



## hedphonz

albau said:


> I dunno, guys. Am I human like you? My left ear definetly has a fit problem which I can feel. (Also to me this Personalized thing sounds very similar to Soundcore Signature, only slightly louder).



wonder why it only goes to 6.4k?
i can hear up to 8k and younger people up to 16k

oh well - i cant hear any difference between soundcore signature and my personal one anyway !


----------



## wksoh

Samplingentropy said:


> On a budget, and I mean a tiny one, what can I get that sounds closest to the senns hd-25's?
> 
> Still afraid of losing theses tws things..
> Is there a thread on wired wireless?
> ...


I had the Senn Amperior which I think is similar or identical to the HD25? I also have the mpow m5 and SSK Bt03. The mpow m5 are thick sounding, some think the highs are rolled off. The Senn Amperior is very V shaped sounding, bassy and sibilant. So I think you may find the mpow dull sounding.


----------



## Samplingentropy

wksoh said:


> I had the Senn Amperior which I think is similar or identical to the HD25? I also have the mpow m5 and SSK Bt03. The mpow m5 are thick sounding, some think the highs are rolled off. The Senn Amperior is very V shaped sounding, bassy and sibilant. So I think you may find the mpow dull sounding.




To my ears the hd-25's är fairly flat sounding, at least compared to the few phones I had the chance to really use and not just try
a minute or to.
Of course I want "good" sound, but for now budget is tight to non existent.
Found the mpow and qcy t5 whitin my budget, read here that the fiil tx1 is good, but can't find it at the price people mention here.

Basically want to try  the feeling of no cable if budget allows.
Otherwise I'm looking for a replacement for my broken Kz ed9, reading that thread to =p


----------



## wksoh

Samplingentropy said:


> To my ears the hd-25's är fairly flat sounding, at least compared to the few phones I had the chance to really use and not just try
> a minute or to.
> Of course I want "good" sound, but for now budget is tight to non existent.
> Found the mpow and qcy t5 whitin my budget, read here that the fiil tx1 is good, but can't find it at the price people mention here.
> ...


Ok..I think the mpow m5 is closer sounding to Bose 700 type of sound. I like it very much but also am aware that some have complained the highs being rolled off..


----------



## ngd3 (Dec 7, 2019)

Just got the supposedly newest revision of the Liberty 2 Pros, firmware 1.17 out of the box

Hiss seems completely gone after a quick listen. I think they sound even better! I might prefer the stock EQ now. It's warmer and tames the sharper highs that some other EQs have, so with the hiss gone seems more balanced. Still great bass too


----------



## Samplingentropy

wksoh said:


> Ok..I think the mpow m5 is closer sounding to Bose 700 type of sound. I like it very much but also am aware that some have complained the highs being rolled off..



 Never tried a Bose headphone, owned a Bluetooth speaker once and was not impressed, found my friends JBL better in every aspect.

Don't know if I even will notice rolled of highs, have a bit of a hearing loss/tinnitus from standing to close to speakers for to long at a few raves back in the day ;p
Glad I still have hearing at all.


----------



## cacio (Dec 7, 2019)

d3myz said:


> Most of you won't care for 90% of my music, but there are some really well produced tracks on this playlist of you care to listen. I tried to pick songs that really test the ability of the earbud. I'd love to hear some feedback and please feel free to share any tracks with me, I added a Meraba song from a member of the group to test over produced treble in vocals, it's seems to be a stupid trend in audio engineering with newer music.
> 
> https://open.spotify.com/playlist/3Fm0OCFpU0CluKtoFGN3N9



I did saved some tracks from there even if it's not my primary music genre 

actually I think it would be nice when more people here would have a playlist link with fav songs somewhere in the profile. People who value good sound quality might also have a good taste in music


----------



## Caipirina

chinmie said:


> call me crazy, but i kinda prefer the sound of the older wf-1000x to the new one, except for the really top end treble (the older one seemed to be a bit rolled off at the very top)



Every time the 1000x are mentioned I dig them up again, give them a fresh charge and yes, marvel at the sound (for one of the very early TWS iterations, Sony nailed the sound and kudos at a first attempt of ANC)... and then I do a happy dance when I remember how little I paid for them ... and unlike both my Bose SSF, which apparently died of neglect (don't use for a few weeks at they commit battery suicide it appears), those Sonys are still going strong.


----------



## Daniel Gur

voicemaster said:


> Why you think its ugly? When you use it, it looks like 90% of tws design out there. I think tws like L2P, bose looks kinda ugly.


charging case mostly, its looks very cheaply made. Also have a bit of a problem with the FIIl logo covering the earphones.


----------



## ukbiker

For those of you in the UK, there is a sale on the Soundcore Liberty 2's at £69 on amazon.co.uk (with £20 voucher off)
I bought these and received them but unfortunately they also have the dreaded 'hiss'. I contacted Anker so let's see.
Have any of you received the L2P Pros or these without hiss, as a replacement from Anker?
Still these have amazing sound at higher volumes but lower volumes and audiobooks it's very noticable to my ears


----------



## Caipirina

ukbiker said:


> For those of you in the UK, there is a sale on the Soundcore Liberty 2's at £69 on amazon.co.uk (with £20 voucher off)
> I bought these and received them but unfortunately they also have the dreaded 'hiss'. I contacted Anker so let's see.
> Have any of you received the L2P Pros or these without hiss, as a replacement from Anker?
> Still these have amazing sound at higher volumes but lower volumes and audiobooks it's very noticable to my ears



So so so much talk about the Soundcore Liberty 2 that I really start getting curious ... well, no easy sources for me, so I am safe  
For those interested, the current deal on amazon.de is 150€ and then apply 25% off coupon ...


----------



## Caipirina

Eff Me! ANOTHER sale ALREADY? 

I told wife that 11.11. was the last day (then Black Friday happened) ... so, what is this witchcraft???


----------



## webvan

ngd3 said:


> Just got the supposedly newest revision of the Liberty 2 Pros, firmware 1.17 out of the box
> 
> Hiss seems completely gone after a quick listen. I think they sound even better! I might prefer the stock EQ now. It's warmer and tames the sharper highs that some other EQs have, so with the hiss gone seems more balanced. Still great bass too


Did you get it as a replacement with Anker stating it was the THIRD version ? 
I wonder if that 1.17 firmware would help v2 owners too....
Quick attempt at a recap : 
v1 : stuck at 1.09
v2 : stuck at 1.15
v3 : shipped with 1.17


----------



## voicemaster

Daniel Gur said:


> charging case mostly, its looks very cheaply made. Also have a bit of a problem with the FIIl logo covering the earphones.



Isn't that like 99% of tws have their logo covering the earphones? Haha. For the charging case, it only look cheap, but it is solid. Now tranya b530 case on the other hand...


----------



## Timastyle

Got the T1X last night and am enjoying it so far, but on Android, the app says the T1X controls aren't available for this app. Anyone else have issues on Android?


----------



## voicemaster

Timastyle said:


> Got the T1X last night and am enjoying it so far, but on Android, the app says the T1X controls aren't available for this app. Anyone else have issues on Android?



Yes its not supported yet on android unfortunately


----------



## Timastyle

Thanks!  I do really enjoy the sound as is though. Only thing is the comfort level for my funky shaped ears. Unlike the SSK shape, the boxy shape of these puts pressure around my ear canal that's causing some discomfort.


----------



## Quicky32 (Dec 8, 2019)

Caipirina said:


> There are a lot of sport style TWS earbuds out there, depending on what sport they are probably all better suited than over ear.
> Maybe a bit more detail in your question helps us help you.
> For me I.e. : I started with the Jabra Sound Sport Elite for running, these days I can easily rock the Apple AirPods Pro for every sporty occasion.
> 
> I need something that fits better than the LP2 and sounds good for rock, punk, and rap.  $120 budget and being able to return if I don't like the fit is a plus.  I use the elliptical, walk on the treadmill, and some weight machines...nothing too vigirous.


----------



## ngd3

webvan said:


> Did you get it as a replacement with Anker stating it was the THIRD version ?
> I wonder if that 1.17 firmware would help v2 owners too....
> Quick attempt at a recap :
> v1 : stuck at 1.09
> ...



I think your recap is probably right

They didn't confirm a 3rd version, just "newer" version. The box serial number label also calls out "Iteration 1" so maybe that's what the newest version will have to confirm. Hopeful that the second version can fix the hissing with the newest fw too


----------



## cacio (Dec 8, 2019)

https://lineageos.org/engineering/Bluetooth-SBC-XQ/

Good read for those who have good TWS without aptX or better and an Android phone which could run curstom roms


----------



## go0gle (Dec 8, 2019)

I just got 1.22 firmware on my LP2. 

I am still using my pre-order unit since the v2 or whatever didn't sound all that different


----------



## turbobb

hifi80sman said:


> Nice.  I was wondering if those were basically a MPOW T5 re-brand and it sounds like they may be close to that.


I believe they are yet another re-brand now having spent more time with them, however there are still some flaky connectivity issues, albeit not as bad as v1 of the T5's. At this price, just not worth it.



d3myz said:


> Found them on ebay. https://www.ebay.com/itm/X-mini-Liberty-True-Wireless-Earbuds-54Hrs-Playtime-Bluetooth-5-0-Dual-
> Mic/223717717815?hash=item34169d7737:g:mRgAAOSw6D5dsCTG



TBH, even at this price, it'd be hard to justify them over the revised T5 (M5?) or equivalent re-brands. The large case (while nicely finished in aluminum) is very bulky and I'm not at all enamored with the way the buds go into the case side ways (with the case laid flat) as opposed to sitting directly on the contacts with pressure applied from the top via the case lid. I suppose if you stood them up like a pack of cards then gravity can help do its share but when moving the case (with the buds in them) a slight bump would cause the case's battery to flash (indicating it jarred the buds loose and temporarily lost connectivity w/the charging contacts).

Also go this one as I'm currently on a hunt for a budget pair of IPX7/8 TWS w/phyiscal buttons as opposed to touch controls:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07ZM9GL1M/
Do not even bother with these, there's a constant hiss and the SQ is quite poor (uses SBC but with what I have to assume is a low bit rate) and there are connectivity issues. Granted they were cheap (got them for $24 w/$6 coupon) but again just not worth it at all.

Last but not least, also got the much discussed Bomaker Sifi's which are quite nice - the sound profile reminds me a bit of Sony's MDR 100AAP but with probably slightly more bass. These are worthwhile especially with the current $15 discount.


----------



## Pete7874

go0gle said:


> I just got 1.22 firmware on my LP2.
> 
> I am still using my pre-order unit since the v2 or whatever didn't sound all that different


Mine is still stuck at 1.15.


----------



## de51red

KINERA came out with a tasty TWS


----------



## voicemaster

Timastyle said:


> Thanks!  I do really enjoy the sound as is though. Only thing is the comfort level for my funky shaped ears. Unlike the SSK shape, the boxy shape of these puts pressure around my ear canal that's causing some discomfort.



Try using a longer tip. I noticed the tip that come with it is very shallow.


----------



## Timastyle

voicemaster said:


> Try using a longer tip. I noticed the tip that come with it is very shallow.


I was using the SpinFit 360. What other would you recommend?  I also tried the Auvio in large and while it's good, the sound was better with the SpinFit with more punchy bass as well. I have the SpinFit 155 in large as well but haven't tried those yet.


----------



## voicemaster

Timastyle said:


> I was using the SpinFit 360. What other would you recommend?  I also tried the Auvio in large and while it's good, the sound was better with the SpinFit with more punchy bass as well. I have the SpinFit 155 in large as well but haven't tried those yet.



I am using a modified newbee foamies. I cut it 1/2 length of the original.


----------



## MasterDomino

I noticed a new version of haylou called gt2 is this any news and has anyone tested it yet?

-Master


----------



## webvan

Pete7874 said:


> Mine is still stuck at 1.15.


Same here for my v2. Any release notes for 1.22?


----------



## go0gle

Anker doesn't provide changelogs it seems.. 

I can't notice anything different


----------



## Caipirina

MasterDomino said:


> I noticed a new version of haylou called gt2 is this any news and has anyone tested it yet?
> 
> -Master


 Bartig on scarbir gave it 5 stars, that's usually reason enough for me  
Got message today that it has arrived in my country


----------



## Caipirina

New KZ TWS !!!


----------



## Caipirina

More on the KZ-S1, for those too lazy to look them up  

2 versions DD and DD/BA hybrid. Very tasty pricing at 21/24$ 
4 colors, white / black for DD, gray and green for the hybrids. 
I see AAC listed, not AptX.
No volume control
For the first time, the buds are correctly oriented (L/R) in the case !!!  

Looks like so far only the gray model is 'available' (some others let you already order the others, but it is all 'pre-sale' ... so, who knows when that gets released)

I might wait for the green one ... kinda pretty .. not in a rush


----------



## georgelai57

Caipirina said:


> More on the KZ-S1, for those too lazy to look them up
> 
> 2 versions DD and DD/BA hybrid. Very tasty pricing at 21/24$
> 4 colors, white / black for DD, gray and green for the hybrids.
> ...


One last purchase for the year?


----------



## Caipirina (Dec 9, 2019)

georgelai57 said:


> One last purchase for the year?



I might actually wait this time around ... until the green one is officially out .. or I wait for reviews?

On the other hand, would be nice if they'd be here when I come back from winter trip   soooooo

seems like 2 store already take orders for the green model .. I have a t-shirt in that color ... coordination is everything


----------



## Samplingentropy

Caipirina said:


> I might actually wait this time around ... until the green one is officially out .. or I wait for reviews?
> 
> On the other hand, would be nice if they'd be here when I come back from winter trip   soooooo
> 
> seems like 2 store already take orders for the green model .. I have a t-shirt in that color ... coordination is everything



I can't seem to find them at all, tried both the app and the webpage. (AliExpress)
Could you give me a link?


----------



## Caipirina

Samplingentropy said:


> I can't seem to find them at all, tried both the app and the webpage. (AliExpress)
> Could you give me a link?



this link maybe?


----------



## Samplingentropy (Dec 9, 2019)

Caipirina said:


> this link maybe?



Thanks, wired though, I did the same search, got nothing..
No,still no Kz tws's, lots of unknown brands(to me)
But not a hit on Kz. =\
Found this though 
https://s.click.aliexpress.com/e/5jWnedq0
I might wanna try it since both my iem's and iPod died on me.


----------



## LordToneeus

de51red said:


> KINERA came out with a tasty TWS


Those are good looking buds, from what I can see.


----------



## LordToneeus

Caipirina said:


> I might actually wait this time around ... until the green one is officially out .. or I wait for reviews?
> 
> On the other hand, would be nice if they'd be here when I come back from winter trip   soooooo
> 
> seems like 2 store already take orders for the green model .. I have a t-shirt in that color ... coordination is everything


Oh yeah, I’m a sucker for the greens. I’ll be scouring the webs for these.


----------



## mjb152

I just checked in the UK and my L2p are still on 1.15,  no firmware upgrade so far.


----------



## Caipirina

LordToneeus said:


> Oh yeah, I’m a sucker for the greens. I’ll be scouring the webs for these.


Too late for me. Already put my order in  
In celebration I am listening to the T1 right now. Still very awesome, despite their shortcomings


----------



## georgelai57

Caipirina said:


> Too late for me. Already put my order in
> In celebration I am listening to the T1 right now. Still very awesome, despite their shortcomings


I was right. You did order. Ha Ha 
Where did you find the green one?


----------



## Quicky32

Amazon lightning deal on the Fiil T1X for $34...any good?


----------



## clerkpalmer

Caipirina said:


> New KZ TWS !!!


Any reason to believe these will improve on the last ones? That volume issue was a deal breaker.


----------



## Caipirina (Dec 9, 2019)

...


----------



## Caipirina

georgelai57 said:


> I was right. You did order. Ha Ha
> Where did you find the green one?




Here


----------



## Caipirina

clerkpalmer said:


> Any reason to believe these will improve on the last ones? That volume issue was a deal breaker.



Actually, the volume issue was not a problem just now on a 90 min walk. 

But here is hoping they have learnt a bit from the last iteration ... at least the price is now more wallet friendly


----------



## Timastyle

voicemaster said:


> I am using a modified newbee foamies. I cut it 1/2 length of the original.



I'm not a big fan of foam tips. Any silicone ones?


----------



## webvan

Caipirina said:


> Here


Nice, that page doesn't make it clear it's BA+DD and not just BA but KZ were specific about it.
So the previous version was the beta and this is the final release ? I don't think I need another pair but then who here does 

BTW did you ever get your camo X12 Ultra ? I've packed my red X12 v2/USBC and will pull them out if I ever lose one of my Lezzii !


----------



## voicemaster

Quicky32 said:


> Amazon lightning deal on the Fiil T1X for $34...any good?



Its damn good.


----------



## clerkpalmer

voicemaster said:


> Its damn good.



Damn good for $35 good or Damn good, they compete with stuff $150 and up?


----------



## TK33

Timastyle said:


> I'm not a big fan of foam tips. Any silicone ones?



Have you tried the Spinfit CP100z?  They're slightly larger than the CP360.  I just got the large CP100z tips for my MW07 Go over the weekend and it definitely was an improvement for me over the CP360s I had on them.  The CP360s are pretty short so they can fit in the smaller cases.


----------



## Caipirina

webvan said:


> BTW did you ever get your camo X12 Ultra ? I've packed my red X12 v2/USBC and will pull them out if I ever lose one of my Lezzii !



nope, dropped ordering the Ultra since I did not like the colors and don’t really need the AptX. Instead I got the black x12 pro, the ones I sweat drenched a week ago. Ever since they dried they seems to be ok sound wise again (same level on each side), but I think the battery contacts have become unreliable: I see the x12 sometimes pop up on my phone, hijacking the connection when they are in case, supposed to be charging and last time I wanted to run with them, battery was out on one side in no time. So, I kinda need to watch them when they charge and do that right before a run ... bit cumbersome 
But I keep looking for other semi in ear style buds, as this seems to be the only way around runner’s thud.


----------



## voicemaster

clerkpalmer said:


> Damn good for $35 good or Damn good, they compete with stuff $150 and up?



Both!!


----------



## webvan

Caipirina said:


> nope, dropped ordering the Ultra since I did not like the colors and don’t really need the AptX. Instead I got the black x12 pro, the ones I sweat drenched a week ago. Ever since they dried they seems to be ok sound wise again (same level on each side), but I think the battery contacts have become unreliable: I see the x12 sometimes pop up on my phone, hijacking the connection when they are in case, supposed to be charging and last time I wanted to run with them, battery was out on one side in no time. So, I kinda need to watch them when they charge and do that right before a run ... bit cumbersome
> But I keep looking for other semi in ear style buds, as this seems to be the only way around runner’s thud.


Ah that sucks, was that a really bad "sweat day" or are they not as "strong" as the Lezzii's ?
Sorry, I thought you'd ordered the camo X12 Ultra's during 11.11, maybe it was @chinmie then ? Or I just got confused, hehe...


----------



## assassin10000

Caipirina said:


> nope, dropped ordering the Ultra since I did not like the colors and don’t really need the AptX. Instead I got the black x12 pro, the ones I sweat drenched a week ago. Ever since they dried they seems to be ok sound wise again (same level on each side), but I think the battery contacts have become unreliable: I see the x12 sometimes pop up on my phone, hijacking the connection when they are in case, supposed to be charging and last time I wanted to run with them, battery was out on one side in no time. So, I kinda need to watch them when they charge and do that right before a run ... bit cumbersome
> But I keep looking for other semi in ear style buds, as this seems to be the only way around runner’s thud.



Maybe try some rubbing alcohol & a q-tip on the contacts? Could have build up of salts, oils, etc from your sweat causing poor contact...


----------



## Blueshound24

voicemaster said:


> Both!!




Maybe someone posted this already but the Fiil T1X is on sale for $33.99 on Amazon.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07YBYN3P9/


----------



## FYLegend

MasterDomino said:


> I noticed a new version of haylou called gt2 is this any news and has anyone tested it yet?
> 
> -Master


Seems to be some good reviews on it, but they just announced the GT1 Plus which has AptX (QCC3020 chip) and USB Type C.

Has anyone here tried Atta Gora Liberté? I keep seeing ads for it.


----------



## Timastyle

TK33 said:


> Have you tried the Spinfit CP100z?  They're slightly larger than the CP360.  I just got the large CP100z tips for my MW07 Go over the weekend and it definitely was an improvement for me over the CP360s I had on them.  The CP360s are pretty short so they can fit in the smaller cases.



I haven't tried them yet.  Not sure if they'll fit the T1x case.  I suppose it can be trial and error unless someone has experience with these in the T1x case.


----------



## Caipirina

webvan said:


> Ah that sucks, was that a really bad "sweat day" or are they not as "strong" as the Lezzii's ?
> Sorry, I thought you'd ordered the camo X12 Ultra's during 11.11, maybe it was @chinmie then ? Or I just got confused, hehe...


Every day in tropical climates is a ‘bad’ sweat day for me  
It has become fiddly to put them in so 2 solid red charging lights come on, but I guess just now I succeeded and I will ‘watch’ them so they are ready for run in an hour


----------



## jlo mein

Caipirina said:


> More on the KZ-S1, for those too lazy to look them up
> 
> 2 versions DD and DD/BA hybrid. Very tasty pricing at 21/24$
> 4 colors, white / black for DD, gray and green for the hybrids.
> ...



Are these going to have a terrible 3h battery life like the previous model?  All the specs seem promising, especially the price.


----------



## Caipirina (Dec 9, 2019)

jlo mein said:


> Are these going to have a terrible 3h battery life like the previous model?  All the specs seem promising, especially the price.



I would not hold my breath on long battery life for those, the T1 had a 50mAh battery, these (the new S1) have 40mAh and time is indicated as ~3h ...
personally I don't have a big issue with that as my listening sessions are usually shorter than 3h .. but I can see how this is a turn off for many


----------



## bronco1015

Anyone interested in some barely used shanling MTW100BA? i really like them, but have a good rotation with the Sennheiser MTW, anker L2P and Anbes 359.
The MTW100BA-s have been used for maybe 12 hours total. not returning because past 30 day return policy with musicTech. PM me if interested.


----------



## XGUGU

FYLegend said:


> Seems to be some good reviews on it, but they just announced the GT1 Plus which has AptX (QCC3020 chip) and USB Type C.
> 
> Has anyone here tried Atta Gora Liberté? I keep seeing ads for it.


Apparently the GT2 offers no sound improvement


----------



## actorlife

Caipirina said:


> More on the KZ-S1, for those too lazy to look them up
> 
> 2 versions DD and DD/BA hybrid. Very tasty pricing at 21/24$
> 4 colors, white / black for DD, gray and green for the hybrids.
> ...


No volume control blows, but If it does at least 5-6hrs I may bite. Green for me to match my eyes. Bahaha


----------



## chinmie

webvan said:


> Ah that sucks, was that a really bad "sweat day" or are they not as "strong" as the Lezzii's ?
> Sorry, I thought you'd ordered the camo X12 Ultra's during 11.11, maybe it was @chinmie then ? Or I just got confused, hehe...



nope, though come to think of it, i do need another open seal TWS, because i have one of my x12 to my wife, and my son asked for my other one. he said he like the sound and fit better than the Airpod

Any suggestions other than the Sabbat?the only ones that interest me are the Mifos (but doesn't have volume controls),  these models , and this Soundpeats Trueair (airpods clone with aptx and volume control)

Or should i just try the newer ANC TWSs?


----------



## Samplingentropy

Finger in the trigger now.
Narrowed my choices down to these.

Tronsmart spunky beats at 23€
Tronsmart spunky pro at 26€
Tronsmart onyx at 20€
Qcy qs2 at 18€
Kz S1 ,hybrid driver one at 23€
Mpow t6 at 28€

Prices from Ali

Can't really find the difference more than looks and price on the tronsmart models.

Any last words? Recommendations wise?
I know there are a few other recommendations,but these are the ones I can find that are both recommended here and cheap enough =p
Kz one is just new and exciting and I like the brand.
Thanks again for putting up with me =p


----------



## Caipirina

XGUGU said:


> Apparently the GT2 offers no sound improvement


Personally I prefer tactile buttons over those touch fields that always spring into action when I just want to adjust the fit  
Bartig seems to like to sound of the GT2 better than the GT1 ... my set has arrived in the country, so I will be able to form my own opinion shortly


----------



## Caipirina

Samplingentropy said:


> Finger in the trigger now.
> Narrowed my choices down to these.
> 
> Tronsmart spunky beats at 23€
> ...




Let me be the first here to say: ALL OF THEM !!!! 


ok, kidding aside, I only know the Spunky Beats and they are a great set, remind me a lot of the much praised / hyped / not always easy to find Anbes 359 / SSK
I can only suspect that the Onyx are very similar, bit cheaper. Only had the QS1, i understand sound is pretty similar, like 'em but somehow don't use them often 
And yes, those KZs are exciting, but so were the last 2 TWS they released and impressions were mixed (I love both's sound, but user experience seems to vary greatly)


----------



## Caipirina

Caipirina said:


> Every day in tropical climates is a ‘bad’ sweat day for me
> It has become fiddly to put them in so 2 solid red charging lights come on, but I guess just now I succeeded and I will ‘watch’ them so they are ready for run in an hour



And another stellar performance by those X12. They charged fully and after 2h of running they still show 60%. No connectivity drop at all, great secure fit (using both, foams and those rubber wings) 
Seems I just really have to 'watch' them charge like today to make sure they don't die on me on a run 
Best 'thud-less' runner solution IMHO


----------



## srinivasvignesh

X12 is one of those TWS out there that does not get enough attention


----------



## Samplingentropy

Caipirina said:


> Let me be the first here to say: ALL OF THEM !!!!
> 
> 
> ok, kidding aside, I only know the Spunky Beats and they are a great set, remind me a lot of the much praised / hyped / not always easy to find Anbes 359 / SSK
> ...



Ok, one more question before I pull the trigger.
Is ipx rating important? I mean the only pair on my list with any is the mpow, worth the extra few moneys?
Not gonna go in the shower with them, but I don't want them to short out on me if it rains a bit or my ears get moist from sweat.
Main use are gonna be mtb:ing so...

Man this thing with choices is hopeless =p
Not my thing at all..


----------



## Caipirina

Samplingentropy said:


> Ok, one more question before I pull the trigger.
> Is ipx rating important? I mean the only pair on my list with any is the mpow, worth the extra few moneys?
> Not gonna go in the shower with them, but I don't want them to short out on me if it rains a bit or my ears get moist from sweat.
> Main use are gonna be mtb:ing so...
> ...



The spunky buds and the onyx are both rated ipx5, which is secure enough for sweaty runs in the rain.

Those IPX ratings are a bit of a thing, IF you have like a top rating of IPX7 and still the buds 'drown', it will be hard to prove that the rating failed / or was it more water than it should have been? 
Honestly, at 20$ I would probably just cut my losses and move on. In the end it is merely a 'feel good' number. 
Unless you are profusely sweating while mtb-ing, you should be ok


----------



## Caipirina

srinivasvignesh said:


> X12 is one of those TWS out there that does not get enough attention



When I dropped in here around May 2019, both the X12 and E12 were hyped quite some. Always loved my Lezii X12 which I scored cheap the summer before from amazon warehouse, but I have connection issues with them (BT4.2) ... but the wide open soundstage of those semi in ears are fantasmic !!! I keep looking for this form factor, i even enjoy my airpod clones because of that   Heck, I am seeing a Huawei Flypod clone for 13$ i might order just for the heck of it


----------



## Samplingentropy (Dec 10, 2019)

Caipirina said:


> The spunky buds and the onyx are both rated ipx5, which is secure enough for sweaty runs in the rain.
> 
> Those IPX ratings are a bit of a thing, IF you have like a top rating of IPX7 and still the buds 'drown', it will be hard to prove that the rating failed / or was it more water than it should have been?
> Honestly, at 20$ I would probably just cut my losses and move on. In the end it is merely a 'feel good' number.
> Unless you are profusely sweating while mtb-ing, you should be ok



I do sweat like a **** training with guys half my age and are determined not to get left behind on the trail,so full on beastmode most every time we go out.
Thanks for all the advice, back to Ali and pushing the buy now button.
I need to end this indecisive ness now!

screw me, they don't do PayPal =[
Gonna try to find them on ebay
Edit: found a seller that does accept PayPal =]
Spunky beats it is then =]


----------



## Timastyle

What would you rate earbuds with the best transparency mode?


----------



## de51red

Samplingentropy said:


> Finger in the trigger now.
> Narrowed my choices down to these.
> 
> Tronsmart spunky beats at 23€
> ...



I went for Tronsmart Spunky Beats. Overall sound is kind of balanced, enough details, round vocals and tight bass, but treble don't extend much. Very low hissing when idle, plus its got aptx. Connection has been stable, signal loss is minimal. Earpiece don't stick out too much so its comfy and touch button is responsive. 

Haven't test out call quality and video/game delay but at this price nothing to complain about.


----------



## Samplingentropy (Dec 10, 2019)

I pulled the trigger! Woopwoop!

Tronsmart spunky beats is now paid for =]

Failed on finding Kz ed9's from a seller that accepted PayPal though, so now I have 10€ for something fun, any ideas?


----------



## d3myz

Timastyle said:


> What would you rate earbuds with the best transparency mode?


Between the Sony XM3's and the Air Pods Pro, for me it's the Air Pods Pro, by a large margin.


----------



## Timastyle

d3myz said:


> Between the Sony XM3's and the Air Pods Pro, for me it's the Air Pods Pro, by a large margin.



Any experience with the Audio Technica  with Sport earbuds transparency?


----------



## d3myz (Dec 10, 2019)

Hey All,  Got the Air Pods Pro today and boy am I pleasantly surprised. After testing them against the sony xm3's I have to say I think do a better job with ANC and The transparency mode is MUCH better than the sony's. The intergation with ios is exceptional and incredibly convenient having siri always listening is really nice. No volume? yea that sucks, but I just ask siri to turn it down, a feature that works on every TWS I have Except for the Sony's anyone else try this?
The APPs are lighter and less cumbersome as well.

The down side for me is the fit. They just aren't super comfortable for my left ear. I went from the M tips, to the L. and the L felt better but they hurt a bit. went back to the med and my left ear still doesn't' feel right. maybe I just have to get used to the style. Also, the sound. The Sony's completely destroy the APP's sound, so do the FIIL's, SSK/Anbes, Tranya B530, L2p, etc. I could go on. The APPs sound good, but not $250 good or even $130 good. The bass is there, but it's unexcited and there's zero sub bass. The mids are excellent and highs are good but rolled off and the sound changes based on which mode you are listening on. Soundstage is good. I thought with everything off they sounded the best. I don't love listening to music on these, but for calls, audiobooks, and all around productivity Apple has created another Really nice product. NOW, would I pay $250 for them? Absolutely not. I'd maybe pay $130-150, but I got them as a Christmas gift. Overall i'd give these a 4/5 for sound quality, 3/5 for price and 5's in every other category.


----------



## d3myz

Timastyle said:


> Any experience with the Audio Technica  with Sport earbuds transparency?


Sorry, I don't have those.


----------



## AtariPrime

This is my (short) review of the Urbanista Athens earbuds (kinda). I had planned on posting a full review of the earbuds but alas I just got them earlier today and haven’t had time to do a real review, take some nice neat pictures and everything, and share with all of you. But I decided to post this little tidbit because I ran into a small (slightly major) hiccup with the review. In short, I won’t be able to post a full review for several months. The reason, I like a small phone and well currently there aren’t really any on the market.  That means my phone is a four year old iPhone SE. And until the new iPhone SE 2 comes out  in a few months I have no plans to upgrade. Unfortunately for me that also means I’m stuck with Bluetooth 4.2 so I have a few range and bit rate issues that are impacting both the sound quality and causing cut outs. That said, the sound quality is pretty good but I wouldn’t call it overly loud. Take a nice wired headset and reduce the volume by 30% and that’s what I have.  Maybe that’s the norm with wireless earbuds, I’m not sure. The real problem is Bluetooth 4.2 (I think). Basically, if I put my phone in my pocket and standstill I’m just fine but if I start walking I start getting cut outs. It’s rather annoying. I haven’t heard of this issue in any of the reviews of the Urbanista Athens so I’m left assuming that it’s my ancient technology‘s fault. But considering that I can’t fix it for several months you’ll have to take my review with a slight grain of salt.  More to come in the next few days.


----------



## Caipirina (Dec 10, 2019)

srinivasvignesh said:


> X12 is one of those TWS out there that does not get enough attention


I was just checking if I should get a back up set


----------



## srinivasvignesh

Caipirina said:


> I was just checking if I should get a back up set



I personally have one X12 Pro as a backup at anytime as it is so easy on the ears and fantastic for calls.


----------



## webvan (Dec 10, 2019)

chinmie said:


> nope, though come to think of it, i do need another open seal TWS, because i have one of my x12 to my wife, and my son asked for my other one. he said he like the sound and fit better than the Airpod
> 
> Any suggestions other than the Sabbat?the only ones that interest me are the Mifos (but doesn't have volume controls),  these models , and this Soundpeats Trueair (airpods clone with aptx and volume control)
> 
> Or should i just try the newer ANC TWSs?



Try the Amazon Echo Buds if you get a chance (had to import mine via eBay), they're the best isolating TWSs (or wired actually) out there by a country mile with a great fit (thanks to the optional wings) and very decent SQ. The X12 or on the opposite side of the isolation spectrum of course   The X12 that you were the first to report on here last here if memory serves are still unique with their full sound, lack of thump for runners, decent mics or great battery life. I'm curious whether the X12 Ultra with their QC3020 chip sound any different.


----------



## wksoh

d3myz said:


> Just wanted to mention I got a new pair of T1x's today, they still sound great, my first pair I've burned in for 16 hours do sound more responsive and full.


Test with SSK again? Last time you mentioned you felt like moses emerging from a desert of thin mids - were you referring to the T1X or bomaker?


----------



## srinivasvignesh

webvan said:


> Try the Amazon Echo Buds if you get a chance (had to import mine via eBay), they're the best isolating TWSs (or wired actually) out there by a country mile with a great fit (thanks to the optional wings) and very decent SQ. The X12 or on the opposite side of the isolation spectrum of course   The X12 that you were the first to report on here last here if memory serves are still unique with their full sound, lack of thump for runners, decent mics or great battery life. I'm curious whether the X12 Ultra with their QC3020 chip sound any different.



I am curious to know as well if the X12 Ultras retain the same call quality.


----------



## Caipirina (Dec 10, 2019)

chinmie said:


> nope, though come to think of it, i do need another open seal TWS, because i have one of my x12 to my wife, and my son asked for my other one. he said he like the sound and fit better than the Airpod
> 
> Any suggestions other than the Sabbat?the only ones that interest me are the Mifos (but doesn't have volume controls),  these models , and this Soundpeats Trueair (airpods clone with aptx and volume control)
> 
> Or should i just try the newer ANC TWSs?



i have those Padear looking ones in blue and they are unnecessary bulky and do not come close to the x12 sound... there is another open design one I like, let me find  that link for you

These
https://s.click.aliexpress.com/e/oiQ8jqIFt

they sit very nice in ear and I do like how they sound, but also not x12 level.
Just get another x12 for 30$, see my post above (you can apply 2x2$ select coupons) 

I might get a white / blue one as backup


----------



## Caipirina

...


----------



## FYLegend

Timastyle said:


> What would you rate earbuds with the best transparency mode?


I only have Jabees Firefly Pro and Jabra 65t. Jabra 65t is far better but I've noticed the overall volume has dipped recently (probably lint in the nozzle and bass vent). Firefly Pro is just barely usable but buzzes and distorts. For some odd reason, the right earbud also cuts out whenever facing direct sunlight, but this might just be my unit.

Is there an AptX TWS that has seamless mono-mode/single ear switching? Not sure if it's because my devices don't support Qualcomm TWS+, but I'm actually quite disappointed at the E12 Ultra in this regard. It adds a duplicate Bluetooth listing when switching to the non-master bud, and on Windows 10 you can't rename it. Mono mode on the Jabees Firefly Pro and BE30 Air are both quite seamless (be warned that some other UFO TWS don't allow true mono mode).

For a long time I was using Audio-Technica IEM tips on my Firefly Pro which slightly improves the mediocre isolation, but I recently went back to stock tips and am surprised how much more treble detail there is, especially compared to the Sabbat E12 Ultra. The soundstage is more spacious but the treble does have a metallic tinge to it.

One thing I've noticed about AptX chip on the E12 Ultra compared to non-AptX TWS I've tried so far is that after the audio cuts or skips, the audio doesn't decrease in quality or desync, especially on Windows 10. With non-AptX TWS I'll often have to switch my output device to something else and back, or otherwise re-connect them.  However, the first split-second of a track is still missing on Windows 10 and on the E12 Ultra often starts out louder on the right bud for a split second before panning left.

The Jabra 75t price on Amazon.ca keeps fluctuating...


----------



## webvan

Timastyle said:


> What would you rate earbuds with the best transparency mode?


1. APP : 10
2. Amazon Echo Buds : 9
3. Libratone Track Air+ : 8
3. Jabra 65T (haven't tried the 75Ts) : 8
4. Sony WF-1000xm3 : 6
5. Sony WF-1000x : 2

Sabbat X12's "natural" transparency : 10


----------



## BigZ12 (Dec 10, 2019)

I've had the Tronsmart Spunky Beat 1st version without volume control, and now owns the new version.

My experiences:
- The new version has less mid bass, more "balanced" sound (I think)
- It still has VERY annoying blinking lights on both buds, which really light up a dark room  Annoying if I use them with my LG OLED (AptX BT) in my bedroom, with only the tv on. Can't use them there anyway, cause I get a little audio lag so...
- The volume up is 3 taps on the LEFT bud 
- Next track is on the LEFT bud 

On both versions the touch controls are really easy to activate, so there's a lot of play/pause/Siri when putting them in/taking them out of the ear.

Anyways, with the sound quality, codec support and good fit, they still are a decent set of buds for about $20.


----------



## Caipirina

Hurry if you want a cheap x12 pro, this shop I mentioned earlier is selling one design (dancing) for 24$. Select coupon still knocks out shipping 

anyone else having trouble with Ali payment? Somehow it does not let me select my CC which I have used for years with them. Will contact customer support once I am back at desktop


----------



## georgelai57

Caipirina said:


> Hurry if you want a cheap x12 pro, this shop I mentioned earlier is selling one design (dancing) for 24$. Select coupon still knocks out shipping
> 
> anyone else having trouble with Ali payment? Somehow it does not let me select my CC which I have used for years with them. Will contact customer support once I am back at desktop


Hi. Can you post a link? I can’t find them on Ali. Thanks


----------



## Caipirina (Dec 10, 2019)

georgelai57 said:


> Hi. Can you post a link? I can’t find them on Ali. Thanks


Hurry, I got the second to last 


US $24.63  30％ Off | X12 Pro TWS Bluetooth Earphones Wireless Earbuds with Wireless Charging Case 3D Bass Stereo Sound Waterproof With Charging Box
https://s.click.aliexpress.com/e/mZ7g9EJq

fire pattern now also at 24$. 3 pieces left


----------



## chinmie

Caipirina said:


> i have those Padear looking ones in blue and they are unnecessary bulky and do not come close to the x12 sound... there is another open design one I like, let me find  that link for you
> 
> These
> https://s.click.aliexpress.com/e/oiQ8jqIFt
> ...



there's also this
https://s.click.aliexpress.com/e/38ckSme8
that suspiciously almost all of the reviewers are women


----------



## Bartig

BigZ12 said:


> I've had the Tronsmart Spunky Beat 1st version without volume control, and now owns the new version.
> 
> My experiences:
> - The new version has less mid bass, more "balanced" sound (I think)
> ...


Shame that Tronsmart didn’t resolve the issues. Even while they state there are no blinking lights anymore, on the product page.


 

Meanwhile, I published my Lypertek Tevi review. Thanks for the feedback, all!


----------



## Caipirina

chinmie said:


> there's also this
> https://s.click.aliexpress.com/e/38ckSme8
> that suspiciously almost all of the reviewers are women



I had my eyes on these (the CigFun TWE, not the women) when they were 24$ during the last sales, but I was not overly convinced ...


----------



## BLUDGEON

Hey I've been reading this thread for weeks trying to learn as much as I can before buying my first pair of true wireless buds. 

I usually listen to music with V-Moda M100s which I love dearly but would like some TW in-ears for running and working out, as well as just for when I don't have the big headphones on me. 

Have spent some hours in shops trying out different ones.  Been leaning strongly towards MW07 (probably Go).  They definitely don't sound like the M100 but that would be impossible for any in-ear I think, but they do sound good and I wouldn't mind a different sound signature for variety anyway. 

The other day I was doing long A-B testing against the JBL Free-X.  The JBL had noticeably deeper bass though not quite the same impact on kick drum.

One question I have for anyone who's spent some time with the MW07 (and especially the new models)  is about connection dropouts.  It never happened to me in the shop but I read a couple reviews that mentioned that as an issue.  Is that a thing?


----------



## Caipirina

chinmie said:


> there's also this
> https://s.click.aliexpress.com/e/38ckSme8
> that suspiciously almost all of the reviewers are women



Speaking of more / other semi in ear TWE

There is (was?) another one, which I actually have (in black, not that porn-red) and they are pretty snazzy, but with the outer part so big, they don't sit too stable when moving. 
I think I had expected more regarding the sound as they allegedly have a 13mm driver.


----------



## Timastyle

webvan said:


> 1. APP : 10
> 2. Amazon Echo Buds : 9
> 3. Libratone Track Air+ : 8
> 3. Jabra 65T (haven't tried the 75Ts) : 8
> ...



Thanks!  How does the SQ rank on list above? I have the SSK and T1x for comparison. Love the lively sound of the SSK for classic rock and the T1x for when I want a little more full bass at the gym.


----------



## Caipirina (Dec 10, 2019)

chinmie said:


> there's also this
> https://s.click.aliexpress.com/e/38ckSme8
> that suspiciously almost all of the reviewers are women


 
And I JUST found another semi in ear that I have not seen before. At this price they just HAVE to suck. But also, at that price I am quite tempted!

Those are the first semi in ears I see with Powerbeat style hooks!!! This could / should be fantastic for runners! (If they deliver at least somewhat ok sound)

and a first I see in case design: double sided madness 



even has volume control on that single MFB! 

Not ordering just yet, will sleep on it first


----------



## d3myz

I just received an e-mail from Tranya. They were going to send me another pair of Rimor's because I gave them an honest review on amazon and they thought my pair might be defective. The e-mail from Ida says they are still working on debugging the sound and a new version will release at the end of Dec. This is great news, I really disliked the Rimor's tuning.


----------



## d3myz

wksoh said:


> Test with SSK again? Last time you mentioned you felt like moses emerging from a desert of thin mids - were you referring to the T1X or bomaker?


I did. My comparisons are somewhere earlier in the thread. the T1x is very similar to the ssk, with a more narrow soundstage, but I think it does a little better in the clarity dept.


----------



## d3myz

Quick update on my Air Pod Pro impressions. I decided to eq them in spotify and WOW!!!! I'm shocked how good they sound once i cranked up the bass and highs. I'm really blown away. Note, you won't get incredible bass with ANC or Transparency mode on. Now if apple would of just included an eq for them we'd have a real winner. To me they are better in every aspect than the XM3's, I will admit the ANC is very close and depending on the tips you use on the sony, the ambient clarity gets louder/softer etc. I really hope sony does a firmware to boost it. Another observation i've made is I can't get the sony's to sound great unless i'm using their tips. I don't have any spinfits to try, but the spiral dots bring more clarity but reduce the bass. The sony tips really enhance the sound of the bass, but make the mids sound thin. shrug. Anway. I think with EQ the Air Pods Pro might be worth the price point.


----------



## clerkpalmer

d3myz said:


> Quick update on my Air Pod Pro impressions. I decided to eq them in spotify and WOW!!!! I'm shocked how good they sound once i cranked up the bass and highs. I'm really blown away. Note, you won't get incredible bass with ANC or Transparency mode on. Now if apple would of just included an eq for them we'd have a real winner. To me they are better in every aspect than the XM3's, I will admit the ANC is very close and depending on the tips you use on the sony, the ambient clarity gets louder/softer etc. I really hope sony does a firmware to boost it. Another observation i've made is I can't get the sony's to sound great unless i'm using their tips. I don't have any spinfits to try, but the spiral dots bring more clarity but reduce the bass. The sony tips really enhance the sound of the bass, but make the mids sound thin. shrug. Anway. I think with EQ the Air Pods Pro might be worth the price point.


Just boost to a v shape?


----------



## tma6

d3myz said:


> Quick update on my Air Pod Pro impressions. I decided to eq them in spotify and WOW!!!! I'm shocked how good they sound once i cranked up the bass and highs. I'm really blown away. Note, you won't get incredible bass with ANC or Transparency mode on. Now if apple would of just included an eq for them we'd have a real winner. To me they are better in every aspect than the XM3's, I will admit the ANC is very close and depending on the tips you use on the sony, the ambient clarity gets louder/softer etc. I really hope sony does a firmware to boost it. Another observation i've made is I can't get the sony's to sound great unless i'm using their tips. I don't have any spinfits to try, but the spiral dots bring more clarity but reduce the bass. The sony tips really enhance the sound of the bass, but make the mids sound thin. shrug. Anway. I think with EQ the Air Pods Pro might be worth the price point.




I tried to do the same, but still felt that highs sounded weird and the bass lacked extension. I was able to compare side-by-side with the L2Ps recently and it's not even close imo. I do think the APPs sound pretty decent overall, and have an above-average midrange, but after listening to them for 14 days I just couldn't justify the price-point and returned them. The MW07s, T1Xs, MPOW T5s, and Tevis all sound better to my ears. Though as far as I can remember, I think the APPs might sound slightly better than the 1more stylish. Overall, I still really loved their convenience. They're the best for lifestyle features hands down right now and in many ways are a technological marvel. I still don't understand how they were able to get such solid noise cancelling and transparency features in such a small package.


----------



## d3myz (Dec 10, 2019)

. 





clerkpalmer said:


> Just boost to a v shape?


Pretty much.

Here’s another one that sounds good to me too




tma6 said:


> I tried to do the same, but still felt that highs sounded weird and the bass lacked extension. I was able to compare side-by-side with the L2Ps recently and it's not even close imo. I do think the APPs sound pretty decent overall, and have an above-average midrange, but after listening to them for 14 days I just couldn't justify the price-point and returned them. The MW07s, T1Xs, MPOW T5s, and Tevis all sound better to my ears. Though as far as I can remember, I think the APPs might sound slightly better than the 1more stylish. Overall, I still really loved their convenience. They're the best for lifestyle features hands down right now and in many ways are a technological marvel. I still don't understand how they were able to get such solid noise cancelling and transparency features in such a small package.


 Have you verified you have ANC and transparency off? No, they definitely don’t have the bass extension of the liberty 2 Pro, but I think they have a lot more bass on the T1X, M5, SSK etc.


----------



## d3myz

Man, i got a second pair of T1x's and they just don't sound nearly as good as my first pair. These really do need a long burn in i guess.


----------



## hifi80sman

d3myz said:


> .
> Pretty much.
> 
> Here’s another one that sounds good to me too
> ...


So, going for that neutral sound signature, eh?


----------



## tma6

d3myz said:


> .
> Pretty much.
> 
> Here’s another one that sounds good to me too
> ...



Lolll that’s a pretty extreme Spotify eq. It wasn’t really the bass that I didn’t love, it was the timbre of the highs. Cymbals in particular did not sound good to me and lacked detail. On the bass, the one weird thing I heard was that the lower they went the more the attack disappeared. It wasn’t just extension, it lacked some detail there too. Honestly though I did feel they sounded solid, just not for $250. But if you got them for free then that’s awesome


----------



## geoxile

Any idea what Qualcomm chipset the edifier tws6 is using?


----------



## d3myz

hifi80sman said:


> So, going for that neutral sound signature, eh?


HAHAHA I'm laughing my butt off right now.


----------



## d3myz

tma6 said:


> Lolll that’s a pretty extreme Spotify eq. It wasn’t really the bass that I didn’t love, it was the timbre of the highs. Cymbals in particular did not sound good to me and lacked detail. On the bass, the one weird thing I heard was that the lower they went the more the attack disappeared. It wasn’t just extension, it lacked some detail there too. Honestly though I did feel they sounded solid, just not for $250. But if you got them for free then that’s awesome


 Makes sense. I have a hard time with the highs on the MW07, and the L2pro and I do notice the small cymbals and high hats don't sound amazing, but I don't think i've found a TWS' besides maybe the FIIL, TEVI and maybe  the sony that have decent reproduction of an china or a crash cymbal.


----------



## howdy

d3myz said:


> Quick update on my Air Pod Pro impressions. I decided to eq them in spotify and WOW!!!! I'm shocked how good they sound once i cranked up the bass and highs. I'm really blown away. Note, you won't get incredible bass with ANC or Transparency mode on. Now if apple would of just included an eq for them we'd have a real winner. To me they are better in every aspect than the XM3's, I will admit the ANC is very close and depending on the tips you use on the sony, the ambient clarity gets louder/softer etc. I really hope sony does a firmware to boost it. Another observation i've made is I can't get the sony's to sound great unless i'm using their tips. I don't have any spinfits to try, but the spiral dots bring more clarity but reduce the bass. The sony tips really enhance the sound of the bass, but make the mids sound thin. shrug. Anway. I think with EQ the Air Pods Pro might be worth the price point.


Gotta get some Spinfits on the Sonys! mine sound MUCH better with the Spinfits on with minimal EQ.


----------



## Bartig

d3myz said:


> Man, i got a second pair of T1x's and they just don't sound nearly as good as my first pair. These really do need a long burn in i guess.


Just ordered one, for almost $70 on Ali. Let’s say I’m even more curious now.


----------



## Samplingentropy

Sony wf-1000x
"with some volume issues, might be helped by cleaning"
Worth something? 
I just got offered a pair for a compared to new very low price.
Are they nice soundwise? I have a hard time finding reviews that talks about anything else than anc.


----------



## voicemaster

d3myz said:


> Man, i got a second pair of T1x's and they just don't sound nearly as good as my first pair. These really do need a long burn in i guess.



Yes they do need burn in. The most noticeable difference will the bass. Once settled, the bass will tighten and the quantity will be lessen from my experience of having 2 of them.


----------



## SaveTheMantaRays

Been fiddling around with the FiiL T1X for about 4 days.  Is it pronounced "Fill" or "Phi-ill" or "phi-ull", as in audio"phi"-"le"?  Anyone got the answer?

Still trying to decide what I think overall on the SQ.

But I have to say, the connection is almost flawless. The connection is best of anything I have tried off this forum thread.  The only cut outs have been when it has made sense.

Please play around with the tips.  I finally got a tip, that I can insert the entire bud deeper into the canal.  And wow a whole new level of SQ magic. I can listen at 3-4 clicks down on volume 
than I usually do, and it sounds even better.

Unfortunately I cannot remember which old school COMPLY T's I have.

Will connect back with more impressions of TWS stuff as time rolls along


----------



## hifi80sman (Dec 10, 2019)

howdy said:


> Gotta get some Spinfits on the Sonys! mine sound MUCH better with the Spinfits on with minimal EQ.


Which SpinFit are you using?   CP100Z? CP360? I was thinking about grabbing one of those.


----------



## surfacecube (Dec 10, 2019)

Received my Bomaker Sifi that I bought yesterday for 25 euros and so far I'm really pleased with them.

Sound seems definitely better overall than the 1more Stylish to me, and it's easier to get a better fit.
If you're French like me or live in France, there's a 50% discount going on on Amazon 

EDIT: Correct link

https://www.amazon.fr/BOMAKER-Ecout...3?keywords=Bomaker+sifi&qid=1576018513&sr=8-3


----------



## XGUGU

geoxile said:


> Any idea what Qualcomm chipset the edifier tws6 is using?


Safer bet QC3020 as that's the only they're shipping to everyone at least the past 3 quarters of the year


----------



## hifi80sman

XGUGU said:


> Safer bet QC3020 as that's the only they're shipping to everyone at least the past 3 quarters of the year


FYI, I don't see any spec differences as it relates to SQ between the QCC3020 and QCC3026.


----------



## webvan

surfacecube said:


> Received my Bomaker Sifi that I bought yesterday for 25 euros and so far I'm really pleased with them.
> 
> Sound seems definitely better overall than the 1more Stylish to me, and it's easier to get a better fit.
> If you're French like me or live in France, there's a 50% discount going on on Amazon
> ...



Discount is over it seems ?
I remember passing on those in October after some here found the highs to be a tad harsh ?


----------



## surfacecube

webvan said:


> Discount is over it seems ?
> I remember passing on those in October after some here found the highs to be a tad harsh ?



Discount isn't over, I just pasted the wrong link... Thanks for pointing it out! Edited but posting it again just in case

Concerning the high, my ears have no problems with them, even EQed to make them appear a bit more

https://www.amazon.fr/BOMAKER-Ecout...3?keywords=Bomaker+sifi&qid=1576018513&sr=8-3


----------



## Spamateur

Anker sent me an email letting me know the latest version of the L2P was ready, and they also sent along a return shipping label to send back my current L2P. They said they'll ship as soon as they see the return label scanned.


----------



## Caipirina

d3myz said:


> Quick update on my Air Pod Pro impressions. I decided to eq them in spotify and WOW!!!! I'm shocked how good they sound once i cranked up the bass and highs. I'm really blown away. Note, you won't get incredible bass with ANC or Transparency mode on. Now if apple would of just included an eq for them we'd have a real winner. To me they are better in every aspect than the XM3's, I will admit the ANC is very close and depending on the tips you use on the sony, the ambient clarity gets louder/softer etc. I really hope sony does a firmware to boost it. Another observation i've made is I can't get the sony's to sound great unless i'm using their tips. I don't have any spinfits to try, but the spiral dots bring more clarity but reduce the bass. The sony tips really enhance the sound of the bass, but make the mids sound thin. shrug. Anway. I think with EQ the Air Pods Pro might be worth the price point.



This EQ talk made me look around again ... pretty musch everything in the iOS ecosystem wants money to enable EQ option (VOX, my go to player for flac i.e. wants 50$ a year for that as part of the premium subscription!)
But I found HS Player and I am testing this out right now   Sure get more bass when wanted, but will play around some more.


----------



## Synthy

has anyone got their hands on the Fiio UTWS1 and tried it?

i had a pair of TRN BT20S that were unusable for me due to the fact that the earhook was so tight that i couldn't keep the tip in my ear, then broke the mmcx connector five minutes in by accident trying to remove the iems. 

i was wondering if the Fiio UTWS1 is exactly the same with the same issues, or if it's been refined.


----------



## howdy

hifi80sman said:


> Which SpinFit are you using?   CP100Z? CP360? I was thinking about grabbing one of those.


CP100, there wasn't a Z on it when I looked them up on Amazon.


----------



## voicemaster

SaveTheMantaRays said:


> Been fiddling around with the FiiL T1X for about 4 days.  Is it pronounced "Fill" or "Phi-ill" or "phi-ull", as in audio"phi"-"le"?  Anyone got the answer?
> 
> Still trying to decide what I think overall on the SQ.
> 
> ...



Yes the fiil t1x has the best Bluetooth connection than all my other tws. I don't think it ever drop once in my experience so far. Connect and reconnect also seamless.


----------



## chinmie

srinivasvignesh said:


> X12 is one of those TWS out there that does not get enough attention



It's quite popular in my country's audio forum actually. Maybe because old school wired open earbuds are still have much love here (as you can see in my profile, i also have quite a few). Can't  beat the X12 for indoor casual use. I often wear it on family gathering so i can occasionally watch youtube without bothering anyone, but still maintain alertness so I'm  not branded anti social


----------



## chinmie

Synthy said:


> has anyone got their hands on the Fiio UTWS1 and tried it?
> 
> i had a pair of TRN BT20S that were unusable for me due to the fact that the earhook was so tight that i couldn't keep the tip in my ear, then broke the mmcx connector five minutes in by accident trying to remove the iems.
> 
> i was wondering if the Fiio UTWS1 is exactly the same with the same issues, or if it's been refined.



Have you tried to form the wires a bit by bending/flexing it? Out of the box they are also unusable to my ears, but after i form it, it fits nicely



voicemaster said:


> Yes the fiil t1x has the best Bluetooth connection than all my other tws. I don't think it ever drop once in my experience so far. Connect and reconnect also seamless.



Stop talking about the Fiil! It makes want it real bad! 
Too bad it's  not available in my country, also there's  only the older T1 on AE. Their on ear ANC BT headphones are also kinda interesting and have favorable reviews on youtube, but apparently it's been around quite some time now, don't know how it fares up to the newer tech


----------



## XGUGU (Dec 10, 2019)

hifi80sman said:


> FYI, I don't see any spec differences as it relates to SQ between the QCC3020 and QCC3026.


There's definitely not difference. Perhaps an isolated bug fix. They hàve the same specs.   But there is the QC5xxx quadcore chip, which might be reserved for larger equipment.
lets hope they develop something new now that their upcoming SD chips will support BT5.1


----------



## voicemaster

chinmie said:


> Have you tried to form the wires a bit by bending/flexing it? Out of the box they are also unusable to my ears, but after i form it, it fits nicely
> 
> 
> 
> ...





chinmie said:


> Have you tried to form the wires a bit by bending/flexing it? Out of the box they are also unusable to my ears, but after i form it, it fits nicely
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I am going back to Jakarta on Feb


----------



## chinmie

voicemaster said:


> I am going back to Jakarta on Feb



darn it..... can i "titip" one unit please?


----------



## voicemaster

chinmie said:


> darn it..... can i "titip" one unit please?



Only $37 on amazon right now, if you want I can order.


----------



## chinmie

voicemaster said:


> Only $37 on amazon right now, if you want I can order.



sure do! thanks for the help!


----------



## vurtomatic

vurtomatic said:


> Like the sound of the L2P but it feels so unwieldy and unergonomic. Those wings are pretty useless but removing them feels odd too. And yes they're ugly as hell when worn.



Got the FIIL T1X to try since it's on sale. I think I prefer it much more than the L2P. It's much easier to insert and wears much better. It also sounds airier compared to the L2P. The bass isn't as strong but it's still present, whereas the L2P sounds a bit congested now that I'm comparing it with the T1X.

Am I the odd one??


----------



## Rob E.

SaveTheMantaRays said:


> Been fiddling around with the FiiL T1X for about 4 days.  Is it pronounced "Fill" or "Phi-ill" or "phi-ull", as in audio"phi"-"le"?  Anyone got the answer?



Don't really know either. I'd guess 'Fill' or 'Feel', but as long as you can spell it right, you're GTG here.


----------



## Rob E. (Dec 11, 2019)

Caipirina said:


> This EQ talk made me look around again ... pretty musch everything in the iOS ecosystem wants money to enable EQ option (VOX, my go to player for flac i.e. wants 50$ a year for that as part of the premium subscription!)
> But I found HS Player and I am testing this out right now   Sure get more bass when wanted, but will play around some more.



For IOS only (afaik, not Android), there's no better EQ/player in the app store or anywhere else online than the Denon Audio app. Features Spline EQ with unlimited points of adjustment. Also includes TuneIn Radio streaming. Has a few useless presets that can be deleted and you can create and save and re-edit multiple curves (on the fly) for different headsets. (Tip: better to adjust in landscape mode) $1.99 to own, for anyone who can afford it. Seriously. Given quality tws earbuds, the range of improvement is amazing, but not a set-it-and-forget-it app. For tweakers only.


----------



## chinmie (Dec 12, 2019)

So, i tested the WF1000XM3 for motorcycle riding this morning, after seeing that it can manage to fit inside my flip up helmet..

Man.....the ANC is life changing (a bit of hyperbole there, but it is indeed a great experience  )
When i turn it on, it's like I'm being inside a car. I can still hear horns, people chatter, passing engine sound, etc, but it's so distant, and also the rumbling noise of the road was practically gone. The rumbling that i usually get using IEMs inside the helmet was also reduced greatly

I ended up using it without listening to music at all, just enjoying the weirdly serene riding experience.

The only negative point was when my son called me, the ANC mode was automatically switched off (or go to ambient mode?) , disrupting the quietness. I don't know if Sony can fix this with update, but i wish i can still receive phone calls with ANC mode on, but i guess it uses the same mics for voice and ANC


----------



## SoundChoice

chinmie said:


> Have you tried to form the wires a bit by bending/flexing it? Out of the box they are also unusable to my ears, but after i form it, it fits nicely



The wire is stiff and snaps back. How to form it? And after, can it be re-formed for a different IEM?


----------



## chinmie

SoundChoice said:


> The wire is stiff and snaps back. How to form it? And after, can it be re-formed for a different IEM?



just bend it on the opposite direction, when it snaps back, it would have a slightly wider curve to it. i posted this pic before but couldn't find it in the forum, so i just post it again:


 

this shows the difference after reforming it compared to the factory bend form of the package. usually after you got a nice fit of the wire on one IEM, it would still be good to use with other IEMs. if not, you can just form it again


----------



## wksoh

voicemaster said:


> Only $37 on amazon right now, if you want I can order.


Now $34.. I'm staring at it.. With my finger on the trigger..


----------



## tma6

Has anyone here ever purchased anything from hifigo? I just emailed them and they said pre-orders for the 1more anc buds are gonna ship by December 15th.


----------



## voicemaster (Dec 11, 2019)

wksoh said:


> Now $34.. I'm staring at it.. With my finger on the trigger..


$37 is with tax  seriously tho just get them.


----------



## wksoh

voicemaster said:


> $37 is with tax  seriously tho just get them.


Lucky me,.. Oregon tax free.... .. Thnx buddy


----------



## wksoh

d3myz said:


> Most of you won't care for 90% of my music, but there are some really well produced tracks on this playlist of you care to listen. I tried to pick songs that really test the ability of the earbud. I'd love to hear some feedback and please feel free to share any tracks with me, I added a Meraba song from a member of the group to test over produced treble in vocals, it's seems to be a stupid trend in audio engineering with newer music.
> 
> https://open.spotify.com/playlist/3Fm0OCFpU0CluKtoFGN3N9
> 
> ...


Woah.. I'm listening now.. Thnx!


----------



## DigDub

Aviot triple drivers TWS.






What beautiful sound these things emit! Endless layers of details! The sound is crisp clear and slightly bassy all at the same time, without resorting to tricks like pushing bright treble or muddy bass. 

The dynamic drivers do crinkle when putting the buds into the ears. 

Comfort is excellent and it is really lightweight. The buds are a tad longer than other buds but it's not too much.


----------



## srinivasvignesh

I noticed ANC switching off automatically on MW07+ as well, when a call is received.


----------



## hifi80sman

DigDub said:


> Aviot triple drivers TWS.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Nice!  Those look seriously sexy.  Doesn’t look like they’re available in the states yet, except for maybe ship from Japan.  :/


----------



## BobJS

hifi80sman said:


> Nice!  Those look seriously sexy.  Doesn’t look like they’re available in the states yet, except for maybe ship from Japan.  :/



Amazon :

https://www.amazon.com/Aviot-TE-BD21F-Bluetooth-Waterproof-Continuous/dp/B07TWTV9QY


----------



## BobJS

BobJS said:


> Amazon :
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/Aviot-TE-BD21F-Bluetooth-Waterproof-Continuous/dp/B07TWTV9QY



BTW, Advertised as triple driver, yet every description I've seen just talks about a dynamic driver and a BA.  Even in the expanded internal diagram, I can only spot 1 BA.  What am I missing?


----------



## DigDub

BobJS said:


> BTW, Advertised as triple driver, yet every description I've seen just talks about a dynamic driver and a BA.  Even in the expanded internal diagram, I can only spot 1 BA.  What am I missing?


I think they are stacked on top of each other, that's why they appear as one.


----------



## BobJS

DigDub said:


> I think they are stacked on top of each other, that's why they appear as one.



So 2 BAs or 2 dynamic drivers?


----------



## georgelai57

BobJS said:


> So 2 BAs or 2 dynamic drivers?


I believe that’s a twin BA (3rd from the left) and 1 DD. Here in Singapore it’s just a shade under USD200


----------



## georgelai57




----------



## BobJS

georgelai57 said:


> I believe that’s a twin BA (3rd from the left) and 1 DD. Here in Singapore it’s just a shade under USD200



Thanks.  Plus another ~$28 USD to ship to US.  If I were going to get one, I might just buy it on Amazon.


----------



## clerkpalmer

BobJS said:


> So 2 BAs or 2 dynamic drivers?


Would love to hear how these sound although I’m not a fan of that bullet style and they look large.


----------



## BLUDGEON

Anyone experience bluetooth dropouts with MW07+/Go?


----------



## Blueshound24

Just got he MW07. Very nice sound. Fairly balanced with no frequency overshadowing any other, but yet very dynamic. Slightly warm with clear and present mids, yet with crisp extended highs. 
My search is over, (for a while anyway

However, it still is a shallow fit similar to the L2P. Why can't manufacturers build just a little longer stem


----------



## srinivasvignesh

BLUDGEON said:


> Anyone experience bluetooth dropouts with MW07+/Go?



No dropout with my MW07 Plus at all in the last 6 weeks I have had it. However, once in a while, I did not notice when the buds would not connect automatically to my phone. I would have to put it back in the case, and then take it out again and all would be well. Once connected, no connectivity issues whatsoever.


----------



## BigZ12

clerkpalmer said:


> I think you are describing the active EQ that Apple is touting as a feature.  It is supposed to continually adjust based on fit etc.  You must have good hearing if you are noticing that.  I haven't noticed it on mine.


https://discussions.apple.com/thread/250851854?page=1
https://www.reddit.com/r/AirpodsPro...ods_pro_sound_totally_different_from_time_to/

Aaand.. you were right, this is really ruining the APP for me. Hoping for a fix in a future update!


----------



## d3myz

BigZ12 said:


> https://discussions.apple.com/thread/250851854?page=1
> https://www.reddit.com/r/AirpodsPro...ods_pro_sound_totally_different_from_time_to/
> 
> Aaand.. you were right, this is really ruining the APP for me. Hoping for a fix in a future update!


I experienced that auto eq phenomenon in the beginning when chewing, but it's gone away. However, no matter what tips I try, they just aren't very comfortable to me and audiobooks are almost unlistenable. There's like no clarity and too much midbass. super frustrating, because I really like these.


----------



## BigZ12

d3myz said:


> I experienced that auto eq phenomenon in the beginning when chewing, but it's gone away. However, no matter what tips I try, they just aren't very comfortable to me and audiobooks are almost unlistenable. There's like no clarity and too much midbass. super frustrating, because I really like these.


It's gone away? For me it's there with almost every movement. Can't move my mouth, can't walk over the floor in my apartment, at least not eating/chewing or going for a walk/jog with ANC or transparent mode on.
And yes, I have a good fit. I thought actually that was the problem, that the fit is too good... it sits deep and touches the structure of the ear canal that moves with movements like chewing/walking etc. 
Guess those movements makes the adaptive eq change the sound, making this warbles/fluctuations especially in the treble. 
Hope they listen to the advise from the guy writing the thread on the Apple Community. "Freezing" the Adaptive EQ after it's been inserting in the ear for a couple of seconds.


----------



## hifi80sman

howdy said:


> CP100, there wasn't a Z on it when I looked them up on Amazon.


I ended up going with the CP360 because the stem sits within the edges.  Should be arriving today, so we'll see what kind of magic they work on the XM3.
https://www.amazon.com/SpinFit-CP360-Patented-Silicone-Replacement/dp/B07PJNHM3Z/


----------



## Fttrb

Caipirina said:


> Surprised that not more people jump on the 18$ Haylou GT1
> I am finally giving them some time, got them to fit perfectly .. and they sound pretty awesome at that price point. Can't say I did any major A/B, but I like what I am hearing ... they are similar in size to the redmi airdots, but have touch fields instead of physical buttons (which I am kinda 'meh' about) the case is much smaller though ...  They do sound 'richer' / 'fuller' than the redmi airdots ...



Hello, have you ever tried Sony MH1/MH1C? I like bass and warm sounding earbuds. Which one should I choose? RedMi Airdots or Haylou Gt1? Or any other? Thank you.


----------



## hifi80sman

BobJS said:


> Amazon :
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/Aviot-TE-BD21F-Bluetooth-Waterproof-Continuous/dp/B07TWTV9QY


Thanks, yeah, I saw that listing.  TEC Japan basically sells Japanese imports, so their prices are much higher.  For example, the Klipsch T5 is $359 USD.


----------



## hifi80sman

Blueshound24 said:


> Just got he MW07. Very nice sound. Fairly balanced with no frequency overshadowing any other, but yet very dynamic. Slightly warm with clear and present mids, yet with crisp extended highs.
> My search is over, (for a while anyway
> 
> However, it still is a shallow fit similar to the L2P. Why can't manufacturers build just a little longer stem


Did you get the original version?

Yeah, as I was saying, the fit is likely going to be similar.  Obviously, everyone is different, but the design similarities are such that it's more likely than not the fit will be along the same lines.  You can try some SpinFit tips to see if that helps.  I have the SpinFit CP360 on the way today, so I'll be testing them out with my XM3 and MW07.


----------



## hifi80sman

Anyone try these out yet?  MEBUYZ branded stuff does not have a good track record for me, but goshdarnit, these things look cool.


----------



## d3myz

hifi80sman said:


> Anyone try these out yet?  MEBUYZ branded stuff does not have a good track record for me, but goshdarnit, these things look cool.


I actually got them free off one of my testing ads. bassy and warm. not much clarity at all. Not a fan of the fit, the bars sit right up against my ears. however they seem to be built well, not like exceptional but, the case is nice and wireless charging is cool. They come will those awful tiny silicone tips and the tips are smaller than normal, so i wasn't able to use. I think you'd probably like everything about them but the sound, it kind of sucks.


----------



## Caipirina

Fttrb said:


> Hello, have you ever tried Sony MH1/MH1C? I like bass and warm sounding earbuds. Which one should I choose? RedMi Airdots or Haylou Gt1? Or any other? Thank you.



don’t know those Sony. But I prefer the GT1 miles over the Redmi Airdots.


----------



## cletus141

Hello!  Great forum and thread!  Sounds from the reviews like I'm going to get some Mpow M5/T5's.  But I also read that the EarFun Free's are pretty good for the similar price point.  Any quick advice there?  Thanks!


----------



## webvan

surfacecube said:


> Discount isn't over, I just pasted the wrong link... Thanks for pointing it out! Edited but posting it again just in case
> 
> Concerning the high, my ears have no problems with them, even EQed to make them appear a bit more
> 
> https://www.amazon.fr/BOMAKER-Ecout...3?keywords=Bomaker+sifi&qid=1576018513&sr=8-3



Thanks ! It looks like I'll have to give a try then


----------



## hifi80sman

d3myz said:


> I actually got them free off one of my testing ads. bassy and warm. not much clarity at all. Not a fan of the fit, the bars sit right up against my ears. however they seem to be built well, not like exceptional but, the case is nice and wireless charging is cool. They come will those awful tiny silicone tips and the tips are smaller than normal, so i wasn't able to use. I think you'd probably like everything about them but the sound, it kind of sucks.


I'll pass then.  Sounds like the typical MEBUYZ crap they've been pushing out.  Good looks, good specs, garbage drivers.


----------



## jant71

We were thinkin' those new Edifier NB were gonna be  $119. At least that what was going around. Probably not. Saw the Edifier TWS6 came out on the Edifier site and that is $119 so no way the TWS NB is gonna be $119. Video said price is set at $119 and December launch. Both are seriously in doubt to me.


----------



## Fttrb

Guys anyone tried Sony MH1 or MH1C, can I find a similar sounding (warm) bluetooth earbuds?


----------



## Bartig

cletus141 said:


> Hello!  Great forum and thread!  Sounds from the reviews like I'm going to get some Mpow M5/T5's.  But I also read that the EarFun Free's are pretty good for the similar price point.  Any quick advice there?  Thanks!


The Mpow’s are way more impressive. Bigger soundstage, more articulated bass. 

Meanwhile, I ordered the KZ S1 Hybrid and KZ S1D Dynamic driver. Very curious..


----------



## wksoh (Dec 12, 2019)

Thanks to @Bartig reviews,....I Just received my Tronsmart Spunky Beat 
They are pretty good - I find the attraction in the mids. Somehow I think it can compete well with the SSK BT03.
The mids and highs of the spunky beat seems identical to the Mpow M5 but can't match Mpow M5's bass thump, power and bass detail.
The mids of Spunky beat and Mpow M5 both sound thicker than SSK BT03.

I also received my 2nd Mpow M5... they are identical to the first pair- no burn in needed. I'm happy with the consistency.
My Sonic preference is at the moment: Mpow M5 > Spunky Beat > SSK BT03 > Letscom ST-BE30 > Umidigi Upods

I'm unsure about Fiil T1x  as I find the SSK SQ already on the thin side. But I'm fickle.....


----------



## d3myz

My Nuarl NT01A's are here ! Impressions to follow.,


----------



## voicemaster

cletus141 said:


> Hello!  Great forum and thread!  Sounds from the reviews like I'm going to get some Mpow M5/T5's.  But I also read that the EarFun Free's are pretty good for the similar price point.  Any quick advice there?  Thanks!


Fiil t1x for $33.99 on amazon right now.


----------



## CocaCola15

The Jabra 75t and the Fiil tX1 both arrived today, I need to get to a meeting (yeah, that kind of meeting). 

I listened to the 75t for 20 minutes walking city streets. Love the hearthrough feature. Passive NC is fine, enough for me. Good impression OOB, but need to tweak them a bit I think. The Jabra tips are so comfy, forgot how comfy (formerly owned the 65t). Didn't take the plastic off the Fiils yet. Probably tomorrow. Note: I had $137 gift card on Amazon, so the two cost me about $85 combined. I probably would not have bought the Jabras without that incentive. Still a fan of the CA Melomania 1 and the L2P. Both probably even sound a wee bit better to me than the 75t (not decided that yet, however). But both have design issues in terms of look/fit. L2P look huge sticking out of my ears (though they don't feel like they are falling out), and the M1s do have that really giant sound tube; not as troublesome to me as others have said. I love the small foam tips that came with the M1s, but not a fan of their silicone tips.


----------



## tma6

d3myz said:


> My Nuarl NT01A's are here ! Impressions to follow.,



 whatcha think? I’m curious and impatient hahaha


----------



## kl884347

Used the Fiil T1X for the first time today at the gym.  Even though they are 'just' gym headphones, I am SO glad I got them. They are so much better than the Anker Soundcore Lites (circa early 2018) that I was using before.  You just don't know what you're missing and things have changed so much in just one year.  Thanks to all that contribute to this thread and pushed me over the edge.


----------



## Blueshound24

hifi80sman said:


> Did you get the original version?
> 
> Yeah, as I was saying, the fit is likely going to be similar.  Obviously, everyone is different, but the design similarities are such that it's more likely than not the fit will be along the same lines.  You can try some SpinFit tips to see if that helps.  I have the SpinFit CP360 on the way today, so I'll be testing them out with my XM3 and MW07.




Yes, original.
I'll dig out some Spinfits and give em a whirl.


----------



## voicemaster

kl884347 said:


> Used the Fiil T1X for the first time today at the gym.  Even though they are 'just' gym headphones, I am SO glad I got them. They are so much better than the Anker Soundcore Lites (circa early 2018) that I was using before.  You just don't know what you're missing and things have changed so much in just one year.  Thanks to all that contribute to this thread and pushed me over the edge.



Glad you like them.


----------



## Blueshound24

DigDub said:


> Aviot triple drivers TWS.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




If the pic in the ad is accurate I would struggle to agree with that.


----------



## chinmie

Blueshound24 said:


> If the pic in the ad is accurate I would struggle to agree with that.



I'd rather have a wider TWS body, but more flush to my ears from the side, than having small but too elongated outwards like that..looks like a spike to the ears 
Not to mention it is more prone to accidental dislodging (or worse, impalement) if it gets bumped in the wrong way


----------



## de51red

Gonna be broke this Christmas guys

BGVP came out with TWS, 2x Knowles BA, MMCX (yes you heard it right) for around US$93


----------



## chinmie

de51red said:


> Gonna be broke this Christmas guys
> 
> BGVP came out with TWS, 2x Knowles BA, MMCX (yes you heard it right) for around US$93



Nice! If i haven't got three sets of BT20s combo already, I'd sure be buying that. But now i think i have other goals in mind. Still, this is a sweet product concept


----------



## clerkpalmer

chinmie said:


> Nice! If i haven't got three sets of BT20s combo already, I'd sure be buying that. But now i think i have other goals in mind. Still, this is a sweet product concept


any word on availability?


----------



## Samplingentropy

[QUOTE="
Meanwhile, I ordered the KZ S1 Hybrid and KZ S1D Dynamic driver. Very curious..[/QUOTE]

Looking forward to a review =]


----------



## indigo (Dec 11, 2019)

Blueshound24 said:


> If the pic in the ad is accurate I would struggle to agree with that.


https://aviot.jp/product/TE-BD21f-pnk

Not sure how that model is using it, but it's more like how the guy is wearing it in the link. They also come with a strap so you can attach them and wear them like specs/ sunglasses (with the strap behind your neck) if you are afraid of them falling out.

So far I've had no issues with mine in terms of loose fit. Good seal, but comfortable, unlike my Senns or Jabras.


----------



## de51red

Saw it on aliexpress here 

BGVP Q2 TWS Knowles Moving Iron HIFI Music Wireless Bluetooth 5.0 Headset Sports A Custom-ear Binaural Monitor MMCX Earphones
https://s.click.aliexpress.com/e/EFeoVjVA

Not sure if it's pre-order but am getting it and post the impressions


----------



## jant71

Blue looks nice...


----------



## DigDub

Blueshound24 said:


> If the pic in the ad is accurate I would struggle to agree with that.


The usual marketing pictures which exaggerates the size. They do poke out a bit more than the general earbuds, but not by a lot. I'm also able to get a good seal with the medium tips instead of the usual large tips I need with other TWS buds, so I guess it helps too.


----------



## tracyca

Liberty pro 2 firmware update 01.22 just popped up.


----------



## SoundChoice

L2P, not a rolling beta, is exciting for all the firmware updates.


----------



## Caipirina (Dec 12, 2019)

Bartig said:


> The Mpow’s are way more impressive. Bigger soundstage, more articulated bass.
> 
> Meanwhile, I ordered the KZ S1 Hybrid and KZ S1D Dynamic driver. Very curious..



Of course you had to get both!   The reviewer who takes hoarding to the next level 

BTW, speaking of the new KZ offerings, I noticed 2 'oddities' when I poured a bit more over the info pics;
a) there is a special low latency mode on the S1 (triple click)
b) that frequency graph seems to be lacking something ... like ... BASS !!!! Or I am reading this wrong and it has ample bass, but WAY too much treble?


----------



## Caipirina

de51red said:


> Gonna be broke this Christmas guys
> 
> BGVP came out with TWS, 2x Knowles BA, MMCX (yes you heard it right) for around US$93



I am slightly confused and / or ignorant ... but why would a TWS have a MMCX connector? 

Oh, optional maybe? Bypass BT when you want to go old-school cable tethered?


----------



## de51red

Caipirina said:


> I am slightly confused and / or ignorant ... but why would a TWS have a MMCX connector?
> 
> Oh, optional maybe? Bypass BT when you want to go old-school cable tethered?



Wireless when you want convenience and wired when you wanna go full hifi maybe. That I would only know after I receive them

No IP rating and unclear codec support however


----------



## Bartig

voicemaster said:


> Fiil t1x for $33.99 on amazon right now.


Does anyone know the differences between the Fiil T1 and T1x? I ordered the first one for 65 dollars on Ali, as it doesn’t ship to the Netherlands via Amazon. 



Caipirina said:


> Of course you had to get both!   The reviewer who takes hoarding to the next level
> 
> BTW, speaking of the new KZ offerings, I noticed 2 'oddities' when I poured a bit more over the info pics;
> a) there is a special low latency mode on the S1 (triple click)
> b) that frequency graph seems to be lacking something ... like ... BASS !!!! Or I am reading this wrong and it has ample bass, but WAY too much treble?


Oh sjeesh. I mean it could be. The KZ E10 is by far the brightest sounding TWS so far.


----------



## webvan (Dec 12, 2019)

tracyca said:


> Liberty pro 2 firmware update 01.22 just popped up.


Same here, two improvements announced in the release notes :
- Improved AAC Playback
- Improved compatibility with Google Chrome Books

Nothing about hiss sadly, let's see what the sound is like now...

EDIT - wow, the hiss actually sounds LOUDER on my v2s...


----------



## PTDennis

Bartig said:


> Does anyone know the differences between the Fiil T1 and T1x? I ordered the first one for 65 dollars on Ali, as it doesn’t ship to the Netherlands via Amazon.
> 
> 
> Oh sjeesh. I mean it could be. The KZ E10 is by far the brightest sounding TWS so far.



I bought the T1X from GearB to Portugal. They also ship to the Netherlands


----------



## Pete7874

webvan said:


> Same here, two improvements announced in the release notes :
> - Improved AAC Playback
> - Improved compatibility with Google Chrome Books
> 
> ...


I just upgraded my L2P to firmware 1.22.  I can't say that I've noticed increase in hiss, but it feels like bass has gotten a major boost on mine.  I was one of the few folks that complained previously that L2P don't have enough bass.  After this upgrade, I am withdrawing my complaint.  There is still too much treble for my liking, even when using the "Treble Reducer" EQ curve.

Then again, I've been listening to some full size open back headphones recently with weak bass, so maybe in comparison the L2P now sound bassy to me.  I don't know.  Has anyone else noticed more bass after upgrade to 1.22?


----------



## CocaCola15 (Dec 12, 2019)

Listened to both the Jabra 75t and the Fiil T1x, which both arrived yesterday. Decided to return the former and keep the latter. I really can't get a secure fit with the Jabras, they have their flat, shallow proprietary tips and I don't feel like investing in Complys to fit them, Even with the largest ones, they feel loose. Sound is fine, very nice in fact. But again, fit is critical. With the Fiils, amazing OOB. Great fit, no eq required. At $33, a no-brainer. So the trio I'm keeping are the Melomania 1, the L2P and the Fiils. I have a pair of Tranyas and QCYs, both were under $40, but they are going family members. Don't need them and someone can use them. I really hope I am done. I need to stop obsessing with TW options, haha.


----------



## clerkpalmer

CocaCola15 said:


> Listened to both the Jabra 75t and the Fiil T1x, which both arrived yesterday. Decided to return the former and keep the latter. I really can't get a secure fit with the Jabras, they have their flat, shallow proprietary tips and I don't feel like investing in Complys to fit them, Even with the largest ones, they feel loose. Sound is fine, very nice in fact. But again, fit is critical. With the Fiils, amazing OOB. Great fit, no eq required. At $33, a no-brainer. So the trio I'm keeping are the Melomania 1, the L2P and the Fiils. I have a pair of Tranyas and QCYs, both were under $40, but they are going family members. Don't need them and someone can use them. I really hope I am done. I need to stop obsessing with TW options, haha.


Sound quality alone, which is better?


----------



## Quicky32

I need to make a decision soon.  I'm sick of the wires after using TWS for a few gym sessions and need to find a good fitting pair that sounds decent and has good controls or a sports style/semi wireless would be ok too.


----------



## tma6 (Dec 12, 2019)

Quicky32 said:


> I need to make a decision soon.  I'm sick of the wires after using TWS for a few gym sessions and need to find a good fitting pair that sounds decent and has good controls or a sports style/semi wireless would be ok too.



Seriously give the 1more stylish a try. Or the FiiL TX1s which are $35 rn, but the stylish have much better controls and fit great for the gym.


----------



## tma6

Just got the new replacement of the L2Ps free without returning the old version. The differences are very marginal. Slightly less bright in the highs I’d say. There’s stilly a verrrrrrry low hiss, but it is less than the previous version. The improvements are very minor overall. I do think the new 1.22 update made some little improvements to the sound on iPhone too.


----------



## CocaCola15 (Dec 12, 2019)

clerkpalmer said:


> Sound quality alone, which is better?


Well, it's close, which is nuts right? $179 vs. $33. Let's put it this way, I don't feel like I lose much enjoyment listening to the Fiil. Not enough to keep the 75t with that price difference. Yes, the 75t has some nice features, like hearthrough, but again, they feel loose in my ears, can't have that since I use TWs mainly out and about, not at home much. Use the Sony WH1000-MX3 or the Blon 03s in the house. Irony is the 65t were a former TW phone I owned and they fit great, sound was okay. So Jabra made the 75t smaller, and now they feel less secure. Just my ears I guess.


----------



## BobJS

CocaCola15 said:


> The Jabra 75t and the Fiil tX1 both arrived today, I need to get to a meeting (yeah, that kind of meeting).
> 
> I listened to the 75t for 20 minutes walking city streets. Love the hearthrough feature. Passive NC is fine, enough for me. Good impression OOB, but need to tweak them a bit I think. The Jabra tips are so comfy, forgot how comfy (formerly owned the 65t). Didn't take the plastic off the Fiils yet. Probably tomorrow. Note: I had $137 gift card on Amazon, so the two cost me about $85 combined. I probably would not have bought the Jabras without that incentive. Still a fan of the CA Melomania 1 and the L2P. Both probably even sound a wee bit better to me than the 75t (not decided that yet, however). But both have design issues in terms of look/fit. L2P look huge sticking out of my ears (though they don't feel like they are falling out), and the M1s do have that really giant sound tube; not as troublesome to me as others have said. I love the small foam tips that came with the M1s, but not a fan of their silicone tips.



The 65t were my first TWs and I liked the fit; thought they were great until I started hearing others.  Never use it anymore.  Is the sound of the 75t improved much?


----------



## Caipirina

PTDennis said:


> I bought the T1X from GearB to Portugal. They also ship to the Netherlands



Flash Sale even! 

 

But still, anyone who can get it from Amazon for 33$ and traveling to Sri Lanka soon??


----------



## Caipirina

MasterDomino said:


> I noticed a new version of haylou called gt2 is this any news and has anyone tested it yet?
> 
> -Master


Sooo, I received those GT2 today and way too early to do a sound compare, but one thing that struck me as odd, but was never mentioned before: the built into the case cable appears to be the ONLY way to charge them. There is no other USB port !!!
OOB they fit, function & sound nice and personally I prefer clicky buttons over those touch fields. The case it pretty bulky compared to gt1


----------



## Quicky32

The T1X went up in price to $45...should have pulled the trigger.


----------



## wksoh

I had the chance to test the Shure 846 (once priced at $1000) and the Creative Outlier Air... the mids and voices are so thick and throaty that it made the MPOW M5 mids sound thin.
Not to mention the SSK - which now sounds sharp next these.
I'm thinking if there is a reference headphone to "good sound" and if we're deviating from thick throaty mids in the search of sonic details..


----------



## LordToneeus

Quicky32 said:


> The T1X went up in price to $45...should have pulled the trigger.



Hang tight. They’ll go on sale again. Shame Amazon doesn’t have a price adjustment policy like Best Buy. 
After spending some time with them...man, I love the T1X’s.


----------



## kl884347

LordToneeus said:


> Hang tight. They’ll go on sale again. Shame Amazon doesn’t have a price adjustment policy like Best Buy.
> After spending some time with them...man, I love the T1X’s.


Do find the T1X a bit on the "hot" side? Maybe I just need to get used to the sound sig. (Listening from an iPhone 7)


----------



## LordToneeus

kl884347 said:


> Do find the T1X a bit on the "hot" side? Maybe I just need to get used to the sound sig. (Listening from an iPhone 7)


I know what you mean. Maybe a touch, especially after coming from the ultra-smooth L2P. But they really seem to have smoothed out after some burn-in. I really can’t recommend them highly enough, and I paid $40 for mine.


----------



## kl884347

LordToneeus said:


> I know what you mean. Maybe a touch, especially after coming from the ultra-smooth L2P. But they really seem to have smoothed out after some burn-in. I really can’t recommend them highly enough, and I paid $40 for mine.


Thanks!!! Yeah, I was so excited I haven't even burned them in yet.  Took them straight out of the box, charged them a bit, and off to the gym.


----------



## d3myz

tma6 said:


> whatcha think? I’m curious and impatient hahaha


Ok. I just wrote a post for ya.


----------



## d3myz

kl884347 said:


> Do find the T1X a bit on the "hot" side? Maybe I just need to get used to the sound sig. (Listening from an iPhone 7)


Yea, they are certainly a little hot. I have two pair, my first pair is burnt in and it sounds a lot better. I also use the bass eq.


----------



## tma6

d3myz said:


> Ok. I just wrote a post for ya.



Oh btw I did end up comparing the T1Xs to the Tevis. Imo Tevis still have a nicer top end and a wider stage, but honestly I like the T1Xs more at this point. You were right about just the fullness in the sound that becomes apparent particularly after a healthy burn in period. Also the bass is no contest. While the T1Xs are not overpowering, they have a great punch and tightness in the bass. Detail retrieval still goes w a slight edge to the Tevis, but it’s super close. I think I’m obsessed w cymbals, but still think the Tevis do the best job w them right now in the TWS space lolll.


----------



## d3myz (Dec 12, 2019)

Ok. Be patient with me here, i'm super excited about these so bear with the intensity.

Nural NTO1A Impressions. I still have a lot of time I need to spend with these and i'm sure they will need some burn in,  but after an evening  and today as I listen to them writing here's what I think.

The word that comes to mind is Silky, so far i'm in love, It's really just fun as hell to listen to these.  The highs don't sound like anything i've ever heard. they are super detailed but shimmery, the cymbals sound like actual real cymbals . It's pretty awesome. however, Overall they seem a little....hmm... not muddy, but they aren't tight as crisp and sharp like the FIIL, which after going back and forth the FIIL can be a little on the bright side at times.
the NT01A's sound quality and sound stage is EXCELLENT. I guess looser and smooth, but very detailed and well, they are almost perfect.

Bass is full and punchy, but not overbearing, awesome mids and highs, I dunno. I think they are pretty incredible, I'd like a little more bass, more like that sub rumble you get from the L2pro, but I'm not even mad,  They don't sound like anything I've listened to, so i'm kind of lost for words. They def. sound really full and immersive.

 Controls are fine. I don't like the Qualcomm chipsets or their onboard voices etc. the NT01A is almost identical to the T5/M5's onboard voice assistant. Once i got used to the buttons they were easy to use, but I don't like having the volume on only one side. Other than that pairing, resetting, firmware upgrading etc. super easy. They connect really quickly and the range is excellent. I took the wings off, they seem cheap and useless. Also, I guess I misread because I didn't' get spinfits with these (sadface) The stock eartips are nice, well made wide boar tips, but the didn't sound as good to me as the tips that come with the FIIL that sit really closely to the port or the Auvio's which is what i'm currently using. These are a LONG TWS' and insert deeply, which I have no issues with. Love the color, volume is little low for me, I am listening to the Fear Inoculum album by TOOL and 2 notches down from Max and I can go to max with no issue, when it gets busy I bump it down 3 or 4. I think these really excel for music that has more space it. When it get busy, the still sound great, but they don't perform as well with loud, hard, busy music as they do with more chill stuff where there lots of room for them to breathe and really shine.

 I'm not a music scientist, but i'd say there's a bit too much low midrange that makes the distorted guitars sound a touch sluggish? and the low bass hangs around a little longer than it should, but I've never heard a TWS' that represented the sound of cymbals as well as these do. It's seriously uncanny.


Oh I almost forgot. No hiss, or high noise floor that I can tell, but then again I never heard one on my L2pros, so it could just be my tinnitus blocking it out, but I did test them with some 0 bit tracks with the volume all the way up and I didn't hear anything. Also on that now, I ran the 20hz to 20khz and I'll be damned if these things didn't sound awesome the whole way up and down.

Final Thoughts I'm going to say it. This is the best TWS' I've heard to date. it's the only one I've heard that gives me beautiful highs and clarity, with great and I mean Great mids and plenty of bass. What i'm noticing is the Tom's and Open snare (a Snare drum with the catch off) don't decay as fast as I'd like. but my final thought is this. These are excellent especially for the money, i'd take these over the MW07, AirPods, XM3, L2pro all day long.

HARD 4.85/5   for the price point i'd like to see wireless charging on the case, a better button, that thing is hard to open. Also, better wings and the buttons are ok, but could be improved. I'm definitely going to check out the N6 when it comes out.  To all you dudes, @Luchyres and others, who raved like lunatics about these all those months ago when I joined this thread, I'm on the Nuarl train. Every song I throw at these that just impress and I have already noticed after about 4-5 hours they are sounding better in the low end.


----------



## Luchyres

d3myz said:


> Ok. Be patient with me here, i'm super excited about these so bear with the intensity.
> 
> Nural NTO1A Impressions. I still have a lot of time I need to spend with these and i'm sure they will need some burn in,  but after an evening  and today as I listen to them writing here's what I think.
> 
> ...



Thank you for sharing! 

I think I know what you mean re: sluggishness - though I've mentally chalked it up to whatever they have to do re: resonance to get the bass they do out of the 6mm driver - and that perhaps it affects the decay. 

I'm very glad you tried them, and thank you for the write-up! It looks like the N6 Pro is about to be out in 3 days or so..... if you have money burning a whole in your pocket....  

Choo, Nuarl Train, Choo!


----------



## d3myz

@Luchyres have you notice the sound spreading with burn in  out with the Nurals? I feel like they are getting wider and more responsive.


----------



## d3myz

Luchyres said:


> Thank you for sharing!
> 
> I think I know what you mean re: sluggishness - though I've mentally chalked it up to whatever they have to do re: resonance to get the bass they do out of the 6mm driver - and that perhaps it affects the decay.
> 
> ...


  That's a great way to describe it, resonance, but it really adds to the warmth. I can hear similarities in these with the 1more stylish. just a powerful well built TWS' except the stylish has to be seriously eq'd IMO to sound great.


----------



## Luchyres

d3myz said:


> @Luchyres have you notice the sound spreading with burn in  out with the Nurals? I feel like they are getting wider and more responsive.



I def wasn't paying enough attention when I first got them - but all of my comparisons (XM3, L2P, etc.) were done after they would have had a pretty long time to burn in. I'm also very pleased with the call quality given the simplicity of the tech/mic setup - is the NT01A good for calls in your experience as well? 

None of the other TWS I've tried have I been as carried away with the music as the NT01AX (and as non-fatigued). If you have an app you like, they also EQ very well if you want to manipulate them.


----------



## d3myz (Dec 12, 2019)

Luchyres said:


> I def wasn't paying enough attention when I first got them - but all of my comparisons (XM3, L2P, etc.) were done after they would have had a pretty long time to burn in. I'm also very pleased with the call quality given the simplicity of the tech/mic setup - is the NT01A good for calls in your experience as well?
> 
> None of the other TWS I've tried have I been as carried away with the music as the NT01AX (and as non-fatigued). If you have an app you like, they also EQ very well if you want to manipulate them.


I have used them for two calls, no complaints, they also seem to work well with iOS. Siri is quick and responsive. I used the app and tried to upgrad the firmware, but they were already fully updated. The app on iOS is kind of a p.o.s. but hey, Love having a firmware upgrade option. And how about the packaging? I didn't even mention how cool it is. that color, that HUGE instruction pamphlet like reading a scroll. LOL. Man, after all my toil and labors listening and testing chi-fi's TWS' I feel like this is just a supreme reward! Seriously, every song sounds great, even the ones I know don't sound that good. What the hell is in these?


----------



## tma6

d3myz said:


> Ok. Be patient with me here, i'm super excited about these so bear with the intensity.
> 
> Nural NTO1A Impressions. I still have a lot of time I need to spend with these and i'm sure they will need some burn in,  but after an evening  and today as I listen to them writing here's what I think.
> 
> ...




The cymbals sound like real cymbals!!!!!! Wow, I didn't think this day would come XD. In all seriousness though, awesome review and great description of the sound signature. Thanks for checking these out. I'm definitely thinking about them, but still might wait until the N6/N6 Pro. Been looking for a smooth, open, detailed TWS with great tonal accuracy. Many of the wired IEMs that I love have that kind of signature.


----------



## tma6 (Dec 12, 2019)

Luchyres said:


> Thank you for sharing!
> 
> I think I know what you mean re: sluggishness - though I've mentally chalked it up to whatever they have to do re: resonance to get the bass they do out of the 6mm driver - and that perhaps it affects the decay.
> 
> ...




3 days until the N6 Pro?! My poor wallet..

Edit: Actually according to their FB page the black versions of the N6/N6 Pro look like they're coming out on the 14th! 

https://www.facebook.com/nuarlcom/

Which version are you going for? They describe the pro as a flatter sound signature, while the regular N6 description makes it seem more V-shaped.


----------



## mercules

Guys, i purchased the L2P but call quality is very poor walking from train station to work. Person on other end always says my voice is low and cant hear me. It seems to do good job of reducing background noise though. Do you know if there is a way to turn mic up?


----------



## geardoc

clerkpalmer said:


> Sadly I agree with you but there isn't anything new in 2019 in the high end camp. Everything is a retread or disappointing.  The sony sucks.  The new jabra offers no sq improvement.  We are waiting on mw07 plus and new bose with ANC. All the innovations are at the chi fi level. But you are right, I have thrown away several hundred in the past months buying cheapies and while fun, they are all basically the same. Someone like Sony needs to offer a high end tw with waterproofing and LDAC. Enough already.  I dont care if the battery lasts 2 hours. Just give me what i want. For now, the best money spent is on a  bt20s plus a well matched iem.



Exactly what I did until something good comes along.     Matched up a set of Campfire Andromedas with the BT20s.    But for ease of volume control, instead of the BT20s,  I've been keeping them on the Shure RMCE-BT2 adapter.  More dangling nuisance but easier to control when I don't want to take the phone out of my pocket.  

Just for laughs I tried the Apple Airpods Pro.   A (relatively)  big letdown in audio quality, but they pair easily with an iPhone, so are convenient for that.  However, talking on the phone with the sound isolation is wierd, so they are practically useless.   The basic vanilla Apple Airpods are better for talking on the phone.


----------



## CocaCola15 (Dec 12, 2019)

clerkpalmer said:


> Sound quality alone, which is better?


Well, as they say in sports, upon further review (and returning to the 75t medium tips, from the large), I am probably going to keep the Jabras. I listened for an hour or so, and they are very nice, not as shrill as the Fill, which can be a bit peaky. Haven't burned in the Fiil at all, so that could be it. Or I can use EQ to tame the highs a bit. But since I paid $56 for the 75t (that Amazon gift card I had hanging around), I think I will keep them, so now I have four pair of TWs, still a mere piker based on the folks who hang on this thread. My issue with fit seems to have been based on trying the larger tips. You have to sort of turn them to get max fit, and that works best for me with medium tips.

Are they worth $179? Tough call considering the sound from some of the lesser priced TW phones. I mean, if I had paid $179 for them, I might have returned them. But again, price was a factor in keeping them. Of course, that gift card was a result of me returning other stuff to Amazon, so you could say I paid full price, but my twisted POV says I paid $56. Just fooling myself. Seems less painless, haha.


----------



## albau

I did my best to learn to love L2P. There're many things to like for $84 they cost me – looks, build, materials, battery, controls, app (no parametric EQ – boo!), functionality (no auto play/pause – boo!), Qi, USB-C, and last but not least, better than ChFi sound.  But after 2 weeks of honest courtship I'm sending them back to Soundcore. It took almost a week to find tips that gave me more or less secure fit and some decent isolation. And no, these were not stock ones, some strays from my drawer finally did the job. Went few times to the gym and L2P survived fine elliptical, stretching and weight lifting. But still all the time I had this nagging feeling that they are about to fall off. Again it's probably just something psychotic on my part after that prolonged fitting trauma. The ogre look in the mirrors probably also didn't help. In the end last straw was shifty SQ. Maybe because my reference in TWS are my original MW07. Not that I'm condoning it, but there's a reason why lack of M&D app isn't that critical – MW07 sound excellent as-is on flat over wide range of music styles. Same with all my favorite wired IEMs, cans and speakers. Not so with L2P – among zillion of EQ presets in their app I couldn't find a single one that would work well even with 1/3 of my typical gym playlist that MW07 would handle with aplomb in its entirety. As a result I had to jump from preset to preset which is no way for a man to spend his time at the gym or to walk over Manhattan. Granted, L2P could sound brilliant on particular track with particular preset, sometimes even better than un-EQ'ed MW07. In this respect I'd venture to say that even T5 are more consistent and are more listenable without EQ than L2P on their Flat, though overall MPOWs are definitely in a lower league SQ-wise than L2P.


----------



## tasdisr

are the T1 and T1X the same thing?


----------



## Luchyres

tma6 said:


> 3 days until the N6 Pro?! My poor wallet..
> 
> Edit: Actually according to their FB page the black versions of the N6/N6 Pro look like they're coming out on the 14th!
> 
> ...



Honestly, I appreciate a good V-Shaped signature, but I prefer the TOTL TWS that is capable and balanced, so that I can EQ it to my preferences vs try and re-EQ the lower spec "V-Shaped" one. That being said, if I get the N6 Pro and it's too analytical or can't be tuned to my preference, I'd consider returning and trying the N6. 

I did something similar with the L2P - the sound was shrill and fatiguing in the highs/recessed in the mids for me - and I still think it's a crossover BA/DD issue - so I opted to try the L2 non pro. Still didn't keep it, but I did appreciate the tuning difference over the L2P (and lower price). 

N6 Pro here I come! (MB, of course) Howabout you @d3myz and @tma6 ?


----------



## _mouse_

Sorru buyed the bomaker scifi but I see 2 scifi unit on bluetooth (one is named L) and I cannot ear together in stereo mode...if I switch from one to the other I can ear "pairing" on the disconnected one!!! Please help


----------



## chinmie

Bartig said:


> Does anyone know the differences between the Fiil T1 and T1x?





tasdisr said:


> are the T1 and T1X the same thing?



this is what i found 
https://hifigo.com/blogs/news/7-updates-in-fiil-t1-x-vs-t1-wireless-earbuds-hifigo


----------



## tma6 (Dec 12, 2019)

Luchyres said:


> Honestly, I appreciate a good V-Shaped signature, but I prefer the TOTL TWS that is capable and balanced, so that I can EQ it to my preferences vs try and re-EQ the lower spec "V-Shaped" one. That being said, if I get the N6 Pro and it's too analytical or can't be tuned to my preference, I'd consider returning and trying the N6.
> 
> I did something similar with the L2P - the sound was shrill and fatiguing in the highs/recessed in the mids for me - and I still think it's a crossover BA/DD issue - so I opted to try the L2 non pro. Still didn't keep it, but I did appreciate the tuning difference over the L2P (and lower price).
> 
> N6 Pro here I come! (MB, of course) Howabout you @d3myz and @tma6 ?



I feel similarly that a well-done V-shaped signature can be highly enjoyable, but more balanced sets that I have are generally more versatile. I do actually love the L2Ps, and now that I've received the newest updated version it seems that the overall sound has been balanced out a bit after a few hours of listening and some of that harshness has been tamed (also using Vocal Booster EQ helps a lot w that midrange). I do still feel like there is a slight lack of refinement in the upper range of the L2Ps though. I also like the Tevis for certain situations as I find their detail retrieval to be excellent for a lower cost TWS, though they are certainly more on the analytical side.

I still think like you that I'm going to start out with the N6 Pros. Given the strong reports from you and @d3myz about the great tuning on the previous version, I want to hear how their most detailed set sounds. Also, from looking at some of the early-bird prices, it seems that the Pros are only about $30 more expensive. There's also a chance I also get both for comparison and return one bc I'm insane


----------



## d3myz

tma6 said:


> Oh btw I did end up comparing the T1Xs to the Tevis. Imo Tevis still have a nicer top end and a wider stage, but honestly I like the T1Xs more at this point. You were right about just the fullness in the sound that becomes apparent particularly after a healthy burn in period. Also the bass is no contest. While the T1Xs are not overpowering, they have a great punch and tightness in the bass. Detail retrieval still goes w a slight edge to the Tevis, but it’s super close. I think I’m obsessed w cymbals, but still think the Tevis do the best job w them right now in the TWS space lolll.


Awesome! i'm really glad you compared the two. That being said, when the app for the TEVI finally drops I may have to pick some up again. It's such a shame, the sound beautiful, but they are all front and no back. My new T1x's still need a few more rounds of burn it, they are still a little hot.


----------



## d3myz

tma6 said:


> The cymbals sound like real cymbals!!!!!! Wow, I didn't think this day would come XD. In all seriousness though, awesome review and great description of the sound signature. Thanks for checking these out. I'm definitely thinking about them, but still might wait until the N6/N6 Pro. Been looking for a smooth, open, detailed TWS with great tonal accuracy. Many of the wired IEMs that I love have that kind of signature.


I'm just guessing here, but I wonder if the N6 will have a totally different sound signature than the NT01a/ax? I mean there are a few areas that they could improve on, like volume and sluggish bass, but man for the money, I'd get both. hell, i'm probably going to.


----------



## d3myz

tma6 said:


> 3 days until the N6 Pro?! My poor wallet..
> 
> Edit: Actually according to their FB page the black versions of the N6/N6 Pro look like they're coming out on the 14th!
> 
> ...


For myself, I feel like i'd like the V shaped ones better, but it depends on what Nuarl's definition of flat is and if there is an app with an EQ.


----------



## albau

One thing that L2P taught me to appreciate is Qi. So, guys, need your advise. Looking for a cheapish "travel" TWS:

< $100
Decent SQ (a-la T5 or 359)

Decent call quality
4+ hour battery
BT5
*Qi*
*USB-C*
*Volume controls*
Pocketable case
Any such beast exists?


----------



## d3myz

tma6 said:


> I feel similarly that a well-done V-shaped signature can be highly enjoyable, but more balanced sets that I have are generally more versatile. I do actually love the L2Ps, and now that I've received the newest updated version it seems that the overall sound has been balanced out a bit after a few hours of listening and some of that harshness has been tamed (also using Vocal Booster EQ helps a lot w that midrange). I do still feel like there is a slight lack of refinement in the upper range of the L2Ps though. I also like the Tevis for certain situations as I find their detail retrieval to be excellent for a lower cost TWS, though they are certainly more on the analytical side.
> 
> I still think like you that I'm going to start out with the N6 Pros. Given the strong reports from you and @d3myz about the great tuning on the previous version, I want to hear how their most detailed set sounds. Also, from looking at some of the early-bird prices, it seems that the Pros are only about $30 more expensive. There's also a chance I also get both for comparison and return one bc I'm insane


Atta Boy! Both is the ONLY way you'll know. haha.


----------



## d3myz

albau said:


> One thing that L2P taught me to appreciate is Qi. So, guys, need your advise. Looking for a cheapish "travel" TWS:
> 
> < $100
> Decent SQ (a-la T5 or 359)
> ...


Ear Fun Free checks all the boxes Except the volume controls. and the case is average in pocketability.


----------



## tma6

d3myz said:


> I'm just guessing here, but I wonder if the N6 will have a totally different sound signature than the NT01a/ax? I mean there are a few areas that they could improve on, like volume and sluggish bass, but man for the money, I'd get both. hell, i'm probably going to.



Yeah I feel like given that they've received pretty positive feedback on their first version, they're probably not going to change the tuning drastically, but we will definitely see!


----------



## jant71 (Dec 12, 2019)

de51red said:


> Wireless when you want convenience and wired when you wanna go full hifi maybe. That I would only know after I receive them
> 
> No IP rating and unclear codec support however



IP rating?? If I was you I'd be scouring the web(or the toolbox) for some type of plugs/caps to protect the MMCX from dirt, dust, and moisture. BGVP should provide some but it doesn't look like they thought of that. I'm down for the idea since I listen to some games and sports talk so FM is easier but not all players(like Sony) don't have FM over BT so you have to plug in. I also want to be okay if there is a little rain and what not. Hoods, umbrellas and all are fine but sometimes water finds a way. An ear fin attachment that covers up the MMCX port is a cool idea that kills 2 birds with one stone and adds value but BGVP is at times a kind of put stuff out and learn from it brand than one that impresses with "they thought of everything".


----------



## d3myz

Anyone know where to pre-order the Nuarl N6/pro?


----------



## jant71

d3myz said:


> Anyone know where to pre-order the Nuarl N6/pro?



Japan.  Could try Amazon.jp and see.


----------



## voicemaster

albau said:


> One thing that L2P taught me to appreciate is Qi. So, guys, need your advise. Looking for a cheapish "travel" TWS:
> 
> < $100
> Decent SQ (a-la T5 or 359)
> ...


Samsung galaxy buds I guess. It sounds is pretty good actually, call quality is pretty decent, 4+ hours battery life. Its basically checks all your lists. Oh the only thing not check is the price being $120+.


----------



## jant71

Saw Final has one coming for those Final Audio fans...





Plenty of colors...




Not anything big though. Just a ~$55 budget model with BT5.0 and SBC/AAC.


----------



## CocaCola15 (Dec 12, 2019)

BobJS said:


> The 65t were my first TWs and I liked the fit; thought they were great until I started hearing others.  Never use it anymore.  Is the sound of the 75t improved much?


Hard for me to tell, it's been more than a year since I sold off the 65t. I think so though, now that I have given the 75t a chance. At first, fit was an issue as noted. But going back to the mid-sized tips and I like it now, much more. I think I am going to keep it. I like the hearthrough mode, too But I agree, I moved on from the 65t because newer buys had better sound. Soon I am going to a side by side of the 75t with the L2P and the Melomania 1, see what I think.


----------



## tma6 (Dec 12, 2019)

jant71 said:


> Saw Final has one coming for those Final Audio fans...
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Huge fan  where did you find this?


----------



## d3myz (Dec 12, 2019)

de51red said:


> Gonna be broke this Christmas guys
> 
> BGVP came out with TWS, 2x Knowles BA, MMCX (yes you heard it right) for around US$93


Are these out yet? I'm really interested.


----------



## tma6

d3myz said:


> Well, holy crap. It looks like this place will ship to the U.S. from Japanese sites for $3.



Wait which place?? Yeah BGVP makes awesome stuff. There's too many things coming out!!


----------



## d3myz

tma6 said:


> Wait which place?? Yeah BGVP makes awesome stuff. There's too many things coming out!!


I jumped the gun. Zenmarket has a bunch of stuff they will ship from japanese sites, but TWS' don't look like they qualify, probably because they come via aircraft and lithium batteries and all that.....


----------



## chinmie

I've been using the WF1000XM3 this last week, and it really grows on me. at first i prefer the original WF1000X that captured my attention the first time i listened to it, while this one needs a little tuning down on the bass just for me to enjoy it. but after a few days, I'm starting to appreciate it's technicalities. they way i describe it's sound is pleasant. it doesn't focus on any sound signature in particular, but it presents the sound in a nice and faultless way. the only negative i can think of is the fact i need to listen to it for a few days before i noticed it has a great sound.. might be mostly because of the other earphones i have a different emphasis than the WF and I'm more accustomed to their sound. 

this is strictly a non sport TWS though.. because even walking makes a thumping noise for me. 

i love using the ANC so much at home i even use it without music on, just to focus more. 

in fact... because i love it so much (and because I'm an addict ) i bought the big brother WH1000XM3... and another Galaxy Buds in black because i also love that thing. a bit overkill, really.. i might sell my white one if my wife or son doesn't want it


----------



## de51red

d3myz said:


> Are these out yet? I'm really interested.



Contacted the shop and they said pre-order.

https://s.click.aliexpress.com/e/EFeoVjVA


----------



## robm321

I've been using the WF1000XM3 as well. It's an end game for me for wireless.


----------



## voicemaster

robm321 said:


> I've been using the WF1000XM3 as well. It's an end game for me for wireless.



Until XM4 released!


----------



## robm321

Ha


----------



## d3myz

wksoh said:


> I had the chance to test the Shure 846 (once priced at $1000) and the Creative Outlier Air... the mids and voices are so thick and throaty that it made the MPOW M5 mids sound thin.
> Not to mention the SSK - which now sounds sharp next these.
> I'm thinking if there is a reference headphone to "good sound" and if we're deviating from thick throaty mids in the search of sonic details..


I was waiting for you to finish your statement. I love throaty mids.


----------



## d3myz

robm321 said:


> I've been using the WF1000XM3 as well. It's an end game for me for wireless.


I own both and I personally think the Nuarl NT01A sounds better.


----------



## stormwrx

Wonder when we can expect these to be released:

https://fccid.io/DMOM3IETW2R

Per the internal photos, the QCC5121 chip is being used.


----------



## d3myz

So, Anker sent me a replacement supposedly Ver. 3 Revision 2 of the L2P.  How am I supposed to know it's not Ver.2 Rev. 1? It has the same exact label that my Ver 2. Rev. 1's?  and I know, I know, hoard much? Don't worry i'm giving away version 1 and 2 as gifts, once i get the replacement for #3 i'm putting it up for sale. 

Listed from bottom to top
Ver 1 from SoundCore.com
Ver. 2 Rev. 1 From Amazon (1st replacement currently in use)
Ver. 2 Rev 1 From Soundcore.com (bought on sale) Unopened
Ver. 3 Rev. 2 ? From Amazon (received today)
another unit on it's way to replace unit 3, which according to anker should be "compared" to the new unit then returned.


----------



## chinmie

d3myz said:


> I own both and I personally think the Nuarl NT01A sounds better.



i only have tried the NT01AX version, good sounding, but a bit too warm and bloomy on the midbass for me. don't know if it's the same sounding as the NT01A.

it's great that we got plenty of options these days


----------



## d3myz (Dec 13, 2019)

Just a quick observation. I just fired up the Ver. 3 Rev. 2 of the L2pro. UUUUUGGGGGHHHHH. I updated to the latest firmware 1.22. Sounds worse. I think the really screwed with the EQ settings Flat sounds terrible, sound signature lacks sub bass and has boosted mids, yet it sound more veiled. Acoustic and Piano sound a lot different. I'm going to burn these in for a while and then revisit. After hearing the Nuarl's highs the L2pro Rev. 3 almost seems like a bad science project.

Edit: just did a quick A/B vs. the Rev. 2. Rev. 2 sounds much better to me, but I can confirm the firmware did alter the EQ presets, they as well as the tuning on the new revision are diff. I'm loving the piano preset on Rev. 2. Still one of my fav. TWS'. DAT SUB BASS!!


----------



## wksoh

d3myz said:


> I was waiting for you to finish your statement. I love throaty mids.


 ya, after testing the shure 846, one tends to ask oneself why they sound so thick in the mids, almost muddy but yet was able to engulf the listener with full frequencies. When I put on the mpow M5, voices sound clearer but I think that's because some frequencies are missing. And SSK sounds even sharper.... Hmmm


----------



## DigDub

robm321 said:


> I've been using the WF1000XM3 as well. It's an end game for me for wireless.


I thought so too until the Aviot TE-BD21F appeared.


----------



## Leeco

New MPOW version is about to be released in Japan "Air by MPOW"




Here is a link https://www.paudiofes.com/2019/12/13/air-by-mpow/
Main points (translated from Japanese):
✔ Tuning for Japanese by Japanese sound experts
✔ Powerful rhythm with clear vocals and rich bass
✔ Qualcomm QCC3020 wireless chip
✔ Silicone / matte finish prevents fall and provides excellent fit
✔ Long battery life (maximum playback time 30 hours when combined with charging case)
✔ Touch sensor control
✔ Multi-pairing function (up to 8 units)
✔ Multi-point function (up to 2 units)
✔ IPX5 waterproof function
✔ Case LED scale that shows the remaining charge at a glance
✔ CVC8.0 high-performance microphone that does not convey the surrounding noise to the other party
✔ Compatible with voice recognition (Siri, Google Assistant)
✔ X5.1J (Name?)


----------



## FYLegend (Dec 13, 2019)

Leeco said:


> New MPOW version is about to be released in Japan "Air by MPOW"
> Here is a link https://www.paudiofes.com/2019/12/13/air-by-mpow/
> Main points (translated from Japanese):
> ✔ Tuning for Japanese by Japanese sound experts
> ...


X5.1J is the name of this TWS. Air is MPOW's sub-brand name.
Site forgets to mention they have USB Type C! Unfortunately their over-ear headphone announced in October is still microUSB. Tribit, Meizu, Dyplay and EKSA are some brands moving toward Type C over-ears. Earlier this year it was mostly dominated by Bluedio.

https://www.airxmpow.jp/

Anyone else still waiting for shipping info from Tronsmart? Tracking number has been empty for the past few weeks while my Dyplay Over-ear is almost here (not sure if Canada Post is just being slow as it appears to have cleared customs...)


Really digging this design but not much else at the moment. Has AptX and Wireless charging. Video seems to show a badly-rendered USB-Type-C port but it's so blocky.
https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/song-x-tws-earbuds-sleek-design-great-sound/coming_soon


----------



## tma6

d3myz said:


> Just a quick observation. I just fired up the Ver. 3 Rev. 2 of the L2pro. UUUUUGGGGGHHHHH. I updated to the latest firmware 1.22. Sounds worse. I think the really screwed with the EQ settings Flat sounds terrible, sound signature lacks sub bass and has boosted mids, yet it sound more veiled. Acoustic and Piano sound a lot different. I'm going to burn these in for a while and then revisit. After hearing the Nuarl's highs the L2pro Rev. 3 almost seems like a bad science project.
> 
> Edit: just did a quick A/B vs. the Rev. 2. Rev. 2 sounds much better to me, but I can confirm the firmware did alter the EQ presets, they as well as the tuning on the new revision are diff. I'm loving the piano preset on Rev. 2. Still one of my fav. TWS'. DAT SUB BASS!!



I can second this. Rev. 3 def has less bass than Rev. 2, and the tuning does sound slightly different. Def like Rev. 2 more so far.


----------



## Jules7

tma6 said:


> I can second this. Rev. 3 def has less bass than Rev. 2, and the tuning does sound slightly different. Def like Rev. 2 more so far.


How to tell if its a Rev 2 or Rev 3? I'm still waiting for mine from Aliexpress...


----------



## assassin10000

FYLegend said:


> Anyone else still waiting for shipping info from Tronsmart? Tracking number has been empty for the past few weeks while my Dyplay Over-ear is almost here (not sure if Canada Post is just being slow as it appears to have cleared customs...)



I got a tracking number on the last day for 'processing' the order but no dispatch or movement until dec 10th.

I've since received 2 AE packages ordered the same day.


----------



## webvan

The Bomaker came in yesterday and I've been putting it through its paces.
It's tiny and so is the case, that's a plus. I'm not sure I'd seen it mentioned it here but they come with two types of tips, the usual "bullet" types in black and flat and fin tips in clear rubber. I usually wear L size tips but with the clear M size I get a great seal if I tuck them in at the bottom of my ear, which is a bit painful in the left. The black ones in M also work and give maybe a tad more bass but they don't isolate as well and any movement of the jaw changes the sound.
The SQ is certainly all it's been cracked up to be, with a great range and a wide soundstage. I prefer them to the M5 that sound a bit dull in comparison. They remind me of the L2Ps with less sub bass and quite a bit less depth, that's what you get with an additional BA driver I suppose, and less hiss ! 

Talking of the L2Ps has anyone else noticed that they seem louder on the right ? With most of my earbuds I have the "slight" feeling that they're louder in the left channel with a stereo picture that is very slightly tilted to the left (not sure if it's my hearing or just an "impression") but the L2Ps are the only ones where the very slight tilt is on the right.


----------



## Caipirina

Anyone else getting quite the background noise / old style BT 3.0 interference noise when using their TRN BT20S ??? 

Pretty upset about that as I thought this was an upgrade. Don't have that this my regular BT20 ... 

Only way  to notice is to play music, but then put the volume all the way down (connection active, but no music) ... it's pretty terrible and reminds me of very old BT headsets ... 

Normal or defect? 

(bought 'cheap' on 11.11, tested with several IEMs .. it's not the IEMs)


----------



## chinmie

Caipirina said:


> Anyone else getting quite the background noise / old style BT 3.0 interference noise when using their TRN BT20S ???
> 
> Pretty upset about that as I thought this was an upgrade. Don't have that this my regular BT20 ...
> 
> ...



what IEMs did you try it with? do they have a fairly high sensitivity?


----------



## BLUDGEON

I've been spending a lot of time in headphone shops lately trying out various TWs.

Today was Sennheiser Momentum TW vs. MW07 Plus. 

I had previously tried the Sennheisers a couple of times and not enjoyed the sound, but decided to give them another go since the shop took a while to dig out the MW07 demo model. 

I put them in and yep, sounded pretty bad.  Then I thought, hmm, I wonder if there's an app for these.  I installed it, went to Equalizer, and saw that it was cranked all the up to the right on treble!  Changed it to something closer to what I like and wow!  Those things actually sounded great.  What I realized is that the EQ gets saved to the buds themselves, and so every time I'd tried them previously I was listening to the EQ of the last person to mess with it. 

What's really fantastic about that for me is I want to use wireless buds with my Garmin sports watch, which does not have any kind of EQ of its own.  I can actually be listening through my watch and adjust the MTW EQ with my phone at the same time.  Awesome! 

Using my own tips the fit was very solid.   Aptx low latency works as advertised, with only a barely perceptible delay in VLC (Android) compared to unusable lag with every other TW I've tried. 

The MW07 plus (or more likely Go) has been sitting at the top of my contender list for a while.  They fit me great, have the best controls (volume rocker on left bud, multi function on right), sound great, and have a cool design as well as great battery life.  However after listening to it against the Sennheiser I think I like the MTW better.  Has deeper sub-bass which I love, and the MW07 sounds just a bit harsher to me.  Lack of an app for EQ is also a bit of a bummer given my desired use case. 

Unfortunately the Sennheisers don't seem like a good buy right now with only 3ish- hour battery life and no IPX rating that I'm aware of.  Also heard stories of the case not holding a charge which would be awful.  Seems like they'll be releasing an updated model sometime in 2020 so I think it makes sense to wait and see what that's like. 

Was impressed by the 1More Stylish the other day as well.  Smooth sound with nice low bass and solid fit.  Problems were the controls were a bit haywire with my watch, and my ears started to feel a bit sore/irritated after a half hour or so.

One function I realized I want to have is the ability to power off the buds (ideally individually) without having to put them in the case since I'll want to go out and about without lugging it around, and sometimes I just want one of them in when listening to podcasts.


----------



## SoundChoice

albau said:


> One thing that L2P taught me to appreciate is Qi. So, guys, need your advise. Looking for a cheapish "travel" TWS:
> 
> < $100
> Decent SQ (a-la T5 or 359)
> ...



That kind of sounds like the Fiil T1X, though I don’t know what Qi is.


----------



## d3myz

Has anyone tried these Mee Audio X10s?


----------



## assassin10000

SoundChoice said:


> That kind of sounds like the Fiil T1X, though I don’t know what Qi is.



QI is wireless charging.


----------



## Pete7874

webvan said:


> Talking of the L2Ps has anyone else noticed that they seem louder on the right ? With most of my earbuds I have the "slight" feeling that they're louder in the left channel with a stereo picture that is very slightly tilted to the left (not sure if it's my hearing or just an "impression") but the L2Ps are the only ones where the very slight tilt is on the right.


Yes, I did notice that.  Very slight though.  On my DAP, I adjust channel balance just one notch to the left to correct it.


----------



## Quicky32

I ordered the Fiil T1X at Amazon today...$40.  It’s worth a shot for the gym.


----------



## tma6

Quicky32 said:


> I ordered the Fiil T1X at Amazon today...$40.  It’s worth a shot for the gym.



Good choice. Def find the controls weird, but sound is great and they’re good for working out.


----------



## d3myz

Cretz42 said:


> Just FYI I reached out as well and Tranya offered to refund my purchase after reviewing. Bought on Amazon but won't be here until next Tues. Thanks for the tip!
> 
> But I also have a pair coming from pre-ordering directly from Tranya. Will either return those or sell to someone on this thread who would want to try them at a deep discount from $80.


I don't know if you saw my post earlier this week, but Tranya is re-tuning the Rimor and the new version will be ready at the end of December. Ida is sending me another pair. I'm assuming that a lot of the tester feedback they got wasn't positive. (shrug)


----------



## d3myz

tma6 said:


> Good choice. Def find the controls weird, but sound is great and they’re good for working out.


You know what though? the more I use them the more intuitive I think they are. I often keep earbuds in my pocket and with touch sensors they are always turning on or playing etc. having to press twice to play is genius and who does want to tap once to turn the volume up?


----------



## Quicky32

tma6 said:


> Good choice. Def find the controls weird, but sound is great and they’re good for working out.



I use my IPod Nano controls because I’m used to it.


----------



## Fttrb

Anyone has Mpow M7?

A review says it is warm sounding with good bass.


----------



## willyk

d3myz said:


> I don't know if you saw my post earlier this week, but Tranya is re-tuning the Rimor and the new version will be ready at the end of December. Ida is sending me another pair. I'm assuming that a lot of the tester feedback they got wasn't positive. (shrug)



It will be interesting to see how Tranya tweaks the Rimor buds.  I was a tester for these and I found the current version to be excellent.
I look forward to your follow-up on them.


----------



## webvan

Pete7874 said:


> Yes, I did notice that.  Very slight though.  On my DAP, I adjust channel balance just one notch to the left to correct it.


Thanks, glad to hear it's not something wrong with my hearing !


----------



## d3myz

willyk said:


> It will be interesting to see how Tranya tweaks the Rimor buds.  I was a tester for these and I found the current version to be excellent.
> I look forward to your follow-up on them.


I thought they were borderline unlistenable for music. and for $80 none the less. There are roughly 10 other offerings around $35-50 that I gave much higher marks to, so I'm very please they are re-tuning them. a 10mm driver shouldn't lack that much bass.


----------



## Caipirina

chinmie said:


> what IEMs did you try it with? do they have a fairly high sensitivity?



i tried a few from Zs4 to ZSX ... but shall try some more just to make sure ...


----------



## Caipirina (Dec 13, 2019)

Leeco said:


> New MPOW version is about to be released in Japan "Air by MPOW"
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Interesting, especially that point ‘for Japanese by Japanese’ as I can imagine that there might be different cultural sensitivities regarding ‘what sounds good’ 

any word on price? Did not see any mention and quick googling only brought info on older wired models called ‘air’


----------



## XGUGU (Dec 13, 2019)

Anyone has experience with Track Air+? They look so sexy and have the Unicorn QC5121 chip, pass through and ANC. $189.


----------



## d3myz

Caipirina said:


> Interesting, especially that point ‘for Japanese by Japanese’ as I can imagine that there might be different cultural sensitivities regarding ‘what sounds good’
> 
> any word on price? Did not see any mention and quick googling only brought info on older wired models called ‘air’


Looks like they will be $75 U.S. and Release in late December Model is X5.1J. https://www.airxmpow.jp/products/x5-1j


----------



## d3myz

Has anyone every tried This AirFly Pro? I have a friend who has one and uses it for gaming on his PC while connected to his Air Pods Pro, says it's great.


----------



## webvan

XGUGU said:


> Anyone has experience with Track Air+? They look so sexy and have the Unicorn QC5121 chip, pass through and ANC. $189.


Yeah, had them for a month and sent them back, a few nice touches but too many issues overall, I wrote some detailed pros and cons you'll easily find with a quick search. If you're after the best isolation/ambient/SQ combo, take a look at the Amazon Echo Buds. As a side note they're available in the UK now.


----------



## clerkpalmer

webvan said:


> Yeah, had them for a month and sent them back, a few nice touches but too many issues overall, I wrote some detailed pros and cons you'll easily find with a quick search. If you're after the best isolation/ambient/SQ combo, take a look at the Amazon Echo Buds. As a side note they're available in the UK now.



Too bad.  I had been watching for these to be released in the US.  Guess they don't move the needle.


----------



## gibletzor

d3myz said:


> Has anyone every tried This AirFly Pro? I have a friend who has one and uses it for gaming on his PC while connected to his Air Pods Pro, says it's great.


I've not tried that, but I use one of these, fed from my Creative SoundBlaster Z, connected via Aptx-LL to my Fiio BTR3, to run my AKG K702s wirelessly.  Works very well for gaming.  I use them with my Liberty Pro 2 sometimes as well, but there's a barely noticeable lag that is annoying for gaming but fine for everything else.


----------



## BigZ12 (Dec 13, 2019)

Well this was fun.
Installed a beta firmware updater on my friends Samsung tablet, and updated my Tevis.
(I just have iOS devices where there's not a working firmware updater yet)
Downloaded the latest version of the Tevi app from App Store (ver 1.3.1) and finally it works. 

Pretty sure they tuned the sound to be a bit warmer with default settings, more depth in the bass. With the bass booster there's certainly more...  The EQ works flawlessly with both Apple Music and Tidal too.
I also changed the settings for next track to two clicks and volume to three clicks.
Now I love my Tevis even more 

Edit: Now I'm sure, there's definately more bass with the default settings!


----------



## tma6

BigZ12 said:


> Well this was fun.
> Installed a beta firmware updater on my friends Samsung tablet (I just have iOS devices where there not a working firmware updater yet), and updated my Tevis. Downloaded the latest version of the Tevi app from App Store (ver 1.3.1) and finally it works.
> Not sure, but pretty sure they made the sound a bit warmer with default settings, a little more depth in the bass. With the bass booster there's certainly more...  The EQ works flawlessly with both Apple Music and Tidal too.
> I also changed the settings for next track to two clicks and volume to three clicks.
> Now I love my Tevis even more



Exciting! Going to try this when I get home.


----------



## BigZ12 (Dec 13, 2019)

tma6 said:


> Exciting! Going to try this when I get home.


Do you have access to the beta updater? I got it when chatting with Lypertek on their website.

They asked me not to give other access:
"And please do not public to others first, as we are worrying there are still some issues we not found. Thank you!"

Again, no doubt they have tuned the sound a bit. The default settings sounds noticable fuller!
I asked them when giving my first feedback after testing, but I haven't got an answer yet.

Edit: The BT range is definately better as well. No dropouts anywhere in my apartment where i had dropouts before.


----------



## howdy

Jammin the L2Ps right now listening to Hail to the King via Tidal with stock tips and newest 1.22 (Piano setting) Fw and I have to say that it sounds Kick Arse!


----------



## ukbiker (Dec 13, 2019)

Wow, just received my L2 Pros as a replacement for my L2 today.  To my ears the hiss on the L2 is definitely louder,and I can tell a clear difference between the highs (clear crisp symbals) and bass (tighter and much less muddy) on the Pro versus non Pro version.  I also find the pro version doesn't need to be as loud to get enjoyment and it also appears to be able to play at higher volumes.

There is still a low hiss on the Pro I listen for it, but I noticed listening to AMR or quiet podcasts it's much less obtrusive versus L2 at very low volumes.  Maybe the hiss will always be there and this is a trade off for such a great TWS

The one I got says Iteration 1 on the box and I was able to update to firmware version 1.22, so I assume this is the Ver. 3 Rev. 2 but I'm not sure.


----------



## d3myz

BigZ12 said:


> Do you have access to the beta updater? I got it when chatting with Lypertek on their website.
> 
> They asked me not to give other access:
> "And please do not public to others first, as we are worrying there are still some issues we not found. Thank you!"
> ...


This is very cool. It's going to take a lot to get me to throw down $90 for them. How do they compare now to the FIIL T1X's low end? Can you compare them with the new settings to some of your other TWS'? Eq'd APPs, XM3, Nuarl's, L2pro? anything that's in a similar price range, maybe?


----------



## d3myz

tma6 said:


> Exciting! Going to try this when I get home.


I know you have the T1x, i'm anxiously awaiting your comparison.


----------



## BigZ12

d3myz said:


> This is very cool. It's going to take a lot to get me to throw down $90 for them. How do they compare now to the FIIL T1X's low end? Can you compare them with the new settings to some of your other TWS'? Eq'd APPs, XM3, Nuarl's, L2pro? anything that's in a similar price range, maybe?


Eq'd APP? Does the Airpods Pro have a designated EQ I don't know about? Not just the "rotten" presets under Settings-Music? I use Apple Music, and I have a 4 month free sub with Tidal HIFI, but neither have a built-in EQ as for ex. Spotify.

Other than the APP, I just have the QCY T1C, Tronsmart Spunky Beats and a broken set of Anbes 359 (the originals). SSK BT03 on the way.

The Tevis sound way fuller than the APP now. That's for sure.
They are still as detailed, but without a doubt with more deep- and midbass. The Infected Mushroom - Avratz I posted a little while back, sounds incredible. (listening to it now) Bass is deeep, and the attack in the snare drum at 6:40 is amazing. Never heard it better. (with any bt-headset that is)

Please don't use $90 because of my "review" 
I think my fit is much better than most with the form factor of the Tevis. I actually thought they had enough bass as they were (with Spinfit CP360) But, again... no doubt, they are noticable "bassier" now.

Also looking forward to what #tma6 is saying, if he have the chance to update.


----------



## tma6

Will def do a comparison btw the updated Tevis and a bunch of the stuff I have on hand once I get the chance to update


----------



## BigZ12 (Dec 13, 2019)

tma6 said:


> Will def do a comparison btw the updated Tevis and a bunch of the stuff I have on hand once I get the chance to update


I actually tested now (with default settings on both), The Tevis and my Sony WH-1000XM3 (over ear.)
The Tevis are equal to the Sonys when it comes to bass, but the Tevis sound a bit more open in the mids and highs. So no doubt, Lypertek has done some tuning...

Edit:
The Sonys connected to my Android box, Tidal Hifi and LDAC codec.
The Tevis connected my iPhone, Tidal Hifi and AAC codec.


----------



## d3myz

BigZ12 said:


> Eq'd APP? Does the Airpods Pro have a designated EQ I don't know about? Not just the "rotten" presets under Settings-Music? I use Apple Music, and I have a 4 month free sub with Tidal HIFI, but neither have a built-in EQ as for ex. Spotify.
> 
> Other than the APP, I just have the QCY T1C, Tronsmart Spunky Beats and a broken set of Anbes 359 (the originals). SSK BT03 on the way.
> 
> ...


The spotify EQ works wonders for the APPs. I'll bet you'd like the Nuarl NT01A, I just got them and they are fantastic. $108 on amazon.us


----------



## d3myz

BigZ12 said:


> I actually tested now (with default settings on both), The Tevis and my Sony WH-1000XM3 (over ear.)
> The Tevis are equal to the Sonys when it comes to bass, but the Tevis sound a bit more open in the mids and highs. So no doubt, Lypertek has done some tuning...
> 
> Edit:
> ...


Hmm.. I've never heard the OE XM3, wife won't let me open it until Christmas, but unless they are really lacking bass, I have a hard time believing that a 6mm driver puts out the same amount of bass as a 40mm driver, but hey, stranger things have happened.


----------



## howdy

How many of you have the MW07 Go? I have read here that they sound just like the main MW07s, and boy, do I miss that sound. The regular MW07s (1st iteration) right side never sat right for me. I bought 2 different ones and ended up selling them. I hear the the Go's are smaller which make me think that they just might fit me right, which would be weird if they did, I have big ears and a big head and just could not always get a good seal on the right.


----------



## clerkpalmer

howdy said:


> How many of you have the MW07 Go? I have read here that they sound just like the main MW07s, and boy, do I miss that sound. The regular MW07s (1st iteration) right side never sat right for me. I bought 2 different ones and ended up selling them. I hear the the Go's are smaller which make me think that they just might fit me right, which would be weird if they did, I have big ears and a big head and just could not always get a good seal on the right.


I had the go. I think the sound is the same. A reviewer indicated the go may have less bass due to a smaller enclosure but damned if I could tell. On fit, I actually had trouble with the go versus the regular. They didn’t stay put as well. Not entirely sure why. They are lighter.


----------



## chinmie

d3myz said:


> Hmm.. I've never heard the OE XM3, wife won't let me open it until Christmas, but unless they are really lacking bass, I have a hard time believing that a 6mm driver puts out the same amount of bass as a 40mm driver, but hey, stranger things have happened.



there's also the consideration of tuning, distance and seal quality when talking about bass size and intensity. (or the other frequency). a micro driver put just millimeters from the eardrums with a tight seal could match and even most of the time surpasses 40mm something headpone drivers in bass volume and intensity.
most of the bassiest earphones that i have or come across are IEMs


----------



## hifi80sman

d3myz said:


> Hmm.. I've never heard the OE XM3, wife won't let me open it until Christmas, but unless they are really lacking bass, I have a hard time believing that a 6mm driver puts out the same amount of bass as a 40mm driver, but hey, stranger things have happened.


Hard to compare over-ear and in-ear.  They're just different.  Over-ear XM3 has a lot of bass, especially if you push it to the max (which I never do and I love bass).    The in-ear XM3, surprisingly, can push out a lot of bass, and good bass too, and is probably in the upper tier of TWS' as far as bass.  The Sony eartip design also helps.  If you switch out the stock Sony silicone tips, you'll likely experience a drop in bass.  I'm currently running with the SpinFit 360 and they refine the sound, although I did have to increase the bass, but it sounds better overall vs. stock eartips.

In both cases, I'm satisfied with the sound and bass.

All this talk about bass...I feel like an Amazon Chi-Fi product description.


----------



## dweaver

My L2P were having some weird issue with volume so I reset them following the tutorial on the internet.

Once I did the app said there was a firmware update to 1.22. I am sure my pair is likely v2 but possibly v1 since I have had them a while. So not sure firmware update availability will dictate which revision you have.

I am enjoying my L2P with the update though. Not sure what's changed though.

My wife found my Galaxy Buds yesterday so I have been doing a comparison between the 2 a bit. Sound wise they are quite different with the Galaxy buds having a very AKG type signature while the L2P is much warmer while being more detailed. My initial reaction to the Galaxy buds was that they sounded more sterile but after a couple hours of use I found the L2P to sound boomy lol. So just very different signatures.

The buds are definitely more comfortable but I find the L2P comfortable enough for me.

I will be testing call quality next week.


----------



## tma6

BigZ12 said:


> I actually tested now (with default settings on both), The Tevis and my Sony WH-1000XM3 (over ear.)
> The Tevis are equal to the Sonys when it comes to bass, but the Tevis sound a bit more open in the mids and highs. So no doubt, Lypertek has done some tuning...
> 
> Edit:
> ...



Yo btw how did you contact Lypertek support? Can’t seem to find their email


----------



## actorlife

Anyone heard these? I have their Bluetooth stereo speaker and it sounds amazing.

DOSS ICON True Wireless Earbuds, Stereo Sound, 30 Hours Playtime, Bluetooth 5.0, One-Step Pairing, Touch Control, Passive Noise Canceling, IPX5 Waterproof for Outdoor and Indoor Activities-Black https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07VT79839/ref=cm_sw_r_sms_apa_i_FPf9DbKRFJKXF


----------



## voicemaster

actorlife said:


> Anyone heard these? I have their Bluetooth stereo speaker and it sounds amazing.
> 
> DOSS ICON True Wireless Earbuds, Stereo Sound, 30 Hours Playtime, Bluetooth 5.0, One-Step Pairing, Touch Control, Passive Noise Canceling, IPX5 Waterproof for Outdoor and Indoor Activities-Black https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07VT79839/ref=cm_sw_r_sms_apa_i_FPf9DbKRFJKXF



That looks slick!!


----------



## chinmie

actorlife said:


> Anyone heard these? I have their Bluetooth stereo speaker and it sounds amazing.
> 
> DOSS ICON True Wireless Earbuds, Stereo Sound, 30 Hours Playtime, Bluetooth 5.0, One-Step Pairing, Touch Control, Passive Noise Canceling, IPX5 Waterproof for Outdoor and Indoor Activities-Black https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07VT79839/ref=cm_sw_r_sms_apa_i_FPf9DbKRFJKXF



If I'm not mistaken,  @hifi80sman once had them/similar rebranded one, and it's not very good?
Shame...because it does look cool


----------



## blacksesame

I just got the nuarl nt01a as my first true wireless and I coupled it with jvc spiral dots and it sounds good. It's a relaxed sound signature with lots of bass that's pretty quick for wireless. Good soundstage. Good fit and buttons easy to use. When I get back home the alien wireless is waiting for me.  Excited


----------



## SoundChoice

actorlife said:


> Anyone heard these? I have their Bluetooth stereo speaker and it sounds amazing.
> 
> DOSS ICON True Wireless Earbuds, Stereo Sound, 30 Hours Playtime, Bluetooth 5.0, One-Step Pairing, Touch Control, Passive Noise Canceling, IPX5 Waterproof for Outdoor and Indoor Activities-Black https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07VT79839/ref=cm_sw_r_sms_apa_i_FPf9DbKRFJKXF



Some great reviews, but once you’ve had volume and skip control, it’s hard to go back.


----------



## Caipirina (Dec 14, 2019)

So happy that I managed to 'revive' my newer set of Bose SSF!

I started by cleaning all the contacts and noticed that on the right side, one of the 5 (Five! Why actually so many?) pins that's supposed to spring up, is stuck in an all-the-way down position and hence cannot add its magic to the charging process.




The solution? Using the old charging box (from my previous set, one side bud died of other reasons)  for the right side seems to be doing the trick! Not a portable solution, but I got both sides charged enough to successfully pair and reconnect (to new phone) and play music ...

So, anyone got any good idea how to get this stuck thingie out? (tried tweezers, but can't get a grip)


----------



## Trebor1966

BigZ12 said:


> Well this was fun.
> Installed a beta firmware updater on my friends Samsung tablet, and updated my Tevis.
> (I just have iOS devices where there's not a working firmware updater yet)
> Downloaded the latest version of the Tevi app from App Store (ver 1.3.1) and finally it works.
> ...


Is is currently possible to download the app regular from App Store and make a firmware update with apple devices?
How can you get an apple app working on android plattform?


----------



## BigZ12

Trebor1966 said:


> Is is currently possible to download the app regular from App Store and make a firmware update with apple devices?
> How can you get an apple app working on android plattform?


There is an app ready on Apple Store, but it's not working because you need to update the Tevi's firmware first.
For now It's only possible to update the firmware with an app on Android.
When you have managed to update the Tevis, then the EQ app on iOS will work.


----------



## Trebor1966 (Dec 14, 2019)

BigZ12 said:


> There is an app ready on Apple Store, but it's not working because you need to update the Tevi's firmware first.
> For now It's only possible to update the firmware with an app on Android.
> When you have managed to update the Tevis, then the EQ app on iOS will work.


Thank you for providing this information - and where can we get the app for Android?
I am hardly intersted to get asap the new firmware on TEVI to get a better bass fundament


----------



## BigZ12

tma6 said:


> Yo btw how did you contact Lypertek support? Can’t seem to find their email





Trebor1966 said:


> Thank you for providing this information - and where can we get the app for Android?


I don't want to link to their download site, because Lypertek didn't want me to. (since it's still in beta)
But I guess they will help you, if you use their chat here: https://www.lypertek.com/


----------



## actorlife

chinmie said:


> If I'm not mistaken,  @hifi80sman once had them/similar rebranded one, and it's not very good?
> Shame...because it does look cool


Hmmm that would suck because their Bluetooth speaker is fantastic. These look similar and have a great look and same price:

Asimom True Wireless Earbuds, Bluetooth V5.0, TWS Bluetooth Earphones Auto-Pair Wireless Headphones with High Definition Mic, Stereo Sound, Smart Touch,30 Hours Playtime - Black https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07TW46XYX/ref=cm_sw_r_sms_apa_i_eJo9DbJPRVTZ6


----------



## C_Lindbergh

Anyone with the Jabra 7Th, how easy is it to switch between devices given that it can be connected to 2 devices.


----------



## SoundChoice

Hi. I'm still new to TWS, and my first set was the Dudios Zeus Air, from the Super Review guy. I know he doesn't get into tons of technical data during his video reviews, but I find him a helpful source. And I agree with his take on the Du-du-dudios: great isolation, great fit, really good sound. Whoever you are, Super Review guy, thanks for the recommendation, and for being an early guide to the rabbit hole.

Because of recent buzz, my next TWS was the Fiil T1X, currently $40 on Amazon but with occasional discounts. General impression: this set caused a wow factor for me. I'm a terrible reviewer, lacking the audiophile/file/fiil ability to discern and explain what I'm hearing and generally the hearing capacity of a nursing home resident. But the music I heard (alternative rock, Grandson, Billie Eilish, Depeche Mode, CAKE, ELO, etc) was very present, around me and _alive_. The kind of sessions where you can't wait to hear what the earphone will reveal to the next song you thought you knew well. The experience I had read about the the uncomfortable T800 and bulky KPE (don't get me wrong, they're very fine IEMs). A day or two in, I can't get my fill of Fiil.

However, I will end with a question. It took a bit of tip-rolling on the T1xs, but I finally landed on the Spinfits and a bit of jiggling and learning how to seat it in the ear to get a good seal. After finding the fit -- and yes, what they say about the Bluetooth connectivity on these things is true -- now they don't fit in the charging case. I mean, they fit, but the lid doesn't quite close all the way to turn on the red case lights. This leads to the earbuds not getting charged automagically and rude message in my ear saying "charge headset" when I thought they were  charged after resting in the case all night. 

This can't be an isolated (pardon the pun) problem... how do you all deal with tips that make the earbud not fit the charging case well? 

Oh, and how do you know when the T1x case needs charging?

Thanks for reading, and have a musiclicious day.


----------



## d3myz

The Nuarl N6/pro is out. anyone know where I can get it in the U.S.?


----------



## Luchyres

d3myz said:


> The Nuarl N6/pro is out. anyone know where I can get it in the U.S.?


I'm thinking Amazon is best bet - so I'm just checking periodically.


----------



## d3myz

Luchyres said:


> I'm thinking Amazon is best bet - so I'm just checking periodically.


Good call. i'll keep checking as well.


----------



## tma6

d3myz said:


> Good call. i'll keep checking as well.



yeah I’ve been looking all day. Seems like it’s not quite out on Amazon yet. Some of the amazon listings said in stock on Dec. 15th so might not be fully available till tomorrow


----------



## Putshoesonthatmonster

Deal for the UK, liberty 2 pro £79.99 

https://www.hotukdeals.com/deals/anker-soundcore-liberty-2-pro-lightning-deal-7999-3364087


----------



## jant71

Saw the Nuarl NT01AX is $89 on Amazon right now including Prime one-day. Seems like a nice deal worth mentioning but I only want the newer 3 button Nuarl.


----------



## Trebor1966 (Dec 14, 2019)

BigZ12 said:


> I don't want to link to their download site, because Lypertek didn't want me to. (since it's still in beta)
> But I guess they will help you, if you use their chat here: https://www.lypertek.com/


Lypertek provides me also today with the beta firmware. I can confirm that this update takes the LEVI to the next level. Normally i use TOTL wired IEMs but now there is a strong competitor with this juwel. The settings with Bass Boost or Neutral (Customized flat) with foam tips work for me the best.
I think Crinacle would find here the first A grade TWS.


----------



## jant71

d3myz said:


> The Nuarl N6/pro is out. anyone know where I can get it in the U.S.?



Ask these people what they know...
https://www.amazon.com/sp?_encoding...derID=&seller=A32RVZ3745AKRU&tab=&vasStoreID=

Would think though that they are supplying the home crowd so outside of Japan won't be till after the new year.


----------



## tma6

Is this site legit?

https://store.beforward.jp/search/Audio/Headphones/?search=nuarl+n6


----------



## oHUTCHYo

Can you guys please give me a head start on my research and narrow down me some choices please?

In short:

Usage: Gym
Pairing: iPhone XS
Music: Techno
Current: Sansa Clip+ and Sony XB90EX
Sound Signature: Bass!
Budget: £150-200?

What wireless models would give me what I would like? Tempted to make the jump but scared of being disappointed versus my existing setup - will anything compete?


----------



## Putshoesonthatmonster

Trebor1966 said:


> Lypertek provide me also today with the beta firmware. I can confirm that this update take the LEVI to the next level. Normally i use TOTL wired IEMs but now there is a strong competitor with this juwel. The settings with Bass Boost or Neutral (Customized flat) with foam tips work for me the best.
> I think Crinacle would find here the first A grade TWS.



I've just ordered the liberty pro 2, I have the tevi too. What's the update as I'm going to keep 1


----------



## tma6

oHUTCHYo said:


> Can you guys please give me a head start on my research and narrow down me some choices please?
> 
> In short:
> 
> ...



I mean if you can spend $50 more than you should probably just get the Powerbeats Pro.


----------



## LordToneeus

tma6 said:


> I mean if you can spend $50 more than you should probably just get the Powerbeats Pro.


You can get refurbed PBPro from Best Buy for $139 right now.


----------



## Quicky32

What do the Fiil T1X come with for tips?  I tend to prefer foam...


----------



## BigZ12

*If you update the Lypertek Tevis, DON'T reset them afterwards!!! (the "hold 8-10 seconds on both buttons while buds are in the case" method)*

I did, and now I have difficulties with the connectivity between the buds.
If I take out the left (dominant one, first paired), it works fine. But when I then take out the right, the left then says: "Power on" while the right bud says: "ding dong dong"...
And that's it... 

So... betas are fun, and I don't regret trying... but now I have ruined them, at least until the next update.


----------



## go0gle

oHUTCHYo said:


> Can you guys please give me a head start on my research and narrow down me some choices please?
> 
> In short:
> 
> ...



I am very happy with how techno sounds on the liberty 2 pro.. youll be head noddin like a kook at the gym


----------



## tma6

tma6 said:


> Is this site legit?
> 
> https://store.beforward.jp/search/Audio/Headphones/?search=nuarl+n6



Anyone? lol


----------



## SoundChoice

SoundChoice said:


> Hi. I'm still new to TWS, and my first set was the Dudios Zeus Air, from the Super Review guy. I know he doesn't get into tons of technical data during his video reviews, but I find him a helpful source. And I agree with his take on the Du-du-dudios: great isolation, great fit, really good sound. Whoever you are, Super Review guy, thanks for the recommendation, and for being an early guide to the rabbit hole.
> 
> Because of recent buzz, my next TWS was the Fiil T1X, currently $40 on Amazon but with occasional discounts. General impression: this set caused a wow factor for me. I'm a terrible reviewer, lacking the audiophile/file/fiil ability to discern and explain what I'm hearing and generally the hearing capacity of a nursing home resident. But the music I heard (alternative rock, Grandson, Billie Eilish, Depeche Mode, CAKE, ELO, etc) was very present, around me and _alive_. The kind of sessions where you can't wait to hear what the earphone will reveal to the next song you thought you knew well. The experience I had read about the the uncomfortable T800 and bulky KPE (don't get me wrong, they're very fine IEMs). A day or two in, I can't get my fill of Fiil.
> 
> ...



ps:


SaveTheMantaRays said:


> Been fiddling around with the FiiL T1X for about 4 days.
> But I have to say, the connection is almost flawless. The connection is best of anything I have tried off this forum thread.  The only cut outs have been when it has made sense.
> 
> Please play around with the tips.  I finally got a tip, that I can insert the entire bud deeper into the canal.  And wow a whole new level of SQ magic. I can listen at 3-4 clicks down on volume
> than I usually do, and it sounds even better.



Tips make the difference; I find the yellow Spinfits give me the good seal. The stock large ones also seal, but the Spinfits bring out an "airiness" that's otherwise lacking. 

But to your point, a tip that is longer works, but do you find it challenging to close the case so they can charge?


----------



## kl884347

Quicky32 said:


> What do the Fiil T1X come with for tips?  I tend to prefer foam...


Standard small medium and large thin silicone. (Same for wings). Nothing else.


----------



## PTDennis

What would be the best tips for the Fill T1X? I usually use foam medium/large. I never tried Spinfit, are those the best? Which model for these TWS?


----------



## voicemaster

SoundChoice said:


> Hi. I'm still new to TWS, and my first set was the Dudios Zeus Air, from the Super Review guy. I know he doesn't get into tons of technical data during his video reviews, but I find him a helpful source. And I agree with his take on the Du-du-dudios: great isolation, great fit, really good sound. Whoever you are, Super Review guy, thanks for the recommendation, and for being an early guide to the rabbit hole.
> 
> Because of recent buzz, my next TWS was the Fiil T1X, currently $40 on Amazon but with occasional discounts. General impression: this set caused a wow factor for me. I'm a terrible reviewer, lacking the audiophile/file/fiil ability to discern and explain what I'm hearing and generally the hearing capacity of a nursing home resident. But the music I heard (alternative rock, Grandson, Billie Eilish, Depeche Mode, CAKE, ELO, etc) was very present, around me and _alive_. The kind of sessions where you can't wait to hear what the earphone will reveal to the next song you thought you knew well. The experience I had read about the the uncomfortable T800 and bulky KPE (don't get me wrong, they're very fine IEMs). A day or two in, I can't get my fill of Fiil.
> 
> ...



When the two red LEDs on the case start blinking.


----------



## voicemaster

PTDennis said:


> What would be the best tips for the Fill T1X? I usually use foam medium/large. I never tried Spinfit, are those the best? Which model for these TWS?



I use modified foam tips (cut in half) and the medium tips that came with the buds.


----------



## assassin10000

Caipirina said:


> So happy that I managed to 'revive' my newer set of Bose SSF!
> 
> I started by cleaning all the contacts and noticed that on the right side, one of the 5 (Five! Why actually so many?) pins that's supposed to spring up, is stuck in an all-the-way down position and hence cannot add its magic to the charging process.
> 
> ...



Try a little rubbing alcohol and a toothpick. See if pressing down lightly and wiggling it will allow the alcohol to wick inwards and free the stickyness.

You could also try wd40 or another penetrating lubricant (liquid wrench, pb blaster, etc). This I would pick up by wetting the toothpick so only a very small amount is used.


----------



## hifi80sman

chinmie said:


> If I'm not mistaken,  @hifi80sman once had them/similar rebranded one, and it's not very good?
> Shame...because it does look cool


Yes, the CloudFox re-brand.  They feel a little cheap and the sound is scratchy and sounds, well, cheap.


----------



## jant71 (Dec 14, 2019)

We have another cable optional model coming pretty soon 12/19 if on time for the black color...









https://www.amazon.com/Lifestyle-Bl...id=1576377691&sourceid=Mozilla-search&sr=8-32


----------



## Uncle00Jesse

So I received the 3rd revision of the L2Ps. Running 1.22 fw and I can safely say these are my endgame tws. The hiss is fixed and they also addressed the harsh nasty highs. They sounds phenomenal now. I’d recommend everyone go out and get these if you haven’t already.


----------



## chinmie

Caipirina said:


> So happy that I managed to 'revive' my newer set of Bose SSF!
> 
> I started by cleaning all the contacts and noticed that on the right side, one of the 5 (Five! Why actually so many?) pins that's supposed to spring up, is stuck in an all-the-way down position and hence cannot add its magic to the charging process.
> 
> ...





assassin10000 said:


> Try a little rubbing alcohol and a toothpick. See if pressing down lightly and wiggling it will allow the alcohol to wick inwards and free the stickyness.
> 
> You could also try wd40 or another penetrating lubricant (liquid wrench, pb blaster, etc). This I would pick up by wetting the toothpick so only a very small amount is used.



i wouldn't use oil based lubricant on electronics.. better to use fast evaporating electronic contact cleaners


----------



## albau

Uncle00Jesse said:


> So I received the 3rd revision of the L2Ps. Running 1.22 fw and I can safely say these are my endgame tws. The hiss is fixed and they also addressed the harsh nasty highs. They sounds phenomenal now. I’d recommend everyone go out and get these if you haven’t already.


Provided you can find a good fit, which wasn’t my case at all.


----------



## tma6 (Dec 14, 2019)

yo @d3myz, have you had any connectivity or other problems w the NT01A? I'm thinking of getting them. Also, just curious but if you tried it, hows the mic quality?


----------



## D3soLaT3

d3myz said:


> The Nuarl N6/pro is out. anyone know where I can get it in the U.S.?


According to their Facebook page the release is pushed back (again) to 12/18.


----------



## atmosfearz

Anker is the single worst company I have ever dealt with. Never gonna buy anything from it ever again. 

I've ordered L2Pro from aliexpress official store on 11.11, received one from the first batch (defective batch I would say) with outstanding white noise. I still can't confirm a return. Anker support is just don't care about anyting.


----------



## ukbiker (Dec 15, 2019)

@atmosfearz
Sounds really bad - hope they sort this out for you



Uncle00Jesse said:


> So I received the 3rd revision of the L2Ps. Running 1.22 fw and I can safely say these are my endgame tws. The hiss is fixed and they also addressed the harsh nasty highs. They sounds phenomenal now. I’d recommend everyone go out and get these if you haven’t already.


Excellent! How did you know it's the 3rd revision? Does it have any markings on the label? Here is mine received a few days ago. Is yours different to this?


----------



## ukbiker (Dec 15, 2019)

here it is


----------



## assassin10000

ukbiker said:


> here it is



@d3myz posted pics & info here:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/goi...e-we-there-yet.861024/page-1147#post-15359409


----------



## ukbiker (Dec 15, 2019)

assassin10000 said:


> @d3myz posted pics & info here:
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/goi...e-we-there-yet.861024/page-1147#post-15359409


Thanks yes I can see that now. Looks like the same one I've got but there is hiss still at low volume on mine


----------



## bronco1015

CocaCola15 said:


> Well, as they say in sports, upon further review (and returning to the 75t medium tips, from the large), I am probably going to keep the Jabras. I listened for an hour or so, and they are very nice, not as shrill as the Fill, which can be a bit peaky. Haven't burned in the Fiil at all, so that could be it. Or I can use EQ to tame the highs a bit. But since I paid $56 for the 75t (that Amazon gift card I had hanging around), I think I will keep them, so now I have four pair of TWs, still a mere piker based on the folks who hang on this thread. My issue with fit seems to have been based on trying the larger tips. You have to sort of turn them to get max fit, and that works best for me with medium tips.
> 
> Are they worth $179? Tough call considering the sound from some of the lesser priced TW phones. I mean, if I had paid $179 for them, I might have returned them. But again, price was a factor in keeping them. Of course, that gift card was a result of me returning other stuff to Amazon, so you could say I paid full price, but my twisted POV says I paid $56. Just fooling myself. Seems less painless, haha.


i feel like you would have mentioned this if you'd had this issue, but when you owned the 65T, did your set have a channel imbalance? Anything like that with the 75T?


----------



## assassin10000 (Dec 15, 2019)

ukbiker said:


> Thanks yes I saw that but could not make out details in his photo. Maybe it's just me.



If mobile tap the photo once and it should bring up a higher quality image. I then tap/hold and open in a new page so I can zoom in easier.

Here is a link to it:
https://cdn.head-fi.org/a/10396121.jpeg


----------



## bronco1015

jant71 said:


> Saw Final has one coming for those Final Audio fans...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


After Final refused to consider looking at my d8000 because of crackling issues in each driver at medium volume, i'll never buy anything from them again. can't believe i spent that much on headphones. Heard them at RMAF back in 2017 and even out of my V20 they sounded really incredible. Some of the best impactful and full bass i've ever heard, that stopped on a dime when it wasn't called for. but THE WORST PURCHASE i've ever made i think ever.


----------



## bronco1015

BLUDGEON said:


> I've been spending a lot of time in headphone shops lately trying out various TWs.
> 
> Today was Sennheiser Momentum TW vs. MW07 Plus.
> 
> ...


IF you've gotten a response on this my bad, catching up on the thread haha. The MTWs are IPX 4, and i can still get 5 hours out of them w vol about 60-65%. That's after a year of usage. And they do have the potential to be EQed to a great sound no doubt.  What you've heard about the case is true. At this point if you are interested in them, i'd not only wait till the revision is out, but give it a bit as well in case there are issues like on the 1st gen.


----------



## ukbiker (Dec 15, 2019)

assassin10000 said:


> If mobile tap the photo once and it should bring up a higher quality image. I then tap/hold and open in a new page so I can zoom in easier.
> 
> Here is a link to it:
> https://cdn.head-fi.org/a/10396121.jpeg



Thanks--Yes I've got the one on top. 
@d3myz seemed to be questioning whether that one on top was Revision 3

That's why I thought to check with @Uncle00Jesse on what his looked like


----------



## bronco1015

d3myz said:


> Has anyone tried these Mee Audio X10s?


They suck


BigZ12 said:


> Eq'd APP? Does the Airpods Pro have a designated EQ I don't know about? Not just the "rotten" presets under Settings-Music? I use Apple Music, and I have a 4 month free sub with Tidal HIFI, but neither have a built-in EQ as for ex. Spotify.
> 
> Other than the APP, I just have the QCY T1C, Tronsmart Spunky Beats and a broken set of Anbes 359 (the originals). SSK BT03 on the way.
> 
> ...


----------



## bronco1015 (Dec 15, 2019)

At Luchyres, at d3myz, at TMA6, at Spamateur and anyone else interested, Looks like the n6 pro is available in italy:
NUARL N6PRO HDSS True Wireless Stereo ... - Amazon.it
Keeps removing the link..
But hopefully only a few mor days till they arrive in the states.
i've been stoked about these for like 2 months now when luchyres mentioned them.
I almost bought the NT01AX several months back, so hoping for greatness with these.


----------



## blacksesame (Dec 15, 2019)

Nt01a vs alien qcc010

To start, I'm pretty hiss sensitive and both have a slight hiss/static to them but not bad. The connection to both are steady but haven't tested outside yet.

Nt01a has more bass and subbass with a wider soundstage. Qcc010 has more clarity and bass hits a bit more quicker but less. I would say qcc010 has a generic sounding earphone while nt01a has a relaxed, smooth yet detailed with lots of bass. Personally I am leaning towards nt01a.

Overall nt01a feels more comfortable and better to use with volume control. Qcc010 is smaller and comfortable as well button is a bit clicky.

Both have a delay in audio so watching youtube could be frustrating. Nt01a has a bit less delay so its tolerable, qcc010 is too slow and not watchable in my opinion

update: using the youtube app on the phone, there's no delay for both

I haven't tested mic yet..


----------



## blacksesame

bronco1015 said:


> At Luchyres, at d3myz, at TMA6, at Spamateur and anyone else interested, Looks like the n6 pro is available in italy:
> NUARL N6PRO HDSS True Wireless Stereo ... - Amazon.it
> Keeps removing the link..
> But hopefully only a few mor days till they arrive in the states.
> ...



I heard the n6 pro and I think it strikes a good balance and to me sounds better than the sony 1000xm3. But that was just quick listen in store for what it's worth. N6 sounds closer to nt01a with lots of bass and less highs


----------



## Caipirina

Inspired by Bartig's mini-review / look-back-on early 2019 darlings, I grabbed my Syllable S101 and I am pretty certain I had not touched them for over a month. And to my very big surprise both the buds and the case had full charges and connected right away and sound as lovely as ever ... One of my earliest purchases of this year's TWS craze summer ... oh, sweet memories 

Which 'old' ones have you recently re-loved again?


----------



## CocaCola15

bronco1015 said:


> i feel like you would have mentioned this if you'd had this issue, but when you owned the 65T, did your set have a channel imbalance? Anything like that with the 75T?


So long ago, can't say I remember it. But so far with the 75t, don't notice any imbalance.


----------



## Mouseman

jant71 said:


> We have another cable optional model coming pretty soon 12/19 if on time for the black color...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That's a very interesting idea, but wow...that case.


----------



## chinmie

Mouseman said:


> That's a very interesting idea, but wow...that case.



It uses the outer part to store the cables. Nice idea


----------



## jant71 (Dec 15, 2019)

Looks about a normal close to 3" diameter clamshell case size...





Not prohibitively large for what it is trying to do. Similar to the metal tins and round ones like this...




What is the control scheme? Does it sound good? Those are the real questions for me. Certainly a curiosity as my logic is Motorola wants a piece of the $$ in this segment that they haven't made a splash in and this could be good because it looks they did try on most fronts on this to make something that would get them noticed and aux in is cool but this thing is done if it doesn't sound good as well. Sound should still be priority cause the unique aspect gets some notice but that won't have the holding/staying power. Sounding good will do that.


----------



## go0gle

atmosfearz said:


> Anker is the single worst company I have ever dealt with. Never gonna buy anything from it ever again.
> 
> I've ordered L2Pro from aliexpress official store on 11.11, received one from the first batch (defective batch I would say) with outstanding white noise. I still can't confirm a return. Anker support is just don't care about anyting.



the complete opposite of my experience


----------



## tma6

After a few days of burn-in with the most recent revision of the L2Ps, I feel that they have opened up quite nicely and are growing on me. They are a bit more tame in the treble and bass than the previous revision, but when you push a song with bass depth it's still able to achieve great extension. Tonality has also started to sound a bit more like the previous revision after doing an A/B test. I still think on both, the timbre of the highs is slightly tinny, but overall these things are still excellent if you get a good fit (I know that's been a complaint). Also going to keep recommending the Vocal Booster EQ setting. It makes everything just sound so much more natural and less veiled than the other settings to my ears.


----------



## tma6

go0gle said:


> the complete opposite of my experience



Yeah they've been great in my experience actually. Were super responsive and gave me a replacement unit without having to return the original revision (v2) version that I had.


----------



## Pete7874 (Dec 15, 2019)

Uncle00Jesse said:


> So I received the 3rd revision of the L2Ps. Running 1.22 fw and I can safely say these are my endgame tws. The hiss is fixed and they also addressed the harsh nasty highs. They sounds phenomenal now. I’d recommend everyone go out and get these if you haven’t already.


Good to hear.  I guess it's time for me to contact Anker now and request a replacement.

Still don't know which version/revision I currently have.


----------



## tma6

I do have to say though I do like the old L2P revision too. On certain songs I just love that bass. I think it's strange they decided to change up the sound on the new revision like this. Another thing I noticed is that the volume is like one notch lower on the new revision as opposed to the previous one. 

Just trying it out though, and the Deep EQ setting also sounds pretty nice on the newest version. It def smooths out the treble (maybe a little too much for my liking?) and gives a fullness and bass emphasis to the sound without messing with the tonality.


----------



## dasadab (Dec 15, 2019)

Ignore. Double post.


----------



## dasadab

go0gle said:


> the complete opposite of my experience


 I have only had excellent customer service as well.


----------



## vladzakhar

I got Libratone Track Air+ from Amazon today. What a waste of time. On the Amazon web site it says they support AAC. They don't and the sound is plain awful with my iphone and SBC codec. The airpods pro sound much better.
Iphone owners be aware - it's false advertisement about AAC support.


----------



## d3myz

tma6 said:


> yo @d3myz, have you had any connectivity or other problems w the NT01A? I'm thinking of getting them. Also, just curious but if you tried it, hows the mic quality?


I haven't, they are working beautifully. Mic quality is great. People say I sound like i'm using my handset.


----------



## d3myz

D3soLaT3 said:


> According to their Facebook page the release is pushed back (again) to 12/18.


 Well, that's a bummer, but  I'd rather wait then get problematic equipment.



ukbiker said:


> Thanks yes I can see that now. Looks like the same one I've got but there is hiss still at low volume on mine



There is literally no way I know of to tell which version of the L2p's you have based on the box. I think you have to contact anker and give them the serial number.



ukbiker said:


> Thanks--Yes I've got the one on top.
> @d3myz seemed to be questioning whether that one on top was Revision 3
> 
> That's why I thought to check with @Uncle00Jesse on what his looked like



The 2 revision 2's I just got have the exact same label. Literally every number on the label is identical and they came a day apart. I think the only real way to tell is by A/B testing them. The Rev. 2 sounds much different to me then may Rev. 1. I'm not a fan of the Rev. 2 so far, but i'm still burning them in. 



go0gle said:


> the complete opposite of my experience



Mine too, Anker has been outstanding to me, but I've dealt with them directly from the beginning.


----------



## webvan

vladzakhar said:


> I got Libratone Track Air+ from Amazon today. What a waste of time. On the Amazon web site it says they support AAC. They don't and the sound is plain awful with my iphone and SBC codec. The airpods pro sound much better.
> Iphone owners be aware - it's false advertisement about AAC support.


No regrets, they're not any better with AptX. I have shared my pros/cons on these a few times before...


----------



## vladzakhar

Well, curiosity kills the cat.


----------



## clerkpalmer

webvan said:


> No regrets, they're not any better with AptX. I have shared my pros/cons on these a few times before...


I had my itchy trigger finger on these last week. Thanks for saving me the return label. Did anyone preorder the 1more anc?


----------



## tma6

clerkpalmer said:


> I had my itchy trigger finger on these last week. Thanks for saving me the return label. Did anyone preorder the 1more anc?



Nah I was thinking about it, but had never placed an order on hifigo before so I chickened out. They're supposed to be out for real in early January


----------



## go0gle

LP2 (pre-order batch) observation post 1.22 firmware .. finally had a chance to listen for an hour or so today, and I am noticing that they respond differently to the EQ settings. I never liked the recommended EQ setting, and now that actually sounds quite good for electronically produced music. I've been impressed since day one, and they continue to provide a very satisfying experience overall.

The hiss sound is almost non existent, it never bothered me really.. in fact I kind of liked it, like some old school analog sound lol


----------



## Caipirina

Mouseman said:


> That's a very interesting idea, but wow...that case.



Is that also a BT speaker?


----------



## howdy

Does any one have a delayed response on the LP2s where you turn the volume down on your source and it does it a second or so afterwards on the LP2S.


----------



## DigDub

Been using the Aviot TE-BD21F triple drivers for a few days. The overall sound is neutral with a slight warmness. It works well with almost all genres, especially for instrumental and movies. The sound is never fatiguing, but detailed at the same time. Aviot has done a very good job of extracting the maximum from each of the 3 drivers. Some companies put a gazillion drivers into their IEMs, but tune them to sound like they have a limited range (too bright or too bassy). Aviot makes the treble sound tight and fast, mids have a natural timbre and bass hits hard when required without sounding flabby. On top of hearing the music, the Aviot lets listeners hear how the music is played. Very impressive effort from Aviot.

Controls-wise, volume control is on the left bud, playback control is on the right bud. When unconnected for a few mins, the buds will auto off, it is also possible to manually power off and on them by pressing the buttons. The ability to manually turn it off and on means I do not have to bring the case out.


----------



## HiFlight (Dec 15, 2019)

webvan said:


> No regrets, they're not any better with AptX. I have shared my pros/cons on these a few times before...


On the contrary, I have found the SQ, comfort and connectivity of the Track Air+ to be excellent.  Of all my TWS earbuds, it ranks #2 just  behind my 75t (which has the superior app).  As opinions differ,  nothing beats auditioning them personally if at all possible. I should add that I am an Android user and have only used them with the ApeX codec.


----------



## RobinFood

DigDub said:


> Been using the Aviot TE-BD21F triple drivers for a few days. The overall sound is neutral with a slight warmness. It works well with almost all genres, especially for instrumental and movies. The sound is never fatiguing, but detailed at the same time. Aviot has done a very good job of extracting the maximum from each of the 3 drivers. Some companies put a gazillion drivers into their IEMs, but tune them to sound like they have a limited range (too bright or too bassy). Aviot makes the treble sound tight and fast, mids have a natural timbre and bass hits hard when required without sounding flabby. On top of hearing the music, the Aviot lets listeners hear how the music is played. Very impressive effort from Aviot.
> 
> Controls-wise, volume control is on the left bud, playback control is on the right bud. When unconnected for a few mins, the buds will auto off, it is also possible to manually power off and on them by pressing the buttons. The ability to manually turn it off and on means I do not have to bring the case out.



Any hiss when listening to silent parts of movies or podcasts? I am looking to upgrade my NT01AX and thought of the m6 pro but worry about the hiss I am already getting from Nuarl.


----------



## go0gle

howdy said:


> Does any one have a delayed response on the LP2s where you turn the volume down on your source and it does it a second or so afterwards on the LP2S.



What is the source ?

 I've tried on a Surface Pro 6, iPhone 6 and XS .. no delay


----------



## DigDub

RobinFood said:


> Any hiss when listening to silent parts of movies or podcasts? I am looking to upgrade my NT01AX and thought of the m6 pro but worry about the hiss I am already getting from Nuarl.


I can't hear hiss, at least not enough to "stand out" during silent passages.


----------



## SoundChoice

the “Problems with L2P and/or its Recent Firmware” thread


----------



## hifi80sman

vladzakhar said:


> I got Libratone Track Air+ from Amazon today. What a waste of time. On the Amazon web site it says they support AAC. They don't and the sound is plain awful with my iphone and SBC codec. The airpods pro sound much better.
> Iphone owners be aware - it's false advertisement about AAC support.


Thanks for the warning.  I was about to order them, but saw this and then took them out of my cart.


----------



## Caipirina

assassin10000 said:


> Try a little rubbing alcohol and a toothpick. See if pressing down lightly and wiggling it will allow the alcohol to wick inwards and free the stickyness.



OMG, that actually worked! I did not think it would, so I held off on that for a bit, but when I finally had some extra time I started this nerv wrecking game of trying to poke a mini dot with the tip of a toothpick 100+ times ... but eventually it poked in, and a bit out again and finally it was half out, enough to slightly grab it with tweezers !!!

So happy to have the SSF back in my arsenal, they are still kick ass TWS imho. 

Oh, and thanks @chinmie for keeping me from trying oil based (tbh, don't have anything like that, other than olive oil, in my arsenal)


----------



## Caipirina

SoundChoice said:


> the “Problems with L2P and/or its Recent Firmware” thread



LOL, was thinking that same  

The LP2 never really caught my eye, but all the talk here ... now I just have to audition them  

Do i get that right, they sound amazing for the few that get a perfect fit and as long as they don't hiss? 
Sounds amazeballs!!!


----------



## webvan

HiFlight said:


> On the contrary, I have found the SQ, comfort and connectivity of the Track Air+ to be excellent.  Of all my TWS earbuds, it ranks #2 just  behind my 75t (which has the superior app).  As opinions differ,  nothing beats auditioning them personally if at all possible. I should add that I am an Android user and have only used them with the ApeX codec.


AptX !
Yes you've posted before that you liked them, as usual, to each their own. I spent a whole month with them and stand by my Pros and Cons and my comparisons with the WF-1000xm3 or Amazon Echo Buds as far as TWS with ANC/ANR go.

Since this is also the L2P complaints thread  Listening to Roger Waters' "cinematic" "Amused to Death" with them and it's really wonderful, they completely immerse you in the music ! Now about that hiss that can be heard in low passages (I have v2)...I have a message into Anker, zero reply so far.


----------



## howdy

go0gle said:


> What is the source ?
> 
> I've tried on a Surface Pro 6, iPhone 6 and XS .. no delay



Google pixel 3 on Android fw10.


----------



## chinmie

so my wife was curious about my WF1000XM3, because she travel on planes quite often. she really like the sound and the ANC, but not too fond of the size. might be partly because my unit has Symbio tips on it, so it sticks out more compared to the stock tips. she tried the WH1000XM3 version, and surprisingly she thinks it's really comfortable (she usually don't like big cumbersome headphones). maybe in the near future I'd purchase an airpods pro for her convenience, not to mention it's got IPX rating... seeing how she handles her phone, IPX rating is a must 

for now, the headphone would do for her plane rides.

i myself prefer the WF version more, especially the sound. it's more balanced


----------



## Caipirina

chinmie said:


> so my wife was curious about my WF1000XM3, because she travel on planes quite often. she really like the sound and the ANC, but not too fond of the size. might be partly because my unit has Symbio tips on it, so it sticks out more compared to the stock tips. she tried the WH1000XM3 version, and surprisingly she thinks it's really comfortable (she usually don't like big cumbersome headphones). maybe in the near future I'd purchase an airpods pro for her convenience, not to mention it's got IPX rating... seeing how she handles her phone, IPX rating is a must
> 
> for now, the headphone would do for her plane rides.
> 
> i myself prefer the WF version more, especially the sound. it's more balanced



Was thinking about getting the APP for wife as well, but she just lost a set of keys and now I have to rotate to find a locksmith and get new locks / keys ... no way she'd not be losing the APP ...


----------



## Grayson73

Bomaker $34.97 after coupon.  https://slickdeals.net/f/13724729-bomaker-true-wireless-earbuds-29-97-deal-is-live-again?v=1


----------



## rhsauer

hifi80sman said:


> Thanks for the warning.  I was about to order them, but saw this and then took them out of my cart.


Me too!


----------



## chinmie (Dec 16, 2019)

Caipirina said:


> Was thinking about getting the APP for wife as well, but she just lost a set of keys and now I have to rotate to find a locksmith and get new locks / keys ... no way she'd not be losing the APP ...



then we share the common fear 
she hasn't lost the Sabbat x12 that i gave her yet, though she does only uses it in the bed room.
I'll see what happen to the XM3 headphone first.. if she manage to keep it in one piece, then she might be able to take care of an APP


----------



## webvan

Talking about the Bomaker I still quite like them and their tiny case, but I'm not really happy with the flat transparent tips anymore as any movement of the jaw really changes the sound. It's probably due to the fact that they go pretty deep inside the ear canal. Good for isolation but then you have these side effects...What tips are the Bomakers owners out there using ?
The M5/T5s with the L2P tips don't have that problem, not to that extent at least.


----------



## Pete7874

webvan said:


> Now about that hiss that can be heard in low passages (I have v2)...I have a message into Anker, zero reply so far.


What country are you in?  Anker seems to be more responsive in the US than in other parts of the world.  I bought my L2P on Amazon, so I contacted Anker via Amazon, and they responded very quickly.  In fact, they just sent me a return label to send my L2P back for replacement.


----------



## d3myz

Anyone see This? I'm a little late to the game, but they are making 6 custom L2pro's. They have already done the giveaways on two. Those white ones look sweet.


----------



## Blueshound24 (Dec 16, 2019)

Caipirina said:


> LOL, was thinking that same
> 
> The LP2 never really caught my eye, but all the talk here ... now I just have to audition them
> 
> ...



I 'was' going to return my L2P...   However, they are very nice, (amazeballs!!!) for bass light music files and they really fill them in with some tasty bass. They can startle you with a very holographic soundstage. I've had to look around when I heard sounds in the recording that seemed like they were in the room. And the highs are very crisp, detailed and exciting! Totally amazeballs!!! 

And like I said for well recorded, balanced songs they are a bit to bassy for me and the mw07 are just right. And for overly bassy cuts they are WAY too bassy. I don't hear any hiss with my version.

So I may keep them for the times the recording is kind of bland. They are a nice alternative when the mw07 seems too analytical or when I just want to have fun.

I still hate the fit. The housing keeps both from being a very deep fit. I think the mw07 is more shallow than the L2P, it is more difficult to get a stable feeling with the former.

The only tips that I have tried that give somewhat of a stable feeling are the Final Type E and Symbio's, (and I have tried Spinfits and Spiral Dots.)

I wish they made some kind of an extension that you could put on the stems to give them just a bit more length.


----------



## LordToneeus

EarStudio ES100 is $53.54 right now on Amazon... in case you can’t find an ideal TWS setup.


----------



## jant71

I saw the Motorola 3-in-1 model was in stock in the black so I put my money where my mouth was and ordered one. On Amazon so I can return if not up to par. Guess we will see if Motorola came through at put up or shut up time.


----------



## Cretz42

d3myz said:


> I don't know if you saw my post earlier this week, but Tranya is re-tuning the Rimor and the new version will be ready at the end of December. Ida is sending me another pair. I'm assuming that a lot of the tester feedback they got wasn't positive. (shrug)



Interesting. I actually really really like the current sound of the Rimor. It's a nice compliment to my MPOW M5. The only thing that I didn't care for was the fit/earbud shape.


----------



## mattedialdoc

Grayson73 said:


> Bomaker $34.97 after coupon.  https://slickdeals.net/f/13724729-bomaker-true-wireless-earbuds-29-97-deal-is-live-again?v=1


That’s a steal!


----------



## mattedialdoc

Ok guys I just put the spinfit CP360 on my FiiL T1x....so much better than the stock tips, and I tried those Auvio from radio shack...but those aren’t as soft silicon as the spinfit. How do Spinfit CP360 compare to the CP 100? And how about vs. Spiral Dots?


----------



## Samplingentropy

Thoughts on 
soundcore Spirit X?
Found a pair for 15€
Something worth buying?


----------



## Coffeegeek

Well when the seller for the Fiil T1x put up a one day coupon to bring them back down to $40 I bought.  Waiting for them now.  I was really tempted to get the Bomaker's last night for $30 as well, but the blinking blue lights and the fact that most of you here stated that the Fiil are better than the Bomaker convinced me to hold off - that and another 6 months and the field will be totally different again.  Now I just hope that they aren't laggy in Youtube.   I know that AptX tws aren't usually, so we will see with the T1X


----------



## Quicky32

Listening to the Fiil T1X now and they fit great while sounding pretty darn good.  The connection is super fast...they’re a winner so far and at $40-$50 a steal.


----------



## tma6

Quicky32 said:


> Listening to the Fiil T1X now and they fit great while sounding pretty darn good.  The connection is super fast...they’re a winner so far and at $40-$50 a steal.



Yeah the more I listen to them the more I like them. One of the better values out there imo. Now if only the app would let you change the control layout..


----------



## Caipirina

Grayson73 said:


> Bomaker $34.97 after coupon.  https://slickdeals.net/f/13724729-bomaker-true-wireless-earbuds-29-97-deal-is-live-again?v=1



When I clicked I even saw 29.97$, but also 'deal expired'  

I could get them via German amazon for 49.99€ .. plus shipping to Japan .. so, I think I hold off on those ... They look very nice though


----------



## Blueshound24

LordToneeus said:


> EarStudio ES100 is $53.54 right now on Amazon... in case you can’t find an ideal TWS setup.



That is the price for the HE100 earphone. The ES100 is $79.20.

https://www.amazon.com/EarStudio-ES100-24bit-High-Resolution-Bluetooth-Unbalanced/dp/B07VB2Q8S9/


----------



## jlo mein (Dec 17, 2019)

webvan said:


> What tips are the Bomakers owners out there using ?



I recently received Spinfit CP360 tips and can't praise them enough. These fit my Bomaker Sifi, Liberty 2 Pro, and Shanling MTW100 (reports say only the SS size CP360 fit the Shanling case for charging).  I received S and M sized Spinfits, and the sizing is consistent with S and M sized tips from the above earbud models.

The silicone used on Spinfits is much more soft and flexible than any other tips I own.  Fit in ear canal feels very secure, especially for the L2P which feel like they're dangling out with other tips.  Comfort exceeds any stock tip.  For the Bomaker, I think the Spinfit provides ever so slightly less isolation than the black stock tips.  

Difference in sound depends on what stock tips you're used to.  Mids are a pinch subdued compared to black Bomaker tips. This could be significant compared with the Bomaker translucent tips, which leave the driver opening more exposed rather than surrounded by a tunnel. 

For your specific issue about losing seal when opening your jaw, I can't say whether the Spinfit would fix it. It could be dependent on your own anatomy.  With Spinfit or stock tips I don't lose seal when opening my jaw.


----------



## TYATYA

Anker liberty air 2 sounds really bullsh*t w/o eqing.
It sounds very very good after simply cut out some dB of 40-100Hz.
Blind buy for my daugter bcs it looks nice.
I did not think it was so good.


All preset are crapy because no room for user to customize.


----------



## FunctionalDoc

DigDub said:


> Been using the Aviot TE-BD21F triple drivers for a few days. The overall sound is neutral with a slight warmness. It works well with almost all genres, especially for instrumental and movies. The sound is never fatiguing, but detailed at the same time. Aviot has done a very good job of extracting the maximum from each of the 3 drivers. Some companies put a gazillion drivers into their IEMs, but tune them to sound like they have a limited range (too bright or too bassy). Aviot makes the treble sound tight and fast, mids have a natural timbre and bass hits hard when required without sounding flabby. On top of hearing the music, the Aviot lets listeners hear how the music is played. Very impressive effort from Aviot.
> 
> Controls-wise, volume control is on the left bud, playback control is on the right bud. When unconnected for a few mins, the buds will auto off, it is also possible to manually power off and on them by pressing the buttons. The ability to manually turn it off and on means I do not have to bring the case out.



Are these worth $259 US dollars? This a top tiered pricing. How is the connection and what devices have you connected too ?


----------



## DigDub

FunctionalDoc said:


> Are these worth $259 US dollars? This a top tiered pricing. How is the connection and what devices have you connected too ?


The sound quality is top notch. Connection strength is not the best of the TWS I have, but it does not break often. I mainly connect it to my Sony Android phone.


----------



## clerkpalmer

DigDub said:


> The sound quality is top notch. Connection strength is not the best of the TWS I have, but it does not break often. I mainly connect it to my Sony Android phone.


Any comparison to something like mw07 or senns for sq. I am intrigued.


----------



## Quicky32

I must not be getting a good deal because the T1X sound is inconsistent. The bass is nonexistent at times and I can hear a whistling sound when I touch the buttons. They seem to sound better when I don’t push them as far in.

Any suggestions on some different ear tips?


----------



## stormwrx

The latest from Master & Dynamic support on enabling AAC on the MW07 Plus (I also asked about AptX Adaptive):



> We are working with our chip provider to enable AAC and will be able to retroactively update your earphones when we have a solution. Unfortunately, I have not heard of plans to support AptX Adaptive but I will be passing along your request and feedback to the team for further consideration.


----------



## Leeco

FunctionalDoc said:


> Are these worth $259 US dollars? This a top tiered pricing. How is the connection and what devices have you connected too ?


There seem to be a lot of defects with TE-BD21f version in Japan. Aviot's customer service seems to ignore customers, as seen from reviews on Amazon Japan.
I would say buy only from a seller you can return in case you have a problem with the device.
For your information, Amazon Japan does not allow to returns packages like electronics if they have been opened. (Unlike their US counterpart).


----------



## webvan

jlo mein said:


> I recently received Spinfit CP360 tips and can't praise them enough. These fit my Bomaker Sifi, Liberty 2 Pro, and Shanling MTW100 (reports say only the SS size CP360 fit the Shanling case for charging).  I received S and M sized Spinfits, and the sizing is consistent with S and M sized tips from the above earbud models.
> 
> The silicone used on Spinfits is much more soft and flexible than any other tips I own.  Fit in ear canal feels very secure, especially for the L2P which feel like they're dangling out with other tips.  Comfort exceeds any stock tip.  For the Bomaker, I think the Spinfit provides ever so slightly less isolation than the black stock tips.
> 
> ...



Thanks for your detailed reply. I own the CP360s actually but they don't work for me with the Bomakers because I can no longer tuck them against the bottom of my ear like I can with the flat transparent tips. I haven't really been able to use the CP360s with any of my TWEs because while they provide a good seal, I find that it makes them stick out more than whatever original tips are provided and that creates fit issues. Maybe I'd need to insert them deeper but I don't really like to do that. I also find that they make for a sound that's a bit "shrill", not sure why.

On another matter, I finally heard back from Anker Germany that I'd contacted via Amazon France. They say they're aware that 1% (yeah right...) of the L2Ps have hiss issues and that they'd be happy to examine mine if I send them back to them (no prepaid label but they'll refund the cost) and based on their findings would send me another pair. Sounds like a big hassle, at the very least they could send a new pair upfront with a return label...I'll probably just toss them back to Amazon and let them deal with it.

Talking of Amazon France they have the X12 Ultra for 29€ shipped so I broke down and got them, even though they're the "camo" version, oh well, won't hurt when running in the woods ! With my X12 v1 (Lezii), Red X12 v2 that should keep me running for a while !


----------



## Caipirina

Looky here, TFZ (The Funky Zither?) comes out with a 2BA tws in shiny chrome ... looks interesting. SBC, AAC, AptX, 7-8h playtime on single charge .. some kind of waterproof I can't decipher (pretty much all of the ad-copy is Chinese only)


 

and it does THIS: (Forgot what that was called) 

 

linky-link


----------



## SoundChoice

Quicky32 said:


> I must not be getting a good deal because the T1X sound is inconsistent. The bass is nonexistent at times and I can hear a whistling sound when I touch the buttons. They seem to sound better when I don’t push them as far in.
> 
> Any suggestions on some different ear tips?



You’re not getting a good seal. Try different tips and size. Spinfit 100 are longer and helped me, though case may not close


----------



## Grayson73

Caipirina said:


> When I clicked I even saw 29.97$, but also 'deal expired'
> 
> I could get them via German amazon for 49.99€ .. plus shipping to Japan .. so, I think I hold off on those ... They look very nice though



Haha yeah it used to be $29.97 but the coupon is now only $15.00


----------



## DigDub

clerkpalmer said:


> Any comparison to something like mw07 or senns for sq. I am intrigued.


I have demoed them in stores. The mw07 highs sounds bright and splashy to me. The senn mtw did not leave me much of an impression, so I would maybe say they are average to my ears. Compared to the Sony wf-1000xm3, it used to be the top in SQ for me, the Aviot has become my favorite now.


----------



## clerkpalmer

DigDub said:


> I have demoed them in stores. The mw07 highs sounds bright and splashy to me. The senn mtw did not leave me much of an impression, so I would maybe say they are average to my ears. Compared to the Sony wf-1000xm3, it used to be the top in SQ for me, the Aviot has become my favorite now.


Thanks.  I don't have any issues with the MW07. Probably my ears are starting to fail me.  But I agree that MTW is pretty mediocre.  These sound interesting but at $269 they better sing and they don't appear to be available in the US as Amazon is showing 2 week delivery.  I'd give them a shot if I had an easy return option.


----------



## WesennTony

Leeco said:


> There seem to be a lot of defects with TE-BD21f version in Japan. Aviot's customer service seems to ignore customers, as seen from reviews on Amazon Japan.
> I would say buy only from a seller you can return in case you have a problem with the device.
> For your information, Amazon Japan does not allow to returns packages like electronics if they have been opened. (Unlike their US counterpart).



Agree. I ordered one pair from Tec_Japan from Amazon US. The delivery was pretty fast, only two days from Japan. Initially there was a noticeable hiss, though after burning-in it becomes kind of "cold hiss", meaning a noticeable hiss for the first couple of songs then un-noticeable. I contacted the seller about the hiss. They sent me an English manual, and instructed me to reset and test pairing other devices. When all did not work, they said "review the request and get back as soon as possible". No reply since then. I can stand with the "cold hiss", but if I got a defective set, I doubt the return/exchange could be painful.

That being said, I really love BD21f, even more so than their little brother, te-d01b. te-d01b still have the best mids to my ears, smooth, airy and detailed. But BD21f have the best package of TWS I have owned so far. The bass has excellent sub-mass extension, less amount than MW07 but almost the same texture. The mids is lukewarm between te-d01b/Nuarl Nt01x and MW07, the highs is sparkly and detailed. The timbre is very accurate. The advantage of the hybrids is clearly obvious that the sound is balanced with high-resolving details throughout the whole spectrum. In some songs they lack the airiness from te-d01b, partly due to the enhanced bass, but they're more versatile for any music genres I tried. The lukewarm sound sig also suits well with Amazon music HD, which I found very clinical from te-d01b.

They're also the most comfortable pair I have now, almost as comfortable as earin M2 I used to own. As much as I love te-d01b and nt01x, I always tend to grab bd21f. The isolation is also excellent. The other day I went to local Apple store to demo APP. To me ears, the overall isolation is even a little better than APP.  

To me they're worth $259, though be aware the seller.


----------



## subxero

just got the liberty 2 pros, liking them so far.  was going for the nuarl but availability in canada is overpriced


----------



## jlo mein

Caipirina said:


> Looky here, TFZ (The Funky Zither?) comes out with a 2BA tws in shiny chrome ... looks interesting. SBC, AAC, AptX, 7-8h playtime on single charge .. some kind of waterproof I can't decipher (pretty much all of the ad-copy is Chinese only)
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Looks exactly the same as the double BA MIFO O7 that came out before 11-11 (aside from the chrome look).

https://m.aliexpress.com/item/40003...d=5830amp-qBodAOAO9u3GMf6s072Kag1576597650538


----------



## Caipirina

jlo mein said:


> Looks exactly the same as the double BA MIFO O7 that came out before 11-11 (aside from the chrome look).
> 
> https://m.aliexpress.com/item/40003...d=5830amp-qBodAOAO9u3GMf6s072Kag1576597650538



Right! 

totally slipped my mind that one!


----------



## Blueshound24 (Dec 17, 2019)

I posted this on the Deals thread as well. Just putting it here in case Y'all don't sub to it.



> L2P down to $109, normally $149.
> 
> These are pretty decent TWS IEM’s. Very dynamic sound with crisp clear extended treble, mids are present, but somewhat bassy sound. On well recorded songs without overblown bass in the mix they sound fairly balanced but yet an exciting sound, but if bass is overblown in the mix these will definitely have too much bass, imo. However, they are good for bland, too flat boring mixes that have reduced DR and are not recorded well, or just for a little fun.
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00E8BDS60/


----------



## d3myz

Quicky32 said:


> I must not be getting a good deal because the T1X sound is inconsistent. The bass is nonexistent at times and I can hear a whistling sound when I touch the buttons. They seem to sound better when I don’t push them as far in.
> 
> Any suggestions on some different ear tips?


Are you using the app? There is an EQ in it. also make sure to burn them in for a good amount of time. My second set is going on 1900 minutes of just burn it. I've used the L2pro tips, Nuarl tips and the Auvio tips. The Auvio's sound the best to me. I have the spinfit 360's but everytime I used them they make the midbass really punchy and reduce the high end. I also just got some Symbio Mandarin w/ peel and w/o peel. going to test them out soon with the T1x. So far after some serious tip rolling and breaking the Peels in, they are fantastic.


----------



## d3myz

Choo, Nuarl Train, Choo! I found the Nuarl N6 pro on amazon.us but it's $96 more than in Japan.  Looks like i'll be waiting a while.


----------



## hifi80sman

d3myz said:


> Choo, Nuarl Train, Choo! I found the Nuarl N6 pro on amazon.us but it's $96 more than in Japan.  Looks like i'll be waiting a while.


Good ol' TEC Japan.  You can get stuff earlier, but it's going to cost you!  I'm waiting for those bad boys as well.  I went on a spree of over-ear purchases lately, so wouldn't hurt me to wait.


----------



## d3myz

hifi80sman said:


> Good ol' TEC Japan.  You can get stuff earlier, but it's going to cost you!  I'm waiting for those bad boys as well.  I went on a spree of over-ear purchases lately, so wouldn't hurt me to wait.


Yea, I hear that. I have to wait to open my WH-1000xm3's for Christmas and i'm having second thoughts about them already. I still like my WF 1000xm3's but the ambient mode/ transparency and the ANC just pails in comparison to the APPs. The Air Pods just sound SO much better, except for music and I've been using the Nuarl's and the FIIL's for music, so I dont' quite no what to do with them. You mentioned that when you switch out the Sony tips you lose bass and that was the first thing I noticed, unfortunately there's just not enough bass for my liking w/o them and the Sony tips seem to diminish the mids and highs for me. Conundrum. I really hope sony boosts the ambient mode and the ANC. The sound is still great, but they just aren't fun like the L2pro and the revision 2's I have on the new firmware sound awfully comparable to the Sony's IMO.


----------



## hifi80sman

d3myz said:


> Yea, I hear that. I have to wait to open my WH-1000xm3's for Christmas and i'm having second thoughts about them already. I still like my WF 1000xm3's but the ambient mode/ transparency and the ANC just pails in comparison to the APPs. The Air Pods just sound SO much better, except for music and I've been using the Nuarl's and the FIIL's for music, so I dont' quite no what to do with them. You mentioned that when you switch out the Sony tips you lose bass and that was the first thing I noticed, unfortunately there's just not enough bass for my liking w/o them and the Sony tips seem to diminish the mids and highs for me. Conundrum. I really hope sony boosts the ambient mode and the ANC. The sound is still great, but they just aren't fun like the L2pro and the revision 2's I have on the new firmware sound awfully comparable to the Sony's IMO.


----------



## go0gle

Blueshound24 said:


> I posted this on the Deals thread as well. Just putting it here in case Y'all don't sub to it.



Great deal! Pretty much what I paid with the pre-order deal they had running before release..


----------



## go0gle

howdy said:


> Google pixel 3 on Android fw10.



Can you try them with something else? Not saying that should be happening, but at least you might narrow down the problem.


----------



## C_Lindbergh (Dec 17, 2019)

Hopefully 2020 will be the year of True Wireless, so far there hasn't been a single TWS that's been somewhat perfect for me. Maybe we'll see some more in Jan during CES 

But 2019 saw some huge improvements in terms of battery life and dual connection instead of master/slave.

But when will more audiophile companies being their TWS journey? What companies besides Sennheiser and Audio Technica have released any TWS?


----------



## cwill (Dec 17, 2019)

Have I mentioned the Spunky Beat has the absolute worst connection of any TWS I have tried so far? Does anyone else have this problem with these? They not only cut out all the time, but they actually disconnect, then reconnect all the time on their own. It's a shame cuz I really like how they sound.


----------



## Samplingentropy

cwill said:


> Have I mentioned the Spunky Beat has the absolute worst connection of any TWS I have tried so far? Does anyone else have this problem with these? They not only cut out all the time, but they actually disconnect, then reconnect all the time on their own. It's a shame cuz I really like how they sound.



Not what I wanted to read, mine (my first tws)i in the mail on its way from Ali to me. =\


----------



## X-Nemesis

cwill said:


> Have I mentioned the Spunky Beat has the absolute worst connection of any TWS I have tried so far? Does anyone else have this problem with these? They not only cut out all the time, but they actually disconnect, then reconnect all the time on their own. It's a shame cuz I really like how they sound.



Yep, experienced those very issues today.  Disappointing.


----------



## FYLegend

cwill said:


> Have I mentioned the Spunky Beat has the absolute worst connection of any TWS I have tried so far? Does anyone else have this problem with these? They not only cut out all the time, but they actually disconnect, then reconnect all the time on their own. It's a shame cuz I really like how they sound.


That's a shame, I don't have much confidence in the Onyx Neo which is still being shipped since Black Friday. Their "Official" store has one of the slowest shipments I've experienced for Standard Shipping, as if they hold back until the last 12 hours after the order and another week before dispatching.


----------



## Blueshound24

d3myz said:


> I also just got some Symbio Mandarin w/ peel and w/o peel. going to test them out soon with the T1x. So far after some serious tip rolling and breaking the Peels in, they are fantastic.



Good choice. The Symbio have all the advantages of foam tips with the neutrality of silicone tips, and no disadvantages. And even with my size, the LG, I can place them without having to squeeze them down if I'm in a hurry. Love them for their ease of use, comfort, Isolation, unimpeded treble response and just because.


----------



## d3myz

Samplingentropy said:


> Not what I wanted to read, mine (my first tws)i in the mail on its way from Ali to me. =\


Me either. Mine are somewhere in the middle of the ocean too.


----------



## d3myz

Blueshound24 said:


> Good choice. The Symbio have all the advantages of foam tips with the neutrality of silicone tips, and no disadvantages. And even with my size, the LG, I can place them without having to squeeze them down if I'm in a hurry. Love them for their ease of use, comfort, Isolation, unimpeded treble response and just because.


I'm really loving the peels, they fit perfectly and are just slightly longer than the Wa. I'm having some trouble with the Wa in my right ear, so i've been rolling them for the last little while. Hopefully they will soften up a little, because I really love them. The isolation is excellent and so is the sound quality.


----------



## wksoh

Grayson73 said:


> If you only want to buy one, get the SSK.  If you want to buy 2 to compare, get the MPOW T5 also.  Those seem to be the two most mentioned under $50.
> 
> If you're in the U.S., you can get both from Amazon.
> SSK - https://www.amazon.com/SSK-Bluetooth-Headphones-Sweatproof-Microphone/dp/B07R8TPND5
> ...


Yes.. these 2 are my favourites too


----------



## wksoh (Dec 17, 2019)

Grayson73 said:


> I much prefer the SSK to the Mpow T5.  I found the SSK to have a wider soundstage and more exciting for pop music.



Ooops.. I'm at the opposite spectrum: I find the M5 has a lot of power in the mids and can handle better when a lot of instruments are being played. I find my SSK crackle a bit in that area.
Also the M5 bass is smoother with bass guitar sounding more realistic (exactly like a bass guitar running his fingers on bass). The SSK bass has more strike & impact.
The SSK and spunky beat seems to offer more detailed - I think they are ore V shaped.

So I kept both


----------



## wksoh

Samplingentropy said:


> Not what I wanted to read, mine (my first tws)i in the mail on its way from Ali to me. =\


I find the spunky beat buds are too small. The seal not as good - moving the jaws will change the sound too.
They also have less power in the mids and also less bass rumble than Mpow M5
Spunky beat & SSK sound more detailed - because a more V shaped sound is applied I think..


----------



## CocaCola15

Did a quick sound comparison with the Jabra 75t, the Melomania 1 (OEM foam tips) and the L2P (using Comply Audio Pro foam) and to me, the 75t just sound thin. Not horrible, but thin. Could be the fit/form. As with the 65t I once owned, I can't really get a tight seal with the 75t OEM tips. They are very comfy, no doubt. But on Dancing with Kadafi and a few different tracks to compare the 3 TW phones, I kept hearing fuller, thicker sound (albeit clear and clean on the upper frequencies), and I don't mean more bass. Just a fuller sound and it's probably a function of the foam tips and design of the L2P and the M1s. Others have said the M1s bother them due to the very robust sound tube, but with the original foam, they are a great fit for me.

So I guess the Jabras are going back to Amazon. I like the hear-through feature, and they are comfortable. But if I have to keep fiddling with them, especially in my left ear, to get them to stay in place in terms of a firm fit, a deal breaker. I am using the largest tips from Jabra, and I am concerned if I try to use third party foam tips, they won't fit in the case. I'll try that, but not hopeful.

I also am pretty amazed at how good the FiiL T1X phones sound for $36 incl tax. Close enough to the $100+ TWs I own. Amazing how many options/choices among TW phones. Insane may be the better word.


----------



## voicemaster

Blueshound24 said:


> Good choice. The Symbio have all the advantages of foam tips with the neutrality of silicone tips, and no disadvantages. And even with my size, the LG, I can place them without having to squeeze them down if I'm in a hurry. Love them for their ease of use, comfort, Isolation, unimpeded treble response and just because.



Where can you get this symbio tips?


----------



## Quicky32

d3myz said:


> Are you using the app? There is an EQ in it. also make sure to burn them in for a good amount of time. My second set is going on 1900 minutes of just burn it. I've used the L2pro tips, Nuarl tips and the Auvio tips. The Auvio's sound the best to me. I have the spinfit 360's but everytime I used them they make the midbass really punchy and reduce the high end. I also just got some Symbio Mandarin w/ peel and w/o peel. going to test them out soon with the T1x. So far after some serious tip rolling and breaking the Peels in, they are fantastic.




I use the app when I’m at home listening but use my IPod nano at the gym with the rock EQ.  These sound better when I don’t push them all the way in...


----------



## Quicky32

The foam tips from my IBasso IT01 don’t fit well on the Fiil T1X.  I’m going to order some tips to try, what works best?


----------



## chinmie

voicemaster said:


> Where can you get this symbio tips?



I ordered mine straight from the maker
https://symbioeartips.com/

They also list retailers in a few countries (Indonesia has one, but apparently sold out at the moment), so there might one nearer to your location


----------



## C_Lindbergh (Dec 17, 2019)

Had anyone tested the Mifo 07 dual balanced?

Hows the SQ and fit?

How isgood is the battery life? Mifos website claims +8 h while Aliexpress stores claims 7h.


----------



## Samplingentropy

wksoh said:


> I find the spunky beat buds are too small. The seal not as good - moving the jaws will change the sound too.
> They also have less power in the mids and also less bass rumble than Mpow M5
> Spunky beat & SSK sound more detailed - because a more V shaped sound is applied I think..



How about the mpow t6? A seller on eBay gave me an offer 15$ of..
Are they any good?


----------



## wksoh

Samplingentropy said:


> How about the mpow t6? A seller on eBay gave me an offer 15$ of..
> Are they any good?



I've never tried T6.. But there is review here. Ask @Bartig, he knows!! 
https://www.scarbir.com/tws/mpow-t6-review


----------



## Caipirina

d3myz said:


> Yea, I hear that. I have to wait to open my WH-1000xm3's for Christmas and i'm having second thoughts about them already.



Just seeing that there might be already the XM4 coming in January   Not spoiling xmas or anything


----------



## Caipirina

d3myz said:


> Choo, Nuarl Train, Choo! I found the Nuarl N6 pro on amazon.us but it's $96 more than in Japan.  Looks like i'll be waiting a while.



Curious now ... what's the difference between the Pro and the regular? The IPX rating?


----------



## Blueshound24 (Dec 17, 2019)

voicemaster said:


> Where can you get this symbio tips?



I ordered them feom garcs5522 on ebay. He is also a member here.

https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nk...0057.m4084.l1313.TR11.TRC1.A0.H0.XSymbio.TRS0


----------



## karloil

Caipirina said:


> Curious now ... what's the difference between the Pro and the regular? The IPX rating?



https://nuarl.com/en/n6/ - under FAQ section


----------



## Quicky32

d3myz said:


> Are you using the app? There is an EQ in it. also make sure to burn them in for a good amount of time. My second set is going on 1900 minutes of just burn it. I've used the L2pro tips, Nuarl tips and the Auvio tips. The Auvio's sound the best to me. I have the spinfit 360's but everytime I used them they make the midbass really punchy and reduce the high end. I also just got some Symbio Mandarin w/ peel and w/o peel. going to test them out soon with the T1x. So far after some serious tip rolling and breaking the Peels in, they are fantastic.



Which Symbio’s do I need for the T1X?


----------



## d3myz (Dec 17, 2019)

Caipirina said:


> Curious now ... what's the difference between the Pro and the regular? The IPX rating?



https://nuarl.com/en/n6/

Edit: sorry, didn't see the previous post. the Pro is supposed to be a neutral SS, where the N6 is supposed to be more like the NT01A/AX from what I read. I believe they are the same in all other regards. N6 pro comes with spinfits.


----------



## d3myz

Quicky32 said:


> Which Symbio’s do I need for the T1X?


Not sure. I think it depends on your ears. I believe they are all the same except for the Peel, they just come with different inserts. I got the W and the W peel. Personally I'm having better luck with the Peel. The (W) hybrid tip feels like it needs a lot of breaking in for me to be comfortable, and my right ear just doesn't play nice all the time, but the isolation is excellent and sound is great. I'm still in the process of breaking the W in. but I'm using the peel on my XM3's, NT01A and my L2pro's right now. I just tried the W on my T1x, listened to "The Ocean" by the mighty Zepp. sounds awesome. the memory foam kind of pushes the tip out of my ear, so i'm hoping when it softens up a bit it will be perfect.


----------



## d3myz

voicemaster said:


> Where can you get this symbio tips?



https://symbioeartips.com/termek/symbio-w-peel/ on black friday the peel's were $5 and the W's were $10. maybe they'll go on sale again.


----------



## gdv brisbane

What HiFi magazine in the UK have given the Amazon Echo Buds a very unflattering review. 2 stars out of 5 and a "don't buy" recommendation. I was torn between these and the SSK around 11/11 so it looks like I made the right call with the SSKs...

https://www.whathifi.com/reviews/amazon-echo-buds


----------



## pbirkett

My first foray into TW headphones is with the Cambridge Melomania 1's. I did a fair bit of research on these and it was either going to be these or the Sony XM3s.

I ended up returning them after a week. Some of its issues are more about TW headphones themselves rather than specifically to the Cambridge.
My previous BT headphones are Anker Soundsurge headphones, which cost the princely sum of £18 a couple of years ago, but in fairness apart from the pretty poor battery life (around 4 hours tops) they seem to punch above their weight for sound quality.

Anyway I decided I wanted an upgrade so I plumped for these.

First off I bought them mainly for use in the office, but immediately found them somewhat impractical. If someone comes and talks to me (very frequent) then with my old neckbuds I just pulled them out my ears and let them hang on my neck. With these, I had to remove one of the earphones and either hold it or put it down (and hope I don't forget it). For that reason alone I don't think I'll be getting any other TW headphone.

Secondly, I nearly lost one of the buds on the very first night, it was walking home, raining, had my hood up, stopped raining, pulled my hood down, this caught the bud and nearly pulled it out. Bearing in mind I'm in the middle of winter in a country that gets little daylight at this time, and where I was there was little lighting, I could easily have lost it.

Third, the fit was difficult. I could get a good seal but keeping it was difficult. No such problems with my Ankers. I know people will say "buy foam tips" but thats an ongoing expense and I dislike how these foam tips end up looking after even a short period of time.

Finally, one earbud just start dropping out after a couple of days, so essentially defective.

However, even when they worked, I have to say I was disappointed. They don't sound any better to me than my £18 Ankers, despite costing me 5x the price. Now, I am aware that I'm paying for a lot of technology in a small package, but honestly, I was surprised and disappointed by that. In fact, I would go so far as to say the Ankers sounded more pleasing to my ears; the Cambridge's sounded a bit Sennheiser-ish to me, that is, they are more warm and bassy, so they just sounded a bit dull and unexciting to me. The Ankers just sounded crisper, cleaner, more enjoyable, and they were less than 1/5th of the price.

Apparently these sound nearly as good as the XM3s so with that being the case, I'd have to say, they're alright for convenience in certain usage cases, but for good quality audio, these are miles off the mark. I heard someone on a review say they were as good as full sized headphones. Well they might be as good as cheap ones, but compared to my B&W P7Ws they sounded pathetic quite honestly (although clearly not a fair comparison but still, at least one can temper their expectations when such a statement that they sound as good as full sized cans do are circulated).

So yeah, to answer the original question, IMO, if this is in the top tier of TW headphones then no they aren't ready yet, at least, not if one cares about good quality and reliable audio performance, as they delivered neither.


----------



## BigZ12 (Dec 18, 2019)

Got six pairs of JVC Spiral Dots from Penon Audio today.
2x M-ML-L (L was too big, and was wasted money)
BUT, my God! The ML with the updated Lypertek Tevi!! 

With Spinfit CP360 I used the "bass booster settings", but with the Spiral dots it's soo good with flat eq/Lypertek signature in the app.

PS: I owe it to you d3myz, for your glowing reviews of these tips several times.


----------



## webvan

gdv brisbane said:


> What HiFi magazine in the UK have given the Amazon Echo Buds a very unflattering review. 2 stars out of 5 and a "don't buy" recommendation. I was torn between these and the SSK around 11/11 so it looks like I made the right call with the SSKs...
> 
> https://www.whathifi.com/reviews/amazon-echo-buds



Can't say I've noticed any of the sound problems based on volume they point out. There is however the occasional "pop" when changing the volume I recently noticed which I think is attributable to the "Feedback ANC" they're using, i.e. the sound inside your ear changes so the ANC has to adapt. Same as when you're in the tube with overhead ANC cans and the door opens creating a pressure change that tricks the ANC mics on the outside. Not a huge deal for the Echo Buds but the APPs, XM3s or LTA+ don't have that.

I do object to that "comment in passing" the "They’re not *quite as good* as the more expensive Sony WF-1000XM3s, but there is a subtle improvement with the ANC turned on, compared to relying on the passive isolation from the earbuds." Yes as I've (and @rhsauer) written before the improvement is subtle but that's because the passive isolation of the Echo Buds is WAY better than it is on the XM3s (or APPs or LTA+). What matters is the end result, passive+ANR/ANC, and the Echo Buds are the best to my ears. RTings with their intricate measuring device agree too


----------



## C_Lindbergh (Dec 18, 2019)

pbirkett said:


> My first foray into TW headphones is with the Cambridge Melomania 1's. I did a fair bit of research on these and it was either going to be these or the Sony XM3s.
> 
> I ended up returning them after a week. Some of its issues are more about TW headphones themselves rather than specifically to the Cambridge.
> My previous BT headphones are Anker Soundsurge headphones, which cost the princely sum of £18 a couple of years ago, but in fairness apart from the pretty poor battery life (around 4 hours tops) they seem to punch above their weight for sound quality.
> ...



That's why an easy to access transparency/ambient mode is so important, but sadly the majority of True Wireless doesn't deliver this.  But I'm hopeful we'll see many new interesting products in 2020.

Would also be a big boost for all bluetooth earbuds/headphones if APTX Adaptive became more common, then there's no need for any other codec unless they develop something with a higher bitrate.


----------



## chinmie

webvan said:


> Can't say I've noticed any of the sound problems based on volume they point out. There is however the occasional "pop" when changing the volume I recently noticed which I think is attributable to the "Feedback ANC" they're using, i.e. the sound inside your ear changes so the ANC has to adapt. Same as when you're in the tube with overhead ANC cans and the door opens creating a pressure change that tricks the ANC mics on the outside. Not a huge deal for the Echo Buds but the APPs, XM3s or LTA+ don't have that.
> 
> I do object to that "comment in passing" the "They’re not *quite as good* as the more expensive Sony WF-1000XM3s, but there is a subtle improvement with the ANC turned on, compared to relying on the passive isolation from the earbuds." Yes as I've (and @rhsauer) written before the improvement is subtle but that's because the passive isolation of the Echo Buds is WAY better than it is on the XM3s (or APPs or LTA+). What matters is the end result, passive+ANR/ANC, and the Echo Buds are the best to my ears. RTings with their intricate measuring device agree too



does the echo buds ANC mode has a faint hissing sound?


----------



## pbirkett

C_Lindbergh said:


> That's why an easy to access transparency/ambient mode is so important, but sadly the majority of True Wireless doesn't deliver this.  But I'm hopeful we'll see many new interesting products in 2020.



Yes, I don't think I read of any implementation of it that I would find satisfactory at this stage so I made do without for the M1s, but I hadn't really fully thought about how impractical it would be in the real world.


----------



## C_Lindbergh

pbirkett said:


> Yes, I don't think I read of any implementation of it that I would find satisfactory at this stage so I made do without for the M1s, but I hadn't really fully thought about how impractical it would be in the real world.



There are a few great implementations were you just have to press it once and it automatically lowers the music volume and engages the ambient mode. 

But the biggest problem is ofc the human factor, other people will still think that you're listning to music werehas if you take an earbud out they'll now for certain that you can listen.


----------



## DigDub

Leeco said:


> There seem to be a lot of defects with TE-BD21f version in Japan. Aviot's customer service seems to ignore customers, as seen from reviews on Amazon Japan.
> I would say buy only from a seller you can return in case you have a problem with the device.
> For your information, Amazon Japan does not allow to returns packages like electronics if they have been opened. (Unlike their US counterpart).


Unfortunately I think my charging case doesn't seem to be able to charge the right earbud now, which seems like a common complaint on the Amazon reviews. I shall take it back to the store and see what they can do about it.


----------



## gibletzor

I got the Fiil T1X about a week ago based on how everyone here was raving about them.  They do sound really good, especially on the higher end.  My left earbud has AWFUL driver flex though, and they're not nearly as comfortable as my B530s or Liberty 2 Pros.  I might pick them up again later when they finally get their Android app done, but this set is going back...


----------



## C_Lindbergh (Dec 18, 2019)

I've been using the Bokmann 04 for a week, I think they are a rebranded Shanling. They meet 2 important critera, SQ is excellent (even tho I would have loved an extra 10% volume)  and they got an ambient mode.  But the control scheme is  incredibly stupid, if they had costed more I would have sended them back directly.

But for the asking price and the features they are decent set of TWS. The wait for the perfect TWS will continue, so for now a cheaper pair will have to do.

https://www.amazon.de/dp/B07WV29DXB/ref=sr_1_1?keywords=bokmann+04&qid=1576693594&sr=8-1-spell

I just wish some of the top names would start to take both the hardware and software seriously, its starting to happen in the Headphone ANC department, but that market is much more mature than the TWS.


----------



## pbirkett

C_Lindbergh said:


> But the biggest problem is ofc the human factor, other people will still think that you're listning to music werehas if you take an earbud out they'll now for certain that you can listen.



Agree, I did read a review of the XM3 where the reviewer said they liked the hearthrough feature but he felt incredibly rude doing so. I would probably have the same issue. I feel like I’m going to be restricted to neckbuds for my use, as I’m not really wanting to wear a big pair of cans at work (even though I have done so before). I would go back to wired but the dongles were an utter pain.


----------



## C_Lindbergh

pbirkett said:


> Agree, I did read a review of the XM3 where the reviewer said they liked the hearthrough feature but he felt incredibly rude doing so. I would probably have the same issue. I feel like I’m going to be restricted to neckbuds for my use, as I’m not really wanting to wear a big pair of cans at work (even though I have done so before). I would go back to wired but the dongles were an utter pain.



But I've noticed its becoming more "acceptable"  to keep your earbuds on, especially now with the launch of the Air Pods pro.


----------



## WesennTony

DigDub said:


> Unfortunately I think my charging case doesn't seem to be able to charge the right earbud now, which seems like a common complaint on the Amazon reviews. I shall take it back to the store and see what they can do about it.



That does not give me any confidence in QC of Aviot. My te-d01b start to develop some fainted hiss after a month of use, not dead silent anymore.


----------



## WesennTony (Dec 18, 2019)

Got libratone air+ today. They're beyond my expectation. Put on spinfit 360 and they sound every close to my Kanas pro paired with BT20S. No hiss noticeable. Tiny and comfortable. Will do more tip rolling and compare with APP when I get them on Friday.


----------



## clerkpalmer

WesennTony said:


> Got libratone air+ today. They're beyond my expectation. Put on spinfit 360 and they sound every close to my Kanas pro paired with BT20S. No hiss noticeable. Will do more tip rolling.


Interesting. You like them.  Someone above hates them.


----------



## WesennTony

clerkpalmer said:


> Interesting. You like them.  Someone above hates them.


Yeah it surprised me as well. I do find the tips and seal have big effect, though. They don't have the best sound, but better than mavin air-X at the moment.


----------



## d3myz

BigZ12 said:


> Got six pairs of JVC Spiral Dots from Penon Audio today.
> 2x M-ML-L (L was too big, and was wasted money)
> BUT, my God! The ML with the updated Lypertek Tevi!!
> 
> ...


  My man!  They really are a game changer for my TWS'. I also just got the Symbio w/ peel tips and They have a very similar effect on the mids and treble. It's amazing what they have done for the Liberty 2 pro's highs. They do reduce some bass like the spiral dots, but I feel like the deliver a more accurate sound. Glad you like them!



gibletzor said:


> I got the Fiil T1X about a week ago based on how everyone here was raving about them.  They do sound really good, especially on the higher end.  My left earbud has AWFUL driver flex though, and they're not nearly as comfortable as my B530s or Liberty 2 Pros.  I might pick them up again later when they finally get their Android app done, but this set is going back...



In my experience driver flex is caused by the seal and pressure up against the driver. I can get almost all the TWS' I own to flex if I push on the with a good seal. I don't think it's really any indication of the quality of the driver because even the Graphene drivers in the Nuarl NT01A flex when I put them in, but maybe i'm missing something.


----------



## gibletzor

d3myz said:


> In my experience driver flex is caused by the seal and pressure up against the driver. I can get almost all the TWS' I own to flex if I push on the with a good seal. I don't think it's really any indication of the quality of the driver because even the Graphene drivers in the Nuarl NT01A flex when I put them in, but maybe i'm missing something.


This was bad enough it happened with any tips I tried unless they were too small to actually make a seal.  It was a terrible crinkling and popping if I moved my jaw or flexed any of the muscles that can make your ears move.  I tried 5 different types of my favorite kinds of tips.  I don't think it's s reflection of the overall quality of the buds, but mine were for sure damaged at some point at least.


----------



## voicemaster

gibletzor said:


> This was bad enough it happened with any tips I tried unless they were too small to actually make a seal.  It was a terrible crinkling and popping if I moved my jaw or flexed any of the muscles that can make your ears move.  I tried 5 different types of my favorite kinds of tips.  I don't think it's s reflection of the overall quality of the buds, but mine were for sure damaged at some point at least.


I also get driver flex when using silicone tips. Using foam tips completely eliminate this.


----------



## webvan

chinmie said:


> does the echo buds ANC mode has a faint hissing sound?


There is pretty faint hissing sound, likely courtesy of ANR/ANC but unlike on the L2Ps or M5s it doesn't vary between tracks so its barely noticeable.


----------



## Quicky32

Has anyone tried to Jlab cloud foam tips?  I can get them locally for $10...


----------



## voicemaster

Quicky32 said:


> Has anyone tried to Jlab cloud foam tips?  I can get them locally for $10...



I just use cheap newbee foam tips and cut it in half length.


----------



## clerkpalmer (Dec 18, 2019)

Finally took my kz e10 out of the box. These sound pretty good. Better than my APP by a pretty good margin. The hybrid setup is really nice. That said, unfortunately, the cutouts are constant rendering them almost useless. I assume I’m not getting any support or warranty on these?  Kind of a shame. Fix the cutouts, add an IP rating and these would be a winner.

One more thing - these are loud. Holy cr@p.


----------



## chinmie

webvan said:


> There is pretty faint hissing sound, likely courtesy of ANR/ANC but unlike on the L2Ps or M5s it doesn't vary between tracks so its barely noticeable.



As long as it's  about the same level of that TWS hiss level, it's  tolerable. I'm  thinking getting one for a "beater ANC TWS", going to use it for riding and sports.

But this one pops up at an enticing price
https://s.click.aliexpress.com/e/DeweZsha

 

It's  been around on AE from different sellers, but this one is significantly cheaper..i wonder if it's  different version or not


----------



## willyk

d3myz said:


> My man!  They really are a game changer for my TWS'. I also just got the Symbio w/ peel tips and They have a very similar effect on the mids and treble. It's amazing what they have done for the Liberty 2 pro's highs. They do reduce some bass like the spiral dots, but I feel like the deliver a more accurate sound. Glad you like them!
> 
> 
> 
> In my experience driver flex is caused by the seal and pressure up against the driver. I can get almost all the TWS' I own to flex if I push on the with a good seal. I don't think it's really any indication of the quality of the driver because even the Graphene drivers in the Nuarl NT01A flex when I put them in, but maybe i'm missing something.



Just ordered the Peels.  Thanks for the heads-up!


----------



## HiFlight

clerkpalmer said:


> Interesting. You like them.  Someone above hates them.


Count me in the "Like" group!


----------



## FYLegend

chinmie said:


> As long as it's  about the same level of that TWS hiss level, it's  tolerable. I'm  thinking getting one for a "beater ANC TWS", going to use it for riding and sports.
> 
> But this one pops up at an enticing price
> https://s.click.aliexpress.com/e/DeweZsha
> ...


Looks like a rebrand of the YBS35 ANC which I think someone posted here earlier, but without Qi charging. A bit odd Dyplay used a rebrand/generic shell as their other TWS seemed more "unique" and has AptX. I'm using their over-ear Urban Traveler 2 now, which is great for under 100$, but it definitely has a few shortcomings. Great sound quality but when ANC is turned on it becomes very bright-sounding (though still not sibilant for me). Good treble and mids but bass a tad lacking.

Also, it looks like the Jabra 75t might be fixed at 240$ CAD on Amazon.ca now. It was fluctuating the past few days being 198$ yesterday...


----------



## chinmie

FYLegend said:


> Looks like a rebrand of the YBS35 ANC which I think someone posted here earlier, but without Qi charging. A bit odd Dyplay used a rebrand/generic shell as their other TWS seemed more "unique" and has AptX. I'm using their over-ear Urban Traveler 2 now, which is great for under 100$, but it definitely has a few shortcomings. Great sound quality but when ANC is turned on it becomes very bright-sounding (though still not sibilant for me). Good treble and mids but bass a tad lacking.
> 
> Also, it looks like the Jabra 75t might be fixed at 240$ CAD on Amazon.ca now. It was fluctuating the past few days being 198$ yesterday...



after digging through google a bit, and also contacted the Dyplay AE seller via chat, they said that their product is the same as they YBS35, and they also said that the YBS35 also doesn't support wireless charging and APTX codec.

i kinda believe the Dyplay seller, because that TWS uses Airoha chipset, and AFAIK only Qualcomm chipset would support APTX. 

also browsing the net with the Dyplay's version of device name (they uses BQC35) would get me to the OEM page

https://www.globalsources.com/gsol/...6.htm?source=CEHP_PersonalizedProd#1171203636

I'm on the edge on pressing buy  , because size-wize i think it would fit my helmet better than the Sony WF (even that thing fit fine, really) and it have a better ipx rating than the Sony.


----------



## CocaCola15

pbirkett said:


> My first foray into TW headphones is with the Cambridge Melomania 1's. I did a fair bit of research on these and it was either going to be these or the Sony XM3s.
> 
> I ended up returning them after a week. Some of its issues are more about TW headphones themselves rather than specifically to the Cambridge.
> My previous BT headphones are Anker Soundsurge headphones, which cost the princely sum of £18 a couple of years ago, but in fairness apart from the pretty poor battery life (around 4 hours tops) they seem to punch above their weight for sound quality.
> ...


Sorry to hear about your Melomania 1 experience. I’ve owned a pair for going on six months and I find that without the great fit I get with the foam tips that came with them, I could agree. But with the foam tips, they sound amazing to my ears. I owned the Sonys, returned them. Could not get enough volume out of them. 
Anyway, your M1 experience and mine show why there are so many differences of opinion when it comes to headphones. I also have the Anker Soundcore Liberty 2 Pro, love them. Don’t let a single experience sour your search for TW phones.


----------



## bronco1015

clerkpalmer said:


> Thanks.  I don't have any issues with the MW07. Probably my ears are starting to fail me.  But I agree that MTW is pretty mediocre.  These sound interesting but at $269 they better sing and they don't appear to be available in the US as Amazon is showing 2 week delivery.  I'd give them a shot if I had an easy return option.


Gotta give some love for the MTWs. IF you EQ them, they're a lot better. nothing like what they sounded like to me by default. I almost wrote them off pretty quick, then tried the app. Made a huge difference. at their current $209.13 they're not a bad option for sure.


----------



## bronco1015

Samplingentropy said:


> Not what I wanted to read, mine (my first tws)i in the mail on its way from Ali to me. =\


hope you get a good set, I ordered these for someone's Christmas present, and they arrived yesterday. Heres hoping the dudds have stopped shipping.


----------



## d3myz

gibletzor said:


> This was bad enough it happened with any tips I tried unless they were too small to actually make a seal.  It was a terrible crinkling and popping if I moved my jaw or flexed any of the muscles that can make your ears move.  I tried 5 different types of my favorite kinds of tips.  I don't think it's s reflection of the overall quality of the buds, but mine were for sure damaged at some point at least.


Yea, it def. sounds like you got a defective pair, sorry to hear that.


----------



## d3myz

Interesting observation I made today while burning in my Rev. 2 L2pros. I left the pink noise playing on the all day. I came in tonight and the right bud was at 20% and powered off. The left bud was at 60%. I know the primary bud drains faster, but really? 40% discrepancy?


----------



## webvan

chinmie said:


> As long as it's  about the same level of that TWS hiss level, it's  tolerable. I'm  thinking getting one for a "beater ANC TWS", going to use it for riding and sports.
> 
> But this one pops up at an enticing price
> https://s.click.aliexpress.com/e/DeweZsha
> ...



They're pretty ambitious with their -25dB noise reduction...some feedback from someone who's tried the XM3/APP/EB, etc... would be interesting !

That would be motorbike riding and not bike riding, right ? As you probably know you'll have to turn off ANC if any air movement is involved as the mics will pick it up and amplify it. That's ONE thing I don't like with the Echo Buds, you have to pull up the app to turn off ANR, with the buttons you can only cycle between ANR and Ambient. On the plus side turning on Ambient will automatically pause music. If they added ANR OFF it would potentially require an addition tap to get to Ambient. Or maybe they could make that app setting controllable with Alexa.


----------



## Vivonzulul (Dec 19, 2019)

Got my pair of L2Pros few days ago, bought it during the sale on soundcore site. I believe i got rev 2 according to what is said here. The hissing after pausing or playing a song is noticeable, not too apparent during song play or but very low volume still does. I updated from 1.09 out of the box to 1.22 and hissing remain unchanged. I liked listening with Latin preset for the first few days and recently changed to Flat and liked it better. Latin i think is nicely vShaped while Flat brings more details accross the frequencies. I really like what i hear from L2Pros but if only the hissing was a bit less it'd be perfect. 
How's the chance mine is rev 1 if fw 1.09 is what mine shipped with? Anyone knows?


----------



## cleg

My video about Alpha&Delta Elite


----------



## chinmie

webvan said:


> They're pretty ambitious with their -25dB noise reduction...some feedback from someone who's tried the XM3/APP/EB, etc... would be interesting !
> 
> That would be motorbike riding and not bike riding, right ? As you probably know you'll have to turn off ANC if any air movement is involved as the mics will pick it up and amplify it. That's ONE thing I don't like with the Echo Buds, you have to pull up the app to turn off ANR, with the buttons you can only cycle between ANR and Ambient. On the plus side turning on Ambient will automatically pause music. If they added ANR OFF it would potentially require an addition tap to get to Ambient. Or maybe they could make that app setting controllable with Alexa.



Yup, it's  strictly for motorcycle riding (and perhaps running, too), so direct noise won't  be too much of a problem. I finally pressed the buy button    I'll post comparison to my WF and WH XM3s when it arrived


----------



## MasterDomino

FYLegend said:


> Seems to be some good reviews on it, but they just announced the GT1 Plus which has AptX (QCC3020 chip) and USB Type C.
> 
> Has anyone here tried Atta Gora Liberté? I keep seeing ads for it.


Seems like its already being sold, i got one for like 30$ from geekbuying with european dpd shipping soo idk will see what arrives(if it does)


----------



## d3myz

cleg said:


> My video about Alpha&Delta Elite



These look pretty nice, anyone own them?


----------



## d3myz (Dec 19, 2019)

I've been doing some tip testing, with the Sony XM3, FIIL T1x, NUARL NT01A and L2Pro.

The Symbio Peel sounds fantastic on the Xm3, L2pro and the NT01A. It's really got me excited again about my XM3's!

The best for me on the T1x are the Auvio's, they really give a nice bump in the bass and let all that great clarity come through.

The Spiral dots also sound great on all of them except and they are my fav. for the NT01A except the T1x, which kind of makes them a bit too bright. They reduce the bass too much for my liking. The Symbio seems to also smooth out the highs and mids but boosts the bass a little as well, a little too bright on the T1x for me.

As for the Symbio W hybird, I found the also take a lot of bass out, so I haven't really been using them and they don't fit well in my right ear, but if you like the L2pro and think it has too much bass, firstly get the new revision, the bass is definitely reduced, the highs are bit more tame and the mids are a touch boosted and secondly use the Symbio W, will filter even more bass.

I also need to mention, that despite all the iterations and changed in the L2pro. It's still one of my favorite TWS' out of all the revision's after 8+ hours of burn in, the Revision 3 L2pro Sounds really good and i'm favoring it over the Rev. 2. 

To my ears, the Rev. 2 has more sub/low bass an the highs and mids sound thinner and the voicing sounds further away. The Rev. 3 has just a touch less bass, but the mids and highs are very present, it sound much more engaging to me.


----------



## d3myz

Edit to my earlier post. I lied. Ver. 1 of the L2pro with the Symbio W hybrid tips is my fav. Wow. Ver. 1 has ridiculous bass, but the mids and highs seem much better with firmware 1.22. The hybrid tips tame the bass just enough to give me that incredible bass experience, but also great highs and mids. This ver. 1 I have doesn't have a hiss or a high noise floor and it's MUCH louder than the other two revisions.


----------



## hifi80sman

Finally got a chance to update the L2P to the 1.22 firmware.  While I was at it, also decided to complete the HearID.  Given I was able to hear all of the sounds down to faint levels, there is basically no adjustment from flat.  However, interestingly enough, when I use the HearID EQ, it is slightly fuller than the "Flat" EQ preset (which I assume is a compensated "Flat") and sounds better than the signature preset (which is a bit too V-shaped for me).  The hiss is still faint and very tolerable.  It's not distracting when listening to songs with silent spots.


----------



## Quicky32

I need some tips for my Fiil T1X.  There’s an airy sound when I put my finger up to the controls and I can’t get a good fit with any of the cheap tips I have.  Prefer to order from Amazon because of fast shipping...


----------



## d3myz (Dec 19, 2019)

Quicky32 said:


> I need some tips for my Fiil T1X.  There’s an airy sound when I put my finger up to the controls and I can’t get a good fit with any of the cheap tips I have.  Prefer to order from Amazon because of fast shipping...



I've been meaning to try these for a while now. They look nice, but I have no idea how they'll perform.


----------



## chinmie

Quicky32 said:


> I need some tips for my Fiil T1X.  There’s an airy sound when I put my finger up to the controls and I can’t get a good fit with any of the cheap tips I have.  Prefer to order from Amazon because of fast shipping...



Does the T1X can accommodate normal IEM tips inside the charging case?


----------



## Quicky32

d3myz said:


> I've been meaning to try these for a while now. They look nice, but I have no idea how they'll perform.




They look like a firmer tip like the JVC Spiral Dots...


----------



## Mouseman

d3myz said:


> I've been meaning to try these for a while now. They look nice, but I have no idea how they'll perform.


I bought some a while back when they first came up. While they're nice, I prefer the spiral dots or Auvios, or even the Starlines. I tried them on a few IEMs, ZSX, V90, one or two more, and I didn't notice a big impact to sound. They give a nice seal but I didn't think they were anything special for the relatively high price. YMMV.


----------



## Quicky32

chinmie said:


> Does the T1X can accommodate normal IEM tips inside the charging case?




They fit with all the tips I’ve tried but it’s a tight fit with the larger wings.


----------



## Quicky32

Spinfit CP360 for $9 and Auvio for $7.56...ordered both.


----------



## LordToneeus

Picked up a pair of refurbished Powerbeats Pros for $119 from Best Buy. From what I remember of my brief time with them, they’re worth every bit of that.


----------



## bandario

I'm a long way behind here as I've been quite happy with the combination of my Brainwavz BLU-Delta that just refuse to die for exercise and my Sony WH-1000xm2 for at home listening. Anyway, I had heard how much improvement had been made in the TWS space since my last ghastly foray into this world and ended up picking up a pair of "Original" Syllable S101 from Aliexpress for $50AUD.

Well...colour me impressed. I am well aware that these came out a long while ago now, and lack some features that would now be considered basic but I'll be damned if these are not extremely impressive for a $50 pair of earbuds. 

Pairing is beyond painless, reliable and leads to a stable connection that establishes itself automatically with APT-X as soon as the lid is opened. Both earbuds stay paired to one another and have only momentarily dropped out once in the last month, quickly coming back together with a press of the button on the left (dropped side).

Sound quality is obviously not the absolute best I've ever heard, but the dual drivers do a more than handy job of pumping out everything from psychedelic trance, funk and rock to podcasts and youtube far beyond anything that I really need when I am exercising or walking around. 

They are so good, and so reliable in fact that the WH-1000xm2s only leave the house with me now if I am going on a plane. 

Battery life is fantastic for TWS buds to the point that I have not managed to run them out of battery yet and the build quality is far, far better than anything I was expecting.

So why am I here? Well, I got to thinking...if these >12 month old cheap buds are THIS GOOD, what developments have I missed in the last 12 months? 

I have dug through pages and pages of this thread but it is hard to find anything consistently noted as being the pack leader, especially around this price point. 

What would you vote as your absolute best (most reliable, best sound quality, best battery life) around the $50USD price mark as of end of Dec 2019?  Many thanks for any replies and have a merry xmas!


----------



## voicemaster

bandario said:


> I'm a long way behind here as I've been quite happy with the combination of my Brainwavz BLU-Delta that just refuse to die for exercise and my Sony WH-1000xm2 for at home listening. Anyway, I had heard how much improvement had been made in the TWS space since my last ghastly foray into this world and ended up picking up a pair of "Original" Syllable S101 from Aliexpress for $50AUD.
> 
> Well...colour me impressed. I am well aware that these came out a long while ago now, and lack some features that would now be considered basic but I'll be damned if these are not extremely impressive for a $50 pair of earbuds.
> 
> ...



Try Fiil T1X. 
For me, it has the best bluetooth connection (connecting and also stability wise) from my other tws and the best sound quality without having to EQ. The battery life is pretty standard at around 4-6 hours depending on how loud you listen to and the control might be awkward at first because it is different than many other tws out there.


----------



## d3myz

Even the L2pro version 2's sound awesome with these Symbio w peel's. I'm using the flat eq and it sounds really good.


----------



## bandario

voicemaster said:


> Try Fiil T1X.
> For me, it has the best bluetooth connection (connecting and also stability wise) from my other tws and the best sound quality without having to EQ. The battery life is pretty standard at around 4-6 hours depending on how loud you listen to and the control might be awkward at first because it is different than many other tws out there.



Thank you! those look like a nice step forward.


----------



## SoundChoice

voicemaster said:


> Try Fiil T1X.
> For me, it has the best bluetooth connection (connecting and also stability wise) from my other tws and the best sound quality without having to EQ. The battery life is pretty standard at around 4-6 hours depending on how loud you listen to and the control might be awkward at first because it is different than many other tws out there.



The ability to adjust volume on the earbuds is something that I find myself missing on other TWS. Does the million-hour burn-in process change the sound on these? It’s more of a hassle to do than a wired IEM. Stock tips are shallow, but yellow spinfits with their taller profile don’t always fit in the case. Still, I enjoy the T1X.


----------



## phiemon

Hi,

which is actually the best sounding true wireless IEM?


----------



## chinmie

phiemon said:


> Hi,
> 
> which is actually the best sounding true wireless IEM?



this would vary from person to person, depending on their sound preference. for me personally (from what I've tried) it would be the Sony XM3 and Galaxy Buds. the older Sony WF-1000X also great sounding, but i don't recommend buying unless it's really cheap, because of the older tech and features.

other honorable mentions would be the Mavin Air and Nuarl NT01AX


----------



## jlcsoft

bandario said:


> I'm a long way behind here as I've been quite happy with the combination of my Brainwavz BLU-Delta that just refuse to die for exercise and my Sony WH-1000xm2 for at home listening. Anyway, I had heard how much improvement had been made in the TWS space since my last ghastly foray into this world and ended up picking up a pair of "Original" Syllable S101 from Aliexpress for $50AUD.
> 
> Well...colour me impressed. I am well aware that these came out a long while ago now, and lack some features that would now be considered basic but I'll be damned if these are not extremely impressive for a $50 pair of earbuds.
> 
> ...



My first TWS was the syllable 101. I wasn´t really happy with the sound, I sold them and bought the tranya t3. And those sound really great, with a punchy bass, goof detail in mids and highs, good sound stage, and very good battery and connection. They fir perfect in my ears.I bought it in amazon.es for 39€, I highly reccomend it. Only a cuople of cons, no aptx, and microusb connection.


----------



## jlcsoft

voicemaster said:


> Try Fiil T1X.
> For me, it has the best bluetooth connection (connecting and also stability wise) from my other tws and the best sound quality without having to EQ. The battery life is pretty standard at around 4-6 hours depending on how loud you listen to and the control might be awkward at first because it is different than many other tws out there.



The gamesky video rewiew of those TWS comments the app didn´t work him. Does it work to you?


----------



## Aevum

I still have a pair of BA Shanling MTW100 in the mail. they are supposed to be quite good.


----------



## TYATYA

I dont find any TW that listenable w/o EQ.
Sony 1000xm3 or BO E8 is close.
Some example unit I cant listen to bcs bload bass : Sennheiser mtw, Anker liberty air 2...

How a TW sounds after tunning is critical condition to me when I buy. 
To drive a tw, regarding sound tunning, best to me is samsung phones (Note series).
Iphone6/6s is best if NO tunning is need (unlucky, I dont find a TW that good).
By using Eq and Adaptive sound of ss phone I get exceptional sound on BO E8, enough for me to become lazy touching high end e.stat inear, even at home.

Not like wired headphones which mostly sound worse with eq-ing, TW mostly get better sound if tunning it by using DSP from source and on TW unit itself.
Sony 1000xm3 is less effect (toward good side) while E8 have tons of effect.
No more strange sound imagine, no more back-drop like listening, no more bass/upper bass weaker than sub, no more laid back. Keep huge sound stage. Much more detail, forward and balance sound...

Some manufacture use nice words to say about their product, example hearID tech on Anker liberty air 2. Actually it is not.


----------



## actorlife

Hi Guys tried resetting my SSK to no avail. I used the manual method. Only one side will play. Help!


----------



## Rob E.

jlcsoft said:


> The gamesky video rewiew of those TWS comments the app didn´t work him. Does it work to you?



The Fiil app works for the iPhone, not Android. Afaik, only for the T1X. It's in the app store as "fiil+: global edition". Works fine. Good app.


----------



## d3myz

SoundChoice said:


> The ability to adjust volume on the earbuds is something that I find myself missing on other TWS. Does the million-hour burn-in process change the sound on these? It’s more of a hassle to do than a wired IEM. Stock tips are shallow, but yellow spinfits with their taller profile don’t always fit in the case. Still, I enjoy the T1X.


 It actually does make quite a difference, but the biggest difference for me is in the tips I use. I've found the Auvio's really make the T1x sound even better.


----------



## Grayson73

actorlife said:


> Hi Guys tried resetting my SSK to no avail. I used the manual method. Only one side will play. Help!



I had that problem and was able to reset it after many attempts.  I don't know how, but it finally worked.  Try doing the left first, then right, and vice versa.


----------



## C_Lindbergh

Just got home a pair of Jabra Elite 75t, they are awesome in every way, great comfort/design, nice buttons with a good control scheme, ambient mode that actually works great. 

SQ is really good except for when I play metal songs... Which I do quite a lot so I'll have to sell them anyway -.-


----------



## MasterDomino (Dec 20, 2019)

MasterDomino said:


> Seems like its already being sold, i got one for like 30$ from geekbuying with european dpd shipping soo idk will see what arrives(if it does)


I actually received the headphones and theyre sick, nice upgrade to qcy t3, really nice sounding with good battery life, was using them for last 3 hours and theyre really nice for some rock/metal. A negative is the touch controls which are weird but more sensitive than t3 less accurate tho, for some no volume control, no usb type-c and possibly no see-through top cover of the case


----------



## Blueshound24 (Dec 20, 2019)

I posted this on the Deals thread as well. Anybody know what their music sound signature is like?


50% off ATH-SPORT7TW truly wireless



> We’re having the biggest sale of the season on the ATH-SPORT7TW truly wireless headphones! Take 50% off with code HALFOFFTW on the audio-technica.com US store while supplies last.
> 
> https://www.audio-technica.com/cms/headphones/1120979bd3a753ac/index.html


----------



## voicemaster

jlcsoft said:


> The gamesky video rewiew of those TWS comments the app didn´t work him. Does it work to you?


The app only works for iOS right now. I love the sound even without EQing.


----------



## clerkpalmer

Blueshound24 said:


> I posted this on the Deals thread as well. Anybody know what their music sound signature is like?
> 
> 
> 50% off ATH-SPORT7TW truly wireless


Sound decent. V shaped fun tuning. These are very average tws overall. Lots of latency. Could do worse for 99.


----------



## NymPHONOmaniac

Hi Pals.

I wanna expand my audio horizon by opening more my mind about TWS iem so i finally know if thinking it can't deliver great sound is just bias.

Until now, im still into my ''bias''....as I only test Hifiman TWS600 and AlphaDelta fit.

*So, sincerly, wich are the very best sounding TWS iem right now priced lower than 300$?????*

I plan testin lotta them. But i don't wanna go in there blindly.

On my list: *NUARL N6PRO, LIBERTY 2PRO and Xmini Liberty+*


----------



## LordToneeus

C_Lindbergh said:


> Just got home a pair of Jabra Elite 75t, they are awesome in every way, great comfort/design, nice buttons with a good control scheme, ambient mode that actually works great.
> 
> SQ is really good except for when I play metal songs... Which I do quite a lot so I'll have to sell them anyway -.-


Nooo!!! I need them to work for metal! The 65ts were my first TWS, and I love the look of the black 75ts.


----------



## Caipirina (Dec 20, 2019)

OMG, Japan keeps impressing me in terms of being Audio Heaven for shoppers. From last year I remember that for TWS the big stores had opened and manned special counters for customers to be able to try all of their TWS offerings. This year they went a step further, today I saw extra shelf space with many many TWE just out in the open, the earbuds in little wooden bowls, like fine jewelry.


their charging cases next to them.
Those might have been dummies (or non charged originals), the signs are saying that this is just for testing the fit! There were even on occasion cases with different size ear tips. And then, if you like a fit you can still go to the counter and try the charged & cleaned version for sound.
(I witnessed one staff member going around the shelves constantly cleaning cases and try-buds)

did not bring enough time to audition stuff. But they had tons of what I would have liked to try (Nuarl 06, MW07, LP2, xm3...)! I was actually overwhelmed!!! Saw so much stuff I never even heard about before 

here, have some “Happy Plugs”


----------



## HiFlight

C_Lindbergh said:


> Just got home a pair of Jabra Elite 75t, they are awesome in every way, great comfort/design, nice buttons with a good control scheme, ambient mode that actually works great.
> 
> SQ is really good except for when I play metal songs... Which I do quite a lot so I'll have to sell them anyway -.-


Have you tried using the Sound+ app to create a personal EQ preset for metal?  You can create and save as many different personal EQ settings as you wish in addition to the factory presets.


----------



## hifi80sman

C_Lindbergh said:


> Just got home a pair of Jabra Elite 75t, they are awesome in every way, great comfort/design, nice buttons with a good control scheme, ambient mode that actually works great.
> 
> SQ is really good except for when I play metal songs... Which I do quite a lot so I'll have to sell them anyway -.-


What's the issue with Metal?  This may be a big no for me.


----------



## Coffeegeek (Dec 20, 2019)

voicemaster said:


> Try Fiil T1X.
> For me, it has the best bluetooth connection (connecting and also stability wise) from my other tws and the best sound quality without having to EQ. The battery life is pretty standard at around 4-6 hours depending on how loud you listen to and the control might be awkward at first because it is different than many other tws out there.



I just got mine from the last sale on Amazon - $43 shipped.  These are amazing!  Take it with a grain of salt because despite how long I've been a member here, I long ago realized I'm not particularly an audiophile.  But to be frank I like these better than my KZ AS10 w/bluetooth neckband.   I've not done any direct comparisons yet - only had them for 40 minutes or so, lol.  Just out of the box with no eq'ing or burn in I find them very engaging, and the connection is phenomenal.  I can walk around my entire house and even go outside and not lose the connection to my phone - 40 or 50 feet away through several walls.  These absolutely fulfill my current need, and I'm really happy that I stumbled onto them through here.

My biggest complaint is that the case has no indicator at all for charge - ie the earbuds do when you close the lid, but when you have the case plugged into USB C there is no indicator when its done charging, or frankly if it is charging at all.


----------



## voicemaster

Coffeegeek said:


> I just got mine from the last sale on Amazon - $43 shipped.  These are amazing!  Take it with a grain of salt because despite how long I've been a member here, I long ago realized I'm not particularly an audiophile.  But to be frank I like these better than my KZ AS10 w/bluetooth neckband.   I've not done any direct comparisons yet - only had them for 40 minutes or so, lol.  Just out of the box with no eq'ing or burn in I find them very engaging, and the connection is phenomenal.  I can walk around my entire house and even go outside and not lose the connection to my phone - 40 or 50 feet away through several walls.  These absolutely fulfill my current need, and I'm really happy that I stumbled onto them through here.
> 
> My biggest complaint is that the case has no indicator at all for charge - ie the earbuds do when you close the lid, but when you have the case plugged into USB C there is no indicator when its done charging, or frankly if it is charging at all.



When the case is being charged, the LED light will be constantly on and it will turned off when the case is fully charged. The LED light will blink several times when you take/put the iem back into the case to indicate the charge is low.


----------



## Coffeegeek

voicemaster said:


> When the case is being charged, the LED light will be constantly on and it will turned off when the case is fully charged. The LED light will blink several times when you take/put the iem back into the case to indicate the charge is low.



Hmmm, maybe my case came fully charged?  The LED didn't come on when I plugged the case in, but would come on briefly if I opened the lid and closed it again.  The buds seem to charge with no issues.  We will try it again after I have recharged the buds several times.


----------



## Invalid

Anyone here tried the kz offerings? The new s1/s1d and the e10 (does it still have the connection issue?)


----------



## C_Lindbergh

hifi80sman said:


> What's the issue with Metal?  This may be a big no for me.



I'm no audiophile, but to me the treble sounded both "veiled" and harsh, it just didn't sound right. 

It's a real shame because the software and hardware is the best i've tried on any true wireless. Buttons instead of touch control is sooo much better



HiFlight said:


> Have you tried using the Sound+ app to create a personal EQ preset for metal?  You can create and save as many different personal EQ settings as you wish in addition to the factory presets.



Yeah, I played around with all the presets and some of my own, but couldn't get anything that would satisfy my needs.


----------



## D3soLaT3

d3myz said:


> I've been doing some tip testing, with the Sony XM3, FIIL T1x, NUARL NT01A and L2Pro.
> 
> 
> The best for me on the T1x are the Auvio's, they really give a nice bump in the bass and let all that great clarity come through.


Good looking out. Forgot I had the Auvio's laying around. The stock large eartips from the T1x inserted way too deep in my ear causing negative pressure. I was using the mediums but wasn't getting full seal on my left side. Auvio's even fit in the case. Thanks!


----------



## d3myz

C_Lindbergh said:


> Just got home a pair of Jabra Elite 75t, they are awesome in every way, great comfort/design, nice buttons with a good control scheme, ambient mode that actually works great.
> 
> SQ is really good except for when I play metal songs... Which I do quite a lot so I'll have to sell them anyway -.-





LordToneeus said:


> Nooo!!! I need them to work for metal! The 65ts were my first TWS, and I love the look of the black 75ts.


Well, my two cents is the T1x is excellent for metal and prog. I've been listening to the first Animals As Leaders album on them today and it sounds excellent. Tips make a big difference to me, so I use the Auvio M Blue's.


----------



## LordToneeus

d3myz said:


> Well, my two cents is the T1x is excellent for metal and prog. I've been listening to the first Animals As Leaders album on them today and it sounds excellent. Tips make a big difference to me, so I use the Auvio M Blue's.


Thanks. I have been loving the T1X and the L2Ps. Only thing I’m missing is ambient. It really does come in handy.


----------



## d3myz

Well, I finally found a use for the spinfit 360's. I am testing the Alterola IE800 today. It's like a Bass and treble monster, super punchy deep bass and almost shrill highs. The mids are are good a bit recessed. Anyway, with the spinfit's the highs are much more tame and the mids are more forward and a bit more full. Bass as usual is smooshed so there's more bass and less sub bass, but with these tips these sound pretty energetic and fun. They have major connection issues. I can't even walk out of my office without them cutting out and the right side cuts out every 15 min. for a second, so they are a no buy for sure, but the sound is really pretty fun. Reminds me of the version 1 of the L2pro, but just the tuning they don't sound nearly as good as the L2pro.


----------



## d3myz

LordToneeus said:


> Thanks. I have been loving the T1X and the L2Ps. Only thing I’m missing is ambient. It really does come in handy.


I feel you, man. Once I started using Ambient on my Xm3 and APPs it's so hard to not have it. Especially because I have 3 year old twins that are loud as hell and love to scream. ANC comes in real handy too.


----------



## C_Lindbergh (Dec 20, 2019)

LordToneeus said:


> Thanks. I have been loving the T1X and the L2Ps. Only thing I’m missing is ambient. It really does come in handy.



Yeah no fast access to ambient is pretty much a deal breaker for me.

Removing an earbud when you got a cable connected to it is no big deal, but when you gotta remove a tiny true wireless bud everytime you wanna have a quick convo or whatever is a pain in the ass.

Off all the true wireless I've tested the Momentum True Wireless have had the best sound (but battery drain issue that was a deal breaker) and the Jabra 75t has had the best software/hardware if you don't count SQ. 

I just wanna combine the functionality of the Jabras with the sound of the MTW :/


----------



## Pete7874

Just received replacement L2P from Anker, supposedly the newest version; however, the bottom white label still says "Iteration 1," so I have no idea what version it really is.  Gonna have a listen tonight...


----------



## jant71

The Helm people have some new stuff coming at CES...




and


----------



## C_Lindbergh (Dec 20, 2019)

jant71 said:


> The Helm people have some new stuff coming at CES...
> 
> and



" The HELM Triple Driver True Wireless include a first of its kind intuitive rotary control dial to change tracks, pause music, access voice assistants and take phone calls. " Interesting to say the least. Even though my first reaction is that it might be difficult considering IEMs are so tiny.


----------



## hifi80sman

C_Lindbergh said:


> I'm no audiophile, but to me the treble sounded both "veiled" and harsh, it just didn't sound right.
> 
> It's a real shame because the software and hardware is the best i've tried on any true wireless. Buttons instead of touch control is sooo much better
> 
> ...


Try to lessen the 8kHz to 10kHz region and bring up the 2kHz area and see what happens.


----------



## hifi80sman

jant71 said:


> The Helm people have some new stuff coming at CES...
> 
> and


That's interesting.  I wonder how electrostatic will sound in a TWS...


----------



## clerkpalmer

Got my L2P revision 3 today. On the plus side the hiss is virtually gone. Definitely a reduction in gain. Volume is lower but still plenty loud for me. After using the APP for a few weeks I’m finding the bass overwhelming even on bass reduction. Not sure I can get used to it. It’s just too much of a good thing. Seems like more bass than before but I’d have to do a back to back.


----------



## clerkpalmer

Invalid said:


> Anyone here tried the kz offerings? The new s1/s1d and the e10 (does it still have the connection issue?)


My e10 is useless due to dropouts.


----------



## C_Lindbergh

hifi80sman said:


> Try to lessen the 8kHz to 10kHz region and bring up the 2kHz area and see what happens.



Yeah, lowering the treble actually helped a bit. Also had to lower the bass since it was overwhelming even at "flat"

Hmm might hold onto these until Sennheiser releases their MK 2.


----------



## clerkpalmer

hifi80sman said:


> That's interesting.  I wonder how electrostatic will sound in a TWS...


Yes indeed. Glad someone is taking a run at new ideas. 

Dear Audeze, please bring me a high end TWS in 2020. Pretty please. Isine tws...


----------



## d3myz

hifi80sman said:


> Try to lessen the 8kHz to 10kHz region and bring up the 2kHz area and see what happens.


You're a genius. I was playing with this EQ I got on my Mac screwing around with the T1x and I couldn't get the high end the way I like it. Sure enough, boosted the 2k and 4k a bit lower and turned the 8k down and the 16k up just a touch, These things sound really incredible, they are very EQ able.


----------



## C_Lindbergh

clerkpalmer said:


> Yes indeed. Glad someone is taking a run at new ideas.
> 
> Dear Audeze, please bring me a high end TWS in 2020. Pretty please. Isine tws...



Hope so too, the Mobious sounds incredible when using LDAC, even tho they were pretty crappy as BT headphones because of the bad battery life. 

Also they seem to have somewhat of a grip about software judging from the Mobius. 

I'd be sold if they released a non gaming BT headphone and true wireless!


----------



## d3myz

clerkpalmer said:


> Got my L2P revision 3 today. On the plus side the hiss is virtually gone. Definitely a reduction in gain. Volume is lower but still plenty loud for me. After using the APP for a few weeks I’m finding the bass overwhelming even on bass reduction. Not sure I can get used to it. It’s just too much of a good thing. Seems like more bass than before but I’d have to do a back to back.


Don't go soft on me @clerkpalmer. Bass is like butter, sure you can use too much, but can you? really?   I can't remember if you have some of those Symbio Hybrid tips? They Sap the bass right out of the L2p's and they still sound fantastic.


----------



## Quicky32 (Dec 20, 2019)

Tried my T1X at the gym this morning and still couldn’t get a good consistent seal.  They sound better when I don’t push them in deep but I’m afraid they will fall out.  Hopefully the new tips help...


----------



## d3myz

Just experienced the L2pro in Aptx for the first time.  It's kind of magical. Also, Finally after a week of burning in my new T1x's I've been listening to them. The burn in really stretched out the low end and the mids sound thicker. They don't go as low as the L2pro, but they still have great low and some sub bass. 

So today, my top 3 are the XM3's, L2pro rev. 3 and the T1x, closely followed by the NT01A, which take some eq'ing to clean them up a little, because they are a little sluggish.

 And if I haven't said this before, The Air Pods Pro IMO are really far superior to the XM3 in transparency/ambient mode and ANC. Anyone with these two also have the Amazon Buds? or any other ANC TWS?


----------



## TYATYA

Caipirina said:


> OMG, Japan keeps impressing me in terms of being Audio Heaven for shoppers. From last year I remember that for TWS the big stores had opened and manned special counters for customers to be able to try all of their TWS offerings. This year they went a step further, today I saw extra shelf space with many many TWE just out in the open, the earbuds in little wooden bowls, like fine jewelry.
> 
> their charging cases next to them.
> Those might have been dummies (or non charged originals), the signs are saying that this is just for testing the fit! There were even on occasion cases with different size ear tips. And then, if you like a fit you can still go to the counter and try the charged & cleaned version for sound.
> ...



Store appears in picture seems to be in 2F of a building beside Tokyo Shinkansen station.
World of electronic devices!


----------



## d3myz

Pete7874 said:


> Just received replacement L2P from Anker, supposedly the newest version; however, the bottom white label still says "Iteration 1," so I have no idea what version it really is.  Gonna have a listen tonight...


Soooo. I'm still in contact with anker, trying to sort out my returns and what not. They told me the serial number is on the charging case tab, you'll need to pull it out and it's on the back. 

To give you an idea. My version 1 starts with 1939, Version 2 starts with 1943 and my newest version ver. 3 starts wtih 1947.


----------



## TYATYA

On aptX mode, liberty air 2 expose tons of noise. It wont sounds as the tone should be.
7k notes and above worst on aptx.
Best is acc, that I can not identy any distort (I am not a robot or machine).
In tracks, much more signal play at same moment so it complex enough to masking each other... point out distort is much hard,I can not.

The app in pic is Tone generator on ggplay.
It helps pointting out problem of your audio path, from your source to your EARS (not other human ears, not dummy ear or any human ear shape stuffs).

 


In this app, using 10 signal at a time, I still hear distortion.


----------



## webvan

d3myz said:


> And if I haven't said this before, The Air Pods Pro IMO are really far superior to the XM3 in transparency/ambient mode and ANC. Anyone with these two also have the Amazon Buds? or any other ANC TWS?



I no longer have the APPs and XM3s (or the LTA+) but I've kept the Echo Buds which goes some ways to answering your question I suppose  They're not perfect but to me the Echo Buds offer the best combo in terms of SQ/Isolation/Ambient/Fit/Look/Price. I've written about them and the others in detail before but if you have any specific questions, feel free


----------



## webvan

d3myz said:


> Soooo. I'm still in contact with anker, trying to sort out my returns and what not. They told me the serial number is on the charging case tab, you'll need to pull it out and it's on the back.
> 
> To give you an idea. My version 1 starts with 1939, Version 2 starts with 1943 and my newest version ver. 3 starts wtih 1947.



Huh, I have 1945xx !


----------



## Pete7874

Pete7874 said:


> Just received replacement L2P from Anker, supposedly the newest version; however, the bottom white label still says "Iteration 1," so I have no idea what version it really is.  Gonna have a listen tonight...


These were on Firmware 1.17 when I received them.  I updated them to 1.22.

Honestly, I cannot tell any difference in sound quality between these and my previous L2P.  The hiss is still there.  Not annoying, but noticeable.  And treble is still way too hot for my liking, even when using the Treble Reducer EQ.    

I seriously need to try some other TWS at this point.  Any suggestions?


----------



## voicemaster

I don't really care about ANC on tws tbh because even using my t1x and other tws except airpods, they already isolate the noise pretty significantly to me. Now, ambient noise thru is more important as you don't have to take off your tws when talking to people. Hopefully, just like any other technology, this ambient noise thru will be available to tws that cost under $100 soon.


----------



## howdy

Rockin the Power beats pro today with some Zac Brown!


----------



## voicemaster

Pete7874 said:


> These were on Firmware 1.17 when I received them.  I updated them to 1.22.
> 
> Honestly, I cannot tell any difference in sound quality between these and my previous L2P.  The hiss is still there.  Not annoying, but noticeable.  And treble is still way too hot for my liking, even when using the Treble Reducer EQ.
> 
> I seriously need to try some other TWS at this point.  Any suggestions?



Fiil t1x bruh


----------



## Caipirina

TYATYA said:


> Store appears in picture seems to be in 2F of a building beside Tokyo Shinkansen station.
> World of electronic devices!


It was at 3F BicCamera in Shinjuku


----------



## chinmie

voicemaster said:


> I don't really care about ANC on tws tbh because even using my t1x and other tws except airpods, they already isolate the noise pretty significantly to me. Now, ambient noise thru is more important as you don't have to take off your tws when talking to people. Hopefully, just like any other technology, this ambient noise thru will be available to tws that cost under $100 soon.



I used to feel the same way, but after some time using ANC enabled earphones, it become a bit of a critical criteria for me for my future wireless gear purchases. Using the XM3 to the mall last weekend, and i literally can feel sleepy and at peace sitting there with crowd noises and the blaring sound of the live music.

Ambient mode is also important but is secondary for me, as i can easily remove one to talk to people. Also with regular non ANC devices, i usually can still hear and have conversation if i stop the music.



d3myz said:


> And if I haven't said this before, The Air Pods Pro IMO are really far superior to the XM3 in transparency/ambient mode and ANC. Anyone with these two also have the Amazon Buds? or any other ANC TWS?



Sadly it hasn't been sold officially in my country, and private sellers put a high price tag on their's. Went so far to scour my neighboring country, but so far can't find one as it's been sold out. I might sell my WHXM3 headphone once i got the APP for my wife, because as good as the WH performance goes, i prefer to travel light

Heck, even if that BQC35 ANC TWS works decent enough, i might still sell the WH


----------



## Pete7874

d3myz said:


> To give you an idea. My version 1 starts with 1939, Version 2 starts with 1943 and my newest version ver. 3 starts wtih 1947.


Thanks.  I was wondering about that.  My original L2P were 1944.  The ones they just sent me are 1948.


----------



## georgelai57

ANC was never critical to me years ago as airplane noise, train noise etc, never seemed to stop me having a snooze or listening to, and enjoying, my music. In fact I found those noises rhythmic!

Now as the years pass, what annoys me is the incessant voices of large crowds, blaring background advertisements in malls, etc. I used to wear my custom IEMs and whilst passive isolation is good, let’s be honest - in between tracks, I can still hear those nuisances. Sometimes I can still keep track of a conversation next to me even in between songs. 

ANC is now a must have. At least for me.


----------



## C_Lindbergh

I must say that the Jabra's sounds fine with just SBC connected to my PC, my bluetooth dongle doesn't support AAC, I havn't found any that do.


----------



## Blueshound24 (Dec 20, 2019)

clerkpalmer said:


> Sound decent. V shaped fun tuning. These are very average tws overall. Lots of latency. Could do worse for 99.



I wonder how they compare musically to the mw07 or L2P, I don't care about latency, call quality, etc?


----------



## Pete7874

Pete7874 said:


> These were on Firmware 1.17 when I received them.  I updated them to 1.22.
> 
> Honestly, I cannot tell any difference in sound quality between these and my previous L2P.  The hiss is still there.  Not annoying, but noticeable.  And treble is still way too hot for my liking, even when using the Treble Reducer EQ.
> 
> I seriously need to try some other TWS at this point.  Any suggestions?


Thinking about this some more, I think my issues with L2P are related to poor fit in my ears.  Tried all the various tips, and still not getting good seal, and this causes bass to be weak and highs to be overblown.  When I press them into my ears with my fingers, things improve, but there is no way in hell they could stay pressed in like this on their own.


----------



## voicemaster

georgelai57 said:


> ANC was never critical to me years ago as airplane noise, train noise etc, never seemed to stop me having a snooze or listening to, and enjoying, my music. In fact I found those noises rhythmic!
> 
> Now as the years pass, what annoys me is the incessant voices of large crowds, blaring background advertisements in malls, etc. I used to wear my custom IEMs and whilst passive isolation is good, let’s be honest - in between tracks, I can still hear those nuisances. Sometimes I can still keep track of a conversation next to me even in between songs.
> 
> ANC is now a must have. At least for me.


Well the beauty about tws is they are wireless. You could put this over your tws lol


----------



## voicemaster

Or you can use sony/bose headphone over your tws and get double noise reduction. Lol


----------



## cwill

Does anyone else feel like the FIIL T1X is lacking in bass? Are you turning the bass up on yours? I'm not able to with the Spotify EQ. It doesn't work. And the Android app doesn't work.


----------



## Caipirina

LordToneeus said:


> Picked up a pair of refurbished Powerbeats Pros for $119 from Best Buy. From what I remember of my brief time with them, they’re worth every bit of that.


Makes me feel good about wanting to get them too. Should be able to get them very gently used at e-earphone for 150$. 
119$ is better of course 

wonder if their smooth bass will ‘wow’ me again


----------



## voicemaster

cwill said:


> Does anyone else feel like the FIIL T1X is lacking in bass? Are you turning the bass up on yours? I'm not able to with the Spotify EQ. It doesn't work. And the Android app doesn't work.


After burn-in, the bass quantity will be reduced. It is enough for me tho. I don't EQ mine at all.


----------



## actorlife

Yall see this?
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/fii...now-giving-your-earphones-a-new-voice.921574/


----------



## voicemaster

actorlife said:


> Yall see this?
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/fii...now-giving-your-earphones-a-new-voice.921574/


It is kinda look like a re-branded TRN bt20s. It does looks fancier tho.


----------



## actorlife

Grayson73 said:


> I had that problem and was able to reset it after many attempts.  I don't know how, but it finally worked.  Try doing the left first, then right, and vice versa.


I tried a bunch of times. I guess I'll keep trying since are not available anymore.


----------



## chinmie

actorlife said:


> Yall see this?
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/fii...now-giving-your-earphones-a-new-voice.921574/



yes, it does offer volume control compared to the BT20S, but soundwise i suspect they would be the same (noise and all). if i don't have the BT20S already, i would definitely choose the Fiio version


----------



## clerkpalmer (Dec 20, 2019)

d3myz said:


> Don't go soft on me @clerkpalmer. Bass is like butter, sure you can use too much, but can you? really?   I can't remember if you have some of those Symbio Hybrid tips? They Sap the bass right out of the L2p's and they still sound fantastic.


I do not but I will order some based on your recommendation. Everything else about the sq is excellent.  Edit - butter is a food group in my house. As is beer.


----------



## clerkpalmer

voicemaster said:


> It is kinda look like a re-branded TRN bt20s. It does looks fancier tho.


This is a good opportunity to ask if anyone can recommend a nice new iem to pair with a bt20s. I sold the kxxs because if I felt they needed more power than bt20 offered. Anyone have an ideal pairing to recommend.


----------



## Caipirina (Dec 20, 2019)

Invalid said:


> Anyone here tried the kz offerings? The new s1/s1d and the e10 (does it still have the connection issue?)


Don’t forget the T1, their first offering. In terms of sound I very much like both, the T1 and the E10. But both have some shortcomings:
The T1 has no IPX rating and a weird ‘volume hump’ , like there is nothing between 30% and 60%.
A lot of users report connection issues with the E10. Guess I got lucky as I do not experience those. Again no IPX rating, so, also not usable for running. Also somehow uncomfortable to wear and put on / keep on.

I just saw that my green S1 shipped today. Will review after winter break. Curious to hear whoever gets it first and what they have to say.


----------



## voicemaster (Dec 20, 2019)

clerkpalmer said:


> This is a good opportunity to ask if anyone can recommend a nice new iem to pair with a bt20s. I sold the kxxs because if I felt they needed more power than bt20 offered. Anyone have an ideal pairing to recommend.



Blon bl03 is good, kz zsx is good too. If you want a more expensive set, I have the jvc fx850 and 1100 paired with bt20s and it is good too. Of course, if you compare using bt20s vs amping than amping will always be better. But if you are on the go alot, having wireless is much better than using cable imho. And you won't even do critical listening when you are walking on the street or even riding a subway/bus.


----------



## clerkpalmer

voicemaster said:


> Blon bl03 is good, kz zsx is good too. If you want a more expensive set, I have the jvc fx850 and 1100 paired with bt20s and it is good too. Of course, if you compare using bt20s vs amping than amping will always be better. But if you are on the go alot, having wireless is much better than using cable imho. And you won't even do critical listening when you are walking on the street or even riding a subway/bus.


Thanks. Had been eyeing the blon. Or maybe the tin t4. I have tfz no3 which pairs very well.


----------



## X-Nemesis

Meanwhile in Canada for the low low price of $190

https://www.amazon.ca/Bluetooth-Hea...r_1_1?keywords=fiil+t1x&qid=1576903769&sr=8-1


----------



## voicemaster

X-Nemesis said:


> Meanwhile in Canada for the low low price of $190
> 
> https://www.amazon.ca/Bluetooth-Hea...r_1_1?keywords=fiil+t1x&qid=1576903769&sr=8-1


Holy crap!!


----------



## C_Lindbergh

https://www.digitaltrends.com/home-...ue-wireless-earbuds-specs-price-release-date/ 

I hope Sennheiser will unveil them at CES 2020! I don't care much for noise canceling, but if they fix all the problems that MK I had with other refinements like better battery life and mic i'll be sold


----------



## SilverEars (Dec 21, 2019)

C_Lindbergh said:


> https://www.digitaltrends.com/home-...ue-wireless-earbuds-specs-price-release-date/
> 
> I hope Sennheiser will unveil them at CES 2020! I don't care much for noise canceling, but if they fix all the problems that MK I had with other refinements like better battery life and mic i'll be sold


It's good that ANC is becoming a trend for TWS.  I don't however have high expectation from Sennheiser on their ANC performance, but I hope they surprise me like Apple did.  I hope for good sized fit that don't slide out from physical activity movements.

After APP, ANC is a must feature to get me interested.


----------



## RobinFood (Dec 21, 2019)

I went out to try the Nuarl m6 pro today to see if it was worth upgrading my NT01AX over.

First thing I thought listening to them was how absolutely amazing the mids and vocals were! I was just blown away. Not just the best mids I have heard in a true wireless set, but the best mids I have heard every. Absolutely amazing and realistic, super detailed. The imaging and soundstage is even better too, you get that surprise feeling hearing stuff coming fast right or left. The bass is nice and punchy, much quicker, and the highs are very detailed, but everything stays a step behind those amazing mids.

I then tried the liberty pro 2 that were sitting next them. The mids were not nearly as good, but that bass! What the hell is that? They are the heaviest bass I have heard in my life but they don't make the other areas suffer. That is the heaviest bass ever! They still maintain decent mids and good highs, but nothing sticks out like fast bass.

Then lastly I tried the new true wireless set by advanced. The Advanced M5-TWS. They  look like custom earphones. They look so beautiful. They also fit like custom buds... Like a glove. Unfortunately after listening to the last two buds, they didn't have the bass if the Soundcore, or the mids or highs of the Nuarl, and just sounded above average in all sectors and rather neutral, nothing sounded as amazing. I guess the fit and the amazing look is what they are about. Unfortunately for the look they kind of dog themselves in the foot and have an led blink at all times under the semi clear shell that uses touch controls, so not easy at all to cover up. I just find the always blinking buds so douchy in the train and inconvenient in the bed room.

Well, I really want this new Nuarls now. Next mission will be convincing the wife to let me upgrade my current NT01AX for 10,000 yen with their trade up program

Conclusion, the m6 pro is a definite step up from the NT01AX. The mids, imaging and soundstage are all a good level up. NT01AX has heavier bass but it's much slower.


----------



## Caipirina

RobinFood said:


> I went out to try the Nuarl m6 pro today to see if it was worth upgrading my NT01AX over.
> 
> First thing I thought listening to them was how absolutely amazing the mids and vocals were! I was just blown away. Not just the best mids I have heard in a true wireless set, but the best mids I have heard every. Absolutely amazing and realistic, super detailed. The imaging and soundstage is even better too, you get that surprise feeling hearing stuff coming fast right or left. The bass is nice and punchy, much quicker, and the highs are very detailed, but everything stays a step behind those amazing mids.
> 
> ...



ありがと！
great, now I have to listen to the Nuarl as well.  
Somehow I really like the look of the brown / copper ones. 

these are the advanced? Interesting look, but 24900¥ .... takaiiiii!!


----------



## clerkpalmer

Is the fit if n6 pro the same? I had some fit issues with them. The stabilizer wing seemed flimsy and useless.


----------



## RobinFood (Dec 21, 2019)

clerkpalmer said:


> Is the fit if n6 pro the same? I had some fit issues with them. The stabilizer wing seemed flimsy and useless.



The fit is slightly better, but they still stick out about the same. I felt that they were easier to put in and have slightly better isolation than the NT01AX. Both fit better than the lp2 pro.

I say slightly better but feel that it fits make a big difference. Just don't expect low profile.

The wings feel useless but they are working well. Stick them in and they disappear. Stick them out and you have fit issues.

Overall I felt that they sat deeper in the ears.


----------



## Grayson73

actorlife said:


> I tried a bunch of times. I guess I'll keep trying since are not available anymore.



Try doing it with your phone bluetooth off so that it doesn't try to pair.  I think what you're trying to do is get them so that they say that they see each other (forgot the exact word).  Otherwise, your phone sees 2 of them and connects to one.


----------



## casper88

anyone can tell me mw07 plus still have white noise? coz the old one have this problem. thx


----------



## clerkpalmer

casper88 said:


> anyone can tell me mw07 plus still have white noise? coz the old one have this problem. thx


Also anyone try mw07 plus over iOS versus android and can tell a difference in sq?


----------



## casper88

anyone can tell me mw07 plus still have white noise? coz the old one have this problem, thx


----------



## casper88

del


----------



## eric0531

actorlife said:


> Yall see this?
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/fii...now-giving-your-earphones-a-new-voice.921574/



I'll be keeping an eye out for some reviews on these, I'd love to be able to use my Brainwavz B400s part of a tws solution.


----------



## magi44ken

Did you get a chance to test the mic quality and see if there is any improvement to MY Pro compare to previous version? How is the mic in previous version?




RobinFood said:


> I went out to try the Nuarl m6 pro today to see if it was worth upgrading my NT01AX over.
> 
> First thing I thought listening to them was how absolutely amazing the mids and vocals were! I was just blown away. Not just the best mids I have heard in a true wireless set, but the best mids I have heard every. Absolutely amazing and realistic, super detailed. The imaging and soundstage is even better too, you get that surprise feeling hearing stuff coming fast right or left. The bass is nice and punchy, much quicker, and the highs are very detailed, but everything stays a step behind those amazing mids.
> 
> ...


----------



## RobinFood

Caipirina said:


> ありがと！
> great, now I have to listen to the Nuarl as well.
> Somehow I really like the look of the brown / copper ones.
> 
> these are the advanced? Interesting look, but 24900¥ .... takaiiiii!!



Yes, those are the ones. Beautiful shells and perfect fit. I really wish they had put the led somewhere where it wasn't visible outside or stopped it from closing when listening to music. It really cheapens the look they were going for.

Also going for the custom look but stuffing a dynamic driver in there, I think with a balanced armature they could have squeezed better mids from them and kept their custom theme.

The case was also plastic. I get that I if it had been metal it would have been super heavy, but it looked like the paint wouldn't hold up the fake metal look for long.


----------



## d3myz

cwill said:


> Does anyone else feel like the FIIL T1X is lacking in bass? Are you turning the bass up on yours? I'm not able to with the Spotify EQ. It doesn't work. And the Android app doesn't work.


Burn them in. Trust me. but mine have great bass in Bass EQ mode and I hooked them to my macbook and eq'd them on there as well. it worked like a charm.


----------



## d3myz

voicemaster said:


> After burn-in, the bass quantity will be reduced. It is enough for me tho. I don't EQ mine at all.


I had the opposite experience. I have more bass after 2600 minutes of burn in, better mids and the highs aren't quite as bright, but still excellent.


----------



## voicemaster

d3myz said:


> I had the opposite experience. I have more bass after 2600 minutes of burn in, better mids and the highs aren't quite as bright, but still excellent.



I think it's more like the bass tighten up and there is less boomy bass on them so it might "appear" the bass is gone but its not.


----------



## d3myz

RobinFood said:


> Yes, those are the ones. Beautiful shells and perfect fit. I really wish they had put the led somewhere where it wasn't visible outside or stopped it from closing when listening to music. It really cheapens the look they were going for.
> 
> Also going for the custom look but stuffing a dynamic driver in there, I think with a balanced armature they could have squeezed better mids from them and kept their custom theme.
> 
> The case was also plastic. I get that I if it had been metal it would have been super heavy, but it looked like the paint wouldn't hold up the fake metal look for long.


I had the advanced, paid $130 for them and thought they weren't great. No volume controls, slightly above ave. sound, lackluster bass and The case wouldn't open without me pushing them down, the presentation and unboxing was super underwhelming. They are retailing for $250. I would maybe pay $50-70 for them after they work out all the manufacturing kinks, the fit was amazing.


----------



## Caipirina

RobinFood said:


> Yes, those are the ones. Beautiful shells and perfect fit. I really wish they had put the led somewhere where it wasn't visible outside or stopped it from closing when listening to music. It really cheapens the look they were going for.
> 
> Also going for the custom look but stuffing a dynamic driver in there, I think with a balanced armature they could have squeezed better mids from them and kept their custom theme.
> 
> The case was also plastic. I get that I if it had been metal it would have been super heavy, but it looked like the paint wouldn't hold up the fake metal look for long.



this really does not sound like something that should cost 24800¥!!!
And I will never understand why Chinese designers are so LED happy. I agree that this makes most TWS look cheap. 

but give it a nice look and you can ask for silly money in Japan, like those ‘Happy Plugs’ I saw, which to me look like i7s cheap colorized AirPods clones in nicer cases for 11000¥ ... crazy.


----------



## assassin10000

My Tronsmart Spunky Beats showed up today. These things are fairly small, smaller width wise than my old QC1's and fit better too.

No blinking lights, when playing music. Volume controls work (left up, right down). No connection issues for me thus far.

Been listening to them for about an hour. Pleasantly surprised by the SQ, well balanced.


----------



## HiFlight

clerkpalmer said:


> This is a good opportunity to ask if anyone can recommend a nice new iem to pair with a bt20s. I sold the kxxs because if I felt they needed more power than bt20 offered. Anyone have an ideal pairing to recommend.


The Nature Sound NS3 available from Penon Audio is a superb pairing with the BT20S if your BT is the 2-pin version.


----------



## Blueshound24 (Dec 21, 2019)

Aarghh!! One of my fears has happened! I set down my MW07's somewhere and I can't find them! I'm a dork.


----------



## tma6

RobinFood said:


> I went out to try the Nuarl m6 pro today to see if it was worth upgrading my NT01AX over.
> 
> First thing I thought listening to them was how absolutely amazing the mids and vocals were! I was just blown away. Not just the best mids I have heard in a true wireless set, but the best mids I have heard every. Absolutely amazing and realistic, super detailed. The imaging and soundstage is even better too, you get that surprise feeling hearing stuff coming fast right or left. The bass is nice and punchy, much quicker, and the highs are very detailed, but everything stays a step behind those amazing mids.
> 
> ...



Thanks for the great first impressions! Any chance you got to try the regular n6 as well?


----------



## Darkestred

tma6 said:


> Thanks for the great first impressions! Any chance you got to try the regular n6 as well?



Damn.  That is a very enticing read.  I have the Noble Falcons and have been hearing good things about the other Nuarls but that price tag...yowsa.  Imma wait until better tech goes into the next gen of TWS before i shift to that price range.


----------



## HiFlight

New firmware for Libratone Track Air+.  Added audio, ANC and phone improvements plus support for AAC.  Also added option to configure 3rd tap  on both sides.


----------



## clerkpalmer

Blueshound24 said:


> Aarghh!! One of my fears has happened! I set down my MW07's somewhere and I can't find them! I'm a dork.


Sorry. Good luck. Hopefully they turn up.


----------



## Blueshound24

clerkpalmer said:


> Sorry. Good luck. Hopefully they turn up.




Thank you, they did turn up!
The were lost in the sofa, in between the seat cushions!


----------



## RobinFood

tma6 said:


> Thanks for the great first impressions! Any chance you got to try the regular n6 as well?



I didn't try the regular n6. It was next to the pro but based on the reviews it has a more bass heavy sound signature like the NT01AX so I wasn't very interested in it. I mostly wanted to hear the new neutral sound sig of the pro and compare it to the Soundcore that has been getting a lot of praise.


----------



## RobinFood

magi44ken said:


> Did you get a chance to test the mic quality and see if there is any improvement to MY Pro compare to previous version? How is the mic in previous version?



Sorry, I didn't test out the mic, I'm not a big phone talker. I have PTSD working call centers through University.


----------



## tlau1125

RobinFood said:


> I went out to try the Nuarl m6 pro today to see if it was worth upgrading my NT01AX over.


At which store did you audition them?


----------



## Caipirina

Another little ‘Japan is overwhelming’ TWS report. Went to e-earphone, which has always been my go-to shop for gently used earphones. To my surprise they have expanded and are now occupying 2 floors in the same building, one dedicated to used items. And boy, not only selection, but the sheer numbers are crazy ... looking for AirPods?


 
Or how about Sony xm3? 
 
well, I was hoping they still might have a pair of Powerbeats Pro ... nope, they had like 20 of them ... and many others 

 

unfortunately the one staff member with English skills was hogged by a group of very demanding foreigners and he already looked appropriately annoyed ... I might try again on a weekday ...


----------



## RobinFood

tlau1125 said:


> At which store did you audition them?



I tried them at the e-earphones in Nipponbashi Osaka.


----------



## Caipirina

RobinFood said:


> I tried them at the e-earphones in Nipponbashi Osaka.



I actually got to try them very briefly today as well at e-earphone Akihabara, but only for fit, as it was too busy & noisy. And I agree what someone said before, those rubber wings are flimsy  

Tried also to 'detect' the ANC in the Sony XM3, even had the app downloaded, but somehow .. either it only works on things like plane / train noise (and not frantic shopping background) or I really did stuff wrong with the app / the earphones ... there was no 'wow' effect like I get with the APP every single time ... 

Needless to say, I was not impressed by the fit with either ... 

On the other hand, I am so happy that (i think it was @webvan ) kept pushing me towards my Sabbath X12 for running ... and today I did the (nearly) ultimate endurance test on a 32K (20Mi) run. Started with battery at 90% (not sure why it was not at 100) and after 3h it still had 40%. Fine music SQ (No thumping!) and enough ambient sound coming in for safety. These will be my buds for potential next marathon.


----------



## webvan

Caipirina said:


> I actually got to try them very briefly today as well at e-earphone Akihabara, but only for fit, as it was too busy & noisy. And I agree what someone said before, those rubber wings are flimsy
> 
> Tried also to 'detect' the ANC in the Sony XM3, even had the app downloaded, but somehow .. either it only works on things like plane / train noise (and not frantic shopping background) or I really did stuff wrong with the app / the earphones ... there was no 'wow' effect like I get with the APP every single time ...
> 
> ...



Yep I honestly can't see how a better TWE could be made for running than the X12 or even for around the house listening. I'm glad I have a spare pair but annoyed that this shady Amazon marketplace seller cancelled my X12 Ultra order I had bagged for 29€ !


----------



## LordToneeus

Caipirina said:


> Another little ‘Japan is overwhelming’ TWS report. Went to e-earphone, which has always been my go-to shop for gently used earphones. To my surprise they have expanded and are now occupying 2 floors in the same building, one dedicated to used items. And boy, not only selection, but the sheer numbers are crazy ... looking for AirPods?
> 
> 
> Or how about Sony xm3?
> ...


It’s like the Chocolate Room from Willy Wonka and the Chocolate Factory! Pure bliss!


----------



## LordToneeus

Opened a new pair of KZ ZSN’s this morning (10 year old inherited last pair). My goodness, we still have a way to go! I haven’t heard anything yet that compares with these $14 wired earbuds. 

I have a pair of TRN BT20S on the way to pair with these. Fingers crossed.


----------



## Caipirina

webvan said:


> Yep I honestly can't see how a better TWE could be made for running than the X12 or even for around the house listening. I'm glad I have a spare pair but annoyed that this shady Amazon marketplace seller cancelled my X12 Ultra order I had bagged for 29€ !



There's still one shop on aliX selling the pro (non ultra) for 31USD, but you already have a spare


----------



## hifi80sman

Not sure is someone already posted this, but the mifo 07 is now available at Amazon (Prime).
https://www.amazon.com/mifo-O7-Cancelling-Headphones-Waterproof/dp/B07ZSFN5XL/


----------



## Quicky32

The Spinfits and Auvios need to get here fast.  The T1X sounds like crap and hurts my ears because I can hear a whistling sound from leaking.


----------



## clerkpalmer

hifi80sman said:


> Not sure is someone already posted this, but the mifo 07 is now available at Amazon (Prime).
> https://www.amazon.com/mifo-O7-Cancelling-Headphones-Waterproof/dp/B07ZSFN5XL/


Pricey.  Are they that good?


----------



## mattedialdoc

Quicky32 said:


> The Spinfits and Auvios need to get here fast.  The T1X sounds like crap and hurts my ears because I can hear a whistling sound from leaking.



whoa that’s the first I’ve heard someone say that! I could wrap a piece a bacon around them for a tip and they would still sound better than most!!


----------



## voicemaster (Dec 22, 2019)

mattedialdoc said:


> whoa that’s the first I’ve heard someone say that! I could wrap a piece a bacon around them for a tip and they would still sound better than most!!



Well not all ears created equal lol.


----------



## Meanstreak242

mattedialdoc said:


> whoa that’s the first I’ve heard someone say that! I could wrap a piece a bacon around them for a tip and they would still sound better than most!!



Wow, bacon wrapped IEMs.  I'm sold.


----------



## SoundChoice

Meanstreak242 said:


> Wow, bacon wrapped IEMs.  I'm sold.



they feature dyn-ham-ic drivers


----------



## cwill

Meanstreak242 said:


> Wow, bacon wrapped IEMs.  I'm sold.


Confirmed. Sounds and tastes great.


----------



## jant71

You guys talkin' about these...


----------



## hifi80sman

clerkpalmer said:


> Pricey.  Are they that good?


Looks like they have a dual BA setup, but I’ve not tried them yet.  Hoping someone will take a shot.


----------



## clerkpalmer

hifi80sman said:


> Looks like they have a dual BA setup, but I’ve not tried them yet.  Hoping someone will take a shot.


Is that Paul Stanley? Or you ...


----------



## albau

Searching for under $100 but decent sounding travel TWS with Qi (wireless charging), BT5, USB-C and volume control. Are these TOZO T6 or Aukey Series T10 or T10s (with bigger drivers) any good?


----------



## FYLegend (Dec 23, 2019)

Finally got my hands on the Tronsmart Onyx Neos. Seems like Tronsmart Official dropshipped it through "Geekbuy". Not sure if Geekbuy is the same as Geekbuying.
 
First impressions:
- Maybe I have a cold, but I think I might have received yet another left-side-treble-heavy TWS from Aliexpress, though if there is a mismatch it's not bad as it was on the Sabbat E12 Ultra I received.
- Solid connection but I will need to test them in a busier area. As I don't have a TWS+ supporting device, I can only test these with master-slave connection. Not a fan of the QCC3020's cumbersome mono mode switching, as on the Sabbat E12 Ultra, but at least the Tronsmart has them labelled left and right. On my Windows Laptop, it seems I can't have two QCC3020 devices running at the same time without interference.
- Awful flat/shallow eartips that are difficult to switch as the nozzle seems wide - immediately switched them to normal IEM tips which readily fit and  are more comfortable. I find it odd the box render shows a typical IEM tip.
- Tuning is relatively balanced with some mid and treble emphasis, leaner and less bassy than Sabbat E12 but the mids and treble seem similar. However, they sound a tad grainy and have a mediocre noise floor, as well as some buzzing/clipping.
- Case supports USB Type-C to Type-C connection so you can charge it directly off a Type C laptop. Nice to see budget manufacturers not cheap out on this.
- These use touch controls which are a tad sensitive, especially frustrating when you are trying to change eartips - you may sometimes accidentally power one side off if you hold it too long. I'm glad to report that these have left-down right-up volume control via a double-tap, while previous/next track is triple-tap left or right respectively. I do find the track change triple tap a tad cumbersome and rather it switched around with the double-tap (or better yet, hold).

EDIT: Something is off about the battery... Maybe I need to give it some time to charge but I abruptly got a Battery Low warning despite them seemingly being fully charged. I did notice that out of the box, the left bud was already hissing and said "pairing" when I was wearing it in my ears (_before_ putting it in the case).


----------



## hifi80sman

clerkpalmer said:


> Is that Paul Stanley? Or you ...


One and the same?


----------



## hifi80sman

FYI, Best Buy has the L2 for $59.


----------



## sarv

Got the new 1more ANC today, tryna figure out how to get a good seal, anyone knows which tips worked best for the older ones?


----------



## ukbiker

Hi, I received the replacement Libery 2 Pro today (serial starting 1947) from Anker which was supposed to fix the hiss/white noise. I still hear it there and to be honest it doesn't sound much different than the previous L2P I had which I sent back (that was also serial starting 1947). It's asking me to update my firmware which is currently on 1.17.  I read elsewhere that this will probably take it to 1.22 and that this is not a good idea as  it sounds worse and cannot be undone. Anyway I'm wondering whether this is all a waste of time and if they just sent me a placebo replacement.  Has anyone had any joy in getting a better product out of them?  Is it worth upgrading the firmware? Cheers!


----------



## Pete7874 (Dec 23, 2019)

ukbiker said:


> Hi, I received the replacement Libery 2 Pro today (serial starting 1947) from Anker which was supposed to fix the hiss/white noise. I still hear it there and to be honest it doesn't sound much different than the previous L2P I had which I sent back (that was also serial starting 1947). It's asking me to update my firmware which is currently on 1.17.  I read elsewhere that this will probably take it to 1.22 and that this is not a good idea as  it sounds worse and cannot be undone. Anyway I'm wondering whether this is all a waste of time and if they just sent me a placebo replacement.  Has anyone had any joy in getting a better product out of them?  Is it worth upgrading the firmware? Cheers!


I went from 1944 to 1948, and haven't really noticed any difference, both running Fw 1.22.  While the hiss is still there, it's low enough to not really bother me.  My main issue is that I find them too bright - treble too hot.  However, as I noted previously, this may be a result of not being able to get a good fitment/seal with them in my ears.  As a result, the bass is not as strong, and all the other frequencies seem overblown in comparison.  None of the EQ curves in the app are to my liking, but I use the Treble Reducer one.


----------



## Invalid

My brother bought a note10+ and it came with the Galaxy buds. Needless to say I took it from him. Let's call it a loaner. So impressions playing from Spotify at very high quality, on around 60-70% volume, no eq.

Redbone -  come and get your love

Nothing sounds off, electric sitar, Lolly's voice sounds grainy but that's probably from the recording quality, that and I am streaming from spotify, guitar comes through nicely with the violins at the back. Nice instrument separation. Some degree of imaging is present.


Kehlani - Honey

As I guessed listening from the first track I found the Galaxy buds to be mid forward and they shine here. Sounded pleasant on these.

Michael Jackson - Thriller

Checking for soundstage, it's not that expansive. It's there but sounds like a tiny room. everything's fine until you reach the 4:00 mark, too much information going on the buds can't keep up. It sounds a little congested. Needs some highs.

Tl;dr
I find it mid forward. Lacking air a bit, just needs a tad more on the treble for my taste. Sound kinda congested/dull. Will try to eq if that helps. In all honesty I don't like eqing since it may help with fixing the experience with another song but can mess up the next.


Man these hurt my right ear, they're hella uncomfortable. Left is fine but the right pair it hurts real bad. 
Had to endure all that so I can share my sound impressions, the pain wasn't worth it, it still hurts and I'm not even wearing it now. 

To the Galaxy buds owners did you encounter this problem?


----------



## tma6

sarv said:


> Got the new 1more ANC today, tryna figure out how to get a good seal, anyone knows which tips worked best for the older ones?



How do they sound?? Also did you get it through hifigo? Also how’s the anc? I have so many questions...


----------



## episiarch

HiFlight said:


> New firmware for Libratone Track Air+.  Added audio, ANC and phone improvements plus support for AAC.  Also added option to configure 3rd tap  on both sides.


Thanks for that update! Addition of AAC makes these potentially viable for me.

@HiFlight, how is the update installed? I couldn’t find the info on their website. I’m asking because I don’t have ready access to a Windows computer, and for some gadgets that’s the only update method.


----------



## albau

albau said:


> Searching for under $100 but decent sounding travel TWS with Qi (wireless charging), BT5, USB-C and volume control. Are these TOZO T6 or Aukey Series T10 or T10s (with bigger drivers) any good?


Shameless bump. No TOZO or Aukey for me?


----------



## Ajkann01 (Dec 23, 2019)

Just recieved the mifo 07 today. Will have to listen to them next to the wf1000 to see how they compare. They are TINY barely bigger then a dime. Does support APTx, popped up right when they connected. Gonna give them a go the rest of the day and see how they sound


----------



## hifi80sman

Ajkann01 said:


> Just recieved the mifo 07 today. Will have to listen to them next to the wf1000 to see how they compare. They are TINY barely bigger then a dime. Does support APTx, popped up right when they connected. Gonna give them a go the rest of the day and see how they sound


Nice.  I'd appreciate some feedback on not only clarity (which I assume will be good), but also if the mids sound forward, and if the bass can hit (which may be lacking).


----------



## SilverEars

Invalid said:


> My brother bought a note10+ and it came with the Galaxy buds. Needless to say I took it from him. Let's call it a loaner. So impressions playing from Spotify at very high quality, on around 60-70% volume, no eq.
> 
> Redbone -  come and get your love
> 
> ...


Try different tips not stock.  They stupidly shrunk the bore size.  You want to increase the bore size to get it to sound proper.


----------



## D3soLaT3

Nuarl N6 Pro and N6 popped up on Amazon U.S. Somebody HOLD ME BACK!


----------



## clerkpalmer

D3soLaT3 said:


> Nuarl N6 Pro and N6 popped up on Amazon U.S. Somebody HOLD ME BACK!



Nice, yesterday it was showing closer to $260 I believe.  That price is much more reasonable.


----------



## clerkpalmer

Waiting (impatiently) for feedback on the 1more ANC and the Mifo 07...


----------



## hifi80sman

clerkpalmer said:


> Nice, yesterday it was showing closer to $260 I believe.  That price is much more reasonable.


Nice!  Looks like the seller is Nuarl Official, while the early listing was TEC Japan (assume Japanese version).


----------



## hifi80sman

Speaking of deals, while off-topic, I figure we all dabble in over-ears, so I'll share:

B&H Photo Video has the Sony MDR-Z7M2 for a maddening price of $298.  Yeah, I ordered.


----------



## clerkpalmer

hifi80sman said:


> Speaking of deals, while off-topic, I figure we all dabble in over-ears, so I'll share:
> 
> B&H Photo Video has the Sony MDR-Z7M2 for a maddening price of $298.  Yeah, I ordered.


Damn you.  Do I need these?


----------



## jant71 (Dec 23, 2019)

Got my Motorola box today. In more than one way 





Inside of the box is another box containing a pair of their Verve Buds 200 instead. Seems the TECH3  weren't quite ready and in stock at the time I ordered and an inventory mishap had two of these in stock on Amazon by mistake. They did a good job and let me know and I get to keep the Verve Buds and get the Tech3 sent out as soon as they have them for real. Good job on Motorola's part.




So, no Tech3 impressions yet. The Verve Buds 200 did look interesting so glad I got to try them out instead of returning. Look pretty cool. Small case size...






More of a sport bud with ear wings and a neckband so you can let them hang down instead of holding them...




They are BT5.0 and the connection is rock solid even at 30feet and two walls. Battery at 3 hours is on the low side. You can answer and reject calls, power on/off, play/pause, rewind, fast forward, and activate a voice assistant with the multi-function button. No on board volume control. Looks are good and the fit is pretty good so far. Can get some driver flex with other than stock tips as they will stick out further(stock have shortened stems inside). Need to test them out more of course. SQ is pretty solid so far so looking forward to the TECH3 that promises quality sound. Just checked...https://www.amazon.com/Motorola-VerveBuds-200-Wireless-Earbuds/dp/B07V1PS11N...and they are not bad for the $42.50. Would be a real good buy at 6 hours battery life though 3 hours can get the job done for sports.


----------



## hifi80sman

clerkpalmer said:


> Damn you.  Do I need these?


Honestly, I think you do.


----------



## clerkpalmer

hifi80sman said:


> Honestly, I think you do.


Do you know if they require an amp?


----------



## hifi80sman

clerkpalmer said:


> Do you know if they require an amp?


They're only 56 ohms, so you should be able to drive with any newer Android phone or lightning adapter.  I have the ES100, so I'll just run it balanced from that bad boy or plug it into my LG G6 (Quad DAC version).

But honestly, 56 ohms is cake.  I think the Sennheiser HD579 is around 50 ohms, which is driven easily by any phone or lightning adapter.


----------



## clerkpalmer

hifi80sman said:


> They're only 56 ohms, so you should be able to drive with any newer Android phone or lightning adapter.  I have the ES100, so I'll just run it balanced from that bad boy or plug it into my LG G6 (Quad DAC version).
> 
> But honestly, 56 ohms is cake.  I think the Sennheiser HD579 is around 50 ohms, which is driven easily by any phone or lightning adapter.


Argghhh. I have an es100 too. I am running on fumes financially. Must resist!


----------



## jant71

clerkpalmer said:


> Argghhh. I have an es100 too. I am running on fumes financially. Must resist!



There is a used with "little to no signs of wear" for $238. Save $60


----------



## clerkpalmer

jant71 said:


> There is a used with "little to no signs of wear" for $238. Save $60


Saw that too but no warranty on that one.


----------



## Samplingentropy

So, today they came, my spunky beats, and customs grabbed them =\
Had to pay almost as much as the buds themselves to get them released =[
Hope they are worth it =]
At least they are close now, hopefully before New year's..


----------



## HiFlight

episiarch said:


> Thanks for that update! Addition of AAC makes these potentially viable for me.
> 
> @HiFlight, how is the update installed? I couldn’t find the info on their website. I’m asking because I don’t have ready access to a Windows computer, and for some gadgets that’s the only update method.


Easiest firmware update ever.  A notification shows up on your phone when the app is active.  It instructs you to put the buds back in the charging case leaving the lid open and do not allow your phone to enter lock screen mode.  Once that is done, a progress bar will appear on your phone.  When complete, the buds will reboot then re-pair and are ready for use with the newly updated firmware.  Takes about 15-20 minutes depending on your download speed.  Most noticeable addition is the ability to assign a 3-tap function.  Still lacking volume control via taps.


----------



## episiarch

HiFlight said:


> Easiest firmware update ever.  A notification shows up on your phone when the app is active.  It instructs you to put the buds back in the charging case leaving the lid open and do not allow your phone to enter lock screen mode.  Once that is done, a progress bar will appear on your phone.  When complete, the buds will reboot then re-pair and are ready for use with the newly updated firmware.  Takes about 15-20 minutes depending on your download speed.  Most noticeable addition is the ability to assign a 3-tap function.  Still lacking volume control via taps.


Fantastic. Thank you.


----------



## tma6

D3soLaT3 said:


> Nuarl N6 Pro and N6 popped up on Amazon U.S. Somebody HOLD ME BACK!



Im going for it! Prolly gonna test both and return one.


----------



## tma6

tma6 said:


> Im going for it! Prolly gonna test both and return one.



Just got both. I lost it. Will report back w full reviews in a few weeks.


----------



## jant71 (Dec 23, 2019)

But first impressions in a few days right??  Just like I did before with my hour in Motorola impression. Just joshing. Take your time. Just this year some time


----------



## bronco1015

tma6 said:


> Im going for it! Prolly gonna test both and return one.


Damn you Amazon. I see the N6 pro for $162, and amazon throws that 'get $100 off instantly, pay $62.00 upon approval for the amazon Prime reward card" my next thought was, hmm...if i get that card, then all my amazon purchases can just be on that from now on.
nope, not gonna sell my soul for $100 lol.
Staying strong..for now anyway.


----------



## hifi80sman

bronco1015 said:


> Damn you Amazon. I see the N6 pro for $162, and amazon throws that 'get $100 off instantly, pay $62.00 upon approval for the amazon Prime reward card" my next thought was, hmm...if i get that card, then all my amazon purchases can just be on that from now on.
> nope, not gonna sell my soul for $100 lol.
> Staying strong..for now anyway.


Just apply for the card, buy it, then pay off the card and close it.  That's what I did.  When you have issues, you find a way to feed the beast.


----------



## bronco1015

hifi80sman said:


> Just apply for the card, buy it, then pay off the card and close it.  That's what I did.  When you have issues, you find a way to feed the beast.


 I think that's what i'm gonna do. your brilliant. plus i ended up returning those beyers so i'm not paying any more than i'd already "budgeted" lol.


----------



## hifi80sman

bronco1015 said:


> I think that's what i'm gonna do. your brilliant. plus i ended up returning those beyers so i'm not paying any more than i'd already "budgeted" lol.


Score!


----------



## chinmie

Invalid said:


> My brother bought a note10+ and it came with the Galaxy buds. Needless to say I took it from him. Let's call it a loaner. So impressions playing from Spotify at very high quality, on around 60-70% volume, no eq.
> 
> Redbone -  come and get your love
> 
> ...



i use these tips on my two Galaxy buds:

  

the clear one on the black unit i think i got it from an old Samsung phone stock IEM, and the white one, i think it's some generic wide bore tips that i got online.

if it's only the stock tips, i would never get the Galaxy buds to fit securely in my ears, and constantly repositioning it would make it hurt. 

with these tips, well, i like the Gbuds a lot that i got two units of them


----------



## Quicky32

Got the Spinfit CP360 in the mail today and they do not fit on the T1X...my foam tips did not fit either.


----------



## CocaCola15

hifi80sman said:


> Speaking of deals, while off-topic, I figure we all dabble in over-ears, so I'll share:
> 
> B&H Photo Video has the Sony MDR-Z7M2 for a maddening price of $298.  Yeah, I ordered.


$237 used/returned at B&H


----------



## assassin10000 (Dec 23, 2019)

So after a couple days with them, my new Tronsmart Spunky Beats have proven to have disappointing battery life.

At 50% volume I'm getting about 2:40 with aptx on (claims 4hrs) and about 3:15 (claims 7 hrs).


I've not seen much here about them but I've been kinda interested in the newer Mavin Air-XR. Besides @bronco1015 saying it sounded cheap after searching, anyone else here try them? @deadguy99 any update after getting them?


----------



## voicemaster

Quicky32 said:


> Got the Spinfit CP360 in the mail today and they do not fit on the T1X...my foam tips did not fit either.


Get this one
Earphone Tips F FEYCH Premium Replacement Earbud Tips Memory Foam Earphone Tips Blocking Noise Foam Tips Suit for 4.5-6.3mm Nozzle in-Ear Earphones with Storage Box(Small, 6 Pairs, Black) https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07SJSTB44/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_i_kKxaEbKZ40VYG


----------



## Timastyle

Quicky32 said:


> Got the Spinfit CP360 in the mail today and they do not fit on the T1X...my foam tips did not fit either.



I didn't have any issues putting my SpinFit 360 in large onto the T1x. Got both the earbuds and tips from Amazon if it matters.


----------



## d3myz

clerkpalmer said:


> Nice, yesterday it was showing closer to $260 I believe.  That price is much more reasonable.


Damnit, couldn't' resist, I need to hear both so I got the n6 and the pro.


----------



## Quicky32

Timastyle said:


> I didn't have any issues putting my SpinFit 360 in large onto the T1x. Got both the earbuds and tips from Amazon if it matters.




I got them from Amazon but I tried a few different ways and could not get them on.


----------



## tma6 (Dec 23, 2019)

d3myz said:


> Damnit, couldn't' resist, I need to hear both so I got the n6 and the pro.



We got this haha. I did the same. We’re both nuts. I can’t even lie though, I’m looking forward to the comparison.


----------



## Timastyle

Quicky32 said:


> I got them from Amazon but I tried a few different ways and could not get them on.



I pinched the tip end and slid the stem in (sounds awful describing it).


----------



## howdy

Wife spent 200 on a hair cut that should justify getting the Nuarl n6 pros right?


----------



## clerkpalmer

howdy said:


> Wife spent 200 on a hair cut that should justify getting the Nuarl n6 pros right?


Absolutely.


----------



## elano68

Hi guys. I am about to buy qcy t5 wireless or Sony wi-xb400.
What do u recommend?
Sound quality, microphone and video latency is important for me.


----------



## DigDub

Time to try something different...


----------



## Blueshound24

I'm sure this has been discussed ad nauseum but I am so frustrated trying to get a seal on my mw07 that I just need to vent. 

I have never had an issue trying to get a good seal with ANY IEM's until I tried MW07 and L2P. And I have owned/tried IEM's from 64 Audio, UM, Fearless, UE, Empire Ears, Hifiman, Hidition, Earsonics, Empire Ears, Sony, Westone, Vsonics, Fiio, Shure, etc.

What all have Y'all had any luck with?

I have tried Spinfits, Spiral Dots, Complys, Final Type E, Symbios, generic tips, even stretched some Westone Star tips on. The best seal I get is with Complys, (but hate foams for lack of convenience AND the way they soak up the treble). Second best seal is with Black Type E, not clear. The black is a little stiffer and helps to hold them in and keep them more stable.

I think that the mw07 does not allow deep insertion due to a combination from their BULKY housing design and SHORT stem length. This is very frustrating because they never feel real stable in the ear because they are impossible to insert deep into the ear canal. Their stem is too short and the housing fits up against the ear too close and doesn’t allow the stem and ear tip to go far enough in. Then if you somehow get them far enough in to ALMOST get a seal the housing is right up against your ear and causes a headache.


----------



## FYLegend

assassin10000 said:


> So after a couple days with them, my new Tronsmart Spunky Beats have proven to have disappointing battery life.
> 
> At 50% volume I'm getting about 2:40 with aptx on (claims 4hrs) and about 3:15 (claims 7 hrs).
> 
> ...


3:15 with SBC? I had seen one review claiming to do testing and that there was indeed 6-7 hours on an iPhone (which would be AAC). Today I seemed to have got 3.5 hours on AptX via my phone and laptop from the last full charge. I suspect "battery low" warning occupies the last 10-20% of the battery.

How do you find the sound quality? I feel like the Onyx Neo tries to push for mids and clarity, but ends up sounding grainy,

One gripe I have is that when I power off one side by accident, it turns both buds off and I need to power on both buds in order to re-connect them.


----------



## webvan

Blueshound24 said:


> I'm sure this has been discussed ad nauseum but I am so frustrated trying to get a seal on my mw07 that I just need to vent.
> 
> I have never had an issue trying to get a good seal with ANY IEM's until I tried MW07 and L2P. And I have owned/tried IEM's from 64 Audio, UM, Fearless, UE, Empire Ears, Hifiman, Hidition, Earsonics, Empire Ears, Sony, Westone, Vsonics, Fiio, Shure, etc.
> 
> ...



I don't have the MW07 but I've learnt to enjoy the L2P without deep insertion. That's just the way they've been designed I think. With the L orange tips and with the "wings" keeping them in place my ear canal is "obstructed" and I get a seal in the sense that if I talk my ears feel "plugged". This is very different from deep insertion IEMs like the Etymotic XR-4 of course that are very narrow and that you ram down your ear canal (same with the Klipsch S4) but I've found that to me that's only ok for a limited amount of time and certainly not for a long and pleasant listening session like you can have with the L2Ps. So of course isolation is not great and it will only work well in quiet/noiseless environments.

Contrast to the Amazon Echo Buds that have small stems and tiny tips (even in L size), well they insert deep with little pressure courtesy of the small tips and with the wings they don't move. If you throw in ANR then you get the best isolation (RTings agrees) possible with a TWE.


----------



## james444

Blueshound24 said:


> I'm sure this has been discussed ad nauseum but I am so frustrated trying to get a seal on my mw07 that I just need to vent.
> 
> I have never had an issue trying to get a good seal with ANY IEM's until I tried MW07 and L2P. And I have owned/tried IEM's from 64 Audio, UM, Fearless, UE, Empire Ears, Hifiman, Hidition, Earsonics, Empire Ears, Sony, Westone, Vsonics, Fiio, Shure, etc.
> 
> ...



I don't own the MW07, but these Azla tips are the best silicone tips for short stem IEMs that I've come across. Can be ordered from Japan via AmazonGlobal international shipping:

https://www.amazon.co.jp/gp/product/B07QVFJSWL


----------



## Blueshound24

james444 said:


> I don't own the MW07, but these Azla tips are the best silicone tips for short stem IEMs that I've come across. Can be ordered from Japan via AmazonGlobal international shipping:
> 
> https://www.amazon.co.jp/gp/product/B07QVFJSWL




They're on Amazon USA as well. Wish they had Lg, I've got big ear canals. Biggest they have is ML

https://www.amazon.com/SednaEarfit-1Pair-AZLA-Size-pcs/dp/B07D8W6WHJ/
https://www.amazon.com/AZLA-AZLA-SEDNA-EAR-FIT-LT-S-SednaEarfitLight-Size-pcs/dp/B07QVFJHSC/

Maybe similar to Final Type E? If they are the black ones should feel more stable/solid.


----------



## DigDub

The Fiio UTWS1 paired with Tin Audio T2. Sounds pretty amazing!


----------



## assassin10000 (Dec 24, 2019)

FYLegend said:


> 3:15 with SBC? I had seen one review claiming to do testing and that there was indeed 6-7 hours on an iPhone (which would be AAC). Today I seemed to have got 3.5 hours on AptX via my phone and laptop from the last full charge. I suspect "battery low" warning occupies the last 10-20% of the battery.
> 
> How do you find the sound quality? I feel like the Onyx Neo tries to push for mids and clarity, but ends up sounding grainy,
> 
> One gripe I have is that when I power off one side by accident, it turns both buds off and I need to power on both buds in order to re-connect them.



Yeah. 2:40 with APTX and 3:15 with SBC, give or take 5 minutes. Warning is at 20%.

If I was getting 5-6 hours I would be happy.


Sound quality is decent. Mine are not grainy. Bass mids & treble all seem fairly well balanced, nothing I would call too forward or recessed. Treble is smooth, no sparkle or air but also no sibilance.


I'll check mine and see how they act if powering one side off playing music. Edit: both power off together as well.


----------



## assassin10000

DigDub said:


> The Fiio UTWS1 paired with Tin Audio T2. Sounds pretty amazing!



Cool. 

Do you have a bt20 or bt20s to compare? I'm wondering if they've turned the gain back down somewhat compared to the bt20s, so it's closer to the bt20 and would potentially have less noise with sensitive iems.


----------



## DigDub (Dec 24, 2019)

assassin10000 said:


> Cool.
> 
> Do you have a bt20 or bt20s to compare? I'm wondering if they've turned the gain back down somewhat compared to the bt20s, so it's closer to the bt20 and would potentially have less noise with sensitive iems.


I don't have both. The gain seems not to be overly high.


----------



## axhng

just received these. the hybrid version. played around with it for a bit. Initial impressions wise, it sounds like the T1 IIRC, but I gave that to a friend so can't compare side by side. Sound wise I haven't really tested that many TWS or IEMs, but i think it's a V shaped sound. For my ears, i feel like the treble can get a bit intense, and i find the upper mids a bit thin sounding? The main TWS I've been using recently are the Galaxy Buds, and i don't think it sounds as good. But then again, it's many times cheaper. I've had a few KZ IEMs like ZSN Pro, ZS10 Pro, ZSX, and it has that slightly off (a bit steely?) timbre as well.

They fixed a couple of shortcomings like the placement of the buds in the box are now in the right order (right side for right earbuds), it uses USB-C port for charging now, and the case is smaller than it was on the T1. I think there is still a jump in volume at around 80% like the T1 I think, but not sure if the jump is less than it was before. Seems a bit better?

The game mode for lower latency does work, and as far as i can tell it's just lowering the bit rate of the audio. there is still a slight noticeably delay for games, but not as bad as it usually is for regular TWS. Maybe around the level of neckbuds like the jaybird X2 or better? Also I do feel like it sounds better on iPhone compared to android, probably just better AAC implementation. I feel the same with the Galaxy Buds too. :/


----------



## dilpal

Hey guys, what will be cheapest true wireless earphones with low latency for watching YouTube and movies on smartphone.  I don't care much about sound quality as I have oriolus mk2 for that purpose. Budget is around $100 max.


----------



## chinmie

dilpal said:


> Hey guys, what will be cheapest true wireless earphones with low latency for watching YouTube and movies on smartphone.  I don't care much about sound quality as I have oriolus mk2 for that purpose. Budget is around $100 max.



the QCY T1C or Haylou GT2 might fit your requirements


----------



## actorlife

Happy Christmas Eve my dear addicted TWS friends. Hohoho.


----------



## howdy

DigDub said:


> Time to try something different...


Is that the MMCX or 2 Pin? I keep looking for the 2 Pin as I want to try them with my severly neglected CIEMs.


----------



## chinmie

Happy Christmas and Happy Holidays for all


----------



## stormwrx

Looks like the Cleer Ally Plus is out (in limited quantities).  I am tempted to try them, but I am very happy with the MW07 Plus (aside from the lack of AAC).

https://cleeraudio.com/in-ear-headphones/ally-plus-true-wireless-noise-cancelling-earbuds-headphone/


----------



## falang

The new version of the galaxy buds appear to have anc and a larger battery. Not sure if posted. This could be the year of anc. Bring it on.


----------



## Mouseman

axhng said:


> just received these. the hybrid version. played around with it for a bit. Initial impressions wise, it sounds like the T1 IIRC, but I gave that to a friend so can't compare side by side. Sound wise I haven't really tested that many TWS or IEMs, but i think it's a V shaped sound. For my ears, i feel like the treble can get a bit intense, and i find the upper mids a bit thin sounding? The main TWS I've been using recently are the Galaxy Buds, and i don't think it sounds as good. But then again, it's many times cheaper. I've had a few KZ IEMs like ZSN Pro, ZS10 Pro, ZSX, and it has that slightly off (a bit steely?) timbre as well.
> 
> They fixed a couple of shortcomings like the placement of the buds in the box are now in the right order (right side for right earbuds), it uses USB-C port for charging now, and the case is smaller than it was on the T1. I think there is still a jump in volume at around 80% like the T1 I think, but not sure if the jump is less than it was before. Seems a bit better?
> 
> The game mode for lower latency does work, and as far as i can tell it's just lowering the bit rate of the audio. there is still a slight noticeably delay for games, but not as bad as it usually is for regular TWS. Maybe around the level of neckbuds like the jaybird X2 or better? Also I do feel like it sounds better on iPhone compared to android, probably just better AAC implementation. I feel the same with the Galaxy Buds too. :/


How is the connection strength? Any issues?


----------



## DigDub

howdy said:


> Is that the MMCX or 2 Pin? I keep looking for the 2 Pin as I want to try them with my severly neglected CIEMs.


It's the mmcx version. I didn't see the 2 pin version in the store.


----------



## Caipirina

axhng said:


> just received these. the hybrid version. played around with it for a bit. Initial impressions wise, it sounds like the T1 IIRC, but I gave that to a friend so can't compare side by side. Sound wise I haven't really tested that many TWS or IEMs, but i think it's a V shaped sound. For my ears, i feel like the treble can get a bit intense, and i find the upper mids a bit thin sounding? The main TWS I've been using recently are the Galaxy Buds, and i don't think it sounds as good. But then again, it's many times cheaper. I've had a few KZ IEMs like ZSN Pro, ZS10 Pro, ZSX, and it has that slightly off (a bit steely?) timbre as well.
> 
> They fixed a couple of shortcomings like the placement of the buds in the box are now in the right order (right side for right earbuds), it uses USB-C port for charging now, and the case is smaller than it was on the T1. I think there is still a jump in volume at around 80% like the T1 I think, but not sure if the jump is less than it was before. Seems a bit better?
> 
> The game mode for lower latency does work, and as far as i can tell it's just lowering the bit rate of the audio. there is still a slight noticeably delay for games, but not as bad as it usually is for regular TWS. Maybe around the level of neckbuds like the jaybird X2 or better? Also I do feel like it sounds better on iPhone compared to android, probably just better AAC implementation. I feel the same with the Galaxy Buds too. :/



thanks for the first impressions! Much better than what ‘bad guy good audio’ on YouTube had to say. He was kinda trashing them without even listening to them. Have to admit that the grey does not look that great, kinda reminds me of hospital beds ...


----------



## Quicky32

I finally got the CP360 on the T1X and while better, they’re still kind of small and the soundstage sounds thin.


----------



## _mouse_

Quicky32 said:


> I finally got the CP360 on the T1X and while better, they’re still kind of small and the soundstage sounds thin.


Which one (diameter)?
Thanks


----------



## Quicky32

_mouse_ said:


> Which one (diameter)?
> Thanks



The blue is large I think and they were a pain to get on.  They run really small for a “large” ear tip.


----------



## Firevortex

assassin10000 said:


> So after a couple days with them, my new Tronsmart Spunky Beats have proven to have disappointing battery life.
> 
> At 50% volume I'm getting about 2:40 with aptx on (claims 4hrs) and about 3:15 (claims 7 hrs).



that batt life is really poor....how you find the SQ your self?

i've got a pair and i'm totally surprised by the SQ on the Spunky Beats. they are fantastic for the price (i've only tested for 30mins). better than mifo o5 pro , QCY T1 pro, Xiaomi airdot , Sabbat E12ultra i've tested so far under $70 range, better than jabras and soundsport for over $100+. but the stock tips are horrible. one of the worst stock tips I've seen in a TWE period. i used spiral dot tips which fits perfectly and made it sound x2 better.

the SQ and sound stage is close to that of the 1More E1026BT but musically i prefer the 1More which does things slightly better with a warmer tone. but 1more is x2 the price.

i'm currently using BT20s with CCA c10s as main since they sounded very close to the sennheiser MTW but with 8hr batt life. so far none of the TWE i've tested can touch the sennheiser in SQ and sound stage. any recommendations on better BT20s parring which is an upgrade to the CCA c10s?


----------



## axhng

Mouseman said:


> How is the connection strength? Any issues?



I haven't really used it in more crowded places, so can't say for sure. Just testing it at home the connection is fine as expected. Will feedback if i notice any issues once I use it more.

Another thing that is kinda annoying is that tuning the Game Mode On or Off gives the same beep sound, so there is no way to know whether it's on of off other than testing it for yourself. A simple voice prompt saying "On" or "Off" would be great.



Caipirina said:


> thanks for the first impressions! Much better than what ‘bad guy good audio’ on YouTube had to say. He was kinda trashing them without even listening to them. Have to admit that the grey does not look that great, kinda reminds me of hospital beds ...



hahaha. I was trying to get the green initially, but saw that their official store on aliexpress only has the gray in stocks. Didn't want to wait, so just went for the gray.


----------



## assassin10000

Firevortex said:


> that batt life is really poor....how you find the SQ your self?
> 
> i've got a pair and i'm totally surprised by the SQ on the Spunky Beats. they are fantastic for the price (i've only tested for 30mins). better than mifo o5 pro , QCY T1 pro, Xiaomi airdot , Sabbat E12ultra i've tested so far under $70 range, better than jabras and soundsport for over $100+. but the stock tips are horrible. one of the worst stock tips I've seen in a TWE period. i used spiral dot tips which fits perfectly and made it sound x2 better.
> 
> ...



See below:



assassin10000 said:


> Been listening to them for about an hour. Pleasantly surprised by the SQ, well balanced.





assassin10000 said:


> Sound quality is decent. Mine are not grainy. Bass mids & treble all seem fairly well balanced, nothing I would call too forward or recessed. Treble is smooth, no sparkle or air but also no sibilance.



SQ is pretty good. Better for me than the QS1's (by memory) and X12 pro's I used to have.


----------



## georgelai57

Love the Spunky Beats and SSK BT03 but for a large ear user like me, I wish I could disable all the touch controls. I need to gingerly pinch the earbuds carefully when I’m adjusting the fit during listening sessions.


----------



## bronco1015

Firevortex said:


> that batt life is really poor....how you find the SQ your self?
> 
> i've got a pair and i'm totally surprised by the SQ on the Spunky Beats. they are fantastic for the price (i've only tested for 30mins). better than mifo o5 pro , QCY T1 pro, Xiaomi airdot , Sabbat E12ultra i've tested so far under $70 range, better than jabras and soundsport for over $100+. but the stock tips are horrible. one of the worst stock tips I've seen in a TWE period. i used spiral dot tips which fits perfectly and made it sound x2 better.
> 
> ...


a kid got his first TWS tonight, and of course i had to give them a listen as well. The Spunky Beats really are amazing from an SQ perspective. The touch controls are a bit to sensative, but they're definitely worth keeping. Might have to get a pair myself. Gonna see how the bomaker SiFi sound first. Plus do have the N6 pro coming, need to just be content with those.


----------



## Invalid

chinmie said:


> i use these tips on my two Galaxy buds:
> 
> 
> the clear one on the black unit i think i got it from an old Samsung phone stock IEM, and the white one, i think it's some generic wide bore tips that i got online.
> ...




How did you manage to use the conventional tips to stick? Weird design seem to only take the tips made by Samsung or the foam tips by comply specifically for the Galaxy buds. Oh and there's a spinfit 360 for tws too.

It seals fine, it's just the housing, the pin side that sits beside the outer ear hurts a ton. I even switched to the rubber without the wings/fin but that wasn't of any help either if anything it made it even worse since the fin was redistributing the pain where the ones without the fin was just digging in one area.


----------



## Invalid

Read reviews from sites saying the Galaxy buds were lacking in bass. In my experience it has enough, dare I say borderline basshead territory? Maybe it's just me. So I'll say it has enough bass. No eq. Maybe they retuned it over firmware updates?


----------



## hifi80sman

Invalid said:


> Read reviews from sites saying the Galaxy buds were lacking in bass. In my experience it has enough, dare I say borderline basshead territory? Maybe it's just me. So I'll say it has enough bass. No eq. Maybe they retuned it over firmware updates?


Personal preference, certainly, but I find them to be a little light on the bass out of the box.

Good, clean sound, however.


----------



## TYATYA

Spinfit tip (dont know item name) in package of anker liberty air2 is beyond good for E8.
Sound I never ever heard on TWS


----------



## Firevortex

bronco1015 said:


> a kid got his first TWS tonight, and of course i had to give them a listen as well. The Spunky Beats really are amazing from an SQ perspective. The touch controls are a bit to sensative, but they're definitely worth keeping. Might have to get a pair myself. Gonna see how the bomaker SiFi sound first. Plus do have the N6 pro coming, need to just be content with those.



Yea i was reviewing quite a few chi-fi TWS for a website and those didn't even come up on the radar. the package looked cheap like the QCYs cheap and the charger feels really cheap too. so i had very low expectations. at $33 ish price point the SQ is just ridiculous. they totally blow the highly rated  Mifo O5 balance Pros out of the water and Sabbat series. yes the touch controls are sensitive like the Sony XM3s. been such a small size made it touch prone. 

i just tested the batt life and my left ear shut down at around 4hr mark with Apt-X and my right ear still has around 60% batt left which is weird.


----------



## Caipirina

Question for those here with PowerBeats Pro: 
have you ever had trouble charging them, or the connection of the metal points inside the charging case rattles loose (and then the buds just reconnect to your device, while you are actually listening to other buds), or they don't fully connect once you close the lid, thus they don't charge? Are there charge indicator lights ON the buds? 
I have a similar built over ear-hangy tws that has all the above problems, which partially I attribute to the shape / design  of the case / location of the charging points, plus the ones I have have only one charging indicator light on the box (for when the box is charging, not the buds) 
I am still tempted to get a pair here (used / 150$ tax free) but would bite my own behind if I ran into similar issues. 

Thanks and happy Xmas!


----------



## chinmie

Invalid said:


> How did you manage to use the conventional tips to stick? Weird design seem to only take the tips made by Samsung or the foam tips by comply specifically for the Galaxy buds. Oh and there's a spinfit 360 for tws too.
> 
> It seals fine, it's just the housing, the pin side that sits beside the outer ear hurts a ton. I even switched to the rubber without the wings/fin but that wasn't of any help either if anything it made it even worse since the fin was redistributing the pain where the ones without the fin was just digging in one area.



only that tips that can fit the Galaxy buds, even that sometimes popped out, but only if i pull it out of my ears quickly

to me the Galaxy buds have a deep bass and ample amount of subbass, but to people who enjoy midbass thump, they are a bit scooped there. but i myself consider the Gbuds not to be bass light


----------



## gibletzor

actorlife said:


> Happy Christmas Eve my dear addicted TWS friends. Hohoho.


  A Merry Christmas to you as well!


----------



## howdy

Caipirina said:


> Question for those here with PowerBeats Pro:
> have you ever had trouble charging them, or the connection of the metal points inside the charging case rattles loose (and then the buds just reconnect to your device, while you are actually listening to other buds), or they don't fully connect once you close the lid, thus they don't charge? Are there charge indicator lights ON the buds?
> I have a similar built over ear-hangy tws that has all the above problems, which partially I attribute to the shape / design  of the case / location of the charging points, plus the ones I have have only one charging indicator light on the box (for when the box is charging, not the buds)
> I am still tempted to get a pair here (used / 150$ tax free) but would bite my own behind if I ran into similar issues.
> ...


I own the power beats pro and never had any issues with any thing so far and I've owned them probably around 3 months. Love the PBPs and listen to them quite a bit.

Merry Christmas all!


----------



## clerkpalmer (Dec 25, 2019)

Caipirina said:


> Question for those here with PowerBeats Pro:
> have you ever had trouble charging them, or the connection of the metal points inside the charging case rattles loose (and then the buds just reconnect to your device, while you are actually listening to other buds), or they don't fully connect once you close the lid, thus they don't charge? Are there charge indicator lights ON the buds?
> I have a similar built over ear-hangy tws that has all the above problems, which partially I attribute to the shape / design  of the case / location of the charging points, plus the ones I have have only one charging indicator light on the box (for when the box is charging, not the buds)
> I am still tempted to get a pair here (used / 150$ tax free) but would bite my own behind if I ran into similar issues.
> ...



I've had a few issues likely due to user error. You do have to make sure they are seated properly and if the case gets jarred it's possible they will move off the connection. I've had some instances where only 1 would pair or 1 would be completely dead and another fully charged. Nothing that would keep me from purchasing them.  Edit no indicator lights in the buds themselves. Also battery life is epic.


----------



## Caipirina

@howdy & @clerkpalmer thank you for your input! Not really helping me save money  

i recall I was very impressed by them on first auditioning ... let’s see if I have the same impression again


----------



## cleg

My video about **** Q70, for a real bassheads


----------



## howdy

Caipirina said:


> @howdy & @clerkpalmer thank you for your input! Not really helping me save money
> 
> i recall I was very impressed by them on first auditioning ... let’s see if I have the same impression again


These are what I grab all the time when doing chores around the house and gym as they stay put in my ear and sound really great! And the battery life is awesome! I use them with my only apple device which is a iPod touch with lots of Tidal downloaded,


----------



## deadguy99

assassin10000 said:


> So after a couple days with them, my new Tronsmart Spunky Beats have proven to have disappointing battery life.
> 
> At 50% volume I'm getting about 2:40 with aptx on (claims 4hrs) and about 3:15 (claims 7 hrs).
> 
> ...


 I had the new air-XR for a couple days they sounded identical and didn’t improve on the suction cup problem, sent them back because I prefer a real tactile button on the original as the new touch buttons were a bit picky on when they would recognize me tappin on it, not to mention tapping on them just made the ear ache worse lol, I still maintain they sound good but not like high end good, they don’t offend in any area and extend well in both directions and are non fatiguing for 8 hours. Loved the new charging case tho it was less then half the size of the old one. Will probably pick up some air pod pros or just wait for the momentum 2 tws comin soon


----------



## Pete7874

Has anyone else received the $50 off discount code from Soundcore for taking the L2P survey?  The sucky part is that it's only valid until the end of this month (31 Dec), valid on purchases $79 and above, and only from soundcore.com, so that limits the choices quite a bit.


----------



## assassin10000 (Dec 25, 2019)

deadguy99 said:


> I had the new air-XR for a couple days they sounded identical and didn’t improve on the suction cup problem, sent them back because I prefer a real tactile button on the original as the new touch buttons were a bit picky on when they would recognize me tappin on it, not to mention tapping on them just made the ear ache worse lol, I still maintain they sound good but not like high end good, they don’t offend in any area and extend well in both directions and are non fatiguing for 8 hours. Loved the new charging case tho it was less then half the size of the old one. Will probably pick up some air pod pros or just wait for the momentum 2 tws comin soon



Good to know. May have to try them out then. Leaning towards getting the QI case version.


----------



## SoundChoice

Pete7874 said:


> Has anyone else received the $50 off discount code from Soundcore for taking the L2P survey?  The sucky part is that it's only valid until the end of this month (31 Dec), valid on purchases $79 and above, and only from soundcore.com, so that limits the choices quite a bit.



 No, but I was promised a $100 Wal-Mart gift card if I completed a long survey for a shady company in which I divulge my personal information and preferences. When I confronted them about the delay, I was told it was held up by the war in Somalia, and if I provide my banking info they’ll transfer it from a prince in Uganda.


----------



## Pete7874

SoundChoice said:


> No, but I was promised a $100 Wal-Mart gift card if I completed a long survey for a shady company in which I divulge my personal information and preferences. When I confronted them about the delay, I was told it was held up by the war in Somalia, and if I provide my banking info they’ll transfer it from a prince in Uganda.


LOL!  I think my reward was a little more legit.


----------



## tracyca (Dec 25, 2019)

Pete7874 said:


> Has anyone else received the $50 off discount code from Soundcore for taking the L2P survey?  The sucky part is that it's only valid until the end of this month (31 Dec), valid on purchases $79 and above, and only from soundcore.com, so that limits the choices quite a bit.


I got my $50 discount code two days ago.


----------



## dweaver

Well I have been using and enjoying my L2P for several weeks now and I recently snagged my Sony WH-1000XM3 back from my wife and wow do these 2 products have a lot of similarities in sound signature! I actually gave the Sony's to my wife because I thought they were to dark but after getting used to my L2P the Sony's sound very nice now.

I am actually looking at the WH-H910N or maybe just get another 1000XM3 since they are on sale for $350 here in Canada. Or maybe wait for the XM4 lol.


----------



## Caipirina

howdy said:


> These are what I grab all the time when doing chores around the house and gym as they stay put in my ear and sound really great! And the battery life is awesome! I use them with my only apple device which is a iPod touch with lots of Tidal downloaded,


Since I am firmly enslaved... errrr... I mean embedded into the Apple ecosystem, and very impressed how the APP function in that regard, I am hoping the same for the PBP


----------



## jant71 (Dec 25, 2019)

Anyone else who is thinking on it/speculating that the Nuarl N6 is gonna be the one for sound over the N6 Pro. IIRC, did some say that the N6 was being favored early id Japanese impressions?? Still, before I remembered that, I was thinking that in trying to tuned the CNT to flat that they may just take the life out of it. So, that the N6 would be the enjoyable one and, even if better technically, The N6 Pro would lose some "it" factor. Also keeping seeing or thinking I see the size of the "soundfield" being mentioned with the N6 and not the N6 Pro. So, bigger stage would rank higher on my list as well as having more of an affinity with titanium coating than CNT even if CNT is more of a current "in thing"  but with Koss, Goldring, and Cresyn, and others I have had more of an affinity to Titanium coated drivers myself. 

Also, boo for the making fun of Asian accents...




It's GLOSS black, GLOSS black.


----------



## assassin10000

DigDub said:


> It's the mmcx version. I didn't see the 2 pin version in the store.



Do the lights blink when playing like the BT20/BT20S or did they finally disable that?


----------



## howdy

I've asked this question before but never really got a definitive yes/no answer, is the MW07 plus worth the extra 100 over the go?
I still have a hankering for purchasing one or the other as the sound they produce is amazing!
Still want to see what the new Nuarls are like and the upcoming Sennheiser and Bose will offer as well. All I need is some patience and resistance to buying anything more


----------



## Pete7874

jant71 said:


> It's GLOSS black, GLOSS black.


You should be able to get the gross black ones at a bigger discount.


----------



## DigDub

assassin10000 said:


> Do the lights blink when playing like the BT20/BT20S or did they finally disable that?


The light does not blink once it's connected to the phone.


----------



## clerkpalmer

howdy said:


> I've asked this question before but never really got a definitive yes/no answer, is the MW07 plus worth the extra 100 over the go?
> I still have a hankering for purchasing one or the other as the sound they produce is amazing!
> Still want to see what the new Nuarls are like and the upcoming Sennheiser and Bose will offer as well. All I need is some patience and resistance to buying anything more


Not easy to answer. I'd say no it's not worth 100. But if you could find the plus on eBay for a discount (I got some for 235) then I'd say yes. The ANC is really the only distinguishing feature and it's basically just ok. If you care about having some level of ANC and shop around a bit, grab the plus. If you don't care about ANC I wouldn't bother with the plus. The go is lighter and cheaper. Strangely the plus fit me a little better.


----------



## assassin10000

DigDub said:


> The light does not blink once it's connected to the phone.



Nice. Wish that was the case with the BT20/BT20S. That and volume control which the Fiio version has. Really the only two things missing IMO.


----------



## TK33

howdy said:


> I've asked this question before but never really got a definitive yes/no answer, is the MW07 plus worth the extra 100 over the go?
> I still have a hankering for purchasing one or the other as the sound they produce is amazing!
> Still want to see what the new Nuarls are like and the upcoming Sennheiser and Bose will offer as well. All I need is some patience and resistance to buying anything more



I think that is a question only you can answer for yourself  Some will say yes and others no...depends on how much you value the extra battery life, ANC, ambient mode, metal case, ability to use each side independently and 4 mics of the MW07Plus vs the smaller MW07Go which will save you 100 and also has a higher IPX rating.  I personally went with the Go because of size (wanted something more pocketable than the MTW) but sometimes find myself missing the ambient mode (use MTW on train because of this) and if the MW07Go had ambient mode + better call quality while retaining the smaller form factor and everything else, I would gladly pay the extra 100 (but that is just my personal opinion).


----------



## howdy

TK33 said:


> I think that is a question only you can answer for yourself  Some will say yes and others no...depends on how much you value the extra battery life, ANC, ambient mode, metal case, ability to use each side independently and 4 mics of the MW07Plus vs the smaller MW07Go which will save you 100 and also has a higher IPX rating.  I personally went with the Go because of size (wanted something more pocketable than the MTW) but sometimes find myself missing the ambient mode (use MTW on train because of this) and if the MW07Go had ambient mode + better call quality while retaining the smaller form factor and everything else, I would gladly pay the extra 100 (but that is just my personal opinion).


I should had stated that this is from a SQ standpoint. I have some tw with noise cancellation. Just looking for the SQ perspective.


----------



## axhng

howdy said:


> I should had stated that this is from a SQ standpoint. I have some tw with noise cancellation. Just looking for the SQ perspective.



I haven't used either of them, but maybe this might help. the latest comment is by a reviewer here in Singapore.
https://forums.hardwarezone.com.sg/...ces-314/master-dynamic-mw07-plus-6169332.html

He reviewed both of them as well.
https://musicphotolife.com/2019/12/...ium-tws-with-anc-and-ambient-listening-modes/


----------



## DigDub (Dec 25, 2019)

assassin10000 said:


> Nice. Wish that was the case with the BT20/BT20S. That and volume control which the Fiio version has. Really the only two things missing IMO.


The control scheme is a on the Fiio:

1 right click - raise volume
1 left click - lower volume
2 right click - pause music playback
2 left click - activate assistant
Press and hold right for 2s - skip track
Press and hold left for 2s - previous track
Press and hold either side for 5s will power the side that's pressed.
Press in off state for 2s to power on.

It powers down automatically after about 5 mins when not connected to any source. It serves me pretty well. Can't hear hiss with the tin t4 or the shuoer tape.


----------



## gibby (Dec 26, 2019)

DigDub said:


> The Fiio UTWS1 paired with Tin Audio T2. Sounds pretty amazing!



I'm guessing each side needs to be charged independently?  I connected by Ibasso IT01 to MEE audio BTX1 with good results for just listening to music while walking, though not true wireless. 

I'm on the fence for Jabra Elite 75t, Sony WF1000xm3, or Sennheiser Momentum TWS with music quality as first priority.  Now maybe the Fiio UTWS1 with the IT01 or my Fidue a83's.


----------



## DigDub

gibby said:


> I'm guessing each side needs to be charged independently?  I connected by Ibasso IT01 to MEE audio BTX1 with good results for just listening to music while walking, though not true wireless.
> 
> I'm on the fence for Jabra Elite 75t, Sony WF1000xm3, or Sennheiser Momentum TWS with music quality as first priority.  Now maybe the Fiio UTWS1 with the IT01 or my Fidue a83's.


Yes they need to be charged independently, Fiio provides a USB-A to 2 micro USB cable.


----------



## Caipirina

Spotted on the train today. Can’t say I can ID the model, but pretty certain this is NOT how you wear it


----------



## Peddler

Kenneth Galang said:


> any update on the app for the tevi?



The firmware update for the Lypertek Tevi's is well worth doing. There's a significant shift in the character of the sound. There's more bass and the slightly 'shouty' upper mid range is smoothed out quite nicely. The eq settings are very effective as well. PM me for a link.


----------



## StIwY (Dec 26, 2019)

I would like to give my 2 cents, about the Sennheiser True wireless momentum and who is still undecided about going full wireless. Those earbuds are AMAZING, in every aspect except battery life, but it's not a big deal for me.

Audio quality is superb, didn't know how these little pieces can pump such quality. I read complaints over the web......but after one week of use i have nothing to blame. Bluetooth connection is rock solid, compared to any previous earbuds i owned, passive isolation is very good. Battery life is meh, but more than sufficient to me for two days of use. Some people can find these a bit overpriced, but to me they worth every penny.


----------



## chinmie

Caipirina said:


> Spotted on the train today. Can’t say I can ID the model, but pretty certain this is NOT how you wear it



maybe he's trying to hear those subliminal messages, so he listened to it backwards


----------



## Burakk

Hey guys, I've been following this thread since very beginning of it. It has been a while after I purchased APP. There are number unread pages, if you guys don't mind, I would like to ask, what is the flagship model for now, in terms of sound and call quality?


----------



## Caipirina

chinmie said:


> maybe he's trying to hear those subliminal messages, so he listened to it backwards


 You might be on to something!


----------



## Odioer

Burakk said:


> Hey guys, I've been following this thread since very beginning of it. It has been a while after I purchased APP. There are number unread pages, if you guys don't mind, I would like to ask, what is the flagship model for now, in terms of sound and call quality?


I am long time lurker too, but probably I think the following are the most honoured in SQ:

1. Soundcore liberty 2 pro
2. Sennheiser momentum

Probably APP is still the king of call + anc + sq


----------



## clerkpalmer

Odioer said:


> I am long time lurker too, but probably I think the following are the most honoured in SQ:
> 
> 1. Soundcore liberty 2 pro
> 2. Sennheiser momentum
> ...


I think the mw07 is still the flagship for SQ. I think the consensus here is that it beats both the L2p and MTW. Some will disagree but that where I think the collective views of this thread are. All 3 are great choices.


----------



## Kvarkmeister (Dec 26, 2019)

jlcsoft said:


> The gamesky video rewiew of those TWS comments the app didn´t work him. Does it work to you?


If you didn't already know, these earphones are compatible on the Android app since the 20th of December. Has a few neat features like EQ presets (around a dozen of them), battery display, Low Latency Mode, High Sensitivity Touch Mode, Easy Mode, Burn-In, product eligibility checker and a digital user manual.


----------



## albau

clerkpalmer said:


> I think the mw07 is still the flagship for SQ. I think the consensus here is that it beats both the L2p and MTW. Some will disagree but that where I think the collective views of this thread are. All 3 are great choices.


Agree. Don't think L2P are in the same league as MTW, much less MW07.


----------



## D3soLaT3

FIIL+ App is available for Android. Testing now on the T1x. Initial impressions: delicious bass.


----------



## hifi80sman

dweaver said:


> Well I have been using and enjoying my L2P for several weeks now and I recently snagged my Sony WH-1000XM3 back from my wife and wow do these 2 products have a lot of similarities in sound signature! I actually gave the Sony's to my wife because I thought they were to dark but after getting used to my L2P the Sony's sound very nice now.
> 
> I am actually looking at the WH-H910N or maybe just get another 1000XM3 since they are on sale for $350 here in Canada. Or maybe wait for the XM4 lol.


Given the WH-1000XM3 is on sale now and the Hear.on 3 is coming out, I'm sure the XM4 will follow soon.
https://fccid.io/AK8WH1000XM4


----------



## voicemaster (Dec 26, 2019)

D3soLaT3 said:


> FIIL+ App is available for Android. Testing now on the T1x. Initial impressions: delicious bass.


Just downloaded it and tried the "bass" EQ setting and that really brings the bass up but still retain the clarity and airiness of the mid and treble. Wonder if it retain the setting even when not connected to my phone.

*Yep, I just confirmed it with mine that the setting will be retained within the earbuds even when you are not connected to the app.


----------



## cwill

D3soLaT3 said:


> FIIL+ App is available for Android. Testing now on the T1x. Initial impressions: delicious bass.


I am still unable to add mine in the app. It isn't showing up to work. What's going on? Is there a trick to this?


----------



## voicemaster

cwill said:


> I am still unable to add mine in the app. It isn't showing up to work. What's going on? Is there a trick to this?


The app is different. It's not the global version anymore, so you need to go to playstore and search "Fill +" app and download it. Before, I think its called Fiil+ Global version or something.


----------



## voicemaster

Oh and the funny thing is, you don't even need to connect the earbud to your phone. Mine was connected to my desktop and the app in my phone just recognized it and you can change your setting without even disconnecting it from my desktop. Pretty neat.


----------



## cwill

voicemaster said:


> The app is different. It's not the global version anymore, so you need to go to playstore and search "Fill +" app and download it. Before, I think its called Fiil+ Global version or something.


There's only 1 app in the Play Store and the one you mentioned is the one I have.


----------



## voicemaster (Dec 26, 2019)

cwill said:


> There's only 1 app in the Play Store and the one you mentioned is the one I have.


Can u show me how the app looks?
This is the new one should look


----------



## cwill

voicemaster said:


> Can u show me how the app looks?
> This is the new one should look


Yes, it's this one. 

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.fengeek.f002


----------



## cwill

cwill said:


> Yes, it's this one.
> 
> https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.fengeek.f002


I'm stuck where it says "select headset". There's nothing to select.


----------



## voicemaster (Dec 26, 2019)

cwill said:


> Yes, it's this one.
> 
> https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.fengeek.f002


Did it search for your t1x? When the app find your earbuds, it will go to this page.

I have two t1x and they both got recognized at the same time in "search your headphone" page.


----------



## cwill

voicemaster said:


> Did it search for your t1x? When the app find your earbuds, it will go to this page.
> 
> I have two t1x and they both got recognized at the same time in "search your headphone" page.


Nope. I'm not getting to that at all. It doesn't see my buds.


----------



## voicemaster (Dec 26, 2019)

cwill said:


> Nope. I'm not getting to that at all. It doesn't see my buds.


how about resetting your phone and also your t1x? Should get this


----------



## cwill

voicemaster said:


> how about resetting your phone and also your t1x? Should get this


I restarted phone and forgot and repaired the headphones nothing's working


----------



## voicemaster

cwill said:


> I restarted phone and forgot and repaired the headphones nothing's working


What phone do you use?


----------



## cwill

voicemaster said:


> What phone do you use?


Pixel 3a


----------



## voicemaster

cwill said:


> Pixel 3a


Try with different phone maybe?


----------



## wksoh

Fttrb said:


> Anyone has Mpow M7?
> 
> A review says it is warm sounding with good bass.


I'm Curious too


----------



## wksoh

mikp said:


> ha, majorhifi and Audio46 again..


Are their reviews reliable? 
I thought their mpow m5 review was pretty spot on...


----------



## tomaszffffff

Hi, I'm about to order KZ S1D, could anyone comment on how are they compared to S1 hybrid? I can't stand that they decided not to give an option of black hybrid version, actually that's what makes me want to go dynamic. Or maybe I should look elsewhere for chi-fi TWS around 40$?


----------



## Quicky32

I have the Auvio tips on my T1X and they seem to fit better than the CP360 for me.  They are a lot firmer...hopefully they work well at the gym.


----------



## Caipirina

voicemaster said:


> Try with different phone maybe?


Funny how we assume here that a secondary phone is a given


----------



## karloil

assassin10000 said:


> Cool.
> 
> Do you have a bt20 or bt20s to compare? I'm wondering if they've turned the gain back down somewhat compared to the bt20s, so it's closer to the bt20 and would potentially have less noise with sensitive iems.



Really looking forward to someone comparing the 2 especially that FiiO confirmed that these are also made by TRN


----------



## LordToneeus

karloil said:


> Really looking forward to someone comparing the 2 especially that FiiO confirmed that these are also made by TRN


A bit off topic, but I noticed that on the most recent pair of TRN BT20S I bought the music does NOT automatically start as soon as I power them on.  I appreciate that little improvement.


----------



## hifi80sman

wksoh said:


> Are their reviews reliable?
> I thought their mpow m5 review was pretty spot on...


Their reviews are generally puff-pieces, especially Audio46 (they are retailers), which is understandable.

@Bartig has a good review.
https://www.scarbir.com/tws/mpow-m7-review


----------



## casper88

anyone can tell me about the case charging of mw07 plus. how should i know the charging is finished? i charge few hrs ,the light indicator still  visible . thx


----------



## voicemaster

Quicky32 said:


> I have the Auvio tips on my T1X and they seem to fit better than the CP360 for me.  They are a lot firmer...hopefully they work well at the gym.



Hope it is working for you. Every ears are different, even our own ears (left and right) are different.


----------



## clerkpalmer

casper88 said:


> anyone can tell me about the case charging of mw07 plus. how should i know the charging is finished? i charge few hrs ,the light indicator still  visible . thx


Green is fully charged. I can’t recall but I think it will stay lit for as long as it is plugged in.


----------



## voicemaster

Caipirina said:


> Funny how we assume here that a secondary phone is a given


You could borrow wife, friend, mom and dad phone if need be. Nothing can't stop you for audio nirvana .


----------



## hifi80sman

clerkpalmer said:


> Green is fully charged. I can’t recall but I think it will stay lit for as long as it is plugged in.


----------



## Caipirina

Coming back to the Powerbeats Pro, after long audition again and some A/B with the APP I bit the bullet and made them my Xmas present. 140$, even a bit cheaper as previous owner ‘lost’ the original cable. Heck, I have enough lightning cables. 
I seem to have a tiny bit of a fit issue, especially when I move my jaws. I am wondering what other tips others (@clerkpalmer @howdy ?) are using, if any. 
Kinda bugs me how Apple / Beats missed the chance to have that bulky case wireless charging! Guess they will release a PBP2 sone time for 50$ extra with that feature. Until then, I already saw on AliExpress, replacement cases with Qi for 20$ (15$ if you are in the US) 

I have not tested yet on a run, but on a walk last night it was surprisingly thud-less!!!


----------



## clerkpalmer

Caipirina said:


> Coming back to the Powerbeats Pro, after long audition again and some A/B with the APP I bit the bullet and made them my Xmas present. 140$, even a bit cheaper as previous owner ‘lost’ the original cable. Heck, I have enough lightning cables.
> I seem to have a tiny bit of a fit issue, especially when I move my jaws. I am wondering what other tips others (@clerkpalmer @howdy ?) are using, if any.
> Kinda bugs me how Apple / Beats missed the chance to have that bulky case wireless charging! Guess they will release a PBP2 sone time for 50$ extra with that feature. Until then, I already saw on AliExpress, replacement cases with Qi for 20$ (15$ if you are in the US)
> 
> I have not tested yet on a run, but on a walk last night it was surprisingly thud-less!!!



Cool. I think they sound a bit better than APP. Im not much of a tip roller. Stock tips work well for me. Large I believe for the best seal even though medium usually works for me.


----------



## FYLegend (Dec 27, 2019)

Anyone going for the Song X? Really digging the design. Has USB Type C and Wireless Charging, but unfortunately no AptX (Airoha chip) or volume control.






https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/song-x-tws-earbuds-sleek-design-great-sound#/

I suspect the fact that the Airpods lack volume control and the uneasiness of having a single tap or hold with touch controls has been putting off manufacturers from adding volume control.


----------



## tracyca




----------



## tracyca

Soundcore Liberty Pro 2 are no joke, they sound great!


----------



## Quicky32

Anyone dealt with Soundcore direct?  I sent my LP2 back on the 5th and have not heard anything or received a refund.


----------



## clerkpalmer

Quicky32 said:


> Anyone dealt with Soundcore direct?  I sent my LP2 back on the 5th and have not heard anything or received a refund.


Email them. They are very responsive.


----------



## howdy

Caipirina said:


> Coming back to the Powerbeats Pro, after long audition again and some A/B with the APP I bit the bullet and made them my Xmas present. 140$, even a bit cheaper as previous owner ‘lost’ the original cable. Heck, I have enough lightning cables.
> I seem to have a tiny bit of a fit issue, especially when I move my jaws. I am wondering what other tips others (@clerkpalmer @howdy ?) are using, if any.
> Kinda bugs me how Apple / Beats missed the chance to have that bulky case wireless charging! Guess they will release a PBP2 sone time for 50$ extra with that feature. Until then, I already saw on AliExpress, replacement cases with Qi for 20$ (15$ if you are in the US)
> 
> I have not tested yet on a run, but on a walk last night it was surprisingly thud-less!!!


I initially went with the Spinfits and after a bit tried the original Large tips and this is what I'm using now. One thing I found is that finding the right position on the over the ear things make a difference in sound as it applies pressure in sometimes the wrong area breaking the seal. They should be a shallow insertion with minimal pressure.
I adjusted mine with them on my ears tell I found what worked at what was comfortable. Just got done listening to mine about an hour ago.


----------



## srinivasvignesh

clerkpalmer said:


> Green is fully charged. I can’t recall but I think it will stay lit for as long as it is plugged in.



Green is not fully charged. Green just means it is > 70%, both for the buds and the case. Unfortunately, there is no direct indicator of reaching 100% charge.


----------



## clerkpalmer

srinivasvignesh said:


> Green is not fully charged. Green just means it is > 70%, both for the buds and the case. Unfortunately, there is no direct indicator of reaching 100% charge.


I stand corrected.


----------



## voicemaster

T1X with bass EQ is so damn fun. I am actually okay without using EQ, but using the bass preset, the sound is so much fun yet still crystal clear and airy. The bass has much more impact now especially kick drum and floor toms.


----------



## SoundChoice

tomaszffffff said:


> Hi, I'm about to order KZ S1D, could anyone comment on how are they compared to S1 hybrid? I can't stand that they decided not to give an option of black hybrid version, actually that's what makes me want to go dynamic. Or maybe I should look elsewhere for chi-fi TWS around 40$?



I don’t think many have the KZ yet. I ordered them late November and am still waiting. Consider the Dudios Zeus Air or Fiil.


----------



## casper88 (Dec 28, 2019)

clerkpalmer said:


> Green is fully charged. I can’t recall but I think it will stay lit for as long as it is plugged in.



when charging is finished. green light on case won’t turn off? green light indicates the battery is between 70-100% . not fully charging. thx


----------



## X-Nemesis

Is the t1x app fully functional on android yet?


----------



## SoundChoice

X-Nemesis said:


> Is the t1x app fully functional on android yet?


Define fully. It shows battery level, allows EQ, but I couldn’t find a burn-in module which exists on Apple version.


----------



## Mouseman

SoundChoice said:


> Define fully. It shows battery level, allows EQ, but I couldn’t find a burn-in module which exists on Apple version.


You have to select the menu up at the top and it's there. For some reason the T1X isn't an option, I just picked another model and used that for burn in.


----------



## X-Nemesis

SoundChoice said:


> Define fully. It shows battery level, allows EQ, but I couldn’t find a burn-in module which exists on Apple version.


Thanks,  I'd gotten the impression that this app didn't have working eq features for android yet,  which now you've clarified.


----------



## SoundChoice

X-Nemesis said:


> Thanks,  I'd gotten the impression that this app didn't have working eq features for android yet,  which now you've clarified.



Yes, and apparently the EQ settings stick with the buds with playing music after the app is closed, according to one user post a couple of days back.


----------



## voicemaster

SoundChoice said:


> Yes, and apparently the EQ settings stick with the buds with playing music after the app is closed, according to one user post a couple of days back.



Yes, the EQ retain within the earbuds itself without having to connect to the phone with app.


----------



## cwill

This is what shows in my FIIL app. I am unable to select my T1X or anything for that matter. Any ideas?


----------



## cwill (Dec 28, 2019)

Nothing shows up for me at all in the FIIL app. I don't know what I'm doing wrong. Did my screenshot come through here? I uploaded it and it says it's attached.


----------



## tracyca

Yes indeed, liberty pro2 sound better then the Sony and MTW.


----------



## Mifo04help

Any experience here with the Mifo 04's? I got them based on a Gamesky (youtube) review and have enjoyed them. However, in playing around with them I disconnected the earbuds from each other and have not been able to get them to connect again. I have tried using the Mifo 04 instruction manual tips, the Mifo 05 online suggestions and everything in between with no luck. If anyone has experience or tips that might work to reconnect the earbuds, I would be forever grateful.


----------



## voicemaster

cwill said:


> Nothing shows up for me at all in the FIIL app. I don't know what I'm doing wrong. Did my screenshot come through here? I uploaded it and it says it's attached.



I have chinese phones (oneplus7 and huawei huawei mate20x), maybe they blocked USA phone coz of trade war?


----------



## Sam L

d3myz said:


> i’d have to say the M5/T5, the SSK BT03/ Anbes 359, the Tranya B530, the Tranya T3 and the EarFun free are my favorite inexpensive TWS’. In my opinion the liberty 2 Pro is on another level entirely. In fact they are the most expensive true wireless earbuds I own for now. I’ve kind of prided myself on never spending more than 100 bucks on a set. After my experience with the L2pro, @hifi80sman’s and the rest of this threads borderline malevolent encouragement, i’ve convinced myself I need the Sonys.  God help my pocketbook.


Poked in here to catch up on reading this thread and yours is the first post I see. Your list of inexpensive tws models is identical to mine. But I'm trying to resist picking up some L2pros... Trying.. .


----------



## howdy

tracyca said:


> Yes indeed, liberty pro2 sound better then the Sony and MTW.


That's great as it's your ears but that's the first I heard that. I own all of those as well (and a few more) and still think the Sony as my best and the Senns a close 2nd. I think these are on par with my Power beats pro with the PBPs a step above due to its more comfortable.


----------



## X-Nemesis

Has anyone put wing tips on non wing tip buds, specifically I'm looking at the bomakers.


----------



## DynamicEars

Hi guys, I've been skipping the TWS because of SQ, and maybe will buy decent 1 later if they comeout with great hybrid or great DD. At least the SQ and technicalities can match up with great budget iem like kz zsx, or trn BA5, v90 or above them a bit like moondrop starfield, tinhifi t4, lz a6 mini etc.

I ve tried the sony WF 1000 XM3 just for a while, they are good and tuned well but value wise i still feel they are quite expensive.

So I just want to buy budget tws for a transit one while waiting for TWS to evolve more. Ive been fast read last hundreds of pages, wow this thread is crazy.

On budget level TWS which one have best SQ, i prefer the balanced one, a bit harmanish is good, good all rounder. With good soundstage and imaging if Im not asking too much.
I have a pair of qcy t1c and used by my wife.

Between QCY T5, new released Haylou GT1 plus (Qualcomm chipset, 7.2mm dd) which one is better in terms of SQ?
Seriously the other aspects are just bonuses if they are good, I just care about sound quality only. Or is there any better option down there?
Not gonna spend more than $30 for transit TWS.

Thanks in advance guys


----------



## chinmie

for those who owns QCY and Haylou TWS, you can try this app:
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.qcdroid.android.qcdroid

you can add volume functionality, show battery level and few other stuff. i tried it with my T1C and it works. i added volume control to the four button clicks. the free version is {obviously) has add screen on it, but there's an option to buy it


----------



## chinmie

DynamicEars said:


> Hi guys, I've been skipping the TWS because of SQ, and maybe will buy decent 1 later if they comeout with great hybrid or great DD. At least the SQ and technicalities can match up with great budget iem like kz zsx, or trn BA5, v90 or above them a bit like moondrop starfield, tinhifi t4, lz a6 mini etc.
> 
> I ve tried the sony WF 1000 XM3 just for a while, they are good and tuned well but value wise i still feel they are quite expensive.
> 
> ...



i have a soft spot for QCY products, i had three of them so far (and still kept two) and all of them has a pleasing balanced sound with mature tuning.

i like them so much that i personally won't buy 20usd or less wired earphones anymore, because i think they're just better sounding, more convenient to use, and just overall better valued

Haylou is also highly regarded here, though i have not test them personally. general consensus is Haylous are usually more bass oriented while QCYs are more balanced. both seems to be on the same SQ level


----------



## howdy

Man, this itch won't go away, I keep thinking of getting the MW07 plus or go. But there is thing called a conscious that tells me I have enough.
I have fairly good self control but, I miss that sound.
I generally sell something to justify the new toy but I'm at a point where I like everything I have so I'd have to just do it.


----------



## clerkpalmer

howdy said:


> Man, this itch won't go away, I keep thinking of getting the MW07 plus or go. But there is thing called a conscious that tells me I have enough.
> I have fairly good self control but, I miss that sound.
> I generally sell something to justify the new toy but I'm at a point where I like everything I have so I'd have to just do it.


Not to be an enabler but I just put my mw07 plus in the classifieds if you are interested. Used twice. Just not fitting properly for me. Not sure why.


----------



## howdy (Dec 28, 2019)

clerkpalmer said:


> Not to be an enabler but I just put my mw07 plus in the classifieds if you are interested. Used twice. Just not fitting properly for me. Not sure why.


At that price if they where the black ones, I would have bought instantly. That is a great price!
That's a fear of mine to is if they'll fit my right ear. I had issues with the first iteration.


----------



## clerkpalmer

howdy said:


> At that price if they where the black ones, I would have bought instantly. That is a great price!
> That's a fear of mine to is if they'll fit my right ear. I had issues with the first iteration.


Funny I always buy black. I decided to change it up. They don’t look much different than AirPods.


----------



## tracyca

These earbuds are tiny put pack a punch, jabra 75t sound great!


----------



## EvilJesus

Going to give it a go. Just picked up mw07 go for 120$ at Bloomingdale's. Top brand at that price just screamed give it a shot. Fingers crossed they come close to my mh40's that I absolutely love.


----------



## stain

Bought the Tranya Rimor and the sound is perfect, except there’s almost no bass when compared with even cheaper buds.

I have the Fiil T1X coming next week, and have read here and watched a few reviews that say the new app gives a lot of options, which is crazy for $40.


----------



## hifi80sman

howdy said:


> At that price if they where the black ones, I would have bought instantly. That is a great price!
> That's a fear of mine to is if they'll fit my right ear. I had issues with the first iteration.


I always think about pulling the trigger on the MW07 Plus, until I remember they do not support AAC and multipoint, which the 1st version does.  I read on here a firmware update is claimed to be in the works, but take that with a grain (or more) of salt.


----------



## Caipirina

howdy said:


> Man, this itch won't go away, I keep thinking of getting the MW07 plus or go. But there is thing called a conscious that tells me I have enough.
> I have fairly good self control but, I miss that sound.
> I generally sell something to justify the new toy but I'm at a point where I like everything I have so I'd have to just do it.



This is how I felt about getting the Powerbeats Pro! 

And now I am very glad I got them. I put them through the paces today on a 26mile (42k) run and they still had 56% battery left, enough for another marathon  Sound and fit are great, I have never been a big fan of using Siri, but today that worked actually really smoothly and was very useful (change volume, new playlist)
What surprised me most is that there is NO runner's thud! I thought the fit is similar to the APP, while in-ear, no full insertion. But I get that thud with the APP, not with the PBP. Also, no pain from that ear hook after 4h. 
Overall very happy!

May you reach the same level of happiness eventually with your MW07 plus or go


----------



## telly

For the gym and podcasts, I use airpods cause they're just so convenient. But if I'm studying or really want a great listening experience, I think wired is the way to go. I've also experienced a bit of delay/lag when using some other bluetooth headphones in the past.


----------



## webvan

Caipirina said:


> This is how I felt about getting the Powerbeats Pro!
> 
> And now I am very glad I got them. I put them through the paces today on a 26mile (42k) run and they still had 56% battery left, enough for another marathon  Sound and fit are great, I have never been a big fan of using Siri, but today that worked actually really smoothly and was very useful (change volume, new playlist)
> What surprised me most is that there is NO runner's thud! I thought the fit is similar to the APP, while in-ear, no full insertion. But I get that thud with the APP, not with the PBP. Also, no pain from that ear hook after 4h.
> ...



An IEM that seals the ear canal with no runner's thud? That sounds like black magic! Can you compare how it feels to run with them versus THE runner's TWE, i. e, the X12? Much less ambient noise, less wind noise too I suppose? On top of the thud I also found that IEMs somewhat altered my sense of balance.


----------



## Caipirina

webvan said:


> An IEM that seals the ear canal with no runner's thud? That sounds like black magic! Can you compare how it feels to run with them versus THE runner's TWE, i. e, the X12? Much less ambient noise, less wind noise too I suppose? On top of the thud I also found that IEMs somewhat altered my sense of balance.


 
It DOES appear like black magic! Even when I got a sweat on and that resulted in a better seal... still no thud! I want to find some YT review that corroborates that. Maybe I am just going crazy 
Never noticed any balance issue with IEM vs open. 
Will have to see how I can set up some running ABing for those 2 models ... can’t say much about ambient noise, as Japan along the river is wonderfully serene. 
Speaking of half in ear TWS, there is another cheapo out now called the YA12 (a very clear X12 clone with clicky buttons), and since I had some coupons to burn, I jumped on that one. Let’s see, might be as bad as that infamous T8 model


----------



## georgelai57

Caipirina said:


> It DOES appear like black magic! Even when I got a sweat on and that resulted in a better seal... still no thud! I want to find some YT review that corroborates that. Maybe I am just going crazy
> Never noticed any balance issue with IEM vs open.
> Will have to see how I can set up some running ABing for those 2 models ... can’t say much about ambient noise, as Japan along the river is wonderfully serene.
> Speaking of half in ear TWS, there is another cheapo out now called the YA12 (a very clear X12 clone with clicky buttons), and since I had some coupons to burn, I jumped on that one. Let’s see, might be as bad as that infamous T8 model


I wonder if that is the last purchase of yours in 2019. Probably not


----------



## chinmie

georgelai57 said:


> I wonder if that is the last purchase of yours in 2019. Probably not



don't worry, @Caipirina still has 2 days to go


----------



## Caipirina

georgelai57 said:


> I wonder if that is the last purchase of yours in 2019. Probably not


 Let’s see if they put up anything interesting on AliX in the next 48h


----------



## bronco1015

DynamicEars said:


> Hi guys, I've been skipping the TWS because of SQ, and maybe will buy decent 1 later if they comeout with great hybrid or great DD. At least the SQ and technicalities can match up with great budget iem like kz zsx, or trn BA5, v90 or above them a bit like moondrop starfield, tinhifi t4, lz a6 mini etc.
> 
> I ve tried the sony WF 1000 XM3 just for a while, they are good and tuned well but value wise i still feel they are quite expensive.
> 
> ...


Can you get hold of the Bomaker SiFi? They do charge via Micro USB, but have a small case, IPX 7,  and honestly sound Efing amazing! They have volume control, track navigation, access to your assistent, are very small and comfortable to wear, can't find my manual or the specs online from bomakers site, for battery life anyway, other than a general estimate of 25-30 hours according to the product info section of amazon US. Haven't tested this yet, but from those specs i'd say 6 hours of use from them is likely possible. Most i've worn them for was 2 hours tonight and 2.5 hours a couple days ago, and they were almost at 90% the other day, forgot to check today before i plugged them back in. These are a great all arounder but if i point one thing out about the sound sig, it's that theres some sloppy sub bass at times, but doesn't drown anything out but point it out because that's the biggest flaw i've noticed. generally, as much as a TWS can have a soundstage of any kind, and a couple manage to, these do pretty well in that regard as well. I had a pair of QCY T1C, and if they hadn't been stolen i'd still have them. But the Bomakers have fuller mids, and across the board; are smoother and mor controled by a sizeable amount. the MSRP is $50. one could do far worse for $50, but on Amazon U.S. theres a $15 off coupon, and Bomaker is offering at minimum on their site 10% off. Yes there are better TWEs out there, but most of them, cost 2, 3 times or mor than these. At $35, they are a noBrainer if any of the use cases i mentioned meet what you're looking for. oh a couple other important things, they support APTX,  AAC and can be paired and used in mono..


----------



## LordToneeus

bronco1015 said:


> Can you get hold of the Bomaker SiFi? They do charge via Micro USB, but have a small case, IPX 7,  and honestly sound Efing amazing! They have volume control, track navigation, access to your assistent, are very small and comfortable to wear, can't find my manual or the specs online from bomakers site, for battery life anyway, other than a general estimate of 25-30 hours according to the product info section of amazon US. Haven't tested this yet, but from those specs i'd say 6 hours of use from them is likely possible. Most i've worn them for was 2 hours tonight and 2.5 hours a couple days ago, and they were almost at 90% the other day, forgot to check today before i plugged them back in. These are a great all arounder but if i point one thing out about the sound sig, it's that theres some sloppy sub bass at times, but doesn't drown anything out but point it out because that's the biggest flaw i've noticed. generally, as much as a TWS can have a soundstage of any kind, and a couple manage to, these do pretty well in that regard as well. I had a pair of QCY T1C, and if they hadn't been stolen i'd still have them. But the Bomakers have fuller mids, and across the board; are smoother and mor controled by a sizeable amount. the MSRP is $50. one could do far worse for $50, but on Amazon U.S. theres a $15 off coupon, and Bomaker is offering at minimum on their site 10% off. Yes there are better TWEs out there, but most of them, cost 2, 3 times or mor than these. At $35, they are a noBrainer if any of the use cases i mentioned meet what you're looking for. oh a couple other important things, they support APTX,  AAC and can be paired and used in mono..


AND they’re coming up for a Lightning Deal on Amazon a bit later today!


----------



## C_Lindbergh

tracyca said:


> These earbuds are tiny put pack a punch, jabra 75t sound great!



I think they just sound ok, at least for my music (rock/metal) but they are perfect in almost any other way, but in the end SQ is the most imporant feature so I sold them :/


----------



## HiFlight

bronco1015 said:


> Can you get hold of the Bomaker SiFi? They do charge via Micro USB, but have a small case, IPX 7,  and honestly sound Efing amazing! They have volume control, track navigation, access to your assistent, are very small and comfortable to wear, can't find my manual or the specs online from bomakers site, for battery life anyway, other than a general estimate of 25-30 hours according to the product info section of amazon US. Haven't tested this yet, but from those specs i'd say 6 hours of use from them is likely possible. Most i've worn them for was 2 hours tonight and 2.5 hours a couple days ago, and they were almost at 90% the other day, forgot to check today before i plugged them back in. These are a great all arounder but if i point one thing out about the sound sig, it's that theres some sloppy sub bass at times, but doesn't drown anything out but point it out because that's the biggest flaw i've noticed. generally, as much as a TWS can have a soundstage of any kind, and a couple manage to, these do pretty well in that regard as well. I had a pair of QCY T1C, and if they hadn't been stolen i'd still have them. But the Bomakers have fuller mids, and across the board; are smoother and mor controled by a sizeable amount. the MSRP is $50. one could do far worse for $50, but on Amazon U.S. theres a $15 off coupon, and Bomaker is offering at minimum on their site 10% off. Yes there are better TWEs out there, but most of them, cost 2, 3 times or mor than these. At $35, they are a noBrainer if any of the use cases i mentioned meet what you're looking for. oh a couple other important things, they support APTX,  AAC and can be paired and used in mono..


+1 on the Bomaker... Probably the best all-arounder for the least money at $35!


----------



## sarv

Been using the 1More for a week now. I'm still having trouble finding the right fit they still fall out on my ears, I tried spinfit cc360s, they did improve it a bit, ANC seem to block out aircons, microwaves and sounds like that ( haven't tried any other ANCs).
Sound wise they're gonna please the basshead like me eapespecia the using stongs ANC.


----------



## clerkpalmer

sarv said:


> Been using the 1More for a week now. I'm still having trouble finding the right fit they still fall out on my ears, I tried spinfit cc360s, they did improve it a bit, ANC seem to block out aircons, microwaves and sounds like that ( haven't tried any other ANCs).
> Sound wise they're gonna please the basshead like me eapespecia the using stongs ANC.


Interesting on fit as I would have thought the fit would be the star of the show. Like Bose. Can you compare the sound quality to other tws you have tried? Are they worth 200 bucks? I’m intrigued by them but 200 plus no returns in the US seems like a risk. Maybe when they make them to the US store.


----------



## Rob E. (Dec 29, 2019)

HiFlight said:


> +1 on the Bomaker... Probably the best all-arounder for the least money at $35!





Rob E. said:


> Speaking of the Bomaker; fwiw, and just my opinion; They do tend to be bright (not sibilant). V. good soundstage and nicely detailed. They benefit from using Comply (or foam) tips. Tames the highs without smothering them. I liked almost everything about them except their inability to handle deeper bass. If driven past a certain point - but within reason and sane volume, the driver will overload and break up. Something that won't happen - for example - with any of the Tranya's  I've used. I kept the Bomaker's just shy of a month before they were returned with some regret.



_Maybe, _at _that_ price,it might be, but considering the available coupon discounts, I would opine the Fiil T1x a better overall package & product than the Bomaker, for about $5.00 more. Granted, we all hear differently and to each their own, but, the SiFi, is bass challenged beyond a certain point with some music. Imnsho.


----------



## clerkpalmer

hifi80sman said:


> I always think about pulling the trigger on the MW07 Plus, until I remember they do not support AAC and multipoint, which the 1st version does.  I read on here a firmware update is claimed to be in the works, but take that with a grain (or more) of salt.


Yeah. They keep promising an update but I’m not holding my breath. Separately, maybe it’s in my mind, but my mw07 go sounded better to me on my note versus the mw07 plus on iOS. A lot of thing may contribute to the differences and it wasn’t back to back but in the end I’m not going back to mw07 until aac is supported or I switch back to android.


----------



## sarv

clerkpalmer said:


> Interesting on fit as I would have thought the fit would be the star of the show. Like Bose. Can you compare the sound quality to other tws you have tried? Are they worth 200 bucks? I’m intrigued by them but 200 plus no returns in the US seems like a risk. Maybe when they make them to the US store.


Only tried 2 other tws (RHA and Sabbat e12) both had better fit for me then these, in my opinion wait for better reviews on YouTube, I'm not really a expect in this, soz


----------



## clerkpalmer

sarv said:


> Only tried 2 other tws (RHA and Sabbat e12) both had better fit for me then these, in my opinion wait for better reviews on YouTube, I'm not really a expect in this, soz


Fair enough. I thought the RHA sounded very nice.


----------



## Bhelpoori

Don't know whether this is the right place, but this thread is the only one I regularly visit...

I was gifted the APP as a birthday present and I’ve used them on several flights since then,  as well as using them daily for dog walks. My go to aircraft headphones are either WH-1000XM3s or Bose 700s, so I thought you’d like a comparison, especially as all are roughly the same price.

TL;DR: I was surprised how good the APPs are…. they just need better battery life to beat the over-ears for flying. They are easily the best headphone for dog walks of all the TWS and over ears I have.


Sound Quality. The WH-1000XM3s, with EQ or better True-Fi, are the best to listen to almost all types of music and video I listen to. The APPs, surprisingly for me, come in second,  with the Bose 700s last.  Let’s be clear  that none match the Etymotic ER-4XR for music listening to my old ears, but you’re on a plane so music fidelity is inevitably compromised.
Comfort. I have glasses so in-ears are always going to beat over-ears for me, however, the APPs are easily the most comfortable in-ears/TWS I have whereas the ER-4XR are at the other end of the spectrum. I prefer the XM3s over the 700s by a significant margin: firstly I can’t sleep in the 700s because they stick out so you can’t sleep resting with your head on the window, secondly the XM3s have a more comfortable headband and ear-cups. Having said that I’ve worn the Bose for many hours without annoyance.. The APPs just fade away when I sleep and don’t fall out. A big win for the APP for me.
Microphone/Call quality. The XM3s have unacceptable call quality for conference calls, the Etymotics don’t even have a microphone (and don’t even mention the one with the ES100 BT adapter) which is why I got the 700s to try to get a single headphone for flights and conference calls… which was the holy grail for me. The 700s have indeed got an amazing microphone that is easily the best of any Bluetooth headphone, however, the APP is the first TWS which has an acceptable microphone (and this my 5th TWS). I was shocked how good the APP’s microphone is.
Video and Sound latency. I’m incredibly sensitive to latency where sound and lip movement diverge in videos.  The XM3 is the worst, to the point that though the sound is great, I cannot watch some Netflix on an iPad with the XM3. The 700 is better than the XM3 but the APP is significantly better than either, and tests prove it ([AirPods Pro Bluetooth Latency - stephencoyle.net](https://stephencoyle.net/airpods-pro). The APP is the only one I can have keyboard clicks turn on and not get too upset. However, the APP isn’t good enough to do video or audio editing, or the like so don’t get your hopes up too much. (Oh, and LDAP on an Android is not that much better BTW for the XM3s to my eyes)
Transparency mode. I think all are good enough, however, I’ve noticed that the XM3 and the others differ: The XM3 blocks out loud sounds such as sirens whereas the others let them through. I like the XM3 for doing that and think it is a big benefit. 
Bugs. All of these headphones have bugs that annoy but the best, most sorted one, is easily the APP.  For example, when you’re taking off the noise cancelling doesn’t go bananas like the other two. Don’t get me started on the 700 which shouldn’t have been released with the bugs it had, and still has bugs like transparency mode suddenly reverting back after a few seconds, or mute doesn’t work properly in some standard conferencing systems e.g. MS Teams. The XM3 ones are well documented. 
Battery life. The APP is a pain on the 11-15 hour flights I typically take, since at best they last 5 hours, and at worst only 3.5 hours. The latter is because the one thing that kills battery life is the use of the microphone on a conference or phone call,  yet it is my most often use in the departure or arrivals areas. The Sony has battery life you forget about, the Bose is just  OK.  Even with the knowledge that the battery life is too low, I still ended up  using the APPs on the flight when I could because of comfort, then refilling them, and using them again.
Noise Cancelling. This is dependent on where you’re sitting and the type of plane/engines/ age  so I can’t give you a scientific answer. However, I’ve travelled with the XM3 and 700 for over 25k air miles and can say the XM3 are slightly better than the 700. After about 10K air miles with the APP and 700s together, I think the 700s are better in the air, whereas on the ground I think the APP is about equal, since it seems to cut traffic noise better. I didn’t expect the APP to be even close to the 700 or XM3 but it can be in some circumstances. It is almost as if the APP is tuned for City noise and the others for aircraft cabin noise. Oh, and the best noise deadening solution remains the XM3s on the outside and the ER-4XRs on the inside….
Walk thump. I walk a lot with headphones whether it be with dogs or luggage around an airport. I have little to no thump at all with the APPs and am delighted but surprised. I get some thump with every other TWS, and let’s not talk about the Etymotics.. Yes, I do get thump if I run, but I don’t run much, so that isn’t  a problem for me.


----------



## jant71

I'll update my experience after a week with the Motorola Verve Buds 200.




Been happy with the design and build. Worthy of a brand like Motorola and more solid than a lot of the $40-ish generic black plastic build models. Small solid case, LED cutely integrated into the logo. They use red and blue. Red for charge, blue for connection, blinking red and blue for pairing. Wings and such well made and fit in well. I have the middle size attachment for my most secure fit. The neckband is the same size as the medium as far as ear fitting size. I can also use the smallest size for regular use but they not stay in when active. Maybe the VB 200 are a bit bigger than some other models but only the smaller ears should have an issue. I settled on these blue generic tips from some cheap in-ears I had tried or reviewed some time back...




Still find the connection very solid. Range does cap at 50 feet though. Not the 70 or so like with the BackBay Duet 50 but the connection is faster and even better than those were. Chatty little things though they connect as fast as anything I have had so far. Bout as fast as my Philips action fit cans I also recently got and is a just released BT5.0 model. You get the "Hello Moto', "power on", "R pairing", "L pairing", and "connected" all in a row right quick but I don't catch that all unless you are in a hurry getting them in your ears.

The sound is solid for the $40-ish price. A good gym/exercise sound. Big stage and more up front and immediate but still hears some things can be thrown with more depth if in the recording. Bassy but rich and some heft to it more than just a big bass slant. Good mix of richness and clarity and the good size and not slow or plodding in the decay. I did add treble EQ in the beginning but after run in I didn't need it anymore.  Maybe if going to larger tips and sealing them up as much as possible where they will give the most bass but I am good with M size tips. A big upfront sound with good but not overbearing bass is good for the intended purpose but also something I like for regular music listening. Engaging is engaging. Might get you going when running around but still fun in general for my tastes. I like em! Got them for free but would be fine if I had paid for them as, IMO, they are worth their price and good for sports and casual listening.


----------



## Quicky32

Fit is much better with the Auvio tips on my T1X.  Pretty good sound for a $40 set but bass can sound boomy at times. I’ll have to keep testing but I swear they sound better using my IPhone than my IPod.


----------



## voicemaster

cwill said:


> Nothing shows up for me at all in the FIIL app. I don't know what I'm doing wrong. Did my screenshot come through here? I uploaded it and it says it's attached.


Try opening the case while the app is searching for the earbuds. Or you can just leave the earbuds in the case with the case open while connecting to the app.


----------



## voicemaster

Quicky32 said:


> Fit is much better with the Auvio tips on my T1X.  Pretty good sound for a $40 set but bass can sound boomy at times. I’ll have to keep testing but I swear they sound better using my IPhone than my IPod.


The bass will tighten up as you continue using it.


----------



## chinmie

so i finally found a (highly unorthodox ) way to fit the GGMM T1 securely to my ears without the occasional slipping, and also no thump when running. also surprisingly it adds airy-ness to the sound without thinning out the mids at all.

it looks uncomfortable, but surprisingly it's the contrary 

i might perfect it later by snipping and rounding off the edges, but even like this it's fine. bonus is, they still fit nicely on the case

i suspect i would need this type of solution everytime I'm encounter this Powerbeats Pro-like form factor TWS


----------



## tracyca

C_Lindbergh said:


> I think they just sound ok, at least for my music (rock/metal) but they are perfect in almost any other way, but in the end SQ is the most imporant feature so I sold them :/


Not the best sounding but not bad for the size. The liberty pro 2 are still my favorite.


----------



## Caipirina

Bhelpoori said:


> Don't know whether this is the right place, but this thread is the only one I regularly visit...
> 
> I was gifted the APP as a birthday present and I’ve used them on several flights since then,  as well as using them daily for dog walks. My go to aircraft headphones are either WH-1000XM3s or Bose 700s, so I thought you’d like a comparison, especially as all are roughly the same price.
> 
> ...



i agree that the APP are indeed THAT good. This is my first trip I left my Bose QC35 behind, more space in my carry-on (instead i brought the very pocketable QC20, for wired connection). Yes, more battery life would be nice, but that’s pretty much the only downside.


----------



## LostnAmerica

webvan said:


> Same here, two improvements announced in the release notes :
> - Improved AAC Playback
> - Improved compatibility with Google Chrome Books
> 
> ...


You are saying that the update made the hissing worse? Dang...


----------



## chinmie

Caipirina said:


> i agree that the APP are indeed THAT good. This is my first trip I left my Bose QC35 behind, more space in my carry-on (instead i brought the very pocketable QC20, for wired connection). Yes, more battery life would be nice, but that’s pretty much the only downside.



how's the ANC of the APP fares up to the QC20?


----------



## Caipirina

chinmie said:


> how's the ANC of the APP fares up to the QC20?


I wish I had paid more attention to that, will try on return flight. 
Needless to say, the fact that I do not even recall them feeling vastly different is a good sign that indeed, they must be very close in the ANC department.


----------



## webvan

chinmie said:


> so i finally found a (highly unorthodox ) way to fit the GGMM T1 securely to my ears without the occasional slipping, and also no thump when running. also surprisingly it adds airy-ness to the sound without thinning out the mids at all.
> 
> it looks uncomfortable, but surprisingly it's the contrary
> 
> ...


That looks weird indeed ! These are complys right ? So do you squish them at all ? @Caipirina found that the PBS (with the stock tips?) produced no "runner's thud" which is unheard of for an IEM that seals the ear canal. They're a bit expensive just to try though, the GGMM T1 not so much.


----------



## Caipirina

webvan said:


> That looks weird indeed ! These are complys right ? So do you squish them at all ? @Caipirina found that the PBS (with the stock tips?) produced no "runner's thud" which is unheard of for an IEM that seals the ear canal. They're a bit expensive just to try though, the GGMM T1 not so much.



i have to check again (maybe I was delirious from too much running) but I am pretty certain there was no thud and I was really surprised. 

in other news, there is another earhook style TWS that I suspect to be thudless, as it is semi open style. As an added ‘weird’ bonus it has a funky case that opens on both sides. 
 

Will report on those after winter break. At that price point I am not expecting any sonic wonders. When I ordered it I did not know yet I would get the PBPro.


----------



## chinmie

webvan said:


> That looks weird indeed ! These are complys right ? So do you squish them at all ? @Caipirina found that the PBS (with the stock tips?) produced no "runner's thud" which is unheard of for an IEM that seals the ear canal. They're a bit expensive just to try though, the GGMM T1 not so much.




it's "New Bee" brand foam tips, much cheaper than comply as it's about less than 5 usd per pack (6 pairs)

i think the PB pro would have the same problem with my ears, but i probably won't try it anyway, because one earhook type for sport in my arsenal is enough for now, and I'm really liking the sound of this GGMM, it's really warm and full, much closer to a full headphone


----------



## webvan

Thanks, found the "New Bee" on Amazon, they seem to have two types, one that looks like Comply and one that seems "harder/shinier" that reminds me of those that came with the Jabra Sport Elite and that I quite liked. I've tried the Complys several times and while they do isolate well I don't like how they muffle the sound and are a general pain to squish and insert.
I've added the GGMM to my list, they have them on Amazon so I might give them a try even if I'm not sure the X12 can be bettered for running


----------



## Leeco (Dec 30, 2019)

Hi Guys!

I haven’t seen any mention of SoundPeats TrueAir here, so with that being said ...
This is my first "review", so be gentle, OK?




These are “open” style earphones, designed so you can hear your surroundings while listening to music or spoken word. If you need isolation – these are NOT for you! If you need earphones for commuting – these are NOT for you! Shopping in a big mall or taking a dog for a walk on the busy city streets – these are NOT for you.

But... if you are at home, a quiet office, or taking a walk in the nature, these are GREAT.
Also, if you don’t like the feeling of plugged-in ears, like IEMs or most TWSs give you, these are for you.

Are TrueAir TWS perfect? No!
Are they better then Apple Airpods (1st or 2nd gen)? Yes.

Sound: ★★★★★ (5 stars)

Clear, detailed and spacious. Similar to Apple Airpods, but more 3D and more spacious. When wearing Airpods I hear the sound coming directly from left and right. When I wear TrueAirs, the sound seems to come from all around my head. The clarity and separation is like going from SD (Standard Definition on Airpods) to true HD (high definition).

I hear people saying “No way, man! These can’t be better than Senn TWS or B&O, or [_inset your favorite TWS here_]!”

Well.... if you consider that I found them for less than $30 US for a pair (on Amazon) ...
And I am not comparing them to Senns or B&O or Sonies here... just OG Airpods.

You see, TWS main advantage is convenience. And that is why Apple Airpods became the most popular TWS in the history (plus a lot of Apple marketing and removal of 3.5mm audio jack...)

While I do use Airpods for watching/listening to YouTube videos, I always switched to “real” earbuds when listening to music on the go (Fiio BTR1k + Sony MH755).

I think most people here on Head-Fi would consider TrueAir to be slightly on the bright side. To me, they remind me of my old Etymotic Er6: clear, detailed, but unlike the Etys ... also “open” sounding. I can’t make a direct comparison because my Er6 broke last year... 

So, not for the bassheads, but the clarity is sooo ...... my SSK BT03 have a lovely bass, but do sound “muddy” in direct A-B comparison and SSKs do sound closed.
TrueAirs sound "open"...
How many good “open” TWS do you know?

-          14.2 mm driver in a TWS? (MF-1000XM3 has a 6mm driver & L2P has 11mm)

-          biological diaphragm? (is it “biocellulose diaphragm”. Maybe.... maybe NOT. But I wanted to hear it!)

Build: ★★★★☆ (4 stars)

The case is about 50% thicker than Airpods case, and rounder. You can open the lid with one finger, just like Airpods case. Unlike Airpods case that stays open, TrueAir  can close by itself if you hold it at a specific angle. And while it is slightly bigger that the Airpods case, it’s smaller than most other TWS cases. (Yes, TrueAirs do fit is that small jeans pocket.)

The design of the TrueAir earbuds is slightly bulkier than Airpods. Where Airpods are round and “streamlined”, TrueAirs have oval stem and rounded corners. Their build feels slightly cheaper and flimsier that the OG Airpods.

On the other side, TrueAir buds are very easy to take out: put a finger anywhere behind them and pull towards you. The Airpods are much trickier to get out: you need two fingers to do a “pinch”, or a single finger with a lot of force in a specific area. If you give Airpods to anybody who has never used them before, watch them struggle as they try to get them out. TrueAirs don’t have this problem.

Connection: ★★★☆☆ (3 stars)

At home I had no connection problems with TrueAirs when the phone was in my pocket. Why only 3 stars? Well, the range of the Bluetooth is a few meters shorter than the other TWS I have. On TrueAirs I can get about 7 or 8 meters from my Pixel 3A (which uses Bluetooth 5 and AptX). In comparison, I would give original Airpods 4 stars (out of 5) – I can get 10 to 12 meters without interruptions.

The TrueAirs can give you a problem outside though. When I took my dog for a walk and was in a big open space, they skipped a few times. I am right handed, so I keep my phone in the right pocket most of the time. But while TrueAirs do make two Bluetooth connections when you pair them for the first time, when you take them out, the Left one becomes a master. And while I never had any skips or interruptions inside my house no matter what pocket my phone was in, outside – in open areas, they had trouble keeping stable connection from my right pocket to the Left [master] bud.

So, are they unusable outside? No, I do use them quite a lot actually - when I walk my dog. I just make sure to put my phone in the LEFT pocket.  I never had any skips since. Would I use them at the station? No, they let all the surround noises in. The shopping mall? Too noisy. For places like that I use TWS with rubber tips that “seal” the ears.

_Edit:
I did experience problems when I went for a run with my old “small” iPhone 5s. It didn’t matter what pocket I used - it had trouble in open areas to keep perfect connection. But iPhone 5s uses “old” Bluetooth 4.0 (!) standard. So if you have an old phone these are probably not recommended._

Ease of Use: ★★★★★ (5 stars)

Well, they are very similar to original Airpods... but with better controls. Single tap increases the volume on the right and decreases on the left. Double tap stops and starts the music. Long press skips to the next song on the right earbud and goes to the previous song on the left. And finally triple tap starts Voice Assistant. The taps register almost perfectly all the time, unless I touch in the wrong spot. My original Airpods can only register double taps, and they work 90% of the time. TrueAirs do feel more reliable (99%?) and give me all the controls I need.

Customer Service: ★★★★★ (5 stars)

I bought SoundPeats TrueAir TWS at the end of the November on Amazon for a very good price of $30 US. I thought I would use them as a backup to my first gen Airpods. I was interested to see how qcc3020 chip and AptX codec would perform in Airpods-style “open” type of TWS. I was so impressed that I decided to buy a second pair. It was a steal at the price they were selling it for on Amazon.  When Cyber Monday came, I bought another pair for one of my kids as a Christmas present.

The third pair had a problem though... The left earbud [the master] had a noticeable (white?) noise. It was easily audible when the volume was very low or in between the songs. I tried to reset the buds and “forget” them from my phone, but it didn’t work. The next day, December 26th (the 2nd Christmas Day) I contacted the seller (SoundPeats Japan) through Amazon AND found SoundPeats page on Facebook and send a private message describing the problem. Not expecting much, because it was Christmas, I thought it would be nice if I got a reply in a few days. But the very next day I got a message from SoundPeats  Facebook asking me for more info and to try different things. I did, but nothing helped. So I send a reply back. The next day I got a message saying that they will prepare a new unit as soon as I receive a confirmation email from them in a few days. I few days and a few emails later I got a mail saying that they are sending a new unit to me and I don’t even have to send the old (noisy) unit back. How great is that?

Today, December 30th, I received the new unit and it is perfect.

What about my original Airpods? I stopped using them.

So, are TrueAirs better than original Airpods? Yes!
Are they perfect for every situation? No! But nothing is perfect for every situation.

They are perfect for what I use them for and they feel like an upgrade from my old Airpods.


----------



## jasaero

Who all has tried these?  Does $30 make them a unique value?

https://bgr.com/2019/12/30/amazon-price-mistake-airpods-rivals-from-anker/


----------



## Rob E. (Dec 30, 2019)

jasaero said:


> Who all has tried these?  Does $30 make them a unique value?
> 
> https://bgr.com/2019/12/30/amazon-price-mistake-airpods-rivals-from-anker/



Good marketing. An end-of-year push to clear out older technology inventory. Short 3.5 hr playtime battery and Bluetooth 4.2. Maybe a good deal for some. Nothing unique.
Edit: Btw,... the word 'unique' means one of a kind. Literally. It doesn't mean something is special or exceptional or good or novel. Fwiw.


----------



## jlo mein

bronco1015 said:


> Can you get hold of the Bomaker SiFi? They do charge via Micro USB, but have a small case, IPX 7,  and honestly sound Efing amazing! They have volume control, track navigation, access to your assistent, are very small and comfortable to wear, can't find my manual or the specs online from bomakers site, for battery life anyway, other than a general estimate of 25-30 hours according to the product info section of amazon US. Haven't tested this yet, but from those specs i'd say 6 hours of use from them is likely possible. Most i've worn them for was 2 hours tonight and 2.5 hours a couple days ago, and they were almost at 90% the other day, forgot to check today before i plugged them back in. These are a great all arounder but if i point one thing out about the sound sig, it's that theres some sloppy sub bass at times, but doesn't drown anything out but point it out because that's the biggest flaw i've noticed. generally, as much as a TWS can have a soundstage of any kind, and a couple manage to, these do pretty well in that regard as well. I had a pair of QCY T1C, and if they hadn't been stolen i'd still have them. But the Bomakers have fuller mids, and across the board; are smoother and mor controled by a sizeable amount. the MSRP is $50. one could do far worse for $50, but on Amazon U.S. theres a $15 off coupon, and Bomaker is offering at minimum on their site 10% off. Yes there are better TWEs out there, but most of them, cost 2, 3 times or mor than these. At $35, they are a noBrainer if any of the use cases i mentioned meet what you're looking for. oh a couple other important things, they support APTX,  AAC and can be paired and used in mono..



Have to say after a tip upgrade, my Bomaker are my absolute favourite.  Fit and comfort were acceptable with the stock black midsize tips for me, but now I'm using Spinfit CP360 Small tips that I DIY stuffed with cut foam earplugs.  The Spinfit silicone is much more soft and pliable, and having them stuffed with foam increases isolation.  The Bomaker design and sound really benefit from very deep insertion.  I normally wear medium tips on other IEMs but use Small with these for deeper fit. 

I personally find them bass heavy and lacking some treble. EQing corrects the highs but they're still slightly metallic sounding.  Many here seem to think they lack bass which is interesting.


----------



## SoundChoice

Caipirina said:


> i agree that the APP are indeed THAT good. This is my first trip I left my Bose QC35 behind, more space in my carry-on (instead i brought the very pocketable QC20, for wired connection). Yes, more battery life would be nice, but that’s pretty much the only downside.



With the understanding that there is no one thing upon which a group of audiophiles can agree, is the general consensus that the APPs are one of the best out there right now, with the Liberty 2 Pros and Sony Xm3s a close 2nd? Is there a cluster of 5-7 TWS in the $50-195 range that most can agree are top tier?


----------



## webvan

jlo mein said:


> Have to say after a tip upgrade, my Bomaker are my absolute favourite.  Fit and comfort were acceptable with the stock black midsize tips for me, but now I'm using Spinfit CP360 Small tips that I DIY stuffed with cut foam earplugs.  The Spinfit silicone is much more soft and pliable, and having them stuffed with foam increases isolation.  The Bomaker design and sound really benefit from very deep insertion.  I normally wear medium tips on other IEMs but use Small with these for deeper fit.
> 
> I personally find them bass heavy and lacking some treble. EQing corrects the highs but they're still slightly metallic sounding.  Many here seem to think they lack bass which is interesting.



Agree on "deep insertion" of the Bomakers, that's why I like the flat transparent tips as they allow that type of insertion without the pressure that comes with wider tips. Having said that I find they have a hard time staying in place if I'm on the move and the seal break easily...


----------



## jasaero (Dec 30, 2019)

Rob E. said:


> Good marketing. An end-of-year push to clear out older technology inventory. Short 3.5 hr playtime battery and Bluetooth 4.2. Maybe a good deal for some. Nothing unique.
> Edit: Btw,... the word 'unique' means one of a kind. Literally. It doesn't mean something is special or exceptional or good or novel. Fwiw.



Haha...yeah...I meant to ask if they were a one of a kind value.  I'm not particularly concerned about BT era and such if the SQ is well outside anything else that is $30.  Playtime is partly related to the BT era also....sorta goes with the territory.  Didn't suspect them to be anything special really, but if they are always $50-90 or so, wouldn't get much play here even if they sounded good.


----------



## Rob E.

jasaero said:


> Haha...yeah...I meant to ask if they were a one of a kind value.  I'm not particularly concerned about BT era and such if the SQ is well outside anything else that is $30.  Playtime is partly related to the BT era also....sorta goes with the territory.  Didn't suspect them to be anything special really, but if they are always $50-90 or so, wouldn't get much play here even if they sounded good.



Understood. SQ to me is #1 as well, but BT 5.0 (faster transfer speeds, better connectivity, greater range, less dropouts), is a significant improvement. Your call. Plenty of good sound available on the cheap with BT 5.0, if value is a prime consideration.


----------



## hifi80sman

jasaero said:


> Who all has tried these?  Does $30 make them a unique value?
> 
> https://bgr.com/2019/12/30/amazon-price-mistake-airpods-rivals-from-anker/


There are 2 versions of the Zolo; standard and "upgraded" (actually, there are 3 if you count the Zolo Liberty+).

The "upgraded" version has BT 5.0 and a better battery (both case and buds), so you'll have to look closely as to which one you're getting.  I've had all the versions at one time or another and they do sound good and the fit was quite isolating, however, the buttons are situated on the face of the buds, so I found that I had to grip them in such a way when changing tracks, that I would consistently break the seal and have to re-seat.  Decent for $30-$40, but I wouldn't spend more than that.


----------



## jant71

So, Nuarl N6's are back in stock on Amazon as promised. Who bought? See 1 N6 silver gray is left and 2 of each color N6 Pro.


----------



## tma6

jant71 said:


> So, Nuarl N6's are back in stock on Amazon as promised. Who bought? See 1 N6 silver gray is left and 2 of each color N6 Pro.



I bought both lol. Should be here by either this or next week. Will do a full review of both after about a week of listening


----------



## Spamateur

jant71 said:


> So, Nuarl N6's are back in stock on Amazon as promised. Who bought? See 1 N6 silver gray is left and 2 of each color N6 Pro.



I bought the N6 Pro, which is waiting for me at home when I can escape the office.


----------



## hifi80sman

jant71 said:


> So, Nuarl N6's are back in stock on Amazon as promised. Who bought? See 1 N6 silver gray is left and 2 of each color N6 Pro.


Because I'm lazy, what were the major differences between the N6 and N6 Pro?


----------



## jant71 (Dec 30, 2019)

hifi80sman said:


> Because I'm lazy, what were the major differences between the N6 and N6 Pro?



Basically drivers, tips, and color choice.  N6 no Spin-fits and Titanium coated drivers with a more V/consumer sound. N6 Pro with CNT coatings and a more neutral sound than the N6 and Spin-fit tips. Oh and the currently $32 price difference.

Tips are not an issue for me as Spin-fits might not make my top 5 tips. Only issue really is the SQ and sound signature. They did answer the question somewhat...





I am betting on the N6 since they love to spout natural and neutral so thinking the N6 will be fun but not overdone.


----------



## hifi80sman

jant71 said:


> Basically drivers, tips, and color choice.  N6 no Spin-fits and Titanium coated drivers with a more V/consumer sound. N6 Pro with CNT coatings and a more neutral sound than the N6 and Spin-fit tips. Oh and the currently $32 price difference.
> 
> Tips are not an issue for me as Spin-fits might not make my top 5 tips. Only issue really is the SQ and sound signature. They did answer the question somewhat...
> 
> ...


Thanks!  Sounds like I'm more an N6 guy than N6 Pro.  Looking forward to some impressions!


----------



## assassin10000 (Dec 30, 2019)

.


----------



## bronco1015

jant71 said:


> So, Nuarl N6's are back in stock on Amazon as promised. Who bought? See 1 N6 silver gray is left and 2 of each color N6 Pro.


ordered the pro last Monday, they're scheduled to arrive next week. looking forward to them.


----------



## bronco1015

Because i don't have enough TWEs apparently, i just picked up the Fiil T1X. With a $10 off coupon and $25 gift card, i got it for $14.99
it just hit me that with the N6 pro and now the Fiil, i'll have mor TWEs than fullsize headphones. Never thought that would happen in my life.


----------



## clerkpalmer

bronco1015 said:


> Because i don't have enough TWEs apparently, i just picked up the Fiil T1X. With a $10 off coupon and $25 gift card, i got it for $14.99
> it just hit me that with the N6 pro and now the Fiil, i'll have mor TWEs than fullsize headphones. Never thought that would happen in my life.


Step 1 - admitting you have a problem. 
Step 2 - ignoring it.


----------



## Spamateur (Dec 30, 2019)

Got the N6 Pro in today and took a quick listen.

These are really mid-forward and a bit strident. They might verge on being bright. The overall technicalities (detail, timbre, etc.) are quite good but the sound signature is definitely a flat frequency response. It has very much the same presentation as the NT01AX (big soundstage and impressive imaging) but without any of the warmth and organic qualities of that older model.

The build quality of the case is much improved over the NT01AX with a nice soft touch rubberized plastic coating. The cutouts for the earpieces also fit better, and the charging ports are magnetized finally. The earpieces themselves are of slightly better build quality than the NT01AX.

I'm going to return these and might try the N6.


----------



## FYLegend

Has anyone been able to get a replacement from Tronsmart? I contacted them about my imbalance issue but they seem to prefer a refund/return rather than a replacement...


----------



## SilverEars

Caipirina said:


> This is how I felt about getting the Powerbeats Pro!
> 
> And now I am very glad I got them. I put them through the paces today on a 26mile (42k) run and they still had 56% battery left, enough for another marathon  Sound and fit are great, I have never been a big fan of using Siri, but today that worked actually really smoothly and was very useful (change volume, new playlist)
> What surprised me most is that there is NO runner's thud! I thought the fit is similar to the APP, while in-ear, no full insertion. But I get that thud with the APP, not with the PBP. Also, no pain from that ear hook after 4h.
> ...


What is this runner's thud?  I looked it up, and it's says foot sound resulting from foot impact to the ground.  Why would thud be dependent on an earphone?


----------



## georgelai57

Happy New Decade 202X to all. May 2020 be the year wired IEMs be like landlines


----------



## Caipirina

SilverEars said:


> What is this runner's thud?  I looked it up, and it's says foot sound resulting from foot impact to the ground.  Why would thud be dependent on an earphone?


The more the earphone seals (and has no kind of venting, which I suspect the PBP might have) the more you hear that thud inside your head, which can be rather annoying. Semi open earphones like the original AirPods or the often lauded X12 don’t have the dreaded thud thanks to their open architecture. 
Hope this answers your question. I think earphone reviewers are not super aware of this yet, they prefer focusing on call quality, video lag and in general reading the stars off the box


----------



## Caipirina

SoundChoice said:


> With the understanding that there is no one thing upon which a group of audiophiles can agree, is the general consensus that the APPs are one of the best out there right now, with the Liberty 2 Pros and Sony Xm3s a close 2nd? Is there a cluster of 5-7 TWS in the $50-195 range that most can agree are top tier?


It appears that the general sentiment is that the APP are, as a complete package (ease of use, reliable, pocketable, fit, connection) are the top for iPhone users. There are shortcomings: battery life could be better and SQ can best be described as ‘fiercely OK’, like a main stream Volkswagen sound that pleases the masses and offends very few. For me personally a (the?) highlight of 2019.


----------



## Caipirina

georgelai57 said:


> Happy New Decade 202X to all. May 2020 be the year wired IEMs be like landlines


I predict by the end of 2020 I will have a good handful of ANC buds (Bose? Where are you?) and as soon I see an APP clone at 20$ I will jump on that, just for the heck of it 
End of the year we will get APP2 with better battery life, and maybe space gray / rose gold 
I have spoken


----------



## webvan

Caipirina said:


> The more the earphone seals (and has no kind of venting, which I suspect the PBP might have) the more you hear that thud inside your head, which can be rather annoying. Semi open earphones like the original AirPods or the often lauded X12 don’t have the dreaded thud thanks to their open architecture.
> Hope this answers your question. I think earphone reviewers are not super aware of this yet, they prefer focusing on call quality, video lag and in general reading the stars off the box



Yeah and some people claim they've never noticed the dreaded "runner's thud" while running with IEMs...makes you wonder what kind of music they listen or how discerning their ear is ! Walking (or chewing) is generally enough for me to be annoyed by it.

I haven't tried the PBPs but the APPs were trumpeted as having "vents" for "pressure equalization" (or whatever marketing term they threw in) but frankly the "thud" was still there when I ran with them. I didn't find running with them very enjoyable anyway courtesy of the form factor. It's hard not to come back to the X12s that are really perfect, except perhaps for running in noisy environments (like on a treadmill in a gym because noisy environments outdoors will generally require you to pay attention to what's going on in terms of traffic) but I can't really see how this can be fixed.


----------



## Caipirina

webvan said:


> Yeah and some people claim they've never noticed the dreaded "runner's thud" while running with IEMs...makes you wonder what kind of music they listen or how discerning their ear is ! Walking (or chewing) is generally enough for me to be annoyed by it.
> 
> I haven't tried the PBPs but the APPs were trumpeted as having "vents" for "pressure equalization" (or whatever marketing term they threw in) but frankly the "thud" was still there when I ran with them. I didn't find running with them very enjoyable anyway courtesy of the form factor. It's hard not to come back to the X12s that are really perfect, except perhaps for running in noisy environments (like on a treadmill in a gym because noisy environments outdoors will generally require you to pay attention to what's going on in terms of traffic) but I can't really see how this can be fixed.



I think I was not that annoyed by the thud until you kept bringing it up  from then on I could not unhear it


----------



## SilverEars (Dec 31, 2019)

Caipirina said:


> The more the earphone seals (and has no kind of venting, which I suspect the PBP might have) the more you hear that thud inside your head, which can be rather annoying. Semi open earphones like the original AirPods or the often lauded X12 don’t have the dreaded thud thanks to their open architecture.
> Hope this answers your question. I think earphone reviewers are not super aware of this yet, they prefer focusing on call quality, video lag and in general reading the stars off the box


Now that you mention it, I did hear plenty of thud through it, and had no idea it depended on the way the iem is configured. For me it's significant as I do land fairly hard during runs. I got a feeling there's not much to reduce for my case.  I think I just need to learn to run with less impact, which is crucial for long runs.

That's interesting you say for those that are vented.  APP is not fully closed.  There's opening to equalize pressure.  I wonder what is the best iem for thud reduction, as I'm eager to try to see if it makes a difference for me.

Speaking of pressure, I notice reduction in pressure with APP from before.  I think it's due to an update.  I don't feel any pressure when ANC kicks in now.


----------



## SoundChoice

Caipirina said:


> It appears that the general sentiment is that the APP are, as a complete package (ease of use, reliable, pocketable, fit, connection) are the top for iPhone users. There are shortcomings: battery life could be better and SQ can best be described as ‘fiercely OK’, like a main stream Volkswagen sound that pleases the masses and offends very few. For me personally a (the?) highlight of 2019.



Thank you! It’s interesting that in wired IEMs there’s consensus on the ZSX/V90/Bl03 tier, T800/S8/A8 tier, but in TWS no general agreement for $49-199 what is good beside APP. Thanks again


----------



## Caipirina

SilverEars said:


> Now that you mention it, I did hear plenty of thud through it, and had no idea it depended on the way the iem is configured. For me it's significant as I do land fairly hard during runs. I got a feeling there's not much to reduce for my case.  I think I just need to learn to run with less impact, which is crucial for long runs.
> 
> That's interesting you say for those that are vented.  APP is not fully closed.  There's opening to equalize pressure.  I wonder what is the best iem for thud reduction, as I'm eager to try to see if it makes a difference for me.
> 
> Speaking of pressure, I notice reduction in pressure with APP from before.  I think it's due to an update.  I don't feel any pressure when ANC kicks in now.



If you can, try the Sabbat x12 or any other semi open. I find that by adding a classic earbud foam they stay in a bit more secure. I have great open sound / soundstage and no thud with them. Plus a bit more awareness of my surroundings as they have terrible passive noise isolation. 
As for how your foot lands... took me a while and several thousand km to finally land in a way that my actual foot strike is close to inaudible to others. I am still far from perfect, but it feels natural, which I find most important.


----------



## Caipirina

SoundChoice said:


> Thank you! It’s interesting that in wired IEMs there’s consensus on the ZSX/V90/Bl03 tier, T800/S8/A8 tier, but in TWS no general agreement for $49-199 what is good beside APP. Thanks again


I would not really count the APP in the 50-200$ segment.
I think with TWS it is very different as they come with some many extra bells / whistles (unlike IEMs, which ‘just’ play music). I am talking about waterproof, button vs touch, anc, battery times, volume control, BT version & protocols .... hence there are so many different opinions depending on what ppl find inportant (I.e. I could give a rats buttom about AptX or usb-c)


----------



## chinmie

SoundChoice said:


> Thank you! It’s interesting that in wired IEMs there’s consensus on the ZSX/V90/Bl03 tier, T800/S8/A8 tier, but in TWS no general agreement for $49-199 what is good beside APP. Thanks again



for sound, there are some general consensus of names that would come up in respective price brackets like the T1C, SSK/anbes 359, Mpow M5, etc.

might be the problem with TWS are that the deciding factors are not only SQ, but also fit, features, size, call quality, and several others..

so there's a wider range of selections and recommendations compared to standard wired IEMs


----------



## chinmie

Caipirina said:


> I think I was not that annoyed by the thud until you kept bringing it up  from then on I could not unhear it



feom my experience with wired IEMs, over ear cables would greatly reduce foot thumping.. maybe using those rubber lanyard for airpods and run them over ears could help? this is a theory though, haven't really tested it myself because i currently don't have airpods/similar design TWS


----------



## webvan

Not following ? With wired IEMs we had the cable rustling and the thud problems, with sealing TWEs we're left with the thud problem


----------



## Samplingentropy

The A-holes from Swedish post office won't let me pick up my new spunky beats.
Custom fee gone =[
Hopefully I'll get a refund from Tronsmart store anyway.
Sad and mad begging of 2020 =[
Anyone here has a set of used tws's  they'd sell me for cheap and ship with DHL or anything but Swedish post?


----------



## Spamateur

I ordered the Mavin Air-XR Qi. I still love the sound of Air-X (I actually prefer it to pretty much anything else I've heard), so I have high hopes for these. The few reviews I've seen out of Japan have been positive according to Google Translate.


----------



## mikp

Spamateur said:


> I ordered the Mavin Air-XR Qi. I still love the sound of Air-X (I actually prefer it to pretty much anything else I've heard), so I have high hopes for these. The few reviews I've seen out of Japan have been positive according to Google Translate.



I contacted them, and they are working on a anc version. but no other news.

to me the air x is very good, and i have tested some other tws out there. Sad to say over 1 year after getting the air-x ive not found something that can combine my air-x and 65t combo I use weekly. 65t for hiking (multipoint,ambient) and air-x for everything else.


----------



## SilverEars (Dec 31, 2019)

chinmie said:


> feom my experience with wired IEMs, over ear cables would greatly reduce foot thumping.. maybe using those rubber lanyard for airpods and run them over ears could help? this is a theory though, haven't really tested it myself because i currently don't have airpods/similar design TWS


Thud is when your foot strikes the ground hard enough.  The movement of iem on ear is a different matter which I do not experience with APP.  The Thud is conduction of vibration though the body like how microphonics work.

Thud has to do with isolation, but I'm not understanding how you get more thud through isolation.  The way I was thinking was, when you open up the earphone to the surroundings, you hear high level of ambient noise that thud isn't the sound most noticed anymore.  I really don't see how the higher isolation is worse in terms of total noise level. But, when you are running out doors, for safety reasons, you need to hear your surroundings for awareness.


----------



## webvan

I've written about it many times before :
- an IEM seals the ear canal
- when the foot hits the ground the air trapped in the air canal has nowhere to go
-> the air gets compressed so it creates a pressure against the eardrum, hence the "thud" that some people are strangely oblivious too.


----------



## SilverEars (Dec 31, 2019)

webvan said:


> I've written about it many times before :
> - an IEM seals the ear canal
> - when the foot hits the ground the air trapped in the air canal has nowhere to go
> -> the air gets compressed so it creates a pressure against the eardrum, hence the "thud" that some people are strangely oblivious too.


That's not making sense.  How does the foot striking the ground changing the air inside the the ear canals?  You make it sound like air is some bouncing balls.

I have an electric toothbrush, and I have brushed my teeth with APP on, and the vibrations picked up by the ear's sensing hairs are more pronounced due to the isolation, and this can be said the same for other isolated iems as well.  When you strike the ground with your foot, it's similar when you are sealed off.


----------



## Spamateur

mikp said:


> I contacted them, and they are working on a anc version. but no other news.
> 
> to me the air x is very good, and i have tested some other tws out there. Sad to say over 1 year after getting the air-x ive not found something that can combine my air-x and 65t combo I use weekly. 65t for hiking (multipoint,ambient) and air-x for everything else.



Ditto. The sound just seems really well-balanced, and the clarity and detail retrieval is the best I've experienced among TWS so far. The L2P is a not bad, but it verges on being too bassy and is wooly sometimes. There's something about the relaxing and detailed sound of the Mavin that keeps me coming back.


----------



## chinmie

SilverEars said:


> That's not making sense.  How does the foot striking the ground changing the air inside the the ear canals?  You make it sound like air is some bouncing balls.
> 
> I have an electric toothbrush, and I have brushed my teeth with APP on, and the vibrations picked up by the ear's sensing hairs are more pronounced due to the isolation, and this can be said the same for other isolated iems as well.  When you strike the ground with your foot, it's similar when you are sealed off.



think of it like tapping a balloon while laying your ear on the balloon. the air inside would carry the sound to the ears. 
with IEMs, try tapping the body of the IEM with our finger. when the seal is good, usually it would have a lower frequency sounding thump. with open vented IEMs or earbuds, usually the sound of the tap would be higher frequency and closer to a click than a thud.


----------



## turbobb

These seem to be a slightly cheaper version of Bomaker's SiFi (would only be $26.09 USD w/the current 10% off coupon):
https://www.amazon.com/Wireless-RXAMYDE-Bluetooth-Waterproof-Headphones/dp/B07W4KGCGL

Has anyone here tried them?


----------



## hifi80sman

turbobb said:


> These seem to be a slightly cheaper version of Bomaker's SiFi (would only be $26.09 USD w/the current 10% off coupon):
> https://www.amazon.com/Wireless-RXAMYDE-Bluetooth-Waterproof-Headphones/dp/B07W4KGCGL
> 
> Has anyone here tried them?


No, but it looks like the same thing, they just changed the "company" from BOMAKER to RXAMYDE.  Love RXAMYDE, though.  They've been in business since...August 7, 2019.


----------



## bronco1015

Spamateur said:


> Got the N6 Pro in today and took a quick listen.
> 
> These are really mid-forward and a bit strident. They might verge on being bright. The overall technicalities (detail, timbre, etc.) are quite good but the sound signature is definitely a flat frequency response. It has very much the same presentation as the NT01AX (big soundstage and impressive imaging) but without any of the warmth and organic qualities of that older model.
> 
> ...


from your experience and whatever you might remember from your time with the Momentum, how would you compare the 2?


----------



## Spamateur

bronco1015 said:


> from your experience and whatever you might remember from your time with the Momentum, how would you compare the 2?



The MTW are a lot cleaner with less distortion. I found them a bit steely up top however, but I think the MTW have better clarity.


----------



## bronco1015

Spamateur said:


> The MTW are a lot cleaner with less distortion. I found them a bit steely up top however, but I think the MTW have better clarity.


good to know. i'll still give the Pro a shot, but i returned the Sony WF1000Xm3 because of how distorted they sounded with EQ all over the place. love the clarity of the MTW.


----------



## FYLegend

Aufo M1. Has a very similar design to Anbes 359/SSK BT03 but different eartips. Has transparency/ambient sound mode! Case supports Type C and Qi charging. They were advertising it on Facebook last week as being sold on Amazon.ca.


I hope 2020 we can say goodbye to stems and earhooks!

(inb4 "but call quality and connection!")


----------



## Spamateur

bronco1015 said:


> good to know. i'll still give the Pro a shot, but i returned the Sony WF1000Xm3 because of how distorted they sounded with EQ all over the place. love the clarity of the MTW.



Let us know your thoughts if you grab a pair. One caveat: if you like the bass of the MTW and L2P you'll probably find the N6 Pro to be bass light (it's VERY mid-focused). It sounds like the regular N6 is the bassier/warmer of the two.


----------



## d3myz

hifi80sman said:


> Speaking of deals, while off-topic, I figure we all dabble in over-ears, so I'll share:
> 
> B&H Photo Video has the Sony MDR-Z7M2 for a maddening price of $298.  Yeah, I ordered.


Wow, thats' a crazy good deal. Still, these better, cook, clean, do laundry. What makes these so expensive?


----------



## d3myz

hifi80sman said:


> Just apply for the card, buy it, then pay off the card and close it.  That's what I did.  When you have issues, you find a way to feed the beast.


I did a similar thing to pay for my last Iphones. Got 2 Capital One Savor cards, Put all my bills on them for a couple months and both iphones. Got $300 cash on each card. Closed them and basically got $600 free.


----------



## d3myz

Quicky32 said:


> Got the Spinfit CP360 in the mail today and they do not fit on the T1X...my foam tips did not fit either.


Strange, my 360 fit just fine. They are nice and snug.


----------



## d3myz

albau said:


> Agree. Don't think L2P are in the same league as MTW, much less MW07.


That's just crazy talk, gentlemen. I guess this is the unpopular opinion, but I think the L2pro sounds better than the MW07 on a lot of levels. I've had two pair of MW07's now and returned both of them. I have 3 pair of L2pros and the 3rd version, 2nd revision is my favorite. Their detail and Bass is far superior to the MW07 in every way. I think the MW07's mids are a bit fuller, but with the new revision, i'd say it's close. I'm using Symbio w/peel tips and it makes a big difference. For me the L2pro fits better, has better isolation, a great app., double the battery life of the MW07, Wireless Charging and a great price @ $85/$100 on sale. The MW07 does have a great mic for calls, one of the best i've used.


----------



## d3myz

voicemaster said:


> T1X with bass EQ is so damn fun. I am actually okay without using EQ, but using the bass preset, the sound is so much fun yet still crystal clear and airy. The bass has much more impact now especially kick drum and floor toms.



Told Ya! They sound awesome with the Bass EQ on!


----------



## d3myz

Sam L said:


> Poked in here to catch up on reading this thread and yours is the first post I see. Your list of inexpensive tws models is identical to mine. But I'm trying to resist picking up some L2pros... Trying.. .


That's cool. Not long after, I got the Sony XM3's, MW07's, Nuarl NT01A's and the Air Pods Pro. I love my L2pros, but most days I use the APP's and the Sony's. I love ANC, I almost can't live without it now.


----------



## cwill

d3myz said:


> Told Ya! They sound awesome with the Bass EQ on!


Now if I could just get the stupid app to connect to mine.


----------



## d3myz

bronco1015 said:


> Can you get hold of the Bomaker SiFi? They do charge via Micro USB, but have a small case, IPX 7,  and honestly sound Efing amazing! They have volume control, track navigation, access to your assistent, are very small and comfortable to wear, can't find my manual or the specs online from bomakers site, for battery life anyway, other than a general estimate of 25-30 hours according to the product info section of amazon US. Haven't tested this yet, but from those specs i'd say 6 hours of use from them is likely possible. Most i've worn them for was 2 hours tonight and 2.5 hours a couple days ago, and they were almost at 90% the other day, forgot to check today before i plugged them back in. These are a great all arounder but if i point one thing out about the sound sig, it's that theres some sloppy sub bass at times, but doesn't drown anything out but point it out because that's the biggest flaw i've noticed. generally, as much as a TWS can have a soundstage of any kind, and a couple manage to, these do pretty well in that regard as well. I had a pair of QCY T1C, and if they hadn't been stolen i'd still have them. But the Bomakers have fuller mids, and across the board; are smoother and mor controled by a sizeable amount. the MSRP is $50. one could do far worse for $50, but on Amazon U.S. theres a $15 off coupon, and Bomaker is offering at minimum on their site 10% off. Yes there are better TWEs out there, but most of them, cost 2, 3 times or mor than these. At $35, they are a noBrainer if any of the use cases i mentioned meet what you're looking for. oh a couple other important things, they support APTX,  AAC and can be paired and used in mono..


You tried the FIIL T1x, yet? I feel like they are a better version of the Sifi.


----------



## d3myz

cwill said:


> Now if I could just get the stupid app to connect to mine.


I missed what you have tried. have you factory reset them? deleted them from your BT on your phone etc. then re-tried?


----------



## cwill

d3myz said:


> I missed what you have tried. have you factory reset them? deleted them from your BT on your phone etc. then re-tried?


Yes, I've tried everything.


----------



## d3myz

voicemaster said:


> The bass will tighten up as you continue using it.


Mine were the opposite. The bass got much better and fuller after my burn in.


----------



## d3myz

Caipirina said:


> i agree that the APP are indeed THAT good. This is my first trip I left my Bose QC35 behind, more space in my carry-on (instead i brought the very pocketable QC20, for wired connection). Yes, more battery life would be nice, but that’s pretty much the only downside.


I 3rd this. I use my APPs. every day. Best ANC I have used out of the WF-XM3 and the WH-XM3. Battery life isn't great and I got an apple watch for Christmas and i've had some issues with dictation on my phone, calls and playing media. Apple is going to replace them for me, but other than that, I love them. However, I do not enjoy listening to music on them, only audiobooks.


----------



## d3myz

turbobb said:


> These seem to be a slightly cheaper version of Bomaker's SiFi (would only be $26.09 USD w/the current 10% off coupon):
> https://www.amazon.com/Wireless-RXAMYDE-Bluetooth-Waterproof-Headphones/dp/B07W4KGCGL
> 
> Has anyone here tried them?



If they make you feel like this, they are worth every penny.


----------



## d3myz

I made it! I thought i'd never catch up! My N6 and N6pro wont' be here until the 4th. UGH. Thanks @Spamateur for your impressions on the N6Pros, sounds like they are probably going back. I just returned my NT0A1's. After listening to the T1x, L2pro and XM3's they just sounded to sluggish and muddy to me, they def. don't have the high end those others do, but i'm pretty sad. because I liked everything else about them. I would of kept them had I not ordered the N6s'.


----------



## voicemaster

cwill said:


> Yes, I've tried everything.


Did u try leaving the case open while the buds connecting to the app?


----------



## cwill

voicemaster said:


> Did u try leaving the case open while the buds connecting to the app?


Yes.


----------



## voicemaster

cwill said:


> Yes.


Do u have any friends/family that can lend you their phone and let you install the app in their phone? If you can connect with their phone, the problem maybe lies on your pixel 3a.


----------



## cwill

voicemaster said:


> Do u have any friends/family that can lend you their phone and let you install the app in their phone? If you can connect with their phone, the problem maybe lies on your pixel 3a.


I already tried on my son's Android phone. Same thing. The app just will not recognize them.


----------



## voicemaster

cwill said:


> I already tried on my son's Android phone. Same thing. The app just will not recognize them.


U sure u have t1x not t1?
If yes then maybe yours is faulty.


----------



## cwill

voicemaster said:


> U sure u have t1x not t1?
> If yes then maybe yours is faulty.


Bottom of my case says T1 X. Model F022


----------



## voicemaster

cwill said:


> Bottom of my case says T1 X. Model F022


Mine too


----------



## bronco1015

Spamateur said:


> Let us know your thoughts if you grab a pair. One caveat: if you like the bass of the MTW and L2P you'll probably find the N6 Pro to be bass light (it's VERY mid-focused). It sounds like the regular N6 is the bassier/warmer of the two.


Thanks for the headsup. I enjoy both the L2P and MTW, but in both cases i eqed the bass pretty significantly from their respective defaults. Mor so with the momentum, because i found a sweet spot that gives a great balance for what i wanted. Did that in part because of what i heard separate from the bass when i first tried the MTW in default setting.
The N6 Pro arrive on Tuesday, so i'll definitely post initial and longterm thoughts for sure. Have you decided whether or not your going to get the N6?


----------



## hifi80sman

d3myz said:


> Wow, thats' a crazy good deal. Still, these better, cook, clean, do laundry. What makes these so expensive?


They have them at Best Buy (Magnolia) for testing and they sounded magnificent.  The 70mm drivers really enveloped my entire ear and everything just sounded bigger.  I ordered them when they were $600 off at $298.  I went to Magnolia to see if they could match the price, but they said their unit cost was $500 and they couldn’t do it.  The guy at Magnolia said he was going to order a pair.


----------



## SoundChoice

d3myz said:


> That's cool. Not long after, I got the Sony XM3's, MW07's, Nuarl NT01A's and the Air Pods Pro. I love my L2pros, but most days I use the APP's and the Sony's. I love ANC, I almost can't live without it now.



How do the APP compare to the Sonys?


----------



## DynamicEars

Thank you all suggestions from you all, unfortunately I dont have easy access to get the Bomaker Sifi or Fiil T1X and stick on my budget limit $30 so in the end i bought this QCY T5..
Anddd in the bought the new Haylou GT1 Plus out of curiosity but they are still on the way. The GT1 Plus have 7.2mm biocellulose driver and qualcomm chipset.

Ok so now on QCY T5, they have nice signature, more subbass than mid bass. Bass decay isnt so fast which i expected, ok mids, clarity is standard but for their price considered very good, boosted upper mids on 3khz but not as harsh as previous KZs, but can be a bit aggressive and shouty on high volume level. Highs have sparkles, sibilance free highs. Details and soundstage are aspects that amazed me for a very cheap TWS with decent details. Overall a good buy without fear of lost or drop.
Not a fan of the shape and the fit also not easy plug for me, with azla sedna tips they are the best to my ears but the case won't allowed them to snug in. I use the tfz wide bore eartips in the end.

To my surprise crinacle have measured this also and he gave C+ rank and say that they are a decent set.
Here the measurement from him, all credit goes to him
 


I have the QCY T1c too, compared to them the T5 have more clean bass, the T1c suffer from mid bass bleed, T1c sounded warmer overall and have more body weight, T5 sounded thinner on mids especially lower mids. Soundstage is larger on T5 by quite some margin, and more detailed also.

Aside from sound quality, T5 have benefit with gaming mode (3 times tap on right iem) to have better latency while watching movies or playing games (but no 0 latency, thats gimmick) but they are better on delays, almost in sync.

Will share the Haylou GT1 Plus later also when they are arrived.


----------



## Caipirina

Might have done another stupid / spontaneous order, but I had a coupon to burn and this weird form factor had intrigued me for awhile now. Plus I found a seller who offered the white version for cheaper & free shipping 
 
i am pretty certain these are NOT bone conducting, as the description says, but it is yet another semi open design and I am just very curious ...


----------



## RobinFood

Caipirina said:


> Might have done another stupid / spontaneous order, but I had a coupon to burn and this weird form factor had intrigued me for awhile now. Plus I found a seller who offered the white version for cheaper & free shipping
> 
> i am pretty certain these are NOT bone conducting, as the description says, but it is yet another semi open design and I am just very curious ...



They look like some nice sci-fi clip on earrings. Very curious about the sound quality though. What are they called?


----------



## georgelai57

Caipirina said:


> Might have done another stupid / spontaneous order, but I had a coupon to burn and this weird form factor had intrigued me for awhile now. Plus I found a seller who offered the white version for cheaper & free shipping
> 
> i am pretty certain these are NOT bone conducting, as the description says, but it is yet another semi open design and I am just very curious ...


Start the year right


----------



## turbobb

d3myz said:


> If they make you feel like this, they are worth every penny.


LOL! The photo made me chuckle, there has got to be a better way to convey water resistance out of all the stock photos to choose from. 

If these are indeed a clone of the SiFi then they should sound pretty good though.


----------



## clerkpalmer

i am pretty certain these are NOT bone conducting, as the description says, but it is yet another semi open design and I am just very curious ...[/QUOTE]

these things look nsfw....


----------



## Caipirina

RobinFood said:


> They look like some nice sci-fi clip on earrings. Very curious about the sound quality though. What are they called?


S19
You can find them under that on AliExpress or ‘bone conducting’


----------



## Caipirina

clerkpalmer said:


> i am pretty certain these are NOT bone conducting, as the description says, but it is yet another semi open design and I am just very curious ...



these things look nsfw....[/QUOTE]
Ha Hà ha ... now I see it, too


----------



## caprimulgus

Caipirina said:


> these things look nsfw....
> Ha Hà ha ... now I see it, too



Definitely _bone _conducting!


----------



## Rob E.

turbobb said:


> ...If these are indeed a clone of the SiFi then they should sound pretty good though.



From all outward appearances, the hope is they _might be_ except; As advertised, they have 5 hr. playtime per charge, not 6 to 8. No graphene coated driver, No Qualcomm, no AptX, no ACC... I'd guess they might be OK, but they're no Bomaker SiFi.


----------



## Rob E. (Jan 1, 2020)

...my misplaced opinion, better off retracted.


----------



## howdy

Has anyone put Spinfits on Jabra Elite Active 65t before? The site says CP360 which I have and no, they do not fit.  I was thinking that the CP800 would as it says 2mm bore and they seem to be around that size, wish I could find my caliper.


----------



## kl884347 (Jan 1, 2020)

By any chance anyone know how to get in touch with Fiil customer support? I am having trouble finding it (maybe my google skills aren't up to snuff). I somehow missed the fact that one earpiece was not in the case and in my clothes. I ended up finding it next to my car run over. Ugh. Just wondering what the cost of getting a replacement earpiece would be. Probably would just be cheaper to get a new set...
NM. Found it. I was typing it in wrong. Duh. It's the first thing that google finds.


----------



## cwill

kl884347 said:


> By any chance anyone know how to get in touch with Fiil customer support? I am having trouble finding it (maybe my google skills aren't up to snuff). I somehow missed the fact that one earpiece was not in the case and in my clothes. I ended up finding it next to my car run over. Ugh. Just wondering what the cost of getting a replacement earpiece would be. Probably would just be cheaper to get a new set...
> NM. Found it. I was typing it in wrong. Duh. It's the first thing that google finds.


Want mine for $30 shipped?


----------



## kl884347

cwill said:


> Want mine for $30 shipped?


Sent you a PM Thanks!


----------



## Caipirina (Jan 1, 2020)

Rob E. said:


> ...my misplaced opinion, better off retracted.


Well, I still have full text in my notification and I appreciate your input / opinion. This is definitely a more ‘experimental’ purchase. I agree that they don’t look very comfortable to wear.  And they seem to have no IPX rating, so no running with them for me. As for the sound, I am actually looking fwd to that semi open soundstage, but I am not expecting miracles at this price point.  Let’s see


----------



## Sam L

hifi80sman said:


> They have them at Best Buy (Magnolia) for testing and they sounded magnificent.  The 70mm drivers really enveloped my entire ear and everything just sounded bigger.  I ordered them when they were $600 off at $298.  I went to Magnolia to see if they could match the price, but they said their unit cost was $500 and they couldn’t do it.  The guy at Magnolia said he was going to order a pair.



Wait?! How? Is that a mistake? I just went on the link and it looks like the deals gone


----------



## wksoh

Letscom True Wireless Earbuds, Bluetooth 5.0 Headphones, IPX5 Waterproof Workout Sports Earphones for Running, Mini Headphones with HD Stereo Sound, Built-in Mic, Charging Case, 36 Hrs Playtime https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07NPK6GGR/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_i_Y9sdEbM6CW57C

UFO clone going for $20.
Be forewarned this is not the same as SSK BT03


----------



## Rob E.

Caipirina said:


> Well, I still have full text in my notification and I appreciate your input / opinion. This is definitely a more ‘experimental’ purchase. I agree that they don’t look very comfortable to wear.  And they seem to have no IPX rating, so no running with them for me. As for the sound, I am actually looking fwd to that semi open soundstage, but I am not expecting miracles at this price point.  Let’s see



Oh Gee! Well, sometimes, after the fact, it occurs to me that I might be better off keeping my opinions, or insights to myself. Especially when it might be along the lines of busting someone’s bubble. No harm done. I hope they’re not too bad.


----------



## wksoh

https://www.stereo.com.sg/nakamichi-nm-tw211-sports-true-wireless-earbuds.html

Nakamichi TW211... Resembling the mpow m5 and Lypertek Tevi


----------



## Caipirina

Rob E. said:


> Oh Gee! Well, sometimes, after the fact, it occurs to me that I might be better off keeping my opinions, or insights to myself. Especially when it might be along the lines of busting someone’s bubble. No harm done. I hope they’re not too bad.


No harm read into any of it  I know these will not replace my APP nor PBP, duh, but I am really curious about the form factor. 
Initially I wanted to post along the lines ‘who’s willing to take one for the team?’ ... then I realized that should be me


----------



## wksoh

cwill said:


> Want mine for $30 shipped?


How does it sound compared to Mpow M5? I'm thinking of getting T1X or Mpow M7....


----------



## voicemaster

wksoh said:


> How does it sound compared to Mpow M5? I'm thinking of getting T1X or Mpow M7....


For me, no contest. Clarity, separation, case size, easy to take out from case, fast connection and connection range goes to T1X. Now, with the addition of app on both iOS and android, it is even better imho.


----------



## hifi80sman

Sam L said:


> Wait?! How? Is that a mistake? I just went on the link and it looks like the deals gone


Yeah, the deal is gone.  I posted it a while back and they went back up to $598 from $298.  My guess is B&H is doing a bulk order with Sony in general, so the more units they order, the better pricing will be, so it may be beneficial to load the order with a number of low margin sales to gain a better overall deal per unit (of various Sony items).

Or, it was a mistake (which they seem to be honoring).


----------



## Shanling

If you are interested into Shanling MTW100 TWS, we are now rolling out new version, with direct connection for both earphones.

This change affects both BA and DD version.

Price stays the same at 89 / 79 USD.





*How to distinguish V1 from V2?*

Both versions look the same and come in the same packaging, you can only identify them either by checking their user manual or by testing the Surrounding awareness mode.


----------



## FYLegend

Seems like Tronsmart wants me to return-ship via Aliexpress my "defective" unit before offering a possible replacement. I'm not so sure it's worth the hassle and I'm wondering if anyone else has experienced similarly from different manufacturers. Knowing it might take another 3 weeks to ship it back and get a replacement which might have the same issue, it is unassuring compared to other manufacturers who simply send a replacement first or offer a refund.

I've already been bad-lucked 3-4 times with imbalance/poor driver matching in TWS. It is not my hearing because my good headphones and IEMs don't have these issues. Do casual listeners not mind imbalance and think it's a "6D binaural stereo" experience?


----------



## georgelai57

https://www.engadget.com/2020/01/02/klipsch-true-wireless-t5-t10-sport/

The big boys are waking up.


----------



## georgelai57

Shanling said:


> If you are interested into Shanling MTW100 TWS, we are now rolling out new version, with direct connection for both earphones.
> 
> This change affects both BA and DD version.
> 
> ...


For Direct Connection, will this work like TWS+ hence needing an Android phone with a snapdragon chip, or will it work with all phones like the way the Sony WF-1000XM3 does?


----------



## wksoh (Jan 2, 2020)

voicemaster said:


> For me, no contest. Clarity, separation, case size, easy to take out from case, fast connection and connection range goes to T1X. Now, with the addition of app on both iOS and android, it is even better imho.


Thank you for inputs. I think the mpow m5 mids is still a little thin to my ears. I want to tinker with even thicker mids.


----------



## Shanling

georgelai57 said:


> For Direct Connection, will this work like TWS+ hence needing an Android phone with a snapdragon chip, or will it work with all phones like the way the Sony WF-1000XM3 does?



As we are not using Qualcomm chip, there should be no such limitation.


----------



## georgelai57

Shanling said:


> As we are not using Qualcomm chip, there should be no such limitation.


Thanks. I shall watch out for it in the shops.


----------



## mattedialdoc

did you add volume control??




Shanling said:


> If you are interested into Shanling MTW100 TWS, we are now rolling out new version, with direct connection for both earphones.
> 
> This change affects both BA and DD version.
> 
> ...


----------



## Kvarkmeister

For anyone thinking about buying the FIIL T1 X on Gearbest, be warned that the spoken voice language (that tells you the status of the earphones: connecting, battery low, etc.) of the earphones is Chinese, not English (as it ships from China). It doesn't bother me too much, but once I was having trouble increasing volume and the voice told me something I couldn't interpret. I was able to resolve the problem, though (by changing device output audio volume). So it's not very helpful if you can't understand it.

Also, I have one question: the case of my FIIL T1 X's has the lid a little loose. When I vertically push the lid, it moves about 0.5 mm away from the base. Do you guys have this? I may have stressed the lid a bit too much yesterday, so it's probably my fault.

Also, another thing was that I could not connect the app to the earphones;the  list was just empty. What worked for me was to download a previous version (15.12.2019; version 3.3.1) that identified my earphones fine.

Other than that, excellent earphones, getting pretty addicted to them, especially as a first pair of TWS.


----------



## SoundChoice

Kvarkmeister said:


> For anyone thinking about buying the FIIL T1 X on Gearbest, be warned that the spoken voice language (that tells you the status of the earphones: connecting, battery low, etc.) of the earphones is Chinese, not English (as it ships from China). It doesn't bother me too much, but once I was having trouble increasing volume and the voice told me something I couldn't interpret. I was able to resolve the problem, though (by changing device output audio volume). So it's not very helpful if you can't understand it.
> 
> Also, I have one question: the case of my FIIL T1 X's has the lid a little loose. When I vertically push the lid, it moves about 0.5 mm away from the base. Do you guys have this? I may have stressed the lid a bit too much yesterday, so it's probably my fault.
> 
> ...



The lid thing in my experience can be affected by the tips. The stock tips are shorter, allowing the lid to close easily. Longer tips used to get a better fit in the ear may no longer fit in the case.


----------



## clerkpalmer

I was intrigued by the Libratone now that AAC is supported.  A quick check, however, and they want $249 now for the black version compared to $199 for the white.  A week ago they were both $189.  Anyone know of an alternative seller?  $249 is just plain stupid.


----------



## Kvarkmeister

SoundChoice said:


> The lid thing in my experience can be affected by the tips. The stock tips are shorter, allowing the lid to close easily. Longer tips used to get a better fit in the ear may no longer fit in the case.


Thanks for the input! However, the problem in my case is that the lid tends to move horizontally (I said 'vertically' in my post, excuse my dumb mistake, haha). The lid closes fine, *snap*, but it can move a bit around when it's shut (again, horizontally hehe).


----------



## webvan

howdy said:


> Has anyone put Spinfits on Jabra Elite Active 65t before? The site says CP360 which I have and no, they do not fit.  I was thinking that the CP800 would as it says 2mm bore and they seem to be around that size, wish I could find my caliper.



Yes I've tried too and the tips come off in the ear when the earbuds are removed. I took it both my 65Ts and caliper and found a size of 4.70mm which surprised me a bit.


----------



## bronco1015

Shanling said:


> If you are interested into Shanling MTW100 TWS, we are now rolling out new version, with direct connection for both earphones.
> 
> This change affects both BA and DD version.
> 
> ...


 longshot but have to ask, is there a firmware update that would make this an option with prev version?


----------



## bronco1015 (Jan 2, 2020)

georgelai57 said:


> https://www.engadget.com/2020/01/02/klipsch-true-wireless-t5-t10-sport/
> 
> The big boys are waking up.


Mor like toking up. $649 for the T10? That is insaine. So many snarky thoughts come to mind. hopefully no one actually pays that much for them. imo, with all the great options available for $149 and under, even charging $300 is a lot for any manufacturer to ask. No twe should cost mor than $300 imo, and at minimum; it better have a sound to justify that price.


----------



## CocaCola15 (Jan 2, 2020)

d3myz said:


> Wow, thats' a crazy good deal. Still, these better, cook, clean, do laundry. What makes these so expensive?


Oops, this is already reported earlier. Sony MDR-Z7M2 now $598 at B&H. Annoyed I didn't order a pair at $298. Doh!


----------



## voicemaster

CocaCola15 said:


> Oops, this is already reported earlier. Sony MDR-Z7M2 now $598 at B&H. Annoyed I didn't order a pair at $298. Doh!


Damn that's a steal at that price. I have the original Z7 and love it.


----------



## clerkpalmer

bronco1015 said:


> Mor like toking up. $649 for the T10?
> 
> $649 for the T10? That is insaine. So many snarky thoughts come to mind. hopefully no one actually pays that much for them. imo, with all the great options available for $149 and under, even charging $300 is a lot for any manufacturer to ask. No twe should cost mor than $300 imo, and at minimum; it better have a sound to justify that price.


I would pay that much for spectacular sound but I don't trust Klipsch to be the one to deliver.  These products look interesting but the T5 release was a mess.  I wouldn't hold my breath on any of these products.  I guess they deserve some credit for trying the high end market.  Hopefully others (Audeze?) will do the same.


----------



## C_Lindbergh

Interesting that the new Klipsch will feature some sort of AI... when they can't even sort out their own app for the T5. 

But if they succeed I wont complain, hopefully we'll have more info soon .,


----------



## hifi80sman

bronco1015 said:


> Mor like toking up. $649 for the T10? That is insaine. So many snarky thoughts come to mind. hopefully no one actually pays that much for them. imo, with all the great options available for $149 and under, even charging $300 is a lot for any manufacturer to ask. No twe should cost mor than $300 imo, and at minimum; it better have a sound to justify that price.


The T5 II and the T5 Sport sound interesting for around a $200 price point (they'll go on sale, so I'll probably wait for that), but no damn way I'm paying $649 for a pair of TWS with ANC.  AI?  Sounds more gimmick than reality.  I could get some seriously legit cans for that.  If I'm looking for ANC and TWS, the APP sound good enough and are comfortable for mobile purposes.  I like the XM3 as well, not to mention the upcoming Sennheiser MTW 2, which looks to have ANC.


----------



## hifi80sman

clerkpalmer said:


> I was intrigued by the Libratone now that AAC is supported.  A quick check, however, and they want $249 now for the black version compared to $199 for the white.  A week ago they were both $189.  Anyone know of an alternative seller?  $249 is just plain stupid.


Back ordered on Amazon for $210.  They'll probably be available before next month (those dates always change).  You could always order and see if the price changes while they are on back order, cancel, then reorder.


----------



## howdy

hifi80sman said:


> Yeah, the deal is gone.  I posted it a while back and they went back up to $598 from $298.  My guess is B&H is doing a bulk order with Sony in general, so the more units they order, the better pricing will be, so it may be beneficial to load the order with a number of low margin sales to gain a better overall deal per unit (of various Sony items).
> 
> Or, it was a mistake (which they seem to be honoring).


About 8 years ago I was interested in the ATH-M50 and they where at the time $110.00. So one day I was looking them again on Amazon and saw that they where $11 bucks and I was like holy Sh$t and bought them as I had nothing to lose, and they did infact honor it and I still have them today.


----------



## hifi80sman

howdy said:


> About 8 years ago I was interested in the ATH-M50 and they where at the time $110.00. So one day I was looking them again on Amazon and saw that they where $11 bucks and I was like holy Sh$t and bought them as I had nothing to lose, and they did infact honor it and I still have them today.


Numbers matter.


----------



## tma6

Just got the n6 pros in today! Still waiting on the n6, but gonna have a listen and give some first impressions shortly


----------



## david8613

Anyone try these? 

Wireless Earbuds,Bluetooth Earbuds 5.0 in-Ear Stereo Headphones with 2200mAh Slide Aluminum Charging Case,Bluetooth Earbuds IPX7 Waterproof,Free to Switch Single/Twin Mode with 100Hours Playtime Utaxo https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07VZM7RN7/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_i_LWNdEbFV7WGR1


----------



## clerkpalmer

hifi80sman said:


> Back ordered on Amazon for $210.  They'll probably be available before next month (those dates always change).  You could always order and see if the price changes while they are on back order, cancel, then reorder.


Hmm, I found them on amazon as available now for $249 from Libratone.  The white are $189 after coupon.  Weird.  How are the Sony cans treating you?


----------



## gorman

DigDub said:


> Yes they need to be charged independently, Fiio provides a USB-A to 2 micro USB cable.


How's volume controlled with UTWS1?


----------



## hifi80sman

clerkpalmer said:


> Hmm, I found them on amazon as available now for $249 from Libratone.  The white are $189 after coupon.  Weird.  How are the Sony cans treating you?


Sound-wise, I personally like the aggressive bass-forward signature of the XM3 and the ability to EQ if my mood changes.  The common criticism is they are dark, but I wouldn't classify them as dark at all.  Out of the box, they are warm, smooth, and inoffensive with a nudge in the lows.  I understand if someone is coming from a bright signature, sure, these will sound "dark", but that's a bridge too far, way too far, for me.  I can also EQ them to brighter than is comfortable for me, while the drivers are quire responsive to EQ (via the app) with no perceptible distortion or annoying physical driver flex.

Fit, well, that's another issue.  They are OK with some shorter Sony eartips for me, but they would benefit from some ear hooks to hold them in place.  I find them perfectly fine for the office, but I find they can slip enough in the gym to where I have to adjust more than I'd like.

The APP are the most well-rounded, best fitting TWS out there that have nice ANC and great call quality.  Sound is more than passable and it's grown on me.  I still prefer the XM3 in pure SQ, especially since you can EQ, but day-to-day use, the APP are hard to beat.

And if you were talking about the Sony MDR-Z7M2, they are still on back order, but I called B&H today and they expect it to ship/receive stock somewhere by the middle of next week.


----------



## clerkpalmer

hifi80sman said:


> And if you were talking about the Sony MDR-Z7M2, they are still on back order, but I called B&H today and they expect it to ship/receive stock somewhere by the middle of next week.



Thanks - I think I'm gonna pass on the Libratone then.  Fit is a big issue for me.  As for the Sony's, I'm glad they are honoring the deal. Looked like a mistake since the new sale price is $598.  I wish I grabbed a set but my credit card was on fire from the holidays.  Seems like they will be well worth the price you paid no matter how good (or less good) they are.  I've been eyeing some cans myself.  The HiFiMan Ananda BT are calling my name but the fancy bluetooth codecs don't work on on an iphone.  I really wish Apple would suck it up and support LDAC but that's never happening.


----------



## hifi80sman

clerkpalmer said:


> Thanks - I think I'm gonna pass on the Libratone then.  Fit is a big issue for me.  As for the Sony's, I'm glad they are honoring the deal. Looked like a mistake since the new sale price is $598.  I wish I grabbed a set but my credit card was on fire from the holidays.  Seems like they will be well worth the price you paid no matter how good (or less good) they are.  I've been eyeing some cans myself.  The HiFiMan Ananda BT are calling my name but the fancy bluetooth codecs don't work on on an iphone.  I really wish Apple would suck it up and support LDAC but that's never happening.


Man, those look sweet.  A little out of what I think I should spend, though!  Gah!


----------



## bronco1015

d3myz said:


> You tried the FIIL T1x, yet? I feel like they are a better version of the Sifi.


The FIILs arrived today. They definitely do sound better than the SiFi, but i'm hearing some weird stuff in the upper mids and treble. Sometimes i hear this cassette like sound, like when the clarity doesn't necessarily get mufflely, but it cuts out a little like casettes sometimes did. Other than that the sound is pretty steller.


----------



## voicemaster

bronco1015 said:


> The FIILs arrived today. They definitely do sound better than the SiFi, but i'm hearing some weird stuff in the upper mids and treble. Sometimes i hear this cassette like sound, like when the clarity doesn't necessarily get mufflely, but it cuts out a little like casettes sometimes did. Other than that the sound is pretty steller.


Make sure you use the AAC codec even on Android.


----------



## cwill (Jan 2, 2020)

Could anyone tell me how the Anbes 359 compares to the SSK? I found a used pair but if they're lacking the SSK bass like my Kissral R18's are, I don't want them. Maybe SSK's bass magic is just in the advertised 10mm driver they supposedly use.


----------



## bronco1015

clerkpalmer said:


> Thanks - I think I'm gonna pass on the Libratone then.  Fit is a big issue for me.  As for the Sony's, I'm glad they are honoring the deal. Looked like a mistake since the new sale price is $598.  I wish I grabbed a set but my credit card was on fire from the holidays.  Seems like they will be well worth the price you paid no matter how good (or less good) they are.  I've been eyeing some cans myself.  The HiFiMan Ananda BT are calling my name but the fancy bluetooth codecs don't work on on an iphone.  I really wish Apple would suck it up and support LDAC but that's never happening.


i'd previously purchased the M4U8 from a dealer, so i called and asked them about the Ananda BT, as i was intrigued by them, and at the time They were on sale for $700. the rep told me straight up, 'Don't buy them."  from the several batches they'd recieved there were battery or charging issues with them, and she said while they did sound pretty good, it wasn't $1,000 good even for BT.
I don't know this person at all, and was kind of surprised by her candid approach, but it was quite refreshing honestly.
As someone who has purchased a couple lemons before and been screwed when it came to warranty, i really appreciated that.
And i'm not trying to sensationlize at all, but i'm afraid to post the name of the dealer, because i don't maintain relationships between them and the brands they work with. But They have their own website to order from, a physical location and a store on amazon. Maybe other outlets as well.
I don't have any experience with the Ananda BT, but if a reseller tells me to stay away i'm gonna listen.


----------



## clerkpalmer

bronco1015 said:


> i'd previously purchased the M4U8 from a dealer, so i called and asked them about the Ananda BT, as i was intrigued by them, and at the time They were on sale for $700. the rep told me straight up, 'Don't buy them."  from the several batches they'd recieved there were battery or charging issues with them, and she said while they did sound pretty good, it wasn't $1,000 good even for BT.
> I don't know this person at all, and was kind of surprised by her candid approach, but it was quite refreshing honestly.
> As someone who has purchased a couple lemons before and been screwed when it came to warranty, i really appreciated that.
> And i'm not trying to sensationlize at all, but i'm afraid to post the name of the dealer, because i don't maintain relationships between them and the brands they work with. But They have their own website to order from, a physical location and a store on amazon. Maybe other outlets as well.
> I don't have any experience with the Ananda BT, but if a reseller tells me to stay away i'm gonna listen.


Appreciate the feedback. I’m currently pretty satisfied with my i3 for critical listening but there is always that itch to find the best. I have seen them as low as 699 but the codec thing and lack of ability to use them wired is an issue. Your comments are appreciated. I guess the search goes on ....


----------



## bandario

voicemaster said:


> Make sure you use the AAC codec even on Android.



Unless there is a particular quirk with the T1X, I see absolutely zero reason anyone would choose AAC over APT-X.


----------



## bronco1015

voicemaster said:


> Make sure you use the AAC codec even on Android.


Thanks for the suggestion, i actually am using AAC currently. AAC didn't sound great on my V20 or V30, but with a lot of products it honestly sounds great with my V40. E.G. I had the Beyerdynamic Lagoon ANC for a while, and they sounded better with AAC than APTX and they're actually capable of both.


----------



## bronco1015 (Jan 2, 2020)

clerkpalmer said:


> Appreciate the feedback. I’m currently pretty satisfied with my i3 for critical listening but there is always that itch to find the best. I have seen them as low as 699 but the codec thing and lack of ability to use them wired is an issue. Your comments are appreciated. I guess the search goes on ....


Of course. i'm looking for some closedback BT cans myself. i could get the ES100 and use them w my pM3 which i've considered, but i'd also like ANC. Thinking of trying out the MW65 since can get them for $374.99 Or repurchasing the M4u 8 for $299. Wish i hadn't sold those...


----------



## voicemaster

bandario said:


> Unless there is a particular quirk with the T1X, I see absolutely zero reason anyone would choose AAC over APT-X.


It doesn't have aptx so aac it is.


----------



## voicemaster

bronco1015 said:


> Thanks for the suggestion, i actually am using AAC currently. AAC didn't sound great on my V20 or V30, but with a lot of products it honestly sounds great with my V40. E.G. I had the Beyerdynamic Lagoon ANC for a while, and they sounded better with AAC than APTX and they're actually capable of both.


I actually notice a slight delay with some of my tws that offer aptx which is disappointing. The t1x with aac tho, never had any delay and I am using android and windows 10 exclusively.


----------



## bronco1015

bandario said:


> Unless there is a particular quirk with the T1X, I see absolutely zero reason anyone would choose AAC over APT-X.


imo, all seems to come down to how a codec is implemented on any given twe, headphone etc. i've had a couple twes for example, that supported both AAC and APTX as well as SBC. They sounded like garbage in each case, regardless of the codec.


----------



## HiFlight

hifi80sman said:


> Man, those look sweet.  A little out of what I think I should spend, though!  Gah!


Of all my TWS earpnones, the Track Air+ is #1 on my list considering both fit/comfort and overall realism of sound.  The recent firmware update nudged them to first place ahead of both my Mavin Air-X and Jabra 75t.


----------



## clerkpalmer

Got some Tin T4 today to pair with my BT20s.  This is my favorite combination yet. No hiss and enough power.   

This is a really nice sounding dynamic driver iem for the money. Slight V shaped with decent lows and crisp clear highs. 

The kxxs seemed to need more power than the bt20 offers. The tfz no3 is a really fun sounding combo but they lean toward basshead. The T4 strikes a nice balance between the 2.


----------



## clerkpalmer

HiFlight said:


> Of all my TWS earpnones, the Track Air+ is #1 on my list considering both fit/comfort and overall realism of sound.  The recent firmware update nudged them to first place ahead of both my Mavin Air-X and Jabra 75t.


I think hifi80sman was referring to the 650 klipsch not the Track Air.   In any event another vote in favor of the Track Air but they are just too expensive to justify.


----------



## clerkpalmer

bronco1015 said:


> Of course. i'm looking for some closedback BT cans myself. i could get the ES100 and use them w my pM3 which i've considered, but i'd also like ANC. Thinking of trying out the MW65 since can get them for $374.99 Or repurchasing the M4u 8 for $299. Wish i hadn't sold those...


I have not been overly impressed with M&D's over the ear cans.  The seem overly warm to me.  I think there may be better options.  You could grab a Mobius for example if you could live without ANC.  I'd take that every day over the MW65.


----------



## DigDub

gorman said:


> How's volume controlled with UTWS1?


The control scheme on the Fiio utws1:

1 right click - raise volume
1 left click - lower volume
2 right click - pause music playback
2 left click - activate assistant
Press and hold right for 2s - skip track
Press and hold left for 2s - previous track
Press and hold either side for 5s will power the side that's pressed.
Press in off state for 2s to power on.

It powers down automatically after about 5 mins when not connected to any source.


----------



## Shanling

mattedialdoc said:


> did you add volume control??



No, still no volume control.



bronco1015 said:


> longshot but have to ask, is there a firmware update that would make this an option with prev version?



Unfortunately not possible.


----------



## chinmie

the Mifo o7 suddenly become more interesting.. the small case, smaller earpiece, and the call quality is surprisingly good compared to other TWS he had demoed


----------



## georgelai57

Was there something recently about a FW update for the Lypertek Tevi? Thinking of a first purchase of the decade


----------



## bronco1015

Shanling said:


> No, still no volume control.
> 
> 
> 
> Unfortunately not possible.


Bummer. Thanks for sharing everything you have about these up to this point, the BA are very enjoyable with classical, jazz and blues imo. and soundtracks as well.


----------



## bronco1015

clerkpalmer said:


> I have not been overly impressed with M&D's over the ear cans.  The seem overly warm to me.  I think there may be better options.  You could grab a Mobius for example if you could live without ANC.  I'd take that every day over the MW65.


 Thanks for sharing that. I'll look into that one. may end up messaging you so i don't keep taking this thread off topic.


----------



## C_Lindbergh

clerkpalmer said:


> I have not been overly impressed with M&D's over the ear cans.  The seem overly warm to me.  I think there may be better options.  You could grab a Mobius for example if you could live without ANC.  I'd take that every day over the MW65.



Problem is that the Mobius aren't really portable, they are quite big and the battery life is very bad when using LDAC.


----------



## Sam L (Jan 3, 2020)

Though I appreciate the pace of innovation in the chi-fi tws space, I think I need to invest in the following scenario to quell the constant browsing of this thread.

- take back my rooted pixel 4 xl from my son.
- install viper4android
- pickup a minidsp ear
- calibrate my current tws acquisitions to the harman target
- check back in this forum in a year from now and see if a totl-like tws emerges (one that compares favorably to wired iems)

Anyone already try this?


----------



## Toom

hifi80sman said:


> The T5 II and the T5 Sport sound interesting for around a $200 price point (they'll go on sale, so I'll probably wait for that), but no damn way I'm paying $649 for a pair of TWS with ANC.  AI?  Sounds more gimmick than reality.  I could get some seriously legit cans for that.  If I'm looking for ANC and TWS, the APP sound good enough and are comfortable for mobile purposes.  I like the XM3 as well, not to mention the upcoming Sennheiser MTW 2, which looks to have ANC.



Do you have any info on the MTW 2?


----------



## karloil

georgelai57 said:


> Was there something recently about a FW update for the Lypertek Tevi? Thinking of a first purchase of the decade



It doesn't have an app George, so no firmware update here.


----------



## georgelai57

karloil said:


> It doesn't have an app George, so no firmware update here.


I must have been mistaken. Thank you.


----------



## karloil

Shanling said:


> *How to distinguish V1 from V2?*
> 
> Both versions look the same and come in the same packaging, you can only identify them either by checking their user manual or by testing the Surrounding awareness mode.



hhhmmmm...I'm keen with V2, but not knowing what I'll be getting is quite a bummer - here in SG (and in many parts of the world), once you open the box, it's permanently yours. Having an indication of the version number on the box is I think still VERY important.


----------



## galangerz

georgelai57 said:


> I must have been mistaken. Thank you.


One exists, it's in beta. PM


----------



## hifi80sman

Toom said:


> Do you have any info on the MTW 2?


https://fccid.io/DMOM3IETW2R/External-Photos/External-Photos-4544211


----------



## Toom

hifi80sman said:


> https://fccid.io/DMOM3IETW2R/External-Photos/External-Photos-4544211



Cheers. Will be keen to know when these will be released.

I have the MTW and while sound is ace, the rapid decharging does my nut in. So annoying when I get to gym only to discover they are dead.


----------



## karloil

Kenneth Galang said:


> One exists, it's in beta. PM



Really?! Nice, can share with everyone?


----------



## Peddler

karloil said:


> It doesn't have an app George, so no firmware update here.


There is a firmware and software update for the Tevi but it's in beta. Send them an email, they may give you the link.


----------



## clerkpalmer

C_Lindbergh said:


> Problem is that the Mobius aren't really portable, they are quite big and the battery life is very bad when using LDAC.


Fair points. But no Bluetooth headset can compete with it for sound quality in that price range. I’ll add the mobius isn’t very stylish so probably not ideal for travel and commuting. I was researching ANC closed back cans and ultimately gave up as it seems none of them sound very good.


----------



## LordToneeus

Time for the polarizing opinion of the day.  After receiving and auditioning the MW07 Plus from @clerkpalmer I've decided I much prefer my L2Pro's.  Hell, I can't say I prefer the sound of the MW07's even to my Fiil T1X's.  

The MW07 Plus is fine and balanced, but I don't get the fullness (maybe that's best read bass-heavyness) of sound that my music (all manner of metal) requires.  That likely says more about me than the earbuds.  

The ambient mode works fine, and I'll miss it.  ANC worked well for highway noise, but I don't care quite as much about that.  These are going back on the auction block.  

$200 shipped if anyone is interested.


----------



## clerkpalmer

LordToneeus said:


> Time for the polarizing opinion of the day.  After receiving and auditioning the MW07 Plus from @clerkpalmer I've decided I much prefer my L2Pro's.  Hell, I can't say I prefer the sound of the MW07's even to my Fiil T1X's.
> 
> The MW07 Plus is fine and balanced, but I don't get the fullness (maybe that's best read bass-heavyness) of sound that my music (all manner of metal) requires.  That likely says more about me than the earbuds.
> 
> ...



sorry they didn't work out for you. I guess that's the beauty of this hobby. glws.


----------



## karloil

Peddler said:


> There is a firmware and software update for the Tevi but it's in beta. Send them an email, they may give you the link.



Nice, got it! Thanks!


----------



## PTDennis

Guys, very happy with my Fiil T1X. Thanks for all the advices you posted here! As anyone been able to change their voice to English?


----------



## joshnor713

hifi80sman said:


> https://fccid.io/DMOM3IETW2R/External-Photos/External-Photos-4544211



Disappointing to see the design of the earpieces or case untouched. Fit was my biggest issue with the MTW, and why I sold them despite liking the sound. I also found the case too bulky. Needs to be slim to fit in the pocket. Guess I'll be hanging onto my WF-1000X for longer...


----------



## Grayson73

cwill said:


> Could anyone tell me how the Anbes 359 compares to the SSK? I found a used pair but if they're lacking the SSK bass like my Kissral R18's are, I don't want them. Maybe SSK's bass magic is just in the advertised 10mm driver they supposedly use.



My Anbes 359 are lacking the bass that SSK have, so maybe they're similar to Kissral R18.


----------



## cwill

Grayson73 said:


> My Anbes 359 are lacking the bass that SSK have, so maybe they're similar to Kissral R18.


Thank you!


----------



## Toom

joshnor713 said:


> Disappointing to see the design of the earpieces or case untouched. Fit was my biggest issue with the MTW, and why I sold them despite liking the sound. I also found the case too bulky. Needs to be slim to fit in the pocket. Guess I'll be hanging onto my WF-1000X for longer...



Lol, the case too bulky? Are you Ant Man?


----------



## LordToneeus

d3myz said:


> You are the devil himself.  but you have a point. That's why YOU should buy the Boltune's I showed you. I need a comparison done with someone who owns some really high end BT cans. What did you say you have again? I know you just got two pair of B&W's and I think you said you own the Sony's? the Bose? Anyways, just give them a trial run and return them if you don't like them.  If it's still a no go, DM me and i'll send you my pair.
> 
> I 2nd @hifi80's man. Buy the L2pro. They are phenomenal, but I honestly think they have a LOT of bass. not too much but still a lot on the flat and signature sound setting. The clarity of the highs and mids is just pristine like Caribbean beach water.


I received the Boltune's today, and my God, they sound awesome to me!  They're super comfy and light, though they are a bit large.  I went with the brown and white.  We'll see how they look to the beholders  

I ended up getting them for around $46 after a Lightning Deal.


----------



## tma6

Here are some first impressions of the N6 pro.
Out of the box it’s a little bass light though still punchier than the Tevis. I absolutely recommend a bass favored eq for these. On my second day of listening right now and the bass is very detailed and strikes a nice balance between tight and resonant. It’s definitely no L2P bass but a little cleaner. The mids are excellent, though a bit pushed forward in the mix for my liking. Also there’s a bit of sibilance at higher volumes. The highs have truly excellent detail and timbre, but can be a bit harsh on certain tracks for sure. My test for this is usually whether or not I can play Kendrick’s good kid mad city album since a bunch of songs (money trees, poetic justice, and swimming pools) have strident mid-high kicks that are harsh on many sets (including these). In general, the highs are still excellent, I’d say they rival the Tevis for tonality. Compared w the L2Ps, the overall presentation is a bit more laid back and less in your face, with more balance and perhaps slightly more clarity (though the L2Ps are still awesome and objectively better for certain low-end focused tracks). The sound is also less full and has less enveloping bass than the L2Ps (I wouldn’t go as far to say these are bass light though, esp w eq). I would say that the n6 pros sound a lot better on the second day of use as the sound has warmed up a little. The soundstage is decently wide, perhaps slightly wider than the L2Ps but less than the MW07s. It lacks a bit of fullness sometimes, but the imaging is great for TWS. I’d say as of now the overall sound sig is super clean, detailed, balanced mid-forward presentation, though overall a bit analytic and unemotional for my taste. If you’re looking for a flat sound sig, I’d say out of the box these have got to be at the top of the list for TWS. They are great actually imo, but 100% need bass favored eq for me. I’d also put a dip in the eq around 1-2k to reduce some of that harshness that can pop up. I’m gonna keep listening since these definitely deserve burn in time. Will probably do a full comparison w the n6, which should be coming in on Tuesday!


----------



## joshnor713

Toom said:


> Lol, the case too bulky? Are you Ant Man?



It's too thick in any dimension to not bulge in the pocket. TW case designs need to be mindful of pocketability.


----------



## tma6

Just did an A/B comparison btw the n6 pros and the fiil t1x. Damn do the fiils sound good! I’d say the n6 pro has a bit wider stage, as the fiils are pretty narrow. There is a bit more detail retrieval in the mids and highs for the n6 pros, but it’s pretty close. Tonality is pretty similar w a little more realism in the n6s, but once again it’s very close. I’d say the biggest difference is in the imaging. I’m realizing this might be the true strength of the n6 pros. You can really pinpoint directionality and separation of instruments, and its not just random, it makes sense w the music. The fiils have a clean and more enveloping bass though, and really are fantastic for the $40 that I paid for them.


----------



## hifi80sman

tma6 said:


> Here are some first impressions of the N6 pro.
> Out of the box it’s a little bass light though still punchier than the Tevis. I absolutely recommend a bass favored eq for these. On my second day of listening right now and the bass is very detailed and strikes a nice balance between tight and resonant. It’s definitely no L2P bass but a little cleaner. The mids are excellent, though a bit pushed forward in the mix for my liking. Also there’s a bit of sibilance at higher volumes. The highs have truly excellent detail and timbre, but can be a bit harsh on certain tracks for sure. My test for this is usually whether or not I can play Kendrick’s good kid mad city album since a bunch of songs (money trees, poetic justice, and swimming pools) have strident mid-high kicks that are harsh on many sets (including these). In general, the highs are still excellent, I’d say they rival the Tevis for tonality. Compared w the L2Ps, the overall presentation is a bit more laid back and less in your face, with more balance and perhaps slightly more clarity (though the L2Ps are still awesome and objectively better for certain low-end focused tracks). The sound is also less full and has less enveloping bass than the L2Ps (I wouldn’t go as far to say these are bass light though, esp w eq). I would say that the n6 pros sound a lot better on the second day of use as the sound has warmed up a little. The soundstage is decently wide, perhaps slightly wider than the L2Ps but less than the MW07s. It lacks a bit of fullness sometimes, but the imaging is great for TWS. I’d say as of now the overall sound sig is super clean, detailed, balanced mid-forward presentation, though overall a bit analytic and unemotional for my taste. If you’re looking for a flat sound sig, I’d say out of the box these have got to be at the top of the list for TWS. They are great actually imo, but 100% need bass favored eq for me. I’d also put a dip in the eq around 1-2k to reduce some of that harshness that can pop up. I’m gonna keep listening since these definitely deserve burn in time. Will probably do a full comparison w the n6, which should be coming in on Tuesday!


I know you described the general flavor as flat, but would it be fair to say they are perceptively flat up to perhaps the mid-to-high treble, where they may be pushed a few dBs?


----------



## tma6 (Jan 3, 2020)

hifi80sman said:


> I know you described the general flavor as flat, but would it be fair to say they are perceptively flat up to perhaps the mid-to-high treble, where they may be pushed a few dBs?



I would say that’s absolutely fair. After doing a bunch of comparisons, the highs are coming through on busy tracks on the n6 pro better than on most other sets. Also after some burn in the harshness has lessened, though it’s definitely on the sharper side on certain songs. I’m starting to like these actually lol, starting to get used to them and loving the crispiness.


----------



## Toom

joshnor713 said:


> It's too thick in any dimension to not bulge in the pocket. TW case designs need to be mindful of pocketability.



Doesn't bulge in jacket pocket. How do you carry IEM or headphone cases?


----------



## joshnor713

Toom said:


> Doesn't bulge in jacket pocket. How do you carry IEM or headphone cases?



Pants, or "trousers" for you


----------



## clerkpalmer

joshnor713 said:


> Pants, or "trousers" for you



I mean, the case is big but it's not ARMADILLO in your trousers big.


----------



## joshnor713

clerkpalmer said:


> I mean, the case is big but it's not ARMADILLO in your trousers big.



Point I'm trying to make is that the cases should be slim. No, the MTW isn't big by any means, but it can't be called slim.


----------



## Toom

joshnor713 said:


> Point I'm trying to make is that the cases should be slim. No, the MTW isn't big by any means, but it can't be called slim.



It's half the size of my wallet - or at least it was until I joined Head-fi, lol.


----------



## d3myz

SoundChoice said:


> How do the APP compare to the Sonys?





david8613 said:


> Anyone try these?
> 
> Wireless Earbuds,Bluetooth Earbuds 5.0 in-Ear Stereo Headphones with 2200mAh Slide Aluminum Charging Case,Bluetooth Earbuds IPX7 Waterproof,Free to Switch Single/Twin Mode with 100Hours Playtime Utaxo https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07VZM7RN7/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_i_LWNdEbFV7WGR1


I had them for a couple days. Sound was underwhelming, unfortunately. Utaxo stuff just kind of sucks, which is weird because they are a Sunvalley Tech company, (Boltune, TaoTronics) Their other brands make some good stuff. I bought some boltune over the ear noise canceling cans ($65) and they are fabulous for the price, but I liked the Utaxo color scheme so I ordered them and they sounded nothing alike even though aesthetically they were identical.

I've also tried a bunch of Taotronics stuff and overall it's good. Except their $60 ANC cans, ANC is great, but the sound is garbage.


LordToneeus said:


> I received the Boltune's today, and my God, they sound awesome to me!  They're super comfy and light, though they are a bit large.  I went with the brown and white.  We'll see how they look to the beholders
> 
> I ended up getting them for around $46 after a Lightning Deal.


That's great to hear! Mine had a stupid defect with the band so i exchanged them for the black version. They don't sound as good and the ANC button has a green LED light behind them. maybe i'll get another pair of the brown and silver or try the Taotronics that are the same form factor! $46 is a steal!


----------



## Cevisi

Iam looking for tws for a friend around 30 dollar i was thinking about the new kz s1d or is there somthing else i should consider iam not into tws


----------



## Spamateur (Jan 3, 2020)

LordToneeus said:


> Time for the polarizing opinion of the day. After receiving and auditioning the MW07 Plus from @clerkpalmer I've decided I much prefer my L2Pro's. Hell, I can't say I prefer the sound of the MW07's even to my Fiil T1X's.



If it makes you feel any better, I find the MW07 to sound slow, mushy and thick with an uneven treble response that prioritizes a distorted treble spike that resembles driver breakup. I've auditioned them three different times at three different stores now and can't get them out of my ears fast enough. Whenever I see the MW07 mentioned as the "consensus best sounding" I always refrain from commenting as more people seem to love them than not, but I also am in the minority here as I love the Mavin Air-X and have yet to find anything that matches its cohesiveness, clarity and distortion-free presentation.

Again, all due respect to those who love the MW07 as it works for y'all, but they're the one TWS that I haven't been remotely tempted to purchase.


----------



## SilverEars (Jan 3, 2020)

Spamateur said:


> If it makes you feel any better, I find the MW07 to sound slow, mushy and thick with an uneven treble response that prioritizes a distorted treble spike that resembles driver breakup. I've auditioned them three different times at three different stores now and can't get them out of my ears fast enough. Whenever I see the MW07 mentioned as the "consensus best sounding" I always refrain from commenting as more people seem to love them than not, but I also am in the minority here as I love the Mavin Air-X and have yet to find anything that matches its cohesiveness, clarity and distortion-free presentation.
> 
> Again, all due respect to those who love the MW07 as it works for y'all, but they're the one TWS that I haven't been remotely tempted to purchase.


You arn't wrong.  Tastes are questionable though.

You describe it like the measurement.  This isn't an ideal tonal response, particularly the treble.  I've seen some treble peaked TWS people say they like here.  Go figure.


----------



## Spamateur

SilverEars said:


> You arn't wrong.  Tastes are questionable though.
> 
> You describe it like the measurement.  This isn't an ideal tonal response, particularly the treble.  I've seen some treble peaked TWS people say they like here.  Go figure.



Are you saying everyone's taste is questionable, or specifically mine?

EDIT: Saw you edited your post. It makes more sense in context now haha.


----------



## BigZ12

Got the SSK BT03 today, after waiting two months for the shipment. Bought at AliExpress.
And of course... finally looking forward to test them out, and the right bud has less bass/volume than the left one. Have tried several different tips, so it's not a fit issue.
Anyone else with similar experiences?


----------



## Ynot1

How is the real world battery life?


----------



## Spamateur

SilverEars said:


> You describe it like the measurement. This isn't an ideal tonal response, particularly the treble. I've seen some treble peaked TWS people say they like here.



I think with this TWS thread you get folks of all sorts of tastes and preferences since it's not brand- or model-specific. That leads to a lot of confusion as there are so many different sound signatures people prefer all in the same thread.

Also, my tastes have changed quite a bit over the years. I used to prefer bassy and v-shaped signatures but now I prefer a Harman curve-like response, so I can imagine a lot of folks have their own personal changes over time.


----------



## dweaver

I was cleaning a shelf today and noticed a Simgot box laying there. Opening the box I noticed the treble/midrange oriented tips I never used on the Simgots as I preferred the bass oriented tip more. So I thought I wonder what those tips would sound like on my L2P?

Man did they change the sound! I have been listening to the L2P using the flat EQ in the app. When I placed these tips on I had to switch to the default EQ and they sound smokin if you prefer tighter bass and more mids and treble. If you like the rich bass of the L2P they might be to much but if you wish it was punchier then these tips make a huge difference.

So anyone who has a Simgot IEM and the L2P give those tips a try.


----------



## tma6 (Jan 3, 2020)

Yo the n6 pro def have the ability to dole out punchy bass that’s super clean. I’m using a strong bass eq and these have responded great. Also def worth lowering the treble if you’re sensitive to it. Treble can be a bit sharp but these are absolutely one of the most detailed sets I’ve heard in the TWS space. Here’s the Spotify eq I’m using:


----------



## hifi80sman

joshnor713 said:


> Point I'm trying to make is that the cases should be slim. No, the MTW isn't big by any means, but it can't be called slim.


This brings up an interesting point.  I'm not sure what market research the major audio brands have completed with respect to a TWS being pocketable.  For me, and I don't claim to be the majority, but I never carry them in my pocket, rather, in a backpack or bag.


----------



## hifi80sman

Spamateur said:


> If it makes you feel any better, I find the MW07 to sound slow, mushy and thick with an uneven treble response that prioritizes a distorted treble spike that resembles driver breakup. I've auditioned them three different times at three different stores now and can't get them out of my ears fast enough. Whenever I see the MW07 mentioned as the "consensus best sounding" I always refrain from commenting as more people seem to love them than not, but I also am in the minority here as I love the Mavin Air-X and have yet to find anything that matches its cohesiveness, clarity and distortion-free presentation.
> 
> Again, all due respect to those who love the MW07 as it works for y'all, but they're the one TWS that I haven't been remotely tempted to purchase.


Given anatomical differences are part of the equation AND further exacerbated by the fit of the MW07, I can understand why you would not like them and someone else would.  There's no right answer, only what's right for YOU.  There are a number of people that love bright sound signatures and others that favor the low end.  Personally, I am not a fan of bright signatures or a neutral/flat response, but that's just me.  Music speaks to the soul, so to each their own.

If you like Britney Spears, who am I to judge?


----------



## Mouseman

clerkpalmer said:


> I mean, the case is big but it's not ARMADILLO in your trousers big.


It's really quite frightening...  
I keep all but the bigger cases in my pants pocket unless I'm sitting for long stretches. Or if they have sharp edges.


----------



## bronco1015

joshnor713 said:


> Disappointing to see the design of the earpieces or case untouched. Fit was my biggest issue with the MTW, and why I sold them despite liking the sound. I also found the case too bulky. Needs to be slim to fit in the pocket. Guess I'll be hanging onto my WF-1000X for longer...


i get a great fit with the MTW, but i was hoping for a smaller form factor as well. case could be smaller, but not a deal breaker. except for the hinge, hope that's improved on the 2nd gen.


----------



## bronco1015

tma6 said:


> Here are some first impressions of the N6 pro.
> Out of the box it’s a little bass light though still punchier than the Tevis. I absolutely recommend a bass favored eq for these. On my second day of listening right now and the bass is very detailed and strikes a nice balance between tight and resonant. It’s definitely no L2P bass but a little cleaner. The mids are excellent, though a bit pushed forward in the mix for my liking. Also there’s a bit of sibilance at higher volumes. The highs have truly excellent detail and timbre, but can be a bit harsh on certain tracks for sure. My test for this is usually whether or not I can play Kendrick’s good kid mad city album since a bunch of songs (money trees, poetic justice, and swimming pools) have strident mid-high kicks that are harsh on many sets (including these). In general, the highs are still excellent, I’d say they rival the Tevis for tonality. Compared w the L2Ps, the overall presentation is a bit more laid back and less in your face, with more balance and perhaps slightly more clarity (though the L2Ps are still awesome and objectively better for certain low-end focused tracks). The sound is also less full and has less enveloping bass than the L2Ps (I wouldn’t go as far to say these are bass light though, esp w eq). I would say that the n6 pros sound a lot better on the second day of use as the sound has warmed up a little. The soundstage is decently wide, perhaps slightly wider than the L2Ps but less than the MW07s. It lacks a bit of fullness sometimes, but the imaging is great for TWS. I’d say as of now the overall sound sig is super clean, detailed, balanced mid-forward presentation, though overall a bit analytic and unemotional for my taste. If you’re looking for a flat sound sig, I’d say out of the box these have got to be at the top of the list for TWS. They are great actually imo, but 100% need bass favored eq for me. I’d also put a dip in the eq around 1-2k to reduce some of that harshness that can pop up. I’m gonna keep listening since these definitely deserve burn in time. Will probably do a full comparison w the n6, which should be coming in on Tuesday!


Wait. Rival the Tevis? i loved those, but they weren't worth $90 imo. Would you place the N6Pro higher or lower than the tevi for highs? and would you say it's an appreciable difference? i know these are first impressions, and i'll still give these a listen potentially, but if they're not a step up from the tevis aside from bass i likely won't keep them, as where my MTW is eqed fits that spot quite nicely. probably wouldn't get the n6 either, as the l2P are my go to for bassier tracks.


----------



## Cevisi

What is a good 30 dollar tws ?


----------



## bronco1015

Cevisi said:


> What is a good 30 dollar tws ?


Tronsmart Spunkybeat.


----------



## Spamateur

hifi80sman said:


> Given anatomical differences are part of the equation AND further exacerbated by the fit of the MW07, I can understand why you would not like them and someone else would.  There's no right answer, only what's right for YOU.  There are a number of people that love bright sound signatures and others that favor the low end.  Personally, I am not a fan of bright signatures or a neutral/flat response, but that's just me.  Music speaks to the soul, so to each their own.
> 
> If you like Britney Spears, who am I to judge?



Yep, and I completely respect that. If we all heard the same, the TWS hobby would be pretty damn boring, and we'd all have a lot more discretionary income.

I can't knock Britney, but only because I once won a couple hundred bucks from a Britney Spears-themed video slot machine in Vegas.


----------



## howdy

With what I have in my collection I still believe that the WFXM3 have the best bass followed by Senns MTW. I just love that Sony sound sig in the XM3s!


----------



## Sam L

tma6 said:


> Just did an A/B comparison btw the n6 pros and the fiil t1x. Damn do the fiils sound good! I’d say the n6 pro has a bit wider stage, as the fiils are pretty narrow. There is a bit more detail retrieval in the mids and highs for the n6 pros, but it’s pretty close. Tonality is pretty similar w a little more realism in the n6s, but once again it’s very close. I’d say the biggest difference is in the imaging. I’m realizing this might be the true strength of the n6 pros. You can really pinpoint directionality and separation of instruments, and its not just random, it makes sense w the music. The fiils have a clean and more enveloping bass though, and really are fantastic for the $40 that I paid for them.


What type of music do you primarily listen to?


----------



## srinivasvignesh

Quick question. What are the best isolating tws today?


----------



## tma6 (Jan 4, 2020)

bronco1015 said:


> Wait. Rival the Tevis? i loved those, but they weren't worth $90 imo. Would you place the N6Pro higher or lower than the tevi for highs? and would you say it's an appreciable difference? i know these are first impressions, and i'll still give these a listen potentially, but if they're not a step up from the tevis aside from bass i likely won't keep them, as where my MTW is eqed fits that spot quite nicely. probably wouldn't get the n6 either, as the l2P are my go to for bassier tracks.



Yeah these definitely sound better than the Tevis. Def gonna write a full review but the n6 pros sound exceptional imo.


----------



## tma6 (Jan 4, 2020)

Sam L said:


> What type of music do you primarily listen to?



 I listen to a lot of different genres. To give you a sense here are some artists Ive been listening to a lot recently: Snarky Puppy, D’Angelo, Kendrick, FKJ, Arctic Monkeys, Bob Marley, Vulfpeck, Tom Misch, Exmag, Nujabes, Anderson Paak, DJ Grumble, A Tribe Called Quest, Bill Evans, BADBADNOTGOOD.


----------



## bronco1015

For anyone who owns the Fiil t1x, is it just me; or do these open up significantly after a while. They are really impressive imo, especially with metal and rock.


----------



## LordToneeus

bronco1015 said:


> For anyone who owns the Fiil t1x, is it just me; or do these open up significantly after a while. They are really impressive imo, especially with metal and rock.


They definitely did for me as well.


----------



## galangerz

https://www.lypertek.com/app-beta


----------



## Floris888

Is it worth , switching to wireless iems.


----------



## georgelai57

Floris888 said:


> Is it worth , switching to wireless iems.


18,000 posts would seem to indicate yes


----------



## Odioer

srinivasvignesh said:


> I keep trying a couple of times (sometimes 3 or 4 times), for it to stop. This is not common with TWS at all. Even with SSK, it appears to be not normal and defective.


I have experienced the same once, but it was because the case was out of battery.


----------



## Floris888

What earbuds is recommended most..


----------



## Ooru

Floris888 said:


> What earbuds is recommended most..



That really depends on your price range. I'd recommend taking a look at scarbir.com. Seems he has a pretty good handle on sound quality, and he takes price into account.

That said, he doesn't have reviews for everything, and it seems a lot of folks here also like the FIIL T1x and the Nuarl N6 & NT01A.

I just got a pair of T1x's yesterday, so I'm still burning them in (but I like them so far!). Does anyone use the app to change EQ's and/or do burn-in? What settings do you use? Personally, out of the box, I set the app EQ to "Bass," and I set the built-in Android EQ to Custom | Bass Punch | Soundstage Off. Sounded the most similar to my EQ'd MDR-7506's.


----------



## Sam L

Floris888 said:


> Is it worth , switching to wireless iems.


No


----------



## SoundChoice

Floris888 said:


> What earbuds is recommended most..



None. Unlike IEMs, where you can find a consensus group for various price points and genre, TWS is all over the map, with many choices and no consensus on anything due to variations on fit, features, range, etc. If you follow this thread for a while, you'll hear people like, discuss, and then complain about various wireless earbuds, and then see a smattering of dozens if not hundreds different names, with no trend or grouping centering around any one or few. Of course, I'm happy to be wrong.


----------



## SoundChoice

Floris888 said:


> Is it worth , switching to wireless iems.



For freedom during activity at the expense of some audio quality which your ear may or may not be able to discern, wireless can be worthy not as a switch, but a useful addition to your collection.


----------



## Ynot1 (Jan 4, 2020)

georgelai57 said:


> 18,000 posts would seem to indicate yes



Yeah but 18000 of posts include people like me who do not get any response to inquiry. So it does not count towards interest in TWS per say.
But I recall many positive reviews of Haylou Gt1, Xiaomi Redmi, and SSK thingy (but sold out) were under $30. However the battery life is nowhere near as good as a wireless headphone like Fiio EH3.


----------



## Meanstreak242

Floris888 said:


> Is it worth , switching to wireless iems.



That depends entirely on your expectations.   They are not "there yet" if you're expecting the same quality from a wired source.   While yes, the BT protocols and the new Qualcomm chips really did solve a lot of the major problems they still don't fix the main problem most true wireless have.  Amplification.  While you can get a nice pleasing sound, decent dynamics, and a ridiculous amount of convenience, they can't touch the dynamic range and clarity of a wired set.  (I've been through a lot of these.  After a lot of swapping out, trial and error I realized my expectations where way too high.)

So it depends on WHY you want true wireless.  If you're looking for a super convenient pair of in ears that you can listen to on the go with reasonably-good sound quality, then yes it's worth it for you.     If you want clarity and detail like you'd get in a wired set then no it's not worth it.   A good compromise would be a really nice pair of wired with a Bluetooth adapter (like a btr5, for example.)  

This is not to say true wireless sound bad, they don't.  Just understand what you're getting before you jump down this rabbit hole.  (With so many very decent cheap pairs, it's way too easy to dump a ton of money before you even realize it.  Too many "Oh, just another 40-50 bucks".)


----------



## Ooru

Ynot1 said:


> Yeah but 18000 of posts include people like me who do not get any response to inquiry. So it does not count towards interest in TWS per say.
> But I recall many positive reviews of Haylou Gt1, Xiaomi Redmi, and SSK thingy (but sold out) were under $30. However the battery life is nowhere near as good as a wireless headphone like Fiio EH3.


Yep, the MPow Flame S, for example, has a 12-hour-playback battery, but it's not a TWS because of a shared wire. It's still highly portable, though, and lacking in most wires, so if portability/wireless-ness is your only consideration, there's a slew of better options with better sound quality, better comfort, better battery, etc.

I got the T1x's, because I wanted something:

that would fit in my pocket
would last 5hrs minimum
could be fully charged in under an hour
had an EQ (because Android is weird about third-party EQ's)
would still sound decent
They'll never replace my wired cans, though, or any of my other headphones; just an addition to the headphone family!


----------



## jant71

Floris888 said:


> Is it worth , switching to wireless iems.



Not atm. No one should be doing it right now. CES is just days away with new and more refined tech. Just days away and you'll have more and better info of what is coming and what it can do up from what we have now. Much better plan if you wait a week and then review your options cause they will certainly have changed.


----------



## Ooru

jant71 said:


> Not atm. No one should be doing it right now. CES is just days away with new and more refined tech. Just days away and you'll have more and better info of what is coming and what it can do up from what we have now. Much better plan if you wait a week and then review your options cause they will certainly have changed.


It might make some models drop in price, but the lower your target price-point, the less likely you'll probably see much of a discount. If you have the wherewithal, though, it might be good to hold off until after CES. You might get a deep discount on last year's model!


----------



## Spamateur (Jan 4, 2020)

Got the Mavin Air-XR Qi today. It's hard to believe how tiny the case is! See my pic below.

As many of you know I love the previous Mavin TWS model, the Air-X, but had some nitpicks with the materials used. The good news is the quality of the plastic used for both the XR's case and earpieces is much nicer and not the ugly glossy plastic used on the X. My one complaint about the build is the hinge on the case is just a tad loose.

Qi charging works like a charm, although the bottom of the case gets a bit warmer than when I use my Qi charging pad with the L2P.

The earpieces are also tiny being ever so slightly smaller than the Air-X, but they're small enough where I could probably sleep with them in my ears. They're incredibly light and very comfortable.

The touch controls are full-featured but aren't the most consistent in registering touches, but there's probably a learning curve. They lean towards "less sensitive" which I actually prefer as they're harder to accidentally activate.

Like the Air-X, these have the quietest noise floor I've heard from any brand. It's virtually inaudible. I wonder what Mavin is doing differently with these Qualcomm chips as literally every other model I've heard has a noise floor that's detectable right off the bat.

Noise isolation is really good with aftermarket Comply SmartCore Sport Pro tips. The stock silicones don't isolate quite as well, and add a bit of sibilance. Incidentally, the nozzles have a rather large bore size so the Comply tips really took some wrangling to get them on.

In terms of sound, my initial impressions are favorable. They sound a lot like the Air-X but are a hair warmer with slightly less separation as they're more intimate in presentation than the X. They're lacking any obvious audible distortion or artifacts in the frequency range outside of a bit of sibilance compared to the X, but that seems to be fit-related as I don't have that problem with the Comply tips versus the stock silicone tips. They're warm in absolute frequency response and sound like they're probably designed close to the Harman curve. *I do think the Air-X is the better sounding of the 2 models, *but they're not worlds apart in that regard.

Compared to the L2P, they're a lot less bassy with a much more even treble response. The treble in general is less forward, not as sharp and more relaxed than the L2P, but doesn't suffer from a lack of air. The Comply foam tips I stuck on there definitely reduce the treble a bit too much for my taste compared to the stock silicone tips that came with the XR. The L2P also has a bigger soundstage, but the Mavin is much clearer and tonally even from top to bottom. The L2P sounds a little thick in the bass and lower mids in comparison.

I'm really loving the XR so far! They're better than the X than and addressed most of my complaints with that previous model in terms of build quality and feel without mucking around with the excellent sound quality. The addition of Qi charging is awesome. Hopefully Mavin can help me out by getting me a pair that doesn't have the voice notifications in Japanese (see the nitpicks below).



Some nitpicks:

- They barely fit in the case with the large Comply smart core premium tips. I really have to cram them in and compress the foam tips to get them to fit with the lid closed.
- They don't fit in the case with the sport stabilizers, but I've found that on both the X and XR that they're not necessary for a comfortable fit. This seems like a weird design decision, but clearly the case size was the main priority.
- The case still has a microUSB charging port, although Qi charging sorta negates this being a problem for me, but it'd still be nice to only have to bring a single USB-C cable for my phone and TWS when I travel.
- For some reason the pair I got from Amazon sold directly by Mavin has the voice notifications in Japanese. I contacted the seller through Amazon to see if they can remedy this.


----------



## Spamateur

Here's another picture of the case next to one of my wife's AirPods for a size comparison.


----------



## gibletzor

Pulled out one of my first sets of TWS tonight that I hadn't listened to in quite a while.  I forgot how great the Alterola IE600 sound with some EQing.  Good strong bass, crystal clear highs.  Mids are a bit muddy until you boost them with an EQ, then they come out pretty damn fine too.  Only downside is their proprietary eartips, which can be a bit weird to get a good fit with sometimes and doesn't leave you any options for something more comfortable if you don't like the stock tips.  Thanks, @actorlife for convincing me to get these!


----------



## jant71 (Jan 4, 2020)

Ooru said:


> It might make some models drop in price, but the lower your target price-point, the less likely you'll probably see much of a discount. If you have the wherewithal, though, it might be good to hold off until after CES. You might get a deep discount on last year's model!



Not just that. The answer to should I go wireless may be "no" right now but some new model with a new features or level may change the answer irregardless of  price. Perhaps now is "no they aren't good sounding enough" but maybe that Helm electrostat model changes the answer. Depends on the person but there is no doubt there are more answers to the question in just a few days.


----------



## ngd3

That bass boost is so ridiculous. Would be curious to see them measured with different app EQs used

@crinacle any chance you were using the Soundcore app that has EQ presets?


----------



## Sam L (Jan 4, 2020)

Sam L said:


> No



@Floris888  -- Sorry, I was being a bit facetious there. (actually meant to reply with an honest answer right away, but ended up hitting the road w/ family.)

The last 6 months have been a renaissance of sorts for TWS earphones with brisk product development, resulting in constant new product introductions continually. This has resulted in raising the overall quality of chi-fi TWS earphones. If you were in the market a 1.5 year ago for some TWS's in the $20 to $40 USD range, you would end up with something not very satisfying from a music standpoint -- pretty much equivalent to sub $10 iems (and not as good the Monoprice 8320s, remember those!).

Currently, there are a number of $30 to $40 TWS's that easily rival Apple Airpods (not to say that Airpods sound particularly good, but it's a good reference point since they're everywhere.) There are even a few in this price range that is roughly sonically as good as Apple Airpds Pros.

With any TWS models over $120, you hit diminishing returns in terms of sound quality.


----------



## clerkpalmer

ngd3 said:


> That bass boost is so ridiculous. Would be curious to see them measured with different app EQs used
> 
> @crinacle any chance you were using the Soundcore app that has EQ presets?


Just guessing that’s the flat setting.


----------



## Sam L

Guys (and Gals?)... Had a good laugh after reading all the responses to @Floris888 question re: "is it worth switching to wireless iems?".

Basically, we all recognize the shortcomings of TWS earphones but still persistently post here and buy various offerings, noting small incremental changes day after day.

A great example of our affliction?


----------



## Sam L

clerkpalmer said:


> Just guessing that’s the flat setting.



does the "piano" setting lower that bass shelf?


----------



## clerkpalmer

Sam L said:


> Guys (and Gals?)... Had a good laugh after reading all the responses to @Floris888 question re: "is it worth switching to wireless iems?".
> 
> Basically, we all recognize the shortcomings of TWS earphones but still persistently post here and buy various offerings, noting small incremental changes day after day.
> 
> A great example of our affliction?



well put. Baby steps for sure. TWS has already  made wired BT completely irrelevant.  Once LDAC and other similar codecs are available in TWS then I think we will see some real progress toward audiophile grade tws.


----------



## Sam L

clerkpalmer said:


> well put. Baby steps for sure. TWS has already  made wired BT completely irrelevant.  Once LDAC and other similar codecs are available in TWS then I think we will see some real progress toward audiophile grade tws.



"TWS has already made wired BT completely irrelevant." From a market standpoint, I agree. But I still use my btr3 daily, more so recently after picking up a pair of AKG K371's. It's a weird use-case, since I prefer this setup when walking to the office. Nitpicking, I know... because I could just use an adapter but I still like wireless-ish freedom of a BT dac/adapter. So there's still a tiny, niche demand for wired BT, I think.


----------



## C_Lindbergh

Cmon bring on CES already, if Sennheiser doesn't unveil their MTW 2.0 I'll be extremely disappointed


----------



## bandario

I think we should focus on piping sound directly to the brain, then we can stop talking about hardware limitations and focus on high quality recordings...that should surely bring about some consensus ;p


----------



## clerkpalmer

Sam L said:


> "TWS has already made wired BT completely irrelevant." From a market standpoint, I agree. But I still use my btr3 daily, more so recently after picking up a pair of AKG K371's. It's a weird use-case, since I prefer this setup when walking to the office. Nitpicking, I know... because I could just use an adapter but I still like wireless-ish freedom of a BT dac/adapter. So there's still a tiny, niche demand for wired BT, I think.


The adapters are cool for sure. Particularly because they support LDAC. I was referring more to the jaybird style neckbuds that we’re so popular. They are dead on arrival now.


----------



## tma6

clerkpalmer said:


> well put. Baby steps for sure. TWS has already  made wired BT completely irrelevant.  Once LDAC and other similar codecs are available in TWS then I think we will see some real progress toward audiophile grade tws.



I hesitate to say audiophile grade, but as of right now the n6 pro are the closest that I’ve heard to an audiophile grade TWS. I feel hesitant only bc I know sound is subjective and there are those that might not love some of their brightness, but pound for pound these are one of the best if not the best TWS I’ve heard to date. They have the best detail retrieval, timbre, and imaging of any TWS I’ve tried. Also with some bass eq and burn in, they are not bass light, and the bass is insanely clean and balanced while also having awesome extension and satisfying punchiness. I want to give it one more day before a full review where I’ll try to describe the sound in detail. All I can say as of right now is that these are a fantastic set not just of TWS but IEMs in general.


----------



## chinmie

clerkpalmer said:


> The adapters are cool for sure. Particularly because they support LDAC. I was referring more to the jaybird style neckbuds that we’re so popular. They are dead on arrival now.



I tend to agree with you. The neckbands or behind the neck wireless are somewhat too "in the middle"...i think people would rather go straight to TWS or go big with wireless headphones. Maybe those neckbuds still have some advantage of multiple device connection, or for ANC on a cheaper price..but even that can be arguable,  as the headphones can also do that, and the TWS are catching on quick


----------



## voicemaster

cwill said:


> Bottom of my case says T1 X. Model F022


Did you turn off "location" on your phone? Apparently, fiil uses proximity sensor to detect the earbuds. Turn your location on and try to connect to your phone again.


----------



## cwill

voicemaster said:


> Did you turn off "location" on your phone? Apparently, fiil uses proximity sensor to detect the earbuds. Turn your location on and try to connect to your phone again.


Yeah, doesn't work.


----------



## bronco1015

Spamateur said:


> Got the Mavin Air-XR Qi today. It's hard to believe how tiny the case is! See my pic below.
> 
> As many of you know I love the previous Mavin TWS model, the Air-X, but had some nitpicks with the materials used. The good news is the quality of the plastic used for both the XR's case and earpieces is much nicer and not the ugly glossy plastic used on the X. My one complaint about the build is the hinge on the case is just a tad loose.
> 
> ...


i had to have gotten a defective pair. yes YMMV and preferences, all that. But my pair literally sounded like a tinny pair of $10 pair one might find in an airport giftshop. And that was with a perfect fit. loved how comfortable they were. Glad you like them.


----------



## Peddler

Spamateur said:


> If it makes you feel any better, I find the MW07 to sound slow, mushy and thick with an uneven treble response that prioritizes a distorted treble spike that resembles driver breakup. I've auditioned them three different times at three different stores now and can't get them out of my ears fast enough. Whenever I see the MW07 mentioned as the "consensus best sounding" I always refrain from commenting as more people seem to love them than not, but I also am in the minority here as I love the Mavin Air-X and have yet to find anything that matches its cohesiveness, clarity and distortion-free presentation.
> 
> Again, all due respect to those who love the MW07 as it works for y'all, but they're the one TWS that I haven't been remotely tempted to purchase.



I've got to agree regarding the Mavin Air - X. There's something very special about them. I've recently purchased the rather excellent Lypertek Tevi's and they pretty much match the Mavin when it comes to both sound quality and sound character. 

For those who have the Tevi's it's definitely worth performing the firmware and software update for them as the sound quality is significantly improved - even with the eq still set to flat.

Send Lypertek an email and they should send you a link to the software and update instructions.


----------



## cwill

cwill said:


> Yeah, doesn't work.


Update: That DID work! I thought I had already had my location on when trying. Thank you!


----------



## Sebulr

I recently bought a cheap pair of chi fi tws from amazon called ceppekky  h01 for £26.99 on sale.. Technically they were free due to Christmas vouchers. They have a 2000mah battery in the case and boast 5 hrs in the phones. And usb c charging. The case also tells you the percentage left on the case and each earphone, which is handy. Obviously the case isn't particularly small. I haven't fully tested them yet as I keep going back to my blons, so I can't vouch for the battery life.
Fit wise, they are really comfortable, and the tips are normal iem tips. I use extra large aftermarket tips with these and they fit in the case nicely. Sound wise they are slightly v shaped but not quite Harmon tuned. The bass and treble are not quite as forward. There is the usual 2 to 4k chifi peak. But the upper treble isn't as prominent. They sound quite similar to to my mifo 05,  but not quite as clear. Bass and sub bass are about the same, and doesn't bleed into the minds. Treble isn't particularly engaging but is quite a relaxed listen. I normally boost the sub bass a touch and reduce the lower treble like most of my chi fi. 

For £26.99 I'm not complaining. I haven't tested the ipx 67 rating, but it does mention in the manual, that water shorts, the touch controls and the pins, as expected. My mifo 05 turn off, for example if you get the pins wet in the shower.


----------



## Quicky32

I’m still having trouble and having to adjust my T1X during a simple workout, even just a simple treadmill walk.  I’ve tried several tips..maybe I should try a set with hooks.  Anything decent under $100?


----------



## stain

d3myz said:


> I don't know if you saw my post earlier this week, but Tranya is re-tuning the Rimor and the new version will be ready at the end of December. Ida is sending me another pair. I'm assuming that a lot of the tester feedback they got wasn't positive. (shrug)



Got an email from Tranya that the, “bass version,” of the Rimor are now expected mid-January.  I really wanted to like them, but the T1X and even my janky Soundcore Life Note have better lows.  Hopefully the updated Rimor add some bass and keep the great mids.


----------



## Spamateur

bronco1015 said:


> i had to have gotten a defective pair. yes YMMV and preferences, all that. But my pair literally sounded like a tinny pair of $10 pair one might find in an airport giftshop. And that was with a perfect fit. loved how comfortable they were. Glad you like them.



Yikes. I've noticed there is some variability to the sound on the XR using foam vs the supplied silicone tips (which I'm not a fan of) but that really diverges from my impressions. I'm assuming there was something wrong with the pair you got, especially since you said the fit was good. FWIW I'll probably be returning the XR as I don't find them to be an upgrade in sound over the X, plus the tiny case being unable to easily fit foam tips is a bit of dealbreaker.


----------



## Spamateur

I went back and tried the Nuarl N6 Pro for the last time before I box them up to send back. They're really promising, it's just a shame they're on the brighter side. Has anyone tried the N6 yet? I'm hoping they're the equivalent of the NT01AX in terms of sound. I'm worried that with the model split between the "flat" N6 Pro and the "fun" N6 that Nuarl didn't go too far to the extreme with the N6 being overly warm and bassy.


----------



## voicemaster

cwill said:


> Update: That DID work! I thought I had already had my location on when trying. Thank you!


Lol glad you figured it out.


----------



## tma6

Spamateur said:


> I went back and tried the Nuarl N6 Pro for the last time before I box them up to send back. They're really promising, it's just a shame they're on the brighter side. Has anyone tried the N6 yet? I'm hoping they're the equivalent of the NT01AX in terms of sound. I'm worried that with the model split between the "flat" N6 Pro and the "fun" N6 that Nuarl didn't go too far to the extreme with the N6 being overly warm and bassy.



Just curious, did you try eqing for bass w the n6 pro? They responded really well to just a Spotify eq imo. I think they sound amazing tbh, but def can be bright at times. Will be getting the n6 this week (probably Tuesday) so will be providing impressions and eventually a full review on them.


----------



## Spamateur

tma6 said:


> Just curious, did you try eqing for bass w the n6 pro? They responded really well to just a Spotify eq imo. I think they sound amazing tbh, but def can be bright at times. Will be getting the n6 this week (probably Tuesday) so will be providing impressions and eventually a full review on them.



Yeah I read your post about that yesterday and it piqued my interest. I don't use Spotify (Tidal user primarily) so I don't have a streaming app EQ to use, but TBH I also think that with Nuarl releasing 2 "flavors" of the N6 it might be worth trying the non-Pro model anyway since it's cheaper and might not need to worry about resorting to EQ.


----------



## tma6

Spamateur said:


> Yeah I read your post about that yesterday and it piqued my interest. I don't use Spotify (Tidal user primarily) so I don't have a streaming app EQ to use, but TBH I also think that with Nuarl releasing 2 "flavors" of the N6 it might be worth trying the non-Pro model anyway since it's cheaper and might not need to worry about resorting to EQ.



Yeah that's totally fair. I def think they warm up a bit after a few days of burn in, but there's still some harshness on a few songs in the mid-highs. I just think they have some of the best detail retrieval and tonality I've heard on a TWS so far, so I might be willing to try to get past it. Will let you know what I think of the n6 once I get them in.


----------



## Spamateur

tma6 said:


> Yeah that's totally fair. I def think they warm up a bit after a few days of burn in, but there's still some harshness on a few songs in the mid-highs. I just think they have some of the best detail retrieval and tonality I've heard on a TWS so far, so I might be willing to try to get past it. Will let you know what I think of the n6 once I get them in.



Looking forward to your impressions!


----------



## Rob E.

Quicky32 said:


> I’m still having trouble and having to adjust my T1X during a simple workout, even just a simple treadmill walk.  I’ve tried several tips..maybe I should try a set with hooks.  Anything decent under $100?



Like many here (I'd guess), I rotate a few different pairs of tws. The Fiil T1X were the first pair I've owned that actually shipped with interchangeable ear hooks. The smaller ones were already mounted out of the box so that's how I tried them. Have to tell you that the fit was perfect and I was surprised at just how well they stay in place. Fwiw, give it a shot.


----------



## Sam L

tma6 said:


> Yeah that's totally fair. I def think they warm up a bit after a few days of burn in, but there's still some harshness on a few songs in the mid-highs. I just think they have some of the best detail retrieval and tonality I've heard on a TWS so far, so I might be willing to try to get past it. Will let you know what I think of the n6 once I get them in.



Most likely the harshness will not be an issue for us older users.  As I started approaching 50, I hear sibilance less and less.


----------



## Francesco Montanari

I think something is going wrong in my new addiction


----------



## howdy

Spamateur said:


> Yeah I read your post about that yesterday and it piqued my interest. I don't use Spotify (Tidal user primarily) so I don't have a streaming app EQ to use, but TBH I also think that with Nuarl releasing 2 "flavors" of the N6 it might be worth trying the non-Pro model anyway since it's cheaper and might not need to worry about resorting to EQ.


Have you used UAPP with Tidal? UAPP is the only way I listen to Tidal now with my Android phone. It has Eq in the app as well.


----------



## Pro-Jules

If you can find headphones that sound they way you like em then you freed from the curse of needing eq.


----------



## clerkpalmer

howdy said:


> Have you used UAPP with Tidal? UAPP is the only way I listen to Tidal now with my Android phone. It has Eq in the app as well.


is there a viable system wide eq for iOS? I don’t use Spotify. None of Apple Music, tidal or amazon seem to offer an eq.


----------



## bronco1015

just read an article on the verge that Jabra is releasing an active variant of the 75T which will be $199.99. has IP57 rating, and comes in 6 colors.
navy, Copper black Amazon exclusive, Titanium Black Bestbuy exclusive; those 3 available next month. Gray will be released in march, and Sienna and mint in April.


----------



## clerkpalmer

These too: 

https://www.engadget.com/2020/01/05/shure-aonic-50-aonic-215-wireless/


----------



## howdy

clerkpalmer said:


> is there a viable system wide eq for iOS? I don’t use Spotify. None of Apple Music, tidal or amazon seem to offer an eq.


I'm not sure. I have looked a few times when using my iPod touch. The iPod touch is the only iOS that I own.


----------



## C_Lindbergh (Jan 5, 2020)

Shure "TWS" looks just like the FIO/TRN True wireless module.... Wonder if it got a regular MMXC connector or a proprietary.

Even tho the case didn't look portable at all. 

Just a shame that they just fitted 8 hours of battery life with all that space.


----------



## clerkpalmer

C_Lindbergh said:


> Shure "TWS" looks just like the FIO/TRN True wireless module.... Wonder if it got a regular MMXC connector or a proprietary.
> 
> Even tho the case didn't look portable at all.
> 
> Just a shame that they just fitted 8 hours of battery life with all that space.


It’s also a shame they opted to fit it with a reportedly average iem. Admittedly I don’t have the 215 but I’ve purchased a few shure iems and they never wowed me. It is more newsworthy to me because it shows 2020 may be the year the tws makes its way to more audiophile focused companies.


----------



## voicemaster

clerkpalmer said:


> It’s also a shame they opted to fit it with a reportedly average iem. Admittedly I don’t have the 215 but I’ve purchased a few shure iems and they never wowed me. It is more newsworthy to me because it shows 2020 may be the year the tws makes its way to more audiophile focused companies.


Can't say the se215 average anymore in 2020. Even my kz zsx sounds alot better.


----------



## Sam L (Jan 6, 2020)

Lol wanted a phone case but was far short of the $35 minimum for same day delivery... So I added a tws. Haha


----------



## Sam L

Anyone notice more than average driver flex in the fiil t1x? Kinda annoying.


----------



## voicemaster

Sam L said:


> Anyone notice more than average driver flex in the fiil t1x? Kinda annoying.



I noticed that too. Foam tips completely eliminate this tho.


----------



## Sam L

voicemaster said:


> I noticed that too. Foam tips completely eliminate this tho.



What foam tips are you using that will still fit in the case?


----------



## voicemaster (Jan 6, 2020)

I am using this foam tips and I just used my japanese kitchen knife and cut it about 3/4 of the length. If you have used newbee foam tips, I find this foam tips to be better because the surface of the tips is glossy instead of matte texture found in newbee. I find this to seal better than the newbee.
Earphone Tips F FEYCH Premium Replacement Earbud Tips Memory Foam Earphone Tips Blocking Noise Foam Tips Suit for 4.5-6.3mm Nozzle in-Ear Earphones with Storage Box(Small, 6 Pairs, Black) https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07SJSTB44/ref=cm_sw_r_wa_apa_i_EaTeEb58VWJYG


----------



## Sam L

voicemaster said:


> I am using this foam tips and I just used my japanese kitchen knife and cut it about 3/4 of the length. If you have used newbee foam tips, I find this foam tips to be better because the surface of the tips is glossy instead of matte texture found in newbee. I find this to seal better than the newbee.
> Earphone Tips F FEYCH Premium Replacement Earbud Tips Memory Foam Earphone Tips Blocking Noise Foam Tips Suit for 4.5-6.3mm Nozzle in-Ear Earphones with Storage Box(Small, 6 Pairs, Black) https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07SJSTB44/ref=cm_sw_r_wa_apa_i_EaTeEb58VWJYG



Ah. I've got plenty of foam tips I can chop up. Thx. Does it still fit in the case easily with the foam tips on?


----------



## bronco1015

clerkpalmer said:


> These too:
> https://www.engadget.com/2020/01/05/shure-aonic-50-aonic-215-wireless/
> https://www.engadget.com/2020/01/05/shure-aonic-50-aonic-215-wireless/


Base a pair off the sound of the SE535 and i'll definitely be interested. Curious about those headphones though...


----------



## bronco1015

Sam L said:


> Anyone notice more than average driver flex in the fiil t1x? Kinda annoying.


Yes actually, I was wearing them while cleaning today and noticed in the left one only. And it's pretty bad.


----------



## voicemaster

Sam L said:


> Ah. I've got plenty of foam tips I can chop up. Thx. Does it still fit in the case easily with the foam tips on?


Yes, I cut only maybe like 2-3mm from the back of the tip (the side that attached to the nozzle) and the t1x fit the case just fine even with Large size foam tips (same brand, but I use Medium now).


----------



## voicemaster

bronco1015 said:


> Yes actually, I was wearing them while cleaning today and noticed in the left one only. And it's pretty bad.



Yea, they don't have pressure reliever imho. If you can use foam tips, I highly suggest you use it.


----------



## bronco1015 (Jan 6, 2020)

voicemaster said:


> Yea, they don't have pressure reliever imho. If you can use foam tips, I highly suggest you use it.


i appreciate the suggestion, i have rarely found a foam tip that works well for me. My ears usually get pressurized/plugged. . The Shures i got a few years ago came with some really small foam tips, maybe i'll give those a shot as they're still sealed.


----------



## igor0203

Sam L said:


> @Floris888  -- Sorry, I was being a bit facetious there. (actually meant to reply with an honest answer right away, but ended up hitting the road w/ family.)
> 
> The last 6 months have been a renaissance of sorts for TWS earphones with brisk product development, resulting in constant new product introductions continually. This has resulted in raising the overall quality of chi-fi TWS earphones. If you were in the market a 1.5 year ago for some TWS's in the $20 to $40 USD range, you would end up with something not very satisfying from a music standpoint -- pretty much equivalent to sub $10 iems (and not as good the Monoprice 8320s, remember those!).
> 
> ...



Would you share some TWS which fits 20-40USD range and has decent SQ? I have Syllable S101 but I do find them mediocre, can I find anything better SQ wise withing this price bracket?


----------



## georgelai57

One dollar shy of $1000
https://www.digitaltrends.com/home-...s-earbuds-anc-dolby-atmos-soundbars-ces-2020/


----------



## voicemaster

igor0203 said:


> Would you share some TWS which fits 20-40USD range and has decent SQ? I have Syllable S101 but I do find them mediocre, can I find anything better SQ wise withing this price bracket?


Fiil t1x. It is $33.99 on amazon right now.


----------



## chinmie

to buy or not to buy? hmmm... 

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000340183201.html


----------



## Caipirina

Francesco Montanari said:


> I think something is going wrong in my new addiction


Yes, you still have order in chaos


----------



## Caipirina

In 4+ years ordering from AliExpress, this switcheroo is a first, and I am pretty certain this is a deliberate attempt of ‘getting away with it’ ... so far seller offered me a 5$ refund. Which I refuse. Send real thing or full amount back! Thought these kind of shady practices were a thing of the past.


----------



## DigDub

Bright sounding. Have to eq the highs down.


----------



## webvan

voicemaster said:


> I am using this foam tips and I just used my japanese kitchen knife and cut it about 3/4 of the length. If you have used newbee foam tips, I find this foam tips to be better because the surface of the tips is glossy instead of matte texture found in newbee. I find this to seal better than the newbee.
> Earphone Tips F FEYCH Premium Replacement Earbud Tips Memory Foam Earphone Tips Blocking Noise Foam Tips Suit for 4.5-6.3mm Nozzle in-Ear Earphones with Storage Box(Small, 6 Pairs, Black) https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07SJSTB44/ref=cm_sw_r_wa_apa_i_EaTeEb58VWJYG



I was also looking at "glossy" foam tips as I liked the version that came with the Jabra Elite Sport for isolation (and grip) and in fact it seems that "New Bee" also make some : https://www.amazon.co.uk/Replacement-New-Bee-Earbuds-4-5mm-6-3mm-S-M-L/dp/B07RXN1HGG that look a lot like the FEYCH except they're only available as a S/M/L combo kit.


----------



## ppolonen

Using Apple AirPods Pro for traveling, commuting, watching youtube etc. The sound quality is also good but the key feature is convenience. Practically stopped using my 3.5mm Shure IEMs after APP.


----------



## Rob E.

Caipirina said:


> In 4+ years ordering from AliExpress, this switcheroo is a first, and I am pretty certain this is a deliberate attempt of ‘getting away with it’ ... so far seller offered me a 5$ refund. Which I refuse. Send real thing or full amount back! Thought these kind of shady practices were a thing of the past.



Appears to be a cheap (excuse me, I mean,_ inexpensive _pair) of tws that you've purchased. So how do you know what you received (by accident, or on purpose), is worse than what you ordered? Might it be better, or a mistake in your favor? How high can expectations be for $20. bucks? Did you try them? Just curious.


----------



## cwill

Sam L said:


> Anyone notice more than average driver flex in the fiil t1x? Kinda annoying.


So pardon my ignorance, but what exactly is driver flex? Aren't drivers supposed to move (flex) to create bass?


----------



## Caipirina

Rob E. said:


> Appears to be a cheap (excuse me, I mean,_ inexpensive _pair) of tws that you've purchased. So how do you know what you received (by accident, or on purpose), is worse than what you ordered? Might it be better, or a mistake in your favor? How high can expectations be for $20. bucks? Did you try them? Just curious.



What I ordered were the Whizzer T2, which scarbir rates 4/5 in sound quality. They usually sell for 35$ on AliExpress, but I thought I found a bargain (I got lucky before with the Whizzer B6, which usually sell for 70+$, but I snagged a pair for 44$ and received the real deal) 

What I received is the same model as the Alwup i9 which I already own in Black, they usually sell around 20$ and are only OK. Scarbir describes them correctly as cheap looking and only 3/5 in sound and 2/5 in comfort, build, battery life ...


----------



## SoundChoice

voicemaster said:


> I noticed that too. Foam tips completely eliminate this tho.


But do foams fit in the case


----------



## Rob E.

Caipirina said:


> What I ordered were the Whizzer T2, which scarbir rates 4/5 in sound quality.  ...



Oh! Sorry, my bad. Didn't look to deeply before I posted. Hope you get it all sorted out to your satisfaction.


----------



## Caipirina

Rob E. said:


> Oh! Sorry, my bad. Didn't look to deeply before I posted. Hope you get it all sorted out to your satisfaction.


i could have labeled them more clearly in the original post. One has to admit that to the untrained eye, those look somewhat similar


----------



## clerkpalmer

Looks like the 1more ANC releases on 1/28 in the US.  They are available in stock on HiFi Go as well.  I was thinking of giving them a run but I can't find any kind of sweat proofing referenced on the website.  Anyone see anything about that anywhere?  That would be a deal breaker.


----------



## Caipirina (Jan 6, 2020)

2 more sets that were waiting in my holiday mail. So far only checked if they are working (they do). More details later, but I am a bit jet lagged and seems like I caught the sniffles on the plane ...


----------



## Sebulr

igor0203 said:


> Would you share some TWS which fits 20-40USD range and has decent SQ? I have Syllable S101 but I do find them mediocre, can I find anything better SQ wise withing this price bracket?



I quite like my ceppekky h01. They are £26 currently. I posted my impressions a few pages back. They aren't great but for that price, I'm impressed.


----------



## jlo mein

Caipirina said:


> 2 more sets that were waiting in my holiday mail. So far only checked if they are working (they do). More details later, but I am a bit jet lagged and seems like I caught the sniffles on the plane ...



Interesting your KZ S1 look teal, but official pics look forest green.  Would prefer teal.


----------



## voicemaster

SoundChoice said:


> But do foams fit in the case


You have to cut them like 2-3mm from the base and it will fit. Without modding, you can fit it but it wont be flush.


----------



## clerkpalmer

Confirmed with 1more no sweat proofing on the upcoming ANC TW. Bummer. Seems like an incredible misfire but hey what do I know.


----------



## C_Lindbergh

https://www.whathifi.com/news/techn...-headphones-market-with-noise-cancelling-pair


----------



## Spamateur

howdy said:


> Have you used UAPP with Tidal? UAPP is the only way I listen to Tidal now with my Android phone. It has Eq in the app as well.



Thanks for the rec, I really appreciate this and will keep it in mind for the future, but right now I prefer to only use EQ when it's included in a dedicated app for the specific TWS model. Nuarl has the non-pro N6 model with a different tuning, so I'd rather just hear that model than go through extra steps (and pay for an app) only to have a limited EQ on a model whose base tuning isn't to my taste to begin with.


----------



## frix

Hi. Can someone compare the sennheiser momentum tw and the lypertek tevi in terms of comfort and size. I had the sennheiser. While their comfort was tolerable for some time, I sold them in the end. They were just a tad to big for a flush fit.


----------



## SaveTheMantaRays (Jan 6, 2020)

Received the NUARL N6.  Been fiddling around for about an hour.

These are great.  Nozzle bore is bigger than most TWS though, so hard to find tips to fit, for tip rolling.  Found some old Comply original micro foams that enhance the
experience a lot, and also helps stabilize the fit.  The overall size of the buds are much bigger than T1X and MPOW, and way bigger than Anbes 359.

Doubt I could sleep on my side with these.  Anbes is easy to sleep, and T1X is even doable.

I really wish they came with more fins and different types of tips.  But the packaging IMO is way above the unboxing experience of T5 or T1X.

The buds themselves are great looking.  And so far the bluetooth connection is fantastic.

Overall the sound seems great for a TWS.  More sound review to come with more listening time. Definitely a hit above on overall clarity of music.

The biggest question will be, are the N6s worth $130, compared to the $40 (ish) price tag of T1X or T5/M5.


----------



## HiFlight

I just received the Mavin XR-Qi today but it is likely that I will be returning them as the announcements are not in English as has been previously reported.  The other two dealbreakers are that the stabilizers must be removed in order to fit the phones in the charging case and IMO, the sound quality is not as good as the Air-X.  They seem to lack the air and dynamics that I hear with the Air-X, sounding rather thick and uninvolving  in comparison.  I can say that the case is very tiny and build quality is more impressive than the Air-X but in the end, the sound doesn't warrant them being keepers.


----------



## jant71 (Jan 6, 2020)

C_Lindbergh said:


> https://www.whathifi.com/news/techn...-headphones-market-with-noise-cancelling-pair



Technic-ly the same company(see what I did there )

Panasonic has announced two new pairs of true wireless earbuds at CES 2020 in Las Vegas, both of which come with "industry-leading noise cancelation," according to the company.

The RZ-S500W and RZS300W, use a hybrid active noise cancellation technology, which combines "FeedFoward Noise Cancelling, Feedback Noise Cancelling, and an Analog/Digital Processing hybrid." These technologies work together to reduce noise generated both inside and outside the earcups, in theory resulting in an uninterrupted listening experience.

Panasonic says that this combination results in a noise cancellation performance "never before experienced in the true wireless category" – it's a bold claim from the company, which isn't exactly a leader in the field of audio.





Assuming the Tecnics should sound better and cost more than the Panasonic variant.

Also saw this in it's case...




Big but at least there is a case that holds 3 more recharges and seems to be able fit other earphones than the 215. $279 price tag is pretty high. Would be nice if they made a cheaper version that came without the 215. And they should have made it more of a flip open case than a zipper case. TW is magnets and perhaps button latches not zippers.


----------



## bronco1015

frix said:


> Hi. Can someone compare the sennheiser momentum tw and the lypertek tevi in terms of comfort and size. I had the sennheiser. While their comfort was tolerable for some time, I sold them in the end. They were just a tad to big for a flush fit.


Imo, the tevis being the shape they are, could be less comfortable than the MTW. That could just be my experience though. While i got a great seal with the tevis and they isolate pretty well imo for passive isolation, they stuck out a bit mor than i liked and after a while maybe 2 plus hours, i felt like something was trying to weigh my ears down. i think while the MTWs are big, they're weighted well and i can wear them for about any length of time.


----------



## Caipirina

jant71 said:


> Technic-ly the same company(see what I did there )
> 
> Panasonic has announced two new pairs of true wireless earbuds at CES 2020 in Las Vegas, both of which come with "industry-leading noise cancelation," according to the company.
> 
> ...



I wonder if Bose is going to show their new ANC TWS on CES ... with price and hopefully rls date .. that is the one I am waiting for ..


----------



## C_Lindbergh (Jan 6, 2020)

So far nothing really stands out imo of all the news from CES.

* We've seen ANC before
* No battery improvements
* No special codecs like APTX LL/HD/Adaptive

The only mildly interesting feature is Klipsch claim of their AI software, even tho I'm sure it will be underwhelming af.

The Shure approach is interesting, maybe the Gen 2 product of that type will be the way to go. With all that space I just want better battery life and the newest Qualcomm chip that supports multi point and APTX adaptive.


----------



## bronco1015

Caipirina said:


> I wonder if Bose is going to show their new ANC TWS on CES ... with price and hopefully rls date .. that is the one I am waiting for ..


Me too. I never took bose seriously because i was so underwhelmed after hearing some QC2s forever ago. Then i got the qc35 a couple years back and have been pleasantly surprised.
i held off getting some QC20s and then the QC30, heres hoping the TWE have steller ANC, call quality and an eq.


----------



## chinmie

jant71 said:


> Technic-ly the same company(see what I did there )
> 
> Panasonic has announced two new pairs of true wireless earbuds at CES 2020 in Las Vegas, both of which come with "industry-leading noise cancelation," according to the company.
> 
> ...



is that Shure detachable like the Fostex TM2? because if it's not, i lost interest already because i don't enjoy the 215 sound much


----------



## Caipirina

bronco1015 said:


> Me too. I never took bose seriously because i was so underwhelmed after hearing some QC2s forever ago. Then i got the qc35 a couple years back and have been pleasantly surprised.
> i held off getting some QC20s and then the QC30, heres hoping the TWE have steller ANC, call quality and an eq.



So far I have been very impressed by all the Bose I have, the SSF for running, if only they had ANC. The QC20 and QC35 are frequently used. Obviously I like the Bose house sound. Now let's see what their ANC TWS offering will be like ... Apple has shown that it is very possible ...


----------



## FYLegend

Well I'm hoping this year we'll get more budget ANC over-ears that have both AptX and USB-C charging. For most of last year we only had that dodgy line from Bluedio. I've been enjoying the Dyplay Urban Traveller 2's but it has a number of issues that prevent me from highly recommending it. The revised TaoTronics SoundSurge 46 and Tribit QuietPlus look promising though.

I'm disappointed but unsurprised by Shure's design. Just shows how they fail to adapt to change with the 215 having an "aged" reputation in the IEM community. Seems like these other brands like Panasonic and Shure want to take on the Sonys, but there's a certain old-schoolness image they need to get around from.


----------



## C_Lindbergh (Jan 6, 2020)

Doesn't seem like Sennheiser is showcasing the MTW 2.0 :/

They've just annonced several new BT head/earphones, but no true wireless

https://www.hifi.nl/artikel/28596/Sennheiser-presenteert-nieuwe-producten-op-CES-in-Las-Vegas.html

Not true wireless, but the CX 350BT sounds promising (if they can deliver decent SQ):

*Aptx/APTX LL
*EQ
*Multi Pairing
*10 hour battery life
*USB C (not common for this product segment)
*100 EUR


----------



## Inear

clerkpalmer said:


> Confirmed with 1more no sweat proofing on the upcoming ANC TW. Bummer. Seems like an incredible misfire but hey what do I know.



According to Gamsky there IPX5 rated which is good for sweat proof.


----------



## clerkpalmer

Inear said:


> According to Gamsky there IPX5 rated which is good for sweat proof.



Strange. Hifigo said the same thing. Nothing mentioned in the marketing materials. 1more USA said no ip rating. I guess it wouldn’t be the first time a manufacturer didn’t know about its own product.


----------



## clerkpalmer

Copy and paste from 1more:

Our ANC TWS does not have an IPX rating. However we will be releasing a TWS Sport in 2020 with an iPX rating of 6.


----------



## C_Lindbergh

Interesting to say the least!

Gesture control (programmable gestures head, voice etc)


----------



## Mouseman

jant71 said:


> Technic-ly the same company(see what I did there )
> 
> Panasonic has announced two new pairs of true wireless earbuds at CES 2020 in Las Vegas, both of which come with "industry-leading noise cancelation," according to the company.
> 
> ...


I saw those. I'm amazed that big part goes behind the ear. I'm not sure I could deal with that.


----------



## XGUGU

New Bluetooth codec to replace SBC and improve SQ


----------



## hifi80sman

clerkpalmer said:


> Strange. Hifigo said the same thing. Nothing mentioned in the marketing materials. 1more USA said no ip rating. I guess it wouldn’t be the first time a manufacturer didn’t know about its own product.


It was probably some sales rep that told the early reviewers.  Some of the sales guys on my team say stuff all the time that's not true, so I have to go and do damage control and hope the clients don't jump ship on us.


----------



## clerkpalmer

Curiosity got the best of me. Taking a flyer on the 1more. Hifigo claims they checked with 1more and said they do have sweatproofing.  They said “at least IPX4”. Lol. We shall see.


----------



## hifi80sman

C_Lindbergh said:


> Interesting to say the least!
> 
> Gesture control (programmable gestures head, voice etc)


Those look promising.  Starting to look like the T5 was really a Beta...


----------



## hifi80sman

clerkpalmer said:


> Curiosity got the best of me. Taking a flyer on the 1more. Hifigo claims they checked with 1more and said they do have sweatproofing.  They said “at least IPX4”. Lol. We shall see.


At least IPX4?  LOL!  Now that's some *serious *testing!  It's like saying the low gas warning gives me at least 50 miles...super-comforting, really.


----------



## clerkpalmer

hifi80sman said:


> At least IPX4?  LOL!  Now that's some *serious *testing!  It's like saying the low gas warning gives me at least 50 miles...super-comforting, really.


Tell me about it. I’ve had an itchy trigger finger for a few days. The 1more look the most interesting to me. Hybrid drivers plus ANC and 1more delivers good sq. I had a long chat with hifigo and they have been responsive and seem to have a direct line to 1more. It’s a little risky but it was that or the N6 pro and they aren’t really doing it for me.


----------



## C_Lindbergh (Jan 6, 2020)

Wow, so the audio will be compressed to half of thr SBC whilst giving better SQ...

That should mean drastically improved battery life. In theory it means true wireless devices with let's say 8 hours of battery life using the SCB codect should reach 16 hours!

Also multi point connections seems to be improved:

"Multi-stream Bluetooth audio will also make it easier for a single Bluetooth headset to connect simultaneously to, say, a phone and a PC, "

The lower compression rate should also mean better latency?

If they solve the 3 big issues, battery life, multiple connections and latency whilst maintaining better SQ it will be freaking amazing.

Also unlike qualcomms aptx codecs the LC3 will be standard in all new Bluetooth devices.

This could truly be the big game changer when it comes to wireless audio!

Only downside is that it seems to be hardware dependent. For both the transmitter and receiver...


----------



## gibletzor

Bomaker Sifi will be an Amazon lightning deal this afternoon.  3PM for prime members.  Just fyi in case anyone was waiting on a deal to get them.


----------



## sarv

.

Bring using them for 2 weeks now, pretty much agree with everything he says, but like I said before finding a right fit has been hard for me, as there's a whine when they move around cos of ANC. 
2. Was on a plane yesterday, they removed the engine noice, but not like headphones.
3. Apps buggy as hell for me, have to sign in everytime I wanna change something.
4. Can't change the voice prompt to English.
5. Wish I could hold the touch pad and pass through get activated.


----------



## webvan

jant71 said:


> Technic-ly the same company(see what I did there )
> 
> Panasonic has announced two new pairs of true wireless earbuds at CES 2020 in Las Vegas, both of which come with "industry-leading noise cancelation," according to the company.
> 
> ...



"FeedFoward Noise Cancelling, Feedback Noise Cancelling, and an Analog/Digital Processing hybrid."

The first two are pretty standard for any kind of decent ANC, the third one...dunno, seems pretty obvious that there is some Analog/Digital processing going on, there HAS to be


----------



## Firevortex

sarv said:


> .
> 
> Bring using them for 2 weeks now, pretty much agree with everything he says, but like I said before finding a right fit has been hard for me, as there's a whine when they move around cos of ANC.
> 2. Was on a plane yesterday, they removed the engine noice, but not like headphones.
> ...





according to 1more international the "international" English version won't get shipped out to suppliers until mid jan. but if what he says is true on that video this will replace my WF1000XM3s.


----------



## clerkpalmer

Firevortex said:


> according to 1more international the "international" English version won't get shipped out to suppliers until mid jan. but if what he says is true on that video this will replace my WF1000XM3s.


Thanks for pointing these out guys. I cancelled my order.  Gotta have English for 200 bucks. I’ll just wait for them.


----------



## Mouseman

Fiil T1X is on sale at Amazon for $34 right now. That's even cheaper than the last Lightning Deal I picked them up on, and this is "Limited Time" so probably not just a few hours. They are really good, and the app makes them even better. SQ is great with different EQ settings, and they connect faster than any other TWS I own.


----------



## mikp

sarv said:


> .
> 
> Bring using them for 2 weeks now, pretty much agree with everything he says, but like I said before finding a right fit has been hard for me, as there's a whine when they move around cos of ANC.
> 2. Was on a plane yesterday, they removed the engine noice, but not like headphones.
> ...




he's a truly independent content creator


----------



## d3myz

karloil said:


> It doesn't have an app George, so no firmware update here.


Incorrect, It does have and app. that is in beta. I believe there is a firmware update as well. 


georgelai57 said:


> I must have been mistaken. Thank you.


You saw correctly. I don't know the ETA but all the feedback i've seen has been very positive. I'm thinking of diving back in myself.


----------



## d3myz

mikp said:


> he's a truly independent content creator


Like paying a couple of clowns to come to a kids birthday party.


----------



## d3myz (Jan 7, 2020)

SoundChoice said:


> How do the APP compare to the Sonys?


 They don't compare in sound quality, the Sony's are far better. In every other area, besides battery life, the APP is a clear winner. The transparency mode is much better and the ANC is also better. The siri integration of course is excellent and the APP switches apple devices so easily it's really incredible. However i'm sending my APPs back for replacement, They have some issues with the case and I have some lag and connection issues ever since getting an apple watch. They need a firmware update or something, but overall I use the every day. 



david8613 said:


> Anyone try these?
> 
> Wireless Earbuds,Bluetooth Earbuds 5.0 in-Ear Stereo Headphones with 2200mAh Slide Aluminum Charging Case,Bluetooth Earbuds IPX7 Waterproof,Free to Switch Single/Twin Mode with 100Hours Playtime Utaxo https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07VZM7RN7/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_i_LWNdEbFV7WGR1


I had them for a couple days. Sound was underwhelming, unfortunately. Utaxo stuff just kind of sucks, which is weird because they are a Sunvalley Tech company, (Boltune, TaoTronics) Their other brands make some good stuff. I bought some boltune over the ear noise canceling cans ($65) and they are fabulous for the price, but I liked the Utaxo color scheme so I ordered them and they sounded nothing alike even though aesthetically they were identical.

I've also tried a bunch of Taotronics stuff and overall it's good. Except their $60 ANC cans, ANC is great, but the sound is garbage.


----------



## d3myz

tma6 said:


> Yo the n6 pro def have the ability to dole out punchy bass that’s super clean. I’m using a strong bass eq and these have responded great. Also def worth lowering the treble if you’re sensitive to it. Treble can be a bit sharp but these are absolutely one of the most detailed sets I’ve heard in the TWS space. Here’s the Spotify eq I’m using:


Just out of curiosity, how do they sound with older music? I noticed in my testing of earbuds that a lot of newer music has overproduced highs that you only find in digital recordings. For example, I decided to listen to an older Bon Jovi songs on my Air Pods and it sounded like hot garbage, but on the XM3 it was much better, then some Zeppelin and straight forward to the Weeknd and Meraba. Same on the T1x. The newer stuff has highs that can make your ears bleed, if the don't have enough bass. I'm not familiar with the tracks your listening to and it's really all about what your going to listen to on them. My T1x has so much more bass after I burnt them in for 2000 minutes. I find my self turning them to default eq to listen to books with male narrators.


----------



## d3myz

bronco1015 said:


> For anyone who owns the Fiil t1x, is it just me; or do these open up significantly after a while. They are really impressive imo, especially with metal and rock.


Totally, Mine have a LOT of bass on bass EQ. when I got them, they were so sharp I could hardly use them.


LordToneeus said:


> They definitely did for me as well.


Same, I just burnt them in for a week. Amazing result.


----------



## d3myz

ngd3 said:


> That bass boost is so ridiculous. Would be curious to see them measured with different app EQs used
> 
> @crinacle any chance you were using the Soundcore app that has EQ presets?


What version of the L2p's is this? There are currently 3.


----------



## d3myz

tma6 said:


> I hesitate to say audiophile grade, but as of right now the n6 pro are the closest that I’ve heard to an audiophile grade TWS. I feel hesitant only bc I know sound is subjective and there are those that might not love some of their brightness, but pound for pound these are one of the best if not the best TWS I’ve heard to date. They have the best detail retrieval, timbre, and imaging of any TWS I’ve tried. Also with some bass eq and burn in, they are not bass light, and the bass is insanely clean and balanced while also having awesome extension and satisfying punchiness. I want to give it one more day before a full review where I’ll try to describe the sound in detail. All I can say as of right now is that these are a fantastic set not just of TWS but IEMs in general.


Both my N6 and N6 pro come today. I'm super excited. I'm not an "Audiophile" sound signature guy, so I'm interested to see if I dislike them as much as I did the Tevi.  In all seriousness though, If they have more bass than the Tevi and have the clarity of the T1x and don't sound slow and warm like the NTO1A, i'm sure I'll love them.


----------



## d3myz

Spamateur said:


> I went back and tried the Nuarl N6 Pro for the last time before I box them up to send back. They're really promising, it's just a shame they're on the brighter side. Has anyone tried the N6 yet? I'm hoping they're the equivalent of the NT01AX in terms of sound. I'm worried that with the model split between the "flat" N6 Pro and the "fun" N6 that Nuarl didn't go too far to the extreme with the N6 being overly warm and bassy.


I found my NT01A's to be way to warm and not detailed enough after going back heavily burned in T1x and L2pro. I was super sad, because I really loved them when I got them. I was hoping tey would brighten up over time but the didn't. Very reminiscent  of the 1more stylish.


----------



## d3myz

cwill said:


> So pardon my ignorance, but what exactly is driver flex? Aren't drivers supposed to move (flex) to create bass?


It's the crackling in the driver you hear when you put in ANY TWS that's sealed and doesn't have pressure relief. I honestly don't know why people complain about it, unless you can hear it when you are moving or playing music.


----------



## d3myz

Inear said:


> According to Gamsky there IPX5 rated which is good for sweat proof.



I trust Gamesky like I trust a guy selling speakers out of a van in a parking lot.


----------



## d3myz

clerkpalmer said:


> Curiosity got the best of me. Taking a flyer on the 1more. Hifigo claims they checked with 1more and said they do have sweatproofing.  They said “at least IPX4”. Lol. We shall see.


but....but...but.. Gamesky said....


----------



## clerkpalmer

d3myz said:


> but....but...but.. Gamesky said....



Cancelled my order.  Between the IPX issue and the no English version, it's too much to swallow. I messaged 1more for a more definitive answer on the IP rating.  I really think these look compelling and could be an APP killer.


----------



## LordToneeus

I picked up the white Earfun Free's for around $40 because I wanted a pair to use in the shower (since I can't get any waterproof speaker to sound even halfway decent during a shower).  These are IPX 7, usb-c with wireless charging, and I am totally happy with the sound.  It's like a cleaner, clearer Ofusho F16: plenty of bass, though it doesn't muddy things up.  They are a bit on the fat side, but bear in mind I have a pea-sized head too.  
  

Now to test those waterproof claims.


----------



## d3myz

d3myz said:


> but....but...but.. Gamesky said....


I would of done the same. I've bought things based on Gamesky's videos before, but I already know him and that el jeffe dude get paid to give positive reviews, so everything needs to be taken in that light and I don't like his tastes in sound signatures.


----------



## d3myz

LordToneeus said:


> I picked up the white Earfun Free's for around $40 because I wanted a pair to use in the shower (since I can't get any waterproof speaker to sound even halfway decent during a shower).  These are IPX 7, usb-c with wireless charging, and I am totally happy with the sound.  It's like a cleaner, clearer Ofusho F16: plenty of bass, though it doesn't muddy things up.  They are a bit on the fat side, but bear in mind I have a pea-sized head too.
> 
> Now to test those waterproof claims.


I LOVE My earfuns! I have white and black.


----------



## d3myz

So, I got my Spunky Beats, Finally. Got to say they sound pretty dang good, but the Touch sensors SUCK! they are either overly sensitive or they don't work at all w/o putting them back in the case. Great small form factor, excellent sound and a real leather strap, Tronsmart, you spoil me.  I really like how small they are and they fit almost completely flush so I can use both when sleeping. Unfortunately, I find myself at a point now where all I want to use is my APPs for the transparency and ANC, my twins are 3 and they are constantly screaming and making non-stop noise. I work at home so i pretty much have them in all day and it's a hassle to take them out. with the XM3 I can't hear what anyone is saying anyway. the ambient mode is almost worthless for talking IMO, I really hope sony releases a firmware to boost the mics in them. Anyway, happy Tuesday.


----------



## d3myz

Anyone know if these are worth $38?


----------



## SaveTheMantaRays

After more time with the Nuarl N6, I already don't think I can return them.

They sound incredible!  Might sell most of my wired stuff.

I am using old Comply Sports, not the newer sport pro versions.  The old ones seem to me, way more squishy and easier to fit most ear canals properly.

The foam tips maybe a game charger with these, next level next level.  The provided tips are not bad.  Still Next level from the $25-$50 range.

Love the physical buttons on the Nuarl.

There is just this crisp full encompassing sound signature.  The inner ear and outer ear get some love.

I am not using any filters or EQing or tweaks of any kind.  It automatically connects via AptX on Samsung Note8.  And the provided tuning is great out of the box.

More to come....


----------



## tma6 (Jan 7, 2020)

d3myz said:


> Just out of curiosity, how do they sound with older music? I noticed in my testing of earbuds that a lot of newer music has overproduced highs that you only find in digital recordings. For example, I decided to listen to an older Bon Jovi songs on my Air Pods and it sounded like hot garbage, but on the XM3 it was much better, then some Zeppelin and straight forward to the Weeknd and Meraba. Same on the T1x. The newer stuff has highs that can make your ears bleed, if the don't have enough bass. I'm not familiar with the tracks your listening to and it's really all about what your going to listen to on them. My T1x has so much more bass after I burnt them in for 2000 minutes. I find my self turning them to default eq to listen to books with male narrators.



Yeah these sound awesome with all music imo! Just played Hall and Oates' "I Can't Go For That" and you hear everythingggg. Realism on the instruments and detail in vocals is absolutely top notch for a TWS. I'm writing full review today and should be getting the n6s later today for comparison.


----------



## C_Lindbergh

SaveTheMantaRays said:


> After more time with the Nuarl N6, I already don't think I can return them.
> 
> They sound incredible!  Might sell most of my wired stuff.
> 
> ...



But no Ambient Mode right? :/


----------



## vladzakhar

Can somebody compare N6 and N6 pro sound wise. I got N6 pro and I love it. Already return my APPs, cause N6 pros sounds much better and they have crazy battery life. Now I am curious if N6 sounds better then N6 pro.


----------



## tma6

d3myz said:


> Both my N6 and N6 pro come today. I'm super excited. I'm not an "Audiophile" sound signature guy, so I'm interested to see if I dislike them as much as I did the Tevi.  In all seriousness though, If they have more bass than the Tevi and have the clarity of the T1x and don't sound slow and warm like the NTO1A, i'm sure I'll love them.



The N6 Pro sound significantly better than the Tevi don't worry! They def need some burn in time to warm up, but they are clean, quick, super detailed, and respond great to a little bass eq


----------



## SaveTheMantaRays

I am not worried about ambient mode.

If you have the right tips, is what matters to me.

I went on a 3.5 mile walk yesterday with them. They isolate very well, but there was still a sense of my surroundings.  I think it is because of the size of these buds


----------



## tma6

vladzakhar said:


> Can somebody compare N6 and N6 pro sound wise. I got N6 pro and I love it. Already return my APPs, cause N6 pros sounds much better and they have crazy battery life. Now I am curious if N6 sounds better then N6 pro.



Will be doing this as soon as I get N6 later this eve!


----------



## hifi80sman

d3myz said:


> I trust Gamesky like I trust a guy selling speakers out of a van in a parking lot.


Dude, some guy walked up to me at WalMart and tried to sell me some Beats Studio3s for $100.  I'm sure they came with a warranty and a 30-day return policy.


----------



## d3myz

tma6 said:


> Yeah these sound awesome with all music imo! Just played Hall and Oates' "I Can't Go For That" and you hear everythingggg. Realism on the instruments and detail in vocals is absolutely top notch for a TWS. I'm writing full review today and should be getting the n6s later today for comparison.


Great! Thank you! Even more pumped.


----------



## Samplingentropy

Facebook keeps bombing me with tws banners/commercials.
The latest is the "trackbuds" 
Looks like a smart band with tws's under the display/lid.
Did anyone try them?

Since my tronsmart's got sent back I'm still looking for my first tws.
Main use is still just on my bike out on the trails so cheaper is better. =P


----------



## clerkpalmer (Jan 7, 2020)

All right, I am giving the MiFo 07s a try.  Specs look good. Dual BA drivers (will there be enough bass?), IPX7 and some form of noise cancelling.


----------



## hifi80sman

d3myz said:


> but....but...but.. Gamesky said....


That silly guy!


clerkpalmer said:


> All right, I am giving the MiFi 07s a try.  Specs look good. Dual BA drivers (will there be enough base?), IPX7 and some form of noise cancelling.


Let us know.  I've been eyeing those as well, but just haven't pulled the trigger yet.


----------



## d3myz

hifi80sman said:


> Dude, some guy walked up to me at WalMart and tried to sell me some Beats Studio3s for $100.  I'm sure they came with a warranty and a 30-day return policy.


Was it Gamesky?


----------



## clerkpalmer

d3myz said:


> Was it Gamesky?



He's back at it:


----------



## clerkpalmer

hifi80sman said:


> That silly guy!
> 
> Let us know.  I've been eyeing those as well, but just haven't pulled the trigger yet.


Hmm, I'm seeing these on ebay for about $99 bucks everywhere.


----------



## cwill

d3myz said:


> So, I got my Spunky Beats, Finally. Got to say they sound pretty dang good, but the Touch sensors SUCK! they are either overly sensitive or they don't work at all w/o putting them back in the case. Great small form factor, excellent sound and a real leather strap, Tronsmart, you spoil me.  I really like how small they are and they fit almost completely flush so I can use both when sleeping. Unfortunately, I find myself at a point now where all I want to use is my APPs for the transparency and ANC, my twins are 3 and they are constantly screaming and making non-stop noise. I work at home so i pretty much have them in all day and it's a hassle to take them out. with the XM3 I can't hear what anyone is saying anyway. the ambient mode is almost worthless for talking IMO, I really hope sony releases a firmware to boost the mics in them. Anyway, happy Tuesday.


So...are you having CONSTANT cut-outs and actual disconnect-reconnects for no reason whatsoever?


----------



## assassin10000

cwill said:


> So...are you having CONSTANT cut-outs and actual disconnect-reconnects for no reason whatsoever?



Mine have great connection. I can leave my phone on the charger in my bedroom and walk outside and still have music, starts cutting halfway down the driveway. Atleast 40-50 feet and a couple walls.

Just lacking in battery life.


----------



## cwill (Jan 7, 2020)

assassin10000 said:


> Mine have great connection. I can leave my phone on the charger in my bedroom and walk outside and still have music, starts cutting halfway down the driveway. Atleast 40-50 feet and a couple walls.
> 
> Just lacking in battery life.


What I do know is I will never, ever order from Aliexpress again regardless of price. Besides the shipping time, it's been like pulling teeth trying to get this remedied. They are obviously faulty, and they were advertised as the new one with volume control. These are not them. It's a dammed shame, because I do like how these sound and fit. Not an easy combination to come by for me.


----------



## hifi80sman

d3myz said:


> Was it Gamesky?


I think it was!


----------



## Sam L

clerkpalmer said:


> Tell me about it. I’ve had an itchy trigger finger for a few days. The 1more look the most interesting to me. Hybrid drivers plus ANC and 1more delivers good sq. I had a long chat with hifigo and they have been responsive and seem to have a direct line to 1more. It’s a little risky but it was that or the N6 pro and they aren’t really doing it for me.



in one of the 1more threads, there's someone from 1more (support?) saying that hifigo is not an authorized seller. The context was in re: to how is it that hifigo were able to release another product before announcement.


----------



## Sam L

d3myz said:


> Like paying a couple of clowns to come to a kids birthday party.


lol. omg. I'm NOT laughing because I was thinking the exact same thing. definitely wasn't....


----------



## Sam L

LordToneeus said:


> I picked up the white Earfun Free's for around $40 because I wanted a pair to use in the shower (since I can't get any waterproof speaker to sound even halfway decent during a shower).  These are IPX 7, usb-c with wireless charging, and I am totally happy with the sound.  It's like a cleaner, clearer Ofusho F16: plenty of bass, though it doesn't muddy things up.  They are a bit on the fat side, but bear in mind I have a pea-sized head too.
> 
> Now to test those waterproof claims.



They are a rock-solid, great "bang for the buck" pair of TWS earphones.


----------



## Sam L

clerkpalmer said:


> All right, I am giving the MiFo 07s a try.  Specs look good. Dual BA drivers (will there be enough bass?), IPX7 and some form of noise cancelling.



was just looking at the mifo 07s. I love my 05s. Let us know what you think!


----------



## bronco1015

Nuarl n6 pro showed up this morning. just listened to them for a few mins. will post once i've had a chance to listen to them for a while. The voice prompts and pairing process are 100% identical to the ofusho F16, Tevi and T5..
love the button placement, that volume can be adjusted on each iem, but they don't seem to have track navigation. Could be user error though.


----------



## d3myz

cwill said:


> So...are you having CONSTANT cut-outs and actual disconnect-reconnects for no reason whatsoever?


I actually haven't had any.


----------



## Spamateur

HiFlight said:


> I just received the Mavin XR-Qi today but it is likely that I will be returning them as the announcements are not in English as has been previously reported.  The other two dealbreakers are that the stabilizers must be removed in order to fit the phones in the charging case and IMO, the sound quality is not as good as the Air-X.  They seem to lack the air and dynamics that I hear with the Air-X, sounding rather thick and uninvolving  in comparison.  I can say that the case is very tiny and build quality is more impressive than the Air-X but in the end, the sound doesn't warrant them being keepers.



FWIW, I contacted support through Amazon and they sent me a message back last night saying the wrong batch got shipped to Amazon and distributed before they could recall them in regards to the Japanese voice notifications. They said to return them to Amazon and that they have the English version in stock.

Your sound impressions are similar to my own. I find the original Air-X to be superior in sound, and it took using Comply foams with the XR to get them sounding close. I didn't find the thickness so much as they sounded really intimate and forward without any space.


----------



## Spamateur

hifi80sman said:


> Some of the sales guys on my team say stuff all the time that's not true, so I have to go and do damage control and hope the clients don't jump ship on us.



God, this sounds waaaaay too familiar. Gotta love sales: they stick around for a year or two, cause lots of problems, then leave after they've thoroughly annoyed every product manager and burned all bridges within the company.


----------



## clerkpalmer

Sam L said:


> was just looking at the mifo 07s. I love my 05s. Let us know what you think!


Well - I hurriedly cancelled my order when I saw them on ebay for $95 bucks.  Now they are showing as unavailable on Amazon and the ebay sellers seem sketchy.


----------



## asak

clerkpalmer said:


> Well - I hurriedly cancelled my order when I saw them on ebay for $95 bucks.  Now they are showing as unavailable on Amazon and the ebay sellers seem sketchy.



I have a set. They sound pretty close to the Shanling MTW100, with a bit more clarity due to the extra BA; giving it more headroom and better extension. The case is metal and fairly solid. But again, the holders where the ear tips recess into are shallow and I've found only the stock tips fit in the case so far. Typical BA sound, very neutral, the bass is certainly not too strong, sound is more akin to a smaller dual BA like a Knowles GQ or Sonion Acupass(unvented), though I believe it's a custom BA from Bellsing. Regardless, the mid clarity is very good.


----------



## tma6 (Jan 7, 2020)

Okay here we go, my review of the Nuarl N6 Pros after 5 days of use:

It took me a few days to realize what I was listening to, but now I'm going to just come out and say it: the N6 Pros are pound for pound the best sounding true wireless earbuds I've heard to date, and I've heard a ton. That does not necessarily mean that everyone will love the sound signature, but I do think Nuarl have managed to pull off something special. The N6 Pros have allowed me to experience the convenience of TWS while also being able to appreciate the details and subtleties of my music. While not cheap ($160 on Amazon right now), this is the first set that I would say comes close to audiophile-grade, though I know that's a loaded term. On top of that, they've been a joy to use, even though they might not have all the new bells and whistles that a lot of new TWS are touting these days. Let's get into the full breakdown.

Sound Quality: The sound quality of the N6 Pros is the star of the show. I would describe the sound signature as precise, crisp and refined. They present the listener with a highly detailed, balanced musical experience, with bass that is super clean and punches with air. They're a bit more laid back than something like the Liberty 2 Pros, which are very in-your-face, and don't have the L2P's enveloping resonant bass, but they're much more accurate and faithful to the music (don't get me wrong though, I'm not throwing the L2Ps away any time soon, still love them). The real difference here is the timbre, realism, and imaging that the N6 Pros are able to produce. When listening to music, I can visualize drums being smacked, guitars being plucked, and pianos being struck. Nothing sounds distorted or unnatural. I'm not saying that these rival some of the higher-end wired sets that I've tried, but the N6 Pros are at least worthy of such a comparison.

Bass: The bass is exceptionally clean and deep. While not overly powerful or resonant, it's consistent from the upper bass range down to the lower range in both attack and quality. The lowest bass notes are discernible and clear, and never muddy up the overall sound. Further, there is a very solid mid-bass punch that makes genres such as hip-hop, edm, and jazz feel alive and never dull. The punch even arrives with a bit of air that provides a unique and satisfying quality. A lot of true wireless and even wired earbuds that attempt an "audiophile" sound signature end up squashing the bass, rendering much of my favorite music feeling lackluster. This was not the case here. Even though some may want a bit more bass in their music (and I definitely love my bass), I would not call the N6 Pros bass-light. If you can, I really recommend EQing for a bass preference sound, as I felt these responded to EQ brilliantly and without distortion. On the whole, the clarity, extension and punchiness of the bass make up for the lack of resonance in my view.

Mids: The mids are just phenomenal not just for a TWS set, but for an IEM period. They're pushed a little forward in the mix so vocals and mid-range instruments have excellent presence. The detail in the mids is great, and I never experienced any muddiness even on super busy tracks. The tonality is absolutely top notch, with breathy and emotional vocals, plucky bass guitars, sharp and smooth brass, and refined string instrumental presentation. As I said earlier, the realism is fantastic. Even on busy electronic focused tracks, there's perceptible variation and texture in the different sounds that the artist either sampled or created. There is excellent instrument separation and the imaging is hands-down the best I've heard on a TWS. While the soundstage is not huge (slightly wider than the L2Ps and less wide than the MW07s or MTWs), every instrument is given its clear, logical, rightful place in the mix. Fantastic mid-forward presentation.

Highs: The highs are some of the most detailed that I've heard on a TWS. Even at the highest registers, they always come through with clarity and crispiness. The timbre is also excellent. I know I harp on it a lot on this thread, but often on TWS sets cymbals can sound tinny or grating and compressed. I found this to be an issue even on sets I've liked such as the Airpod Pros or occasionally the Liberty 2 Pros. On the N6 Pros however, cymbals sound exactly like cymbals should, with great attack and decay. There is definitely some brightness in the treble that can verge on harshness which may be an issue for some, particularly out of the box without EQ. I did feel however that after 3-4 days of burn-in, the sound warmed up a bit and the harshness dissipated somewhat at least for me. After some treble-lowering EQ, the inherent brightness meant that treble really comes through and shimmers on every track. All in all, the detail retrieval in the highs is at or near the top of the food chain, even when compared with TWS that are twice the price.

Another thing I wanted to state as a general point for the sound is that the dynamics are also surprisingly good. You can actually hear crescendos when they occur in music, adding nice emotion to what could be perceived as a flat-ish sound signature.

Overall, the N6 Pros are a turning point for TWS in my opinion. It's taken longer than expected for true wireless earbuds to really match wired IEMs, but for once I would pick these up over some of my wired buds just purely for their sound quality. I do think that these benefit greatly from bass-favored EQ, and perhaps some damping down on the highs, but if you can handle the brightness or don't want a set that might need EQ (both totally legitimate concerns) these are my new TWS king for sound quality. I'm not sure if it's the carbon nanotube driver, or the HDSS implementation, but these are a big step in the right direction for TWS.

Look/Fit: Starting with fit, I know this is very subjective, but for someone with small ears these are some of the more comfortable TWS I've used. Been able to use them continuously for many hours straight without issue. That being said, I also find the L2Ps comfortable and I know a lot of people have issues with those so take my opinion here with a grain of salt. One thing I would mention is that there are a ton of great tips included here (I'm using the small SpinFits). In terms of the look and feel, I absolutely love how these look. They're on the larger side, but I find that they look great in the ear and don't stick out too much. They also have this really nice soft touch material on the outside and a gold trim that makes them look and feel super premium.

Extra Features: The N6 Pros don't have fancy technological features like ANC or ambient listening modes. That being said, they doing all of the simple things right. They have great, clicky button controls that control everything on both sides, and the buttons are situated on the top of the earbuds so that you're not pressing them into your ears when accessing the functions. They also have great noise-isolation, particularly with the SpinFits even without ANC. No pass-through is a bummer, but I can live with it.

Battery: 11 hours of battery life. Not sure I need to say anything more about it. It's awesome. I used them for 5-6 hours straight and had 65% charge left when I checked.

Case: The case is very solid. It has the same soft touch material as the outside of the N6 Pro earbuds, which is really nice. It's slightly bulky, but not big. The latch is a little loose, but seems sturdy. The magnets on the inside of the case are really strong though. Also it has really nice orange LEDs on the outside that give a good reading of the amount of battery left. It also does not need to be recharged a lot at all. I've yet to have to charge it again after 5 days since the initial charge and it's still got at least half capacity left as far as I can tell.

Microphone/Calls: The call quality is surprisingly good. People on the other end told me that they could hear a bit more background noise when I was walking around NYC than when I was using the Airpod Pros, but I never got any complaints about not being able to hear me even when it got windy or loud. I still need to test this more, but I've been more than happy with it so far and I talk on the phone a lot using TWS.

Connectivity: Some of the most solid connectivity that I've had using a TWS. I've experienced zero dropouts or bugs. It has all the standard codecs you would want, as well as HDSS. As such, I've experienced no latency when watching YouTube or Netflix on my iPhone and Windows laptop. Unfortunately no multi-point connection capacity so you have to manually switch between devices.

Conclusion: The Nuarl N6 Pros are my new favorite TWS set, particularly for critical listening. While it lacks some of the features like ANC, ambient listening, and an independent app EQ, that are becoming more prevalent in the TWS space, the fantastic sound quality, functionality, comfort, look, battery life, and connectivity more than make up for this (though it would definitely be nice to have independent app EQ). I'm super impressed and feel like this bodes really well for the ability of TWS to deliver premium audio quality going forward.


----------



## Inear

Audio-Technica announced new TWS with ANC.

https://www.engadget.com/2020/01/07/audio-technica-ath-anc300tw-anc-earbuds/


Where is Bose? They need to announce the 700.


----------



## Inear

sarv said:


> .
> 
> Bring using them for 2 weeks now, pretty much agree with everything he says, but like I said before finding a right fit has been hard for me, as there's a whine when they move around cos of ANC.
> 2. Was on a plane yesterday, they removed the engine noice, but not like headphones.
> ...





Have you used them for the gym?


----------



## d3myz (Jan 7, 2020)

bronco1015 said:


> Nuarl n6 pro showed up this morning. just listened to them for a few mins. will post once i've had a chance to listen to them for a while. The voice prompts and pairing process are 100% identical to the ofusho F16, Tevi and T5..
> love the button placement, that volume can be adjusted on each iem, but they don't seem to have track navigation. Could be user error though.


I'm assuming because it's the same Qualcomm 3020 or 3026 chipset? or are the a 5 series QC chipset?


----------



## clerkpalmer

tma6 said:


> Okay here we go, my review of the Nuarl N6 Pros after 5 days of use:
> 
> It took me a few days to realize what I was listening to, but now I'm going to just come out and say it: the N6 Pros are pound for pound the best sounding true wireless earbuds I've heard to date, and I've heard a ton. That does not necessarily mean that everyone will love the sound signature, but I do think Nuarl have managed to pull off something special. The N6 Pros have allowed me to experience the convenience of TWS while also being able to appreciate the details and subtleties of my music. While not cheap ($160 on Amazon right now), this is the first set that I would say comes close to audiophile-grade, though I know that's a loaded term. On top of that, they've been a joy to use, even though they might not have all the new bells and whistles that a lot of new TWS are touting these days. Let's get into the full breakdown.
> 
> ...



Okay - well I needed to buy something today so you've convinced me.  Arriving Thursday.


----------



## d3myz

tma6 said:


> Okay here we go, my review of the Nuarl N6 Pros after 5 days of use:
> 
> It took me a few days to realize what I was listening to, but now I'm going to just come out and say it: the N6 Pros are pound for pound the best sounding true wireless earbuds I've heard to date, and I've heard a ton. That does not necessarily mean that everyone will love the sound signature, but I do think Nuarl have managed to pull off something special. The N6 Pros have allowed me to experience the convenience of TWS while also being able to appreciate the details and subtleties of my music. While not cheap ($160 on Amazon right now), this is the first set that I would say comes close to audiophile-grade, though I know that's a loaded term. On top of that, they've been a joy to use, even though they might not have all the new bells and whistles that a lot of new TWS are touting these days. Let's get into the full breakdown.
> 
> ...



Great Review, my man! I like how it's very well thought out and organized, unlike anything i've ever madly rambled. So excited for these to get here today.


----------



## C_Lindbergh

Inear said:


> Audio-Technica announced new TWS with ANC.
> 
> https://www.engadget.com/2020/01/07/audio-technica-ath-anc300tw-anc-earbuds/
> 
> ...



The QuietPoint ATH-ANC300TWs will last just 4.5 hours on a single charge.

What are they thinking, a mere 4.5 hours in 2020. No matter how good they sound (I doubt they are much better than other procuts in that price segment) that's simply unacceptable.


----------



## tma6

clerkpalmer said:


> Okay - well I needed to buy something today so you've convinced me.  Arriving Thursday.



I think you'll be very pleased  Definitely let me know what you think though. I felt a bit nervous hyping these up so much bc sound is so subjective, but to my ear they're awesome.


----------



## SaveTheMantaRays

How you feel about the N6 Pro, is how I feel about the N6.  But now debating on ordering N6 Pro for comparisons, and keeping my fav.  But extremely happy with N6, so may not worry about it


tma6 said:


> I think you'll be very pleased  Definitely let me know what you think though. I felt a bit nervous hyping these up so much bc sound is so subjective, but to my ear they're awesome.


----------



## tma6

d3myz said:


> Great Review, my man! I like how it's very well thought out and organized, unlike anything i've ever madly rambled. So excited for these to get here today.



Thanks man! Really appreciate that. And who doesn't love mad rambles about this weird obsession we all have?? Looking forward to one about these when you get them in!


----------



## d3myz

Haven't been this excited since.... well, Christmas I guess.


----------



## tma6

SaveTheMantaRays said:


> How you feel about the N6 Pro, is how I feel about the N6.  But now debating on ordering N6 Pro for comparisons, and keeping my fav.  But extremely happy with N6, so may not worry about it



That's awesome! I'm getting the N6s in later tonight so I'll be providing a comparison for sure.


----------



## Spamateur

tma6 said:


> Thanks man! Really appreciate that. And who doesn't love mad rambles about this weird obsession we all have?? Looking forward to one about these when you get them in!



Awesome review. I agree the technical abilities of the N6 Pro are fantastic. I just wish they weren't as hot up top as they're just slightly too bright for my taste, but I'm eagerly awaiting @d3myz 's comparisons with the N6 before I order those.

Today I'm returning the Air-XR, L2P and N6 Pro. Never had this many returns in such a short period of time, but luckily I buy a lot of crap from Amazon.


----------



## tma6

N6 just got here! Will provide first impressions shortly


----------



## d3myz (Jan 7, 2020)

Just listened to the N6 pro. Initial impressions. The do everything well. Super detailed, bass is well controlled highs are watery and def. more shimmer than the NT01A. BUT the mids sound a touch thin to me and they aren't as crisp as the T1x. I'll keep listening. They are so incredibly well balanced, it's really fun. The new design is DOPE!, you feel like your getting a real piece of art and culture. Controls are really nice, although I wish there were ridges in the buttons so I could tell a little better what I'm pressing. I immediately took the wings off. I'm using the stock tips M. about to switch to the spinfits which look nearly to the 360's but a different color. Def. huge upgrade to the NT01A as far as sound, same great build quality, better design.

Quick Edit: just popped in the T1X again, it's brighter and thinner, I still love it, but gat damn, there's something special about this N6 Pro. I was wrong about the mids the are much fuller than the T1x. I had the stupid EQ on spotify.


----------



## bronco1015

d3myz said:


> I'm assuming because it's the same Qualcomm 3020 or 3026 chipset? or are the a 5 series QC chipset?


It's the 3020. I meant to point it out as an fyi in case people had compatibility issues between their source and any of those TWEs. Didn't really make that clear at all though haha.


----------



## tma6

K I can say pretty quickly that the N6s also sound great. More enveloping bass, a little narrower stage, and a bit darker than the N6 Pros. If you can't do the brightness of the N6 Pros then the N6s should be right up your alley. I do think that as of right now the Pros are still worth the extra $30 for detail, imaging, and overall space and air to the sound. Honestly if I didn't have the N6 Pros right here, the N6s would be blowing me away. Bass is a little quicker on the N6 Pros, but the N6s bass is more emphasized. Will keep listening!


----------



## tma6

d3myz said:


> Just listened to the N6 pro. Initial impressions. The do everything well. Super detailed, bass is well controlled highs are watery and def. more shimmer than the NT01A. BUT the mids sound a touch thin to me and they aren't as crisp as the T1x. I'll keep listening. They are so incredibly well balanced, it's really fun. The new design is DOPE!, you feel like your getting a real piece of art and culture. Controls are really nice, although I wish there were ridges in the buttons so I could tell a little better what I'm pressing. I immediately took the wings off. I'm using the stock tips M. about to switch to the spinfits which look nearly to the 360's but a different color. Def. huge upgrade to the NT01A as far as sound, same great build quality, better design.
> 
> Quick Edit: just popped in the T1X again, it's brighter and thinner, I still love it, but gat damn, there's something special about this N6 Pro. I was wrong about the mids the are much fuller than the T1x. I had the stupid EQ on spotify.



I actually also felt the sound of the N6 Pros was not super full on the first day, but I found it really opens up after burn in  The new design is so dope!


----------



## d3myz

tma6 said:


> K I can say pretty quickly that the N6s also sound great. More enveloping bass, a little narrower stage, and a bit darker than the N6 Pros. If you can't do the brightness of the N6 Pros then the N6s should be right up your alley. I do think that as of right now the Pros are still worth the extra $30 for detail, imaging, and overall space and air to the sound. Honestly if I didn't have the N6 Pros right here, the N6s would be blowing me away. Bass is a little quicker on the N6 Pros, but the N6s bass is more emphasized. Will keep listening!


Good to know. i'm A/B ing the N6 pro and the T1x and they really do both sound great. The N6p is definitely less harsh and slightly less bright, better soundstage and honestly better balance, detail, less bass, but the bass is really present and accurate. As a bass lover it's actually enough for me. Would I like more sure, but this is a beautiful TWS'. the T1x has an overall smaller thinner feel. I think the N6p is really close to perfection.


----------



## d3myz

tma6 said:


> I actually also felt the sound of the N6 Pros was not super full on the first day, but I found it really opens up after burn in  The new design is so dope!


It's funny because I haven't listened to any tws other than the APP for like a week. Had to get back in to it. Stupid Wheel of Time Audiobooks. The stock tips sound great, better to me than the spinfits but the start to hurt after a while, I need to roll them out to soften them up.


----------



## tma6

d3myz said:


> Good to know. i'm A/B ing the N6 pro and the T1x and they really do both sound great. The N6p is definitely less harsh and slightly less bright, better soundstage and honestly better balance, detail, less bass, but the bass is really present and accurate. As a bass lover it's actually enough for me. Would I like more sure, but this is a beautiful TWS'. the T1x has an overall smaller thinner feel. I think the N6p is really close to perfection.



I feel the same way. I actually did the same comparison on day one and came away damn impressed w the T1X again. After a few days of listening the N6 Pros pulled away pretty handily, but the T1Xs have got to be near the top of the budget ladder for sure.


----------



## Sam L

d3myz said:


> Great Review, my man! I like how it's very well thought out and organized, unlike anything i've ever madly rambled. So excited for these to get here today.



Second this. I admire people who can coherently write a comprehensive review for earphones/headphones. I can't sit long enough to write out my thoughts before I get caught up in something else.


----------



## Sam L

tma6 said:


> I feel the same way. I actually did the same comparison on day one and came away damn impressed w the T1X again. After a few days of listening the N6 Pros pulled away pretty handily, but the T1Xs have got to be near the top of the budget ladder for sure.



Saw that the t1x's dropped to $34, so I ordered another pair... will return my original order. I can't think of anything else that can compete with the t1X at this price point. What else is in the same ballpark? Bomaker sifi?


----------



## d3myz

tma6 said:


> I feel the same way. I actually did the same comparison on day one and came away damn impressed w the T1X again. After a few days of listening the N6 Pros pulled away pretty handily, but the T1Xs have got to be near the top of the budget ladder for sure.


So i'm also testing the N6p with the following tips.

Symbio- reduced bass, especially the mid bass. highs sound thinner and brighter, not great. mids are also thinner.
Auvio's- great full sound, better bass a little more high end, reduced mids or that could be the n6pro breaking in, who knows.
Spiral Dots - close to the Auvio's with better highs, but the mids are a bit more reduced.
Stock Tips - Full sounding big mids, detailed higs, tight controlled bass.
Spinfits - I only had these in for a min or two. The mids seemed crushed almost like I could hear the tubes of the ear tips changing the sound, maybe reverberating, cavernous? I don't freaking know, they are way comfortable but the make the N6 pro sound unnatural to me.


----------



## hifi80sman (Jan 7, 2020)

d3myz said:


> Haven't been this excited since.... well, Christmas I guess.


Slippery slope, my friend!  Get it under control!


----------



## bubsdaddy

Sam L said:


> Saw that the t1x's dropped to $34, so I ordered another pair... will return my original order. I can't think of anything else that can compete with the t1X at this price point. What else is in the same ballpark? Bomaker sifi?



I ordered a pair also. Don’t need them but.......


----------



## d3myz

Spamateur said:


> Awesome review. I agree the technical abilities of the N6 Pro are fantastic. I just wish they weren't as hot up top as they're just slightly too bright for my taste, but I'm eagerly awaiting @d3myz 's comparisons with the N6 before I order those.
> 
> Today I'm returning the Air-XR, L2P and N6 Pro. Never had this many returns in such a short period of time, but luckily I buy a lot of crap from Amazon.


You Flatter me, good sir. So far I'm liking the N6p. Trying to listen to some metal, sounds pretty good, but There's def. a lack of sub bass and that's no bueno.


----------



## d3myz

bubsdaddy said:


> I ordered a pair also. Don’t need them but.......


Mee too. Hah Hah, I was like. maybe my wife will use them? She's been using my L2p's and Spunky beats. As long as there's sound that comes out she doesn't care. LOL.


----------



## d3myz

hifi80sman said:


> Slippery slope, my friend!  Get it under control!


Your like the resident Drug dealer. The drug sells itself and you just tell us it's ok, it will make you feel better, buy two of them. hahah.


----------



## Firevortex (Jan 7, 2020)

clerkpalmer said:


> Cancelled my order.  Between the IPX issue and the no English version, it's too much to swallow. I messaged 1more for a more definitive answer on the IP rating.  I really think these look compelling and could be an APP killer.



yea, there is no IPX rating on them. not even on their official Chinese site. only thing relevant is some stainless grill for the surface mic to keep the dust out. i would assume it should be the same as the Sony with the surface mic.
Having tried the 1More stylish, its one of the best sounding for the sub $100 price bracket way better than the popular Mifo O5s Pro edition and sabbat E12Ultra. i personally think it will sound better than the sony and airpod pro but dont think it will beat them on ANC though. we'll see.



d3myz said:


> I trust Gamesky like I trust a guy selling speakers out of a van in a parking lot.



didn't know this guy is a paid shill. i'll stick with Jimsreviewroom.


----------



## gocam

Spamateur said:


> FWIW, I contacted support through Amazon and they sent me a message back last night saying the wrong batch got shipped to Amazon and distributed before they could recall them in regards to the Japanese voice notifications. They said to return them to Amazon and that they have the English version in stock.
> 
> Your sound impressions are similar to my own. I find the original Air-X to be superior in sound, and it took using Comply foams with the XR to get them sounding close. I didn't find the thickness so much as they sounded really intimate and forward without any space.




I have been listening to the XR qis for q few days now, and despite the prompts being in Japanese I am cautiously optimistic. They sound significantly better than my bomaker Sifis and are more comfortable in the ear to wear, particularly for an extended period, given the shape and weight. The separation is much better in sound, it makes for a more engrossing/involving listening experience. The first true wireless set that makes me not card around my earstudios and various spendy earbuds.

That said I am very curious about the Nuarl n6 although it looks somewhat bulky.

Downsides of the air xr for now are the sensitivity of the touch, and my current inability to get the Google assistant stuff working. I much prefer the physical button press of the Bomaker. The voice call quality transmission and reception is good also.

Listening w/ aptx on Android with tidal sources for all my testing...


----------



## hifi80sman

d3myz said:


> Mee too. Hah Hah, I was like. maybe my wife will use them? She's been using my L2p's and Spunky beats. As long as there's sound that comes out she doesn't care. LOL.


That's funny.  You know, some people (most of women around me) are like, "there's a forum where you guys all talk about headphones, earbuds, and sound?".  It's like this world here is totally shocking to them.  It's shocking to me that it's shocking to them!  My wife just wants some sound, but then I get the snide comment when I get her $15 earbuds: "only the best for me!".  LOL!


----------



## chinmie

hifi80sman said:


> That's funny.  You know, some people (most of women around me) are like, "there's a forum where you guys all talk about headphones, earbuds, and sound?".  It's like this world here is totally shocking to them.  It's shocking to me that it's shocking to them!  My wife just wants some sound, but then I get the snide comment when I get her $15 earbuds: "only the best for me!".  LOL!



Glad I'm not the only one with the " my wife said everything sounded the same" problem 
I gave up trying to convince her this or that sounds better than the earphones that comes with the phone, but i don't want her hearing ruined, so i just strategically supplied her with good earphones and TWS


----------



## tma6

SaveTheMantaRays said:


> How you feel about the N6 Pro, is how I feel about the N6.  But now debating on ordering N6 Pro for comparisons, and keeping my fav.  But extremely happy with N6, so may not worry about it



I think it might be worth trying them out if you don't mind returning stuff. If not, I agree with you that the N6 sound great and you really can't go wrong. So far, N6 have more prominent bass and like 90% of the detail. I prefer the Pros still but it's close and I want to give the N6s at least 3-4 more days before I make a final decision on which to keep.


----------



## d3myz

hifi80sman said:


> That's funny.  You know, some people (most of women around me) are like, "there's a forum where you guys all talk about headphones, earbuds, and sound?".  It's like this world here is totally shocking to them.  It's shocking to me that it's shocking to them!  My wife just wants some sound, but then I get the snide comment when I get her $15 earbuds: "only the best for me!".  LOL!


Hahah! That's hilarious! My wife just rolled her eyes when I showed her the N6pro and tried to tell her how cool they were! And she def. gives me a hard time about my love for the forum.


----------



## d3myz

tma6 said:


> I think it might be worth trying them out if you don't mind returning stuff. If not, I agree with you that the N6 sound great and you really can't go wrong. So far, N6 have more prominent bass and like 90% of the detail. I prefer the Pros still but it's close and I want to give the N6s at least 3-4 more days before I make a final decision on which to keep.


I'm jamming the N6 right now and yea man, it also sounds fantastic, I love the extra bass. Funny thing happened. After fully charging the N6Pro today, I left the N6pro on in the case, connected to my mac and playing a burn in playlist. I just got home, roughly 3 hours later and the left bud is on blinking white, not playing any sound and completely unresponsive. I popped it in the case and charged it for 5 min. still nothing. The right one was still playing music and fine. I have no idea what's going on but, i'll give it a full charge and see if it comes back to life.


----------



## thimantha

Does anyone know whether it's possible to buy just the charging case of the QCY QS2? :c I lost my case and now have no way of charging my earbuds.


----------



## assassin10000

Anyone using these foam tips? Considering trying them out as it looks like they may work with some TWS cases and still charge.

ikko i-planet
https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B07WG5Q129/


----------



## SoundChoice

d3myz said:


> I found my NT01A's to be way to warm and not detailed enough after going back heavily burned in T1x and L2pro. I was super sad, because I really loved them when I got them. I was hoping tey would brighten up over time but the didn't. Very reminiscent  of the 1more stylish.


Is the L2P a big step up from the T1X, generally or in any way?


----------



## rockspirit

So I narrowed down to Tevi and 1more Stylish. But then after looking around the local online shop, I can get the Stylish for $55 (chinese prompt) and Tevi surprisingly costs $100. Would the Tevi be worth its price or should I go with Stylish? If so, is the sound an upgrade from 1more ibfree?


----------



## tma6

rockspirit said:


> So I narrowed down to Tevi and 1more Stylish. But then after looking around the local online shop, I can get the Stylish for $55 (chinese prompt) and Tevi surprisingly costs $100. Would the Tevi be worth its price or should I go with Stylish?



I really like the Tevis but they’re overpriced. Stylish for $55 is the better buy.


----------



## tma6

SoundChoice said:


> Is the L2P a big step up from the T1X, generally or in any way?



Not a big step up. L2Ps have the most powerful bass on the TWS market imo, while maintaining good detail in the mids and highs. T1X are a bit more balanced and detailed, but also have great impactful bass. It’s a pretty close call for me but I think if money is a big factor you should go for the T1X since they’re so much cheaper. On the other hand if you’re a Basshead you should get the L2Ps and never look back.


----------



## tma6 (Jan 8, 2020)

d3myz said:


> I'm jamming the N6 right now and yea man, it also sounds fantastic, I love the extra bass. Funny thing happened. After fully charging the N6Pro today, I left the N6pro on in the case, connected to my mac and playing a burn in playlist. I just got home, roughly 3 hours later and the left bud is on blinking white, not playing any sound and completely unresponsive. I popped it in the case and charged it for 5 min. still nothing. The right one was still playing music and fine. I have no idea what's going on but, i'll give it a full charge and see if it comes back to life.



Woah that’s scary! Did they come back to life?? They’re pretty easy to reset - just hold power button for 8 seconds then when you hear 3 beeps press the power button twice


----------



## caprimulgus

tma6 said:


> L2Ps have the most powerful bass on the TWS market imo...if you’re a Basshead you should get the L2Ps and never look back.



I currently use my Blon BL-03 and KZ ZSX with a bass boosting amp (Digizoid ZO2 - more of a hardware EQ really), which boosts 33Hz by about 11-12db I believe - is L2P going to be enough for me?


----------



## tma6

caprimulgus said:


> I currently use my Blon BL-03 and KZ ZSX with a bass boosting amp (Digizoid ZO2 - more of a hardware EQ really), which boosts 33Hz by about 11-12db I believe - is L2P going to be enough for me?



Haha damn that’s a lot of bass! I thought the Blons sounded awesome when I tried them but never fit me well. I’d say if the L2Ps don’t satisfy you then there’s nothing else in the TWS space that will. In my view you should be good though. They have awesome bass - it’s resonant while also being very impactful.


----------



## rockspirit

tma6 said:


> I really like the Tevis but they’re overpriced. Stylish for $55 is the better buy.


have you ever tried the 1more ibfree? if so, how much of an sq upgrade is it compared to the 1more Stylish?


----------



## chinmie

it seems the new Galaxy Buds won't have ANC after all... pass then

https://m.gsmarena.com/samsungs_upcoming_galaxy_buds_wont_have_active_noise_canceling-amp-40876.php


----------



## bronco1015

Sam L said:


> Saw that the t1x's dropped to $34, so I ordered another pair... will return my original order. I can't think of anything else that can compete with the t1X at this price point. What else is in the same ballpark? Bomaker sifi?


i'd 2nd the SiFi being right up there with the Fiil T1x, though SQ edge imo goes to the Fiil, but it's not a huge step down to the sifi and if i could only keep one of them it would be the Sifi. A the sound is quite good, and B they're way mor comfortable to wear than the fiil's imo. Can't wear the Fiils for mor than an hour or so, the SiFi i can easily wear for hours at a time.


----------



## hifi80sman

chinmie said:


> it seems the new Galaxy Buds won't have ANC after all... pass then
> 
> https://m.gsmarena.com/samsungs_upcoming_galaxy_buds_wont_have_active_noise_canceling-amp-40876.php


That's disappointing.  It looks like improved battery, charging, and sound.  A little "meh".  Now, if the improved sound is some type of hybrid design with all the codecs, then OK, I may take a look.


----------



## bronco1015

hifi80sman said:


> That's funny.  You know, some people (most of women around me) are like, "there's a forum where you guys all talk about headphones, earbuds, and sound?".  It's like this world here is totally shocking to them.  It's shocking to me that it's shocking to them!  My wife just wants some sound, but then I get the snide comment when I get her $15 earbuds: "only the best for me!".  LOL!


Man. That is so true how many Women i know especially, mor than men, who are like; What you talk about headphones? What's there to talk about. One friend even refers to my HD800S as the juicers. But then last Monday in a panic she was like, hey my UFO earbuds broke. I need you to find me another headphone that fits like those do. She had 2 pair of the OG anbes359 and loves them, so got the Sifi for her new backup.


----------



## bronco1015

hifi80sman said:


> That's disappointing.  It looks like improved battery, charging, and sound.  A little "meh".  Now, if the improved sound is some type of hybrid design with all the codecs, then OK, I may take a look.


I don't think they'll have all the codecs, unless the new Samsung flagships start arriving with APTXHD. That said, between LDAC and AAC, provided they're implemented well, they may still be worth getting. slightly off topic, not a fan of the MW65 unfortunately. Have you tried the AKG NC700M2?


----------



## karloil

d3myz said:


> Incorrect, It does have and app. that is in beta. I believe there is a firmware update as well



Yes, i was already informed of this a few minutes after i posted my reply.


----------



## FYLegend

clerkpalmer said:


> Well - I hurriedly cancelled my order when I saw them on ebay for $95 bucks.  Now they are showing as unavailable on Amazon and the ebay sellers seem sketchy.


The cheaper eBay listings are of the "Mifo O7" released earlier last year, not the high-end O7 released at the end of the year. It appears to be a grey Mifo O5 that still only has dynamic drivers, AAC/SBC and MicroUSB. Not sure what else is different from the O5. Some random YouTuber replied to a comment saying the O5 will eventually have USB Type-C. Not sure if they work for MIFO or not though...

Anyone heard anything about Bomaker? A while back a user on Drop had told me that Bomaker was going to release a newer TWS with a Type-C case, but were also told that the case would be large and unwieldy catering to a "business" market.



hifi80sman said:


> That's disappointing.  It looks like improved battery, charging, and sound.  A little "meh".  Now, if the improved sound is some type of hybrid design with all the codecs, then OK, I may take a look.


If the price is about the same as the original buds at launch, I wouldn't mind so much. However, I wish they do away with the proprietary "scalable codec" and that the next Galaxy supports TWS+ as well as AptX HD/LL.

Is there a USB Bluetooth module that supports TWS+? Currently my devices only support AptX without TWS+.


----------



## bronco1015

i just spent 2plus hours listening to all sorts of music from BTBAM to Snarky puppy. Some soundtracks, metal, classic rock some hip hop and pop. Still gonna give them a few days but initial thoughts, at Spamateur, i see what you mean about the top end. I'd say give the N6 some consideration if you aren't already.
I feel like the N6 pro have adequate bass. There were some instances with metal where i wanted just a tad mor sub bass but that isn't definitive because i didn't listen to much metal. One area that really stood out to me was with jazz. I spent a good chunk of time listening to wynton marsalis and Dave brubeck and what can i say...the n6P kick ass with jazz imo. Theres lots of initial impressions i have, but so far these seem to be quite versatile and a solid choice if you just want 1 TW and would actually stick to having just 1. imo, these may be a great all arounder TW or otherwise.


----------



## Firevortex

rockspirit said:


> So I narrowed down to Tevi and 1more Stylish. But then after looking around the local online shop, I can get the Stylish for $55 (chinese prompt) and Tevi surprisingly costs $100. Would the Tevi be worth its price or should I go with Stylish? If so, is the sound an upgrade from 1more ibfree?



The stylish $55 is insanely cheap, very close to wholesale according to a distributor and 1 More is pretty pissed about it and will hammer down those re-sellers as its damaging their brand (they are trying to go international like Beats). The set price is $100. I would grab the 1More for that price i don't think 45% off every where is going to last long.


----------



## SilverEars (Jan 8, 2020)

assassin10000 said:


> Anyone using these foam tips? Considering trying them out as it looks like they may work with some TWS cases and still charge.
> 
> ikko i-planet
> https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B07WG5Q129/


Very interesting!  They are smooth surface, not porous like Comply?  Comes in wide bore sizes?  I don't like porous types that rolls off the mid treble and wooly the bass. I need to be updated on what new tips are out these days worth having my collection.

Edit: it's silicon surface?


----------



## assassin10000

SilverEars said:


> Very interesting!  They are smooth surface, not porous like Comply?  Comes in wide bore sizes?  I don't like porous types that rolls off the mid treble and wooly the bass. I need to be updated on what new tips are out these days worth having my collection.
> 
> Edit: it's silicon surface?



It looks similar to the Shure foam tips, which are my favorite foam tips. I do know my shure foam tips are washable and water does get in and out of the skin when squeezing them dry. I'm not sure if they are a silicone skin or just a smooth looking foam surface, but I'd hazard a guess at the latter.


----------



## chinmie

new TWS from Audio Technica, planned to also have ANC

https://www.engadget.com/2020/01/07/audio-technica-ath-anc300tw-anc-earbuds/


----------



## Muessig

Anyone with any Tevi's been able to get any foam tips that fit it that are shallow? I've asked the customer rep people on Lypertek but no ETA on when I can buy any foam tips like the ones they supply yet.

I was wondering if the comply TrueGrip tips (https://www.complyfoam.com/truegrip/) would fit but I'm not sure which one to go for?


----------



## Spamateur

gocam said:


> The separation is much better in sound, it makes for a more engrossing/involving listening experience.



Give the Air-X a shot if you like the XR. IMO (and according to another tester here) the X sounds better than the XR, and the X is also cheaper and the case stores a LOT more battery life  There's better separation and more "space" and air, and they're more linear in general. The X also has physical buttons, although they're on the outside face of the earpieces so the buttons unfortunately press into your ear.

I'm actually returning the XR as outside of the more premium-feeling plastic used in the construction and the Qi charging, I think the X are superior in terms of sound and also the case is more convenient as you can easily fit aftermarket tips. I'm currently using Comply Smartcore Sport Pro tips... they took some wrangling to get on but they make the bass sound a bit fuller, make the top end a bit smoother, and isolate better.


----------



## BLUDGEON

I bought my first TW a couple weeks ago, the Xiaomi Mi True Wireless Earbuds Basic, AKA Redmi Airdots (Different name in different regions seemingly).

I got them because I couldn't decide on the "best" buds on the market, and so decided to go with some of the cheapest.  I had tried them out in a shop a couple of times and was impressed with the fit and the sound.

I think I might do a review of sorts at a later time, but I can say in general that I really get the excitement about this headphone category.  It's really pretty magical to be able to listen to music and podcasts without any physical connections!

I love the lack of tangle whenever I pull my phone out of my pocket. I love not getting randomly hooked on doorknobs.  I love being able to listen while I change my clothes.  I love not having to put shorts/pants on while in the house just to have a pocket to put my phone in.  I love it at the gym.  It's pretty friggin' cool man!

If anyone has any questions about these, feel free to ask.


----------



## assassin10000 (Jan 8, 2020)

Muessig said:


> Anyone with any Tevi's been able to get any foam tips that fit it that are shallow? I've asked the customer rep people on Lypertek but no ETA on when I can buy any foam tips like the ones they supply yet.
> 
> I was wondering if the comply TrueGrip tips (https://www.complyfoam.com/truegrip/) would fit but I'm not sure which one to go for?



Maybe these?


The Tevi tips look like they could be cut down generic foam T400 (or perhaps T200) tips.



assassin10000 said:


> Anyone using these foam tips? Considering trying them out as it looks like they may work with some TWS cases and still charge.
> 
> ikko i-planet
> https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B07WG5Q129/


----------



## Giri2809

Is there some already tried Haylou T15 ? Seem not much review posted....
I would like to know is sound better than Haylou GT1 ?


----------



## d3myz

bronco1015 said:


> Man. That is so true how many Women i know especially, mor than men, who are like; What you talk about headphones? What's there to talk about. One friend even refers to my HD800S as the juicers. But then last Monday in a panic she was like, hey my UFO earbuds broke. I need you to find me another headphone that fits like those do. She had 2 pair of the OG anbes359 and loves them, so got the Sifi for her new backup.


 My wife just pops in to my office each day around workout time and asks me which ones she can use. I've been giving her the , 359's, QCY T1s, Spunky Beats and the L2pro but she did comment she really liked the Liberty 2 pro and they had really good bass. I think that's the only time she's ever given any feedback other than "they were fine." Fair enough, that's my response whenever she asks me if I like any type of home decor item. LOL


----------



## d3myz

karloil said:


> Yes, i was already informed of this a few minutes after i posted my reply.


Sorry, I was catching up.


----------



## d3myz

tma6 said:


> Woah that’s scary! Did they come back to life?? They’re pretty easy to reset - just hold power button for 8 seconds then when you hear 3 beeps press the power button twice


So the left bud came back, now the right one is in a haywire. It's flashing white. If I put it in the case and plug it in it will go back to the normal 3x flash for a min. then after it initilized for 5 seconds or so it goes back to quickly flashing white. I've reset it probably 30x and it won't complete the reset. The white light goes solid but then back to the quick flashing white. It will turn off, act like it's resetting and go into firmware upgrade mode, but it won't go in to pairing mode and keeps switching back to fast blinking white as soon as it's turned on. It's fully charged too. UGH. so frustrating.


----------



## cwill

d3myz said:


> My wife just pops in to my office each day around workout time and asks me which ones she can use. I've been giving her the , 359's, QCY T1s, Spunky Beats and the L2pro but she did comment she really liked the Liberty 2 pro and they had really good bass. I think that's the only time she's ever given any feedback other than "they were fine." Fair enough, that's my response whenever she asks me if I like any type of home decor item. LOL


Or any clothing item.


----------



## Trebor1966

Muessig said:


> Anyone with any Tevi's been able to get any foam tips that fit it that are shallow? I've asked the customer rep people on Lypertek but no ETA on when I can buy any foam tips like the ones they supply yet.
> 
> I was wondering if the comply TrueGrip tips (https://www.complyfoam.com/truegrip/) would fit but I'm not sure which one to go for?



This tips are identical to Tevi's FlexiFit Foam Tips:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000356029739.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.3da24c4d1AJbnS


----------



## Giri2809

tma6 said:


> Not a big step up. L2Ps have the most powerful bass on the TWS market imo, while maintaining good detail in the mids and highs. T1X are a bit more balanced and detailed, but also have great impactful bass. It’s a pretty close call for me but I think if money is a big factor you should go for the T1X since they’re so much cheaper. On the other hand if you’re a Basshead you should get the L2Ps and never look back.


Looks Promising.....how about L2Ps compare with Tranya T3 ?


----------



## Sam L (Jan 8, 2020)

Been listening to the Fiil t1x's for the last couple days... my quick take: everyone needs to grab a pair whenever they are on sale for $34. Don't deliberate, there's no need to read through reviews and do a search here, just get them. There is nothing that comes close to the SQ the t1x's produce under $40 on the market currently, nothing.

Some random observations:
- as other's have mentioned, high mids are a tad hot. But I wouldn't characterize the t1x's as an overly "bright" set of TWEs because the mids are not recessed (and they still have plenty of weight in the border between low mids and mid mids).

- the stock tips were useless to me for an admittedly uncommon reason -- the large size seals too well and the mediums failed to seal at all. If Fiil did a proper job of venting their left-side driver, then the stock large tips would be perfection, but they didn't, so the seal reveals the pronounced driver flex. I bounce back and forth between modified foam tips and various tips I've collected over the years.

- the left driver has an unusual amount of driver flex, borderline unacceptable (but excusable at this price). Weird thing is, the right side is good. Someone else mentioned this as well. I ordered a second pair and the same thing -- left side flexes more during insertion. @voicemaster mentioned that foam tips were a solution. I found that foam tips did help but the various ones I had did not sit very securely on the nozzle and could (possibly) fall off easily.

- the app is an amazing bonus, though I rely on viper4android on my main portable listening device for any adjustments.


----------



## tma6

Giri2809 said:


> Looks Promising.....how about L2Ps compare with Tranya T3 ?



Liked the Tranyas, but they were a bit dark for my taste. L2Ps have probably slightly better quality if not quantity of bass, and more clarity and detail up top imo. Tranyas are a good though and way cheaper.


----------



## Mouseman

Giri2809 said:


> Looks Promising.....how about L2Ps compare with Tranya T3 ?


The L2Ps are much better than the T3s. They're also better than the Tranya B530s, which I think are better than the T3s. They were my favorite until the L2Ps and T1Xs came along, but now I find myself kind of irritated by their fiddly fitting.


----------



## clerkpalmer

Amazon seems to be showing a newer version of the t1x as available. Does anyone know the difference? 1 version is available now the other is not. Which one is the one to get ?


----------



## Sam L

clerkpalmer said:


> Amazon seems to be showing a newer version of the t1x as available. Does anyone know the difference? 1 version is available now the other is not. Which one is the one to get ?



the "newer" version is the "t1", not the "t1x". You can validate by scrolling down to the specs and the model number should be listed. (this is the way the info presented itself last week, dunno if anything changed.)


----------



## SaveTheMantaRays

Amazon is wrong.  That is the T1. T1X is the one you want


clerkpalmer said:


> Amazon seems to be showing a newer version of the t1x as available. Does anyone know the difference? 1 version is available now the other is not. Which one is the one to get ?


----------



## SaveTheMantaRays

Is there a functioning NUARL app on Android in the U.S.

And if so, is it any good?

Thanks


----------



## clerkpalmer

SaveTheMantaRays said:


> Amazon is wrong.  That is the T1. T1X is the one you want


Thanks. Should I be drinking the cool aid on these? I ended up with the Anbes, T5 and B530 after being convinced they were life changing. They are all collecting dust while I turn to my APP and L2p. If these compete with the libertys, I would take a run at them. Thanks all.


----------



## voicemaster

Sam L said:


> Been listening to the Fiil t1x's for the last couple days... my quick take: everyone needs to grab a pair whenever they are on sale for $34. Don't deliberate, there's no need to read through reviews and do a search here, just get them. There is nothing that comes close to the SQ the t1x's produce under $40 on the market currently, nothing.
> 
> Some random observations:
> - as other's have mentioned, high mids are a tad hot. But I wouldn't characterize the t1x's as an overly "bright" set of TWEs because the mids are not recessed (and they still have plenty of weight in the border between low mids and mid mids).
> ...



Get this foam tips 
Earphone Tips F FEYCH Premium Replacement Earbud Tips Memory Foam Earphone Tips Blocking Noise Foam Tips Suit for 4.5-6.3mm Nozzle in-Ear Earphones with Storage Box(Small, 6 Pairs, Black) https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07SJSTB44/ref=cm_sw_r_wa_apa_i_iyHfEbJ1W08QB


----------



## voicemaster

clerkpalmer said:


> Thanks. Should I be drinking the cool aid on these? I ended up with the Anbes, T5 and B530 after being convinced they were life changing. They are all collecting dust while I turn to my APP and L2p. If these compete with the libertys, I would take a run at them. Thanks all.



I don't have the l2p so I can't comment on that, but it definitely destroys APP on SQ.


----------



## SaveTheMantaRays

If I had all that stuff already I wouldn't bother.  I have T5 and T1X.  And just got NUARL N6.  I haven't even thought about the other ones.

The T1X is awesome.  But mainly for the price point.


----------



## clerkpalmer

SaveTheMantaRays said:


> If I had all that stuff already I wouldn't bother.  I have T5 and T1X.  And just got NUARL N6.  I haven't even thought about the other ones.
> 
> The T1X is awesome.  But mainly for the price point.


I forgot that I have an n6 pro on the way. That said, the t1x could become my beater set for cycling.


----------



## d3myz

Giri2809 said:


> Looks Promising.....how about L2Ps compare with Tranya T3 ?


I love the T3. It really has awesome bass, L2pro is better all around though. IMO the L2pro is one of those "must have" TWS' for me. It's not my everyday carry and it's not the most well rounded TWS' but what it does, it does exceptionally well and every time I listen to it, i'm blown away by how good it sounds.


----------



## d3myz

Anohter article regarding the new LC3 codec and BT LE. Very cool stuff. https://gizmodo.com/the-biggest-problems-with-bluetooth-audio-are-about-to-1840461602


----------



## gibletzor

I went ahead and bought a 2nd set of T1X after I sent the 1st back for insanely bad driver flex.  Hopefully this set is better constructed!  I told myself I was done until the new tech stuff comes out later this year.  You all are a bad influence!  lol


----------



## clerkpalmer

For those of you waiting with baited breath, here is the final word from 1more:

“We apologize for the confusion, this info is incorrect. We have a neckband ANC coming out that is ipX 5. However our ANC TWS is not.”


----------



## hifi80sman

bronco1015 said:


> I don't think they'll have all the codecs, unless the new Samsung flagships start arriving with APTXHD. That said, between LDAC and AAC, provided they're implemented well, they may still be worth getting. slightly off topic, not a fan of the MW65 unfortunately. Have you tried the AKG NC700M2?


No, have not tried the AKG.  You know, JBL, AKG, etc. now that Samsung owns them, are starting to look like rebrands of each other.  Haven't really been too excited about AKG since they were acquired by Samsung.  For _*accessories*_, Samsung understands the margins are much better vs. the thinner margins on phones and TVs, etc., so you see a heavy dose of mid-grade plastic and fairly inexpensive build quality.  Not to poo-poo the AKG NC700M2, but I'm just not driven to try them.

That being said, I am very curious about the dyplay TWS with ANC.  Currently $65.99 w/ 10% off coupon.  They're currently in the shopping cart.


----------



## hifi80sman

clerkpalmer said:


> For those of you waiting with baited breath, here is the final word from 1more:
> 
> “We apologize for the confusion, this info is incorrect. We have a neckband ANC coming out that is ipX 5. However our ANC TWS is not.”


Those sales guys!

Thanks for the info!


----------



## hifi80sman

Not sure if this one has been mentioned here yet, but I just found the Advanced Model X *PLUS *on Amazon for $79.


----------



## d3myz

hifi80sman said:


> Not sure if this one has been mentioned here yet, but I just found the Advanced Model X *PLUS *on Amazon for $79.


If they are anything like the M5 was, they are still about $45 too much.


----------



## LordToneeus

hifi80sman said:


> No, have not tried the AKG.  You know, JBL, AKG, etc. now that Samsung owns them, are starting to look like rebrands of each other.  Haven't really been too excited about AKG since they were acquired by Samsung.  For _*accessories*_, Samsung understands the margins are much better vs. the thinner margins on phones and TVs, etc., so you see a heavy dose of mid-grade plastic and fairly inexpensive build quality.  Not to poo-poo the AKG NC700M2, but I'm just not driven to try them.
> 
> That being said, I am very curious about the dyplay TWS with ANC.  Currently $65.99 w/ 10% off coupon.  They're currently in the shopping cart.


"PU & Cashmere diaphragms"?


----------



## hifi80sman

LordToneeus said:


> "PU & Cashmere diaphragms"?


HAHA, that's awesome.  I'll just interpret that as a standard mylar driver.  I think I'll make my own all leather driver.  It'll sound like $h!t.


----------



## HiFlight

SaveTheMantaRays said:


> Is there a functioning NUARL app on Android in the U.S.
> 
> And if so, is it any good?
> 
> Thanks


I was wondering the same thing.  The manual states firmware updates are available on the Apple app but no mention of an Android app.


----------



## d3myz

HiFlight said:


> I was wondering the same thing.  The manual states firmware updates are available on the Apple app but no mention of an Android app.


The firmware on ios is from July of last year and I believe it's meant for the NT01A/X at least that's what I saw when i tried dl'ing it to the N6 pro.


----------



## hifi80sman

Anyone ever give these a shot?

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08138D373/


----------



## d3myz

hifi80sman said:


> Anyone ever give these a shot?
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08138D373/


I did. I liked them. The touch sensors were a little wonky, but they had decent sound, warm. Then I got the T1X and it made them sound like crap. LOL. but they reminde me of an altec lansing product for some reason.


----------



## Sam L

clerkpalmer said:


> Thanks. Should I be drinking the cool aid on these? I ended up with the Anbes, T5 and B530 after being convinced they were life changing. They are all collecting dust while I turn to my APP and L2p. If these compete with the libertys, I would take a run at them. Thanks all.



I currently have all those models, except the L2P. Again, at $34 just get them. Stop asking questions and deliberating.


----------



## bandario (Jan 8, 2020)

They won't ship them to Australia 

My last experience of using a mailbox redirect service tripled the price of my goods. Why Amazon want to do me dirty like this?


----------



## Sam L (Jan 8, 2020)

gibletzor said:


> I went ahead and bought a 2nd set of T1X after I sent the 1st back for insanely bad driver flex.  Hopefully this set is better constructed!  I told myself I was done until the new tech stuff comes out later this year.  You all are a bad influence!  lol



Sadly, I also ordered another pair because of the left side driver flex. No difference. I think they are all flawed at the manufacturing level. Experimenting with tips (other than what it came with) helped to alleviate the flex. It's a weakness that I gladly put up with at this price point.


----------



## C_Lindbergh

Apperently there's another codec LC3plus that will focus on high quality and low latency. 

"
*LC3plus*
LC3plus is a superset of LC3, comprising all features of LC3, including high speech and audio quality. Additionally, LC3plus incorporates functionalities for transmission robustness, extremely low-delay use cases and high-resolution audio transmission. To improve robustness, LC3plus contains a very high-performance packet loss concealment algorithm as well as forward error correction schemes such as channel coding or redundancy frame modes. Furthermore, the codec can operate at several low-delay modes – down to 5ms at a 2.5ms packet size. LC3plus also includes dedicated high-resolution audio modes, which improve the measurable audio quality beyond perceptual transparency (up to 500 kbit/s per channel).

LC3plus is the equivalent to EVS for landlines and enables super wideband quality for VoIP use cases, while the number of channels stays the same as in wideband. Redundancy frame modes permit the transmission of LC3plus payloads over congested VoIP channels, enabling stable phone calls even under these conditions.

LC3plus has been standardized by ETSI as TS 103 634 and brings super wideband speech/audio quality to DECT thanks to its adoption into the 2019 DECT standard. For wideband, the capacity doubles compared to the preceding standard. In terms of robustness, LC3plus’s channel coding, which was specifically designed for DECT channel characteristics, permits the transmission of LC3plus payloads over heavily distorted DECT channels – enabling phone calls without interruption, even if the handset is far away from the base station.

LC3plus’s dedicated high-resolution audio mode provides a high-quality transmission link of 24 bit and 96 kHz audio data. This makes it the ideal codec to bring high-transparency audio streaming to high-resolution wireless accessories such as headsets or loudspeakers. LC3plus is the only open-standard audio codec for high-resolution wireless headsets and high-quality gaming headsets."

https://www.iis.fraunhofer.de/en/ff/amm/communication/lc3.html


----------



## jant71 (Jan 8, 2020)

Word on the Edifier is now...





TWS NB will indeed be $119. TWS6 will be dropped down to $99. Too bad for the suckers that bought it at $119 they are not refunding you  Says available on Edifier site late January then on Amazon a bit after that...
https://www.edifier.com/us/en/headphones-earphones/twsnb-true-wireless-earbud-headphones
Good ANC?? 11 hours w/o and 5 with it on is some hit. Industry leading from AMS? Video guy said he thought it better than APP NC but jury is still out.


Saw two things on the Helm. One, that both the Estat and Triple driver were both $149 and saw it said the Estat was $199. Estat, btw, does have ANC and is a hybrid with a second dynamic driver so very Shuoer Tape-like in it's configuration. Seems these have been MIA at CES. In line amp and headphones went up on their site but not the TWS.


What is wrong with AT, btw? Let's release an ANC at the same price as the AAP, not as small, not as well integrated, probably worse app, same battery, and by the time it comes out Apple will probably have price adjusted the APP so the AT will cost more. If you can't beat them join them but you aren't really matching the appeal. Pretty sure the AT will sound better but the Sony and other also sound better and have better battery life already. Sony is $10 cheaper and gonna drop. They are coming in late and not quite matching the better sounding ones for battery and not matching apple for the more seamless integration and size. LOA - loser on arrival?? Actually like it but maybe at $159 and would be nice if better than IPX2. Maybe the ANC can be shut off(no mention of that yet but I'd hope) and the battery will jump up like the Edifier to closer to 10. How does ambient mode effect the battery life as well?


----------



## chinmie

jant71 said:


> Word on the Edifier is now...
> 
> 
> TWS NB will indeed be $119. TWS6 will be dropped down to $99. Too bad for the suckers that bought it at $119 they are not refunding you  Says on Edifier site late January then Amazon...
> ...



the Audio Technica seems to be banking on their name. seeing their last few effort, they're rather stretching it..unless of course they focus their effort on sound quality, otherwise they won't stand a chance, because it would be harder for them to compete in the other category


----------



## Spamateur (Jan 8, 2020)

chinmie said:


> the Audio Technica seems to be banking on their name. seeing their last few effort, they're rather stretching it..unless of course they focus their effort on sound quality, otherwise they won't stand a chance, because it would be harder for them to compete in the other category



Yeah I tried their first TW model and it was among the worst I've heard. Horribly bright and brittle. The build quality was also very shoddy with the cheapest plastic I've felt in awhile (they literally creaked when pressing buttons bc the housing flexed) and the gigantic charging case. They don't seem to have iterated much since then as all their models aren't befitting the prices they're asking. They need to step up their game.


----------



## bronco1015

hifi80sman said:


> No, have not tried the AKG.  You know, JBL, AKG, etc. now that Samsung owns them, are starting to look like rebrands of each other.  Haven't really been too excited about AKG since they were acquired by Samsung.  For _*accessories*_, Samsung understands the margins are much better vs. the thinner margins on phones and TVs, etc., so you see a heavy dose of mid-grade plastic and fairly inexpensive build quality.  Not to poo-poo the AKG NC700M2, but I'm just not driven to try them.
> 
> That being said, I am very curious about the dyplay TWS with ANC.  Currently $65.99 w/ 10% off coupon.  They're currently in the shopping cart.


damn! They're out of stock. although maybe that's a good thing haha.. I know what you mean about AKG JBL etc. I was disapointed when Samsung scooped them up. I just want to find a solid BT over ear. SAfe to say nothing likely sounds better than the M4u 8 for the money, i just don't want to buy them again. guess i'll use a combo of QC35 for ANC, and pick up an ES100 for the PM3.


----------



## bronco1015

Spamateur said:


> Yeah I tried their first TW model and it was among the worst I've heard. Horribly bright and brittle. The build quality was also very shoddy with the cheapest plastic I've felt in awhile (they literally creaked when pressing buttons bc the housing flexed) and the gigantic charging case. They don't seem to have iterated much since then as all their models aren't befitting the prices they're asking. They need to step up their game.


I tried 2 over ear BT models at RMAF 2017, and they were unbelievably cheap feeling. not to mention some of the worst BT headphones out at the time. I was honestly surprised they put their name on either of them. They were the DSR7BT and the DSR9BT


----------



## chinmie

hifi80sman said:


> No, have not tried the AKG.  You know, JBL, AKG, etc. now that Samsung owns them, are starting to look like rebrands of each other.  Haven't really been too excited about AKG since they were acquired by Samsung.  For _*accessories*_, Samsung understands the margins are much better vs. the thinner margins on phones and TVs, etc., so you see a heavy dose of mid-grade plastic and fairly inexpensive build quality.  Not to poo-poo the AKG NC700M2, but I'm just not driven to try them.
> 
> That being said, I am very curious about the dyplay TWS with ANC.  Currently $65.99 w/ 10% off coupon.  They're currently in the shopping cart.



mine has just arrived in my country, i might get it in a few days. i also ordered this ANC TWS this winter sale, but it would some time before it would got to me


----------



## CocaCola15 (Jan 8, 2020)

hifi80sman said:


> Not sure if this one has been mentioned here yet, but I just found the Advanced Model X *PLUS *on Amazon for $79.


I had a pair of the Model X when they were on Indiegogo. Not impressed, shrill sound to me, just not a pleasant signature. I was surprised, because Advanced is a reputable outfit. I returned them and Advanced refunded the money. Mind you, I did not have the Model X Plus, maybe they upgraded the SQ. Just not willing to try again, with all the new models/BT tech coming out of CES.


----------



## DigDub

Finally laid my hands on these highly rated buds. Updated to v1.22 firmware, very low white noise.


----------



## d3myz

Well, I'll be damned. NUARL support helped me fix the right N6 Pro bud. So as I mentioned it was stuck on the quick flashing white led and no matter what I tried I could not get it to pair etc. Support told me to reset the left bud hold the main button wait for 3 higher pitched beeps and then once the white light is solid double click. Had to do it twice, but the left bud kicked into reset mode as well. I put them down and waited about 5 min. as instructed until they powered themselves off. Turned them back on waited until the stopped the initialization white flashes, then the flashed fast white again for a couple seconds and BOOM! back to intermittent white flashing. Now the right will pair. Thanks NUARL!!


----------



## d3myz (Jan 9, 2020)

OK, now that I have the N6 Pro's working again, This is a pretty simple comparison to the N6. The N6 is a better all around performer for me. It's def. missing a touch of that high end detail which makes the Pro stand out, but the Pro is just missing so much low end, it still has bass and IMO the Pro has a bit better mids they seem a little veiled in the N6. With that said the N6 is no bass monster, it has an adequate amount and it's accurate and sounds great. They are both really similar but i'm keeping the N6. Also the Pro feels a little better quality with the silicone finish on the exterior and I feel like the pro feels a little heavier maybe the button ring is metal instead of plastic like on the N6, but i'm just speculating. For $30 less it's a winner for me and I found the Auvio's to be the best sounding tips for me on the N6.

Also, I must mention the T1x in comparison is like a combo of the N6 and N6pro. It's truly a beauty. The sound stage is not as wide and the mids are def. fatter on the N6 and pro but on Bass EQ mode it really is incredible for $35-$45. However I can really crank the N6 and the T1X hurts my ears at the same volume as It's def. much brighter. I also really like the N6 pro, damnit. I just wish it had the same bass and as the N6 with all that great detail. More to come.


----------



## Giri2809

DigDub said:


> Finally laid my hands on these highly rated buds. Updated to v1.22 firmware, very low white noise.


After read some review/comments in here , I just order it from AE  & take 2-3 weeks for delivery (unfortunately no local seller provide it)...hope it can come less than that....


----------



## wksoh (Jan 9, 2020)

d3myz said:


> So, I got my Spunky Beats, Finally. Got to say they sound pretty dang good, but the Touch sensors SUCK! they are either overly sensitive or they don't work at all w/o putting them back in the case. Great small form factor, excellent sound and a real leather strap, Tronsmart, you spoil me.  I really like how small they are and they fit almost completely flush so I can use both when sleeping. Unfortunately, I find myself at a point now where all I want to use is my APPs for the transparency and ANC, my twins are 3 and they are constantly screaming and making non-stop noise. I work at home so i pretty much have them in all day and it's a hassle to take them out. with the XM3 I can't hear what anyone is saying anyway. the ambient mode is almost worthless for talking IMO, I really hope sony releases a firmware to boost the mics in them. Anyway, happy Tuesday.



I found the Spunky beats a little too small... or the stem is too short? A little jaw movement and I have to reseat the ear pieces.
BUt you're right,.. I can sleep with them like SSK.
When I up the volume,..I thought the spunky mids start to feel weak under heavy instrumentation (like breaking up or unbalanced volumes - treble gets louder than bass) ,.. kind of like SSK.  When I increase the volume, they seem to cross into sibilance
The mpow M5 feels like there is a lot more power in the mids.... less sibilant at higher volumes - bass increases more evenly with treble increase. 
Though a bit veiled,.. I kind of like the M5. For its power perhaps..?


----------



## Jules7

Custom EQ is finally here for LP2! Update your Soundcore app now!


----------



## bronco1015

hifi80sman said:


> No, have not tried the AKG.  You know, JBL, AKG, etc. now that Samsung owns them, are starting to look like rebrands of each other.  Haven't really been too excited about AKG since they were acquired by Samsung.  For _*accessories*_, Samsung understands the margins are much better vs. the thinner margins on phones and TVs, etc., so you see a heavy dose of mid-grade plastic and fairly inexpensive build quality.  Not to poo-poo the AKG NC700M2, but I'm just not driven to try them.
> 
> That being said, I am very curious about the dyplay TWS with ANC.  Currently $65.99 w/ 10% off coupon.  They're currently in the shopping cart.


on a total whim i just checked the link again, and they're not only back in stock, but free sameday was available. Maybe they'll be here when i get off work.


----------



## Firevortex

wksoh said:


> I found the Spunky beats a little too small... or the stem is too short? A little jaw movement and I have to reseat the ear pieces.
> BUt you're right,.. I can sleep with them like SSK.
> When I up the volume,..I thought the spunky mids start to feel weak under heavy instrumentation (like breaking up or unbalanced volumes - treble gets louder than bass) ,.. kind of like SSK.  When I increase the volume, they seem to cross into sibilance
> The mpow M5 feels like there is a lot more power in the mids.... less sibilant at higher volumes - bass increases more evenly with treble increase.
> Though a bit veiled,.. I kind of like the M5. For its power perhaps..?



Yea they are really small..so small its rather fiddly. I think you might need to change your ear tips. mine fitted perfectly with the spiral dot and the passive isolation on those are jabra quality. i think you hearing sibilance is due to the fit. 
i dont have the mpow M5 but they sound better than the popular cheap QCY earphones which goes for the same price.


----------



## Firevortex

bronco1015 said:


> on a total whim i just checked the link again, and they're not only back in stock, but free sameday was available. Maybe they'll be here when i get off work.



do you guys really think PU & Cashmere diaphragms are for real? with the specs listed it pretty much kills most of the flagship ANC earphones out now.


----------



## Toom

Can you guys please talk about brands I have actually, you know, heard of and recognise? Sometimes I think Head-fi is written in Klingon.


----------



## chinmie

Toom said:


> Can you guys please talk about brands I have actually, you know, heard of and recognise? Sometimes I think Head-fi is written in Klingon.



please list every single brand you know


----------



## Toom

chinmie said:


> please list every single brand you know



Oh, I dunno - Sony, Sennheiser, Jabra. Might be one or two more.

Anyway, question on the Sennheiser MTWs, which I have and love - does anyone know if by setting the EQ in the app, that EQ then applies to the buds regardless of device you're connected to? Or am I being incredibly naieve?


----------



## Rickyearl

Hey, don’t know if these are any good, but there’s a deal on the Monster Clarity Airlinks 101 (the one that has a case that looks like a pocket bottle of AXE body spray).  They’re $40 right now and they come in green ( also blue and black).  That green was too much for me to resist.  

https://slickdeals.net/share/iphone_app/t/13787084


----------



## chinmie

Toom said:


> Oh, I dunno - Sony, Sennheiser, Jabra. Might be one or two more.
> 
> Anyway, question on the Sennheiser MTWs, which I have and love - does anyone know if by setting the EQ in the app, that EQ then applies to the buds regardless of device you're connected to? Or am I being incredibly naieve?



as a matter of fact, we do happen to talk about those brands that you mentioned here, but seeing how fast the progress  and competition of TWS, the brands becomes more varied now here. the good thing is we're exposed to vast new options outside the big brand players. and there are many great products coming from those lesser well known companies  

for the MTW, sadly i don't have it, but from my experience with my XM3 and Galaxy buds, they do save their settings on the unit. to do a simple test, try give your MTW an EQ setting (give it an extreme one for easier identification), and then pair them to a new device. if it sounds the same as your last EQ, then it saves on the unit. if not, then it saves on the app


----------



## Toom

chinmie said:


> as a matter of fact, we do happen to talk about those brands that you mentioned here, but seeing how fast the progress  and competition of TWS, the brands becomes more varied now here. the good thing is we're exposed to vast new options outside the big brand players. and there are many great products coming from those lesser well known companies
> 
> for the MTW, sadly i don't have it, but from my experience with my XM3 and Galaxy buds, they do save their settings on the unit. to do a simple test, try give your MTW an EQ setting (give it an extreme one for easier identification), and then pair them to a new device. if it sounds the same as your last EQ, then it saves on the unit. if not, then it saves on the app



Cheers, will do.  What does the S mean in TWS, by the way?


----------



## d3myz (Jan 9, 2020)

Jules7 said:


> Custom EQ is finally here for LP2! Update your Soundcore app now!


Awesome! I had to delete the app and reinstall it, but I see it now.

Man, this Graphic EQ is kind of a game changer. Maybe I don't need the Nuarls.


----------



## chinmie

Toom said:


> Cheers, will do.  What does the S mean in TWS, by the way?



it stands for Stereo, if I'm not mistaken


----------



## clerkpalmer

d3myz said:


> OK, now that I have the N6 Pro's working again, This is a pretty simple comparison to the N6. The N6 is a better all around performer for me. It's def. missing a touch of that high end detail which makes the Pro stand out, but the Pro is just missing so much low end, it still has bass and IMO the Pro has a bit better mids they seem a little veiled in the N6. With that said the N6 is no bass monster, it has an adequate amount and it's accurate and sounds great. They are both really similar but i'm keeping the N6. Also the Pro feels a little better quality with the silicone finish on the exterior and I feel like the pro feels a little heavier maybe the button ring is metal instead of plastic like on the N6, but i'm just speculating. For $30 less it's a winner for me and I found the Auvio's to be the best sounding tips for me on the N6.
> 
> Also, I must mention the T1x in comparison is like a combo of the N6 and N6pro. It's truly a beauty. The sound stage is not as wide and the mids are def. fatter on the N6 and pro but on Bass EQ mode it really is incredible for $35-$45. However I can really crank the N6 and the T1X hurts my ears at the same volume as It's def. much brighter. I also really like the N6 pro, damnit. I just wish it had the same bass and as the N6 with all that great detail. More to come.



Is the pro really that light on bass? I mean, since they called it “pro” it HAS to be better right?


----------



## HiFlight

I have had my Nuarl N6 Pro for several days now and can share a few general subjective comments:

They are smaller than I had expected based on photos.
Fit is excellent; very secure and unobtrusive.
Connection is rock-solid.  Nearly instantaneous pairing.
Imaging and soundstage precise and realistic.
Instrumental and vocal timbre nearly flawless.
Able to reveal subtle details in well-mastered recordings.
Build quality of both buds and case is superb.

Nits:
Buttons are rather difficult to identity by touch.
Easy to inadvertently press buttons when inserting.
Upper treble can be brash at times.
 Intolerant of poorly mastered recordings. 
Needs a quality app to fully explore capabilities.


----------



## Toom

chinmie said:


> it stands for Stereo, if I'm not mistaken



Why? Lol. Should just be TW really.


----------



## d3myz

HiFlight said:


> I have had my Nuarl N6 Pro for several days now and can share a few general subjective comments:
> 
> They are smaller than I had expected based on photos.
> Fit is excellent; very secure and unobtrusive.
> ...



Great impressions, mine are near identical. I am pretty amazed how poorly they handle some recordings. I too would like an app to add some low end to them. I found the N6 to be very similar almost identical but tuned with more bass and slightly less detail.


----------



## Mouseman

Jules7 said:


> Custom EQ is finally here for LP2! Update your Soundcore app now!


How awesome! It would be nice if you could see the pre-set EQs and adjust them as a custom setting, but I'm not complaining. Having an actual EQ makes them absolutely amazing -- we don't have to settle on making do with the existing ones.

I hope Fiil will add that to their app. That would be great.


----------



## d3myz

clerkpalmer said:


> Is the pro really that light on bass? I mean, since they called it “pro” it HAS to be better right?


They sound great, but There's just not enough bass for me. If you liked the MW07, you'll love the N6 Pro. I think they are better in every way, they have decent bass, just no sub bass, they are cross over quite high for my taste.


----------



## randytsuch

Just got a pair of fiio utws1's.
Sound good, but connection is kind of sucky.  Hard to connect first time, and was just using and keep getting glitches.  Turned them off, pulled out my bt20 and they are rock solid, no glitches.

Anyone else have them, and see this?
Don't know if they are defective?

Randy


----------



## chinmie

Toom said:


> Why? Lol. Should just be TW really.



i don't know, I'm not the one who comes up with that 

probably to differentiate from the older, single ear- mono true wireless ones that people use for phone calls


----------



## Sam L (Jan 9, 2020)

d3myz said:


> OK, now that I have the N6 Pro's working again, This is a pretty simple comparison to the N6. The N6 is a better all around performer for me. It's def. missing a touch of that high end detail which makes the Pro stand out, but the Pro is just missing so much low end, it still has bass and IMO the Pro has a bit better mids they seem a little veiled in the N6. With that said the N6 is no bass monster, it has an adequate amount and it's accurate and sounds great. They are both really similar but i'm keeping the N6. Also the Pro feels a little better quality with the silicone finish on the exterior and I feel like the pro feels a little heavier maybe the button ring is metal instead of plastic like on the N6, but i'm just speculating. For $30 less it's a winner for me and I found the Auvio's to be the best sounding tips for me on the N6.
> 
> Also, I must mention the T1x in comparison is like a combo of the N6 and N6pro. It's truly a beauty. The sound stage is not as wide and the mids are def. fatter on the N6 and pro but on Bass EQ mode it really is incredible for $35-$45. However I can really crank the N6 and the T1X hurts my ears at the same volume as It's def. much brighter. I also really like the N6 pro, damnit. I just wish it had the same bass and as the N6 with all that great detail. More to come.





Toom said:


> Can you guys please talk about brands I have actually, you know, heard of and recognise? Sometimes I think Head-fi is written in Klingon.



Haha.... Fair enough. However, this thread definitely has become biased towards chi-fi brands, but for good reason - - cfi-fi brands are iterating more quickly than the larger, widely recognized brands.


----------



## C_Lindbergh

Yeah, the few well known brands that does make TWS usually doesn't deliver when it comes to price to performance ratio.

I would deffo pay more for a well known brand if they start to deliver on the software front. 

Chi Fi got you cowered were it comes to pure audio quality, but what I want from a more expensive brand is awesome software features.


----------



## HiFlight

Regarding the N6 Pro bass or lack thereof, I personally find it to be well-balanced tonally.  I chose the Pro as I am not a fan of boosted bass.  I am fully satisfied with the stock bass level.
That said, it would be really nice to have an app to create custom settings!


----------



## Grayson73

Rickyearl said:


> Hey, don’t know if these are any good, but there’s a deal on the Monster Clarity Airlinks 101 (the one that has a case that looks like a pocket bottle of AXE body spray).  They’re $40 right now and they come in green ( also blue and black).  That green was too much for me to resist.
> 
> https://slickdeals.net/share/iphone_app/t/13787084



Looking forward to your review!


----------



## SaveTheMantaRays

Absolutely love the NUARL N6 period.  Especially with old Comply Sport foams.  either T500 or T100, cannot remember.

The sound signature sounds like real live sounding music.


----------



## Luchyres

d3myz said:


> OK, now that I have the N6 Pro's working again, This is a pretty simple comparison to the N6. The N6 is a better all around performer for me. It's def. missing a touch of that high end detail which makes the Pro stand out, but the Pro is just missing so much low end, it still has bass and IMO the Pro has a bit better mids they seem a little veiled in the N6. With that said the N6 is no bass monster, it has an adequate amount and it's accurate and sounds great. They are both really similar but i'm keeping the N6. Also the Pro feels a little better quality with the silicone finish on the exterior and I feel like the pro feels a little heavier maybe the button ring is metal instead of plastic like on the N6, but i'm just speculating. For $30 less it's a winner for me and I found the Auvio's to be the best sounding tips for me on the N6.
> 
> Also, I must mention the T1x in comparison is like a combo of the N6 and N6pro. It's truly a beauty. The sound stage is not as wide and the mids are def. fatter on the N6 and pro but on Bass EQ mode it really is incredible for $35-$45. However I can really crank the N6 and the T1X hurts my ears at the same volume as It's def. much brighter. I also really like the N6 pro, damnit. I just wish it had the same bass and as the N6 with all that great detail. More to come.



If someone forced your hand, and you could only get one of the two shipped to your island - and you could run them fully EQ'ed with your preferred source - and they cost the exact same - which would you keep? (N6 vs N6 Pro Eq'd for bass) ?

Thanks for the impressions!


----------



## hifi80sman

Grayson73 said:


> Looking forward to your review!


Me too.  Haven't tried Monster in a while.  Looks like they're trying to make a comeback.


----------



## hifi80sman

OK, degenerates.  Taking the leap on the Advanced Model X+.  Should have them today, so we shall see!  Threw in the Status Audio on-ears for good measure.


----------



## Spamateur

SaveTheMantaRays said:


> Absolutely love the NUARL N6 period.  Especially with old Comply Sport foams.  either T500 or T100, cannot remember.
> 
> The sound signature sounds like real live sounding music.



What size (S,M,L) of the Comply tips are you using? Do they fit well in the charging case?


----------



## dweaver

clerkpalmer said:


> Is the pro really that light on bass? I mean, since they called it “pro” it HAS to be better right?



My experience is pro is a headphone title usually means a more balanced signature. This generally means the product will not be bassy enough for some people. As to which is "better" it all boils down to preference...


----------



## d3myz

Luchyres said:


> If someone forced your hand, and you could only get one of the two shipped to your island - and you could run them fully EQ'ed with your preferred source - and they cost the exact same - which would you keep? (N6 vs N6 Pro Eq'd for bass) ?
> 
> Thanks for the impressions!


Damn, that's a good question. Pro for sure. IF I could get it to have the same amount of bass as the N6. I've eq'd it in spotify and it wasn't great IMO. My problem with the N6 is that while it has more bass, the way the mid bass is eq'd it seems to mask the detail the N6 pro has. As was mentioned by @Spamateur another thing that is disappointing is that both the N6 and Pro don't do a great job with poorly mastered tracks. The L2pro however seems to really excel with anything I throw at it.  I've been playing with the L2pro Version 3 today and with the new Manual EQ it really gives the Nuarls a run for their money. Even though I still feel the N6 and Pro's soundstage is better.


----------



## d3myz (Jan 9, 2020)

Here's my current EQ or the L2 pro, Version 3. Still playing with it, but with a lot of my newer rock/alternative tracks, this sounds pretty good. Props to Soundcore, but i'm an adult, Anker, I can handle adjusting the Lows. sheesh.


----------



## Spamateur

Toom said:


> Can you guys please talk about brands I have actually, you know, heard of and recognise? Sometimes I think Head-fi is written in Klingon.



There's been plenty of talk about Jabra, Sony, Sennheiser, Bose in the past. Unfortunately none of these companies have released anything new lately, and to be frank none of the big, established names are doing anything interesting in the TW space except maaaaybe Sony with the XM3. A lot of little-known companies are jumping into that space as there's a clear demand, and to be frank a lot of them are putting out much better sounding TW models than the big boys. The bigger companies have much longer product lifecycles and don't seem to be as nimble in terms of iterating products to improve them.


----------



## Spamateur

d3myz said:


> Here's my current EQ or the L2 pro, Version 3. Still playing with it, but with a lot of my newer rock/alternative tracks, this sounds pretty good. Props to Soundcore, but i'm an adult, Anker, I can handle adjusting the Lows. sheesh.




Damn, it only goes down to 100Hz?


----------



## d3myz

I'll stop spamming the thread, I promise. 

Here's another L2Pro EQ setting that sounds awesome to me.


----------



## C_Lindbergh

Spamateur said:


> There's been plenty of talk about Jabra, Sony, Sennheiser, Bose in the past. Unfortunately none of these companies have released anything new lately, and to be frank none of the big, established names are doing anything interesting in the TW space except maaaaybe Sony with the XM3. A lot of little-known companies are jumping into that space as there's a clear demand, and to be frank a lot of them are putting out much better sounding TW models than the big boys. The bigger companies have much longer product lifecycles and don't seem to be as nimble in terms of iterating products to improve them.



Jabra released their 75t few months back, and the Active version of it will be released soon. But overall yeah, none of the big audio companies really stand out.


----------



## Rob E.

d3myz said:


> ...As was mentioned by @Spamateur another thing that is disappointing is that both the N6 and Pro don't do a great job with poorly mastered tracks. The L2pro however seems to really excel with anything I throw at it.  ...



Think about what you're saying. An ideal speaker / transducer, should be true to the source, resolving as much information from the signal that it can without adding its own colorations to the overall SQ. It should reveal what's there and get out of its own way. From what you've described, the N6 Pro is very good in this regard. That said, it's doing what it should do with a poorly mastered recording, which is being truthful to the source. Asking it to sound otherwise, is asking it to color the sound. You can't have your cake and eat it too. JMO, Fwiw.


----------



## d3myz

Spamateur said:


> Damn, it only goes down to 100Hz?


Yea man, but it's better than Sony's. I forgot to mention, i'm using the stock L2pro tips. I'm having so much fun with this. taking out the 6.4 and 12.8 is a game changer for me. if you have the L2pro, play with this and then put the NUARL's in, it's crazy man. the L2pro tuned right is a straight KILLER. Still the NUARL has something different and special about it, they are both just awesome.


----------



## d3myz

Rob E. said:


> Think about what you're saying. An ideal speaker / transducer, should be true to the source, resolving as much information from the signal that it can without adding its own colorations to the overall SQ. It should reveal what's there and get out of its own way. From what you've described, the N6 Pro is very good in this regard. That said, it's doing what it should do with a poorly mastered recording, which is being truthful to the source. Asking it to sound otherwise, is asking it to color the sound. You can't have your cake and eat it too. JMO, Fwiw.


Well, we might as well just say to hell with all Digital Sound Processing.  If I was playing on stage or mixing an album, i'd want accurate flat sound, but I'm not. I understand there's a use for both, but in my experience good audio equipment can make almost anything you put through it sound great. The L2pro is a prime example. I see your logic, but I'm not sure how many of us want pure accurate sound, If so we wouldn't be using digital audio at all etc.


----------



## Sam L

Rob E. said:


> Think about what you're saying. An ideal speaker / transducer, should be true to the source, resolving as much information from the signal that it can without adding its own colorations to the overall SQ. It should reveal what's there and get out of its own way. From what you've described, the N6 Pro is very good in this regard. That said, it's doing what it should do with a poorly mastered recording, which is being truthful to the source. Asking it to sound otherwise, is asking it to color the sound. You can't have your cake and eat it too. JMO, Fwiw.



this sort of observation, while making logical sense, concerns one of the things in the audiophile world that defy logic. Kind of like whether burn-in is a real thing or if PRaT is real.


----------



## Mouseman

Spamateur said:


> Damn, it only goes down to 100Hz?


I guess the 10 Grammy Award winning producers decided that's all we need.


----------



## jant71 (Jan 9, 2020)

Sam L said:


> this sort of observation, while making logical sense, concerns one of the things in the audiophile world that defy logic. Kind of like whether burn-in is a real thing or if PRaT is real.



Um, Pace, Rythym, and Timing don't exist if all earphones have the same speed(Pace) and elements like cymbal strikes happen at the same time(Timing) and yes, the rythym part is where is goes bad cause of no concensus on what is meant by rythym but it should be the in the bass and the most evident bass element the most focus is on. So, the rythym of a bass guitar highlighting earphone has a different rythym than one that throws a sub bass kick at you over that same bass guitar and other bass elements. Some music where there is a very simple bass beat makes for argument about rythym but not much to say about rythym if not much is there in the music. Again, the debate starts and can go into which bass frequencies but don't go there cause that is where it all goes wrong. PRaT is not used very much anyway due to people not knowing what it really means and not doing a good job of describing it. It is easier to understand when heard more than described on a forum much like seeing a color than describing a color in words. That is just rythym and then you are adding in the speed and timing elements making the whole concept one of the tougher concepts to describe and understand but of course it exists.


Okay, do we have a four driver yet??? Maybe nuts but is seems to sound like it changes EQ by changing the drivers being used 




The world's first 8 drivers TWS earphone

Touch operate

4 drivers per side

Bluetooth V5.0

IPX5 waterproof

3 kinds of sound mode

*Exquisite workmanship, quality assurance*

High performance large particle ceramic antenna with excellent radio signal isolation space design makes signal more stable. Add smart processor to make earphone operation faster and more sensitive.5 micron turmeric PCBA, separate audio cable, cleaner sound quality, more details.

*Wearing stable and comfortable, fashion in sports*

Up to a year of design and improvement, the shape and structure of the earphones accord with ergonomic, wearing more stable and comfortable.

Compared with other TWS earphones, the bulk decreased by 20% and the battery capacity increased by 20%.The capacity of the same bulk battery case is increased by 30%.

*Black technology brand, speak with technology*

Original ecological EQ, pure hardware technology, adopts self-developed MEAOES (multiple audio experiences) technology (3 invention patents and 4 utility model patents), and utilizes the working state of the driver, multi-line frequency division, combination of various types of drivers and other hardware designs to achieve a variety of sound effects.

*Balanced armature*

Composite diaphragm driver, composite diaphragm design, responsible for the middle and high frequency, there is a rounded middle frequency and high resolution high frequency, high frequency earphone details rich, round and listenable, vocal exquisite.

*Dynamic driver*

The titanium diaphragm dynamic on the composite dome is responsible for low frequency, deep diving, strong elasticity, high resolution, strong sense of music layers and good low frequency atmosphere.

*Piezoelectric ceramic driver*

Composite dual piezoelectric ceramic driver, 10 layers diaphragm high capacitance design, responsible for ultra-high frequency, can extend to 40kHz frequency response range, enhance the sound field of the earphones, enhance music background details, three-frequency is more balanced

*Dynamic + Piezoelectric ceramic mode*

Piezoelectric ceramic driver (ultra-high frequency) + dynamic driver (full frequency)

big Transverse sound field , high sound density , warm, strong heavy bass, high frequency background rich details , voice is warm and thick, low frequency is better flexibility, deep diving, have excellent performance on heavy bass, rock, DJ, pop jazz and other song styles.

*BA + Dynamic mode*

Balanced armature (medium and high frequency) + dynamic driver (low frequency)

clean sound background , high resolution, good sound density , listenable and comfortable, high frequency cohesion is good, vocal is exquisite, low frequency flexibility is good, diving deep, Have excellent performance on ACG, pop, jazz, rock, vocal, DJ and other song styles.

*Hybrid mode *

Piezoelectric ceramic driver (ultra-high frequency) + balanced armature (high frequency) + dynamic driver(low frequency)

large and wide sound field , rich details, high resolution , good permeability, instrument extension is good details, vocal is clear and bright, low frequency diving deep and elastic. Suitable music style widely. Have excellent performance on ACG, pop, jazz, rock, vocal, DJ and other song styles.
https://penonaudio.com/geekfly-gf8.html

Yeah, only 4 hours, but not bad given the configuration which has to be a battery hog.


----------



## howdy

Im not able to update my L2Ps to get the eq. Is it not available to everyone?


----------



## Kulch (Jan 9, 2020)

If anybody is wondering you can get the xaiomi Fiil T1X on Ali express. They are under the normal T1 model you just need to select the right version. I'm waiting for the price drop (Amazon don't ship to Australia)
US $67.19  20%OFF | Xiaomi FIIL T1 True Wireless Bluetooth Earphones Bluetooth 5.0 Waterproof Sport Running Earplugs Touch Noise Cancelling with Mic
https://a.aliexpress.com/lMlmbMjW

Are they better than the legendary ANBES 359?


----------



## hifi80sman

howdy said:


> Im not able to update my L2Ps to get the eq. Is it not available to everyone?


I tried to update on both iOS and Android, but I too have not been able to update beyond 1.22.


----------



## d3myz

Mouseman said:


> I guess the 10 Grammy Award winning producers decided that's all we need.


That's better than 1 out of 10 Dentists....


----------



## d3myz

howdy said:


> Im not able to update my L2Ps to get the eq. Is it not available to everyone?


Did you delete the app and re-download it? That's how I got mine.


----------



## d3myz

hifi80sman said:


> I tried to update on both iOS and Android, but I too have not been able to update beyond 1.22.


It's not a firmware update, just an app update. I don't know if you have to be on the latest firmware to get it. a couple months ago I reached out to sound core, gave them the serial number in my app and they pushed the new firmware to me.


----------



## bronco1015

Firevortex said:


> do you guys really think PU & Cashmere diaphragms are for real? with the specs listed it pretty much kills most of the flagship ANC earphones out now.


tbh no. I don't have much faith in this DPlay. No reviews on amazon after being listed there for 4 months it says, the only review i could find of them was from this kid probably 12, I tried to give it a shot but he was so anoying to listen to; i made it like 30 seconds in to the video. i kind of regret ordering them.


----------



## hifi80sman

d3myz said:


> That's better than 1 out of 10 Dentists....


Hmm, I wonder if that's related to mumble rap...


----------



## bronco1015

Toom said:


> Oh, I dunno - Sony, Sennheiser, Jabra. Might be one or two more.
> 
> Anyway, question on the Sennheiser MTWs, which I have and love - does anyone know if by setting the EQ in the app, that EQ then applies to the buds regardless of device you're connected to? Or am I being incredibly naieve?


IF this has already been answered then disregard, i'm just catching up. The MTWs are probably my favorite. The eq does save on the iems, not in the app.


----------



## hifi80sman

d3myz said:


> It's not a firmware update, just an app update. I don't know if you have to be on the latest firmware to get it. a couple months ago I reached out to sound core, gave them the serial number in my app and they pushed the new firmware to me.


Yep, that worked.  Thanks!


----------



## bronco1015 (Jan 9, 2020)

Rob E. said:


> Think about what you're saying. An ideal speaker / transducer, should be true to the source, resolving as much information from the signal that it can without adding its own colorations to the overall SQ. It should reveal what's there and get out of its own way. From what you've described, the N6 Pro is very good in this regard. That said, it's doing what it should do with a poorly mastered recording, which is being truthful to the source. Asking it to sound otherwise, is asking it to color the sound. You can't have your cake and eat it too. JMO, Fwiw.


My thoughts exactly. Meaning ideally by default that's a worthy goal to shoot for, maybe that's a default. maybe a default for closedback, openback twe etc, determined by the tech, engineering etc. but having both i think is not only possible, but awesome. i mean, that's part of the reason i enjoy so many different headphones etc. And it's also why i have a loki on my desktop and play with eq in an app. having that option to be as true to the music is amazing! But so is playing with the sound. and i think that experimentation is what leads to genres and sub-genres in music as well. and recording music. E.G. I've heard often, don't know if it's true or not, that Bonham recorded that drum track for when the levi breaks in a stairwell. you couldn't have that unique sound by playing the drums just anywhere.


----------



## falang

hifi80sman said:


> Yep, that worked.  Thanks!



Weird...did not work for me on Android.  Even after clearing the cache of the app.


----------



## howdy

hifi80sman said:


> Yep, that worked.  Thanks!


How? I uninstalled the app and in BT settings forgot the device and then reloaded everything and I still don't see the Eq.


----------



## hifi80sman

howdy said:


> How? I uninstalled the app and in BT settings forgot the device and then reloaded everything and I still don't see the Eq.


iOS or Android?  I removed it from my iPhone, then just downloaded/installed it again and it worked.  I'm on firmware 1.22.


----------



## howdy

hifi80sman said:


> iOS or Android?  I removed it from my iPhone, then just downloaded/installed it again and it worked.  I'm on firmware 1.22.


Android


----------



## edog45

howdy said:


> Android


I'm using Android also along with firmware 1.22 and no custom EQ for me either. I uninstalled and reinstalled nothing changes.


----------



## hifi80sman

edog45 said:


> I'm using Android also along with firmware 1.22 and no custom EQ for me either. I uninstalled and reinstalled nothing changes.


Yeah, looks like it may only be for iOS right now.  When I go to the App Store, the new app shows as released yesterday, but when going to the Google Play Store, the last release of the Soundcore app was on 11/28/2019.


----------



## bronco1015

Alrighty. so, those Dplay twes just came in. Spent about 10 mins with them.
Thoughts; man these are FUUUGLYYYY! And fake. not to mention a pain in the ass to fit. small tips were fine, but the twe themselves are just shaped terribly.
They do actually have ANC, and it's even noticable. it's activated by double tapping the lefft bud, then theres a prompting that says 'noise canceling on' 'noise canceling off' I tested it by standing next to my loud furnace, and the noise of it was reduced, though not by a huge amount. But was a bit mor effective than i antisipated while getting them paired, fitted etc.
The SQ reminds me of a cheaper sounding Backbeat pro 5100 with tighter bass though. But mids sound a bit not muffled but trapped if you will. honestly if they'd been say $20ish and shaped differently, i would have considered keeping them. They really don't sound half bad all things considered.
They charge via USB, the lip of the top of the case tends to catch on the case itself, but case is otherwise built pretty well.
i'd say look for something from these guys in a different form factor and maybe $25-40, and they could be worth picking up.


----------



## cwill

This snare tho.


----------



## hifi80sman (Jan 9, 2020)

So far, digging the Advanced Model X+.  They advertise deep sub-bass and elevated low treble, which is what I'm hearing.  It's an overall warm signature with the upper treble toned down (which I enjoy) and is an overall relaxed signature that doesn't sound harsh.  I love the L2Ps, but they can get a bit harsh after a while.  The touch controls are also very responsive, and dare I say it, but perhaps the most responsive touch controls in a TWS that I've experienced.  Fit and ergonomics are great.

Going to the gym with these and will see how these end up working out in terms of connection quality, etc., but so far, so good (at my desk).


----------



## hifi80sman

cwill said:


> This snare tho.


----------



## cwill

hifi80sman said:


>



That's great.


----------



## clerkpalmer

hifi80sman said:


> So far, digging the Advanced Model X+.  They advertise deep sub-bass and elevated low treble, which is what I'm hearing.  It's an overall warm signature with the upper treble toned down (which I enjoy) and is an overall relaxed signature that doesn't sound harsh.  I love the L2Ps, but they can get a bit harsh after a while.  The touch controls are also very responsive, and dare I say it, but perhaps the most responsive touch controls in a TWS that I've experienced.  Fit and ergonomics are great.
> 
> Going to the gym with these and will see how these end up working out in terms of connection quality, etc., but so far, so good (at my desk).



I have the original model x. I think the sq is the same as the new. I LOVE them for the gym and cycling. Sound signature is super duper fun. Perfect beater tws for me. I think I ruined them with sweat sadly but that’s not ADVANCED’s fault. Didn’t realize they were on amazon.


----------



## Robius

I was looking for an apple style semi in-ear tws earbuds and came across these: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000319110354.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.e78c4c4dileAMl

Much cheaper than Sabbat X12 Pro and battery life is good. Charging case is a little childish tho. Let's see how it sounds.


----------



## chinmie

bronco1015 said:


> Alrighty. so, those Dplay twes just came in. Spent about 10 mins with them.
> Thoughts; man these are FUUUGLYYYY! And fake. not to mention a pain in the ass to fit. small tips were fine, but the twe themselves are just shaped terribly.
> They do actually have ANC, and it's even noticable. it's activated by double tapping the lefft bud, then theres a prompting that says 'noise canceling on' 'noise canceling off' I tested it by standing next to my loud furnace, and the noise of it was reduced, though not by a huge amount. But was a bit mor effective than i antisipated while getting them paired, fitted etc.
> The SQ reminds me of a cheaper sounding Backbeat pro 5100 with tighter bass though. But mids sound a bit not muffled but trapped if you will. honestly if they'd been say $20ish and shaped differently, i would have considered keeping them. They really don't sound half bad all things considered.
> ...



is this the one that you're talking about?? 


 

I've just read your impression and the mailman rang my door 
unboxing it now


----------



## chinmie

so I've been testing this Dyplay BQC35 ANC (which is a product that they resell, as they are other seller on AE selling the same product).

build quality
this is quite good, the plastic is like those QCYs, so not bad, but not premium looking either.

fit
it's a bit chunky, but sits rather well in my ears. it comes with 3 pairs of tips, but it seems like the size is S and two M, so i resort to some symbio peels. it doesn't passively block outside noise too much, even with the tips forming a seal. it's like the Nillkin Go in the level of isolation. the XM3 blocks more noise passively than this. the plus side is, there's no thumping also when walking. pushing it deeper also doesn't cause vacuum effect.

ANC
surprisingly, it works rather nicely. though because of the less than stellar passive noise blocking, higher frequency sound like voices, etc are not reduced too much. but for rumble noise it's surprisingly works. also my unit doesn't have any background hiss that i noticed either with ANC on/off. i was a bit worried about that because some reviews in AE says their unit have those low hiss.

Sound
this thing reminds me of un-EQed Jabra 65T. overall clean sound, not muffled on treble, with big midbass, but with fast bass attack, rather good 3d soundstage information, and backed of mids. like the 65T, i wouldn't say this is warm sounding, but rather clinical sounding, but with big bass.

I'll test this tomorrow for motorcycle ride, but i have good feeling this would perform well in that scenario

here's a size comparison between the BQC35 (a play on the Bose QC35 i suppose ) to the T1C and WFXM3


----------



## bronco1015

chinmie said:


> is this the one that you're talking about??
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I'm totally blind, but based on your post right after the one i'm replying to where you mention the model number, yes same ones. i am not a fan of the design at all. one thing i forgot to mention is that i didn't feel like the SQ changed at all with the anc on. There were times i'd hear balance of audio shifting slightly as it was turned on and off, but don't remember anything else changing sound wise.


----------



## chinmie

bronco1015 said:


> I'm totally blind, but based on your post right after the one i'm replying to where you mention the model number, yes same ones. i am not a fan of the design at all. one thing i forgot to mention is that i didn't feel like the SQ changed at all with the anc on. There were times i'd hear balance of audio shifting slightly as it was turned on and off, but don't remember anything else changing sound wise.



yup, i also didn't notice any significant changes in SQ between the ANC on/off. 

have you tried it with other eartips? i like the fact that the case can fit most of my other single flange tips


----------



## bronco1015

chinmie said:


> yup, i also didn't notice any significant changes in SQ between the ANC on/off.
> 
> have you tried it with other eartips? i like the fact that the case can fit most of my other single flange tips


i haven't, only because yes i was able to get a great seal, but the iem itself is just to chunky for my ears.


----------



## SoundChoice

SaveTheMantaRays said:


> If I had all that stuff already I wouldn't bother.  I have T5 and T1X.  And just got NUARL N6.  I haven't even thought about the other ones.
> 
> The T1X is awesome.  But mainly for the price point.


How does T1X compare to Nuarl N6?


----------



## Bartig

I just published my review for the Fiil T1X, for those of you interested.


----------



## Bartig

clerkpalmer said:


> Thanks. Should I be drinking the cool aid on these? I ended up with the Anbes, T5 and B530 after being convinced they were life changing. They are all collecting dust while I turn to my APP and L2p. If these compete with the libertys, I would take a run at them. Thanks all.


Well, I added a comparison between the Fiil T1X and L2P in my review...


----------



## bubsdaddy

I bought the Fiil T1X and I hope to use it for running. How do the wings work? I am trying to get a fit with the wings but they pop out. Am I supposed to rotate them up toward the top of the ear or down to the mid ear?


----------



## gibletzor

Is the Fiil app gone from the Google Play Store for anyone else?   I had it downloaded before I sent the last pair back for the driver flex, now I can't download it again....


----------



## chinmie

This Dyplay BQC35 is really growing on me. I usually prefer light sounding IEMs, but the bass on this is addicting. The thump of the bass is big but fast, it's  closer to the WH XM3 headphone than to the WF XM3 TWS. 

I used this on the gym and walking on the way home. No or minimal thumping on this, so nice for running, although with ANC on there's those whooshing wind sound, so it's better with ANC off when running.

The slight bleed of the passive noise blocking turns out a blessing in disguise. With ANC off it's like having a bit of ambient sound, so having conversation is good.

For me personally this is a keeper. Can't  wait to compare this to the Airsun X7 ANC that I've just purchased


----------



## Sam L

d3myz said:


> Yea man, but it's better than Sony's. I forgot to mention, i'm using the stock L2pro tips. I'm having so much fun with this. taking out the 6.4 and 12.8 is a game changer for me. if you have the L2pro, play with this and then put the NUARL's in, it's crazy man. the L2pro tuned right is a straight KILLER. Still the NUARL has something different and special about it, they are both just awesome.



woah, hold on... I thought the freq resp for the sonys reach down to 20hz? or at least by design, totally different question as to whether they actually deliver on the low end.


----------



## C_Lindbergh

Just ordered the FIIL T1X TWS off Amazon (To Europe via MyUSA.com), might as well buy these cheap pair until the bigger names starts releasing their next gen of TWS


----------



## Sam L (Jan 10, 2020)

jant71 said:


> Um, Pace, Rythym, and Timing don't exist if all earphones have the same speed(Pace) and elements like cymbal strikes happen at the same time(Timing) and yes, the rythym part is where is goes bad cause of no concensus on what is meant by rythym but it should be the in the bass and the most evident bass element the most focus is on. So, the rythym of a bass guitar highlighting earphone has a different rythym than one that throws a sub bass kick at you over that same bass guitar and other bass elements. Some music where there is a very simple bass beat makes for argument about rythym but not much to say about rythym if not much is there in the music. Again, the debate starts and can go into which bass frequencies but don't go there cause that is where it all goes wrong. PRaT is not used very much anyway due to people not knowing what it really means and not doing a good job of describing it. It is easier to understand when heard more than described on a forum much like seeing a color than describing a color in words. That is just rythym and then you are adding in the speed and timing elements making the whole concept one of the tougher concepts to describe and understand but of course it exists.



Thank you for detailing your thoughts on prat. I think you did a great summary of the various elements of discussion around the reality of prat, and I do agree that it doesn't seem passe anymore.

However, just as with burn-in, I think regardless of the scientific basis (or lack thereof) concerning widely accepted aural descriptors, there is validity in using these terms within the understanding of how the audiophile community has accepted them.

As an example, I don't believe "burn-in" is a real, physical phenomenon. I revisit the issue every 3 or 4 years and the results are always the same in my mind -- no hard evidence for the existence of the concept. BUT, I still use the term because I believe the psycho-acoustical concept of burn-in is very real.

So with PRaT, I consider it a legit term in describing a very specific observation concerning the "musicality" of audio equipment. Incidentally, I'm not comfortable using PRaT in the same sentence as TWS earphones, yet.


----------



## Bartig

Oh man, I can't count anymore how much time went into this. This is my top 5 of best TWS under $100.

Yeah, the Fiil T1X is a winner...


----------



## Sam L

Bartig said:


> Oh man, I can't count anymore how much time went into this. This is my top 5 of best TWS under $100.
> 
> Yeah, the Fiil T1X is a winner...



Great review. Interesting to see the MTW100 still hold a place in the top 3.


----------



## gibletzor

Bingo!  My new pair of T1X don't have the awful driver flex my last pair had!


----------



## vladzakhar

After extensive use of Nuarl N6 Pro and N6 I want to keep them both. N6 is perfect for EDM music and N6 pro is better for vocal tracks, rock and  jazzy material. Both models are great all rounders TWS. Worth every penny.


----------



## Sam L (Jan 10, 2020)

Sam L said:


> Great review. Interesting to see the MTW100 still hold a place in the top 3.



ah, f#$k... misplaced my Airpod Pros. damn. Reminds me why I got into chi-fi in the first place -- I kept losing my earphones.  But it's been 3 or 4 years since I last lost a pair. argh.

I'm going to stop by BestBuy and pick up a pair of wf-1000xm3's since I've been sitting on the fence on those for months. Anything else I should consider? MW07+? ANC is a requirement.


----------



## Sam L (Jan 10, 2020)

.


----------



## voicemaster

Bartig said:


> I just published my review for the Fiil T1X, for those of you interested.


You could add "don't forget to turn on your location setting on your phone to those who can't connect their t1x to their phone" and it works wonderfully. I think fiil is the only company that usee proximity sensor (location) to detect their earbuds.


----------



## cwill

voicemaster said:


> You could add "don't forget to turn on your location setting on your phone to those who can't connect their t1x to their phone" and it works wonderfully. I think fiil is the only company that usee proximity sensor (location) to detect their earbuds.


THIS!


----------



## webvan (Jan 10, 2020)

Been seeing comments about "driver flex", is that the "popping sound" you get when you adjust IEMs and the membrane inside the IEM goes from convex to concave ? In that case the "runner's thump" must be even MORE annoying 



C_Lindbergh said:


> Just ordered the FIIL T1X TWS off Amazon (To Europe via MyUSA.com), might as well buy these cheap pair until the bigger names starts releasing their next gen of TWS



Yeah Europe has yet to see the FIIL T1X become available, how much did it cost you overall via MyUS.com ?

On another matter I got tired of trying to keep the seal with the Bomaker and the M5s so I pulled out the Havit G1s and no such problems with their wings. Actually going forward I think I'll only be getting TWEs that come with *WINGS *as that's really the only way for me to keep the seal (as tested with the Amazon Echo Buds, the L2Ps, the Havit G1s, Jabra Sport Elite). I really find it beyond annoying to have to adjust the buds to get the seal back and after a while it can irritate the ear canal too.


----------



## gibletzor

webvan said:


> Been seeing comments about "driver flex", is that the "popping sound" you get when you adjust IEMs and the membrane inside the IEM goes from convex to concave ? In that case the "runner's thump" must be even MORE annoying
> 
> 
> 
> ...


For me, most IEMs have some degree of driver flex.  The last set of T1Xs I had were so bad that just flexing facial muscles would make them pop and crack.  This new set has a tiny crackle when I put them in, then nothing.


----------



## voicemaster

gibletzor said:


> For me, most IEMs have some degree of driver flex.  The last set of T1Xs I had were so bad that just flexing facial muscles would make them pop and crack.  This new set has a tiny crackle when I put them in, then nothing.


Wow if there is a driver flex from only moving your face then there is definitely a problem. If you only have driver flex when inserting the earbuds then it is pretty normal and can be remedied by simply using foam tips.


----------



## gibletzor

voicemaster said:


> Wow if there is a driver flex from only moving your face then there is definitely a problem. If you only have driver flex when inserting the earbuds then it is pretty normal and can be remedied by simply using foam tips.


Yeah that pair went back to Amazon already!  lol


----------



## dweaver

So I uninstalled and reinstalled the Soundcore app, I am not seeing any custom EQ. Am I doing something wrong or missing something?


----------



## d3myz (Jan 10, 2020)

SoundChoice said:


> How does T1X compare to Nuarl N6?


 I did a comparison a couple pages back. They both sound great. the T1x overall doesn't sound quite as refined and smooth as the N6's. But it has better bass and I feel like it's more detailed than the N6 and less than the N6 pro, but like I said, It's not as fun to listen to at loud volumes. 




Sam L said:


> woah, hold on... I thought the freq resp for the sonys reach down to 20hz? or at least by design, totally different question as to whether they actually deliver on the low end.


I'm referring to The Manual EQ. Sony's goes down to 400hz.


----------



## hifi80sman

dweaver said:


> So I uninstalled and reinstalled the Soundcore app, I am not seeing any custom EQ. Am I doing something wrong or missing something?


Are you on Android? It looks like the updated App is only available for iOS right now.


----------



## dweaver

hifi80sman said:


> Are you on Android? It looks like the updated App is only available for iOS right now.



I am on android. That explains it then. Thanks.

Come on Soundcore show us android users some love!


----------



## d3myz

So... for everyone who's been able to Manually EQ the L2pro, What are your thoughts? Care to share some of your EQ settings? Also, please denote which version of the L2pro you have.

I currently have 2 of the Ver. 3's  (that's what i've been using w/EQ) and a Version 2 which I haven't tried yet.


----------



## ngd3

Sam L said:


> ah, f#$k... misplaced my Airpod Pros. damn. Reminds me why I got into chi-fi in the first place -- I kept losing my earphones.  But it's been 3 or 4 years since I last lost a pair. argh.
> 
> I'm going to stop by BestBuy and pick up a pair of wf-1000xm3's since I've been sitting on the fence on those for months. Anything else I should consider? MW07+? ANC is a requirement.



Save yourself the money and get Galaxy Buds or Jabras? I have the XM3s and find the sound very mediocre. I'd much rather listen to the Liberty 2 Pros


----------



## d3myz

ngd3 said:


> Save yourself the money and get Galaxy Buds or Jabras? I have the XM3s and find the sound very mediocre. I'd much rather listen to the Liberty 2 Pros


I haven't heard the Galaxy Buds or the Jabras, but medicore is not a word I would use to describe the XM3's. With the Sybmio tips, mine sound really nice. They are def. on par with the L2pro if not better in some areas.


----------



## ngd3

That's fair. Maybe not mediocre, just doesn't stand out so I'll go with good across the board. Was just expecting SQ to be a little better, and I've tried all the usual tip options 

Bonus for the Sony - this week I did the ear analysis and optimized Tidal for 360 sound through the app and I think they sound a little better now


----------



## jant71

Saw this vid a little bit ago...


----------



## wksoh (Jan 11, 2020)

ngd3 said:


> Save yourself the money and get Galaxy Buds or Jabras? I have the XM3s and find the sound very mediocre. I'd much rather listen to the Liberty 2 Pros


Actually if want to save more money, get the mpow m5. Some colleagues gathered for ice cream headphones challenge session last night: Amongst them were the $1000 shure 846 4 driver wired, Nakamichi TW211 tws, Xiaomi pistons. Bose 700, Sony xba A1 armature, Monster DNA, Sony xbr bt30, Sennheiser cx7. All Different ears,..but had same surprise conclusion: The $1000 shure 846 and mpow m5 came out tops. Colleagues are amazed  the mpow is under $50. They (not just me) felt the mpow sound signature is almost comparable to the $1000 Shure 846. The owner of the shure 846 says he's going to sell away his earphone to finance a Sony full frame camera.


----------



## turbobb (Jan 10, 2020)

Has anyone tried the Fada M2?
https://www.amazon.com/Wireless-Headphones-Bluetooth-Cancellation-Sweatproof/dp/B07ZNT78QJ/

EDIT: The piqued my interest as apparently the company has a long history (though I don't know if they're still one and the same, their slogan is though...): http://classicradiogallery.com/fada_history.html


----------



## hifi80sman

turbobb said:


> Has anyone tried the Fada M2?
> https://www.amazon.com/Wireless-Headphones-Bluetooth-Cancellation-Sweatproof/dp/B07ZNT78QJ/
> 
> EDIT: The piqued my interest as apparently the company has a long history (though I don't know if they're still one and the same, their slogan is though...): http://classicradiogallery.com/fada_history.html


I'm sure it's just someone that has rights to use the name, just like you'll see headphones from Fisher, etc.


----------



## voicemaster

gibletzor said:


> Yeah that pair went back to Amazon already!  lol


Thats what I like from Amazon. Fast shipping and no hassle on return.


----------



## clerkpalmer

I’m not much into tip rolling but is there a consensus on which tips are best? Spin fits? Stock?  Oh yeah - for n6 pro.


----------



## dasadab

Hi Folks, 
I have been following this thread and really appreciate the many dedicated contributors.  I am in the hunt for a really small set for wireless IEMs for my spouse.  She is a small person and even the LP2 she felt were a little to big.  Just trying to find something  that has good sound, connectivity, and iphone integration.  No budget, but under $100 would be best and Amazon friendly.


----------



## DynamicEars

Anyone tried this new Haylou GT1 plus? not to be confused with GT1 only / Pro / GT2 because this is the newest from haylou with new 7.2 bio cellulose driver  (the other haylou using standard 6mm DD) and Qualcomm Qcc2020 with APTX and cost only $25~ish. Both unit connected to phone directly like QCY T5, not using old master-slave tech. IPX5 rated.

I'm not an expert in TWS world, but I have QCY T5  and T1c/QS2.
They sounded very balance, with touch of sub bass and gentle mid bass, a bit forward midrange, but no emphasize on high mids especially 3khz like T5. T5 sounded a bit thin compared to these, and this set have more details and sounded more mature / smoother. And i was surprised to hear the soundstage and imaging from $25 set, wireless.
They are very small too, you can hide the entire case in your palm without seen at all. 
Major drawback that i found is i couldnt use any aftermarket eartips (would prefer wide bore eartips actually).

@Bartig have you try this set? since youre the one among others that also have so many experience with TWS and like the T5 for budget segment. I just read your FiiL T1X review and very interested in them, as recommended by @voicemaster too last time.
Just wanted to hear your impressions about this set. Thanks!


----------



## d3myz

clerkpalmer said:


> I’m not much into tip rolling but is there a consensus on which tips are best? Spin fits? Stock?  Oh yeah - for n6 pro.


I like the stock tips and the tips that came with my Blon B3. Every other tip, even the Auvio's seem's to slightly change the midrange.


----------



## d3myz (Jan 11, 2020)

In Honor of the late and great Neil Peart, who was one of my first inspirations as a drummer, i've been listening to Rush today on the N6/Pro and the T1X. The NUARLs are exquisite. The T1X just seems too shrill even on bass EQ.
I've burnt both the NUARLs in for roughly 10-16 hours using pink/brown noise, so freq. sweeps and a playlist of all sorts of different music. Everything on Moving Pictures by Rush sounds Fantastic. The N6 Pro is still super detailed but it's a bit too cold w/o the extra bass the N6 has.
The N6 really brings it. I think it was @Spamateur, @tma6  or @Luchyres  who mentioned that you still get 90% of the detail in the N6. I'd say it's more like 85%, but boy is it excellent. I've also been playing with EQ's on the L2pro today and while I got it sounding really good, The Nuarl's are just a whole different kind of Samurai magic. I"m keeping the N6. If you haven't tried them or think they are too expensive @ $130 i'd urge you to take the leap. You won't be disappointed. I recant what I said earlier about them not handling poorly mastered music well. I think burning them in really helped.

For example, Working Man of RUSH (1974) is a pretty poorly recorded track and on my L2pro's I had it sound pretty dang good. On the N6 everything sounds better.

Edit: I also did some minor EQing in spotify, and the N6 responded really well.


----------



## bronco1015

dasadab said:


> Hi Folks,
> I have been following this thread and really appreciate the many dedicated contributors.  I am in the hunt for a really small set for wireless IEMs for my spouse.  She is a small person and even the LP2 she felt were a little to big.  Just trying to find something  that has good sound, connectivity, and iphone integration.  No budget, but under $100 would be best and Amazon friendly.


In order of lowest to highest in price and sq, though none of these are bad imo i mean, for the low cost i was a fan of all of them. These are all on amazon as well.
dudios Zues-air $27.99 w a $5 coupon $22.99
These are a rebrand of the much discussed QCY T1C if you search this thread for that model you'll find a lot of posts about them.
They're IP6 for water, charge via micro USB and the case has no lid, but the buds stay in the case well thanks to magnets.
Tronsmart spunky beat $34.99 with a $5 coupon $29.99
These have super sensative touch controls, but sound really awesome. I bought some for my Friend's son and he uses them every day. He's 12 and they fit in his ears really well. i only listened to them for a few mins but they're great for the price and just a solid all arounder.
Bomaker SiFi $49.99 but $39.99 with a $10 off coupon.
These have a tiny case, are IPX7, and have these lowpro tips that help them fit really nicely in the ear. They compete well with anything up to $149.99 imo.
all 3 of these are small, sound great, and will likely last quite a while.
when i pulled up the Zues-air to see how much it was today, i saw that Dudios has a new model out called the Tik.
it's $34.99 but has a $4 coupon. i don't know anything about them but they seem very small and can be used indipendently as well, just wanted to give you as many options as i knew of or in this case discovered. hope this helps.


----------



## dweaver

Wow just saw the news about Neil Peart, sad news. Gonna have a long listen to Rush tonight. Really appreciate their music. He was the heart of the band in many ways.


----------



## bronco1015 (Jan 11, 2020)

d3myz said:


> In Honor of the late and great Neil Peart, who was one of my first inspirations as a drummer, i've been listening to Rush today on the N6/Pro and the T1X. The NUARLs are exquisite. The T1X just seems too shrill even on bass EQ.
> I've burnt both the NUARLs in for roughly 10-16 hours using pink/brown noise, so freq. sweeps and a playlist of all sorts of different music. Everything on Moving Pictures by Rush sounds Fantastic. The N6 Pro is still super detailed but it's a bit too cold w/o the extra bass the N6 has.
> The N6 really brings it. I think it was @Spamateur, @tma6  or @Luchyres  who mentioned that you still get 90% of the detail in the N6. I'd say it's more like 85%, but boy is it excellent. I've also been playing with EQ's on the L2pro today and while I got it sounding really good, The Nuarl's are just a whole different kind of Samurai magic. I"m keeping the N6. If you haven't tried them or think they are too expensive @ $130 i'd urge you to take the leap. You won't be disappointed. I recant what I said earlier about them not handling poorly mastered music well. I think burning them in really helped.
> 
> For example, Working Man of RUSH (1974) is a pretty poorly recorded track and on my L2pro's I had it sound pretty dang good. On the N6 everything sounds better.


Maybe it's the new toy phase but i've been burning in the n6pro as well and they honestly are a treat to listen to.
heres a hypathetical question for you, you have to get rid of either the n6 or l2p. which one do you keep? Edit, after posting this i realize what you said about the nuarls being on a different level, but this is what's going through my head. i could return the l2p and get the n6 instead. a few days ago, i hadn't even considered returning the l2p, but after seeing several impressions about the n6 i'm wondering if that's the better one to get instead of keeping the l2p even though i really like the l2p. Or i could take the opportunity of getting one less twe in my collection and just have the N6pro, MTW, anbes 359, fiil T1x and Bomaker SiFi.


----------



## d3myz

dweaver said:


> Wow just saw the news about Neil Peart, sad news. Gonna have a long listen to Rush tonight. Really appreciate their music. He was the heart of the band in many ways.


Yea, man. Sad day. When I was young I remember hearing Tom Sawyer on the radio and was just blown away by his drumming in that song. I signed up for BMG Music and got the Rush Chronicles Multi-Disc CD and played it everyday in my discman for months. We'll miss you Neil. Thank you!


----------



## d3myz

bronco1015 said:


> Maybe it's the new toy phase but i've been burning in the n6pro as well and they honestly are a treat to listen to.
> heres a hypothetical question for you, you have to get rid of either the n6 or l2p. which one do you keep?



I get rid of the N6 Pro. I'm almost 95% sure I can EQ the N6 to sound Very close to the same as the N6 pro. DM me, I have 3 L2pros. If you send it back I'll hook you up with the Utah Audiophile discount.


----------



## wksoh (Jan 11, 2020)

d3myz said:


> In Honor of the late and great Neil Peart, who was one of my first inspirations as a drummer, i've been listening to Rush today on the N6/Pro and the T1X. The NUARLs are exquisite. The T1X just seems too shrill even on bass EQ.
> I've burnt both the NUARLs in for roughly 10-16 hours using pink/brown noise, so freq. sweeps and a playlist of all sorts of different music. Everything on Moving Pictures by Rush sounds Fantastic. The N6 Pro is still super detailed but it's a bit too cold w/o the extra bass the N6 has.
> The N6 really brings it. I think it was @Spamateur, @tma6  or @Luchyres  who mentioned that you still get 90% of the detail in the N6. I'd say it's more like 85%, but boy is it excellent. I've also been playing with EQ's on the L2pro today and while I got it sounding really good, The Nuarl's are just a whole different kind of Samurai magic. I"m keeping the N6. If you haven't tried them or think they are too expensive @ $130 i'd urge you to take the leap. You won't be disappointed. I recant what I said earlier about them not handling poorly mastered music well. I think burning them in really helped.
> 
> ...


I just canceled my T1X after your report on Shrill... My greatest concern..


----------



## chinmie

the seller from AE just contacted me and said they're having trouble with the Airsun X7 order due from shortage of stock, and instead offer me to send the newer version X8 instead. let's see how it would turn out. it seems it uses the same chip and (i presumed) drivers, but promises better ANC


----------



## D3soLaT3

Looks like LG is dipping their toes into the TWS market with the Tone Free. Odd, I know, but I feel like it is worth posting because the Tone Free are done in collaboration with Meridian. Two hundred bucks and no ANC will surely turn people off but these could be great especially when (not if *when*) they drop in price. The wired earbuds that came included with my LG G8 are actually tuned very nicely and I know LG has found some success with thier around the neck style bluetooth earbuds. 








I have found several terrific sounding TWS from lesser known brands, and I am always on the lookout for great sleeper sets.


----------



## BakedVodka

Is there anyone with the mifo o5/tfz x1 and the mtw100? I'm wondering whether it would be possible to use the charging box of shanlings to charge the former since they seem to have a similar form factor.


----------



## Peddler

Gutted to hear about Neil Peart. Rush have always been one of my favourite bands and Neil's technical skills were beyond measure. Moving Pictures, Permanent Waves and 2112 are absolute classics.

Just to remain on-topic, I'm absolutely loving the Lypertek Tevi's - they have a very similar sound signature to my beloved Ultimate Ears Triple Fi 10's - that's quite an achievement for a set of truly wireless headphones.  Detailed review coming soon.


----------



## Bartig

voicemaster said:


> You could add "don't forget to turn on your location setting on your phone to those who can't connect their t1x to their phone" and it works wonderfully. I think fiil is the only company that usee proximity sensor (location) to detect their earbuds.





cwill said:


> THIS!


Great feedback, I will add it now.


----------



## Bartig

ngd3 said:


> Save yourself the money and get Galaxy Buds or Jabras? I have the XM3s and find the sound very mediocre. I'd much rather listen to the Liberty 2 Pros


Really? I see a whole lot of good words about the Liberty 2 Pro, and while I like the wide soundstage of it, I also find the sound very artificial. Way overboosted bass - up until the point that it can really get annoying, even with the reduced bass EQ - and I hear a certain hiss over upper-mids, like female vocals. I absolutely love the build quality and app, but the sound doesn't do the trick for me.


----------



## Bartig

Peddler said:


> Gutted to hear about Neil Peart. Rush have always been one of my favourite bands and Neil's technical skills were beyond measure. Moving Pictures, Permanent Waves and 2112 are absolute classics.
> 
> Just to remain on-topic, I'm absolutely loving the Lypertek Tevi's - they have a very similar sound signature to my beloved Ultimate Ears Triple Fi 10's - that's quite an achievement for a set of truly wireless headphones.  Detailed review coming soon.


Before or after the update of the earpieces? Update them and the sound signature changes a lot. From bright and clear to a bit dark-ish, with a lower-mid and bass jump, but way less forward vocals.


----------



## paddyberger

Interested to see any custom EQ for LP2 people are liking.


----------



## bronco1015

D3soLaT3 said:


> Looks like LG is dipping their toes into the TWS market with the Tone Free. Odd, I know, but I feel like it is worth posting because the Tone Free are done in collaboration with Meridian. Two hundred bucks and no ANC will surely turn people off but these could be great especially when (not if *when*) they drop in price. The wired earbuds that came included with my LG G8 are actually tuned very nicely and I know LG has found some success with thier around the neck style bluetooth earbuds.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I wondered if these would make their way to the states, they were announced like 3ish months ago i think? pretty sure someone else posted about them here around the time they were announced. i wonder if that UV cleaning idea is 100% BS or not? i'm always rooting for LG, hope these sound awesome.


----------



## Giri2809

Bartig said:


> Well, I added a comparison between the Fiil T1X and L2P in my review...


Just bought L2P 2 days ago and take 3/4 week for shipping then your review show up... 
I like a good bass & also  treable (V-shape) but you said L2P's bass is muffled.... could you please explain more ?


----------



## DigDub

I like the eq created by HearID on the L2P.


----------



## D3soLaT3

bronco1015 said:


> I wondered if these would make their way to the states, they were announced like 3ish months ago i think? pretty sure someone else posted about them here around the time they were announced. i wonder if that UV cleaning idea is 100% BS or not? i'm always rooting for LG, hope these sound awesome.


They are available for purchase on the LG website right now and are expected to be available from third party sellers (Amazon) soon.


----------



## ngd3

Bartig said:


> Really? I see a whole lot of good words about the Liberty 2 Pro, and while I like the wide soundstage of it, I also find the sound very artificial. Way overboosted bass - up until the point that it can really get annoying, even with the reduced bass EQ - and I hear a certain hiss over upper-mids, like female vocals. I absolutely love the build quality and app, but the sound doesn't do the trick for me.



I don't disagree with any of that. I personally prefer a big subbass boost and don't mind the very obvious treble peaks on some of the EQ settings. Probably also fair to say the L2P is a better option if you listen to more electronic music 

Of course after I posted that I listened to the XM3s the rest of the afternoon and they sounded pretty good. Mattson 2 - great band, check them out. Will need to A/B more but I'm pretty sure the Tidal 360 integration with the app is very underrated. I've tried 360 audio tracks on my DAP and they generally don't sound good, on the XM3s though it's more subtle and actually adds to the tracks


----------



## Sam L

Sam L said:


> ah, f#$k... misplaced my Airpod Pros. damn. Reminds me why I got into chi-fi in the first place -- I kept losing my earphones.  But it's been 3 or 4 years since I last lost a pair. argh.
> 
> I'm going to stop by BestBuy and pick up a pair of wf-1000xm3's since I've been sitting on the fence on those for months. Anything else I should consider? MW07+? ANC is a requirement.



Ended up not having time to pick up something during the day, so stopped by BestBuy after work and ended up with a pair of Amazon Echo Buds. At quick listen:
- pretty decent TWE's
- not worth $129
- most "un-dual-BA" sounding earphones I've heard. not a bad thing but not a good thing either.
- the ANR is weak sauce but the seal achieved for my ears is excellent, so overall good ambient sound abatement. the seal reminds me of my haylou gt1's, very isolating.
- the app eq is very responsive, just one tick on any of the parameters makes a noticeable impact on the SQ.

Not likely to keep them, but if they were $49, I'd consider them an excellent buy. At $79, a decent purchase. At $129, don't know....


----------



## Jfever311

gibletzor said:


> Is the Fiil app gone from the Google Play Store for anyone else?   I had it downloaded before I sent the last pair back for the driver flex, now I can't download it again....



I'm surprised nobody else has noticed this, or at least commented as such. I wonder what happened.


----------



## Jfever311

Oh hey fellas, I'm just here for the food. Don't mind me...... 

LOL!


----------



## dasadab

bronco1015 said:


> In order of lowest to highest in price and sq, though none of these are bad imo i mean, for the low cost i was a fan of all of them. These are all on amazon as well.
> dudios Zues-air $27.99 w a $5 coupon $22.99
> These are a rebrand of the much discussed QCY T1C if you search this thread for that model you'll find a lot of posts about them.
> They're IP6 for water, charge via micro USB and the case has no lid, but the buds stay in the case well thanks to magnets.
> ...



Thank you for the time and energy you put into this.  I really appreciate it.


----------



## thimantha

DynamicEars said:


> Anyone tried this new Haylou GT1 plus? not to be confused with GT1 only / Pro / GT2 because this is the newest from haylou with new 7.2 bio cellulose driver  (the other haylou using standard 6mm DD) and Qualcomm Qcc2020 with APTX and cost only $25~ish. Both unit connected to phone directly like QCY T5, not using old master-slave tech. IPX5 rated.
> 
> I'm not an expert in TWS world, but I have QCY T5  and T1c/QS2.
> They sounded very balance, with touch of sub bass and gentle mid bass, a bit forward midrange, but no emphasize on high mids especially 3khz like T5. T5 sounded a bit thin compared to these, and this set have more details and sounded more mature / smoother. And i was surprised to hear the soundstage and imaging from $25 set, wireless.
> ...



I'm torn between the GT1 Plus and the T5. What do you say the best overall earphone out of the two is if you disregard the price. 

Also, how's the call quality on the GT1 Plus?


----------



## Sam L (Jan 11, 2020)

thimantha said:


> I'm torn between the GT1 Plus and the T5. What do you say the best overall earphone out of the two is if you disregard the price.
> 
> Also, how's the call quality on the GT1 Plus?



how much are the t5 going for nowadays? Personally, I'd go for the fiil t1x. But I haven't given either of the models you mentioned a listen. I have owned multiple models from both brands and still carry the gt1 with me from time to time because of the convenient size.


----------



## jant71

d3myz said:


> In Honor of the late and great Neil Peart, who was one of my first inspirations as a drummer, i've been listening to Rush today on the N6/Pro and the T1X. The NUARLs are exquisite. The T1X just seems too shrill even on bass EQ.
> I've burnt both the NUARLs in for roughly 10-16 hours using pink/brown noise, so freq. sweeps and a playlist of all sorts of different music. Everything on Moving Pictures by Rush sounds Fantastic. The N6 Pro is still super detailed but it's a bit too cold w/o the extra bass the N6 has.
> The N6 really brings it. I think it was @Spamateur, @tma6  or @Luchyres  who mentioned that you still get 90% of the detail in the N6. I'd say it's more like 85%, but boy is it excellent. I've also been playing with EQ's on the L2pro today and while I got it sounding really good, The Nuarl's are just a whole different kind of Samurai magic. I"m keeping the N6. If you haven't tried them or think they are too expensive @ $130 i'd urge you to take the leap. You won't be disappointed. I recant what I said earlier about them not handling poorly mastered music well. I think burning them in really helped.
> 
> ...



Same tips right, comparing the Nuarl with each other. Still thinking they probably both need more hours. Seem close though to make preference be the deciding factor. What about the stage size??

I got to checkout with the Edifier, which seems in stock but no volume control according to the manual...





Then also, in the Helm video it is obvious to see the rotary control thing was an issue so they scrapped it but don't think I want touch. So, my list is seemingly getting shorter and shorter.


----------



## Peddler

Bartig said:


> Before or after the update of the earpieces? Update them and the sound signature changes a lot. From bright and clear to a bit dark-ish, with a lower-mid and bass jump, but way less forward vocals.




Yes I also noticed that but I did find the original sound signature for me to be a little bright. I loved the details but didn't like the lack of deep bass. 

The update offers me the chance to change the sound with eq but the default flat sounds pretty much works for me. 

I must admit I really liked the sound character of the Sony WF1000XM3's but felt that they didn't go quite loud enough for me (and that's something that really has to be right up front - can't be easily changed with software). The firmware and software update for the Tevi brings the character closer to the Sony sound and that's perfectly fine by me. 

I do wonder if Lypertek will change the sound character back to default when the software comes out of beta.


----------



## tma6

Bartig said:


> Really? I see a whole lot of good words about the Liberty 2 Pro, and while I like the wide soundstage of it, I also find the sound very artificial. Way overboosted bass - up until the point that it can really get annoying, even with the reduced bass EQ - and I hear a certain hiss over upper-mids, like female vocals. I absolutely love the build quality and app, but the sound doesn't do the trick for me.



I know it’s a bit out of the price range with respect to the stuff you usually review, but it would be awesome if you got them to hear your thoughts on the NUARL N6 Pro. Right now it’s my king of detail retrieval, timbre, and imaging in the TWS space


----------



## webvan

Bartig said:


> Well, I added a comparison between the Fiil T1X and L2P in my review...



So it seems you're saying the T1X are better than the L2P ? I'm intrigued especially since they have wings and appear to isolate well, making them good for bike use instance. I currently use the Bomaker and M5 for that but without wings the seal breaks too easily so I pull out the Havit G1 but the SQ is not exactly great. It's too bad there's no way to get them at a good price and quickly in Europe


----------



## clerkpalmer

So far the N6 Pro is quite nice.  While I don't think they are necessarily game changing, I do think they are moving the needle in the right direction for those who value SQ above all else.  They are extremely balanced and neutral to my ears.  If I didn't know these were single DD IEMS, I would think they could pass for a hybrid.  The highs are extremely crisp and detailed.  Detail and separation are the stars of the show to a level I don't think I've heard on a TWS.  There is a sense of openness and air that is also typically missing from TWS.  Not sure if that's the HDSS or what that is contributing to that.  The bass or lack thereof is fine.  These aren't bass light they just aren't bass heavy.  I listen to mostly alternative and rock.  Since I'm stuck with an iphone, I can't bump the bass and I would like to give them a try with a little boost but I'm pretty satisfied with it as is.  There is zero bleed and they can go low where the track calls for it.  If you put a gun to my head, I think I would say they even edge out the MW07 for SQ.  What they lack in tonality, they gain in detail and soundstage.  

As an aside, I was traveling this week and used my APP exclusively and man are they awesome.  I used to carry multiple pairs on travel but I think APP is so good, so convenient and so small that I probably would't bother anymore.  The ANC was more than sufficient on the plane and allowed me to keep volume at 50%.  

Now, I would really like to see if Bose can beat the APP with better SQ and ANC.  Or maybe Nuarl will add ANC to the N6.  I'm starting to think ANC is going to be a requirement for me going forward.  Once you have it, it's hard to give it up.


----------



## Firevortex

clerkpalmer said:


> So far the N6 Pro is quite nice.  While I don't think they are necessarily game changing, I do think they are moving the needle in the right direction for those who value SQ above all else.  They are extremely balanced and neutral to my ears.  If I didn't know these were single DD IEMS, I would think they could pass for a hybrid.  The highs are extremely crisp and detailed.  Detail and separation are the stars of the show to a level I don't think I've heard on a TWS.  There is a sense of openness and air that is also typically missing from TWS.  Not sure if that's the HDSS or what that is contributing to that.  The bass or lack thereof is fine.  These aren't bass light they just aren't bass heavy.  I listen to mostly alternative and rock.  Since I'm stuck with an iphone, I can't bump the bass and I would like to give them a try with a little boost but I'm pretty satisfied with it as is.  There is zero bleed and they can go low where the track calls for it.  If you put a gun to my head, I think I would say they even edge out the MW07 for SQ.  What they lack in tonality, they gain in detail and soundstage.





would you dump your TRN BT20s combo for the N6 Pros? i think my preference in sound is closer to yours so i might give them a try. The N6 looks rather big on the ear, seems to be on pair with the sony which isnt really comfortable. how would you rate their comfort level?


----------



## PTDennis

For those wanting to buy the T1X in Europe, there is a seller in Italy. Not the best price, though. https://geekbuying.app.link/TPgANHKg42
I already bought one and they came with the voice prompts in English. 3 days delivery only.


----------



## clerkpalmer (Jan 11, 2020)

Firevortex said:


> would you dump your TRN BT20s combo for the N6 Pros? i think my preference in sound is closer to yours so i might give them a try. The N6 looks rather big on the ear, seems to be on pair with the sony which isnt really comfortable. how would you rate their comfort level?



I don't know about "dumping" but the N6 has the advantage of sounding at least as good as my BT20s combos and also has sweatproofing.  The are not the most attractive TWS I've seen.  In fact, I pretty much hate the way the look.  I really wish they had not put gold trim on them.  They don't look that bad on the ears but not as slim as the BT20.  Comfort seems fine.  Fit is just okay.  The wings are useless but they seem pretty stable.  I couldn't run with them but I think light activity; walking; cardio etc. they should be okay. 

I probably will be more inclined to grab these over the BT20 simply because they require less fuss and I can use them at the gym.  If you are in the US and can buy on Amazon, I think they are worth giving them a try.  At $162 I don't think you would be disappointed.


----------



## bandario

PTDennis said:


> For those wanting to buy the T1X in Europe, there is a seller in Italy. Not the best price, though. https://geekbuying.app.link/TPgANHKg42
> I already bought one and they came with the voice prompts in English. 3 days delivery only.




Are they worth it @ $100AUD??? These seem to be recommended as a good budget set, but if I'm paying that much I'm pretty close to the price of a pair of galaxy buds or something else. Quite confused at this point.


----------



## PTDennis

bandario said:


> Are they worth it @ $100AUD??? These seem to be recommended as a good budget set, but if I'm paying that much I'm pretty close to the price of a pair of galaxy buds or something else. Quite confused at this point.


In my opinion yes, they are. Amazing sound and comfort. Good app for iPhone and Android and phone calls work well. Touch controls and good build quality. But you could also read this review from @Bartig https://www.scarbir.com/tws/fiil-t1x-review


----------



## turbobb

D3soLaT3 said:


> Looks like LG is dipping their toes into the TWS market with the Tone Free. Odd, I know, but I feel like it is worth posting because the Tone Free are done in collaboration with Meridian. Two hundred bucks and no ANC will surely turn people off but these could be great especially when (not if *when*) they drop in price. The wired earbuds that came included with my LG G8 are actually tuned very nicely and I know LG has found some success with thier around the neck style bluetooth earbuds.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Even if they have outstanding SQ, it's going to be a tough sell at the asking price especially with the plethora of excellent Chi-Fi units, speaking of which, they remind me a bit of these:
https://www.amazon.com/Bluephonic-SweatProof-Headphones-Bluetooth-Earphones/dp/B07W3HF448

As with a few of the Chi-Fi brands, they seem to be a generic pair given I see the exact same designs from another mfr called Headsound as well:
https://www.amazon.com/HeadSound-Headphones-SweatProof-Bluetooth-Earphones/dp/B07VJ9PXJW/


----------



## jant71 (Jan 11, 2020)

clerkpalmer said:


> I don't know about "dumping" but the N6 has the advantage of sounding at least as good as my BT20s combos and also has sweatproofing.  The are not the most attractive TWS I've seen.  In fact, I pretty much hate the way the look.  I really wish they had not put gold trim on them.  They don't look that bad on the ears but not as slim as the BT20.  Comfort seems fine.  Fit is just okay.  The wings are useless but they seem pretty stable.  I couldn't run with them but I think light activity; walking; cardio etc. they should be okay.
> 
> I probably will be more inclined to grab these over the BT20 simply because they require less fuss and I can use them at the gym.  If you are in the US and can buy on Amazon, I think they are worth giving them a try.  At $162 I don't think you would be disappointed.



Good points! Why don't they have different size wings? Just watched a video with a dude skateboarding and saying the Edifier won't budge. "Pretty Stable" and "light activity" are not that confidence inspiring. Love to chase after a racquetball and basketball and would really suck to have a Nuarl fly out and scrape against the  blacktop. No ANC or ambient either may just be three strikes on the Nuarl for me.


----------



## clerkpalmer

jant71 said:


> Good points! Why don't they have different size wings? Just watched a video with a dude skateboarding and saying the Edifier won't budge. "Pretty Stable" and "light activity" are not that confidence inspiring. Love to chase after a racquetball and basketball and would really suck to have a Nuarl fly out and scrape against the  blacktop. No ANC or ambient either may just be three strikes on the Nuarl for me.


Fit is pretty subjective so I wouldn’t base your decision on that. With respect to ANC and transparency my only comment is that at their current price, I can give them a pass but I hope they have a more full featured set in the works.


----------



## voicemaster

bandario said:


> Are they worth it @ $100AUD??? These seem to be recommended as a good budget set, but if I'm paying that much I'm pretty close to the price of a pair of galaxy buds or something else. Quite confused at this point.



Sound quality, bluetooth connection, battery life are definitely better than the galaxy buds.


----------



## turbobb

These are launching soon w/the QCC5121 (which I believe the upcoming Klipsch T10 will also have due to the head gesture control feature):
https://www.mobvoi.com/us/pages/ticpods2
(note only the Pro has the 5121 which supports aptX Adaptive and TWS+, but whether it'll be implemented or not is another story...)
Not a fan of the form factor, else I'd jump on the pre-order... Any takers?


----------



## jant71

clerkpalmer said:


> Fit is pretty subjective so I wouldn’t base your decision on that. With respect to ANC and transparency my only comment is that at their current price, I can give them a pass but I hope they have a more full featured set in the works.



Probably will wait for a more featured LC3 capable set in the future. For now still have the Motorola coming perhaps next week as they are due out on the 14th. Video, btw... https://www.youtube.com/embed/bdka3VWxnXM

Those will have VC and aux-in and I might go for the new AT Sport90BT since it has ambient and 4GB storage and more sports oriented to take out and hang on the neck and auto pausing when the magnets engage. I will be covered with those two and the Verve buds 200 to till next CES and what that will bring.


----------



## 13gsc13

Can someone comment on the sound quality difference between N6 Pro and Senn MTW?
Thanks


----------



## clerkpalmer

13gsc13 said:


> Can someone comment on the sound quality difference between N6 Pro and Senn MTW?
> Thanks


I will try based on memory. MTW is very warm with a lot of bass quantity and quality. I had to eq the bass down on them otherwise I felt it was too much.  That said, I enjoyed the tonality once the bass was taken care of. Very enjoyable to listen to. Senn has a “house” sound that many people like. 

The N6 is colder and more clinical. Everything is very clean, tight and uncolored. There is more air to them and the soundstage is wider. 

Two very different approaches.


----------



## falang

My Android Soundcore app updated with the custom EQ option for L2Ps yesterday.


----------



## DynamicEars

thimantha said:


> I'm torn between the GT1 Plus and the T5. What do you say the best overall earphone out of the two is if you disregard the price.
> 
> Also, how's the call quality on the GT1 Plus?



Overall i will choose GT1 plus than T5 because mids are thicker on GT1 plus and sub bass texture is better and without T5's high mid 3khz peak. Soundstage and imaging on par if not a little bit better in GT1 plus.

About sound call quality, as receptor i heard clear voices, but i cant tell more about thenkic quality since i never give deep test about it but when i asked my wife, she said clear, what's the matter? (And i didn't explain that i called with another new earphone )


----------



## voicemaster

DynamicEars said:


> Overall i will choose GT1 plus than T5 because mids are thicker on GT1 plus and sub bass texture is better and without T5's high mid 3khz peak. Soundstage and imaging on par if not a little bit better in GT1 plus.
> 
> About sound call quality, as receptor i heard clear voices, but i cant tell more about thenkic quality since i never give deep test about it but when i asked my wife, she said clear, what's the matter? (And i didn't explain that i called with another new earphone )


Lol i also always call my wife to check new TWS for call quality and she always ask why? and I just say oh its its my new IEM.


----------



## wksoh

DynamicEars said:


> Overall i will choose GT1 plus than T5 because mids are thicker on GT1 plus and sub bass texture is better and without T5's high mid 3khz peak. Soundstage and imaging on par if not a little bit better in GT1 plus.
> 
> About sound call quality, as receptor i heard clear voices, but i cant tell more about thenkic quality since i never give deep test about it but when i asked my wife, she said clear, what's the matter? (And i didn't explain that i called with another new earphone )


Sounds like my kind of earphone..


----------



## wksoh

DynamicEars said:


> Anyone tried this new Haylou GT1 plus? not to be confused with GT1 only / Pro / GT2 because this is the newest from haylou with new 7.2 bio cellulose driver  (the other haylou using standard 6mm DD) and Qualcomm Qcc2020 with APTX and cost only $25~ish. Both unit connected to phone directly like QCY T5, not using old master-slave tech. IPX5 rated.
> 
> I'm not an expert in TWS world, but I have QCY T5  and T1c/QS2.
> They sounded very balance, with touch of sub bass and gentle mid bass, a bit forward midrange, but no emphasize on high mids especially 3khz like T5. T5 sounded a bit thin compared to these, and this set have more details and sounded more mature / smoother. And i was surprised to hear the soundstage and imaging from $25 set, wireless.
> ...


I think the original haylou was advertised as 7.2mm as well.


----------



## wksoh (Jan 11, 2020)

hedphonz said:


> Sennheiser momentum or Anker liberty pro 2 ?
> I'm wanting to go true wireless iem for exercise purposes only and happy to accept some loss of SQ.
> 
> I like good strong bass and don't like sibilant trebles
> ...


Don't like sibilance like me. Try the Mpow M5. I compared it with the $1000 Shure 846 I just noticed in your signature. Their sonic signature quite the same path. Smooth strong bass, less sibilance. Strong thick mid.


----------



## DynamicEars

wksoh said:


> I think the original haylou was advertised as 7.2mm as well.



You are right sorry i mixed up, using the same 7.2mm DD but this new pkus using biological membrane or i dont know if it just marketing gimmick. Its the first haylou with qualcomm chip and have aptx then. My bad


----------



## wksoh

DynamicEars said:


> You are right sorry i mixed up, using the same 7.2mm DD but this new pkus using biological membrane or i dont know if it just marketing gimmick. Its the first haylou with qualcomm chip and have aptx then. My bad


If it has thick mids, it's on my radar


----------



## Quicky32

Still struggling with the T1X moving around in my left ear and a horrible whistling sound.


----------



## d3myz

Quicky32 said:


> I need some tips for my Fiil T1X.  There’s an airy sound when I put my finger up to the controls and I can’t get a good fit with any of the cheap tips I have.  Prefer to order from Amazon because of fast shipping...


 Not amazon, but for the T1x, I like the Radio Shack Auvio's



Bartig said:


> Really? I see a whole lot of good words about the Liberty 2 Pro, and while I like the wide soundstage of it, I also find the sound very artificial. Way overboosted bass - up until the point that it can really get annoying, even with the reduced bass EQ - and I hear a certain hiss over upper-mids, like female vocals. I absolutely love the build quality and app, but the sound doesn't do the trick for me.


 Try the new manual EQ, with the version 3. once I boosted the mids way up the bass was almost underwhelming, but they still sound great.



jant71 said:


> Same tips right, comparing the Nuarl with each other. Still thinking they probably both need more hours. Seem close though to make preference be the deciding factor. What about the stage size??
> 
> I got to checkout with the Edifier, which seems in stock but no volume control according to the manual...
> 
> ...



Yes, same tips. I'm not sure if this is what you are asking, but I feel like the sound stage of the N6 is nearly identical to the Pro if not identical.


----------



## DynamicEars

wksoh said:


> If it has thick mids, it's on my radar



They are not too thick and bodied, but they are not thin, but overall is smooth, no mid bass punch but more gentle midbass followed by decent sub bass but definitely not for basshead.
Their pros are clean and balance sounds, with wide soundstage and surprisingly decent imaging for this cheap price.
Cons are cant use any other eartips because the case is so small, and their volume is a bit lower than the qcy (i use max volume on my v40, wish i could up them 1-2 steps more)


----------



## bronco1015

dasadab said:


> Thank you for the time and energy you put into this.  I really appreciate it.


No problem at all. Do post about which ones you end up getting, and if you find another pair that fits this category well, definitely want to hear about them.


----------



## bronco1015 (Jan 12, 2020)

13gsc13 said:


> Can someone comment on the sound quality difference between N6 Pro and Senn MTW?
> Thanks


well i want to give the best feedback i can, so have to ask. Wheres your EQ with the MTW? Initially i'd say the N6 Pro are better for the money, i like the design of the MTW better than the N6Pro, the battery life is way better on the N6P, that one can also be used in mono mode with both iems and both have identical functionality which is a huge bonus imo, if you don't own either and are looking at one to buy then buy the N6P. If you own the MTW currently, then the N6P could be a great complementary pair. regarding SQ they're both very capable. I think Sennheiser does the MTW a disservice based on the default sound setting they ship them with. Edit, the MTWs definitely have a bigger soundstage than the N6Pro, but that's not a knock on the pro at all. instrument placement on them is quite good and they give instruments a very real sound. E.g. symbols really do sound like symbols.


----------



## chinmie

voicemaster said:


> Lol i also always call my wife to check new TWS for call quality and she always ask why? and I just say oh its its my new IEM.



It's a dangerous business for me to call my wife everytime to test call quality, got alot of explaining and eye rolling from her (can't really see it, but i definitely can picture the eye roll  )

I usually use this voice recorder app as it can use bluetooth input mic

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.kasitskyi.voicerecorder



DynamicEars said:


> They are not too thick and bodied, but they are not thin, but overall is smooth, no mid bass punch but more gentle midbass followed by decent sub bass but definitely not for basshead.
> Their pros are clean and balance sounds, with wide soundstage and surprisingly decent imaging for this cheap price.
> Cons are cant use any other eartips because the case is so small, and their volume is a bit lower than the qcy (i use max volume on my v40, wish i could up them 1-2 steps more)



have you tried to unpair, and do factory reset of the Haylou? i did that on both my QCY T1C and T5, both have significantly louder volume after that. for comparison it needs about 80% on the volume slider before reset, and about 30-40% after resetting to get the similar volume


----------



## bronco1015

DynamicEars said:


> They are not too thick and bodied, but they are not thin, but overall is smooth, no mid bass punch but more gentle midbass followed by decent sub bass but definitely not for basshead.
> Their pros are clean and balance sounds, with wide soundstage and surprisingly decent imaging for this cheap price.
> Cons are cant use any other eartips because the case is so small, and their volume is a bit lower than the qcy (i use max volume on my v40, wish i could up them 1-2 steps more)


have you disabled absolute volume on the V40? that may bring out that last bit of volume you want.


----------



## voicemaster

chinmie said:


> It's a dangerous business for me to call my wife everytime to test call quality, got alot of explaining and eye rolling from her (can't really see it, but i definitely can picture the eye roll  )
> 
> I usually use this voice recorder app as it can use bluetooth input mic
> 
> ...



I also use Whatsapp built in voice recording and just record it to my other phone. Well, I have to call my wife everyday anyway because we are 8000 miles apart.


----------



## wksoh

DynamicEars said:


> They are not too thick and bodied, but they are not thin, but overall is smooth, no mid bass punch but more gentle midbass followed by decent sub bass but definitely not for basshead.
> Their pros are clean and balance sounds, with wide soundstage and surprisingly decent imaging for this cheap price.
> Cons are cant use any other eartips because the case is so small, and their volume is a bit lower than the qcy (i use max volume on my v40, wish i could up them 1-2 steps more)


Oh I c. I'd be concerned with low volume. I like it with more power... Thnx


----------



## DynamicEars

chinmie said:


> It's a dangerous business for me to call my wife everytime to test call quality, got alot of explaining and eye rolling from her (can't really see it, but i definitely can picture the eye roll  )
> 
> I usually use this voice recorder app as it can use bluetooth input mic
> 
> ...



Wow will try that later.. Thanks for the tips, worth the try


----------



## thimantha

DynamicEars said:


> Overall i will choose GT1 plus than T5 because mids are thicker on GT1 plus and sub bass texture is better and without T5's high mid 3khz peak. Soundstage and imaging on par if not a little bit better in GT1 plus.
> 
> About sound call quality, as receptor i heard clear voices, but i cant tell more about thenkic quality since i never give deep test about it but when i asked my wife, she said clear, what's the matter? (And i didn't explain that i called with another new earphone )



Thanks for the input. Ordered the GT1 Plus. If the call quality is as good as the QCY QS2's that's enough for me since I don't take calls in busy environments a lot.  

Oh, and Haylou is now selling the charging cases of their lineup separately without the earbuds. QCY doesn't do that, and for someone like me who tends to lose the charging cases a lot, it's a godsend.


----------



## DynamicEars (Jan 12, 2020)

wksoh said:


> Oh I c. I'd be concerned with low volume. I like it with more power... Thnx



For max volume its decent for me but sometimes i would like to go higher a bit. But i normally listen in higher volume, maybe its ok with you. But in comparison qcy is louder a bit


----------



## DynamicEars

chinmie said:


> It's a dangerous business for me to call my wife everytime to test call quality, got alot of explaining and eye rolling from her (can't really see it, but i definitely can picture the eye roll  )
> 
> I usually use this voice recorder app as it can use bluetooth input mic
> 
> ...



Tried this just now but no dice, still same volume level. Thanks anyway, didnt hurt to try



bronco1015 said:


> have you disabled absolute volume on the V40? that may bring out that last bit of volume you want.



What is absolute volume? If you meant about normalize volume yes i always turn it off




thimantha said:


> Thanks for the input. Ordered the GT1 Plus. If the call quality is as good as the QCY QS2's that's enough for me since I don't take calls in busy environments a lot.
> 
> Oh, and Haylou is now selling the charging cases of their lineup separately without the earbuds. QCY doesn't do that, and for someone like me who tends to lose the charging cases a lot, it's a godsend.



Great let me hear your impressions when they are arrived.
Yeah i know but normally the buds will lost first before the case lol


----------



## thimantha

DynamicEars said:


> Great let me hear your impressions when they are arrived.
> Yeah i know but normally the buds will lost first before the case lol



I always have them in my ears on in the case. The cases on the other hand fall out of my pockets constantly, and sometimes I don't notice and leave them behind. Lost my QCY QS2 case last week in a similar fashion. xD


----------



## gibletzor

Tronsmart Spunky Beats on lightning deal right now.   $27.19 + 10% off


----------



## bronco1015

DynamicEars said:


> Tried this just now but no dice, still same volume level. Thanks anyway, didnt hurt to try
> 
> 
> 
> ...


No this is at the system level. go to settings, tap 7 times on about phone, enter your pin if prompted, then check the box to enable developper options. Then go into dev options and check the box for disable absolute volume.


----------



## bronco1015 (Jan 12, 2020)

gibletzor said:


> Tronsmart Spunky Beats on lightning deal right now.   $27.19 + 10% off


 Damn you. Lol. i just picked up a pair. Now gonna have 4 cheap twes and 2 nicer ones. Returned the L2p. Well, now i've got my impulse purchase done for the day haha.


----------



## maricius

Purchased a pair of Mpow M5 for a friend but of course I just had to give them a good listen before giving them off 

All impressions are with a MacBook Pro, AptX enabled, and an iPhone 6s (no AptX) both running Spotify Premium

The first thing I notice are how monstrous the bass one these are. I wouldn't say it's THE bassiest IEM I've listened to but I'd imagine most bassheads or even the casual pop listeners who notice bass firstly would be satisfied. The bass is a bit boomy but still well defined. I'd say the bass rarely gets muddy but it does give the lower midrange its full sound. Interesting enough, I don't find the lower midrange to be warm at all. I find it a bit dark and thick sounding. The upper midrange, although not emphasised, gets a bit thinner which I feel gives these IEMs its clarity. This thinner note carries on to the lower treble giving the M5 some sparkle. It's not the smoothest nor most refined upper midrange nor treble but it never gets harsh either. There is definitely roll-off past the lower treble.

Soundstage is wide but depth can be improved. Imaging and instrument separation is surprisingly good but I think that's due to the general wideness of the stage.

Compared to the Final Audio Design E3000 (for slightly more at $40) which are also considered warm and slightly bass heavy IEMs, the bass of the E3000 goes just as deep and keeps all the detail in the reverb but with notably less emphasis. The E3000 definitely has a slightly boosted bass. The E3000 also has a clearer lower midrange but features a midrange that is warmer than the M5's. In regards to the note thickness of the E3000, I find these very slightly thinner in the lower midrange but thicker than the M5 in the upper midrange. Basically the E3000 has a more consistent note thickness throughout the frequency range. The M5 actually has a brighter upper midrange which might give the feeling of additional clarity. The E3000 has smoother lower treble but I'd say roll-off in the highest frequencies are similar. 

Soundstage is wider on the M5 but the E3000 has better depth and slightly better imaging. I'd say instrument separation is a toss up.

The Mpow M5 will not replace the best in-ears in the price range nor did I expect them to. I believe the fact that they could be compared at all is an achievement in the developments of technology and the company of course. 

Overall, if the M5 came out, even wired, a few years back, they could easily be the beginner's IEM choice for an extremely fun, and relatively balanced (bass notwithstanding) sound. That the M5 are a pair TWS IEMs, where those same years back we only had the single-ear bluetooth call headsets, makes it an outstanding value today. My caveat being, of course, that I've yet to demo other TWS IEMs. It just so happens that wired in-ears in this price range have gotten a lot better as well.

These have definitely gotten me curious about picking up my own TWS IEM or maybe even my own Mpow M5 in the future.


----------



## RobinFood

I just had a question for all you guys doing some sweating with the X12.
I just started going back to the gym after a 2 year exercise-less life lead to some stress hives, and my X12s were upgraded to gym use.
Anyways, they come out kind of sweaty and I'd like to clean them. The idea of not cleaning them between visits is like the idea of not changing underwear between visits.

So, how do you guys clean your gym use true wireless earphones. Do you scrub them with a sponge with dish soap under running water? Do you just rinse them with water? Do you go with alcohol wipes?


----------



## gibletzor

bronco1015 said:


> Damn you. Lol. i just picked up a pair. Now gonna have 4 cheap twes and 2 nicer ones. Returned the L2p. Well, now i've got my impulse purchase done for the day haha.


I barely resisted picking up a pair myself!  Thought I'd let everyone know though since they get a lot of talk on here.


----------



## bronco1015

maricius said:


> Purchased a pair of Mpow M5 for a friend but of course I just had to give them a good listen before giving them off
> 
> All impressions are with a MacBook Pro, AptX enabled, and an iPhone 6s (no AptX) both running Spotify Premium
> 
> ...


Try out the Fiil t1x if you do get your own twe. imo that one, the Bomaker SiFi and the Tronsmart spunky beat are the top 3 to buy under $50


----------



## 2ChannelAnimal

Anyone else try the TWE from BEBEN? I got them on Amazon for $30 or so to have something cheap and wireless while at the office. These things really surprised me! 

Not the most incredibly open sound stage in the world (they're sub $40, not complaining) but I would definitely buy another pair. Thoughts?

https://www.amazon.com/Wireless-BEB...f=sr_1_2?keywords=beben&qid=1578831508&sr=8-2


----------



## howdy

falang said:


> My Android Soundcore app updated with the custom EQ option for L2Ps yesterday.


How did you get it to work? I just tried twice and still no eq. I uninstalled and forgot device each time and nothing changes.


----------



## DynamicEars (Jan 12, 2020)

bronco1015 said:


> No this is at the system level. go to settings, tap 7 times on about phone, enter your pin if prompted, then check the box to enable developper options. Then go into dev options and check the box for disable absolute volume.



OMG this is works!!! thanks a bunch mate!! now i got this louder volume like 2 steps up from usual max volume! very helpful!!

*edit : turn off that disable absolute volume again, i think volume is still the same, i was just listening in my quiet room, tried to on and off but i guess its still the same, i was biased before. Anyway still appreciate your trick.

btw do you know how do we know if our phone and tws connected by aptx or aac, or any way we can choose them? I dont want to force in aptx in developer mode since some my bluetooth devices don't support APTX. thoughts?


----------



## dasadab

bronco1015 said:


> No problem at all. Do post about which ones you end up getting, and if you find another pair that fits this category well, definitely want to hear about them.


Tested the Bomaker yesterday for my spouse.  I am impressed with the small size, quality, and fit for the price ($10 off on Amazon).  They paired right up and are very light and comfortable on me.  I thought that dollar for dollar they are quite good.  I would call them %75 of the LP2, which is well within the musical range.  But..having just tried my Powerbeats pro (which due to their size I never thought to have her try), she much prefers the form factor of the PBP.  So, I am going to likely keep the Bomakers for me and my wife is happy with with PBP.  Problem solved, plus I got a fine introduction to the Bomakers as a bonus.


----------



## chinmie

RobinFood said:


> I just had a question for all you guys doing some sweating with the X12.
> I just started going back to the gym after a 2 year exercise-less life lead to some stress hives, and my X12s were upgraded to gym use.
> Anyways, they come out kind of sweaty and I'd like to clean them. The idea of not cleaning them between visits is like the idea of not changing underwear between visits.
> 
> So, how do you guys clean your gym use true wireless earphones. Do you scrub them with a sponge with dish soap under running water? Do you just rinse them with water? Do you go with alcohol wipes?



I don't  know about the ipx rating of the X12, so i would hesitate to rinse it under running water..alcohol wipes might be safer


----------



## maricius

dasadab said:


> Tested the Bomaker yesterday for my spouse.  I am impressed with the small size, quality, and fit for the price ($10 off on Amazon).  They paired right up and are very light and comfortable on me.  I thought that dollar for dollar they are quite good.  I would call them %75 of the LP2, which is well within the musical range.  But..having just tried my Powerbeats pro (which due to their size I never thought to have her try), she much prefers the form factor of the PBP.  So, I am going to likely keep the Bomakers for me and my wife is happy with with PBP.  Problem solved, plus I got a fine introduction to the Bomakers as a bonus.



I've read that the PBP are actually pretty decent sounding or at least better than the AirPods Pro which are okay sounding! How do you find their sound compared to the Bomakers?


----------



## wksoh (Jan 12, 2020)

bronco1015 said:


> Try out the Fiil t1x if you do get your own twe. imo that one, the Bomaker SiFi and the Tronsmart spunky beat are the top 3 to buy under $50


Think I'm a minority. I have SSK and spunky beat. They sound clearer but also thinner to me. At higher volumes they lack power and shrill somewhat. But i understand majority of folks like them. With standard ear tips Mpow M5 appeals more to my ears. Even my brothers think my favourite speakers sound muffled. Meanwhile, T1X is on the way....


----------



## Bhelpoori

clerkpalmer said:


> So far the N6 Pro is quite nice.  While I don't think they are necessarily game changing, I do think they are moving the needle in the right direction for those who value SQ above all else.  They are extremely balanced and neutral to my ears.  If I didn't know these were single DD IEMS, I would think they could pass for a hybrid.  The highs are extremely crisp and detailed.  Detail and separation are the stars of the show to a level I don't think I've heard on a TWS.  There is a sense of openness and air that is also typically missing from TWS.  Not sure if that's the HDSS or what that is contributing to that.  The bass or lack thereof is fine.  These aren't bass light they just aren't bass heavy.  I listen to mostly alternative and rock.  Since I'm stuck with an iphone, I can't bump the bass and I would like to give them a try with a little boost but I'm pretty satisfied with it as is.  There is zero bleed and they can go low where the track calls for it.  If you put a gun to my head, I think I would say they even edge out the MW07 for SQ.  What they lack in tonality, they gain in detail and soundstage.
> 
> As an aside, I was traveling this week and used my APP exclusively and man are they awesome.  I used to carry multiple pairs on travel but I think APP is so good, so convenient and so small that I probably would't bother anymore.  The ANC was more than sufficient on the plane and allowed me to keep volume at 50%.
> 
> Now, I would really like to see if Bose can beat the APP with better SQ and ANC.  Or maybe Nuarl will add ANC to the N6.  I'm starting to think ANC is going to be a requirement for me going forward.  Once you have it, it's hard to give it up.



I share the same views on the APP and it is rapidly becoming the only (mobile) headphone whether over-ear or TWS I reach for. However I've been tempted with the Nuarl since the first 01AX. Is the sound quality significantly better than the APP that it is worth getting?


----------



## clerkpalmer

Bhelpoori said:


> I share the same views on the APP and it is rapidly becoming the only (mobile) headphone whether over-ear or TWS I reach for. However I've been tempted with the Nuarl since the first 01AX. Is the sound quality significantly better than the APP that it is worth getting?



Yes the sq is that much better. Sq is APPs biggest weakness. I’ve grown used to it and don’t mind it for music but I would never use them for music outside of the gym or travel. For critical listening no way. 

The bigger issue really is whether you need a sq first tws headset with no bells and whistles. When I’m going to sit and listen to music id probably go with my wired set up. In the gym and traveling the ANC is becoming a must have for me. So where does the N6 slot it? For me at least, they slot in somewhere between wired and APP. If you have a use case for something like that (still not sure I do) then grab them.


----------



## Bhelpoori

maricius said:


> Purchased a pair of Mpow M5 for a friend but of course I just had to give them a good listen before giving them off
> 
> All impressions are with a MacBook Pro, AptX enabled, and an iPhone 6s (no AptX) both running Spotify Premium
> 
> ...


I got the Mpow M5s before I got the APP and for me it sounds better than the Anbes 359 (original) or Syllable S101 and I agree with @Bartig that it has good sound, even if my musical tastes don't hit it's sweet spot.

However, and this is for me what separates on-ears from TWS for me, I find the case to be the worst of all the TWS I've had, and it is so bad that I've not used it much in spite of it having the best sound. I wouldn't even mention any of the cases for my on-ears but for a TWS they are incredibly important for me. 

Let me go through why I dislike it so much:

The case is shaped like a large lozenge, which is just the wrong shape. It is too thick for my trouser pocket but is too small to go into a bag and find it. Easily. Yet in area, it isn't that big.
The outer covering of the fake leather got scratched with my fingernail before I'd even opened it for the first time. It is now scratched everywhere.
I cannot tell which way round to open it without looking at it, and frequently make a mistake even with looking at it.
The lid is difficult to open needing a fingernail under the lid to open it on mine
It is hard for me to get the earphones out of the magnetic grasp
I sometimes mix up left and right when putting them back and there's nothing physically obvious to stop putting L into R and R into L. 
The case just feels cheap. The sound on closing the lid, the feel of the outside... the little things which for the cost I paid ($30) is something I'm willing to forgive
It has micro-usb which is again something I'm willing to forgive
Whilst I'm not an Apple fanboy, one has to argue that the APP (and Airpod) got this one spot on, but then in the case of the APP at 7-8 times the cost, they really should have...


----------



## dasadab

maricius said:


> I've read that the PBP are actually pretty decent sounding or at least better than the AirPods Pro which are okay sounding! How do you find their sound compared to the Bomakers?[/QUOTE
> 
> The Powerbeats pro is a solid upgrade from the bomaker. Of course, the Powerbeats pro are five times as expensive and have a very different form factor. Whenever I go back to the Powerbeats pro, I remain impressed by just how good they sound. They also have lockdown Apple connectivity.  The downside is that they are quite large and the case is big and heavy.


----------



## Bhelpoori

clerkpalmer said:


> Yes the sq is that much better. Sq is APPs biggest weakness. I’ve grown used to it and don’t mind it for music but I would never use them for music outside of the gym or travel. For critical listening no way.
> 
> The bigger issue really is whether you need a sq first tws headset with no bells and whistles. When I’m going to sit and listen to music id probably go with my wired set up. In the gym and traveling the ANC is becoming a must have for me. So where does the N6 slot it? For me at least, they slot in somewhere between wired and APP. If you have a use case for something like that (still not sure I do) then grab them.


Thank you. I too struggle to have a use case for them having a good wired setup at my office desk that is almost certainly better than the N6s.


----------



## AudioNoob

Do any sub $100 models support multipoint (being connected to multiple devices at the same time)?


----------



## cwill (Jan 12, 2020)

I THINK I know what's causing my Spunky Beat problems. I got a second pair and they're doing the same thing. My theory is that my "tragus" (Google it) is touching the touch sensor all the time when they're inserted, and that is causing touch registers. They literally power themselves off while I'm wearing them, and this is the only thing I can think of. The solution could be longer tips, but then they won't fit in the case. I really hate touch controls.


----------



## cwill

Does anyone have an extra set of SSK they'd be willing to sell me?


----------



## tma6

Bhelpoori said:


> Thank you. I too struggle to have a use case for them having a good wired setup at my office desk that is almost certainly better than the N6s.



Yeah this is a good point. As someone who uses TWS primarily while walking around NYC, I’ve been waiting for one that allows me to do some critical listening on the go. For that they’ve been surprisingly awesome. Also I’m just sick of wires, and while they don’t sound as good as some of my high end wired earbuds, the fact that they’re even approximating some of the things that those do is exciting to me. I do think though that the use case question is a good one to ask regarding the N6 Pros, and of potentially audiophile grade TWS that may come out in the future. If you’re in a stationary listening environment, it does seem like the advantages of TWS over wired are minimized. I agree with @clerkpalmer though, I’d be so hyped if NUARL made something that sounds like the N6 Pro that also has a good IP rating, effective ANC, and app EQ.


----------



## howdy

Trying out Qobiz with the Sonys, Senns and L2P while jammin to Rush! Trying that free month trial and I like the sound. Wish I could transfer my Tidal Playlist. Sonys are still on leader board. Love that sound!


----------



## Quicky32

Maybe I’m wrong but the T1X sound better using my IPhone 11 Pro Max than my Ipod.


----------



## voicemaster

Quicky32 said:


> Maybe I’m wrong but the T1X sound better using my IPhone 11 Pro Max than my Ipod.


Iphone = top of the line
Ipod = poor man's iphone


----------



## vladzakhar

tma6 said:


> Yeah this is a good point. As someone who uses TWS primarily while walking around NYC, I’ve been waiting for one that allows me to do some critical listening on the go. For that they’ve been surprisingly awesome. Also I’m just sick of wires, and while they don’t sound as good as some of my high end wired earbuds, the fact that they’re even approximating some of the things that those do is exciting to me. I do think though that the use case question is a good one to ask regarding the N6 Pros, and of potentially audiophile grade TWS that may come out in the future. If you’re in a stationary listening environment, it does seem like the advantages of TWS over wired are minimized. I agree with @clerkpalmer though, I’d be so hyped if NUARL made something that sounds like the N6 Pro that also has a good IP rating, effective ANC, and app EQ.


I think Nuarl N6/n6 pro isolate better then APPs with ANC on.


----------



## georgelai57

cwill said:


> I THINK I know what's causing my Spunky Beat problems. I got a second pair and they're doing the same thing. My theory is that my "tragus" (Google it) is touching the touch sensor all the time when they're inserted, and that is causing touch registers. They literally power themselves off while I'm wearing them, and this is the only thing I can think of. The solution could be longer tips, but then they won't fit in the case. I really hate touch controls.


I love my Spunky Beats, (hate the name!), but I dread adjusting them in my admittedly large ears as I’d invariably touch the touch controls and, usually, power them off by mistake. I wish manufacturers would allow an option to switch off controls totally. I tend to control using my always-nearby iPhone and always-wearing Apple Watch anyway.


----------



## cwill

georgelai57 said:


> I love my Spunky Beats, (hate the name!), but I dread adjusting them in my admittedly large ears as I’d invariably touch the touch controls and, usually, power them off by mistake. I wish manufacturers would allow an option to switch off controls totally. I tend to control using my always-nearby iPhone and always-wearing Apple Watch anyway.


Agreed. I like the sound a lot. If I could just turn off the touch I think they'd be just fine and I'd have no problems.


----------



## chinmie

clerkpalmer said:


> the ANC is becoming a must have for me.



Yes, i personally think ANC tech is heaven-sent. It made me realise just how noisy the world is now. The good thing is, even if ANC already exist for quite a while, it is only after Apple brought to light in the APP that the common general public start noticing, and also make the whole audio industry move to catch up. 
Sony, Bose, and others might have done it earlier and better, but only audio hobbyists and few other people that know it

Now seeing that even some 50 usd chifi TWS like this BQC35 (which by the way I've just tested for motorcycle riding, and it performed awesomely) can deliver good ANC is a good news for us as the consumers. I remember the older days when ANC would have those effect like someone's put a vacuum to my ears and sucked the air out...no matter how good the ANC effect, it's just not worth the inconvenience. Nowadays even this cheaper TWS don't produce that effect.



AudioNoob said:


> Do any sub $100 models support multipoint (being connected to multiple devices at the same time)?



Not that i know of..the best bet i guess is to purchase the Jabra 65T at discounted price to get that feature



georgelai57 said:


> I love my Spunky Beats



Love it or hate it, but that sentence is golden


----------



## SilverEars

clerkpalmer said:


> Now, I would really like to see if Bose can beat the APP with better SQ and ANC.  Or maybe Nuarl will add ANC to the N6.  I'm starting to think ANC is going to be a requirement for me going forward.  Once you have it, it's hard to give it up.


Bose need to keep the size small like APP, not large like their other ones, and increase the battery life to improve upon it.  I'm having some doubts Bose can do it, but we'll see what they come up with.


----------



## SilverEars

Anker Soundcore Liberty 2 Pro review in Korean (use Google translate).

https://www.0db.co.kr/REVIEW_0DB/1101022


----------



## howdy

SilverEars said:


> Bose need to keep the size small like APP, not large like their other ones, and increase the battery life to improve upon it.  I'm having some doubts Bose can do it, but we'll see what they come up with.


I hope they release something soon, this is something I'm trying to hold out for.


----------



## clerkpalmer

vladzakhar said:


> I think Nuarl N6/n6 pro isolate better then APPs with ANC on.


I used the APP on the plane last week and they were pretty silent. The engine noise and hum was almost eliminated and I could watch Netflix at about 50 percent. I’ll try the nuarls on the plane tomorrow. I’d be pretty surprised if the engine drone was gone like with the APP.  No iem ive tried has done that on a plane and I usually have to jack the volume.


----------



## clerkpalmer

clerkpalmer said:


> I used the APP on the plane last week and they were pretty silent. The engine noise and hum was almost eliminated and I could watch Netflix at about 50 percent. I’ll try the nuarls on the plane tomorrow. I’d be pretty surprised if the engine drone was gone like with the APP.  No iem ive tried has done that on a plane and I usually have to jack the volume.



Of course now that I’m traveling a bit, I’m eyeing some Bose 700s. Go big or go home right? Anyone have any opinions on NC over ears? The Sony is too bloated for me. Definitely want something a little more balanced.


----------



## Sam L

Do any of you have iems on the more analytical / super accurate side of sound quality? (like anything from etymotic or the hifiman Re400?)

Most everything I've tested over the last 5 months in the tws space are v shaped and somewhat disappointing in terms of accuracy and balance.


----------



## Sam L

clerkpalmer said:


> Of course now that I’m traveling a bit, I’m eyeing some Bose 700s. Go big or go home right? Anyone have any opinions on NC over ears? The Sony is too bloated for me. Definitely want something a little more balanced.



The great thing about the Sonys is the app is rediculously nice in shaping the sound. I don't hear any bloat after tuning the lower end down.


----------



## howdy

Flying to California in May, better start deciding what TW to bring for the 5 hour flight and listen to there as well.


----------



## SilverEars (Jan 12, 2020)

clerkpalmer said:


> Of course now that I’m traveling a bit, I’m eyeing some Bose 700s. Go big or go home right? Anyone have any opinions on NC over ears? The Sony is too bloated for me. Definitely want something a little more balanced.


I would recommend you get the QC35, and save some money.  There's some design issues with the 700 (touch interface, foldability, etc..), and ANC is comparable between them.  If mic is important, 700's mic performance is unbelievably good.  You can talk in a noisy room, and the listener can hear you really well.  I wish this kind of mic performance becomes common because I think it's a very practical performance feature to sound coherent in noisy environments.

Hopefully the XM4 reduces the bass, I like the upper-frequencies of the XM3. Sony was expected to announce the XM4, but I guess they will be holding off until the IFA show in Berlin in the the fall like aways.


----------



## chinmie

SilverEars said:


> Hopefully the XM4 reduces the bass, I like the upper-frequencies of the XM3. Sony was expected to announce the XM4, but I guess they will be holding off until the IFA show in Berlin in the the fall like aways.



If only the XM3 can still use higher codec when using EQ..it is just weird because even the WF XM3 can at least maintain AAC with EQ adjustment. 

Because like you said, i also think the mids and treble of the XM3 to be quite nice sounding


----------



## turbobb (Jan 12, 2020)

Sam L said:


> Do any of you have iems on the more analytical / super accurate side of sound quality? (like anything from etymotic or the hifiman Re400?)
> 
> Most everything I've tested over the last 5 months in the tws space are v shaped and somewhat disappointing in terms of accuracy and balance.



(Note: I'm not an audiophile by any means so please take this with a small grain of salt.)

While I don't have either of the buds you mentioned, I suspect this might suit your needs:
https://www.amazon.com/iTeknic-Headphones-Microphone-Waterproof-Easy-Pairing/dp/B07Y1VRM4R

If you have Amazon and are willing to risk a return, I found them to have a delightful sound sig and fairly accurate but just a teensy bit on the bright side for me (quite close to but not as bright as my Beyer DT1990). They are not v-shaped at all; the bass is there when the track calls for it but isn't prominent at all (since you mention analytical I figured this shouldn't really matter). They have the QCC3020 chip and feature aptX but best of all, they're very affordably priced under at $30 USD.

Mine suffered from driver flex on the left bud, else I would've been inclined to keep them.


----------



## SilverEars (Jan 12, 2020)

chinmie said:


> If only the XM3 can still use higher codec when using EQ..it is just weird because even the WF XM3 can at least maintain AAC with EQ adjustment.
> 
> Because like you said, i also think the mids and treble of the XM3 to be quite nice sounding


It's well known that connection down-grades to SBC from LDAC if using EQ on the Sony app.  I have connected with LDAC at 990 kbps and EQ'd  the bass on USB Audio Player Pro.  I didn't think this reduced the connection's data rate, but I'm not too sure though. USB Audio Player Pro is only available on Android, and it's well worth purchasing.  You can run bit-perfect audio through it's player including Tidal (The Playstore Tidal app runs through the Android OS).


----------



## chinmie

SilverEars said:


> It's well known that connection down-grades to SBC from LDAC if using EQ on the Sony app.  I have connected with LDAC at 990 kbps and EQ'd  the bass on USB Audio Player Pro.  I didn't think this reduced the connection's data rate, but I'm not too sure though. USB Audio Player Pro is only available on Android, and it's well worth purchasing.  You can run bit-perfect audio through it's player including Tidal (The Playstore Tidal app runs through the Android OS).



Mostly my gripe about the codec is only about peace of mind, because in sound perspective, i can't notice significant downgrade in the sound from LDAC to SBC either, and i certainly prefer be able to use EQ and have to go down to SBC than stay on LDAC.
Well at least we know that the driver capabilities of the XM3 is quite good, and we always have the option to use cable and external DAC if we want to use it for more critical listening


----------



## bronco1015 (Jan 12, 2020)

DynamicEars said:


> OMG this is works!!! thanks a bunch mate!! now i got this louder volume like 2 steps up from usual max volume! very helpful!!
> 
> *edit : turn off that disable absolute volume again, i think volume is still the same, i was just listening in my quiet room, tried to on and off but i guess its still the same, i was biased before. Anyway still appreciate your trick.
> 
> btw do you know how do we know if our phone and tws connected by aptx or aac, or any way we can choose them? I dont want to force in aptx in developer mode since some my bluetooth devices don't support APTX. thoughts?


In that same menu where absolute volume is, you can choose to use system default codec, which is AAC for 99% of devs except those that support LDAC and APTXHD. In those cases, you'll be prompted asking whether or not you want to user the higher quality codec or not. otherwise if you have a twe that supports SBC, AAC and APTX; you can switch to any of those codecs in this menu i've refered to. If a twe is actually compatible with the codec you choose, then your audio will stop briefly while your phone switches codecs. Edit, keep it disabled, so when you have a twe that uses the system volume level directly from the twe itself, you can get a bit mor out of it. This helps a tad w my qc35, because i can max the phone out and turn the qc35 down, giving it a tiny bit better sq. i've had a couple other BT devs where this has also been the case.


----------



## bronco1015

dasadab said:


> Tested the Bomaker yesterday for my spouse.  I am impressed with the small size, quality, and fit for the price ($10 off on Amazon).  They paired right up and are very light and comfortable on me.  I thought that dollar for dollar they are quite good.  I would call them %75 of the LP2, which is well within the musical range.  But..having just tried my Powerbeats pro (which due to their size I never thought to have her try), she much prefers the form factor of the PBP.  So, I am going to likely keep the Bomakers for me and my wife is happy with with PBP.  Problem solved, plus I got a fine introduction to the Bomakers as a bonus.


 Nice! that works out in the end, i've heard lots of good stuff about the PBP, never tried them though.


----------



## falang

howdy said:


> How did you get it to work? I just tried twice and still no eq. I uninstalled and forgot device each time and nothing changes.



I just updated the app and it appeared.  Did not delete anything or clear the app cache.


----------



## DigDub

Got the soundcore app update on my android phone today.


----------



## clerkpalmer

SilverEars said:


> I would recommend you get the QC35, and save some money.  There's some design issues with the 700 (touch interface, foldability, etc..), and ANC is comparable between them.  If mic is important, 700's mic performance is unbelievably good.  You can talk in a noisy room, and the listener can hear you really well.  I wish this kind of mic performance becomes common because I think it's a very practical performance feature to sound coherent in noisy environments.
> 
> Hopefully the XM4 reduces the bass, I like the upper-frequencies of the XM3. Sony was expected to announce the XM4, but I guess they will be holding off until the IFA show in Berlin in the the fall like aways.



thanks. A few reviews suggested the 700 sound better. Is that your experience?


----------



## voicemaster

howdy said:


> Flying to California in May, better start deciding what TW to bring for the 5 hour flight and listen to there as well.



I am going to be in a long haul flight (23 hours total) this coming Feb. Will bring my two t1x. I bet they will do just fine in blocking cabin noise because I have used mainly qcy t1 (using newbee foam tips) and it did just fine.


----------



## Bhelpoori

clerkpalmer said:


> Of course now that I’m traveling a bit, I’m eyeing some Bose 700s. Go big or go home right? Anyone have any opinions on NC over ears? The Sony is too bloated for me. Definitely want something a little more balanced.


I compared the Bose 700 with the APP previously on this thread. Summary; If you need a microphone for calls, multipoint or you have long flights then there are some advantages to the 700. If you want the best NC and sound quality (with eq from the app) then get the Sony WH-1000XM3 's or wait for the XM4s.


----------



## DigDub

Battle of the dual drivers. Initial impression is the Soundpeats Truengine SE have very warm mid bass with a big sub bass impact. Eqing the bass to a lower quantity allows the mids and highs to shine through. Pretty nice sound quality.


----------



## Bhelpoori

clerkpalmer said:


> I used the APP on the plane last week and they were pretty silent. The engine noise and hum was almost eliminated and I could watch Netflix at about 50 percent. I’ll try the nuarls on the plane tomorrow. I’d be pretty surprised if the engine drone was gone like with the APP.  No iem ive tried has done that on a plane and I usually have to jack the volume.


The only IEM that isolates better than the NC over ears is the Etymotics which I've carried around on travels since the ER-4P (and now ER4-XR). It is OK for constant noises but way better at voices/babies/random noise but OTOH fit and convenience are not match for the APP.


----------



## Bhelpoori

clerkpalmer said:


> thanks. A few reviews suggested the 700 sound better. Is that your experience?


Both the 700 and QC35 have the same Bose sound signature and the same type of EQ which changes dependent on volume (see Tyll's original QC35 review https://www.innerfidelity.com/conte...comfort-35-wireless-noise-canceling-headphone). It therefore also depends what volume you listen at since they have different volume dependent EQ curves. Personally I find the 700 sound better than the QC35 but I know others who are the reverse, however, I prefer the APP over both with NC on. Bose have been promising an EQ for the 700 app since launch but have yet to deliver, and I feel that would make a big difference.


----------



## Bhelpoori

clerkpalmer said:


> thanks. A few reviews suggested the 700 sound better. Is that your experience?


There are definitely bugs with the 700 (see my previous posts on this and the Bose forums) which Bose have still to fix and are irritating, but the QC35 has some of those bugs too. For me, the only reason to buy the 700s is microphone quality and in that respect there is no better BT headphone/IEM/TWS out right now. It is seriously impressive in a noisy environment. 

I actually prefer the 700 way of folding over the Sony WH/Bose QC35 way since it is simpler, quicker and ends up with a thinner but larger case that fits my flight bags better.


----------



## BigZ12

BigZ12 said:


> Got the SSK BT03 today, after waiting two months for the shipment. Bought at AliExpress.
> And of course... finally looking forward to test them out, and the right bud has less bass/volume than the left one. Have tried several different tips, so it's not a fit issue.
> Anyone else with similar experiences?


It's a faulty product, 100% sure. The right bud has almost no bass, and a little lower volume compared to the left. 
Unusable.

Now I got a proposal of $10 (paid $29) from SSK on AliExpress. (I opened a dispute)
What to do??!


----------



## Kvarkmeister (Jan 13, 2020)

@voicemaster
Does your FIIL T1X case lid jiggle a bit when it's closed? Or is it closed solid?


----------



## Sebulr (Jan 13, 2020)

georgelai57 said:


> allow


 I have the same problem with my ceppekky h0. Hahaha that's a bad quote. Keyboard is too big on my tablet. I was referring to touch controls being annoying.


----------



## webvan

ok I broke down and got the FIIL T1X from Geekbuying shipped from Italy, so they should be here by the end of the week. They're 2x the Amazon US price but since I'm sending back my Bomakers (just don't sit properly in my right ear if I start moving around) that's freeing up some funds. Also if the T1X are indeed better than the L2Ps as is claimed by some I'll be saving even more...and will be happy to ditch the hiss (I have v2) in any case !


----------



## d3myz (Jan 13, 2020)

DigDub said:


> Battle of the dual drivers. Initial impression is the Soundpeats Truengine SE have very warm mid bass with a big sub bass impact. Eqing the bass to a lower quantity allows the mids and highs to shine through. Pretty nice sound quality.


Weird, I thought the SoundPeats were some of the worst Qualcomm based TWS' iv'e ever heard. Hollow and Cave like. While the L2pro is in my top 5. Kind of like comparing a Maserati to a Nissan Altima.


----------



## DigDub (Jan 13, 2020)

d3myz said:


> Weird, I thought the SoundPeats were some of the worst Qualcomm based TWS' iv'e ever heard. Hollow and Cave like. While the L2pro is in my top 5. Kind of like comparing a Maserati to a Nissan Altima.


I've seen yours and bartig's impression on the truengine SE which were unfavorable. I'm not sure if Soundpeats have tweaked the sound, but mine sounds pretty good, crystal clear mids and highs, the bass needs to be lowered a tad to overcome it's power. In fact, I like the highs in the truengine better than the L2P, the L2P has that metallic treble typical of armature drivers. I also feel the truengine has a wider soundstage than the L2P. The fit on the truengine is also better as it is a typical earbud fit and is very comfortable, while the L2P never really felt secure due to the size of the buds outside the ear cavity. The bass on the L2P has better quality though and the battery life is better.


----------



## Blueshound24

I posted this on the 'Deals' thread as well.

For the apple fans, Apple AirPods with Charging Case (Latest Model) $129, normally $159.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07PXGQC1Q/


----------



## voicemaster (Jan 13, 2020)

Got my tronsmart spunky beats 2 weeks ago actually, but haven't really listening with it until 2 days ago. Sound quality is great, pretty balance of bass, mid and high. The sound is kinda similar to mpow m5 imho. Fit is great once you change the tips. I am using foam tips. Case is great and the built in charging cable is quite useful. One thing that I hate from this TWS is the touch control. This thing is shaped kind of flat which makes them very low profile unlike most other TWS that sticking out your ears when worn but that is also its downside because the touch control is very sensitive and you will 100% "accidentally" touch the TWS and it will pause your music. 
Also, I just experienced not long ago that the TWS will just disconnected and powering off by itself, this is only happened to me once and I don't know what causes it. Another weakness is the bluetooth connection strength. If I cupped my hand to one side of my ear, the connection from that side of IEM will be cut out. Otherwise, the connection and re-connection speed is really fast. I haven't tried the microphone for calling yet and I will update if I have done it in near future.
Overall, for only $24 at AE, this TWS is pretty good in value. The best feature from Tronsmart Spunky Beat is their sound quality. It might not be the most fun sounding aka bass monster, but it provide you with good clarity, detail and timbre, nice separation and soundstage, and a sound profile that you can enjoy for long listening time (no sibilance or spiky treble).


----------



## assassin10000

voicemaster said:


> Got my tronsmart spunky beats 2 weeks ago actually, but haven't really listening with it until 2 days ago. Sound quality is great, pretty balance of bass, mid and high. The sound is kinda similar to mpow m5 imho. Fit is great once you change the tips. I am using foam tips. Case is great and the built in charging cable is quite useful. One thing that I hate from this TWS is the touch control. This thing is shaped kind of flat which makes them very low profile unlike most other TWS that sticking out your ears when worn but that is also its downside because the touch control is very sensitive and you will 100% "accidentally" touch the TWS and it will pause your music.
> Also, I just experienced not long ago that the TWS will just disconnected and powering off by itself, this is only happened to me once and I don't know what causes it. Another weakness is the bluetooth connection strength. If I cupped my hand to one side of my ear, the connection from that side of IEM will be cut out. Otherwise, the connection and re-connection speed is really fast. I haven't tried the microphone for calling yet and I will update if I have done it in near future.
> Overall, for only $24 at AE, this TWS is pretty good in value. The best feature from Tronsmart Spunky Beat is their sound quality. It might not be the most fun sounding aka bass monster, but it provide you with good clarity, detail and timbre, nice separation and soundstage, and a sound profile that you can enjoy for long listening time (no sibilance or spiky treble).



After using mine for a week I got used to the touch sensors and no longer do that everytime lol.

I ordered those ikko foams since they are shallower fit like the stock tips. I have small shallow ears so hopefully they work out.



assassin10000 said:


> Anyone using these foam tips? Considering trying them out as it looks like they may work with some TWS cases and still charge.
> 
> ikko i-planet
> https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B07WG5Q129/


----------



## sjino

voicemaster said:


> Got my tronsmart spunky beats 2 weeks ago actually, but haven't really listening with it until 2 days ago. Sound quality is great, pretty balance of bass, mid and high. The sound is kinda similar to mpow m5 imho.



Thanks for the information. I've been considering both the Spunky Beats and the Mpow m5, so I'd be curious to know which sound signature you prefer. I don't need crazy amounts of bass. My preference is clarity, no sibilance or shrillness in the high end, plus good separation and a wide soundstage. In your opinion, which of these would best meet that need?

Thanks again.


----------



## Cretz42

Bhelpoori said:


> I got the Mpow M5s before I got the APP and for me it sounds better than the Anbes 359 (original) or Syllable S101 and I agree with @Bartig that it has good sound, even if my musical tastes don't hit it's sweet spot.
> 
> However, and this is for me what separates on-ears from TWS for me, I find the case to be the worst of all the TWS I've had, and it is so bad that I've not used it much in spite of it having the best sound. I wouldn't even mention any of the cases for my on-ears but for a TWS they are incredibly important for me.
> 
> ...



This post has "1st World Problems" all over it lol...


----------



## turbobb (Jan 13, 2020)

Cretz42 said:


> This post has "1st World Problems" all over it lol...


As with pretty much every single other post citing a "problem" on this forum... 

However, in all seriousness, re: point 5 on his list - I really detest the combo of the M5's shape and they way the go into the case; they are nearly impossible to pull out correctly on the first try. I have to dig my fingers under the buds to pry them out. It's not a great design. As I age and also interact more frequently with the elderly and observe their use of daily objects, I've really come to appreciate good ergonomics and ease of use that I may have taken for granted in my youth when I was just a bit more dexterous.


----------



## d3myz (Jan 13, 2020)

Wanted to give some feedback on the AirPods Pro and ask a question. I've been using them for about a month now and I love everything about them except for the sound, it's mediocre. So I started having issues with delays in siri and voice dictation on my phone not working. Part of this was due to me adding a Apple watch to my ecosystem, I think. Anyway, then the charging case had issues and i'd have one bud connect and not the other until I put it back in the case and then back in my ear. The last issue was the inability to get ANC working with one earbud in, even after the setting was toggled. Ok 1st world crap, yea. SOOO, I replaced them and got my new pair today. In A/B comparisons for some reason the new ones have better, louder transparency and the ANC works even better. No connection issues or delay and yes they are both the same firmware. Here's the thing, I do remember my first pair sounding better when I got them. I feel like over time the transparency seemed less loud or clear and the ANC didn't block as much out. My theory is dirt and ear wax getting in the screens, but I'm just guessing here, whenever I notice a build up of wax or dirt on the microphones I'd clean them off with a microfiber towel. SO, anyone have any experience or thoughts on this? Why do my new APPs sound better than my month old ones?


----------



## voicemaster (Jan 13, 2020)

sjino said:


> Thanks for the information. I've been considering both the Spunky Beats and the Mpow m5, so I'd be curious to know which sound signature you prefer. I don't need crazy amounts of bass. My preference is clarity, no sibilance or shrillness in the high end, plus good separation and a wide soundstage. In your opinion, which of these would best meet that need?
> 
> Thanks again.


I like the sound of the tronsmart a bit better than the m5 and the case is much smaller too. The tronsmart has thicker vocal than the T1X, but not as much as the M5. The other sound specs are pretty alike between the M5 and TSB imho (separation, soundstage, treble and bass). Oh and one more thing for the M5 is that it is the most slippery IEM that I've ever own. To get the buds out from the case is a chore for me.


----------



## voicemaster

Is there any differences between tronsmart Onyx Neo and Spunky Beat aside from the strap and built in charging cable on the Spunky Beats?


----------



## Quicky32

Still waiting on a refund or any form of communication back from Anker. They received my LP2 on the 9th of December.  I may have to call instead of email...


----------



## howdy

Quicky32 said:


> Still waiting on a refund or any form of communication back from Anker. They received my LP2 on the 9th of December.  I may have to call instead of email...


You sure it's not going to spam mail? Anker has above average customer service. They always reply within hours and always within a day during regular business hours.


----------



## turbobb (Jan 13, 2020)

DigDub said:


> Battle of the dual drivers. Initial impression is the Soundpeats Truengine SE have very warm mid bass with a big sub bass impact. Eqing the bass to a lower quantity allows the mids and highs to shine through. Pretty nice sound quality.



What's the one w/the Red Logo? (EDIT: Just realized that was the SoundPeats.) Also, what non dual-driver TWS do you have that you'd say the SoundPeats sound closest to? I was interested in them and wanted to try something different but ended up picking the Phaiser Fusion One (https://www.amazon.com/Bluetooth-Headphones-Earphones-Sweatproof-Guarantee/dp/B07ZDGSHD5) and the Wensunnie (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07NVDRLWL). They should be here tomorrow, will post impressions later on.


----------



## howdy

Now that the LP2S have a EQ and able to adjust to my liking I may have to move them up on my personal leaderboard. Sounding really good! Before there was not the coherence I was looking for and now it's close.


----------



## Quicky32

howdy said:


> You sure it's not going to spam mail? Anker has above average customer service. They always reply within hours and always within a day during regular business hours.



The email I sent did not match the email I ordered from. Should be resolved now I would think...


----------



## caprimulgus

Sucks that L2P hasn't been released in Australia...only site that has them is selling them for $299AUD ($206USD).


----------



## DigDub

turbobb said:


> What's the one w/the Red Logo? (EDIT: Just realized that was the SoundPeats.) Also, what non dual-driver TWS do you have that you'd say the SoundPeats sound closest to? I was interested in them and wanted to try something different but ended up picking the Phaiser Fusion One (https://www.amazon.com/Bluetooth-Headphones-Earphones-Sweatproof-Guarantee/dp/B07ZDGSHD5) and the Wensunnie (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07NVDRLWL). They should be here tomorrow, will post impressions later on.


I'd say the mpow t5 is the closest.


----------



## turbobb

DigDub said:


> I'd say the mpow t5 is the closest.



Great thx! I actually do enjoy the T5's sound sig so I might just give the SP's a shot. Looking forward to your shootout impressions.


----------



## luisrodl

howdy said:


> Now that the LP2S have a EQ and able to adjust to my liking I may have to move them up on my personal leaderboard. Sounding really good! Before there was not the coherence I was looking for and now it's close.


I have been playing around with the EQ too but I doubt myself to have the know-how to do it correctly. I trust the peeps in this board more. Could you share your EQ to try it out?


----------



## Sam L

Kvarkmeister said:


> @voicemaster
> Does your FIIL T1X case lid jiggle a bit when it's closed? Or is it closed solid?



Mine doesn't jiggle unless you actually force it. There is a small amount of play but not noticeable since the magnet holds the lid in place sufficiently


----------



## d3myz

luisrodl said:


> I have been playing around with the EQ too but I doubt myself to have the know-how to do it correctly. I trust the peeps in this board more. Could you share your EQ to try it out?


I posted my eq's a couple pages back, maybe 10?


----------



## luisrodl

d3myz said:


> I posted my eq's a couple pages back, maybe 10?


Those two are the ones you meant then. Thanks! Already have them set on my custom. Your settings, specially the second are great.


----------



## d3myz

Sam L said:


> Mine doesn't jiggle unless you actually force it. There is a small amount of play but not noticeable since the magnet holds the lid in place sufficiently


Mine is loose, but doesn't jiggle.


----------



## Firevortex

voicemaster said:


> Is there any differences between tronsmart Onyx Neo and Spunky Beat aside from the strap and built in charging cable on the Spunky Beats?



nope nothing. both identical. Tronsmart is a geekbuying brand. best SQ TWE i've heard in the sub $100 category. not sure how they sell it for sub $20 and make a profit. Only 1more stylish manage to beat it.


----------



## FYLegend

voicemaster said:


> Is there any differences between tronsmart Onyx Neo and Spunky Beat aside from the strap and built in charging cable on the Spunky Beats?





Firevortex said:


> nope nothing. both identical. Tronsmart is a geekbuying brand. best SQ TWE i've heard in the sub $100 category. not sure how they sell it for sub $20 and make a profit. Only 1more stylish manage to beat it.


Actually they seem to be different. @Bartig and JayceeOoi both said the Spunky Beat is bassier and more fun-sounding while Onyx Neo is brighter-sounding. I haven't tried Spunky Beat but I agree with that assessment about the Onyx Neo.

Unfortunately my unit has more mids on the left and more sibilance on the right. It's not noticeable on most tracks but on some the snares just hit hard on the left (test track: My Leaving by Kenichiro Nishihara). Oddly at higher volumes it seems a bit more balanced.They want me to send it in via Aliexpress before receiving a possible replacement but I'm not sure it's worth the time and shipping cost (took 3 weeks to ship to Canada with a chunk of time consumed by "processing order" and
awaiting dispatched"). I get they may have their own reason for that but other manufacturers I've dealt with have been more willing to send replacements. Don't just tell me "the replacement won't have this problem."



wksoh said:


> Think I'm a minority. I have SSK and spunky beat. They sound clearer but also thinner to me. At higher volumes they lack power and shrill somewhat. But i understand majority of folks like them. With standard ear tips Mpow M5 appeals more to my ears. Even my brothers think my favourite speakers sound muffled. Meanwhile, T1X is on the way....


I have the Onyx Neo. It also has the same issue sounding shrill at high volumes with some distortion. It's especially bad for songs like Nujabes Luv sic 3 (which has a mild vinyl-crackle throughout but there's an unnecessary clipping or rattle that happens with the Onyx Neo).



BigZ12 said:


> It's a faulty product, 100% sure. The right bud has almost no bass, and a little lower volume compared to the left.
> Unusable.
> 
> Now I got a proposal of $10 (paid $29) from SSK on AliExpress. (I opened a dispute)
> What to do??!


Sorry to hear, I had the same issue with my Anbes clone. Second time they gave me a BE30 Air with no volume control but had true mono mode. It too had imbalance (left buds has more treble) as with my Onyx Neo, Sabbat E12 Ultra etc. Tuning was totally different as well (less bright and more balanced). I would follow through with the dispute, though you will need to provide convincing proof with your audio recording. I tried doing this with my Sabbat E12 but the seller gave a poor excuse of "give time to burn in" and the Aliexpress mod was like "I can't hear the difference,".


----------



## clerkpalmer

Bhelpoori said:


> There are definitely bugs with the 700 (see my previous posts on this and the Bose forums) which Bose have still to fix and are irritating, but the QC35 has some of those bugs too. For me, the only reason to buy the 700s is microphone quality and in that respect there is no better BT headphone/IEM/TWS out right now. It is seriously impressive in a noisy environment.
> 
> I actually prefer the 700 way of folding over the Sony WH/Bose QC35 way since it is simpler, quicker and ends up with a thinner but larger case that fits my flight bags better.



thanks for the responses. I decided to stick with my APP given the lukewarm reception to the 700s. I’ve owned the QC35 in a past life and thought they were “meh”.


----------



## georgelai57

d3myz said:


> Mine is loose, but doesn't jiggle.


I’m glad you posted the quote you were replying to


----------



## jfvny

chinmie said:


> Now seeing that even some 50 usd chifi TWS like this BQC35 (which by the way I've just tested for motorcycle riding, and it performed awesomely) can deliver good ANC is a good news for us as the consumers. I remember the older days when ANC would have those effect like someone's put a vacuum to my ears and sucked the air out...no matter how good the ANC effect, it's just not worth the inconvenience. Nowadays even this cheaper TWS don't produce that effect.


Hope you don't mind me asking, but how would you compare the ANC between the BQC35 and the sony WF-1000xm3? I've tried out the Sonys and while the ANC is noticeable, it's not quite worth the asking price imo, so was wondering how the chifi one fares.


----------



## BigZ12

FYLegend said:


> Sorry to hear, I had the same issue with my Anbes clone. Second time they gave me a BE30 Air with no volume control but had true mono mode. It too had imbalance (left buds has more treble) as with my Onyx Neo, Sabbat E12 Ultra etc. Tuning was totally different as well (less bright and more balanced). I would follow through with the dispute, though you will need to provide convincing proof with your audio recording. I tried doing this with my Sabbat E12 but the seller gave a poor excuse of "give time to burn in" and the Aliexpress mod was like "I can't hear the difference,".



I got this answer today:
"You know that the picture evidence you provided doesn't mean anything,We think you might not like our products,so i thought you would accept the offer of a partial refund."


----------



## BigZ12

BigZ12 said:


> I got this answer today:
> "You know that the picture evidence you provided doesn't mean anything,We think you might not like our products,so i thought you would accept the offer of a partial refund."


FYI, this is the answer from SSK customer support, when I opened a dispute on AliExpress because I have no bass and an inbalance in volume on the right bud of the BT03. Got that reply after I rejected a $10 partial refund.
Wow, this is bad customer service. They are actually blaming me for "faking" a dispute because I don't like their product...


----------



## Peddler (Jan 14, 2020)

BigZ12 said:


> FYI, this is the answer from SSK customer support, when I opened a dispute on AliExpress because I have no bass and an inbalance in volume on the right bud of the BT03. Got that reply after I rejected a $10 partial refund.
> Wow, this is bad customer service. They are actually blaming me for "faking" a dispute because I don't like their product...




I suppose the answer to this has to be to never buy from them again and actively discourage others from doing so. I certainly wouldn't buy anything from that bunch of crooks.

Much as I don't really like Amazon's market dominance, you really can't fault their returns policy.


----------



## bronco1015

BigZ12 said:


> FYI, this is the answer from SSK customer support, when I opened a dispute on AliExpress because I have no bass and an inbalance in volume on the right bud of the BT03. Got that reply after I rejected a $10 partial refund.
> Wow, this is bad customer service. They are actually blaming me for "faking" a dispute because I don't like their product...


 I agree with peddler. i've been hesitant to buy from AE just not being familiar with them but mor than that, anything i might have purchased from them i've been able to find on Amazon U.S. Despite their dominance it's hard not to use them because of easy returns etc. And, now i'm not to disapointed i missed out on the BT03 after reading about your experience. what's the name of the seller just in case they use the same name on Amazon, geekbuying etc?


----------



## Dcell7

BigZ12 said:


> FYI, this is the answer from SSK customer support, when I opened a dispute on AliExpress because I have no bass and an inbalance in volume on the right bud of the BT03. Got that reply after I rejected a $10 partial refund.
> Wow, this is bad customer service. They are actually blaming me for "faking" a dispute because I don't like their product...



Unfortunately it is quite common practice on Aliexpress. There are good sellers but also some with very bad customer service. 

For example i ordered 2 glass screen protectors for my iPhone X (5.8 inch). They sent me 2 for the iPhone XR (6.1 inch). I contact the seller saying they made a mistake and how do we solve this ? I provide the seller pictures of the product clearly stating “for iphone XR” and the outer packaging with the trackingcode readable (which can be related to the order i made) and i got a reply that it was not their product ??? Talk about knowing your own products.

Then i made another picture with the paper box of the product which has their brand name on it and the seller was quiet for a while. After that i got told just try it on your phone. Some screen protectors are universal. So i had to sent another picture placing the screen protector on top of my phone to show them that a screen protector for a 6.1 inch phone does not fit on a 5.8 inch phone ....

After that i got a reply that they are willing to refund me. The first thing i told them was no Paypal and do i have to start dispute for the refund ? Again quiet for a while. Then i got unpatient and just started dispute with enough proof. Luckily Aliexpress sided with me as it was clear it was a fault. On audio products ofcourse it is hard to proof the malfunctioning. Especially when it comes to sound.


----------



## BigZ12

bronco1015 said:


> I agree with peddler. i've been hesitant to buy from AE just not being familiar with them but mor than that, anything i might have purchased from them i've been able to find on Amazon U.S. Despite their dominance it's hard not to use them because of easy returns etc. And, now i'm not to disapointed i missed out on the BT03 after reading about your experience. what's the name of the seller just in case they use the same name on Amazon, geekbuying etc?


SSK Official Store


----------



## RobinFood

@chinmie , I was wondering if you could compare the Dyplay ANC-TWS to the Sony WF-1000MX3. 

I've been holding off getting an upgrade on my Nuarls because I want ANC and when the Sony's go on special they are just 50-60$ more than it would cost me to upgrade my set. I also saw that Dyplay released a smaller looking ANC TWS set called the ANC-Shield that seem to have a really nice form factor and smaller case than the monster Sony case, but how does the sound and ANC compare (probably not fair...)

Also, do your Dyplay have ambient mode? Ambient mode well implemented is something I really need for office and home use when the kids and wife are there. The Freebuds 3 also look really interesting but the price is free-falling from the release price and open buds with ANC is something I am not sure would work well.


----------



## chinmie

jfvny said:


> Hope you don't mind me asking, but how would you compare the ANC between the BQC35 and the sony WF-1000xm3? I've tried out the Sonys and while the ANC is noticeable, it's not quite worth the asking price imo, so was wondering how the chifi one fares.





RobinFood said:


> @chinmie , I was wondering if you could compare the Dyplay ANC-TWS to the Sony WF-1000MX3.
> 
> I've been holding off getting an upgrade on my Nuarls because I want ANC and when the Sony's go on special they are just 50-60$ more than it would cost me to upgrade my set. I also saw that Dyplay released a smaller looking ANC TWS set called the ANC-Shield that seem to have a really nice form factor and smaller case than the monster Sony case, but how does the sound and ANC compare (probably not fair...)
> 
> Also, do your Dyplay have ambient mode? Ambient mode well implemented is something I really need for office and home use when the kids and wife are there. The Freebuds 3 also look really interesting but the price is free-falling from the release price and open buds with ANC is something I am not sure would work well.



i did a little comparison between both of them a few pages back

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/goi...e-we-there-yet.861024/page-1225#post-15408072

for me, both the XM3 and BQC35 worth their price. i use the BQC35 for gym use, running, and motorcycle rides.. well, basically for more "beater ANC" uses, while the XM3 for travelling and mostly indoor listening. what we paid more on the XM3 are for better sound, ANC, and app support, but the BQC35 also edges out the XM3 for better fit. 

so in short, @jfvny  the BQC35 for me personally worth their price indeed

@RobinFood unfortunately it doesn't have ambient mode, although because the passive noise blocking is not too good compared to the XM3 (I'd say it's on par to the Nillkin Go) so with ANC off it kinda do "semi ambient" mode.


----------



## Laurence11

howdy said:


> Now that the LP2S have a EQ and able to adjust to my liking I may have to move them up on my personal leaderboard. Sounding really good! Before there was not the coherence I was looking for and now it's close.



could you please share your eq settings?

thank you!


----------



## webvan

webvan said:


> I was also looking at "glossy" foam tips as I liked the version that came with the Jabra Elite Sport for isolation (and grip) and in fact it seems that "New Bee" also make some : https://www.amazon.co.uk/Replacement-New-Bee-Earbuds-4-5mm-6-3mm-S-M-L/dp/B07RXN1HGG that look a lot like the FEYCH except they're only available as a S/M/L combo kit.


So I received the "New Bee" foam tips that look glossy in the pictures but...in fact they're not much "glossier" than Complys, and are not the "hard foam" tips that shipped with the Jabra Elite Sport at all. I was hoping I could use them with the Bomaker Sifi but it seems not as they make them protrude way too much. Same with the M5s. But like the Complys they just suck the life out of the music too by just "muffling" the sound compared to Silicone tips (obvious when listening with different tips at the same time). Note to self : stop trying to use foam tips


----------



## brownpigeon (Jan 14, 2020)

Anyone tried the Dyplay ANC Shield?  Tempted to get a pair but I don't think they'll make it through Chinese customs before the New Year


----------



## jfvny (Jan 14, 2020)

chinmie said:


> i did a little comparison between both of them a few pages back
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/goi...e-we-there-yet.861024/page-1225#post-15408072
> 
> ...



Thanks a lot for the comparison! Guess I'll be watching these for a price drop to be used just for flights


----------



## hifi80sman

turbobb said:


> Great thx! I actually do enjoy the T5's sound sig so I might just give the SP's a shot. Looking forward to your shootout impressions.


If you do try the SoundPeats TE, I'd be interested to see what your impressions are.  I had them a while back and they sounded bad, really bad (hollow, 1k spike) and @d3myz and myself pretty much heard it the same (we don't necessarily have the same preferences, either).  It entirely possible they have since revised them.


----------



## turbobb

hifi80sman said:


> If you do try the SoundPeats TE, I'd be interested to see what your impressions are.  I had them a while back and they sounded bad, really bad (hollow, 1k spike) and @d3myz and myself pretty much heard it the same (we don't necessarily have the same preferences, either).  It entirely possible they have since revised them.



Ah, now I remember why I avoided it and it was cuz of your feedback (I think we have similar sound sig preferences). Let me play with the two I have inbound first and then I'll see about this one. Thx for chiming in!


----------



## vaaccess (Jan 16, 2020)

clerkpalmer said:


> No iem ive tried has done that on a plane and I usually have to jack the volume.



My Klipsch X11s with Comply tips are pretty much silent. I was on a plane and during the flight there was a medical emergency. I had no idea, heard nothing. Of course I was watching Daredevil on Netflix, which was pretty captivating.

looking for TWS to replace the X11s as I’m tired of the wire. Reading through my focus is on the N6Pro. Anyone do a direct compare of them or similar?


----------



## d3myz

georgelai57 said:


> I’m glad you posted the quote you were replying to


Haha, sorry, I was referring to the T1X Case Lid.


----------



## d3myz

hifi80sman said:


> If you do try the SoundPeats TE, I'd be interested to see what your impressions are.  I had them a while back and they sounded bad, really bad (hollow, 1k spike) and @d3myz and myself pretty much heard it the same (we don't necessarily have the same preferences, either).  It entirely possible they have since revised them.


----------



## d3myz

I think I know why my new APPs do a better job with ANC than my old ones _LINK_. Turns out the New ones are on the older firmware and my previous set did update, I was looking at the model number not the firmware, doh!


----------



## Spamateur

clerkpalmer said:


> Of course now that I’m traveling a bit, I’m eyeing some Bose 700s. Go big or go home right? Anyone have any opinions on NC over ears? The Sony is too bloated for me. Definitely want something a little more balanced.



I'm a little late in responding, but my wife travels probably 4-5 months out of the year and has the QC35II, and a buddy has the WH XM2 so I've heard both. I have to agree the Sony over-ear cans are too bassy for my taste but I think the ANC is better. For some reason when I put on the QC35II there's an immediate uncomfortable pressure that verges on being painful, but my wife has zero issue with this so YMMV. However, the Bose has a slightly warm but mostly neutral sound signature. I was surprised they were as good as they are in terms of SQ.


----------



## b8drf

My Mifo o7's arrived today - I can't comment (yet) on the avg battery life, but I have had at least 5 hours use without a charge to break them in and they are still going strong ...

The main reason for my reply however is to share my thoughts on their sound quality - Wow am I impressed ...  I mean *very* impressed ...

I am new to this forum but wanted to share my thoughts on the Mifo's - I am a bit of a TWS junkie and have bought / sold / returned approx 20 different brands in various price ranges over the past 18 months or so but the standout brands are ...
- Sennheiser Momentum (returned - 9/10 sound - plagued with connectivity issues and a below average battery life)
- Sony 1000XM3 (returned - 8/10 sound - couldn't get a good fit / seal, too big and uncomfortable for me - ANC was impressive though)
- RHA TrueConnect (sold - 8/10 sound - couldn't get a good fit / seal, average battery life)
- Pamu slide (sold - 7/10 sound - poor fit, charging case way too large)
- Soundcore Liberty 2 Pro (sold - 7/10 sound - too reliant on the app with its 22 sound profiles and I couldn't find one I liked, Hear ID is a gimmick imo - great fit and finish though!)
- Sabbat E12 Ultra (still own these - 7/10 sound - a little too "V" shaped with an over emphasised low end - I really like the low profile and fit / comfort though)
- Lypertek Tevi  (still own these - 9/10 sound - I love the near neutral sound signature of these - still slightly "V" shaped but there is so much detail and separation with decent bass - these were my favourites until today !!)

Back to the Mifo o7 - I probably need to spend more time with them, but having swapped them back-and-forth with the Tevi's today - I have to say I think I prefer the Mifo's - they are very similar (neutral) sounding but I think the Mifo's have a slightly softer (less harsh) treble.
They are also small and low profile and very comfortable - I was able to get a really good seal/fit.
The Mifo case is a work of art (but very heavy) but is let down by the weird hinge mechanism which isn't very precise - not a deal breaker but worth a mention.

Apologies for my rambling, but I hope my thoughts / notes were helpful.


----------



## hifi80sman

b8drf said:


> My Mifo o7's arrived today - I can't comment (yet) on the avg battery life, but I have had at least 5 hours use without a charge to break them in and they are still going strong ...
> 
> The main reason for my reply however is to share my thoughts on their sound quality - Wow am I impressed ...  I mean *very* impressed ...
> 
> ...


Thanks for the feedback.  I was curious about the sound signature, given it's a dual BA setup, and it sounds like it's on the neutral side and is not a good choice for bass fiends, but a good option for clarity/detail.


----------



## b8drf

hifi80sman said:


> Thanks for the feedback.  I was curious about the sound signature, given it's a dual BA setup, and it sounds like it's on the neutral side and is not a good choice for bass fiends, but a good option for clarity/detail.



Good point, the Mifo 07's that I purchased are the dual BA model (they also sell a single driver option) ...

Yes, these are on the neutral side, not a flat signature, but certainly not for bass heads - as a comparison, the Liberty 2 Pro's which are also a dual driver setup, are much more bass emphasised ...


----------



## chinmie (Jan 14, 2020)

brownpigeon said:


> Anyone tried the Dyplay ANC Shield?  Tempted to get a pair but I don't think they'll make it through Chinese customs before the New Year



I have their other product (BQC35). Try asking them ehich one is better in terms of sound and ANC. The BQC35 is quite good, and i suspect they are one of the same, but in different shell. If Dyplay can confirm those two are the same, or better yet, the Shield is better, then it's  worth the price.

Two of the reviews on the BQC35 in AE said that their unit has a slight hiss when music is not playing. My unit is safe and practically silent, but it's a problem to keep in mind if you decided to purchase it (also a mention to @jfvny and @RobinFood )



b8drf said:


> My Mifo o7's arrived today - I can't comment (yet) on the avg battery life, but I have had at least 5 hours use without a charge to break them in and they are still going strong ...
> 
> The main reason for my reply however is to share my thoughts on their sound quality - Wow am I impressed ...  I mean *very* impressed ...
> 
> ...



Some reviewers in youtube said their Mifo o7 clips/distorts when listening on loud volume..does your unit has similar problems?

Also, have you by any chance have tried the Galaxy buds too?


----------



## b8drf

chinmie said:


> I have their other product (BQC35). Try asking them ehich one is better in terms of sound and ANC. The BQC35 is quite good, and i suspect they are one of the same, but in different shell. If Dyplay can confirm those two are the same, or better yet, the Shield is better, then it's  worth the price.
> 
> Two of the reviews on the BQC35 in AE said that their unit has a slight hiss when music is not playing. My unit is safe and practically silent, but it's a problem to keep in mind if you decided to purchase it (also a mention to @jfvny and @RobinFood )
> 
> ...



I have listened to the Mifo's at the max volume that I can comfortably handle (approx 75%) and there is no distortion... so all good


----------



## Sam L

b8drf said:


> My Mifo o7's arrived today - I can't comment (yet) on the avg battery life, but I have had at least 5 hours use without a charge to break them in and they are still going strong ...
> 
> The main reason for my reply however is to share my thoughts on their sound quality - Wow am I impressed ...  I mean *very* impressed ...
> 
> ...


Thx for the feedback. I'm a big fan of Mifo - still have and listen to the 02 and 05 models.


----------



## jant71

de51red said:


> Saw it on aliexpress here
> 
> BGVP Q2 TWS Knowles Moving Iron HIFI Music Wireless Bluetooth 5.0 Headset Sports A Custom-ear Binaural Monitor MMCX Earphones
> https://s.click.aliexpress.com/e/EFeoVjVA
> ...



Ever get this? Seems some issue perhaps as it is gone now with no other sellers and just not currently available. Just gone.


Saw that the ADV M5 TWS was dropped $50 to $199. Does sound like the PHPC driver is a good one and it might be the king of SQ for all we know. Would have been nice for an update to control volume and such.


----------



## clerkpalmer

Does the MiFo 07 have ANC for music or is it just for calls?


----------



## d3myz

FYI Version 2.1.0 Firmware is now available for the Sony WF-1000 XM3's Supposed to improve call quality, i'm updating now, will report back.


----------



## caprimulgus

b8drf said:


> I am a bit of a TWS junkie and have bought / sold / returned approx 20 different brands.



Wow, nice, thanks for your thoughts!

Given you like a more neutral tuning, what would be your recommendation for a basshead like me?

The consensus here seems to be the L2P are the way to go for a basshead - does that concur with your experience of all of those TWS (which covers pretty much everything!)?


----------



## vaaccess

b8drf said:


> My Mifo...



Out of curiosity, did you consider or have any experience with the N6 Pro?


----------



## falang

So, after inital fit issues with the Anker L2Pro, I'm really starting to enjoy their sound.  However, that sound can only be enjoyed in a relatively quiet environment.  During rush hour on the subway, they are useless as they don't isolate well for me.  But on walks in quiet neighborhoods, they're fantastic.  

I guess I'll be on the lookout for something with anc or perhaps deeper insertion iems.  I've been eyeing the Jabra 75Ts - just wish they had anc or aptx as well.


----------



## Caipirina

For those APP owners who, like me, have been slightly living under a rock the last few weeks, there is apparently a somewhat upsetting booboo with a new firmware that Apple stealthily released (see this MacRumors article). I just checked and I am affected, but I can't really say that I have noticed my ANC getting worse (nor my SQ getting better)

What I DID notice though is that my APPs are becoming more unreliable! Things like switching from mac to phone are more often hit & miss now. Or one pod not properly charging, which sucks when just before a run I see that left side only has 3% after a full night of sleeping in the charging box.

There's no way to opt out of these firmware updates, thank you Apple very much. And now all one can do i wait and hope for the next update and pray it won't make things worse!


----------



## SilverEars (Jan 14, 2020)

Caipirina said:


> For those APP owners who, like me, have been slightly living under a rock the last few weeks, there is apparently a somewhat upsetting booboo with a new firmware that Apple stealthily released (see this MacRumors article). I just checked and I am affected, but I can't really say that I have noticed my ANC getting worse (nor my SQ getting better)
> 
> What I DID notice though is that my APPs are becoming more unreliable! Things like switching from mac to phone are more often hit & miss now. Or one pod not properly charging, which sucks when just before a run I see that left side only has 3% after a full night of sleeping in the charging box.
> 
> There's no way to opt out of these firmware updates, thank you Apple very much. And now all one can do i wait and hope for the next update and pray it won't make things worse!


Yeah, I really dislike how their firmware updating works.  I've read somewhere that it gets randomly updated?  I've read that some units would get updates, and others eventually get updated later.  That's seems such a strange way of doing updates.  Big issue is that the user has no control over it!

After hearing about Apple under-clocking their hardware silently, I'm not surprised.  This is the part I dislike about Apple.

I don't use iphone, but Android, so does that mean I get no updates?!  I've been noticing my APP not working as smoothly as time goes on.  When I first got it, it worked flawlessly, and then I get minor hiccups here and there, and gets more frequent as time goes on. My issues are related to the sensor and ANC kicking in.  Sometimes it doesn't kick in because the sensor placement.  I can't believe this is happening on a supposed 'seamless' Apple product?


----------



## Caipirina (Jan 14, 2020)

SilverEars said:


> Yeah, I really dislike how their firmware updating works.  I've read somewhere that it gets randomly updated?  I've read that some units would get updates, and others eventually get updated later.  That's seems such a strange way of doing updates.  Big issue is that the user has no control over it!
> 
> After hearing about Apple under-clocking their hardware silently, I'm not surprised.  This is the part I dislike about Apple.
> 
> I don't use iphone, but Android, so does that mean I get no updates?!  I've been noticing my APP not working as smoothly as time goes on.  When I first got it, it worked flawlessly, and then I get minor hiccups here and there, and gets more frequent as time goes on. My issues are related to the sensor and ANC kicking in.  Sometimes it doesn't kick in because the sensor placement.  I can't believe this is happening on a supposed 'seamless' Apple product?



That's a really interesting question how the updates work on Android .. no idea.

And yes, for iOS Apple just has the phone unasked download the update 'when available' (and probably when phone is on wifi) and then sneak it onto the buds when they are in the case (and also probably on wifi) ... so, only when all those stars align you get updated. Which, admittedly I like a bit better than some other TWS that says basically 'don't dare touch or move anything while FW upgrade in process or we brick your TWS and possibly set your house on fire' ...   but it would still be nice to have the option to say no.
Oh, and apple does not share rls notes, so no one knows what's changing, until all those mac websites do some testing and shed some light on what happened after the fact ...


----------



## Spamateur (Jan 14, 2020)

I've had the N6 in house for a few days and have yet to actually return the N6 Pro, so I've been swapping back and forth tonight.

I initially found the Pro on the brighter side and a little light in bass, but excelling in technicalities. I love the soaring airiness and impressive detail retrieval, but I wish they were a bit warmer than neutral.

I ordered a set of the regular N6 wanting a warmer version of the Pro, but I'm not loving them as much as expected. They're definitely warmer, but with both the stock silicone tips and some JVC Spiral Dots the treble is somewhat peaky and unrefined with a bit of sibilance that surprised me, and without any airiness. They're also quite thick in the bass and lower mids where you end up losing a lot of detail and definition as a result. I tried some Comply SmartCore Sport Pro foam tips and it cleaned up the top end but made the bass slightly bloated while muffling any sense of air.

However, I have to say the same Comply tips make a really pleasant difference with the Pro. They add some body to the low end and dial back the brightness a notch while not making the sound muffled and dry. I'd still like a degree more warmth but man is this a *great combination*. The detail retrieval and imaging is off the charts, probably the best I've heard in a TW model. The sound is a bit on the thin side but the glare is mostly gone and you get this wonderfully clear and cohesive sound free of any frequency artifacts. I might try to experiment with the other Comply tips I have lying around to see if there are any other differences I can coax out of these Pros.


----------



## WesennTony

FYI Mifo O7 on sale at amazon https://www.amazon.com/mifo-O7-Canc...uPWNsaWNrUmVkaXJlY3QmZG9Ob3RMb2dDbGljaz10cnVl

 at $79.99. Use code 11mifoo7 to take extra 11% off. Don't know why I need them, but couldn't resist and placed an order.


----------



## clerkpalmer

WesennTony said:


> FYI Mifo O7 on sale at amazon https://www.amazon.com/mifo-O7-Cancelling-Headphones-Waterproof/dp/B07ZSFN5XL/ref=sr_1_1_sspa?crid=3KO569YOQ564F&keywords=mifo+o7&qid=1579061320&s=electronics&sprefix=mifo+o,electronics,156&sr=1-1-spons&psc=1&spLa=ZW5jcnlwdGVkUXVhbGlmaWVyPUEzTlVESlJEM1ZNMk5OJmVuY3J5cHRlZElkPUEwNzkyNTUxQlM1SEcxN1pLT0JZJmVuY3J5cHRlZEFkSWQ9QTAyMzU4NTI0VUdPVElENEJJV0kmd2lkZ2V0TmFtZT1zcF9hdGYmYWN0aW9uPWNsaWNrUmVkaXJlY3QmZG9Ob3RMb2dDbGljaz10cnVl
> 
> at $79.99. Use code 11mifoo7 to take extra 11% off. Don't know why I need them, but couldn't resist and placed an order.


Looks like a mistake. I bought them and got them and then canceled because I missed the code and the price is gone. Nice grab for 80.


----------



## vaaccess

WesennTony said:


> FYI Mifo.



I don’t know about that. It says the seller is Mifo Direct, but then when you review further is says Morul?  Doesn’t seem right...


----------



## bronco1015

The spunkybeats came in today, they are pretty fantastic. $25 after tax they're totally worth it.
next twe i'm gonna look at though is the bose.
i started having to use public transit to and from work again, and i would really appreciate ANC in a tw. Sonys didn't fit and the anc on APP is pretty good really, but not worth the money when the bose will likely sound better. Maybe they won't, but heres hoping.


----------



## RobinFood

chinmie said:


> i did a little comparison between both of them a few pages back
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/goi...e-we-there-yet.861024/page-1225#post-15408072
> 
> ...



Ah, sounds like I should wait, but I really am looking at trying anc on a true wireless set.

With the combination of low passive isolation and anc would you put their overall noise isolation above a good passive isolating set, or not quite?


----------



## voicemaster

clerkpalmer said:


> Looks like a mistake. I bought them and got them and then canceled because I missed the code and the price is gone. Nice grab for 80.


Got them for $77


----------



## d3myz

jant71 said:


> Ever get this? Seems some issue perhaps as it is gone now with no other sellers and just not currently available. Just gone.
> 
> 
> Saw that the ADV M5 TWS was dropped $50 to $199. Does sound like the PHPC driver is a good one and it might be the king of SQ for all we know. Would have been nice for an update to control volume and such.


I can strongly vouche, that's it's not. I was not impressed by them at all. At $130 earlybird they were not worth it. I'd pay maybe $60 for them.


----------



## d3myz

Caipirina said:


> For those APP owners who, like me, have been slightly living under a rock the last few weeks, there is apparently a somewhat upsetting booboo with a new firmware that Apple stealthily released (see this MacRumors article). I just checked and I am affected, but I can't really say that I have noticed my ANC getting worse (nor my SQ getting better)
> 
> What I DID notice though is that my APPs are becoming more unreliable! Things like switching from mac to phone are more often hit & miss now. Or one pod not properly charging, which sucks when just before a run I see that left side only has 3% after a full night of sleeping in the charging box.
> 
> There's no way to opt out of these firmware updates, thank you Apple very much. And now all one can do i wait and hope for the next update and pray it won't make things worse!


I posted about this earlier, they pulled the latest firmware. I had to replace my first set. My new pair are much better.


----------



## Caipirina

d3myz said:


> I posted about this earlier, they pulled the latest firmware. I had to replace my first set. My new pair are much better.



Yeah, I think I saw your post. But it was not obviously clear that this FW potentially affects every owner, so I thought as a PSA i bring that up again ... i recall reading in the macrumors comments that getting a new / different set does not seem to be a fix for all (depends on which FW versions are on there) ... I am stuck with the 'dreaded' 2C54 until next update ... no proper Apple store on this island, and I doubt the 'authorized resellers' here have gotten their hands on APPs yet, let alone would they wish to exchange one for me  

Clones! I have seen clones with the Apple logo here already ... Majestic City has you covered for a bit more than 100$ .. while they are 40$ -ish by now on AE


----------



## clerkpalmer

voicemaster said:


> Got them for $77


You lucked out. Mad at myself for canceling to use the code. Amazon wouldn’t give me the price. Let us know how you like em.


----------



## clerkpalmer

Caipirina said:


> Yeah, I think I saw your post. But it was not obviously clear that this FW potentially affects every owner, so I thought as a PSA i bring that up again ... i recall reading in the macrumors comments that getting a new / different set does not seem to be a fix for all (depends on which FW versions are on there) ... I am stuck with the 'dreaded' 2C54 until next update ... no proper Apple store on this island, and I doubt the 'authorized resellers' here have gotten their hands on APPs yet, let alone would they wish to exchange one for me
> 
> Clones! I have seen clones with the Apple logo here already ... Majestic City has you covered for a bit more than 100$ .. while they are 40$ -ish by now on AE


I read about this about a week ago. At least with Apple, they usually fix stuff pretty quickly. I have also seen some complaints that the silicone rips degrade quickly and harm isolation. At least they are cheap to replace.


----------



## d3myz

Spamateur said:


> I've had the N6 in house for a few days and have yet to actually return the N6 Pro, so I've been swapping back and forth tonight.
> 
> I initially found the Pro on the brighter side and a little light in bass, but excelling in technicalities. I love the soaring airiness and impressive detail retrieval, but I wish they were a bit warmer than neutral.
> 
> ...


If you haven't already, I'd recommend burning the N6 in for 8-16 hours. That was also my initial complaint, the bass sounded a bit muddled. I've noticed that mid-bass bloat has decreased quite a bit the more I've used them.


----------



## d3myz

Caipirina said:


> Yeah, I think I saw your post. But it was not obviously clear that this FW potentially affects every owner, so I thought as a PSA i bring that up again ... i recall reading in the macrumors comments that getting a new / different set does not seem to be a fix for all (depends on which FW versions are on there) ... I am stuck with the 'dreaded' 2C54 until next update ... no proper Apple store on this island, and I doubt the 'authorized resellers' here have gotten their hands on APPs yet, let alone would they wish to exchange one for me
> 
> Clones! I have seen clones with the Apple logo here already ... Majestic City has you covered for a bit more than 100$ .. while they are 40$ -ish by now on AE


Sorry to hear that. 2C54 blows. I've also had a lot of interference and delays when using my watch with my airpods/iphone. The really need do some work to dial them in so it doesn't take me several click on the APPs to restart my music or my book. At least when connected to my APPs, my text dictation from the text app in the phone now works again.


----------



## wksoh (Jan 15, 2020)

Just received the T1X and took out some of my earbuds again.

The T1X has a lot of Positives: usb C, smaller & classy case, great isolation, touch controls.

Although the treble is clearer, I find the T1X voicing recessed, slightly veiled or distant. A deeper V sonic shape if I may. It lost the throaty voice of Joe Cocker ("you are so beautiful guitar version" ). The overall vol is also ~20% lower than mpow M5. As such, the sonic quality loses impact and power which is often not mentioned in earbuds but only in amplifier reviews. In summary, the weak voicing is what left it wanting.

I find Spunky beats voicing is at the other end of spectrum being a bit too forward and shouty - OK at lower vol, shrill at loud vol.
That said I even prefer the voicing of SSK.
To my ears, Mpow M5 and SSK are still my personal star performers. The Bose 700 in the center is feeling shy.
I agree folks may have different ears.


----------



## BigZ12

https://www.recordere.dk/2020/01/be...d-hoejere-komfort-og-laengere-batterilevetid/
BT5.1, Aptx LL, AAC, 7 hours battery, transparency mode, 17% smaller buds than ver.2.0, 4 mics etc.
Think I'm buying these.


----------



## C_Lindbergh

BigZ12 said:


> https://www.recordere.dk/2020/01/be...d-hoejere-komfort-og-laengere-batterilevetid/
> BT5.1, Aptx LL, AAC, 7 hours battery, transparency mode, 17% smaller buds than ver.2.0, 4 mics etc.
> Think I'm buying these.




Wow, finally a convincing product that's set to launch soon. 35 hours total battery life along with wireless charging... Convinent AF.

Can't find anything about aptx LL tho, just regular. 

Also interesting with BT 5.1 and the control scheme for the previous version looks solid like the Jabras.

Early 2020 will be between this or the new Galaxy buds.

The new Klipsch and leaks of the new Sennheiser Mtw also looks interesting, but they won't launch until later this year.


----------



## BigZ12

C_Lindbergh said:


> Wow, finally a convincing product that's set to launch soon. 35 hours total battery life along with wireless charging... Convinent AF.
> 
> Can't find anything about aptx LL tho, just regular.
> 
> ...


Aptx LL was listed in an article in the Norwegian magazine "Lyd og Bilde" 
https://www.lydogbilde.no/nyheter/hodetelefoner/bos-tredje-forsok-pa-true-wireless
"We missed aptX in the predecessor.... ... because now the aptX codecs are present. Not only does it make better sound on Android devices, but also delays when using aptX LL (Low Latency)."


----------



## C_Lindbergh

BigZ12 said:


> Aptx LL was listed in an article in the Norwegian magazine "Lyd og Bilde"
> https://www.lydogbilde.no/nyheter/hodetelefoner/bos-tredje-forsok-pa-true-wireless
> "We missed aptX in the predecessor.... ... because now the aptX codecs are present. Not only does it make better sound on Android devices, but also delays when using aptX LL (Low Latency)."



I think they got it wrong, I'm Swedish but seems like they say that there are 3 codecs. I.e aac, sbc and aptx. Unless they go for just LL and not the ordinary aptx (which would be weird). 

I guess we'll have to wait for the official spec sheet


----------



## Oscar-HiFi

wksoh said:


> Just received the T1X and took out some of my earbuds again.
> 
> The T1X has a lot of Positives: usb C, smaller & classy case, great isolation, touch controls.
> 
> ...



If you can get hold of the SoundMAGIC TWS50 I would be interested to know how they do against the SSK


----------



## Quicky32

I provided Anker with proof of purchase and delivery but they don’t show me in their system. I purchased direct and they’re saying I didn’t despite showing them receipts.


----------



## Caipirina

I feel a very weird itch wanting to try one of those ANC offers on AE, but that’s silly, right? No way they are getting even close to the APP?


----------



## chinmie

RobinFood said:


> Ah, sounds like I should wait, but I really am looking at trying anc on a true wireless set.
> 
> With the combination of low passive isolation and anc would you put their overall noise isolation above a good passive isolating set, or not quite?



with the ANC on, when talking about high frequency cancelation, it's about on par with my DM6, or the QCY T1C, so I'd say it's a good average. certainly not Etymotic level of blocking, but not bad at all. 

the difference is low freq cancelation. the thing is, no matter how good passive blocking works, low freq vibration would still be heard, only ANC can eliminate low freq noise.

and usually we would hear our own heart beat with standard passive blocking IEMs. the BQC35 has a shallow insertion like the Nillkin, so no heart beat sound, but still able to achieve good cancelation.

if you want to wait, it would be safer, because i think ANC would be the next battleground/race between the TWSs, so there would be lots of new option available in the coming wave of products.


----------



## webvan (Jan 15, 2020)

So the T1X from Geekbuying Italy are in, that was really fast as I ordered them less than 48 hours ago!

I swapped the right tip for the large size and it looks good for now. As I was hoping the wings (still on the medium) do the job and unlike virtually all the non-winged IEMs I've used they stay put and the seal has not broken - > Priceless! Yet another confirmation that I will never buy other IEMs that don't have a wing option  Isolation is good, not great but probably the best you can get without ANC and deep insertion (which I hate).

They do feal a bit "cheap" with their driver flex when inserting, hadn't heard that for a very long time...I hope it won't get worse with time. I also has some "static" (not straight white noise as it "flutters") in the right ear. Not noticeable when listening to music fortunately.

SQ is good as has been discussed here, not as immersive as the L2Ps unfortunately, might have missed comments about this? More listening needed.

Where has the app gone? Nothing on the play store and no mention on their site. Thanks to the bizarre name (makes for a nice logo I suppose) it's impossible to do a fruitful Google search too. Anyone got a link? Thanks!


----------



## WesennTony

clerkpalmer said:


> You lucked out. Mad at myself for canceling to use the code. Amazon wouldn’t give me the price. Let us know how you like em.


I canceled my order as well, but with different reason. I'm comparing Aviot te-bd21f with Nuarl N6 pro, and prefer Aviot in every way, especially fit and comfort. The bass is more textured and tight to my liking, and the highs are sparkly yet not harsh at all. The mids are a bit more forward than N6 pro, making N6p a deeper sound stage, but difference is small. Both of them have top SQ in TWS, rivaling against wired IEM in the same price range, with Aviot a little bit ahead. I don't believe 2BA of mifo O7 can beat 2BA+1DD of Aviot, so I don't see any use case for them, despite the good deal.  From now on I may wait for Aptx-HD or LDAC to show up in TWS.


----------



## BigZ12

BigZ12 said:


> https://www.recordere.dk/2020/01/be...d-hoejere-komfort-og-laengere-batterilevetid/
> BT5.1, Aptx LL, AAC, 7 hours battery, transparency mode, 17% smaller buds than ver.2.0, 4 mics etc.
> Think I'm buying these.


The journalist of the article in "Lyd og Bilde" answered my question about AptX LL, and sadly he was wrong. No "Low latency", just standard AptX.


----------



## d3myz

Anyone else with the N6 noticed serious driver flex? I just popped them in again today and they have some serious movement. I mostly notice it when i'm putting them in or taking them out, but sometimes when I chew gum. The N6 pro doesn't to have this issue. Oddly enough I went to compare them vs. my T1x's, but my T1x's don't have any flex. Granted I got them a while ago.


----------



## Spamateur

WesennTony said:


> I canceled my order as well, but with different reason. I'm comparing Aviot te-bd21f with Nuarl N6 pro, and prefer Aviot in every way, especially fit and comfort. The bass is more textured and tight to my liking, and the highs are sparkly yet not harsh at all. The mids are a bit more forward than N6 pro, making N6p a deeper sound stage, but difference is small. Both of them have top SQ in TWS, rivaling against wired IEM in the same price range, with Aviot a little bit ahead. I don't believe 2BA of mifo O7 can beat 2BA+1DD of Aviot, so I don't see any use case for them, despite the good deal.  From now on I may wait for Aptx-HD or LDAC to show up in TWS.



How do the sound signatures compare between the N6 Pro and the bd21f? Is the Aviot warmer than the Nuarl?


----------



## Spamateur

d3myz said:


> Anyone else with the N6 noticed serious driver flex? I just popped them in again today and they have some serious movement. I mostly notice it when i'm putting them in or taking them out, but sometimes when I chew gum. The N6 pro doesn't to have this issue. Oddly enough I went to compare them vs. my T1x's, but my T1x's don't have any flex. Granted I got them a while ago.



I noticed last night that the regular N6 has driver flex in the right earpiece when inserting, but I haven't had issues when moving my jaw around. I also have found the N6 Pro doesn't have any driver flex.


----------



## Toom

Anyone with the Senn Momentum TWs using the app EQ?  If so, care to share what yours looks like?  

I'm finding a nudge to the right with the treble, to lower the bass a little, helps a heap.


----------



## WesennTony

Spamateur said:


> I noticed last night that the regular N6 has driver flex in the right earpiece when inserting, but I haven't had issues when moving my jaw around. I also have found the N6 Pro doesn't have any driver flex.


They have almost the same sound sig. They have the same warmth in mids, while Aviot have cleaner, more detailed bass and more sparkly highs, so overall Aviot is perceived as less warm. What I'm impressed about Aviot, from their te-d01b to te-bd21f, is their careful tuning that avoid the harshness. As a long time fan of Nuarl, I'll say I'm more into Aviot now. Those Japanese small companies are really experts in sounds.


----------



## Spamateur

WesennTony said:


> They have almost the same sound sig. They have the same warmth in mids, while Aviot have cleaner, more detailed bass and more sparkly highs, so overall Aviot is perceived as less warm. What I'm impressed about Aviot, from their te-d01b to te-bd21f, is their careful tuning that avoid the harshness. As a long time fan of Nuarl, I'll say I'm more into Aviot now. Those Japanese small companies are really experts in sounds.



Thanks for the detailed impressions. Man, I'd love to try the Aviot but I don't love the price that Amazon is charging and the fact that I'm worried about returns since they're shipping from Japan. Hopefully Aviot will sell them in the US so we can get a version with English vocal prompts.


----------



## webvan

webvan said:


> So the T1X from Geekbuying Italy are in, that was really fast as I ordered them less than 48 hours ago!
> 
> I swapped the right tip for the large size and it looks good for now. As I was hoping the wings (still on the medium) do the job and unlike virtually all the non-winged IEMs I've used they stay put and the seal has not broken - > Priceless! Yet another confirmation that I will never buy other IEMs that don't have a wing option  Isolation is good, not great but probably the best you can get without ANC and deep insertion (which I hate).
> 
> ...



Still can't track down the Android app but I found the iOS version on my iPad and played with it. I activated Low Latency in spite of the compatibility warnings and haven't noticed any problems since. I was a bit disappointed to find that the EQ is like on the L2P pre-update, i.e. no adjustment of frequencies, just bass/normal/treble and some additional presets that didn't sound very interesting. I'd like a way to reduce treble a bit as I find it a tad harsh, maybe the "burn in" offered by the app will help.

I doubt it will help with the "fluttering static" in the right ear as it sounds like a shielding issue, anyone has that with theirs ?


----------



## Luchyres

WesennTony said:


> They have almost the same sound sig. They have the same warmth in mids, while Aviot have cleaner, more detailed bass and more sparkly highs, so overall Aviot is perceived as less warm. What I'm impressed about Aviot, from their te-d01b to te-bd21f, is their careful tuning that avoid the harshness. As a long time fan of Nuarl, I'll say I'm more into Aviot now. Those Japanese small companies are really experts in sounds.



As one of the original NT01AX fans, I'm in a special hell right now of hearing you all try them - but since I'm now living on an island - Amazon won't ship them to me. I've been trying to figure out whether to get the N6 or N6 Pro drop-shipped, but now these Aviot's sound pretty interesting. I don't love the look of the case, but it may appear to be larger in pictures than in real life. 

May I know where you bought your Aviot's?


----------



## Luchyres

WesennTony said:


> They have almost the same sound sig. They have the same warmth in mids, while Aviot have cleaner, more detailed bass and more sparkly highs, so overall Aviot is perceived as less warm. What I'm impressed about Aviot, from their te-d01b to te-bd21f, is their careful tuning that avoid the harshness. As a long time fan of Nuarl, I'll say I'm more into Aviot now. Those Japanese small companies are really experts in sounds.



Two other questions: They are touch controls? How do you find their sensitivity?

Also, how do you feel they are handling your phone call needs (I know, not about music SQ, but super important to me and something the Nuarl's have nailed). Thank you!


----------



## vaaccess

Spamateur said:


> Hopefully Aviot will sell them in the US so we can get a version with English vocal prompts.


Wait...what?  I suppose the silver lining would be that I’d learn some Japanese?? 



Luchyres said:


> Also, how do you feel they are handling your phone call needs (I know, not about music SQ, but super important to me and something the Nuarl's have nailed). Thank you!



I agree with you on this. SQ is the top priority, but convenience features are also very important.


----------



## WesennTony

Luchyres said:


> As one of the original NT01AX fans, I'm in a special hell right now of hearing you all try them - but since I'm now living on an island - Amazon won't ship them to me. I've been trying to figure out whether to get the N6 or N6 Pro drop-shipped, but now these Aviot's sound pretty interesting. I don't love the look of the case, but it may appear to be larger in pictures than in real life.
> 
> May I know where you bought your Aviot's?


I bought from a 3rd party tec_Japan at Amazon. They shipped them from Japan, but still very fast, delivered after 2 days using DHL. The only grip about Aviot is the noticeable hiss before burning in, but after a while the hiss reduces quite a lot and now is on par with that from N6 pro. If you get a defect one, though, the return can be an issue. I contacted them about the hiss. They made some suggestions that I already did, like re-set, re-pair, trying different devices, etc. Then I asked 20% discount when hiss became less and I still loved the overall package. Pushed them after couple of weeks, I ended up getting 10% back. I don't really blame them for that since that's not their fault, and overall their support was good. But if I really got a defect one, and seems Aviot has many complaints in Japan, I would have trouble returning them and getting full refund.


----------



## WesennTony

Luchyres said:


> Two other questions: They are touch controls? How do you find their sensitivity?
> 
> Also, how do you feel they are handling your phone call needs (I know, not about music SQ, but super important to me and something the Nuarl's have nailed). Thank you!


No, they're button controlled, which are awkward and Nuarl works better.
I tried to make some calls a couple of times in my office and heard no complaints, though admitted I do not use them for calls with APP on my desk


----------



## TK33 (Jan 15, 2020)

Toom said:


> Anyone with the Senn Momentum TWs using the app EQ?  If so, care to share what yours looks like?
> 
> I'm finding a nudge to the right with the treble, to lower the bass a little, helps a heap.



Here is where I currently have mine set. Slightly to the right and down.


----------



## Toom

TK33 said:


> Here is where I currently have mine set. Slightly to the right and down.



Is there meant to be a pic?


----------



## TK33

Toom said:


> Is there meant to be a pic?



Yes. Edited the post. Sorry about that.


----------



## hifi80sman

clerkpalmer said:


> I read about this about a week ago. At least with Apple, they usually fix stuff pretty quickly. I have also seen some complaints that the silicone rips degrade quickly and harm isolation. At least they are cheap to replace.


Yep, the tips don't seem to last very long.  The left side on mine frequently detaches now.


----------



## Toom

TK33 said:


> Here is where I currently have mine set. Slightly to the right and down.



Sounds really nice! Kinda where I was, but yours is slightly better. Cheers.


----------



## Spamateur

WesennTony said:


> No, they're button controlled, which are awkward and Nuarl works better.
> I tried to make some calls a couple of times in my office and heard no complaints, though admitted I do not use them for calls with APP on my desk



I do have to say the N6 and N6 Pro buttons have been excellent. It makes you wonder why other companies haven't hopped on the train of having multiple buttons on each side that mirror each other. I love being able to change the volume, etc. with either hand.


----------



## WesennTony

Spamateur said:


> I do have to say the N6 and N6 Pro buttons have been excellent. It makes you wonder why other companies haven't hopped on the train of having multiple buttons on each side that mirror each other. I love being able to change the volume, etc. with either hand.


I agree. But the size of Aviot, on the button surface, is even smaller than Mavin air-X. I suspect how they can manage the N6 pro buttons. That'll be extremely tiny and hard for my fingers to reach.


----------



## crimscrem

My apologies in advance if this is not the right forum or thread for this post. I have the Cambridge Melomania 1s. There's a ton that I like about them, but I'm thrown off about the battery life. I seem to be getting about 6-7 hours of battery life out of them, but the battery life indicators seem really, really off.

I'm judging the earbud percentage life based on what my phone is telling me. I'll run it 6 hours or so until it gets to 50%-60%. But at that point, it'll drop to dead within 1 hour to 75 minutes. I've reached out to Cambridge Audio, but after a week, I haven't heard back. I reached back out today, so hopefully I'll hear back from them. Anyone else experiencing this?


----------



## wes1099

Has anyone here tried the TFZ X3? I have the X1E and its alright but I think I would have preferred the BA drivers instead. Thought maybe I would try the X3 because its on massdrop right now, but I can't find much info about it.


----------



## CocaCola15

crimscrem said:


> My apologies in advance if this is not the right forum or thread for this post. I have the Cambridge Melomania 1s. There's a ton that I like about them, but I'm thrown off about the battery life. I seem to be getting about 6-7 hours of battery life out of them, but the battery life indicators seem really, really off.
> 
> I'm judging the earbud percentage life based on what my phone is telling me. I'll run it 6 hours or so until it gets to 50%-60%. But at that point, it'll drop to dead within 1 hour to 75 minutes. I've reached out to Cambridge Audio, but after a week, I haven't heard back. I reached back out today, so hopefully I'll hear back from them. Anyone else experiencing this?


I have them. How do you know they are at a certain percentage? There is no app with them, right? Not sure how to tell where they are battery-wise. Of course, I hardly ever go past 2-3 hours max, and once on a flight. I love the sound, more than most here it seems. And with the medium foam tips, they are a fantastic fit. I got lucky I think, because they don't bother me, the fit that is. And their sound is to me, great. Anyway, their guy in tech support, Nicolas, has been very responsive to me.


----------



## Sam L

d3myz said:


> FYI Version 2.1.0 Firmware is now available for the Sony WF-1000 XM3's Supposed to improve call quality, i'm updating now, will report back.


Just picked up the 1000xm3's and updated to the new firmware before I could compare the two versions. I'm curious if there were improvements to anything? Calls are decent, not bad, but still far from APP quality. I don't think anything is even close to the APP in regards to call quality.


----------



## Quicky32

Anker will not refund my money because I sent my LP2 to their corporate office and not where they handle returns and warranty items. I guess I’m out $93...


----------



## d3myz

Sam L said:


> Just picked up the 1000xm3's and updated to the new firmware before I could compare the two versions. I'm curious if there were improvements to anything? Calls are decent, not bad, but still far from APP quality. I don't think anything is even close to the APP in regards to call quality.


The only thing i've noticed is the ability to change from ambient to noise canceling while on a call in the app, but maybe you could do that before. Everything else seems the same. They work pretty well, except when I use Siri to adjust the volume, The volume defaults to around 50%. Super annoying.


----------



## crimscrem

CocaCola15 said:


> I have them. How do you know they are at a certain percentage? There is no app with them, right? Not sure how to tell where they are battery-wise. Of course, I hardly ever go past 2-3 hours max, and once on a flight. I love the sound, more than most here it seems. And with the medium foam tips, they are a fantastic fit. I got lucky I think, because they don't bother me, the fit that is. And their sound is to me, great. Anyway, their guy in tech support, Nicolas, has been very responsive to me.



I'm going off of what my phone tells me the connected device battery percentage is. It's been accurate with other Bluetooth devices I have like my P7 wireless headphones. 

I like the sound a lot for the money. The fit for me is good enough (using the foam tips included). 

How do you get ahold of Nicolas? I put in a ticket through their website.


----------



## CocaCola15

crimscrem said:


> I'm going off of what my phone tells me the connected device battery percentage is. It's been accurate with other Bluetooth devices I have like my P7 wireless headphones.
> 
> I like the sound a lot for the money. The fit for me is good enough (using the foam tips included).
> 
> How do you get ahold of Nicolas? I put in a ticket through their website.


Niclolas is the name of the only CA support person in the USA who has responded to some of my emails. I think it's not CA, but a licensed seller for CA in the US.

I had an issue with connectivity with my first set, I had to return and rebuy. Since then, no issues. Also, I love the foam tips, so I had a friend in the UK buy a 10 pack (5 pair) of the mediums. It was like $17shipped. For some reason, CA does not sell foam tips in the USA. They also sent me a few pair gratis, both the ones that came with the M1s and a larger pair they have since released, again in the UK only. Anyway, maybe you will hear from Nicolas. It takes a few days.


----------



## DigDub

After some tinkering of the eq on my Samsung s10e phone, I quite like the sound of the Aviot BD21f. The metallic highs are reduced significantly now and the mid bass is reduced which makes the mids and highs more natural.


----------



## crimscrem

CocaCola15 said:


> Niclolas is the name of the only CA support person in the USA who has responded to some of my emails. I think it's not CA, but a licensed seller for CA in the US.
> 
> I had an issue with connectivity with my first set, I had to return and rebuy. Since then, no issues. Also, I love the foam tips, so I had a friend in the UK buy a 10 pack (5 pair) of the mediums. It was like $17shipped. For some reason, CA does not sell foam tips in the USA. They also sent me a few pair gratis, both the ones that came with the M1s and a larger pair they have since released, again in the UK only. Anyway, maybe you will hear from Nicolas. It takes a few days.


Hopefully I'll get a response. I have connectivity issues from time to time, but it's largely been fine.


----------



## assassin10000

Got those ikko foam tips in. They do fit shallower like most TWS tips. As long as the diameter also fits there should be few issues.

On Tronsmart Spunky Beat. Left is original tip, right is small T400.
 

 

Next to medium and small T400 tips.


----------



## CocaCola15

crimscrem said:


> Hopefully I'll get a response. I have connectivity issues from time to time, but it's largely been fine.


Me too, but very infrequent. I really like the sound, sturdiness of the design. And I favor the click button vs the touch pad functionality. Not the only pair I own (have the L2P and an old pair of Tranya T1s too), but between the two, all good. Waiting for 2020 to see what new stuff comes along that may be worth it. May even buy a pair of Apple Airpod Pros, via Amazon Warehouse deals. But probably not.


----------



## DigDub

Creative aurvana trio wireless. Not sure if it will be true wireless.

https://fccid.io/2AJIV-EF0860


----------



## jant71 (Jan 15, 2020)

DigDub said:


> Creative aurvana trio wireless. Not sure if it will be true wireless.
> 
> https://fccid.io/2AJIV-EF0860








Air and Gold TWS successors are ideas at this point. Pretty sure the "better" one will have the hopefully improved enough Super X-Fi gen 2 as well.


----------



## bronco1015

just got an invite to review Tranya's upcoming B530 Pro. Apparently will have BT5, 80 hours playtime including charges in case, guessing that either means they expect 8 or 10 hours from the iems. also says APTX compatible with CVC8.0. Wonder if they're using Qualcom's QC3020 that would make sense from a battery life perspective and CVC8.0.
They will charge via USB-C and retail for $69.99


----------



## turbobb

Quicky32 said:


> Anker will not refund my money because I sent my LP2 to their corporate office and not where they handle returns and warranty items. I guess I’m out $93...



Do you have a shipping receipt or any kind of tracking? Also, try contacting corporate to see they received it and can either forward it on or ship it back to you.


----------



## clerkpalmer

bronco1015 said:


> just got an invite to review Tranya's upcoming B530 Pro. Apparently will have BT5, 80 hours playtime including charges in case, guessing that either means they expect 8 or 10 hours from the iems. also says APTX compatible with CVC8.0. Wonder if they're using Qualcom's QC3020 that would make sense from a battery life perspective and CVC8.0.
> They will charge via USB-C and retail for $69.99


Me too.


----------



## Mouseman

clerkpalmer said:


> Me too.


Me three.


----------



## wksoh (Jan 16, 2020)

Top left: Nakamichi TW211 - owner loan to me. More expensive feeling box but sound is  identical to mpow M5 (Naka is 2.5x more expensive) . Bottom left - the once sold for $1000 Shure SE846 - the owner kindly loan it to me as reference. And SSK..


----------



## d3myz (Jan 16, 2020)

bronco1015 said:


> just got an invite to review Tranya's upcoming B530 Pro. Apparently will have BT5, 80 hours playtime including charges in case, guessing that either means they expect 8 or 10 hours from the iems. also says APTX compatible with CVC8.0. Wonder if they're using Qualcom's QC3020 that would make sense from a battery life perspective and CVC8.0.
> They will charge via USB-C and retail for $69.99


Sweet! I just got my invite too! I ordered them on amazon.


----------



## webvan

assassin10000 said:


> Got those ikko foam tips in. They do fit shallower like most TWS tips. As long as the diameter also fits there should be few issues.
> 
> On Tronsmart Spunky Beat. Left is original tip, right is small T400.
> 
> ...



Interesting, this is what I've been looking for as Jabra used similar looking ones for the Jabra Elite Sport and they worked well for me. Hard and shallow foam !

So I did the "burn-in" on the T1X and can't here much of a difference. The "fluttering static" (sounds like a shielding problem) that's even more annoying than "white noise" is still there in the right ear of course. I guess I'll be in touch with Geekbuying to send them back as I must have gotten a bum model since no one else seems to have noticed this.


----------



## webvan

crimscrem said:


> My apologies in advance if this is not the right forum or thread for this post. I have the Cambridge Melomania 1s. There's a ton that I like about them, but I'm thrown off about the battery life. I seem to be getting about 6-7 hours of battery life out of them, but the battery life indicators seem really, really off.
> 
> I'm judging the earbud percentage life based on what my phone is telling me. I'll run it 6 hours or so until it gets to 50%-60%. But at that point, it'll drop to dead within 1 hour to 75 minutes. I've reached out to Cambridge Audio, but after a week, I haven't heard back. I reached back out today, so hopefully I'll hear back from them. Anyone else experiencing this?



I didn't keep them as they were a terrible fit but in reading reviews on Amazon and elsewhere I remember many people complaining that they were getting nowhere near the advertized 9 hours but closer to 6 hours so yours are probably not defective...so I wouldn't hold my breath for a reply from CA, at least a useful one !


----------



## Bartig (Jan 16, 2020)

Bhelpoori said:


> I got the Mpow M5s before I got the APP and for me it sounds better than the Anbes 359 (original) or Syllable S101 and I agree with @Bartig that it has good sound, even if my musical tastes don't hit it's sweet spot.
> 
> However, and this is for me what separates on-ears from TWS for me, I find the case to be the worst of all the TWS I've had, and it is so bad that I've not used it much in spite of it having the best sound. I wouldn't even mention any of the cases for my on-ears but for a TWS they are incredibly important for me.
> 
> ...


I agree that the case of the Mpow M5 is way too big, but for me, one of the biggest TWS struggles of getting the earpieces out of the case, is with the original AirPods or AirPods Pro - that annoying fiddling with the top side of the earpieces!

By the way - I published my Soundcore Liberty 2 Pro review. I try to keep my reviews limited to the 100 dollars mark, but I couldn't pass this one.


----------



## jfvny (Jan 16, 2020)

So I've had the Shanling MTW100 v2 for a few days now, and while I agree with Bartig's review completely (thanks for the great review and informative site btw!), just thought I'd add a few notes here for anyone who's searching.

The passive noise isolation is really good for me. Which is great, but leads to more 'thumping' while walking. Also, as a result ambient mode is pretty much a must while jogging. Switching to ambient mode also lowers the music volume; I have to increase it by 3-4 notches after to get a similar music volume, so if you're already listening near max volume, this might be an issue. For the V2, ambient mode is activated by 4 taps, instead of holding for 3s.

I'm really liking this pair, and beats my previous tws in every regard, though since the latter is a year old Havit G1 (which has the outer rubber falling off, so definitely not a long-lasting pair), that's pretty much to be expected.


----------



## Caipirina

Bartig said:


> ... one of the biggest TWS struggles of getting the earpieces out of the case, is with the [...] AirPods Pro - that annoying fiddling with the top side of the earpieces!



Once you know how, it is really easy ... this 'trick' is often buried in 10min+ videos on youtube, but this one is short and I already set a marker at 1:27 for you


----------



## Odioer (Jan 16, 2020)

Following the recommendation and reviews made on @Bartig site and by fellow gentlemen here, I am currently sitting on a setup of QCY QS2 and SSK BT03.







I really like the looks, non tiring sound and exceptional comfort the QCY offers for longer listening sessions. Seriously impressed with the balanced signature, definitive instrument separation - almost as if sounds come in from 360°.

While for sports use I prefer the SSK for thier noise isolation and natural transparency(yeah sounds contradictory -  but is true), absolutely no thump, tight drop proof seal and enhanced bass. But do I hate the blinking lights, seriously why waste battery on blinking alien lights when music is playing thru them

Both earphones have shown maturing sound with more usage, either it the driver or my mind - something is adapting and makes the sound more inclusive and smooth.


----------



## C_Lindbergh (Jan 16, 2020)

B&O added the third gen E8 to their product page:

https://www.bang-olufsen.com/en/earphones/beoplay-e8-3rd-gen?variant=beoplay-e8-3-black

They seem really good, but the pricing is 100 EUR too much, there's no way these will sell when they cost more than the Air pods pro, even if they sound better and are prob much more comfortable.

Personally these would prob be end game TWS for me, they tick all boxes besides codecs... Which I think the new Sennheiser will dominate. 

Prob best to wait and see if the price get lowered and check what Sennheiser and others will do later this year.


----------



## Francesco Montanari

Bartig said:


> I agree that the case of the Mpow M5 is way too big, but for me, one of the biggest TWS struggles of getting the earpieces out of the case, is with the original AirPods or AirPods Pro - that annoying fiddling with the top side of the earpieces!
> 
> By the way - I published my Soundcore Liberty 2 Pro review. I try to keep my reviews limited to the 100 dollars mark, but I couldn't pass this one.



Hi! Thanks a lot for your review, maybe you have to do a little update since 2 days ago soundcore app update brings custom EQ also on android 

PS: I sent you a PM


----------



## base08

Not to rain on everyone's parade but if for you AAC codec compatibilty is important (iPhone users), I need to warn you, that so far my QCC3020 equipped Bomaker Sifi, can't connect to any device with AAC but only SBC, On the other side APTX codec does work if forced on my Apple laptop. It's a shame because indeed in terms of sound they are very good while using them with superior APTX versus with SBC... 

SBC codec always has a characteristic shrill high pitched overtone sound, when sub-bass sounds are produced. Usually you can hear this clearly with the test "Bass Shaker" over the Audiocheck Headphones Test webpage: https://www.audiocheck.net/soundtests_headphones.php

If you want to confirm which codec you are using with your Qualcomm 3020 chipset equiped TWSs and if you have an Apple computer, you can press the Bluetooth icon on the top bar together with the Alt key and you get a more complete menu which describes which codec you are currently using with your device.

It's a pitty, but they will be returned to Amazon for false advertising on the AAC codec compatibility. At the same time I've checked the Qualcomm 3020 page and nowhere is to be found AAC compatibility. Amazing that every product equipped with the QCC 3020 (Bomaker Sifi, Mpow M5, Tronsmart Spunky Beats, etc...) they all tout AAC codec compatibility... Chi-fi at its best...


----------



## SilverEars

base08 said:


> Not to rain on everyone's parade but if for you AAC codec compatibilty is important (iPhone users), I need to warn you, that so far my QCC3020 equipped Bomaker Sifi, can't connect to any device with AAC but only SBC, On the other side APTX codec does work if forced on my Apple laptop. It's a shame because indeed in terms of sound they are very good while using them with superior APTX versus with SBC...
> 
> SBC codec always has a characteristic shrill high pitched overtone sound, when sub-bass sounds are produced. Usually you can hear this clearly with the test "Bass Shaker" over the Audiocheck Headphones Test webpage: https://www.audiocheck.net/soundtests_headphones.php
> 
> ...


Yeah, I can tell SBC quality as well.  You can force AAC in developer options, which is a hidden menu on Android phones.


----------



## base08 (Jan 16, 2020)

SilverEars said:


> Yeah, I can tell SBC quality as well.  You can force AAC in developer options, which is a hidden menu on Android phones.


Yes, I have that menu activated on a secundary android phone, it's called the Developer Menu, but if you check and force AAC while using any of these QCC 3020 TWSs, exit the menu and return to the same Bluetooth option, you'll see that SBC is back on... That happens when the device you are using is not supporting the selected codec. Funny enough I've also tried to connect with APTX on this same device and seems not supporting as well... On the Macbook Pro I have works perfectly APTX if forced on the Terminal...


----------



## SilverEars

base08 said:


> Yes, I have that menu activated on a secundary android phone, it's called the Developer Menu, but if you check and force AAC while using any of these QCC 3020 TWSs, exit the menu and return to the same Bluetooth option, you'll see that SBC is back on... That happens when the device you are using is not supporting the selected codec. Funny enough I've also tried to connect with APTX on this same device and seems not supporting as well... On the Macbook Pro I have works perfectly APTX if forced on the Terminal...


So, AptX works on MBPro, but not on Android?  Weird.

If it goes back to SBC, you have any EQ applied?  I know Sony Full-sized XM3 goes to SBC if EQ is applied on their app.


----------



## base08

SilverEars said:


> So, AptX works on MBPro, but not on Android?  Weird.
> 
> If it goes back to SBC, you have any EQ applied?  I know Sony Full-sized XM3 goes to SBC if EQ is applied on their app.



No no, there is no EQ setting or even app on the android phone... So again beware of the QCC 3020 devices as all of them will behave similarly to the Bomaker Sifi: no AAC support at all and APTX might be also sketchy on some Android phones.


----------



## joesuburb

Got the wf-1000xm3 and I'm actually shocked how good they sound.  I wouldn't hesitate to recommend spending money on them.  Really pleased.


----------



## audio123

Just tested the Geekfly GF8. First thought is the implementation is definitely intriguing for a true wireless. After listening to the GF8 different modes, I am very impressed by the sound. For the sound, I will choose the GF8 over my Sony WF-1000XM3.


----------



## Bhelpoori (Jan 16, 2020)

Bartig said:


> I agree that the case of the Mpow M5 is way too big, but for me, one of the biggest TWS struggles of getting the earpieces out of the case, is with the original AirPods or AirPods Pro - that annoying fiddling with the top side of the earpieces!
> 
> By the way - I published my Soundcore Liberty 2 Pro review. I try to keep my reviews limited to the 100 dollars mark, but I couldn't pass this one.



When I first got the AP and APPs that was true, but as soon as I realised that with e.g. the APP you open them and flick them out from the back, I've found that is on-par or better than almost all the others I have.

I agree that Apple could have done better with affordance of getting the earpieces out of the box. Still, they did a pretty good job with the rest IMHO.


----------



## d3myz

audio123 said:


> Just tested the Geekfly GF8. First thought is the implementation is definitely intriguing for a true wireless. After listening to the GF8 different modes, I am very impressed by the sound. For the sound, I will choose the GF8 over my Sony WF-1000XM3.


These looks sweet. How much are they and where can i get them?


----------



## webvan

Bartig said:


> I agree that the case of the Mpow M5 is way too big, but for me, one of the biggest TWS struggles of getting the earpieces out of the case, is with the original AirPods or AirPods Pro - that annoying fiddling with the top side of the earpieces!
> 
> By the way - I published my Soundcore Liberty 2 Pro review. I try to keep my reviews limited to the 100 dollars mark, but I couldn't pass this one.



Nice review, I'm a bit surprised you find they isolate well though as it's been acknowledged by most (all?) here that it's not its strong point and can only really be used in quiet environments. The wings do help (without them the fit would probably be as bad as on the WF-1000Xm3 unless you ram them in your ear) for the fit but still not very stable due to their size and weight. The T1X are much better for both these aspects in my experience. Thy don't sound as pleasant though with their rather narrow (at least compared to the L2P) soundstage.


----------



## audio123

d3myz said:


> These looks sweet. How much are they and where can i get them?


They are really good, was not expecting it to sound better than my Sony WF-1000XM3. 99 USD, https://penonaudio.com/geekfly-gf8.html. Cheers!


----------



## webvan

They seem to have the same convenient form factor as the X12/E12 too, do they sit pretty flush with the ear once inserted ?


----------



## audio123

webvan said:


> They seem to have the same convenient form factor as the X12/E12 too, do they sit pretty flush with the ear once inserted ?


Here you go!


----------



## Sam L

audio123 said:


> Here you go!


you guys are killing me with exposure to all these interesting tws earbuds! damn... and i just got a pair of 1000xm3 in. going to test how they sound via ldac with eq adjustments via viper4android so I can bypass the sony app downgrading the bluetooth codec.


----------



## audio123

Sam L said:


> you guys are killing me with exposure to all these interesting tws earbuds! damn... and i just got a pair of 1000xm3 in. going to test how they sound via ldac with eq adjustments via viper4android so I can bypass the sony app downgrading the bluetooth codec.


I generally use my Sony WF-1000XM3 & Apple Airpods Pro for ANC. However, for SQ, I will take the Geekfly GF8.


----------



## DynamicEars

base08 said:


> No no, there is no EQ setting or even app on the android phone... So again beware of the QCC 3020 devices as all of them will behave similarly to the Bomaker Sifi: no AAC support at all and APTX might be also sketchy on some Android phones.



this is weird, my Haylou GT1 plus have Qualcomm QCC3020 and always connected to AAC to my LG v40, and i force to use APTX, they are in APTX mode. no problem at all, never once connected to SBS by default.


----------



## d3myz (Jan 16, 2020)

base08 said:


> Not to rain on everyone's parade but if for you AAC codec compatibilty is important (iPhone users), I need to warn you, that so far my QCC3020 equipped Bomaker Sifi, can't connect to any device with AAC but only SBC, On the other side APTX codec does work if forced on my Apple laptop. It's a shame because indeed in terms of sound they are very good while using them with superior APTX versus with SBC...
> 
> SBC codec always has a characteristic shrill high pitched overtone sound, when sub-bass sounds are produced. Usually you can hear this clearly with the test "Bass Shaker" over the Audiocheck Headphones Test webpage: https://www.audiocheck.net/soundtests_headphones.php
> 
> ...



This has not been my experience. The 3020 definitely supports AAC and AptX. My Spunkybeats are connected to my MAC using AAC right now. The M5/T5 also, The OFUSHO P.O.S', The NUARL NT01A which uses the 3020, the 1more Stylish, I could go on. I had the Bowmaker and they also supported AAC on my mac, so Maybe there's an issue with your equipment. I also use an iphone


Spamateur said:


> I've had the N6 in house for a few days and have yet to actually return the N6 Pro, so I've been swapping back and forth tonight.
> 
> I initially found the Pro on the brighter side and a little light in bass, but excelling in technicalities. I love the soaring airiness and impressive detail retrieval, but I wish they were a bit warmer than neutral.
> 
> ...


So I was doing another quick A/B/C with the T1x and the N6 and Pro. The only one I didn't like today was the N6. My mid bass is still a bit bloated sounding. So I decided to try them with the Symbio Peel tips. It made a huge difference. It reduced the mid bass quite a bit and now i'm hearing the highs more like the N6 pro. I still love the pro's but they just sound a little empty to me down low. If the N6 Pro had the low end the T1x has i'd be in heaven. I also threw some comply foam tips on the N6 and got another huge reduction in mid-bass. and they are nearly as bright and thin as the N6 pro sound on certain tracks.


----------



## vaaccess

audio123 said:


> I generally use my Sony WF-1000XM3 & Apple Airpods Pro for ANC. However, for SQ, I will take the Geekfly GF8.



interesting. As I’m sure is true for everyone, I’d really like to have it all in a single pair of TWS. Do you feel like that’s just not yet attainable?  I am intrigued by the Geekfly GF8, thanks for sharing your thoughts on them.


----------



## Spamateur

d3myz said:


> I also threw some comply foam tips on the N6 and got another huge reduction in mid-bass. and they are nearly as bright and thin as the N6 pro sound on certain tracks.



Whoa, that's a surprise. My experience has been that the bass isn't as tight with the Complys but there seems to be more of it. I also found it tames the top end a bit, but that was maybe a bit more subtle. I will swap back to the silicone tips on the N to see if I'm imagining things.


----------



## CocaCola15

webvan said:


> Nice review, I'm a bit surprised you find they isolate well though as it's been acknowledged by most (all?) here that it's not its strong point and can only really be used in quiet environments. The wings do help (without them the fit would probably be as bad as on the WF-1000Xm3 unless you ram them in your ear) for the fit but still not very stable due to their size and weight. The T1X are much better for both these aspects in my experience. Thy don't sound as pleasant though with their rather narrow (at least compared to the L2P) soundstage.


I guess I got lucky here, since I took the wings off the L2P (they annoyed me) and use the Comply Audio Pro foam tips and they stay put, never fall out, no need to ram anything in my ear. Also, with the Comply tips, they isolate decently. Not ANC but as good as most passive in-ear phones I've tried/owned. Did you own the L2Pro and return them?


----------



## CocaCola15

webvan said:


> I didn't keep them as they were a terrible fit but in reading reviews on Amazon and elsewhere I remember many people complaining that they were getting nowhere near the advertized 9 hours but closer to 6 hours so yours are probably not defective...so I wouldn't hold my breath for a reply from CA, at least a useful one !


Never got close to using them for 9 hours, 2-3 max, so can't comment on that. They did get back to me fairly quickly via email and ended up making good on my issue, which was connectivity. I can see how fit would be an issue for some; the OEM foam tips just worked. I didn't care for the silicone tips and sound sig, TBH. With that, I ended up with about 8-9 pair of foams tips so I could keep the M1s. Otherwise, I would not have been happy. I have compared notes with a few M1 owners vs PM and they all agree, they prefer the foam for sound.


----------



## d3myz (Jan 16, 2020)

Spamateur said:


> Whoa, that's a surprise. My experience has been that the bass isn't as tight with the Complys but there seems to be more of it. I also found it tames the top end a bit, but that was maybe a bit more subtle. I will swap back to the silicone tips on the N to see if I'm imagining things.


Yea, generally i don't like foam tips, they seem to tame the high end and reduce bass, but they take away the some of the mid bass from the N6 for me. I have no idea which tips i'm using, I think it's some that I bought like years ago but never used and they are super long. I still like the Auvio's and Spiral Dots. I noticed that the stock NUARL tips have the most mid range but they also make the sound the most cohesive to me. They are great on the N6 pro because some of the other tips i've tried really seem to boost the highs and I def. don't need anymore in the Pro. What's really interesting is if you listen to the Spunky beats, then the T1x, then the N6 pro. The Spunky Beats make the T1x sound warm. I think the SB's have a tuning similar to the N6 pro, but not near as defined.


----------



## Luchyres

audio123 said:


> Here you go!


What audio mode do you prefer and can you compare and contrast how they affect the sound for you? Thank you!


----------



## webvan

CocaCola15 said:


> I guess I got lucky here, since I took the wings off the L2P (they annoyed me) and use the Comply Audio Pro foam tips and they stay put, never fall out, no need to ram anything in my ear. Also, with the Comply tips, they isolate decently. Not ANC but as good as most passive in-ear phones I've tried/owned. Did you own the L2Pro and return them?


I still have them (v2 so with some hiss but "pure" white noise, not the cheap RF shielding noise of the T1X) as the SQ is absolutely superb. I

After reading your message I gave the the Complys another try (T200 L Audio) and isolation is great but to my ears they they just "muddy" the whole spectrum of frequencies compared to silicone tips (when listening with a Comply on one side and a Silicon on the other side the difference is staggering) and reinforce the bass too much (not something the L2P needs !) and they do have to be "rammed in" (and squished and held for 10+ seconds, an "annoyance") but they don't hurt the canal of course being made of foam. I ordered some "New Bee" "shiny foams this week and while they don't isolate as much (not much more than the stock silicone tips really) they preserve some of the L2Ps stellar SQ. Anyway I'm fine listening to the L2Ps in quiet environments, for noisy ones I have the Amazon Echo Buds


----------



## d3myz

Been eyeing these Geek Fly GF8's posted earlier by @audio123. Looks like they are $109.90 on their site and you can get 5-7 day shipping to the U.S. I'd pay an extra $10 to not have to wait a month, Looks like Penon offers Express shipping as well, but it doesn't mention the shipping time. Not to keen on the 4 hour battery life, but, i'd def. like to hear some more impressions about these if you wouldn't mind doing some comparisons.


----------



## base08

DynamicEars said:


> this is weird, my Haylou GT1 plus have Qualcomm QCC3020 and always connected to AAC to my LG v40, and i force to use APTX, they are in APTX mode. no problem at all, never once connected to SBS by default.



Hum are you sure they are the Plus model? Because the previous versions no-Pro and Pro were with another chipset (maybe the Realtek also used in the QCY T1/QS1) and from my experience those work perfectly with AAC on all my devices: Macbook Pro, iPhone 6S, iPad gen 7 and a Nokia Android One 3.1.



d3myz said:


> This has not been my experience. The 3020 definitely supports AAC and AptX. My Spunkybeats are connected to my MAC using AAC right now. The M5/T5 also, The OFUSHO P.O.S', The NUARL NT01A which uses the 3020, the 1more Stylish, I could go on. I had the Bowmaker and they also supported AAC on my mac, so Maybe there's an issue with your equipment. I also use an iphone



I believe in you, but at the same time I've tried on several devices and no AAC to be found with my Bomaker Sifi pair... Is my pair somehow defective? Is there anyone else, specifically with the Bomaker Sifi that can confirm the AAC connection?


----------



## CocaCola15

webvan said:


> I still have them (v2 so with some hiss but "pure" white noise, not the cheap RF shielding noise of the T1X) as the SQ is absolutely superb. I
> 
> After reading your message I gave the the Complys another try (T200 L Audio) and isolation is great but to my ears they they just "muddy" the whole spectrum of frequencies compared to silicone tips (when listening with a Comply on one side and a Silicon on the other side the difference is staggering) and reinforce the bass too much (not something the L2P needs !) and they do have to be "rammed in" (and squished and held for 10+ seconds, an "annoyance") but they don't hurt the canal of course being made of foam. I ordered some "New Bee" "shiny foams this week and while they don't isolate as much (not much more than the stock silicone tips really) they preserve some of the L2Ps stellar SQ. Anyway I'm fine listening to the L2Ps in quiet environments, for noisy ones I have the Amazon Echo Buds


Might have to try those tips. I do use an EQ, in the Kaiser Audio player, with my phones, well the ones I feel need it. So I do adjust the L2P sound, trim the bass, boost the mids, etc. While the L2P are not perfect, I ended up keeping them. I also ordered the new Tranya B530 Pro, already own a pair of Tranyas. So decided to give them a try. If they can match up with the L2P or the Melomania 1 (I know you are not a fan), I'll be good. For home listening, I am still old school with either wired over ear phones, Koss Porta Pros or I use the ES100. And I do like the Sony M3s, full-size. So many options! Too many?


----------



## webvan (Jan 16, 2020)

base08 said:


> Hum are you sure they are the Plus model? Because the previous versions no-Pro and Pro were with another chipset (maybe the Realtek also used in the QCY T1/QS1) and from my experience those work perfectly with AAC on all my devices: Macbook Pro, iPhone 6S, iPad gen 7 and a Nokia Android One 3.1.
> 
> 
> 
> I believe in you, but at the same time I've tried on several devices and no AAC to be found with my Bomaker Sifi pair... Is my pair somehow defective? Is there anyone else, specifically with the Bomaker Sifi that can confirm the AAC connection?



Same here, no AAC with my Nokia 8 running Android 9, the AAC setting just does not "stick" in the "Developer Options", unlike SBC and aptX.

As a side note testing the Bomakers reminding me how good they sound compared to the T1X, much clearer and with a much wider soundstage. It's too bad they don't come with wings and I lose the seal too easily when I'm active.


----------



## d3myz (Jan 16, 2020)

webvan said:


> Same here, no AAC with my Nokia 8 running Android 9, the AAC setting just does not "stick" in the "Developer Options", unlike SBC and aptX.
> 
> As a side note testing the Bomakers reminding me how good they sound compared to the T1X, much clearer and with a much wider soundstage. It's too bad they don't come with wings and I lose the seal too easily when I'm active.


I don't have an android device, but with my macbook, I have to uncheck "Force AptX" and make sure Enable AAC is checked for AAC to work Otherwise AptX takes over on all my devices that support both.


----------



## base08

webvan said:


> Same here, no AAC with my Nokia 8 running Android 9, the AAC setting just does not "stick" in the "Developer Options", unlike SBC and aptX.
> 
> As a side note testing the Bomakers reminding me how good they sound compared to the T1X, much clearer and with a much wider soundstage. It's too bad they don't come with wings and I lose the seal too easily when I'm active.



And the plot thickens...

I did a lot of testing and I can say for sure that I never got AAC activated on all the devices.

I noticed also that the Libratone Track Air+ have the QCC 5121 which is a higher tier chipset from Qualcomm available for TWS devices and that one is reported by The Guardian, that it only supports SBC and APTX: https://www.theguardian.com/technol...-noise-cancelling-airpods-apple-wont-give-you

I'll try further research to clarify this situation, but in any case if someone can test other Bomakers and even other QCC 3020 devices to know if they really support AAC, that would help. (maybe @Bartig can step in and help also!)


----------



## webvan

Apparently the latest update for the LTA+ has added AAC, I don't have them anymore to verify this though.


----------



## hifi80sman (Jan 16, 2020)

base08 said:


> Not to rain on everyone's parade but if for you AAC codec compatibilty is important (iPhone users), I need to warn you, that so far my QCC3020 equipped Bomaker Sifi, can't connect to any device with AAC but only SBC, On the other side APTX codec does work if forced on my Apple laptop. It's a shame because indeed in terms of sound they are very good while using them with superior APTX versus with SBC...
> 
> SBC codec always has a characteristic shrill high pitched overtone sound, when sub-bass sounds are produced. Usually you can hear this clearly with the test "Bass Shaker" over the Audiocheck Headphones Test webpage: https://www.audiocheck.net/soundtests_headphones.php
> 
> ...


To be clear, the MPOW M5/T5 connects via AAC.


----------



## FYLegend

base08 said:


> Yes, I have that menu activated on a secundary android phone, it's called the Developer Menu, but if you check and force AAC while using any of these QCC 3020 TWSs, exit the menu and return to the same Bluetooth option, you'll see that SBC is back on... That happens when the device you are using is not supporting the selected codec. Funny enough I've also tried to connect with APTX on this same device and seems not supporting as well... On the Macbook Pro I have works perfectly APTX if forced on the Terminal...


Not the case for me. I tested this on the Sabbat E12 Ultra and Tronsmart Onyx Neo, which both use QCC3020, as well as the Dyplay Urban Traveller 2 (over-ear ANC headphone with QCC3005).

On my Note 9 Exynos, the AAC option sticks the next time I enter Developer options and I also hear a sound difference. (AAC generally seems to have a warmer tuning with slightly less volume - the Dyplay actually sounds less distorted than with AptX) However, it is only remembered for the current pairing and defaults to AptX on the next connection.

What I am disappointed about the QCC3020 is that on a non-TWS+-supporting device, the "true mono mode" is NOT seamless. 1) It registers two listings for the device, which in the case of Sabbat E12 Ultra is almost indistinguishable, while Tronsmart fortunately named them left and right. You can rename these on Android, but on Windows 10 the renaming is only temporary (unless someone can correct me on this). 2) Switching the buds leads to a temporary cut and gap where my laptop speakers play instead. 3) It's not a true mono downmix. It's only playing whatever side you are wearing.  I've had much more seamless single-bud use with the Jabees Firefly and the BE30 Air Anbes clone.


----------



## DynamicEars

base08 said:


> Hum are you sure they are the Plus model? Because the previous versions no-Pro and Pro were with another chipset (maybe the Realtek also used in the QCY T1/QS1) and from my experience those work perfectly with AAC on all my devices: Macbook Pro, iPhone 6S, iPad gen 7 and a Nokia Android One 3.1.
> 
> 
> 
> I believe in you, but at the same time I've tried on several devices and no AAC to be found with my Bomaker Sifi pair... Is my pair somehow defective? Is there anyone else, specifically with the Bomaker Sifi that can confirm the AAC connection?



Yes Im sure mine is GT1 plus, I know the previous haylous are using realtek chip and the newer GT1 plus are using qcc3020 thats what made me buy the plus. The DD also using different bio membrane.
I've read somwhere that qcc3020 or other qualcomm bt chipset works better with Qualcomm snapdragon 835/845 or higher? But connect through aac should be more universal thingy.

Mine always conmected to AAC by default, but i always force them to connect using APTX. Again they never connected through SBS at all unless i force them to.

 

That is the box, written GT1 PL (US) and on bottom left clearly written qualcomm APTX


----------



## Quicky32

turbobb said:


> Do you have a shipping receipt or any kind of tracking? Also, try contacting corporate to see they received it and can either forward it on or ship it back to you.



I provided proof of purchase direct and tracking showing it arrived at their office in Bellevue Washington.  They basically told me that if they find it then they will return it because it’s passed their 30 day policy and if not then I’m out of luck.


----------



## Caipirina

audio123 said:


> Just tested the Geekfly GF8. First thought is the implementation is definitely intriguing for a true wireless. After listening to the GF8 different modes, I am very impressed by the sound. For the sound, I will choose the GF8 over my Sony WF-1000XM3.



Impressive inners, but how is the fit? That shape looks pretty uncomfortable. Oh. and price?


----------



## audio123

Caipirina said:


> Impressive inners, but how is the fit? That shape looks pretty uncomfortable. Oh. and price?


Excellent fit for me, you can check out the GF8 in my ear, https://www.head-fi.org/threads/goi...e-we-there-yet.861024/page-1246#post-15419890. It is 99 USD.


----------



## Caipirina

audio123 said:


> Excellent fit for me, you can check out the GF8 in my ear, https://www.head-fi.org/threads/goi...e-we-there-yet.861024/page-1246#post-15419890. It is 99 USD.



Thanks! I really should have finished scrolling through the unread pages where I just now saw that you diligently answered everything already ...

These look tasty and the price is reasonable ... and I really do NOT need yet another set of TWE !!!!   

(Trying to be a good boy until the Bose ANC are released)


----------



## thimantha

SilverEars said:


> I don't use iphone, but Android, so does that mean I get no updates?



Correct. You need to be paired to an Apple device for the firmware to be updated. :c


----------



## Caipirina (Jan 16, 2020)

Another PSA for fellow APP enthusiasts. A YouTube video brought to my attention the existence of 3rd party memory foam tips for the APP with a link to eBay where they can be had for 30$ for the set.
Quick deep dive on AE reveals much better pricing and also sponge tips and color tips.



also regular replacements are available for cheap and they already have some positive reviews.

ordered the memory foam ones and will chime back in in “30-50 days” 

Beware that the sponge ones are also labeled as ‘memory foam’


----------



## jant71

audio123 said:


> I generally use my Sony WF-1000XM3 & Apple Airpods Pro for ANC. However, for SQ, I will take the Geekfly GF8.



How about the connection and range and the touch control response??


----------



## audio123

Caipirina said:


> Thanks! I really should have finished scrolling through the unread pages where I just now saw that you diligently answered everything already ...
> 
> These look tasty and the price is reasonable ... and I really do NOT need yet another set of TWE !!!!
> 
> (Trying to be a good boy until the Bose ANC are released)


Glad to be of help.



jant71 said:


> How about the connection and range and the touch control response??


Connection is solid. Have not tested the range yet. The touch control response is good but don't expect the level of Sony WF-1000XM3. Cheers!


----------



## wksoh

Oscar-HiFi said:


> If you can get hold of the SoundMAGIC TWS50 I would be interested to know how they do against the SSK


Sound Magic TWS50 looks good!


----------



## howdy

Anyone here know when the Bose TW will be released?


----------



## Caipirina

howdy said:


> Anyone here know when the Bose TW will be released?



"sometime in 2020" was the last official word I heard back in September.
Since then the ANC market has heated up thanks to a certain fruit company ... Bose better get stuff done now!


----------



## SilverEars

Caipirina said:


> "sometime in 2020" was the last official word I heard back in September.
> Since then the ANC market has heated up thanks to a certain fruit company ... Bose better get stuff done now!


Maybe, once they saw APP released with such a small form factor, they cursed and went back to the drawing board.  Given their track record, I was expecting theirs to look bulky like the XM3.  If we think about  it, good ANC in that small form factor of APP was game changing.  Now we need 10+ hrs of battery life in such a small size.


----------



## bronco1015

d3myz said:


> Sweet! I just got my invite too! I ordered them on amazon.


have you gotten one from a company called World? i've gotten a few messages from them on fb somehow. i replied to the first


C_Lin
[QUOTE="C_Lindbergh said:


> B&O added the third gen E8 to their product page:
> 
> https://www.bang-olufsen.com/en/earphones/beoplay-e8-3rd-gen?variant=beoplay-e8-3-black
> 
> ...


----------



## Caipirina

SilverEars said:


> Maybe, once they saw APP released with such a small form factor, they cursed and went back to the drawing board.  Given their track record, I was expecting theirs to look bulky like the XM3.  If we think about  it, good ANC in that small form factor of APP was game changing.  Now we need 10+ hrs of battery life in such a small size.



This looks size wise not much smaller than the Bose SSF ... so, they better have a great sound, killer ANC and / or fantastic battery. 
I admit that I enjoy the Bose house sound and I am a sucker for those Stay Hear tips ... so, most likely I will get them anyways ...


----------



## bronco1015

d3myz said:


> Yea, generally i don't like foam tips, they seem to tame the high end and reduce bass, but they take away the some of the mid bass from the N6 for me. I have no idea which tips i'm using, I think it's some that I bought like years ago but never used and they are super long. I still like the Auvio's and Spiral Dots. I noticed that the stock NUARL tips have the most mid range but they also make the sound the most cohesive to me. They are great on the N6 pro because some of the other tips i've tried really seem to boost the highs and I def. don't need anymore in the Pro. What's really interesting is if you listen to the Spunky beats, then the T1x, then the N6 pro. The Spunky Beats make the T1x sound warm. I think the SB's have a tuning similar to the N6 pro, but not near as defined.


 Got my Spunky beats Tuesday and have switched a lot between them, N6pro, MTW and Fiil. i'd have to agree with the similarities between SB and N6p. i really enjoy it.


----------



## bronco1015

base08 said:


> Hum are you sure they are the Plus model? Because the previous versions no-Pro and Pro were with another chipset (maybe the Realtek also used in the QCY T1/QS1) and from my experience those work perfectly with AAC on all my devices: Macbook Pro, iPhone 6S, iPad gen 7 and a Nokia Android One 3.1.
> 
> 
> 
> I believe in you, but at the same time I've tried on several devices and no AAC to be found with my Bomaker Sifi pair... Is my pair somehow defective? Is there anyone else, specifically with the Bomaker Sifi that can confirm the AAC connection?


my V40 almost always defaults to AAC and this is also true for the SiFi. not to mention the countless QC3020 twes i've reviewed and or kept. if you otherwise like them, i'd say get another pair.


----------



## wksoh (Jan 21, 2020)

Today the Mpow M5 met a strong competitor. In the name of JBL Free X. Cons: The JBL Free x has lower volume than Mpow M5 and no vol controls. JBL has strong bass but a tad softer than mpow. Strong mids like Mpow M5, but the jbl has that grunge in the mids that makes that Alnico humbucker distortion more alive. This little extra bite goes a long way. Joe Cocker voice is even throatier now. I'll recheck my SSK but I think it may come up short against the JBL Free X.


----------



## d3myz

base08 said:


> Not to rain on everyone's parade but if for you AAC codec compatibilty is important (iPhone users), I need to warn you, that so far my QCC3020 equipped Bomaker Sifi, can't connect to any device with AAC but only SBC, On the other side APTX codec does work if forced on my Apple laptop. It's a shame because indeed in terms of sound they are very good while using them with superior APTX versus with SBC...
> 
> SBC codec always has a characteristic shrill high pitched overtone sound, when sub-bass sounds are produced. Usually you can hear this clearly with the test "Bass Shaker" over the Audiocheck Headphones Test webpage: https://www.audiocheck.net/soundtests_headphones.php
> 
> ...





Caipirina said:


> Another PSA for fellow APP enthusiasts. A YouTube video brought to my attention the existence of 3rd party memory foam tips for the APP with a link to eBay where they can be had for 30$ for the set.
> Quick deep dive on AE reveals much better pricing and also sponge tips and color tips.
> 
> 
> ...


 Thanks for the Links, I ordered some Mem Foam and Some Grey and Black tips, I'm excited!



bronco1015 said:


> have you gotten one from a company called World? i've gotten a few messages from them on fb somehow. i replied to the first


 I have not. I got my invite directly from Ida @ tranya. She also told me there's a new Rimor being released at the end of this month.


----------



## Caipirina

d3myz said:


> Thanks for the Links, I ordered some Mem Foam and Some Grey and Black tips, I'm excited!


I knew someone else would get excited about accessorizing their APP (how many cases did you get so far? I have no idea what the hype is on AE with 'DHL' logo as a design choice, but somehow I needed THIS case   )


 

I am still holding off on those red tips, as they want to charge me over 3$ for shipping (might be my location being the issue). Waiting for more sellers to offer them


----------



## bronco1015

d3myz said:


> Thanks for the Links, I ordered some Mem Foam and Some Grey and Black tips, I'm excited!
> 
> I have not. I got my invite directly from Ida @ tranya. She also told me there's a new Rimor being released at the end of this month.


world is different than Tranya as far as i can tell. My invite for the b530 pro came from ida. but this World" is supposedly a different company, they want to release a sports focused twe is really all i know at this point. not gonna work with them though, because they want a 5star review. i didn't even bother replying back.


----------



## georgelai57

Caipirina said:


> I knew someone else would get excited about accessorizing their APP (how many cases did you get so far? I have no idea what the hype is on AE with 'DHL' logo as a design choice, but somehow I needed THIS case   )


There can be problems with some of these APP cases. I have a silicon one where the hinge prevents you from using a wireless charger because the design prevents you from laying the whole thing flat against the charger. Then there are the hard types where when you open the case it puts unnecessary pressure on the APP’s own hinge. 
There was also one for the Sony WF-1000XM3 where its magnetic flap interfered with the auto power on of the earbuds.


----------



## FYLegend

bronco1015 said:


> just got an invite to review Tranya's upcoming B530 Pro. Apparently will have BT5, 80 hours playtime including charges in case, guessing that either means they expect 8 or 10 hours from the iems. also says APTX compatible with CVC8.0. Wonder if they're using Qualcom's QC3020 that would make sense from a battery life perspective and CVC8.0.
> They will charge via USB-C and retail for $69.99


How do you get an invite? Do they contact people they are familiar with as reviewers?

The site still lists microUSB for the B530 Pro. I suspect they are leaving it for the Rimor and the new version (which might have AptX).


----------



## bronco1015

FYLegend said:


> How do you get an invite? Do they contact people they are familiar with as reviewers?
> 
> The site still lists microUSB for the B530 Pro. I suspect they are leaving it for the Rimor and the new version (which might have AptX).


Back in August, at Jimmyr posted in this thread that Tranya was looking for testers in the states. a bunch of us went and liked their fb page and messaged saying we were interested. or  maybe emailed first i canlt remember for sure. but i think i messaged them then got an email, reviewed the b530 and now will do the same for the b530 pro.
What i posted about USB-C and APTX was included in the email i got yesterday as part of the invite. I'll be able to confirm when they get here tomorrow.


----------



## Bartig (Jan 17, 2020)

base08 said:


> Not to rain on everyone's parade but if for you AAC codec compatibilty is important (iPhone users), I need to warn you, that so far my QCC3020 equipped Bomaker Sifi, can't connect to any device with AAC but only SBC, On the other side APTX codec does work if forced on my Apple laptop. It's a shame because indeed in terms of sound they are very good while using them with superior APTX versus with SBC...
> 
> SBC codec always has a characteristic shrill high pitched overtone sound, when sub-bass sounds are produced. Usually you can hear this clearly with the test "Bass Shaker" over the Audiocheck Headphones Test webpage: https://www.audiocheck.net/soundtests_headphones.php
> 
> ...


This is really interesting. I didn’t mind codecs so far, mostly because I just review earphones on how they sound. The underlying codec may perhaps be relevant for like 10% of the earphone buyers? So far though, I always write the supported codecs in the specs above my review. May have to reconsider I see. Have to check it better appearantly.

I don’t find it a really big problem however, as I find the Sifi sound so good. 



audio123 said:


> Just tested the Geekfly GF8. First thought is the implementation is definitely intriguing for a true wireless. After listening to the GF8 different modes, I am very impressed by the sound. For the sound, I will choose the GF8 over my Sony WF-1000XM3.


Sounds great! Can you tell more about the sound signature?



webvan said:


> Nice review, I'm a bit surprised you find they isolate well though as it's been acknowledged by most (all?) here that it's not its strong point and can only really be used in quiet environments. The wings do help (without them the fit would probably be as bad as on the WF-1000Xm3 unless you ram them in your ear) for the fit but still not very stable due to their size and weight. The T1X are much better for both these aspects in my experience. Thy don't sound as pleasant though with their rather narrow (at least compared to the L2P) soundstage.


I seem to prefer a less soundstage with excellent instrument placement way above a wider soundstage with poor placement. 

Edit: bought the Geekfly TWS. And the new TFZ Coco. And the new Wharfedale WPods.


----------



## chinmie

georgelai57 said:


> There can be problems with some of these APP cases. I have a silicon one where the hinge prevents you from using a wireless charger because the design prevents you from laying the whole thing flat against the charger. Then there are the hard types where when you open the case it puts unnecessary pressure on the APP’s own hinge.
> There was also one for the Sony WF-1000XM3 where its magnetic flap interfered with the auto power on of the earbuds.



this is what i use for my XM3

  

i also opted from buying the ones with magnetic flaps because some reviewers said it interfered with the battery life of the case. this one uses push button, so it's safe. also it's real leather, i just love the feel and smell of it


----------



## Caipirina (Jan 17, 2020)

chinmie said:


> this is what i use for my XM3
> 
> 
> 
> i also opted from buying the ones with magnetic flaps because some reviewers said it interfered with the battery life of the case. this one uses push button, so it's safe. also it's real leather, i just love the feel and smell of it



This looks like the kind of case @georgelai57 is describing as in 'take out of case if you like wireless charging'  It sure looks good and I am not a super duper vegan, but I refrain from buying leather, as nice as it looks / feels / smells ...   my other case is simple 'faux' pleather.



georgelai57 said:


> There can be problems with some of these APP cases. I have a silicon one where the hinge prevents you from using a wireless charger because the design prevents you from laying the whole thing flat against the charger. Then there are the hard types where when you open the case it puts unnecessary pressure on the APP’s own hinge.
> There was also one for the Sony WF-1000XM3 where its magnetic flap interfered with the auto power on of the earbuds.



Yeah, when browsing through cases I made sure that it looked flat enough for charging (also: not adding too much bulk) and nothing fancy (not sure I ever noticed 'magnetic flap') ... those DHL ones are just 2 not even connected pieces that happen to fit nice and tight, only thing missing is a hole to see the charging light.

Interesting side observation: those little cases we see on AE for 1$ (simple silicone) or 2-3$ (bit more fancy), are being sold in Japan for 2000¥, 3000¥ and more, so, like 10 times. Some smart importer puts them in fancy looking boxes to make them look extra premium (same with phone cases!)


----------



## FYLegend

bronco1015 said:


> Back in August, at Jimmyr posted in this thread that Tranya was looking for testers in the states. a bunch of us went and liked their fb page and messaged saying we were interested. or  maybe emailed first i canlt remember for sure. but i think i messaged them then got an email, reviewed the b530 and now will do the same for the b530 pro.
> What i posted about USB-C and APTX was included in the email i got yesterday as part of the invite. I'll be able to confirm when they get here tomorrow.


Oh, now I remember hearing something like that... unfortunately not in Canada (they had a big sale on Amazon.ca just before the Rimor was launched but it still isn't on there.)


----------



## DjBobby

chinmie said:


> this is what i use for my XM3
> 
> 
> 
> i also opted from buying the ones with magnetic flaps because some reviewers said it interfered with the battery life of the case. this one uses push button, so it's safe. also it's real leather, i just love the feel and smell of it


Where did you get it?


----------



## chinmie

DjBobby said:


> Where did you get it?



I bought it from shopee, but you can also find them in Aliexpress


----------



## base08

Bartig said:


> This is really interesting. I didn’t mind codecs so far, mostly because I just review earphones on how they sound. The underlying codec may perhaps be relevant for like 10% of the earphone buyers? So far though, I always write the supported codecs in the specs above my review. May have to reconsider I see. Have to check it better appearantly.
> 
> I don’t find it a really big problem however, as I find the Sifi sound so good.



I do also find them amazing performers for the price, but it's a pity they advertise AAC when in the end they don't support AAC (I've noticed that they updated their german and french amazon pages and removed any reference to AAC). 

I know that talking about codecs might seem nitpicking, but like I mentioned when you hear sub-bass range and even bass range coming through a SBC codec, there is always a high pitched noise at the same time, which is far from ideal (you can really hear what I mean when A-B between SBC and APTX on the Bomaker Sifi with the "Bass Shaker" test at https://www.audiocheck.net/soundtests_headphones.php). Of course when you listen to music with several frequencies at the same time, these annoying noises get drowned and less noticeable and in the end that's what most people will care about, but for the true head-fiers this will bother their sleep...


----------



## Caipirina

bronco1015 said:


> Got my Spunky beats Tuesday and have switched a lot between them, N6pro, MTW and Fiil. i'd have to agree with the similarities between SB and N6p. i really enjoy it.



I did my first run with the Spunky Beats today and they performed very well. They do sound better than the APP ... my usual route has a lot of traffic that even the APP's ANC can't totally filter out, the SB did passively about the same. Quite impressed, especially given the price.


----------



## bronco1015

Caipirina said:


> I did my first run with the Spunky Beats today and they performed very well. They do sound better than the APP ... my usual route has a lot of traffic that even the APP's ANC can't totally filter out, the SB did passively about the same. Quite impressed, especially given the price.


That's awesome. I'm gonna try them out on the bus i take to work later this morning then to see if passively they isolatew well enough for that. Are the touch controls on yours rediculously sensative?? i didn't spend a ton of time with the first pair, but i bought a pair as a christmas gift for my Friend's son and i felt like the touch panels on his were mor sensitiv haen on my pair. I make it a point to touch just the outter most edge of them while putting them in etc and 99% of the time theres no issue. Also, not a deal breaker, but i do wish the controls were reversed. e.g. volume up and rwnd on left instead of right.


----------



## Caipirina

bronco1015 said:


> That's awesome. I'm gonna try them out on the bus i take to work later this morning then to see if passively they isolatew well enough for that. Are the touch controls on yours rediculously sensative?? i didn't spend a ton of time with the first pair, but i bought a pair as a christmas gift for my Friend's son and i felt like the touch panels on his were mor sensitiv haen on my pair. I make it a point to touch just the outter most edge of them while putting them in etc and 99% of the time theres no issue. Also, not a deal breaker, but i do wish the controls were reversed. e.g. volume up and rwnd on left instead of right.



Really not a fan of touch panels, totally prefer clicky buttons ... i need one touch alone to locate the center .. by then I already paused the music, or my phone is calling my dentist .. so, I kinda stay away from them. I tried a double tab while running which utterly failed, it was easier to touch my phone while keeping it in my running belt and sense for the volume buttons ...  can't say I find them extra fiddly, just as annoying as pretty much all other touch fields.


----------



## chinmie

Caipirina said:


> Really not a fan of touch panels, totally prefer clicky buttons ... i need one touch alone to locate the center .. by then I already paused the music, or my phone is calling my dentist .. so, I kinda stay away from them. I tried a double tab while running which utterly failed, it was easier to touch my phone while keeping it in my running belt and sense for the volume buttons ...  can't say I find them extra fiddly, just as annoying as pretty much all other touch fields.



i always use touch controls with my full open palms.. much more precise and no "thud" sound. i also always seems to guess slightly when I'm using my finger


----------



## DigDub

Wow! What clarity and details the Nuarl N6 Pro brings. I find the bass to be sufficient and the top end is detailed and clear without harshness, unlike the MW07 Go which is a sibilance fest. Definitely worth considering in this price range.


----------



## Bartig

Ordered the TFZ Coco, Edifier TWS6, Wharfedale WPods, newest TaoTronics and the Geekfly in a single day. Only three via Amazon so I can send them back. Wth am I doing.


----------



## Caipirina

Bartig said:


> Ordered the TFZ Coco, Edifier TWS6, Wharfedale WPods, newest TaoTronics and the Geekfly in a single day. Only three via Amazon so I can send them back. Wth am I doing.


No, you don’t have a problem!


----------



## webvan (Jan 17, 2020)

Caipirina said:


> I did my first run with the Spunky Beats today and they performed very well. They do sound better than the APP ... my usual route has a lot of traffic that even the APP's ANC can't totally filter out, the SB did passively about the same. Quite impressed, especially given the price.


How about the infamous "runner's thud" though ? Also have you tried the PBPs again ? You'd mentioned they didn't have the "thud" some time ago. I may give it a last attempt to find IEMs for running in noisier (or windier) environments than the stellar X12s can handle by getting the GGMM T1s and their PBP form factor...

One more attempt to get some feedback from T1X owners about any static (sound of RF interference, not the "white noise" of say the L2P) in the right ear, am I really the only one with this problem ? That would mean I got a dud


----------



## webvan (Jan 17, 2020)

hifi80sman said:


> To be clear, the MPOW M5/T5 connects via AAC.



Not on my Nokia 8 running Android 9, same as with the Bomaker, AAC does not "stick" and it's a "chirp" when I select it as opposed as a "silence+resume playing" when I select either SBC or aptX. 

EDIT - Probably something to do with the interface though because with the AAC only Amazon Echo Buds the Bluetooth shows AAC but NOT the developer options.


----------



## vaaccess

webvan said:


> I may give it a last attempt to find IEMs for running in noisier (or windier) environments than the stellar X12s can handle by getting the GGMM T1s and their PBP form factor...



I’m looking for a TWS for the same reasons, haven’t pulled the trigger on any yet. I use the Klipsch X11s with comply tips for everything from cutting down trees with a chainsaw to mowing to working out to traveling on planes to studying and also at work. 
That said, I hate the cord and the dongle needed for the iPhone. Ugh. 

I’d really like to buy one TWS to deal with these situations and retain SQ. Just not sure where to go yet. 

the new Klipsch T10 that was announced at CES2020 look grand, but at a projected price of $650...no way I can drop that kind of cash on something that tiny and easy to lose!!!

PS...$1000 for the McLaren T10?  What.


----------



## base08

webvan said:


> Not on my Nokia 8 running Android 9, same as with the Bomaker, AAC does not "stick" and it's a "chirp" when I select it as opposed as a "silence+resume playing" when I select either SBC or aptX.
> 
> EDIT - Probably something to do with the interface though because with the AAC only Amazon Echo Buds the Bluetooth shows AAC but NOT the developer options.


This is what I got from the support of Bomaker:



 

One can for now on assume that at least the Bomaker Sifi equipped QCC3020 chipset does not support AAC. As for the other devices with the same chip, seems might still be a possibility that they are compatible according to the positive reports by people with those devices... Maybe it's an option within the chipset that can be activated or software implemented...

It's a pity that even the Bomaker Sifi's manual mentions their compatibility to AAC codec and even mentions iPhones...


----------



## audio123

For those who have asked me what is my preferred mode on the Geekfly GF8, it is mode 3. I like how it has the best overall balance - engaging, bodied & sparkly. Mode 1 is slightly too bright for my taste. Mode 2 has a more laid-back presentation. Cheers!


----------



## Caipirina

webvan said:


> How about the infamous "runner's thud" though ? Also have you tried the PBPs again ? You'd mentioned they didn't have the "thud" some time ago. I may give it a last attempt to find IEMs for running in noisier (or windier) environments than the stellar X12s can handle by getting the GGMM T1s and their PBP form factor...



the spunky beats have about the same thud as let’s say the Anbes 359. But truth be told, I noticed that I only get annoyed by the thud when I really focus on it. When I zone out in my run & the music I barely notice. 
As for the PBP, they are still thudless in my experience, but it appears that sometimes the fit creates ... not sure how to describe, since the earpieces are kinda ‘hanging’ inside the ear, they sometimes seems to ever so gently ‘rattle’ around .. I get some audible click from seal-no seal off and on. 
Curious what you think about the GGMM
Still think the x12 is best for absolute thudless running.


----------



## Odioer

Caipirina said:


> the spunky beats have about the same thud as let’s say the Anbes 359. But truth be told, I noticed that I only get annoyed by the thud when I really focus on it. When I zone out in my run & the music I barely notice.
> As for the PBP, they are still thudless in my experience, but it appears that sometimes the fit creates ... not sure how to describe, since the earpieces are kinda ‘hanging’ inside the ear, they sometimes seems to ever so gently ‘rattle’ around .. I get some audible click from seal-no seal off and on.
> Curious what you think about the GGMM
> Still think the x12 is best for absolute thudless running.


My SSKs have absolutely no thud. I thought they were 1-1 clone of anbes. Apparently SSK have done some r&d. Nice.


----------



## webvan (Jan 17, 2020)

No thud when running ? It seems impossible if you have a tight seal and the air is trapped in your ear canal !



Caipirina said:


> the spunky beats have about the same thud as let’s say the Anbes 359. But truth be told, I noticed that I only get annoyed by the thud when I really focus on it. When I zone out in my run & the music I barely notice.
> As for the PBP, they are still thudless in my experience, but it appears that sometimes the fit creates ... not sure how to describe, since the earpieces are kinda ‘hanging’ inside the ear, they sometimes seems to ever so gently ‘rattle’ around .. I get some audible click from seal-no seal off and on.
> Curious what you think about the GGMM
> Still think the x12 is best for absolute thudless running.


Thanks for the update on the PBP and the Spunky Beats. What bothered with the Anbes 359 (as well as the Bomakers or M5s) is that they start slipping when I run so I have to push them back into place, it's annoying. At least the Havit G1 have wings that keep them in place even if you can't expect a perfect seal to be maintained as if you were sitting at your desk. I'm going to give the GGMM T1s a little bit more thought before ordering them


----------



## Caipirina

webvan said:


> No thud when running ? It seems impossible if you have a tight seal and the air is trapped in your ear canal !
> 
> 
> Thanks for the update on the PBP and the Spunky Beats. What bothered with the Anbes 359 (as well as the Bomakers or M5s) is that they start slipping when I run so I have to push them back into place, it's annoying. At least the Havit G1 have wings that keep them in place even if you can't expect a perfect seal to be maintained as if you were sitting at your desk. I'm going to give the GGMM T1s a little bit more thought before ordering them


Someone here has those GGMMs and complained about the fit. 
I still need to write some observations on that one nameless pair of cheapos I mentioned before, thought they could be excellent running buds as the have semi open earpieces while using the PBP form factor. Unfortunately they just don’t get loud enough to use outdoors. The SQ is also not that great, but A for overall effort, interesting design (that case!) and if I am not mistaken, usb-c and volume control. All for 11$ 
Those guys (a15 tws)


----------



## Odioer

webvan said:


> No thud when running ? It seems impossible if you have a tight seal and the air is trapped in your ear canal !



The bass vent probably acts as a pressure release, even I was astonished how weird it felt running without any thump and ambient music. Something I too never thought was possible, hope someone else with a pair can confirm for assurance


----------



## Caipirina

Odioer said:


> My SSKs have absolutely no thud. I thought they were 1-1 clone of anbes. Apparently SSK have done some r&d. Nice.


I have to double check again, but I am pretty certain my ssk have the very same thud as my Anbes. Maybe your ears have a hidden vent hole?


----------



## cwill

cwill said:


> Does anyone have an extra set of SSK they'd be willing to sell me?


Bump. Anyone?


----------



## voicemaster

webvan said:


> How about the infamous "runner's thud" though ? Also have you tried the PBPs again ? You'd mentioned they didn't have the "thud" some time ago. I may give it a last attempt to find IEMs for running in noisier (or windier) environments than the stellar X12s can handle by getting the GGMM T1s and their PBP form factor...
> 
> One more attempt to get some feedback from T1X owners about any static (sound of RF interference, not the "white noise" of say the L2P) in the right ear, am I really the only one with this problem ? That would mean I got a dud


No static on my two t1xs.


----------



## webvan (Jan 17, 2020)

ok, thanks, just my luck then. I saw a "check for forgery" in the app but since all the features work I can't imagine it's the case (EDIT - I checked and the Serial was recognized). BTW I scanned the QR code on the box which took me to the FIIL site where they have the link for the Android App and it has indeed been pulled from the PlayStore, how very odd...



Odioer said:


> The bass vent probably acts as a pressure release, even I was astonished how weird it felt running without any thump and ambient music. Something I too never thought was possible, hope someone else with a pair can confirm for assurance


That would be something ! Let's see what @Caipirina finds with his own pair before I try to track one down


----------



## d3myz

Caipirina said:


> I knew someone else would get excited about accessorizing their APP (how many cases did you get so far? I have no idea what the hype is on AE with 'DHL' logo as a design choice, but somehow I needed THIS case   )
> 
> 
> 
> I am still holding off on those red tips, as they want to charge me over 3$ for shipping (might be my location being the issue). Waiting for more sellers to offer them


 This case has "Steal Me" written all over it. 



georgelai57 said:


> There can be problems with some of these APP cases. I have a silicon one where the hinge prevents you from using a wireless charger because the design prevents you from laying the whole thing flat against the charger. Then there are the hard types where when you open the case it puts unnecessary pressure on the APP’s own hinge.
> There was also one for the Sony WF-1000XM3 where its magnetic flap interfered with the auto power on of the earbuds.


 I have 3 silcone cases, different brands, they all work fine charging wirelessly. I do have to initially press one of them down to get it going, but I don't keep them in the case unless i'm taking them out with me. I hate how the silicone catches in my pocket. I've also noticed that the cases seems to have an effect on loosening the lid of the the APPs case. i'm on my second set and for some reason the silicone makes the top of the APPs case wiggle. I'm convinced the hinge on the APPs case just kind of sucks.



FYLegend said:


> How do you get an invite? Do they contact people they are familiar with as reviewers?
> The site still lists USB for the B530 Pro. I suspect they are leaving it for the Rimor and the new version (which might have AptX).


You can e-mail ida@tranya.com and ask to test the B530 Pro or the Rimor. I did notice Tranya's site says the B530 Pro comes with Micro-USB cable, but Amazon says it comes with a USB-C Cable. i'll also find out in a few hours when they arrive.




Bartig said:


> Ordered the TFZ Coco, Edifier TWS6, Wharfedale WPods, newest TaoTronics and the Geekfly in a single day. Only three via Amazon so I can send them back. Wth am I doing.


Sounds like Living your Best Life! 



voicemaster said:


> No static on my two t1xs.


 No Static on My FIIL's


----------



## d3myz

bronco1015 said:


> That's awesome. I'm gonna try them out on the bus i take to work later this morning then to see if passively they isolatew well enough for that. Are the touch controls on yours rediculously sensative?? i didn't spend a ton of time with the first pair, but i bought a pair as a christmas gift for my Friend's son and i felt like the touch panels on his were mor sensitiv haen on my pair. I make it a point to touch just the outter most edge of them while putting them in etc and 99% of the time theres no issue. Also, not a deal breaker, but i do wish the controls were reversed. e.g. volume up and rwnd on left instead of right.


 I really like my SB's. My only complaint is the touchpads are WAAAY to sensitive and they are so small that I hit them each time I insert them or remove them. The have a very clear tuning but at louder volumes they are a bit sharp. Great for audiobooks!


----------



## audio123

The top 2 TWS for ANC


----------



## go0gle

^ not after the latest firmware update on those airpods


----------



## Ooru

webvan said:


> One more attempt to get some feedback from T1X owners about any static (sound of RF interference, not the "white noise" of say the L2P) in the right ear, am I really the only one with this problem ? That would mean I got a dud


Got static on mine, but it doesn't sound like RF interference. Just a very slight hiss from the OpAmp trying to magnify sound on these tiny things. Probably just needs a little more resistance on the output circuit.

I only notice it if I'm paying attention and no music is playing. It's not audible otherwise.


----------



## SilverEars

Caipirina said:


> I knew someone else would get excited about accessorizing their APP (how many cases did you get so far? I have no idea what the hype is on AE with 'DHL' logo as a design choice, but somehow I needed THIS case   )
> 
> 
> 
> I am still holding off on those red tips, as they want to charge me over 3$ for shipping (might be my location being the issue). Waiting for more sellers to offer them


That's the coolest case I've ever seen! Where can I get a hand on one?


----------



## d3myz

audio123 said:


> The top 2 TWS for ANC


Which is sad, I own both and the APPs Transparency mode and ANC are much better than Sony's. I really hope that Sony really finds a way to boost the ambient noise, because it's really hard to hear people talk. My last pair of aAPPs were on the new firmware and they sounded about the same ANC wise as the Sony's.


----------



## webvan

Ooru said:


> Got static on mine, but it doesn't sound like RF interference. Just a very slight hiss from the OpAmp trying to magnify sound on these tiny things. Probably just needs a little more resistance on the output circuit.
> 
> I only notice it if I'm paying attention and no music is playing. It's not audible otherwise.


Thanks, it does sound different than mine, do you here the same "static" on the left ? I have a ticket open with geekbuying but they're going through the typical details/photos/videos requests, which of course is a problem for an issue like this one !


----------



## Ooru

webvan said:


> Thanks, it does sound different than mine, do you here the same "static" on the left ? I have a ticket open with geekbuying but they're going through the typical details/photos/videos requests, which of course is a problem for an issue like this one !



Good luck working with their support! I hope that all works out for you.

For mine, I'd say the static favors the right bud slightly more than the left, but overall they're pretty equal. The static goes away when no sound has gone through them in a while, presumably because they are going into a lower-power standby mode.


----------



## hifi80sman

webvan said:


> Not on my Nokia 8 running Android 9, same as with the Bomaker, AAC does not "stick" and it's a "chirp" when I select it as opposed as a "silence+resume playing" when I select either SBC or aptX.
> 
> EDIT - Probably something to do with the interface though because with the AAC only Amazon Echo Buds the Bluetooth shows AAC but NOT the developer options.


There have been issues I've seen posted with Nokia phones.  I don't have a Nokia, but it looks like it may be a common problem.  I have no problem connecting via AAC on my LG G6 or Samsung Galaxy s8.  Mind you, that's not with the Bomaker, but with the MPOW T5 that someone else was having issues connecting to via AAC (I think they had a Nokia phone as well).


----------



## d3myz (Jan 17, 2020)

Got the B530 Pro. They don't indicate anywhere they are the "PRO" model, but the box is updated and they say they have a Qualcomm w/AptX.  They have a micro usb port and i just listened to them for about 5 min.

Bass is great, super clean and prominent, but not Basshead, mids are full but a bit muffled in the low highs/high mids, highs have some nice sparkle but are a little on the bright side for me.
The left bud is a bit louder than the right . I'll burn them in this weekend and spend some more time with them. Also, the soundstage is nice and wide.
   

I just A/B'd them vs. FIIL T1X in Bass EQ. Save your money and get the FIIL. The tuning is much better balanced. I'm still going to burn the B530 Pro in, but Frankly it hurts my ears to turn it up. I tested them with the Same tips, which was a challenge because the B530's nozzle seems a bit smaller and a lot of my tips won't fit securely on them. I'm not saying they don't sound good, they do, but they are shouty on the high end and at louder volumes. At medium volume, they sound pretty dang good.


----------



## Caipirina

SilverEars said:


> That's the coolest case I've ever seen! Where can I get a hand on one?


https://a.aliexpress.com/_TzTJT

and there are matching phone cases 

https://a.aliexpress.com/_UF4Sz


----------



## Caipirina

d3myz said:


> This case has "Steal Me" written all over it.



JUst don't leave it out on the porch


----------



## FYLegend

d3myz said:


> Got the B530 Pro. They don't indicate anywhere they are the "PRO" model, but the box is updated and they say they have a Qualcomm w/AptX.  They have a micro usb port and i just listened to them for about 5 min.
> 
> Bass is great, super clean and prominent, but not Basshead, mids are full but a bit muffled in the low highs/high mids, highs have some nice sparkle but are a little on the bright side for me.
> The left bud is a bit louder than the right . I'll burn them in this weekend and spend some more time with them. Also, the soundstage is nice and wide.
> ...



Yikes, no USB Type-C despite them saying there will be, but I guess it was an error with the mail message. Not really surprised though, might as well wait for the newer Rimor...

Sucks about the audio imbalance though, it once again makes me unassured about my online purchases as all the TWS I bought from Aliexpress exhibited similar imbalance...


----------



## chinmie

https://www.androidcentral.com/wireless-headphone-future-needs-stronger-connection

this article is amusing for me. i don't think i ever complain about the connection of most of my TWSs in my collection right now. the last time i ever have crappy connection was the QCY Q29 from way long ago, and maybe some patchy but workable connection on the old WF-1000X and Anker Liberty Neo (which i believe now has an updated and improved version)

also battery life of TWSs has come a long way that it can reach 6 hours even with ANC on.


----------



## Caipirina

go0gle said:


> ^ not after the latest firmware update on those airpods



To be really honest, my brass ears did not notice until I read about it ... they still do a fine job at noise cancelling, but knowing now that it used to be even better is just nagging at me ...


----------



## Twinster

I would like to thanks this thread for bringing the NUARL N6 Pro to my attention.  I'm very impress with the sound, comfort and connection stability.


----------



## Caipirina (Jan 17, 2020)

Odioer said:


> My SSKs have absolutely no thud. I thought they were 1-1 clone of anbes. Apparently SSK have done some r&d. Nice.



I just did a 12K with the SSK and for me they definitely have the Thud™
But as mentioned earlier, I have learned to ignore / accept / live with that.


 

On a different note, I think I have not used those in the last 6-8 weeks, and while the case was out of battery, the buds still had 80% charge, connected without a hitch and did not have a single connection drop, even though I passed by the US embassy and some government facilities that must be radiating some jam signals that make other buds (and often my GPS) go haywire. Now, that's what I call a reliable TWS set.


----------



## chinmie

webvan said:


> No thud when running ? It seems impossible if you have a tight seal and the air is trapped in your ear canal !
> 
> 
> Thanks for the update on the PBP and the Spunky Beats. What bothered with the Anbes 359 (as well as the Bomakers or M5s) is that they start slipping when I run so I have to push them back into place, it's annoying. At least the Havit G1 have wings that keep them in place even if you can't expect a perfect seal to be maintained as if you were sitting at your desk. I'm going to give the GGMM T1s a little bit more thought before ordering them





Caipirina said:


> Someone here has those GGMMs and complained about the fit.
> I still need to write some observations on that one nameless pair of cheapos I mentioned before, thought they could be excellent running buds as the have semi open earpieces while using the PBP form factor. Unfortunately they just don’t get loud enough to use outdoors. The SQ is also not that great, but A for overall effort, interesting design (that case!) and if I am not mistaken, usb-c and volume control. All for 11$
> Those guys (a15 tws)



that would be me. now that i think of it, currently i might be the only one here to have it? 
beside the fit, it ticks all the other boxes for me. IPX7, great touch control, good connection range, 9 hours battery, nice sound, no/minimal thud, and can be turned on/off without the case (this is important for me, because i often carry TWS without the case). 
after i found the reversed foam tips hack, it fits nicely for me, and solve the only gripe i had on it. now it's one of my most used TWS for gym and running.

ps: it turns out i can only use foam tips on most of my IEMs reversed... so i guess it's the problem with my ears


----------



## assassin10000

Re-ordered the X12 pro...




And the E12 ultra to try too.


----------



## Caipirina

assassin10000 said:


> Re-ordered the X12 pro...
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Re-ordered as back up? How much did you pay? My re-order allegedly arrived in country  

 

Also found another look-alike, let's see how acceptable that one is  coupon knocked off another 1$


----------



## Caipirina (Jan 17, 2020)

Finally sharing some thoughts on the KZ S1 hybrids. Still wondering why I am so ambivalent towards these. They are perfectly fine, good even. Scarbir rates them as better than the previous T1 ... maybe I did not try enough AB-ing ... or I just have TWS fatigue.

At that price they sure are a steal. They don't have that nasty volume hump that the T1 are plagued with. The case looks & feels very cheap IMHO and can't even keep upright when lid is open  not a biggy, and it is more pocketable. Did I read somewhere that these have IPX4? Wondering because they seem to have some vent holes that the T1 do not have. Potential sweat ingress ports.

 

Not sure if I like this green/blue/teal color, it looks very different in different lights ... at least something new 

I have not fiddled with this game mode, but I am wondering what prevents this from being an 'always on' special? Maybe quality drops or it sucks more battery?


----------



## assassin10000

Caipirina said:


> Re-ordered as back up? How much did you pay? My re-order allegedly arrived in country



$37 on Amazon. I had returned my other pair as it had connectivity issues. This new pair doesn't last as long. My old pair would get me about 4.5 hours, this pair just gave the low battery warning at 3:40...

Not looking good. I fully charged both sides before testing. I'll give it another shot tomorrow as I really like the form factor.


----------



## Sam L

webvan said:


> How about the infamous "runner's thud" though ? Also have you tried the PBPs again ? You'd mentioned they didn't have the "thud" some time ago. I may give it a last attempt to find IEMs for running in noisier (or windier) environments than the stellar X12s can handle by getting the GGMM T1s and their PBP form factor...
> 
> One more attempt to get some feedback from T1X owners about any static (sound of RF interference, not the "white noise" of say the L2P) in the right ear, am I really the only one with this problem ? That would mean I got a dud



Sorry  I currently have two t1x's in my possession and neither have any static whatsoever.


----------



## SoundChoice

Caipirina said:


> Finally sharing some thoughts on the KZ S1 hybrids. Still wondering why I am so ambivalent towards these. They are perfectly fine, good even. Scarbir rates them as better than the previous T1 ... maybe I did not try enough AB-ing ... or I just have TWS fatigue.
> 
> At that price they sure are a steal. They don't have that nasty volume hump that the T1 are plagued with. The case looks & feels very cheap IMHO and can't even keep upright when lid is open  not a biggy, and it is more pocketable. Did I read somewhere that these have IPX4? Wondering because they seem to have some vent holes that the T1 do not have. Potential sweat ingress ports.
> 
> ...



Agree, these look and feel like cheap toys you’d find bleached in the sun abandoned in a trailer park. I haven’t heard them yet for I cannot find out how to pair them.


----------



## Caipirina

SoundChoice said:


> Agree, these look and feel like cheap toys you’d find bleached in the sun abandoned in a trailer park. I haven’t heard them yet for I cannot find out how to pair them.



Ha, actually I do not find them looking THAT cheap  I have some others that fit your description much better. 
But I can see how it must be irritating when you can't get them paired. especially those touch field TWS, where there's apparently no easy way to do a reset. Have you asked the seller to help out? I had some success with other buds that way (seller contacting manufacturer and relaying a complicated quintuple touch tap challenge for each bud which eventually reset them and let them pair successfully)

Personally I had zero issues with these ...


----------



## webvan

chinmie said:


> that would be me. now that i think of it, currently i might be the only one here to have it?
> beside the fit, it ticks all the other boxes for me. IPX7, great touch control, good connection range, 9 hours battery, nice sound, no/minimal thud, and can be turned on/off without the case (this is important for me, because i often carry TWS without the case).
> after i found the reversed foam tips hack, it fits nicely for me, and solve the only gripe i had on it. now it's one of my most used TWS for gym and running.
> 
> ps: it turns out i can only use foam tips on most of my IEMs reversed... so i guess it's the problem with my ears


That "reverse foam" setup is intriguing ! Do you still squish them before inserting or do you just let them rest against your ears and let the "arms" keep them pressed ?


----------



## chinmie

webvan said:


> That "reverse foam" setup is intriguing ! Do you still squish them before inserting or do you just let them rest against your ears and let the "arms" keep them pressed ?



i don't squish them, one of the factor is because the foams  I'm using is not very expensive and it expands too quick, so i just let it rest on the ear and adjust them a little. 
usually they would cover it nicely because of the wider and flatter surface of the reversed foams. it doesn't even need the hooks to help them stay in place.

in this reversed position, even if the seal breaks a little, the bass response would still be solid and the the mids won't become too tinny. so it's a bit like wearing earbuds


----------



## Caipirina (Jan 18, 2020)

Wanted to also share some thoughts on this rather unique 'cheapo' I received not too long ago. Disclaimer: I am not really recommending this peculiar unicorn to anyone other than hoarders (you know who you are!), collectors and those who appreciate 'something different' 


    

This is the first and only of this particular built I have seen. Kudos to the designers who created a set with earbud / semi open style buds on a hook form factor.
Even the case is an inspired (albeit not fully practical) design choice. With so many TWS looking the same, this is a breath of fresh air!
Also, when wearing, they look pretty exactly like the Powerbeats Pro, will try if I can get rid of that A logo with rubbing alcohol 
At that price it is amazing to find things so many other TWE manufacturers are missing out on, like USB-C charging port and volume control on the multi function button right on the earpiece (unlike the PBP, they do not have volume rocker buttons).
Now, there are some short comings: a) they don't get very loud. That, paired with minimal passive noise isolation makes them less than ideal for going outside. b) the bass is lacking, while the highs can get sparkly, which is great for ambient music / classical.
But overall the sound quality is what you expect for a 12$ set of buds. It tries to play bass, but utterly fails and becomes distorted. (But they are also not absolut trash, like some other cheapos I have tried) with the right music they are quite nice. 
On the positive side, they connect well and so far stay well connected. I kinda like wearing them around the house when sometimes I have to be able to talk to people. And when I am not listening to EDM style music.
Oh, and I added the foams myself, they do not come with them. It feels that it tames some of the distortion, makes the SQ a bit smoother. And it just feels better in the ear. And they still fit in the case with foams on.

Proceed at own risk, they can be found as A15 TWS ... or if you google that you can find the manufacturer's page and order a thousand pieces at a mere 5$   (per piece that is   )


----------



## Mouseman

d3myz said:


> Got the B530 Pro. They don't indicate anywhere they are the "PRO" model, but the box is updated and they say they have a Qualcomm w/AptX.  They have a micro usb port and i just listened to them for about 5 min.
> 
> Bass is great, super clean and prominent, but not Basshead, mids are full but a bit muffled in the low highs/high mids, highs have some nice sparkle but are a little on the bright side for me.
> The left bud is a bit louder than the right . I'll burn them in this weekend and spend some more time with them. Also, the soundstage is nice and wide.
> ...


If it still has micro, then I'm wondering what exactly has changed. Looking forward to some comparisons from people who have the original. I have it and really like it, but I'm not sure if I wasn't to take her up on the offer after those awful Rimors.


----------



## bronco1015

Caipirina said:


> Really not a fan of touch panels, totally prefer clicky buttons ... i need one touch alone to locate the center .. by then I already paused the music, or my phone is calling my dentist .. so, I kinda stay away from them. I tried a double tab while running which utterly failed, it was easier to touch my phone while keeping it in my running belt and sense for the volume buttons ...  can't say I find them extra fiddly, just as annoying as pretty much all other touch fields.


[ Yeah way easier to hit the touchpad consistently when one isn't running. i have noticed though that sometimes th touch panel is completely unresponsive or delayed. At Bartig mentioned in his review that sometimes they would either be to sensitive or delayed in responding. Still sq and fit, they blow the B530 pro out of the water. QUOTE="d3myz, post: 15422384, member: 185364"]Got the B530 Pro. They don't indicate anywhere they are the "PRO" model, but the box is updated and they say they have a Qualcomm w/AptX.  They have a micro usb port and i just listened to them for about 5 min.

Bass is great, super clean and prominent, but not Basshead, mids are full but a bit muffled in the low highs/high mids, highs have some nice sparkle but are a little on the bright side for me.
The left bud is a bit louder than the right . I'll burn them in this weekend and spend some more time with them. Also, the soundstage is nice and wide.
   

I just A/B'd them vs. FIIL T1X in Bass EQ. Save your money and get the FIIL. The tuning is much better balanced. I'm still going to burn the B530 Pro in, but Frankly it hurts my ears to turn it up. I tested them with the Same tips, which was a challenge because the B530's nozzle seems a bit smaller and a lot of my tips won't fit securely on them. I'm not saying they don't sound good, they do, but they are shouty on the high end and at louder volumes. At medium volume, they sound pretty dang good.[/QUOTE I can 2nd this. i resisted posting last night cause wanted to spend a good chunk of time listening to them, but listened to them when i woke up and still the same thing. For me it was like, hmm. what do these remind me of? Soundwise to me they are a slightly bassier and somehow shoutier version of the Tevi. I'm noticing that the left bud isn't always louder than the right for me. E.G. i was listening to marooned by Pink Floyd and at one point the right bud literally matched the volume of the left, almost like when you had some cheap wired pair where the wire would short out and you could make both work if you fiddled with the cable. These would be way easier to suggest if they were the same price as the Fiils.


----------



## bronco1015

chinmie said:


> https://www.androidcentral.com/wireless-headphone-future-needs-stronger-connection
> 
> this article is amusing for me. i don't think i ever complain about the connection of most of my TWSs in my collection right now. the last time i ever have crappy connection was the QCY Q29 from way long ago, and maybe some patchy but workable connection on the old WF-1000X and Anker Liberty Neo (which i believe now has an updated and improved version)
> 
> also battery life of TWSs has come a long way that it can reach 6 hours even with ANC on.


Ugh. i couldn't even finish reading it. What a whiny person. How do people have so many connection issues? i can think of 1, literally 1 pair of the 50 or so wired BT and TWS i've tried that had frequent studdering. That was the TWS meeAudio X10.
Also, BT not able to go through water? Don't tell that to the jabra Elite 65T i swam with for months before selling them, or the other twe's i've showered with and left my phone a good distance from the bathroom.


----------



## webvan (Jan 18, 2020)

Heard back from Geekbuying about my defective (RF static in the right ear) and they're not making good on their DOA policy so far, they're just offering a discount, about 40% of what I paid which isn't really very helpful...



chinmie said:


> i don't squish them, one of the factor is because the foams  I'm using is not very expensive and it expands too quick, so i just let it rest on the ear and adjust them a little.
> usually they would cover it nicely because of the wider and flatter surface of the reversed foams. it doesn't even need the hooks to help them stay in place.
> 
> in this reversed position, even if the seal breaks a little, the bass response would still be solid and the the mids won't become too tinny. so it's a bit like wearing earbuds


I've got to try these  And of course you still get better isolation when running than with the X12s ?


----------



## hifi80sman

bronco1015 said:


> [ Yeah way easier to hit the touchpad consistently when one isn't running. i have noticed though that sometimes th touch panel is completely unresponsive or delayed. At Bartig mentioned in his review that sometimes they would either be to sensitive or delayed in responding. Still sq and fit, they blow the B530 pro out of the water. QUOTE="d3myz, post: 15422384, member: 185364"]Got the B530 Pro. They don't indicate anywhere they are the "PRO" model, but the box is updated and they say they have a Qualcomm w/AptX.  They have a micro usb port and i just listened to them for about 5 min.
> 
> Bass is great, super clean and prominent, but not Basshead, mids are full but a bit muffled in the low highs/high mids, highs have some nice sparkle but are a little on the bright side for me.
> The left bud is a bit louder than the right . I'll burn them in this weekend and spend some more time with them. Also, the soundstage is nice and wide.
> ...


Sounds like the frequency response is off on the bud if they achieve the same perceived loudness on a certain songs.  In these cases, and mind you, I have no eividence here to prove it works, but I play the louder bud (not the softer one) at max volume for hours (usually 4 or so), then it seems to tame it and bring it into balance with the slightly softer bud.

A common problem with Chi-Fi units, unfortunately.  This is likely why some manufacturing runs are different than others, just pure consistency of QC and materials.  I'm sure there are some extra drivers lying around in the corner, and they're like "good enough!".


----------



## Bartig

d3myz said:


> Got the B530 Pro. They don't indicate anywhere they are the "PRO" model, but the box is updated and they say they have a Qualcomm w/AptX.  They have a micro usb port and i just listened to them for about 5 min.
> 
> Bass is great, super clean and prominent, but not Basshead, mids are full but a bit muffled in the low highs/high mids, highs have some nice sparkle but are a little on the bright side for me.
> The left bud is a bit louder than the right . I'll burn them in this weekend and spend some more time with them. Also, the soundstage is nice and wide.
> ...


This sounds 100% like the original Tranya B530.


----------



## Bartig (Jan 18, 2020)

Such a bummer! Looked forward to the first TWS from British speaker brand Wharfedale, but there is absolutely no possibility to activate the right earpiece. It’s a dud straight out of the box.

Even when outsourced to China, this has British manufacturing quality written all over it.


----------



## bronco1015

hifi80sman said:


> Sounds like the frequency response is off on the bud if they achieve the same perceived loudness on a certain songs.  In these cases, and mind you, I have no eividence here to prove it works, but I play the louder bud (not the softer one) at max volume for hours (usually 4 or so), then it seems to tame it and bring it into balance with the slightly softer bud.
> 
> A common problem with Chi-Fi units, unfortunately.  This is likely why some manufacturing runs are different than others, just pure consistency of QC and materials.  I'm sure there are some extra drivers lying around in the corner, and they're like "good enough!".


So when you've got the left bud at max volume, are you still using both at the same time and using an app that raises or lowers volume onn each side? similarly to an option with the ES100 app and others? Or do you just have the softer bud chilling in the case while the louder one is paired?
As far as QC with some companies, maybe the employees are like,
'driver matching?...what even is that? we're just putting these things together.


----------



## bubsdaddy

Caipirina said:


> Another PSA for fellow APP enthusiasts. A YouTube video brought to my attention the existence of 3rd party memory foam tips for the APP with a link to eBay where they can be had for 30$ for the set.
> Quick deep dive on AE reveals much better pricing and also sponge tips and color tips.
> 
> 
> ...




I modded mine with some old memory foam tips I had that I like to us on the UE TF10.


----------



## d3myz

Bartig said:


> This sounds 100% like the original Tranya B530.


I haven't A/B'd them yet, and I havent' tried AptX, but yea, from memory, they sound very similar.


----------



## vaaccess

Ok, so while I’d prefer ANC and CVC, since Bose still doesn’t have an ETA for the 700 TWS, and the APP SQ stinks, which models do a good job of passive isolation?  I am presuming I’ll have to try other tips than OEM and that’s ok. I just really want to cut the cord and not give up SQ. Are most going to have good isolation with good tips?

I use an iPhone X and at the moment the N6 Pro is the likely candidate.  If I buy them on Amazon are people successful with returning them if needed?  They don’t really speak to that from what I’ve seen. 

I’d be willing to spend up to $300 if it had ANC and CVC and a strong waterproof rating. 

In the mean time I’d like to keep it around $150 if I’m just getting isolation.


----------



## HiFlight

vaaccess said:


> Ok, so while I’d prefer ANC and CVC, since Bose still doesn’t have an ETA for the 700 TWS, and the APP SQ stinks, which models do a good job of passive isolation?  I am presuming I’ll have to try other tips than OEM and that’s ok. I just really want to cut the cord and not give up SQ. Are most going to have good isolation with good tips?
> 
> I use an iPhone X and at the moment the N6 Pro is the likely candidate.  If I buy them on Amazon are people successful with returning them if needed?  They don’t really speak to that from what I’ve seen.
> 
> ...


I returned my N6 Pro to Amazon via dropoff at Kohl's and received my full refund within 2 hours.  No problems at all.


----------



## asak

Bartig said:


> Such a bummer! Looked forward to the first TWS from British speaker brand Wharfedale, but there is absolutely no possibility to activate the right earpiece. It’s a dud straight out of the box.
> 
> Even when outsourced to China, this has British manufacturing quality written all over it.



I got some on the way, since they're selling it for almost no middleman price of $39 on Amazon. Definitely looking forward to it, and hoping they did some QC!


----------



## voicemaster

vaaccess said:


> Ok, so while I’d prefer ANC and CVC, since Bose still doesn’t have an ETA for the 700 TWS, and the APP SQ stinks, which models do a good job of passive isolation?  I am presuming I’ll have to try other tips than OEM and that’s ok. I just really want to cut the cord and not give up SQ. Are most going to have good isolation with good tips?
> 
> I use an iPhone X and at the moment the N6 Pro is the likely candidate.  If I buy them on Amazon are people successful with returning them if needed?  They don’t really speak to that from what I’ve seen.
> 
> ...


Never had any problem returning items on Amazon.


----------



## LunaVixen

Are there any adapters that turn regular IEMs wireless?


----------



## vaaccess

Thanks for the comments about returning TWS in general, I appreciate it. 

I told myself that I would stop analyzing and jump into the game, so ordered the Mifo 07 for $113 on amazon with a code I found on a YouTube review that ironically ended today. I should get them Friday so will post my thoughts in comparing them to my wired IEMs!

Thanks to everyone who contributes to the thread, I’ve spent so much time reading so many posts...!!!


----------



## Bartig

asak said:


> I got some on the way, since they're selling it for almost no middleman price of $39 on Amazon. Definitely looking forward to it, and hoping they did some QC!


Seriously? I paid 90 euros on the German Amazon. :-/


----------



## assassin10000

LunaVixen said:


> Are there any adapters that turn regular IEMs wireless?



Yes. 

TRN BT20 (aac, lower gain) or BT20S (aac, aptx, higher gain)
Fiio UTWS1 (rebadged TRN with volume control)
Fostex TM2 

Shure just announced the Aonic 215, which may work with other mmcx iems/earbuds.


----------



## voicemaster

Just received my mifo 07. In the picture, the case looks big but this thing is tiny. It is even tinnier than samsung galaxy buds case, tho it is quite heavy. 
Initial sound impression was very impressive especially the mids/vocal. Mid lover will love the sound this thing produce, it has a thicker mid than t1x but not overly thick like shure. The sound profile is more of mpow m5, but with more forward mid and much better detail and clarity. No sibilance on the treble either but it still airy. Bass is punchy and has enough rumble to it, but since it is a BA driver, it can't compete with t1x and TSB. If you are a basshead, this twe will not satisfy you. I am liking the sound profile and form factor so far. Will do more listening and testing.


----------



## voicemaster

vaaccess said:


> Thanks for the comments about returning TWS in general, I appreciate it.
> 
> I told myself that I would stop analyzing and jump into the game, so ordered the Mifo 07 for $113 on amazon with a code I found on a YouTube review that ironically ended today. I should get them Friday so will post my thoughts in comparing them to my wired IEMs!
> 
> Thanks to everyone who contributes to the thread, I’ve spent so much time reading so many posts...!!!



Mifo 07 sounds kinda remind me of my 1964 V6s.


----------



## clerkpalmer

voicemaster said:


> Mifo 07 sounds kinda remind me of my 1964 V6s.


Could you share the coupon code from YouTube?

Off topic, I went looking for some over ear ANC cans and found a B&O H8i at Best buy on clearance for 200. Given my use case I don't really need to go big like bose 700 for 400 bucks. So far they sound pretty good to very good and have a nice design. It was bit of an impulse purchase. Anyone have experience with them? I also found some Sony xm3 on Amazon "renewed" for 229. Would that be a better purchase? My focus would be trading ANC performance for SQ.


----------



## voicemaster (Jan 18, 2020)

clerkpalmer said:


> Could you share the coupon code from YouTube?
> 
> Off topic, I went looking for some over ear ANC cans and found a B&O H8i at Best buy on clearance for 200. Given my use case I don't really need to go big like bose 700 for 400 bucks. So far they sound pretty good to very good and have a nice design. It was bit of an impulse purchase. Anyone have experience with them? I also found some Sony xm3 on Amazon "renewed" for 229. Would that be a better purchase? My focus would be trading ANC performance for SQ.



I didn't use any code iirc. Someone in this forum was posting the mifo07 priced at $79 on amazon back then and I just ordered it right away. I have some amazon credit so I used that to bring the price down even more to $77. And now, the price has gone back to $149. Damn i got lucky there.


----------



## srinivasvignesh

Anyone wanting to let go of their bomaker sifi tws?


----------



## vaaccess (Jan 18, 2020)

clerkpalmer said:


> Could you share the coupon code from YouTube?



24mifo07 was the code. I used it from this seller who is selling it for $149: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B081Z1FWR1

Not as good as the $79 deal, but if they are as good as they seem to be from reviews, seemed like a good enough deal to me.


----------



## gibletzor

d3myz said:


> Got the B530 Pro. They don't indicate anywhere they are the "PRO" model, but the box is updated and they say they have a Qualcomm w/AptX.  They have a micro usb port and i just listened to them for about 5 min.
> 
> Bass is great, super clean and prominent, but not Basshead, mids are full but a bit muffled in the low highs/high mids, highs have some nice sparkle but are a little on the bright side for me.
> The left bud is a bit louder than the right . I'll burn them in this weekend and spend some more time with them. Also, the soundstage is nice and wide.
> ...


Aside from the sound quality, one of my favorite things about the original B530 is the fit.  They're soooo comfortable.  Are these the same exact shape?


----------



## HiFlight (Jan 18, 2020)

LunaVixen said:


> Are there any adapters that turn regular IEMs wireless?


Check out the TRN BT20 and BT20S.  The are also several other brands of similar design. 
I have both TRN models and enjoy both.


----------



## clerkpalmer

vaaccess said:


> 24mifo07 was the code. I used it from this seller who is selling it for $149: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B081Z1FWR1
> 
> Not as good as the $79 deal, but if they are as good as they seem to be from reviews, seemed like a good enough deal to me.


Thanks.


----------



## Caipirina

LunaVixen said:


> Are there any adapters that turn regular IEMs wireless?



TRN has 2 models out, the BT20 and BT20S and they come with different connectors (.75mm .78mm and MMCX) 

here’s a pic of what my KZ AS12 look like with the BT20


----------



## Caipirina

LunaVixen said:


> Are there any adapters that turn regular IEMs wireless?



those adapters only work on IEMs that plug into their wires. For full wired IEMs, you can use something like the Earstudio ES100


----------



## crimscrem

CocaCola15 said:


> Me too, but very infrequent. I really like the sound, sturdiness of the design. And I favor the click button vs the touch pad functionality. Not the only pair I own (have the L2P and an old pair of Tranya T1s too), but between the two, all good. Waiting for 2020 to see what new stuff comes along that may be worth it. May even buy a pair of Apple Airpod Pros, via Amazon Warehouse deals. But probably not.



I'm happy with them. The battery indicator issue I'm having really shouldn't be an issue if I just put them in the charging case when I'm done. Most of the time, I'm not going to have them in my ears for more than 3-4 hours at a time. I did hear back from CA's customer support. They are going to look into the issue. They did note that if using Apt-X, it'll shorten the battery life to around 6 hours. I haven't done a straight hours test, but I think I'm getting a bit over 6 hours.



webvan said:


> I didn't keep them as they were a terrible fit but in reading reviews on Amazon and elsewhere I remember many people complaining that they were getting nowhere near the advertized 9 hours but closer to 6 hours so yours are probably not defective...so I wouldn't hold my breath for a reply from CA, at least a useful one !



Yeah I can see the fit not working for many people. It works well enough for me.


----------



## Twinster (Jan 18, 2020)

I got the Nuarl N6 Pro yesterday’s and so far they are the best sounding TWS with my iPhone 11 Pro but only IPX4. I tried the APP and returned them after 3 days. My next choice is the new Noble Falcon. Sound pretty good too and with their deep insertion they provide great isolation and IPX7.

I also have the Sony wf-1000 first generation and Jabra Elite 65 and both are good but if sound is your priority, the Nuarl is the winner for me.




vaaccess said:


> Ok, so while I’d prefer ANC and CVC, since Bose still doesn’t have an ETA for the 700 TWS, and the APP SQ stinks, which models do a good job of passive isolation?  I am presuming I’ll have to try other tips than OEM and that’s ok. I just really want to cut the cord and not give up SQ. Are most going to have good isolation with good tips?
> 
> I use an iPhone X and at the moment the N6 Pro is the likely candidate.  If I buy them on Amazon are people successful with returning them if needed?  They don’t really speak to that from what I’ve seen.
> 
> ...


----------



## chinmie

voicemaster said:


> Just received my mifo 07. In the picture, the case looks big but this thing is tiny. It is even tinnier than samsung galaxy buds case, tho it is quite heavy.
> Initial sound impression was very impressive especially the mids/vocal. Mid lover will love the sound this thing produce, it has a thicker mid than t1x but not overly thick like shure. The sound profile is more of mpow m5, but with more forward mid and much better detail and clarity. No sibilance on the treble either but it still airy. Bass is punchy and has enough rumble to it, but since it is a BA driver, it can't compete with t1x and TSB. If you are a basshead, this twe will not satisfy you. I am liking the sound profile and form factor so far. Will do more listening and testing.



does your unit can control volume? also, can regular sized tips fit inside the case?


----------



## voicemaster

chinmie said:


> does your unit can control volume? also, can regular sized tips fit inside the case?


Yes it can control volume. No, need a short stem tips.


----------



## mikesider

chinmie said:


> https://www.androidcentral.com/wireless-headphone-future-needs-stronger-connection
> 
> this article is amusing for me. i don't think i ever complain about the connection of most of my TWSs in my collection right now. the last time i ever have crappy connection was the QCY Q29 from way long ago, and maybe some patchy but workable connection on the old WF-1000X and Anker Liberty Neo (which i believe now has an updated and improved version)
> 
> also battery life of TWSs has come a long way that it can reach 6 hours even with ANC on.[/QU


Well in my case I tried over-ears, on-ears and earbuds and I always have connection problems. I keep my phone in the left pocket of my pants, so I know it's not helping, but I can't wait to find some True Wireless with flawless connection.


----------



## voicemaster

mikesider said:


> Well in my case I tried over-ears, on-ears and earbuds and I always have connection problems. I keep my phone in the left pocket of my pants, so I know it's not helping, but I can't wait to find some True Wireless with flawless connection.


Fiil T1X is your answer.


----------



## chinmie

mikesider said:


> Well in my case I tried over-ears, on-ears and earbuds and I always have connection problems. I keep my phone in the left pocket of my pants, so I know it's not helping, but I can't wait to find some True Wireless with flawless connection.



may i ask what phone you're using? i use a Note 8 and honestly haven't encountered connection problems. i do got random disconnect, but it's really rare and far in between..except for the soundcore neo


----------



## voicemaster (Jan 19, 2020)

voicemaster said:


> Mifo 07 sounds kinda remind me of my 1964 V6s.


Actually, I take that back, Mifo 07 sounds similar to my old Westone 4. The bass is quite light and tight especially if you are coming from DD type of TWS. It doesn't have that bass slam like typical DD bass, but it is detailed and because of that, there isn't any bass bleed whatsoever with the other frequencies. The mid is the center of attention or focus here, if you like to listen to vocal or instrumental music (Diana Krall, Halie Loren, etc) this TWS really deliver on that. The mid is thicker than any other TWS that I have, but not overly thick that make it sounds fake. The treble is quite "polite" imho, it doesn't show any sign of sibilance or peak at all. Still pretty airy tho and the benefit is it is pretty comfortable for long listening session.
Connection is very good as I didn't experienced any drop out during my testing. Bluetooth range is not as good as my T1X, just average like mpow m5, sabbat E12U, and so on.
The case is the smallest of any tws besides apple airpods and it is made of metal.
Can't say about battery life and call quality yet as I haven't really checked.


----------



## hifi80sman

bronco1015 said:


> So when you've got the left bud at max volume, are you still using both at the same time and using an app that raises or lowers volume onn each side? similarly to an option with the ES100 app and others? Or do you just have the softer bud chilling in the case while the louder one is paired?
> As far as QC with some companies, maybe the employees are like,
> 'driver matching?...what even is that? we're just putting these things together.


I play it on my iPhone and flip the balance over to the bud I’m targeting.


----------



## FYLegend

d3myz said:


> Got the B530 Pro. They don't indicate anywhere they are the "PRO" model, but the box is updated and they say they have a Qualcomm w/AptX.  They have a micro usb port and i just listened to them for about 5 min.
> 
> Bass is great, super clean and prominent, but not Basshead, mids are full but a bit muffled in the low highs/high mids, highs have some nice sparkle but are a little on the bright side for me.
> The left bud is a bit louder than the right . I'll burn them in this weekend and spend some more time with them. Also, the soundstage is nice and wide.
> ...


An update, apparently on Amazon.ca they list "Upgraded B530" with Type C and AptX. Maybe they sent you a beta unit. I tried asking for clarification but the lightning sale is happening pretty soon...

Also, apparently there is an app to upgrade firmware for Jabees Firefly Pro and Firefly.2. It appears to have fixed the issue with ambient sound volume increasing after ending a call, but the voice now says "call ended". It also seems to have fixed.the SBC crackling but I will need to check this again tomorrow.


----------



## mikesider

chinmie said:


> may i ask what phone you're using? i use a Note 8 and honestly haven't encountered connection problems. i do got random disconnect, but it's really rare and far in between..except for the soundcore neo


I'm using a Pixel 2. I don't have any problems to connect to any devices, but I'm getting a lot of connection drops when I walk in the city, I'm guessing it's mostly due to Bluetooth interference.


----------



## Sam L

voicemaster said:


> Actually, I take that back, Mifo 07 sounds similar to my old Westone 4. The bass is quite light and tight especially if you are coming from DD type of TWS. It doesn't have that bass slam like typical DD bass, but it is detailed and because of that, there isn't any bass bleed whatsoever with the other frequencies. The mid is the center of attention or focus here, if you like to listen to vocal or instrumental music (Diana Krall, Halie Loren, etc) this TWS really deliver on that. The mid is thicker than any other TWS that I have, but not overly thick that make it sounds fake. The treble is quite "polite" imho, it doesn't show any sign of sibilance or peak at all. Still pretty airy tho and the benefit is it is pretty comfortable for long listening session.
> Connection is very good as I didn't experienced any drop out during my testing. Bluetooth range is not as good as my T1X, just average like mpow m5, sabbat E12U, and so on.
> The case is the smallest of any tws besides apple airpods and it is made of metal.
> Can't say about battery life and call quality yet as I haven't really checked.



mifo 07s reminding you of the Westone 4s? Sign me up. I'm a big fan of the westone house sound for modern classical recordings, but didnt appreciate how sensitive my westone iems were w/ smartphones, etc. (until i picked up an ifi attenuator).


----------



## voicemaster

Sam L said:


> mifo 07s reminding you of the Westone 4s? Sign me up. I'm a big fan of the westone house sound for modern classical recordings, but didnt appreciate how sensitive my westone iems were w/ smartphones, etc. (until i picked up an ifi attenuator).


Yes, especially the bass and treble. They are not exaggerated at all, this is probably the "flattest" sounding TWE I have yet. The mid is a little bit more forward than my Westone 4.


----------



## matthewhypolite

Hi all,

I just put up the below, have a read.

*True Wireless Headphone Comparison*


----------



## QBANIN

I'm looking for KINERA YH623 review. Anyone?


----------



## FYLegend

Hmm... Reminds me of the Jabra 65t never being addressed properly.


----------



## SilverEars

Here's a list of latency results from various iems.  Surprisingly, Momentum TW has the lowest latency.


----------



## TK33

SilverEars said:


> Here's a list of latency results from various iems.  Surprisingly, Momentum TW has the lowest latency.



Not too surprised. It does have Aptx LL. Not sure if any other true wireless has that.


----------



## Methos777

Quicky32 said:


> Amazon lightning deal on the Fiil T1X for $34...any good?


The FiiL t1x is the best earphone I have tried to date. I have the sennhesier, Sony’s , Bomakers, master And dynamics, Ankey, soundcore, Sabbats, E8, and creative outliers. If out of this world sound and comfort is what is needed with good battery life..there is no other choice better.


----------



## chinmie

FYLegend said:


> Hmm... Reminds me of the Jabra 65t never being addressed properly.




might be because to most folks they can't even notice those problems. i have encountered people, even in audio forum meets, that can't even detect channel imbalance. i wouldn't be surprised that many can't hear hiss in their headphones.. or maybe they do, but think that's normal


----------



## voicemaster

chinmie said:


> might be because to most folks they can't even notice those problems. i have encountered people, even in audio forum meets, that can't even detect channel imbalance. i wouldn't be surprised that many can't hear hiss in their headphones.. or maybe they do, but think that's normal


If someone still have a good hearing meaning that he/she can hear those 17khz+ frequency, the hiss probably will sound very annoying and piercing. For me, I can barely hear above 15khz, if I hear hiss on my iem, it probably won't be as annoying lol.


----------



## vaaccess

Methos777 said:


> The FiiL t1x is the best earphone I have tried to date.



Ok, I’ll give them a try. Getting this and the mifo 07 this week. Let the battle begin!


----------



## Sam L

Methos777 said:


> The FiiL t1x is the best earphone I have tried to date. I have the sennhesier, Sony’s , Bomakers, master And dynamics, Ankey, soundcore, Sabbats, E8, and creative outliers. If out of this world sound and comfort is what is needed with good battery life..there is no other choice better.



Don't disagree, but I think the appeal of the t1x's is the amazing value. The fiils are not replacing my sony's, mpow m5, jabra 65t anytime soon.


----------



## voicemaster

vaaccess said:


> Ok, I’ll give them a try. Getting this and the mifo 07 this week. Let the battle begin!


They have different sound signature, the t1x is more fun sounding tws while the 07 is more toward neutral. Both sounds really good.


----------



## turbobb

Re: the LG Tone Free, looks like a Chi-Fi unit beat it to the punch re: UV cleaning. This product was first listed on Amazon 7/25/19: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07VNLJV9M
What's interesting about this one though is that the blow-out diagram states that it utilizes a "tensilica hifi ep processor".

Invoking my google-fu led me to this pdf: https://ip.cadence.com/news/312/330...ome-Entertainment-and-Smartphone-Applications

A little more digging and I found this TWS that also boasts use of Tensilica hifi EP:
https://www.amazon.com/S1-Bluetooth-Headphones-Transmitter-Waterproof/dp/B07W81K941
This TWS looks identical to the Destek T1 that I recently purchased which features the QCC3020 (strangely all listing have been pulled from Amazon, but here's the mfr's product page: https://www.destekgear.com/destek-t...-playtime-with-1000mah-wireless-charging-case).

Plot twist though... this TWS also mentions tensilica but yet states that it uses Airoha's AB1532 chip (which is supposed to have its own built-in DSP):
https://www.rubilis.com/products/sa...eadphones-with-3300mah-charging-box-powerbank

Cadence has been around for a while and I'm wondering if they are starting to cater to the TWS world with their tensilica DSP offering. If so, guess we'll start seeing additional options aside from the typical Qualcomm, Airoha or Realtek chipsets that's prevalent in Chi-Fi units but not sure what benefits or key features they bring to the table. Anyone familiar with Cadence want to weigh in on this?


----------



## chinmie

voicemaster said:


> If someone still have a good hearing meaning that he/she can hear those 17khz+ frequency, the hiss probably will sound very annoying and piercing. For me, I can barely hear above 15khz, if I hear hiss on my iem, it probably won't be as annoying lol.



i think it's more because they simply don't notice it, not because they lack the hearing. usually if i point it out to them, then they'll notice it. i also topped off at around 15khz, but because i spend my younger years doing recording/mixing in a small studio (which involves a lot of cleaning up crackling and noises from the tracks), I'm a bit sensitive to that kind of noise and irregularities


----------



## FYLegend

chinmie said:


> might be because to most folks they can't even notice those problems. i have encountered people, even in audio forum meets, that can't even detect channel imbalance. i wouldn't be surprised that many can't hear hiss in their headphones.. or maybe they do, but think that's normal


So far I still haven't found a TWS without any floor noise. Back in the day there were some IEMs I enjoyed the sound but were very sensitive to hiss using a typical source (laptop or phone), like the ATH-IM70, so for me it was usually something I lived with. However, I do find most TWS I've tried have less hiss than these two examples. The Jabees Firefly Pro is probably the cleanest (though it's ambient hearthrough is another story), while Tronsmart Onyx Neo is probably the worst example I've tried (but still not dealbreaking as much as the channel imbalance).

The 65t was one product where imbalance + hiss was so apparent to many users on forums but no major reviewers reported it. The left bud hiss was only noticeable above a certain volume but for me the buds were way too low in volume before that.

PS Tranya on Amazon.ca confirmed to me B530 Pro is only microUSB, so any listings or reports otherwise are errors. Considering it's based off an older design I'm not really surprised but it would have been nice if they had corrected the listing _before_ the lightning sale this morning.

When Klipsch first revealed their budget S1 they listed USB-C by mistake on their site, but later confirmed it was only microUSB. On the other hand their T3 seems to come with USB Type-C despite previous reports saying otherwise.

Åtta Göra Liberté now listed on Amazon.ca:
https://www.amazon.ca/gp/product/B0...65b129fdd73&pf_rd_r=D70F3T46W3YYE3SQY1WD&th=1

Is anyone gonna try Song X? Really dig the aesthetics but no AptX or volume control keeps me hanging.

The Noise XO is another promising option with a similar design but so far only available in India. It has USB-C, Qi charging, AptX and volume controls.
https://www.amazon.in/Noise-Wireless-Headphones-Charging-Metallic/dp/B083SNSLZW

Has anyone here received their MPOW M8 or M7 yet? I recall at least one person here was awaiting the M7.


----------



## voicemaster

FYLegend said:


> So far I still haven't found a TWS without any floor noise. Back in the day there were some IEMs I enjoyed the sound but were very sensitive to hiss using a typical source (laptop or phone), like the ATH-IM70, so for me it was usually something I lived with. However, I do find most TWS I've tried have less hiss than these two examples. The Jabees Firefly Pro is probably the cleanest (though it's ambient hearthrough is another story), while Tronsmart Onyx Neo is probably the worst example I've tried (but still not dealbreaking as much as the channel imbalance).
> 
> The 65t was one product where imbalance + hiss was so apparent to many users on forums but no major reviewers reported it. The left bud hiss was only noticeable above a certain volume but for me the buds were way too low in volume before that.
> 
> ...



The Fiil t1x has pretty low floor noise and also the mifo 07 is even lower imho.


----------



## chinmie

FYLegend said:


> So far I still haven't found a TWS without any floor noise. Back in the day there were some IEMs I enjoyed the sound but were very sensitive to hiss using a typical source (laptop or phone), like the ATH-IM70, so for me it was usually something I lived with. However, I do find most TWS I've tried have less hiss than these two examples. The Jabees Firefly Pro is probably the cleanest (though it's ambient hearthrough is another story), while Tronsmart Onyx Neo is probably the worst example I've tried (but still not dealbreaking as much as the channel imbalance).
> 
> The 65t was one product where imbalance + hiss was so apparent to many users on forums but no major reviewers reported it. The left bud hiss was only noticeable above a certain volume but for me the buds were way too low in volume before that.
> 
> ...



The only TWS i have that has noticable background noise is the QCY T1C, and that's not a hiss sound, but rather like a bleeping/electronic signal sound that's  really faint.

Not counting my BT20S combo when paired to sensitive IEMs though... now that is straight and traditional sounding white noise hiss


----------



## Bhelpoori

SilverEars said:


> Here's a list of latency results from various iems.  Surprisingly, Momentum TW has the lowest latency.


Isn't this just a codec selection test, apart from Apple shaving 70+ms off AAC (assuming they selected AAC in the test)? The MTW have selected AptX LL so look good but if they selected AAC wouldn't they'd be in the 250ms group? And similarly with SBC (Jaybird) for all of them? Assuming we ignore a say 50ms variation for various reasons between different implementations...


----------



## SilverEars

Bhelpoori said:


> Isn't this just a codec selection test, apart from Apple shaving 70+ms off AAC (assuming they selected AAC in the test)? The MTW have selected AptX LL so look good but if they selected AAC wouldn't they'd be in the 250ms group? And similarly with SBC (Jaybird) for all of them? Assuming we ignore a say 50ms variation for various reasons between different implementations...


I have no idea what codec they selected.  I should look into and see if they provide further details on their methodology.  But, it makes sense they'd use the quickest codec with MTW being so fast.


----------



## Quicky32

After escalating my case twice with several emails and phone calls, Anker issued a refund.  I’m glad they did the right thing after I made a mistake of shipping to the wrong location.


----------



## Odioer

Quicky32 said:


> After escalating my case twice with several emails and phone calls, Anker issued a refund.  I’m glad they did the right thing after I made a mistake of shipping to the wrong location.


Good for you, now buy another tws


----------



## Burgerbassist

Has anyone had a chance to try the Cleer Ally Plus yet? I've been looking for reviews, but I've come up empty-handed so far.


----------



## Ooru

Anyone use different tips on their T1x's? I've been using the stock medium tips, but my ears aren't big enough for the wings.

I'm considering buying Spinfits; how do they sound when using the Bass or Metal EQ's? Will they be extra floppy with that flexible throat, since I can't really "lock" the buds in place with the wings?


----------



## voicemaster

Ooru said:


> Anyone use different tips on their T1x's? I've been using the stock medium tips, but my ears aren't big enough for the wings.
> 
> I'm considering buying Spinfits; how do they sound when using the Bass or Metal EQ's? Will they be extra floppy with that flexible throat, since I can't really "lock" the buds in place with the wings?



You don't have to use the wings tbh. I don't use mine and it fits just fine for me even when doing activities.


----------



## mikesider

voicemaster said:


> Fiil T1X is your answer.


I would like to try them but I can only order them on AliExpress from Canada, they cost near 100$ CAD (75$ USD) and I'm not sure about the returns on AE, if I have connection issues again.


----------



## Barusu Lamperouge

Got myself a Tantio W1 Pro which retails for ~$20 and goes to as low as $17 during sales. It has aptx and qcc 3020 chip. Don't know if anyone has had a chance to try it but it looks a lot similar to wavefun aptx buds. Now, I had QCY QS2 as my earlier TWS buds and for the same price they were superb. But these W1 Pro's blow them out of the water in every way possible. These tws have a deep rumbling bass, crisp and clear mids, and rolled off highs. It's more or less a U-shape tuning to my ears. I listen to them at approximately 50-55% volume and they are as loud as my TRN BT20S setup at similar volumes.

Moreover, they matchup to my TRN BT20S+Tennmak Pro setup in terms of SQ. Noise isolation is average but expecting much will be being super greedy. And, the best part of these iems is that the case is very friendly to tip rolling. It even accepts large sized wide bore tips like Tennmak whirlwinds. Currently, I'm using them with some double flange tips from AliExpress. In the sub $30 realm, I think they're very good for casual listening. Didn't find any impressions on these in the thread via casual search so posting it for all members. YMMV and Happy listening.

P.S. - I'm in no way associated to Tantio or anyone. I bought them during December sale from my own pocket.

Link for everyone's reference - https://m.aliexpress.com/item/33056271095.html


----------



## FYLegend

mikesider said:


> I would like to try them but I can only order them on AliExpress from Canada, they cost near 100$ CAD (75$ USD) and I'm not sure about the returns on AE, if I have connection issues again.


There's also Geekbuying where they're currently 65$. They claim they are QCC3020 which seems to be an error. Not sure what's the shipping difference between using Hong Kong and China. My Tronsmart Onyx Neo on Aliexpress was shipped via Geekbuying and it took 3 weeks.


----------



## Francesco Montanari

FYLegend said:


> There's also Geekbuying where they're currently 65$. They claim they are QCC3020 which seems to be an error. Not sure what's the shipping difference between using Hong Kong and China. My Tronsmart Onyx Neo on Aliexpress was shipped via Geekbuying and it took 3 weeks.



You can grab a coupon of 7$ for geekbuying. Just bought from Italian warehouse 57€

https://promotion.geekbuying.com/promotion/top_coupons


----------



## Bartig (Jan 20, 2020)

Dani157 said:


> Got myself a Tantio W1 Pro which retails for ~$20 and goes to as low as $17 during sales. It has aptx and qcc 3020 chip. Don't know if anyone has had a chance to try it but it looks a lot similar to wavefun aptx buds. Now, I had QCY QS2 as my earlier TWS buds and for the same price they were superb. But these W1 Pro's blow them out of the water in every way possible. These tws have a deep rumbling bass, crisp and clear mids, and rolled off highs. It's more or less a U-shape tuning to my ears. I listen to them at approximately 50-55% volume and they are as loud as my TRN BT20S setup at similar volumes.
> 
> Moreover, they matchup to my TRN BT20S+Tennmak Pro setup in terms of SQ. Noise isolation is average but expecting much will be being super greedy. And, the best part of these iems is that the case is very friendly to tip rolling. It even accepts large sized wide bore tips like Tennmak whirlwinds. Currently, I'm using them with some double flange tips from AliExpress. In the sub $30 realm, I think they're very good for casual listening. Didn't find any impressions on these in the thread via casual search so posting it for all members. YMMV and Happy listening.
> 
> ...


Heh, I bought the same for 13 euros/ 15 dollars on Ali, and at one time, there even was another generic branded version costing only 11 dollars. They sound fine if you like a big fat bass, mostly. They're pretty great for a generic brand.




Meanwhile, I think this may interest some of you. I just published my review on the Kinera YH623 - Kinera's first wireless earbuds - and hey, look at the shape of that case and earbuds.


----------



## hifi80sman

Burgerbassist said:


> Has anyone had a chance to try the Cleer Ally Plus yet? I've been looking for reviews, but I've come up empty-handed so far.


I've thought about those, but they have very minimal controls, which I think is limited to pause/play and answer/end calls!  That's just terrible.  I'm not sure who thought that's a great idea, but "cleerly" (pun intended) it's not a limitation of TWS technology (I think they use a Qualcomm SoC).


----------



## hifi80sman

mikesider said:


> I would like to try them but I can only order them on AliExpress from Canada, they cost near 100$ CAD (75$ USD) and I'm not sure about the returns on AE, if I have connection issues again.


Honestly, returns are a pain.  I never buy anything on AE unless I know I'm not going to return.  I purchased some "super soft memory foam" earpads for $7 that turned out to be super hard not memory foam earpads.  Meh, chalk it up to a calculated loss.


----------



## go0gle

chinmie said:


> might be because to most folks they can't even notice those problems. i have encountered people, even in audio forum meets, that can't even detect channel imbalance. i wouldn't be surprised that many can't hear hiss in their headphones.. or maybe they do, but think that's normal



I can hear it when there’s no music playing, but it doesn’t bother me one bit. The SQ more than makes up for it.


----------



## Burgerbassist

hifi80sman said:


> I've thought about those, but they have very minimal controls, which I think is limited to pause/play and answer/end calls!  That's just terrible.  I'm not sure who thought that's a great idea, but "cleerly" (pun intended) it's not a limitation of TWS technology (I think they use a Qualcomm SoC).



Yeah, you might be right.  I read a lot about them, and I could swear the "plus" model added track change, but looking at the manual I don't see that.  It looks like the new version does have volume control, at least, but you'd think track change would be a no-brainer.  The ANC, Fast Pair, and the move from a 5.8mm to a 10mm driver are intriguing, but I don't know that it's worth the $200 investment, at least until I can order from somewhere like Amazon where returns are guaranteed and not a pain.


----------



## FYLegend

AUFO M1 is 50$ on Amazon.ca now. 
https://www.amazon.ca/Aufo-Headphon...082WR83B9/ref=cm_cr_arp_d_product_top?ie=UTF8

There's many positive reviews but I recall they were asking for beta testers and refunding people on Facebook. Would be nice to know how they compare to others instead of people just saying "they sound good". I did see one recent YouTube review by Rjey Tech where he says their volume and isolation low and the transparency mode is poor.


----------



## FYLegend

go0gle said:


> I can hear it when there’s no music playing, but it doesn’t bother me one bit. The SQ more than makes up for it.


The sneaky thing is that some Bluetooth devices attempt to shut down the noise floor when no music is playing, so you won't really notice it until you listen to music with a lot of silence.  It also becomes noticeable when browsing a website with an autoplay video (even when muted, you can hear the hiss being output). This was never really noticeable on my wired headphones. Because video and audio editors sometimes use the audio stream constantly, they will keep that static on. You can use this to your advantage if your headphone has an annoying "auto power-off" (as the case with Dyplay Urban Traveller 2.0, not sure if any TWS have this quirk when connected).


----------



## webvan

I'm not sure why it's more noticeable on some TWEs than on others, at least on the L2Ps it's similar on both sides, on the M5s it's more pronounced on the right...or on the left depending on the unit (right on my first one and left on my replacement unit), on the T1X it's on the right with some "static" (think RF interference) thrown in, but I seem to have a dud.


----------



## Ooru

webvan said:


> I'm not sure why it's more noticeable on some TWEs than on others, at least on the L2Ps it's similar on both sides, on the M5s it's more pronounced on the right...or on the left depending on the unit (right on my first one and left on my replacement unit), on the T1X it's on the right with some "static" (think RF interference) thrown in, but I seem to have a dud.


Yeah, I forgot to mention in my previous reply that my right T1x bud sometimes has a high-pitched squeal during silence. Again, not noticeable when music is playing (and I still think the SQ on these things is fantastic), but I have noticed it on occasion.


----------



## tma6

Has anyone heard about or tried the Cowin BT318?? They advertise ANC and cost around $76 w coupon right now, but I’m a bit skeptical. 

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07WRFQHRN/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_GLIjEbTRX0SY8


----------



## chinmie

FYLegend said:


> The sneaky thing is that some Bluetooth devices attempt to shut down the noise floor when no music is playing, so you won't really notice it until you listen to music with a lot of silence.  It also becomes noticeable when browsing a website with an autoplay video (even when muted, you can hear the hiss being output). This was never really noticeable on my wired headphones. Because video and audio editors sometimes use the audio stream constantly, they will keep that static on. You can use this to your advantage if your headphone has an annoying "auto power-off" (as the case with Dyplay Urban Traveller 2.0, not sure if any TWS have this quirk when connected).



Yup, browsing through facebook or instagram with the video muted would trigger those hiss on noisy TWS.
The best way to hear the noise floor on the phone is by pressing the volume rocker when music is not playing (triggering the ringtone volume setting). On a noisy TWS or other bluetooth audio device, we would hear those "psst" sound for a few seconds before the system silence it again.


----------



## Sam L (Jan 20, 2020)

Guys... (and gals?) what's next? Any suggestions? I've been constantly thinking of picking up a pair of mw07 pluses ever since they came out... a really persistent itch and it's annoying me to death. I've also been thinking of just putting a pause on TWEs for a bit...


----------



## Juneway

Spamateur said:


> I noticed last night that the regular N6 has driver flex in the right earpiece when inserting, but I haven't had issues when moving my jaw around. I also have found the N6 Pro doesn't have any driver flex.


However my n6 pro have some driver flex issue on its left bud when using spinfit buds. The call quality on these are also not very good especially when using it outside, feedback from my friends they say they can't hear me even when I am speaking normally.


----------



## Sam L

wondering if this is someone in this thread? If it is, good job. Excellent review.


----------



## Juneway (Jan 20, 2020)

Any recommendation for a earbud that is similiar price range as the nuarl n6 pro, which has aptx tws mode and battery life about 8 hrs without driver flex issue? Oh yes, good call quality too.


----------



## jant71 (Jan 20, 2020)

Still no Edifier NB adopters?? Only 3 real decent reviews but they all said the ANC was better than APP and a few said the SQ is equal to L2P. One or two said better than the Liberty 2 Pro but I'll only take it as an "on par with". What's the turn off? No volume control maybe. Fit, same as L2P it seems just slightly stick out more(so the size perhaps?). Because they weren't on Amazon (they are now)? Figured there would be some adopters by now.


----------



## Sam L

Been in a loud coffeehouse much of the afternoon. The Amazon Echo Buds cut the noise wonderfully but that's mostly because the passive isolation is great. To be honest, in this setting, they perform pretty much on par with my wf-1000xm3 (Jan 15 firmware). But I still hold to my earlier point that the echo buds are the most non-dual-BA earphones I've heard to date, and to be frank it annoys me to death.

- the bass on these things is overwhelming, even when turned down via the in-app eq which tames things a bit but at the expense of overall coherence. 
- the trebles are weird -- present (very present), but lacking resolution and extension
- mids are, for dual BAs a tad recessed, not bad but not great.


----------



## Twinster

Juneway said:


> Any recommendation for a earbud that is similiar price range as the nuarl n6 pro, which has aptx tws mode and battery life about 8 hrs without driver flex issue? Oh yes, good call quality too.



‘The Noble Falcon are rated IPX7, they are about $160 and call quality is above average. They have a balanced sound signature.


----------



## Juneway (Jan 20, 2020)

Twinster said:


> ‘The Noble Falcon are rated IPX7, they are about $160 and call quality is above average. They have a balanced sound signature.


Hmm... Any other recommendations? I tried the falcon, dont really like the design. It looks like creative outlier series. For sound wise looking for something like the liberty  2 pro, but without the annoying hiss.


----------



## HiFlight

I received the FllL T1x today after returning both the N6Pro and L2P primarily due to fit and seal issues.  So far, I consider the T1x to be an absolute steal for less than $50.  The touchpads are responding flawlessly, isolation is superb and best of all, the SQ is, to my ears, excellent.  The FllL+ app is working well and offers a choice of 15 different EQ presets although as yet there is no option for creating a custom preset.  So far, connectivity has been flawless.  My only real wish would be for a selectable pass-through mode.  Due to the level of isolation, it is difficult to hear outside conversation even when the music is paused.  Having sampled all of the presets, I finally settled on the default although I can see myself experimenting with the various presets with different music genre's.  To summarize, buy them!


----------



## tma6 (Jan 20, 2020)

Sam L said:


> wondering if this is someone in this thread? If it is, good job. Excellent review.



Haha yeah that’s me, I posted it earlier on this thread too. Thanks!


----------



## voicemaster

Sound really good with mifo 07.


----------



## Barusu Lamperouge

Bartig said:


> Heh, I bought the same for 13 euros/ 15 dollars on Ali, and at one time, there even was another generic branded version costing only 11 dollars. They sound fine if you like a big fat bass, mostly. They're pretty great for a generic brand.
> 
> 
> 
> Meanwhile, I think this may interest some of you. I just published my review on the Kinera YH623 - Kinera's first wireless earbuds - and hey, look at the shape of that case and earbuds.



It is for casual listening and at that price point it's competing strongly against some wired devices. Wow! These kinera look cool.


----------



## SoundChoice

Ooru said:


> Anyone use different tips on their T1x's? I've been using the stock medium tips, but my ears aren't big enough for the wings.
> 
> I'm considering buying Spinfits; how do they sound when using the Bass or Metal EQ's? Will they be extra floppy with that flexible throat, since I can't really "lock" the buds in place with the wings?


New Bee green silicon was the magic one for me.. seal, sound and fits in case.


----------



## hifi80sman

Burgerbassist said:


> Yeah, you might be right.  I read a lot about them, and I could swear the "plus" model added track change, but looking at the manual I don't see that.  It looks like the new version does have volume control, at least, but you'd think track change would be a no-brainer.  The ANC, Fast Pair, and the move from a 5.8mm to a 10mm driver are intriguing, but I don't know that it's worth the $200 investment, at least until I can order from somewhere like Amazon where returns are guaranteed and not a pain.


Oh, the PLUS version...totally misread that.  Yes, I was curious about those as well, but they seemed to just fall silent.  I haven't seen anything regarding availability and it looks like they were slated for Oct. 2019.


----------



## Sunstealer

@Bartig
Many thanks for your website!

Just ordered a pair of Bomaker Siri from Amazon UK @ £29 - limited deal, it says. I'll be using them for podcasts rather than dedicated music so will be happy with a balanced sound.


----------



## webvan

For those thinking about ordering the T1X from Geekbuying, a word of warning, they are not wanting to honor their DOA policy so far, just offering a partial refund "due to time and cost of return"...I'm making a last attempt before filing a claim with Paypal.



Sam L said:


> Been in a loud coffeehouse much of the afternoon. The Amazon Echo Buds cut the noise wonderfully but that's mostly because the passive isolation is great. To be honest, in this setting, they perform pretty much on par with my wf-1000xm3 (Jan 15 firmware). But I still hold to my earlier point that the echo buds are the most non-dual-BA earphones I've heard to date, and to be frank it annoys me to death.
> 
> - the bass on these things is overwhelming, even when turned down via the in-app eq which tames things a bit but at the expense of overall coherence.
> - the trebles are weird -- present (very present), but lacking resolution and extension
> - mids are, for dual BAs a tad recessed, not bad but not great.



Actually I think that the passive+ANR combo makes for the best noise isolating TWEs out there based on my experience with the LTA+, APP and Sonys. I quite like the sound signature and especially the deep bass, the soundstage could be better...but I have the L2Ps for that  I've read about a new 306714878 firmware here https://www.amazonforum.com/s/question/0D54P000071nOeFSAU/echo-buds-firmware-306714878-sound-change that apparently reduces the bass so you might like that...and me not so much. Mine have not updated yet. They've added volume control too apparently.


----------



## Bartig

Sunstealer said:


> @Bartig
> Many thanks for your website!
> 
> Just ordered a pair of Bomaker Siri from Amazon UK @ £29 - limited deal, it says. I'll be using them for podcasts rather than dedicated music so will be happy with a balanced sound.


I have just the feeling you will use them for music too.


----------



## david8613

Fully enjoying my tranya t3, anbes 359, and tranya b530, awesome sound for budget truewireless great sound, very nice connection and reliable too they just work nicely no issues. What is the latest and greatest budget truewireless buds everyone is buying now? Anything new I should be looking at????


----------



## base08

david8613 said:


> Fully enjoying my tranya t3, anbes 359, and tranya b530, awesome sound for budget truewireless great sound, very nice connection and reliable too they just work nicely no issues. What is the latest and greatest budget truewireless buds everyone is buying now? Anything new I should be looking at????


 In one word: buytheFIILT1x!


----------



## Bartig

base08 said:


> In one word: buytheFIILT1x!


Yes.


----------



## david8613

base08 said:


> In one word: buytheFIILT1x!



It looks there is 2 generations which ones? And what's the lowest price you have seen them go for?


----------



## voicemaster

david8613 said:


> It looks there is 2 generations which ones? And what's the lowest price you have seen them go for?


The T1X not the T1. The lowest I've seen was $34 on amazon US.


----------



## jlcsoft

david8613 said:


> Fully enjoying my tranya t3, anbes 359, and tranya b530, awesome sound for budget truewireless great sound, very nice connection and reliable too they just work nicely no issues. What is the latest and greatest budget truewireless buds everyone is buying now? Anything new I should be looking at????


I think the best budget right now is the tronsmart spunky beat, I got it by 20,5€ in alixpress, and it sounds great, I also have the t3.


----------



## Toom

Anyone got the Jabra 75t and can compare to the Active 65t?


----------



## Caipirina (Jan 21, 2020)

Bartig said:


> Kinera's first wireless earbuds - and hey, look at the shape of that case and earbuds.



Are we supposed to recognize those? I am drawing a blank ...

Edit: after checking more pictures I am seeing it now. Fancy purple though.


----------



## Caipirina

base08 said:


> In one word: buytheFIILT1x!



I really feel like I am missing out! The most talked about TWS in the last few weeks (Bomaker Sifi and the Fiil T1X) are not easy or too expensive to get when one has no access to amazon, preferably amazon US ... 
Not shelling out 70+ $ when I know there are lightning deals when they can be had for 34$ ... 

Anyone from the US flying to Sri Lanka anytime soon?


----------



## Caipirina

Dani157 said:


> Got myself a Tantio W1 Pro which retails for ~$20 and goes to as low as $17 during sales. It has aptx and qcc 3020 chip. Don't know if anyone has had a chance to try it but it looks a lot similar to wavefun aptx buds. Now, I had QCY QS2 as my earlier TWS buds and for the same price they were superb. But these W1 Pro's blow them out of the water in every way possible. These tws have a deep rumbling bass, crisp and clear mids, and rolled off highs. It's more or less a U-shape tuning to my ears. I listen to them at approximately 50-55% volume and they are as loud as my TRN BT20S setup at similar volumes.
> 
> Moreover, they matchup to my TRN BT20S+Tennmak Pro setup in terms of SQ. Noise isolation is average but expecting much will be being super greedy. And, the best part of these iems is that the case is very friendly to tip rolling. It even accepts large sized wide bore tips like Tennmak whirlwinds. Currently, I'm using them with some double flange tips from AliExpress. In the sub $30 realm, I think they're very good for casual listening. Didn't find any impressions on these in the thread via casual search so posting it for all members. YMMV and Happy listening.
> 
> ...


At that price sure interesting! But I am realizing that I am using my wavefun not as often as I had anticipated... and just seeing that even the original wavefun are down at 23$ by now


----------



## Sam L

Juneway said:


> Any recommendation for a earbud that is similiar price range as the nuarl n6 pro, which has aptx tws mode and battery life about 8 hrs without driver flex issue? Oh yes, good call quality too.



To be honest, good call quality is a deal breaker. Apple spoiled TWS call quality forever. I've been on the hunt for your same specs forever. We just aren't there yet.


webvan said:


> For those thinking about ordering the T1X from Geekbuying, a word of warning, they are not wanting to honor their DOA policy so far, just offering a partial refund "due to time and cost of return"...I'm making a last attempt before filing a claim with Paypal.
> 
> 
> 
> Actually I think that the passive+ANR combo makes for the best noise isolating TWEs out there based on my experience with the LTA+, APP and Sonys. I quite like the sound signature and especially the deep bass, the soundstage could be better...but I have the L2Ps for that  I've read about a new 306714878 firmware here https://www.amazonforum.com/s/question/0D54P000071nOeFSAU/echo-buds-firmware-306714878-sound-change that apparently reduces the bass so you might like that...and me not so much. Mine have not updated yet. They've added volume control too apparently.



ahh... thx for the info. I'll update my firmware and give it a spin. I might end up keeping these because the alexa integration is actually pretty slick.


----------



## Sam L

Caipirina said:


> I really feel like I am missing out! The most talked about TWS in the last few weeks (Bomaker Sifi and the Fiil T1X) are not easy or too expensive to get when one has no access to amazon, preferably amazon US ...
> Not shelling out 70+ $ when I know there are lightning deals when they can be had for 34$ ...
> 
> Anyone from the US flying to Sri Lanka anytime soon?



Yeah, sorry, I feel for you. The Fiils are a great deal at $34, but I don't know if I would pay $70+ for them personally.


----------



## webvan

Sam L said:


> To be honest, good call quality is a deal breaker. Apple spoiled TWS call quality forever. I've been on the hunt for your same specs forever. We just aren't there yet.
> 
> 
> ahh... thx for the info. I'll update my firmware and give it a spin. I might end up keeping these because the alexa integration is actually pretty slick.



I don't see a way of forcing a FW update, I guess they're rolling them out based on the serial number. I think they're a great pair of TWS and if I could only keep one that would be the one. It can do everything...except running maybe as there will be a "thump" so I'd need to keep the X12 too


----------



## webvan

Caipirina said:


> I really feel like I am missing out! The most talked about TWS in the last few weeks (Bomaker Sifi and the Fiil T1X) are not easy or too expensive to get when one has no access to amazon, preferably amazon US ...
> Not shelling out 70+ $ when I know there are lightning deals when they can be had for 34$ ...
> 
> Anyone from the US flying to Sri Lanka anytime soon?



Yeah don't make the same mistake I did by getting them from Geekbuying and ending with a dud that they are not wanting to take back under their DOA policy. AE would likely be the same.

The Bomaker Sifi sound good but I can't find a way to wear them to my liking. The super shallow tips are nice because I can tuck them inside my ear but small movements makes them pop out and break the seal and normal tips just make them stick out from my ear and leave them "suspended" in mid-air. As I've posted before they're almost too small and other than looking "cute" I honestly don't see what purpose it fits.


----------



## assassin10000 (Jan 21, 2020)

webvan said:


> Yeah don't make the same mistake I did by getting them from Geekbuying and ending with a dud that they are not wanting to take back under their DOA policy. AE would likely be the same.
> 
> The Bomaker Sifi sound good but I can't find a way to wear them to my liking. The super shallow tips are nice because I can tuck them inside my ear but small movements makes them pop out and break the seal and normal tips just make them stick out from my ear and leave them "suspended" in mid-air. As I've posted before they're almost too small and other than looking "cute" I honestly don't see what purpose it fits.



Have you tried cutting t200 or t400 tips in half? Or maybe try the deep insertion/shallow fit ikko foam tips?

They're pretty neat. Unfortunately a hair too large for my ears. Need 10.5 or 11mm, the small at 11.5mm was too large for my ears.


----------



## Caipirina

webvan said:


> Yeah don't make the same mistake I did by getting them from Geekbuying and ending with a dud that they are not wanting to take back under their DOA policy. AE would likely be the same.
> 
> The Bomaker Sifi sound good but I can't find a way to wear them to my liking. The super shallow tips are nice because I can tuck them inside my ear but small movements makes them pop out and break the seal and normal tips just make them stick out from my ear and leave them "suspended" in mid-air. As I've posted before they're almost too small and other than looking "cute" I honestly don't see what purpose it fits.


Really need to be better at ‘be happy with what you have’ 
Thinking of that, I made sure that my X12 are charging nicely, it’s their turn as run buds tomorrow. Unfortunately they have become slightly unstable when it comes to keeping a charge when left alone in box, so I have to ‘watch’ them charge the night before 

well, and i ended up ordering those Dyplay ANC buds that @chinmie raved about. At least something with new feature (anc) Instead of just cute looks


----------



## rockappalla

Hi everyone, 
I just got the Sabbat E12, I love the looks but hate the sound, the bass is very deep and punchy but there' no treble and they sound muffled (tried every tip included)
I'm now looking at the Tronsmart spunky beats and the Tranya B530, which do you think it'll be the best option?
i'm open to (budget) suggestions!

thanks for your help!!


----------



## webvan

assassin10000 said:


> Have you tried cutting t200 or t400 tips in half? Or maybe try the deep insertion/shallow fit ikko foam tips?
> 
> They're pretty neat. Unfortunately a hair too large for my ears. Need 10.5 or 11mm, the small at 11.5mm was too large for my ears.



These ikko foam tips look great and they remind me of the foams that came with the Jabra Elite Sport. Unlike classic Comply (or clones) tips they didn't "muffle" the sound to my ears. Let's see if I can track them down !


----------



## d3myz

Gamesky recently did a secondary review of the Earfun free. He said they released an updated version with volume control and mono mode. I got mine in Oct. of last year and they don't have volume control or Mono Mode and Amazon is still selling the same version. I checked his link and it directs me to the same product I bought. So Beware, Earfun may have updated these buds but as of Jan. 14th in questions they still don't have mono mode or voice control w/o using Siri/Google etc.


----------



## beedee

voicemaster said:


> Yes, especially the bass and treble. They are not exaggerated at all, this is probably the "flattest" sounding TWE I have yet. The mid is a little bit more forward than my Westone 4.


 
Are you referring to Single or double BA - Mifo 07?


----------



## voicemaster

beedee said:


> Are you referring to Single or double BA - Mifo 07?


Double BA.


----------



## assassin10000 (Jan 21, 2020)

webvan said:


> These ikko foam tips look great and they remind me of the foams that came with the Jabra Elite Sport. Unlike classic Comply (or clones) tips they didn't "muffle" the sound to my ears. Let's see if I can track them down !



Amazon US has them, I linked them previously. Penon and their AE store does, but I'm pretty sure there will be a Chinese new years delay.


Edit, here you go:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B07WG5Q129/
https://penonaudio.com/ikko-i-planet-foam-eartips.html
https://m.aliexpress.com/item/4000040492129.html


----------



## chinmie

Caipirina said:


> Really need to be better at ‘be happy with what you have’
> Thinking of that, I made sure that my X12 are charging nicely, it’s their turn as run buds tomorrow. Unfortunately they have become slightly unstable when it comes to keeping a charge when left alone in box, so I have to ‘watch’ them charge the night before
> 
> well, and i ended up ordering those Dyplay ANC buds that @chinmie raved about. At least something with new feature (anc) Instead of just cute looks



I hope you'd be happy with them. It's now currently my number 1 favorite/ most used TWS



rockappalla said:


> Hi everyone,
> I just got the Sabbat E12, I love the looks but hate the sound, the bass is very deep and punchy but there' no treble and they sound muffled (tried every tip included)
> I'm now looking at the Tronsmart spunky beats and the Tranya B530, which do you think it'll be the best option?
> i'm open to (budget) suggestions!
> ...



The E12 is a lost opportunity. It has one of the best form factor, control, and case size, but disappoints in the sound quality. If only the just at least copy the X12 sound with a passive noise blocking, it would be golden for me


----------



## webvan

assassin10000 said:


> Amazon US has them, I linked them previously. Penon and their AE store does, but I'm pretty sure there will be a Chinese new years delay.
> 
> 
> Edit, here you go:
> ...




Thanks, they've added them on Amazon FR too so I'll probably give them a go. Which TWEs do you use them with ?


----------



## assassin10000 (Jan 21, 2020)

webvan said:


> Thanks, they've added them on Amazon FR too so I'll probably give them a go. Which TWEs do you use them with ?



I only tried them on the Tronsmart Spunky Beats. They ended up being a little too large for my small ear canals, so I ended up returning them. I'd need a 10.5mm size if they ever make an XS version.

I did email ikko about that. Hopefully they do. I really like the design.


----------



## X-Nemesis

My buddy in Canada is looking for his first TWS and wants to spend $50-70.  He prefers good highs and mids but not heavy bass.  Can any of you drop some recommendations that would suit his needs that are available from Amazon.ca?

I was thinking the Tranya B530 or the Mpow M5.

Thanks


----------



## chinmie

X-Nemesis said:


> My buddy in Canada is looking for his first TWS and wants to spend $50-70.  He prefers good highs and mids but not heavy bass.  Can any of you drop some recommendations that would suit his needs that are available from Amazon.ca?
> 
> I was thinking the Tranya B530 or the Mpow M5.
> 
> Thanks



Lypertek Tevi, Mifo o7, QCY T5 might fit the bill


----------



## voicemaster

X-Nemesis said:


> My buddy in Canada is looking for his first TWS and wants to spend $50-70.  He prefers good highs and mids but not heavy bass.  Can any of you drop some recommendations that would suit his needs that are available from Amazon.ca?
> 
> I was thinking the Tranya B530 or the Mpow M5.
> 
> Thanks



Both has heavy bass imho.


----------



## voicemaster

chinmie said:


> Lypertek Tevi, Mifo o7, QCY T5 might fit the bill


Too bad the mifo 07 is $149. I got it for $77 when they have a deal, but I can't really say they are $70 twe.


----------



## bronco1015

rockappalla said:


> Hi everyone,
> I just got the Sabbat E12, I love the looks but hate the sound, the bass is very deep and punchy but there' no treble and they sound muffled (tried every tip included)
> I'm now looking at the Tronsmart spunky beats and the Tranya B530, which do you think it'll be the best option?
> i'm open to (budget) suggestions!
> ...


That's easy. Tronsmart Spunky beat every single time over b530.


----------



## cwill (Jan 21, 2020)

bronco1015 said:


> That's easy. Tronsmart Spunky beat every single time over b530.


I have to jump in and disagree here. They sound great and they are a good comfortable size, but they have a mind of their own with these horrible touch controls. They're ridiculously sensitive and continually do things on their own. You can't touch the earbuds at all without them registering some type of command. It's so bad I've just given up on them. That being said, I would LOVE for them to release a hard button version. Would be an instant buy for me.


----------



## chinmie

i still consider buttons to be superior than touch controls. the only touch control implementation that i like is the Galaxy Buds, because they have sensors that would disable the touch controls whenever we took it out off the ears.


----------



## Jellymang

Anyone have a recommendation for TWS with small housing? Large housing hurts the outer part of my ear (ridge above ear lobe). For reference, Jabra 65t are quite painful after an hour and Anker Soundcore Liberty Neo is a bit better but uncomfortable after a while also.


----------



## hifi80sman

Jellymang said:


> Anyone have a recommendation for TWS with small housing? Large housing hurts the outer part of my ear (ridge above ear lobe). For reference, Jabra 65t are quite painful after an hour and Anker Soundcore Liberty Neo is a bit better but uncomfortable after a while also.


Here's some that may work.  The TREBLAB XFit have some serious bass, if you're into that.  I like them for the gym, louder environments.  Seem to be OK for calls, too.  Pretty good feedback on the Mavin Air-X as well.

https://www.amazon.com/TREBLAB-Xfit-Sensational-Headphones-Waterproof/dp/B07TLDF7M7/

https://www.amazon.com/TrueWireless-Earbuds-Connection-Playtime-Bluetooth/dp/B07JN4DZ2R/


----------



## voicemaster

Jellymang said:


> Anyone have a recommendation for TWS with small housing? Large housing hurts the outer part of my ear (ridge above ear lobe). For reference, Jabra 65t are quite painful after an hour and Anker Soundcore Liberty Neo is a bit better but uncomfortable after a while also.


Tronsmart Spunky Beats (AptX, $20ish, sounds great, connection strength is pretty average, touch control is very sensitive), Mifo 07 ($100+, very small case, great sound but not for basshead, above average connection strength), Samsung galaxy buds ($100+, EQ in the app, good sound, connection strength is average, has ambiance mode).


----------



## assassin10000

Jellymang said:


> Anyone have a recommendation for TWS with small housing? Large housing hurts the outer part of my ear (ridge above ear lobe). For reference, Jabra 65t are quite painful after an hour and Anker Soundcore Liberty Neo is a bit better but uncomfortable after a while also.



Tronsmart Spunky Beat fit completely in my small ears with almost zero contact, except where it 'laid' inside the ear.


----------



## falang

Toom said:


> Anyone got the Jabra 75t and can compare to the Active 65t?



I can't compare my recently purchased Jabra 75T to the 65T but I can give some impressions.

I own the Advanced Model X, Anbes, and the Anker L2Pros.  The 75T have immediately become my favourite for a few simple reasons: size, fit, and controls.  The buds and case are small and the perfect form factor for me.  However, I didn't love the included tips so I modified a set of soft silicone tips so that they could fit in the case.  They work beautifully and provide seemingly better isolation.  One click on the left earbud activities hear-through mode which works very well.  I'll leave sound quality description to the experts, but they sound fantastic to me.

I like the L2Pros in a quiet environment, but living in HK, they are almost useless for daily travel with their poor isolation.  I found the Anbes to have connection issues in busy areas, probably competing with a tsunami of other bluetooth signals, and the poor battery life was not suited for air travel.  The Advanced Model X sounded good but I had persistent pairing issues and essentially shelved them.   

One caveat about the 75Ts.  Make sure you buy them in a physical retail space.  The left bud is known to have dropout/connections issues.  My first pair had it.  i returned it for a new pair and they work flawlessly.  

One question for 75T owners, do you find when you take an earbud out, it pauses the audio as it should, but when you put it back in, the audio doesn't resume automatically?  It's supposed to do so within 60 seconds.  This isn't working for me.  Pressing the right earbud once also doesn't resume the music.


----------



## vaaccess

I have to agree with others, just got the FiiL T1x and it is a very capable TWS. I’m A/B/C testing them against my wired Klipsch X11i & Klipsch R6i IEMs. 

the T1x beats the R6s pretty easily. The bass on the T1x more closet aligns with the X11s and the mids, too. The R6 is muddy and boomy and reminding me why I don’t use them anymore. 

it’s hard to put my finger on it, but the T1x has a treble that’s a bit more harsh to me, yet more crisp. (I’m using the original EQ setting, btw. And I’m listening to Two Feet as my test tunes, specifically “I feel like I’m drowning”, “Felt like playing guitar and not singing”, and “Hurt People”)

Anyway. 

It’s getting nit-picky, but while I like the T1x, it just seems a tad harsh. But if I wasn’t testing them side-by-side, I don’t think I’d have a problem with them honesty. 

One more thing. I despise silicone tips. When I wiggle my jaw I hate the sounds it makes. And when I walk all I hear is thump thump thump. Granted, if I seated them differently in my ears, that might not be as pronounced.  Anyone have a good recommendation for alternate tips?  If I keep these I would absolutely have to go with something else. 

I did have some foam tips from my Shure e2c IEMs that I could JUST get to fit. But they weren’t seating well and I temporarily lost the tips in my ear. Lol. All for the goal of good tunes I guess!

I get the MIFO 07 on Friday, I’m excited to compare those, but for now I would agree that the T1x is a great sounding no frills TWS. And, the app allows you to tweak the EQ, so for the person who was just asking for a good $50-ish TWS, I would feel good about having them consider this one. 

As a final aside, I did one test phone call and found the microphone quality to be a bit, meh. I don’t talk to people enough on the phone to care, honesty, but thought I’d mention it for those that do care.


----------



## SilverEars (Jan 21, 2020)

Crin's newest wireless reviews.  Tonal response needs to be worked on.  That bass on 75t is rediculous.  I wonder if they tried to shelf it like Harman and messed it up big time?

https://crinacle.com/2020/01/20/tws...edifier-elite-75t-liberty-2-pro-stylish-tevi/


----------



## bronco1015

cwill said:


> I have to jump in and disagree here. They sound great and they are a good comfortable size, but they have a mind of their own with these horrible touch controls. They're ridiculously sensitive and continually do things on their own. You can't touch the earbuds at all without them registering some type of command. It's so bad I've just given up on them. That being said, I would LOVE for them to release a hard button version. Would be an instant buy for me.


I definitely hear that, should have clarified sq sbeats..cificly. but yeah i have to only touch the edges of the spunkybeat


----------



## voicemaster

vaaccess said:


> I have to agree with others, just got the FiiL T1x and it is a very capable TWS. I’m A/B/C testing them against my wired Klipsch X11i & Klipsch R6i IEMs.
> 
> the T1x beats the R6s pretty easily. The bass on the T1x more closet aligns with the X11s and the mids, too. The R6 is muddy and boomy and reminding me why I don’t use them anymore.
> 
> ...



With minimal burn-in, the harshness will reduced. Or your brain just adapt to the sound. If you want, you can use foam tips to tame the treble a little bit.


----------



## wksoh

voicemaster said:


> They have different sound signature, the t1x is more fun sounding tws while the 07 is more toward neutral. Both sounds really good.


I'm struggling with using the T1X for Rock music. I find the vol of mid a little low for rock music. 
Vocals and guitar distortions are the drivers for rock music and reside in the mids . Have you tried JBL free X? The mids have an extra grunge that I find addictive. But I think the jbl doesn't have vol control nor aptx.


----------



## Caipirina

chinmie said:


> I hope you'd be happy with them. It's now currently my number 1 favorite/ most used TWS


Do you own the APP? Would be curious to know how the ANC compares.


----------



## wksoh (Feb 24, 2020)

X-Nemesis said:


> My buddy in Canada is looking for his first TWS and wants to spend $50-70.  He prefers good highs and mids but not heavy bass.  Can any of you drop some recommendations that would suit his needs that are available from Amazon.ca?
> 
> I was thinking the Tranya B530 or the Mpow M5.
> 
> Thanks


Mpow M5 bass is spot on, full bodied like a real bass guitar in a studio. The sound is rich. And similar to the $1000 shure 846 quad driver. Check out jbl free X. The bass is a little less than mpow M5 but the mid has that extra grunge, very addictive - but vol is lower than mpow m5 and no aptx I think. I never tried Tranya but heard good things. Meanwhile I'm packing my T1X to return to Amazon. Vol too soft and the recessed mids not ideal for rock and vocals. Guess I'm a minority.


----------



## wksoh (Feb 24, 2020)

wksoh said:


> Today the Mpow M5 met a strong competitor. In the name of JBL Free X. Cons: The JBL Free x has lower volume than Mpow M5 and no vol controls. JBL has strong bass but a tad softer than mpow. Strong mids like Mpow M5, but the jbl has that grunge in the mids that makes that Alnico humbucker distortion more alive. This little extra bite goes a long way. Joe Cocker voice is even throatier now. I'll recheck my SSK but I think it may come up short against the JBL Free X.


Tested the SSK against the JBL Free X, for my kind of rock music, the SSK falls short of JBL Free X. Increasing SSK vol didn't hold well. MPOW M5 is the only tws I have that can hold against the JBL Free X. JBL still wins in the engaging mid grunge. Mpow m5 wins in vol, aptx, connection battery life, price  - sound quality is a close 2nd.,


----------



## voicemaster

wksoh said:


> Tested the SSK against the JBL Free X, for my kind of rock music, the SSK falls short of JBL Free X. SSK Not enough power, not enough volume. Increasing vol didn't hold well. MPOW M5 is the only tws I have that can hold against the JBL Free X. JBL still wins in the engaging mid grunge. Mpow m5 wins in vol, aptx, connection battery life, price  - sound quality is a close 2nd.,



Maybe you could post what rock music you listening to?


----------



## chinmie

Caipirina said:


> Do you own the APP? Would be curious to know how the ANC compares.



i don't have it. i was set on buying one, but kinda lost the steam after getting this BQC35, not to mention i have another ANC TWS incoming from AE.

but seeing reviews, the APP's ANC can block higher freq noise to the level of the XM3's (even some says slightly better than the XM3 in cancelling higher freq). 

the BQC35 lets Nillkin Go's level of high freq ambient noise, but the low freq it can perform as good as the XM3's. so in terms of ANC,  I'm guessing it's closer to the Huawei Freebuds, but with a bit better passive blocking? 

i brought my Galaxy buds and the BQC35 to the Gym yesterday, and there's this aerobics class that's pumping loud music. the G Buds muffled the sound, but the rumble was like vibrating in my ears. the BQC35 pretty much canceled the low rumble, but i can hear people around me talk, so in a word it suits my daily scenarios better.


----------



## Caipirina (Jan 22, 2020)

chinmie said:


> i don't have it. i was set on buying one, but kinda lost the steam after getting this BQC35, not to mention i have another ANC TWS incoming from AE.
> 
> but seeing reviews, the APP's ANC can block higher freq noise to the level of the XM3's (even some says slightly better than the XM3 in cancelling higher freq).
> 
> ...


Now I feel better about having ordered them and can’t wait to get them. Let’s see how much delay CNY is going to add...

this does not bode well ...


----------



## wksoh (Feb 24, 2020)

voicemaster said:


> Maybe you could post what rock music you listening to?


Thanks for your reply:


Try listening at mid at higher vol. I know you have mpow M5... The lower mid can grunge and growl. At higher vol doesn't shrill. Let me know your findings


----------



## voicemaster (Jan 22, 2020)

wksoh said:


> Thanks for your reply:
> 
> 
> Try listening at mid and higher vol. I know you have mpow M5... One of them  - the lower mid can grunge and growl. At higher vol doesn't shrill. Let me know your findings




I tried it with t1x and mifo 07. You will probably like mifo 07 sound better than t1x. It is completely smooth with no shrill at all. The t1x has more "bite" on the vocal on that song. If you like mid, the mifo 07 is very good.
I am using my pc and set youtube and my pc volume both at max for the mifo 07 while max on youtube and 82% on pc is very loud on the t1x.


----------



## wksoh (Jan 22, 2020)

voicemaster said:


> Maybe you could post what rock music you listening to?




Try this? .. Even bigger difference. Kee Marcello'S Gibson LES Paul guitar humbuckers going full bore. This music will likely shrill with an overly V shaped sounding tws. Those who have Mpow M5, SSK or JBL free X.. Time to.. Enjoy! ... Can't speak for the tws that I don't own.


----------



## wksoh

voicemaster said:


> I tried it with t1x and mifo 07. You will probably like mifo 07 sound better than t1x. It is completely smooth with no shrill at all. The t1x has more "bite" on the vocal on that song. If you like mid, the mifo 07 is very good.
> I am using my pc and set youtube and my pc volume both at max for the mifo 07 while max on youtube and 82% on pc is very loud on the t1x.


Great to know about the mifo 07. Have you the chance to reevaluate the mpow M5 vs mifo 07 for this kind of music?


----------



## rockappalla

chinmie said:


> The E12 is a lost opportunity. It has one of the best form factor, control, and case size, but disappoints in the sound quality. If only the just at least copy the X12 sound with a passive noise blocking, it would be golden for me



Yup, I totally agree...I love how they look and they are super easy to pick up and put back in the case...hope they come out with a decent sounding model with the same aesthetics...


----------



## voicemaster (Jan 22, 2020)

wksoh said:


> Great to know about the mifo 07. Have you the chance to reevaluate the mpow M5 vs mifo 07 for this kind of music?


The mpow m5 for sure has better thump on the bass guitar. The mifo 07 is more you can hear the bass guitar clearly, but there is way less thump or grunt that you can feel.
If you like listening at high volume, the mifo 07 is the winner because it doesn't hurt my ears at all while the mpow still hurt my ears with the cymbals sound from Europe - homeland.


----------



## wksoh (Jan 22, 2020)

voicemaster said:


> The mpow m5 for sure has better thump on the bass guitar. The mifo 07 is more you can hear the bass guitar clearly, but there is way less thump or grunt that you can feel.


Yes! You described it well! "Grunt"!!
If you come across tws with better "Grunt", pls share . So far it seems to be jbl free X


----------



## voicemaster

wksoh said:


> Yes! You described it well! "Grunt"!!
> If you come across tws with better "Grunt", pls share . So far it seems to be jbl free X



The tronsmart spunky beats surprisingly pretty grunty on that song.


----------



## wksoh

voicemaster said:


> The tronsmart spunky beats surprisingly pretty grunty on that song.


Have Spunky beats.. I find the upper mids forward and shouty.. But that's just my ears


----------



## voicemaster

wksoh said:


> Have Spunky beats.. I find the upper mids forward and shouty.. But that's just my ears


Yes it is shouty, but it is more grunty than t1x.


----------



## karloil (Jan 22, 2020)

So I tested 3 TW last weekend. Connected to my S10e. Using both Spotify and Neutron. No equalizer used.

- N6: Overall staging seems congested and muffled to me. Good detail retrieval. Tip was uncomfortable to my ears. Changing them to CP360s made them a lot comfortable.
- N6 Pro: Same feedback with the tips. Better staging with cleaner/clearer mids. I prefer the Pro version versus to the non-Pro. Some might call it bright, but for me it was just right.
- FiiO UTWS1: I don't have the BT20s so I can't compare the 2. But I tried it with a Shure SE535. I didn't hear any hiss. Very comfortable to use. But the UTWS1 did muffled the sound a bit - the sales guy asked me to compare the cabled SE535 versus the UTWS1 w/SE535. But to my ears, the sound muffle depending on the track being listened to. Waiting for the 2pin version so that I can try it with my IEMs and see how it goes.

For now, I'm leaning towards the UTWS1 - simply because it will bring life back to my unused IEMs  I don't see the need to get the N6 Pro since I'm still enjoying my Tevi


----------



## FYLegend

X-Nemesis said:


> My buddy in Canada is looking for his first TWS and wants to spend $50-70.  He prefers good highs and mids but not heavy bass.  Can any of you drop some recommendations that would suit his needs that are available from Amazon.ca?
> 
> I was thinking the Tranya B530 or the Mpow M5.
> 
> Thanks


The Aufo M1 seems promising but I can't speak for it firsthand. I'm considering it as it currently on sale for 50$ but there have been a few up-and-down impressions. I'm also looking for something with AptX, Qi charging  and USB Type-C charging, preferably at this price point but in Canada that's asking a lot. the M1 has 2/3 of these features (no AptX).

Headphone Bar in Vancouver sells Lypertek Tevi so you don't necessarily need to purchase off Lypertek. They have a store on Main St. and will ship it for free in Canada.

I'm very curious about these ones. There's no specific name but they might be "GRDE T11". Case looks rather bulky but it has AptX as well as a 3000mAh power bank and USB Type C.
https://www.amazon.ca/Wireless-Blue...&sr=1-99-dd5817a1-1ba7-46c2-8996-f96e7b0f409c


----------



## wksoh

voicemaster said:


> Yes it is shouty, but it is more grunty than t1x.


Yes yes... Thanks for taking a listen to my songs.. Hope they will grow on you. Here's one more for you:


----------



## jlcsoft

Jellymang said:


> Anyone have a recommendation for TWS with small housing? Large housing hurts the outer part of my ear (ridge above ear lobe). For reference, Jabra 65t are quite painful after an hour and Anker Soundcore Liberty Neo is a bit better but uncomfortable after a while also.


the spunky beat are really small, and the M eartip included fits great in my ear.


----------



## X-Nemesis

chinmie said:


> Lypertek Tevi, Mifo o7, QCY T5 might fit the bill


Thanks,  will check those out.


----------



## rockappalla

Just ordered the spunky beats, hope I'll like them better than the Sabbat E12 (which are not clear at all, the highs are muffled)


----------



## gdv brisbane

Can anyone recommend an alternative tip that would fit the SSK BT03 and still charge in the case? In the past I've used Shure black olives on my Etys but I've no idea what barrel size I need for the SSKs.


----------



## Odioer (Jan 22, 2020)

]

Deleted


----------



## assassin10000

rockappalla said:


> Just ordered the spunky beats, hope I'll like them better than the Sabbat E12 (which are not clear at all, the highs are muffled)



I liked the Spunky Beats sq more than the E12 ultra I just returned. I listen at low to med volume, so if you listen loud ymmv.


----------



## rockappalla

assassin10000 said:


> I liked the Spunky Beats sq more than the E12 ultra I just returned. I listen at low to med volume, so if you listen loud ymmv.


Thanks, I'll get them tomorrow...I'll write my impressions later


----------



## vaaccess

voicemaster said:


> With minimal burn-in, the harshness will reduced. Or your brain just adapt to the sound. If you want, you can use foam tips to tame the treble a little bit.



Do you or anyone else have a tip recommendation for the T1x?


----------



## hifi80sman

wksoh said:


> Thanks for your reply:
> 
> 
> Try listening at mid and higher vol. I know you have mpow M5... One of them  - the lower mid can grunge and growl. At higher vol doesn't shrill. Let me know your findings



So...no Backstreet Boys?  Because, you know, I want it that way.


----------



## d3myz

cwill said:


> I have to jump in and disagree here. They sound great and they are a good comfortable size, but they have a mind of their own with these horrible touch controls. They're ridiculously sensitive and continually do things on their own. You can't touch the earbuds at all without them registering some type of command. It's so bad I've just given up on them. That being said, I would LOVE for them to release a hard button version. Would be an instant buy for me.


I agree, Sometimes the touch sensor just stops working on one side for me and I can't get them in or out with out touching them. I love everything else about them.


----------



## d3myz

chinmie said:


> i don't have it. i was set on buying one, but kinda lost the steam after getting this BQC35, not to mention i have another ANC TWS incoming from AE.
> 
> but seeing reviews, the APP's ANC can block higher freq noise to the level of the XM3's (even some says slightly better than the XM3 in cancelling higher freq).
> 
> ...


I noticed that Dyplay makes another ANC TWS. I wonder if it's any good. So the BQC35 doesn't have an ambient or transparency mode, is that correct?


----------



## hifi80sman

Just ordered these guys.  13mm graphene driver, USB C, 15 hours battery (ANC off), QCC3026.  Anyone else try them yet?

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07XHH8HF5/

https://www.edifier.com/us/en/headphones-earphones/twsnb-true-wireless-earbud-headphones


----------



## Sebulr

voicemaster said:


> If someone still have a good hearing meaning that he/she can hear those 17khz+ frequency, the hiss probably will sound very annoying and piercing. For me, I can barely hear above 15khz, if I hear hiss on my iem, it probably won't be as annoying lol.


I'm 42 and I think I can hear upto 14khz on a good day, very faintly. I do know my kz Bluetooth cables hiss at about 2db and have electrical noise, and it is annoying at low listening volumes. Never listened to the ankers, but I do know impedance mismatch is a thing. Took Sony years to get rid of hiss in sensitive iems circa 15 years ago.


----------



## d3myz

hifi80sman said:


> Just ordered these guys.  13mm graphene driver, USB C, 15 hours battery (ANC off), QCC3026.  Anyone else try them yet?
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07XHH8HF5/
> 
> https://www.edifier.com/us/en/headphones-earphones/twsnb-true-wireless-earbud-headphones


No ambient mode?


----------



## hifi80sman (Jan 22, 2020)

d3myz said:


> No ambient mode?


They do.  

http://cdn.ventmere.com/edifier-dev/uploads/2020-01/TWS-NB-User-Manual_TMeF6HVT.pdf


----------



## Sebulr

I am still liking my ceppekyy h01. They have a good case that lasts for weeks, and I can even accommodate 14.5mm  extra large tips in them which I need. I posted about them earlier in the thread. They are steal at the £26 I paid on amazon when they were on sale. I use them with the aac code. Solid connection, great battery life.

Decent amount of bass, slight mid bleed into the mids, fairly detailed non rolled off treble. Sound Harmon tuned to my ears, maybe slightly bass shy for that tuning so probably fair to say shallow V. Slightly more treble than my mifo 05.

Only thing I don't like is the touch controls. I prefer buttons. Touch controls I find are less accurate, and slightly annoy me. So your mileage may vary.

Give em a try


----------



## Extricated

Hi everyone,

First time poster here - I'm looking for a pair of wireless buds but I'm a little stuck. Does anyone have any recommendations for something with an open soundstage (rather than the compressed feel of the SoundPeats Truengine SE), and a more balanced level rather than bass boosted?

These are what I'm currently considering but I'm open to new suggestions:

SSK BT03
TRANYA B530
Liberty 2 Pro
Tevi
Fiil T1X
Mpow M5/T5
Bomaker Sifi

Thank you!


----------



## d3myz (Jan 22, 2020)

hifi80sman said:


> They do.
> 
> http://cdn.ventmere.com/edifier-dev/uploads/2020-01/TWS-NB-User-Manual_TMeF6HVT.pdf


Awesome, I think i'm going to send my Nural's back and get these. I just can't seem to find a happy medium between the N6 and N6 pro. The N6 has too much mid bass and the Pro doesn't have enough low bass, but I am tempted to keep the Pros, because they do sound beautiful however the N6 can be eq'd and I think it sounds really close to the Pro. ERRRRRGH. I'm also finding that I hardly even use them for more than an hour at a time because the don't have ANC or ambient modes. I work at home and i'm constantly around my kids and wife during the day and It's just become a pain in the a$$ to have to take my buds out to hear (1st world problems). The XM3 ambient mode pretty much sucks in comparison to the APPs, I can't hear what people are saying and the APPs are amazing but the sound is... well, you know, after listening to the Nuarl or the Xm3 they sound like $20 drugstore headphones w/o eq'ing. Furthermore, as it's been mentioned on here, I think we are going to see a plethora of new TWS' with ANC/Ambient modes and while sound quality is paramount it no longer makes sense to me to buy anything over $100 w/o it. Thoughts?


----------



## Caipirina

Extricated said:


> Hi everyone,
> 
> First time poster here - I'm looking for a pair of wireless buds but I'm a little stuck. Does anyone have any recommendations for something with an open soundstage (rather than the compressed feel of the SoundPeats Truengine SE), and a more balanced level rather than bass boosted?
> 
> ...



for open soundstage (but less noise isolation) try any of the earbud style (semi open) TWS, lead by the fantastic Sabbath X12


----------



## turbobb

hifi80sman said:


> They do.
> 
> http://cdn.ventmere.com/edifier-dev/uploads/2020-01/TWS-NB-User-Manual_TMeF6HVT.pdf



Awesome, looking forward to your impressions as I was deciding between this or the Echo Buds due to the similar features.


----------



## hifi80sman

turbobb said:


> Awesome, looking forward to your impressions as I was deciding between this or the Echo Buds due to the similar features.


Yeah, I looked at the Echo Buds, but there's mixed impressions on the dual BA setup.  Some people say there's too much bass and it doesn't sound like dual BA, so to me, given my perceived limitations of a BA setup, the bass is likely a muddy high bass, not the low to sub bass I prefer.

$119 is not bad and I like the ear hooks, something the XM3 should have had (but I guess they didn't go down that path because it's not IPX rated).  FYI, Sony, sometimes ear hooks are good even just for daily around-the-town usage.


----------



## gibletzor

vaaccess said:


> Do you or anyone else have a tip recommendation for the T1x?


I like the Auvios from Radio Shack with mine!


----------



## hifi80sman

d3myz said:


> Awesome, I think i'm going to send my Nural's back and get these. I just can't seem to find a happy medium between the N6 and N6 pro. The N6 has too much mid bass and the Pro doesn't have enough low bass, but I am tempted to keep the Pros, because they do sound beautiful however the N6 can be eq'd and I think it sounds really close to the Pro. ERRRRRGH. I'm also finding that I hardly even use them for more than an hour at a time because the don't have ANC or ambient modes. I work at home and i'm constantly around my kids and wife during the day and It's just become a pain in the a$$ to have to take my buds out to hear (1st world problems). The XM3 ambient mode pretty much sucks in comparison to the APPs, I can't hear what people are saying and the APPs are amazing but the sound is... well, you know, after listening to the Nuarl or the Xm3 they sound like $20 drugstore headphones w/o eq'ing. Furthermore, as it's been mentioned on here, I think we are going to see a plethora of new TWS' with ANC/Ambient modes and while sound quality is paramount it no longer makes sense to me to buy anything over $100 w/o it. Thoughts?


Do it.  I've been looking for something that's a better fitting, maybe even better sounding (even though I think the XM3 sounds great) ANC TWS to pair with the aforementioned XM3.  For home, the XM3 are fine, but actually on the move, they just un-seat because there's really nothing holding it place very well.  So the gym, tough, because they move just a bit, but just a bit, is a bit too much.

Plus, 13mm graphene sounds REALLY COOL.


----------



## gibletzor

hifi80sman said:


> Just ordered these guys.  13mm graphene driver, USB C, 15 hours battery (ANC off), QCC3026.  Anyone else try them yet?
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07XHH8HF5/
> 
> https://www.edifier.com/us/en/headphones-earphones/twsnb-true-wireless-earbud-headphones



Those remind me of something that would have been stuck to Seven of Nine's head in Voyager...


----------



## w3sip

What are the best TWS under $50 for prog/metal? Rush/Iron Maiden/Porcupine Tree/Haken kind of music. One requirement is ability to stay in ear when on the move -- that failure is the main reason I'll be returning Taotronics SoundLiberty 53s: they just don't want to stay in place, especially in the gym.


----------



## turbobb

@hifi80sman - so another I had considered because it's relatively new and touted ANC were these:
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B083SKFDWX/

However, I believe the ANC only applies to calls... I still am curious about them though as I also would like a set that's really good for calls. Yet, the Bose 700 TWS beckons so just trying to be patient for those...


----------



## Extricated

Caipirina said:


> for open soundstage (but less noise isolation) try any of the earbud style (semi open) TWS, lead by the fantastic Sabbath X12


I really don't want to go down the semi-open route, the Sabbat X12s are closer to earphones than earbuds imo


----------



## Thomas De Brito (Jan 22, 2020)

Just wondering besides @audio123 who else bought the geekfly gf8 on penon audio. I think scarbir bought a pair too but I am not seeing much talk on them.


----------



## webvan

d3myz said:


> Awesome, I think i'm going to send my Nural's back and get these. I just can't seem to find a happy medium between the N6 and N6 pro. The N6 has too much mid bass and the Pro doesn't have enough low bass, but I am tempted to keep the Pros, because they do sound beautiful however the N6 can be eq'd and I think it sounds really close to the Pro. ERRRRRGH. I'm also finding that I hardly even use them for more than an hour at a time because the don't have ANC or ambient modes. I work at home and i'm constantly around my kids and wife during the day and It's just become a pain in the a$$ to have to take my buds out to hear (1st world problems). The XM3 ambient mode pretty much sucks in comparison to the APPs, I can't hear what people are saying and the APPs are amazing but the sound is... well, you know, after listening to the Nuarl or the Xm3 they sound like $20 drugstore headphones w/o eq'ing. Furthermore, as it's been mentioned on here, I think we are going to see a plethora of new TWS' with ANC/Ambient modes and while sound quality is paramount it no longer makes sense to me to buy anything over $100 w/o it. Thoughts?


Sounds like you need the Echo Buds in a hurry as the ANR+Passive combo produces the most isolating setup I've ever used (way better than the APPs and also better than the XM3s is memory serves, remember it's not as "impressive" when turned on because the passive isolation is 5x better) and their ambient mode is very close to the APPs (and they have the neat option of tap for ambient+music pause), as for SQ it's absolutely fine to my ears, very nice sub bass. I'm still amazed that so few people here have tried them given their "addiction"  Yeah the box is rather large and is microUSB but frankly that's never been a problem for me.


----------



## Extricated

Think I've settled on the Fiil T1X. Does anyone know of a distributor in the UK? I don't really want to wait a month for China.


----------



## Trebor1966

You can buy it from italy, fastest delivery to UK:
https://de.geekbuying.com/item/FIIL-T1X-Bluetooth-5-0-TWS-Earphones-AAC-SBC-Black-422271.html


----------



## d3myz

webvan said:


> Sounds like you need the Echo Buds in a hurry as the ANR+Passive combo produces the most isolating setup I've ever used (way better than the APPs and also better than the XM3s is memory serves, remember it's not as "impressive" when turned on because the passive isolation is 5x better) and their ambient mode is very close to the APPs (and they have the neat option of tap for ambient+music pause), as for SQ it's absolutely fine to my ears, very nice sub bass. I'm still amazed that so few people here have tried them given their "addiction"  Yeah the box is rather large and is microUSB but frankly that's never been a problem for me.


 yea, I've been meaning to give them a go. There was some talk about them a while back about an issue someone was having, don't remember what it was, maybe one of the earbuds losing charge or something so I kind of set them in the back corner of my mind. One of the reviews on amazon said they sound good but not as good as airpods or bose . Some people! Not sure what i'm going to do yet. I need to give the Nuarl's one last lap around the track. It would be a shame not to keep one, because they are such a work of are and the do sound fantastic, but honestly, they are a bit bulky and even though the T1x can be a bit biting on the highs at higher volume, it still sounds really fantastic enough that I think I could live without the NUARL's.


----------



## hifi80sman

turbobb said:


> @hifi80sman - so another I had considered because it's relatively new and touted ANC were these:
> https://www.amazon.com/dp/B083SKFDWX/
> 
> However, I believe the ANC only applies to calls... I still am curious about them though as I also would like a set that's really good for calls. Yet, the Bose 700 TWS beckons so just trying to be patient for those...


Those do look pretty nice, but yes, it does appear the noise cancellation is just for calls.  Plus, I've actually been using ambient mode more on my XM3 than I originally thought I would, so having that is a big plus in a TWS.


----------



## hifi80sman

webvan said:


> Sounds like you need the Echo Buds in a hurry as the ANR+Passive combo produces the most isolating setup I've ever used (way better than the APPs and also better than the XM3s is memory serves, remember it's not as "impressive" when turned on because the passive isolation is 5x better) and their ambient mode is very close to the APPs (and they have the neat option of tap for ambient+music pause), as for SQ it's absolutely fine to my ears, very nice sub bass. I'm still amazed that so few people here have tried them given their "addiction"  Yeah the box is rather large and is microUSB but frankly that's never been a problem for me.


A company like Amazon releasing something with Micro USB is quite confusing, but maybe they had to incorporate some "obsolescence" for Bose because they're looking to launch the 700 this year.  Shoot, even BLU phones are using USB C.


----------



## Caipirina

Extricated said:


> I really don't want to go down the semi-open route, the Sabbat X12s are closer to earphones than earbuds imo


Not sure if we have the same understanding of the definition of terms here 
I believe that, at least here on head-fi, earphones is an umbrella term that IEMs and earbuds fall under ... and the diff between those 2:


----------



## hifi80sman

d3myz said:


> yea, I've been meaning to give them a go. There was some talk about them a while back about an issue someone was having, don't remember what it was, maybe one of the earbuds losing charge or something so I kind of set them in the back corner of my mind. One of the reviews on amazon said they sound good but not as good as airpods or bose . Some people! Not sure what i'm going to do yet. I need to give the Nuarl's one last lap around the track. It would be a shame not to keep one, because they are such a work of are and the do sound fantastic, but honestly, they are a bit bulky and even though the T1x can be a bit biting on the highs at higher volume, it still sounds really fantastic enough that I think I could live without the NUARL's.


It's time to rotate your stock.  Never let it get old.  Use returns in your favor.  Pay cash at Best Buy.  Never sweat the petty things and never pet the sweaty things.


----------



## Extricated

Caipirina said:


> Not sure if we have the same understanding of the definition of terms here
> I believe that, at least here on head-fi, earphones is an umbrella term that IEMs and earbuds fall under ... and the diff between those 2:


Absolutely - But the Sabbbat ones fall closer to the ones on the left imo!


----------



## gibletzor

d3myz said:


> yea, I've been meaning to give them a go. There was some talk about them a while back about an issue someone was having, don't remember what it was, maybe one of the earbuds losing charge or something so I kind of set them in the back corner of my mind. One of the reviews on amazon said they sound good but not as good as airpods or bose . Some people! Not sure what i'm going to do yet. I need to give the Nuarl's one last lap around the track. It would be a shame not to keep one, because they are such a work of are and the do sound fantastic, but honestly, they are a bit bulky and even though the T1x can be a bit biting on the highs at higher volume, it still sounds really fantastic enough that I think I could live without the NUARL's.


I had major problems with the touch buttons not working 90% of the time on 2 different sets.  There are lots of reviews on Amazon complaining of the same.  @webvan hadn't had similar issues so YMMV.  It might be something with my skin and whatever touch sensor they use, but I haven't ever had issues with touch on my Gbuds, Tranyas, Fiils, etc...  Other than that I loved them.  Sound was great with Spinfit CP360s and the ANR + Ambient were both amazing.


----------



## d3myz

hifi80sman said:


> It's time to rotate your stock.  Never let it get old.  Use returns in your favor.  Pay cash at Best Buy.  Never sweat the petty things and never pet the sweaty things.


That's good wisdom! I just think i'll be happier with a lot more ANC/Ambient products. Besides in 2 years when BT LC is the standard all this stuff will be obsolete anyway.


----------



## d3myz

turbobb said:


> @hifi80sman - so another I had considered because it's relatively new and touted ANC were these:
> https://www.amazon.com/dp/B083SKFDWX/
> 
> However, I believe the ANC only applies to calls... I still am curious about them though as I also would like a set that's really good for calls. Yet, the Bose 700 TWS beckons so just trying to be patient for those...


If you want to get them for review, hit up diwenhouse on FB messenger, they just sent me a link to test them. Not sure if i'm going to or not. but they look pretty nice.


----------



## d3myz (Jan 22, 2020)

I've asked about these before, they are 50% off on amazon U.S. Are they worth $30?



Edit: Thanks @XGUGU  I found your post on these. They seem like a steal for $30.
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/goi...re-we-there-yet.861024/page-970#post-15278512


----------



## voicemaster

d3myz said:


> yea, I've been meaning to give them a go. There was some talk about them a while back about an issue someone was having, don't remember what it was, maybe one of the earbuds losing charge or something so I kind of set them in the back corner of my mind. One of the reviews on amazon said they sound good but not as good as airpods or bose . Some people! Not sure what i'm going to do yet. I need to give the Nuarl's one last lap around the track. It would be a shame not to keep one, because they are such a work of are and the do sound fantastic, but honestly, they are a bit bulky and even though the T1x can be a bit biting on the highs at higher volume, it still sounds really fantastic enough that I think I could live without the NUARL's.



You can use foam tips to tame the high abit.


----------



## Francesco Montanari

following the hype train I bought Fiil T1X and I'm disappointed.

Sound is great but Driver Flex on left side is destroying everything, also case is too big and it doesn't seems solid. 

Now I understand why they costs 30$, unfortunately i paid them 60$... 

Back to the amazing Mifo o7 and their awesome sound, case and construction


----------



## vaaccess

Francesco Montanari said:


> following the hype train I bought Fiil T1X and I'm disappointed.
> 
> Sound is great but Driver Flex on left side is destroying everything, also case is too big and it doesn't seems solid.
> 
> Back to the amazing Mifo o7 and their awesome sound, case and construction



Can’t wait to get my Mifo o7 on Friday!!!

Is driver flex something that can happen like a manufacturer defect?  I am hating the silicon tips, but maybe part of my angst is driver flex in addition to the tips...?  I need to go google it to be sure I know what driver flex is specifically.

that said, I would agree that the T1x is not as fancy and robust as I’d expect to see with the Mifo o7.  However, the T1x for their normal price of <$50 seems to be a good deal for this SQ (assuming driver flex is a manufacturing defect).


----------



## d3myz

Just something i've noticed today while listening to my spunk beats. There is a high noise floor/ almost buzzing in both ear buds while the bluetooth is playing, querying siri and basically whenever they are in use, when i stop them the noise goes away after about 20-25 seconds.  I was laying down taking a ciesta today when I first noticed it. Anyway, I still love these things. I just wish they would update them so they have better touchpads and just overall a better build. The drivers sound great.


----------



## d3myz

vaaccess said:


> Can’t wait to get my Mifo o7 on Friday!!!
> 
> Is driver flex something that can happen like a manufacturer defect?  I am hating the silicon tips, but maybe part of my angst is driver flex in addition to the tips...?  I need to go google it to be sure I know what driver flex is specifically.
> 
> that said, I would agree that the T1x is not as fancy and robust as I’d expect to see with the Mifo o7.  However, the T1x for their normal price of <$50 seems to be a good deal for this SQ (assuming driver flex is a manufacturing defect).


I know a lot of people have mentioned the T1x and it's driver flex. I've had 3 pairs, my first didn't have flex, but i returned them to get my second on sale. My 2nd have zero flex in either side and I use silicon tips and my 3rd set I bought for my wife, so they are still in the box. I guess i'm going to have to hide her Rose Gold Pamu Scrolls . Also, my 2nd pair have been burned in using the app for roughly 1100 minutes. I'm not sure if that made a different, but they sure sounded better afterward.


----------



## Francesco Montanari

vaaccess said:


> Can’t wait to get my Mifo o7 on Friday!!!
> 
> Is driver flex something that can happen like a manufacturer defect?  I am hating the silicon tips, but maybe part of my angst is driver flex in addition to the tips...?  I need to go google it to be sure I know what driver flex is specifically.
> 
> that said, I would agree that the T1x is not as fancy and robust as I’d expect to see with the Mifo o7.  However, the T1x for their normal price of <$50 seems to be a good deal for this SQ (assuming driver flex is a manufacturing defect).



I think is related to poor construction or poor materials. Another thing i don't love of Fiil are controls, absolutely weird


----------



## d3myz

Francesco Montanari said:


> I think is related to poor construction or poor materials. Another thing i don't love of Fiil are controls, absolutely weird


I wasn’t a fan of the controls at first, but now I love them. I never forget how to operate them because they are so unique.


----------



## hifi80sman

vaaccess said:


> Can’t wait to get my Mifo o7 on Friday!!!
> 
> Is driver flex something that can happen like a manufacturer defect?  I am hating the silicon tips, but maybe part of my angst is driver flex in addition to the tips...?  I need to go google it to be sure I know what driver flex is specifically.
> 
> that said, I would agree that the T1x is not as fancy and robust as I’d expect to see with the Mifo o7.  However, the T1x for their normal price of <$50 seems to be a good deal for this SQ (assuming driver flex is a manufacturing defect).


Are people experiencing driver flex on mainly the L earbud?  I have the FIIL T1 (Micro USB version) and there is minor driver flex if I try to cause it (both sides), but under normal use circumstances, there's no driver flex.

The problem with Chi-Fi, is sketchy QC and altering of parts.


----------



## Francesco Montanari

hifi80sman said:


> Are people experiencing driver flex on mainly the L earbud?  I have the FIIL T1 (Micro USB version) and there is minor driver flex if I try to cause it (both sides), but under normal use circumstances, there's no driver flex.
> 
> The problem with Chi-Fi, is sketchy QC and altering of parts.


I think it depends also on ears anatomy. My left one needs always a different tip


----------



## chinmie

d3myz said:


> I noticed that Dyplay makes another ANC TWS. I wonder if it's any good. So the BQC35 doesn't have an ambient or transparency mode, is that correct?



there are several other products on AE that i suspect the same/similar with that Dyplay Shield

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000559667873.html

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000600012796.html

i messaged Dyplay to ask the difference between the BQC35 and the Shield, but they haven't respond yet (probably because of the CNY holiday).
But from reading the specs, they both have the same chipset and control scheme. Sound and fit might be different, because of form factor.

there's also this product from monster, but there seems to be no buyer yet
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000533222617.html



Extricated said:


> Hi everyone,
> 
> First time poster here - I'm looking for a pair of wireless buds but I'm a little stuck. Does anyone have any recommendations for something with an open soundstage (rather than the compressed feel of the SoundPeats Truengine SE), and a more balanced level rather than bass boosted?
> 
> ...



When you mean open soundstage, do you mean wide but like closed back headphone, or airy like open back headphone? because those are different..open back can sound intimate and airy, while closed back can sound wide and distant, but not airy.

For closed back type, i like the BQC35 (balanced with boosted subbass), Galaxy buds and Sony XM3, 
while for open back type, i like the Nillkin Go and Sabbat X12


----------



## georgelai57

hifi80sman said:


> Are people experiencing driver flex on mainly the L earbud?  I have the FIIL T1 (Micro USB version) and there is minor driver flex if I try to cause it (both sides), but under normal use circumstances, there's no driver flex.
> 
> The problem with Chi-Fi, is sketchy QC and altering of parts.


Is this driver flex audible when music is playing? Mine makes a squeaky kind of sound when I adjust them in my ears, with or without music playing. I tried with different tips from other IEMs and the sound is still there.


----------



## voicemaster

georgelai57 said:


> Is this driver flex audible when music is playing? Mine makes a squeaky kind of sound when I adjust them in my ears, with or without music playing. I tried with different tips from other IEMs and the sound is still there.


Use foam and it will completely eliminate it.


----------



## chinmie

And there's a new review of the Dyplay BCQ35 on youtube


----------



## vaaccess

Francesco Montanari said:


> I think is related to poor construction or poor materials. Another thing i don't love of Fiil are controls, absolutely weird



For what it's worth, I looked up Driver Flex and found this thread on the site:  https://www.head-fi.org/threads/driver-flex.817502/ 

I'm going to have to pay closer attention to the noise I was hearing with moving my mouth, etc, as that's when I heard what I thought was silicon tips adjusting.  That said, I don't think my experience was flex related...so that's good...


----------



## Francesco Montanari

voicemaster said:


> Use foam and it will completely eliminate it.


I don't like foam, btw I found a pair of silicon eartips from tennmak iem that mitigate a little the problem when I move my mouth but not when I need to change volume


----------



## LostnAmerica

mattedialdoc said:


> whoa that’s the first I’ve heard someone say that! I could wrap a piece a bacon around them for a tip and they would still sound better than most!!


I Love bacon!


----------



## rhsauer

webvan said:


> Sounds like you need the Echo Buds in a hurry as the ANR+Passive combo produces the most isolating setup I've ever used (way better than the APPs and also better than the XM3s is memory serves, remember it's not as "impressive" when turned on because the passive isolation is 5x better) and their ambient mode is very close to the APPs (and they have the neat option of tap for ambient+music pause), as for SQ it's absolutely fine to my ears, very nice sub bass. I'm still amazed that so few people here have tried them given their "addiction"  Yeah the box is rather large and is microUSB but frankly that's never been a problem for me.



I agree with @webvan -- I've been using the Echo Buds as my daily driver for a few weeks (which, of course, is an eternity in TWS time).  I actually gave my XM3's to a friend, because they never really worked for me -- and my APPs suffered from the failure to pass the fit test problem after a week or two of use.  (I've exchanged the APPs twice and that problem continues to manifest.)

I find the Echo Buds really convenient for commuting.  The ANC (or ANR) is effective, and the sound is more than adequate.  (If I want great sound, I listen to my L2Ps -- but the L2Ps don't isolate well enough for the subway.

I've also found the (outgoing) call quality of the Echo Buds to be very good, notwithstanding what Rtings.com had to say.

For commuting or air travel, ANC is a killer feature, and now that there are several options I can't imagine buying another pair of earphones for that purpose without ANC.

Finally, I hear there's a new firmware update rolling out for the Echo Buds that apparently tempers the bass a bit (though it's never bothered me) and adds volume control.  Looking forward to it.


----------



## Luke Skywalker (Jan 22, 2020)

Hey guys, hoping for some advice from the experts   I’m trying to find the BEST true wireless buds for sound regardless of price.  Looking for AAC and Aptx (ideally LDAC but that’s unlikely). Hoping for sound that compares to my JH Audio Lola’s

Active noise cancelling would be a plus but secondary to sound quality for Female vocals, guitar, classical and opera... 

Thanks for the help!


----------



## SoundChoice

vaaccess said:


> Do you or anyone else have a tip recommendation for the T1x?



Symbios are nice, but NewBee silicon removes most of the driver flex and gives good seal for bass.


----------



## HiFlight

Toom said:


> Anyone got the Jabra 75t and can compare to the Active 65t?


I have both and I consider the 75t to be more refined in nearly all respects, most notably in smaller size and fit. Most recent firmware update has also improved the SQ.


----------



## vaaccess

gibletzor said:


> I like the Auvios from Radio Shack with mine!



Good “tip”!

RadioShack has a set of S/M/L on sale for $1.49 and $5 shipping. 

So bought two sets of three for ~$8... just because...


----------



## Caipirina

Extricated said:


> Absolutely - But the Sabbbat ones fall closer to the ones on the left imo!


Glad we agree! If you scroll back and read my first response to you: that was exactly my point! Years ago, after I went crazy for IEMs, I discovered earbuds and their massive soundstage. So, naturally I bought way too many of those 
But the style is not to everyone’s liking. Took me quite a while (and lots of gentle pushing by @webvan ) until I’d found the right fit and felt comfortable running with them.


----------



## Inear

Review of 1more ANC:

ANC not good at Sony, and APP it looks like. 

https://webcache.googleusercontent....s-anc-review-28354/+&cd=5&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us


----------



## Luke Skywalker

LunaVixen said:


> Are there any adapters that turn regular IEMs wireless?



yep!  I just ordered this for my JH Lola’s. Does Aptx and AAC.  I’ll post back once I get it 

https://jhaudio.com/p/bluetooth-cable


----------



## HiFlight

SilverEars said:


> Crin's newest wireless reviews.  Tonal response needs to be worked on.  That bass on 75t is rediculous.  I wonder if they tried to shelf it like Harman and messed it up big time?
> 
> https://crinacle.com/2020/01/20/tws...edifier-elite-75t-liberty-2-pro-stylish-tevi/


I found that the recent firmware update reduced the bass to a more reasonable level.


----------



## Luke Skywalker

Twinster said:


> I got the Nuarl N6 Pro yesterday’s and so far they are the best sounding TWS with my iPhone 11 Pro but only IPX4. I tried the APP and returned them after 3 days. My next choice is the new Noble Falcon. Sound pretty good too and with their deep insertion they provide great isolation and IPX7.
> 
> I also have the Sony wf-1000 first generation and Jabra Elite 65 and both are good but if sound is your priority, the Nuarl is the winner for me.


Hey Twinster , this is great info!  I too have the Jabra 65’s and the sound is mediocre. 

have you listened to the Lypertek Tevi’s?  I wonder how those compare to the N6 Pro for female vocals, classical, guitar...  

Looking for the best possible TWS and struggling with the decision... rocking some JH Lola’s at the moment


----------



## Caipirina

chinmie said:


> And there's a new review of the Dyplay BCQ35 on youtube



This is encouraging! 

You also ordered something else called X7 if I recall correctly and they got back to you that for whatever reason they will send you X8? Those guys? 

 
Looking fwd to your impressions... I like the non-touch field buttons. And that shade of blue of the X8


----------



## Caipirina (Jan 23, 2020)

Connection related double post deleted.


----------



## bronco1015 (Jan 23, 2020)

Luke Skywalker said:


> Hey Twinster , this is great info!  I too have the Jabra 65’s and the sound is mediocre.
> 
> have you listened to the Lypertek Tevi’s?  I wonder how those compare to the N6 Pro for female vocals, classical, guitar...
> 
> Looking for the best possible TWS and struggling with the decision... rocking some JH Lola’s at the moment


IMO, the n6 pro might really be up your alley. The tevi's really stood out for a while due to their cost, SQ, use in mono mode, high IP rating etc. But they've now been surpassed by several models because of their weaknesses, a bit to forward and slightly piercing treble at medium/high volume, not enough bass for some, they don't quite sound as well rounded as the T1X but from what i remember from having them, it's pretty close. i liked the Tevi a lot, just wasn't worth the cost.
The n6 Pro, just have this full bodied consistent sound to them at nearly any volume. you don't have to crank them to get a front row seat to what they can achieve. if theres a specific recording you want an opinion on, i'd be happy to share one, but really especially at their current price, but even if they did cost mor, this is a get it and forget it purchase for a TOTL twe. it's nice to see a company put such an emphasis on SQ and who's product doesn't match the cost of a Truck/SUV payment. edit, no LDAC and or APTXHD in TWS as of yet.


----------



## DigDub

I'd also agree that the Nuarl N6 pro has the best sound quality of all the TWS I have so far. The sound from top to bottom sounds very natural with excellent timbre and plays any music genre well.


----------



## chinmie

Caipirina said:


> This is encouraging!
> 
> You also ordered something else called X7 if I recall correctly and they got back to you that for whatever reason they will send you X8? Those guys?
> 
> Looking fwd to your impressions... I like the non-touch field buttons. And that shade of blue of the X8



yup, i ordered the X7 from Lesozoh store. they messaged me that they currently out of stock at that time, and asked me if i would like them to send the X8 instead. i ordered the black color, although the blue one is indeed great looking.

haven't got any updates from the shipping status.. the 17track.net is not as up to date as it once was, but the last status is that it left china already


----------



## voicemaster

Luke Skywalker said:


> Hey Twinster , this is great info!  I too have the Jabra 65’s and the sound is mediocre.
> 
> have you listened to the Lypertek Tevi’s?  I wonder how those compare to the N6 Pro for female vocals, classical, guitar...
> 
> Looking for the best possible TWS and struggling with the decision... rocking some JH Lola’s at the moment



You could try the mifo 07.


----------



## gibletzor

vaaccess said:


> Good “tip”!
> 
> RadioShack has a set of S/M/L on sale for $1.49 and $5 shipping.
> 
> So bought two sets of three for ~$8... just because...


I bought several sets a while back too, because who knows how much longer Radio Shack will exist...   lol


----------



## 525667

I have the Sony WF-1000mx3. A caveat first, I hate using wires on the go. Wires never leave my house unless I have no other choice. 

That said, these are truly remarkable headphones from almost every front. 

The noise cancelling (while not as good as its bigger brother the WH) gets the job done. The talk of it being hard to get a decent seal are true, and since the case won't fit the length of typical memory foam buds, I have to stick with silicone. But I'm satisfied nonetheless.

Sound is noteworthy in a price-value examination. Quality bass without muddiness, does well with voices, is not too shrill in treble, and I have not as of yet noted silibance. I absolutely love the EQ settings, and surprisingly the app is not as bad as I've heard. For about $200 when you factor in the cost of ANC, I'm getting much more than I paid for. 

Battery is great, too. I charge them once every two weeks even when using them daily on the commute. The case seems cheap, though, and I wish I could have a switch for the charging. I'd rather not degrade the battery juicing up from 80% to 100% repeatedly. And like the WH, the touch controls can be a pain, especially when trying to insert these deeper, but given time I prefer them over buttons. Since I hate lugging around the WH all day, I use these 80% when I'm out and about.

I'm biased to ANC given that I'm extra sensitive to noise, and living in a city without them is utter hell. Bose has been losing touch, and Sony has give them a run for their money. I don't look for the best possible music experience on the go, but my Sonys have hit the sweet spot for my needs. If anyone has a better recommendation for sound + ANC I'm happy to hear it.


----------



## Caipirina

chinmie said:


> yup, i ordered the X7 from Lesozoh store. they messaged me that they currently out of stock at that time, and asked me if i would like them to send the X8 instead. i ordered the black color, although the blue one is indeed great looking.
> 
> haven't got any updates from the shipping status.. the 17track.net is not as up to date as it once was, but the last status is that it left china already


I am getting terribly itchy trigger finger. I fear ANC buds are going to be 2020’s black hole where most of my money goes ...
If it wasn’t for the current CNY delay (and/or some nice coupon, but no, select coupons only from 65$), I’d probably jumped the gun already.
Instead I am going to browse that store checking if there is anything at 10$ I need to get over the 65$
The more we buy - the more we save!


----------



## tma6 (Jan 23, 2020)

Luke Skywalker said:


> Hey guys, hoping for some advice from the experts   I’m trying to find the BEST true wireless buds for sound regardless of price.  Looking for AAC and Aptx (ideally LDAC but that’s unlikely). Hoping for sound that compares to my JH Audio Lola’s
> 
> Active noise cancelling would be a plus but secondary to sound quality for Female vocals, guitar, classical and opera...
> 
> Thanks for the help!



Definitely try out the N6 Pros. I wrote a full review earlier in this thread here if you want to get a sense of what they offer:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/goi...e-we-there-yet.861024/page-1213#post-15403547
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/goi...e-we-there-yet.861024/page-1213#post-15403547

In my opinion they are the best sounding TWS I’ve tried to date, though no ANC. Hope this helps!


----------



## tma6

hifi80sman said:


> Just ordered these guys.  13mm graphene driver, USB C, 15 hours battery (ANC off), QCC3026.  Anyone else try them yet?
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07XHH8HF5/
> 
> https://www.edifier.com/us/en/headphones-earphones/twsnb-true-wireless-earbud-headphones



Was definitely eying these. They look promising, but also a bit Gen 1 for Edifier with regard to ANC TWS. Let us know what you think!


----------



## voicemaster

Another song that sounds great with Mifo 07.


----------



## Toom

HiFlight said:


> I have both and I consider the 75t to be more refined in nearly all respects, most notably in smaller size and fit. Most recent firmware update has also improved the SQ.



That's great news, thanks for the reply.


----------



## chinmie

Caipirina said:


> I am getting terribly itchy trigger finger. I fear ANC buds are going to be 2020’s black hole where most of my money goes ...
> If it wasn’t for the current CNY delay (and/or some nice coupon, but no, select coupons only from 65$), I’d probably jumped the gun already.
> Instead I am going to browse that store checking if there is anything at 10$ I need to get over the 65$
> The more we buy - the more we save!



i got the X7 at 42.30 usd after coupon, so there's possibility it might dip in price a bit, seeing it was more than 70 usd when it's first out on AE

the other TWS that interest me is the Mifo, although it's bare bone with no ANC, etc.. but the IPX7 is interesting. i know it would be reliable as i dunked my old Mifo o5 in swimming pools and survived. 
buut... currently i already have the GGMM T1 for IPX7 TWS.. so my wallet is still relatively safe.. for now


----------



## Ultrainferno

de51red said:


> Saw it on aliexpress here
> 
> BGVP Q2 TWS Knowles Moving Iron HIFI Music Wireless Bluetooth 5.0 Headset Sports A Custom-ear Binaural Monitor MMCX Earphones
> https://s.click.aliexpress.com/e/EFeoVjVA
> ...



Today we review the soon to be released BGVP Q2 TWS IEM. Turns out the Quantum 2 is the best TWS we've ever heard up to today and that means a lot.

Available in the beginning of Februar on kickstarter for only $75-$109USD!

https://www.headfonia.com/bgvp-q2-review/


----------



## Francesco Montanari

Another Fiil T1X issue... yesterday they had english voice, today chinese, and there's no way to change it. What


----------



## Sunstealer

Loving my Bomaker Sifi so far. Quick to charge, great fit and isolation with Spinfit 240. I do get some footfall sound transmission but they stay stable in my ears.

I would say a laid-back, warm sound, V shaped with some mid recession. My Oneplus 6 gives a warm, liquid sound with an average soundstage. Naturally the DX220 is better in terms of resolution and control. Not going to replace my cabled IEMs but very convenient and great for travelling / commuting.

Might explore some more balanced / BA sets for podcasts.


----------



## rockappalla

Hi, i just got the Spunky beats, 
first off they sound much clearer than the Sabbat E12, but a lot less bass, I hate the touch controls though!! the Sabbat are perfect on the controls...

I have the "old" sabbat E12 without aptx, I read the the E12 ultra have more highs than the old...what's the opinion on the e12 ultras? do you thingk they are brighter than the regular E12s?


----------



## webvan

Francesco Montanari said:


> Another Fiil T1X issue... yesterday they had english voice, today chinese, and there's no way to change it. What


Weird, did you reinitalize them somehow or was there a FW update ?
Still better than having that horrible "fluttering static" in an earbud like two of us (right for me and left for the other) here have


----------



## webvan

chinmie said:


> And there's a new review of the Dyplay BCQ35 on youtube



No comments on passive isolation ? Some reviewers...


----------



## webvan (Jan 23, 2020)

Francesco Montanari said:


> following the hype train I bought Fiil T1X and I'm disappointed.
> 
> Sound is great but Driver Flex on left side is destroying everything, also case is too big and it doesn't seems solid.
> 
> ...



Same here, I really feel these have been overhyped here for some reason...bad driver flex in the left for me (and several others) and very annoying "fluttering static" in the right. Even assuming I got unlucky (but someone else has the "fluttering static" in the left) they just feel cheaply constructed overall. Much more so than any other TWEs I've had honestly (well apart from the $15 X12 clones (T8s ?)) and in the end the SQ is really nothing that special compared to the Bomakers or M5s and I won't even mention the L2Ps. Oh well, I hope Geekbuying make good on their "DOA warranty" and give me a full refund, including return shipping costs to China !


----------



## Francesco Montanari

webvan said:


> Weird, did you reinitalize them somehow or was there a FW update ?
> Still better than having that horrible "fluttering static" in an earbud like two of us (right for me and left for the other) here have



Unfortunately I have also the driver flex on the left...

I didn't reinitalize or update... They decided to speak chinese after the night


----------



## webvan (Jan 23, 2020)

Weird !



Trebor1966 said:


> You can buy it from italy, fastest delivery to UK:
> https://de.geekbuying.com/item/FIIL-T1X-Bluetooth-5-0-TWS-Earphones-AAC-SBC-Black-422271.html



I would NOT recommend getting them from Geekbuying, if you get a dud like me, it's like pulling teeth to get them to honor their DOA Policy, first they offer partial refunds, then you have to send it back to China (still trying to find out if it's on my own dime) and not to Italy, etc...With the repeated QC issues creeping up with the T1X I would not buy them anywhere else than on Amazon where you can send them back in a hurry.



hifi80sman said:


> A company like Amazon releasing something with Micro USB is quite confusing, but maybe they had to incorporate some "obsolescence" for Bose because they're looking to launch the 700 this year.  Shoot, even BLU phones are using USB C.



I agree that it's weird but it's such a minor inconvenience (actually zero for me) and honestly what's the likelihood anyone is going to run out of microUSB cables at any point in time ? I certainly would not let that get in the way of giving them a spin


----------



## Caipirina

webvan said:


> Same here, I really feel these have been overhyped here for some reason...bad driver flex in the left for me (and several others) and very annoying "fluttering static" in the right. Even assuming I got unlucky (but someone else has the "fluttering static" in the left) they just feel cheaply constructed overall. Much more so than any other TWEs I've had honestly (well apart from the $15 X12 clones (T8s ?)) and in the end the SQ is really nothing that special compared to the Bomakers or M5s and I won't even mention the L2Ps. Oh well, I hope Geekbuying make good on their "DOA warranty" and give me a full refund, including return shipping costs to China !



Now I feel SO MUCH Better that I missed this particular hype train


----------



## Trebor1966

webvan said:


> Weird !
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## chinmie

webvan said:


> No comments on passive isolation ? Some reviewers...



he also said the ANC is on par with the NuFlo(can't comment because i never heard of it) , the Sony noise cancelling buds (which one?? sure as heck not the XM3) , and the Powerbeats Pro (whaat? PBP has ANC??) 
to be positive, maybe either he's just didn't do enough critical comparison, or he's more of an average user compared to the usual Headfi-ers 

but on the other points that he said about it are pretty much on point


----------



## maricius

Sunstealer said:


> Loving my Bomaker Sifi so far. Quick to charge, great fit and isolation with Spinfit 240. I do get some footfall sound transmission but they stay stable in my ears.
> 
> I would say a laid-back, warm sound, V shaped with some mid recession. My Oneplus 6 gives a warm, liquid sound with an average soundstage. Naturally the DX220 is better in terms of resolution and control. Not going to replace my cabled IEMs but very convenient and great for travelling / commuting.
> 
> Might explore some more balanced / BA sets for podcasts.



Just wondering, with AptX or Bluetooth 5.0, is the data converted in the IEMs or on the device? If the former is the case and both are sending out the full-res file via AptX/BT 5.0, what would cause a difference in sound from your Oneplus 6 to the DX220? If some kind of compression still occurs in the device prior to sending out the signal via bluetooth or if both are using different codecs, I'd understand but I thought with these new BT codecs, files were being sent without compression?


----------



## Caipirina

chinmie said:


> he also said the ANC is on par with the NuFlo(can't comment because i never heard of it) , the Sony noise cancelling buds (which one?? sure as heck not the XM3) , and the Powerbeats Pro (whaat? PBP has ANC??)
> to be positive, maybe either he's just didn't do enough critical comparison, or he's more of an average user compared to the usual Headfi-ers
> 
> but on the other points that he said about it are pretty much on point



I was also puzzled why he mentioned the PBP, thought that he must mean the APP instead, but I was utterly distracted that he kept pronouncing especially as 'eXspecially' (3 Times!)

And yeah, those NuFlo are bulky as heck and first time I ever seen them!


----------



## d3myz (Jan 23, 2020)

Inear said:


> Review of 1more ANC:
> 
> ANC not good at Sony, and APP it looks like.
> 
> https://webcache.googleusercontent....s-anc-review-28354/+&cd=5&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us


 Reviewer "the sound quality, ANC and features aren't as good as the XM3, but they are smaller and have wireless charging, so you should buy them." 



Luke Skywalker said:


> yep!  I just ordered this for my JH Lola’s. Does Aptx and AAC.  I’ll post back once I get it
> 
> https://jhaudio.com/p/bluetooth-cable


 $150 for a BT cable? wow. I have 4 BT cables, got them before I got in to TWS. Personally, i'd recommend the BGVP, the silver plated one works great as well. These are also all over ebay for $20-30. https://penonaudio.com/index.php?route=product/search&search=bluetooth cable



webvan said:


> Same here, I really feel these have been overhyped here for some reason...bad driver flex in the left for me (and several others) and very annoying "fluttering static" in the right. Even assuming I got unlucky (but someone else has the "fluttering static" in the left) they just feel cheaply constructed overall. Much more so than any other TWEs I've had honestly (well apart from the $15 X12 clones (T8s ?)) and in the end the SQ is really nothing that special compared to the Bomakers or M5s and I won't even mention the L2Ps. Oh well, I hope Geekbuying make good on their "DOA warranty" and give me a full refund, including return shipping costs to China !


 That really sucks you're having issues with them. It doesn't sound like you're in a place where you can order them off Amazon etc, so I'm sure that's a pain. I'd just point out that if you have a pair of FIIL's that are duds and have bad driver flex, you may not be experiencing the same excellent sound quality as those of us who are. It seems like there are only a minority of folks having issues with them, but personally I've had a great experience with mine and I don't feel like they are cheaply constructed. I actually re-bought the Bowmaker to A/B with them. Even though I liked the Bowmaker a lot, I didn't feel like they were quite on the level of the T1x, in terms of mid range and clarity and to me the M5 isn't even in the conversation, but to each their own. Burn is is a must for the T1x.


----------



## WesennTony

Luke Skywalker said:


> Hey guys, hoping for some advice from the experts   I’m trying to find the BEST true wireless buds for sound regardless of price.  Looking for AAC and Aptx (ideally LDAC but that’s unlikely). Hoping for sound that compares to my JH Audio Lola’s
> 
> Active noise cancelling would be a plus but secondary to sound quality for Female vocals, guitar, classical and opera...
> 
> Thanks for the help!


To my ears, Aviot te-d01b are the best for the music genres you mentioned, surpassing their new flagship td-bd21f and other good candidate Nuarl N6 pro. The cons are limited button controls (only pause/play and skip next) and large charging case.


----------



## Alpaze

WesennTony said:


> To my ears, Aviot te-d01b are the best for the music genres you mentioned, surpassing their new flagship td-bd21f and other good candidate Nuarl N6 pro. The cons are limited button controls (only pause/play and skip next) and large charging case.


Interesting


----------



## vaaccess

Caipirina said:


> Now I feel SO MUCH Better that I missed this particular hype train



yeah. It would seem as though Quality Control isn’t great with the 1Tx or perhaps on-par with others that are similarly made and priced. That said, I haven’t experienced any of those issues with my pair.


----------



## DannyBai

Any recommendations in the $30-50 range with good sound?

thanks!


----------



## Jmm722

It seems like there isn’t a perfect TWS out yet.  I have the Jabra 65t, but wanted something with ANC, so I bought the APP.  I returned them after 10 days because the microphone was awful.  No one could hear me.  (My gf has a pair that work great for calls though).  Also, even when not making calls, one would drain 25-30% faster and they wouldn’t stay in my ears.

I commute into NYC for work and need ANC with transparency mode.  I also want something with at least sweat/water resistance.  Seems like nothing fits the bill at this time.

I was hoping that Bose would release the 700 tws because I get almost 50% off anything Bose.  I have the 700 headphones, but want portability

I don’t care about a budget, but I want the convenience of 1 pair that does it all.


----------



## d3myz

Jmm722 said:


> It seems like there isn’t a perfect TWS out yet.  I have the Jabra 65t, but wanted something with ANC, so I bought the APP.  I returned them after 10 days because the microphone was awful.  No one could hear me.  (My gf has a pair that work great for calls though).  Also, even when not making calls, one would drain 25-30% faster and they wouldn’t stay in my ears.
> 
> I commute into NYC for work and need ANC with transparency mode.  I also want something with at least sweat/water resistance.  Seems like nothing fits the bill at this time.
> 
> ...


I feel you about the APPs. My first pair were riddled with issues. My current pair are fantastic, they are also on the previous firmware so the ANC is still really good. Sound quality even EQ'd is meh. I also am looking for that one pair solution. I'm strongly considering the new Edifier.


----------



## d3myz

DannyBai said:


> Any recommendations in the $30-50 range with good sound?
> 
> thanks!


FIIL T1X, Looks like they went back up in price, but i'm sure they will be on sale again soon for around $35. Also the MPOW M5, EarFun Free, Tranya B530/Pro, Tranya T3, Bowmaker Sifi, all good options.


----------



## clerkpalmer

How is the sq on the previous edifier? Looks pretty compelling at 120. Tempting.


----------



## webvan

assassin10000 said:


> I only tried them on the Tronsmart Spunky Beats. They ended up being a little too large for my small ear canals, so I ended up returning them. I'd need a 10.5mm size if they ever make an XS version.
> 
> I did email ikko about that. Hopefully they do. I really like the design.



I've received my L sized ikko "glossy foam" tips and they work well on the Bomakers giving me a great seal and a good SQ (maybe a tad bassy) that is NOT muffled compared to what I always get with Complys (or clones). Unfortunately they do not fit in the case...Maybe the M sized tips would.


----------



## d3myz

WesennTony said:


> To my ears, Aviot te-d01b are the best for the music genres you mentioned, surpassing their new flagship td-bd21f and other good candidate Nuarl N6 pro. The cons are limited button controls (only pause/play and skip next) and large charging case.


I like how their model names are simple and easy to remember. Just kind of rolls off the tongue. I'm kidding, but My interest is peaked with the TE-D01B. The design looks akin to the MPOW T5/M5 and the Tevi.


----------



## WesennTony

d3myz said:


> I like how their model names are simple and easy to remember. Just kind of rolls off the tongue. I'm kidding, but My interest is peaked with the TE-D01B. The design looks akin to the MPOW T5/M5 and the Tevi.


I've never cracked their naming code, neither with Nuarl. Maybe make more sense in Japanese?


----------



## Luke Skywalker

WesennTony said:


> To my ears, Aviot te-d01b are the best for the music genres you mentioned, surpassing their new flagship td-bd21f and other good candidate Nuarl N6 pro. The cons are limited button controls (only pause/play and skip next) and large charging case.


Thanks so much for the advice!  Wish I’d joined head-fi years ago...  I just ordered the N6’s.  The Aviot’s look cool too however they had a pretty long shipping time on amazon.  Might order those too


----------



## Luke Skywalker

d3myz said:


> $150 for a BT cable? wow. I have 4 BT cables, got them before I got in to TWS. Personally, i'd recommend the BGVP, the silver plated one works great as well. These are also all over ebay for $20-30. https://penonaudio.com/index.php?route=product/search&search=bluetooth cable


Wow that looks sweet. Thanks


----------



## Luke Skywalker

bronco1015 said:


> IMO, the n6 pro might really be up your alley. The tevi's really stood out for a while due to their cost, SQ, use in mono mode, high IP rating etc. But they've now been surpassed by several models because of their weaknesses, a bit to forward and slightly piercing treble at medium/high volume, not enough bass for some, they don't quite sound as well rounded as the T1X but from what i remember from having them, it's pretty close. i liked the Tevi a lot, just wasn't worth the cost.
> The n6 Pro, just have this full bodied consistent sound to them at nearly any volume. you don't have to crank them to get a front row seat to what they can achieve. if theres a specific recording you want an opinion on, i'd be happy to share one, but really especially at their current price, but even if they did cost mor, this is a get it and forget it purchase for a TOTL twe. it's nice to see a company put such an emphasis on SQ and who's product doesn't match the cost of a Truck/SUV payment. edit, no LDAC and or APTXHD in TWS as of yet.


That’s great thank You.  Just ordered the N6’s


----------



## DannyBai

d3myz said:


> FIIL T1X, Looks like they went back up in price, but i'm sure they will be on sale again soon for around $35. Also the MPOW M5, EarFun Free, Tranya B530/Pro, Tranya T3, Bowmaker Sifi, all good options.


Thanks!!


----------



## hifi80sman

Got the Edifiers last night, tested them out, and it's a mixed bag.

ANC
Pretty good, not quite the level of the XM3 or APP, but with the passive isolation and ANC on, it's good.  I have a portable fan/space heater I use in my office and it cuts about 85% of the noise.  Definitely usable ANC.

FIT
Meh, not the best.  Not uncomfortable, but they are not the most secure.  The ear hooks actually rest against the bottom of your ear near the earbud base, not at the top like Bose, etc.  They don't provide much stability for me and fit me similar as the XM3 does, which is meh.

SOUND
Deep bass, which I expected from the 13mm drivers.  It's a fairly good bass, too, with decent texture.  Mids are pulled back a bit, so not for those that love forward vocals, but it's not bad overall.  The highs, well, I don't like them.  It's not that they're too sharp, etc., but they sound very metallic and artificial.

DEFECT
The unit I received was defective when activating ambient mode.  basically, the L earbud mic sensitivity was probably 100% higher than the R side, so it was unnaturally noisy (lots of hissing) on the L earbud, while I could hardly tell if ambient mode was activated on the R earbud.  There are also announcements when changing modes, which is annoying (ambient should be instant on with no announcement so you can hear what you need to hear).

CONCLUSION
Returned.


----------



## d3myz

Anyone else have an N6 pro that literally takes 30 seconds to connect to the iphone? Man, they delay is ridiculous. I've reset them a bunch of times but there's some kind of lag and I don't know why.


----------



## d3myz

hifi80sman said:


> Got the Edifiers last night, tested them out, and it's a mixed bag.
> 
> ANC
> Pretty good, not quite the level of the XM3 or APP, but with the passive isolation and ANC on, it's good.  I have a portable fan/space heater I use in my office and it cuts about 85% of the noise.  Definitely usable ANC.
> ...


Well, Thanks for being our guinea pig. That's a shame. (Frowns in 7 of 9)


----------



## d3myz

Got Hieha B6 today. Y'all ready for some painfully amateur impressions? 

Aesthetics- Touch Controls are the opposite of the Spunky Beats, not sensitive at all, but they work fine. The housing on these fellas is big, but they actually fit well and have good passive noise isolation. They are the same length as the NUARL N6/Pro and close to the same width. Case is super cool and made well. Good magnetic case closure and headphones have strong magnets holding the in. 

Functionality - Pairing was easy, Wireless charging is great, USB -C charging port location is a little weird because of the case. I really like the case. Lights don't blink while in use and it doesn't seem to beep when starting and stopping tracks.

Sound - These def. have a dark sound, so I pulled out the 1more Stylish and the Ofushu F16 to A/B/C test them. I'll save some time by saying the sound is unremarkable, even the F16 which I find to be one of the best mediocre sounding TWS', sound better in every area. The stylish sounds fantastic in comparison.  Then I popped in the Nuarl N6 and it felt like the first day of spring after a long cold winter being holed up in a cabin in rural Alaska. WELP, looks like i'm not returing the N6 afterall, but the B6 is def. going back. With all the praise the Whizzer got, I have to imaging they sounded better then this clone.


----------



## wksoh (Jan 23, 2020)

webvan said:


> Same here, I really feel these have been overhyped here for some reason...bad driver flex in the left for me (and several others) and very annoying "fluttering static" in the right. Even assuming I got unlucky (but someone else has the "fluttering static" in the left) they just feel cheaply constructed overall. Much more so than any other TWEs I've had honestly (well apart from the $15 X12 clones (T8s ?)) and in the end the SQ is really nothing that special compared to the Bomakers or M5s and I won't even mention the L2Ps. Oh well, I hope Geekbuying make good on their "DOA warranty" and give me a full refund, including return shipping costs to China !



Wish I could enjoy the sonic experience of T1X like most here. I don't really know about driver flex.
I'm more confounded by the sound quality. The highs and lows are good. Cymbals and bells sound great
But in my opinion, tonality for instruments in the middle frequencies are recessed too much.

I'm sure some folks here play in a band:.... For example -
1) Voices are unaturally shrill and thin.
2) Les Paul humbucker distortions are supposed to sound ballsy - but sounds really thin and sharp in the T1X.
3) I also felt the snare drums flare and thin out.

At louder volumes, #1,2,3 become more pronounced.
I'm not using the T1X for guitar or rock music as I need the ballsy mids  .


----------



## vladzakhar

d3myz said:


> Anyone else have an N6 pro that literally takes 30 seconds to connect to the iphone? Man, they delay is ridiculous. I've reset them a bunch of times but there's some kind of lag and I don't know why.





d3myz said:


> Anyone else have an N6 pro that literally takes 30 seconds to connect to the iphone? Man, they delay is ridiculous. I've reset them a bunch of times but there's some kind of lag and I don't know why.


Somebody posted this solution for reset:
Well, I'll be damned. NUARL support helped me fix the right N6 Pro bud. So as I mentioned it was stuck on the quick flashing white led and no matter what I tried I could not get it to pair etc. Support told me to reset the left bud hold the main button wait for 3 higher pitched beeps and then once the white light is solid double click. Had to do it twice, but the left bud kicked into reset mode as well. I put them down and waited about 5 min. as instructed until they powered themselves off. Turned them back on waited until the stopped the initialization white flashes, then the flashed fast white again for a couple seconds and BOOM! back to intermittent white flashing. Now the right will pair. Thanks NUARL!!


----------



## vaaccess

Jmm722 said:


> I don’t care about a budget, but I want the convenience of 1 pair that does it all.



I hear ya. I would agree that a perfect single solution is not there yet from everything I’ve read as well. 
The only glimmer of hopes I’ve heard about are the Bose 700TWS as you mentioned, and the Klipsch $660 TWS due at the end of the year. (Was it the T10?)


----------



## d3myz

wksoh said:


> Wish I could enjoy the sonic experience of T1X like most here. I don't really know about driver flex.
> I'm more confounded by the sound quality. The highs and lows are good. Cymbals and bells sound great
> But in my opinion, tonality for instruments in the middle frequencies are recessed too much.
> 
> ...


 How long have you used them? did you burn them in? I know there's mixed opinions on burn in with headphones and I know I sound like a broken record, but after letting mine run through almost 3 full 8 hour cycles of increasing white noise from the app, the difference was very noticeable. I agree with you about the sharpness at higher volumes, they definitely don't have thick mids like say the N6/Pro, or the M5. I had the same problem with the Bowmaker, they hurt my ears when it got loud. However, using the Bass EQ setting with the T1x helped quite a bit. Also, something else I've been noticing lately is that the low profile ear tips, the ones that are really short and snug to the nozzle, seem to always give me more mid-range no matter which TWS i'm using. Less bass as well. I'm sure it has something to do with the physics involved, but I thought i'd mention that. A good example is the tips that come on the bowmaker or the Tiso T1 and a bunch of other TWS'.  



vladzakhar said:


> Somebody posted this solution for reset:
> Well, I'll be damned. NUARL support helped me fix the right N6 Pro bud. So as I mentioned it was stuck on the quick flashing white led and no matter what I tried I could not get it to pair etc. Support told me to reset the left bud hold the main button wait for 3 higher pitched beeps and then once the white light is solid double click. Had to do it twice, but the left bud kicked into reset mode as well. I put them down and waited about 5 min. as instructed until they powered themselves off. Turned them back on waited until the stopped the initialization white flashes, then the flashed fast white again for a couple seconds and BOOM! back to intermittent white flashing. Now the right will pair. Thanks NUARL!!



 I appreciate you taking the time to help, that was very thoughtful. I'm actually the one who posted that. . Seems like I may have just gotten a dud, because my N6's pair almost immediately.


----------



## vaaccess

d3myz said:


> How long have you used them? did you burn them in? I know there's mixed opinions on burn in with headphones and I know I sound like a broken record, but after letting mine run through almost 3 full 8 hour cycles of increasing white noise from the app, the difference was very noticeable.



good grief, I didn’t realize they had a burn-in function in the app!  The app isn’t displaying well for me, so that whole top edge is just basically a sliver. But I was able to get into it and am burning them in via the app. Cool!


----------



## FYLegend

Is there anywhere that ships T1X via ePacket to Canada? I'm uneasy about Geekbuying from the impressions here and how they probably handled my Tronsmart Aliexpress order. Found it odd that there was a Geekbuying label on my was labelled as coming from Ontario despite tracking saying otherwise.


----------



## caprimulgus (Jan 23, 2020)

d3myz said:


> $150 for a BT cable? wow.



Check the price Sennheiser is charging for IEN BT (bluetooth neckband for IE8/IE80 range)...lol


($349.95AUD here, which is like $240USD!!!)


----------



## Luke Skywalker

d3myz said:


> How long have you used them? did you burn them in? I know there's mixed opinions on burn in with headphones and I know I sound like a broken record, but after letting mine run through almost 3 full 8 hour cycles of increasing white noise from the app, the difference was very noticeable.


Hey dumb question... how would I go about burning in the N6 Pro’s when they arrive?  I.e. I could pair them to my windows pc.  Is their an application or something I’d run at that point?


----------



## d3myz

vaaccess said:


> good grief, I didn’t realize they had a burn-in function in the app!  The app isn’t displaying well for me, so that whole top edge is just basically a sliver. But I was able to get into it and am burning them in via the app. Cool!


Yea, it's funky on my Iphone too, the whole top is cut off and it's hard to see the triple lines. The Eq's are pretty good, wish there was a manual EQ.


----------



## assassin10000 (Jan 23, 2020)

I typically burn in with Jlab's burn in audio file. Its sweeps, noise and periods of silence mixed in. It's on soundcloud via their webpage.

Play at your normal listening volume or maybe 1 click higher.


----------



## d3myz

FYLegend said:


> Is there anywhere that ships T1X via ePacket to Canada? I'm uneasy about Geekbuying from the impressions here and how they probably handled my Tronsmart Aliexpress order. Found it odd that there was a Geekbuying label on my was labelled as coming from Ontario despite tracking saying otherwise.


I was searching the web and found this site. Says you can shop on Amazon.us and ship to Canada. http://www.borderlinx.com/CA/en/pages/buy-on-amazon-com-and-ship-to-canada/


----------



## vaaccess

d3myz said:


> Yea, it's funky on my Iphone too, the whole top is cut off and it's hard to see the triple lines. The Eq's are pretty good, wish there was a manual EQ.


 
Yeah, hopefully they will add a manual EQ with a future app release. I think the options provided are pretty good. Have you moved off of Original?  I think I prefer it the most at this point.


----------



## d3myz

caprimulgus said:


> Check the price Sennheiser is charging for IEN BT (bluetooth neckband for IE8/IE80 range)...lol
> 
> 
> ($349.95AUD here, which is like $240USD!!!)


 Wow. That's highway robbery.



Luke Skywalker said:


> Hey dumb question... how would I go about burning in the N6 Pro’s when they arrive?  I.e. I could pair them to my windows pc.  Is their an application or something I’d run at that point?


I pair mine with my ipad or my Mac and run this playlist until they die. Then I start from the top and do it again I don't know much about volume levels but the first time through I keep it relatively low, then I raise it to about 50-75% the 2nd run. Should take around two full battery cycles 14-16 hours. I"m going to have to check out that JLAB audio file that @assassin10000 mentioned too. 



assassin10000 said:


> I typically burn in with Jlab's burn in audio file. Its sweeps, noise and periods of silence mixed in. It's on soundcloud via their webpage.


Thanks! i'll check this out for sure.


----------



## d3myz

vaaccess said:


> Yeah, hopefully they will add a manual EQ with a future app release. I think the options provided are pretty good. Have you moved off of Original?  I think I prefer it the most at this point.


Yes, I pretty much always use Bass. Default for books and I like Meta eq setting sometimes.


----------



## voicemaster

Luke Skywalker said:


> Hey dumb question... how would I go about burning in the N6 Pro’s when they arrive?  I.e. I could pair them to my windows pc.  Is their an application or something I’d run at that point?


Just search "white noise" on youtube and let it play with your TWS of choice.


----------



## cwill

d3myz said:


> Yes, I pretty much always use Bass. Default for books and I like Meta eq setting sometimes.


Anyone know why the app is gone from the Play Store still?


----------



## Inear

Bose 500/700 coming soon? Cleared FCC.

https://www.youtube.com/post/UgzYRNjAkvoZ0kLlRJF4AaABCQ


----------



## wksoh (Jan 23, 2020)

d3myz said:


> How long have you used them? did you burn them in? I know there's mixed opinions on burn in with headphones and I know I sound like a broken record, but after letting mine run through almost 3 full 8 hour cycles of increasing white noise from the app, the difference was very noticeable.



Thanx I didn't know there was a burn in function.. I may try that. But it's packed in a return box.... Hmmm


----------



## idsyphe

Been using my Fiil T1X the last few days, had the driver flex in the left like many others but seems to have settled now which is a bit weird. Think I prefer the sound of the Shanling MTW100, some say it's colder but I found the treble is just tamed a wee bit compared to the Fiil


----------



## Caipirina (Jan 24, 2020)

Received a cheap ‘clone’ of the Sabbath X12, aptly called the YA12 today.
Here is what 10.85$ (after coupons) gets you in this day and age: LOTS OF LIGHTS!!!



Somewhere between New York police car and failed Xmas ornament!

now, the surprising part: they actually work! I had no trouble pairing and they play ok. They sound ‘meh’ no surprise there, but not a total fail. Might be able to smooth things out a bit with foams.

the built feels super cheap compared to the X12, case is hard to open ... so, basically stay away


----------



## d3myz

voicemaster said:


> Just search "white noise" on youtube and let it play with your TWS of choice.


I've read you want to use Pink noise to burn in at med. volume and freq. sweeps. Jlabs app actually suggests you burn in for 40 hours, 5+ hours a day for a week.


----------



## thimantha (Jan 24, 2020)

Just got these babies. First impressions are very good. I feel like the buds are a little bit better built than the GT1s.

Oh BTW for anyone who might not know. The QCY QS2s are also now updated with dual-channel Bluetooth meaning that the annoying master/slave configuration is now gone for good in the new units they're shipping.


----------



## Francesco Montanari

*New Adventures in T1X.*

This morning they were english speaking again! And maybe I understood why: on my android phone i use chinese app since global one is not working and on ipad pro i use global app.

The last used device decide the language 

I'm happy to share also that with the double flange eartip from Tennmak Crazy Cello the driver flex is gone when i wear them (but not whrn i touch the left bud)

So... great sound (really great) but not perfect


----------



## Mouseman

Caipirina said:


> Received a cheap ‘clone’ of the Sabbath X12, aptly called the YA12 today.
> Here is what 10.85$ (after coupons) gets you in this day and age: LOTS OF LIGHTS!!!
> 
> 
> ...


Are those lights from the buds shining through, or additional ones in the case? Please tell me they flash.....


----------



## Caipirina

Mouseman said:


> Are those lights from the buds shining through, or additional ones in the case? Please tell me they flash.....



They DID flash like crazy, exactly like police car lights. BUT, I just tried to replicate this for a video, and it appears it only does the super nervous flashing before it pairs with a source the first time. Since it does know my phone now, it did not flash anymore. The top red/blue are the buds in the case themselves, the lower blue is the battery indicator. 

And the buds flash blue when in ear like every 3 seconds. Heck annoying, total reason not wanting to be seen in the wild with them.


----------



## funkymartyn

Good price now for the Anker soundcore liberty  2,   and the  2  pro ..via amazon.
I have gone for the pro 2  at  £99


----------



## funkymartyn

ukbiker said:


> For those of you in the UK, there is a sale on the Soundcore Liberty 2's at £69 on amazon.co.uk (with £20 voucher off)
> I bought these and received them but unfortunately they also have the dreaded 'hiss'. I contacted Anker so let's see.
> Have any of you received the L2P Pros or these without hiss, as a replacement from Anker?
> Still these have amazing sound at higher volumes but lower volumes and audiobooks it's very noticable to my ears


I did read a bit about this on both ear buds,  but today I went for it..ordered the  pro  2  at  £99  Amazon deal...the normal 2 are £65 ….so let's see what I can hear.


----------



## Bartig

Oh man, I just totally loved the Fiil T1X... and now the Edifier TWS6 comes in. A bit above 100 dollars unfortunately, and quite minimal in features, but these sound SO good.


----------



## Grayson73

Odioer said:


> My SSKs have absolutely no thud. I thought they were 1-1 clone of anbes. Apparently SSK have done some r&d. Nice.



Both of my SSK are identical and have much more thud than my Anbes 359.


----------



## assassin10000 (Jan 24, 2020)

Found another set of TWS friendly foam tips, slightly different sizes than the ikko i-planet ones.

Misodiko TWS-Pro
https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B07RJKTHSG
https://m.aliexpress.com/item/33012603612.html

Edit, found cheaper sold as pairs:
https://m.aliexpress.com/item/4000482730406.html





Ikko sizes:


----------



## vaaccess

assassin10000 said:


> Found another set of TWS friendly foam tips, slightly different sizes than the ikko i-planet ones.
> 
> Misodiko TWS-Pro
> https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B07RJKTHSG
> ...



those look interesting. Should I expect that they will fit on most TWS brands?  I don’t have enough experience personally to know for sure.


----------



## d3myz (Jan 24, 2020)

Bartig said:


> Oh man, I just totally loved the Fiil T1X... and now the Edifier TWS6 comes in. A bit above 100 dollars unfortunately, and quite minimal in features, but these sound SO good.


Great review, Scarbir! A couple questions for you. Did you burn in the T1x and are you using it on Bass EQ setting or Default? The T1x is one of the brighter yet full bodied TWS' I've heard. If the TWS6 makes it sound warm, how would you describe the Mpow T5/M5 or SSK/Anbes 359. I looked at your reviews to see how you described them, but the description was a bit different. The NUARL N6 is kind of a Anomaly, it's warmer than the T1x yet very detailed with excellent detail and clarity, but it's not quite as full as the T1x probably due to the missing sub-bass. Listening to the M5's today, i'd say they sound significantly warmer than the t1x and something like the 1more stylish would be very warm even darker sounding. however the Hieha B6 (the clone of the Whizzer B6) was just straight up Dark and pretty much muddy and unenjoyable to listen to.


----------



## d3myz

vaaccess said:


> those look interesting. Should I expect that they will fit on most TWS brands?  I don’t have enough experience personally to know for sure.


From Amazon:

Suitable for most True Wireless Bluetooth Earbuds with Keyway Nozzle [ Fits in The Case ] (not limited to) : Jabra Elite 75t, Elite 65t, Active Elite 65t, Elite Sport, Evolve 65t/ Creative Outlier Air, Outlier Gold/ Sennheiser Momentum True Wireless/ Bragi The Dash Pro, The Headphone/ Samsung Gear IconX, Galaxy Buds/ Hifiman TWS600/ Anker Soundcore Liberty 2 Pro, Liberty 2, Liberty Neo, Liberty, ZOLO Liberty, Liberty Air 2, Liberty Air, Life P2/ JLab Audio JBuds Air/-Mifo O5/ and much more...


----------



## assassin10000 (Jan 24, 2020)

vaaccess said:


> those look interesting. Should I expect that they will fit on most TWS brands?  I don’t have enough experience personally to know for sure.



According to Misodiko you need a good solid retention lip. What they call keyway style nozzle.



So look at your TWS without a tip to determine if it'll work.


Just found them sold in pairs for cheap:
https://m.aliexpress.com/item/4000482730406.html


----------



## thimantha

Caipirina said:


> And the buds flash blue when in ear like every 3 seconds.



I don't understand why a lot of TWS manufacturers do this. I am yet to find anyone who likes this 'feature'.


----------



## vaaccess

assassin10000 said:


> According to Misodiko you need a good solid retention lip. What they call keyway style nozzle.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



that graphic was great!

I used my calipers to measure the 1Tx, it is exactly as shown. 5mm at the outer most part of the lip and 4mm on the inner part of the lip. So by measurement, they should work perfectly for the 1Tx. 

when I get the mifo o7 later today I’ll measure those too.


----------



## Caipirina (Jan 24, 2020)

thimantha said:


> I don't understand why a lot of TWS manufacturers do this. I am yet to find anyone who likes this 'feature'.


I wonder if flashing lights and golden ‘bling’ are ingrained in Chinese culture as more beautiful / more valuable.
( a bit like the flashing disco lights behind Buddha statues in Sri Lanka. Not fully understanding that either  )


----------



## HiFlight

wksoh said:


> Wish I could enjoy the sonic experience of T1X like most here. I don't really know about driver flex.
> I'm more confounded by the sound quality. The highs and lows are good. Cymbals and bells sound great
> But in my opinion, tonality for instruments in the middle frequencies are recessed too much.
> 
> ...


You might want to try some of the different presets available in the FllL+ app.  Not counting the default, there are 14 more to choose from.


----------



## stormwrx (Jan 24, 2020)

Just watched this J. Williams preview of the 1More True Wireless ANC:



He has a coupon code for $20 off if you preorder from 1More: SMARTPHONECONVERSATIONS

Purchase link: 
https://usa.1more.com/?rfsn=2429798.e86799

I couldn't resist, so I ordered them.


----------



## webvan

assassin10000 said:


> Found another set of TWS friendly foam tips, slightly different sizes than the ikko i-planet ones.
> 
> Misodiko TWS-Pro
> https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B07RJKTHSG
> ...



Nice find. I've been using the ikkos size L with the Bomaker and they provide stellar isolation and none of that muffled sound typical of the Comply tips. The highs are just very slightly "tamed" but it's acceptable. The left tip is very slightly large though and puts too much pressure on my ear canal so I'll probably get the Misodiko S/M/L combo from Amazon to see which size works best before ordering pairs on AE.


----------



## Caipirina (Jan 24, 2020)

I am rediscovering my 1more stylish 1026BT and wanted to double check if they have any kind of waterproof rating (still no clue, some AliX sellers claim ‘waterproof: yes’) and I came across their US website and it appears there’s now an APP!!!!
Which adds OTA updates for fancy extra features like volume control on MFB

now, before I potentially brick my set, I wanted to ask if anyone has played with this already (app was just updated 4 days ago)

Oh, and is there any IPX rating?

btw, I am testing them with the slightly bigger than usual L sized tips that came with the PoweBeats Pro, and they sound amazing like this!


 

(edit) ... that was rather anti-climactic: the app does not recognize my set. Maybe because I don’t have the 1026BT-I version? Or I have the Chinese hardware, but English app? Or I can’t find my bar code? Maybe others have more luck. The app comes with a burn in Programm which I imagine works also for other headphones. Kinda handy.


----------



## d3myz

thimantha said:


> I don't understand why a lot of TWS manufacturers do this. I am yet to find anyone who likes this 'feature'.


I think initially it was used to indicate the status of the buds, powered on etc.


Caipirina said:


> I am rediscovering my 1more stylish 1026BT and wanted to double check if they have any kind of waterproof rating (still no clue, some AliX sellers claim ‘waterproof: yes’) and I came across their US website and it appears there’s now an APP!!!!
> Which adds OTA updates for fancy extra features like volume control on MFB
> 
> now, before I potentially brick my set, I wanted to ask if anyone has played with this already (app was just updated 4 days ago)
> ...


Awesome! i'll have to pull mine out and try it. Any EQ in the app?


----------



## assassin10000 (Feb 3, 2020)

So I got the Mavin Air-XR QI yesterday and I'm fairly happy with them.

Initial sound is good, maybe a mild V but truly more L shaped. No sibilance thus far. I listen at low to med volumes though. These things dig deep, at 50% volume on a frequency test I can clearly hear 20hz.

The QI charging placement is finicky due to the awesomely small size of the case. But it does work on 2 of 3 of my QI chargers.

I was testing the IPX7 rating and had too small tips in, so one side fell out and ended up completely submerged lol. Fortunately it's fine. Test passed  .

My prompts are all in Japanese but that doesn't bother me. I've emailed Mavin to see if it can be changed to English.


----------



## Francesco Montanari

Caipirina said:


> I am rediscovering my 1more stylish 1026BT and wanted to double check if they have any kind of waterproof rating (still no clue, some AliX sellers claim ‘waterproof: yes’) and I came across their US website and it appears there’s now an APP!!!!
> Which adds OTA updates for fancy extra features like volume control on MFB
> 
> now, before I potentially brick my set, I wanted to ask if anyone has played with this already (app was just updated 4 days ago)
> ...



Be sure to use 1more music app for Chinese stylish since the other app only work with international pairs
I did it with the music app and they are up to date now


----------



## Caipirina

d3myz said:


> Awesome! i'll have to pull mine out and try it. Any EQ in the app?



seems like. Have not figured out how it works. Guess music must be played through that app?


----------



## Caipirina

Francesco Montanari said:


> Be sure to use 1more music app for Chinese stylish since the other app only work with international pairs
> I did it with the music app and they are up to date now


Thanks!!! Soooo, I shall take the music app instead of the assistant app? Apple only gives me those 2 choices.


----------



## Francesco Montanari

Caipirina said:


> Thanks!!! Soooo, I shall take the music app instead of the assistant app? Apple only gives me those 2 choices.


Yes 1more music

You have to upgrade left bud first and then the right one


----------



## d3myz

thimantha said:


> I don't understand why a lot of TWS manufacturers do this. I am yet to find anyone who likes this 'feature'.


I think initially it was used to indicate the status of the buds, powered on etc.


----------



## d3myz

Caipirina said:


> I am rediscovering my 1more stylish 1026BT and wanted to double check if they have any kind of waterproof rating (still no clue, some AliX sellers claim ‘waterproof: yes’) and I came across their US website and it appears there’s now an APP!!!!
> Which adds OTA updates for fancy extra features like volume control on MFB
> 
> now, before I potentially brick my set, I wanted to ask if anyone has played with this already (app was just updated 4 days ago)
> ...


Mine worked. I was able to update both buds. volume control is now 1 click L down and 1 click R up and play/pause is two. EQ only works for onboard music, not streaming tracks.  I do like the burn in feature. the first phase is 12 hours. jeez.


----------



## Caipirina

Francesco Montanari said:


> Yes 1more music
> 
> You have to upgrade left bud first and then the right one


Done and DONE! Now I have volume control! Hooray!!!! 
What’s you opinion on how waterproof/sweatproof these babies are? I still find conflicting info ... sound guys say ‘sweatproof’ but not giving a source.


----------



## d3myz

Caipirina said:


> Done and DONE! Now I have volume control! Hooray!!!!
> What’s you opinion on how waterproof/sweatproof these babies are? I still find conflicting info ... sound guys say ‘sweatproof’ but not giving a source.


Shrink wrap them?


----------



## Francesco Montanari

Caipirina said:


> Done and DONE! Now I have volume control! Hooray!!!!
> What’s you opinion on how waterproof/sweatproof these babies are? I still find conflicting info ... sound guys say ‘sweatproof’ but not giving a source.


 Well done!

If I remember well they don't have any ip certification, they are generically "ready for workouts"


----------



## erockg

assassin10000 said:


> So I got the Mavin Air-XR QI yesterday and I'm fairly happy with them.
> 
> Initial sound is fairly balanced, maybe a mild V. No sibilance thus far. I listen at low to med volumes though. These things dig deep, at 50% volume on a frequency test I can clearly hear 20hz.
> 
> ...



I've had three pairs, all with Japanese language.  Mavin said to return them because they were sent to Amazon by mistake.  Language cannot be changed on them.  That said, after four pairs, all in Japanese, I returned them.  Form factor was great, but the tempermental Qi charging drove me nuts.  I'm rocking the Libratone Track Air+ this week.  The addiction never stops.


----------



## rhsauer

erockg said:


> I've had three pairs, all with Japanese language.  Mavin said to return them because they were sent to Amazon by mistake.  Language cannot be changed on them.  That said, after four pairs, all in Japanese, I returned them.  Form factor was great, but the tempermental Qi charging drove me nuts.  I'm rocking the Libratone Track Air+ this week.  The addiction never stops.



I just ordered the Track Air+ and they'll arrive on Sunday.  How do you like them?


----------



## webvan

I've written about my experiences with them before but since you like the stellar isolation and rich SQ of the Amazon Echo Buds I'm afraid you're not going to like them but you be the judge !


----------



## erockg

rhsauer said:


> I just ordered the Track Air+ and they'll arrive on Sunday.  How do you like them?


I dig them.  The form factor is great.  ANC is decent, but not as good as the APP or Sonys.  Case Qi is convenient and the case itself is nice and small.  These is my third pair though.  First two had a crackling issue in the left bud, but these replacements seem to be doing well.  Button customization is nice after the firmware update.  Adds volume control.   Nice here at the office.  I'm still trying different tips and I keep going back to the med oem tips that come with them.


----------



## vaaccess

vaaccess said:


> I used my calipers to measure the 1Tx, it is exactly as shown. 5mm at the outer most part of the lip and 4mm on the inner part of the lip. So by measurement, they should work perfectly for the 1Tx.
> 
> when I get the mifo o7 later today I’ll measure those too.



Mifo o7 in da house!  Before I forget, just wanted to say that they measure the same for tips as the 1Tx:  5mm at the max, 4mm inner ring.

I'm listening with the out of the box silicone tips and will test with the others mentioned earlier tomorrow when I get them.  (1-day shipping, thank you Amazon!)

I need to A/B test this, but here's my first impression...

By comparison, these feel like they aren't even in my ears.  Very lightweight, and somehow stable, even without wings.  For a while I was shaking my head around trying to see if I could dislodge them, because it just seemed weird that they were as stable as they were while feeling like they were just sitting there chilling, weightless.  With the 1Tx, I couldn't even attempt to eat or chew gum with them (which is why I also want to try other tips with them), but I get very minimal feedback when I open my mouth, move my jaw, etc.  Another thing I just tested was walking.  Again, the 1Tx created a not-so-nice THUMP with every step.  Listening to music at a normal volume, I heard nothing when I walked.  I then turned it down well below what I'd normally listen at, and still heard no thump or feedback.  Even when i take a deep breath, I'm not getting any noticeable feedback.

Listening to music, I'd put these in a studio monitor category.  If I summed it up so far, I'd say Clarity & Balance.

I'm not feeling as though anything is muted, nor is any range out of balance or bleeding into another range that it isn't supposed to.  That said, the bass is reserved and tight.  This is the kind of sound I like, I don't like boomy bass unless the song demands it...and if the song demands it, the bass responds accordingly.  Just to test that theory, I am listening to "A Final Hit" from Leftfield.  This has some low frequencies that just rumble in the background.  I don't feel like the bass is hiding from this song, but it isn't thumping either.  If I was able to tune this a bit, I might bump the bass just a TAD, but then again don't really feel like it's needed and I feel as though I'm listening to the songs as they were recorded, if you know what I mean.

Jumping over to assess the highs...Listening to Flyleaf's Thread now...their lead singer has some exceptional heights and the guitar and cymbals are up there to match her.  I feel like this might be a tad hot.  If burn-in is a thing, I suspect these might need some time with some pink noise.  That isn't to say they aren't good to listen to now, just pondering how these may improve.

I was pondering what song might test the ranges, and reminded myself of a song from Grimes called "Dream Fortress".  It is pushing the limits of highs and lows, and feels like another good song to test with.  Again, I'm feeling as though these are balanced across the spectrum.  Pretty impressive.

Jumping over to some Florence + the Machine to evaluate the sound stage a bit.  I think I could get lost in the sound...I've loving it.

Ok, I analyzed it a lot more than I intended straight out of the box, but the more I listened the more I already love them.  I'm going to go workout now and see how well they stay in place during that kind of activity.  Given their IP67 rating, I'm excited to see how well they hold in place since they are not going to have an issue with water/sweat.  

BTW...The case is insanely small and VERY well made.  Quality.

PS: The 1Tx will be returned after I test them with the tips I ordered...They will never sound this good.  I didn't think this sound was possible in a TWS.


----------



## assassin10000 (Jan 24, 2020)

webvan said:


> Nice find. I've been using the ikkos size L with the Bomaker and they provide stellar isolation and none of that muffled sound typical of the Comply tips. The highs are just very slightly "tamed" but it's acceptable. The left tip is very slightly large though and puts too much pressure on my ear canal so I'll probably get the Misodiko S/M/L combo from Amazon to see which size works best before ordering pairs on AE.



Yeah. The S & L ikko tips run larger than some. More like MS & LL. I ordered some S Misodiko tips as they appear to be in the diameter my ears will probably be happy with.




assassin10000 said:


> So I got the Mavin Air-XR QI yesterday and I'm fairly happy with them.
> 
> Initial sound is fairly balanced, maybe a mild V. No sibilance thus far. I listen at low to med volumes though. These things dig deep, at 50% volume on a frequency test I can clearly hear 20hz.
> 
> ...



Here's a few comparison pics of the Mavin Air-XR case vs the Sabbat X12/E12 case and pics of the ear pieces:










The Misodiko tips I ordered unfortunately won't fit the Air-XR. It has a 7.1mm nozzle with no lip. I found an potential alternative on AE though. Anjirui makes a 6.5mm bore foam tip for TWS use, so I ordered those too.

 

Of course all those tips are extra delayed due to Chinese New Years.




erockg said:


> I've had three pairs, all with Japanese language.  Mavin said to return them because they were sent to Amazon by mistake.  Language cannot be changed on them.  That said, after four pairs, all in Japanese, I returned them.  Form factor was great, but the tempermental Qi charging drove me nuts.  I'm rocking the Libratone Track Air+ this week.  The addiction never stops.



Ah. I don't mind the japanese prompts. They just let me know once they're connected and/or powering off.

The QI charging isn't too terribly finicky for me. Just need to be near the center. My oldest charger (5w max) was the only one it didn't work on.


----------



## clerkpalmer

vaaccess said:


> Mifo o7 in da house!  Before I forget, just wanted to say that they measure the same for tips as the 1Tx:  5mm at the max, 4mm inner ring.
> 
> I'm listening with the out of the box silicone tips and will test with the others mentioned earlier tomorrow when I get them.  (1-day shipping, thank you Amazon!)
> 
> ...


Nice. These seem pretty sweet. Would love to hear how they compare the to the N6 pro since the form factor looks better.


----------



## voicemaster (Jan 24, 2020)

vaaccess said:


> Mifo o7 in da house!  Before I forget, just wanted to say that they measure the same for tips as the 1Tx:  5mm at the max, 4mm inner ring.
> 
> I'm listening with the out of the box silicone tips and will test with the others mentioned earlier tomorrow when I get them.  (1-day shipping, thank you Amazon!)
> 
> ...


There is 1 glaring weakness on mifo07 and it has to be said sadly. If you only listening to jazz, rock, or instrumental in general, it is great and you can get to stupidly loud volume and it will be fine. But once you listen to let say like Lorde, Skrillex, linkin park, etc then the driver will create this cracking sound when the bass drop. It sounds just like a speaker that driven to its limit and the drivers bottomed out. Of course all this need to be listened at mid to high volume. And because mifo 07 doesn't have that bass rumble even compared to t1x (flat EQ), you will definitely pushing those volume button to get that desired bass slam. Other than that, the mifo 07 does sound awesome, even better then t1x in certain genre imho.


----------



## vaaccess

voicemaster said:


> There is 1 glaring weakness on mifo07 and it has to be said sadly. If you only listening to jazz, rock, or instrumental in general, it is great and you can get to stupidly loud volume and it will be fine. But once you listen to let say like Lorde, Skrillex, linkin park, etc then the driver will create this cracking sound when the bass drop. It sounds just like a speaker that driven to its limit and the drivers bottomed out. Of course all this need to be listened at mid to high volume. And because mifo 07 doesn't have that bass rumble even compared to t1x (flat EQ), you will definitely pushing those volume button to get that desired bass slam. Other than that, the mifo 07 does sound awesome, even better then t1x in certain genre imho.



I can agree with most of that. Really wish they could be EQd with an app easily/natively. 

if I max them out, I do hear clipping, but obviously not a volume I’d want to stay at. Ouch. 

I would certainly agree that the 1Tx is also capable of louder volumes. But again for me I don’t want to listen that loud. But to your point, a limit nonetheless. 

as a follow-up...I’ve been working out for 45 minutes. Treadmill and a core workout of planks and other painful things. Anyway, I don’t feel like they’ve budged. And I pumped the treadmill up to an 8mph pace and didn’t have any issues.


----------



## voicemaster

vaaccess said:


> I can agree with most of that. Really wish they could be EQd with an app easily/natively.
> 
> if I max them out, I do hear clipping, but obviously not a volume I’d want to stay at. Ouch.
> 
> ...



For most acoustic music, the 07 does just fine even at high volume. Just hip-hop, edm, dnb, etc that has its bass boosted mostly that it struggles.


----------



## vaaccess

voicemaster said:


> For most acoustic music, the 07 does just fine even at high volume. Just hip-hop, edm, dnb, etc that has its bass boosted mostly that it struggles.


 I dunno. Check out the Leftfield song I mentioned. I was listening at 3/4 volume or maybe one click higher. It had no distortion. I agree if you max it out it does distort, but if not I haven’t experienced any issues.


----------



## voicemaster

vaaccess said:


> I dunno. Check out the Leftfield song I mentioned. I was listening at 3/4 volume or maybe one click higher. It had no distortion. I agree if you max it out it does distort, but if not I haven’t experienced any issues.


I max at my foobar and set my desktop volume to 78 and it start to clip for linkin park numb.


----------



## voicemaster

I am not bashing or disliking mifo 07, but at $149, it is a mid to high tier price and people have more expectation and be more critical than let say at twe in $50 price range. And mifo 07 is DEFINITELY not a basshead twe.


----------



## vaaccess

voicemaster said:


> I max at my foobar and set my desktop volume to 78 and it start to clip for linkin park numb.



as a reference. I am on an iPhone XS Max. 

I am listening to The Prodigy, Smack My Bitch Up. When my volume is set two clicks below max, it is plenty loud for me (as loud as I’d generally listen to music) and its distortion free in my opinion. If I click up one, to one click below max, I can sense distortion coming in it it’s not comfortable to listen at that volume. Distortion is worse at max, but again, I wouldn’t consider that a detriment. In fact. It’s probably for the better so I don’t tempt myself by listening at that volume. 

Not sure what phone you have, but would be curious if you have an iPhone what your experience is with that song at those volumes. 

Anyone know how I can confirm which codec, etc, is in use?  Also wondering if that could be a difference in experiences, if there is a real difference. 

of course, I feel like I’m trying to explain flavors of coffee I roast, or a wine...lol...so hard to do with just words!!!


----------



## vaaccess (Jan 24, 2020)

voicemaster said:


> I am not bashing or disliking mifo 07, but at $149, it is a mid to high tier price and people have more expectation and be more critical than let say at twe in $50 price range. And mifo 07 is DEFINITELY not a basshead twe.



absolutely agree that it isn’t for bass heads, but I do enjoy the way it plays the bass. Feels more real/pure. The Klipsch R6i set I have is definitely bass heavy, for instance!

PS. I know you aren’t bashing it!  And you are bringing up valid points for sure. Just providing my perspective.


----------



## voicemaster

vaaccess said:


> absolutely agree that it isn’t for bass heads, but I do enjoy the way it plays the bass. Feels more real/pure. The Klipsch R6i set I have is definitely bass heavy, for instance!



Yes it is more like listening with studio monitor speaker without any subwoofer.


----------



## tma6 (Jan 25, 2020)

For those Spotify users out there, have you guys tried this SpotEQ app on the App Store?? It’s $6, but has an unbelievable equalizer and it works with your Spotify so it can be used for streaming. Blows the regular Spotify app out of the water. I’ve been able to significantly up the bass content on the N6 Pros to the point that they sound full, rich, and bassy, without any distortion at all, while maintaining their excellent detail retrieval. It also tells you as you are adjusting the EQ at what level distortion will occur. It’s amazing, feels like a whole new world. The N6 Pros just sound ridiculous now.


----------



## voicemaster

tma6 said:


> For those Spotify users out there, have you guys tried this SpotEQ app on the App Store?? It’s $6, but has an unbelievable equalizer and it works with your Spotify so it can be used for streaming. Blows the regular Spotify app out of the water. I’ve been able to significantly up the bass content on the N6 Pros to the point that they sound full, rich, and bassy, without any distortion at all, while maintaining their excellent detail retrieval. It also tell you as you are adjusting the EQ at what level distortion will occur. It’s amazing, feels like a whole new world. The N6 Pros just sound ridiculous now.



Wish there is a 32 band eq for android out there.


----------



## assassin10000

tma6 said:


> For those Spotify users out there, have you guys tried this SpotEQ app on the App Store?? It’s $6, but has an unbelievable equalizer and it works with your Spotify so it can be used for streaming. Blows the regular Spotify app out of the water. I’ve been able to significantly up the bass content on the N6 Pros to the point that they sound full, rich, and bassy, without any distortion at all, while maintaining their excellent detail retrieval. It also tell you as you are adjusting the EQ at what level distortion will occur. It’s amazing, feels like a whole new world. The N6 Pros just sound ridiculous now.





voicemaster said:


> Wish there is a 32 band eq for android out there.




Android user, so root & V4A are what I use. I like that it works across all audio.


----------



## vaaccess

vaaccess said:


> Mifo o7 in da house!  Before I forget, just wanted to say that they measure the same for tips as the 1Tx:  5mm at the max, 4mm inner ring.
> 
> I'm listening with the out of the box silicone tips and will test with the others mentioned earlier tomorrow when I get them.  (1-day shipping, thank you Amazon!)
> 
> ...



I also did a quick test of the mic. I took a voice memo while running on the treadmill and thought it did a good job of isolating my voice.


----------



## FYLegend

thimantha said:


> Just got these babies. First impressions are very good. I feel like the buds are a little bit better built than the GT1s.
> 
> Oh BTW for anyone who might not know. The QCY QS2s are also now updated with dual-channel Bluetooth meaning that the annoying master/slave configuration is now gone for good in the new units they're shipping.



I thought the G1 Plus had Type C until I saw Kenneth Tanaka's video. His Tronsmart Onyx Neo review also shows it having a blue light when putting the buds in/out of the case, mine only has a red light when charging and green when complete, nothing to show how much is left.

Meanwhile I can't find where I left my Jabees Firefly Pro buds, I still have the case but it seems I misplaced the buds somewhere. The Aufo M1 looks like a good alternative though it too lacks AptX. Still can't find a budget AptX + Type-C + Transparency mode option except Edifier NB (no volume control and one disappointing review here).

Meanwhile there's finally an Amazon.ca listing of the Galaxy buds with roughly the equivalent of US MSRP with US Warranty, and it is slowly dropping down. Currently 157$.


----------



## Caipirina (Jan 24, 2020)

Francesco Montanari said:


> Well done!
> 
> If I remember well they don't have any ip certification, they are generically "ready for workouts"



Yeah ... the only info I found on this comes for soundguys.com and says 'Although 1More’s earbuds didn’t receive an official IP rating, they’re sweat-resistant and should withstand most workouts.' ...
In this climate I live and my heavy head sweating, not sure if I want to risk it, but I might try a short run to hear if there's a Thud™  

Now I want to get more of those powerbeats pro XL sized tips, they are softer than usual tips and a tad bigger ... and they work awesome with the 1more stylish AND they fit in the case with them

Also wondering, now with App and OTA updates, shouldn't there finally be a method to change the voice prompt language? From what I read it is NOT possible to change Chinese on the int'l version to anything else. Which I am not too broken up about ... I actually would not mind finding a glossary with these bluetooth terms and just study a bit of Chinese then (I googled but only found a bit regarding BT speakers)


----------



## thimantha (Jan 24, 2020)

d3myz said:


> I think initially it was used to indicate the status of the buds, powered on etc.



I'm not saying the LED light itself is a bad thing. In fact, I'm a fan of the LED indicator lights. What I'm not a fan of is the fact that some manufacturers opt to keep the light blinking while it's in your ear, being used. I don't need a blinking light to know that it's on and playing music, it's in my ear. Only the people around me are the ones who can see the LED light at that point.


----------



## thimantha

FYLegend said:


> I thought the G1 Plus had Type C until I saw Kenneth Tanaka's video.



It doesn't bother me that much since I already have a micro-USB cable always plugged into my desktop dock because the charging pad of my Honor Band also uses micro-USB. It would've been nice to have USB-C but not a dealbreaker, at least for me; Especially at the price point.


----------



## thimantha

thimantha said:


> I'm not saying the LED light itself is a bad thing. In fact, I'm a fan of the LED indicator lights. What I'm not a fan of is the fact that some manufacturers opt to keep the light blinking while it's in your ear, being used. I don't need a blinking light to know that it's on and playing music, it's in my ear. Only the people around me are the ones who can see the LED light at that point.


----------



## wksoh (Jan 25, 2020)

HiFlight said:


> You might want to try some of the different presets available in the FllL+ app.  Not counting the default, there are 14 more to choose from.


Thanks, I think burning in, changing tips and using app EQ is still not going to bring up the mids to the level I want. The volume is also too soft too. I'm currently much happier with the ballsy sounding Mpow M5.


----------



## thimantha

Caipirina said:


> ( a bit like the flashing disco lights behind Buddha statues in Sri Lanka. Not fully understanding that either  )



Dear God, the ones that they have over the windshield of the buses drive me insane.


----------



## wksoh

d3myz said:


> Great review, Scarbir! A couple questions for you. Did you burn in the T1x and are you using it on Bass EQ setting or Default? The T1x is one of the brighter yet full bodied TWS' I've heard. If the TWS6 makes it sound warm, how would you describe the Mpow T5/M5 or SSK/Anbes 359. I looked at your reviews to see how you described them, but the description was a bit different. The NUARL N6 is kind of a Anomaly, it's warmer than the T1x yet very detailed with excellent detail and clarity, but it's not quite as full as the T1x probably due to the missing sub-bass. Listening to the M5's today, i'd say they sound significantly warmer than the t1x and something like the 1more stylish would be very warm even darker sounding. however the Hieha B6 (the clone of the Whizzer B6) was just straight up Dark and pretty much muddy and unenjoyable to listen to.


Thanx.. .. Imore sounds like my type of sound


----------



## HiFlight

erockg said:


> I dig them.  The form factor is great.  ANC is decent, but not as good as the APP or Sonys.  Case Qi is convenient and the case itself is nice and small.  These is my third pair though.  First two had a crackling issue in the left bud, but these replacements seem to be doing well.  Button customization is nice after the firmware update.  Adds volume control.   Nice here at the office.  I'm still trying different tips and I keep going back to the med oem tips that come with them.


I have the latest firmware update from December but I haven't found where it added volume control, just the option to add a 3rd tap that one can assign a function such as next, prev., passthrough, etc.  I do think the update also improved the SQ over previous versions.


----------



## erockg

HiFlight said:


> I have the latest firmware update from December but I haven't found where it added volume control, just the option to add a 3rd tap that one can assign a function such as next, prev., passthrough, etc.  I do think the update also improved the SQ over previous versions.


There is an option to add a triple tap for volume up and down.  Firmware 111.


----------



## erockg

erockg said:


> There is an option to add a triple tap for volume up and down.  Firmware 111.


... and agreed, the sound seems better.  I'm sitting here comparing them to the Klipsch T5 (black version) and the Libratone sound warmer.  But that Klipsch lighter case is so damn cool


----------



## RobinFood

I'm not sure how relevant this is, but given that the noise cancelling buds are here and how great they work for planes it's worth looking into.

Does anyone have a recommendation for a decent Bluetooth transmitter that could plug into the airplane entrainment station? All the ones I tried in the past sounded horrible, like an fm signal that is unstable. Also every bump sent horrible feedback, and they were a little slow.


----------



## martiniCZ (Jan 25, 2020)

Recieved my Onyx Neo a few days ago, good design, very comfortable, surprisingly good sound, but absolutly stupid SW! Works normaly only with PC or phone, with other devices (some players or TV's) which not have headset (calling) profile switches off after 4 minutes! Sadly, because I bought them mainly for my Shanling M0  I don't know if this is normal, but when I connect one earpiece to BT 4.x source, then this side discharges faster and will turn off after 3 hours due to low battery. However, the other side still has 60%, so if I reconnect them after aprox 2-2,5 hours (at 40%) to the other earpiece they will play together for more than 4.5 hours, which is incredible at such a size and moreover, charging in case is really very fast. Stock eartips are useless, but with many other standard tips (smaller than I normally use) they go deeper and hold better and more secure in my ears. Fortunately, there is enough space in the charging case and can be loaded without problem. Onyx Neo is no longer blinking while listening and will not bother you in the dark. Sensor sensitivity and response are too bad, but over time one gets used to it. I definitely do not miss the mechanical buttons and even if the control scheme is not ideal for me, it's better than it was on Spunky Beat.
I was a little skeptical about the sound from 6 mm DD, but it is quite well balanced. Although a bit simplified and without extra detail, but listening with non stock eartips is nice and nowhere does not matter much. Yes, sub bass is missing completely, bass don't go too deep, but they has good speed, they are well textured and controlled, their amount is close to ideal for me. Mids are a bit recessed, the details are rather average, but the vocals sound pretty good. Considering what this TWS are for, I don't see a big problem there. I would commend Tronsmart for the high frequencies, the resolution is not as good as from the BA, but it sounds natural, without metalic aftertaste. Overall, the sound really went well, it is not perfect, but considering the price I have nothing to reproach. It reminds me the Sony MH755 without sub bass and foam filters inside, maybe Onyx Neo are little bit brighter than someone likes, but it suits me so much. They might have been ideal for traveling if they weren't that stupid shutdown problem when connected to some DAP's.


----------



## Bartig

d3myz said:


> Great review, Scarbir! A couple questions for you. Did you burn in the T1x and are you using it on Bass EQ setting or Default? The T1x is one of the brighter yet full bodied TWS' I've heard. If the TWS6 makes it sound warm, how would you describe the Mpow T5/M5 or SSK/Anbes 359. I looked at your reviews to see how you described them, but the description was a bit different. The NUARL N6 is kind of a Anomaly, it's warmer than the T1x yet very detailed with excellent detail and clarity, but it's not quite as full as the T1x probably due to the missing sub-bass. Listening to the M5's today, i'd say they sound significantly warmer than the t1x and something like the 1more stylish would be very warm even darker sounding. however the Hieha B6 (the clone of the Whizzer B6) was just straight up Dark and pretty much muddy and unenjoyable to listen to.


What do you mean, the description is a bit different? 

The Edifier TWS6, while brilliant, does sound a bit colder than most TWS, including the Fiil T1X indeed - which is already quite natural on the unequalized setting. I haven’t done any white noise/ pink noise ‘burning in’, but have listened to them for quuuuite a lot of hours now.


----------



## base08

thimantha said:


> Oh BTW for anyone who might not know. The QCY QS2s are also now updated with dual-channel Bluetooth meaning that the annoying master/slave configuration is now gone for good in the new units they're shipping.



Thanks for bringing this to our attention! I had a new pair that I ordered for my girlfriend as she liked mine and indeed they have a different sound upon connection and both sides connect straight to the phone... 

Great feature but... the QC on the drivers seems worse. While doing my usual frequency sweeping test on my old pair I have a cleaner sound on the sub-bass and even bass region without too much noticeable rattling noise, whereas on the new pair I get a more annoying parasitic noise while the driver is pushing its limits on the lower end... 

During music this is not so apparent, so I would say for the money they are still good options, with the advantage of having now the dual pairing mode.


----------



## thimantha

base08 said:


> the QC on the drivers seems worse.



At first glance, the build quality of the new one seemed better to me than the old variant. The lid of the case seems sturdier on the new ones. 



base08 said:


> whereas on the new pair I get a more annoying parasitic noise while the driver is pushing its limits on the lower end



I haven't noticed anything like that, but I anyway didn't listen to the old vs new side-by-side. Should do that and see. Care to share in which specific tracks you noticed this problem so I can listen on both old and new units and check. Disappointing if that's the case, though.


----------



## bronco1015

d3myz said:


> Anyone else have an N6 pro that literally takes 30 seconds to connect to the iphone? Man, they delay is ridiculous. I've reset them a bunch of times but there's some kind of lag and I don't know why.


Don't have an iphone, but my N6 Pro power up as soon as i open the case and are already connected when i put them in my ears. About as instantaneous as it gets.


----------



## clerkpalmer

bronco1015 said:


> Don't have an iphone, but my N6 Pro power up as soon as i open the case and are already connected when i put them in my ears. About as instantaneous as it gets.


Along these lines, anyone have a battery drain issue with them? Just pulled mine out after a week to find the case and buds were dead.  Annoying.


----------



## HiFlight

erockg said:


> There is an option to add a triple tap for volume up and down.  Firmware 111.


I am also running FW 111 on the Android app but do not see this option under the 3 tap menu.  Strange!


----------



## tma6

clerkpalmer said:


> Along these lines, anyone have a battery drain issue with them? Just pulled mine out after a week to find the case and buds were dead.  Annoying.



I’m not having drain but I do find that the case does a bad job of telling you when it’s low or out of battery. Also, when the case is out of battery, the earbuds just stay connected to Bluetooth when you put them back in the case, which is to be expected but a bit annoying and quirky.


----------



## SoundChoice (Jan 25, 2020)

vaaccess said:


> Mifo o7 in da house!  Before I forget, just wanted to say that they measure the same for tips as the 1Tx:  5mm at the max, 4mm inner ring.
> 
> I'm listening with the out of the box silicone tips and will test with the others mentioned earlier tomorrow when I get them.  (1-day shipping, thank you Amazon!)
> 
> ...


Nice review. The assessments on Amazon criticize the lack of bass. Maybe they had fit issues, but what wired IEM would you compare the sound signature to?

Edit: you answered later, more of reference sound from Mifo 07. I really enjoy the T1X (burned in 50 hours with app) on Bass Eq profile, so the 07 would probably not be my cup of tea. Seeking to go in the $100-$150 range, maybe N6 is the better leap for me.


----------



## bronco1015

clerkpalmer said:


> Along these lines, anyone have a battery drain issue with them? Just pulled mine out after a week to find the case and buds were dead.  Annoying.


i've actually started making it a point to check every twe for this lately. i got my N6 Pro 2.5 weeks ago, i used them for 3-4 days, let them sit exactly a week, and no battery drain.
For anyone who might be interested, Amazon is offering their 90 day trial of amazon music HD again.
i held out last time hoping for a longer trial for siber monday, but never saw one.
started my trial a few hours ago, and i am not a fan of the app, but seems like pretty good music selection and i do notice a difference when A Bing tracks with it vs Spotify.


----------



## clerkpalmer

So my left N6 pro won’t turn on. Completely dead. Anyone aware of any trouble shooting? Is there a hard reset option?


----------



## base08 (Jan 25, 2020)

thimantha said:


> At first glance, the build quality of the new one seemed better to me than the old variant. The lid of the case seems sturdier on the new ones.
> 
> 
> 
> I haven't noticed anything like that, but I anyway didn't listen to the old vs new side-by-side. Should do that and see. Care to share in which specific tracks you noticed this problem so I can listen on both old and new units and check. Disappointing if that's the case, though.



Try the “Bass Shaker” test on the “Quality” section: https://www.audiocheck.net/soundtests_headphones.php

Sometimes we discuss earbud quality purely by listening, but these tests are actually where we hear their faults or virtues in a more scientific and accurate way...

For instance if I try the same test with the Bomaker Sifi (when connected with APTX) or the FIIL T1X, both equipped with higher quality drivers and with these I don’t hear any extra noise, just a pure clean tone.


----------



## erockg

HiFlight said:


> I am also running FW 111 on the Android app but do not see this option under the 3 tap menu.  Strange!


I just read in the Amazon description that volume control is iOS only.  Weird.  I’d email Libratone and ask why.


----------



## gibletzor

clerkpalmer said:


> So my left N6 pro won’t turn on. Completely dead. Anyone aware of any trouble shooting? Is there a hard reset option?


Pretty sure @d3myz had that same issue with his a few pages back.


----------



## clerkpalmer

Well something is very wrong with my left N6 pro. In addition to not turning on, it is extremely warm to the touch after being in the charging case. Feeling like a Samsung note 7 moment could be coming if I keep trying to charge them. Back to amazon they go!


----------



## thimantha

base08 said:


> Try the “Bass Shaker” test on the “Quality” section: https://www.audiocheck.net/soundtests_headphones.php



Oh shoot, I hear the rattle. I remember using the very same test to test my older QCY QS2s and I believe they didn't have this problem. Disappointing.


----------



## base08

thimantha said:


> Oh shoot, I hear the rattle. I remember using the very same test to test my older QCY QS2s and I believe they didn't have this problem. Disappointing.



Yep... They seem to have this new batch with worse driver quality. It’s easy to identify the new and old batch: new one comes in a white box and the old batch came in a brown box...


----------



## APC01

Hi

Sorry for my english.

I want to buy my first TWS headphones.

I have looked at many reviews and among the affordable models (budget) I need some advice to choose between these two models (both cost me approximately the same about € 21)

Which one do you advise between this two and why?

_ KZ S1 TWS True Wireless Bluetooth 5.0

or

_Tronsmart Spunky Beat Bluetooth TWS Earphone APTX Wireless

thanks


----------



## vaaccess

SoundChoice said:


> Nice review. The assessments on Amazon criticize the lack of bass. Maybe they had fit issues, but what wired IEM would you compare the sound signature to?
> 
> Edit: you answered later, more of reference sound from Mifo 07. I really enjoy the T1X (burned in 50 hours with app) on Bass Eq profile, so the 07 would probably not be my cup of tea. Seeking to go in the $100-$150 range, maybe N6 is the better leap for me.



if the bass EQ setting is your preference for the 1Tx, the mifo o7 is not a good choice at the moment. I’m going to spend some time looking for how I might EQ on an iPhone using Apple Music. Anyone have any recommendations?



base08 said:


> Try the “Bass Shaker” test on the “Quality” section: https://www.audiocheck.net/soundtests_headphones.php
> 
> Sometimes we discuss earbud quality purely by listening, but these tests are actually where we hear their faults or virtues in a more scientific and accurate way...
> 
> For instance if I try the same test with the Bomaker Sifi (when connected with APTX) or the FIIL T1X, both equipped with higher quality drivers and with these I don’t hear any extra noise, just a pure clean tone.



thanks for the link. I’m going to give it a try!


----------



## Caipirina

APC01 said:


> Hi
> 
> Sorry for my english.
> 
> ...



depends on what your music taste is and what you want to use them for. 

the KZ are more refined / analytical in my opinion, thanks to the hybrid setup. But not sure how sweatproof they are, I would not take them to the gym / running. 

the Spunky Beats are more ‘fun’, make you tap your toes, nod your head to your favorite music. Personally I get such a great fit with them that the passive noise cancellation gets to like 60-70% of the active noise cancellation of the AirPods Pro (as I experienced on a recent loooong car drive when the APP batteries were out and I switched to the Spunky Beats. ) 

I am pretty much a KZ fanboy, but you might get an overall better first package with the Spunkies.  And since you are here, you might be drawn in like so many of us, and end up getting both


----------



## thimantha (Jan 25, 2020)

base08 said:


> Yep... They seem to have this new batch with worse driver quality. It’s easy to identify the new and old batch: new one comes in a white box and the old batch came in a brown box...



Left is the new box and right is the old one. New one says 'QS2' in the front, whereas the old says 'qs2'.





Also, in the back the model of the old unit is 'T1' but the new one's model is 'In1852'.


----------



## SoundChoice

Caipirina said:


> depends on what your music taste is and what you want to use them for.
> 
> the KZ are more refined / analytical in my opinion, thanks to the hybrid setup. But not sure how sweatproof they are, I would not take them to the gym / running.
> 
> ...



Quick KZ impression: better than I expected, but lacking in treble for my tastes, not quite the V signature they’re known for with wires. Spunky is on the way.


----------



## cruizin caleb

Hey all, I'm a bit confused about how to read/understand some of the specs for TWS IEMs, specifically bluetooth connectivity. How can I tell if a pair will connect to two devices simultaneously? I have an iPhone 7 (which only has bluetooth 4.2) and am looking to buy an Apple Watch 5 series (which has bluetooth 5). I want a pair of truly wireless headphones that will connect to both devices, without there being much of a process for switching back and forth (for example, my Bose QuietComfort 35 does this). I also want something that I can use with my Apple Watch while working out (running, shooting hoops, and weightlifting).


----------



## SoundChoice

cruizin caleb said:


> Hey all, I'm a bit confused about how to read/understand some of the specs for TWS IEMs, specifically bluetooth connectivity. How can I tell if a pair will connect to two devices simultaneously? I have an iPhone 7 (which only has bluetooth 4.2) and am looking to buy an Apple Watch 5 series (which has bluetooth 5). I want a pair of truly wireless headphones that will connect to both devices, without there being much of a process for switching back and forth (for example, my Bose QuietComfort 35 does this). I also want something that I can use with my Apple Watch while working out (running, shooting hoops, and weightlifting).



Define "connect" and "simultaneously." Being connected to multiple devices simultaneously would have many inputs in one output device creating cacophony. My TWS devices can all _pair_ to multiple devices simultaneously, but can only _connect _to one at a time. And generally, they stay connected to the last one connected and don't let go until you manually tell it to disconnect. At that point, I'm then able to connect to a different device. I suppose that makes sense, but is inconvenient when I want to listen to the Dudeos Zeus on device 1 and they were last connected to device 2.


----------



## APC01

Caipirina said:


> depends on what your music taste is and what you want to use them for.
> 
> the KZ are more refined / analytical in my opinion, thanks to the hybrid setup. But not sure how sweatproof they are, I would not take them to the gym / running.
> 
> ...


Thanks

And for phone calls which is better?


----------



## FYLegend

martiniCZ said:


> Recieved my Onyx Neo a few days ago, good design, very comfortable, surprisingly good sound, but absolutly stupid SW! Works normaly only with PC or phone, with other devices (some players or TV's) which not have headset (calling) profile switches off after 4 minutes! Sadly, because I bought them mainly for my Shanling M0  I don't know if this is normal, but when I connect one earpiece to BT 4.x source, then this side discharges faster and will turn off after 3 hours due to low battery. However, the other side still has 60%, so if I reconnect them after aprox 2-2,5 hours (at 40%) to the other earpiece they will play together for more than 4.5 hours, which is incredible at such a size and moreover, charging in case is really very fast. Stock eartips are useless, but with many other standard tips (smaller than I normally use) they go deeper and hold better and more secure in my ears. Fortunately, there is enough space in the charging case and can be loaded without problem. Onyx Neo is no longer blinking while listening and will not bother you in the dark. Sensor sensitivity and response are too bad, but over time one gets used to it. I definitely do not miss the mechanical buttons and even if the control scheme is not ideal for me, it's better than it was on Spunky Beat.
> I was a little skeptical about the sound from 6 mm DD, but it is quite well balanced. Although a bit simplified and without extra detail, but listening with non stock eartips is nice and nowhere does not matter much. Yes, sub bass is missing completely, bass don't go too deep, but they has good speed, they are well textured and controlled, their amount is close to ideal for me. Mids are a bit recessed, the details are rather average, but the vocals sound pretty good. Considering what this TWS are for, I don't see a big problem there. I would commend Tronsmart for the high frequencies, the resolution is not as good as from the BA, but it sounds natural, without metalic aftertaste. Overall, the sound really went well, it is not perfect, but considering the price I have nothing to reproach. It reminds me the Sony MH755 without sub bass and foam filters inside, maybe Onyx Neo are little bit brighter than someone likes, but it suits me so much. They might have been ideal for traveling if they weren't that stupid shutdown problem when connected to some DAP's.


seems your measurements have some imbalance but not as dramatic as what I hear on my unit. Does your case have a blue light when the buds are put in or removed? Mine has no light whatsoever except when charging the case.

Some reviewers are saying there's no difference compared to Spunky Beat while others say the Neo are less bassy..


----------



## Luke Skywalker

assassin10000 said:


> I typically burn in with Jlab's burn in audio file. Its sweeps, noise and periods of silence mixed in. It's on soundcloud via their webpage.
> 
> Play at your normal listening volume or maybe 1 click higher.


Awesome thanks! I wonder how many hours I need to do that for the N6’s?

one more dumb question  I bought some Jh Lola IEMs several months ago and I didn’t burn them in. 

do you think there’d be any benefit to doing it now? I’ve listened to hundreds of hours of music on them already

thanks again


----------



## Darkestred

I know the BGVP Q2 aren't available yet but it does look like a few people have auditioned them.  Any more input on them?  They are very intriguing to me.


----------



## Luke Skywalker

d3myz said:


> Wow. That's highway robbery.
> 
> 
> I pair mine with my ipad or my Mac and run this playlist until they die. Then I start from the top and do it again I don't know much about volume levels but the first time through I keep it relatively low, then I raise it to about 50-75% the 2nd run. Should take around two full battery cycles 14-16 hours. I"m going to have to check out that JLAB audio file that @assassin10000 mentioned too.
> ...


Oh man that’s awesome thanks


----------



## Luke Skywalker

tma6 said:


> For those Spotify users out there, have you guys tried this SpotEQ app on the App Store?? It’s $6, but has an unbelievable equalizer and it works with your Spotify so it can be used for streaming. Blows the regular Spotify app out of the water. I’ve been able to significantly up the bass content on the N6 Pros to the point that they sound full, rich, and bassy, without any distortion at all, while maintaining their excellent detail retrieval. It also tells you as you are adjusting the EQ at what level distortion will occur. It’s amazing, feels like a whole new world. The N6 Pros just sound ridiculous now.


That’s interesting!  I mostly use Tidal and Qobuz... I’m excited to try connecting the N6 Pro’s to my HiBy R6 pro via Aptx to see how it sounds.  My iPhone is AAC only unfortunately


----------



## Bartig

Darkestred said:


> I know the BGVP Q2 aren't available yet but it does look like a few people have auditioned them.  Any more input on them?  They are very intriguing to me.


Currently on vacation and taking a break from testing them intensively, but they do have an impressive bright and detailed sound. Sub-bass is good, mid-bass and lower-mids don’t have the biggest presence.


----------



## howdy

My case for my Senns broke today. The case is fairly flimsy and was a matter of time before it broke. It still works the same just that the lid and base are now able to detach. The case looks brand new still, I think it's been in my pocket less than. 5 times.
Has this happened to anyone else?


----------



## martiniCZ (Jan 25, 2020)

FYLegend said:


> seems your measurements have some imbalance but not as dramatic as what I hear on my unit. Does your case have a blue light when the buds are put in or removed? Mine has no light whatsoever except when charging the case.
> 
> Some reviewers are saying there's no difference compared to Spunky Beat while others say the Neo are less bassy..


I noticed imbalance only when measuring them, when listening with eartips it is not recognizable. The LED on mine also indicates just charging the case itself, I don't need any more. But if I wanted to see the earbuds charging status without opening the case, I would have to make 2 small holes on the lid next to the logo 
Reviewers I believe say there is a difference in sound versus spunky beats, but maybe this is relevant only to the first version, the new version of spunky no longer blinks while playing, and maybe now already using the same driver as onyx neo, but who knows.
Anyway, if the onyx have less bass, I wouldn't want spunky. Even though it doesn't look like on the FR chart, because they go deep into the ear canal and don't have a front vent, they massage my eardrum more than enough!


----------



## assassin10000

martiniCZ said:


> Recieved my Onyx Neo a few days ago, good design, very comfortable, surprisingly good sound, but absolutly stupid SW! Works normaly only with PC or phone, with other devices (some players or TV's) which not have headset (calling) profile switches off after 4 minutes! Sadly, because I bought them mainly for my Shanling M0  I don't know if this is normal, but when I connect one earpiece to BT 4.x source, then this side discharges faster and will turn off after 3 hours due to low battery. However, the other side still has 60%, so if I reconnect them after aprox 2-2,5 hours (at 40%) to the other earpiece they will play together for more than 4.5 hours, which is incredible at such a size and moreover, charging in case is really very fast. Stock eartips are useless, but with many other standard tips (smaller than I normally use) they go deeper and hold better and more secure in my ears. Fortunately, there is enough space in the charging case and can be loaded without problem. Onyx Neo is no longer blinking while listening and will not bother you in the dark. Sensor sensitivity and response are too bad, but over time one gets used to it. I definitely do not miss the mechanical buttons and even if the control scheme is not ideal for me, it's better than it was on Spunky Beat.
> I was a little skeptical about the sound from 6 mm DD, but it is quite well balanced. Although a bit simplified and without extra detail, but listening with non stock eartips is nice and nowhere does not matter much. Yes, sub bass is missing completely, bass don't go too deep, but they has good speed, they are well textured and controlled, their amount is close to ideal for me. Mids are a bit recessed, the details are rather average, but the vocals sound pretty good. Considering what this TWS are for, I don't see a big problem there. I would commend Tronsmart for the high frequencies, the resolution is not as good as from the BA, but it sounds natural, without metalic aftertaste. Overall, the sound really went well, it is not perfect, but considering the price I have nothing to reproach. It reminds me the Sony MH755 without sub bass and foam filters inside, maybe Onyx Neo are little bit brighter than someone likes, but it suits me so much. They might have been ideal for traveling if they weren't that stupid shutdown problem when connected to some DAP's.



It dies on one side quickly as the 4.2 BT device doesn't connect to both buds simultaneously.

Sounds like your neo get better battery life than my spunky beats did (averaged around 3hr +/-20 min).




Luke Skywalker said:


> Awesome thanks! I wonder how many hours I need to do that for the N6’s?
> 
> one more dumb question  I bought some Jh Lola IEMs several months ago and I didn’t burn them in.
> 
> ...



Jlab says 40hrs... I'll setup an iem/earbud on another device and just let them play for a week or so, which is about 100hrs lol.

Some people hear a change at 10-20 hours, some at 80 or 100-200 depending on what iem and when they check I guess.

If you're hundreds of hours in... you're already burned in using music. No point in using the burn in file now. The sweeps and noise mix just makes sure it hits a wide range of frequencies to limber up the driver materials potentially faster.


----------



## d3myz

Bartig said:


> What do you mean, the description is a bit different?
> 
> The Edifier TWS6, while brilliant, does sound a bit colder than most TWS, including the Fiil T1X indeed - which is already quite natural on the unequalized setting. I haven’t done any white noise/ pink noise ‘burning in’, but have listened to them for quuuuite a lot of hours now.


They adjetives you use to describe the ssk and the Mpow don't mention cold/warm/dark. You called the T1x warm in it's comparison to the TWS6, but in my exp. the T1x is as cool as a cucumber compared to the MPOW M5.So I guess what i'm asking is in your definition of cold do you mean lacking low and mid bass? because while the T1x on bass eq has a good amount of low end, it's never what I would consider warm. Sorry if this is just semantics, just trying to understand. Would you also compare the Tevi pre beta firmware as cold as well?


----------



## vaaccess (Jan 25, 2020)

I leveraged the https://www.audiocheck.net/soundtests_headphones.php site to do a little more structured analysis of the TWS and IEMs that I have.  I'll update when I get to test the TWSs with different tips, as I think it will make a big difference.  That said, one thing I noticed without question is that the wired IEMs were much louder than the TWS.  I still feel as though the TWSs I have get plenty loud for me, frankly I have less chance of harming my hearing.  Another obvious point to make, these are my tests with my ears, so I'm sure YMMV...


----------



## d3myz

bronco1015 said:


> Don't have an iphone, but my N6 Pro power up as soon as i open the case and are already connected when i put them in my ears. About as instantaneous as it gets.


I figured it out. only one was paired to my phone. I reset and re-paired and they are working fine now.


----------



## martiniCZ

assassin10000 said:


> Sounds like your neo get better battery life than my spunky beats did (averaged around 3hr +/-20 min).


I think the battery life will be the same, I usually listen only at 50-60% volume.


----------



## d3myz

Luke Skywalker said:


> Awesome thanks! I wonder how many hours I need to do that for the N6’s?
> 
> one more dumb question  I bought some Jh Lola IEMs several months ago and I didn’t burn them in.
> 
> ...


 I'd give the N6 a good 40 hours of burn in, that's what i'm doing. 35-50% volume. I'm using the jlab audio burn-in that @assassin10000 so graciously sent me. It's only 10 min. but I I put it in itunes on repeat.


----------



## bronco1015

APC01 said:


> Hi
> 
> Sorry for my english.
> 
> ...


No apology for english needed my friend. i haven't heard the KZ, any of them actually, but i can reccomend the Tronsmart Spunky beat, just be aware that touch controls are rediculously sensitive, but they are super small and sound great. For that price it's hard to go wrong imo.


----------



## d3myz

So I need to choose this weekend which NUARL i'm sending back and after splitting the day between the two yesterday, I was just thinking this morning again how much more I like the Nuarl N6, than the pro. I know I'm in the minority, but it just seems silly to me to keep the Pro, when the N6 It really is 90+% identical in detail by default and while I didn't find the Pro to respond well to Eq ing in Spotify, the N6 sounds fantastic when boosting the highs a touch and lowering the mid bass a little. The sub bass from the N6 is also seems better and while I don't have any tools to measure the Freq. response it's my opinion the N6 actually has better low end sub bass extension when I eq'd both relatively. How's the saying go? I've never heard anyone say I need a smaller subwoofer, because I can just turn it down?"   If any of you have both could you try eq ing both of them and let me know your findings, I would be very grateful. I'll love bass but I also love crips detail highs and fat clean midrange. I only use streaming music, so my EQ options are limited. Going to buy that spotifyeq app someone mentioned a couple pages back.


----------



## bronco1015

howdy said:


> My case for my Senns broke today. The case is fairly flimsy and was a matter of time before it broke. It still works the same just that the lid and base are now able to detach. The case looks brand new still, I think it's been in my pocket less than. 5 times.
> Has this happened to anyone else?


Mine's been in my pocket a lot mor than 5 times, but yeah. Back in november, the case fell off an ottoman onto a nice soft carpet and broke. Speaking of highway robbery, sennheiser last time i checked wanted $107 for a new case.


----------



## Darkestred

Bartig said:


> Currently on vacation and taking a break from testing them intensively, but they do have an impressive bright and detailed sound. Sub-bass is good, mid-bass and lower-mids don’t have the biggest presence.


Thank you!  Maybe some eq can bump that up a bit.  Appreciate the feedback.


----------



## Sam L

d3myz said:


> They adjetives you use to describe the ssk and the Mpow don't mention cold/warm/dark. You called the T1x warm in it's comparison to the TWS6, but in my exp. the T1x is as cool as a cucumber compared to the MPOW M5.So I guess what i'm asking is in your definition of cold do you mean lacking low and mid bass? because while the T1x on bass eq has a good amount of low end, it's never what I would consider warm. Sorry if this is just semantics, just trying to understand. Would you also compare the Tevi pre beta firmware as cold as well?



M5 is way warmer than t1x. Not even close, to my ears.


----------



## tma6

clerkpalmer said:


> Well something is very wrong with my left N6 pro. In addition to not turning on, it is extremely warm to the touch after being in the charging case. Feeling like a Samsung note 7 moment could be coming if I keep trying to charge them. Back to amazon they go!



Damn that’s weird. You could try hard resetting by holding down the middle button on the earbud for eight seconds until you hear 3 beeps and then press the button twice.


----------



## tma6

d3myz said:


> So I need to choose this weekend which NUARL i'm sending back and after splitting the day between the two yesterday, I was just thinking this morning again how much more I like the Nuarl N6, than the pro. I know I'm in the minority, but it just seems silly to me to keep the Pro, when the N6 It really is 90+% identical in detail by default and while I didn't find the Pro to respond well to Eq ing in Spotify, the N6 sounds fantastic when boosting the highs a touch and lowering the mid bass a little. The sub bass from the N6 is also seems better and while I don't have any tools to measure the Freq. response it's my opinion the N6 actually has better low end sub bass extension when I eq'd both relatively. How's the saying go? I've never heard anyone say I need a smaller subwoofer, because I can just turn it down?"   If any of you have both could you try eq ing both of them and let me know your findings, I would be very grateful. I'll love bass but I also love crips detail highs and fat clean midrange. I only use streaming music, so my EQ options are limited. Going to buy that spotifyeq app someone mentioned a couple pages back.



Totally hear what you’re saying. I like the regular N6 a lot, but think that they do kind of similar things as the L2Ps with a bit better tonality, but I was able to get the L2Ps for much cheaper so I’m just gonna stick with them. For the N6 Pros, definitely try them using the SpotEQ App if you have an iPhone. It’s a complete game changer. I’ve been able to make the N6 Pros sound much warmer and it’s possible to make them sound legitimately bassy while remaining super detailed. The app itself is pretty intuitive too, nothing special but it gets the job done and works with your Spotify so you can search for artists and stream music through it. I agree that the normal Spotify EQ is pretty garbage.


----------



## HiFlight

erockg said:


> I just read in the Amazon description that volume control is iOS only.  Weird.  I’d email Libratone and ask why.


I suspected that might be the case, however volume control via my phone is not a major issue with me considering the SQ, ANC and hear-through features incorporated into one tiny device.  They remain at the top of my favorite list.


----------



## SoundChoice

d3myz said:


> I'd give the N6 a good 40 hours of burn in, that's what i'm doing. 35-50% volume. I'm using the jlab audio burn-in that @assassin10000 so graciously sent me. It's only 10 min. but I I put it in itunes on repeat.



Is the main difference between N6 and Pro that N6 Pro is more balanced and non pro more bass?


----------



## Quicky32

The T1X get better with every listen, particularly the bass.  Listening to Sully Erna’s Avalon is amazing and I can’t recommend them enough for around $40.  They aren’t as forward or in your face as the LP2 but the fit is worlds better and they’re half the cost.  I do recommend the Auvio tips...they seem to work better for me than the Spinfits.


----------



## tma6

SoundChoice said:


> Is the main difference between N6 and Pro that N6 Pro is more balanced and non pro more bass?



For the most part yeah. Pros have a bit better detail retrieval, refinement, and imaging, whereas regular N6 are warmer, still pretty detailed but more closed in and have more bass. Also the finish on the outside housing of the Pros have like a soft touch material whereas the N6s are glossy plastic.


----------



## cruizin caleb (Jan 25, 2020)

SoundChoice said:


> Define "connect" and "simultaneously." Being connected to multiple devices simultaneously would have many inputs in one output device creating cacophony. My TWS devices can all _pair_ to multiple devices simultaneously, but can only _connect _to one at a time. And generally, they stay connected to the last one connected and don't let go until you manually tell it to disconnect. At that point, I'm then able to connect to a different device. I suppose that makes sense, but is inconvenient when I want to listen to the Dudeos Zeus on device 1 and they were last connected to device 2.



Sorry, I think I mean pair. Here’s an example though. When I turn on my Bose QuietComfort 30 (or my Bose Mini II Soundlink) it’ll say something like “Battery 90%; Connected to Caleb’s iPhone and Caleb’s MacBook”. (If i don’t want either of those, there is a button on the headphones for sorting through devices until I find the one I want. But the nice thing is that I can just press the button until I find the device I want, and I don’t have to do anything on the device provided that it’s been previously paired, Bluetooth is on, and it’s in range.) It’ll never say its “connected” more than two devices at a time. This doesn’t mean that I can play stuff from my MacBook and my iPhone literally at the same time — I wouldn’t want that — but I don’t really have to manually do anything to the headphones to choose which source I’ll use. I just start playing something on one of those two sources and it’ll pick up on it. I’m hoping if I get TWS iems it’ll be similarly easy to go between a smart watch and my iPhone.


----------



## SoundChoice

cruizin caleb said:


> Sorry, I think I mean pair. Here’s an example though. When I turn on my Bose QuietComfort 30 (or my Bose Mini II Soundlink) it’ll say something like “Battery 90%; Connected to Caleb’s iPhone and Caleb’s MacBook”. (If i don’t want either of those, there is a button on the headphones for sorting through devices until I find the one I want. But the nice thing is that I can just press the button until I find the device I want, and I don’t have to do anything on the device provided that it’s been previously paired, Bluetooth is on, and it’s in range.) It’ll never say its “connected” more than two devices at a time. This doesn’t mean that I can play stuff from my MacBook and my iPhone literally at the same time — I wouldn’t want that — but I don’t really have to manually do anything to the headphones to choose which source I’ll use. I just start playing something on one of those two sources and it’ll pick up on it. I’m hoping if I get TWS iems it’ll be similarly easy to go between a smart watch and my iPhone.



One of TWS' annoyances is that I have to manually disconnect one device if I want to connect the TWS to another. I've got TWS phones paired to about 3 or 4 sources, so when it doesn't connect to one, I have to hunt down the other three and find the one it's connected to and disconnect it. I'll be happy to learn that there's an easier way.


----------



## chinmie

cruizin caleb said:


> Sorry, I think I mean pair. Here’s an example though. When I turn on my Bose QuietComfort 30 (or my Bose Mini II Soundlink) it’ll say something like “Battery 90%; Connected to Caleb’s iPhone and Caleb’s MacBook”. (If i don’t want either of those, there is a button on the headphones for sorting through devices until I find the one I want. But the nice thing is that I can just press the button until I find the device I want, and I don’t have to do anything on the device provided that it’s been previously paired, Bluetooth is on, and it’s in range.) It’ll never say its “connected” more than two devices at a time. This doesn’t mean that I can play stuff from my MacBook and my iPhone literally at the same time — I wouldn’t want that — but I don’t really have to manually do anything to the headphones to choose which source I’ll use. I just start playing something on one of those two sources and it’ll pick up on it. I’m hoping if I get TWS iems it’ll be similarly easy to go between a smart watch and my iPhone.



TWS that i know have 2 device connection at the same time are the Jabra 65t and 75t. i didn't know any other that I'm aware of


----------



## voicemaster

SoundChoice said:


> One of TWS' annoyances is that I have to manually disconnect one device if I want to connect the TWS to another. I've got TWS phones paired to about 3 or 4 sources, so when it doesn't connect to one, I have to hunt down the other three and find the one it's connected to and disconnect it. I'll be happy to learn that there's an easier way.



I have two t1x, one connects to my phone and the other one connect to my desktop pc. No more changing source.


----------



## SoundChoice

voicemaster said:


> I have two t1x, one connects to my phone and the other one connect to my desktop pc. No more changing source.



That's cheating, but definitely a solution: BUY TWO!


----------



## cruizin caleb

chinmie said:


> TWS that i know have 2 device connection at the same time are the Jabra 65t and 75t. i didn't know any other that I'm aware of



does it matter whether it is the active or elite? (I need to be able to use them for workouts)


----------



## vaaccess

vaaccess said:


> I leveraged the https://www.audiocheck.net/soundtests_headphones.php site to do a little more structured analysis of the TWS and IEMs that I have.  I'll update when I get to test the TWSs with different tips, as I think it will make a big difference.  That said, one thing I noticed without question is that the wired IEMs were much louder than the TWS.  I still feel as though the TWSs I have get plenty loud for me, frankly I have less chance of harming my hearing.  Another obvious point to make, these are my tests with my ears, so I'm sure YMMV...



I received the misodiko foam tips today.  They made an impressive improvement in both the Mifo o7 and the FiiL 1Tx.  As you would expect, I think this is largely due to the isolation created by the foam tips, they certainly do improve things!  However, while the bass was enhanced in the Mifo o7, I would say that it is still not bass-ie enough for a bass head.  They remain squarely in that studio monitor range that I personally prefer, so that makes me happy.






Three additional points to make.  
1) I borrowed my wife's Air Pods and while they had decent clinical scoring, they remain flat and boring to listen to.
2) I now believe that the clicking I heard in the left ear with the silicone Bass Shaker test for the 1Tx and what I thought was the silicone tips causing issues, is in fact driver flex in the left driver.  I'll be sending them back momentarily.
3) I really like the Misodiko tips.  They feel great, and are pretty low profile.  That said, when on the 1Tx won't fit in it's case.  And, on the Mifo o7 only the smallest foam tips will fit in the case.  While I think I prefer the feel of the Medium sized tips, I'll probably use the small just for the convenience of being able to throw them in the case without having to take the tips off...!

I'll be interested to hear more comparisons of the Mifo o7 and other TWS as people try them out.  And if Mifo is listening, any chance you'll throw an app on the marketplace to allow us to EQ the TWS?  While I think the quality control issues are a real thing with the 1Tx, they do sound very good and the EQ options do make it a nice choice.


----------



## chinmie

cruizin caleb said:


> does it matter whether it is the active or elite? (I need to be able to use them for workouts)



the difference is the slightly higher ipx rating and grippy texture on the active version


----------



## hifi80sman

chinmie said:


> TWS that i know have 2 device connection at the same time are the Jabra 65t and 75t. i didn't know any other that I'm aware of


The original MW07 can connect to 2 devices at the same time.  I receive most of my calls on my iPhone and prefer to stream aptX over my Galaxy s8.


----------



## gourab1995 (Jan 25, 2020)

APC01 said:


> Hi
> 
> Sorry for my english.
> 
> ...





bronco1015 said:


> No apology for english needed my friend. i haven't heard the KZ, any of them actually, but i can reccomend the Tronsmart Spunky beat, just be aware that touch controls are rediculously sensitive, but they are super small and sound great. For that price it's hard to go wrong imo.



Im surprised no one mentions the qcy t5's in this price segment. Low latency, more than decent sound quality. Tradeoff is you don't get water proof, usb c. Not suitable for bassheads. Superb for gaming, connection and sound wise as well. Battery life is ok. All for an insanely low price, its even on sale right now for lesser than usual.

Edit: It is sweat resistant.


----------



## DynamicEars

gourab1995 said:


> Im surprised no one mentions the qcy t5's in this price segment. Low latency, more than decent sound quality. Tradeoff is you don't get water proof, usb c. Not suitable for bassheads. Superb for gaming, connection and sound wise as well. Battery life is ok. All for an insanely low price, its even on sale right now for lesser than usual.
> 
> Edit: It is sweat resistant.



and i was surprised the new Haylou GT1 *PLUS *dont have many love here, i read about T5 sometimes and crin also give good impressions, but the the GT1 plus is much better than T5, same balance signature very smooth, with better sub bass, not as peaky as T5 high mids (3khz) and T5 sounded thin in mids compared to GT1 plus, not to mention the Plus have better soundstage, imaging and details, and APTX. everything i got for $25 crazy.


----------



## Timastyle (Jan 25, 2020)

DynamicEars said:


> and i was surprised the new Haylou GT1 *PLUS *dont have many love here, i read about T5 sometimes and crin also give good impressions, but the the GT1 plus is much better than T5, same balance signature very smooth, with better sub bass, not as peaky as T5 high mids (3khz) and T5 sounded thin in mids compared to GT1 plus, not to mention the Plus have better soundstage, imaging and details, and APTX. everything i got for $25 crazy.



Do you mean the Haylou GT1 Pro?  Found the Pro and standard GT1 on Amazon but no plus.

Nevermind. Google clarified there is a Plus. Just don't see it on Amazon.


----------



## Caipirina

APC01 said:


> Thanks
> 
> And for phone calls which is better?


Can’t help with that one as I HATE phone calls and curse everyone who dares calling me while I listen to music. Phone calls are sooo 1997


----------



## Caipirina

cruizin caleb said:


> Hey all, I'm a bit confused about how to read/understand some of the specs for TWS IEMs, specifically bluetooth connectivity. How can I tell if a pair will connect to two devices simultaneously? I have an iPhone 7 (which only has bluetooth 4.2) and am looking to buy an Apple Watch 5 series (which has bluetooth 5). I want a pair of truly wireless headphones that will connect to both devices, without there being much of a process for switching back and forth (for example, my Bose QuietComfort 35 does this). I also want something that I can use with my Apple Watch while working out (running, shooting hoops, and weightlifting).



wow! I had NO idea the iPhone 7 ‘only’ has BT 4.2. This was my main audio source until last fall. 

i think what your are looking for is ‘multipoint’ which is what the QC35 are doing really nicely (coincidentally this is what’s on my ears right now) and they switch pretty seamlessly between my Mac and my iPhone. 

I understand that this multipoint is still a bit of a holy grail for TWS, I believe there’s only a few around / in the pipeline. The closest thing you can get IF you are in the Apple ecosystem anyways are the AirPods Pro. You still have to switch manually but it is much much faster than with any other buds ...


----------



## Caipirina

SoundChoice said:


> That's cheating, but definitely a solution: BUY TWO!


But isn’t it more annoying to switch which set goes into your ears?


----------



## voicemaster

Caipirina said:


> wow! I had NO idea the iPhone 7 ‘only’ has BT 4.2. This was my main audio source until last fall.
> 
> i think what your are looking for is ‘multipoint’ which is what the QC35 are doing really nicely (coincidentally this is what’s on my ears right now) and they switch pretty seamlessly between my Mac and my iPhone.
> 
> I understand that this multipoint is still a bit of a holy grail for TWS, I believe there’s only a few around / in the pipeline. The closest thing you can get IF you are in the Apple ecosystem anyways are the AirPods Pro. You still have to switch manually but it is much much faster than with any other buds ...



Fiil T1X and Mifo 07 are quite fast to connect and reconnect from one to another device.


----------



## Caipirina

voicemaster said:


> Fiil T1X and Mifo 07 are quite fast to connect and reconnect from one to another device.



But you first have to make the original source 'disconnect' (or even forget) the buds, no? Not so with the APP (and the PBP), I just click on my mac 'get that guy' and it switches in an instant. no prior disconnect needed.


----------



## voicemaster

Caipirina said:


> But you first have to make the original source 'disconnect' (or even forget) the buds, no? Not so with the APP (and the PBP), I just click on my mac 'get that guy' and it switches in an instant. no prior disconnect needed.


Disconnect but not forget lol.


----------



## Caipirina

voicemaster said:


> Disconnect but not forget lol.


I few cases I had to do ‘forget’ because the buds would simply reconnect to the first source. But YMMV  the funz of BT


----------



## chinmie

Caipirina said:


> wow! I had NO idea the iPhone 7 ‘only’ has BT 4.2. This was my main audio source until last fall.
> 
> i think what your are looking for is ‘multipoint’ which is what the QC35 are doing really nicely (coincidentally this is what’s on my ears right now) and they switch pretty seamlessly between my Mac and my iPhone.
> 
> I understand that this multipoint is still a bit of a holy grail for TWS, I believe there’s only a few around / in the pipeline. The closest thing you can get IF you are in the Apple ecosystem anyways are the AirPods Pro. You still have to switch manually but it is much much faster than with any other buds ...



that's one thing that makes me curious to buy the Bose QC35, because my WH XM3 can't even do that right. 
i still rely on my neckband /wired BTs, for multiple device connection, because all of them can do that without a problem.


----------



## Caipirina

chinmie said:


> that's one thing that makes me curious to buy the Bose QC35, because my WH XM3 can't even do that right.
> i still rely on my neckband /wired BTs, for multiple device connection, because all of them can do that without a problem.



That was the main reason that got me to not even seriously consider the WH XM3 (that, and they make my ears sweaty) .. they might have 10% better ANC, but the QC35 are super comfortable and switch super easy between devices (which can be annoying, like watching a movie on my Mac and then the phone rings and hijacks the connection ... again, never ever dare calling me   )


----------



## martiniCZ

Timastyle said:


> Do you mean the Haylou GT1 Pro?  Found the Pro and standard GT1 on Amazon but no plus.
> 
> Nevermind. Google clarified there is a Plus. Just don't see it on Amazon.


GT1 PLUS have qualcomm qcc3020 with aptx and uses another membrane, other GT1's uses realteks. On the banggood link you can find table with comparing of all haylou models.  :
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/400...5.0,pvid:0c4264a1-468a-4303-b7d4-36f2e7545b55 or https://www.banggood.com/cs/Haylou-...UqqNzw1xoC6EcQAvD_BwE&ID=224&cur_warehouse=CN


----------



## thimantha (Jan 26, 2020)

DynamicEars said:


> and i was surprised the new Haylou GT1 *PLUS *dont have many love here, i read about T5 sometimes and crin also give good impressions, but the the GT1 plus is much better than T5, same balance signature very smooth, with better sub bass, not as peaky as T5 high mids (3khz) and T5 sounded thin in mids compared to GT1 plus, not to mention the Plus have better soundstage, imaging and details, and APTX. everything i got for $25 crazy.



Have had the GT1 Plus for two days. I love it! Thanks for recommending it BTW. You're the reason why I got them over the T5s.


----------



## Sebulr (Jan 26, 2020)

I have a set of bomaker sifi coming today. Paid £28 I'll compare them to my ceppekky h01 for which I paid £27.


----------



## gourab1995 (Jan 26, 2020)

DynamicEars said:


> and i was surprised the new Haylou GT1 *PLUS *dont have many love here, i read about T5 sometimes and crin also give good impressions, but the the GT1 plus is much better than T5, same balance signature very smooth, with better sub bass, not as peaky as T5 high mids (3khz) and T5 sounded thin in mids compared to GT1 plus, not to mention the Plus have better soundstage, imaging and details, and APTX. everything i got for $25 crazy.



How does the latency in game mode compare? 

My number one use case is for gaming.


----------



## martiniCZ (Jan 26, 2020)

gourab1995 said:


> How does the latency in game mode compare?
> 
> My number one use case is for gaming.


Gaming mode (3 tap) has only KZ S1. But you can watch some gaming test of GT1 plus with PUBG here 

updated: ST1D don't have gaming mode


----------



## DynamicEars

gourab1995 said:


> How does the latency in game mode compare?
> 
> My number one use case is for gaming.



if that your priority, you are all set with T5, GT1 plus in normal mode have low latency but compared to T5 gaming mode, t5 gaming mode still better in latency. But for watching movies, Gt1 plus is enough


----------



## APC01 (Jan 26, 2020)

Caipirina said:


> Can’t help with that one as I HATE phone calls and curse everyone who dares calling me while I listen to music. Phone calls are sooo 1997


Do do you know this tws? is it a better than spunky or kz s1?

*QCY T5 V5.0 *
https://m.es.aliexpress.com/item/40...&terminal_id=ad7dd181fcd4452d9bc6c52b70b32fb9

or  qcy t1c

https://www.amazon.es/QCY-T1C-Auric...1&refinements=p_89:QCY&rnid=1692911031&sr=8-4


thanks


----------



## bronco1015

gourab1995 said:


> Im surprised no one mentions the qcy t5's in this price segment. Low latency, more than decent sound quality. Tradeoff is you don't get water proof, usb c. Not suitable for bassheads. Superb for gaming, connection and sound wise as well. Battery life is ok. All for an insanely low price, its even on sale right now for lesser than usual.
> 
> Edit: It is sweat resistant.


,At bartig shared a pretty good review of the QCY T5, i've never tried them but if i didn't already have 4 solid options in that price range, i'd posibly consider them, i did like the QCY T1C i owned.


----------



## gourab1995 (Jan 26, 2020)

bronco1015 said:


> ,At bartig shared a pretty good review of the QCY T5, i've never tried them but if i didn't already have 4 solid options in that price range, i'd posibly consider them, i did like the QCY T1C i owned.


Yes, the qcy t5 seem to be the perfect choice if gaming latency is top on the list. But for music/movies as dynamic ears had suggested, the haylou gt1 plus beat them.

Since i have the qcy t5 i cant give a comparison myself. I can only say that the experience with the t5 so far has been positive.

What are the 4 solid options you suggest?


----------



## BigZ12

DynamicEars said:


> and i was surprised the new Haylou GT1 *PLUS *dont have many love here, i read about T5 sometimes and crin also give good impressions, but the the GT1 plus is much better than T5, same balance signature very smooth, with better sub bass, not as peaky as T5 high mids (3khz) and T5 sounded thin in mids compared to GT1 plus, not to mention the Plus have better soundstage, imaging and details, and APTX. everything i got for $25 crazy.


Look promising, but no volume control?


----------



## gourab1995 (Jan 26, 2020)

martiniCZ said:


> Gaming mode (3 tap) has only KZ S1. But you can watch some gaming test of GT1 plus with PUBG here
> 
> updated: ST1D don't have gaming mode




I bought the t5 after seeing kenneth tanakas video on them. His test was a little more scientific (with measurements). He did review the gt1 plus talking about the good sound, but did not give the latency test for them.(yet...?)


----------



## Caipirina

APC01 said:


> Do do you know this tws? is it a better than spunky or kz s1?
> 
> *QCY T5 V5.0 *
> https://m.es.aliexpress.com/item/40...&terminal_id=ad7dd181fcd4452d9bc6c52b70b32fb9
> ...



They are both highly rated on https://www.scarbir.com   (which is our pal @Bartig 's website, so far I found his reviews to be spot on) ... I don't know the QCY T5, did not feel like trying another stem based TWS.
The T1C is a very good all-rounder, but rather clunky (in size) compared to the Spunky Beats and overall a bit generic / boring


----------



## base08

Caipirina said:


> They are both highly rated on https://www.scarbir.com   (which is our pal @Bartig 's website, so far I found his reviews to be spot on) ... I don't know the QCY T5, did not feel like trying another stem based TWS.
> The T1C is a very good all-rounder, but rather clunky (in size) compared to the Spunky Beats and overall a bit generic / boring



Just as a reminder, be aware that two versions of the T1C/QS1 are floating in the market, where the old one has the sound and performance that everyone seems to like and the new version has a rattling driver on the lower bass regions. On the other side the new version has Master-Master configuration, meaning that you don’t need to use the right side first.

It’s not so noticeable while listening to music but if you check them properly with frequency sweeps will hear difference.






The brown box is the old version and the white version is the new.


----------



## Peddler

I've just posted a (very late) review of the remarkable Lypertek Tevi's. 

https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/lypertek-tevi.23980/reviews

I love these headphones.


----------



## bronco1015

gourab1995 said:


> Yes, the qcy t5 seem to be the perfect choice if gaming latency is top on the list. But for music/movies as dynamic ears had suggested, the haylou gt1 plus beat them.
> 
> Since i have the qcy t5 i cant give a comparison myself. I can only say that the experience with the t5 so far has been positive.
> 
> What are the 4 solid options you suggest?


This is with sound quality as top priority, that was the case for me, not necessarily everyone of course. But 1 of them is the anbes 359, which like the QCY does appear in similar form factors online like the SSK BT03. But unfortunately that pair i haven't seen available for months. the others are the tronsmart spunky beat, Bomaker SiFi and Fiil T1x, with an honorable mention going to the Tranya B530 pro. Just reviewed those but going to gift them most likely. All 3 of them are great all arounders, but the fiil T1x seem to be the hardest of the 3 to get world wide, but they do seem to have lots of qc issues. e.g. driver flex, 1 person has some sort of ""rf"" interference"" was the term they used, the spunky beats isolate well due to their small size, and they have a great but midforward sound, doesn't bother me really, the bass does get a bit loose at times and higher volumes but not excessive bass imo, the sifi are a solid choice, but of these 3 they probably have the least amount of detail. but we're talking neck and neck. When taking comfort in to account, my 2 favorites over all not in any order are the spunky beats and bomaker sifis.


----------



## DynamicEars

BigZ12 said:


> Look promising, but no volume control?



No volume control, like almost any other tws on their price segment. No big deal though. For me sound quality above anything else


----------



## RobinFood

So between the QCY T5 and the KZ S1, which would you choose for wireless gaming? I was eyeing the razer hammerheads, but it seems silly now to spend 4-5 times the amount now. Are there any other contenders for gaming?


----------



## martiniCZ (Jan 26, 2020)

BigZ12 said:


> Look promising, but no volume control?


No, and no type C!
I still can't find a decent replacement for the onyx neo that unfortunately only doesn't understand my player. Everything is either big, expensive, or doesn't have all the features I want, maybe really too soon for me .


----------



## BigZ12

Peddler said:


> I've just posted a (very late) review of the remarkable Lypertek Tevi's.
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/lypertek-tevi.23980/reviews
> 
> I love these headphones.


I love(d) them too, especially with a little fuller sound and more bass after the update. 

BUT, after the update, I reset them for deleting paired devices and then I ruined the blueotooth connection. I just get "power on" on the left, and "ding dong dong" on the right (in loop) when taking them out together. 
If I take out the left first and let it connect, it works but the app won't connect (iOS 13). There's also lower volume on left. If I (one rare time) get into the app and use a preset setting, the volume levels out.
Either/or, I cannot use them anymore.

I've contacted Lypertek several times, begging for an updated beta firmware, but they are on holiday and won't help me before 3rd of Feb they say.


----------



## BigZ12

martiniCZ said:


> No, and no type C!
> I still can't find a decent replacement for the onyx neo that unfortunately only doesn't understand my player. Everything is either big, expensive, or doesn't have all the features I want, maybe really too soon for me .


 
I have the Tronsmart Spunky Beat. I like them alot, except for the very sensitive touch controls.
Is the Onyx Neo even better than the Spunky Beats?


----------



## gourab1995 (Jan 26, 2020)

RobinFood said:


> So between the QCY T5 and the KZ S1, which would you choose for wireless gaming? I was eyeing the razer hammerheads, but it seems silly now to spend 4-5 times the amount now. Are there any other contenders for gaming?



I too was in this dilemma while looking to buy. I decided by comparing specs and graphs between the 2. The T5 has more battery life, they seem to have less complains with connection stability. And the graphs of kz s1 looked a bit treble harsh compared to the qcy t5. I referred to the graph given by thephonograph.net for the kz. Crinacles graph database for the t5.

And so i ended up with the t5 instead of the s1. Also by any chance if you still want to get the kz. The dynamic version (s1d) does not have gaming mode.

The only complain with the t5 one can have is bass amount. But i find after a tip swap with silicone ones. That is resolved as well.

And believe it or not, the t5 actually can keep up in latency with the hammerheads. I notice no humanly perceptible difference while playing games with gaming mode on and a set of wired in ears.


----------



## SilverEars (Jan 26, 2020)

gourab1995 said:


> I bought the t5 after seeing kenneth tanakas video on them. I he did review the gt1 plus talking about the good sound, but did not give the latency test for them.(yet?)


Very impressive lag result for a $20 TWS!  Very cheap.  Lowest I recall was Mometum Wireless at around 60 or so.  Question is, does this have AptX LL?  If not, it proves AptX LL is not required.


----------



## cruizin caleb

Caipirina said:


> wow! I had NO idea the iPhone 7 ‘only’ has BT 4.2. This was my main audio source until last fall.
> 
> i think what your are looking for is ‘multipoint’ which is what the QC35 are doing really nicely (coincidentally this is what’s on my ears right now) and they switch pretty seamlessly between my Mac and my iPhone.
> 
> I understand that this multipoint is still a bit of a holy grail for TWS, I believe there’s only a few around / in the pipeline. The closest thing you can get IF you are in the Apple ecosystem anyways are the AirPods Pro. You still have to switch manually but it is much much faster than with any other buds ...



Yes, after reading around on it a bit, I think I can confirm that Bluetooth multipoint is the feature I’m looking for. It’s good to know that it is rare in TWS, and that a lot of TWS are a pain to switch between devices. Though I would be okay if the iems only connect to one device at a time (don’t have multipoint) but can switch devices by the click of a button or something (without needing to do anything on the devices themselves).

The driving selling point of TWS iems for me is the possible convenience. My Bose QC30 sound good enough, definitely not better than my Sennheiser 595 or old Brainwavz B2 or Grado RS1. But way more convenient. I am envisioning buying a pair of TWS as another step in the convenience direction at the expense of some SQ. Because of its convenience, I think multipoint in TWS is a huge attraction for me.

So far these are the models that appear to have something like the multipoint feature:

Rowkin Bit Stereo ($110) (pretty bad reviews though)

AirPods mentioned by Caipirina ($250; more than i want to spend...would the Powerbeats Pro have comparable connectivity functionality?)

Jabra Active 65t mentioned by Chinmie ($150; I’m leaning towards these though I think I read somewhere that these are not true stereo—is that true?)

Suzens I9X (looks like knock off AirPods) claim multipoint functionality on their Amazon description ($86)


----------



## clerkpalmer

After my N6 pro crapped out on me, I Decided to take the plunge in the 1more ANC given the statement up thread that that have some form of sweat resistance from sound guys. Interestingly, I can’t seem to find the review anymore. Looks like it was pulled? Weird.


----------



## martiniCZ

BigZ12 said:


> I have the Tronsmart Spunky Beat. I like them alot, except for the very sensitive touch controls.
> Is the Onyx Neo even better than the Spunky Beats?


I don't have both, but many say the onyx neo sensor is even worse. Maybe I'll wait for tronsmart to fix the mistakes and then give them one more chance.


----------



## Sebulr

First impressions of the bomaker sifi, having got them today, and listening to the cure the head on the door album. I'd say they are bit brighter in the 2k to 4k region than my ceppekky ho1 and quite a bit brighter than my mifo 05. Mids are nice and bass is just OK. Sub bass maybe slightly rolled off when listening to boy harsher but is still there. 

Slightly annoyed I can't get my usual extra large tips in such a tiny case, but the smallish large tips seem to fit, as these fit quite deep like the mpow t6/m6. Buttons are slightly hard to press but control scheme is excellent.

They have a nice airy upper treble, I'm wondering if they will become fatiguing after a few hours? Perhaps someone could chime in on this?


----------



## Francesco Montanari (Jan 26, 2020)

voicemaster said:


> There is 1 glaring weakness on mifo07 and it has to be said sadly. If you only listening to jazz, rock, or instrumental in general, it is great and you can get to stupidly loud volume and it will be fine. But once you listen to let say like Lorde, Skrillex, linkin park, etc then the driver will create this cracking sound when the bass drop. It sounds just like a speaker that driven to its limit and the drivers bottomed out. Of course all this need to be listened at mid to high volume. And because mifo 07 doesn't have that bass rumble even compared to t1x (flat EQ), you will definitely pushing those volume button to get that desired bass slam. Other than that, the mifo 07 does sound awesome, even better then t1x in certain genre imho.






vaaccess said:


> absolutely agree that it isn’t for bass heads, but I do enjoy the way it plays the bass. Feels more real/pure. The Klipsch R6i set I have is definitely bass heavy, for instance!
> 
> PS. I know you aren’t bashing it!  And you are bringing up valid points for sure. Just providing my perspective.



Be sure to update the mifo 07 firmware.
I did it following a Chinese video, as soon as I can  I will try to help you (I have my daughter and my wife ill)

About equalization... I decided to keep my oneplus 7t which have equalization stored for all the tws you will connect to it. It's the best feature for our addiction


----------



## vaaccess

Francesco Montanari said:


> Be sure to update the mifo 07 firmware.
> I did following a Chinese video, as soon as I can  I will try to help you (I have my daughter and my wife I'll)
> 
> About equalization... I decided to keep my oneplus 7t which have equalizer stored for all the tws you will connect to it. It's the best feature for our addiction



????

I didn’t think about doing that, especially without a native app (silly me), but will see what I can find. That said, yes, if the instructions are only in Chinese I’ll take all the help I can get!!!


----------



## Francesco Montanari

vaaccess said:


> ????
> 
> I didn’t think about doing that, especially without a native app (silly me), but will see what I can find. That said, yes, if the instructions are only in Chinese I’ll take all the help I can get!!!



You have to download it from here 

http://www.mifo.hk/appdwon/

Inside the zip you will find 3 folders: one with the apk and 2 with firmware. One for dual driver pair and one for single driver version. Also you will find a video 

I did it with another phone following the video and using Google translator in real-time via cam


----------



## gourab1995 (Jan 26, 2020)

SilverEars said:


> Very impressive lag result for a $20 TWS!  Very cheap.  Lowest I recall was Mometum Wireless at around 60 or so.  Question is, does this have AptX LL?  If not, it proves AptX LL is not required.



Are those measurements with gaming mode engaged, are they on video or games. Because they perform different on games and video (better on video) atleast from kenneths video. And yes it does seem so aptx does not mean faster connection all the time. These use some Taiwanese chip from audiowise, no sign of aptx.

It depends if your source has the latest bluetooth or not as well.


----------



## SilverEars (Jan 26, 2020)

gourab1995 said:


> Are those measurements with gaming mode engaged, are they on video or games. Because they perform different on games and video (better on video) atleast from kenneths video. And yes it does seem so aptx does not mean faster connection all the time. These use some Taiwanese chip from audiowise, no sign of aptx.
> 
> It depends if your source has the latest bluetooth or not as well.


It's from this review.  https://www.0db.co.kr/REVIEW_0DB/1101022

Use Google translate and look at section *5. Group Delay*

translation:

"This is a Group Delay item that should be included in the Bluetooth product measurement review. *This is the item that checks how much delay occurs in each frequency band until a signal is generated and returned to the measurement equipment. It is almost 0ms for wired products. *That's why wireline products don't show measurement data, but* it's very important to see how well an important antenna design is used in a Bluetooth product and whether you've used a good Bluetooth chip. *


Measured at 290 ms. There is no problem in the Android phone, and in case of the iPhone, it is not inconvenient to watch videos, but if you are sensitive, you may feel a slight lag."


----------



## gourab1995 (Jan 26, 2020)

SilverEars said:


> It's from this review.  https://www.0db.co.kr/REVIEW_0DB/1101022
> 
> Use Google translate and look at section *5. Group Delay*
> 
> ...



I bet that figure for the t5 is without the gaming mode on though. Sounds about right for normal mode.

Anyways its not all about latency. Currently im on some silicone tips with a larger bore than usual. These sound so good. Bass is thumping with them on.


----------



## SilverEars (Jan 26, 2020)

gourab1995 said:


> I bet that figure is without the gaming mode on though. Sounds about right for normal mode.


I don't even know what gaming mode is.  I didn't know of it's existence, but sounds like it's for either certain TWS models or a chip feature (you said it's a chip from Taiwanese company).

There's AptX LL, and are there other stuff that don't advertise like Qualcomm?  I'm wondering if 0db's delay test is just based on lowest performance possible mode on or not (or just raw performance that does not depend on any mode), or there must be mode on to reduce the group delay further.  That's the big question.


----------



## gourab1995 (Jan 26, 2020)

SilverEars said:


> I don't even know what gaming mode is.  I didn't know of it's existence, but sounds like it's for either certain TWS models or a chip feature (you said it's a chip from Taiwanese company).
> 
> There's AptX LL, and is there something else?  I'm wondering if 0db's delay test is just based on lowest performance possible mode on or not, or there must be mode on to reduce the group delay further.  That's the big question.



The gaming mode is a chip feature as advertised by qcy. I turn the mode on by triple tapping on the right earbud. Triple tap again turns it off. Usually the way they get to these latencies is by reducing bitrate. Although i don't specifically know what is going on here with this one. The tradeoff could probably be battery life. I haven't tested mine regarding battery.

Some of the other chifi tws have this low latency mode, even the kz s1 is a tws without aptx


----------



## turbobb

FWIW, the Echo Buds are on sale for $90 USD right now.


----------



## cruizin caleb

turbobb said:


> FWIW, the Echo Buds are on sale for $90 USD right now.



Also, I believe the Tranya T3 are on a lightening deal on amazon for $30 (from $50). I think there should be a couple hours left.


----------



## HiFlight

FWIW, I have listed my Jabra 65t, Back Bay Duet 50 and Nillkin Go on the F.S. forum.


----------



## Luke Skywalker

Got my NUARL N6 Pro’s today   the sound is significantly better than my Jabra 65’s!  

So what are the ear loops for?  I stretched them a little and they didn’t seem big enough to go around the outside of my ear... 

Thanks again for the advice on getting these puppies


----------



## Caipirina

Luke Skywalker said:


> So what are the ear loops for?  I stretched them a little and they didn’t seem big enough to go around the outside of my ear...




I can’t tell if you are joking or if you seriously tried that ...


----------



## clerkpalmer

Caipirina said:


> I can’t tell if you are joking or if you seriously tried that ...


Lol. Me neither.


----------



## SoundChoice

Caipirina said:


> I few cases I had to do ‘forget’ because the buds would simply reconnect to the first source. But YMMV  the funz of BT



the Sifi are the intrusive elephants that rememberingly  over-connect and take over my car connection that I have to force to forget


----------



## Luke Skywalker

clerkpalmer said:


> Lol. Me neither.


Haha well...after I stretched them a little I gave up on the idea.  
Can someone tell this dummy what they’re for?


----------



## Sam L

turbobb said:


> FWIW, the Echo Buds are on sale for $90 USD right now.


Yeah just saw that. I just missed the best buy price match window. 

I decided not to return them because they're worth msrp of $129, but not after lots of deliberation. The recent firmware update sealed the deal for me.

But, at $89 these are a great buy! I'll detail more when I get home. (was checking this thread while waiting in Costco line)


----------



## turbobb

@Sam L  I had been debating getting them since I wanted to save up for the top tier TWS to come but couldn't pass them up at this price. I had tested my nephew's set and was pretty impressed by them.

EDIT: interested in your feedback, especially about the FW update.


----------



## clerkpalmer

Luke Skywalker said:


> Haha well...after I stretched them a little I gave up on the idea.
> Can someone tell this dummy what they’re for?



They are pretty useless to be honest.


----------



## bandario

Just spent a bit of time mucking around with ViPer4Android and I have to say that I remain ridiculously impressed with the Syllable S101 earbuds. 

I'm a big fan of Apt-x and with a bit of EQ, Viper DDC, Viper Bass....these things are incredible. I think a big part of this is that the tips fit my ear canals near perfectly. It sounds like the music is coming from inside my brain. 

APT-X and dual-drivers ftw.


----------



## Caipirina

Luke Skywalker said:


> Haha well...after I stretched them a little I gave up on the idea.
> Can someone tell this dummy what they’re for?



Like other wing-y extensions as seen on others, they are supposed to help you tug them into the ear a bit nicer, more stable. 
But I am with @clerkpalmer on this, I found them to be too small for my ears to reach that back curve cavity to give any kind of hold. 

The Bose SoundSport Free on the other hand do a kick ass job at providing extra stability thanks to wings. 

Here's a random example from google on where those 'wings' are supposed to go


----------



## mattedialdoc

Anyone use their TWS while riding the Peloton bike?
Although Bart in his review said Spunky Beat had no lag, it has bad lag on the Peloton streams. The Bomaker and the M5/T5 have none. Just curious if others see lag.


----------



## FYLegend

assassin10000 said:


> It dies on one side quickly as the 4.2 BT device doesn't connect to both buds simultaneously.
> 
> Sounds like your neo get better battery life than my spunky beats did (averaged around 3hr +/-20 min).


It drains fast with AptX on Bluetooth 5.0 as well, if your device doesn't use Qualcomm TWS+. Even just leaving them on my desk drains a lot. I haven't had this much drain with the Sabbat E12 Ultra which uses the same chipset.


----------



## posnera

I think I'm going to pick up an inexpensive pair.  From the discussion, I've narrowed it to these three:
FIIL T1X
Spunky Beat
Bomaker

I generally listen to rock/jazz.  Not interested in overpowering bass.
I'll be running them off my iPhone, so I can't use EQ easily.

Any opinions?  For $50 at most, it isn't much of a risk.


----------



## Caipirina

By chance I grabbed my Syllable S101 last night, had not touched them in probably over 6 weeks. 
And very positively surprised that they still had ample charge, connected on the dot and still sound quite fabulous (IMHO).
That's one thing I really cherish in a TWS set: reliability. 
No surprise battery drain over night, forgotten connection and the like. 
That was a good purchase


----------



## wksoh (Jan 26, 2020)

posnera said:


> I think I'm going to pick up an inexpensive pair.  From the discussion, I've narrowed it to these three:
> FIIL T1X
> Spunky Beat
> Bomaker
> ...


I have what you listed except bomaker.
Fiil T1X gets the most love here.
But I prefer Mpow M5 for strong mids and more powerful volume. Esp For Rock and Jazz, most of the instrument frequencies occupy the mids.
But I'm a minority vote 
$75 will get the JBL Free x which I think is very good too.


----------



## posnera

Well, as long as this is going to get more complicated, what about the newer Mpow models.  M20?
Most of the Amazon reviews are about snorkeling goggles.


----------



## turbobb

wksoh said:


> I have what you listed except bomaker.
> Fiil T1X gets the most love here.
> But I prefer Mpow M5 for strong mids and more powerful volume. Esp For Rock and Jazz, most of the instrument frequencies occupy the mids.
> But I'm a minority vote
> $75 will get the JBL Free x which I think is very good too.



I'm with you on this: I've not tried the SB but the T1X was just a teensy bright for my tastes, still tolerable but would be fatiguing over long sessions and especially with jazz. The Bomaker had a similar profile to the M5 but I think the M5 would be best for the two specific genres mentioned.


----------



## assassin10000

posnera said:


> I think I'm going to pick up an inexpensive pair.  From the discussion, I've narrowed it to these three:
> FIIL T1X
> Spunky Beat
> Bomaker
> ...



I haven't heard the bomaker or t1x. The Spunky Beats had a fairly well balanced sound. It did have a lift in the lower end, as I pulled a couple db at 31 & 63hz on my eq. But it wasn't bad sounding. Much better than my qcy qs1 and as good as my x12's.

I primarily listen to bass heavy genres, so with rock/jazz I probably wouldn't have pulled any.


----------



## FYLegend

https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/dsi-the-true-wireless-noise-cancelling-earbud#/

Finally something that has Qi charging, USB  Type-C, volume control, AptX, ambient sound.


----------



## SoundChoice

FYLegend said:


> https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/dsi-the-true-wireless-noise-cancelling-earbud#/
> 
> Finally something that has Qi charging, USB  Type-C, volume control, AptX, ambient sound.



I will sell an IPX19 with 5,725 hours play time and a 5-mile range for just $8,500.


----------



## wksoh (Jan 27, 2020)

turbobb said:


> I'm with you on this: I've not tried the SB but the T1X was just a teensy bright for my tastes, still tolerable but would be fatiguing over long sessions and especially with jazz. The Bomaker had a similar profile to the M5 but I think the M5 would be best for the two specific genres mentioned.


 nice. I actually prefer spunky beat to T1X. But I think spunky upper mid a little shouty, if I turn vol up, it gets more shouty. Plus it's very small that I didn't get a good seal when I move my Jaws. I havnt played with EQ or tips. SSK is actually very good, but don't have the power of Mpow M5. When turn loud, the mpow m5 sound will not crackle.


----------



## wksoh (Jan 27, 2020)

posnera said:


> Well, as long as this is going to get more complicated, what about the newer Mpow models.  M20?
> Most of the Amazon reviews are about snorkeling goggles.


I can't recommend other mpow as I havnt tried them. But I have referenced some TWS against the $1000 Shure 846cl wired Quad driver. I was surprised the M5 has very close sound signature.
The use of reference is critical, otherwise we may digress.
But don't take my word for it. Get both the most loved T1X and Mpow M5 and decide for yourself . I'm sure you'd like one of them!


----------



## voicemaster

posnera said:


> I think I'm going to pick up an inexpensive pair.  From the discussion, I've narrowed it to these three:
> FIIL T1X
> Spunky Beat
> Bomaker
> ...



Can't go wrong with T1X (have EQ from the app), especially if you can use amazon USA.


----------



## Sunstealer

assassin10000 said:


> According to Misodiko you need a good solid retention lip. What they call keyway style nozzle.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Thanks for this. The Bomaker Sifi has the exact same configuration. I have ordered some silicone Mikodiso TWS Joy Tips  to try first. 

I used a pair of medium tips that came with Jade Audio EA3. They just fit in the case but I'm not sure they allow full contact with the charging points.


----------



## Odioer

wksoh said:


> I can't recommend other mpow as I havnt tried them. But I have referenced some TWS against the $1000 Shure 846cl wired Quad driver. I was surprised the M5 has very close sound signature.
> The use of reference is critical, otherwise we may digress.
> But don't take my word for it. Get both the most loved T1X and Mpow M5 and decide for yourself . I'm sure you'd like one of them!


I have the SSK and the QCY QS2. Absolutely love the sound of both, have been picking the SSK's more often for the punchy bass, though I like the imaging and soundstage wider and better on QCY. The description of meaty mids  and punchy bass on the M5 are making me consider them. IF they have a wide soundstage(more like 3D holographic sound the my QCY has) i would jump on them right away.


----------



## wksoh (Jan 28, 2020)

Odioer said:


> I have the SSK and the QCY QS2. Absolutely love the sound of both, have been picking the SSK's more often for the punchy bass, though I like the imaging and soundstage wider and better on QCY. The description of meaty mids  and punchy bass on the M5 are making me consider them. IF they have a wide soundstage(more like 3D holographic sound the my QCY has) i would jump on them right away.


The M5 bass is stronger but is of the smooth type. The SSK bass is of the impact type. The M5 lower mids is a little more pronounced. It will sound thicker than SSK.
When I compared the SSK agianst the reference wired quad driver Shure 846CL, right away no contest because it's simply not powerful enough, not rich enough. On its own it sounds good.
But mpow M5 was different, it stood toe to toe with the Shure 846cl. Same sound signature, same smooth bass. same thick mids, same power. Even the treble roll off is the same be it muddy or not.
If you want a Shure 846cl in TWS form. The Mpow M5 is the answer, save $850. Somehow, Nakamichi TW211 uses mpow M5 as a rebrand (see picture below). Sound is identical to M5.
But one man's meat is another man's poison.. I'm very afraid to disappoint you . Some board members who have m5 are not as impressed. Maybe it's the music genre as well.

This is the reference Ive been using:
Shure SE846-CL Sound Isolating Earphones with Quad High Definition MicroDrivers and True Subwoofer https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00DIUGW6A/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_i_zAOlEbV77QFQW


----------



## voicemaster

wksoh said:


> I can't recommend other mpow as I havnt tried them. But I have referenced some TWS against the $1000 Shure 846cl wired Quad driver. I was surprised the M5 has very close sound signature.
> The use of reference is critical, otherwise we may digress.
> But don't take my word for it. Get both the most loved T1X and Mpow M5 and decide for yourself . I'm sure you'd like one of them!



I am using my 1964 V8 and JVC FX1100 for reference mostly.


----------



## wksoh

voicemaster said:


> I am using my 1964 V8 and JVC FX1100 for reference mostly.


Nice.. You have mpow M5 too!


----------



## voicemaster

wksoh said:


> Nice.. You have mpow M5 too!


Yes I do, but not for long. I am giving away my rarely used TWS to my family. I am only keeping 3-4 TWS (mifo 07, fiil t1x, tronsmart spunky beats and samsung galaxy buds).


----------



## bandario

FYLegend said:


> https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/dsi-the-true-wireless-noise-cancelling-earbud#/
> 
> Finally something that has Qi charging, USB  Type-C, volume control, AptX, ambient sound.



Call me old fashioned but I'd rather buy from an established brand with a R&D department (even if they are Chinatech) than roll the dice with some young upstarts ordering to spec from the same Chinese manufacturer. SO MANY of these indiegogo campaigns end up delivering a pile of garbage or not delivering at all.

If you think about it, a company that already has a brand out there in the marketplace has much more to lose if they release a crappy product than any startup that nobody has heard of.


----------



## Odioer (Jan 27, 2020)

wksoh said:


> The M5 bass is stronger but is of the smooth type. The SSK bass is of the impact type. The M5 lower mids is a little more pronounced. It will sound thicker than SSK.
> When I compared the SSK agianst the reference wired quad driver Shure 846CL, right away no contest because it's simply not powerful enough, not rich enough. On its own it sounds good.
> But mpow M5 was different, it stood toe to toe with the Shure 846cl. Same sound signature, same smooth bass. same thick mids, same power. Even the treble roll off is the same be it muddy or not.
> If you want a Shure 846cl in TWS form. The Mpow M5 is the answer, save $850. Even Nakamichi TW211 use mpow M5 as a rebrand (see picture below). Sound is identical to M5.
> ...


Thanks dear, your comparison with shure speaks enough in itself. I read a lot of appreciation towards spunky beats. Would you consider them contesting with M5/ssk?
I mostly listen to EDM(melodic progressive/psytrance), chill-out, lounge, some rock muse/lp/pink Floyd/audioslave and sometimes bollywood.

Also, how would you compare the soundstage and instrument separation on the SSK and m5. Thanks


----------



## wksoh (Feb 24, 2020)

Odioer said:


> Thanks dear, your comparison with shure speaks enough in itself. I read a lot of appreciation towards spunky beats. Would you consider them contesting with M5/ssk?
> I mostly listen to EDM(melodic progressive/psytrance), chill-out, lounge, some rock muse/lp/pink Floyd/audioslave and sometimes bollywood.
> Also, how would you compare the soundstage and instrument separation on the SSK and m5. Thanks



Wow,.. this is really a matter of preference. I'm biased towards fuller mids.
But this is only my opinion: M5 and SSK have better bass and better mids than Spunky Beats (standard tips). Spunky beats have forward upper mids that I think are shouty especially vocals. Some folks are able to fix that with foam tips.

I'm not an audiophile and have limited knowledge about soundstage and separation.
But this is my other reference. These things are played often through 12 inch speakers..  they do sound thick and ballsy in real life..


----------



## Caipirina

wksoh said:


>



Biggest TWS ever! How's the fit?


----------



## wksoh

Caipirina said:


> Biggest TWS ever! How's the fit?


Gigantic wing tips


----------



## Francesco Montanari

Caipirina said:


> Biggest TWS ever! How's the fit?


My Rickenbacker 360 fits great


----------



## rhsauer (Jan 27, 2020)

webvan said:


> I've written about my experiences with them before but since you like the stellar isolation and rich SQ of the Amazon Echo Buds I'm afraid you're not going to like them but you be the judge !



The Libratone Track Air+ arrived yesterday, and so far so good.  I really like the sound.  I wonder, @webvan, whether you were getting a good enough seal on the Air+, because I find their bass remarkable and their highs not harsh at all.  One of the good things about the Air+ is that even though the case is tiny, there's room for various sizes of alternative tips -- so, if the form factor works for you at all, you should be able to find a good fit/seal.

Comparing them to the Echo Buds, the Air+ don't have the same deep insertion -- the Air+ fit is like a cross between the APP and the Echo Buds.  Recent firmware updates have added volume controls to both the Air+ and the Echo Buds.  Both are rated IPX4.  The Air+ purport to offer an additional hour of runtime (which I have not tested yet, obviously).  Both (following the firmware update on the Air+) have AAC, but the Air+ also offers aptX.

Bottom line:  I'd give the sound edge to the Air+, and the feature edge to the Echo Buds because of the Alexa integration and better isolation because of the deeper fit.  The Air+ also look better to me, but that's subjective.  Both earphones are great choices.


----------



## posnera

voicemaster said:


> Can't go wrong with T1X (have EQ from the app), especially if you can use amazon USA.



EQ from an app is the deciding factor.
Ordered!

Thanks to all for the advice.


----------



## X-Nemesis

https://www.amazon.in/Lenovo-HT10-Headphones-AirBass-Rated-Waterproof/dp/B07XWJCD4D?language=en_IN

Has anyone tried the lenovo ht10's?


----------



## Caipirina (Jan 27, 2020)

Maybe I missed the hype train on those, the really hard to search for (in this forum) TRN 200 TWS.

I was just reading the review on scarbir, lovely sound, but slight hiss, when I noticed that apparently the price dropped from 45$ to below 30 (and if you are in Russia you can have it for under 20 from one shop).

What's the word on those from others? And are they really hybrids? As many AE sellers claim? Scarbit does not mention that at all.


----------



## Luke Skywalker

Caipirina said:


> Like other wing-y extensions as seen on others, they are supposed to help you tug them into the ear a bit nicer, more stable.
> But I am with @clerkpalmer on this, I found them to be too small for my ears to reach that back curve cavity to give any kind of hold.
> 
> The Bose SoundSport Free on the other hand do a kick ass job at providing extra stability thanks to wings.
> ...


Ha thanks...  They don't really fit in my ear like that either

So I'll tell you, these N6's are definitely superior to my Jabra 65's, not just for sound but for call quality.  

So this might actually be helpful...  I bought some Acoustune AET 08 tips for my JH Lola's and they work AWESOME for the N6's.  I tried all the sizes of spinfits, the foam... Nothing worked.  They kept popping out


----------



## Luke Skywalker

SoundChoice said:


> I will sell an IPX19 with 5,725 hours play time and a 5-mile range for just $8,500.


hahaha


----------



## SilverEars (Jan 27, 2020)

I've seen a talk by a university professor on TWS, and he points out that master and slave system will have worse signal quality than systems with two earpieces connecting individually due to the master-slave system having to communicate through/around a big obstruction, the head!

He also points out that microphone performance on TWS will always suffer due to the placement of the microphone.  I don't knoe if this problem will be solvable.


----------



## Pete7874

Francesco Montanari said:


> Hi! Thanks a lot for your review, maybe you have to do a little update since 2 days ago soundcore app update brings custom EQ also on android


Well, that's a welcome addition.  I've been waiting on Anker to do this.  Thanks!


----------



## gocam

dlilker said:


> I have the new Ticpods 2 Pro for sale...just tried them out a couple of times comes in original box with all..PM me with offer if interested. Thanks!



These have the qcc5121 I think, is that right ? Did they end up implementing AptX-HD ? How did they fit/sound for you ? It is hard to find any useful review given their newness....


----------



## BigZ12 (Jan 27, 2020)

BTW... it's f...ing annoying living in Norway, when you're interested in TWSs...
Amazon don't ship to Norway, so it's very difficult to get hold of the TWS you're mostly talking about lately.
Nuarl N6 Pro, Fiil T1X, Bomaker Sifi, Edifier TWS6, Soundcore Liberty 2 Pro, Mifo 07, All Tranya TWS etc etc
Some are available at Geekbuying, AliExpress and such, but with bad return policies if something is wrong (I just got only $10 in refund for broken SSK BT03s at Ali. Lost $19).
The loooong delivery time on these sites sending from Asia, is also a deal breaker.


----------



## BobJS

Don't want both.  Please decide for me.

N6 or N6Pro?


----------



## d3myz (Jan 27, 2020)

BobJS said:


> Don't want both.  Please decide for me.
> 
> N6 or N6Pro?


Depends. do you want bass with less detail or not much bass and lots of detail? I think the N6 pro sounds cleaner, but with Eqing the N6 sounds about 90+% the same. the N6pro lacks midbass and low-end, but I've been told you can eq this. I didn't try it before I returned mine. N6 has some driver flex. N6 pro doesn't. So folks on here said the N6 pro was a little hot/sharp for their taste, I can agree to that, but just barely IMO.


----------



## Francesco Montanari

gocam said:


> These have the qcc5121 I think, is that right ? Did they end up implementing AptX-HD ? How did they fit/sound for you ? It is hard to find any useful review given their newness....


No aptx HD Is not implemented


----------



## wksoh (Jan 27, 2020)

actorlife said:


> This is my go to recently. Clear Vocals, Clear shimmer on the cymbals and Bass notes. The Anbes plays this perfectly:



Wow... what a great song.. Thank you. Listening with SSK


----------



## wksoh (Jan 28, 2020)

Caipirina said:


> Bit tricky to judge, as I don't really know the track ... this slight distortion in the guitar is intended I guess? But I can say that the guy's screaming .. i mean emotional singing comes across sibilance free on the XG13 .. but if my ears like it? not really ... cymbals also seem ok
> 
> my old ears are probably not the best reference tool ...
> 
> ...


Sorry was browsing and saw sections of posts where folks shared their music and saw old posts.. The guitar he's playing with is the Fender Jazz Master.. The guitar has its own unique sonic distortion.. Or "shrubby"


----------



## SoundChoice

d3myz said:


> Depends. do you want bass with less detail or not much bass and lots of detail? I think the N6 pro sounds cleaner, but with Eqing the N6 sounds about 90+% the same. the N6pro lacks midbass and low-end, but I've been told you can eq this. I didn't try it before I returned mine. N6 pro has some driver flex. N6 pro doesn't. So folks on here said the N6 pro was a little hot/sharp for their taste, I can agree to that, but just barely IMO.


Wait  which one has driver flex


----------



## C_Lindbergh

BigZ12 said:


> BTW... it's f...ing annoying living in Norway, when you're interested in TWSs...
> Amazon don't ship to Norway, so it's very difficult to get hold of the TWS you're mostly talking about lately.
> Nuarl N6 Pro, Fiil T1X, Bomaker Sifi, Edifier TWS6, Soundcore Liberty 2 Pro, Mifo 07, All Tranya TWS etc etc
> Some are available at Geekbuying, AliExpress and such, but with bad return policies if something is wrong (I just got only $10 in refund for broken SSK BT03s at Ali. Lost $19).
> The loooong delivery time on these sites sending from Asia, is also a deal breaker.



Order from Amazon.de and use: 

https://www.mailboxde.com/


----------



## hifi80sman

BigZ12 said:


> BTW... it's f...ing annoying living in Norway, when you're interested in TWSs...
> Amazon don't ship to Norway, so it's very difficult to get hold of the TWS you're mostly talking about lately.
> Nuarl N6 Pro, Fiil T1X, Bomaker Sifi, Edifier TWS6, Soundcore Liberty 2 Pro, Mifo 07, All Tranya TWS etc etc
> Some are available at Geekbuying, AliExpress and such, but with bad return policies if something is wrong (I just got only $10 in refund for broken SSK BT03s at Ali. Lost $19).
> The loooong delivery time on these sites sending from Asia, is also a deal breaker.


So...maybe move to the States?  I guess Canada is OK too.


----------



## gibletzor (Jan 27, 2020)

A little bit of new info on the Galaxy Buds+ coming out in March!




Kind of confused on Active Noise "Isolation" though.  Maybe it's like the Echo Buds ANR, and they're just not allowed to call it "cancellation" because it doesn't meet some criteria.  Either way, double battery life with the same SQ sounds great to me!


----------



## hifi80sman

gibletzor said:


> A little bit of new info on the Galaxy Buds+ coming out in March!
> 
> 
> 
> Kind of confused on Active Noise "Isolation" though.  Maybe it's like the Echo Buds ANR, and they're just not allowed to call it "cancellation" because it doesn't meet some criteria.  Either way, double battery life with the same SQ sounds great to me!


I wish they would take steps towards a more robust upgrade, such as better sound with improved drivers, more codec support, full controls, more premium materials, etc.  For me, and not to rain on anyone who is excited about this, but kind of a "meh" upgrade.


----------



## BigZ12

hifi80sman said:


> So...maybe move to the States?  I guess Canada is OK too.


I wish! I would love to move to Minnesota. Join all the "millions" descendants from Norwegians in the area, that emigrated from Norway to America in the 1800s  (Actually there are about as many Norwegian descendants in America, that are living in Norway today)
Would buy myself a season ticket at the U.S. Bank Stadium, the Allianz Field and the Xcel Energy Center (to see Zuccarello) too. Guess I will go see SA Spurs when they are visiting the Target Center as well.
And of course buying all the "need to have" TWS's at Amazon.com 



C_Lindbergh said:


> Order from Amazon.de and use:
> https://www.mailboxde.com/


It's a good suggestion, but it seems the prices at Amazon.de are very high compared to Amazon.com? Nuarl N6 Pro for ex.. €260 vs $168. That's quite a price difference.
And no Fiil TX1 in the german store...so the selection isn't as good?


----------



## gibletzor (Jan 27, 2020)

hifi80sman said:


> I wish they would take steps towards a more robust upgrade, such as better sound with improved drivers, more codec support, full controls, more premium materials, etc.  For me, and not to rain on anyone who is excited about this, but kind of a "meh" upgrade.


I enjoyed the fit and sound of the originals a lot.  All-day battery with ambient, ANR, USB-C, and Qi charging sounds like a winner to me, but just like every other device we obsess over on here, everyone has different tastes so not everyone will enjoy them.

There's still the possibility of more upgrades coming with them too.  This is just an early leak.


----------



## howdy (Jan 27, 2020)

BigZ12 said:


> I wish! I would love to move to Minnesota. Join all the "millions" descendants from Norwegians in the area, that emigrated from Norway to America in the 1800s  (Actually there are about as many Norwegian descendants in America, that are living in Norway today)
> Would buy myself a season ticket at the U.S. Bank Stadium, the Allianz Field and the Xcel Energy Center (to see Zuccarello) too. Guess I will go see SA Spurs when they are visiting the Target Center as well.
> And of course buying all the "need to have" TWS's at Amazon.com


Good to see you know so much about Minnesota. I lived here most of my life and getting tired of the winters ( nothing like walking out side when it 20 to 40 or more below zero and the snot in your nose freezes instantly).

Good thing about the real cold days is sitting by the fire place and enjoying all of my TW.[/QUOTE][/QUOTE]


----------



## wksoh (Jan 27, 2020)

howdy said:


> Good to see you know so much about Minnesota. I lived here most of my life and getting tired of the winters ( nothing like walking out side when it 20 to 40 or more below zero and the snot in your nose freezes instantly).
> 
> Good thing about the real cold days is sitting by the fire place and enjoying all of my TW.


OR you can take unlimited rides in the mall of USA with your tws.


----------



## BigZ12 (Jan 27, 2020)

howdy said:


> Good to see you know so much about Minnesota. I lived here most of my life and getting tired of the winters ( nothing like walking out side when it 20 to 40 or more below zero and the snot in your nose freezes instantly).
> 
> Good thing about the real cold days is sitting by the fire place and enjoying all of my TW.


I don't know much to be honest, other than I know about the cold winters and as you can see the sports... I love both American and European football (soccer name is ga....) and hockey. Follow the leagues over there very closely. Actually am a Ducks fan, so I could move to California too... a little hotter, but more expensive?!?
And yes, I am very fascinated by all the Norwegian (and other Scandinavian) descendants over there too.
Skol, lefse, aquavit, lutefisk, 17. mai celebrations etc.  Would love to experience that over there.  I guess I won't move, but I have to take a trip there soon. It's high on my bucket list.


----------



## BigZ12 (Jan 27, 2020)

wksoh said:


> OR you can take unlimited rides in the mall of USA with your tws.


Yes, I've read that's BIG


----------



## cwill

Did anyone else find the Bomaker SIFI's highs to sound metallic and unnatural? Is this anything burn-in could mitigate?


----------



## FYLegend

gibletzor said:


> A little bit of new info on the Galaxy Buds+ coming out in March!
> 
> 
> 
> Kind of confused on Active Noise "Isolation" though.  Maybe it's like the Echo Buds ANR, and they're just not allowed to call it "cancellation" because it doesn't meet some criteria.  Either way, double battery life with the same SQ sounds great to me!


That will probably translate to 220$ CAD with fixed pricing for the first year or so...The original buds are still 199$ here which is still more than in the US. You can get it for cheaper on eBay but for US listings they make you pay customs/shipping beforehand which often offsets the price difference. Only recently have I seen with closer to US pricing on Amazon.ca (and it keeps dropping 10 cents or so by the hour!).



bandario said:


> Call me old fashioned but I'd rather buy from an established brand with a R&D department (even if they are Chinatech) than roll the dice with some young upstarts ordering to spec from the same Chinese manufacturer. SO MANY of these indiegogo campaigns end up delivering a pile of garbage or not delivering at all.
> 
> If you think about it, a company that already has a brand out there in the marketplace has much more to lose if they release a crappy product than any startup that nobody has heard of.


I don't disagree with you. I got screwed over by EarFun's campaign - now they have got recognition from mainstream networks but the early backers are left soured with defective products among other things. Even so, I still eagerly anticipate budget products that can offer even 75% of what a brand-name level product offers. It also doesn't help that bigger names like Jabra and Anker SoundCore fail to fully acknowledge manufacturer defects or inherent flaws such as audio hiss or channel imbalance.


----------



## vaaccess

bandario said:


> Call me old fashioned but I'd rather buy from an established brand with a R&D department (even if they are Chinatech) than roll the dice with some young upstarts ordering to spec from the same Chinese manufacturer. SO MANY of these indiegogo campaigns end up delivering a pile of garbage or not delivering at all.
> 
> If you think about it, a company that already has a brand out there in the marketplace has much more to lose if they release a crappy product than any startup that nobody has heard of.



I would agree with you on this, too, it’s why I went with Klipsch X11i IEMs over a foreign offering back when I bought them. 

But at the moment their offerings are projected for fall and the ones they have out now don’t get good reviews. So I opted to go with a TWS that doesn’t align with my preference to buy from companies like Klipsch. That said, they are projecting their TWS to be $650...!  Probably beyond my range regardless, sadly.


----------



## d3myz

BigZ12 said:


> I love(d) them too, especially with a little fuller sound and more bass after the update.
> 
> BUT, after the update, I reset them for deleting paired devices and then I ruined the blueotooth connection. I just get "power on" on the left, and "ding dong dong" on the right (in loop) when taking them out together.
> If I take out the left first and let it connect, it works but the app won't connect (iOS 13). There's also lower volume on left. If I (one rare time) get into the app and use a preset setting, the volume levels out.
> ...


Damnit, Lypertek.


----------



## d3myz (Jan 27, 2020)

I’m sorry if this is already been posted, but the echo buds are 89.99 right now on Amazon US. I just snagged them.


----------



## d3myz

SoundChoice said:


> Wait  which one has driver flex


Sorry, the N6 does. It only happens on insertion and Doesn’t bother me.


----------



## d3myz

1 more post........


----------



## gibletzor

hifi80sman said:


> I wish they would take steps towards a more robust upgrade, such as better sound with improved drivers, more codec support, full controls, more premium materials, etc.  For me, and not to rain on anyone who is excited about this, but kind of a "meh" upgrade.


I do agree with you on the codec support.  I know Samsung is going to do the Samsung thing, but it would be nice to see them release their SSC to other manufacturers or move toward support of LDAC or AptX-HD.


----------



## Caipirina

d3myz said:


> 1 more post........


 Beat you to it by like 20 posts   La la la ...


----------



## Veyska

howdy said:


> Good to see you know so much about Minnesota. I lived here most of my life and getting tired of the winters ( nothing like walking out side when it 20 to 40 or more below zero and the snot in your nose freezes instantly).


That's always been my metric for when it's actually freezing cold outside as opposed to merely cold.


----------



## FYLegend

Another Indiegogo launch, Pearl Buds with solar charging. They use QCC5121. Not sure if there is a complete ambient sound mode as it says there's 2 ANC modes, one is "quiet mode" that lets some sounds in. I would have preferred a full ambient mode as well as a reduced one as Sony first did on the MDR-1000X.
https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/pearl-ai-powered-earbuds-with-solar-charging?utm_source=Pre-Launch&utm_campaign=c106c89a11-IGG+Launch+-+Launch+Day+(Resend)&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_03f2312857-c106c89a11-184049293&mc_cid=c106c89a11&mc_eid=b418e07c5d#/comments


----------



## Leeco (Jan 28, 2020)

FYLegend said:


> Another Indiegogo launch, Pearl Buds with solar charging. They use QCC5121. Not sure if there is a complete ambient sound mode as it says there's 2 ANC modes, one is "quiet mode" that lets some sounds in. I would have preferred a full ambient mode as well as a reduced one as Sony first did on the MDR-1000X.
> https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/pearl-ai-powered-earbuds-with-solar-charging?utm_source=Pre-Launch&utm_campaign=c106c89a11-IGG+Launch+-+Launch+Day+(Resend)&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_03f2312857-c106c89a11-184049293&mc_cid=c106c89a11&mc_eid=b418e07c5d#/comments


If you check the videos, the people’s testimonials look scripted/fake and why is in the “factory” video are they working on “AirPod clones”?
If their tech really works, the Chinese will copy it in no time and make it available for cheaper. Fake AirPods Pro were available on the 2nd or 3rd day after Apple officially released them.
My personal experience with Indiegogo/Kickstarter is: if you don’t lose your money, you will get a half-baked product.
Anything that was a hit was later always available on Amazon cheaper then “early bird” crap.
The only reason to back any of the “tech” projects is if you feel bored...


----------



## Bartig

d3myz said:


> They adjetives you use to describe the ssk and the Mpow don't mention cold/warm/dark. You called the T1x warm in it's comparison to the TWS6, but in my exp. the T1x is as cool as a cucumber compared to the MPOW M5.So I guess what i'm asking is in your definition of cold do you mean lacking low and mid bass? because while the T1x on bass eq has a good amount of low end, it's never what I would consider warm. Sorry if this is just semantics, just trying to understand. Would you also compare the Tevi pre beta firmware as cold as well?


Ah, I see. I think a warm tonality is sort of the standard. It’s what you see on most TWS, IEM’s, headphones and speakers. When a TWS sounds less warm than average, that’s when I describe it. I agree that the T1X sounds on the colder side - and the Edifier TWS6 sounds even colder. I do consider the pre-beta sound of the Tevi cold too, indeed. Less mid-bass/ lower-mids warmth, more emphasis on vocals. It’s still one of the hardest bits to put my finger on, though.



BigZ12 said:


> I have the Tronsmart Spunky Beat. I like them alot, except for the very sensitive touch controls.
> Is the Onyx Neo even better than the Spunky Beats?


No. It sounds too harsh and has less bass definition.



Leeco said:


> If you check the videos, the people’s testimonials look scripted/fake and why is in the “factory” video are they working on “AirPod clones”?
> If their tech really works, the Chinese will copy it in no time and make it available for cheaper. Fake AirPods Pro were available on the 2nd or 3rd day after Apple officially released them.
> My personal experience with Indiegogo/Kickstarter is: if you don’t lose your money, you will get a half-baked product.
> Anything that was a hit was later always available on Amazon cheaper then “early bird” crap.
> The only reason to back any of the “tech” projects is if you feel bored...


I stay away from Kickstarter/ crowdfunding audio projects. The ones I got sent over for reviews, were some of the worst earphones I received (Pamu Slide, a big sporty model of iKonex with horrible touch controls and a mode that combined good sounding earbuds with a terrible smart watch).


----------



## martiniCZ (Jan 28, 2020)

Bartig said:


> No. It sounds too harsh and has less bass definition.


My onyx definitely doesn't sound harash, trebles are pleasant and detailed. They are not for bassheaders, but with the right eartips, I can't complain about the lack of bass. They just like some lowrange BAs don't go too deep into the sub bass area.
Just out of curiosity, what version of spunky beat do you compare with onyx? Tronsmart releases a new version every month 
v1 - no volume control and blinks during playback
v2 - with volume control and blinks
v3 - with volume control and no blinks

edit: For example Massive Attack - Angel without any eq the bass line sounds amazing on my onyx neo. I don't really want hear more bass here. Maybe some QC issue on your pair of onyx, or some driver batch difference.


----------



## Caipirina

Bit of a side question, but what other sources than your phones are ppl using here for their TWS? 

I have a few DAPs that do BT, I'd say the Shanling M3s would be the top of the line (of my humble circus), but I end up not using it a lot because it is quite cumbersome to handle, starting with reconnecting a TWS (after i made the phone forget it) then to selecting music ... it is not very intuitive ... I tried the hiby link, but that was also more prone to hit/miss/fail/disconnect ... I also got a cheapo Benjie K1 which is ok, but BT connection is eeehhh at best ... so, I found myself browsing around and wanted to ask what other's here use. Stable connection, ease of use, maybe a working touchscreen (not only by name) ... came across the Tempotec V1 (and V1A, if only BT, I could save 20$ and take the non analog version) and the JWD-JWM 115 ...    

Please chime in with your suggestions.


----------



## Odioer

Caipirina said:


> Bit of a side question, but what other sources than your phones are ppl using here for their TWS?
> 
> I have a few DAPs that do BT, I'd say the Shanling M3s would be the top of the line (of my humble circus), but I end up not using it a lot because it is quite cumbersome to handle, starting with reconnecting a TWS (after i made the phone forget it) then to selecting music ... it is not very intuitive ... I tried the hiby link, but that was also more prone to hit/miss/fail/disconnect ... I also got a cheapo Benjie K1 which is ok, but BT connection is eeehhh at best ... so, I found myself browsing around and wanted to ask what other's here use. Stable connection, ease of use, maybe a working touchscreen (not only by name) ... came across the Tempotec V1 (and V1A, if only BT, I could save 20$ and take the non analog version) and the JWD-JWM 115 ...
> 
> Please chime in with your suggestions.


I just use my LG G7 for all audio needs


----------



## Pete7874

Caipirina said:


> Bit of a side question, but what other sources than your phones are ppl using here for their TWS?
> 
> I have a few DAPs that do BT, I'd say the Shanling M3s would be the top of the line (of my humble circus),


I use the Liberty 2 Pro with Shanling M3s almost exclusively.  I have no complaints with M3s.  If I have any complaints, it would be with L2P - they still sound too bright/shouty to me, even after turning the highs all the way down in custom EQ.


----------



## dimm0k (Jan 28, 2020)

for those that have used the wired Etymotics, are there any tips out there that would get me a similar seal as one could get with the Ety tips for my Shanling MTW100? even with the smallest tips after insertion it slides back out a few seconds later, not enough to fall off, but that seal is gone


----------



## TK33 (Jan 28, 2020)

Caipirina said:


> Bit of a side question, but what other sources than your phones are ppl using here for their TWS?
> 
> I have a few DAPs that do BT, I'd say the Shanling M3s would be the top of the line (of my humble circus), but I end up not using it a lot because it is quite cumbersome to handle, starting with reconnecting a TWS (after i made the phone forget it) then to selecting music ... it is not very intuitive ... I tried the hiby link, but that was also more prone to hit/miss/fail/disconnect ... I also got a cheapo Benjie K1 which is ok, but BT connection is eeehhh at best ... so, I found myself browsing around and wanted to ask what other's here use. Stable connection, ease of use, maybe a working touchscreen (not only by name) ... came across the Tempotec V1 (and V1A, if only BT, I could save 20$ and take the non analog version) and the JWD-JWM 115 ...
> 
> Please chime in with your suggestions.



Does a DAP provide any benefit when using bluetooth given the limited bandwidth of BT?  I would think for TWS, it should not really matter as it is more convenience than listening critically to hi-res music.

I just use my TWS and other bluetooth IEMs/receivers with my phone (UAPP/QoBuz and Amazon Music) or with my good old (and slowly dying) Surface Pro 4 at the office since out IT policy does not allow us to install applications on our desktops.  I also have my Senn MTW paired to my Fire TV.

EDITED: I realized after I posted that this may come across the wrong way.  I ask the first question mostly out of curiosity since I was considering upgrading an extra phone line I have to use for music streaming but am now wondering if I should be looking at DAPs instead.


----------



## Caipirina

TK33 said:


> Does a DAP provide any benefit when using bluetooth given the limited bandwidth of BT?  I would think for TWS, it should not really matter as it is more convenience than listening critically to hi-res music.


The idea is to have a more dedicated music device and lots more space to lug music around (I barely do streaming other than mixcloud)
This Tempotec comes in 2 flavors, with DAC (100$) and without DAC (80$) ... and I like the whole hiby link idea, maybe this has become more stable since I last played with it. 

I also really really like the idea that a phone call CANNOT interrupt my music


----------



## TK33

Caipirina said:


> The idea is to have a more dedicated music device and lots more space to lug music around (I barely do streaming other than mixcloud)
> This Tempotec comes in 2 flavors, with DAC (100$) and without DAC (80$) ... and I like the whole hiby link idea, maybe this has become more stable since I last played with it.
> 
> I also really really like the idea that a phone call CANNOT interrupt my music



Got it.  Thanks for the reply.  That makes sense.


----------



## Pete7874

TK33 said:


> Does a DAP provide any benefit when using bluetooth given the limited bandwidth of BT?


From a sound quality perspective, there should be no difference, assuming both devices (DAP and phone) support the same BT standards.  Main difference is from a convenience perspective and having a dedicated tool for the job.


----------



## voicemaster

Leeco said:


> If you check the videos, the people’s testimonials look scripted/fake and why is in the “factory” video are they working on “AirPod clones”?
> If their tech really works, the Chinese will copy it in no time and make it available for cheaper. Fake AirPods Pro were available on the 2nd or 3rd day after Apple officially released them.
> My personal experience with Indiegogo/Kickstarter is: if you don’t lose your money, you will get a half-baked product.
> Anything that was a hit was later always available on Amazon cheaper then “early bird” crap.
> The only reason to back any of the “tech” projects is if you feel bored...


The only audio product that I've ever backed on kickstarter was when 1964 audio partnered with ADEL technology back then. It took about more than a year to get my product and it is a good product just takes longer to get. They were already pretty established on custom IEM world unlike many startup company back then so it was more reassuring.


----------



## Luke Skywalker

Caipirina said:


> Bit of a side question, but what other sources than your phones are ppl using here for their TWS?
> 
> I have a few DAPs that do BT, I'd say the Shanling M3s would be the top of the line (of my humble circus), but I end up not using it a lot because it is quite cumbersome to handle, starting with reconnecting a TWS (after i made the phone forget it) then to selecting music ... it is not very intuitive ... I tried the hiby link, but that was also more prone to hit/miss/fail/disconnect ... I also got a cheapo Benjie K1 which is ok, but BT connection is eeehhh at best ... so, I found myself browsing around and wanted to ask what other's here use. Stable connection, ease of use, maybe a working touchscreen (not only by name) ... came across the Tempotec V1 (and V1A, if only BT, I could save 20$ and take the non analog version) and the JWD-JWM 115 ...
> 
> Please chime in with your suggestions.


I use a HiBy R6 Pro.  I love it... drives my Audeze LCD-2’s, has balanced port, and you can save Tidal and Qobuz offline


----------



## tma6

First full video review I’ve seen on the 1more ANC. Look solid but the battery is not great.


----------



## Caipirina

Luke Skywalker said:


> I use a HiBy R6 Pro.  I love it... drives my Audeze LCD-2’s, has balanced port, and you can save Tidal and Qobuz offline



For balanced out I am quite happy with my Shanling, for the few times I still do wired  
Actually, while looking at things and digging up stuff, I connected my Shanling to my 1more E1026BT (AptX!) and that's such a nice pairing! 

I feel like I really do not need another DAP  

darn greed/hoarding mania!


----------



## Caipirina (Jan 28, 2020)

tma6 said:


> First full video review I’ve seen on the 1more ANC. Look solid but the battery is not great.



 does he compare the ANC to the APP?
Kinda not in the mood for another 10min dose of Jim right now 

(ok, I ended up scrubbing through it ... solid ANC but not APP / XM3 level)


----------



## Luke Skywalker

Hmm... great point people are making on Codec’s. Although the HiBy supports LDAC, that’s not very important if you don’t have earbuds or headphones that have LDAC, like Sony’s

Although I do plug my HiBy into my Nvidia Shield in USB-DAC mode and transmit audio using LDAC to my EarStudio ES100 and plug my IEM’s into the ES100.  Kind of an obscure use-case though


----------



## gibletzor

Caipirina said:


> Bit of a side question, but what other sources than your phones are ppl using here for their TWS?
> 
> I have a few DAPs that do BT, I'd say the Shanling M3s would be the top of the line (of my humble circus), but I end up not using it a lot because it is quite cumbersome to handle, starting with reconnecting a TWS (after i made the phone forget it) then to selecting music ... it is not very intuitive ... I tried the hiby link, but that was also more prone to hit/miss/fail/disconnect ... I also got a cheapo Benjie K1 which is ok, but BT connection is eeehhh at best ... so, I found myself browsing around and wanted to ask what other's here use. Stable connection, ease of use, maybe a working touchscreen (not only by name) ... came across the Tempotec V1 (and V1A, if only BT, I could save 20$ and take the non analog version) and the JWD-JWM 115 ...
> 
> Please chime in with your suggestions.



I plug this into my laptop at work.
I have this connected to the sound card in my PC at home so I can use my AKG K702s wirelessly through my Fiio BTR3 or my Liberty Pro 2s (whatever suits my fancy at the time).
Everything else is through my Galaxy S9+.


----------



## Robius

These looks good with a long nozzle and kind of different form factor. Graphics are chinese tho so I don't really get the specs.

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32960997975.html


----------



## turbobb

Robius said:


> These looks good with a long nozzle and kind of different form factor. Graphics are chinese tho so I don't really get the specs.
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32960997975.html



I got the dual driver (BA/DD) version of those from Amazon (now only $19.99). They're not bad but very mid-forward. Was planning on providing a consolidated update of all the budget ones I've been trying this past month. More to come...


----------



## Bartig

martiniCZ said:


> My onyx definitely doesn't sound harash, trebles are pleasant and detailed. They are not for bassheaders, but with the right eartips, I can't complain about the lack of bass. They just like some lowrange BAs don't go too deep into the sub bass area.
> Just out of curiosity, what version of spunky beat do you compare with onyx? Tronsmart releases a new version every month
> v1 - no volume control and blinks during playback
> v2 - with volume control and blinks
> ...


I have all three versions of the Spunky Beat and one Onyx Neo. I see people that also have both, share similar impressions.


----------



## Bartig

Caipirina said:


> does he compare the ANC to the APP?
> Kinda not in the mood for another 10min dose of Jim right now
> 
> (ok, I ended up scrubbing through it ... solid ANC but not APP / XM3 level)


If the ANC isn’t as good as the Apple AirPods Pro, can it still be entitled good?


----------



## howdy

Caipirina said:


> Bit of a side question, but what other sources than your phones are ppl using here for their TWS?
> 
> I have a few DAPs that do BT, I'd say the Shanling M3s would be the top of the line (of my humble circus), but I end up not using it a lot because it is quite cumbersome to handle, starting with reconnecting a TWS (after i made the phone forget it) then to selecting music ... it is not very intuitive ... I tried the hiby link, but that was also more prone to hit/miss/fail/disconnect ... I also got a cheapo Benjie K1 which is ok, but BT connection is eeehhh at best ... so, I found myself browsing around and wanted to ask what other's here use. Stable connection, ease of use, maybe a working touchscreen (not only by name) ... came across the Tempotec V1 (and V1A, if only BT, I could save 20$ and take the non analog version) and the JWD-JWM 115 ...
> 
> Please chime in with your suggestions.


I mainly use my phone but I have a 128gb iPod touch filled (almost) with Tidal for offline listening. I use the iPod at the gym a lot or if my phone is low.


----------



## SoundChoice

Pete7874 said:


> From a sound quality perspective, there should be no difference, assuming both devices (DAP and phone) support the same BT standards.  Main difference is from a convenience perspective and having a dedicated tool for the job.



Stupid question, but searching this thread for "developer options settings" provided no help: is there consensus about which settings should be changed from the default on a Samsung phone to increase Bluetooth quality without dropouts at 10 feet?


----------



## Luke Skywalker

Apologies if this is off-topic but I wanted to mention that I’m seeing a significant increase in “range” with the N6 Pro’s to my iPhone 7, compared with Jabra 65t.

 There’s a spot in my house where I get this annoying popping sound with the Jabra’s that I plan to test


----------



## d3myz (Jan 28, 2020)

Well, after a roughly 30 hours of breaking in my Nualr N6's the driver flex is bad. i'm listening to them now while chewing gum and it's border line unbearable. UGH..... It's not an issue if I don't use tighter type silicone buds like the stock tips and my Spiral Dots, but with my Symbio's it flexes and pops every time I move my jaw.


----------



## Pete7874 (Jan 28, 2020)

SoundChoice said:


> Stupid question, but searching this thread for "developer options settings" provided no help: is there consensus about which settings should be changed from the default on a Samsung phone to increase Bluetooth quality without dropouts at 10 feet?


You may be alluding to two conflicting sets of requirements here, I'm afraid.  Higher sound quality requires more bandwidth, which means it'll be more susceptible to interference/dropouts at the same distance as a lower bandwidth/lower sound quality connection.

This page has some info on quality of various BT codecs and their connection quality / range, but I'm not sure that there is a clear winner, or "consensus":
https://www.soundguys.com/ldac-ultimate-bluetooth-guide-20026/


It looks like AAC may be a good compromise between sound quality and connection quality; however, I've read that AAC implementation on Android devices isn't as good as on iOS, so that may not help you with respect to your Samsung phone.
If you have access to "Developer Options," search for "Bluetooth Audio Codec" option to see what's available to you.  Granted, just because your phone may support it does not mean your TWS does, too.


----------



## d3myz

Pete7874 said:


> You may be alluding to two conflicting sets of requirements here, I'm afraid.  Higher sound quality requires more bandwidth, which means it'll be more susceptible to interference/dropouts at the same distance as a lower bandwidth/lower sound quality connection.
> 
> This page has some info on quality of various BT codecs and their connection quality / range, but I'm not sure that there is a clear winner, or "consensus":
> https://www.soundguys.com/ldac-ultimate-bluetooth-guide-20026/
> ...


Here's some real world bro science. On my mac I can adjust the AAC bit rate and there is a sweet spot about 70% up. Anything more and I have to be right next to it otherwise I start to get dropouts, almost no matter what TWS i'm using. I have noticed some are better than others and the Sony's, Nuarls and APPs seem to have less issues than some of the other devices I have. I also use an external BT Trackpad II and that seems to hurt the reception depending on where I have it placed and turned on. Range is worse with AptX.


----------



## Luke Skywalker

d3myz said:


> Well, after a roughly 30 hours of breaking in my Nualr N6's the driver flex is bad. i'm listening to them now while chewing gum and it's border line unbearable. UGH..... It's not an issue if I don't use tighter type silicone buds like the stock tips and my Spiral Dots, but with my Symbio's it flexes and pops every time I move my jaw.


Man that sounds awful.  

I’m using Acoustune AET 08 tips on mine and the fit is amazing... I found out about them from a guy in the forum who recommended them for my JH Lola’s. 

Stock tips and even the Spinfits pop out when I chew food, move my head, walk around.  Not sure if they’d help for driver flex though


----------



## d3myz (Jan 28, 2020)

Luke Skywalker said:


> Man that sounds awful.
> 
> I’m using Acoustune AET 08 tips on mine and the fit is amazing... I found out about them from a guy in the forum who recommended them for my JH Lola’s.
> 
> Stock tips and even the Spinfits pop out when I chew food, move my head, walk around.  Not sure if they’d help for driver flex though


Those look like the exact tips that come with the MPOW M5/T5 sans the memory foam. Any idea what the difference in the AET 08 and 08a is?


----------



## SoundChoice

Pete7874 said:


> You may be alluding to two conflicting sets of requirements here, I'm afraid.  Higher sound quality requires more bandwidth, which means it'll be more susceptible to interference/dropouts at the same distance as a lower bandwidth/lower sound quality connection.
> 
> This page has some info on quality of various BT codecs and their connection quality / range, but I'm not sure that there is a clear winner, or "consensus":
> https://www.soundguys.com/ldac-ultimate-bluetooth-guide-20026/
> ...



Thanks for your reply. Options for Bluetooth Audio Codec are SBC, AAC, aptX, LDAC, scalable, all and default. SBC was default and is selected. On Trigger Bluetooth Audio LDAC Codec selection: Playback quality, I have Optimized for Audio Quality (990kbps); Balanced (660kbps); Optimized for Connection Quality (330kbps) and Best Effort (Adaptive Bit Rate), with the latter being the selected default.


----------



## d3myz (Jan 28, 2020)

Just got my Echo Buds! Man, i'm excited. impressions to come...

first impressions. the fit is awesome, passive noise isolation excellent! excellent at +5 it's almost as good as the APPs. ANC it's really good, not as good as the APPs, but better than the Sony's. They keep failing the ear tip test. hmm.. more to follow.

Good thumpy bass, crisp highs but overall pretty heavy V shape sound even when I bump the eq on the mids. they are still thin, but overall they are really enjoyable to listen to, still way better in SQ than the APPs. I've got to say, overall i'm SUPER impressed. I love the alexa app integration. I'm heavily invested in the Alexa ecosystem, so i'm familiar with it and the integration is beautiful. I'm going to spend some more time with them and do some burn in, but wow. For $90 these are keepers.


----------



## rhsauer

d3myz said:


> Just got my Echo Buds! Man, i'm excited. impressions to come...
> 
> first impressions. the fit is awesome, passive noise isolation excellent! excellent at +5 it's almost as good as the APPs. ANC it's really good, not as good as the APPs, but better than the Sony's. They keep failing the ear tip test. hmm.. more to follow.
> 
> Good thumpy bass, crisp highs but overall pretty heavy V shape sound even when I bump the eq on the mids. they are still thin, but overall they are really enjoyable to listen to, still way better in SQ than the APPs. I've got to say, overall i'm SUPER impressed. I love the alexa app integration. I'm heavily invested in the Alexa ecosystem, so i'm familiar with it and the integration is beautiful. I'm going to spend some more time with them and do some burn in, but wow. For $90 these are keepers.



Glad you like the Echo Buds — so do I, for many of the same reasons.  They’re a steal at $90.  They seem much more durable than my AirPod Pros, which keep failing the ear tip test after about a week of use.  (I’ve replaced the APPs several times due to the fit test issue, and my current pair are now failing the tip test — so there seems to be a design flaw.  All pairs passed the tip test for the first week or so.)  

Also, the new firmware update for the Echo Buds adds volume controls.  They’re great for phone calls too.  I’m also enjoying the Libratone Track Air+.  There are going to be lots of terrific options for great TWS earphones going forward.  

And I’m curious to see what happens when the new “LE Audio” standard is implemented.  Unfortunately, it will make all of our current equipment obsolete — but it should allow better audio quality and much longer battery life.


----------



## d3myz (Jan 28, 2020)

rhsauer said:


> Glad you like the Echo Buds — so do I, for many of the same reasons.  They’re a steal at $90.  They seem much more durable than my AirPod Pros, which keep failing the ear tip test after about a week of use.  (I’ve replaced the APPs several times due to the fit test issue, and my current pair are now failing the tip test — so there seems to be a design flaw.  All pairs passed the tip test for the first week or so.)
> 
> Also, the new firmware update for the Echo Buds adds volume controls.  They’re great for phone calls too.  I’m also enjoying the Libratone Track Air+.  There are going to be lots of terrific options for great TWS earphones going forward.
> 
> And I’m curious to see what happens when the new “LE Audio” standard is implemented.  Unfortunately, it will make all of our current equipment obsolete — but it should allow better audio quality and much longer battery life.


I'll have to grab that firmware. I haven't had any issues with my current APPs and I do like the transparency mode better, but I also feel like they are much better made than the APPs.


----------



## webvan

d3myz said:


> Just got my Echo Buds! Man, i'm excited. impressions to come...
> 
> first impressions. the fit is awesome, passive noise isolation excellent! excellent at +5 it's almost as good as the APPs. ANC it's really good, not as good as the APPs, but better than the Sony's. They keep failing the ear tip test. hmm.. more to follow.
> 
> Good thumpy bass, crisp highs but overall pretty heavy V shape sound even when I bump the eq on the mids. they are still thin, but overall they are really enjoyable to listen to, still way better in SQ than the APPs. I've got to say, overall i'm SUPER impressed. I love the alexa app integration. I'm heavily invested in the Alexa ecosystem, so i'm familiar with it and the integration is beautiful. I'm going to spend some more time with them and do some burn in, but wow. For $90 these are keepers.



Well I hate  to be the one who told you so but I'm glad others are getting to enjoy this excellent performer ! You're happy with the passive isolation with a "failed ear test", wait till you improve the fit (the L stock tips work best for me with a slight "rotation" towards the front after being put into place). As for the ANR (why do you mention +5, it's either on/off for me, do you mean ambient ?) it really needs to be evaluated in light of the overall isolation. The APPs (or LTA+) have little passive isolation to speak of so their ANC has/will be impressive when turned on.

I just wish they added a toggling option to turn ANR/Ambient OFF so that you can ride your bike with them without pullig out the app.

As a side note mine have not gotten the latest FW update yet,


----------



## d3myz

webvan said:


> Well I hate  to be the one who told you so but I'm glad others are getting to enjoy this excellent performer ! You're happy with the passive isolation with a "failed ear test", wait till you improve the fit (the L stock tips work best for me with a slight "rotation" towards the front after being put into place). As for the ANR (why do you mention +5, it's either on/off for me, do you mean ambient ?) it really needs to be evaluated in light of the overall isolation. The APPs (or LTA+) have little passive isolation to speak of so their ANC has/will be impressive when turned on.
> 
> I just wish they added a toggling option to turn ANR/Ambient OFF so that you can ride your bike with them without pullig out the app.
> 
> As a side note mine have not gotten the latest FW update yet,



Good point. I use the off on my Apps all the time. I've been trying to figure out how to update them, but it says the auto update while they are charging. What? and yes i meant the ambient/passthrough. It's much more bassy than the Apps and the XM3's but it's still better than the XM3. i'm going to do some more ANC and passive isolation tests.


----------



## webvan

It turns out I had the latest 306714878 version (update process is completely transparent) but couldn't see the Volume settings because I didn't have the latest version of the app. I suppose it's a nice addition but with two controls per ear I'm not sure what I could sacrifice. Adding a triple tap would have been thoughtful !


----------



## erockg

webvan said:


> It turns out I had the latest 306714878 version (update process is completely transparent) but couldn't see the Volume settings because I didn't have the latest version of the app. I suppose it's a nice addition but with two controls per ear I'm not sure what I could sacrifice. Adding a triple tap would have been thoughtful !


Took a while to update mine.  Seems I had to update to two different firmwares.  One has to happen before you get to the latest.  Odd.  That said, now I have volume controls.  Love it.  My Klipsch T5's are getting returned.


----------



## d3myz

erockg said:


> Took a while to update mine.  Seems I had to update to two different firmwares.  One has to happen before you get to the latest.  Odd.  That said, now I have volume controls.  Love it.  My Klipsch T5's are getting returned.


Weird, i didn't have the most recent version of the Alexa app either. I thought I had iOS set to auto update my apps. hmm..


----------



## tma6

Looks like House of Marley and SOL Republic ANC true wireless are popping up on Amazon


----------



## rhsauer

erockg said:


> Took a while to update mine.  Seems I had to update to two different firmwares.  One has to happen before you get to the latest.  Odd.  That said, now I have volume controls.  Love it.  My Klipsch T5's are getting returned.


FWIW, I have set the taps to (1) press and hold on left is ANR/Passthrough + Pause, (2) press and hold on right is Next Song, (3) double tap on left is Volume Down, and (4) double tap on right is Volume Up.  That’s what works for me. I have basically the same settings on the LTA+, except it’s double taps and triple taps — and I replaced Next Song with Activate Siri (since there’s no voice activated assistant as with the Echo Buds).


----------



## vaaccess

Francesco Montanari said:


> You have to download it from here
> 
> http://www.mifo.hk/appdwon/
> 
> ...



Before I take this on...is there a way to know if mine need the update, and can you share what the update will do for me?

thanks!!!!


----------



## Sam L (Jan 28, 2020)

d3myz said:


> Just got my Echo Buds! Man, i'm excited. impressions to come...
> 
> first impressions. the fit is awesome, passive noise isolation excellent! excellent at +5 it's almost as good as the APPs. ANC it's really good, not as good as the APPs, but better than the Sony's. They keep failing the ear tip test. hmm.. more to follow.
> 
> Good thumpy bass, crisp highs but overall pretty heavy V shape sound even when I bump the eq on the mids. they are still thin, but overall they are really enjoyable to listen to, still way better in SQ than the APPs. I've got to say, overall i'm SUPER impressed. I love the alexa app integration. I'm heavily invested in the Alexa ecosystem, so i'm familiar with it and the integration is beautiful. I'm going to spend some more time with them and do some burn in, but wow. For $90 these are keepers.



Yep, they are a great buy at $90. Easy to recommend at that price.

They put out a ridiculous amount of bass for dual BA's -- like dynamic driver bass levels. Here are the hybrid IEMs in my current rotation:
- RHA ma750 (Dynamic Driver only)
- fidue a83
- 1more triples
- 1more quads
- trinity delta (og version)
- trinity master (remake and og version)
- sony A3
- westone um30 (and um20) (BA drivers only)

The echo buds at the default eq setting (pre mid january firmware) in the app puts out more bass than all of these BA and hybrid BA IEMs by a mile.

While the echo buds highs are decently crisp, they fall way short of the signature BA treble clarity. The mids are the weakest part of the Echo Buds but I'm still struggling to describe what's lacking (i have an ear infection at the moment, so haven't been able to give the new firmware a good listen). I wouldn't necessarily describe the Echo bud's mids as recessed, though.

The new firmware update tames the low end a bit but I still bump the low eq down a couple notches in the app.

I think the Echo Buds are the best TWS earphones under a $100.

cc: @turbobb


----------



## Sam L

bandario said:


> Just spent a bit of time mucking around with ViPer4Android and I have to say that I remain ridiculously impressed with the Syllable S101 earbuds.
> 
> I'm a big fan of Apt-x and with a bit of EQ, Viper DDC, Viper Bass....these things are incredible. I think a big part of this is that the tips fit my ear canals near perfectly. It sounds like the music is coming from inside my brain.
> 
> APT-X and dual-drivers ftw.



I absolutely love viper4android! I always have a rooted android phone in rotation to take advantage of viper4android. It's what saves the Apple Airpods Pros for me.


----------



## RobinFood

Wait, do the echo buds have ambiant mode? I saw it listed as a con on one of those best of websites and decided to hold off getting it.


----------



## Timastyle

RobinFood said:


> Wait, do the echo buds have ambiant mode? I saw it listed as a con on one of those best of websites and decided to hold off getting it.



They do have ambient mode and from my limited experience with others (Galaxy buds), the ambient is great on the Echo. 

My issue with them is sound quality compared to my SSK and the fact that it keeps connecting to my phone with the buds in the case. Drives me crazy. I have SF360 tips in and not getting the bass others are talking about. Also, the volume is pretty low for me. Not sure what I'm doing wrong.


----------



## gibletzor

Robius said:


> These looks good with a long nozzle and kind of different form factor. Graphics are chinese tho so I don't really get the specs.
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32960997975.html


I tried a version of these from Amazon and sent them back.  They had a really bad hiss in the background.  Otherwise the sound was good.  I remember not liking the controls much though.


----------



## d3myz

rhsauer said:


> FWIW, I have set the taps to (1) press and hold on left is ANR/Passthrough + Pause, (2) press and hold on right is Next Song, (3) double tap on left is Volume Down, and (4) double tap on right is Volume Up.  That’s what works for me. I have basically the same settings on the LTA+, except it’s double taps and triple taps — and I replaced Next Song with Activate Siri (since there’s no voice activated assistant as with the Echo Buds).


Well, I got mine updated to the latest firmware and now press and hold functionality doesn’t work at all. Earlier today the left earbud started going haywire on me.  Man, I’m pissed. I really like these, why can’t they just work correctly!?


----------



## webvan

RobinFood said:


> Wait, do the echo buds have ambiant mode? I saw it listed as a con on one of those best of websites and decided to hold off getting it.



Well I've written several times before here that ambient on the echo Buds is second to none, well maybe it's a tad behind the APPs, which is saying a lot!

@rhsauer - I thought of going for a similar button config but that means you can't get ANR+Paused music, which I find useful. Volume +/- is easier to do with the phone's buttons.


----------



## Taiyo85

Hello all, 

I've been lurking on this thread for some time now. Since I'm a little confused and you seem like experts in the topic I would like to ask what are good tws earbuds about or below 100 euros?

My favourite headphones are the Audiotechnica m40x and I have the QCY T1S, but I'm looking for something better. I've read good things about the Melomania 1 and others. I love a flat sound with a little bass. I would use them on my walks and runs with my Fiio M6, but also with my nintendo switch (I have an adapter). So if they have Aptx for a better latency, that would be great. Any input would be exceptional!

Thank you very much!


----------



## APC01

Hi
I have thought to spend a little more and buy something better than spunky beats.

I've seen these

 FIIL T1X TWS True Wireless Earbuds In-ear Bluetooth Earbuds - Black China

https://www.gearbest.com/bluetooth-headphones/pp_3009286923162898.html?wid=2000001

I have read very well of them. Is it worth the extra expense? Is there any other better model at this approximate price?

Or better I hope the echo buds of amazon arrive in europe?

thanks


----------



## gourab1995 (Jan 30, 2020)

Went tip swapping with the qcy t5, put on some spinfits cp145 in the line of my small tip experiment. The sound change was so incredible, i stopped looking for tips in my tip box. I was listening to the music. The last time something magical like this happened with the MH755's and the kb100's.


 

Went on to listen for hours. Wireless iems sounding better than wired ones at this price... It's crazy! If only i hadn't found out the downside after they were drained. I never drain them out listening to them, i mostly use it for gaming. Then keep it back in the case. They stay charged.

*But this time* i had to charge. When i go to put them back in the case i realize.... they don't fit in the case anymore because the spinfits are so long.

 

So tempted the get the cp360 and see if that same sound is there without this drawback.


----------



## DynamicEars (Jan 29, 2020)

gourab1995 said:


> Went tip swapping with the qcy t5, put on some spinfits cp145 in the line of my small tip experiment. The sound change was so incredible, i stopped looking for tips in my tip box. I was listening to the music. The last time something magical like this happened with the MH755's and the kb100's.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




I have both CP145 and CP360, im using L size for both, they sounded pretty similar with airy and bright, same characteristic at least. and CP360 height is shorter than CP145. oh wait, i can try the cp360 on my T5 later and tell you. Too bad even the CP360 cant fit on Haylou GT1 plus (their case is smaller than T5) just  maybe 2mm more they can fit, too bad


Edit : add pics

Oh here they are, cp360 fit well into t5 case, im using L size so any size below that should be fine.
and they can be closed properly


----------



## gourab1995 (Jan 29, 2020)

DynamicEars said:


> I have both CP145 and CP360, im using L size for both, they sounded pretty similar with airy and bright, same characteristic at least. and CP360 height is shorter than CP145. oh wait, i can try the cp360 on my T5 later and tell you. Too bad even the CP360 cant fit on Haylou GT1 plus (their case is smaller than T5) just  maybe 2mm more they can fit, too bad
> 
> 
> Edit : add pics
> ...



Wow! Perfect. I'll be getting the large and medium cp360 set. Penon is out of stock. They sell single pairs for a slightly lower price. Guess I'll be spending a little more than expected.  Thanks a lot for the heads up!

Edit: they rechecked and said they do have it in stock, it was destiny after all!


----------



## jasonb (Jan 29, 2020)

So I've had the Galaxy Buds since last summer, and lately I've been feeling like they lack clarity and detail. I've been using the "clear" setting but I feel that it's not just a matter of frequency response. I don't know if it's the AAC Bluetooth codec or the drivers just aren't capable of enough clarity and detail for me, but I just don't enjoy them anymore. The treble also just sounds a bit smeared and artificial.

I have an ES100 that sounds great with my AKG Q701 and AKG K371, so I've ordered a Brainwavz B200 which are supposed to not be bass heavy, and are supposed to have tons of clarity and detail. If I like how these sound or can be EQ'ed with the ES100 to my liking then I'll also order a very short MMCX cable and use the B200 with my ES100 and clip it to my shirt. This seems less convenient than just putting a wireless bud in each ear, but I need better sound. The Galaxy Buds just aren't doing it for me anymore. They've always been a compromise, but I'm just not enjoying them anymore.

I also have the first gen OnePlus Bullets Wireless and I feel they are too bassy heavy and lack clarity and detail as well.

I'm listening to a Hifiman/massdrop RE-00 right now with the ES100, and I could almost deal with this except the cable is way to long for the ES100 to be convenient, and the RE-00 still honestly don't sound all that great, but still better and more clear than the Galaxy Buds. I also have an RE-Zero which sound better, but the cable is still to long to be convenient for the ES100 to be clipped to a shirt.


----------



## d3myz

webvan said:


> Well I've written several times before here that ambient on the echo Buds is second to none, well maybe it's a tad behind the APPs, which is saying a lot!
> 
> @rhsauer - I thought of going for a similar button config but that means you can't get ANR+Paused music, which I find useful. Volume +/- is easier to do with the phone's buttons.



My press and hold is almost useless on the Echo Buds. I have to press really hard to get it to work and the buds have just stopped working 3 times in less than 24 hours. I removed the stock tips and finally found some that work and fit in the case. With some many things done right on these echo buds, they really have some basic functionality issues. the Pass through mode isn't near as natural sounding as the APPs, it's much more bassy, there's a touch more delay as well, but it picks up a lot of sound, it's kind of like a hearing aid and it's def. better than the xm3's, but it still doesn't feel as good to use as the APPs. last thing is the wind noise. Wow, if I even walk to fast i get a massive amount of wind noise in pass through mode and the amazon support for these is pretty lame. Anyways, all in all, this is a great beta product, drivers sound great, but needs better mid-range. The bass and highs sound fabulous, passive and active noise reduction works very close to as well as the APPs, but like it's been mentioned it's largely due to the passive noise reduction which I personally don't like as well. I really hope the next version of these buds is not buggy, because I really like them, but to be honest this is a beta product, it doesn't consistently work. I'm going to use them this week and see how they work. I still find myself wanted to use the APPs for my daily driver, because the case is so small, they are lightweight and the siri integration with my iphone. Oh, one more thought. with Alexa I can turn on and off Passthrough, but I can't figure out how to turn on/off ANR, any thoughts?


----------



## d3myz

So.. How's the passthrough/ambient/transparency mode on the 1more ANC? they are 20% off right now with code JIM or GAMESKY. I may need to buy these and try them out, to make me feel better about my Beta Echo Buds.


----------



## clerkpalmer

d3myz said:


> So.. How's the passthrough/ambient/transparency mode on the 1more ANC? they are 20% off right now with code JIM or GAMESKY. I may need to buy these and try them out, to make me feel better about my Beta Echo Buds.



20% off is a nice deal.  The US units just shipped yesterday - not many people have these yet.  Is the code only on 1more's website or is it on amazon?  I got $20 off but 20% would have been nicer.


----------



## d3myz

clerkpalmer said:


> 20% off is a nice deal.  The US units just shipped yesterday - not many people have these yet.  Is the code only on 1more's website or is it on amazon?  I got $20 off but 20% would have been nicer.


It's just for the 1more site.


----------



## clerkpalmer

d3myz said:


> It's just for the 1more site.



Thanks - preorders ship with a charging mat I think so it's probably a push.  I would definitely look at them for 20% off.  I am optimistic the SQ will beat the APP even if the ANC does not although my APP are suffering from the reduced ANC from the software fix.


----------



## webvan (Jan 29, 2020)

d3myz said:


> My press and hold is almost useless on the Echo Buds. I have to press really hard to get it to work and the buds have just stopped working 3 times in less than 24 hours. I removed the stock tips and finally found some that work and fit in the case. With some many things done right on these echo buds, they really have some basic functionality issues. the Pass through mode isn't near as natural sounding as the APPs, it's much more bassy, there's a touch more delay as well, but it picks up a lot of sound, it's kind of like a hearing aid and it's def. better than the xm3's, but it still doesn't feel as good to use as the APPs. last thing is the wind noise. Wow, if I even walk to fast i get a massive amount of wind noise in pass through mode and the amazon support for these is pretty lame. Anyways, all in all, this is a great beta product, drivers sound great, but needs better mid-range. The bass and highs sound fabulous, passive and active noise reduction works very close to as well as the APPs, but like it's been mentioned it's largely due to the passive noise reduction which I personally don't like as well. I really hope the next version of these buds is not buggy, because I really like them, but to be honest this is a beta product, it doesn't consistently work. I'm going to use them this week and see how they work. I still find myself wanted to use the APPs for my daily driver, because the case is so small, they are lightweight and the siri integration with my iphone. Oh, one more thought. with Alexa I can turn on and off Passthrough, but I can't figure out how to turn on/off ANR, any thoughts?



Nice find for Passthrough off with Alexa, let's see if we can find a trick for ANR !
EDIT - found it, just say "turn noise reduction off" !

I'm not sure I would call them a "beta produt" simply because you are having issues with the button presses  I've never had any myself (unlike with the XM3s or LTA+ that sometimes stopped working for no apparent reason) but @gibletzor has with two seperate models and he though it might have to do something with his skin. Mids could be better ? Sure but the SQ is still way better as in "natural" than the APPs 
I'm not sure why you don't like the "passive" component of the isolation ? It's really the only way to kill some of the voices and non-recurrent noise that ANC can't do anything against. IMHO the overall isolation provided by the Echo Buds is as good as it gets (TWS or Headset combined) and much better than the APPs (unless you're just flying with no one talking around you). As for Ambient yes it's not as "natural" as the APPs but just as usable in my experience. Wind noise ? All ANC devices will have wind noise when the mics are on (ANC or Ambient activated), it comes with the microphones, there's really nothing you can do about that ! Like I said it's a pity you cannot turn off ANR without pulling out the app, it really needs to make it's way to the ANR/Ambient toggle at some point.


----------



## thimantha (Jan 29, 2020)

I'm very sceptical of crowdfunding campaigns and don't see myself backing any in the foreseeable future, but man these look really nice. A fresh design, too.

https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/song-x-tws-earbuds-sleek-design-great-sound


----------



## voicemaster

clerkpalmer said:


> 20% off is a nice deal.  The US units just shipped yesterday - not many people have these yet.  Is the code only on 1more's website or is it on amazon?  I got $20 off but 20% would have been nicer.


Just ordered one too. Hope the shipping not taking too long as I will be going on vacation on feb 19.


----------



## SaveTheMantaRays

After time, I agree I notice more driver flex with Nuarl N6.  Sometimes it is bad.  Sometimes unnoticeable. Foam tips definitely soften the problem.
But because of the worsening of the flex, I am starting to think much definitely about them.  Plus not quite as comfy as the lighter models.

After time, I think the T1X is a bit closer to N6, than originally thought.  But if you use them while exercising, I do notice a "fluttering" as someone here described.
If you use T1X while not exercising it is pretty great for the $40.  Still think it has best connection overall. Some driver flex, but seems to mellow with time (I believe).
Types of music like pop, hip-hop and edm, select BASS mode, and these things do shine.  But still better sounding with less movement.

I broke down and ordered the N6PRO to compare with T1X, Mpow t5, Anbes 359, & N6, while I still have them all.

Have read they basically don't have any driver flex.  I guess bc they are a completely different driver setup from the regular N6.

I am still amazed by how much different tips can change the sounds in all TWS.

More to come.


----------



## d3myz (Jan 29, 2020)

webvan said:


> Nice find for Passthrough off with Alexa, let's see if we can find a trick for ANR !
> EDIT - found it, just say "turn noise reduction off" !
> 
> I'm not sure I would call them a "beta produt" simply because you are having issues with the button presses  I've never had any myself (unlike with the XM3s or LTA+ that sometimes stopped working for no apparent reason) but @gibletzor has with two seperate models and he though it might have to do something with his skin. Mids could be better ? Sure but the SQ is still way better as in "natural" than the APPs
> I'm not sure why you don't like the "passive" component of the isolation ? It's really the only way to kill some of the voices and non-recurrent noise that ANC can't do anything against. IMHO the overall isolation provided by the Echo Buds is as good as it gets (TWS or Headset combined) and much better than the APPs (unless you're just flying with no one talking around you). As for Ambient yes it's not as "natural" as the APPs but just as usable in my experience. Wind noise ? All ANC devices will have wind noise when the mics are on (ANC or Ambient activated), it comes with the microphones, there's really nothing you can do about that ! Like I said it's a pity you cannot turn off ANR without pulling out the app, it really needs to make it's way to the ANR/Ambient toggle at some point.


To give you an example, when I grab my left bud to take it out. EVERYTIME the ANR/PASSTHROUGH switches. I didn't double click it and long Press on works if I attack the sensor and hold it. Another thing I tested was the Proximity sensor, it's ridiculous. When i'm changing eartips it's start stop, start, stop etc. It should only go on/off when something is a couple mm's away from it, yet this thing senses my fingers when i'm about an inch or more away and there's no way in the app to disable it, like the Sony's. Can't disable voice prompts either.

 If you read the amazon reviews, hundreds of people have been experiencing these same issues. and I wasn't having these issues before the update, but maybe I hadn't been using them long enough. If i want to use better tips, the case won't close and the won't charge The buds don't power off unless they are in the case with the lid closed.

I hate to say it, but I personally don't think the ANR is as good as the APPs. I tested both last night in my room after turning my huge, loud humidifier on and the APP does a better job especially considering I have to have the echo bud deep in my canal to get good passive noise isolation. I can't wear them longer than an hour or so without them hurting. With the APPs and granted i'm on the previous firmware with good ANC, I can't even tell i'm wearing them half the time and I rarely experience the wind noise. the Pass through on the EB's picks up loud sounds far away and amplifies them, especially low fan noises, it's actually pretty crazy. This would make them great if you want to really hear a fart from across the room. LOL. i'm kidding, but seriously They do compete with the APPs for passthrough, but they have a different feel to them, if I cup my ears behind my head I can actually hear people talking much better. My theory is due to mic placement. These companies need to put the mics on the more forward part of the bud. 

Last thought, because the EB's rely on passive noise reduction, the pass through has more of that plugged ear feel and sound, that's what I meant by natural. there is also a slight delay. So for $90 they are awesome in so many regards, but they need some revisions and I think if they improve in Gen. 2 they could be some of the best ANC buds around.


----------



## d3myz (Jan 29, 2020)

@webvan Thanks for the tip on turning on/off ANR!! So I found if you want off mode, you just turn ANR Off. So you can toggle between all 3 modes, but it's either PassThrough on/off or ANR on/off.  Another huge perk I didn't mention is that I can control my whole house with these buds in! My lights, Thermostat, Echo's Sonos' TV's, no matter where i'm at. That is AWESOME!


----------



## erockg

d3myz said:


> To give you an example, when I grab my left bud to take it out. EVERYTIME the ANR/PASSTHROUGH switches. I didn't double click it and long Press on works if I attack the sensor and hold it. Another thing I tested was the Proximity sensor, it's ridiculous. When i'm changing eartips it's start stop, start, stop etc. It should only go on/off when something is a couple mm's away from it, yet this thing senses my fingers when i'm about an inch or more away and there's no way in the app to disable it, like the Sony's. Can't disable voice prompts either.
> 
> If you read the amazon reviews, hundreds of people have been experiencing these same issues. and I wasn't having these issues before the update, but maybe I hadn't been using them long enough. If i want to use better tips, the case won't close and the won't charge The buds don't power off unless they are in the case with the lid closed.
> 
> ...


I don't have any of these issues with mine.  Yet.  That said, I sorta touch and slide my finger on the bud for volume control.  Seems to work for me.  Passthrough is sensitive, but here at the office I love it.  I can always hear what folks are saying.  Always had issues with the Sony's and B&O's.


----------



## d3myz

So, off topic, These are BT Cans, but out of the 4 ANC devices I have, These are the best I have. I even tried them up againt the Sony HF-1000XM3 and ANC wise they are very similar,  but they were $60, 30 hour battery life, Great for phone calls, Sound quality is very good, wouldn't say exceptional but I just got a second pair today and am Just blown away at how nice they are for the $$. I also have a black pair, I just got done burning them in for a week, but they don't sound quite as good as the Brown and Silver. Anyways, wanted to share, @hifi80sman, you need to snag these and compare them to your Sony's and see if my comparison of the ANC is accurate.


----------



## erockg

d3myz said:


> @webvan Thanks for the tip on turning on/off ANR!! So I found if you want off mode, you just turn ANR Off. So you can toggle between all 3 modes, but it's either PassThrough on/off or ANR on/off.  Another huge perk I didn't mention is that I can control my whole house with these buds in! My lights, Thermostat, Echo's Sonos' TV's, no matter where i'm at. That is AWESOME!


I tell my Roomba to vacuum while I'm walking down the street.  So sad


----------



## d3myz

erockg said:


> I don't have any of these issues with mine.  Yet.  That said, I sorta touch and slide my finger on the bud for volume control.  Seems to work for me.  Passthrough is sensitive, but here at the office I love it.  I can always hear what folks are saying.  Always had issues with the Sony's and B&O's.


Yea it's really weird, and why no single tap? It's very possible I have a bad pair, i'm sure a large quantity of them were not QC'd properly. I'll swap them out and see.


----------



## d3myz

erockg said:


> I tell my Roomba to vacuum while I'm walking down the street.  So sad


Man, that's just awesome. I like making announcements to scare my kids.


----------



## erockg

d3myz said:


> Yea it's really weird, and why no single tap? It's very possible I have a bad pair, i'm sure a large quantity of them were not QC'd properly. I'll swap them out and see.


Definitely swap them.  I only used double tap and tap/hold.  Left - double tap for play/pause, Right - double tap for ANR/Passthrough on/off, Left - tap hold for volume down, Right - volume up.  Seems to work well for me.  Being way too immersed in the Alexa ecosystem does help, whew!


----------



## d3myz

erockg said:


> I tell my Roomba to vacuum while I'm walking down the street.  So sad


Two more things I'd like to see that are consistent with other Alexa products. the ability to rename the actual buds from Echo Buds 008G and Choosing a different wake word.


----------



## erockg

d3myz said:


> Man, that's just awesome. I like making announcements to scare my kids.


That is brilliant.  I'll try it tonight, with a creepy whisper at dusk.


----------



## Odioer

d3myz said:


> To give you an example, when I grab my left bud to take it out. EVERYTIME the ANR/PASSTHROUGH switches. I didn't double click it and long Press on works if I attack the sensor and hold it. Another thing I tested was the Proximity sensor, it's ridiculous. When i'm changing eartips it's start stop, start, stop etc. It should only go on/off when something is a couple mm's away from it, yet this thing senses my fingers when i'm about an inch or more away and there's no way in the app to disable it, like the Sony's. Can't disable voice prompts either.
> 
> If you read the amazon reviews, hundreds of people have been experiencing these same issues. and I wasn't having these issues before the update, but maybe I hadn't been using them long enough. If i want to use better tips, the case won't close and the won't charge The buds don't power off unless they are in the case with the lid closed.
> 
> ...



I have been wondering a lot lately about getting some new tips for the SSK. Are there any recommendations for SSK specifically. I am fairly new to using third party tips, I have experimented with switching tips among iems but the SSK stock seems best for my options. Please advise


----------



## rhsauer

d3myz said:


> My press and hold is almost useless on the Echo Buds. I have to press really hard to get it to work and the buds have just stopped working 3 times in less than 24 hours. I removed the stock tips and finally found some that work and fit in the case. With some many things done right on these echo buds, they really have some basic functionality issues. the Pass through mode isn't near as natural sounding as the APPs, it's much more bassy, there's a touch more delay as well, but it picks up a lot of sound, it's kind of like a hearing aid and it's def. better than the xm3's, but it still doesn't feel as good to use as the APPs. last thing is the wind noise. Wow, if I even walk to fast i get a massive amount of wind noise in pass through mode and the amazon support for these is pretty lame. Anyways, all in all, this is a great beta product, drivers sound great, but needs better mid-range. The bass and highs sound fabulous, passive and active noise reduction works very close to as well as the APPs, but like it's been mentioned it's largely due to the passive noise reduction which I personally don't like as well. I really hope the next version of these buds is not buggy, because I really like them, but to be honest this is a beta product, it doesn't consistently work. I'm going to use them this week and see how they work. I still find myself wanted to use the APPs for my daily driver, because the case is so small, they are lightweight and the siri integration with my iphone. Oh, one more thought. with Alexa I can turn on and off Passthrough, but I can't figure out how to turn on/off ANR, any thoughts?


For the press and hold, a “touch” and hold doesn’t work.  You have to drop your finger on the touch area almost as if you are going to tap it, then just leave your finger there.  With practice, it becomes relatively second nature — and it avoids false touches.  As to the mids, I bump them up a bit in the EQ.


----------



## d3myz

rhsauer said:


> For the press and hold, a “touch” and hold doesn’t work.  You have to drop your finger on the touch area almost as if you are going to tap it, then just leave your finger there.  With practice, it becomes relatively second nature — and it avoids false touches.  As to the mids, I bump them up a bit in the EQ.


Yea, it only works sometimes is the problem, touching and holding/ tap and holding etc. even if i touch the left bud it will often double tap. It's def. a hardware issue. As for the mids, I bumped them up one, they sound better for sure, but after that they start to sound hollow. I honestly really like the sound, it has a very refined feel to it. Slightly reminiscent of the MW07 with better bass and worse mids.


----------



## turbobb (Jan 29, 2020)

d3myz said:


> Yea it's really weird, and why no single tap? It's very possible I have a bad pair, i'm sure a large quantity of them were not QC'd properly. I'll swap them out and see.


I made a suggestion for single and triple taps but will need to do it through the official channel. I encourage everyone who wants it to also make a request for it, maybe they'll incorporate it in future FW update?


----------



## Luke Skywalker

d3myz said:


> Those look like the exact tips that come with the MPOW M5/T5 sans the memory foam. Any idea what the difference in the AET 08 and 08a is?


Hmm... I have no idea to tell you the truth.  A guy named Maxwell Dot helped me pick out the JH Lola’s and recommended those tips. I’m not very knowledgeable about any of this stuff


----------



## webvan

turbobb said:


> I made a suggestion for single and triple taps but will need to do it through the official channel. I encourage everyone who wants it to also make a request for it, maybe they'll incorporate it in future FW update?


"or an option to do nothing for those who are worried about"


Caipirina said:


> does he compare the ANC to the APP?
> Kinda not in the mood for another 10min dose of Jim right now
> 
> (ok, I ended up scrubbing through it ... solid ANC but not APP / XM3 level)



Watched it too, yeah, not a lot to write home about. Is it me or do they look a LOT like the L2Ps, down to the tips and single button ? Possibly the same "source" factory.


----------



## Kulch

Has anyone tried the liberty Air 2s with the new soundcore app and customised eq and signature sound? Youtubers are going crazy about them.


----------



## Kulch

Odioer said:


> I have been wondering a lot lately about getting some new tips for the SSK. Are there any recommendations for SSK specifically. I am fairly new to using third party tips, I have experimented with switching tips among iems but the SSK stock seems best for my options. Please advise


I use the standard comply foam tips T400s and they provide more bass and warmth compared to stock tips. For me the left stock tip didn't sit well and the foams provided a much better seal as they sit further in ear canal. . Have to take them off for the charging case though.


----------



## jant71

We got a couple for those looking for the Air Pod style...

Glidic Sound Air SPT-7000








and Cleer Goal











More for the ambient crowd so no ANC here


----------



## Firevortex

SaveTheMantaRays said:


> After time, I agree I notice more driver flex with Nuarl N6.  Sometimes it is bad.  Sometimes unnoticeable. Foam tips definitely soften the problem.
> But because of the worsening of the flex, I am starting to think much definitely about them.  Plus not quite as comfy as the lighter models.
> 
> After time, I think the T1X is a bit closer to N6, than originally thought.  But if you use them while exercising, I do notice a "fluttering" as someone here described.
> ...





I'll be getting my N6Pro soon! so many great reviews on here got me curious  what do you mean by driver flex? 

according to some taiwanese reviews on youtube the N6Pros sound quite a lot better than the N6 especially on the sound stage side.


----------



## NKOTB

Kulch said:


> Has anyone tried the liberty Air 2s with the new soundcore app and customised eq and signature sound? Youtubers are going crazy about them.



I just tried them and really liked them, and the app, but could not get them to stay deep enough in my ear to maintain a good seal. I looked at using other (longer, foam) tips, but then they didn't fit in the case. Since I'd be using them for travel, I decided to take them back, and am now looking again for the grail combo of sound quality + ANC + Ambient sound + background noise cancellation (call quality is most important) for under $150... May just end up getting a trucker headset like the Blue Tiger B-450XT.


----------



## DigDub

The sound quality of the Nuarl N6 Pro is superb. Excellent timbre, sound is very natural and realistic. It's not a flat sound. Nuarl has taken great effort to tune it to be balanced without excessive bass or peaky treble. Soundstage is also outside the head, I was listening to the binaural track from audiocheck website, I really thought someone was knocking on my door. The finely balanced sound together with the excellent timbre tricked me. With other earbuds, I was able to tell it can from the earbuds due to the unnatural timbre or boosted bass/treble. 

Minor cons would be it has average isolation, and the wings doesn't do anything.


----------



## thimantha

jant71 said:


> We got a couple for those looking for the Air Pod style...



Errmm. Those look nothing like Airpods.


----------



## caprimulgus

thimantha said:


> Errmm. Those look nothing like Airpods.



I believe they are referring to the "earbud" style (without tips) of the Airpods, as opposed to the "IEM" style (with sealed tips) of the Airpods Pro.


----------



## Caipirina

jant71 said:


> We got a couple for those looking for the Air Pod style...
> 
> Glidic Sound Air SPT-7000
> 
> ...




Who is 'We'   

Always looking for semi-open since they are usually thudless for runners.


----------



## Caipirina

thimantha said:


> Errmm. Those look nothing like Airpods.


 Yep, what @caprimulgus said: Its the semi-open style they refer to (like the AirPods or Sabbath X12) ... 
on the other hand there are stem based TWS (like the QCY T5) that look more like the AirPods, but are IEMs


----------



## hifi80sman

d3myz said:


> So, off topic, These are BT Cans, but out of the 4 ANC devices I have, These are the best I have. I even tried them up againt the Sony HF-1000XM3 and ANC wise they are very similar,  but they were $60, 30 hour battery life, Great for phone calls, Sound quality is very good, wouldn't say exceptional but I just got a second pair today and am Just blown away at how nice they are for the $$. I also have a black pair, I just got done burning them in for a week, but they don't sound quite as good as the Brown and Silver. Anyways, wanted to share, @hifi80sman, you need to snag these and compare them to your Sony's and see if my comparison of the ANC is accurate.


I picked up the Momentum 3 and have been using those lately.  

I may pick those up, but the 1More ANC just popped up on Amazon for Same Day.  Gah, what do I do?!


----------



## BigZ12

Airpods Pro question(s). (I'm on 2C54 firmware)

I have noticable more bass with ANC/Transparency ON than with OFF. Is that common?
It's so typical, because I don't like the "high-frequency warble" with ANC on. I only use ANC when sitting still.

When I received them I went through the fitting test, and got "Good Seal" reported with both M and L tips.
Now I have yellow EVERY time with the same tips. To get green I have to gently push them in the ear. 
I feel I have good seal, since the ANC work ok (similar on both sides) and I think they sound like they should (despite I would like a little more bass, and especially with ANC OFF)

BTW: I don't get more bass when pushing them gently in the ear to get green "Good Seal" on the Ear tip test.


----------



## Caipirina

Found another cheapo that tickles my fancy   (Yes, I am the cheapo-hunter apparently) 
2 things i like, the minimalistic look, no silly logos or such (everything with a phone logo on the buttons is already out IMHO) 
and it is offered by 2 or 3 shops I usually frequent for IEM needs (not naming names, I think at least one of them is not to be named here) ... 
Sure, at 14$ I am not expecting sonic wonders, but then again ... who knows ... also, it's a form factor I have yet to enjoy  


 

Does anyone know anything about these? I saw MissAudio announcing them on Jan 6 on their twitter. And yet, they failed to show up on my daily searches. Only by mistake (looking for SE9 TWS and typing S9 TWS instead) I saw these ...

What other strategies people here apply to see the most recent TWS on AE? Mine is to look for 'waterproof tws', that filters out all those i7s airpod clones, and then sort by newest (which somehow does not work properly on desktop anymore, only on mobile) ... and still there is a lot of 'old' crap that shops just re-list to get up in the rankings ... 

I wish there was a feature that shows me all the really new entires of the TWS sub-category (which is not even its own category yet) 

Also fun to look for ANC TWS .. there's a new model at 25$ that I very strongly doubt has real ANC (but they call it PURE ANC)


----------



## gdv brisbane

Odioer said:


> I have been wondering a lot lately about getting some new tips for the SSK. Are there any recommendations for SSK specifically. I am fairly new to using third party tips, I have experimented with switching tips among iems but the SSK stock seems best for my options. Please advise





Kulch said:


> I use the standard comply foam tips T400s and they provide more bass and warmth compared to stock tips. For me the left stock tip didn't sit well and the foams provided a much better seal as they sit further in ear canal. . Have to take them off for the charging case though.



Can anyone recommend third party tips that will still charge in the SSK case?


----------



## Timastyle

I use the SpinFit 360 with my SSK in large without issues.


----------



## Odioer (Jan 30, 2020)

Timastyle said:


> I use the SpinFit 360 with my SSK in large without issues.


Hi thanks, can you please confirm the model number?
Edit: i got it 360 are tws version. Thanks, sorry for rushed response


----------



## Timastyle

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07PJNHM3Z/ref=cm_sw_r_sms_apap_xkLLW9hX8AdPu


----------



## d3myz

BigZ12 said:


> Airpods Pro question(s). (I'm on 2C54 firmware)
> 
> I have noticable more bass with ANC/Transparency ON than with OFF. Is that common?
> It's so typical, because I don't like the "high-frequency warble" with ANC on. I only use ANC when sitting still.
> ...


I'm on firmware 2b588,  I toggle between ANC/OFF/Transparency. I get the most bass when them off, I know on this firmware revision they have more bass, but the don't sound very good unless they are Eq'd also the bass is really round and not punchy. Not sure what to tell you about the tips. the don't feel like regular tips. I just wiggle mine until the anc works well, then I know they are in.


----------



## BigZ12 (Jan 30, 2020)

d3myz said:


> I'm on firmware 2b588,  I toggle between ANC/OFF/Transparency. I get the most bass when them off, I know on this firmware revision they have more bass, but the don't sound very good unless they are Eq'd also the bass is really round and not punchy. Not sure what to tell you about the tips. the don't feel like regular tips. I just wiggle mine until the anc works well, then I know they are in.


Thanks.
It's the opposite on 2C54, more bass with ANC/Transparency. No doubt about it.
I feel the tips are sealing quite well. Both size M and L, and the ANC is working well on both sides. They are comfortable, and they sit firm in my ears.
Still I don't get the "Ear tip fit test" to get green, without gently pressing them (I don't have to press hard) into the ear canal. And that was no problem on earlier firmwares.
Sooo... let's hope there's a reason that 2C54 was pulled, and that everything is fine in a new firmware. (hopefully it will get here soon)

I've had a little bad luck lately, with a broken tooth (expensive), coffee on my Logitech Master MX3 mouse (and the rug), the SSK BT03 that was broken etc, so let's hope it's nothing wrong with my Airpods as well


----------



## Trebor1966

A general technical question regarding TWS:
in case you have one defective TWS earbud and get only one side (left or right) from an other identical set as replacement.
Do you think that pairing and syncing with the replacement is possible?
Two of us have a pair FIIL T1X with one defective side affected with high flattering static noise - so it would be an option to get only a
replacement for the defective side.


----------



## d3myz

i've been spending more time with the echo buds, I reset them and re-configured the controls and everything seems to be working much better. After replacing the terrible stock tips with some other wide bore's I've got to say these sound really great and the EQ even though it's only 3-band is really effective. I'm pretty surprised by how much detail they have. They do remind me of a bose product, the bass response is excellent and thumpy and clean highs, but with better mids. They still aren't as fat as i'd like and when I crank the mids up at higher volumes it gets a bit shrill, but color me impressed.


----------



## d3myz (Jan 30, 2020)

BigZ12 said:


> Thanks.
> It's the opposite on 2C54, more bass with ANC/Transparency. No doubt about it.
> I feel the tips are sealing quite well. Both size M and L, and the ANC is working well on both sides. They are comfortable, and they sit firm in my ears.
> Still I don't get the "Ear tip fit test" to get green, without gently pressing them (I don't have to press hard) into the ear canal. And that was no problem on earlier firmwares.
> ...


   Yea, I had heard they "improved the sound" but reduced the effectiveness of the ANC. My last pair had that firmware and all I really remember is that the ANC sucked. Sending some good luck your way!



Trebor1966 said:


> A general technical question regarding TWS:
> in case you have one defective TWS earbud and get only one side (left or right) from an other identical set as replacement.
> Do you think that pairing and syncing with the replacement is possible?
> Two of us have a pair FIIL T1X with one defective side affected with high flattering static noise - so it would be an option to get only a
> replacement for the defective side.


 From what I know and having multiple M5's, T1x's, Anbes 359's, Ear Fun Free's etc. Each BT pair has a unique mac address that pairs it to the device and the other unit, but I could be wrong on the newer units that connect individually.


----------



## SaveTheMantaRays

So been testing the N6PRO.  First impressions---->>> I am not that impressed.

I will let them open up a little bit. Was more impressed with regular N6 when i first received them.

But the GAME CHANGER is SPINFIT CP360s!!!!!

Makes the N6PRO sound so much better to my ears.  Then I threw them on the N6 regular.  Amazing. The N6 should really come
with the spinfits in the box.  For $130, let the buyer have those choices.

Even threw the spinfits on the T1X, amazing.   All three sound better.   For $40 the winner might be T1X now. price does matter.

Is there a better option from SPINFIT for the T1X?  The specially made CP360s for NUARL fit ok, but I bet there is a better fit.


----------



## jasonb

Kulch said:


> Has anyone tried the liberty Air 2s with the new soundcore app and customised eq and signature sound? Youtubers are going crazy about them.



I was at Walmart today grocery shopping and grabbed a Liberty Air 2 while I was there. So far I actually like them better than the Galaxy Buds. They have tons of different EQ presets, and a graphic EQ as well. Currently I'm trying the "flat" preset, and these definitely have better clarity and more detail, and top end than the Galaxy Buds. Bass isn't too bad either, and extends pretty low.


----------



## gibletzor

d3myz said:


> i've been spending more time with the echo buds, I reset them and re-configured the controls and everything seems to be working much better. After replacing the terrible stock tips with some other wide bore's I've got to say these sound really great and the EQ even though it's only 3-band is really effective. I'm pretty surprised by how much detail they have. They do remind me of a bose product, the bass response is excellent and thumpy and clean highs, but with better mids. They still aren't as fat as i'd like and when I crank the mids up at higher volumes it gets a bit shrill, but color me impressed.


So a reset got rid of the touch control problems for you?  I tried that with both sets and it never made a difference


----------



## d3myz

gibletzor said:


> So a reset got rid of the touch control problems for you?  I tried that with both sets and it never made a difference


No, they still have issues. when i grab the left it registers a double tap. I just turned the double tap off.  and I still have to pound and hold to get them to register a press and hold. And they still freak out when i take them out, play/pause, play, pause etc. They are def. going back, but I really am impressed with the sound.


----------



## gibletzor

d3myz said:


> No, they still have issues. when i grab the left it registers a double tap. I just turned the double tap off.  and I still have to pound and hold to get them to register a press and hold. And they still freak out when i take them out, play/pause, play, pause etc. They are def. going back, but I really am impressed with the sound.


Ok.  So you're in pretty much the same boat I was then.  I loved everything about them but not being able to control them without my phone was enough to not keep them.


----------



## d3myz

gibletzor said:


> Ok.  So you're in pretty much the same boat I was then.  I loved everything about them but not being able to control them without my phone was enough to not keep them.


Yup. it's such a shame, I also noticed the battery life wasn't that great, and the case, for how heavy it was would only charge them fully about 2 maybe 2.5x. Hoping this $40 off is an attempt to get rid of them and they are working on Gen. 2


----------



## jasonb

The Anker Liberty Air 2 is even better with comply tips. I had a never used pair of medium T-400's laying around and with them cut slightly shorter so they still fit in the case these are awesome and sound awesome on the "bass reducer" setting. Highly recommended!


----------



## erockg (Jan 30, 2020)

hifi80sman said:


> I picked up the Momentum 3 and have been using those lately.
> 
> I may pick those up, but the 1More ANC just popped up on Amazon for Same Day.  Gah, what do I do?!


Ugh.  Thanks to you I just ordered those 1More's for delivery tomorrow!  Have to check them out.  Not too optimistic.


----------



## d3myz

erockg said:


> Ugh.  Thanks to you I just ordered those 1More's for delivery tomorrow!  Have to check them out.  Not too optimistic.


Don't blame us for your poor choices.


----------



## d3myz

So I wanted to share something I found while experimenting with the FIIL T1x. Shout out to @Trebor1966  for making me open my 2nd pair of T1x's but it got me curious. He asked if it was possible to pair 2 mismatched T1x's together and I tried it and it worked. I did the following. 

All I did was remove the T1x from my BT menu and turned them off, then turned on the new L and the old R at the same time and continued to hold the sensor down until I heard them say "Synced" the* 2nd *time. It will go through pairing, then sync or disconnected and then sync again. Pretty handy if you have two pair and lose one.


----------



## erockg

I've been rockin' my Echo Buds on and off today for about 5 hours without putting them in the case to charge.  I have to say, I've got the volume up and down tap/hold down to where it works great and Pink Floyd's - The Division Bell sounds incredible.  For 89 bucks it's worth a shot.  Everyone seems to have different results.  My Libratone Track Air+ are collecting dust this week.


----------



## d3myz

erockg said:


> I've been rockin' my Echo Buds on and off today for about 5 hours without putting them in the case to charge.  I have to say, I've got the volume up and down tap/hold down to where it works great and Pink Floyd's - The Division Bell sounds incredible.  For 89 bucks it's worth a shot.  Everyone seems to have different results.  My Libratone Track Air+ are collecting dust this week.


Nice! Do you have ANR on? PassThrough? etc.


----------



## erockg

d3myz said:


> Nice! Do you have ANR on? PassThrough? etc.


ANC.  I love the silence  . I toggle Passthrough if I need to chat with someone.  It's double tap on my right year.  Pauses the music and kicks in Passthrough.


----------



## Sam L

BigZ12 said:


> Thanks.
> It's the opposite on 2C54, more bass with ANC/Transparency. No doubt about it.
> I feel the tips are sealing quite well. Both size M and L, and the ANC is working well on both sides. They are comfortable, and they sit firm in my ears.
> Still I don't get the "Ear tip fit test" to get green, without gently pressing them (I don't have to press hard) into the ear canal. And that was no problem on earlier firmwares.
> ...


I'm still on 2c54 and noticed the same thing - more bass with anc on.


----------



## clerkpalmer

Received my 1more today. So far not good.  The sound is excellent with ANC off.  Detailed and clean.  When ANC goes on they become a muddy boomy mess. No details and the highs roll off completely. It has to be a mistake of some sort. They claim a fw update is coming on 2/2 so I'm hopeful they will fix this. Otherwise they have to go back. It's too bad. Build quality is top notch and the metal case is excellent. Fingers crossed. Maybe try burn in? IDK.


----------



## erockg

What a bummer.  Mine arrive tomorrow.


----------



## voicemaster (Jan 30, 2020)

Mine will arrive tmrw too. Well I could live without ANC, but hopefully the passthrough sound is decent.


----------



## erockg

Buckle up everyone!


----------



## clerkpalmer

voicemaster said:


> Mine will arrive tmrw too


Let me know if you think I'm nuts. Never heard sound change like that. It's hard to believe.


----------



## voicemaster

clerkpalmer said:


> Let me know if you think I'm nuts. Never heard sound change like that. It's hard to believe.


All they need is eq in the app. 10 band is perfect, 5 band is decent.


----------



## clerkpalmer

voicemaster said:


> All they need is eq in the app. 10 band is perfect, 5 band is decent.


The app does not offer eq from what I can tell. Controls ANC. And passthrough. Thats it.


----------



## erockg

What’s odd is that JRR and Gamesky’s reviews have not mentioned this. Maybe it’s just random, maybe not.


----------



## voicemaster

erockg said:


> What’s odd is that JRR and Gamesky’s reviews have not mentioned this. Maybe it’s just random, maybe not.


Gamesky did mention it but he kinda soften it out saying it still offer clarity just a bump in the bass. He said he love the sound without the ANC tho.


----------



## voicemaster

clerkpalmer said:


> Let me know if you think I'm nuts. Never heard sound change like that. It's hard to believe.


I think you are 80% nuts and 20% true xD


----------



## clerkpalmer

voicemaster said:


> Gamesky did mention it but he kinda soften it out saying it still offer clarity just a bump in the bass. He said he love the sound without the ANC tho.


The problem is the bass is overwhelming and bleeds into the mids. The lower ANC stage is better but it still takes away from the sq.  I'll be interested in your impressions. I'll try them again in the morning.


----------



## voicemaster

clerkpalmer said:


> The problem is the bass is overwhelming and bleeds into the mids. The lower ANC stage is better but it still takes away from the sq.  I'll be interested in your impressions. I'll try them again in the morning.


Is the passive noise isolation bad? I use my mifo 07 and t1x on a daily basis and I don't think I need any ANC tbh. I use mine in my workplace, starbucks, laundromat and barely hear anything if any it will be super loud and you probably want to hear those sound really (firefighter sirens for example)


----------



## clerkpalmer

voicemaster said:


> Is the passive noise isolation bad? I use my mifo 07 and t1x on a daily basis and I don't think I need any ANC tbh. I use mine in my workplace, starbucks, laundromat and barely hear anything if any it will be super loud and you probably want to hear those sound really (firefighter sirens for example)


They are more like a bose style than a true iem so isolation isn't great. The whole point for me is the ANC so if the ANC kills the sq, they are useless. I think it's an overcorrection in the software. If they can sort it out they should be solid. My APP sound better with ANC on.


----------



## chinmie

my Airsun X8 has arrived. my short review/impression on this:
the unboxing was really barebone. the box is black with no markings, with no plastic wrappings, the manual is printed in a really crappy paper.

but the unit itself is quite nice. it's got that velvety rubber coating all over the case and the earpiece itself. the material is solid. 

it has a short TWS nozzle like the Jabra and Mifo o5, and the case is shallow, so eartips selections are limited. i use the Tennmak Whirlwind on mine

it uses 4 mic arrays (one on the outside, and onr in the inside) like the XM3 for ANC. compared to the Dyplay BQC35 which only uses 2 mics (outside only) 

ANC is about the same level as the BQC35, but it differs slightly: the X8 slightly muffles the highs more than the BQC35, but the BQC35 reduces lowest rumble slightly more. so it's a toss up depending usage. the X8 has slightly better passive blocking. 
also note that the BQC35 ANC would clip if there's a sudden clicking noise (like turning on light switch, dropping keys on glass table, or clapping). not a deal breaker, but it's there. the X8 and XM3 don't have that problem. 
but my X8 with ANC on would make that buzzing noise on the left earpiece if i cupped my hand and touch it (like when you touch the guitar cable jack when connected to an amp). the right one doesn't have that problem.

Call quality is no contest. the Dyplay BQC35 has one of the best and most natural mic sound that I've tested. 

ease of use, the X8 can control all volume, track skip, and play/pause from either left or right unit. but the double click or triple click scheme is a bit finnicky. the ability to turn on/off from the earpiece is also a plus for me. 

Sound signature, the X8 is mid centric with a warm veil across the freq. bass mids treble are about the same level (the BQC35 is a subbass monster with recessed mids in comparison) 
the treble of the X8 is a bit too warm for my taste. the good thing is this sound won't be fatiguing even for long sessions. 

overall I'm quite pleased with this X8. i think between the WH and WF XM3, and the BQC35, my ANC needs for now are about covered


----------



## voicemaster

clerkpalmer said:


> They are more like a bose style than a true iem so isolation isn't great. The whole point for me is the ANC so if the ANC kills the sq, they are useless. I think it's an overcorrection in the software. If they can sort it out they should be solid. My APP sound better with ANC on.


What about when ANC off?


----------



## d3myz

erockg said:


> What’s odd is that JRR and Gamesky’s reviews have not mentioned this. Maybe it’s just random, maybe not.


I'm fairly certain Gamesky did mention the sound changes with ANC and he wasn't a fan. What's strange is that the Sony's sound changes, they sound best with everything off, but there is less bass. The OTE cans I have have a drastic sound change without ANC they sound too midrangey and bassy, yet when I turn the ANC on they sound pretty fantastic. I wonder what all these companies are doing that is resulting in such inconsistent results with ANC.


----------



## mikp

erockg said:


> What’s odd is that JRR and Gamesky’s reviews have not mentioned this. Maybe it’s just random, maybe not.



ohh, why would "content creators" not mention certain things about products they get early and free to create videos.


----------



## BigZ12

Sam L said:


> I'm still on 2c54 and noticed the same thing - more bass with anc on.


Thanks for confirming that. 
Do you have the same problem with the "Ear tip fit test" too?


----------



## marcusd

The TEVI landed with us a few weeks ago. Certainly, a step on some of the budget models and the tuning is quite balanced.

https://headfonics.com/2020/01/lypertek-tevi-wireless-weekend/


----------



## X-Nemesis

Hey guys, what tms has great balanced sound and EASY buttons to push in so you're not jamming them in your ears.  The bomakers and the Sabbat e12's I'm finding too resistant so they become uncomfortable I've time.
I'd like at least 5hrs playtime.


----------



## stormwrx

clerkpalmer said:


> Received my 1more today. So far not good.  The sound is excellent with ANC off.  Detailed and clean.  When ANC goes on they become a muddy boomy mess. No details and the highs roll off completely. It has to be a mistake of some sort. They claim a fw update is coming on 2/2 so I'm hopeful they will fix this. Otherwise they have to go back. It's too bad. Build quality is top notch and the metal case is excellent. Fingers crossed. Maybe try burn in? IDK.



I received these yesterday as well. Haven't had enough time with them to fully evaluate the sound, but agree with your findings so far. Also, are you finding the touch controls to be very finicky? It takes a hard tap for mine to switch between ANC and ambient.


----------



## clerkpalmer

voicemaster said:


> What about when ANC off?


With ANC off they sound excellent. But I need more time to determine how good in comparison to something like the lp2 pro or n6 pro. My initial reaction is with ANC off they are very very solid.


----------



## clerkpalmer

stormwrx said:


> I received these yesterday as well. Haven't had enough time with them to fully evaluate the sound, but agree with your findings so far. Also, are you finding the touch controls to be very finicky? It takes a hard tap for mine to switch between ANC and ambient.



In the few times I tried, not too much issue getting them to switch modes. The app allows it as well.


----------



## Toom

Seeking some advice on how to maximise battery length with the Senn MTWs - am loving the SQ, but the charging case is a complete mystery to me as it seems to actually make the buds discharge faster than the speed of What.


----------



## caprimulgus (Jan 31, 2020)

So decided to take a punt on Soundpeats Truengine SE - the description of “100% bass” piqued my interest! Aha. Running them with bass boosting “hip hop” eq in Spotify, and that’s a decent enough amount of bass for me! lol 

So anyone tried the SE and also tried the Syllable S101 or Liberty 2 Pro? How would the bass quantity compare on those? I assume L2P will sound much better in general, but also have as much bass or more? With bass boosted by the Soundcore EQ, would they rival the Truengine SE in bass? (Remember, I’m a basshead here, so even if you find them muddy, they may be ok for me!) 

Happy with the Truengine SE, but wife may take them, so I may need to buy another pair (or Symphony 101 / L2P). For the money though, Truengine SE is great!

I haven’t compared them to my wired IEMs - I’m kinda scared to, because they would probably show them up! (I’m sure the details won’t compare to my KZ ZSX!) But in a vacuum, the SE sound fine enough to me (listening to Spotify streaming).


----------



## erockg

mikp said:


> ohh, why would "content creators" not mention certain things about products they get early and free to create videos.


See above.  They did.  I just missed it.


----------



## stormwrx

Looks like the Cleer Ally Plus are available once again:

https://cleeraudio.com/in-ear-headphones/ally-plus-true-wireless-noise-cancelling-earbuds-headphone/


----------



## clerkpalmer (Jan 31, 2020)

A little more listening and it's just confirming my initial thoughts - these sound best without any ANC and it's not really that close of a call.  There are two stages of ANC - the first stage does the least damage.  The second stage just pumps the bass to a level that makes them un-listenable.  It's not clean tight bass.  It's just a mess.  Presumably the higher level is intended to be used in noisy environments and maybe just maybe in that situation it will lessen the impact of the bass boost.  Unlike the APP which is enhanced by the use of ANC, these seem to be the opposite.  The problem I have is that if I am going to use these without ANC, I might as well just stick with something like the N6 pro.  Speaking of the ANC itself (and separate and apart from the SQ issue), it's pretty damn good.  The first level gives me an APP effect.  The second level is utter and complete silence.  It's pretty powerful.  Another real problem is the app - it's a disaster.  It wouldn't connect to my buds at first.  It makes you create an account which is super annoying.  Now it keeps opening on my phone automatically and I can't make it stop so I had to delete it.  Hope a fix is in the works.  Looks like even with the release delays, these are half baked at the moment.


----------



## CocaCola15

jasonb said:


> The Anker Liberty Air 2 is even better with comply tips. I had a never used pair of medium T-400's laying around and with them cut slightly shorter so they still fit in the case these are awesome and sound awesome on the "bass reducer" setting. Highly recommended!


I have the Liberty 2 Pro and use the Comply Audio Pro foam tips and they fit the case, no trimming, Work great.


----------



## jasonb

CocaCola15 said:


> I have the Liberty 2 Pro and use the Comply Audio Pro foam tips and they fit the case, no trimming, Work great.



I ordered the ones from Comply that are meant for the Anker brand buds, but these will work until those arrive.


----------



## BigZ12

stormwrx said:


> Looks like the Cleer Ally Plus are available once again:
> 
> https://cleeraudio.com/in-ear-headphones/ally-plus-true-wireless-noise-cancelling-earbuds-headphone/


Anyone tried these? They check all the boxes, with ANC, ambient mode, AAC/AptX, 10h battery and they look kinda cool.
Of course, they don't send to Norway


----------



## webvan

CocaCola15 said:


> I have the Liberty 2 Pro and use the Comply Audio Pro foam tips and they fit the case, no trimming, Work great.



I'll have to try again since I have the Audio Pro (the round ones right?) handy but I've always found that Comply tips muffled the sound so I've really given up on them. Having a Comply in one ear and the stock silicone in the other generally makes me want to cry


----------



## d3myz

mikp said:


> ohh, why would "content creators" not mention certain things about products they get early and free to create videos.



Gamesky gets free products and commissions from a lot of Chinese companies based on his reputation for positively evaluating products, that is why you will rarely speak an unkind word about any product he reviews and when he does he uses that "southern charm" to minimize it. Him and a lot of reviewers get paid and also get free products, so it's like listening to a salesman you don't know is a salesman.


----------



## CocaCola15

webvan said:


> I'll have to try again since I have the Audio Pro (the round ones right?) handy but I've always found that Comply tips muffled the sound so I've really given up on them. Having a Comply in one ear and the stock silicone in the other generally makes me want to cry


Yep, the bulby ones. I don't find the L2P muffled with the Complys, sound good to me. I use the EQ in the Soundcore app when listening to Amazon HD Music, and my own app (Kaiser Tone) for resident files (iPhone 8+). So if I need to tweak the sound, I do. So not a purist in that sense. But muffled is not an issue with the Complys for me. But I understand others are not foam fans. I also favor foam on the Cambridge Audio Melomania 1, my other go-to TW phones. For the Tranya T1 and Qcy sets I have, I used silicone, but I barely ever take either out of the case any more.


----------



## webvan (Jan 31, 2020)

Sure, to each their own, do try the Comply/left - Silicone/right test though when you get a chance  I had to do that to pinpoint the problem I was having with the Complys.
I've found that I have less of a problem with "shiny" foams like those that came with the Jabra Sport Elite or the ikko ones. I think the famous Shure "olives" might be like that too but I haven't had a chance to use them.


----------



## xenoVa

How good is the sound quality of Sony WF XM3 ? Equivalent of which wired earphone ?


----------



## assassin10000

X-Nemesis said:


> Hey guys, what tms has great balanced sound and EASY buttons to push in so you're not jamming them in your ears.  The bomakers and the Sabbat e12's I'm finding too resistant so they become uncomfortable I've time.
> I'd like at least 5hrs playtime.



For the X12/E12's I typically tuck my index in the top and push the button with my thumb, so no pressure at all.

You may want to try a touch sensor TWS. The Air-XR I got not too long ago doesn't have overly sensitive touch sensors. Double tapping for track skipping is somewhat of a pain, they like really fast taps.



webvan said:


> Sure, to each their own, do try the Comply/left - Silicone/right test though when you get a chance  I had to do that to pinpoint the problem I was having with the Complys.
> I've found that I have less of a problem with "shiny" foams like those that came with the Jabra Sport Elite or the ikko ones. I think the famous Shure "olives" might be like that too but I haven't had a chance to use them.



The Shure's are my favorites with small diameter IEM's. They have a smooth outer coating. The Ikko and Misodiko are similar. 

The generic AliExpress foams appear to be between the coated and rougher Comply tips. I've never used actual comply tips so I can't 100% say for sure.


I typically prefer foam tips. I don't like the vacuum/suction effect I get with silicone.


----------



## webvan

RTings have just published their review of the L2Ps : https://www.rtings.com/headphones/reviews/anker/soundcore-liberty-2-pro-truly-wireless

It's detailed as usual but I find it a bit lacking in terms of "feel", there are no comments about the hiss for instance (that all versions have to some extent) which you'd think would have been measurable with all the stuff they measure. Also they give it a poor soundstage, while I think we all agree here that it's one of its best features. It almost seems that they've decided that it was impossible for an IEM to have a good soundstage due to their design. Maybe it's because they're not able to measure it with their dummy head ?


----------



## vaaccess

voicemaster said:


> Is the passive noise isolation bad? I use my mifo 07 and t1x on a daily basis and I don't think I need any ANC tbh. I use mine in my workplace, starbucks, laundromat and barely hear anything if any it will be super loud and you probably want to hear those sound really (firefighter sirens for example)



I would tend to agree. When I have my mifo o7s in, even when at lower volumes, the passive isolation is enough for me. I can’t hear people talking to me when they are in. 

Now if only they had passthrough....


----------



## SilverEars

Rtings souncore liberty 2 pro review

https://www.rtings.com/headphones/reviews/anker/soundcore-liberty-2-pro-truly-wireless

It's definately V-shaped based on their measurements.


----------



## vaaccess

Tip question for the Mifo o7. 

I have both the RadioShack and the misodiko TWS-Pro tips, along with the OEM. 

Only the OEM tips fit in the case and allow the buds to charge. 

while I prefer both the others (especially the Misodiko), not fitting in the case is a deal breaker. 

anyone know what I can use that will fit?  (or may fit if you haven’t tried it but it fits in your shallow case) fit?

thanks!


----------



## assassin10000

vaaccess said:


> Tip question for the Mifo o7.
> 
> I have both the RadioShack and the misodiko TWS-Pro tips, along with the OEM.
> 
> ...



Are the Misodiko too long or too wide in diameter? If diameter roll the tips and insert into the case.

I found the small Ikko tips barely fit the Spunky Beats case. Medium or Large would have been too large in diameter to fit.


----------



## CocaCola15

webvan said:


> Sure, to each their own, do try the Comply/left - Silicone/right test though when you get a chance  I had to do that to pinpoint the problem I was having with the Complys.
> I've found that I have less of a problem with "shiny" foams like those that came with the Jabra Sport Elite or the ikko ones. I think the famous Shure "olives" might be like that too but I haven't had a chance to use them.


I will give it a try, see what happens. I switched so long ago, right after I got the L2Ps, worth a listen. My aging ears are not as needy as some, haha. Both the L2P and M1s sound so nice, I hesitate to try another else until some new tech hits, maybe the Google Pixel Buds II, who knows?


----------



## Luke Skywalker

Wish the N6 Pro had ANC. They sound pretty good though...I’m hoping for an audiophile level TWS.  Maybe that’ll be the new Klipsch


----------



## FYLegend

Last week Aufo M1 was on sale for 50$ and the price went up earlier this week, but this morning there was a Lightning Deal for 42$CAD on Amazon.ca. Hope they can replace my Jabees Firefly Pro (which I still can't seem to find) and don't sound Aufo!


----------



## vaaccess

assassin10000 said:


> Are the Misodiko too long or too wide in diameter? If diameter roll the tips and insert into the case.
> 
> I found the small Ikko tips barely fit the Spunky Beats case. Medium or Large would have been too large in diameter to fit.



ummmmmm....this is one of those...why didn’t I think of that...!!!!

confirmed, all sizes of the Misodiko fit, if you roll and quickly get them into the case. Perfect!

the RadioShack ones are indeed too long to do that. 

thanks for the idea!


----------



## assassin10000

vaaccess said:


> ummmmmm....this is one of those...why didn’t I think of that...!!!!
> 
> confirmed, all sizes of the Misodiko fit, if you roll and quickly get them into the case. Perfect!
> 
> ...



Glad it worked.

If you want decent short silicone tips that may fit, there is the Spinfit CP360. I have them but still prefer foam.


----------



## hifi80sman

clerkpalmer said:


> Received my 1more today. So far not good.  The sound is excellent with ANC off.  Detailed and clean.  When ANC goes on they become a muddy boomy mess. No details and the highs roll off completely. It has to be a mistake of some sort. They claim a fw update is coming on 2/2 so I'm hopeful they will fix this. Otherwise they have to go back. It's too bad. Build quality is top notch and the metal case is excellent. Fingers crossed. Maybe try burn in? IDK.


Super bummer!

Thanks for the feedback, as I was on the fence here, given I've gone mostly into over-ear streak recently.  Still looking at some of the top TWS', but my collection just got too big.  I'll wait for the FW update.


----------



## jant71 (Jan 31, 2020)

New JVC sports type coming...





Not everything known. BT5.0, LDS antenna, aptX, TWS+, 9 hours per charge, IP55 rated, low profile wind resistant shape and smaller size.


----------



## xenoVa

Is there any true wireless iem costing more than $300 ? I couldn't find any.  It is interesting there aren't any higher end models.


----------



## clerkpalmer

atahanuz said:


> Is there any true wireless iem costing more than $300 ? I couldn't find any.  It is interesting there aren't any higher end models.



The B&O E8 or whatever it is currently costs more than $300 I think but I wouldn't buy it.  More to your point, the high end of TWS seems to be between $250 to $300 at the moment.  We will see if more audiophile companies like Audeze or HiFiman jump into the TWS game.  Klipsch is going high end later this year with a $600 model.  We shall see.


----------



## erockg

I'll definitely try these: https://www.bang-olufsen.com/en/earphones/beoplay-e8-3rd-gen

Keep is another story.


----------



## clerkpalmer

hifi80sman said:


> Super bummer!
> 
> Thanks for the feedback, as I was on the fence here, given I've gone mostly into over-ear streak recently.  Still looking at some of the top TWS', but my collection just got too big.  I'll wait for the FW update.



Yeah, these are not must buys.  I am digging the sound with no ANC - a step up from the APP but they are not going to knock off the MW07, Senns or N6 Pro for pure SQ.  Probably more on the level of the L2P.  The ANC was really the draw for me.


----------



## Luke Skywalker

Anyone tried the Master & Dynamic MW07 Plus?  Supposed to have good sound


----------



## xenoVa

clerkpalmer said:


> The B&O E8 or whatever it is currently costs more than $300 I think but I wouldn't buy it.  More to your point, the high end of TWS seems to be between $250 to $300 at the moment.  We will see if more audiophile companies like Audeze or HiFiman jump into the TWS game.  Klipsch is going high end later this year with a $600 model.  We shall see.



I would prefer a $1000 TOTL TWS iem.  Because these devices are so easy to carry and use. And unlike traditional IEMs, no need for a dac, amp and cable. Just buy a TWS IEM and use it with your smartphone, endgame !

If someone makes a TWS IEM sounding good as current audiophile wired earphones that can be revolutionary.


----------



## erockg

Luke Skywalker said:


> Anyone tried the Master & Dynamic MW07 Plus?  Supposed to have good sound


Yes.  Fit is eh.  I was getting complaints at work that others could hear my music.  ANC is light.  Nowhere near as good as APP or Sony.  Sound is phenomenal though.  I did have dropouts walking outdoors.  Case scratches easily unless in the bag they provide.  I returned mine.  The fit was too temperamental for me.


----------



## Luke Skywalker

erockg said:


> I'll definitely try these: https://www.bang-olufsen.com/en/earphones/beoplay-e8-3rd-gen
> 
> Keep is another story.


Wow those look sweet.  Maybe I’ll pick up a pair...


----------



## tma6

Luke Skywalker said:


> Anyone tried the Master & Dynamic MW07 Plus?  Supposed to have good sound



I tried them for a bit. Wrote a review on them a while back on this thread if you can find it. I like them a lot but had connectivity issues. Also I do think the N6 Pros sound better, but that's just my opinion


----------



## clerkpalmer

atahanuz said:


> I would prefer a $1000 TOTL TWS iem.  Because these devices are so easy to carry and use. And unlike traditional IEMs, no need for a dac, amp and cable. Just buy a TWS IEM and use it with your smartphone, endgame !
> 
> If someone makes a TWS IEM sounding good as current audiophile wired earphones that can be revolutionary.



I suspect we will get there eventually.  I am guessing that right now the issue is that we need LDAC support in TWS and so far no one has done it.  Has to be tied to either battery drain or chipset size because even Sony left it out.  Presumably, higher end DAC/AMPs may require more power and space too.  I have to believe an innovator like Audeze has something cooking in this space.  TWS isine 20?


----------



## erockg (Jan 31, 2020)

atahanuz said:


> I would prefer a $1000 TOTL TWS iem.  Because these devices are so easy to carry and use. And unlike traditional IEMs, no need for a dac, amp and cable. Just buy a TWS IEM and use it with your smartphone, endgame !
> 
> If someone makes a TWS IEM sounding good as current audiophile wired earphones that can be revolutionary.


If these are as good as they seem, I'm all in: https://www.earmicro.com/ They're supposed to have Bragi OS on them.  Those were some of my all-time favorite true wireless earbuds.  I'm sure they'll go on sale too.  Seems Klipsch always has sales.


----------



## Luke Skywalker (Jan 31, 2020)

atahanuz said:


> I would prefer a $1000 TOTL TWS iem.  Because these devices are so easy to carry and use. And unlike traditional IEMs, no need for a dac, amp and cable. Just buy a TWS IEM and use it with your smartphone, endgame !
> 
> If someone makes a TWS IEM sounding good as current audiophile wired earphones that can be revolutionary.


The closest I’ve been able to get to that is getting a JH Audio Bluetooth cable for my Lola IEM’s.

I’m listening to classical right now played from Qobuz on my iPhone over AAC codec and its astonishing

You’ll be into a fair amount of money but man... the sound is comparable to my Audeze LCD-2 cans.

I recently started plugging my HiBy R6 Pro into my Nvidia shield in USB DAC mode and transmitting Aptx sound to my Lola Bluetooth cable.  It’s great being able to watch movies at night and not wake up the whole family.


----------



## voicemaster

Just received my 1more ANC tws and ootb they sound pretty good. I only have like 10 mins to try on my lunch break so I won't be doing sound impression just yet. But, I did try the ANC and it does changed the sound. The bass is elevated and the high is muted at level 2. Then I turned off the ANC and the sound is definitely better, but the funny thing is I can hardly even hear outside noise when the music is playing without the ANC. Of course when there is no music playing, I could hear my surrounding just like a normal IEM (mifo07, t1x, etc) would. Does the passthrough function can be turned on without activating the ANC?


----------



## erockg

Luke Skywalker said:


> Wow those look sweet.  Maybe I’ll pick up a pair...


I've had all the versions of the E8.  Many issues.  Hopefully, they've worked them out.  That said, they're a beautiful set imo.


----------



## xenoVa

clerkpalmer said:


> I suspect we will get there eventually.  I am guessing that right now the issue is that we need LDAC support in TWS and so far no one has done it.  Has to be tied to either battery drain or chipset size because even Sony left it out.  Presumably, higher end DAC/AMPs may require more power and space too.  I have to believe an innovator like Audeze has something cooking in this space.  TWS isine 20?



We will definetly get there. Probably in 5 years or even less. Wireless headphones will reach the quality of wired ones so* the entire amplifier, cable etc. industries will die. *Because a wireless standalone headphone will be able to perform equally or better than them !


----------



## jant71 (Jan 31, 2020)

atahanuz said:


> I would prefer a $1000 TOTL TWS iem.  Because these devices are so easy to carry and use. And unlike traditional IEMs, no need for a dac, amp and cable. Just buy a TWS IEM and use it with your smartphone, endgame !
> 
> If someone makes a TWS IEM sounding good as current audiophile wired earphones that can be revolutionary.



They(the higher end brands) only offer the option to plug in to a BT cable. We are talking multi-armatures, up to double digit drivers so no room. The expensive dynamics also wouldn't sound near as good if you crammed up a bunch of stuff inside their housings. They will resist trying to solve all the issues that comes with an all in one solution so you are gonna get more of the Ionic SE215, Fostex TM2, Fiio/TRN style solution to plug the $1000 plus earphones into. We are just waiting for better versions of this type.


----------



## Luke Skywalker

Luke Skywalker said:


> The closest I’ve been able to get to that is getting a JH Audio Bluetooth for my Lola IEM’s. You’ll be into a fair amount of money but man... the sound is comparable to my Audeze cans.





clerkpalmer said:


> I suspect we will get there eventually.  I am guessing that right now the issue is that we need LDAC support in TWS and so far no one has done it.  Has to be tied to either battery drain or chipset size because even Sony left it out.  Presumably, higher end DAC/AMPs may require more power and space too.  I have to believe an innovator like Audeze has something cooking in this space.  TWS isine 20?


oh man that would rule (Audeze).  I never spent more than $300 on headphones until i happened to be in a sound store and listened to LCD-2s. I listened to music for hours every night on them


----------



## clerkpalmer

voicemaster said:


> Does the passthrough function can be turned on without activating the ANC?



yes pass through does not use ANC. How do you think they compare to the MiFo? I noticed they raised the price on the MiFo.


----------



## voicemaster

clerkpalmer said:


> yes pass through does not use ANC. How do you think they compare to the MiFo? I noticed they raised the price on the MiFo.


They both fit me well, 1more of course stick out more. The mifo07 case is the smallest case I've seen other than the original airpods, while the 1more is bigger, but considering the size of the earbuds, it is actually pretty small (about the same case size as t1x). In term of sound, I would give it to mifo07, but I only listened to 1more for only 10 minutes so I can't confirmed it right now.


----------



## chinmie

BigZ12 said:


> Anyone tried these? They check all the boxes, with ANC, ambient mode, AAC/AptX, 10h battery and they look kinda cool.
> Of course, they don't send to Norway



that logo though... for common folks who look at them, they might assume i was wearing a typo ridden cheap TWS   . it's similar to the upcoming Google buds in form, so i might check that one out because it looks more subdued



atahanuz said:


> How good is the sound quality of Sony WF XM3 ? Equivalent of which wired earphone ?



i like it a lot. nice and pleasantly tuned, and has EQ to shape it more a bit. i turn down the extra bass down a couple of notch, but that's it. i leave the rest of the EQ untouched. 



atahanuz said:


> I would prefer a $1000 TOTL TWS iem.  Because these devices are so easy to carry and use. And unlike traditional IEMs, no need for a dac, amp and cable. Just buy a TWS IEM and use it with your smartphone, endgame !
> 
> If someone makes a TWS IEM sounding good as current audiophile wired earphones that can be revolutionary.



the only concern for buying TWS ia the longevity.. the battery would surely must be replaced, and the electronics inside would become obselete. to put it in example, most of the earlier 200 usd and up - TWS from a few years a go like the Earin, Bragi, etc, they do have a nice tech even by today's standard, but the sound is surpassed even by the 20usd chifis..and worst of all, the battery life is decreasing and the companies might not be around anymore to provide services 

so for me personally, for 300 usd above, i would still put my money on detachable IEMs and use replaceable BT dongles. 



erockg said:


> If these are as good as they sound, I'm all in: https://www.earmicro.com/ They're supposed to have Bragi OS on them.  Those were some of my all-time favorite true wireless earbuds.  I'm sure they'll go on sale too.  Seems Klipsch always has sales.



this looks great! and the features on the list are also seems useful. the only question is how much would they cost?


----------



## clerkpalmer

Luke Skywalker said:


> oh man that would rule (Audeze).  I never spent more than $300 on headphones until i happened to be in a sound store and listened to LCD-2s. I listened to music for hours every night on them


Me neither until I discovered Audeze l. Went from isine10 to isine20 to mobius to lcd 2 classic and now the i3. Slippery slope for sure.


----------



## hifi80sman

chinmie said:


> that logo though... for common folks who look at them, they might assume i was wearing a typo ridden cheap TWS   . it's similar to the upcoming Google buds in form, so i might check that one out because it looks more subdued
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I think those are the $600 TWS' Klipsch is releasing.  So, just a drop in the bucket.


----------



## clerkpalmer

mainstream review of the 1more. This is pretty harsh actually. I can’t remember seeing PC Mag go that low. FWIW, I don’t find them to be bright. 

https://www.pcmag.com/reviews/1more-true-wireless-anc-in-ear-headphones-ehd9001ta


----------



## chinmie

hifi80sman said:


> I think those are the $600 TWS' Klipsch is releasing.  So, just a drop in the bucket.



just a thing to admire, then


----------



## clerkpalmer

atahanuz said:


> We will definetly get there. Probably in 5 years or even less. Wireless headphones will reach the quality of wired ones so* the entire amplifier, cable etc. industries will die. *Because a wireless standalone headphone will be able to perform equally or better than them !


I agree with this. It’s only a matter of time.


----------



## clerkpalmer

erockg said:


> If these are as good as they seem, I'm all in: https://www.earmicro.com/ They're supposed to have Bragi OS on them.  Those were some of my all-time favorite true wireless earbuds.  I'm sure they'll go on sale too.  Seems Klipsch always has sales.


Loved my Bragi dash. Glad they are still in business. Awesome piece of engineering.


----------



## Luke Skywalker

clerkpalmer said:


> Me neither until I discovered Audeze l. Went from isine10 to isine20 to mobius to lcd 2 classic and now the i3. Slippery slope for sure.


Wow I hasn’t seen the i3’s.  I bet they sound amazing huh?  I just dropped some loot on some JH Lola’s otherwise I’d probably get ‘em.  Nice that they come with the Bluetooth cable too - had to buy that separately from JH


----------



## cwill (Jan 31, 2020)

I love the SSK so much that I just overpaid for a new 2nd pair from the last remaining vendor stock online because I wouldn't know what to do if mine broke. I wish I could have found them cheaper, but after trying pretty much everything else, they're worth it to me and nothing else compares. Grab 'em while you can boys. https://www.supenc.com/home/41114-s...-movie-games.html?search_query=Bt03&results=1


----------



## clerkpalmer

Quiet night here ... did anyone get in on the drop panda?


----------



## Caipirina (Jan 31, 2020)

clerkpalmer said:


> Quiet night here ... did anyone get in on the drop panda?





???

AliExpress Sale ends in 3.5h, anyone got anything good?

Finally wiggled through and ordered the TempoTec V1A (DAP) for 86$ after coupons. Could apply pretty much everything incl. 6$ select  

Want to use mainly as a BT player for my TWS ... curious about HibyOS .. hoping it will be easier to wade through half a TB of music files ... found that kinda impossible with other high storage players where I end up scrolling down the same long alphabetical list ...
Now, I guess they will not send out before Feb 3 .. so I can STILL change my mind on those


----------



## clerkpalmer

Glad someone is awake. Mass drop Panda BT over ears based on the Oppo PM3. Early reviews are very positive.  Selling on indiegogo. I jumped in last night.


----------



## erockg

Listening to the 1More ANC right now.  ANC is weak.  Echo Buds, Sony and APP blow them away.


----------



## erockg

erockg said:


> Listening to the 1More ANC right now.  ANC is weak.  Echo Buds, Sony and APP blow them away.


I swear someone said a firmware update is due 2/2...


----------



## Caipirina

clerkpalmer said:


> Glad someone is awake. Mass drop Panda BT over ears based on the Oppo PM3. Early reviews are very positive.  Selling on indiegogo. I jumped in last night.



Tried MassDrop only once, shipping & customs duty to Germany back then ate up the savings .. so, not trying that anymore ... 

And hey, 10:15AM in hot & humid Sri Lanka now, already did 15K run with my Bose SSF (still working, nice full bass, no Thud™) and now listening to some loungy stuff on my Whizzer B6, which wonderfully fit like ear plugs and sound very nice (and having paid only 35$ while  they are usually around 70$ makes the sound extra sweet)


----------



## Caipirina

erockg said:


> Listening to the 1More ANC right now.  ANC is weak.  Echo Buds, Sony and APP blow them away.



Thanks everyone for saving me 200$


----------



## erockg

clerkpalmer said:


> Loved my Bragi dash. Glad they are still in business. Awesome piece of engineering.


Agreed.  Bragi is just a software company now.  They sold their hardware business to E-use.  https://support.e-use.com/hc/en-us?mobile_site=true


----------



## erockg (Jan 31, 2020)

Caipirina said:


> Thanks everyone for saving me 200$


Welcome.  I should charge commission 

Soundstage is nice.  Going to mess with tips.  See if anything helps.


----------



## clerkpalmer

Caipirina said:


> Tried MassDrop only once, shipping & customs duty to Germany back then ate up the savings .. so, not trying that anymore ...
> 
> And hey, 10:15AM in hot & humid Sri Lanka now, already did 15K run with my Bose SSF (still working, nice full bass, no Thud™) and now listening to some loungy stuff on my Whizzer B6, which wonderfully fit like ear plugs and sound very nice (and having paid only 35$ while  they are usually around 70$ makes the sound extra sweet)


Impressive morning. 1153 pm here. I’m off to bed. More tws tomorrow.


----------



## clerkpalmer

erockg said:


> I swear someone said a firmware update is due 2/2...


That is what the paper in the shipping box said.


----------



## assassin10000

Caipirina said:


> did 15K run with my Bose SSF (still working, nice full bass, no Thud™)



Cool. I'd hit the pins every couple months with the alcohol and toothpick trick. 



Caipirina said:


> Thanks everyone for saving me 200$



Hahahaha. Only so you can try 10 more cheap TWS.



erockg said:


> Welcome.  I should charge commission



With how many he's tested... I'd call it a wash.




Moving on, anyone try these Picun W5? Not sure if it's an exact copy of the Tiso i5 or an interior one.

https://m.aliexpress.com/item/4000584644345.html


----------



## Odioer (Feb 1, 2020)

cwill said:


> I love the SSK so much that I just overpaid for a new 2nd pair from the last remaining vendor stock online because I wouldn't know what to do if mine broke. I wish I could have found them cheaper, but after trying pretty much everything else, they're worth it to me and nothing else compares. Grab 'em while you can boys. https://www.supenc.com/home/41114-s...-movie-games.html?search_query=Bt03&results=1


I feel you. Last night my mom dropped the left earpiece to the floor, I caught it as it bounced almost a feet back up. My heart ached. They work fine though. Thank god. Anyhow I feel better for the build quality now as the fall was quite hard.
I had been experiencing that whenever I push on the right earbud the music just stops until I release the pressure, like the diaphragm pushing back on some loose connection, this was though happening before the drop. Anyone experience the same?


----------



## Dcell7

atahanuz said:


> We will definetly get there. Probably in 5 years or even less. Wireless headphones will reach the quality of wired ones so* the entire amplifier, cable etc. industries will die. *Because a wireless standalone headphone will be able to perform equally or better than them !



but what are you going to do with your $1000 tws when the batteries deteriorate because of extensive use and eventually die ?


----------



## voicemaster

So I've been listening through my newly acquired 1more ANC. The sound has opened up a little bit and the initial harshness on the treble has been subdued a little bit. The bass is pretty tight and not bloated at all, but it can definitely rumble and has enough heft if the song calls for it. The mid is on the thin side, but not overly thin (comparable to T1X's mid). Soundstage is pretty wide, wider than T1X and comparable to mifo07. The sound is kinda similar to T1X with bass EQ on. All testing/listening done with ANC turned off.
Fit is great for me, the tips and wings that came with it fit me perfectly. I tried to move jaw and the seal is solid for my ears. Built quality is excellent, the plastic on the earbuds feels premium and solid. The case is much smaller than I thought it would be. It is more ergonomic than t1x case and considering of how big the earbuds are, the case is actually pretty small. Build quality is also excellent.
If you just want sound quality and you don't care about ANC and passthrough feature, you can just get Fiil T1X.


----------



## voicemaster

Dcell7 said:


> but what are you going to do with your $1000 tws when the batteries deteriorate because of extensive use and eventually die ?



The samsung galaxy buds's battery can be replaced pretty easily.


----------



## JayX2A

I have recently had the B&O E8 2.0 and now the Jabra 75t. 

The sound quality from the E8 is better but lacks a bit of punch. The 75t have a much deeper bass but the rest is not as good. 

E8s are larger and the touch controls a a little bit too sensitive. They do seem to cut out a bit more noise than the Jabra. 

The E8 3.0 is on its way so it will be interesting to see what they are like. 

These are just my commuter pair of buds so I’m keeping the 75t as they are smaller, blend in a bit more and I am a bit of a bass fan.


----------



## Sam L

atahanuz said:


> How good is the sound quality of Sony WF XM3 ? Equivalent of which wired earphone ?


Sadly if you've been building a collection of IEMs, then none of the tws offerings will likely be equivalent to anything you have. I listed my most commonly used IEMs recently and the Sony's tws xm3 doesn't match any of them in SQ. The xm3 is in my top 5 fav tws earphones.


----------



## Caipirina

assassin10000 said:


> Cool. I'd hit the pins every couple months with the alcohol and toothpick trick.



Been doing that, so far all good. But still battery drain when I leave them un-monitored, so, charging the night before with lid open so I can see the lights. 



assassin10000 said:


> Hahahaha. Only so you can try 10 more cheap TWS.



Yeah, I like my many little play-buds ... unlike what someone said before, if only there was a 1000$ TOTL ... i like having many different for different sounds, shapes, occasions, satisfying hoarding needs ... @Bartig knows what I am talking about


----------



## Odioer

Caipirina said:


> Been doing that, so far all good. But still battery drain when I leave them un-monitored, so, charging the night before with lid open so I can see the lights.
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah, I like my many little play-buds ... unlike what someone said before, if only there was a 1000$ TOTL ... i like having many different for different sounds, shapes, occasions, satisfying hoarding needs ... @Bartig knows what I am talking about


I think everyone online here knows what you are taking about


----------



## bronco1015

Toom said:


> Seeking some advice on how to maximise battery length with the Senn MTWs - am loving the SQ, but the charging case is a complete mystery to me as it seems to actually make the buds discharge faster than the speed of What.


The trick i've found with these is constant use seems to mitigate this problem, but also if they do get to a point where they won't shut off because case is dead but buds aren't, i'll put them in pairing mode, place them in the case and then they shut off. I've confirmed this by pulling them back out of the case and they power up. Been using these almost exclusively during this aweful process of a move that i'm going through currently, while taking advantage of Amazon's 90 day trial of Amazon Music HD, and it's been awesome except the UI of the app is pretty aweful imo. I mention that to say that battery life hasn't taken a hit like i wondered if it would, as these usually just get used with spotify these days as i lost my SD card. I haven't charged the case since wed and i've used them for like 8 hours in total since last charge. Fwiw, i know the specs say 12 hours with case and buds combined, but i've always been able to get just a hair past 5 hrs on 1 charge at 65-70% volume. YMMV of course, but these little tricks have helped over the year plus i've owned them.


----------



## gocam

Just received the Mifo o7s, to join the Bowmaker SiFi, Mavin  Air-Xi and the Nuarl 6P's I've been trying out.

I wanted to check with folks here to see if I just have a defective unit - they are absolutely terrible at clipping, in particular if you listen to Soulwax "Conditions of a Shared Belief" on FROM DEEWEE, 02:45 onwards is almost constant abrasive clipping on each earbud. Is this so for other owners here ? I've never heard such clipping on any other device I've tried. Same track has no problems with my other sets.

Is this the problem that is addressed with mythical firmware one can tantalizing see here :  http://www.mifo.hk/appdwon/ but not actually install without a baidu account ?

The o7s are an absolutely fantastic fit, and when not clipping sound good. But, crikey.


----------



## Firevortex

clerkpalmer said:


> mainstream review of the 1more. This is pretty harsh actually. I can’t remember seeing PC Mag go that low. FWIW, I don’t find them to be bright.
> https://www.pcmag.com/reviews/1more-true-wireless-anc-in-ear-headphones-ehd9001ta



from your link:


> The ANC doesn't seem to change the sound signature noticeably.



quite a few mentioned ANC changed the sound (thus the firmware fix). i can understand if ANC isn't as strong as others on the market but saying they are bright and no sound signature change is utter bs. 

not to mention he recommend jabra elite 75t which has the exact same drivers as the 65t over it because of cheaper price and SQ just sound like he didn't even give the 1more a chance from the start or spent 6mins on it listening to 2 tracks. Also every other review mentioned the 1more sounded better then the APP but has weaker ANC.


----------



## Firevortex

gocam said:


> Just received the Mifo o7s, to join the Bowmaker SiFi, Mavin  Air-Xi and the Nuarl 6P's I've been trying out.
> 
> I wanted to check with folks here to see if I just have a defective unit - they are absolutely terrible at clipping, in particular if you listen to Soulwax "Conditions of a Shared Belief" on FROM DEEWEE, 02:45 onwards is almost constant abrasive clipping on each earbud. Is this so for other owners here ? I've never heard such clipping on any other device I've tried. Same track has no problems with my other sets.
> 
> ...



would be interested in hearing how the O7s compare to the Nuarl N6ps


----------



## Punkyyy (Feb 1, 2020)

Hey guys, after getting many IEMs that have been recommended on this forum, I must say most of them have been super good. This time, I am interested in getting a pair of in ear tws. Now I've been searching on and on and just can't seem to make a decision.
So far I've looked into these as my budget is somewhere in the range of 40 to $50 max
Anker soundcore liberty neo
Mpow t5
Tronsmart spunky beat
Haylou gt1 plus
Anker soundcore life p2
I listen to pretty much every genre and am open to any sound signature except for piercing treble...that's a no no
Have I overlooked some pairs here? All I want is great sound quality on a budget, these will be used for sports and cycling mostly, don't care about other features


----------



## RobinFood

I loved my spinfit cp350, they are hands down the most comfortable silicone tips I ever had, but I didn't like the isolation sometimes. They have a slightly oval shape and when it is not aligned it doesn't seal properly.
I was going to buy some Mandarin hybrid foam tips, but being cheap I decided to experiment stuffing them with different foams I had putting around.

Here they are with some de-cored medium Shure Olive tips. They are great. The Shure foam expands quicker than earplug foam or comply foam. You don't have to crush them as the silicone tips does the work for you. Isolation is great every time now.


----------



## Caipirina

Punkyyy said:


> Hey guys, after getting many IEMs that have been recommended on this forum, I must say most of them have been super good. This time, I am interested in getting a pair of in ear tws. Now I've been searching on and on and just can't seem to make a decision.
> So far I've looked into these as my budget is somewhere in the range of 40 to $50 max
> Anker soundcore liberty neo
> Mpow t5
> ...



out of those listed I’d take the Spunky Beats. The first 2 on your list are lovely, but more bulky. The last 2 I have not tried. 

ppl will mention the Fiil T1X, but good luck getting them in Croatia  they appear often on sales on Amazon US. 

Start with the Spunky Beat and then get hooked, order more.


----------



## BigZ12

Caipirina said:


> ppl will mention the Fiil T1X, but good luck getting them in Croatia  they appear often on sales on Amazon US.
> Start with the Spunky Beat and then get hooked, order more.


You can get the Fiil T1X at Geekbuying and Gearbest. I'm in Norway, so I don't find it interesting because of tax and toll handling will make them very expensive. (25% tax, and $20 in toll handling for everything over NOK 350 ($38)). Maybe it's cheaper in Croatia?
I agree that, besides the very sensitive touch controls, the Spunky Beat is a safe buy. They sound very good for the price, and the fit is also fantastic. I woke up this morning with the buds still in my ears.


----------



## Caipirina

BigZ12 said:


> You can get the Fiil T1X at Geekbuying and Gearbest. I'm in Norway, so I don't find it interesting because of tax and toll handling will make them very expensive. (25% tax, and $20 in toll handling for everything over NOK 350 ($38)). Maybe it's cheaper in Croatia?
> I agree that, besides the very sensitive touch controls, the Spunky Beat is a safe buy. They sound very good for the price, and the fit is also fantastic. I woke up this morning with the buds still in my ears.


You can also get the Fill on AE, but at 70$ they are not interesting. 
Spunkies as sleep buds. What happens when the battery runs out? Annoying beeps, voice?


----------



## voicemaster

gocam said:


> Just received the Mifo o7s, to join the Bowmaker SiFi, Mavin  Air-Xi and the Nuarl 6P's I've been trying out.
> 
> I wanted to check with folks here to see if I just have a defective unit - they are absolutely terrible at clipping, in particular if you listen to Soulwax "Conditions of a Shared Belief" on FROM DEEWEE, 02:45 onwards is almost constant abrasive clipping on each earbud. Is this so for other owners here ? I've never heard such clipping on any other device I've tried. Same track has no problems with my other sets.
> 
> ...



Did you play it with max volume? You can try to turn it down a little on that particular song. And since the bass is very tight one, you will always feel the need to turn it up especially in bass heavy song hence the clipping. As I have said earlier, if you like bass heavy songs, stay away from mifo07. It is best for acoustic type of music.


----------



## vaaccess

voicemaster said:


> Did you play it with max volume? You can try to turn it down a little on that particular song. And since the bass is very tight one, you will always feel the need to turn it up especially in bass heavy song hence the clipping. As I have said earlier, if you like bass heavy songs, stay away from mifo07. It is best for acoustic type of music.





gocam said:


> Just received the Mifo o7s, to join the Bowmaker SiFi, Mavin  Air-Xi and the Nuarl 6P's I've been trying out.
> 
> I wanted to check with folks here to see if I just have a defective unit - they are absolutely terrible at clipping, in particular if you listen to Soulwax "Conditions of a Shared Belief" on FROM DEEWEE, 02:45 onwards is almost constant abrasive clipping on each earbud. Is this so for other owners here ? I've never heard such clipping on any other device I've tried. Same track has no problems with my other sets.
> 
> ...



I am using the Misodiko TWS-Pro tips for this reason. The improved isolation provides a bump to the bass AND increases the volume in the ear. This basically means I have no reason to turn it up to full volume and therefore have zero clipping.

but would agree, if you are looking for something with a lot of heavy bass, these won’t do it. That said, I love the purity of studio monitor style sound, so I love these immensely...particularly with foam tips!


----------



## vladzakhar

gocam said:


> Just received the Mifo o7s, to join the Bowmaker SiFi, Mavin  Air-Xi and the Nuarl 6P's I've been trying out.
> 
> I wanted to check with folks here to see if I just have a defective unit - they are absolutely terrible at clipping, in particular if you listen to Soulwax "Conditions of a Shared Belief" on FROM DEEWEE, 02:45 onwards is almost constant abrasive clipping on each earbud. Is this so for other owners here ? I've never heard such clipping on any other device I've tried. Same track has no problems with my other sets.
> 
> ...



On the verge to order Mifo 07's. How's the sound compare to Nuarl 6n pro?


----------



## BigZ12

Caipirina said:


> You can also get the Fill on AE, but at 70$ they are not interesting.
> Spunkies as sleep buds. What happens when the battery runs out? Annoying beeps, voice?


If there was, I slept through it


----------



## Bartig

gocam said:


> Just received the Mifo o7s, to join the Bowmaker SiFi, Mavin  Air-Xi and the Nuarl 6P's I've been trying out.
> 
> I wanted to check with folks here to see if I just have a defective unit - they are absolutely terrible at clipping, in particular if you listen to Soulwax "Conditions of a Shared Belief" on FROM DEEWEE, 02:45 onwards is almost constant abrasive clipping on each earbud. Is this so for other owners here ? I've never heard such clipping on any other device I've tried. Same track has no problems with my other sets.
> 
> ...


Wow, that's a thing I haven't heard about the Mifo O7 before. Help me, what was this clipping again?

Meanwhile... I received the Geekfly G8 TWS, which I ordered a few weeks ago. An interesting $100 TWS with three different sound modes. One BA+DD setting, one hybrid setting and even a Dynamic + Piezoelectric ceramics mode!

Very promising... but the touch controls are so horrible, it's IMPOSSIBLE to switch between the sound modes. Reached out to Penon Audio thus...


----------



## Bartig

One more thing... here's my review of the Alien Secret QCC010. Never mind the name, this is a very pleasant surprise.


----------



## clerkpalmer

Fresh off my 1more disappointment, looking at the track air + or MiFo 07 for 1 day amazon delivery. Any opinions?


vladzakhar said:


> On the verge to order Mifo 07's. How's the sound compare to Nuarl 6n pro?


Subscribed. Really interested in whether mifo has class leading sq because the fit and form factor looks much better. Still irked they are up to 179 on amazon. What.


----------



## SilverEars (Feb 2, 2020)

I really don't know weather this belongs in APP thread or here as this should be general information.

The other day when I was at the gym I had my phone sitting across the large workout area, and I was pretty far out from the phone with the APP connected to the phone.  First of all, I was surprised that the wireless connection wasn't breaking up at such a distance (not surprising since there wasn't any major obstruction like a wall in between), but what I really noticed was the quality of the audio signal at such a distance.  The weak wireless signal definitely affected the frequency response of the sound outputted by the APP, and seemed weaker fidelity.  This tells me that wireless signal strength has affect on fidelity, not just on connection, but also even when signal is uninterrupted.  I'm pretty convinced now that there is no way wireless will ever match wired signal.

First thing that we would argue is that it's digital transmission, but it seems digital transmission signal strength affects analog audio output.

Another issue I've been having is one side of my ear's concha not covering up the sensor, in which this sensor causes the ANC to kick-in.  I have to pull it out and place it right for ANC to kick-in.  I wonder if this is something that causes differences in ANC opinions?  It's obvious when it's on or not.  I don't have issue with other iem sensors, but Apple's placement of this sensor is awkward.


----------



## erockg

erockg said:


> Welcome.  I should charge commission


Game over.  Returned the 1More ANC.  Hard to get a great deal without Comply tips.  ANC is weak.  Not worth $199 by far.  Sound is good but they never feel secure when using controls.  Echo Buds blow them away in comparison, especially at $89 right now.  And my Libratone Track Air+ are great too.


----------



## jasonb

So what's the consensus on the Lypertec Tevi? I don't like a ton of mid-bass, and tend to like a slightly bright detailed sound. I've been finding my Galaxy Buds to be lacking in detail and clarity. Tried the Anker Liberty Air 2 and after a few days had to return them because they just don't fit me well.


----------



## clerkpalmer

erockg said:


> Game over.  Returned the 1More ANC.  Hard to get a great deal without Comply tips.  ANC is weak.  Not worth $199 by far.  Sound is good but they never feel secure when using controls.  Echo Buds blow them away in comparison, especially at $89 right now.  And my Libratone Track Air+ are great too.


Do the libratone sound better?


----------



## Bhelpoori

SilverEars said:


> I really don't know weather this belongs in APP thread or here as this should be general information.
> 
> The other day when I was at the gym I had my phone sitting across the large workout area, and I was pretty far out from the phone with the APP connected to the phone.  First of all, I was surprised that the wireless connection wasn't breaking up at such a distance (not surprising since there wasn't any major obstruction like a wall in between), but what I really noticed was the quality of the audio signal at such a distance.  The weak wireless signal definitely affected the frequency response of the sound outputted by the APP, and seemed weaker fidelity.  This tells me that wireless signal strength has affect on fidelity, not just on connection, but also even when signal is uninterrupted.  I'm pretty convinced now that there is no way wireless will ever match wired signal.
> 
> ...


What's happening here is that the Bluetooth signal strength is being fed back to the audio encoder and it is encoding at a lower rate as the signal strength drops. This is because the OS has made a choice to keep the music going at a lower rate rather than having it cut out. In Android you have some control over this for some codecs (e.g. LDAC) but on Apple you have no control over this, which is probably sensible given that most of the time you'd rather hear something than nothing.


----------



## SilverEars (Feb 2, 2020)

jasonb said:


> So what's the consensus on the Lypertec Tevi? I don't like a ton of mid-bass, and tend to like a slightly bright detailed sound. I've been finding my Galaxy Buds to be lacking in detail and clarity. Tried the Anker Liberty Air 2 and after a few days had to return them because they just don't fit me well.


No, more like sub-bass emphasis.  I think it's a fairly good tuning for a TWS.  It could sound on the dark side up top for most people.  If you are the type of person that prefers a lot of treble, it's not for you.


----------



## SilverEars (Feb 2, 2020)

Bhelpoori said:


> What's happening here is that the Bluetooth signal strength is being fed back to the audio encoder and it is encoding at a lower rate as the signal strength drops. This is because the OS has made a choice to keep the music going at a lower rate rather than having it cut out. In Android you have some control over this for some codecs (e.g. LDAC) but on Apple you have no control over this, which is probably sensible given that most of the time you'd rather hear something than nothing.


I'm actually using Android, but that could be a possibility.  Maybe it went from AAC to SBC due to low signal strength.


----------



## vaaccess (Feb 2, 2020)

gocam said:


> Just received the Mifo o7s, to join the Bowmaker SiFi, Mavin  Air-Xi and the Nuarl 6P's I've been trying out.
> 
> I wanted to check with folks here to see if I just have a defective unit - they are absolutely terrible at clipping, in particular if you listen to Soulwax "Conditions of a Shared Belief" on FROM DEEWEE, 02:45 onwards is almost constant abrasive clipping on each earbud. Is this so for other owners here ? I've never heard such clipping on any other device I've tried. Same track has no problems with my other sets.
> 
> ...



I took a listen to that song. I didn’t appreciate a difference listening on the mifo o7 vs my Klipsch X11i Wired IEMs.
That said, to me, that song has some artificial sounds that just don’t sound good. I mean I enjoyed the song, but felt that the way it was recorded or mastered or whatever was just off a bit.

PS: it was weird not getting any email alerts while this site was being upgraded. At first I thought something was wrong with my phone not getting emails!


----------



## clerkpalmer

erockg said:


> Game over.  Returned the 1More ANC.  Hard to get a great deal without Comply tips.  ANC is weak.  Not worth $199 by far.  Sound is good but they never feel secure when using controls.  Echo Buds blow them away in comparison, especially at $89 right now.  And my Libratone Track Air+ are great too.


I can not describe in words how disappointed I am in these 1more ANC.  

Looking at 1mores website I do not see anything about a return policy. Did you buy from 1more or Amazon. I’m gonna be super bummed if I cannot return them. I guess someone will take them off my hands on eBay maybe since they are sold out


----------



## Bhelpoori

SilverEars said:


> I'm actually using Android, but that could be a possibility.  Maybe it went from AAC to SBC due to low signal strength.


Possibly but more likely just ratcheted the codec down from 224 to say 128kb/s. 

Also, I've found my APPs are  better signal strength vs sound wise on my Apple device against my Android device, and have some odd strangeness with my Android device though I'm betting that's the device not the APP. They always lock to 256kb/s on my iPad Pro for example. I haven't been bothered to get the debugger out to see what is really going on....


----------



## SilverEars

Bhelpoori said:


> Possibly but more likely just ratcheted the codec down from 224 to say 128kb/s.
> 
> Also, I've found my APPs are  better signal strength vs sound wise on my Apple device against my Android device, and have some odd strangeness with my Android device though I'm betting that's the device not the APP. They always lock to 256kb/s on my iPad Pro for example. I haven't been bothered to get the debugger out to see what is really going on....


I don't know much about how the chips varies the bit-rate.  Are there fixed points of bit-rate that get changed or is it dynamic with possible minute variations at any instant in time?

I found this chart online, but I thought SBC goes down even lower?




Speaking of charts, here another interesting one I just ran into.  There is dependency on phone's circuitry on latency of audio.


----------



## Bhelpoori

SilverEars said:


> I don't know much about how the chips varies the bit-rate.  Are there fixed points of bit-rate that get changed or is it dynamic with possible minute variations at any instant in time?
> 
> I found this chart online, but I thought SBC goes down even lower?
> 
> ...


Actually it is the OS/Drivers that determine what to do with adapting the rate and how that works, and as you can see it also codec dependent. This is actually a very complex area especially when you combine it with video, networks and radio...

On the latency side, this is mostly just a codec/codec parameter test/driver test normally. I've no clue why the Huawei is exceptional on everything or why there's so much variation in some of the tests e.g. AAC on OnePlus6T. >500ms (aka >1/2 second delay) is very strange and something else is happening to cause that.


----------



## Francesco Montanari (Feb 2, 2020)

gocam said:


> Just received the Mifo o7s, to join the Bowmaker SiFi, Mavin  Air-Xi and the Nuarl 6P's I've been trying out.
> 
> I wanted to check with folks here to see if I just have a defective unit - they are absolutely terrible at clipping, in particular if you listen to Soulwax "Conditions of a Shared Belief" on FROM DEEWEE, 02:45 onwards is almost constant abrasive clipping on each earbud. Is this so for other owners here ? I've never heard such clipping on any other device I've tried. Same track has no problems with my other sets.
> 
> ...





vaaccess said:


> I took a listen to that song. I didn’t appreciate a difference listening on the mifo o7 vs my Klipsch X11i Wired IEMs.
> That said, to me, that song has some artificial sounds that just don’t sound good. I mean I enjoyed the song, but felt that the way it was recorded or mastered or whatever was just off a bit.
> 
> PS: it was weird not getting any email alerts while this site was being upgraded. At first I thought something was wrong with my phone not getting emails!




Ok i tried the song with my pair and i didnt notice any clipping.

BTW... if someone want to update I can share with you the package so you don't need to have a baidu account. I also translated the folder to make it easier.

You simply have to follow the video

http://bit.ly/37TuU4R


----------



## vaaccess

Francesco Montanari said:


> Ok i tried the song with my pair and i didnt notice any clipping.
> 
> BTW... if someone want to update I can share with you the package so you don't need to have a baidu account. I also translated the folder to make it easier.
> 
> You simply have to follow the video



Can you share what the benefits of the upgrade are?


----------



## jasonb (Feb 2, 2020)

SilverEars said:


> No, more like sub-bass emphasis.  I think it's a fairly good tuning for a TWS.  It could sound on the dark side up top for most people.  If you are the type of person that prefers a lot of treble, it's not for you.



Thanks for linking that. It's frequency response isn't that much different than the Galaxy Buds. I got my OnePlus Bullets Wireless to sound good enough with Spinfit tips and a little EQ. I have a Brainwavz B200 coming that I plan to use with my ES100 and a short cable. I'm sure that'll be detailed and clear enough, but slightly less easy and portable.

It's crazy how much of a difference tips can make though.


----------



## Francesco Montanari

vaaccess said:


> Can you share what the benefits of the upgrade are?



I cannot find a changelog. I simply can say that for me the Mifo are the best buds togheter with L2P among my 12 pairs 

PS: who wants to buy FIIL  T1X from Italian Warehouse of Geekbuying can use my coupon TROVAPROMOT1X  64,99$

or TROVAPROMOT1X1 from HK warehouse 59,99$


----------



## vaaccess

Francesco Montanari said:


> I cannot find a changelog. I simply can say that for me the Mifo are the best buds togheter with L2P among my 12 pairs
> 
> PS: who wants to buy FIIL  T1X from Italian Warehouse of Geekbuying can use my coupon TROVAPROMOT1X  64,99$
> 
> or TROVAPROMOT1X1 from HK warehouse 59,99$



yeah. I love mine and returned the T1X. Pairing them with the Misodiko TWS Pro tips made them pretty perfect in my mind. The passive isolation is all I need, the only wish I have is for pass through, but not a huge deal!


----------



## voicemaster

clerkpalmer said:


> I can not describe in words how disappointed I am in these 1more ANC.
> 
> Looking at 1mores website I do not see anything about a return policy. Did you buy from 1more or Amazon. I’m gonna be super bummed if I cannot return them. I guess someone will take them off my hands on eBay maybe since they are sold out


I am probably the minority, but I like the sound of 1more lol. I don't use the ANC much tbh as I find it unnecessary for *me. *I am using the passthrough feature more tbh. And yes using the ANC, the sound changes. At ANC level 1, the mid and bass are bumped up a little bit, the high is reduced. When the ANC turned on, without music playing, you can still hear people talking, finger tapping, but sound like fan, coffee machine, engine noise is mostly reduced. At level 2, the mid and bass is bumped up even more and the high is reduced even further. I found that reducing the overall volume compensate the sound when ANC turned on. Without ANC, I say they sound great. Different tuning than the mifo07 where the mid is thicker which makes vocal sounds so good, while 1more has a more similar tuning to T1X imho. Mid is about the same slightly recessed, but still pronounced and also thinner (I have helped sound engineer doing mixing and they almost always cut around 200-400hz on vocal to bring more clarity thus make the vocal sounds thinner or less nasal?). Bass is punchy with good oomph as well. The high can be piercing ootb, but after using it for 5+ hours, it is about the same level as T1X. Soundstage and separation is better than T1X. 
Battery life is pretty good as well, but I rarely use the ANC so it might be slightly better. I used them around 5 hours straight connecting to my pc while watching youtube, listening to music and playing dota2 at volume level on my pc around 84 and max on youtube and my foobar. I checked after by connecting to my phone and both at around 40% battery life left. 
Case is excellent. Built quality is great both on the earbuds and case. Fit is also great for me, but like many have said before, they don't really feel tightly secure, but it actually is. The fit feels different than all of my other tws. Overall, I am pretty happy with mine (I am using it as I typed this review). Will be interesting to use the ANC feature when I am going on my vacation on the 19th (long haul flight) and also the battery life too.


----------



## stormwrx

clerkpalmer said:


> I can not describe in words how disappointed I am in these 1more ANC.
> 
> Looking at 1mores website I do not see anything about a return policy. Did you buy from 1more or Amazon. I’m gonna be super bummed if I cannot return them. I guess someone will take them off my hands on eBay maybe since they are sold out



The paper in the box promised a firmware update today, 2/2. Unless 1More delivers on the hype ASAP, I will likely return these as well. The sound is great with ANC off, but muddy with it activated. The touch controls on mine require banging more than tapping to switch ANC modes, so mine may be defective, in any event.


----------



## erockg

clerkpalmer said:


> Do the libratone sound better?



I think they’re flatter than the Echo but have a bass boost mode with a decent soundstage.  The fit, form factor, usb c, mild anc and Qi charging puts them over the top.


----------



## erockg

stormwrx said:


> The paper in the box promised a firmware update today, 2/2. Unless 1More delivers on the hype ASAP, I will likely return these as well. The sound is great with ANC off, but muddy with it activated. The touch controls on mine require banging more than tapping to switch ANC modes, so mine may be defective, in any event.



Very curious if they release an update that fixes the issues.


----------



## 13gsc13

Just ordered the FIIL T1X based on all the feedback on it
i need something for work just for my coffee breaks - take walks when weather is nice
hopefully I like them


----------



## erockg

erockg said:


> I think they’re flatter than the Echo but have a bass boost mode with a decent soundstage.  The fit, form factor, usb c, mild anc and Qi charging puts them over the top.


----------



## gocam

clerkpalmer said:


> Fresh off my 1more disappointment, looking at the track air + or MiFo 07 for 1 day amazon delivery. Any opinions?
> 
> Subscribed. Really interested in whether mifo has class leading sq because the fit and form factor looks much better. Still irked they are up to 179 on amazon. What.



I am very disappointed in the o7s after a day of close listening. If there is any meaningful bass, then it is going to sound metallic and potentially clip, regardless of the volume (see my example above), and after trying a variety of tips this does not change. I find the sound, for want of a better word, cold and metallic, clipped and digital, it's not a set that I enjoy spending time with musically, although it is comfortable. I listened to a variety of music, acoustic, indie rock, classical, ambient, dance, and all felt uninviting and uninvolving to me.

The Nuarl n6 pro, on the other hand, is outstanding. I can wear for extended period of time with the spinfit tips and I don't experiences sound fatigue like with the o7s. It is warm, an open soundstage, not bass heavy like the mavins, but capable at both low and high volumes.

So, that's my summary, keeping the mavins and the nuarls, o7s going back, going to try the track air+s


----------



## clerkpalmer

erockg said:


> Very curious if they release an update that fixes the issues.


As of 1pm et not yet.


----------



## gocam

gocam said:


> I am very disappointed in the o7s after a day of close listening. If there is any meaningful bass, then it is going to sound metallic and potentially clip, regardless of the volume (see my example above), and after trying a variety of tips this does not change. I find the sound, for want of a better word, cold and metallic, clipped and digital, it's not a set that I enjoy spending time with musically, although it is comfortable. I listened to a variety of music, acoustic, indie rock, classical, ambient, dance, and all felt uninviting and uninvolving to me.
> 
> The Nuarl n6 pro, on the other hand, is outstanding. I can wear for extended period of time with the spinfit tips and I don't experiences sound fatigue like with the o7s. It is warm, an open soundstage, not bass heavy like the mavins, but capable at both low and high volumes.
> 
> So, that's my summary, keeping the mavins and the nuarls, o7s going back, going to try the track air+s



Given the others feedback on the unit, makes me think I have a defective unit with old firmware perhaps? I may try replacing our applying the firmware update if I can access...


----------



## stormwrx

I decided to take the plunge and ordered the Cleer Ally Plus and will give impressions once they arrive next week. In messaging with the support person (who was very responsive and well-informed), I learned the following:

-The noise cancelling is hybrid, with both feedforward and feedback microphones, as well as a third microphone for calls.

-In addition to AptX, these support AAC

-The controls allow adjusting the volume, but not track skipping. Kinda sucks, but I can live with it. 

-No plans for an app at this point.


----------



## vaaccess

gocam said:


> I am very disappointed in the o7s after a day of close listening. If there is any meaningful bass, then it is going to sound metallic and potentially clip, regardless of the volume (see my example above), and after trying a variety of tips this does not change. I find the sound, for want of a better word, cold and metallic, clipped and digital, it's not a set that I enjoy spending time with musically, although it is comfortable. I listened to a variety of music, acoustic, indie rock, classical, ambient, dance, and all felt uninviting and uninvolving to me.
> 
> The Nuarl n6 pro, on the other hand, is outstanding. I can wear for extended period of time with the spinfit tips and I don't experiences sound fatigue like with the o7s. It is warm, an open soundstage, not bass heavy like the mavins, but capable at both low and high volumes.
> 
> So, that's my summary, keeping the mavins and the nuarls, o7s going back, going to try the track air+s



it’s interesting that you are hearing clipping in the bass, at any volume. I used the audio test site and have listened to songs with heavy bass and only appreciate clipping if I’m at max volume, something I’m hoping the firmware upgrade may address.

With the combination of personal sound preferences and potential for build variances and equipment differences driving the sound...it’s no wonder we are always debating and discussing in here.


----------



## cwill (Feb 2, 2020)

I truly don't understand anyone needing ANC. My buds seal well enough that if there is anything playing at any volume, I can't hear the outside world. To each their own of course. If you need it I'd love to hear what the benefit really is.


----------



## gocam

vaaccess said:


> it’s interesting that you are hearing clipping in the bass, at any volume. I used the audio test site and have listened to songs with heavy bass and only appreciate clipping if I’m at max volume, something I’m hoping the firmware upgrade may address.
> 
> With the combination of personal sound preferences and potential for build variances and equipment differences driving the sound...it’s no wonder we are always debating and discussing in here.



It has to be either a defective unit, or old firmware I think, the clipping is very noticeable at even relatively low volumes, when that is not the case for the same source and songs with all my other headsets.

I'll see if I can update or replace, and report back! I did search online at some point and I believe saw mention of at least another case that was rectified with firmware, but sounds like nobody here is experiencing that.

A question for those of you with good sounding units, did you get them from Amazon?


----------



## erockg (Feb 2, 2020)

stormwrx said:


> I decided to take the plunge and ordered the Cleer Ally Plus and will give impressions once they arrive next week. In messaging with the support person (who was very responsive and well-informed), I learned the following:
> 
> -The noise cancelling is hybrid, with both feedforward and feedback microphones, as well as a third microphone for calls.
> 
> ...


I ordered these too. Hopefully here in a week or so. We shall see if they are any good. I like the swipe up and down for volume, similar to the Bragi Dash pro. Hopefully it works well.  I do wish they had a Qi charging case.


----------



## erockg

cwill said:


> I truly don't understand anyone needing ANC. My buds seal well enough that if there is anything playing at any volume, I can't hear the outside world.


Sometimes ANC headphones block out things that passive isolation cannot.  That said, there are a lot of tw buds out there that do passive isolation quite well.


----------



## erockg

clerkpalmer said:


> I can not describe in words how disappointed I am in these 1more ANC.
> 
> Looking at 1mores website I do not see anything about a return policy. Did you buy from 1more or Amazon. I’m gonna be super bummed if I cannot return them. I guess someone will take them off my hands on eBay maybe since they are sold out



I bought mine from Amazon and already returned them at my local Amazon return center. Got my refund already. Kind of the only way I will do it these days unless I truly know the brand and I know that what I’m getting is going to be flawless. Some of these in the brands just aren’t there yet so everything is always a gamble. Amazon’s return policy is just amazing.

I have the Cleer Ally Plus coming soon so hopefully those destroy what I have so far.


----------



## jant71

cwill said:


> I truly don't understand anyone needing ANC. My buds seal well enough that if there is anything playing at any volume, I can't hear the outside world. To each their own of course. If you need it I'd love to hear what the benefit really is.



It will go above and beyond. Busy market/trading floor, big wind noise, airplane travel, near construction, etc. Some might not need more than the passive.


----------



## vaaccess

gocam said:


> It has to be either a defective unit, or old firmware I think, the clipping is very noticeable at even relatively low volumes, when that is not the case for the same source and songs with all my other headsets.
> 
> I'll see if I can update or replace, and report back! I did search online at some point and I believe saw mention of at least another case that was rectified with firmware, but sounds like nobody here is experiencing that.
> 
> A question for those of you with good sounding units, did you get them from Amazon?



yea, I got mine on Amazon sold by “YY Morul”.


----------



## clerkpalmer (Feb 2, 2020)

cwill said:


> I truly don't understand anyone needing ANC. My buds seal well enough that if there is anything playing at any volume, I can't hear the outside world. To each their own of course. If you need it I'd love to hear what the benefit really is.


ANC is completely different to me than passive isolation. Like apples and oranges. Even well sealing iems will sound awful on a plane. I don’t care how well they isolate. ANC takes care of that. ANC kills the hum and background noise at the gym for me.


----------



## gocam

vaaccess said:


> yea, I got mine on Amazon sold by “YY Morul”.



Hmm, mine came from mifo direct as the seller which makes you think that they'd be at least as updated. Perhaps not ?

G


----------



## vaaccess

gocam said:


> Hmm, mine came from mifo direct as the seller which makes you think that they'd be at least as updated. Perhaps not ?
> 
> G



who knows...

As a counter argument, I would expect the manufacturer to have more old stock than a reseller...

at least you’d hope they would take care of you if it was a direct sale........


----------



## voicemaster

erockg said:


> Sometimes ANC headphones block out things that passive isolation cannot.  That said, there are a lot of tw buds out there that do passive isolation quite well.


Yeah but why? With 1more, when no music is playing and ANC off, it barely block any noise unlike my T1X and mifo 07, but when the music is playing, I can hear faintly people talking and they need to talk pretty loudly too. Most other ambiance noises are blocked by the music.


----------



## erockg (Feb 2, 2020)

voicemaster said:


> Yeah but why? With 1more, when no music is playing and ANC off, it barely block any noise unlike my T1X and mifo 07, but when the music is playing, I can hear faintly people talking and they need to talk pretty loudly too. Most other ambiance noises are blocked by the music.


Those 1More headphones do not have a great seal.  If you don't have a great seal, deeper insertion, like the Echo Buds or others, ANC will not be able to work properly.  I put Comply foam tips on the 1More's and that did help, but at the end of the day, there are much better options.  Sometimes ANC does not block out voices well.  The Sony's and APP do better than others for sure.  When music is on, it always helps to drown out noise.  If you tried the AirPods Pro and the Sony ANC true wireless headphones, you'd understand.  I've had them both.  The Sonys just didn't fit my ears well.  A lot of people have this issue with them.  But the ANC was spot on.  And the AirPods pro's sound for music isn't as good as others.  I may revisit the APP because the form factor while traveling is just wonderful and they're easy to sleep with.  I used them on an airplane and they were very convenient.  If I do get them again, I'll splurge and get the black Colorware version


----------



## SilverEars (Feb 2, 2020)

cwill said:


> I truly don't understand anyone needing ANC. My buds seal well enough that if there is anything playing at any volume, I can't hear the outside world. To each their own of course. If you need it I'd love to hear what the benefit really is.


I'm a big proponent of ANC technology, and I used to think like that until I heard a good ANC in various environments including highly noisy environments like aircraft cabins and trains.  It makes sound much more coherent when background noise is reduced.  ANC is the best solution in those environments as passive isolation cannot reduce low frequency noises with seal all that well.

In noisy environments, signal to noise ratio is low as the noise masks the sounds coming out of your earphones.  If you reduce to the noise, backgrounds are blacker, and you won't have to increase volume to hear the sounds.  People gets into a habit of doing this when ANC wasn't used, but they don't really are conscious or think about it.  Because it has not been taken into consideration until the benefit of ANC is experienced.  They just wear their air or earpods with no seal, and increase the volume in the subway, and I bet that has caused damages to their hearing without knowing how high they raise the volume to get over the high ambient noise.

ANC increases fidelity.

Also the reason why I could give two poops about THX Panda.  Why would I want a wireless headphone that doesn't do ANC?  Don't need it.


----------



## voicemaster

erockg said:


> Those 1More headphones do not have a great seal.  If you don't have a great seal, deeper insertion, like the Echo Buds or others, ANC will not be able to work properly.  I put Comply foam tips on the 1More's and that did help, but at the end of the day, there are much better options.  Sometimes ANC does not block out voices well.  The Sony's and APP do better than others for sure.  When music is on, it always helps to drown out noise.  If you tried the AirPods Pro and the Sony ANC true wireless headphones, you'd understand.  I've had them both.  The Sonys just didn't fit my ears well.  A lot of people have this issue with them.  But the ANC was spot on.  And the AirPods pro's sound for music isn't as good as others.  I may revisit the APP because the form factor while traveling is just wonderful and they're easy to sleep with.  I used them on an airplane and they were very convenient.  If I do get them again, I'll splurge and get the black Colorware version


I have used my sony wh1000x and it does have better noise cancelling. I tried my friend's APP and funny enough the volume is abysmal low with both my android phone. And I hate iphone with a passion.


----------



## SilverEars

voicemaster said:


> I have used my sony wh1000x and it does have better noise cancelling. I tried my friend's APP and funny enough the volume is abysmal low with both my android phone. And I hate iphone with a passion.


I had an issue with APP volume being too low with Android, and I had to reconnect BT to get the propwr volume level.  On another APP, there was no such issue.


----------



## clerkpalmer

voicemaster said:


> I have used my sony wh1000x and it does have better noise cancelling. I tried my friend's APP and funny enough the volume is abysmal low with both my android phone. And I hate iphone with a passion.



there is a glitch in the APP that causes the volume to lower switching from android to iOS I’ve found. Sometimes they need to be repaired and the volume goes back up. It’s annoying and not sure what is causing it.

edit - silverears you beat me to it!


----------



## tma6

stormwrx said:


> I decided to take the plunge and ordered the Cleer Ally Plus and will give impressions once they arrive next week. In messaging with the support person (who was very responsive and well-informed), I learned the following:
> 
> -The noise cancelling is hybrid, with both feedforward and feedback microphones, as well as a third microphone for calls.
> 
> ...



Excited to hear your thoughts on these! Been eyeing them for a while.


----------



## Bartig

jasonb said:


> So what's the consensus on the Lypertec Tevi? I don't like a ton of mid-bass, and tend to like a slightly bright detailed sound. I've been finding my Galaxy Buds to be lacking in detail and clarity. Tried the Anker Liberty Air 2 and after a few days had to return them because they just don't fit me well.


Ditch the Tevi, the Fiil T1X is more balanced, with more forward and clear vocals and slightly better placement.


----------



## chinmie

cwill said:


> I truly don't understand anyone needing ANC. My buds seal well enough that if there is anything playing at any volume, I can't hear the outside world. To each their own of course. If you need it I'd love to hear what the benefit really is.





voicemaster said:


> Yeah but why? With 1more, when no music is playing and ANC off, it barely block any noise unlike my T1X and mifo 07, but when the music is playing, I can hear faintly people talking and they need to talk pretty loudly too. Most other ambiance noises are blocked by the music.



If the main idea is to block mid frequencies and up, then yes, you don't need ANC at all. Passive isolation is what works in that scenario.
But for low freq rumble, only ANC could do the job. Even the most well known passive blockers like the Etymotics can't do it...try them on a plane or train, and you will get great muffled human conversations around you, but you will get that rumbles, and your own heart beating in your ears. Also everytime you talk to someone, your own voice would sound overwhelming inside your head.
With good ANC, you could hear music in really low volume and still pick up the details, and can listen to important environmental noise cues around you.

Try toggling ANC on and off without playing any music, and listen to the changes in the low frequency. Then use it with ANC on for some time (still with no music) , and then slowly remove the earpiece from your ears, and feel those low freq creeps in as you remove it. You'll be surprised by how much low rumble sound present around you everyday, and we don't even realise it


----------



## voicemaster

chinmie said:


> If the main idea is to block mid frequencies and up, then yes, you don't need ANC at all. Passive isolation is what works in that scenario.
> But for low freq rumble, only ANC could do the job. Even the most well known passive blockers like the Etymotics can't do it...try them on a plane or train, and you will get great muffled human conversations around you, but you will get that rumbles, and your own heart beating in your ears. Also everytime you talk to someone, your own voice would sound overwhelming inside your head.
> With good ANC, you could hear music in really low volume and still pick up the details, and can listen to important environmental noise cues around you.
> 
> Try toggling ANC on and off without playing any music, and listen to the changes in the low frequency. Then use it with ANC on for some time (still with no music) , and then slowly remove the earpiece from your ears, and feel those low freq creeps in as you remove it. You'll be surprised by how much low rumble sound present around you everyday, and we don't even realise it


Then thats what 1more ANC does. It literally kills low freq while conversation, finger snapping and tapping on a table still hearable. This is of course with no music playing.


----------



## chinmie

voicemaster said:


> Then thats what 1more ANC does. It literally kills low freq while conversation, finger snapping and tapping on a table still hearable. This is of course with no music playing.



Now with music playing softly (or at max, in coversation level volume), try toggling the ANC on and off. Usually without ANC on, the lows would get clouded and blurred by the outside rumbles. With loud music that ANC effect would be less apparent, because the music already overpowers the ambient noise already..but that will not be healthy for the ears. I have a rather sensitive hearing..meaning loud noise would hurt my ears, so having ANC is a Godsend.

I haven't tried the 1more personally, but judging by experience, i think why people think it doesn't have good ANC is because of it has less passive isolation than what they normally use, not because of the ANC performance alone


----------



## turbobb (Feb 8, 2020)

So, I figured given the solid performers between $20-$50 are getting more plentiful, I wanted to see just how low one can go before the point of diminishing returns hit. Embracing my inner Brian Cashman (circa his 2018-2019 offseason steals - baseball reference for those who don't follow it), I wanted to see if I can pull off finding some gems scraping the bottom-of-the-barrel like he did. So we'll start all the way from the bottom (all prices USD)...

Coming in at $5.99 - https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0843Q7TV1
Not sure if intentional bait-and-switch or honest mistake but what I received was nothing like what was posted as the product pic here:


Based on the reviews, looks like it happened to three others as well.

As for the "incorrect" product I received, they're basically AirPods clones but heckuva lot bigger (pictured next to the real deal and AA battery thrown in for reference but I don't think my pics do justice to just how much bigger they feel/look especially when worn - lol):


Where do I even start? I mean look for $5.99, I'm honestly amazed it even works. If I squish them in my ears to form a perfect seal, the sound is actually decently clean sounding (keep in mind I'm considering the price here...) if a bit mid-forward and bass-light but without that seal, it's completely devoid of any bass and sounds like a cheap speaker playing inside a cardboard box. The button on each stalk do in fact work but quality is mediocre and I'll doubt they'll hold up in the long run.

Another pic with toothbrush head thrown in for size comparo: 

While my wife normally rolls her eyes and gives me the "That's niiiiice deeeear" look with each TWS she's seen me trying, she actually summarized it best for these:
"That's embarrassing to be seen wearing even around the house!"

Can't say I disagree in the least...  LOL

Next up ringing in at $9.99 - https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07YTFNF9W/

Despite the fact that it says by Unknown, I figured with Amazon Prime, I'd be safe giving these a shot. The quality on these are just so cheap feeling and the plastic is akin to those plastic green military soldiers some of us older folks grew up playing with. They are so crazy light that they are actually very comfy but while the sound is actually decent, it's devoid of bass despite me getting a good seal on 'em. One MUST also use the included wing tips else they simply will not charge in the case as it relies on the tips to apply some additional downward pressure. Bottom line - strike two...

Ok, maybe third time's the charm? Also at $9.99 - https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B083745164

Orighty, not gonna lie that I just jumped on these for that price since the white versions were going for 4 times the price ($39.99).

So... due to the awkward shape and extremely short stem, I simply can't get a good seal and still haven't found a tip that fits well. The stock ones are double-flanged and about 6.5mm long at the base and note the lip that extends over the stem in this pic:

From the brief moments I am able to angle them properly and get a temporary good seal, they actually sound pretty darn good! Just wish I could find the right tips (5.6mm nozzle but again it's the length that matters more) so am going to hang on to these for a bit until I can make a final call. However, for the price these are awesome bang for the buck with a very nice and compact case that even features a battery % read out:


Welp, that's a wrap for now as the others break the $20 barrier and I'm still testing a few of them... lol


----------



## Caipirina

turbobb said:


> So, I figured given the solid performers between $20-$50 are getting more plentiful, I wanted to see just how low one can go before the point of diminishing returns hit. Embracing my inner Brian Cashman (circa his 2018-2019 offseason steals - baseball reference for those who don't follow it), I wanted to see if I can pull off finding some gems scraping the bottom-of-the-barrel like he did. So we'll start all the way from the bottom (all prices USD)...
> 
> Coming in at $5.99 - https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0843Q7TV1
> Not sure if intentional bait-and-switch or honest mistake but what I received was nothing like what was posted as the product pic here:
> ...



Nice that I am not the only cheapo hunter here  

That first one really is a mean bait-n-switch, the initial pic looks good. But what you got is the i7, the very first AirPod clone which I remember selling for 50$+ when they first came out .. by now they are over mass produced and sellers try to get rid of stock (I got a set as a 'freebie' from AE), they are a surprise as in 'they actually work and do NOT sound absolutely useless' (that one goes to the D15) .. but battery lasts less than 1h and yes, they just look terrible in ear .. you can stuff your toothbrush in there for similar effect.


----------



## voicemaster

chinmie said:


> Now with music playing softly (or at max, in coversation level volume), try toggling the ANC on and off. Usually without ANC on, the lows would get clouded and blurred by the outside rumbles. With loud music that ANC effect would be less apparent, because the music already overpowers the ambient noise already..but that will not be healthy for the ears. I have a rather sensitive hearing..meaning loud noise would hurt my ears, so having ANC is a Godsend.
> 
> I haven't tried the 1more personally, but judging by experience, i think why people think it doesn't have good ANC is because of it has less passive isolation than what they normally use, not because of the ANC performance alone


It does have a weak passive noise isolation. There is almost no pressure build up when you put it on your ears. I think the problem with 1more, they try to compensate the loss in bass by boosting it when the ANC turned on. They simply just boosted it too much  and can be easily fix with software update. I just tried listening to music in my bathroom with the fan turned on to try out the ANC feature and at level 1, you can still hear faintly the fan (music at 20% volume). Turned it up to level 2, it is harder to hear the fan noise since most of the low is cut out, leaving just a tiny hiss sound from the fan. The music playing also change in sound, the higher the ANC level, the higher the bass is and less splash from the treble. But you can still hear everything clearly. Vocal/mid didn't really take much hit. Cymbals sound like there is barely any shimmer to it. And as I said, I will be travelling this month so I will try the ANC against airbus A350.


----------



## gocam (Feb 3, 2020)

gocam said:


> Hmm, mine came from mifo direct as the seller which makes you think that they'd be at least as updated. Perhaps not ?
> 
> G



Applied the firmware update --- thanks so much to Francesco. The original digital clipping I mentioned is still there on the song I quoted, I _think_ that the overall sound signature is improved though, but as I listen to more music, the clipping is always prone to come back, I just noticed again listening to Chemical Brothers' Got To Keep On around 3:45 onwards and you'll hear it all over the place (I am skipping past the section that has a lot of chaotic sound to a more regular passage - the metallic tearing/ripping sound happens almost on a marching tempo). The Nuarl 6's remain a tough act to beat, but the form factor of the o7s is so fantastic. I may send them back for replacement and check to see how that functions. But for right now, I won't keep them as is ---- if you have them, perhaps you can try on the above passage and see if you hear what I can.

Also - had a little look on amazon, and a couple of the critical reviews there seem to mention the precise same thing I am noticing. Surprised nobody here has noticed ? "On some songs with punchy bass, there is a terrible amount of noise distortion which is unbearable. It seems to be more prominent on one earbud which leads me to believe there may be some quality control issues in the manufacturing process." and "1/31/2020 I ordered a replacement because the sound crackles badly even at VERY low volume. This happened to the first one and it is annoying as hell. Im very very dissapointed. These ear buds have the form factor that i like and touch control but the sound quality is terrible."

Those comments I think on the balance reflect my impressions.


----------



## voicemaster

gocam said:


> Applied the firmware update --- thanks so much to Francesco. The original digital clipping I mentioned is still there on the song I quoted, I _think_ that the overall sound signature is improved though, but as I listen to more music, the clipping is always prone to come back, I just noticed again listening to Chemical Brothers' Got To Keep On around 3:45 onwards and you'll hear it all over the place (I am skipping past the section that has a lot of chaotic sound to a more regular passage - the metallic tearing/ripping sound happens almost on a marching tempo). The Nuarl 6's remain a tough act to beat, but the form factor of the o7s is so fantastic. I may send them back for replacement and check to see how that functions. But for right now, I won't keep them as is ---- if you have them, perhaps you can try on the above passage and see if you hear what I can.
> 
> Also - had a little look on amazon, and a couple of the critical reviews there seem to mention the precise same thing I am noticing. *Surprised nobody here has noticed ?* "On some songs with punchy bass, there is a terrible amount of noise distortion which is unbearable. It seems to be more prominent on one earbud which leads me to believe there may be some quality control issues in the manufacturing process." and "1/31/2020 I ordered a replacement because the sound crackles badly even at VERY low volume. This happened to the first one and it is annoying as hell. Im very very dissapointed. These ear buds have the form factor that i like and touch control but the sound quality is terrible."
> 
> Those comments I think on the balance reflect my impressions.



I did an entire post about that lol. I said in my post that heavy bass songs will clip/distort the sound. The only remedy is to lower the volume.


----------



## clerkpalmer

I never did get that FW update for my 1more.  If they can iron out the SQ issues over ANC, I'll revisit them.  I agree it should be an easy fix if they actually wanted to fix.  Switching back to Android, so I might give the MW07+ another run with Aptx.


----------



## gocam

voicemaster said:


> I did an entire post about that lol. I said in my post that heavy bass songs will clip/distort the sound. The only remedy is to lower the volume.



On my unit at least, lowering the volume makes absolutely no difference. I don't listen particularly loud, as the isolation on these is good.


----------



## erockg

clerkpalmer said:


> I never did get that FW update for my 1more.  If they can iron out the SQ issues over ANC, I'll revisit them.  I agree it should be an easy fix if they actually wanted to fix.  Switching back to Android, so I might give the MW07+ another run with Aptx.



Sad about the FW update.  The MW07+ sound wonderful.  Fit is and sound leak is what hurt me.  New Beoplay 3rd gen out supposedly 2/14.  Might be worth a flier.


----------



## vaaccess

gocam said:


> Applied the firmware update --- thanks so much to Francesco. The original digital clipping I mentioned is still there on the song I quoted, I _think_ that the overall sound signature is improved though, but as I listen to more music, the clipping is always prone to come back, I just noticed again listening to Chemical Brothers' Got To Keep On around 3:45 onwards and you'll hear it all over the place (I am skipping past the section that has a lot of chaotic sound to a more regular passage - the metallic tearing/ripping sound happens almost on a marching tempo). The Nuarl 6's remain a tough act to beat, but the form factor of the o7s is so fantastic. I may send them back for replacement and check to see how that functions. But for right now, I won't keep them as is ---- if you have them, perhaps you can try on the above passage and see if you hear what I can.
> 
> Also - had a little look on amazon, and a couple of the critical reviews there seem to mention the precise same thing I am noticing. Surprised nobody here has noticed ? "On some songs with punchy bass, there is a terrible amount of noise distortion which is unbearable. It seems to be more prominent on one earbud which leads me to believe there may be some quality control issues in the manufacturing process." and "1/31/2020 I ordered a replacement because the sound crackles badly even at VERY low volume. This happened to the first one and it is annoying as hell. Im very very dissapointed. These ear buds have the form factor that i like and touch control but the sound quality is terrible."
> 
> Those comments I think on the balance reflect my impressions.


 
I’m not getting clipping on that song....


----------



## gocam

vaaccess said:


> I’m not getting clipping on that song....



If you also don't get dreadful clipping on the soulwax song I reference in an earlier post, then I perhaps will try a return and replace -- subject to how the track air+s sound - and see if there is an improvement.... Perhaps there were some bad batches as it sounds some people here don't have this issue, whereas on Amazon at least a couple others did. And to be clear again, it's not just high volume , it's not just electronic dance music, the potential for the breakup is always there with bass of any kind I just chose those two tracks as it was super obvious for me.


----------



## vaaccess

clerkpalmer said:


> ANC is completely different to me than passive isolation. Like apples and oranges. Even well sealing iems will sound awful on a plane. I don’t care how well they isolate. ANC takes care of that. ANC kills the hum and background noise at the gym for me.



Just used my mifo o7 on a plane.my Klipsch X11i IEMs had pretty phenomenal passive isolation with Comply foam tips.

And, going in I thought these TWS had pretty good passive isolation with Misodiko TWS Pro tips. But they are quite a bit worse than my IEMs. Usable enough, but not the experience I was hoping for.

I guess I do want/need ANC. I’ll use my Klipsch on planes for the time being I guess.


----------



## vaaccess

gocam said:


> If you also don't get dreadful clipping on the soulwax song I reference in an earlier post, then I perhaps will try a return and replace -- subject to how the track air+s sound - and see if there is an improvement.... Perhaps there were some bad batches as it sounds some people here don't have this issue, whereas on Amazon at least a couple others did. And to be clear again, it's not just high volume , it's not just electronic dance music, the potential for the breakup is always there with bass of any kind I just chose those two tracks as it was super obvious for me.



I would try to do an exchange if it’s relatively easy to do so.
Hope your next set is better!!!

did you run them through the a test on:https://www.audiocheck.net/soundtests_headphones.php

would be curious if you hear issues there.


----------



## FYLegend

Anyone tried TaoTronics SoundLiberty 79 or SoundLiberty 77?

Any AptX TWS that has a seamless single bud use for a non-TWS+ device? My Onyx Neo sometimes struggles to pair to the second bud after putting the master bud into the case. Sabbat E12 Ultra doesn't have this issue as long as the initial pairing is successful, plus if things go wrong I am able to double-tap to go into pairing mode. However, alternating buds still causes the music to pause briefly, unlike some faster Realtek or Airoha options.


----------



## clerkpalmer

erockg said:


> Sad about the FW update.  The MW07+ sound wonderful.  Fit is and sound leak is what hurt me.  New Beoplay 3rd gen out supposedly 2/14.  Might be worth a flier.


I had the original E8.  Hated the fit and while the sound was decent I thought they were overpriced then and now they want even more money for them.


----------



## erockg

clerkpalmer said:


> I had the original E8.  Hated the fit and while the sound was decent I thought they were overpriced then and now they want even more money for them.


Definitely overpriced.  They’ll go on sale.  Always do.  The E8 Motion were better.  Looks like the new 3rd gen could be a better fit.  Smaller.  Price though... I do not mind paying if they work for my needs.  If they don’t, they go back!


----------



## assassin10000

assassin10000 said:


> So I got the Mavin Air-XR QI yesterday and I'm fairly happy with them.
> 
> Initial sound is good, maybe a mild V but truly more L shaped. No sibilance thus far. I listen at low to med volumes though. These things dig deep, at 50% volume on a frequency test I can clearly hear 20hz.
> 
> ...



Just to confirm what someone else said, the Air-XR does not allow the user to change language prompts like some chi-fi tws do. Just got an email back from Mavin.

Sound of the Air-XR is L-shaped. Great bass reach and good quantity. Awesome on EDM & Rap/hip hop. Gonna run through some rock/classical/jazz/etc. to see if it's a decent all rounder too.


----------



## hifi80sman

erockg said:


> Definitely overpriced.  They’ll go on sale.  Always do.  The E8 Motion were better.  Looks like the new 3rd gen could be a better fit.  Smaller.  Price though... I do not mind paying if they work for my needs.  If they don’t, they go back!


B&O is notoriously overpriced for what they offer.  The original E8 went for $299, but that's the sucker price, given they have large discounted sales here and there.  The one thing I like about Bose, is they have sales, but they are minor, like $20 to $50, so even if I purchase it at regular price, it's not that big of a hit AND is not a big hit to brand value.  They want to maintain the premium image, but they price themselves out of sales, then when income is sluggish, they slash prices, negating the very brand value they're attempting to achieve.

B&O is the new Beats.  The retail price is never the REAL price.


----------



## Ziggomatic

New to TWS headphones. I'm on my second set. Just got the Soundmagic TWS50 after trying out the Haylou GTS1 Plus. I think both sound pretty good, but I like to listen to music loud. Neither goes loud enough with my Samsung S10e. If I crank it all the way up I can get to just adequate listening levels. 

I've done a bit of research online, and I could be wrong, but there doesn't seem like much I can do to fix this. I tried fiddling with some of the developer options, but nothing worked. What a silly problem. 

At this point I'm going to try and rely on you good people to point me towards a set that sounds good and gets proper loud. Any ideas?


----------



## erockg

hifi80sman said:


> B&O is notoriously overpriced for what they offer.  The original E8 went for $299, but that's the sucker price, given they have large discounted sales here and there.  The one thing I like about Bose, is they have sales, but they are minor, like $20 to $50, so even if I purchase it at regular price, it's not that big of a hit AND is not a big hit to brand value.  They want to maintain the premium image, but they price themselves out of sales, then when income is sluggish, they slash prices, negating the very brand value they're attempting to achieve.
> 
> B&O is the new Beats.  The retail price is never the REAL price.


Agreed.  Problem with Bose for me personally is sound bleed.  Folks at my office could hear my music.  Granted, I listen to heavy stuff!  I hope the new Bose tw headphones fix that but those stayhear tips never fit me well.


----------



## turbobb

@Ziggomatic - if either of your TWS has the option to control volume, try enabling the "Disable absolute volume" option and then manually bumping each ear bud's volume to max via the controls on each earbud.


----------



## Caipirina (Feb 3, 2020)

Has anyone else noticed that their orders on AliExpress done during last sale and ‘please wait for us being done with CNY until Feb 3’ have *all* been bumped up for another 15 days???




I guess this is virus related (ppl having trouble traveling back to work and such)

while I can totally understand that they have other / more important problems right now, a message / announcement would have been nice.


----------



## erockg

My Cleer Ally Plus ANC TW will be here Thursday.  Fingers crossed!


----------



## Ziggomatic

turbobb said:


> @Ziggomatic - if either of your TWS has the option to control volume, try enabling the "Disable absolute volume" option and then manually bumping each ear bud's volume to max via the controls on each earbud.



Thanks. Yeah, I've messed with this setting a lot and never heard any difference. Tried again just now. Unpaired the headphones, restarted the phone, etc. No difference.


----------



## assassin10000 (Feb 3, 2020)

Ziggomatic said:


> New to TWS headphones. I'm on my second set. Just got the Soundmagic TWS50 after trying out the Haylou GTS1 Plus. I think both sound pretty good, but I like to listen to music loud. Neither goes loud enough with my Samsung S10e. If I crank it all the way up I can get to just adequate listening levels.
> 
> I've done a bit of research online, and I could be wrong, but there doesn't seem like much I can do to fix this. I tried fiddling with some of the developer options, but nothing worked. What a silly problem.
> 
> At this point I'm going to try and rely on you good people to point me towards a set that sounds good and gets proper loud. Any ideas?





turbobb said:


> @Ziggomatic - if either of your TWS has the option to control volume, try enabling the "Disable absolute volume" option and then manually bumping each ear bud's volume to max via the controls on each earbud.





Ziggomatic said:


> Thanks. Yeah, I've messed with this setting a lot and never heard any difference. Tried again just now. Unpaired the headphones, restarted the phone, etc. No difference.



Does your S10E have a safe volume limit setting that can be disabled?

Otherwise you may need to try a different TWS. My Mavin Air-XR I listen to at volume #1 (of 16) on TWS and about 75% volume on phone. This is with that absolute BT volume control disabled. This is in a quiet environment at home, if out I only go up to 2 or 3 of 16.


How long do you listen for? What environment? If you haven't lost any hearing yet you may want to try changing to listening at normal speaking volumes (don't make the mistake the rest of us may have made lol). 

You could also try foam tips which will increase isolation (and bass possibly) so the music itself seems louder.


----------



## tma6

erockg said:


> My Cleer Ally Plus ANC TW will be here Thursday.  Fingers crossed!



Definitely let us know what you think!


----------



## FYLegend (Feb 4, 2020)

Just received the Aufo M1.


Mixed first impressions. Punchy bass, good soundstage and detail, but unfortunately there is some fuzzy distortion like a vinyl record, less noticeable at higher volumes or busier tracks, but more so with pianos. Supports AAC despite some reviewers saying they don't.  Similar design to Anbes 359/BE30/Kissral R18, but shorter nozzle and different 3-pin layout. Transparency mode is quite clear, but is metallic and hisses a lot. It also dips down the music volume (some people may prefer this but I'd rather turn down the music volume myself). Case has USB Type-C charging (true connection supported) and Qi charging.

EDIT: These have short nozzles and longer tips may fit the buds but won't fit in to the carrying case. Anything like Jabra 65t or Earfun Free tips will fit in the case. I switched to the Earfun Free tips, which stay put in my ears much better and isolate very well. However, the right bud does have a fair bit of driver flex and pressure.


----------



## Ziggomatic

assassin10000 said:


> Does your S10E have a safe volume limit setting that can be disabled?
> 
> Otherwise you may need to try a different TWS. My Mavin Air-XR I listen to at volume #1 (of 16) on TWS and about 75% volume on phone. This is with that absolute BT volume control disabled. This is in a quiet environment at home, if out I only go up to 2 or 3 of 16.
> 
> ...


 
No volume limit. 

Kind of a head scratcher. I was sure there was a setting I could tweak, because why make an audio device that doesn't get loud? I don't get it. 

Anyway, thanks for the help.


----------



## georgelai57

Ziggomatic said:


> New to TWS headphones. I'm on my second set. Just got the Soundmagic TWS50 after trying out the Haylou GTS1 Plus. I think both sound pretty good, but I like to listen to music loud. Neither goes loud enough with my Samsung S10e. If I crank it all the way up I can get to just adequate listening levels.
> 
> I've done a bit of research online, and I could be wrong, but there doesn't seem like much I can do to fix this. I tried fiddling with some of the developer options, but nothing worked. What a silly problem.
> 
> At this point I'm going to try and rely on you good people to point me towards a set that sounds good and gets proper loud. Any ideas?


With all my TWS, I listen loud at a minimum of 75% to 80% (Apple Music off an iPhone XR). All my TWS except for the Whizzer WA11 where 70% is the absolute maximum I can withstand.


----------



## chinmie

Ziggomatic said:


> New to TWS headphones. I'm on my second set. Just got the Soundmagic TWS50 after trying out the Haylou GTS1 Plus. I think both sound pretty good, but I like to listen to music loud. Neither goes loud enough with my Samsung S10e. If I crank it all the way up I can get to just adequate listening levels.
> 
> I've done a bit of research online, and I could be wrong, but there doesn't seem like much I can do to fix this. I tried fiddling with some of the developer options, but nothing worked. What a silly problem.
> 
> At this point I'm going to try and rely on you good people to point me towards a set that sounds good and gets proper loud. Any ideas?



Try maxing the volume on the phone first, then full reset the TWS. I have similar experience with two of my TWS that uses realtek chipset (the QCYT1C and T5). Usually after reset, it would increase in volume.


----------



## Caipirina

Caipirina said:


> Has anyone else noticed that their orders on AliExpress done during last sale and ‘please wait for us being done with CNY until Feb 3’ have *all* been bumped up for another 15 days???
> 
> 
> 
> ...


And this being said, THIS particular order has shipped out today ... very curious about this one ... the only other TWS I have in the pipeline currently is a backup pair of X12, but that crummy seller used BPost, and their reviews are just as shady as SunYou ... ordered 12/22, left country on 1/10 and then 9 minutes later 'handed over to postal operator of destination country and it will be delivered in a few days' ...  that was 4 weeks ago, no new tracking number, no mention of which operator handed over ... I am already counting that as another dispute / loss.


----------



## mroneto

Just received these today and have been listening for the past few hours. 
I'm not sure if they have been mentioned prior to this, I did a search on the thread but it turned up blank.

I find that they are right up there in sound quality with my favorite bluetooth headphone, the SoundSurge 46.
Detailed specs are hard to find, they aren't even listed on the official website for some reason. 

No issues or problems so far, the feature set and overall build quality seems very good for this price range.

TaoTronics SoundLiberty 79

If they are built anything like the over-ears, then I'm positive they'll last a while (my SS46 took a beating on a trip to Italy last month), but only time will tell I guess.


----------



## Odioer

Caipirina said:


> And this being said, THIS particular order has shipped out today ... very curious about this one ... the only other TWS I have in the pipeline currently is a backup pair of X12, but that crummy seller used BPost, and their reviews are just as shady as SunYou ... ordered 12/22, left country on 1/10 and then 9 minutes later 'handed over to postal operator of destination country and it will be delivered in a few days' ...  that was 4 weeks ago, no new tracking number, no mention of which operator handed over ... I am already counting that as another dispute / loss.


I happily pay for AliExpress shipping whenever available, I find it the most reliable. Looking up for your impressions, you ordered a backup pair of sabbat x12? Is it really that good?


----------



## KarimLeVallois

Just returning my MW07+ as I was walking through Waterlooo Station last night and they were cutting out BIG TIME, like unusable stuttering and cuts. As I'll be using these for commuting, that is unacceptable; the MW07 never had issues like this. That along with the lack of guarantee from M&D about enabling AAC, I just don't think they're worth the price. Trying out the B&W PX5 instead now.


----------



## gibletzor

I got a set of the Misodiko foam eartips to try them out.  They sound great with my Liberty Pro 2 and Tranya B530 Pro, but they do the same thing I've had every set of foam eartips do; they stay in my ears when I pull the buds out.  I end up having to pull them out with a pair of tweezers...  I know they're on the earbud stem all the way.  Any tips for how to fix this?  If I go down to the next smaller size, they don't seal.   I haven't tried Comply tips yet.


----------



## Caipirina

Odioer said:


> I happily pay for AliExpress shipping whenever available, I find it the most reliable. Looking up for your impressions, you ordered a backup pair of sabbat x12? Is it really that good?


Yes, they are, especially if you are a runner! They have great sound, but because they do not fully seal (so you get enough, potentially life saving ambient sound) they do not create the dreaded Thud™ with every foot fall as sealing IEM style TWS do. Unfortunately, my current set has a few glitches here and there, maybe more sweat than their IPX rating allows has seeped in, but they are still going ok strong (15K this morning without a single connection drop), but I thought I grab another pair when I saw them offered for 32$ ... 

Yeah, the shipping thing is getting trickier, I had shops offering free shipping with Singapore Post (so far, in my experience and with my location the fastest / most reliable) only to then turn around and use SunYou ...   I actually thought Bpost should be reliable, but the reviews . are . really . bad !!!

I also noticed (but this might be my location specific) that free shipping is less and less offered ...


----------



## stormwrx

KarimLeVallois said:


> Just returning my MW07+ as I was walking through Waterlooo Station last night and they were cutting out BIG TIME, like unusable stuttering and cuts. As I'll be using these for commuting, that is unacceptable; the MW07 never had issues like this. That along with the lack of guarantee from M&D about enabling AAC, I just don't think they're worth the price. Trying out the B&W PX5 instead now.



My first pair of MW07+ had connectivity issues, but I exchanged them and the new pair has been solid. I walk around in downtown Chicago all day and there is only one specific corner where they cut out for a second - and there is a bunch of cell equipment mounted nearby. So, maybe you had a defective unit?


----------



## KarimLeVallois

stormwrx said:


> My first pair of MW07+ had connectivity issues, but I exchanged them and the new pair has been solid. I walk around in downtown Chicago all day and there is only one specific corner where they cut out for a second - and there is a bunch of cell equipment mounted nearby. So, maybe you had a defective unit?



Maybe I did. I may re-visit if they add AAC in the future.

Thanks for the reply!


----------



## martoediefroets

gibletzor said:


> I got a set of the Misodiko foam eartips to try them out.  They sound great with my Liberty Pro 2 and Tranya B530 Pro, but they do the same thing I've had every set of foam eartips do; they stay in my ears when I pull the buds out.  I end up having to pull them out with a pair of tweezers...  I know they're on the earbud stem all the way.  Any tips for how to fix this?  If I go down to the next smaller size, they don't seal.   I haven't tried Comply tips yet.



Got the Misodiko Pro tips today and same over here, they seal really REALLY well. 
Like cement!
The tips do improve the sound of my Zolo Liberty and a bit of glue will keep them on the buds ...hopefully.


----------



## assassin10000

gibletzor said:


> I got a set of the Misodiko foam eartips to try them out.  They sound great with my Liberty Pro 2 and Tranya B530 Pro, but they do the same thing I've had every set of foam eartips do; they stay in my ears when I pull the buds out.  I end up having to pull them out with a pair of tweezers...  I know they're on the earbud stem all the way.  Any tips for how to fix this?  If I go down to the next smaller size, they don't seal.   I haven't tried Comply tips yet.



Are you just pulling straight back? If so, I'd instead try wiggling them in a circle or pressing front/back and up/down to slightly compress the foam before pulling. Or perhaps tilting/angling as you pull.


----------



## rr12267

Just received email for 48 hours sale for those interested.  $49.99 Amazon US

Aiwa Prodigy TWS


----------



## FYLegend (Feb 4, 2020)

Further impressions of the Aufo M1:
Buzzing distortion occurs with certain bass or piano notes. Very bad in the intro of Magic by Coldplay or the drums in Luv (Sic) by Nujabes. I don't know if it's just my unit as it isn't noticeable with upbeat tracks. Considering exchanging or returning them - not sure if other users have experienced this. It's a shame they have this "aufo" distortion because the sound is otherwise nicely balanced with a fairly large soundstage. They have fairly deep bass but it only shows in certain tracks. Treble is smooth with a bit of sparkle.

Connectivity on my Exynos Note 9 is decent, but it does occasionally cut off if I'm dancing with them with my phone on the table. The BE30 UFO had a similar issue so I suspect it is a similar (Realtek?) chipset. On Windows 10 with SBC the connectivity is mediocre. Latency is much better than Android and ok for gaming, but I get cut-outs when multitasking. AptX devices works much better in this regard.

They also have an auto-power-off function after about 1 minute of no audio playing, even when connected to a device. Anyone experienced this with other TWS? I get that some chips do this to save battery but it's a hassle to have to power on instead of just outright resuming it. Sabbat E12 and Tronsmart Onyx Neo remain on, though the latter drains a lot of battery whether music is playing or not.

EDIT: I asked one reviewer who tested it out and told me there's no buzzing distortion in one of my test tracks. Looks like these are going back.


----------



## base08

Some days ago I discussed about the SBC vs AAC vs APTX issue, fueled by my disappointment regarding the unsupported AAC codec on the Bomaker Sifi, which for an iPhone user is a problem because you are limited to SBC. I've made a video showing clearly the problem with SBC and their artifacts that it produces...



What you are seeing depicted here, is a test between bluetooth codecs SBC and APTX (and the original WAV file) with a sine wave sound created between 10hz and 200hz (sub-bass and low bass areas). 

In the first run I play the original file in WAV and you can see the graph sweeping cleanly between the corresponding frequencies. In the second one the same sine wave is being transcoded into APTX realtime and we can see in the graph that not much changed from the first one(perhaps a slight change in DB). At last I play the sound using SBC and we can clearly see some strange artifacts around 5khz along with the other expected frequencies. 

This produces some metalic sub-bass feel, that can be heard clearly with bassier music.


----------



## DynamicEars

chinmie said:


> Try maxing the volume on the phone first, then full reset the TWS. I have similar experience with two of my TWS that uses realtek chipset (the QCYT1C and T5). Usually after reset, it would increase in volume.



Went back and forth just to find this post on this very active thread. Just to say THANK YOU.
I've tried last time with your suggestion but no dice. And during my free time, I tried them once more. I figure out something, before reset the earbuds, we need to put them into MAX volume, and then reset the buds, and reconnect with MAX volume again. That changed the max volume level (if previously was bonded to other device or something that made the bud volume level is lower).
I did this to my Haylou GT1 Plus with QCC3020 chipset not realtek, but it works! last time i tried i think because i didn't do in MAX volume level when unpair/pairing. I got like 20% volume increment now. Thanks dude you made my day!!


----------



## gibletzor

I know not everyone is as excited for the new Galaxy Buds as I am, but new info came out today!  Biggest change is...  dual dynamic drivers!!  Also looks like the Galaxy Wear app is finally coming to ios for you iPhone folks so you can customize the buttons and set the EQ.￼


----------



## chinmie

DynamicEars said:


> Went back and forth just to find this post on this very active thread. Just to say THANK YOU.
> I've tried last time with your suggestion but no dice. And during my free time, I tried them once more. I figure out something, before reset the earbuds, we need to put them into MAX volume, and then reset the buds, and reconnect with MAX volume again. That changed the max volume level (if previously was bonded to other device or something that made the bud volume level is lower).
> I did this to my Haylou GT1 Plus with QCC3020 chipset not realtek, but it works! last time i tried i think because i didn't do in MAX volume level when unpair/pairing. I got like 20% volume increment now. Thanks dude you made my day!!



glad to help! 

on the side note, i took my Airsun X8 to the Gym, and i got to say the connection range of this is not very good, can't dven went more than 3 meters away with a concrete column between it. i ended up have to carry my phone around in the gym. to date, only this and the older soundcore liberty neo that have a really short connection range. with the Dyplay and the others i can easily go across the room without any stuttering.


----------



## dweaver

gibletzor said:


> I know not everyone is as excited for the new Galaxy Buds as I am, but new info came out today!  Biggest change is...  dual dynamic drivers!!  Also looks like the Galaxy Wear app is finally coming to ios for you iPhone folks so you can customize the buttons and set the EQ.￼


Dual drivers might kick their sound up a notch! I find the current model a bit to polite sounding.


----------



## assassin10000 (Feb 5, 2020)

Caipirina said:


> the only other TWS I have in the pipeline currently is a backup pair of X12



I just ordered another pair myself. Mostly for the charging case. I lucked out and there was a used set on ebay, according to the seller used only once fwiw.

My recent set (new, received Jan 18) only has 3 of 4 leds lighting up. I popped the case apart and found no led soldered on from the factory. Doesn't affect anything but annoys me.

I'm considering getting and taking apart a wireless charging case to make the x12 case wirelessly charge.


----------



## axhng (Feb 5, 2020)

gibletzor said:


> I know not everyone is as excited for the new Galaxy Buds as I am, but new info came out today!  Biggest change is...  dual dynamic drivers!!  Also looks like the Galaxy Wear app is finally coming to ios for you iPhone folks so you can customize the buttons and set the EQ.￼



I quite like the galaxy buds and how it sounds, so kinda curious about how the new one would sound. I think their "AKG-tuned" wired earbuds for their phones are using dual dynamic drivers too? I have the USB-C one from the Note10 and the bass is a little too much for my taste, hopefully that's not the direction they're going with the new galaxy buds.

side note, this is like the worse time to buy stuff from China. I ordered a pair of Haylou GT1 Plus that finally starting shipping over from China after like a week, a pair of QCY T5 that won't be shipped till next week, and another pair of Vido earbuds that seems to be in limbo (after giving my old one to a friend a while back). But well, with everything that's going on right now, kinda understandable. Hope that this blows over soon and won't escalate further. Stay healthy guys!


----------



## Caipirina

assassin10000 said:


> I just ordered another pair myself. Mostly for the charging case. I lucked out and there was a used set on ebay, according to the seller used only once fwiw.
> 
> My recent set (new, received Jan 18) only has 3 of 4 leds lighting up. I popped the case apart and found no led soldered on from the factory. Doesn't affect anything but annoys me.
> 
> I'm considering getting and taking apart a wireless charging case to make the x12 case wirelessly charge.


I remember seeing a seller on AE selling ‘just the case’ ... not sure if it was e12 or x12 though


----------



## Caipirina (Feb 5, 2020)

Don’t know how I never seen these guys before until today. Would have not minded the sales price. Anyone know those? Or ‘NIA’?

What intrigues me is the obvious inspiration by the Bose SSF. Down to the similar ear pieces (I suspect that in this case those there is ‘just’ an earbud shape opening hiding underneath.
But could be thudless.
Soooo, might bite that bullet at 20$. 
bt 5, usb c, volume control


----------



## GeeD

Hi All, 
I'm relatively new to TWS, having started with a set of Bose QC30 that I wanted to listen to my music and quiet down the din in the office.  They were supposed to be the best ANC at the time (well, depending what part of the Internet you believed, lol) Anyway, they went straight back 3 days later. Completely useless for listening to music in a quiet environment because ANC introduces an unacceptable floor of white noise.

This, it turns out, is how ANC works.  ANC does not give you silence in a noisy environment.  At best it gives you a softer muffled bunch of yuk, that will still mix in with your music, and typically is only really useful on the lower frequencies higher pitch voices can cut straight through, and that includes the latest Bose and Sony that I tried in the shop.  I have to wonder if some have higher expectations that the technology actually gives.  There is some fascinating research and white papers out there covering consumer and military applications and how they are tuned etc.

Anyway, ditched them and went back to a set of Bose Sound sport with no ANC and was able to enjoy my music again in full detail.  

I did look at the Sound sport free but they were huge and had ANC so wasn't going there ...but the no wires perked my interest.  And then TWS really started to take off on the back of the apple AirPods. 

So where have I ended up...


----------



## C_Lindbergh (Feb 5, 2020)

gibletzor said:


> I know not everyone is as excited for the new Galaxy Buds as I am, but new info came out today!  Biggest change is...  dual dynamic drivers!!  Also looks like the Galaxy Wear app is finally coming to ios for you iPhone folks so you can customize the buttons and set the EQ.￼



MULTI DEVICE connection? 11 Hours Battery? Wow.... Just a shame that they wont likely have APTX...So even if you got a Samsung Phone you won't be able to experience it fully on all your devices like a PC.


----------



## GeeD

I have...
1More Stylish
Because youtube said they were great, and I absolutely agree (apart from the firmware that changed the button operation which I think is now dreadful,  PLEEEEEASE give me decent track control back INSTEAD of volume)​Fiil T1 X
Because youtube said they were even better, they are not.​Horrible level of white noise that would creep into quiet passages in the music (that rather strangely did go quiet a few seconds after pausing playback but comes right back when you play again?!?) (show stopper)​The seal keeps a really good deal of ambient out, but is so good that you get thumping when you walk (show stopper), and drive flex that people were talking about.​Lypertek Tevi
Because youtube suggested they were too good to be true and audiophile level sound, but were most definitely not and went back after a week of burn in.​Horrible level of white noise that would creep into quiet passages in the music (show stopper)​Far to bright if nt shrill for my ears.​and finally
1More ANC
Contrary to some comments, I think these are great.​Just a little more warmth and detail at the higher end than the 1More Stylish.​ANC that you can switch off​I know one of the you tubers said something about more base when the ANC is on, but I sat in a quiet room for an hour flicking ANC on and off with the mobile App, and I just don't get that at all.  I don't know if I got a good pair or everyone is simply echoing what that guy said.​Only thing is, I still don't like the button layout.​​cheers


----------



## Trebor1966

Regarding Fiil T1 X: Do you have the static noise in your left or right side? I have it only on the left - right side is dead silent


----------



## GeeD

Hi Trebor, if that was for me, then both.
I'm talking about a general level of white noise or hiss on both channels.  The Tevi had that as well, but even worse than the cheaper T1 X.  The hiss is there during playback.  Pause or stop the playback and all you hear is the hiss for about 3 seconds or so, after which it's as if the buds realise and zero out the noise floor.  Very strange.

I also have the weak left hand side unit that squeaks and clicks and stuff when you put it in or move it around or waggle your ears.

I got them on offer from gear best so didn't bother trying to send them back or I would have tbh.


----------



## Caipirina

GeeD said:


> I did look at the Sound sport free but they were huge and had ANC so wasn't going there ...but the no wires perked my interest.  And then TWS really started to take off on the back of the apple AirPods.


The Bose SSFree do NOT have ANC ... but yes, they are on the bigger side, similar to the 1more Stylish IMHO. I love the sound and they don't thump when running.


----------



## Caipirina

GeeD said:


> I have...
> 1More Stylish
> Because youtube said they were great, and I absolutely agree (apart from the firmware that changed the button operation which I think is now dreadful,  PLEEEEEASE give me decent track control back INSTEAD of volume)​Fiil T1 X
> Because youtube said they were even better, they are not.​Horrible level of white noise that would creep into quiet passages in the music (that rather strangely did go quiet a few seconds after pausing playback but comes right back when you play again?!?) (show stopper)​The seal keeps a really good deal of ambient out, but is so good that you get thumping when you walk (show stopper), and drive flex that people were talking about.​Lypertek Tevi
> ...



a) it looks like you have discovered that watching YT reviews can give you trust issues  
b) I think you are one of the few who rather want to have track control instead of vol control on the buttons ...


----------



## base08 (Feb 5, 2020)




----------



## Caipirina

base08 said:


>


IPX2? That's the lowest rating I have ever seen on TWS, but hey, at least they are honest about it and not like others with no official rating just casual 'should resist some sweat' statements ... 

"_IPX1 – Offers protection from some water drops to an extent of at least 10 minutes.

IPX2 – This adds on to IPX1, however, this ranking requires that the product can survive being rotated while having water dripped on for at least 10 minutes."_


----------



## gdv brisbane

gdv brisbane said:


> Can anyone recommend third party tips that will still charge in the SSK case?





Timastyle said:


> I use the SpinFit 360 with my SSK in large without issues.


Thanks for the advice. The Spinfit CP360 do fit in the SSK case but I'm suffering from serious "IEM thump" when walking with them. Has anyone managed to find foam tips such as the Ikko or Misodiko that fit in the SSK case?


----------



## voicemaster

GeeD said:


> I have...
> 1More Stylish
> Because youtube said they were great, and I absolutely agree (apart from the firmware that changed the button operation which I think is now dreadful,  PLEEEEEASE give me decent track control back INSTEAD of volume)​Fiil T1 X
> Because youtube said they were even better, they are not.​Horrible level of white noise that would creep into quiet passages in the music (that rather strangely did go quiet a few seconds after pausing playback but comes right back when you play again?!?) (show stopper)​The seal keeps a really good deal of ambient out, but is so good that you get thumping when you walk (show stopper), and drive flex that people were talking about.​Lypertek Tevi
> ...


That's what I am experiencing with my 1more ANC too.


----------



## Bartig

Here's my review of the Edifier TWS NB, and I'm really positive. Impressive ANC and battery life and a warm, friendly sound signature. It may not offer the most analytical sound, but I consider it a way better daily driver than the more artificial sounding Liberty 2 Pro.


----------



## tma6

Bartig said:


> Here's my review of the Edifier TWS NB, and I'm really positive. Impressive ANC and battery life and a warm, friendly sound signature. It may not offer the most analytical sound, but I consider it a way better daily driver than the more artificial sounding Liberty 2 Pro.




Fantastic review! Now if only I could convince you to try the Nuarl N6 Pros..


----------



## hifi80sman

Bartig said:


> Here's my review of the Edifier TWS NB, and I'm really positive. Impressive ANC and battery life and a warm, friendly sound signature. It may not offer the most analytical sound, but I consider it a way better daily driver than the more artificial sounding Liberty 2 Pro.


I definitely understand there may be some manufacturing variances with Chi-Fi, so my impressions are not in disagreement with yours, simply a different experience.  

I also found the ANC was effective, but ambient mode on mine was off, as the open mic on the L earbud was WAY sensitive and let in a lot of noise, while the R earbud open mic was hardly picked up anything.  Was your set like this?

I thought the bass was great, but the treble sounded very metallic and artificial, definitely more than the L2P, which is not necessarily natural.


----------



## GeeD

Caipirina said:


> The Bose SSFree do NOT have ANC ... but yes, they are on the bigger side, similar to the 1more Stylish IMHO. I love the sound and they don't thump when running.


I must be losing it   I thought they had been, sorry about that. That was a couple of years ago when they were new ish and the price was a bit higher than the £250 I paid for the QC30 at the time.



Caipirina said:


> a) it looks like you have discovered that watching YT reviews can give you trust issues


Well there are a couple I don't even bother to watch anymore  but it's just the same with forums or chatting down the pub 

So more people fiddle with the volume than skipping or replaying an odd track? ...that surprises me


----------



## hifi80sman

GeeD said:


> Anyway, ditched them and went back to a set of Bose Sound sport with no ANC and was able to enjoy my music again in full detail.


Interesting.  The Bose SoundSport are semi-open and have far less overall isolation than the QC30.  I find the SoundSport Free have the same isolation, but sound better than the original SoundSport.


----------



## SoundChoice (Feb 5, 2020)

Caipirina said:


> IPX2? That's the lowest rating I have ever seen on TWS, but hey, at least they are honest about it and not like others with no official rating just casual 'should resist some sweat' statements ...
> 
> "_IPX1 – Offers protection from some water drops to an extent of at least 10 minutes.
> 
> IPX2 – This adds on to IPX1, however, this ranking requires that the product can survive being rotated while having water dripped on for at least 10 minutes."_



"IPX½ _–_ May freeze up, rust, and short-circuit in a light misty fog."


----------



## GeeD

I got them out again yesterday for another try - they did well, still 80% charge after a good few months of sat in the drawer.  They are rather open, and pretty much don't provide any seal at all.  At the time, I gave up on trying to quiet down the hubbub in the office, for better sound quality when I was in a quiet spot.  Out and about, in the office or down the gym isn't exactly when I'm looking for audiophile delivery tbh

In comparison, the likes of the 1More have a reasonable seal, which helps cut some of the ambient noise, but that total seal kind of thing you get with the likes of the T1 X is just too much for me, I can't stand the thud thud when you are walking or running.


----------



## BigZ12

For a long while ago we talked about the NFMI transmitter in Sennheiser MTWs.
B&O E8 2.0 also did use this tech for transferring signals from right to left bud.

What about the chi-fi models? What tech do they use to transfer signals from one bud to the other?

I'm interested in trying the new E8 3.0, with BT 5.1, but I'm afraid of the NFMI. Because of the use of SBC from right to left speaker/bud.


----------



## assassin10000

BigZ12 said:


> For a long while ago we talked about the NFMI transmitter in Sennheiser MTWs.
> B&O E8 2.0 also did use this tech for transferring signals from right to left bud.
> 
> What about the chi-fi models? What tech do they use to transfer signals from one bud to the other?
> ...



Did the MTW do the pair one side then allow pairing to the other side when a message pops up? 

I get that on the Spunky Beats, Air-XR and other buds that connect individually with TWS+ via BT. If it does show that in the instructions, that may be a good sign it doesn't use NFMI.


----------



## TK33

assassin10000 said:


> Did the MTW do the pair one side then allow pairing to the other side when a message pops up?
> 
> I get that on the Spunky Beats, Air-XR and other buds that connect individually with TWS+ via BT. If it does show that in the instructions, that may be a good sign it doesn't use NFMI.



The MTWs don't pair each side individually (not TWS+) so you dont get that popup and cant use the left side independently.


----------



## caprimulgus

axhng said:


> I have the USB-C one from the Note10 and the bass is a little too much for my taste, hopefully that's not the direction they're going with the new galaxy buds.



Hmm, as a basshead, this is the kind of comment that piques my interests - I hope that IS the direction they go with the new galaxy buds! 

I've been waiting for the release of the Galaxy S20 Ultra (currently using a hand-me-down iPhone 6, after my 950XL Windows Phone stopped supporting WhatsApp!), so quite likely that I will be getting a Samsung phone! So this interests me greatly!


----------



## FYLegend

Nobody here has tried Klipsch T3? Costco Canada has them for 109$ now, and other dealers 129$


----------



## erockg

FYLegend said:


> Nobody here has tried Klipsch T3? Costco Canada has them for 109$ now, and other dealers 129$


I wish.  Sadly, they're not avail in the USA yet.  I've only tried the S1 and the T5's.


----------



## clerkpalmer (Feb 5, 2020)

voicemaster said:


> That's what I am experiencing with my 1more ANC too.


Maybe I got a bad pair? I never saw the youtube videos before I noticed the muddyness with ANC. I noticed it within 30 seconds of trying them.  If you are saying that you can't tell a difference with anc on then clearly something was wrong with mine. They were literally awful. I couldn't stand it. So I'm beginning to think it was my set. While reasonable minds can disagree about sq this was night and day different.


----------



## clerkpalmer

On a brighter note, I repurchased the mw07 plus for like the 10th now that I'm back to android. I really think these are still the gold standard for sq notwithstanding crinnacles trashing of them (and I pay to subscribe to him). The ANC is weak sauce but it's better than nothing. Takes the edge off the hum.


----------



## clerkpalmer

Caipirina said:


> IPX2? That's the lowest rating I have ever seen on TWS, but hey, at least they are honest about it and not like others with no official rating just casual 'should resist some sweat' statements ...
> 
> "_IPX1 – Offers protection from some water drops to an extent of at least 10 minutes.
> 
> IPX2 – This adds on to IPX1, however, this ranking requires that the product can survive being rotated while having water dripped on for at least 10 minutes."_


Yikes. That's shameful Samsung. Hoping they come free with the soon to be mine s20 ultra...


----------



## Juneway (Feb 5, 2020)

For the N6 pros anyone experience any hissing when watching videos with silent background? Btw is popping sound at the start and end of each video count as hiss?


----------



## gibletzor

clerkpalmer said:


> Yikes. That's shameful Samsung. Hoping they come free with the soon to be mine s20 ultra...


Oh my I've been salivating over the S20 Ultra for the last month.  I'm really hoping they include the Buds+ as a pre-order bonus!


----------



## clerkpalmer

gibletzor said:


> Oh my I've been salivating over the S20 Ultra for the last month.  I'm really hoping they include the Buds+ as a pre-order bonus!


Me too but what about the Fold 2? It’s coming too?


----------



## axhng (Feb 5, 2020)

gibletzor said:


> Oh my I've been salivating over the S20 Ultra for the last month.  I'm really hoping they include the Buds+ as a pre-order bonus!



There's probably a good chance seeing that we've seen some rumours that it will be, and where i live, they did bundle the Galaxy Buds with the S10. But may vary depending on regions of course. Or they might eventually just go on discount shortly after like the current ones did. So far Samsung has been doing a pretty decent job with audio looking at the AKG tuned earbuds they've been doing, and how capable the current Galaxy buds are. So have high hopes for them.

TWS has come a really long way. I remember how bad things were on the IconX back in 2016. lol. If i recall I got less than 1.5 hours of music playback on them through bluetooth.


----------



## assassin10000 (Apr 27, 2020)

So did some more listening to my Mavin Air-XR.

They are a slightly L-shaped signature,  quality bass and it reaches deep. Fortunately it is not muddy sounding and does not bleed into the mids. Despite the slightly elevated bass quantity, it is quality and enjoyable. I prefer a more balanced signature and after burn in, this is very good. The mids and highs are also very good and aren't too far back due to the slightly elevated bass, no sibilance and vocals are good.

The overall detail and sound is a good step ahead of the Tronsmart Spunky Beats. Battery life for me is around 5.5-6hrs APT-X, 6hrs AAC & SBC on an Android phone.

I also got some foam tips that fit correctly, as I prefer foam and fortunately they fit the case too.
Link's here: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/best-iem-tips.626895/post-15454166



Note: I do use EQ and bring 31/62hz -4db and 125hz -2db and that makes them keepers for me.

________________________________________________

Also I've done some mods on my X12 Pro's, figured I'd share here.

I reshaped my X12 pro's for a better fit (for me), using a file. Hard to photograph but I kind of un-shroud the main opening and give it a larger radius. This lets it sit a little more forward and takes enough pressure off that I'm no longer feeling a hotspot in my ear canals. I also use a small razor around the small openings to give it a bevel.






I previously posted this but I do use them with earbud foams that I mod with a hole I make using a 3mm punch. Keeps more bass in and makes it a more stable fit, without needing to use the provided 'wings' that do not fit the charging case. The foams do fit fine in the case, just have to lightly press the earpieces into place.




I spent some time today modding my 'brand-used' X12 Pro case with the Qi wireless charger taken from a bad E12 set.

The X12 & E12 have different circuit boards and retainers as the charging posts are aligned differently. You can't use an X12 in an E12 case and vise versa.

Once I had the cases apart I saw the circuit board had the input provision to for the wireless charger.



It was necessary to remove the original thicker double sided foam from between the battery and circuit board holder. That was replaced with 3m double sided foam, the automotive stuff that is grey. I actually stretch it so it's thinner as well.

To fit everything I filed the bottom of the cupped areas that the earbuds point down into for a little more room inside.

The Qi coil from the E12 also uses a thicker double sided black foam, which I replaced with the stretched grey 3m stuff as well. The E12 case has more room inside as the cups are not as deep. No idea why as the X12 is a much shallower fit.


----------



## antdroid (Feb 6, 2020)

Here's my review of the Sabbat E12 Ultra TWS: https://www.antdroid.net/2020/02/sabbat-e12-ultra-true-wireless-review.html

*Overall*
The Sabbat E12 Ultra is priced at $79 and I find it quite serviceable at this price point. It’s quite a bit cheaper than the other True Wireless in-ears I own and it’s biggest drawback is that it’s resolution and imaging aren’t on the same level, and that it’s bass can be a little dominating at times, however I found it very warm and enjoyable for the most part.

The comfort along with it’s wireless charging case make this stand-out and I am mostly surprised and enjoyed using these during the past month carrying these around for reviewing instead of my normal Galaxy Buds I use for on-the-go usage. (I still prefer Galaxy Buds over E12 Ultra)


----------



## gocam

Ok - I have four sets in rotation right now. A quick summary of where my listening is at, and tips that have worked for me 

1. Nuarl 6P - by far these are the most natural, enjoyable set to listen to for extended period, regardless the source. I find myself loving the sound, 
Connectivity : Rock Solid. 
Comfort & Fit: Surprisingly easy and comfortable to wear despite the large form factor and relative heft. The provide excellent passive isolation.
Tips : Spinfit CP 360s provide a good fit for me

2. Maven Air-Xr Qi - these are heavy on the bass, but provide an enjoyable soundstage. If they had an app, I'd EQ down the lows.
Connectivity : Rock Solid. 
Comfort & Fit : Super lightweight, great isolation. Easy to grab and go on the bike.
Tips : After trying spinfits, foams, I settled on the oval silicon tips they ship with, which provided the best isolation and sound for me

3. Libratone Track Air + - once I got a good fit they sounded very aggressive, perhaps a bit metallic, definitely bass forward even with the neutral EQ setting. The isolation even with the best tips I found is quite poor though so it sort of requires ANC. The app is bizarre in how you dial the ANC in and out - Smart mode works well except when you are walking when it detects and puts in too much passthrough 
Connectivity: Prone to occasional dropouts compared to my other units
Comfort & Fit : These were a nightmare for me to find something that worked. The tips they ship with provided bad isolation and given the strange shallow connection point they tended to smoosh against the surface of my ear, so I looked for something with a little longer interior barrel. Once in, they are so light you can forget about them though
Tips : Spinfit CP 100z's -- after trying 360s', foam, shipped tips, the tips I had accumulated from my other IEMs, these are the only ones that stayed attached, and went deep enough to provide reasonable bass and isolation. All other tips for me sounded flat. I wonder if this is why the default sound signature feels like it has overly boosted lows when you use a good 3rd party tip

4. Mifo O7 - I've written of these before. Want to like them but the bass distortion is absolutely horrible even at low volumes, much worse than others. I am trying a replacement and I'll report back with what I found ( try Mona Lisa by De Staat for almost constant clipping in my unit)
Connectivity : Totally solid
Comfort & Fit : More comfortable than the Track Air +s as they have a more rounded form factor despite being slightly heavier. No complaints
Tips : Same tips work on this as with my Nuarl 6Ps - the CP 360s are fine. Good isolation, no complaints

So in order of goodness :

Nuarl 6P >> Mavis Air-Xr Qi > Libratone Track Air +

all are perfectly good sets but the only one I think that even approaches regular IEM sound is the 6P. The Xr is a terrific compromise set, the track air + is skewed mass consumer sound for pop I think, and the jury out on the O7s until I get a replacement.


----------



## assassin10000 (Feb 6, 2020)

gocam said:


> 2. Maven Air-Xr Qi - these are heavy on the bass, but provide an enjoyable soundstage. If they had an app, I'd EQ down the lows.
> Connectivity : Rock Solid.
> Comfort & Fit : Super lightweight, great isolation. Easy to grab and go on the bike.
> Tips : After trying spinfits, foams, I settled on the oval silicon tips they ship with, which provided the best isolation and sound for me
> ...



Agreed.

Fortunately, I have rooted my Android phone and have viper4android which is a system level EQ, so I'm able to lower the bass to a more balanced level.

In any case still considering either the N6 or N6 pro for my next set.


----------



## Bartig (Feb 6, 2020)

tma6 said:


> Fantastic review! Now if only I could convince you to try the Nuarl N6 Pros..


I can't get them with return option from Amazon and they're a bit out of my review scope, so that's why I'm holding back at this point...



hifi80sman said:


> I definitely understand there may be some manufacturing variances with Chi-Fi, so my impressions are not in disagreement with yours, simply a different experience.
> 
> I also found the ANC was effective, but ambient mode on mine was off, as the open mic on the L earbud was WAY sensitive and let in a lot of noise, while the R earbud open mic was hardly picked up anything.  Was your set like this?
> 
> I thought the bass was great, but the treble sounded very metallic and artificial, definitely more than the L2P, which is not necessarily natural.


Wow, if anything, I find the L2P sounds way more metallic and artificial. There's a clear audible hiss on the L2P when upper-mids kick in, whereas the Edifier actually rolls the highs off quick, delivering a more smooth sound. Did you up the Edifier treble in an equalizer?

As for the ambient sound, I don't really notice a difference on the left and right.


----------



## Firevortex

clerkpalmer said:


> On a brighter note, I repurchased the mw07 plus for like the 10th now that I'm back to android. I really think these are still the gold standard for sq notwithstanding crinnacles trashing of them (and I pay to subscribe to him). The ANC is weak sauce but it's better than nothing. Takes the edge off the hum.



how does it compare to the N6p in SQ?


----------



## erockg

Got the Cleer Ally Plus last night.  Going to give them a whirl all day today and see what they've got.


----------



## tma6

erockg said:


> Got the Cleer Ally Plus last night.  Going to give them a whirl all day today and see what they've got.



These look awesome! Did you get them off their website? Also how are the first impressions?


----------



## hifi80sman

erockg said:


> Got the Cleer Ally Plus last night.  Going to give them a whirl all day today and see what they've got.


Where did you get them from?  They only have White on their website right now.


----------



## hifi80sman

Bartig said:


> I can't get them with return option from Amazon and they're a bit out of my review scope, so that's why I'm holding back at this point...
> 
> 
> Wow, if anything, I find the L2P sounds way more metallic and artificial. There's a clear audible hiss on the L2P when upper-mids kick in, whereas the Edifier actually rolls the highs off quick, delivering a more smooth sound. Did you up the Edifier treble in an equalizer?
> ...


I may have to try them again.  Sounds like I may have received a bad pair in more ways than one.


----------



## erockg (Feb 6, 2020)

tma6 said:


> These look awesome! Did you get them off their website? Also how are the first impressions?


Amazon.  They are nice.  Case is aluminum and about as big as the MW07 case, but lighter.  Metal is a matte finish, no fingerprints, but has a clear plastic window on the top.  Headphones are very light.  Love the swipe up and down for volume like my old Bragi Dash Pros.  Music pauses when you take one bud out.  Tap controls for play/pause, ANC and Passthrough.  Still toying with tips and fit.  Comply Smartcore Med seem to work best for me so far.  ANC is better than the Libratone Track Air+.  I can barely hear voices in my office but the hum of everything around me is gone.  Love that.  Still testing them out...


----------



## erockg

hifi80sman said:


> Where did you get them from?  They only have White on their website right now.


Amazon.


----------



## tma6

erockg said:


> Amazon.  They are nice.  Case is aluminum and about as big as the MW07 case, but lighter.  Metal is a matte finish, no fingerprints, but has a clear plastic window on the top.  Headphones are very light.  Love the swipe up and down for volume like my old Bragi Dash Pros.  Music pauses when you take one bud out.  Tap controls for play/pause, ANC and Passthrough.  Still toying with tips and fit.  Comply Smartcore Med seem to work best for me so far.  ANC is better than the Libratone Track Air+.  I can barely hear voices in my office but the hum of everything around me is gone.  Love that.  Still testing them out...



Thanks for this! They sound promising. What's the SQ like?


----------



## rhsauer

erockg said:


> Amazon.  They are nice.  Case is aluminum and about as big as the MW07 case, but lighter.  Metal is a matte finish, no fingerprints, but has a clear plastic window on the top.  Headphones are very light.  Love the swipe up and down for volume like my old Bragi Dash Pros.  Music pauses when you take one bud out.  Tap controls for play/pause, ANC and Passthrough.  Still toying with tips and fit.  Comply Smartcore Med seem to work best for me so far.  ANC is better than the Libratone Track Air+.  I can barely hear voices in my office but the hum of everything around me is gone.  Love that.  Still testing them out...


Cool.  I'm anxious to hear (i) what the sound signature is like, (ii) whether the fit is comfortable and the seal is good (they look substantially larger than the Libratones in the pictures on Amazon), (iii) whether there's an app (with an equalizer and a path to upgrade firmware), (iv) what the battery life is like with ANC enabled (they quote 10 hours with ANC off), and (v) what the outgoing call quality is like (since I've vowed never to buy another set of earphones that don't work well for phone calls).  Enjoy them!


----------



## Sebulr

base08 said:


> Some days ago I discussed about the SBC vs AAC vs APTX issue, fueled by my disappointment regarding the unsupported AAC codec on the Bomaker Sifi, which for an iPhone user is a problem because you are limited to SBC....


Weird, my bomaker sifi connect via aac to Huawei mate 20 lite fine. Is it an iPhone incompatibility problem or an older batch? I've had mine 2 weeks?


----------



## erockg

tma6 said:


> Thanks for this! They sound promising. What's the SQ like?


I'm still having a fit issue for my ears.  Depending on the tips, the bass crackles, but I think it's how they're sitting in my ears.  I'm back to the stock tips and I don't hear an issue.  The soundstage is good, better than the


rhsauer said:


> Cool.  I'm anxious to hear (i) what the sound signature is like, (ii) whether the fit is comfortable and the seal is good (they look substantially larger than the Libratones in the pictures on Amazon), (iii) whether there's an app (with an equalizer and a path to upgrade firmware), (iv) what the battery life is like with ANC enabled (they quote 10 hours with ANC off), and (v) what the outgoing call quality is like (since I've vowed never to buy another set of earphones that don't work well for phone calls).  Enjoy them!


In order of your asks:  (i) a little wider than the Libratone.  Deeper bass.  Still listening... they definitely sound fuller.  (ii) having a hard time with the seal/tips.  But getting there.  I always have a hard time with my right ear.  The Libratone feel as if you have nothing in our ears, like the APP.  (iii) Sadly, no Cleer app.  Maybe they'll have one in the future?  (iv) have not tested battery life yet.  But even if they last 6 hours with ANC on, I'm happy.  (v) Call quality was perfectly fine indoors.  Have not done an outside call test yet.  That said, I did walk outside and there were zero dropouts walking down the sidewalk or in crosswalks.  I really wish the Cleer Ally Plus had a Qi charging.  It does have USB-C.  Will go on another outdoor trek soon!


----------



## rhsauer

erockg said:


> I'm still having a fit issue for my ears.  Depending on the tips, the bass crackles, but I think it's how they're sitting in my ears.  I'm back to the stock tips and I don't hear an issue.  The soundstage is good, better than the
> 
> In order of your asks:  (i) a little wider than the Libratone.  Deeper bass.  Still listening... they definitely sound fuller.  (ii) having a hard time with the seal/tips.  But getting there.  I always have a hard time with my right ear.  The Libratone feel as if you have nothing in our ears, like the APP.  (iii) Sadly, no Cleer app.  Maybe they'll have one in the future?  (iv) have not tested battery life yet.  But even if they last 6 hours with ANC on, I'm happy.  (v) Call quality was perfectly fine indoors.  Have not done an outside call test yet.  That said, I did walk outside and there were zero dropouts walking down the sidewalk or in crosswalks.  I really wish the Cleer Ally Plus had a Qi charging.  It does have USB-C.  Will go on another outdoor trek soon!


Thanks -- and I appreciate you ordering your responses to align with my asks!  It's notable that the Cleer's have more bass, even if you're not yet getting a great seal.  I have the Libratone set on the bass boosted setting in the app, which provides plenty of bass.


----------



## FYLegend (Feb 6, 2020)

Going for the Muzili EA10. Similar dual driver design to the SoundPeats TrueEngine SE but has Type C and was only 40$ on lightning sale today.


----------



## jant71 (Feb 6, 2020)

Radius has a TWS in a nice green. Might it sound good?? 32 ohm is one good sign...


----------



## DynamicEars

jant71 said:


> Radius has a TWS in a nice green. Might it sound good?? 32 ohm is one good sign...



sounds quite promising with DD+BA, I wonder how their new tips for tws since they are not using their signature deep mount eartips for this one


----------



## hifi80sman

erockg said:


> I'm still having a fit issue for my ears.  Depending on the tips, the bass crackles, but I think it's how they're sitting in my ears.  I'm back to the stock tips and I don't hear an issue.  The soundstage is good, better than the
> 
> In order of your asks:  (i) a little wider than the Libratone.  Deeper bass.  Still listening... they definitely sound fuller.  (ii) having a hard time with the seal/tips.  But getting there.  I always have a hard time with my right ear.  The Libratone feel as if you have nothing in our ears, like the APP.  (iii) Sadly, no Cleer app.  Maybe they'll have one in the future?  (iv) have not tested battery life yet.  But even if they last 6 hours with ANC on, I'm happy.  (v) Call quality was perfectly fine indoors.  Have not done an outside call test yet.  That said, I did walk outside and there were zero dropouts walking down the sidewalk or in crosswalks.  I really wish the Cleer Ally Plus had a Qi charging.  It does have USB-C.  Will go on another outdoor trek soon!


Do the controls have track skip?  The manual mentions play/pause, volume, ANC, Ambient, ANC/Ambient Off, but I didn't see any track controls.


----------



## gocam

rhsauer said:


> Thanks -- and I appreciate you ordering your responses to align with my asks!  It's notable that the Cleer's have more bass, even if you're not yet getting a great seal.  I have the Libratone set on the bass boosted setting in the app, which provides plenty of bass.


 
With the libratones and the cp100z tips the bass is fairly lifted even on the default eq setting for me. So much so I'd consider eqing to the treble boost ! What tips are you using ?


----------



## rhsauer (Feb 6, 2020)

gocam said:


> With the libratones and the cp100z tips the bass is fairly lifted even on the default eq setting for me. So much so I'd consider eqing to the treble boost ! What tips are you using ?


I've actually (and atypically) been using the default tips that came with the earphones, in size large.  I think I have some cp100z tips around and if I can find them, I'll see how they impact the bass.  EDIT:  Tried the cp100z tips and, for me, they don't isolate to the extent the default tips do.  I guess I just like more bass


----------



## erockg

hifi80sman said:


> Do the controls have track skip?  The manual mentions play/pause, volume, ANC, Ambient, ANC/Ambient Off, but I didn't see any track controls.


Sadly, no track controls.


----------



## cleg

My video review of BGVP Q2



Spoiler: it's not perfect, but it's really promising


----------



## BigZ12

erockg said:


> Sadly, no track controls.


That's actually quite strange, and a dealbreaker.
But it's as all products nowadays... it's always something missing, not working or not optimal. It's obviously impossible to make a 100% product.


----------



## Caipirina

BigZ12 said:


> That's actually quite strange, and a dealbreaker.
> But it's as all products nowadays... it's always something missing, not working or not optimal. It's obviously impossible to make a 100% product.


They do that on purpose, so you keep looking around, testing, buying more than one


----------



## RobinFood

hifi80sman said:


> Where did you get them from?  They only have White on their website right now.





hifi80sman said:


> I may have to try them again.  Sounds like I may have received a bad pair in more ways than one.





BigZ12 said:


> That's actually quite strange, and a dealbreaker.
> But it's as all products nowadays... it's always something missing, not working or not optimal. It's obviously impossible to make a 100% product.



Yeah, what's so difficult about making an ipx8 twe with godly anc, a fully customizable controls in app, Andromeda level sound quality, support for ldac and aptx hd, with a USB c charger.

I guess we aren't quite there yet, looking at all the compromises the current sets have the Sony ones look really good. I really am debating on getting them over the Nuarl n6 upgrade for commutes, but my ER4XRs might get lonely


----------



## rhsauer

RobinFood said:


> Yeah, what's so difficult about making an ipx8 twe with godly anc, a fully customizable controls in app, Andromeda level sound quality, support for ldac and aptx hd, with a USB c charger.
> 
> I guess we aren't quite there yet, looking at all the compromises the current sets have the Sony ones look really good. I really am debating on getting them over the Nuarl n6 upgrade for commutes, but my ER4XRs might get lonely


You forgot “so comfortable you forget you‘re wearing them, 10 hour battery life, transparency mode, easy device switching, and flawless outgoing call quality.”  Is that too much to ask for?


----------



## sanity8me

Question for MW07 Plus owners - does the ANC do a decent job at minimizing or eliminating noises around you so that the other person/people on a call don't hear it?


----------



## voicemaster

sanity8me said:


> Question for MW07 Plus owners - does the ANC do a decent job at minimizing or eliminating noises around you so that the other person/people on a call don't hear it?


U got mixed up between ANC and CVC. ANC is what you and only you will hear. While CVC is the noise reduction from your surrounding for your phone call so it is the person on the other line will experience.


----------



## AtariPrime

This is my full and final review (maybe) of the *Urbanista Athens* earbuds.

*Basics:*
As you may (or may not) know, Urbanista is a relatively small technology company based out of Sweden.  They specialize in a variety of headphones and earbuds.  Their style tilts toward ‘urban’ use, hence the name.  One of their newer models, the Athens, is meant for athletic use. 

Battery:  8 hrs.
Case: 32 hrs.
IP67 Rating
USB-C
Bluetooth 5.0

*Delivery:*
I purchased these back in October of last year, directly from Urbanista.  They finally showed up some time in early-January.  Urbanista isn’t exactly the best at communication, so I was largely in the dark during this time on the reasons why the slow delivery.  Emails sent through their website and messages on Facebook go to Sweden and seem to take a minimum of 48 hours to get a response.  In short, they arrived, but Urbanista could do quite a bit better job of keeping customers informed of the status of their package.  Of note, you can now purchase them on Amazon as well, so many of the issues with dealing directly with Urbanista should be alleviated.

*Function:*
Battery life seems to be approximately as indicated, getting around 8 hrs. of use before needing a recharge.  The case is easy enough to use.  The case uses magnets, and the earbuds slide into place with a nice click.  There is no doubting that they were placed properly.  Have not had any issues with proper placement in the case.  The case is very small and has a slightly textured finish that is very soft to the touch.

When ready to place them in your ears, the earbuds are easily removed from the case.  These are some of the smallest earbuds on the market but are easy to hold.  They have a slightly rubberized finish.  When pairing or conducting various commands, an led circle lights up.  No worries though, this turns off soon after the command is complete.  When in normal use, there are no lights on the earbuds.

Placing them in your ears is easy.  You simply push it into your ear and give it a slight twist which locks in in place.  I used the default tips, though they come with various wings and tips to suit a variety of ears. 

The earbuds themselves use physical buttons that you press in order to change tracks, volume, etc.  The button pressure required is moderate.  I did not experience any discomfort with using them at any time.  Also, the general controls are intuitive and largely standard across the industry.

I have had some connectivity issues that a can’t fully explain.  When using them at the gym, I encounter a few dropouts.  I don’t think this is the fault of the earbuds though, but more the fault of my phone.  I currently use an iPhone SE which is a somewhat older phone and is not able to take advantage of Bluetooth 5.0 as it is only capable of Bluetooth 4.2.  I will likely be getting a new phone in March though and will provide an update to this aspect then.  For reasons I can’t explain though, when using the earbuds in my office and the same phone, range seems to improve greatly.  I am able to go around 50 ft. away from my phone without issue, even going through walls an partitions before any dropouts are experienced.

*Sound:*
I really like how these sound.  I am not an advocate for a ‘flat’ sound curve.  No artist intended their music to be heard that way.  These are slightly geared toward bass lovers.  I wouldn’t say they thump as hard as a Sony XB90, but they have plenty of bass, instrument separation, with slightly recessed highs.  The sound signature is very pleasing and ideal for a gym environment with songs ranging from rock, to pop, to techno. 

The only complaint I have in the sound department is volume.  I don’t know if it is a product of Bluetooth or an attempt by Urbanista to save battery, but volume doesn’t get quite as loud as I want it to.  I would prefer they give me the option to turn the volume up higher even if that did cost me my hearing or battery life.

Also worth noting, these are a sound isolation design, meaning no active or passive noise cancelling.  These try to block out everything around you, and do fairly good job at it.

*Design:*
As noted above, the earbuds are some of the smallest on the market.  That was a big reason why I bought these.  They don’t stick out of your ears very much at all. 

Another reason why I bought these was battery life.  Their battery life is better than most others out there and will last around 8 hrs. before needing a charge. 

Also, they are waterproof.  You can go swimming in these if you want to, but I’m not sure why you would as Bluetooth doesn’t travel through water.

*Summary:*

The Good
- Great battery life
- Compact design
- Waterproof
- Nice bass response
- Price

The Bad
- Experienced a few dropouts (but may be my phone’s fault)
- Could be louder

Would I recommend these over other options out there?  Yes, but only if the dropouts are my phone’s fault.  Dropouts are a dealbreaker, even one is too many.

Below are few pictures.  I will update my review once I get a new phone.


----------



## erockg

For those wondering if there will be an app created for the Cleer Ally Plus.  Here’s their response to me:

“
There will not be a companion app for Cleer Ally Plus.

To explain, while most of our competitors like Bose and Jabra have companion apps to customize EQ settings or NC levels, we chose to have a longer battery life.

In the current chipset market, you have to choose either added app functionality or longer battery life (low energy bluetooth)- no chipset maker offers both.

While this will certainly change in the future, we currently have chosen to launch the Ally Plus with industry leading battery life (5 hours _more_ than Bose or Jabra per charge).”


----------



## sanity8me

voicemaster said:


> U got mixed up between ANC and CVC. ANC is what you and only you will hear. While CVC is the noise reduction from your surrounding for your phone call so it is the person on the other line will experience.



Thanks for clarifying.  What's my best option for CVC in terms of TWS in-ears?


----------



## GeeD

AtariPrime said:


> No artist intended their music to be heard that way.



I’ve seen a few folk say this but I really have to disagree.  There is an awful lot of time spent in the studio getting the track just right.  Artists have no control, however, over the equipment used to reproduce what was meant to be heard.

just a thought


----------



## rhsauer

erockg said:


> For those wondering if there will be an app created for the Cleer Ally Plus.  Here’s their response to me:
> 
> “
> There will not be a companion app for Cleer Ally Plus.
> ...


Thanks — Interesting!  I guess that (no app) is also why the MW07+ has such long battery life, even with (weak-sauce) ANC.  And I guess this is why we really can’t, at this point, have it all.  I suppose in a year or so, when Bluetooth LE Audio becomes standard, we will be able to have it all — but by then there will be other specs we want and expect.


----------



## hifi80sman (Feb 7, 2020)

GeeD said:


> I’ve seen a few folk say this but I really have to disagree.  There is an awful lot of time spent in the studio getting the track just right.  Artists have no control, however, over the equipment used to reproduce what was meant to be heard.
> 
> just a thought


I think this argument is really a non-argument, since we all have our preferences and will EQ here & there to hit our sweet spot.  I'm sure the Beatles didn't intend for me to add some monster sub-bass to any of their tracks, but that's what I fully intend to do.  In fact, I'm going to add even more just because they didn't intend for me to do that.


----------



## hifi80sman

erockg said:


> Sadly, no track controls.


What's weird, is I asked them on Amazon and they said it does, or at least they suggest it does.  I tend to believe you more than them.


----------



## erockg (Feb 7, 2020)

hifi80sman said:


> What's weird, is I asked them on Amazon and they said it does, or at least they suggest it does.  I tend to believe you more than them.


I can't figure it out.  I rarely skip tracks when I'm cranking Maiden.  But I did figure out how to summon Siri.  That isn't in their manual either.  Tap/hold triggers Siri.  Odd they didn't put that in the manual or maybe I just missed it.


----------



## AtariPrime

GeeD said:


> I’ve seen a few folk say this but I really have to disagree.  There is an awful lot of time spent in the studio getting the track just right.  Artists have no control, however, over the equipment used to reproduce what was meant to be heard.
> 
> just a thought



Music is produced in such a way that will allow it to play well across a variety of speakers and formats, which has little to do with how it was intended to be listened to.  If you want to hear how an artist means for a song to be heard go to their concert.  At most concerts you will find the bass is cranked up and the highs rolled off to avoid creating sounds that most consider undesirable if not painful.


----------



## brtalush

erockg said:


> I can't figure it out.  I rarely skip tracks when I'm cranking Maiden.  But I did figure out how to summon Siri.  That isn't in their manual either.  Tap/hold and Siri chimes.  Odd they didn't put that in the manual or maybe I just missed it.


Did you test battery life with ANC on ?


----------



## erockg (Feb 7, 2020)

brtalush said:


> Did you test battery life with ANC on ?


Not really.  I've had them out of the case for 4 hours so far and they're at 70%.  ANC has been on and I've taken a 30 minute phone call outside and the caller didn't have any issues hearing me.


----------



## erockg

Just dropped to 60%


----------



## assassin10000

It'd be cool if they had track forward/back be swipe forwards/backwards. Since they already got volume as swipe up/down...


----------



## erockg

assassin10000 said:


> It'd be cool if they had track forward/back be swipe forwards/backwards. Since they already got volume as swipe up/down...


Agreed but it will never happen if they do not have firmware updates.  Maybe in the next gen!  They do sound damn good though.


----------



## erockg

erockg said:


> Just dropped to 60%


6 hours still at 40%


----------



## clerkpalmer

sanity8me said:


> Thanks for clarifying.  What's my best option for CVC in terms of TWS in-ears?


The mw07 uses cvc for music as well. It's not limited to phone calls. To answer the original question, the noise cancelling in the mw07 doesn't do much. It takes the slightest edge off the background but if you are looking for ANC I would look elsewhere. I use it on my mw07 and find it useful but only useful in the sense that it's better than nothing.


----------



## Slothstronaught

Like everyone else I've been trying to find the perfect TWS earbuds. Besides the standards (good sound, battery life, and connection quality), I really want pass-though audio, full control of all functions from the earbuds, and a smaller form factor. I was really curious about the Cleer Ally Plus, but they're a little bulky and don't have track control, not a complete deal breaker, but not ideal for me. I had the Soundcore Liberty Air 2, but I didn't realize they didn't have full controls, nor how much I needed pass-through audio with my lifestyle.

I've tried to do a lot of research and I was hoping to get some insight or opinions from you guys on a couple options. The only options I've really found are the Mifo 05 plus/ pro and the Jabra Elite 75t. If you guys have any suggestions though please let me know. I'd love to hear your opinions!


----------



## erockg (Feb 7, 2020)

Slothstronaught said:


> Like everyone else I've been trying to find the perfect TWS earbuds. Besides the standards (good sound, battery life, and connection quality), I really want pass-though audio, full control of all functions from the earbuds, and a smaller form factor. I was really curious about the Cleer Ally Plus, but they're a little bulky and don't have track control, not a complete deal breaker, but not ideal for me. I had the Soundcore Liberty Air 2, but I didn't realize they didn't have full controls, nor how much I needed pass-through audio with my lifestyle.
> 
> I've tried to do a lot of research and I was hoping to get some insight or opinions from you guys on a couple options. The only options I've really found are the Mifo 05 plus/ pro and the Jabra Elite 75t. If you guys have any suggestions though please let me know. I'd love to hear your opinions!


The Soundcore LP 2 are much bigger and do not fit as well as the Cleer Ally Pro.  The CAP has great passthrough and decent (not Sony/APP) ANC.  Passthrough and ANC are important to me.  Unless you can get great passive isolation like the MTW, Beoplay and the like.  Had the Jabra Elite 75t but you can’t use L or R independently and they seemed to have a L/R balance issue.   Maybe I’ll revisit when the new firmware comes out.  It’s supposed to upgrade them to let you use the L or R independently.


----------



## FYLegend

AtariPrime said:


> This is my full and final review (maybe) of the *Urbanista Athens* earbuds.


Thanks for the review - which device are you using for it? I had seen these at London Drugs in Canada for 170$ and was wondering how they would sound. I had read TechRadar's review saying the audio crackles among other things which was pretty unassuring.


----------



## Infoseeker (Feb 8, 2020)

The noble audio falcon seem to be doing well in amazon.jp

https://www.amazon.co.jp/Noble-audio-FALCON-NOB-FALCON-トゥルーワイヤレスイヤホン完全ワイヤレス/dp/B07Z8XFJXB?

*EDIT: *nevermind everything truly wireless seems to have good reviews on there. Probably not trustworthy.


----------



## RobinFood

Infoseeker said:


> The noble audio falcon seem to be doing well in amazon.jp
> 
> https://www.amazon.co.jp/Noble-audio-FALCON-NOB-FALCON-トゥルーワイヤレスイヤホン完全ワイヤレス/dp/B07Z8XFJXB?
> 
> *EDIT: *nevermind everything truly wireless seems to have good reviews on there. Probably not trustworthy.



As a frequent shopper on Amazon.co.jp, not everything does as well as the falcon seems to.
That being said, I wasn't the biggest fan of the long tips. It does sound pretty good and has a lot of the more important features, though.


----------



## Caipirina

Received my back up pair of Sabbath X12 and I am overall very happy. At 31$ I feared I’d get some knock off or returned set. But it came factory sealed in the familiar box and works / sounds overall as expected. With 2 minor exceptions:
While I did a good 70minute run this morning with no connection drops whatsoever, when I sit at my desk, I get the weirdest BT stutter on occasion. Yes, there’s wifi and other BT sources, but that has not been an issue so far. The other thing is bizarre and amusing: the left bud’s auto-voice is English (and I swear this lady says ‘connected?’ with an audible question mark) while the right ear bud still speaks Chinese!!!!


----------



## assassin10000 (Feb 8, 2020)

Caipirina said:


> Received my back up pair of Sabbath X12 and I am overall very happy. At 31$ I feared I’d get some knock off or returned set. But it came factory sealed in the familiar box and works / sounds overall as expected. With 2 minor exceptions:
> While I did a good 70minute run this morning with no connection drops whatsoever, when I sit at my desk, I get the weirdest BT stutter on occasion. Yes, there’s wifi and other BT sources, but that has not been an issue so far. The other thing is bizarre and amusing: the left bud’s auto-voice is English (and I swear this lady says ‘connected?’ with an audible question mark) while the right ear bud still speaks Chinese!!!!



I'd try a factory reset them so they aren't paired together (hold buttons for 10-15 seconds, should make 2 sets of tones). 

If that doesn't work. Reset again, then I'd turn the right one on and tap 5x to change between English and Chinese. Then reset again, turn both on and let them pair together, and re-pair to your device. Kinda a pita lol.


----------



## webvan (Feb 8, 2020)

Caipirina said:


> Received my back up pair of Sabbath X12 and I am overall very happy. At 31$ I feared I’d get some knock off or returned set. But it came factory sealed in the familiar box and works / sounds overall as expected. With 2 minor exceptions:
> While I did a good 70minute run this morning with no connection drops whatsoever, when I sit at my desk, I get the weirdest BT stutter on occasion. Yes, there’s wifi and other BT sources, but that has not been an issue so far. The other thing is bizarre and amusing: the left bud’s auto-voice is English (and I swear this lady says ‘connected?’ with an audible question mark) while the right ear bud still speaks Chinese!!!!



Nice move on having some backups, glad I have some too ! It's the USB-C version, right ? I don't think anyone here ever got the QC3020 version ?

I'm still toying with the idea of getting the GGMM T1 for when it's really windy as the X12 really "catch" the wind pretty bad. I can't see any other TWEs that would work well for running at this point. I might try to run with my Bomakers that have less "thump" it seems with the misodiko shiny foams.


----------



## Caipirina

assassin10000 said:


> I'd try a factory reset them so they aren't paired together (hold buttons for 10-15 seconds, should make 2 sets of tones).
> 
> If that doesn't work. Reset again, then I'd turn the right one on and tap 5x to change between English and Chinese. Then reset again, turn both on and let them pair together, and re-pair to your device. Kinda a pita lol.


Is that to fix the language issue? Honestly, I don't mind, I still have some sets that only speak Chinese and I think I kinda have figured out what they say (not really, but good enough) ... for that I might skip the PITA
if on the other hand this is to make BT more stable, that's worth a try.


----------



## GeeD

hifi80sman said:


> I think this argument is really a non-argument, since we all have our preferences and will EQ here & there to hit our sweet spot. I'm sure the Beatles didn't intend for me to add some monster sub-bass to any of their tracks, but that's what I fully intend to do. In fact, I'm going to add even more just because they didn't intend for me to do that.



Absolutely, it's about user preference, and that's what we should be telling the reader     ...mind you ..."monster sub-base" ..."Beatles" that's tantamount to blasphemy 



AtariPrime said:


> Music is produced in such a way that will allow it to play well across a variety of speakers and formats, which has little to do with how it was intended to be listened to. If you want to hear how an artist means for a song to be heard go to their concert. At most concerts you will find the bass is cranked up and the highs rolled off to avoid creating sounds that most consider undesirable if not painful.



Yea, live music is a whole different dynamic, which often doesn't record well for playing back in your living room.  Although, I've been to some damned awful concerts where it was maybe sounding good in their monitors but what we got I'm sure wasn't intended, lol


----------



## voicemaster

GeeD said:


> Absolutely, it's about user preference, and that's what we should be telling the reader     ...mind you ..."monster sub-base" ..."Beatles" that's tantamount to blasphemy
> 
> 
> 
> Yea, live music is a whole different dynamic, which often doesn't record well for playing back in your living room.  Although, I've been to some damned awful concerts where it was maybe sounding good in their monitors but what we got I'm sure wasn't intended, lol


Trust me, 90% of sound engineer has hearing lost. If you go to a concert and the high is piercing, chances are the head engineer can't hear those spike in frequency already and to him/her, this sounds good but for normal people it is piercing af.


----------



## hifi80sman

GeeD said:


> Absolutely, it's about user preference, and that's what we should be telling the reader  ...mind you ..."monster sub-base" ..."Beatles" that's tantamount to blasphemy


I'm a contrarian.  I rarely do what others intend for me to do.   

I think the phrase "what the artist intended" has turned into a marketing ploy.  First, we have no idea what the artist intended.  Did they mix based on the type of gear most mainstream consumers have?  What genre?  Second, Dr. Dre said we're not hearing "all the music", so that's why we need to buy Beats.  Not to bash Beats, because I think the Solo3 & Studio3 sound good, especially for mobile use and the gym, but clearly, if you want to hear "all the music", you're not going to be listening wirelessly and not going to be using either of those.


----------



## gocam

gocam said:


> Ok - I have four sets in rotation right now. A quick summary of where my listening is at, and tips that have worked for me
> 
> 1. Nuarl 6P - by far these are the most natural, enjoyable set to listen to for extended period, regardless the source. I find myself loving the sound,
> Connectivity : Rock Solid.
> ...



Ok - received my replacement Mifo O7s - exactly the same issue as before on precisely the same songs and more - any sort of deep bass, regardless of volume, introduces metallic clipping and rattling - since bass by it's nature tends to be cyclic, this makes anything with any depth very hard to listen to. Very pleasant and comfortable to listen to folk and lighter fare. But both pairs of O7s going back, alas.


----------



## chinmie

GeeD said:


> Absolutely, it's about user preference, and that's what we should be telling the reader     ...mind you ..."monster sub-base" ..."Beatles" that's tantamount to blasphemy
> 
> 
> 
> Yea, live music is a whole different dynamic, which often doesn't record well for playing back in your living room.  Although, I've been to some damned awful concerts where it was maybe sounding good in their monitors but what we got I'm sure wasn't intended, lol



that's why i always carry an earplug to concerts... because I don't trust their level of EQ and decibel level 

i responded to people who wrote "just as the artist /audio engineers intended" so often in this forum that I started to get tired and just leave them be.
most who made that statement never worked in audio fields. even if they do, but still make that statement, they usually are not very adaptive to varying situations and have questionable work flow.


----------



## Jawis

gocam said:


> Mifo O7s - exactly the same issue as before on precisely the same songs and more - any sort of deep bass, regardless of volume, introduces metallic clipping and rattling - since bass by it's nature tends to be cyclic, this makes anything with any depth very hard to listen to.



Interesting that I have come across this complaint a few time on YouTube and forums. I'm not getting this issue with my Mifo 07. Bass is actually very nice and no clipping.

I have noticed the touch menu is different with mine to others as well. I can double double tap L/R headset respectively for back/fwd song, but have no single tap volume control at all. This seems different to some YouTube reviews I have seen.
I wonder if there are different versions of 07 out there?

Better still a f/w upgrade path would be great. I wouldn't mind getting volume control


----------



## gocam

Jawis said:


> Interesting that I have come across this complaint a few time on YouTube and forums. I'm not getting this issue with my Mifo 07. Bass is actually very nice and no clipping.
> 
> I have noticed the touch menu is different with mine to others as well. I can double double tap L/R headset respectively for back/fwd song, but have no single tap volume control at all. This seems different to some YouTube reviews I have seen.
> I wonder if there are different versions of 07 out there?
> ...



Very strange! I don't know that I am up for trying to replace for another pair but I guess I could try ? I did try upgrading firmware also. No difference. It's a shame as when it's not clipping it sounds not too bad to be honest.

I think I'm going to send back the track air +s also - the anc is required as it is so hard to get a solid fit that blocks sound passively and the mavin and nuarls just sound better, and have just as good isolation passively. They lack passthrough that's the only thing I miss.
 I mean, the track air +s sound ok, bit just not anything special. They are very light, bit so angular they are less comfy than you might expect.


----------



## jasonb

So the thread title asks if we're there yet.... I'm not sure. 

I think I'll be retiring my Galaxy Buds in favor of a Blon BL03 and an ES100. These $36 IEM's with the ES100 definitely sound much better to me than the Galaxy Buds.


----------



## voicemaster

jasonb said:


> So the thread title asks if we're there yet.... I'm not sure.
> 
> I think I'll be retiring my Galaxy Buds in favor of a Blon BL03 and an ES100. These $36 IEM's with the ES100 definitely sound much better to me than the Galaxy Buds.


if you like the Blon then you should definitely try Fiil T1X. It has similar characteristic to BL03 with more clarity imho.


----------



## jasonb

voicemaster said:


> if you like the Blon then you should definitely try Fiil T1X. It has similar characteristic to BL03 with more clarity imho.



I'm not sure how much clarity they can really have if they don't even support aptx.


----------



## hifi80sman

jasonb said:


> So the thread title asks if we're there yet.... I'm not sure.
> 
> I think I'll be retiring my Galaxy Buds in favor of a Blon BL03 and an ES100. These $36 IEM's with the ES100 definitely sound much better to me than the Galaxy Buds.


You may also want to consider the FiiO BTR5.  The FiiO App still needs some work, but there is a promising Beta out, so if you don't need all the additional features of the Radsone App, the FiiO BTR5 has overall better hardware (and USB C)


----------



## voicemaster

jasonb said:


> I'm not sure how much clarity they can really have if they don't even support aptx.


Fiil T1X is pretty weird as they use AAC as a default codec even on android.


----------



## turbobb

Here's a follow up to my last post with some bargain hunting:

First up, these: https://www.amazon.com/Bluetooth-Headphones-Sweatproof-Cancelling-Black/dp/B07NVDRLWL


are currently going for $19.99 on Amazon but they were $29.99 when I purchased them.This particular version is by Wensunnie and what drew me to these was they tout a hybrid BA/DD dual-driver arrangement (I do see identical looking TWS for over double the price but they don't tout the BA/DD). These are very light weight and can get quite loud, I normally listen about step 4-5 using the standard 15 step volume level on Android - with these I'm at level 1 and wish they could go lower (possible on Android by enabling the "Disable absolute volume" - but not possible on iOS). They feature very strong mid's - great for certain genre's but might not be to everyone's tastes. The bass is also quite strong and combined with the mid's and slightly tapered treble creates a muddy sounding profile. They do actually sound pretty decent with vocal's, strings, etc. but then they'd kinda be like a one-trick pony. I ran into some slight connectivity issues around downtown NYC and the right driver also had some distortion at louder volumes. So at the original price, I'd say absolutely not but at current price, might be worth a try for those who love strong bass/mid's and need a really loud TWS.

JeKaVis E01-B (https://www.amazon.com/JeKaVis-Bluetooth-Cancelling-Waterproof-Headphones/dp/B07VYYWD7X)

They're currently going for $23.99 and while I don't recall the original selling price (think it was above $35) I got them for $14.99 shortly before X-mas. At the price I purchased them for, they are fantastic - QCC3020, aptX, super comfy (for me) even if slightly bulbous, tiny case w/USB-C and decent runtime at about 4hrs (using JLab burn-in test on repeat with vol. at step 7 on Android), though it's an hour less than mfr claim. Its only major flaw was just an insanely overwhelming bass... For the price paid, I was sorely tempted to keep them and while I do enjoy a slight bump in bass, it's just too much to use them as daily drivers. If only they had less bass, these would be strong contenders at current asking price. I noticed that there are few brands using this same model but being sold under their own name so I was hoping that perhaps this particular brand just chose to tune the bass too high, as such, I also got the next set in the hopes that the bass tuning would be lower...

Enter Panfrey W1 (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07TWPS4X1)

So these show up as Panfrey W1 (and then R or L since they can both connect independently) while the previous set were just generic W1 confirming my suspicion about the same OEM producing these for a few companies. These are identical in every regard and had the same overwhelming bass. The only difference is that these last 5hrs using my same runtime testing procedure but still falls short of mfr claims (6-8 hours). They're currently going for $29.99 but I think they were originally $37.99 but had a $5 off coupon at the time I got them.


----------



## jasonb (Feb 8, 2020)

hifi80sman said:


> You may also want to consider the FiiO BTR5.  The FiiO App still needs some work, but there is a promising Beta out, so if you don't need all the additional features of the Radsone App, the FiiO BTR5 has overall better hardware (and USB C)



I already have the ES100. I may try the Qudelix if it ever exists as well.


----------



## tma6

erockg said:


> Agreed but it will never happen if they do not have firmware updates.  Maybe in the next gen!  They do sound damn good though.



Yo, sorry to keep bothering you about this. But these just came back on amazon and thinking about getting them. Just wondering what your overall thoughts are at this point. How’s the sound, controls, battery, calls, etc.Thanks a ton if you can!


----------



## jasonb

voicemaster said:


> Fiil T1X is pretty weird as they use AAC as a default codec even on android.



The Galaxy Buds use AAC on non Samsung Android phones as well.


----------



## Caipirina

chinmie said:


> i responded to people who wrote "just as the artist /audio engineers intended" so often in this forum that I started to get tired and just leave them be.


I am also kinda laughing and head shaking at that statement ... a whole generation is growing up on those mono BT speakers that sound more or less terrible, but are considered good as long as they have lots of bass! These kids are now discovering TWS ... and what we used to call 'stereo' is now known as 3D sound


----------



## thimantha

These look beautiful and promising, even though I don't like TWS with stems. 

https://thehouseofmarley.com.au/products/redemption-anc-wireless-earbuds

Has anyone here tried them?


----------



## SoundChoice

What is a possible quick fix for bad connections? Went on a bicycle ride with an Android phone in my shorts pocket sending BT to my TWS. Connection would drop for a second every couple of minutes, which is weird give the close proximity. What is the first thing you do or check?


----------



## Infoseeker

SoundChoice said:


> What is a possible quick fix for bad connections? Went on a bicycle ride with an Android phone in my shorts pocket sending BT to my TWS. Connection would drop for a second every couple of minutes, which is weird give the close proximity. What is the first thing you do or check?



I would factory reset the iem and check it on another phone first.


----------



## Singleton

Also in Bluetooth settings try another Bluetooth Audio Codec after a factory reset.


----------



## chinmie

jasonb said:


> So the thread title asks if we're there yet.... I'm not sure.
> 
> I think I'll be retiring my Galaxy Buds in favor of a Blon BL03 and an ES100. These $36 IEM's with the ES100 definitely sound much better to me than the Galaxy Buds.



I'm somewhat the opposite, i also have the BL03 and ES100, but i rarely use them and prefer the Galaxy buds over that setup. the tuning of the GBuds is more pleasing and enjoyable for me, and that's not even mentioning the better overall using experience


----------



## Infoseeker

Singleton said:


> Also in Bluetooth settings try another Bluetooth Audio Codec after a factory reset.



I was thinking about that. If nobody else is having problems with the iem. Then it probably is the source and not the iem. If changing the codec fixes the problem, then it is probably the phone who hates sending out that codec.


----------



## hifi80sman

Caipirina said:


> I am also kinda laughing and head shaking at that statement ... a whole generation is growing up on those mono BT speakers that sound more or less terrible, but are considered good as long as they have lots of bass! These kids are now discovering TWS ... and what we used to call 'stereo' is now known as 3D sound


What?!  You mean it's not really 6D stereo sound?!


----------



## brtalush

Any one try this :
*Mpow True Wireleess Earbuds ANC, Wireless Earbuds Touch Control Bluetooth 5.0, Earphone in-Ear with Active Noise Cancellation, Waterproof IPX6, 27 Hrs Playtime with Charging Case, Quick Charge Type-C*

Its $65 @Amazon
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B082G2RKS...olid=1GESI16LCZW5X&psc=1&ref_=lv_ov_lig_dp_it

could't find it on MPOW website....


----------



## Singleton (Feb 9, 2020)

Anyone looking for a TWS for under $50 I would recommend the SoundPEATS Truengine SE for $41.39 (10% discount on Amazon) as I've received mine on 30th of January 2020 and have used it extensively. The QCC3020 chip is amazing as the Bluetooth connection is strong and stable along with making AptX Codec sound crystal clear and 99.9% latency free so essentially making TWS sound like a wired pair of IEMs especially with TWS plus. https://www.amazon.com/SOUNDPEATS-Bluetooth-Headphones-Crossovers-Cancellation/dp/B07YRLK978


----------



## TontonRay

For anyone interested to buy the Soundcore Liberty 2Pro, here is a $50 discount code on Amazon I got from the Soundcore app. I guess it's personalized so probably can be only used once.
To the fastest clicker in the west (or east), enjoy!
M9XT-TGTV2K-DSLUAR


----------



## GeeD

chinmie said:


> i responded to people who wrote "just as the artist /audio engineers intended" so often in this forum that I started to get tired and just leave them be.
> most who made that statement never worked in audio fields. even if they do, but still make that statement, they usually are not very adaptive to varying situations and have questionable work flow.



Ah the youth of today...  bring back the good old days of Linn Sondek and Pink Triangles, and those that could tell the difference between different speaker cable ...although my neighbours never did like my taste in music, or the decibel level, lol


----------



## GeeD

hifi80sman said:


> What?! You mean it's not really 6D stereo sound?!



Course it is, that's when they subtlety modulate the balance to instil a calmed feeling of wellbeing, or if overdone, sea sickness.  You get that programmed into your headphones nowadays for those that can't afford the really expensive vinyl required to reproduce the sound ...and a Linn Sondek.


----------



## marcusd

We posted our review of the S80 from Astrotec. Despite not having aptx, the stability and sound quality is above average 

https://headfonics.com/2020/02/astrotec-s80-wireless-weekend/


----------



## Firevortex

Singleton said:


> The QCC3020 chip is amazing as the Bluetooth connection is strong and stable along with making AptX Codec sound crystal clear and 99.9% latency free so essentially making TWS sound like a wired pair of IEMs especially with TWS plus.



no it doesn't. AptX is not comparable to wired IEMs in SQ. i use the bt20s and wires sound better with the IEMs no matter what. sorry but your post sound like an ad for soundPEATS.


----------



## gibletzor

Firevortex said:


> no it doesn't. AptX is not comparable to wired IEMs in SQ. i use the bt20s and wires sound better with the IEMs no matter what. sorry but your post sound like an ad for soundPEATS.


To add onto your point, I've used some AptX TWS that had more latency than AAC or SBC.  The chipset is just a base the manufacturer has to build off of.  AptX GENERALLY has lower latency than AAC or SBC, but there are lots of things the manufacturer can do wrong to make it not true.  Using a junk antenna is one.  AptX doesn't magically make headphones better, in SQ or latency.


----------



## marcusd

gibletzor said:


> To add onto your point, I've used some AptX TWS that had more latency than AAC or SBC.  The chipset is just a base the manufacturer has to build off of.  AptX GENERALLY has lower latency than AAC or SBC, but there are lots of things the manufacturer can do wrong to make it not true.  Using a junk antenna is one.  AptX doesn't magically make headphones better, in SQ or latency.



Do not forget the driver also


----------



## SilverEars (Feb 9, 2020)

marcusd said:


> Do not forget the driver also


Or amp to drive the dynamic drivers well.  I suspect it's the weak sauce amps to save battery life on TWS.

I'd be curious how 10mm Carbon based dynamic  drivers would sound.  Like diamond like Carbon or Carbon nanotube, will struggle from the typical TWS amping.  BA drivers are a solution, but BA driver have higher distortions, and sound bandwidth issues.  They just don't sound natural to my ears.  The issue likely stems from not moving as much air as a vented dynamic.


----------



## gibletzor

marcusd said:


> Do not forget the driver also


Of course!  I was just referring to latency as @Singleton said AptX made TWS 99% lag free.  But yeah there's lots of units with AptX and terrible sound due to poorly tuned drivers!


----------



## chinmie

i pulled out my Earin M2 after so long being in the storage box, put my usual reversed foam tips on it, and this thing still sounds great for it's age. it still stutters when connected to my Note 8 using APTX, so i always toggle to AAC when using it with my Note 8. interestingly, using it with my older tablets with APTX it doesn't stutter at all


----------



## marcusd

A lot of this is factory driven on project costs. So for example, the TEVI and Mpow M5 are from the same factory but tuned differently and you can tell Lypertek went shopping with a much higher budget than MPOW and with a bit mroe know-how in how they wanted their driver and setup to sound. The end result is 2 decent TWS but the TEVI that bit better.


----------



## clerkpalmer

erockg said:


> I wish.  Sadly, they're not avail in the USA yet.  I've only tried the S1 and the T5's.


Strange. I wonder why CA only? Look decent.


----------



## cleg

My video about KZ S1 and S1D


----------



## genck (Feb 9, 2020)

If you guys are going to talk about wired IEM's to portable Bluetooth DAC/Amp's then post in the right forum.
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/radsone-earstudio-es100.867366/
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/fii...5mm-aac-sbc-aptx-aptx-ll-aptx-hd-ldac.918298/


----------



## BobJS

voicemaster said:


> Fiil T1X is pretty weird as they use AAC as a default codec even on android.



That's why I gave my pair away.  Can't use it if it won't do aptx.  Might sound great from an iphone, I wouldn't know.


----------



## jant71

jasonb said:


> I'm not sure how much clarity they can really have if they don't even support aptx.



Clarity comes from the drivers. Magnets and diaphragms. Not the bit rate. A great driver with great clarity has clarity regardless of low bit rate podcasts or Hi-Res files. More info and detail and stuff will be present with higher bit rate so the resolution will certainly improve. Perhaps more space and less congestion will help things be more clear but if that is an issue then the drivers probably aren't so hot to begin with. Also important is what is powering it. In this case an ES100(or other BT amp) vs. a phone or player with BT on it's own.

So the BL-03 does have a mid-bass issue that can bloat the bass and hurt the clarity and mask some detail so the FiiL can be more clear in a certain situation. You have to figure out if the ES100 is shaping up the Blon nicely and addressing the potential weakness of the BL-03. If Voicemaster is running the Blon another way that sounds worse than you running them with the ES100, then the FiiL may be dissapointing cause it isn't as good there so then the experience that the FiiL has more clarity will not be true if the ES100 bumps the Blon up above the FiiL. That is what you have to figure out. The whole recipe leads to the end result not just this sounds better than that on it's own end of story. Most often the quality BT amp will sound better than the phone BT to begin with and then add in the better codec on top. So, the FiiL having more clarity or better sound via straight BT, as far as that, I would still bet on the ES100/BL-03 combo coming out on top.


----------



## jasonb

jant71 said:


> Clarity comes from the drivers. Magnets and diaphragms. Not the bit rate. A great driver with great clarity has clarity regardless of low bit rate podcasts or Hi-Res files. More info and detail and stuff will be present with higher bit rate so the resolution will certainly improve. Perhaps more space and less congestion will help things be more clear but if that is an issue then the drivers probably aren't so hot to begin with. Also important is what is powering it. In this case an ES100(or other BT amp) vs. a phone or player with BT on it's own.
> 
> So the BL-03 does have a mid-bass issue that can bloat the bass and hurt the clarity and mask some detail so the FiiL can be more clear in a certain situation. You have to figure out if the ES100 is shaping up the Blon nicely and addressing the potential weakness of the BL-03. If Voicemaster is running the Blon another way that sounds worse than you running them with the ES100, then the FiiL may be dissapointing cause it isn't as good there so then the experience that the FiiL has more clarity will not be true if the ES100 bumps the Blon up above the FiiL. That is what you have to figure out. The whole recipe leads to the end result not just this sounds better than that on it's own end of story. Most often the quality BT amp will sound better than the phone BT to begin with and then add in the better codec on top. So, the FiiL having more clarity or better sound via straight BT, as far as that, I would still bet on the ES100/BL-03 combo coming out on top.



I would think that for truly wireless, clarity and detail and resolution and whatever would be a factor of the Bluetooth codec and bit rite, and of course the drivers and their enclosure and DAC and amp built in.

I know that sentence is a mess, but anyway. We already know the ES100 is going to be good in terms of the Bluetooth codecs and bit rates, DAC and amplification. We already know it's a solid and capable device, so that just leaves the IEM or headphones themselves you plug into it. For my tastes, the saving grace of the Blon BL03 is the EQ that's built into the ES100. I'm not EQ'ing them that much, but a small cut in the 63 to 250hz region is making them sound the way I want. 

I don't mean to derail this thread about the ES100 or non wireless IEM's. So back to the Galaxy Buds. I don't know that the reason is but they just don't sound good enough for me anymore, even with EQ. I don't know if the drivers and the enclosure are to blame or if it's the Bluetooth codec or bitrate or just the DAC/amp built in just not being high quality, but to me they seem to lack clarity, detail, resolution (whatever you want to call it) and the top end sounds artificial and smeared.


----------



## voicemaster

jant71 said:


> Clarity comes from the drivers. Magnets and diaphragms. Not the bit rate. A great driver with great clarity has clarity regardless of low bit rate podcasts or Hi-Res files. More info and detail and stuff will be present with higher bit rate so the resolution will certainly improve. Perhaps more space and less congestion will help things be more clear but if that is an issue then the drivers probably aren't so hot to begin with. Also important is what is powering it. In this case an ES100(or other BT amp) vs. a phone or player with BT on it's own.
> 
> So the BL-03 does have a mid-bass issue that can bloat the bass and hurt the clarity and mask some detail so the FiiL can be more clear in a certain situation. You have to figure out if the ES100 is shaping up the Blon nicely and addressing the potential weakness of the BL-03. If Voicemaster is running the Blon another way that sounds worse than you running them with the ES100, then the FiiL may be dissapointing cause it isn't as good there so then the experience that the FiiL has more clarity will not be true if the ES100 bumps the Blon up above the FiiL. That is what you have to figure out. The whole recipe leads to the end result not just this sounds better than that on it's own end of story. Most often the quality BT amp will sound better than the phone BT to begin with and then add in the better codec on top. So, the FiiL having more clarity or better sound via straight BT, as far as that, I would still bet on the ES100/BL-03 combo coming out on top.


Yeah, the shortcoming of tws is you can't modify the amping.


----------



## clerkpalmer

genck said:


> If you guys are going to talk about wired IEM's to portable Bluetooth DAC/Amp's then post in the right forum.
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/radsone-earstudio-es100.867366/
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/fii...5mm-aac-sbc-aptx-aptx-ll-aptx-hd-ldac.918298/


This is a fine place to discuss both because that setup is regularly used as a comparison to truly wireless.


----------



## genck

clerkpalmer said:


> This is a fine place to discuss both because that setup is regularly used as a comparison to truly wireless.


Which is good to bad, okay. Cool


----------



## SoundChoice

Infoseeker said:


> I would factory reset the iem and check it on another phone first.



Thank you. Is there a standard "factory reset" button-push raindance, or is it specific to each brand and model? I probably don't keep as much of the documentation as I should.


----------



## FYLegend (Feb 10, 2020)

Muzili EA10 First impressions
- Only supports SBC, not even AAC. Not the end of the world but I was hoping at least for AAC.
- Rather dark/warm sound with some mid-bass bloat. Decent soundstage and detail retrieval. Some distortion in the bass.
- As one user on Amazon indicated, they do have volume controls - just triple-tap.
- Case supports USB Type-C to A charging only. Not a dealbreaker personally, but you will see it as such as you can't charge off a PD charger or Type-C laptop. Disappointing because for a long time it looked like recent TWS were able to avoid this issue.

EDIT: It seems the distortion can be minimized by disabling absolute volume. Still not an efficient solution for me. I'd much prefer having media volumes synced with the source device.

also, AWFUL, loud auto-power off. A sudden ZAP with the "POWER OFF" voice prompt, like someone shocking your brain.


----------



## axhng

Just received these. Liking the sound signature so far. Thanks to DynamicEars for the rec!


----------



## Trebor1966

@axhng: I see on your picture Tevi - can you compare the GT1 PLUS with Tevi?


----------



## axhng (Feb 10, 2020)

Trebor1966 said:


> @axhng: I see on your picture Tevi - can you compare the GT1 PLUS with Tevi?



 good eye man. haha. Hmm, for me I think I like the GT1 Plus more, *insert usual disclaimer for how everyone's taste differs*.

For the TEVI (on stock firmware), I found it a bit a bass light. Mids were just okay, but the focus seems to be mostly in the upper mids and treble. I found the treble on the TEVI to be pretty intense at louder volume, which I normally do when I'm jogging with them. It's definitely good sounding still, but for some of the music i listen to like j-pop with high female vocals, those can be a bit intense on the TEVI.

For the GT1 Plus, everything sounds a little more balanced in terms of how I perceive the bass, mids, treble. There's enough bass, but not too overwhelming or bloated. The mids are just nice for me, and both male and female vocals sounds equally good. Treble is a bit less extended than the TEVI and less peaky too i think, but still enough to have a bit of sparkle for my taste. Details retrieval probably better on the TEVI, but the GT1 Plus is pretty decent too and overall smoother sounding and a bit more musical?

With the TEVI without any EQ, it was really nice on some tracks provided the volume isn't too loud (i might be a bit treble sensitive). Some tracks suffers because there wasn't quite enough kick to the bass. On the GT1 Plus, most of the tracks sounds nice to me right out of the box. I feel like it's probably a tuning that is less offensive to a wider target audience, whereas TEVI might be an acquired taste for some. For the TEVI it's a little bit fatiguing for me for long sessions, but the GT1 Plus I've been listening to them while working since I got them and it's not fatiguing at all to listen to.

A few other things to note would be that the volume seems a bit softer on the GT1 Plus since I have to push it up a click or 2 on my Pixel 4 to match the TEVI, but volume is still sufficient for me.

Then are the usability aspects. While the TEVI has USB-C which is nice, the GT1 Plus is way smaller and easier to carry around. The earbuds fits me nicer too especially while jogging. The TEVI might loosen and wiggle around a tiny bit, but the GT1 Plus should be a lot better (I've used the GT1 before and this is pretty much the same design). My main use of TWS earbuds are during jogging, and sometimes when i'm out and about. So overall, I like the GT1 Plus a little better. Also, I prefer the Galaxy Buds over the TEVI as well. 

Edit: Oh, and of course the much much MUCH lower price tag is a huge draw for me too. Since I'll be using them mostly while jogging, I can abuse them. haha.


----------



## david8613

Singleton said:


> Anyone looking for a TWS for under $50 I would recommend the SoundPEATS Truengine SE for $41.39 (10% discount on Amazon) as I've received mine on 30th of January 2020 and have used it extensively. The QCC3020 chip is amazing as the Bluetooth connection is strong and stable along with making AptX Codec sound crystal clear and 99.9% latency free so essentially making TWS sound like a wired pair of IEMs especially with TWS plus. https://www.amazon.com/SOUNDPEATS-Bluetooth-Headphones-Crossovers-Cancellation/dp/B07YRLK978




how is the bass on these?


----------



## Trebor1966

axhng said:


> good eye man. haha. Hmm, for me I think I like the GT1 Plus more, *insert usual disclaimer for how everyone's taste differs*.
> 
> For the TEVI (on stock firmware), I found it a bit a bass light. Mids were just okay, but the focus seems to be mostly in the upper mids and treble. I found the treble on the TEVI to be pretty intense at louder volume, which I normally do when I'm jogging with them. It's definitely good sounding still, but for some of the music i listen to like j-pop with high female vocals, those can be a bit intense on the TEVI.
> 
> ...



Please update your Tevi with the beta firmware: https://www.lypertek.com/app-beta
Afterwards they will have a new more common sound profile - more bass, less overhelming treble and upper mids - they turn from cold bright to warm dark.
With the included app you can also equalize it to bass heavy. The flat neutral setting offers enough bass and lower mids.
I think you will enjoy it.


----------



## funkymartyn

TontonRay said:


> For anyone interested to buy the Soundcore Liberty 2Pro, here is a $50 discount code on Amazon I got from the Soundcore app. I guess it's personalized so probably can be only used once.
> To the fastest clicker in the west (or east), enjoy!
> M9XT-TGTV2K-DSLUAR


Yes Amazon UK also keep having offers on the liberty 2 , and the liberty 2. Pro.  I picked up the  2 pro ones for £100. Couple of weeks ago , and very pleased with them,  the sound, the fit, ect  
The deal now for the normal  Liberty 2  is about £65 .....and  2 pro about £110.


----------



## DDDYKI

I'm hoping the new Samsung Galaxy Buds + use aptX, but I'm not getting my hopes up based on the previous model. I am curious about the BeoPlay E8 3rd gen, really like the look, but want to wait for reviews before I think about dropping that kind of cash on them.


----------



## AtariPrime

FYLegend said:


> Thanks for the review - which device are you using for it? I had seen these at London Drugs in Canada for 170$ and was wondering how they would sound. I had read TechRadar's review saying the audio crackles among other things which was pretty unassuring.



I saw TechRadar's review.  I threw the sound quality portion of their review out due to a clear bias toward a neutral sound signature.  The sound quality itself is just fine.  Nice wide soundstage.  It's really a question of how forward v. recessed you want the bass to be.  

I haven't encountered any audio crackles.  I am using an iPhone SE though, and that is limited to Bluetooth 4.2.  I am experiencing a few dropouts when at the gym.  I believe the Bluetooth 4.2 is at fault.  I think I will be upgrading my phone in March, so I should know for sure then.  

What is really great about these earbuds is the size and the battery life.  To my knowledge, no one can compete with them on that combo.  Every model that I know of with better battery life is good amount larger and most don't have the waterproofing.


----------



## Peddler

GeeD said:


> Ah the youth of today...  bring back the good old days of Linn Sondek and Pink Triangles, and those that could tell the difference between different speaker cable ...although my neighbours never did like my taste in music, or the decibel level, lol


I had a wonderful Turntable - Logik DM-101 with a Linn Basik LVX Tonearm and a Nagioka MP11 Boron (mounted on a genuine Sound Organisation Turntable Shelf) and I loved it.


----------



## erockg

tma6 said:


> Yo, sorry to keep bothering you about this. But these just came back on amazon and thinking about getting them. Just wondering what your overall thoughts are at this point. How’s the sound, controls, battery, calls, etc.Thanks a ton if you can!


I've been using them non-stop since the day I got them.  The sound stage is much wider than the Libratone Track Air+.  More bass.  So much that I'm REALLY digging them.  The fit is still weird to me but seems that they just sit in my ears, no need to twist and push much which I'm not used to.  I think I've spoken a lot on here about them.  Battery life lasts me all day with much to spare at work.  Calls seem to be good.  No complaints from anyone.  I do not miss track skip controls.  ANC is great, but I have not tested them on a plane yet.


----------



## stormwrx

erockg said:


> I've been using them non-stop since the day I got them.  The sound stage is much wider than the Libratone Track Air+.  More bass.  So much that I'm REALLY digging them.  The fit is still weird to me but seems that they just sit in my ears, no need to twist and push much which I'm not used to.  I think I've spoken a lot on here about them.  Battery life lasts me all day with much to spare at work.  Calls seem to be good.  No complaints from anyone.  I do not miss track skip controls.  ANC is great, but I have not tested them on a plane yet.



I'm really digging the Cleer Ally Plus as well! The ANC and ambient modes are way more effective than they are on my MW07 Plus. The soundstage is wide and the bass is very punchy. They even have AAC. The only downside I can see is the lack of track skipping, but in the rare instances where I really need it, I have just been using Google Assistant as a workaround. 

Another win is that these support Qualcomm TrueWireless Stereo Plus and my OnePlus 7T is connecting to each bud independently. Connectivity seems pretty solid while walking through the city. 

I am using the Cleers with Symbio Peel tips and the passive isolation, fit, and comfort are great. I'll try a run one of these days to see if they stay in - though the fit seems pretty stable thus far.

I think these were worth the wait (as opposed to the 1More TWS ANC, which I returned).


----------



## erockg

stormwrx said:


> I'm really digging the Cleer Ally Plus as well! The ANC and ambient modes are way more effective than they are on my MW07 Plus. The soundstage is wide and the bass is very punchy. They even have AAC. The only downside I can see is the lack of track skipping, but in the rare instances where I really need it, I have just been using Google Assistant as a workaround.
> 
> Another win is that these support Qualcomm TrueWireless Stereo Plus and my OnePlus 7T is connecting to each bud independently. Connectivity seems pretty solid while walking through the city.
> 
> ...


Glad I'm not the only one enjoying them.  Where'd you get your Symbio tips?  What size?  Maybe I'll give them a shot.  Been using the stock tips for now.


----------



## RainyDog

> Also, I prefer the Galaxy Buds over the TEVI as well.



Thanks for the write up! The GT1 Plus does seem like a sound signature that I'd really like.

How do they compare to the Galaxy Buds? The buds are my main daily drivers at the moment and while I enjoy their general balance, they do often leave me wanting a bit more excitement across the board as well as heft and extension on the lower end...


----------



## gibletzor

DDDYKI said:


> I'm hoping the new Samsung Galaxy Buds + use aptX, but I'm not getting my hopes up based on the previous model. I am curious about the BeoPlay E8 3rd gen, really like the look, but want to wait for reviews before I think about dropping that kind of cash on them.


I doubt it.  It will probably be SBC, AAC, and SSC like last years.  All the leaked info that has come out has not mentioned AptX in any form yet.


----------



## axhng (Feb 10, 2020)

Trebor1966 said:


> Please update your Tevi with the beta firmware: https://www.lypertek.com/app-beta
> Afterwards they will have a new more common sound profile - more bass, less overhelming treble and upper mids - they turn from cold bright to warm dark.
> With the included app you can also equalize it to bass heavy. The flat neutral setting offers enough bass and lower mids.
> I think you will enjoy it.



Yeah, that's what I read too, though i remember someone mentioning having issues with them when they reset the earbuds after the update? I was hoping to wait till it goes official first. But it does sound like it will make the tuning more towards my liking.  



RainyDog said:


> Thanks for the write up! The GT1 Plus does seem like a sound signature that I'd really like.
> 
> How do they compare to the Galaxy Buds? The buds are my main daily drivers at the moment and while I enjoy their general balance, they do often leave me wanting a bit more excitement across the board as well as heft and extension on the lower end...



Galaxy buds without any EQ does sound a bit less exciting to me (aside from the upper mids boost). But with the app, and the "Dynamic" equaliser setting, i feel like it's a lot more enjoyable. It will give more extension on the lower end, and I feel like the mids become a less thin sounding.

Though I'm not using those anymore because of battery issues. My right earbud can't even last 1.5 hours of use on a full charge.


----------



## BigZ12 (Feb 10, 2020)

axhng said:


> Yeah, that's what I read too, though i remember someone mentioning having issues with them when they reset the earbuds after the update? I was hoping to wait till it goes official first. But it does sound like it will make the tuning more towards my liking.


It was me, and my Tevis are still almost unusable.
After updating, and testing them, I reset them to factory defaults. Felt that was the right thing to do after the update, to delete paired devices and to be sure they "were as new".
It ruined them for me, because the connection became very unstable and the app seldom worked.
And the app have to work, because the sound in the left bud is weaker before getting them into the app and press "Sound" and choosing a preset. Strange...

BUT the sound after the update is amazing! Still detailed, but with much fuller sound. Punchier, deeper and more bass without a doubt. I actually loved the sound before the update (with the right tips to get the most out of the bass), but now they sound just amazing!

Lypertek have said they will send me new ones with original firmware after the Chinese new year 2020 holiday. Guess they were back to work yesterday.
And guess I then have to wait awhile to get the new sound signature, because I believe the official/stable firmware update isn't ready for some time.

I found a way to use them, but it's of course too cumbersome:
- First I had to reset again.
- Connecting the left bud but cancel when asked to connect the right.
- Put them in the case, and then take out just the left bud so it connects. Play some music and take out the right. Then you have sound in both.
- Then start app, and the bluetooth ask for connecting the -R BLE (guess that's the app who want to connect)
- With this method I actually can use them, and the app starts everytime.


----------



## vaaccess

gocam said:


> Hmm, mine came from mifo direct as the seller which makes you think that they'd be at least as updated. Perhaps not ?
> 
> G



Was your replacement directly from them again?



clerkpalmer said:


> The mw07 uses cvc for music as well. It's not limited to phone calls. To answer the original question, the noise cancelling in the mw07 doesn't do much. It takes the slightest edge off the background but if you are looking for ANC I would look elsewhere. I use it on my mw07 and find it useful but only useful in the sense that it's better than nothing.



I wasn’t aware that it worked for music, I thought it was phone only. Interesting.



gocam said:


> Ok - received my replacement Mifo O7s - exactly the same issue as before on precisely the same songs and more - any sort of deep bass, regardless of volume, introduces metallic clipping and rattling - since bass by it's nature tends to be cyclic, this makes anything with any depth very hard to listen to. Very pleasant and comfortable to listen to folk and lighter fare. But both pairs of O7s going back, alas.



Ugh, sorry, that sucks!

I am really perplexed. I mean, I know Quality Control can vary, but this seems to be more than that.

I thought I’d share more details from my packaging, in case there are differences. Does your case say this?




And the box label looks like this?


----------



## axhng

BigZ12 said:


> It was me, and my Tevis are still almost unusable.
> After updating, and testing them, I reset them to factory defaults. Felt that was the right thing to do after the update, to delete paired devices and to be sure they "were as new".
> It ruined them for me, because the connection became very unstable and the app seldom worked.
> And the app have to work, because the sound in the left bud is weaker before getting them into the app and press "Sound" and choosing a preset. Strange...
> ...



Thanks for the tips! That sounds like...quite a bit of work. haha. Might be easier to just try and EQ it a little in poweramp. But looking forward to the update for sure. It still sounds good to me now, just that it doesn't work well for me while jogging.


----------



## FYLegend

stormwrx said:


> Another win is that these support Qualcomm TrueWireless Stereo Plus and my OnePlus 7T is connecting to each bud independently. Connectivity seems pretty solid while walking through the city.


Just curious if they pause the music when switching buds? So far for me, on a non TWS+ device the QCC3020 is not as seamless as Airoha/Realtek chips.


----------



## voicemaster

vaaccess said:


> Was your replacement directly from them again?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


It is same with mine. I just tested mine listening to youtube at full blast (both max volume on youtube and on my pc) and it didn't clipped at all, but when I am listening through foobar (same song), it will clipped at roughly 86-90 volume on my pc (max on foobar).

This is the song that I tried.


----------



## stormwrx

erockg said:


> Glad I'm not the only one enjoying them.  Where'd you get your Symbio tips?  What size?  Maybe I'll give them a shot.  Been using the stock tips for now.



Here ya go:

https://symbioeartips.com/termek/symbio-w-peel/

I'm using the large ones, though my ears usually need that size for good isolation.


----------



## erockg

stormwrx said:


> Here ya go:
> 
> https://symbioeartips.com/termek/symbio-w-peel/
> 
> I'm using the large ones, though my ears usually need that size for good isolation.


Thanks!  Appreciate it.


----------



## Caipirina

Is the search function busted after the maintenance? I was trying to find the post where someone showed a different, new, earbud style Cleer Audio tws ...   but when I search for cleer I get 'no results' ... which kinda can't be ...  I will start scrolling through older posts ... but maybe someone beats me to it.


----------



## erockg

Caipirina said:


> Is the search function busted after the maintenance? I was trying to find the post where someone showed a different, new, earbud style Cleer Audio tws ...   but when I search for cleer I get 'no results' ... which kinda can't be ...  I will start scrolling through older posts ... but maybe someone beats me to it.


https://cleeraudio.com/in-ear-headphones/

https://cleeraudio.com/in-ear-headphones/goal/


----------



## erockg

FYLegend said:


> Just curious if they pause the music when switching buds? So far for me, on a non TWS+ device the QCC3020 is not as seamless as Airoha/Realtek chips.


Music pauses when you take one bud out.


----------



## Caipirina

chinmie said:


> glad to help!
> 
> on the side note, i took my Airsun X8 to the Gym, and i got to say the connection range of this is not very good, can't dven went more than 3 meters away with a concrete column between it. i ended up have to carry my phone around in the gym. to date, only this and the older soundcore liberty neo that have a really short connection range. with the Dyplay and the others i can easily go across the room without any stuttering.



Just seeing this while scrolling back ... you received your Airsun X8? Did you share impressions yet (other than short range?) how's the ANC? SC? 

Still waiting for my Dyplay, they are 'outbound in sorting center' ... sooo ... who knows how long


----------



## Caipirina

erockg said:


> https://cleeraudio.com/in-ear-headphones/
> 
> https://cleeraudio.com/in-ear-headphones/goal/




Thanks! Yes, those Cleer Goal where the ones I had in mind ... let's see when they get released, but @jant71 mentioned in THIS POST  (no idea why it does not show up when I do a search for 'cleer') that 'they' already have it ... never found our who 'they' are


----------



## chinmie

Caipirina said:


> Just seeing this while scrolling back ... you received your Airsun X8? Did you share impressions yet (other than short range?) how's the ANC? SC?
> 
> Still waiting for my Dyplay, they are 'outbound in sorting center' ... sooo ... who knows how long



yup, i did a short review here
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/goi...soon-or-are-we-there-yet.861024/post-15446529

interestingly, the treble has lifted it's veil compared to the time i wrote that initial review (i played some treble heavy tracks and leave it on loop for a couple of hours). 
and also i went to the gym with it again, and put it in my regular bag, the bluetooth range is not as bas as the previous experience..that specific day i was using my son's bag which is a bit more padded than mine.. maybe that also contributed to the worse BT connection. the Dyplay's still has better range though... and man i love the mic sound on it. 

i think I'm on TWS pause right now, as the current lineup are sufficient and working great for their designated scenarios, also because currently no other TWS caught my interest (there are the Mifo o7 and the new Nillkin Aptx, but i think I'll hold for now). i still browse for new and exciting new TWS though, being an addict and all


----------



## Trebor1966

axhng said:


> Yeah, that's what I read too, though i remember someone mentioning having issues with them when they reset the earbuds after the update? I was hoping to wait till it goes official first. But it does sound like it will make the tuning more towards my liking.



I doubt that the update go ever official.
You never need to reset the earbuds - the member want to pair it new and reset it and than run in this issues.
When you want to pair it new simple press two times the button and it works perfectly - you will love this tuning


----------



## gocam

vaaccess said:


> Was your replacement directly from them again?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



How interesting - my earbud case looks like yours, but the sticker on the back of the box is totally different. My barcode is X002F2T413, and the text says "mifo 07 wireless earbuds NEW" --- I wonder if it is this NEW model that is the problem unit ?


----------



## Sound Eq

can I ask which is the best TWS out there now, money no object

I know the new sony TWS so anything else that is totl TWS


----------



## FYLegend

erockg said:


> Music pauses when you take one bud out.


Oh, that's a pity. Are there duplicate listings for the left and right buds on your Bluetooth list?


----------



## Caipirina (Feb 11, 2020)

chinmie said:


> yup, i did a short review here
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/goi...soon-or-are-we-there-yet.861024/post-15446529



Somehow this flew under my radar, thanks for the impressions! It appears the SQ of the BQC35 would fit my bill a bit better. On the other hand I do like good passive isolation and the X8 do remind me a bit of my old old Jabra Sport Elite, my first ever TWS pair ... which I would probably by again if I saw a mega deal, just for nostalgia's sake.



chinmie said:


> i think I'm on TWS pause right now, as the current lineup are sufficient and working great for their designated scenarios, also because currently no other TWS caught my interest


Me too it appears, but more because corona virus seems to be shutting down AliExpress and that's my only source ... have not seen any new interesting TWS popping up in a while ... But I also think I have enough (do I ever)

Speaking of ANC needs, seen THIS one? they claim they have 'Adaptive Noise Cancelling (Pure ANC)' .. not sure if they understand the meaning of 'pure' ... but at this price I doubt this is real ANC


----------



## vaaccess

gocam said:


> How interesting - my earbud case looks like yours, but the sticker on the back of the box is totally different. My barcode is X002F2T413, and the text says "mifo 07 wireless earbuds NEW" --- I wonder if it is this NEW model that is the problem unit ?



ah-ha!  Well at least that does seem to indicate that they are different. I wonder what Mifo would say if you asked them about it since that’s who you bought it from...???


----------



## popandilaro

hi everyone!
are mifo o5 pros still one of the more balanced pairs of TWS in their price range(i know they kinda were last summer)?

I currently own a pair of wired IEMs,the tin hifi t3, and i love their sound and want to find some wireless buds with a similar sound signature in the sub 100$ budget.

I know that I won't find any pair with a fantastic SQ in this budget, but is there anything that has a similar tuning and sound to those IEMs?


----------



## erockg

FYLegend said:


> Oh, that's a pity. Are there duplicate listings for the left and right buds on your Bluetooth list?


Yes.


----------



## erockg

This might cause a return soon, but with my Cleer Ally Plus, I'm hearing distortion in the left bud of a few music tracks.  Could be that the tracks are old rips from CDs years ago. This does not happen on newer recordings/downloads.


----------



## hifi80sman

erockg said:


> This might cause a return soon, but with my Cleer Ally Plus, I'm hearing distortion in the left bud of a few music tracks.  Could be that the tracks are old rips from CDs years ago. This does not happen on newer recordings/downloads.


Are you EQing?  I wonder if it's just clipping.


----------



## erockg (Feb 11, 2020)

hifi80sman said:


> Are you EQing?  I wonder if it's just clipping.


I'm on an iPhone 11.  No EQ.  Apple Music.  It's a strange static distortion when there's a certain type of drum hit.  Annoying, but seems to only happen on older tracks that I ripped years ago.  Hasn't happened today yet on what I'm listening to.


----------



## hifi80sman

erockg said:


> I'm on an iPhone 11.  No EQ.  Apple Music.  It's a strange static distortion when there's a certain type of drum hit.  Annoying, but seems to only happen on older tracks that I ripped years ago.  Hasn't happened today yet on what I'm listening to.


Yeah, don't rip at 64 kbps / 32 kHz.


----------



## erockg

hifi80sman said:


> Yeah, don't rip at 64 kbps / 32 kHz.


I'll have to check.  It's an old 90s album.  But I HIGHLY doubt I ripped low!


----------



## axhng

popandilaro said:


> hi everyone!
> are mifo o5 pros still one of the more balanced pairs of TWS in their price range(i know they kinda were last summer)?
> 
> I currently own a pair of wired IEMs,the tin hifi t3, and i love their sound and want to find some wireless buds with a similar sound signature in the sub 100$ budget.
> ...



I'm not sure about the T3, but had the Tin T2 and Mifo O5 Pro a while back and they don't really sound similar to me other than both being bass light. Mifo O5 Pro IIRC doesn't really have nearly as much treble extension as the T2. I wasn't a huge fan of how it since it sounded rather boring to me. It's a very non-fatiguing sound though which is good for extended use. Gave my sister the choice of the Mpow M5/T5 or the Mifo O5 Pro, and she preferred the O5 Pro after trying both. She uses them for extended periods of time at work and find the less Mpow fatiguing to listen to, & battery life is a plus point too.

Maybe the lypertek Tevi could be an option? Good clarity and treble, not bass heavy as well. Haven't really tried as many option as other folks here. so maybe others can chip in too.


----------



## Singleton

david8613 said:


> how is the bass on these?


The bass is solid, punchy, controlled and not overwhelming at all.


----------



## Singleton

gibletzor said:


> Of course!  I was just referring to latency as @Singleton said AptX made TWS 99% lag free.  But yeah there's lots of units with AptX and terrible sound due to poorly tuned drivers!


That is so true I've tried a few with poorly tuned drivers but so far SoundPEATS never disappointed me in the past and hopefully in the future as well since so far their TWS driver implementation and tuning is spot on and the sound quality is amazing for the price they charge for TWS along with the quality of materials used to make the TWS and their respective charging case and accessories.


----------



## Firevortex

vaaccess said:


> ah-ha!  Well at least that does seem to indicate that they are different. I wonder what Mifo would say if you asked them about it since that’s who you bought it from...???



I know Mifo O5s has fakes in China. since they were wildly popular over there. not sure about MifoO7s they are implementing some unique bar code system to combat the counterfeit issue. could be a implementation of that barcode system?


----------



## Mouseman

erockg said:


> I'll have to check.  It's an old 90s album.  But I HIGHLY doubt I ripped low!


Some of those '90s albums have pretty horrendous mastering, so it could always be that.


----------



## Burgerbassist

stormwrx said:


> I'm really digging the Cleer Ally Plus as well! The ANC and ambient modes are way more effective than they are on my MW07 Plus. The soundstage is wide and the bass is very punchy. They even have AAC. The only downside I can see is the lack of track skipping, but in the rare instances where I really need it, I have just been using Google Assistant as a workaround.
> 
> Another win is that these support Qualcomm TrueWireless Stereo Plus and my OnePlus 7T is connecting to each bud independently. Connectivity seems pretty solid while walking through the city.
> 
> ...



I've got the MW07 Go and I like them, but I'd like ANC. I decided against the MW07 Plus because the ANC is barely there.  Given that I like the signature of the MW07s, do the Cleers sound similar?


----------



## hifi80sman

Firevortex said:


> I know Mifo O5s has fakes in China. since they were wildly popular over there. not sure about MifoO7s they are implementing some unique bar code system to combat the counterfeit issue. could be a implementation of that barcode system?


That's funny.  Chi-Fi is now cloning other Chi-Fi.


----------



## erockg

Burgerbassist said:


> I've got the MW07 Go and I like them, but I'd like ANC. I decided against the MW07 Plus because the ANC is barely there.  Given that I like the signature of the MW07s, do the Cleers sound similar?


I've had the MW07 original and the plus.  I think the Cleers sound pretty damn good and are louder.  The ANC blows away the MW07 Plus' ANC.  If you can get them off Amazon with Prime, give them a shot and test them out.


----------



## erockg

Mouseman said:


> Some of those '90s albums have pretty horrendous mastering, so it could always be that.


Agreed.  I'm going to stick with them longer.


----------



## stormwrx

Burgerbassist said:


> I've got the MW07 Go and I like them, but I'd like ANC. I decided against the MW07 Plus because the ANC is barely there.  Given that I like the signature of the MW07s, do the Cleers sound similar?



The Cleers have a bit more bass and highs are not as emphasized as the MW07 Pluses. Soundstage and clarity are similar to my ear.


----------



## erockg

stormwrx said:


> The Cleers have a bit more bass and highs are not as emphasized as the MW07 Pluses. Soundstage and clarity are similar to my ear.


Cleers have better passive isolation for me and do not make my ears hurt with the wings that the MW07 have.


----------



## hifi80sman

Mouseman said:


> Some of those '90s albums have pretty horrendous mastering, so it could always be that.


And some never should have been mastered at all.


----------



## chinmie

Caipirina said:


> Somehow this flew under my radar, thanks for the impressions! It appears the SQ of the BQC35 would fit my bill a bit better. On the other hand I do like good passive isolation and the X8 do remind me a bit of my old old Jabra Sport Elite, my first ever TWS pair ... which I would probably by again if I saw a mega deal, just for nostalgia's sake.
> 
> 
> Me too it appears, but more because corona virus seems to be shutting down AliExpress and that's my only source ... have not seen any new interesting TWS popping up in a while ... But I also think I have enough (do I ever)
> ...



I admit i use the X8 more extensively than the BQC35 this past weeks, because after that veil lifted the sound is much better, and the tuning is more of my preference also. But the BQC35, even though it's really V-shaped, i really like it. It has energy that's not present in all my other earphones.

That ANC TWS that you're talking about, i also eyeing on it, but a bit sceptical about the ANC implementation, whether it's only active in phone calls like cvc or not. Also it only uses micro usb...like...eeeuuugh in 2020


----------



## hifi80sman

AUKEY has a new TWS out with 13mm Titanium drivers ($139 w/ 20% off coupon).  They note "Active Noise Cancellation", but it looks like it's just for the mic.

https://www.amazon.com/Key-Cancellation-Wireless-Bluetooth-Headphones/dp/B081Q8KFFQ/


----------



## chinmie

hifi80sman said:


> AUKEY has a new TWS out with 13mm Titanium drivers ($139 w/ 20% off coupon).  They note "Active Noise Cancellation", but it looks like it's just for the mic.
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/Key-Cancellation-Wireless-Bluetooth-Headphones/dp/B081Q8KFFQ/



Based on the instructional video, i think it's legit true ANC


----------



## erockg

hifi80sman said:


> AUKEY has a new TWS out with 13mm Titanium drivers ($139 w/ 20% off coupon).  They note "Active Noise Cancellation", but it looks like it's just for the mic.
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/Key-Cancellation-Wireless-Bluetooth-Headphones/dp/B081Q8KFFQ/


I've tried these Aukey headphones from the same product line: https://www.amazon.com/AUKEY-Wireless-Playtime-Water-Resistance-Bluetooth/dp/B07N1BSQK5/

So many dropouts like a pair of Rowkin buds.  Drove me nuts.


----------



## vaaccess

Firevortex said:


> I know Mifo O5s has fakes in China. since they were wildly popular over there. not sure about MifoO7s they are implementing some unique bar code system to combat the counterfeit issue. could be a implementation of that barcode system?



good to know, but I would be curious to understand how we would be able to tell what’s what!  Honesty, since the others are from Mifo Direct and say “New”, they have to be legit, right?


----------



## jant71

hifi80sman said:


> AUKEY has a new TWS out with 13mm Titanium drivers ($139 w/ 20% off coupon).  They note "Active Noise Cancellation", but it looks like it's just for the mic.
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/Key-Cancellation-Wireless-Bluetooth-Headphones/dp/B081Q8KFFQ/



The video says holding the touch control activates active noise canceling so should be ANC for more than just the mic but no volume controls on this one either.


----------



## brtalush

chinmie said:


> I admit i use the X8 more extensively than the BQC35 this past weeks, because after that veil lifted the sound is much better, and the tuning is more of my preference also. But the BQC35, even though it's really V-shaped, i really like it. It has energy that's not present in all my other earphones.
> 
> That ANC TWS that you're talking about, i also eyeing on it, but a bit sceptical about the ANC implementation, whether it's only active in phone calls like cvc or not. Also it only uses micro usb...like...eeeuuugh in 2020


Can you please share a link to the X8 ?
Can’t find it anywhere ...
Thanks .


----------



## voicemaster (Feb 11, 2020)

Just received Cleer Ally (without the ANC). Now, this sounds impressively good. OOTB, the bass might be a little bit overwhelming, but with just minimal use (cook it up at max volume on subwoofer test song lol)
, the bass has settled down to a well rounded and punchy bass. Mid is clear and detailed, not too forward but not too recessed either. It just right imho. The high is well extended, but never piercing. I say it is a very very smooth high. Cymbals has good decay and airiness, but it never even once piercing unlike T1X. Timbre is very good. Soundstage and separation is very good. This has probably the widest soundstage of all my other tws so far.
Build quality and fit is average imho. Case is made of plastic and the earbuds themselves are plastic. Compared to 1more and mifo07, it feels cheap. Not saying it is bad tho. Fit is kinda finicky. I removed the fin because it actually pushed the earbuds out from my ear and thus breaking the seal. Changed it to the provided silicone sleeve without the fin and it fits just fine.
Will do more comparison with my other tws (mifo07, 1more and T1X), but I am awed by the sound this tws produce so far.


----------



## gibletzor

erockg said:


> I've tried these Aukey headphones from the same product line: https://www.amazon.com/AUKEY-Wirele...0WGAY1BNH3D&psc=1&refRID=3R6CP8XJG0WGAY1BNH3D
> 
> So many dropouts like a pair of Rowkin buds.  Drove me nuts.


Really?  I tried out the T10 last summer and they had a stronger connection than a lot of TWS I've used.  I sent them back because I didn't like them as much as the Galaxy Buds and they had a lot of similar features otherwise, but connection was one of the strong points for me!


----------



## Caipirina (Feb 13, 2020)

chinmie said:


> Also it only uses micro usb...like...eeeuuugh in 2020



Still using cable, not wireless charging in 2020 .. eeeeuuuuuggghh  
honestly, micro USB is still not a deal breaker for me ...

I keep having an itch to add a Sony XM3 to my collection ... already scouting 'cheap' places ... amazon.de has it for 180EU right now, e-earphone in Tokyo used for 153EU ... but I m not going to Japan anytime soon ... sigh ... need to curb my greed! (edit: eeeeekkkk ... found a local shop selling them for 47500LKR, which is 240EU / 260USD ... guess I have to be patient ... ) 

But ANC is just SO COOOOL ...  came across an iOS app for mellow background noise called 'mynoise' ... that with ANC ... heavenly!


----------



## chinmie

brtalush said:


> Can you please share a link to the X8 ?
> Can’t find it anywhere ...
> Thanks .



yes, AE sellers are kinda cryptic sometimes and not mentioning the real name of the product. here is the link
https://m.aliexpress.com/item/4000598879145.html



voicemaster said:


> cook it up at max volume on subwoofer test song lol



yup, my most effective way of "burn in" an earphone is hearing which frequency that is a bit veiled, and then playing tracks that has a lot of that veiled freq point. for example, if the bass ootb is a bit blurry, then i play heavy bass tracks, or if the treble a bit muffled, then heavy cymbals or bright synth is the way to go. works most of the time



Caipirina said:


> But ANC is just SO COOOOL ... came across an iOS app for mellow background noise called 'mynoise' ... that with ANC ... heavenly!



yes, after ANC it's harder to go to non ANC ones, especially for the usage in environments that the ANC excel...that sudden deadening moment of the background noise when the ANC turned on is addicting


----------



## popandilaro (Feb 11, 2020)

axhng said:


> Maybe the lypertek Tevi could be an option? Good clarity and treble, not bass heavy as well.


after a bit more lurking, i think my final choice is between shanling mtw100 vs lypertek tevi vs mifo o5 pro. which one of these 3 pairs has the most balanced sound with clear bass?


----------



## voicemaster

Btw this Cleer Ally has pretty incredible battery life. I have been using it non stop at 80-90% volume on my pc (foobar, vlc and youtube at 100% volume) for 4 hours and the battery still at 70%. Oh forgot to mention that the case is still using micro-usb cable to charge.


----------



## SoundChoice

Caipirina said:


> Still using cable, not wireless charging in 2020 .. eeeeuuuuuggghh
> honestly, micro USB is still not a deal breaker for me ...
> 
> I keep having an itch to add a Sony XM3 to my collection ... already scouting 'cheap' places ... amazon.de has it for 180EU right now, e-earphone in Tokyo used for 153EU ... but I m not going to Japan anytime soon ... sigh ... need to curb my greed!
> ...



the Sony XM3 is worth the hype to me. They’re not for activity, or water, or outside where you could lose them or pretty much anything but sitting or walking, but the sound and ANC and connection is for me top notch.


----------



## thimantha

Caipirina said:


> micro USB is still not a deal breaker for me




Well, same here. I anyway have to carry around a Micro USB cable because my Kindle and the Honor Band charges through Micro USB so it doesn't bother me when a TWS has Micro USB instead of USB-C. I have a lot of Micro USB cables lying around everywhere in my house and at the office.


----------



## erockg

gibletzor said:


> Really?  I tried out the T10 last summer and they had a stronger connection than a lot of TWS I've used.  I sent them back because I didn't like them as much as the Galaxy Buds and they had a lot of similar features otherwise, but connection was one of the strong points for me!


Sadly, yes.  Whenever I walked outdoors into an intersection they'd cut in and out.  That's my go-to connection test near my office.  Tried two pairs, same issue.  I think you made the right choice.  Galaxy Buds are way better.  I would have kept the Galaxy Buds but I use an iPhone and couldn't use passthrough with them.  I'll definitely be testing out the new Galaxy Buds +.  Already pre-ordered them


----------



## gdv brisbane

gdv brisbane said:


> Thanks for the advice. The Spinfit CP360 do fit in the SSK case but I'm suffering from serious "IEM thump" when walking with them. Has anyone managed to find foam tips such as the Ikko or Misodiko that fit in the SSK case?


I can answer my own question now and confirm that the misodiko TWS-Pro fit the SSK BT03 stems perfectly. I have the medium size and they also fit and charge well in the case. Compared to the stock silicon tips, the TWS-Pro seem to enhance the bass and isolate background noise better but with slightly rolled off trebles. They also have a slightly shiny outside layer and so are more like the classic Shure black olives than the Complys -  hopefully that means they'll be more durable. Definitely a keeper and an overall upgrade on stock.


----------



## gibletzor (Feb 12, 2020)

First unboxing and short review video on the GBuds+ I've seen yet.  Sounds promising!


----------



## Caipirina

SoundChoice said:


> the Sony XM3 is worth the hype to me. They’re not for activity, or water, or outside where you could lose them or pretty much anything but sitting or walking, but the sound and ANC and connection is for me top notch.



I think this might be the reason why so far the Sony have eluded me ... usability, which is different for everyone. Ever since I got into the audio hobby my circumstances have changed and most of my music listening happens while running. But there are the odd moments at the computer or on a plane ... so, if I ever see a great deal on them ...


----------



## RobinFood (Feb 12, 2020)

I was saving up to get the Sony Wf-1000xm3, but just had my bubble but realizing my G7 power doesn't do AAC, only SBC and APTx.

Is there any way to install AAC on an Android? The developer options truck didn't work, after changing it manually it always reverts back to SBC or APTx.

If I'm doomed, can anyone comment on how awful they sound in SBC only?


----------



## Mouseman

hifi80sman said:


> And some never should have been mastered at all.


Are you implying that PopoZau isn't one of the musical masterpieces of the modern age? 
I think I'd take K-Fed over "Barbie Girl" or "What's Going on" any day. Of course a pencil to the eardrum would beat all three.


----------



## popandilaro

Hi everyone!
I really wanna get my first pair of TWSs in the near future but I don't know what to choose between the Lypertek Tevi and the Shanling MTW100.
I like a flat and balanced sound signature with a crisp treble and well defined mids. I mostly listen to rock, blues, jazz, hip hop and house. 

Which of these 2 pairs of wireless buds do y'all think are better suited for my preferences?


----------



## tma6

popandilaro said:


> Hi everyone!
> I really wanna get my first pair of TWSs in the near future but I don't know what to choose between the Lypertek Tevi and the Shanling MTW100.
> I like a flat and balanced sound signature with a crisp treble and well defined mids. I mostly listen to rock, blues, jazz, hip hop and house.
> 
> Which of these 2 pairs of wireless buds do y'all think are better suited for my preferences?



If you're willing to pay a bit more, I'd say the Nuarl N6 Pros are the best out there for the type of sound signature that you're looking for


----------



## hifi80sman

RobinFood said:


> I was saving up to get the Sony Wf-1000mx3, but just had my bubble but realizing my G7 power doesn't do AAC, only SBC and APTx.
> 
> Is there any way to install AAC on an Android? The developer options truck didn't work, after changing it manually it always reverts back to SBC or APTx.
> 
> If I'm doomed, can anyone comment on how awful they sound in SBC only?


Unless Motorola includes it as part of their system/OS update and you're already on Android 8.0, I think you're probably out of luck in terms of AAC.  I also saw a reddit post where a Motorola rep confirmed it only supports aptX and SBC.

I think they still sound good via SBC, and honestly, AAC on Android is not the greatest.  The AAC engine Apple uses is noticeably superior, so I personally wouldn't have an issue using the XM3 on Android via SBC.


----------



## assassin10000

RobinFood said:


> Is there any way to install AAC on an Android? The developer options truck didn't work, after changing it manually it always reverts back to SBC or APTx.
> 
> If I'm doomed, can anyone comment on how awful they sound in SBC only?



Unlock bootloader, root and different O.S.? Has anyone changed the G7 to a working version of android 9 or 10?


----------



## wksoh (Feb 13, 2020)

Sam L said:


> M5 is way warmer than t1x. Not even close, to my ears.


yes M5 has that fat throaty mid.....don't need EQ - it's a hassle. Don't think T1X is anywhere near warm.


----------



## crimscrem

CocaCola15 said:


> I have them. How do you know they are at a certain percentage? There is no app with them, right? Not sure how to tell where they are battery-wise. Of course, I hardly ever go past 2-3 hours max, and once on a flight. I love the sound, more than most here it seems. And with the medium foam tips, they are a fantastic fit. I got lucky I think, because they don't bother me, the fit that is. And their sound is to me, great. Anyway, their guy in tech support, Nicolas, has been very responsive to me.


I can't recall if I ever responded to you or not. My apologies if I haven't. I check the battery life percentage off of my phone. My phone will show the battery percentage of connected headphones. It seems very accurate with my other Bluetooth connected devices (headphones, earbuds). Anyway, I finally got around to doing a battery test. I started playing music off of Amazon Music on a loop. I'm now at the 9.5 hour mark. Phone says the battery life is at 50%, which is clearly not right. It drops precipitously at 50% and below, so I would expect it to die within the next 30 minutes. Obviously going 10 hours is better than advertised I believe. 

Also, while a bit slow to initially reach out to me, Cambridge Audio's technical support has been responsive. They said I should factory reset, update again, and try. Or they would provide a replacement. Given that I'm getting more than sufficient battery mileage (regardless of what the battery life indicator says), I'm going to keep them. Still really like the sound.


----------



## SilverEars

hifi80sman said:


> Unless Motorola includes it as part of their system/OS update and you're already on Android 8.0, I think you're probably out of luck in terms of AAC.  I also saw a reddit post where a Motorola rep confirmed it only supports aptX and SBC.
> 
> I think they still sound good via SBC, and honestly, AAC on Android is not the greatest.  The AAC engine Apple uses is noticeably superior, so I personally wouldn't have an issue using the XM3 on Android via SBC.


That's so weird that Moto doesn't have AAC.

Can you point out where you found the info about Apple doing better implimentation of AAC?  I was curious if my AirPods Pro would sound better on Apple.


----------



## RobinFood

hifi80sman said:


> Unless Motorola includes it as part of their system/OS update and you're already on Android 8.0, I think you're probably out of luck in terms of AAC.  I also saw a reddit post where a Motorola rep confirmed it only supports aptX and SBC.
> 
> I think they still sound good via SBC, and honestly, AAC on Android is not the greatest.  The AAC engine Apple uses is noticeably superior, so I personally wouldn't have an issue using the XM3 on Android via SBC.



Does the Sony DSEE HX help get rid of some of the artifacts in SBC?

That's too bad. Maybe there is hope with SBC XQ. Has anyone patched their Android phone to try it out?

I could also maybe use my shanling m0 which has all the codecs, but the Bluetooth radio is much easier and less stable than the one on my G7


----------



## RobinFood

assassin10000 said:


> Unlock bootloader, root and different O.S.? Has anyone changed the G7 to a working version of android 9 or 10?



That sounds like it might make more problems than it would solve.

My Moto g7 power is on Android 9 now. I did see a few tutorials for unlocking sbc xq on Android, but wonder how well it would sound and how hard it is to do...


----------



## cwill

SilverEars said:


> That's so weird that Moto doesn't have AAC.
> 
> Can you point out where you found the info about Apple doing better implimentation of AAC?  I was curious if my AirPods Pro would sound better on Apple.


I specifically turn OFF AAC on my Android due to SBC sounding way better and more natural on my SSK's


----------



## hifi80sman

SilverEars said:


> That's so weird that Moto doesn't have AAC.
> 
> Can you point out where you found the info about Apple doing better implimentation of AAC?  I was curious if my AirPods Pro would sound better on Apple.


Android uses Fraunhofer FDK AAC, while Apples uses their own proprietary Apple AAC engine.

Also, here's an article from Soundguys.
https://www.soundguys.com/the-ultimate-guide-to-bluetooth-headphones-aac-20296/


----------



## Odioer

cwill said:


> I specifically turn OFF AAC on my Android due to SBC sounding way better and more natural on my SSK's


I'll try that, thanks.


----------



## C_Lindbergh

The new Galaxy buds seems great, but I worry how they'll sound if you dont use a Samsung product, non Samsung phones will use AAC and Windows will use SBC i guess?


----------



## SilverEars

C_Lindbergh said:


> The new Galaxy buds seems great, but I worry how they'll sound if you dont use a Samsung product, non Samsung phones will use AAC and Windows will use SBC i guess?


We need a call quality comparison with APP.


----------



## Burgerbassist

erockg said:


> I've had the MW07 original and the plus.  I think the Cleers sound pretty damn good and are louder.  The ANC blows away the MW07 Plus' ANC.  If you can get them off Amazon with Prime, give them a shot and test them out.



Ordered. I've been excited about these for a while, so I'm glad to hear some good impressions. Thanks!


----------



## Blueshound24

I posted this on the 'deals' thread here also, but does anyone know how good they are?

Otium Wireless Earbuds Bluetooth 5.0, $39.99 reduced to $17.99 with code below. Don't know how good they are but reviews are good.

by Otium
4.3 out of 5 stars
3,286 ratings | 253 answered questions

Clip the 10% off coupon showing on the product page, then enter code 40D6CSKG at checkout for another 40% off brings them down to $17.99 from the list price of $39.99.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07S5JVP78/


----------



## CocaCola15

crimscrem said:


> I can't recall if I ever responded to you or not. My apologies if I haven't. I check the battery life percentage off of my phone. My phone will show the battery percentage of connected headphones. It seems very accurate with my other Bluetooth connected devices (headphones, earbuds). Anyway, I finally got around to doing a battery test. I started playing music off of Amazon Music on a loop. I'm now at the 9.5 hour mark. Phone says the battery life is at 50%, which is clearly not right. It drops precipitously at 50% and below, so I would expect it to die within the next 30 minutes. Obviously going 10 hours is better than advertised I believe.
> 
> Also, while a bit slow to initially reach out to me, Cambridge Audio's technical support has been responsive. They said I should factory reset, update again, and try. Or they would provide a replacement. Given that I'm getting more than sufficient battery mileage (regardless of what the battery life indicator says), I'm going to keep them. Still really like the sound.


Listening to them as I type, out and about. For me, they check all my boxes, albeit my main focus is SQ and a non-touch Ux.


----------



## maricius

Hello! I purchased two pairs of Fiil T1X to give as gifts but the first pair I listened to has noticeable humming/noise on the left unit when no music is playing and/or during soft passages during a song. The second pair which I just opened to compare has none of this humming. Is it possible to solve the humming on the first pair or is the only solution to return the unit?


----------



## vaaccess

maricius said:


> Hello! I purchased two pairs of Fiil T1X to give as gifts but the first pair I listened to has noticeable humming/noise on the left unit when no music is playing and/or during soft passages during a song. The second pair which I just opened to compare has none of this humming. Is it possible to solve the humming on the first pair or is the only solution to return the unit?



it seems as though the left ear bud can be problematic on bad units in a lot of ways. Clipping, static, driver flex, etc.

I haven’t seen anyone provide a way to fix something like you are mentioning and ultimately I returned my 1TX due to driver flex issues. Given the general issues with the left earbuds, I would return and try again.


----------



## hifi80sman

Blueshound24 said:


> I posted this on the 'deals' thread here also, but does anyone know how good they are?
> 
> Otium Wireless Earbuds Bluetooth 5.0, $39.99 reduced to $17.99 with code below. Don't know how good they are but reviews are good.
> 
> ...


They're OK.  Bass-forward, fun, but mine was completely imbalanced, so one side had dramatically different frequency response than the other.  For $18, if they are balanced, solid for some knockaround use, but I wouldn't have a hunger to listen to them outside of some utility purpose (gym, yard work, etc.).


----------



## 13gsc13

I have Senn MTW and really like the sound with comply foam tips
looking to get another pair of wireless earphones- either FIIL T1X or Cleer Ally
which would better suit my sound taste better?
any info would be appreciated 
Thanks


----------



## Burgerbassist

Are the AirPods pro still considered the best for ANC?  I listen to a fair amount of non-music (podcasts, audiobooks, etc) on my commute, so if sound quality and signature aren't necessarily as big of a priority, is there anything recommended above the APP for pure ANC performance?


----------



## magi44ken

Here is an audio mic sample comparison between APP and Samsung Bud+. Starts at 3:50.


----------



## base08

I think it’s bad advice telling to use SBC instead of AAC on Android... 



As you can see SBC has way too much more audible impact in the music than AAC, even on Android. The only issue with the AAC implementation on Android phones is a slight extra battery consumption and a small variation among different smartphones on the highs roll-off frequency, which most start at pretty inaudible frequencies anyway... 

In terms of transparency AAC is regarded to be the best Bluetooth codec that you can choose, though that might change with the introduction of Bluetooth 5.2 and the new LC3 codec...


----------



## voicemaster

13gsc13 said:


> I have Senn MTW and really like the sound with comply foam tips
> looking to get another pair of wireless earphones- either FIIL T1X or Cleer Ally
> which would better suit my sound taste better?
> any info would be appreciated
> Thanks





13gsc13 said:


> I have Senn MTW and really like the sound with comply foam tips
> looking to get another pair of wireless earphones- either FIIL T1X or Cleer Ally
> which would better suit my sound taste better?
> any info would be appreciated
> Thanks


They both share a kind of similar sound signature (fun sound with elevated bass, clear mid that not too recessed and not too forward and well extended high), but thr difference is the cleer ally has a much punchier bass and very smooth high. From my listening experience so far, I haven't found any songs that hurt my ear when using the cleer ally even at very high volume. The other difference is fit. The cleer has this large body and stem that may not fit to people's ear. While the T1X is more average size and easier to fit. Also, the price is more than double between the cleer ally and T1X ($119 and $59). But if talking only sound quality, the cleer ally is slightly better than T1X right now.


----------



## Luke Skywalker

tma6 said:


> Fantastic review! Now if only I could convince you to try the Nuarl N6 Pros..


Right on dude. Somebody in this thread recommended the N6’s to me and they’re awesome.  Big step up from Jabra 65’s

Have to agree though with another person who wants audiophile TWS   I’m in the mood for a new audio toy and I can’t find anything I want to get


----------



## Luke Skywalker

So a question for the audio geniuses... I have the N6’s and some JH Lola IEM’s for work.  Unfortunately, they hired an idiot who sits in the next cube who talks all day long. I badly want some TWS buds with active noise cancellation

I have an iPhone so AAC is important. AptxHD and LDAC would be ideal. I listen to mostly instrumental, classical and opera, blues, female vocals... no hip hop or heavy bass stuff.

so if price is no object, what should I buy? Also, are there any new TWS buds coming out soon to wait for?
Thanks for any advice!


----------



## erockg (Feb 13, 2020)

Luke Skywalker said:


> So a question for the audio geniuses... I have the N6’s and some JH Lola IEM’s for work.  Unfortunately, they hired an idiot who sits in the next cube who talks all day long. I badly want some TWS buds with active noise cancellation
> 
> I have an iPhone so AAC is important. AptxHD and LDAC would be ideal. I listen to mostly instrumental, classical and opera, blues, female vocals... no hip hop or heavy bass stuff.
> 
> ...


Best ANC, APP or the Sonys.  I'm using the Cleer Ally Plus with ANC.  I've got a loudmouth sitting near me at work as well.  iPhone isn't compatible with APTX.  I have the 11 Pro Max.  Soundstage on the Cleers and Sonys are great.


----------



## cwill (Feb 14, 2020)

base08 said:


> I think it’s bad advice telling to use SBC instead of AAC on Android...
> 
> 
> 
> ...



That's supposed to be the case. But when I have AAC on, I get the weird clipping/swirling type sound from drums. Like a super low bit rate sound. "Artifacts" maybe? I notice it instantaneously when I turn AAC on. AAC does not sound as good as SBC on my Pixel 3a at least.


----------



## voicemaster

Luke Skywalker said:


> So a question for the audio geniuses... I have the N6’s and some JH Lola IEM’s for work.  Unfortunately, they hired an idiot who sits in the next cube who talks all day long. I badly want some TWS buds with active noise cancellation
> 
> I have an iPhone so AAC is important. AptxHD and LDAC would be ideal. I listen to mostly instrumental, classical and opera, blues, female vocals... no hip hop or heavy bass stuff.
> 
> ...


I don't think there is any tws that uses AptxHD or LDAC yet. I could be wrong tho. Even sony xm3 doesn't use LDAC which is truly a missed opportunity. The closest one to tws setup that have AptxHD is the KZ bluetooth cable and it does sound really good tho range is a bit meh like most KZ bluetooth.


----------



## Caipirina

Burgerbassist said:


> Are the AirPods pro still considered the best for ANC?  I listen to a fair amount of non-music (podcasts, audiobooks, etc) on my commute, so if sound quality and signature aren't necessarily as big of a priority, is there anything recommended above the APP for pure ANC performance?


If you are in the iOS ecosystem, the AirPods Pro are your thing! ANC is great (I personally have not been able to direct compare with the Sony WF1000XM3, which I hear are also great in ANC) and the convenience factor paired with iPhone / Mac is fantastic, as is ease of use and fit. Listening to them as I type, also before on morning run (the Sony's are not really for work out)


----------



## tma6

Luke Skywalker said:


> Right on dude. Somebody in this thread recommended the N6’s to me and they’re awesome.  Big step up from Jabra 65’s
> 
> Have to agree though with another person who wants audiophile TWS   I’m in the mood for a new audio toy and I can’t find anything I want to get



Hahah honestly that person was probably me. I’ve been raving about them since I got my hands on them.

For ANC w good sound, seems like the best option is the Sony so far. The Sennheiser Momentem TWS 2 with ANC don’t seem like they’re coming out till May. Not sure when Bose is finally gonna release the true wireless 700s. Seems like the Cleer Ally Plus are getting some praise if you’re able to deal w no track skipping capability.


----------



## tma6 (Feb 14, 2020)

.


----------



## martiniCZ

cwill said:


> That's supposed to be the case. But when I have AAC on, I get the weird clipping/swirling type sound from drums. Like a super low bit rate sound. "Artifacts" maybe? I notice it instantaneously when I turn AAC on. It does not sound as good as SBC on my Pixel 3a at least.


Default SBC on android sounds terrible for me. But if you have Magisk installed, try install module BT stack audio bitrate changer for SBC. This works excelent even with my old phone and if I turn aptx off, then SBC now uses 576kbit/s. This is big improvement in SQ, very close to aptx and definitely significantly better than AAC implemented on android.


----------



## Luke Skywalker

tma6 said:


> Hahah honestly that person was probably me. I’ve been raving about them since I got my hands on them.
> 
> For ANC w good sound, seems like the best option is the Sony so far. The Sennheiser Momentem TWS 2 with ANC don’t seem like they’re coming out till May. Not sure when Bose is finally gonna release the true wireless 700s. Seems like the Cleer Ally Plus are getting some praise if you’re able to deal w no track skipping capability.


oh wow, I hadn't heard about the Sennheiser Momentem TWS 2's!  I can't wait to order them, thanks


----------



## base08

martiniCZ said:


> Default SBC on android sounds terrible for me. But if you have Magisk installed, try install module BT stack audio bitrate changer for SBC. This works excelent even with my old phone and if I turn aptx off, then SBC now uses 576kbit/s. This is big improvement in SQ, very close to aptx and definitely significantly better than AAC implemented on android.


You can increase the bitrate all you want, but the usual SBC artifacts won't go away, specially that noise around 5kHz while 20Hz-200Hz frequencies are playing...


----------



## martiniCZ

I haven't noticed that, but it's possible, I mostly use aptx. I just tried it and I was surprised it worked.


----------



## d3myz

Been away for a while. feels good to be back.  I still have about 23 pages to catch up, but I wanted to say I got some Medium Misodiko memory foam tips and they are a godsend. been using my echobuds more lately and with the shorter tips the seal is incredible and they are really comfy. The sound of the Echo buds is seriously impressive.


----------



## TooFrank

Caipirina said:


> Still using cable, not wireless charging in 2020 .. eeeeuuuuuggghh
> honestly, micro USB is still not a deal breaker for me ...
> 
> I keep having an itch to add a Sony XM3 to my collection ... already scouting 'cheap' places ... amazon.de has it for 180EU right now, e-earphone in Tokyo used for 153EU ... but I m not going to Japan anytime soon ... sigh ... need to curb my greed! (edit: eeeeekkkk ... found a local shop selling them for 47500LKR, which is 240EU / 260USD ... guess I have to be patient ... )
> ...


Just go for it - it is really that nice


----------



## cresny

In praise of ANC: I went with family last weekend to a winter Scout camp, and logistics put me in a cabin with eight other dads. Right by my bunk, not just a little wheezing, but constant repeating basso profundo, wave-of-destruction snoring. In the middle of the night, with earplugs in and pillow wrapped around my head I remembered that my Bose wired ANC earbuds were in my pack pocket. Man, those things didn't merely abate the noise, but fully canceled it! Complete angelic silence. 

I had to go out to the car to get the Li ion jump starter and slept with MacGyver-like wiring, but I wanted to relate this here in case anyone might find themselves in similar straights, camping or otherwise. The only TWS I know of that claims 8+ hours with ANC on are the Cleers (again sold out now), and given the situation would not require volume or music playback I'm inclined to believe that mfr battery claims might actually hold. If anyone knows of others I'm curious to know.


----------



## RobinFood

cresny said:


> In praise of ANC: I went with family last weekend to a winter Scout camp, and logistics put me in a cabin with eight other dads. Right by my bunk, not just a little wheezing, but constant repeating basso profundo, wave-of-destruction snoring. In the middle of the night, with earplugs in and pillow wrapped around my head I remembered that my Bose wired ANC earbuds were in my pack pocket. Man, those things didn't merely abate the noise, but fully canceled it! Complete angelic silence.
> 
> I had to go out to the car to get the Li ion jump starter and slept with MacGyver-like wiring, but I wanted to relate this here in case anyone might find themselves in similar straights, camping or otherwise. The only TWS I know of that claims 8+ hours with ANC on are the Cleers (again sold out now), and given the situation would not require volume or music playback I'm inclined to believe that mfr battery claims might actually hold. If anyone knows of others I'm curious to know.



The edifier tws nb has something crazy like 11 hours, the only thing is they don't look comfortable for sleeping...


----------



## jant71

RobinFood said:


> The edifier tws nb has something crazy like 11 hours, the only thing is they don't look comfortable for sleeping...



11 is with ANC off. Only 5 with the ANC on.


----------



## chinmie

The reviews on the GBuds+ seems to be coming in on the net, and i think it's a great improvement over the GBuds on the call quality (one of the primary complain about the older one). I even think it's better than the Airpods Pro and the 75T for calls (based on youtube videos). 
But i personally going to pass on upgrading, because i rarely take calls anyway nowadays, and also my XM3 call quality has greatly improved after the last FW update if ever i need to take any calls. 
The older Gbuds is still sufficient for me for daily use


----------



## chinmie

jant71 said:


> 11 is with ANC off. Only 5 with the ANC on.



Wow..that's a substantial drop..considering other ANC that i have would drop from around 7 hours (no ANC) to around 5-6 hours with ANC on. I was expecting  that the Edifier would do above 7 hours with ANC at least


----------



## RobinFood

jant71 said:


> 11 is with ANC off. Only 5 with the ANC on.


Really? I thought it was 15 hours with anc off and 11 with anc on. Thought I read it on an early review. That's disappointing considering how huge they look.


----------



## Luke Skywalker

voicemaster said:


> I don't think there is any tws that uses AptxHD or LDAC yet. I could be wrong tho. Even sony xm3 doesn't use LDAC which is truly a missed opportunity. The closest one to tws setup that have AptxHD is the KZ bluetooth cable and it does sound really good tho range is a bit meh like most KZ bluetooth.


Hey I just saw Sony is coming out with WH1000-XM4... maybe they’ll have new buds too with LDAC and better water resistance https://www.whathifi.com/us/news/sony-wh-1000xm4-release-date-leaks-and-all-of-the-news


----------



## BigZ12

The upgraded B&O E8 3.0 with BT 5.1, is still using NFMI. So that's a big no from me...
Why use a technology that uses SBC as codec in the left bud, whether the source uses AAC or AptX?


----------



## BigZ12

Why are the most expensive brands using NFMI? Jabra, Sennheiser, B&O... I have no problem hearing the artifacts with SBC on the left with the ones I've tried. (Elite 65T, MTW, E8 2.0)
I was about to buy the B&O E8 3.0 at almost $400  , but after reading they use NFMI I didn't.
I'm afraid the updated Senn' MTW 2 will use NFMI too... 

When using my Lypertek Tevi, Tronsmart Spunky Beats, Anbes 359 and QCY T2C I don't hear this at all. No noise whatsoever.
What tech do they use? (I know I've asked this before, but didn't get an answer)


----------



## marcusd

Spent a bit of time with Sudio's TOLV TWS. NIce design and small and very easy to set up but a bit boomy in sound. 

https://headfonics.com/2020/02/sudio-tolv-tws-wireless-weekend/


----------



## X-Nemesis

In regards to ANC tws when sleeping, what if you're a side sleeper?  Every tws I've seen are gargantuan and look impossible for side sleepers.


----------



## chinmie

X-Nemesis said:


> In regards to ANC tws when sleeping, what if you're a side sleeper?  Every tws I've seen are gargantuan and look impossible for side sleepers.



the Airsun X8 ANC is small enough to be comfortable for sleeping sideways


----------



## howdy (Feb 15, 2020)

X-Nemesis said:


> In regards to ANC tws when sleeping, what if you're a side sleeper?  Every tws I've seen are gargantuan and look impossible for side sleepers.


The Earin M2s are super small and sound good. they might still be selling these on their website in black only. Ive had a pair now for a long time and they are the smallest ones I own, and have seen. They are not NC but are small enough for side sleepers.


----------



## Blueshound24

X-Nemesis said:


> In regards to ANC tws when sleeping, what if you're a side sleeper?  Every tws I've seen are gargantuan and look impossible for side sleepers.



The MTW100 is tiny compared to most. You can easily lie on your side.


----------



## tma6

Just wondering, anyone tried these mpow anc earbuds?

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B082G2RKSV/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_IzbsEb60KDKTM


----------



## Luke Skywalker

X-Nemesis said:


> In regards to ANC tws when sleeping, what if you're a side sleeper?  Every tws I've seen are gargantuan and look impossible for side sleepers.


I’m a side sleeper and I’ve done it with my Jabra active elite 65’s with foam tips. I use an iOS app called brainwave with thunderstorms. You need kind of a soft pillow though so you can make a little depression for your ear.  Not bad but definitely not as comfy as no bud at all


----------



## voicemaster

X-Nemesis said:


> In regards to ANC tws when sleeping, what if you're a side sleeper?  Every tws I've seen are gargantuan and look impossible for side sleepers.


Tronsmart spunky beat is small and has slim design profile.


----------



## jant71

chinmie said:


> Wow..that's a substantial drop..considering other ANC that i have would drop from around 7 hours (no ANC) to around 5-6 hours with ANC on. I was expecting  that the Edifier would do above 7 hours with ANC at least


Reviews had all been saying it was better ANC than the APP so I figured it was better but more battery intensive. No volume control and sticking out a bit did override the price for me.



RobinFood said:


> Really? I thought it was 15 hours with anc off and 11 with anc on. Thought I read it on an early review. That's disappointing considering how huge they look.



15 hours yes that is what they state with the case so 5 plus two more recharges in the case. 11 hours plus two more for 33 w/o ANC.



Luke Skywalker said:


> Hey I just saw Sony is coming out with WH1000-XM4... maybe they’ll have new buds too with LDAC and better water resistance https://www.whathifi.com/us/news/sony-wh-1000xm4-release-date-leaks-and-all-of-the-news



Buuuut, this is new Sony not older Sony so it is more like what they will leave out or screw up this time that will prevent it from being what we would really want it to be.


----------



## X-Nemesis (Feb 15, 2020)

chinmie said:


> the Airsun X8 ANC is small enough to be comfortable for sleeping sideways



Right on, Thanks and also for the other suggestions on the Shanlings and the Spunkybeats.


----------



## Luke Skywalker

I was talking to a dude on another thread who claimed that his custom IEM’s isolate sound just as good or even better than ANC TWS.  Does that sound legit?
I had been thinking of getting customs in any case.  Although I have no clue what kind to get haha


----------



## brtalush

tma6 said:


> Just wondering, anyone tried these mpow anc earbuds?
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/dp/B082G2RKSV/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_IzbsEb60KDKTM


It’s now $50 after $15 coupon.


----------



## RobinFood (Feb 15, 2020)

Luke Skywalker said:


> I was talking to a dude on another thread who claimed that his custom IEM’s isolate sound just as good or even better than ANC TWS.  Does that sound legit?
> I had been thinking of getting customs in any case.  Although I have no clue what kind to get haha



My etymotics block out sound just as good if not better than the last generation of anc, circa wh-1000xm2. I haven't heard the latest generation of anc. One thing though is that they are not easy to put on quickly or take off, and they are a lot less comfortable than more shallow fitting iems. YMMV though, especially with customs with regards to comfort, but they will still take longer to slip on our off.


----------



## chinmie

Luke Skywalker said:


> I was talking to a dude on another thread who claimed that his custom IEM’s isolate sound just as good or even better than ANC TWS.  Does that sound legit?
> I had been thinking of getting customs in any case.  Although I have no clue what kind to get haha



for mids and high frequency, sure. but for low freq rumble, no way it can beat ANC enabled devices


----------



## cresny

RobinFood said:


> My etymotics block out sound just as good if not better than the last generation of anc, circa wh-1000xm2.


I disagree. I have etymotics and I have a couple ANC headphones. Maybe etymotics are better with highs, but without ANC low frequency rumble will creep in no matter how well you stuff your ears.


----------



## gibletzor

If anyone is still looking to pick up the Fiil T1X or even a 2nd pair, looks like they'll be on a lightning deal on Amazon tomorrow morning around 10AM or 930AM for Prime members.  Not sure what price they'll have yet.


----------



## erockg (Feb 16, 2020)

BigZ12 said:


> The upgraded B&O E8 3.0 with BT 5.1, is still using NFMI. So that's a big no from me...
> Why use a technology that uses SBC as codec in the left bud, whether the source uses AAC or AptX?


Not sure what you mean.  I just picked them up.  It’s AAC on the iPhone.  They are pretty great so far.


----------



## assassin10000

erockg said:


> Not sure what you mean.  I just picked them up.  It’s AAC on the iPhone.  They are pretty great so far.



He means the master bud is connected via bluetooth using AAC or APT-X to the phone BUT the slave is connected to the master bud via NFMI not Bluetooth, which uses SBC.

So only one ear gets AAC/APT-X and the other SBC.


----------



## RobinFood (Feb 16, 2020)

cresny said:


> I disagree. I have etymotics and I have a couple ANC headphones. Maybe etymotics are better with highs, but without ANC low frequency rumble will creep in no matter how well you stuff your ears.



With small comply foams or the beige etymotics foams on the train I hear absolutely no rumble. With triple flanges that is another story though.

For me personally it blocks about as much low frequency as when I tried my friend's MDR-1000x anc overear set five or so years ago on the train, that consistent clanging of the train cars and the screeching friction of the rails on the wheels.

Hearing the improvements on the WH-1000XM3 though I am not sure if it is as good as modern noise cancelling, but it is quite a hassle to put on etys for me. I would prefer a less tedious process to get rid of train noise.


----------



## erockg (Feb 16, 2020)

assassin10000 said:


> He means the master bud is connected via bluetooth using AAC or APT-X to the phone BUT the slave is connected to the master bud via NFMI not Bluetooth, which uses SBC.
> 
> So only one ear gets AAC/APT-X and the other SBC.


Interesting.  Didn’t know that.  Just read up. But I’m not finding any info that the 3rd gen uses NFMI.

Just read this online in a MTW manual:  

NFMI uses SBC as audio codec, however the NFMI-SBC codec uses a higher bit rate (596 kbit/s transmission rate for mono signal) compared to BT-SBC codec (max bitrates in Bluetooth specification for A2DP profile: standard 237 kbit/s stereo, high quality 345 kbit/s stereo).
As the result, the NFMI audio quality is comparable to aptX-Bluetooth audio, but not identical.


----------



## Caipirina

When TWS case designers go too far ... or found Jesus ...





I actually know those buds, they came several weeks ago in a different case ... I wonder if this was meant as a promotional gift for some bible convention and then the deal fell through.


----------



## BigZ12 (Feb 16, 2020)

erockg said:


> Interesting.  Didn’t know that.  Just read up. But I’m not finding any info that the 3rd gen uses NFMI.
> 
> Just read this online in a MTW manual:
> 
> ...


This doesn't matter, since NFMI-SBC still introduce the "SBC-noise" I've found in several songs. It's even more noticably using this: https://www.szynalski.com/tone-generator/ (play 20-150hz and you hear a "tinny" noise on the left with the bass)
I think the noise is the same that was illustrated in a post a couple of pages ago.
(https://www.head-fi.org/threads/goi...e-we-there-yet.861024/page-1326#post-15466566)

I really don't understand why these expensive buds use NFMI...

Edit: https://beoprime.com/detail/index/sArticle/519 (NFMI is listed there, and I also found it in the product description on a Norwegian hifi shop, Hifi Klubben)


----------



## Juneway (Feb 16, 2020)

Is it normal for the n6 pro to have have interference when playing music in a crowded area like a mall? I just got my set exchanged due to driver flex, but now there is this annoying cracking sound when I am in a mall.


----------



## base08

BigZ12 said:


> This doesn't matter, since NFMI-SBC still introduce the "SBC-noise" I've found in several songs. It's even more noticably using this: https://www.szynalski.com/tone-generator/ (play 20-150hz and you hear a "tinny" noise on the left with the bass)
> I think the noise is the same that was illustrated in a post a couple of pages ago.
> (https://www.head-fi.org/threads/goi...e-we-there-yet.861024/page-1326#post-15466566)
> 
> ...



Amazing that such company would implement and later aprove such audio quality...

To me is also baffling that SBC was developed with such a huge flaw in their encoding process. Why the engineers behind the SBC codec didn’t perform these frequency sweeping tests is to me a big mistery...


----------



## Zeo-Gold92

Has anyone tried the lypertek tevi or shanling mtw100 with the hiby r3 or r3pro? I'm looking to get the r3pro with a pair of tws for bike riding. are there any other sets that I should be looking at. I picked those two since they seemed to review pretty good and are under $150AUD. I'd be listening to mostly, pop, hip hop, rock, prog and metal.


----------



## chinmie

i just met my friend who recently purchased the Spunky Beat, and i tried it for a few songs. got to say I'm impressed. good sound for the price


----------



## Bhelpoori

base08 said:


> Amazing that such company would implement and later aprove such audio quality...
> 
> To me is also baffling that SBC was developed with such a huge flaw in their encoding process. Why the engineers behind the SBC codec didn’t perform these frequency sweeping tests is to me a big mistery...


SBC was mandatory in the first version of A2DP in Bluetooth which was released in mid-2003 and first draft was in 2001 if I remember correctly. Whilst I appreciate your views, the technology scene was a little different in 2001 and nobody could have expected that SBC would be used in this manner. Indeed, the allowance and addition of optional codecs in the spec was deliberately done to allow SBC's replacement where needed. SBC was just a free, easy to implement, low battery usage, lowest common denominator codec that was needed to ensure baseline compatibility. Personally I'm amazed that it is still used almost 20 years later, though I guess AptX is much older, so I shouldn't be too surprised...


----------



## howdy

I have CIEMs and the WF1000xm3 and I can say the XM3S block a lot more outside sound when no music is playing.
Also, being that you said you are looking for CIEMs you need to check out Alclair, (my model is the RSM)this is what I have. Best sound I've heard from and headphone/IEM and mine are over 5 years old.


----------



## erockg (Feb 16, 2020)

BigZ12 said:


> This doesn't matter, since NFMI-SBC still introduce the "SBC-noise" I've found in several songs. It's even more noticably using this: https://www.szynalski.com/tone-generator/ (play 20-150hz and you hear a "tinny" noise on the left with the bass)
> I think the noise is the same that was illustrated in a post a couple of pages ago.
> (https://www.head-fi.org/threads/goi...e-we-there-yet.861024/page-1326#post-15466566)
> 
> ...


The good news for me is that my old ears can’t hear what you're talking about. But still testing...

Also, that said, I cannot hear distortion in a particular song that I heard distortion in using the Cleer Ally Plus.


----------



## hifi80sman

BigZ12 said:


> This doesn't matter, since NFMI-SBC still introduce the "SBC-noise" I've found in several songs. It's even more noticably using this: https://www.szynalski.com/tone-generator/ (play 20-150hz and you hear a "tinny" noise on the left with the bass)
> I think the noise is the same that was illustrated in a post a couple of pages ago.
> (https://www.head-fi.org/threads/goi...e-we-there-yet.861024/page-1326#post-15466566)
> 
> ...


I wonder if it has something to do with a second Qualcomm chip in the other earbud being more costly than a NFMI chip.  Usually, it all boils down to profit margins.  We all know B&O is super-inflated in terms of pricing.


----------



## SoundChoice (Feb 16, 2020)

gibletzor said:


> If anyone is still looking to pick up the Fiil T1X or even a 2nd pair, looks like they'll be on a lightning deal on Amazon tomorrow morning around 10AM or 930AM for Prime members.  Not sure what price they'll have yet.



Currently
* $42.49 (Save 47%)*

Great IEM, good punchy bass, lots of fit options (tips, wings), IPX 5, volume control.


----------



## voicemaster

SoundChoice said:


> Currently
> * $42.49 (Save 47%)*
> 
> Great IEM, good punchy bass, lots of fit options (tips, wings), IPX 5, volume control.


Low latency mode for gaming and an app for both iOS and android.


----------



## BigZ12

hifi80sman said:


> I wonder if it has something to do with a second Qualcomm chip in the other earbud being more costly than a NFMI chip.  Usually, it all boils down to profit margins.  We all know B&O is super-inflated in terms of pricing.


So in the Lypertek Tevi, for example, there is a Qualcomm 3020 chip in both buds? They are communicating to eachother through bluetooth, whether just one of them are connected to the source (in my case an iPhone)?
And the B&O E8 3.0 is communicating to the iPhone with one Qualcomm chip, but with near field magnetic interface from right to left? And that is a cheaper tech?


----------



## Luke Skywalker

erockg said:


> Not sure what you mean.  I just picked them up.  It’s AAC on the iPhone.  They are pretty great so far.


Wow, nice!  I've been looking hard for some high end TWS with noise cancelling and AAC. How's the noise cancelling?  What do you think of the sound in general?  What kind of music have you listened to on them?


----------



## Luke Skywalker

Juneway said:


> Is it normal for the n6 pro to have have interference when playing music in a crowded area like a mall? I just got my set exchanged due to driver flex, but now there is this annoying cracking sound when I am in a mall.


That sounds strange to me.  I wear mine all over the place, like in a crowded gym today and i've never gotten that.


----------



## BigZ12

Luke Skywalker said:


> Wow, nice!  I've been looking hard for some high end TWS with noise cancelling and AAC. How's the noise cancelling?  What do you think of the sound in general?  What kind of music have you listened to on them?


They don't have ANC. (and use NFMI)... still they cost $350...


----------



## Luke Skywalker

RobinFood said:


> With small comply foams or the beige etymotics foams on the train I hear absolutely no rumble. With triple flanges that is another story though.
> 
> For me personally it blocks about as much low frequency as when I tried my friend's MDR-1000x anc overear set five or so years ago on the train, that consistent clanging of the train cars and the screeching friction of the rails on the wheels.
> 
> Hearing the improvements on the WH-1000XM3 though I am not sure if it is as good as modern noise cancelling, but it is quite a hassle to put on etys for me. I would prefer a less tedious process to get rid of train noise.


This is great information, thank you!  I'd mainly be drowning out the idiots who work next to my desk and talk all day, not choo choo train sounds   If you can believe it, I've never been on a train but I digress... 

I'm thinking about getting some custom Layla's from JH Audio... I have the Lola and I love the sound.  They're loaning me a pair of universal Layla's to check out, which I'm very much looking forward to...  If they sound as good as I hope they will, I'll probably get 'em.  With the 20% "return customer discount", the price seems fairly reasonable for a high end custom IEM


----------



## Luke Skywalker

BigZ12 said:


> They don't have ANC. (and use NFMI)... still they cost $350...


That seems like a strange choice on their part to not include ANC... I wonder why...


----------



## Luke Skywalker

howdy said:


> I have CIEMs and the WF1000xm3 and I can say the XM3S block a lot more outside sound when no music is playing.
> Also, being that you said you are looking for CIEMs you need to check out Alclair, (my model is the RSM)this is what I have. Best sound I've heard from and headphone/IEM and mine are over 5 years old.


I just checked those out and they look sweet...  Pretty affordable too, relatively speaking.  $1,499 for the REVX 10 driver


----------



## erockg

Luke Skywalker said:


> Wow, nice!  I've been looking hard for some high end TWS with noise cancelling and AAC. How's the noise cancelling?  What do you think of the sound in general?  What kind of music have you listened to on them?


They’re not ANC, just passive isolation but do a great job.  I’ve had all the E8 gen and these are definitely better than the last three.  I’m really loving the sound.  I listen mostly to hard rock, metal and movie scores.  All sound great.  I know I paid a premium but they’re def a gorgeous package.  Love Qi charging as well.  

Getting the new Galaxy Buds + today and look forward to comparing the two.


----------



## Juneway

Luke Skywalker said:


> That sounds strange to me.  I wear mine all over the place, like in a crowded gym today and i've never gotten that.


Sigh... Guess I will make another trip to the service center then...


----------



## RobinFood

Juneway said:


> Sigh... Guess I will make another trip to the service center then...



It could be your source, too.

My Nuarls were very spotty in crowded places when I used my shanling m0 as a source but with the g7 power they are rock solid everywhere


----------



## hifi80sman

BigZ12 said:


> So in the Lypertek Tevi, for example, there is a Qualcomm 3020 chip in both buds? They are communicating to eachother through bluetooth, whether just one of them are connected to the source (in my case an iPhone)?
> And the B&O E8 3.0 is communicating to the iPhone with one Qualcomm chip, but with near field magnetic interface from right to left? And that is a cheaper tech?


I'm not 100% clear on how it's done exactly, but I would imagine if you can use each earbud independently (L/R channel), then each would have a DSP, codec support, etc. instead of a master/slave setup.


----------



## Bhelpoori

hifi80sman said:


> I'm not 100% clear on how it's done exactly, but I would imagine if you can use each earbud independently (L/R channel), then each would have a DSP, codec support, etc. instead of a master/slave setup.


In answer to the NFMI and the above. 

NFMI is at a much lower frequency than Bluetooth (2.4Ghz versus 13Mhz for NFMI) which allows it to go through the body, unlike Bluetooth. If you want to connect the L and Right together without having two connections to the Bluetooth transmitter then it is best way of doing it. Today, it is a tiny single chip, low power solution with a typical almost 600kbps transmission speed, so generally better bandwidth than typical Bluetooth audio to the TWS, however, there is no standard for audio codec which means that anything (or what is cheapest/easiest to engineer/lowest power etc) goes.
AAC or LDAC encoding would use too much power so you'd need some other encoder for NFMI
Each earphone has exactly the same chip otherwise you wouldn't be able to use them independently, the only difference is that when they are paired together, one is an NFMI transmitter/NFMI audio encoder and Bluetooth receiver/Bluetooth audio decoder, and the other an NFMI receiver/NFMI audio decoder... hence why you sometimes see differences in power consumption on each side
Using Bluetooth for both sides today needs proprietary help, such as timing synchronisation, until we see the next version (aka LE-Audio) implemented.


----------



## jlcsoft

base08 said:


> Amazing that such company would implement and later aprove such audio quality...
> 
> To me is also baffling that SBC was developed with such a huge flaw in their encoding process. Why the engineers behind the SBC codec didn’t perform these frequency sweeping tests is to me a big mistery...





Zeo-Gold92 said:


> Has anyone tried the lypertek tevi or shanling mtw100 with the hiby r3 or r3pro? I'm looking to get the r3pro with a pair of tws for bike riding. are there any other sets that I should be looking at. I picked those two since they seemed to review pretty good and are under $150AUD. I'd be listening to mostly, pop, hip hop, rock, prog and metal.


I have many problems with hiby r5 bluetooth walking in the city when the hiby is inside the pockets. Try to probe it before buyiing it.


----------



## abanchii

Found these TWS earbuds on Indiegogo for $50.

Apparently, they come with the QCC5121 chip and have ANC, DSP, aptX HD, aptX Adaptive along with 12 hrs back up & IPX7. Seems too good to be true. Don't really know if there is any other earbud on the market with aptX HD.

Any idea how they might turn out? And, should I take the plunge?


----------



## mikp

abanchii said:


> Found these TWS earbuds on Indiegogo for $50.
> 
> Apparently, they come with the QCC5121 chip and have ANC, DSP, aptX HD, aptX Adaptive along with 12 hrs back up & IPX7. Seems too good to be true. Don't really know if there is any other earbud on the market with aptX HD.
> 
> Any idea how they might turn out? And, should I take the plunge?


no


----------



## BigZ12 (Feb 17, 2020)

I got my Lypertek Tevi replacement today. They agreed to replace the ones that were ruined by resetting them after the beta upgrade.
Free DHL Express from Hong Kong (sent Thurday, got them today) AND to my surprise: These are updated with the same sound signature as the beta upgrade, and with working app connection. They also have the new packaging as described on Lyperteks home page, so it proves I got the latest version.
I'm sooo pleased!  It can't get better than this. They sound fantastic straight out of the box with the standard silicone tips. (M)


----------



## chinmie

abanchii said:


> Found these TWS earbuds on Indiegogo for $50.
> 
> Apparently, they come with the QCC5121 chip and have ANC, DSP, aptX HD, aptX Adaptive along with 12 hrs back up & IPX7. Seems too good to be true. Don't really know if there is any other earbud on the market with aptX HD.
> 
> Any idea how they might turn out? And, should I take the plunge?



ordering something from AE took long enough time, i don't want to wait for longer time. 
the only indiegogo project i ever participated was the Pamu Scroll


----------



## DDDYKI

erockg said:


> They’re not ANC, just passive isolation but do a great job.  I’ve had all the E8 gen and these are definitely better than the last three.  I’m really loving the sound.  I listen mostly to hard rock, metal and movie scores.  All sound great.  I know I paid a premium but they’re def a gorgeous package.  Love Qi charging as well.
> 
> Getting the new Galaxy Buds + today and look forward to comparing the two.


Looking forward to your comparison since I'm also a rock/metal guy. I'm strongly considering the E8 3.0. I'm not sure whether my next phone will be a Samsung so the Galaxy Buds' proprietary codec may be worthless to me in the near future. Hanging onto my S9+ for now.


----------



## Blueshound24

TWS600 marked down to $79. Good deal if you can deal with their lack of bass, or eq them.

https://www.amazon.com/HIFIMAN-Waterproof-Noise-Isolated-Earphones-Bluetooth/dp/B07TR4C9L2/


----------



## Inear

Looks like the Bose Earbuds 500, and 700 got delayed. It say's coming late in 2020. I'm tired of waiting.


----------



## Luke Skywalker

erockg said:


> They’re not ANC, just passive isolation but do a great job.  I’ve had all the E8 gen and these are definitely better than the last three.  I’m really loving the sound.  I listen mostly to hard rock, metal and movie scores.  All sound great.  I know I paid a premium but they’re def a gorgeous package.  Love Qi charging as well.
> 
> Getting the new Galaxy Buds + today and look forward to comparing the two.


Nice!  the price sounds totally reasonable for great sound... I just need to decide how bad I want ANC...


----------



## Luke Skywalker

RobinFood said:


> It could be your source, too.
> 
> My Nuarls were very spotty in crowded places when I used my shanling m0 as a source but with the g7 power they are rock solid everywhere


I was pleasantly surprised by the range on the Nuarls... I can walk all the way upstairs in my hizzle and the music doesn't skip or drop.  I've enjoyed the Jabra 65's but I can barely walk into the next room.  Same Tidal tracks off same device (iphone...)


----------



## hifi80sman

Bhelpoori said:


> In answer to the NFMI and the above.
> 
> NFMI is at a much lower frequency than Bluetooth (2.4Ghz versus 13Mhz for NFMI) which allows it to go through the body, unlike Bluetooth. If you want to connect the L and Right together without having two connections to the Bluetooth transmitter then it is best way of doing it. Today, it is a tiny single chip, low power solution with a typical almost 600kbps transmission speed, so generally better bandwidth than typical Bluetooth audio to the TWS, however, there is no standard for audio codec which means that anything (or what is cheapest/easiest to engineer/lowest power etc) goes.
> AAC or LDAC encoding would use too much power so you'd need some other encoder for NFMI
> ...


Sounds like NFMI is a combination of being more cost effective in terms of hardware and easier to engineer, which itself drives more cost efficiencies.


----------



## Bhelpoori

hifi80sman said:


> Sounds like NFMI is a combination of being more cost effective in terms of hardware and easier to engineer, which itself drives more cost efficiencies.


Whilst true, Bluetooth won’t go through your skull but NFMI will so there’s some physics in there too.


----------



## SilverEars

Blueshound24 said:


> TWS600 marked down to $79. Good deal if you can deal with their lack of bass, or eq them.
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/HIFIMAN-Waterproof-Noise-Isolated-Earphones-Bluetooth/dp/B07TR4C9L2/


Not worth it.  Reaponse is beyond wonky.  I doubt that EQ can fix it.


----------



## DigDub

Tried the galaxy buds plus. Ok sound quality. Mids sounds a bit artificial and bass lacks a tad of definition. Not the best choice in sound quality (Nuarl N6 Pro still the best to me). The mic is great though.


----------



## Darkestred (Feb 17, 2020)

Back from canjam.

*Soundcore Anker Liberty 2 Pros* - Nice TWS offering. Great upper-range detail and low-end emphasis from a TWS. Solid mid-range performance. I wound up getting a pair but havent put them through their paces. Very impressed. They will be replacing my noble falcons and i may put those up for sale.
*RHA TWS* - this reminded me of the LP2s but refined. Almost exactly the same sound. 5-hour battery life and cutouts i was experiencing were a deal breaker. But the ~$80 show price was almost tempting.
*SONY WF1000 *- They were ok.

Didnt see anything from AT but also didn't look very hard.  I feel like i am missing another offering but it must not have been that good.


----------



## doboo57

Anyone tried both the Shanling MTW100 and the Mifo O7?
I'm struggling between these two and wondering which one has the better sound quality... Both have great reviews and are in the same price range here in Canada.


----------



## voicemaster

doboo57 said:


> Anyone tried both the Shanling MTW100 and the Mifo O7?
> I'm struggling between these two and wondering which one has the better sound quality... Both have great reviews and are in the same price range here in Canada.


The mifo07 does have a really good sound quality, but don't expect thunderous bass and be mindful that it can't be listened at max volume. Mine is the dual BA drivers version.


----------



## Caipirina

Inear said:


> Looks like the Bose Earbuds 500, and 700 got delayed. It say's coming late in 2020. I'm tired of waiting.


Source?


----------



## 13gsc13

For a sound comparable to Senn TWS
Lypertek Tevi or FIIL T1X ?


----------



## georgelai57

https://www.sony.com.sg/electronics/truly-wireless/wf-h800
Available soon in Singapore


----------



## caprimulgus

Are there any latency specs or comparisons between Qualcomm TrueWireless Stereo Plus and Apt-X Low Latency, in regards to the notional latency performance? The literature (marketing) around Stereo Plus is that it is supposed to reduce latency - but that appears to be against regular daisy-chained bluetooth transmission. Is Stereo Plus an actual low latency codec, like AptX-LL? Or is it just a "lower" (but still bad) latency codec?

Couldn't find any comparisons in my quick google.


----------



## FYLegend (Feb 18, 2020)

Anyone tried EPZ S350? Looks like a very promising option with wireless charging, Type C and nice rainbow/gradient designs. HILL AUDIO compared it to Lypertek Tevi as opposed to Sabbat E12 in terms of SQ. However, it seems like Aliexpress stores are only listing the standard Realtek version and not QCC3026 variant.
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/400...earchweb0_0,searchweb201602_,searchweb201603_

I've tried the QCC3020 on the Sabbat E12 Ultra and Tronsmart Onyx Neo, and am less than impressed with the experience, at least on non-TWS+ devices. It still uses a master-slave connection and in some busy situations the buds will desync or skip. It's to the point I know exact locations downtown where this happens (at least with my phone). The fact that the music pauses temporarily is rather irritating compared to Realtek or Airoha options. The latency is only slightly better than other TWS but falls behind SBC speakers and AptX headphones. Regardless of codec Windows 10 has far better latency which is still noticeable but bearable for gaming. The problem comes if you are doing intensive tasks - SBC has a tendency to stutter while AptX devices are less likely to do this.


----------



## Bhelpoori

caprimulgus said:


> Are there any latency specs or comparisons between Qualcomm TrueWireless Stereo Plus and Apt-X Low Latency, in regards to the notional latency performance? The literature (marketing) around Stereo Plus is that it is supposed to reduce latency - but that appears to be against regular daisy-chained bluetooth transmission. Is Stereo Plus an actual low latency codec, like AptX-LL? Or is it just a "lower" (but still bad) latency codec?
> 
> Couldn't find any comparisons in my quick google.


Two different things: Apt-X LL (where it exists) is a low latency variation of Apt-X so is a codec. Qualcomm TWS is a way to eliminate NFMI between the right and left and a proprietary variation of Bluetooth transmission. The only affect on latency TWS has is eliminating the delay between the two sides. You would need both to get the lowest latency.

If you care about latency then use wired since no variation currently is good enough, at least for for me, unless the program has latency compensation (e.g. Netflix).


----------



## caprimulgus (Feb 18, 2020)

Bhelpoori said:


> Two different things: Apt-X LL (where it exists) is a low latency variation of Apt-X so is a codec. Qualcomm TWS is a way to eliminate NFMI between the right and left and a proprietary variation of Bluetooth transmission. The only affect on latency TWS has is eliminating the delay between the two sides. You would need both to get the lowest latency.



Ah ok. Then I guess my question then is: does Qualcomm TWS Plus actually support AptX-LL? (Or some low latency mode under AptX Adaptive)

Was only asking because the marketing on that sony H800 linked above was harping on about latency. But really, given it’s still using AAC or SBC, the latency is still going to suck!



Bhelpoori said:


> If you care about latency then use wired since no variation currently is good enough, at least for for me, unless the program has latency compensation (e.g. Netflix).



I’m happy with AptX Low Latency. If I can get AptX-LL (or equivalent) over Qualcomm TWS Plus, I’d be happy!


----------



## RobinFood

I just got the wf-1000xm3 as a birthday present to myself from myself. I'm really enjoying the sound and the eq options. The noise cancelling and ambient mode are both awesome. I was just wondering when in noise cancelling mode does anyone else hear an electric rustling sound in the right ear when music is paused? It's really not loud and almost impossible to hear when music is playing, but still irritating. It's there a firmware update our anything to fix it? The Nuarl NT01AX had a similar sound and was gone after a few firmware updates.


----------



## Caipirina

georgelai57 said:


> https://www.sony.com.sg/electronics/truly-wireless/wf-h800
> Available soon in Singapore


First Sony TWS without ANC? Oh, no, wait, there is also that swim model ... the SP900 ... 

Nothing too ravishing about those 800, unless you are looking for colors. Was incidentally listening with my WF1000x today a bit, and they are still holding up really well. Only that ANC they offer is rather laughable.


----------



## Bhelpoori

caprimulgus said:


> Ah ok. Then I guess my question then is: does Qualcomm TWS Plus actually support AptX-LL? (Or some low latency mode under AptX Adaptive)
> 
> Was only asking because the marketing on that sony H800 linked above was harping on about latency. But really, given it’s still using AAC or SBC, the latency is still going to suck!
> 
> I’m happy with AptX Low Latency. If I can get AptX-LL (or equivalent) over Qualcomm TWS Plus, I’d be happy!


I'm sure since they are both Qualcomm that TWS Plus supports AptX in all variations. As I said, they are independent of each other.

The marketing says "
*Perfect for TV shows, movies and more*
_Watching video content on your smartphone or tablet? Unlike some wireless headphones, the low-latency wireless connection on the WF-H800 syncs what you see on screen precisely with what you hear on your headphones."_

Which translated suggests that they have latency compensation when playing video, though actually I think that is mainly the responsibility of the player app/OS, rather than they having much low latency smarts in the headphone. It will be interesting to see if the H800 is any different from the ANC earlier version (WF-1000XM3) regarding latency...

----
As I said previously, if you're looking for audio/video latency that's good for video editing or highly reactive gaming then we're still way off even if you manage to get an AptX-LL with TWS Plus headphone with a device that supports both.


----------



## tma6

These just popped up on amazon. They seem intriguing but don’t know much about this company.

AU-Stream Hybrid | True Wireless Hybrid Noise-Canceling Earbud (Black) https://www.amazon.com/dp/B083DVG466/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_-cbtEbWJTG69V


----------



## hifi80sman

Anyone try the Galaxy Buds + yet?  The look interesting.  They describe a "dual driver" system and the illustrations show it as something a little different than what the typical BA looks like.


----------



## doboo57

voicemaster said:


> The mifo07 does have a really good sound quality, but don't expect thunderous bass and be mindful that it can't be listened at max volume. Mine is the dual BA drivers version.



Thanks a lot for this short description, it’s appreciated.
I’m not a basshead anyway (I prefer a more neutral and balanced sound).
So, can you tell a bit how does the O7 sounds in terms of treble? I’m a bit concerned since I’m a bit treble-sensitive (especially sibilance)…
And how does it sounds vs the Samsung Galaxy Buds?


----------



## vaaccess

doboo57 said:


> Thanks a lot for this short description, it’s appreciated.
> I’m not a basshead anyway (I prefer a more neutral and balanced sound).
> So, can you tell a bit how does the O7 sounds in terms of treble? I’m a bit concerned since I’m a bit treble-sensitive (especially sibilance)…
> And how does it sounds vs the Samsung Galaxy Buds?



I have the Mifo O7 as well and think you should give them a try. For me, they have a great studio monitor sound profile. I actually find the bass perfect, though would agree it’s not for bass-heads.

I bought mine on Amazon US and someone else bought theirs from MifoDirect. Theirs has “New” on the label and they seem to have some low frequency clipping issues, something I and others have not had.

in my opinion, the most important thing is to get it from someone that is easy to return to. QC of all these ear pods seems to be a little suspect, though some (1TX driver flex for instance) are worse than others.

I use my O7s with these Misodiko foam tips and LOVE the combo!

Misodiko TWS-Pro Earbuds -> https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07RJKTHSG


----------



## LordToneeus

FYLegend said:


> Further impressions of the Aufo M1:
> Buzzing distortion occurs with certain bass or piano notes. Very bad in the intro of Magic by Coldplay or the drums in Luv (Sic) by Nujabes. I don't know if it's just my unit as it isn't noticeable with upbeat tracks. Considering exchanging or returning them - not sure if other users have experienced this. It's a shame they have this "aufo" distortion because the sound is otherwise nicely balanced with a fairly large soundstage. They have fairly deep bass but it only shows in certain tracks. Treble is smooth with a bit of sparkle.
> 
> Connectivity on my Exynos Note 9 is decent, but it does occasionally cut off if I'm dancing with them with my phone on the table. The BE30 UFO had a similar issue so I suspect it is a similar (Realtek?) chipset. On Windows 10 with SBC the connectivity is mediocre. Latency is much better than Android and ok for gaming, but I get cut-outs when multitasking. AptX devices works much better in this regard.
> ...


Just got my Aufo's today, and I must say... they don't sound... Aufo to me.  Very clear, balanced sound.  Definitely not bass-cannons, but neither are they muddy in the slightest.  These are also some of the slimmest profile TWS I've used - remind me of the Bomaker Sifi's in depth of fit.  I might very well be able to sleep with these in.  

Transparency mode is a joke.  Oh, you can hear everything around you crystal clear, but it guts the volume of whatever is playing so much as to be all but useless.  

I'm happy with this purchase given the Lightning Deal + the $10 coupon on Amazon.  As long as they're truly IPX7 - which means I should be able to shower with them - they'll definitely see a lot of use from me.


----------



## Mouseman

abanchii said:


> Found these TWS earbuds on Indiegogo for $50.
> 
> Apparently, they come with the QCC5121 chip and have ANC, DSP, aptX HD, aptX Adaptive along with 12 hrs back up & IPX7. Seems too good to be true. Don't really know if there is any other earbud on the market with aptX HD.
> 
> Any idea how they might turn out? And, should I take the plunge?


Wow -- so many claims on the IG page, but I don't see anywhere they've listed as "magical" being one of the features. If you have a spare $49 you never want to see again, go for it!  

I have made the mistake of buying more than one pair of TWS on KS or IG, and I have vowed never again. Even if I have eventually gotten something (late), it has never lived up to the claims.


----------



## erockg (Feb 19, 2020)

hifi80sman said:


> Anyone try the Galaxy Buds + yet?  The look interesting.  They describe a "dual driver" system and the illustrations show it as something a little different than what the typical BA looks like.


I've got the GB+ and the new Beoplay E8 3rd gen.  Still comparing and contrasting.  Sound is way better on the E83 IMO, but the GB+ are very solid.  E83 have a wider soundstage which I usually prefer.  That said, the GB+ do sound better than the APP with a wider soundstage.  If you have an iPhone like me, the GB+ touch controls and ambient sound FINALLY work great.  Same for the E83.  Both have Qi and great battery life.  E83 fits me much better than past gen.  GB+ fit great too with a smaller footprint.  I may wind up keeping both.  Tough call at this moment.  Both are better than the Cleer Ally Plus (this week) .  Do I miss them not having ANC?  Not at all.  I have the APP and the Sonys for that when needed.

This addiction is relentless.

I've included a few quick photos.


----------



## voicemaster

doboo57 said:


> Thanks a lot for this short description, it’s appreciated.
> I’m not a basshead anyway (I prefer a more neutral and balanced sound).
> So, can you tell a bit how does the O7 sounds in terms of treble? I’m a bit concerned since I’m a bit treble-sensitive (especially sibilance)…
> And how does it sounds vs the Samsung Galaxy Buds?


The treble is airy but hardly ever sibilance. The mifo07 has the best mid that I have ever heard so far. If you ever heard a good pair of bookshelf speaker, it sounded like that. It's not like the mifo07 doesn't have bass, but you won't get those rumble from typical tws instead you get a tight and detailed bass.
Samsung sounds thin compared to mifo07 especially the mid.


----------



## Luhar

Have you guys seen this?
https://www.adv-sound.com/products/m5-tws-custom


----------



## doboo57

voicemaster said:


> The treble is airy but hardly ever sibilance. The mifo07 has the best mid that I have ever heard so far. If you ever heard a good pair of bookshelf speaker, it sounded like that. It's not like the mifo07 doesn't have bass, but you won't get those rumble from typical tws instead you get a tight and detailed bass.
> Samsung sounds thin compared to mifo07 especially the mid.



Thanks a lot!


----------



## jant71

Luhar said:


> Have you guys seen this?
> https://www.adv-sound.com/products/m5-tws-custom



But what is the point really? A custom w/o ambient makes little sense. You might get better fit and added isolation but that would make you have to take them out w/o some kind of hear through. Guess they might sound a little better being custom but seems still the same driver that is said to be just a step above the model X+. That worth $500?, no ANC or ambient, 8 hours, very good but perhaps not actually great SQ. You have to charge via a cable like this...



No IPX rating of course. Not seeing the draw unless they are flat out the best things for sound by far.


----------



## Luhar

jant71 said:


> But what is the point really? A custom w/o ambient makes little sense. You might get better fit and added isolation but that would make you have to take them out w/o some kind of hear through. Guess they might sound a little better being custom but seems still the same driver that is said to be just a step above the model X+. That worth $500?, no ANC or ambient, 8 hours, very good but perhaps not actually great SQ. You have to charge via a cable like this...
> 
> No IPX rating of course. Not seeing the draw unless they are flat out the best things for sound by far.


Agree mostly, I'd be interested in reading the reviews before pulling the trigger for something like this. 

Very interesting concept though, I guess it was only a matter of time before customs started to appear in wireless spectrum.


----------



## reedoo

Just received my FIIL T1X. only 30 minutes in and I’m impressed. I’d like different tips though, preferably foam. Any idea what size Comply fit these?


----------



## FYLegend

LordToneeus said:


> Just got my Aufo's today, and I must say... they don't sound... Aufo to me.  Very clear, balanced sound.  Definitely not bass-cannons, but neither are they muddy in the slightest.  These are also some of the slimmest profile TWS I've used - remind me of the Bomaker Sifi's in depth of fit.  I might very well be able to sleep with these in.
> 
> Transparency mode is a joke.  Oh, you can hear everything around you crystal clear, but it guts the volume of whatever is playing so much as to be all but useless.
> 
> I'm happy with this purchase given the Lightning Deal + the $10 coupon on Amazon.  As long as they're truly IPX7 - which means I should be able to shower with them - they'll definitely see a lot of use from me.


Any distortion? I'm getting a nasty buzzing with the intro of Magic by Coldplay among many other tracks. It often happens on the right bud but sometimes switches around. I also noticed it gets worse when the buds get stuck on the magnet of the charging case so my unit probably has bad shielding. If it wasn't for getting a dud I would recommend them.

I then bought a Muzili EA10... SBC only, dark, mid-bassy sound, fake USB-C port (Type-A charging only), and distortion at high volumes unless I turn off volume sync control and bring it down. Considering returning these...

I've been considering the GRDE T11 but then a user told me they tried two units which both had flipped stereo channels. I also see an ambiguous YouTube video using a GaiaControl app to upgrade the firmware to fix this issue...
https://www.amazon.ca/gp/product/B07ZD82MFL/ref=ox_sc_saved_title_1?smid=A29BZ6JHE6B7A5&psc=1


----------



## C_Lindbergh

Luhar said:


> Have you guys seen this?
> https://www.adv-sound.com/products/m5-tws-custom



Not even a case... No ty. 

Even though Custom IEMS TWS are a cool concept... But at the same time I really want good transparency mode and good call quality.


----------



## reedoo

FYLegend said:


> Any distortion? I'm getting a nasty buzzing with the intro of Magic by Coldplay among many other tracks. It often happens on the right bud but sometimes switches around. I also noticed it gets worse when the buds get stuck on the magnet of the charging case so my unit probably has bad shielding. If it wasn't for getting a dud I would recommend them.
> 
> I then bought a Muzili EA10... SBC only, dark, mid-bassy sound, fake USB-C port (Type-A charging only), and distortion at high volumes unless I turn off volume sync control and bring it down. Considering returning these...
> 
> ...


I need to get some hours on them before I pass judgement but a first pass says no distortion to speak of. I listen at low to mid volumes. Expect them to get smoother.


----------



## chinmie

Luhar said:


> Have you guys seen this?
> https://www.adv-sound.com/products/m5-tws-custom



might as well use a CIEM with BT adapters like the TM2 or BT20S


----------



## vaaccess

reedoo said:


> Just received my FIIL T1X. only 30 minutes in and I’m impressed. I’d like different tips though, preferably foam. Any idea what size Comply fit these?



Any driver flex in the left ear bud?

if not, where did you get them?


----------



## AudioNoob

Did anybody get the Anc aukey or the mpows yet?


----------



## reedoo

vaaccess said:


> Any driver flex in the left ear bud?
> 
> if not, where did you get them?



I got mine from Amazon. The seller was funwashow-us. Not sure about driver flex. What would I hear? The only thing I don’t like so far are the tips.


----------



## vaaccess

reedoo said:


> I got mine from Amazon. The seller was funwashow-us. Not sure about driver flex. What would I hear? The only thing I don’t like so far are the tips.



For me, at first I thought it was the supplied tips that created a crackling noise when I moved my jaw. But then got foam tips and discovered it was the driver flexing and creating noise. Primarily in the left ear. Loved them otherwise but the driver flex noise was bad unless I was absolutely still.


----------



## voicemaster

reedoo said:


> Just received my FIIL T1X. only 30 minutes in and I’m impressed. I’d like different tips though, preferably foam. Any idea what size Comply fit these?


You need to cut the foam tips by 2-3mm in order to fit the case.


----------



## assassin10000

reedoo said:


> Just received my FIIL T1X. only 30 minutes in and I’m impressed. I’d like different tips though, preferably foam. Any idea what size Comply fit these?



What do the stems look like? 



voicemaster said:


> You need to cut the foam tips by 2-3mm in order to fit the case.



Mikodiso and anjirui have shorter foams now, specifically for TWS with smooth bores.

Misodiko and Ikko TWS foams also for those stems with a lipped design.


----------



## Hung Tuan

BigZ12 said:


> I got my Lypertek Tevi replacement today. They agreed to replace the ones that were ruined by resetting them after the beta upgrade.
> Free DHL Express from Hong Kong (sent Thurday, got them today) AND to my surprise: These are updated with the same sound signature as the beta upgrade, and with working app connection. They also have the new packaging as described on Lyperteks home page, so it proves I got the latest version.
> I'm sooo pleased!  It can't get better than this. They sound fantastic straight out of the box with the standard silicone tips. (M)



Does your Tevi has the square bracket on the Lypetek term? The new one should not have the square bracket.

I had to perform upgrade for my Tevi but my Tevi does not have issue with factory reset...

Original tip works best with this pair. The second one should be Sony Hybrid, which offer a bit more comfort, warmness but at the expense of a bit clarity loss. Spinfits are bad for them in general because their default sound bore is slightly bigger.


----------



## caprimulgus (Feb 18, 2020)

Bhelpoori said:


> As I said previously, if you're looking for audio/video latency that's good for video editing or highly reactive gaming then we're still way off even if you manage to get an AptX-LL with TWS Plus headphone with a device that supports both.



Yeah cool. And as I said previously, I am happy with AptX-LL. I already own and use AptX-LL devices (including a transmitter, a receiver, a headphone and an IEM), and I am happy with AptX-LL.

I personally would be happy with a TWS that supports TWS Plus and AptX-LL.

Did I mention that I am happy with AptX-LL? 

Appreciate you responding to my questions, and I'm not having a go at you (just poking fun) - but I did already say that I am happy with the latency performance of AptX-LL, ok?


----------



## FYLegend

reedoo said:


> I need to get some hours on them before I pass judgement but a first pass says no distortion to speak of. I listen at low to mid volumes. Expect them to get smoother.


Just curious which colour you got? Mine is Navy Blue which they seem to have take off of the listings for now...


----------



## BubbleSoap

to the Fiil T1X owners:
How long do they last you when listening to music with one full change?


----------



## Bhelpoori

caprimulgus said:


> Yeah cool. And as I said previously, I am happy with AptX-LL. I already own and use AptX-LL devices (including a transmitter, a receiver, a headphone and an IEM), and I am happy with AptX-LL.
> 
> I personally would be happy with a TWS that supports TWS Plus and AptX-LL.
> 
> ...


Glad you're happy with AptX-LL and yes I did gather you were just poklng fun...


----------



## clerkpalmer

Has 1more fixed the audio profile over ANC yet? I read a few reports on YouTube etc that they were going to tone down the bass via a software update. I'd lume to give then another run if fixed.


----------



## Mouseman

BubbleSoap said:


> to the Fiil T1X owners:
> How long do they last you when listening to music with one full change?


I haven't had a timer on, but I think I've had them go about 6-7 hours straight. I usually pop them in the case at lunchtime, they run the whole day that way. If you drop them in for 10 minutes when you are on a phone call or something in the office, you should be able to go the whole (work) day.


----------



## BigZ12 (Feb 19, 2020)

Hung Tuan said:


> Does your Tevi has the square bracket on the Lypetek term? The new one should not have the square bracket.


Where?

Edit: I got it now. 
From upgrade instructions: "Once finishing upgrading for both sides, the Bluetooth Name will be changed from [LYPERTEK] TEVI - L/R to LYPERTEK TEVI - L/R. That means TEVI can be used with App."

My new ones are without brackets, and have this packaging:


----------



## DigDub

Spot the difference.


----------



## Kvarkmeister

They are selling the FIIL T1X for 0$? What? I'm not in the states so I no way I'm testing this out, but I did see some shipping costs.

See the link here.

Some proof if they change this:


----------



## vaaccess

Kvarkmeister said:


> They are selling the FIIL T1X for 0$? What? I'm not in the states so I no way I'm testing this out, but I did see some shipping costs.
> 
> See the link here.
> 
> Some proof if they change this:



Wild. Since I returned mine, I decided to try them again for $8 shipped. I wonder if they’ll cancel my order...


----------



## Kvarkmeister

vaaccess said:


> Wild. Since I returned mine, I decided to try them again for $8 shipped. I wonder if they’ll cancel my order...


See how it works out, haha!


----------



## Mouseman

Kvarkmeister said:


> They are selling the FIIL T1X for 0$? What? I'm not in the states so I no way I'm testing this out, but I did see some shipping costs.
> 
> See the link here.
> 
> Some proof if they change this:


...And it's gone. Sold out.


----------



## GloriousGenMacArthur

Mouseman said:


> ...And it's gone. Sold out.


Would have tried for that price!


----------



## LordToneeus

FYLegend said:


> Any distortion? I'm getting a nasty buzzing with the intro of Magic by Coldplay among many other tracks. It often happens on the right bud but sometimes switches around. I also noticed it gets worse when the buds get stuck on the magnet of the charging case so my unit probably has bad shielding. If it wasn't for getting a dud I would recommend them.
> 
> I then bought a Muzili EA10... SBC only, dark, mid-bassy sound, fake USB-C port (Type-A charging only), and distortion at high volumes unless I turn off volume sync control and bring it down. Considering returning these...
> 
> ...


No distortion here.  I've enjoyed my time with them so far.


----------



## GeeD

clerkpalmer said:


> Has 1more fixed the audio profile over ANC yet? I read a few reports on YouTube etc that they were going to tone down the bass via a software update. I'd lume to give then another run if fixed.


What audio profile over ANC?  The one about the boost in base that was mentioned on youtube? 

I've said this before quite a few pages back but I sat in a quiet room, and used the App to switch directly between Off and Full ANC for an hour and other than ANC tuning in for a second, could not find any change in sound profile what so ever.  Then I updated the firmware and still no difference.  Maybe I got a faulty pair


----------



## clerkpalmer

GeeD said:


> What audio profile over ANC?  The one about the boost in base that was mentioned on youtube?
> 
> I've said this before quite a few pages back but I sat in a quiet room, and used the App to switch directly between Off and Full ANC for an hour and other than ANC tuning in for a second, could not find any change in sound profile what so ever.  Then I updated the firmware and still no difference.  Maybe I got a faulty pair


Yeah, definitely something wrong with your pair or my pair if you could not tell a difference in bass boost with ANC on versus off.  I don't portend to have a very good ear but that was a night and day difference.  In the youtube reviews, it was mentioned a firmware fix was coming to lower the bass with ANC on.  Was wondering if it every happened.


----------



## vaaccess

vaaccess said:


> Wild. Since I returned mine, I decided to try them again for $8 shipped. I wonder if they’ll cancel my order...



btw. I provided a reasonable review based on my experience and driver flex I had.

they recently emailed me and said, “We have already replaced to another manufacturer to ensure the better quality and service according to your review.”

wondering if they were dumping stock in advance of upgraded/improved devices...???

maybe I’ll get lucky and get a pair that doesn’t have the left bud driver flex even if they are old stock. 

that said, given their sound quality if they address   the driver flex production issue, the 1TX will be a serious contender for those that want a modern sound profile. I still preferred the Mifo O7’s flat profile with non-bleeding bass, but the 1TX for its price is worthy of consideration if the driver flex is resolved.


----------



## chinmie

DigDub said:


> Spot the difference.



easy! the left with red LED is the plus 
if only comparing the sound, is it a significant difference upgrade?


----------



## DigDub

chinmie said:


> easy! the left with red LED is the plus
> if only comparing the sound, is it a significant difference upgrade?


I don't feel there's a significant difference in sound signature. The ambience mode is greatly improved though, and the ability to use the edge for volume control is useful.


----------



## erockg (Feb 19, 2020)

chinmie said:


> easy! the left with red LED is the plus
> if only comparing the sound, is it a significant difference upgrade?


Not significant.  I'm returning mine.  Maybe I'll revisit when there's a sale.  Decided to keep the Beoplay E8 3rd Gen instead.  They sound so much better IMO.  Fuller, better bass response, nicer package.  Sure, less battery (7 vs 11), but they charge pretty quick and last me all day.  Have both here at work and always grab the B&O's.


----------



## chinmie

DigDub said:


> I don't feel there's a significant difference in sound signature. The ambience mode is greatly improved though, and the ability to use the edge for volume control is useful.





erockg said:


> Not significant.  I'm returning mine.  Maybe I'll revisit when there's a sale.  Decided to keep the Beoplay E8 3rd Gen instead.  They sound so much better IMO.  Fuller, better bass response, nicer package.  Sure, less battery (7 vs 11), but they charge pretty quick and last me all day.  Have both here at work and always grab the B&O's.



thanks! it seems i made the right choice to skip this one ..not because it's not great (i personally think it's one of the most complete and bang for the buck purchase now), but because i already have a bunch of tight and trusty crews in my small boat.


----------



## harpdoc

I've had the new Galaxy Buds+ for a couple of days. Having mixed feelings about them. I've never considered myself a bass-head, but I was struck by how lacking in bass they are. Put on some Comply tips, which usually clears that up, but not so much with these. I find the sound very clear, lots of details, but "clinical" sounding, without much warmth. I seem to go for a warmer sound; my favorite wired in-ears are Triple-Fi 100's, and I also like the Blon BL03. Not thrilled with any of the 5 EQ presets on the Buds+. Been playing around with a different EQ app and I'm getting closer to a sound that I like. Previous pair of TWS buds were Elite 65t, which I quite enjoyed without any EQ. I wonder if I should return these to Amazon and try the 75t? I really want a pair that has an ambient/pass-through sound setting, which makes options rather limiting. I use these while backcountry skiing and hiking, so I'm not sure that the Sony's would be appropriate. Thought about Master & Dynamic MW07 Plus, but I don't want to spend $300. Any thoughts?

Other thoughts on the Buds+: I like the many features, but I'm finding the touch controls frustratingly over-sensitive. I can't put them in without activating something. I've tried three different foam tips and the case won't stay closed with any of them. Using a rubber band, which is mighty cheesy looking. I've got some Symbios on order. I find the Buds+ quite comfortable. I like the various ambient mode settings and think it sounds good, but wind noise is a huge problem when it's activated, which defeats the purpose when I'm using them outdoors and want to have some situational awareness.


----------



## DigDub

The buds+ do sound a tad clinical. Adding a bit of midbass makes the sound more realistic, which is what I did with the built-in equalizer on my Samsung s10 phone.


----------



## erockg

harpdoc said:


> I've had the new Galaxy Buds+ for a couple of days. Having mixed feelings about them. I've never considered myself a bass-head, but I was struck by how lacking in bass they are. Put on some Comply tips, which usually clears that up, but not so much with these. I find the sound very clear, lots of details, but "clinical" sounding, without much warmth. I seem to go for a warmer sound; my favorite wired in-ears are Triple-Fi 100's, and I also like the Blon BL03. Not thrilled with any of the 5 EQ presets on the Buds+. Been playing around with a different EQ app and I'm getting closer to a sound that I like. Previous pair of TWS buds were Elite 65t, which I quite enjoyed without any EQ. I wonder if I should return these to Amazon and try the 75t? I really want a pair that has an ambient/pass-through sound setting, which makes options rather limiting. I use these while backcountry skiing and hiking, so I'm not sure that the Sony's would be appropriate. Thought about Master & Dynamic MW07 Plus, but I don't want to spend $300. Any thoughts?
> 
> Other thoughts on the Buds+: I like the many features, but I'm finding the touch controls frustratingly over-sensitive. I can't put them in without activating something. I've tried three different foam tips and the case won't stay closed with any of them. Using a rubber band, which is mighty cheesy looking. I've got some Symbios on order. I find the Buds+ quite comfortable. I like the various ambient mode settings and think it sounds good, but wind noise is a huge problem when it's activated, which defeats the purpose when I'm using them outdoors and want to have some situational awareness.


Jabra 75t are definitely better than the 65t for form factor alone (smaller) and passthrough is still great.  They def have more bass than the GB+.  I think they do sound better than the GB+.  I had them but preferred others.  MW07 Plus are great, but ANC is very weak and I couldn't get a good fit not to mention there is sound bleed -- Everyone around me at work could hear my music.  But the sound is up there with the MTW and B&O's.  The Sonys are great in an office/home setting, but outdoors skiiing, I'd beware.  The fit is wonky for some, myself included.  Passthough is a must for me.  Great sound too.


----------



## chinmie

harpdoc said:


> I've had the new Galaxy Buds+ for a couple of days. Having mixed feelings about them. I've never considered myself a bass-head, but I was struck by how lacking in bass they are. Put on some Comply tips, which usually clears that up, but not so much with these. I find the sound very clear, lots of details, but "clinical" sounding, without much warmth. I seem to go for a warmer sound; my favorite wired in-ears are Triple-Fi 100's, and I also like the Blon BL03. Not thrilled with any of the 5 EQ presets on the Buds+. Been playing around with a different EQ app and I'm getting closer to a sound that I like. Previous pair of TWS buds were Elite 65t, which I quite enjoyed without any EQ. I wonder if I should return these to Amazon and try the 75t? I really want a pair that has an ambient/pass-through sound setting, which makes options rather limiting. I use these while backcountry skiing and hiking, so I'm not sure that the Sony's would be appropriate. Thought about Master & Dynamic MW07 Plus, but I don't want to spend $300. Any thoughts?
> 
> Other thoughts on the Buds+: I like the many features, but I'm finding the touch controls frustratingly over-sensitive. I can't put them in without activating something. I've tried three different foam tips and the case won't stay closed with any of them. Using a rubber band, which is mighty cheesy looking. I've got some Symbios on order. I find the Buds+ quite comfortable. I like the various ambient mode settings and think it sounds good, but wind noise is a huge problem when it's activated, which defeats the purpose when I'm using them outdoors and want to have some situational awareness.



sadly the GBuds case can only fit short eartips.. Symbios would not fit properly in the case. 
i personally use this


i forgot where i got this, but if I'm not mistaken it came from an old Samsung earphones that came with the phone. 

any ambient mode TWS that uses mic to feed in outside sound would potentially produce wind noise..maybe you can try experiment by taping the mic with small medical tape, or use the buds under a beanie/buff? or maybe an open TWS type like the Sabbat X12, Airpods, would be a better option if you need ambient awareness


----------



## voicemaster

BubbleSoap said:


> to the Fiil T1X owners:
> How long do they last you when listening to music with one full change?


5-7 hours depending on volume.


----------



## BubbleSoap

voicemaster said:


> 5-7 hours depending on volume.



thank you


----------



## cresny

erockg said:


> The Sonys are great in an office/home setting, but outdoors skiiing, I'd beware.  The fit is wonky for some, myself included.  Passthough is a must for me.  Great sound too.



Reading between the lines here, it seems like the Clear Ally Plus have already been thrown to the wayside? I have my eye on them because they check all the boxes for me regarding features (ANC) and fit, but now I'm wondering if I should wait a little longer.


----------



## erockg

cresny said:


> Reading between the lines here, it seems like the Clear Ally Plus have already been thrown to the wayside? I have my eye on them because they check all the boxes for me regarding features (ANC) and fit, but now I'm wondering if I should wait a little longer.



They are definitely great. They sound amazing, although I did have a few problems with distortion on some of my older CD rips. I didn’t hear the same distortion with the Sony‘s, AirPod pros, B&O and others. The ANC is great but not as strong as the Sonys or the AirPods. For me, it was the fit. I couldn’t get them to fit well because they didn’t sit deep enough in my ears like some of the other options I own. But it sounds like not many people are having that issue at all.  If you can get them from Amazon, try them out because the return policy for Amazon prime is amazing.


----------



## harpdoc

I was going to buy the Ally Plus, but they are sold out everywhere. I talked to a guy at a website that sells them and he said that, because of Coronavirus, we cannot expect them anytime soon and he did not know when they would be restocked.


----------



## reedoo

FYLegend said:


> Just curious which colour you got? Mine is Navy Blue which they seem to have take off of the listings for now...


Black was the only color available


----------



## Vilssoni

FIIL T1X, Creative outliers, Bomakers or 1more in terms of sound quality?


----------



## actorlife (Feb 20, 2020)

Hi guys!!! Newer spaceship has arrived from soundmagic:
https://www.techradar.com/reviews/soundmagic-tws50-true-wireless-in-ear-headphones
Anyone try it yet?


----------



## Trzystatrzy

Shanling MTW100 BA - is it level of Vsonic GR07? Any compare?


----------



## d3myz

Got a wild hair and decided to bore out my Ikko's a little with my dremel. I'm very pleased with the result.


----------



## GeeD (Feb 20, 2020)

clerkpalmer said:


> Yeah, definitely something wrong with your pair or my pair if you could not tell a difference in bass boost with ANC on versus off. I don't portend to have a very good ear but that was a night and day difference. In the youtube reviews, it was mentioned a firmware fix was coming to lower the bass with ANC on. Was wondering if it every happened.


Well I'm not saying it is fake news or anything but I do have a reasonable ear (actually most of us should be reasonably ok with bass frequencies) and seriously, I had/have no difference between sat concentrating in a quiet room full ANC, non, full ANC, non, full ANC, non, full ANC etc for 20 or so different tracks of blues through electronic, through 60s rock and anything else in my eclectic collection.

I can't actually remember the original firmware (v0.03.something) but mine did do an update to v0.03.31  Before and after ...I have no idea what folks are on about??  Mine came direct from the 1More shop on AliX.

Is this the infamous Internet of everyone complains but those without a problem never speak up??  Pinch of salt me thinks.

EDIT: oh, and just to be clear, the sound profile (for me anyway) is excellent!


----------



## Luke Skywalker

georgelai57 said:


> https://www.sony.com.sg/electronics/truly-wireless/wf-h800
> Available soon in Singapore


Thanks!  So weird that they Sony isn’t putting LDAC in earbuds


----------



## Luke Skywalker

chinmie said:


> might as well use a CIEM with BT adapters like the TM2 or BT20S


Ya I was gonna say the same thing. I’ve been listening to JH Lola’s with a Bluetooth cable and it sounds pretty sweet. I have a tough time distinguishing the sound difference between AAC and Aptx (not HD)


----------



## Luke Skywalker (Feb 28, 2020)

Wondering if anyone else has updated the firmware on the NUARL n6 Pro’s?  I can put mine in firmware update and the firmware downloads just fine to 100% but then I get an error “oem validation failed footer”

tried left and right buds

*edit*... Man, I still can't figure out how to update the firmware on the N6's.  Guess I'll reach out to their support


----------



## viralbug (Feb 20, 2020)

Hey folks!
I'm looking for my first TWE and I've gone through many pages in this thread, which has just confused me more. 
I'm looking for the following things in order of preference: Sound quality, USB-c, Ambient sound, ANC. ANC isn't something that is necessary, especially if passive isolation is good enough, but it's a great plus to have. Wireless charging is a bonus too. I do not care about touch controls. I'm looking to keep things under $150, but willing to go upto 200 or higher if the sound quality is great. I'll be using it with an iphone 11.

I like my sound warm and fun with a good balance across frequencies. A slight boost in the bass and even mids is great. I don't like V shaped sound so the mids should atleast be average. 

Atter looking at so many options I'm half assed towards the APP, though its a bit pricey. But there are probably others that sound better and are cheaper. How do Galaxy Buds+ , Shanling MTW100 fare in comparison with SQ? Im afraid the Shanling may be too bright, not so sure about the GBuds+. The Cleer Allys seem to be OOS.

Looking forward to your suggestions and sorry for the long post.


----------



## chinmie

viralbug said:


> Hey folks!
> I'm looking for my first TWE and I've gone through many pages in this thread, which has just confused me more.
> I'm looking for the following things in order of preference: Sound quality, USB-c, Ambient sound, ANC. ANC isn't something that is necessary, especially if passive isolation is good enough, but it's a great plus to have. Wireless charging is a bonus too. I do not care about touch controls. I'm looking to keep things under $150, but willing to go upto 200 or higher if the sound quality is great. I'll be using it with an iphone 11.
> 
> ...



The strongest candidate for your criteria now might be the Gbud+
Mind you i haven't listened to it personally, and i would also suggest you find a Samsung store that have a demo unit to test it. I personally have the older Gbuds, and i really love it. aside from the call quality, i find it a great experience as a whole.


----------



## Caipirina (Feb 21, 2020)

Got myself a new little player to mainly use with my TWS. The TempoTec V1A (and I am seeing that the 'without analog' version, the V1 is currently at an all time low over at AliEx)
So far I am quite impressed and it is kinda fun that it let's me toggle between AptX and SBC (when I am using AptX TWS, if they are SBC only, the player crashes) and so I can really hear / a-b the difference and this makes me appreciate my few AptX buds even more (1More, Spunky Beats, KZ 10, Ytom W1 and the Whizzer B6) Trying to find out if any of my other TWS are secretly AptX.
Wondering if I should get those TRN T200, hybrid, AptX for 28$ .. scarbir's review is a bit inconclusive on this one, can't put my finger on what he does not like on them
What's your favorite AptX bud? Might also be another reason to save up for the Sony XF1000xm3   (Edit: while AptX.com claims the wf1000mx3 are supported, pretty much every other source, incl Sony says they do NOT have AptX. Does this mean that they use the 3020 chip but the codec is not activated?)


----------



## thimantha

Has anybody tried the SoundPEATS TrueDot? https://www.scarbir.com/tws/soundpeats-truedot-review

I like the understated looks of the earbuds and the case.


----------



## thimantha

Caipirina said:


> What's your favorite AptX bud?



Haylou GT1 Plus. Hands down the best sounding budget AptX TWS I've ever had. I like the SQ of this better than the Spunky Beats.


----------



## viralbug

chinmie said:


> The strongest candidate for your criteria now might be the Gbud+
> Mind you i haven't listened to it personally, and i would also suggest you find a Samsung store that have a demo unit to test it. I personally have the older Gbuds, and i really love it. aside from the call quality, i find it a great experience as a whole.


Yeah reviews so far are pretty positive. Unfortunately cant find it somewhere to try it out. They launch a couple of weeks later where I live.


----------



## Caipirina (Feb 21, 2020)

thimantha said:


> Haylou GT1 Plus. Hands down the best sounding budget AptX TWS I've ever had. I like the SQ of this better than the Spunky Beats.


Thanks for pointing that one out! Funny how they don’t show up when searching for ‘AptX tws’ on AE. I love my regular GT1 for their pocketability and fit ... will put on wishlist and wait for next sale 

Just looking around and finding this review / compare on all the Haylou and those photos look very familiar, I wonder if they got @Bartig 's permission to use them


----------



## X-Nemesis

Have the Fiil T1X's received any firmware updates yet?


----------



## chinmie

Caipirina said:


> while AptX.com claims the wf1000mx3 are supported, pretty much every other source, incl Sony says they do NOT have AptX. Does this mean that they use the 3020 chip but the codec is not activated?



the WF XM3 doesn't use qualcomm, but instead using Airoha chipset 

https://kknews.cc/digital/bm8reqm.amp


----------



## d3myz

X-Nemesis said:


> Have the Fiil T1X's received any firmware updates yet?


I haven't seen any. and i've uninstalled/reinstalled my app several times.


----------



## david8613

thimantha said:


> Haylou GT1 Plus. Hands down the best sounding budget AptX TWS I've ever had. I like the SQ of this better than the Spunky Beats.




how do these sound compared to anbes 359, tranya t3 and b530. I love these budget tw, if the haylou is better I might bite!


----------



## AudioNoob

I still like the sound quality of my Jeet Air Plus (in Pure Audio mode through the app) with the full range single BA drivers. The fit and finish is great at the price too, so it the battery life, and they take any custom tips once you decapitate one of the included tips that are one piece covers extending over the body. Delay is non-existent with the latest update. I just wish they had a conventional button or touch interface rather than the bizarro single function smack/vibration detection.


----------



## typhoon838

What's new in the world of budget/ChiFi TWS? 

Still haven't found anything to dethrone my Anbes 359, even though they've started glitching out when trying to pair to each other/to a phone, so I can't use them anymore. Their bass is just a cut above anything else I've ever tried, including the SSK with identical tips. Weird. Gimme suggestions for anything with similar/more bass than the Anbes, while keeping at least some of that beautiful clarity it has.


----------



## Blueshound24

I haven't been on this thread for a while, but has anybody tried the tws50? This review sounds positive. 

https://www.techradar.com/reviews/soundmagic-tws50-true-wireless-in-ear-headphones


----------



## hifi80sman

Anyone try the Shanling MTW100 *V2*?

https://www.amazon.com/Shanling-Wireless-Earphone-Bluetooth-Waterproof/dp/B0843T4RQK/


----------



## Luke Skywalker (Feb 23, 2020)

Caipirina said:


> Got myself a new little player to mainly use with my TWS. The TempoTec V1A (and I am seeing that the 'without analog' version, the V1 is currently at an all time low over at AliEx)
> So far I am quite impressed and it is kinda fun that it let's me toggle between AptX and SBC (when I am using AptX TWS, if they are SBC only, the player crashes) and so I can really hear / a-b the difference and this makes me appreciate my few AptX buds even more (1More, Spunky Beats, KZ 10, Ytom W1 and the Whizzer B6) Trying to find out if any of my other TWS are secretly AptX.
> Wondering if I should get those TRN T200, hybrid, AptX for 28$ .. scarbir's review is a bit inconclusive on this one, can't put my finger on what he does not like on them
> What's your favorite AptX bud? Might also be another reason to save up for the Sony XF1000xm3   (Edit: while AptX.com claims the wf1000mx3 are supported, pretty much every other source, incl Sony says they do NOT have AptX. Does this mean that they use the 3020 chip but the codec is not activated?)


You might dig the Nuarl N6 Pro... I've paired them with my HiBy R6 Pro (Aptx) and with my iPhone AAC and honestly, I have a tough time discerning the difference when playing Tidal and Qobuz tracks

But they're pretty sweet...  Much nicer sound that my Jabra 65's, although not up there with my JH Lola's and Audeze LCD-2's of course.  Great for running too if you're into that


----------



## hifi80sman

Luke Skywalker said:


> You might dig the Nuarl N6 Pro... I've paired them with my HiBy R6 Pro and with my iPhone AAC and honestly, I have a tough time discerning the difference when playing Tidal and Qobuz tracks
> 
> But they're pretty sweet...  Much nicer sound that my Jabra 65's, although not up there with my JH Lola's and Audeze LCD-2's of course.  Great for running too if you're into that


What?!  The Nural N6 Pro is not up there with the Audeze LCD-2?!  Madness!


----------



## 13gsc13

Just got my FIIL T1X and only listened for 10 minutes as I have to go Curling but they sound really good
I’ll give it a good listen later tonight


----------



## cwill (Feb 21, 2020)

typhoon838 said:


> What's new in the world of budget/ChiFi TWS?
> 
> Still haven't found anything to dethrone my Anbes 359, even though they've started glitching out when trying to pair to each other/to a phone, so I can't use them anymore. Their bass is just a cut above anything else I've ever tried, including the SSK with identical tips. Weird. Gimme suggestions for anything with similar/more bass than the Anbes, while keeping at least some of that beautiful clarity it has.


This is odd. My Kisrall R18's are supposed to be identical to the 359's and they are severely lacking in bass (almost non-existant). My SSK on the other hand are sub-bass monsters to me, and this should be the case due to the 10mm drivers that no other UFO buds have had so far.


----------



## erockg

Anyone else have sound leakage using their Sony WF-1000xm3?  Upon a closer look, I can see bass ports on the side of the stalks that go into my ears.  Even though I can't hear anyone around me with ANC on at work, they all say they can hear my music!


----------



## chinmie

erockg said:


> Anyone else have sound leakage using their Sony WF-1000xm3?  Upon a closer look, I can see bass ports on the side of the stalks that go into my ears.  Even though I can't hear anyone around me with ANC on at work, they all say they can hear my music!



that's not the bass ports, but the inside microphone for the ANC


----------



## DigDub

I took the m&d 07 go out today to have another listen again. I had not used it for a few weeks as it sounded very sibilant. Strangely, the sibilance is now very well controlled. The sound quality is up there with the Nuarl N6 Pro now.


----------



## Caipirina

Luke Skywalker said:


> You might dig the Nuarl N6 Pro... I've paired them with my HiBy R6 Pro and with my iPhone AAC and honestly, I have a tough time discerning the difference when playing Tidal and Qobuz tracks
> 
> But they're pretty sweet...  Much nicer sound that my Jabra 65's, although not up there with my JH Lola's and Audeze LCD-2's of course.  Great for running too if you're into that


I tried the Nuarl back in December and could not get a great fit (then again, Japanese department store, and even though some have a box of Extra tips around to even let you play with that, I that one case I only had that one pair of tips) ... might need to give them a try again when I get a chance.


----------



## erockg

chinmie said:


> that's not the bass ports, but the inside microphone for the ANC


You sure?  I thought the ANC mic was on the outside near the Sony logo?  If I cover the silicone tips with my finger I can still hear music, but if I cover the tips and then the vents on the stalks that go into my ears, then then music is silent.  When they are in my ears, the ports on the stalks are exposed so everyone hears my music.


----------



## chinmie

erockg said:


> You sure?  I thought the ANC mic was on the outside near the Sony logo?  If I cover the silicone tips with my finger I can still hear music, but if I cover the tips and then the vents on the stalks that go into my ears, then then music is silent.  When they are in my ears, the ports on the stalks are exposed so everyone hears my music.






this is from what i read on teardown article here
https://hifigo.com/blogs/tws/deep-dive-teardown-of-true-wireless-earbuds-sony-wf-1000xm3-hifigo

i also thought that long groove on the stem to be bass ports, but it seems to be a mic array for ANC. my other ANC TWS (Airsun X8) which was advertised having outward and inward ANC mics also have the same groove, so i guess it checks out 

i haven't tested covering it like you did, but if you said by covering it the music is blocked too, maybe it also works dual purpose as a vent?


----------



## erockg

chinmie said:


> this is from what i read on teardown article here
> https://hifigo.com/blogs/tws/deep-dive-teardown-of-true-wireless-earbuds-sony-wf-1000xm3-hifigo
> 
> i also thought that long groove on the stem to be bass ports, but it seems to be a mic array for ANC. my other ANC TWS (Airsun X8) which was advertised having outward and inward ANC mics also have the same groove, so i guess it checks out
> ...


Thanks for this.  I appreciate it.  Yes, it must be for both.  It definitely blocks music.  Such a bummer because now I feel like I’m disturbing folks in my office.  Ha ha!


----------



## RobinFood

Well I just tried the wf-1000xm3 on my usual weekend trip to the city. I've been using the ER4XR with small comply tips on the Radsone ES100 for the last almost 2 years to cut out the horribly loud noise of the train and car traffic.

I have to say, I've been tip rolling all week to find the best fit for the most isolation and fit, but even so the anc doesn't touch the level of isolation I get with the etymotics combo. I think it comes down to the weak passive isolation despite my best efforts.

The positive though is that they are extremely comfortable. The 2 hour ride with etymotics usually leaves my ears a little tender, but I feel like I could eat the Sonys forever. The ambient mode is also great, and I could talk to store cashiers perfectly without taking out my earphones.

Sound wise they are also amazing. Coming from the Nuarl NT01AX on APTx I wasn't expecting much from an SBC connection but the timber in the vocals is great. Bass is perfect and the eq works great adjusting it without making it sound weird. The highs are nice and sparkly. I prefer the balance of all the frequencies more than I did on the Nuarls, but for staging and imaging I feel that the Nuarls are much better. DSEE HX seems to help with separation and imaging though.


----------



## Pro-Jules

C_Lindbergh said:


> The QuietPoint ATH-ANC300TWs will last just 4.5 hours on a single charge.
> 
> What are they thinking, a mere 4.5 hours in 2020. No matter how good they sound (I doubt they are much better than other procuts in that price segment) that's simply unacceptable.




Is this the only set with AptX HD?


----------



## thimantha

david8613 said:


> how do these sound compared to anbes 359, tranya t3 and b530. I love these budget tw, if the haylou is better I might bite!



Haven't tried any of the Tranyas cause they unfortunately don't ship here. 

I don't have the Anbes 359, but I do have the Kissral R18. And the Haylou GT1 Plus sounds better than the Kissrals.


----------



## howdy

RobinFood said:


> Well I just tried the wf-1000xm3 on my usual weekend trip to the city. I've been using the ER4XR with small comply tips on the Radsone ES100 for the last almost 2 years to cut out the horribly loud noise of the train and car traffic.
> 
> I have to say, I've been tip rolling all week to find the best fit for the most isolation and fit, but even so the anc doesn't touch the level of isolation I get with the etymotics combo. I think it comes down to the weak passive isolation despite my best efforts.
> 
> ...



I use Spinfits for most of my TWS XM3s included, and it makes them seal better and stay in place better as well.


----------



## 13gsc13

After spending some time with the FIIL T1X I found that it’s just not smooth like my Senn MTW but for the price they’ll be good for what I need
once they burn in might suit me better
anyone know what foam tips would work with it 
I prefer foam 
thanks


----------



## voicemaster

13gsc13 said:


> After spending some time with the FIIL T1X I found that it’s just not smooth like my Senn MTW but for the price they’ll be good for what I need
> once they burn in might suit me better
> anyone know what foam tips would work with it
> I prefer foam
> thanks


I like this one 
Earphone Tips F FEYCH Premium Replacement Earbud Tips Memory Foam Earphone Tips Blocking Noise Foam Tips Suit for 4.5-6.3mm Nozzle in-Ear Earphones with Storage Box(Small, 6 Pairs, Black) https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07SJSTB44/ref=cm_sw_r_wa_apa_i_TlvuEb99KYA9S

Cut around 2-3mm from the bottom end.


----------



## hifi80sman

erockg said:


> Anyone else have sound leakage using their Sony WF-1000xm3?  Upon a closer look, I can see bass ports on the side of the stalks that go into my ears.  Even though I can't hear anyone around me with ANC on at work, they all say they can hear my music!


No, never experienced this.  How loud are you listening?!


----------



## SilverEars (Feb 22, 2020)

harpdoc said:


> I've had the new Galaxy Buds+ for a couple of days. Having mixed feelings about them. I've never considered myself a bass-head, but I was struck by how lacking in bass they are. Put on some Comply tips, which usually clears that up, but not so much with these. I find the sound very clear, lots of details, but "clinical" sounding, without much warmth. I seem to go for a warmer sound; my favorite wired in-ears are Triple-Fi 100's, and I also like the Blon BL03. Not thrilled with any of the 5 EQ presets on the Buds+. Been playing around with a different EQ app and I'm getting closer to a sound that I like. Previous pair of TWS buds were Elite 65t, which I quite enjoyed without any EQ. I wonder if I should return these to Amazon and try the 75t? I really want a pair that has an ambient/pass-through sound setting, which makes options rather limiting. I use these while backcountry skiing and hiking, so I'm not sure that the Sony's would be appropriate. Thought about Master & Dynamic MW07 Plus, but I don't want to spend $300. Any thoughts?
> 
> Other thoughts on the Buds+: I like the many features, but I'm finding the touch controls frustratingly over-sensitive. I can't put them in without activating something. I've tried three different foam tips and the case won't stay closed with any of them. Using a rubber band, which is mighty cheesy looking. I've got some Symbios on order. I find the Buds+ quite comfortable. I like the various ambient mode settings and think it sounds good, but wind noise is a huge problem when it's activated, which defeats the purpose when I'm using them outdoors and want to have some situational awareness.


I just got them as well as I was curious how it sounds with supposed Harman tuning.  I originally thought the clinicalness was caused by 3k, but it's actually somewhere in the  6-8k.  When I low-shelf that area down, the harshness reduces. Also, the stock tips are crap with narrow bore.  Try out different tips other than the stock tips, the bass response will improve, and generally the imaging.

I played around with EQ, and I notice the harshness doesn't drop with reduction of the 3k, so I tried around 6-8k, and I narrowed it down to 6k-7k.  This experience has me scratching my head.  I saw Crinacle's measurement, showing that response looks Harman like, but the measurement doesn't show any peaks around 6-8k.  Because if it sounds like this, I usually would see a peak.

I don't know if we can blame on Harman here, I think there's something more to it to this situation. Because usually people would blame the 3k (because that's the highest point they see on graph), but it doesn't seem to be that region, but in the lower treble.

Anway, USB Audio Player Pro's Tone Booster EQ is excellent.


----------



## RobinFood

howdy said:


> I use Spinfits for most of my TWS XM3s included, and it makes them seal better and stay in place better as well.



The only spinfit I have are the oval cp-350 eartips, and I love them, they are super comfortable and make the earphones sit super deep, but due to the oval shape and the extremely small size of the cap sometimes it doesn't want to seal right, like the oval is misaligned.

Have you tried the cp-360? What spinfits are you using?


----------



## erockg

hifi80sman said:


> No, never experienced this.  How loud are you listening?!


60% ish.   Depends on the music.


----------



## Cryu

Anyone know where to get the Nuarl N6 Pro's in Canada? Can't seem to find anything and don't really want to use a proxy.  Also any recommendations for anything in the $100-200 price range would be welcome. Just focusing on SQ and comfort, ambient would be great but not necessary. Excluding the L2P's though.


----------



## chinmie

so... not true multi point connection on the Gbud+? anyone has them can confirm? 
https://www.sammobile.com/news/galaxy-buds-plus-lack-multi-device-connection-samsung-backtracks/


----------



## brtalush

anyone tried: https://www.amazon.com/Mpow-Wirelee...r_1_3?keywords=mpow+anc&qid=1582420812&sr=8-3

*Mpow True Wireleess Earbuds ANC, Wireless Earbuds Touch Control Bluetooth 5.0, Earphone in-Ear with Active Noise Cancellation, Waterproof IPX6, 27 Hrs Playtime with Charging Case, Quick Charge Type-C*

They are $50 now with $15 coupon.


----------



## howdy

RobinFood said:


> The only spinfit I have are the oval cp-350 eartips, and I love them, they are super comfortable and make the earphones sit super deep, but due to the oval shape and the extremely small size of the cap sometimes it doesn't want to seal right, like the oval is misaligned.
> 
> Have you tried the cp-360? What spinfits are you using?


CP-100 for the Sonys.


----------



## smith

brtalush said:


> anyone tried: https://www.amazon.com/Mpow-Wirelee...r_1_3?keywords=mpow+anc&qid=1582420812&sr=8-3
> 
> *Mpow True Wireleess Earbuds ANC, Wireless Earbuds Touch Control Bluetooth 5.0, Earphone in-Ear with Active Noise Cancellation, Waterproof IPX6, 27 Hrs Playtime with Charging Case, Quick Charge Type-C*
> 
> They are $50 now with $15 coupon.



Interested in theses but I can only see them on Amazon.com …..and they do not ship them to the UK.


----------



## jant71 (Feb 23, 2020)

brtalush said:


> anyone tried: https://www.amazon.com/Mpow-Wirelee...r_1_3?keywords=mpow+anc&qid=1582420812&sr=8-3
> 
> *Mpow True Wireleess Earbuds ANC, Wireless Earbuds Touch Control Bluetooth 5.0, Earphone in-Ear with Active Noise Cancellation, Waterproof IPX6, 27 Hrs Playtime with Charging Case, Quick Charge Type-C*
> 
> They are $50 now with $15 coupon.



I'd assume this is not the good feed-forward type of ANC. 7 hours with ANC off and 6 hours with it on. They haven't got the better ANC to be very battery friendly yet AFAIK. 

Read that 3 star review that said the NC was a "joke".

Also bought a Simgot MTWS5 today after I saw they were 30% off. Seems with some burn in the Titanium coated driver is good sounding. At $23 shipped I bought in


----------



## Pro-Jules (Feb 23, 2020)

Apologies to the group.

Pocket lint may have made an error in reporting that the ATH-ANC300TW had APTX HD

I mentioned it here.

But I don't think it has.


----------



## wksoh (Feb 24, 2020)

viralbug said:


> Hey folks!
> I'm looking for my first TWE and I've gone through many pages in this thread, which has just confused me more.
> I'm looking for the following things in order of preference: Sound quality, USB-c, Ambient sound, ANC. ANC isn't something that is necessary, especially if passive isolation is good enough, but it's a great plus to have. Wireless charging is a bonus too. I do not care about touch controls. I'm looking to keep things under $150, but willing to go upto 200 or higher if the sound quality is great. I'll be using it with an iphone 11.
> 
> ...


Warm, good strong vocal mids, not too bright = tried (1)JBL free X or (2)MPOW M5 yet? but with micro usb. Realistic thick musician's studio sound esp Bass guitars, acoustic guitars, snares and rim shots have body and that rich ballsy rock guitar distortion. May not have  that sharp clarity that audiophiles look for. I love it much. Another super choice is (3) SSK BT03, slightly brighter with usb c.


----------



## Luke Skywalker

hifi80sman said:


> What?!  The Nural N6 Pro is not up there with the Audeze LCD-2?!  Madness!


Haha, the LCD-2s are huge...  People laugh when they see me wearing them but they're surprisingly comfortable to wear for hours at a time


----------



## Luke Skywalker (Feb 23, 2020)

Caipirina said:


> I tried the Nuarl back in December and could not get a great fit (then again, Japanese department store, and even though some have a box of Extra tips around to even let you play with that, I that one case I only had that one pair of tips) ... might need to give them a try again when I get a chance.


Hey you might want to try Acoustune AET08's.  I found out about them when I was having trouble with my IEM's popping out and I'm using them on the N6's too.  Great fit and super secure...Makes a big difference in sound quality it seems

I ended up buying mediums and largest just try them out.  I also tried Spinfits and those popped out constantly if I walked, chewed food, etc.  Seriously try the Acoustune's


----------



## 13gsc13 (Feb 23, 2020)

Put comply tips on my FIIL T1X - and made all the difference - smoothed everything out and sounds fun
wore it in hot tub tonight and the seal is pretty good with foam tips
It’s now a keeper as my secondary wireless earphones 
Senn MTW is still my number one for SQ


----------



## KarimLeVallois

I might hold off and see what the Technics EAH-AZ70W bring to the table.


----------



## BigZ12

KarimLeVallois said:


> I might hold off and see what the Technics EAH-AZ70W bring to the table.


Small hand, or huge earbuds?


----------



## KarimLeVallois (Feb 24, 2020)

BigZ12 said:


> Small hand, or huge earbuds?



Think they are on the larger size, but they have 10mm drivers and an acoustic chamber, hence the size.

'The EAH-AZ70W employ a newly developed large diameter 10mm driver that uses a graphene-coated hard plastic diaphragm in conjunction with an airflow optimised acoustic control chamber, to present treble detail and enhance bass response. This proprietary Acoustic Control Chamber design, unique to Technics, is patent pending.

This chamber is also primarily responsible for their fulsome design'.

https://www.techradar.com/uk/reviews/technics-eah-az70w-true-wireless-headphones


----------



## Hung Tuan

BigZ12 said:


> Where?
> 
> Edit: I got it now.
> From upgrade instructions: "Once finishing upgrading for both sides, the Bluetooth Name will be changed from [LYPERTEK] TEVI - L/R to LYPERTEK TEVI - L/R. That means TEVI can be used with App."
> ...



so they perform the upgrade from factory then.

I talked with the Tevi guys and they say pressing RESET button in EQ section should reset the sound of Tevi to the original (clear high with tight deep bass)


----------



## wksoh

typhoon838 said:


> What's new in the world of budget/ChiFi TWS?
> 
> Still haven't found anything to dethrone my Anbes 359, even though they've started glitching out when trying to pair to each other/to a phone, so I can't use them anymore. Their bass is just a cut above anything else I've ever tried, including the SSK with identical tips. Weird. Gimme suggestions for anything with similar/more bass than the Anbes, while keeping at least some of that beautiful clarity it has.


Tried JBL Free X and Mpow M5 yet? They seemed to have more bass than my SSK BT03. Clarity is close, they have just slightly thicker mids than SSK which I actually prefer. But both are micro usb.


----------



## BigZ12 (Feb 24, 2020)

Hung Tuan said:


> so they perform the upgrade from factory then.
> 
> I talked with the Tevi guys and they say pressing RESET button in EQ section should reset the sound of Tevi to the original (clear high with tight deep bass)


The sound is fuller with more bass after the update (and on my new set) compared to the original sound, even if you press the reset button.
I prefer the "Lypertek Signature" (as it's called after pressing reset). Don't like the bass boost.


----------



## Caipirina (Feb 24, 2020)

Finally something new on AE that tickles my interest: Aptx, Usb-C, no mention on what / how control buttons. Sporty look! And yey, a color I like  
And (allegedly) a 12mm driver ! 
Will wait for price drop, this is still asking 'full' price, I see on Alibaba that that sample price is more like 25$ .. and there's a sale coming up end of March anyways.
Like KZ, the left / right buds are switched in the box, not a biggie though.




Silly question maybe, with QC3020, does it mean it also does AAC?


----------



## Noor Al-Tamimi

I'm quite curious about this since I recently saw that Bluetooth DACs and such are now available which seems really interesting but I get the feeling that wired solutions such as the Leckerton Audio DACs beat out any wireless solutions out there?


----------



## DDDYKI

Got my Beoplay E8 3rd Gen the other day and finally have the time to really use them. A little light in the bass (I'm not using the app thanks to the overwhelmingly 'meh' reviews in Google Play) but they're quite comfortable. I love the single-tap to pause, though adjusting the volume is a little cumbersome as a result (hold for 2-3 seconds and the volume adjusts fairly quickly unless you remove your finger at the right time). I've switched between podcasts and the new Dream Theater album in 24/48 FLAC but sound is clear. Maybe one hiccup walking around Penn Station, but the connection was strong for my walk to work. There was one instance yesterday where they did not automatically pair to my phone when I took a bud out of the case, so I had to manually re-pair before it worked again.


----------



## webvan

Back in the thread ! Am I the only who misses the full length and systematic email notifications ?
Been travelling a bit and found the Echobuds to work really well in the train. I realized I could remove the wings without any fit issues and they've become a lot more comfortable. I've also been running with the Fill T1X a bit since the "RF interference fluttering" in the right ear is of course less noticeable in these circumstances. There is the "thump" of course compared to the X12 but when it's windy I think I prefer it to the wind noise.
I might still give the GGMM T1 a try  but other than that I think I'm pretty much set at this point : 
- Amazon Echobuds with ANR for travelling
- L2Ps for "critical" listening
- running : X12
- backup : bomaker with ikko shiny foam size M
- backup : MPOW M5
- backup : Havit G1


----------



## TooFrank

DDDYKI said:


> Got my Beoplay E8 3rd Gen the other day and finally have the time to really use them. A little light in the bass (I'm not using the app thanks to the overwhelmingly 'meh' reviews in Google Play) but they're quite comfortable. I love the single-tap to pause, though adjusting the volume is a little cumbersome as a result (hold for 2-3 seconds and the volume adjusts fairly quickly unless you remove your finger at the right time). I've switched between podcasts and the new Dream Theater album in 24/48 FLAC but sound is clear. Maybe one hiccup walking around Penn Station, but the connection was strong for my walk to work. There was one instance yesterday where they did not automatically pair to my phone when I took a bud out of the case, so I had to manually re-pair before it worked again.


I have also just vor my 3rd gen. Like you, I initially felt the light bass was somewhat light,  but otherwise the sound is very clear. I think you should try the app. There are adjustment possibilities which may help your impression...


----------



## erockg

TooFrank said:


> I have also just vor my 3rd gen. Like you, I initially felt the light bass was somewhat light,  but otherwise the sound is very clear. I think you should try the app. There are adjustment possibilities which may help your impression...


I love mine.  Use them every day.  The EQ in the app works well for me and adds some nice deep bass.  Battery lasts all work day too.


----------



## chinmie

webvan said:


> Back in the thread ! Am I the only who misses the full length and systematic email notifications ?
> Been travelling a bit and found the Echobuds to work really well in the train. I realized I could remove the wings without any fit issues and they've become a lot more comfortable. I've also been running with the Fill T1X a bit since the "RF interference fluttering" in the right ear is of course less noticeable in these circumstances. There is the "thump" of course compared to the X12 but when it's windy I think I prefer it to the wind noise.
> I might still give the GGMM T1 a try  but other than that I think I'm pretty much set at this point :
> - Amazon Echobuds with ANR for travelling
> ...



my list would be:
-XM3 and Gbuds for more critical listening (depending if ANC needed or not) 
-Airsun X8 and Dyplay BQC35 for motorcycle rides and Gym (depending on whether i want balanced or V-shaped sound) 
-GGMM T1 for running, water-prone activities (washing the car, for one ), and also for watching TV
-Nillkin Go, X12, Earin M2 for backups
-T1C and Soundcore Neo are rarely used and subject to sell or give away to family members


----------



## voicemaster

My top 3 tws that I am using right now: 
-. Mifo07
-. 1more ANC
-. Cleer Ally
Back up will be Fiil T1X and samsung Galaxy buds.


----------



## gruberaj

13gsc13 said:


> Put comply tips on my FIIL T1X - and made all the difference - smoothed everything out and sounds fun


What size tips do they take?


----------



## sanity8me

How does the Mifo 07 compare to mw07 plus?


----------



## FYLegend

Turns out Klipsch T3 is also only microUSB but has Qi charging. Some mixed reviews on YouTube now. Saved me the effort of buying them. I remember the days when S4 was hyped as the anti-Beats by sites like CNET but was somewhat disappointed by them, especially the build quality.

Finally Galaxy Buds price has dropped, is the Galaxy Buds+ not enough of a jump to justify the difference? I've been using my dud Sabbat E12 Ultra and Tronsmart Spunky Beat as my daily drivers as of late. Both have the same channel imbalance issue where mids hit harder on the left - E12 Ultra responds well to foam padding to balance it but Spunky Beat less so.

Gonna return the Muzili EA10, even for 40$ I cannot live with the compromises it has. SBC only, distortion with certain sounds (fixable with disable absolute volume, but very tedious considering Samsung has removed "media volume sync" feature), and USB-C-to-A charging only. Sound quality was decent but slightly imbalanced with more bass on the left - overall tuning is a tad dark leans towards the mid-bass with not much sub-bass.


----------



## vaaccess

13gsc13 said:


> Put comply tips on my FIIL T1X - and made all the difference - smoothed everything out and sounds fun
> wore it in hot tub tonight and the seal is pretty good with foam tips
> It’s now a keeper as my secondary wireless earphones
> Senn MTW is still my number one for SQ



which Comply tips did you go with?


----------



## chinmie

FYLegend said:


> Turns out Klipsch T3 is also only microUSB but has Qi charging. Some mixed reviews on YouTube now. Saved me the effort of buying them. I remember the days when S4 was hyped as the anti-Beats by sites like CNET but was somewhat disappointed by them, especially the build quality.
> 
> Finally Galaxy Buds price has dropped, is the Galaxy Buds+ not enough of a jump to justify the difference? I've been using my dud Sabbat E12 Ultra and Tronsmart Spunky Beat as my daily drivers as of late. Both have the same channel imbalance issue where mids hit harder on the left - E12 Ultra responds well to foam padding to balance it but Spunky Beat less so.
> 
> Gonna return the Muzili EA10, even for 40$ I cannot live with the compromises it has. SBC only, distortion with certain sounds (fixable with disable absolute volume, but very tedious considering Samsung has removed "media volume sync" feature), and USB-C-to-A charging only. Sound quality was decent but slightly imbalanced with more bass on the left - overall tuning is a tad dark leans towards the mid-bass with not much sub-bass.



if the battery life and call quality difference are important, I'd say go for the plus. but if you only be using it for music and othet listening (and think 6 hours at a time is plenty), stick to the cheaper older version


----------



## voicemaster

Had a chance to tried out 1more ANC on a long haul flight (24 hours total flight) and the ANC was pretty good in eliminating the engine noise from the airplane. When using the ANC at the highest setting which changed the sound of the buds in the airplane, I didn't really notice a big difference unlike when using the ANC on a quiet environment. The mid level ANC still let out a little bit of engine noise, but completely unnoticed while playing music or video. Without the ANC, the earbuds don't seal as good as my other TWS (mifo07 and Cleer Ally). I also tried the mifo07 and it definitely blocked outside noise better than 1more. Even without ANC, I found it isolate enough and it is much more comfortable when sleeping.


----------



## voicemaster

chinmie said:


> if the battery life and call quality difference are important, I'd say go for the plus. but if you only be using it for music and othet listening (and think 6 hours at a time is plenty), stick to the cheaper older version


Better ambiance mode also. The ambiance mode on the original galaxy buds is a joke tbh.


----------



## webvan

Talking of ANC changing the noise I finally heard the weird problem pointed out by others here about the Amazon Echobuds with the right ear "cutting out" at a specifice volume setting when in a high noise environment. Bump it up one notch and it's better, one more notch and it's perfect. Very odd !


----------



## chinmie

voicemaster said:


> Better ambiance mode also. The ambiance mode on the original galaxy buds is a joke tbh.



louder or more natural sounding? 
I'm that kind of person who can still hear things around me quite well even with ANC on, so the old GBuds ambient mode is plenty loud for me   but even though people's pronunciation are clear enough, i do think it's a bit robotic sounding


----------



## KarimLeVallois

Just tried another pair of M&D MW07 Plus to see if the first pair was faulty... Nope, this pair also has appalling connection issues and drops all over the place no matter which pocket (not like that should matter at this price!) I have the source in. I've asked them for a refund and will hold back to see what else hits the market.


----------



## nihontoman

have you guys tried the Soundpeats truengine 2? seen some videos but nothing indepth


----------



## brianforever

been using BT 5.0 for the last 3 months..and I can confirm that wireless/bluetooth is not there yet


----------



## chinmie

brianforever said:


> been using BT 5.0 for the last 3 months..and I can confirm that wireless/bluetooth is not there yet



what BT 5 device that you meant and also what's the benchmark that you are hoping?


----------



## Caipirina

webvan said:


> Back in the thread ! Am I the only who misses the full length and systematic email notifications ?
> Been travelling a bit and found the Echobuds to work really well in the train. I realized I could remove the wings without any fit issues and they've become a lot more comfortable. I've also been running with the Fill T1X a bit since the "RF interference fluttering" in the right ear is of course less noticeable in these circumstances. There is the "thump" of course compared to the X12 but when it's windy I think I prefer it to the wind noise.
> I might still give the GGMM T1 a try  but other than that I think I'm pretty much set at this point :
> - Amazon Echobuds with ANR for travelling
> ...


Funny you mention the Havit G1, yesterday, after quite a while, I gave them a whirl again and realized why I don’t use them often: they are a pain to get out of the case!!! And back in, you never know which way around and to read the R/L indicators I need to grab reading glasses ... 

My current rotation includes the APP, both my X12 (black or blue, matching outfit  ), Powerbeats Pro for running. Around the house the Bose SSF and 1More Stylish (aptx connected to TempoTec).


----------



## Caipirina (Feb 25, 2020)

Is it just me or have the Haylou Gt1 PLUS completely vanished from AliExpress??? I've seen them just a few days ago and pretty certain even had them in shopping cart ... now I can;t find a single mention not even 'sold out' ... just a glitch? or Qualcomm called with a lawsuit?

Found that one comparison on gearbest that says that the plus has a different membrane compared to the other Haylous ... can anyone comment if / how that changes the SQ? Having the regular GT1 in my ears right now and still blown away by the sound of these tiny buds.




And yep, it WAS in my shopping cart ...


----------



## mikp

still no showstopper tws announced?
apt-x ->
ambient
anc
all normal controls: volume,tracks,ambient\anc etc
ipx rated


----------



## stormwrx

mikp said:


> still no showstopper tws announced?
> apt-x ->
> ambient
> anc
> ...



The MW07 Plus meets the above criteria (as long as you are not having connection issues, which I am not). Personally, I think the Cleer Ally Plus sound a bit better (punchier bass), but those have no track skipping.


----------



## erockg

stormwrx said:


> The MW07 Plus meets the above criteria (as long as you are not having connection issues, which I am not). Personally, I think the Cleer Ally Plus sound a bit better (punchier bass), but those have no track skipping.


Cleer Ally Plus has better ANC for sure.  My money is on the new Sennheiser MTW 2 that are coming soon!  

https://www.reddit.com/r/sennheiser..._we_know_about_the_momentum_true_wireless_2s/


----------



## mikp

seems im waiting some more..not helping that local shops don't take in ears on returns.


----------



## erockg

mikp said:


> seems im waiting some more..not helping that local shops don't take in ears on returns.


Amazon.  Not sure they have that where you're located.  That's my go-to these days.  Way better return policy.


----------



## erockg

I've got the Sol Republic Amps Air+ arriving today.  https://www.solrepublic.com/wireless/amps-air-plus.html


----------



## tma6

erockg said:


> Cleer Ally Plus has better ANC for sure.  My money is on the new Sennheiser MTW 2 that are coming soon!
> 
> https://www.reddit.com/r/sennheiser..._we_know_about_the_momentum_true_wireless_2s/



Been eyeing those, also checking these Ausounds Au-Stream Hybrid out right now. Can't seem to find too much about them online. Anyone know anything?

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B...&pf_rd_p=ab873d20-a0ca-439b-ac45-cd78f07a84d8


----------



## 13gsc13

I put the Comply true wireless tips but had to squeeze them on
I’m going to shorten my Bee foam tips and see if they work - cheaper


----------



## aspirina750 (Feb 25, 2020)

HiFlight said:


> Just to add another opinion, after creating my favored EQ profile, and 5 days of nearly continuous use, I consider my 75t to now rank at the top of my list of owned TWS phones,  considering SQ, comfort and features. (Using Android sources plus Sound+ app for customization )



Heya, any chance you could share your EQ profile? Been testing a few options but can't decide which one I like the best. thanks


BTW, I'm looking for good silicon eartips for both the 75t and the Buds+... My trusty Spiral Dots don't stay...could anyone recommend some?

Thank you


----------



## gruberaj (Feb 25, 2020)

13gsc13 said:


> I put the Comply true wireless tips but had to squeeze them on
> I’m going to shorten my Bee foam tips and see if they work - cheaper


More so for the inner diameter rather than length. I've seen some photos of the t1xs and they are short and stubby - presumably so they can fit in the case. Any chance you know what size diameter they take? T100, T200, T400, or perhaps the actual measurement of the headphone tip?

I have a pair of t1x's currently in the mail and I'm trying to capitalise on ordering some inexpensive (non-Comply) foam tips at the same time haha!


----------



## 13gsc13

Don’t know the size and don’t want to remove the tips to measure right now


----------



## HiFlight (Feb 26, 2020)

gruberaj said:


> More so for the inner diameter rather than length. I've seen some photos of the t1xs and they are short and stubby - presumably so they can fit in the case. Any chance you know what size diameter they take? T100, T200, T400, or perhaps the actual measurement of the headphone tip?
> 
> I have a pair of t1x's currently in the mail and I'm trying to capitalise on ordering some inexpensive (non-Comply) foam tips at the same time haha!


While I don't have the exact dimensions, I have used the large size Flare Everyday Audiophile,  Jabra 65/75t and UE900 tips and they all fit inside the charging case, so I suspect that a wide variety of foam tips will also fit.  Hope this helps!


----------



## Caipirina (Feb 26, 2020)

Anyone know of these? Appears to be a new-ish 1MORE model, earbud style and only available at Gearbest? Can't find any other source online really ... I like that earbud style, but not sure I would want to shell out the 42$ asking price right now ... 20-22$ maybe    (ooooh, just found "34.99$ with the code: GB20201MORE")
 Just odd that this only shows up in one spot (and here in the forums in a gearbest thread, that's how I came across them).. and there is one YT video ...


----------



## tma6

tma6 said:


> Been eyeing those, also checking these Ausounds Au-Stream Hybrid out right now. Can't seem to find too much about them online. Anyone know anything?
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B...&pf_rd_p=ab873d20-a0ca-439b-ac45-cd78f07a84d8



Just bought these for a trial run. Will report back when I get them in hand next week!


----------



## go0gle

brianforever said:


> been using BT 5.0 for the last 3 months..and I can confirm that wireless/bluetooth is not there yet



Strange, I have the exact opposite opinion.


----------



## mikp

erockg said:


> Amazon.  Not sure they have that where you're located.  That's my go-to these days.  Way better return policy.


no amazon for my country..could be a good thing. But would like the possibility of tws returns considering some of the high prices


----------



## thimantha

Caipirina said:


> Is it just me or have the Haylou Gt1 PLUS completely vanished from AliExpress??? I've seen them just a few days ago and pretty certain even had them in shopping cart ... now I can;t find a single mention not even 'sold out' ... just a glitch? or Qualcomm called with a lawsuit?



https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000411045940.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.5af34c4d96v8rj

The item is not available. Probably due to constraints because of the coronavirus. The GT1(+) case was also unavailable during the CNY days and now it's back. Try checking in a couple of weeks, it should be back there.


----------



## thimantha

Caipirina said:


> Found that one comparison on gearbest that says that the plus has a different membrane compared to the other Haylous ... can anyone comment if / how that changes the SQ? Having the regular GT1 in my ears right now and still blown away by the sound of these tiny buds.



I feel like it has more depth than the original buds. Not a huge difference, but you can feel it in many tracks. Sounds fuller! I prefer the SQ of GT1 Plus to the originals and many other well-acclaimed TWS pairs in the market. But of course, YMMV.


----------



## KarimLeVallois (Feb 26, 2020)

stormwrx said:


> The MW07 Plus meets the above criteria (as long as you are not having connection issues, which I am not). Personally, I think the Cleer Ally Plus sound a bit better (punchier bass), but those have no track skipping.



I get connection issues all over the place on my commute, so do you live in a rural area or something? I've tried three separate pairs from different companies, so can't be the batch.


----------



## mikp

KarimLeVallois said:


> I get connection issues all over the place on my commute, so do you live in a rural area or something? lol



did a quick search, and several reports this and poor anc. Still holding on to my mavin air-x after aver a year, and jabra 65 for hikes.


----------



## axhng

Caipirina said:


> Is it just me or have the Haylou Gt1 PLUS completely vanished from AliExpress??? I've seen them just a few days ago and pretty certain even had them in shopping cart ... now I can;t find a single mention not even 'sold out' ... just a glitch? or Qualcomm called with a lawsuit?
> 
> Found that one comparison on gearbest that says that the plus has a different membrane compared to the other Haylous ... can anyone comment if / how that changes the SQ? Having the regular GT1 in my ears right now and still blown away by the sound of these tiny buds.





thimantha said:


> I feel like it has more depth than the original buds. Not a huge difference, but you can feel it in many tracks. Sounds fuller! I prefer the SQ of GT1 Plus to the originals and many other well-acclaimed TWS pairs in the market. But of course, YMMV.



I second this as well. I don't have the GT1 anymore and it was quite some time ago, but I remember thinking it was just good for its price. For the GT1 Plus, I think it's good, even putting aside the price. IIRC, the GT1's detail retrieval isn't as good, and I remember thinking the treble was a little harsh at higher volumes. But it was quite some time ago, so I might be wrong.

I actually like how the GT1 Plus sound more than a few other popular budget TWS too, like Mpow m5/t5, Mifo O5 Pro, QCY T5, KZ S1, and even more expensive options I've tried like Melomania 1, Lypertek Tevi (default firmware), Creative Outlier Air. But YMMV of course. Sound is very subjective after all. Easiest way is to try for yourself.


----------



## chinmie

Caipirina said:


> Anyone know of these? Appears to be a new-ish 1MORE model, earbud style and only available at Gearbest? Can't find any other source online really ... I like that earbud style, but not sure I would want to shell out the 42$ asking price right now ... 20-22$ maybe    (ooooh, just found "34.99$ with the code: GB20201MORE")
> Just odd that this only shows up in one spot (and here in the forums in a gearbest thread, that's how I came across them).. and there is one YT video ...





there's a new video about it on youtube. i also saw that on online store in my country, but strangely can't find it on AE. that's the first review that I've seen. the only thing that made me hesitant is the battery life.. my mental limit for putchase is now set at minimum 5 hours playtime


----------



## KarimLeVallois

mikp said:


> did a quick search, and several reports this and poor anc. Still holding on to my mavin air-x after aver a year, and jabra 65 for hikes.



I never had issues with the original MW07 in the same areas, so rather disappointing. Such a shame, they actually sound really nice, even with just SBC. Will put the refund money in my savings and hold tight until the Sennheiser/Technics release.


----------



## clerkpalmer

KarimLeVallois said:


> I never had issues with the original MW07 in the same areas, so rather disappointing. Such a shame, they actually sound really nice, even with just SBC. Will put the refund money in my savings and hold tight until the Sennheiser/Technics release.


My MW07 plus do not have any connection issues. That is strange.


----------



## KarimLeVallois

clerkpalmer said:


> My MW07 plus do not have any connection issues. That is strange.



Strange indeed! I even tried different pockets in my trousers (both sides), along with pockets in my coat, so that the source (iPhone Xs) was closer.


----------



## BobJS

I also have no connection problems with my MW07 plus.  Of course, I can't recall ever having any connection problems with any TW.  I'm sure a lot has to do with the environment one is trying to use them in.


----------



## clerkpalmer

BobJS said:


> I also have no connection problems with my MW07 plus.  Of course, I can't recall ever having any connection problems with any TW.  I'm sure a lot has to do with the environment one is trying to use them in.


I have to agree. 1 bad pair maybe but 2 suggests something is interfering.


----------



## KarimLeVallois

BobJS said:


> I also have no connection problems with my MW07 plus.  Of course, I can't recall ever having any connection problems with any TW.  I'm sure a lot has to do with the environment one is trying to use them in.



Totally! However, I did the same commute with the original MW07 and no issues at all, the B&O E8 had problems though. Maybe for the MW07 Plus it has something to do with SBC being used, rather than AAC?


----------



## KarimLeVallois

clerkpalmer said:


> I have to agree. 1 bad pair maybe but 2 suggests something is interfering.



Three in fact, from different shops...


----------



## BobJS

KarimLeVallois said:


> Totally! However, I did the same commute with the original MW07 and no issues at all, the B&O E8 had problems though. Maybe for the MW07 Plus it has something to do with SBC being used, rather than AAC?



... and I'm using aptx (on original, and plus), not SBC.


----------



## KarimLeVallois

BobJS said:


> ... and I'm using aptx (on original, and plus), not SBC.



Maybe SBC is crap then, the original MW07 used AAC and were solid.


----------



## clerkpalmer

KarimLeVallois said:


> Maybe SBC is crap then, the original MW07 used AAC and were solid.


I would not think that would be the issue. If anything i would think the sbc connection would be more stable.  Hmmm.


----------



## KarimLeVallois

clerkpalmer said:


> I would not think that would be the issue. If anything i would think the sbc connection would be more stable.  Hmmm.



Well, that's me out of ideas! lol


----------



## Caipirina (Feb 26, 2020)

chinmie said:


> there's a new video about it on youtube. i also saw that on online store in my country, but strangely can't find it on AE. that's the first review that I've seen. the only thing that made me hesitant is the battery life.. my mental limit for putchase is now set at minimum 5 hours playtime




Wow, Kenneth is really trying hard here to find things he likes (since he wants to get more free stuff from GB in the future  ) ... but also seems that he has little experience with half in ear buds ... and what is he testing that dual mode so thoroughly for? ah well, stalling for time to fit in more ads I guess ... could have mentioned they have AAC ... and not sure why he is dismissing 14mm drivers, that is huge and in some occasions a premium selling point ...

Still interested, they are pretty similar to these buds I got a while ago (very different case though)




Ooooh, and something brandnew on AliExpress (i am the first 'liker') called Tyroq S10 has that same earbud built, very different, fancy case, AptX and 50$ price tag ... that could also be interesting ...



 (edit: not so sure about the AptX. 3 sellers on AliExpress and only one is super advertising that feature, another mentions it in passing and the 3rd does not mention it at all ...)


----------



## d3myz

Hey Gents, 

I took on a new role at work and it's been a busy Feb. I've been struggling to keep up with the thread. I'm currently on the hunt for another pair of ANC buds. I hardly ever use my Sony XM1000's as I find the ambient/passthrough just to low to be of use to me and after a recent firmware update on the echo buds, the touch functionality is so much better. I mostly use my APPs and the Echo Buds as Daily Drivers so i'm looking for something equivalent ambient soundwise or better. The APPs are a clear winner with ANC and the Echo Buds have excellent sound quality and decent ANC/ANR. Any Suggestions? Who's using what right now? I'd like to stay in the $100-200 price range.


----------



## Odioer

Update ony the SSKs.
I sleep with them and a few days back found one of the buds lost the rubber button. Found it eventually and stuck it back using quick glue but it hardend the button (it works but lack feedback now).

Anyhow the sound have been excellent though. Loving these even more as they have definitely 'opened up' with more listening. 

These are definitely my favorite sounding gear, I've been feeling the itch though for getting a new toy, anybody who loves thier SSKs and would recommend me something that sounds similar but resolves more detail without being sibilant & tiring. Wired IEM would also be ok.

Thanks


----------



## Ocelitgol

d3myz said:


> Hey Gents,
> 
> I took on a new role at work and it's been a busy Feb. I've been struggling to keep up with the thread. I'm currently on the hunt for another pair of ANC buds. I hardly ever use my Sony XM1000's as I find the ambient/passthrough just to low to be of use to me and after a recent firmware update on the echo buds, the touch functionality is so much better. I mostly use my APPs and the Echo Buds as Daily Drivers so i'm looking for something equivalent ambient soundwise or better. The APPs are a clear winner with ANC and the Echo Buds have excellent sound quality and decent ANC/ANR. Any Suggestions? Who's using what right now? I'd like to stay in the $100-200 price range.


are you referring to the Sony WF-1000XM3? 
I dont use the passthrough much myself since I always want ANC, but the Level 20 setting lets in a lot of noise.


----------



## tma6

d3myz said:


> Hey Gents,
> 
> I took on a new role at work and it's been a busy Feb. I've been struggling to keep up with the thread. I'm currently on the hunt for another pair of ANC buds. I hardly ever use my Sony XM1000's as I find the ambient/passthrough just to low to be of use to me and after a recent firmware update on the echo buds, the touch functionality is so much better. I mostly use my APPs and the Echo Buds as Daily Drivers so i'm looking for something equivalent ambient soundwise or better. The APPs are a clear winner with ANC and the Echo Buds have excellent sound quality and decent ANC/ANR. Any Suggestions? Who's using what right now? I'd like to stay in the $100-200 price range.



Man I feel you on the business. My schedule has been crazy this year. I just ordered the au-stream hybrid from ausounds for $185 with discount code WELCOMEBACK20 (not sure if that was a one time use code). Will let you know my impressions when they show up, probably next week!


----------



## Caipirina

Odioer said:


> Update ony the SSKs.
> I sleep with them and a few days back found one of the buds lost the rubber button. Found it eventually and stuck it back using quick glue but it hardend the button (it works but lack feedback now).
> 
> Anyhow the sound have been excellent though. Loving these even more as they have definitely 'opened up' with more listening.
> ...


 Back in the day someone had the very same with their Anbes 359, rubber part of button coming loose ...   also glued it on 
Need to give both (anbes / ssk) some more listening love, thanks for the reminder


----------



## Eddie C

Hey folks I have been eyeing the Fiil T1X the past week due to the consistent good reviews. Do you guys recommend I go ahead with the purchase or consider other models?


----------



## PTDennis

Eddie C said:


> Hey folks I have been eyeing the Fiil T1X the past week due to the consistent good reviews. Do you guys recommend I go ahead with the purchase or consider other models?


I really enjoy them. No lack of connection, comfortable, fast connection and great sound.


----------



## webvan

Eddie C said:


> Hey folks I have been eyeing the Fiil T1X the past week due to the consistent good reviews. Do you guys recommend I go ahead with the purchase or consider other models?


Make sure you get them from somewhere where you can send them back easily because several of us have had QC problems with them, like annoying static (not just a high noise floor) on either side.

In other news I received the GGMM T1 and I'm not too impressed. They're awkward to put on (I have to twist my ear a bit) but mostly I get ZERO seal with the provided tips...or with any other tips I've tried (CP360, ikko, CP100) so they sound "tinny". Only the Comply T200 help to beef up the sound a bit but the isolation remains poor. Not even sure it's worth trying to run with them...


----------



## d3myz

Ocelitgol said:


> are you referring to the Sony WF-1000XM3?
> I dont use the passthrough much myself since I always want ANC, but the Level 20 setting lets in a lot of noise.


That is correct. It's piss poor IMO.


----------



## chinmie

webvan said:


> Make sure you get them from somewhere where you can send them back easily because several of us have had QC problems with them, like annoying static (not just a high noise floor) on either side.
> 
> In other news I received the GGMM T1 and I'm not too impressed. They're awkward to put on (I have to twist my ear a bit) but mostly I get ZERO seal with the provided tips...or with any other tips I've tried (CP360, ikko, CP100) so they sound "tinny". Only the Comply T200 help to beef up the sound a bit but the isolation remains poor. Not even sure it's worth trying to run with them...



try using a foam tips reversed (upside down). it works well for me. there's also some silicone tips that can be used reversed (like the MH755 and KZ starline tips), but i like the sound of the foam better with the T1, and it also still fits in the charging case (i use the new bee foams). 
the fit is also my main problem when i first got the GGMM T1 to the point i almost sell them immediately. the reason i kept giving effort to get a good fit because other than that, it's a really great product (nice headphone-like sound, great controls, battery life, waterproofing, superb drop-proof). 
i can wear them under ear with any tips no problem, but i have to reverse the L/R output on the phone.
funny thing is, after trying that upside-down hack with foams, i started to discover that it can also applied to my other IEMs.

there's also one hack that i think of that could potentially be used with any eartips and can still fit it the charger case, that is applying some materials (bluetack, foams, or rubber) on the side of the unit so it presses against the inside of the earlobe, but i haven't got the chance to do it, partly because the foam trick works well enough for me


----------



## harpdoc

Just received some WM07 Plus' and have been listening for 90 minutes on my Android phone. Initial reaction: wow these sound wonderful! Even with stock tips and no EQ, very nice, balanced, pleasant. Love the real buttons. Super intuitive to use all of the settings. Not so sure about comfort though. I'll try some foam tips when i get home and will compare to Galaxy Buds+. 99% sure Buds+ are going back to Amazon.


----------



## jasonb

Well I just ordered a Lypertek Tevi. We'll see how it is.


----------



## tma6

erockg said:


> I've got the Sol Republic Amps Air+ arriving today.  https://www.solrepublic.com/wireless/amps-air-plus.html



How you finding these man??


----------



## Eddie C

webvan said:


> Make sure you get them from somewhere where you can send them back easily because several of us have had QC problems with them, like annoying static (not just a high noise floor) on either side.
> 
> In other news I received the GGMM T1 and I'm not too impressed. They're awkward to put on (I have to twist my ear a bit) but mostly I get ZERO seal with the provided tips...or with any other tips I've tried (CP360, ikko, CP100) so they sound "tinny". Only the Comply T200 help to beef up the sound a bit but the isolation remains poor. Not even sure it's worth trying to run with them...




Yup thats my concern, saw some reports about the static, and outside of US so I dont have amazon as middleman to help return process! Im planning to purchase off geekbuying. Gearbest has them too but probably not any better for returns.


----------



## caprimulgus

Anyone tried both Soundpeats TrueDot and TruEngine SE? TruDots rated to be superior on Scarbir (including 1st for value and 3rd for sound quality and call quality), but most comments I've read elsewhere have been the exact opposite!


----------



## gruberaj

Since another user was asking here as well - update on t1x tip size - I can't find my vernier caliper but they're a solid 5mm using a tape measure. 4.9mm inner diameter tips would/should fit. In order to fit in the case you'll either need to get something short and stubby or some cheap ones and cut them down quite a bit (or just fork out for Comply's!).


----------



## harpdoc

Let me say up front that a comparison between a $150 and a $300 set of TWS buds is not fair.  But here goes anyway. Keep in mind, I'm using an Android phone, which means I'm using AAC with Galaxy Buds+ and Apt-x with M&D WM07 Plus.
1. The sound quality of the WM07 Plus+ is clearly superior. Better balanced, more depth, better imaging, more 3D. The Buds+ grew on me over the past week. Perhaps burn-in, probably mostly my brain adjusting to them. But really no comparison. Looking forward to the M&D's burning in.
2. The case is lighter and smaller for the buds, and i really appreciate the wireless charging. However, it won't close with foam tips. The M&D case closes with foam tips.
3. I prefer the physical buttons of the M&D's to the touch controls of the Buds, but both are intuitive and work well. I still can't put the Buds in my ears without activating something accidentally.
4. Features are pretty even. I prefer that the Buds have an app and more control over ambient mode, which may be a little better. ANC on the M&D's is mildly useful.
5. The Buds for my ears are very comfortable. The M&D's are not uncomfortable, but not as good for my particular ears.
6. Connection quality is great on both, but seems slightly better on the M&D's.


----------



## vaaccess

vaaccess said:


> Wild. Since I returned mine, I decided to try them again for $8 shipped. I wonder if they’ll cancel my order...


And yes, they cancelled my 1Tx order. 



Eddie C said:


> Hey folks I have been eyeing the Fiil T1X the past week due to the consistent good reviews. Do you guys recommend I go ahead with the purchase or consider other models?


As another person mentioned, strong recommendation for purchasing where you can return them. I had driver flex in the left ear bud and returned them.



gruberaj said:


> Since another user was asking here as well - update on t1x tip size - I can't find my vernier caliper but they're a solid 5mm using a tape measure. 4.9mm inner diameter tips would/should fit. In order to fit in the case you'll either need to get something short and stubby or some cheap ones and cut them down quite a bit (or just fork out for Comply's!).



Your tape skills are very good!


vaaccess said:


> I used my calipers to measure the 1Tx, it is exactly as shown. 5mm at the outer most part of the lip and 4mm on the inner part of the lip.


----------



## gruberaj

vaaccess said:


> vaaccess said:
> I used my calipers to measure the 1Tx, it is exactly as shown. 5mm at the outer most part of the lip and 4mm on the inner part of the lip.



Wow I wish I found your post yesty! I was about 50 pages off unfortunately... so many replies in this thread haha 

I read your post, and coincidentally I had already ordered pretty much identical foam tips (the Misodoki ones or whichever). Great minds 


Now where the hell are my calipers!!


----------



## erockg

tma6 said:


> How you finding these man??


They’re going back.  No volume control.  ANC is eh.  Better on the Cleer, Sony and APP.  Sound is low which I was surprised.  Also, the fit didn’t work for me.  Tried so many tips, none worked outside of the OEM tips that would fit in the case.  No firmware updates and no Qi charging.  Oh well.  Thought they’d wow me, but there are better options.


----------



## Eisenhower

Why are there so few measurements for all these budget TWS earphones? There are so many options on Amazon and the user reviews are of course all over the place and untrustworthy in general. 

Can anyone tell me which would be best out of Fiil t1x, SoundPEATS truefree plus, Bomaker sifi, mpow m5, annnnnd the TOZO T6? I'm using an iPhone so I primarily care about AAC. I'm concerned that some of these will be too heavy to stay in. 

and can anyone say how well the t1x's stay in the ear (and also if you use the included rubber ear wing things, however they work)


----------



## FYLegend (Feb 27, 2020)

mikp said:


> still no showstopper tws announced?
> apt-x ->
> ambient
> anc
> ...


Hopefully the DSI on Indiegogo delivers...

Has anyone noticed stereo crosstalk on TWS is actually better than most wired IEMs or headphones?


----------



## KarimLeVallois

harpdoc said:


> Let me say up front that a comparison between a $150 and a $300 set of TWS buds is not fair.  But here goes anyway. Keep in mind, I'm using an Android phone, which means I'm using AAC with Galaxy Buds+ and Apt-x with M&D WM07 Plus.
> 1. The sound quality of the WM07 Plus+ is clearly superior. Better balanced, more depth, better imaging, more 3D. The Buds+ grew on me over the past week. Perhaps burn-in, probably mostly my brain adjusting to them. But really no comparison. Looking forward to the M&D's burning in.
> 2. The case is lighter and smaller for the buds, and i really appreciate the wireless charging. However, it won't close with foam tips. The M&D case closes with foam tips.
> 3. I prefer the physical buttons of the M&D's to the touch controls of the Buds, but both are intuitive and work well. I still can't put the Buds in my ears without activating something accidentally.
> ...


Have you taken the MW07 Plus out and about yet in busy places?


----------



## webvan (Feb 27, 2020)

chinmie said:


> try using a foam tips reversed (upside down). it works well for me. there's also some silicone tips that can be used reversed (like the MH755 and KZ starline tips), but i like the sound of the foam better with the T1, and it also still fits in the charging case (i use the new bee foams).
> the fit is also my main problem when i first got the GGMM T1 to the point i almost sell them immediately. the reason i kept giving effort to get a good fit because other than that, it's a really great product (nice headphone-like sound, great controls, battery life, waterproofing, superb drop-proof).
> i can wear them under ear with any tips no problem, but i have to reverse the L/R output on the phone.
> funny thing is, after trying that upside-down hack with foams, i started to discover that it can also applied to my other IEMs.



Yes when worn upside down I have a better fit and even with the stock tips the sound was decent, however I could not resort myself to walk around my local supermarket like that  I did try to reverse the T200 cylindrical "isolation" tips like you did but I didn't notice any improvement compared to using the T200 round "audio" tips, possibly worse since the harder plastic of the bottom part hurt my ears a bit.



Eddie C said:


> Yup thats my concern, saw some reports about the static, and outside of US so I dont have amazon as middleman to help return process! Im planning to purchase off geekbuying. Gearbest has them too but probably not any better for returns.



Don't count on being able to send them back to Gearbest as they do not honor their "return postage paid for DOA items", they only offer partial refunds.


----------



## BobJS

Eddie C said:


> Hey folks I have been eyeing the Fiil T1X the past week due to the consistent good reviews. Do you guys recommend I go ahead with the purchase or consider other models?



If you're on an iphone, they seem to get universally good grades.  As an android user, I found their AAC on Android made them nothing special and got rid of them as they don't support aptx.


----------



## nihontoman

Eddie C said:


> Hey folks I have been eyeing the Fiil T1X the past week due to the consistent good reviews. Do you guys recommend I go ahead with the purchase or consider other models?


I'm also eyeing the t1x along with bomaker sifi. not sure which one to go for though - t1x has usb type c and those wings, where the bomaker has aptx ( which might be worth considering, if you are going to use it with android phone and not with apple device) and better case...

decisions decisions. if only I knew a coupon code


----------



## webvan

I prefer the tuning of the Bomaker but they're so small that the seal breaks easily if I move my jaw. Using the misodiko shiny foams helps with that. Thanks to their wings the Fill T1X hold better out of the box...although pulling them out of their box I'm reminded I had to use the tips that came with the L2Ps for a good seal.


----------



## PTDennis

nihontoman said:


> I'm also eyeing the t1x along with bomaker sifi. not sure which one to go for though - t1x has usb type c and those wings, where the bomaker has aptx ( which might be worth considering, if you are going to use it with android phone and not with apple device) and better case...
> 
> decisions decisions. if only I knew a coupon code


I tried both, and definitely prefer the T1X. More impactful bass and better seal.


----------



## nihontoman

BobJS said:


> If you're on an iphone, they seem to get universally good grades.  As an android user, I found their AAC on Android made them nothing special and got rid of them as they don't support aptx.



THANKS for that. I also saw some bad info aboput AAC on android, so TWS that doesn't support aptx seem like a bad deal to me now.



webvan said:


> I prefer the tuning of the Bomaker but they're so small that the seal breaks easily if I move my jaw. Using the misodiko shiny foams helps with that. Thanks to their wings the Fill T1X hold better out of the box...although pulling them out of their box I'm reminded I had to use the tips that came with the L2Ps for a good seal.



thanks! I like the fact that they are small. might be a good thing for bedtime use.



PTDennis said:


> I tried both, and definitely prefer the T1X. More impactful bass and better seal.



thanks for the reply! what source are u using them from?


----------



## jant71

FYLegend said:


> Hopefully the DSI on Indiegogo delivers...
> 
> Has anyone noticed stereo crosstalk on TWS is actually better than most wired IEMs or headphones?



Since crosstalk is about noise/distortion/leaking between the channels when a signal travels through a cable and TWS don't have cables that shouldn't be a problem.  BT might have some interference issues or other issues that cause noise or distortion but they shouldn't have wire related issues.


----------



## jasonb

jant71 said:


> Since crosstalk is about noise/distortion/leaking between the channels when a signal travels through a cable and TWS don't have cables that shouldn't be a problem.  BT might have some interference issues or other issues that cause noise or distortion but they shouldn't have wire related issues.



Isn't crosstalk an amplifier or DAC problem? I don't think the sound is leaking as the sound travels through the cable.


----------



## PTDennis

[/QUOTE] thanks for the reply! what source are u using them from?
[/QUOTE]
@nihontoman I am using an iPhone XS and a 2019 MacBook Pro.


----------



## harpdoc

KarimLeVallois said:


> Have you taken the MW07 Plus out and about yet in busy places?



So far home, car, in nature, and office, which is a three story building with about 100 employees. Perfect thus far. Long range and very low latency.

It's clear that certain phones do better with certain Bluetooth products and codecs. My LG V50 is a good match for the MW07 Plus using Apt-x. It's a bummer that your phone isn't.


----------



## de51red

Another KZ appear in the wild 







https://www.linsoul.com/pages/kz-s2...MqnCQtr9a6xWOTf8Sx-DkcgOm-PApODkaRVlPw2WbC88A


----------



## voicemaster

de51red said:


> Another KZ appear in the wild
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Looks promising. Only 1 company that can spew out iems/tws every now and then until they got it right is KZ. Their latest iem (KZ ZSX) has been awesome. Took them a lot of tries until they got it right, but they are really persistent. Hope the same thing will happen on their tws line up.


----------



## nihontoman

thanks for the reply! what source are u using them from?
[/QUOTE]
@nihontoman I am using an iPhone XS and a 2019 MacBook Pro.
[/QUOTE]

Thanks for confirming! seems like apple users prefer the Fiil T1X, while android users MIGHT be more inclined to go with the bomakers...


----------



## Caipirina

I need to shout out a big thanks again to the person here who introduced me to rubbing alcohol, q-tips and toothpicks ... This stuff is magic! 

Over the last few days I finally finished up my spreadsheet keeping track of all my TWS (do NOT do that if you are on the hoarder, i mean collector, side, it is something you never want your loved ones to see, being able to calculate the total amount I poured into this hobby so far in an instant ... well, I was actually not far off in my estimate, and divying that up to monthly, I think some people have higher coffee tabs at StarBucks   ) 
Anyways .. I digressed ... So, I took to those buds I had marked as 'defect' ... and low and behold, 3 of them I managed to revive ... including my first pair of Sabbat X12 which I was sure had a dead right bud ... 
Apparently most times I suspected dead batteries or wonky internals ... it was 'just' the contacts ...


----------



## Caipirina

de51red said:


> Another KZ appear in the wild
> 
> 
> 
> ...



APTX Yeah! 

Looks nice! Me want!


----------



## scarfacegt

Hi everyone.

So,i`ve been searching the web for some true wireless iems,but its so many different thougts and reviews.I`ve had the tarah pro before.I need that the earbuds are water resistant and of course comfortable (i have the fiio fh7,fa7 and shure se245 and they are good.But i had the xelento a short time,and they where super comfy).I also want good bass,since when im out walking it will be mainly electronica ( trance ) i will listen too.I first looked at the powerbeats pro,but i have an android phone,and many people have problem with connection and the fitting-And the case is huge.I also have read about the master and dynamic mw07 plus,but they are more expensive and look a little uncomfortable.And not sure about how they sound with music with bass.I dont care if the earbuds sound a little warm and some added bass (but not if the sound is muddy/too dark).I also read aboyt the jabra elite 75t active.They sounds interesting.Any thoughts about the jabras,powerbeats,and the master and comander mw07 plus? They are all waterproof i think.


----------



## scarfacegt

Ps: Ive been using the fa7/fh 7 with the earsone es100,but they are not sweat/waterproof,so im afraid of using them ouside in rain/bad wheater.


----------



## Caipirina

chinmie said:


> there's a new video about it on youtube. i also saw that on online store in my country, but strangely can't find it on AE. that's the first review that I've seen. the only thing that made me hesitant is the battery life.. my mental limit for putchase is now set at minimum 5 hours playtime




one more on this (pun fully intended):
I asked the 1MORE official store on AE about this and they seem to be very clear that they will never get it. So strange. Well, their loss.


----------



## scarfacegt

scarfacegt said:


> Hi everyone.
> 
> So,i`ve been searching the web for some true wireless iems,but its so many different thougts and reviews.I`ve had the tarah pro before.I need that the earbuds are water resistant and of course comfortable (i have the fiio fh7,fa7 and shure se245 and they are good.But i had the xelento a short time,and they where super comfy).I also want good bass,since when im out walking it will be mainly electronica ( trance ) i will listen too.I first looked at the powerbeats pro,but i have an android phone,and many people have problem with connection and the fitting-And the case is huge.I also have read about the master and dynamic mw07 plus,but they are more expensive and look a little uncomfortable.And not sure about how they sound with music with bass.I dont care if the earbuds sound a little warm and some added bass (but not if the sound is muddy/too dark).I also read aboyt the jabra elite 75t active.They sounds interesting.Any thoughts about the jabras,powerbeats,and the master and comander mw07 plus? They are all waterproof i think.




Ps:the jabra elite 75t active and master & dynamic mw07 plus are not in stock.Only the powerbeats are in stock.So i have some time to decide.


----------



## assassin10000

scarfacegt said:


> Hi everyone.
> 
> So,i`ve been searching the web for some true wireless iems,but its so many different thougts and reviews.I`ve had the tarah pro before.I need that the earbuds are water resistant and of course comfortable (i have the fiio fh7,fa7 and shure se245 and they are good.But i had the xelento a short time,and they where super comfy).I also want good bass,since when im out walking it will be mainly electronica ( trance ) i will listen too.I first looked at the powerbeats pro,but i have an android phone,and many people have problem with connection and the fitting-And the case is huge.I also have read about the master and dynamic mw07 plus,but they are more expensive and look a little uncomfortable.And not sure about how they sound with music with bass.I dont care if the earbuds sound a little warm and some added bass (but not if the sound is muddy/too dark).I also read aboyt the jabra elite 75t active.They sounds interesting.Any thoughts about the jabras,powerbeats,and the master and comander mw07 plus? They are all waterproof i think.



Mavin Air-XR. Deep and plentiful bass without being overwhelming. Doesn't bleed into the mids and sound boomy/overly warm. I listen to a lot of vocal trance and other EDM, so good mids and highs are also a must.

Tiny, comfortable and IPX7. I've submerged them completely (not even in my ears) and they keep on going. Even the case is small.

Air-X may also be good, but I haven't heard it and dunno if IPX rated.


----------



## mikp

assassin10000 said:


> Mavin Air-XR. Deep and plentiful bass without being overwhelming. Doesn't bleed into the mids and sound boomy/overly warm. I listen to a lot of vocal trance and other EDM, so good mids and highs are also a must.
> 
> Tiny, comfortable and IPX7. I've submerged them completely (not even in my ears) and they keep on going. Even the case is small.
> 
> Air-X may also be good, but I haven't heard it and dunno if IPX rated.



I imported air-x from Taiwan when they first shipped, and until now not found a reason to change. I did contact mavin and they are planning a anc version, but who knows. I do have the jabra 65 for hikes etc, always used in ambient mode.

So still looking for an all in one solution, mavins sound quality, apt-x (hd), ambient, all controls, ipx, anc etc.


----------



## scarfacegt

assassin10000 said:


> Mavin Air-XR. Deep and plentiful bass without being overwhelming. Doesn't bleed into the mids and sound boomy/overly warm. I listen to a lot of vocal trance and other EDM, so good mids and highs are also a must.
> 
> Tiny, comfortable and IPX7. I've submerged them completely (not even in my ears) and they keep on going. Even the case is small.
> 
> Air-X may also be good, but I haven't heard it and dunno if IPX rated.



Tnx for reply  They look interesting,but i cant buy them here in norway  I want to buy earbuds from an norwegian store,so its limited with wireless earbuds.I guess i can only get the most well known brands here,like sennheiser,apple,samsung,jabra,jaybird an so on :/


----------



## tgx78

Gotta thank whoever recommended Haylou GT1 plus as I have been enjoying its sound signature immensely. Very organic and natural tone with really good forward projection for a TWS. I like it more than FIIL T1X and tronsmart spunky beats.


----------



## chinmie

Caipirina said:


> one more on this (pun fully intended):
> I asked the 1MORE official store on AE about this and they seem to be very clear that they will never get it. So strange. Well, their loss.



that's a very FIRM ANSWER


----------



## mikp

scarfacegt said:


> Tnx for reply  They look interesting,but i cant buy them here in norway  I want to buy earbuds from an norwegian store,so its limited with wireless earbuds.I guess i can only get the most well known brands here,like sennheiser,apple,samsung,jabra,jaybird an so on :/



Buy direct from mavin, they send to Norway and are "helpful" marking the package. At least they did for me.


----------



## DigDub

Finally the Sony wf-h800 is released. Essentially a smaller version of the 1000xm3 without anc and physical buttons instead of touch. I don't use the anc on the 1000xm3, so the h800 is good for me. I can also assign the button to control volume, where on the 1000xm3, I had to sacrifice the button for anc toggling as it is always in by default when I take them out of the case.


----------



## chinmie

DigDub said:


> Finally the Sony wf-h800 is released. Essentially a smaller version of the 1000xm3 without anc and physical buttons instead of touch. I don't use the anc on the 1000xm3, so the h800 is good for me. I can also assign the button to control volume, where on the 1000xm3, I had to sacrifice the button for anc toggling as it is always in by default when I take them out of the case.



same sound? how about pricing and IPX rating?


----------



## KarimLeVallois

harpdoc said:


> So far home, car, in nature, and office, which is a three story building with about 100 employees. Perfect thus far. Long range and very low latency.
> 
> It's clear that certain phones do better with certain Bluetooth products and codecs. My LG V50 is a good match for the MW07 Plus using Apt-x. It's a bummer that your phone isn't.



Bloody iPhone! The search continues...


----------



## webvan

tgx78 said:


> Gotta thank whoever recommended Haylou GT1 plus as I have been enjoying its sound signature immensely. Very organic and natural tone with really good forward projection for a TWS. I like it more than FIIL T1X and tronsmart spunky beats.


I hadn't been paying much attention to the Haylou GT1 but I see they have them on Amazon for 30 EUR...tempting. How't the fit ? Do they keep the seal when you move your jaw around ? I'm asking because they look tiny and the box reminds me of the Bomaker box, but "reversed", thanks !


----------



## KarimLeVallois

DigDub said:


> Finally the Sony wf-h800 is released. Essentially a smaller version of the 1000xm3 without anc and physical buttons instead of touch. I don't use the anc on the 1000xm3, so the h800 is good for me. I can also assign the button to control volume, where on the 1000xm3, I had to sacrifice the button for anc toggling as it is always in by default when I take them out of the case.



Very interested on the sound for these!


----------



## Caipirina

tgx78 said:


> Gotta thank whoever recommended Haylou GT1 plus as I have been enjoying its sound signature immensely. Very organic and natural tone with really good forward projection for a TWS. I like it more than FIIL T1X and tronsmart spunky beats.


Dangit ... not only did I have it in my basket, but I even ordered it, then weaseled out and cancelled it .. and now it is out of stock ... ah well, allegedly they get it in again. 
Was once more pretty blown away by the sound of the regular GT1, how a tiny bean like that can sound like this. And soooo pocketable!!!


----------



## Caipirina

chinmie said:


> that's a very FIRM ANSWER



all capitals "NO" .. now I feel bad for even asking


----------



## DigDub

KarimLeVallois said:


> Very interested on the sound for these!


They sound the same as the 1000xm3, very high resolution without harshness.


----------



## DigDub

chinmie said:


> same sound? how about pricing and IPX rating?


Same sound. It's only about $50 Singapore dollars cheaper than the 1p00xm3. There's no official ipx rating, but I guess it should hold up well for rain etc.


----------



## KarimLeVallois

DigDub said:


> They sound the same as the 1000xm3, very high resolution without harshness.



Thanks for replying. How is the bass response? I'm always concerned these little 6mm drivers won't give enough kick for me.


----------



## Odioer

Caipirina said:


> Dangit ... not only did I have it in my basket, but I even ordered it, then weaseled out and cancelled it .. and now it is out of stock ... ah well, allegedly they get it in again.
> Was once more pretty blown away by the sound of the regular GT1, how a tiny bean like that can sound like this. And soooo pocketable!!!


I have been eyeing the gt1 plus too, did you get a response from the store about restocking?


----------



## thimantha (Feb 28, 2020)

tgx78 said:


> Gotta thank whoever recommended Haylou GT1 plus as I have been enjoying its sound signature immensely. Very organic and natural tone with really good forward projection for a TWS. I like it more than FIIL T1X and tronsmart spunky beats.



GT1 Plus is amazing. I had my eyes on them since they released but @DynamicEars's recommendation is what made me actually buy them. I've stopped using all other TWS's I own since I got this pair.


----------



## thimantha

Caipirina said:


> Dangit ... not only did I have it in my basket, but I even ordered it, then weaseled out and cancelled it .. and now it is out of stock ... ah well, allegedly they get it in again.
> Was once more pretty blown away by the sound of the regular GT1, how a tiny bean like that can sound like this. And soooo pocketable!!!



Haha. That's what you get for not believing our recommendations  JK. Hope they restock it again. I need to buy another pair.


----------



## nihontoman

tgx78 said:


> Gotta thank whoever recommended Haylou GT1 plus as I have been enjoying its sound signature immensely. Very organic and natural tone with really good forward projection for a TWS. I like it more than FIIL T1X and tronsmart spunky beats.


where did you get it from? I can't see stock anywhere. they have dissapeared maybe?


----------



## migueneitor

I'm looking for a new pair and these last replies almost made me switch from the T1X to the Haylou GT1 Plus (available in Amazon Spain) until I realized they're micro-USB, and that's a no-go.

Is there really much of a difference between using the T1X on Android vs iOS? I'm using a Pixel 2.


----------



## marcusd

Full review of the 1MORE Stylish True Wireless posted. A lot of features on this one, decent driver.

https://headfonics.com/2020/02/1more-stylish-true-wireless-wireless-weekend/


----------



## DigDub

KarimLeVallois said:


> Thanks for replying. How is the bass response? I'm always concerned these little 6mm drivers won't give enough kick for me.


They can put out a high amount of bass, can use the Connect app to increase the bass too.


----------



## DigDub

Charging case comparison.











On closer listening, the h800 has a bit more mid bass than the 1000xm3. But overall their sound signature is similar.


----------



## DigDub

Double post.


----------



## MLTwee

DigDub said:


> Finally the Sony wf-h800 is released. Essentially a smaller version of the 1000xm3 without anc and physical buttons instead of touch. I don't use the anc on the 1000xm3, so the h800 is good for me. I can also assign the button to control volume, where on the 1000xm3, I had to sacrifice the button for anc toggling as it is always in by default when I take them out of the case.


Do they feature ambient mode/pass through? How's the microphone performance for calls?


----------



## DigDub

MLTwee said:


> Do they feature ambient mode/pass through? How's the microphone performance for calls?


They do not have ambient or pass through mode. I've not managed to try the microphone yet.


----------



## RobinFood (Feb 28, 2020)

Oh no, looks like I am having trouble with amazon for the first time ever.

I ordered the wf-1000xm3 and got a unit with a weird buzzing sound on the right side. I asked for a replacement and sent the unit back less than a week later, and got a perfect replacement.

Now, I just got an email saying they can't refund me the original wf-1000xm3 because the charging case has dirt on it? All I can think of is a few fingerprints....I'm contacting them through email so I don't get my emotions get the best of me over the phone, and waiting for a reply, but I guess Amazon is not the safe-haven for safe online shopping that I thought them to be. I really packed everything perfect, just like I got it.

I am really bummed by this and hope they will make it right, but will seriously consider dealing with them again. Maybe it's time to go back to brick and mortar stores.


----------



## axhng

Caipirina said:


> Dangit ... not only did I have it in my basket, but I even ordered it, then weaseled out and cancelled it .. and now it is out of stock ... ah well, allegedly they get it in again.
> Was once more pretty blown away by the sound of the regular GT1, how a tiny bean like that can sound like this. And soooo pocketable!!!



I wonder if Bartig has gotten his GT1 Plus yet. Based on his review on the Soundpeats TrueDot, it feels to me like it might sound similar to the GT1 plus.

https://www.scarbir.com/tws/soundpeats-truedot-review


----------



## Caipirina (Feb 28, 2020)

Caipirina said:


> Finally something new on AE that tickles my interest: Aptx, Usb-C, no mention on what / how control buttons. Sporty look! And yey, a color I like
> And (allegedly) a 12mm driver !
> Will wait for price drop, this is still asking 'full' price, I see on Alibaba that that sample price is more like 25$ .. and there's a sale coming up end of March anyways.
> Like KZ, the left / right buds are switched in the box, not a biggie though.
> ...


Taking a step back on these for a moment ... very confusing, there is now one other offer on the nearly identical model branded Mifa and similar 50$ish price tag, but that one has no AptX ... puzzling what's going on here ... 


Oh, and I found some reviews on EU amazon for those Mifa X12 .. and those who actually talk about sound quality are rather miffed ... not worth it it seems.


----------



## d3myz

Picked these up today. They look like a clone of the Dyplays. If they even perform decently for $65 they will be a hell of a deal.


----------



## d3myz

RobinFood said:


> Oh no, looks like I am having trouble with amazon for the first time ever.
> 
> I ordered the wf-1000xm3 and got a unit with a weird buzzing sound on the right side. I asked for a replacement and sent the unit back less than a week later, and got a perfect replacement.
> 
> ...



I'd contact them via chat and complain. Every time a seller tries to charge me restocking fees or hasn't refunded me, they've always been great about crediting me. If I call the call center in india doesn't really seem to know how to do anything buy say "i'm sorry" especially when it comes to returning things past their deadline, but the chat people usually just ask for the refund or print me a label etc. Good Luck!


----------



## Caipirina

d3myz said:


> Picked these up today. They look like a clone of the Dyplays. If they even perform decently for $65 they will be a hell of a deal.


Baffled by the amount of 5 star (all shill?) reviews ... 

Mine are still in the mail ... argh ...


----------



## chinmie

d3myz said:


> Picked these up today. They look like a clone of the Dyplays. If they even perform decently for $65 they will be a hell of a deal.



even the Dyplay only resell them, so i bet that's the same product and you'll get the same performance as the Dyplay's. they even have the same bluetooth connection name (BQC35 BT5.0 ANC)


----------



## harpdoc

Caipirina said:


> Baffled by the amount of 5 star (all shill?) reviews ...
> 
> Mine are still in the mail ... argh ...



I love how the Amazon description says three times that the anc is not effective in covering up screams. That's a deal breaker for me!


----------



## voicemaster

harpdoc said:


> I love how the Amazon description says three times that the anc is not effective in covering up screams. That's a deal breaker for me!


Since when ANC cover scream? I thought ANC is only supposed to cancel low frequency? Someone expert on this subject please explain it to me.


----------



## DynamicEars

tgx78 said:


> Gotta thank whoever recommended Haylou GT1 plus as I have been enjoying its sound signature immensely. Very organic and natural tone with really good forward projection for a TWS. I like it more than FIIL T1X and tronsmart spunky beats.





Caipirina said:


> Dangit ... not only did I have it in my basket, but I even ordered it, then weaseled out and cancelled it .. and now it is out of stock ... ah well, allegedly they get it in again.
> Was once more pretty blown away by the sound of the regular GT1, how a tiny bean like that can sound like this. And soooo pocketable!!!



Well I was the one that have this set first among others 1 and half month ago when they were just out, I post here but seems like nobody really care, i dont have so many tws to compare but Im concern about Sound quality since Im living in IEM world for 10 years+
They have great soumdstage and sounded natural and smooth without peaks. Glad that youre like them too




DynamicEars said:


> Anyone tried this new Haylou GT1 plus? not to be confused with GT1 only / Pro / GT2 because this is the newest from haylou with new 7.2 bio cellulose driver  (the other haylou using standard 6mm DD) and Qualcomm Qcc2020 with APTX and cost only $25~ish. Both unit connected to phone directly like QCY T5, not using old master-slave tech. IPX5 rated.
> 
> I'm not an expert in TWS world, but I have QCY T5  and T1c/QS2.
> They sounded very balance, with touch of sub bass and gentle mid bass, a bit forward midrange, but no emphasize on high mids especially 3khz like T5. T5 sounded a bit thin compared to these, and this set have more details and sounded more mature / smoother. And i was surprised to hear the soundstage and imaging from $25 set, wireless.
> ...


----------



## chinmie

harpdoc said:


> I love how the Amazon description says three times that the anc is not effective in covering up screams. That's a deal breaker for me!





voicemaster said:


> Since when ANC cover scream? I thought ANC is only supposed to cancel low frequency? Someone expert on this subject please explain it to me.



yes. if the main goal is to block sudden spikes in sound, it's better to use passive isolation earmuffs, or better yet, the electronic ones like those for gun range. 

ANC is designed to block droning low freq noise.


----------



## KarimLeVallois

d3myz said:


> I'd contact them via chat and complain. Every time a seller tries to charge me restocking fees or hasn't refunded me, they've always been great about crediting me. If I call the call center in india doesn't really seem to know how to do anything buy say "i'm sorry" especially when it comes to returning things past their deadline, but the chat people usually just ask for the refund or print me a label etc. Good Luck!



This is what I always do and if the person on chat is useless, then disconnect, leave it 10 minutes and contact them again. You'll eventually get someone willing to help you out.


----------



## voicemaster (Feb 28, 2020)

chinmie said:


> yes. if the main goal is to block sudden spikes in sound, it's better to use passive isolation earmuffs, or better yet, the electronic ones like those for gun range.
> 
> ANC is designed to block droning low freq noise.


Then there is alot of people misunderstand the real use of ANC thinking that it will blocked out ALL noise completely. Problem is, later they will buy stuff and think the ANC suck ass and leave bad review while the truth is the ANC doing its job properly. This happened in 1more ANC case which alot of people complained that the ANC suck which is not true at all. Most of them said I can still hear people talking and so on which is more of mid to high frequency.


----------



## Caipirina

DynamicEars said:


> Well I was the one that have this set first among others 1 and half month ago when they were just out, I post here but seems like nobody really care, i dont have so many tws to compare but Im concern about Sound quality since Im living in IEM world for 10 years+
> They have great soumdstage and sounded natural and smooth without peaks. Glad that youre like them too


Totally did not see that post back in January .. or I saw it and was like 'eh, don't need aptx' ... things change


----------



## KarimLeVallois

voicemaster said:


> Then there is alot of people misunderstand the real use of ANC thinking that it will blocked out ALL noise completely. Problem is, later they will buy stuff and think the ANC suck ass and leave bad review while the truth is the ANC doing its job properly. This happened in 1more ANC case which alot of people complained that the ANC suck which is not true at all. Most of them said I can still hear people talking and so on which is more of mid to high frequency.



Yeah, consumers need to be educated about how effective ANC actually is, I think people expect miracles.


----------



## Luke Skywalker

Not sure if this is relevant... just in case anyone is considering the EarStudio ES100 MK2...

I did a side by side comparison, playing the same Tidal song from my HiBy R6 Pro via LDAC and then from my iPhone 7 via AAC of course, with my JH Audio IEM’s plugged into the ES100 (non balanced)

I’ve heard mixed stories about whether Aptx is better than AAC.   But I can tell you one thing... LDAC sounds wayyyy better than AAC to my novice ears

in fact I had trouble discerning a difference between ES100 LDAC and directly plugging into the R6

hopefully that’s interesting


----------



## Odioer (Feb 28, 2020)

DynamicEars said:


> Well I was the one that have this set first among others 1 and half month ago when they were just out, I post here but seems like nobody really care, i dont have so many tws to compare but Im concern about Sound quality since Im living in IEM world for 10 years+
> They have great soumdstage and sounded natural and smooth without peaks. Glad that youre like them too


Well Ok, so I couldn't resist all the goodness and hold the urge for a new toy any longer and with the sudden disappearance from AliExpress I just fomo'd on finding a listing. I ordered the GT1 plus on banggood for $26 Shipped.

Link for interested: https://m.banggood.in/Haylou-GT1-Pl...ic-Headphone-p-1623984.html?rmmds=orderdetail

Edit: ordered the BLONs and qkz vk4 too. Let's see what this hype is all about.


----------



## wksoh (Feb 28, 2020)

Fiil T1 (no BT5.0) $29 on Amazon today. After clipping $10 coupon.

It's not T1X. 
https://www.amazon.com/Wireless-Ear..._s_a_1_10?keywords=T1x&qid=1582918541&sr=8-10


----------



## axhng

DynamicEars said:


> Well I was the one that have this set first among others 1 and half month ago when they were just out, I post here but seems like nobody really care, i dont have so many tws to compare but Im concern about Sound quality since Im living in IEM world for 10 years+
> They have great soumdstage and sounded natural and smooth without peaks. Glad that youre like them too



I am another one of those that saw your post and decided to gave it a go. Had it for about 20 days now, and it still amazes me sometimes with how good it is. I also received the QCY T5 around 10 days ago, and my impressions of them are the same as yours compared to the GT1 Plus. Really enjoyed using them.


----------



## AndroidVageta

Once I paired my now ~$60 CCA C16 8-driver per side IEM with some $20 Amazon Chinese Bluetooth cable every wireless earbud I've heard or own has been tossed to the side. Sony WF-1000XM3, Jabra 75t, Anker Libery Pro 2 and Air 2, Bose, Echo Buds, Skullcandy, JBL, you name it I've tried it or something better. All of time and testing and money just to end up with an IEM I already owned combined with a $20 Chinese cable. Oh not to mention that this setup not only sounds incredible but it also gets LOUDER than any of the buds mentioned above. 

So basically for $80 anyone can have something that's better than, well, anything I've tried.


----------



## tgx78

AndroidVageta said:


> Once I paired my now ~$60 CCA C16 8-driver per side IEM with some $20 Amazon Chinese Bluetooth cable every wireless earbud I've heard or own has been tossed to the side. Sony WF-1000XM3, Jabra 75t, Anker Libery Pro 2 and Air 2, Bose, Echo Buds, Skullcandy, JBL, you name it I've tried it or something better. All of time and testing and money just to end up with an IEM I already owned combined with a $20 Chinese cable. Oh not to mention that this setup not only sounds incredible but it also gets LOUDER than any of the buds mentioned above.
> 
> So basically for $80 anyone can have something that's better than, well, anything I've tried.



which cable are you talking about? I also have the cca c16 and interested in getting it.


----------



## nihontoman

AndroidVageta said:


> Once I paired my now ~$60 CCA C16 8-driver per side IEM with some $20 Amazon Chinese Bluetooth cable every wireless earbud I've heard or own has been tossed to the side. Sony WF-1000XM3, Jabra 75t, Anker Libery Pro 2 and Air 2, Bose, Echo Buds, Skullcandy, JBL, you name it I've tried it or something better. All of time and testing and money just to end up with an IEM I already owned combined with a $20 Chinese cable. Oh not to mention that this setup not only sounds incredible but it also gets LOUDER than any of the buds mentioned above.
> 
> So basically for $80 anyone can have something that's better than, well, anything I've tried.


what cable?


----------



## AndroidVageta (Feb 28, 2020)

tgx78 said:


> which cable are you talking about? I also have the cca c16 and interested in getting it.



If you have the CCA C16 you own it to yourself to get the cable linked below. They sound really good.



nihontoman said:


> what cable?



I ordered this according to my order history:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07Z1BMMCZ/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o07_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Though I received something that looked more along the lines of this (with an inline remote):

https://www.amazon.com/****-Upgrade...le+2+pin&qid=1582940077&s=electronics&sr=1-10

Mine says "TRN" on it and came in a TRN branded box as well so the listing certainly doesn't match but $25 seems to be a pretty cheap price for the TRN cable so give it a try and hope you get the same I did? It has AptX and AptX HD too!

So I'd say order from the first link and see if you get the same thing I did.

Either way mine looks like the one in the second link and is TRN and sounds pretttttty damn good and for the CCA C16 it has PLENTY of power.


----------



## gocam

AndroidVageta said:


> If you have the CCA C16 you own it to yourself to get the cable linked below. They sound really good.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Here is the one I am going to try - it has AptxHD apparently and uses the QCC3034 chipset, with BT 5.0 support - will keep you posted. I intend trying with my Magaosi MGS-401s - I've previously used those with the EarStudio and they sound fantastic, but the form factor with regular cables is a little meh. So, will see how below goes - it quotes 10 hrs of battery

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07YXXXJQQ/

It looks like it's the same one as this : https://penonaudio.com/bqeyz-z3-bluetooth-cable.html and there is some discussion of the variants here : https://www.head-fi.org/threads/bqeyz-z3-bluetooth-cable.911673/


----------



## SoundChoice

tgx78 said:


> Gotta thank whoever recommended Haylou GT1 plus as I have been enjoying its sound signature immensely. Very organic and natural tone with really good forward projection for a TWS. I like it more than FIIL T1X and tronsmart spunky beats.



i have this also, but connecting one side disconnects the other. Tried holding for 10 seconds to reset GT1, but I must be doing it wrong.Ideas?


----------



## axhng

SoundChoice said:


> i have this also, but connecting one side disconnects the other. Tried holding for 10 seconds to reset GT1, but I must be doing it wrong.Ideas?




maybe this video might help?


----------



## srinivasvignesh

harpdoc said:


> Let me say up front that a comparison between a $150 and a $300 set of TWS buds is not fair.  But here goes anyway. Keep in mind, I'm using an Android phone, which means I'm using AAC with Galaxy Buds+ and Apt-x with M&D WM07 Plus.
> 1. The sound quality of the WM07 Plus+ is clearly superior. Better balanced, more depth, better imaging, more 3D. The Buds+ grew on me over the past week. Perhaps burn-in, probably mostly my brain adjusting to them. But really no comparison. Looking forward to the M&D's burning in.
> 2. The case is lighter and smaller for the buds, and i really appreciate the wireless charging. However, it won't close with foam tips. The M&D case closes with foam tips.
> 3. I prefer the physical buttons of the M&D's to the touch controls of the Buds, but both are intuitive and work well. I still can't put the Buds in my ears without activating something accidentally.
> ...



Agree with your views. In case you have a Samsung phone, please try to turn on Dolby Atmos especially for movies and such. Adds a much more holographic sound and fun sound. I am enjoying NetFlix/ Dobly Atmos setting/Note 10+/MW07+. For music, I do turn Dolby off.


----------



## assassin10000

Hmmm. Wonder how these sound compared to the x12 pro. They have qi wireless charging, touch controls and 'graphene' diaphragm.

https://m.aliexpress.com/item/33035033667.html


----------



## assassin10000

Caipirina said:


> I need to shout out a big thanks again to the person here who introduced me to rubbing alcohol, q-tips and toothpicks ... This stuff is magic!
> 
> Over the last few days I finally finished up my spreadsheet keeping track of all my TWS (do NOT do that if you are on the hoarder, i mean collector, side, it is something you never want your loved ones to see, being able to calculate the total amount I poured into this hobby so far in an instant ... well, I was actually not far off in my estimate, and divying that up to monthly, I think some people have higher coffee tabs at StarBucks   )
> Anyways .. I digressed ... So, I took to those buds I had marked as 'defect' ... and low and behold, 3 of them I managed to revive ... including my first pair of Sabbat X12 which I was sure had a dead right bud ...
> Apparently most times I suspected dead batteries or wonky internals ... it was 'just' the contacts ...



Sweet! Glad it's working on more than just your bose tws... especially given how large your collection is lol.


----------



## scarfacegt

So,i have been looking at the jabra elite active,powerbeats and master & dynamics and some other earbuds.I wasnt going to buy now,because they where not in stock in the web sites,exept the powerbeats.But,i suddenly found an jabra elite active 75t in stock in an nearby electronic shop just 1,5 hour drive away.So yesterday i clicked "click an collect",and my wife and my mother took an trip to do some shopping and to pick up the jabras.Tested them a little bit before i went to bed.My first impressions of these after just a short testing is that they are very comfortable and lightweigt.The sound was a little mixed feeling.They sounded a little artificial and boomy.On some songs with bass they sounded good,and on some bassy songs,not that great.But this is after a short testing.And also i have to say,that my latest iems are fiio fh7,fa7 and shure se215.I have also ovned and tested the shure se530,shure 846,beyerdynamic xeleneto and also jaybird tarah pro.But with high quality iems,i guess i have been a little spoiled.I also own the audeze mobius and beyerdynamic amiron home.What i liked,was that i walked around in the house an listening to music,and i almost couldnt feel the jabras.It was almost like having noting in the ear or on the head,but the music was there.So having true wireless earbuds is really comfortable and easy to use an convinent.Im going to test them some more today.Hopefully i will get more satisfyed with the sound after an while


----------



## Caipirina (Feb 29, 2020)

assassin10000 said:


> Hmmm. Wonder how these sound compared to the x12 pro. They have qi wireless charging, touch controls and 'graphene' diaphragm.
> 
> https://m.aliexpress.com/item/33035033667.html


Interesting! Always on the lookout for new semi in ears ...

what puzzles me here is that 'why have I never seen these before?' ... obviously they have been around for a bit (review from Nigeria from 11/19) ... and one of my 'daily' search strings is "bluetooth TWS", yet they have never shown up!
My guess is that there is some level of favoritism going on in AE's search voodoo .. like sellers can pay extra to show up better, while those who don't pay for the extra feature end up with only 26 likes in 3 months ..

I wonder if these are the same? https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000571480199.html

no mention of graphene .. some pics show a microphone hole ... hmmm


----------



## chinmie

harpdoc said:


> Let me say up front that a comparison between a $150 and a $300 set of TWS buds is not fair.  But here goes anyway. Keep in mind, I'm using an Android phone, which means I'm using AAC with Galaxy Buds+ and Apt-x with M&D WM07 Plus.
> 1. The sound quality of the WM07 Plus+ is clearly superior. Better balanced, more depth, better imaging, more 3D. The Buds+ grew on me over the past week. Perhaps burn-in, probably mostly my brain adjusting to them. But really no comparison. Looking forward to the M&D's burning in.
> 2. The case is lighter and smaller for the buds, and i really appreciate the wireless charging. However, it won't close with foam tips. The M&D case closes with foam tips.
> 3. I prefer the physical buttons of the M&D's to the touch controls of the Buds, but both are intuitive and work well. I still can't put the Buds in my ears without activating something accidentally.
> ...





srinivasvignesh said:


> Agree with your views. In case you have a Samsung phone, please try to turn on Dolby Atmos especially for movies and such. Adds a much more holographic sound and fun sound. I am enjoying NetFlix/ Dobly Atmos setting/Note 10+/MW07+. For music, I do turn Dolby off.



Agree about the Dolby atmos. I rarely even EQ on most of my situations, but i really like the Dolby sound in most occasions. With music i mostly turn it off, but i also turn it on from time to time to spice it up.


----------



## assassin10000

Caipirina said:


> Interesting! Always on the lookout for new semi in ears ...
> 
> what puzzles me here is that 'why have I never seen these before?' ... obviously they have been around for a bit (review from Nigeria from 11/19) ... and one of my 'daily' search strings is "bluetooth TWS", yet they have never shown up!
> My guess is that there is some level of favoritism going on in AE's search voodoo .. like sellers can pay extra to show up better, while those who don't pay for the extra feature end up with only 26 likes in 3 months ..



I think it's a keyword issue. I was searching for 'qi tws' iirc.


Also came across these, maybe smaller than your trop weilin?
https://m.aliexpress.com/item/4000533295655.html


----------



## GeeD

marcusd said:


> Full review of the 1MORE Stylish True Wireless posted. A lot of features on this one, decent driver.


...but nothing about sound quality, is that somewhere else?

Funnily enough I found another, what seems to be rather late review, at soundguys
https://www.soundguys.com/1more-stylish-true-wireless-review-23314/
They have some nice graphs and such but I must admit I really didn't agree with their findings - 1More Stylish ...base heavy?? ...not my set.  Weird?


----------



## axhng

Caipirina said:


> Interesting! Always on the lookout for new semi in ears ...
> 
> what puzzles me here is that 'why have I never seen these before?' ... obviously they have been around for a bit (review from Nigeria from 11/19) ... and one of my 'daily' search strings is "bluetooth TWS", yet they have never shown up!
> My guess is that there is some level of favoritism going on in AE's search voodoo .. like sellers can pay extra to show up better, while those who don't pay for the extra feature end up with only 26 likes in 3 months ..
> ...



Talking about semi in-ears, not sure if anyone here has tried the Mifo O2 here. I saw a seller clearing them locally last year and thought it would be nice to have a pair of semi in-ear TWS around even though I generally prefer in-ear. Love its design, but no love for how it sounds at all. Maybe I have a defective set of what, because i've seen a review saying they had good clarity and mid range, but no matter how i adjust the fit it just doesn't sound nice to me.  Not to mention one side of the earbuds came apart within a week. So definitely would not recommend them.

I didn't even think they were worth the effort to get a replacement from the seller and selling it off. I feel bad giving them away too since they don't sound that nice to me. So just glued the shell back together and kept it at home for like watching youtube/podcasts (or anything that doesn't involve music). Sometimes I don't want to disturb other folks at home, but still want to hear dialogue, so these works well for those things I guess... ¯\_(ツ)_/¯


----------



## scarfacegt (Feb 29, 2020)

Tried some podcast listening with the jabra elite active 75t.The sound was clinical and a little fatigue.But could be the recording of the podcast.


----------



## aspirina750

If you have a Samsung device I recommend setting a Routine that turns ON ATMOS when any video APP is used... saves much time.


----------



## jasonb

So has anyone updated the firmware and messed with the Lypertek app for the Lypertek Tevi? I have a Tevi coming next week and I'm just a bit curious.

I know people are saying the sound changes with the update. Im worried that id do the update and end up liking them more with the original firmware. Is there an EQ setting in the app that makes them sound the same as the original firmware? Is the app working and worth using?


----------



## Caipirina

assassin10000 said:


> I think it's a keyword issue. I was searching for 'qi tws' iirc.
> 
> 
> Also came across these, maybe smaller than your trop weilin?
> https://m.aliexpress.com/item/4000533295655.html


Actually, I do have a very similar set, but that one never worked (one side hissed and got noticeably hot after only a few minutes -> dispute -> full refund) and even those are a tiny bit bigger than the trop weiling (with rubber cover / tips removed)


----------



## Peddler

jasonb said:


> So has anyone updated the firmware and messed with the Lypertek app for the Lypertek Tevi? I have a Tevi coming next week and I'm just a bit curious.
> 
> I know people are saying the sound changes with the update. Im worried that id do the update and end up liking them more with the original firmware. Is there an EQ setting in the app that makes them sound the same as the original firmware? Is the app working and worth using?


Lypertek states that resetting the eq on updated Tevi's returns them to the stock sound but I personally think that the new 'stock sound' definitely sounds different than the original stock sound. Personally I prefer the new sound so no worries there. I don't know if it's possible to restore the original sound profile by their software update process. 

I hope this helps.


----------



## jasonb

Peddler said:


> Lypertek states that resetting the eq on updated Tevi's returns them to the stock sound but I personally think that the new 'stock sound' definitely sounds different than the original stock sound. Personally I prefer the new sound so no worries there. I don't know if it's possible to restore the original sound profile by their software update process.
> 
> I hope this helps.



Thanks. How is the app? Is there just presets or is there an adjustable graphic EQ?


----------



## Caipirina

axhng said:


> Talking about semi in-ears, not sure if anyone here has tried the Mifo O2 here. I saw a seller clearing them locally last year and thought it would be nice to have a pair of semi in-ear TWS around even though I generally prefer in-ear. Love its design, but no love for how it sounds at all. Maybe I have a defective set of what, because i've seen a review saying they had good clarity and mid range, but no matter how i adjust the fit it just doesn't sound nice to me.  Not to mention one side of the earbuds came apart within a week. So definitely would not recommend them.
> 
> I didn't even think they were worth the effort to get a replacement from the seller and selling it off. I feel bad giving them away too since they don't sound that nice to me. So just glued the shell back together and kept it at home for like watching youtube/podcasts (or anything that doesn't involve music). Sometimes I don't want to disturb other folks at home, but still want to hear dialogue, so these works well for those things I guess... ¯\_(ツ)_/¯


They could find a new home in my collection  they can play with other TWS all day. 

Don't think I will head to SG anytime soon (thank you COVID), but keep that in mind that i'd be interested just for hoarding's sake.


----------



## Caipirina (Feb 29, 2020)

I am still kinda curious about those Soundcore Anker Liberty 2 that were such a fuzz / buzz item here for a while ... I lost track of what the gist was ... like 'sounds great, unless you get a pair with terrible noisefloor' ? or was it the fit?

Anyways, seeing them for 95$ on AE .. if memory serves they were like 149? 129? sometimes on amazon for 79?




If someone was interested in them, is there a certain batch number to look for?

(edit: just realizing that there is a Pro model with Knowles BA .. i guess THAT's the one everyone went gaga over ... )


----------



## marcusd

GeeD said:


> ...but nothing about sound quality, is that somewhere else?
> 
> Funnily enough I found another, what seems to be rather late review, at soundguys
> https://www.soundguys.com/1more-stylish-true-wireless-review-23314/
> They have some nice graphs and such but I must admit I really didn't agree with their findings - 1More Stylish ...base heavy?? ...not my set.  Weird?



its on page 2


----------



## Odioer

Odioer said:


> Well Ok, so I couldn't resist all the goodness and hold the urge for a new toy any longer and with the sudden disappearance from AliExpress I just fomo'd on finding a listing. I ordered the GT1 plus on banggood for $26 Shipped.
> 
> Link for interested: https://m.banggood.in/Haylou-GT1-Pl...ic-Headphone-p-1623984.html?rmmds=orderdetail
> 
> Edit: ordered the BLONs and qkz vk4 too. Let's see what this hype is all about.


BTW GT1 PLUS is available on Ali again: https://m.aliexpress.com/item/40004...ail&spm=a2g0n.store_home.hotSpots_884221468.0


----------



## Caipirina

Odioer said:


> BTW GT1 PLUS is available on Ali again: https://m.aliexpress.com/item/40004...ail&spm=a2g0n.store_home.hotSpots_884221468.0


Still getting ‘out of stock’ ... weird


----------



## AndroidVageta

Caipirina said:


> (edit: just realizing that there is a Pro model with Knowles BA .. i guess THAT's the one everyone went gaga over ... )



Yeah it's the Pro's that are the good ones. Honestly, so far, the best wireless bud I've owned/heard. I've owned a lot too, especially the big boys like Sony, Jabra, Samsung, Apple, JBL, Amazon, etc. Name it I swear I've probably owned it. The Pro's are better than them all. 

Also got a pair for sale as well!


----------



## AndroidVageta

gocam said:


> Here is the one I am going to try



Have your ordered this yet? Interested for sure...might pick one up anyways, not a fan of the design for mine honestly.


----------



## Odioer

Caipirina said:


> Still getting ‘out of stock’ ... weird


Got removed from my cart too. Apparently short stock. Glad I ordered from banggood they shipped the same day. You can try that it's still available there.


----------



## axhng

Caipirina said:


> They could find a new home in my collection  they can play with other TWS all day.
> 
> Don't think I will head to SG anytime soon (thank you COVID), but keep that in mind that i'd be interested just for hoarding's sake.



Sure thing! It would be nice to hear someone else's thoughts on it too, cause maybe it's just my ears are weirdly shaped and making it sound weird. If they sounded like the Vido does, I would probably enjoy them way more. I know that the Vido isn't really semi in-ear but it's the same "not in-ear" type in my books. haha.  Anyway nowadays I'm using the QCY T5 more as the video watching pair of earbuds with my computer, since it works well with music too.  I think I still have the original packaging for them around too since they were too nice to just throw away.


----------



## scarfacegt

Tested the jabras outside walking in extremly windy and snowy weather.I could hear some wind,but they isolate well. What suprised me is that i managed to change Song,volume,and pause the music with my gloves on and the hat and hoody on.I just pushed outside the hood,where i knew the earbuds where. Super glad its an button and not touch control.These will be great for outdoor use in good and bad wheater.Im also liking the sound a little bit better now after testing them some more today.


----------



## Caipirina

AndroidVageta said:


> Yeah it's the Pro's that are the good ones.
> 
> Also got a pair for sale as well!


Shipping cost from your location to Sri Lanka might be a deal breaker in this case


----------



## AndroidVageta

scarfacegt said:


> Im also liking the sound a little bit better now after testing them some more today.



I found them to be way too bassy. Use the app to adjust the EQ and drop the bass and they'll brighten up and not be as muddy. I seem to recall (it's been a couple months since my last pair) that I had to drop the bass to like -5 or so, pretty significantly.



Caipirina said:


> Shipping cost from your location to Sri Lanka might be a deal breaker in this case



Aye! Regardless they are still the best wireless bud I've heard. The case is nice as well with it's wireless charging and USB C connectivity. 

I admit I haven't owned many off brand buds though so there might be better out there in this thread, I can't say. I know that just because brand isn't well known or Chinese doesn't mean they still can't make some very impressive and feature packed products. However, with the Liberty Pro 2 versus the likes of the Sony WF-1000XM3. Jabra 75t, AirPod/AirPod Pros, Galaxy Buds, Echo Buds, Liberty Air 2, Bose Soundsport, etc they're certainly the best.


----------



## Luke Skywalker

srinivasvignesh said:


> Agree with your views. In case you have a Samsung phone, please try to turn on Dolby Atmos especially for movies and such. Adds a much more holographic sound and fun sound. I am enjoying NetFlix/ Dobly Atmos setting/Note 10+/MW07+. For music, I do turn Dolby off.


Those sound awesome!  I wish they had LDAC though... I've heard the noise cancellation isn't quite as good as the Sony WF-1000XM3 though.


----------



## nihontoman

Just pulled the trigger on the Alien Secret QCC010. has a pretty good review on scarbir and at this moment, is 3/5 price of the Bomaker sifi, which I was also looking at, but Alien has better battery life, type c and wireless charger. I'm pretty sure the sound quality should be almost as good as the bomakers, considering the fact that they also have a graphene driver...


----------



## GeeD

Doh! ...there is a page 2 ...ok so who pinched my glasses, lol

Mind you I didn't follow half of those words ...what does sounds slower mean?   

Got to say I disagree about the Tevi, I had those and thought the stylish was better on vocal detail and the Tevi a touch shrill and tiring at the top end.  And they had a dreadful low level hiss that was always there, the 1More stylish and ANC are dead silent between tracks.  My tevi went straight back, but each to their own.

So if the stylish does not give a flat audiophile response curve (which is what I thought everyone was saying when the BT-I BT 5.0 came out towards the end of last year) what would you, or others, recommend.  (and no, not Tevi and not Fiil T1 X please, I had/have them).

cheers


----------



## voicemaster

GeeD said:


> Doh! ...there is a page 2 ...ok so who pinched my glasses, lol
> 
> Mind you I didn't follow half of those words ...what does sounds slower mean?
> 
> ...


Maybe try mifo 07?


----------



## TheLionelHutz

Hey, guys. Long time listener, first time caller. I've been following this thread since around page 1000 but just joined today.

Does anyone have the TRN T200s? I received a pair today (my 16th pair of TWS I've tried since Christmas - I don't have a problem!). I love almost everything about them - comfortable and the controls aren't as wacky as some of the reviews suggest. Overall great sound (not the best, to me that's the Nuarl N6), but mine are crazy sibilant. I'm seeing mixed reviews - some say no sibilance, some say it's there. Does anyone have a pair that are not? I'm wondering if I got a bum pair.  I had to drop the 8-16k in EQ to almost zero to trim it, which isn't ideal. I'd love it if I might be able to gamble for a pair that aren't like this.  Anyone?


----------



## HiFlight

TheLionelHutz said:


> Hey, guys. Long time listener, first time caller. I've been following this thread since around page 1000 but just joined today.
> 
> Does anyone have the TRN T200s? I received a pair today (my 16th pair of TWS I've tried since Christmas - I don't have a problem!). I love almost everything about them - comfortable and the controls aren't as wacky as some of the reviews suggest. Overall great sound (not the best, to me that's the Nuarl N6), but mine are crazy sibilant. I'm seeing mixed reviews - some say no sibilance, some say it's there. Does anyone have a pair that are not? I'm wondering if I got a bum pair.  I had to drop the 8-16k in EQ to almost zero to trim it, which isn't ideal. I'd love it if I might be able to gamble for a pair that aren't like this.  Anyone?


I had the T200 for a short time but the sibilance totally spoiled the listening experience for me so I gifted them to a friend who is not particularly critical of IEM flaws.


----------



## TheLionelHutz

HiFlight said:


> I had the T200 for a short time but the sibilance totally spoiled the listening experience for me so I gifted them to a friend who is not particularly critical of IEM flaws.


Well nuts. They're very comfortable!


----------



## SoundChoice

Odioer said:


> Got removed from my cart too. Apparently short stock. Glad I ordered from banggood they shipped the same day. You can try that it's still available there.


Is that a reputable and safe place to buy?


----------



## Odioer (Mar 1, 2020)

SoundChoice said:


> Is that a reputable and safe place to buy?


I've ordered from them before, they're legit.
Offers shipping insurance & customs recovery insurance for pennies too, just a little pricier than ali though makes sense as they have their own warehouses & stocks unlike ali being more like a marketplace i guess. Hope it helps


----------



## GeeD

voicemaster said:


> Maybe try mifo 07?


Thanks VM I've read a lot about the Mifo 07 - but with only a 3020 chip and no ANC, at that price I'd spend not a lot more and get the Sony (except the Sony are ugly)


----------



## nihontoman

I've heard the TRN t200 and I liked the sound very much. there was some white noise and there was some sibilance, but I didn't find it to be a deal breaker. for me the amount of sibilance and harshness was manageable mostly, but I tend to like bruggter tuning so maybe it's just a matter of taste....


----------



## BigZ12 (Mar 1, 2020)

jasonb said:


> So has anyone updated the firmware and messed with the Lypertek app for the Lypertek Tevi? I have a Tevi coming next week and I'm just a bit curious.
> 
> I know people are saying the sound changes with the update. Im worried that id do the update and end up liking them more with the original firmware. Is there an EQ setting in the app that makes them sound the same as the original firmware? Is the app working and worth using?


Did you see my posts?
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/goi...e-we-there-yet.861024/page-1335#post-15475236
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/goi...e-we-there-yet.861024/page-1341#post-15483114
If you get the same packaging as I did, and you have no brackets "around" LYPERTEK TEVI - L/R in bluetooth setting, you don't need to update!
App connection works out of the box, and the new sound signature is already there.

Edit: The EQ in the app have both presets and a customizable setting. Works well, but I just use the "Lypertek Signature" sound you get when pressing reset in the EQ settings.
I've loved my Tevis before, but the new ones I got are world class! I only miss transparent mode, but otherwise they're perfect!


----------



## Caipirina (Mar 1, 2020)

Anyone else seen these "Makibes" and thought "hey, they look EXACTLY like the Blitzwolf FYE5"?

At least the shell and case design (which I both like very much!) seem to be the same, with differences being a touch panel instead of click button, IPX from 6 -> 7 and an Airoha 1526P Chip, which frankly I have no idea if that means better or worse (support AAC-LC means it does AAC?) ... Really like how pocketable the BW FYE5 is ...


----------



## Caipirina

nihontoman said:


> Just pulled the trigger on the Alien Secret QCC010. has a pretty good review on scarbir and at this moment, is 3/5 price of the Bomaker sifi, which I was also looking at, but Alien has better battery life, type c and wireless charger. I'm pretty sure the sound quality should be almost as good as the bomakers, considering the fact that they also have a graphene driver...


It’s funny that what initially attracted me to them was that cool dual-tone paint job on the white version. Somehow reminds me of Boba Fett 

Alas, seems this does not really exist, customer pics show that the white one is all white and looks terribly cheap with LEDs on!




But yes, of course I can take black and the review on Scarbir is promising. Maybe I wait for a sale


----------



## Caipirina (Mar 1, 2020)

Here is another ‘new’ AptX-Qi-usbC bud with single click for volume control. Comes in 4 color combos. No reviews yet ...  hmmm.


As much as I like orange... I think I wait either for anniversary sale or reviews ...


----------



## clerkpalmer

The Verge remarked about the 1more ANC bass problem with ANC on:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.th...-canceling-earbuds-price-performance-features

Too bad they haven't fixed this yet as its been nearly a month. If they could get the sq closer to non ANC, they would have a winner.


----------



## clerkpalmer

With this new platform I don't get all the emails anymore.  Anything new worth trying? Seems like a slow year for TWS.


----------



## jasonb

BigZ12 said:


> Did you see my posts?
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/goi...e-we-there-yet.861024/page-1335#post-15475236
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/goi...e-we-there-yet.861024/page-1341#post-15483114
> If you get the same packaging as I did, and you have no brackets "around" LYPERTEK TEVI - L/R in bluetooth setting, you don't need to update!
> ...



So the new ones already have the update applied to them. I kind of wanted to see the before and after. Hopefully I like the new sound. I ordered directly from Lypertek and should get them in the mail on Tuesday.


----------



## TheLionelHutz

nihontoman said:


> I've heard the TRN t200 and I liked the sound very much. there was some white noise and there was some sibilance, but I didn't find it to be a deal breaker. for me the amount of sibilance and harshness was manageable mostly, but I tend to like bruggter tuning so maybe it's just a matter of taste....


I do like the sound generally. It's a balanced response capable of good bass (although not very detailed) and very clear, detailed upper-mid to high. I like dual or hybrid designs (I love my Phaiser Fusion Ones, and I got in on the Drop for the TFZ X3 last week), and the signature on these is what I was hoping for (although the soundstage is surprisingly narrow). And they are the most comfortable buds I've had except for the Advanced Sound X+. But the sibilance on mine, at least, is very distracting and fatiguing.  I might exchange them and see if a new pair does better.


----------



## voicemaster

clerkpalmer said:


> The Verge remarked about the 1more ANC bass problem with ANC on:
> 
> https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.th...-canceling-earbuds-price-performance-features
> 
> Too bad they haven't fixed this yet as its been nearly a month. If they could get the sq closer to non ANC, they would have a winner.


It sounded fine when you actually use it in a noisy environment like on the airplane or train. It sounded like crap when you were using the ANC when the surrounding is quiet. Also, when turning on the ANC from the earbuds, it will go to the highest ANC setting first instead of the mid level. As I've said before, they just need to tweak the EQ when the ANC is engaged.


----------



## clerkpalmer

voicemaster said:


> It sounded fine when you actually use it in a noisy environment like on the airplane or train. It sounded like crap when you were using the ANC when the surrounding is quiet. Also, when turning on the ANC from the earbuds, it will go to the highest ANC setting first instead of the mid level. As I've said before, they just need to tweak the EQ when the ANC is engaged.


Agreed. Did you keep yours or return them?


----------



## martiniCZ

The new KZ S2 start price for $ 70? Pretty sad  ...
https://hifigo.com/collections/true...-1-ba-and-bluetooth-5-0-high-fidelity-earbuds


----------



## clerkpalmer

martiniCZ said:


> The new KZ S2 start price for $ 70? Pretty sad  ...
> https://hifigo.com/collections/true...-1-ba-and-bluetooth-5-0-high-fidelity-earbuds


I signed up for notifications of release and didn't get anything. Weird. I don't trust KZ tws anymore anyway. Until they work out the connection issues they're dead to me. I'll wait for reviews.


----------



## Caipirina

clerkpalmer said:


> I signed up for notifications of release and didn't get anything. Weird. I don't trust KZ tws anymore anyway. Until they work out the connection issues they're dead to me. I'll wait for reviews.


Not buying this at 70 either ...


----------



## TheLionelHutz

Rats, just saw the TFZ Z3 Drop didn't fund...


----------



## Trilis

Hey guys, 
I want to switch from my Tranya T5 to something better. Was thinking of Nuarl N6 Pro or Lypertek TEVI. Is nuarl worth the money over lypertek?
Or there is other options I missed? Thanks guys for your opinions in advance


----------



## BigZ12

jasonb said:


> So the new ones already have the update applied to them. I kind of wanted to see the before and after. Hopefully I like the new sound. I ordered directly from Lypertek and should get them in the mail on Tuesday.


I'm excited to hear what you think when you receive them! Hope you'll get the "new" (updated) version.


----------



## nihontoman

Caipirina said:


> It’s funny that what initially attracted me to them was that cool dual-tone paint job on the white version. Somehow reminds me of Boba Fett
> 
> Alas, seems this does not really exist, customer pics show that the white one is all white and looks terribly cheap with LEDs on!
> 
> ...


ugh, had I known these are so ugly, I'd go for the black version :/ Hope the new stock looks


----------



## jasonb

BigZ12 said:


> I'm excited to hear what you think when you receive them! Hope you'll get the "new" (updated) version.



If they sound somewhat similar to the Galaxy Buds, but actually have treble detail that doesn't sound like artificial noise then I'll probably be happy with them. People keep saying they are pretty detailed sounding with a bass that isn't exaggerated, so I should like them.


----------



## GeeD (Mar 1, 2020)

voicemaster said:


> _and clerkpalmer_
> It sounded fine when you actually use it in a noisy environment like on the airplane or train. It sounded like crap when you were using the ANC when the surrounding is quiet. Also, when turning on the ANC from the earbuds, it will go to the highest ANC setting first instead of the mid level. As I've said before, they just need to tweak the EQ when the ANC is engaged.



I said it before but mine simply don't do this at all.  What you get with ANC off is the same as with ANC on.  I wonder if there is a difference between getting them from the 1More US website and AliX?  Also that article must have been written a while back because the firmware update has been out for a month or so already (and it didn't change anything on mine). (Edit: I'm on an iPhone)

Not sure I'm going to read much into someone going on about their right ear being faulty though, lol

At least he highlighted the issue of everything being on a single control, except this pretty much applies to ALL buds so no point picking on one particular set.

Before they all started putting volume control on buds with only a single control, start/stop/back/forward/voice assistant worked perfectly even if you only had one bud in.  If only they all added volume up/down with a long press on left and right buds ...then only volume control would be useless if you were only using one bud, instead of volume AND track control.

Does nobody think this stuff through?


----------



## Caipirina

nihontoman said:


> ugh, had I known these are so ugly, I'd go for the black version :/ Hope the new stock looks


Well, the scarbir review says that even the black version looks generic / cheap. But hey, once in ear and sweet sound comes out, looks shall be forgiven.


----------



## FYLegend

Has anyone been able to obtain EPZ S350? I recall one Malaysian audio store said they're similar to Sabbat E12 (AptX + Qi + Type-C) but more detailed-sounding. I can only find the Standard edition (Realtek) on Aliexpress. I see it listed on some other Chinese shopping sites like JD.


----------



## voicemaster

clerkpalmer said:


> Agreed. Did you keep yours or return them?


I very rarely return anything that I bought unless it is DOA.


----------



## voicemaster

GeeD said:


> I said it before but mine simply don't do this at all.  *What you get with ANC off is the same as with ANC on.*  I wonder if there is a difference between getting them from the 1More US website and AliX?  Also that article must have been written a while back because the firmware update has been out for a month or so already (and it didn't change anything on mine). (Edit: I'm on an iPhone)
> 
> Not sure I'm going to read much into someone going on about their right ear being faulty though, lol
> 
> ...


Care to explain what this mean? If the sound quality didn't change when you turn on the ANC then isn't it a good thing? I rarely use the ANC eve when I am at starbuck or something. On the airplane tho, it is pretty nice to cancel out those engine noise.


----------



## clerkpalmer

GeeD said:


> I said it before but mine simply don't do this at all.  What you get with ANC off is the same as with ANC on.  I wonder if there is a difference between getting them from the 1More US website and AliX?  Also that article must have been written a while back because the firmware update has been out for a month or so already (and it didn't change anything on mine). (Edit: I'm on an iPhone)
> 
> Not sure I'm going to read much into someone going on about their right ear being faulty though, lol
> 
> ...


All I can say is if you can't hear a difference with ANC on or off then it definitely is a different experience than mine. As for the verge it must be a different firmware update than the one they promised early on. Maybe the Chinese version had a different firmware and less aggressive bass boost.


----------



## DigDub

The inner shell of the wf-h800. It is shaped after a generic tws earbud with sort of a external disc protruding. The fit is comfortable and secure due to the generic inner shell design.


----------



## voicemaster

DigDub said:


> The inner shell of the wf-h800. It is shaped after a generic tws earbud with sort of a external disc protruding. The fit is comfortable and secure due to the generic inner shell design.


With that much room, I expect a 10+hours stand-alone battery life, AptX/LDAC, ANC or passthrough audio.


----------



## The Jojo

I bought the Jabra Elite 75t a few weeks ago. So far I'm enjoying them very much. Here are my thoughts, both positive and negative:  

• The sound is quite bass-boosted, but very rich. Everything that needs a bit of a punch will sound great. Absolutely no noise floor. 
• The app, while a bit weird and redundant in terms of design and functionality, provides a simple equalizer. Works well! 
• The fit is great. I love the eartips, they're soft and comfortable - unfortunately there's only silicone ones, I would have loved some foam tips as well.
• Working flawlessly in heavy rainstorms. They got wet several times, but since they're water resistant it's fine to use them. 
• I'll say it: touch controls in earbuds should be a thing of the past. Clicking is so much more intuitive. It might feel a bit "outdated", but I really enjoy the haptic feedback when changing volume or switching on transparency mode.
• Transparency mode works well. You can even adjust transparency volume.  
• Pairing usually works fine - simultaneously on two devices - but once every couple of days I'll have to re-pair the 75ts with my iPhone. I don't know why.
• For information regarding connection status etc. you can chose between a pleasant female voice ("To connect, go to the bluetooth menu of your mobile device...") or low-key sound effects. There's no option to use the Jabras without any system sounds at all. 
• The earbuds are connected. You can use the right one without the left one, but not the left one without the right one.
• In-ear detection works okay-ish. In most cases playback will stop once you take out one earbud, but sometimes immediately resume once you move your hand.
• Battery life is great. Maxed out at 7.30 hours which almost gives me a full workday. 
• The case is a bit flimsy. Charging via USB-C is a wonderful thing and the simple indicator for case battery status (red-yellow-green LED) works well, but that hinge... don't know how long that's going to last.
• They look unobtrusive while in your ears. Pretty small compared to the 65t, so I feel fine using them in public.  

All in all I've pretty much stopped using my AirPods Pro since I bought the Jabras. Noise Isolation works better than the AirPods rather weak ANC, the sound is much fuller, plus they're cheaper. I can only recommend giving them a try!


----------



## Caipirina (Mar 2, 2020)

FYLegend said:


> Has anyone been able to obtain EPZ S350? I recall one Malaysian audio store said they're similar to Sabbat E12 (AptX + Qi + Type-C) but more detailed-sounding. I can only find the Standard edition (Realtek) on Aliexpress. I see it listed on some other Chinese shopping sites like JD.


Have some on my observation list as well, but that one shop only has the standard version in many colors (on sale now at 67$ now. What a bargain  ) no sign of the pro version. Thought that was maybe a myth / idea only ...

Only seeing it in this shopee.my shop for around 80$


----------



## FYLegend

The Jojo said:


> I bought the Jabra Elite 75t a few weeks ago. So far I'm enjoying them very much. Here are my thoughts, both positive and negative:
> 
> • The sound is quite bass-boosted, but very rich. Everything that needs a bit of a punch will sound great. Absolutely no noise floor.
> • The app, while a bit weird and redundant in terms of design and functionality, provides a simple equalizer. Works well!
> ...


Interesting you mentioned no noise floor as my 65t has hissing on the left bud and louder overall volume as well. I assumed they would have addressed this in the 75t but came across many user complaints on Reddit and other sites.


----------



## C_Lindbergh (Mar 2, 2020)

The Jojo said:


> I bought the Jabra Elite 75t a few weeks ago. So far I'm enjoying them very much. Here are my thoughts, both positive and negative:
> 
> • I'll say it: touch controls in earbuds should be a thing of the past. Clicking is so much more intuitive. It might feel a bit "outdated", but I really enjoy the haptic feedback when changing volume or switching on transparency mode.
> •



I ended up selling my pair of 75t, but they got so much right with that product, the big button control was deffo one its highlights, it worked absolutely flawlessly. Much better than touch controls.

Sometimes OEMs just want's something that's more advanced and "cool" even if its means to comprise on actual usability. For phones its under display fingerprint reader, for TWS its touch controls.


----------



## The Jojo

FYLegend said:


> Interesting you mentioned no noise floor as my 65t has hissing on the left bud and louder overall volume as well. I assumed they would have addressed this in the 75t but came across many user complaints on Reddit and other sites.



I‘m sorry to hear that. I‘ll update my post to include that bit of information once I‘m not on mobile anymore. I can only say that I personally have absolutely no noise floor.


----------



## DigDub

voicemaster said:


> With that much room, I expect a 10+hours stand-alone battery life, AptX/LDAC, ANC or passthrough audio.


The button is pretty poorly placed, the thumb presses on the button when putting or adjusting the earbuds. They are quite hard to dig out from the case as well as there's not much place to grab on to.


----------



## HiFlight

The Jojo said:


> I‘m sorry to hear that. I‘ll update my post to include that bit of information once I‘m not on mobile anymore. I can only say that I personally have absolutely no noise floor.


Nor do I on mine.


----------



## GeeD

voicemaster said:


> Care to explain what this mean? If the sound quality didn't change when you turn on the ANC then isn't it a good thing? I rarely use the ANC eve when I am at starbuck or something. On the airplane tho, it is pretty nice to cancel out those engine noise.


Hey VM, what I meant was switching between ANC on and off didn't seem to affect the sound balance on mine at all ...which is a good thing and I am not complaining in the slightest.

Did you not say yours didn't change the bass either?



clerkpalmer said:


> All I can say is if you can't hear a difference with ANC on or off then it definitely is a different experience than mine. As for the verge it must be a different firmware update than the one they promised early on. Maybe the Chinese version had a different firmware and less aggressive bass boost.



All I can say is I got mine from AliX and that the voice prompts are in English.  Mine arrived from china about a week before the official release, and upgraded to firmware v0.03.31 a few weeks after release and when a couple of reviews mentioned the ANC/bass experience.
I've no idea if there is a Chinese vs international firmware, but whatever I have I am a VERY happy bunny hear (pun intended) 

Who knows, there seems to be a lot of hit n miss going around.  Amazon and being able to return them sounds like a safe bet in regard to buying any TWS.


----------



## voicemaster

GeeD said:


> Hey VM, what I meant was switching between ANC on and off didn't seem to affect the sound balance on mine at all ...which is a good thing and I am not complaining in the slightest.
> 
> Did you not say yours didn't change the bass either?
> 
> ...


Mine changed when using the ANC (the higher the ANC level, the more bass the sound is). I did try the ANC on my long haul flight 2 weeks ago and when using the ANC on that flight, the bass increase is not really affecting the sound so much.


----------



## GeeD

voicemaster said:


> Mine changed when using the ANC (the higher the ANC level, the more bass the sound is). I did try the ANC on my long haul flight 2 weeks ago and when using the ANC on that flight, the bass increase is not really affecting the sound so much.



I prefer a more neutral balance than too much bass so thought I would notice the kind of change you are all talking about, I even downloaded MultiTone to see if I could highlight the change, but either mine are different somehow or my ears just aren't finding it (but I'm not that old yet )


----------



## TheLionelHutz

Can anyone comment to compare the sound of the *Nuarl N6* or *N6 Pro* to the *Cleer Ally Plus*?

I love the N6 sound but not the form factor - they are a little too large for my liking.  Once you tame the mid-bass and jack the 4-12k range in EQ, they sound amazing. Like others, I prefer them to the N6 Pros, which just can't get quite the same tight-but-deep bass response. At least to my ear, the Pros could't pull off, for instance, the same realism of a bass drum strike that the N6 can, and you can open up the N6 treble range to something like an "B+/A-" compared to the "A" the Pros earn.

Anyway, I think the Ally Plus might be worth a flyer if they can sound even almost as good as the N6 (assuming they are ever in stock again).  My list of wants for TWS includes TWS+, touch controls, excellent sound, not honking huge, and aptX is mandatory (AAC does not sound good on my Moto Android).


----------



## jasonb

My Tevis should be here today now according to DHL. I work 12:30 - 8pm, so hopefully they'll be on my back porch when I get home or come home for my dinner break.


----------



## mymail0808

Is a DAP (like Hiby R3 pro comes with bluetooth 5.0) play with true wireless earbud help sound quality over "normal" smartone?
My pioneer 300R Bluetooth version maybe a bit low and the connection is not so good.

Thinking about a R3 pro + either :--
Tevi;
Fiil T1X,
bomaker sifi
 liberty 2 pro, or 
the cambridge audio

yes, just know the website scarbir and it makes many budget earbud looks interesting!!


----------



## gocam

TheLionelHutz said:


> Can anyone comment to compare the sound of the *Nuarl N6* or *N6 Pro* to the *Cleer Ally Plus*?
> 
> I love the N6 sound but not the form factor - they are a little too large for my liking.  Once you tame the mid-bass and jack the 4-12k range in EQ, they sound amazing. Like others, I prefer them to the N6 Pros, which just can't get quite the same tight-but-deep bass response. At least to my ear, the Pros could't pull off, for instance, the same realism of a bass drum strike that the N6 can, and you can open up the N6 treble range to something like an "B+/A-" compared to the "A" the Pros earn.
> 
> Anyway, I think the Ally Plus might be worth a flyer if they can sound even almost as good as the N6 (assuming they are ever in stock again).  My list of wants for TWS includes TWS+, touch controls, excellent sound, not honking huge, and aptX is mandatory (AAC does not sound good on my Moto Android).



I have both the N6 Pro and the Cleer Ally Plus. The N6P sounds better, but not by too much. The biggest issue I have with the Cleer Allys is getting a good tip fit - they have a weird oval channel that means it's hard to get a good ear seal. I use Spinfits on the N6P and those work wonderfully well, not so much on the CA - I'm trying the JVC Spiral dots the the CA and they actually sound fantastic but not the greatest of isolation. No crunch sound when walking though, yay!

The ANC on the CA makes up mostly for the bad isolation - it's not particularly strong but it suffices. They are a nice TWS set, no doubt, but the controls on the N6P work much better - having physical buttons makes a difference to me, and I think Cleer made an error in not allowing track skipping via the buds.

Both sets have fantastic battery life. The Nuarls have much less issue with interference when you are out and about. So I think I'll keep both for now.


----------



## clerkpalmer

mymail0808 said:


> Is a DAP (like Hiby R3 pro comes with bluetooth 5.0) play with true wireless earbud help sound quality over "normal" smartone?
> My pioneer 300R Bluetooth version maybe a bit low and the connection is not so good.
> 
> Thinking about a R3 pro + either :--
> ...



I don't think the DAP will improve SQ over a smarthphone unless the DAP offers a codec that is better than what your smartphone offers.  The AMP and the DAC are all embedded in the TWS itself.


----------



## TheLionelHutz (Mar 2, 2020)

gocam said:


> I have both the N6 Pro and the Cleer Ally Plus. The N6P sounds better, but not by too much. The biggest issue I have with the Cleer Allys is getting a good tip fit - they have a weird oval channel that means it's hard to get a good ear seal. I use Spinfits on the N6P and those work wonderfully well, not so much on the CA - I'm trying the JVC Spiral dots the the CA and they actually sound fantastic but not the greatest of isolation. No crunch sound when walking though, yay!
> 
> The ANC on the CA makes up mostly for the bad isolation - it's not particularly strong but it suffices. They are a nice TWS set, no doubt, but the controls on the N6P work much better - having physical buttons makes a difference to me, and I think Cleer made an error in not allowing track skipping via the buds.
> 
> Both sets have fantastic battery life. The Nuarls have much less issue with interference when you are out and about. So I think I'll keep both for now.


Thanks!! This is very helpful!  Some follow-up questions if you don't mind:

Oval like Klipsch?  Would tips designed for Klipsch fit, do you think?
[Sorry, thought of another one -- have you tried foam tips? Like maybe Dekoni, that are a little more flexibile and don't have a rigid inner channel?]
How would you describe the sound signature compared to the N6P? Warmer, stronger bass, heavier mid, etc? Any sibilance at all?

I do like the physical buttons on the Nuarls, but I generally have better luck with touch controls. With buttons, even the N6 buttons, I end up screwing up the seal when I try to do anything.  And I hear you on the track skip, but that's not a big deal to me, I hardly ever use it on any of my buds. Maybe just how I tend to listen to music, or that I'm used to doing it on my phone's lock screen anyway.


----------



## nihontoman

mymail0808 said:


> Is a DAP (like Hiby R3 pro comes with bluetooth 5.0) play with true wireless earbud help sound quality over "normal" smartone?
> My pioneer 300R Bluetooth version maybe a bit low and the connection is not so good.
> 
> Thinking about a R3 pro + either :--
> ...


Short answer would be "not really" but a longer answer would be "it depends".

if for example, a TWS uses AAC and SBC standards, if the manufacturer of the dap decuded to properly implement thise two codecs, it could be better than android smartphones. AAC from android is hit and miss, and apple products get AAC right all the time. on the contrary, it seems that the "lowly" SBC" can be implemented in a way that it could almost be as good as aptx hd, not just regular aptx - SBC is capable of ~500 kbps bitrate of it is "unlocked", which most android device manufacturers seem to not bother with and bottleneck the bitrate on SBC (not sure about apple, I think they are same in this aspect). there's also the problem of the earbuds themselves properly reading the higher butrate SBC - depends on the manufacturer and what they chose to do with the codecs. 

this is my understanding on the subject And I could be very wrong. take this with a big pinch of rock salt


----------



## Pro-Jules

Do any do Aptx HD?


----------



## nihontoman

Pro-Jules said:


> Do any do Aptx HD?


haven't seen any TWS with Aptx HD. dunno why :/


----------



## gocam

TheLionelHutz said:


> Thanks!! This is very helpful!  Some follow-up questions if you don't mind:
> 
> Oval like Klipsch?  Would tips designed for Klipsch fit, do you think?
> [Sorry, thought of another one -- have you tried foam tips? Like maybe Dekoni, that are a little more flexibile and don't have a rigid inner channel?]
> ...



Not sure about the Klipsch vs Cleer fit - You _can_ get foam tips, spinfits and such onto the Cleer's they just are bent a little out of shape, and then that final core shape is still a little weird to try and get comfortable in the ear. I tried to misodiko (foam) tips, they don't provide a particularly good or comfortable fit with either the Nuarl or the Cleers.

No sibilance with the Cleers, they sound better after I've been listening for a whole, well balanced I would say, not as warm as the Nuarl a little more clinical perhaps ? But I will continue to listen. Both are significantly less bass forward than the Mavin Air-Xrs, and a much more enjoyable well rounded listen (for me) than the Mifo o7s.

Oh - the microphones on the Nuarls work a lot better for me than the Cleer - Cleer's mics don't work particularly well at all, at least that has been my experience.  But they are much more comfortable to _walk_ with than the Nuarls -- and no thump with the Spiral Dots

-g


----------



## hifi80sman

gocam said:


> Not sure about the Klipsch vs Cleer fit - You _can_ get foam tips, spinfits and such onto the Cleer's they just are bent a little out of shape, and then that final core shape is still a little weird to try and get comfortable in the ear. I tried to misodiko (foam) tips, they don't provide a particularly good or comfortable fit with either the Nuarl or the Cleers.
> 
> No sibilance with the Cleers, they sound better after I've been listening for a whole, well balanced I would say, not as warm as the Nuarl a little more clinical perhaps ? But I will continue to listen. Both are significantly less bass forward than the Mavin Air-Xrs, and a much more enjoyable well rounded listen (for me) than the Mifo o7s.
> 
> ...


Poor mic is a killer for me.  Even though I wear TWS' mostly out and about, at the gym, etc., I receive enough calls to where I need acceptable mic quality.  Kind of disappointing for a premium level TWS, given even some Chi-Fi units have good call quality.


----------



## gocam

hifi80sman said:


> Poor mic is a killer for me.  Even though I wear TWS' mostly out and about, at the gym, etc., I receive enough calls to where I need acceptable mic quality.  Kind of disappointing for a premium level TWS, given even some Chi-Fi units have good call quality.



Now to take this with a pinch of salt, the biggest problems I had were when walking with a bit of wind, and I could just stop to talk and all would be fine. But person at other end of line could clearly hear a difference in call quality with these vs the Nuarl and Mavin, both of whose connections are more solid also. YMMV if you are in a non windy locale ! Moving at any speed through the wind whatsoever (eg on a bike) was a total disaster with the Cleers, servicable with the Nuarl/Mavin


----------



## FYLegend

The Jojo said:


> I‘m sorry to hear that. I‘ll update my post to include that bit of information once I‘m not on mobile anymore. I can only say that I personally have absolutely no noise floor.


Have you tried all volumes and what device are you using.  On the 65t the hiss is only noticeable above 70% if your media volume is synced to the device. What I'm more annoyed by is clipping distortion from the left bud with certain piano music among other things.


----------



## jasonb (Mar 3, 2020)

So the Tevi sounds just as I was hoping. Not too bassy, just about perfect bass. Mids are where they should be. Treble is present, clear, and sparkly.

I'm having some pairing issues and volume issues, but when I get them to work right, they work well and sound awesome.

They seem to sound even better with the supplied foam tips, and I'm not usually one to like foam tips. These definitely aren't bassy and dark sounding though, but if you like a neutral bass and a bright(ish) sound then these are great. I really can't complain about the sound at all for my tastes. I didn't know true wireless could sound this clean and clear.


----------



## mymail0808

Thanks all answering my question about DAP and Smartphone.


----------



## Caipirina (Mar 3, 2020)

Newmine R9-4 TWS ... never heard of this company before, but this could be interesting ...






At that price I would have wished for AptX ...  will wait for reviews .. and possibly price drop


----------



## thimantha (Mar 3, 2020)

Caipirina said:


> Newmine R9-4 TWS ... never heard of this company before, but this could be interesting ...
> 
> 
> 
> At that price I would have wished for AptX ...  will wait for reviews .. and possibly price drop



Why does it say 'Newmie' in the logo, though? XD

Edit: Some further digging found me this website http://www.newsmy.com/index.html. They use the names newsmy, newmine, newsmine, newman and newmie. WHYYYYYYYYY


----------



## FYLegend

How's Galaxy Buds+ SBC quality on Windows 10?


----------



## Caipirina

thimantha said:


> Why does it say 'Newmie' in the logo, though? XD
> 
> Edit: Some further digging found me this website http://www.newsmy.com/index.html. They use the names newsmy, newmine, newsmine, newman and newmie. WHYYYYYYYYY



i am aware of Newsmy as a maker of mp4 Players, but I did not make that connection yet 

but thanks to your post I also now see it in of of their product pics on AE

website address barely legible on brochure.
So confusing...


----------



## BigZ12

jasonb said:


> So the Tevi sounds just as I was hoping. Not too bassy, just about perfect bass. Mids are where they should be. Treble is present, clear, and sparkly.
> 
> I'm having some pairing issues and volume issues, but when I get them to work right, they work well and sound awesome.
> 
> They seem to sound even better with the supplied foam tips, and I'm not usually one to like foam tips. These definitely aren't bassy and dark sounding though, but if you like a neutral bass and a bright(ish) sound then these are great. I really can't complain about the sound at all for my tastes. I didn't know true wireless could sound this clean and clear.


Awesome!

Did they work with the app straight out the box? 
The way you're describing the sound, I wonder if you got a "non-updated" version? 

About the bass, with the Flexfit foam (I have tried 3 sizes, since I got 3 extra pairs as a gift when ordering early), I actually miss the deep bass.
I have noticably more and deeper bass with for ex. the JVC Spiral Dots (and even the included silicone ones). 

For comfort I like foam tips. With silicone I often experience a vacuum feeling when pressing the buttons, and I get "noise" when chewing and more noise/thumping while walking/running. That's why I've ordered the new Comply Foam for the Tevis, and I think I'll get them tomorrow. Excited to see if they can both be comfortable and have more similar sound to the JVC Spiral dots, compared to the Flexfits.


----------



## jasonb

BigZ12 said:


> Awesome!
> 
> Did they work with the app straight out the box?
> The way you're describing the sound, I wonder if you got a "non-updated" version?
> ...



They worked with the app straight out of the box.

Let me know how you feel about the comply tips because I was considering trying them as well.


----------



## DDDYKI

I haven't been able to test the mic on the B&O E8 3 yet, something I really should do sooner than later. With a little effort, the buds fit in the case with the Comply foam attached, but I don't think the people at B&O thought people would leave the foam on when putting the buds back in the case. Just takes a little extra maneuvering to get them to sit on the magnet.


----------



## GeeD (Mar 3, 2020)

Caipirina said:


> Newmine R9-4 TWS ... never heard of this company before, but this could be interesting ...
> 
> 
> 
> At that price I would have wished for AptX ...  will wait for reviews .. and possibly price drop



You might wait a while, Linsoul is listing them as only available on Indiegogo https://www.linsoul.com/products/newmine-r9-4-tws , and DD-Audio store is listing them on AliX ...for delivery by 5/11 (EDIT: direct link) https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000739060319.html


EDIT: also https://item.jd.com/64086132225.html - 4, 6, 8 or 10 moving iron


----------



## TheLionelHutz

GeeD said:


> You might wait a while, Linsoul is listing them as only available on Indiegogo https://www.linsoul.com/products/newmine-r9-4-tws , and DD-Audio store is listing them on AliX ...for delivery by 5/11 https://bit.ly/2T7mt12
> 
> 
> EDIT: also https://item.jd.com/64086132225.html - 4, 6, 8 or 10 moving iron


I definitely do not want the "set of three fever models".


----------



## 13gsc13

Any way to change the prompts on the FIIL T1X to English?


----------



## tma6

Just got the AuSounds Au-Stream Hybrid in. First impressions are solid - consumer friendly sound, good fit, tiny premium feeling case. Still gotta test out ANC outside and call quality and listen to these for a while longer. I have to say it’s tough for me though since the N6 Pros sound so good, it’s going to be tough for these to compare on a sound quality level. These def have more features though. Will probably do a full review at some point later this week.


----------



## rhsauer

tma6 said:


> Just got the AuSounds Au-Stream Hybrid in. First impressions are solid - consumer friendly sound, good fit, tiny premium feeling case. Still gotta test out ANC outside and call quality and listen to these for a while longer. I have to say it’s tough for me though since the N6 Pros sound so good, it’s going to be tough for these to compare on a sound quality level. These def have more features though. Will probably do a full review at some point later this week.


I'm very anxious to hear your thoughts on these.  They look great on paper, and they're nice looking earphones.  There's some confusion in AUsounds literature as to whether ANC reduces the 24 (aggregate) hours of battery life to 20 hours or to ~14 hours.  The non-ANC battery life is supposed to be 9 hours, with another 15 hours from the case.  I'm hoping for at least 6 hours on the bud for ANC.  The ANC is feed-forward and feed-back, so it should be good.  I'm particularly interested in the outgoing call quality.  Thanks!


----------



## asak (Mar 3, 2020)

tma6 said:


> Just got the AuSounds Au-Stream Hybrid in. First impressions are solid - consumer friendly sound, good fit, tiny premium feeling case. Still gotta test out ANC outside and call quality and listen to these for a while longer. I have to say it’s tough for me though since the N6 Pros sound so good, it’s going to be tough for these to compare on a sound quality level. These def have more features though. Will probably do a full review at some point later this week.





rhsauer said:


> I'm very anxious to hear your thoughts on these.  They look great on paper, and they're nice looking earphones.  There's some confusion in AUsounds literature as to whether ANC reduces the 24 (aggregate) hours of battery life to 20 hours or to ~14 hours.  The non-ANC battery life is supposed to be 9 hours, with another 15 hours from the case.  I'm hoping for at least 6 hours on the bud for ANC.  The ANC is feed-forward and feed-back, so it should be good.  I'm particularly interested in the outgoing call quality.  Thanks!





I have a pair of these too. The resolution is certainly good, but the midrange seems a bit thin and treble a bit hot. Was hoping the titanium driver burned in to a warmer sound, but was not the case. The ANC seems good and the call quality is decent. I have been trying to initiate a return within the 30 day policy, but they seem to be unresponsive and not honoring it. So heads up if you're interested. Although I would be willing to sell mine for a loss, just message me.


----------



## Kulch

I've been using the ANBES 359 for over a year, it's been an amazing set, have ran over 1000kms in them. but I've just received the liberty air 2s and straight out of the box, I have a good fit and it sounds incredible. Haven't even got to the app and eq and hear ID stuff. Will post further impressions after a solid run with them. But so far a great upgrade, I'm pleasantly surprised


----------



## tma6

asak said:


> I have a pair of these too. The resolution is certainly good, but the midrange seems a bit thin and treble a bit hot. Was hoping the titanium driver burned in to a warmer sound, but was not the case. The ANC seems good and the call quality is decent. I have been trying to initiate a return within the 30 day policy, but they seem to be unresponsive and not honoring it. So heads up if you're interested. Although I would be willing to sell mine for a loss, just message me.



These are my impressions so far as well. Definitely hot on the treble, bit of a recessed midrange, bass is a bit boomy but well controlled for the most part and good extension, good detail retrieval and timbre. Problem is when I compare h2d w the N6 Pro, the N6P sounds pretty significantly better, but the Hybrids don’t sound bad if you can handle the 1-2k spike. Call quality is actually pretty good, and the ANC works to a certain extent but still not fantastic. The main problem w ANC on these is wind noise. Even the slightest breeze and you get wind noise feedback and that’s a bit of a problem for me. Really like the tiny case, but haven’t had a chance to fully test battery life. No volume controls. All in all I think this is a decent set but not quite a fully realized product. They’re going back, prob no full review (hopefully they respond to me).


----------



## FYLegend

Where can I get Galaxy Buds+ in Canada and be able to return them? Amazon.ca doesn't have an official listing right now (third-party seller inflating the price..)


----------



## gocam

gocam said:


> Here is the one I am going to try - it has AptxHD apparently and uses the QCC3034 chipset, with BT 5.0 support - will keep you posted. I intend trying with my Magaosi MGS-401s - I've previously used those with the EarStudio and they sound fantastic, but the form factor with regular cables is a little meh. So, will see how below goes - it quotes 10 hrs of battery
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07YXXXJQQ/
> 
> It looks like it's the same one as this : https://penonaudio.com/bqeyz-z3-bluetooth-cable.html and there is some discussion of the variants here : https://www.head-fi.org/threads/bqeyz-z3-bluetooth-cable.911673/




Ok - those are absolutely awful (the one with the two battery pods). Absolutely terrible noise underlying everything. Going straight back  They are indeed BQEYZ - bad sound and very cheap feel --- which is fair as they are....cheap


----------



## gocam

Thought I'd share that in addition to the Nuarl N6 Pro and Cleer Ally Pluses, I've also given more listening time to the Mavin Air-XR Qis - they really are a great all rounder - bass heavy but they've mellowed with use, and they are so darn small I get an absolutely brilliant fit with them, and they are easily the most comfortable set I've had. The best isolation too, without need for ANC, even in windy environment. FWIW.


----------



## mymail0808

I am trying to have best sound from a budget bundle;

earbud will be selected among Lypertek Tevi , fiil T1x or bomaker sifi; i don't need lots of bass, enough is enough. I think either can do;
a new DAP selected between fiio M5 and Hiby R3 pro, but I am wondering what will be the most important parameter?

the codec? the version of bluetooth? or the mark " hi-res audio wirelss" on Fiio is the most important to have the "best" sound and connection?


----------



## jasonb

mymail0808 said:


> I am trying to have best sound from a budget bundle;
> 
> earbud will be selected among Lypertek Tevi , fiil T1x or bomaker sifi; i don't need lots of bass, enough is enough. I think either can do;
> a new DAP selected between fiio M5 and Hiby R3 pro, but I am wondering what will be the most important parameter?
> ...



I just got the Tevi's and think they sound great. They don't have lots of bass, and sound pretty neutral.


----------



## jasonb

Anyone else have experience with an Android phone that supports the Qualcomm aptx TWS+ where it sends the sound to each bud separately? 

My OnePlus 7T supports it and the Tevi's support it, but it just seems buggy. I keep having to repair them and the volume control buttons on the Tevi's don't work correctly. The volume control buttons on the Tevi ends up only adjusting the volume for one of the two buds, not both. Half the time I take them out of the case they don't connect to my phone and I have to repair them. Repairing them isn't hard or lengthy, but I shouldn't have to pair them over and over. IDK if the Tevi's are buggy in TWS+ mode, or if it's my phone, or if TWS+ is just buggy on every phone.


----------



## srinivasvignesh

aspirina750 said:


> If you have a Samsung device I recommend setting a Routine that turns ON ATMOS when any video APP is used... saves much time.



How do you do that?


----------



## srinivasvignesh

Luke Skywalker said:


> Those sound awesome!  I wish they had LDAC though... I've heard the noise cancellation isn't quite as good as the Sony WF-1000XM3 though.



I was under the similar impression too, thought it helped a bit, and only a bit. However, I have also since had a APP. APP noise reduction seems dramatic since its passive isolation is bad. APP ANC vs MW07 Passive+ANC, is not that terribly off when it comes to eliminating environmental noise.  

Also, did a call test comparison in noisy environment. No contest. MW07+ is far superior. Just need to angle it right towards the mouth.


----------



## Caipirina

Found 2 more AptX buds in my collection: Was only half aware that the Mpow M5/T5 has an AptX version, thought that was a new thing, but lo-and-behold, mine is   and who would have thunk that the Syllable S101 are also QC3020 equipped and thus play the AptX game ... nice & nice ... wonder if I find any more ... 

So quiet here and mail from AE is still at snail's pace .. my Dyplay ANC buds finally left China on Feb 18 .. and STILL have not shown up in my country ... 
slight withdrawal here ... need new buds !!!


----------



## BobJS

I read a blurb last night (sorry, can't remember where), that it leaked that Sony was going to implement AptX in their WF-1000XM3 through a firmware update. (This involves basically throwing a software switch and paying a royalty ?) They opted against their own LDAC codec because it would destroy the play time per charge.

This is a damn shame, as I now have to consider getting them.


----------



## RobinFood

BobJS said:


> I read a blurb last night (sorry, can't remember where), that it leaked that Sony was going to implement AptX in their WF-1000XM3 through a firmware update. (This involves basically throwing a software switch and paying a royalty ?) They opted against their own LDAC codec because it would destroy the play time per charge.
> 
> This is a damn shame, as I now have to consider getting them.



If it is any consolation they sound amazing with only SBC. After a week of heavy use I couldn't go back to my Nuarl NT01AX and enjoy it like before. EQ in the app also helps keep the sound fresh.


----------



## Caipirina

RobinFood said:


> If it is any consolation they sound amazing with only SBC. After a week of heavy use I couldn't go back to my Nuarl NT01AX and enjoy it like before. EQ in the app also helps keep the sound fresh.


Do they do AAC with iPhones?


----------



## assassin10000

Caipirina said:


> Found 2 more AptX buds in my collection: Was only half aware that the Mpow M5/T5 has an AptX version, thought that was a new thing, but lo-and-behold, mine is   and who would have thunk that the Syllable S101 are also QC3020 equipped and thus play the AptX game ... nice & nice ... wonder if I find any more ...
> 
> So quiet here and mail from AE is still at snail's pace .. my Dyplay ANC buds finally left China on Feb 18 .. and STILL have not shown up in my country ...
> slight withdrawal here ... need new buds !!!



Speaking of APT-X buds, came across these. They look comfortable, I like the control scheme and battery life maybe ok.
https://m.aliexpress.com/item/4000603074856.html
https://m.aliexpress.com/item/4000617459206.html (cheaper here)

 



New-bud-itis is building.
I was looking at those alien secret qcc010 & anc x8.

These T3  / T3S look nice. No aptx tho, just AAC. Interesting that it has a slimmer no battery case or one with a case.
https://m.aliexpress.com/item/32995005401.html



Also found another earpod/sabbat clone:
https://m.aliexpress.com/item/4000718066837.html



BobJS said:


> I read a blurb last night (sorry, can't remember where), that it leaked that Sony was going to implement AptX in their WF-1000XM3 through a firmware update. (This involves basically throwing a software switch and paying a royalty ?) They opted against their own LDAC codec because it would destroy the play time per charge.
> 
> This is a damn shame, as I now have to consider getting them.





RobinFood said:


> If it is any consolation they sound amazing with only SBC. After a week of heavy use I couldn't go back to my Nuarl NT01AX and enjoy it like before. EQ in the app also helps keep the sound fresh.



If this does happen, I may have to get them... Since I have no ANC TWS yet.


----------



## BigZ12 (Mar 4, 2020)

jasonb said:


> Let me know how you feel about the comply tips because I was considering trying them as well.


Summarize:
- I use medium size JVC Spiral dots, and original tips, so I bought the medium Comply Foams (with Techdefender).
https://www.complyfoam.com/products/twzz-truegrip-2
- The fit is awesome. Seal is near perfect for me. No noise while chewing, moving mouth, and less thumping while walking. No vacuum feel when pressing buttons. (that alone is worth buying)
- Marginally less deep bass compared to the JVC Spiral Dots, but sound is otherwise as full with midbass, mids and treble on par with the JVCs.
- Noticably more bass than Flexfit foam.
- They fit the case perfectly.
- My early and short conclusion is that these are my go-to tips, when considering sound and comfort overall.


----------



## jasonb

BigZ12 said:


> Summarize:
> - I use medium size JVC Spiral dots, and original tips, so I bought the medium Comply Foams (with Techdefender).
> https://www.complyfoam.com/products/twzz-truegrip-2
> - The fit is awesome. Seal is near perfect for me. No noise while chewing, moving mouth, and less thumping while walking. No vacuum feel when pressing buttons. (that alone is worth buying)
> ...



Sweet I'll order a couple pairs. They don't seem to reduce the mids or highs at all compared to a silicone tip?


----------



## BigZ12

jasonb said:


> Sweet I'll order a couple pairs. They don't seem to reduce the mids or highs at all compared to a silicone tip?


If so marginally. I need to listen some more to conclude 100%.
I've heard a tiny hint of sibilance in a few of my test tracks with the JVC Spiral Dots. I didn't react to that with the Comply Foam. 
That may be proof that the treble are a tiny bit limited?
But my first conclusion is that these are close to perfect. (in my ears and taste, that's important to say  )


----------



## marcus2704

I bought MW07 Plus and have spent much of today listening to them, early impressions are very positive and despite being in central London and using busy underground lines there was zero Bluetooth breakup which is almost unheard of in my experience of a variety of TW IEMs.  Sound is lively and exciting, and I love the design of the earphones themselves and also the lovely case.  I will try Spinfits etc but the default tip seems to fit fairly well.   I do wish they would go a touch louder, maybe 10-15% would be perfect, but I find this to be the same for almost every TW earphone I have tried to date, and I am not convinced by the noise cancellation as yet but alternate tips may improve this.


----------



## jasonb

BigZ12 said:


> If so marginally. I need to listen some more to conclude 100%.
> I've heard a tiny hint of sibilance in a few of my test tracks with the JVC Spiral Dots. I didn't react to that with the Comply Foam.
> That may be proof that the treble are a tiny bit limited?
> But my first conclusion is that these are close to perfect. (in my ears and taste, that's important to say  )



I just ordered a pack of them. Hopefully I like them as much as you.


----------



## BigZ12

jasonb said:


> I just ordered a pack of them. Hopefully I like them as much as you.


I hope so too. 
A bit risky to recommend tips (and buds) to others, but I really liked these, that's why I had to share my findings.
Guess I'll hear from you after you have received and tested them.


----------



## KarimLeVallois

marcus2704 said:


> I bought MW07 Plus and have spent much of today listening to them, early impressions are very positive and despite being in central London and using busy underground lines there was zero Bluetooth breakup which is almost unheard of in my experience of a variety of TW IEMs.  Sound is lively and exciting, and I love the design of the earphones themselves and also the lovely case.  I will try Spinfits etc but the default tip seems to fit fairly well.   I do wish they would go a touch louder, maybe 10-15% would be perfect, but I find this to be the same for almost every TW earphone I have tried to date, and I am not convinced by the noise cancellation as yet but alternate tips may improve this.



What source are you using? I was having the opposite regarding a connection around London.


----------



## jasonb

BigZ12 said:


> I hope so too.
> A bit risky to recommend tips (and buds) to others, but I really liked these, that's why I had to share my findings.
> Guess I'll hear from you after you have received and tested them.



I doubt they'll be any worse than the flexfit foam tips.


----------



## Grayson73

Now that the SSK isn't available, what would you get for <$50 USD?


----------



## Caipirina

Grayson73 said:


> Now that the SSK isn't available, what would you get for <$50 USD?


If it is the shape of the buds, there is another SSK model which I believe uses the exact same mold. Can’t comment on the sound though, if it is the same.


otherwise, the tronsmart spinky Beats maybe? Similar fit and awesome sound, plus AptX


----------



## aspirina750

srinivasvignesh said:


> How do you do that?



This is my rule:


----------



## tma6

The obsession continues.. Just ordered these Boltune ANC TWS: https://www.amazon.com/Boltune-Cancelling-Headphones-Bluetooth-Earphones/dp/B08395B6RB/ref=sr_1_7?crid=1OB7DVGD4ZYNK&keywords=boltune+wireless+headphones+anc&qid=1583350151&sprefix=boltune,aps,154&sr=8-7

Should be arriving early next week. They sound a bit too good to be true on paper particularly for the price, but will report back w my impressions!


----------



## TheLionelHutz

Grayson73 said:


> Now that the SSK isn't available, what would you get for <$50 USD?


Phaiser Fusion One is my rec. I love them: https://www.amazon.com/Bluetooth-Headphones-Earphones-Sweatproof-Guarantee/dp/B07ZDGSHD5/


----------



## RobinFood

Caipirina said:


> Do they do AAC with iPhones?



Of course, I just happen to have an Android phone that doesn't support AAC, but it works on AAC with my shanling m0... The only thing is that the m0 has a weak Bluetooth signal.


----------



## TheLionelHutz

I think I've found tip nirvana! Just got some Symbio Ws in today's mail - memory foam core, silicone sleeve.  They fit as easily and securely as my Spinfit 360s, but they have great isolation and zero-thunk like foam, without having to mold and hold.  I actually had to EQ down the bass on my N6s because these accentuated it a little too much.  These things are awesome.


----------



## RobinFood

TheLionelHutz said:


> I think I've found tip nirvana! Just got some Symbio Ws in today's mail - memory foam core, silicone sleeve.  They fit as easily and securely as my Spinfit 360s, but they have great isolation and zero-thunk like foam, without having to mold and hold.  I actually had to EQ down the bass on my N6s because these accentuated it a little too much.  These things are awesome.



I'm getting awesome isolation with the spinfit 360s and have been eyeing  the symbios for a while. What size spinfits did you use and what size of symbios are you using now?


----------



## TheLionelHutz

RobinFood said:


> I'm getting awesome isolation with the spinfit 360s and have been eyeing  the symbios for a while. What size spinfits did you use and what size of symbios are you using now?


I'm usually a medium, but I'm finding better fit for both the spinfits and Symbios with small. I think they are comparably sized, Small to Small, Medium to Medium. My left ear canal is a smidge wider than the right so I may end up using a medium on that side. Will see how things go during my morning commute tomorrow.


----------



## Caipirina

TheLionelHutz said:


> I think I've found tip nirvana! Just got some Symbio Ws in today's mail - memory foam core, silicone sleeve.  They fit as easily and securely as my Spinfit 360s, but they have great isolation and zero-thunk like foam, without having to mold and hold.  I actually had to EQ down the bass on my N6s because these accentuated it a little too much.  These things are awesome.


available on AE? looks awesome ...   adding 'tip nirvana' to my audio vocab now


----------



## Caipirina

The Haylou GT1 plus seem to be back ... but look at the price!!! Here is hoping it’s just missing the usual 56% off, like the regular GT1 ...


----------



## Pro-Jules (Mar 5, 2020)

Is this another sales listing with a typo claiming AptXHD?

I looked it up and cant see it doing the HD codec.


----------



## Caipirina

Pro-Jules said:


> Is this another sales listing with a typo claiming AptXHD?
> 
> I looked it up and cant see it doing the HD codec.


Seems they are rather free with throwing around terms like AptX and anc in general. As well as HD, 9D, UV cleaning ... always important to read the find print.


----------



## thimantha

Pro-Jules said:


> Is this another sales listing with a typo claiming AptXHD?
> 
> I looked it up and cant see it doing the HD codec.



It's *'Haylou GT1 Plus AptX - *_HD Real Sound_*' *


----------



## axlgod

I’m after some new wireless ear buds as I’m looking to replace my jaybird x3s (which have been brilliant).

I listen to all my music in flac through KaiserTone & Tidal (masters).
Which would be the best to use?
I’m looking for recommendations if anyone could point me in the right direction.

thanks.


----------



## nihontoman

axlgod said:


> I’m after some new wireless ear buds as I’m looking to replace my jaybird x3s (which have been brilliant).
> 
> I listen to all my music in flac through KaiserTone & Tidal (masters).
> Which would be the best to use?
> ...


are u using Iphone? try the Fiil T1x. it's $50 on amazon at the moment. If you are using an android phone, bomaker Sifi seems to be a good choice.


----------



## axlgod

Yes, I’m using iPhone XR, I’ll check out Fiil T1x 
 I always naively thought that the more expensive the better?


----------



## Caipirina (Mar 5, 2020)

Pro-Jules said:


> Is this another sales listing with a typo claiming AptXHD?
> 
> I looked it up and cant see it doing the HD codec.



The old listing used the exact same lingo, but a much nicer price ... (oh, they switched on the 50% off ... all good now ... or wait until end of march and hope to safe another 2$ or so in anniversary sale   )


----------



## nihontoman

I have a very limited experience on TWS iems, so I can't say for sure but there is a certain thing called the "law of diminishing returns" and it is true for everything, including iems. look at scarbir.com for some good TWS reviewes, you might like some of the options listed there. 

there is also sonys, the Nuarl N6 pros, anker liberty pro 2s and some other options for much more money though


----------



## nihontoman

Caipirina said:


> The old listing used the exact same lingo, but a much nicer price ...


That os a good price. anything over 25-30 for those seems like a no go. I bought my alien secrets for way less and those seem to be better than the gt1 plus in every way (except for that ugly white plastic )


----------



## Pro-Jules (Mar 5, 2020)

Caipirina said:


> The old listing used the exact same lingo, but a much nicer price ... (oh, they switched on the 50% off ... all good now ... or wait until end of march and hope to safe another 2$ or so in anniversary sale   )




What a time waste!

It's an intentionally misleading er...'confusion' in the headline syntax (it's *not *AptX-HD codec)

Below says Apt-X (but I don't even believe that now!)


----------



## Caipirina

nihontoman said:


> That os a good price. anything over 25-30 for those seems like a no go. I bought my alien secrets for way less and those seem to be better than the gt1 plus in every way (except for that ugly white plastic )


how did you get the Alien Sectrets cheap? how cheap?


----------



## Caipirina

Pro-Jules said:


> What a time waste!
> 
> It's an intentionally misleading er...'confusion' in the headline syntax (it's *not *AptX-HD codec)
> 
> Below says Apt-X (but I don't even believe that now!)



There's actually a bunch of reviews out there comparing all the Haylous and so far none has cried foul.

I am more suspicious about models I don't know from sellers I don't know ...  These for example ... 




or these guys, even says aptx in the specifications ... not believing it for a second!


----------



## TheLionelHutz (Mar 5, 2020)

Caipirina said:


> available on AE? looks awesome ...   adding 'tip nirvana' to my audio vocab now


Dunno about AE. I bought direct from Symbio. They are based on Hungary, apparently. I got a tracking number ending in -HU and I thought it was a typo ("surely these are coming from Hong Kong, not Hungary"). But the envelope showed up plastered in Old World Hungarian stamps. It was like receiving a letter from the Victorian age.


----------



## TheLionelHutz (Mar 5, 2020)

axlgod said:


> Yes, I’m using iPhone XR, I’ll check out Fiil T1x
> I always naively thought that the more expensive the better?


There's a difference between "awesome for $50," and "excellent by any standard." Depends on which you are looking for.

I didn't drive either off my iphone i use for work, but the Nuarl N6 and N6 Pro are, I think, in the "excellent" category.

I'm due for an upgrade of my iPhone 6s via work and I'm probably getting an XR. I think when I do I'm going to pick up another pair of Advanced Sound X+ just to use with that phone (I'm not supposed to put personal apps like Spotify on it, but ...). Off my Android personal phone they didn't sound as good, no aptX. But off my 6s using Apple's far superior implentation of AAC, they sounded every bit as good as the Nuarl N6 to my ear. And they are ridiculously comfortable, with proprietary foam tips included.


----------



## bronco1015

hey all, am super behind on this thread, but wanted to share something i just discovered. For those who have LG phones, you might be annoyed like me that they almost always default to AAC. I've been wondering for a few days now, if i left a headset paired to the phone after switching to APTX, then power up a different TWE that's also capable of APTX, would the phone continue streaming in APTX, or would i have to go back into dev options and switch it again? i switched my Bomaker SiFi from AAC to APTX, heard the short pause as it switched, then let it stream for a minute or so. Then i pulled out my nuarl N6 Pro, while still leaving the SiFi paired, and, it was still streaming in APTX! There is a distinct difference in SQ with the N6P in AAC vs APTX on my V40, but just to make sure i wasn't hearing things, i went back into develloper options and selected APTX as the streaming codec, and instead of a brief pause as is common when switching from 1 codec to another, the music kept on going.
i just wanted to share because usually when i switch i power one off then pull out the next pair and have to go through that whole process of switching codecs again.


----------



## TheLionelHutz

BobJS said:


> I read a blurb last night (sorry, can't remember where), that it leaked that Sony was going to implement AptX in their WF-1000XM3 through a firmware update. (This involves basically throwing a software switch and paying a royalty ?) They opted against their own LDAC codec because it would destroy the play time per charge.
> 
> This is a damn shame, as I now have to consider getting them.


My Google feed just surfaced this for me (obviously I've been searching about earbuds and aptX enough that the Google took notice).

https://thewalkmanblog.blogspot.com/2020/02/sony-to-add-aptx-hd-support-to-wf.html


----------



## Pro-Jules

Personally, I think we are seeing a spate of staff website copy errors on tech spec pages - not embargoed “leaks” about Bluetooth codecs ‘around the corner’


----------



## martiniCZ (Mar 5, 2020)

If anyone cares, Tennemak makes great foams. It even has a set specifically for TWS, but I use the cheaper standard version on my Onyx Neo without a problem (and also with my other daily IEM's). Their foams are pleasantly soft, comfortable with smooth surface (silicon like) and have extremely long time rebuild. But the most important thing for me is that I see absolutely no distortion or blurring on the trebles, as is the case with foams from some other manufacturers. Sizes their foams are littlebit smaler, then from other manufactures (Tennemak L is like TRN M, but 1mm shorter).
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/400...1.0&pvid=4eb991d8-23ff-46f3-a272-26419a4899c4


----------



## DigDub

axhng said:


> I wonder if Bartig has gotten his GT1 Plus yet. Based on his review on the Soundpeats TrueDot, it feels to me like it might sound similar to the GT1 plus.
> 
> https://www.scarbir.com/tws/soundpeats-truedot-review


Soundpeats has updated the truedot. It now comes with Qualcomm 3020 with aptx support and can control volume with double taps (left to lower volume, right to raise volume). Either buds can be used in single mode now, the old version could only use the right bud.


----------



## Caipirina

TheLionelHutz said:


> My Google feed just surfaced this for me (obviously I've been searching about earbuds and aptX enough that the Google took notice).
> 
> https://thewalkmanblog.blogspot.com/2020/02/sony-to-add-aptx-hd-support-to-wf.html



I remember finding the WF1000xm3 on aptx.com  and asked about that here a while ago (since every other source said that they can't do aptx) 

So, we still don't really know, but rather not?


----------



## Caipirina

DigDub said:


> Soundpeats has updated the truedot. It now comes with Qualcomm 3020 with aptx support and can control volume with double taps (left to lower volume, right to raise volume). Either buds can be used in single mode now, the old version could only use the right bud.



Not seeing it on AE yet ... i am getting really confused with all the different SoundPEATS ofefrings ... trying to figure out i.e. the diff between the Truedots and the Truefree+ ...


----------



## TheLionelHutz

DigDub said:


> Soundpeats has updated the truedot. It now comes with Qualcomm 3020 with aptx support and can control volume with double taps (left to lower volume, right to raise volume). Either buds can be used in single mode now, the old version could only use the right bud.


Do you have these?  How do they sound? I was not impressed with the Truengine SE, but I like the overall package on the TrueDot.


----------



## DigDub

TheLionelHutz said:


> Do you have these?  How do they sound? I was not impressed with the Truengine SE, but I like the overall package on the TrueDot.


I have both the truedot and the trueengine se. I like the truedot better than the trueengine se. Truedot has better clarity and overall better value for money.


----------



## Odioer

Caipirina said:


> The Haylou GT1 plus seem to be back ... but look at the price!!! Here is hoping it’s just missing the usual 56% off, like the regular GT1 ...


Now down to 25


DigDub said:


> I have both the truedot and the trueengine se. I like the truedot better than the trueengine se. Truedot has better clarity and overall better value for money.


Do you have the haylou, ssk, spunky, qcy?
How do they compare?


----------



## webvan

Caipirina said:


> There's actually a bunch of reviews out there comparing all the Haylous and so far none has cried foul.



Do you have a link ? The GT ¨Pro are only 29€ on Amazon right now. I suppose I could use another TWE to play with, at least for a while


----------



## DigDub

Odioer said:


> Now down to 25
> 
> Do you have the haylou, ssk, spunky, qcy?
> How do they compare?


Sorry, I do not have any of those. The closest I have is the qcy t1c. The qcy t1c sounds fun with big bass. The truedot is flatter sounding.


----------



## malfario (Mar 5, 2020)

Caipirina said:


> Not seeing it on AE yet ... i am getting really confused with all the different SoundPEATS ofefrings ... trying to figure out i.e. the diff between the Truedots and the Truefree+ ...



I think the Truedot is this one, or am I wrong?

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000253398152.html

Edit: Oh, you are talking about a new Truedot model, sorry!


----------



## jasonb

A few days later and I'm still liking these Lypertek Tevi's a lot. The default sound with no EQ is perfect for my tastes. The bass isn't overdone and the clarity is great overall.


----------



## Caipirina

webvan said:


> Do you have a link ? The GT ¨Pro are only 29€ on Amazon right now. I suppose I could use another TWE to play with, at least for a while


I posted this one earlier, for clearly freely using @Bartig ’s photos 
https://www.xiaomitoday.com/haylou-earbuds-comparison/

there is another one I can’t find right now,I posted a snippet of a table where I saw for the first time that the driver is different on the GT1 plus.
The GT1 pro I believe only have a bigger battery in case. Oh, and they all thud


----------



## Caipirina

Odioer said:


> Now down to 25
> 
> Do you have the haylou, ssk, spunky, qcy?
> How do they compare?


That would make for an interesting a/b/c/d listening session. Not sure my brass ears could determine a clear winner, hence my advice is usually ‘get them all’ 

check scarbir.com he often does selected comparisons


----------



## Caipirina

DigDub said:


> I have both the truedot and the trueengine se. I like the truedot better than the trueengine se. Truedot has better clarity and overall better value for money.


Guess I am taking the truengine off my wish list. I like the dual driver design (similar to syllable s101 I was hoping) and AptX. But it’s 42$ atm...


----------



## webvan

Caipirina said:


> I posted this one earlier, for clearly freely using @Bartig ’s photos
> https://www.xiaomitoday.com/haylou-earbuds-comparison/
> 
> there is another one I can’t find right now,I posted a snippet of a table where I saw for the first time that the driver is different on the GT1 plus.
> The GT1 pro I believe only have a bigger battery in case. Oh, and they all thud


Thanks, ok, not enough that would warrant playing with a new TWS it seems !


----------



## Caipirina

Anyone got these Nilkin? I this case they missed putting the AptX in the description/ headline, hence they did not come up in searches yet.
The brochure material / pics seem to clearly indicate QC3020, heck, even the video does 

bit more than others at 47$


----------



## axlgod

Ok, I’ve narrowed it down to 3.

Cambridge Audio Melomania 1.
Sony WF 1000xm3.
Lypertek Tevi.

I’m leaning towards the Cambridge Audio purely for AptX.

Are there any others to consider?

Thanks.


----------



## TheLionelHutz

Caipirina said:


> Guess I am taking the truengine off my wish list. I like the dual driver design (similar to syllable s101 I was hoping) and AptX. But it’s 42$ atm...


I tried the Truengine SE because I like the Phaiser Fusion Ones so much.  Also an aptX dual-driver design, but I was hoping to like the TE SE shape better.  But I didn't like the shape and the sound wasn't even close to comparable.  The Phaisers are much, much better - better, tighter bass, better separation, better upper clarity, better soundstage.


----------



## BigZ12

axlgod said:


> Ok, I’ve narrowed it down to 3.
> 
> Cambridge Audio Melomania 1.
> Sony WF 1000xm3.
> ...


The Tevis got AptX as well...


----------



## Eisenhower

jasonb said:


> Isn't crosstalk an amplifier or DAC problem? I don't think the sound is leaking as the sound travels through the cable.



Usually but you can get cross-talk if the cables aren't shielded well


----------



## Eisenhower (Mar 5, 2020)

Bought the Fiil t1x's. Will likely do a bigger review later. I'm pretty impressed, especially for $40. I mostly bought them because of convenience. The sound is pretty good but compared to my other headphones (NAD HP50 and KZ ZSN) these have some kind of spike in the treble frequencies that makes vocals really present. It's not bad but not what I'd prefer, because for podcasts it's slightly annoying. It's like people are talking right in front of my face. The controls are also annoying -- double tapping to play/pause works like 30% of the time. Not sure if the other options in this price range are much better. Luckily the app can mitigate lots of these issues

it would help if I actually knew what the EQ presets were actually doing. Who the hell wants a "New Age" EQ preset anyways? No one usese EQ like that.


----------



## Odioer

DigDub said:


> Sorry, I do not have any of those. The closest I have is the qcy t1c. The qcy t1c sounds fun with big bass. The truedot is flatter sounding.


I have the QCY T2C/QS2. They are fun indeed and were my first TWS and what a start it was, thanks to scarbir.com

I'd take a flatter response if it helps achieve more details. I've ordered the GT1 PLUS and probably will wait for someone to confirm if they sound the same as both quote bio-membrane 7.2 mm drivers & qcy, haylou & soundpeats probably being related.



Caipirina said:


> Not seeing it on AE yet ... i am getting really confused with all the different SoundPEATS ofefrings ... trying to figure out i.e. the diff between the Truedots and the Truefree+ ...


The truefree+ are rebranded QCY QS2.


----------



## Caipirina

TheLionelHutz said:


> I tried the Truengine SE because I like the Phaiser Fusion Ones so much.  Also an aptX dual-driver design, but I was hoping to like the TE SE shape better.  But I didn't like the shape and the sound wasn't even close to comparable.  The Phaisers are much, much better - better, tighter bass, better separation, better upper clarity, better soundstage.


Those Phaisers look like a rebrand of the Syllable S101, which i do like a lot. And that was also my thought. Like this dual driver, will hopefully like that one as well ...  thanks for the heads up


----------



## nihontoman

Caipirina said:


> how did you get the Alien Sectrets cheap? how cheap?


I mean't that I got it cheaper (~33$) than the current asking price of the gt1 plus (47$). also, on taht note, seems like there are two different versions of white alien secrets - one that is all white and butt ugly and one  that looks much closer to the promo pics. I saw a review on ali that no matter how you look at it, shows a two tone white model in the pics:


----------



## MyPants (Mar 5, 2020)

My review of the sound quality between the Galaxy Buds+ and the OG Galaxy Buds


----------



## TheLionelHutz

Caipirina said:


> Those Phaisers look like a rebrand of the Syllable S101, which i do like a lot. And that was also my thought. Like this dual driver, will hopefully like that one as well ...  thanks for the heads up


It's a similar design, but the Phaiser drivers are 8mm to the Syllables' 6mm.  Haven't tried the Syllables, but I did try the Wolfblitz version of this design, also with 6mm drivers, and like the Soundpeats (similar 6mm driver unit) I didn't think they had the same dimensionality, separation, depth or clarity as the Phaisers. YMMV, obviously, that was just my impression.


----------



## Kulch (Mar 5, 2020)

Wow!!! the custom eq on the liberty air 2 has changed everything, if u find the right setting you can find your HearID x 5. Forget HearID, forget signature sound and their presets, find your sound via the eq. It's like steroids being pumped into the TWS, it's blown anything I have ever used prior, out of the water (ibasso it01 and shure 215s). Here are my settings, I've been able to dial into a setting which is like the piano preset but with more lows and bass and it's incredible. I'm still tinkering, I'm curious what others use for their LP2s.


----------



## Peddler

jasonb said:


> A few days later and I'm still liking these Lypertek Tevi's a lot. The default sound with no EQ is perfect for my tastes. The bass isn't overdone and the clarity is great overall.



I currently have three of the best true wireless headphones currently available in my opinion. The Sony WF1000XM3'S, the Lypertek Tevi's and the Mavin Air-X - and whilst I really do like the sound character of the Sony's, I think that the Tevi's are more accurate sounding. the Sony's sound like a pair of full sized headphones - having a wide soundstage whereas the Tevi's are more like the good old Etymotic ER4S - and that's very high praise.


----------



## harpdoc

bronco1015 said:


> hey all, am super behind on this thread, but wanted to share something i just discovered. For those who have LG phones, you might be annoyed like me that they almost always default to AAC. I've been wondering for a few days now, if i left a headset paired to the phone after switching to APTX, then power up a different TWE that's also capable of APTX, would the phone continue streaming in APTX, or would i have to go back into dev options and switch it again? i switched my Bomaker SiFi from AAC to APTX, heard the short pause as it switched, then let it stream for a minute or so. Then i pulled out my nuarl N6 Pro, while still leaving the SiFi paired, and, it was still streaming in APTX! There is a distinct difference in SQ with the N6P in AAC vs APTX on my V40, but just to make sure i wasn't hearing things, i went back into develloper options and selected APTX as the streaming codec, and instead of a brief pause as is common when switching from 1 codec to another, the music kept on going.
> i just wanted to share because usually when i switch i power one off then pull out the next pair and have to go through that whole process of switching codecs again.



When i had Galaxy Buds+, my LG V50 defaulted to AAC, which sounded a little better than SBC (but not good enough to keep them). With my Master & Dynamics, it defaults to aptX. With an old cheap pair that claimed to have aptX, it defaults to SBC. I suspect that this is because, even though they advertised as having aptX, they really don't. YMMV


----------



## jant71

https://www.linsoul.com/pages/kz-s2
What is wrong with them...



Seriously, 20mA? Why does does KZ keep thinking 3 hour battery life is good or enough. Maybe a bit hard to fit a 70 or 80 in a hybrid design but at least fit a 55 in there.


----------



## C_Lindbergh

I just wish more TWS had: 

Ambient Mode
Button instead of touch
Wireless charging
APTX
Decent Battery
Multi point (I only know of 2 brands that have this feature, Jabra and First Gen M&D)


----------



## sanity8me

TheLionelHutz said:


> I think I've found tip nirvana! Just got some Symbio Ws in today's mail - memory foam core, silicone sleeve.  They fit as easily and securely as my Spinfit 360s, but they have great isolation and zero-thunk like foam, without having to mold and hold.  I actually had to EQ down the bass on my N6s because these accentuated it a little too much.  These things are awesome.



Very interesting find. Would these work with the mw07 plus?


----------



## Caipirina

TheLionelHutz said:


> It's a similar design, but the Phaiser drivers are 8mm to the Syllables' 6mm.  Haven't tried the Syllables, but I did try the Wolfblitz version of this design, also with 6mm drivers, and like the Soundpeats (similar 6mm driver unit) I didn't think they had the same dimensionality, separation, depth or clarity as the Phaisers. YMMV, obviously, that was just my impression.


Very interesting ... makes me wonder though ... I've head long time suspicions about those driver size claims (in general) ... is there actually anyone out there opening up TWS and check those claims?  Would be interesting to compare the Phaisers physically with a set of the 6mm ones ... somehow Phaiser would have had to create extra space 4mm in height and 2mm in width ...


----------



## Caipirina

C_Lindbergh said:


> I just wish more TWS had:
> 
> Ambient Mode
> Button instead of touch
> ...



Very much supporting the actual button vs. touch fields ... kinda funny how YT reviewers tout each as a plus, depending what they review right then ... 
Always happy to see AptX, which was not that important for me in the past, since I am on iOS, but since I discovered that 3 of my DAPs do AptX, I am now looking more for that.
Battery is a nice have, but my listening sessions are usually not that long ... but I sure enjoyed the massive battery life of the PowerBeats Pro on a marathon last Sunday, not having to worry to ever run out of music. 
I saw on recent Jabra 75 (JRR) review that even there the multi point is kinda wonky. One thing I would love to see in the future is the ability to share BT signal to other buds (and not just among airpod pros)


----------



## Caipirina

jant71 said:


> https://www.linsoul.com/pages/kz-s2
> What is wrong with them...
> 
> Seriously, 20mA? Why does does KZ keep thinking 3 hour battery life is good or enough. Maybe a bit hard to fit a 70 or 80 in a hybrid design but at least fit a 55 in there.


Text should read "with the KZS2 the fun stops after 3h. Enjoy a 20mAh battery while it lasts."


Consistency in those descriptions is never that great ... or they mean 2x20?


----------



## caprimulgus

DigDub said:


> I have both the truedot and the trueengine se. I like the truedot better than the trueengine se. Truedot has better clarity and overall better value for money.



Which has more bass (quantity)?


----------



## Caipirina

caprimulgus said:


> Which has more bass (quantity)?


Scarbir's headline says all I guess: 
"*SoundPEATS TrueEngine SE review: Nothing but bass"*


----------



## tma6 (Mar 5, 2020)

Not going to get too ahead of myself, but I've been using the AuSounds Hybrid a little more over the past day or so and my impressions have improved. Sound has smoothed out a bit after about 10 hours of burn in/ use. Maybe the titanium drivers needed some time to warm up. I'm going to keep using them this weekend and see how I feel. The call quality is decent, though it takes like 3-4 seconds to recognize and cut out background noise, which is kinda weird and it's not always consistent so sometimes background noise can get a bit loud for the other end. The actual mic quality is solid though, and if you're in a quiet environment it's great. The ANC doesn't do well with wind-noise, but I feel like a lot of ANC earbuds might struggle with this. On subway it works decently. What they've nailed is the low-profile lightweight form factor, good comfort, and case size/feel. Def not sold yet though - the N6 Pros definitely sound better.


----------



## tma6 (Mar 5, 2020)

AuSounds Hybrid definitely need some EQ to tamp down the 1-2k region


----------



## Ascariss

Caipirina said:


> I remember finding the WF1000xm3 on aptx.com  and asked about that here a while ago (since every other source said that they can't do aptx)
> 
> So, we still don't really know, but rather not?


 
It is more of a question if Qualcomm would provide/license Sony with the necessary codecs (receiver) for the chip in the WF-1000XM3. It would not be in Qualcomm's best interest to do that, and they'd rather Sony buy Qualcomm's BT chips with aptX support included.

From my investigating, that WF-1000XM3 page on the aptX was online since February 14th. If it was a mistake, it should have been removed but it was up for 2 weeks. The photo from the WF-1000XM3 page is still on Qualcomm's server, so either they didn't delete (likely) it or an update to aptX is still coming. I am hopeful but doubt it. The odd thing is, this happened on Qualcomm's own aptX site, and not some third party site, so why they would put it up without confirming this is puzzling.

Qualcomm has provided the necessary aptX codec for their older walkmans (A30, A40,A50, ZX500), since they all could work with aptX headphones, even though their Bluetooth chips were mediatek based and not from Qualcomm. So I suspect Qualcomm has no issue with providing manufacturers with access to the aptX codec (transmission) since then these products are compatible with headphones using Qualcomm's BT chips with atpX support. There are countless other media players that also support aptX, and I am sure not all of them use Qualcomm's BT chips.

So unless Qualcomm has changed their mind or come to some agreement with Sony regarding aptX support on the WF-1000XM3, I do not think we will see aptX on them. I feel LDAC is more likley (330 option) rather than aptX but I heard that is planned for the successor, WF-1000XM4. Sony could add LDAC at this very moment to the WF-1000XM3 but because battery life would take a big hit, they decided not to include it, since lackluster battery life was one complaint with the first generation WF-1000X and Sony's goal was to fix this.

As for the chip in the WF-1000XM3, it is a Mediatek MT2811, so this is why no baked in aptX support. Quite a few other Sony headsets are on this platform, all of the h.ear on 3 line and WI-1000XM2, with at least 1 or 2 more upcoming truly wireless headsets as well (WF-SP800N, WF-XB700). Sony has dropped aptX support on the account of the new chip, h.ear on 3 and WI-1000XM2 all lack aptx, but do include LDAC.


----------



## Darkestred

Kulch said:


> Wow!!! the custom eq on the liberty air 2 has changed everything, if u find the right setting you can find your HearID x 5. Forget HearID, forget signature sound and their presets, find your sound via the eq. It's like steroids being pumped into the TWS, it's blown anything I have ever used prior, out of the water (ibasso it01 and shure 215s). Here are my settings, I've been able to dial into a setting which is like the piano preset but with more lows and bass and it's incredible. I'm still tinkering, I'm curious what others use for their LP2s.



I use Poweramp's eq. Am i missing anything not using this app?


----------



## harpdoc

sanity8me said:


> Very interesting find. Would these work with the mw07 plus?



Just got some Symbios to try with my WM07 Plus. Found them uncomfortable. But everyone's ears are different.


----------



## scarfacegt

Anyone here tried spinfits with jabra ( spinfit cp360 )? Jabra elite 65t/active,elite 75t/active?


----------



## Caipirina

On the topic of the SoundPEATs True Dot now having AptX ... I contacted the seller on AE (“official store”) and this is what they replied to me pointing at the regular True Dot listing ...


I still have some reservations though. The listing doesn’t say AptX ... can I dispute showing just the conversation as proof? Do I need another set of TWE? Won’t they sound just like the Haylou GT1 plus? Is the earth really flat?
So many questions ...


----------



## marcus2704

KarimLeVallois said:


> What source are you using? I was having the opposite regarding a connection around London.



Currently I am using a LGV40 with my W07 Plus.  Almost a week, and not even a momentary blip so far, I am thoroughly impressed by these.


----------



## nihontoman

Just downloaded some intel Bluetooth audio driver on my PC so that it supports APTX now, and BOY does it make a difference with the old aptx kz Bluetooth cable connected to the V1 KZ ZS5. to anyone who uses PC as a source for their aptx TWS, try it! you won't regret.


----------



## DigDub (Mar 6, 2020)

caprimulgus said:


> Which has more bass (quantity)?


Trueengine se has more bass quantity, but it's muddy and too warm for my liking.


----------



## malfario

Caipirina said:


> On the topic of the SoundPEATs True Dot now having AptX ... I contacted the seller on AE (“official store”) and this is what they replied to me pointing at the regular True Dot listing ...
> 
> 
> I still have some reservations though. The listing doesn’t say AptX ... can I dispute showing just the conversation as proof? Do I need another set of TWE? Won’t they sound just like the Haylou GT1 plus? Is the earth really flat?
> So many questions ...



It seems scarbir.com has the GT1 on his way, I'm sure we'll have a comparison soon.


----------



## Caipirina

malfario said:


> It seems scarbir.com has the GT1 on his way, I'm sure we'll have a comparison soon.


But seems his True Dot is the non-aptx version ... https://www.scarbir.com/tws/soundpeats-truedot-review


----------



## malfario

Caipirina said:


> But seems his True Dot is the non-aptx version ... https://www.scarbir.com/tws/soundpeats-truedot-review



Dang!


----------



## Caipirina

malfario said:


> Dang!


if all goes well i shall have both in 3-4-5 weeks time (mail time currently is crazy ... still waiting for stuff that left China feb 18), and my old brass ears won't be able to hear a difference


----------



## Caipirina

Dang! Looks like Facebook finally listened in to my online chatter long enough to realize what I am into! And now I am getting the full blast of TWS ads!!!!


what mindboggles me is: those are all older, cheaper models, they are now getting the top tier snake oil marketing treatment for those who never heard of AliExpress/GB/banggood.
I wonder if the guy from unbox therapy is aware of him being used for this. I actually watched that black pods video a while ago and he also says that in this market you never know which one you get... (regarding any kind of AirPods clones) 

the other other reason why I barely check Facebook anymore.  Every 3rd post is an ad now ...


----------



## KarimLeVallois

marcus2704 said:


> Currently I am using a LGV40 with my W07 Plus.  Almost a week, and not even a momentary blip so far, I am thoroughly impressed by these.



Ok, must not play nicely with iPhones then.


----------



## rr12267

scarfacegt said:


> Anyone here tried spinfits with jabra ( spinfit cp360 )? Jabra elite 65t/active,elite 75t/active?



I had the 65t’s and for me the cp-360’s were a big improvement in seal and isolation and also brought out better overall tonality.  Unfortunately I had to return mine due to them having a hard time pairing and consistent dropouts. These were bought as a refurbished pair off amazon.


----------



## johnston21 (Mar 6, 2020)

Seems the Klipsch T5, Noble Falcon, and the Nakamichi TW3X all have similar shells.


----------



## sanity8me (Mar 6, 2020)

harpdoc said:


> Just got some Symbios to try with my WM07 Plus. Found them uncomfortable. But everyone's ears are different.



Thanks for sharing. Were these the W versions?

Any luck with other tips in comparison to the stock ones?

Anyone else try other tips for the MW07/Plus?  Would be interested in better isolation and tighter bass.


----------



## TheLionelHutz

harpdoc said:


> Just got some Symbios to try with my WM07 Plus. Found them uncomfortable. But everyone's ears are different.


Bummer. Loving my Ws still.  Took some getting used to.


----------



## erockg

Well, finally, Klipsch just released the Klipsch Connect App.  Let's see if this firmware update fixes anything.  Not optimistic...


----------



## TheLionelHutz

johnston21 said:


> Seems the Klipsch T5, Noble Falcon, and the Nakamichi TW3X all have similar shells.


Sorry, huh?


----------



## johnston21 (Mar 6, 2020)

Well, the earbuds' shape are similar between the 3, noting that they appear to have to have the same barrel/tips designs...Please don't mistake this for me saying that they have the same innards or tuning (as I am not).


----------



## johnston21 (Mar 6, 2020)

Updating the T5's firmware now via the ios app. R earbud is selected 1'st. Seems stuck at 44%.

On the Android app, can't get past the Registration page as the Product Variant selection (mandatory) is blank.


----------



## erockg

johnston21 said:


> Updating the T5's firmware now via the ios app. R earbud is selected 1'st. Seems stuck at 44%.
> 
> On the Android app, can't get past the Registration page as the Product Variant selection (mandatory) is blank.


I did one at a time.  R then L.  Worked for me.  Diggin' the EQ.  But curious when they'll add Transparency/Passthrough as promised.


----------



## TheLionelHutz

Ordered a pair of the B530 Pro, have been curious about those for a while. I've been curious about the Rimor with the 10mm drivers, too, but no aptX is a hard sell for me.


----------



## johnston21

Update completed successfully (via iOS). Android app does seem to be borked. Please mention if otherwise, re: Product Variant registration.


----------



## erockg

johnston21 said:


> Update completed successfully (via iOS). Android app does seem to be borked. Please mention if otherwise, re: Product Variant registration.


iOS here as well.


----------



## paddyberger

I just got pushed a new firmware for the L2P. Treble improvements and bug fixes by the looks of it.


----------



## vaaccess

Eisenhower said:


> Bought the Fiil t1x's. ... Luckily the app can mitigate lots of these issues
> 
> it would help if I actually knew what the EQ presets were actually doing. Who the hell wants a "New Age" EQ preset anyways? No one usese EQ like that.



As i was reading your post, I was going to say that the app does allow you to change the sensitivity, but looks like you figured it out.  Just want to also agree wholeheartedly that the EQ presets are frustrating.  Perhaps it was easier for them to hard-code presets versus allowing modification of the EQ on-the-fly...That said, I find the EQ both effective and frustrating.


----------



## vaaccess (Mar 6, 2020)

Many posts ago, I was comparing between the 1Tx and the Mifo o7.  And, in my mind the Mifo was superior for many reasons.  But, the 1Tx I had was particularly hindered because of bad driver flex and I returned them and wrote an accurate review of both.

Fast-forward through emails and conversations with FiiL, I wanted to share my recent experiences.  FilL admitted that they had a production issue and had found a new supplier/manufacturer.  They asked me to re-review their 1Tx after sending me another pair.  I just PnP'd them and have some initial thoughts, but am holding out updating my initial review until I finish burning them in.

The good news is that the pair they sent doesn't have Driver Flex, so either I randomly got a good pair of they in fact fixed the problem.

While the volume can get much louder on the 1Tx, I found the sound signature harsh on the top end, but the bass is not overly boomy...yet prominent.  Their "original" EQ sound signature is very U-Shaped.  So, while this is a good thing if your a bass-head and prefer that strong "u" signature, I personally prefer the flat curve with a tight bass that does not bleed or overwhelm and the Mifo o7 just crushes that sound profile for me.  If anything, this test has made me realize how much I love the Mifo o7's.

That said, I am definitely going to burn the 1Tx in to see if it reduces the treble harshness and will play around with the EQ profiles to see if I find one that is good, but, I really hope they consider improving their app/firmware to allow for a custom EQ...Because I think if I could tweak it exactly to my liking they would be a really nice TWS.  Until then, they are absolutely superb in their price range, but for me can't touch the Mifo o7.


----------



## tma6 (Mar 6, 2020)

Definitely starting to change my mind about the ausounds hybrid. They absolutely need at least 20-30 hours of burn in but they are starting to sound pretty damn good. The harshness at the top end has softened a little and the bass has developed real depth. Tried ANC today on a 2.5 hour train ride and it worked nicely, was definitely able to listen at lower volumes than usual. Pretty much no difference in sound w ANC on vs off. Ambient mode also works pretty decently. Really love the case, it feels premium and fits in that small pocket in my jeans which was something I really missed after returning the AirPods Pro. These sound better than the APP tho imo. Battery life has been better than expected. The low profile of the buds is also great and they’ve been comfy, they don’t go too deep into the ears. No volume controls still kind of annoying. I’m probably going to do a full review after about a week or so more of testing.


----------



## voicemaster

vaaccess said:


> Many posts ago, I was comparing between the 1Tx and the Mifo o7.  And, in my mind the Mifo was superior for many reasons.  But, the 1Tx I had was particularly hindered because of bad driver flex and I returned them and wrote an accurate review of both.
> 
> Fast-forward through emails and conversations with FiiL, I wanted to share my recent experiences.  FilL admitted that they had a production issue and had found a new supplier/manufacturer.  They asked me to re-review their 1Tx after sending me another pair.  I just PnP'd them and have some initial thoughts, but am holding out updating my initial review until I finish burning them in.
> 
> ...


Two different sound profile imho. I have both and enjoy them both for different occasions. You can tamed the high end by using a modded foam tips for t1x tho in my experience, mine doesn't sound harsh anymore after 100+ hours of usage. It might be just my brain adjusting to it I don't know. For EQ, I usually just use "bass" or "flat".


----------



## genck

tma6 said:


> Definitely starting to change my mind about the ausounds hybrid. They absolutely need at least 20-30 hours of burn in but they are starting to sound pretty damn good. The harshness at the top end has softened a little and the bass has developed real depth. Tried ANC today on a 2.5 hour train ride and it worked nicely, was definitely able to listen at lower volumes than usual. Pretty much no difference in sound w ANC on vs off. Ambient mode also works pretty decently. Really love the case, it feels premium and fits in that small pocket in my jeans which was something I really missed after returning the AirPods Pro. These sound better than the APP tho imo. Battery life has been better than expected. The low profile of the buds is also great and they’ve been comfy, they don’t go too deep into the ears. No volume controls still kind of annoying. I’m probably going to do a full review after about a week or so more of testing.


There wasn't any burn in, you got used to the sound. Or you had expectation bias, sorry bro.


----------



## tma6

genck said:


> There wasn't any burn in, you got used to the sound. Or you had expectation bias, sorry bro.



Fair enough. Sounded better to me after a few days than on day one.


----------



## harpdoc

sanity8me said:


> Thanks for sharing. Were these the W versions?
> 
> Any luck with other tips in comparison to the stock ones?
> 
> Anyone else try other tips for the MW07/Plus?  Would be interested in better isolation and tighter bass.



Yes, they were the W. I have a couple other pairs of W's on other buds. I don't find them super comfortable, but good sound and comfy enough. But not with the WM07 for me. But ears are shaped so differently, they might feel great in your ears.

I have some cheap black foam ones that sound and fit well. Comply makes a model that is supposed to be good with the WM07 Plus. I'll bet they would be nice.


----------



## d3myz

Well, here's to catching up. I will say it's rather nice to see that not much has changed, but also disappointing. As @clerkpalmer mentioned, it seems like a slow year for TWS and Everyone still seems to be talking about the same TWS' we were several months ago with a few exceptions, so that calms my FOMO. 




clerkpalmer said:


> With this new platform I don't get all the emails anymore.  Anything new worth trying? Seems like a slow year for TWS.



I'm with you. It's actually pretty annoying. I got used to getting lots of e-mails everyday from this thread. 



tma6 said:


> The obsession continues.. Just ordered these Boltune ANC TWS: https://www.amazon.com/Boltune-Cancelling-Headphones-Bluetooth-Earphones/dp/B08395B6RB/ref=sr_1_7?crid=1OB7DVGD4ZYNK&keywords=boltune+wireless+headphones+anc&qid=1583350151&sprefix=boltune,aps,154&sr=8-7
> 
> Should be arriving early next week. They sound a bit too good to be true on paper particularly for the price, but will report back w my impressions!



I'm very interested to hear your impressions. I have These Boltunes and for the money, the ANC and the sound quality are borderline excellent. I've mentioned this before but the Black version doesn't have the same sound quality as the beige. I've tried 2 pair of the beige and one black and the beige just sounds much better. 



TheLionelHutz said:


> I think I've found tip nirvana! Just got some Symbio Ws in today's mail - memory foam core, silicone sleeve.  They fit as easily and securely as my Spinfit 360s, but they have great isolation and zero-thunk like foam, without having to mold and hold.  I actually had to EQ down the bass on my N6s because these accentuated it a little too much.  These things are awesome.



I loved my Symbio's when I got them, but after a while they just hurt my ears and on most of my TWS' the significantly alter the sound signature closing it off. I prefer wide bore tips. like the JVC Spiral dots and the Auvio's from Radio Shack. I also like the tips that came with the N6 and N6p, but the seem to push the mids a bit more forward.



genck said:


> There wasn't any burn in, you got used to the sound. Or you had expectation bias, sorry bro.


Way to harsh the vibe, bro. I'm not discrediting the brain's adaptation to a sound signature after a user listens to them for a period of time and ear fatigue etc, Those are definitely scientifically proven, but I for one can attest that I have spent hours and weeks burning in TWS' and comparing them to identical sets w/o burn in. There is clearly a difference in some models. The sound signature of the FIIL T1x, Tranya B530 and the Anbes 359/SSK BT-01 irrefutably change after prolonged usage.


----------



## d3myz

I'm going to post this again, because I haven't seen much talk about any of the new ANC TWS' besides the Cleer Ally Plus, 1more ANC, Edifier ANC, Dyplay (which I tried and they were fine for the money but had an odd fit and the ANC was about as good as the Echo Buds w/o the passive isolation and had no ambient/transparency mode. Oh and the sound quality was just bass and more bass) So, anyone else tried any of the new ANC TWS' @hifi80sman, @tma6, @mattedialdoc, @gibletzor, @cwill @clerkpalmer where did all my homies go?


----------



## tma6

d3myz said:


> I'm going to post this again, because I haven't seen much talk about any of the new ANC TWS' besides the Cleer Ally Plus, 1more ANC, Edifier ANC, Dyplay (which I tried and they were fine for the money but had an odd fit and the ANC was about as good as the Echo Buds w/o the passive isolation and had no ambient/transparency mode. Oh and the sound quality was just bass and more bass) So, anyone else tried any of the new ANC TWS' @hifi80sman, @tma6, @mattedialdoc, @gibletzor, @cwill @clerkpalmer where did all my homies go?



Yooo glad to have you back man. I went mia for a bit too. Will def let you know bout the Boltune ANC buds when I get them in hand. I’d start taking notice of these AuSound Hybrids too. Not totally sold yet, but there are certain things I really like about them. Will def be writing a full review after a week or so if work dies down a little


----------



## RobinFood

d3myz said:


> I'm going to post this again, because I haven't seen much talk about any of the new ANC TWS' besides the Cleer Ally Plus, 1more ANC, Edifier ANC, Dyplay (which I tried and they were fine for the money but had an odd fit and the ANC was about as good as the Echo Buds w/o the passive isolation and had no ambient/transparency mode. Oh and the sound quality was just bass and more bass) So, anyone else tried any of the new ANC TWS' @hifi80sman, @tma6, @mattedialdoc, @gibletzor, @cwill @clerkpalmer where did all my homies go?



I've been enjoying the Sony buds immensely. Still getting used to their quirks but they let me enjoy music in just about any setting.
I'm really looking forward to the technics release next month but with all the Corona virus measures going on I don't I will be able to give them a listen...


----------



## marcus2704 (Mar 7, 2020)

What TWS buds offer higher levels of maximum volumes, happy to spend up to £300 or so.  I have MW07 Plus and in every area they are great but having to listen to these on Max all the time is a shame as it leaves no headroom.  I have tried a number of TWS and find the volume level to always be limited.

/Edit - I will take a look at volume booster apps of which there are many.  Appreciate app recommendations


----------



## FYLegend

Ascariss said:


> It is more of a question if Qualcomm would provide/license Sony with the necessary codecs (receiver) for the chip in the WF-1000XM3. It would not be in Qualcomm's best interest to do that, and they'd rather Sony buy Qualcomm's BT chips with aptX support included.
> 
> From my investigating, that WF-1000XM3 page on the aptX was online since February 14th. If it was a mistake, it should have been removed but it was up for 2 weeks. The photo from the WF-1000XM3 page is still on Qualcomm's server, so either they didn't delete (likely) it or an update to aptX is still coming. I am hopeful but doubt it. The odd thing is, this happened on Qualcomm's own aptX site, and not some third party site, so why they would put it up without confirming this is puzzling.
> 
> ...


Is there a non-Qualcomm/CSR TWS that currently supports AptX codec? If they don't want to bring it to non-Qualcomm chips, it might be because they want to tout the "True Wireless Stereo Plus" feature exclusively on their chips.

Aside from _potentially_ higher quality audio or lower latency, and the fact that Windows 10 doesn't support AAC, I really don't see much hype in the QCC3020. I saw many reviews touting single-bud use but it is clunky compared to solutions by Realtek/Airoha. You'd expect a TWS with independent connections to simply turn one of them off instead of pausing everything. Only El Jefe's recent Top 5 list really took note of this issue.

It's also interesting the Audio-Technica ATH-CK3TW supports AptX but not AAC. If they're using QCC3020, I strongly suspect they disabled it intentionally.

I'm wondering if anyone here has fiddled around with the Gaia Control app. It seems to be a way to get into the backend of CSR chips and update firmware...


----------



## scarfacegt

rr12267 said:


> I had the 65t’s and for me the cp-360’s were a big improvement in seal and isolation and also brought out better overall tonality.  Unfortunately I had to return mine due to them having a hard time pairing and consistent dropouts. These were bought as a refurbished pair off amazon.



Thanks for reply. I might just have to buy some then


----------



## webvan

Doesn't work for everyone though, I sold my 65Ts since I had no use for them anymore but the CP-360 made them stick out more and they didn't isolate as well. Generally speaking putting the CP-360s on most of my TWS they seem to work better at first but problems quickly appear (isolation, "trebly" sound, and I go back to other tips, often the original ones.


----------



## d3myz

tma6 said:


> Yooo glad to have you back man. I went mia for a bit too. Will def let you know bout the Boltune ANC buds when I get them in hand. I’d start taking notice of these AuSound Hybrids too. Not totally sold yet, but there are certain things I really like about them. Will def be writing a full review after a week or so if work dies down a little


Thanks, Man. It's good to be back.  I'll have to check out those Ausound Hybrids. 



RobinFood said:


> I've been enjoying the Sony buds immensely. Still getting used to their quirks but they let me enjoy music in just about any setting.
> I'm really looking forward to the technics release next month but with all the Corona virus measures going on I don't I will be able to give them a listen...


Are you referring to the XM3's? I do like mine. If so, I use mine whenever my APPs are dead or when I want to listen to music and need ANC/Ambient mode. With certain tips like the Symbio's w/ memory foam or the Ikko mem foam tips. the ANC is excellent and I think it's actually better than the APPs, but the ambient mode really pails in comparison to the AirPods Pro and I can't


----------



## Caipirina

d3myz said:


> I'm going to post this again, because I haven't seen much talk about any of the new ANC TWS' besides the Cleer Ally Plus, 1more ANC, Edifier ANC, Dyplay (which I tried and they were fine for the money but had an odd fit and the ANC was about as good as the Echo Buds w/o the passive isolation and had no ambient/transparency mode. Oh and the sound quality was just bass and more bass) So, anyone else tried any of the new ANC TWS'



Very much waiting for Bose for finally rlsing their earbud 700


----------



## hifi80sman

d3myz said:


> I'm going to post this again, because I haven't seen much talk about any of the new ANC TWS' besides the Cleer Ally Plus, 1more ANC, Edifier ANC, Dyplay (which I tried and they were fine for the money but had an odd fit and the ANC was about as good as the Echo Buds w/o the passive isolation and had no ambient/transparency mode. Oh and the sound quality was just bass and more bass) So, anyone else tried any of the new ANC TWS' @hifi80sman, @tma6, @mattedialdoc, @gibletzor, @cwill @clerkpalmer where did all my homies go?


Right now, I'm waiting for the new Bose and the new Klipsch T5 II & T5 ANC (the latter pictured below).  In the meantime, I've picked up the Sony MDR-Z7M2 and have been experimenting with different portable DACs (FiiO Q5s, FiiO BTR5, Shanling UP4).  I also have picked up various over-ear options and have been messing around with those.


----------



## willyk

TheLionelHutz said:


> Ordered a pair of the B530 Pro, have been curious about those for a while. I've been curious about the Rimor with the 10mm drivers, too, but no aptX is a hard sell for me.



I've got two pair of the regular B530's, and they are very nice.  I've also got 2 pair of the Rimors which I absolutely love.  They've gotten mixed reviews on this forum.  For me, they are the flattest eq I've heard in a TWS - extremely detailed with a broad soundstage.  The 10mm drivers produce bass very accurately, and can go to the lowest registers with no over-hyping of bass, and are very articulate.  Other TWS's over-hype the upper-bass, which gives the illusion for some to be a "full sound".  Again, for me, it's hard to go back to my other TWS's after using the Rimors, as they just sound a bit muddy and congested in comparison.  As a Samsung 10+ owner, I prefer aptX, but I don't miss it with the Rimors - for what that's worth.

Also, it looks like Tranya has a 50% off sale now.  I don't know if that's 50% of msrp or their usual sale price.


----------



## hifi80sman

tma6 said:


> Yooo glad to have you back man. I went mia for a bit too. Will def let you know bout the Boltune ANC buds when I get them in hand. I’d start taking notice of these AuSound Hybrids too. Not totally sold yet, but there are certain things I really like about them. Will def be writing a full review after a week or so if work dies down a little


Looks like Nuhera has some new 'buds coming out soon.


----------



## erockg

For those who have the Klipsch T5 true wireless.  I updated with the app and now when I pause music for a few minutes the headphones lost connection and power off.  Tried resetting and repairing, but nothing fixes the issue.  Real bummer.


----------



## hifi80sman

erockg said:


> For those who have the Klipsch T5 true wireless.  I updated with the app and now when I pause music for a few minutes the headphones lost connection and power off.  Tried resetting and repairing, but nothing fixes the issue.  Real bummer.


Meh, has some issues with the T5, including secure fit, so waiting for the updated version which supposedly corrects the ergonomics.


----------



## erockg

hifi80sman said:


> Meh, has some issues with the T5, including secure fit, so waiting for the updated version which supposedly corrects the ergonomics.


We can only hope...


----------



## tma6

hifi80sman said:


> Looks like Nuhera has some new 'buds coming out soon.



Yeah I saw these, not sure what the deal is w the pricing though. Seems like the higher price might be due to enhanced hearing tech rather than improved SQ. Definitely intrigued though. Could have great ANC.


----------



## nihontoman

Just ordered some QCY T5s for my wife. should be a good fit for her tiny ears but if not, I'll have another set of tws iems to play with


----------



## georgelai57

A review worth reading https://audiobacon.net/2020/03/07/best-true-wireless-earphones-for-sound-quality/


----------



## Ascariss

FYLegend said:


> Is there a non-Qualcomm/CSR TWS that currently supports AptX codec? If they don't want to bring it to non-Qualcomm chips, it might be because they want to tout the "True Wireless Stereo Plus" feature exclusively on their chips.
> 
> Aside from _potentially_ higher quality audio or lower latency, and the fact that Windows 10 doesn't support AAC, I really don't see much hype in the QCC3020. I saw many reviews touting single-bud use but it is clunky compared to solutions by Realtek/Airoha. You'd expect a TWS with independent connections to simply turn one of them off instead of pausing everything. Only El Jefe's recent Top 5 list really took note of this issue.
> 
> ...



This is one reason Sony moved away from Qualcomm, in order to have truly wireless with Qualcomm's BT chips, the smartphone (or device) would need to use a high end Snapdragon SoC, either 845 or higher or the new 855, I do not recall. So this basically eliminates all iphones, ipods, walkmans from sony, and other media players. Sony did not want this, so they approached Mediatek/Airoha to have a truly wireless BT chip that worked with all devices and models.

I don't think Qualcomm wants to license out aptX, maybe they will change their minds in the future, who knows.

AAC has license fees, so this is maybe why it was dropped by some.

https://www.via-corp.com/licensing/aac/license-fees/


----------



## jasonb (Mar 7, 2020)

Ascariss said:


> This is one reason Sony moved away from Qualcomm, in order to have truly wireless with Qualcomm's BT chips, the smartphone (or device) would need to use a high end Snapdragon SoC, either 845 or higher or the new 855, I do not recall. So this basically eliminates all iphones, ipods, walkmans from sony, and other media players. Sony did not want this, so they approached Mediatek/Airoha to have a truly wireless BT chip that worked with all devices and models.
> 
> I don't think Qualcomm wants to license out aptX, maybe they will change their minds in the future, who knows.
> 
> ...



I'm not sure I understand what you're getting at. The snapdragon 845 and newer Soc's can utilize Qualcomm's TWS+ which is each bud connecting to the phone separately.

The Lypertek Tevi for example supports this if your phone has an 845 or newer chip, but if the phone you're using doesn't support this you can still use the Tevi in a master/slave configuration with any phone and still have aptx or AAC.

So, Sony could have still used a Qualcomm chip and still had aptx and AAC and be compatible with any phone. 

If I'm understanding correctly, all true wireless with the exception of ones that support Qualcomm's TWS+ all work in a master/slave configuration where only one bud is connected to the phone, and the other channel is sent from one bud to the other.


----------



## gibletzor

TheLionelHutz said:


> Ordered a pair of the B530 Pro, have been curious about those for a while. I've been curious about the Rimor with the 10mm drivers, too, but no aptX is a hard sell for me.


Both versions of the B530 are better than the Rimors.  They're not bad, but don't bother for the extra money...


----------



## gibletzor

d3myz said:


> I'm going to post this again, because I haven't seen much talk about any of the new ANC TWS' besides the Cleer Ally Plus, 1more ANC, Edifier ANC, Dyplay (which I tried and they were fine for the money but had an odd fit and the ANC was about as good as the Echo Buds w/o the passive isolation and had no ambient/transparency mode. Oh and the sound quality was just bass and more bass) So, anyone else tried any of the new ANC TWS' @hifi80sman, @tma6, @mattedialdoc, @gibletzor, @cwill @clerkpalmer where did all my homies go?


I got really behind on keeping up with this because of the lack of full emails too!.  I just got my Gbuds+ a few days ago and putting them through the paces, but haven't been spending a whole lot of money on TWS lately.  Got a baby coming soon, so I have to behave with the wallet!


----------



## chinmie

jasonb said:


> I'm not sure I understand what you're getting at. The snapdragon 845 and newer Soc's can utilize Qualcomm's TWS+ which is each bud connecting to the phone separately.
> 
> The Lypertek Tevi for example supports this if your phone has an 845 or newer chip, but if the phone you're using doesn't support this you can still use the Tevi in a master/slave configuration with any phone and still have aptx or AAC.
> 
> ...



not quite.. in fact the newer Airoha chip TWS can work independently without master and slave. the giveaway to know this usually they connect to the device with one name only (no L and R designation on the name), and they can seamlessly continue to play music without breaking connection if we put either one in the case. BES chipset (which is rumored would be used in the new pixel buds) and the newer Realtek also can do this without needing snapdragon phones

so seeing that qualcomm TWS+ has a really small number of devices that support it while other competitors can do it with all device, it makes more sense for companies to use other chipset


----------



## Knightsfan11

Can foam tips be put onto the Galaxy Buds +?


----------



## go0gle

paddyberger said:


> I just got pushed a new firmware for the L2P. Treble improvements and bug fixes by the looks of it.



Very nice


----------



## webvan

go0gle said:


> Very nice





paddyberger said:


> I just got pushed a new firmware for the L2P. Treble improvements and bug fixes by the looks of it.



Thanks for the heads up. Wonder what kind of "bugs" there could be in a TWS...oh right, the noisefloor of the L2Ps (v2 for me), well no change there. Still a great listen overall !


----------



## FYLegend

Ascariss said:


> This is one reason Sony moved away from Qualcomm, in order to have truly wireless with Qualcomm's BT chips, the smartphone (or device) would need to use a high end Snapdragon SoC, either 845 or higher or the new 855, I do not recall. So this basically eliminates all iphones, ipods, walkmans from sony, and other media players. Sony did not want this, so they approached Mediatek/Airoha to have a truly wireless BT chip that worked with all devices and models.
> 
> I don't think Qualcomm wants to license out aptX, maybe they will change their minds in the future, who knows.
> 
> ...


Qualcomm chips work fine with non-Snapdragon devices, they just won't support TWS+ (Samsung, Huawei, Windows 10 to name a few) and/or AptX (only Apple off the top of my head). Even with a TWS+ device the single-bud switching is reportedly still clunky. I suspect Sony might have weighted in this usability issue as well.



jasonb said:


> If I'm understanding correctly, all true wireless with the exception of ones that support Qualcomm's TWS+ all work in a master/slave configuration where only one bud is connected to the phone, and the other channel is sent from one bud to the other.


Yes, but the single-bud switching of those Realtek or Airoha chips is far more seamless...



chinmie said:


> not quite.. in fact the newer Airoha chip TWS can work independently without master and slave. the giveaway to know this usually they connect to the device with one name only (no L and R designation on the name), and they can seamlessly continue to play music without breaking connection if we put either one in the case. BES chipset (which is rumored would be used in the new pixel buds) and the newer Realtek also can do this without needing snapdragon phones
> 
> so seeing that qualcomm TWS+ has a really small number of devices that support it while other competitors can do it with all device, it makes more sense for companies to use other chipset


Hmm... Is there any proof they are really not master slave? I'm under the impression they just switch the master when you switch buds in a more seamless manner than QCC3020 (in the meantime, they might also do a mono downmix).

I couldn't find what chip Jabees uses but I suspect it to be Airoha. It doesn't suffer from the death grip on my phone as some Realtek devices have, and has one of the best connections I've experienced, but is downright sloppy with Windows 10's SBC (starts stuttering when multitasking among other things).


----------



## aspirina750

Knightsfan11 said:


> Can foam tips be put onto the Galaxy Buds +?



Yes, the comply true wireless for the GB


----------



## vaaccess

I’m curious if anyone has directly compared the Mifo o7 to the more expensive mw07 or Sennheiser Momentum?


----------



## chinmie

FYLegend said:


> Hmm... Is there any proof they are really not master slave? I'm under the impression they just switch the master when you switch buds in a more seamless manner than QCC3020 (in the meantime, they might also do a mono downmix).
> 
> I couldn't find what chip Jabees uses but I suspect it to be Airoha. It doesn't suffer from the death grip on my phone as some Realtek devices have, and has one of the best connections I've experienced, but is downright sloppy with Windows 10's SBC (starts stuttering when multitasking among other things).



I'm basing it from product information on AE, that most newer TWS (not exclusive to qualcomm chip based ones) all have that picture that claim they have independent connection between each of the earpiece to the device.

if from experience, my XM3 and Dyplay (both use Airoha) and Galaxy buds (Broadcom chip) can all continuously play music without any stopping/skipping while putting one side in the case, taking it out again, and putting the other side in the case. my Airsun would have a slight skipping in that scenario.

my BT20S (qcc3020) would use master slave connection, but the master can be either the left or right, depending on which one's connected first to the device. if the slave turned off, the music still plays, but if the master side is turned off, the music would stop, and the slave would then connect as master to the device.

i haven't tested my son's QCY T5 which suppose to have Realtek chip.. maybe tomorrow. 

I'm using Note 8 phone that doesn't support qualcomm TWS+ scenario to test them. also to my experience, the Airoha ones (XM3 and Dyplay) and the QCC3020 (BT20S) have the best stability in connection and range. i don't think i ever have experienced signal skip with them so far. i have several signal skip with Realtek ones, and the BES chip one (Airsun) has the worst range, but stable when close


----------



## webvan (Mar 8, 2020)

Kulch said:


> Wow!!! the custom eq on the liberty air 2 has changed everything, if u find the right setting you can find your HearID x 5. Forget HearID, forget signature sound and their presets, find your sound via the eq. It's like steroids being pumped into the TWS, it's blown anything I have ever used prior, out of the water (ibasso it01 and shure 215s). Here are my settings, I've been able to dial into a setting which is like the piano preset but with more lows and bass and it's incredible. I'm still tinkering, I'm curious what others use for their LP2s.



I must say I'm pretty happy with the "HearID" profile although I'm not sure I'm doing the test right, hehe...Happier than with any of the presets in any case (except "Signature Soundcore" that sounds identical)

Anyway I've been experimenting with the custom EQ.
Is yours : +4 +2 0 -1 0 +1.5 (shows as +1) +2 ?


----------



## Caipirina

with the absence of anything really 'new' (it's all relative) and me being greedy, I am contemplating the Sabbat X12 Ultra ... extra qi charging and aptx ... who here did this upgrade and lives to tell about it?


----------



## chinmie

Caipirina said:


> with the absence of anything really 'new' (it's all relative) and me being greedy, I am contemplating the Sabbat X12 Ultra ... extra qi charging and aptx ... who here did this upgrade and lives to tell about it?



off topic, but might interest your thirst for open air styled TWS. if you have soldering skill or have access to someone who does, you can try this Edifier H185 modded to MMCX to pair with the BT20S. because of the slight angle on the body, it makes great fit using it over ears. it needs to be swapped left to right though, but other than that, it fits and sound great


----------



## Caipirina

chinmie said:


> off topic, but might interest your thirst for open air styled TWS. if you have soldering skill or have access to someone who does, you can try this Edifier H185 modded to MMCX to pair with the BT20S. because of the slight angle on the body, it makes great fit using it over ears. it needs to be swapped left to right though, but other than that, it fits and sound great


This looks pretty cool! I actually have those Edifiers... I also have a soldering kit... but no talent with it at all.

oh, speak of new, seems Auglamour has a new TWS. But other than the gold speckled paint job, I don’t see much that interests me. GB lists them as having app x, which I am pretty certain is wrong (none of the 5+ AE listings mention that)


----------



## TheLionelHutz (Mar 8, 2020)

gibletzor said:


> Both versions of the B530 are better than the Rimors.  They're not bad, but don't bother for the extra money...


I'm pretty happy with these B530Pros. Sound is a little bright and flat, but not shrill or lifeless. Good clarity and detail above 2k; enough volume but low detail below 1k. They are pretty comfortable, although I'm having trouble keeping the right one in. I'm burning then in for 10+ hours right now and then I'll probably try Comply or Spinfit tips to see if that helps it stay put. They don't sound as good as my Nuarls or Phaisars, but I like them better than the Monster Clarity 101s I wear for working out - better sound with similar IP rating and controls. If I can figure out the fit on the right these may replace the Monsters in my rotation.

I may yet try the Rimors just to see for myself, since it seems to be my mission to Try All the TWS.


----------



## johnston21

Got both the ios and finally the android v1.0.3 Kiplisch apps to work now.


----------



## paddyberger (Mar 8, 2020)

I’m really enjoying them too.

Would love to see some of the custom eqs that people are using. I’ll post mine for now to hopefully get the ball rolling.

EDIT Didn’t attach quotes but response to L2P firmware replies.


----------



## Kulch

webvan said:


> I must say I'm pretty happy with the "HearID" profile although I'm not sure I'm doing the test right, hehe...Happier than with any of the presets in any case (except "Signature Soundcore" that sounds identical)
> 
> Anyway I've been experimenting with the custom EQ.
> Is yours : +4 +2 0 -1 0 +1.5 (shows as +1) +2 ?



HearID was a bit strange for me, I could always hear the tone so I never unpressed the button, but the result was better than the other presets. Except piano. Piano is where it's at its just lacking some lows. 
I have tinkered with the eq some more and came up with this and its close to piano with more thump


----------



## Darth Plagueis the Wise

I think FiiO is making some kind of true wireless system with MMCX jacks. I hope they improve the uTWS a bit and then I'll get them for my 535s when Ithe virus thing dies down. I'd say there is more potential products coming so it's probably better to wait. I also hate how FiiO names their devices with the greek letter mu. 

I'd sacrifice a bit of sound quality for smart features like hand-free Google assistant, reading notifications out loud, and better mic. 

Also, 


clerkpalmer said:


> Does 5.0 offer any actual audio improvements?  I have read mixed reports.  AptxHD maybe requires 5.0?



I think it is mostly power management improvements besides typical distance and throughput improvements. It drastically decreased power consumption and enabled small devices to use Bluetooth for longer, basically enabling the whole TWS business. Also, it introduced dual play, which enables devices to play audio on separate Bluetooth devices, like L and R AirPods.


----------



## sanity8me

harpdoc said:


> Yes, they were the W. I have a couple other pairs of W's on other buds. I don't find them super comfortable, but good sound and comfy enough. But not with the WM07 for me. But ears are shaped so differently, they might feel great in your ears.
> 
> I have some cheap black foam ones that sound and fit well. Comply makes a model that is supposed to be good with the WM07 Plus. I'll bet they would be nice.



Has anyone tried those comply models on their mw07? Surprised tip experimentation on the very few already established SQ TWS kings isn't more of a big deal here.


----------



## willyk

TheLionelHutz said:


> I'm pretty happy with these B530Pros. Sound is a little bright and flat, but not shrill or lifeless. Good clarity and detail above 2k; enough volume but low detail below 1k. They are pretty comfortable, although I'm having trouble keeping the right one in. I'm burning then in for 10+ hours right now and then I'll probably try Comply or Spinfit tips to see if that helps it stay put. They don't sound as good as my Nuarls or Phaisars, but I like them better than the Monster Clarity 101s I wear for working out - better sound with similar IP rating and controls. If I can figure out the fit on the right these may replace the Monsters in my rotation.
> 
> I may yet try the Rimors just to see for myself, since it seems to be my mission to Try All the TWS.



If you do try the Rimors, consider sticking with them for a while.  I've given mine dozens of hours of listening time, and although I am not a big "burn-in" dude, I would say that they just keep getting better, and other TWS's are getting harder to use.  Granted, all of the TWS's I own/use are under-$100 ChiFi's.


----------



## WesennTony (Mar 8, 2020)

bronco1015 said:


> hey all, am super behind on this thread, but wanted to share something i just discovered. For those who have LG phones, you might be annoyed like me that they almost always default to AAC. I've been wondering for a few days now, if i left a headset paired to the phone after switching to APTX, then power up a different TWE that's also capable of APTX, would the phone continue streaming in APTX, or would i have to go back into dev options and switch it again? i switched my Bomaker SiFi from AAC to APTX, heard the short pause as it switched, then let it stream for a minute or so. Then i pulled out my nuarl N6 Pro, while still leaving the SiFi paired, and, it was still streaming in APTX! There is a distinct difference in SQ with the N6P in AAC vs APTX on my V40, but just to make sure i wasn't hearing things, i went back into develloper options and selected APTX as the streaming codec, and instead of a brief pause as is common when switching from 1 codec to another, the music kept on going.
> i just wanted to share because usually when i switch i power one off then pull out the next pair and have to go through that whole process of switching codecs again.


I've also struggled with my LG V30 and V50 for the default AAC until I found a solution online:

1. Change the codec to aptX in development version
2. Rename the TWS device, by adding "_NOAAC"  (no quotation) at the end of the name.

Next time, The TWS will use aptX automatically.

Enjoy!


----------



## gibletzor

Knightsfan11 said:


> Can foam tips be put onto the Galaxy Buds +?


I'm using the Misodiko foams on mine!


----------



## TheLionelHutz

PSA: Amazon has the black SoundCore L2P for $130.


----------



## gibletzor

TheLionelHutz said:


> I'm pretty happy with these B530Pros. Sound is a little bright and flat, but not shrill or lifeless. Good clarity and detail above 2k; enough volume but low detail below 1k. They are pretty comfortable, although I'm having trouble keeping the right one in. I'm burning then in for 10+ hours right now and then I'll probably try Comply or Spinfit tips to see if that helps it stay put. They don't sound as good as my Nuarls or Phaisars, but I like them better than the Monster Clarity 101s I wear for working out - better sound with similar IP rating and controls. If I can figure out the fit on the right these may replace the Monsters in my rotation.
> 
> I may yet try the Rimors just to see for myself, since it seems to be my mission to Try All the TWS.


I use my B530s with JVC Spiral Dots.  They may not be the best sounding TWS out there, but they're up there for me and they're super comfortable in my ears.


----------



## jasonb

TheLionelHutz said:


> PSA: Amazon has the black SoundCore L2P for $130.



Best Buy has had them for $129 as well. When I was waiting for my Tevi's I had thought about going to Best Buy to try these but decided to just wait for my Tevi's to come in the mail.


----------



## harpdoc

georgelai57 said:


> A review worth reading https://audiobacon.net/2020/03/07/best-true-wireless-earphones-for-sound-quality/



I have only tried three of the TWS pairs that he reviews - MW07, 65T, and Buds+. I found his description and review of those three pairs to be spot on. I think this is a good resource. Thanks for sharing.


----------



## tma6 (Mar 9, 2020)

For those looking at an ANC option, the more I use the AuSounds Au-Stream Hybrid the more I like them. I know some are skeptical of burn in but 30 hours in, to my ears they sound warmer and way less harsh in the high end than they did when I first started using them. The bass is excellent, super clean, tight and satisfyingly punchy. I’d say more of a consumer oriented sound sig than pure “flat” audiophile, but the timbre is still on point and the detail retrieval in the mids and highs is actually pretty great.  Still a touch hot In 1-2k region at high volumes, but it’s gotten better either due to burn in or I just got used to it. The form factor and low profile is probably my favorite of any TWS I’ve tried so far, and that goes for the tiny case too. They look fantastic and touch controls work well. No volume controls are a bummer. They had some weird quirks when I first started using them, some random quick drop outs, but those have seemed to have gone away for the most part. Also, while the case is super small and pocketable which is great, it also seems to need to be charged more frequently than many other cases I’ve used. The battery on the buds is solid - got around 7.5 hours no ANC, 6.5 mixed usage, and around 5.5 hours with ANC at 80% volume. The ANC is solid, probably slightly below the APPs, but they sound much better than the APPs. Definitely does the trick for low frequency noises and was helpful in a crowded super market. They have AAC but no AptX. IPX5 resistance. Phone calls are definitely solid when not too much is going on in the background. Does get muddled and pretty difficult to hear if it’s too loud, but the mic quality is good. Full review to come in the next week or so.


----------



## newb93

Hi guys, I need some help with TWS recommendations. I have absolutely no experience with TWS and there isn't much consolidated information online. Found a few websites but I'm not sure if reliable so I'd wanna check with you guys. 

I'm looking for a sub-50USD tws.
Will be pairing with an Iphone 11.
A V sound signature is nice, prefer warmer tones.
No connectivity issues
Not a priority but if can be used to run/jog would be nice.

I also shortlisted a couple

- Mpow T5
- QCY QS2
- Bomaker Sifi
- Tranya T3
- Sabbat E12 Ultra

- Fiil T1X (top up if there are no good ones)

Do suggest any new ones if I have missed. And also if these above are okay. Thank you very much in advance.


----------



## Odioer

newb93 said:


> Hi guys, I need some help with TWS recommendations. I have absolutely no experience with TWS and there isn't much consolidated information online. Found a few websites but I'm not sure if reliable so I'd wanna check with you guys.
> 
> I'm looking for a sub-50USD tws.
> Will be pairing with an Iphone 11.
> ...


Check out scarbir.com


----------



## newb93

Odioer said:


> Check out scarbir.com



Actually, most of my shortlisted TWS are from his list. Was thinking of getting second opinions from you guys but since you've recommended his list I can go ahead with full confidence.


----------



## SoundChoice

newb93 said:


> Hi guys, I need some help with TWS recommendations. I have absolutely no experience with TWS and there isn't much consolidated information online. Found a few websites but I'm not sure if reliable so I'd wanna check with you guys.
> 
> I'm looking for a sub-50USD tws.
> Will be pairing with an Iphone 11.
> ...



of those, I have only the Sifi and T1X. Part of this is subjective to anatomy, as ear shape and size determines fit, as unlike IEMs there is nothing to secure the device around your ear. The T1X is a nice size, and with the wings, can be made to fit most ears. It has an app that lets you EQ, and can provide a nice bass boost (there were reports the Fiil app was gone from the store. The Sifi is tiny, like sleep on your side small. I find myself fiddling with it. It also takes a bit of jamming the button to adjust volume or skipping tracks. The T1X is a softer touch.

I’d add to the list the Spunky Beats, and Dudios Zeus Air. The latter is about T1X size, a click button that is less sensitive, good baas but no apps Spunky is not quite as small as Sifi but a good V signature. If you find your ideal TWS on the first purchase, count your blessings. You’ll likely buy others to see if you could do better.

I could be happy with any of those 4, but I think I like the Fiil best. YMMV etc


----------



## DynamicEars

WesennTony said:


> I've also struggled with my LG V30 and V50 for the default AAC until I found a solution online:
> 
> 1. Change the codec to aptX in development version
> 2. Rename the TWS device, by adding "_NOAAC"  (no quotation) at the end of the name.
> ...



Didn't work for me, tried to rename, changed name without space also, they keep connected to AAC by default. Am i missing something?


----------



## axhng (Mar 9, 2020)

So... took the plunge and bought these from a local shop. It's a bit more expensive compared to on Aliexpress at S$39 (~28USD), but i don't have to wait for shipping. This is the version with volume controls and aptx (QCC3020). Also keeping in mine that I actually paid S$19 (~14USD) for my Haylou GT1 Plus only by stacking some new user coupons from a local shopping site (lazada).

After listening to them for about an hour or so, my impression is that compared to the Haylou GT1 Plus, it's a slightly warmer sound? Other than that, seems to be about the same in terms of technicalities to my untrained ears? I might need a bit more time with truedots, but at this point, I feel like it's just up to personal preference here.

Build wise they seem the same to me. The soundpeats basically changed the top lid for the charging case, and the top shell for the earbuds only. the bottom portion of those things seems exactly the same on both. I can charge the Truedots using the GT1 Plus case, vice versa. But that change in design on the Truedot makes it a bit easier to open the lid, and take the earbuds out though. Also the eartips are slightly different too.

The tips on the Truedots are a little taller, thicker, and smoother. But they don't really insert any deeper though. it's just that the outer flange is a little taller and the inner portion is a little shorter. That said, I do feel like the truedots tip fits a little better and has less wiggle to it. Sometimes I need a bit more time to get a proper fit using GT1 Plus stock tips.


----------



## Ultrainferno

Another Monday, another TWS review and today we look at the TrueConnect from RHA.
https://www.headfonia.com/rha-trueconnect-review/


----------



## Odioer

axhng said:


> So... took the plunge and bought these from a local shop. It's a bit more expensive compared to on Aliexpress at S$39 (~28USD), but i don't have to wait for shipping. This is the version with volume controls and aptx (QCC3020). Also keeping in mine that I actually paid S$19 (~14USD) for my Haylou GT1 Plus only by stacking some new user coupons from a local shopping site (lazada).
> 
> After listening to them for about an hour or so, my impression is that compared to the Haylou GT1 Plus, it's a slightly warmer sound? Other than that, seems to be about the same in terms of technicalities to my untrained ears? I might need a bit more time with truedots, but at this point, I feel like it's just up to personal preference here.
> 
> ...


Nice. How do they compare to the T5 you have there?


----------



## axhng

Odioer said:


> Nice. How do they compare to the T5 you have there?



They both sound better than the T5 to me. They have more sub-bass, imaging and detail retrieval to me. Mids sounds a little thinner in comparison on the T5 too, and it sounds a bit peaky to me in the upper mids region. Though the T5 absolutely crushes the other 2 in terms of volume though. 55% on the T5 on my phone is about 85% on the other 2. I think the T5 is still pretty good though, just maybe for my taste not quite as good as the other 2.


----------



## mikp

WesennTony said:


> I've also struggled with my LG V30 and V50 for the default AAC until I found a solution online:
> 
> 1. Change the codec to aptX in development version
> 2. Rename the TWS device, by adding "_NOAAC"  (no quotation) at the end of the name.
> ...


 
Big thanks, ive had a cumbersome macrodroid rule set up on my g7, but this worked fine. Where did you find this out?


----------



## WesennTony

mikp said:


> Big thanks, ive had a cumbersome macrodroid rule set up on my g7, but this worked fine. Where did you find this out?


Glad it worked out for you. I googled it a couple of times and happened to find a LG forum talking about this.


----------



## mikp

WesennTony said:


> Glad it worked out for you. I googled it a couple of times and happened to find a LG forum talking about this.



yes, ive found it mentioned now. I had given up on some easy solution.


----------



## WesennTony

DynamicEars said:


> Didn't work for me, tried to rename, changed name without space also, they keep connected to AAC by default. Am i missing something?


Not sure why. Seems works for the other guy here as well.  Did you add underscore and all capitals? What model do you have?


----------



## Caipirina

This might be a noob question, but maybe someone can enlighten me with the magic and nomenclature of BT transfer protocols. Often I ask sellers “AAC or only SBC?” ... and one of the funnier responses was ‘works for both: Android and iOS’ 
So, today’s seller just sent me this screen print, a string of acronyms that I can’t really decipher (must admit that I have seen those before) 


any of those mean SBC, or AAC?


----------



## Mouseman

TheLionelHutz said:


> I'm pretty happy with these B530Pros. Sound is a little bright and flat, but not shrill or lifeless. Good clarity and detail above 2k; enough volume but low detail below 1k. They are pretty comfortable, although I'm having trouble keeping the right one in. I'm burning then in for 10+ hours right now and then I'll probably try Comply or Spinfit tips to see if that helps it stay put. They don't sound as good as my Nuarls or Phaisars, but I like them better than the Monster Clarity 101s I wear for working out - better sound with similar IP rating and controls. If I can figure out the fit on the right these may replace the Monsters in my rotation.
> 
> I may yet try the Rimors just to see for myself, since it seems to be my mission to Try All the TWS.


They are absolutely awful, particularly compared to the B530s. They are muddy, lack details and just basically suck. I put my pair back in the box and have never looked at them since.


----------



## d3myz

Mouseman said:


> They are absolutely awful, particularly compared to the B530s. They are muddy, lack details and just basically suck. I put my pair back in the box and have never looked at them since.


Weird, Mine were near identical to my B530's. Granted the B530's sounded a little more open with slightly better bass extension probably due to the hours of burn in.


----------



## Mouseman

d3myz said:


> Weird, Mine were near identical to my B530's. Granted the B530's sounded a little more open with slightly better bass extension probably due to the hours of burn in.


Yeah, it seems like they're a very polarizing piece of kit. People who got them seem to love them or hate them. I was shocked how bad they were compared to the B530s, which I really like. I thought the B530 with a bigger driver would be a good upgrade. YMMV.


----------



## jant71

Anybody else get this email today...


----------



## tma6 (Mar 9, 2020)

tma6 said:


> For those looking at an ANC option, the more I use the AuSounds Au-Stream Hybrid the more I like them. I know some are skeptical of burn in but 30 hours in, to my ears they sound warmer and way less harsh in the high end than they did when I first started using them. The bass is excellent, super clean, tight and satisfyingly punchy. I’d say more of a consumer oriented sound sig than pure “flat” audiophile, but the timbre is still on point and the detail retrieval in the mids and highs is actually pretty great.  Still a touch hot In 1-2k region at high volumes, but it’s gotten better either due to burn in or I just got used to it. The form factor and low profile is probably my favorite of any TWS I’ve tried so far, and that goes for the tiny case too. They look fantastic and touch controls work well. No volume controls are a bummer. They had some weird quirks when I first started using them, some random quick drop outs, but those have seemed to have gone away for the most part. Also, while the case is super small and pocketable which is great, it also seems to need to be charged more frequently than many other cases I’ve used. The battery on the buds is solid - got around 7.5 hours no ANC, 6.5 mixed usage, and around 5.5 hours with ANC at 80% volume. The ANC is solid, probably slightly below the APPs, but they sound much better than the APPs. Definitely does the trick for low frequency noises and was helpful in a crowded super market. They have AAC but no AptX. IPX5 resistance. Phone calls are definitely solid when not too much is going on in the background. Does get muddled and pretty difficult to hear if it’s too loud, but the mic quality is good. Full review to come in the next week or so.




Main problem with the ANC on the Ausounds Hybrid unfortunately is that it is super sensitive to wind noise, which is nearly impossible to escape when walking around NYC. I didn't notice wind noise at all w my Airpods Pro when I had them. Is this also an issue w the Sony's, 1mores, or other ANC buds?


----------



## Bhelpoori

WesennTony said:


> Not sure why. Seems works for the other guy here as well.  Did you add underscore and all capitals? What model do you have?





Caipirina said:


> This might be a noob question, but maybe someone can enlighten me with the magic and nomenclature of BT transfer protocols. Often I ask sellers “AAC or only SBC?” ... and one of the funnier responses was ‘works for both: Android and iOS’
> So, today’s seller just sent me this screen print, a string of acronyms that I can’t really decipher (must admit that I have seen those before)
> 
> 
> any of those mean SBC, or AAC?


Welcome to the world of Bluetooth, which as you have seen is a collection of various specifications at various levels. What you are seeing are the various Bluetooth protocols that are connected with the audio and microphone world: HeadSet Protocol (HSP), Hands Free Protocol (HFP), Advanced Audio Distribution Profile (A2DP) and Audio Video Remote Control Profile (AVRCP). HSP and HFP are for phone calls, the other two are audio ones. 

The question therefore to ask them is "Does your A2DP profile support the optional AAC codec as in section 4.5, page 26 of the A2DP v1.3.2 specification? You can find the  1.3.2 version at: https://www.bluetooth.org/docman/handlers/downloaddoc.ashx?doc_id=457083 for your reference."


----------



## webvan

tma6 said:


> Main problem with the ANC on the Ausounds Hybrid unfortunately is that it is super sensitive to wind noise, which is nearly impossible to escape when walking around NYC. I didn't notice wind noise at all w my Airpods Pro when I had them. Is this also an issue w the Sony's, 1mores, or other ANC buds?



Yes because the mics have to be on to capture the surrounding noise and cancel it. You can't ride a bike with ANC on for instance, regardless of the ANC earbuds I've used (Echobuds, WF1000xm3, Libratone TA+, AirPods Pro) and if it's windy headphones like the QC25 are going to have a problem too.


----------



## tma6

@d3myz just got the Boltune ANC buds in. First impressions are decent. They sound pretty good for the price, nothing offensive sounding, the highs are a bit washed out but smooth mid-range and solid bass that's not too overpowering. The ANC is very mild it seems. Honestly the T1X have much better sound and just as good isolation for less money. So I'm probably going to be returning these. They're not bad though for the price and gonna test out phone calls before they go back to see how they do there.


----------



## d3myz (Mar 9, 2020)

I saw someone posting about the L2pro for $130. I have 2 unopened black L2pro's. one version 2 and one version 3. If anyone wants one, i'll let them go for $107 each shipped within the U.S. HMU.


----------



## d3myz

Mouseman said:


> Yeah, it seems like they're a very polarizing piece of kit. People who got them seem to love them or hate them. I was shocked how bad they were compared to the B530s, which I really like. I thought the B530 with a bigger driver would be a good upgrade. YMMV.


We are talking about the  B530 Pro, right? aka the B530 Qualcom version? From what Ida@Tranya told me, the tuning is the same and so are the materials except for the chipset. That was also my experience. Super Weird.


----------



## aspirina750

Quick one, I own the Elite 75t and I'm still within my 1 month exchange time, should I go for the Active 75t? The question is mainly sound wise, I haven't found a good review that compares them acoustically.... Anyone has had some time with both of them?

Thanks!


----------



## johnston21

The SONY WF-H800.3’s arrived today (no APTX). Great form-factor. Have yet to  compare against theT5’s. The Falcon’s are due tomorrow or Wednesday.


----------



## Caipirina

Bhelpoori said:


> Welcome to the world of Bluetooth, which as you have seen is a collection of various specifications at various levels. What you are seeing are the various Bluetooth protocols that are connected with the audio and microphone world: HeadSet Protocol (HSP), Hands Free Protocol (HFP), Advanced Audio Distribution Profile (A2DP) and Audio Video Remote Control Profile (AVRCP). HSP and HFP are for phone calls, the other two are audio ones.
> 
> The question therefore to ask them is "Does your A2DP profile support the optional AAC codec as in section 4.5, page 26 of the A2DP v1.3.2 specification? You can find the  1.3.2 version at: https://www.bluetooth.org/docman/handlers/downloaddoc.ashx?doc_id=457083 for your reference."



Great response! Thank you! I copy / pasted this as a question to the seller ... let's see what they respond


----------



## stormwrx

tma6 said:


> For those looking at an ANC option, the more I use the AuSounds Au-Stream Hybrid the more I like them. I know some are skeptical of burn in but 30 hours in, to my ears they sound warmer and way less harsh in the high end than they did when I first started using them. The bass is excellent, super clean, tight and satisfyingly punchy. I’d say more of a consumer oriented sound sig than pure “flat” audiophile, but the timbre is still on point and the detail retrieval in the mids and highs is actually pretty great.  Still a touch hot In 1-2k region at high volumes, but it’s gotten better either due to burn in or I just got used to it. The form factor and low profile is probably my favorite of any TWS I’ve tried so far, and that goes for the tiny case too. They look fantastic and touch controls work well. No volume controls are a bummer. They had some weird quirks when I first started using them, some random quick drop outs, but those have seemed to have gone away for the most part. Also, while the case is super small and pocketable which is great, it also seems to need to be charged more frequently than many other cases I’ve used. The battery on the buds is solid - got around 7.5 hours no ANC, 6.5 mixed usage, and around 5.5 hours with ANC at 80% volume. The ANC is solid, probably slightly below the APPs, but they sound much better than the APPs. Definitely does the trick for low frequency noises and was helpful in a crowded super market. They have AAC but no AptX. IPX5 resistance. Phone calls are definitely solid when not too much is going on in the background. Does get muddled and pretty difficult to hear if it’s too loud, but the mic quality is good. Full review to come in the next week or so.



I have the AuStream Hybrid ANCs as well and agree with you on them getting better after some burn-in. I haven't logged that many hours yet, but will post further impressions shortly.


----------



## Ascariss

FYLegend said:


> Qualcomm chips work fine with non-Snapdragon devices, they just won't support TWS+ (Samsung, Huawei, Windows 10 to name a few) and/or AptX (only Apple off the top of my head). Even with a TWS+ device the single-bud switching is reportedly still clunky. I suspect Sony might have weighted in this usability issue as well.



Ya that is what I meant, devices without snapdragon would just use the old TWS connection, first connecting to one earbud and then that earbud connects to the other and not 2 direct separate connections to each individual earbud.


----------



## FYLegend

Decided to bite the bullet on the Galaxy Buds+, currently 10$ off on Amazon.ca (watch out for third-party listings as they're inflating the prices).  I do suspect local stores might drop to this price, but last year the buds didn't really go on sale until Black Friday/Boxing Day.

Is there a new version of the Rimors? They were slated to be launched in December with new tuning...

Also wondering if anyone here has got their hands on the Astrotec S90 Pro. It seemed they wanted testers but never got back to me about it...

MPOW M30 looks promising except the lack of AptX. Did anyone here try M7 or M8 yet? I was eyeing on M8 but the reviews seem mixed relative to the M5.

Votomy TWS-V22 seems to use the same shell as GRDE T11 but it has only 2500mAh (vs 3000mAh), IPX7 (vs IPX5) and I don't see AptX listed either. I was considering the T11 which sometimes goes on sale on Amazon.ca but someone told me they got two units which both had swapped channels. Then there was this Chinese video using Gaia Control to fix the problem but it's so poorly explained. It seems more recent users say they don't have this issue though.



chinmie said:


> I'm basing it from product information on AE, that most newer TWS (not exclusive to qualcomm chip based ones) all have that picture that claim they have independent connection between each of the earpiece to the device.
> 
> if from experience, my XM3 and Dyplay (both use Airoha) and Galaxy buds (Broadcom chip) can all continuously play music without any stopping/skipping while putting one side in the case, taking it out again, and putting the other side in the case. my Airsun would have a slight skipping in that scenario.
> 
> ...


The best way to test this is to remove the master bud from your ear and see if the slave bud cuts out.

I just tested out the Aufo M1. It doesn't pause when switching master buds and transitioning to mono, only a brief skip when I go back to using stereo. Cupping the master bud also causes the slave bud to skip, so it's not true single-bud mode. I presume this is a realtek chip as it is similar to my BE30 Air UFO.

Unfortunately I misplaced my Jabees buds somewhere and never really got around to testing it in this manner, but it did have seamless single-bud switching. I only recall that I almost never experienced skipping with it on my phone but all too often with Windows 10. Another note is that these were firmware upgradeable which fixed SBC volume distortion but not the stuttering.

On the other hand QCC3020 devices skip when I am strolling along a certain area downtown, and the "death grip" of my phone becomes more sensitive (cupping the top-left corner of the phone or sometimes just touching the volume keys). Probably not directly related to the chip, but my Sabbat E12 Ultra has been acting up recently with the left bud sometimes not pairing at all. It seems to be linked to the buds not being charged properly in the case. These have the best connection with Windows 10 that I've tried to far - next to zero disconnects.

Not directly TWS-related, but I'm still appalled as to why Samsung doesn't support AptX HD or AptX LL.They use a Murata Buetooth modem rather than Qualcomm (even on the Snapdragon version), but Huawei also don't use a Qualcomm modem either but they still support AptX HD. Not even sure the Snapdragon S9/S10 even support TWS+, as there were some early complaints I read on some forums...


----------



## chinmie

FYLegend said:


> The best way to test this is to remove the master bud from your ear and see if the slave bud cuts out.



this scenario would only cut out on NFMI based master-slave TWS like the T65 or Earin M2. even cheaper TWS like QCY T1C that uses older Realtek master - slave won't cut out signal when removing the master side (and vice versa) from the ear. the best way to identify it as far as i know is like i described: from the connection name and by putting one of them in the charging case


----------



## BigZ12

chinmie said:


> this scenario would only cut out on NFMI based master-slave TWS like the T65 or Earin M2. even cheaper TWS like QCY T1C that uses older Realtek master - slave won't cut out signal when removing the master side (and vice versa) from the ear. the best way to identify it as far as i know is like i described: from the connection name and by putting one of them in the charging case


I still don't understand why the most expensive TWS brands use NFMI. Jabra 75t, B&O E8 3.0, Senn' MTW... it's a dealbreaker for me.


----------



## Mouseman

d3myz said:


> We are talking about the  B530 Pro, right? aka the B530 Qualcom version? From what Ida@Tranya told me, the tuning is the same and so are the materials except for the chipset. That was also my experience. Super Weird.


I'm talking about the Rimors as being inferior to the B530s. I only have the non-Pro B530s, I didn't see a reason to upgrade. I also got a bit irritated with Tranya when they asked me to change my rating on the Rimors, so I didn't take them up on the Pro offer. I thought a 10mm driver in the Tranya would be better than the 6mm in the B530, but that wasn't my experience.


----------



## brtalush

Did any one tried:
"Key Series Active Noise Cancelling True Wireless Earbuds Bluetooth 5.0, in-Ear Headphones with Charging Case and Touch Control, 24H Playtime, Hi-Fi Sound Quality, Wireless Charging (T18NC)"

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B...&pf_rd_p=ab873d20-a0ca-439b-ac45-cd78f07a84d8


----------



## hifi80sman

brtalush said:


> Did any one tried:
> "Key Series Active Noise Cancelling True Wireless Earbuds Bluetooth 5.0, in-Ear Headphones with Charging Case and Touch Control, 24H Playtime, Hi-Fi Sound Quality, Wireless Charging (T18NC)"
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B...&pf_rd_p=ab873d20-a0ca-439b-ac45-cd78f07a84d8


Curious on these as well.  13mm drivers w/ANC.  Always enjoyed products from Aukey.


----------



## johnston21

removed by poster (re: formatting challenges...)


----------



## axhng

After more time with the TrueDots, I thought I would share more about what I think about it especially compared to the Haylou GT1 Plus. I'm still learning how to describe what I'm hearing, so if there are any mistakes, feedback is definitely appreciated so I can improve. 



Spoiler



Like I mentioned previously, I still feel like it's just a warmer version of the GT1 Plus. It has more bass presence, lower mids & mids sounds fuller, but the treble seems a little more subdued.

For me I felt this most on the track Caravan from Whiplash's (movie) sound track. Basically throughout the song, the bass drum, double bass?, stands out more in the track to me. Even when the brass instruments comes in, the double bass still stands out a bit more in the mix. Whereas on the GT1 Plus, I think it sounded more in line with other instruments. Then the cymbals and hi-hats doesn't sound quite as lively to me as well.

In songs like Get lucky from daft punk, bad guy from billie eilish, i love it by icona pop, the bass is thumpy, and to some extent actually a bit much for me. But other than that, it doesn't sound overly bloated to me.

In Vulfpeck's Wait For the moment, the beginning of the song has some background noise in the recording, and it's more obvious on the GT1 Plus, so TrueDots is probably a bit more forgiving sounding as well. In the intro portion of the song with the keyboard, bass guitar, drums, I think because more focus is on the lower mids, it sounds fuller and has a bit more depth to it. Same goes for Antwaun Stanley's vocals too, which sounds a bit more full bodied.

But in tracks with high female vocals, it can sound a little duller than I would have liked, like LiSA's Gurenge and Reol's Gekihaku. Their vocals sounds a little livelier and airier to me on the GT1 Plus, and it's something I kinda enjoy. Though some might describe that as being thinner sounding too I guess. But for Reol's Gekihaku, the extra bass and fuller sounding mids does make the track really enjoyable still in another way.

Ultimately I think both sounds good, and are quite impressive for their price point. While I think more people will enjoy TrueDots more, I think I still prefer the GT1 Plus a bit more. I like a slightly brighter sound still, and I find the bass a bit much on the TrueDots sometimes. (I am definitely not a bass head, and do listen to a lot of tracks with female vocals)

As far as recommendations go, between the two, the Truedot is probably a safer bet and the one I would recommend over the GT1 Plus. Tuning is a little more crowd pleasing, ear tips are a little less finicky to me, the controls are better (volume control), and in singapore it can be found at local retailers.


----------



## FYLegend

Spoke too soon, Amazon has dropped the Buds+ even further to 186$ and Mikes currently has it for 166$. Too late to cancel my order at this point... and for once they've decided to use Intelcom to ship... smh



chinmie said:


> this scenario would only cut out on NFMI based master-slave TWS like the T65 or Earin M2. even cheaper TWS like QCY T1C that uses older Realtek master - slave won't cut out signal when removing the master side (and vice versa) from the ear. the best way to identify it as far as i know is like i described: from the connection name and by putting one of them in the charging case


Well the ones I've tested don't use NFMI, except the Jabra 65t, which remains cut out when the master bud is moved out of range and doesn't even try to play music, so much as taking it out of my ear (you get the impression that the music has auto-paused until you realize the master is still playing music). BE30 Air UFO and Aufo M1 _skip_ when I take the bud out of my ear, but still try to play audio. So even if they have single-bud use, they are still using master-slave setup.

In order to test out true independent mode, you might need to take each bud outside the Bluetooth range of the source device.


----------



## jasonb

BigZ12 said:


> Summarize:
> - I use medium size JVC Spiral dots, and original tips, so I bought the medium Comply Foams (with Techdefender).
> https://www.complyfoam.com/products/twzz-truegrip-2
> - The fit is awesome. Seal is near perfect for me. No noise while chewing, moving mouth, and less thumping while walking. No vacuum feel when pressing buttons. (that alone is worth buying)
> ...



So I just got my comply tips for my Tevi's today and am trying them right now. I'm only a few songs in, but so far they sound good and feel great. So far they feel like nothing is in my ears. They don't change the sound in any negative ways so that's a plus. Isolation seems really good. I'll report back more soon. I'm off from work the next two days and plan on listening to these a lot.


----------



## chinmie

FYLegend said:


> Spoke too soon, Amazon has dropped the Buds+ even further to 186$ and Mikes currently has it for 166$. Too late to cancel my order at this point... and for once they've decided to use Intelcom to ship... smh
> 
> 
> Well the ones I've tested don't use NFMI, except the Jabra 65t, which remains cut out when the master bud is moved out of range and doesn't even try to play music, so much as taking it out of my ear (you get the impression that the music has auto-paused until you realize the master is still playing music). BE30 Air UFO and Aufo M1 _skip_ when I take the bud out of my ear, but still try to play audio. So even if they have single-bud use, they are still using master-slave setup.
> ...



hmmmm, haven't tried it like that. I'll test my TWS soon, and share the results here


----------



## thimantha (Mar 10, 2020)

axhng said:


> the beginning of the song has some background noise in the recording



I also experienced this with some songs that I never listened to with a wired headphone. All of my other TWSs' have been forgiving on that songs and I never heard the slight distortions, artifacts and background noises until I listened to them on the GT1 Plus. Initially, I thought something was wrong with the earbuds, but after listening to the same songs on wired headphones and speakers with a bit more attention, it's just that the GT1 Plus pulls out a lot of details from the tracks compared to other TWSs' which result in me noticing more recording issues and compression artifacts. 



axhng said:


> ear tips are a little less finicky to me



I replaced my GT1 Plus ear tips with the large ear tips that came with my QCY QS2. It's a perfect fit now  The ones that came with the GT1 Plus was a bit on the shorter side for me.


----------



## RainyDog (Mar 11, 2020)

axhng said:


> After more time with the TrueDots, I thought I would share more about what I think about it especially compared to the Haylou GT1 Plus. I'm still learning how to describe what I'm hearing, so if there are any mistakes, feedback is definitely appreciated so I can improve.



Thanks for the additional write up. Both seem like they punch well above their price points.

Just received the TrueDots from Amazon UK as they were on a lightning deal. But looks like they are the older, non-APTx, version as the box is shorter and plain without the additional info on the reverse. So I'll probably just return them as I'm on on Android and not been overly impressed with any AAC/SBC only sets I've tried.


----------



## Caipirina

while I am still waiting for my Dyplay ANC (ordered Jan 16!) I went ahead last night and jumped the gun on those Edifier TWS NB @96$  ... i never paid much attention to them (bulky), but they popped up again in my recent AptX search and there are not many ANC & AptX buds out there, the 1More ANC does not have the best reviews and is twice the price. And looking back I came across @Bartig 's rather positive review ... 

Any reason why I should cancel it while I still can?


----------



## go0gle

Kulch said:


> Wow!!! the custom eq on the liberty air 2 has changed everything, if u find the right setting you can find your HearID x 5. Forget HearID, forget signature sound and their presets, find your sound via the eq. It's like steroids being pumped into the TWS, it's blown anything I have ever used prior, out of the water (ibasso it01 and shure 215s). Here are my settings, I've been able to dial into a setting which is like the piano preset but with more lows and bass and it's incredible. I'm still tinkering, I'm curious what others use for their LP2s.



I copied this for my pro 2 and they sound quite nice. Thanks for sharing !


----------



## Havre

aspirina750 said:


> Quick one, I own the Elite 75t and I'm still within my 1 month exchange time, should I go for the Active 75t? The question is mainly sound wise, I haven't found a good review that compares them acoustically.... Anyone has had some time with both of them?
> 
> Thanks!



Same unit isn't it?

I went for Active 75t, but really no good reason for it other than I might try to use them kiting.

Really like them so far. Had to adjust the bass to the minimum, but other than that seems like an excellent product.


----------



## Odioer

axhng said:


> After more time with the TrueDots, I thought I would share more about what I think about it especially compared to the Haylou GT1 Plus



Thank you for writing this up, my GT1 plus are on the way!
Really nice and surprising to see TWS pull up details like that. BTW my BLON's have finally arrived and the hype is real. These are very musical, controlled but rumbly bass and detailed yet silky smooth. My bar for SQ has been raised.



thimantha said:


> I replaced my GT1 Plus ear tips with the large ear tips that came with my QCY QS2. It's a perfect fit now  The ones that came with the GT1 Plus was a bit on the shorter side for me.



I washed my QS2(only buds) along with my trackpants in the washing machine yesterday. To my surprise the left earbud still functions after a 40 minute full wash. The right earbud has died and probably its just the battery as the LED flashes faintly while i put


----------



## Firevortex

harpdoc said:


> I have only tried three of the TWS pairs that he reviews - MW07, 65T, and Buds+. I found his description and review of those three pairs to be spot on. I think this is a good resource. Thanks for sharing.



right jabra elite 65t sounds better than sennheiser MTW  [insert curse word here] with 75t sharing exactly the same drivers and chipset as 65t just re-tuning of drivers to bass heavy and replaced battery. ranked 4th....


----------



## slowbeatle

d3myz said:


> I saw someone posting about the L2pro for $130. I have 2 unopened black L2pro's. one version 2 and one version 3. If anyone wants one, i'll let them go for $107 each shipped within the U.S. HMU.



I'm interested


----------



## d3myz

Mouseman said:


> I'm talking about the Rimors as being inferior to the B530s. I only have the non-Pro B530s, I didn't see a reason to upgrade. I also got a bit irritated with Tranya when they asked me to change my rating on the Rimors, so I didn't take them up on the Pro offer. I thought a 10mm driver in the Tranya would be better than the 6mm in the B530, but that wasn't my experience.


Ahh, that makes sense. yea, they asked me to do that too. The Rimor's were a big fail for me, I was SOOO disappointed. Now that i've had the APPs for a while, they kind of remind me of the Rimor. Great frequency response, but pretty much all boosted midrange and not something I would listen to music on.


----------



## d3myz (Mar 11, 2020)

Caipirina said:


> while I am still waiting for my Dyplay ANC (ordered Jan 16!) I went ahead last night and jumped the gun on those Edifier TWS NB @96$  ... i never paid much attention to them (bulky), but they popped up again in my recent AptX search and there are not many ANC & AptX buds out there, the 1More ANC does not have the best reviews and is twice the price. And looking back I came across @Bartig 's rather positive review ...
> 
> Any reason why I should cancel it while I still can?


Dang, I ordered the Goeco JD-6 the Dyplay clone. i'm about to send them back  . Muffled, boring sound, but the ANC was pretty decent. Fit wasn't great for me either. That's a good price for the NB's where did you get them for that?


----------



## martiniCZ

axhng said:


> After more time with the TrueDots, I thought I would share more about what I think about it especially compared to the Haylou GT1 Plus. I'm still learning how to describe what I'm hearing, so if there are any mistakes, feedback is definitely appreciated so I can improve.


Thank you for adding how to control the volume on the new version of TrueDot? I don't see the control scheme anywhere.


----------



## axlgod

Hi 

I’ve just recieved the Cambridge Audio Melomania1 & was hoping to update them to the latest firmware.
The problem is I own an iPhone XR , so I’ve found an old Samsung s3 & am tying to update them with that (as you can only update via android) but there is absolutely no way on earth I can get the 2 files needed to update to work on the android, they just will not open.

can anyone help?

thanks.


----------



## jasonb

Odioer said:


> Thank you for writing this up, my GT1 plus are on the way!
> Really nice and surprising to see TWS pull up details like that. BTW my BLON's have finally arrived and the hype is real. These are very musical, controlled but rumbly bass and detailed yet silky smooth. My bar for SQ has been raised.
> 
> 
> ...


 
A True wireless BL03 would be awesome! I instead use them with an ES100 and an 18" cable and clip the ES100 to my shirt collar. Not quite as easy and convenient as a True wireless though.


----------



## Odioer

jasonb said:


> A True wireless BL03 would be awesome! I instead use them with an ES100 and an 18" cable and clip the ES100 to my shirt collar. Not quite as easy and convenient as a True wireless though.


I've heard good things about thr TRN bt20s. I don't know whether they'd be as good as the redstone but more wireless though.


----------



## Caipirina

d3myz said:


> Dang, I ordered the Goeco JD-6 the Dyplay clone. i'm about to send them back  . Muffled, boring sound, but the ANC was pretty decent. Fit wasn't great for me either. That's a good price for the NB's where did you get them for that?


Edifier official store on AE ... it appears they have 3 different listings (that I know of, there could be more), one is at 101.32$ with a 3$ coupon. And then ‘coins’. The wonders of AE gamification...


----------



## Caipirina

jasonb said:


> A True wireless BL03 would be awesome! I instead use them with an ES100 and an 18" cable and clip the ES100 to my shirt collar. Not quite as easy and convenient as a True wireless though.


Don’t tempt me, those BLON have been sitting on my wishlist for a while now ... I sure have enough IEMs


----------



## jasonb

Odioer said:


> I've heard good things about thr TRN bt20s. I don't know whether they'd be as good as the redstone but more wireless though.



I'd thought about something like the bt20s, but I'm sure the ES100 will sound better since it supports LDAC and had an EQ built in. I'll stick to using the BL03 this way, and use my Lypertek Tevi when I need the convenience of a true wireless.


----------



## jasonb

Caipirina said:


> Don’t tempt me, those BLON have been sitting on my wishlist for a while now ... I sure have enough IEMs



They are only like $35 on Amazon.


----------



## Eddie C (Mar 11, 2020)

Mine: Fiil T1X
Coworker: Lypertek Tevi





Quick comparisons:

Sound: Im leaning towards the Tevi myself. Tevi sounds more natural and airy. Fiil has more prominent bass which intrudes into the low mids, less balanced. Using sony hybrid tips seems to clear up the sound a bit on the Fiils, i need to do more tip rolling.

etc:
-Fiils fit better in my ear, Tevis dont feel as secure
-Tevis feel more premium (case+earpieces)
-Dislike the button on the Tevi because im mashing them into my ear and hear a click sound, whereas Fiil uses touch control


----------



## BigZ12

Eddie C said:


> Mine: Fiil T1X
> Coworker: Lypertek Tevi
> 
> 
> ...


You should try the Tevis with Comply Foam. No feeling of mashing them into your ears, as with silicone tips, and just much more comfortable. Sound is also great.


----------



## Sam L

Hey Peeps,

What are your recommendations for a TWS with very little isolation (like airpods). I have a pair of Mifo 02s. Wondering if there are other models out there you guys have tried?


----------



## axhng (Mar 11, 2020)

thimantha said:


> I replaced my GT1 Plus ear tips with the large ear tips that came with my QCY QS2. It's a perfect fit now  The ones that came with the GT1 Plus was a bit on the shorter side for me.



I thought it would be a great idea swapping the tips with the TrueDot since those are a little less finicky, but it turns out that putting those tips on the GT1 Plus reduces the bass slightly and pushes the treble up a little. So ended up just sticking with the stock tips because the sound was just nice for me. 



Odioer said:


> Thank you for writing this up, my GT1 plus are on the way!
> Really nice and surprising to see TWS pull up details like that. BTW my BLON's have finally arrived and the hype is real. These are very musical, controlled but rumbly bass and detailed yet silky smooth. My bar for SQ has been raised.
> 
> I washed my QS2(only buds) along with my trackpants in the washing machine yesterday. To my surprise the left earbud still functions after a 40 minute full wash. The right earbud has died and probably its just the battery as the LED flashes faintly while i put



I was pretty surprised by these too. maybe because the sound signature is more to my liking, I really enjoy using these, sometimes more so than some budget IEMs like MH755 (the upper mids peak can be a little shouty at times). haha.

My relationship with the BLON has been a bit up and down. At first i thought they were awesome (honeymoon period), then after a while I thought the bass was a bit much and feels like they're crowding out the lower mids a little. left them alone for a while, then picked them up again and tried different tips. Finally found a wider bore one that works better for me. (though that mid bass is still a little much for my taste, lol.) But for that price, it's definitely a steal.



martiniCZ said:


> Thank you for adding how to control the volume on the new version of TrueDot? I don't see the control scheme anywhere.



It doesn't say in the manual for mine, but it's just a single tap on right to increase volume, left to decrease volume.


----------



## jasonb

BigZ12 said:


> You should try the Tevis with Comply Foam. No feeling of mashing them into your ears, as with silicone tips, and just much more comfortable. Sound is also great.



Agreed. I didn't like the buttons with silicone tips, but with the comply foam pressing the buttons ain't so bad. I listened to the Tevi with the comply's for 3 hours straight last night and enjoyed it a lot.


----------



## CocaCola15

axlgod said:


> Hi
> 
> I’ve just recieved the Cambridge Audio Melomania1 & was hoping to update them to the latest firmware.
> The problem is I own an iPhone XR , so I’ve found an old Samsung s3 & am tying to update them with that (as you can only update via android) but there is absolutely no way on earth I can get the 2 files needed to update to work on the android, they just will not open.
> ...


I am a major M1 fan and have never updated the FW. No EQ, well I do bump the treble a wee bit using my Kaiser Audio app/player (highly recommended). To me, with the foam tips, they sound great. No weaknesses. I tried to update the FW using my Amazon Fire, no go. CA should be ashamed, no direct path for iOS users.


----------



## Caipirina

jasonb said:


> They are only like $35 on Amazon.



I had them for 27$ in my AE cart not too long ago ... i really do not need another IEM ... must resist the urge ... 

plus I fear that shipping times will get worse now ... might as well stay away from AE a bit and play with all the toys I have ...


----------



## rsusid

webreaper said:


> Hi all,
> 
> Haven't posted much as I've been pretty happy with the Senn IE80s over the last couple of years. But I'm getting a bit fed up with having to replace the cable every 8-12 months. The IE80s are fantastic sound-wise, and I have custom-moulded sleeves which give a wonderful fit and great sound isolation. I was originally looking for a wireless lanyard like the Westone BT cable 78548, but unfortunately the IE80s use a custom connector, and I can't find an equivalent wireless converter that'll fit the Senns (there's some $5 ones on Alibaba, but I've no confidence that they'll have decent SQ, battery life or reliability).
> 
> ...



Yeah I wish I could afford the B&O Beoplay E8


----------



## Caipirina

Sam L said:


> Hey Peeps,
> 
> What are your recommendations for a TWS with very little isolation (like airpods). I have a pair of Mifo 02s. Wondering if there are other models out there you guys have tried?



I can very much recommend the Sabbat X12 .. either Pro if Aptx is not your thing or the Ultra for AptX and added qi charging ... the sound on them is way better than the airpods and they have the same semi in-ear / earbud shape, without the stem.


----------



## cleg

Our review of Mifo O7, a really good step towards "audiophiliac" TWS


----------



## creedshot153 (Mar 12, 2020)

MAYBE IT will be THE FIRST APTX-HD TWS EARBUD?


----------



## TheLionelHutz

Does anyone know of a tip adapter or gel that can make an in-ear bud fit more like a semi (e.g., like AirPods)?  I have a pair of Soundcore Life P2 that I use at work for calls (excellent mics and battery life), but my ear canals get fatigued from the in-ear fit.  I don't need the greatest sound fidelity as I literally only use them with my desk phone for calls - I just need a more comfortable fit.  I have resisted switching to a Jabra or Plantronics call-specific earpiece because most of those don't have a docking option unless you start looking in the $150+ range.


----------



## actorlife (Mar 12, 2020)

Blueshound24 said:


> I haven't been on this thread for a while, but has anybody tried the tws50? This review sounds positive.
> 
> https://www.techradar.com/reviews/soundmagic-tws50-true-wireless-in-ear-headphones


I asked about these a couple pages back. I might give them a try soundmagic makes good stuff.
Edit available for 69$ I'll wait for a sale. Good reviews online:
SoundMAGIC TWS50 True Wireless Earbuds Bluetooth 5.0 Earphones in-Ear Hi-Fi Stereo Headphones IPX7 Waterproof Touch Control Headset with Portable Charging Case https://www.amazon.com/dp/B081YG65WS/ref=cm_sw_r_sms_apa_i_nnLAEbK3YS7NF
These Cambridge look good, but price is too high might bite at a lower price:
Cambridge Audio Melomania 1 Earbuds Pair, True Wireless Bluetooth 5.0, Hi-Fi Sound, in-Ear Stereo Earphones with Portable Charging Case (Black) https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07R186Y9Y/ref=cm_sw_r_sms_apa_i_8vLAEb8CGPWBN


----------



## Odioer

Oluv destroying the l2p.


----------



## actorlife

^I loved his rant on zeos that was so damn funny


----------



## nihontoman

Odioer said:


> Oluv destroying the l2p.



Saw that vid just now. always wanted to hear these. now I don't...


----------



## FYLegend

Just got the Buds+ today. For the most part I enjoyed their detailed sound, but they sometimes have a "puffy" distortion with certain sounds especially when it's quiet. It also amplifies preexisting distortio in tracks such that they sound more artificial. For whatever reason, My Leaving by Kenichiro Nishihara sounds poor, the snare just splashes and rattles...

SBC performance with my Windows 10 laptop is rather disappointing as well - I hear a rattling distortion I don't hear with SBC on my Note 9.

I quickly switched it to tap edge for volume control so I can have both ambient sound and volume control regardless of what device I'm using.


----------



## Darkestred (Mar 12, 2020)

Its just sad because The Ankers are good and now this dude has just swayed x amount of people because he said so.  My ankers sound nothing like his version and wouldnt the original and anker version sound the same on the anker?  They dont.

It's almost like his fans are doing the reverse of paid reviewers.  They were looking for a reason to hate them instead of researching more but i guess thats what separates the devote to those looking for shortcuts.

No i am not butt-hurt.  I just found the comments odd and his review.

I do agree they may be a little sharp (perhaps) and can be bassier but its not bloated like his anker version. Maybe i have a superb pair.


----------



## hifi80sman (Mar 12, 2020)

nihontoman said:


> Saw that vid just now. always wanted to hear these. now I don't...


You should really try them.  I can't say I agree with him, especially is rant about fake reviews.  Many of my buddies have these and love them.  If you want neutral or close to neutral, then the L2P are not for you.  That being said, they can be EQd and are fun for me to listen to.  I enjoy bass and they work great for the gym, etc.  They are absolutely not something any purest will enjoy...at all.  They are decidedly consumer oriented tuning, so if you enjoy that type of signature, you'll probably like these.  I personally have varying in-ear and over-ear stuff with a multitude of sound signatures and listen to different things depending on my mood.

The marketing with "Grammy winning producers" will likely attract "Audiophiles", who will be disappointed because it will have "too much bass" (notice they rarely complain about sharp-ass treble).  I used to roll with amped 2x12" subs in my G ride when I was a youth, so bass ain't no thang with this OG.


----------



## mikp

creedshot153 said:


> MAYBE IT will be THE FIRST APTX-HD TWS EARBUD?




first post...

well,thats an easy video to fake. let me guess, indiegogo?


----------



## hifi80sman

mikp said:


> first post...
> 
> well,thats an easy video to fake. let me guess, indiegogo?


Sure is.  At least post a few more times.


----------



## axlgod

CocaCola15 said:


> I am a major M1 fan and have never updated the FW. No EQ, well I do bump the treble a wee bit using my Kaiser Audio app/player (highly recommended). To me, with the foam tips, they sound great. No weaknesses. I tried to update the FW using my Amazon Fire, no go. CA should be ashamed, no direct path for iOS users.



Thanks for the reply.
I email CA & they sent me a direct FW link & guess what? It was also an absolute no go!
I’ll be mailing them again tomorrow to get to the bottom of the FW debacle.
They’ve also posted some more foam tips as I told them I wasn’t happy with the ones that came with the original package.

I’m still on the fence about them, I really, really want them to be amazing & hopefully with a few tweaks, they’ll get there.

Fingers crossed.


----------



## CocaCola15

axlgod said:


> Thanks for the reply.
> I email CA & they sent me a direct FW link & guess what? It was also an absolute no go!
> I’ll be mailing them again tomorrow to get to the bottom of the FW debacle.
> They’ve also posted some more foam tips as I told them I wasn’t happy with the ones that came with the original package.
> ...


Well, I don’t care much about the FW update because I am happy with SQ. As for the foam tips, the originals are small but fit me perfectly. They added a somewhat larger pair, which they are probably sending you. I have those too. Comply or other foams won’t fit the charging case well, so a pain. Good news? The original foam tips I use clean well with hydrogen peroxide and a rinse with water and a day of drying. I just love the sound. FW not an issue. And I was told by CA here in USA there would be no FW for iOS.


----------



## Sebulr

Odioer said:


> I've heard good things about thr TRN bt20s. I don't know whether they'd be as good as the redstone but more wireless though.


I sometimes use my trn bt20 non s with my blon bl-03 but they don't sit quite right, they angle a bit wrong with them. For my ears. I prefer to use my kz zs10 pros with them, they are much more comfortable with the trn bt20.


----------



## Sebulr

Just had a tracking update, my kz s1 have left shenzen, so I might get them in a week or two. They might become my new bed phones. 

Linsoul kindly offered me my money back a while back, due to covid 19, but I told them I'll wait. Its not like I have a lack of headphones.
My bomaker sifi are my gotos on the go, they fit me perfectly and sound 90% as good as some as wired sets.


----------



## IEManiac

zazaboy said:


> oke I quoted this from a youtube user from a earlier video here... comparison between tevi mpow t5 and l2pro... .quote: This is shocking! I own both. The Tevi sounds great if you don’t care for much bass , but there is no comparison to the L2pro. The Tevi is grossly overpriced by about $45.  Buy the MPOW T5. It’s a Tevi w/o the graphene driver that can be Eq’d to sound nearly identical and it’s $40. The knowles BA in the L2Pro is so much crisper and cleaner than the Tevi. The L2pro has incredible textured bass, a huge 10 mm driver,  where the Tevi’s has a dynamic 6mm driver and the bass is balanced at best, more sub bass. I’ve tested over 50 TWS’ and The L2pro sounds similar to the Sony 1000-xm3 and is one of the best sounding tws’ on the market. It’s one weakness is the lack of a manual EQ and I’d like it to have more mid range. The microphone on the L2Pro isn’t great either. Soundcore is releasing a new version of the L2Pro on 2-3 weeks that fixes some of the initial hissing and microphone issues.  I’d strongly recommend not using the stock tips on either they are garbage. Get some spinfits 360’s or some JVC spiral dots. Trust me wide bore ear tips make a HUGE difference in the sound.


I bought my L2Pro late 2019 in Singapore. How do I know where I have V.2 or V.3? Mine don't hiss.


----------



## IEManiac

d3myz said:


> So... for everyone who's been able to Manually EQ the L2pro, What are your thoughts? Care to share some of your EQ settings? Also, please denote which version of the L2pro you have.
> 
> I currently have 2 of the Ver. 3's  (that's what i've been using w/EQ) and a Version 2 which I haven't tried yet.


IMO all stock EQs in the app are rubbish. But try this one on the user-defined EQ:

100Hz - 0dB
200Hz - +6dB
400Hz - +6db
800Hz - +6dB
1.6KHz - +6dB
3.2KHz - +6dB
6.4KHz - +5dB
12.8KHz - +4dB


----------



## IEManiac

Anyone here who, like me, own and enjoy their *Aviot* *TE**-D01d ?*


----------



## nihontoman

I can't get a chance of hearing the l2p without buying it first. in that regard, oluvs vids are godsend. it's pretty simple really - if it sounds too different from the original recording, it does not reproduce the music as it was intended. and I do like my stuff neutral and natural sounding, without strange peacks and shitloads of bass.


----------



## IEManiac

nihontoman said:


> ... I do like my stuff neutral and natural sounding, without strange peacks and shitloads of bass.


So do I. Love the Tin HiFi T3 and DT880, for example. And I find the L2Ps quite enjoyable with the right app EQ.


----------



## d3myz

Odioer said:


> Oluv destroying the l2p.




I love my white Ver. 3's, but not as much as the 2's i sent back  



nihontoman said:


> Saw that vid just now. always wanted to hear these. now I don't...


They are great. like @hifi80sman mentioned, they have a really fun signature and they are very tunable. 



IEManiac said:


> I bought my L2Pro late 2019 in Singapore. How do I know where I have V.2 or V.3? Mine don't hiss.



https://www.head-fi.org/threads/goi...soon-or-are-we-there-yet.861024/post-15373411


----------



## Darkestred (Mar 13, 2020)

nihontoman said:


> I can't get a chance of hearing the l2p without buying it first. in that regard, oluvs vids are godsend. it's pretty simple really - if it sounds too different from the original recording, it does not reproduce the music as it was intended. and I do like my stuff neutral and natural sounding, without strange peacks and shitloads of bass.



But why do you take his word over other reviewers?  I'm more curious because i listened to his entire video with the L2Ps on and the original sounded great.  When he then switched to "how the Anker sounds" it sounded echoy, vocals sounded tinny and has lots of sibilance and the bass sounded loose like beats.  Then when he went back and forth with the Tevi, especially on the jazz the sax/horns sounded choked while the L2Ps were closer to the original.

When he started messing with the settings and went back and forth between the Tevi they almost sounded identical and then he's like nah garbage.  So, ionno.  Of course, its your decision and im not begging you to buy the L2Ps even if it comes off like that.

I still think the L2ps are top 5 best TWS, currently.  And they aren't bottom 5.


----------



## IEManiac

Darkestred said:


> But why do you take his word over other reviewers?  I'm more curious because i listened to his entire video with the L2Ps on and the original sounded great.  When he then switched to "how the Anker sounds" it sounded echoy, vocals sounded tinny and has lots of sibilance and the bass sounded loose like beats.  Then when he went back and forth with the Tevi, especially on the jazz the sax/horns sounded choked while the L2Ps were closer to the original.
> 
> When he started messing with the settings and went back and forth between the Tevi they almost sounded identical and then he's like nah garbage.  So, ionno.  Of course, its your decision and im not begging you to buy the L2Ps even if it comes off like that.
> 
> I still think the L2ps are top 5 best TWS, currently.  And they aren't bottom 5.


What are your top 5?


----------



## IEManiac

d3myz said:


> Soooo. I'm still in contact with anker, trying to sort out my returns and what not. They told me the serial number is on the charging case tab, you'll need to pull it out and it's on the back.
> 
> To give you an idea. My version 1 starts with 1939, Version 2 starts with 1943 and my newest version ver. 3 starts wtih 1947.


Mine start with *1951*500218. Bought in late 2019 in Singapore.


----------



## IEManiac

Pete7874 said:


> These were on Firmware 1.17 when I received them.  I updated them to 1.22.
> 
> Honestly, I cannot tell any difference in sound quality between these and my previous L2P.  The hiss is still there.  Not annoying, but noticeable.  And treble is still way too hot for my liking, even when using the Treble Reducer EQ.
> 
> I seriously need to try some other TWS at this point.  Any suggestions?


User EQ on App


----------



## FYLegend

nihontoman said:


> Saw that vid just now. always wanted to hear these. now I don't...


Have you tried the Momentum True Wireless? He said they were crap too.

L2Ps fell off my radar after the hiss fiasco and mrkwd's review of two units, not to mention the fact that they are priced high here in Canada (except that Lightning deal back in December for 130$)


----------



## caprimulgus

L2P are not really available cheaply in Australia either (only full price through amazon AU). Not sure why - regularly have sales on all the lesser models, but never L2P.


----------



## sarv

Hey guys, been using 1More ANC True Wireless for the last few months, but I can't update the firmware to 0.3.30, it's just say's it's failed, anyone knows how to fix this? thx


----------



## chinmie

Darkestred said:


> Its just sad because The Ankers are good and now this dude has just swayed x amount of people because he said so.  My ankers sound nothing like his version and wouldnt the original and anker version sound the same on the anker?  They dont.
> 
> It's almost like his fans are doing the reverse of paid reviewers.  They were looking for a reason to hate them instead of researching more but i guess thats what separates the devote to those looking for shortcuts.
> 
> ...



naah.. i wouldn't worry too much about that. his idea of accuracy of sound is too strict, that is it had to sound exactly like the playback file. as much as i love the sound of my ER4XR, and i love the (so called) flat sound of small mixing/studio monitors, i also love listening to other "more fun-sounding" tuning. 
almost every other earphones other than the ER4XR would sound odd on his rig because it would sound double EQ-ed. just listen to his "signature tuned" TWS for instance..i wouldn't buy it based on his video demo. 
he likes to bash.. therefore it's natural that his fans are also the basher-type like him.


----------



## nihontoman

IEManiac said:


> So do I. Love the Tin HiFi T3 and DT880, for example. And I find the L2Ps quite enjoyable with the right app EQ.



not really sold on the tunability though - I need to use it from pc and the phone and I'm not sure it retains the tune when disconnected from the device with the tunning ap and connected to a pc for example.... I'm quite inclined to try the galaxy Buds +, as people seem to think it is the most neutral thing ever. 




d3myz said:


> They are great. like @hifi80sman mentioned, they have a really fun signature and they are very tunable.



Retention of the tune across the device is a must then. if it doesn't do that, it's a pass for me.



Darkestred said:


> But why do you take his word over other reviewers?  I'm more curious because i listened to his entire video with the L2Ps on and the original sounded great.  When he then switched to "how the Anker sounds" it sounded echoy, vocals sounded tinny and has lots of sibilance and the bass sounded loose like beats.  Then when he went back and forth with the Tevi, especially on the jazz the sax/horns sounded choked while the L2Ps were closer to the original.
> 
> When he started messing with the settings and went back and forth between the Tevi they almost sounded identical and then he's like nah garbage.  So, ionno.  Of course, its your decision and im not begging you to buy the L2Ps even if it comes off like that.
> 
> I still think the L2ps are top 5 best TWS, currently.  And they aren't bottom 5.



I don't take his word without any basis. I have yet to see other reviews where I can hear how iems sound (of course it's not an absolute measurement, but still close enough for me). I like this type of review the most - impressions vary VERY much, everyone hears what he/she hears or THINKS he/she hears, but if you let me hear approximately how it sound compared to my own reference point, then it makes very easy to learn how it sounds compared to original recording or other iems measured the same way. I agree with you - some of the aspects of the sound for the tevi also sounded bad, but not nearly as bad as the anker did. There's also a very big chance his pair is flawed or something, so I don't know. thing is, every serious reviewer should do what oluv is doing - trying to let you listen to different phones and his method seems like the best one. only other better option is hearing them directly with your ears, and even then, oluvs method let's you hear the differences, while just hearing the iem by themselves may trick you or make you adapt to the sound. 





FYLegend said:


> Have you tried the Momentum True Wireless? He said they were crap too.
> 
> L2Ps fell off my radar after the hiss fiasco and mrkwd's review of two units, not to mention the fact that they are priced high here in Canada (except that Lightning deal back in December for 130$)



haven't tried the momentum and I also remember many reviewers thought they were crap, at least for the price. I've heard TWS iems with hiss (TRN T200) but liked the sound very much, especially for being TWS and costing only 30-ish dollars, so it isn't a big dettering factor for me, unless the hiss is VERY obvious


----------



## webvan

Sennheiser TWS 2 are due to arrive in...April apparently. Earlier than expected it seems. Some details here https://www.lesnumeriques.com/intra...-dans-ses-ecouteurs-100-sans-fil-n148233.html in French
- ANC
- 7 hour battery life without ANC
- Slightly Smaller...they still look huge as in "long", I'd rather see them being large so they can hold better in the ear and isolate better, like the Echobuds
- Battery drain supposedly fixed


----------



## IEManiac

webvan said:


> Sennheiser TWS 2 are due to arrive in...April apparently. Earlier than expected it seems. Some details here https://www.lesnumeriques.com/intra...-dans-ses-ecouteurs-100-sans-fil-n148233.html in French
> - ANC
> - 7 hour battery life without ANC
> - Slightly Smaller...they still look huge as in "long", I'd rather see them being large so they can hold better in the ear and isolate better, like the Echobuds
> - Battery drain supposedly fixed


Gamesky just dropped his review on the Tube


----------



## webvan

IEManiac said:


> Gamesky just dropped his review on the Tube


"original came out 2.5 years ago" ?! Not looking forward to another generally useless review...


----------



## mikp

hifi80sman said:


> Sure is.  At least post a few more times.


Yes, someone else mentioned another apt-x HD tws on indiegogo here, now I see backers are very nervous. What a surprise.. Creator using images found on net to represent them..


----------



## webvan

Lukewarm "review" on CNET :


----------



## RobinFood

Ticpods 2 pro already have APTx HD. Sadly that is not enough to make earphones sound amazing.

I just want to say that I am surprised these days with how good SBC can sound compared to APTx. This codec stuff is more publicity than anything else. That being said AAC seems the most stable of the bunch right now. It even passed the microwave test! APTx sounds like popcorn when the microwave is being used in the same room.


----------



## IEManiac

The next step in SQ is to equip these things with LDAC


RobinFood said:


> Ticpods 2 pro already have APTx HD. Sadly that is not enough to make earphones sound amazing.
> 
> I just want to say that I am surprised these days with how good SBC can sound compared to APTx. This codec stuff is more publicity than anything else. That being said AAC seems the most stable of the bunch right now. It even passed the microwave test! APTx sounds like popcorn when the microwave is being used in the same room.


The advantages of aptX is that you know what you are getting. SBC, on the other hand, can vary depending on implementation.


----------



## RobinFood

IEManiac said:


> The next step in SQ is to equip these things with LDAC
> 
> The advantages of aptX is that you know what you are getting. SBC, on the other hand, can vary depending on implementation.



Yeah, theoretically that is true, but in practice with every single one of my devices in the last 3 or so years, the codec has not been the weak link of the audio chain with true wireless earbuds.


----------



## KarimLeVallois

webvan said:


> Lukewarm "review" on CNET :




Will await the Technics now then...


----------



## d3myz

IEManiac said:


> Mine start with *1951*500218. Bought in late 2019 in Singapore.


Those are the Version 3's.


----------



## Darkestred (Mar 13, 2020)

nihontoman said:


> I don't take his word without any basis. I have yet to see other reviews where I can hear how iems sound (of course it's not an absolute measurement, but still close enough for me). I like this type of review the most - impressions vary VERY much, everyone hears what he/she hears or THINKS he/she hears, but if you let me hear approximately how it sound compared to my own reference point, then it makes very easy to learn how it sounds compared to original recording or other iems measured the same way. I agree with you - some of the aspects of the sound for the tevi also sounded bad, but not nearly as bad as the anker did. There's also a very big chance his pair is flawed or something, so I don't know. thing is, every serious reviewer should do what oluv is doing - trying to let you listen to different phones and his method seems like the best one. only other better option is hearing them directly with your ears, and even then, oluvs method let's you hear the differences, while just hearing the iem by themselves may trick you or make you adapt to the sound.



That's fair.  Thank you for the response 



IEManiac said:


> What are your top 5?



In no particular order

Nuarl n6/pro
L2P (if you want a refined version RHA's offering)
Adv model x - these made it only because they are surprising on movies and the music in them.  id have to listen to them more critically.
MW07
----------------------------------------
BGVP Q2, Sony WF1000, B&O - im on the fence with a 5th spot.



chinmie said:


> naah.. i wouldn't worry too much about that. his idea of accuracy of sound is too strict, that is it had to sound exactly like the playback file. as much as i love the sound of my ER4XR, and i love the (so called) flat sound of small mixing/studio monitors, i also love listening to other "more fun-sounding" tuning.
> almost every other earphones other than the ER4XR would sound odd on his rig because it would sound double EQ-ed. just listen to his "signature tuned" TWS for instance..i wouldn't buy it based on his video demo.
> he likes to bash.. therefore it's natural that his fans are also the basher-type like him.



Just one of those human moments. Not sure why i cared enough to comment but i do agree with what you are saying.

I can say for sure his rig for testing is off and yeah that $1 comment he made ...sorta lost credibility imo. Should have left that out when ragging on another iem.


----------



## Caipirina (Mar 13, 2020)

I finally received my Dyplay BQC35 ANC buds today ... and overall I am quite impressed with the ANC for a 50$ TWS set. I am also kinda liking the sound, sure, it is not stellar, but a bit more fun / engaging / toe tap inducing compared to the APP.

Now, I am having one issue ... and I wonder if either @chinmie or @d3myz  (did you send your clone back yet?) have noticed that: My right bud has a faint, but audible interference noise. It is too faint to get a proper recording of it, but sure enough it is annoying as heck during lower volume parts of music. And it is there with ANC on and off (correction: only with ANC on!). It is NOT a hiss ... best way I can describe it, for the older folks here, if something was messing with your FM radio or dial TV ... or maybe a grounding issue in your stereo.
I think it might be BT related, I had something similar on my old Parrot Zik 1 full size BT4 ANC cans ... and there it got better when I went and left all other BT items behind.
In case of the Dyplay I have tried 3 different sources so far and different locations .. and that noise is just there ...

Already thinking how to word a nice message to the seller, I would really like to get a pair that does NOT have that sound ...


----------



## webvan

Sounds exactly like the problem several of us had with one of Fill T1X earbuds (right for me and left for another member), some kind of unpleasant "fluttering static"...


----------



## hifi80sman

nihontoman said:


> not really sold on the tunability though - I need to use it from pc and the phone and I'm not sure it retains the tune when disconnected from the device with the tunning ap and connected to a pc for example.... I'm quite inclined to try the galaxy Buds +, as people seem to think it is the most neutral thing ever.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


The retain the EQ until you change it again.  Most of the time, I run them without even launching the App.


----------



## go0gle

Odioer said:


> Oluv destroying the l2p.




Unless they've completely changed the design and sound signature with this version 3 or whatever, this makes no sense to me. 

My pair sounds fantastic. Would recommend without any hesitation at all. 

I am using them with the stock tips, will order some Spinfit 360 and see how that goes..


----------



## johnston21 (Mar 13, 2020)

Comply Foam Tips Feedback:

For my T5's, Falcon's, and WF-H800.3's I've found that the Comply TrueGrip Pro for SONY (WF-1000MX3) seem to fit fine and sits in the cases ok for all 3 (at least using the small size). These are similar in barrel size to the 500-series (possibly 400-series, Comply would have to confirm), and a cross in style to the Comfort (top) and Sports Pro (bottom). Small (possibly Med) size for me.


----------



## Kvarkmeister

vaaccess said:


> Wild. Since I returned mine, I decided to try them again for $8 shipped. I wonder if they’ll cancel my order...


Hey, how did it go with the free FIIL T1 X's?


----------



## Odioer

Odioer said:


> I washed my QS2(only buds) along with my trackpants in the washing machine yesterday. To my surprise the left earbud still functions after a 40 minute full wash. The right earbud has died


Holy crap these things still work, I am seriously impressed.


----------



## cresny

webvan said:


> Lukewarm "review" on CNET :



I'd say that review was a bit better than lukewarm.  Anyway, other reviews are less ambiguous. I'm looking forward to April!


----------



## joshnor713

webvan said:


> "original came out 2.5 years ago" ?! Not looking forward to another generally useless review...



Agree. Well shot, but terrible review. I was shaking my head multiple times, like when he said the original had microUSB port. He isn't knowledgeable; didn't even bother sticking around for the sound impressions.


----------



## GeeD

sarv said:


> Hey guys, been using 1More ANC True Wireless for the last few months, but I can't update the firmware to 0.3.30, it's just say's it's failed, anyone knows how to fix this? thx



Is that the right number ...mine upgraded from delivery to 0.3.31
No idea why failed, makes sure fully charged, you have a good data connection, and good bluetooth connection, and do one bud at a time (if I remember correctly)


----------



## go0gle (Mar 13, 2020)

georgelai57 said:


> A review worth reading https://audiobacon.net/2020/03/07/best-true-wireless-earphones-for-sound-quality/



Agree with his take on the lp2 overall, but he recommends the piano EQ and just can't imagine using it for all types of sound. It works great if you want to listen at a lower volume in general, it really brings out all the detail these are capable of, but if you really want to let them rip ... the stock(recommended) one works great for me. He also mentions the treble, but i feel like they changed things around that after the last update (1.26) and it sounds quite nice.

I still have the "version 1" .. wouldn't give it up for anything 

Great write up overall.

I haven't touched any of my wired headphones in over two months...


----------



## hifi80sman

joshnor713 said:


> Agree. Well shot, but terrible review. I was shaking my head multiple times, like when he said the original had microUSB port. He isn't knowledgeable; didn't even bother sticking around for the sound impressions.


He's bought and paid for.  I only watch for unboxing, other than that, his "opinions" are pretty much just shilling for whoever at this point.


----------



## IEManiac

hifi80sman said:


> He's bought and paid for.  I only watch for unboxing, other than that, his "opinions" are pretty much just shilling for whoever at this point.


Ouch.


----------



## jasonb (Mar 14, 2020)

I just made my own "Symbio" style memory foam stuffed silicone tips for my Tevi and these put these in a whole different league. Bass got tighter and slightly deeper, and somehow the very top end seems a bit more sparkly and clear too.

The tips I used are actually tips that came with an old OnePlus Bullets wireless in their smallest size. They are a very soft rubber silicone. The memory foam to stuff inside was made from an earplug. I actually cut and hole punched these memory foam inserts a long time ago, but never really used them. I think I originally stuffed a pair of Sony hybrid tips.


----------



## chinmie

FYLegend said:


> In order to test out true independent mode, you might need to take each bud outside the Bluetooth range of the source device.



so i did a test with the Dyplay, Sony WF 3, Galaxy buds, and the Airsun X8. 
the test is leaving one buds next to the phone, and walking away with the other buds,and then repeat with the other side.
all of them can still maintain connection (music is still playing) when walking away from the phone. the Dyplay and sony has the farthest range (around 10 meters) while the Gbuds and X8 started to stutter at around 8 meters. for info, that range is also true when walking away from the phone with both units on the ears. 



nihontoman said:


> oluvs method let's you hear the differences, while just hearing the iem by themselves may trick you or make you adapt to the sound.



his method is good. people can gauge the sound of a unit better in relative to the sound of another unit. 
if only comparing to the original sound file, that's a bit misleading.. because like the ER4XR example, listening to the sound of the ER4XR for ourself is definitely different than listening to the audio file with our headphones/earphones that we use. also keep in mind, ER4XR is really prone to sound difference (especially in treble response) depending on insertion depth and eartips used. 
but still, i like that playback demo aspect of his video

the only thing that i dislike about his reviews is the way he dissed a product and calling it a complete garbage, just because it's not flat as water.

for comparison, Jim's review also does sound demo playback, but the difference is he doesn't impart his personal view. he just plays them and let's us decide. 



Caipirina said:


> I finally received my Dyplay BQC35 ANC buds today ... and overall I am quite impressed with the ANC for a 50$ TWS set. I am also kinda liking the sound, sure, it is not stellar, but a bit more fun / engaging / toe tap inducing compared to the APP.
> 
> Now, I am having one issue ... and I wonder if either @chinmie or @d3myz  (did you send your clone back yet?) have noticed that: My right bud has a faint, but audible interference noise. It is too faint to get a proper recording of it, but sure enough it is annoying as heck during lower volume parts of music. And it is there with ANC on and off (correction: only with ANC on!). It is NOT a hiss ... best way I can describe it, for the older folks here, if something was messing with your FM radio or dial TV ... or maybe a grounding issue in your stereo.
> I think it might be BT related, I had something similar on my old Parrot Zik 1 full size BT4 ANC cans ... and there it got better when I went and left all other BT items behind.
> ...



try to message the seller. my unit doesn't have any noise on either sides, both with ANC on and off.


----------



## Caipirina

chinmie said:


> try to message the seller. my unit doesn't have any noise on either sides, both with ANC on and off.



Did that a while ago ... since it has been nearly 2 months since I ordered, now I see many new feedbacks on the item on AE and several of them complain about something same / similar ... So, for now I ask nicely if they offer some kind of solution, otherwise I have to try dispute, which could be tricky as the sound is too faint to record as proof without a professional setup, which I don't have


----------



## Odioer

Odioer said:


> Well Ok, so I couldn't resist all the goodness and hold the urge for a new toy any longer and with the sudden disappearance from AliExpress I just fomo'd on finding a listing. I ordered the GT1 plus on banggood for $26 Shipped.
> 
> Link for interested: https://m.banggood.in/Haylou-GT1-Pl...ic-Headphone-p-1623984.html?rmmds=orderdetail
> 
> Edit: ordered the BLONs and qkz vk4 too. Let's see what this hype is all about.


Received the GT1 Plus and I am impressed right off the start:

1. Legible English manual along with hazardous parts details. Shows quality control.

2. The build of the case and buds are so much better than the QS2. The matte finish feels much premium and logo-less buds are a big + aesthetically.

3. Even the hinge caught my attention. The dampened hinge with smooth shutting lid with much less noise shows craftsmanship.

4. The buds fit me fine with the default tips. Comfy AF. Haylou has got the ergonomics right, cant even feel if they are there.

These definitely sound cleaner(!) than the QS2, **** ****, Soundmagic e10c, SSK (maybe, that punch though).

I have received the QKZ VK4 and blon bl03 in the last 2 days. So its been a lot overwhelming for me. I am most impressed with the blon and haylous though. Ssk being an old favourite,more listening may change this.

I'll update as I listen more.


----------



## Ascariss

webvan said:


> Sennheiser TWS 2 are due to arrive in...April apparently. Earlier than expected it seems. Some details here https://www.lesnumeriques.com/intra...-dans-ses-ecouteurs-100-sans-fil-n148233.html in French
> - ANC
> - 7 hour battery life without ANC
> - Slightly Smaller...they still look huge as in "long", I'd rather see them being large so they can hold better in the ear and isolate better, like the Echobuds
> - Battery drain supposedly fixed



Ok so digging through the BT cert and FCC, seems these earbuds use the QCC5121
https://www.qualcomm.com/products/qcc5121

So I wonder how the connection to an iphone will occur, is it daisy chain or truly wireless plus? TWS+ requires snapdragon 845 or above according to qualcomm's own site below.  And last time I checked no iphone was rocking any snapdragon tech, so I guess connecting to iphone would only be via daisy chain?

https://www.qualcomm.com/products/features/truewireless

Maybe someone knows more? I know even in the normal mode the chip is quite efficient, but if it daisy chains, then the master earbud will drain faster no?

Anywho, the internal battery is 55mAh 3.7 V (0.20Wh), LIR ZJ1254C, the charging case battery is 600mAh, AHB702535. Quick comparison to WF-1000XM3, internal battery is 0.22Wh (60mAh) and the case battery is 700mAh.


----------



## BigZ12

Ascariss said:


> Ok so digging through the BT cert and FCC, seems these earbuds use the QCC5121
> https://www.qualcomm.com/products/qcc5121
> 
> So I wonder how the connection to an iphone will occur, is it daisy chain or truly wireless plus? TWS+ requires snapdragon 845 or above according to qualcomm's own site below.  And last time I checked no iphone was rocking any snapdragon tech, so I guess connecting to iphone would only be via daisy chain?
> ...


So no NFMI then?


----------



## howdy

joshnor713 said:


> Agree. Well shot, but terrible review. I was shaking my head multiple times, like when he said the original had microUSB port. He isn't knowledgeable; didn't even bother sticking around for the sound impressions.


He also said that there was no volume control, another lie. I only watched his terrible review to see the new version.


----------



## posnera

jasonb said:


> I just made my own "Symbio" style memory foam stuffed silicone tips for my Tevi and these put these in a whole different league. Bass got tighter and slightly deeper, and somehow the very top end seems a bit more sparkly and clear too.
> 
> The tips I used are actually tips that came with an old OnePlus Bullets wireless in their smallest size. They are a very soft rubber silicone. The memory foam to stuff inside was made from an earplug. I actually cut and hole punched these memory foam inserts a long time ago, but never really used them. I think I originally stuffed a pair of Sony hybrid tips.



This is a great use for older/worn out foam tips.  Pull them off their cores and slide on to the silicone tip.  I've tried the hole-cutting/punch and found that the foam tends to tear.  Plus, the earplugs are far too big, so you need to cut out a section with the proper thickness in order to fit.


----------



## webvan

howdy said:


> He also said that there was no volume control, another lie. I only watched his terrible review to see the new version.


Adding insult to injury, when someone pointed it out with a link to the picture of the FCC info showing how volume worked (hold), he said that wasn't in his manual and only worked after an update, hehe...I guess that shows that he's pretty patient. But pretty "dumb" to be able to make THREE obvious mistakes in a 5 minute video (2.5 years old vs 1.5, USBC and No Volume) for lack of a better word.


----------



## clerkpalmer

I pre-ordered the mtw2. Something to look forward to while we all go on lock down.  The ANC, reduced size and hopefully fixed battery issues should make them very compelling. Looks like new drivers too.


----------



## mikp

so the mtw2 has volume control? everyt hing ive read shows no volume.  On full lock down here also,good the pane tickets was cheap


----------



## clerkpalmer

mikp said:


> so the mtw2 has volume control? everyt hing ive read shows no volume.  On full lock down here also,good the pane tickets was cheap


I believe there is a way to enable volume control yes per cnet.


----------



## webvan

Yes volume is there, even good'ol'Dumbsky ended up finding it ! Not too hard since it's a setting in the app based on other reviews by people with a brain


----------



## erockg

clerkpalmer said:


> I believe there is a way to enable volume control yes per cnet.


There is.  Flossy's review uses volume control.  The app the reviewers have is in Beta.  The release on 4/3 will fix this.  Can't wait!  Pre-ordered mine too!


----------



## howdy

If you watch the man Flossy Carter he shows the volume works right out of the box. On the manual you see single tap choices the tab over shows long press choices. Also in Flossy review, they seem to be the same size. He also said the ANC is the best he'd tested so far.


----------



## Borghi

Leeco said:


> Hi Guys!
> 
> I haven’t seen any mention of SoundPeats TrueAir here, so with that being said ...
> This is my first "review", so be gentle, OK?
> ...


I think you nailed it your review.  I've had a set of these for a month now and they are my favorites by far.  Love the clean, crisp sound and "openness".  The bass from the large drivers is exceptional if you get a good fit.  I bought some silicone earhooks for Airpods and they fit the Soundpeats perfectly and also improve the seal.  I just ordered a second pair of the True Airs in black from Soundpeats on Ebay.  They are no longer available on Amazon and I'm wondering if Apple threatened Soundpeats and if they are going off the market.  They are a steal for the $35.00 I paid.


----------



## webvan

Sennheiser TW v2 volume "demo" :


----------



## C_Lindbergh (Mar 14, 2020)

Finally!

I think Sennheiser just delivered the end game TWS for the foreseeable future.

I really enjoyed the sound quality on the MK I... But now with battery drain issue fixed and many refinements... 

-Better battery life (even tho I'd want a few hours more)
- Customizible touch controls
- Sort connections via app ( not true multi point, but a nice addition)
- Sidetone
- ANC
- Better fit since they're smaller

I'm deffo pre ordering these.

I hope custom tips like the Symbios will work on these as well.

Hopefully will se a version in 2-3 years with true multi point, even better battery life and more codecs. Personally I'd also prefer touch controls but I guess touch controls are more "trendy".. 

Also a big shame they missed out on wireless charging... Now you can't completely ditch the cables.


----------



## C_Lindbergh (Mar 14, 2020)

Read the manual instead of listning to clueless Youtubers if you want all correct specs/features.

https://assets.sennheiser.com/global-downloads/file/13878/M3IETW2_Manual_EN.pdf

Operating time 7 hrs (music playback via A2DP, ANC
or Transparent Hearing deactivated)

Hmm hope ANC doesn't take too much of that battery life...


----------



## rsusid

C_Lindbergh said:


> Finally!
> 
> I think Sennheiser just delivered the end game TWS for the foreseeable future.
> 
> ...


These look promising


----------



## rsusid

webvan said:


> Sennheiser TW v2 volume "demo" :



Great review


----------



## FYLegend (Mar 15, 2020)

Anyone noticed these issues on the Buds+
- Ambient sound volume dips down after a loud sound regardless of level you set it at. It still remains usable for most things, but for something like piano playing this isn't ideal (one activity I like to do with ambient sound devices)
- Case seems to discharge quite fast. I've only used them for about 5 hours total use but the case is already at 40%.

Connection is very solid, similar to the QCC3020 if not slightly better. In downtown, I've noticed it sometimes briefly cuts or spazzes on certain street blocks or when a bus passes by me.


----------



## Bhelpoori

BigZ12 said:


> So no NFMI then?


NFMI power is below the threshold for FCC testing so it won't be documented by the FCC.


----------



## Caipirina (Mar 15, 2020)

PSA: looks like Tronsmart just flooded AliExpress with yet another budget QC3020 / AptX TWS: the Onyx Ace. This time looking like a somewhat cheap AirPod 1 knock off. (Also available in white. Edit: looks like currently ONLY available in white.)

Not sure what the alleged 5$ coupon deal is supposed to be, but probably an indication that they will be like 22/23$ in the upcoming 10th anniversary sale.


----------



## caprimulgus (Mar 15, 2020)

C_Lindbergh said:


> Read the manual instead of listning to clueless Youtubers if you want all correct specs/features.
> 
> https://assets.sennheiser.com/global-downloads/file/13878/M3IETW2_Manual_EN.pdf



Damn, looks like Sennheiser has ditched AptX-LL support on the MTW 2! That’s exactly what I feared would happen a long time ago in this thread! 

If they had kept the AptX-LL support from the MTW 1, I would have ordered the MTW 2 for sure! I was hoping they would just fix the battery drain issue and add ANC, and keep everything else the same. Oh well...

I still will consider grabbing a pair of MTW 2 (between that and L2P), but AptX-LL support would have got me across the line for sure...but now, I dunno. No perfect TWS for my needs, after all!  (I guess I could forego ANC and consider trying to buy a MTW 1 for cheap, and just have to put up with the battery drain issue...)


----------



## TheLionelHutz

For those with the Tranya B530 (regular or Pro) -- do the touch controls sometimes stop accepting a single tap?  Mine keep doing this.  If I listen for a while without interacting with them, they stop accepting 1-tap to pause/restart.  The rest of the control scheme still works -- I can double tap to change the volume or long-press to skip.  It's literally just the 1-tap that doesn't work unless I reset the buds by putting them back in the case for a few seconds.


----------



## C_Lindbergh

caprimulgus said:


> Damn, looks like Sennheiser has ditched AptX-LL support on the MTW 2! That’s exactly what I feared would happen a long time ago in this thread!
> 
> If they had kept the AptX-LL support from the MTW 1, I would have ordered the MTW 2 for sure! I was hoping they would just fix the battery drain issue and add ANC, and keep everything else the same. Oh well...
> 
> I still will consider grabbing a pair of MTW 2 (between that and L2P), but AptX-LL support would have got me across the line for sure...but now, I dunno. No perfect TWS for my needs, after all!  (I guess I could forego ANC and consider trying to buy a MTW 1 for cheap, and just have to put up with the battery drain issue...)



My guess is that the new BT chip doesn't support APTX LL, since Qualcomm intends to replace it with Aptx adaptive.


----------



## cqtek

Hello.

I just posted my first review on a TWS IEMS. I've been able to test several TWS models, not many, and these are the ones I liked the most. 
I must clarify that my experience in TWS is very limited and in no case, I wanted to compare these IEMS with the wired IEMS, because I feel that the differences are still clear.
I only hope that I can review better models in the future, if the pandemic allows me...

https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/sabbat-e12.24260/reviews#item-review-23383


----------



## vaaccess

webvan said:


> Sounds exactly like the problem several of us had with one of Fill T1X earbuds (right for me and left for another member), some kind of unpleasant "fluttering static"...



Interestingly, it seemed to do that more when the tip fit was tight, btw, but still a defect.


----------



## vaaccess

Kvarkmeister said:


> Hey, how did it go with the free FIIL T1 X's?



They sent me a weird email asking "what did you buy for free", claiming they couldn't tell on their side.  I sent them a screenshot of the order and they replied by saying the canceled my order.


----------



## vaaccess

vaaccess said:


> Many posts ago, I was comparing between the 1Tx and the Mifo o7.  And, in my mind the Mifo was superior for many reasons.  But, the 1Tx I had was particularly hindered because of bad driver flex and I returned them and wrote an accurate review of both.
> 
> Fast-forward through emails and conversations with FiiL, I wanted to share my recent experiences.  FilL admitted that they had a production issue and had found a new supplier/manufacturer.  They asked me to re-review their 1Tx after sending me another pair.  I just PnP'd them and have some initial thoughts, but am holding out updating my initial review until I finish burning them in.
> 
> ...



I gave the 1TX to my daughter.  It just won't ever match the sound quality of the Mifo o7 for me.  While I was doing some testing I also tested them again against my Klipsch x11i wired IEMs.  The Mifo was better.  Sure, the x11i had more volume so I could damage my ear drums if I really wanted to, but good grief does the Mifo o7 sound amazing to me.  If I decide I ever need to try ANC, I will try something else again, but frankly I think my current journey is over.  I was contemplating the L2Pro, but after Oluv(?) ripped them apart and the sound tests he shared were so off, I just don't see the point of even trying them as I am confident they won't beat the o7.


----------



## webvan

Anyone else using the Echobuds here these days ?
I think this was mentioned at one point but when I have "ANR On" there is a weird "plugged ear" feeling when I turn the volume down from 11 to 10 (I counted all the Vol+ presses from mute). It's not there with ANR Off. This must have come with a recent FW upgrade because it definitely was not there initially.


----------



## rkoforever90

Iam considering getting sony wf-1000x3 or soundcore liberty 2 pro . Which one should I go for ?  Suggestion for any other better alternative within 200$ budget , also  welcome


----------



## howdy

rkoforever90 said:


> Iam considering getting sony wf-1000x3 or soundcore liberty 2 pro . Which one should I go for ?  Suggestion for any other better alternative within 200$ budget , also  welcome



I own both and still prefer the sound of the XM3 and day over the L2P. As for a secure fit the L2P take it. The L2Ps are no slouch in the sound Dept but I really enjoy the XM3s for sound.


----------



## Luke Skywalker (Mar 15, 2020)

cleg said:


> Our review of Mifo O7, a really good step towards "audiophiliac" TWS



Hey how do these compare with the Sony wf-1000x3 buds? Still thinking of waiting to see if they come out with wf-1000x4 with LDAC


----------



## webvan

rkoforever90 said:


> Iam considering getting sony wf-1000x3 or soundcore liberty 2 pro . Which one should I go for ?  Suggestion for any other better alternative within 200$ budget , also  welcome



L2Ps all the way for me ! For a start the WF-1000x3 fit very poorly, either you ram them in your ear with Comply tips and get a "dulled out" sound or you use silicone tips but will lose the seal as you soon as you move. Besides the L2Ps can be gotten for 100 euros, the WF-1000x3 nearly twice that amount. As far as SQ goes the Sony's are not bad out of the box but the L2Ps are much more versatile and offer a lot more detail, there's no comparison really.


----------



## SuperLuigi

So I've taken a pretty extended hiatus from this thread(I had far too many cheap TWS) but back than, the qcy t1c was sort of the go to for a budget TWS.  Been reading threw the last 15-20 pages, it seems like the QCY T5 is a really good option for a budget TWS right now.  Is there anything else that should be considered that I might have missed?


----------



## IEManiac

vaaccess said:


> I gave the 1TX to my daughter.  It just won't ever match the sound quality of the Mifo o7 for me.  While I was doing some testing I also tested them again against my Klipsch x11i wired IEMs.  The Mifo was better.  Sure, the x11i had more volume so I could damage my ear drums if I really wanted to, but good grief does the Mifo o7 sound amazing to me.  If I decide I ever need to try ANC, I will try something else again, but frankly I think my current journey is over.  I was contemplating the L2Pro, but after Oluv(?) ripped them apart and the sound tests he shared were so off, I just don't see the point of even trying them as I am confident they won't beat the o7.


Oluv is wrong.


----------



## vaaccess

IEManiac said:


> Oluv is wrong.



sure. It seems like many would agree with you on that. I’m not intrigued enough to try them, though. Feeling like I’m at a good place for a bit.


----------



## Hyperfluxe

So I've been out of the IEM game for a while now - please bear with me for a moment. I've been using my trusty Zero Audio Carbo Mezzo (with MEE double flange tips and an LG G8 ThinQ as my DAP). As for true wireless IEMs, I was gifted a pair of Jabra Elite Active 65t's which are ok and used at the gym. 

I've had the luxury of trying some higher end IEMs like the 64 Audio Tia Fourte which I absolutely love but is out of my price range. My baseline/point of reference is the Campfire Audio Andromeda's. 

Here's my question: have true wireless IEMs come far enough yet to at least cover 70-80% the SQ of some high value IEMs in the similar price range (think Audiosense T800, Massdrop Plus Universal IEM, etc since they're both $300)? Strongly considering buying a pair of the new Sennheiser MTW2.


----------



## Luke Skywalker

Hyperfluxe said:


> So I've been out of the IEM game for a while now - please bear with me for a moment. I've been using my trusty Zero Audio Carbo Mezzo (with MEE double flange tips and an LG G8 ThinQ as my DAP). As for true wireless IEMs, I was gifted a pair of Jabra Elite Active 65t's which are ok and used at the gym.
> 
> I've had the luxury of trying some higher end IEMs like the 64 Audio Tia Fourte which I absolutely love but is out of my price range. My baseline/point of reference is the Campfire Audio Andromeda's.
> 
> Here's my question: have true wireless IEMs come far enough yet to at least cover 70-80% the SQ of some high value IEMs in the similar price range (think Audiosense T800, Massdrop Plus Universal IEM, etc since they're both $300)? Strongly considering buying a pair of the new Sennheiser MTW2.


Yeah I have the same desire... I just have JH Lola's (thinking of picking up some Vision Ears custom Elysium though...) and although the Nuarl N6 Pro's sound nice for that price point, I would love an audiophile level TWS 

Hopefully in 2020...


----------



## Floris888

Hello , M5+BTR5 +Wirelless in-ear, this will we work togheter!!


----------



## Caipirina

rkoforever90 said:


> Iam considering getting sony wf-1000x3 or soundcore liberty 2 pro . Which one should I go for ?  Suggestion for any other better alternative within 200$ budget , also  welcome


This guy (reviewer I've come across for the first time) likes the Edifier TWS NB better than the SL2P ... can't add much myself since I have not heard either, but my edifiers are in the mail and were 96$. Might be worth a look into.


----------



## chinmie

Hyperfluxe said:


> So I've been out of the IEM game for a while now - please bear with me for a moment. I've been using my trusty Zero Audio Carbo Mezzo (with MEE double flange tips and an LG G8 ThinQ as my DAP). As for true wireless IEMs, I was gifted a pair of Jabra Elite Active 65t's which are ok and used at the gym.
> 
> I've had the luxury of trying some higher end IEMs like the 64 Audio Tia Fourte which I absolutely love but is out of my price range. My baseline/point of reference is the Campfire Audio Andromeda's.
> 
> Here's my question: have true wireless IEMs come far enough yet to at least cover 70-80% the SQ of some high value IEMs in the similar price range (think Audiosense T800, Massdrop Plus Universal IEM, etc since they're both $300)? Strongly considering buying a pair of the new Sennheiser MTW2.



it's a bit tricky because comparing TWS to wired , usually the benchmark is when the wired is connected to good amp. 
to me, the tuning and the driver capabilities of TWS nowadays is good enough to compete with wired in their respective price brackets, provided the comparison is when the wired earphones are connected to phones with their stock phone amp.


----------



## Darkestred (Mar 15, 2020)

Caipirina said:


> This guy (reviewer I've come across for the first time) likes the Edifier TWS NB better than the SL2P ... can't add much myself since I have not heard either, but my edifiers are in the mail and were 96$. Might be worth a look into.




$150 not on sale and only 5 hours play-time.  May be a deal breaker for many.  Let us know how they sound!

Edit looks like currently 120 and 5 hours is with ANC.


----------



## Caipirina

SuperLuigi said:


> So I've taken a pretty extended hiatus from this thread(I had far too many cheap TWS) but back than, the qcy t1c was sort of the go to for a budget TWS.  Been reading threw the last 15-20 pages, it seems like the QCY T5 is a really good option for a budget TWS right now.  Is there anything else that should be considered that I might have missed?



If AptX is your thing, Tronsmart released a few 22-25$ TWS, the Spunky Beat, the Onyx Neo and now the Onyx Ace (airpod form factor). The Spunky Beats are getting quite some praise here, which the Onyx Neo, while still sounding fantastic, seems to have some rather finicky touch fields.


----------



## Caipirina

Darkestred said:


> $150 not on sale and only 5 hours play-time.  May be a deal breaker for many.  Let us know how they sound!
> 
> Edit looks like currently 120 and 5 hours is with ANC.


96.35$ after coupons. AptX AND ANC ... 
I see how the bulk could be a deal breaker for some, but it looks actually similar to the SL2P or the 1MORE Anc ... 
well, let’s see if / when they arrive. Things feel very much up in the air right now.


----------



## gibletzor

TheLionelHutz said:


> For those with the Tranya B530 (regular or Pro) -- do the touch controls sometimes stop accepting a single tap?  Mine keep doing this.  If I listen for a while without interacting with them, they stop accepting 1-tap to pause/restart.  The rest of the control scheme still works -- I can double tap to change the volume or long-press to skip.  It's literally just the 1-tap that doesn't work unless I reset the buds by putting them back in the case for a few seconds.


I can't recall ever experiencing this on either of my pairs.


----------



## go0gle

IEManiac said:


> Oluv is wrong.



Indeed he is. 

The lp2 at around 100-130usd is solid deal. 

I am sure that soon we will have such SQ at a lower price point tho.. things are improving at a rapid pace in this space.


----------



## Caipirina (Mar 16, 2020)

chinmie said:


> try to message the seller. my unit doesn't have any noise on either sides, both with ANC on and off.



Did and actually got a very nice response. After double checking with me if it is ANC related, they are now offering to send a new set (in 7 days they say) ... the wait begineth anew...


----------



## cleg

I tested Tranya B530, and they positively surprised me. Really good mid-segment TWS with a pretty good mic


----------



## cleg

Luke Skywalker said:


> Hey how do these compare with the Sony wf-1000x3 buds? Still thinking of waiting to see if they come out with wf-1000x4 with LDAC



in pure SQ Mifo wins, they are more neutral and natural. Sony is more about ANC and other related things, it's the best ANC in TWS for now


----------



## actorlife

cleg said:


> I tested Tranya B530, and they positively surprised me. Really good mid-segment TWS with a pretty good mic



I had the Tranya for review, but got a bad pair. They did sound great, but had problems so I sent it back and never got a chance to try another pair. If you want a great pair try ofusho on amazon.


----------



## jwong

I'm very curious about the B530. I recently got the Tranya T2 Pro because it was cheap ($32 after coupon on Amazon) and I'm really happy with it other than the push-button control. Despite its categorization of "much emphasis on deep bass" I don't find the bass overpowering.

I also got the often recommended cheap QCY T5 but didn't find the sound nearly as pleasant and the touch controls seemed to only work sporadically.

Just today I received the Votomy V22. The touch controls on these work perfectly. They sound good, perhaps a little more detailed than the T2 Pro but with a very crispy treble that borders on painful. In the end I like the T2 Pro better, but wish it had the V22's touch controls.


----------



## gibletzor

jwong said:


> I'm very curious about the B530. I recently got the Tranya T2 Pro because it was cheap ($32 after coupon on Amazon) and I'm really happy with it other than the push-button control. Despite its categorization of "much emphasis on deep bass" I don't find the bass overpowering.
> 
> I also got the often recommended cheap QCY T5 but didn't find the sound nearly as pleasant and the touch controls seemed to only work sporadically.
> 
> Just today I received the Votomy V22. The touch controls on these work perfectly. They sound good, perhaps a little more detailed than the T2 Pro but with a very crispy treble that borders on painful. In the end I like the T2 Pro better, but wish it had the V22's touch controls.


The B530 (both original and updated with AptX) are among my favorites.  They're probably the most comfortable TWS I own because their contour just fits my ear without rubbing against any of the harder cartilage parts of my ear.  The sound quality is great, bass is strong without overpowering the mids and highs.  Vocals and guitars are nice and clear (the AptX version is just a tad better in this regard although it's negligible).  Sound stage isn't quite as wide as others but it's good.  I use them with JVC Spiral Dot tips, but the stock tips are better than most as well.  Not sure that I'd spend the $60 or so that Tranya has their MSRP at, but if you can catch a sale or lightning deal that drops them down to $40-$50 they're a fantastic buy!


----------



## jwong

gibletzor said:


> The B530 (both original and updated with AptX) are among my favorites.  They're probably the most comfortable TWS I own because their contour just fits my ear without rubbing against any of the harder cartilage parts of my ear.  The sound quality is great, bass is strong without overpowering the mids and highs.  Vocals and guitars are nice and clear (the AptX version is just a tad better in this regard although it's negligible).  Sound stage isn't quite as wide as others but it's good.  I use them with JVC Spiral Dot tips, but the stock tips are better than most as well.  Not sure that I'd spend the $60 or so that Tranya has their MSRP at, but if you can catch a sale or lightning deal that drops them down to $40-$50 they're a fantastic buy!



I think comfort-wise they are probably the same as the T2 Pro, since both are listed as "more comfort for most people", and I do think the T2 Pro are very comfortable. I need to put on some Spiral Dot tips and try them out. I'll keep an eye on the B530. $50 right now on Amazon with coupon, but even lower would be nice!


----------



## Luke Skywalker

Sennheiser Momentum True Wireless 2 is out.  Looks like April 3 on amazon.  

https://en-us.sennheiser.com/momentumtruewireless-2


----------



## go0gle

That's too much money imo ..


----------



## soullinker20

yeah. better to wait for discounts. the fabric casing matches the google pixel's fabric cases


----------



## Luke Skywalker

go0gle said:


> That's too much money imo ..


Ya it’s a little steep. If they had LDAC then maybe ...


----------



## assassin10000

Luke Skywalker said:


> Ya it’s a little steep. If they had LDAC then maybe ...



... or wireless charging. That and still NFMI.

It has just about everything else.


----------



## 13gsc13 (Mar 17, 2020)

Hi everyone
I have T1X and like them with comply tips
now looking at either LP2 pros or Mifo 07
I like a fun agressive sound (not analytical) - I listen to mostly country and old rock
I don’t need sound isolation or cancellation
which of there 2 would give best sound quality?
I could spend up to $200
any other suggestions appreciated
Thanks


----------



## vaaccess (Mar 17, 2020)

13gsc13 said:


> Hi everyone
> I have T1X and like them with comply tips
> now looking at either LP2 pros or Mifo 07
> I like a fun sound - I listen to mostly country and old rock
> ...



I’m not sure what you mean by “fun” sound, but I have the Mifo o7 because of their flat tone curve. If by fun you mean you want something that has more bass or treble than the artist intended, I would not get the Mifo. It will produce sound pretty much exactly as intended.  

I prefer that sound profile and love the Mifo o7. But if you want to play with sound profiles the LP2 would likely be “better” from that perspective.


----------



## go0gle

13gsc13 said:


> Hi everyone
> I have T1X and like them with comply tips
> now looking at either LP2 pros or Mifo 07
> I like a fun agressive sound (not analytical) - I listen to mostly country and old rock
> ...



I mean ... "fun" is probably the best way to describe the lp2


----------



## webvan

webvan said:


> Anyone else using the Echobuds here these days ?
> I think this was mentioned at one point but when I have "ANR On" there is a weird "plugged ear" feeling when I turn the volume down from 11 to 10 (I counted all the Vol+ presses from mute). It's not there with ANR Off. This must have come with a recent FW upgrade because it definitely was not there initially.



So no one at all here using the Echobuds ?!


----------



## asak

webvan said:


> Anyone else using the Echobuds here these days ?
> I think this was mentioned at one point but when I have "ANR On" there is a weird "plugged ear" feeling when I turn the volume down from 11 to 10 (I counted all the Vol+ presses from mute). It's not there with ANR Off. This must have come with a recent FW upgrade because it definitely was not there initially.



I have an Iphone XR and am on "Device Software Version" = 309467643. I don't seem to get a plugged ear feeling. Though sometimes I think foam or smaller tips can help relieve the pressure, if that seems to be building up.


----------



## Luke Skywalker

Hey guys, I just saw the Sony WF-1000XM3’s on amazon renewed for $140. Pretty tempting...


----------



## webvan (Mar 17, 2020)

Check out my most recent comment on the WF-1000xm3, the fit is a disaster 

@asak - Thanks for pitching in. MIn my case it's clearly volume related, with the ANR ON going from level 11 to level 10 changes the sound completely in the right eat. At 11 it's fine at 10 the right ear is "plugged". I see I'm on 306714878 so way behind you ! I'll try to update them, the process is such a pain with things supposedly happening "in the background". Couldn't do like everyone else and have a menu dedicated to that...


----------



## Sam L

webvan said:


> Check out my most recent comment on the WF-1000xm3, the fit is a disaster
> 
> @asak - Thanks for pitching in. MIn my case it's clearly volume related, with the ANR ON going from level 11 to level 10 changes the sound completely in the right eat. At 11 it's fine at 10 the right ear is "plugged". I see I'm on 306714878 so way behind you ! I'll try to update them, the process is such a pain with things supposedly happening "in the background". Couldn't do like everyone else and have a menu dedicated to that...



and even if you do happen to get a good fit, as I did, forget about moving around. The Sony's break seal easily and have this bizarre "flopping" thing going on walking briskly. And I'm not talking about runner's thump. 

That said, they are still one of my favorite TWS earphones. I have relegated them to sit down use only.


----------



## assassin10000 (Mar 17, 2020)

webvan said:


> Check out my most recent comment on the WF-1000xm3, the fit is a disaster
> 
> @asak - Thanks for pitching in. MIn my case it's clearly volume related, with the ANR ON going from level 11 to level 10 changes the sound completely in the right eat. At 11 it's fine at 10 the right ear is "plugged". I see I'm on 306714878 so way behind you ! I'll try to update them, the process is such a pain with things supposedly happening "in the background". Couldn't do like everyone else and have a menu dedicated to that...



I hate that vacuum or plugged ear feeling. I get it with almost ALL silicone tips. I stick to foam for the most part now.



Sam L said:


> and even if you do happen to get a good fit, as I did, forget about moving around. The Sony's break seal easily and have this bizarre "flopping" thing going on walking briskly. And I'm not talking about runner's thump.



Yeah, that is one of the reasons I skipped it. I just couldn't see them not falling out of my ears. I've got short and smallish ear canals so fit is extra tricky at times.


Speaking of Sony in general though, I recently realized the Mavin Air-XR's are similar in sound signature to the MH755's. The EQ I came up with to use for each, ended up being pretty much identical.


----------



## Luke Skywalker

I've come to the conclusion that Sony isn't going to license LDAC to any other TWS manufacturers so they can have it exclusively on the WF-1000xm4


----------



## dweaver (Mar 18, 2020)

I suspect LDAC is not possible on true wireless due to bandwidth constraints,  of having to send to both buds simultaneously, plus the power consumption would also be an issue. That's why AAPTx HD is not supported as well. I think there is a new standard being developed that will get around the bandwidth limitations but I am unsure when products will even start to be developed for it. Until then APTx and AAC are as good as it's going to get for true wireless I think.


----------



## nuggetbro

I want to love my Mifo o7 but find them uncomfortable and they slip out of my ears. Can anyone recommend me some eartips that fit in the case? I like the AZLA but impossible to get them at the moment, in AU at least.


----------



## voicemaster (Mar 18, 2020)

nuggetbro said:


> I want to love my Mifo o7 but find them uncomfortable and they slip out of my ears. Can anyone recommend me some eartips that fit in the case? I like the AZLA but impossible to get them at the moment, in AU at least.


Wow I find mifo07 is very comfortable and I can even use it while sleeping. I am using a modded foam tips on them and it makes a big difference as using a silicone tips creates a pressure on my ears.


----------



## webvan

Sam L said:


> and even if you do happen to get a good fit, as I did, forget about moving around. The Sony's break seal easily and have this bizarre "flopping" thing going on walking briskly. And I'm not talking about runner's thump.
> 
> That said, they are still one of my favorite TWS earphones. I have relegated them to sit down use only.



Yes I'm not sure what they were thinking, but they are large, heavy and stick out so unless you ram them into your ear canals (with the associated discomfort after a short while) well...they break seal. The L2Ps have a similar form factor BUT they come with wings to keep them in place. Hopefully Sony will have that too for the next generation as they did for the previous generation with the WF-1000x's "mini-wings".

An update on the volume change -> plugged ear with the Echobuds. It's very confusing but after trying them with my newer Nokia 8 vs my usual Lenovo P2 daily driver...well it's not there, regardless of the volume. The Lenovo is running Android 7 and the Nokia Android 8 but it's hard to see how that would have an impact on how ANR works !


----------



## vaaccess

nuggetbro said:


> I want to love my Mifo o7 but find them uncomfortable and they slip out of my ears. Can anyone recommend me some eartips that fit in the case? I like the AZLA but impossible to get them at the moment, in AU at least.



I’m using these, and love them.
misodiko TWS-Pro Earbuds Tips https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07RJKTHSG/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_sXGCEbY8705QR

I also have these and they also fit me very well, but I prefer foam to silicone:
https://www.radioshack.com/products...licone-replace-tips-s-m-l?variant=20331622277


Hopefully you can get either or both in AU!!!


----------



## Luke Skywalker

dweaver said:


> I suspect LDAC is not possible on true wireless due to bandwidth constraints,  of having to send to bother buds simultaneously, plus the power consumption would also be an issue. That's why AAPTx HD is not supported as well. I think there is a new standard being developed that will get around the bandwidth limitations but I am unsure when products will even start to be developed for it. Until then APTx and AAC are as good as it's going to get for true wireless I think.


Nice... There are some LDAC bluetooth cables you can use with IEM's but I haven't tried them, except for JH Audio's with my Lola's.  Problem is the bass on it wasn't adjustable and it was really heavy. 

Best solution I've been able to come up with is the ES100, which has LDAC.


----------



## Luke Skywalker

nuggetbro said:


> I want to love my Mifo o7 but find them uncomfortable and they slip out of my ears. Can anyone recommend me some eartips that fit in the case? I like the AZLA but impossible to get them at the moment, in AU at least.


I've never seen those ones, but I'm using Acoustune AET08 tips with my Nuarl N6 Pro's and JH Audio Lola's.  They're AWESOME tips...  I always had issues with buds falling out of my ears before with stock tips, foam ones, etc. 

Only issue is they might or might not fit on your buds...


----------



## Sam L

webvan said:


> So no one at all here using the Echobuds ?!



I still do! well, not for last several weeks because of a persistent ear infection.   During this time, it's been Sony xm3 (headphones) for anc and AKG K371 when anc is not needed.


----------



## Sam L

webvan said:


> So no one at all here using the Echobuds ?!


Was there another firmware update? I updated back in January-ish


----------



## webvan

Yes, just checked mine and the "update in the background" worked since yesterday, I also have 309467643 now. No idea on what's new and neither does Google ! The "plugged ear" feeling in the right earbud still appears when going from VOL11 to VOL10 with my old Android 7 phone, very strange !


----------



## d3myz (Mar 19, 2020)

Two quick thoughts. The new firmware for the Sony XM3s is a big improvement. ANC and ambient modes sound better to me and they volume doesn’t jump all over the place when using Siri. Also thanks @assassin10000 for the Mavin Air XR’s they are fantastic! I’m really impressed. The detail and soundstage is just wow!


----------



## Caipirina (Mar 19, 2020)

Sooo, Whizzer has a new set out, the C3, with QC3020 / AptX at around 40$ ... but otherwise pretty 'boring' at least from presentation / first look ...

but what really bugs me are 31(!) 5star reviews all from MY and around the same time (not a single one has pictures) ... it is sad when sellers think we won't notice .. so, auto-pass on these unless some day I see some blazing reviews ...




(Currently listening to the TP1, which I still think I paid too much at 55$ for, they are ok, incredibly flimsy to take out of the case, and I always have to change the tips for listening, as they only fit back in the case with super flat tips)


----------



## Dcell7

Caipirina said:


> (Currently listening to the TP1, which I still think I paid too much at 55$ for, they are ok, incredibly flimsy to take out of the case, and I always have to change the tips for listening, as they only fit back in the case with super flat tips)



i share your opinion though i got them for about 30$. Not bad but nothing special either.


----------



## RobinFood

Well, I ended up returning the wf-1000xm3. I really enjoyed them but got two different issues with two buds, and had some frustrations with customer service.

Anyways, in back with the Nuarls and really missed that amazing imaging.

What I am looking for probably doesn't exist, but it's there any bud with ambient mode, good passive isolation, with a small case, that you can sleep on the side with? The new Galaxy buds+ or echo buds check so many boxes but I think the lack of APTx is bothersome given how solid the APTx connection is on my phone.


----------



## webvan

I doubt it, the only "earphones" I've ever been able to lie on the side with (of fit under a ski helmet) are the Apple Earpods !


----------



## assassin10000

RobinFood said:


> Well, I ended up returning the wf-1000xm3. I really enjoyed them but got two different issues with two buds, and had some frustrations with customer service.
> 
> Anyways, in back with the Nuarls and really missed that amazing imaging.
> 
> What I am looking for probably doesn't exist, but it's there any bud with ambient mode, good passive isolation, with a small case, that you can sleep on the side with? The new Galaxy buds+ or echo buds check so many boxes but I think the lack of APTx is bothersome given how solid the APTx connection is on my phone.



Maybe in several more years lol.



webvan said:


> I doubt it, the only "earphones" I've ever been able to lie on the side with (of fit under a ski helmet) are the Apple Earpods !



I could with the Tronsmart Spunky Beats. They sound good but not great. And of course lack ambient/anc.


----------



## hifi80sman

RobinFood said:


> What I am looking for probably doesn't exist, but it's there any bud with ambient mode, good passive isolation, with a small case, that you can sleep on the side with? The new Galaxy buds+ or echo buds check so many boxes but I think the lack of APTx is bothersome given how solid the APTx connection is on my phone.


It's unfortunate, because the tech is there, it's just someone with the balls to get it done and not cut corners for short-term gain.  If someone truly invested in a game-changer, even if it costs more upfront, it would pay dividends long-term.  Too many are looking for quarterly results, so they don't play the long game.


----------



## Sebulr

I have just got my hands on some kz s1 dual driver tws, and the left earpiece is defective. It pops and crackles with static that can be heard even when held about 30cm from my ear. It does this even when unpaired. And at any volume level. The right earphone sounds fine. It's not just ground noise, it's interference or something wired incorrectly. Anyone else experiencing this? 

Also the tips are small or medium, and I use large or extra large. So I had to borrow some off my bomaker sifi. Needless to say, I'll probably be sending these back to amazon. Looks like I'll be going back to my bomaker sifi for my tws fix.


----------



## Sebulr

RobinFood said:


> Well, I ended up returning the wf-1000xm3. I really enjoyed them but got two different issues with two buds, and had some frustrations with customer service.
> 
> Anyways, in back with the Nuarls and really missed that amazing imaging.
> 
> What I am looking for probably doesn't exist, but it's there any bud with ambient mode, good passive isolation, with a small case, that you can sleep on the side with? The new Galaxy buds+ or echo buds check so many boxes but I think the lack of APTx is bothersome given how solid the APTx connection is on my phone.


My mifo 05 are tiny and can be worn while sleeping. They also have an ambient mode although, the manual doesn't mention it. Mine appear to be SBC or apt X only however. Not sure if they are still available for sale, although there appears to be various rebadged ones such as trn. The case is a medium size, but has a huge battery. The battery life of the buds is about 7 hours.

Sound is quite polite in the treble area, slight bass boost but, not much. Almost a neutral signature for a chi fi headphone.


----------



## vaaccess

Sebulr said:


> My mifo 05 are tiny and can be worn while sleeping. They also have an ambient mode although, the manual doesn't mention it. Mine appear to be SBC or apt X only however. Not sure if they are still available for sale, although there appears to be various rebadged ones such as trn. The case is a medium size, but has a huge battery. The battery life of the buds is about 7 hours.
> 
> Sound is quite polite in the treble area, slight bass boost but, not much. Almost a neutral signature for a chi fi headphone.



How do you enable the undocumented ambient mode?  Wondering if the Mifo o7 might have that secret feature...!!!????


----------



## Sebulr

vaaccess said:


> How do you enable the undocumented ambient mode?  Wondering if the Mifo o7 might have that secret feature...!!!????


Hold down the front right button for 3 seconds or the rear left, if that makes sense? Incidentally mine only have 1 green led in the case. It never changes colour. Took an awful long time to run the case battery down to check.


----------



## go0gle (Mar 19, 2020)

The soundcore app just got a bunch of new custom EQs from the guys who helped tune the lp2  ..

digging the one from Darrel Thorp & Mollino!


----------



## assassin10000

Got a pair of LP2 (rev3) to try out thanks to @d3myz. Been playing around with the HearID & build in soundcore app EQ. Pretty nifty it saves the EQ to the earphones.

These are brighter and may be slightly harsher than the Mavin Air-XR's. I typically don't listen at louder volumes so I can't say how it will be up past vol 5-6 of 16. They also have plenty of bass, fortunately it's clean and not muddy. I still ended up pulling a couple DB's on the EQ at 100hz.


----------



## McCol

Got my first set of true wireless earbuds yesterday. The Cambridge Audio Melomania M1.

Very impressive although I only have the Bluetooth cable Audeze lcd i3 to compare with which is unjust.

Fit is excellent, sound seems pretty neutral to me, update added some extra volume.


----------



## IEManiac

assassin10000 said:


> Got a pair of LP2 (rev3) to try out thanks to @d3myz. Been playing around with the HearID & build in soundcore app EQ. Pretty nifty it saves the EQ to the earphones.
> 
> These are brighter and may be slightly harsher than the Mavin Air-XR's. I typically don't listen at louder volumes so I can't say how it will be up past vol 5-6 of 16. They also have plenty of bass, fortunately it's clean and not muddy. I still ended up pulling a couple DB's on the EQ at 100hz.


I find all preset EQs unsatisfactory. But if you push the midrange sliders--200Hz, 400Hz, 800Hz, 1.6kHz--all the way up to +6dB, and some of the treble up too on the user-defined EQ, these become insane beasts.


----------



## webvan

Interesting that you can sleep with the Mifo 05 and 07, I didn't realize that they were that small ! Has anyone compared them to the SSK or Bomakers that were the smallest I'd seen so far...and didn't work for me for sleeping on the side as they put too much pressure. Same for fitting under a ski helmet.

Going to update the L2P software ASAP for the new presets.


----------



## Mouseman

go0gle said:


> The soundcore app just got a bunch of new custom EQs from the guys who helped tune the lp2  ..
> 
> digging the one from Darrel Thorp & Mollino!


The Thorp one is great for electronic music. I'd love to see what these look like.


----------



## RobinFood

Sebulr said:


> My mifo 05 are tiny and can be worn while sleeping. They also have an ambient mode although, the manual doesn't mention it. Mine appear to be SBC or apt X only however. Not sure if they are still available for sale, although there appears to be various rebadged ones such as trn. The case is a medium size, but has a huge battery. The battery life of the buds is about 7 hours.
> 
> Sound is quite polite in the treble area, slight bass boost but, not much. Almost a neutral signature for a chi fi headphone.



Yeah, I tried a mifo clone and they were really small. I had no idea they had APTx support or an ambient mode. They seemed worth it after they came out but creeped up in price quite a bit, almost doubling. The color also seems a bit much.

I almost considered the shanling mtw100 but they don't support APTx and the touch controls feel like they might get in the way of resting on the side.

I can also sleep fine with the x12 earbuds, but they just don't sound good enough to make me want to use them more than that...


----------



## webvan

No way I could sleep with my X12s while lying on the side or fit them under my ski helmet, I'm puzzled !


----------



## voicemaster

webvan said:


> Interesting that you can sleep with the Mifo 05 and 07, I didn't realize that they were that small ! Has anyone compared them to the SSK or Bomakers that were the smallest I'd seen so far...and didn't work for me for sleeping on the side as they put too much pressure. Same for fitting under a ski helmet.
> 
> Going to update the L2P software ASAP for the new presets.


I am using my mifo07 on the bed at night when I am watching youtube and it is the most comfortable tws to use while sleeping on your side too. Can't do it with 1more ANC lol.


----------



## Sebulr

RobinFood said:


> Yeah, I tried a mifo clone and they were really small. I had no idea they had APTx support or an ambient mode. They seemed worth it after they came out but creeped up in price quite a bit, almost doubling. The color also seems a bit much.
> 
> I almost considered the shanling mtw100 but they don't support APTx and the touch controls feel like they might get in the way of resting on the side.
> 
> I can also sleep fine with the x12 earbuds, but they just don't sound good enough to make me want to use them more than that...


Hmmm my original mifo 05 don't have apt x as far as I'm aware. My phone only just got it recently with android 10 update. It does have aac, which I'm fine with. I can't tell the difference to be honest.


----------



## Sebulr

webvan said:


> Interesting that you can sleep with the Mifo 05 and 07, I didn't realize that they were that small ! Has anyone compared them to the SSK or Bomakers that were the smallest I'd seen so far...and didn't work for me for sleeping on the side as they put too much pressure. Same for fitting under a ski helmet.
> 
> Going to update the L2P software ASAP for the new presets.


Yes I have the the bomaker sifi and the mifo 05. The bomaker are slightly smaller but sit deeper in your ear. I have big ear holes but I can sleep in both of them. Your milage may vary. I find the mifo 05 more comfortable because they are a shallower fit. 

The bomaker sifi are more v shaped and have more treble and bass than the mifo 05. A little bit fatiguing if I'm not in the mood. The mifo are fine all day as they are more polite.


----------



## Peddler

Surprisingly enough I don't have any problems lying on my side whilst wearing my Sony WF1000XM3 headphones - I've never accidentally triggered the touch controls either. In all fairness though I have been using in ear monitors in bed for many years now and I tend to place my hand under my head which prevents the iem's from being pushed to far into my ears. 

In all fairness though I still think you can't beat the Apple Airpods for bedtime listening (as long as you don't listen to loud as they leak sound like crazy).


----------



## Caipirina (Mar 20, 2020)

RobinFood said:


> Yeah, I tried a mifo clone and they were really small. I had no idea they had APTx support or an ambient mode. They seemed worth it after they came out but creeped up in price quite a bit, almost doubling. The color also seems a bit much.
> 
> I almost considered the shanling mtw100 but they don't support APTx and the touch controls feel like they might get in the way of resting on the side.
> 
> I can also sleep fine with the x12 earbuds, but they just don't sound good enough to make me want to use them more than that...



Wait what? Which Mifo has AptX?
I tried those isntructions for the hidden ambient mode once and all I got was the 2 buds not recognizing each other anymore (Mifo 05) ... took me forever to get them back to normal, so I stopped trying that ... but aptx? That would be awesome! Not sure though how to test that ...

Edit: No, the Mifo 05 do NOT have 'hidden' AptX. Just tested this with my TempoTec V1A player ... from experience, when I have a non AptX set connected and then force AptX on the player, the player restarts, that's what just now happened twice with the Mifo 05, so, maybe clone of 07

in semi unrelated news, postal service has been suspended (in my location) thanks to the ongoing pandemic ... so, no new TWS for a while ... several in the mail ...


----------



## Sebulr

Caipirina said:


> Wait what? Which Mifo has AptX?
> I tried those isntructions for the hidden ambient mode once and all I got was the 2 buds not recognizing each other anymore (Mifo 05) ... took me forever to get them back to normal, so I stopped trying that ... but aptx? That would be awesome! Not sure though how to test that ...
> 
> Edit: No, the Mifo 05 do NOT have 'hidden' AptX. Just tested this with my TempoTec V1A player ... from experience, when I have a non AptX set connected and then force AptX on the player, the player restarts, that's what just now happened twice with the Mifo 05


Must have unit variance. Mine were an early set. Had them almost a year. Vortex Reviews had his with different coloured lights in his case, and mine didn't. Probably a different batch, lack of parts or something. I work in manufacturing, so I have understand these kind of things happen.


----------



## Caipirina

Caipirina said:


> Wait what? Which Mifo has AptX?
> I tried those isntructions for the hidden ambient mode once and all I got was the 2 buds not recognizing each other anymore (Mifo 05) ... took me forever to get them back to normal, so I stopped trying that ... but aptx? That would be awesome! Not sure though how to test that ...
> 
> Edit: No, the Mifo 05 do NOT have 'hidden' AptX. Just tested this with my TempoTec V1A player ... from experience, when I have a non AptX set connected and then force AptX on the player, the player restarts, that's what just now happened twice with the Mifo 05, so, maybe clone of 07
> ...



i see the Mifo 07 are advertised with AptX. Oh and looky here, the10th anniversary sales prices are out. Might get me those O7? Not sure


----------



## webvan

Peddler said:


> Surprisingly enough I don't have any problems lying on my side whilst wearing my Sony WF1000XM3 headphones - I've never accidentally triggered the touch controls either. In all fairness though I have been using in ear monitors in bed for many years now and I tend to place my hand under my head which prevents the iem's from being pushed to far into my ears.
> 
> In all fairness though I still think you can't beat the Apple Airpods for bedtime listening (as long as you don't listen to loud as they leak sound like crazy).



What ? Surely you can't be lying on your side with your head/ear against the pillow with the WF-1000xm3 ?!


----------



## assassin10000

webvan said:


> What ? Surely you can't be lying on your side with your head/ear against the pillow with the WF-1000xm3 ?!



Ditto. 

Can't even imagine it with the LP2 which is similar in design/fit.


----------



## hifi80sman

assassin10000 said:


> Ditto.
> 
> Can't even imagine it with the LP2 which is similar in design/fit.


They said they're putting their hands under the head as well, so I can only assume that's what they're doing.


----------



## go0gle (Mar 20, 2020)

assassin10000 said:


> I typically don't listen at louder volumes so I can't say how it will be up past vol 5-6 of 16.



I am sure you've already tried, but I find the piano preset to be perfect for low volume listening.



IEManiac said:


> I find all preset EQs unsatisfactory. But if you push the midrange sliders--200Hz, 400Hz, 800Hz, 1.6kHz--all the way up to +6dB, and some of the treble up too on the user-defined EQ, these become insane beasts.



You mind sharing a screenshot of yours ?



Mouseman said:


> The Thorp one is great for electronic music. I'd love to see what these look like.



Yes!

It would really cool to know for what music these guys tuned for, but that would be too much to ask. They should let us see what they look like tho.. wonder if they have more to play with than what is offered in the custom one for us.


----------



## assassin10000

hifi80sman said:


> They said they're putting their hands under the head as well, so I can only assume that's what they're doing.



Even then they stick out too much for me lol. Gave it a try last night.



go0gle said:


> I am sure you've already tried, but I find the piano preset to be perfect for low volume listening.
> 
> You mind sharing a screenshot of yours ?
> 
> It would really cool to know for what music these guys tuned for, but that would be too much to ask. They should let us see what they look like tho.. wonder if they have more to play with than what is offered in the custom one for us.



I'm not a fan of the presets. 

Like this, but all the way up. I tried it but too forward and a bit unnatural.


I do agree, wish they let us see what the presets are.


----------



## webvan

hifi80sman said:


> They said they're putting their hands under the head as well, so I can only assume that's what they're doing.



Hands ? Missed that part, so the hands are used to raise the ear ? Sounds like a lot of work, and temporary too ! If I really need that I'll use my wired EarPods and be done with it


----------



## hifi80sman

webvan said:


> Hands ? Missed that part, so the hands are used to raise the ear ? Sounds like a lot of work, and temporary too ! If I really need that I'll use my wired EarPods and be done with it


Too much work for me!  I just lay on my back.  It's the price I pay to enjoy good music.


----------



## TheLionelHutz

Anyone with the Mifo O2 able to comment on the call quality?


----------



## TooFrank

rsusid said:


> Yeah I wish I could afford the B&O Beoplay E8


FWIW: I bought the E8 when they where released > 2years ago. They have been good to me ever since. What has been bothering me, was the drop-outs and the problem with the left not playing when no fuel left in the charging case. Despite this, the sound has always been fine, although I had hoped for a better fit. Now the 3rd generation arrived, I couldn't resist....They are really great. Using the comply tips to get a proper seal. No ANC, but to my big surprise, they are very good when walking. That is, they do not tend to give this rumble for each step as other IEMS may tend to do (Vista's, Sony's). The sound is on the warm side, but very nice and adjustable with the app. I do find it as a major step-up from the 1st generation - but of course YMMW


----------



## willyk (Mar 20, 2020)

Hey - can anyone inform me why my TWS occasionally suffer from horrible pitch-shift?  Is this a BT thing?

On a run today, where I use music at a specific bpm to manage my cadence, I noticed that a song was going up and down randomly in pitch.  W.T.F?  Is this a connection issue where pitch information communicated over BT somehow gets altered if it's a weak signal?  I've heard this a bit before transiently, and wondered if I was just hearing something weird b/c I was on a run.  But today, it was _really_ bad and it didn't go away.  I figured that resetting the source and my TWS, then re-pairing would probably fix the issue.

Any insight would be appreciated.


----------



## CocaCola15 (Mar 20, 2020)

McCol said:


> Got my first set of true wireless earbuds yesterday. The Cambridge Audio Melomania M1.
> 
> Very impressive although I only have the Bluetooth cable Audeze lcd i3 to compare with which is unjust.
> 
> Fit is excellent, sound seems pretty neutral to me, update added some extra volume.


I've tried several TW buds, and still like the M1s best. I am in a minority, but doesn't matter to me. I use the OEM foam tips, which I think are they best sound. Ended up getting a bunch from CA by having a friend in the UK order a pack. They also make a larger foam, and I have a few of those. Best news is, if you use the foams, a hydrogen peroxide wash and water rinse and squeeze/dry return them to like new. Very rugged material. Some folks have fit issues with the, I don't. I can't update the FW, only seems to work with Android. No matter. EnjoyI


----------



## jant71

https://www.translatetheweb.com/?re...review/article/202003/19/3772.html?from=menu#

Their one sentence take on the Panny  RZ-S50W...
   "The RZ-S50W is one of the best in the world, ranging from the first generation to the noise canceling performance of high perfection, and the sound quality."


----------



## RobinFood

jant71 said:


> https://www.translatetheweb.com/?re...review/article/202003/19/3772.html?from=menu#
> 
> Their one sentence take on the Panny  RZ-S50W...
> "The RZ-S50W is one of the best in the world, ranging from the first generation to the noise canceling performance of high perfection, and the sound quality."



They are being released as cheaper alternatives to the Technics being released in two weeks and will be using the same anc tech but with a smaller driver that isn't as exotic and without the special acoustic chamber.

Panasonic owns the Technics company, for their higher end audio products, because the Panasonic brand here in Japan is not seen as very sexy or exciting.


----------



## Caipirina (Mar 20, 2020)

willyk said:


> Hey - can anyone inform me why my TWS occasionally suffer from horrible pitch-shift?  Is this a BT thing?
> 
> On a run today, where I use music at a specific bpm to manage my cadence, I noticed that a song was going up and down randomly in pitch.  W.T.F?  Is this a connection issue where pitch information communicated over BT somehow gets altered if it's a weak signal?  I've heard this a bit before transiently, and wondered if I was just hearing something weird b/c I was on a run.  But today, it was _really_ bad and it didn't go away.  I figured that resetting the source and my TWS, then re-pairing would probably fix the issue.
> 
> Any insight would be appreciated.


I think I know exactly what you mean. Feels like old day tape player trying to catch up? (Or organ grinder, for the really old folks here  ) I had that on rather rare occasions, but I agree that this might be a BT thing.
Btw, what cadence are you aiming for and what music you found? There was a good podcast motion traxx or something, they still have some old episodes online with 180BPM which are fun for steady cadence training. Usually I only find very aggressive techno in that bpm.


----------



## Mouseman

RobinFood said:


> They are being released as cheaper alternatives to the Technics being released in two weeks and will be using the same anc tech but with a smaller driver that isn't as exotic and without the special acoustic chamber.
> 
> Panasonic owns the Technics company, for their higher end audio products, because the Panasonic brand here in Japan is not seen as very sexy or exciting.


That one picture where someone is holding the bud freaks me out. Either they have someone with baby hands, or those things are *huge. *It'll be interesting to see reviews.


----------



## IEManiac

assassin10000 said:


> Even then they stick out too much for me lol. Gave it a try last night.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


You gotta bring down the three rightmost sliders down a bit.


----------



## assassin10000 (Mar 20, 2020)

IEManiac said:


> You gotta bring down the three rightmost sliders down a bit.



Gave it a shot. Dunno about it yet. Gonna keep playing with it.





I've also been tip rolling. Ended up using cut T400 foams and no wings (like sony xm3). Cut about at about 3/5, so just over half left.


----------



## chinmie

webvan said:


> No way I could sleep with my X12s while lying on the side or fit them under my ski helmet, I'm puzzled !





Peddler said:


> Surprisingly enough I don't have any problems lying on my side whilst wearing my Sony WF1000XM3 headphones - I've never accidentally triggered the touch controls either. In all fairness though I have been using in ear monitors in bed for many years now and I tend to place my hand under my head which prevents the iem's from being pushed to far into my ears.
> 
> In all fairness though I still think you can't beat the Apple Airpods for bedtime listening (as long as you don't listen to loud as they leak sound like crazy).



I never wore ski helmet before, but i can wear most of my TWS for sleeping sidewise, with the X12 as some of the more flush fitting. Heck..i even can wear the XM3 for sleeping and inside my motorcycle flip-up helmet. Lately i don't listen to music to sleep anymore, but i occasionally use them TWS to block out noise or play some waterfall/ waves sound to help sleeping.


----------



## FYLegend

Any way to increase SBC bitrate on Windows 10? The Galaxy Buds+ SBC quality is quite disappointing as it rattles and fuzzes a lot.


----------



## chevybit

Hi, I'm interested in finding some good TWS with EQ options (without rooting phone). What TWS earphones provide such apps?

I've used the Samsung Buds, Shanling MWT100 (DD), QCY T5, SSK BT03, and many other. One thing I miss is some custom EQ. Buds had few presets, but it was not enough.


----------



## Odioer

chevybit said:


> Hi, I'm interested in finding some good TWS with EQ options (without rooting phone). What TWS earphones provide such apps?
> 
> I've used the Samsung Buds, Shanling MWT100 (DD), QCY T5, SSK BT03, and many other. One thing I miss is some custom EQ. Buds had few presets, but it was not enough.


I use system eq on the g7 works fine for me with tws too.


----------



## Sebulr

chevybit said:


> Hi, I'm interested in finding some good TWS with EQ options (without rooting phone). What TWS earphones provide such apps?
> 
> I've used the Samsung Buds, Shanling MWT100 (DD), QCY T5, SSK BT03, and many other. One thing I miss is some custom EQ. Buds had few presets, but it was not enough.


None of mine have inbuilt presets, but I use Poweramp on my phone and it has a 10? Band custom eq, that you can store your own eq presets on for mood/earphone. If I'm using a streaming app I use an app called bass eq but that is only the bog standard android eq with 5 bands and weird effects.


----------



## chevybit

Sebulr said:


> None of mine have inbuilt presets, but I use Poweramp on my phone and it has a 10? Band custom eq, that you can store your own eq presets on for mood/earphone. If I'm using a streaming app I use an app called bass eq but that is only the bog standard android eq with 5 bands and weird effects.



How does Poweramp work with streaming players? I'd like to use the native Spotify and Tidal apps on my Android phone, and not another player's UI.


----------



## TheLionelHutz

chevybit said:


> How does Poweramp work with streaming players? I'd like to use the native Spotify and Tidal apps on my Android phone, and not another player's UI.


I'm not sure about Tidal, but I use Eqfy with Spotify. It only works with apps that have the ability to use Google's awful "audio effects" that has a few EQ presets. It's not a system-wide thing. On my phone that's Google Music and Spotify. It's a 10-band EQ with a few presets and a bunch of custom slots to save your own.

For local files, I use Double Twist. Has a 10-band EQ built in with a lot of good presets, but only 1 custom "manual" slot. I don't mind that trade-off over other apps because it doesn't look like butt.


----------



## Caipirina

chinmie said:


> I never wore ski helmet before, but i can wear most of my TWS for sleeping sidewise, with the X12 as some of the more flush fitting. Heck..i even can wear the XM3 for sleeping and inside my motorcycle flip-up helmet. Lately i don't listen to music to sleep anymore, but i occasionally use them TWS to block out noise or play some waterfall/ waves sound to help sleeping.



Now I have this weird image in my head that you guys sleep with ski helmets on


----------



## Sebulr

chevybit said:


> How does Poweramp work with streaming players? I'd like to use the native Spotify and Tidal apps on my Android phone, and not another player's UI.


It doesn't, its local files only. For streaming apps I use bass eq Pro.


----------



## assassin10000

chevybit said:


> Hi, I'm interested in finding some good TWS with EQ options (without rooting phone). What TWS earphones provide such apps?
> 
> I've used the Samsung Buds, Shanling MWT100 (DD), QCY T5, SSK BT03, and many other. One thing I miss is some custom EQ. Buds had few presets, but it was not enough.



The Liberty 2 Pro does. Saves the EQ to the earpieces too I think.

Not sure about the rest of the Anker / Soundcore line. I'd email them or check reviews.


----------



## howdy

Anyone with Tidal and a Android phone can stream through UAPP and eq all your songs. I only use UAPP when streaming Tidal as it does a better job shuffling my song then Tidal. I have never used the EQ on there but have looked at it as it has parametric eq.


----------



## webvan

So I tried the new "pro" presets in the updated Soundcore app and...well some are really horrible, it's hard to believe anyone would want their name associated with that, especially the "Cole M.G.N." with its the bass completely blown out ! I still find the "Signature" one the best apart from the "Hear ID" (even though like others I'm not sure I'm doing the test well since I never stop hearing sound, except on the very last part).


----------



## willyk

Caipirina said:


> I think I know exactly what you mean. Feels like old day tape player trying to catch up? (Or organ grinder, for the really old folks here  ) I had that on rather rare occasions, but I agree that this might be a BT thing.
> Btw, what cadence are you aiming for and what music you found? There was a good podcast motion traxx or something, they still have some old episodes online with 180BPM which are fun for steady cadence training. Usually I only find very aggressive techno in that bpm.



Good feedback, thanks.  It's gotta be BT information being lost when the connection gets bad.  Really irritating to have to listen to.

Regarding music to regulate running cadence, I have shin splints and my PT says that I need to maintain 180 bpm to avoid heel strikes.  Works great.

The first thing I did to create a 180bpm library of songs was to look up what songs have that bpm.  Problem is, I don't like many of those songs, and many of them are not 180bpm.  So I grabbed what I could listen to and edited them to be 180bpm +/- nothing - dead on.  Then I randomly browsed through my digital music collection to find songs that I like to run to that are within 5bpm or so of 180 or 90bpm.  Then I edited those to be exactly 180bpm.  Takes time, but it's worth it.


----------



## Caipirina

willyk said:


> Good feedback, thanks.  It's gotta be BT information being lost when the connection gets bad.  Really irritating to have to listen to.
> 
> Regarding music to regulate running cadence, I have shin splints and my PT says that I need to maintain 180 bpm to avoid heel strikes.  Works great.
> 
> The first thing I did to create a 180bpm library of songs was to look up what songs have that bpm.  Problem is, I don't like many of those songs, and many of them are not 180bpm.  So I grabbed what I could listen to and edited them to be 180bpm +/- nothing - dead on.  Then I randomly browsed through my digital music collection to find songs that I like to run to that are within 5bpm or so of 180 or 90bpm.  Then I edited those to be exactly 180bpm.  Takes time, but it's worth it.


if you ever release a megamix of that (mixcloud, maybe) let me know. Always looking for good 180bpm music. btw, slower jams at 90bpm also work


----------



## willyk

Yup


Caipirina said:


> if you ever release a megamix of that (mixcloud, maybe) let me know. Always looking for good 180bpm music. btw, slower jams at 90bpm also work



Yup - I look for good tunes that are either 180 or 90 bpm.  Both work.


----------



## kelter (Mar 21, 2020)

Did anyone compare TRN200 and MTW100 BA? I thinking take something comparable to MTW or better. I dont like large headphone cases or airpods pro-like, MTW100 ergonomics is perfect for me. Besides mifo o7 there are applicants?

MTW100BA is very good, but I want something more or the same, but with a little more bass and scene. I thinking about TRN200, they is hybrid, its mean more bass, but im interesting what about details and sound accuracy, will be sibilants on hard music or not. For that price they must be worse in this sense, but maybe...

I took 20$ coupon from anker ali store plus 25$ from 100$, i can buy liberty 2 pro for 85$ on 03.27. But they can be from first batch with noise problem at idle, i dont want it, if i not be sure. Any advice?


----------



## bronco1015

harpdoc said:


> When i had Galaxy Buds+, my LG V50 defaulted to AAC, which sounded a little better than SBC (but not good enough to keep them). With my Master & Dynamics, it defaults to aptX. With an old cheap pair that claimed to have aptX, it defaults to SBC. I suspect that this is because, even though they advertised as having aptX, they really don't. YMMV


Have no idea why LG phones use AAC so much, but i have had similar experiences to yours not only with the v40, but the v30 as well. But bottom line is, while codecs aren't always implemented the same by each OEM, E.G. APTX isn't going to be the same on the Bomaker SiFi as it is on the MW07, if a TWE, BT dev of any kind only has SBC, or only AAC, if you change the codec in dev options, then absolutely nothing happens. That i knew before i tried my experiment, but prior to testing this out, i didn't know whether or not the phone would stay in APTX in this case, or if would default back to AAC. also, if i've switched to aptx using the Senn MTW, then pull out the Anbes359, then the codec switches to SBC. because that's the only codec the anbes359 has. i think some of the similarly styled products E.G. the SSKBT03 may have other codecs, and maybe other varriants of the anbes 359 have different codecs. But i have the original with track navigation and volume control. i mention that because of all the variations made off this model.


----------



## BigZ12

I'm on the fence... waiting for some reviews in here. (have I mention that I also hate NFMI?  ) 



https://www.complyfoam.com/products/comply-foam-tips-compatible-with-airpods-pro/
I can't wait!


----------



## IEManiac

webvan said:


> So I tried the new "pro" presets in the updated Soundcore app and...well some are really horrible, it's hard to believe anyone would want their name associated with that, especially the "Cole M.G.N." with its the bass completely blown out ! I still find the "Signature" one the best apart from the "Hear ID" (even though like others I'm not sure I'm doing the test well since I never stop hearing sound, except on the very last part).


They should stop messing around and just offer a good parametric EQ and be done with it. Their stock EQs range from bad to barely tolerable.


----------



## IEManiac (Mar 21, 2020)

bronco1015 said:


> Have no idea why LG phones use AAC so much, but i have had similar experiences to yours not only with the v40, but the v30 as well. But bottom line is, while codecs aren't always implemented the same by each OEM, E.G. APTX isn't going to be the same on the Bomaker SiFi as it is on the MW07, if a TWE, BT dev of any kind only has SBC, or only AAC, if you change the codec in dev options, then absolutely nothing happens. That i knew before i tried my experiment, but prior to testing this out, i didn't know whether or not the phone would stay in APTX in this case, or if would default back to AAC. also, if i've switched to aptx using the Senn MTW, then pull out the Anbes359, then the codec switches to SBC. because that's the only codec the anbes359 has. i think some of the similarly styled products E.G. the SSKBT03 may have other codecs, and maybe other varriants of the anbes 359 have different codecs. But i have the original with track navigation and volume control. i mention that because of all the variations made off this model.


The beauty of AptX is that it is AptX across devices. You know what your are getting. SBC can vary in quality according to implementation so you never quite know what you'll be getting.


----------



## bronco1015

Still catching up on the thread, but no mention of them for the last several pages. Has anyone used the LG ToneFree HBS-FL7? The one with the UV cleaning in the case? i'm curious about them and Amazon has them for $156.


----------



## Caipirina

bronco1015 said:


> Still catching up on the thread, but no mention of them for the last several pages. Has anyone used the LG ToneFree HBS-FL7? The one with the UV cleaning in the case? i'm curious about them and Amazon has them for $156.



Never even heard of these before (one review says they came out in Korea in 2019) ... what the heck does 'by Meridian' mean? And I have seen that UV claim before on cheap buds on AliExpress, not sure how tested / proven that is. 
I like that they seem to be semi-open / earbud style, but that also seems to be the reason for many unhappy reviewers. 
I don't see anything though that would make me want to pay 150$ ... no BA, no ANC, no AptX ...


----------



## webvan

BigZ12 said:


> I'm on the fence... waiting for some reviews in here. (have I mention that I also hate NFMI?  )
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Another lukewarm review, "lukewarm -" in fact, especially when you know how Jim "smoothens" things up.


----------



## Firevortex

Caipirina said:


> Wait what? Which Mifo has AptX?
> I tried those isntructions for the hidden ambient mode once and all I got was the 2 buds not recognizing each other anymore (Mifo 05) ... took me forever to get them back to normal, so I stopped trying that ... but aptx? That would be awesome! Not sure though how to test that ...
> 
> Edit: No, the Mifo 05 do NOT have 'hidden' AptX. Just tested this with my TempoTec V1A player ... from experience, when I have a non AptX set connected and then force AptX on the player, the player restarts, that's what just now happened twice with the Mifo 05, so, maybe clone of 07
> ...



Mifo O5 Plus has  AptX and hear through. All export models now will be the Plus model with QR code for authenticity check. There are too many fake ones going around in china.  mifo.hk is their official site. other sites that claims to be official are ran by a distributor. just check trustpilot to see how dodgy this distributor is.


----------



## musicfreak

Caipirina said:


> Never even heard of these before (one review says they came out in Korea in 2019) ... what the heck does 'by Meridian' mean?


They have a partnership, see https://www.meridian-audio.com/about-meridian/meridian-partnerships/lg-audio/. There have been soundbars and bluetooth speakers with Meredian technology or tuning.


----------



## bronco1015

WesennTony said:


> I've also struggled with my LG V30 and V50 for the default AAC until I found a solution online:
> 
> 1. Change the codec to aptX in development version
> 2. Rename the TWS device, by adding "_NOAAC"  (no quotation) at the end of the name.
> ...


hey. Thanks so much for sharing this. i did this for the MTW, SiFi, Tranya B530 pro, Nuarl N6 pro and  Spunky beats, in both those cases since they aren't labeled l&R, i was worried the phone might give me some error saying '_TRONSMART SPUNKYBEAT_NOAAC" already exists or something like that, but it didn't. But now goes to aptx whether i have 1 or both of any of those paired since labeled the L&R. Wish that were an option for the Sennheisers, but oh well. Rambly post over. thanks again!


----------



## Luchyres

BigZ12 said:


> I'm on the fence... waiting for some reviews in here. (have I mention that I also hate NFMI?  )
> 
> 
> 
> ...




I also hate nfmi, and call me crazy, I feel I could "hear" the nfmi in the MTW v1. 

:/ I want to like the MTW2 but....


----------



## BigZ12

Luchyres said:


> I also hate nfmi, and call me crazy, I feel I could "hear" the nfmi in the MTW v1.
> 
> :/ I want to like the MTW2 but....


You don't just feel it.
Listen to the Online Tone Generator (https://www.szynalski.com/tone-generator/) and you hear the high pitched "metallic noise" on low frequencies. (in the left bud)


----------



## bronco1015

IEManiac said:


> The beauty of AptX is that it is AptX across devices. You know what your are getting. SBC can vary in quality according to implementation so you never quite know what you'll be getting.


 Do you have an article to site by chance? i ask because i wouldn't be surprised if in theory it's supposed to be that way, E.g. qualcom's modems are capable of way faster speeds than what you see with  any telecom, but at least part of that has to do with test environments vs real time traffic on a network etc.


----------



## Caipirina

Firevortex said:


> Mifo O5 Plus has  AptX and hear through. All export models now will be the Plus model with QR code for authenticity check. There are too many fake ones going around in china.  mifo.hk is their official site. other sites that claims to be official are ran by a distributor. just check trustpilot to see how dodgy this distributor is.



Thanks for clearing that up. Back in the day when I decided on the mifo 05 I was already plenty undecided / confused between standard and pro (balanced armature) version ... now they added a 'plus' ...   that mifo.hk link does not work for me ... but I checked the amazon listing and somehow there is no mention of balanced armature anymore, while my old shop on AE says the plus (actually they say 'puls') version has BA (but they do not list them as available) ... 

anyhoo ... I am happy with my Mifos and now I know why I have neither AptX on them nor ambient mode.


----------



## VZWDJ

Which are better overall... Mifo o5plus or the Mifo o7?


----------



## nihontoman

got a pair of QCY T5. they seem quite ok, but to me they sound a tad bit bass heavy. on the other hand they respond VERY well to equalising and sound wonderful to me when equalised. 

there is one problem though - on pc, the volume is very low, even on max setting


----------



## musicfreak

bronco1015 said:


> Do you have an article to site by chance?


 I'm not @IEManiac  but this article is very detailed about bluetooth codecs and how SBC quality can vary between manufacturers: https://habr.com/en/post/456182/


----------



## McCol

Received both the Cambtidge Audio Melomenia M1 and the Mifo 07 in the last few days. 
M1 were £100
MIFO = £150

The Mifo's are being returned to Amazon.

To my ears they are not in the same league as the M1. They lack bass and the treble response is tinny with little depth or detail compared to the M1.
I tried different tips but sounded even worse.


----------



## hifi80sman

McCol said:


> Received both the Cambtidge Audio Melomenia M1 and the Mifo 07 in the last few days.
> M1 were £100
> MIFO = £150
> 
> ...


Would you describe the bass on the Cambridge Audio Melomania M1 to be deep, textured, and otherwise full?  How's the stability with no earhooks?  Looking for another pair for workouts.


----------



## SilverEars (Mar 22, 2020)

BigZ12 said:


> I'm on the fence... waiting for some reviews in here. (have I mention that I also hate NFMI?  )
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I wonder if this dude talks like this in real life? lol I find it hilarious the  Zoolander faces he makes for his camera shots. lol Mic quality seems to be sucking.  As for SQ, I could care less for Youtube revier's opinions. I'll look at measurements. Too bulky.  Size is important (that's what she said).


----------



## McCol

hifi80sman said:


> Would you describe the bass on the Cambridge Audio Melomania M1 to be deep, textured, and otherwise full?  How's the stability with no earhooks?  Looking for another pair for workouts.



Compared to the 07 they were far more detailed and textured across the whole spectrum.  I'm having no issues with fit, I thought they would slide out but they don't. 
I'm really impressed with them at the price point, sound leaps ahead of the 07 for a fraction of the price.


----------



## vaaccess

TheLionelHutz said:


> Anyone with the Mifo O2 able to comment on the call quality?


I hadn't even heard of the O2...Had to look that up on their site, interesting!




McCol said:


> Received both the Cambtidge Audio Melomenia M1 and the Mifo 07 in the last few days.
> M1 were £100
> MIFO = £150
> 
> ...



I find audio and IEM/TWS especially so frustrating!  Not only because of all the variances in sources driving the audio and in people's different hearing experiences, but moreso that there can be counterfeits or manufacturer changes that we aren't aware of!  That said, I respect your own experience and am curious of two things:  1) Whom on Amazon was the reseller, and 2) If you haven't sent them back yet, can you tell me if they have the same markings as mine?  Another user and I are having exceptional experiences with our Mifo O7 and there's a part of me that thinks I might have gotten lucky and gotten a "real" pair...





I'm saying all this, because, if the M1s are truly that much better than what I'm listening to right now, then holy crap I want to try them!!!


PS:  I can't find the post of the person looking for the "real" website for Mifo, but I believe this is the full URL: http://www.mifo.hk/en


----------



## McCol

@vaaccess 
Barcode on back of box is different however case is identical.

Bought form Mifo Direct UK through Amazon which upon reading may or may not be fakes.  Thankfully I'll get full refund through Amazon.

I understand your point about people's hearing which is why I stated 'to my ears'.  My source is S20 Ultra which has no issues with the Melomenia or Audeze I3 bluetooth cable.

I gave them a bit longer however they just sound really poor to me, no presence or detail.

Could be faulty or fake but it's enough to put me off them.

The M1's are stunning in comparison.


----------



## McCol

@vaaccess 

Just as an aside are your nozzles red on the end?


----------



## ryanjsoo

Been lurking on this thread for a while as TWS is a technology that really interests me. I've both reviewed and bought quite a few sets in the pursuit of a decently balanced sound and connectivity that, at least, doesn't get in the way. We're getting closer and the new generation is certainly a big improvement over the first wave we saw last year but we still have a ways to go. 

With that said, here are some of my recent TWS reviews of models less discussed. The first is of the Master & Dynamic MW07 Plus, a premium offering that competes with the Airpods Pro, MTW, Sony WF-1000XM3. These have mostly been featured on tech reviews sites, but contrary to their reviews, my units both sound and measure very differently from the original MW07, for the better. It is one of the most comprehensive options on the market, a jack of all trades so to speak with 10hr battery life, ANC, IPX5 water resistance and a fin stabilised fit. Their beryllium drivers also pump out a strong sound, with great bass extension, and a U-shaped signature. They are fairly linear in their transitions and slightly bright within the midrange but nowhere near as wonky as the original and most V-shaped consumer TWS earphones out there. Review is up on Everyday Listening and THL. 





I've also reviewed the new Advanced Sound M5 TWS on Everday Listening. What's interesting about this earbud is that it features a Harman-target tuning. To my ear, it has a more forward upper-midrange which can make it sound a bit intense and shouty at times, however, it has the best resolution of any TWS earphone I've tested. The driver quality is very good, offering defined, controlled bass and strong detail retrieval. It also has an intriguing faux-custom design similar to wired IEMs but since it lacks stabilisers, I found the fit slightly less stable than class-leaders. It features the QC3020 chipset alongside 9-hr battery life and IPX5 water resistance. The sliding case is delightfully satisfying to use too lol  



 

Hope these reviews fill in some blanks here, happy listening and stay safe


----------



## vaaccess

McCol said:


> @vaaccess
> Barcode on back of box is different however case is identical.
> 
> Bought form Mifo Direct UK through Amazon which upon reading may or may not be fakes.  Thankfully I'll get full refund through Amazon.
> ...



oh, I didn’t mean to imply you weren’t hearing correctly!  In this case I’d say they are either fakes or manufacturing defects or something. When I compar my Mifos to my Klipsch X11s, I think the Mifos are better.  Though maybe some would argue that’s a bad comparison. Though perhaps a more stable comparison at least. LOL
Mine cane from Amazon US via seller “YY Morul”. No clue how legit that is. 



McCol said:


> @vaaccess
> 
> Just as an aside are your nozzles red on the end?



They are, interesting question. I hadn’t considered that being another indicator...


----------



## Ultrainferno

QBANIN said:


> I'm looking for KINERA YH623 review. Anyone?



Yes sir!
https://www.headfonia.com/kinera-yh623-review/


----------



## tendou

What's the best low budget tws right now? Still spunky beats? Or there are other contender around that price?


----------



## tgx78

Personally i like haylou gt1 plus more than spunky beat


----------



## Firevortex (Mar 23, 2020)

McCol said:


> @vaaccess
> Barcode on back of box is different however case is identical.
> 
> Bought form Mifo Direct UK through Amazon which upon reading may or may not be fakes.  Thankfully I'll get full refund through Amazon.



if you got them from the link here https://mifo.co.uk/ they are real. according to Mifo there is no O7 counterfeits just the old O5s.

buy them from amazon since the mob that runs those mifo sites above is pretty dodgy with after sales service https://au.trustpilot.com/review/mifo.co.uk


On another note, look what dropped in today! 
i was able to find a local stockist in AU, thanks for the recommendations guys. they are as good as you say.
initial listening are i enjoy them more than the sennheiser on heavy vocal tracks. vocals are forward, sound stage are wide and layered with back ground instruments sparking.  bass is a little recessed which requires EQ but it doesn't go as deep and impactful as the sennheisers.


----------



## Caipirina

SilverEars said:


> I wonder if this dude talks like this in real life? lol I find it hilarious the  Zoolander faces he makes for his camera shots. lol Mic quality seems to be sucking.  As for SQ, I could care less for Youtube revier's opinions. I'll look at measurements. Too bulky.  Size is important (that's what she said).


Zoolander!!! finally! I was always wondering who he reminded me off!!! Riddle solved!!


----------



## Caipirina

vaaccess said:


> PS:  I can't find the post of the person looking for the "real" website for Mifo, but I believe this is the full URL: http://www.mifo.hk/en



That was me ... and still, nope ... neither Safari nor Chrome ...  but then again, things are bonkers right now anyways ... curfew day 3 ... i am going a bit stir crazy


----------



## mikp

since im in lockdown, i took a look at the audeqs.com the 1 poster guy here mentioned.

They are supposed to be from brooklyn.

audeqs.com and magnifitechsolutions.com  seems to be the same thing, both registered:


```
audeqs
Admin Name: Vivek Pokhriyal
Admin Organization:
Admin Street: I-1 Academy of administration
Admin Street: 1100 Quarters
Admin City: bhopal
Admin State/Province: Madhya Pradesh
Admin Postal Code: 462016
Admin Country: IN
Admin Phone: +91.11010509
Admin Phone Ext:
Admin Fax:
Admin Fax Ext:
Admin Email: itsvivek101@gmail.com 

magnifitechsolutions
Registrant Name: nadeem farooqui
Registrant Organization: technoresearch
Registrant Street: 8 sunrise colony idgah hills
Registrant City: bhopal
Registrant State/Province: Madhya Pradesh
Registrant Postal Code: 462001
Registrant Country: IN
Registrant Phone: +91.9977791838
Registrant Phone Ext:
Registrant Fax:
Registrant Fax Ext:
Registrant Email: go_naddy@yahoo.co.in
```

On the net they have business adress in  brooklyn 

then theres 
https://www.affiliatefix.com/threads/looking-for-affiliate-marketers-for-product.162824/


----------



## McCol

@vaaccess 
@Firevortex 

I've had an email back from Mifo and they genuine 07's.  Suggestion is that they maybe don't suit my taste and they are hoping in future to improve bass response.

In all fairness they are a nice product and well made but again to my ears they don't justify the price.


----------



## C_Lindbergh

These arrived more than a week early! I've just unpacked them, good news is that symbio tips works


----------



## vaaccess

McCol said:


> @vaaccess
> @Firevortex
> 
> I've had an email back from Mifo and they genuine 07's.  Suggestion is that they maybe don't suit my taste and they are hoping in future to improve bass response.
> ...



i got a similar email from them. They claim that counterfeits and manufacturing defects don’t exist anymore, LOL, but I can’t believe the polarity of some of our experiences.

And to be clear I’m not trying to say that the Mifo O7 is the end all be all of TWS, it certainly isn’t. Like so many things, I just want the best experience for my money whether it’s wine, bourbon, popcorn, etc, etc, etc.  I’m trying to educate myself so when an affordable TWS with ANC and Ambient Mode that sounds amazing comes out, I can jump on it with confidence.


----------



## cresny

C_Lindbergh said:


> These arrived more than a week early! I've just unpacked them, good news is that symbio tips works


Looking forward to your impressions! I also pre-ordered, but I'm a little spooked by the above posted JimsListeningRoom review, hoping it's a subjective outlier.


----------



## C_Lindbergh

These arrived more than a week early 


cresny said:


> Looking forward to your impressions! I also pre-ordered, but I'm a little spooked by the above posted JimsListeningRoom review, hoping it's a subjective outlier.



All the other reviews I've read/watched was really positive, so im not too worried. 

I got an update straight away during setup, said it would take around 20 min... It's finished just now after ca 40 min, so now i'll have my first listen


----------



## Sam L

ryanjsoo said:


> Been lurking on this thread for a while as TWS is a technology that really interests me. I've both reviewed and bought quite a few sets in the pursuit of a decently balanced sound and connectivity that, at least, doesn't get in the way. We're getting closer and the new generation is certainly a big improvement over the first wave we saw last year but we still have a ways to go.
> 
> With that said, here are some of my recent TWS reviews of models less discussed. The first is of the Master & Dynamic MW07 Plus, a premium offering that competes with the Airpods Pro, MTW, Sony WF-1000XM3. These have mostly been featured on tech reviews sites, but contrary to their reviews, my units both sound and measure very differently from the original MW07, for the better. It is one of the most comprehensive options on the market, a jack of all trades so to speak with 10hr battery life, ANC, IPX5 water resistance and a fin stabilised fit. Their beryllium drivers also pump out a strong sound, with great bass extension, and a U-shaped signature. They are fairly linear in their transitions and slightly bright within the midrange but nowhere near as wonky as the original and most V-shaped consumer TWS earphones out there. Review is up on Everyday Listening and THL.
> 
> ...



Thank you for the info on the M5's! I am a big, big fan of the Harman target.


----------



## Caipirina

Always on the lookout for new shape / design concepts, I stumbled across this ‘weird’ tws contraption (left) and it took me a while to realize that I had seen it before, and one google reverse image search later I confirm that I had seen the Sony Xperia Duo on my last trip to Japan (which now seems like a lifetime ago)... and now I am wondering again ‘does this fit work? Comfortably?’  As an upside down ear hook, does it not fall out / down?
has anyone here tested this unique style?


----------



## BigZ12

C_Lindbergh said:


> These arrived more than a week early! I've just unpacked them, good news is that symbio tips works


Could you test the Szynalski online tone generator? With AAC/AptX source, and see if you hear the SBC "noise"?
Low frequencies (20-120hz for ex.), and check for a metallic fairly high pitch noise/distortion in the left bud.
https://www.szynalski.com/tone-generator/

I remember I also found the Symbio tips to be the best on the first version (before I returned them because of the NFMI/SBC noise and crackle noise on the right :O )


----------



## Sam L

TheLionelHutz said:


> Anyone with the Mifo O2 able to comment on the call quality?


Call quality is pretty poor on the Mifo O2.


----------



## clerkpalmer

C_Lindbergh said:


> These arrived more than a week early! I've just unpacked them, good news is that symbio tips works


Cool  I preordered. Did you order for Senn directly or elsewhere?


----------



## bronco1015

musicfreak said:


> I'm not @IEManiac  but this article is very detailed about bluetooth codecs and how SBC quality can vary between manufacturers: https://habr.com/en/post/456182/


Thanks for sharing. I know SBC can varry, i should have specificly asked about APTX because i thought it varried as well.


----------



## C_Lindbergh

BigZ12 said:


> Could you test the Szynalski online tone generator? With AAC/AptX source, and see if you hear the SBC "noise"?
> Low frequencies (20-120hz for ex.), and check for a metallic fairly high pitch noise/distortion in the left bud.
> https://www.szynalski.com/tone-generator/
> 
> I remember I also found the Symbio tips to be the best on the first version (before I returned them because of the NFMI/SBC noise and crackle noise on the right :O )



Hmm will do once i get some time on my hands 



clerkpalmer said:


> Cool  I preordered. Did you order for Senn directly or elsewhere?



Ordered from a store in my country of Sweden, prob best to not say which


----------



## bronco1015

clerkpalmer said:


> Cool  I preordered. Did you order for Senn directly or elsewhere?


i hate my self...i just preordered as well. said i wasn't going to pick these up right away. Famous last words haha. but hey. I've recently sold or bartered 4 pair so that's something haha. To bad they don't collectively equal the retail of the Senns though.


----------



## howdy (Mar 23, 2020)

You know, some of you with the 20 to 40 different TWS, I don't know how you decide what to listen to. I have 6 and I kept grabbing one then decided on a different and a did this like 2 more times. But ended up settling on the MTW and Power beats pro for today's listening.
With the pending quarantine I may get some more listening time


----------



## chinmie

howdy said:


> You know, some of you with the 20 to 40 different TWS, I don't know how you decide what to listen to. I have 6 and I kept grabbing one then decided on a different and a did this like 2 more times. But ended up settling on the MTW and Power beats pro for today's listening.
> With the pending quarantine I may get some more listening time



i have 13 currently (not counting several BT20S combos) , and this past couple of months i mostly only use 4 of them frequently. i also assigned 2 to my wife and son, so there's about 7 units that haven't been touched and given some love for quite a while.. 

time to check their batteries


----------



## 13gsc13

What’s the best 2 pin Bluetooth adapter I can use with my iem?


----------



## jasonb

1 TWS is enough for me. I recently got the Lypertek Tevi, and I sold my original Galaxy Buds to a co-worker for $40 a couple days ago since they've just been sitting around. They aren't worth much anymore, but I don't plan to ever use them again so I might as well let them go to someone that will use them. 

Anyway, I've been enjoying the Tevi quite a bit.


----------



## CocaCola15

McCol said:


> Received both the Cambtidge Audio Melomenia M1 and the Mifo 07 in the last few days.
> M1 were £100
> MIFO = £150
> 
> ...


I wish more people would give the M1s a fair shot. No need for any wings, they stay in place. To me, They just sound fantastic and I’ve had several of the TOTL TW phones, at a higher price. Caveat: foams to me are the better option and the OEM ones are cleansble.


----------



## chinmie

Anyone wants to try copy of XM3 for cheap? 
https://a.aliexpress.com/_d7n6Co4

It uses Airoha chipset and has true ANC. I'm curious on how it fares to the original in sound and ANC quality


----------



## bronco1015

howdy said:


> You know, some of you with the 20 to 40 different TWS, I don't know how you decide what to listen to. I have 6 and I kept grabbing one then decided on a different and a did this like 2 more times. But ended up settling on the MTW and Power beats pro for today's listening.
> With the pending quarantine I may get some more listening time


I have used the MTWs for 99% of the last month plus. My Anbes 359, spunkybeat and nuarls have basicly sat there. But i usually do something similar. E.g. if i leave for the weekend etc, i'll usually take 2 pair with me or going to work 1 twe and my qc35 or 2 twes.


----------



## tendou

tgx78 said:


> Personally i like haylou gt1 plus more than spunky beat





Can you describe some comparison between them? I already have haylou gt1 non plus version.


----------



## hifi80sman

Caipirina said:


> That was me ... and still, nope ... neither Safari nor Chrome ...  but then again, things are bonkers right now anyways ... curfew day 3 ... i am going a bit stir crazy


You can’t even go for a run?


----------



## tgx78

tendou said:


> Can you describe some comparison between them? I already have haylou gt1 non plus version.



I gave away my spunky beats so this is from my memory but gt1 plus had less peaky highs and mids were not as recessed. They were not far off but I felt gt1 plus sounded more balanced and had slightly better timbre. Spunky beats bass was more rounded but gt1 plus had more texture and pace to the bass which i prefer (quality over quantity).
Also Spunky beats touch control was annoyingly sensitive whereas gt1 plus is tolerable.


----------



## McCol

CocaCola15 said:


> I wish more people would give the M1s a fair shot. No need for any wings, they stay in place. To me, They just sound fantastic and I’ve had several of the TOTL TW phones, at a higher price. Caveat: foams to me are the better option and the OEM ones are cleansble.


My experience to wireless is limited to cable bluetooth options however the M1 are nothing short of outstanding for the price.  I've not tried the foams yet but will do so.


----------



## Caipirina (Mar 24, 2020)

hifi80sman said:


> You can’t even go for a run?


Funny you should mention that .. well. .. here the curfew rules are easy ... not this European crap of 'max 2 ppl and not further than 1km from your home and only 1h' ... here it means 'stay home'!!! And that was going on for 84h and then today they gave us a 6h window for shopping, but as expected, that was UTTER CHAOS! Even with some suggested rules. So, now we are back in plague prison and the 'promised' next break on Friday morning has been cancelled for now, because it went all so bad today.
But sure enough, by 6AM I was out running    (PM me if you want to follow me on Strava)

But to give this a bit of a TWS flavor, I have very divided feelings about the upcoming AE sale. I have already lined up what I might want, and got all the coupons and played all the games ... but there is no postal service right now here, it all feels so insignificant in the bigger picture ...
Then again, I need SOMETHING to look forward to, even if it is just the hope of some AE parcels arriving again some day ...
Until then ... music from the few TWS I have shall help ...

Hope everyone here stays safe, healthy and somewhat sane


----------



## Caipirina

chinmie said:


> Anyone wants to try copy of XM3 for cheap?
> https://a.aliexpress.com/_d7n6Co4
> 
> It uses Airoha chipset and has true ANC. I'm curious on how it fares to the original in sound and ANC quality



color me curious ..


----------



## gdv brisbane

My daughter has commandeered my SSKs in order to survive quarantine here in the UK and so I need to order myself a backup. Scarbir.com (Hi Bartig) rates the SoundPEATS Truedots very highly but will they be a let down after the SSK BT03? Any others that I should be considering (will need to be from Amazon given the AE wait times at the moment)?


----------



## BigZ12

C_Lindbergh said:


> Hmm will do once i get some time on my hands


Any news? Would be great to hear if you experience this NFMI/SBC distortion, before I eventually put in an order.
What about the buds in general? Are you happy with them? Sound, ANC, transparency mode etc?


----------



## ryanjsoo

Sam L said:


> Thank you for the info on the M5's! I am a big, big fan of the Harman target.



Cheers Sam! About to update the post with comparisons to the Galaxy Buds as I was just able to source a pair, I'll put that comparison here too alongside measurements.


----------



## ryanjsoo

As promised, here's a quick comparison between the Galaxy Buds (not the plus) and the M5 TWS, it has also been added to my full review.

A $50 premium brings superior technical ability and build quality. Both are voiced similarly as both target the Harman curve. That said, the Galaxy buds traces this more accurately with a slightly warmer voicing whereas the M5 TWS is slightly brighter and crisper. The M5 TWS has better sub-bass extension with more slam though it has less bass overall with the Galaxy buds being fuller and warmer. The M5 TWS is noticeably tighter with quicker decay and a cleaner mid-bass, creating a more defined and detailed but also leaner presentation; where I find the Galaxy Buds a bit sloppy and ill-defined. The M5 TWS has a brighter and more upfront midrange where the Galaxy buds are more even between bass and midrange with more body. Both are actually very similarly tuned through the midrange, but as the M5 TWS has less bass, it sounds brighter. As the M5 has slightly bolstered lower-midrange body it doesn’t explicitly sound thin but is certainly thinner than the Galaxy Buds and with a more neutral tone as opposed to a light warmth. The high-end is where the M5 TWS differs most. It has a crisper and more aggressive lower-treble. In so doing, it sacrifices a touch of instrument body and smoothness. However, the M5 TWS is noticeably more detailed and extended with a lot more air and headroom. It has a substantially wider soundstage and better separation, imaging also seems sharper to me. 

I also struggled to measure the M5 TWS. I have some rough graphs but, for whatever reason, it measures wildly different each time which I do not hear in listening. ADV. also don't mention tuning with DSP either so I'm not sure what's going on there...


----------



## Windmolinos

Hi guys.
Sorry for the dummy question.
Could you please recommend some Wireless IEMs sold by Amazon? (30$/80$)
Thanks a lot in advance


----------



## GeeD

So 1More have released FW 0.03.44

Well I have no idea WTH is going on here or with these folks that said there was a change in sound signature when ANC was switched on.

I upgraded and have now gone from not knowing what the fuss was all about to these are now bloody awful in ANC mode ...really tinny and no depth to the sound stage !!

ok ...how do I downgrade back to .31


----------



## go0gle

Windmolinos said:


> Hi guys.
> Sorry for the dummy question.
> Could you please recommend some Wireless IEMs sold by Amazon? (30$/80$)
> Thanks a lot in advance



https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07RW44S7Y/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_pL1EEb7VGKV6

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07YBYN3P9/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_qM1EEbK42TSMZ

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B082G2RKSV/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_0M1EEbAS4KEW5


----------



## gibletzor

Looks like Tranya it's having a 50% off sale on certain TWS models.  If you wanted to try out the Rimor or B530 now would be a good time.  Plus you get 20 free face masks if you order 2 or more!  lol  Corona fever has officially spread to the TWS market.


----------



## Caipirina

What's on everyone's wishlist / shopping card for the upcoming AE sale? 
Anyone spotted any big price differences from regular to sale price? 
i.e. the much lauded Alien Secret AptX will be down from 33$ to 26.59$  ... though I am still not convinced by the very generic looks  
I am still wrestling if I should get the Soundpeats TrueAir (brigther sound, bigger driver) or the Edifier TWS200 (darker sound, better call quality, which I totally don't care about  )  ... don't have any airpod style AptX buds in my collection yet ... 
and then there is that Sony XM3 ANC clone than @chinmie mentioned and dang .. no sales price (but could use a 7 off 50 coupon after adding a little something) .. but that looks somewhat interesting  

Share your finds!


----------



## Alphasoixante

Hey all!

Can someone recommend some great tips that go along with the Fiil T1x's? I really love the Final Audio E series tips (because they really bring out the bass and tame the treble a bit), but I can't get the buds to charge in the case with those tips on. I'm in the US and I'm in between living situations, so I need to be able to order them from Amazon (US). Thanks!


----------



## ricksome

Just received Jabra 75t .... Highly recommended


----------



## tgx78

whirlwind works well for me


----------



## nuggetbro

New Qualcomm tws chipset announced. Lower power AND supports hybrid anc. We will budget tws with long battery lives and anc. Great news. Watch out for the 3040 series.


----------



## jant71

nuggetbro said:


> New Qualcomm tws chipset announced. Lower power AND supports hybrid anc. We will budget tws with long battery lives and anc. Great news. Watch out for the 3040 series.



I wasn't buying anything new yet not till the new LC3 capable stuff and we can ditch SBC and AptX(will still be carried over but will be less efficient at the same bit rates). These are the chips that are LE capable so it does seem they are indeed on track for second half of 2020. Sounds like China is back on track so the products may still be on schedule as well. Yay!


----------



## TheLionelHutz

tgx78 said:


> whirlwind works well for me


Where do you get these?


----------



## jasonb

TheLionelHutz said:


> Where do you get these?


Amazon has them.

Do they sound the same as the spiral dots?


----------



## go0gle (Mar 25, 2020)

jant71 said:


> I wasn't buying anything new yet not till the new LC3 capable stuff and we can ditch SBC and AptX(will still be carried over but will be less efficient at the same bit rates). These are the chips that are LE capable so it does seem they are indeed on track for second half of 2020. Sounds like China is back on track so the products may still be on schedule as well. Yay!



*https://www.soundguys.com/le-audio-lc3-explained-28192/*

Very nice! But the QCC 3040 is still BT 5.0

And yes, I think that's what I would do as well. The LP2 is going to be perfectly fine until we get the new stuff


----------



## jant71 (Mar 25, 2020)

go0gle said:


> *https://www.soundguys.com/le-audio-lc3-explained-28192/*
> 
> Very nice! But the QCC 3040 is still BT 5.0



Not just the 3040 coming...


----------



## jasonb

I think APTx sounds fine, but improvements in Bluetooth codecs are always welcome.


----------



## RobinFood

Can anyone comment on the Sennheiser mtw2 if it is worth getting over the Sony wf-1000xm3?

They seem to have it all, but a lot of anc buds have fallen extremely short on noise cancelling compared to the Sony buds, and in the sound department too despite the lack of aptx.


----------



## jasonb (Mar 25, 2020)

RobinFood said:


> Can anyone comment on the Sennheiser mtw2 if it is worth getting over the Sony wf-1000xm3?
> 
> They seem to have it all, but a lot of anc buds have fallen extremely short on noise cancelling compared to the Sony buds, and in the sound department too despite the lack of aptx.



So far I think the only people that have them are tech reviewers that got a set from Sennheiser. Might be best to wait until actual consumers get their hands on them. That, or order from a place that is easy about returns and return them if you don't like them.

I'm kind of interested in them as well, but I'm gonna wait for some other people to get their hands on them. That, and they need to go on sale for like $250 before I'd consider them. Maybe there will be some early sales due to lack of sales because of the virus or something.


----------



## RobinFood

jasonb said:


> So far I think the only people that have them are tech reviewers that got a set from Sennheiser. Might be best to wait until actual consumers get their hands on them. That, or order from a place that is easy about returns and return them if you don't like them.
> 
> I'm kind of interested in them as well, but I'm gonna wait for some other people to get their hands on them. That, and they need to go on sale for like $250 before I'd consider them. Maybe there will be some early sales due to lack of sales because of the virus or something.



Ah, I thought some were getting early models on here.

It's true that it usually takes them a few months to work out the kinks and it really doesn't seem to be a good idea to grab the early models with true wireless buds.

I won't hold my breath for a sale given the first mtw is still almost the same price as launch.

I guess I will probably be reordering the wf-1000xm3, but this time I will avoid Amazon. 

Something about Amazon in this country is leading me to believe that they are getting b stock. I've had to return the last three audio products I bought from them due to defects, which wasn't a huge deal because of their return process, but they gave me a really hard time with my last return.

Even if it is a little more I will be getting it from a place with an offline store this time, and might get an extended warranty.


----------



## IEManiac

GeeD said:


> So 1More have released FW 0.03.44
> 
> Well I have no idea WTH is going on here or with these folks that said there was a change in sound signature when ANC was switched on.
> 
> ...


You bought into ANC. Now you are paying the price, literally and figuratively. Caveat Emptor.


----------



## Sam L

TheLionelHutz said:


> Where do you get these?


You can also get them on aliexpress. I picked up a bunch of them awhile back, in red and blue.


----------



## C_Lindbergh (Mar 25, 2020)

RobinFood said:


> Can anyone comment on the Sennheiser mtw2 if it is worth getting over the Sony wf-1000xm3?
> 
> They seem to have it all, but a lot of anc buds have fallen extremely short on noise cancelling compared to the Sony buds, and in the sound department too despite the lack of aptx.



I've had them since this Monday... To make it short, if you want the best sound quality that's available right now (at a premium price) then go for it.

They are far from perfect, id still want even better battery life, lower latency and multipoint connection. All of which looks to be fixed with Bluetooth 5.2.

But that's the nature of tech, especially in this new segment, there will always be something better if you wait x months/years.

I'll use these extensively the next 2 years, by then BT 5.2 devices, adapters and true wireless earphones should be widespread


----------



## Sam L

Alphasoixante said:


> Hey all!
> 
> Can someone recommend some great tips that go along with the Fiil T1x's? I really love the Final Audio E series tips (because they really bring out the bass and tame the treble a bit), but I can't get the buds to charge in the case with those tips on. I'm in the US and I'm in between living situations, so I need to be able to order them from Amazon (US). Thanks!


I use the tips tgx78 posted a couple posts down from yours.


----------



## RobinFood

C_Lindbergh said:


> I've had them since this Monday... To make it short, if you want the best sound quality that's available right now (at a premium price) then go for it.
> 
> They are far from perfect, id still want even better battery life, lower latency and multipoint connection. All of which looks to be fixed with Bluetooth 5.2.
> 
> ...



That sounds very promising!

Do you have the wf-1000xm3 to compare the sound and anc/ambient mode with?

How easy is it too eq to a diffuse field target or etymotics target?


----------



## C_Lindbergh

RobinFood said:


> That sounds very promising!
> 
> Do you have the wf-1000xm3 to compare the sound and anc/ambient mode with?
> 
> How easy is it too eq to a diffuse field target or etymotics target?



Na, I've never owned the XM3, 

To be honest the EQ is far from the best when it comes to set up, But the stock EQ setting sounds amazing to my ears as it is.


----------



## wksoh (Mar 26, 2020)

vaaccess said:


> Many posts ago, I was comparing between the 1Tx and the Mifo o7.  And, in my mind the Mifo was superior for many reasons.  But, the 1Tx I had was particularly hindered because of bad driver flex and I returned them and wrote an accurate review of both.
> 
> Fast-forward through emails and conversations with FiiL, I wanted to share my recent experiences.  FilL admitted that they had a production issue and had found a new supplier/manufacturer.  They asked me to re-review their 1Tx after sending me another pair.  I just PnP'd them and have some initial thoughts, but am holding out updating my initial review until I finish burning them in.
> 
> ...


Agreed, I find the T1X hollow in the mids and sibilant. Like you described U shaped.


----------



## mikp

C_Lindbergh said:


> Na, I've never owned the XM3,
> 
> To be honest the EQ is far from the best when it comes to set up, But the stock EQ setting sounds amazing to my ears as it is.



can ambient be used while playing?


----------



## C_Lindbergh

mikp said:


> can ambient be used while playing?



Yepp... But I was certain you could pre adjust how high the music would play in settings on the Gen 1. But the app is still in beta tho


----------



## GeeD

IEManiac said:


> You bought into ANC. Now you are paying the price, literally and figuratively. Caveat Emptor.



Yes, I've used it for a while??  I had no problem with price, I got these much less than list.  Mine worked very well and I was chuffed to bits, then they moved the goal posts and broke it ...caveat emptor really doesn't apply here.


----------



## mikp

C_Lindbergh said:


> Yepp... But I was certain you could pre adjust how high the music would play in settings on the Gen 1. But the app is still in beta tho



thanks, put a "prisjakt" on it,  not much use of new tws in current situation.


----------



## howdy

Anyone get a indiogogo for the JZ S2 for 29 bucks? I'm actually going to do this as it's so cheap why not. If I don't like them I just give them away.


----------



## nuggetbro

I have the E10 and the S1 and love them for all their flaws. 

The E10 is still one of the best sounding in my collection and breaks my heart that it just can't keep a stable connection. 

The S1 is fantastic. If it had slightly better mic and a lot longer battery life, then they would be my endgame. THey both sit in my ears so well as well. 

If the S2 can deliver the quality sound but offer some of the better tech and battery life, it should be a solid choice. 

Personally, i like the sound profile of the S2 over my Fiil t1x, Sabbat E12 ultra, and Mifo o7.


----------



## IEManiac

GeeD said:


> Yes, I've used it for a while??  I had no problem with price, I got these much less than list.  Mine worked very well and I was chuffed to bits, then they moved the goal posts and broke it ...caveat emptor really doesn't apply here.


The Caveat Emptor was not about these in particular but rather about ANC in general. You pay for it in price and in degraded SQ. On top of the degraded SQ of BT relative to wired. Years ago, Bose and Sony marketing told you, convinced you that ANC was essential. And people bought it, figuratively and literally.


----------



## Mixmasterjw

Any recommendations on earbuds that sounds good for rock music? I have the sabbat e12 now and alltough the bass is really good i feel like they aren't the best for rock which i mostly listen to


----------



## wksoh (Mar 27, 2020)

Mixmasterjw said:


> Any recommendations on earbuds that sounds good for rock music? I have the sabbat e12 now and alltough the bass is really good i feel like they aren't the best for rock which i mostly listen to


For me Rock, jazz and blues: JBL Free X, Mpow M5. Rich vocals, fat and ballsy guitar distortion. There is a $15 coupon for mpow M5 on Amazon right now.


----------



## TK33

C_Lindbergh said:


> Na, I've never owned the XM3,
> 
> To be honest the EQ is far from the best when it comes to set up, But the stock EQ setting sounds amazing to my ears as it is.



Based on your comments, it sounds like you have (or had) the first gen MTW. How would you describe the sound signature and SQ compared to the first gen? Wondering if these are worth the upgrade if I dont care about ANC.


----------



## GeeD

IEManiac said:


> The Caveat Emptor was not about these in particular but rather about ANC in general. You pay for it in price and in degraded SQ. On top of the degraded SQ of BT relative to wired. Years ago, Bose and Sony marketing told you, convinced you that ANC was essential. And people bought it, figuratively and literally.



Ah ok, I see what you are getting at.  Some people think or expect that "cancellation" means TOTAL cancellation as in silence, when sorry, but no, you don't get that on consumer electronics at this price.  ANR would probably be a more accurate acronym.

It's about frequencies microphone quality and positioning and processing speed of the chips.

But I knew that and for me, what we are offered definitely offers benefit, for when I need it.

...just they frelled my pair up on the last FW update  (they have suppressed too much bass that it sounds like the music is in a tin box) I did contact 1More but apparently, the only way to downgrade them is to return them to the factory


----------



## marcusd

I thought it would be good to review the original MOMENTUM True Wireless now that they have just announced the V2. Very good aptX LL on these. 

https://headfonics.com/2020/03/sennheiser-momentum-true-wireless-wireless-weekend/


----------



## Windmolinos

gibletzor said:


> Looks like Tranya it's having a 50% off sale on certain TWS models.  If you wanted to try out the Rimor or B530 now would be a good time.  Plus you get 20 free face masks if you order 2 or more!  lol  Corona fever has officially spread to the TWS market.



Do you know if the B530 has a micro for calls?
Thanks!


----------



## tma6

AuSounds Hybrid went back today. I really wanted to like them and honestly there were certain things about them that I loved. The feature set was also pretty solid given the price. I'll give a quick rundown of some Pros and Cons here:

Pros:
- High quality and very small case (one of the smallest I've used outside of AirPods), can fit in the small pocket of jeans.
- Low profile of buds, they look so good and they barely stick out. I loved the form factor of these and really commend AuSounds for trying to make everything as small as possible. TWS are supposed to be convenient and these really are.
- Solid microphone quality if nothing too loud is going on in the background.
- Pretty good touch controls.
- Decent battery life with ANC off (6.5 hours), though drains with ANC on (3.5-4 hours).
- Good feature set for $185 and also given how small they are. Has ANC and Ambient Listening modes. The ANC worked pretty decently on low frequencies and the Ambient worked when music volume was low. Nothing magical, but the features are there. 
- AAC Codec (no AptX).
- Solid sound quality: there were pros and cons with the sound quality but I'll say these overall had a well-done U shaped signature, pretty good detail retrieval, a tight punchy and accurate bass (my favorite part of the sound on these), and an above-average sound stage. The timbre is pretty good too with nothing sounding weird or tinny. Though has a pretty prominent bass, it's overall a pretty cold sounding earbud in the mids and highs. They really benefit from some mid-preference EQ. I'll get into the cons of the sound below.

Cons:
- Low battery life of case. I had to charge the case at least once every two days. Seemed like the case drained battery really quickly.
- No volume control.
- Microphone picks up loud background noises (unideal for NYC).
- When ANC or Ambient Mode are on, these pick up wind noise more noticeably than any ANC buds I've tried so far. It's so sensitive that if you're just moving around the house quickly you can sometimes notice it. Also, the ANC really only works for low frequencies and does almost nothing to mid-high frequencies. Another weird quirk is that sometimes if there is a loud sudden noise in Ambient Mode it will actually go out of Ambient Mode for a second before returning to it (don't really know how to explain this but its basically just like a momentary lapse in the mode that is sometimes jarring). 
- Comfort was decent for my ears, but definitely got fatiguing and fidgety over longer listening sessions.
- Connectivity problems. I had a bunch of little drops here and there that would only last for a half-second but were definitely noticeable, and happened at least once every time I used them. Did not connect well with my Windows laptop.
- No app support.
- Sound quality was good overall, but there is definitely a spike in the high-mids which can make it harsh on certain songs. They can also sound a bit empty, there is definitely a lack of warmth even though it has elevated bass. These really require EQ to get the best out of them - boost mids and bring down highs. Also, they just don't sound as good as my Nuarl N6 Pros so it was hard to justify keeping them.


Overall, these were a good effort by AuSounds and if they can improve on these issues I've laid out while maintaining the same form factor I think they'll have a winner on their hands. This is not quite a complete product right now but I really like the direction they're going.


----------



## TheLionelHutz

Windmolinos said:


> Do you know if the B530 has a micro for calls?
> Thanks!


Yes


----------



## Caipirina

Windmolinos said:


> Do you know if the B530 has a micro for calls?
> Thanks!



This question actually made me think ... are there ANY tws that do NOT have a built in phone function? 
I mean, how great would that be? 
Focus on music / audio .. .like IEMs, I always order without mic cable, if that is an option. 
I do NOT want any phone calls when I am listening to music (actually, I don't want any phone calls period!) 
No idea how much space that would safe to be used for ... more battery? better codecs?


----------



## hifi80sman (Mar 27, 2020)

I posted this in the DEALS section as well, but the original MW07 is going for $109.50 (all available colors).
https://www.amazon.com/Master-Dynamic-Earphones-Connectivity-Tortoiseshell/dp/B07H8S4N36/


----------



## go0gle

Now thats a good deal.


----------



## hifi80sman

go0gle said:


> Now thats a good deal.


I know!  I'm tempted to get the Piano Black!  Gah!

I actually just purchased a Camo pair of the MW60, which is going for $149.50 right now!  A few other colors are also $149.50.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B078C8NC1H/


----------



## webvan

C_Lindbergh said:


> I've had them since this Monday... To make it short, if you want the best sound quality that's available right now (at a premium price) then go for it.
> 
> They are far from perfect, id still want even better battery life, lower latency and multipoint connection. All of which looks to be fixed with Bluetooth 5.2.
> 
> ...


Any other TWS you can compare them to ? APP, L2P, Echobuds, MW07+, etc... thanks !


----------



## Luke Skywalker

webvan said:


> What ? Surely you can't be lying on your side with your head/ear against the pillow with the WF-1000xm3 ?!


i could do that with my Jabra 65's but not the N6


----------



## Luke Skywalker

hifi80sman said:


> I posted this in the DEALS section as well, but the original MW07 is going for $109.50 (all available colors).
> https://www.amazon.com/Master-Dynamic-Earphones-Connectivity-Tortoiseshell/dp/B07H8S4N36/


hey do you have a link to the Deals section?  I haven't seen that!  thanks


----------



## hifi80sman

Luke Skywalker said:


> hey do you have a link to the Deals section?  I haven't seen that!  thanks


https://www.head-fi.org/threads/the...the-first-post.692119/page-1994#post-15530090


----------



## shuto77

What are the top two/ three choices in the under $100 bracket, $100-200, and $200+ brackets? I don't value anc, and actually consider it a detriment since it usually (always?) colors the sound, and I don't personally have a need for it. I understand it's a super useful feature, but not so much for me. That said, if the top choice happens to have it, I get it. 

I apologize if this has already been asked. There are just so many posts.

I have a Jabra Elite Active 65T and I'm looking for an upgrade.


----------



## IEManiac

So I own the L2P. What would be a clear, unquestionable upgrade in SQ?


----------



## dweaver

I own the L2P, MTW original, and Galaxy Buds and I like the L2P the most sonically. The MTW is warmer and wider sounding and like it second best but the L2P has better detail and an overall richer sound. The Galaxy buds sound a bit to thin to my ears.


----------



## lucifero13

Hello guys! Any half in-ears you could recommend? Im still adding my options up. 

Am currently looking at Mifo's half in ear, but I think it is only available at HK. Also, most of the sellers online does not have the exact name model of it.


----------



## assassin10000

Sabbat X12 pro (aac/sbc) or Sabbat X12 Ultra (aptx/aac/sbc & qi wireless charging)

Not E12 or E12 ultra which are IEM's


You're talking about the Mifo 02. I haven't heard or used them, maybe check reviews on amazon?


----------



## Caipirina

lucifero13 said:


> Hello guys! Any half in-ears you could recommend? Im still adding my options up.
> 
> Am currently looking at Mifo's half in ear, but I think it is only available at HK. Also, most of the sellers online does not have the exact name model of it.


I very much second the notion for the X12, i
Like them so much that I got a back
Up pair for my pros and just today I also ordered an X12 Ultra from AE for 45$ (The ultra add AptX and Qi charging)
You can put foams on for better fit and they come with wings to stabilize when running.


----------



## howdy

I was cleaning up my yard using my gas leaf blower, on my back yard I used my Sony XM3 with noise cancel on and could just barely hear the blower and was able to concentrate on the music. This took a few hours and they stayed in place really good. In the front I used the power beats pro and the blower overpowered the isolation and I had to crank it up a lot more. 
Just an observation. Maybe I'll try the LP2 next to see how they isolate against the leaf blower.


----------



## kelter (Mar 28, 2020)

dweaver said:


> I own the L2P, MTW original, and Galaxy Buds and I like the L2P the most sonically. The MTW is warmer and wider sounding and like it second best but the L2P has better detail and an overall richer sound. The Galaxy buds sound a bit to thin to my ears.


Do you have MTW100 BA or just MTW100? I can buy liberty 2 pro for 85$ with a few fat ali coupons and im interesting about sound, will it better than BA version or not. And what about comfort in ear. They have a very very big cases.

Ohh you about momentum true wireless, i thought you about shanling. BTW anybody compare MTW100 BA and L2P?


----------



## lucifero13

Caipirina said:


> I very much second the notion for the X12, i
> Like them so much that I got a back
> Up pair for my pros and just today I also ordered an X12 Ultra from AE for 45$ (The ultra add AptX and Qi charging)
> You can put foams on for better fit and they come with wings to stabilize when running.



Im from Ireland, and Aliexpress cant seem to accept my card. Any markets would you suggest that I can access here?


----------



## snip3r77

hi guys, will I be fine with the SoundPeats True Dot? Using it for commuting ( something cheap ) or should I get something with ANC( are we ready for prime time? )


----------



## Darkestred

IEManiac said:


> So I own the L2P. What would be a clear, unquestionable upgrade in SQ?



Don't think that exists, yet.  Seems like you'd be a side move if you went with something else.  Unless, you're looking for a specific sound signature.


----------



## hifi80sman

howdy said:


> I was cleaning up my yard using my gas leaf blower, on my back yard I used my Sony XM3 with noise cancel on and could just barely hear the blower and was able to concentrate on the music. This took a few hours and they stayed in place really good. In the front I used the power beats pro and the blower overpowered the isolation and I had to crank it up a lot more.
> Just an observation. Maybe I'll try the LP2 next to see how they isolate against the leaf blower.


The problem with the XM3, for me, is when I start to get a little sweaty, they begin to loosen a bit, so I have to keep readjusting.  I wish they would have designed them to where there was an option for fins like the MW07 fins.  I still use them for the gym, but it does get a bt tiresome to adjust them when I'm 30 mins into my workout.


----------



## mikp

well, mavin are coming out with a pass through version, no mention of anc. So far, on paper, the senns v2 looks good. Too bad about the price.


----------



## gibletzor

Windmolinos said:


> Do you know if the B530 has a micro for calls?
> Thanks!


Yes, I've found the call quality to be excellent on the B530s.


----------



## bubsdaddy

howdy said:


> I was cleaning up my yard using my gas leaf blower, on my back yard I used my Sony XM3 with noise cancel on and could just barely hear the blower and was able to concentrate on the music. This took a few hours and they stayed in place really good. In the front I used the power beats pro and the blower overpowered the isolation and I had to crank it up a lot more.
> Just an observation. Maybe I'll try the LP2 next to see how they isolate against the leaf blower.



i am unable to get an isolating fit with the Power Beats pros. If I squeeze the hooks tight the sound is ok. The maids and treble are higher than I prefer while running. I think  the sound of the Mpow flame 2 with foam tips is actually better even thought the Mpow isn’t a true wireless.


----------



## IEManiac

Darkestred said:


> Don't think that exists, yet.  Seems like you'd be a side move if you went with something else.  Unless, you're looking for a specific sound signature.


Got it. Thanks.


----------



## howdy

bubsdaddy said:


> i am unable to get an isolating fit with the Power Beats pros. If I squeeze the hooks tight the sound is ok. The maids and treble are higher than I prefer while running. I think  the sound of the Mpow flame 2 with foam tips is actually better even thought the Mpow isn’t a true wireless.


I actually do get a great deal with the power beats pro. You do need to find the proper position for the ear hooks or they will pull the ear piece away from ear breaking the seal. I get great thumping bass and good treble balance. Really comfortable to.


----------



## go0gle

IEManiac said:


> So I own the L2P. What would be a clear, unquestionable upgrade in SQ?



Might have to wait a bit for the new qualcomm chipsets for that. I think anker pretty much maxed out the current tech.


----------



## Zlivan

So what do you guys think of QCY T4 that just appeared on Ali yesterday? There's an app now, with EQ, button customization and what not.
Ordered a pair, hopefully they'll arrive this year...


----------



## axhng

Zlivan said:


> So what do you guys think of QCY T4 that just appeared on Ali yesterday? There's an app now, with EQ, button customization and what not.
> Ordered a pair, hopefully they'll arrive this year...



looks kinda interesting. ordered a pair too to see how it goes since it's not too expensive anyway.


----------



## Caipirina

Zlivan said:


> So what do you guys think of QCY T4 that just appeared on Ali yesterday? There's an app now, with EQ, button customization and what not.
> Ordered a pair, hopefully they'll arrive this year...


Interesting, but nothing that really tickles me. Interesting to see some features from apple’s playbook (pop up window, find your earbuds), but a lot of the stuff currently only supports android. Might circle back to those at whatever next sale.
Interesting choice of song title in their ad copy


----------



## musicfreak

Zlivan said:


> So what do you guys think of QCY T4 that just appeared on Ali yesterday? There's an app now, with EQ, button customization and what not.



I especially like that the app provides a equalizer. The tekst in the description talks about frequency adjustments next to presets, so hopefully you can really make adjustments per band. And maybee you can even save your own preset yet. Link to the app: https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.qcdroid.android.qcdroid

By the way, a successor to the T5s is also arriving, the T5s. Too bad, I just ordered the T5 the day before yesterday... It's only on the Chinese QCY site, https://www.qcy.com/zwxej


----------



## jant71

https://shop.panasonic.com/audio-and-video/headphones/RZ-S500W.html#start=1&cgid=headphones

Wonder if these are coming sooner since they went up on the site. Little early to put up the page if they were coming in June. April in Japan so maybe sooner. The 50 levels of NC is interesting but learned something more with the english site. The 6 hours of battery life is with NC ON. Most are getting 4.5 with it on so that is more decent. They keep talking about the sound so interesting to see how good even if they are a step off from the Technics version. How do they compare to the Senn and AT models. What will the price be as well? Japanese price converts to $200 but doubt that won't rise for NA. Think the AT dropped the price on the ANC300 $20 and the Panny will probably match that at $229.


----------



## Caipirina

Hmmm, I thought I was done with this diabolical AE sale.  Burned through all the coupons I had .... but no, now I am seeing a tempting offer for the Mifo O7: 112$ after coupons and coins! And that’s for the double BA version ... what to do, what to do???


if you happen to have that 7$ off 50$ coupon (or enough coupons & patience time swipe for it) you can get them for 105.68$ !!!
But what a great use of coins in this case!


----------



## RobinFood

jant71 said:


> https://shop.panasonic.com/audio-and-video/headphones/RZ-S500W.html#start=1&cgid=headphones
> 
> Wonder if these are coming sooner since they went up on the site. Little early to put up the page if they were coming in June. April in Japan so maybe sooner. The 50 levels of NC is interesting but learned something more with the english site. The 6 hours of battery life is with NC ON. Most are getting 4.5 with it on so that is more decent. They keep talking about the sound so interesting to see how good even if they are a step off from the Technics version. How do they compare to the Senn and AT models. What will the price be as well? Japanese price converts to $200 but doubt that won't rise for NA. Think the AT dropped the price on the ANC300 $20 and the Panny will probably match that at $229.



The official release date from e-earphones website is April 10th. So far the is not much in the way of reviews and impressive are pretty generic. The app for the technics has a band equalizer though, so I guess you can get the sound you want from them.


----------



## jant71 (Apr 10, 2020)

RobinFood said:


> The official release date from e-earphones website is April 10th. So far the is not much in the way of reviews and impressive are pretty generic. The app for the technics has a band equalizer though, so I guess you can get the sound you want from them.



Well that is Japan. I linked the NA shop Panasonic site which would be better since they should be $179 in NA. Last mention was June in NA but may roll out earlier. The product page might be indicative of that early arrival. Though the Technics would be the better one and a Momentum 2 fighter. That one didn't seem ready as they were trying to tune the sound and improve the battery life from the six to a bit more. Guess they will be $279 or $249 . Saw both mentioned but who knows. $249 isn't too bad. They seem to add better mics, 100 step NC over 50, and better sound, and if they upp the battery. They are bigger it seems cause they have an acoustic chamber to improve the sound.

Can't really buy them from Japan if they are gonna be $30/$40 more and warranty is a much bigger hassle or won't even be honored. The Panny may be an option esp. with a little street price drop after a little time. $150 isn't bad if they perform well enough.


----------



## Mouseman

Caipirina said:


> Hmmm, I thought I was done with this diabolical AE sale.  Burned through all the coupons I had .... but no, now I am seeing a tempting offer for the Mifo O7: 112$ after coupons and coins! And that’s for the double BA version ... what to do, what to do???
> 
> 
> if you happen to have that 7$ off 50$ coupon (or enough coupons & patience time swipe for it) you can get them for 105.68$ !!!
> But what a great use of coins in this case!


What other good deals did you see? I was kind of underwhelmed with this sale, but maybe it was what I had in my wishlist.


----------



## Caipirina

Mouseman said:


> What other good deals did you see? I was kind of underwhelmed with this sale, but maybe it was what I had in my wishlist.



not really ‘super’ deals, but I had a few items on wishlist (I.e. soundpeats truedots) that we’re like 2-4$ cheaper, then combine with coupons and such. 
as mentioned earlier, those Alien Secret AptX buds dropped from 32 to 26. But I ended up skipping them. 
now, with the postal system still down, and I expect our curfew to last for another 2 weeks at least, who knows when I’ll get my stuff


----------



## caprimulgus

kelter said:


> I can buy liberty 2 pro for 85$ with a few fat ali coupons



Damn man! How are you getting them that cheap!? (I'm seeing $125, and they offered me a $2 coupon - lol)


----------



## Caipirina

caprimulgus said:


> Damn man! How are you getting them that cheap!? (I'm seeing $125, and they offered me a $2 coupon - lol)


Best I can get it down is 117$ ... but already burned all my Ali coupons (and most of my coins) Still even with the 7 off 50$ coupon and ample coins... 85$ seems to good to be true  @kelter , you know you cannot stack coupons, like if you have the 7, the 5 and the 3.... ? But good on you if you get 85$ displayed the way I get 117$. I’d say go for it
Awesome Coupon-Fu!!!


----------



## howdy

I wish the MW07 fit me good. The first iteration is only 100 bucks. I've bought two already at 300 and they just don't fit right but when I did get a seal they where the best sounding TWS I've heard!


----------



## martiniCZ

I didn't endure waiting for KZ S2 and ordered Whizzer Coopbuds C3. The presentation, confused description and fake reviews discouraged me, but at least it would be an $30 adventure


----------



## kelter (Mar 30, 2020)

Caipirina said:


> Best I can get it down is 117$ ... but already burned all my Ali coupons (and most of my coins) Still even with the 7 off 50$ coupon and ample coins... 85$ seems to good to be true  @kelter , you know you cannot stack coupons, like if you have the 7, the 5 and the 3.... ? But good on you if you get 85$ displayed the way I get 117$. I’d say go for it
> Awesome Coupon-Fu!!!


I know, there was 20$ off 40 for their store on coupon distribution before 03.27
8$ off 80$ ali coupon
And using 8$ off with special coupons, but they not working already. Now their price for me 95$ and i have doubt they better than my mtw100 BA, maybe i will buy second pair of them.

And check this https://campaign.aliexpress.com/wow/gf/main_page?aff_platform=promotion its for russian buyers platform, but coupons works on all aliexpress.


----------



## Caipirina (Mar 30, 2020)

kelter said:


> I know, there was 20$ off 40 for their store on coupon distribution before 03.27
> 8$ off 80$ ali coupon
> And using 8$ off with special coupons, but they not working already. Now their price for me 95$ and i have doubt they better than my mtw100 BA, maybe i will buy second pair of them.
> 
> And check this https://campaign.aliexpress.com/wow/gf/main_page?aff_platform=promotion its for russian buyers platform, but coupons works on all aliexpress.


Oh cool. Too bad (or maybe good?) that I could not get that 12.30$ coupon. Only the bigger one for purchase over 312$ still available.  How does one find those? I thought my coupon skills are pretty ok. But this is next level 

Now coupons are gone behind this link ... maybe better .. I think with another 12.30 off i would possibly have ordered the L2P for like 105$ ... as if I need yet another pair of TWS


----------



## kelter (Mar 30, 2020)

Caipirina said:


> Oh cool. Too bad (or maybe good?) that I could not get that 12.30$ coupon. Only the bigger one for purchase over 246$ still available.  How does one find those? I thought my coupon skills are pretty ok. But this is next level


There is distribution by timer, each time they give out is about 1000 coupons and you have very short time to pick up for youself. You cannot take more than 1 identical coupon in one time, but you can in next time.



> I thought my coupon skills are pretty ok. But this is next level


Oof, you dont know about CIS abusers, they can create 1000 accounts per month and using 60-99% discount on the first buy


----------



## Caipirina (Mar 30, 2020)

kelter said:


> There is distribution by timer, each time they give out is about 1000 coupons and you have very short time to pick up for youself. You cannot take more than 1 identical coupon in one time, but you can in next time.
> 
> 
> Oof, you dont know about CIS abusers, they can create 1000 accounts per month and using 60-99% discount on the first buy


And I think I don’t want to know about them 

but well, another 5h until next round  until then I can decide if I really need that L2P ... but so tempting to coupon the heck out of this 

I use the  emoji wayyyy toooo much


----------



## kelter (Mar 30, 2020)

There is not bad coupons too https://campaign.aliexpress.com/wow...0.795c3d14T11zBq&wh_pid=tmall_328_Competition
They will be very limited.  Thats only for RU, unfortunately. That works https://campaign.aliexpress.com/wow/gf/main_page?aff_platform=promotion

Or here without timer but worse by % https://campaign.aliexpress.com/wow/gf/Daily-deals that working on all ali.


----------



## Caipirina

So, thanks to some extra coupon-fu (thanks @kelter ) I could get the SoundCore Liberty 2 Pro for 108$ .... But should I??? 
I mean, AptX, Knowles BA, app ...  what am I forgetting???


----------



## howdy

Caipirina said:


> So, thanks to some extra coupon-fu (thanks @kelter ) I could get the SoundCore Liberty 2 Pro for 108$ .... But should I???
> I mean, AptX, Knowles BA, app ...  what am I forgetting???


I thought you had these already? If not, you should! Fit is great and sound is really up there.


----------



## Caipirina

howdy said:


> I thought you had these already? If not, you should! Fit is great and sound is really up there.



No, first they did not grab my attention, then there was this whole 'hiss-gate' ... and then the Oluv vs. Jimmy Reviewers are sell outs debacle .. so, I am still very much on the fence about them ...


----------



## ngd3

@Caipirina - no brainer if you want a sub bass cannon with good app EQ. The bass texture is amazing, if I'm ever in the mood for a brain massage the L2P are the go to set


----------



## turbobb

howdy said:


> I wish the MW07 fit me good. The first iteration is only 100 bucks. I've bought two already at 300 and they just don't fit right but when I did get a seal they where the best sounding TWS I've heard!



Whole-heartedly agree re: SQ, still one of my fav TWS. I simply couldn't get a good fit either with the stock tips but Spinfit CP350's solved the issue for me (sadly they're discontinued - Spinfit rep recommends CP100Z that was explicitly made for MW07).

Also as a PSA for MW07 owners, I was having a bunch of connection issues with mine lately even after removing and repairing them so I reached out to support about performing a reset since I don't see it covered in the manual and here's how to do that:

- Hard reset the earphones by holding the "Vol-" and "Vol+" buttons down simultaneously for 7 seconds. You may see a quick flash of light on the earphone.

Seems to have solved the issue but I'll give it another few days...


----------



## Caipirina

ngd3 said:


> @Caipirina - no brainer if you want a sub bass cannon with good app EQ. The bass texture is amazing, if I'm ever in the mood for a brain massage the L2P are the go to set


What about the whole hiss thing? Is that still on the table or by now fixed?


----------



## ngd3

Fixed with the newest revision. I would say there is still very low level hiss but you won't notice it once music is playing, even without it doesn't bother me at all

Tip recommendation - regular Sedna Earfit Lights. Deep comfortable fit and they take some of the spiciness off the treble and smooth out the sound somewhat


----------



## Darkestred (Mar 30, 2020)

Caipirina said:


> So, thanks to some extra coupon-fu (thanks @kelter ) I could get the SoundCore Liberty 2 Pro for 108$ .... But should I???
> I mean, AptX, Knowles BA, app ...  what am I forgetting???



Thats a really good price for a nice TWS. If you already have a nice pair then i wouldnt bother.



Caipirina said:


> What about the whole hiss thing? Is that still on the table or by now fixed?



Get some tinnitus - clears it right up  

Havent heard any on mine but i also *ahem* ^^


----------



## hifi80sman

Some SSF knock offs.  Anyone try these yet?

https://www.amazon.com/Bluetooth-Wireless-Charging-Headphone-Binaural/dp/B085Q7XL6D/


----------



## Caipirina (Mar 30, 2020)

hifi80sman said:


> Some SSF knock offs.  Anyone try these yet?
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/Bluetooth-Wireless-Charging-Headphone-Binaural/dp/B085Q7XL6D/


Ordered 2/23 for 19$ on AE ... pretty certain I asked around here as well (yes, on 2/05). So, stuck in mail, but should be among the first items to show up once postal services resume here.
will report back.


----------



## hifi80sman

Caipirina said:


> Ordered 2/23 for 19$ on AE ... pretty certain I asked around here as well (yes, on 2/05). So, stuck in mail, but should be among the first items to show up once postal services resume here.
> will report back.


Looking forward to it!


----------



## howdy

Anyone have intermittent connection issues with LP2 Pros? I've had it happen a few times where it will not connect unless I put them back in the case sometime this needs to be repeated a few times to get it to connect. I've had these for 4 or 5 months (or when ever it was that they came out) and it's happened like 3 or 4 times.


----------



## Caipirina

howdy said:


> Anyone have intermittent connection issues with LP2 Pros? I've had it happen a few times where it will not connect unless I put them back in the case sometime this needs to be repeated a few times to get it to connect. I've had these for 4 or 5 months (or when ever it was that they came out) and it's happened like 3 or 4 times.


I even have this funky behavior with my AirPod Pros some time ...


----------



## Darkestred

howdy said:


> Anyone have intermittent connection issues with LP2 Pros? I've had it happen a few times where it will not connect unless I put them back in the case sometime this needs to be repeated a few times to get it to connect. I've had these for 4 or 5 months (or when ever it was that they came out) and it's happened like 3 or 4 times.


Nope.


----------



## koven

RobinFood said:


> Can anyone comment on the Sennheiser mtw2 if it is worth getting over the Sony wf-1000xm3?
> 
> They seem to have it all, but a lot of anc buds have fallen extremely short on noise cancelling compared to the Sony buds, and in the sound department too despite the lack of aptx.



I've been using the XM3 for a while and pre-ordered the new Senn. Looks to ship this Friday.


----------



## RobinFood (Mar 31, 2020)

koven said:


> I've been using the XM3 for a while and pre-ordered the new Senn. Looks to ship this Friday.



In Japan they will only be out mid May. I am waiting for some review of the technics on the 10th to know if they will be worth the 8000 yen more over the XM3...

They have a nice big driver, the app seems comparable, and they are sweatproof. The shape seems better, but we can't know until we try.


----------



## Caipirina

Caipirina said:


> Anyone know of these? Appears to be a new-ish 1MORE model, earbud style and only available at Gearbest? Can't find any other source online really ... I like that earbud style, but not sure I would want to shell out the 42$ asking price right now ... 20-22$ maybe    (ooooh, just found "34.99$ with the code: GB20201MORE")
> Just odd that this only shows up in one spot (and here in the forums in a gearbest thread, that's how I came across them).. and there is one YT video ...



Found them on AliExpress, but seems this is a local Russian offer ONLY. via TMALL ... not sure how I ended up finding it (looks like I was looking for '1more tws'), but now it sits in my cart, but can't be shipped 

If one day I see them easy for 20-22$, then maybe ... like the look  

Maybe on of our Russian friends wants to review them?


----------



## tgx78

Anyone using Fiil T1X with Dolby Atmos 'on'? I always used my iPhone with the T1X, but today I tried my Huawei P20 pro -> Tidal -> Dolby Atmos Smart mode on -> AAC and it sounded really good. Tonality kind of reminds me half way between original and Bass EQ setting within Fiil's app with more emphasis on sub-bass. Timbre didn't go whack either. 
Hope someone can try and chime in.


----------



## cresny

PSA: Cleer Ally Plus are finally back in stock -- at $30 lower than they were before. With the MTW 2, then perhaps the Panasonic RZ-S500W, there are now a lot more good options on the ANC front. Given that the new CSR8675 chipset is going to change everything in about a year or less I'm wondering if $170 for the Cleers would be "good enough" in the meantime rather than $300 for the MTWs. Cleer owners who have put the Ally Plus though the paces by now, opinions welcomed!


----------



## BigZ12 (Apr 1, 2020)

Ok guys, I couldn't resist. $300... a lot of money 
I'm no review writer, but I can summarize my two hours of testing.

Used updated Lypertek Tevis, using Comply Foam M tips, as comparison. I really love the sound in these, and I have never before heard any BT in-ear headset sound better.

Tips used when testing:
JVC Spiral Dots M+, Symbio normal bore M, a couple of different Comply Foam tips (the True grip for Tevis, Audio Pro w/smart core and Comfort TSx200, all mediums), a collection of different Spinfits (CP350Z, CP100 and CP100Z).
I ended up using the Comply Audio Pro M with smart core, but it's just a little big for the charging case. Let's see if I find it irritating pressing them lightly down to make it charge.
Sound, especially bass, volume (yes they actually sounded louder compared to some of the others), isolation and comfort were noticably better than the other mentions.

ANC and transparent/ambient mode:
The fit and isolation with the Comply Audio Pro is really making the passive noise cancellation work very well. With usual noise indoors, it's actually a little difficult to hear if ANC is on or off 
It's when I opened the balcony door, and the noise of a road with a lot of traffic filled the room, I really could hear the ANC work. It's no way the same effect as my Sony WH-1000XM3 of course, but it did a decent job. Have just talked to my neighbour for a minute or two testing the transparent mode, and it did a good job. Not as good as the Airpods Pro, I think, but I have to test this more later. The traffic noise were very loud with transparent mode on, so it's no doubt it works guite good.
*No noticable white noise or hiss with ANC on/off. Neither did I hear any difference in sound quality.*

App:
I haven't played with the EQ yet, just because it's a little strange with no manual adjustment of each frequency bands, but also because I like the sound as is (I'll come back to that later)
Other than that, see the pics for possibilities in the menu. I got a firmware update before I used them for the first time. Took about 20 mins to finish. No problems. A little annoyed that I didn't read the release notes before updating, cause now I don't find them anywhere.

Buttons / control:
This is the first that really impressed me. They are working very well. Very precise. In the app you can customize the control of each command. Very pleased with this!

Sound:
I have to start with the following: *NO NFMI/SBC- or crackle noises like the 1st generation!!!*  I was sooo afraid of this when turning them on the first time 
As I said, I compared the MTW2 with the Lypertek Tevi when testing. They actually have a very similar sound signature. Please note I used my new pair, updated at Lypertek with app support and new firmware.
I'm not good describing the sound, but I can say the MTW2 is now the best I've heard.
Sound is very engaging. Bass is deep, punchy, mids are beautifully airy with voices sounding better than ever (listening to the new Hayley Williams - Roses... just now, and her voice gives me goosebumps), and highs are detailed and crips with no sibilance (which I hate)
The most noticably difference to the Tevis are actually the wider soundstage. Very easy to hear the more narrow sounding Tevis when switching between them.
If I should say something negative, it would be that the MTW2 are not as loud as for ex. the Lypertek Tevis. I've actually used from 80 to 90% volume these couple of hours I've been testing/listening to them. That's as 70-80% with the Tevis.

Battery and Mic quality: 
Have to come back to this later, after testing a couple of days.

These are definately a keeper, and that will make my nephew very happy, since I promised him the Tevis if the MTW2s were better. 

Any questions?


----------



## Caipirina

Circling back to the 1MORE Anc tws. I recall that whole ‘sound goes bad with anc on’ fiasco. Anyone here hung on to them until new FW and can now report if this has been fixed ?
I keep loving my 1MORE stylish and keep wishing there was an improved version, which the anc model is supposed to be ...


----------



## C_Lindbergh

I'm just disappointed that the feature to control all your connections still isn't here for the Sennheiser MTW2... Even now when the Apps been moved out of beta, i hope that feature will be launched soon.


----------



## hifi80sman

BigZ12 said:


> Ok guys, I couldn't resist. $300... a lot of money
> I'm no review writer, but I can summarize my two hours of testing.
> 
> Used updated Lypertek Tevis, using Comply Foam M tips, as comparison. I really love the sound in these, and I have never before heard any BT in-ear headset sound better.
> ...


No NFMI?!  Nice.  I'd be interested in the call quality, as that was an issue with the last generation (started off OK, but then degraded the longer you were on the call).

Also, is there a major delay with the touch controls?  The 1st gen had a bad delay and the touches were not in sync with the audible beeps.


----------



## BigZ12

C_Lindbergh said:


> I'm just disappointed that the feature to control all your connections still isn't here for the Sennheiser MTW2... Even now when the Apps been moved out of beta, i hope that feature will be launched soon.


Do you think they could/should be louder too? Otherwise, do you agree with what I wrote?


----------



## Luchyres

BigZ12 said:


> Sound:
> I have to start with the following: *NO NFMI / SBC- or crackle noises like the 1st generation!!!*  I was sooo afraid of this when turning them on the first time
> As I said, I compared the MTW2 with the Lypertek Tevi when testing. They actually have a very similar sound signature. Please note I used my new pair, updated at Lypertek with app support and new firmware.
> I'm not good describing the sound, but I can say the MTW2 is now the best I've heard.
> Sound is very engaging. Bass is deep, punchy, mids are beautifully airy with voices sounding better than ever (listening to the new Hayley Williams - Roses... just now, and her voice gives me goosebumps), and highs are detailed and crips with no sibilance (which I hate)




Thank you! Very interested to hear on the NFMI issue - and, like you, concerned that they wouldn't address it. 

Can you compare the max volume with any of your others (haven't heard the Tevis, unfortunately) as my new concern is that they will be too quiet overall (quieter than MTW v1?) 

Also, is the case the same size as the original? Any more pocketable?

Thank you for sharing!


----------



## BigZ12

hifi80sman said:


> No NFMI?!  Nice.  I'd be interested in the call quality, as that was an issue with the last generation (started off OK, but then degraded the longer you were on the call).
> 
> Also, is there a major delay with the touch controls?  The 1st gen had a bad delay and the touches were not in sync with the audible beeps.


I actually don't know if they use NFMI, but with the first generation I heard the SBC noise (as I called it) introduced with NFMI (since NFMI use SBC as codec from right to left) in the left earbud. 

I don't think the delay is bad (didn't notice this before I returned the 1st gen), and now the touches are in sync with the beeps.


----------



## BigZ12 (Mar 31, 2020)

Luchyres said:


> Thank you! Very interested to hear on the NFMI issue - and, like you, concerned that they wouldn't address it.
> 
> Can you compare the max volume with any of your others (haven't heard the Tevis, unfortunately) as my new concern is that they will be too quiet overall (quieter than MTW v1?)
> 
> ...


As I answered hifi80sman just now; With the 2nd gen I don't hear the metallic noise in the left earbud, which I called "SBC-noise" when I reviewed the 1st gen. (or the annoying crackle in the right, which I think were removed with a later firmware)
If this means the 2nd gen isn't using NFMI, or that they use a newer version with other codecs, I really don't know.

I don't have the 1st gen case, so I can't compare it for you. Maybe you can find pics somewhere in a review online?

Compared the volume again with Lypertek and Tronsmart Spunky Beats. On my iPhone X, the Tronsmart are one step louder than the MTW2. (steps as in pressing +/- button on the iPhone). Lypertek is maybe 2 steps louder. Between 1 and 2 at least.


----------



## C_Lindbergh

BigZ12 said:


> Do you think they could/should be louder too? Otherwise, do you agree with what I wrote?



I think they're loud enough for most songs that I listen to, I usually keep them at 80%. 

Otherwise I agree with what you wrote


----------



## BigZ12

Luchyres said:


> Also, is the case the same size as the original? Any more pocketable?
> 
> Thank you for sharing!


MTW1: 78.6 x 45 x 35 mm
MTW2: 76,8 x 43,8 x 34,7 mm


----------



## BigZ12

C_Lindbergh said:


> I think they're loud enough for most songs that I listen to, I usually keep them at 80%.
> 
> Otherwise I agree with what you wrote


It's a little annoying that there's no indicator showing how many charges are left in the case. 
And no light on the buds, showing if they are charging or fully charged. (you have to press the button on the back of the case for this?)

Tried a phone call now to my nephew. Ok sound, and he did hear me well (I'm in a quiet living room). 
But! I had to turn up the volume compared to using the Lypertek for phone calls as well as for music etc.


----------



## C_Lindbergh

BigZ12 said:


> It's a little annoying that there's no indicator showing how many charges are left in the case.
> And no light on the buds, showing if they are charging or fully charged. (you have to press the button on the back of the case for this?)
> 
> Tried a phone call now to my nephew. Ok sound, and he did hear me well (I'm in a quiet living room).
> But! I had to turn up the volume compared to using the Lypertek for phone calls as well as for music etc.



Yea that's really annoying that you can't see the charge on case in the app.  It does show the cases battery life when you take an earbud out, problem is that the light is on the back of the case you wont notice it.


----------



## proto

I just performed a reset of my Fiil T1X through the Android app (as I thought they were acting up...) and it changed the spoken message voice from original English to Chinese. Any ideas how to get English back?


----------



## TheLionelHutz (Mar 31, 2020)

New IPX7 buds with ANC coming from AKG without Samsung branding. Battery life isn't as good as GBuds+, but the hit from ANC doesn't seem that bad (from 6 down to 5). Only one more charge from the case, though, which seems preposterous.

https://www.theverge.com/2020/3/31/...rbuds-price-features-release-date-south-korea


----------



## Francesco Montanari

proto said:


> I just performed a reset of my Fiil T1X through the Android app (as I thought they were acting up...) and it changed the spoken message voice from original English to Chinese. Any ideas how to get English back?


You need to pair then with iOS (since iOS app is completely in English)


----------



## tracyca




----------



## IEManiac

tracyca said:


>


So, dollar-per-dollar, which is the SQ champ?


----------



## tracyca

IEManiac said:


> So, dollar-per-dollar, which is the SQ champ?
> [/QUOTE To me, I must say the LP2 only 100usd. Hard to beat for its price.


----------



## SilverEars (Mar 31, 2020)

I recently got the M&D MW07, and I don't like the sound.  The bass is bloated and treble is harsh (shrilly treble) like I saw of the response.  I don't know how people can rate the sound higher than APP.  Tonality sucks.  Boosted treble doesn't make more details.  It's V-shaped with not enough mids presence.


----------



## harpdoc

The MW07 Plus is on sale at Best Buy for the next 4 hours for $240. Absolutely love mine.


----------



## jwong (Mar 31, 2020)

How do you get the LP2 for $100? Looks like $120 on AE. Although I probably don't get the voodoo of additional coupons, etc.


----------



## IEManiac

harpdoc said:


> The MW07 Plus is on sale at Best Buy for the next 4 hours for $240. Absolutely love mine.


On sale? For only $240?? Wow, what a steal!

I love my L2P but I get a wicked sense of satisfaction when I put on my even better sounding, $35 BQEYZ wired IEM.


----------



## go0gle

wires ... such a distant past for me lol


----------



## jwong

go0gle said:


> wires ... such a distant past for me lol



Yep. I have some nice wired IEMs, but realistically if I'm going to use wires I'll probably have my over-ear headphones on.


----------



## TheLionelHutz

I haven't been commuting or traveling since I've been shut up in the house these least 3 weeks, so I haven't really listened to my Nuarl N6s in all that time. But I pulled them out today to give a listen and wow, I was blown away all over again! Those things are sick.


----------



## hifi80sman

It’s time to order more.  Being stuck at home is the perfect storm for this hobby.


----------



## GeeD

Caipirina said:


> Circling back to the 1MORE Anc tws. I recall that whole ‘sound goes bad with anc on’ fiasco. Anyone here hung on to them until new FW and can now report if this has been fixed ?
> I keep loving my 1MORE stylish and keep wishing there was an improved version, which the anc model is supposed to be ...



For some reason mine were great BEFORE the update last week ... I know they were great because now that I've applied the new FW, I see what kind of difference you can get - mine have been trashed, with ANC the music sounds as if it is in a tin box


----------



## cheesesteak

BigZ12 said:


> Ok guys, I couldn't resist. $300... a lot of money
> I'm no review writer, but I can summarize my two hours of testing.
> 
> Used updated Lypertek Tevis, using Comply Foam M tips, as comparison. I really love the sound in these, and I have never before heard any BT in-ear headset sound better.
> ...


 Able to use the left and right independently? Read some reviews that have differing comments


----------



## C_Lindbergh

cheesesteak said:


> Able to use the left and right independently? Read some reviews that have differing comments



Nope you cannot... Which is a real shame given the price.


----------



## cheesesteak

C_Lindbergh said:


> Nope you cannot... Which is a real shame given the price.



Wow was considering it, but for the price, if independent earbuds use is limited to the right, then it doesn’t make sense. It’s using the qcc chip which means that they could enable it. Lack of wireless charging at that price is also bad. For that price, was expected all features to be present. Was hoping ipx5 rating as well.


----------



## proto

proto said:


> I just performed a reset of my Fiil T1X through the Android app (as I thought they were acting up...) and it changed the spoken message voice from original English to Chinese. Any ideas how to get English back?





Francesco Montanari said:


> You need to pair then with iOS (since iOS app is completely in English)


I actually tried that with both an iPad and an iPhone but the language still stays Chinese.


----------



## thimantha

proto said:


> I actually tried that with both an iPad and an iPhone but the language still stays Chinese.



Try changing the iOS region to USA.


----------



## tracyca

jwong said:


> How do you get the LP2 for $100? Looks like $120 on AE. Although I probably don't get the voodoo of additional coupons, etc.


I purchased my set last Dec. when they were on promotion.


----------



## go0gle

https://www.theverge.com/2020/4/1/21202919/airpods-apple-airbag-bag-twelve-south-price-rihanna

Yes, please.


----------



## Caipirina

Tonight I was wondering if there are any earhook style TWS out there with AptX ... I was surprised to see that i.e. the Soundpeats Truwings do NOT have QC3020 .. thought soundpeat by now puts that crap on everything ... 
Some digging later and more by chance I come across one of my less fav YTers talking up the Anker Soundcore Spirit X2! with AptX!!!






But there is something really strange with these ... a) even his affiliate link to amazon brings up a eufy security cam system instead? that could be a temporary glitch. b) the oifficial Anker store in AE does not have them, nor any other seller on AE c) according to site search, they have never been mentioned on Head-fi before ... 
Now, what;s the story I wonder ...


----------



## Luke Skywalker

koven said:


> I've been using the XM3 for a while and pre-ordered the new Senn. Looks to ship this Friday.


can't wait to hear what you think... I'm on the fence between those 2


----------



## Luke Skywalker

TheLionelHutz said:


> I haven't been commuting or traveling since I've been shut up in the house these least 3 weeks, so I haven't really listened to my Nuarl N6s in all that time. But I pulled them out today to give a listen and wow, I was blown away all over again! Those things are sick.


I dig mine too but I've had no luck getting the firmware to update since I got them.  Have you had any issues?


----------



## jant71

AKG with ANC...


----------



## TheLionelHutz

Luke Skywalker said:


> I dig mine too but I've had no luck getting the firmware to update since I got them.  Have you had any issues?


I've had no issues with mine so haven't been concerned with firmware. What issues are you having? Regular or Pro?


----------



## Luke Skywalker

TheLionelHutz said:


> I've had no issues with mine so haven't been concerned with firmware. What issues are you having? Regular or Pro?


I have the Pro's...  I tried it months ago so I'll have to dig up the instructions and try it again.  I remember it being a fairly complex process...  Did it make any difference when you did the firmware? If the sound is the same I probably won't bother


----------



## TheLionelHutz

Luke Skywalker said:


> I have the Pro's...  I tried it months ago so I'll have to dig up the instructions and try it again.  I remember it being a fairly complex process...  Did it make any difference when you did the firmware? If the sound is the same I probably won't bother


Yeah, sorry, I meant I haven't updated the firmware, haven't felt a need to. I have the non-Pro, maybe that's the difference.


----------



## hifi80sman

jant71 said:


> AKG with ANC...


Hopefully, they aren't merely a tweak if the Galaxy Buds+ with ANC.  Looks like battery life is last-gen at about 5 to 6 hours (without/with ANC).


----------



## jant71 (Apr 1, 2020)

hifi80sman said:


> Hopefully, they aren't merely a tweak if the Galaxy Buds+ with ANC.  Looks like battery life is last-gen at about 5 to 6 hours (without/with ANC).



  Don't the Buds+ have a dual driver? These seem to be a 8.2mm single dynamic. What was in the first Galaxy buds?? The AKG are IPX7 and have their own design and colors. Seems to be more different than the same.

They have a metal sound tube as well as we can see...



...and the fit kit:


----------



## clerkpalmer

SilverEars said:


> I recently got the M&D MW07, and I don't like the sound.  The bass is bloated and treble is harsh (shrilly treble) like I saw of the response.  I don't know how people can rate the sound higher than APP.  Tonality sucks.  Boosted treble doesn't make more details.  It's V-shaped with not enough mids presence.



Evidence that SQ is subjective.  I love my APP but there is absolutely no comparison SQ wise to the MW07.  APP sound like $20 buds if you go back to back with them.  My ears must be old because I don't hear the treble spikes in the MW07 and I also don't find the bass to be nearly as boosted as other TWS such as the Sony, Senns or Ankers.  Compared to the APP which are very mid-centric, sure.  In any event, different strokes I guess.  My Senn2s arrive tomorrow. I  don't really need them given I am quite satisfied with my APP, LP2 and MW07 Plus but why the hell not?  Sitting in my basement 12 hours a day working warrants some new toys.  If they have fixed the dreaded battery drain and if the ANC is decent, they will be winners.


----------



## Luke Skywalker

$119 for the Sony WF-1000XM3 (Amazon Renewed).  I couldn’t resist! 

Sony WF-1000XM3 True Wireless Bluetooth Noise Canceling in-Ear Headphones Black (Renewed) https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07X8QHKFV/


----------



## go0gle

Luke Skywalker said:


> $119 for the Sony WF-1000XM3 (Amazon Renewed).  I couldn’t resist!
> 
> Sony WF-1000XM3 True Wireless Bluetooth Noise Canceling in-Ear Headphones Black (Renewed) https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07X8QHKFV/



can't go wrong at that price.. very nice


----------



## Spidermanxd

jant71 said:


> Don't the Buds+ have a dual driver? These seem to be a 8.2mm single dynamic. What was in the first Galaxy buds?? The AKG are IPX7 and have their own design and colors. Seems to be more different than the same.
> 
> They have a metal sound tube as well as we can see...
> 
> ...and the fit kit:


Sony also have new one coming

https://www.sony.com/electronics/truly-wireless/wf-xb700


----------



## nuggetbro

Spidermanxd said:


> Sony also have new one coming
> 
> https://www.sony.com/electronics/truly-wireless/wf-xb700


They look really nice. I am happy with my galaxy buds plus for now. I am sure the sonys will sound great though.


----------



## thimantha

hifi80sman said:


> Hopefully, they aren't merely a tweak if the Galaxy Buds+ with ANC.  Looks like battery life is last-gen at about 5 to 6 hours (without/with ANC).



Compared to the Galaxy Buds+

Pros:

IPx7 waterproof
ANC
Swipe control (not programmable)
Included Comply foam tips
Bigger driver

Cons:

Battery life & charging speed
Heavier 
No scalable codec
No gaming mode 
Double tap control is not programmable
No notification support
No Spotify integration
Master/slave configuration (?)


----------



## thimantha

Spidermanxd said:


> Sony also have new one coming
> 
> https://www.sony.com/electronics/truly-wireless/wf-xb700



No ANC. But, smaller, nicer looking buds and case.


----------



## cheesesteak

jant71 said:


> Don't the Buds+ have a dual driver? These seem to be a 8.2mm single dynamic. What was in the first Galaxy buds?? The AKG are IPX7 and have their own design and colors. Seems to be more different than the same.
> 
> They have a metal sound tube as well as we can see...
> 
> ...and the fit kit:



Looks good, but the placement of the buds in the case could be inverted. Also no aptx I believe


----------



## thimantha

cheesesteak said:


> Looks good, but the placement of the buds in the case could be inverted. Also no aptx I believe



Oh boy, didn't notice that until you pointed it out. That's gonna annoy the hell outta me.


----------



## martiniCZ (Apr 2, 2020)

SoundPEATS TrueDot on QCC3020 arrived yesterday. They are very compact and comfortable. I must admit that Onyx Neo looks a bit like toys compare to them, not only in appearance but also in sound. Custom eartips unfortunately don't fit into the case, but stocks tips are pretty good. Full touch control on TrueDot works without any issue, absolutely reliable. AptX works as promised, but it is not mentioned anywhere on the packaging. The battery life (BT 4.2) per charge is about 4 hours compared to 3 on the Onyx Neo at a comparable volume. On the other hand, charging takes a little longer.
My impressions about sound - good and strong bass, but liitle bit much safe trebles and because of that, they lack some details here compare to Onyx Neo. They also have a bit lower sensitivity, so the Onyx Neo plays louder, and perhaps cleaner at higher volumes. Both not critical, TrueDot still sounds more balanced and lively for most generes then Tronsmart's.
I definitely recommend them, they are really solid TWE and for most people probably a safer choice than Onyx Neo.
P.S. ... and especially TrueDot don't turn off with my M0 after 4 minutes


----------



## cleg

dyplay ANC TWS review. I was surprised, but ANC is really working here. Nor perfect of course, but for $50…


----------



## Caipirina

thimantha said:


> Oh boy, didn't notice that until you pointed it out. That's gonna annoy the hell outta me.



Hey Thimanta, what do you think the new import ban will do to our AliExpress shopping? Does that count as import? If so, I am screwed  

Any luck getting groceries?


----------



## Caipirina

cleg said:


> dyplay ANC TWS review. I was surprised, but ANC is really working here. Nor perfect of course, but for $50…



and i guess you don't have that static noise on the right bud when ANC is on? 
I am supposed to get a replacement pair, but the way that postal services are going now, that will take forever ...


----------



## Luke Skywalker

go0gle said:


> can't go wrong at that price.. very nice


Yeah, I agree!  I like my Nuarl's N6 Pro but the sound is not superb and the noise isolation is not fantastic (to be fair, I knew they didn't have ANC when I got them).  Looking forward to hearing the Sony's when they get here


----------



## thimantha

Caipirina said:


> Hey Thimanta, what do you think the new import ban will do to our AliExpress shopping? Does that count as import? If so, I am screwed



Hey mate, how's it going?

It does. :3 Basically all non-essential imports will be stopped. What was the last tracking update on your parcels?




Caipirina said:


> Any luck getting groceries?



No problems with groceries and essentials so far, since our area has a steady stream of mobile delivery trucks coming in. The cash in hand is going dry, though. Hoping that a mobile ATM comes to this area soon.

What's up with you? If you have any trouble getting essentials, just PM me. I'll lead you to some Facebook groups and sources where you can find information about getting stuff delivered.


----------



## Luke Skywalker

Hope I make it to Sri Lanka some day...  One of my favorite authors (Arthur C Clarke) lived there.  

No import issues in USA so far as I know...  A lot of places are going on lockdown though which sucks


----------



## thimantha

Luke Skywalker said:


> Hope I make it to Sri Lanka some day...  One of my favorite authors (Arthur C Clarke) lived there.



Do come, once this coronavirus thing settles down. If you like space and tech as much as you like Arthur C Clarke, the Arthur C. Clarke Institute for Modern Technologies and the space center is near my house.

http://www.accimt.ac.lk/


----------



## turbobb (Apr 2, 2020)

Announced back in January but they're now available:
https://www.shure.com/en-US/products/earphones/aonic215

EDIT: $279USD, BT5, 8hrs (32 total), AAC/aptX/SBC, Environment (Ambient) mode, Detachable (to use with other cables), USB-C charging


----------



## Luke Skywalker

thimantha said:


> Do come, once this coronavirus thing settles down. If you like space and tech as much as you like Arthur C Clarke, the Arthur C. Clarke Institute for Modern Technologies and the space center is near my house.
> 
> http://www.accimt.ac.lk/


Oh man that's so awesome thanks.  Just re-read "The Songs of Distant Earth"...


----------



## Luke Skywalker

turbobb said:


> Announced back in January but they're now available:
> https://www.shure.com/en-US/products/earphones/aonic215
> 
> EDIT: $279USD, BT5, 8hrs (32 total), AAC/aptX/SBC, Environment (Ambient) mode, Detachable (to use with other cables), USB-C charging


wow those look cool... I wonder how they sound?  I'll have to see if I can find a review somewhere


----------



## jant71 (Apr 2, 2020)

turbobb said:


> Announced back in January but they're now available:
> https://www.shure.com/en-US/products/earphones/aonic215



$280 for no ANC, no on board volume control, crap-tastic SE215 which 95% of us would detach right away and forget about. Back when the economic situation was still fine this was weak value. Probably needs to drop $130 from the price before people more in the know would think about it. Who would buy this over the FiiO model. Is coming with a 215, ambient, and having a charge case worth $230 difference?

Did we see this one yet? Hard to keep track ...



Sony WF-XB700 https://www.sony.com/electronics/truly-wireless/wf-xb700
Nice design and Sony up to 9 hours battery life now but how do they sound ?


----------



## clerkpalmer

Received my MTW2 today.  This is a nice upgrade.  The slightly smaller size is immediately noticeable and welcome.  It's not a huge difference but comfort is definitely improved.  SQ is excellent as expected.  I haven't had the old ones in a while but to my ears, they've toned down the bass which was needed.  With the first gen, I had to move the dot up and right to tame it a bit but these sound awesome on the flat setting.  Still wish they would just use a normal EQ.  3 taps on the right and ANC is activated.  Haven't tried it out in a noisy environment but it seems to be strong ANC.  I'm gonna give them a run on the trainer tonight with a fan and noise and will report back.  $300 is pricey but considering they are only $50 more than APP, its well worth it if SQ is important to you.  I still slightly prefer the overall SQ of the MW07 but the ANC is weak sauce and the fit remains fussy for me so they are off to the classifieds.  By the way, these are all around much better than the Sonys in terms of SQ, fit and the fact that they are IP rated.  I know the Sony's cost less and can be found for dirt cheap refurbished but the fit is horrific and no sweat proofing is a deal breaker.


----------



## russmarch

I just recently picked up the original MTW from a guy on here. I have not had time to really use them for music. Mostly using them for work as my goto, nice mics and I only have one in. Would be curious to know how much different it is than the original just in terms of SQ. By the way, I am new here so take it easy on me


----------



## clerkpalmer

russmarch said:


> I just recently picked up the original MTW from a guy on here. I have not had time to really use them for music. Mostly using them for work as my goto, nice mics and I only have one in. Would be curious to know how much different it is than the original just in terms of SQ. By the way, I am new here so take it easy on me


Welcome.  From memory I'd say they are virtually the same with the exception of maybe a little less boomy bass. It may simply be my perception. They really didn't need any upgrade in the sq department. From what I've read they may have redesigned the drivers.


----------



## russmarch

go0gle said:


> can't go wrong at that price.. very nice


What would you compare these too? I have the senn mtw 1st edition and I struggled between that and Sony. Can you tell me which you like better?


----------



## russmarch

clerkpalmer said:


> Welcome.  From memory I'd say they are virtually the same with the exception of maybe a little less boomy bass. It may simply be my perception. They really didn't need any upgrade in the sq department. From what I've read they may have redesigned the drivers.


I have yet to use any in ear anc stuff. I have a pair of beoplay h9's that exert pressure when it is on and it does not work well enough to even keep it on, I might add. What is the feeling with in ear anc. Does it cause pressure that you would have to get used too or is it easier on the ears than full size?


----------



## clerkpalmer

russmarch said:


> I have yet to use any in ear anc stuff. I have a pair of beoplay h9's that exert pressure when it is on and it does not work well enough to even keep it on, I might add. What is the feeling with in ear anc. Does it cause pressure that you would have to get used too or is it easier on the ears than full size?


I have h9s as well. Yes you get the same feeling with ANC iems so if you don't like that sensation best to skip it. The mw07 plus has a lighter version of ANC which does not give off that feeling.


----------



## russmarch

clerkpalmer said:


> I have h9s as well. Yes you get the same feeling with ANC iems so if you don't like that sensation best to skip it. The mw07 plus has a lighter version of ANC which does not give off that feeling.


Yeah, it takes some getting used too and I do not feel that the H9 does it well enough to keep it on unless I am in a really noisy place. How would you compare the MW07 and all it's in ear versions to the senn mtw. I had sony's mw's and senn mtw in my list of wants, but as far as sound quality goes, would you put them at the top of the list for wireless in-ear sound quality?


----------



## clerkpalmer

russmarch said:


> Yeah, it takes some getting used too and I do not feel that the H9 does it well enough to keep it on unless I am in a really noisy place. How would you compare the MW07 and all it's in ear versions to the senn mtw. I had sony's mw's and senn mtw in my list of wants, but as far as sound quality goes, would you put them at the top of the list for wireless in-ear sound quality?



MW07 and Senns are very close. I prefer the MW07 but others prefer the Senns. Nuarl N6 pro are near the top as well and cost less.


----------



## Caipirina

jant71 said:


> Did we see this one yet? Hard to keep track ...
> 
> Sony WF-XB700 https://www.sony.com/electronics/truly-wireless/wf-xb700
> Nice design and Sony up to 9 hours battery life but how do they sound ?


Hmmm. Thought first they were the H800 that ‘we saw’ not too long ago, but these are different. XB = extra bass 
So now Sony is pumping out new non ANC models with different sound sigs it seems. Look nice.


----------



## jant71

Caipirina said:


> Hmmm. Thought first they were the H800 that ‘we saw’ not too long ago, but these are different. XB = extra bass
> So now Sony is pumping out new non ANC models with different sound sigs it seems. Look nice.



And...and...wait for it...an IPX rating! IPX4 so you can sweat on a Sony TW again.


----------



## Caipirina

thimantha said:


> Hey mate, how's it going?
> 
> It does. :3 Basically all non-essential imports will be stopped. What was the last tracking update on your parcels?
> 
> ...



I wish they would clarify what they define as 'import', I believe this to apply to commercial shipping .. like when I order 20TWS with the intention to re-sell in the country. 
To enlighten @Luke Skywalker : I don't think the import ban here has anything to do with Covid 19, but with the Lankan Rupee drastically losing value. 

Most of my parcels are still at 'left country of origin' ... let's see 

As for the food situation in SL, thanks for the kind offer ... I am already in several of the FB groups which quickly have become rather useless / full / emotional. Best I have currently is a WhatsApp group for my immediate neighborhood. But I digress, we can talk more in PM

Back to TWS, currently listening to stuff on my KZ s1 and wondering when we will see the S2, there were some initial signs somewhere.

Bonus Question: who got what during the AE sale that's now over?


----------



## Caipirina

jant71 said:


> And...and...wait for it...an IPX rating! IPX4 so you can sweat on a Sony TW again.


----------



## russmarch

So this is probably a dumb question but I live in non urban United states. Are there any places where you can demo items. We just have them behind glass glued to a plastic board. There are no high end audio shops here.


----------



## bronco1015

for anyone who is interested, i'm thinking of selling my nuarls. i have several use cases where i really need ANC, and don't need the MTW2 and the n6 Pro. message me if interested.


----------



## thimantha (Apr 3, 2020)

@Bartig I know it's not the right thread, but do you have any new suggestions for a new Chi-Fi Bluetooth over/on ear headphones? I've been using the OneOdio Elysium as per your recommendation on Medium, but now it's starting to show signs of aging


----------



## FYLegend (Apr 4, 2020)

Again unfortunately there's no AptX on the AKG N400, only SBC and AAC (not sure if they might support Samsung Scalable). The new Sonys remind me of L2P in form factor.

Anyone here tried Dyplay Shield? I see them listed on Amazon.ca for 90$ CAD... Had seen one recent review saying V-shaped they are bassy and have recessed mids, highs are hot. Dyplay is apparently working on a newer version though:



Just wondering if anyone knows whether the delivery dates on Amazon.ca are just a conservative estimate or is everything really being held until the end of the month?

Another TWS from YOBYBO (who had released the "thinnest" TWS a while back). This one is in-ear and fortunately doesn't have stems. AIROHA 1532  chip, no telling of price except registering for "39% off". Unfortunately I had read they said the battery is 4-5 hours.
https://comingsoon.higizmos.com/not...SZnTaM857uuoRa4ldd5zfPnTJe98RjuLb4MFQBP0NzLg0

After almost 3 weeks with the Galaxy Buds+, here's my key takeaways:

*Sound*
- Lean, bright sound with emphasis on treble and uppermost mids. Bass is very picky, can reach quite deep on some tracks but mostly takes a back seat. The bass boost and soft presets don't really add a lot to the bass. I prefer using dynamic and normal EQ preset. Overall I don't find them sibilant and fatiguing, but I can definitely see people will consider it as such, not unlike ATH-MSR7.
- Sounds mostly clean with Scalable and AAC, with some occasional NFMI distortion in piano tracks. The distortion is a lot worse on SBC and quite noticeable in orchestral tracks.
- Slight channel imbalance with more sub-bass and treble to the left. RTINGs measurements seem to show a slight deviation in these areas as I have noticed. Not as bad as the dud TWS I've used before though. Oddly the mids sometimes evens out when I re-insert them.
vs Tronsmart Onyx Neo - Both are similarly bright, but the Onyx Neo has "sweeter" highs and larger soundstage while Buds+ sounds more brash and hot with more upper mid emphasis. Onyx Neo also has louder volume. On the flip side, the Onyx Neo has noticeably higher hiss/noise floor and the touch controls are poor in comparison.
vs Sabbat E12 Ultra - Much darker bassy sound with some midrange emphasis. Sounds a bit more open but not as detailed as Buds+
vs Aufo M1 - Darker with a more punchy sound don't fit very well in my ears except with the Bud+ medium tips (which fortunately fit in their case!)

*Connectivity and usability*
- Connection is excellent overall, although it seems sensitive to passing electric trolley buses when waiting for my commute.
- No multipoint, but has quick-pairing, meaning you don't need to unpair to your previous device. However, this can be clunky because it will disconnect from my phone abruptly when I power on my laptop, unless I turn off Bluetooth.
- Gaming mode does decrease latency and is comparable with Bluetooth on Windows 10, but on my Note 9 in-game performance suffers. The audio will also stretch/distort to keep up with the game. Newer devices might fare better.
- Great touch controls. If you want to use ambient sound/assistant while still having volume controls you can enable tap-edge volume. This was a bit unresponsive at first but seems to work more consistently over time.
- Decent fit but my ears sometimes get rather itchy which is something I don't notice often with other TWS. Large tips have the most reliable seal while medium tips are more comfortable, but my right ear seems more loose with them. Standard-type IEM tips don't fit in the charging case, while wide-bore tips with a larger flange work just fine. I also find the large wings/fins to be a tad irritating and don't help too much with letting them stay in place.
- For general use the battery can last between 3-5 days, which is in line with most of my previous TWS. The case discharges quite fast depleted by the end of the first day if you are using them heavily. With my usage (high volume and ambient sound I believe I get around 15-18 hours of battery life before having to charge. Sometimes the right bud drains more (5-10%) than the left although each can remain at 1% for quite some time before they die out. There is an intermittent double-beep when one bud goes below 10% (annoying but far less intrusive than the BATTRY LOW warning other TWS I've tried).
- Case feels cheap for the price. Hinge creaks and squeaks a fair bit when opening and closing, but stays open (apparently the earlier runs had looser lids).
- Ambient sound volume dips after exposure to loud noise. It might be meant to be adaptive but after some time I can't hear my piano playing very clearly, unless I use the extra high setting. Compared to Jabra 65t, it's more airy and less muffled. From what I recall, the Jabras were less sensitive to wind noise than the Buds+ though. It would have been nice if all modes had the internal mic working, as it is awkward to hear my own voice sound muffled except in extra high or if it is turned on during calls.


----------



## PopZeus

The MTW2 arrived today and I gave them a whirl for a few hours. They’re my first pair of true wireless earbuds. They sound pretty great! Sure, they don’t compete with wired, but they’re a fun, engaging listen for on-the-go. After some time, I started to get that feeling of the earbuds disappearing on my head. The only thing about them I don’t love (other than the pairing method) is that treble peak. So I EQ it out with my music player app and I’m all set.


----------



## trivik12

Is anyone using Haylou GT1 plus with iphone(i have iphone 11). I tried pairing with steps put in for GT1(reset and then pair buds 1st on stereo mode and then connect phone to right bud). I am able to hearing audio only on right bud though I am able to pause by clicking on left side.


----------



## Caipirina

FYLegend said:


> Another TWS from YOBYBO (who had released the "thinnest" TWS a while back). This one is in-ear and fortunately doesn't have stems. AIROHA 1532  chip, no telling of price except registering for "39% off". Unfortunately I had read they said the battery is 4-5 hours.
> https://comingsoon.higizmos.com/not...SZnTaM857uuoRa4ldd5zfPnTJe98RjuLb4MFQBP0NzLg0



Like their sense of humor ...


----------



## Toom

Have the Senn MTW2 arriving tomorrow. Keen to see how they stack up next to the first gen.


----------



## webvan

clerkpalmer said:


> Received my MTW2 today.  This is a nice upgrade.  The slightly smaller size is immediately noticeable and welcome.  It's not a huge difference but comfort is definitely improved.  SQ is excellent as expected.  I haven't had the old ones in a while but to my ears, they've toned down the bass which was needed.  With the first gen, I had to move the dot up and right to tame it a bit but these sound awesome on the flat setting.  Still wish they would just use a normal EQ.  3 taps on the right and ANC is activated.  Haven't tried it out in a noisy environment but it seems to be strong ANC.  I'm gonna give them a run on the trainer tonight with a fan and noise and will report back.  $300 is pricey but considering they are only $50 more than APP, its well worth it if SQ is important to you.  I still slightly prefer the overall SQ of the MW07 but the ANC is weak sauce and the fit remains fussy for me so they are off to the classifieds.  By the way, these are all around much better than the Sonys in terms of SQ, fit and the fact that they are IP rated.  I know the Sony's cost less and can be found for dirt cheap refurbished but the fit is horrific and no sweat proofing is a deal breaker.



Not sure about ANC with a fan running (except in the background) because the wind will be picked up by the ANC mics. Seen that problem with the Sony, Echodubs, Libratone and even QC35. On the home trainer with a fan runnin I pull out the T1X to avoid that problem and the wings help keep them in place although they still need to be readjusted from time to time.

Vaguely tempted to pick up the MTW2 since Amazon have them in Europe...


----------



## martiniCZ

Bad news, KZ changed specs - S2 will use Realtek 8763, so without aptx or ANC = pass for me 
https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/kz-s2-next-generation-hybrid-tws-in-ear-monitors/coming_soon

Also anounced KZ-Z1 with 2 DD (10 + 7 mm), but without other specification.


----------



## axhng

trivik12 said:


> Is anyone using Haylou GT1 plus with iphone(i have iphone 11). I tried pairing with steps put in for GT1(reset and then pair buds 1st on stereo mode and then connect phone to right bud). I am able to hearing audio only on right bud though I am able to pause by clicking on left side.



Maybe you can try resetting the buds? (take them out and long press it till the LED blinks) Put them back in the case, then take both out together and pair it normally? (just click the "haylou GT1 Plus" on your iPhone. IIRC that should be it? I use it with my iPhone 11 from time to time and i've encountered what you were talking about once. Just re-paired it and it was fine.


----------



## axhng

martiniCZ said:


> Bad news, KZ changed specs - S2 will use Realtek 8763, so without aptx or ANC = pass for me
> https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/kz-s2-next-generation-hybrid-tws-in-ear-monitors/coming_soon
> 
> Also anounced KZ-Z1 with 2 DD (10 + 7 mm), but without other specification.



A pure DD setup could be kinda interesting. For me maybe the lack of aptX probably not a big deal at this price range (or if you use iOS), but a bummer for sure with the change in chipset, especially for Android users. ANC probably not quite possible looking at the Indiegogo early bird price of 29USD.


----------



## BigZ12

Ok... Airpods Pro owners, you have to hear this:

I bought my APPs 17th of Nov, delivered with 2B576. Almost instantly updated to 2B584, then 2B588 a little later.
In Desember I got the 2C54 update. Almost 4 months ago. This firmware got pulled just a couple of days after. Since that, no info or new update. 

Early I noticed:
- Noticably less bass with ANC/Transparency mode turned OFF.
- "High frequency warble" with ANC ON
- Distortion (especially in the left bud) when talking on the phone with ANC/Transparency ON
- ANC noticably weaker
- Just yellow (Adjust or try a different ear tip) with the Ear tip fit test

I have talked to Apple a couple of times, and finally I was offered a replacement solution. Had to "pay" (reserved on my account) about $200, which I get back when they have received the old ones.

Received the replacements today, with firmware 2B588, and OMG!
Ear fit test is green, ANC is better, sound is better, more bass and even bass with ANC OFF is good, no distortion from my own voice with phone calls.

I still experience the "high freq. warble" with movements (either walking or chewing for ex), but I think that is because with the silicone tips are moving a little in my ears. And then the adaptive eq in the buds are making this warble?! Hopefully the Comply Foam tips will help for this, when they are released.

This is embarrasing for Apple! Almost 4 months since the 2C54 ruined my (and I guess a lot of others') APPs.

Any other in here with similar experiences?


----------



## tma6

MTW2 arriving today! Will test for a few days and do a full review. I’m hype!


----------



## russmarch

BigZ12 said:


> Ok... Airpods Pro owners, you have to hear this:
> 
> I bought my APPs 17th of Nov, delivered with 2B576. Almost instantly updated to 2B584, then 2B588 a little later.
> In Desember I got the 2C54 update. Almost 4 months ago. This firmware got pulled just a couple of days after. Since that, no info or new update.
> ...


IMO Apple like Microsoft doesn't really worry about little day to day things like products that work. They have so many people that will buy it and hype it regardless of its actual value, that their profit margins rarely suffer.


----------



## vladzakhar

tma6 said:


> MTW2 arriving today! Will test for a few days and do a full review. I’m hype!


I just got mine. In the process of evaluating while running the update for 50 min. ANC is good, not Sony over the ear good though.


----------



## TheLionelHutz

martiniCZ said:


> Bad news, KZ changed specs - S2 will use Realtek 8763, so without aptx or ANC = pass for me
> https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/kz-s2-next-generation-hybrid-tws-in-ear-monitors/coming_soon
> 
> Also anounced KZ-Z1 with 2 DD (10 + 7 mm), but without other specification.


Well that sucks, off my list. No aptX=no go. 

I'll track that Z1, though. I'm all about multiple drivers. Hopefully they don't make the same boneheaded choice for chipset, though.


----------



## TheLionelHutz

axhng said:


> A pure DD setup could be kinda interesting. For me maybe the lack of aptX probably not a big deal at this price range (or if you use iOS), but a bummer for sure with the change in chipset, especially for Android users. ANC probably not quite possible looking at the Indiegogo early bird price of 29USD.


"No sense of delay"?  Low-latency?


----------



## Luke Skywalker

russmarch said:


> So this is probably a dumb question but I live in non urban United states. Are there any places where you can demo items. We just have them behind glass glued to a plastic board. There are no high end audio shops here.


Bummer dude... I have the same issue.  I found a high end sound place with nice headphones which is where I listened to and bought my Audeze's.  But they didn't have a single pair of IEM's, let alone something like JH Audio or Elysiums


----------



## Caipirina

BigZ12 said:


> Ok... Airpods Pro owners, you have to hear this:
> 
> I bought my APPs 17th of Nov, delivered with 2B576. Almost instantly updated to 2B584, then 2B588 a little later.
> In Desember I got the 2C54 update. Almost 4 months ago. This firmware got pulled just a couple of days after. Since that, no info or new update.
> ...


I also kept looking around if / when we will get a new FW update and so far nada ... 

to be honest, I did not really notice any change until I read about the issue ... sure enough, now i 'think' i hear the difference ... 

to play devil's advocate a bit ... here an interesting article from Forbes on the issue


----------



## martiniCZ

TheLionelHutz said:


> "No sense of delay"?  Low-latency?


huge production = no sense of delay with shipment


----------



## BigZ12 (Apr 3, 2020)

Caipirina said:


> I also kept looking around if / when we will get a new FW update and so far nada ...
> 
> to be honest, I did not really notice any change until I read about the issue ... sure enough, now i 'think' i hear the difference ...
> 
> to play devil's advocate a bit ... here an interesting article from Forbes on the issue


Well I didn't imagine yellow ear tip fit test, almost 50% less bass with ANC off, distortion in left bud with phone calls and that the new ones got more bass overall... maybe the difference in ANC is more difficult to compare from version to version. My first impression when connecting the replacements with 2B588 was that the ANC is better with these.
Anyway, I'm 100% sure that the 2C54 firmware ruined my APPs, and am happy I got new ones. Now I just hope my deposit of $200 will be paid back in full 

On a side note, I tried my cheap foam tips I got from Ebay and the (so called) high frequency warble is being noticably limited. Almost completely gone. Sadly they are just a tad too small for my ears, so I have to wiggle them a little in place to get a good seal. (ref. both good bass and green ear tip fit test)


----------



## TheLionelHutz

martiniCZ said:


> huge production = no sense of delay with shipment


I wondered if that "huge production" was a Chinglish thing and maybe they meant the sound. But your explanation also makes sense.


----------



## Caipirina

axhng said:


> A pure DD setup could be kinda interesting. For me maybe the lack of aptX probably not a big deal at this price range (or if you use iOS), but a bummer for sure with the change in chipset, especially for Android users. ANC probably not quite possible looking at the Indiegogo early bird price of 29USD.


Wow, some intrepid AE sellers already took the above image as inspiration on how to make people look / sell more of the S1 
Sure made ME look!


----------



## sjino

martiniCZ said:


> Bad news, KZ changed specs - S2 will use Realtek 8763, so without aptx or ANC = pass for me
> https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/kz-s2-next-generation-hybrid-tws-in-ear-monitors/coming_soon
> 
> Also anounced KZ-Z1 with 2 DD (10 + 7 mm), but without other specification.



Wow, what would I do without this group? Had KZ S1 on order but cancelled when I heard the S2 is coming out. Now in light of the Realtek 8763 I think I'll hold off on the S2 instead of doing the early bird pre-order. 

Also very interested in the Z1 with 2DD.

Thanks!


----------



## koven

Fresh off the truck, about to try them out.


----------



## axhng

TheLionelHutz said:


> "No sense of delay"?  Low-latency?



That could mean the use of the same realtek chip actually since QC chips like QCC3020 wont have low latency mode.


----------



## DigDub

Got the mifo o7. 











Crystal clear sound. Bass is armature lean and quick, definitely not for bass head.


----------



## chinmie

DigDub said:


> Got the mifo o7.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Hmmm.... could be my kind of sound..
Does it clip or rattle with high volume? That is the only problem reported by some reviewers that got me wary of buying


----------



## McCol

chinmie said:


> Hmmm.... could be my kind of sound..
> Does it clip or rattle with high volume? That is the only problem reported by some reviewers that got me wary of buying


I sent my Mifo back, I found them very lean in the bass, not just lean but anaemic.  Also found them lacking in depth compared to say the Melomenia M1.


----------



## DigDub (Apr 4, 2020)

chinmie said:


> Hmmm.... could be my kind of sound..
> Does it clip or rattle with high volume? That is the only problem reported by some reviewers that got me wary of buying


I tried turning up to an uncomfortable volume level and the sound does not rattle or break up.

If you like armature driver sound signature, you will like the mifo o7.


----------



## chinmie

DigDub said:


> I tried turning up to an uncomfortable volume level and the sound does not rattle or break up.
> 
> If you like armature driver sound signature, you will like the mifo o7.



Unlike most others, i prefer BAs for bass and dynamic drivers for treble


----------



## RobinFood

BA bass is awesome, super quick and unintrusive. A lot of dynamic drivers these days are almost matching them for speed.

The aonic215 just got released yesterday. I don't know why but I keep wanting to buy it. Something about the old legend of the se215, knowing how amazing that passive isolation is, and the kicker being that they have hear though.

I also really like they sound of the 535 if I want to upgrade in the future, and a lot of companies make custom sleeves for Shure buds here in Japan for cheap. 

The only thing stopping me really is the reports of cut outs in early reviews, I don't think I could handle random disconnects in low radio environnements.


----------



## axhng

not exactly fully wireless. had an old KZ BT (aptx hd) adapter i bought for the ZSN Pro/ZS10 Pro/ZSX, decided to try cutting out part of the plastic on the adapter's 2pin connector so that i can plug the blons in.


----------



## BigZ12

I am struggling a bit to find the best tips for the MTW2.
What are you guys using?

With JVC Spiral Dots, bass, details and male voices are very good. But some female vocals and high notes can be a little harsh.
The Comply Audio Pro w/smart core have smoother highs but maybe a bit "boomy" and I feel they can get a little muddy? (and they are a tiny bit big for the case)
Spinfits (CP100Z and CP350Z) are pretty similar to JVC, but marginally less bass.
The Flexfit foam that were included with the Lypertek Tevi are like always lacking bass, but a little smoother highs.
Symbio are also a little harsh.
The original one that were mounted, were to small for my ears, and I haven't tried other sizes yet (don't like to use the originals in case I will sell the buds later)

Don't get me wrong, it's not that bad, but I would love a mix of the Spiral Dots and the Comply Audio Pro.  It's ok to be a little picky with buds priced at $300? 

Guess I will try the Comply Truegrip designed for the MTW, guess they fit the MTW2 too. (and just when writing this, I googled them and Comply has now labeled them TrueGrip Pro for Senn' MTW 1&2  )


----------



## DigDub

Fitted some spinfit cp350 tips onto the mifo o7 and the sound has opened up further, more spacious sounding and a tad more mid bass. The case can also close with the spinfit cp350 tips fitted.


----------



## voicemaster

axhng said:


> not exactly fully wireless. had an old KZ BT (aptx hd) adapter i bought for the ZSN Pro/ZS10 Pro/ZSX, decided to try cutting out part of the plastic on the adapter's 2pin connector so that i can plug the blons in.


I think KZ bluetooth cable sounds great (AptX HD), only two things I wish rhey change from their design tho. First is they should make it so the two (1 for battery and the other the bluetooth module) to not dangling around when in used. The other is their bluetooth antenna, it is such a shame that something so good has so weak of signal. Try to cup the bluetooth module and you will hear the sound is cutting. Other than that, it is great.


----------



## webvan

Caipirina said:


> This guy (reviewer I've come across for the first time) likes the Edifier TWS NB better than the SL2P ... can't add much myself since I have not heard either, but my edifiers are in the mail and were 96$. Might be worth a look into.




So have you received them ? I just noticed they were available on Amazon in Europe for 100€ which is really cheap for apparently decent ANC. Seems more "reasonable" to give them a shot rather than to the 300€ Sennheiser TWS 2 !


----------



## russmarch

My wife accidentally ordered comply for the mtw1 I bought but it came with tech defender debris guard. Wondering if anyone here can speak to how that alters sound. I thought I read something about making the sound muddy but I do not have any others to compare it to. If I cut that sheathe out, might it ruin then entirely?


----------



## Caipirina

webvan said:


> So have you received them ? I just noticed they were available on Amazon in Europe for 100€ which is really cheap for apparently decent ANC. Seems more "reasonable" to give them a shot rather than to the 300€ Sennheiser TWS 2 !


Still in mail. I am not expecting to receive anything anytime soon. Thanks to Covid19 they shut down local post delivery and no idea what’s going on with international mail. None of my TWS in mail (ordered as far back as 2/23) even show as ‘arrived in country’. They must be sitting in mail bags somewhere. And there’s now a new import ban but it is unclear if that affects private/personal mail ordering. Good times.


----------



## vladzakhar

BigZ12 said:


> I am struggling a bit to find the best tips for the MTW2.
> What are you guys using?
> 
> With JVC Spiral Dots, bass, details and male voices are very good. But some female vocals and high notes can be a little harsh.
> ...


I use these https://www.mtmtaudio.com/products/acoustune-aet07-eartip and their are perfect for me.


----------



## mikp

voicemaster said:


> I think KZ bluetooth cable sounds great (AptX HD), only two things I wish rhey change from their design tho. First is they should make it so the two (1 for battery and the other the bluetooth module) to not dangling around when in used. The other is their bluetooth antenna, it is such a shame that something so good has so weak of signal. Try to cup the bluetooth module and you will hear the sound is cutting. Other than that, it is great.



I thing the BQEYZ Z3 are better than the kz, not those silly long cables and fit better around the ears.


----------



## webvan

Caipirina said:


> Still in mail. I am not expecting to receive anything anytime soon. Thanks to Covid19 they shut down local post delivery and no idea what’s going on with international mail. None of my TWS in mail (ordered as far back as 2/23) even show as ‘arrived in country’. They must be sitting in mail bags somewhere. And there’s now a new import ban but it is unclear if that affects private/personal mail ordering. Good times.



Sorry to hear that, stuff still arrives in the mail here from Amazon at least, can you still run ? 1 hour, 1km max from home here, better than nothing !


----------



## axhng

voicemaster said:


> I think KZ bluetooth cable sounds great (AptX HD), only two things I wish rhey change from their design tho. First is they should make it so the two (1 for battery and the other the bluetooth module) to not dangling around when in used. The other is their bluetooth antenna, it is such a shame that something so good has so weak of signal. Try to cup the bluetooth module and you will hear the sound is cutting. Other than that, it is great.



Yeah, that was why I pretty much almost never use those adapters. It sounds nice, but the dangling wires are really annoying to me, and the reception is kinda meh.


----------



## Caipirina

webvan said:


> Sorry to hear that, stuff still arrives in the mail here from Amazon at least, can you still run ? 1 hour, 1km max from home here, better than nothing !


Did a 1h52min treadmill HM yesterday ... but we have been under curfew / lockdown (they are not very clear with the definition here, but we are not allowed to leave the house, unless a food supply van shows up in our street) for 15 days now ... it suuuuucks!!!    
but I also get to listen to a lot of music ... have my few other TWS to keep me busy


----------



## axhng

Got these about a day ago. Trying to give it more time before I say anything more about it.


----------



## webvan

Caipirina said:


> Did a 1h52min treadmill HM yesterday ... but we have been under curfew / lockdown (they are not very clear with the definition here, but we are not allowed to leave the house, unless a food supply van shows up in our street) for 15 days now ... it suuuuucks!!!
> but I also get to listen to a lot of music ... have my few other TWS to keep me busy


Good you have a TM, actually I can't use my TWS when running anymore because I have to run in the street (in a quiet suburb) as opposed to a bike track usually and while there is very little traffic I don't want to take any risks. I'm not going to complain


----------



## Toom

Just got my Senn MTW2s and have a stupid question - how do you know if you are listening with ANC on or off? I get how to activate it, and deactivate using the three taps, but there's no verbal notification to tell you which mode you are switching into - on or off.


----------



## webvan

Play some loud cabin noise from YouTube and hopefully you'll hear a difference


----------



## Toom

webvan said:


> Play some loud cabin noise from YouTube and hopefully you'll hear a difference



Ha. There must be a more elegant solution.


----------



## voicemaster

axhng said:


> Yeah, that was why I pretty much almost never use those adapters. It sounds nice, but the dangling wires are really annoying to me, and the reception is kinda meh.


You could try trn bt20s. No cable dangling. Tho no Aptx HD yet.


----------



## Caipirina

axhng said:


> Got these about a day ago. Trying to give it more time before I say anything more about it.


S2? You have other KZ tws to compare? T1or E10 or the S1? 
And HOW did you get them already???


----------



## axhng

voicemaster said:


> You could try trn bt20s. No cable dangling. Tho no Aptx HD yet.



sadly not a huge fan of how something like the BT20s or UTWS1 works. My main use of TWS is while jogging and I sweat a lot. those will probably break in a few days. lol.


----------



## jant71

axhng said:


> Got these about a day ago. Trying to give it more time before I say anything more about it.



Is the S2 button control or still touch??


----------



## axhng (Apr 4, 2020)

Caipirina said:


> S2? You have other KZ tws to compare? T1or E10 or the S1?
> And HOW did you get them already???



Yeah. linsoul sent them early for review. Was able to confirm that what I'm getting is the final retail version. I had the T1 and S1, but I gave those away already since I don't use them much. So I can only compare those based on memory, and these sounds nicer to me. Previously I found the S1's mids to be a bit recessed and a tad thin sounding, and the treble sounds a little harsher at higher volume. So far seems like the S2 improved on those areas. The treble sounds a little less steely too IIRC. I know human memory isn't exactly infallible, but i remember when i heard the S1 and thinking that the treble sounded a bit steely, but not so much with the S2.



jant71 said:


> Is the S2 button control or still touch??



still touch controls, and exactly the same as the S1. No volume controls. :/


----------



## voicemaster

axhng said:


> sadly not a huge fan of how something like the BT20s or UTWS1 works. My main use of TWS is while jogging and I sweat a lot. those will probably break in a few days. lol.


I don't know what kind of jogging you do, but bt20s is very very secure, even more so than regular style tws, on par with tws like powerbeats pro. Unless you do an MMA type of training with wrestling, choking and grappling. It also has waterproof coating (for the bt20s modules), tho your iems are probably not waterproof.


----------



## axhng

voicemaster said:


> I don't know what kind of jogging you do, but bt20s is very very secure, even more so than regular style tws, on par with tws like powerbeats pro. Unless you do an MMA type of training with wrestling, choking and grappling. It also has waterproof coating (for the bt20s modules), tho your iems are probably not waterproof.



haha. just regular jogging, just that i sweat a lot more than regular folks (especially in singapore's weather), and I'm already wearing glass with ear hooks, which makes it even more uncomfortable. before TWS i was using neckbuds like Jaybird Bluebuds. Even though those were rated sweat proof, they died after a couple of months of use. Mostly it's the volume control that gets sweat damage since it's behind my ears. I bought the X2 thinking it would be better, but after replacing it once under warranty after it died after a couple of months, and having the replacement die again after a few months, I gave up. On the bright side, their customer service was great, and they ended up just offering a refund. Tried Samsung's level active, and same thing. So far because sweat doesn't really flow into my ears, I'm not worried about the IEMs being water damage, but not quite willing to just keep replacing those bluetooth adapters, which costs more than some TWS earbuds. So far TWS has been rock solid for me and I have not had any break down on me since i switch to using the some years back.


----------



## cleg

Caipirina said:


> and i guess you don't have that static noise on the right bud when ANC is on?
> I am supposed to get a replacement pair, but the way that postal services are going now, that will take forever ...


 Yes, I got no noise


----------



## Caipirina

Toom said:


> Ha. There must be a more elegant solution.


Vacuum cleaner, washing machine, hair dryer       though I actually like the YT idea best (there's lots of white noise / sleep noise stuff out there)


----------



## Caipirina

axhng said:


> haha. just regular jogging, just that i sweat a lot more than regular folks (especially in singapore's weather), and I'm already wearing glass with ear hooks, which makes it even more uncomfortable. before TWS i was using neckbuds like Jaybird Bluebuds. Even though those were rated sweat proof, they died after a couple of months of use. Mostly it's the volume control that gets sweat damage since it's behind my ears. I bought the X2 thinking it would be better, but after replacing it once under warranty after it died after a couple of months, and having the replacement die again after a few months, I gave up. On the bright side, their customer service was great, and they ended up just offering a refund. Tried Samsung's level active, and same thing. So far because sweat doesn't really flow into my ears, I'm not worried about the IEMs being water damage, but not quite willing to just keep replacing those bluetooth adapters, which costs more than some TWS earbuds. So far TWS has been rock solid for me and I have not had any break down on me since i switch to using the some years back.



Sweet, sweet Singapore equatorial steam bath weather! 
Did my first marathon there, which was goin ok, until the sun came up  
Ended up using something from the Sony WS6100 series, since they are beyond sweatproof 
(you can swim in salt water with them) ... and they have their own player built in  

One of the few races I know that actually still allows use of earphones!


----------



## Caipirina

webvan said:


> Good you have a TM, actually I can't use my TWS when running anymore because I have to run in the street (in a quiet suburb) as opposed to a bike track usually and while there is very little traffic I don't want to take any risks. I'm not going to complain


But the Sabbath X12 have such limited passive noise canceling, you should still be safe enough to run with them. Especially ‘quiet neighborhood’. I was always hoping for some Bose level ANC run buds to really drown it all out. My usual (non curfew) run route has busy car traffic on one side and trains on the other!!!


----------



## dhc0329

There are so many TWS earbuds. What is the best sounding earbud regardless of price range in current market, if anyone care to share?
Not asking for best value but just the pure sound quality.


----------



## jant71

https://www.pocket-lint.com/headphones/reviews/151678-shure-aonic-215-review-true-wireless
Discuss


----------



## Spidermanxd

dhc0329 said:


> There are so many TWS earbuds. What is the best sounding earbud regardless of price range in current market, if anyone care to share?
> Not asking for best value but just the pure sound quality.


Sony wf-1000xm3 and the new SENNHEISER 2


----------



## Spidermanxd

jant71 said:


> https://www.pocket-lint.com/headphones/reviews/151678-shure-aonic-215-review-true-wireless
> Discuss



Fiio new LC-BT2, bt support all code dec, get 24hrs, available for mmcx and 2 pins iem, i think this is the best now


----------



## RobinFood

chinmie said:


> Unlike most others, i prefer BAs for bass and dynamic drivers for treble





jant71 said:


> https://www.pocket-lint.com/headphones/reviews/151678-shure-aonic-215-review-true-wireless
> Discuss



They look really interesting. The addition of the case and the ambient mode make it seem perfect. Shure buds isolate really well and are extremely comfortable. I wouldn't be surprised that they work better than anc buds in certain contexts, like drowning chatter.

I am really worried about the minor connectivity issues though at that price. I also don't understand why they went through all the trouble of making a case and didn't include some auto on feature, it seems like the easy part of you have a charging case with a battery.


----------



## jant71

Spidermanxd said:


> Fiio new LC-BT2, bt support all code dec, get 24hrs, available for mmcx and 2 pins iem, i think this is the best now



Dude, you are way off on the form factor of the thread. Your adding both wires and a neckband!


----------



## dhc0329

Spidermanxd said:


> Sony wf-1000xm3 and the new SENNHEISER 2



Thanks for the info. I was actually looking at the NUARL N6 Pro but will read more about them.


----------



## jant71 (Apr 4, 2020)

dhc0329 said:


> Thanks for the info. I was actually looking at the NUARL N6 Pro but will read more about them.



Not gonna find an absolute best. Some will say "A" is better than "B". Some will say "B" is better than "A". You'll get a group of a few with the Nuarl, Sony, Senn, LP2, and a couple of others. Only a couple but some like the BGVP Q2 as the best sound. One or two like the Geekfly GF8 as better than the Sony and Senn. New Technics coming in April perhaps that will be in the running as well. Outside chance the AKG N400 will be a good one. There might be something to the multi-driver Newmine Chi-Fi models but no real impressions here as of yet.

Some also like the Shure, Fiio, TRN, Fostex style that you can plug your choice of high quality earphones into. The first real review of the Shure favor it over the Sennheiser.

You got some research to do! but it is becoming a good time for true wireless SQ.


----------



## Darkestred

jant71 said:


> Not gonna find an absolute best. Some will say "A" is better than "B". Some will say "B" is better than "A". You'll get a group of a few with the Nuarl, Sony, Senn, LP2, and a couple of others. Only a couple but some like the BGVP Q2 as the best sound. One or two like the Geekfly GF8 as better than the Sony and Senn. New Technics coming in April perhaps that will be in the running as well. Outside chance the AKG N400 will be a good one. There might be something to the multi-driver Newmine Chi-Fi models but no real impressions here as of yet.
> 
> Some also like the Shure, Fiio, TRN, Fostex style that you can plug your choice of high quality earphones into. The first real review of the Shure favor it over the Sennheiser.
> 
> You got some research to do! but it is becoming a good time for true wireless SQ.



I was intersted in the WFs for when i watch movies on the Shield. The only thing is i read a lot about fit issues. I have the L2p which share a similar design and those fit well. Can anyone comment on the fit?


----------



## Caipirina

jant71 said:


> You got some research to do! but it is becoming a good time for true wireless SQ.


This ... or like what some people do here, they might get a second ... or even third set of TWS


----------



## DigDub

Was digging around some of my other tws buds and found a pair of sleeves which can fit the mifo o7 buds and allows the charging case to be closed. The sound is now more organic with very good imaging and more bass but without the bass slam of dynamic drivers. Excellent!


----------



## IEManiac

What are the best sounding *IPX7* BT buds for LITPO (lounging in-the-pool)?


----------



## DigDub

Comparison of mifo o7 and airpod pro case size.


----------



## BigZ12

IEManiac said:


> What are the best sounding *IPX7* BT buds for LITPO (lounging in-the-pool)?


Lypertek Tevi.


----------



## bronco1015

RobinFood said:


> BA bass is awesome, super quick and unintrusive. A lot of dynamic drivers these days are almost matching them for speed.
> 
> The aonic215 just got released yesterday. I don't know why but I keep wanting to buy it. Something about the old legend of the se215, knowing how amazing that passive isolation is, and the kicker being that they have hear though.
> 
> ...


I never really like the sound of the 215 that much, but i just on a complete whim purchased the Aonic  50 headphones and by default they have a nice clear though sharp at times, sound to them. A good amount of bass but definitely leaning toward flat. If these twes resemble the headphones at all, then i think a lot of BA fans especially would like them. I was actually thinking about that a few hours ago before i even hopped on here for the day. one thing that really is a miss on Shure's part imo is that the EQ only works for both Aonic models for locally stored songs. You download their app and it pulls in whatever local files you have and the music has to be played through it. Really asinine. Someone needs to be slapped for shure.


----------



## assassin10000

IEManiac said:


> What are the best sounding *IPX7* BT buds for LITPO (lounging in-the-pool)?



I like the Air-XR's. I personally rank them above the LP2's.

The LP2 is good, but a bit too mid-bassy imo. It needs EQ to sound good. The fit and battery life also aren't as good.


----------



## Gu1b0

I have an "old" Ak70 first gen.
I'm using it with the Westone W40, with balanced cable

I'm looking for wireless iem for the AK70, with the same quality as W40.

Too soon?


----------



## thimantha

Toom said:


> Just got my Senn MTW2s and have a stupid question - how do you know if you are listening with ANC on or off? I get how to activate it, and deactivate using the three taps, but there's no verbal notification to tell you which mode you are switching into - on or off.



From the app?


----------



## chinmie

RobinFood said:


> They look really interesting. The addition of the case and the ambient mode make it seem perfect. Shure buds isolate really well and are extremely comfortable. I wouldn't be surprised that they work better than anc buds in certain contexts, like drowning chatter.
> 
> I am really worried about the minor connectivity issues though at that price. I also don't understand why they went through all the trouble of making a case and didn't include some auto on feature, it seems like the easy part of you have a charging case with a battery.



the charging case is nice, but the form factor and the versatility (mmcx only if I'm not mistaken?) I'd personally would settle for the cheaper Fiio/TRN, or add more for the Fostex


----------



## TooFrank

jant71 said:


> Not gonna find an absolute best. Some will say "A" is better than "B". Some will say "B" is better than "A". You'll get a group of a few with the Nuarl, Sony, Senn, LP2, and a couple of others. Only a couple but some like the BGVP Q2 as the best sound. One or two like the Geekfly GF8 as better than the Sony and Senn. New Technics coming in April perhaps that will be in the running as well. Outside chance the AKG N400 will be a good one. There might be something to the multi-driver Newmine Chi-Fi models but no real impressions here as of yet.
> 
> Some also like the Shure, Fiio, TRN, Fostex style that you can plug your choice of high quality earphones into. The first real review of the Shure favor it over the Sennheiser.
> 
> You got some research to do! but it is becoming a good time for true wireless SQ.


FWIW: I would suggest to add B&O E8 3rd generation. To my ears they sound better/clearer than the Sony*s, but it is really important using the right tips. I am using the Comply Truegrip, which also perfect for the Sony’s.....


----------



## Toom

thimantha said:


> From the app?



Where?


----------



## jant71

bronco1015 said:


> I never really like the sound of the 215 that much, but i just on a complete whim purchased the Aonic  50 headphones and by default they have a nice clear though sharp at times, sound to them. A good amount of bass but definitely leaning toward flat. If these twes resemble the headphones at all, then i think a lot of BA fans especially would like them. I was actually thinking about that a few hours ago before i even hopped on here for the day. one thing that really is a miss on Shure's part imo is that the EQ only works for both Aonic models for locally stored songs. You download their app and it pulls in whatever local files you have and the music has to be played through it. Really asinine. Someone needs to be slapped for shure.



Yes, clear and Sharp is not quite the SE215 so if they didn't change the earphones it would be good to know what sound they impart to the earphones and the EQ options etc. There do seem to be quite a few quibbles with the possible connection issue, and no VC, and your mention, and the case/turning on being more a hassle than it needs to be.




TooFrank said:


> FWIW: I would suggest to add B&O E8 3rd generation. To my ears they sound better/clearer than the Sony*s, but it is really important using the right tips. I am using the Comply Truegrip, which also perfect for the Sony’s.....


Yeah, I know. Mifo 07, B&O, MW07, Mavin, etc. There is quite a list of stuff people put forth as candidates for top level TW sound. Gets to be a long read 



Caipirina said:


> This ... or like what some people do here, they might get a second ... or even third set of TWS



Which just means more searching and reading most likely since you can't stop after the first choice. Not that we do stop reading up and checking out and doing "homework" Speaking of, looking at the new Sony and this is interesting...




"A Bluetooth chip that transmits sound to left and right ears simultaneously, coupled with optimized antenna design, ensures a stable connection and outstanding listening. Low audio latency makes for enjoyable video viewing too."

Just how are they doing that? No caveats/footnotes about needing certain TWS enabled devices. Not sure what chip(Airoha probably) or exactly how it is accomplished.

The new Sony, after some homework, are a Class 1 BT device and have 12mm drivers. Early street price is $128 shipped. They don't look half bad.


----------



## SilverEars

jant71 said:


> Yes, clear and Sharp is not quite the SE215 so if they didn't change the earphones it would be good to know what sound they impart to the earphones and the EQ options etc. There do seem to be quite a few quibbles with the possible connection issue, and no VC, and your mention, and the case/turning on being more a hassle than it needs to be.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I'm sorry, B&O and MW07 with peaky emphasized treble doesn't qualify as top level sound.


----------



## Caipirina

jant71 said:


> The new Sony, after some homework, are a Class 1 BT device and have 12mm drivers. Early street price is $128 shipped. They don't look half bad.



I am kinda curious about them as well even though they don't have any of the current bells & whistles (ANC, AptX?) ... 
they look nice and hey, XB, which we all know means 'ex Borg' 

Might have to wait a while until I can try them .. there's still hope that by summer flying back to EU is a viable option and I can play with amazon.de for a few weeks


----------



## BobJS

SilverEars said:


> I'm sorry, B&O and MW07 with peaky emphasized treble doesn't qualify as top level sound.



Agree to disagree.  I have yet to hear a wireless I prefer to MW07+


----------



## jant71

SilverEars said:


> I'm sorry, B&O and MW07 with peaky emphasized treble doesn't qualify as top level sound.





BobJS said:


> Agree to disagree.  I have yet to hear a wireless I prefer to MW07+



I just mention what people put forth as options. Like I said, "A" over "B" and "B" over "A". Opinions do seem to differ. 



Caipirina said:


> I am kinda curious about them as well even though they don't have any of the current bells & whistles (ANC, AptX?) ...
> they look nice and hey, XB, which we all know means 'ex Borg'
> 
> Might have to wait a while until I can try them .. there's still hope that by summer flying back to EU is a viable option and I can play with amazon.de for a few weeks



Might try due to the current situation and having some more time on my hands. More interested if they are using their 12mm driver which is solid. Look like a good design for fit and to control with the button on the bottom and the antennas at the top. They look to be getting better with design and battery and we have adequate water resistance now.


----------



## tma6 (Apr 5, 2020)

Been using the MTW2s for a couple days now. First impressions are excellent for TWS as they should be for $300. Will def do a full review by end of next week with a detailed breakdown of everything. One thing I’ve been seeing around (not so much here but in reviews in general) is that these sound the same as the previous version. Not that they sound dramatically different, but they are not identical. From my memory the sound of the originals was warmer, the bass was enveloping and a bit bloated and boomy at times, with a rolled off but still pretty detailed treble. The MTW2s are tighter, cleaner, a little wider stage, and more balanced tonally overall in my experience. They have a slightly cooler upper range and have a crispness that I sometimes found lacking in the originals, but render certain tracks a little more analytical. They are not quite as warm and the bass is slightly more subdued than the originals, but I’ve used the built in EQ for a bit of a bass and mid range lift and these sound better and cleaner to my ears.

For the full review, I’ll be doing A - B testing with the Nuarl N6 Pros, L2Ps, original MW07s, Lypertek TEVIs, and Fiil T1Xs, as well as some wired stuff.


----------



## webvan

Some MTW2 reports are appearing on Amazon of "super weak sauce" ANC particularly compared to the APPs...which are not that great in the first place compared to the EchoBuds that remain the "best in class" isolation TWS courtesy of the Passive+ANR combo (based on my experience with the xm3s, APPs, Libratone TA+). Can anyone who owns the MTW2s and who has experience with the other ANC TWS comment on this ? Thanks !


----------



## 13gsc13 (Apr 5, 2020)

Looking forward to you comparing them to the ones you mentioned as I have the L2P and Fiil and really like both


----------



## tma6

webvan said:


> Some MTW2 reports are appearing on Amazon of "super weak sauce" ANC particularly compared to the APPs...which are not that great in the first place compared to the EchoBuds that remain the "best in class" isolation TWS courtesy of the Passive+ANR combo (based on my experience with the xm3s, APPs, Libratone TA+). Can anyone who owns the MTW2s and who has experience with the other ANC TWS comment on this ? Thanks !



Ive only used them for 2 days but so far they are very good for low frequency noises, even a little better I’d say than the AirPods Pro. But the APP do a little better with higher frequencies. ANC tech is still not fully developed yet for true wireless earbuds so it’s hard to have amazingly high expectations. All I can say is that the ANC actually makes a difference on the MTW2s, which is more than you can say for other ANC earbuds out right now.


----------



## jpguy

Which between Sony mx3 and L2P have better sound quality? 
I like bass and warmer sound and am a little bit treble sensitive, but also want them to be capable technically.


----------



## russmarch

tma6 said:


> Ive only used them for 2 days but so far they are very good for low frequency noises, even a little better I’d say than the AirPods Pro. But the APP do a little better with higher frequencies. ANC tech is still not fully developed yet for true wireless earbuds so it’s hard to have amazingly high expectations. All I can say is that the ANC actually makes a difference on the MTW2s, which is more than you can say for other ANC earbuds out right now.


Would you say the anc is better than the sony's?


----------



## tma6

russmarch said:


> Would you say the anc is better than the sony's?



I haven’t spent a lot of time w the Sony’s. Tried my friend’s for a couple days a while ago. From memory I’d say they’re pretty similar. Sony might’ve been better overall but the MTW2s do at least as good a job with low frequencies from what I remember. I’d say pretty similar, maybe the MTW2s are slightly less effective overall. I’m not the best source for this though bc I don’t have the sonys in hand for direct comparison.


----------



## russmarch

The 2nd hand sony's are getting near the $100 in some places and it felt like when they came out, they were the standard for anc. Personally ever review still said but for sound quality the mtw was still the king. My only anc are my b&o H9 and as stated, that isnt their strong point. Someone mentioned the b&o iems. Anybody have a take on those?


----------



## BigZ12 (Apr 5, 2020)

tma6 said:


> Been using the MTW2s for a couple days now. First impressions are excellent for TWS as they should be for $300. Will def do a full review by end of next week with a detailed breakdown of everything. One thing I’ve been seeing around (not so much here but in reviews in general) is that these sound the same as the previous version. Not that they sound dramatically different, but they are not identical. From my memory the sound of the originals was warmer, the bass was enveloping and a bit bloated and boomy at times, with a rolled off but still pretty detailed treble. The MTW2s are tighter, cleaner, a little wider stage, and more balanced tonally overall in my experience. They have a slightly cooler upper range and have a crispness that I sometimes found lacking in the originals, but render certain tracks a little more analytical. They are not quite as warm and the bass is slightly more subdued than the originals, but I’ve used the built in EQ for a bit of a bass and mid range lift and these sound better and cleaner to my ears.
> 
> For the full review, I’ll be doing A - B testing with the Nuarl N6 Pros, L2Ps, original MW07s, Lypertek TEVIs, and Fiil T1Xs, as well as some wired stuff.


I actually find the highs/treble a little too harsh with silicone tips.
When comparing with Lypertek, have you updated the Tevis? The new ones I got, updated with new firmware and app support, are way better in every way than the original ones I got.
I actually like the high mids (especially female vocals) better with the Tevis than with the MTW2s. I hope I'll get hold of a Comply Truegrip Pro for the Senns soon. Think they will subdue the harshness a little bit. (have the ones for Lypertek/Tozo/JBL on the Tevis... excellent fit and sound!!)


----------



## russmarch

I have only vaguely heard of the lyperteks as a value buy. Can anybody put them audio quality wise to other iems like the sony mtw2, etc?


----------



## Luke Skywalker

vladzakhar said:


> I use these https://www.mtmtaudio.com/products/acoustune-aet07-eartip and their are perfect for me.


I use these for my Lola’s and my N6 Pro’s. Amazing tips... only ones that stay in my ears


----------



## bronco1015

jant71 said:


> Yes, clear and Sharp is not quite the SE215 so if they didn't change the earphones it would be good to know what sound they impart to the earphones and the EQ options etc. There do seem to be quite a few quibbles with the possible connection issue, and no VC, and your mention, and the case/turning on being more a hassle than it needs to be.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I realized one thing i needed to clarify since clear and sharp is definitely not the 215's sound signature. The clear sharp describers are for when the Aonic 50 were in ANC mode.


----------



## Luke Skywalker

Spidermanxd said:


> Sony wf-1000xm3 and the new SENNHEISER 2


Hope you’re right on the Sony’s. Bought them for like $119 the other day off Amazon and they’re coming tomorrow


----------



## Luke Skywalker

dhc0329 said:


> Thanks for the info. I was actually looking at the NUARL N6 Pro but will read more about them.


I have the N6’s - pretty great sound... Not up there with expensive IEM’s obviously... still waiting for a true audiophile TWS!


----------



## russmarch

Luke Skywalker said:


> Hope you’re right on the Sony’s. Bought them for like $119 the other day off Amazon and they’re coming tomorrow


Definitely let us know your take. While they may not be the best sounding, at times the anc can be more important than the sound, I think. Oddly, I really like the overstated look of them. Did you go black or white?


----------



## Toom

tma6 said:


> Been using the MTW2s for a couple days now. First impressions are excellent for TWS as they should be for $300. Will def do a full review by end of next week with a detailed breakdown of everything. One thing I’ve been seeing around (not so much here but in reviews in general) is that these sound the same as the previous version. Not that they sound dramatically different, but they are not identical. From my memory the sound of the originals was warmer, the bass was enveloping and a bit bloated and boomy at times, with a rolled off but still pretty detailed treble. The MTW2s are tighter, cleaner, a little wider stage, and more balanced tonally overall in my experience. They have a slightly cooler upper range and have a crispness that I sometimes found lacking in the originals, but render certain tracks a little more analytical. They are not quite as warm and the bass is slightly more subdued than the originals, but I’ve used the built in EQ for a bit of a bass and mid range lift and these sound better and cleaner to my ears.
> 
> For the full review, I’ll be doing A - B testing with the Nuarl N6 Pros, L2Ps, original MW07s, Lypertek TEVIs, and Fiil T1Xs, as well as some wired stuff.



Can i ask same question i asked earlier - how can you tell if ANC is active on the MTW2s?


----------



## BigZ12 (Apr 5, 2020)

Toom said:


> Can i ask same question i asked earlier - how can you tell if ANC is active on the MTW2s?


You can see if it's on or off in the app.

You can tap the buds with a commando to toggle ANC on/off (standard is 1 tap on the right I believe, I changed it to double tap on the left). But the sound when tapping the ANC commando is the same whether it's on or off, so it's not possible to know that way. That must be a bug.


----------



## chinmie

Toom said:


> Can i ask same question i asked earlier - how can you tell if ANC is active on the MTW2s?



i don't have the MTW2, but based on my several ANC tws and headphones, the difference in ambient sound should be audiblr when toggling ANC on and off.
i happen to deactivate the voice prompt on my XM3 altogether because I'm already familiar with the difference of each modes


----------



## jasonb

russmarch said:


> I have only vaguely heard of the lyperteks as a value buy. Can anybody put them audio quality wise to other iems like the sony mtw2, etc?



I like the Lypertek Tevi better than the original Galaxy Buds, but I can't compare them to anything else.


----------



## Ultrainferno

Today we look at the Lypertek TEVI on Headfonia.
https://www.headfonia.com/lypertek-tevi-review/

A new recommended buy!


----------



## Peddler

russmarch said:


> I have only vaguely heard of the lyperteks as a value buy. Can anybody put them audio quality wise to other iems like the sony mtw2, etc?


I personally think that the Tevi's actually sound better in some ways than the Sony's - more detailed and certainly louder. I still tend to go to the Sony's most of the time because of the easy fit and their active noise cancelling. 

I would definitely recommend the Tevi's - they're excellent value for money.


----------



## FYLegend

I just saw MRKWD's review of the Tevis this morning and his biggest complaint is the audio hiss, not as bad as L2P but still worse than others:


Perhaps his hearing is more sensitive in that region. Not sure if the hissing is a fault of QCC3020 or something else, as I notice it on both my Sabbat E12 Ultra and Tronsmart Onyx Neo, the Tronsmart being considerably worse.

Seems like Samsung may release a TWS with a "bean" non-in-ear design later this year:
https://www.androidauthority.com/sa...v5jaeJy2hnL96nFR7JzZTVQDuvNWSlo09D3ySTLMRBSmI

Lots of silly reactions but half of the shell with the charging contacts just looks like Anbes 359 or AUFO M1.


----------



## Peddler

I certainly haven't experienced any significant hiss from my Tevi's at all.


----------



## IEManiac

Peddler said:


> I certainly haven't experienced any significant hiss from my Tevi's at all.


Ditto with my LP2s.


----------



## webvan

Toom said:


> Can i ask same question i asked earlier - how can you tell if ANC is active on the MTW2s?



So you don't have access to YouTube to listen to some "cabin noise" or is it that weak that you can't tell the difference whether it's on of off ?!


----------



## cleg

My video about Kinera YH632. TL;DR they could be nice for about $40, but they cost about $75


----------



## BigZ12

FYLegend said:


> I just saw MRKWD's review of the Tevis this morning and his biggest complaint is the audio hiss, not as bad as L2P but still worse than others:
> 
> 
> Perhaps his hearing is more sensitive in that region. Not sure if the hissing is a fault of QCC3020 or something else, as I notice it on both my Sabbat E12 Ultra and Tronsmart Onyx Neo, the Tronsmart being considerably worse.
> ...



I don't have any hiss, and his ears are too small for the Tevis. They don't stick out half as much in mye ears. (But I can see the Tevis and it's form factor can be a problem to fit for guys with medium to small ears/ear canals.)


----------



## BigZ12

Ultrainferno said:


> Today we look at the Lypertek TEVI on Headfonia.
> https://www.headfonia.com/lypertek-tevi-review/
> 
> A new recommended buy!


Nice review, thanks.
I see you got the new ones, updated with new firmware and app connect. (saw you had the new packaging).
Lypertek should name them Tevi 2.0, cause they really are noticably better in many ways.
The sound, with better (deeper and punchier) bass, the app connect and when testing the bt range I have less dropouts in my 65 m2 apartment compared to my 1st editions. Maybe this is all because of the firmware update.
I feel the buttons on the buds are softer to press on my new ones. That's not firmware related


----------



## chinmie

this might interest you @Caipirina 
https://www.tomsguide.com/amp/news/samsung-galaxy-buds-2


----------



## webvan

Because he's a runner ? For running I think we're all set with the X12s  But these could be covenient to sleep on or use inside a ski helmet. For that you need the wired EarPods for now.


----------



## IEManiac

BigZ12 said:


> Nice review, thanks.
> I see you got the new ones, updated with new firmware and app connect. (saw you had the new packaging).
> Lypertek should name them Tevi 2.0, cause they really are noticably better in many ways.
> The sound, with better (deeper and punchier) bass, the app connect and when testing the bt range I have less dropouts in my 65 m2 apartment compared to my 1st editions. Maybe this is all because of the firmware update.
> I feel the buttons on the buds are softer to press on my new ones. That's not firmware related


How do you know which version is which when buying?


----------



## BigZ12

IEManiac said:


> How do you know which version is which when buying?


The box is new. (screenshot of their homepage: https://www.lypertek.com/tevi )


----------



## BigZ12

IEManiac said:


> How do you know which version is which when buying?


And when you get them, you'll know if you can connect to the app.
https://www.lypertek.com/app-beta (android)
https://apps.apple.com/th/app/lypertek/id1486702910 (ios)


----------



## Sebulr

cleg said:


> My video about Kinera YH632. TL;DR they could be nice for about $40, but they cost about $75



Thank you. Great review


----------



## vladzakhar

Toom said:


> Can i ask same question i asked earlier - how can you tell if ANC is active on the MTW2s?


The only way to find out if you ANC is active without the app is to tap on the bud to switch it on (the factory setting is 2 times on the right bud) without music playing. You can hear the audible difference.


----------



## tma6

BigZ12 said:


> I actually find the highs/treble a little too harsh with silicone tips.
> When comparing with Lypertek, have you updated the Tevis? The new ones I got, updated with new firmware and app support, are way better in every way than the original ones I got.
> I actually like the high mids (especially female vocals) better with the Tevis than with the MTW2s. I hope I'll get hold of a Comply Truegrip Pro for the Senns soon. Think they will subdue the harshness a little bit. (have the ones for Lypertek/Tozo/JBL on the Tevis... excellent fit and sound!!)



Yes I’ve updated my TEVIs! I wrote the one of the first Amazon reviews of them in August last year (which I think is still the top review right now if you guys wanna check it out =D) and was early on the hype train. They’re still one of the best true wireless out there for reproduction of high frequencies in my opinion and I use them as my baseline for testing highs whenever I try new true wireless for review.

Regarding the MTW2s, I definitely hear the treble spike you’re talking about, I think it’s around 5-7k. This EQ setting has helped a lot with the sound overall in my opinion and has toned down some of that harshness while adding some warmth. Let
me know what you think if you try it!


----------



## BigZ12 (Apr 6, 2020)

tma6 said:


> Yes I’ve updated my TEVIs! I wrote the one of the first Amazon reviews of them in August last year (which I think is still the top review right now if you guys wanna check it out =D) and was early on the hype train. They’re still one of the best true wireless out there for reproduction of high frequencies in my opinion and I use them as my baseline for testing highs whenever I try new true wireless for review.
> 
> Regarding the MTW2s, I definitely hear the treble spike you’re talking about, I think it’s around 5-7k. This EQ setting has helped a lot with the sound overall in my opinion and has toned down some of that harshness while adding some warmth. Let
> me know what you think if you try it!


I tried it, liked it and saved it under tma6 
Will try it out on some of my fav music. Thanks.

I listened to the New music daily list on Apple Music (have also tested the same track on Tidal with Master setting), and heard the new Rita Ora song; "How to be lonely".
Try listen to it with Senn MTW2 (on neutral and with your Eq1 setting).
Her voice from 0:30...  it's almost painful to listen to her. So harsh! (luckily it's not a song I often listen to  )
It's not like that with either the Tevis or my new APPs. Much smoother with no sibilance at all.

I need to get my hands on some Comply Truegrip for the MTW2....


----------



## georgelai57

TWS, the answer for social distancing


----------



## tma6

BigZ12 said:


> I tried it, liked it and saved it under tma6
> Will try it out on some of my fav music. Thanks.
> 
> I listened to the New music daily list on Apple Music (have also tested the same track on Tidal with Master setting), and heard the new Rita Ora song; "How to be lonely".
> ...



Hahah I’m honored. Oh this is interesting. I hear what you’re saying. This is very different from the music I usually listen to. I think this has to do with a particular effect on her vocals that’s being overemphasized by the MTW2s. I do think it could be that spike in 5-7k region since the effect and way it is produced seems to be enhancing the high frequency tension she’s putting into her voice. I’ll keep this in mind though and see if I can hear it elsewhere.

If you want to hear something that the MTW2s do probably better than any other TWS I’ve tried though, take a listen to Flying Lotus’ “Galaxy In Janaki”. Also not a song I generally listen to, but one I use for testing because on a lot of true wireless it sounds like an absolute mess. The MTW2s are able to separate everything very nicely while also maintaining good sub-bass impact and detail. While some stuff like the TEVIs and N6 Pros are able to achieve this separation to a certain degree, there is a loss of richness when compared w the MTW2s.


----------



## tma6 (Apr 6, 2020)

BigZ12 said:


> I tried it, liked it and saved it under tma6
> Will try it out on some of my fav music. Thanks.
> 
> I listened to the New music daily list on Apple Music (have also tested the same track on Tidal with Master setting), and heard the new Rita Ora song; "How to be lonely".
> ...



Also, now that I’m listening for it, I think this emphasis in the MTW2s actually helps with vocal detail on more organically recorded tracks. Take a listen to Vulpeck’s “Birds of a Feather, We Rock Together”. Vocals have similar tension but sound excellent imo.

For an example with female vocals, check out Emily King’s “Down.” The MTW2s add some great emotion to her voice.


----------



## russmarch

The samsung buds just look strange and I do not understand how they would stay in? Can someone tell me what the LP2 is? When I google it, I can't find anything on it? Are the tevis considered top tier sound wise?


----------



## BigZ12

tma6 said:


> Also, now that I’m listening for it, I think this emphasis in the MTW2s actually helps with vocal detail on more organically recorded tracks. Take a listen to Vulpeck’s “Birds of a Feather, We Rock Together”. Vocals have similar tension but sound excellent imo.
> 
> For an example with female vocals, check out Emily King’s “Down.” The MTW2s add some great emotion to her voice.


I will check them out.


----------



## caprimulgus

russmarch said:


> Can someone tell me what the LP2 is?


L2P - Anker Soundcore Liberty 2 Pro


----------



## Toom (Apr 6, 2020)

vladzakhar said:


> The only way to find out if you ANC is active without the app is to tap on the bud to switch it on (the factory setting is 2 times on the right bud) without music playing. You can hear the audible difference.



The app does not show if ANC is active or not.

Anyway, the ANC is pretty weak on these so I cant see myself needing it often, and will save battery as a result.

Its a shame there's no verbal acknowledgement when you engage each mode, which I know at least Jabra provide.

But apart from that niggle, everything is better in the upgrade from the first to this 2nd gen Senns - slnically, they do seem better controlled in default eq, with less bass and more balance. And the smaller size is appreciated too - not thst i had a problem with the originals. 

My major gripe with those was the craptastic battery drain, and that certainly seems massively improved with this iteration.


----------



## BigZ12

Toom said:


> The app does not show if ANC is active or not.


Ehh?!?


----------



## randytsuch

So I'm pretty sure this will get lost in this long thread, but I'll post it anyway, maybe a few people will see it and use it.

I found a way to make a macro on my android phone to set my UTWS1's to aptX whenever they connect.  So you don't have to go into the developer options and set it manually.

Link is here, scroll down a little and look for my replies:
Instructions for macro

Today I tweaked it a little because the scrolling part didn't work all the time, I'll post an updated macro at reddit tonight or tomorrow.

Randy


----------



## BigZ12

tma6 said:


> Also, now that I’m listening for it, I think this emphasis in the MTW2s actually helps with vocal detail on more organically recorded tracks. Take a listen to Vulpeck’s “Birds of a Feather, We Rock Together”. Vocals have similar tension but sound excellent imo.
> 
> For an example with female vocals, check out Emily King’s “Down.” The MTW2s add some great emotion to her voice.


Listened to your song examples, and with the two last ones I agree that both male and female voices sounded very good. Very far from the sound of the Rita Ora track. Smoother, but crisp and detailed, without any sibilance/harshness.
I also agree with richness of details in "Galaxy in Janaki", but it was a bit difficult to appreciate it since it was so far away from the style of music I listen to 

Anyways... I find it difficult to find the best tip for the MTW2. Listening to A LOT of different again now, while using the Emily King song as test track.
A varied collection of Spinfits, Symbio, Comply (Audio Pro and the ones for the Tevis (last with less bass of all  )), JVC Spiral Dots and tips that were incuded with several buds I've owned (for ex the medium ones which were included with the BeatsX, they sounded very good actually).

Funny stuff...I've only tried the original medium tip attached to the MTW2 when opening the case. They gave me bad seal, cause they were too small I guess. 
I tried the large ones now, and they are actually doing quite well. I will let them stay on for a bit, testing with other tracks as well.
Still I would like to try the Comply Truegrip  for the Senns. Since I needed the originals in large I ordered the Comply in large too.
Some reviews on their website also concludes that you should order one size larger tips than you usually use on other buds.


----------



## mikp

randytsuch said:


> So I'm pretty sure this will get lost in this long thread, but I'll post it anyway, maybe a few people will see it and use it.
> 
> I found a way to make a macro on my android phone to set my UTWS1's to aptX whenever they connect.  So you don't have to go into the developer options and set it manually.
> 
> ...



mentioned before in this thread, i also used macrodroid before to change it.
1. Change the codec to aptX in development version
2. Rename the TWS device, by adding "_NOAAC" (no quotation) at the end of the name.


----------



## tma6

BigZ12 said:


> Listened to your song examples, and with the two last ones I agree that both male and female voices sounded very good. Very far from the sound of the Rita Ora track. Smoother, but crisp and detailed, without any sibilance/harshness.
> I also agree with richness of details in "Galaxy in Janaki", but it was a bit difficult to appreciate it since it was so far away from the style of music I listen to
> 
> Anyways... I find it difficult to find the best tip for the MTW2. Listening to A LOT of different again now, while using the Emily King song as test track.
> ...



Glad you liked the music! I agree that Galaxy in Janaki is not my usual cup of tea, but it's a great test track for performance once you get used to it and listen to it on various headphones, in my opinion. 

Re tips, the stock tips work okay for me. Generally, I like the types you have mentioned above. If you have any lying around, I tried some Final Audio eartips on the MTW2s as well and they worked great. I'd take a look at them if you don't have any.


----------



## russmarch

BigZ12 said:


> Listened to your song examples, and with the two last ones I agree that both male and female voices sounded very good. Very far from the sound of the Rita Ora track. Smoother, but crisp and detailed, without any sibilance/harshness.
> I also agree with richness of details in "Galaxy in Janaki", but it was a bit difficult to appreciate it since it was so far away from the style of music I listen to
> 
> Anyways... I find it difficult to find the best tip for the MTW2. Listening to A LOT of different again now, while using the Emily King song as test track.
> ...


I only have the mtw1 but did not feel like I was getting a good seal with the silicon tips. I bought some comply foams and although they stay in quite well, I still don't feel like I am getting the type of seal or maybe the nozzle deep enough. I guess I just feel there should be more there as I usually have put the volume all the way up to get a decent level of sound. Anyone have any ideas on this?


----------



## BigZ12

tma6 said:


> Glad you liked the music! I agree that Galaxy in Janaki is not my usual cup of tea, but it's a great test track for performance once you get used to it and listen to it on various headphones, in my opinion.
> 
> Re tips, the stock tips work okay for me. Generally, I like the types you have mentioned above. If you have any lying around, I tried some Final Audio eartips on the MTW2s as well and they worked great. I'd take a look at them if you don't have any.


Thanks.
Then I have two suggestions of interesting kind of tips I've never tried. Acoustune and Final Audio. Found them both on MTMT Audio. Maybe I will try them sometime.


----------



## Caipirina

cleg said:


> My video about Kinera YH632. TL;DR they could be nice for about $40, but they cost about $75




Was just looking at those again today, but from all the  reviews I read, yeah, I get the same feeling ...  one thing that puzzles me .. do they have aptx or not (sorry, not going to watch a full YT video right now) ... scarbir claims they have, but their own info on AE does not mention ...


----------



## Caipirina

chinmie said:


> this might interest you @Caipirina
> https://www.tomsguide.com/amp/news/samsung-galaxy-buds-2


Always a sucker for new shapes! This could be a winner! Or really really awkward and tinny sounding ... time will tell.


----------



## Caipirina

I am pretty sure not too long ago i was sharing my search for an ear hook style TWS with AptX and that all I could find was the Soundcore spirit X, which only seems to be out in very limited numbers. (And somehow I can’t find my own post) ... now I am finding another ‘odd one out’, the Mpow Flame Pro!!! Look nice! Bit hefty at 70$, but yes: AptX.

now, in another mystery: this is currently only available in SPAIN on AE.

in other ‘not really released’ news, Anker also has / had some called Spirit Dot in the pipeline, which didn’t look too shabby either.


----------



## jant71

Caipirina said:


> I am pretty sure not too long ago i was sharing my search for an ear hook style TWS with AptX and that all I could find was the Soundcore spirit X, which only seems to be out in very limited numbers. (And somehow I can’t find my own post) ... now I am finding another ‘odd one out’, the Mpow Flame Pro!!! Look nice! Bit hefty at 70$, but yes: AptX.
> 
> now, in another mystery: this is currently only available in SPAIN on AE.
> 
> in other ‘not really released’ news, Anker also has / had some called Spirit Dot in the pipeline, which didn’t look too shabby either.



You have to put up with one little wire but the Flame S has aptX HD and is less than half the price and 50% more battery.


----------



## randytsuch

mikp said:


> mentioned before in this thread, i also used macrodroid before to change it.
> 1. Change the codec to aptX in development version
> 2. Rename the TWS device, by adding "_NOAAC" (no quotation) at the end of the name.



I guess some people were able to get the NOACC thing to work, I tried and it did nothing for me.

I should also add my macro is based on something I saw at xda, but I changed it because I couldn't figure out how he did the scrolling.


----------



## bubsdaddy

jant71 said:


> You have to put up with one little wire but the Flame S has aptX HD and is less than half the price and 50% more battery.


The Flame S is very good. I use foam tips and the sound is great with no runner’s thud.


----------



## Synthy

i haven't been following the field, are there any well regarded pairs of TWS that have apt-x and a multi driver all BA setup? (i'm also used to the rock solid connection the galaxy buds have, so that's also preferred).


----------



## mikp

randytsuch said:


> I guess some people were able to get the NOACC thing to work, I tried and it did nothing for me.
> 
> I should also add my macro is based on something I saw at xda, but I changed it because I couldn't figure out how he did the scrolling.


scrolling is done with autoinput


----------



## Caipirina

jant71 said:


> You have to put up with one little wire but the Flame S has aptX HD and is less than half the price and 50% more battery.


I have cycled through a bunch of these kinds of earphones .. and this neck band / cable can be super irritating ... like when turning head, then turn back and it got stuck by sweat to the neck and now gently pulls out the earphone ... hence I have pounced on the TWS thing as soon as it became affordable.


----------



## bronco1015

tma6 said:


> Also, now that I’m listening for it, I think this emphasis in the MTW2s actually helps with vocal detail on more organically recorded tracks. Take a listen to Vulpeck’s “Birds of a Feather, We Rock Together”. Vocals have similar tension but sound excellent imo.
> 
> For an example with female vocals, check out Emily King’s “Down.” The MTW2s add some great emotion to her voice.


How about El Chepe from Vulfpeck or heres one i love to listen to on the 1st gen mtw marooned from pink Floyd. Love everything going on in that song.


----------



## eiraku (Apr 7, 2020)

I finally got my L2Ps. Coming from my TRN V90+BT3S setup, I'm pretty surprised... these aren't bad at all. Not on par of course but hell, it's not as bad as some parts of the net make it out to be.


Spoiler











Highs are a bit hot with my HearID EQ + Sony Hybrids (especially when you pump the volume up) but it's a lot airier and less congested to my ears compared to the more laid back Signature one so I'm probably keeping it there. I'll probably switch EQs around once in a while, it's a good thing the app makes this trivial.

The bass and imaging is pretty good too, at least to my easily pleased ears. Not bad at all for what is pretty much my very first TWS pair. A bonus is that the case isn't as gigantic as I was made to imagine either.

So, anybody know how to figure out what L2P HW Revision I have BTW? I've been hearing numbers being thrown around, but I'm not really sure what to look for.

Of course, after living through the hiss-hell that was my old BT3 + TRN V80s, I can barely perceive any hiss going on at all on my L2Ps, if there is even any on my unit right now.

Finally, anybody know how to check if the L2Ps are running on TWS+? Or if they just do if you're running a Snapdragon 845 device (mine's an OP6).

Oh, also these just arrived as well for "backup" (aka exercise and stuff) purposes:


Spoiler










Haven't tried those yet tho, still very much engrossed in the L2Ps.

EDIT: Tested the COAs, they were OK but yeah, the imaging on the L2Ps are something else completely as far as first impression comparisons go. The COAs do go louder, even if the L2P is pretty sufficient enough as it is (heard the latest update pushed max vol down).

Also, the buttons on the COA are incredibly stiff and their location makes using them a complete PITA, and I'm actually thankful they're not gonna be my daily drivers.


----------



## Caipirina

FYLegend said:


> Has anyone been able to obtain EPZ S350? I recall one Malaysian audio store said they're similar to Sabbat E12 (AptX + Qi + Type-C) but more detailed-sounding. I can only find the Standard edition (Realtek) on Aliexpress. I see it listed on some other Chinese shopping sites like JD.



Same seller who had only the standard version now also has the QC3020 / AptX Pro version at 99$
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000891437908.html


----------



## russmarch

How is aliexpress in the recent times as far as shipping goes? I am have been waiting since march 13th for a package from China.


----------



## TheLionelHutz

eiraku said:


> I finally got my L2Ps. Coming from my TRN V90+BT3S setup, I'm pretty surprised... these aren't bad at all. Not on par of course but hell, it's not as bad as some parts of the net make it out to be.
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> ...


I tried those Creatives. The sound was good, not great and not in the same league as L2P or N6 Pro, but better than a lot of others I tried at the same price-point - a little bass- and mid-forward without sounding boomy or hollow, a little dull sounding between 4 and 12khz but not unpleasant.  I sent them back because the buttons on mine were the same - I couldn't press it without jamming the bud deeper into my ear. They also didn't fit well and kept falling out on their own (even though they are super light).  Those were tolerable issues, but mine also had massive connection issues. I'd get dropouts just sitting in my office with my phone on my desk. Wearing them out on the street in D.C., they were stuttered "off" more than they were "on."  But YMMV on that, if what I've read is accurate, not all of these have the same drop-out problems.


----------



## TheLionelHutz

Synthy said:


> i haven't been following the field, are there any well regarded pairs of TWS that have apt-x and a multi driver all BA setup? (i'm also used to the rock solid connection the galaxy buds have, so that's also preferred).


Dual BA with aptX would be the Mifo O7 or identical (and often cheaper) TFZ X3. I'm not aware of any other dual BA + aptX sets.


----------



## Luchyres

So, I've been really enjoying my N6 (regular) and I use NT01AX for my laptop and my new N6 for my phone. None of the new TOTL devices are calling me - the MTW2 not being able to be used independently for calls and case size (and price) make it not for me....

but the itch has come back and I'm eyeing the WF-Xb700 that Sony is coming out with. Anyone have any idea what wired model they'd compare the driver to? I have and love the EX-800ST and if the xb700 is rocking a 12mm DD that has sound at all similar....

I'm thinking about pre-ordering at Bestbuy but that's not super convenient for me - anyone have any idea of where else the XB700 might be carried online when it's released? I can't find it on Amazon (my default). Anyone else planning on trying these out? @hifi80sman ?


----------



## Caipirina

TheLionelHutz said:


> Dual BA with aptX would be the Mifo O7 or identical (and often cheaper) TFZ X3. I'm not aware of any other dual BA + aptX sets.


There's also the KZ E10 which is 1DD+4BA and AptX, but many reviewers and also people here seem to have connection issues.


----------



## jant71 (Apr 7, 2020)

Caipirina said:


> I have cycled through a bunch of these kinds of earphones .. and this neck band / cable can be super irritating ... like when turning head, then turn back and it got stuck by sweat to the neck and now gently pulls out the earphone ... hence I have pounced on the TWS thing as soon as it became affordable.


True the Flames S cable may not be ideal from the looks of it. If you get the right cable they don't bother me and are more convenient. Leave in hanging on the neck.  3 seconds to insert and done. Compared to open case put in right bud switch hands put in left than close case and have to put case somewhere. TW is not the most easy to get along with for sports for me than a well designed single light cable. Even right now, I was thinking about the Sony XB700 but I have also wanted the Elecom GB41 BT model. 14 grams weight for the Elecom even with a cable while the Sony buds are 8 each for 16 grams, Elecom has aptX and aptX LL, and flat/Bass1/Bass2 on board settings. Both are 5.0 class 1, Elecom does have three buttons on one side to control everything a bit easier with no two button press for FF and three for rewind like the Sony. Both have 12mm drivers. Sony wins in battery life but is $78 more atm. I have the older Elecom RH1000BT version which is also 14 grams and I just wear them on my neck and quite a few times I say, crap, I forgot to bring earphones cause I forget they are there. Leaning towards the Elecom since they are designed for sound with a three layer diaphragm, dual chambers, and a semi-open design not having the others components in the housing.

There are also aftermarket battery cases which will recharge many more times than the Sony's one time. So, charging on the go is addable but out playing sports with no pockets sometimes it is great to take a break and take out your in-ears and wipe the sweat off your face and head and where do you put a TW. Take them out put in one hand, grab towel with the other... not as convenient as let them hang on your neck and hands are free to do whatever. Might be nice if the Sony had a leash but only the SP900 comes with one.




TheLionelHutz said:


> Dual BA with aptX would be the Mifo O7 or identical (and often cheaper) TFZ X3. I'm not aware of any other dual BA + aptX sets.



There is the Astrotec S90 Pro which has dual Knowles with AptX... https://www.linsoul.com/products/astrotec-s90-pro


----------



## Damieni

Hi guys, anyone had a chance to compare the MTW2 vs MW07+?


----------



## hifi80sman

Luchyres said:


> So, I've been really enjoying my N6 (regular) and I use NT01AX for my laptop and my new N6 for my phone. None of the new TOTL devices are calling me - the MTW2 not being able to be used independently for calls and case size (and price) make it not for me....
> 
> but the itch has come back and I'm eyeing the WF-Xb700 that Sony is coming out with. Anyone have any idea what wired model they'd compare the driver to? I have and love the EX-800ST and if the xb700 is rocking a 12mm DD that has sound at all similar....
> 
> I'm thinking about pre-ordering at Bestbuy but that's not super convenient for me - anyone have any idea of where else the XB700 might be carried online when it's released? I can't find it on Amazon (my default). Anyone else planning on trying these out? @hifi80sman ?


Not right now, unfortunately.  I've been on a binge of portable AMP/DACs and over-ears.  Once the gym opens back up, then I'll probably give them a try.

Based on past experience, the XB line will sound decent, but it won't have the same SQ as their higher end models.  They do look nice, but I don't think they are going to sound better than the XM3 (although, they may fit better).


----------



## jant71

hifi80sman said:


> Based on past experience, the XB line will sound decent, but it won't have the same SQ as their higher end models.  They do look nice, but I don't think they are going to sound better than the XM3 (although, they may fit better).



Depends on how they made them. They may sound sweet with the right tips that balance them out some. The right EQ perhaps. If they they took their solid previous 12mm and shoved some foam in the nozzle behind the screen that we can take out we could have a very very good sounding result. I'd say a pretty good chance they are XB due to some physical means like vents or foam that we can mod w/o much trouble. The 12mm is a good sign and makes them more desirable IMO.


----------



## Caipirina

jant71 said:


> True the Flames S cable may not be ideal from the looks of it. If you get the right cable they don't bother me and are more convenient. Leave in hanging on the neck.  3 seconds to insert and done. Compared to open case put in right bud switch hands put in left than close case and have to put case somewhere. TW is not the most easy to get along with for sports for me than a well designed single light cable. Even right now, I was thinking about the Sony XB700 but I have also wanted the Elecom GB41 BT model. 14 grams weight for the Elecom even with a cable while the Sony buds are 8 each for 16 grams, Elecom has aptX and aptX LL, and flat/Bass1/Bass2 on board settings. Both are 5.0 class 1, Elecom does have three buttons on one side to control everything a bit easier with no two button press for FF and three for rewind like the Sony. Both have 12mm drivers. Sony wins in battery life but is $78 more atm. I have the older Elecom RH1000BT version which is also 14 grams and I just wear them on my neck and quite a few times I say, crap, I forgot to bring earphones cause I forget they are there. Leaning towards the Elecom since they are designed for sound with a three layer diaphragm, dual chambers, and a semi-open design not having the others components in the housing.
> 
> There are also aftermarket battery cases which will recharge many more times than the Sony's one time. So, charging on the go is addable but out playing sports with no pockets sometimes it is great to take a break and take out your in-ears and wipe the sweat off your face and head and where do you put a TW. Take them out put in one hand, grab towel with the other... not as convenient as let them hang on your neck and hands are free to do whatever. Might be nice if the Sony had a leash but only the SP900 comes with one.
> 
> ...



Funny you should mention Elecom, my last neck-cable pair I bought were the HPC40 'Grand Bass' ... and yes, they were very nice (i think they died by now, overuse followed by neglect) ... but I never could deal with how that dangling remote creates imbalance. That's another of those 'look right, look front again, cable snags bud out and seal is gone' moments 

Totally agree though that sometimes opening cases is cumbersome, for running I tend to have to leave the case in the car and on occasion I run into glitches which can be easily fixed by 'just pop it back in the case' ... well, tough luck when you don't have that on you. 

In doubt, have a few of each flavor  On occasion I still run with my Sony WS623 because I can carry them easily around my neck, and they come preloaded with music. Also, marathon spanning battery life.


----------



## hifi80sman

jant71 said:


> Depends on how they made them. They may sound sweet with the right tips that balance them out some. The right EQ perhaps. If they they took their solid previous 12mm and shoved some foam in the nozzle behind the screen that we can take out we could have a very very good sounding result. I'd say a pretty good chance they are XB due to some physical means like vents or foam that we can mod w/o much trouble. The 12mm is a good sign and makes them more desirable IMO.


I agree the 12mm driver, which you know is going to be quality from Sony, is a major selling point.  Indeed, probably some tip rolling and removing foam from the nozzle could give you a nice result.  I know some people may not want to mess with the foam, just in case they don't like the result.

I've also seen rumors that the WF-1000XM4 earbuds may be coming out for Holiday 2020, which supposedly will have low bitrate (330 kbps) LDAC.


----------



## jant71

hifi80sman said:


> I agree the 12mm driver, which you know is going to be quality from Sony, is a major selling point.  Indeed, probably some tip rolling and removing foam from the nozzle could give you a nice result.  I know some people may not want to mess with the foam, just in case they don't like the result.
> 
> I've also seen rumors that the WF-1000XM4 earbuds may be coming out for Holiday 2020, which supposedly will have low bitrate (330 kbps) LDAC.



With the new more efficient Qualcomm chips and the new models we will see at CES with them and using aptX adaptive it would be wise for them to get them on the board for Black Friday holiday shopping time. Like Fraunhofer making LC3/LC3plus and aptx adaptive Sony really should be trying to make the codec more efficient and switchable bit rate to keep up. 330 bitrate is the best your line's flagship can do by end of 2020 is really not all that impressive.


----------



## TheLionelHutz

jant71 said:


> There is the Astrotec S90 Pro which has dual Knowles with AptX... https://www.linsoul.com/products/astrotec-s90-pro


Thanks! I hadn't seen that those S90s were released. Anyone have them to comment on SQ?  I like everything about the design and specs.  Might have to take a flyer on them.


----------



## jant71 (Apr 7, 2020)

TheLionelHutz said:


> Thanks! I hadn't seen that those S90s were released. Anyone have them to comment on SQ?  I like everything about the design and specs.  Might have to take a flyer on them.



They don't look half bad. Just maybe some info on the Knowles models used would be helpful. Though it might(should?) be out there if you look.

edit: Says and ED bass and a treble armature but not specific...




..but good to see one of the bass armature instead of both smaller trying to save space.


----------



## hifi80sman

jant71 said:


> With the new more efficient Qualcomm chips and the new models we will see at CES with them and using aptX adaptive it would be wise for them to get them on the board for Black Friday holiday shopping time. Like Fraunhofer making LC3/LC3plus and aptx adaptive Sony really should be trying to make the codec more efficient and switchable bit rate to keep up. 330 bitrate is the best your line's flagship can do by end of 2020 is really not all that impressive.





jant71 said:


> They don't look half bad. Just maybe some info on the Knowles models used would be helpful. Though it might(should?) be out there if you look.
> 
> edit: Says and ED bass and a treble armature but not specific...
> 
> ..but good to see one of the bass armature instead of both smaller trying to save space.


Looks like it may be along these lines:
http://www.seltech-international.com/bax/ED


----------



## eiraku (Apr 7, 2020)

TheLionelHutz said:


> I tried those Creatives. The sound was good, not great and not in the same league as L2P or N6 Pro, but better than a lot of others I tried at the same price-point - a little bass- and mid-forward without sounding boomy or hollow, a little dull sounding between 4 and 12khz but not unpleasant.  I sent them back because the buttons on mine were the same - I couldn't press it without jamming the bud deeper into my ear. They also didn't fit well and kept falling out on their own (even though they are super light).  Those were tolerable issues, but mine also had massive connection issues. I'd get dropouts just sitting in my office with my phone on my desk. Wearing them out on the street in D.C., they were stuttered "off" more than they were "on."  But YMMV on that, if what I've read is accurate, not all of these have the same drop-out problems.



Haven't used the COA enough to notice connection issues in 2.4Ghz saturated areas yet, but yeah I can see fit being an issue for many on them. Especially with those super tiny tips.

Thankfully, they fit securely enough for me, though I haven't taken them out for a jog to test or anything (not that I could considering the local situation right now).

On the flipside though, the L2P connection stability is proving to be pretty amazing TBH, at least compared to my experiences with previous gen BT4.1/4.2 stuff. Left my phone on a table at ground floor on my 2-storey house, went back up to my room to take some stuff and the L2P never missed a single beat, not for even a split second.

Maybe it's nothing to you folks used to BT5 but it sure was an eye opener for me.

That said, the mic - as I had been expecting - was rather disappointing. The cVc noise cancelling feels a tad overzealous to me TBH, and I've seen similar short-stem TWS with equivalent chipsets and configurations do better.

But eyyy, I've seen (and used) worse too *shrugs*


----------



## danimoca (Apr 7, 2020)

Hi guys!

I have two TWS's:
- One Moore Stylish
- Lypertek Tevi

I need something with an "*in-between*" sound sig. I like the OneMore's quite a bit, but find them a bit boomy at times.

The Lypertek's I just can't like them. Even after the firmware update, to me, they still sound too bright on the upper midrange. Prefer the One More's, even if they aren't as detailed or have as much resolution and soundstage.

As a side note to the sound... I also HATE the controls on the TEVI's. The buttons are hard and pressing them into your ear is stupidly painful. The OneMore's have a neat button on the top of the earbuds that presses easily.


----------



## russmarch

The Senn MTW2 seem to be getting a lot of attention, but I imagine others will have more to say on this as I am fairly new.


----------



## FYLegend

Caipirina said:


> Same seller who had only the standard version now also has the QC3020 / AptX Pro version at 99$
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000891437908.html


Looking great but unfortunately that translates to 140$ CAD. Not sure if 3026 has the choppy bud-switching like the 3020 does. Couldn't find any reviews except one saying "the bass is a bit soft."



jant71 said:


> There is the Astrotec S90 Pro which has dual Knowles with AptX... https://www.linsoul.com/products/astrotec-s90-pro


Sounded like they wanted people on their Facebook group to test them out but they never got around to it. Next I saw them sold at marked-up prices on Aliexpress until I saw that Linsoul listing.  At that price I'm hoping they no longer use a faux USB Type-C port (as on the S60 and S80, only charges Type-C-to-A cables).

Also I don't get what's so hard about making third-party cases for leading products with more charges, USB-C and Qi charging if the original product didn't have these. I see a charging cradle for the Galaxy Buds but no case with multiple charges. The Buds+ case gets depleted within the first day (~6-7 hours of use).

Meanwhile on Amazon.ca I'm seeing markup on budget TWS from third-party dealers. Not sure if they're blatantly ripping off or if there's another reason (I recall reading sellers sometimes introduce products at huge prices to ensure they show up on search results). Sabbat E12 Ultra for 1000$ anyone?


----------



## TheLionelHutz

danimoca said:


> Hi guys!
> 
> I have two TWS's:
> - One Moore Stylish
> ...


Sounds like you would like the Nuarl N6 (non-pro).


----------



## Caipirina

FYLegend said:


> Looking great but unfortunately that translates to 140$ CAD. Not sure if 3026 has the choppy bud-switching like the 3020 does. Couldn't find any reviews except one saying "the bass is a bit soft."


AT that price point I also see no incentive, with the tried and trie E12 out there ... 

at 1000CAD???  holy molly !!!!


----------



## chinmie

FYLegend said:


> Sabbat E12 Ultra for 1000$ anyone?





Caipirina said:


> at 1000CAD??? holy molly !!!!



Maybe it's a version using tricked out drivers


----------



## Luchyres

danimoca said:


> Hi guys!
> 
> I have two TWS's:
> - One Moore Stylish
> ...





TheLionelHutz said:


> Sounds like you would like the Nuarl N6 (non-pro).



I second the N6 recommendation!


----------



## hifi80sman

jant71 said:


> With the new more efficient Qualcomm chips and the new models we will see at CES with them and using aptX adaptive it would be wise for them to get them on the board for Black Friday holiday shopping time. Like Fraunhofer making LC3/LC3plus and aptx adaptive Sony really should be trying to make the codec more efficient and switchable bit rate to keep up. 330 bitrate is the best your line's flagship can do by end of 2020 is really not all that impressive.


Definitely less than ideal, but at least it'll be a step up from AAC (for a Sony TWS) _*and *_hopefully they'll be room for perhaps a firmware update to get to at least 660 kbps.  I would definitely go for a pair of Sony earbuds that have LDAC, even if it's just an initial implementation.


----------



## cleg

My video about Sony's flagship TWS


----------



## cleg

Caipirina said:


> Was just looking at those again today, but from all the  reviews I read, yeah, I get the same feeling ...  one thing that puzzles me .. do they have aptx or not (sorry, not going to watch a full YT video right now) ... scarbir claims they have, but their own info on AE does not mention ...



they do have aptX, M15 shows aptX caption


----------



## BigZ12 (Apr 8, 2020)

danimoca said:


> Hi guys!
> 
> I have two TWS's:
> - One Moore Stylish
> ...


What kind of tips do you use with the Tevis? You should get your hands on some foam tips. First, they subdue any potential harshness and it's much more comfortable to use the buttons. Btw, I don't find them bright sounding, even with the JVC Spiral Dots which suits the Tevis well. Are you sure you get a decent seal?
But this could prove what I said earlier, about my new replacement must have been a new batch. The buttons on the new ones are softer to press than my 1st edition, and it seems you have the ones originally delivered with old firmware too.


----------



## chinmie

cleg said:


> My video about Sony's flagship TWS




yup, both of my XM3s mostly agree to your review


----------



## Caipirina

chinmie said:


> yup, both of my XM3s mostly agree to your review


"both" !!!!


----------



## thimantha

chinmie said:


> yup, both of my XM3s mostly agree to your review



Man I love that case xD


----------



## Bhelpoori

FYLegend said:


> Looking great but unfortunately that translates to 140$ CAD. Not sure if 3026 has the choppy bud-switching like the 3020 does. Couldn't find any reviews except one saying "the bass is a bit soft."


The QC3020 and 3026 are the same chip just packaged differently.


----------



## RobinFood

chinmie said:


> yup, both of my XM3s mostly agree to your review



Damn, I really miss them 

On the bright side I started using my Sabbat X12s as my daily drivers.

My phone doesn't support AAC and my Shanling M0 didn't work with AAC on true wireless buds before, but a few updates ago it started working, and it sounds much better. I am really enjoying them for music, needing to listen to my surroundings almost all the time, and not needing noise cancelling thanks to covid-19 making sure I don't ever take the train anywhere anymore.


----------



## Caipirina

RobinFood said:


> Damn, I really miss them
> 
> On the bright side I started using my Sabbat X12s as my daily drivers.


Those X12s are really something ... hence I finally caved in and ordered an 'ultra' pair to play with my aptx devices.


----------



## chinmie

RobinFood said:


> Damn, I really miss them
> 
> On the bright side I started using my Sabbat X12s as my daily drivers.
> 
> My phone doesn't support AAC and my Shanling M0 didn't work with AAC on true wireless buds before, but a few updates ago it started working, and it sounds much better. I am really enjoying them for music, needing to listen to my surroundings almost all the time, and not needing noise cancelling thanks to covid-19 making sure I don't ever take the train anywhere anymore.



with everyone having to stay at home, the ANC helps a lot in my situation, with my wife and kid having Zoom conference with their work/school, also with them watching TV. i can still have my personal quiet bubble when needed. 

also this is the time to bring all of my TWS and earphones to daily rotation   
i listen to the same album from start to finish, and then listen to it again with a different earphones and enjoying the slight differences and nuances each of them present

currently I'm listening to the new Pearl Jam "Gigaton" album


----------



## cleg

chinmie said:


> yup, both of my XM3s mostly agree to your review



I must admit this leather case is super cool


----------



## Luke Skywalker

hifi80sman said:


> I agree the 12mm driver, which you know is going to be quality from Sony, is a major selling point.  Indeed, probably some tip rolling and removing foam from the nozzle could give you a nice result.  I know some people may not want to mess with the foam, just in case they don't like the result.
> 
> I've also seen rumors that the WF-1000XM4 earbuds may be coming out for Holiday 2020, which supposedly will have low bitrate (330 kbps) LDAC.


Great to know about the WF-1000XM4!  I actually got the WF-1000XM3 last night - couldn't resist a $119 deal on Amazon.  I must say though, I was disappointed in the sound quality after all the hype... I much prefer the N6 Pro's and of course my Lola's  

I do like the ease of pairing with my Firestick... So convenient for watching movies late at night.  It's also cool that you can pair with something like 8 or 9 devices


----------



## Luke Skywalker

Luchyres said:


> I second the N6 recommendation!


Yeah definitely get the N6's.  Sometimes for certain kinds of music they sound as good as my Lola's.  Gonna use my new WF-1000XM3's for paperweights I think


----------



## Caipirina

chinmie said:


> with everyone having to stay at home, the ANC helps a lot in my situation, with my wife and kid having Zoom conference with their work/school, also with them watching TV. i can still have my personal quiet bubble when needed.
> 
> also this is the time to bring all of my TWS and earphones to daily rotation
> i listen to the same album from start to finish, and then listen to it again with a different earphones and enjoying the slight differences and nuances each of them present
> ...


Ha, very similar situation here, with wife / kiddo doing video conferences, while I am hunting food! They are both now used to me pretty much always having TWS in my ears ... and so far wife has not noticed that they all look different  

Getting more playtime in with my TWS than usual ... right now really enjoying the combo or 1More Stylish and aptx connected to the TempoTec V1A, which I think was one of my best recent DAP buys ... 
Listening to an old 1997 lounge album


----------



## Luke Skywalker

Hey would anyone be able to recommend the best EQ settings for the Sony WF-1000MX3 in the Sony App?  I listen to mostly female vocals, blues, classical/opera, jazz, and instrumental guitar

Mucho gracias!


----------



## hifi80sman

Luke Skywalker said:


> Yeah definitely get the N6's.  Sometimes for certain kinds of music they sound as good as my Lola's.  Gonna use my new WF-1000XM3's for paperweights I think


HAHA, that's rough!

Have you tried to EQ?  They need a little EQ massaging.


----------



## chinmie

Luke Skywalker said:


> Hey would anyone be able to recommend the best EQ settings for the Sony WF-1000MX3 in the Sony App?  I listen to mostly female vocals, blues, classical/opera, jazz, and instrumental guitar
> 
> Mucho gracias!



i set it flat, but reduce the clear bass setting to "- 4", or up to "-2" if i want more bass or watching movies. 

other than that, i leave the other EQ untouched


----------



## hifi80sman

Down to $99 if anyone is interested.
https://www.amazon.com/Master-Dynamic-MW07-Wireless-Earphones/dp/B07P23SHDP/


----------



## rstarden

Hi folks,

New member here - please forgive noob etiquette fails. 

Just wanted to throw out that I ordered a set of the M5-TWS Customs a few weeks back - hoping to have them in about 4 weeks or so (COVID crisis obviously huge uncertainty). I've been reaching out to companies for R&D venture like this, so went absolutely nuts when I saw the new product announcement.  

To set expectations - I'm coming from 64audio A8s and Campfire Solstice, and no chance these will hit that bar. However, I have an incurable obsession with wireless and have gone through countless sets of bluetooth dongles... which all tend to end in disappointment. Honestly, if these can simply deliver acceptable fidelity for conference calls I'd be happy. Anything not TWS tends to produce obnoxious feedback from physical contact unless you clip perfectly. I'm addicted to CIEM so won't use Airpod / Galaxy Buds which I assume solve that problem. Major bonus if audio fidelity is satisfactory for between-call jams, and can always switch to Campfires for pleasure.

Has anyone else ordered a pair? 

I'll be sure to post review when I receive and would greatly appreciate if others can do the same - thanks.

Cheers and stay well,

Ryan


----------



## thimantha (Apr 9, 2020)

rstarden said:


> I'm addicted to CIEM so won't use Airpod / Galaxy Buds which I assume solve that problem.


Galaxy Buds and Buds+ are in ear monitors, unlike AirPods.


----------



## Darkestred

rstarden said:


> Hi folks,
> 
> New member here - please forgive noob etiquette fails.
> 
> ...



It's crazy to me that Adv is charging $500 for them.  More than their M5 normal custom.  I would hate to imagine the regret when something better comes out (yes something better will always come out) but also when it comes time to replace the battery.


----------



## assassin10000

eiraku said:


> So, anybody know how to figure out what L2P HW Revision I have BTW? I've been hearing numbers being thrown around, but I'm not really sure what to look for.
> 
> Finally, anybody know how to check if the L2Ps are running on TWS+? Or if they just do if you're running a Snapdragon 845 device (mine's an OP6).



On the usb charging port cover is the S/N, which will tell the version.



d3myz said:


> Soooo. I'm still in contact with anker, trying to sort out my returns and what not. They told me the serial number is on the charging case tab, you'll need to pull it out and it's on the back.
> 
> To give you an idea. My version 1 starts with 1939, Version 2 starts with 1943 and my newest version ver. 3 starts wtih 1947.


 
As far as TWS+, you can start playing music then put the right piece back in the case and shut the lid. If the left plays with no pause, then it has TWS+. If it pauses, then connects to the left it does not.


My Pixel 3 XL is also has a Snapdragon 845 SoC (currently android 10) and does not have TWS+. Wish it did, I'd get another hour or two (or more) play time.


----------



## chinmie

assassin10000 said:


> On the usb charging port cover is the S/N, which will tell the version.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



it's funny that the Airoha chip based TWS can achieve that seamless transition of the TWS+ without the need of Snapdragon 855 and up...the only thing that they still got going for them is because of the exclusive APTX codec. although to be fair, the difference between AAC and APTX are so small that even most people would not be able to hear the difference in A/B comparation (especially with streaming app like spotify)


----------



## caprimulgus

A pity that Australia gets Exynos instead of Snapdragon in Samsung phones! (Planning on getting an S20 Ultra)


----------



## thimantha

caprimulgus said:


> A pity that Australia gets Exynos instead of Snapdragon in Samsung phones! (Planning on getting an S20 Ultra)



Try to import the SD variant, or just wait for next year's lineup. I think the difference in performance and efficiency is too much to justify settling for the Exynos variant, especially when the phone costs as much as it does. They're apparently not going to use the Mongoose architecture on Exynos chips from next year onwards and will be using reference. So the disparity should be minimal. 

Wait, or try to import.


----------



## Luke Skywalker

hifi80sman said:


> HAHA, that's rough!
> 
> Have you tried to EQ?  They need a little EQ massaging.


Haha well... They're great for noise cancelling and watching movies, but they sound mediocre for music to me.  The problem is I get very obsessive about that stuff and I would be constantly tweaking the levels...  The N6's sounded great to my ears immediately. 

Would love any advice on EQ settings...


----------



## Luke Skywalker

chinmie said:


> i set it flat, but reduce the clear bass setting to "- 4", or up to "-2" if i want more bass or watching movies.
> 
> other than that, i leave the other EQ untouched


thanks so much!


----------



## TheLionelHutz (Apr 9, 2020)

chinmie said:


> it's funny that the Airoha chip based TWS can achieve that seamless transition of the TWS+ without the need of Snapdragon 855 and up...the only thing that they still got going for them is because of the exclusive APTX codec. although to be fair, the difference between AAC and APTX are so small that even most people would not be able to hear the difference in A/B comparation (especially with streaming app like spotify)


This depends on a lot on the phone.  AAC on my Motorola sounds like butt, aptX does not (to my ear it's worse than SBC, even (edit: AAC is, I mean)).  It was like a night and day difference listening to the ADV X+ on my Moto vs my iPhone - both using AAC, but the iPhone sounded about 100x better (scientifically measured  ).


----------



## TheLionelHutz (Apr 9, 2020)

Speaking of the ADV X+, I went ahead and bought them again after returning them the first time. My experience with the Tranya B530 Pro the last 3 weeks has been that I was just trying to get them to live up to the ADVs - similar functionality and form factor, but the ADVs are smaller and fit better and the Tranyas are a little glitchy for me and I just cannot keep the right one in my ear.  The aptX on the Tranyas is a definite boon, but the ADVs don't sound so much worse that I can't accept the compromise.  For this set (I mean, I still have 4 other pairs for different situations), that will suffice. They are just so darn comfortable and easy to control, and the sound is good enough (on my Android - it's awesome on my iPhone, I'm just not supposed to use that for personal stuff).


----------



## BigZ12 (Apr 9, 2020)

Sorry for a bit off topic, but since I am going to use a TWS with it, I ask here anyway. 
Do any of you know of any Android tablet with at least AAC/AptX? (all I own is Apple, but I want to update myself with an Android device  )
Most Android phones have both AAC/AptX/AptX HD and some with LDAC as well.
But I don't find any tablets who support other than SBC.
If you don't know this, do you have any suggestions which forums where I can ask?


----------



## mikp

BigZ12 said:


> Sorry for a bit off topic, but since I am going to use a TWS with it, I ask here anyway.
> Do any of you know of any Android tablet with at least AAC/AptX? (all I own is Apple, but I want to update myself with an Android device  )
> Most Android phones have both AAC/AptX/AptX HD and some with LDAC as well.
> But I don't find any tablets who support other than SBC.
> If you don't know this, do you have any suggestions which forums where I can ask?



s5e is good, apt-x\ldac. got it on sale just before the corona\currency price hike


----------



## randytsuch (Apr 9, 2020)

BigZ12 said:


> Sorry for a bit off topic, but since I am going to use a TWS with it, I ask here anyway.
> Do any of you know of any Android tablet with at least AAC/AptX? (all I own is Apple, but I want to update myself with an Android device  )
> Most Android phones have both AAC/AptX/AptX HD and some with LDAC as well.
> But I don't find any tablets who support other than SBC.
> If you don't know this, do you have any suggestions which forums where I can ask?



Look here


----------



## webvan

So the MTW 2 came in today and they're...good ! I suppose they'd better be for 300€, now are they worth that price ? I'm not sure as they don't really have anything "unique" going for them. It could be argued that they are best "overall" package though if you want great sound, good fit, decent passive isolation, ANC, great controls and good battery life. Maybe the MW07+ offer that too (apart from the controls) but I haven't tried them so I can't comment on them.

Taking these features one by one here's my take :
- SQ : will have to spend more time on this but it's good out of the box, the soundstage is impressive, the clarity is great. I can't hear it being 2x better than the L2Ps (once their bass has been tamed) though, but better than the Echobuds, yes.
- Good fit : I was pleasantly surprised there as I am rather fussy with how TWS fit and OCD about the seal. With the large eartips (they feel "cheap" by the way) I get a good seal that does not break, even when I move my jaw, that's pretty rare for a TWS without wings. It's probably because they fit snuggly against the back of my ear without putting too much pressure. They're light too and don't go too deep in the canal, which makes them comfortable. The Echobuds that have a similar form factor go deeper and...isolate better, there's always a trade off. EDIT : I pulled out the medium L2P tips (I used the L ones on the L2Ps) and they might be an even better fit.
- Decent passive isolation : it's not Echobuds good but it's better than most TWS out there (and the L2P for sure) and with a seal that doesn't break it's hard to ask for more
- ANC : with the decent passive isolation it's less impressive/noticeable than on the APPs or XM3s or even the LTAs, it's closer to the Echobuds. The app mentions "feed forward" ANC, so it seems to be lacking the "feeback" portion (internal mic) that's present on the first three but not on the MW07+. That's maybe why the sound doesn't change with ANC on or off. As for passive isolation, the passive+ANC combo isn't as good as on the Echobuds that remain the "best in class" IMHO.
- controls are great : 8 customisable actions to pick from so nothing's missing. Can't think of another TWS out there like that ?

So for someone who only wants one TWS (nobody here I'm afraid !) they're going to be hard to beat, apart from the price. But if you've picked the "best" TWS for specific needs, in my case the X12 for running, the L2Ps for quality listening, the Echobuds for the best isolation and a few backups well...


----------



## BigZ12 (Apr 9, 2020)

randytsuch said:


> Look here


Thanks.   I will add it to my list at my fav "pricehunter". It's very expensive now. Maybe I can find a used one, a demoproduct or I'll wait for a better offer.
And Android 9.0 didn't mess with LDAC support? I've seen some phones with problems with codecs after updating to 9.0 (Pie).

Edit: https://bluetoothcheck.com/d/samsung-galaxy-tab-s5e  
Did you have to unlock some developer options to enable AAC/AptX/LDAC?


----------



## mikp

BigZ12 said:


> Thanks.   I will add it to my list at my fav "pricehunter". It's very expensive now. Maybe I can find a used one, a demoproduct or I'll wait for a better offer.
> And Android 9.0 didn't mess with LDAC support? I've seen some phones with problems with codecs after updating to 9.0 (Pie).
> 
> Edit: https://bluetoothcheck.com/d/samsung-galaxy-tab-s5e
> Did you have to unlock some developer options to enable AAC/AptX/LDAC?


no, that site is outdated.


----------



## Darkestred

BigZ12 said:


> Sorry for a bit off topic, but since I am going to use a TWS with it, I ask here anyway.
> Do any of you know of any Android tablet with at least AAC/AptX? (all I own is Apple, but I want to update myself with an Android device  )
> Most Android phones have both AAC/AptX/AptX HD and some with LDAC as well.
> But I don't find any tablets who support other than SBC.
> If you don't know this, do you have any suggestions which forums where I can ask?



Hauwei Mediapad m5 has aptx and aptx hd. Although, id probably look at the newer samsungs. Nothing wrong with the mediapad but it has a known issue using bluetooth/wifi at the same time unless you use 5ghz band on wifi.


----------



## FYLegend

assassin10000 said:


> As far as TWS+, you can start playing music then put the right piece back in the case and shut the lid. If the left plays with no pause, then it has TWS+. If it pauses, then connects to the left it does not.
> 
> 
> My Pixel 3 XL is also has a Snapdragon 845 SoC (currently android 10) and does not have TWS+. Wish it did, I'd get another hour or two (or more) play time.


I'm not so sure that gapped transition indicates your device is not using TWS+, a while back someone on this thread said their OnePlus 7T had the gappy transition and having to pair buds individually. TWS+ just means the device transmits a signal independently to each bud rather than master-slave, not that the transition is seamless.  The QCC3040 introduces seamless bud-switching and power distribution as a feature called "TrueWireless Mirroring".


----------



## assassin10000

FYLegend said:


> I'm not so sure that gapped transition indicates your device is not using TWS+, a while back someone on this thread said their OnePlus 7T had the gappy transition and having to pair buds individually. TWS+ just means the device transmits a signal independently to each bud rather than master-slave, not that the transition is seamless.  The QCC3040 introduces seamless bud-switching and power distribution as a feature called "TrueWireless Mirroring".



Hmmm. I also look at/watch the Bluetooth connections and only see one side connected. Which disconnects while putting away one side, then in the pause shows it connecting to the other.

Yet I can be connected to multiple other BT devices and they'll be shown on the currently connected list. Though, I do not know what would be shown on the BT connected list, given I don't have a device that supports it.


----------



## go0gle

webvan said:


> I can't hear it being 2x better than the L2Ps (once their bass has been tamed) though, but better than the Echobuds, yes.



not sure if 2x better exists yet, at any price..


----------



## tma6

Well, I was about to write a pretty positive review of the Momentum True Wireless 2s, but today for no reason the ANC/transparancy mode in the left earbud stopped working and they stopped being able to be used for phone calls. So unfortunately I have to send them back, which is a disappointment particularly since I was expecting zero QC issues at this price range. While I'm not going to do a full review, I can talk a little bit about the sound:

Honestly, it's very good but not mind-blowing given the price. The sound signature is actually quite similar to the FiiL T1X, though the T1Xs don't have quite the same level of detail retrieval, instrument separation, or refinement. The sound quality of the MTW2s is well-rounded, complete, very clean and has a nice amount of richness. The bass has great depth, has a good balance of resonance and tightness, and is well controlled for the most part. The bass is also quite detailed and has good texture, though I do find the N6 Pros have a bit more detail in the low end at the expense of some resonance and depth. The mids are also very nice and detailed, with vocals sounding superb. There's sometimes a bit of harshness on overproduced vocals and in the upper mid-range area, but on most tracks it's smooth and a slightly forward. The highs are a little bit of a mixed bag in my opinion. While they are pretty detailed overall and on many tracks they sound really nice and crisp, on others cymbals can sound a bit splashy and even grainy. I prefer the highs on the TEVIs and N6 Pros to these. One thing these things do fantastically well is instrument separation. There's a completeness to the overall sound and each frequency range feels like it's given it's proper place. It's separation is probably better than any TWS I've heard. However, the thing that is pretty disappointing in my opinion is the width of the soundstage. It's actually quite narrow and everything feels like it's in your head. I don't usually care too much about soundstage width, but here it actually bothers me for some reason. The imaging is good and distinct, but it's not as logical as the N6 Pros or the original MW07s. The L2Ps, the TEVIs, and the original MW07s have a wider stage than the MTW2s. I also was not enamored with the tonality overall. It's definitely rich and warm in the lows and lower mid range, which I generally like, but it's also more sculpted than I would've hoped and has a slant toward a well-done consumer-oriented sound. It is not as natural as I would have wanted, and coming from the N6 Pros as my daily drivers, the timbre of the MTW2s is not as nice to my ears. Still, as a complete package, these sound great for a TWS set. 

Regarding the features, I felt that the ANC performed well for low frequencies, but did not do well with mid-higher frequencies, particularly when compared with the Airpods Pro. The transparency mode was great actually until it stopped working on the left earbud. The call quality (also before it crapped out), while making my voice sound a bit muffled, came through even with loud surroundings so not too many complaints there. The battery life was decent, but a bit worse than I was expecting. With ANC on and at 80% volume I got around 4 hours and 50 minutes. With ANC off and at 80% volume I got around 6 hours. Also, I generally used them at 80-90% volume since the volume capacity on these is not extraordinary, though it's definitely sufficient for the most part. The case is really nice on these and a bit smaller than the previous generation. 

All in all, I liked the MTW2s for the combination of great sound quality and complete feature set. However, I don't find myself too upset about having to return them. I think the price probably has something to do with that. I do not think they provide $300 worth of sound quality particularly when I compared them directly with wired IEMS, or even with the N6 Pros, the L2Ps, the TEVIs, and the original MW07s.


----------



## hifi80sman

tma6 said:


> Well, I was about to write a pretty positive review of the Momentum True Wireless 2s, but today for no reason the ANC/transparancy mode in the left earbud stopped working and they stopped being able to be used for phone calls. So unfortunately I have to send them back, which is a disappointment particularly since I was expecting zero QC issues at this price range. While I'm not going to do a full review, I can talk a little bit about the sound:
> 
> Honestly, it's very good but not mind-blowing given the price. The sound signature is actually quite similar to the FiiL T1X, though the T1Xs don't have quite the same level of detail retrieval, instrument separation, or refinement. The sound quality of the MTW2s is well-rounded, complete, very clean and has a nice amount of richness. The bass has great depth, has a good balance of resonance and tightness, and is well controlled for the most part. The bass is also quite detailed and has good texture, though I do find the N6 Pros have a bit more detail in the low end at the expense of some resonance and depth. The mids are also very nice and detailed, with vocals sounding superb. There's sometimes a bit of harshness on overproduced vocals and in the upper mid-range area, but on most tracks it's smooth and a slightly forward. The highs are a little bit of a mixed bag in my opinion. While they are pretty detailed overall and on many tracks they sound really nice and crisp, on others cymbals can sound a bit splashy and even grainy. I prefer the highs on the TEVIs and N6 Pros to these. One thing these things do fantastically well is instrument separation. There's a completeness to the overall sound and each frequency range feels like it's given it's proper place. It's separation is probably better than any TWS I've heard. However, the thing that is pretty disappointing in my opinion is the width of the soundstage. It's actually quite narrow and everything feels like it's in your head. I don't usually care too much about soundstage width, but here it actually bothers me for some reason. The imaging is good and distinct, but it's not as logical as the N6 Pros or the original MW07s. The L2Ps, the TEVIs, and the original MW07s have a wider stage than the MTW2s. I also was not enamored with the tonality overall. It's definitely rich and warm in the lows and lower mid range, which I generally like, but it's also more sculpted than I would've hoped and has a slant toward a well-done consumer-oriented sound. It is not as natural as I would have wanted, and coming from the N6 Pros as my daily drivers, the timbre of the MTW2s is not as nice to my ears. Still, as a complete package, these sound great for a TWS set.
> 
> ...


Great feedback.  Did you have the Gen 1 MTW?  If so, how does it compare sound-wise?  Also, is the build still quite the plastic feeling?  While most TWS are made primarily of plastic, the MTW just didn't feel that great in the hands.


----------



## erockg

hifi80sman said:


> Great feedback.  Did you have the Gen 1 MTW?  If so, how does it compare sound-wise?  Also, is the build still quite the plastic feeling?  While most TWS are made primarily of plastic, the MTW just didn't feel that great in the hands.


I've had them both. Love the 2's so far.  A bit smaller than the first gen and the ANC works great with a good seal, and as long as you make sure you rotate the buds so the microphone holes are not blocked by your ear.  This happens to me with the MTW's.  I use them all day for work calls and music.  Zero issues so far.  Still the same plastic feel.  Still very light.  I'm going back and forth between the 2's and the MW07 Plus right now.  The latter hurt my ears no matter how many tips I switch out.


----------



## PixelSquish

After a couple days with these really digging the sound of the Senn MTW2's. Just wish they would go a bit louder to maybe like 110-120%. The transparent feature works well. ANC seems pretty decent thought I haven't been on the subway with them (and won't be while this virus thing is around). Been using them for phone calls and no complaints from the other end, even on a pretty windy walk with the dog earlier today the MTW2's held their own besides a couple strong gusts.


----------



## BigZ12

PixelSquish said:


> After a couple days with these really digging the sound of the Senn MTW2's. Just wish they would go a bit louder to maybe like 110-120%. The transparent feature works well. ANC seems pretty decent thought I haven't been on the subway with them (and won't be while this virus thing is around). Been using them for phone calls and no complaints from the other end, even on a pretty windy walk with the dog earlier today the MTW2's held their own besides a couple strong gusts.


I also think they should be louder


----------



## PixelSquish

BigZ12 said:


> I also think they should be louder


 
I'm the same way with my Beats Solo 3's as well. I just wish they would go slightly higher also. Seems to be a limitation with bluetooth in my limited experience


----------



## tma6 (Apr 10, 2020)

hifi80sman said:


> Great feedback.  Did you have the Gen 1 MTW?  If so, how does it compare sound-wise?  Also, is the build still quite the plastic feeling?  While most TWS are made primarily of plastic, the MTW just didn't feel that great in the hands.



Thanks! I borrowed the original MTWs about a year or so ago from a friend for a couple days, but never owned them. From my memory, the originals had a slightly wider soundstage, a more deep and resonant bass that I thought got a bit bloated on some tracks, which is not an issue on the MTW2s. The mids on the originals felt a little more recessed than they are on the MTW2s. I would say overall that the MTW2s are a bit more balanced but also a bit less full sounding, a little more dry than the originals. Still overall a rich and detailed sound though, just not spectacular for the money. Regarding build quality, they are pretty plastic feeling and light. I didn't mind it though to be honest. One thing I didn't mention was that the comfort was only okay for my ears. They were fine for about an hour then started causing some fatigue.


----------



## webvan (Apr 10, 2020)

@erockg So the MTW2 are a better fit than the MW07 ? Is isolation/ANC any different ? They both use the same "weak sauce" "force feed ANC but passive isolation is going to make a difference.

Having spent a day with them I don't have a lot to add to my review above, no issues noted. I'm surprised by the comment about soundstage as I find it to be as good as on the L2Ps, even wider actually. The tips make a big difference though. I tried the L2P tips in medium as they made the MTW2 sit "flusher" with the ear but that came at a significant cost in terms of width compared to the original tips.  As for the FILL there's really no comparison IMHO, the MTW2 are head and above in terms of SQ, especially for the soundstage with the FILL sounding very very narrow.

Someone was asking the other day about ANC while riding a bike and I'd commented that it would likely have to be turned off like on all ANC TWS/Headphones as the mics used for the "force feed" ANC amplify the wind. Well I used my home trainer today with a fan and sure enough there was that unpleasant wind sound with ANC ON...and more surprisingly with ANC OFF too, even if it was a bit subdued. That's unexpected as neither the Echobuds or XM3s have that problem. Maybe the mics stay on somehow or it's how the "shell" captures wind noise somehow. Well the good news is that in spite of the hearty exercise and associated sweating I never had to readjust them, which has to be a first (In spite of their wings I've struggled with the Havit G1, FILL among others to maintain a seal while exercising).

Oh and I find them super loud, I was struck how loud they were compared to the Echobuds for instance.


----------



## erockg

webvan said:


> @erockg So the MTW2 are a better fit than the MW07 ? Is isolation/ANC any different ? They both use the same "weak sauce" "force feed ANC but passive isolation is going to make a difference.


In my opinion, yes, the MTW2 fit better than the MW07 Plus.  ANC is a lot better with the MTW2.  Yes, passive isolation is much better on the MTW2 that helps.


----------



## tma6 (Apr 10, 2020)

webvan said:


> @erockg So the MTW2 are a better fit than the MW07 ? Is isolation/ANC any different ? They both use the same "weak sauce" "force feed ANC but passive isolation is going to make a difference.
> 
> Having spent a day with them I don't have a lot to add to my review above, no issues noted. I'm surprised by the comment about soundstage as I find it to be as good as on the L2Ps, even wider actually. The tips make a big difference though. I tried the L2P tips in medium as they made the MTW2 sit "flusher" with the ear but that came at a significant cost in terms of width compared to the original tips.  As for the FILL there's really no comparison IMHO, the MTW2 are head and above in terms of SQ, especially for the soundstage with the FILL sounding very very narrow.
> 
> ...



I felt that the soundstage definitely has height and fantastic overall separation. However, I did feel that everything was happening within the head. Obviously most IEMs struggle with soundstage but expected a bit more width on these than I got. Overall still think they sound great! They sound much better than the FiiLs I was just noting that they have a similar sound signature.


----------



## TK33

With regards to QC, I think it seems to plague all TWS regardless of price point unfortunately. 

For example, I never had battery issues with my original MTW, which I still use almost daily. I got it last summer and came back last Nov from a 7 day vacation and the buds nor case were completely drained (I didnt want to take them to a beach resort so left them at home fully charged to test battery).  Last night, I watched 3 full episodes of Narcos straight using my MTWs while connected to my Surface Pro 4.  Others seemed to have worse luck when it came to the battery. 

On the other hand, I had battery issues with my first pair of the MW07 Go. The second paid I got have been working perfectly so far. I also exchanged my JBL Reflect Flows for a new pair due to connectivity issues. Hopefully as the tech matures, these issues will start to go away.


----------



## posedown

hello,

I am considering buying the mifo o7 double BA. are there any users who own it? it is available from cesdeals for EUR 78.-
unfortunately I don't know the site.

thanks


----------



## tma6

Well, now I’ve returned the MTW2s, would I be insane to get these? Never ordered anything directly from Linsoul, feels like a bit of a gamble lol.

https://www.linsoul.com/products/newmine-r10-tws


----------



## howdy

BigZ12 said:


> You can see if it's on or off in the app.
> 
> You can tap the buds with a commando to toggle ANC on/off (standard is 1 tap on the right I believe, I changed it to double tap on the left). But the sound when tapping the ANC commando is the same whether it's on or off, so it's not possible to know that way. That must be a bug.





tma6 said:


> Well, now I’ve returned the MTW2s, would I be insane to get these? Never ordered anything directly from Linsoul, feels like a bit of a gamble lol.
> 
> https://www.linsoul.com/products/newmine-r10-tws


Those look really interesting. I, however think the Senns would be a overall better. I'm still Loving my Sennheiser MTW1, still sounding amazing with great fit. My Sonys are still number 1 though.


----------



## jant71

tma6 said:


> Well, now I’ve returned the MTW2s, would I be insane to get these? Never ordered anything directly from Linsoul, feels like a bit of a gamble lol.
> 
> https://www.linsoul.com/products/newmine-r10-tws



If a bunch of Bellsing armatures impress you. The Geekfly GF8 is less $$$ so less at risk and a couple have had them. One here and they liked the sound better than either the Sony or the Senn, I forget which one(think the Sony) but at least it has a good impression or two and at least you can order from the US I think.


----------



## Ian61

which is best in term of sound quality and customization, FIIL T1x , Galaxy buds, and 1more stylish ???? i cant decide which one should i buy, i like thumpy bass, but not sacrificing the clarity and vocal


----------



## DigDub

posedown said:


> hello,
> 
> I am considering buying the mifo o7 double BA. are there any users who own it? it is available from cesdeals for EUR 78.-
> unfortunately I don't know the site.
> ...


Overall pretty good sound, elevated mids and mid-treble which gives a sense of clarity. Bass is typical armature - fast and without the slam of dynamic drivers. The buds and case are small and study. Touch controls work well and the mic sounds clear during conversations on both ends.


----------



## SoundChoice

Luke Skywalker said:


> Yeah definitely get the N6's.  Sometimes for certain kinds of music they sound as good as my Lola's.  Gonna use my new WF-1000XM3's for paperweights I think



The Sony’s are average until you get a seal, then they blossom and the ANC comes alive. It’s worth it to tip roll.


----------



## eiraku (Apr 11, 2020)

assassin10000 said:


> On the usb charging port cover is the S/N, which will tell the version.



Problem is the numbers (and alphabets) in my SN seem random as eff compared to the strings being thrown around. Like there's no 19xx anywhere in the sequence at all.

That said, I have mailed SC for confirmation and they're saying it's the latest rev. Supposedly anyway.

And yeah I'm not getting any hissing on mine at all, but I found that this is VERY source dependant. Like in some YouTube vids, you can hear BG hiss pretty clearly... yet in others (Forgotten Weapons to name one), the BG is as quiet as a grave. Maybe that's just normal recording hiss, God knows.



assassin10000 said:


> As far as TWS+, you can start playing music then put the right piece back in the case and shut the lid. If the left plays with no pause, then it has TWS+. If it pauses, then connects to the left it does not.
> 
> 
> My Pixel 3 XL is also has a Snapdragon 845 SoC (currently android 10) and does not have TWS+. Wish it did, I'd get another hour or two (or more) play time.



Well, if I bring the L2P out *left* *bud* *first* and put back the right one in as you have mentioned, yep the left one just seamlessly goes into mono mode (paired with my OP6). Also seamlessly goes back to stereo once I bring the right one back out.

However, (under the same conditions above) if I put the left bud back in before the right, it pauses to connect.

Reverse everything if I bring the right bud out first.

Kinda sounds like TWS but not TWS+ to me hmmm.

EDIT: Just tested the COA, they work the same way as above as well. Maybe it's the OP6.

EDIT2: Found something interesting.



mikp said:


> somepne tweets about japanese releases mentioned
> 
> _To enable TWS+, it requires some patch to native Android, Qualcomm said. However, that patch is not yet released from Qcom and all of 845  smartphone cannot suppot TWS+, currently._
> 
> I read something about it some months ago, but cant find the link. So for now its only qualcomm tws, that seems to work fine.



I'm still hanging on to Oreo for some odd reason (upgrading involves a complete wipe and that's just too much of a PITA) so maybe it's in there if I (finally decide to) go up to Pie or 10.

Maybe. Anybody with an updated OP6 can confirm?


----------



## assassin10000

eiraku said:


> Problem is the numbers (and alphabets) in my SN seem random as eff compared to the strings being thrown around. Like there's no 19xx anywhere in the sequence at all.
> 
> That said, I have mailed SC for confirmation and they're saying it's the latest rev. Supposedly anyway.



The numbers start from the second line of the S/N, below the random letters and numbers above it.

S/N:xxx1x
*194X*xxxx

If you have the newest version, perhaps its moved into the 20+ S/N range?


----------



## IEManiac

BigZ12 said:


> Sorry for a bit off topic, but since I am going to use a TWS with it, I ask here anyway.
> Do any of you know of any Android tablet with at least AAC/AptX? (all I own is Apple, but I want to update myself with an Android device  )
> Most Android phones have both AAC/AptX/AptX HD and some with LDAC as well.
> But I don't find any tablets who support other than SBC.
> If you don't know this, do you have any suggestions which forums where I can ask?


My Samsung Tab S4 10.5" has aptX and LDAC.


----------



## RobinFood (Apr 11, 2020)

SoundChoice said:


> The Sony’s are average until you get a seal, then they blossom and the ANC comes alive. It’s worth it to tip roll.



Yes, finding the right tips suddenly turns the anc on. It is super weird, one size smaller or bigger and I still hear sound. The right size and suddenly everything disappears. Spinfit 360 m size for me, the included tips just didn't do it.

The sound I found is a sound that grows on you. When I first heard it I thought it was average, but going back to my other earphones they didn't sound good anymore. I had the same thing happen the first time I tried an etymotics earphone. I suggest everyone try them for a week or two using just them and then try your old earphones again for the sound. It is really good, but doesn't wow you like the intense bass from the lp2.


----------



## eiraku (Apr 11, 2020)

assassin10000 said:


> The numbers start from the second line of the S/N, below the random letters and numbers above it.
> 
> S/N:xxx1x
> *194X*xxxx
> ...



Surprisingly, mine's not even 20++. The number starts with a 1Axx instead, but that's what SC/Anker possibly does once the numbers exceed 19xx.

Possibly lol.

On a side note, the top part of the SN printing is kinda sorta easy to smear off if you try to get the overly tight Type-C port cover off with an ill-placed fingernail. Thankfully I have photos of it (taken on day one, just in case) and have jotted the string down somewhere, but man, they really should have printed the number down somewhere safer (like the underside of the sliding cover).

Also, might just try updating to Android 10 to see if I can get TWS+ running. Who knows. Its gonna take a helluva lot of time transferring things over though, hopefully it'll be worth it.


----------



## TheLionelHutz

tma6 said:


> Well, now I’ve returned the MTW2s, would I be insane to get these? Never ordered anything directly from Linsoul, feels like a bit of a gamble lol.
> 
> https://www.linsoul.com/products/newmine-r10-tws


Does anyone know where to find the codec support information for those Newmine R series? I've been looking at a couple of them but can't find whether they even support AAC, let alone aptX.


----------



## go0gle

my lp2 sn starts with 1939 .. pretty certain its from the first batch! still pumping that sweet low end ❤


----------



## PixelSquish

Been home today just alternating between playing playstation and listening to the Senn MTW2 indoors and on dog walks, and man they are nice to listen to. So much fun. Really happy with this purchase.


----------



## koven (Apr 12, 2020)

I returned the MTW2 yesterday after about a week of use. I think the Buds+ are more comfortable with better call/voice quality but most importantly I kept feeling the XM3 sounds better, and they're 1/3 the price. I tried stock tips, foams, SpinFit, I thought it was a seal/fit issue at first but ultimately had to concede that the SQ was not for me. The bass is excellent, probably the only trait superior to XM3. Treble is hot but passable, but the midrange felt recessed and disconnected whereas XM3 excels at midrange. MTW2 also came across congested on certain songs, the XM3 rarely feels that way to me. Just my two cents YMMV of course. I know plenty of folks are enjoying them so maybe my unit was defective, not sure but sadly I don't feel inclined to try another set.


----------



## bronco1015

i've got $128.00 left from an amazon giftcard i won at work burning a hole in my virtual pocket haha. anything you've seen worth picking up? I was actually looking for a good neckband like the Forza Wireless i used to have till they were stolen, but nothing is speaking to me. So thought i'd see if there were any true Wireless models you've picked up recently that you might recomend. If you do happen to have suggestions for other audio products pm me.


----------



## RobinFood

koven said:


> I returned the MTW2 yesterday after about a week of use. I think the Buds+ are more comfortable with better call/voice quality but most importantly I kept feeling the XM3 sounds better, and they're 1/3 the price. I tried stock tips, foams, SpinFit, I thought it was a seal/fit issue at first but ultimately had to concede that the SQ was not for me. The bass is excellent, probably the only trait superior to XM3. Treble is hot but passable, but the midrange felt recessed and disconnected whereas XM3 excels at midrange. MTW2 also came across congested on certain songs, the XM3 rarely feels that way to me. Just my two cents YMMV of course. I know plenty of folks are enjoying them so maybe my unit was defective, not sure but sadly I don't feel inclined to try another set.



I just repurchased the xm3, this time not from Amazon, and have not encountered any of the annoying glitches I had with the last two sets I got from there.

I really debated going the extra mile and getting the Sennheiser MTW2, but the reported hiss really killed them for me. The xm3 has no hiss with anc off. I find most APTx true wireless buds have a faint hiss that really bothers me for movies or videos.

The xm3 is also fast enough to play Overwatch on, and seamlessly switches from my computer to my phone to my dap without having to go in the Bluetooth menus.

I also thought of getting the Technics, but worried about glitches since the first run if tws is usually not the most polished. I also expect they will get hit by price adjustment over the next year. The xm3 just seemed like the safer buy right now.


----------



## bronco1015

tma6 said:


> Well, now I’ve returned the MTW2s, would I be insane to get these? Never ordered anything directly from Linsoul, feels like a bit of a gamble lol.
> 
> https://www.linsoul.com/products/newmine-r10-tws


I freaking see linsoul adds so many places online. Especially fb which i've used a lot mor since this whole quarantine started for me.


----------



## bronco1015

For anyone who may be interested, you can get the Bomaker SiFi for $35 on Amazon right now. you save $5 for being a prime member, and $10 with the code:
CXLD4CAY
that code is right below the list price.


----------



## Sebulr

bronco1015 said:


> For anyone who may be interested, you can get the Bomaker SiFi for $35 on Amazon right now. you save $5 for being a prime member, and $10 with the code:
> CXLD4CAY
> that code is right below the list price.


The bomaker sifi are a great set of earphones. I'm tempted to get a backup pair


----------



## eiraku (Apr 12, 2020)

Alright, just finished updating my OnePlus 6 to Android 10.... and nope,* I'm still only getting "regular" TWS with the L2P rather than TWS+*... which is a shame considering its SD845 proc. But eyyy, at least AptX is still working over TWS on OOS 10.3.2 stable, considering the myriad of Bluetooth issues I've heard the 10 Betas had. So yeah, unless somebody manages to find a mod that adds the TWS+ code to the OP6 firmware, I'm probably SOL until upgrade to something else. *EDIT: Apparently things aren't that simple, read EDIT2 below.*

That said, one silver lining is that the SoundCore app seems to store its settings per account in the cloud. Reinstalling the app bought me back all my EQ settings and tweaks, which is a welcome bonus (vs having to set everything up again from scratch).

EDIT2: Well upon further digging, it seems that TWS+ is INDEED working on OOS 10.3.2 stable in the OnePlus 6, just not with the L2P. See spoilered screenshots below.



Spoiler















Here it's pretty clear that the COAs are connecting fine through TWS+ (both earbuds connected at once - further confirmed with a trip to Dev Options where "AptX TWS+" is selected with it connected). The L2P do not connect through TWS+, only through "normal" TWS, even if I tweak the settings around in Dev Opts AFTER connecting the buds (which might not even work lol) or prior to connection (in which case the settings simply don't stick for some reason).

So yeah, things are a bit sketchy at this point TBH. Either OP6 OOS 10.3.2 has a broken TWS+ implementation, or the L2P is just MADE to not connect through TWS+. Which I can only confirm if somebody else can make the L2P connect through another phone (or another OP6 custom firmware) in TWS+ mode (both earbuds connected, one side active).

To be fair though, connecting through TWS+ isn't all that different either (as far as it's implemented in the COAs anyway). Putting the "active" bud away still cuts connection for a short moment, before the other one automatically resumes in mono... so it's *not* entirely seamless.

Only real difference with the L2P in TWS is that you have to press a button to resume on the "non-dominant" side compared to auto-resume (with a pause) on the COAs. Also, there's a possible L/R battery drain difference between TWS vs TWS+, but I don't really have multiple devices to test the COAs with (nor do I plan to, considering their _backup_ status).

Another thing I *have* noticed however... is that for some reason, the COAs seem to sound a bit better back when it could only connect through "normal" TWS before I updated my OP6. Or at least that was how I remembered them to sound like. It might just be placebo and I can't confirm unless I can A-B both.


----------



## Caipirina

Sebulr said:


> The bomaker sifi are a great set of earphones. I'm tempted to get a backup pair



I finally caved in and ordered a pair from amazon.de, usually I see them for 50€, but now it looks like 40€ ... and had them shipped to my 'summer residence'  in GER... and they arrived already ... question is when will I eventually get there? Will flying around be a thing again come June / July???  .. who knows.


----------



## TheLionelHutz (Apr 12, 2020)

eiraku said:


> Alright, just finished updating my OnePlus 6 to Android 10.... and nope,* I'm still only getting "regular" TWS with the L2P rather than TWS+*... which is a shame considering its SD845 proc. But eyyy, at least AptX is still working over TWS on OOS 10.3.2 stable, considering the myriad of Bluetooth issues I've heard the 10 Betas had. So yeah, unless somebody manages to find a mod that adds the TWS+ code to the OP6 firmware, I'm probably SOL until upgrade to something else. *EDIT: Apparently things aren't that simple, read EDIT2 below.*
> 
> That said, one silver lining is that the SoundCore app seems to store its settings per account in the cloud. Reinstalling the app bought me back all my EQ settings and tweaks, which is a welcome bonus (vs having to set everything up again from scratch).
> 
> ...


Nevermind, posted too fast and read too slow. Carry on!


----------



## tma6

I know I’m super late to the party on this one but finally ordered the Sony xm3s on Amazon bc they had a one day delivery time, and they arrived this morning. Still very early impressions but after some EQ fiddling I’m really liking what I’m hearing, even coming from the MTW2s. Will provide updates later in the week. If anyone has EQ suggestions lemme know! (That clear bass slider is already at +4 for me  )


----------



## dwil

Hey guys... What would you guys recommend as an upgrade to the bomaker sifi? I lost my pair of bomaker sifis, loved them. Not sure if i should just buy another one or if I should try something different. What do you guys recommend?


----------



## Sebulr

dwil said:


> Hey guys... What would you guys recommend as an upgrade to the bomaker sifi? I lost my pair of bomaker sifis, loved them. Not sure if i should just buy another one or if I should try something different. What do you guys recommend?


Get another set, they are great. 
I recommend the mifo 05. They aren't really an upgrade apart from case battery life. They have far more polite upper mids and treble. They are a bit too polite for my liking although they are very comfortable. I prefer the bomaker most of the time.


----------



## bronco1015

eiraku said:


> Alright, just finished updating my OnePlus 6 to Android 10.... and nope,* I'm still only getting "regular" TWS with the L2P rather than TWS+*... which is a shame considering its SD845 proc. But eyyy, at least AptX is still working over TWS on OOS 10.3.2 stable, considering the myriad of Bluetooth issues I've heard the 10 Betas had. So yeah, unless somebody manages to find a mod that adds the TWS+ code to the OP6 firmware, I'm probably SOL until upgrade to something else. *EDIT: Apparently things aren't that simple, read EDIT2 below.*
> 
> That said, one silver lining is that the SoundCore app seems to store its settings per account in the cloud. Reinstalling the app bought me back all my EQ settings and tweaks, which is a welcome bonus (vs having to set everything up again from scratch).
> 
> ...


I don't have the l2P anymore to send a screenshot, but the issue might just be with the OP6. Which seems weird that any qc45 phone would have that issue, yours is the first i've heard of any phone doing that actually. But i used my l2P with both my V40 and miMix2S, and both phones connected to them via TWS plus. There was a prompt to enable it in both cases, after i'd paired the first one. Even though the prompt was there i still had audio coming through both. i excepted the prompt, and could use either whenever i wanted by themselves.


----------



## bronco1015

Sebulr said:


> The bomaker sifi are a great set of earphones. I'm tempted to get a backup pair


They are indeed. Worth it at that price imo.


----------



## tma6

Aaaand the Sonys stutter with my windows computer lol


----------



## Synthy

tma6 said:


> Aaaand the Sonys stutter with my windows computer lol


windows computers generally have pretty bad bluetooth chips in them compared to phones or newer macs (like really bad bluetooth chips).


anyway, i was gonna try the TFZ X3 for the combination of multi BA with apt-x, but if the Astrotec S90 pro have Knowles BAs in them i think i'd rather that. Knowles sound significantly better in my experience. if anyone else knows of an all Knowles BA TWS lmk before i pull the trigger on this one.


----------



## voicemaster (Apr 12, 2020)

For those of you who have 1more ANC, have you dowloaded the new firmware (3.44)? I downloaded mine a couple weeks back, but due to covid-19, I have to get hospitalized for over a week. I am recovering right now at home and self quarantining myself, so now I have time to actually listen to my 1more ANC. The changelog say that they have tweaked the sound when the ANC is active because a lot of people complained that the sound become muffled (elevated bass and reduced treble) with the ANC turn on. They do change their tuning now, while the ANC is turned on, the bass is not overly prominent and the treble stays the same as with no ANC. Not only that, the sound without ANC also changed. They are now more balance, before iirc the bass is still the most dominant, but it only affect the mid a little bit. Now, the bass has been reduced to a tighter bass. The mid remained unchanged, while the treble actually got some boost. The treble has more splash on them now. This sound signature doesn't change significantly when turning on the ANC. I think they finally hit the nail with their sound tuning across the board (AND on or off) and it actually sounds more balance (shallow V sound signature) than before.
Oh and I am using foamies for my 1more ANC.


----------



## GeeD (Apr 12, 2020)

voicemaster said:


> For those of you who have 1more ANC...snip



This is super weird because mine were great before hand and 03.44 has turned then into a tinny little box.  Can I ask where you got yours? because I'm seriously thinking there is something VERY different between 1More USA and getting them from Aliexpress??

EDIT, forgot to add the obvious ...good to hear you are on the mend


----------



## voicemaster (Apr 12, 2020)

GeeD said:


> This is super weird because mine were great before hand and 03.44 has turned then into a tinny little box.  Can I ask where you got yours? because I'm seriously thinking there is something VERY different between 1More USA and getting them from Aliexpress??
> 
> EDIT, forgot to add the obvious ...good to hear you are on the mend


I got mine directly from 1more website.
And true, it might sounds tinny at first, but you will get used to it and appreciate the more balance tuning (no more boomy bass). Tho, I still miss those punchy bass on some songs. Now, if they added custom EQ that will be a real winner right there.


----------



## DatGameh

Does anyone know the general reliability of Soundcore's earphones?
They're pretty popular brands afaik - or at least has gotten popular as of late - but do wonder if they are sketchy.
(I'm planning to get the Spirit X2 for its long life, earhook and waterproofing)


----------



## 13gsc13

Anyone thinking of the new KZ S2 ?


----------



## eiraku (Apr 13, 2020)

bronco1015 said:


> I don't have the l2P anymore to send a screenshot, but the issue might just be with the OP6. Which seems weird that any qc45 phone would have that issue, yours is the first i've heard of any phone doing that actually. But i used my l2P with both my V40 and miMix2S, and both phones connected to them via TWS plus. There was a prompt to enable it in both cases, after i'd paired the first one. Even though the prompt was there i still had audio coming through both. i excepted the prompt, and could use either whenever i wanted by themselves.



Considering the rather buggy nature of the current crop of  "stable" Android 10 ROMs being churned out by OP (at least for the older phones), yeah it might just be the OP6. Still rather funky that TWS+ would work fine for the COA but not with the L2P though, the Creatives must be doing something the Soundcores aren't. 

Or maybe I'm just not pairing them right or something (currently doing the whole "reset and re-pair" thing that SC tells us to do).


----------



## sjino

13gsc13 said:


> Anyone thinking of the new KZ S2 ?


I'm in. The reviews unanimously said it was better than the S1, so I got in on the Indiego early bird pricing. It was only for three days though, so I'm not sure where someone would buy now...

Shipping might not be for a while, but I don't mind waiting.


----------



## tgx78 (Apr 12, 2020)

This reviewer opened up the Galaxy Buds Plus to take a closer look at their square shaped DD driver.
Intriguing driver tech for sure.


----------



## DatGameh

13gsc13 said:


> Anyone thinking of the new KZ S2 ?


As attractive as the price may be, I think you may want to be skeptical first.
Typically for these indiegogo products, the products that get shipped out are basically "beta" products. They have lots of quirks about them that will be fixed months after initial release.
The early bird price cut is quite big too. Even for a product designed to be affordable, an almost half price cut is too good to be true.

In my opinion, don't preorder, no matter how tempting it may be. It is likely that you may encounter problems that may force you to get a replacement, which may result in you spending a total of more than the S2's full price.


----------



## chinmie

Synthy said:


> windows computers generally have pretty bad bluetooth chips in them compared to phones or newer macs (like really bad bluetooth chips).
> 
> 
> anyway, i was gonna try the TFZ X3 for the combination of multi BA with apt-x, but if the Astrotec S90 pro have Knowles BAs in them i think i'd rather that. Knowles sound significantly better in my experience. if anyone else knows of an all Knowles BA TWS lmk before i pull the trigger on this one.



if I'm not mistaken, the Shanling mtw100 also uses knowles driver



voicemaster said:


> For those of you who have 1more ANC, have you dowloaded the new firmware (3.44)? I downloaded mine a couple weeks back, but due to covid-19, I have to get hospitalized for over a week. I am recovering right now at home and self quarantining myself, so now I have time to actually listen to my 1more ANC. The changelog say that they have tweaked the sound when the ANC is active because a lot of people complained that the sound become muffled (elevated bass and reduced treble) with the ANC turn on. They do change their tuning now, while the ANC is turned on, the bass is not overly prominent and the treble stays the same as with no ANC. Not only that, the sound without ANC also changed. They are now more balance, before iirc the bass is still the most dominant, but it only affect the mid a little bit. Now, the bass has been reduced to a tighter bass. The mid remained unchanged, while the treble actually got some boost. The treble has more splash on them now. This sound signature doesn't change significantly when turning on the ANC. I think they finally hit the nail with their sound tuning across the board (AND on or off) and it actually sounds more balance (shallow V sound signature) than before.
> Oh and I am using foamies for my 1more ANC.



man... glad to hear that you're okay. i hope you make full recovery


----------



## howdy (Apr 12, 2020)

Synthy said:


> windows computers generally have pretty bad bluetooth chips in them compared to phones or newer macs (like really bad bluetooth chips).
> 
> 
> anyway, i was gonna try the TFZ X3 for the combination of multi BA with apt-x, but if the Astrotec S90 pro have Knowles BAs in them i think i'd rather that. Knowles sound significantly better in my experience. if anyone else knows of an all Knowles BA TWS lmk before i pull the trigger on this one.


Good ol' Earin M2 have the knowles BAs and they are real small. I've had mine for awhile and still enjoy them.
And they are still for sale on there site.


----------



## Caipirina

13gsc13 said:


> Anyone thinking of the new KZ S2 ?


I was a bit more exited when it looked like they will have AptX. Now... I will wait for reviews & final price.


----------



## assassin10000

howdy said:


> Good ol' Earin M2 have the knowles BAs and they are real small. I've had mine for awhile and still enjoy them.
> And they are still for sale on there site.



I'm hoping there is a M3 in the pipeline. With longer battery life and a case that supports Qi charging.


----------



## bronco1015

howdy said:


> Good ol' Earin M2 have the knowles BAs and they are real small. I've had mine for awhile and still enjoy them.
> And they are still for sale on there site." i've always thought that if a 3rd gen of these come out i'll give them a shot. i'd also like to see V-Moda release a True Wireless model. Though since Roland bought them not sure what to expect. But if they built off the sound of the Forza Wireless they'd be a pretty solid option imo.


----------



## tma6

Just wanted to update with some early impressions: the SONY xm3s sound just fantastic with DSEE HD on along with ANC. It kills the battery, but sounds just plain excellent for a TWS set. It could be a matter of personal preference, but I find that on these settings the xm3s sound even slightly better than the MTW2s to my ears. They certainly have a wider stage, though perhaps slightly less vocal detail and the bass is slightly more tame with a little less texture. I prefer the overall tonality though, particularly the more natural timbre of the mids and highs. The main thing that I'm loving about the xm3s is the speed - I know it's a dynamic driver IEM, but almost sounds like a BA with how crisp and forward everything is while maintaining the richness and punch of a DD. The one issue is that you can't use the DSEE HD function with EQ, and I found that without the DSEE HD on and with EQ some highs (particularly splashy cymbals e.g. Snarky Puppy) become a bit grainy. However, with DSEE HD on the highs really gain a bunch of detail and clarity. Also, ANC adds a bit of low end which is perfect for DSEE HD with EQ off. I think this is making me realize how necessary something like a digital upscaling function is for true wireless at this point in time since higher frequencies are normally what get sacrificed and crushed in compressed audio files. Anyway, just wanted to say that these sound great so far, and will definitely provide further audio impressions as the week progresses.


----------



## RobinFood (Apr 13, 2020)

tma6 said:


> Just wanted to update with some early impressions: the SONY xm3s sound just fantastic with DSEE HD on along with ANC. It kills the battery, but sounds just plain excellent for a TWS set. It could be a matter of personal preference, but I find that on these settings the xm3s sound even slightly better than the MTW2s to my ears. They certainly have a wider stage, though perhaps slightly less vocal detail and the bass is slightly more tame with a little less texture. I prefer the overall tonality though, particularly the more natural timbre of the mids and highs. The main thing that I'm loving about the xm3s is the speed - I know it's a dynamic driver IEM, but almost sounds like a BA with how crisp and forward everything is while maintaining the richness and punch of a DD. The one issue is that you can't use the DSEE HD function with EQ, and I found that without the DSEE HD on and with EQ some highs (particularly splashy cymbals e.g. Snarky Puppy) become a bit grainy. However, with DSEE HD on the highs really gain a bunch of detail and clarity. Also, ANC adds a bit of low end which is perfect for DSEE HD with EQ off. I think this is making me realize how necessary something like a digital upscaling function is for true wireless at this point in time since higher frequencies are normally what get sacrificed and crushed in compressed audio files. Anyway, just wanted to say that these sound great so far, and will definitely provide further audio impressions as the week progresses.



I prefer the eq over the dsee. It's fun to go on crinacle's website and use the graph tool to match it to other earphones and try to match it.


----------



## eiraku (Apr 13, 2020)

Caipirina said:


> I was a bit more exited when it looked like they will have AptX. Now... I will wait for reviews & final price.



Same. Even if we can argue about the benefits of AptX all day considering both the WFXM3 and the T1X are still rather loved without it... I'm a bit partial to having it around.

Notable, however, is that the ads popping out for these on my FB feed was what initially pushed me into buying the COA, and eventually the L2P... about a day after lol.

Also, now that someone has mentioned that the L2P *IS* capable of TWS+ after all, I wonder what I could do to *force* the OP6 into a TWS+ connection with the L2Ps considering it CAN with the COAs... and that I'm rooted and all.


----------



## webvan

One oddity I noticed (it's in the manual) with the MTW2 is that you need to press BOTH sides at the same time for 3 seconds to enter pairing mode, pressing on only one side will generate a "pairing" prompt but it will not be able to associate with another device.


----------



## tma6

RobinFood said:


> I prefer the eq over the dsee. It's fun to go on crinacle's website and use the graph tool to match it to other earphones and try to match it.



Definitely like the EQ and overall it’s super clean. The main thing I noticed with DSEE is a pretty significant improvement in the accuracy and crispness in high frequencies, particularly with cymbals which are super important for me given the music I primarily listen to. DSEE also seems to improve the stage a little too. Honestly though, the EQ is some of the better implementations I’ve seen in how well it’s able to change the sound without distortion or too much tonal weirdness.


----------



## Luke Skywalker (Apr 13, 2020)

SoundChoice said:


> The Sony’s are average until you get a seal, then they blossom and the ANC comes alive. It’s worth it to tip roll.


You know, I had a heck of a time finding any tips that fit - Spinfits, foam, etc.  I finally found the Acoustune's and love them.  They seem to have a good seal but I'm not very knowledgeable on this stuff.  Do you have a link or something that tells how to tip roll?  Thanks!!

*Edit* Would you mind sharing your EQ settings that make the Sony's blossom?  Using "+1, +1, +2, 0, +1 CB=2" right now


----------



## voicemaster

chinmie said:


> if I'm not mistaken, the Shanling mtw100 also uses knowles driver
> 
> 
> 
> man... glad to hear that you're okay. i hope you make full recovery


Thank you. Yeah it was rough, even now I am only at 90% recovery. Been enjoying 1more ANC right now.


----------



## Francesco Montanari

voicemaster said:


> Thank you. Yeah it was rough, even now I am only at 90% recovery. Been enjoying 1more ANC right now.



Fingers crossed for you!


----------



## voicemaster

Francesco Montanari said:


> Fingers crossed for you!


Thank you


----------



## jant71

Caipirina said:


> I am pretty sure not too long ago i was sharing my search for an ear hook style TWS with AptX and that all I could find was the Soundcore spirit X, which only seems to be out in very limited numbers. (And somehow I can’t find my own post) ... now I am finding another ‘odd one out’, the Mpow Flame Pro!!! Look nice! Bit hefty at 70$, but yes: AptX.
> 
> now, in another mystery: this is currently only available in SPAIN on AE.
> 
> in other ‘not really released’ news, Anker also has / had some called Spirit Dot in the pipeline, which didn’t look too shabby either.



Seen these?... https://www.amazon.com/Bluetooth-Ea...9Y2xpY2tSZWRpcmVjdCZkb05vdExvZ0NsaWNrPXRydWU=


----------



## Planet Patrol

What's the best budget chinese TWS?
Is there an active thread for them on head-fi?


----------



## Linus Jian

Am I the only one who doesn't like the sound of the XM3s?

I've been using them for 2 months and ABed with N6 pros extensively and in my opinion the N6 pros crushed the XM3s in terms of SQ.

Been eyeing on the MTW2s coz the N6 pros don't have ANC, if the SQ of them is on par with the N6 pro I will be super satisfied.


----------



## Caipirina

jant71 said:


> Seen these?... https://www.amazon.com/Bluetooth-Ea...9Y2xpY2tSZWRpcmVjdCZkb05vdExvZ0NsaWNrPXRydWU=


Interesting... I have seen this model around on AliExpress but never claimed to have aptX ... and even this one smells fishy. AptX is barely mentioned in the ad copy... only once in that logo collection. And then in text: 

so, I am highly suspicious in this case. Plus, can’t access amazon.com  ... heck, can’t access anything anymore, seems most AliExpress sellers have given up on shipping stuff to Sri Lanka.


----------



## Luchyres

Linus Jian said:


> Am I the only one who doesn't like the sound of the XM3s?
> 
> I've been using them for 2 months and ABed with N6 pros extensively and in my opinion the N6 pros crushed the XM3s in terms of SQ.
> 
> Been eyeing on the MTW2s coz the N6 pros don't have ANC, if the SQ of them is on par with the N6 pro I will be super satisfied.



I did not like the XM3's from a SQ standpoint and returned them. Bought them at launch.

My track record (qualifiers: I like a lot of quality bass, but not at the expense of the mid/upper, I prefer DD to BA, I listen to a lot of rap, R&B, types of electronic/produced music, and I am pretttyyyyy picky):

Big proponent of the N6's - they have their limitations, and no ANC etc, but they sound really amazing, handle calls well, and are very pocketable. My daily TWS. (Before that, the Nuarl NT01AX)

I was eyeing the MTW2 - but I don't think the sound is going to do it for me, the case is bigger than I want, you can't use them independently for calls etc etc.

I had the MTW, enjoyed the sound, returned for NFMI noise and crackle in calls (pre firmware fix) as well as battery drain.

L2P - The crossover for the BA/DD was too peaky and sibilant for me, I liked the bass, but the mids/upper just sounded peaky and compressed to me IIRC (I posted about it 100s of pages ago)

Sound-wise, I'm looking forward to the Sony WF-XB700 (12mm DD)

Spec-wise (ANC) I'm not really sure what I'm on the lookout for.... but let me know if you like the MTW2 ?


----------



## tma6 (Apr 13, 2020)

Linus Jian said:


> Am I the only one who doesn't like the sound of the XM3s?
> 
> I've been using them for 2 months and ABed with N6 pros extensively and in my opinion the N6 pros crushed the XM3s in terms of SQ.
> 
> Been eyeing on the MTW2s coz the N6 pros don't have ANC, if the SQ of them is on par with the N6 pro I will be super satisfied.




Interesting, I've been an absolutely huge fan of the N6 pros, and been doing A-B testing between the xm3s and the N6 Pros for the past couple days or so. I find the N6 pros still have the most realistic and quasi-audiophile grade sq on the market. The xm3s still provide a natural and realistic experience, though the N6 pros have a little more definition in the highs and mid-range. But the N6 Pros definitely don't destroy the xm3s in my opinion, the bass on the xm3s is more punchy and rich, which I find important on many songs, and the xm3s are a bit faster and warmer overall. Were you using the xm3s with HSEE and ANC on w no EQ? I find that they sound fantastic using these settings. I also find that they lose a little bit of their definition with EQ on, with some added graininess in the highs, whereas with the settings I mentioned I actually think they come close to the detail retrieval of the N6 Pros to my ears. Audio is definitely subjective though and 100% love the N6 Pros, they're still my favorite for pure sq. 




Luchyres said:


> I did not like the XM3's from a SQ standpoint and returned them. Bought them at launch.
> 
> My track record (qualifiers: I like a lot of quality bass, but not at the expense of the mid/upper, I prefer DD to BA, I listen to a lot of rap, R&B, types of electronic/produced music, and I am pretttyyyyy picky):
> 
> ...



I really liked the MTW2s until they crapped out on me. They have some of the best bass you can get on a TWS right now and for the types of music you listen to they sound absolutely fantastic, particularly since they have truly great vocal detail and overall richness. Also found the tonality very good for those genres - i.e. a bit more on the side of a refined consumer oriented timbre. I'm still surprised you didnt like the xm3s though. On the settings I've mentioned I think they're some of the most versatile TWS I've tried so far, have great ANC, and it seems that they've significantly improved the call quality since they came out bc I've had zero issues at all. They also have a more natural tonality a wider stage, and a faster transience than the MTW2s. Definitely all of this is a matter of personal preference, but I really like the sound of the xm3s so far.


----------



## hifi80sman

Interesting comparison review of the MTW vs. MTW2.


----------



## pubtronic

chinmie said:


> if I'm not mistaken, the Shanling mtw100 also uses knowles driver
> 
> 
> 
> man... glad to hear that you're okay. i hope you make full recovery


 
glad to know you safe and got released from hospital


----------



## dhc0329

Need an opinion from wireless bluetooth expert if I can humbly ask. From what I read SQ is decided by the wireless headphone which processes
the digital to analog signal from whichever DAPs transmitting. Thus, provided the same codec (i.e, APX, AAC, LDAC etc) were used between two DAPs, 
the SQ should be identical. Is this correct statement? I am getting totally different SQ between two DAPs I used connecting to same wireless headphone, 
so I am somewhat confused. Anyone care to comment. Sorry about my ignorance on this matter.


----------



## SoundChoice

eiraku said:


> Same. Even if we can argue about the benefits of AptX all day considering both the WFXM3 and the T1X are still rather loved without it... I'm a bit partial to having it around.
> 
> Notable, however, is that the ads popping out for these on my FB feed was what initially pushed me into buying the COA, and eventually the L2P... about a day after lol.
> 
> Also, now that someone has mentioned that the L2P *IS* capable of TWS+ after all, I wonder what I could do to *force* the OP6 into a TWS+ connection with the L2Ps considering it CAN with the COAs... and that I'm rooted and all.



If I have both the T1X and WFXM3, will the L2P offer me anything new, or mostly a side-grade?


----------



## tma6

SoundChoice said:


> If I have both the T1X and WFXM3, will the L2P offer me anything new, or mostly a side-grade?



In my opinion the this would be a side-grade with respect to the xm3s. The L2Ps are awesome and have intense, resonant bass, wide soundstage for TWS, and articulate highs, but the Sonys have a more balanced, natural, and transparent sound to my ears. Sony's bass is also excellent and a bit more controlled than the L2Ps. If you're looking for a good pair to work out with though (since you cant really do that w the Sonys) and don't mind paying the money, I don't think you'll disappointed with the L2P's sound quality, as they provide a unique and powerful sound that is rare for most TWS out there right now. They also have a pretty solid EQ in the soundcore app.


----------



## Pro-Jules

dhc0329 said:


> Need an opinion from wireless bluetooth expert if I can humbly ask. From what I read SQ is decided by the wireless headphone which processes
> the digital to analog signal from whichever DAPs transmitting. Thus, provided the same codec (i.e, APX, AAC, LDAC etc) were used between two DAPs,
> the SQ should be identical. Is this correct statement? I am getting totally different SQ between two DAPs I used connecting to same wireless headphone,
> so I am somewhat confused. Anyone care to comment. Sorry about my ignorance on this matter.



LDAC can have a range of quality options. This is usually buried deep in settings menus. Try to set the highest quality on each device.


----------



## Pro-Jules

Btw. I have fallen totally in love with Audio Techinca’s Pure Digital Drive technology. It’s available in 2 full sized over ear headphones and 1 neckband ear bud model so far - The moment I see that in a TWS it will be a no brainier for me to buy. The sound is delivered SO fast. They are Uber punchy and clear. Astounding, really.

OK - carry on.


----------



## Caipirina (Apr 14, 2020)

Sudio coming out with a new ANC set of buds .. and it is SBC only ??? 






Discuss

(yes, I am aware that there is also a certain YT review / promo out there, but I can't stand hearing that guy  He probably has tons of praise and a 15% off code   )


----------



## chinmie

Linus Jian said:


> Am I the only one who doesn't like the sound of the XM3s?
> 
> I've been using them for 2 months and ABed with N6 pros extensively and in my opinion the N6 pros crushed the XM3s in terms of SQ.
> 
> Been eyeing on the MTW2s coz the N6 pros don't have ANC, if the SQ of them is on par with the N6 pro I will be super satisfied.



to be honest, un-EQed, i don't like the XM3 sound too. it has too thick midbass. heck.. i even prefer the original XM1 unEQed sound by a long shot. 

but before i was considering to sell it, i noticed that it actually has better technical capabilities than the XM1, and most my other TWS and wired earphones for that matter. so i decided to play with the EQ. i found just reducing the Clear bass to -3 an leaving the rest of the EQ flat is the magic spot. 

this is also true with the WH XM3 (bloated midbass, but great technical). and the remedy is also similar for me, that is reducing the Clear bass. but i also bumped up the center EQ slider just a notch to add more mids. 

the Galaxy buds is also a great potential and i mostly like the preset EQs, but if Samsung decide to give it a manual EQ, it would be a killer package.


----------



## LouisArmstrong

Are the new MW07s / Louis Vuitton Horizon earbuds worth the upgrade from the old version?


----------



## martiniCZ

Bluedio has a new model TWE, which has not been mentioned here. They named it Fi, based on the QCC3020 with AptX support, volume control, and they should have an auto pause future. The buds remind me of something Spunky Beat, but the case looks quite futuristic. Interesting is also the price, yesterday I ordered them for less than $ 25.


----------



## Caipirina

martiniCZ said:


> Bluedio has a new model TWE, which has not been mentioned here. They named it Fi, based on the QCC3020 with AptX support, volume control, and they should have an auto pause future. The buds remind me of something Spunky Beat, but the case looks quite futuristic. Interesting is also the price, yesterday I ordered them for less than $ 25.


Curious what your impressions will be. Can't say I ever had any Bluedio audio product I ended up liking. Their first TWS got pretty bad reviews across the board ... but maybe they have learned from previous iterations.


----------



## bronco1015

tma6 said:


> Just wanted to update with some early impressions: the SONY xm3s sound just fantastic with DSEE HD on along with ANC. It kills the battery, but sounds just plain excellent for a TWS set. It could be a matter of personal preference, but I find that on these settings the xm3s sound even slightly better than the MTW2s to my ears. They certainly have a wider stage, though perhaps slightly less vocal detail and the bass is slightly more tame with a little less texture. I prefer the overall tonality though, particularly the more natural timbre of the mids and highs. The main thing that I'm loving about the xm3s is the speed - I know it's a dynamic driver IEM, but almost sounds like a BA with how crisp and forward everything is while maintaining the richness and punch of a DD. The one issue is that you can't use the DSEE HD function with EQ, and I found that without the DSEE HD on and with EQ some highs (particularly splashy cymbals e.g. Snarky Puppy) become a bit grainy. However, with DSEE HD on the highs really gain a bunch of detail and clarity. Also, ANC adds a bit of low end which is perfect for DSEE HD with EQ off. I think this is making me realize how necessary something like a digital upscaling function is for true wireless at this point in time since higher frequencies are normally what get sacrificed and crushed in compressed audio files. Anyway, just wanted to say that these sound great so far, and will definitely provide further audio impressions as the week progresses.


 I bought these when they first came out. eventually i got a pretty solid fit, and the anc was pretty steller. i would randomly get interference when being close to 1 specific tower fan i have and also off and on at work at my desk and while out and about. mor than i've ever gotten with other True wireless iems, but audio didn't drop out. just weird sounds almost like an accelerating sound, similar to a sound you can hear on some older vehicles in the radio static while driving. I think at robinfood had a similar issue witth a pair he purchased a while back and he asked about it on here. One thing i was surprised by was how DSEE HD  sounded so robotic on my phone. That wasn't a huge deal to me as i could get a sound i liked with eq. i just didn't feel they were worth the money. i'm not sure the mtw2 is either. i am still deciding what i think of the mtw2 but next post has some thoughts after listening for a few days. .


----------



## bronco1015

here are some thoughts of the MTW2 after listening for a few days. The ANC is better at blocking out low rumbling noises it seems. Since i haven't flown recently due to covid and working from home, best way i could think of was to play various airplane cabin and engine clips from my speakers. mid level sounds like people talking and fans in the background were tamed down, but not as effectively. i have a much better fit with these than i did with the sonys. That is to say it was easier to get a good seal with them. I think they isolate better than the 1st gen but not at say shure SE425 level and probably not at etymotic levels, never owned any of their products or demoed them either.
Battery life, well it hasn't drained. I hate that about the first gen but i use it regularly enough that it isn't a huge deal.
app is still the same half baked waste of money it's always been.
The touch controls are way more responsive on the mtw2, and the beeps by default are much quieter. i never have had many issues with the touch controls on the first gen with the exception of activating transparency mode, and the beep volume didn't really bother me either but i like the adjustments on gen 2.
You can remap the touch patterns as you may already know but by default 1 tap on right summons voice assistent, 2 toggles transparency mode on and off and 3 toggles the anc. You can go from transparency to anc with no problems and back again as well. When you go into transparency mode the music pauses but if you hit play on the left iem, the music resumes and you can still hear the outside world. imo Transparency mode sounds mor full and natural than on gen 1. 1 tap on left iem is for play-pause, 2 for next track and 3 for previous track.
I haven't done a ton of calling with these, but i have made some and no one has complained asking if i were on bluetooth etc. These do have sidetone, and it works fantasticly.
SQ, these are my  initial thoughts, i am  still sorting out my thoughts on them. i like them but one thing i'll say is theres something that's changed in the tuning with these. no matter what i do it seems like the mids are just a bit to forward. These get plenty loud, i maxed them out the other day and it hurt. But also the mids were especially to forward at that level. i like what they did with the bass. it's been dialed down pretty significantly. I also feel like there is a slight reduction in treble with these Vs. the 1st gen. They aren't dull, theres just a little less pop to them if you will. I can see why the mids were adjusted on the mtw2, but i think it was a slight overcorrection from how they were tuned on the 1st gen


----------



## tma6 (Apr 14, 2020)

bronco1015 said:


> I bought these when they first came out. eventually i got a pretty solid fit, and the anc was pretty steller. i would randomly get interference when being close to 1 specific tower fan i have and also off and on at work at my desk and while out and about. mor than i've ever gotten with other True wireless iems, but audio didn't drop out. just weird sounds almost like an accelerating sound, similar to a sound you can hear on some older vehicles in the radio static while driving. I think at robinfood had a similar issue witth a pair he purchased a while back and he asked about it on here. One thing i was surprised by was how DSEE HD  sounded so robotic on my phone. That wasn't a huge deal to me as i could get a sound i liked with eq. i just didn't feel they were worth the money. i'm not sure the mtw2 is either. i am still deciding what i think of the mtw2 but next post has some thoughts after listening for a few days. .



Very weird about the connectivity issues and strange static noises. I’ve had absolutely no issues on my phone, and after a reset the hiccups I was experiencing on my Windows computer completely went away.

Regarding the sound, I absolutely noticed the metallic somewhat processed sound when DSEE was on while EQ was also on. Then checked on Sony’s FAQs and apparently you are not supposed to have EQ on while DSEE is on at the same time. Using DSEE with no EQ and ANC on, there’s none of that robotic affect, at least over AAC on my iPhone. Instead, with this setting on they turn into what I hear to be one of the more natural, balanced, and detailed TWS sets I’ve tried to date, with excellent clean bass and an open, rich, natural mid range, and excellent treble clarity for a wireless set. Just wondering, were you using DSEE with EQ on at the same time? Also, I feel like it’s possible they have fixed some of the audio issues these had initially through firmware updates? Seems like they’ve released a lot of them in the past 8 months, but who knows.

I know audio is subjective though and to each their own, but I prefer the sound of the Sonys to what I was hearing with the MTW2s at the moment. I would say the Sonys slightly outperform the MTW2s in pretty much every category (overall detail retrieval, tonality, transparency, speed, balance, soundstage, and imaging), except for vertical instrument separation and vocal detail. The N6 Pros still edge the Sonys out slightly imo in terms of pure technical ability, natural / realistic timbre, and imaging, but it’s verrrry close and the N6s lack the features and the combination of warmth and punchiness in the low end that the Sonys provide. I’m going to give it another week of testing with my usual stable, but these are fast becoming one of my absolute favorite TWS to date.


----------



## FYLegend

Caipirina said:


> Sudio coming out with a new ANC set of buds .. and it is SBC only ???
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Alright guys, this doesn't have a very dah-namic sound and Ah-PX5! The charging port uses Qi charging and has a port that is... MicroUSB USB Type-C The controls control everything... but the volume!

Anyways, I always close video reviews once I see MicroUSB or no volume controls!


----------



## FYLegend

There's a new update to the Galaxy Buds+ that's supposed to fix issues with white noise in ambient sound, but I think it is also cutting out more bass from the mic feed as well. Makes you wonder if the hardware is capable of ANC but Samsung decided not to release it as such. Still no improvements on SBC sound quality or the volume decreasing over time.


----------



## hotdogseller

Hey all, do any of the popular sub 200 dollar wireless earbuds come with foam tips? (or alternatively are compatible when charging with aftermarket foam tips)


----------



## hotdogseller

hotdogseller said:


> Hey all, do any of the popular sub 200 dollar wireless earbuds come with foam tips? (or alternatively are compatible when charging with aftermarket foam tips)



Looking specifically for foam for increased isolation for motorcycle use not comfort FYI.


----------



## georgelai57

https://www.techradar.com/reviews/sony-wf-xb700-truly-wireless-headphones


----------



## jant71 (Apr 14, 2020)

^Not the best review. Why subtitle them asking if they are an Airpod alternative then in the review saying without much time with them it is hard to compare to the Apple. Not that they are an Airpod competitor anyway. Not sure about about limited playback controls as a con. They don't leave anything out so where is the con. You can do volume, track control, and voice assistant. Comparing Youtube to music. Well, yes EQ is important. My podcasts sound different than my music, and videos can sound different than that. Notice this on all the different TWS I have had and it is not the earphones problem but a side effect of the different platforms.

What I don't like, since we have seen a teardown of the Sony, is they put 95 mAh batteries in them but only a 300mah in the case. Should have put a bigger one in there...

Credit to the Walkman Blog




This image from the review is useful...



...to learn those tips probably gotta go. Too small a bore compressing the stage height at least.Think the Sedna Earfits should open them up and make the vocals pop more since that is kinda what they do. Crisper, open, and better balance.

The pics there also confirm the black is boring. The blue pops and add more to the look with two contrasting colors.


----------



## bronco1015

tma6 said:


> Very weird about the connectivity issues and strange static noises. I’ve had absolutely no issues on my phone, and after a reset the hiccups I was experiencing on my Windows computer completely went away.
> 
> Regarding the sound, I absolutely noticed the metallic somewhat processed sound when DSEE was on while EQ was also on. Then checked on Sony’s FAQs and apparently you are not supposed to have EQ on while DSEE is on at the same time. Using DSEE with no EQ and ANC on, there’s none of that robotic affect, at least over AAC on my iPhone. Instead, with this setting on they turn into what I hear to be one of the more natural, balanced, and detailed TWS sets I’ve tried to date, with excellent clean bass and an open, rich, natural mid range, and excellent treble clarity for a wireless set. Just wondering, were you using DSEE with EQ on at the same time? Also, I feel like it’s possible they have fixed some of the audio issues these had initially through firmware updates? Seems like they’ve released a lot of them in the past 8 months, but who knows.
> 
> I know audio is subjective though and to each their own, but I prefer the sound of the Sonys to what I was hearing with the MTW2s at the moment. I would say the Sonys slightly outperform the MTW2s in pretty much every category (overall detail retrieval, tonality, transparency, speed, balance, soundstage, and imaging), except for vertical instrument separation and vocal detail. The N6 Pros still edge the Sonys out slightly imo in terms of pure technical ability, natural / realistic timbre, and imaging, but it’s verrrry close and the N6s lack the features and the combination of warmth and punchiness in the low end that the Sonys provide. I’m going to give it another week of testing with my usual stable, but these are fast becoming one of my absolute favorite TWS to date.


i didn't have eq on at the time, i can't remember which reviewer it was but one had called out that it couldn't be used with DSEE so i didn't try it. But it was first batch and it may be worth picking them up again. There were a lot of things i liked about them.


----------



## TheLionelHutz

hotdogseller said:


> Looking specifically for foam for increased isolation for motorcycle use not comfort FYI.


Advanced Sound X+ come with some great foam tips.


----------



## Canabuc

Been playing with my new L2P and overall nice spacious powerful sound but listening back to back with my M&D MW50 the sound is so different. Played with the equalization and got a sound that tones down the highs and brings the kids forward. Seems more full and closer to my headphones. Attaching my EQ settings please try it out and comment.

Thanks am pretty new here but had an enjoyable 1400+ read before settling on these  Buds. Got em for under 100 US. Only other considerations are the edifier with ANC or the lypertek. Am in Canada where now there is coupon for amazon.


----------



## Luke Skywalker (Apr 14, 2020)

Linus Jian said:


> Am I the only one who doesn't like the sound of the XM3s?
> 
> I've been using them for 2 months and ABed with N6 pros extensively and in my opinion the N6 pros crushed the XM3s in terms of SQ.
> 
> Been eyeing on the MTW2s coz the N6 pros don't have ANC, if the SQ of them is on par with the N6 pro I will be super satisfied.


I could not agree more... Got the XM3's a few days ago and they're a big disappointment, other than the ANC. My N6 Pro's blow them out of the water

In fact... For certain music I'd have to say they hold their own against my JH Lola's which cost a good bit more than the N6 Pro's.  Hoping Nuarl comes out with a new model (N7?) at some point with ANC and... (dare I hope...) LDAC


----------



## tma6

bronco1015 said:


> i didn't have eq on at the time, i can't remember which reviewer it was but one had called out that it couldn't be used with DSEE so i didn't try it. But it was first batch and it may be worth picking them up again. There were a lot of things i liked about them.



Hmm that’s interesting. I’ll definitely keep listening through this week and do a full review on these. I feel like I’m hyping them a lot right now, but I’ll let the honeymoon phase die down before I get too carried away lol. I do think it’s possible that they’ve resolved the robotic sound with DSEE issue. Can someone else verify this? I’ve been going back and forth on every song and I’m not hearing it at all. I definitely hear it with EQ on but not off. All I hear is DSEE marginally improving the audio.


----------



## eiraku (Apr 14, 2020)

Canabuc said:


> Been playing with my new L2P and overall nice spacious powerful sound but listening back to back with my M&D MW50 the sound is so different. Played with the equalization and got a sound that tones down the highs and brings the kids forward. Seems more full and closer to my headphones. Attaching my EQ settings please try it out and comment.
> 
> Thanks am pretty new here but had an enjoyable 1400+ read before settling on these  Buds. Got em for under 100 US. Only other considerations are the edifier with ANC or the lypertek. Am in Canada where now there is coupon for amazon.



Welcome to the L2P club mate. It's pretty interesting that your shortlist looks pretty similar to mine. I nearly pulled the trigger on the Tevis myself, though where I am the Edifier ANCs can be had at around the price of the Nuarl so I skipped that one.

Will defo try that EQ, I have something similar on mine for daily listening (mid bumped up) though it's a bit more subtle (and without that 3.2k dip).



Spoiler



Also, what device(s) - other than the iPad I think you did the EQ on - do you have yours paired to? If it's a relatively recent Android device, do you have TWS+ working on yours (both buds "connected" under Bluetooth settings, either R or L marked as "active")?


----------



## RobinFood

https://gizmodo.com/razer-just-won-the-wireless-headphone-wars-with-pikachu-1842840266

New earbud style coming out soon!
Case is a little bit but looks really nice.


----------



## jant71

RobinFood said:


> https://gizmodo.com/razer-just-won-the-wireless-headphone-wars-with-pikachu-1842840266
> 
> New earbud style coming out soon!
> Case is a little bit but looks really nice.



Pikachu is out, Tiger King is in...


----------



## hifi80sman

jant71 said:


> Pikachu is out, Tiger King is in...


I think I'm going to be that gym diva and rock these during my workout.  When the gym opens again, that is...


----------



## DigDub

Latest firmware update to the galaxy plus buds seems to have improved the sound. It used to sound thin in the mid range and underpowered before the update. After the update, the mids sound fuller now and doesn't sound underpowered.


----------



## go0gle (Apr 15, 2020)

eiraku said:


> Welcome to the L2P club mate. It's pretty interesting that your shortlist looks pretty similar to mine. I nearly pulled the trigger on the Tevis myself, though where I am the Edifier ANCs can be had at around the price of the Nuarl so I skipped that one.
> 
> Will defo try that EQ, I have something similar on mine for daily listening (mid bumped up) though it's a bit more subtle (and without that 3.2k dip).
> 
> ...



Have you tried the piano preset ? If mids is what you seek, its a good one.

I've had time to play around with most of them in the past few days and to my ear the Darrell Thorp one seems to bring out the best out of the hardware.. they sound "as intended" to me. Its also as close to the "recommended" one and, if I remember correctly, Thorp was the most vocal during the presentation so perhaps he did in fact have some influence in the sound signature..

For fans of the low end, I like this:


----------



## Canabuc

eiraku said:


> Welcome to the L2P club mate. It's pretty interesting that your shortlist looks pretty similar to mine. I nearly pulled the trigger on the Tevis myself, though where I am the Edifier ANCs can be had at around the price of the Nuarl so I skipped that one.
> 
> Will defo try that EQ, I have something similar on mine for daily listening (mid bumped up) though it's a bit more subtle (and without that 3.2k dip).
> 
> ...




That was on an iPad and am also on a galaxy note 8 so no tws+.

Listening on my note my settings were to aggressive in the mids.
Found this much better now.
The do at 3.2k is due to a big bump I've seen there on some curve around 3k. Trying to EQ that down a bit. Makes vocals a bit warmer. Found before even make vocals seemed a bit harsh.

This new profile seems warmer and folder but still with good base and treble.


----------



## Canabuc

go0gle said:


> Have you tried the piano preset ? If mids is what you seek, its a good one.
> 
> I've had time to play around with most of them in the past few days and to my ear the Darrell Thorp one seems to bring out the best out of the hardware.. they sound "as intended" to me. Its also as close to the "recommended" one and, if I remember correctly, Thorp was the most vocal during the presentation so perhaps he did in fact have some influence in the sound signature..
> 
> For fans of the low end, I like this:


Like the mids on the piano but find the treble by harsh.
I just added a new profile EQ I tested. Gives the mids of the piano without blowing out the treble.


----------



## Canabuc

Playing a bit more bumping treble up a bit more.
Same as above but both 6.4 and 12.8 bumped up to +2.

Loving it!  Lively still but the mids are full and not reversed like signature sound.
Not all harsh and shouty like porno which otherwise has great mid and energy


----------



## go0gle

Canabuc said:


> Playing a bit more bumping treble up a bit more.
> Same as above but both 6.4 and 12.8 bumped up to +2.
> 
> Loving it!  Lively still but the mids are full and not reversed like signature sound.
> Not all harsh and shouty like porno which otherwise has great mid and energy



ah, yes.. I just tried it!  They open up nicely


----------



## Canabuc

I've more for you lovers of the L2P piano preset.
Sounds very similar but EQ has warmer vocals a little less in your face treble.


----------



## LouisArmstrong

I heard Shure is releasing a wireless adapter which can be used with SE846? Has it been released yet and is there any review out there?


----------



## assassin10000

LouisArmstrong said:


> I heard Shure is releasing a wireless adapter which can be used with SE846? Has it been released yet and is there any review out there?



https://www.head-fi.org/threads/shure-rmce-tw1-shure-cuts-the-cord.928960/


----------



## cleg

My video about 1More Stylish TWS. In short — they've spent most of the price on "stylish" part


----------



## eiraku (Apr 15, 2020)

Canabuc said:


> Like the mids on the piano but find the treble by harsh.
> I just added a new profile EQ I tested. Gives the mids of the piano without blowing out the treble.



Yes THIS. The highs on Piano are almost sibilant to me in the majority of the stuff I listen to. I still tune to it sometimes when I really want things to open up though (and when I know the track doesn't have ear melting highs).

And yeah, Piano (porno lol) also sounds "shouty" to me sometimes.



Canabuc said:


> I've more for you lovers of the L2P piano preset.
> Sounds very similar but EQ has warmer vocals a little less in your face treble.



Will try this too. Looks intriguing. That said, to help us dial in the right adjustments, you might also wanna add numerical EQ notations along with the shots (e.g. 0, 0, +1, +2, +3, +1, +2, +2 for this one, perhaps). One bad thing with the SC EQ is I'm never really sure what + or - values people have on due to the thing being kinda... vague.

Sometimes I wonder how the HearID stuff works. It keeps on elevating the treble on mine when I don't actually want it to. But otherwise I kinda like what it gives me.

BTW, here's what I use now, which kinda sounds like my HearID one with the highs reined in a bit and with the 3.2k area pushed down a bit as per yours (it does make vocals sound a bit smoother TBH):



Spoiler










0, 0 +1, +3, +1, -1, +1, +1


----------



## Canabuc

eiraku said:


> Yes THIS. The highs on Piano are almost sibilant to me in the majority of the stuff I listen to. I still tune to it sometimes when I really want things to open up though (and when I know the track doesn't have ear melting highs).
> 
> And yeah, Piano (porno lol) also sounds "shouty" to me sometimes.
> 
> ...


I don't include numbers because for example +1 has a range. I can move the circle up or down a bit and still have it say +1. 
I figure having the shape can give you a chance to match it easily.
I think the Piano (damn auto correct to porno before) is the same as mine except with the 3.2k and the treble all pushed up,more

I found listening to some songs the instruments and even much of the vocals sounded exactly the same to my ears with stock tips. Just the vocals that sounded to high pitch and almost sceeching are softer now.

If any one finds some further good tweaks would be great to share!


----------



## eiraku (Apr 15, 2020)

Canabuc said:


> I don't include numbers because for example +1 has a range. I can move the circle up or down a bit and still have it say +1.
> I figure having the shape can give you a chance to match it easily.
> I think the Piano (damn auto correct to porno before) is the same as mine except with the 3.2k and the treble all pushed up,more
> 
> ...



That's what mean by it being "vague". On some shared EQ photos I have no idea if something's set to +2 or +3, hence the recommendation to share both photo and notation (if possible anyway).

As for tips, might cut some KZ foam (they're slightly harder and more resilient then Complys) to fit the charging case because I find them rather useful in cutting out sharp highs. I'm out of spares though so I'll have to wait for my local reseller to restock (hopefully soon).

I gotta wonder what the KZs will do to the fitting of the L2Ps in my ears, however.


----------



## jant71 (Apr 15, 2020)

More cable in models showing up... https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&u=https://www.owltech.co.jp/press-release/20200415130360576






Owltech KPro01. AptX, nanocoating, USB C cable, silver cable option, multi-pairing(multipoint?) with 3 devices. $229 selling price(converted to USD) for the set with both cables included.


----------



## eiraku (Apr 15, 2020)

jant71 said:


> More cable in models showing up... https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&u=https://www.owltech.co.jp/press-release/20200415130360576
> 
> Owltech KPro01. AptX, nanocoating, USB C cable, silver cable option, multi-pairing(multipoint?) with 3 devices. $229 selling price(converted to USD) for the set with both cables included.



Woah. Those look very interesting indeed... except for the part where we have to constantly charge the thing with a cable (and not a "typical" cradle case you can easily pop it in and out of).

Otherwise I'm really digging the idea behind it... even if the price looks a bit too rich for my blood lol.


----------



## chinmie

jant71 said:


> More cable in models showing up... https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&u=https://www.owltech.co.jp/press-release/20200415130360576
> 
> 
> Owltech KPro01. AptX, nanocoating, USB C cable, silver cable option, multi-pairing(multipoint?) with 3 devices. $229 selling price(converted to USD) for the set with both cables included.



i fear that the 2 pin connector would become loose after multiple charging.. the idea is good though


----------



## voicemaster

chinmie said:


> i fear that the 2 pin connector would become loose after multiple charging.. the idea is good though


If you look closely, the 2 pin connector for wired connection is different from the 2 pin for charging the battery.


----------



## chinmie

voicemaster said:


> If you look closely, the 2 pin connector for wired connection is different from the 2 pin for charging the battery.



yup, but from what i see the only way to connect the charging contacts is by also inserting the 2 pin. i don't know if they implemented some magnets to help secure it, but that 2 pin design seems to rest entirely on the 2 pin prongs. 

it might be more secure if they made it a slotted female pins, or the QDC type male pins

all in all, from design only, i prefer the BGVP Q2 implementation more


----------



## bronco1015

Linus Jian said:


> Am I the only one who doesn't like the sound of the XM3s?
> 
> I've been using them for 2 months and ABed with N6 pros extensively and in my opinion the N6 pros crushed the XM3s in terms of SQ.
> 
> Been eyeing on the MTW2s coz the N6 pros don't have ANC, if the SQ of them is on par with the N6 pro I will be super satisfied.


Alright. after a bing these 2 i have to agree. The n6 pro absolutely crush the sonys for sq. I forgot how lifeless these sound without eq, and even then.. i'd honestly rather listen to my spunkybeats tbh. The XM3 have great anc. imo, that's there biggest draw and that's okay. You can definitely get a good sound out of them and ymmv, i know i worded that kind of strongly in the beginning of this post but the codec support i think makes a big difference as well. i'm not using local files, but am using Amazon music HD which is pretty solid from a music quality perspective.


----------



## AudioNoob

New ANC buds
https://www.solrepublic.com/wireless/amps-air-plus.html
https://www.thehouseofmarley.com/headphones/redemption-anc.html


----------



## Caipirina

AudioNoob said:


> New ANC buds
> https://www.solrepublic.com/wireless/amps-air-plus.html
> https://www.thehouseofmarley.com/headphones/redemption-anc.html


Also a new one on AE. Does not look too thrilling compared to other Chi-Fi ANCs at half the Price (those airsun X8 were at 48$ during last sale!)

i am out of danger since nothing ships here anymore ...


----------



## Markolav (Apr 16, 2020)

VJJB has released their first TWS-earbuds. At the same time its like their most expensive product ever by costing around $60. Anyone brave enough to try them out? Im huge fan of some VJJB-products (like K4) and these got my interest, I think they look great!


----------



## Luchyres (Apr 16, 2020)

AudioNoob said:


> New ANC buds
> https://www.solrepublic.com/wireless/amps-air-plus.html
> https://www.thehouseofmarley.com/headphones/redemption-anc.html


I'm curious about these Amps Air+ but I haven't yet read anything about Sol Republic in the TWS space. If anyone tries them lmk! (9.2mm driver caught my eye)

edit: and thanks for sharing @AudioNoob

Edit2: Found this: https://www.soundguys.com/sol-republic-amps-air-plus-review-29622/


----------



## AudioNoob

I assumed there would be a lot more ANC TWS with RTL8773B out, but doesn't seem to be happening yet


----------



## hifi80sman

Luchyres said:


> I'm curious about these Amps Air+ but I haven't yet read anything about Sol Republic in the TWS space. If anyone tries them lmk! (9.2mm driver caught my eye)
> 
> edit: and thanks for sharing @AudioNoob
> 
> Edit2: Found this: https://www.soundguys.com/sol-republic-amps-air-plus-review-29622/


Originally started off as an offshoot of Monster (Kevin Lee, son of Noel Lee, Monster Founder) and many of their products had a similar sound signature as Monster branded products (heavy V-shape).  It's since been purchased by HoMedics and the sound has become more mainstream consumer focused, in that the V is a less drastic than the original Monster sound.

That beig said, I have not tried their new offering, namely, because the price is just too high when the established competition is at a similar price point.  Anyone want to take a leap?


----------



## TheLionelHutz

Anybody ordered the Astrotech S90 Pro yet?


----------



## erockg

Luchyres said:


> I'm curious about these Amps Air+ but I haven't yet read anything about Sol Republic in the TWS space. If anyone tries them lmk! (9.2mm driver caught my eye)
> 
> edit: and thanks for sharing @AudioNoob
> 
> Edit2: Found this: https://www.soundguys.com/sol-republic-amps-air-plus-review-29622/


I had them, returned them.  Sound was low, fit was bad for me, ANC was okay, but I couldn't get a good seal.  Case was large.  No volume control on the buds and no app for firmware updates.


----------



## bronco1015

TheLionelHutz said:


> Anybody ordered the Astrotech S90 Pro yet?


Check out these instructions for using them from linsoul's product page.
"
Press one second to answer the phone or hang up, play/pause
Press four times to call out Siri or Google assistant
L: Press 3 times for previous song
R: Press 3 times for next song
L: Press 2 times for volume down
R: Press 2 times for volume up
"
4 times for the assistent? apparently they're confident in the touch controls and that they won't be to sensitive or unresponsive.
imo they should have had press and hold for volume. i think mor than 3 taps on the earbuds is to much unless i can start texting with them lol.


----------



## FYLegend

Markolav said:


> VJJB has released their first TWS-earbuds. At the same time its like their most expensive product ever by costing around $60. Anyone brave enough to try them out? Im huge fan of some VJJB-products (like K4) and these got my interest, I think they look great!


Looks like a rebrand of the EPZ S350S or otherwise using the same shell.  Also has a 6mm dynamic driver and describes using a Realtek RT8763C (which couldn't find any info - EPZ uses RT8763B in the standard version and QCC3026 in the Pro version) If they're the same then you're only really paying more for the looks and AptX on the EPZ.


----------



## FYLegend

DigDub said:


> Latest firmware update to the galaxy plus buds seems to have improved the sound. It used to sound thin in the mid range and underpowered before the update. After the update, the mids sound fuller now and doesn't sound underpowered.


Was this with the normal setting? I had it stuck to dynamic before and after the update and haven't really noticed a difference.

I'm more annoyed the update has an aggressive noise cancelling wind filter but consequently removes a lot of bass. It also constantly oscillates volumes left and right with certain sounds like music coming out of a speaker. Tried to bring up these issues in a Samsung forum and was only met with reps and users saying stuff like "please troubleshoot first if not it is a hardware issue and you should get a replacement".


----------



## TheLionelHutz

bronco1015 said:


> Check out these instructions for using them from linsoul's product page.
> "
> Press one second to answer the phone or hang up, play/pause
> Press four times to call out Siri or Google assistant
> ...


Meh. I don't use Assistants.


----------



## Hung Tuan

FYLegend said:


> Was this with the normal setting? I had it stuck to dynamic before and after the update and haven't really noticed a difference.
> 
> I'm more annoyed the update has an aggressive noise cancelling wind filter but consequently removes a lot of bass. It also constantly oscillates volumes left and right with certain sounds like music coming out of a speaker. Tried to bring up these issues in a Samsung forum and was only met with reps and users saying stuff like "please troubleshoot first if not it is a hardware issue and you should get a replacement".


it seems like their new algorithm is unstable, though it blocks windnoise better.

anyone try spinfit on galaxy buds plus? their default  tips are fine but it is itchy


----------



## Mlaihk

Hung Tuan said:


> it seems like their new algorithm is unstable, though it blocks windnoise better.
> 
> anyone try spinfit on galaxy buds plus? their default  tips are fine but it is itchy


I use Spinfit cp360 with my buds plus and they fit in the case just fine.


----------



## DigDub

FYLegend said:


> Was this with the normal setting? I had it stuck to dynamic before and after the update and haven't really noticed a difference.
> 
> I'm more annoyed the update has an aggressive noise cancelling wind filter but consequently removes a lot of bass. It also constantly oscillates volumes left and right with certain sounds like music coming out of a speaker. Tried to bring up these issues in a Samsung forum and was only met with reps and users saying stuff like "please troubleshoot first if not it is a hardware issue and you should get a replacement".


I am using the dynamic eq setting. 

Are you referring to with ambient mode on? I seldom use the ambient mode.


----------



## Mlaihk

The buds plus has wind noise cancelling?



FYLegend said:


> Was this with the normal setting? I had it stuck to dynamic before and after the update and haven't really noticed a difference.
> 
> I'm more annoyed the update has an aggressive noise cancelling wind filter but consequently removes a lot of bass. It also constantly oscillates volumes left and right with certain sounds like music coming out of a speaker. Tried to bring up these issues in a Samsung forum and was only met with reps and users saying stuff like "please troubleshoot first if not it is a hardware issue and you should get a replacement".


----------



## Windmolinos (Apr 17, 2020)

Dear friends, would you please recommend some bluetooth IEMs, but button design?
Like the airpods but around 50$
If possible, sold in Amazon.
Thanks a lot in advance!


----------



## X-Nemesis

So what chipset is everyone waiting on that will bring a significant advance in sound and features in the TWS world?


----------



## eiraku (Apr 17, 2020)

X-Nemesis said:


> So what chipset is everyone waiting on that will bring a significant advance in sound and features in the TWS world?



I guess whatever from Qualcomm that has the thing that replaces "vanilla" TrueWireless Stereo: TW Mirroring. Not sure if certain mobile procs will be needed for it to work (like TWS+) or if it's just a drop in replacement for good ol' TWS... which I hope is the case as that means the improvements it "supposedly" brings aren't locked to certain phone + IEM combos (and a variety of other factors like ROM and stuff).

Specifically, the chips are the QCC514X and QCC304X IINM.

Also there's BT 5.2 and BLE Audio... but that might take a while... even more so now that we're in COVID season.


----------



## aqsw

Just a heads up for Canadians looking for Klipsch. T3s are $99.00 at headphonebar


----------



## Francesco Montanari

Bought Galaxy Buds+ few days ago and I'm really disappointed. Case is draining at least 1% per hour and I'm not alone. In my telegram group all users are facing the same issue.

I really liked the buds+ before this but I will send them back. 

Please be aware. This issue is present since icon x... The strange thing is that for Sennheiser mtw I read a lot of blog post about the issue and for Samsung only a YouTube video about it...


----------



## Caipirina (Apr 17, 2020)

eiraku said:


> I guess whatever from Qualcomm that has the thing that replaces "vanilla" TrueWireless Stereo: TW Mirroring. Not sure if certain mobile procs will be needed for it to work (like TWS+) or if it's just a drop in replacement for good ol' TWS... which I hope is the case as that means the improvements it "supposedly" brings aren't locked to certain phone + IEM combos (and a variety of other factors like ROM and stuff).
> 
> Specifically, the chips are the QCC514X and QCC304X IINM.
> 
> Also there's BT 5.2 and BLE Audio... but that might take a while... even more so now that we're in COVID season.



Can you elaborate on 'TW mirroring'? Can't really imagine what that could be

One thing I would really like to see, sharing my BT signal to a friend ... like those old old walkman times when one could offer the second headphone port for 'hey, listen in' ...

The other thing I'd love to see some day: a pure music TWS set with NO microphones, no CVC, no way phone calls can disturb my musical bliss!!!


----------



## Darkestred

Caipirina said:


> Can you elaborate on 'TW mirroring'? Can't really imagine what that could be
> 
> One thing I would really like to see, sharing my BT signal to a friend ... like those old old walkman times when one could offer the second headphone port for 'hey, listen in' ...
> 
> The other thing I'd love to see some day: a pure music TWS set with NO microphones, no CVC, no way phone calls can disturb my musical bliss!!!



Im certain a few if not all the new phones have this option in android.


----------



## FYLegend

Hung Tuan said:


> it seems like their new algorithm is unstable, though it blocks windnoise better.
> 
> anyone try spinfit on galaxy buds plus? their default  tips are fine but it is itchy


I don't have spinfit but yeah I noticed they're quite itchy, never had this with any other IEM eartip before. Not sure if there's a way to clean them off but the wingtips may also be part of it. Jabees and other wide-bore tips work fine but also let in more of the treble which is unfavourable.


Mlaihk said:


> The buds plus has wind noise cancelling?


I was referring to the ambient sound, not ANC.


----------



## FYLegend

Caipirina said:


> Can you elaborate on 'TW mirroring'? Can't really imagine what that could be


It's just seamless bud switching and also manages power distribution between the two buds. Realtek and Airoha already have seamless bud-switching, I really hope Qualcomm's implementation doesn't require a Snapdragon SoC.


----------



## eiraku (Apr 17, 2020)

Caipirina said:


> Can you elaborate on 'TW mirroring'? Can't really imagine what that could be
> 
> One thing I would really like to see, sharing my BT signal to a friend ... like those old old walkman times when one could offer the second headphone port for 'hey, listen in' ...
> 
> The other thing I'd love to see some day: a pure music TWS set with NO microphones, no CVC, no way phone calls can disturb my musical bliss!!!



https://bit.ly/3evuVQh

Here's the Qualcomm Press Release on the Chips I was talking about, mentioning TW Mirroring.

https://bit.ly/2RMbtVP

And here's Qualcomm's explanation page on the tech (it's under TWS).

The way I understand it, it does what TWS does but the switching of "master" buds when only a single one is used/needed will be completely seamless, and it will even switch (again seamlessly) in case one bud is determined to have better signal compared to the other.

Compare this to TWS where the "master" is pre-determined at connection and switching the master off at any point in time (by putting it into the case, for example), will cause the connection to drop for a bit and music to pause as the "master" is switched over to the other earbud.

Or to TWS+, which "supposedly" connects to both at once but still has a momentary drop in connection when the "assigned active" headphone is put away (yeah I tested this with my COAs, seems TWS+ isn't completely seemless either), though music does not stop in this case.

Well, at least that's what I could take away from the sources given anyway lol. I might be completely missing the point though.

Also, as @FYLegend had mentioned, hopefully it doesn't require specific Snapdragon SOCs (and ROM implementation) as TWS+ did... though I vaguely suspect it's going to require BLE Audio to function anyway, so yeah... we MIGHT have to wait for BT5.2.


----------



## howdy

Bought the Tevis today. Ive always been looking at them and said eff it and bought it. They are 89 right now I think that's a good deal for what they are.


----------



## thimantha

Linus did a 'first-look' type of a hands-on review of the MTW2 if anyone is interested.


----------



## tma6

thimantha said:


> Linus did a 'first-look' type of a hands-on review of the MTW2 if anyone is interested.




I fully disagree with him that the APPs sound even close to as good as the MTW2s. He’s just objectively wrong about that.

That being said I didn’t love the MTW2s SQ overall.


----------



## bronco1015

thimantha said:


> Linus did a 'first-look' type of a hands-on review of the MTW2 if anyone is interested.



I couldn't make it through that video. But i had a similar reaction when i saw the notice about the update taking up to 50 minutes. And mine did take about that long. and i totally agree about the eq. i just don't get it Sennheiser, i really don't. You shouldn't half ass anything for a product especially something that costs hundreds of dollars. give the app functionality to match what the mtws offer. at least add a 5 band eq to the app. The airpods pro don't sound bad, but ymmv aside, they just aren't as capable as a lot of other true wireless models. even though i'm not a huge fan of the xm3 if it were just sound i'd take them over the airpods pro, both mtw models, the tevi, L2P, N6 pro any twe i own currently.


----------



## bronco1015

howdy said:


> Bought the Tevis today. Ive always been looking at them and said eff it and bought it. They are 89 right now I think that's a good deal for what they are.
> [/QUOTE I've thought a couple times about picking these up again since Lypertek changed the sound of them. but i felt they were a tad overpriced when i got them last fall. Curious to see how they stack up for you vs the rest of your true wireless lineup.


----------



## Sebulr

Caipirina said:


> Can you elaborate on 'TW mirroring'? Can't really imagine what that could be
> 
> One thing I would really like to see, sharing my BT signal to a friend ... like those old old walkman times when one could offer the second headphone port for 'hey, listen in' ...
> 
> The other thing I'd love to see some day: a pure music TWS set with NO microphones, no CVC, no way phone calls can disturb my musical bliss!!!


I use an app called volume butler for this reason. I click on a home screen widget and it puts my phone into do not disturb mode and alters the whatever volume you want. Then when I'm done I click the other one. For my wired headphones I have automate and a mini program that put its into silent mode when headphone jack inserted. Then toggles my profile back on automate when it is pulled out.


----------



## Will_i_ams

Not that my word means anything but I really loved the sound of the Tevis. I had no idea you could get that kind of sound with truly wireless earphones at that price point. 

I only wish they were more secure in the ear, I had to return them because they'd definitely fall out of my ears when I was training. 

I'm finding it really tough to pick a pair now, I'm really close to buying the Jaybird Vistas because they're so suited to fitness training but they've only got SBC codec. Think I need me some aptX!


----------



## Caipirina

Sebulr said:


> I use an app called volume butler for this reason. I click on a home screen widget and it puts my phone into do not disturb mode and alters the whatever volume you want. Then when I'm done I click the other one. For my wired headphones I have automate and a mini program that put its into silent mode when headphone jack inserted. Then toggles my profile back on automate when it is pulled out.


I use a similar DND feature, just wondering if there’d be any space saving / less clutter if a bud is music play only.


----------



## Caipirina

Quick question, is there a technical way to check if a TWS can do AAC without having to rely on seller’s claims? Want to check which of my buds are SBC only ...


----------



## RobinFood

On Android if your phone had AAC you can switch it in the developer's options. Go out of the menu and go back in the menu. If it changed back to SBC from AAC then the earbud can't do AAC.

Alternatively you can check with just about any dap. My shanling tells me what codec is being used at all times one the upper right corner.


----------



## Will_i_ams

RobinFood said:


> On Android if your phone had AAC you can switch it in the developer's options. Go out of the menu and go back in the menu. If it changed back to SBC from AAC then the earbud can't do AAC.
> 
> Alternatively you can check with just about any dap. My shanling tells me what codec is being used at all times one the upper right corner.


Will android automatically select the best codec available or do you have to manually change it to the one you want?


----------



## RobinFood (Apr 18, 2020)

Caipirina said:


> Quick question, is there a technical way to check if a TWS can do AAC without having to rely on seller’s claims? Want to check which of my buds are SBC only ...





Will_i_ams said:


> Will android automatically select the best codec available or do you have to manually change it to the one you want?



In my experience it will grab the best codec, from LDAC, APTx HD, APTx, AAC, SBC in that order, but I have heard of some phones doing weird things like picking AAC over APTx and what not.


----------



## voicemaster

RobinFood said:


> In my experience it will grab the best codec, from LDAC, APTx HD, APTx, AAC, SBC in that order, but I have heard of some phones doing weird things like picking AAC over APTx and what not.


My fiil t1x always default to AAC on android, all my other AptX able tws always default to AptX on android.


----------



## BobJS

voicemaster said:


> My fiil t1x always default to AAC on android, all my other AptX able tws always default to AptX on android.



That's because they don't support aptx.  (That's why I gave them away as a gift)


----------



## voicemaster

BobJS said:


> That's because they don't support aptx.  (That's why I gave them away as a gift)


Yeah the t1x doesn't support AptX, but their aac can put some AptX able tws to shame.


----------



## bronco1015

Will_i_ams said:


> Not that my word means anything but I really loved the sound of the Tevis. I had no idea you could get that kind of sound with truly wireless earphones at that price point.
> 
> I only wish they were more secure in the ear, I had to return them because they'd definitely fall out of my ears when I was training.
> 
> ...


----------



## Caipirina

RobinFood said:


> On Android if your phone had AAC you can switch it in the developer's options. Go out of the menu and go back in the menu. If it changed back to SBC from AAC then the earbud can't do AAC.
> 
> Alternatively you can check with just about any dap. My shanling tells me what codec is being used at all times one the upper right corner.


Oooohhh, that I have to try! Which Shanling you have?


----------



## Caipirina

RobinFood said:


> Alternatively you can check with just about any dap. My shanling tells me what codec is being used at all times one the upper right corner.


I guess my M3s only shows me this ‘A’, this might be why I never realized it could be the codec


----------



## Will_i_ams

I haven't looked at them, no. Thanks for the tip I'll check them out. 

Really annoying that it's only SBC on the Vistas (in a first world problem kind of way!). The specs look pretty spot on for my needs except that one point!


----------



## TK33

Will_i_ams said:


> Will android automatically select the best codec available or do you have to manually change it to the one you want?



Generally, yes, but it depends on the phone. My Galaxy S9 picks LDAC or aptX when paired with a compatible device. However, I have an old LG Aristo phone on an extra line which seems to prefer AAC over aptX (it's on Android 8 if that matters) but will default to aptX when I connect my ES100, which has AAC disabled.


----------



## TooFrank

Has any of you tested the difference between the MTW2 and the B&O E8 3rd gen?


----------



## RobinFood

Caipirina said:


> I guess my M3s only shows me this ‘A’, this might be why I never realized it could be the codec



I have the shanling m0. It shows the whole codec except for an SBC which shows the Bluetooth.


----------



## Caipirina

RobinFood said:


> I have the shanling m0. It shows the whole codec except for an SBC which shows the Bluetooth.


oh cool! I had the M0 several times in my shopping cart, than bought / cancelled ... had just gotten the M1 a few weeks before they announced the M0 .. and by then I was eyeing the M3s for balanced out ...  Now this retro looking Q1 is tickling my fancy ... but I really have enough DAPs ... and end up using phone most of the time anyways ... no more DAPs for me!


----------



## Will_i_ams

https://www.o2.co.uk/shop/anker/sou...5_1587279815_6c3f7fd83f673c83ee248e783d79a626


Found this deal, thought I'd share for anyone else in the UK. I'm not sure if O2 do international shipping.


----------



## X-Nemesis

eiraku said:


> I guess whatever from Qualcomm that has the thing that replaces "vanilla" TrueWireless Stereo: TW Mirroring. Not sure if certain mobile procs will be needed for it to work (like TWS+) or if it's just a drop in replacement for good ol' TWS... which I hope is the case as that means the improvements it "supposedly" brings aren't locked to certain phone + IEM combos (and a variety of other factors like ROM and stuff).
> 
> Specifically, the chips are the QCC514X and QCC304X IINM.
> 
> Also there's BT 5.2 and BLE Audio... but that might take a while... even more so now that we're in COVID season.



Thanks, and yes, if those improvement are brought across the board and not just certain combos, that would be fantastic.


----------



## jant71

eiraku said:


> I guess whatever from Qualcomm that has the thing that replaces "vanilla" TrueWireless Stereo: TW Mirroring. Not sure if certain mobile procs will be needed for it to work (like TWS+) or if it's just a drop in replacement for good ol' TWS... which I hope is the case as that means the improvements it "supposedly" brings aren't locked to certain phone + IEM combos (and a variety of other factors like ROM and stuff).



Mirroring is like advanced master/slave based on connection quality instead of just battery life. So not true wireless stereo and you don't get the TWS battery gain nor the higher quality audio Qualcomm claims for TWS. Mirroring swaps the connection side to the stronger side(based on signal strength), it allows you you go from both sides to only one side without interruption, and it stops the second additions to the device list. Sure many of us have experienced that when going to the device list you have it listed twice or a second time with L or R after the name. So, mirroring indeed does not require special chips on the phone/player end.


----------



## rstarden

Hi folks - just wondering if anyone has heard chatter regarding next-gen of Fostex TM2, or similar premium TWS CIEM adapter? 

It seems like a well-built product but I'm wary of the mixed reviews, lack of AptX HD or LDAC, and complaints of subpar mic fidelity...


----------



## jant71 (Apr 19, 2020)

rstarden said:


> Hi folks - just wondering if anyone has heard chatter regarding next-gen of Fostex TM2, or similar premium TWS CIEM adapter?
> 
> It seems like a well-built product but I'm wary of the mixed reviews, lack of AptX HD or LDAC, and complaints of subpar mic fidelity...



I'm not really liking these adapters so much. Who said behind the ears is where you want to be pressing buttons. Why can't they put the battery and controls right in front of the ear and have a slimmer ear hook to go behind the ear perhaps with different lengths/sizes to plug in towards the rear and cable with connector in the middle. Something like the Klipsch design...




More ergonomic to press the controls, less chance of thing to bounce around behind the ears, and more flexible to better fit the earphones.

They could make a better design than what they are doing but they are using little imagination.


----------



## baskingshark

Hi, I have been not keeping up with the wireless segment recently.

Would appreciate much if I could get some recommendations for a sub $50 TWS or bluetooth adapter type (2 pin preferably).
Prefer good battery life, good BT connectivity. Sound is secondary to these two, as my relative I'm getting it for prioritizes the first two areas. Would also be a bonus if it is sweatproof or mildly waterproof.

Thanks in advance!!


----------



## DynamicEars

baskingshark said:


> Hi, I have been not keeping up with the wireless segment recently.
> 
> Would appreciate much if I could get some recommendations for a sub $50 TWS or bluetooth adapter type (2 pin preferably).
> Prefer good battery life, good BT connectivity. Sound is secondary to these two, as my relative I'm getting it for prioritizes the first two areas. Would also be a bonus if it is sweatproof or mildly waterproof.
> ...



Not so many TWS style BT adapter around, my best bet for under $50 is classic TRN BT20S (they have 2 pins and mmcx), the similar Fiio UTWS1 abit more expensive, the other option is Fostex TM2 but that one is expensive.
Im still using BT20 and BT20s (my BT20 is 2 pin, and my BT20s is mmcx), the BT20S is sweat proof and have aptx support and have better built than old BT20 and sounds louder for a little bit expensive price but still under $50.


----------



## baskingshark

DynamicEars said:


> Not so many TWS style BT adapter around, my best bet for under $50 is classic TRN BT20S (they have 2 pins and mmcx), the similar Fiio UTWS1 abit more expensive, the other option is Fostex TM2 but that one is expensive.
> Im still using BT20 and BT20s (my BT20 is 2 pin, and my BT20s is mmcx), the BT20S is sweat proof and have aptx support and have better built than old BT20 and sounds louder for a little bit expensive price but still under $50.



Thanks! I had the BT20 and BT20S. TRN's QC is not the best though, I bought the BT20S for exercise purposes but the BT20S died within a few months of use.
Is there anything TWS or BT earpods style?


----------



## assassin10000

baskingshark said:


> Thanks! I had the BT20 and BT20S. TRN's QC is not the best though, I bought the BT20S for exercise purposes but the BT20S died within a few months of use.
> Is there anything TWS or BT earpods style?



Sabbat X12 pro (AAC only) 

Or for a bit more Sabbat X12 ultra (aptx & wireless charging).


----------



## DynamicEars (Apr 20, 2020)

baskingshark said:


> Thanks! I had the BT20 and BT20S. TRN's QC is not the best though, I bought the BT20S for exercise purposes but the BT20S died within a few months of use.
> Is there anything TWS or BT earpods style?


WHoops sorry for that, my BT20S still ok for around 5 months, while my old BT20 still doing great around 2 years (but i never use this one for exercise)

I have QCY T5 that crin praise that is earpods style if you mean it, but i dont like the 3khz peak (a lot of tws actually worse than this), thus I stick with my Haylout GT1 *PLUS, *remember the PLUS, not pro, not vanilla that have great tuning IMHO, and I just modded them, take off the cloth mesh, trim 1/4 portion of them and ditched them, put back the 3/4 to the nozzle end. Improving resolution and clarity (they wont go peaky as they are safe from high mids peak) For me, they are very great value at $27 while waiting for better TWS to come in the future that can match best $100-200 wired sound. Oh yeah they have APTX too because of using QCC3020 chipset, a serious bang for the bucks.


----------



## thimantha

DynamicEars said:


> thus I stick with my Haylout GT1 *PLUS, *remember the PLUS, not pro, not vanilla that have great tuning IMHO, and I just modded them, take off the cloth mesh, trim 1/4 portion of them and ditched them, put back the 3/4 to the nozzle end. Improving resolution and clarity (they wont go peaky as they are safe from high mids peak) For me, they are very great value at $27 while waiting for better TWS to come in the future that can match best $100-200 wired sound. Oh yeah they have APTX too because of using QCC3020 chipset, a serious bang for the bucks.



I'm in the same boat. I've stopped looking for other TWSs'. I'm awaiting the new wave of buds which will come with the new line of QC chipsets with ANC, and see how the products improve from there onwards. Until then, I'm really satisfied with my GT1 Plus.


----------



## Sunstealer

baskingshark said:


> Hi, I have been not keeping up with the wireless segment recently.
> 
> Would appreciate much if I could get some recommendations for a sub $50 TWS or bluetooth adapter type (2 pin preferably).
> Prefer good battery life, good BT connectivity. Sound is secondary to these two, as my relative I'm getting it for prioritizes the first two areas. Would also be a bonus if it is sweatproof or mildly waterproof.
> ...



Bomaker Sifi has a nice balanced sound, APTX and IPX5. should be available on Amazon.


----------



## inf.h5n1 (Apr 20, 2020)

Hi,
would really appreciate ANY input regarding the Adv. M5 TWS *Custom* (https://www.adv-sound.com/collections/true-wireless-earphones/products/m5-tws-custom)

I am planning on getting my second set of CIEMs at 500$ish budget, and not sure if it provides a good value for money sound-wise (regardless of the TWS technology), and how does it compare to the wired M51D.

I know the Universal version got good reviews although it did not include volume control onboard, but the custom version does. I scanned the forums and the internet in general for information but couldn't find anything about them.

Also, contacted Adv., and right now they do not offer customization options to these, so you need to choose out of the three designs they have (and no TWS M55D in the near future).

Still, that the only TWS CIEM I could find..

BTW, does any other CIEM manufacturer developes TWS CIEMs?


----------



## jant71 (Apr 20, 2020)

inf.h5n1 said:


> Hi,
> would really appreciate ANY input regarding the Adv. M5 TWS *Custom* (https://www.adv-sound.com/collections/true-wireless-earphones/products/m5-tws-custom)
> 
> I am planning on getting my second set of CIEMs at 500$ish budget, and not sure if it provides a good value for money sound-wise (regardless of the TWS technology), and how does it compare to the wired M51D.
> ...



The universal did not get all good reviews. A few said that one was little improvement over the Model X+ for sound. You do add volume but lose any case for charging and have to plug a cord into each side and manually power each side on(?). No frills as well with no IPX rating, no ambient or TWS+ or mirroring or anything above the minimum. Aptx but not low latency or promise of it. For $500 it just seems to be one of the few options so pay up but "good value" is not in sight. Risky proposition to be a low value. Unless you get a few reviews who have compared and say they are blowing away thing like the Senn for SQ. That even if they are $200 more and you have less features they sound so much better it's worth it(and there are no connection, latency, or other issues). I don't see it. Love to be proved wrong but not seeing it.  Also, 40mAh battery each side for 96sens. drivers giving 8 hours, I would be concerned about the overall volume these put out esp. for mobile use out in the real world. My advice is find out more before you jump so you lower the risk of them being an expensive disappointment.


----------



## azuha

First post here, so please go easy on me. 

First of all i'm from Turkey so my options are limited, please consider this information when giving me ideas. I've a pair of M40x and MR824s, so, i'm familiar with 'quality' sound even though i can't consider myself experienced yet.
I've been using my Meizu EP52's for the last 3 years as my daily driver when i go outside/walking/hiking,...etc. Since it's battery life dropped significantly due to frequent use AND i want something better, i need suggestions in the same form factor(they are comfy both in the ears and around the neck).
What i need(i think) is better battery life on a single charge(6+ hours), better overall sound quality, some good bass response even though i mostly listen to metal/rock/grunge,...etc., sometimes the need to feel the bass comes around, shouldn't break the bank obviously and bt 5.0 + type-c connection would be nice. 
I considered earPODs but i think they are not for me(charge, small form factor, easy to lose, good ones do break the bank).

Again, my first post here and i know it is for a recommendation but i hope you fellas would go easy on me.

Thanks!


----------



## rstarden

inf.h5n1 said:


> Hi,
> would really appreciate ANY input regarding the Adv. M5 TWS *Custom* (https://www.adv-sound.com/collections/true-wireless-earphones/products/m5-tws-custom)
> 
> I am planning on getting my second set of CIEMs at 500$ish budget, and not sure if it provides a good value for money sound-wise (regardless of the TWS technology), and how does it compare to the wired M51D.
> ...



As you may have seen, I ordered a pair of these and promised a review. Still waiting on build completion - COVID unsurprisingly impacting timelines.

For what it's worth, they had a promotion on their site that took it down to $450. As others have pointed out, it's expensive for uncertain quality. Value will ultimately come down to individual assessment. I've certainly spend in excess of $500 on BT adapters for my CIEMs and nothing checks the box for design + function (particularly call quality). If you index highly on true custom fit and integration of all components within CIEM housing (which I'm told is an engineering feat by several CIEM / re-shelling companies), these are the first in the world - so it's no surprise they have a price tag to match. Let's hope they serve as an acceptable first pass at the concept, and that some of major CIEM players follow suit with next generations!


----------



## Spidermanxd

rstarden said:


> As you may have seen, I ordered a pair of these and promised a review. Still waiting on build completion - COVID unsurprisingly impacting timelines.
> 
> For what it's worth, they had a promotion on their site that took it down to $450. As others have pointed out, it's expensive for uncertain quality. Value will ultimately come down to individual assessment. I've certainly spend in excess of $500 on BT adapters for my CIEMs and nothing checks the box for design + function (particularly call quality). If you index highly on true custom fit and integration of all components within CIEM housing (which I'm told is an engineering feat by several CIEM / re-shelling companies), these are the first in the world - so it's no surprise they have a price tag to match. Let's hope they serve as an acceptable first pass at the concept, and that some of major CIEM players follow suit with next generations!


1st custom tws, but don't be fool, it a waste of money, it sound worse than wire airpod, the touch function not responsive, lucky to get even 5 hours of use


----------



## TheLionelHutz

Spidermanxd said:


> 1st custom tws, but don't be fool, it a waste of money, it sound worse than wire airpod, the touch function not responsive, lucky to get even 5 hours of use


Is this based on personal experience?


----------



## Spidermanxd

TheLionelHutz said:


> Is this based on personal experience?


Yes, due to it a custom can't return


----------



## chinmie

if you really considering custom fit TWS at this point, i personally think the best way to go is still using custom IEMs with dongles like the TRN, Fiio, Fostex, or Shure. TWS lifespan would be limited by the battery and the BT technology


----------



## rstarden

Spidermanxd said:


> Yes, due to it a custom can't return



When did you receive them? I think I ordered just a few days after announcement, sent impressions a few days later and have not seen shipping confirmation. 

Can you share pics and more details?

It's surprising the fidelity would be worse than wired Apple units, which lack custom seal and sounded like tinny garbage from last pair I owned.

If it's that subpar then I will definitely be making some noise in the manufacturer's direction...


----------



## cpc93

The jbl everest 150nc is still available on eBay for 30 to 40. For the price they are very good


----------



## Nocturnal310

I think my venture into bluetooth headphones might be over.
I have the jabra elite 65t...enjoyed them a lot but I keep going back to my wired westone w30's...especially now that i am working from home.  If my jabra's die, i will probably buy cheap amazon bluetooth for phone calls.
My next headphones are going to be full size closed. 
bluetooth headphones will always be commute and phone call quality and never analytical so i dont care what new bluetooth version or 'codec' comes out every year.


----------



## eiraku (Apr 21, 2020)

azuha said:


> First post here, so please go easy on me.
> 
> First of all i'm from Turkey so my options are limited, please consider this information when giving me ideas. I've a pair of M40x and MR824s, so, i'm familiar with 'quality' sound even though i can't consider myself experienced yet.
> I've been using my Meizu EP52's for the last 3 years as my daily driver when i go outside/walking/hiking,...etc. Since it's battery life dropped significantly due to frequent use AND i want something better, i need suggestions in the same form factor(they are comfy both in the ears and around the neck).
> ...



If you're looking for the same form factor as the EP52 (neckband), you're kinda in the wrong place as this is more a TWS thread.

That said, being a fellow EP52 user myself (and I STILL use them as my "in-car-emergency-spare" pair even now), and looking at your list of reqs... maybe the *OnePlus Bullets Wireless* might just be up your alley. Both vers. 1 and 2 seems to fit your requirements (better sound, Type-C), with only price, BT version(4.1 vs 5) and SQ differences between them.

And the V1s aren't all that much pricier than the EP52s too.

On the other hand, if we're talking TWS (in the spirit of the thread)...



Spoiler



...I actually find my L2P to be a rather noticeable upgrade over the EP52 SQ wise... but of course for more dough with all the other cons of TWS you've already listed. The App and the EQ that comes with it does add a lot of value to the package though.

The Creative Outlier Airs are also decent, if you don't mind a much more "closed-in" sound vs the EP52s... but for considerably less than the L2P (and none of that chameleon-like EQ action).

There's also a few others that I guess would fit a EP52 user, like the Lypertek Tevis... but I don't actually own a pair so I can't comment much about them.


----------



## azuha (Apr 21, 2020)

eiraku said:


> If you're looking for the same form factor as the EP52 (neckband), you're kinda in the wrong place as this is more a TWS thread.
> 
> That said, being a fellow EP52 user myself (and I STILL use them as my "in-car-emergency-spare" pair even now), and looking at your list of reqs... maybe the *OnePlus Bullets Wireless* might just be up your alley. Both vers. 1 and 2 seems to fit your requirements (better sound, Type-C), with only price, BT version(4.1 vs 5) and SQ differences between them.
> 
> ...



First of all thank you very much for the info. I'm glad i found a fella who also uses EP52, so, i can get some accurate information.

I was actually wondering how OnePlus Bullets Wireless 2 was. Since i'm from Turkey, my options are VERY limited. For example, i could find only 1 L2P(i'm assuming you mean Liberty 2 Pro), and it does break the bank(opportunism is the key word and they are not even in stock, would have to wait 15 days). Most other stuff, we don't even have it in the country(Lypertek,Jaybird,Creative Outlier Air,...etc).

What i'd like to know now is, how good are the OnePlus Bullets Wireless 2s ? I use a OnePlus phone(7 Pro) too so it might be a good fit. How is the bass ? How loud can they get ? Do they fit good in the ear while on the move ?,...etc. I found 1 pair and they ARE expensive here, but i can do it if they are a considerable upgrade to my EP52s. Time for me to do some research i guess.

I might go TWS route IF they are worth it but like i said, i worry that i might loose them. So, i'm broadening my horizons. So, i can have some TWS recommendations as well.


----------



## Luke Skywalker

inf.h5n1 said:


> Hi,
> would really appreciate ANY input regarding the Adv. M5 TWS *Custom* (https://www.adv-sound.com/collections/true-wireless-earphones/products/m5-tws-custom)
> 
> I am planning on getting my second set of CIEMs at 500$ish budget, and not sure if it provides a good value for money sound-wise (regardless of the TWS technology), and how does it compare to the wired M51D.
> ...


Those look super cool.  If they had LDAC I'd order them today


----------



## PixelSquish

Nocturnal310 said:


> I think my venture into bluetooth headphones might be over.
> I have the jabra elite 65t...enjoyed them a lot but I keep going back to my wired westone w30's...especially now that i am working from home.  If my jabra's die, i will probably buy cheap amazon bluetooth for phone calls.
> My next headphones are going to be full size closed.
> bluetooth headphones will always be commute and phone call quality and never analytical so i dont care what new bluetooth version or 'codec' comes out every year.



That's funny. My first foray into TWS earbuds with the Senn TWM 2's has me wanting to sell a wired pair of IEM's and looking forward to further TWS releases.


----------



## Peter Yoon (Apr 21, 2020)

rstarden said:


> When did you receive them? I think I ordered just a few days after announcement, sent impressions a few days later and have not seen shipping confirmation.
> 
> Can you share pics and more details?
> 
> ...



We have never shipped M5-TWS Custom to anyone yet.  I would be interested in knowing what product he/she purchased.


----------



## eiraku (Apr 21, 2020)

azuha said:


> First of all thank you very much for the info. I'm glad i found a fella who also uses EP52, so, i can get some accurate information.
> 
> I was actually wondering how OnePlus Bullets Wireless 2 was. Since i'm from Turkey, my options are VERY limited. For example, i could find only 1 L2P(i'm assuming you mean Liberty 2 Pro), and it does break the bank(opportunism is the key word and they are not even in stock, would have to wait 15 days). Most other stuff, we don't even have it in the country(Lypertek,Jaybird,Creative Outlier Air,...etc).
> 
> ...



The Bullets Wireless V2s are said to be a decent leap up in SQ from the V1s (which itself is a leap up from the EP52). If cash is an issue, I still think the older V1s are still worth looking at (it's been mentioned as decently performing buds in several places). Both of them also work very well with OP phones, with AptX HD support and also auto-pair/auto-play/auto-pause natively supported by Oxygen OS.

Unfortunately, I can't speak from actual experience as I ended up with something else for a neckband (read below)... though I did look hard at both of them prior to making my decision.

And yeah, by L2P I mean the Liberties. Where I am it's well above the OPBW V2s in price, but as I already have a TRN BT3S + TRN V90 covering the neckband side (sometimes that monster 20h battery is pretty useful) and I don't have any TWSes yet, I jumped for the L2P once I got some decent coupons for it.

I'm glad though. Like I said before, the L2P is surprisingly "good enough" for daily driving (for me at least), and they're getting plenty of use.

Other TWS alternatives (from the top of my relatively inexperienced head) include:

1) The Sony WF1000XM3 (if you have extra money to blow, but most probably the easiest to find)

2) The 1More Stylish/ANC (I think Xiaomi does push them around globally, Stylish is a bit cheaper and ANC... well... has ANC)

3) The Fiil T1X (might be a bit harder to find, but good value for money)

4) The Liberty 2 Air (a slightly lower end, cheaper Liberty)

5) Soundpeats Truedot - Newer AptX version (cheap and cheerful, not sure if you can find them locally though).



Spoiler



Oh, and if you don't mind Micro-USB charging, plain ol' BT4.2 and the pain (+ extra expense) of having to find separate IEMs to use it with, the TRN BT3S (+ whatever IEM that strikes your fancy) is a good bet too... though unfortunately I don't think it's going to be easy to get one locally from where you are (unless you get it online or something).

And while the BT3S themselves are IP rated, I'm pretty sure I haven't come across IP rated IEMs to pair them with either, which makes the ingress resistance a moot point.

Also, as far as neckbands go, they're pretty large TBH. Guess they had to make fit that huge battery somewhere lol.


----------



## azuha

eiraku said:


> The Bullets Wireless V2s are said to be a decent leap up in SQ from the V1s (which itself is a leap up from the EP52). If cash is an issue, I still think the older V1s are still worth looking at (it's been mentioned as decently performing buds in several places). Both of them also work very well with OP phones, with AptX HD support and also auto-pair/auto-play/auto-pause natively supported by Oxygen OS.
> 
> Unfortunately, I can't speak from actual experience as I ended up with something else for a neckband (read below)... though I did look hard at both of them prior to making my decision.
> 
> ...



Oh i see. I might get your BT3S + V90 combo from AE. How they compare to EP52 besides the huge battery life ?

I'm leaning more and more towards OPBW V2(V1 doesn't exist here) even though it is a bit expensive. I have other Anker/Soundcore, JBL, Sony alternatives which are a lot cheaper then OPBW V2s where i live(like half, third the price) but again those are a bottemless pit with so many models. These 3 brands have SO MANY neckband models that it is stupid.


----------



## TheLionelHutz

Peter Yoon said:


> We have never shipped M5-TWS Custom to anyone yet.  I would be interested in knowing what product he/she purchased.


----------



## eiraku (Apr 21, 2020)

azuha said:


> Oh i see. I might get your BT3S + V90 combo from AE. How they compare to EP52 besides the huge battery life ?
> 
> I'm leaning more and more towards OPBW V2(V1 doesn't exist here) even though it is a bit expensive. I have other Anker/Soundcore, JBL, Sony alternatives which are a lot cheaper then OPBW V2s where i live(like half, third the price) but again those are a bottemless pit with so many models. These 3 brands have SO MANY neckband models that it is stupid.



I edited my post for some TWS recommendations, but I think you'll do fine with either the BT3S + V90 or the OPBW2.

Especially with the BW2, keep in mind AptX HD capable neckbands are rather hard to find TBH, and that fact alone already makes it an excellent fit for the OP7P.

Soundwise I'd imagine my V90s to be more technically capable (it's a very decent 5-driver ChiFi IEM after all), but you do get a lot more features with the BW2.

It even has that magnetic thing the EP52 does, and auto pauses when you stick them together... something I really miss on my BT3S + V90 combo (the drivers in them actually push them apart lol).


----------



## azuha (Apr 21, 2020)

eiraku said:


> I edited my post for some TWS recommendations, but I think you'll do fine with either the BT3S + V90 or the OPBW2.
> 
> Especially with the BW2, keep in mind AptX HD capable neckbands are rather hard to find TBH, and that fact alone already makes it an excellent fit for the OP7P.
> 
> Soundwise I'd imagine my V90s to be more technically capable (it's a very decent 5-driver ChiFi IEM after all), but you do get a lot more features with the BW2.



Yeah i checked your edited post, none of them exist here unfortunately(except The Sony WF1000XM3(1000 bucks in our currency), and Liberty Air(not Liberty 2 Air, 579 bucks in our currency). Only thing concerns me about BW2(620 bucks in our currency) is the loudness and bass. It seems like the perfect fit for my needs though. I was thinking of going with the cheaper Sony/JBL/Anker-Soundcore models(200-300 bucks in our currency) but the fear of purchasing a worse product than i already have stops me.

I could still go for the BT3S + V90(or any other IEM i guess, like KZ) for almost half the price of BW2 but, A-) i'd have to wait 2-3 weeks and B-) BW2 has a richer feature set, like you mentioned.

If the loudness and bass are good on BW2, i guess i'll have to pull the trigger on that one.

Edit: I actually found 1More Stylish which is cheaper than BW2(620TL vs 440TL)

https://www.hepsiburada.com/1more-e1026bt-stylish-true-wireless-kulaklik-black-p-HBV00000QXQKI

Are these the model you are referring to ? I'm asking because the ones i found might be the last year's model. I'd like to be sure.

Edit 2: Nevermind, neither sound quality, nor battery life fits my needs. And ANC only works with calls and there is no audio pass through. Back to OPBW2.


----------



## Luke Skywalker

eiraku said:


> The Bullets Wireless V2s are said to be a decent leap up in SQ from the V1s (which itself is a leap up from the EP52). If cash is an issue, I still think the older V1s are still worth looking at (it's been mentioned as decently performing buds in several places). Both of them also work very well with OP phones, with AptX HD support and also auto-pair/auto-play/auto-pause natively supported by Oxygen OS.
> 
> Unfortunately, I can't speak from actual experience as I ended up with something else for a neckband (read below)... though I did look hard at both of them prior to making my decision.
> 
> ...


I'd add Nuarl N6 Pro's to your list. I absolutely love the sound and they're cheap.  I'd love for them to come out with a pair with ANC and LDAC


----------



## eiraku (Apr 21, 2020)

azuha said:


> Yeah i checked your edited post, none of them exist here unfortunately(except The Sony WF1000XM3(1000 bucks in our currency), and Liberty Air(not Liberty 2 Air, 579 bucks in our currency). Only thing concerns me about BW2(620 bucks in our currency) is the loudness and bass. It seems like the perfect fit for my needs though. I was thinking of going with the cheaper Sony/JBL/Anker-Soundcore models(200-300 bucks in our currency) but the fear of purchasing a worse product than i already have stops me.
> 
> I could still go for the BT3S + V90(or any other IEM i guess, like KZ) for almost half the price of BW2 but, A-) i'd have to wait 2-3 weeks and B-) BW2 has a richer feature set, like you mentioned.
> 
> ...



Yep those are the Stylish. The 1More ANC is something else tho (more expensive + ANC, also has a carbon fibre backing vs the black one on the Stylish).

Everything I've heard about the BW2 seems to indicate that they have "enough" bass, but OFC it might not be comparable to the literal bass cannons the EP52 was (I remember those having enough to give me a headache sometimes). Unfortunately.

Oh 1More does have a neckband model as well, if you wanna look into that. But of course features wise the BW2 should mesh better with your OP7P.



Luke Skywalker said:


> I'd add Nuarl N6 Pro's to your list. I absolutely love the sound and they're cheap.  I'd love for them to come out with a pair with ANC and LDAC



Where I am, the Nuarls are actually considerably more expensive than the L2Ps lol. I'm kinda looking at them as an "upgrade" to the L2P if it ever came to that, but I'm kinda holding off for the newer TWSes with the next gen Qualcomm chips to hit first.


----------



## voicemaster

eiraku said:


> Yep those are the Stylish. The 1More ANC is something else tho (more expensive + ANC, also has a carbon fibre backing vs the black one on the Stylish).
> 
> Everything I've heard about the BW2 seems to indicate that they have "enough" bass, but OFC it might not be comparable to the literal bass cannons the EP52 was (I remember those having enough to give me a headache sometimes). Unfortunately.
> 
> ...


With the new released firmware for 1more ANC, the sound is more balance. They also have fixed the sound when ANC is on. I am using it more now than before and I rotate it with mifo07. I am ordering Nuarl N6 pro too.


----------



## azuha (Apr 21, 2020)

eiraku said:


> Yep those are the Stylish. The 1More ANC is something else tho (more expensive + ANC, also has a carbon fibre backing vs the black one on the Stylish).
> 
> Everything I've heard about the BW2 seems to indicate that they have "enough" bass, but OFC it might not be comparable to the literal bass cannons the EP52 was (I remember those having enough to give me a headache sometimes). Unfortunately.
> 
> ...



Well, that is bad news. The bass on EP52 is just right, only the quality of the mids and the highs are the flaws. I personally don't like the brand 'Xiaomi' anymore(used one of it's phone for more than 2 years, software is 'questionable and not trustworthy' to say the least. And their products started to have shorter life span with each new model, every year. That's why i'm not drawn to 1More as much as i'm drawn to, let's say, Anker/Soundcore, or KZ,...etc.

BW2 is/must be my last resort due to it's price and having less bass than EP52, but all the other features make it perfect for me. But with the new information you fellas provide, i started to look into TWS. Even though i'm not familiar with them.

Wireless headphones/TWS/earbuds/earphones whatever they are called, there shouldn't be this many options to be honest. It is almost impossible to pick the right fit for your needs.

Anyways, thanks everyone, search continues, until it doesn't and i pay a big premium price for the OPBW2s.


----------



## eiraku (Apr 21, 2020)

azuha said:


> Well, that is a bad news. The bass on EP52 is just right, only the quality of the mids and the highs are the flaws. I personally don't like the brand 'Xiaomi' anymore(used one of it's phone for more than 2 years, software is 'questionable and not trustworthy' to say the least. And their products started to have shorter life span with each new model, every year. That's why i'm not drawn to 1More as much as i'm drawn to, let's say, Anker/Soundcore, or KZ,...etc.
> 
> BW2 is/must be my last resort due to it's price and having less bass than EP52, but all the other features make it perfect for me. But with the new information you fellas provide, i started to look into TWS. Even though i'm not familiar with them.
> 
> ...



A bit of a side note, untweaked (left on "Signature" EQ), the L2Ps *already* has a rather copious amount of bass. OFC, you can add more easily with the custom EQ if that's what you want (even to EP52 levels probably), and the drivers usually comply without much drama.

Again, the L2Ps are rather "flexible" like that, and it's probably why I'm liking them so much nowadays. It's probably the first set of buds I have that has responded so well to EQing TBH... or maybe it's just the Soundcore app making it easy to do so (even with that sloppy EQ it has).

I've also heard the Sonys to be just as tweakable, but... well... for the rate they're going at, they better be lol.

However, it's a bit of a lottery if or not you get an L2P with the dreaded "hiss" (or arguably if your ears are sensitive enough to notice it). Mine are pretty hiss free to my ears (as they should be, being Rev3), but YMMV.



Spoiler



Finally, don't forget that there's also the BT3S. You can easily pair those with what ever 2Pin/MMCX IEMs that is bassy enough for your liking... and TRN has the BT20S too if you want a TWS (-ish) version of the same.

Both the BT3S and the BT20S do hiss a bit at idle with sensitive IEMs however... even if my BT3S doesn't with the V90 for some reason.


----------



## Synthy (Apr 22, 2020)

since it looks like no one (on any site at all) has gotten the astrotec s90 pros, and i really did want something with multiple Knowles BAs and not just sbc, so i ordered 'em and i'll post impressions when they get here from hifigo.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

We're getting closer to being there - my Westone W80 with the BT V2 cable are outstanding, and the BT cable for Audeze iSine 10 is quite good too. I'm getting ready to start trying out my Westone ES60 on their BT V2 cable, and then burning in my JH Audio 4-pin BT cable for my Roxanne, and another BT cable for my 2-pin JH 13 pro and JH 16 Pro freqphase custom IEM.

But the best bang for the buck so far seems to be my Sennheiser Momentum True Wireless buds, at $199 on Amazon now.
Review - Sennheiser Momentum True Wireless


----------



## leetl90

Came across this on Taobao while searching for an upgrade to my Nuarl NT01AX,
Has QCC5124, 10mm dynamic drivers and ANC. Might pull the trigger soon ...

233621 Zen


----------



## axhng

leetl90 said:


> Came across this on Taobao while searching for an upgrade to my Nuarl NT01AX,
> Has QCC5124, 10mm dynamic drivers and ANC. Might pull the trigger soon ...
> 
> 233621 Zen



kinda looks like the cleer ally?


----------



## benandfaith

How do wired IEMs compare to wireless? 

I've got the Galaxy Buds (OG) and the L2P (love the L2P - more energetic/lively, greater bass extension, greater soundstage than the GB).

Would getting something like a Blon BL-03 or ZS10 Pro be a noticeable/significant improvement over the L2P?


----------



## StIwY (Apr 25, 2020)

On these days i'm trying the Soundcore Liberty 2 Pro ( aka L2P), they are surprisingly good. Arrived, kept on charge, upgraded firmware, did a factory reset then i started to use them since a week now. I don't mess with the EQ, i'm talking about sound out-of-the-box)

The case is meh, this "slide" opening seems unreliable especially if you keep them in the pants pocket, but the fit, confort and the soundstage are really good. Tons of adapters too on bundle, which is a plus.

Also BT connection seems solid ( i use them on both PC and android smartphone). Right now on my country are on sale at 99 bucks. Definitely a great deal.

But Sennheiser MTW v1 & v2 soundstage is still unbeatable IMO. My TOP 3 IEM earbuds right, in terms of pure SOUND quality now is:

1- MTW v2  (to me, almost perfect, but pricey..........299)
2- Master & Dynamic MW07+ ( too pricey, & no touch controls, average passive isolation.........299 )
3- Soundcore L2P.  ( at 99 bucks are a must tho, they sound slighly less detailed, but more punchy sound overall than MW07+  )

Hope this helps, my 2 cents.


----------



## LordToneeus (Apr 22, 2020)

Synthy said:


> since it looks like no one (on any site at all) has gotten the astrotec s90 pros, and i really did want something with multiple Knowles BAs and not just sbc, so i ordered 'em and i'll post impressions when they get here from hifigo.


I have very fond memories of my Astrotec Motivation  (S80), so I look forward to your thoughts.


----------



## jant71 (Apr 22, 2020)

Synthy said:


> since it looks like no one (on any site at all) has gotten the astrotec s90 pros, and i really did want something with multiple Knowles BAs and not just sbc, so i ordered 'em and i'll post impressions when they get here from hifigo.





leetl90 said:


> Came across this on Taobao while searching for an upgrade to my Nuarl NT01AX,
> Has QCC5124, 10mm dynamic drivers and ANC. Might pull the trigger soon ...
> 
> 233621 Zen




Cool the guinea pigs trying the new and untested. That Zen though...






What is with the "233621"?  That will be a conversation piece when noticed. You could just say they started allowing TW in the prison you were in. 😏 They do indeed look like they come from the Ally Plus OEM. Not that the CLEER don't have different tuning or driver and better sound but a comparison would certainly be warranted.


I was gonna be a tester with the Sony WF-XB700 but I saw Elecom also releasing one around the same time. Very coincidental. They both have BT5.0 Class 1, Airoha MCSync, translucent lids to see the LEDs inside, and variations on the hourglass housing shape. But I like the red and smaller round footprint of the Elecom, the four dot LED inside the case instead of one on the Sony, ambient is only on the Elecom, and I like the spring loaded case on the Elecom. Elecom is always gonna give the better value so quite a bit cheaper than the Sony. Sony wins on the battery life per charge but they are the same including the case.


----------



## d3myz (Apr 22, 2020)

Anyone else receive a code from Tranya this morning to purchase the B530 Pro aka Upgraded B530 for 19.99? 

Just bought 2 pair for $42. code is ZM9WXRDV on Amazon.us at Checkout.


----------



## RemoGaggi

d3myz said:


> Anyone else receive a code from Tranya this morning to purchase the B530 Pro aka Upgraded B530 for 19.99?
> 
> Just bought 2 pair for $42. code is ZM9WXRDV on Amazon.us at Checkout.


Wow.  Thanks!  this is a no-brainer at that price.  I just ordered a pair.


----------



## martiniCZ

If someone like me has a bit of a lack of trebles detail on Soundpeats TrueDot (QCC3020), try replacing the stock mesh with a metal grid. I am completely satisfied now, sound is more airy and detailed. I know that not everyone likes this brighter sound, but for me it was the only reason to return to OnyxNeo for some genres before this mod of TrueDot.


----------



## Ynot1

Get 20 free disposable face masks when you order 2 units or more. Written on Tranya website. I'm not sure if Tranya on Amazon is different.


----------



## d3myz (Apr 22, 2020)

Also, I got another e-mail from Ida @ Tranya letting me know the Deep Bass version of the Rimor has been released, she's sending me one for demo. Details to follow. From what I can tell the changed the driver from an 10 mm to an 8mm. Sorry, if I missed the bus on this, be away for a while. It would appear now that both versions have USB-C now. The Rimor's I got when they were released had micro usb.


----------



## voicemaster

Always nice seeing this


----------



## Luchyres

jant71 said:


> Cool the guinea pigs trying the new and untested. That Zen though...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thanks for sharing - do you happen to have a link? I'm curious to see what driver size for the Elecom - do you see these slated as exercise oriented as well? Or what makes you compare them to the XB700 other than timing? 

I'm eyeing the XB700 myself for the 12mm driver.


----------



## Spidermanxd

voicemaster said:


> Always nice seeing this


I got mine few days ago, at first it didn't sound any good at all, but after more and 30 hours burned in, the sound open up and now sound fantastic, so make sure you burn it in first


----------



## d3myz (Apr 22, 2020)




----------



## voicemaster

Spidermanxd said:


> I got mine few days ago, at first it didn't sound any good at all, but after more and 30 hours burned in, the sound open up and now sound fantastic, so make sure you burn it in first


Oh for sure.


----------



## voicemaster

And it has arrived 

Initial reaction is this is pretty impressive sounding tws. Sound signature is pretty similar to 1more ANC (firmware 3.44) but the N6 has a more forward mid and even more treble. Will do more comparison after I use it more (burn in). So far, it sounds very good.


----------



## jant71

Luchyres said:


> Thanks for sharing - do you happen to have a link? I'm curious to see what driver size for the Elecom - do you see these slated as exercise oriented as well? Or what makes you compare them to the XB700 other than timing?
> 
> I'm eyeing the XB700 myself for the 12mm driver.



Both are built on the same chip/core and a variation of the hourglass shape to fit but they then branch off to different goals. XB700 is of course Sony's extra bass and the Elecom is for their Musician's Refererence that "pursues realism". Sony haven't released an exploded image of it but the driver is back farther in the design and the Elecom is a smaller 6mm driver placed in front of the housing and just after the lip that holds the tip on like so:



So, the Sony is letting the sound travel more and they don't mind a little reverb and decay for the extra bass while the Elecom is trying to keep things more clear by not traveling around in the housing. Of course it isn't going to be 12mm in size. I would guess the Sony might be more sports oriented based on signature alone. Elecom would be better in some situations since it has ambient. Fit is important and the Sony are bigger and how that first oval/ellipse shape fits your ear is very important to stay in for sports. They both won't have any fins to attach and the first part of the "hourglass" will hold them in. Sony has an IPX rating and the Elecom doesn't.

I did not so much compare them as decided I liked the Elecom design better. I like the Elecom button open lid more than the Sony lid which won't open on it's own and needs the second hand. Also the Elecom turn on and connect after the lid opens while the Sony don't till they are removed from their sockets. Also since they have the same see through design for the lids I like the Elecom 4 LED set up than Sony's one LED. The ambient seals the deal as does the early half of the Sony having a recessed midrange. Quite a bit cheaper doesn't hurt either. Warranty is an issue since the Sony is US and the Elecom is from Japan but I've not had an issue with 7 Elecom products over the years.
https://translate.google.com/transl...m.co.jp/products/LBT-TWS05RD.html&prev=search


----------



## Spidermanxd

voicemaster said:


> And it has arrived
> 
> Initial reaction is this is pretty impressive sounding tws. Sound signature is pretty similar to 1more ANC (firmware 3.44) but the N6 has a more forward mid and even more treble. Will do more comparison after I use it more (burn in). So far, it sounds very good.


Which one has the most bass?


----------



## FYLegend

https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/...e0JmGKN35SThbxeQrjBq67ACZZ70BBxVIsWXx_P3hsg#/

Needless to say Michael Jackson hates this company and sang about it in Morphine!
"He got FLAC, baby
Up to his neck, baby
He over-sexed, baby
I HATE YOBYBO!"


----------



## voicemaster

Spidermanxd said:


> Which one has the most bass?


1more ANC has the most bass from those three. But the N6 is much louder compared to 1more. Max volume in youtube and 90% on my pc volume for 1more is the same as max youtube volume and 70% on windows for the N6. The 1more has more body on the bass where the N6 is tighter and punchier. Both are not bass heavy tws especially 1more after firmware 3.44. They really turn down the bass by a LOT.


----------



## eiraku (Apr 23, 2020)

I wonder if the N6/N6 Pro comes with an app, tho I doubt it does.

But otherwise the setup (and hype) has me intrigued enough that I'll be keeping Nuarl on my next-gen watch list.


----------



## voicemaster

eiraku said:


> I wonder if the N6/N6 Pro comes with an app, tho I doubt it does.
> 
> But otherwise the setup (and hype) has me intrigued enough that I'll be keeping Nuarl on my next-gen watch list.


They don't have an app.


----------



## jant71 (Apr 23, 2020)

FYLegend said:


> https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/...e0JmGKN35SThbxeQrjBq67ACZZ70BBxVIsWXx_P3hsg#/
> 
> Needless to say Michael Jackson hates this company and sang about it in Morphine!
> "He got FLAC, baby
> ...



Nice find! but...



Do you really want a TW that came about from an engineer on the toilet thinking about "bones" and "c*ck"?? 

And now I'll always think toilet whenever I see these since I now know the inspiration for the shape.


----------



## Dobrescu George

I made a video review about BTR5. All the sass I always include with my videos, comedy, and some interesting things that I wanted to mention about it!


----------



## AudioNoob (Apr 23, 2020)

leetl90 said:


> Came across this on Taobao while searching for an upgrade to my Nuarl NT01AX,
> Has QCC5124, 10mm dynamic drivers and ANC. Might pull the trigger soon ...
> 
> 233621 Zen


That looks good, curious about tuning obviously, look forward to them hitting AX(if they do)
*oh wait, youtubers already have them! $170 is a bit much (on geekbuying etc)


----------



## Spidermanxd

AudioNoob said:


> That looks good, curious about tuning obviously, look forward to them hitting AX(if they do)
> *oh wait, youtubers already have them! $170 is a bit much (on geekbuying etc)


Not $170, ranging from 85-99,


----------



## WesennTony

mw07 plus on sale at amazon for $224.25


----------



## Spidermanxd

Anyone here have both the sennheiser true wireless 1 and 2, can the 1 charge in the 2 case


----------



## Dobrescu George

If anyone is a fan of the 1More Stylish IEMs, I made a full in-depth written review about it  

https://www.audiophile-heaven.com/2020/04/1more-quad-driver-iems-and-stylish-tws.html


----------



## eiraku (Apr 23, 2020)

jant71 said:


> Nice find! but...
> 
> Do you really want a TW that came about from an engineer on the toilet thinking about "bones" and "c*ck"??
> 
> And now I'll always think toilet whenever I see these since I now know the inspiration for the shape.



Holy that's hilarious lol 😂

I've always doubted the practically of these though, despite everything actually looking kinda funky. Isn't a TWS case's main raison d'etre (other than to charge) is to... well... encase the buds for protection (at least from dust and lint and stuff)?

These... don't look like they'll be able to do a good job at just that 🤣

If they add in a thin plastic lid or cover or something around the case (possibly magnetically latched) somewhere along the line, it miiiight just work.

Oh, now that we've started to reference hyped upcoming crowdfund-y stuff, anybody know what happened to the SONGXs?


----------



## AudioNoob

Spidermanxd said:


> Not $170, ranging from 85-99,



That's the taobao domestic price.


----------



## IEManiac

Dobrescu George said:


> If anyone is a fan of the 1More Stylish IEMs, I made a full in-depth written review about it
> 
> https://www.audiophile-heaven.com/2020/04/1more-quad-driver-iems-and-stylish-tws.html


About nine months late, methinks...


----------



## cleg

my video about KZ S2, in case someone is interested in a fun IEMs with V-shaped signature


----------



## aspirina750

I have to make a choice, I already own the Sony XM3, the Buds+ and the APP and I have store credit that have to use before Tuesday, the current options in the shop are the Jabra Active 75T, the old Momentum and the Lypertek Tevi... Which ones would fill a spot on my lineup? I was thinking the Jabra for the extra bass umph but the Tevi reviews are so good that make me doubt... Any advice?

Thanks


----------



## eiraku (Apr 24, 2020)

aspirina750 said:


> I have to make a choice, I already own the Sony XM3, the Buds+ and the APP and I have store credit that have to use before Tuesday, the current options in the shop are the Jabra Active 75T, the old Momentum and the Lypertek Tevi... Which ones would fill a spot on my lineup? I was thinking the Jabra for the extra bass umph but the Tevi reviews are so good that make me doubt... Any advice?
> 
> Thanks



As long as you get the "newer" Tevis (the packaging is different), they should be an interesting choice TBH. Decent imaging and thump with the new firmware supposedly. Not too thrilled with the button style and the lack of wings, but those are minor niggles TBH.

The 75T seems to have a thing about one side having volume cutting out randomly (or something, I can't remember specifically but I do remember it was pretty significant). It's all over the Wirecutter's comment section (and some parts of Reddit) if you care to go check.

The Senn V1s? Well... They are what they are lol. I kinda like their sound sig but nowadays they're pretty outclassed technically everywhere else (that 4hr battery life for example).


----------



## jant71 (Apr 24, 2020)

From the "ag" branch of Final, the TWS04($146 current converted price)...





*■ High sound quality specifications supervised by the audio brand final The sound*
quality is fully supervised by the Japanese audio brand final. Suppresses the sound quality that makes Bluetooth tired, which is easy to hear, and combines clear, transparent vocals with sufficient bass.

*■ aptX compatible*
with continuous and high-quality sound In addition to SBC and AAC, it also supports aptX, which is a continuous and high-quality codec. It supports a wide range of iPhone and Android models, and pairing is easy.

*■ Compatible with both waterproof performance and sound quality With the*
newly developed waterproof mechanism, high waterproof performance is achieved without impairing the sound quality.

*■ Up to 180 hours of music playback*
Up to 9 hours of music playback on a single charge. Ultra long battery specification that can play for up to 180 hours using the included charging case.

*■ The*
charging case equipped with a large-capacity battery of 2600mAh *with a mobile battery function* can also be used as a mobile battery.

*■ High waterproof specifications IPX7 With*
IPX7 waterproof specifications, it can be used safely even in the rain or in sports.

*■ Charging case with leather grain finish The charging case with leather grain finish has a nice*
texture and is easy to touch.

*■ Supreme comfort The*
new earpiece designed for perfect wireless earphones, final "TYPE E exclusive wireless specification" is included in 5 sizes.

*■ If lost, you can purchase one ear*
If you accidentally lose one ear, you can purchase only one ear on the ag official website.

Specifications:

Model number: AG-TWS04K
Communication method: Bluetooth 5.0
Playback frequency band: 20Hz 20KHz
Compatible codec: SBC, AAC, Qualcomm aptX audio
Compatible profile: A2DP, AVRCP, HSP, HFP
Continuous music playback time: Up to 9 hours (up to 180 hours including case) )
Charging time: Earphone body: 2 hours / case: 4 hours
Battery capacity: Earphone one ear 45mAh / case 2600mAh
Accessories: Charging case, earpiece (final TYPE E complete wireless specification) 5 sizes, USB type C charging cable


----------



## eiraku (Apr 24, 2020)

jant71 said:


> *■ If lost, you can purchase one ear*
> If you accidentally lose one ear, you can purchase only one ear on the ag official website.



Seriously, a lot more companies should consider doing just this... Selling individual earbuds and/or empty charging cases separately.

Also, I'm pretty spoiled by my L2P wireless charging case but that case being able to double as an emergency phone power bank is an interesting alternative feature TBH.

And FA tuned sound hmmmmmm.

If it turns out to be good, might just be a toss up between it and the N6 Pros at that price.


----------



## Dobrescu George

IEManiac said:


> About nine months late, methinks...


 


Or as I call it, right on time! 

Sorry, I promised in the video of the 1More TWS I'd be done quicker, but I had to move, then the COVID panic started, and I couldn't get to take the pics I wanted. 

Now I managed to sort that out, so I'm pushing about 1 review each 2 days


----------



## marcusd

Our review of the 1MORE True Wireless ANC is now posted.

This is the latest firmware upgrade version with tweaks to their ANC sound profile.

https://headfonics.com/2020/04/1more-true-wireless-anc-wireless-weekend/


----------



## TheLionelHutz

jant71 said:


> From the "ag" branch of Final, the TWS04($146 current converted price)...
> 
> 
> *■ High sound quality specifications supervised by the audio brand final The sound*
> ...



That's very interesting. No information about the driver though? That's a little suspect.


----------



## voicemaster

After spending 3 days (more than 30 hours) with the Nuarl N6 pro, I am still impressed by how this tws sound. 

-Build quality: Everything is made of plastic, but a high grade one at that. It feels solid and the buds themselves are pretty light compare to 1more ANC. The case is made of plastic too and I've seen people complain about the hinge being flimsy and its not, it just feels flimsy, but it is pretty solid actually. The magnet to close the lid is the strongest I've seen on any tws case. 

-Sound quality: The bass is tight and punchy with enough body. It is not a basshead tws for sure. The mid is forward and not thin nor thick, for me it just right. The treble is airy, cymbals has nice decay and attack. Details is very good, timbre is probably the best on any tws that I have so far, instrument separation is spot on. This Nuarl N6 pro has taken the first spot on my tws list. Also, the N6 has the highest volume available on any of my tws so far. I normally listen with my S20+ at 80-90% volume on my 1more ANC, 70-80% on my mifo07, 60-70% on N6.

-Battery life: 8 hours on AptX is plenty and you can even increase it even further by selecting AAC to 11 hours.

-Control: Volume +/-, play/pause, <</>>, voice assistant are all there on the earbuds. And you can use only one of them (Left or Right only) while still having all the controls.

-Connectivity: The bluetooth range and signal is very stable. It connect to my phone (Samsung S20+ and my surface book in literally under 3 seconds). I haven't test the length of the signal yet because I am still quarantining myself in my bedroom.

-Improvements: With this style of tws, you would expect to have ANC or ambiance mode. The N6 definitely has the space for any of those features. The case is kinda on the bulky side, but not as bad as Mpow M5 and it can charge the tws 4 times. 

As Nuarl N6 pro become my no.1 favorite tws, I highly recommend it for people who is looking for audiophile quality sound in tws form factor.


----------



## Spidermanxd

voicemaster said:


> After spending 3 days (more than 30 hours) with the Nuarl N6 pro, I am still impressed by how this tws sound.
> 
> -Build quality: Everything is made of plastic, but a high grade one at that. It feels solid and the buds themselves are pretty light compare to 1more ANC. The case is made of plastic too and I've seen people complain about the hinge being flimsy and its not, it just feels flimsy, but it is pretty solid actually. The magnet to close the lid is the strongest I've seen on any tws case.
> 
> ...


Wow 60-70% that very loud, I used it with my s20 ultra and can't go past 15%, basically 1 click from mute


----------



## voicemaster

Spidermanxd said:


> Wow 60-70% that very loud, I used it with my s20 ultra and can't go past 15%, basically 1 click from mute


Well normally I listened around this blue level (red level is very loud)


----------



## Sebulr

voicemaster said:


> Well normally I listened around this blue level (red level is very loud)


I love media monkey as a music management tool. Not used it on android for a few years, though. Thumbs up from me


----------



## Vilssoni

Have anyone tested Nokia's Power puds Bh-605? 

It is looking interesting with its 6mm graphene drivers and good 3000mah capasity on the charging case.


----------



## howdy

I got the Tevis yesterday and tried them out today, these are not for me. I tried the Spinfits and everything, I don't think they seal right for me or something. I'm much more impressed with the ones I own already. They will be going back.


----------



## Avenida

webreaper said:


> Hi all,
> 
> Haven't posted much as I've been pretty happy with the Senn IE80s over the last couple of years. But I'm getting a bit fed up with having to replace the cable every 8-12 months. The IE80s are fantastic sound-wise, and I have custom-moulded sleeves which give a wonderful fit and great sound isolation. I was originally looking for a wireless lanyard like the Westone BT cable 78548, but unfortunately the IE80s use a custom connector, and I can't find an equivalent wireless converter that'll fit the Senns (there's some $5 ones on Alibaba, but I've no confidence that they'll have decent SQ, battery life or reliability).
> 
> ...


You could get a Bluetooth DAC, or a wireless cable for IEMs. I don't think we're at the fully-wireless stage yet!


----------



## Spidermanxd

My n6 pro I got about 6 hours, and mavin air xr about 5 hours, both were suppose to be 10 hours of used, I used both to listen music video on YouTube, does watching video drain the battery more if just listen to music, my source is s20 ultra, volume at 15% for both.


----------



## assassin10000

Spidermanxd said:


> My n6 pro I got about 6 hours, and mavin air xr about 5 hours, both were suppose to be 10 hours of used, I used both to listen music video on YouTube, does watching video drain the battery more if just listen to music, my source is s20 ultra, volume at 15% for both.



Does your phone have TWS+ enabled? Were you on AAC or APT-X?

Need to use AAC & TWS+ to get max battery life, afaik. I get about 5.5-6.5 hours on my Air-XR on APT-X & my Pixel 3 XL, which doesn't support TWS+. Even though my chipset supports it, the software/firmware doesn't (android 10).


----------



## Spidermanxd

assassin10000 said:


> Does your phone have TWS+ enabled? Were you on AAC or APT-X?
> 
> Need to use AAC & TWS+ to get max battery life, afaik. I get about 5.5-6.5 hours on my Air-XR on APT-X & my Pixel 3 XL, which doesn't support TWS+. Even though my chipset supports it, the software/firmware doesn't (android 10).


How do you turn on tws+ and how to choose codecs?


----------



## voicemaster (Apr 25, 2020)

Spidermanxd said:


> How do you turn on tws+ and how to choose codecs?


My bad it's not on developer option.


----------



## assassin10000

Spidermanxd said:


> How do you turn on tws+ and how to choose codecs?



You can't enable or disable TWS+, that is done by the manufacturer.

To change codecs you need to turn on developer options and then select the codec you want. This resets every use, so you'll need to do it every time you use the tws.


----------



## Spidermanxd

assassin10000 said:


> You can't enable or disable TWS+, that is done by the manufacturer.
> 
> To change codecs you need to turn on developer options and then select the codec you want. This resets every use, so you'll need to do it every time you use the tws.


Man that's suck, by the way did you receive the Sony wf-1000xm3 yet


----------



## assassin10000

Spidermanxd said:


> Man that's suck, by the way did you receive the Sony wf-1000xm3 yet



Not yet, hit the local hub Thursday but no updates since. Maybe on Monday?


----------



## voicemaster

assassin10000 said:


> You can't enable or disable TWS+, that is done by the manufacturer.
> 
> To change codecs you need to turn on developer options and then select the codec you want. This resets every use, so you'll need to do it every time you use the tws.


Usually it will default with what the tws manufacturer set. All my AptX tws will always default to AptX on android. Most of the time, it will choose the best codec supported.


----------



## Spidermanxd

So there no way to fix the battery issues?


----------



## voicemaster (Apr 25, 2020)

Spidermanxd said:


> So there no way to fix the battery issues?


I don't know but I got 7+ hours constantly and I listened pretty loud too. I mainly use my N6pro with my pc for long listening session, when using my phone, I usually only use my N6 for max like 1 hour or so.


----------



## FYLegend

Anyone else having battery case drain issues with the Galaxy Buds+? It seems there's a fair number of complaints and in my experience it discharges quite rapidly after about 4-6 hours of use. I do wonder if part of the problem is that the buds don't constantly sit properly in the case (if you open and shake the case you can see the internal charge LED blink).I'm thinking of getting a replacement but will probably wait until this mess is over. Wondering if anyone knows whether Samsung Canada requires you to send it in before receiving a replacement.


----------



## Dobrescu George

The BLU-300 Bluetooth IEMS from Brainwavz were interesting while they lasted (?) Hard to find stock anywhere. For 40 USD, only SBC, but they are light and although they don't have a lot of detail, are worth their price I'd say. 

https://www.audiophile-heaven.com/2020/04/brainwavz-hm100-headphones-blu-300-bt.html


----------



## Spidermanxd

Dobrescu George said:


> The BLU-300 Bluetooth IEMS from Brainwavz were interesting while they lasted (?) Hard to find stock anywhere. For 40 USD, only SBC, but they are light and although they don't have a lot of detail, are worth their price I'd say.
> 
> https://www.audiophile-heaven.com/2020/04/brainwavz-hm100-headphones-blu-300-bt.html


I see wires, so it not consider wireless,


----------



## chinmie

Dobrescu George said:


> The BLU-300 Bluetooth IEMS from Brainwavz were interesting while they lasted (?) Hard to find stock anywhere. For 40 USD, only SBC, but they are light and although they don't have a lot of detail, are worth their price I'd say.
> 
> https://www.audiophile-heaven.com/2020/04/brainwavz-hm100-headphones-blu-300-bt.html



sadly this thread is for true wireless only...


----------



## voicemaster

This song has very nice cymbals sound and Nuarl N6 pro absolutely nails it.


----------



## bronco1015

jant71 said:


> From the "ag" branch of Final, the TWS04($146 current converted price)...
> 
> 
> *■ High sound quality specifications supervised by the audio brand final The sound*
> ...


part of me thinks these will just sound similar to the nuarl N6Pro, part of me also has to admit, if i hadn't been burned so badly by Final i'd be interested in them. Objectively though, probably gonna be a solid offering at a decent price.


----------



## Francesco Montanari

FYLegend said:


> Anyone else having battery case drain issues with the Galaxy Buds+? It seems there's a fair number of complaints and in my experience it discharges quite rapidly after about 4-6 hours of use. I do wonder if part of the problem is that the buds don't constantly sit properly in the case (if you open and shake the case you can see the internal charge LED blink).I'm thinking of getting a replacement but will probably wait until this mess is over. Wondering if anyone knows whether Samsung Canada requires you to send it in before receiving a replacement.



Me.. and i received replacement 4 days ago with same problem... case cannot last more then 5 days using buds 1h per day.


----------



## bronco1015

voicemaster said:


> After spending 3 days (more than 30 hours) with the Nuarl N6 pro, I am still impressed by how this tws sound.
> 
> -Build quality: Everything is made of plastic, but a high grade one at that. It feels solid and the buds themselves are pretty light compare to 1more ANC. The case is made of plastic too and I've seen people complain about the hinge being flimsy and its not, it just feels flimsy, but it is pretty solid actually. The magnet to close the lid is the strongest I've seen on any tws case.
> 
> ...


Glad to hear the Pros have been good to you. they are for SQ True wireless TOTL imo. Very complementary to the MTW's for me. When i got them back in January i was worried about whether or not the hinge would be durable, as it does feel flimsy to me. But knock on wood, it has held up just fine. you may be tired of hearing stuff like this but I hope recovery is still going well for you.


----------



## bronco1015

I burned my Amazon credit on a 2nd pair of the Backbeat pro 5100. I needed great call quality, and i knew from having a pair last Fall that these had been the best for that out of all the models i've tried. These weren't worth the full MSRP then, and they definitely aren't now, but for free thanks to a gift card i won at work, i'd say they're worth it haha. Some others i have aren't bad for calls, but these take the cake. just wish i could eq the sound a bit for music, but for some rock, metal, hipHop and some electronic they do well.
i've been going back and forth on keeping the MTW2, is a slight reduction in SQ preference vs the 1st gen MTW worth keeping them for their better battery life, slightly better fit and ANC? IN the end for me, it is. yeah there are going to be some new models with ANC thanks to the new QC chips they'll arrive with, but will i like the over all sound of any of them as much as i like the MTW2? Who knows. i'd say if you don't have a use case for ANC, then among many others, the 1st gen MTW at less than $200 wouldn't be a bad way to go. That's not to say i don't like the 2nd gen's SQ, i just wish i could add a little mor pop to snares etc. and bring the mids down juuust a touch.
at TMA6  how are you liking the XM3's?


----------



## Cya|\|

How is the current situation of wireless iems? Are they good? 

How about the included microphones? Are they good, and can they be used to substitute an external mic for v-logging?


----------



## bronco1015

Spidermanxd said:


> Anyone here have both the sennheiser true wireless 1 and 2, can the 1 charge in the 2 case


I have them both. The 1 is bigger than the 2. It wouldn't fit in the 2's case.


----------



## Dobrescu George

Spidermanxd said:


> I see wires, so it not consider wireless,



Aaah, sorry, my bad  



chinmie said:


> sadly this thread is for true wireless only...



Oooh, I understand  

---

On this note, I noticed most companies have ditched the around the neck / neckband design in favor of TWS these days


----------



## howdy

You can get any master and dynamic for 25%off anything over 100 dollars. The MW07 plus can be had for 224USD, that's got me considering a pair.


----------



## chinmie

Dobrescu George said:


> Aaah, sorry, my bad
> 
> 
> 
> ...



neckband design still have their place though, some people actually prefer having connecting wires between the earpiece to reduce falling and misplacing risks. also usually they have longer single playtime battery, and have simultaneous multiple device ability. 

you might want to make review comparing the TRN BT20S, Fiio, Fostex, and Shure. people would be interested in the subject


----------



## clerkpalmer

howdy said:


> You can get any master and dynamic for 25%off anything over 100 dollars. The MW07 plus can be had for 224USD, that's got me considering a pair.


Steal at that price.


----------



## varta

bronco1015 said:


> Glad to hear the Pros have been good to you. they are for SQ True wireless TOTL imo. Very complementary to the MTW's for me. When i got them back in January i was worried about whether or not the hinge would be durable, as it does feel flimsy to me. But knock on wood, it has held up just fine. you may be tired of hearing stuff like this but I hope recovery is still going well for you.



Hey, wondering if you (or anyone else ) did / could do a direct comparison between the MTWs (ideally MTW2s) and the Nuarl N6 Pro? I'm curious mainly about SQ, trying to understand which is the best sounding TWS right now and if we already got to the point where TWS can compete with mid range IEMs like the VSonic GR07 and similar...


----------



## voicemaster

varta said:


> Hey, wondering if you (or anyone else ) did / could do a direct comparison between the MTWs (ideally MTW2s) and the Nuarl N6 Pro? I'm curious mainly about SQ, trying to understand which is the best sounding TWS right now and if we already got to the point where TWS can compete with mid range IEMs like the VSonic GR07 and similar...


The Nuarl N6 pro sounds better than my universal 1964 V6S ($700). I don't have the MTW to compare so I can't comment on it, but the Nuarl N6 pro is really next level in term of sound from my collection of TWS so far. The only TWS that can compete SQ wise is Mifo07, but they have different sound signature. But the N6 fits wider genre of music, be it EDM, dubstep, jazz, rock, classic, etc. The only thing missing are ANC and ambiance mode which the MTW2 has.


----------



## jant71

Another Sony WF-XB700 review: https://www.androidpolice.com/2020/04/23/sony-wf-xb700-review/

I basically agree. $99 is more appropriate without ambient or on board EQ or more than just one recharge from the case. Typical Sony they always try to get a bit more than they should and then drop. Just like the NC model which is more appropriate at the $239 than the starting price.


----------



## vladzakhar

varta said:


> Hey, wondering if you (or anyone else ) did / could do a direct comparison between the MTWs (ideally MTW2s) and the Nuarl N6 Pro? I'm curious mainly about SQ, trying to understand which is the best sounding TWS right now and if we already got to the point where TWS can compete with mid range IEMs like the VSonic GR07 and similar...


I prefer MTW2s over Nuarl N6 pros for sound stage, instrument separation and just overall SQ. But not much maybe 10-15% better.


----------



## Antenne

Still nobody has tried those EPZ S350S (Pro)? https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000891437908.html Apart from the gorgeous looks and the nice specs (APTX, wireless charging + USB-C, ...) I wonder how they sound. The EPZ brand seems to be rather new, but according to their homepage (https://epzsz.com/bluetooth-earphone/) the company is in the OEM business for some time.
Unfortunately, almost nothing can be found about these TWS so far, but at the rather high price you don't buy them out of curiosity ...
Upcoming discounts at AE made me think about them again...


----------



## eiraku

voicemaster said:


> The Nuarl N6 pro sounds better than my universal 1964 V6S ($700). I don't have the MTW to compare so I can't comment on it, but the Nuarl N6 pro is really next level in term of sound from my collection of TWS so far. The only TWS that can compete SQ wise is Mifo07, but they have different sound signature. But the N6 fits wider genre of music, be it EDM, dubstep, jazz, rock, classic, etc. The only thing missing are ANC and ambiance mode which the MTW2 has.



So, what are the differences between the Mifo 07 and the N6 Pro signature-wise? I'm curious as I am quite interested in the Nuarls and you say that the Mifos can compete.


----------



## bronco1015 (Apr 26, 2020)

varta said:


> Hey, wondering if you (or anyone else ) did / could do a direct comparison between the MTWs (ideally MTW2s) and the Nuarl N6 Pro? I'm curious mainly about SQ, trying to understand which is the best sounding TWS right now and if we already got to the point where TWS can compete with mid range IEMs like the VSonic GR07 and similar...


I can do mor of a comparison of the 2, but for now i'll just say if SQ is your top priority and you don't have a similar desire for ANC, transparency mode etc, then the Nuarls would be the way to go. They're nearly half the price of the MTW2. They have a sound that imo does rival mid priced iems, i haven't heard the VSonics you mentioned FWIW. Before i got the mtw2 i considered getting rid of the nuarls but having them both makes for a really solid rotation with everything else i have. Edit, i have spent a lot of time with both of these, and just took a few mins listening to different tracks and i think at Vladzakhar summed it up pretty well, i have similar thoughts. I like the SQ of the MTW2 mor, but not by much. I don't know what his EQ settings are for the MTW2, but i agree. Both are great at instrument placement, soundstage a tad better on the MTW, and both are king for detail and retrieval. one other thing i have to add that works in the nuarl's favor for me is that this sound they have is default. i had to eq the MTW2 for a sound i like out of them.


----------



## mentega

bronco1015 said:


> I can do mor of a comparison of the 2, but for now i'll just say if SQ is your top priority and you don't have a similar desire for ANC, transparency mode etc, then the Nuarls would be the way to go. They're nearly half the price of the MTW2. They have a sound that imo does rival mid priced iems, i haven't heard the VSonics you mentioned FWIW. Before i got the mtw2 i considered getting rid of the nuarls but having them both makes for a really solid rotation with everything else i have. Edit, i have spent a lot of time with both of these, and just took a few mins listening to different tracks and i think at Vladzakhar summed it up pretty well, i have similar thoughts. I like the SQ of the MTW2 mor, but not by much. I don't know what his EQ settings are for the MTW2, but i agree. Both are great at instrument placement, soundstage a tad better on the MTW, and both are king for detail and retrieval. one other thing i have to add that works in the nuarl's favor for me is that this sound they have is default. i had to eq the MTW2 for a sound i like out of them.


what are your eq settings in the mtw2?


----------



## voicemaster (Apr 26, 2020)

eiraku said:


> So, what are the differences between the Mifo 07 and the N6 Pro signature-wise? I'm curious as I am quite interested in the Nuarls and you say that the Mifos can compete.


My mifo07 is the all BA one so the bass is more of a tight and punchy kinda lean type of bass. I was so used to DD+BA IEM so at first I tried to compensate by turning up the volume but it also introduced me to a fatal flaw on the mifo07 which the BA drivers will start to have crackle when the bass drop. The bass on the N6 is more DD type of bass but it is not the boomy kind of bass, but more tight and punchy while still have those sweet rumble. Bass guitar has that heft to it so you can "feel" it instead of just it being there.

The mid is the main focus on the mifo07, when I first listened to mine, the mid was straight kinda in your face type. The mid is thick but not as thick as Shure's mid and the detail is amazing, the best I've heard so far in TWS. The N6 also has forward mid, but not as much as mifo07 and it is not as thick too. Still it has nice balance being not overly thick nor thin imho. Details is also very good.

Both has very good treble, but I have to give it to the N6 here as it is just a bit better decay especially on cymbals. Both has very good detail.

Since the mifo07 has leaner bass, it can be classified as being brighter sounding, while the N6 is more controlled fun sounding.

Here is the volume difference between the two:


The mifo07 actually start to crackle at that level. No dolby atmost nor EQ.

PS: mifo07 has the smallest *metal *case out there even smaller/similar than airpods and is my go to TWS when I was laying on the bed as it is very low profile and has decent microphone for calling.


----------



## tma6

bronco1015 said:


> at TMA6  how are you liking the XM3's?



Hey man, yeah I’ve been swamped with work so haven’t had the time to churn out a full review, but had a little time today so here goes:

I know a bunch of people on here don’t love the sq of the xm3s, and after about a week and a half of listening I agree they are not perfect, but to my ears they’re probably my second favorite sounding TWS outside of the N6 Pros right now. I’ll get into it in some detail, for me the timbre is pretty great, much better than expected. The overall usability is also excellent, and for some reason they fit my ears real nicely, though I know this is not the case for everyone so your mileage may vary. Anyway here’s my breakdown.

Sound quality: Just as a disclaimer, all my sound impressions were done with ANC turned on because I find the sound better with it on than off. Overall I’d describe the sound quality of the xm3s as forward and crisp, but smooth. It’s got an excellent tonal balance and is very versatile. Plays well with pretty much everything I listened to. It’s not audiophile grade but it definitely has above average detail retrieval for a TWS. I’m very happy with them particularly since the features work so well, and it has one of the best EQs that I’ve come across, period.

Bass: The bass lacks a little detail but it’s pretty damn clean and has good extension and weight, without being overpowering. There’s no distortion, and bloat is very minimal. It’s actually got a great level of punchiness and richness, but it’s not as enveloping as the MTW2s or the L2Ps. It’s definitely fast though and and gives music a great energy. In many ways it’s similar to the bass on the original MW07s. Compared with the N6Ps the xm3s bass has more power and depth, but the N6P have much more detail and air. Overall the bass is really nice, unoffensive, and clean.

Mids: The mids are nice and smooth, a little forward, and there’s some really nice instrument and vocal detail. The MTW2s have slightly more detailed vocals, but it’s pretty marginal, and the xm3s have better instrument representation and tonality for me. The timbre is pretty spot on, not as natural and realistic as the N6Ps but better than other mid forward TWS like the APPs or MTW2s. There’s also a nice sense of depth and detail, giving the presentation some fullness, however some of the more finite qualities of certain instruments, such as the attack of a violin string or the pressure build up in a trumpet blare, are a bit smoothed out, probably to orient to a more base-line consumer sound. In the end though, the mids are in many ways where these things shine, with excellent tonality and slightly forward presentation.

Highs: The highs are not perfect, but pretty solid. The mid highs are excellent. Some of my favorites on any TWS. They manage an almost perfect balance between being clean and crisp and up front, without ever becoming harsh. The very top end though is a little dropped off. It’s definitely there but you sometimes have to try to listen for it instead of it just effortlessly being presented to you. Cymbals are not quite where I want them to be, they’ve got good attack and decay, but still have a bit of mushiness sometimes. This is just a persistent problem on TWS in my opinion, but these are not nearly as offensive in this regard as the APPs. I still think the N6Ps are just way better than anything else out there for highs. While not quite as good as the N6Ps, the highs on the Tevis are also a bit cleaner and realistic than the xm3s, but the xm3s are more full, rich and warm sounding overall.

Soundstage and Imaging: When comparing the xm3s to the N6Ps, the N6Ps have a wider soundstage and are the clear winners for imaging - but really the N6Ps have better imaging than some wired iems that I’ve heard. The Tevis and L2Ps are also slightly wider. That being said, the stage on the xm3s is not terrible. It’s got a good width to it, but since the mid-bass, mids, and mid highs are a bit forward sometimes the music can feel a bit closed in on certain busy tracks. I do sometimes notice certain things out in the distance though and the instrument separation is good enough that it never really feels congested. Instrument separation was better on the MTW2s overall, but the actual stage of the MTW2s was much more in my head than on the xm3s.
The imaging on the xm3s is pretty good, and does provide distinct spaces for instruments, but it’s not as logical as the N6Ps. The imaging is better on the xm3s than the L2Ps though, which can get a bit disjointed. All in all I’d say the xm3s have enough technical ability in this department to prevent the sound from being clustered or sounding disorganized. I’d say average soundstage and above average imaging.

All in all, the xm3s are a bit of a jack of all trades master of none for sound quality. But they do everything pretty well, and that’s actually kind of impressive in its own right. They work well for pretty much every genre of music and are ridiculously well balanced. I’d say the stand out feature is the timbre, it’s just a nice tonality that gives a good vibrancy to the music without being artificial. The mid highs are also fantastic, it’s hard to strike that balance between clarity and harshness and the xm3s do just that. I’m generally just impressed with how these sound. They’re not up to par with the N6Ps, but not much in the TWS space is at the moment in my opinion and these have some great extra features that are missing on the N6Ps, which I will discuss more below.

Look/Fit: This is a subjective category. I think they’re a bit bulky but look pretty decent and don’t stick out much which is nice. The fit is definitely an issue for some but not for me for the most part. They definitely sometimes need some readjustment after an hour of listening or so, but I find them pretty comfortable. Not ideal for working out as they bobble around a bit in the ear. 

Extra Features: These are loaded with features and they all work great. The ANC is the best that I’ve tried so far. They do an excellent job cancelling out low rumbles and even do a good job on some higher frequencies. The one issue is that you need a good seal otherwise the ANC does not work as well. These also have a mode where you can use some of the internal ANC mics while also cancelling out wind noise and it works like a charm. The ANC is not quite as effective in this mode but there’s no wind noise which has been a real issue when using other ANC buds. Ambient mode is also great and you can customize how much to let in in the app. It works very well though there is a slight amplification effect. The app is a little glitchy sometimes but overall works well and the EQ is just fantastic. You can completely change how these things sound in the EQ settings but they never change to the point of sounding crappy. A good example is that even if you raise the bass level super high it never becomes distorted. Also can improve clarity in the highs with EQ without changing overall tonality. The only annoyance is that you can’t have volume controls on the buds while also controlling ANC and playback from the buds. You have to swap one of those sets of controls out if you want volume controls. I hope they can somehow fix this at some point but I doubt it. Another thing is the lack of water resistance, but I usually don’t expose my TWS to water. Overall though, one of the best feature sets I’ve seen on a TWS.

Battery: Battery is decent and lasts about 6 hours with ANC on, which is much better than the 4.5 hours I got with the MTW2s. With it off I got around 7.5 hours, but I like the sound better when it’s on. The only thing is if you want to use the DSEE HX function (have to use it without EQ), then the battery drains significantly and only lasts around 3.5 hours. I do think this function improves the highs and stage slightly but I’ve often turned it off bc of battery drain.

Case: The case is nice and premium though on the large side. Small thing but I love the hinge, it’s as close to the APPs case hinge as I’ve tried in terms of usability. Also the magnets are excellent and the buds are really easy to take in and out of the case.

Microphone/calls: Call quality has been surprisingly solid for me, particularly indoors where people can’t even tell I’m wearing a headset. I also took a call on a walk yesterday and it was super windy and the person on the other side could still hear me clearly without having to yell, though could also hear the wind in the background. Overall pretty usable to be honest, but haven’t had much of a chance to test this out too much given that nyc is on lockdown.

Connectivity: Connectivity has been fantastic with my phone, though not as great with my windows computer. They have gotten better over time with the computer though for some reason, but still stutters sometimes.

Conclusion: Overall, the xm3s are some of my favorite TWS that Ive used so far. The sound is really nice and balanced, and it’s probably the most versatile set of TWS I own. Plays every genre I throw at it at least reasonably well. Also the ANC is really great. Once you get a good seal, they’re just better than any other ANC bud I’ve tried - including the APP, MW07+, MTW2s, and Ausounds Hybrid. Really great features and very good sound make this a top choice for me, though I know some on this thread are not as high on them as I am. Sound is definitely subjective and these are my opinions, absolutely not saying that anyone else is wrong, just going off what my ears are telling me. 

————————————————————

In other news, while listening and doing comparisons for the xm3s, I concluded the N6Ps are still as close to a wired set of IEMs that I’ve heard to date. They just sound fantastic. I actually have the Thieaudio Legacy 3s coming tomorrow so I’m excited to see how the N6Ps stack up. Might do a quick comparison of the two.

Also, I’ve done a bunch of true wireless reviews at this point now so I might congregate them somewhere, like on a website, if people would be interested. Might also do a top ten list here soon.


----------



## tma6

Also for those who are trying to get more impressions on the Naurl N6 Pros, here’s my full review again for those who didn’t see it:

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/goi...soon-or-are-we-there-yet.861024/post-15403547


----------



## voicemaster

tma6 said:


> In other news, while listening and doing comparisons for the xm3s, *I concluded the N6Ps are still as close to a wired set of IEMs that I’ve heard to date. They just sound fantastic. *I actually have the Thieaudio Legacy 3s coming tomorrow so I’m excited to see how the N6Ps stack up. Might do a quick comparison of the two.
> 
> Also, I’ve done a bunch of true wireless reviews at this point now so I might congregate them somewhere, like on a website, if people would be interested. Might also do a top ten list here soon.



Yeah couldn't agree more.


----------



## Spidermanxd (Apr 26, 2020)

voicemaster said:


> Yeah couldn't agree more.


If you guys think the n6 pro sound good, need to try mavin air xr, these little buds sound great, very similar to n6, but has sparkle high compared to n6, i have both and keep reaching for the mavin more


----------



## assassin10000

Spidermanxd said:


> If you guys think the n6 pro sound good, need to try mavin air xr, these little buds sound great, very similar to n6, but has sparkle high compared to n6, i have both and keep reaching for the mavin more



Hmmmmmmmm. N6 pro was on my list to try (in the future) but now...

I do go for the Air-XR over the L2P's, which are good once EQ'ed.


----------



## howdy

I keep reading that these Tevis are great sounding with a wide sound stage, I think while I still have them I will try and mess with them some more.


----------



## cresny

tma6 said:


> Conclusion: Overall, the xm3s are some of my favorite TWS that Ive used so far. The sound is really nice and balanced, and it’s probably the most versatile set of TWS I own. Plays every genre I throw at it at least reasonably well. Also the ANC is really great. Once you get a good seal, they’re just better than any other ANC bud I’ve tried - including the APP, MW07+, MTW2s, and Ausounds Hybrid. Really great features and very good sound make this a top choice for me, though I know some on this thread are not as high on them as I am. Sound is definitely subjective and these are my opinions, absolutely not saying that anyone else is wrong, just going off what my ears are telling me.


Great write-up, I agree with everything you said. I guess there are probably better sounding buds, bud I needed ANC, Ambient Sound and good teleconferencing and I dd not want to spend very much, given that all that will probably be the standard feature set soon. I got mine refurbished for $100 plus another $10 for some spinfits.


----------



## go0gle

StIwY said:


> On these days i'm trying the Soundcore Liberty 2 Pro ( aka L2P), they are surprisingly good. Arrived, kept on charge, upgraded firmware, did a factory reset then i started to use them since a week now. I don't mess with the EQ, i'm talking about sound out-of-the-box)
> 
> The case is meh, this "slide" opening seems unreliable especially if you keep them in the pants pocket, but the fit, confort and the soundstage are really good. Tons of adapters too on bundle, which is a plus.
> 
> ...



Does the MTW v2 sound $200 better than the soundcore ?


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

bronco1015 said:


> I burned my Amazon credit on a 2nd pair of the Backbeat pro 5100. I needed great call quality, and i knew from having a pair last Fall that these had been the best for that out of all the models i've tried. These weren't worth the full MSRP then, and they definitely aren't now, but for free thanks to a gift card i won at work, i'd say they're worth it haha. Some others i have aren't bad for calls, but these take the cake. just wish i could eq the sound a bit for music, but for some rock, metal, hipHop and some electronic they do well.
> *i've been going back and forth on keeping the MTW2, is a slight reduction in SQ preference vs the 1st gen MTW worth keeping them for their better battery life, slightly better fit and ANC? IN the end for me, it is*. yeah there are going to be some new models with ANC thanks to the new QC chips they'll arrive with, but will i like the over all sound of any of them as much as i like the MTW2? Who knows. i'd say if you don't have a use case for ANC, then among many others, the 1st gen MTW at less than $200 wouldn't be a bad way to go. That's not to say i don't like the 2nd gen's SQ, i just wish i could add a little mor pop to snares etc. and bring the mids down juuust a touch.
> at TMA6  how are you liking the XM3's?



Thanks for the MTW 1 vs 2 thoughts - I also like the MTW. For me sound quality is the #1 priority, with battery life #2, transparency #3, and ANC #4. So I've been pretty happy with the MTW, and just posted a review the other day Momentum True Wireless Review because I do think their sound + transparency mode and in-app EQ for $199 is pretty good.

But, I do wish they had better battery life - I have two pairs of MTW and keep one charged up all the time, so if the MTW charging case that I have in my pocket drains down to zero then I have one to fall back to. l have one MTW that automatically connects to my iPhone when I take them out of the case for a call. The spare set automatically connects to my MacBook when I put them in my ears, and I keep that pair plugged into my MacBook USB to stay charged up.

I was thinking about MTW2 for the extra battery life and ANC, but not at the expense of sound quality. Therefore, I am also considering the N6 Pro or Sony 1000XM3. So, I am interested to read all of the XM3 reviews now - I'm not sure their transparency mode and ANC are as important as the N6 Pro's improved sound, but I do like to be able to use my buds when I am outside walking the dog and need to hear ambient noise.


----------



## assassin10000

@Spidermanxd I don't know if you like foam tips (I prefer them) but if you do there are a few that I found that work with the Air-XR.

My favorite on them is the 'ball style' 6.5mm TS400 ones. With this setup I don't even press them into my ear, just position it to cover/seal the ear opening. I use it with a 5mm I.D. x 1.5mm thick o-ring as a spacer. The foam seats against my tragus and ear opening, while pushing the ear piece far enough back to contact the anti helix. Super comfortable and pretty stable.







The other option is these: 


assassin10000 said:


> With the delay on getting those foam tips I started poking around Amazon & eBay. I ended up coming across more large bore foam tips, listed for Jaybird BT earphones. They have a 5.4mm bore and are listed to fit 5.5-7.0mm diameter earphones. They fit on my 7.15mm Mavin Air-XR with no problem (with effort I managed to fit a 4.9mm bore T400, but high chance of damaging them).
> 
> https://smile.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B0763J99H4/
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/6-pair-Jay...-jaybird-freedom-2-ear-tips-foam/263638958081
> ...


----------



## bronco1015

mentega said:


> what are your eq settings in the mtw2?


still fine tuning it, but at the moment, from center, a half inch down and all the way to the right. That's what i keep coming back to.


----------



## Spidermanxd

assassin10000 said:


> @Spidermanxd I don't know if you like foam tips (I prefer them) but if you do there are a few that I found that work with the Air-XR.
> 
> My favorite on them is the 'ball style' 6.5mm TS400 ones. With this setup I don't even press them into my ear, just position it to cover/seal the ear opening. I use it with a 5mm I.D. x 1.5mm thick o-ring as a spacer. The foam seats against my tragus and ear opening, while pushing the ear piece far enough back to contact the anti helix. Super comfortable and pretty stable.
> 
> ...


Thanks I will give it a try


----------



## bronco1015

tma6 said:


> Hey man, yeah I’ve been swamped with work so haven’t had the time to churn out a full review, but had a little time today so here goes:
> 
> I know a bunch of people on here don’t love the sq of the xm3s, and after about a week and a half of listening I agree they are not perfect, but to my ears they’re probably my second favorite sounding TWS outside of the N6 Pros right now. I’ll get into it in some detail, for me the timbre is pretty great, much better than expected. The overall usability is also excellent, and for some reason they fit my ears real nicely, though I know this is not the case for everyone so your mileage may vary. Anyway here’s my breakdown.
> 
> ...


( Glad you are enjoying them. i do like the eq in the sony app a lot actually. While i don't prefer them to other models, i'm likely to give the next gen version a shot, especially if they have ldac. I've recently become a fan of it with the Shure Aonic 50 over ears. You should give the reviews on your own website a shot. IMO it can be  an evolving challenge to give an impression of a product and want to give as much details as possible and speak to the characteristics of a product and balance that out with your impressions/opinions, but that's part of the fun of doing any kind of review and partisipating on forums. FWIW, i think you do that pretty well.


----------



## bronco1015

howdy said:


> I keep reading that these Tevis are great sounding with a wide sound stage, I think while I still have them I will try and mess with them some more.


Have you given the N6Pros a listen? I haven't heard the revision on the Tevis, but i felt the first gen wasn't worth the $90 i payed for them. i liked them a lot mor than the mpow t5, but didn't feel the quality was worth double the price. maybe $15 better. The N6Pro just might hit a sweet spot between the SQ of the XM3 and MTW for you.


----------



## bronco1015

HeadphoneAddict said:


> Thanks for the MTW 1 vs 2 thoughts - I also like the MTW. For me sound quality is the #1 priority, with battery life #2, transparency #3, and ANC #4. So I've been pretty happy with the MTW, and just posted a review the other day Momentum True Wireless Review because I do think their sound + transparency mode and in-app EQ for $199 is pretty good.
> 
> But, I do wish they had better battery life - I have two pairs of MTW and keep one charged up all the time, so if the MTW charging case that I have in my pocket drains down to zero then I have one to fall back to. l have one MTW that automatically connects to my iPhone when I take them out of the case for a call. The spare set automatically connects to my MacBook when I put them in my ears, and I keep that pair plugged into my MacBook USB to stay charged up.
> 
> I was thinking about MTW2 for the extra battery life and ANC, but not at the expense of sound quality. Therefore, I am also considering the N6 Pro or Sony 1000XM3. So, I am interested to read all of the XM3 reviews now - I'm not sure their transparency mode and ANC are as important as the N6 Pro's improved sound, but I do like to be able to use my buds when I am outside walking the dog and need to hear ambient noise.


Since you mentioned SQ as you're top priority, i'd go with the N6Pros. Both they and the XM3 can be used individually, but since ANC and Transparency are down on you're list, another nice feature about the N6 Pro is that each iem has all the controls on it when used in mono. center button for play-pause, answering ending and rejecting calls plus assistent if that's something you ever use. holding volume up till it beeps rewinds, holding volume down goes to next track. you increase and decrease volume by just pressing the buttons till you have your volume level you want. also, battery life is better on n6pro as well.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict (Apr 27, 2020)

bronco1015 said:


> Since you mentioned SQ as you're top priority, i'd go with the N6Pros. Both they and the XM3 can be used individually, but since ANC and Transparency are down on you're list, another nice feature about the N6 Pro is that each iem has all the controls on it when used in mono. center button for play-pause, answering ending and rejecting calls plus assistent if that's something you ever use. holding volume up till it beeps rewinds, holding volume down goes to next track. you increase and decrease volume by just pressing the buttons till you have your volume level you want. also, battery life is better on n6pro as well.



Thanks! The fully independent earbuds with full controls and long battery life definitely a plus.

1) Just how close is the sound quality of the N6Pro vs my MTW or the newer MTW2?

2) Do you think I would miss the transparency or ambient sound mode of my MTW, or is the N6Pro's sound so much better that it won't matter?

Maybe I could carry both, and use my current MTW when I need transparency and use the N6Pro at times when I don't? I'd use my APP for transparency mode but they don't stay in my ears with medium or large tips, and their tips are more itchy than the MTW. It would be nice to have one that does everything, but I could see myself maybe using the N6P when I don't want to be tied down by wires while watching a movie on my iPhone on the couch/bed, while I could still use the MTW when walking the dog and needing to hear cars approaching or honking.

When I'm not laying down, and can have a cable run between the two ear pieces, I often use my Westone W60 or W80 with the Westone BT V2 cable; but a cable is a cable, and when I'm laying on the couch or in bed sometimes with the wire running behind my neck it will tug on the earbuds and pull them out when I shift my head position. I don't like the wires in the front and resting on my throat.

PS: I won't sell the APP because the one time where they work well for me is when I'm just sitting and not moving around and just watching stuff on my laptop in the same room as my wife, where she sometimes  wants to talk and the transparency mode is better than anything else I have tried, so I can hear her and pause to talk with her. No more having the wife wave her arms frantically or throwing stuff at me to get my attention.


----------



## eiraku (Apr 27, 2020)

Talking about ambient/transparency mode, supposedly one is coming in the future for the L2P (with no real timeframe, however). Hopefully it comes sooner rather than later though.

Might just be the thing to keep my mind off the niggling fact that my OOS 10.3.2 OP6 simply isn't doing TWS+ with the Liberties, no matter how I pair them (or tweak the ROM)... *when the Outlier Air is doing so rather effortlessly *with the *same* phone.

Despite supposedly being built on the same Qual chipset.

I still reach for the L2P more nonetheless, but this little niggle is making me itch for the Nuarls (or the 1More ANC) more and more lately lol.

Getting ambi mode might just help lessen the itch... by a bit.


----------



## tma6

bronco1015 said:


> ( Glad you are enjoying them. i do like the eq in the sony app a lot actually. While i don't prefer them to other models, i'm likely to give the next gen version a shot, especially if they have ldac. I've recently become a fan of it with the Shure Aonic 50 over ears. You should give the reviews on your own website a shot. IMO it can be  an evolving challenge to give an impression of a product and want to give as much details as possible and speak to the characteristics of a product and balance that out with your impressions/opinions, but that's part of the fun of doing any kind of review and partisipating on forums. FWIW, i think you do that pretty well.



Thank you for your feedback man. I definitely have enjoyed doing these mini reviews on here and I’m trying to improve a little with each one. The only impediment to continuing to write them is time and money at this point so we’ll see if I get organized enough to do something more with it. Appreciate you reading them and looking forward to seeing if anything coming out soon will surpass the N6Ps


----------



## GregBe

eiraku said:


> Talking about ambient/transparency mode, supposedly one is coming in the future for the L2P (with no real timeframe, however). Hopefully it comes sooner rather than later though.
> 
> Getting ambi mode might just help lessen the itch... by a bit.



This would be great.  Where did you hear that.  I was debating returning my L2Ps even though I like them because I am really feeling like ambient mode passthrough is a must have feature for me.


----------



## Odioer

thimantha said:


> I'm in the same boat. I've stopped looking for other TWSs'. I'm awaiting the new wave of buds which will come with the new line of QC chipsets with ANC, and see how the products improve from there onwards. Until then, I'm really satisfied with my GT1 Plus.


I am in the same boat, haven't picked up my other sets. They are great for podcasts too, perfect distance from the voices, feels as if you are sitting in a room having a conversation with them personally.

Earlier I used to switch to blons for music, but the convenience haylous offer & the noise free detailed balanced sound has grown on me and make them me think less about choosing a set. Its always haylou by default now.

For me a product achieving 'set it and forget it' is a true winner. Great ergonomic & auditory comfort paired with natural sound and convenience are what makes them perfect.

And even finding the satisfaction with not checking headfi obsessively daily was a sign too.


----------



## X-Nemesis

Are there any other low profile tips for the Fiil T1X's that anyone here is using?


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

BigZ12 said:


> Ok... Airpods Pro owners, you have to hear this:
> 
> I bought my APPs 17th of Nov, delivered with 2B576. Almost instantly updated to 2B584, then 2B588 a little later.
> In Desember I got the 2C54 update. Almost 4 months ago. This firmware got pulled just a couple of days after. Since that, no info or new update.
> ...



I too am disappointed with the 2C54 update, especially with the sound being poor if you have ANC or Transparency off. Maybe I should bring them back when the stores open.


----------



## eiraku (Apr 27, 2020)

GregBe said:


> This would be great.  Where did you hear that.  I was debating returning my L2Ps even though I like them because I am really feeling like ambient mode passthrough is a must have feature for me.



Was discussed up in the Soundcore forums a while back. Apparently the team is "having trouble" making it work, but eyy, the L2P isn't half bad even without ambient mode so at the very least I'll be keeping it around in the daily driver rotation.

Though if it *does* end up working, it'll be a helluva value add.

Anyways, we've sure come a loooong way in such a short time. I still remember the Zolo Liberties coming out and thinking "meh, not there yet"... and that's only a bit more than 2 years ago.

Can't wait for the next gen stuff to hit, tho yeah... it being COVID season and all... stuff might take it's sweet time trickling in.


----------



## Spidermanxd




----------



## asak

Got 2 japan specials, the new Technics EAH-AZ70w and Yamaha TW-E3A. Very surprised by the Yamaha, natural sound and warm, but not too warm. One earpiece has to be the master, it can be either, but you can't use the slave without the master. The Technics is neutral with a very deep soundstage. Sound is also clear yet smooth. App has a 5 band eq. One thing I like about both of these is you can use a lot of standard eartips with both of the cases. Don't need the super shallow ones.


----------



## thimantha

Pixel Buds TWS are here!


----------



## eiraku (Apr 27, 2020)

thimantha said:


> Pixel Buds TWS are here!



Apparently Android Police gets... *gasp*... some *hiss* static with these lol.

Also battery life seems meh and apparently BT connection isn't all that stable (listen to MrM say it cuts out with phone in the back pocket). To be fair, while my L2P is *rock solid *(Anker/SC must have tuned them for connection stability or something), I do get "body-block" connection fade-outs with the Outliers (if I scrunch down or do anything that increases my body profile depth) so it's not entirely unexpected.

I'll also say no AptX (not Qualcomm based) but I've been less of a codec fanatic these days with the Fiil T1X being seemingly so good even without... so eyyy... no comment there.

But of course, it's not all bad. Voice calls supposedly sound stellar. Something that needs to be taken into consideration for the "next gen" TWS stuff TBH (current crop isn't really up to snuff to me except for maybe the Airpods Pro). Also, super deep Assistant intergration is pretty interesting.

I do love how compact the case is and how it still manages to cram Qi in anyways. That's a major win in my book as wireless charging suuuuuch a convenient thing to have in a TWS case.

All in all, a good first try in the TWS space really (not counting the 2017 ones coz those aren't TWS)... at least from a spec/features perspective.

I'll leave SQ impressions to people who *can* get their hands on them (not in the States unfortunately and Googs usually skips my locale for official Pixel stuff).


----------



## Sam L

tma6 said:


> Hey man, yeah I’ve been swamped with work so haven’t had the time to churn out a full review, but had a little time today so here goes:
> 
> I know a bunch of people on here don’t love the sq of the xm3s, and after about a week and a half of listening I agree they are not perfect, but to my ears they’re probably my second favorite sounding TWS outside of the N6 Pros right now. I’ll get into it in some detail, for me the timbre is pretty great, much better than expected. The overall usability is also excellent, and for some reason they fit my ears real nicely, though I know this is not the case for everyone so your mileage may vary. Anyway here’s my breakdown.
> 
> ...



Excellent review. I fully agree re: the eq in the Sony app, excellent feature, well implemented. 

I am a huge fan of the Sony house sound and regularly use the xm3 (both earphone and headphones) along with the xba a3. I find all these models eq really well.


----------



## Sam L

X-Nemesis said:


> Are there any other low profile tips for the Fiil T1X's that anyone here is using?



My fiil's actually have enough room in their case to use regular tips (some random ones I picked up on aliexpress that loosely resemble spiral dots.)


----------



## DigDub

The original galaxy buds have a new firmware update which adds ambient sound and Spotify integration.


----------



## HAMS

kz s1d. The first TWS that actually fit me I love the looks too. Sounds meh for the price, horrible for my taste. Using parametric Eq it sound great now. Good pair for exercising.


----------



## Spidermanxd

thimantha said:


> Pixel Buds TWS are here!



2020 and only 5 hours per used, equal crap


----------



## FYLegend

DigDub said:


> The original galaxy buds have a new firmware update which adds ambient sound and Spotify integration.


They also updated the Buds+ - seems like the bass is deaper and the treble/upper mids is less peaky. Unfortunately there's still no change to SBC quality and the buds no longer show battery levels for each individual bud.


----------



## DigDub

FYLegend said:


> They also updated the Buds+ - seems like the bass is deaper and the treble/upper mids is less peaky. Unfortunately there's still no change to SBC quality and the buds no longer show battery levels for each individual bud.


I also updated the buds plus to the latest firmware. Yea, the battery life no longer shows for individual buds, but it still does for the original galaxy buds though. Weird. The sound for the buds+ has changed, but I still find it too peaky and splashy in the highs. I prefer the more neutral sound of the original galaxy buds.


----------



## Ocelitgol

FYLegend said:


> They also updated the Buds+ - seems like the bass is deaper and the treble/upper mids is less peaky. Unfortunately there's still no change to SBC quality and the buds no longer show battery levels for each individual bud.





DigDub said:


> I also updated the buds plus to the latest firmware. Yea, the battery life no longer shows for individual buds, but it still does for the original galaxy buds though. Weird. The sound for the buds+ has changed, but I still find it too peaky and splashy in the highs. I prefer the more neutral sound of the original galaxy buds.



Do you guys use any EQ (from the Wearable app or Samsung EQ) for your Buds+?


----------



## DigDub

Ocelitgol said:


> Do you guys use any EQ (from the Wearable app or Samsung EQ) for your Buds+?


I use the Dynamic EQ in the wearable app. I tried EQing in both the wearable app and the phone EQ, but the highs were still splashy and jarring on my ears, especially cymbals sounds. I guess it could be due to the innovative square dual driver design by Samsung, it doesn't seem to be very tuneable.


----------



## FYLegend

DigDub said:


> I use the Dynamic EQ in the wearable app. I tried EQing in both the wearable app and the phone EQ, but the highs were still splashy and jarring on my ears, especially cymbals sounds. I guess it could be due to the innovative square dual driver design by Samsung, it doesn't seem to be very tuneable.


I use dynamic as well. I agree there's still a hot peak but I didn't mind the tuning before. The bass just seems more boomy now which I guess I need time to get used to. The case battery seems to not drain as it did before either. For SBC on Windows 10 it's a bit more pleasant, but the distortion is still there from the low bitrate.


Francesco Montanari said:


> Me.. and i received replacement 4 days ago with same problem... case cannot last more then 5 days using buds 1h per day.


You might want to check the latest update. I haven't used mine much but it seems to retain charge better now.


----------



## tskeng

Hello!

Need some advice.

Looking for a new set to replace my old b&o e8. Or at least complement them.

Will only be using for exercising (running, walks). At home or work i have other iems and headphones. I drive to work so won't need to drown out the noise from transport.

Hopefully able to sync and use with my samsung gear s3 watch where there is spotify streaming. Means best to have controls on the earbuds.

Considering something thats has warmer sound and works well with higher tempo or upbeat songs.

Looking at lypertek tevi, and nuarl n6 (or pro? Whats the diff?)

Dont mind sony xm3 or senn mtw2 if they are better suited for my usage scenario.

Hoping to get good advice from you folks. Thanks!


----------



## bronco1015

HeadphoneAddict said:


> Thanks! The fully independent earbuds with full controls and long battery life definitely a plus.
> 
> 1) Just how close is the sound quality of the N6Pro vs my MTW or the newer MTW2?
> 
> ...


I carry both at times and switch between the 2. Transparency mode on the 2 is amplified some, but it's leaps and bounds better than on gen1. AS far as sound between OG MTW and N6 Pro, both excell at separating instruments and helping everything stand out, i feel like mids are more refined on the MTW vs N6 Pro but neither of them are sloppy in that regard. Theres less sub bass on the N6P vs un eqed MTW. both dig deep for the lowest bass notes and bring out the realism in songs. The areas where these 2 differ the most imo, even though both do well in these aspects, is that the Senns are not only better at placing vocals properly in the mix, but they also just have a more natural sound to them. The N6p's stand out for how realistic drums and symbols sound. One example would be sidesticking. Sounds less synthetic on the N6P Again, not that the MTW has an obvious synthetic sound on drums, it's just mor finely tuned on the n6p.
AS far as N6p vs Senn MTW2, again without eq, since  you mentioned in you're review most the time you leave the MTW in default mode IIRC, less bass on mtw2 vs mtw1 and mor in line with N6P. mids are more forward on 2nd gen MTW vs 1st gen. Both 2nd gen MTW and N6P  can get a tad to loud in the mids when theres a lot going on, but the MTW2 keeps things separate a bit better than the N6P, but maybe not as good as MTW1. tuning for vocals on MTW2 still win vs N6P, and are right in line with MTW1, but N6P still win for more realistic sounding drums and symbols. pianos sound a little snappier on n6 pro, especially higher notes, but imo they sound mor full and both MTW's.


----------



## axhng

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000986724847.html






KZ Z1. Not much details other than it's a 1DD (probably a 10mm driver according to their previous teaser) setup. USD 34.


----------



## TYATYA

New commer suck!
Pairing simultanously both to Ss note8 finding gen 3 delay more than gen 2.
Bonus sh1t is anyy time turn on transparent mode, it gain current playing track to higher volume in 0.5s before activated transparent mode.
Damn B&O


----------



## Ocelitgol

DigDub said:


> I use the Dynamic EQ in the wearable app. I tried EQing in both the wearable app and the phone EQ, but the highs were still splashy and jarring on my ears, especially cymbals sounds. I guess it could be due to the innovative square dual driver design by Samsung, it doesn't seem to be very tuneable.



Does lowering 16K help?



FYLegend said:


> I use dynamic as well. I agree there's still a hot peak but I didn't mind the tuning before. The bass just seems more boomy now which I guess I need time to get used to. The case battery seems to not drain as it did before either. For SBC on Windows 10 it's a bit more pleasant, but the distortion is still there from the low bitrate.
> 
> You might want to check the latest update. I haven't used mine much but it seems to retain charge better now.


Personally, I left it as Normal and lowered 4k (I'd lowered 2.5K or 3K if I could) and raised 8K up. I feel like this makes it less congested and less shouty.
Dynamic mode is kinda fatiguing for me.


----------



## Luchyres

Spidermanxd said:


>



I'm dying to hear your impressions! Mainly, fit, sound quality, case size, and call quality - but anything you want to share would be appreciated!


----------



## Bobbetybob

Does anyone know of any tips that fit into the Soundpeats Truedot case? I have some Sony hybrids and spinfit CP100 which are both too big. I've cut down a pair of the CP100 for now but wondered if the CP360 would do the job?


----------



## HeadphoneAddict (Apr 28, 2020)

bronco1015 said:


> I carry both at times and switch between the 2. Transparency mode on the 2 is amplified some, but it's leaps and bounds better than on gen1. AS far as sound between OG MTW and N6 Pro, both excell at separating instruments and helping everything stand out, i feel like mids are more refined on the MTW vs N6 Pro but neither of them are sloppy in that regard. Theres less sub bass on the N6P vs un eqed MTW. both dig deep for the lowest bass notes and bring out the realism in songs. The areas where these 2 differ the most imo, even though both do well in these aspects, is that the Senns are not only better at placing vocals properly in the mix, but they also just have a more natural sound to them. The N6p's stand out for how realistic drums and symbols sound. One example would be sidesticking. Sounds less synthetic on the N6P Again, not that the MTW has an obvious synthetic sound on drums, it's just mor finely tuned on the n6p.
> AS far as N6p vs Senn MTW2, again without eq, since  you mentioned in you're review most the time you leave the MTW in default mode IIRC, less bass on mtw2 vs mtw1 and mor in line with N6P. mids are more forward on 2nd gen MTW vs 1st gen. Both 2nd gen MTW and N6P  can get a tad to loud in the mids when theres a lot going on, but the MTW2 keeps things separate a bit better than the N6P, but maybe not as good as MTW1. tuning for vocals on MTW2 still win vs N6P, and are right in line with MTW1, but N6P still win for more realistic sounding drums and symbols. pianos sound a little snappier on n6 pro, especially higher notes, but imo they sound mor full and both MTW's.



Thanks! So, it sounds like the neither the MTW2 nor the N6P could completely replace the original MTW, which does some things very well.

But, if someone could have both the original MTW + N6P, or both the original MTW + MTW2, or both the MTW2 + N6P, which combo do you think would be better?

And, would that answer change for someone who already has the MTW in hand?


----------



## IEManiac

I am actually quite happy with my L2P. But is there anything out there that will sound, not marginally but rather significantly better, a clear and unquestionable improvement in sound?


----------



## howdy

Got the Spinfit 360s in today from Amazon. Put these on the Tevis and wow did that make a difference! These sound great and boy do they get loud! So, needless to say, I will be adding these to my collection. 
No, they do not beat my Sonys or Sennheisers, but they are really top notch.


----------



## Darkestred

IEManiac said:


> I am actually quite happy with my L2P. But is there anything out there that will sound, not marginally but rather significantly better, a clear and unquestionable improvement in sound?



I enjoy mine, as well. I don't think you're going to find anything significantly better than the L2P. If you do as you mentioned its only going to be marginal.


----------



## DigDub

Ocelitgol said:


> Does lowering 16K help?
> 
> 
> Personally, I left it as Normal and lowered 4k (I'd lowered 2.5K or 3K if I could) and raised 8K up. I feel like this makes it less congested and less shouty.
> Dynamic mode is kinda fatiguing for me.


I tried to adjust the frequency in that range but could quite tame the peaky highs without making the overall sound weird.


----------



## DigDub

Bobbetybob said:


> Does anyone know of any tips that fit into the Soundpeats Truedot case? I have some Sony hybrids and spinfit CP100 which are both too big. I've cut down a pair of the CP100 for now but wondered if the CP360 would do the job?


I've got the truedots, with the cp360 on, the buds cannot charge.


----------



## bronco1015

HeadphoneAddict said:


> Thanks! So, it sounds like the neither the MTW2 nor the N6P could completely replace the original MTW, which does some things very well.
> 
> But, if someone could have both the original MTW + N6P, or both the original MTW + MTW2, or both the MTW2 + N6P, which combo do you think would be better?
> 
> And, would that answer change for someone who already has the MTW in hand?


since you own the MTW, i'd get the N6P to have something which is very comparable but has different strengths. If you didn't own any of the 3 i'd say get mtw2 and N6P. reasons would be ANC, better transparency, longer battery life, no battery drain which is common on most 1st gen MTW's it seems plus slightly smaller iems, then get the n6P for the slight difference in sound, ability to use in mono, a pair with full controls on each iem, and an even longer battery life than either of the momentums. Plus they're a lot cheaper, and while it sounds like some of these other features especially transparency would be a nice plus for you, i make these recomendations not just based on getting the most potentially for your money, but also with SQ as top priority.


----------



## axhng

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000986724847.html
hmm... 2 hours of rated use...


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

bronco1015 said:


> since you own the MTW, i'd get the N6P to have something which is very comparable but has different strengths. If you didn't own any of the 3 i'd say get mtw2 and N6P. reasons would be ANC, better transparency, longer battery life, no battery drain which is common on most 1st gen MTW's it seems plus slightly smaller iems, then get the n6P for the slight difference in sound, ability to use in mono, a pair with full controls on each iem, and an even longer battery life than either of the momentums. Plus they're a lot cheaper, and while it sounds like some of these other features especially transparency would be a nice plus for you, i make these recomendations not just based on getting the most potentially for your money, but also with SQ as top priority.



It's nice that you came to the same conclusion as me. The N6P will be here Thursday, since I already have the original MTW. 

If the MTW2 were a similar price I might have swung for them, but I was worried about the changes in the tonal balance that I've read about in the MTW2. Spending $299 without hearing them first made me nervous. I tend to only buy what I like and then do a review on it, hence so few negative reviews out the hundred or more that I've done.

When I first got my MTW at Rocky Mountain Audio Fest last year, it was a show-price package deal for the MTW demo's on the last day along with some HD800s for $1500. I thought that $299 on their own would have been a lot of cash for some BT earbuds when I already have Westone W60 and W80 on a BT V2 cable. But, there was something about the MTW sound that sucked me in. With being totally wireless, at the time I thought they had ANC like the Momentum 3, so with such a great deal I jumped. I do believe that at some point I will own the MTW2, when the price is right.

From what I was reading here it seemed to me that the MTW2 would not have the bass of the MTW without EQ. So I thought why not go for the N6P that are reported to have better clarity and definition, to compliment the MTW. Using full-size headphones as an example, the MTW would be like keeping my Sennheiser HD650, and the N6P would be like adding an HD800s.

I do really like the MTW, other than having to leave them plugged in to keep the battery topped off until I'm ready to use them. I like the overall sonic balance, energy, and open or spacious soundstage, but I often miss the fine details of my wired IEM. I'm not sure that I like the MTW with AptX on my MacBook more than via AAC on iPhone though - both are good. Tonight I tested them out with some Martin Garrix/Duo Lipa, Zara Larssen, Camilla Cabello, Bebe Rexha, as well as some electronica from Infected Mushroom and Nigel Good, and they are a really hoppin (PRaT) totally wireless IEM with good bass. But, I can listen to Jack Johnson "In Between Dreams" or Chris Jones "Roadhouses and Automobiles" and be just as impressed with the crisp acoustic guitars and vocals.


----------



## voicemaster

Digging through old iem, came across my old JVC fx1100 paired it with TRN bt20s.  I am in love again.


----------



## Sandbox2

Spidermanxd said:


> 2020 and only 5 hours per used, equal crap


Are the Jabra Elite 75t's better than these?


----------



## voicemaster

Sandbox2 said:


> Are the Jabra Elite 75t's better than these?



Don't think the pixel buds 2 is released yet to the public.


----------



## martiniCZ

Bobbetybob said:


> Does anyone know of any tips that fit into the Soundpeats Truedot case? I have some Sony hybrids and spinfit CP100 which are both too big. I've cut down a pair of the CP100 for now but wondered if the CP360 would do the job?


I don't have CP360, but what I see on the pistures, they are still have pretty long center tube for truedot case. But for examle Poyatu makes silicon tips for xiaomi airdots, which may be good for truedot also. Unfortunately, they probably won't be better than stock tips. https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000843480291.html?spm=a2g0o.cart.0.0.692f3c002XtePf&mp=1
I ordered foam tips for test, but they are still on the way, so I can't confirm that they will fit in the case (it's cheaper version of Misidiko TWS-PRO) https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000482792147.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.61924c4dNHwoMB 
I cut tubes on some tips too, right now i use shortened TRN stock tips from some IEM's and i am happy with them.


----------



## Bobbetybob (Apr 29, 2020)

DigDub said:


> I've got the truedots, with the cp360 on, the buds cannot charge.


Damn, that's a shame thanks for checking. Guess I'll stick with the original tips and my bodge job on the CP100 for now.



martiniCZ said:


> I don't have CP360, but what I see on the pistures, they are still have pretty long center tube for truedot case. But for examle Poyatu makes silicon tips for xiaomi airdots, which may be good for truedot also. Unfortunately, they probably won't be better than stock tips. https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000843480291.html?spm=a2g0o.cart.0.0.692f3c002XtePf&mp=1
> I ordered foam tips for test, but they are still on the way, so I can't confirm that they will fit in the case (it's cheaper version of Misidiko TWS-PRO) https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000482792147.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.61924c4dNHwoMB
> I cut tubes on some tips too, right now i use shortened TRN stock tips from some IEM's and i am happy with them.


Thanks for the info and links, let me know how you get on with the foams I'm after a pair of those eventually as well. 

I'm hoping they do another pair similar to the truedots soon with a slightly resigned charging case, I have the Truefree+ too and I can put any buds on them but they don't sound as nice, the button controls are horrible to use and the case is pretty bulky. Maybe we'll get an upgraded version of them soon.


----------



## tma6

Btw if anyone looking for a fantastic wired iem that doesn’t break the bank the Thieaudio Legacy 3s are absolutely phenomenal for the price. That’s all Ill say here but going to write a review of them on the L3 head fi thread.


----------



## eiraku (Apr 29, 2020)

IEManiac said:


> I am actually quite happy with my L2P. But is there anything out there that will sound, not marginally but rather significantly better, a clear and unquestionable improvement in sound?



Possibly the Nuarl N6P. But even than the jump up might not be *that* large... and you *will* lose some nice L2P comforts in the process (EQ, wireless charging).

Similar feature set with different sound sig? Maybe the 1More ANC... but that's more a *sidegrade* than a true upgrade. Also the Play Store is filled with reviews on how broken the app is for it (vs the Soundcore app that "just works").

Hence my reluctance to splash out any cash at this point... The L2P is simply "good enough" that I can't _properly_ justify any other purchases.

Well, at least until the true "next gen" stuff arrives anyway. Hopefully they'll bring along some nice upgrades (SQ and feature-wise).



Spoiler



OFC, there's also the T1X or the Edifier NB, but those all have compromises to them I'm not entirely happy to accept lol.

If I DO find an English prompt T1X unit at a good price, I might just cave though, just to see how good is it really.

Oh, there's also the option of the BT20S + "proper" IEMs... but you'll pay dearly in terms of TWS comforts for that increase in SQ potential (no charging case, size increase, lesser battery life, no IP rating).

Finally, if you have deep fat pockets, there's always the Shure True Wireless Adapter (MMCX), more or less the "perfected" version of the BT20S concept IMO. Comes with a charging case and everything too.


----------



## AudioNoob

Has recent updates addressed the embarrassment of Xm3 mics only working for calls and not on WhatsApp and other third party call/recording apps? Sony used to say they are only compatible with incoming direct calls!?..


----------



## assassin10000 (Apr 29, 2020)

AudioNoob said:


> Has recent updates addressed the embarrassment of Xm3 mics only working for calls and not on WhatsApp and other third party call/recording apps? Sony used to say they are only compatible with incoming direct calls!?..



Just tried Google's recorder app with my XM3 on 2.3.0 (since I was already wearing them). Didn't record from them from what I can tell. When I walked away from my phone my voice faded.

As far as third party calling I can't say. I don't use whatsapp or anything.


----------



## AudioNoob

assassin10000 said:


> Just tried Google's recorder app with my XM3 (since I was already wearing them). Didn't record from them from what I can tell. When I walked away from my phone my voice faded.
> 
> As far as third party calling I can't say. I don't use whatsapp or anything.


That answers it. So bizarre That they didn’t implement it as a regular audio input. That nixes it for me.


----------



## assassin10000 (Apr 29, 2020)

AudioNoob said:


> That answers it. So bizarre That they didn’t implement it as a regular audio input. That nixes it for me.



Could be an issue with the noise cancelling. Probably why NC doesn't work during calls.

Fyi I tested with NC/Ambient off.


You could check this thread and see if these guys know about 3rd party calling:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/off...se-cancelling-true-wireless-earphones.911305/


Edit, more info

Used with skype:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/off...reless-earphones.911305/page-33#post-15214363

Used with whatsapp:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/off...reless-earphones.911305/page-62#post-15499677


----------



## thrgk

Hi,

Does anyone have recommendations for wireless buds with good call quality? I have these now but they don't fit well. I did have the Anbes 359 before and liked them. https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B082G2RKSV?psc=1&ref=ppx_pop_mob_b_asin_title


----------



## AudioNoob

assassin10000 said:


> Could be an issue with the noise cancelling. Probably why NC doesn't work during calls.
> 
> Fyi I tested with NC/Ambient off.
> 
> ...


Thank you, I asked over there as well.


----------



## d3myz

AudioNoob said:


> Has recent updates addressed the embarrassment of Xm3 mics only working for calls and not on WhatsApp and other third party call/recording apps? Sony used to say they are only compatible with incoming direct calls!?..



I can't speak to WhatsApp, but I use my XM3's  for Zoom daily and they are fantastic.


----------



## d3myz

I received the new Deep Bass version of the Tranya Rimor on Sunday.
Disclosure: These were sent to me by Ida@Tranya to demo, without any agreement to review them just to send her my feedback. I'm not sure why she keeps sending earbuds when they come out, but she does, so Thanks Tranya.  For reference, I owned the previous hi-fi 10mm version back in Nov. and was not a fan of the boosted mid sound and narrow sound stage.

This new version is supposedly 8mm, even though the box says 10mm. I confirmed with Ida at Tranya that due to the virus they haven't been able to update the boxes and there is now only one version of the Rimor amazon is selling. Even if you choose Hi-Fi, you are getting the Deep Bass version. I have my doubts about that, due to the website only advertising the 10mm version Hi-Fi etc. i'll take their word for it.

Firstly, it has USB-C, my older version had micro-usb, so this is a welcome upgrade. Same nice compact case and great fit. Sound quality is improved, same great responsiveness as the previous version and the tuning sounds better, but I wouldn't say by much. 

The Bass is full and responsive but not overbearing, mids are solid, highs are fine, but they lack sparkle, however at louder volumes I found I really liked listening to these. They def have warmer sound than the B530 plus and a lot more bass, overall the sound is pretty good and the longer I listened to them, the better they sounded. When I switched to the FIIL, B530, I found I really prefered the wider soundstage and more defined highs. The soundstage is def. more narrow than the B530 and not as detailed as the T1X.

Ok, last but not least, The mics pretty much suck. I can't even get a solid dictation to my iphone and I think that has to do with the placement being so far up on the bud. The real deal breaker is the connectivity issues. I literally have to reconnect the buds manually to my Iphone each time I want to use them and there is horrible driver flex in both buds. It's really, really bad. It's so bad on the left bud, in fact, that after insertion I have to wiggle the bud in and out to get the driver to pop back in to place so it will even produce audio. Tranya hinted that they may have had some QA issues do the production during the virus, so they are sending me another pair.


In Conclusion, These are a clearly defective pair so it's not really a fair assessment, but I'd def. like to have a wider soundstage and better highs. However for a warm TWS with a more narrow soundstage, these sound really good. If they can get the driver flex and the connectivity issues worked out, which I think both may be a QA issue, I think these would be a great pair for $35-40, certainly not $80.


----------



## d3myz

thrgk said:


> Hi,
> 
> Does anyone have recommendations for wireless buds with good call quality? I have these now but they don't fit well. I did have the Anbes 359 before and liked them. https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B082G2RKSV?psc=1&ref=ppx_pop_mob_b_asin_title


The Airpods/Airpods Pro and the Sony 1000-XM3's are the best i've heard. I've been told the XM3's sound better.


----------



## AudioNoob

d3myz said:


> I can't speak to WhatsApp, but I use my XM3's  for Zoom daily and they are fantastic.


Did you try walking and facing away from your phone to test the xm mic? It might simply be your phone microphone picking up your voice well. Many realized it after trying to talk with their phones in their pockets


----------



## d3myz

AudioNoob said:


> Did you try walking and facing away from your phone to test the xm mic? It might simply be your phone microphone picking up your voice well. Many realized it after trying to talk with their phones in their pockets


I use them with my PC. I haven't tested it with my phone, sorry if I missed the context.


----------



## AudioNoob

d3myz said:


> I use them with my PC. I haven't tested it with my phone, sorry if I missed the context.


I don't know what the situation is with pc, the APIs are very different.if its a laptop it would still have a mic that could pick up the sound.


----------



## TheLionelHutz

thrgk said:


> Hi,
> 
> Does anyone have recommendations for wireless buds with good call quality? I have these now but they don't fit well. I did have the Anbes 359 before and liked them. https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B082G2RKSV?psc=1&ref=ppx_pop_mob_b_asin_title


I use the Anker Soundcore Life P2 exclusively for calls.  Lollipop design, but excellent.  My Advanced Sound Model X+ also have really great call quality despite being in-ear. They pick up more ambient noise, though.  (Yes, I test mic quality on everything; yes, it involves multiple phones, different buds in each ear at the same time, and talking to myself).


----------



## raymanh

Hi everyone, first post here. I'm looking for my first set of TWEs. I want something mainly small, sweat proof and with an ambient sound mode. ANC and wireless charging would be a plus. Price is a factor, I'd like to spend as little as possible.

So far considered Sony WF 1000XM3, MW07 Plus, Galaxy Buds Plus, Jabra Elite 75t and Sennheiser MTW.

I tried these buds out in stores over the last few days. The Sonys sounded the best to me, but they have a large case and to me the ANC isn't worth it for this. The MTW sound great, but I hear there is still unfixed issues with battery drainage. I was slightly disappointed by the MW07 Plus after reading so much about them online. I thought the Sony's sounded much better. Additionally they really didn't fit me well. The Galaxy Buds Plus sounded very good but quite bland. The EQ in the app didn't do much to help. But it's small, cheap and has wireless charging. It's also consistently ranked as one of the best on websites like soundguys, rtings and crinacle. The Jabras sounded great, bass heavy but it has an app with EQ.

Just remember ed that in the last store I tried a set of Nuarl N6 Pros. Sounded incredible. Better than the Sony's and the MTWs IMO. Unfortunately no ambient sound pass through.

After these tests I've narrowed it down to the Buds Plus and the 75t. I'd like your opinions please. Is there an issue with master slave BT in the 75t? IIRC the Buds Plus both connect to the source device via BT. As I said the Buds Plus get rated very highly on those sites I mentioned, while the 75t is not as good. Except for one site, audiobacon, where the 75t is ranked no.4 while the Buds Plus are no. 16. 

I'm wondering if the bass heavy and mids lacking 75t can be corrected through the in app EQ with out any side effects like distortion.

Thanks


----------



## eiraku (Apr 29, 2020)

raymanh said:


> Hi everyone, first post here. I'm looking for my first set of TWEs. I want something mainly small, sweat proof and with an ambient sound mode. ANC and wireless charging would be a plus. Price is a factor, I'd like to spend as little as possible.
> 
> So far considered Sony WF 1000XM3, MW07 Plus, Galaxy Buds Plus, Jabra Elite 75t and Sennheiser MTW.
> 
> ...



In the comments section of Wirecutter's TWS recommendations, there's a large number of folks reporting volume imbalance issues with the 75T (or something like that, can't fully remember). Not sure if it's an old issue that's already solved or something, but it's worth checking out.

And yeah, the Nuarls are pretty hyped around these parts. Unfortunate that there's no ambient passthrough, but my L2Ps don't have them either (at least not at this point, still praying that they manage to stuff it in later somehow though), so that's that.

BTW, if you're looking for ambient passthrough, there's also the 1More ANC you can look at. That one also has ambient mode baked in (and wireless charging, ANC and all that jazz). Supposedly ANC muddles the sound somewhat on those, but I've also heard that firmware updates are slowly sorting that out.


----------



## Sam L

tma6 said:


> Btw if anyone looking for a fantastic wired iem that doesn’t break the bank the Thieaudio Legacy 3s are absolutely phenomenal for the price. That’s all Ill say here but going to write a review of them on the L3 head fi thread.



Sadly, Ive been out of the IEM game for a long while, though I almost exclusively listen to IEMs lately. I'll have to look into these. Thanks for the recommendation.


----------



## voicemaster (Apr 29, 2020)

raymanh said:


> Hi everyone, first post here. I'm looking for my first set of TWEs. I want something mainly small, sweat proof and with an ambient sound mode. ANC and wireless charging would be a plus. Price is a factor, I'd like to spend as little as possible.
> 
> So far considered Sony WF 1000XM3, MW07 Plus, Galaxy Buds Plus, Jabra Elite 75t and Sennheiser MTW.
> 
> ...



1more ANC fits all your criterias.
It is not the smallest, but the case is small and fit in my jeans watch pocket just fine. The case does have wireless charging. ANC and pass through mode. Sound quality is alot better now with firmware 3.44. Sadly no EQ on the app.


----------



## eiraku

voicemaster said:


> 1more ANC fits all your criterias.



So yeah, have the latest FW updates on those helped with the "ANC muddling sound" thing? And how's the app been? Stable?

The only real "everything-including-the-kitchen sink" _upgrade _(or perhaps _sidegrade_) I see right now to my L2Ps seem to be these, so I'm pretty interested too.


----------



## voicemaster

eiraku said:


> So yeah, have the latest FW updates on those helped with the "ANC muddling sound" thing? And how's the app been? Stable?
> 
> The only real "everything-including-the-kitchen sink" _upgrade _(or perhaps _sidegrade_) I see right now to my L2Ps seem to be these, so I'm pretty interested too.


They fixed the muddy sound when turning on the ANC. Now they sound 90% the same as without ANC. 
I haven't had any issue with the app. And you really don't need to use the app as it is only to turn on/off the ANC and ambiance mode. You can do all of these on the buds themselves. The only thing you need to set is the autoplay mode and upgrading firmware otherwise you can live without the app.


----------



## Luke Skywalker

HeadphoneAddict said:


> We're getting closer to being there - my Westone W80 with the BT V2 cable are outstanding, and the BT cable for Audeze iSine 10 is quite good too. I'm getting ready to start trying out my Westone ES60 on their BT V2 cable, and then burning in my JH Audio 4-pin BT cable for my Roxanne, and another BT cable for my 2-pin JH 13 pro and JH 16 Pro freqphase custom IEM.
> 
> But the best bang for the buck so far seems to be my Sennheiser Momentum True Wireless buds, at $199 on Amazon now.
> Review - Sennheiser Momentum True Wireless


Do you like your JH bluetooth cable?  It had too much bass for me and it's sitting in a drawer now.  I did pick up their balanced cable which sounds pretty awesome.  Got a couple of adapters to connect the balanced 4.4 on my HiBy R6 Pro and the 3.5 on my iFi xDSD


----------



## Luke Skywalker

aspirina750 said:


> I have to make a choice, I already own the Sony XM3, the Buds+ and the APP and I have store credit that have to use before Tuesday, the current options in the shop are the Jabra Active 75T, the old Momentum and the Lypertek Tevi... Which ones would fill a spot on my lineup? I was thinking the Jabra for the extra bass umph but the Tevi reviews are so good that make me doubt... Any advice?
> 
> Thanks


I'd add the Nuarl N6 Pro to your list to consider.  Far better than the Sony's in my humble opinion


----------



## Luke Skywalker

voicemaster said:


> The Nuarl N6 pro sounds better than my universal 1964 V6S ($700). I don't have the MTW to compare so I can't comment on it, but the Nuarl N6 pro is really next level in term of sound from my collection of TWS so far. The only TWS that can compete SQ wise is Mifo07, but they have different sound signature. But the N6 fits wider genre of music, be it EDM, dubstep, jazz, rock, classic, etc. The only thing missing are ANC and ambiance mode which the MTW2 has.


I agree 1 million%.  The N6's sound as good as my JH Lola's for some music


----------



## RobinFood

AudioNoob said:


> Has recent updates addressed the embarrassment of Xm3 mics only working for calls and not on WhatsApp and other third party call/recording apps? Sony used to say they are only compatible with incoming direct calls!?..



I think that has to do with the app and not the headphone.

I use Facebook messenger to talk to my parents once a week and can never use my true wireless earbuds. The app always defaults to speakers and the phone microphone. Even with regular wired earbuds it defaults to speakers. 

It is really annoying but some research lead me to that answer. Some VOIP apps choose to only use speakers.


----------



## PixelSquish (Apr 29, 2020)

RobinFood said:


> I think that has to do with the app and not the headphone.
> 
> I use Facebook messenger to talk to my parents once a week and can never use my true wireless earbuds. The app always defaults to speakers and the phone microphone. Even with regular wired earbuds it defaults to speakers.
> 
> It is really annoying but some research lead me to that answer. Some VOIP apps choose to only use speakers.



The Senn MTW2's work fine on What's app calls.


----------



## eiraku (Apr 29, 2020)

BTW, last time I heard someone was gonna order the Astrotec S90 Pros to try them out? Whatever happened to that?

I kinda can get them for the price of the Edifier TWS NB here where I am, and that twin BA setup is pretty intriguing TBH.

Of course, no EQ app or ambient passthrough or ANC or anything like that, though the case does QI which is pretty nice to have (I'm spoiled by the L2P case lol).


----------



## Spidermanxd

https://hypebeast.com/2020/4/evangelion-final-wireless-earbuds-release

Interesting tws from Final Audio


----------



## TheLionelHutz

RobinFood said:


> I think that has to do with the app and not the headphone.
> 
> I use Facebook messenger to talk to my parents once a week and can never use my true wireless earbuds. The app always defaults to speakers and the phone microphone. Even with regular wired earbuds it defaults to speakers.
> 
> It is really annoying but some research lead me to that answer. Some VOIP apps choose to only use speakers.


I use all my TWS with FB messenger calls all the time on Android.


----------



## voicemaster

Spidermanxd said:


> https://hypebeast.com/2020/4/evangelion-final-wireless-earbuds-release
> 
> Interesting tws from Final Audio


For 18000 USD???


----------



## Spidermanxd

voicemaster said:


> For 18000 USD???


¥18,000 JPY (approximately $168 USD).


----------



## RobinFood

PixelSquish said:


> The Senn MTW2's work fine on What's app calls.





TheLionelHutz said:


> I use all my TWS with FB messenger calls all the time on Android.



I don't use What's App, but for FB messenger on Android you are right, I made a mistake.
I use the FB Messenger Lite with calls and it works, it is with the video chat that the speaker comes on.

With Android on video chat on the Facebook Messenger Lite with my phone (Moto G7 Power) no matter what true wireless I use (Nuarls, Sonys or Sabbats), or even if I use some wired earbuds, it always defaults to speakers. It is very annoying.


----------



## d3myz

AudioNoob said:


> Did you try walking and facing away from your phone to test the xm mic? It might simply be your phone microphone picking up your voice well. Many realized it after trying to talk with their phones in their pockets


I just tested the XM3 on my iphone with Zoom, it works, but I can't switch between Ambient mode and ANC.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict (Apr 29, 2020)

Luke Skywalker said:


> Do you like your JH bluetooth cable?  It had too much bass for me and it's sitting in a drawer now.  I did pick up their balanced cable which sounds pretty awesome.  Got a couple of adapters to connect the balanced 4.4 on my HiBy R6 Pro and the 3.5 on my iFi xDSD



RE: JHA BT cables - I have only briefly tested them, and with the 2-pin on JH13pro it is great, but with the older JH16Pro freqphase the midrange gets pretty forward and mushy. With the brief test with Roxanne and the 4-pin BT cable, the bass is massive but well controlled and the rest is great. I would set the iPhone EQ to bass-reducer for the Roxanne, which is one of the few EQ modes that doesn't make the iPhone audio sound clipped. I'll have more to post in a couple of weeks.

*UPDATE - My Nuarl N6P showed up a day early, and I think my left ear bud is bad. *I read all the instructions first and charged them. In the instructions I read about slave and master as well. I paired them to my iPhone 11 Pro Max as described in the manual, and the left one had the flashing orange and white LEDs when I started. After I selected the NUARL N6PRO-L to pair with, then my settings popped up a dialog asking if I wanted to pair (a second time), and I said yes (instructions say I will choose to pair twice).

After that both NUARL N6PRO-L and -R show up in BT settings. They decide which one will be master and slave depending on the battery level, but regardless of which one is chosen as master, the sound only comes from the right side. The left or right buttons work to control audio volume and play/pause, but no sound come out of the left. If I jiggle the left in my ears, I can get sound for about 1 second on the left that cuts out after 1 second!

When I try to reset them, the left one doesn't respond to a long press on the main button to get the beeps that indicate it is reset. I unpaired and re-paired several times, doesn't help. I rebooted the iPhone 11 Pro Max and tried to repair again, no help.

Suggestions?

[EDIT - Same issue with MacBook Pro. The -L pairs fine and then the MacBook asks me to pair with the -R, and both pair successfully. But there is no sound from the left. On the MacBook Pro, jiggling the left earpiece did not produce temporary 1 second of sound on the left. I tried again on MacBook Pro and now I can make the left play for about 1 second if I jiggle it and press it in and back out and in.]

Also, it doesn't matter whether I try pairing the -R or -L first, the MacBook or iPhone will ask me if I want to pair the other one, which I accept. But only sound comes from the right, unless I jiggle the -L in my ear and get brief sound. Controls on both earbuds work. SO BUMMED]

EDIT - 45 minutes later, now the left won't play even if I jiggle it - it's dead. Buttons work, but I get no audible feedback on the left like I do the right. Amazon will have a replacement here Sunday.


----------



## tma6

HeadphoneAddict said:


> RE: JHA BT cables - I have only briefly tested them, and with the 2-pin on JH13pro it is great, but with the older JH16Pro freqphase the midrange gets pretty forward and mushy. With the brief test with Roxanne and the 4-pin BT cable, the bass is massive but well controlled and the rest is great. I would set the iPhone EQ to bass-reducer for the Roxanne, which is one of the few EQ modes that doesn't make the iPhone audio sound clipped. I'll have more to post in a couple of weeks.
> 
> *UPDATE - My Nuarl N6P showed up a day early, and I think my left ear bud is bad. *I read all the instructions first and charged them. In the instructions I read about slave and master as well. I paired them to my iPhone 11 Pro Max as described in the manual, and the left one had the flashing orange and white LEDs when I started. After I selected the NUARL N6PRO-L to pair with, then my settings popped up a dialog asking if I wanted to pair (a second time), and I said yes (instructions say I will choose to pair twice).
> 
> ...



Damn that is super disappointing. Honestly they do seem to have some QC issues. I think @d3myz you had an issue w the N6Ps right? I'll keep that in mind for my ranking.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict (Apr 29, 2020)

tma6 said:


> Damn that is super disappointing. Honestly they do seem to have some QC issues. I think @d3myz you had an issue w the N6Ps right? I'll keep that in mind for my ranking.



Well, there were NO 1-star or 2-star reviews on Amazon. With 2/3 of people giving them 5-stars, and 21% 4-stars = 89% 4-5 stars. One of the two 3-star reviews in February had the left side go out.

I did get the 3 yr Assurion warranty with it when I bought them, and I'm pretty sure that still covers the replacement pair - Assurion covers accidents from day-1 or for defects kicks in after Amazon 30-day return period has ended and the manufacturers warranty has run out.

I almost returned them and ordered another set with another warranty, but I seem to recall it's a pain to get the original pair's warranty refunded if I returned them (maybe that was square trade was a pain). So, since they'd be here Sunday no matter what, and I won't have to wait "up to 14 days" for a refund on the first pair, I opted to let them do an exchange.

I also have a lot of BT choices until Sunday.


----------



## tma6

HeadphoneAddict said:


> Well, there were NO 1-star or 2-star reviews on Amazon. With 2/3 of people giving them 5-stars, and 21% 4-stars = 89% 4-5 stars. One of the two 3-star reviews in February had the left side go out.
> 
> I did get the 3 yr Assurion warranty with it when I bought them, and I'm pretty sure that still covers the replacement pair - Assurion covers accidents from day-1 or for defects kicks in after Amazon 30-day return period has ended and the manufacturers warranty has run out.
> 
> I almost returned them and ordered another set with another warranty, but I seem to recall it's a pain to get the original pair's warranty refunded if I returned them (maybe that was square trade was a pain). So, since they'd be here Sunday no matter what, and I won't have to wait "up to 14 days" for a refund on the first pair, I opted to let them do an exchange.



K that's not so bad. Good luck on the next set man!


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

tma6 said:


> K that's not so bad. Good luck on the next set man!



Thanks. 

One side playing doesn't sound anything special. but when the left kicked in for just a second it completely changes the experience, and I got a taste of the airy spacious soundstage until the left kicked out again. I just have to see what it sounds like for a full song, so I elected not to return them, like some people who gave up on the MTW2 when one failed


----------



## tma6

HeadphoneAddict said:


> Thanks.
> 
> One side playing doesn't sound anything special. but when the left kicked in for just a second it completely changes the experience, and I got a taste of the airy spacious soundstage until the left kicked out again. I just have to see what it sounds like for a full song, so I elected not to return them, like some people who gave up on the MTW2 when one failed



Haha yes I would say definitely do not judge them based on one ear.


----------



## voicemaster

HeadphoneAddict said:


> Thanks.
> 
> One side playing doesn't sound anything special. but when the left kicked in for just a second it completely changes the experience, and I got a taste of the airy spacious soundstage until the left kicked out again. I just have to see what it sounds like for a full song, so I elected not to return them, like some people who gave up on the MTW2 when one failed


So it works now or?


----------



## HeadphoneAddict (Apr 30, 2020)

tma6 said:


> Haha yes I would say definitely do not judge them based on one ear.





voicemaster said:


> So it works now or?



I did replacement instead of return.

I got that short glimpse of how they could sound as a stereo pair, in the ONE second before the left side would cut out when jiggling, and it sounded very promising. But once I could not get the left to play at all, no matter how much I jiggled it, then I gave up and had Amazon send me the replacement pair, arriving Sunday.

I also spoke to Assurion, just in case, and my extended warranty with accident protection only covers items purchased at the same time or bought within the 30 days PRIOR to buying the plan. The replacement N6P that Amazon ordered today, 2 days after I bought the protection plan, would require a new plan and I had to cancel the previous one.

I told them that the replacement receipt for the 2nd N6P shows $0, but the plan is for portable electronics between $150-175, and they said just keep both receipts for the original N6P and the replacement set, along with the receipt for the new plan. I also saved the Amazon page that shows the original N6P was replaced, but that it was within the correct price range.

*Replacement ordered
Your replacement has been ordered.



NUARL N6 Pro TWS True Wireless Stereo Earphones Earbuds Bluetooth5 11hr Playback aptX with HDSS IPX4 N6PRO-MB(MATT Black)
Sold by: NUARL OFFICIAL by MTI
$162.00*


----------



## chinmie

Isn't this the same as the NuFlo from Indiegogo?


https://m.aliexpress.com/item/4000991407549.html


----------



## d3myz

HeadphoneAddict said:


> *UPDATE - My Nuarl N6P showed up a day early, and I think my left ear bud is bad. *I read all the instructions first and charged them. In the instructions I read about slave and master as well. I paired them to my iPhone 11 Pro Max as described in the manual, and the left one had the flashing orange and white LEDs when I started. After I selected the NUARL N6PRO-L to pair with, then my settings popped up a dialog asking if I wanted to pair (a second time), and I said yes (instructions say I will choose to pair twice).
> 
> After that both NUARL N6PRO-L and -R show up in BT settings. They decide which one will be master and slave depending on the battery level, but regardless of which one is chosen as master, the sound only comes from the right side. The left or right buttons work to control audio volume and play/pause, but no sound come out of the left. If I jiggle the left in my ears, I can get sound for about 1 second on the left that cuts out after 1 second!
> 
> ...


I had the same issue. one of my buds was blinking white and wouldn't reset, here's the Post and to clarify, the right bud was the one having the issue. You have to put both of them in reset mode and I guess my right bud was stuck. So it sounds like you need to put your right bud into reset mode and then wait for them to reset. Good Luck.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

d3myz said:


> I had the same issue. one of my buds was blinking white and wouldn't reset, here's the Post and to clarify, the right bud was the one having the issue. You have to put both of them in reset mode and I guess my right bud was stuck. So it sounds like you need to put your right bud into reset mode and then wait for them to reset. Good Luck.



I tried resetting the right, and the left. 

After deleting the BT profile for them on my iPhone and MacBook, when I take them out of the case, every 3 seconds they both give me a quick 3 white blinks quite fast, and repeats every 3 seconds. 

If I double click the left main button it's LED blinks alternating orange then white then orange = pairing mode. If I select the NUARL N6PRO-L in my iPhone BT settings it pairs, and then the iPhone gives me a pop up asking me to pair NUARL N6PRO-R and I click okay.

At that point, the left is connected as master in the iPhone BT settings, and right is slave and doesn't show connected to the iPhone because it's connected to the left. 

Both will then blink white about once every 6-7 seconds at the same time. So, if I put them in my ears and hit play in the music app, I only hear music in the right ear. 

The left doesn't make any sound, but if I click the left front volume button it turns down the volume on the right side that is playing. The left volume up also works, as does the left play pause button (main button). So, left buttons work, left speaker does not.

SO, I PREPARE TO RESET again. I go back and delete both of the NUARL N6PRO profiles from BT settings, and check the buds and they are back to the rapid pulse of 3 white blinks every 3 seconds.

I put them back in my ears and long press and hold the main button on BOTH until I hear 3 beeps, but I only hear it in the right ear, but after the 3 beeps I click the main button twice on BOTH after the 3 beeps as per the instructions to reset, and both did some continuous fast rapid white blinks for a few seconds, then the left one went into pairing mode, while the right one would do the rapid 3 blinks every 3 seconds.

I re-pair the NUARL N6PRO-L again, and it connects, but this time the iPhone does NOT ask me to pair the right one. While the NUARL N6PRO-L is connected, both are doing the slow single white blink every 6-7 seconds.

I put them in my ears, and hit play but music only comes from the right, even though it is not paired to work as a master and I'm connected to the left only. This is the first time that my iPhone didn't throw a pop up to ask me to pair the other.

I repeated the reset process, and again, I GET NO AUDIBLE FEEDBACK FROM LEFT, so I have to just do both buds at the same time and use the the beeps that I hear in the right to know when to do the double click on both main buttons. After pairing with the N6PRO-L this time, the iPhone did pop up a request to pair the other. After I hit okay it was connected to N6PRO-L as master, but still has no sound from the left while the buttons work.

There was one time that I did see the right one blinking orange/white and the left had continuous white blinks, but it didn't get stuck there. It also sounds like your unpaired ear piece would still beep or make sounds when programing it?


----------



## HeadphoneAddict (Apr 30, 2020)

It also doesn't matter if the right one is connected as master, with the pop up asking me to pair the left, the left bud is silent but acts like it's working otherwise. I have no trouble pairing either one to my iPhone or MacBook Pro, and it doesn't matter which bud is connected via BT to the iPhone or MacBook Pro, sound only comes out of the right.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict (Apr 30, 2020)

So, I tried resetting once more, and after that the left one (silent one) went into pairing mode, the right went into continuous rapid blinking, even after the left one paired to the phone. The phone didn't ask to pair to the right, and it's still blinking after a couple fo minutes.

With the left one pared and connected, with the right one still blinking I tried to play music, and there is still no sound coming from the left one.

Clicking any of the buttons on the right didn't stop the rapid blinking, but I left it alone and reset the left, using a count to 7 or 8 seconds before double clicking (since I had no beeps). That put the left into rapid blinking like the right, but then after a few seconds the left went into pairing mode and the right one went back to the 3 quick blinks every 3 seconds.

I set them to the side and will let them power off before trying to pair them again.


----------



## assassin10000

Sounds like there was a bad solder joint or wire to the driver. Considering shaking/jiggling gave you a very brief amount of sound. Since it does connect and transfers to the right side on pairing.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

assassin10000 said:


> Sounds like there was a bad solder joint or wire to the driver. Considering shaking/jiggling gave you a very brief amount of sound. Since it does connect and transfers to the right side on pairing.



It was more like pressing the left one into my ear and then relaxing and then pressing it in, and then relaxing. Not shaking them. But, the amount of time it played, about 1 second, was the same each time, not variable like I'd expect with a loose wire - maybe more like flexing the circuit board a minute amount to get a connection as I pushed them in, and having the sound go away when I let go of the pressure.

So, After my last post where I did an umpteenth reset, I let them sit until they shut down. Then woke them with a click on the main button. The left went into pairing mode and everything went as expected with iPhone asking to pair the other. With music still only sound on the right side.

I'm done. Will report back Sunday with the new pair, and shipping these back tomorrow.


----------



## bronco1015

E





HeadphoneAddict said:


> It's nice that you came to the same conclusion as me. The N6P will be here Thursday, since I already have the original MTW.
> 
> If the MTW2 were a similar price I might have swung for them, but I was worried about the changes in the tonal balance that I've read about in the MTW2. Spending $299 without hearing them first made me nervous. I tend to only buy what I like and then do a review on it, hence so few negative reviews out the hundred or more that I've done.
> 
> ...


Awesome! I hope you like them. Look forward to hearing your impressions. FWIW, the n6 pro do well with some burn in.. personally i go back and forth on it and i know our brains aclimate to differences in sound etc, i did feel though like they had to settle in to their sound signature. No rediculous amount of hours, and not even meant as a precaution or caveat, just passing some info along that some of us discovered with them and shared in this thread back in January. YMMV of course. Quick sidenote, if i read your post correctly, you picked up 2 pair of MTW's and a pair of 800S's for $1500? While you can find discounts on the 800S, altogether; that's a hell of a deal. Well done. i payed $1100 for my 800S about 3 years ago. Some of the best money i've ever spent.


----------



## bronco1015

d3myz said:


> I received the new Deep Bass version of the Tranya Rimor on Sunday.
> Disclosure: These were sent to me by Ida@Tranya to demo, without any agreement to review them just to send her my feedback. I'm not sure why she keeps sending earbuds when they come out, but she does, so Thanks Tranya.  For reference, I owned the previous hi-fi 10mm version back in Nov. and was not a fan of the boosted mid sound and narrow sound stage.
> 
> This new version is supposedly 8mm, even though the box says 10mm. I confirmed with Ida at Tranya that due to the virus they haven't been able to update the boxes and there is now only one version of the Rimor amazon is selling. Even if you choose Hi-Fi, you are getting the Deep Bass version. I have my doubts about that, due to the website only advertising the 10mm version Hi-Fi etc. i'll take their word for it.
> ...


I also got an email, though it was to review them. lucky you. Do you get emails for drones and stuff as well? Those come from someone else but they reference me reviewing headphones like, hey. you reviewed these headphones, wanna review a drone? me uh, sure!...why not. Anyway, i was gonna order these to review them and give to a family member, but i wanna wait to see if you're 2nd pair is also defective.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict (Apr 30, 2020)

bronco1015 said:


> E
> Awesome! I hope you like them. Look forward to hearing your impressions. FWIW, the n6 pro do well with some burn in.. personally i go back and forth on it and i know our brains aclimate to differences in sound etc, i did feel though like they had to settle in to their sound signature. No rediculous amount of hours, and not even meant as a precaution or caveat, just passing some info along that some of us discovered with them and shared in this thread back in January. YMMV of course. Quick sidenote, if i read your post correctly, you picked up 2 pair of MTW's and a pair of 800S's for $1500? While you can find discounts on the 800S, altogether; that's a hell of a deal. Well done. i payed $1100 for my 800S about 3 years ago. Some of the best money i've ever spent.



I only got my first MTW + HD800s for $1500 at RMAF. The HD800s were new, and the MTW were the demos. Part of why I got the deal was I bought the last pair of HD800s, and then another gentleman came by and wanted to buy a pair, but only if he could get them like now. So, I agreed to let him take them home and have mine shipped, and I got the MTW in the deal. Then later I got another MTW.

I would only buy the HD800s because my 22 yr old son was giving me $600 for my original HD800 from the 1st batch released at CanJam LA in May 2009. When the 1st HD800 were announced in Jan 2009 I got on the list right away, and TTVJ used my HD800 as the demo pair at CanJam LA, and in return I got them with the stock cable converted to 4-pin XLR with a 1/4" plug pigtail. Plus got dibs on one of the first 25 pairs of Grado HF-2  #24 (the original Head-Fi version was numbered 0-24, while the second batch of about 400 had them misprinted as Head-F1).


----------



## raymanh

Update on my search. Went to another store.

Tried the 75t again, very nice fit, nice sound but very very heavy thick bass. I downloaded the app to try and reduce the bass, it didn't work so well, the bass volume drops but there's still a thick underlying thump. Maybe could've done better with more bands in the EQ (the app only has 4 or 5 bands).

Tried the MW07 GO. More neural sound than the 75t but for me they didn't fit very well despite trying multiple tips. I think my ears prefer designs that go deeper in your ears and without wingtips.

Tried the N6 Pro again. Fit me as well as the 75t, much better more neutral sound, fuller and warmer sounding than the MW07 GO. Problem is no hear through.

Was suggested a pair of Noble Falcons. Nice fit for me, goes deep in the ear. Sounded like halfway between the N6 Pro and 75t. Cheapest but no hear through.

Tried another Samsung store. Still couldn't find a demo unit without cables attached the each bud for security, so couldn't accurately try the fit.

Still trying to find a pair of 1More ANC to try after the suggestions here.


----------



## DigDub

Another update for the original galaxy buds.


----------



## TYATYA

BigZ12 said:


> Why are the most expensive brands using NFMI? Jabra, Sennheiser, B&O... I have no problem hearing the artifacts with SBC on the left with the ones I've tried. (Elite 65T, MTW, E8 2.0)
> I was about to buy the B&O E8 3.0 at almost $400  , but after reading they use NFMI I didn't.
> I'm afraid the updated Senn' MTW 2 will use NFMI too...
> 
> ...



No.
E8 2.0 will stops when listener stand near a speaker or other magnet field.
E8 3.0 did not has that "matter".
You can separate R and L far as metters and they still sound both.


----------



## TYATYA

erockg said:


> Not sure what you mean.  I just picked them up.  It’s AAC on the iPhone.  They are pretty great so far.



Do you find 3.0 has longer delay than 2.0?
My smart phone allow to connect and sound simultanously both E8 pairs.
I put on my ears a R of 2.0 and a L of 3.0 then I know that thing.
Strange!


----------



## Ilomaenkimi

I have used one week AirPod pros now, must say that i'm positively surprised by the soundquality. ANC  is fairly good also.


----------



## d3myz

HeadphoneAddict said:


> I tried resetting the right, and the left.
> 
> After deleting the BT profile for them on my iPhone and MacBook, when I take them out of the case, every 3 seconds they both give me a quick 3 white blinks quite fast, and repeats every 3 seconds.
> 
> ...



Yea, I always had audio out of both of my ear buds. Sounds like you may have gotten a dud. Sorry about that, man. I sent both my N6 and N6 pro Nuarl's back. They N6 pro didn't have enough bass for me and the driver flex on my N6 starting driving me crazy after a while. They sounded phenomenal, but I thought they were too bulky and I have a hard time wearing anything now that doesn't have a pass-through mode now. I do kind of missi them, but I honestly think the Amazon echo buds, even though they have some major flaws are close to as good in sound quality.


----------



## d3myz

HeadphoneAddict said:


> So, I tried resetting once more, and after that the left one (silent one) went into pairing mode, the right went into continuous rapid blinking, even after the left one paired to the phone. The phone didn't ask to pair to the right, and it's still blinking after a couple fo minutes.
> 
> With the left one pared and connected, with the right one still blinking I tried to play music, and there is still no sound coming from the left one.
> 
> ...


btw, i forgot to mention the full reset process takes at least 5 min. to complete.


----------



## assassin10000

d3myz said:


> Yea, I always had audio out of both of my ear buds. Sounds like you may have gotten a dud. Sorry about that, man. I sent both my N6 and N6 pro Nuarl's back. They N6 pro didn't have enough bass for me and the driver flex on my N6 starting driving me crazy after a while. They sounded phenomenal, but I thought they were too bulky and I have a hard time wearing anything now that doesn't have a pass-through mode now. I do kind of missi them, but I honestly think the Amazon echo buds, even though they have some major flaws are close to as good in sound quality.



What do you think of the Echo buds vs the Air-XR's?


----------



## thrgk

TheLionelHutz said:


> I use the Anker Soundcore Life P2 exclusively for calls.  Lollipop design, but excellent.  My Advanced Sound Model X+ also have really great call quality despite being in-ear. They pick up more ambient noise, though.  (Yes, I test mic quality on everything; yes, it involves multiple phones, different buds in each ear at the same time, and talking to myself).


I cant get lollipop ones to stay in my ear, I am using the smallest tips but they just hang there and pop out easily


----------



## d3myz

assassin10000 said:


> What do you think of the Echo buds vs the Air-XR's?


Echo Buds Def. sound better than the Air X, but I didn't love the fit. For me they fit really deep in my canal, so with shallow tips they felt good but became uncomfortable over time.  The Airs are super small and realy comfortable, have wireless charging, and they just work really well. Ambient mode is really good on the Echo's better than XM3's not as good as APPs. Overall though the Echo buds touch sensors are way to sensitive and they do have some connection and integration issues with ios, but they do consistently release firmware so that may have changed. The charging case on the Echo Buds is way too big and kind of cheap. The way the buds fit into the case is challenging with a lot of aftermarket tips and you have to make sure the bud is charging, because they way the sit in the case is really intuitive. I returned them a month or so ago and it was the worst experience of my life with Amazon. They wouldn't replace them because they were 29 days old, so they tried to warranty them. Not to mention the hours and hours I spent redirected by people who had no idea what they were talking about and didn't tell me there was a special dept. that handles the Echo stuff.  In the end I returned they charged me a restocking fee. I really hope amazon comes out with a new version of the buds, with wireless charging, a better case, better touch sensors and a smaller form factor.


----------



## assassin10000 (Apr 30, 2020)

d3myz said:


> Echo Buds Def. sound better than the Air X, but I didn't love the fit. For me they fit really deep in my canal, so with shallow tips they felt good but became uncomfortable over time.  The Airs are super small and realy comfortable, have wireless charging, and they just work really well. Ambient mode is really good on the Echo's better than XM3's not as good as APPs. Overall though the Echo buds touch sensors are way to sensitive and they do have some connection and integration issues with ios, but they do consistently release firmware so that may have changed. The charging case on the Echo Buds is way too big and kind of cheap. The way the buds fit into the case is challenging with a lot of aftermarket tips and you have to make sure the bud is charging, because they way the sit in the case is really intuitive. I returned them a month or so ago and it was the worst experience of my life with Amazon. They wouldn't replace them because they were 29 days old, so they tried to warranty them. Not to mention the hours and hours I spent redirected by people who had no idea what they were talking about and didn't tell me there was a special dept. that handles the Echo stuff.  In the end I returned they charged me a restocking fee. I really hope amazon comes out with a new version of the buds, with wireless charging, a better case, better touch sensors and a smaller form factor.



In what way was the sound better? If you can recall since you can't directly compare lol. Even though the fit probably kills it for me. Are they worse than the LP2?

Did you check ANC vs the XM3's as well?


----------



## TheLionelHutz

thrgk said:


> I cant get lollipop ones to stay in my ear, I am using the smallest tips but they just hang there and pop out easily


I also use QCY T3 lollipops for Zoom calls on my laptop. They are not "semi-in-ear", but they aren't normal IEMs, either, and they come with this sort of funnel shaped tip that makes them feel like a semi - no seal, but sound is directed down the ear canal. They sort of hook into your ear, if that makes sense. My wife has super small ears and she finds she can use the QCYs with those funnel tips. But I would never dream of using them for music - Zoom and Webex calls only. Not as good call quality as the Ankers, but not bad, either. Better than a lot of cheapos I've tried.


----------



## d3myz

assassin10000 said:


> In what way was the sound better? If you can recall since you can't directly compare lol. Even though the fit probably kills it for me. Are they worse than the LP2?
> 
> Did you check ANC vs the XM3's as well?


The bass was deeper and cleaner and the mids and highs were detailed and sparkly. I think the weakest part were the mids, but they were still not bad. With the Alexa app, you can fine tune the eq. It reminded me of a bose home audio sound. The ANC was ok, but they rely heavily on passive noise isolation. I think they were probably equal to the XM3 if not a little worse. I really like the fit against the ears but the stems were deep, I had to use shallow tips. now that I have all these short foam tips, it may be worth giving them another shot, but I just don't want to deal with amazon again. Also, I got them on sale for $90 or so and they are still $120. I wouldn't pay that. The sound quality is excellent, but the other compromises, like the clunky case and overly sensitive touch, kind of killed it for me.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict (Apr 30, 2020)

d3myz said:


> btw, i forgot to mention the full reset process takes at least 5 min. to complete.



On the last 2 attempts I let them sit outside of the case for about that long, until they both shut down.

PS: which ones have you NOT returned, and how are they?


----------



## IEManiac

AVIOT anyone?


----------



## IEManiac

How I EQ the L2P


----------



## voicemaster

IEManiac said:


> How I EQ the L2P


wow u really love them mid bass huh!!


----------



## assassin10000

IEManiac said:


> How I EQ the L2P



Mine, but still playing with it... as you can see I have a bunch saved lol.


----------



## IEManiac

voicemaster said:


> wow u really love them mid bass huh!!


100Hz mid-bass?


----------



## voicemaster

IEManiac said:


> 100Hz mid-bass?


The 200 and 400


----------



## IEManiac (May 1, 2020)

voicemaster said:


> The 200 and 400


I call that the mid-range, the frequency range that the Anker-defined presets emasculate. My view is that the L2P manage to sound good _despite_ Anker's woeful tuning. Just listen to the stock Anker Soundcore preset. They have got to be kidding!


----------



## eiraku (May 1, 2020)

IEManiac said:


> I call that the mid-range, the frequency range that the Anker-defined presets emasculate. My view is that the L2P manage to sound good _despite_ Anker's woeful tuning. Just listen to the stock Anker Soundcore preset. They have got to be kidding!



Yeah that much I haveta agree, the mids sure need a boost on the L2P's stock settings. But hey, at least the drivers respond quite positively to all our EQing and the app makes it trivial to so so.

Now, if only those geniuses over at SC can make ambient mode work...


----------



## GeeD

voicemaster said:


> 1more ANC fits all your criterias.
> It is not the smallest, but the case is small and fit in my jeans watch pocket just fine. The case does have wireless charging. ANC and pass through mode. Sound quality is alot better now with firmware 3.44. Sadly no EQ on the app.


The 1More are not quoted as sweat proofs so may not be ideal, depending on how much sweat I suppose 

The 1More ANC have just released fw 0.03.62 and an update to the Music App to make the update work.  I know you lot seem to think different, but for me I still think ANC makes the sound more narrow, less warm, less depth and just tinny.  I also think the max volume is lower in this release.

I really loved the original 1More ANC but now think these are going in the bin.  The 1More Stylish sound just as good and have a little more volume.

cheers


----------



## raymanh

Where I am the 1More ANC hasn't been released yet. They also look a bit bulky. 

I've narrowed my choice down to two options. The Elite 75t and the Galaxy Buds+. While the N6 Pro sound the best, they are bulkier and do not have pass through sound.

The 75t fit much better as it seemed to go deep in my ear canal and had very good isolation. The Buds + on the other hand do not go so deep and I was unable to try a larger tip at the Samsung store.

Soundwise, the 75t has such an overwhelming bass, even with EQ adjusted all the way down at the low frequency bands. The Buds sounded a bit bland, probably because I couldn't get a proper seal. 

Not seen much praise here for the Buds +. I know a few sites like soundguys and crinacle rate them very very highly, above lots of other brands. Any views here?


----------



## IEManiac

raymanh said:


> Where I am the 1More ANC hasn't been released yet. They also look a bit bulky.
> 
> I've narrowed my choice down to two options. The Elite 75t and the Galaxy Buds+. While the N6 Pro sound the best, they are bulkier and do not have pass through sound.
> 
> ...


Yeah, they are tuned to the Harman target. The problem is that Harman is not gospel and it's kinda dull.


----------



## RobinFood

IEManiac said:


> Yeah, they are tuned to the Harman target. The problem is that Harman is not gospel and it's kinda dull.



Personally I prefer diffuse-field target and EQ to that if I can.


----------



## IEManiac

RobinFood said:


> Personally I prefer diffuse-field target and EQ to that if I can.


DT770 is Diffuse-field, right?


----------



## axhng

Just got these earlier today. Already shared some of my early thoughts on the KZ thread, but these are pretty nice sounding and a pretty significant improvement over the S2 in terms of sound. Deeper and punchier bass (S2 doesn't really have much sub bass), fuller sounding mids (S2 was a little thin sounding and a tiny bit recessed), treble is not peaky or fatiguing and sounds more natural (S2 was a little sibilant, a little thin, slightly steely). I like the sound of these more than some of their IEMs actually, if they put the same driver and tuning in the ZSN Pro or ZSX's shell, I'll probably buy it.

But... it takes a few steps back from the S2 in terms of features. The case doesn't feel as premium, it goes back to using micro-USB, and battery life is bad (it's smaller than the S2's battery probably because of the bigger driver, so it's just over 2 hours of use per charge). My guess is most of the cost if going into the new driver they're using. Now the early bird promo is over for the S2, the price is actually now the same as the Z1 which is probably not a coincidence. haha. So for better sound, Z1. For better features, S2?


----------



## RobinFood

IEManiac said:


> DT770 is Diffuse-field, right?



I'm not sure, I can't wear headphones, they make me feel clostrophobic.

Etymotics use diffuse field with a slight mids boost as their target. I used Crinacles graph database with my xm3 and tried to EQ it to that.

My favorite is still my er4s, but the xm3s get really close and it helps open up the soundstage and sharpen the imaging so much.


----------



## chevybit

Hi,

I recently received the SoundPeats TrueDot. I'm a bit disappointed as the bass is overwhelming. With a bit of EQ they sound good, but nothing great.

Here is my measurement using Dayton Audio iMM-6:





I've had the Samsung Buds before and their resolution is great, but they can sound a bit bright and some peak around 6-7K was fatiguing to me. They lacked the body, too much treble for my taste and like crinacle explains, kind of a "weeb" signature. 

From all cheap TWS I tried and tested so far (and I tried a lot from AliExpress), QCY T5 comes very close to an all-round package.

I'm waiting for the QCY T4 to arrive soon, which has an app with EQ.

Etymotic ER2XR is my reference IEM and I like them a lot.

What other TWS I should check out? What are the latest recommendations in this thread? Thanks.


----------



## IEManiac

chevybit said:


> Hi,
> 
> I recently received the SoundPeats TrueDot. I'm a bit disappointed as the bass is overwhelming. With a bit of EQ they sound good, but nothing great.
> 
> ...


I bought my 10 year-old kid a set of QCY T5 for $20. He likes them quite a lot. Didn't get a chance to audition them for long before I turned them over to him.


----------



## chevybit

IEManiac said:


> I bought my 10 year-old kid a set of QCY T5 for $20. He likes them quite a lot. Didn't get a chance to audition them for long before I turned them over to him.



They are even better with proper eartips like SpinFit CP360 (M/L). Tips that came with QCY T5 tend to fall out during phone conversations, eating (moving your jaw).


----------



## d3myz

IEManiac said:


> AVIOT anyone?


Wow, those look a ton like the NTO1AX by Nuarl.


----------



## axhng

chevybit said:


> Hi,
> 
> I recently received the SoundPeats TrueDot. I'm a bit disappointed as the bass is overwhelming. With a bit of EQ they sound good, but nothing great.
> 
> ...



For me I felt the truedots to be too warm for my liking too. I preferred the Haylou GT1 Plus which is similar sounding, but with less bass and a bit more clarity in the mids. It's probably made by the same ODM since the charging case is interchangeable between both.

Had the galaxy buds too and same thoughts, great resolution but a bit thin in the mids for my taste, and treble can be a bit intense at times. using their app to EQ helps though, but I don't like the ungodly amount of permissions samsung demands. lol. QCY T5 is pretty nice, and definitely a good all round package with low latency and good call quality, but purely sound quality wise, I still find the Gt1 Plus to be a bit more pleasing for my taste. Less peaky treble, a bit more body in the mids.

Ordered the QCY T4 on march 29th on aliexpress, still waiting. lol. I used to have the ER2XR as well which i enjoyed, but sold them off. Now i'm using the ER4XR. For TWS, nothing will probably come close when it comes to technicalities, but well, i still like the haylou gt1 plus because it's so cheap, but has a sound signature that I enjoy. That said, haven't tried that many expensive TWS because i feel like they're not that good of an investment in the long run. so maybe others can chip in too.


----------



## RobinFood

d3myz said:


> Wow, those look a ton like the NTO1AX by Nuarl.



They sound very similar too. The case feels huge, but you can use it to charge your phone. They kind of came out around the same time as a competitor at the time.


----------



## DynamicEars

axhng said:


> Just got these earlier today. Already shared some of my early thoughts on the KZ thread, but these are pretty nice sounding and a pretty significant improvement over the S2 in terms of sound. Deeper and punchier bass (S2 doesn't really have much sub bass), fuller sounding mids (S2 was a little thin sounding and a tiny bit recessed), treble is not peaky or fatiguing and sounds more natural (S2 was a little sibilant, a little thin, slightly steely). I like the sound of these more than some of their IEMs actually, if they put the same driver and tuning in the ZSN Pro or ZSX's shell, I'll probably buy it.
> 
> But... it takes a few steps back from the S2 in terms of features. The case doesn't feel as premium, it goes back to using micro-USB, and battery life is bad (it's smaller than the S2's battery probably because of the bigger driver, so it's just over 2 hours of use per charge). My guess is most of the cost if going into the new driver they're using. Now the early bird promo is over for the S2, the price is actually now the same as the Z1 which is probably not a coincidence. haha. So for better sound, Z1. For better features, S2?




wow so you got the new Z1 already! i thought they are still in pre order state? so how the Z1 compared to their wired IEM? Im interested like I said on KZ thread, they have more sub bass and thicker than overall TWS currently with their 10mm driver. How is the bass decay speed and texture? SQ is priority for me rather than other features


----------



## d3myz (May 1, 2020)

HeadphoneAddict said:


> On the last 2 attempts I let them sit outside of the case for about that long, until they both shut down.
> 
> PS: which ones have you NOT returned, and how are they?


I currently own:
Liberty 2 Pro ver. 3, Tranya Rimor, B530 and T3, FIIL T1X, Sony XM3, Ear Fun Free, Tronsmart Spunky Beats, 1more Stylish, Anbes 359/SSK BT01, Mpow T5/M5, Mavin Air-XR. QCY T1 and T1 pro, Chisana C1L, Lystar J29, AirPods Pro, Tiso i4. They are all great pretty great for different things. I have a lot of impressions in this thread of each pair.

I also have the Jabra 75T coming tomorrow. I have pretty much phased out earbuds that don't have ambient/transparency mode as I work at home and have small children, so I'm pretty much always having to take them in and out and it drives me nuts. IMHO and from what I've heard, The Echo buds and the N6/pro were some of the best TWS's i've heard sound quality wise besides the XM3, then maybe the FIIL T1x, Anbes 359. Honorable mention to the Stylish and Air-XR with EQing. I also had the M&D MW07 and I thought it was nice, but the FIIL T1x was better to me, especially for the money. I've had my eye on the Aviot TE-D01b, but it's been a while since i've been active on here and I haven't read much feedback about them. Granted I don't EQ my earbuds, I use an iphone and just stick them in and go. 

I popped in my Anbes 359's today for the first time in probably 6 months and man, these things never cease to impress me. for music, portability and comfort, i'd choose them any day over almost anything I have. I really like my Mavin Air-XR's and spunky beats for portability, but the Anbes' are just purely better everywhere w/o any EQ. Also, i've been testing the mics on my TWS' for zoom calls and hands down everyone is telling me the XM3's and Air Pods Pro are the best that the L2Ps are one of the worst. who would of thought? B530's and Mavin Air XR's we good, but not a full sounding.


----------



## axhng (May 1, 2020)

DynamicEars said:


> wow so you got the new Z1 already! i thought they are still in pre order state? so how the Z1 compared to their wired IEM? Im interested like I said on KZ thread, they have more sub bass and thicker than overall TWS currently with their 10mm driver. How is the bass decay speed and texture? SQ is priority for me rather than other features
> 
> seems like my instinct were right, they have ZSX signature sound? of course with less separation and technicalities. How is the soundstage and imaging?
> and that very fast, i thought they are still in pre order session? now Im interested.. ugh



Will just combine the Q from KZ thread too. haha. I got these from Linsoul a little earlier for review. Probably helps that shipping from China to Singapore is relatively fast. haha. It's one of my favourite sounding KZ to date, though admittedly I haven't really tested that many of their IEMs (only ZSN Pro, ZS10 Pro, ZSX, EDR2) aside from their wireless stuff (T1, S1, S2).

For me the tonality is what I like the most? Because it's a single DD, there is almost no steely treble at all. ZSX was better than the others, but still a tiny bit. Technicalities it loses out to ZSX of course. Sound signature i think it's close? I don't have the ZSX to compare anymore, but I have the same general impressions as I did with the ZSX, which is just how balance the bass, mids, treble are being presented. They are all present and forward sounding and doesn't overpower one another. Though on the ZSX i remember it was a little fatiguing for me and i ended up needing to tone down the 8-9KHz a little, and then it was fine for me. For the Z1, i don't have to do that. ZSN Pro is basically not even worth mentioning compared to the Z1 since the treble is just.. not great. Steely, sibilant, intense. haha. ZS10 Pro fares a little better, but still not a fan of the treble. Personally I value tonality a bit more than technicalities.

for the bass, it's nice actually. I was a little afraid looking at their graph that it would be overwhelming, but it's punchy and thumpy, and doesn't sound too bloated or boomy. I'm listening to caravan from whiplash soundtrack and it has a lot of fast and repeated bass drum beats, especially near the end of the track and it sounds pretty good to me. Sub bass is definitely one of the more substantial I've heard on a pair of TWS earbuds, and I think it's pretty well done too. The sub-bass quantity reminds me on the dual DD AKG earbuds that comes with the Note10, but I didn't particular enjoy that as much since I find the mid bass a little bloated.

Texture wise, it's relatively smooth sounding I guess? Though not to the point where it loses too much definition? I'm not particular good at listening for this and describing this aspect.    Soundstage and imaging i think is quite similar to the haylou gt1 plus? I'm listening to Norman Greenbaum's Spirit in the sky and toto's africa, and the way the instruments comes in one by one sounds pretty similar in terms of their positing. I feel like any difference that I hear might just be down to the Z1 having more bass.

Not sure if that's helpful, but i'm liking it more than I thought I would. Ever since i got the Gt1 plus that has been my go to TWS most of the time, but now it'll probably be the Z1. 

edit: oh and i did a battery test from full to the first low battery warning and it's not pretty. 2 hrs and 10 mins of use at around 45-50% volume (this is the same loudness that I use normally when listening music with any audio gear I have, the volume percentage looks low only because of how ridiculously loud the Z1 is able to get. lol)


----------



## WesennTony

IEManiac said:


> AVIOT anyone?


What do you think of them? Mine are still on the way...


----------



## DynamicEars

axhng said:


> Will just combine the Q from KZ thread too. haha. I got these from Linsoul a little earlier for review. Probably helps that shipping from China to Singapore is relatively fast. haha. It's one of my favourite sounding KZ to date, though admittedly I haven't really tested that many of their IEMs (only ZSN Pro, ZS10 Pro, ZSX, EDR2) aside from their wireless stuff (T1, S1, S2).
> 
> For me the tonality is what I like the most? Because it's a single DD, there is almost no steely treble at all. ZSX was better than the others, but still a tiny bit. Technicalities it loses out to ZSX of course. Sound signature i think it's close? I don't have the ZSX to compare anymore, but I have the same general impressions as I did with the ZSX, which is just how balance the bass, mids, treble are being presented. They are all present and forward sounding and doesn't overpower one another. Though on the ZSX i remember it was a little fatiguing for me and i ended up needing to tone down the 8-9KHz a little, and then it was fine for me. For the Z1, i don't have to do that. ZSN Pro is basically not even worth mentioning compared to the Z1 since the treble is just.. not great. Steely, sibilant, intense. haha. ZS10 Pro fares a little better, but still not a fan of the treble. Personally I value tonality a bit more than technicalities.
> 
> ...




Thanks for your quick and prompt reply. Better than zsx timbre is quite something, and blew off zsn pro. Decent bass and everything else as a bonus. Seems like KZ nail the TWS with Z1. I dont mind 2 hours (and can be recharge with the case) for the great sound quality. Damn


----------



## howdy

d3myz said:


> I currently own:
> Liberty 2 Pro ver. 3, Tranya Rimor, B530 and T3, FIIL T1X, Sony XM3, Ear Fun Free, Tronsmart Spunky Beats, 1more Stylish, Anbes 359/SSK BT01, Mpow T5/M5, Mavin Air-XR. QCY T1 and T1 pro, Chisana C1L, Lystar J29, AirPods Pro, Tiso i4. They are all great pretty great for different things. I have a lot of impressions in this thread of each pair.


Did you ever own the Tevis? I thought I remember you had those once upon a time. Im up to 7 now and hopefully i dont have any more itches for anymore,(with the exception of the new Bose if the damn thing ever gets released).


----------



## axhng

DynamicEars said:


> Thanks for your quick and prompt reply. Better than zsx timbre is quite something, and blew off zsn pro. Decent bass and everything else as a bonus. Seems like KZ nail the TWS with Z1. I dont mind 2 hours (and can be recharge with the case) for the great sound quality. Damn



haha. my memory on the ZSX might be a little fuzzy now though. I still have the ZSN Pro around, but almost never use it other than to compare to some stuff from time to time.

I've been listening to the Z1 throughout the day, and just letting it go through my music library and so far nothing has stood out as being bad on it. it's really enjoyable to listen to. I feel like they really nailed the sound on the Z1. I think this is the first time I had the thought popped into my head that it would be nice if KZ took this driver and tuning and put it in a pair of budget IEMs.  I like how it sounds, and it would be a shame that once the battery can't hold a charge anymore, it would become a paperweight.

but i'm pretty sure they have a lot more TWS in the pipeline. This is a good stepping stone for them, now they can take this driver and tuning and maybe with the next version, find a way to fit in a bigger battery,USB-C charging, and what not. haha


----------



## d3myz

howdy said:


> Did you ever own the Tevis? I thought I remember you had those once upon a time. Im up to 7 now and hopefully i dont have any more itches for anymore,(with the exception of the new Bose if the damn thing ever gets released).


Funny you should mention those, I just bought some off ebay for $60. I haven't used them since before the app and firmware updates came out, so i'm excited to hear how the sound quality has changed. My biggest complaint was the lack of bass. I"m waiting for the new Panasonic/Technics, I think there were 2-3 other buds due out by the end of the year that have ANC/Transpanency is the Bose one of those?


----------



## jant71 (May 1, 2020)

Nobody jumping on the ATH-ANC300TW?? Thought there might be since they adjusted the original price and are out now. Some early positives about the SQ of the DLC drivers though I don't remember exactly if there were any comparisons. They are ambient, ANC, aptX, and True Wireless Stereo for $229 which might be fine if the SQ is good enough. Of course AT prices drop so might pay to wait till they are $200 or less.


----------



## jwong

chevybit said:


> From all cheap TWS I tried and tested so far (and I tried a lot from AliExpress), QCY T5 comes very close to an all-round package.
> 
> I'm waiting for the QCY T4 to arrive soon, which has an app with EQ.
> 
> ...



I wasn't fond of the QCY T5 at all and sent them back pretty quickly. With all the love they get here it makes me wonder if I never got the fit right or something?

Among cheap TWS, I've really liked both my last two purchases, the Bomaker Sifi and Tranya B530. The Tranya at the recent Amazon deal of $20 was an absolute steal! It's not perfect, but it's my favorite currently.


----------



## voicemaster

DynamicEars said:


> Thanks for your quick and prompt reply. Better than zsx timbre is quite something, and blew off zsn pro. Decent bass and everything else as a bonus. Seems like KZ nail the TWS with Z1. I dont mind 2 hours (and can be recharge with the case) for the great sound quality. Damn


You should wait for Z2, just so you know KZ release iems like every month or two with more features and upgraded stuffs.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

d3myz said:


> I currently own:
> Liberty 2 Pro ver. 3, Tranya Rimor, B530 and T3, FIIL T1X, Sony XM3, Ear Fun Free, Tronsmart Spunky Beats, 1more Stylish, Anbes 359/SSK BT01, Mpow T5/M5, Mavin Air-XR. QCY T1 and T1 pro, Chisana C1L, Lystar J29, AirPods Pro, Tiso i4. They are all great pretty great for different things. I have a lot of impressions in this thread of each pair.
> 
> I also have the Jabra 75T coming tomorrow. I have pretty much phased out earbuds that don't have ambient/transparency mode as I work at home and have small children, so I'm pretty much always having to take them in and out and it drives me nuts. IMHO and from what I've heard, The Echo buds and the N6/pro were some of the best TWS's i've heard sound quality wise besides the XM3, then maybe the FIIL T1x, Anbes 359. Honorable mention to the Stylish and Air-XR with EQing. I also had the M&D MW07 and I thought it was nice, but the FIIL T1x was better to me, especially for the money. I've had my eye on the Aviot TE-D01b, but it's been a while since i've been active on here and I haven't read much feedback about them. Granted I don't EQ my earbuds, I use an iphone and just stick them in and go.
> ...



Thanks for that!  I did actually order the Fiil T1x at the same time as the N6Pro, but they we're backordered until 5/15 so not here yet.

The WF-1000XM3 reviews on Amazon have been putting me off trying them, and I would get the refurbished ones for a great price except that it seems that sometimes they arrive stinky or dirty, and I don't someone else Coronavirus coming into my house on the XM3. Also, the reviews for the new XM3 are not any better than for the refurbished ones. And, at $230 for a new pair of XM3, I might rather spring for the MTW2, maybe returning the T1x to help pay the difference in cost.


----------



## dw13

jant71 said:


> Nobody jumping on the ATH-ANC300TW?? Thought there might be since they adjusted the original price and are out now. Some early positives about the SQ of the DLC drivers though I don't remember exactly if there were any comparisons. They are ambient, ANC, aptX, and True Wireless Stereo for $229 which might be fine if the SQ is good enough. Of course AT prices drop so might pay to wait till they are $200 or less.


Just ordered the ATH-ANC300TW to replace my Sony WF-1000xm3 which, sadly, took an inadvertent bath.  I really liked the sound of the Sony's but did not care for the fit, even with foam ear tips.  I'm hoping for improved ANC with the Audio-Technica's.  We shall see.


----------



## turbobb

jwong said:


> I wasn't fond of the QCY T5 at all and sent them back pretty quickly. With all the love they get here it makes me wonder if I never got the fit right or something?
> 
> Among cheap TWS, I've really liked both my last two purchases, the Bomaker Sifi and Tranya B530. The Tranya at the recent Amazon deal of $20 was an absolute steal! It's not perfect, but it's my favorite currently.



I had trouble getting a good seal on the T5's but I slapped on a set of SpinFit CP350's and was able to get a pretty good seal. To my ears, the Bomaker's are easily better than T5's in SQ, but where the T5 really shines (and the specific use case I purchased them for) is the low latency gaming mode without need for aptX LL. They really are pretty good and maybe just a hair behind aptX LL, but suits my needs just fine for video editing purposes.


----------



## jwong

turbobb said:


> I had trouble getting a good seal on the T5's but I slapped on a set of SpinFit CP350's and was able to get a pretty good seal. To my ears, the Bomaker's are easily better than T5's in SQ, but where the T5 really shines (and the specific use case I purchased them for) is the low latency gaming mode without need for aptX LL. They really are pretty good and maybe just a hair behind aptX LL, but suits my needs just fine for video editing purposes.



I _think_ I tried them with spiral dots, but I found the controls fiddly and annoying, so I didn't spend a lot of time. They weren't awful, but I wouldn't rank them high even among cheap iems. I always use over ear headphones if I'm gaming, but that seems a legit reason to keep them around.


----------



## erockg

dw13 said:


> Just ordered the ATH-ANC300TW to replace my Sony WF-1000xm3 which, sadly, took an inadvertent bath.  I really liked the sound of the Sony's but did not care for the fit, even with foam ear tips.  I'm hoping for improved ANC with the Audio-Technica's.  We shall see.


Just ordered a pair as well.  Going to compare them to my MTW2.  We shall see...


----------



## erockg

TYATYA said:


> Do you find 3.0 has longer delay than 2.0?
> My smart phone allow to connect and sound simultanously both E8 pairs.
> I put on my ears a R of 2.0 and a L of 3.0 then I know that thing.
> Strange!


I actually returned mine and stuck with the MTW2, which were cheaper and have ANC.  They fit my needs better.  I didn't notice a longer delay.  Very strange for sure.


----------



## IEManiac

WesennTony said:


> What do you think of them? Mine are still on the way...


I think they are pretty good. Battery lasts forever. Seems like I am the only one who owns them...


----------



## IEManiac

turbobb said:


> I had trouble getting a good seal on the T5's but I slapped on a set of SpinFit CP350's and was able to get a pretty good seal. To my ears, the Bomaker's are easily better than T5's in SQ, but where the T5 really shines (and the specific use case I purchased them for) is the low latency gaming mode without need for aptX LL. They really are pretty good and maybe just a hair behind aptX LL, but suits my needs just fine for video editing purposes.


My kid agrees with you regarding the latency mode on the T5.


----------



## voicemaster

erockg said:


> Just ordered a pair as well.  Going to compare them to my MTW2.  We shall see...


Just ordered a pair too. God this hobby is bad. Bad for the wallet.


----------



## howdy

d3myz said:


> Funny you should mention those, I just bought some off ebay for $60. I haven't used them since before the app and firmware updates came out, so i'm excited to hear how the sound quality has changed. My biggest complaint was the lack of bass. I"m waiting for the new Panasonic/Technics, I think there were 2-3 other buds due out by the end of the year that have ANC/Transpanency is the Bose one of those?


If you like spinfits, I highly recommend the CP-360 w/the Tevis.


----------



## TYATYA

erockg said:


> I actually returned mine and stuck with the MTW2, which were cheaper and have ANC.  They fit my needs better.  I didn't notice a longer delay.  Very strange for sure.


I vote 1 star for E8 gen3 while 4 for gen2.
Gen3 has more bug than gen2 : L mute by chance(not so frequence), ambient activate moment will boost up volume if playing a track. Tone test found tons of noise from 7khz and above... I can say it can not produce a sing tone any higher than 7k!
But, it did not come to complex tone any meaning. Strange!

Sound sig is change toward 1000xm3, still be rich and spacious sound like gen2. So, like a gen2 with a little bass tigh controlled.
By this thing I did not return gen3.


----------



## erockg

TYATYA said:


> I vote 1 star for E8 gen3 while 4 for gen2.
> Gen3 has more bug than gen2 : L mute by chance(not so frequence), ambient activate moment will boost up volume if playing a track. Tone test found tons of noise from 7khz and above... I can say it can not produce a sing tone any higher than 7k!
> But, it did not come to complex tone any meaning. Strange!
> 
> ...


I had zero issues with the Beoplay E8 3g using an iPhone 11 pro max.  They did issue a firmware update that helped the Passthrough mode while I had them.  That said, I do like my MTW2 better.  If the Beoplay E8 3g come down in price, I might revisit.


----------



## SilverEars (May 1, 2020)

How come no discussion of the new Pixel Buds?


thimantha said:


> Pixel Buds TWS are here!


Yeah, I saw this floating around.  The best TWS design I've seen yet.  I really like the look of the just a white dot as the earpiece.  Terrific looking design.  Too bad no ANC, and no idea about sound.


----------



## chinmie

SilverEars said:


> How come no discussion of the new Pixel Buds?
> Yeah, I saw this floating around.  The best TWS design I've seen yet.  I really like the look of the just a white dot as the earpiece.  Terrific looking design.  Too bad no ANC, and no idea about sound.



Might be because no one here have acquired it yet. It does look interesting, although the battery spec is a bit on the low end in today's standard.
If you like the look, wearing the galaxy buds also looks similar on the ears, though smaller.


----------



## SilverEars (May 1, 2020)

chinmie said:


> Might be because no one here have acquired it yet. It does look interesting, although the battery spec is a bit on the low end in today's standard.
> If you like the look, wearing the galaxy buds also looks similar on the ears, though smaller.


I liked the sturdiness and feel of Galaxy buds in the ear, but if I compare strictly in terms of design, Pixel Buds just comes up on top.  There's nothing that looks like it, and the minimalist design is so strikingly good looking and original.  The design was what really stood out when I first saw it on a review.  So far, I've not really considered looks of TWS to be great designs until I saw this one.  This design seems more fitting for Apple to put out as Apple tend to put out minimalistic designs.


----------



## chinmie

SilverEars said:


> I liked the sturdiness and feel of Galaxy buds in the ear, but if I compare strictly in terms of design, Pixel Buds just comes up on top.  There's nothing that looks like it, and the minimalist design is so strikingly good looking and original.  The design was what really stood out when I first saw it on a review.  So far, I've not really considered looks of TWS to be great designs until I saw this one.  This design seems more fitting for Apple to put out as Apple tend to put out minimalistic designs.



Yup. At first when i use these TWSs, i prefer the small and most stealthy look possible, so no one would notice I'm  wearing it. But as experience goes, most people would engage in conversation with me without knowing I'm using a TWS, so i have to awkwardly remove one and ask the to repeat themselves..

Nowadays as TWS has become the norm in society anyways, i kinda prefer the XM3's big and visible look, as it screams "don't  bother me, I'm listening to something right now"


----------



## d3myz

HeadphoneAddict said:


> Thanks for that!  I did actually order the Fiil T1x at the same time as the N6Pro, but they we're backordered until 5/15 so not here yet.
> 
> The WF-1000XM3 reviews on Amazon have been putting me off trying them, and I would get the refurbished ones for a great price except that it seems that sometimes they arrive stinky or dirty, and I don't someone else Coronavirus coming into my house on the XM3. Also, the reviews for the new XM3 are not any better than for the refurbished ones. And, at $230 for a new pair of XM3, I might rather spring for the MTW2, maybe returning the T1x to help pay the difference in cost.


This may be an unpopular opinion, but the FIILs sound much different than the XM3. They bring something to the table that you just can't get from the Sony's. I love my Sony's for phone calls, but I hate the ambient sound, it's soo bad. Sounds like i'm in a tunnel every time I use it. I def. think the echo buds, APPs and now the Jabra Elite 75t's which I just got an hour ago, have way better ambient modes. All around sound quality is great, but to me the sony's don't sound as realistic as the FIIL and the N6/N6pro. The XM3's are quite customizable with the app, but what I have noticed is that all the wide bore tips I like just kill the sub bass, so i switched to foam tips and the Auvio tips. Basically i'm saying, keep your FIIL's, they don't have all the features the Sony's do, but they are a sweet TWS.


----------



## thimantha

SilverEars said:


> How come no discussion of the new Pixel Buds?
> Yeah, I saw this floating around.  The best TWS design I've seen yet.  I really like the look of the just a white dot as the earpiece.  Terrific looking design.  Too bad no ANC, and no idea about sound.



Yeah, I love the design. This must be the first time I liked a white pair of TWSs. Even though I'm not really pumped about the shape of the case, the black case would be okay, I guess.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict (May 2, 2020)

d3myz said:


> This may be an unpopular opinion, but the FIILs sound much different than the XM3. They bring something to the table that you just can't get from the Sony's. I love my Sony's for phone calls, but I hate the ambient sound, it's soo bad. Sounds like i'm in a tunnel every time I use it. I def. think the echo buds, APPs and now the Jabra Elite 75t's which I just got an hour ago, have way better ambient modes. All around sound quality is great, but to me the sony's don't sound as realistic as the FIIL and the N6/N6pro. The XM3's are quite customizable with the app, but what I have noticed is that all the wide bore tips I like just kill the sub bass, so i switched to foam tips and the Auvio tips. Basically i'm saying, keep your FIIL's, they don't have all the features the Sony's do, but they are a sweet TWS.



Looking forward to the N6Pro (working) and to trying the FIIL T1X. Actually, another great "realistic" sounding budget TWS is the Pamu Scroll, which I got on Indegogo back in October 2018 for $45. They are simply Amazing for the price, and better sounding than the Crazy Baby Air that cost a bit more (and I lost the Air).

My main complaint is that the scroll case is larger than I'd like for my pocket, and they have similar battery drain issues as my MTW, where if you don't use them for a while and you go to use them you will the battery will be depleted. They do have a neat wireless Qi adapter that plugs into the micro-USB so you can leave them sitting on a desktop wireless charger to top them off (but it stands upright and can topple over if you bump the table).

My APP have fantastic ambient mode and ANC, but just like to fall out or make my ear canals itch too easily. The other problem is that with the 2C54 firmware they sound bad without ANC or Ambient mode turned on, where using them in passive plain Jane mode worse sound quality after the update (more bland and dull unless ANC or transparency is turned on, and they get more lively with more bass EQ). Even then, the MTW are simply better sounding - more transparent and more spacious.

 [edit - mode NOT models, thanks autocorrupt]


----------



## bronco1015

SilverEars said:


> How come no discussion of the new Pixel Buds?
> Yeah, I saw this floating around.  The best TWS design I've seen yet.  I really like the look of the just a white dot as the earpiece.  Terrific looking design.  Too bad no ANC, and no idea about sound.


haven't watched MR Mobile's review, but i have read a couple reviews from sites that dable in audio reviews but mostly do phone/tablet reviews. i feel like they described he sound as just meh. All the reviews, all 3 i've seen i mean, spend a lot mor time talking about the google assistent features, wireless charging etc. curious what people start saying once mor have them. i get 25% off google products through my work, and that's even though it isn't much of a factor, is the biggest one working in the pixelbuds2020's favor for me lol.


----------



## AudioNoob

Most reviews noted that pixel buds were designed to be non sealing like non-inears/earbuds which is interesting and makes me curious about the sound profile.


----------



## alleroy

Would Earin M2 be a wasted/exaggerated companion for a Samsung Galaxy S10e source? Any suggestion for a possibly more balanced purchase?


----------



## SilverEars (May 2, 2020)

thimantha said:


> Yeah, I love the design. This must be the first time I liked a white pair of TWSs. Even though I'm not really pumped about the shape of the case, the black case would be okay, I guess.


Given their color scheme with the white circle dot over the black body, it looks like a white sphere is suspended in the ear from a distance, I think it looks cool.  It doesn't have too much design is what I like.  Minimalist designs usually lasts.  But, TWS batteries do not.. lol

I like the shape of the case, but it seems to have a lot of bulk as the earpieces do not take up that much room.

I just wonder how it would look in the ear if it was completely black?

There's also the new Galaxy Buds X leaks.  Interesting design with the compact bean shape, and would be interesting how good Samsung's ANC would be. The only problem I see so far is, it doesn't utilize any isolation tips.  Big no no for me.

It was inevitable Samsung would come up with a AirPods Pro rival product.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.to...-x-have-noise-cancellation-for-dollar100-less

It would be interesting if this bean shape design shell can be customed for each ear, because I foresee the size to be very flush, being super compact.  I've seen some really tiny hearing aids.

And where is Bose and their NC 700 TWS currently?


----------



## tma6

Ooooh very interesting!

https://www.linsoul.com/pages/tin-hifi-t2000


----------



## clerkpalmer

SilverEars said:


> And where is Bose and their NC 700 TWS currently?



Good question. A month ago they blamed Covid for the delay and while there may be some truth to this, it seems like manufacturing in China has largely recovered. This is the 1 tws i am really anxiously awaiting but bose doesn't have the greatest track record on delivering products on time. I mean these were announced a year ago right? Cnet ran a story about them when covid hit back in March and it didn't sound like they were coming any time soon. 

I haven't been following as much as usual but have been pretty satisfied with my MTW2. Anything out there that would be worth looking at as an improvement? Seems like the answer is no. I did have the N6pro but they failed on me and I don't love the fit.


----------



## clerkpalmer

tma6 said:


> Ooooh very interesting!
> 
> https://www.linsoul.com/pages/tin-hifi-t2000


Nice find. Definitely interested in those.


----------



## martiniCZ

chevybit said:


> Hi,
> 
> I recently received the SoundPeats TrueDot. I'm a bit disappointed as the bass is overwhelming. With a bit of EQ they sound good, but nothing great.
> 
> ...


Yes, lows are bit boosted, in my case it's not so bad, only about 3-5dB, probably I had more luck. Don't you have a front vent covered by something? A few pages back, I mentioned the influence of the filter grid to the sound on them. Try removing the mesh, maybe it will help you, the sound is then more opened and detailed. The stock mesh is too fine and filters out part of the spectrum over 10kHz. The worst is that it clogs with sweat and earwax very quickly and TrueDots then sounds too warm and dark to my taste. Mesh can be easily removed with the needle and put back at any time, there is only a little self adhesive on the edge. I have to admit that TrueDot sometimes doesn't excel in sound clarity, maybe I'm weird, but I still prefer the soud signature of Tronsmart OnyxNeo, shame that almost everything else is bad on them


----------



## d3myz

Will i've been using the Jabra 75T since yesterday afternoon. Few thoughts. This is a well made TWS, excellent software and customization for calls and prett good EQ. Sound quality is good, but very Polarizing. Lots of bass, mids are good and the highs are sparkly at neutral music. With audiobooks I noticed some semblance with one or two books with female narrators who have higher voices, could just be my audible, i'll keep checking but I have to turn the treble down to avoid it . Calls and pass through are excellent, better than the echo buds, XM3's and I think they tie with the APPs although they do give more passive isolation so it does feel like your ears are still a bit plugged, but I think i'm actually hearing just as well if not better, Major Kudos. The call Quality is the best i've ever experienced on a TWS. I have a really bassy voice so I turned the treble setting on for my calls and the 3 different people I talked to said it sounded Excellent. Here's the Thorn. I think I read this somewhere as well, but when I double click Siri to text or call, the left earbud doesn't reinitilize and I end up on a phone call with the right bud only. The passthrough mode will stay on sometimes, other times the bud just becomes completely unresponsive and I have to put both buds back in the case for 3+ minutes to get it working again. I did notice that when I turn on "Prioritize Bluetooth device with call" I stopped having the issue. I really, really like these buds, they are super comfortable and sound isolation is really good, but something seems off. Going to grab a brand new pair and see if I have the same issues.


----------



## SilverEars (May 2, 2020)

I've noticed that these beam mics on TWS depends on level of ambient noise.  Quality quickly goes south if there is a significant level of ambient noise.  The mic that I know that performs supremely in heavy ambient noise is full sized Bose NC 700.  This is something I'd like to see more common with TWS mic performances.

I wonder if it's partly the placement of the mics when comparing to NC 700?  TWS mic are in the ear area, too far away to pickup the bulk sound waves that's pushed forward.  NC 700 cups are large and the mic is closer.

Can it mainly be Bose's innovative solutions in a high performing mic system?  Can this be applied to TWS?


----------



## eiraku (May 2, 2020)

SilverEars said:


> I've noticed that these beam mics on TWS depends on level of ambient noise.  Quality quickly goes south if there is a significant level of ambient noise.  The mic that I know that performs supremely in heavy ambient noise is full sized Bose NC 700.  This is something I'd like to see more common with TWS mic performances.
> 
> I wonder if it's partly the placement of the mics when comparing to NC 700?  TWS mic are in the ear area, too far away to pickup the bulk sound waves that's pushed forward.  NC 700 cups are large and the mic is closer.
> 
> Can it mainly be Bose's innovative solutions in a high performing mic system?  Can this be applied to TWS?



Yep it's absolutely the placement of the beamforming mics. For my L2Ps, there are explicit instructions to "aim the mics towards mouth", though more often than not, wearing them in the most comfortable position does not result in the mics being "aimed" dead center towards where it needs to be - as I found that there's quite a lot of leeway in turning the L2Ps around for best fit.

Hence why I think we see variations in reviews between folks saying the L2P mic is "fine" and folks saying it's "absolute garbage" (personally I find it to be somewhere in the middle lol).

Also, I wonder if the TWS makers have access to manipulate the "mic noise suppression" parameters on the chipsets that they use. For example, I do find the L2P to sometimes be overly sensitive to noise that it simply suppresses too much under heavy environmental noise and muffles the user's voice as a result.

On the other hand, the COAs are a bit noisier under similar conditions, but they also let slightly more of the user's voice to peek through.

Which is pretty interesting considering that they both use the QCC3020 chipset (AFAIK anyway), though I've also heard that SC has customised/adjusted theirs a lot more.

Though, due to the shape of the COAs, there's not much variation in the way you can wear it (and thus aim the mics) in the first place - so it might just be that (see my first point).

Or something lol.


----------



## d3myz

HeadphoneAddict said:


> Looking forward to the N6Pro (working) and to trying the FIIL T1X. Actually, another great "realistic" sounding budget TWS is the Pamu Scroll, which I got on Indegogo back in October 2018 for $45. They are simply Amazing for the price, and better sounding than the Crazy Baby Air that cost a bit more (and I lost the Air).
> 
> My main complaint is that the scroll case is larger than I'd like for my pocket, and they have similar battery drain issues as my MTW, where if you don't use them for a while and you go to use them you will the battery will be depleted. They do have a neat wireless Qi adapter that plugs into the micro-USB so you can leave them sitting on a desktop wireless charger to top them off (but it stands upright and can topple over if you bump the table).
> 
> My APP have fantastic ambient mode and ANC, but just like to fall out or make my ear canals itch too easily. The other problem is that with the 2C54 firmware they sound bad without ANC or Ambient mode turned on, where using them in passive plain Jane models worse sound quality after the update (more bland and dull unless ANC or transparency is turned on, and they get more lively with more bass EQ). Even then, the MTW are simply better sounding - more transparent and more spacious.


I hear you on the APPs. i'm on my 3rd pair. They Quality Control really sucks on them. My first pair had the newer firmware and it was awful. The last two are still on the old firmware and the ANC is fantastic, so is the Transparency. I bought some aftermarket silicon and foam tips from Ali Express and They seem to fit better than the stock tips. I also own the Pamu Scroll, I haven't listened to it in a long time but I remember I didn't like how veiled the highs were, The touch sensors were too sensitive and they don't turn off w/o the case. For the price they were pretty great, but the design hurt my ear after about 30 min.


----------



## d3myz

tma6 said:


> Ooooh very interesting!
> 
> https://www.linsoul.com/pages/tin-hifi-t2000


Those look very interesting! Not the best looking form factor, but i'll bet they'll sound great. I love my Tin Audio T2's!


----------



## tma6

d3myz said:


> Those look very interesting! Not the best looking form factor, but i'll bet they'll sound great. I love my Tin Audio T2's!



Tin T2s are great. Yeah also no mention of mic or codec quality, will have to wait and see. Apparently will start at around $90-100 for early bird price.


----------



## jant71

Though, if your familiar with the connectors and bi-flanges you can tell these are pretty big boys. Hope they keep themselves in when on the move. Stability may not be their strong suit. 

Case as well...



Does that come out? Whats with that? Might be such a bitch to wind up that cord esp. if that insert is not removable. 

Course looks like straight in buttons which I don't like as much as a button on top or a side. The 40mah batteries are a concern powering a dual driver. Hope we get at least 5 hours and not a KZ-like 3.5-ish. 

Looks cool but certainly some questions as already brought up.


----------



## eiraku

tma6 said:


> Tin T2s are great. Yeah also no mention of mic or codec quality, will have to wait and see. Apparently will start at around $90-100 for early bird price.



They seem to run on Realteks so maybe not AptX. Probably SBC and AAC as usual.


----------



## Spidermanxd

Any news on the *Klipsch T10*


----------



## DannyBai

I own the original MTW and now have the MTW2. I can say that the sound is still excellent. Main difference I can tell is that the soundstage is smaller. What they fixed from the original makes this one a worthy successor for me since I really love the sound of them.


----------



## clerkpalmer

Spidermanxd said:


> Any news on the *Klipsch T10*



Fall 2020 was the original date.


----------



## Sam L

RobinFood said:


> I'm not sure, I can't wear headphones, they make me feel clostrophobic.
> 
> Etymotics use diffuse field with a slight mids boost as their target. I used Crinacles graph database with my xm3 and tried to EQ it to that.
> 
> My favorite is still my er4s, but the xm3s get really close and it helps open up the soundstage and sharpen the imaging so much.



This need to be highlighted, the fact that the xm3's can be tuned to satisfaction fairly easily. Case in point, here are my headphone xm3's settings:






Don't have a screen shot of my tws xm3 settings, but I adjust clear bass to - 2 and bump 16k another 2 or 3 dB (cause I'm old). 

One thing to remember, the xm3's are faithfully tuned to the Sony house sound - - lots of bass, while at the same time trying to maintain clarity across mids and highs. I think I'm starting to tire of Sony's target curve. Lately, I've turned down the low end on all my Sony headphones and earphones.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict (May 3, 2020)

d3myz said:


> I hear you on the APPs. i'm on my 3rd pair. They Quality Control really sucks on them. My first pair had the newer firmware and it was awful. The last two are still on the old firmware and the ANC is fantastic, so is the Transparency. I bought some aftermarket silicon and foam tips from Ali Express and They seem to fit better than the stock tips. I also own the Pamu Scroll, I haven't listened to it in a long time but I remember I didn't like how veiled the highs were, The touch sensors were too sensitive and they don't turn off w/o the case. For the price they were pretty great, but the design hurt my ear after about 30 min.



I don't think the Pamu Scroll highs are veiled so much as they are very slightly recessed. What strikes me most about the Pamu Scroll is that they are fairly transparent and uncolored, without any boxy or closed in sound or metallic timbre like some cheaper buds. They remind me of my MTW.

As for APP, by the time I decided the 2C54 firmware was too much of an issue for me the Corona virus was keeping me hiding out at home, and I'd like to get them exchanged under the warranty without using one of my 2 accidental damage claims with AppleCare+. I do not want to deal with email exchange with AppleCare, and would prefer to do it in person, but I've convinced myself that by the time it is safe to go into the Apple stores we will have a new firmware. I know I'm an easy mark.

I got the N6Pro replacements a day early today, and I charged them up and paired them with my iPhone 11 Pro Max about 20 minutes ago. In the pairing process, when the iPhone pop up asked me to pair the other side, it didn't show the earbud name, and paired it as "headset", while the left one that I'd manually paired to start the process was named "NUARL N6PRO-L".

I turned BT off and on a couple of times, and it stayed named "headset". I doubled clicked the Rt main button and it went into pairing mode, then I tapped on "headset" in my iPhone BT prefs, and it automatically renamed the "headset" to "NUARL N6PRO-R" and connected, with left as slave. It's all working fine now.

They sound pretty good before burn-in, with only a slight hint of sharp treble that should smooth out with about 24+ hours of music. The treble is not bright or sibilant, just slightly edgy sometimes, and only mildly so. The sound is crisp and detailed, rendering acoustic guitar overtones quite well. The midrange, and big air and space is pretty good, and vocals from Jackson Browne and Jack Johnson are rich and present, maybe even better than my MTW mids (will have to compare after burn-in)? They have more bass than I was expecting from the reviews I've seen here, so I won't be disappointed at all. I don't hear any driver flex when inserting them into my ear canals quickly with a tight seal.

I also think they have a bit better passive isolation than my MTW. Unfortunately this makes it hard to talk with them in, because I hear my voice rumbling deep and low inside my head when I talk during a phone call - much worse than with my MTW with transparency mode on, or my APP. These will NOT be the ones I wear while walking around in this world, but would be the ones I can use in the safety of my home when I'm alone and want to tune things out and read a good book with music, with no wires to hang me up. PS: My wife says I sound fine on a phone call with her.


----------



## FYLegend

Jabees has a new version of the Firefly.2 which has touch controls instead of buttons, currently 30% off 99$ USD. Not sure if they changed anything else (having used the Firefly Pro, I would like to see a true USB-C connection among other things...)



tma6 said:


> Ooooh very interesting!
> 
> https://www.linsoul.com/pages/tin-hifi-t2000


Interesting, but I doubt they will have controls for volume or even play-pause. They also seem to be cable-down rather than over-ear/negative fit which means the stems would be more obvious.


----------



## voicemaster

HeadphoneAddict said:


> I don't think the Pamu Scroll highs are veiled so much as they are very slightly recessed. What strikes me most about the Pamu Scroll is that they are fairly transparent and uncolored, without any boxy or closed in sound or metallic timbre like some cheaper buds. They remind me of my MTW.
> 
> As for APP, by the time I decided the 2C54 firmware was too much of an issue for me the Corona virus was keeping me hiding out at home, and I'd like to get them exchanged under the warranty without using one of my 2 accidental damage claims with AppleCare+. I do not want to deal with email exchange with AppleCare, and would prefer to do it in person, but I've convinced myself that by the time it is safe to go into the Apple stores we will have a new firmware. I know I'm an easy mark.
> 
> ...


The bass will lessen a bit and same with the treble harshness. They have pretty good call quality and I usually only wear one side when doing phone call.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict (May 3, 2020)

voicemaster said:


> The *bass will lessen* a bit and same with the treble harshness. They have pretty good call quality and I usually only wear one side when doing phone call.



But, but, I don't want the bass to lessen a little 

For d3myz - I grabbed the Pamu Scroll which are my bedside TWS, and I stand by my thoughts - the details are not veiled to me and they have nice air and space. I find them to have a nice transparent sound with a good balance of bass, mids and treble. The treble is just slightly recessed to me, which makes them work better with poor recordings, but despite my 58 yr old ears I have not thought about EQing more treble lately.. The PaMu charging case size, while round, is about as wide and deep as the N6pro case, but at least 1.5x the length of the N6Pro.

And yes, with PaMu it is easy to pause the music when trying to re-adjust them in your ears, so that they don't apply pressure to sensitive parts of the ears..


----------



## Synthy

looks like my galaxy buds have died on me. the left bud is extremely low volume, almost no sound at all, and every thing i've tried (careful cleaning of every ingress, hard reset, software update) hasn't helped. it has been close to a year.

i got the Shanling MTW100 as a cheap tws in the meantime (and it does have a Knowles BA in it, which is nice), the issue i'm having with it is the stem and tips are all very short, too short in fact for me to get a good seal, and almost every other tip i've tried on them that would be long enough makes them not fit in the case. i'm trying them with the tips from the galaxy buds, which might be just barely long enough to get a seal and just barely short enough to work in the case, but they are tips that i'm not a huge fan of in the first place, the hole is strangely super small.



eiraku said:


> BTW, last time I heard someone was gonna order the Astrotec S90 Pros to try them out? Whatever happened to that?
> 
> I kinda can get them for the price of the Edifier TWS NB here where I am, and that twin BA setup is pretty intriguing TBH.
> 
> Of course, no EQ app or ambient passthrough or ANC or anything like that, though the case does QI which is pretty nice to have (I'm spoiled by the L2P case lol).



that was me, hifigo just finally shipped them out yesterday, so it'll still be a bit till they get here.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict (May 3, 2020)

I took put down the Pamu Scroll and went back to the N6Pro for a bit. When I used the iPhone Music on-screen volume slider to slide the volume up and down, I heard the left ear bud volume change out of sync with the right, so that it seemed like the channel balance was changing. The master volume changes faster than the slave volume when using the on-screen slider, but not when using the volume buttons on the side of the phone.

WHAT WAS VERY STRANGE WAS that if I would slide the volume up and down too fast, to explore this "feature", then the buds freak out. The left earbud made a lawn mower engine sound for a couple of seconds, which stopped, and then the left ear bud said "connected". This is repeatable, but some of the time they are not really connected.

Also the N6Pro still push against or apply pressure to the tragus of my ears, just like the Pamu Scroll. Only time will tell if they become irritating to wear for long periods (pic is not my ear).


----------



## TooFrank

erockg said:


> I had zero issues with the Beoplay E8 3g using an iPhone 11 pro max.  They did issue a firmware update that helped the Passthrough mode while I had them.  That said, I do like my MTW2 better.  If the Beoplay E8 3g come down in price, I might revisit.


I’m pretty happy with the e8 3g. Much better than the 1g and sometimes better than the XM3s.Have not experienced any issues. However, curious about the MTW2s. Will if be possible for you to put some words on what you like better compared with the e8 3g?


----------



## voicemaster

HeadphoneAddict said:


> But, but, I don't want the bass to lessen a little
> 
> For d3myz - I grabbed the Pamu Scroll which are my bedside TWS, and I stand by my thoughts - the details are not veiled to me and they have nice air and space. I find them to have a nice transparent sound with a good balance of bass, mids and treble. The treble is just slightly recessed to me, which makes them work better with poor recordings, but despite my 58 yr old ears I have not thought about EQing more treble lately.. The PaMu charging case size, while round, is about as wide and deep as the N6pro case, but at least 1.5x the length of the N6Pro.
> 
> And yes, with PaMu it is easy to pause the music when trying to re-adjust them in your ears, so that they don't apply pressure to sensitive parts of the ears..


Its not lessen more like tightened.


----------



## assassin10000

Sam L said:


> This need to be highlighted, the fact that the xm3's can be tuned to satisfaction fairly easily. Case in point, here are my headphone xm3's settings:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



This is what I ended up with, more neutral or vocal focused.


----------



## SilverEars (May 3, 2020)

TooFrank said:


> I’m pretty happy with the e8 3g. Much better than the 1g and sometimes better than the XM3s.Have not experienced any issues. However, curious about the MTW2s. Will if be possible for you to put some words on what you like better compared with the e8 3g?


I saw the Sound response curve on Rtings and look horrendous.

Minidisk's impression was that the treble was aleviated, but that obviously isn't true on the graph. The two spikes scares me off like a little squirrl back to my safety tree. I get a feeling it will be like M&D treble, but worse.  That 7k looks so painful!

https://www.rtings.com/headphones/reviews/b-o-play/e8-3-0-true-wireless



Rting's description of the treble.  "The E8 3.0's treble accuracy is mediocre. There's a dip in low treble, making notes in this range dull and recessed. However, a high spike in the mid-treble sound overly bright and piercing, especially on sibilants (such as S and T sounds)."

The last bit is exactly what 7k boost does, but I say mainly T sounds.  It emphasizes it like a Mofo.  Look it how drastic it is on that graph, and it's spiking up rather than down (which it's suppose to be at 7k).


----------



## bronco1015

HeadphoneAddict said:


> I don't think the Pamu Scroll highs are veiled so much as they are very slightly recessed. What strikes me most about the Pamu Scroll is that they are fairly transparent and uncolored, without any boxy or closed in sound or metallic timbre like some cheaper buds. They remind me of my MTW.
> 
> As for APP, by the time I decided the 2C54 firmware was too much of an issue for me the Corona virus was keeping me hiding out at home, and I'd like to get them exchanged under the warranty without using one of my 2 accidental damage claims with AppleCare+. I do not want to deal with email exchange with AppleCare, and would prefer to do it in person, but I've convinced myself that by the time it is safe to go into the Apple stores we will have a new firmware. I know I'm an easy mark.
> 
> ...


Great that they're working. That slightly harsh treble is exactly what i was refering to when i mentioned these do well with a little burn in.


----------



## clerkpalmer

Maybe off topic maybe not. Can anyone recommend something good for road cycling? I tried my mtw2 with transparency on but the wind noise even at low speeds was brutal. Recommendations appreciated even if not strictly tws


----------



## dw13

clerkpalmer said:


> Maybe off topic maybe not. Can anyone recommend something good for road cycling? I tried my mtw2 with transparency on but the wind noise even at low speeds was brutal. Recommendations appreciated even if not strictly tws


The Sony WF-1000XM3 are really good at wind noise reduction.


----------



## RobinFood

clerkpalmer said:


> Maybe off topic maybe not. Can anyone recommend something good for road cycling? I tried my mtw2 with transparency on but the wind noise even at low speeds was brutal. Recommendations appreciated even if not strictly tws



Sabbat x12 with the half in ear style is the best for that. Everything dependant on microphones for awareness will have some kind of wind noise.


----------



## Fat Larry

Forgive me for asking but i don't have time to read all of a 1400 page thread in the hopes of finding the answer. Are we at a stage where a BT connection can compete with a good cable in terms of audio quality yet?


----------



## bronco1015

Fat Larry said:


> Forgive me for asking but i don't have time to read all of a 1400 page thread in the hopes of finding the answer. Are we at a stage where a BT connection can compete with a good cable in terms of audio quality yet?


I wish all my True Wireless iems sounded as good as my HD800S. W'ere definitely not at that point of course. Also there are plenty of crap cables out there, what are some cables or maybe iems as well you might be looking for a comparison on?


----------



## Sam L

assassin10000 said:


> This is what I ended up with, more neutral or vocal focused.


Not too different from mine. Just snapped a screen shot of my xm3 tws settings


----------



## clerkpalmer (May 3, 2020)

Fat Larry said:


> Forgive me for asking but i don't have time to read all of a 1400 page thread in the hopes of finding the answer. Are we at a stage where a BT connection can compete with a good cable in terms of audio quality yet?



In short, no I don't think so. But the better question is how close is it and are the trade offs worth it. Purely sq, no. But if you start adding convenience to the equation, the gap narrows.  TWS has come a long way and sq has improved significantly. But I'd never pick wireless over wired for my desktop setup. Similarly, I haven't used wires in the gym in 5 years or more because the wireless sq is very very good and close enough to wired ill accept the small drop off for convenience. So it depends on your needs and expectations.


----------



## chinmie

Fat Larry said:


> Forgive me for asking but i don't have time to read all of a 1400 page thread in the hopes of finding the answer. Are we at a stage where a BT connection can compete with a good cable in terms of audio quality yet?



it all depends on the file and quality of the DAC/Amp that you're using for the wired for comparison. 
if strictly listening to streaming like Spotify, then the difference might be really small. if we only using the amp of the phone, then the bluetooths might in fact have the upper edge. 

all of these are of course debatable, because what counts as higher audio quality might differ from person to person, and from experience with my group of friends, some might mix audio quality with their tuning preferences, price of the unit, etc.. so it's all subjective


----------



## chinmie

Sam L said:


> Not too different from mine. Just snapped a screen shot of my xm3 tws settings



this is mine


----------



## Fat Larry (May 4, 2020)

bronco1015 said:


> I wish all my True Wireless iems sounded as good as my HD800S. W'ere definitely not at that point of course. Also there are plenty of crap cables out there, what are some cables or maybe iems as well you might be looking for a comparison on?



Hmm i am not hugely into the hobby. I use a phone when i'm out and my headphone collection is fairly limited. My main setup is Oriveti New Primacy's (which i like a lot) with a Null Audio Ariete cable. Also have a BGVP 5n 8 core cable that i like, but i don't notice much difference between that and the Ariete in terms of sq.. the differences are from the $100 in price and better mic but the build of Null cable annoys the snot out of me. They use a thick coated wire that requires ear hooks to stay in place and it's never been an enjoyable experience as they just don't stay anchored when i'm moving and are difficult to put on.

One day i want a pair of Beyerdyanic Xelento's which i've seen with a wireless cable, but i does seem odd that a iem of that calibre would compromise it's sq deliberately. I guess that's what the market is demanding.

I don't stream and listen to a mix of high ogg, flac and 320kbps mp3s.


----------



## clerkpalmer (May 4, 2020)

Fat Larry said:


> Hmm i am not hugely into the hobby. I use a phone when i'm out and my headphone collection is fairly limited. My main setup is Oriveti New Primacy's (which i like a lot) with a Null Audio Ariete cable. Also have a BGVP 5n 8 core cable that i like, but i don't notice much difference between that and the Ariete in terms of sq.. the differences are from the $100 in price and better mic but the build of Null cable annoys the snot out of me. They use a thick coated wire that requires ear hooks to stay in place and it's never been an enjoyable experience as they just don't stay anchored when i'm moving and are difficult to put on.
> 
> One day i want a pair of Beyerdyanic Xcellento's which i've seen with a wireless cable, but i does seem odd that a iem of that calibre would compromise it's sq deliberately. I guess that's what the market is demanding.
> 
> I don't stream and listen to a mix of high ogg, flac and 320kbps mp3s.


I owned the wired xelentos. Amazing iems. Pretty sure the consensus was the wireless version were a slight downgrade but still excellent. In any event, this a truly wireless forum not a general BT forum but yes the market is moving toward BT even in the high end space. Both audeze and hifiman offer Bluetooth options because as you say the market demands it. We are still waiting for a high end truly wireless set up however.


----------



## RobinFood

Fat Larry said:


> Forgive me for asking but i don't have time to read all of a 1400 page thread in the hopes of finding the answer. Are we at a stage where a BT connection can compete with a good cable in terms of audio quality yet?



I'd say we have done pretty decent mid-fi level tws that can compete with some hundred dollar IEMs, just nothing that will put a dent in the SQ department of something like the er4, the Andromeda or the z1r.

I feel though that dynamic driver technology is doing great strides. Some of those 6mm drivers sound absolutely amazing.


----------



## Fat Larry (May 4, 2020)

clerkpalmer said:


> I owned the wired xelentos. Amazing iems. Pretty sure the consensus was the wireless version were a slight downgrade but still excellent. In any event, this a truly wireless forum not a general BT forum but yes the market is moving toward BT even in the high end space. Both audeze and hifiman offer Bluetooth options because as you say the market demands its. We are still waiting for a high end truly wireless set up however.



Why did you sell them/what did you replace them with? I tried them a few years ago at Zeppelin and Co (along with everything else in the store) and fell in love with the sound but also the size/comfort/utility.


----------



## clerkpalmer

Fat Larry said:


> Why did you sell them/what did you replace them with? I tried them a few years ago at Zeppelin and Co (along with everything else in the store) and fell in love with the sound but also the size/comfort utility.


Currently using Audeze i3 for critical listening. They are a jack of all trades. Sound amazing with the Cipher cable and a cell phone. Also come with a Bluetooth cable. And can be run wired through your home set up. I see very little reason to try something new. I love that they are technically an iem but they just rest in your ears without deep insertion. Highly recommended.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict (May 4, 2020)

bronco1015 said:


> Great that they're working. That slightly harsh treble is exactly what i was refering to when i mentioned these do well with a little burn in.



I put about 2 hours on the N6P on Saturday night. And I listened for another 6 hours Sunday night until 2AM Monday for bedtime (as I write this now). I've been doing the majority of listening on my MacBook Pro 16" with AptX. The treble already seems to have lost most of the slight edge. The sound is pretty transparent and detailed, and spacious. With some recordings that are almost binaural in nature, like Amanda Palmer Sings the Popular Hits of Radiohead, the ukulele almost sounds like it's in front of me.

Now, when I quickly switch from the N6Pro to the MTW they sound different for sure; but I don't hear a dramatic worsening or improvement in the sound signature that makes me dislike one or the other (regardless of MTW on AptX or SBC). I do hear a more crisp treble with the N6Pro, with slightly less warmth and bass than the MTW, but with a similar spacious soundstage. So yes, the MTW are warmer and more recessed in the treble than the N6Pro, making them darker sounding; but if listening to just one or the other without an immediate A/B comparison it's not really glaring that anything is missing from either one.

But, in quick A/B testing the differences can be more easily heard. If I start out with the MTW they sound great; but after listening for a while and acclimating to the MTW, then when I switch to the N6P the biggest change I notice is the bass is slightly down. If I start out with the N6P they sound great, but when I switch to the MTW after using the N6P for a while then the biggest change I notice right away is the drop in treble, giving me a little darker sound. I also have to turn up the volume on the MacBook from 50% to 60% when I switch from MTW to N6P.

I think the differences might be similar to the differences when switching between a Sennheiser HD600 and and HD650, where the HD600 (N6P) are crisper and less bassy and the HD650 are warmer and darker sounding (MTW). But, like the HD600 the N6P bass is still very good, while like the HD650 the MTW treble in comparison could be a little better - but you don't hear what's missing until you try something else. In that case, my Pamu Scroll are more like the MTW than I realized (sorry d3myz, you might be right). The N6P would be the more flat and accurate ones vs the MTW, but at low volumes the N6P are not as compelling as the MTW at similar low volumes. Yet, the MTW can also sound more laid back and relaxed. Louder volumes energize the N6P more, and the bass kicks in and gets more exciting with electronic music (Martin Garrix, Infected Mushroom, Louis Vivet), assuming the recording doesn't have too much midrange and treble energy for loud listening.

I like that when I take the N6P out, turn them off and then back on, that they connect using AptX right away with my MacBook Pro, while my MTW automatically re-connect with SBC. I have to turn MacBook Bluetooth off and back on, and then manually re-connect the MTW to get them to use AptX. With the MTW there is not a huge difference between AAC, AptX, and SBC performance, and they don't get as detailed as the N6P either way. BUT, this makes the MTW more forgiving of bad recordings. I imagine that my MTW would be less fatiguing than many other TWS, but the N6P are clean enough sounding that they are almost as non-fatiguing as MTW despite having more treble.

I took the N6P out about once and hour for a break, and to let my ears breath, and so far I only have mild tender spots where they make contact with the outside of my ears. The MTW don't push on any parts of my ears that might cause discomfort, and so far are a bit more comfortable to me - like I'm not wearing any IEM at all. I can go a lot longer with the MTW before needing to take a break with them out of my ears, which will be a forced break every 4 hours due to battery life.

The N6P have been going for 6 hours tonight without running out of juice with just intermittent trips to the case for a break. I can only check the charge when connected to my iPhone - over an 8 hour period they spent an intermittent 6 hours in my ears and 2 hours in the case, showing 90% battery after listening for an hour after the last time I took them out of the case.

I think the MTW and N6P are complimentary TWS, where they cover most of the bases for musical genre and listener moods. My biggest complaint about N6P is still the fact that they isolate so well that I cannot have a phone call with them without removing one of them, otherwise the bass of my voice rumbles in my head due to the occlusion and it sounds like I'm talking too loud. Adding a ambient mode would make the N6P so much better.


----------



## vegetaleb

I never used true wireless earphones, the Edifier TWS are good for sports or they will fall off the ears while running?
Are the KZ true wireless better for both SQ and sports?


----------



## eiraku (May 4, 2020)

vegetaleb said:


> I never used true wireless earphones, the Edifier TWS are good for sports or they will fall off the ears while running?
> Are the KZ true wireless better for both SQ and sports?



Which Edifier TWS tho? There's a bunch of them lol.

Though at this moment in time, seems that Edifier is actually churning out a bunch of pretty decent models, even compared to KZ. Their top end (the TWS NB) is actually pretty good I hear, and AFAIK they're winged which might help with fit while doing rigorous activities like running.

But yeah, KZ TWS stuff are mostly on the inexpensive side of things as far as TWSes go so it's not entirely a fair fight.


----------



## vegetaleb

eiraku said:


> Which Edifier TWS tho? There's a bunch of them lol.
> 
> Though at this moment in time, seems that Edifier is actually churning out a bunch of pretty decent models, even compared to KZ. Their top end (the TWS NB) is actually pretty good I hear, and AFAIK they're winged which might help with fit while doing rigorous activities like running.
> 
> But yeah, KZ TWS stuff are mostly on the inexpensive side of things as far as TWSes go so it's not entirely a fair fight.



I think some models of Edifier are under 50$, the X3 would be at 25$ as launching special price. 
I was going to get the KZ aptx hd adapter cable but it looks like it has too much cable for running


----------



## RemoGaggi

tgx78 said:


> Personally i like haylou gt1 plus more than spunky beat


I just ordered the Haylou GT1 Plus on Ebay for $24.99.  It's going to take awhile to here (California), but looking forward to it.


----------



## Rozzko

How much Sony wf-1000m3 better than aipods? In sound quality. I have got AirPods, but thinking about changing on Sony


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

I'm kinda sad nobody likes my bigger posts. Do I need to post a tl;dr version too?


----------



## howdy (May 4, 2020)

I've been jammin to Breaking Benjamin and comparing the Tevis to Sennheiser MTW as I've heard that they have similarities.IMO, I just Don't hear these similarities. I think the MTW are in a whole nother plane then the Tevis.
Don't get me wrong, I still like the Tevis and kept them, but going from one to the other right away, it's night and day difference for me. Love the Senns!! I will have to wait for my MTW1 to crap out before getting the MTW2 though.


----------



## Spidermanxd

Rozzko said:


> How much Sony wf-1000m3 better than aipods? In sound quality. I have got AirPods, but thinking about changing on Sony


Airpods are crap compared m3, the only thing that airpod better are for phone call, but for listening to music I would say m3 a 10, airpod a 3


----------



## howdy

Both of you do mean the Sony WF1000XM3. just want to clarify so other peeps know. And i would like to throw my 2 cents in. I have never heard the Apple airpods but the XM3s are my FAVORITE of all that I've had and have!!!!


----------



## VZWDJ

I have like new in box Mifo 07...if anyone is interested please PM me...Great earbuds...sound...design etc.


----------



## d3myz

HeadphoneAddict said:


> But, but, I don't want the bass to lessen a little
> 
> For d3myz - I grabbed the Pamu Scroll which are my bedside TWS, and I stand by my thoughts - the details are not veiled to me and they have nice air and space. I find them to have a nice transparent sound with a good balance of bass, mids and treble. The treble is just slightly recessed to me, which makes them work better with poor recordings, but despite my 58 yr old ears I have not thought about EQing more treble lately.. The PaMu charging case size, while round, is about as wide and deep as the N6pro case, but at least 1.5x the length of the N6Pro.
> 
> And yes, with PaMu it is easy to pause the music when trying to re-adjust them in your ears, so that they don't apply pressure to sensitive parts of the ears..


You must have some different scrolls than I have. I have a brown carbon pair and a pink pair for my wife and I've gone back to them over and over trying to give them a chance. In fact I just A/B tested them with my new Tevi's. The new version of the Tevi's are remarkable. I'm seriously impressed. The Scroll is bass Heavy and Mid-bass heavy to me, but not that good sub bass with balanced mid bass, it's kind of loose and clumsy. Good response, but the low end seems to just over power the highs, they are def. there, but they are very recessed to me and the mids and high mids are pushed a bit more forward than I like. I think if I eq'd them they would probably be pretty good, but the fact that the don't power off w/o the case, they hurt my ears after wearing them for 15 mins and that the touch sensors are ultra sensitive ruined for me. I have also had a slew of connection issues, but i'm glad you like them!! That's what makes this a great forum!


----------



## d3myz

clerkpalmer said:


> Maybe off topic maybe not. Can anyone recommend something good for road cycling? I tried my mtw2 with transparency on but the wind noise even at low speeds was brutal. Recommendations appreciated even if not strictly tws


I'm really liking the Jabra 75T, had them on with transparency mode with some serious wind going and it wasn't that bothersome, not sure how'd they fair for biking.


----------



## d3myz

Rozzko said:


> How much Sony wf-1000m3 better than aipods? In sound quality. I have got AirPods, but thinking about changing on Sony


I'd say roughly 1000-2000x better. ;-p


----------



## d3myz

HeadphoneAddict said:


> I'm kinda sad nobody likes my bigger posts. Do I need to post a tl;dr version too?


I like them, sorry. i'm playing catch up. You should of seen my activity when I got the N6 and N6pro and L2pro. Difference is my posts are long and idiotic.  Keep it up. Sometimes it feels like your not getting a lot of love here, but some of that has to do with a lot of the TWS' being reviewed ad infinitum. I still like to hear what everyone has to say.


----------



## voicemaster

Rock on with N6 pro.


----------



## d3myz (May 5, 2020)

So I found a new version of the Lypertek Tevi's Like new for $68 shipped on ebay, they arrived today. Some of you may remember that I had a pair prior to the revision and the app and the utter lack of low end left me wanting. It was one of the most disappointing TWS experiences i've had. Beautiful clear, detailed highs and good mids, but literally no low end. Well, I'm happy to report that this new version is Exceptional. Considered me WOW'd @BigZ12 ! Looks like the App is no longer available on app store, which is a bummer, but damn these things sound fantastic. I'm going to keep listening, but as of right now these are in my top 5. They are everything I love about the T1X, but more detailed and less harsh highs. They do have a bit less bass and the mids aren't quite as wide and I do wish there was a bit more mid-bass, but the soundstage is much wider and the detail is busy music is really something. It's been a while since i've listened to a track I hear all the time and have heard something buried in the mix. last thought. The tuning in these reminds me of the N6/N6pro,  except less warm and a bit more exciting. My biggest beef with these is I didn't think they were worth the $80 price tag, well they are now $99 and had I known they sounded this good I would of spent that in a Heartbeat. I think I need to just take the plunge and grab that LG V35 i've been looking at forever so I can tune these bad boys and enjoy them with Aptx.


----------



## chinmie (May 5, 2020)

HeadphoneAddict said:


> But, but, I don't want the bass to lessen a little
> 
> For d3myz - I grabbed the Pamu Scroll which are my bedside TWS, and I stand by my thoughts - the details are not veiled to me and they have nice air and space. I find them to have a nice transparent sound with a good balance of bass, mids and treble. The treble is just slightly recessed to me, which makes them work better with poor recordings, but despite my 58 yr old ears I have not thought about EQing more treble lately.. The PaMu charging case size, while round, is about as wide and deep as the N6pro case, but at least 1.5x the length of the N6Pro.
> 
> And yes, with PaMu it is easy to pause the music when trying to re-adjust them in your ears, so that they don't apply pressure to sensitive parts of the ears..





d3myz said:


> You must have some different scrolls than I have. I have a brown carbon pair and a pink pair for my wife and I've gone back to them over and over trying to give them a chance. In fact I just A/B tested them with my new Tevi's. The new version of the Tevi's are remarkable. I'm seriously impressed. The Scroll is bass Heavy and Mid-bass heavy to me, but not that good sub bass with balanced mid bass, it's kind of loose and clumsy. Good response, but the low end seems to just over power the highs, they are def. there, but they are very recessed to me and the mids and high mids are pushed a bit more forward than I like. I think if I eq'd them they would probably be pretty good, but the fact that the don't power off w/o the case, they hurt my ears after wearing them for 15 mins and that the touch sensors are ultra sensitive ruined for me. I have also had a slew of connection issues, but i'm glad you like them!! That's what makes this a great forum!



the Pamu scroll was the fastest TWS that i had in my possession. it only lasted 2 days before i got rid of it. the sound is so abrasive that it literally made my ears ringing from a short period of using them. i don't know what caused it.. as the tuning itself was quite okay and warmish. 
supports SBC only and the controls are not very good. if i remembered correctly my unit can't go previous track.

the only good thing i can say about it is i can wear it in the shower just fine


----------



## HeadphoneAddict (May 5, 2020)

d3myz said:


> You must have some different scrolls than I have. I have a brown carbon pair and a pink pair for my wife and I've gone back to them over and over trying to give them a chance. In fact I just A/B tested them with my new Tevi's. The new version of the Tevi's are remarkable. I'm seriously impressed. The Scroll is bass Heavy and Mid-bass heavy to me, but not that good sub bass with balanced mid bass, it's kind of loose and clumsy. Good response, but the low end seems to just over power the highs, they are def. there, but they are very recessed to me and the mids and high mids are pushed a bit more forward than I like. I think if I eq'd them they would probably be pretty good, but the fact that the don't power off w/o the case, they hurt my ears after wearing them for 15 mins and that the touch sensors are ultra sensitive ruined for me. I have also had a slew of connection issues, but i'm glad you like them!! That's what makes this a great forum!





chinmie said:


> the Pamu scroll was the fastest TWS that i had in my possession. it only lasted 2 days before i got rid of it. the sound is so abrasive that it literally made my ears ringing from a short period of using them. i don't know what caused it.. as the tuning itself was quite okay and warmish.
> supports SBC only and the controls are not very good. if i remembered correctly my unit can't go previous track.
> 
> the only good thing i can say about it is i can wear it in the shower just fine



It sounds like I got an odd set of Pamu Scroll that doesn't sound like what other people received. d3myz is describing a veiled sounding scroll, and chinmie is describing an abrasive sounding Scroll, which seems like they are opposites. Mine are from the 1st batch sent out, and don't fit either description.

However, I have a backup pair from a later batch still sealed in the box, that I was saving for when mine die or for a gift to a family member - I may have to pop the spares open and listen to them and compare to my 1st set. My Pamu Scroll are smooth and refined sounding, uncolored, have good extended and controlled bass, full mids, open spacious soundstage, decent imaging, and detailed but slightly recessed treble. Mine hit way above their pay grade.

But, I got the APP and MTW because the PaMu do press on my outer ear after a while, and I can only wear for 1-2 hours before I have to stop for the day. My Crazy Baby Air that I got around the same time were much more comfortable, but had a somewhat tizzy or artificial sounding treble that wasn't terrible but reminded me that I was listening to a crowd funded TWS. But my Scroll sounds like a major IEM company designed and built them, so I'll need to hang on to them in case they are irreplaceable when other pairs are so bad.

*MORE N6Pro Impressions* - I've now got about 15 hours on them in 2.5 days, and my ears don't hurt anymore than they did with the 1st day of 4 hours, although today I didn't have a chance to use them for more than 1 hour at any single listening session. I expect to get 2 more hours tonight.

Until I started to write this tonight I had not listened to any other IEM since my last update yesterday, and I don't find the N6Pro bass to be lacking at all. It was only in comparison to having my ears acclimate to the MTW sound signature for a while and then switching to the N6Pro that I noticed yesterday that the bass wasn't as big as I'd thought, or that the N6Pro were brighter. But without acclimating to other TWS before listening to the N6Pro then the bass is just great, and they didn't seem too bright with most songs.

Tonight I went through My Mix 1 on Tidal, and with dozens of songs – whether it's Billie Eilish "Bad Guy" or "&burn" or "bury a friend", Ed Sheeran and JBieb "I Don't Care", Katy Perry "Harleys in Hawaii", Meghan traitor "Workin' on It", Shawn Mendes and Camilla Cabello "Señorita", or Ariana Grande "7 rings" – the bass is there, fast and tight, with deep extension and undertones, with good detail and crisp treble that is not overdone.

On the other hand, I thought other songs like Ava Max "Sweet but Psycho" sounded a little bright on the N6Pro, given a certain baseline volume and bass level. Same thing with Zara Larsson "All the Time" - at volumes where the bass impact was great then treble was too much. It's basically in the recording, and with these edgy and fatiguing recordings, switching the the MTW just now was a relief and made the songs enjoyable. Going back to the first songs that I'd listened to and mentioned above that I enjoyed on the N6Pro, I still enjoyed them very much on the MTW (on second listen, on "bury a friend" bass is perfect with N6Pro and a little much with MTW).

After only 15 hours of burn-in on the N6pro, if I had to pick one of the two TWS, despite the lesser battery life I would have to pick the MTW; because they are smooth and enjoyable with good and bad recordings alike, have slamming bass, are more comfortable in my ears, and have a transparency mode that makes phone calls much easier without hearing my voice rumble inside my own head.

But, I do not think that I will be returning the N6Pro - I still think the two TWS are complimentary to each other. So, I continue with my 24-48 hour burn-in. [EDIT - yeah, I definitely cannot pick just one of the two, after listening to another hour of music.]


----------



## chinmie

HeadphoneAddict said:


> d3myz is describing a veiled sounding scroll, and chinmie is describing an abrasive sounding Scroll, which seems like they are opposites. Mine are from the 1st batch sent out, and don't fit either description.



i do agreed with d3myz description that the whole spectrum has that veil that makes it sounded warm-ish. the abrasive part is not saying it is bright sounding or harsh, but the fact that the effect on my ears made it ringing and hurt, even though i didn't listen to it in loud volume


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

chinmie said:


> i do agreed with d3myz description that the whole spectrum has that veil that makes it sounded warm-ish. the abrasive part is not saying it is bright sounding or harsh, but the fact that the effect on my ears made it ringing and hurt, even though i didn't listen to it in loud volume



That's weird - I've never experienced anything like that pain you get. It makes me wonder how I lucked out to get a good sounding pair. They do sound recessed a little in the treble, kind of like an HD650 rather than an HD600.


----------



## bronco1015

Fat Larry said:


> Hmm i am not hugely into the hobby. I use a phone when i'm out and my headphone collection is fairly limited. My main setup is Oriveti New Primacy's (which i like a lot) with a Null Audio Ariete cable. Also have a BGVP 5n 8 core cable that i like, but i don't notice much difference between that and the Ariete in terms of sq.. the differences are from the $100 in price and better mic but the build of Null cable annoys the snot out of me. They use a thick coated wire that requires ear hooks to stay in place and it's never been an enjoyable experience as they just don't stay anchored when i'm moving and are difficult to put on.
> 
> One day i want a pair of Beyerdyanic Xelento's which i've seen with a wireless cable, but i does seem odd that a iem of that calibre would compromise it's sq deliberately. I guess that's what the market is demanding.
> 
> I don't stream and listen to a mix of high ogg, flac and 320kbps mp3


 just catching up on posts so maybe you already have mor of an idea what you want to do. I'd say based on the cables you're using and the files you're listening to and that since this is all out and about it seems, imo it would be worth trying some different True wireless models out.


----------



## bronco1015

howdy said:


> I've been jammin to Breaking Benjamin and comparing the Tevis to Sennheiser MTW as I've heard that they have similarities.IMO, I just Don't hear these similarities. I think the MTW are in a whole nother plane then the Tevis.
> Don't get me wrong, I still like the Tevis and kept them, but going from one to the other right away, it's night and day difference for me. Love the Senns!! I will have to wait for my MTW1 to crap out before getting the MTW2 though.


The senns get better with time. As much as i'm looking forward to using the anc on the mtw2 whenever i start traveling/commuting again, and even though i do like the mtw2 alot, i should have waited. Did you get a new case for the MTW, or have you figured out a way to keep the case together? i hate that the lid sometimes comes off and the iems get bumped in my pocket and power up at times.


----------



## bronco1015

d3myz said:


> So I found a new version of the Lypertek Tevi's Like new for $68 shipped on ebay, they arrived today. Some of you may remember that I had a pair prior to the revision and the app and the utter lack of low end left me wanting. It was one of the most disappointing TWS experiences i've had. Beautiful clear, detailed highs and good mids, but literally no low end. Well, I'm happy to report that this new version is Exceptional. Considered me WOW'd @BigZ12 ! Looks like the App is no longer available on app store, which is a bummer, but damn these things sound fantastic. I'm going to keep listening, but as of right now these are in my top 5. They are everything I love about the T1X, but more detailed and less harsh highs. They do have a bit less bass and the mids aren't quite as wide and I do wish there was a bit more mid-bass, but the soundstage is much wider and the detail is busy music is really something. It's been a while since i've listened to a track I hear all the time and have heard something buried in the mix. last thought. The tuning in these reminds me of the N6/N6pro,  except less warm and a bit more exciting. My biggest beef with these is I didn't think they were worth the $80 price tag, well they are now $99 and had I known they sounded this good I would of spent that in a Heartbeat. I think I need to just take the plunge and grab that LG V35 i've been looking at forever so I can tune these bad boys and enjoy them with Aptx.
> [/QUOTE Glad to hear about the improvements. Damn you. i'm not gonna do it. I already have 6 TWE's. Sometimes i really hate this disease..er hobby.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Battery life on the N6pro is outstanding - I've been using them on the MacBook 16" with AptX for well over 2 hours during the past 2.5 hours since my last post, without putting them in the case, and they're at 80% when I connect them to my iPhone 11 Pro Max to check the battery level.


----------



## Fat Larry

bronco1015 said:


> just catching up on posts so maybe you already have mor of an idea what you want to do. I'd say based on the cables you're using and the files you're listening to and that since this is all out and about it seems, imo it would be worth trying some different True wireless models out.



Thanks, i might be a bit green around the ears here though. What do you mean by True wireless? Are we talking pods? Was looking at Xiaomi's version yesterday... but i've had enough failed piston hd's to not really want any more xiaomi buds. Was also looking at BGVP's mmcx bluetooth cable for my existing Oriveti NPs.


----------



## howdy

No, it's still broke. The magnet keeps it closed, and this works for me. I have a 3d printer and was thinking of making something to help fix it.


----------



## alleroy

Since I got no answer, I try to repost my question which could have been not noticed:

Would Earin M2 be a wasted/exaggerated companion for a Samsung Galaxy S10e source? Any suggestion for a possibly more balanced purchase?


----------



## Rozzko

d3myz said:


> I'd say roughly 1000-2000x better. ;-p


Do you have AirPods? And what about comfort? Is Sony comforbale?


----------



## d3myz

I probably need to revise my post a bit. Sound is fantastic, but the buttons are a bit stiff and I don't love they beep everytime you press them. The case is giantic, but those are small things. I think $70 is just about right. I noticed amazon now has a couple used pair, might be worth picking if they are in good shape. I was playing with the Spotify EQ last night and bumped the low end up just a touch. It was great, but I'd really like to find the app for iOS.


----------



## clerkpalmer

RobinFood said:


> Sabbat x12 with the half in ear style is the best for that. Everything dependant on microphones for awareness will have some kind of wind noise.



Thanks.  So you are are saying that the Sabbat x12 will not amplify wind noise?  I assume that any transparency mode is going to be useless? Next question - I am seeing x12 pro and x12 ultra.  Which is the best?  As for the sony's, I don't trust them to stay in my ear on a bike.


----------



## turbobb

HeadphoneAddict said:


> Battery life on the N6pro is outstanding - I've been using them on the MacBook 16" with AptX for well over 2 hours during the past 2.5 hours since my last post, without putting them in the case, and they're at 80% when I connect them to my iPhone 11 Pro Max to check the battery level.



Thx a lot for your posts re: impressions of the N6 Pro. I just got an insurance replacement for MW07 and while I love pretty much everything about them (especially the SQ and multi-point) it's Achilles heel is the battery life. Wondering if you've had any experience with the MW07's and can do a quick comparison vs. N6 Pro? Another thing I really enjoyed about the MW07 was the reasonably good soundstage which I'm missing on my other TWS at the moment.

(P.S. for anyone interested my BNIB sealed Grey Terrazzo MW07 is up for sale, please PM)


----------



## BigZ12 (May 5, 2020)

d3myz said:


> So I found a new version of the Lypertek Tevi's Like new for $68 shipped on ebay, they arrived today. Some of you may remember that I had a pair prior to the revision and the app and the utter lack of low end left me wanting. It was one of the most disappointing TWS experiences i've had. Beautiful clear, detailed highs and good mids, but literally no low end. Well, I'm happy to report that this new version is Exceptional. Considered me WOW'd @BigZ12 ! Looks like the App is no longer available on app store, which is a bummer, but damn these things sound fantastic. I'm going to keep listening, but as of right now these are in my top 5. They are everything I love about the T1X, but more detailed and less harsh highs. They do have a bit less bass and the mids aren't quite as wide and I do wish there was a bit more mid-bass, but the soundstage is much wider and the detail is busy music is really something. It's been a while since i've listened to a track I hear all the time and have heard something buried in the mix. last thought. The tuning in these reminds me of the N6/N6pro,  except less warm and a bit more exciting. My biggest beef with these is I didn't think they were worth the $80 price tag, well they are now $99 and had I known they sounded this good I would of spent that in a Heartbeat. I think I need to just take the plunge and grab that LG V35 i've been looking at forever so I can tune these bad boys and enjoy them with Aptx.


Good to hear we agree on the updated sound signature.
I love my new set, with the app installed and updated firmware pre-installed from Lypertek.
Very strange that they took down the app. Maybe you should send a message to them, asking why?
The buttons are a bit stiff (my 1st editions were even stiffer than the new set), and make you feel like pushing the bud in the ear. Especially when using silicone- or Symbio tips. With the Comply Foam made for the Tevis, it's much more comfortable to use. (but then they lack a little bass compared to the Symbio W and JVC Spiral Dots for ex..)


----------



## eiraku (May 5, 2020)

d3myz said:


> I probably need to revise my post a bit. Sound is fantastic, but the buttons are a bit stiff and I don't love they beep everytime you press them. The case is giantic, but those are small things. I think $70 is just about right. I noticed amazon now has a couple used pair, might be worth picking if they are in good shape. I was playing with the Spotify EQ last night and bumped the low end up just a touch. It was great, but I'd really like to find the app for iOS.



Do keep an eye on the Bluetooth connection stability on these? I've heard that they could be a bit spotty at times (which is why I canceled my own order way back when)... but if the new updates have fixed that it would be super.

And yeah, you can (fortunately) still sideload the app for Android seems like. I wonder if the app comes with EQ.


----------



## assassin10000

clerkpalmer said:


> Thanks.  So you are are saying that the Sabbat x12 will not amplify wind noise?  I assume that any transparency mode is going to be useless? Next question - I am seeing x12 pro and x12 ultra.  Which is the best?  As for the sony's, I don't trust them to stay in my ear on a bike.



X12 pro or ultra is earpod or earbudstyle. It's transparency is that it doesn't isolate. So no microphones to amplify wind noise. Way better for awareness than any ambient or transparency afaik.


E12 or E12 ultra is an IEM and has no transparency or ambient modes.


----------



## BigZ12

eiraku said:


> Do keep an eye on the Bluetooth connection stability on these? I've heard that they could be a bit spotty at times (which is why I canceled my own order)... but if the new updates have fixed that it would be super.
> 
> And yeah, you can (fortunately) still sideload the app for Android seems like. I wonder if the app comes with EQ.


I think my new set with an updated firmware have more solid connection compared to the 1st edition.


----------



## raymanh

Those with the Jabra 75t, have you noticed reduction in bass after the latest firmware update. I've also noticed, from the start, what appeared to be some sibilance from the left earbud, especially when you press for hear through and the assistant tells you it's on. However I think it actually might be a connection issue as the left earbud is the slave. Any 75t owners have this?


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

turbobb said:


> Thx a lot for your posts re: impressions of the N6 Pro. I just got an insurance replacement for MW07 and while I love pretty much everything about them (especially the SQ and multi-point) it's Achilles heel is the battery life. Wondering if you've had any experience with the MW07's and can do a quick comparison vs. N6 Pro? Another thing I really enjoyed about the MW07 was the reasonably good soundstage which I'm missing on my other TWS at the moment.
> 
> (P.S. for anyone interested my BNIB sealed Grey Terrazzo MW07 is up for sale, please PM)



Sorry, no experience with the MW07. What is your battery life like?

After I posted above about 80% after 2 hours of continuous listening, I disconnected the NUARL 6PRO-L from BT and connected to the right as master, and it reported the battery at 90% to my iPhone. In the user manual, Nuarl says that which ever one has the strongest battery will be used as master the next time you connect; so I suspect that the master uses more battery and then the other bud will eventually take a turn being the master once the battery level gap opens up, to even things out. 

I had been listening to them from 10pm - 2AM last night, and probably put them inside the case for a little bit at some point during that 4 hours. But I knew for sure that I had not put them into the case for at least 2.5 hours before I checked the battery and reported on that. I wish I could find a way to check the battery level while connected to my MacBook Pro. I looked into "About This Mac > System Report" while connected and see if it is there, and it wasn't. 

Also, I have not plugged in the charging case to power since 10PM last night, and I'm going to see how many more hours of listening I get from the N6P before the buds and case battery are totally drained. I am 5 hours into that test.

Comfort and sound are good enough that I was able to enjoy the N6P for several hours yesterday without feeling the need to grab something else. Also, I don't want it to sound like I think the N6P are bass light - the bass is great, with good power, speed and extension. It only feels light after listening for an hour and then trying something with more bass later, such as the MTW. Once your ears acclimate to them, then anything else makes the differences sound more dramatic. Likewise, if I'm acclimated to the MTW and then switch to something else, it's only then that I realize just how much their treble is recessed in direct comparison.

But the sonic difference between N6P and MTW is nice, because if a recording is bright or edgy I don't have to EQ the N6P as I can just switch to the MTW, and if a song is dark (or bass heavy like mentioned above) I don't have to EQ the MTW but can just switch to the N6P. EQ on the iPhone tends to insert distortion, so I really don't use it unless it's an app that my headset came with (Audeze, Sennheiser). But with my MacBook Pro I have Rogue Amoeba "Sound Source" app, which has a pretty clean sounding EQ, so I'm less afraid to EQ when using that as my source.


----------



## BigZ12

Apple Airpods have got a new firmware. 2D15.
Immediately I heard that bass with ANC/Transparency mode OFF is back. Actually now it's even more powerful than with it set to ON.
I think sound is fuller overall now?, compared to 2B588 and 2C54. 
Ear fit test is green again. (I just got yellow with 2C54)
Sadly ANC is not as effective as it was with 2B576 and 2B584 
Otherwise everything works as it should. 

I actually like the APPs very much! Use them with iPhone X, Apple Watch 4, Macbook Pro 13 and Apple TV. So convienient switching between devices, and they even sound decent..


----------



## Sam L (May 5, 2020)

d3myz said:


> I'd say roughly 1000-2000x better. ;-p


ahahah....

I use my Airpods Pros regularly but only because the noise cancellation is really good and the convenience (and size). The Sony 1000xm3's sound way better.


----------



## d3myz

BigZ12 said:


> And when you get them, you'll know if you can connect to the app.
> https://www.lypertek.com/app-beta (android)
> https://apps.apple.com/th/app/lypertek/id1486702910 (ios)


Any idea why I can't find the app on the appstore?


----------



## dw13

d3myz said:


> Any idea why I can't find the app on the appstore?


I emailed Lypertek a couple of days ago with that very question.  They said it "is not released yet".


----------



## BigZ12

d3myz said:


> Any idea why I can't find the app on the appstore?


Nope 
Gone when searching here too. 
But I have it installed, and it still works.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

BigZ12 said:


> Apple Airpods have got a new firmware. 2D15.
> Immediately *I heard that bass with ANC/Transparency mode OFF is back*. Actually now it's even more powerful than with it set to ON.
> I think sound is fuller overall now?, compared to 2B588 and 2C54.
> Ear fit test is green again. (I just got yellow with 2C54)
> ...



Great, been waiting to get the bass back with ANC/Transparency off!

I've connected to my iPhone and then put them in the case and plugged the case in to charge, and set them next to my iPhone so we'll see how long it takes to update. ANC has been pretty good for me, except at the lowest frequencies where 2C54 stopped working as well, so as long as it's not worse I can live with it...


----------



## Luchyres

alleroy said:


> Since I got no answer, I try to repost my question which could have been not noticed:
> 
> Would Earin M2 be a wasted/exaggerated companion for a Samsung Galaxy S10e source? Any suggestion for a possibly more balanced purchase?



It would not be wasted - be sure to check the codecs supported on both devices, but so kong as it supports a codec that carries quality you're happy with - they'd be a fine pair.

However, given advancements in TWS technology, I'd strongly encourage you to identify what you like about them and look for another pair (or wait for their next model, which is not announced yet, to my knowledge).

I did not love the quality of bass with the m2 though I loved the form factor. My 2c


----------



## popandilaro

[


d3myz said:


> So I found a new version of the Lypertek Tevi's Like new for $68 shipped on ebay, they arrived today.


Can you share a link of where you got this new version?


----------



## HeadphoneAddict (May 5, 2020)

HeadphoneAddict said:


> Great, been waiting to get the bass back with ANC/Transparency off!
> 
> I've connected to my iPhone and then put them in the case and plugged the case in to charge, and set them next to my iPhone so we'll see how long it takes to update. ANC has been pretty good for me, except at the lowest frequencies where 2C54 stopped working as well, so as long as it's not worse I can live with it...



It took less than 30 minutes to update - sorry, but I didn't check it before that.

The bass definitely sounds better without needing to turn on ANC or transparency. But I find the APP to still boost the bass relative to "off" when either ANC or transparency are engaged. I also still think there is some EQ applied or phase alignment going on with ANC or Transparency mode, that makes them sound a little more lively or energetic than they are with everything "off".

With everything off the mids tend to get more forward and the sound is just a little more bland for me - not a deal breaker, and at least now I can use them again in "off" mode for the best battery life if needed.

[EDIT - I think the APP are using the microphone inside the ear tip to modify the sound when in any "active" mode, to help make them sound better. I ALSO think that I hear a tiny bit of white-noise in the background with ANC turned on now.]


----------



## d3myz

BigZ12 said:


> Good to hear we agree on the updated sound signature.
> I love my new set, with the app installed and updated firmware pre-installed from Lypertek.
> Very strange that they took down the app. Maybe you should send a message to them, asking why?
> The buttons are a bit stiff (my 1st editions were even stiffer than the new set), and make you feel like pushing the bud in the ear. Especially when using silicone- or Symbio tips. With the Comply Foam made for the Tevis, it's much more comfortable to use. (but then they lack a little bass compared to the Symbio W and JVC Spiral Dots for ex..)


I'd agree, the buttons are a bit softer, I like it. I've tried the factory foams and some of the misodiku clones from ali express, they all work pretty well, but I like the sound quality I'm getting from some of the recessed silicone tips i got from who knows where. I see the app on apple's website, but yea, it's not available for me. could be because i'm on iOS 13.5 beta, but who knows. i'm going to e-mail them. Now if I could just find a smaller replacement case to make them more portable.


----------



## d3myz

eiraku said:


> Do keep an eye on the Bluetooth connection stability on these? I've heard that they could be a bit spotty at times (which is why I canceled my own order way back when)... but if the new updates have fixed that it would be super.
> 
> And yeah, you can (fortunately) still sideload the app for Android seems like. I wonder if the app comes with EQ.


Good call, so far my connection has been rock solid. each time I go to mono mode as well, they switch automatically.


----------



## Synthy

alleroy said:


> Since I got no answer, I try to repost my question which could have been not noticed:
> 
> Would Earin M2 be a wasted/exaggerated companion for a Samsung Galaxy S10e source? Any suggestion for a possibly more balanced purchase?



here's the thing about the question, there's actually zero impact on sound quality that a source device will have when using bluetooth. the dac, the amp, is all in the receiver device (in this case the earbuds) when using bluetooth. all the source device does is transcode from source file to the bluetooth codec and broadcast, and doing that is 100% consistent between devices. so when using bluetooth there's no difference between a expensive dap and a s10e (in fact the s10e might be slightly better due to having quite a good bluetooth chip leading to a possibility of a slightly more stable connection). if there's a weird bluetooth codec there might be a difference, but all bluetooth codecs that any tws supports the s10e does too. a good source is almost entirely about driving the earphones and a bit about  decoding from the digital to analog, both of which are done on the receiver side in a bluetooth connection.


----------



## d3myz

Man, this new AirPod Pro firmware sucks.  ANC is now worse than the XM3’s and the audio quality is not much different, still pretty crappy. I will say I think the transparency mode is a little better and the connection issues I’ve had in the past seem to be resolved. Also no matter what size tips use the ear tip test fails every time.


----------



## bronco1015

Fat Larry said:


> Thanks, i might be a bit green around the ears here though. What do you mean by True wireless? Are we talking pods? Was looking at Xiaomi's version yesterday... but i've had enough failed piston hd's to not really want any more xiaomi buds. Was also looking at BGVP's mmcx bluetooth cable for my existing Oriveti NPs.


ah the pistons. loved them for the 2 months or so they worked.
no for True Wireless i mean any BT dev that doesn't have wires going from 1 iem to the other.
Some examples from an innumerable amount of products, airpods excluded since you're familiar with them.
Sennheiser momentum True Wireless 1st and 2nd gen.
Sony WF1000XM3
Nuarl N6 and N6 pro,
lypertek Tevi,
Cambridge Audio Melamania1
Master & Dynamic MW07 go and plus
Galaxy buds plus
jabra elite 65 and 75 T there are "active' versions of both of these, not needed imo.i used to swim with a pair of 65T and had no issues.
plantronics backbeat pro 5100, Bose soundsport Free There are so many mor i could mention.


----------



## bronco1015

howdy said:


> No, it's still broke. The magnet keeps it closed, and this works for me. I have a 3d printer and was thinking of making something to help fix it.


Good idea. Yeah, the magnet works most the time just fine, it just happens here and there that the lid slips. just enough to annoy me. just had the thought come to me as i was replying so figured i see what if anything you had done.


----------



## tma6

bronco1015 said:


> ah the pistons. loved them for the 2 months or so they worked.
> no for True Wireless i mean any BT dev that doesn't have wires going from 1 iem to the other.
> Some examples from an innumerable amount of products, airpods excluded since you're familiar with them.
> Sennheiser momentum True Wireless 1st and 2nd gen.
> ...



Let’s not forget the L2P for dat bass


----------



## tma6

I know this is all wireless round here, but been using the ThieAudio Legacy 3 for the past week with my ES100 (so that kinda counts??? XD). Excellent wired set that doesn’t break the bank. Wrote a full review here if anyone’s interested:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/thieaudio-legacy-3.930478/post-15590381


----------



## chinmie

tma6 said:


> I know this is all wireless round here, but been using the ThieAudio Legacy 3 for the past week with my ES100 (so that kinda counts??? XD). Excellent wired set that doesn’t break the bank. Wrote a full review here if anyone’s interested:
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/thieaudio-legacy-3.930478/post-15590381



Sorry, but i'm afraid no. This thread is for full truly wireless only, so no wires between left and right units. I also have the ES100 and agree it's a great unit, but sadly not a topic of discussion here


----------



## HeadphoneAddict (May 6, 2020)

d3myz said:


> Man, this new AirPod Pro firmware sucks.  ANC is now worse than the XM3’s and the audio quality is not much different, still pretty crappy. I will say I think the transparency mode is a little better and the connection issues I’ve had in the past seem to be resolved. Also no matter what size tips use the ear tip test fails every time.



I'm from a different multiverse than you. My Air Pods Pro ANC is so strong that although I don't get the "suck" it completely eliminates the roar of the fans on my MacBook 16" when it's under a heavy load. My ceiling fan on high speed setting disappears. The air vent fan in the bathroom goes silent.

And yet, now I don't pass the fit test with large tips which I had to switch to a while back because I didn't pass the fit test with medium tips on 2C54 firmware. Going to go back to medium later to see if they seal better and make my ears itch less when wearing them.

[EDIT - there is definitely more white noise in the background when using ANC with no music playing. Not much, but I never noticed it before. That is despite the fact that ANC blocks out 98% of the motor noise from a noisy oxygen concentrator just 3 feet away.


----------



## webvan

assassin10000 said:


> X12 pro or ultra is earpod or earbudstyle. It's transparency is that it doesn't isolate. So no microphones to amplify wind noise. Way better for awareness than any ambient or transparency afaik.
> 
> 
> E12 or E12 ultra is an IEM and has no transparency or ambient modes.



True there are no ANC mics to pick up wind noise but the X12 do pick up a lot of wind noise, it's ok for running but for bike riding it quickly gets old. I'm not sure why, likely because there's no seal so the wind just makes it way "around" them.

I've been doing a lot of indoor riding these days and have found that since the MTW2 pick up wind noise even when ANC is OFF it's better to turn ANC ON to get more fan noise attenuation. Overall I'm still pretty impressed with the MTW2 but find it bit hard to justify their price compared to say the Echobuds that offer better overall noise isolation and hold better during intense effort thanks to the the wings. Sure SQ is better but then when you're exercising hard it evens out pretty much completely !


----------



## DigDub

Synthy said:


> here's the thing about the question, there's actually zero impact on sound quality that a source device will have when using bluetooth. the dac, the amp, is all in the receiver device (in this case the earbuds) when using bluetooth. all the source device does is transcode from source file to the bluetooth codec and broadcast, and doing that is 100% consistent between devices. so when using bluetooth there's no difference between a expensive dap and a s10e (in fact the s10e might be slightly better due to having quite a good bluetooth chip leading to a possibility of a slightly more stable connection). if there's a weird bluetooth codec there might be a difference, but all bluetooth codecs that any tws supports the s10e does too. a good source is almost entirely about driving the earphones and a bit about  decoding from the digital to analog, both of which are done on the receiver side in a bluetooth connection.


I thought this was true as well, until I tried my tws earbuds on different phones. On a Samsung s20+ the earbuds sounded just right, on a Samsung s10 lite the highs are less shrill, on a Sony Xperia 5 the treble is too bright and sibilant. All EQ on the phones were off or flat. So I'm led to believe that during the transcoding process, there's some sort of EQ being applied or the transcoding quality may vary between different phone models.


----------



## alleroy

Synthy said:


> here's the thing about the question, there's actually zero impact on sound quality that a source device will have when using bluetooth. the dac, the amp, is all in the receiver device (in this case the earbuds) when using bluetooth. all the source device does is transcode from source file to the bluetooth codec and broadcast, and doing that is 100% consistent between devices. so when using bluetooth there's no difference between a expensive dap and a s10e (in fact the s10e might be slightly better due to having quite a good bluetooth chip leading to a possibility of a slightly more stable connection). if there's a weird bluetooth codec there might be a difference, but all bluetooth codecs that any tws supports the s10e does too. a good source is almost entirely about driving the earphones and a bit about  decoding from the digital to analog, both of which are done on the receiver side in a bluetooth connection.



Thanks to you for taking your time to answer to a probably newbie question.



DigDub said:


> I thought this was true as well, until I tried my tws earbuds on different phones. On a Samsung s20+ the earbuds sounded just right, on a Samsung s10 lite the highs are less shrill, on a Sony Xperia 5 the treble is too bright and sibilant. All EQ on the phones were off or flat. So I'm led to believe that during the transcoding process, there's some sort of EQ being applied or the transcoding quality may vary between different phone models.



In view of the previous reply, is there a chance that some settings in sound option of the different phones (e.g Dolby Atmos) has an impact on bluetooth playing too?


----------



## popandilaro

Where can the bomaker sifis be bought at the moment?


----------



## DigDub

alleroy said:


> Thanks to you for taking your time to answer to a probably newbie question.
> 
> 
> 
> In view of the previous reply, is there a chance that some settings in sound option of the different phones (e.g Dolby Atmos) has an impact on bluetooth playing too?


For Samsung phones, the dolby atmos option has an impact on the Bluetooth sound as well.


----------



## go0gle

https://www.theverge.com/2020/5/6/21247775/surface-earbuds-price-release-date-features-bluetooth

https://cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/19947866/Surface_Earbuds_2.jpg


----------



## jant71

DigDub said:


> I thought this was true as well, until I tried my tws earbuds on different phones. On a Samsung s20+ the earbuds sounded just right, on a Samsung s10 lite the highs are less shrill, on a Sony Xperia 5 the treble is too bright and sibilant. All EQ on the phones were off or flat. So I'm led to believe that during the transcoding process, there's some sort of EQ being applied or the transcoding quality may vary between different phone models.



Unless they would integrate the bluetooth earlier in the chain it seems that the BT on the other end will most always carry the devices sound character. Among my DAP's like Ruizu for one example, I have one earlier that is super cool and neutral and it sounds like that over BT. The newer model is warmer and sounds like that over BT. Some others are even warmer which I do not like. No way all BT will sound the same. Not all but a majority tend to sound over BT the way they do out of a HO.


----------



## go0gle

New firmware for the little beasts! *1.27 *

.. not much detail is given tho


----------



## Ironrust

Hi
Was hoping to get pointed in the right direction. I have a pair of QCY T1. They are a few years old and are getting a bit tired. I am unsure of what to get to replace them. Audio quality and comfort are what I care about most as music and podcasts are what they are used for mainly. I am hoping to spend between $50 and $60 Canadian. What are some options for me I have done some research but am not really feeling confident in selecting a good pair.

Thanks in advance.


----------



## d3myz (May 6, 2020)

AirPods Pro Firmware 2D15 Update.

Been using the APPs at work today. I think a few things have changed. Iphone connectivity and Siri integration is much better a bit more responsive. Now instead of the buds connecting one at a time when pulling them out of the case simultaneously they both initiate at the same time, so there's not more failures to connected when pulling them out of the case to take a call or audio only playing in one ear. Second thing i've noticed is that the balance between audio and transparency is much better, the volume of the audio when playing does seem to diminish as much when going from ANC > Transparency modes, which is nice because I always had to turn the audio up when switching on Transparency. Lastly, The ANC IMO is actually better. I feel like the lower frequencies aren't quite as reduced as before, but it's slight. What I am noticing is a better reduction in mid-bass and some higher end frequencies. As i've mentioned before I have two 3 year olds and I can actually tell that I hear less of their little cute voices. As for the audio quailty, it may be a little better, but overall it's still quite mid-rangey and bad. Also, I think the battery is draining a little faster. I'll do some more testing.


----------



## BobJS

I just got the new Audio-technica ATH-ANC300TW in and have been listening for about half an hour.  Initial impressions are that it sounds pretty good.  Highs and mids are crisp.  Bass isn't bad, just a bit woolly. Maybe they'll break in.  The noise cancelling seems excellent, but I haven't done comparisons yet.  They do stick out a bit, but they're comfortable in my ears with a good fit using the large included silicon tips.


----------



## Luke Skywalker

HeadphoneAddict said:


> Thanks for that!  I did actually order the Fiil T1x at the same time as the N6Pro, but they we're backordered until 5/15 so not here yet.
> 
> The WF-1000XM3 reviews on Amazon have been putting me off trying them, and I would get the refurbished ones for a great price except that it seems that sometimes they arrive stinky or dirty, and I don't someone else Coronavirus coming into my house on the XM3. Also, the reviews for the new XM3 are not any better than for the refurbished ones. And, at $230 for a new pair of XM3, I might rather spring for the MTW2, maybe returning the T1x to help pay the difference in cost.


I'd skip the WF-1000XM3 dude... I bought them for like $119 refurbished and I wish I hadn't.  My Nuarl N6 Pro's blow them out of the water


----------



## Luke Skywalker

Rozzko said:


> How much Sony wf-1000m3 better than aipods? In sound quality. I have got AirPods, but thinking about changing on Sony


I'd seriously consider the Nuarl N6 Pro.  I absolutely love them and for some music they compare to my JH Lola's.  Have the Sony's and don't like them


----------



## webvan

The main problem with the Sony's is that they just do not stay in your ear if you move, probably the worst fitting TWS ever ! Hopefully they will come up with a revised form factor with the same electronics at some point...


----------



## d3myz

webvan said:


> The main problem with the Sony's is that they just do not stay in your ear if you move, probably the worst fitting TWS ever ! Hopefully they will come up with a revised form factor with the same electronics at some point...


I'm using some medium tips that came with my liberty 2 pros and the XM3's fit really well, it's definitely a chore finding the right tips, but not that I have I love them.


----------



## TheLionelHutz (May 6, 2020)

Ironrust said:


> Hi
> Was hoping to get pointed in the right direction. I have a pair of QCY T1. They are a few years old and are getting a bit tired. I am unsure of what to get to replace them. Audio quality and comfort are what I care about most as music and podcasts are what they are used for mainly. I am hoping to spend between $50 and $60 Canadian. What are some options for me I have done some research but am not really feeling confident in selecting a good pair.
> 
> Thanks in advance.


A little out of your price range, but I can't speak highly enough of the Adv Model X+ as a well-rounded choice.  I have 4 other pairs of TWS available to me in pandemic lock-down (a few others are at the office), including Nuarl N6, but I wear the Model X+ almost all the time. They sound fantastic (I'm using AAC off an iPhone, EQ'd Spotify) and they are just ridiculously comfortable. I wear them for hours without fatigue.  The Nuarls definitely sound better, but not by a country mile or anything, and the ADVs are just effortlessly easy to wear/use.  Plus they have a small, actually-pocketable case (with USB-C and Qi) that beats everything I've handled (including the Galaxy Buds case, plus about 3x the battery life).  Highly recommended to give a look. I got a 10% coupon for signing up for their mailing list, so they were $71 USD.


----------



## assassin10000

webvan said:


> The main problem with the Sony's is that they just do not stay in your ear if you move, probably the worst fitting TWS ever ! Hopefully they will come up with a revised form factor with the same electronics at some point...



If they make both the TWS and case as small as my Mavin's it'd be awesome. They are the largest for both ear pieces and case of the TWS I've tried.



d3myz said:


> I'm using some medium tips that came with my liberty 2 pros and the XM3's fit really well, it's definitely a chore finding the right tips, but not that I have I love them.



Agreed. The fit isn't completely terrible once you figure out the right tips and figure out the right amount of rotation for your ears. Good but not good enough for active use (running, etc.).


----------



## Synthy (May 6, 2020)

jant71 said:


> Unless they would integrate the bluetooth earlier in the chain it seems that the BT on the other end will most always carry the devices sound character. Among my DAP's like Ruizu for one example, I have one earlier that is super cool and neutral and it sounds like that over BT. The newer model is warmer and sounds like that over BT. Some others are even warmer which I do not like. No way all BT will sound the same. Not all but a majority tend to sound over BT the way they do out of a HO.


sound character of a device comes from eq, amping, and sometimes dac quirks. in bluetooth transcoding there's no conversion to analog, so there's no room for amping or dac quirks to play a role. there is room for eq or other extraneous sound processing (someone mentioned dolby atmos) to change the character of the sound, but those are software features than can be turned on or off and aren't truly a characteristic of the device. in analog signal chains and devices speaking of "character" makes sense, in the purely digital parts of the signal chain it doesn't. that's why it makes sense to use good quality audio cables from your amp to your driver (or from dac to amp), but all usb cables from computer to dac are the same (ignoring not to spec trash with bad grounding, which you're unlikely to find anyway).


----------



## Burgerbassist

I've been using MW07 Go's for a while now, and I really like them. They get me through my work day, and I really enjoy their sound signature. However, I've been listening to more audiobooks and (pre-COVID) I realized for audiobooks on the train, I'd like ANC, so I ordered some Cleer Ally Plus's. I like them, and the ANC is nice, but I prefer the MW07s' signature - I feel like the Cleers are a little veiled in comparison, although they do go lower than the M&D's.

My problem is I've now lost one of my Cleers. With that in mind, does anyone have any moderately-priced (hoping for $150 or less, but I'm not against buying used) TW earbuds they like that have ANC and something like Tile or Find My Buds that would compensate for me being too dumb to keep track of my stuff? I'd mainly be using them for audiobooks, but sound signature on the detailed-but-still-musical end of the spectrum would be a big plus. Thanks!


----------



## erockg

BobJS said:


> I just got the new Audio-technica ATH-ANC300TW in and have been listening for about half an hour.  Initial impressions are that it sounds pretty good.  Highs and mids are crisp.  Bass isn't bad, just a bit woolly. Maybe they'll break in.  The noise cancelling seems excellent, but I haven't done comparisons yet.  They do stick out a bit, but they're comfortable in my ears with a good fit using the large included silicon tips.


Just got them today as well.  They fit a lot better than my MTW2.  The ANC is pretty comparable, block out the sounds in my house with a fan, airplanes (the few by the airport) and my neighbors talking in the courtyard.  The volume doesn't get as loud as my MTW2.  Depends on the quality of the source.  Older albums that haven't been remastered sound low.  Using an iPhone 11 Pro Max.


----------



## clerkpalmer

Burgerbassist said:


> I've been using MW07 Go's for a while now, and I really like them. They get me through my work day, and I really enjoy their sound signature. However, I've been listening to more audiobooks and (pre-COVID) I realized for audiobooks on the train, I'd like ANC, so I ordered some Cleer Ally Plus's. I like them, and the ANC is nice, but I prefer the MW07s' signature - I feel like the Cleers are a little veiled in comparison, although they do go lower than the M&D's.
> 
> My problem is I've now lost one of my Cleers. With that in mind, does anyone have any moderately-priced (hoping for $150 or less, but I'm not against buying used) TW earbuds they like that have ANC and something like Tile or Find My Buds that would compensate for me being too dumb to keep track of my stuff? I'd mainly be using them for audiobooks, but sound signature on the detailed-but-still-musical end of the spectrum would be a big plus. Thanks!



Not much out there with ANC for $150 or less but you can probably grab an mw07 plus for 200 or so on ebay since you like the sound quality on the gos. Or maybe grab the 1more ANC.  Usually a coupon code floating around.


----------



## voicemaster

Does DLC dynamic driver needs longer burn-in time?


----------



## chinmie

this is the tips that i use with my XM3s. the foam one is some generic no-brand tips that i tried out of curiosity.. turns out it fits great. both the Acoustune and the foam one make the XM3s sits more flush on my ears. when my ears get a bit sweaty, the acoustune still have a potential to dislodge and fall, although the possibility is small. with the foam one, it won't come out even if i run or flick the earpiece on purpose with my finger



Luke Skywalker said:


> I'd skip the WF-1000XM3 dude... I bought them for like $119 refurbished and I wish I hadn't.  My Nuarl N6 Pro's blow them out of the water



i'd still encourage you to try and EQ them. the XM3 sound was just "meh" to me the first time i bought it. a bit disappointed in fact, because i was comparing it to the sound of the older XM that i love. 
but after just a simple EQ cut to the clear bass setting, it becomes my most favorite sounding IEM. not just TWS, but even among my wired ones.


----------



## voicemaster (May 7, 2020)

My ANC300TW just came in today (1 day earlier than schedule). Initial impression is a bit of a mixed bag. Using my samsung S20+ the sound is pretty low with ANC turned off, but when using the ANC, the volume suddenly got louder (still not as loud as N6P). I haven't tested the ANC yet, but I did try the ambiance sound and it sounds pretty good. It sounded more natural than GBuds v.1. The sound is pretty good, clear high and mid (tho a bit on the thick side like N6P), bass still a bit boomy, but I cooked it up using my subwoofer test song (max volume) and it tighten up a bit. The sound is not mind blowing or anything IMHO (again, this is just my initial impression). The quick ambiance mode is very nice. Fit and build quality is very good. It is big, but not too big like 1more ANC. It is doesn't stick too far out from the ear which I like. The case is plastic, but feels premium and solid. It is quite big compared to N6P and 1more ANC case.


----------



## dw13

voicemaster said:


> My ANC300TW just came in today (1 day earlier than schedule). Initial impression is a bit of a mixed bag. Using my samsung S20+ the sound is pretty low with ANC turned off, but when using the ANC, the volume suddenly got louder (still not as loud as N6P). I haven't tested the ANC yet, but I did try the ambiance sound and it sounds pretty good. It sounded more natural than GBuds v.1. The sound is pretty good, clear high and mid (tho a bit on the thick side like N6P), bass still a bit boomy, but I cooked it up using my subwoofer test song (max volume) and it tighten up a bit. The sound is not mind blowing or anything IMHO (again, this is just my initial impression). The quick ambiance mode is very nice. Fit and build quality is very good. It is big, but not too big like 1more ANC. It is doesn't stick too far out from the ear which I like. The case is plastic, but feels premium and solid. It is quite big compared to N6P and 1more ANC case.


I've listened to my ANC300TW's for about 15 hours and I'm somewhat disappointed.  I don't think they sound quite as good as the Sony WF-1000XM3's--hopefully with a little more break-in they will improve.  ANC with A-T is maybe a little better than the XM3's in most situations, although I think the Sony's are excellent for wind noise reduction.  Neither wowed me with noise reduction; Etymotics with foam tips are still my gold standard for isolation.  The Sony app is so much better than A-T's which has no eq settings.  Fit on A-T is much superior to the Sony's.  Looking forward to seeing reviews of the new Technics/Panasonic and Bose 700 models.


----------



## voicemaster (May 7, 2020)

dw13 said:


> I've listened to my ANC300TW's for about 15 hours and I'm somewhat disappointed.  I don't think they sound quite as good as the Sony WF-1000XM3's--hopefully with a little more break-in they will improve.  ANC with A-T is maybe a little better than the XM3's in most situations, although I think the Sony's are excellent for wind noise reduction.  Neither wowed me with noise reduction; Etymotics with foam tips are still my gold standard for isolation.  The Sony app is so much better than A-T's which has no eq settings.  Fit on A-T is much superior to the Sony's.  Looking forward to seeing reviews of the new Technics/Panasonic and Bose 700 models.


What I noticed is that the sound is noticeably louder and more fun with the ANC turned on. Without ANC, the sound is very flat, bass is quite tight and light, mid and high are good tho. They do sound good tho. 
Also, if you want to turn on/off the ANC, you can only do so via the app. there is no control whatsoever for the ANC beside the quick ambiance mode on the earbuds.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Luke Skywalker said:


> I'd skip the WF-1000XM3 dude... I bought them for like $119 refurbished and I wish I hadn't.  My Nuarl N6 Pro's blow them out of the water



Yeah, I took a pass on the WF-1000XM3. Thanks.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

I used the Nuarl 6 Pro (N6P) from 9:30PM to 1:50AM (4h:20m), with them actually in my ears laying audio for at least 3.5 of those 4.3 hours, and I did not put them back into the case that whole time. I was listening mostly to YouTube videos on my MacBook Pro with AptX, with the right ear connected as master. Then I disconnected from the MacBook and connected to my iPhone to let me check battery levels. The right earpiece (master) battery was at 70% charge, and the left (slave) was at 90% charge. 

This is just insane battery life, as my MTW would have been dead or close to dead by then. I'm guessing that if the N6P behavior is consistent (with the master draining 30% for every 10% that the slave drains), that if I were to connect them with the left as master the next time, and listen for another 3.5 hours, that I might have both earpieces down to 50-60% charge. They claim 11 hours on the buds per charge, and 55 hours total for buds and case, or 8 hours on the buds with AptX. At the rate I'm going I'd be getting at least 10 hours with AptX, if I don't alternate which ear is master and just leave the one connected as master until it dies (the slave would still have some charge left). 

But, I'm just going to put them back in the case to top them off, and I'm still NOT going to plug the case into USB-C yet. I want to see how many total hours I get before both buds and case are depleted, so I will let the buds decide which one will be master and slave (the manual says the battery level will determine which becomes master). I have about 20-21 hours on them total so far without plugging the case into power.


----------



## bronco1015

HeadphoneAddict said:


> I used the Nuarl 6 Pro (N6P) from 9:30PM to 1:50AM (4h:20m), with them actually in my ears laying audio for at least 3.5 of those 4.3 hours, and I did not put them back into the case that whole time. I was listening mostly to YouTube videos on my MacBook Pro with AptX, with the right ear connected as master. Then I disconnected from the MacBook and connected to my iPhone to let me check battery levels. The right earpiece (master) battery was at 70% charge, and the left (slave) was at 90% charge.
> 
> This is just insane battery life, as my MTW would have been dead or close to dead by then. I'm guessing that if the N6P behavior is consistent (with the master draining 30% for every 10% that the slave drains), that if I were to connect them with the left as master the next time, and listen for another 3.5 hours, that I might have both earpieces down to 50-60% charge. They claim 11 hours on the buds per charge, and 55 hours total for buds and case, or 8 hours on the buds with AptX. At the rate I'm going I'd be getting at least 10 hours with AptX, if I don't alternate which ear is master and just leave the one connected as master until it dies (the slave would still have some charge left).
> 
> But, I'm just going to put them back in the case to top them off, and I'm still NOT going to plug the case into USB-C yet. I want to see how many total hours I get before both buds and case are depleted, so I will let the buds decide which one will be master and slave (the manual says the battery level will determine which becomes master). I have about 20-21 hours on them total so far without plugging the case into power.


The longest i've listened to them was for 9 hours straight using APTX and i never alternated between which was the main. just pulled them out and listened. That whole time i never got a low battery warning. Sadly i never did check the percentage, i'd gotten distracted by something. But they're supposed to last 11 hrs total w 4 charges in the case. if you charged them fully once you got them, you've likely got a ways to go. Happy listening.


----------



## Francesco Montanari

voicemaster said:


> What I noticed is that the sound is noticeably louder and more fun with the ANC turned on. Without ANC, the sound is very flat, bass is quite tight and light, mid and high are good tho. They do sound good tho.
> Also, if you want to turn on/off the ANC, you can only do so via the app. there is no control whatsoever for the ANC beside the quick ambiance mode on the earbuds.


Hi friend, do you know how to reset 1more anc? Mine are connecting also I. The case and Infrared sensore is not working since yesterday. I'm going crazy


----------



## jeffri

Anyone picking up the Surface Earbuds?


----------



## voicemaster

Francesco Montanari said:


> Hi friend, do you know how to reset 1more anc? Mine are connecting also I. The case and Infrared sensore is not working since yesterday. I'm going crazy


You mean the bluetooth connection reset right? If so, to need to put the earbuds into the case and push the button in the case.


----------



## clerkpalmer

Finally:  https://www.engadget.com/sony-wf-sp...unced-price-specs-availability-130039393.html

These are what the 1000xm3 should have been in the first place.  I'm reluctant to order on amazon with their non-essential shipping delays however.  I wonder if they will beat out the MTW2?


----------



## Francesco Montanari

voicemaster said:


> You mean the bluetooth connection reset right? If so, to need to put the earbuds into the case and push the button in the case.


no I mean resetting everything... I think I have a bronken unit


----------



## voicemaster

Francesco Montanari said:


> no I mean resetting everything... I think I have a bronken unit


Could you still return it and get replacement?


----------



## hifi80sman

clerkpalmer said:


> Finally:  https://www.engadget.com/sony-wf-sp...unced-price-specs-availability-130039393.html
> 
> These are what the 1000xm3 should have been in the first place.  I'm reluctant to order on amazon with their non-essential shipping delays however.  I wonder if they will beat out the MTW2?


The earhooks are very welcome for me, since I primarily used the XM3 for workouts.  They tended to slip as sweat/oils (gross, I know) began to amass, which would cause me to repeatedly re-adjust and occasionally wipe down both the XM3 and my ears.

I wonder if the XM4 will have earhooks or at least the option to install some kind of fin (if they want a more "sophisticated" look).


----------



## erockg

hifi80sman said:


> The earhooks are very welcome for me, since I primarily used the XM3 for workouts.  They tended to slip as sweat/oils (gross, I know) began to amass, which would cause me to repeatedly re-adjust and occasionally wipe down both the XM3 and my ears.
> 
> I wonder if the XM4 will have earhooks or at least the option to install some kind of fin (if they want a more "sophisticated" look).


I really wish they're rework that form factor.  The XM3's sound wonderful and the ANC is amazing, but the fit has always been horrible for me, not to mention the sound bleed. These new WF-SP800N just look like they reworked the sleekness of the shell but strangely kept a very similar design.  Bummer.


----------



## hifi80sman

erockg said:


> I really wish they're rework that form factor.  The XM3's sound wonderful and the ANC is amazing, but the fit has always been horrible for me, not to mention the sound bleed. These new WF-SP800N just look like they reworked the sleekness of the shell but strangely kept a very similar design.  Bummer.


Yep, this is their mid-year tweak to release the new mid-range in the series and likely the XM4 for the holidays.  I hate Sony so much for making me buy all their stuff!


----------



## Pro-Jules

Wake me up when we get AptX HD or LDAC please!


----------



## Francesco Montanari

voicemaster said:


> Could you still return it and get replacement?


For sure but I want to try before return them


----------



## jant71

erockg said:


> I really wish they're rework that form factor.  The XM3's sound wonderful and the ANC is amazing, but the fit has always been horrible for me, not to mention the sound bleed. These new WF-SP800N just look like they reworked the sleekness of the shell but strangely kept a very similar design.  Bummer.



Yep more of the hourglass they did on the XB700 but they kept the older shape plus fins. Still only one more charge in the case and 10 minutes quick charge gives only one hour. Hopefully the eventual full redesign will address everything and that they don't get cute with the pricing either.


----------



## Luke Skywalker

chinmie said:


> this is the tips that i use with my XM3s. the foam one is some generic no-brand tips that i tried out of curiosity.. turns out it fits great. both the Acoustune and the foam one make the XM3s sits more flush on my ears. when my ears get a bit sweaty, the acoustune still have a potential to dislodge and fall, although the possibility is small. with the foam one, it won't come out even if i run or flick the earpiece on purpose with my finger
> 
> 
> 
> ...


maybe i need to try out some other tips.  I'm using the Acoustune's that I've loved so much for my Lola's but maybe there are better tips for these


----------



## Luke Skywalker

Pro-Jules said:


> Wake me up when we get AptX HD or LDAC please!


True dat!!


----------



## hifi80sman

Luke Skywalker said:


> True dat!!


From what I've read, the XM4 will have LDAC, but only in the 330kbps variant.  That being said, hopefully they can update via firmware to at least 660kbps, otherwise, there's going to be a price premium with negligible gains over AAC (looks like Sony is shying away from aptX altogether and just going AAC/LDAC).


----------



## Ynot1

RBH had wired bluetooth with Aptx HD.


----------



## GeeD (May 7, 2020)

Francesco Montanari said:


> no I mean resetting everything... I think I have a bronken unit



The only one I know of is with the buds in the case, press and hold both buds buttons until they reset and lights turn purple. Take out of case, put back in and lights should go back to red.

1More support actually said to press and hold power buttons until lights go purple, then take both out of case and double click both power buttons 4 times, then put back in case ...but that double click of power buttons didn't seem to do anything on mine.

EDIT: anyone else tried firmware 03.62?  I think ANC is even worse ...bring back 3.31 I say


----------



## clerkpalmer

Ynot1 said:


> RBH had wired bluetooth with Aptx HD.


Actually it had LDAC as well. Reviews were poor at the time. And wired BT is now dead to me.  It shows it can be done but the RBH buds were pretty large.

Turning to the Sonys, I also noticed the Bose SSF are discounted at Best Buy and Bose. I wonder if a new release is immenent. Anyone get a firm release date for the Sony? Amazon is showing 5/31. Best buy has the black available for order but with no shipping date. The blue is not available. I'm itching for a new toy.


----------



## TheLionelHutz (May 7, 2020)

GeeD said:


> The only one I know of is with the buds in the case, press and hold both buds buttons until they reset and lights turn purple. Take out of case, put back in and lights should go back to red.
> 
> 1More support actually said to *press and hold power buttons until lights go purple, then take both out of case and double click both power buttons 4 times, then put back in case* ...but that double click of power buttons didn't seem to do anything on mine.
> 
> EDIT: anyone else tried firmware 03.62?  I think ANC is even worse ...bring back 3.31 I say


That's hilarious. A little reminds me of


----------



## webvan

clerkpalmer said:


> Finally:  https://www.engadget.com/sony-wf-sp...unced-price-specs-availability-130039393.html
> 
> These are what the 1000xm3 should have been in the first place.  I'm reluctant to order on amazon with their non-essential shipping delays however.  I wonder if they will beat out the MTW2?



Nice find, wonder why they're "mid-range", are they missing anything of interest compared to the WF-1000xm3's ? Hopefully that "wing" will make them stay in more ears...


----------



## TYATYA (May 7, 2020)

Excluding two bad things below:
1. Bass overly driven
2. Imbalance sound spl of L and R eventually happened. It creates a badddd imagine, as like "karaoke".

This will be my vote for best TWs in audio, fit, comfort (include Senn mtw, B&O E8 2&3, Wf1000xm3, etc) and also price: EP-T10.






About flaws 
1. Bass over driven. Its easy to tune using eq.
2. Imbalance/bad imagine. 
This is a fcking bad happend about 30 minutes listening.
Does any one have this tw and face the same problem?


----------



## clerkpalmer

webvan said:


> Nice find, wonder why they're "mid-range", are they missing anything of interest compared to the WF-1000xm3's ? Hopefully that "wing" will make them stay in more ears...


The prior version were extremely comfortable and had a rock solid fit for exercise. These look very similar with the wing. As for mid-range or not I don't know. I would be surprised if they sounded any different than the 1000xm3 but maybe the tuning is different with the whole extra bass thing. I'm trying to hold off knowing these will be discounted pretty quickly after launch. Holding off is not my best quality but the pandemic has curbed my buying habits.


----------



## TYATYA

Why does almost TWs has bass heavy tunned???

I just point out only two tws that I can listen to w/o Eqing: Sony wf1000xm3 and B&O E8 series.


----------



## tma6

TYATYA said:


> Why does almost TWs has bass heavy tunned???
> 
> I just point out only two tws that I can listen to w/o Eqing: Sony wf1000xm3 and B&O E8 series.



Nuarl N6 Pro my dude!


----------



## DigDub

TYATYA said:


> Excluding two bad things below:
> 1. Bass overly driven
> 2. Imbalance sound spl of L and R eventually happened. It creates a badddd imagine, as like "karaoke".
> 
> ...


I have these. The bass are indeed too much but makes them sound fun. No problem with L R though. The thing I disliked about them is they cannot be turned off and on without the case.


----------



## howdy (May 7, 2020)

As some here say the XM3s are junk I just don't see how this is possible at all! I try and read these with some non basis opinion and try and not say anything but here I am, saying something. The XM3s are amazing for a TWS and I don't think people who give it a negative rating are giving it a fair chance. When I first listen to them I kinda thought the same, but with further listening these are amazing!!
These are not meant for extreme movements of any sort and where never suggested as such. Just put them back in relax and just Listen to them. Just love that sound!


----------



## clerkpalmer

howdy said:


> As some here say the XM3s are junk I just don't see how this is possible at all! I try and read these with some non basis opinion and try and not say anything but here I am, saying something. The XM3s are amazing for a TWS and I don't think people who give it a negative rating are giving it a fair chance. When I first listen to them I kinda thought the same, but with further listening these are amazing!!
> These are not meant for extreme movements of any sort and where never suggested as such. Just put them back in relax and just Listen to them. Just love that sound!



The design is possibly the worst I have seen particularly for a large company. They are useless for exercise both because they move constantly and because Sony didn't add any sweat protection. They do sound good and the ANC is decent but the drawbacks kill them. If I can't move and sweat why bother? Just use a wired desktop setup. The new 800s seem to address the shortcomings. I predict they will cannibalize the 1000s.


----------



## TYATYA

DigDub said:


> I have these. The bass are indeed too much but makes them sound fun. No problem with L R though. The thing I disliked about them is they cannot be turned off and on without the case.


Graphen does good job for mid and highs, similar to what DLC coat does.
Bcs of having dsp in any tws, I really dont understand why manufactures did not set a properly FR for normal user but basshead? It is too easier than wires inear which much much harder to be tunned.

All tunned for bassheaddddd. I must take some aspirin if I try to listen up to 1hour.
Crazy.


----------



## Francesco Montanari

GeeD said:


> The only one I know of is with the buds in the case, press and hold both buds buttons until they reset and lights turn purple. Take out of case, put back in and lights should go back to red.
> 
> 1More support actually said to press and hold power buttons until lights go purple, then take both out of case and double click both power buttons 4 times, then put back in case ...but that double click of power buttons didn't seem to do anything on mine.
> 
> EDIT: anyone else tried firmware 03.62?  I think ANC is even worse ...bring back 3.31 I say


Thanks a lot!

Is it possible to downgrade firmware?


----------



## bronco1015

hifi80sman said:


> From what I've read, the XM4 will have LDAC, but only in the 330kbps variant.  That being said, hopefully they can update via firmware to at least 660kbps, otherwise, there's going to be a price premium with negligible gains over AAC (looks like Sony is shying away from aptX altogether and just going AAC/LDAC).


IMO, Sony will probably never have APTX,  since they created LDAC. Between Qualcom, Apple and mediaTek all making improvements to their respective SOC's for things like latency, power management etc, plus LDAC being part of android since Oreo, and iPhones using AAC, it wouldn't surprise me if they just focused on getting LDAC on their products going forward.


----------



## bronco1015

clerkpalmer said:


> Finally:  https://www.engadget.com/sony-wf-sp...unced-price-specs-availability-130039393.html
> 
> These are what the 1000xm3 should have been in the first place.  I'm reluctant to order on amazon with their non-essential shipping delays however.  I wonder if they will beat out the MTW2?


Something a reviewer from Digital trends wrote about the ANC makes me wonder if the transparency mode would be overwhelmed by wind noises if it were turned on while biking. heres what they wrote.
"
Sony won’t say which technology runs the noise canceling on the SP800N, but we know this: It works  very nicely.
Outside is a different story. When using ANC while walking and jogging, I found that even the  slightest breeze was causing unwanted noise as the external mics mistakenly tried to compensate for  a sound that wasn’t really there.." I think this stuck out to me the way it did because i recently had a pair of clear flowII headphones, and when they were in transparency mode, or ambiant mode as they called it, that exact thing happened. Wind of any kind and even cabin noise in a shuttle flooded the mics and made the audio cut out and it was drowned out by the noises of the cab, wind etc.


----------



## voicemaster

After spending some time with ATH-ANC300TW,


TYATYA said:


> Why does almost TWs has bass heavy tunned???
> 
> I just point out only two tws that I can listen to w/o Eqing: Sony wf1000xm3 and B&O E8 series.


Nuarl N6 pro, mifo07, ath-anc300tw don't have bass heavy tuning.


----------



## GeeD

TheLionelHutz said:


> That's hilarious. A little reminds me of




Now THAT is hilarious 😂 has to be a joke, surely 



Francesco Montanari said:


> Thanks a lot!
> 
> Is it possible to downgrade firmware?



That was what I was trying to get out of them, but alas no.  It is interesting to read that other ANC seem to have the same kind of sound balance changes when ANC is applied.  Almost putting me off the whole idea of it to be honest.


----------



## webvan (May 8, 2020)

bronco1015 said:


> Something a reviewer from Digital trends wrote about the ANC makes me wonder if the transparency mode would be overwhelmed by wind noises if it were turned on while biking. heres what they wrote.
> "
> Sony won’t say which technology runs the noise canceling on the SP800N, but we know this: It works  very nicely.
> Outside is a different story. When using ANC while walking and jogging, I found that even the  slightest breeze was causing unwanted noise as the external mics mistakenly tried to compensate for  a sound that wasn’t really there.." I think this stuck out to me the way it did because i recently had a pair of clear flowII headphones, and when they were in transparency mode, or ambiant mode as they called it, that exact thing happened. Wind of any kind and even cabin noise in a shuttle flooded the mics and made the audio cut out and it was drowned out by the noises of the cab, wind etc.



A "reviewer" suprised that ANC mics pick up wind noise ? Really ?! Everyone and their dog knows this, it's just the way the technology works, the mics listen to the outside noise so the ANC circuit can try to cancel it. There's an easy fix : TURN OFF ANC ! Now some brands, like Sony have a "wind noise cancellation transparency/setting" and while it mitigates the problem somehow it's useless, just turn off transparency/ANC.

What's more surprising, and it might be a bug, is that the MTW2 still pick up wind noise when ANC is OFF, unlike say the Echobuds.

As for the XM3 being labelled "junk", I don't remember seeing that mentioned here, however they are indeed the worst fitting TWS I have ever come across, possibly only "bettered" by the first ones I got 3 or 4 years ago, the first ones by QCY. If the SP-800N have the same electronics with a decent fit I'll be sure to give them a try.


----------



## karloil

Not too shabby. Now my 2-Pin IEM are now TWs


----------



## bronco1015

GeeD said:


> Now THAT is hilarious 😂 has to be a joke, surely
> 
> 
> 
> That was what I was trying to get out of them, but alas no.  It is interesting to read that other ANC seem to have the same kind of sound balance changes when ANC is applied.  Almost putting me off the whole idea of it to be honest.


whether you like the sound of them or not is one thing, but i've been pleasantly surprised at the MTW2, in that the sound doesn't varry from passive to ANC, it stays consistent.


----------



## bronco1015

webvan said:


> A "reviewer" suprised that ANC mics pick up wind noise ? Really ?! Everyone and their dog knows this, it's just the way the technology works, the mics listen to the outside noise so the ANC circuit can try to cancel it. There's an easy fix : TURN OFF ANC ! Now some brands, like Sony have a "wind noise cancellation transparency/setting" and while it mitigates the problem somehow it's useless, just turn off transparency/ANC.
> 
> What's more surprising, and it might be a bug, is that the MTW2 still pick up wind noise when ANC is OFF, unlike say the Echobuds.
> 
> As for the XM3 being labelled "jun", I don't remember seeing that mentioned here, however they are indeed the worst fitting TWS I have ever come across, possibly only "bettered" by the first ones I got 3 or 4 years ago, the first ones by QCY. If the SP-800N have the same electronics with a decent fit I'll be sure to give them a try.


I gave him the benefit of the doubt and figured if he took the time to write about it in his review, it might be worse than normal and that's why i shared it here.


----------



## howdy

clerkpalmer said:


> The design is possibly the worst I have seen particularly for a large company. They are useless for exercise both because they move constantly and because Sony didn't add any sweat protection. They do sound good and the ANC is decent but the drawbacks kill them. If I can't move and sweat why bother? Just use a wired desktop setup. The new 800s seem to address the shortcomings. I predict they will cannibalize the 1000s.


Well to be fair they where not advertised as headphones for the gym. Sony does have different ones intended for the gym as you probably know. 
As I mentioned a week or so back, I wore mine outside blowing leaves with my gas leaf blower and not only did they stay in my ears but they blocked most of the sound from the leaf blower. 
I'm using Spinfits on the Sonys and they sound great and stay put. 
I so admit they look bad but it doesn't bother me.


----------



## Luke Skywalker

tma6 said:


> Nuarl N6 Pro my dude!


True dat!  How sweet would it be if Nuarl came out with an N7 with ANC as good as the Sony buds + LDAC 900 kbps   I'd happily pay $300 for them


----------



## inf.h5n1

Peter Yoon said:


> We have never shipped M5-TWS Custom to anyone yet.  I would be interested in knowing what product he/she purchased.


 When will that happen btw?


----------



## C_Lindbergh (May 8, 2020)

After more than 1 month of owning the Sennheiser Momentum 2, i'm overall really pleased. I doubt we'll see anything that's a significant upgrade until Bluetooth 5.2 and LC3/LC3 plus codec becomes available. I do really look forward to that since they will introduce many features that will become the new standard unlike Qualcomm and their proprietary bull. Qualcomm actually removed the APTX LL feature on their newer chipset... So there's no way of having low latency audio if your earbuds are using a Qualcomm chip. Stupid crap like that is why I really dislike Qualcomm.

Only downside is that you'll have to buy new devices, not only new earbuds but also a new phone/source that actually supports Bluetooth 5.2. Hopefully we'll also so plenty of adapters for other uses like TV/PC.

But I do wonder when BT 5.2/LC3 will be avaible now with the lockdown that's happening all over,  I guess maybe early next year?


----------



## Peter Yoon

inf.h5n1 said:


> When will that happen btw?


We are working diligently to get the first batch of orders shipped out within May.  There is a wide variation of available real estate per user and we've had to make several adjustments to stabilize the PCBA, not to mention the delays in small components due to supply chain effect from COVID-19.


----------



## BobJS

I decided to send my ATH-ANC300TW  back.  They're OK, but they don't really do anything that isn't done better by another TW I already own.  Price point is too high.


----------



## TYATYA

DigDub said:


> I have these. The bass are indeed too much but makes them sound fun. No problem with L R though. The thing I disliked about them is they cannot be turned off and on without the case.



EPT10 become xxxcellent with this setting on my Neutronmp app running on SP1000.
I do not use the tws as a combo, but just to confirm how potential that tw is.
Not any more overly driven bass. Lively, organic sounding.
In term of FR and clarity it reach wf1000xm3 and BO E8 3.0
Speed is top1 of 3.
E8 become a bit metalic highs after 2 hours listening to EPT10

Iphone with Neutron may be best solution for EPT10


----------



## hifi80sman

C_Lindbergh said:


> After more than 1 month of owning the Sennheiser Momentum 2, i'm overall really pleased. I doubt we'll see anything that's a significant upgrade until Bluetooth 5.2 and LC3/LC3 plus codec becomes available. I do really look forward to that since they will introduce many features that will become the new standard unlike Qualcomm and their proprietary bull. Qualcomm actually removed the APTX LL feature on their newer chipset... So there's no way of having low latency audio if your earbuds are using a Qualcomm chip. Stupid crap like that is why I really dislike Qualcomm.
> 
> Only downside is that you'll have to buy new devices, not only new earbuds but also a new phone/source that actually supports Bluetooth 5.2. Hopefully we'll also so plenty of adapters for other uses like TV/PC.
> 
> But I do wonder when BT 5.2/LC3 will be avaible now with the lockdown that's happening all over,  I guess maybe early next year?


One of the things I'm looking forward to in LC3/LC3 Plus is the high speech quality when using a headset, obviously seriously lacking with the standard protocols.


----------



## dasadab

clerkpalmer said:


> Currently using Audeze i3 for critical listening. They are a jack of all trades. Sound amazing with the Cipher cable and a cell phone. Also come with a Bluetooth cable. And can be run wired through your home set up. I see very little reason to try something new. I love that they are technically an iem but they just rest in your ears without deep insertion. Highly recommended.



Hi. I have the Sony XM3, the Sennheiser‘s v. 1 and the Nuarl P2.  They all sound fine. I like the Nuarls best, at the moment. They are a little more forward and clean in the mid range.
But... When I listen to them I say “good“ or “nice“, but never “wow.“
When I listen to my Ibasso IT104s, particularly with a DAP (I know, unfair comparison) I say “wow!”

Given that I have spent so much money trying, over the past year, three “high-end” wireless Bluetooth earbuds, I am very interested in your
Thoughts about the BT cable pairing with the Audeze i3. I also note that Audeze is discounting the Audeze 10 to $200.  Even though the current price is crazy, do you think that the Audeze i3 is a “wow” with an iPhone? Thanks for your thoughts 

PS. I love the sound of my Ibassos, but the form factor doesn’t work great for my ears.


----------



## clerkpalmer

dasadab said:


> Given that I have spent so much money trying, over the past year, three “high-end” wireless Bluetooth earbuds, I am very interested in your
> Thoughts about the BT cable pairing with the Audeze i3. I also note that Audeze is discounting the Audeze 10 to $200.  Even though the current price is crazy, do you think that the Audeze i3 is a “wow” with an iPhone? Thanks for your thoughts



The i3 is definitely a "WOW" headphone straight from an iPhone using the cipher cable or over android using the Anker adapter.  The combo is so good, I sold off my desktop amp and DAC.  My stuff was never high end but I had previously owned LCD-2 classics and HiFimans Edition XXs over some decent desktop equipment.  The i3 can hang with those full size cans and when it comes to spaciousness beats them handily.  I called them a jack of all trades because they are portable and can be used with cipher, BT or wired to a desktop amp.  I'm sure some audiophiles may prefer them hooked to a desktop set up but I would be pretty surprised if it beat the cipher cable.  The BT cable does result in a drop off in SQ.  It doesn't support LDAC or AptxHD.  It's a nice option if you need it but I don't really use it.  The i3 is pricey but for my 1 set of critical listening headphones, I don't think there is anything that can beat it in that price range.  I toyed with trying the HiFiman BT cans but I'm pretty convinced it won't improve on the i3.  As for the isine 10s, they are great little headphones and steal at 200 with cipher cable.  The i3 are definitely better but the are 4 times the price.  The law of diminishing returns definitely applies.  You could also probably grab an isine20 in the classifieds for $300 to $400 and that gets you pretty close to the i3.  Good luck.  I too am chasing high end true wireless but I think the technology has hit its ceiling for the time being and until someone gets LDAC into a true wireless setup or more advanced codecs become available.


----------



## popandilaro

Where can the Bomaker SIFI be bought in Europe? Amazon.de lists them unavailable and so does the official bomaker website. Is there any way to buy these at the moment?


----------



## Sebulr

popandilaro said:


> Where can the Bomaker SIFI be bought in Europe? Amazon.de lists them unavailable and so does the official bomaker website. Is there any way to buy these at the moment?



Available at amazon.co.uk for £40. I heartily recommend them.


----------



## popandilaro

Sebulr said:


> Available at amazon.co.uk for £40. I heartily recommend them.


----------



## Sebulr

Weird. I can order it


----------



## erockg (May 8, 2020)

BobJS said:


> I decided to send my ATH-ANC300TW  back.  They're OK, but they don't really do anything that isn't done better by another TW I already own.  Price point is too high.


I'm still holding onto mine.  On the fence.  The ANC is very very good.  Up there with my Senn. MTW2.  Soundstage is wider on the MTW2 which also have more bass.  I was listening to The Cult - Sonic Temple Remastered with the ATH and they were hypnotic.  Jury is still out for me...


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

C_Lindbergh said:


> After more than 1 month of owning the Sennheiser Momentum 2, i'm overall really pleased. I doubt we'll see anything that's a significant upgrade until Bluetooth 5.2 and LC3/LC3 plus codec becomes available. I do really look forward to that since they will introduce many features that will become the new standard unlike Qualcomm and their proprietary bull. Qualcomm actually removed the APTX LL feature on their newer chipset... So there's no way of having low latency audio if your earbuds are using a Qualcomm chip. Stupid crap like that is why I really dislike Qualcomm.
> 
> Only downside is that you'll have to buy new devices, not only new earbuds but also a new phone/source that actually supports Bluetooth 5.2. Hopefully we'll also so plenty of adapters for other uses like TV/PC.
> 
> But I do wonder when BT 5.2/LC3 will be avaible now with the lockdown that's happening all over,  I guess maybe early next year?



I thought SBC was also a low latency codec?


----------



## webvan

Sebulr said:


> Available at amazon.co.uk for £40. I heartily recommend them.



Mind the fit though, mine tend to "pop out" although the very shallow tips help in that respect.


----------



## hifi80sman

HeadphoneAddict said:


> I thought SBC was also a low latency codec?


No, SBC is not low latency.  Specific to latency, aptX LL is where the you'd want to look.  The benefit of the new codec is that it's the new standard baseline, which addresses a lot of the issues with SBC (call quality, audio quality/artifacts, latency, etc.), so even without AAC, aptX, or LDAC, you'd still be in good shape and manufacturers can likely keep their costs down.


----------



## voicemaster (May 8, 2020)

Decided to return the ATH-ANC300TW. The sound is nothing special especially without ANC turned on. ANC is great and the feature to do quick ambiance mode with a single press of a button is awesome. Speaking of ambiance mode, this has the best I've heard yet. Very natural sounding and loud enough to actually leave the buds on the ear and having a conversation. Fit and build quality is great, case is kinda bulky for the amount of battery inside. So, with the refund money, I decided to purchase Samsung Galaxy Buds Plus. I love my original GBuds and I think it sounds good.


----------



## bronco1015

voicemaster said:


> Decided to return the ATH-ANC300TW. The sound is nothing special especially without ANC turned on. ANC is great and the feature to do quick ambiance mode with a single press of a button is awesome. Speaking of ambiance mode, this has the best I've heard yet. Very natural sounding and loud enough to actually leave the buds on the ear and having a conversation. Fit and build quality is great, case is kinda bulky for the amount of battery inside. So, with the refund money, I decided to purchase Samsung Galaxy Buds Plus. I love my original GBuds and I think it sounds good.


If you want to spend some mor money, the transparency on the mtw2 is really good. natural and pipes in the outside world at a good volume.


----------



## voicemaster

bronco1015 said:


> If you want to spend some mor money, the transparency on the mtw2 is really good. natural and pipes in the outside world at a good volume.


Was thinking to use the GB+ for portable use because the case is tiny and it connects super fast to my samsung S20+. And I don't need ANC tbh.


----------



## DynamicEars

voicemaster said:


> Was thinking to use the GB+ for portable use because the case is tiny and it connects super fast to my samsung S20+. And I don't need ANC tbh.


Do you plan to get KZ Z1? Since youre a KZ collector and TWS collector. I would to know your impressions about their new 10mm DD TWS (even though tech side is bad with 2 hours batt and micro usb)


----------



## voicemaster

DynamicEars said:


> Do you plan to get KZ Z1? Since youre a KZ collector and TWS collector. I would to know your impressions about their new 10mm DD TWS (even though tech side is bad with 2 hours batt and micro usb)


Most likely not. Knowing KZ, they will put out a new and better one pretty soon. I will probably buy their TWS until they have "terminator" on its name lol.


----------



## DynamicEars

voicemaster said:


> Most likely not. Knowing KZ, they will put out a new and better one pretty soon. I will probably buy their TWS until they have "terminator" on its name lol.



Thats a 30 products from Z1 onwards like ZSX lol


----------



## VICosPhi

karloil said:


> Not too shabby. Now my 2-Pin IEM are now TWs



Nice, I might get these for  my FH7. How apparent is the "hissing" noise and are there any microphonics if you run?



d3myz said:


> I currently own:
> Liberty 2 Pro ver. 3, Tranya Rimor, B530 and T3, FIIL T1X, Sony XM3, Ear Fun Free, Tronsmart Spunky Beats, 1more Stylish, Anbes 359/SSK BT01, Mpow T5/M5, Mavin Air-XR. QCY T1 and T1 pro, Chisana C1L, Lystar J29, AirPods Pro, Tiso i4. They are all great pretty great for different things. I have a lot of impressions in this thread of each pair.


Can you comment on which one has better bass and sound quality between Anker Liberty 2 Pro vs Sony XM3 ?


----------



## morike

Sorry i didnt read everything but are there some higher tier semi/fully open (no IEM) TWS earbuds? Im coming from a Nicehck EBX and tried my first TWS Sabbat X12 but i would like a more balanced with more details and a bit more airy sound signature. is there something out there?


----------



## RobinFood

morike said:


> Sorry i didnt read everything but are there some higher tier semi/fully open (no IEM) TWS earbuds? Im coming from a Nicehck EBX and tried my first TWS Sabbat X12 but i would like a more balanced with more details and a bit more airy sound signature. is there something out there?



I haven't tried it yet but the edifier tws200 looks really promising! 

Other than that you could get a bt20s adapter for your EBX since it is an mmcx earbud and rock them tws style!


----------



## assassin10000

morike said:


> Sorry i didnt read everything but are there some higher tier semi/fully open (no IEM) TWS earbuds? Im coming from a Nicehck EBX and tried my first TWS Sabbat X12 but i would like a more balanced with more details and a bit more airy sound signature. is there something out there?





RobinFood said:


> Other than that you could get a bt20s adapter for your EBX since it is an mmcx earbud and rock them tws style!



^ this.




Trn BT20 (aac/sbc, lower gain version) in above pic.

Ttn BT20S (aptx/aac/sbc, higher gain/output)
Fiio UTWS1 (similar to bt20s, but with volume control and possibly slightly less gain/lower noise floor)
Fostex TM2
Shure TWS adapter.


----------



## dasadab

clerkpalmer said:


> The i3 is definitely a "WOW" headphone straight from an iPhone using the cipher cable or over android using the Anker adapter.  The combo is so good, I sold off my desktop amp and DAC.  My stuff was never high end but I had previously owned LCD-2 classics and HiFimans Edition XXs over some decent desktop equipment.  The i3 can hang with those full size cans and when it comes to spaciousness beats them handily.  I called them a jack of all trades because they are portable and can be used with cipher, BT or wired to a desktop amp.  I'm sure some audiophiles may prefer them hooked to a desktop set up but I would be pretty surprised if it beat the cipher cable.  The BT cable does result in a drop off in SQ.  It doesn't support LDAC or AptxHD.  It's a nice option if you need it but I don't really use it.  The i3 is pricey but for my 1 set of critical listening headphones, I don't think there is anything that can beat it in that price range.  I toyed with trying the HiFiman BT cans but I'm pretty convinced it won't improve on the i3.  As for the isine 10s, they are great little headphones and steal at 200 with cipher cable.  The i3 are definitely better but the are 4 times the price.  The law of diminishing returns definitely applies.  You could also probably grab an isine20 in the classifieds for $300 to $400 and that gets you pretty close to the i3.  Good luck.  I too am chasing high end true wireless but I think the technology has hit its ceiling for the time being and until someone gets LDAC into a true wireless setup or more advanced codecs become available.



Thanks.  Jumped in with the i3.  Can’t wait.


----------



## Dijitalism

For those with APPs, do you experience a static (almost windy sounding) noise when there’s no music playing in ANC and Transparency modes? I’ve just had both of my APPs replaced because of this, and the replacements still exhibit the same issue. This noise isn’t apparent in the ‘Off’ mode, however.


----------



## clerkpalmer

dasadab said:


> Thanks.  Jumped in with the i3.  Can’t wait.


Congrats. Shoot me a pm after get them and let me know what you think. Listening to mine now.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Dijitalism said:


> For those with APPs, do you experience a static (almost windy sounding) noise when there’s no music playing in ANC and Transparency modes? I’ve just had both of my APPs replaced because of this, and the replacements still exhibit the same issue. This noise isn’t apparent in the ‘Off’ mode, however.


I reported that mine with the 2D15 firmware have a little bit of background white noise now in ANC mode with no music, but it’s very quiet and not intrusive and does not sound like wind.


----------



## cleg

My video about KZ Z1. In short, almost like S2, just a bit better resolution and bit more V-shapeness


----------



## Inear

How big is Sony WF-1000xm3 case are they pocket friendly?


----------



## assassin10000

Inear said:


> How big is Sony WF-1000xm3 case are they pocket friendly?



Pocketable, if you have empty or largish pockets.

I meant to post these comparison pics earlier but this works out to help answer your question .

L2P, XM3, Air-XR and X12 Pro cases and earphones.


----------



## Luke Skywalker

inf.h5n1 said:


> When will that happen btw?


Yes I’d buy these today.


----------



## Luke Skywalker

Anyone know of any audiophile quality TWS’s coming out later this year? The Sony XM3’s have amazing ANC but mediocre sound quality to me. The NUARL N6 Pro’s sound great to me but no ANC. I definitely need AAC and Aptx


----------



## SilverEars (May 9, 2020)

Dijitalism said:


> For those with APPs, do you experience a static (almost windy sounding) noise when there’s no music playing in ANC and Transparency modes? I’ve just had both of my APPs replaced because of this, and the replacements still exhibit the same issue. This noise isn’t apparent in the ‘Off’ mode, however.


I had an issue with my left earpiece causing some static tapping noise periodically in certain cases when I'm jogging. I get no windy noises either. I called up Apple and got replacement pieces.  It's interesting how they do the replacements.  They don't replace the whole set, they just replace the part that is the issue.  Oddly, they sent each earpiece on a separate packge with additional tips in them.  I got two tracking from Apple for each earpieces.  So, weird.

These earpieces came with 3 sets of tips, and I notice the tips had wax guard on them.  The old ones I had didn't have wax guard.  Weird.

After using APP for jogging on the streets I'm starting to realize that earpieces start to slide out while jogging.  Stays put most of the time, but slides out tiny bit at a time over a period of stomping the feet on the ground.


----------



## jant71

JVC with a little sports model...









They are BT5.0 Class1, IP55, and 4 hour battery. They don't have ambient mode but use ambient tips if you so choose. Might want to wait for the price to drop some from the $79.95 list price but might be a good workout pair when $50 or less if they put a good sounding driver in it.


----------



## clerkpalmer

Anywhere to get the kz t1 in the USA? Quoting June July delivery dates.  By then I could be dead.


----------



## d3myz

TYATYA said:


> Why does almost TWs has bass heavy tunned???
> 
> I just point out only two tws that I can listen to w/o Eqing: Sony wf1000xm3 and B&O E8 series.


The new Tevi's are pretty much perfect, even though i'd like more bass, they sound really excellent.


----------



## BigZ12

d3myz said:


> The new Tevi's are pretty much perfect, even though i'd like more bass, they sound really excellent.


Suddenly my new Tevis got battery drain issues with the case . The old ones that are not in use, have been on 2 of 4 lights for "ages" now. 
The new one goes down one light every other day without use. I haven't used them lately, both for checking the battery drain and because I love my Senn' MTW2 with Symbio F tips  
I can of course switch case, but I've dropped the old one on the floor making the lid very loose. It's on, but very "flimsy".


----------



## Bobbetybob

Been after a new pair of headphones for a while and ordered some Galaxy Buds+ for a good price but now I keep mulling over wether I made the right call. 

It was between them and the Moondrop Starfield. I mostly listen at home but I do like the convenience of TWS for just being able to move around the house and for when I go out and about. 

Am I sacrificing any really noticeable sound quality when I'd just be playing stuff from Spotify though my iPad Pro on the Starfield?


----------



## Spidermanxd

Bobbetybob said:


> Been after a new pair of headphones for a while and ordered some Galaxy Buds+ for a good price but now I keep mulling over wether I made the right call.
> 
> It was between them and the Moondrop Starfield. I mostly listen at home but I do like the convenience of TWS for just being able to move around the house and for when I go out and about.
> 
> Am I sacrificing any really noticeable sound quality when I'd just be playing stuff from Spotify though my iPad Pro on the Starfield?


For what you paid for the buds+, tevi and mavin air xr sounded way better then buds+


----------



## Canabuc

I have the jabra 65t liberty 2 pro and the buds plus.
Overall Anker has the most impressive sound when eq'd. 
However I really like the sound on the buds plus. Not sure why more people aren't talking positive about them.  The mids and highs are great. Bass is tight and has low extension even if there is not as much quantity as the L2P. Sound stage not as wide as L2P. Find some genres I prefer buds plus however. Especially acoustic and vocals.
Also they are more comfortable smaller and have ambient mode..


----------



## Aevum

Theres currently an offer on amazon spain with the sony going for 169 euros, i have a pair of Shanling MTW100 and thought if its worth the upgrade or are there better things in that price range.


----------



## JOSELICHI

Aevum said:


> Theres currently an offer on amazon spain with the sony going for 169 euros, i have a pair of Shanling MTW100 and thought if its worth the upgrade or are there better things in that price range.


For 169 euros, its a winner option


----------



## Ynot1

At the risk of too much information, I still use wired bluetooth in the bathroom. I liken it to mitigation to influence of phobia to dropping my earphones in a bad place. But tws with balance armature gives me a slightly different concern. I heard ba are more prone to failure from dropping. And tws looks like more at risk to dropping. Is this more a myth than reality?


----------



## jant71

Ynot1 said:


> At the risk of too much information, I still use wired bluetooth in the bathroom. I liken it to mitigation to influence of phobia to dropping my earphones in a bad place. But tws with balance armature gives me a slightly different concern. I heard ba are more prone to failure from dropping. And tws looks like more at risk to dropping. Is this more a myth than reality?



A myth. A driver can stand shock as good as it's wiring soldering job is and how well it is mounted in the housing. Any driver. planar, BA, dynamic, etc. can stop working after a fall. BA are encased so they might not survive moisture as well as a dynamic if it were to actually get up in them so you might not want to drop them in the bowl.


----------



## tma6

Ynot1 said:


> At the risk of too much information, I still use wired bluetooth in the bathroom. I liken it to mitigation to influence of phobia to dropping my earphones in a bad place. But tws with balance armature gives me a slightly different concern. I heard ba are more prone to failure from dropping. And tws looks like more at risk to dropping. Is this more a myth than reality?



Think it depends on the build quality of the earbuds themselves. The Liberty 2 Pros have a BA and they are impervious to my clumsiness.


----------



## assassin10000

Ynot1 said:


> At the risk of too much information, I still use wired bluetooth in the bathroom. I liken it to mitigation to influence of phobia to dropping my earphones in a bad place. But tws with balance armature gives me a slightly different concern. I heard ba are more prone to failure from dropping. And tws looks like more at risk to dropping. Is this more a myth than reality?



BA's are more delicate than Dynamic Drivers, but by how much I couldn't say.

But the majority of TWS are DD, so not much of a worry unless you specifically want a BA TWS.


----------



## Ynot1

OK.


----------



## hifi80sman

tma6 said:


> Think it depends on the build quality of the earbuds themselves. The Liberty 2 Pros have a BA and they are impervious to my clumsiness.


Hey, how were those Boltune's?
https://www.amazon.com/Wireless-Cancelling-Boltune-Bluetooth-Waterproof/dp/B08395B6RB/


----------



## tma6

hifi80sman said:


> Hey, how were those Boltune's?
> https://www.amazon.com/Wireless-Cancelling-Boltune-Bluetooth-Waterproof/dp/B08395B6RB/



Pretty meh imo. Not terrible for the price, decent mid range and bass was clean. Highs very rolled off. ANC was weak. Call quality was pretty mediocre. Overall not bad given the price, but those anc mpows look better.


----------



## tma6 (May 10, 2020)

Bass was actually a lil bloated from my recollection now that I think about it, but decent impact.


----------



## Sam L

Anyone still actively listening to their echo buds? I haven't in a couple months. The signature has changed substantially in one of the firmware updates. I was wondering if anyone has noted the changes?


----------



## hifi80sman

Sam L said:


> Anyone still actively listening to their echo buds? I haven't in a couple months. The signature has changed substantially in one of the firmware updates. I was wondering if anyone has noted the changes?


Honestly, I haven't heard much about them just in general.  They came to the party with some light beer, so you know how that goes.


----------



## DynamicEars

Anyone else have new KZ Z1?


----------



## voicemaster

Just got my new GBuds+ and I am really enjoying it. Very nice ambiance mode, a huge upgrade from the original one. It doesn't sound robotic and less hiss. Also it is much louder too. The sound is very similar to the original with slightly more impact on bass and less edgy on the treble. Otherwise, they are pretty identical in sound, fit and build. 
Connected to my S20+, it sounds good, but connected to my laptop, I can hear a little bit of crackle (low bitrate). Maybe it because when connected to my S20+, it uses a better codec than when connected to my windows laptop.


----------



## Canabuc

Another interesting finding with my buds +.

I got my father in law a pair which he asked me to return as he also owns hearing aids and doesn't want to swap them out. 

Anyways. I tried his for fun connected to my phone. Same tips and wings and same settings.

Well my pair has substantially more deep bass.

Don't know why  tried swapping his tips to mine and vice versa. His tips seemed slightly different in that the fit was harder to put on maybe because they were new and mine are nearly 3 weeks old.

So not sure if this is a batch thing as his serial was a bit newer than mine or if there is some break in on mine which really improved the bass.

I say this only because some people have knocked these buds as bass light. I agree compared to L2P, but there was really good bass on mine e and so so bass on his. So give the buds some time and burn in. Or try exchanging them if you find the bass lacking after 2 weeks of use.


----------



## chinmie

Canabuc said:


> Another interesting finding with my buds +.
> 
> I got my father in law a pair which he asked me to return as he also owns hearing aids and doesn't want to swap them out.
> 
> ...



Just checking, but do both your unit and your father in law's have the exact same EQ setting on the app? Because TWS like these usually store their EQ changes on the unit, so it will sound as they previously EQd even when connecting it to other phones


----------



## Canabuc

Yes. Both on dynamic both using galaxy note 8 with Dolby atmos on in music setting with stock Samsung equalizer set flat. 
I set his earbuds up for him and had set it to dynamic. I'm not sure he even used them. I think he decided earbuds are not for him not specifically these,but any


----------



## Canabuc

Just to add the overall sound signature is the same just the bass is more powerful and present. Not earth shattering difference but it's there.


----------



## chinmie

Canabuc said:


> Yes. Both on dynamic both using galaxy note 8 with Dolby atmos on in music setting with stock Samsung equalizer set flat.
> I set his earbuds up for him and had set it to dynamic. I'm not sure he even used them. I think he decided earbuds are not for him not specifically these,but any



if both are on the same exact firmware and using the same exact eartips size and type, but still differs in sound, then we could conclude that there's difference in production. that's a bit concerning, because my two units of older Gbuds sound the same. both my XM3s also have no difference in sound between both of them


----------



## Canabuc

chinmie said:


> if both are on the same exact firmware and using the same exact eartips size and type, but still differs in sound, then we could conclude that there's difference in production. that's a bit concerning, because my two units of older Gbuds sound the same. both my XM3s also have no difference in sound between both of them


Well there are 2 possibilities.  If one is a later  manufacture date then it is possible that they made a subtle change to the  tuning of the bass driver.

Or  maybe since I have used my buds filler the past 3 weeks maybe 40 hours that these have broken in a bit and it has changed the bass performance.

Neither sound bad. Just one has more prominent lows.


----------



## assassin10000

Canabuc said:


> Well there are 2 possibilities.  If one is a later  manufacture date then it is possible that they made a subtle change to the  tuning of the bass driver.
> 
> Or  maybe since I have used my buds filler the past 3 weeks maybe 40 hours that these have broken in a bit and it has changed the bass performance.
> 
> Neither sound bad. Just one has more prominent lows.



Could be either, like you said.


----------



## DigDub

voicemaster said:


> Just got my new GBuds+ and I am really enjoying it. Very nice ambiance mode, a huge upgrade from the original one. It doesn't sound robotic and less hiss. Also it is much louder too. The sound is very similar to the original with slightly more impact on bass and less edgy on the treble. Otherwise, they are pretty identical in sound, fit and build.
> Connected to my S20+, it sounds good, but connected to my laptop, I can hear a little bit of crackle (low bitrate). Maybe it because when connected to my S20+, it uses a better codec than when connected to my windows laptop.


I find the gbuds+ have a thinner mid-range than the original gbuds, I prefer the sound of the fuller sounding gbuds. The ambiance mode on the gbuds+ are much better though.


----------



## Canabuc

DigDub said:


> I find the gbuds+ have a thinner mid-range than the original gbuds, I prefer the sound of the fuller sounding gbuds. The ambiance mode on the gbuds+ are much better though.


Well on one set the sound is full and warmer the other set are a bit more cold and thin


----------



## DigDub

Canabuc said:


> Well on one set the sound is full and warmer the other set are a bit more cold and thin


It seems like there's different drivers tuning used on the gbuds+ then. My set has treble that is too hot and makes listening cymbals unbearable.


----------



## TYATYA

Aukey EPT10 is my best experience on sound of tws sample I ever listen or try: sony xm3, senn mwt, B&o e8 2,3, jabra65t, 

I must clairify using condition: 
Galaxy note8.
Uapp parametric eq as below(in case using graphic eq of the uapp, even closest bands are set, sound is much blurry than that of Peq).

My dap SP1000 is loser in bluetooth fighting, even it pair to any above tws(*)

I dont mean galaxy note8 did a big thing here. In fact it is crappyyyy sounding device!
I dont mean EPT10 is a beautiful sound tw neigther.
(EPT10 has bload bass sounding, worst on note8 and may be many other samsungs. For iphone, or daps, bass is tighter but overly driven)
I mean when can find all potential of a thing it can makes dream come true.
SP1000 eq does not work on bluetooth headphones.

*


----------



## FYLegend (May 11, 2020)

Canabuc said:


> Yes. Both on dynamic both using galaxy note 8 with Dolby atmos on in music setting with stock Samsung equalizer set flat.
> I set his earbuds up for him and had set it to dynamic. I'm not sure he even used them. I think he decided earbuds are not for him not specifically these,but any


Are they both on the newest firmware update? The bass seems deeper in the latest update, while highs are not as shrill, but for me the ambient mode has been ruined (they now cancel wind noise aggressively but other sounds cause the feed to pan left and right)

My biggest gripe with the Buds+ is that they sound poor with SBC codec, which I'm stuck with when using Windows 10. The problem isn't the codec itself but either a poor implementation or a low default bitrate. It would be nice if LineageOS or Linux users can confirm whether SBC XQ is able to improve the quality. They are still usable for general usage (such as videos or gaming, although connection can be spotty when under a heavy load), but it seems to me like Samsung can't be bothered to make it sound good outside of mobile devices with Scalable or AAC.


----------



## dogucanb

Hey guys,

Sorry if I missed but I went back for a while but couldn't find any information. What's our current value champ? I found the old champs qcy t1c or ssk but couldn't find a recent one. It would be great if you can recommene a couple under 50$. In the country I live in Amazon is super expensive so it would be great if it's from AliExpress or if they are widely available around the world like xiaomi, Anker etc.

Thanks in advance
You guys are the best


----------



## martiniCZ

dogucanb said:


> Sorry if I missed but I went back for a while but couldn't find any information. What's our current value champ? I found the old champs qcy t1c or ssk but couldn't find a recent one. It would be great if you can recommene a couple under 50$. In the country I live in Amazon is super expensive so it would be great if it's from AliExpress or if they are widely available around the world like xiaomi, Anker etc.


There is no champion, especially among the cheaper ones. It depends on what you listen to and what you expect from TWE, what the functions and endurance are supposed to have


----------



## Canabuc

FYLegend said:


> Are they both on the newest firmware update? The bass seems deeper in the latest update, while highs are not as shrill, but for me the ambient mode has been ruined (they now cancel wind noise aggressively but other sounds cause the feed to pan left and right)
> 
> My biggest gripe with the Buds+ is that they sound poor with SBC codec, which I'm stuck with when using Windows 10. The problem isn't the codec itself but either a poor implementation or a low default bitrate. It would be nice if LineageOS or Linux users can confirm whether SBC XQ is able to improve the quality. They are still usable for general usage (such as videos or gaming, although connection can be spotty when under a heavy load), but it seems to me like Samsung can't be bothered to make it sound good outside of mobile devices with Scalable or AAC.


I will check but I believe I am on the same firmware for both of them. also to reiterate I am using a Samsung phone so I am using their scalable codec. Maybe the people were complaining of it sounding tinny with poor base overly harsh treble are on SBC.


----------



## eiraku (May 11, 2020)

dogucanb said:


> Hey guys,
> 
> Sorry if I missed but I went back for a while but couldn't find any information. What's our current value champ? I found the old champs qcy t1c or ssk but couldn't find a recent one. It would be great if you can recommene a couple under 50$. In the country I live in Amazon is super expensive so it would be great if it's from AliExpress or if they are widely available around the world like xiaomi, Anker etc.
> 
> ...



You can check Scarbir for reviews (he does it by price bracket so that probably is even more relevant) but IMHO the "new" Soundpeats Truedots (the one with AptX) aren't too shabby for what they're going at.


----------



## chinmie

dogucanb said:


> Hey guys,
> 
> Sorry if I missed but I went back for a while but couldn't find any information. What's our current value champ? I found the old champs qcy t1c or ssk but couldn't find a recent one. It would be great if you can recommene a couple under 50$. In the country I live in Amazon is super expensive so it would be great if it's from AliExpress or if they are widely available around the world like xiaomi, Anker etc.
> 
> ...



Try the tronsmart spunky beat


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

I haven't updated my N6P battery life test yet, because I'm only up to about 26 hours on them. I can only use them at night after my wife has gone to bed, since they have no transparency mode and I need to be aware of what is going on around the house while she is awake. That is the time when I would usually listen to my custom IEM with my MacBook and a small amplifier.

My MTW are still more comfortable for wearing for more than an hour or two. So, I'm still itching to try the MTW2 with their more present treble and longer battery life, while offering transparency mode and ANC.


----------



## chazza7

Hi all!

Any eartip recommendations for the FIIL T1X? When mine arrived, my wife unpacked them and accidentally threw out the box without removing the extra eartips/earhooks. The default setup isn't particularly comfortable, and I've found that the usual tips I use on IEMs don't stay attached firmly because the T1X has a pronounced lip on the end, which the stock tips "lock" onto. Also, the case seems a bit shallow, so I don't think I can get away with anything much longer than the stock tips.

So far I've found the Misodiko TWS-Pro and the Spinfit CP360, and both look like they have graduations inside to "lock" onto the lip of the earbud. Has anyone tried these?

Thanks in advance!


----------



## Sam L (May 11, 2020)

chazza7 said:


> Hi all!
> 
> Any eartip recommendations for the FIIL T1X? When mine arrived, my wife unpacked them and accidentally threw out the box without removing the extra eartips/earhooks. The default setup isn't particularly comfortable, and I've found that the usual tips I use on IEMs don't stay attached firmly because the T1X has a pronounced lip on the end, which the stock tips "lock" onto. Also, the case seems a bit shallow, so I don't think I can get away with anything much longer than the stock tips.
> 
> ...


The Fiil case has some room for non-tws eartips, not much, but I found several generic silicone tips that worked. I normally use around a 13mm tip for my iems but with the t1x's I use a small tip (11mm) because of the driver flex.


----------



## Timastyle

Can someone help me that has/had the new ath-anc300tw earbuds?  How were they on phone calls?  Is the call quality good?

I ordered them direct from AT and after waiting over 2 weeks, they weren't shipped and order was finally cancelled.  Now I'm wondering if I should even bother with reordering them (this time through Amazon).


----------



## erockg (May 11, 2020)

Timastyle said:


> Can someone help me that has/had the new ath-anc300tw earbuds?  How were they on phone calls?  Is the call quality good?
> 
> I ordered them direct from AT and after waiting over 2 weeks, they weren't shipped and order was finally cancelled.  Now I'm wondering if I should even bother with reordering them (this time through Amazon).


Phone calls were okay while using here at home.  Didn't try them outside.  I did wind up sending mine back today.  The soundstage is better on my Sennheiser MTW2 and phone calls work great. There are also a few features on the MTW2 that I prefer.  They also pause when I take them out.  Love that feature.  The fit of the AT hurt at my ears at times.  Battery life is longer on the MTW2 as well.  For the money, I'd go with the MTW2 for $70 more.  They rock.


----------



## Timastyle

erockg said:


> Phone calls were okay while using here at home.  Didn't try them outside.  I did wind up sending mine back today.  The soundstage is better on my Sennheiser MTW2 and phone calls work great. There are also a few features on the MTW2 that I prefer.  They also pause when I take them out.  Love that feature.  The fit of the AT hurt at my ears at times.  Battery life is longer on the MTW2 as well.  For the money, I'd go with the MTW2 for $70 more.  They rock.



This is very helpful.  I currently have the SSK and while I love the sound quality, it's awful for calls.  Like the idea of ANC and transparency mode too for when I need it.  Battery life isn't much of a concern as I won't be wearing it for hours on end.


----------



## chazza7

Sam L said:


> The Fiil case has some room for non-tws eartips, not much, but I found several generic silicone tips that worked. I normally use around a 13mm tip for my iems but with the t1x's I use a small tip (11mm) because of the driver flex.



Thanks - I honestly hadn't tried to fit longer tips in the case since none of them would stay securely on the actual earbuds due to not having the "channel" inside the nozzle. Good to know that once I find tips that will stay put, I can go a little longer in depth.


----------



## Spidermanxd

how do i eq the soundcore 2 pro, to v shape sound


----------



## White Lotus

Took a few photos of the Sennheiser Momentum True Wireless 2:


----------



## assassin10000

Playing around with the Samsung Buds+. The ambient is 10x better than the XM3, although it does over emphasize some sounds, it is way more natural.

The new harman'ish tuning is a bit hot for me, but easy enough for me to EQ out (v4a). These are very good. I just wish they had the ANC that the XM3 does.


----------



## Ocelitgol

FYLegend said:


> Are they both on the newest firmware update? The bass seems deeper in the latest update, while highs are not as shrill, but for me the ambient mode has been ruined (they now cancel wind noise aggressively but other sounds cause the feed to pan left and right)
> 
> My biggest gripe with the Buds+ is that they sound poor with SBC codec, which I'm stuck with when using Windows 10. The problem isn't the codec itself but either a poor implementation or a low default bitrate. It would be nice if LineageOS or Linux users can confirm whether SBC XQ is able to improve the quality. They are still usable for general usage (such as videos or gaming, although connection can be spotty when under a heavy load), but it seems to me like Samsung can't be bothered to make it sound good outside of mobile devices with Scalable or AAC.


Which EQ are you using?



assassin10000 said:


> Playing around with the Samsung Buds+. The ambient is 10x better than the XM3, although it does over emphasize some sounds, it is way more natural.
> 
> The new harman'ish tuning is a bit hot for me, but easy enough for me to EQ out (v4a). These are very good. I just wish they had the ANC that the XM3 does.


Can you share your EQ?

Also, I'm still waiting for this pandemic to be over so I can test Buds+ passive vs Sony NC on NY Subway. Granted I don't expect Samsung to win but if Sony ANC isn't a drastic difference, I might just sell Sony. I prefer Sony sound but Samsung fit and size is just too good.


----------



## Sam L

assassin10000 said:


> Playing around with the Samsung Buds+. The ambient is 10x better than the XM3, although it does over emphasize some sounds, it is way more natural.
> 
> The new harman'ish tuning is a bit hot for me, but easy enough for me to EQ out (v4a). These are very good. I just wish they had the ANC that the XM3 does.


I love Viper4android! Aside from the eq, I often rely on spectrum extension, Viper bass and Viper clarity to tweak my tws' and iem's.


----------



## Darkestred

White Lotus said:


> Took a few photos of the Sennheiser Momentum True Wireless 2:




I couldn't help myself and apologies for off-topic. I know you didn't craft it but that is a beautiful picture of your tube amp.


----------



## assassin10000

Ocelitgol said:


> Can you share your EQ?
> 
> Also, I'm still waiting for this pandemic to be over so I can test Buds+ passive vs Sony NC on NY Subway. Granted I don't expect Samsung to win but if Sony ANC isn't a drastic difference, I might just sell Sony. I prefer Sony sound but Samsung fit and size is just too good.



Sure. 




Yeah, I expect the ANC will probably beat the passive isolation by a fair margin. I agree, the fit on the Buds+ is way better than the XM3.


----------



## Ocelitgol

assassin10000 said:


> Sure.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


oh woa....yours is almost the same as mine. I raised 8k to 5db though. However, nowadays, I just stick to Soft EQ as it sounds least offensive to me with the same nice bass and a touch of boosted midbass. 

Also, what tips are you using with your Buds+? I tiprolled for a few weeks and now using with Spinfit cp360. 
Which one getting most of your time, Sony or Samsung?


----------



## assassin10000

Ocelitgol said:


> oh woa....yours is almost the same as mine. I raised 8k to 5db though. However, nowadays, I just stick to Soft EQ as it sounds least offensive to me with the same nice bass and a touch of boosted midbass.
> 
> Also, what tips are you using with your Buds+? I tiprolled for a few weeks and now using with Spinfit cp360.
> Which one getting most of your time, Sony or Samsung?



I'm using some modded AliExpress foams, just normal T400 tips cut in half to about 5mm height. This is both to fit the charging case and that I have shallow ear canals, so it gives me the more comfort and a better fit. I seem to gravitate towards foam tips in general though. Ymmv.

The Buds+. Granted I just got them, so new toy syndrome does apply.


----------



## d3myz

I've spent a little over 2 weeks with the Jabra Elite 75t's and i've got to say overall i'm really, really happy with them. The bass is ridiculous, like stupid and they def. need to be Eq'd. I made a bunch of custom presets in the app and now that I have, These things really really perform. Mids are great and the highs are beautiful. I'm using some wide bore medium tips I found somewhere, they are akin to the RadioShack tips but they are shorter. I've been using them for phone calls and Zoom daily and also Go To Meeting. They are hands down the best TWS i've used for calls. I get a lot of comments about how good my voice sound with them. They do have their hiccups when switching from my PC to my phone. I just make sure to disconnect them from my PC when I leave my office, but I can easily answer calls while gaming on my PC with them. They are an all around performer The transparency mode is also excellent and depending on the tips you use, i'd say it rivals the APPs, especially now that APPLE destroyed the APPs with their latest firmware update. (My 3rd replacement pair will be here today ) Anyway, The app is also fantastic, It has the EQ, Call settings and some other options. You can't program the buttons, but it hasn't bothered me at all. The have mute/ambient on the left and volume down. on the right is play/pause, Siri, answer call and Volume Up refubs are $100 https://www.newegg.com/jabra-elite-75t-in-ear-black/p/0TH-04CN-000K7


----------



## Canabuc

assassin10000 said:


> Sure.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


What is fire equalizer?


----------



## assassin10000 (May 12, 2020)

Canabuc said:


> What is fire equalizer?



It's the equalizer in the Viper4android software (requires android device and root).


----------



## Canabuc

assassin10000 said:


> It's the equalizer in the Viper4android software (requires android decice and root).


Ok don't have root... Damn


----------



## Dobrescu George

If anyone was looking for a neutral-sounding TWS IEM, the HIFIMAN TWS600 is an interesting choice, priced at just 80 USD  

https://www.audiophile-heaven.com/2020/05/light-spring-audio-hifiman-tws-600.html


----------



## karloil

Dobrescu George said:


> If anyone was looking for a neutral-sounding TWS IEM, the HIFIMAN TWS600 is an interesting choice, priced at just 80 USD
> 
> https://www.audiophile-heaven.com/2020/05/light-spring-audio-hifiman-tws-600.html



George, you must have gotten a good set of TWS600s as all of the TWS600s that I've listened to are not really neutral sounding.


----------



## Dobrescu George

karloil said:


> George, you must have gotten a good set of TWS600s as all of the TWS600s that I've listened to are not really neutral sounding.



Neutral / Mid FWD / Bright is what I would go for (?)

Since I spent more time than I want to tell with them, to get an EQ curve that doesn't cross the headroom of the driver, I wanted to point that it may be possible that some people didn't get a proper fit with them, I really tip rolled hard to get a sound I liked, and it was mostly with foams and spnfit that I got it, so not with hte tips in the pakcage (?)


----------



## chinmie

Dobrescu George said:


> If anyone was looking for a neutral-sounding TWS IEM, the HIFIMAN TWS600 is an interesting choice, priced at just 80 USD
> 
> https://www.audiophile-heaven.com/2020/05/light-spring-audio-hifiman-tws-600.html





karloil said:


> George, you must have gotten a good set of TWS600s as all of the TWS600s that I've listened to are not really neutral sounding.



if you want neutral, try the Nillkin Go. you may or may not like the sound, but it's as close to "unseasoned" neutral in a TWS that i have. it's close to ER4XR in tuning without the mid hig freq bump, so it sounds smoother than the ER4XR. 

still to this day one of my favorite TWS


----------



## FYLegend

Ocelitgol said:


> Which EQ are you using?


I use Dynamic. I find that all EQ settings have been tweaked in the latest update but don't have any measurements. The new tuning works a bit better with SBC because the highs aren't as brash, but the rattling distortion is still noticeable with certain sounds (hi-hats and orchestral strings). It's a shame because I've been hoping to find a TWS with USB-C, ambient sound and independent bud usage that works well on both PC and mobile.



d3myz said:


> I've spent a little over 2 weeks with the Jabra Elite 75t's and i've got to say overall i'm really, really happy with them. The bass is ridiculous, like stupid and they def. need to be Eq'd. I made a bunch of custom presets in the app and now that I have, These things really really perform. Mids are great and the highs are beautiful. I'm using some wide bore medium tips I found somewhere, they are akin to the RadioShack tips but they are shorter. I've been using them for phone calls and Zoom daily and also Go To Meeting. They are hands down the best TWS i've used for calls. I get a lot of comments about how good my voice sound with them. They do have their hiccups when switching from my PC to my phone. I just make sure to disconnect them from my PC when I leave my office, but I can easily answer calls while gaming on my PC with them. They are an all around performer The transparency mode is also excellent and depending on the tips you use, i'd say it rivals the APPs, especially now that APPLE destroyed the APPs with their latest firmware update. (My 3rd replacement pair will be here today ) Anyway, The app is also fantastic, It has the EQ, Call settings and some other options. You can't program the buttons, but it hasn't bothered me at all. The have mute/ambient on the left and volume down. on the right is play/pause, Siri, answer call and Volume Up refubs are $100 https://www.newegg.com/jabra-elite-75t-in-ear-black/p/0TH-04CN-000K7


Any issue with hiss imbalance? I had this issue on the 65t and people still reported it on the 75t, not sure if it was a matter of defective units or people not noticing the issue. The only thing that kept me from these was no Qi charging and no independent bud use. Jabra promised these in future releases but have since confirmed the single bud use firmware update has been cancelled - no news about the Qi charging case either. It's also perplexing they use a Qualcomm SoC but don't implement AptX. Curious how they sound with SBC on Windows 10. I recall the 65t were very good with SBC and nearly the same quality as AAC on my phone.


----------



## karloil

Dobrescu George said:


> Neutral / Mid FWD / Bright is what I would go for (?)
> 
> Since I spent more time than I want to tell with them, to get an EQ curve that doesn't cross the headroom of the driver, I wanted to point that it may be possible that some people didn't get a proper fit with them, I really tip rolled hard to get a sound I liked, and it was mostly with foams and spnfit that I got it, so not with hte tips in the pakcage (?)



I also did tip rolling (including Spinfits and foam) with them, tried in 3 different audio shops thinking that maybe the issue is with the demo units, still not to my liking. The shrill in the highs were too much fatiguing for me. I don't do EQ as it will affect my other TWS once I switch over. In my area they are still priced at around $110 - My pocket and ears still prefer the Tevis. To my ears, the N6 Pro is more Neutral sounding than the TWS600. You should try giving them a go.


----------



## DigDub

Tried the hifiman in shops as well. Way too bright for my taste even though I don't mind neutral sound. 

On another note, fitted some spinfit 360 tips on the original galaxy buds and with the latest firmware, have propelled them to one of favorite tws. Great natural highs and mids, bass is a tad undefined. Good battery life and compact case.


----------



## jsmiller58

Really enjoying my Helm TWS 5.0 with Sedna tips.  Fantastic wireless range, great passive noise isolation, and sweat resistant.  Yes they are over the top bassy, but for working out and doing outdoor chores they are great - and in really loud situations the extra bass helps.  I have had wireless earbuds before, but these are the only ones that keep me listening to them even after I am done and could reasonably put in much higher end IEMs.


----------



## Ynot1

Just curious. Are there any TWS that allow for two connections and has a gyro to keep track of the head orientation? This way you can virtually maintain physical direction of sound propagation that is corresponding to the sources. Am I asking this right?


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

d3myz said:


> I've spent a little over 2 weeks with the Jabra Elite 75t's and i've got to say overall i'm really, really happy with them. The bass is ridiculous, like stupid and they def. need to be Eq'd. I made a bunch of custom presets in the app and now that I have, These things really really perform. Mids are great and the highs are beautiful. I'm using some wide bore medium tips I found somewhere, they are akin to the RadioShack tips but they are shorter. I've been using them for phone calls and Zoom daily and also Go To Meeting. They are hands down the best TWS i've used for calls. I get a lot of comments about how good my voice sound with them. They do have their hiccups when switching from my PC to my phone. I just make sure to disconnect them from my PC when I leave my office, but I can easily answer calls while gaming on my PC with them. They are an all around performer The transparency mode is also excellent and depending on the tips you use, i'd say it rivals the APPs, especially now that APPLE destroyed the APPs with their latest firmware update. (My 3rd replacement pair will be here today ) Anyway, The app is also fantastic, It has the EQ, Call settings and some other options. You can't program the buttons, but it hasn't bothered me at all. The have mute/ambient on the left and volume down. on the right is play/pause, Siri, answer call and Volume Up refubs are $100 https://www.newegg.com/jabra-elite-75t-in-ear-black/p/0TH-04CN-000K7


Seems like a nice earbud, but based on Amazon reviews I had decided to pass due to reliability issues. Not sure $100 for a refurb with 180 day warranty is worth it.


----------



## voicemaster (May 13, 2020)

Just listening with T1X again and I just reminded why I love this TWS. Even after trying many different TWS, T1X will always have a special place in my collection. It may not sound as refined as Nuarl N6 pro, but it is more fun sounding and when I just want that bass slam, T1X always deliver at least for me.
The intro of this song, the kick drum sounds really good with T1X.


Oh and what unique about T1X is the app. Let say your T1X is connected to your PC, but the app is only available on android/iOS. You don't have to disconnect the T1X from your PC and the app will connect to it from your phone (just make sure "location" is turned on). Small thing but it is very nice.


----------



## RobinFood

Ynot1 said:


> Just curious. Are there any TWS that allow for two connections and has a gyro to keep track of the head orientation? This way you can virtually maintain physical direction of sound propagation that is corresponding to the sources. Am I asking this right?



If I understand right, than the only thing I know of that does this is the audeze Mobius, but it is not a true wireless earphone, it's a headphone. I haven't heard of anything like that other than the Mobius, and even that is pretty recent.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

HeadphoneAddict said:


> Seems like a nice earbud, but based on Amazon reviews I had decided to pass due to reliability issues. Not sure $100 for a refurb with 180 day warranty is worth it.



So, I checked and newegg offers a 1 yr square trade warranty for $8.99 so maybe worth it for Jabra?


----------



## HeadphoneAddict (May 13, 2020)

I'm at about 31 hours of use without plugging my Nuarl N6 Pro into power so far. I can't believe I might have 24 more hours remaining in the buds and case.

What I don't understand is how I used them for at least 2+ hours tonight on my MacBook Pro, and when I disconnected from my MacBook Pro and connected them to my iPhone to check the battery levels, it said my left one was at 90% and the right was at 100%. I then played one song on the iPhone with the right as master (left as slave) and it showed 85% battery for the left, and 90% for the right.

So, either they drain faster on the iPhone than MacBook Pro, or it takes the iPhone about 5 minutes to properly guess the correct amount of charge remaining. I wish there was a way to check battery remaining while connected to the MacBook, instead of having to disconnect from that and connect to a phone.

As for sound quality - I'm still very impressed with their transparency and ambience and space, with good frequency balance and extension. Isolation is more than my MTW or APP, and therein is the rub - I still can't use them during the day when my wife is home working and is trying to call out my name, nor make phone calls because my voice is amplified inside my head through bone conduction since the passive isolation is so great.

So, I decided to order the refurbished Jabra Elite 75t at newegg, with the squaretrade warranty in case I keep them past the 30 day return period. If they don't offer me anything better than my MTW then the Jabra will go back or go to one of my kids, and I'll plan to get the MTW2 at some point.


----------



## Dobrescu George

chinmie said:


> if you want neutral, try the Nillkin Go. you may or may not like the sound, but it's as close to "unseasoned" neutral in a TWS that i have. it's close to ER4XR in tuning without the mid hig freq bump, so it sounds smoother than the ER4XR.
> 
> still to this day one of my favorite TWS



Woah, I liked the ER4XR, and always wanted to hear what a smoother ER4XR would sound like, I will try to give those a listen, and I would be looking really forward to it!  



karloil said:


> I also did tip rolling (including Spinfits and foam) with them, tried in 3 different audio shops thinking that maybe the issue is with the demo units, still not to my liking. The shrill in the highs were too much fatiguing for me. I don't do EQ as it will affect my other TWS once I switch over. In my area they are still priced at around $110 - My pocket and ears still prefer the Tevis. To my ears, the N6 Pro is more Neutral sounding than the TWS600. You should try giving them a go.



For 110 USD, you could probably find something like the Tevi which should be better. 

Without EQ, they are indeed a bit unbalanced tonally.


----------



## karloil

Dobrescu George said:


> For 110 USD, you could probably find something like the Tevi which should be better.
> 
> Without EQ, they are indeed a bit unbalanced tonally.



Yep, I already own the Tevis!


----------



## RemoGaggi

Out of curiosity, how many different pairs of TWS do each of you own?  And if the number is high, how do you explain that to your wife?


----------



## Leeco

RemoGaggi said:


> Out of curiosity, how many different pairs of TWS do each of you own?  And if the number is high, how do you explain that to your wife?


She does not know! 
My wife has no idea if I am wearing a $30 pair of TWS or a $130 one. I think women just go by color. If you keep it black/white they probably think it's just 2 ...


----------



## karloil

RemoGaggi said:


> Out of curiosity, how many different pairs of TWS do each of you own?  And if the number is high, how do you explain that to your wife?



Easy! Been using these lines since I started my portable audio journey. Feel free to use/modify for your own use: 

- "It's not new, its always been with me (always been here in my box)"
- "Sold some old ones at a good price to get this/these"
- "It was on sale! XX% (bloated number) off!"
- "Got them from a trade!" - which never happened!


----------



## voicemaster

RemoGaggi said:


> Out of curiosity, how many different pairs of TWS do each of you own?  And if the number is high, how do you explain that to your wife?


You just don't say...


----------



## chinmie

Dobrescu George said:


> Woah, I liked the ER4XR, and always wanted to hear what a smoother ER4XR would sound like, I will try to give those a listen, and I would be looking really forward to it!



https://nillkin.org/accessories/headphones/nillkin-go-tws

This one is what I'm referring to, as the newer tube shaped case also called Nillkin Go, but i haven't heard that one personally, and based on user reviews that one seems to be bass heavy.

One thing to mention about the Go is that the case is shallow, so only limited tips with short stems can fit inside, so a bit limited on tip rolling


----------



## RemoGaggi

karloil said:


> Easy! Been using these lines since I started my portable audio journey. Feel free to use/modify for your own use:
> 
> - "It's not new, its always been with me (always been here in my box)"
> - "Sold some old ones at a good price to get this/these"
> ...


LOL. I had 2 pairs of TWS, but gave one to my daughter, so when the FIIL T1x was back in stock on Amazon I ordered it.  A couple nights ago, my saw the order on our account and asked why I needed another pair.  I went with a variation of:

- "Sold some old ones at a good price to get this/these"
- "It was on sale! XX% (bloated number) off!"

She looked at me like I was speaking a different language.  She didn't say anything else, but she doesn't know about the 2 other pairs coming from China that I ordered on Ebay.  LOL.


----------



## karloil

RemoGaggi said:


> *saw the order on our account*



Rookie move my man! Create another account for 'your needs' 

And when the packages from Ebay comes and your wife sees them at the porch/doorstep - "Oh I ordered them _months _ago and they just came" OR "I had an issue with one of the items I purchased, so the seller sent me these as compensation."


----------



## Luke Skywalker (May 13, 2020)

RemoGaggi said:


> Out of curiosity, how many different pairs of TWS do each of you own?  And if the number is high, how do you explain that to your wife?


You can tell her that she has 100+ pair of shoes and only 2 feet.  That's what I do 

Or dozens of bags that cost hundreds of dollars that... Hold stuff.  Same as any other bag  

I have another strange collection - high powered flashlights.  She can't understand it but I'm fascinated with how much light these buggers can put out


----------



## RemoGaggi

karloil said:


> Rookie move my man! Create another account for 'your needs'
> 
> And when the packages from Ebay comes and your wife sees them at the porch/doorstep - "Oh I ordered them _months _ago and they just came" OR "I had an issue with one of the items I purchased, so the seller sent me these as compensation."


Yes, I have so much to learn!  LOL


----------



## voicemaster

Luke Skywalker said:


> You can tell her that she has 100+ pair of shoes and only 2 feet.  That's what I do
> 
> Or dozens of bags that cost hundreds of dollars that... Hold stuff.  Same as any other bag
> 
> I have another strange collection - high powered flashlights.  She can't understand it but I'm fascinated with how much light these buggers can put out



Hahaha I used to collect flashlight too. Nitecore, Fenix, Eagtac, etc. Luckily my wife never complain about my hobby ;p.


----------



## voicemaster

RemoGaggi said:


> Yes, I have so much to learn!  LOL


You can also use Amazon Locker for shipping.


----------



## Dolores Dolomites

Ayeee!  Nuraloop incoming!  "1-7 business days", they says.
Now, one or seven wouldn't change much, approaching the anniversary of the pre-order I placed on 20th May 2019.
Wait... Now that I know it's on its way, it does!  Can't wait!


----------



## Francesco Montanari

karloil said:


> Yep, I already own the Tevis!


LOL, i own almost 20 pair of tws... for my wife they are free samples for review but at least 80% are paid with my money


----------



## Caipirina

chinmie said:


> if you want neutral, try the Nillkin Go. you may or may not like the sound, but it's as close to "unseasoned" neutral in a TWS that i have. it's close to ER4XR in tuning without the mid hig freq bump, so it sounds smoother than the ER4XR.
> 
> still to this day one of my favorite TWS


I finally gave my Nillkin Go their fair shake on 2 runs and I am impressed! Not only by the sound, but how the heck do they NOT have the dreaded runners’ thud? The seem to seal well. 
If only I had not selected this weird shade of red that goes with nothing  I’d be using them more often ...

Gosh. I have terrible ‘new toy’ withdrawal!!!


----------



## Caipirina

RemoGaggi said:


> Out of curiosity, how many different pairs of TWS do each of you own?  And if the number is high, how do you explain that to your wife?


A) too ashamed to disclose. But as long as Bartig has a few more, I feel I am ok 
B) I don’t  to her they all look the same
But in earlier audio gear discussions I also used the shoes / handbags comparison. Or how her hair costs over 100$ each time she goes and I shave my scalp at DIY cost


----------



## karloil

RemoGaggi said:


> Yes, I have so much to learn!  LOL



You'll get there eventually  Come to think of it, TWS are cheaper as compared to IEMs/cans. (Specially the China TWS) I wish TWS came into the picture earlier as I could get a number of TWS for 1 IEM! Now talk about getting your bang for the buck! 



Francesco Montanari said:


> LOL, i own almost 20 pair of tws... for my wife they are free samples for review but at least 80% are paid with my money



That's a lot! Well, you still got 4 pairs free - better than the most of us here


----------



## chinmie

Caipirina said:


> I finally gave my Nillkin Go their fair shake on 2 runs and I am impressed! Not only by the sound, but how the heck do they NOT have the dreaded runners’ thud? The seem to seal well.
> If only I had not selected this weird shade of red that goes with nothing  I’d be using them more often ...
> 
> Gosh. I have terrible ‘new toy’ withdrawal!!!



Yup! And the way it sits in the ears, i often wears it all day on standby and forgot that I'm still wearing it. If they make an update to this with the same form factor but adding ANC, i would buy one without hesitation. The sound staging is almost like an earbud or Koss KSCs, but with IEM fitting. I reach for the Go more often than the X12 for more ambient TWS


----------



## jwong

Looks like the Tranya B530 is back down to $19.99 on Amazon with the coupon code ZM9WXRDV. After grabbing it the last time, I think that's the best deal there is for a cheap TWS!


----------



## Luke Skywalker

Francesco Montanari said:


> LOL, i own almost 20 pair of tws... for my wife they are free samples for review but at least 80% are paid with my money


Heehee that's funny.  

My first big audio purchase was the Audeze LCD-2's.  I just happened to drive past an audio store and walked in and fell in love with them immediately.  So I came home that evening with the huge Pelican case and told her they were "a few hundred $".  I don't think she believed me but we never really talked about it.  

I purposely buy stuff at that place so she doesn't know what I'm spending on this stuff...  Nice to buy local too - the pegs came loose and they took care of sending them back to get fixed and gave me a loaner pair of LCD-4's while i waited.


----------



## clerkpalmer

Dolores Dolomites said:


> Ayeee!  Nuraloop incoming!  "1-7 business days", they says.
> Now, one or seven wouldn't change much, approaching the anniversary of the pre-order I placed on 20th May 2019.
> Wait... Now that I know it's on its way, it does!  Can't wait!


I was looking at these just now. Seems like a nice product even though it has a wire. Anyone else gonna give them a run?


----------



## martiniCZ

The sad truth about the Bluedio Faith Fi, or how I lost faith after purchase Faith Fi by Bluedio. I pay extra for the verified stable connection with a QCC3020 chip, but Bluedio can show me how it can go wrong. Unfortunately, the sound is also a complete disaster, it looks ugly on the FR graph and it sounds even worse in the ears!  Sadly, even if they weren't so unbalanced, it wouldn't help them much. In short, Bluedio ruined everything that was possible!
*OH MIO DIO, SALVA BLUEDIO!*


----------



## assassin10000 (May 13, 2020)

Everything I've read about bluedio bt stuff is crap.


----------



## Mouseman

assassin10000 said:


> Everything I've read about bluedio bt stuff is crap.


I can unfortunately confirm that. Other than one set of neckband wireless, that is actually good (version 2), everything else I've wasted money on is the worst junk I've ever bought. Nice looking, but total crap in every other way.


----------



## hifi80sman (May 13, 2020)

martiniCZ said:


> The sad truth about the Bluedio Faith Fi, or how I lost faith after purchase Faith Fi by Bluedio. I pay extra for the verified stable connection with a QCC3020 chip, but Bluedio can show me how it can go wrong. Unfortunately, the sound is also a complete disaster, it looks ugly on the FR graph and it sounds even worse in the ears!  Sadly, even if they weren't so unbalanced, it wouldn't help them much. In short, Bluedio ruined everything that was possible!
> *OH MIO DIO, SALVA BLUEDIO!*


Bluedio is dead.  They suck.  Early on in the wireless headphone game, they had some interesting models, such as the Victory, UFO, Vinyl (70mm drivers) and the like.  Despite all the rave reviews of those models, they were all strictly consumer grade with mostly a bass heavy signature, average clarity, and somewhat disjointed audio presentation due to multiple drivers (Victory & UFO).  The Vinyl was impressive in _*concept *_(70mm effin' drivers!), but in *reality *it was only a decent performer.  Clarity wasn't the best, bass was bloated, but it was decent for the average consumer that just wanted some bass forward headphones.  All that being said, their stuff was interesting and generally built with better material than you'd typically see from the major brands and that price.  The mics on the headphones were REALLY BAD, however.

Bluedio is now a shell of what they were due, in my opinion, to hubris resulting in marginal products the past few years.  A headphone with no controls and only a voice assistant to make things happen?  Always on mic with Bluedio App to spy on me?  I will never buy Bluedio.  I'm sure the Chinese government has sent the CEO to "re-education camp" due to lost revenues.


----------



## Caipirina

d3myz said:


> I think I need to go too! I have 14 pair now  Glad my wife doesn't know how many I have.


FOURTEEN?  that's so cute


----------



## Caipirina

chinmie said:


> Yup! And the way it sits in the ears, i often wears it all day on standby and forgot that I'm still wearing it. If they make an update to this with the same form factor but adding ANC, i would buy one without hesitation. The sound staging is almost like an earbud or Koss KSCs, but with IEM fitting. I reach for the Go more often than the X12 for more ambient TWS


If I ever get access to AliExpress again ... I might actually get a backup pair in black ... really impressed these last few days and wondering what took me so long.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict (May 14, 2020)

Hmmm, how many TWS do I have? I think it's 15 so far. It's out of control.

AirPods 2
AirPods Pro
Powerbeats Pro blue
Powerbeats Pro black
PaMu Scroll
Pamu Scroll (sealed box)
PaMu Slide x1 (sealed box)
Crazy Baby Air (somewhere around the house)
Sennheiser Momentum TW
Sennheiser Momentum TW second set
Nuarl N6Pro
FIIL T1X en route with UPS
Jabra Elite 75t en route with UPS
Nuprime Audio prototype
NxEars Basso with TRN MMCX BT20S true wireless adapters (just arrived BT still in sealed box)

This is not counting my wireless-wired Westone BT V1 cable x3 and BT V2 x2 for my W40, W50, W60, W80, and ES60. And not counting my Audeze iSine10 with BT cable, nor my JH Audio 13 Pro with JHA BT cable and Roxanne with BT cable. I still count them as wireless, so I think I should be all set.

On top of that I have the CEntrance BlueDAC BT DAC/amp, HiFiMan R2R2000 with BT, and Fiio BTR5 DAC/amp for using wired headphone via BT wireless.


----------



## hifi80sman

HeadphoneAddict said:


> Hmmm, how many TWS do I have? I think it's 15 so far. It's out of control.
> 
> AirPods 2
> AirPods Pro
> ...


I'd be interested to hear differing opinions on the psychology behind this.  I too live in excess within this audio world we love, but there's something seemingly deeper here than with other hobbies.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

hifi80sman said:


> I'd be interested to hear differing opinions on the psychology behind this.  I too live in excess within this audio world we love, but there's something seemingly deeper here than with other hobbies.



Yeah, it's called FOMO.

Now you know why they call me the Headphone Addict.


----------



## Caipirina

HeadphoneAddict said:


> Yeah, it's called FOMO.
> 
> Now you know why they call me the Headphone Addict.


 looking at your number of posts (17K!) you really deserve that name


----------



## clerkpalmer

What is the nuprime  audio prototype?


----------



## RemoGaggi

RemoGaggi said:


> Out of curiosity, how many different pairs of TWS do each of you own?  And if the number is high, how do you explain that to your wife?


To answer my own question, I am now on my 3rd pair.  I just received my Fiil T1x yesterday.  I also have the Tranya B530 and Dudios Shuttle (gave to my daughter).  I'm using the T1x with my PC through an Audioquest Dragonfly Red with Audioquest Wolf Wire connected to a Bluetooth 5.0 transmitter.  My initial impression is that the T1x is awesome. They sound great, so musical, and are very non-fatiguing.  I like my Tranya B530 also, but to me, I'm liking the T1x a lot better at the moment.  I've got the  KZ Z1 (and it's 2.5hr battery life) on the way (just shipped out today) and Haylou GT1 Plus (Impulse Buy after seeing a review) arriving someday from China (I'm in California).  
I think I've got the beginnings of FOMO?


----------



## Sam L

RemoGaggi said:


> To answer my own question, I am now on my 3rd pair.  I just received my Fiil T1x yesterday.  I also have the Tranya B530 and Dudios Shuttle (gave to my daughter).  I'm using the T1x with my PC through an Audioquest Dragonfly Red with Audioquest Wolf Wire connected to a Bluetooth 5.0 transmitter.  My initial impression is that the T1x is awesome. They sound great, so musical, and are very non-fatiguing.  I like my Tranya B530 also, but to me, I'm liking the T1x a lot better at the moment.  I've got the  KZ Z1 (and it's 2.5hr battery life) on the way (just shipped out today) and Haylou GT1 Plus (Impulse Buy after seeing a review) arriving someday from China (I'm in California).
> I think I've got the beginnings of FOMO?


yeah... you're in trouble.    welcome to the group!

The t1x definitely sound better along the way -- some of the treble harshness goes away.


----------



## FadeOne

Not there yet


----------



## AudioNoob

Sam L said:


> yeah... you're in trouble.    welcome to the group!
> 
> The t1x definitely sound better along the way -- some of the treble harshness goes away.





RemoGaggi said:


> To answer my own question, I am now on my 3rd pair.  I just received my Fiil T1x yesterday.  I also have the Tranya B530 and Dudios Shuttle (gave to my daughter).  I'm using the T1x with my PC through an Audioquest Dragonfly Red with Audioquest Wolf Wire connected to a Bluetooth 5.0 transmitter.  My initial impression is that the T1x is awesome. They sound great, so musical, and are very non-fatiguing.  I like my Tranya B530 also, but to me, I'm liking the T1x a lot better at the moment.  I've got the  KZ Z1 (and it's 2.5hr battery life) on the way (just shipped out today) and Haylou GT1 Plus (Impulse Buy after seeing a review) arriving someday from China (I'm in California).
> I think I've got the beginnings of FOMO?


Does your PC not have BT? To go from a digital source > DAC + Amplification > ADC > Re-encode for Bluetooth > TWS seems like a worse way to go than Digital Source > Re-encode for Bluetooth > TWS. You might be better off with a bluetooth dongle for your pc


----------



## RemoGaggi

AudioNoob said:


> Does your PC not have BT? To go from a digital source > DAC + Amplification > ADC > Re-encode for Bluetooth > TWS seems like a worse way to go than Digital Source > Re-encode for Bluetooth > TWS. You might be better off with a bluetooth dongle for your pc


My PC doesn't have built in BT, but I did order a 5.0 BT Dongle, so I'll give that a try when it gets here.  It's been an interesting and fun journey discovering earbuds.  I never had a need to get earbuds until this whole Covid thing happened and my wife started working from home.  It started with just getting some earbuds to try to get some isolation and quiet, and then I started hanging out on this forum and then watching reviews on youtube and now I'm waiting for 2 more pairs to be delivered.  It's fun though!


----------



## Luke Skywalker

HeadphoneAddict said:


> Hmmm, how many TWS do I have? I think it's 15 so far. It's out of control.
> 
> AirPods 2
> AirPods Pro
> ...


Wow, what a collection!  I bought the JH bluetooth cable for my Lola's and didn't like it.  Too much bass and no way to adjust it.  I'm using an ES100 sometimes w/ the JH 2.5 balanced cable and also an iFi xDSD

The only TWS buds I've found that I like are the N6 Pro's - absolutely love the sound, but wish they had ANC.  I bought the Sony's and hate the sound, although the noise canceling is great. 

I need to find something that has great ANC and sound that I like, but I'm at a loss on what to buy...  I need AAC for iPhone listening and Aptx (obviously LDAC would be great!)

Any suggestions?  Cost isn't an issue


----------



## PixelSquish

I only have 'two' pairs of true wireless buds, but they are good ones I think!


----------



## FadeOne

Nice


----------



## voicemaster

3x Fill T1X
Nuarl N6 pro
1more ANC
Mpow M5
Tranya B530
Ofusho F16
Samsung Galaxy Buds
Samsung Galaxy Buds plus
Tronsmart Spunky Beats
Cleer Ally
Mifo07
2x QCY T1C
Sabbat E12 ultra
Tronsmart Onyx Ace (still on the way)
Yeah I am beyond help. I also have 3x bt20s, 1x bt20, 2x bt3s and  Kz AptX HD bluetooth cable. Not to forget that I have more than 30 wired IEMs too.


----------



## RemoGaggi

voicemaster said:


> 3x Fill T1X
> Nuarl N6 pro
> 1more ANC
> Mpow M5
> ...



You are my hero!


----------



## hmscott (May 14, 2020)

Did anyone that contributed to the KZ S2 Indiegogo campaign receive their production units yet?  If so, how do you like them?  How do they compare to KZ IEM's and other TWS's you've tried?

I've backed them for 2 units (one black and one white) for $60 + foam eartips + DHL shipping, but I haven't seen a notice that's it's shipped yet.  Their blog says they are waiting for their fulfillment to get the tracking numbers to them to distribute.  Here's the schedule for shipping, I don't even know which Batch I'm in 


Spoiler: Batches and shipping dates











They've extended the campaign for another 30 days...as of 4 days ago.
https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/kz-s2-next-generation-hybrid-tws-in-ear-monitors/x/23504862#/

The KZ S2 is AAC only - no ANC, no Apt-x - I think I'll give these to relatives that have iPhones and iPads to enjoy.

Besides these incoming, I've recently gotten my first TWS's - Sennheiser Momentum 2 TWS's and Samsung Buds+, just getting into it - thanks for the heads up on the potential addictive powers of TWS's


----------



## FadeOne

Interesting


----------



## tgx78 (May 14, 2020)

RemoGaggi said:


> To answer my own question, I am now on my 3rd pair.  I just received my Fiil T1x yesterday.  I also have the Tranya B530 and Dudios Shuttle (gave to my daughter).  I'm using the T1x with my PC through an Audioquest Dragonfly Red with Audioquest Wolf Wire connected to a Bluetooth 5.0 transmitter.  My initial impression is that the T1x is awesome. They sound great, so musical, and are very non-fatiguing.  I like my Tranya B530 also, but to me, I'm liking the T1x a lot better at the moment.  I've got the  KZ Z1 (and it's 2.5hr battery life) on the way (just shipped out today) and Haylou GT1 Plus (Impulse Buy after seeing a review) arriving someday from China (I'm in California).
> I think I've got the beginnings of FOMO?



I like Fiil T1x but Haylou GT1 Plus is even better I feel. 
GT1 Plus has more organic natural sound and slightly less peaky highs = I can listen to it continuously for like 6-8 hours straight.

Just checked my AliExpress page and saw that I paid CDN$31 for GT1 Plus and $400ish for the moondrop blessing 2 and guess what I prefer the GT1 plus


----------



## Luke Skywalker

Plz let me know if anyone sees a deal on the Sennheiser Momentum TWS 2 

thanks guys


----------



## IamJon (May 14, 2020)

Luke Skywalker said:


> I need to find something that has great ANC and sound that I like, but I'm at a loss on what to buy...  I need AAC for iPhone listening and Aptx (obviously LDAC would be great!)
> 
> Any suggestions?  Cost isn't an issue



Not true wireless but the 1more anc pro is looking interesting. Dual drivers, anc and even supports ldac. https://www.digitaltrends.com/headphone-reviews/1more-dual-driver-anc-review/

£109 on aliexpress now, really tempting me but trying to wait for reviews.


----------



## DynamicEars

RemoGaggi said:


> To answer my own question, I am now on my 3rd pair.  I just received my Fiil T1x yesterday.  I also have the Tranya B530 and Dudios Shuttle (gave to my daughter).  I'm using the T1x with my PC through an Audioquest Dragonfly Red with Audioquest Wolf Wire connected to a Bluetooth 5.0 transmitter.  My initial impression is that the T1x is awesome. They sound great, so musical, and are very non-fatiguing.  I like my Tranya B530 also, but to me, I'm liking the T1x a lot better at the moment.  I've got the  KZ Z1 (and it's 2.5hr battery life) on the way (just shipped out today) and Haylou GT1 Plus (Impulse Buy after seeing a review) arriving someday from China (I'm in California).
> I think I've got the beginnings of FOMO?



Really looking forward about your KZ Z1 impressions, especially vs GT1 plus and T1x mate


----------



## DynamicEars

tgx78 said:


> I like Fiil T1x but Haylou GT1 Plus is even better I feel.
> GT1 Plus has more organic natural sound and slightly less peaky highs = I can listen to it continuously for like 6-8 hours straight.
> 
> Just checked my AliExpress page and saw that I paid CDN$31 for GT1 Plus and $400ish for the moondrop blessing 2 and guess what I prefer the GT1 plus



I also surprised when blind buy this thing when its still new last time and I mod the filter (i cut a quarter of filter and put them back) yes there is a risk of dust getting in but they are gaining more clarity and texture, a bit more open up high mids and trebles but still far away from peaky and harsh. They are sooo balance. I just wish the sound can be a lit bit louder and bass slightly more punchy (i think because driver limitation) but the texture and detail and quality of the bass is great for the price


----------



## tgx78 (May 14, 2020)

DynamicEars said:


> I also surprised when blind buy this thing when its still new last time and I mod the filter (i cut a quarter of filter and put them back) yes there is a risk of dust getting in but they are gaining more clarity and texture, a bit more open up high mids and trebles but still far away from peaky and harsh. They are sooo balance. I just wish the sound can be a lit bit louder and bass slightly more punchy (i think because driver limitation) but the texture and detail and quality of the bass is great for the price



Yes volume is little problematic and agree on bass impact. Tempted to buy few more sets for a gift and modding purpose.


----------



## chinmie

my current TWS tally is:
Airsun X8 ANC
Anker Liberty Neo
Dyplay BQC35 ANC
Earin M2
GGMM T1
Nillkin Go
Sabbat X12 Pro
Sabbat X12 Pro USB C
2x Samsung Galaxy Buds
2x Sony WF-1000XM3
QCY T1C
QCY T5

not counting the other BT stuff:
TRN BT20
2x  TRN BT20S
TRN BT neckband
NiceHCK BT headband

Damson Headbones bone conduction headphones
JBL BT Duet headphone
QCY QY19 neckband
Sony WH-1000XM3 headphone

i also mostly use all my wired headphones/earphones with my BT DAC:
Centrance BlueDAC
Radsone ES100

i think my collection is meager compared to other fellows here


----------



## karloil

Wow, even with my wired IEMs, I already consider mine a lot - but you guys have a ton!  

I only have 3 wireless items, eerrrhhhh....2

- 65T (on my way to my brother)
- Tevi
- UTWS1


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

clerkpalmer said:


> What is the nuprime  audio prototype?



It's an experimental TWS that I am beta testing. It shows promise and only needs a couple of tweaks, and that's all I have to say about it at the moment. I'd like to see it take into production, but that has yet to be decided - it's too early.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

FadeOne said:


> Interesting



Not the best way to boost your post count.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict (May 15, 2020)

Luke Skywalker said:


> Wow, what a collection!  I bought the JH bluetooth cable for my Lola's and didn't like it.  Too much bass and no way to adjust it.  I'm using an ES100 sometimes w/ the JH 2.5 balanced cable and also an iFi xDSD
> 
> The only TWS buds I've found that I like are the N6 Pro's - absolutely love the sound, but wish they had ANC.  I bought the Sony's and hate the sound, although the noise canceling is great.
> 
> ...



(1) TW with ANC - I think, since I love the Momentum True Wireless so much, that the MTW2 might be the best choice for you after what you said above. From what I have read, they're kind of a cross between the MTW and the N6P. They will likely be my next purchase. My original MTW transparency mode is more important to me than ANC, since the passive isolation is pretty decent, but it's not as good as the Air Pods Pro transparency mode which is louder than the mTW and, well, more transparent. I almost always use my Air Pods Pro in transparency mode, and rarely use the ANC.

(2) Regarding JH Audio BT:  The 2-pin JHA cable is great on my JH 13 pro, but with my 2-pin JH16 pro freqphase the midrange gets all congested and muddy sounding with the same 2-pin BT. I'm told the new 4-pin JH16Pro V2 get along great with the 4-pin BT, while the 2-pin isn't made for the impedance load of the older JH16Pro freqphase.

With the JHA 4-pin BT cable on my Roxanne I often use the bass-reducer EQ in my iPhone, and then the wireless Roxanne are great at any volume. But, at low volumes the Roxanne bass is very controlled with the 4-pin BT cable, and it's not so bad without EQ.

(3) This is unlike my refurbished Jabra 75t that arrived today, and have bass that is Waaaay overblown! I MUST LISTEN TO JABRA 75t WITH "BASS REDUCER" or "SPOKEN WORD" type of EQ. I didn't make it through one song before I went to install the Jabra app to try their EQ, after I tried listening.

But the app wanted to update the firmware and said the battery was too low. The case battery and the right earbud were full charge (green) but the left one was red, after shipping to me with the buds in the case, so I'm not sure why the left bud was red-battery if it was playing music after pairing. After 5-10 minutes in the case with the USB-C plugged in, the left is now "orange". After 15 minutes both were green, so I'm downloading the firmware now.

[edit - hope I wasn't premature, iPhone reports battery at 70% during firmware update]

Packaging


----------



## Luke Skywalker

IamJon said:


> Not true wireless but the 1more anc pro is looking interesting. Dual drivers, anc and even supports ldac. https://www.digitaltrends.com/headphone-reviews/1more-dual-driver-anc-review/
> 
> £109 on aliexpress now, really tempting me but trying to wait for reviews.


wow nice, thanks


----------



## RemoGaggi

DynamicEars said:


> Really looking forward about your KZ Z1 impressions, especially vs GT1 plus and T1x mate



I'll be sure to give my impressions - hopefully fairly soon.  The KZ's got shipped out today and the GT1 Plus are supposedly in the U.S. and cleared customs somewhere.  I'm patiently waiting.....


----------



## martiniCZ

I've been listening to Whizzer C3 for more then a week now and I still don't know if I love or hate them more. Everything is somewhere halfway between a cheap crack and a touch of premium. The package looks luxurious, but with only common content. The great thing is that most standard eartips fit to the C3, they don't have a problem even with the longer Spinfits CP100, only most of foam tips don't fit. The charging case looks usually, but even though it has 2 different colored LEDs, it has no indication of the current battery charge status. When opened, the lid wobbles like an old garbage, but on closer inspection I found that fortunately the entire hinge is metal, so not as bad as it looks. There is only micro USB, but it should support wireless charging. The inscription on the lid of the case promises a battery capacity of 1000mAh, but according to my measurement, the real capacity is a ridiculous 380mAh/5V and that seems not enough for a case with dimensions of 70x45x33 mm. I was a little skeptical about the strange pear-shaped earbuds, but I have to admit that such a comfortable and at the same time secure fit in my ear could be envied by many IEMs, as soon as you push them in your ear, they don't move here and don't protrude significantly from your ears like some others TWE. Whizzer probably wanted to save money even on the print, therefore the channel marker is only on the right earbud  The battery capacity of the buds is not mentioned anywhere by the manufacturer, but according to my measurement, 60mAh comes out on each side and therefore the endurance per charge is solid. At a comfortable volume and without switching the master bud C3 played continuously for 5 hours in stereo with AptX, while over 50% of the capacity still remained on the slave earbud. Both are then fully charged in 75 minutes. It's stupid that they will only alert you about the discharge by flashing LEDs, then just stop playing and turn off himself. How much is Whizer "careful" during testing (if any tested at all) is obvious by the fact that although their official name is COOPBUDS C3, it will connect to the devices as CONPBUDS C3  The biggest disappointment for me is the absence of the promised volume control, I need this feature and without it I would never bought it! When I wrote to the seller about it, instead of apologizing, he replied me "the volume control means that control the volume on your phone". I don't like when someone makes a fool of me and I still can't forgive to the official Whizzer seller on AliExpress for the strange business tricks, when he writing fake anonymous reviews himself to improve the rating of his goods, he has already written more than 400 of fake reviews for C3! Whizzer should instead spend their time to checking and correctly describing their goods.
But that doesn't belong here, so let's talk about the sound, it definitely pleased me more on the C3. There is one 10mm dynamic driver on each side and it can be felt! There is no compensation hole anywhere, maybe due to IPX protection, so the C3 is not only extremely loud, but also overly bassy. On C3, no one will complain about the boring sound, it's like a wild animal! On the FR graph you can see the madness compared to TrueDots, which are in themselves considered bass heavy TWE for someone. It might seem like a disaster, but it's not true. It's a typical V-shaped sound, but fortunately the used driver is one of the better. Even with such accentuated bass, the vocals sounds very pleasant, as well as the trebles, which even offers plenty of details. Although probably a little simplified, but clean enough. I just still feel like I'm wearing big headphones and not only small earbuds. I listen mostly to rock, metal, electronics and in some songs from groups like Breaking Benjamin, Asking Alexandria, Shinedown etc. this C3 sounds in critical faster places a bit better, than otherwise great TrueDots, or even often some overcombined wired hybrids, such as TRN V90. I can clearly hear every kick in the drum and cymbal punches, even with enough reverberation, really like how the drums and percussions sounds on C3. The guitars and vocals have a powerful drive and enough space, nothing squeaks anywhere, no annoying piercings. Of course, quantitatively there are more basses than everyone need, but tanks to this I can listen to the C3 even at a lower volume with enough energy. To me C3 make bass more pleasant and interesting compare to TrueDot thanks to the overall composition with the trebles. C3s definitely do not have as too dark or warm sound as stock TrueDot (QCC3020). The sound isn't audiophilic, it's a bit simplified somewhere, sometimes you may feel a lack of mids,  but it's dangerously addictive, fun and musical. I would be afraid to recommend them to everyone and Whizzer definitely doesn't deserve advertising for them, but if you're a bass-loving rocker, that sound will get you. Personally I like that sound and with C3 finding that I'm already using wired IEM less and less!


----------



## uraklechko

Hey guys,
I’m considering Fiil T1x for buying and would like to know if they can compete with AirPods from sound quality perspective?
Thanks in advance.


----------



## TheLionelHutz

Synthy said:


> looks like my galaxy buds have died on me. the left bud is extremely low volume, almost no sound at all, and every thing i've tried (careful cleaning of every ingress, hard reset, software update) hasn't helped. it has been close to a year.
> 
> i got the Shanling MTW100 as a cheap tws in the meantime (and it does have a Knowles BA in it, which is nice), the issue i'm having with it is the stem and tips are all very short, too short in fact for me to get a good seal, and almost every other tip i've tried on them that would be long enough makes them not fit in the case. i'm trying them with the tips from the galaxy buds, which might be just barely long enough to get a seal and just barely short enough to work in the case, but they are tips that i'm not a huge fan of in the first place, the hole is strangely super small.
> 
> ...


Any update on the S90s?


----------



## bubsdaddy

uraklechko said:


> Hey guys,
> I’m considering Fiil T1x for buying and would like to know if they can compete with AirPods from sound quality perspective?
> Thanks in advance.



The Fiil TX1 sounds much better than either the AirPods or AirPods Pro. I own all 3 and it isn't even close on sound quality. That being said, I still use both AirPods more than the FiiL due to the convenience factor.


----------



## jant71 (May 15, 2020)

jant71 said:


> JVC with a little sports model...
> 
> 
> 
> They are BT5.0 Class1, IP55, and 4 hour battery. They don't have ambient mode but use ambient tips if you so choose. Might want to wait for the price to drop some from the $79.95 list price but might be a good workout pair when $50 or less if they put a good sounding driver in it.



So, we got a Gamesky review of these... 

Great sound is good. Cool that we see it is quite easy to slide those ear guides on. Not bad that you can use it four ways, naked, with fins, with just ear guides, and with both fins and earguides. USB C is not a big deal to me at all. Phones are about USB C but clip MP3's, my Legacy BT headphones and even MP3 pocket speaker radios with BL5C batteries all still entrenched so I am majority Micro USB still. Price is still better at $50 to $59 than $79. @$79 they should have aptX and perhaps a couple hours more on the battery. Buttons also may be an issue but perhaps they work fine with the thumb forefinger pinch so one doesn't have to push straight in.

Don't agree that they are "priced right" according to him. maybe better than the Sony XB700 $130 price tag but not a deal or real value till later on. Also surprisingly great sound needs some context vs. other thing like the Sony, Z1, T1X etc. that he liked the sound of.


----------



## uraklechko

bubsdaddy said:


> The Fiil TX1 sounds much better than either the AirPods or AirPods Pro. I own all 3 and it isn't even close on sound quality. That being said, I still use both AirPods more than the FiiL due to the convenience factor.


Thank you! Now I’m have no doubts about having Fiil T1x


----------



## Bobbetybob (May 15, 2020)

What's the deal with the supplies and pricing of the Fiil T1X anyway? They're $50 on Amazon.com but here in the UK they're no longer listed and all the prices from China are like £60+. Guessing it's just Corona related/hype around them, bit annoying though.


----------



## Luke Skywalker

HeadphoneAddict said:


> (1) TW with ANC - I think, since I love the Momentum True Wireless so much, that the MTW2 might be the best choice for you after what you said above. From what I have read, they're kind of a cross between the MTW and the N6P. They will likely be my next purchase. My original MTW transparency mode is more important to me than ANC, since the passive isolation is pretty decent, but it's not as good as the Air Pods Pro transparency mode which is louder than the mTW and, well, more transparent. I almost always use my Air Pods Pro in transparency mode, and rarely use the ANC.
> 
> (2) Regarding JH Audio BT:  The 2-pin JHA cable is great on my JH 13 pro, but with my 2-pin JH16 pro freqphase the midrange gets all congested and muddy sounding with the same 2-pin BT. I'm told the new 4-pin JH16Pro V2 get along great with the 4-pin BT, while the 2-pin isn't made for the impedance load of the older JH16Pro freqphase.
> 
> ...



Dude, thanks for the awesome advice!  I'm definitely going to pick up the MTW2 

Sounds like you love JH too   I listen to my Lola's ALL THE TIME...  I'm using the 2.5mm balanced cable, going into my HiBy R6 Pro, or into the balanced on my iFi xDSD.  My next big purchase will be some custom IEM's.  I'd originally thought of getting the top of the line JH (Layla?) but I might branch out - there are so many other options out there. 

I should prob just sell my JH bluetooth cable.  I love the form factor but I just can't get into the heavy bass.  By the way, thanks for the "bass warning" on the Jabra 75's - I was just listening to my 65's today and pondering whether I should grab the 75's.   Sounds like they wouldn't be a good fit for mr. 

Anyway, thanks again.  I switched to some foam tips on the XM3's today and they sound maybe a little bit better but it really sounds like the MTW2 is gonna be what I'm looking for


----------



## Peddler

voicemaster said:


> 3x Fill T1X
> Nuarl N6 pro
> 1more ANC
> Mpow M5
> ...



I understand brother! We don't judge here.


----------



## Nailzs

Got the new Nuraloop in today. Really loving the dynamic sound. I had to do a bit of tip rolling as the supplied tips were quite bad. They let the earphones sit so close to the ear they were uncomfortable.


----------



## clerkpalmer

Nailzs said:


> Got the new Nuraloop in today. Really loving the dynamic sound. I had to do a bit of tip rolling as the supplied tips were quite bad. They let the earphones sit so close to the ear they were uncomfortable.


Care to comment on sq compared to your tws? I realize the sq is personalized but these interest me if sq is exceptional.


----------



## Nailzs

clerkpalmer said:


> Care to comment on sq compared to your tws? I realize the sq is personalized but these interest me if sq is exceptional.


I think they're all around better than the TWS. The bass is a basshead's dream for wireless. Tight and sharp, even without the personal setup turned on. I think the Nuraloop is almost better than the Nuraphones in sound quality. It is in portability. I would suggest a tip roll for the Nuraloop. Good tips can be found that fit, unlike the Nuraphones.


----------



## McCol

Nailzs said:


> I think they're all around better than the TWS. The bass is a basshead's dream for wireless. Tight and sharp, even without the personal setup turned on. I think the Nuraloop is almost better than the Nuraphones in sound quality. It is in portability. I would suggest a tip roll for the Nuraloop. Good tips can be found that fit, unlike the Nuraphones.


What tips are you using?


----------



## clerkpalmer

Nailzs said:


> I think they're all around better than the TWS. The bass is a basshead's dream for wireless. Tight and sharp, even without the personal setup turned on. I think the Nuraloop is almost better than the Nuraphones in sound quality. It is in portability. I would suggest a tip roll for the Nuraloop. Good tips can be found that fit, unlike the Nuraphones.


Thanks. That's high praise.  I wish they were about 50 bucks cheaper.


----------



## go0gle

Finally got spinfit 360 on my lp2, very comfortable and sounding a bit more open overall. Very niiiceee


----------



## Mixmasterjw

What tws is best for rock/metal music?


----------



## erockg

Mixmasterjw said:


> What tws is best for rock/metal music?


Huge Maiden fan and more.  I'm rocking the Sennheiser MTW2 and I love them.


----------



## Mouseman

Mixmasterjw said:


> What tws is best for rock/metal music?


The L2Ps are great for metal. I was rocking some Dio today in honor of Ronnie, and it sounded awesome.


----------



## bronco1015

RemoGaggi said:


> Out of curiosity, how many different pairs of TWS do each of you own?  And if the number is high, how do you explain that to your wife?


I own the 6 listed in my signature. Fortunately, i don't have to fight that battle haha. I'm sure if i were married, i'd be fielding questions about my audio purchases Good thing i don't have that problem, because this week i bought 2 new over ear bt headphones.


----------



## Nailzs

McCol said:


> What tips are you using?


Tips I dug up from past earphones. I did find foam tips that were with my Mee Pinnacle P1 earphones that fit but didn't seem to let the Nuraloop function correctly. I need to experiment more with the foam tips.


----------



## bronco1015

Luke Skywalker said:


> Dude, thanks for the awesome advice!  I'm definitely going to pick up the MTW2
> 
> Sounds like you love JH too   I listen to my Lola's ALL THE TIME...  I'm using the 2.5mm balanced cable, going into my HiBy R6 Pro, or into the balanced on my iFi xDSD.  My next big purchase will be some custom IEM's.  I'd originally thought of getting the top of the line JH (Layla?) but I might branch out - there are so many other options out there.
> 
> ...


----------



## tendou

Between qcy t5, qcy t2c/qs, haylou gt1 and tronsmart spunky beats which one do you guys prefer?

And can you compare the charging case for them with the haylou gt1?


----------



## baskingshark

https://www.facebook.com/oBravoAudioES/posts/782853322119674

Seems Obravo is coming up with a planar TWS!

This is very very ambitious I gotta say, considering my planar IEMs need a lot of juice/amping.


----------



## Spidermanxd

baskingshark said:


> https://www.facebook.com/oBravoAudioES/posts/782853322119674
> 
> Seems Obravo is coming up with a planar TWS!
> 
> This is very very ambitious I gotta say, considering my planar IEMs need a lot of juice/amping.


If that the case, you lucky to get 3 hours per charge on these


----------



## chinmie

baskingshark said:


> https://www.facebook.com/oBravoAudioES/posts/782853322119674
> 
> Seems Obravo is coming up with a planar TWS!
> 
> This is very very ambitious I gotta say, considering my planar IEMs need a lot of juice/amping.



i paired my SFR MT100 (which uses planar driver and a knowles BA driver) with my BT20S with great result. haven't test them for full battery length though


----------



## DynamicEars (May 16, 2020)

tendou said:


> Between qcy t5, qcy t2c/qs, haylou gt1 and tronsmart spunky beats which one do you guys prefer?
> 
> And can you compare the charging case for them with the haylou gt1?



You will want the Haylou GT1 *PLUS* not pro not vanilla not anything else.
Better than QCYs i have t1c and T5 for me because more balance, less shouty with great details and nice bass texture. 
But the haylou volume level is not loud enough for me at 90%, and 100% too distorded, sounded like the drivers are working too hard.

And spunky beats i well regarded and bartig/scarbir also recommended them but this is from his blog 2 months ago on haylou GT1 plus review


And now im curious about KZ Z1 because some reviewers who love the GT1 Plus said the Z1 have better sound quality (with a lot of cons lile 2.5 batt life, AAC only no APTX, no mentioned of IP rating etc)


----------



## clerkpalmer

baskingshark said:


> https://www.facebook.com/oBravoAudioES/posts/782853322119674
> 
> Seems Obravo is coming up with a planar TWS!
> 
> This is very very ambitious I gotta say, considering my planar IEMs need a lot of juice/amping.


Dont know much about this company but its nice to see some innovation. Anyone familiar with they stuff? Any details on these?


----------



## baskingshark

clerkpalmer said:


> Dont know much about this company but its nice to see some innovation. Anyone familiar with they stuff? Any details on these?



I haven't tried their gear but OBravo seems to be a boutique Taiwanese audio company.

They did release the OBravo Cupid recently (IEM) which was reviewed here on headfi quite positively.


----------



## hifi80sman

go0gle said:


> Finally got spinfit 360 on my lp2, very comfortable and sounding a bit more open overall. Very niiiceee


Nice.  I too went with those and they work great.


----------



## Malodivan10

I have been looking at getting the Nuarl N6 Pro after looking through the earlier posts in the thread, but I am wondering if there are any other possible options at that price range I can compare against.
I know that there's the MW07+ and the MTW2, but those are well above the price range I feel comfortable paying for.


----------



## bronco1015

Malodivan10 said:


> I have been looking at getting the Nuarl N6 Pro after looking through the earlier posts in the thread, but I am wondering if there are any other possible options at that price range I can compare against.
> I know that there's the MW07+ and the MTW2, but those are well above the price range I feel comfortable paying for.


in that range, i'd look at the anker L2p, sennheiser Momentum 1st gen, lypertek tevi, Cambridge Audio Melomania 1.


----------



## Malodivan10

Looking through those, the Lypertek Tevi looks kinda good. Thanks for the suggestions man, I'll take some time to stew over these.
Do you have any opinions in terms of how the N6 Pro performs for it's price? Strangely enough, most of the opinions/reviews I can find in english are mostly concentrated within this thread, the majority otherwise seem to be in chinese.


----------



## karloil

Malodivan10 said:


> Looking through those, the Lypertek Tevi looks kinda good. Thanks for the suggestions man, I'll take some time to stew over these.
> Do you have any opinions in terms of how the N6 Pro performs for it's price? Strangely enough, most of the opinions/reviews I can find in english are mostly concentrated within this thread, the majority otherwise seem to be in chinese.



Hey man, too bad we are still on lockdown and you can't just head over to Jaben and Stereo to try both! 

For it's price, the Tevi is really bang for your buck! To my ears, the N6 Pro has a move refined presentation, has better bass impact - but at twice the price. If you can still wait, I suggest that you audition both first before purchasing.


----------



## bronco1015

Malodivan10 said:


> Looking through those, the Lypertek Tevi looks kinda good. Thanks for the suggestions man, I'll take some time to stew over these.
> Do you have any opinions in terms of how the N6 Pro performs for it's price? Strangely enough, most of the opinions/reviews I can find in english are mostly concentrated within this thread, the majority otherwise seem to be in chinese.


No problem. The Tevi's are a great choice imo. AS far as the N6 Pro being worth $162? i really think they are worth that price. YMMV of course, but heres a break down of them. Some of this you've probably seen if you've read through posts since January. Things they don't have. ANC, Transparency mode, a higher IP rating than some, but still IP4. Each can be used in mono but also has full controls on each iem. playback, assistent, answer and end calls, track navigation, volume control. 11 hour battery life. AAC and APTX and probably SBC but can't remember for sure. even the stock tips they come with are pretty good, plus they add some spinfit 360s as well.
Great instrument separation, detail retrieval and decent soundstage. placement of instruments is much better than i would have thought for the price. plenty of bass that gets tighter the mor you use them. Treble also smooths out after a while. They are a tad harsh initially, but not that bad imo. To echo some of what others have said, i have heard wired iems that cost much mor than these sound objectively worse with a good fit.


----------



## Malodivan10

karloil said:


> Hey man, too bad we are still on lockdown and you can't just head over to Jaben and Stereo to try both!
> 
> For it's price, the Tevi is really bang for your buck! To my ears, the N6 Pro has a move refined presentation, has better bass impact - but at twice the price. If you can still wait, I suggest that you audition both first before purchasing.



Indeed the lockdown's a bummer but eh what can we do?

I'm still leaning a bit more to the N6 Pro right now, but here's hoping that the lockdown will end soon so I can test both in person. Or my patience runs out fast enough that I end up with both coming in the mail anyway. 



bronco1015 said:


> No problem. The Tevi's are a great choice imo. AS far as the N6 Pro being worth $162? i really think they are worth that price. YMMV of course, but heres a break down of them. Some of this you've probably seen if you've read through posts since January. Things they don't have. ANC, Transparency mode, a higher IP rating than some, but still IP4. Each can be used in mono but also has full controls on each iem. playback, assistent, answer and end calls, track navigation, volume control. 11 hour battery life. AAC and APTX and probably SBC but can't remember for sure. even the stock tips they come with are pretty good, plus they add some spinfit 360s as well.
> Great instrument separation, detail retrieval and decent soundstage. placement of instruments is much better than i would have thought for the price. plenty of bass that gets tighter the mor you use them. Treble also smooths out after a while. They are a tad harsh initially, but not that bad imo. To echo some of what others have said, i have heard wired iems that cost much mor than these sound objectively worse with a good fit.



That is sounding more like the kind of sound I'd like in a headphone. Regarding the ANC though, does the N6 Pro's sound isolation work well enough to do without it? The earlier posts mentioned that and how it blocked out sound for the most part even without ANC.


----------



## tendou

DynamicEars said:


> You will want the Haylou GT1 *PLUS* not pro not vanilla not anything else.
> Better than QCYs i have t1c and T5 for me because more balance, less shouty with great details and nice bass texture.
> But the haylou volume level is not loud enough for me at 90%, and 100% too distorded, sounded like the drivers are working too hard.
> 
> ...



Thanks! Seems scarbir recommend them. I'll wait for a good deal on them.


----------



## karloil

Malodivan10 said:


> Indeed the lockdown's a bummer but eh what can we do?
> 
> I'm still leaning a bit more to the N6 Pro right now, but here's hoping that the lockdown will end soon so I can test both in person. Or my patience runs out fast enough that I end up with both coming in the mail anyway.
> 
> That is sounding more like the kind of sound I'd like in a headphone. Regarding the ANC though, does the N6 Pro's sound isolation work well enough to do without it? The earlier posts mentioned that and how it blocked out sound for the most part even without ANC.



Yeah, better to be safe than sorry! But hey, if you have the budget, purchasing both is still worth it (IMO). But if you can still wait till 1 June, then you might be able to save more 😀

When I auditioned the N6 Pro, I had to switch to Spinfits to get a good seal. The default tips didn't really make the N6 Pro sit well in my ears. But as with all tips, YMMV - but another good excuse for you to try it in-store 1st before purchasing.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

martiniCZ said:


> I've been listening to Whizzer C3 for more then a week now and I still don't know if I love or hate them more. Everything is somewhere halfway between a cheap crack and a touch of premium. The package looks luxurious, but with only common content. The great thing is that most standard eartips fit to the C3, they don't have a problem even with the longer Spinfits CP100, only most of foam tips don't fit. The charging case looks usually, but even though it has 2 different colored LEDs, it has no indication of the current battery charge status. When opened, the lid wobbles like an old garbage, but on closer inspection I found that fortunately the entire hinge is metal, so not as bad as it looks. There is only micro USB, but it should support wireless charging. The inscription on the lid of the case promises a battery capacity of 1000mAh, but according to my measurement, the real capacity is a ridiculous 380mAh/5V and that seems not enough for a case with dimensions of 70x45x33 mm. I was a little skeptical about the strange pear-shaped earbuds, but I have to admit that such a comfortable and at the same time secure fit in my ear could be envied by many IEMs, as soon as you push them in your ear, they don't move here and don't protrude significantly from your ears like some others TWE. Whizzer probably wanted to save money even on the print, therefore the channel marker is only on the right earbud  The battery capacity of the buds is not mentioned anywhere by the manufacturer, but according to my measurement, 60mAh comes out on each side and therefore the endurance per charge is solid. At a comfortable volume and without switching the master bud C3 played continuously for 5 hours in stereo with AptX, while over 50% of the capacity still remained on the slave earbud. Both are then fully charged in 75 minutes. It's stupid that they will only alert you about the discharge by flashing LEDs, then just stop playing and turn off himself. How much is Whizer "careful" during testing (if any tested at all) is obvious by the fact that although their official name is COOPBUDS C3, it will connect to the devices as CONPBUDS C3  The biggest disappointment for me is the absence of the promised volume control, I need this feature and without it I would never bought it! When I wrote to the seller about it, instead of apologizing, he replied me "the volume control means that control the volume on your phone". I don't like when someone makes a fool of me and I still can't forgive to the official Whizzer seller on AliExpress for the strange business tricks, when he writing fake anonymous reviews himself to improve the rating of his goods, he has already written more than 400 of fake reviews for C3! Whizzer should instead spend their time to checking and correctly describing their goods.
> But that doesn't belong here, so let's talk about the sound, it definitely pleased me more on the C3. There is one 10mm dynamic driver on each side and it can be felt! There is no compensation hole anywhere, maybe due to IPX protection, so the C3 is not only extremely loud, but also overly bassy. On C3, no one will complain about the boring sound, it's like a wild animal! On the FR graph you can see the madness compared to TrueDots, which are in themselves considered bass heavy TWE for someone. It might seem like a disaster, but it's not true. It's a typical V-shaped sound, but fortunately the used driver is one of the better. Even with such accentuated bass, the vocals sounds very pleasant, as well as the trebles, which even offers plenty of details. Although probably a little simplified, but clean enough. I just still feel like I'm wearing big headphones and not only small earbuds. I listen mostly to rock, metal, electronics and in some songs from groups like Breaking Benjamin, Asking Alexandria, Shinedown etc. this C3 sounds in critical faster places a bit better, than otherwise great TrueDots, or even often some overcombined wired hybrids, such as TRN V90. I can clearly hear every kick in the drum and cymbal punches, even with enough reverberation, really like how the drums and percussions sounds on C3. The guitars and vocals have a powerful drive and enough space, nothing squeaks anywhere, no annoying piercings. Of course, quantitatively there are more basses than everyone need, but tanks to this I can listen to the C3 even at a lower volume with enough energy. To me C3 make bass more pleasant and interesting compare to TrueDot thanks to the overall composition with the trebles. C3s definitely do not have as too dark or warm sound as stock TrueDot (QCC3020). The sound isn't audiophilic, it's a bit simplified somewhere, sometimes you may feel a lack of mids,  but it's dangerously addictive, fun and musical. I would be afraid to recommend them to everyone and Whizzer definitely doesn't deserve advertising for them, but if you're a bass-loving rocker, that sound will get you. Personally I like that sound and with C3 finding that I'm already using wired IEM less and less!



Great impressions. It was a hard read without paragraphs though, I had to narrow my browser window to make the review one long tall but narrow column, in order to track each line to the next.



uraklechko said:


> Hey guys,
> I’m considering Fiil T1x for buying and would like to know if they can compete with AirPods from sound quality perspective?
> Thanks in advance.



I should have some impressions coming this week.



Luke Skywalker said:


> Dude, thanks for the awesome advice!  I'm definitely going to pick up the MTW2
> 
> Sounds like you love JH too   I listen to my Lola's ALL THE TIME...  I'm using the 2.5mm balanced cable, going into my HiBy R6 Pro, or into the balanced on my iFi xDSD.  My next big purchase will be some custom IEM's.  I'd originally thought of getting the top of the line JH (Layla?) but I might branch out - there are so many other options out there.
> 
> ...



I love my Roxanna with my Moon-Audio balanced Black Dragon cable and CEntrance balanced BlueDAC. I still have yet to try them balanced with my Fiio BTR5. I have a CEntrance HiFiM8 V2 balanced amp on the way, and I should have time to compare then. I've listened to all of the JH Audio universal fit demo's at Rocky Mountain Audio Fest each year, and I still think the Roxanna are my favorite, with the JH 16 Pro V2 being their best bang for the buck. 

My 2009 JH13 pro are fantastic sounding, but if I was new to buying their IEM and I could afford to move up to the JH 16 Pro V2 I would, which gives them a richer more lifelike midrange. I didn't think the more expensive models were better than the Roxanne on a good amp, just different. But, the Roxanne do need to be amp'd while my JH 13 Pro and JH 16 Pro freqphase are easier to drive unamped with an iPhone. You should try a "bass reducer" EQ before you sell the JHA BT cable.

As for the Jabra 75t, after just 4 hours of use the bass is a slightly less bloated and slightly better controlled, but not nearly as good as the tight punchy bass on the MTW1. But they do EQ well with the Jabra app, and I am currently using the "Speech" EQ setting to smooth them out and tame the bass, while letting them still kick hard. The treble booster setting tames the bass below the flat line, but also bumps the treble too much - but you can adjust the preset EQ's to your tastes and save the new setting as a custom preset. Once I saved a custom preset EQ I was unable to remove it. I might have to delete the iOS app to delete the settings if I wanted to start over again.

My understanding is that the MTW2 have a little less bass than the MTW1 and and don't sound as dark, while still having controlled bass. My Sennheiser app EQ works pretty well without distortion, although making it harder to fix deficiencies due to the way the EQ changes are programmed. You pick a frequency region to raise or lower relative to the the others, but can't do as much with it as with a 5-band or 10-band EQ. Fortunately, for the MTW you can easily add a smidge of treble and leave it alone, and I'd guess that if the MTW2 need more bass that would be pretty easy too. 

I can listen to the MTW1 all day without any EQ, same with my N6P, although It doesn't hurt to sometimes add a tiny bit of treble with the MTW1 to add clarity in dark recordings, or remove a tiny bit of treble in the N6P for certain harsh recordings. But, so far the Jabra 75t require me to use their App's EQ to tame the bass - and the speech mode does that. Despite "speech" EQ cutting the highest treble down as well, I don't seem to miss the treble.

I do like the Jabra 75t "hear-through" setting that my N6P are missing, but that brings noticeable hiss to the background between songs. The MTW1 transparency mode volume is not as loud as the 75t hear-through mode, so to hear my wife calling me while using the MTW1 I have to play my music at a lower volume than when using the 75t or Air Pods Pro. My Air Pods Pro transparency is the best of the 3, but I have read that the MTW2 has an improved transparency mode that is better than MTW1. I don't know if it keeps up with the APP until I get a pair.



Malodivan10 said:


> ...snip...That is sounding more like the kind of sound I'd like in a headphone. Regarding the ANC though, does the N6 Pro's sound isolation work well enough to do without it? The earlier posts mentioned that and how it blocked out sound for the most part even without ANC.



As for ANC, the N6P do passively isolate a bit more than the MTW, but the MTW isolation is good enough that I was able to use them on a few plane flights last October, December, and January. I would miss transparency mode more than missing ANC, especially since N6P are so quiet.


----------



## PhoenixClaw

This is perhaps a very specialized question. but with the whole focus on teleconferencing and whanot, I've been looking for a neckband-style wireless earphone. My main issue with TWS like galaxy buds and wf xm3 were that they are hard for "one ear" use and I risked losing them if they drop off my ear. Are there any good ones around? Hoping for USB C charging so I won't need to have another cable.


----------



## DigDub (May 17, 2020)

With the latest update for the original galaxy buds + spinfit 360 tips + dynamic EQ in the galaxy app, the galaxy buds treble and mids sound remarkably similar to the nuarl n6 pro. The bass on the galaxy buds are a tad boomier while the bass on the n6 pro is tighter. The original galaxy buds are pretty cheap right now as it is an older product, so it might be worth a try as well.


----------



## bronco1015

Malodivan10 said:


> Indeed the lockdown's a bummer but eh what can we do?
> 
> I'm still leaning a bit more to the N6 Pro right now, but here's hoping that the lockdown will end soon so I can test both in person. Or my patience runs out fast enough that I end up with both coming in the mail anyway.
> 
> ...


not at Etymotic level, but they're better than say the OG MTW for sure. I don't have the Tevi anymore to compare and i sold the L2P when i got the N6 Pro. With music even at a lower volume i get sufficient isolation on a noisy bus. Of course that was months ago at this point lol.


----------



## go0gle

hifi80sman said:


> Nice.  I too went with those and they work great.



Have you noticed a change in sound signature ?


----------



## TheLionelHutz

DigDub said:


> With the latest update for the original galaxy buds + spinfit 360 tips + dynamic EQ in the galaxy app, the galaxy buds treble and mids sound remarkably similar to the nuarl n6 pro. The bass on the galaxy buds are a tad boomier while the bass on the n6 pro is tighter. The original galaxy buds are pretty cheap right now as it is an older product, so it might be worth a try as well.


Thanks for this. I've been thinking about trying the Buds+ since I just got my first Samsung phone (S20). Is the difference with the Samsung Scalable codec noticeable?  And does the app improve on the built-in system equalizer?


----------



## karloil (May 17, 2020)

PhoenixClaw said:


> This is perhaps a very specialized question. but with the whole focus on teleconferencing and whanot, I've been looking for a neckband-style wireless earphone. My main issue with TWS like galaxy buds and wf xm3 were that they are hard for "one ear" use and I risked losing them if they drop off my ear. Are there any good ones around? Hoping for USB C charging so I won't need to have another cable.



Like these?:

https://www.stereo.com.sg/1more-e1001bt-wireless-triple-driver-earphone.html

https://www.stereo.com.sg/sennheiser-ie80s-bt-wireless-earphones.html


----------



## DigDub

TheLionelHutz said:


> Thanks for this. I've been thinking about trying the Buds+ since I just got my first Samsung phone (S20). Is the difference with the Samsung Scalable codec noticeable?  And does the app improve on the built-in system equalizer?


I have the buds+ as well,  I find them too bright in the treble and thin in the mids. I prefer the more balanced sound of the original buds. I personally don't hear much of  a difference between aptx, aac and the scalable codec, if any. I'm using a s20+ phone.


----------



## Darkestred (May 17, 2020)

Picked up a pair of Nuarl N6.  Pretty damn nice TWS.  I was surprised by the amount of bass until i put in the liberty 2 pros.  The one complaint i have with the L2P is they are a bit thin and the N6 definitely alleviates this issue.  Pretty natural sounding TWS set, too.  "A/B'n" made choices even more difficult.  On one hand the L2P just sounds so damn nice and then the n6 slams you in the face with its energy while still sounding good.  Either way, the brain quickly adjusts and in that moment, the current set in the ears becomes the perfect TWS solution.

The L2P, has some coloration to its sound, slightly better separation and treble clarity.  Also,a smoother sound profile hinting towards liquid vs the more energetic and no holds barred N6.  Bass on the N6 has more control but weighty even though the L2P has more of it, if that makes sense.  Perhaps, due to L2P maybe having more sub vs the combo of mid and sub on the N6. Notes on the N6 are full/thick, whereas the L2P has more air and a thinner mid range.

Nice pickup.  The N6 may become my home theatre goto.


----------



## thrgk

Darkestred said:


> Picked up a pair of Nuarl N6.  Pretty damn nice TWS.  I was surprised by the amount of bass until i put in the liberty 2 pros.  The one complaint i have with the L2P is they are a bit thin and the N6 definitely alleviates this issue.  Pretty natural sounding TWS set, too.  "A/B'n" made choices even more difficult.  On one hand the L2P just sounds so damn nice and then the n6 slams you in the face with its energy while still sounding good.  Either way, the brain quickly adjusts and in that moment, the current set in the ears becomes the perfect TWS solution.
> 
> The L2P, has some coloration to its sound, slightly better seperation and treble clarity.  Also,a smoother sound profile hinting towards liquid vs the more energetic and no holds barred N6.  Bass on the N6 has more control but weighty even though the L2P has more of it, if that makes sense.  Perhaps, due to L2P maybe having more sub vs the combo of mid and sub on the N6. Notes on the N6 are full/thick, whereas the L2P has more air and a thinner mid range.
> 
> Nice pickup.  The N6 may become my home theatre goto.


Does the L2p have better call quality compared to N6 in your opinion?


----------



## Darkestred

thrgk said:


> Does the L2p have better call quality compared to N6 in your opinion?




I have not tested call functionality, yet but i will create an updated post when i do.


----------



## Ocelitgol

DigDub said:


> I have the buds+ as well,  I find them too bright in the treble and thin in the mids. I prefer the more balanced sound of the original buds. I personally don't hear much of  a difference between aptx, aac and the scalable codec, if any. I'm using a s20+ phone.


Even with Soft EQ?


----------



## TheLionelHutz

DigDub said:


> I have the buds+ as well,  I find them too bright in the treble and thin in the mids. I prefer the more balanced sound of the original buds. I personally don't hear much of  a difference between aptx, aac and the scalable codec, if any. I'm using a s20+ phone.


Oh, sorry, I see now I misread your original post - but thanks for thoughts on the Buds+ anyway! I found the original to be very clinical and bass anemic - sub-bass that I knew should be there wasn't just "not forward," but was barely audible.  I liked everything about the sound except that I kind of wanted to add a subwoofer to the mix.  What's funny is that most reviews I've read suggest that this is improved in the Buds+. I don't recall reading anyone else saying they were too bright.


----------



## alleroy

Has anybody paired some tws with Amazon Fire Stick (Basic or 4k) and experienced latency between video and audio?


----------



## voicemaster

TheLionelHutz said:


> Oh, sorry, I see now I misread your original post - but thanks for thoughts on the Buds+ anyway! I found the original to be very clinical and bass anemic - sub-bass that I knew should be there wasn't just "not forward," but was barely audible.  I liked everything about the sound except that I kind of wanted to add a subwoofer to the mix.  What's funny is that most reviews I've read suggest that this is improved in the Buds+. I don't recall reading anyone else saying they were too bright.


Absolutely love mine +. I mainly use it at work for lunch break and taking phone calls. With the +, I can use only one side and activate ambiance mode so I can still hear people talking. I am working in the kitchen so awareness is very important and the ability to use ambiance mode with only one earbud is awesome. Phone call is also very good. I called my wife while working (fan noise, cart with metal trays that rattle like hell, people talking, music from the building, etc) and she thought I was still at home LOL. Extremely please with mine and the sound quality can match KZ ZS10pro with less bass.


----------



## DigDub

Ocelitgol said:


> Even with Soft EQ?


I don't quite like the sound with soft EQ.


----------



## DigDub

TheLionelHutz said:


> Oh, sorry, I see now I misread your original post - but thanks for thoughts on the Buds+ anyway! I found the original to be very clinical and bass anemic - sub-bass that I knew should be there wasn't just "not forward," but was barely audible.  I liked everything about the sound except that I kind of wanted to add a subwoofer to the mix.  What's funny is that most reviews I've read suggest that this is improved in the Buds+. I don't recall reading anyone else saying they were too bright.


The nuarl n6 pro has even lesser bass than the original galaxy buds. So it might not suit you and well. I have come to realize there may be different releases for the buds+ from the recent postings here. Some say theirs are ok while others say they are too bright. So it may be a case of mine being tuned to be brighter.


----------



## Luke Skywalker (May 17, 2020)

Malodivan10 said:


> I have been looking at getting the Nuarl N6 Pro after looking through the earlier posts in the thread, but I am wondering if there are any other possible options at that price range I can compare against.
> I know that there's the MW07+ and the MTW2, but those are well above the price range I feel comfortable paying for.


Oh dude you’ll love the N6 pro’s. Someone on this thread recommended them and I like Them way better than the Jabra 65 and the Sony XM3. I was listening to them today shortly after my Lola’s and they’re just awesome for the price.

just read the “bass” part.  I’m not too into bass so I’m not sure if they’d hit the mark for you in that. I’m way more into instrumental guitar, classical, female vocals, bluegrass, jazz, electronic


----------



## Ultrainferno

Today we review the Edifier TWS6 and the TWS NB IEMs. 
https://www.headfonia.com/edifier-tws6-tws-nb-review/

Enjoy!


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Well I got my FIIL T1X And I’m not sure I can keep them. They sound great for $50, playing above their price point.  

HOWEVER, it took me 15 MINUTES to get my ear canal pressure equalized with the pressure behind the driver, so that they would seal well and still play freely without the drivers binding up.

This is unacceptable. I thought the “driver flex” issue was just going to be a “crinkly” sound that the drivers would make when adjusting the fit - but instead it prevents the drivers from moving properly to produce the best sound.

But what I do like is (1) they are quite comfortable vs My N6P, (2) they don’t need to be EQ’d but using EQ via the app is subtle and doesn’t ruin the sound, and (3) with a partial seal to allow you to avoid driver flex and hear things around you, they still make bass and don’t fall out.


----------



## Caipirina (May 18, 2020)

It looks like MPow is debuting their own ANC TWS set. Seen on AliExpress, for some strange reason this listing in my wishlist (with allegedly 74 5star reviews) leads to a 404 page, also can't find it on mpow's official store .. and a search for mpow x3 anc tws goes empty .. but there ARE other shops with that offer .. bit of a mystery ...

Well, anyone already listened to them?

(edit: i see now that gameski did ... hey, ipx7 on a pair on ANC, that's impressive ... )


----------



## neleda

Hello. I'm looking for headphones. I have read user reviews for a long time. I got the impression that the S101 model is good in durability, battery capacity and sound quality.  What can you tell me about this model? Would you recommend s119, which is at the top of this model? I am stuck between the two models, but it doesn't seem like much difference. My priority is music quality and less problems (connection problems, charging problems etc.) The s101 see as if it works more stable. s119 has read many comments bad on user comments. My budget is $ 35. Thanks to everyone who will help in advance.


SYLLABLE S101  VS  SYLLABLE S119


----------



## Caipirina

neleda said:


> Hello. I'm looking for headphones. I have read user reviews for a long time. I got the impression that the S101 model is good in durability, battery capacity and sound quality.  What can you tell me about this model? Would you recommend s119, which is at the top of this model? I am stuck between the two models, but it doesn't seem like much difference. My priority is music quality and less problems (connection problems, charging problems etc.) The s101 see as if it works more stable. s119 has read many comments bad on user comments. My budget is $ 35. Thanks to everyone who will help in advance.
> 
> 
> SYLLABLE S101  VS  SYLLABLE S119



Check out the Haylou GT1  .. those are awesome, cheaper, very pocketable  ...


----------



## RemoGaggi

AudioNoob said:


> Does your PC not have BT? To go from a digital source > DAC + Amplification > ADC > Re-encode for Bluetooth > TWS seems like a worse way to go than Digital Source > Re-encode for Bluetooth > TWS. You might be better off with a bluetooth dongle for your pc





RemoGaggi said:


> My PC doesn't have built in BT, but I did order a 5.0 BT Dongle, so I'll give that a try when it gets here.



I received my generic BT 5.0 dongle for my PC and while it works fine, it sounds awful - dead, lifeless, blah.  My pc setup with Audioquest Dragonfly Red + Trond BT-DUO transmitter sounds a ton better than the generic BT dongle.  It's a minor inconvenience to have to manually turn on the BT transmitter each time, but my FIIL T1x sound great with this setup.  I had initially tried this setup with my Tranya B530, but the B530 keep powering off when using the my external BT Transmitter after approximately 4.5 minutes (this is what led to buy another earbud, then another, and another).  
On a side note, the customer service at Tranya was great as they tried to help me figure out the problem and at the end, it turned out the Tranya B530 just didn't work with the external BT transmitter (I also tried the B530 with a couple of older BT transmitters - same problem).  I think the issue has something to do with the manner in how the B530 pairs as there is a B530R and B530L when pairing and for some reason, the external BT transmitters don't communicate properly with them, causing the B530 thinking it's idle (even though they are working and sounding fine) and then powering off.  My Tranya B530 do work fine (no powering off issue) with my laptop's built in BT and my Ipad.


----------



## neleda

Caipirina said:


> Check out the Haylou GT1  .. those are awesome, cheaper, very pocketable  ...




I examined the Gt1 model. However, there are many who say that the loudness is seriously low. Although the gt1 plus model provided better sound quality, its volume was also low. It seems that there is not much price difference between s101 and gt1 plus. I guess you do not recommend the syllable brand?!


----------



## AudioNoob

RemoGaggi said:


> I received my generic BT 5.0 dongle for my PC and while it works fine, it sounds awful - dead, lifeless, blah.  My pc setup with Audioquest Dragonfly Red + Trond BT-DUO transmitter sounds a ton better than the generic BT dongle.  It's a minor inconvenience to have to manually turn on the BT transmitter each time, but my FIIL T1x sound great with this setup.  I had initially tried this setup with my Tranya B530, but the B530 keep powering off when using the my external BT Transmitter after approximately 4.5 minutes (this is what led to buy another earbud, then another, and another).
> On a side note, the customer service at Tranya was great as they tried to help me figure out the problem and at the end, it turned out the Tranya B530 just didn't work with the external BT transmitter (I also tried the B530 with a couple of older BT transmitters - same problem).  I think the issue has something to do with the manner in how the B530 pairs as there is a B530R and B530L when pairing and for some reason, the external BT transmitters don't communicate properly with them, causing the B530 thinking it's idle (even though they are working and sounding fine) and then powering off.  My Tranya B530 do work fine (no powering off issue) with my laptop's built in BT and my Ipad.


You might just like the coloration of the amps, but it might also be the codec. Does your BT transmitter support aptx etc?


----------



## Caipirina

neleda said:


> I examined the Gt1 model. However, there are many who say that the loudness is seriously low. Although the gt1 plus model provided better sound quality, its volume was also low. It seems that there is not much price difference between s101 and gt1 plus. I guess you do not recommend the syllable brand?!



As I mentioned, there is nothing wrong at all with the S101. And it appears you did your homework and you know what things are important for you (like lots of volume, which I can't even say is the S101 has a lot or not). What I recall regarding connectivity is that on ONE run the left bud's signal dropped. I fixed this just by randomly pressing buttons on the buds (i very much prefer tactile buttons over touch fields) and eventually the left bud came back.
Nice is also that the S101 has aptx 
Never done a full battery test


----------



## RemoGaggi

AudioNoob said:


> You might just like the coloration of the amps, but it might also be the codec. Does your BT transmitter support aptx etc?


My Trond BT Transmitter has Aptx, but my Fiil T1x does not.  My Tranya B530 has Aptx and sound good with the transmitter, but my Fiil T1x sound better than the B530 even though the T1x don't have Aptx.


----------



## Caipirina

neleda said:


> I examined the Gt1 model. However, there are many who say that the loudness is seriously low. Although the gt1 plus model provided better sound quality, its volume was also low. It seems that there is not much price difference between s101 and gt1 plus. I guess you do not recommend the syllable brand?!



just put them in my ears again, after a while .. and they are delightful. Happy i bought them, even though they don't get a lot of playtime


----------



## neleda

Caipirina said:


> As I mentioned, there is nothing wrong at all with the S101. And it appears you did your homework and you know what things are important for you (like lots of volume, which I can't even say is the S101 has a lot or not). What I recall regarding connectivity is that on ONE run the left bud's signal dropped. I fixed this just by randomly pressing buttons on the buds (i very much prefer tactile buttons over touch fields) and eventually the left bud came back.
> Nice is also that the S101 has aptx
> Never done a full battery test



The S119's design and touch buttons look beautiful. But look at this


----------



## thrgk

Caipirina said:


> It looks like MPow is debuting their own ANC TWS set. Seen on AliExpress, for some strange reason this listing in my wishlist (with allegedly 74 5star reviews) leads to a 404 page, also can't find it on mpow's official store .. and a search for mpow x3 anc tws goes empty .. but there ARE other shops with that offer .. bit of a mystery ...
> 
> Well, anyone already listened to them?
> 
> (edit: i see now that gameski did ... hey, ipx7 on a pair on ANC, that's impressive ... )



Aren't these it? I've had them and the fit seems to be hard to get set well. https://www.amazon.com/Mpow-Bluetoo...coding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=722K499232V1XH3JR9WD


----------



## Caipirina

thrgk said:


> Aren't these it? I've had them and the fit seems to be hard to get set well. https://www.amazon.com/Mpow-Bluetooth-Cancellation-Control，27-Waterproof/dp/B082G2RKSV/ref=pd_ybh_a_126?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=722K499232V1XH3JR9WD



Looks like the same ... good input with the fit .. something I very much keep in mind with stem based buds ... like the whizzer tp1, i always need to switch to tips that reach longer into the ear canal for good seal (of course they don't fit into the case with those tips) ...     
Also how that one reviewer quantifies the ANC: "the sony at 229$ cancel 90% of sound, and these Mpow at 60$ cancel 50% ..." ... nothing I feel I need in my stable ...


----------



## Caipirina

neleda said:


> The S119's design and touch buttons look beautiful. But look at this



They can dive? nice


----------



## neleda (May 18, 2020)

https://ibb.co/T8pfG0V

Which one looks best ? Upper s119 bottom s101


----------



## thrgk

Caipirina said:


> Looks like the same ... good input with the fit .. something I very much keep in mind with stem based buds ... like the whizzer tp1, i always need to switch to tips that reach longer into the ear canal for good seal (of course they don't fit into the case with those tips) ...
> Also how that one reviewer quantifies the ANC: "the sony at 229$ cancel 90% of sound, and these Mpow at 60$ cancel 50% ..." ... nothing I feel I need in my stable ...


What TWS eaerbuds do you recommend that fit well? I am looking for a good fitting pair. I wont with the mpow which tips I can use to go deeper


----------



## Caipirina

neleda said:


> https://ibb.co/T8pfG0V
> 
> Which one looks best ? Upper s119 bottom s101



s101


----------



## clerkpalmer

According to Engadget, the new Sony is LDAC Compatible.  Doesn't seem right but I'm looking for confirmation - that would be a must by for me.:

One more thing about the noise cancellation: The WF-SP800N doesn’t have the same QN1e ANC chip as the WF-1000XM3. Sony didn’t go into specifics, only saying that the component that powers the pricier model isn’t inside these. The company was also clear that the WF-SP800N doesn’t support the DSEE HX software on the WF-1000XM3 that upscales MP3 and AAC audio “to near high-resolution sound quality.” *However, this new model is compatible with LDAC: t*echnology that allows you to stream high-resolution audio over Bluetooth. Plus, the WF-SP800N also has Sony’s Extra Bass chops, so there’s an emphasis on deep, rich, low-end tone.


----------



## tgx78

HeadphoneAddict said:


> Well I got my FIIL T1X And I’m not sure I can keep them. They sound great for $50, playing above their price point.
> 
> HOWEVER, it took me 15 MINUTES to get my ear canal pressure equalized with the pressure behind the driver, so that they would seal well and still play freely without the drivers binding up.
> 
> ...



Have you tried tip rolling it? I found some genetic silicone tips that work well without causing pressure build up.


----------



## McCol

clerkpalmer said:


> According to Engadget, the new Sony is LDAC Compatible.  Doesn't seem right but I'm looking for confirmation - that would be a must by for me.:
> 
> One more thing about the noise cancellation: The WF-SP800N doesn’t have the same QN1e ANC chip as the WF-1000XM3. Sony didn’t go into specifics, only saying that the component that powers the pricier model isn’t inside these. The company was also clear that the WF-SP800N doesn’t support the DSEE HX software on the WF-1000XM3 that upscales MP3 and AAC audio “to near high-resolution sound quality.” *However, this new model is compatible with LDAC: t*echnology that allows you to stream high-resolution audio over Bluetooth. Plus, the WF-SP800N also has Sony’s Extra Bass chops, so there’s an emphasis on deep, rich, low-end tone.


Looks like Engadget have updated the page to say the Sony's aren't LDAC compatible


----------



## clerkpalmer

McCol said:


> Looks like Engadget have updated the page to say the Sony's aren't LDAC compatible


Figured it was a mistake.


----------



## Peddler

Whilst I think that it's a shame that Sony didn't offer LDAC with their WF1000XM3's, I have to say that they sound glorious to my ears - whilst I really rate the Lypertek Tevi's from a sound quality perspective (slightly more detailed than the Sony's), I find the Sony's offer the complete package.


----------



## sponsor

clerkpalmer said:


> According to Engadget, the new Sony is LDAC Compatible.  Doesn't seem right but I'm looking for confirmation - that would be a must by for me.:
> 
> One more thing about the noise cancellation: The WF-SP800N doesn’t have the same QN1e ANC chip as the WF-1000XM3. Sony didn’t go into specifics, only saying that the component that powers the pricier model isn’t inside these. The company was also clear that the WF-SP800N doesn’t support the DSEE HX software on the WF-1000XM3 that upscales MP3 and AAC audio “to near high-resolution sound quality.” *However, this new model is compatible with LDAC: t*echnology that allows you to stream high-resolution audio over Bluetooth. Plus, the WF-SP800N also has Sony’s Extra Bass chops, so there’s an emphasis on deep, rich, low-end tone.



Anybody having any news on WF-1000XM4? Would've bought the XM3s already if only the case was a little bit smaller.


----------



## voicemaster

RemoGaggi said:


> My Trond BT Transmitter has Aptx, but my Fiil T1x does not.  My Tranya B530 has Aptx and sound good with the transmitter, but my Fiil T1x sound better than the B530 even though the T1x don't have Aptx.


I don't know what they do with their AAC codec, but it is amazing.


----------



## voicemaster

HeadphoneAddict said:


> Well I got my FIIL T1X And I’m not sure I can keep them. They sound great for $50, playing above their price point.
> 
> HOWEVER, it took me 15 MINUTES to get my ear canal pressure equalized with the pressure behind the driver, so that they would seal well and still play freely without the drivers binding up.
> 
> ...


Maybe try a foam tips?


----------



## jsmiller58

McCol said:


> Looks like Engadget have updated the page to say the Sony's aren't LDAC compatible


Poop


----------



## Mouseman

McCol said:


> Looks like Engadget have updated the page to say the Sony's aren't LDAC compatible


I don't understand why Sony can't get their act together. They could make a killer set, but they always seem to leave a feature off or hobble them somehow.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

tgx78 said:


> Have you tried tip rolling it? I found some genetic silicone tips that work well without causing pressure build up.





voicemaster said:


> Maybe try a foam tips?



I’ll see if I have any tips that fit the T1X, but I’m always afraid of getting a tip stuck in my ear because it wasn’t the right fit for hanging onto the nozzle.


----------



## chinmie

has anyone tried this app? 
https://www.xda-developers.com/make-your-headphones-sound-better-automatic-eq-wavelet/amp/

it has an AutoEQ feature to make the curve closer to harman target curve, and supports quite a bunch of selections in its library, even some cheap chifis and TWSs. 

i only installed it last night, so i only have tested it with my Gbuds and WHXM3 headphone. 
from those two, i really like the sound. it makes both of them really airy and less bloated. thr GBuds is airy just as it is, but this app still manages to make the mids clearer. 

next I'm gonna test it with my wired ones that's listed there


----------



## bronco1015

chinmie said:


> has anyone tried this app?
> https://www.xda-developers.com/make-your-headphones-sound-better-automatic-eq-wavelet/amp/
> 
> it has an AutoEQ feature to make the curve closer to harman target curve, and supports quite a bunch of selections in its library, even some cheap chifis and TWSs.
> ...


That is awesome! My first thought when i saw your post was, ugh, it's probably gonna need root. Glad it doesn't as i have no need/desire to root either of my phones. heres hoping it works with Amazon music.
Thanks for sharing.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Hola folks,

I'm posting here for a friend of mine. If you look at my bio, it's apparent that I know nothing about these wireless iems. 
My friend was asking me questions about these things coz I'm a headphone nut and constantly talk about my rig at work lol.

He wants to purchase the new Senns. I told him to hold off and let me find out what some of the competition offers in terms of SQ. Maybe something a little cheaper but can go toe to toe in terms of sound. 

I'm asking the pros here for some advice so I can offer him some options. He's willing to spend on the Senns so his budget is flexible. Thanks in advance for all of your suggestions!

Cheers!


----------



## Bhelpoori

chinmie said:


> has anyone tried this app?
> https://www.xda-developers.com/make-your-headphones-sound-better-automatic-eq-wavelet/amp/
> 
> it has an AutoEQ feature to make the curve closer to harman target curve, and supports quite a bunch of selections in its library, even some cheap chifis and TWSs.
> ...


Interesting and thanks for the link. I will take a look.

I've been using Sonarworks SoundID (https://www.sonarworks.com/soundid) which is the successor to TrueFi but seems to be better to my ears with the Airpods Pro (and other supported headphones rather than TWS) and it works very well with the Airpods Pro. Unfortunately the number of TWS supported is vanishingly small and I hit lucky with the Airpods Pro, and playback only works on computer properly as the TrueFi mobile app equivalent doesn't exist (yet??). I also have a license from TrueFi otherwise it would be expensive.


----------



## cresny

Mouseman said:


> I don't understand why Sony can't get their act together. They could make a killer set, but they always seem to leave a feature off or hobble them somehow.


Like many others here, I'm guessing LDAC on TWS must be too much of a battery drain.  They implemented DSEE HX as an alternative for the WF-1000XM3 and that is a battery drain as it is (though I still like it better than EQ-ing) but I doubt they would have bothered with that if LDAC could have worked. Anyway, I do think their act is very much together and they have raised the bar for TWS considerably.


----------



## eiraku (May 19, 2020)

chinmie said:


> has anyone tried this app?
> https://www.xda-developers.com/make-your-headphones-sound-better-automatic-eq-wavelet/amp/
> 
> it has an AutoEQ feature to make the curve closer to harman target curve, and supports quite a bunch of selections in its library, even some cheap chifis and TWSs.
> ...



If this is capable of saving (and loading) EQ Presets per Headphone, colour me interested. Even better if it can autoload the presets on its own.

With per-unit presets than it would indeed be the perfect add-in for TWS sets lacking native EQ (the Edifier NB and Nuarls come to mind).


----------



## bedlamite (May 19, 2020)

Sony's full-sized XM3s have LDAC but they're a muddy mess with little treble sparkle. To a certain extent, an audio codec isn't any indicator of how good BT gear will sound, it's how the drivers are tuned.


----------



## chinmie

eiraku said:


> If this is capable of saving (and loading) EQ Presets per Headphone, colour me interested. Even better if it can autoload the presets on its own.
> 
> With per-unit presets than it would indeed be the perfect add-in for TWS sets lacking native EQ (the Edifier NB and Nuarls come to mind).



agree 100 percent. it already have automatic switching for the autoEQ when connected to different TWS, if they implement multiple custom EQ settings, i would gladly pay the full price. i guess we could try suggesting it to the developer


----------



## hifi80sman

Has anyone tried the WF-SP800N yet?  I can grab a pair today, so wondering if it's worth it.


----------



## FadeOne

Any suggestions for a pair that has a very wide soundstage and great imaging? Call quality is not important


----------



## Bhelpoori

chinmie said:


> agree 100 percent. it already have automatic switching for the autoEQ when connected to different TWS, if they implement multiple custom EQ settings, i would gladly pay the full price. i guess we could try suggesting it to the developer


As an FYI: I just tried this on my Test Android Device which is only Android 8 (Oreo) and found that it only works on Android 9 (Pie) or above.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

HeadphoneAddict said:


> Well I got my FIIL T1X And I’m not sure I can keep them. They sound great for $50, playing above their price point.
> 
> HOWEVER, it took me 15 MINUTES to get my ear canal pressure equalized with the pressure behind the driver, so that they would seal well and still play freely without the drivers binding up.
> 
> ...





tgx78 said:


> Have you tried tip rolling it? I found some genetic silicone tips that work well without causing pressure build up.





voicemaster said:


> Maybe try a foam tips?



I'm not quite sure why, but these tips are working better for me, allowing a seal without binding up the T1X drivers more often than not.
Luakesa Silicone Replacement Ear Tips Earbuds Eargels for Mpow, Senso, Zeus, Otium, Hussar, Letscom Bluetooth Earphones, 6 Pairs

Sometimes I still have to adjust them to get the pressure to equalize - the right is still more finicky than the left. The fit on the nozzle is pretty tight and I had to work them on slowly while twisting, so I'm not worried about them falling off and getting stuck in my ears.






The sound is pretty good, better out of the box than the Jabra 75t, and while I miss the transparency or hear-thru mode, the ear hooks that help keep them inside the ears allow for a looser fit without falling out, for when you need them to leak sound and let you hear things around you.


----------



## Francesco Montanari

chinmie said:


> agree 100 percent. it already have automatic switching for the autoEQ when connected to different TWS, if they implement multiple custom EQ settings, i would gladly pay the full price. i guess we could try suggesting it to the developer


My favourite feature of OnePlus oxygen Os


----------



## clerkpalmer

hifi80sman said:


> Has anyone tried the WF-SP800N yet?  I can grab a pair today, so wondering if it's worth it.


Subscribed.  I too and wondering.  They are down the street at Target waiting for me ... but I'm trying to fight the urge of another side grade.  Could these improve upon MTW2?  My rational mind says no other than perhaps fit.


----------



## bronco1015

Guidostrunk said:


> Hola folks,
> 
> I'm posting here for a friend of mine. If you look at my bio, it's apparent that I know nothing about these wireless iems.
> My friend was asking me questions about these things coz I'm a headphone nut and constantly talk about my rig at work lol.
> ...


Reading posts in real time, so not sure what replies you might have already. But nuarl N6 Pro if it's just SQ for nearly half the cost. The Senns are really good though. Depending on what gear they might have or prefer, maybe the Sonys, but fit is mor difficult with those. Lypertek Tevi, Anker l2P, But in all, for the transparency mode, ANC and SQ the Senns are a good purchase. Better than the 1st gen were. If we still had the 1st gen MTW only, i'd be adding caveats like, case battery drains. Fit is subjective. etc. The 2nd gen are well worth it this time around imo.


----------



## hifi80sman

clerkpalmer said:


> Subscribed.  I too and wondering.  They are down the street at Target waiting for me ... but I'm trying to fight the urge of another side grade.  Could these improve upon MTW2?  My rational mind says no other than perhaps fit.


My main issue with the XM3 was the fit.  This has a similar form factor, the same codecs, and possibly the same driver.  ANC is not as important to me as solid audio quality, so personally, this would be a better fitting side-grade of the XM3 with maybe an improved mic for calls.  I also have the WH-H910N, which is its mid-range cousin and technically a step under the XM4 (when it comes out), but it has better sound and a better mic than the over-ear XM3.

The MTW v1 was OK for me.  I sold those l and actually enjoy the sound of the XM3 more, in addition to its more solid build/feel.  Plus, the battery drain issue was driving me crazy and its clear Sennheiser no longer has, or perhaps never had, any intention of fixing it.


----------



## clerkpalmer

hifi80sman said:


> My main issue with the XM3 was the fit.  This has a similar form factor, the same codecs, and possibly the same driver.  ANC is not as important to me as solid audio quality, so personally, this would be a better fitting side-grade of the XM3 with maybe an improved mic for calls.  I also have the WH-H910N, which is its mid-range cousin and technically a step under the XM4 (when it comes out), but it has better sound and a better mic than the over-ear XM3.
> 
> The MTW v1 was OK for me.  I sold those l and actually enjoy the sound of the XM3 more, in addition to its more solid build/feel.  Plus, the battery drain issue was driving me crazy and its clear Sennheiser no longer has, or perhaps never had, any intention of fixing it.



Hmm. My MTW2 does not have the battery drain issue - so it does appear to have been addressed.  Perhaps it was a hardware issue?  Not sure.  I do think it's possible the SP800s sound as good as the Senns and quite possibly with better fit and better ANC (the Senn ANC is pretty weak sauce).  I feel like the outcome is certain so why am i depriving myself?  The nuraloops are intriguing for the same price but the Reddit forums are full of so-so reviews and fit problems.  I believe the drivers are 100% the same.


----------



## webvan (May 19, 2020)

Didn't realize the WF-SP800N would be out already in the US, in Europe it's planned for mid-July !!!
This has probably already been posted but with the lack of notifications since the forum revamp I miss a lot of posts now...
He says ANC isn't as good, that's a letdown if confirmed. Now maybe they have better passive isolation too so that would make the ANC less impressive when it kicks in.
They still stick out a lot


----------



## hifi80sman (May 19, 2020)

clerkpalmer said:


> Hmm. My MTW2 does not have the battery drain issue - so it does appear to have been addressed.  Perhaps it was a hardware issue?  Not sure.  I do think it's possible the SP800s sound as good as the Senns and quite possibly with better fit and better ANC (the Senn ANC is pretty weak sauce).  I feel like the outcome is certain so why am i depriving myself?  The nuraloops are intriguing for the same price but the Reddit forums are full of so-so reviews and fit problems.  I believe the drivers are 100% the same.


Even though I didn't have any issues with moisture, it's also nice that the WF-SP800N are IP55.

I feel like there are other things you need at Target, so why not?  Is it calling you?  Yes, yes it is.


----------



## bronco1015

eiraku said:


> If this is capable of saving (and loading) EQ Presets per Headphone, colour me interested. Even better if it can autoload the presets on its own.
> 
> With per-unit presets than it would indeed be the perfect add-in for TWS sets lacking native EQ (the Edifier NB and Nuarls come to mind).


I had similar thoughts. Didn't see anywhere to save presets unfortunately. but it breathed new life into my already awesome Anbes359. Also my QC35 as well. The only other True wireless iem i tried with it were the backbeat pro 5100. oNly tried a couple presets didn't mess with the eq on that one.
I did notice on some of the presets i played around with, there was a slight but obvious crackling. Didn't notice it with all the presets, and didn't notice it with the 9 band eq either.


----------



## bronco1015

hifi80sman said:


> My main issue with the XM3 was the fit.  This has a similar form factor, the same codecs, and possibly the same driver.  ANC is not as important to me as solid audio quality, so personally, this would be a better fitting side-grade of the XM3 with maybe an improved mic for calls.  I also have the WH-H910N, which is its mid-range cousin and technically a step under the XM4 (when it comes out), but it has better sound and a better mic than the over-ear XM3.
> 
> The MTW v1 was OK for me.  I sold those l and actually enjoy the sound of the XM3 more, in addition to its more solid build/feel.  Plus, the battery drain issue was driving me crazy and its clear Sennheiser no longer has, or perhaps never had, any intention of fixing it.


No battery drain on MTW2. I've let it sit for 2 weeks at most since i've had them, and after using them for 5 mins the battery readout was the same as it was when i powered them on and was still showing battery 100%


----------



## Darkestred (May 19, 2020)

thrgk said:


> Does the L2p have better call quality compared to N6 in your opinion?



Ok.  I understand this probably isnt very scientific but here we go.   I tested both N6 and L2P in my dining room which is an open room with echo and then i went close to a TV speaker while it was airing the news or whatever was on.  Smack-dab against the mesh grill.  The other end a lav mic was placed near the speaker grill.  The phone was not set on speaker phone and was being recorded to where i listened to the audio on headphones.

The L2P has a warm sound profile to it (no surprise). Voices have a smooth and controlled tone but also have grain. The L2P does a good job of eliminating background noises and echo's from the accoustics in the dining room and did a good job with all but eliminating the TV noise. I cannot confirm how this would translate into a busy street or indoor social setting but one anecdotl point of interest a few months back while on a busy street in NYC - the person on the other end had no issues hearing me nor asked where i was. At one point they commented if i was taking a shower.

The N6 sounded cleaner or more coherent but was untamed; i could hear echo from the dining room while speaking and it picked up background noise much easier(gain). While next to the TV, the TVs audible level was nearly on-par with myself speaking.

Dunno if that helps anyone, at all but there you have it.


----------



## clerkpalmer

hifi80sman said:


> Even though I didn't have any issues with moisture, it's also nice that the WF-SP800N are IP55.
> 
> I feel like there are other things you need at Target, so why not?  Is it calling you?  Yes, yes it is.


And they have them in lovely white too.


----------



## eiraku (May 19, 2020)

Darkestred said:


> Ok.  I understand this probably isnt very scientific but here we go.   I tested both N6 and L2P in my dining room which is an open room with echo and then i went close to a TV speaker while it was airing the news or whatever was on.  Smack-dab against the mesh grill.  The other end a lav mic was placed near the speaker grill.  The phone was not set on speaker phone and was being recorded to where i listened to the audio on headphones.
> 
> The L2P has a warm sound profile to it (no surprise). Voices have a smooth and controlled tone but also have grain. The L2P does a good job of eliminating background noises and echo's from the accoustics in the dining room and did a good job with all but eliminating the TV noise. I cannot confirm how this would translate into a busy street or indoor social setting but one anecdotl point of interest a few months back while on a busy street in NYC - the person on the other end had no issues hearing me nor asked where i was. At one point they commented if i was taking a shower.
> 
> ...



I can attest to this, at least in regards to the L2P. They cancel noise and focus on your voice pretty well when things aren't too chaotic (and when you're aiming the beamforming mic where it should be, towards the mouth).

When things do get "hot", though (i.e. outside under more "challenging" conditions), they often feel... overzealous... in terms of noise suppression and will often end up muffling even your voice along with the ambient noise.

Again, makes me wonder if SC has access to and control of the actual degree of noise suppression that happens inside that particular Qualcomm chip (and simply decided to turn it up to eleven).


----------



## assassin10000 (May 19, 2020)

Finally found some tips that fit similar to the Misodiko and Ikko tips, that actually seem to fit my ears.






They are foam tips for the APP's. I ordered a pair based on that top picture.

The oval center pops right out. The bore is 5.0mm I.D. and the lip is 4.5mm I.D.





They fit the buds+ and case with no issues. Fit on the earpieces is good and the 'skirt' area is about 2mm deep and overlaps nicely. They're not as tight fitting as the Misodiko but they're not loose either.


Edit: buyer be aware, some AE sellers only sell them individually.


----------



## bedlamite

I know a friend who can get staff pricing on a pair of Jabra Elite 75ts (almost 40% off). Worth it a buy or should I go straight for the Nuarl Pros or Anker L2Ps? I already have the Sony WFs and a bunch of other TWs so I'm going for pure sound quality. I understand the 75t is bass-heavy but you can EQ them? Can they get on the level of the N6 Pros?


----------



## assassin10000

bedlamite said:


> I know a friend who can get staff pricing on a pair of Jabra Elite 75ts (almost 40% off). Worth it a buy or should I go straight for the Nuarl Pros or Anker L2Ps? I already have the Sony WFs and a bunch of other TWs so I'm going for pure sound quality. I understand the 75t is bass-heavy but you can EQ them? Can they get on the level of the N6 Pros?



I liked my XM3's w/EQ more than I did my L2P's. I like a signature thats a bit more balanced than the 'V' of the L2P, which has a lot of bass. It is quality, just lots of it.

I haven't heard the N6 Pro's, but given reports I probably would go with those if you are not a basshead.


I got the buds+ not too long ago and with a slight EQ to tone down their Harman curve I'm pretty happy with them.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Thank you for the reply my friend! You've been the only one that has responded. Lol. 





bronco1015 said:


> Reading posts in real time, so not sure what replies you might have already. But nuarl N6 Pro if it's just SQ for nearly half the cost. The Senns are really good though. Depending on what gear they might have or prefer, maybe the Sonys, but fit is mor difficult with those. Lypertek Tevi, Anker l2P, But in all, for the transparency mode, ANC and SQ the Senns are a good purchase. Better than the 1st gen were. If we still had the 1st gen MTW only, i'd be adding caveats like, case battery drains. Fit is subjective. etc. The 2nd gen are well worth it this time around imo.


----------



## Guidostrunk

If anyone has a nuarl N6 Pro that they're looking to part with please PM me. Thank you!


----------



## VZWDJ

I have a Mifo 07 I am looking to move...PM me if interested...Thanks


----------



## martiniCZ (May 20, 2020)

Bobbetybob said:


> Thanks for the info and links, let me know how you get on with the foams I'm after a pair of those eventually as well.


Sorry for the late reply, a noname clone of Misidiko TWS Pro foam eartips (S and M size) will fit in the Truedot case, but sometimes you need to push them a little. The material is very good and the insulation is excellent. But keep in mind that the size S (yellow) corresponds more to sizes L of stock silicone eartips. I like these foams, Truedot sounds a little "softer" (but no muddy) and more comfortable with them. At a price of less than $ 2/pair I can definitely recommend them.


----------



## bronco1015

Guidostrunk said:


> Thank you for the reply my friend! You've been the only one that has responded. Lol.


no problem. Hope they find something they like using.


----------



## maxemillian

martiniCZ said:


> Sorry for the late reply, a noname clone of Misidiko TWS Pro foam eartips (S and M size) will fit in the Truedot case, but sometimes you need to push them a little. The material is very good and the insulation is excellent. But keep in mind that the size S (yellow) corresponds more to sizes L of stock silicone eartips. I like these foams, Truedot sounds a little "softer" (but no muddy) and more comfortable with them. At a price of less than $ 2/pair I can definitely recommend them.


The truedots appear similar in shape to the GT1 Plus. I wonder if the tips will also work with them. Do you have a link to the tips? 

Alternatively, does anyone know of any foam tips that will fit on the GT1 Plus?

Many thanks!


----------



## thimantha (May 20, 2020)

GameSky has reviewed the MPOW ANC earbuds. ANC seems to be decent for the price and there's no SQ difference between ANC on and off. Uses a master/slave setup though which means you can only independently use the right earbud. Has volume controls.


----------



## DynamicEars

maxemillian said:


> The truedots appear similar in shape to the GT1 Plus. I wonder if the tips will also work with them. Do you have a link to the tips?
> 
> Alternatively, does anyone know of any foam tips that will fit on the GT1 Plus?
> 
> Many thanks!



The misodiko copy works good for GT1 plus just the bass become mid bass focus, so im using default eartips but with foam from symbio W inside the eartips


----------



## martiniCZ (May 20, 2020)

maxemillian said:


> The truedots appear similar in shape to the GT1 Plus. I wonder if the tips will also work with them. Do you have a link to the tips?


I bought my here https://www.aliexpress.com/item/400...b16fbb239264ef1a-1589980715516-07878-VnYZvQVf


----------



## go0gle

Voice quality seems decent on those.

13.6 mm driver ..

https://www.theverge.com/21264105/m...w-wireless-design-features-price-battery-life

$200 is way too much tho


----------



## hifi80sman

I ended up grabbing the SP800N last night at Target.  So far, so good.  It's actually what I hoped the XM3 would be.  Stable fit, touch controls are a bit more responsive, mids are more present, better clarity in the highs, water resistance (IP55), and of course XTRA BASS (you can EQ it down)!  I sold my XM3 and can't A/B, but ANC seems just as good.  The case is basic but well made, although without the premium accents and feel of the XM3.

Overall, IMHO, this is an upgrade to the XM3.  The sound is big, bold, and imaging is very good.  Testing over AAC and iPhone.

Pending mic test.


----------



## thrgk

Darkestred said:


> Ok.  I understand this probably isnt very scientific but here we go.   I tested both N6 and L2P in my dining room which is an open room with echo and then i went close to a TV speaker while it was airing the news or whatever was on.  Smack-dab against the mesh grill.  The other end a lav mic was placed near the speaker grill.  The phone was not set on speaker phone and was being recorded to where i listened to the audio on headphones.
> 
> The L2P has a warm sound profile to it (no surprise). Voices have a smooth and controlled tone but also have grain. The L2P does a good job of eliminating background noises and echo's from the accoustics in the dining room and did a good job with all but eliminating the TV noise. I cannot confirm how this would translate into a busy street or indoor social setting but one anecdotl point of interest a few months back while on a busy street in NYC - the person on the other end had no issues hearing me nor asked where i was. At one point they commented if i was taking a shower.
> 
> ...



Thank you, very helpful


----------



## d3myz

FYLegend said:


> I use Dynamic. I find that all EQ settings have been tweaked in the latest update but don't have any measurements. The new tuning works a bit better with SBC because the highs aren't as brash, but the rattling distortion is still noticeable with certain sounds (hi-hats and orchestral strings). It's a shame because I've been hoping to find a TWS with USB-C, ambient sound and independent bud usage that works well on both PC and mobile.
> 
> 
> Any issue with hiss imbalance? I had this issue on the 65t and people still reported it on the 75t, not sure if it was a matter of defective units or people not noticing the issue. The only thing that kept me from these was no Qi charging and no independent bud use. Jabra promised these in future releases but have since confirmed the single bud use firmware update has been cancelled - no news about the Qi charging case either. It's also perplexing they use a Qualcomm SoC but don't implement AptX. Curious how they sound with SBC on Windows 10. I recall the 65t were very good with SBC and nearly the same quality as AAC on my phone.


I haven't noticed any hiss, but after querying siri there have been certain times where there has been an imbalance. I just pop them in the case and power them back on and it resolves itself, but it doesn't happen often. The lack of Qi and being able to use the left earbud independently is a def. disadvantage, but overall There are very few TWS' on the market that compete with the 75t in call quality, app functionality, hear through, sound quality, build quality, fit, battery life, case size, etc. They really are IMO one of the best offerings on the market at the price point. And if you can get them refurbished for $99 it's an absolute no brainer. also the are IPX 55 and they have a two year water and dust warranty. Pretty awesome.


----------



## d3myz

hifi80sman said:


> I ended up grabbing the SP800N last night at Target.  So far, so good.  It's actually what I hoped the XM3 would be.  Stable fit, touch controls are a bit more responsive, mids are more present, better clarity in the highs, water resistance (IP55), and of course XTRA BASS (you can EQ it down)!  I sold my XM3 and can't A/B, but ANC seems just as good.  The case is basic but well made, although without the premium accents and feel of the XM3.
> 
> Overall, IMHO, this is an upgrade to the XM3.  The sound is big, bold, and imaging is very good.  Testing over AAC and iPhone.
> 
> Pending mic test.


Do these also have ambient mode?


----------



## d3myz

HeadphoneAddict said:


> Seems like a nice earbud, but based on Amazon reviews I had decided to pass due to reliability issues. Not sure $100 for a refurb with 180 day warranty is worth it.


You can get an extended warranty through Square Trade on refurbs. for $20-30.


----------



## hifi80sman

d3myz said:


> Do these also have ambient mode?


Yep.


----------



## clerkpalmer

hifi80sman said:


> I ended up grabbing the SP800N last night at Target.  So far, so good.  It's actually what I hoped the XM3 would be.  Stable fit, touch controls are a bit more responsive, mids are more present, better clarity in the highs, water resistance (IP55), and of course XTRA BASS (you can EQ it down)!  I sold my XM3 and can't A/B, but ANC seems just as good.  The case is basic but well made, although without the premium accents and feel of the XM3.
> 
> Overall, IMHO, this is an upgrade to the XM3.  The sound is big, bold, and imaging is very good.  Testing over AAC and iPhone.
> 
> Pending mic test.


It's strange that these are on the shelves at Target but not yet available from BB or Amazon.  In any event, any further comparison on the SQ compared to some of the big players like M&D and Senn?  I really want to grab these but can't shake this feeling they'll be discounted fairly quickly.


----------



## hifi80sman

clerkpalmer said:


> It's strange that these are on the shelves at Target but not yet available from BB or Amazon.  In any event, any further comparison on the SQ compared to some of the big players like M&D and Senn?  I really want to grab these but can't shake this feeling they'll be discounted fairly quickly.


You're probably right.  Sony's typical discount structure will likely be: blah sale at $179, good sale at $149, and special sale at $129.  That being said, you still have 30 days return/rebuy if it does go on sale.

For me, I'm enjoying these, so retail at this level is acceptable.  I think they sound great out of the box, even though they have strong bass (which some people may probably need to lower thru the App).


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

hifi80sman said:


> I ended up grabbing the SP800N last night at Target.  So far, so good.  It's actually what I hoped the XM3 would be.  Stable fit, touch controls are a bit more responsive, mids are more present, better clarity in the highs, water resistance (IP55), and of course XTRA BASS (you can EQ it down)!  I sold my XM3 and can't A/B, but ANC seems just as good.  The case is basic but well made, although without the premium accents and feel of the XM3.
> 
> Overall, IMHO, this is an upgrade to the XM3.  The sound is big, bold, and imaging is very good.  Testing over AAC and iPhone.
> 
> Pending mic test.



How is the transparency/hear-thru mode?
How bad is it without EQ down the bass?  

I find that the Jabra 75t hear-thru is louder than the MTW, so more useful, if you can ignore the hiss when it's on. But Jabras bass must be EQ down except at the lowest volumes.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict (May 20, 2020)

d3myz said:


> I haven't noticed any hiss, but after querying siri there have been certain times where there has been an imbalance. I just pop them in the case and power them back on and it resolves itself, but it doesn't happen often. The lack of Qi and being able to use the left earbud independently is a def. disadvantage, but overall There are very few TWS' on the market that compete with the 75t in call quality, app functionality, hear through, sound quality, build quality, fit, battery life, case size, etc. They really are IMO one of the best offerings on the market at the price point. And if you can get them refurbished for $99 it's an absolute no brainer. also the are IPX 55 and they have a two year water and dust warranty. Pretty awesome.



2-yr water/dust warranty IF you remember to register them thru the app.

My problem is that I tried a double-press on the right for the first time to try Siri, and I get a beep confirmation that normally comes before Siri speaks, but Siri never comes up to say, "I'm listening". But "Hey Siri" still works, and after a moderate delay she says "I'm listening". I have voice guidance turned on in the app (it defaulted to that). With a double-press the screen blinks out for a sec and returns to what I was doing, rather than loading Siri.

EDIT - So, after trying to get Siri to work on there 75t I tried to play music and the left earbud is muted. I had to put them back in the case and then put them in my ears to re-activate the left earbud.


----------



## hifi80sman

HeadphoneAddict said:


> How is the transparency/hear-thru mode?
> How bad is it without EQ down the bass?
> 
> I find that the Jabra 75t hear-thru is louder than the MTW, so more useful, if you can ignore the hiss when it's on. But Jabras bass must be EQ down except at the lowest volumes.


Transparency/hear-thru is OK out of the box, but it's not highly amplified and noise is a little dampened vs. natural hearing.  After checking the "Focus on Voice" box in the App, it improves the ambient function overall to be close to natural.

If you EQ down the "Clear Bass" within the App, it still sounds good.  Anything below -3 on the bass slider sounds a little thin for my tastes, but the bass quality and texture is still retained when lowering it.


----------



## TheLionelHutz

chinmie said:


> has anyone tried this app?
> https://www.xda-developers.com/make-your-headphones-sound-better-automatic-eq-wavelet/amp/
> 
> it has an AutoEQ feature to make the curve closer to harman target curve, and supports quite a bunch of selections in its library, even some cheap chifis and TWSs.
> ...


Holy smokes, that's awesome! Better sound results than the native EQ in my Galaxy S20. And it works with lower Q services like Amazon (their app's EQ is a gawdawful embarrassment) and SiriusXM (which I often can't stand to listen to from the compression). Thanks!


----------



## Ocelitgol

eiraku said:


> If this is capable of saving (and loading) EQ Presets per Headphone, colour me interested. Even better if it can autoload the presets on its own.
> 
> With per-unit presets than it would indeed be the perfect add-in for TWS sets lacking native EQ (the Edifier NB and Nuarls come to mind).





chinmie said:


> agree 100 percent. it already have automatic switching for the autoEQ when connected to different TWS, if they implement multiple custom EQ settings, i would gladly pay the full price. i guess we could try suggesting it to the developer



I can confirm it auto switch profile for me on Samsung Note 9 with Gbuds+ and Sony WF-1000XM3 and Sony WH-1000XM3 and my car audio. I'm not sure if it does the same thing to wired because BT devices have names. Free version auto switch and I don't see i'll need the additional features beside the AutoEQ and manual EQ; I will, however, pay to support the development.


----------



## RemoGaggi

DynamicEars said:


> Really looking forward about your KZ Z1 impressions, especially vs GT1 plus and T1x mate


I just received the GT1 Plus today from Ebay (took exactly 16 days from China to California).  I'm still waiting for the KZ Z1 to get here and  then I can compare 1TX vs. GT1 Plus vs. KZ Z1.  My initial impression of the GT1 Plus wasn't that great.  They didn't want to pair with each other, but that was resolved with resetting them.  They also felt very cheap and light in my hands.  Also, they are annoying because the touch button is SO sensitive.  But, my initial sound impressions after changing the ear tips to large and just listening to them for 5 minutes paired with my laptop are that the GT1 Plus are AWESOME.  So clean, natural and balanced sound.  That's my first 5 minute impression.  I will have time to compare with my T1x later (and Tranya B530).  I hope the KZ's arrive soon (supposedly they are in New York somewhere, just not in California yet).  Stay tuned.


----------



## Ocelitgol

Ocelitgol said:


> I can confirm it auto switch profile for me on Samsung Note 9 with Gbuds+ and Sony WF-1000XM3 and Sony WH-1000XM3 and my car audio. I'm not sure if it does the same thing to wired because BT devices have names. Free version auto switch and I don't see i'll need the additional features beside the AutoEQ and manual EQ; I will, however, pay to support the development.


I'm gonna contradict what I've said before about AutoEQ. It does remove the shoutiness of Buds+, though I hope the bass would remain untouched, but this AutoEQ profile is easier to listen to. Very nice


----------



## voicemaster

chinmie said:


> has anyone tried this app?
> https://www.xda-developers.com/make-your-headphones-sound-better-automatic-eq-wavelet/amp/
> 
> it has an AutoEQ feature to make the curve closer to harman target curve, and supports quite a bunch of selections in its library, even some cheap chifis and TWSs.
> ...


Wow, just tried it with both Gbud and Gbud+. Vast improvement on the Gbud, the difference can be heard easily than the Gbuds+. The sound is fuller, bass has better impact and body, mid is more forward and a little bit thicker, treble is smoother. The most noticeable improvement is the bass and mid imho. 
They have graphic EQ, but only 9 band which is quite good, but the AutoEQ I believe they use a more detailed like 32 band EQ to tune the sound. If you have Gbud, this EQ software is a must have imho.


----------



## maxemillian

martiniCZ said:


> I bought my here https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000482792147.html?af=240682&utm_campaign=240682&aff_platform=aaf&utm_medium=cpa&afref=https://www.head-fi.org/threads/going-fully-wireless-iems-too-soon-or-are-we-there-yet.861024/page-1439&dp=164acc07f39133b3d888e980f7d7f52a&spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.61924c4dNHwoMB&cv=47843&mall_affr=pr3&sk=VnYZvQVf&aff_trace_key=b508fe7b00074a26b16fbb239264ef1a-1589980715516-07878-VnYZvQVf&terminal_id=292956af5a8a48dfbc574e6b669e258e&tmLog=new_Detail&utm_source=admitad&utm_content=47843&aff_request_id=b508fe7b00074a26b16fbb239264ef1a-1589980715516-07878-VnYZvQVf


Okay I'll try these, thanks!


----------



## maxemillian

DynamicEars said:


> The misodiko copy works good for GT1 plus just the bass become mid bass focus, so im using default eartips but with foam from symbio W inside the eartips


Sounds interesting; will try.


----------



## DynamicEars

RemoGaggi said:


> I just received the GT1 Plus today from Ebay (took exactly 16 days from China to California).  I'm still waiting for the KZ Z1 to get here and  then I can compare 1TX vs. GT1 Plus vs. KZ Z1.  My initial impression of the GT1 Plus wasn't that great.  They didn't want to pair with each other, but that was resolved with resetting them.  They also felt very cheap and light in my hands.  Also, they are annoying because the touch button is SO sensitive.  But, my initial sound impressions after changing the ear tips to large and just listening to them for 5 minutes paired with my laptop are that the GT1 Plus are AWESOME.  So clean, natural and balanced sound.  That's my first 5 minute impression.  I will have time to compare with my T1x later (and Tranya B530).  I hope the KZ's arrive soon (supposedly they are in New York somewhere, just not in California yet).  Stay tuned.



Yeah i like the balanced sound of them, clean natural yet detailed, with airy and good soundstage. Just the volume is too low for my liking and bass impact that because of driver limitation lile other TWS.

Sound quality aside, the build quality is average good, nothing special. 

Value wise, they are crazy.

Oops Ive ordered Z1 too, but still eagerly waiting for your impressions of course.
Thanks


----------



## tma6

hifi80sman said:


> I ended up grabbing the SP800N last night at Target.  So far, so good.  It's actually what I hoped the XM3 would be.  Stable fit, touch controls are a bit more responsive, mids are more present, better clarity in the highs, water resistance (IP55), and of course XTRA BASS (you can EQ it down)!  I sold my XM3 and can't A/B, but ANC seems just as good.  The case is basic but well made, although without the premium accents and feel of the XM3.
> 
> Overall, IMHO, this is an upgrade to the XM3.  The sound is big, bold, and imaging is very good.  Testing over AAC and iPhone.
> 
> Pending mic test.



very interesting, hows that mic? better than xm3?


----------



## Ocelitgol

voicemaster said:


> Wow, just tried it with both Gbud and Gbud+. Vast improvement on the Gbud, the difference can be heard easily than the Gbuds+. The sound is fuller, bass has better impact and body, mid is more forward and a little bit thicker, treble is smoother. The most noticeable improvement is the bass and mid imho.
> They have graphic EQ, but only 9 band which is quite good, but the AutoEQ I believe they use a more detailed like 32 band EQ to tune the sound. If you have Gbud, this EQ software is a must have imho.


Agreed. It sounds great on Gbuds+, less shouty. But, it's not as good on Sony WH-1000XM3 as it makes it a lot more forward and lose the warmth too much


----------



## chinmie

Ocelitgol said:


> Agreed. It sounds great on Gbuds+, less shouty. But, it's not as good on Sony WH-1000XM3 as it makes it a lot more forward and lose the warmth too much



with the Gbud and Gbud+ the change is smaller because they're already tuned close to the harman target, so that autoEq just add a bit of corrections. 

with the WHXM3 and the WFXM3 however, the changes are bigger because the bassier and warmer original Sony tuning. 

all of them sound similar after autoEQ, with their driver capabilities as the differing factor to their sound. i myself prefer the WHXM3 and WFXM3 sound with that autoEQ even more than the Gbuds, because they seem to have a more technically capable drivers than the Gbuds. 

for example, i also like the Blon BL03 driver with the AutoEQ, but i don't like the **** with this as it seems to expose it's less than stellar piezo driver capability. 

with the BL03 original sound i couldn't use it for long because the midbass is too much. now i might pair this to my BT20S for daily use. 

i just remembered i gave my QCY T5 to my son, i'll borrow and test it later with this app to see how it goes


----------



## chinmie

hifi80sman said:


> Transparency/hear-thru is OK out of the box, but it's not highly amplified and noise is a little dampened vs. natural hearing.  After checking the "Focus on Voice" box in the App, it improves the ambient function overall to be close to natural.
> 
> If you EQ down the "Clear Bass" within the App, it still sounds good.  Anything below -3 on the bass slider sounds a little thin for my tastes, but the bass quality and texture is still retained when lowering it.



your setting with the SP800N seems similar to what my setting for the WFXM3. for ambient mode i use higher sound input to about 18, which to my ears seems about the same as the real ambient sound level if i remove the WFXM3 from my ears. after that i use the "focus on voice" to filter the trebly white noise. 
the EQ i also stops the clear bass at -3. i leave everything else unEQed though, as i like it "as is" already


----------



## DigDub

hifi80sman said:


> I ended up grabbing the SP800N last night at Target.  So far, so good.  It's actually what I hoped the XM3 would be.  Stable fit, touch controls are a bit more responsive, mids are more present, better clarity in the highs, water resistance (IP55), and of course XTRA BASS (you can EQ it down)!  I sold my XM3 and can't A/B, but ANC seems just as good.  The case is basic but well made, although without the premium accents and feel of the XM3.
> 
> Overall, IMHO, this is an upgrade to the XM3.  The sound is big, bold, and imaging is very good.  Testing over AAC and iPhone.
> 
> Pending mic test.


Can you try to turn off the ANC, put the buds inside the case, then take them out. Is the ANC turned back on, or does it remember the last state when it was put in the case (turned off)? Thanks.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict (May 21, 2020)

hifi80sman said:


> Transparency/hear-thru is OK out of the box, but it's not highly amplified and noise is a little dampened vs. natural hearing.  After checking the "Focus on Voice" box in the App, it improves the ambient function overall to be close to natural.
> 
> If you EQ down the "Clear Bass" within the App, it still sounds good.  Anything below -3 on the bass slider sounds a little thin for my tastes, but the bass quality and texture is still retained when lowering it.








So, the bass is not as over-done or boomy out of the box as the Jabra 75t for which I need to use the "speech" or "treble boost" EQ with the Jabra 75t App. I don't need to do any EQ with the Sony WF-SP800N yet. However, I am still trying to pick the best tips for me, which are either the Med Large ones that were pre-installed out of the box or the Largest size (it seems like they have 4 sizes, Small, Med Small, Med Large, and Large). Once I figure out the fit I can focus on the sound. I'm still going back and forth to decide which is best and wont fall out without the hooks, but I think that would be the large.

The ear hooks make it harder to get them deep enough into my ears for a seal regardless of tip size, and I took them off. But then I was not sure which one goes on the right or left if I were to put them back on. I get better isolation with the large tips and no hooks, and better ambient leakage without hurting the sound if I use the hooks with a shallower insertion. 

So far the sound is pretty good, either way, and with the loose fit when using the hooks I can hear stuff around me better than with ambient on - but then ANC doesn't help. So, I have to use them without hooks to appreciate all the ambient/ANC modes.

The Sony App is buggier and often disconnects with the WF-SP800N and re-connects. Also, the changes between ambient and ANC is more subtle than with the Air Pods Pro.


----------



## TYATYA

chinmie said:


> has anyone tried this app?
> https://www.xda-developers.com/make-your-headphones-sound-better-automatic-eq-wavelet/amp/
> 
> it has an AutoEQ feature to make the curve closer to harman target curve, and supports quite a bunch of selections in its library, even some cheap chifis and TWSs.
> ...



Auto eq for shure 1200, 1500 both useless!

But, preset eq named "Vocal" is quite suit. Base on it I modify to be eq for my shures, which result is xxxcellenttttt!
I own sp1000 dap and kse1200 by years but never happy with the sound as same as now, even tons of eartip, app, parametric eq... 
I tried.
Seeking for .apk (that app now in xapk form so I can not install on the dap but using my phone as digital transport)


----------



## hifi80sman (May 27, 2020)

tma6 said:


> very interesting, hows that mic? better than xm3?


Yep, it’s better.   I had some comments that there was a bit of an echo when I was in my office, so I moved outside and they reported I sounded loud and clear.  So, it may be prone to a bit of echo depending on your environment, but overall, it’s an improvement over the somewhat muffled XM3.


----------



## Silentism

It's been some time since the Nuarl N6 Pros have released, and I've been interested in these ever since they were announced. I remember reading a few first impressions and people weren't impressed about it. But some more recent reviews I've seen have been really good. I have the nt01ax. Has anyone compared the two? or even compared the n6 pro to others in its price range? I happy with my current nt01ax, but I've been curious about other earbuds in the price range, such as the galaxy bud+.


----------



## RobinFood

Silentism said:


> It's been some time since the Nuarl N6 Pros have released, and I've been interested in these ever since they were announced. I remember reading a few first impressions and people weren't impressed about it. But some more recent reviews I've seen have been really good. I have the nt01ax. Has anyone compared the two? or even compared the n6 pro to others in its price range? I happy with my current nt01ax, but I've been curious about other earbuds in the price range, such as the galaxy bud+.



I also have the NT01AX and have read a few reviews when the N6 Pros came out, wondering if it was worth it to do their trade up and trade my NT01AX for an N6 Pro. I went to try it in the store too, and found that the mids and highs were amazing, even better than the NT01AX.

A review that really struck me though here in Japan was someone who said that they were really better in every way, except for the satisfying bass of the NT01AX, and that they listened to a lot of hip-hop, and really regretted doing the trade up. I ended up keeping my NT01AX, and I am just going to wait for the N6 Pro to go down in price. The Nt01AX I bought lost half its street price in the year I bought it, so I am not in a rush to buy the Pro any time soon, and the trade up price would set me back about 100$, I can probably pick it up for that price in a year and keep the NT01AX, which I feel has an amazing, albeit very different sound.

My only real complaint is that the hissing sound is louder than I would like, but I don't know if that is fixed on the N6 Pro, since you can never hear a hiss in a store. I am wondering though if that hiss isn't a Qualcomm thing though, all of my APTx true wireless buds had that same hiss, and none of my AAC/SBC only buds have it...


----------



## RobinFood

chinmie said:


> with the Gbud and Gbud+ the change is smaller because they're already tuned close to the harman target, so that autoEq just add a bit of corrections.
> 
> with the WHXM3 and the WFXM3 however, the changes are bigger because the bassier and warmer original Sony tuning.
> 
> ...



I finally got around to trying the app with my WF-1000XM3. It's not a huge change but it really makes the sound pop and the imaging seems to sharpen up. I love it, thank you so much.

It seems like it might be possible to use that graph and get a similar thing going on in the headphone app so I can hook it up to my DAP instead of my phone. I don't really like listening to music on my phone, it has some weird behavior sometimes and tends to be very distracting. Of course, it would be even better if Sony added a harman target EQ in their app.

I was surprised when it said that my KZ ZS6 needed more treble though... :O


----------



## rkoforever90

HeadphoneAddict said:


> So, the bass is not as over-done or boomy out of the box as the Jabra 75t for which I need to use the "speech" or "treble boost" EQ with the Jabra 75t App. I don't need to do any EQ with the Sony WF-SP800N yet. However, I am still trying to pick the best tips for me, which are either the Med Large ones that were pre-installed out of the box or the Largest size (it seems like they have 4 sizes, Small, Med Small, Med Large, and Large). Once I figure out the fit I can focus on the sound. I'm still going back and forth to decide which is best and wont fall out without the hooks, but I think that would be the large.
> 
> The ear hooks make it harder to get them deep enough into my ears for a seal regardless of tip size, and I took them off. But then I was not sure which one goes on the right or left if I were to put them back on. I get better isolation with the large tips and no hooks, and better ambient leakage without hurting the sound if I use the hooks with a shallower insertion.
> 
> ...



I just discovered this model today now I'm even more confused as to which TWS to buy for an under 200$ budget.


----------



## TheLionelHutz

PSA: XM3's for $160 shipped in the US.

https://www.theverge.com/good-deals...pad-keyboard-google-nest-wifi-best-buy-amazon


----------



## hifi80sman

HeadphoneAddict said:


> So, the bass is not as over-done or boomy out of the box as the Jabra 75t for which I need to use the "speech" or "treble boost" EQ with the Jabra 75t App. I don't need to do any EQ with the Sony WF-SP800N yet. However, I am still trying to pick the best tips for me, which are either the Med Large ones that were pre-installed out of the box or the Largest size (it seems like they have 4 sizes, Small, Med Small, Med Large, and Large). Once I figure out the fit I can focus on the sound. I'm still going back and forth to decide which is best and wont fall out without the hooks, but I think that would be the large.
> 
> The ear hooks make it harder to get them deep enough into my ears for a seal regardless of tip size, and I took them off. But then I was not sure which one goes on the right or left if I were to put them back on. I get better isolation with the large tips and no hooks, and better ambient leakage without hurting the sound if I use the hooks with a shallower insertion.
> 
> ...


Are you on Android or iOS?  I haven't had any issues with disconnection (App or in general).

I love the texture of the bass out of the box.  It's addicting.

Sorry the fit is a little quirky for you!  Darn this anatomy thing.  I wish we were all 6'4", ripped, and had athletic ability that rivals Achilles (but I'd settle for Brad Pitt).


----------



## BigZ12

hifi80sman said:


> I wish we were all 6'4", ripped, and had athletic ability that rivals Achilles (but I'd settle for Brad Pitt).


Not all I presume? I don't want a 6'4, ripped Achilles woman... that's just scary...


----------



## chinmie

RobinFood said:


> I finally got around to trying the app with my WF-1000XM3. It's not a huge change but it really makes the sound pop and the imaging seems to sharpen up. I love it, thank you so much.
> 
> It seems like it might be possible to use that graph and get a similar thing going on in the headphone app so I can hook it up to my DAP instead of my phone. I don't really like listening to music on my phone, it has some weird behavior sometimes and tends to be very distracting. Of course, it would be even better if Sony added a harman target EQ in their app.
> 
> I was surprised when it said that my KZ ZS6 needed more treble though... :O



the other benefit for using the wavelet app for EQing is that we can use the DSEE HX mode for the XM3 (and also the LDAC mode for WH-XM3 owners)


----------



## Ocelitgol

chinmie said:


> the other benefit for using the wavelet app for EQing is that we can use the DSEE HX mode for the XM3 (and also the LDAC mode for WH-XM3 owners)


Do you actually hear the difference of DSEE HX anyway? But the LDAC with EQ is nice


----------



## chinmie

Ocelitgol said:


> Do you actually hear the difference of DSEE HX anyway? But the LDAC with EQ is nice



not really, especially for the heavy distorted guitar tracks that i usually listen to. switching between DSEE HX on and off, it seems that there's a small difference in overall compression, but it's so small that it might be just subjective and i probably guess wrong in a blind test

it does helps for a peace of mind though


----------



## assassin10000

chinmie said:


> not really, especially for the heavy distorted guitar tracks that i usually listen to. switching between DSEE HX on and off, it seems that there's a small difference in overall compression, but it's so small that it might be just subjective and i probably guess wrong in a blind test
> 
> it does helps for a peace of mind though



I found the Sony app EQ by itself was plenty. It used the same amount of battery as DSEE but let me tailor the sound sig. Really woke them up, with no EQ they sounded lifeless.


----------



## Caipirina

Dang, I have not been paying attention and thought for quite a while the Sony WFSP800N is 'just'  "that new Sony" ... which I had registered as the XB700 ... did NOT expect a upgrade / sidegrade of the the SP700N with the WF1000XM3 's ANC ... now, with that sporty moisture control, these look like a nobrainer for me ... or will I get burnt by Sony one more time (as I still feel a bit about the SP700N, was it 2 summers ago they came out? Lousy ANC? ) 

Does anyone know what all that technobabble on Engadget means? 
"One more thing about the noise cancellation: The WF-SP800N doesn’t have the same QN1e ANC chip as the WF-1000XM3. Sony didn’t go into specifics, only saying that the component that powers the pricier model isn’t inside these. The company was also clear that the WF-SP800N doesn’t support the DSEE HX software on the WF-1000XM3 that upscales MP3 and AAC audio “to near high-resolution sound quality.” However, this new model has Sony’s Extra Bass chops, so there’s an emphasis on deep, rich, low-end tone."

Basically I just want to know: ANC as good / better than xm3 / APP ?   and i guess sound beats Apple easily ... especially some extra dynamic thump for running .. oh, running? Anyone check for runner's thud yet? 

It seems fit is a bit iffy ... like I had on the 700N, i ended up removing the wings ... 

Hope to pick them up in Europe if a) I get there (i have tickets, but who knows .. ) and b) once they become available there ...


----------



## HeadphoneAddict (May 22, 2020)

HeadphoneAddict said:


> So, the bass is not as over-done or boomy out of the box as the Jabra 75t for which I need to use the "speech" or "treble boost" EQ with the Jabra 75t App. I don't need to do any EQ with the Sony WF-SP800N yet. However, I am still trying to pick the best tips for me, which are either the Med Large ones that were pre-installed out of the box or the Largest size (it seems like they have 4 sizes, Small, Med Small, Med Large, and Large). Once I figure out the fit I can focus on the sound. I'm still going back and forth to decide which is best and wont fall out without the hooks, but I think that would be the large.
> 
> The ear hooks make it harder to get them deep enough into my ears for a seal regardless of tip size, and I took them off. But then I was not sure which one goes on the right or left if I were to put them back on. I get better isolation with the large tips and no hooks, and better ambient leakage without hurting the sound if I use the hooks with a shallower insertion.
> 
> ...





hifi80sman said:


> Are you on Android or iOS?  I haven't had any issues with disconnection (App or in general).
> 
> I love the texture of the bass out of the box.  It's addicting.
> 
> Sorry the fit is a little quirky for you!  Darn this anatomy thing.  I wish we were all 6'4", ripped, and had athletic ability that rivals Achilles (but I'd settle for Brad Pitt).



I agree, the WF-SP800N sound quality is very good for sure, but the quirks have me seriously questioning whether to keep them. With my T1X, at least with different tips the driver flex is improved 90% such that for $49 they are worth keeping. But the Sony WF-SP800N failings might override the extra cost, as much as 4x the T1X for a slight improvement in sound and a lot of new features, but 5x more when you add tax and a 2 year extended warranty (Although I'm not sure I want any TWS that doesn't have ambient pass thru now).

The WF-SP800N have all the features that I want such as ANC, Ambient sound pass thru, auto-pause/play when removed/inserted, and good EQ; and some neat feature I have not seen elsewhere, such as automatic location based audio adjustments and the sound enhancer for Tidal based on your ear shape. Tidal on my iPhone sounds very good after the app analyzed pictures of my ears, but I hadn't thought to try Tidal before letting the app set everything up (just went through the setup hitting "next" at every step (declined to share personal info though).

But the fit when using any of the hooks will not allow a tight seal, so I can't benefit from ANC when using the hooks. Without the hooks, then the second from largest tips wont hang onto my ears or seal as tight as needed for the best ANC or retention, and the largest tips will seal and work with ANC but over time they still slowly work loose as my tighter ear canals eventually push out the too large of a tip, and when they are loose the tips start to tickle my ears. The issues resulting from their slipping fit with the largest tips and no hooks is the same issue that I have with my Air Pods Pro.

With the hooks and a poor seal, it doesn't matter that I have ambient mode either, since almost everything leaks in anyway, although ambient does very slightly improve vocal clarity of what sound does leak in around the tips. With the hooks and a poor seal I might as well be using my Powerbeats Pro, although the Sony with a semi-poor seal do sound better than the Powerbeats Pro which NEVER seal in my ears. Even with the hooks, I have to adjust the WF-SP800N regularly to get the bass to come back as they slide out about even 0.5 mm, at which point they sound about the same as the Powerbeats, not better (lose bass). I would NOT ride a bicycle with the Sony in my ears, but I do it all the time with the Powerbeats Pro (I have retired my older AirPods 2 because they simply fall out every time I turn my head).

I hear a brief crinkly sound from the drivers when I press the Sony into my ears, but if it's driver flex it doesn't make the driver stick and bind up like with the FIIL T1X, since the ear canals don't stay pressurized. So, the sound doesn't get affected at all.

*BUGS, bugs, bugs with my iPhone 11 Pro Max*. The app will sometimes disconnect from the earbuds, and reconnect. And, sometimes if I've got them in my ears for 10-30 minutes without playing music, then when I hit the play button it only get partial sound and cut-outs, and I have to remove them from my ears and put them back in to play. Sometimes when that happens I have to actually go into BT settings disconnect them from BT and reconnect to get them back and working. I don't have confidence that if I go to walk the dog and night and have an emergency that they will be ready for me to use handsfree, or that when my hands are full I wont have to drop everything to reconnect to answer a call.

Just this morning I put them in my ears and both earpieces holds me I was connected, but when I hit play on the iTunes widget on my lock screen I got no sound while it said it was playing. I unlocked my iPhone and went into the control panel to select the Sony, but they were not listed as available, even BT settings said they were connected. I had to take them out of my ears and put them back in to get sound.




So, where am I right now?

The *Sony WF-SP800N* have a 97.3% chance of being returned, and I'll use the money to buy the MTW2. I only bought them because I could get them right away, and have them brought out to my car in the Target parking lot. The poor fit is the biggest issue, followed closely by the software bugs (maybe firmware could fix that). The sound is great, and if the other issues were gone, even if only the fit issues, then I would love them - maybe even put them as #1 until I could try the Momentum TW 2, despite them sticking out of the ears like a weird growth in my ears. But the Fit ruins them for me.

My *Air Pods Pro* still give me the best ANC and Ambient modes, with a fit that isn't terrible and sound that is above average - I mostly use these when I'm at home during the day and need to hear what is going on around me while not bothering my family while I watch YouTube videos. Transparency mode is the most transparent, and ANC puts me on the surface of the moon (except for the deepest low bass rumbles). They still worked great on an airplane last December.

My *Sennheiser Momentum True Wireless* are at the top and have a nice laid back punchy sound with good detail, space, and soundstage despite slightly recessed treble, while being very comfortable - I use these in many of the same situations as the Air Pods Pro and I want to do more critical listening, but not usually when I'm walking the dog as I still hear my footsteps thumping inside my head (as I do with all of my custom IEM). they never sound fatiguing and I can wear them until the battery dies with no discomfort. I like the auto-pause when one is removed, and like having the option to set it to pause the music when I engage transparency mode, or to set it to leave the music playing with transparency. Transparency could be a little louder though, as it's not as good for conversations while wearing them as the APP or Jabra 75t.  But at least transparency mode has no hiss or white noise added like with the Jabra. And, despite no ANC they worked well for me on a couple of airplane flights last year due to good passive isolation.

My *Powerbeats Pro* give me the best retention for when I am active, and don't sound terrible when used with a poor seal that lets me hear what's going on around me (actually, I can never get a seal) - these are my goto TW for when walking the dog and riding my bike, especially at times when I just want a handsfree headset for phone calls while walking or sitting around.

My *Nuarl N6 Pro* give me great passive sound isolation and sound quality, at the expense of comfort because they hit my ears in the wrong places and feel tight in my ear canals - I miss them having a transparency mode, so I only use these late at night when I don't have to hear what is around me and want to do even more critical listening. I hate using them for phone calls due to lack of ambient/hear-thru/side-tone mode, so late at night is the only time I can enjoy them. These might be the best without ANC for use on an airplane, by a small margin due to the very tight fit in my ear canals.

My *Jabra 75t* are pretty close to what I need and I plan to use them more for the next few days to see how well they work in every day life - so far they are extremely comfortable and the transparency mode is louder for letting me hear my surroundings than the MTW, although with noticeably more white noise than transparency on the APP, MTW, or WF-SP800N. This can be heard in quiet passages in music which can be a deal-breaker for some. 

    They are pretty bass heavy or boomy at medium to high volumes without EQ, but they sound great when using the application to EQ the bass down (for which they remember the settings). I either turn down the low bass manually, or use the preset "speech" EQ, or "treble boost" EQ which also lowers the bass. they are still not as refined sounding as the Sony or Sennheiser. I just don't get a "premium" vibe from them like the MTW.

    I like that the Jabra will pause the music when I take one out and resume when I replace it. I like that they remember which settings I used last, even when the app is closed. Also, I love the "soundscapes" in the Jabra app where you can pipe in thunderstorms, waves, or rain in the background when you are just wearing them to block sound and wait for phone calls to come in. And, phone calls are great with Jabra because you can activate side-tone, which is basically hear through or transparency mode during a call so that you hear your voice more naturally despite the occlusion of your ear canal. Passive isolation without hear through turned on is about as good as APP and MTW, maybe even as good as N6P.

    I like having three "Moments" in the Jabra app for quickly changing several settings at one time - such a "My Moment" where I have hear through set at medium, with bass turned down manually, "Commute" where I have a high hear through setting and bass and treble are slightly down using "speech" EQ, and "Focus" where I have hear through off and no EQ, for quiet listening when I might have used a "loudness" setting (neutral with no EQ is like having a v-shaped loudness control).

    What I don't like - white noise in hear through mode when not playing music, no ANC, need for bass lowering EQ if listening at higher volumes BUT this is improving noticeably with burn-in.

My *FIIL T1X* sound more "audiophile" for a budget TWS than my Pamu Scroll, and are actually hard to fault the sound, but not as good as the more costly ones. So they are a huge bang for the buck if you can solve the "driver flex" issue, where your pressurized ear canal after insertion causes the driver to bind up and not want to move and distort - on the right more than left for me. My left one is so much better than the right that I wonder if I should do a warranty claim on mine, but it took 4 weeks to get them here the 1st time. I'm not sure that I have a use for these, since they are so bothersome to use with the driver flex. I considered returning them, but for the low $49 price it might be nice to keep as a spare since I did find tips that reduce the driver flex a bit.

    I posted a picture and link to the tips that I am using which work better than the FIIL tips, but I still can't just jam them deeply into my ears to get good isolation and seal without having to fiddle a bit with the right to get the driver to unfreeze. At that point some of the isolation on the right is lost. But they don't sound terrible without a seal, esp with bass EQ on in the app; so you can wear them loosely for hearing things around you and talking phone calls with good comfort. They are a little more comfortable than the N6P, and much more comfortable than the WF-SP800N; but when triggering the touch pad I hear the taps amplified inside my ears if I have a tight seal (my MTW don't seem to resonate the thump of touch-pad taps into my ears as much).

My *PaMu Scroll* are a comfortable and laid back but spacious TWS with good mids and bass, and slightly recessed treble that doesn't hurt detail - they are like a lower end version of the MTW, without the same refinement, nor auto pause and transparency mode, and no app for EQ like the MTW. I bought the APP and MTW to replace these, but not because I didn't like the sound but rather I wanted more features. I don't regret owning these, but they've been pushed to the back burner by my APP and MTW.

The *Nuprime Audio prototype TWS* - nice engaging fun sound with good soundstage and bass - being tweaked and suspect will sound close to FIIL T1X in the end but with much better comfort and without the driver flex - currently a more v-shaped freq response than T1X. Also a tiny case as small as the Jabra 75T, making them worth more to me than the T1X which have the same limited feature set. The buds are also about the same size as the Jabra 75t but with touch buttons that I don't accidentally trigger (smaller touch surface than the T1X). They're also as comfortable as the Jabra 75t and MTW, but with a little less passive isolation, which helps since there is no ambience mode. Either bud can be used as master or by itself, like the the N6P. These sound and feel like under $100 TWS, due to the feature set. With transparency and ANC they would be worth $150 maybe.


----------



## Ocelitgol (May 21, 2020)

HeadphoneAddict said:


> I agree, the WF-SP800N sound quality is very good for sure, but the quirks have me seriously questioning whether to keep them. With my T1X, at least with different tips the driver flex is improved 90% such that for $49 they are worth keeping. But the Sony WF-SP800N cost 4x as much as the T1X for a slight improvement in sound and a lot of new features, but 5x more when you add tax and a 2 year extended warranty (Although I'm not sure I want any TWS that doesn't have ambient pass thru now).
> 
> The WF-SP800N have all the features that I want such as ANC, Ambient sound pass thru, auto-pause/play when removed/inserted, and good EQ; and some neat feature I have not seen elsewhere, such as automatic location based audio adjustments and the sound enhancer for Tidal based on your ear shape. Tidal on my iPhone sounds very good after the app analyzed pictures of my ears, but I hadn't thought to try Tidal before letting the app set everything up (just went through the setup hitting "next" at every step (declined to share personal info though).
> 
> ...



Try Gbuds+?
Looking forward to hear impression on MTW2 
And that's a lot...


----------



## assassin10000

I've been playing with my buds+, foam tips and that wavelet app. 

They definitely live up to their battery life claims. I had them playing for 12 hours and 10 minutes yesterday, before I put them in their case at 1% battery left (at 20% volume most of the day).

Comfort is pretty good for my small ears. 



Spoiler: Foam Tips



Misodiko type tips fit on very tightly, their small runs large at 12mm (basically mediums). Fits my ears tightly and uncomfortable for long sessions. With a fit that tight, would be good for active use.

De-cored APP foams, fit well but a bit tight on my right ear. Works good for stability. Can be worn for long sessions.

T400 tips cut to 5mm height. Most comfortable fit, when warm they are very soft. Not the most stable if active, but I was still able to work in the backyard trimming. Great for long sessions.



The wavelet app is good, especially if you want EQ without root. I prefer their custom EQ to their AutoEQ settings. That being said, the V4A EQ seems to work better for me with 3 settings in the bass region.


These do match the harman curve, if you like the old harman curve with a hair more brightness these would be good. I prefer a more balanced signature (a 'tamed' harman sig?) so I EQ both bass and upper mids/lower treble down a bit.


----------



## Canabuc (May 21, 2020)

Follow up in my Buds+.

As I mentioned Ina earlier post, I bought a set for me and my father in law. He decided he didn't like earbuds and gave them back to return. I tried his at same settings firmware and tips. Mine are noticeably better. The bass is stronger the low end is richer. The vocals aren't as cold sounding. I really think there might be more than one tuning of these which might explain why some reviewers say they lack bass and other say they have good strong bass.

Did more A/B testing with bass heavy tracks and the difference is quite large. My F inlaw set sound thin with no bass and mine sound full punchy and strong. Not L2P strong but more than enough to enjoy the bass as it demands in the track.

I wonder how many people who dislike the bass got one tuned different. There must be different tuned batches.. loving mine for every day and the L2P for in bed when doing nothing else as they lack integration with notifications and ambient sound...also not as comfortable as buds +


----------



## tma6

Returned my Sony’s even though I liked them bc I wanna try some other stuff and to see if the xm4s come out within the next month or so. Galaxy Buds+ up next with review to come in a couple weeks.


----------



## eiraku

assassin10000 said:


> I've been playing with my buds+, foam tips and that wavelet app.
> 
> They definitely live up to their battery life claims. I had them playing for 12 hours and 10 minutes yesterday, before I put them in their case at 1% battery left (at 20% volume most of the day).
> 
> ...



Hmm, I've been wondering if they played nice with V4A. Guess they do then.


----------



## howdy

tma6 said:


> Returned my Sony’s even though I liked them bc I wanna try some other stuff and to see if the xm4s come out within the next month or so. Galaxy Buds+ up next with review to come in a couple weeks.


I'm still waiting for Bose to hopefully come out with there new TW sometime in the next decade. They are way beyond slow putting out a new device.


----------



## Caipirina

HeadphoneAddict said:


> I agree, the WF-SP800N sound quality is very good for sure, but the quirks have me seriously questioning whether to keep them. With my T1X, at least with different tips the driver flex is improved 90% such that for $49 they are worth keeping. But the Sony WF-SP800N cost 4x as much as the T1X for a slight improvement in sound and a lot of new features, but 5x more when you add tax and a 2 year extended warranty (Although I'm not sure I want any TWS that doesn't have ambient pass thru now).
> 
> The WF-SP800N have all the features that I want such as ANC, Ambient sound pass thru, auto-pause/play when removed/inserted, and good EQ; and some neat feature I have not seen elsewhere, such as automatic location based audio adjustments and the sound enhancer for Tidal based on your ear shape. Tidal on my iPhone sounds very good after the app analyzed pictures of my ears, but I hadn't thought to try Tidal before letting the app set everything up (just went through the setup hitting "next" at every step (declined to share personal info though).
> 
> ...


Gosh that case of the sp800N looks huge, makes even the powerbeats case look pocketable ... and only has 1 extra charge and no Qi ???  hmmm 

Thanks for the detailed write up. Reminds me of that one review factor I rarely see mentioned: 'reliable', seems the Sonys are on the wrong end of this ... they could fix some of it in the app I guess, and the fit ... same issues I had with the sp700N ... I ended up running with them without hooks ...


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Caipirina said:


> Gosh that case of the sp800N looks huge, makes even the powerbeats case look pocketable ... and only has 1 extra charge and no Qi ???  hmmm
> 
> Thanks for the detailed write up. Reminds me of that one review factor I rarely see mentioned: 'reliable', seems the Sonys are on the wrong end of this ... they could fix some of it in the app I guess, and the fit ... same issues I had with the sp700N ... I ended up running with them without hooks ...



No problem - I wish it was easy to refer to my comparisons of all the models pros/cons in the middle of this ever-growing thread. I mean, seriously, post 22,199 in this thread isn't that hard to remember I guess. I still have yet to find THE ONE true wireless that can be my one and only, or one of two with another that has great retention for bike rides like my PBP.

I think the Sony case is about the size of the PowerBeats Pro (PBP) case that was farther from the camera and thus looking smaller, but Sony is at least slightly less thick. I can keep my APP and Jabra 75t in the same cargo pants pocket and have less bulk than one PBP or Sony case all by itself.

*IF* I keep the WF-SP800N I will have to use them without hooks if I want ANC, and with hooks and a looser fit when I'm in situations that need transparency mode. But they will not be suitable "as is" for just wearing and walking around while doing chores or errands, as they are not reliable enough to count on them to be working when I need to be hands free. I'd keep them for sure, for the sound despite bugs, if they would fit better with the hooks and let me use both the ANC and transparency without having to remove or replace tips and hooks every time I want to switch modes.

When just sitting at the computer or reading in bed, they would be useful since they really do sound great, as long as I'm not using the hooks which make them more uncomfortable unless they are really loose in my ears. The type of hook that is more of a "wing" on the N6P or T1X is not as uncomfortable, but with the T1X, N6P and WF-SP800N if I push them deeper into my ears for a deep seal they all get a little uncomfortable vs wearing them loose and counting on the hooks to keep them in place.

So far, this puts the APP or Jabra 75t with EQ as my top picks for every day usefulness. *IF* Nuarl could add a decent "transparency" mode to the N6P via firmware, I'd move them up to the #1 spot despite hurting my ears after a few hours of wearing. *IF *I could get a seal with the PowerBeats Pro AND they had a transparency mode with a good seal, then maybe they could move into #1. I have never tried this, but I have heard that some Apple BT devices can let you have ambient mode through the accessibility settings using "live listen" and the built-in phone mic. So, maybe apple with add that feature to all of their BT devices but using the device mic instead of the phone mic (firmware update to PowerBeats Pro maybe?).

So, if I return the Sony I'll have to try the MTW2 next, since the MTW1 are so comfortable and the MTW2 are supposed to have improved transparency while adding ANC.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict (May 22, 2020)

Ocelitgol said:


> Try Gbuds+?
> Looking forward to hear impression on MTW2
> And that's a lot...



How well do Gbuds+ work on an iPhone?
Any features lost by not using Android?

PS: I really need to find my PaMu Slide TWS, maybe in a box under my bed, and try them out. If I recall correctly, they are built more like the APP and have a Qi charging case. I got them on Kickstarter or Indegogo a long time back, and squirreled them away.


----------



## Ocelitgol

HeadphoneAddict said:


> How well do Gbuds+ work on an iPhone?
> Any features lost by not using Android?
> 
> PS: I really need to find my PaMu Slide TWS, maybe in a box under my bed, and try them out. If I recall correctly, they are built more like the APP and have a Qi charging case. I got them on Kickstarter or Indegogo a long time back, and squirreled them away.


Don't quote me on this, but I read that Gbuds+ app in iPhone does not miss any feature, just the OG Gbuds does.


----------



## voicemaster

Ocelitgol said:


> Don't quote me on this, but I read that Gbuds+ app in iPhone does not miss any feature, just the OG Gbuds does.


Does it run on scalable codec or AAC?


----------



## assassin10000 (May 22, 2020)

@Ocelitgol @eiraku @chinmie

Just setup that wavelet app with custom EQ for a couple different BT devices. The custom EQ stays matched to the BT device. When you switch to another TWS, it goes to the custom EQ set for it.


I just wish it let me save some individual custom EQ's, as I have multiple earphones I use with my BT20S. That way I could load whatever setting to match what earphone is attached at the time.


----------



## Ocelitgol

voicemaster said:


> Does it run on scalable codec or AAC?


for iPhone AAC since Scalable is exclusive to Samsung I believe


----------



## hifi80sman

tma6 said:


> Returned my Sony’s even though I liked them bc I wanna try some other stuff and to see if the xm4s come out within the next month or so. Galaxy Buds+ up next with review to come in a couple weeks.


Ahh, so YOU’RE the source of all those open box deals!


----------



## Trebor1966

Today FIIL T1 XS launched:
https://www.xiaomitoday.com/fiil-t1-xs-tws-earphones/
First review:
https://post.smzdm.com/p/akmgllmr/


----------



## eiraku (May 22, 2020)

assassin10000 said:


> @Ocelitgol @eiraku @chinmie
> 
> Just setup that wavelet app with custom EQ for a couple different BT devices. The custom EQ stays matched to the BT device. When you switch to another TWS, it goes to the custom EQ set for it.
> 
> ...



This is awesome. Unfortunately I don't yet have enough TWSes to make this worthwhile... but the Edifier NB is already leering at me from my online retailer shopping cart lol.

Unfortunately, Eid is too close and postage is thus in total shutdown mode where I am right now so I'll prolly have to wait a bit first.



Trebor1966 said:


> Today FIIL T1 XS launched:
> https://www.xiaomitoday.com/fiil-t1-xs-tws-earphones/
> First review:
> https://post.smzdm.com/p/akmgllmr/



A smaller cased T1X? Despite the fact that sourcing an "English Firmware" T1X is already a PITA over here, I'm pretty interested.

Plop wireless charging capability to the case and I'll be showering them with cash for sure. I'm unfortunately a bit spoiled now after having that on my L2P.



Spoiler



Heck, I even got a wireless PB - the Baseus S10 - along with the L2P, so I'm doubly spoiled.


----------



## RemoGaggi

Experiences with SF Express shipping?  My KZ Z1's shipped from China fairly promptly and arrived in New York a week ago (I'm in California) and the tracking is showing no movement since.  Is this normal and what are your experiences with this shipping service?


----------



## BigZ12

As I've written before, sadly I have a battery case drain issue with my new Tevi set (the replacements I got in February)
I contacted Lypertek, but since I have (somehow) deleted the email containing the original order number, they don't want to help.

Their last email said:
"we had looked for whole system and could not find your order record
sorry"

Yeah right.... Wow, that's service for you


----------



## assassin10000

eiraku said:


> Plop wireless charging capability to the case and I'll be showering them with cash for sure. I'm unfortunately a bit spoiled now after having that on my L2P.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I agree. Wireless charging really is convenient.

I even converted my X12 pro case to wireless charging (it's not the ultra version which has aptx and wireless charging). Hard to go back to without it. I did for the XM3's for a bit.


----------



## eiraku (May 22, 2020)

assassin10000 said:


> I agree. Wireless charging really is convenient.
> 
> I even converted my X12 pro case to wireless charging (it's not the ultra version which has aptx and wireless charging). Hard to go back to without it. I did for the XM3's for a bit.



Any how-tos to do just that? I think I kinda stumbled upon one somewhere (someone sticking a pad inside their TWS case) but for the life of me I can't remember where I found it any more lol.

I'm totally up to prying open a TWS case if someone can show me how to do it without breaking it.

That said, I don't actually have mad soldiering skillz so I might just do a rough external mod instead (something like sticking an external QI receiver mat somewhere outside the case). The downside to this is that external QI pads are usually kinda HUGE.

TBH, someone should just start doing silicone QI charging cases for popular TWS models. I mean, there already one for the Airpod IINM.


----------



## Ocelitgol

eiraku said:


> Any how-tos to do just that? I think I kinda stumbled upon one somewhere (someone sticking a pad inside their TWS case) but for the life of me I can't remember where I found it any more lol.
> 
> I'm totally up to prying open a TWS case if someone can show me how to do it without breaking it.
> 
> ...


https://www.amazon.com/Nillkin-Wire...rds=qi+charging+adapter&qid=1590169323&sr=8-3 like this?
Have to find a smaller one though.


----------



## assassin10000

eiraku said:


> Any how-tos to do just that? I think I kinda stumbled upon one somewhere (someone sticking a pad inside their TWS case) but for the life of me I can't remember where I found it any more lol.
> 
> I'm totally up to prying open a TWS case if someone can show me how to do it without breaking it.
> 
> ...



Ah. It takes some soldering skills, as well as some fitment work. 

Most cases probably wont have room inside for the components. It only worked easily as the circuit board was already setup for wireless charging and I had a bad E12 to transfer everything from (same case dimensions). I still had to modify the case inside to fit everything, it would snap back together without doing so.


If you don't take the case with you, you may be better served by buying a universal cell phone 'qi wireless charging receiver'. Just plug it in and set the case/charger on the pad. Not as convenient as a built in solution.



assassin10000 said:


> ...
> 
> I spent some time today modding my 'brand-used' X12 Pro case with the Qi wireless charger taken from a bad E12 set.
> 
> ...


----------



## TYATYA

Solid,  eardrum destroyer bass but no sub aukey ept10 will got big improvement by Wavelet autoeq.
Just simply install then use auto eq of anker liberty air2 for ept10 and job done.

Auto library does not contain ept10. However ept10 (graphen) and air2 (DLC) sharing similar sound properties.


----------



## BigZ12

This Wavelet eq app, do you think it could work with the LDAC transmitter in a Nvidia Shield TV?


----------



## assassin10000

BigZ12 said:


> This Wavelet eq app, do you think it could work with the LDAC transmitter in a Nvidia Shield TV?



Is it Android 9.0 based or newer?


----------



## jant71 (May 22, 2020)

New design...



The charge case is a neckband. Kinda convenient. No lids and no pockets needed and pretty easy to put them in at one with one side in each hand. Could be even more useful with storage built in to put your podcasts on or some workout tunes and keep one's music folder clean of that stuff. I'd be on board if a Sony or other decent brand name would do something like this.


----------



## BigZ12

assassin10000 said:


> Is it Android 9.0 based or newer?


Yes, Android 9.0 (tv)


----------



## assassin10000

BigZ12 said:


> Yes, Android 9.0 (tv)



It may work then. Give it a try?


----------



## webvan

Rtings review of the MTWS 2 and they're not very enthusiastic. I agree that the ANC is weak but the passive+active isolation isn't as bad as they measured it in my experience. Also I find that their form factor strikes the right balance between comfort, isolation and solid fit, best I've ever had TBH.


----------



## BigZ12 (May 22, 2020)

webvan said:


> Rtings review of the MTWS 2 and they're not very enthusiastic. I agree that the ANC is weak but the passive+active isolation isn't as bad as they measured it in my experience. Also I find that their form factor strikes the right balance between comfort, isolation and solid fit, best I've ever had TBH.


And they're even better with Comply Foam tips. Got them today, in Large. (was recommended to buy a size larger than I usually use)
With silicone I had to reduce treble to avoid sibilance. Smoother highs with the Complys and I now once again use a flat eq..

Edit: Maybe they are a little "duller" with the Comply for MTW 1/2, but as I said; smoother. The comfort is fantastic.


----------



## BigZ12

assassin10000 said:


> It may work then. Give it a try?


Have to buy the Nvidia Shield first  That's why I asked if it would work.


----------



## hifi80sman

BigZ12 said:


> As I've written before, sadly I have a battery case drain issue with my new Tevi set (the replacements I got in February)
> I contacted Lypertek, but since I have (somehow) deleted the email containing the original order number, they don't want to help.
> 
> Their last email said:
> ...


Yeah, total BS.  They can easily find something by address, payment, or likely any other number of ways if they really tried to look.  I think I may now have to back out of any future offerings from this company!  That'll teach them!


----------



## assassin10000 (May 22, 2020)

BigZ12 said:


> Have to buy the Nvidia Shield first  That's why I asked if it would work.



Ohhhhh. Thought you already had it lol.

If it has 9.0 and the Android audio libraries the app needs, I don't see why it wouldn't work. As long as it allows apps from the play store to install.

It may not work with all audio/video players. I know it works with the larger streaming services. But you'll have to find out or find someone to try it on theirs.

_________________


Doing some A/B'ing of my 2 current TWS, the Air-XR and Buds+.

The bass has more impact or 'punch' on the XR's and may reach deeper (haven't done a frequency sweep to check). The Buds+ reach deep but lack some weight to the bass notes.

The XR mids are more forward and vocals are more natural sounding to me. Where-as the Buds+ mids are a bit thin sounding.

Treble (quantity) seems to be better on the Buds+, but the upper mids/lower treble is harsher than I'd like. The XR treble is non-fatiguing in comparison, no harness in exchange for a softer tone.


The Air-XR has a depth and richness to the sound that the Buds+ doesn't. Overall for pure SQ, I still have to go with the XR's. Even though they may lack a bit of air or shimmer in comparison.


----------



## VICosPhi (May 22, 2020)

Got Jabra 75t and they sound great. Bass may be bloated for some but for me, I am liking the mid bass. From what I have read so far, these seem to have the highest quantity of mid-Bass than other TWS. The small size is great too as you can lay on your side listening to music.


----------



## BakedVodka (May 22, 2020)

Fiil T1XS







So these appeared on geekbuying, with an appropriately sized charging case at last.
Here's hoping for the customizable eq too, although I'm not holding my breath for that one.


----------



## eiraku (May 22, 2020)

Ocelitgol said:


> https://www.amazon.com/Nillkin-Wire...rds=qi+charging+adapter&qid=1590169323&sr=8-3 like this?
> Have to find a smaller one though.



Yep, that's pretty much the smallest of the "brand name" mats, though there's actually a specific "short cable" version of this Nilkin that's  slightly more compact but pretty hard to track down (I had to actually get them with BTC off FastTech lol).

Some of the "off brand" mats are slightly smaller tho, and - with a little trimming of the mat cover - can probably be made tinier. Unfortunately as far as charging capability (and durability) is concerned, these are pretty much a crapshoot lottery.



BakedVodka said:


> Fiil T1XS
> 
> So these appeared on geekbuying, with an appropriately sized charging case at last.
> Here's hoping for the customizable eq too, although I'm not holding my breath for that one.



Doesn't the Fiil app already come with a built in EQ? All early signs point to the T1XS working fine with the app so yeah.

Also I'm kinda getting a vibe from the GB listing that ambient / trans mode is there too. I'm not sure if the old T1X had it (does it?).


----------



## voicemaster

eiraku said:


> Yep, that's pretty much the smallest of the "brand name" mats, though there's actually a specific "short cable" version of this Nilkin that's  slightly more compact but pretty hard to track down (I had to actually get them with BTC off FastTech lol).
> 
> Some of the "off brand" mats are slightly smaller tho, and - with a little trimming of the mat cover - can probably be made tinier. Unfortunately as far as charging capability (and durability) is concerned, these are pretty much a crapshoot lottery.
> 
> ...


The T1X doesn't have any of the bell and whistles like ambiance mode, ANC, etc. It just purely sound quality, decent call quality and decent batter life.


----------



## assassin10000

eiraku said:


> Yep, that's pretty much the smallest of the "brand name" mats, though there's actually a specific "short cable" version of this Nilkin that's  slightly more compact but pretty hard to track down (I had to actually get them with BTC off FastTech lol).
> 
> Some of the "off brand" mats are slightly smaller tho, and - with a little trimming of the mat cover - can probably be made tinier. Unfortunately as far as charging capability (and durability) is concerned, these are pretty much a crapshoot lottery.



You can peel the front and back stickers apart on most of these. Then you can turn the coil sideways instead of vertical. You can possibly also shorten or relocate the usb-c/micro usb connector if it uses wires.


----------



## TYATYA

Wavelet also help on B&O E8 ver2, 3.
From slight warm -> neutral. Metalic female voice sometimes, now gone!

Support app now is a few. Hope to see improvememt in future


----------



## BigZ12 (May 23, 2020)

hifi80sman said:


> Yeah, total BS.  They can easily find something by address, payment, or likely any other number of ways if they really tried to look.  I think I may now have to back out of any future offerings from this company!  That'll teach them!


I don't know yet, but it seems they listened to my critique, or another guy saw my last mail (where I expressed my disappointment of their recent handling of the issue).
They asked me for my phone number now, that could mean they are shipping a new charging case with DHL Express!

"Please inform your phone number as well
So that we can send out to you"

I hope so, and will keep you posted. Maybe you could trust them with future offerings anyway


----------



## webvan

BigZ12 said:


> And they're even better with Comply Foam tips. Got them today, in Large. (was recommended to buy a size larger than I usually use)
> With silicone I had to reduce treble to avoid sibilance. Smoother highs with the Complys and I now once again use a flat eq..
> 
> Edit: Maybe they are a little "duller" with the Comply for MTW 1/2, but as I said; smoother. The comfort is fantastic.



Yeah that's the problem with Comply tips, the sound just becomes "dull" or "veiled". Wear silicone on one side and a comply on the other side and be ready to cry...tried it again with the MTW2 and no change  The other problem of course is having to squish them, wait, readjust and the quick wear and tear.


----------



## webvan

BakedVodka said:


> Fiil T1XS
> 
> 
> So these appeared on geekbuying, with an appropriately sized charging case at last.
> Here's hoping for the customizable eq too, although I'm not holding my breath for that one.


----------



## BigZ12

webvan said:


> Yeah that's the problem with Comply tips, the sound just becomes "dull" or "veiled". Wear silicone on one side and a comply on the other side and be ready to cry...tried it again with the MTW2 and no change  The other problem of course is having to squish them, wait, readjust and the quick wear and tear.


Which tips do you use with the MTW2?

I actually like them with Complys. Couldn't listen to some songs with silicone, very harsh highs. That's solved with Complys. Amazing comfort and seal, but yes, sadly less detailed.
Tried some Symbio F foam, nice comfort, maybe a bit "brighter" than the Complys but I felt they lacked too much bass.


----------



## TheLionelHutz

webvan said:


>


That just means cVc, doesn't it? (The noise cancellation feature highlighted.)

Wonder what chip they are using to support low latency.


----------



## eiraku (May 23, 2020)

TheLionelHutz said:


> That just means cVc, doesn't it? (The noise cancellation feature highlighted.)
> 
> Wonder what chip they are using to support low latency.



If it *IS* CvC doesn't that also mean they've moved to a Qual chip (from what IINM was Realtek previously). Looking at how they're highlighting "low latency" (when I'm pretty positive there *was *LL/Game  mode before - IF you could make it work on the app) seems to be a clue to this as well (as it "might" mean actual low(-er) latency codec support this time around).

As always, I could also be wrong lol.

All that said, I do hope they make the English prompt version easier to buy this time around. It's already a huge PITA to get the Eng version of the current T1X, at least here where I'm at.


----------



## webvan

BigZ12 said:


> Which tips do you use with the MTW2?
> 
> I actually like them with Complys. Couldn't listen to some songs with silicone, very harsh highs. That's solved with Complys. Amazing comfort and seal, but yes, sadly less detailed.
> Tried some Symbio F foam, nice comfort, maybe a bit "brighter" than the Complys but I felt they lacked too much bass.



I have both the Sports and Audio (conical) Comply's and sadly the sound becomes very dull with them, not to mention the aggravation of having to squish them (and replace them after a few weeks based on my previous experience with the XM3s that only worked for me with the Complys as I had to ram them in to make them hold). I do have some "shinier" foams, the Missokos (sp?) that I've found don't degrade the sound so much, will give them a try.


----------



## voicemaster

webvan said:


>


What is monitor mode? Is it ambiance mode??So it has noise cancelling for the mic now, it was already pretty decent so thats even better. I believe T1X already has Low Latency mode so I don't know. Smaller case with the same battery capacity is always welcome. I hope they don't tweak the sound too much as to make it suck.


----------



## jsmiller58

BakedVodka said:


> Fiil T1XS
> 
> 
> So these appeared on geekbuying, with an appropriately sized charging case at last.
> Here's hoping for the customizable eq too, although I'm not holding my breath for that one.


do either have aptx or aptx-hd support?


----------



## voicemaster

jsmiller58 said:


> do either have aptx or aptx-hd support?


Nope, but their AAC is probably the best in android.


----------



## BakedVodka

eiraku said:


> Doesn't the Fiil app already come with a built in EQ? All early signs point to the T1XS working fine with the app so yeah.



I don't have them myself but from what I've read I understand that while they do have some eq presets, they don't have the ability to edit the bands to make a custom one.


----------



## howdy

Does anyone have the B&O v2 if so how was there an improvement compared to v1 in sound? 
Ive always favored the design of them just like the Senns.


----------



## TYATYA

howdy said:


> Does anyone have the B&O v2 if so how was there an improvement compared to v1 in sound?
> Ive always favored the design of them just like the Senns.



As I know V2 did not change from V1 except charging case.
V3 improve battery and transparent mode but not the sound.
More metalic and "s" harsh than V2


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

I am NOT going to be able to live with the Sony WF-SP800N, and I really really wanted to. The BT bugs and poor fit in my particular ears are too much to overcome, despite great sound when I have a seal and a bucket full of features.

The hooks wont let me push them in deep enough to seal. And to have to remove the tips in order to remove the hooks, and then replace the tips, just to get a seal to use the ANC is a royal pain. I could not walk around all day without the ear hooks because they wont stay in - I can't use the second to last size of tips for a seal, and the largest tips slowly push themselves out of my ears so I could lose an earbud. For some, they might like that the Sony can be worn without a seal to better hear ambient sounds, while the hooks still hold them in place (so they don't hit the ground) - without a seal they don't sound terrible, and they can handle EQ to get almost as much bass as if they had a seal.

And neither the ANC nor transparency mode are quite as good as my Air Pods Pro, even if they sound better with music.  I got in my car wearing my MTW in transparency mode, and while outside sounds are not quite as loud as with my APP, I could very easily hear the car stereo playing and the sound quality was pretty good from listening through the built-in microphones, without any white noise in the background like with the Jabra 75t.

In comparison, the Sony transparency mode has no hiss like Jabra but are not any louder than the MTW (both are quieter than the APP but Sony is still more muffled than the MTW). Sony was maybe even slightly quieter, making it harder to hear things than with my MTW. The MTW are better for phone calls than the Sony, unless I use the Sony with ear hooks and a loose fit that leaks sound.

The Sony just don't offer me anything my MTW can't do, especially if I EQ to get slightly more treble and 95% of the time I never need to EQ the MTW. I'll have to return the Sony and use the refund to help pay for the MTW2 next. I just didn't want to spend $300 for a slight upgrade or side grade to my MTW.


----------



## eiraku (May 24, 2020)

voicemaster said:


> What is monitor mode? Is it ambiance mode??So it has noise cancelling for the mic now, it was already pretty decent so thats even better. I believe T1X already has Low Latency mode so I don't know. Smaller case with the same battery capacity is always welcome. I hope they don't tweak the sound too much as to make it suck.



Yeah that's what I said before lol. Seems the S version *might* have ambient / trans / "monitor" mode now which is pretty awesome if true.

Also fully tunable app EQ would be nice if the "old" T1X + app really only does presets... but we already have Wavelet to take care of that part so that's a non-issue.

If it still retains the SQ of its bigger brother, might just snatch one over the Edifier NB I have in my sights right now... if I can find an English Prompt version anyway.


----------



## TheLionelHutz

Something weird going on with the Wavelet app for me. Seems like it will remember your settings and personal EQ for a given BT output (car, earbuds, other earbuds, other earbuds...) even if you can't make and save the profile yourself. So when I connect my N6s, it remembered how I had set the EQ and reverb, and when I later connected my ADVs again, it remembered the different EQ for those (neither is in the database). Most excellent.

 But it looks like if you connect a new, unrecognized BT output and set it up, everything gets wiped out. Or at least that's what happened when I connected to the BT on my Yamaha receiver. Had to re-EQ the ADVs, Nuarls, and my car. 

Recommendation: screenshot your preferred custom EQ when you have an output connected, as a backup.


----------



## McCol

Ok silly question time 

I've tried 3 pairs of different TWS earphones and on the whole been largely disappointed with the overall sound quality.  Now I know I wasn't going to get quality on a par with my wired options but I wasn't expecting it to be as bad as it was.  

Now my question is this, is there a TWS that can compete with my RHA CL2 using it's bluetooth neckband?  Compared to using the CL2 wired the bluetooth neckband is a little fuzzy and loses detail however it is  better than the 3 TWS I tried?  I don't mind using the neckband but it's a bit of a pain swapping out the cable on a regular basis.

The models I tried and returned or sold were Galaxy Buds+, Cambridge Audio Melomenia and the MIFO 07.

I'm currently looking at the Senn TWS2, Master + Dynamic 07 Plus and the Nuraloop


----------



## clerkpalmer

McCol said:


> Ok silly question time
> 
> I've tried 3 pairs of different TWS earphones and on the whole been largely disappointed with the overall sound quality.  Now I know I wasn't going to get quality on a par with my wired options but I wasn't expecting it to be as bad as it was.
> 
> ...


I've never heard the CL2 but I highly doubt it. I have the i3 and the sq over the bt cable is still leaps and bounds above any tws. You are really comparing apples to oranges.


----------



## McCol

clerkpalmer said:


> I've never heard the CL2 but I highly doubt it. I have the i3 and the sq over the bt cable is still leaps and bounds above any tws. You are really comparing apples to oranges.



I thought as much, was just looking for some clarification. 
I've used the BT cable a few times with the I3 and its very good but I dont think I'd use it when I'm out walking.


----------



## clerkpalmer (May 24, 2020)

McCol said:


> I thought as much, was just looking for some clarification.
> I've used the BT cable a few times with the I3 and its very good but I dont think I'd use it when I'm out walking.



Off topic but how does the cl2 compare to the i3? As for tws, if you want high end sq, try some iems with the bt20s adapters.  You have to find a set that is efficient and matched properly to the bt20s but I've heard some pretty good combos. A good efficient 100 chi fi iem matched to a bt20s  is pretty excellent sq wise. My tfz no3 and bt20s are awesome.


----------



## McCol

clerkpalmer said:


> Off topic but how does the cl2 compare to the i3? As for tws, if you want high end sq, try some iems with the bt20s adapters.  You have to find a set that is efficient and matched properly to the bt20s but I've heard some pretty good combos. A good efficient 100 chi fi iem matched to a bt20s  is pretty excellent sq wise. My tfz no3 and bt20s are awesome.


The CL2 is a totally different beast to the I3.  The best way I can describe it is that the CL2 is probably tighter in the detail especially in the highs but it isnt as musical or have that wonderful soundstage of the I3.  They kind of compliment each other and satisfy different listneing moods.

I'll look into the adapters, I had noticed others from Shure I think


----------



## clerkpalmer

Anyone know what the mtw2 firmware update did? With a little treble bump mine are sounding sublime.


----------



## RemoGaggi

jsmiller58 said:


> do either have aptx or aptx-hd support?


They do not, but they are amazing.


----------



## willyboyaudio

Hi Folks, I want to ask your input about a possible budget TWS purchase. I am planning to use this mainly for video calls, therefore microphone quality is very important. I have the following criteria if it's helpful to make recommendations:

Need to have: Price under $25, good microphone quality, nice and natural midrange, minimal lag.
Not priority _(but still nice to have): _Battery life, treble and bass extension, loud volume, extended Bluetooth range

So far I'm looking at:
- QCY T5: I've heard good comments about its mic, being on stems therefore reaching closer to the mouth
- KZ S1D: Good midrange thanks to its dynamic driver
- Haylou GT1 Plus: All around good choice, I've heard, but not sure about the mic quality.

Thank you all, any and all recommendations appreciated.


----------



## DynamicEars

RemoGaggi said:


> They do not, but they are amazing.



Any news about your KZ Z1?


----------



## The Socialist Nerd

I use a pair of PowerBeats Pro and they work all right but are no Audeze quality in soundstage.


----------



## TYATYA

McCol said:


> Ok silly question time
> 
> I've tried 3 pairs of different TWS earphones and on the whole been largely disappointed with the overall sound quality.  Now I know I wasn't going to get quality on a par with my wired options but I wasn't expecting it to be as bad as it was.
> 
> ...



What is your hearing flavor/color?
Senn tws 1 and 2 was far from native color ?
I dont find they have mid to listen to.
Most native is Sony wf1000xm3 on B&O E8 eartip (silicon tip of xm3 is one kind of crappy. Bad looking and no bass).

I found bload or bloom bass is typical of tws.
Maybe my ears errors may be manufacture tune it with purpose. (I never touch any thing with "sport" in their name but bass almost much more than needed).

Wavelet really good.
E8 metalic treble, both v2 v3 ->improved
Aukey ept10 bloat bass->improve
Anker liberty air2 bload bass ->improve

For better result, manual adjustment after some difference tracks trial.
See how much bass cut below. I must gain it to recover abit.
Aukey ept10 is too bad for listening (ah, I am not gymmer, boxer or dance remix fan).
But after correcting by wavelet, it is easier to adopt.
Hope you can tune your tws before let them go.

P.S ept10 is not model with auto eq data, myself remark it same as anker air2 so using its auto eq as seen in pics)


----------



## RemoGaggi

DynamicEars said:


> Any news about your KZ Z1?


According the tracking info, my KZ Z1 has arrived in New York on 5/15 and hasn't moved since.  I'm in California.  I emailed Linsoul early last week and they said it is waiting to be transferred to the United States Post Office for final delivery.  Now I wish I would have spent the extra money on better shipping.  Who knows when it will get here.


----------



## DynamicEars

RemoGaggi said:


> According the tracking info, my KZ Z1 has arrived in New York on 5/15 and hasn't moved since.  I'm in California.  I emailed Linsoul early last week and they said it is waiting to be transferred to the United States Post Office for final delivery.  Now I wish I would have spent the extra money on better shipping.  Who knows when it will get here.



Hope you're getting them soon


----------



## martiniCZ

willyboyaudio said:


> Need to have: Price under $25, good microphone quality, nice and natural midrange, minimal lag.
> Not priority _(but still nice to have): _Battery life, treble and bass extension, loud volume, extended Bluetooth range
> 
> So far I'm looking at:
> ...


Soundpeats Truedot have a pretty good and responsive mic. On the others I tried in this price range (onyx neo, whizzer c3 and bluedio fi) I had to speak very loudly to hear something. Mids on truedos are not bad, I like bass on them, the treble is sufficient for most people. It lasts 4 hrs./charge, which is not bad for such a size, it's definitely worth considering.


----------



## webvan

The "sony fit" problems continue with the SP800N then ! With two reports so far, one is fine, the other is terrible. I guess I'll have to try them for myself as they do tick all the boxes apart from that.


----------



## bronco1015

I masked up and had to take a 3 hour trip on a shuttle. Took the MTW2 with me. ANC was, adequate. What i expected from the speaker tests i tried at home. with the great sq, comfort, transparency mode and the anc, glad i ordered them. Sure i wouldn't mind if the ANC were a bit better, but it blocked out a good chunk of the rumble of the motor/road noises.


----------



## Luchyres

Hey everyone!

I've mainly been on here paying attention to the TOTL for sound quality, but I have a new need for a friend and would appreciate a gut-check/recommendations.

My friend, whose ears are on the smaller side, is looking for some TWS for exercise mainly:

- Stable fit
- Sweat resistant/proof
- Great sound, with great bass extension  but still delivers on the mids (EDM, Rap, reggae)
- Good connection to iPhone 11
- Call quality less important. 

Ideally, sub $100. 

I was considering perhaps the Sony Xb700 but they seem overpriced, and the Fiil T1X (or T1XS if anyone knows when it comes out) would be a solid choice for her. If you all have any other recommendations better than the T1X, or one that comes in bright orange/fun colors like the Sony SP800N does in orange, lmk! Thank you!


----------



## Sebulr

Luchyres said:


> Hey everyone!
> 
> I've mainly been on here paying attention to the TOTL for sound quality, but I have a new need for a friend and would appreciate a gut-check/recommendations.
> 
> ...


The bomaker sifi are ipx 7 and really small 6-7h battery and 3 recharges in a small case. Plenty of bass and decent sound in general. There is a new version out with touch controls. Not sure if they sound the same. I paid £32 for mine, and they area steal at that price. They only come in black, however.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

webvan said:


> The "sony fit" problems continue with the SP800N then ! With two reports so far, one is fine, the other is terrible. I guess I'll have to try them for myself as they do tick all the boxes apart from that.



If not for the impossible fit, I would have kept the Sony WF-SP800N and hoped that the bugs in software and firmware might get fixed. The sound with a good seal (ear hooks removed) was good, fun and energetic and not bloated, with a fair to medium-good transparency mode and ANC (neither as good as Air Pods Pro).



bronco1015 said:


> I masked up and had to take a 3 hour trip on a shuttle. Took the MTW2 with me. ANC was, adequate. What i expected from the speaker tests i tried at home. with the great sq, comfort, transparency mode and the anc, glad i ordered them. Sure i wouldn't mind if the ANC were a bit better, but it blocked out a good chunk of the rumble of the motor/road noises.



What do you have in mind that does ANC better than MTW2? I'm using my Air Pods Pro as my benchmark - I'm still looking for comparisons of MTW2 ANC and Transparency modes vs others. Thanks.


----------



## webvan

Had you used the XM3s ? If yes do the SP800N without the hooks hold better in the ears than the XM3s that problably own the title of the fastest seal losing TWEs known to man ?


----------



## hifi80sman

webvan said:


> The "sony fit" problems continue with the SP800N then ! With two reports so far, one is fine, the other is terrible. I guess I'll have to try them for myself as they do tick all the boxes apart from that.


You'll have to give it a shot yourself.  From person to person, ears differ the most.  I've seen some huge people with tiny ears and some small people with ginormous ears.  Personally, I have medium/average ears.  After trying different combinations, I find the L ear hooks make my ears sore after a couple of hours, but the M ear hooks (default) fit just fine.  I also have the L ear tips installed and can't get a good seal with M (default).  That being said, I can wear these for 4 hours straight, no problem.

I also have no issues with the App or BT running from my iPhone Xs Max.


----------



## hifi80sman

webvan said:


> Had you used the XM3s ? If yes do the SP800N without the hooks hold better in the ears than the XM3s that problably own the title of the fastest seal losing TWEs known to man ?


I tried it and it's about the same.  The lack of stability over time is what led me to sell my XM3.  Once your ear starts to build up oil/sweat (gross, I know), it's game over for me with the XM3.  Hey, that rhymes!


----------



## Francesco Montanari

Hi guys. Today my geekbuying marketing referent told me Fiil T1xs will be in stock next week in China and she will provide me a discount code form my audience... Obviously I will share it with you


----------



## RemoGaggi (May 26, 2020)

DynamicEars said:


> Hope you're getting them soon



While my KZ Z1 continue to sit in a warehouse in NY, I saw a 50% off sale on Reddit with a code for the UFUSHO F16's on Amazon.  I didn't see too many reviews on Youtube and the information here was somewhat mixed.  But, with a total cost of $19.56 I decided that another pair wouldn't hurt anything.  Plus, the case on this one doubles as a charger for my phone.  Seems great for traveling.  I just got a note from Amazon that they will be here tomorrow.  Does anyone have anything good (or bad) to say about the F16's?


----------



## TheLionelHutz

Luchyres said:


> Hey everyone!
> 
> I've mainly been on here paying attention to the TOTL for sound quality, but I have a new need for a friend and would appreciate a gut-check/recommendations.
> 
> ...


I love my Advanced Sound Model X+.  They fit all of those + the call quality (which is great, at least when not in wind), they sound fantastic on iPhone AAC, and they pack Qi charging. $80 shipped.


----------



## d3myz

Trebor1966 said:


> Today FIIL T1 XS launched:
> https://www.xiaomitoday.com/fiil-t1-xs-tws-earphones/
> First review:
> https://post.smzdm.com/p/akmgllmr/


This is exciting. I've been going back and forth via e-mail for 2 months now trying to get my T1x replaced. the port completely detached from the housing. i'll make sure to buy a square trade warranty on their stuff from now on.


----------



## d3myz

eiraku said:


> This is awesome. Unfortunately I don't yet have enough TWSes to make this worthwhile... but the Edifier NB is already leering at me from my online retailer shopping cart lol.
> 
> Unfortunately, Eid is too close and postage is thus in total shutdown mode where I am right now so I'll prolly have to wait a bit first.
> 
> ...


It appears it also has wear detection, monitor mode, which i'm assuming is ambient mode and dual noise cancellation mics.

https://www.geekbuying.com/item/FII...m&utm_medium=affiliate_1478&utm_campaign=1478


----------



## tma6

Just got the galaxy buds + today. Will update w impressions as I go along. Probably full review within the next week or so


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

tma6 said:


> Just got the galaxy buds + today. Will update w impressions as I go along. Probably full review within the next week or so



I got them about 3 hours ago but have been to Denver for PC parts and can’t listen until later.


----------



## voicemaster (May 27, 2020)

tma6 said:


> Just got the galaxy buds + today. Will update w impressions as I go along. Probably full review within the next week or so





HeadphoneAddict said:


> I got them about 3 hours ago but have been to Denver for PC parts and can’t listen until later.


Try the "wavelet" EQ app if you can. Been using mine for work and the phone call quality is top notch. I am only using one side when doing phone call (I am working in the kitchen) so fan, timer, all kind of noises are present and my wife doesn't have any problem hearing me and it is international phone call too. And the ambiance mode is good too, I did try using mine while ordering In-n-Out and Starbucks drive thru and I can hear the server just fine.


----------



## TYATYA

voicemaster said:


> Try the "wavelet" EQ app if you can. Been using mine for work and the phone call quality is top notch. I am only using one side when doing phone call (I am working in the kitchen) so fan, timer, all kind of noises are present and my wife doesn't have any problem hearing me and it is international phone call too. And the ambiance mode is good too, I did try using mine while ordering In-n-Out and Starbucks drive thru and I can hear the server just fine.



Wavelet is excellent for tws.
For high end inear, it seems not on my trial.
I think it is better if someone create a thread therein we vote for which models get effective, which just so so effective.


----------



## VICosPhi

Wavelet seems great but I miss Viper4Android. Bass setting on Wavelet is as useless as it can get. EQ itself works fine.


----------



## TYATYA

VICosPhi said:


> Wavelet seems great but I miss Viper4Android. Bass setting on Wavelet is as useless as it can get. EQ itself works fine.


I used to use Viper.
There is no magical like wavelet.
Viper can tigten up sound for bloat loose sound as samsung phones...
But sacrify a bold and full sound as wavelet can does.
I use auto eq and extra modify later if result is not best on my ears.
EQing to neutral sound is so difficulty for a FR curve with many peak/dips ... which almost inear have, even using parametric eq.


----------



## voicemaster

TYATYA said:


> Wavelet is excellent for tws.
> For high end inear, it seems not on my trial.
> I think it is better if someone create a thread therein we vote for which models get effective, which just so so effective.


Why even use EQ for "High-end" IEM? 
For me, the most noticeable difference when using Wavelet has been on my Gbuds, Gbuds+ and KZ ZS7 with bt20s.


----------



## voicemaster

TYATYA said:


> I used to use Viper.
> There is no magical like wavelet.
> Viper can tigten up sound for bloat loose sound as samsung phones...
> But sacrify a bold and full sound as wavelet can does.
> ...


If only there is 32 band EQ for android like the Equalizer APO in windows 10.


----------



## TYATYA

voicemaster said:


> Why even use EQ for "High-end" IEM?
> For me, the most noticeable difference when using Wavelet has been on my Gbuds, Gbuds+ and KZ ZS7 with bt20s.



High end inear, headphones still be improved. 
They does not sound same as others, right?
But, effective is less and harder to improve because they have less tolerance.

Sonarwork good for hd800s.
Wavelet is not that good for Shure kse1500...
Both app are parametric eq implement.
Graphic eq can change warm/cold tonal but not good at correction FR errors.

Biggest effect of wavelet to me, I found it on Aukey ept10 (sorry who using ept10).
W/O wavelet, I will throw away immediately after unbox it.
Before knowing wavelet I had to eq it, but wavelet push to higher level.
B&O E8 v3 is worse than v2 due to high peak in FR lead it be too metalic highs.
E8 are listenable, but I never know how good it can be before using wavelet.

It seems worse inear, more effective.


----------



## inf.h5n1

Peter Yoon said:


> We are working diligently to get the first batch of orders shipped out within May.  There is a wide variation of available real estate per user and we've had to make several adjustments to stabilize the PCBA, not to mention the delays in small components due to supply chain effect from COVID-19.



Hi Peter,  I guess we all get the complications this times brings..  is there an update on estimated time of delivery? Really looking forward to see reviews on it.


----------



## AudioNoob

eiraku said:


> All that said, I do hope they make the English prompt version easier to buy this time around. It's already a huge PITA to get the Eng version of the current T1X, at least here where I'm at.


The website says that you can choose the English prompt though it comes with the Chinese ones by default. Looks like they included both this time (though it remains to be proven)


----------



## eiraku (May 28, 2020)

AudioNoob said:


> The website says that you can choose the English prompt though it comes with the Chinese ones by default. Looks like they included both this time (though it remains to be proven)



If this (and rumors of "monitor mode") is true I might just brave hell and high heaven to get a pair lol. Hopefully the sound sig remains as competent though.

OFC, if they somehow add wireless charging to the mix: Hell, high heaven *and *all the multiverses.


----------



## bronco1015

HeadphoneAddict said:


> If not for the impossible fit, I would have kept the Sony WF-SP800N and hoped that the bugs in software and firmware might get fixed. The sound with a good seal (ear hooks removed) was good, fun and energetic and not bloated, with a fair to medium-good transparency mode and ANC (neither as good as Air Pods Pro).
> 
> 
> 
> What do you have in mind that does ANC better than MTW2? I'm using my Air Pods Pro as my benchmark - I'm still looking for comparisons of MTW2 ANC and Transparency modes vs others. Thanks.


 I just wish the ANC were a bit better in general is what i meant. I'd say king for ANC is the Sony WF1000X M3. After some work, i got a good fit, but my sound preferences are better addressed by other products. E.G. the MTW's, Nuarl's, an eqed L2P etc. Aside from the standard YMMV in the case of the Airpods Pro it's also results may varry. This is because of the effects certain firmware versions like 2C54 have had on the ANC of many Airpods pro units. That said, since you have ANC that is good enough to set as a standard, i'd either wait till a product comes out that has improved ANC, E.G. potentailly 2nd gen of Airpods Pro, Bose iem version of the 700 or something else; or pick up the MTW2 for these reasons. you've mentioned having a good fit with the first gen MTW, the housing on the 2nd gen is slightly smaller so will probably be an even mor comfortable fit. Transparency mode is top notch with the MTW2 imo. Very full, natural and at a great volume; making it easy to hear everything around you clearly. The ANC, while not a strength of the MTW2, is not bad. It's complementary to the rest of the over-all experience of the MTW2 in that it will reduce the sounds of central air, cab/engine noises, but not have that vacuum like effect. it's certainly better than the passive isolation you get with the MTW2. My impressions haven't changed on the sound of these, so add that up with everything else i've just mentioned. I definitely understand wanting to have the best ANC in this case, but the XM3 doesn't come with hooks, so you may have trouble getting a fit with these in a similar way that you did with the SP800 both with and without hooks.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict (May 28, 2020)

*MORE THOUGHTS - WHAT STAYS AND WHAT GOES*

So far, while the *FIIL T1X* sound very good for the price, I don't like that they have the driver flex that locks up the right driver and lack of ambient mode. Thinking that the right ear piece is defective more than the left I contacted the seller about a return - they refunded me. But I don't know if it's worth taking my chances to order a replacement with the refund, especially since I have a plethora of TWS right now. Those 3rd party silicon tips that were suggested here made them much better, and while I still have to fiddle with them to get a seal without locking up the right driver, it's a pain.

The *Liberty Air 2* (LA2) sound very nice, with much less driver flex (only very occasional and easy to fix), but I don't like that they also lack ambient mode. However, they fit me better than the T1X, and I like the auto-pause when removing them from my ears as well as the tiny Qi compatible case. Still debating over returning these before June 24th deadline, because they're hard to use in phone calls without removing one.

The *Nuarl N6P* will stay, just for the high quality audio and good passive noise blocking, but I hate the lack of ambient mode with these and can't use them for phone calls without ambient pass through for my voice, unless I remove one. These will have limited use like the LA2. [edit - these are still one of the least comfortable for me]

I'm giving my brother (or daughter's BF) my PAMU PADMATE before I even unbox them, as they've been sitting around a while and likely would not replace the LA2 having similar features. My Pamu Scroll that I did open and use for a few years will stay, serving as my non-ambient TWS with a more laid back and mellow sound signature, of which the others are the opposite.

All of my TWS with an ambient / transparency / hear-through modes will stay.

The *Jabra 75t* will stay, having ambient mode, and decent sound with EQ, although I still think that the ambient mode is a little too "hissy" or noisy. I tried playing music through the car stereo while wearing them in ambient mode, and they are definitely my voice focused than the APP or MTW ambient mode which sound more audiophile through the microphone in ambient mode. But, it wasn't terrible. I feel like the WF-SP800N also had a more audiophile sounding hear through mode with music playing from speakers, with a switch to make it more voice focused, but either way it was too quiet, maybe more quiet than the MTW.

The *MTW* will stay, although ambient noise pass though or transparency mode is not as loud as the Jabra it is a better quality, and the audio reproduction is also more audiophile.

Obviously the *Apple APP and PBP* will stay, as I can use them for music and phone calls while hearing ambient noise around me, and music reproduction is not bad (not as good as MTW or N6P). The PowerBeats Pro don't have an ambient mode, but they leak and don't seal while providing good sound, so I never have trouble wearing them and acting like Im not - perfect for riding my bicycle and not losing them (bad for the wind noise).

And now, the *Galaxy Buds+* will also stay, with very good ambient pass through for phone calls and sitting around while listening to music and my wife talk at the same time. The ambient pass through is also more "speech focused" like the Jabra 75t, but they don't hiss at me and their music reproduction is among the best as well (with my limited listening on day #1 today).

[Wow did auto corrupt screw up that post royally - had to fix a million typos, and I am not "kissing my music" normally.]


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

bronco1015 said:


> I just wish the ANC were a bit better in general is what i meant. I'd say king for ANC is the Sony WF1000X M3. After some work, i got a good fit, but my sound preferences are better addressed by other products. E.G. the MTW's, Nuarl's, an eqed L2P etc. Aside from the standard YMMV in the case of the Airpods Pro it's also results may varry. This is because of the effects certain firmware versions like 2C54 have had on the ANC of many Airpods pro units. That said, since you have ANC that is good enough to set as a standard, i'd either wait till a product comes out that has improved ANC, E.G. potentailly 2nd gen of Airpods Pro, Bose iem version of the 700 or something else; or pick up the MTW2 for these reasons. you've mentioned having a good fit with the first gen MTW, the housing on the 2nd gen is slightly smaller so will probably be an even mor comfortable fit. Transparency mode is top notch with the MTW2 imo. Very full, natural and at a great volume; making it easy to hear everything around you clearly. The ANC, while not a strength of the MTW2, is not bad. It's complementary to the rest of the over-all experience of the MTW2 in that it will reduce the sounds of central air, cab/engine noises, but not have that vacuum like effect. it's certainly better than the passive isolation you get with the MTW2. My impressions haven't changed on the sound of these, so add that up with everything else i've just mentioned. I definitely understand wanting to have the best ANC in this case, but the XM3 doesn't come with hooks, so you may have trouble getting a fit with these in a similar way that you did with the SP800 both with and without hooks.



Thanks for that - you posted while I was still typing my last post. 

I am working on getting a review sample of the MTW2, after sharing my MTW OG review with Sennheiser, but found out yesterday that my contact at Sennheiser has been furloughed due to CoVid-19. I feel bad that I was 4 months late with my first review, but I seem to be on a roll for now with posting impressions.


----------



## bronco1015

RemoGaggi said:


> While my KZ Z1 continue to sit in a warehouse in NY, I saw a 50% off sale on Reddit with a code for the UFUSHO F16's on Amazon.  I didn't see too many reviews on Youtube and the information here was somewhat mixed.  But, with a total cost of $19.56 I decided that another pair wouldn't hurt anything.  Plus, the case on this one doubles as a charger for my phone.  Seems great for traveling.  I just got a note from Amazon that they will be here tomorrow.  Does anyone have anything good (or bad) to say about the F16's?


i'll say this about the ofusho F16. Take the fins off imo, then grind the  sharp pointy ends off the top. Then if you have either an Android dev you'd use them with i'd download the wavelet app using Android 9 and up, or an otherwise great EQ option. They're okay, but the the Tranya B530 pro at the same price or just about anything at that price will be better by default than the F16. Unless they retuned them of course. That said, they aren't bad, can be used in mono, can be shower buds if you want to use them for that, they will last forever, seriously i charged them once during Labor Day last year, and never had to recharge them again the whole time i owned them. Granted, they were mostly used in the shower FWIW, but still. That was like over a 4 month period. Then i got rid of them.


----------



## webvan

So have anyone been able to compare the ANC of the SP800N with the one on the XM3 ? According to Sony it's not as advanced but there have been reports that it seems just as good, not in side by side tests though. Some seem to consider the APP as the best in class but I wonder if it's not because it's the most "impressive", i.e. when it kicks in your REALLY notice the difference. You could also feel it kick in pretty well with the XM3s and on the Libratone Track Air+, the problem is that their passive isolation was not great, especially on the LTA+, similar to the APPs I'd say. On the other hand the Echo Buds have stellar passive isolation and the ANR give it a little extra "push" to provide the "best in class" TWS isolation IMHO. The same is true of the MTW2 to a lesser extent.


----------



## RemoGaggi

bronco1015 said:


> i'll say this about the ofusho F16. Take the fins off imo, then grind the  sharp pointy ends off the top. Then if you have either an Android dev you'd use them with i'd download the wavelet app using Android 9 and up, or an otherwise great EQ option. They're okay, but the the Tranya B530 pro at the same price or just about anything at that price will be better by default than the F16. Unless they retuned them of course. That said, they aren't bad, can be used in mono, can be shower buds if you want to use them for that, they will last forever, seriously i charged them once during Labor Day last year, and never had to recharge them again the whole time i owned them. Granted, they were mostly used in the shower FWIW, but still. That was like over a 4 month period. Then i got rid of them.


Thanks.  I got them to use when I'm working outside and don't want to risk dropping or breaking my nicer buds.  Also, for traveling.


----------



## Luchyres

Geekbuying is now allowing preorder of the T1 XS FIIL - shipping in 4 days. Does anyone have experience/know how long it would typically take to get to a state like PA if ordering from China on Geekbuying?


----------



## Francesco Montanari

AudioNoob said:


> The website says that you can choose the English prompt though it comes with the Chinese ones by default. Looks like they included both this time (though it remains to be proven)


also t1x can swith from chinese and english... if i pair with ipad they speak english, if i pair with android they speak chinese... I cannot reproduce it precisely but it happens


----------



## Francesco Montanari

Luchyres said:


> Geekbuying is now allowing preorder of the T1 XS FIIL - shipping in 4 days. Does anyone have experience/know how long it would typically take to get to a state like PA if ordering from China on Geekbuying?


wait few days I should have a discount code. For european members use Eu Priority Line to avoid duties and taxes


----------



## eiraku

Francesco Montanari said:


> also t1x can swith from chinese and english... if i pair with ipad they speak english, if i pair with android they speak chinese... I cannot reproduce it precisely but it happens



That is... interesting. Maybe it only does English if it connects through AAC? 

Or maybe it simply speaks what the app tells it to (if you managed to install the app on both the iPad and Android anyway).

Anyhow, I'll probably wait for confirmation first if the T1Xs can indeed do Chi/Eng (and does "monitor" mode) before committing myself to one.


----------



## Peter Yoon

inf.h5n1 said:


> Hi Peter,  I guess we all get the complications this times brings..  is there an update on estimated time of delivery? Really looking forward to see reviews on it.


Initial batch should be ready within few weeks time.  Our customers will be the first to know the specific lead time.  Thanks for your understanding.


----------



## VICosPhi

PSA: Jabra just released an update for their app, you can now customize button controls and they also have "hearing test" option in the app now


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

I like the "experimental" setting in the GBuds+ app that lets you program a tap on the "edge" of the ear bud touchpad to add volume up and down. So nice to not have to ask Siri to do it or to pull the phone out of my pocket. So, now you can control play/pause, call/hangup, skip forward/backward, volume up/down, voice assistant/ambient mode, all with touch controls.


----------



## jant71

Anybody try out the AKG N400 yet?


----------



## RemoGaggi

RemoGaggi said:


> Thanks.  I got them to use when I'm working outside and don't want to risk dropping or breaking my nicer buds.  Also, for traveling.



I got the OFUSHU F16's today.  They are going back.  The sound was actually a bit better than I was expecting, but they have HORRIBLE fit.  I believe the fitment problems are due to the shape of earbud itself.  There's no angling or curving of the ear tip to fit into the ear canal.  The L and R earbuds look identical, not mirror image identical, but the rather the case and eartip is shaped exactly the same.  Each would fit in either ear exactly the same way - the case and angle of the ear tip is exactly the same for L & R.  Terrible design.  Also, I couldn't get the touch controls to work properly with my ipad.  The touch controls were very unresponsive and I was able to pause a song, but I could not tap it to get it to play again.  Likewise, the volume control on these is super non-responsive as well.  By far, these are the worst fitting earbuds I've tried.


----------



## jlcsoft

just bought the qcy t5 for 12,88€ in dhgate, incredible price,  The coupon:  DHYF5OFF


----------



## Francesco Montanari

jlcsoft said:


> just bought the qcy t5 for 12,88€ in dhgate, incredible price,  The coupon:  DHYF5OFF


With same code the haylou gt1 plus a 17 dollars


----------



## Luke Skywalker

tgx78 said:


> Have you tried tip rolling it? I found some genetic silicone tips that work well without causing pressure build up.


I hate to ask such a basic question... What is tip rolling?  I hear people talk about it on here all the time but I haven't been able to find a good description googling.  Thanks!


----------



## jant71

Luke Skywalker said:


> I hate to ask such a basic question... What is tip rolling?  I hear people talk about it on here all the time but I haven't been able to find a good description googling.  Thanks!



You take the tips off the earphone(this is very important step to do first). Then get one of these...




...rolling pins and roll out those tips! Then they will fit much better!

Tip rolling means to try other types of tips. Brands and types. Foam vs. silicone. Single vs. dual vs. tri-flange. Spiral Dots, Earfit, Spin Fit, Whirlwind etc. etc.


----------



## Sebulr

Luke Skywalker said:


> I hate to ask such a basic question... What is tip rolling?  I hear people talk about it on here all the time but I haven't been able to find a good description googling.  Thanks!


It's nothing weird, just an odd phrase to describe trying different tips to see which ones fit and sound the best for the individual and the earphone. Different materials and shapes can effect the sound. For example small bores tend to increase bass by a few dB. But also if you have a bad seal with your ear, the earphones will sound tinny. You can also effect the sound by having tips or earphones with longer insertion depth, also this effects the isolation effect. I normally take an extra large tip. But some earphones go quite deep in my ears, and I can get away with a large 12.5 mm tip, for example my bomaker sifi, have a long nozzle. Most of us have a bag of tips that we cycle through until we find one that fits. My main goto tips are earphone plus xl 14.5mm wide jobbys. Sometimes I'll use a "flipped" large kz tip to extend the depth a bit. 

We all have different ears, use whatever fits. My wife can't stand iems. So all the more for me.


----------



## Luke Skywalker (May 29, 2020)

bronco1015 said:


> Reading posts in real time, so not sure what replies you might have already. But nuarl N6 Pro if it's just SQ for nearly half the cost. The Senns are really good though. Depending on what gear they might have or prefer, maybe the Sonys, but fit is mor difficult with those. Lypertek Tevi, Anker l2P, But in all, for the transparency mode, ANC and SQ the Senns are a good purchase. Better than the 1st gen were. If we still had the 1st gen MTW only, i'd be adding caveats like, case battery drains. Fit is subjective. etc. The 2nd gen are well worth it this time around imo.


I like the nuarl N6 Pro best personally...  I have the Sony's and Jabra 65's and I think the N6 blows both of them away

This is going to sound idiotic, but one of the things I like about the N6 is that it doesn't have an EQ app.  I'm really OCD and I find myself constantly adjusting the settings on the Sony's and I feel like it never really sounds good. 

The N6's?  Stick them in my ears and hit play.  They don't have tons of bass but I don't like bass 

Fit great with Acoustune tips


----------



## Luke Skywalker

jant71 said:


> You take the tips off the earphone(this is very important step to do first). Then get one of these...
> 
> ...rolling pins and roll out those tips! Then they will fit much better!
> 
> Tip rolling means to try other types of tips. Brands and types. Foam vs. silicone. Single vs. dual vs. tri-flange. Spiral Dots, Earfit, Spin Fit, Whirlwind etc. etc.


Haha I would almost think you're messing with me but that's super cool.  I would've never thought about doing that, thanks


----------



## Luke Skywalker

BigZ12 said:


> Have to buy the Nvidia Shield first  That's why I asked if it would work.


Just got mine the other day... I'm on Nvidia's email list and when I got one that said it was in stock, I bought as quickly as I could.  Man, it is an awesome device - way superior to the Shield I had before (that died...).  The remote is maybe the best I've ever seen on an electronic device, it's lightning fast, and 4K HDR looks unbelievable.  Best $199 I ever spent


----------



## BigZ12

Luke Skywalker said:


> Just got mine the other day... I'm on Nvidia's email list and when I got one that said it was in stock, I bought as quickly as I could.  Man, it is an awesome device - way superior to the Shield I had before (that died...).  The remote is maybe the best I've ever seen on an electronic device, it's lightning fast, and 4K HDR looks unbelievable.  Best $199 I ever spent


BUT I've read it only supports SBC?? Have you tried the BT out yet?


----------



## RemoGaggi

The TWS sickness is real.  I just read Scarbir's new review on the Bomaker SiFi 2 and just purchased a set from Amazon UK (I'm in the USA).  Total cost to USA is $56 USD.  I bet these get here faster than my KZ Z1's that arrived in New York 14 days ago and continue to sit in a warehouse there for no reason.


----------



## webvan (May 29, 2020)

Bomaker SiFi 2 ? Huh, had missed that, quite liked the first one I got for 25€ but passed it on as I couldn't get a good fit. Let's look at that review...

EDIT : Ok it's here https://www.scarbir.com/tws/bomaker-sifi-ii-review

So they've completely redesigned compared to the SiFi 1, which is just as well as far as I'm concerned, and their shape reminds me of the MTW2 which fit very well in my ears as they actually have a place to "rest" unlike the SiFi 1 (or T5/M5 and many others) that just float around and end braking their seal pretty quickly unless they're rammed in.

No more APT-X it seems ? Not that I'm really bothered about that. And there is a 20% off coupon until June 2nd so 35€, hum...


----------



## Luke Skywalker

BigZ12 said:


> BUT I've read it only supports SBC?? Have you tried the BT out yet?


Now that is an excellent question my friend...  I wonder how I could figure that out?  Perhaps in Developer Options... 

So the way I'm listening is by:
1) Pair my HiBy R6 Pro with my ES100 
2) Plug my JH Lola IEM's into the ES100, balanced 2.5mm
3) Play some Tidal music.  It shows LDAC on the ES100 app
4) Connecting my HiBy R6 Pro to the Shield with a USB cable.  
5) Play video from VLC, or Netflix app on Shield, etc. 

A lot of effort but it was just awesome watching the original Star Wars Ep. 4 in 2160p HDR on my projector and hearing the beautiful sound out of my Lola's.  I also watch stuff late at night so I can't crank my soundbar without getting kicked out of my house by the lady

Interestingly (and i was going to mention this actually...), it shows 24/192 on the R6 display.  Not sure if that's legit but I seem to remember it only saying 24/96 with my old Shield


----------



## erockg

Trying these out this week.  All-in, $130.  Pretty impressed so far.


----------



## Bobbetybob

RemoGaggi said:


> The TWS sickness is real.  I just read Scarbir's new review on the Bomaker SiFi 2 and just purchased a set from Amazon UK (I'm in the USA).  Total cost to USA is $56 USD.  I bet these get here faster than my KZ Z1's that arrived in New York 14 days ago and continue to sit in a warehouse there for no reason.


Oh no why do I keep clicking on this thread. Ordered as well, I'm in the UK so should get them tomorrow I'll try and post an impression.


----------



## webvan

That would be great I'll hold on for your first impressions before I hit GO !


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Luke Skywalker said:


> Haha I would almost think you're messing with me but that's super cool.  I would've never thought about doing that, thanks



Now you're messing with us


----------



## chinmie

Bobbetybob said:


> Oh no why do I keep clicking on this thread. Ordered as well, I'm in the UK so should get them tomorrow I'll try and post an impression.



because this thread is addictive


----------



## bronco1015

Luchyres said:


> Geekbuying is now allowing preorder of the T1 XS FIIL - shipping in 4 days. Does anyone have experience/know how long it would typically take to get to a state like PA if ordering from China on Geekbuying?


I ordered my Mi mix 2S from geekbuying, it was sent via DHL and got to me in 3-5 days IIRC. It wasn't long at all. I was really impressed.


----------



## bronco1015

Luke Skywalker said:


> I like the nuarl N6 Pro best personally...  I have the Sony's and Jabra 65's and I think the N6 blows both of them away
> 
> This is going to sound idiotic, but one of the things I like about the N6 is that it doesn't have an EQ app.  I'm really OCD and I find myself constantly adjusting the settings on the Sony's and I feel like it never really sounds good.
> 
> ...


Part of the reason i resisted getting TWEs for so long was for a similar reason. I was really against the idea of eq thinking it would sound to artificial. It was on the Jabra elite 65T where i first discovered that wasn't necessarily the case. I love having eq now. If you're messing with the sound of the Sonys that much i'd return or sell them. But i love when a headphones sounds great to me out of the box. the n6P  is one of those products for me as well.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

bronco1015 said:


> Part of the reason i resisted getting TWEs for so long was for a similar reason. I was really against the idea of eq thinking it would sound to artificial. It was on the Jabra elite 65T where i first discovered that wasn't necessarily the case. I love having eq now. If you're messing with the sound of the Sonys that much i'd return or sell them. But i love when a headphones sounds great to me out of the box. the n6P  is one of those products for me as well.



Yeah, I have found that EQ through the total wireless earbud manufacturer's app is much better than EQ via the iPhone system software, but not all of them need EQ. The Jabra 75t are a bit better with the "speech" EQ or "treble boost" EQ, or some custom combination of those.


----------



## webvan

Bobbetybob said:


> Oh no why do I keep clicking on this thread. Ordered as well, I'm in the UK so should get them tomorrow I'll try and post an impression.


So did you receive them ?


----------



## Bobbetybob

webvan said:


> So did you receive them ?


Yeah only had a chance to listen for a few hours or so but so far impressions are positive.

First thing I noticed is the fit, I was a bit worried when I first saw the images, thinking that they looked quite large but they actually fill my ears nicely and feel super snug without being uncomfortable. They also don't stick out much at all. I swapped the standard shallow tips for the slightly longer ones and got a really nice seal too, in conjunction with the body filling your ear they seem to offer really good isolation.

Sound wise I think Scarbir probably does a better job explaining it than I could but I do generally agree with what his review, especially regarding the lower mid emphasis, it makes for quite interesting listening as it can emphasise a bass line that normally blends into the background (you can actually just about hear the bass lines in Metallica!) or make background lines in electronic songs that you're not used to hearing stand out, it can really change the colour of a song. Outside of this everything else just works for me, good amounts of bass, treble that does it's job and doesn't get fatiguing. Soundstage is adequate and separation seems very good.

Other bits and pieces: case is reasonably big but does allow for some third party tips, with the Sony Hybrid tips on even though the buds charge and stick to the magnets the lid doesn't quite shut, with the Spinfit CP360's it works perfectly. Battery seems great and as advertised, charging LED's on the front of the case seem to stay on until the buds are charged which is a bit annoying. Touch controls work well, I still think the TrueDot layout is my favourite, volume control on these has a habit of pausing the music (single tap is play/pause, 1.5 second hold for volume, it seems like if you hold for maybe 2 seconds it won't pause so I'll probably get use to it.)

All in all despitI'd chalk this one up as another win in the £30-40 budget category.


----------



## RemoGaggi

Bobbetybob said:


> Yeah only had a chance to listen for a few hours or so but so far impressions are positive.
> 
> First thing I noticed is the fit, I was a bit worried when I first saw the images, thinking that they looked quite large but they actually fill my ears nicely and feel super snug without being uncomfortable. They also don't stick out much at all. I swapped the standard shallow tips for the slightly longer ones and got a really nice seal too, in conjunction with the body filling your ear they seem to offer really good isolation.
> 
> ...


Glad I could help you spend your money!  Thanks for your impressions.  I am looking forward to getting mine.  AmazonUK says June 22 arrival for me here in California.


----------



## FYLegend

HeadphoneAddict said:


> I like the "experimental" setting in the GBuds+ app that lets you program a tap on the "edge" of the ear bud touchpad to add volume up and down. So nice to not have to ask Siri to do it or to pull the phone out of my pocket. So, now you can control play/pause, call/hangup, skip forward/backward, volume up/down, voice assistant/ambient mode, all with touch controls.


It's a great feature for general use but it is quite easily triggered when running or dancing or lying down while sleeping.

Another user has confirmed that the Buds+ do sound better with SBC XQ on LineageOS and Linux. It's interesting they noted that even AAC seemed to have a bitrate limit of 160kbps on their phone.  It is possible that Samsung can change the default bitrate but I doubt they will unless more people take note of the issue. I am annoyed that this issue is what prevents me from using the Buds+ across both mobile and PC, even more so than the lack of multipoint.

Seems like UGREEN has a new TWS called HiTune but they're only teasing one image here. The price is no longer listed but if you search it on Aliexpress it said it was around 112$ CAD.
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4001085665647.html


----------



## dooxtypoox

I just posted a Head-fi review for the 75t for those who are eyeing it!



I hope this helps


----------



## jeffri

Just got my Surface Earbuds



It's quite decent, powerful sound and a bit bassy. More importantly, it is very comfortable to wear for hours and surprisingly pretty secure despite the earbuds fit.


----------



## webvan

Bobbetyth.bob said:


> Yeah only had a chance to listen for a few hours or so but so far impressions are positive.
> 
> First thing I noticed is the fit, I was a bit worried when I first saw the images, thinking that they looked quite large but they actually fill my ears nicely and feel super snug without being uncomfortable. They also don't stick out much at all. I swapped the standard shallow tips for the slightly longer ones and got a really nice seal too, in conjunction with the body filling your ear they seem to offer really good isolation.
> 
> ...



Thanks for sharing, they seem like a good deal and it's good to hear that they fit well by filling in the ear, I never got the practical point of tiny "eardrop" TWEs that have nothing to rest against like the Bomaker SiFi I or the SSKs and that pop out very easily unless they are rammed in. The MTW2 are like that too. Just pressed GO on Amazon, should be here on the the 9th.


----------



## chinmie

jeffri said:


> Just got my Surface Earbuds
> 
> 
> 
> It's quite decent, powerful sound and a bit bassy. More importantly, it is very comfortable to wear for hours and surprisingly pretty secure despite the earbuds fit.



can you snap a picture of it on the ear? i kinda like the round form factor, like the pixel buds, but a bit hesitant on how it would actually look when worn


----------



## Sam L

For harman target fans, here are my 1000xm3 settings. 






The result:


----------



## BakedVodka

TWS with self sterilizing case? Now this is something else.



btw it's Tronsmart Onyx Free


----------



## Dobrescu George

Anyone had a chance to check MW07GO from Master Dynamic? I'm in love with this one for sports, but there's a bigger brother, MW07 PLUS that sounds even better out there, and my video about that will be coming soon as well. Until then, here's the MW07Go for you, please leave a comment on how you'd like to see me improving my content if you have something you want to tell me!


----------



## Dobrescu George

BakedVodka said:


> TWS with self sterilizing case? Now this is something else.
> 
> btw it's Tronsmart Onyx Free



Wow, does it melt ear wax tho? That would be an even better feature, fresh tips every time


----------



## Dobrescu George

BTW2 : Notes from Audiophile-Heaven: The best cheapest most inexpensive TWS right now

KZ Z1 - Good all-rounder. Terrible hissing all the time, and ugly looks in green

Tranya B530 PRO - amazing all-rounder, no real cons, besides the horrible touch controls that I just can't keep myself from touching while handling them

Pamu Unique - Slightly less irritating touch controls, but where both Z1 and B530 PRO are V-Shaped, and have great detail, Pamu Unique is Balanced, slightly mid forward, really audiophile sound from a company that is really not known at all

More news to come from time to time, as I discover new stuff


----------



## NMSX

I've read the last 15 pages, still reading but

Looking for a pair of true wireless, I've almost decided on Jabra elite / elite active 75t but then I saw a ton of reviews of people returning them after a while because the left earbud doesn't work properly due master/slave link between them. ANC is appreciated but not mandatory. And it seems like a hardware issue so... RIP

Any other sugestions around 120-180€? Momentum 2 way too expensive (230€) and Galaxy Buds+ or Airpods Pro looks clearly inferior in terms of sound quality to the Jabra themselves according every review I read (even though I have and i11 Pro Max, I know the APP would work like a charm but I prefer better sound quality)

Is there any option I'm missing or recommendation?  Thanks!


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

dooxtypoox said:


> I just posted a Head-fi review for the 75t for those who are eyeing it!
> 
> I hope this helps



Thanks for the review - I agreed with most of your thoughts.

Pros: - Tactile sub-bass, seismic in nature
- No bass bleed into the midrange
- Detailed sounding midrange
- Comfortable ergonomic shell shape, secure fit without ear fins
- Compact charging case
- Good features in Jabra Sound+ app
Cons: - Uncontrolled, woolly sub-bass
- Imbalance within bass region, hyper-boosted sub-bass and relatively tame mid-bass makes for an uneven timbre
- Tinny tonal quality
- Treble region could do with more definition
- Narrow-sounding headstage

The "Cons" in the sound can be improved noticeably with the EQ in the application. I use the "speech" EQ for normal listening, and the "neutral" EQ setting for lower volumes since that response is like a loudness control with great bass. For louder listening I'll turn up the 250Hz band on top of the "speech" or "treble boost" EQ, but make sure the highest frequency EQ is also turned down.

I like the fit, ergonomics, and features enough to overlook the sound that needs to be EQ'd, only because I paid $99 for refurbished on newegg, and not the full price. Otherwise the MTW or GBuds+ are a better value if your IEM must sound good and also have a transparency mode included.


----------



## X-Nemesis (May 31, 2020)

Are there any buds with the shape and sound signature of the Spunkybeats but with an easy push-able button control like the 75t?  I really love the Spunky's for how low profile they are but DAMN son, the push controls are a nightmare.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

NMSX said:


> I've read the last 15 pages, still reading but
> 
> Looking for a pair of true wireless, I've almost decided on Jabra elite / elite active 75t but then I saw a ton of reviews of people returning them after a while because the left earbud doesn't work properly due master/slave link between them. ANC is appreciated but not mandatory. And it seems like a hardware issue so... RIP
> 
> ...



The GBuds+ sound quality is more audiophile sounding, and definitely not inferior, vs the Jabra or AirPods Pro.


----------



## chinmie

NMSX said:


> Galaxy Buds+ or Airpods Pro looks clearly inferior in terms of sound quality to the Jabra themselves according every review I read



from the consensus of members in this thread, it seems the opposite... well unless for people who enjoy overwhelming amount of bass


----------



## voicemaster

NMSX said:


> I've read the last 15 pages, still reading but
> 
> Looking for a pair of true wireless, I've almost decided on Jabra elite / elite active 75t but then I saw a ton of reviews of people returning them after a while because the left earbud doesn't work properly due master/slave link between them. ANC is appreciated but not mandatory. And it seems like a hardware issue so... RIP
> 
> ...


The Gbuds+ has more of a flat or neutral sound signature and not really inferior to the 75t imho. But then, it is only really shine when paired with samsung phone where it will use "scaleable" SBC codec which is superior to regular SBC imho.
For pure sound quality, get Nuarl N6 Pro. Can't go wrong with that one.


----------



## dooxtypoox

HeadphoneAddict said:


> Thanks for the review - I agreed with most of your thoughts.
> 
> Pros: - Tactile sub-bass, seismic in nature
> - No bass bleed into the midrange
> ...


Sounds like you've got an awesome deal there! Thanks for the tips, I'll give them a shot


----------



## Sunstealer

Thanks again to @Bartig. Just caught the news of the Bomaker Sifi II, read your review and bought straight away. Got 10% off Amazon UK until 7th June. Your description of the MkI matches what I heard and experienced so it was a no-brainer. 

It sounds like the MkII has addressed some of the minor deficiencies in the sound, namely neutral bass and some sibilance particularly with female voices. I hope the call quality is as good as the Mk1. The other good news is that the case is now USB C and the faceplate is touch sensitive. I had to brace the MkI against my ear to press the button. I also haven't read about many TWS sets having volume control (I'm sure there are but it doesn't seem to be a standard feature).


----------



## richthorn

Been eyeing the Sony lately. How does the microphone quality hold up? I'd primarily be using them for work so I don't want to sacrifice call quality


----------



## Ultrainferno

A new Monday means a new Wireless IEM review, and today we look at the classic $10USD Xiaomi Redmi Airdots. 
https://www.headfonia.com/xiaomi-redmi-airdots-review/


----------



## bronco1015

So, was at a friends last night, and listened to their pixelbuds2, and compared them with another friend's airpods Pro. IMO, they have a very similar sound. was a pretty limited comparison, but i'd say the mids and bass are mor forward on the pixelbuds, but tonally they sounded the same to me. The fit are great on both, i prefered the way the pixelbuds2 sat in my ear and i didn't expect that i'd prefer the fit, but the fin tucks in nicely and i don't feel it while wearing them. The case for the pixelbuds is really nice as well, and has a great weight to it. One of the nicest built cases i've seen for a TWE, but will it scratch easily like the M&D, or airpods cases? i don't know. With the discount i get on Google products i may actually pick a pair of these up at some point. but not until i had a current pair die on me or if i sold one etc. I don't think they're worth $180 though FWIW.


----------



## jeffri

chinmie said:


> can you snap a picture of it on the ear? i kinda like the round form factor, like the pixel buds, but a bit hesitant on how it would actually look when worn





Pardon my quarantine hair... it lays flat though, so basically invisible when viewed from the front.


----------



## NMSX

HeadphoneAddict said:


> The GBuds+ sound quality is more audiophile sounding, and definitely not inferior, vs the Jabra or AirPods Pro.


I read yesterday that Samsung bought AKG etc and now I find more reasonable that the quality is above what I expected from them. Thanks! 



chinmie said:


> from the consensus of members in this thread, it seems the opposite... well unless for people who enjoy overwhelming amount of bass


My opinion/knowledge are based on many reviews I read on most websites and few YouTube reviews. But in the end I think that this kind of forums are the best source to find detailed unbiased info. Being honest I enjoy some bass, but I prefer what you may call ‘audiophile’ profile. 
I’m not trying to defend any brand or whatsoever, just want to buy decent earbuds



voicemaster said:


> The Gbuds+ has more of a flat or neutral sound signature and not really inferior to the 75t imho. But then, it is only really shine when paired with samsung phone where it will use "scaleable" SBC codec which is superior to regular SBC imho.
> For pure sound quality, get Nuarl N6 Pro. Can't go wrong with that one.


I tried to look for Nuarl N6 info and even though 僕は日本語学生です I don’t have enough Japanese level to understand most of what the reviews say. But the bit of info I found said they were quite good, but I’d like to know more about them.


----------



## voicemaster

NMSX said:


> I read yesterday that Samsung bought AKG etc and now I find more reasonable that the quality is above what I expected from them. Thanks!
> 
> 
> My opinion/knowledge are based on many reviews I read on most websites and few YouTube reviews. But in the end I think that this kind of forums are the best source to find detailed unbiased info. Being honest I enjoy some bass, but I prefer what you may call ‘audiophile’ profile.
> ...


Most of the reviews you see online or on amazon, they are mostly focus on BASS. If the bass is loud, they say it is good. Here, we are a little bit more elaborate on that. We love bass, but we appreciate more on neutral/flat sound. Also, some of reviews on amazon etc, they don't know how to tip rolling meaning they don't get a good seal so the earbud will sound tinny. 
The Nuarl N6 pro is not just quite good. It is hella damn good. It may not have all the other features like noise canceling, ambiance mode, auto play/pause, touch control, etc, but it is focused more on sound quality and battery life in which they have achieved marvelously imho.


----------



## FYLegend

BakedVodka said:


> TWS with self sterilizing case? Now this is something else.
> 
> btw it's Tronsmart Onyx Free


They claim the touch controls are improved with "Panasonic tactile switches". Also what's with the free samples?


----------



## Sam L

love the sterilizing case! I picked up a UV lamp in the germicidal spectrum and made this to sterilize my wallet, phone, tws, etc.


----------



## 13gsc13

Good day 
I don’t need anc or pass thru 
only looking for excellent sound
I’m 62 and have slight hearing loss
I have the Soundcore Liberty 2 Pro and really like the sound of them 
I Also have the Fiil T1X (Which I like) but I like the L2P sound better
I listen to country music - new and old - and old rock from the 70’s 
I won’t be using them for sports, etc - just sitting and listening
So is the Nuarl N6 Pro that better sounding than the L2P?
Is it worth it for me to buy them? Or just stick with my L2P
All comments appreciated 
Thanks


----------



## Luchyres

13gsc13 said:


> Good day
> I don’t need anc or pass thru
> only looking for excellent sound
> I’m 62 and have slight hearing loss
> ...


Imho, yes. I felt the l2p were very compressed/peaky at the midrange crossover, but the Nuarl's seem to excel at providing quality tonality that I believe will suit the range of country music vocals quite well. Personally, I like a bassier sound so I got the N6 non pro, and I believe you'd be happy with the non-pro as well.


----------



## NMSX

Okay I wanted to pull the trigger on the Nuarl N6 pro but I don’t find any place to buy them under 220-230€ after shipping lol 
I’m based in Spain so I need international shipping available. Amazon pre paid customs plus shipping are way too much.
Could you please tell me where to purchase them? Send me a pm if posting links to shops isn’t allowed.

Thanks!


----------



## jasonb

I've had a Lypertek Tevi since March and still like them a lot. I switched phones recently and for whatever reason they sound better with a Pixel 3a than they do with a OnePlus 7T. It's definitely a noticeable difference. Only real difference is that on the 7T they were connected using "true Wireless stereo plus" but the 3a doesn't support that, and just connects to the Tevi using regular aptx. On the 3a everything just sounds more clear. They were also a bit buggy on the 7T, but IDK why. Only thing I wish for would be the option for an ambient mode or audio passthrough or whatever you want to call it. I've been using Comply tips on these and enjoy them a lot.


----------



## bronco1015

jasonb said:


> I've had a Lypertek Tevi since March and still like them a lot. I switched phones recently and for whatever reason they sound better with a Pixel 3a than they do with a OnePlus 7T. It's definitely a noticeable difference. Only real difference is that on the 7T they were connected using "true Wireless stereo plus" but the 3a doesn't support that, and just connects to the Tevi using regular aptx. On the 3a everything just sounds more clear. They were also a bit buggy on the 7T, but IDK why. Only thing I wish for would be the option for an ambient mode or audio passthrough or whatever you want to call it. I've been using Comply tips on these and enjoy them a lot.


The  Qualcom 670 chip in the 3A doesn't support TWS plus. At least they're working better for you though. You could always leave the one currently paired in the case and pair the other to the phone, that way they work together when they're supposed to and you can use them in mono when you need to as well.


----------



## jasonb (Jun 1, 2020)

bronco1015 said:


> The  Qualcom 670 chip in the 3A doesn't support TWS plus. At least they're working better for you though. You could always leave the one currently paired in the case and pair the other to the phone, that way they work together when they're supposed to and you can use them in mono when you need to as well.



I'm aware that the 670 doesn't support it. If anything, I would have expected the Tevi to sound better with a phone that supports tws+ though. It's kind of strange to me that they sound noticeably better on the 3a. I thought tws+ was supposed to be the superior codec. On the 7T they almost sounded a bit bloated in the bass, with the 3a they definitely don't sound bass heavy. I use no EQ with them on either phone, and have been using the same tips and same music app. My ES100 seems to sound the same on both phones. My car stereo seems to sound the same with both as well. ES100 uses LDAC, car is just SBC.

As for the phone itself, I prefer using the little $279 "mid-range" 3a over the giant $599 "flagship" 7T. The 3a just does everything right for such a low price and for what I do with a phone I don't need 8GB of RAM and a Snapdragon 855+.

My last few phones were a Galaxy S9+, then a 1+ 6T, then a Pixel 3a, then a 1+ 7T, now another Pixel 3a.


----------



## bronco1015

jasonb said:


> I'm aware that the 670 doesn't support it. If anything, I would have expected the Tevi to sound better with a phone that supports tws+ though. It's kind of strange to me that they sound noticeably better on the 3a. I thought tws+ was supposed to be the superior codec. On the 7T they almost sounded a bit bloated in the bass, with the 3a they definitely don't sound bass heavy. I use no EQ with them on either phone, and have been using the same tips and same music app. My ES100 seems to sound the same on both phones. My car stereo seems to sound the same with both as well. ES100 uses LDAC, car is just SBC.
> 
> As for the phone itself, I prefer using the little $279 "mid-range" 3a over the giant $599 "flagship" 7T. The 3a just does everything right for such a low price and for what I do with a phone I don't need 8GB of RAM and a Snapdragon 855+.
> 
> My last few phones were a Galaxy S9+, then a 1+ 6T, then a Pixel 3a, then a 1+ 7T, now another Pixel 3a.


Totally agree on the phone. i payed less than $500 for my V40 and wouldnlt have payed mor than $500 for it. Super happy with it. But if i needed a phone right now, the 3a would be on my shortlist.I thought that twsplus was just an add on if you will. didnlt think it was a codec. But what you shared proves the point that it's all about how a codec is implemented in a device.


----------



## jasonb (Jun 1, 2020)

bronco1015 said:


> Totally agree on the phone. i payed less than $500 for my V40 and wouldnlt have payed mor than $500 for it. Super happy with it. But if i needed a phone right now, the 3a would be on my shortlist.I thought that twsplus was just an add on if you will. didnlt think it was a codec. But what you shared proves the point that it's all about how a codec is implemented in a device.



Maybe it's not really considered a "codec", idk. It's probably just a more advanced form of aptx. It was super stable and never dropped out on the 7T, but it was buggy to pair the Tevi to that phone, and there was an issue where the volume would be stuck at max every time you connected them to the phone and you actually had to switch audio outputs, then switch back to be able to control the volume. Also if you tried changing the volume with the buttons on the buds themselves it would only change the volume on one of the two buds, so the whole combination of the Tevi and the 7T was very buggy.

I replaced the Galaxy Buds with the Tevi because they did sound better to me, but they sound even better on the 3a and have no weird bugs or issues. With the 3a you just put the Tevi's in your ears, press play and they play at the same volume as the last time you had them connected and enjoy. No weird bugs.

So idk if TWS+ is just buggy, or if the TWS+ implementation on the 7T is just bad, or if it was the Tevi's fault, but it wasn't a good pairing. Even the high end Pixel phones like the Pixel 4 don't support TWS+ even though they have the right Qualcomm chip for it, so maybe Google just knows that it's buggy and left support out.

On the topic of the 3a. It supports LDAC and with the Sony music center app installed you can force the 990kbps option. The 3a has a headphone jack, although it's nothing special at all like the LG's it still has one unlike most phones now days. It also supports USB-OTG and works with DAC's and DAC dongles like the Meizu pro, so there is nothing stopping the 3a from being an audiophile device, maybe except only being 64GB. I stream everything with Tidal though, so storage isn't an issue for me.


----------



## Canabuc

New Buds plus update to improve ambient sound and other things.

Haven't tested the ancient sound but listening to some music in bed now and swear they sound a touch louder and a bit more spacious then before.


----------



## DrumSeb

clerkpalmer said:


> Off topic but how does the cl2 compare to the i3? As for tws, if you want high end sq, try some iems with the bt20s adapters.  You have to find a set that is efficient and matched properly to the bt20s but I've heard some pretty good combos. A good efficient 100 chi fi iem matched to a bt20s  is pretty excellent sq wise. My tfz no3 and bt20s are awesome.


Legend X and bt20s is pretty excellent also.. Pairing with my Cayin N6ii or even with Apple Watch 4... It sound great and the connection is very strong.
But i have a Old Westone Es5 custom, and the noise floor is too much...But it sound better then my Mee Bt cable.. more full and better bass.


----------



## assassin10000

DrumSeb said:


> Legend X and bt20s is pretty excellent also.. Pairing with my Cayin N6ii or even with Apple Watch 4... It sound great and the connection is very strong.
> But i have a Old Westone Es5 custom, and the noise floor is too much...But it sound better then my Mee Bt cable.. more full and better bass.



You'd probably have much better luck with the BT20 for high sensitivity IEM's like Westones. The gain and therefore the noise floor is significantly lower. Just no APT-X and 5-6 hour battery life vs 7-9+.


----------



## chinmie

jeffri said:


> Pardon my quarantine hair... it lays flat though, so basically invisible when viewed from the front.



looks funky, in a good way. i thought it would looked weird, but i kinda like it. if only those Samsung beans wasn't announced, this surface buds would be an attractive deal.


----------



## DigDub

Canabuc said:


> New Buds plus update to improve ambient sound and other things.
> 
> Haven't tested the ancient sound but listening to some music in bed now and swear they sound a touch louder and a bit more spacious then before.


The latest update also enables the app to see the case's and left/right buds battery life now. The previous update couldn't see the battery life of individual buds. The sound after the update is a lot closer to the original galaxy buds.


----------



## Canabuc (Jun 2, 2020)

DigDub said:


> The latest update also enables the app to see the case's and left/right buds battery life now. The previous update couldn't see the battery life of individual buds. The sound after the update is a lot closer to the original galaxy buds.


Damn want to revert the update. Bass is weaker and my Dolby Atmos settings don't seem to work toggling on and off do nothing to sound.

Also it did nothing to the case and  bud battery displayfor me


----------



## DigDub

Canabuc said:


> Damn want to revert the update. Bass is weaker and my Dolby Atmos settings don't seem to work toggling on and off do nothing to sound.
> 
> Also it did nothing to the case and  bud battery displayfor me


You'd have to put one or both buds into the case to be able to see the charge level of the case. I'm quite liking the sound quality of the latest update.


----------



## Canabuc

See no 2 buds showing


----------



## Canabuc

Weird went into manager devices. Reset and added back now have both.  Think Dolby working now too. Hmm weird.


----------



## DigDub

Canabuc said:


> See no 2 buds showing


Did you update the app version to the latest as well?


----------



## voicemaster

I didn't notice any changes to the sound, but I notice the change on ambiance mode sound.


----------



## assassin10000

voicemaster said:


> I didn't notice any changes to the sound, but I notice the change on ambiance mode sound.



What did you notice? I don't use ambient on mine much, so I couldn't say.


----------



## DigDub

Didn't notice any change in ambiance mode too.


----------



## Canabuc

I was on same wearables app version as you but just got promoted for new update. That said resetting my buds and re pairing seems to have mostly fixed things. Sound is a bit more wide but there is a slight bass decrease to me though I seemed to be in minority who felt the bass was very good on my pair compared to another pair I bought for family.


----------



## hpnut

NMSX said:


> Okay I wanted to pull the trigger on the Nuarl N6 pro but I don’t find any place to buy them under 220-230€ after shipping lol
> I’m based in Spain so I need international shipping available. Amazon pre paid customs plus shipping are way too much.
> Could you please tell me where to purchase them? Send me a pm if posting links to shops isn’t allowed.
> 
> Thanks!


I would like to know this as well. No seller in Europe based on the dealer list on their site.


----------



## NMSX

hpnut said:


> I would like to know this as well. No seller in Europe based on the dealer list on their site.




It's frustrating because after reading a lot of reviews I finally said "okay, I'll give up Amazon returns, warranty and everything else to buy them" but what I found is an almost impossible task. In the US they're available for 162$ but they do not ship overseas. Shipment + taxes are like 230€ from a Singapore-based shop that had to stimate shipping rates because they don't ship overseas for the moment. 

I asked Nuarl via mail, I'll update you in case I get a response. I'm also wondering if I could get a pair sent to me directly from Japan from a official reseller, but their english level tends to be bad and I don't think any of them would take the trouble.


----------



## McCol

Anybody using Jabra 75t with an android handset? How is the aac playback?

I keep reading stuff saying that aac is poor on android,  I've ordered the 75t already but just curious as to what people have found with android


----------



## McCol

Delete - double post


----------



## voicemaster

DigDub said:


> Didn't notice any change in ambiance mode too.


It is better in distinguish voice and other noise.


----------



## Sam L (Jun 2, 2020)

*Salvaging my Haylou GT1's*

I love the GT1 for their pocketability -- a stark contrast to the xm3 and echo bud cases. But to my ears the GT1's have so much bass bloat that I've had to relegate them to exclusively to podcasts.      My solution is a bit involving, so I post this here more to inspire other solutions; or for those that have a LG V-series phone, you can benefit from what I did without too much effort or cost.

Here's what I used: LG V60, Dayton Audio IMM-6 calibrated mic, 5/16" (8mm inner diameter) tubing, power equalizer app.

Using the IMM-6 mic plugged into the V60, here's the unadjusted graph of the GT1's: (the red line is an approximation of the Harman Target)






Power Equalizer settings




result: (I noticed I can't really correct sub-65hz and beyond 8k because of the quality of the coupling and lack of truly sensitive/calibrated equipment).




Now, the GT1's are much, much more listenable for music!


----------



## Sam L

oops.... here's a shot of the v60 with mic.


----------



## VICosPhi

McCol said:


> Anybody using Jabra 75t with an android handset? How is the aac playback?
> 
> I keep reading stuff saying that aac is poor on android,  I've ordered the 75t already but just curious as to what people have found with android



I am using it and I think AAC works fine, do not hear a noticeable difference between AAC and APTX.


----------



## georgelai57

NMSX said:


> It's frustrating because after reading a lot of reviews I finally said "okay, I'll give up Amazon returns, warranty and everything else to buy them" but what I found is an almost impossible task. In the US they're available for 162$ but they do not ship overseas. Shipment + taxes are like 230€ from a Singapore-based shop that had to stimate shipping rates because they don't ship overseas for the moment.
> 
> I asked Nuarl via mail, I'll update you in case I get a response. I'm also wondering if I could get a pair sent to me directly from Japan from a official reseller, but their english level tends to be bad and I don't think any of them would take the trouble.


Shipment to which country?. I bought two TWS from Amazon US and shipment via a third party US company, HopShopGo, was USD22 to me in Singapore. This was pre-pandemic.


----------



## bduckyy

Looking for a second opinion. I'm looking to get the fiil t1x but they look a bit big. I have the anbes/kissral, bose soundsports free, and tranya t3 as references. The anbes are my favorite in terms of comfort. They just disappear in my ears. The tranya are big and while not uncomfortable, they are noticeable in my ears. Anyways, I'm looking input on how comfortable the fiils are and any other recommendations for sub $50. I've looked at scarbir leaderboard and the bomaker sifi 1 looked to fit the bill but I think they've stopped making them for the sifi 2.


----------



## FYLegend

Canabuc said:


> New Buds plus update to improve ambient sound and other things.
> 
> Haven't tested the ancient sound but listening to some music in bed now and swear they sound a touch louder and a bit more spacious then before.


I'm disappointed. The ambient sound is clearer, but still devoid of any bass since the mid-April update, and it still does that annoying panning when exposed to a loud noise. If I'm washing my hands, playing the piano or have music playing off a speaker in the background, the volume fades in and out.

Also, there's no change to SBC output. Someone has told me that the Bluetooth quality sounds good through an Aorus Z390 so it's possible some chips are able to force a higher bitrate, but my ASUS Zenbook 15 with Intel chip and my Samsung Exynos Note 9 with a Murata chip both output low quality when using SBC.


----------



## Mouseman

bduckyy said:


> Looking for a second opinion. I'm looking to get the fiil t1x but they look a bit big. I have the anbes/kissral, bose soundsports free, and tranya t3 as references. The anbes are my favorite in terms of comfort. They just disappear in my ears. The tranya are big and while not uncomfortable, they are noticeable in my ears. Anyways, I'm looking input on how comfortable the fiils are and any other recommendations for sub $50. I've looked at scarbir leaderboard and the bomaker sifi 1 looked to fit the bill but I think they've stopped making them for the sifi 2.


The fiils are some of my smallest buds. They are about as big as the Mpows, but not as "tall" in terms of sticking out of your ear. I don't have any of the same buds you list to compare, but the t1x fits fully inside my ear.


----------



## voicemaster

FYLegend said:


> I'm disappointed. The ambient sound is clearer, but still devoid of any bass since the mid-April update, and it still does that annoying panning when exposed to a loud noise. If I'm washing my hands, playing the piano or have music playing off a speaker in the background, the volume fades in and out.
> 
> Also, there's no change to SBC output. Someone has told me that the Bluetooth quality sounds good through an Aorus Z390 so it's possible some chips are able to force a higher bitrate, but my ASUS Zenbook 15 with Intel chip and my Samsung Exynos Note 9 with a Murata chip both output low quality when using SBC.


That panning you experienced is compression to prevent the sound from clipping. I am using samsung galaxy s20+ and the "scaleable" SBC sounds good. If connected to my PC, the sound is kind of grainy.


----------



## FYLegend

voicemaster said:


> That panning you experienced is compression to prevent the sound from clipping. I am using samsung galaxy s20+ and the "scaleable" SBC sounds good. If connected to my PC, the sound is kind of grainy.


No, the compression is another issue before the mid-April update. Basically the overall volume of the ambient feed decreases as louder sounds are heard and it doesn't restart unless you take out the buds and re-insert them. This isn't always noticeable but when I play the piano with the buds, I can barely hear my piano after about a minute (unless I set it to Extra High but it still decreases). 

I have the Note 9 and AAC and Scalable both sound good. However, another user told me that on OnePlus phones AAC is limited to 160kbps.

The mid-April update introduced a wind-reduction algorithm in response to people complaining about wind noise. It works well for this purpose, but when you play loud sounds or certain streaming noises (like water running), it causes phasing issues and the feed pans left and right. They also seemed to have decreased the lower frequencies of the mic feed to reduce wind noise.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

NMSX said:


> I read yesterday that Samsung bought AKG etc and now I find more reasonable that the quality is above what I expected from them. Thanks!
> 
> 
> My opinion/knowledge are based on many reviews I read on most websites and few YouTube reviews. But in the end I think that this kind of forums are the best source to find detailed unbiased info. Being honest I enjoy some bass, but I prefer what you may call ‘audiophile’ profile.
> ...



Yeah, the *GBuds+ are made by AKG* and they sound great, the more I use them the more I like them. Because of the transparency mode, the true wireless buds that I use the most are (1) the *MTW* with my MacBook Pro 16" where I leave the MTW case plugged in all the time, and (2) my second pair of *MTW* or *GBuds*+ are used most with my iPhone and iPad. 

The GBuds+ transparency or ambient mode is louder than the MTW, so they're a little more versatile at times; *However, in louder environments the GBuds+ mics get overloaded or overwhelmed and do weird noises, so the MTW are better for those times*. If I was in a loud performance, like when I went to a show at Disney Animal Kingdom last October, I would pick the MTW to block to too loud music; especially since the sound of the MTW microphones are more full-range and the GBuds+ are more voice oriented.

I like the *Jabra 75t* when EQ'd and their comfort, while they have a loud a transparency mode; but they amplify the white noise or hiss too. In that case, the only thing they have over the AirPods Pro is the fit and retention in my ears, while the APP transparency and extremely quiet ANC mode beat out the Jabra.

I have not been using my *N6P* due to no transparency mode and being less comfortable than my MTW, GBuds+ or Jabra 75t. The *LA2* sound very good, but again with no transparency mode they don't get used much.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

assassin10000 said:


> You'd probably have much better luck with the BT20 for high sensitivity IEM's like Westones. The gain and therefore the noise floor is significantly lower. Just no APT-X and 5-6 hour battery life vs 7-9+.


Blutarsky is using the BT20s that I gifted to him with with Westone ES3 customs, and has no issues with sensitivity. It's a warmer darker more veiled sound than the Westone BT V2 cable, so it's good that his ES3 are not dark sounding.


----------



## Canabuc

Ok my Gbuds plus sound great again. Not sure what happened after the update but initially it was as if the sound profile reset and normal dynamic etc didn’t sound different nor did activating Dolby atmos.
well I reset the buds and repaired them with no change but then a new wareable app update came out the next day.
Listened to them last night and sounded better than ever.

soundstage wider.
better instrument separation
Missing bass was back. It’s not boomy or muddy but tight with deep extension. Very musical now.
love these buds. My L2P are more powerful sounding with stronger bass but the kids and voices sound so good on the Gbuds+!


----------



## Sandifop

“If you have to ask...” then you will be fine going wireless. If you know, then you know Bluetooth is not ready.


----------



## jant71

We got a T2000 unbox...


Of course with UV and cable the case is pretty huge and so clumsy looking the way things come out and go in.


----------



## BigZ12 (Jun 3, 2020)

hifi80sman said:


> Yeah, total BS.  They can easily find something by address, payment, or likely any other number of ways if they really tried to look.  I think I may now have to back out of any future offerings from this company!  That'll teach them!


Just wanted to say that Lypertek have good service after all.
At first I didn't think they acknowledge my problem with the battery draining of the charging case.
But to my joy, I actually received a brand new case AND buds today, with DHL Express.


----------



## Tavleen Suri

bduckyy said:


> Looking for a second opinion. I'm looking to get the fiil t1x but they look a bit big. I have the anbes/kissral, bose soundsports free, and tranya t3 as references. The anbes are my favorite in terms of comfort. They just disappear in my ears. The tranya are big and while not uncomfortable, they are noticeable in my ears. Anyways, I'm looking input on how comfortable the fiils are and any other recommendations for sub $50. I've looked at scarbir leaderboard and the bomaker sifi 1 looked to fit the bill but I think they've stopped making them for the sifi 2.


Out of the three which one would you is the best when it comes to sound quality ??


----------



## hifi80sman

Look at these knock offs.  They do look cool!


----------



## clerkpalmer

Canabuc said:


> Ok my Gbuds plus sound great again. Not sure what happened after the update but initially it was as if the sound profile reset and normal dynamic etc didn’t sound different nor did activating Dolby atmos.
> well I reset the buds and repaired them with no change but then a new wareable app update came out the next day.
> Listened to them last night and sounded better than ever.
> 
> ...


Are these worth 150? Intrigued since I have an s20.


----------



## voicemaster

clerkpalmer said:


> Are these worth 150? Intrigued since I have an s20.


For me, it is worth it. With "wavelet" EQ, the sound is even better. The new update make the ambiance noise really good. I used it this morning at my workplace and I opened the water faucet at full blast and I couldn't hear the compression on the mic like before update. Also, the sound is more natural and less hiss than before. I am quite impressed. 
Here is my sound setting on wavelet


I also use dynamic EQ on the galaxy wearable app and turned on Dolby Atmos on the phone.


----------



## clerkpalmer

voicemaster said:


> For me, it is worth it. With "wavelet" EQ, the sound is even better. The new update make the ambiance noise really good. I used it this morning at my workplace and I opened the water faucet at full blast and I couldn't hear the compression on the mic like before update. Also, the sound is more natural and less hiss than before. I am quite impressed.
> Here is my sound setting on wavelet
> 
> I also use dynamic EQ on the galaxy wearable app and turned on Dolby Atmos on the phone.


So the wavelet app works together with the built in eq profiles?


----------



## voicemaster

clerkpalmer said:


> So the wavelet app works together with the built in eq profiles?


Yeah. Don't think the AutoEQ in Wavelet app based on "normal" EQ setting on galaxy wearable app. I think it is based on "Dynamic" EQ setting.


----------



## clerkpalmer

voicemaster said:


> Yeah. Don't think the AutoEQ in Wavelet app based on "normal" EQ setting on galaxy wearable app. I think it is based on "Dynamic" EQ setting.


How would you compare them to your n6 pro in terms of sq? The best buy blue color is calling me.


----------



## voicemaster

clerkpalmer said:


> How would you compare them to your n6 pro in terms of sq? The best buy blue color is calling me.


The N6 has a more fuller/thick and forward to its vocal. Cymbal sounds more neutral on the N6 while the Gbuds+ sounds more edgy.


----------



## voicemaster

I use GBuds+ strictly for portable use. I use my N6p mainly at home.


----------



## clerkpalmer

voicemaster said:


> I use GBuds+ strictly for portable use. I use my N6p mainly at home.


So are you basically saying the n6 is better for sq? I have APP and MTW2 and L2P already so trying to figure if the gbuds will be redundant or be a nice addition. Tx.


----------



## Canabuc

clerkpalmer said:


> Are these worth 150? Intrigued since I have an s20.


I got mine on sale forn180 Canadian so about 125$ if you have Samsung phone definitely. Sound great very comfortable. You can charge the case with your phone! It can read out notifications. Ambient sound is great. And the scalable codec Samsung uses is great with the phone and buds combo. Battery great.too..onky thing missing is ANC but truthfully passive isolation plenty good for almost all situations.


----------



## Canabuc

clerkpalmer said:


> So are you basically saying the n6 is better for sq? I have APP and MTW2 and L2P already so trying to figure if the gbuds will be redundant or be a nice addition. Tx.


I love my L2P for pure sound quality. But buds + much more comfortable and ambient sound makes more practical if you know you will need to talk to someone or hear other sounds and not have to keep removing an earbuds to do so.

Some songs prefer buds + over L2P as they do mids and vocals a bit better but L2P when eq'd right sound like an over ear headphone. Buds plus are more all around due to other features and comfort with smaller case.....


----------



## FYLegend

Canabuc said:


> Ok my Gbuds plus sound great again. Not sure what happened after the update but initially it was as if the sound profile reset and normal dynamic etc didn’t sound different nor did activating Dolby atmos.
> well I reset the buds and repaired them with no change but then a new wareable app update came out the next day.
> Listened to them last night and sounded better than ever.
> 
> ...


Yeah I feel like the sound is smoother and less fatiguing, even in Dynamic mode, although sometimes I wish drums hit harder as they did before.


----------



## oasis00 (Jun 4, 2020)

I am looking in either the Fiil TX1 and Shanling MTW BA. Which one will be the better one in terms of sound and build?

Wired wise I m using TRN V90 in case it helps


----------



## Aevum

I got the MTW BA, Get the FiiL T1X

The MTW100 sounds thin sometimes and the controlls are meh, also kills me that i cant control volume, i have to have my phone at 90% to get decent volume and i dont tend to boom out when it comes to volume, My sony A35 tends to hover at around 50/120


----------



## oasis00

Aevum said:


> I got the MTW BA, Get the FiiL T1X
> 
> The MTW100 sounds thin sometimes and the controlls are meh, also kills me that i cant control volume, i have to have my phone at 90% to get decent volume and i dont tend to boom out when it comes to volume, My sony A35 tends to hover at around 50/120



Noted. I read abt the Fiil T1X having driver flex. It is a common issue?


----------



## HeadphoneAddict (Jun 4, 2020)

oasis00 said:


> Noted. I read abt the Fiil T1X having driver flex. It is a common issue?



Driver flex on the FIIL T1X was bad for me, right side worse than left, which could bind up the driver and prevent it from working properly until I got my ear canal pressure equalized.

Changing to some different tips helps, with olive shaped tips va the mushroom shaped tips that came with them. It’s still a little bit of an issue but with much less fiddling to get it right now. The T1X sound hits way above its price if you can get them to work and don’t mind the lack of transparency mode. The app works good For EQ but I didn’t need EQ.

Silicone Replacement Ear Tips Earbuds Eargels for Mpow,Senso,Zeus,Otium,Hussar,Let... https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07P5FZW7J/ref=cm_sw_r_sms_c_api_i_SHm2EbM1DM0Y5

(edit Siri heard me say T1S and I was dictating T1X.)


----------



## hifihov

Hi All,

Looking for a TWS pair for calls only (good mic in quiet and crowded situations), as have cabled IEMs for music.

All the good ones seem big and protrude out of the ear a lot, so looking for the best pair up to £100, that are good with voice calls, have active cancellation (if possible), and don’t protrude.

I saw the *FIIL T1X *gets good reviews on the scarbir list but can’t find in stock in the UK at the moment, and a 20 to 40 day shipping on Aliexpress. What alternatives can you recommend? I read the *Shanling MTW100 Balanced Armature* is great for sound but the microphones aren’t good. The *Cambridge Audios* looks as though they stick out a lot too.

Saw the *Tronsmart Onyx Neo* recommended elsewhere too, and see there’s a newer *Onyx Free *version but it seems bigger.

Thanks!


----------



## duo8

Just picked up the Buds+. I remember crinacle mentioned the upper mids can get a bit hot, but I'm not feeling that, at all. In fact I feel the mids are a bit recessed.
These are the only IEMs I've used recently that don't pierce my ears without sounding too dull.


----------



## thrgk

Are the Buds+ larger than the FIIL T1X?


----------



## Sam L

oasis00 said:


> Noted. I read abt the Fiil T1X having driver flex. It is a common issue?


Yeah, I think the driver flex is pretty common. I bought 3 pairs (2 gifts, 1 for myself) and all of them had driver flex. While I love the Fiil's I'm not sure I would recommend them at their regular price. At $34.99, they are a fantastic deal.


----------



## NMSX

Hi, again!


After a couple of days thinking about the Nuarl N6 Pro, *I finally purchased a pair of Galaxy Buds +* for 131€ on Amazon.es

I updated the firmware etc to the latest one and started using them with my iPhone 11 Pro Max, and after few minutes testing the presets I ended up quickly in Dynamic EQ setup. The other options sounded like pure garbage lol.

Then, 4-5 hours of music. I tried like 40-50 songs I’ve listened a thousand times with different cans to test the buds. Based on how I know where and when should I expect certain reactions from the driver, having a more or less trained ear I should say that *it’s not that they’re bad, but they’re not good either*. 

*The overall sound, specially bass is muffled and sounds edgy.* I'm not a basshead but it's insufficient no matter how you see it. The buds struggle to perform sub bass, and while the bass is liquid, not punchy, not bad, the amount needed in the track to make them work is absolutely ridiculous. Also you need to have *a 65%+ volume to move the thing properly which is above more than average for what I used to have*. 

*The treble is nice*, nothing wrong with that, perform well with vocals, videos/podcast and it’s also ok with some acoustic music (obviously I don’t expect audiophile performance). 

*The soundstage is weird* as ****, inconsistent. While they have a decent wide one it seems like it’s somehow emulated through some kind of software effect or whatever, cause certain spots they decide to trim parts in a strange way. It's my first time with a BT audio device and maybe this is an usual problem but, after hearing same track with different cans one after the other is even more obvious. This is noticeable with orchestras and music with a lot of different layers. 

*They are comfortabl*e, but the tactile controls seems to be resistive and not capacitive because they play / pause the music just while laying on the bed or the couch, which is horrible. I mean, if you’re going to do that I just prefer buttons. 

*Overall, the experience it's not that bad*, but only if they costed like... ¿60$? LOL Not at 150$ price tag (or 120, or even 100). 

*At this point I'm thinking in pulling the trigger on the Nuarl N6 Pro and take a leap of faith due the lack of actual reviews / comparisons.*  My ideal profile is the one of Beyer DT 770, plain and a little fun, and maybe I'm obssesed with the Nuarl because I read somewhere that they were like the DT 770's and the fact that I can't get em easily makes them more appealing hah.  



*TLDR; I was looking for a TWS decent audio earbuds. Purchased Galaxy Buds+ and I’m disappointed. Any suggestion on other options with better quality? I don’t consider Jabra Elite due to pairing problems. *


----------



## voicemaster

duo8 said:


> Just picked up the Buds+. I remember crinacle mentioned the upper mids can get a bit hot, but I'm not feeling that, at all. In fact I feel the mids are a bit recessed.
> These are the only IEMs I've used recently that don't pierce my ears without sounding too dull.


Their new update might have changed the sound a little bit.


----------



## voicemaster

thrgk said:


> Are the Buds+ larger than the FIIL T1X?


The earbuds are about the same size but different shape. Buds+ is more roundish while t1x is more oval like mpow m5. The gbuds+ case is way smaller than t1x case and more ergonomics shape wise.


----------



## voicemaster (Jun 4, 2020)

NMSX said:


> Hi, again!
> 
> 
> After a couple of days thinking about the Nuarl N6 Pro, *I finally purchased a pair of Galaxy Buds +* for 131€ on Amazon.es
> ...


One problem with your argument and its a fatal one too. *iPhone 11 pro max. *
SBC and AAC on gbuds+ sounds bad. You need samsung phone or android phone with custom ROM.
The Nuarl N6 Pro is better than gbuds+ in every sound quality category.


----------



## NMSX

voicemaster said:


> One problem with your argument and its a fatal one too. *iPhone 11 pro max. *
> SBC and AAC on gbuds+ sounds bad. You need samsung phone or android phone with custom ROM.
> The Nuarl N6 Pro is better than gbuds+ in every sound quality category.



Damn. I mean, I prefer an iPhone over Android so it is what it is, until now I've only used wired headphones so... no problems in that regard.
I was thinking about ordering a pair of WH MX3's as a portable headphones too, may I face that problem too? And the Nuarl? :< 

I don't understand why they make earphones that doesn't work properly with the codecs of the most sold smartphone brand in the world (kinda of lol). What a cruel world.


Thanks for your patience!


----------



## hmscott

NMSX said:


> Damn. I mean, I prefer an iPhone over Android so it is what it is, until now I've only used wired headphones so... no problems in that regard.
> I was thinking about ordering a pair of WH MX3's as a portable headphones too, may I face that problem too? And the Nuarl? :<
> 
> I don't understand why they make earphones that doesn't work properly with the codecs of the most sold smartphone brand in the world (kinda of lol). What a cruel world.
> ...


I didn't listen with an iPhone with my Buds+, but the way I heard it described is that Android has the crummy SBC and AAC codecs - Apple's codecs do just fine with the Buds+, so nothing to worry about.

What there is to worry about is fiddling around with the touch and edge touch controls on those darned things... that's why I returned them.  They sounded fine, but it was annoying to try to adjust them in my ear and have them take commands from my "touches".

You and many others might love them just fine, but they didn't "gel" with my needs.

And, my other choice to try was the Momentum 2 TWS's, which also sounded fine, but also had the touch control willies.  And, those were $362 all in, so back they went too.

I've got some KZ S2's coming this month, or so it seems possible at least, hopefully those will be serviceable at their low price.  Otherwise I'm sticking with IEM's + BTR5 / BTR3k


----------



## Luke Skywalker

Sam L said:


> For harman target fans, here are my 1000xm3 settings.
> 
> 
> 
> The result:


that's really interesting, thanks for sharing that!  I wish I could figure out what Sony EQ settings would make them sound exactly like the N6 Pro, or as close as possible.  That's probably a pipe dream though


----------



## Luke Skywalker

jeffri said:


> Pardon my quarantine hair... it lays flat though, so basically invisible when viewed from the front.


Had to give you a "like" for the quarantine hair, that gave me a good laugh... I've been buzzing my hair (what's left of it) for years, so I haven't had your problem   I work with a dude who looks like Shooter McGavin from Happy Gilmore - looks like he spends hours styling his hair every day.  We had a video meeting the other day and he looked really haggard / homeless


----------



## Luke Skywalker

DigDub said:


> You'd have to put one or both buds into the case to be able to see the charge level of the case. I'm quite liking the sound quality of the latest update.


Ok to preface this, I'm very OCD... Is it just me or is "Equaliser" spelled wrong in that picture?


----------



## Luke Skywalker

voicemaster said:


> One problem with your argument and its a fatal one too. *iPhone 11 pro max. *
> SBC and AAC on gbuds+ sounds bad. You need samsung phone or android phone with custom ROM.
> The Nuarl N6 Pro is better than gbuds+ in every sound quality category.


ya dude, I have the N6 Pro's and I LOVE THEM...  Even compared to my JH Lola's and Audeze cans, they sound very very good.


----------



## voicemaster

Luke Skywalker said:


> Ok to preface this, I'm very OCD... Is it just me or is "Equaliser" spelled wrong in that picture?


Different language maybe. Mine is correct


----------



## jant71

Luke Skywalker said:


> Ok to preface this, I'm very OCD... Is it just me or is "Equaliser" spelled wrong in that picture?



Just you. No "s" in equalizer. Look...


----------



## Canabuc

NMSX said:


> Hi, again!
> 
> 
> After a couple of days thinking about the Nuarl N6 Pro, *I finally purchased a pair of Galaxy Buds +* for 131€ on Amazon.es
> ...



If you read my.posts from much earlier o had 2 pairs of buds plus. 1 with better bass than the other. 
The one I kept the bass actually is very.good bass punchy and sub bass nearly.on par with the L2P.  Where it lacks in bass is more the mid bass is not as boomy so while it doesn't intrude on the mids it might feel a bit lacking in certain tracks.


----------



## NMSX

Canabuc said:


> If you read my.posts from much earlier o had 2 pairs of buds plus. 1 with better bass than the other.
> The one I kept the bass actually is very.good bass punchy and sub bass nearly.on par with the L2P.  Where it lacks in bass is more the mid bass is not as boomy so while it doesn't intrude on the mids it might feel a bit lacking in certain tracks.



But they were purchased and same exact firmware? That's weird. So it depends on the unit? lol


----------



## Sam L

Luke Skywalker said:


> that's really interesting, thanks for sharing that!  I wish I could figure out what Sony EQ settings would make them sound exactly like the N6 Pro, or as close as possible.  That's probably a pipe dream though


Has anyone seen a graph of the N6 pros?


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

NMSX said:


> Hi, again!
> 
> 
> After a couple of days thinking about the Nuarl N6 Pro, *I finally purchased a pair of Galaxy Buds +* for 131€ on Amazon.es
> ...



There are a bunch of N6P impressions posted here, from the most prominent posters, but this thread is so big that they get lost in the storm. I got these dates below based on photos I took for the reviews, but they review might have been posted within a day or two of those dates.

I think I posted some N6P impressions around 5/2/20 (the pair that arrived 4/30/20 were defective), and some Jabra 75t impressions around 5/14/20, and some Sony WF-SP800N impressions around 5/21/20, if you scroll back to those dates. In the last one I summarized some my experiences. I also posted a full review of the Sennheiser MTW in the review section around 4/21/20. 

The N6P sound better than most of my true wireless, but I only use them at home when I can tolerate the higher passive noise blocking without a transparency mode (the lack of which makes phone calls without removing an earpiece harder for me). When I need to be out and about with a transparency mode to hear my surroundings I had to use my MTW or AirPods Pro, where the MTW sound better but the APP transparency mode is better, so a conundrum. I started looking for one that could do everything.

Based on sound, and IF I had to get rid of most of my TW then I'd keep the MTW for the laid back and punchy sound with transparency mode available, and the N6P for more critical listening. I like the GBuds+ and Jabra 75t for their transparency mode and phone calls, but they are not the best for music. 

I get better quality bass with my GBuds+ than Jabra (NOT muffled) and both are good for phones calls. With a good seal the GBuds+ bass is deep and strong for me, nothing like you describe. But the GBuds+ treble is sometimes a little sharp and the frequency response is somewhat v-shaped which is helped with the dynamic EQ but that makes the treble worse. 

At least the Jabra 75t are easier to EQ in the app with 5 sliders, where I turn down the lowest bass, turn up the lower midrange, leave the midrange flat, turn up the lower treble, and turn down the high treble - the curve looks like a 2-hump wave or an "M" shape EQ curve. The transparency mode in the Buds+ was doing weird things, so I am waiting to see how the update fixes that, but while the Jabra transparency mode has more hiss it's still useable with a lot of pop music that drowns out the hiss (no hiss with transparency off).

I don't have to EQ the N6P at all, and they fit my ear canals to tightly that no sound can get in and they seal well. But then when I'm talking on a phone call I hear my own voice resonate inside my head and I can't tell how loud I am actually talking in the phone call - So I either try to talk quieter than my voice will allow and it cracks, or talk louder so that my voice can penetrate through the seal from the outside. 

The GBuds+ and Jabra are more comfortable for me than the N6P because the N6P are larger and tighter. But, if I want comfort I can fall back to my Sennheiser MTW - my only wish with those was to have the transparency mode be just a little louder and I wouldn't have been rolling through different buds to try their features.

Also, I AM UNABLE to use the GBuds+ controls through pressure or laying on them, and must touch them with a finger or body part to activate the buttons - not sure how yours do that laying down.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

clerkpalmer said:


> So are you basically saying the n6 is better for sq? I have APP and MTW2 and L2P already so trying to figure if the gbuds will be redundant or be a nice addition. Tx.



For me my MTW1 is like having a well amplified Sennheiser HD-650, and the N6P is like having a well amplified HD-660s - both good but different, so they cover all the bases. I'm trying to get a MTW2 review sample, but CoVid-19...


----------



## Canabuc

NMSX said:


> But they were purchased and same exact firmware? That's weird. So it depends on the unit? lol


They were both Amazon new orders 2 days apart. Serials showed the one with less bass was slight newer. They were both on same software and firmware. It is why I suspect some people say the bass is good and others say it lacks.  There might be slightly different builds. Maybe the way the drivers are aligned?


----------



## DigDub (Jun 4, 2020)

Luke Skywalker said:


> Ok to preface this, I'm very OCD... Is it just me or is "Equaliser" spelled wrong in that picture?


British vs American spelling. British usually spells with 'z' while American uses 's'. Like apologize vs apologise. I have set my phone to use American English so that I get the $ sign instead of the £ symbol in the gboad shortcut as my country uses $, so that may be the reason why it's spelled with an 's'.


----------



## jasonb

Anyone with the Jabra 75t's comment on the apps built in EQ? Im interested in them but have heard they are pretty bass heavy. Can they be made to sound good and neutral(ish) with the apps EQ? I've specifically read that they have a very strong sub-bass, and a not so strong mid-bass. I wouldn't want to EQ them to the point where there ends up being a big suckout in the mid-bass. 

Basically I really like my Lypertek Tevi's, but am interested in if I can make the 75t sound similar, but i want the option to have an ambient mode/audio passthrough mode with the 75t has.


----------



## TK33 (Jun 4, 2020)

DigDub said:


> British vs American spelling. British usually spells with 'z' while American uses 's'. Like apologize vs apologise. I have set my phone to use American English so that I get the $ sign instead of the £ symbol in the gboad shortcut as my country uses $, so that may be the reason why it's spelled with an 's'.


Interesting...I have never heard that before. I live iin NY and have always spelled it with a "z". The suggestions that pop up when I type on my phone also show "equalizer."

All this talk of the Gbuds+ and MTW2 is giving me the itch again but my MTWs and MW07Go are still working great and still I use them all the time despite being stuck at home for 2 1/2 months now.

If anyone has both, how is the call quality of the Gbud+ vs the MTW?  I am still using my MTWs for calls and find it usable but not that great. Sometimes I just use my wired IEMs as well. I always liked the small size of the Gbuds.

EDIT: I know @HeadphoneAddict mentioned they're good for calls a few posts back, which got me thinking I might "need" to get the GBuds+ for calls since I spend a few hours a day on calls these days. Wondering if it's much better than the MTW.


----------



## voicemaster (Jun 4, 2020)

TK33 said:


> Interesting...I have never heard that before. I live iin NY and have always spelled it with a "z". The suggestions that pop up when I type on my phone also show "equalizer."
> 
> All this talk of the Gbuds+ and MTW2 is giving me the itch again but my MTWs and MW07Go are still working great and still I use them all the time despite being stuck at home for 2 1/2 months now.
> 
> ...


It (Gbud+) is really good apparently and passed the test inside a fully blast fan noise inside commercial kitchen cooler/freezer.

The place where I work has 6 of these fans inside the cooler.


----------



## TK33

voicemaster said:


> It (Gbud+) is really good apparently and passed the test inside a fully blast fan noise inside commercial kitchen cooler/freezer.
> 
> The place where I work has 6 of these fans inside the cooler.




Thanks. I think I will have to check these out.


----------



## DigDub

TK33 said:


> Interesting...I have never heard that before. I live iin NY and have always spelled it with a "z". The suggestions that pop up when I type on my phone also show "equalizer."
> 
> All this talk of the Gbuds+ and MTW2 is giving me the itch again but my MTWs and MW07Go are still working great and still I use them all the time despite being stuck at home for 2 1/2 months now.
> 
> ...


I stay in Singapore, we are taught British English in schools, but English entertainment mainly comes from USA, so both spellings are fine with us.  

I usually look for ebpman reviews for call quality tests. The galaxy buds+ cuts out more ambient noise and is excellent for calls. 


He had reviewed the mtw2 too. The call quality seems ok but I don't think it can be used one sided. I usually use one bud for calls as I like to keep my other ear free during calls.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

jasonb said:


> Anyone with the Jabra 75t's comment on the apps built in EQ? Im interested in them but have heard they are pretty bass heavy. Can they be made to sound good and neutral(ish) with the apps EQ? I've specifically read that they have a very strong sub-bass, and a not so strong mid-bass. I wouldn't want to EQ them to the point where there ends up being a big suckout in the mid-bass.
> 
> Basically I really like my Lypertek Tevi's, but am interested in if I can make the 75t sound similar, but i want the option to have an ambient mode/audio passthrough mode with the 75t has.


You could go back just a few posts from today to see what I had to say about the Jabra 75t EQ. It’s very functional for a 5 band equalizer.


----------



## TK33

DigDub said:


> I stay in Singapore, we are taught British English in schools, but English entertainment mainly comes from USA, so both spellings are fine with us.
> 
> I usually look for ebpman reviews for call quality tests. The galaxy buds+ cuts out more ambient noise and is excellent for calls.
> 
> ...



Thanks. I do the same. I use my MTW one sided for calls (only the right side works by itself). Can't stand talking with something in both ears.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

TK33 said:


> Interesting...I have never heard that before. I live iin NY and have always spelled it with a "z". The suggestions that pop up when I type on my phone also show "equalizer."
> 
> All this talk of the Gbuds+ and MTW2 is giving me the itch again but my MTWs and MW07Go are still working great and still I use them all the time despite being stuck at home for 2 1/2 months now.
> 
> ...



Because I can make the ambient sound during phone calls louder with the Gbuds+, they’re a little better for phone calls than the MTW. On low or medium ambient it isn’t any better, but on the high setting it is.


----------



## TK33

HeadphoneAddict said:


> Because I can make the ambient sound during phone calls louder with the Gbuds+, they’re a little better for phone calls than the MTW. On low or medium ambient it isn’t any better, but on the high setting it is.


Got it. Thanks!


----------



## hmscott

Luke Skywalker said:


> Ok to preface this, I'm very OCD... Is it just me or is "Equaliser" spelled wrong in that picture?


Equaliser and Equalizer - Both are correct.  Same as synthesiser or synthesizer, common variations.


----------



## Toom

Anyone here with Senn MTW2 feel like sharing their EQ setting using the Smartcontrol app?


----------



## BobJS

DigDub said:


> British vs American spelling. British usually spells with 'z' while American uses 's'. Like apologize vs apologise. I have set my phone to use American English so that I get the $ sign instead of the £ symbol in the gboad shortcut as my country uses $, so that may be the reason why it's spelled with an 's'.




Just to weigh in from good ole Dayton, Ohio.  I think both spellings are acceptable, but I've never seen 'Equalizer' used without the 'z'.


----------



## Luke Skywalker

HeadphoneAddict said:


> There are a bunch of N6P impressions posted here, from the most prominent posters, but this thread is so big that they get lost in the storm. I got these dates below based on photos I took for the reviews, but they review might have been posted within a day or two of those dates.
> 
> I think I posted some N6P impressions around 5/2/20 (the pair that arrived 4/30/20 were defective), and some Jabra 75t impressions around 5/14/20, and some Sony WF-SP800N impressions around 5/21/20, if you scroll back to those dates. In the last one I summarized some my experiences. I also posted a full review of the Sennheiser MTW in the review section around 4/21/20.
> 
> ...


Wow great info, thanks.  I had the same experience with the N6P's.  Put my favorite Acoustune tips on, stick them in my ears and play some music.  They sound perfect.  I have noticed though that people don't seem to hear me as well on phone calls as they do with the Sony XM3... So i usually stick those bad boys in for work calls and stuff


----------



## Caipirina

Has anyone heard anything from the house of BOSE, specifically when the heck they finally get their ANC buds out there? Really has been a while since announcement, was it last September? I am so ready to throw money in their direction, I even found myself wondering if I should get a 3rd pair of the SSF, because 'orange' ... pretty ... also: 159€ 

I think the pandemic and the terrible shipping from China has weened me off my cheap chifi tws addiction ... i still have several 'in the mail' (or lost at sea?) from the end of March sale ... they keep pushing the buyer protection time and all I can do is wait ... by now those are old, and / or cheaper ... 

So, I have been looking at some older 'higher level' buds and I recall that the CA Melomania 1 usually was highly praised around here ... have a chance to get them for 92€ ... with amazon return advantages ... shall I?


----------



## McCol

Had the Jabra Elite Active 75T delivered this morning and have had a couple of hours listening while out walking the dog!

My experience of true wireless earphones is lacking compared to others and have only been trying them out for the last 2-3 months.
So far I have tried and returned or sold  - Cambridge Melomenia, Samsung Galaxy Buds+ and the Mifo 07.

To be honest I wasn't overly impressed with any of them, the fit was an issue with all and sound I found was also lacking for different reasons on all 3.

The Jabra 75t on early impressions seems to be the exception for me.  First off the build quality is excellent, nice materials and a nice feel in the hand, the fit is more or less perfect with supplied medium tips.  Walked around town this afternoon and through the local park without the need to readjust the fit.   

The app is excellent, easy to set up and use.

Sound quality is so far the best I've heard in my limited experience of wireless earphones.  Very brief description, mids and high are both smooth and detailed with a nice crispness to the presentation, the bass is strong, to my ears it's not overwhelming.  It sounds stronger when I'm sat in the house however out walking it doesn't appear as strong or prominent.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Toom said:


> Anyone here with Senn MTW2 feel like sharing their EQ setting using the Smartcontrol app?



Set the EQ to what sounds best for you. Most people need different EQ from other people, unless there is something seriously wrong with the IEM that needs to be fixed. And the Momentum is not said to have anything seriously wrong.


----------



## clerkpalmer

HeadphoneAddict said:


> Set the EQ to what sounds best for you. Most people need different EQ from other people, unless there is something seriously wrong with the IEM that needs to be fixed. And the Momentum is not said to have anything seriously wrong.


I dont have a picture but I move the dot up slightly and to the right slightly. I find a little bit of table boost brightens them up nicely and removes the hint of muddieness on flat.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict (Jun 5, 2020)

McCol said:


> Had the Jabra Elite Active 75T delivered this morning and have had a couple of hours listening while out walking the dog!
> 
> My experience of true wireless earphones is lacking compared to others and have only been trying them out for the last 2-3 months.
> So far I have tried and returned or sold  - Cambridge Melomenia, Samsung Galaxy Buds+ and the Mifo 07.
> ...



With a little EQ my Jabra 75t do now sound better than my GBuds+, and with over 24 hours of burn-in over the past 3 weeks the bass has become tighter, less boomy, and more controlled.

NOW, my current issue is that some of the older EQ settings that I saved are no longer valid, as I get to turn up the bass slightly over time and resave the EQ with a new name, because I can't figure out how to delete saved EQ settings that I no longer use. EDIT - . I'm up to "Usual Bass 5" as the name of my latest saved EQ name...


----------



## McCol

HeadphoneAddict said:


> With a little EQ my Jabra 75t do now sound better than my GBuds+, and with over 24 hours of burn-in over the past 3 weeks the bass has become tighter, less boomy, and more controlled.
> 
> NOW, my current issue is that some of the older EQ settings that I saved are no longer valid, as I get to turn up the bass slightly over time and resave the EQ with a new name, because I can't figure out how to delete saved EQ settings that I no longer use. EDIT - . I'm up to "Usual Bass 5" as the name of my latest saved EQ name...


I had a little play around with the EQ and was quite impressed with the difference it made to the sound.  

I'm really impressed them, far better than I was expecting.


----------



## Toom

HeadphoneAddict said:


> Set the EQ to what sounds best for you. Most people need different EQ from other people, unless there is something seriously wrong with the IEM that needs to be fixed. And the Momentum is not said to have anything seriously wrong.



Sigh. Thanks for clearing that up.


----------



## c4sadler

Personally, I think there's stall a ways to go before wireless replaces wired. This being said, wireless is so darn convenient. I enjoy my LYPERTEK TEVI - True Wireless Earbuds. They're about $90, comfortable, and sound fine.


----------



## clerkpalmer

Anyone have the BGVP Q2? Massdrop has them for a low price of 75. Look intriguing not so much for the wired option but rather for the 2 BA drivers. I'm on the fence.


----------



## Peddler

c4sadler said:


> Personally, I think there's stall a ways to go before wireless replaces wired. This being said, wireless is so darn convenient. I enjoy my LYPERTEK TEVI - True Wireless Earbuds. They're about $90, comfortable, and sound fine.



I also rate the Tevi's very highly indeed. Extremely detailed, dynamic, neutral and loud!!!

Superb value for money.


----------



## howdy

Caipirina said:


> Has anyone heard anything from the house of BOSE, specifically when the heck they finally get their ANC buds out there? Really has been a while since announcement, was it last September? I am so ready to throw money in their direction, I even found myself wondering if I should get a 3rd pair of the SSF, because 'orange' ... pretty ... also: 159€
> 
> I think the pandemic and the terrible shipping from China has weened me off my cheap chifi tws addiction ... i still have several 'in the mail' (or lost at sea?) from the end of March sale ... they keep pushing the buyer protection time and all I can do is wait ... by now those are old, and / or cheaper ...
> 
> So, I have been looking at some older 'higher level' buds and I recall that the CA Melomania 1 usually was highly praised around here ... have a chance to get them for 92€ ... with amazon return advantages ... shall I?


I just so happened to email Bose last week with the same question and there response was"they have no date of when they will be released. It seems like they are in no hurry to get them released. I wouldn't be surprised if it doesn't happen this year.


----------



## turbobb

https://www.gsmarena.com/vivo_tws_e..._adaptive_and_low_latency_mode-news-43515.php

While its copy-cat looks and 5.5 hrs of battery life (on AAC) are not much to be excited about, I believe these are the first TWS with BT 5.2 and aptX Adaptive (drops battery life to 4.2 hrs) which includes a Low Latency (88 ms) feature; however, no mention of LE Audio.


----------



## FYLegend

I'm wondering if anyone is having channel imbalance and/or desync issues with the Buds+? Out of the box I thought the left side had more mids than the right, but not as bad as some of the other TWS I had previously bought (Sabbat E12, Tronsmart Onyx Neo). Sometimes after a disconnect or poor connection, it seems like the Buds+ also sounds more boomy and wider, maybe the left and right channels are desyncing. The measurements on RTINGs do seem to agree with my impressions of where the imbalance is occurring but seems more subtle than what I was hearing.  However, sometimes putting them in the case and re-connecting seems to make them sound more balanced and usually I'm not bothered by it.

What's the latest rendition of the UFO TWS or something similar in ergonomics? AptX and a true USB Type-C connection or Qi charging is preferable. I pulled mine out recently - great soundstage and quite clean with SBC but still annoyed that the right side lacks treble compared to the left (foam helps a bit).

I see many complaints about the Song X not being fulfilled and the Indiegogo campaign being "closed". The DSI ANC earbud also seems down the drain as well. I'll give them the benefit of doubt if they get around to shipping them but so far I'm glad I didn't back them...


----------



## bronco1015

hifihov said:


> Hi All,
> 
> Looking for a TWS pair for calls only (good mic in quiet and crowded situations), as have cabled IEMs for music.
> 
> ...


For calls only, the Plantronics Backbeat pro 5100 is a great option. If your carrier uses HD voice then that's also compatible on the Backbeat pro. and they're small, the case charges via micro usb but they last 6.5 hours, and can be used individually.


----------



## bronco1015

NMSX said:


> Damn. I mean, I prefer an iPhone over Android so it is what it is, until now I've only used wired headphones so... no problems in that regard.
> I was thinking about ordering a pair of WH MX3's as a portable headphones too, may I face that problem too? And the Nuarl? :<
> 
> I don't understand why they make earphones that doesn't work properly with the codecs of the most sold smartphone brand in the world (kinda of lol). What a cruel world.
> ...


 @HeadphoneAddict has an iPhone, and uses the N6 Pro and enjoys the sq with them he's said in several posts throughout this thread. as far as companies not making something compatible with IOS devices, many do with AAC. obviously AAC works well for most use cases, and Apple implements it well throughout the entire Ecosystem. while objectively APTX has the potential to sound better, it doesn't always for several possible reasons. The TWE's OEM may not have implemented APTX correctly, so it might not sound as it should generally. Or the same could be said for the phone OEM for any codec.  There are several other reasons  to point out as well, so i'll just say, it would be nice if Apple, Qualcom, Huawei, LG, Xiaomi, BBK with their respective brands, sony A&K, Fiio etc; came together and set standards for each codec, then the TWE OEM's could follow those standards, then our discussions on these products would be refined significantly and we'd just be talking about things like, Fit and our sound preferences and SQ in general. Since that hasn't happened, i think Apple uses SBC and AAC only for a similar reason they only use iMessage. Build around 1 platform or in the case of Bluetooth audio; build around 1 codec, to create a mor consistent experience for the masses. using SBC is part of the standard bluetooth stack just like using group or MMS messages is part of basic messaging. Just to complete my analogy.


----------



## bronco1015 (Jun 6, 2020)

looks like my 1st gen MTW are starting to lose their longevity in the battery department. The last 3 times i've used them this week, with the case fully charged, i've gotten just a hair over 3.5 hours, then 2.5 hours, then i recharged the case again and the 3rd time just a hair over 2.5 hours. Until this week, i've been able to get 5 hours or close to it each time when i listen to them till they die. And this is at 65-70% volume. Bummer too, because the drivers sure have aged well. By far these get used mor than anything else i currently own but still. i thought this would be something i'd be saying maybe 2.5-3 years in, not at 18 months.


----------



## howdy

bronco1015 said:


> looks like my 1st gen MTW are starting to lose their longevity in the battery department. The last 3 times i've used them this week, with the case fully charged, i've gotten just a hair over 3.5 hours, then 2.5 hours, then i recharged the case again and the 3rd time just a hair over 2.5 hours. Until this week, i've been able to get 5 hours or close to it each time when i listen to them till they die. And this is at 65-70% volume. Bummer too, because the drivers sure have aged well. By far these get used mor than anything else i currently own but still. i thought this would be something i'd be saying maybe 2.5-3 years in, not at 18 months.


My MTWs still have around 4 hours but the case is broke and they case only holds a charge for about 2.5 days. I was gonna see if they would give me a replacement as they still are on the 2 year warranty window.


----------



## TheLionelHutz

FYLegend said:


> I'm wondering if anyone is having channel imbalance and/or desync issues with the Buds+? Out of the box I thought the left side had more mids than the right, but not as bad as some of the other TWS I had previously bought (Sabbat E12, Tronsmart Onyx Neo). Sometimes after a disconnect or poor connection, it seems like the Buds+ also sounds more boomy and wider, maybe the left and right channels are desyncing. The measurements on RTINGs do seem to agree with my impressions of where the imbalance is occurring but seems more subtle than what I was hearing.  However, sometimes putting them in the case and re-connecting seems to make them sound more balanced and usually I'm not bothered by it.


I don't have the GB+ (yet) so I can't comment on the general imbalance, but I've had that disconnect/reconnect "boomy" - I'm not sure that's the right word, but I do know what you mean - it's like you're suddenly listening to cheap on-ears - with TWS+ earbuds. I think this is a quirk of the QC tech. Could be a desync problem, dunno, but none of my buds using non-QC chips do this. 

What phone are you using? If you are on a Galaxy or Note 9 or higher you can try to jimmy the adaptive sound settings to temper the mids on the left side. But if the two buds really sound noticably different, I'd return or warranty them.


----------



## howdy

For those who have bought Complys from there website, how long did they take? I had 3-5 day shipping and it's now been over 3 weeks.


----------



## bronco1015

howdy said:


> My MTWs still have around 4 hours but the case is broke and they case only holds a charge for about 2.5 days. I was gonna see if they would give me a replacement as they still are on the 2 year warranty window.


 Let me know if they do give you a replacement case. i called them back in November a couple days after mine broke, and the Woman i spoke with was very specific in saying, the iems themselves were covered for 2 years, not the case. I wasn't rude, but i told her how that was BS. i had a ton going on at the time and never got around to calling them again, but didn't have high hopes either. Hopefully you have a better experience.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

bronco1015 said:


> looks like my 1st gen MTW are starting to lose their longevity in the battery department. The last 3 times i've used them this week, with the case fully charged, i've gotten just a hair over 3.5 hours, then 2.5 hours, then i recharged the case again and the 3rd time just a hair over 2.5 hours. Until this week, i've been able to get 5 hours or close to it each time when i listen to them till they die. And this is at 65-70% volume. Bummer too, because the drivers sure have aged well. By far these get used mor than anything else i currently own but still. i thought this would be something i'd be saying maybe 2.5-3 years in, not at 18 months.





howdy said:


> My MTWs still have around 4 hours but the case is broke and they case only holds a charge for about 2.5 days. I was gonna see if they would give me a replacement as they still are on the 2 year warranty window.





bronco1015 said:


> Let me know if they do give you a replacement case. i called them back in November a couple days after mine broke, and the Woman i spoke with was very specific in saying, the iems themselves were covered for 2 years, not the case. I wasn't rude, but i told her how that was BS. i had a ton going on at the time and never got around to calling them again, but didn't have high hopes either. Hopefully you have a better experience.



I think it maybe time for me to run another battery life test with mine that are now nine months old.


----------



## TK33

bronco1015 said:


> looks like my 1st gen MTW are starting to lose their longevity in the battery department. The last 3 times i've used them this week, with the case fully charged, i've gotten just a hair over 3.5 hours, then 2.5 hours, then i recharged the case again and the 3rd time just a hair over 2.5 hours. Until this week, i've been able to get 5 hours or close to it each time when i listen to them till they die. And this is at 65-70% volume. Bummer too, because the drivers sure have aged well. By far these get used mor than anything else i currently own but still. i thought this would be something i'd be saying maybe 2.5-3 years in, not at 18 months.


I can see these things becoming like cell phones...battery starts dying after 18 months and need to upgrade every 2-3 years. Maybe they'll even come bundled with phones or be financed on payment plans from your wireless carrier one day.


----------



## Luke Skywalker

bronco1015 said:


> @HeadphoneAddict has an iPhone, and uses the N6 Pro and enjoys the sq with them he's said in several posts throughout this thread. as far as companies not making something compatible with IOS devices, many do with AAC. obviously AAC works well for most use cases, and Apple implements it well throughout the entire Ecosystem. while objectively APTX has the potential to sound better, it doesn't always for several possible reasons. The TWE's OEM may not have implemented APTX correctly, so it might not sound as it should generally. Or the same could be said for the phone OEM for any codec.  There are several other reasons  to point out as well, so i'll just say, it would be nice if Apple, Qualcom, Huawei, LG, Xiaomi, BBK with their respective brands, sony A&K, Fiio etc; came together and set standards for each codec, then the TWE OEM's could follow those standards, then our discussions on these products would be refined significantly and we'd just be talking about things like, Fit and our sound preferences and SQ in general. Since that hasn't happened, i think Apple uses SBC and AAC only for a similar reason they only use iMessage. Build around 1 platform or in the case of Bluetooth audio; build around 1 codec, to create a mor consistent experience for the masses. using SBC is part of the standard bluetooth stack just like using group or MMS messages is part of basic messaging. Just to complete my analogy.


Just to add my 2 cents... I listen to music for a couple hours a day usually with the N6 Pro + iPhone 7 AAC, and it sounds awesome...  Blows away the sound quality of everything except my JH Lola IEM's.  I've heard some people say that the N6 doesn't have heavy bass, which isn't something I'm into, so maybe factor that in... But I think the N6 is a steal for the price

I also like how intuitive the controls are and tactile.  so easy to raise and lower volume, go to the next track, etc.


----------



## clerkpalmer

RHA True Connect for 85 bucks using code *TRUECONNECT50. A bit long in the tooth but have a very nice sound signature. Not a bad buy at that price. *


----------



## bronco1015

TK33 said:


> I can see these things becoming like cell phones...battery starts dying after 18 months and need to upgrade every 2-3 years. Maybe they'll even come bundled with phones or be financed on payment plans from your wireless carrier one day.


Very possible, but not a trend i hope to see personally, because will likely be limited to products like Galaxy Buds, Airpods pro, and maybe a few others; but it would seem those 2 would be the first offered if that were the case. And OEM's do that a lot lately, Samsung bundled 1st gen galaxy buds with preorders of the S10 and S10 plus, maybe the note as well, can't remember for the 10E. but while that would be cool to finance different TWEs through a carrier,  if the variety were good. As for the most popular models, imo that would just give phone manufacturers mor assumed leverage in raising phone prices. And Qualcom could raise prices as well, saying they need mor of a cut on licensing their true Wireless SOC's,  as well as phone SOC's, which could drive prices even higher, because it's only $1 or $2 extra per unit over the course of 2 years etc. Don't get me wrong; i love the idea. I just think it would be easier for companies to price fix and subtlely take advantage of the consumer.


----------



## FYLegend

TheLionelHutz said:


> I don't have the GB+ (yet) so I can't comment on the general imbalance, but I've had that disconnect/reconnect "boomy" - I'm not sure that's the right word, but I do know what you mean - it's like you're suddenly listening to cheap on-ears - with TWS+ earbuds. I think this is a quirk of the QC tech. Could be a desync problem, dunno, but none of my buds using non-QC chips do this.
> 
> What phone are you using? If you are on a Galaxy or Note 9 or higher you can try to jimmy the adaptive sound settings to temper the mids on the left side. But if the two buds really sound noticably different, I'd return or warranty them.


The imbalance doesn't always happen or otherwise I don't notice it. Sometimes re-connecting them seems to fix it.

I have an Exynos Note 9 so unfortunately I'm unable to test the full extent of TWS+ and both of my units (Sabbat E12 Ultra and Tronsmart Onyx Neo) are possibly defective as they sound brighter on the left side than the right. I got around it by putting foam under the nozzle of the brighter-sounding bud. I'm sure they're just duds (I tried my friend's E12 Ultra with my phone and it sounded much more balanced, albeit _slightly_ brighter on the right).

I never really got the boomy/wide problem with TWS+ buds or AptX devices but it happens often with SBC devices on Windows 10. Realtek chip is especially bad with the Note 9 as putting my finger along the volume key causes an aliasing distortion and the widening dropout.


----------



## Aevum (Jun 7, 2020)

i have the 1st MTW100 but im considering the FIIL T1X, and im wondering if its worth spending more. to get one of the big boys (sony, Jabra, Samsung Galaxy buds...)


----------



## hifi80sman (Jun 7, 2020)

Saw these at Target the other day for $49.  Anyone try them yet?  Wife was with me and I just had a headphone delivery via Amazon, so didn't want to buy something else when I JUST got a $350 pair waiting for me at home.
http://community.anker.com/t/new-release-soundcore-life-dot-2-is-now-available/81376


----------



## dw13 (Jun 7, 2020)

hmscott said:


> I didn't listen with an iPhone with my Buds+, but the way I heard it described is that Android has the crummy SBC and AAC codecs - Apple's codecs do just fine with the Buds+, so nothing to worry about.
> 
> What there is to worry about is fiddling around with the touch and edge touch controls on those darned things... that's why I returned them.  They sounded fine, but it was annoying to try to adjust them in my ear and have them take commands from my "touches".
> 
> ...


Yesterday the KZ S2'2 arrived and are remarkably good considering their price of $35.  Really, really good.  Better sounding than Lypertek Tevi IMO.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict (Jun 7, 2020)

Returned the Anker Soundcore Liberty Air 2 to Amazon yesterday. Not sound better than FIIL T1X for double the price, although not as bad with driver flex, also has Qi charging, plus auto-pause when removed from ears, which explains the 2x the cost - new tips can help the T1X driver flex 90% but it’s easier to adjust the LA2 if it shows up, without a tip change or losing my seal.

Lack of ambient sound or transparency with both is an issue for me.

PS: the Hear-ID hearing test and associated EQ added too much treble for my 58 year old ears - I guess I got used to my brain filling in the missing frequencies and wasn’t used to hearing it all. And I always needed to use some of the professional EQ to make them sound better. I had them for about 10 days


----------



## jant71 (Jun 7, 2020)

Since the newest JVC is soon to be released, I checked it out on the site...




Still pretty nice in the blue. Knew of the aptX, 9 hours, TWS+, LDS antenna, and IPX55 and all that but thought they came with ambient tips and they didn't have ambient mode. They have both on board ambient and Bass Boost with a nice control scheme...



If the aero design does work well for wind and they have ambient, ambient tips, bass boost and good sound they should be winners. I hate wind noise with some TWS and don't mind touch with these since they have the outer area with rubber surround for comfort and to adjust them w/o activating functions accidentally. Nice controls that do everything is quite nice and only one triple tap for when you adjust the bass which might just be to find the favorite and not even switch after that. Case has a grippable soft rubber on it as well. These are looking better and seem to be a more well thought out sports model. Only thing I might change would be play/pause on the right and ambient on the left and if they could get 2 hours on the 10 minute charge instead of one hour.

Actually I may be swayed for my actual sports use. If holding a racquet it will be in my right hand and dribbling a ball and then stopping to hold I am inclined to go with the right so maybe play/pause on the left is the smart way to go.


----------



## Mixmasterjw

Does anyone know off a good pair of cheaper tws from a european site? I need something for work to wear under my earmuffs.


----------



## TK33

bronco1015 said:


> Very possible, but not a trend i hope to see personally, because will likely be limited to products like Galaxy Buds, Airpods pro, and maybe a few others; but it would seem those 2 would be the first offered if that were the case. And OEM's do that a lot lately, Samsung bundled 1st gen galaxy buds with preorders of the S10 and S10 plus, maybe the note as well, can't remember for the 10E. but while that would be cool to finance different TWEs through a carrier,  if the variety were good. As for the most popular models, imo that would just give phone manufacturers mor assumed leverage in raising phone prices. And Qualcom could raise prices as well, saying they need mor of a cut on licensing their true Wireless SOC's,  as well as phone SOC's, which could drive prices even higher, because it's only $1 or $2 extra per unit over the course of 2 years etc. Don't get me wrong; i love the idea. I just think it would be easier for companies to price fix and subtlely take advantage of the consumer.



I agree with you. Never said it would be a good thing but given the way wireless phone prices are going anyway, I wouldn't be surprised. I do remember Samsung running the promo with the Galaxy Buds and know a few people who have them only because they were free. I paid full price for mine b/c I missed the promo and my wife now uses them for a few hours each day so I can't see those lasting much longer. Hopefully they do.


----------



## FlowLikeWater

Luke Skywalker said:


> Just to add my 2 cents... I listen to music for a couple hours a day usually with the N6 Pro + iPhone 7 AAC, and it sounds awesome...  Blows away the sound quality of everything except my JH Lola IEM's.  I've heard some people say that the N6 doesn't have heavy bass, which isn't something I'm into, so maybe factor that in... But I think the N6 is a steal for the price
> 
> I also like how intuitive the controls are and tactile.  so easy to raise and lower volume, go to the next track, etc.


+1, N6 pro got buttery smooth yet detailed sound sig, great tonality with decent detail

it does have very minor hiss though, only downside.


----------



## voicemaster

TK33 said:


> I agree with you. Never said it would be a good thing but given the way wireless phone prices are going anyway, I wouldn't be surprised. I do remember Samsung running the promo with the Galaxy Buds and know a few people who have them only because they were free. I paid full price for mine b/c I missed the promo and my wife now uses them for a few hours each day so I can't see those lasting much longer. Hopefully they do.


Iirc, I saw a youtube video showing how easy it is to change the battery on the galaxy buds. 
Here is the video:


----------



## RobinFood

jant71 said:


> Since the newest JVC is soon to be released, I checked it out on the site...
> 
> Still pretty nice in the blue. Knew of the aptX, 9 hours, TWS+, LDS antenna, and IPX55 and all that but thought they came with ambient tips and they didn't have ambient mode. They have both on board ambient and Bass Boost with a nice control scheme...
> 
> ...


They look pretty neat. I'm really interested in those ambient tips. Do you know if they are available individually somwhere?


----------



## Ultrainferno

Our full review of the Senn Momentum True Wireless 2 is now online:
https://www.headfonia.com/sennheiser-momentum-tw2-review/

Enjoy!


----------



## webvan

RobinFood said:


> They look pretty neat. I'm really interested in those ambient tips. Do you know if they are available individually somwhere?


I read the post you quote but still don't understand what "ambient tips" are exactly ?


----------



## hmscott (Jun 8, 2020)

jant71 said:


> Since the newest JVC is soon to be released, I checked it out on the site...
> 
> Still pretty nice in the blue. Knew of the aptX, 9 hours, TWS+, LDS antenna, and IPX55 and all that but thought they came with ambient tips and they didn't have ambient mode. They have both on board ambient and Bass Boost with a nice control scheme...
> 
> ...


It took me a while to figure out the model is JVC "HA-AE5T" Wireless sport headphones, and they look pretty good but they are $149...


https://www.us.jvc.com/headphones/
https://www.us.jvc.com/headphones/wireless_for_sports/ha_ae5t/


webvan said:


> I read the post you quote but still don't understand what "ambient tips" are exactly ?


"Ambient tips' let ambient sound through, while "isolating tips" block outside sound.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

webvan said:


> I read the post you quote but still don't understand what "ambient tips" are exactly ?



NXEars is developing ambient tips that will allow ambient noise to pass through and allow people to use the ear buds while exercising without hearing their heartbeat pounding or footsteps resonating inside their ears from the obstruction of the ear canal. 

You can still hear music with the ambient tips, with less bass due to the tips not sealing, but you could even have a conversation if you had to since the ear canals are only partially obstructed. I am testing a set here. I'm not sure I can talk about them yet more than this.


----------



## webvan

ok, so they're turning IEMs into...earbuds then ?  With well executed earbuds like the Sabbat X12 (or even the Apple EarPods but not the Plantronics) you still get decent bass but they are single use of course, you can't turn them into isolating IEMs...which for us "fans" is not a problem of course  Now with a change of the tips you can have a "dual purpose" IEM...but can these tips really be universal ?

What's interesting is that very very very few people (even here) notice/complain about the inevitable "thumping" of IEMs when running, something that quickly drives me half crazy so I'm not sure there is much of a market for these tips


----------



## McCol

I've had the Jabra 75T for a few days and they are an excellent pair of headphones.  Not a patch on any of my wired earphones but here's what I am finding.  They are really fun to listen too, very musical, find myself not analysing what I'm listening too, which is what I might do listening to my other sets of earphones.  
Been using them for a couple of hours every day when dog walking and a little at night in bed.  Going to try on my bike today with the hearthrough option, it's a bike trail so won't have to worry about traffic too much.


----------



## rlanger

McCol said:


> I've had the Jabra 75T for a few days and they are an excellent pair of headphones.  Not a patch on any of my wired earphones but here's what I am finding.  They are really fun to listen too, very musical, find myself not analysing what I'm listening too, which is what I might do listening to my other sets of earphones.
> Been using them for a couple of hours every day when dog walking and a little at night in bed.  Going to try on my bike today with the hearthrough option, it's a bike trail so won't have to worry about traffic too much.



Yeah, I have the Active version and agree that they are incredibly fun to listen to.

Amazingly well built and the most comfortable IEMs I've ever owned, including my customs. I've Sugru hacked a pair of SpinFit tips and the results have been nothing short of remarkable.

The new software update which include a sound customizing hearing test sends to work well too.

Extremely happy with these.


----------



## McCol

rlanger said:


> Yeah, I have the Active version and agree that they are incredibly fun to listen to.
> 
> Amazingly well built and the most comfortable IEMs I've ever owned, including my customs. I've Sugru hacked a pair of SpinFit tips and the results have been nothing short of remarkable.
> 
> ...


Yep, amazing fit,  I went for the active pair as well.


----------



## Caipirina

Mixmasterjw said:


> Does anyone know off a good pair of cheaper tws from a european site? I need something for work to wear under my earmuffs.



I just happened to come across the Tronsmart Spunky Beats on German amazon ... yesterday they were on flash deal for 25€, they are now back at 32. These are really good (check reviews here, and they have aptx!) and their profile is pretty flush with the ears, should work under earmuffs ... (such a Scandinavian question to ask in JUNE  are you getting your summer-earmuffs out for the beach?  )


----------



## Caipirina

Quick question for the Jabra experts here, did any model after the Elite Sport actually had heart rate measuring? Or was the Elite Sport pretty much the only TWS that worked with that sport app? 
I still have fond memories that one being my first TWS back in 2017 and my first connection the Strava ...


----------



## webvan

Yeah it's the only that had that feature and the app was really good too as they'd licensed many metrics from FirstBeat, unfortunately the actual ear sensor was pretty useless and even worse than optical wrist sytems, which says a lot. That's probably why they forgot about that idea pretty quickly.

My SiFi II should come in today, can't wait !


----------



## Caipirina

webvan said:


> Yeah it's the only that had that feature and the app was really good too as they'd licensed many metrics from FirstBeat, unfortunately the actual ear sensor was pretty useless and even worse than optical wrist sytems, which says a lot. That's probably why they forgot about that idea pretty quickly.
> 
> My SiFi II should come in today, can't wait !



I thought they had the in ear HR measure in a previous neckband BT model as well ...  I actually had no issue with the HR readings ... the i had more problems with the tips which broke after a few weeks and out of 6 pairs in the box, only one pair was the right one, and back then there were no easy replacement tips for TWS yet (the Jabra ES needed shorter ones) ... good old times ... 

Please report back on the THUD (if any) of the sifi2 ... if all goes well, by end of this week I shall be in a position to be able to order them too ... do i need them? heck, I don;t think so  but but but ...  (I still have not unboxed my sifi1 which are waiting where I am going  )


----------



## jant71

hmscott said:


> It took me a while to figure out the model is JVC "HA-AE5T" Wireless sport headphones, and they look pretty good but they are $149...
> 
> https://www.us.jvc.com/headphones/
> https://www.us.jvc.com/headphones/wireless_for_sports/ha_ae5t/
> ...



JVC does have at times a better street price right off or it certainly will drop pretty soon. I'd like $125 myself but don't blame them. They are competing with Jabra which is $180 and AT had their Sport model at $199 for the sport model. The Sony XB700 is $139 with no ambient, not the fit kit with fins and both types of tips, no aptX, 27 vs. 18 hour total battery life, no bass settings and doesn't even work with the Sony app to do stuff. At what I would expect them to list price it. 

I'm sure that it what the ambient tips are for. These are for "serious" runners so I'm sure they decided to have ambient to talk through and ambient tips to help with footfall noise/bone conduction. They look good for other tips as well...




Looks like the new tips are based on the normal and previous ones so long core but the outside is shorter so less tips fitting into case shenanigans. You can most likely even step up the isolation further from the stock tips.


----------



## clerkpalmer

Sony Sp-800n are on sale at Best Buy for $160 - just in time for father's day.  I've been pretty happy with the MTW2 but we will see how they compare come Sunday.


----------



## turbobb (Jun 8, 2020)

Been a while since we've heard anything about the new Klipsch TWS announced at CES but FWIW, the T5 II Sport are now listed on Amazon (release date: Aug 10):
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B088XXY7ZS

EDIT: the T5 II listing is also posted (same release date):
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B088ZPSLCV

I'm excited about the T10 (not so much the price though... )


----------



## clerkpalmer

turbobb said:


> Been a while since we've heard anything about the new Klipsch TWS announced at CES but FWIW, the T5 II Sport are now listed on Amazon (release date: Aug 10):
> https://www.amazon.com/dp/B088XXY7ZS
> 
> EDIT: the T5 II listing is also posted (same release date):
> ...



It takes a lot for me to hesitate when it comes from headphones.  I would trust someone like Audeze or HiFiman more for high end TWS than Klipsch.  However, that's what returns are for I guess.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

clerkpalmer said:


> Sony Sp-800n are on sale at Best Buy for $160 - just in time for father's day.  I've been pretty happy with the MTW2 but we will see how they compare come Sunday.



Good luck with the fit - I could not get a seal without removing the ear hooks. But I think the sound after a day of burn-in was pretty good.


----------



## clerkpalmer

HeadphoneAddict said:


> Good luck with the fit - I could not get a seal without removing the ear hooks. But I think the sound after a day of burn-in was pretty good.


Thanks. I had good luck with the 700 so I'm hoping it's the same. Otherwise back they go.


----------



## RemoGaggi (Jun 9, 2020)

ri


DynamicEars said:


> Really looking forward about your KZ Z1 impressions, especially vs GT1 plus and T1x mate



I finally got a pair of KZ Z1 last week.  I found the KZ Z1 to just be ok and borderline disappointing.  It doesn't sound bad, just nothing close to the Fiil T1x or Haylou GT1 Plus.  My Tranya B530 sound better also.  I don't find the soundstaging to be all that great and the bass vibrates a lot.  I wouldn't say the bass is muddy or sloppy, but it does feel like there is a lot of movement of the driver in the earbud and I find it annoying.  Some may like it.  Imaging and separation are just ok and are simply not in the same class as my other 3 earbuds mentioned earlier.  I do like the shape of the earbud as it fits great in my ear.  It is very comfortable and the BT connection with both my laptop and Ipad were quick and rock solid.  The touch controls also work great.  I just wish they sounded better. One more thing, these are LOUD.  You will need to turn down the volume or you'll blow your ears out. (Note: I originally ordered a pair from Linsoul and they arrived in the USA a week later.  However, they never got delivered to me and I contacted Linsoul several times.  When it became apparent that they were never going to arrive, Linsoul refunded me.  While disappointed that I didn't receive them, Linsoul's customer service was great.  They replied to each of my emails and refunded me.  I ended up buying a pair on Amazon (previously unavailable) and received them a day later.  If you are in the USA and buy from Linsoul, I recommend you pay the extra $12 for the express shipping, because I think the free shipping option is garbage. 

A few notes on my other earbuds, Fiil T1x, Haylou GT1 Plus, and Tranya B530.

Fiil T1x - Of the 4 pairs I have, these are the best I have.  They sound great in all aspects and make my feet tap and head move when I listen to music - high "Groove" factor. The KZ Z1 doesn't do that for me.  The T1x are very "musical" and fun to listen to.  The only negative I found with the T1x is that they weren't super comfortable and became fatiguing after wearing for awhile.  I believe I may have solved this issue with getting some Auvio eartips, which seem to make them much more comfortable.  The BT connection withe the T1x is quick and rock solid.

Haylou GT1 Plus. - These are so sweet and natural sounding.  To me, these sound much like the Fiil T1x, but with a lot less power.  The sound is kind of like a T1x, but with a much less powerful amplifier.  Unlike the T1x, KZ Z1, and B530, the GT1 Plus feel super light and cheap out of the box.  When I first got them, I was very unimpressed with the physical feel of the storage box and earbuds and they felt like toys.  Additionally, I had to reset mine out of the box to get both the channels to work.  But, once I got them to work, I was blown away from the sound.  I literally could listen to these all day and these have the "groove" factor I mentioned above - they will make your feet tap and body move uncontrollably to the music.  The downsides are that the BT connection is weak and I can't walk to the other side of the house like I can with the T1x.  Also, I've had to reset the GT1 Plus at least 3 times and they don't always want to connect.  Also, as reported by others, the volume is very low, so you will be close to max on the volume when you use these.  I'm also annoyed by the sensitivity of the touch control as I find it impossible to adjust the earbud without pausing the music from the touch control.  But, for $25, these are a steal.

Tranya B530 - These are overall good sound buds but they have connectivity issues with external BT transmitters and my Dell Laptop that has built in BT.  When used with an external BT transmitter, it will power off after about 4.5 minutes.  On my Dell Laptop, it will randomly disconnect for no reason.  The B530's work fine with my Ipad and phone.  I contacted Tranya about the connectivity issues I was having and I was told they do all their testing on phones, not PC's and Transmitters.  So, if you are planning to use the B530's on something other than a cell phone, don't bother.  I don't have the connectivity issues with my other 3 eabuds when using a transmitter or PC.  Only the B530 have this issue.


----------



## axhng (Jun 9, 2020)

not sure if anyone has posted impression of the QCY T4 yet, but my originally missing (tracking went cold april 3rd) QCY T4 from AE showed up in my mailbox.






quick initial impressions is that it's not bad sounding. relatively balanced presentation. bass impact is a tad lacking for my taste. Mids are forward in the mix which i definitely like, though it has that upper mids boost like the T5 which can make higher vocals a tad shouty. detail retrieval is very meh, soundstage and separation is meh too. Think I remember T5 being a bit better in those regard. But for its price, it's still not too bad i suppose.

Volume is loud too like the T5, louder in fact. i'm using 50% on these at home only and that feels a bit loud already. But the weird thing is that when i'm below 50%, right side becomes softer than the left. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ At first i still thought channel imbalance.

App is not good at all since it requires location permission to even connect the earbuds to the app, and need to create account using phone number. Like why??

10 band EQ are user customisable and same for controls, and they stick to the earbuds. So after tweaking the settings you want, if you pair to another phone, even without app the same tweaks will be there. the EQ options are trash as far as i can tell. Manual EQ will drastically lower the overall volume for some reason and push the mids back. like just boosting the bass by a few dB the volume drops, but even if i increase the volume to a same output level the mids still sounds pushed back.

My guess is that even though default EQ shows a flat line, it's not. but when you manually tweak the EQ, like maybe boosting the bass a tad, it legit goes back to a flat EQ and lets you tune from there. Not sure if that's a good or bad thing, still playing around with it.

So my hot take is that it's fine for its price tag, but the only nice thing about the app is that you can change how the controls work (like single tap to increase volume). Other than that it's not that useful, also you can't change the triple tap command. Sound quality wise I think the Haylou GT1 Plus which is similarly priced is still more capable overall, and since the rest of the features the T4 provides doesn't really work that great anyway, that would probably still be my top choice in that price bracket.


----------



## DynamicEars

RemoGaggi said:


> ri
> 
> 
> I finally got a pair of KZ Z1 last week.  I found the KZ Z1 to just be ok and borderline disappointing.  It doesn't sound bad, just nothing close to the Fiil T1x or Haylou GT1 Plus.  My Tranya B530 sound better also.  I don't find the soundstaging to be all that great and the bass vibrates a lot.  I wouldn't say the bass is muddy or sloppy, but it does feel like there is a lot of movement of the driver in the earbud and I find it annoying.  Some may like it.  Imaging and separation are just ok and are simply not in the same class as my other 3 earbuds mentioned earlier.  I do like the shape of the earbud as it fits great in my ear.  It is very comfortable and the BT connection with both my laptop and Ipad were quick and rock solid.  The touch controls also work great.  I just wish they sounded better. One more thing, these are LOUD.  You will need to turn down the volume or you'll blow your ears out. (Note: I originally ordered a pair from Linsoul and they arrived in the USA a week later.  However, they never got delivered to me and I contacted Linsoul several times.  When it became apparent that they were never going to arrive, Linsoul refunded me.  While disappointed that I didn't receive them, Linsoul's customer service was great.  They replied to each of my emails and refunded me.  I ended up buying a pair on Amazon (previously unavailable) and received them a day later.  If you are in the USA and buy from Linsoul, I recommend you pay the extra $12 for the express shipping, because I think the free shipping option is garbage.
> ...



So in the end I got the Z1 before you lol. I concur that they are tuned badly, too v shaped and yes bass is overwhelming. But after play around, i used the wavelet (thanks to our friend @chinmie for sharing this great app) with KZ ZS10 Pro setting autoEQ, and then compensate with manual EQ to reduce more mid bass and reduce high mids because harman target 3khz pinna gain isnt for me. My preference tuning is have boosted bass, thick and weighty mids, with a little forward mids, than from 1.5khz gradually up, pinna gain on 2khz and have dip on 3khz is a must, then go up again on 4khz and slightly go down then a little boost on 8khz before going down. (look at TOTL tuning Sony IER Z1R, QDC Anole VX, etc they have slight dip on 3khz.
and after using wavelet with autoEQ KZ ZS10 Pro + manual EQ they are sounded very great. The moving inside actually is air pressure that come out from the 10mm DD with that turbo charger XUN technology, im not sure if that just a BS marketing terms but that what you feel, the *moving air* that rarely come, its something that DD lover after actually. The feeling of the moving air is great!. and the tuning after using wavelet autoEQ and manual EQ is great too, they are much different from original v shape tuning,
and combined with azla sedna short eartips, and i put a little piece cut of micropore tape, result is great. Im gonna write this on KZ thread later. but after this simple mods, I like them better than my GT1 plus, but still the GT1 plus have something, details but with that smoothness.


----------



## hifihov

I watched youtube recordings of the mic tests, and initially wasn't impressed by the quality of most of the buds reviewed (from the video), but then found recordings on soundguys.com, and could hear the actual quality - huge difference. A few days later and a pair of Buds+ bought - cracking! Using with double flange tips from my Rai Pentas and there's bass a plenty. 

I have them paired to my Mac (High Sierra 10.13.6) and while fine with the O/S, as soon as I try to use via any conferencing like Zoom/Ring, the phones output (sound not mic) switches from 32bit to 16 bit 8KHZ, and sounds terrible... 

Anyone else facing this?


----------



## hifihov

bronco1015 said:


> For calls only, the Plantronics Backbeat pro 5100 is a great option. If your carrier uses HD voice then that's also compatible on the Backbeat pro. and they're small, the case charges via micro usb but they last 6.5 hours, and can be used individually.


Thanks for the heads up. I checked the pro 5100  and he Buds+ seemed to get higher scores on clarity, so went with the Buds+.

Thanks again.


----------



## bronco1015

hifihov said:


> Thanks for the heads up. I checked the pro 5100  and he Buds+ seemed to get higher scores on clarity, so went with the Buds+.
> 
> Thanks again.


 no problem. Never used the galaxy buds personally, but over all for what you get with them, looks like a solid purchase.


----------



## supertx2

erockg said:


> Trying these out this week.  All-in, $130.  Pretty impressed so far.


Shure 215? how is the static noise/hissing?


----------



## chinmie

i just got the Pamu Unique from the mail. my impression on this after short listening time:
the overall presentation of the case and earpiece is good, nice quality plastic, nice swappable case covers. the cons are the case is pretty big in size, and also i do not like the oval shaped nozzle... it's small also, so can't use regular tips on it. the stock oval tips can't fit in my ears at all, so i use some aftermarket TWS tips for it.

on paper, this thing has great specs: solid built, aptx, 10 hours single charge battery life, volume controls (although the skip backward track selection is awkwardly absent), but the sound signature is underwhelming.. it's just not my liking...
it's similar to the pamu scroll's sound (by memory, because it's been a while since i had it). the midbass is too wolly and the treble, although extended, has a weird dip somewhere in the midhigh, resulting the treble to be metallic and tinny. I'm afraid using this for a period of time will make my ears ringing. 

i put it on loop play for now to see if the sound would change at all (which i doubt it will). but if the sound stays the same, i think I'll let this go too just like the pamu scroll


----------



## erockg

supertx2 said:


> Shure 215? how is the static noise/hissing?


I actually returned the SE215 and picked up the SE535.  They sound amazing.  I can't stop listening to them.


----------



## jasonb

Picked up a Sony WF-1000XM3 from Best Buy this morning for $179. So far I'm very impressed and they sound as good as most people say. I'm using the comply foam tips that I've been using on my Lypertek Tevi's and minimal EQ to brighten them up just a hair and I like what I'm hearing. The NC is good, and the ambient sound is great. I had the WH-1000XM2 and these have a much better default sound.


----------



## Ynot1 (Jun 9, 2020)

2 for $40
But are these any good?
https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=30878
Based on monoprice site reviews, can't tell rather these are held back by quality control or something else.


----------



## chinmie

jasonb said:


> Picked up a Sony WF-1000XM3 from Best Buy this morning for $179. So far I'm very impressed and they sound as good as most people say. I'm using the comply foam tips that I've been using on my Lypertek Tevi's and minimal EQ to brighten them up just a hair and I like what I'm hearing. The NC is good, and the ambient sound is great. I had the WH-1000XM2 and these have a much better default sound.



to my ears, the WFXM3 also sounds better than the WHXM3. the reason i still keep my WHXM3 around is because it can still run wired to the PS4 controller.


----------



## RemoGaggi

DynamicEars said:


> So in the end I got the Z1 before you lol. I concur that they are tuned badly, too v shaped and yes bass is overwhelming. But after play around, i used the wavelet (thanks to our friend @chinmie for sharing this great app) with KZ ZS10 Pro setting autoEQ, and then compensate with manual EQ to reduce more mid bass and reduce high mids because harman target 3khz pinna gain isnt for me. My preference tuning is have boosted bass, thick and weighty mids, with a little forward mids, than from 1.5khz gradually up, pinna gain on 2khz and have dip on 3khz is a must, then go up again on 4khz and slightly go down then a little boost on 8khz before going down. (look at TOTL tuning Sony IER Z1R, QDC Anole VX, etc they have slight dip on 3khz.
> and after using wavelet with autoEQ KZ ZS10 Pro + manual EQ they are sounded very great. The moving inside actually is air pressure that come out from the 10mm DD with that turbo charger XUN technology, im not sure if that just a BS marketing terms but that what you feel, the *moving air* that rarely come, its something that DD lover after actually. The feeling of the moving air is great!. and the tuning after using wavelet autoEQ and manual EQ is great too, they are much different from original v shape tuning,
> and combined with azla sedna short eartips, and i put a little piece cut of micropore tape, result is great. Im gonna write this on KZ thread later. but after this simple mods, I like them better than my GT1 plus, but still the GT1 plus have something, details but with that smoothness.


Thanks for the suggestion for the EQ.  I installed Equalizer APO and Peace on my laptop and played around with it and it sounds quite a bit different now.  I've still got some work to do on the settings, but at least they are listenable now.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

chinmie said:


> i just got the Pamu Unique from the mail. my impression on this after short listening time:
> the overall presentation of the case and earpiece is good, nice quality plastic, nice swappable case covers. the cons are the case is pretty big in size, and also i do not like the oval shaped nozzle... it's small also, so can't use regular tips on it. the stock oval tips can't fit in my ears at all, so i use some aftermarket TWS tips for it.
> 
> on paper, this thing has great specs: solid built, aptx, 10 hours single charge battery life, volume controls (although the skip backward track selection is awkwardly absent), but the sound signature is underwhelming.. it's just not my liking...
> ...



My Pamu Scroll bass improved a lot with burn-in after I got it, so I kept using it exclusively as my favorite TWS for a couple of years, until I got my AirPods Pro that I got for transparency mode and my MTW last September for the sound quality. But, Scroll has a similar battery drain issue as my Momentum True Wireless. I still have not broken the shrink wrap on my PaM slide - don't know why.


----------



## hifi80sman (Jun 10, 2020)

Let me be honest, I've purchased and returned the WF-SP800N a few times because the driver flex was bothering me.  Well, looks like a new batch came in, at least at Target, to where my new pair does not have any driver flex.  Based on the stock levels and feedback from employees in the electronics section, there was a new shipment of these that came in after the initial release.

I've actually been going back and forth between these and the APP, but in the end, the APP's short battery and seemingly right side always dying first (on 2 different sets) made me go with the WF-SP800N.  The L tips and M wings fit me comfortably and I was able to workout in the park no problem (sprints, pull ups, etc.).  But who am I kidding, we all know I'll be picking up the APP again because I'm a degenerate.

I also tried the Sony WF-XB700 and I was NOT impressed.  The bass is what you'd expect, but the mids are a little thin and highs are really raspy/scratchy, such that it sounds cheap-ish.  They'd be a great gift for the typical teen or average consumer, but SQ is not their strong point for us discerning folk.  Plus, there's no app control to EQ, so it is what it is.  They also have some driver flex.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict (Jun 10, 2020)

hifi80sman said:


> Let me be honest, I've purchased and returned the WF-SP800N a few times because the driver flex was bothering me.  Well, looks like a new batch came in, at least at Target, to where my new pair does not have any driver flex.  Based on the stock levels and feedback from employees in the electronics section, there was a new shipment of these that came in after the initial release.
> 
> I've actually been going back and forth between these and the APP, but in the end, the APP's short battery and seemingly right side always dying first (on 2 different sets) made me go with the WF-SP800N.  The L tips and M wings fit me comfortably and I was able to workout in the park no problem (sprints, pull ups, etc.).  But who am I kidding, we all know I'll be picking up the APP again because I'm a degenerate.
> 
> I also tried the Sony WF-XB700 and I was NOT impressed.  The bass is what you'd expect, but the mids are a little thin and highs are really raspy/scratchy, such that it sounds cheap-ish.  They'd be a great gift for the typical teen or average consumer, but SQ is not their strong point for us discerning folk.  Plus, there's no app control to EQ, so it is what it is.  They also have some driver flex.



The WF-1000XM3 price dropped to $178 for a "Limited-Time" and I almost sprung for them, but after my experience with the WF-SP800N with poor fit and sticking way out of my ears, I'm afraid to pull the trigger. They did sound good without the wings and a deep tight fit with the largest tips, but my ears wanted to keep expelling them slowly over time, and I wasn't sure that they felt that secure and safe from losing one. I have that same issue with AirPods Pro, I can use medium or large tips, but neither is very secure and they work loose over time.

The SP800N driver flex was mild and cleared itself without affecting the sound after a few seconds, but the crinkling sound made me think that they'd break after using them for a while.

Do you guys think I should give the WF-1000XM3 a try anyway? I think they look big and bad, in a bad way. I can't seem to force myself to pull the trigger.

EDIT - looking at the bestbuy.com reviews a lot of the 1 and 2 star reviews had similar disconnect issues or other bugs with WF-1000XM3 like what I had with my WF-SP800N. Many also had fit issues like me.


----------



## hifi80sman

HeadphoneAddict said:


> The WF-1000XM3 price dropped to $178 for a "Limited-Time" and I almost sprung for them, but after my experience with the WF-SP800N with poor fit and sticking way out of my ears, I'm afraid to pull the trigger. They did sound good without the wings and a deep tight fit with the largest tips, but my ears wanted to keep expelling them slowly over time, and I wasn't sure that they felt that secure and safe from losing one. I have that same issue with AirPods Pro, I can use medium or large tips, but neither is very secure and they work loose over time.
> 
> The SP800N driver flex was mild and cleared itself without affecting the sound after a few seconds, but the crinkling sound made me think that they'd break after using them for a while.
> 
> Do you guys think I should give the WF-1000XM3 a try anyway? I think they look big and bad, in a bad way. I can't seem to force myself to pull the trigger.


I'm always for giving something a shot, so go for it!  My guess, however, is they will not stay very secure, as in my case they were problematic even with light exercise.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

hifi80sman said:


> I'm always for giving something a shot, so go for it!  My guess, however, is they will not stay very secure, as in my case they were problematic even with light exercise.



Thanks. 
(1) I worry that I'd not be able to get over the size (thick and long), which was an issue for the WF-SP800N for me, and why I haven't tried the Liberty Pro 2 either. And, 
(2) I do think if the WF-SP800N were trying to come out of my ears (without the wings) that the WF-1000XM3 will too. They were secure with the wings but with no seal, and the some of the reviews complained about them coming loose, and
(3) I did have Bluetooth cut outs with the WF-SP800N and some of the reviews complained about that too.

I think I need to think about it more.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

hifi80sman said:


> *I'm always for giving something a shot, so go for it! * My guess, however, is they will not stay very secure, as in my case they were problematic even with light exercise.



Dangit! 

After I wrote the above I just pulled the trigger on the XM3, because I can try them ASAP with BestBuy curbside pickup when we also go to pick up a corsair mouse same day, and if I don't like it then I can return it locally ASAP, and get a refund before my next credit card statement prints in 2 weeks.

I mostly want the perfect total wireless with a transparency mode (ANC is nice but not mandatory). I can compare their pros and cons to the GBuds+ (slight grainy highs with treble-oriented transparency mode), Jabra 75t (better sounding EQ'd, and transparency mode with fuller frequency), as well as my APP (best transparency and ANC mode, but cheaper sound and come loose more easily), and MTW (great all around sound and fit, except need louder transparency mode). 

My MTW and N6P have the best sound, with very different flavors, and if N6P had a transparency mode or MTW had louder transparency mode I'd be done looking and would alternate between both of these the most. However, the N6P are the least comfortable out of the MTW, Jabra, or GBuds (APP feel loose and itchy). I still like the Pamu Scroll that remind me of the MTW but not quite and with less features (no transparency or EQ).

I just hope I don't have the connection issues with sound and the app that I had with WF-SP800N, and that they stay in my ears and are not too big, and that the sound good...


----------



## chinmie (Jun 10, 2020)

HeadphoneAddict said:


> The WF-1000XM3 price dropped to $178 for a "Limited-Time" and I almost sprung for them, but after my experience with the WF-SP800N with poor fit and sticking way out of my ears, I'm afraid to pull the trigger. They did sound good without the wings and a deep tight fit with the largest tips, but my ears wanted to keep expelling them slowly over time, and I wasn't sure that they felt that secure and safe from losing one. I have that same issue with AirPods Pro, I can use medium or large tips, but neither is very secure and they work loose over time.
> 
> The SP800N driver flex was mild and cleared itself without affecting the sound after a few seconds, but the crinkling sound made me think that they'd break after using them for a while.
> 
> ...



i haven't tried the SP800N yet, so i can't comment on how it would differ from the WF XM3 in fit, but for me personally i don't have a fitting problem with it, and liking it enough to buy a second unit.. and they're easily my most used earphones these days.
i don't use them for sport, though, and i do use non stock eartips with them. i did try some foams and did test running and jumping with it, and it's very secure. the only reason i don't specifically use them for sport is their lack of IPX rating




HeadphoneAddict said:


> My Pamu Scroll bass improved a lot with burn-in after I got it, so I kept using it exclusively as my favorite TWS for a couple of years, until I got my AirPods Pro that I got for transparency mode and my MTW last September for the sound quality. But, Scroll has a similar battery drain issue as my Momentum True Wireless. I still have not broken the shrink wrap on my PaM slide - don't know why.



for me it's not the bass of the pamu unique (or slide mini, as i think they're identical) that is bothering me, but rather it's the treble that's too tinny and weightless, and also the fit problem. i tried with some other tips that works a bit and make the sound somewhat better, but the tips would come off too easily. had one left stuck in my ears just this afternoon, and i don't want to go through that mini heart attack again. 

maybe you can try and compare your slide mini unit and your scroll for some impressions?


----------



## Bhelpoori

hifi80sman said:


> I've actually been going back and forth between these and the APP, but in the end, the APP's short battery and seemingly right side always dying first (on 2 different sets) made me go with the WF-SP800N.  The L tips and M wings fit me comfortably and I was able to workout in the park no problem (sprints, pull ups, etc.).  But who am I kidding, we all know I'll be picking up the APP again because I'm a degenerate.


Regarding the right side dying first: Is this because the APP on calls chooses the right microphone? 

If not then there have been bugs in the APP where the right and left are treated independently, which is shown up by the right (or left) side having different battery levels as shown by the iphone/ipad, which significantly decreases battery life as well as causing one side to fail before the other. 

And for people that don't know, the APP has really poor battery life when on calls (3.5 hours)


----------



## webvan

HeadphoneAddict said:


> Dangit!
> 
> After I wrote the above I just pulled the trigger on the XM3, because I can try them ASAP with BestBuy curbside pickup when we also go to pick up a corsair mouse same day, and if I don't like it then I can return it locally ASAP, and get a refund before my next credit card statement prints in 2 weeks.
> 
> ...



If you're a bit OCD about fit I'm pretty sure you will NOT like the WF-1000XM3 as these are basically the worst fitting IEMs known to man. Unless you ram them in the canal with silicone tips (it gets painful quickly) or with Complys they will simply not keep the seal unless perhaps you stay perfectly still. So the Comply's could work but a) they muffle the sound and b) they deteriorate quickly so it's a losing proposition in my book. In any case they will stick out like a sore thumb so if you didn't like that with the SP800 it won't be any better here. There are much better fitting TWS that you should try first, the MTW2, the Amazon EchoBuds, the Soundcore LP2 (especially if you don't need ANC), etc...


----------



## phiemon

Hi guys,

what do you think has an overall "better" sound quality: the mtw2 or e8 v.3?


----------



## Bhelpoori

hifihov said:


> I watched youtube recordings of the mic tests, and initially wasn't impressed by the quality of most of the buds reviewed (from the video), but then found recordings on soundguys.com, and could hear the actual quality - huge difference. A few days later and a pair of Buds+ bought - cracking! Using with double flange tips from my Rai Pentas and there's bass a plenty.
> 
> I have them paired to my Mac (High Sierra 10.13.6) and while fine with the O/S, as soon as I try to use via any conferencing like Zoom/Ring, the phones output (sound not mic) switches from 32bit to 16 bit 8KHZ, and sounds terrible...
> 
> Anyone else facing this?


This is not a Buds+ or a Mac problem but rather a Bluetooth thing. If you want to use the microphone then you are using a different profile from the one you use when playing audio. On the Mac you can use ToothFairy or similar to fix this manually: https://apps.apple.com/us/app/toothfairy/id1191449274?mt=12


----------



## hifihov (Jun 10, 2020)

Bhelpoori said:


> This is not a Buds+ or a Mac problem but rather a Bluetooth thing. If you want to use the microphone then you are using a different profile from the one you use when playing audio. On the Mac you can use ToothFairy or similar to fix this manually: https://apps.apple.com/us/app/toothfairy/id1191449274?mt=12


Hi, I just pasted https://www.head-fi.org/threads/does-your-tws-iem-mic-work-with-macos.934538/ as its not just Buds+ as you say.

Toothfairy – thanks for the tip! Is there an alternative free one? I don’t want to pay £4.99 to find it doesn’t work, hence asking.


----------



## Bhelpoori (Jun 10, 2020)

hifihov said:


> Hi, I just pasted https://www.head-fi.org/threads/does-your-tws-iem-mic-work-with-macos.934538/ as its not just Buds+ as you say.
> 
> Toothfairy – thanks for the tip! Is there an alternative free one? I don’t want to pay £4.99 to find it doesn’t work, hence asking.


Toothfairy is simply making nice clothes around something that is in the Mac already. Developers (or you) can get for free the same thing with Bluetooth Explorer which is an Apple utility for testing Bluetooth that is developer friendly. What they are both doing is Tool/Audio Option dialog, if I remember correctly.

Personally, I find the price of Toothfairy fair for what it is, developers responsive and if it doesn't work then since it is on Mac App Store you may be able to ask Apple for your money back if it doesn't work.


----------



## myltz400

Thanks for all the reviews and help on this addicting thread.  It is painfully obvious to me that the answer is yes, it's too early for wireless iems! 

I am no audiophile and certainly like boosted sound.  Especially in earbuds. The Pratt and Whitney engine 6 feet away or lawn mower sort of kill the phonograph, tube, preamp experience with portable headphones. 

I have settled with the AAP.  The Liberty 2 Pro and Sony  WF-SP800N sound the best to me.  I really liked the Sony above all, however the large form factor and fit issues made me return them.  I feel the Echo buds that I still use are close to the Sony in regard to ANC and can be EQed to sound close with some restriction to soundstage.

Galaxy Buds+ were fun and are very appealing.  I can understand why people like them because they are light and have an intriguing sound to them.  With no ANC and the concentration on good through sound I feel like they are more for inside, office style earbuds.

So after lengthy testing in a wide range of my activities with my son's APP I purchased my own pair.  They don't sound as good as the large Sonys or Libertys but the small form factor and good ANC have me grabbing them more often. Until someone comes out with small, comfortable, good ANC earbuds I will try and be happy with the APPs. 

I haven't seen it mentioned here but the Android phones have a built in Sound Quality and Effects menu.  It includes a hearing test and tune feature...

If anyone is interested they are $220 at Verizon right now.


----------



## Peddler

jasonb said:


> Picked up a Sony WF-1000XM3 from Best Buy this morning for $179. So far I'm very impressed and they sound as good as most people say. I'm using the comply foam tips that I've been using on my Lypertek Tevi's and minimal EQ to brighten them up just a hair and I like what I'm hearing. The NC is good, and the ambient sound is great. I had the WH-1000XM2 and these have a much better default sound.


Wow - I have the Sony WH1000xm2, WF1000xm3 and the Lypertek Tevi's and rate them all very highly. I don't use eq on any of them though - I enjoy each one's different sound character.

I must admit though, I really do like the WF's.


----------



## jant71

Anyone interested in Edifier X3. Gonna be $19.49 for the Ali sale) with reportedly good sound and aptX. Also 6 hours per charge and IPX5...


----------



## voicemaster

myltz400 said:


> Thanks for all the reviews and help on this addicting thread.  It is painfully obvious to me that the answer is yes, it's too early for wireless iems!
> 
> I am no audiophile and certainly like boosted sound.  Especially in earbuds. The Pratt and Whitney engine 6 feet away or lawn mower sort of kill the phonograph, tube, preamp experience with portable headphones.
> 
> ...


You would be surprised by how good the passive isolation is from gbuds+. It surprised me in several occasions.


----------



## martiniCZ (Jun 11, 2020)

Another budget ($ 20) with QCC3020 - the new compact Alien Secret  IP010-E. I was amused by the comparison with lipstick  , probably take them out of curiosity.
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4001079473461.html?spm=2114.12010612.8148356.2.605263afhfWtNy



 



Edit: I asked the seller, they don't have volume control and instead of touch control they have push button. LED on the case shows charge status by number of flashes. I'll wait for something more interesting


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

HeadphoneAddict said:


> The WF-1000XM3 price dropped to $178 for a "Limited-Time" and I almost sprung for them, but after my experience with the WF-SP800N with poor fit and sticking way out of my ears, I'm afraid to pull the trigger. They did sound good without the wings and a deep tight fit with the largest tips, but my ears wanted to keep expelling them slowly over time, and I wasn't sure that they felt that secure and safe from losing one. I have that same issue with AirPods Pro, I can use medium or large tips, but neither is very secure and they work loose over time.
> 
> The SP800N driver flex was mild and cleared itself without affecting the sound after a few seconds, but the crinkling sound made me think that they'd break after using them for a while.
> 
> ...



Still buggy AF. The WF-1000XM3 were updating the firmware and it was going slow. I put the iPhone on a wireless charger and would occasionally have to tap on the screen when it would dim, to keep it awake during the update. I forgot to check the screen and the phone was asleep and locked. Unlocked the phone and the update started again, got to the 51% where it left off, and now says the WF-1000XM3 are not connected to the app, and it wont connect even though they are connect to the iPhone. Says aborted.

This is not promising.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

webvan said:


> If you're a bit OCD about fit I'm pretty sure you will NOT like the WF-1000XM3 as these are basically the worst fitting IEMs known to man. Unless you ram them in the canal with silicone tips (it gets painful quickly) or with Complys they will simply not keep the seal unless perhaps you stay perfectly still. So the Comply's could work but a) they muffle the sound and b) they deteriorate quickly so it's a losing proposition in my book. In any case they will stick out like a sore thumb so if you didn't like that with the SP800 it won't be any better here. There are much better fitting TWS that you should try first, the MTW2, the Amazon EchoBuds, the Soundcore LP2 (especially if you don't need ANC), etc...



I'm waiting for a review sample of the MTW2 but the person that was working in it was furloughed. I didn't try the LP2 because they looked like they would stick out even worse than the Sony WF-SP800N or WF-1000XM3. I can more easily return the XM3 if I don't like them, at the local Best Buy.


----------



## voicemaster

martiniCZ said:


> Another budget ($ 20) with QCC3020 - the new compact Alien Secret  IP010-E. I was amused by the comparison with lipstick  , probably take them out of curiosity.
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4001079473461.html?spm=2114.12010612.8148356.2.605263afhfWtNy


I don't know what size is "mimi" size is??


----------



## HeadphoneAddict (Jun 10, 2020)

HeadphoneAddict said:


> Still buggy AF. The WF-1000XM3 were updating the firmware and it was going slow. I put the iPhone on a wireless charger and would occasionally have to tap on the screen when it would dim, to keep it awake during the update. I forgot to check the screen and the phone was asleep and locked. Unlocked the phone and the update started again, got to the 51% where it left off, and now says the WF-1000XM3 are not connected to the app, and it wont connect even though they are connect to the iPhone. Says aborted.
> 
> This is not promising.



Got them updated - had to disconnect them from iPhone BT and close the app, then start over. It was nice to already have the software installed and set up from the WF-SP800N that went back.

The fit is a little better than with the WF-SP800N - the SP800 would not seal when using the ear hooks, and if I removed the hooks I could get a seal but they couldn't go in deep enough without the hooks to stay sealed for long. In the past 40 minutes they are still in as tight with the largest tips as when I started (the 3rd largest of the 4 sets didn't seal as well).

The tips are more of a "torpedo shape" than mushroom or olive shape, and so you don't really know how well sealed they are in regards to security or retention until you gently tug on them and they don't move. With the SP800 I could have a seal for passive noise blocking and ANC, but a gentle tug or push on them would cause them to fall out.

(1) The sound with music is about what I remember from the SP800 - not bad, and without the slight dulled or plasticky treble sound of the APP, or metallic sound of the Gbuds+ that can be sometimes sibilant. (What I meant about APP is that cymbal strikes aren't as crisp nor float in the air but sound like a plastic drumstick not wood, and dampen out faster, and trumpets have less bite, while Gbuds+ took it too far the other way). 

The highs are smooth, and the bass is similar to my burned in Jabra 75t which after burn-in are not nearly as boomy like they were out of the box (out the box the Jabra were "Woah!"). The mids are more full than the Gbuds+, more like the Jabra 75t. The sound is slightly behind the MTW, and maybe as good as a properly EQ'd Jabra 75t.

(2) ANC is very good, and about what I experience from my APP (which would fall out almost as easily as when using the SP800 without hooks if they get bumped or touched.)

(3) Ambient has more hiss than the GBuds+ and less than the Jabra 75t, but offers a full-frequency option and not just voice-targeted ambient or transparency. I find if I turn Ambient down from 20 to 17 the hiss is much better without losing too much ambient pass through. The ambient at that settings is only slightly louder than the MTW, which is what I was looking for.

(4) They are about as comfortable as my N6P, which means tight in the ear canals if I want a seal - I may not be able to tolerate them for more than 1-2 hours at a time without a little discomfort, but right now at about 40 minutes I'm getting a slight headache from neck tension and want to take them out. I can wear the MTW, Jabra, or Samsung for hours on end with no discomfort.

So, I'm going to rest my ears, and come back to try other tips since they are set up and ready to go.


----------



## martiniCZ

voicemaster said:


> I don't know what size is "mimi" size is??


nothing strange, mimi is baby in my language


----------



## voicemaster (Jun 10, 2020)

Just bought these tiny memory foam tips from amazon for my N6P. The fit is better than my modded foam tips. Because the nozzle size of N6P is bigger than the nozzle on the tips, it provides a very tight fit and I guaranteed it won't fall off.
Here it is side by side with my newbee foam tips.
ALXCD Foam Eartips for Jabra Elite 65t Headphone, Small Size Memory Foam Ear Tips, Fit for Jabra Elite 65t Elite Active 65t (S) https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07RXKF79T/ref=cm_sw_r_wa_apa_i_UHx4Eb7JZJFAV


----------



## clerkpalmer

Using wavelet with my mtw2 and I am hearing static distortion. Is that normal? Any fixes? Very noticeable.


----------



## TheLionelHutz

voicemaster said:


> Just bought these tiny memory foam tips from amazon for my N6P. The fit is better than my modded foam tips. Because the nozzle size of N6P is bigger than the nozzle on the tips, it provides a very tight fit and I guaranteed it won't fall off.
> Here it is side by side with my newbee foam tips.
> ALXCD Foam Eartips for Jabra Elite 65t Headphone, Small Size Memory Foam Ear Tips, Fit for Jabra Elite 65t Elite Active 65t (S) https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07RXKF79T/ref=cm_sw_r_wa_apa_i_UHx4Eb7JZJFAV


Curious to know what you think of them. I tried them in my N6s and found them comfortable at first, but uncomfortable after a while listening. I still have them hanging around somewhere but haven't put them on in a while...


----------



## howdy

HeadphoneAddict said:


> Dangit!
> 
> After I wrote the above I just pulled the trigger on the XM3, because I can try them ASAP with BestBuy curbside pickup when we also go to pick up a corsair mouse same day, and if I don't like it then I can return it locally ASAP, and get a refund before my next credit card statement prints in 2 weeks.
> 
> ...


Make sure to give some time, these will grow on you. When I first bought the XM3 I didn't like them either and thought I wasn't getting a seal but I was. I have to mention that I am using Spinfits onine now and for most of the time of use. These are still my favorite of the 7 I own. Don't try to push them deep just put in and give a little downward turn and good to go.


----------



## voicemaster

TheLionelHutz said:


> Curious to know what you think of them. I tried them in my N6s and found them comfortable at first, but uncomfortable after a while listening. I still have them hanging around somewhere but haven't put them on in a while...


It is very comfortable and I am using it for 4 hours straight as I type this. I can use silicone tips on my N6P, but after an hour or so, the build up pressure start to hurt my ear. That's why i really love this tip.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

HeadphoneAddict said:


> Got them updated - had to disconnect them from iPhone BT and close the app, then start over. It was nice to already have the software installed and set up from the WF-SP800N that went back.
> 
> The fit is a little better than with the WF-SP800N - the SP800 would not seal when using the ear hooks, and if I removed the hooks I could get a seal but they couldn't go in deep enough without the hooks to stay sealed for long. In the past 40 minutes they are still in as tight with the largest tips as when I started (the 3rd largest of the 4 sets didn't seal as well).
> 
> ...





howdy said:


> Make sure to give some time, these will grow on you. When I first bought the XM3 I didn't like them either and thought I wasn't getting a seal but I was. I have to mention that I am using Spinfits onine now and for most of the time of use. These are still my favorite of the 7 I own. Don't try to push them deep just put in and give a little downward turn and good to go.



I want to like them, but if the software is going to be this buggy then I'm not sure I can do that. I got the same crap as with the WF-SP800N.

I put them into my ears, heard "battery fully charged" and then watched a video on Facebook, but after 1 minute I paused to talk to someone. I found the ambient sound was set to 20/20 with voice emphasis (more hissy and thin sounding). So I went into the Sony app and changed ambient back to 17/20 and full range ambient for whenever I'm at "home". I went back to the Facebook video and hit play, and the sound was gone. This all over a 3-4 minute period, with full battery. 

I am using an iPhone 11 Pro Max with iOS 13.5.1 and Sony firmware updated last night. Both on the latest firmware.

I checked the the Bluetooth settings and XM3 were still connected, but the app said I wasn't connected. I hit the "connect button" in the app and it says "Cannot connect". 

Went into iTunes to double check, and also can't hear anything. So, just as with the WF-SP800N I took them out of my ears and put back in the case, then took them back out and put them back into my ears. They started working again.

I returned the WF-SP800N partly because I said I need to trust my BT TWS to be there for me when I need hands free operation, and so far the WF-1000XM3 have let me down in the first 24 hours. If I have to delete the Sony app and unpair the WF-1000XM3 and start over from scratch I wont be happy. Sure, I'll do the process over again, once if needed, but not on a regular basis like I did with the SP800N.

While typing this listening to Madison Beer "Dead" I thought the sound is nice, but I had THREE 1/2 second audio dropouts with the phone 18" away from my head and XM3 before I could finish this post. The behavior and sound is a lot like the WF-SP800N, with slightly less bass - all they have going for them is that they fit a l But ittle better than the SP800 when I took the ear hooks off those, but without the water resistance.

So, if this happens again I'll unpair the XM3, delete the Sony app, reinstall the app, repair the XM3, and set up my ear shape and adaptive audio control again. But I'm already expecting a fail.


----------



## webvan

HeadphoneAddict said:


> I'm waiting for a review sample of the MTW2 but the person that was working in it was furloughed. I didn't try the LP2 because they looked like they would stick out even worse than the Sony WF-SP800N or WF-1000XM3. I can more easily return the XM3 if I don't like them, at the local Best Buy.


Yes the LP2 stick out a bit but they've got wings so they don't fall out like the XM3 as soon as you get moving.

I finally received the Bomaker SiFi II and first impressions are excellent ! For a start they stay put in my ears as I was hoping due to their "meatier" size that allows them to have some contact points inside the ears, unlike the SiFi I (or the SSKs or M5s) that are so tiny that they just float around or "pop out" if you do manage to tuck them in somehow. I can yawn and chew and the seal does not get broken, will have to test them while rindoor my indoor bike to see how that goes. I used the L size "flat" tips and the isolation is great. I'll need more listening but the sound is very pleasing out of the box, good imaging, balanced spectrum, decently pumping bass, nothing annoying for sure.
A few niggles : 
- the case is hard slippery plastic, unlike the rubbery feel of the SiFi I case and it's larger too
- they are indeed hard to get out of the case, again due to the lack of rubber on the buds, it's hard plastic
- yes the touch buttons are super sensitive, touch the side of the bud and the music gets paused. I was fine with the actual buttons of the SiFi I.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

3 hours of continuous usage for you tube videos and music has taken both WF-1000XM3 buds to 50% charge, so in track for the 6 hours promised. 

I’m typing as I’m listening to Tidal lossless streaming and I get intermittent audio dropouts every once in a while when I’m typing, and then it’s better after a short burst of dropouts. I haven’t seen that with any other BT earphone I’ve tried - only noticed it with Sony XM3 and SP800N.


----------



## RobinFood

HeadphoneAddict said:


> 3 hours of continuous usage for you tube videos and music has taken both WF-1000XM3 buds to 50% charge, so in track for the 6 hours promised.
> 
> I’m typing as I’m listening to Tidal lossless streaming and I get intermittent audio dropouts every once in a while when I’m typing, and then it’s better after a short burst of dropouts. I haven’t seen that with any other BT earphone I’ve tried - only noticed it with Sony XM3 and SP800N.



I had similar issues on my phone with the xm3, but it is rock solid on my dap using AAC, not so solid on SBC though, and my Android phone doesn't do AAC.

Are you connecting in SBC or AAC?
Most people with iPhones seem to have it rock solid like my DAP on AAC.

I don't use the xm3 with my phone anymore, next upgrade I might go for an iPhone or a more music focused Android phone.


----------



## FlowLikeWater

HeadphoneAddict said:


> 3 hours of continuous usage for you tube videos and music has taken both WF-1000XM3 buds to 50% charge, so in track for the 6 hours promised.
> 
> I’m typing as I’m listening to Tidal lossless streaming and I get intermittent audio dropouts every once in a while when I’m typing, and then it’s better after a short burst of dropouts. I haven’t seen that with any other BT earphone I’ve tried - only noticed it with Sony XM3 and SP800N.


weird, i get similar behavior with nuarl n6 pro, intermittent dropouts in first 20 minutes of listening, but after that consistent connection


----------



## bronco1015

HeadphoneAddict said:


> Thanks.
> (1) I worry that I'd not be able to get over the size (thick and long), which was an issue for the WF-SP800N for me, and why I haven't tried the Liberty Pro 2 either. And,
> (2) I do think if the WF-SP800N were trying to come out of my ears (without the wings) that the WF-1000XM3 will too. They were secure with the wings but with no seal, and the some of the reviews complained about them coming loose, and
> (3) I did have Bluetooth cut outs with the WF-SP800N and some of the reviews complained about that too.
> ...


Having had both the XM3 and l2P, my experience was that the L2P fit much better than the XM3. i think part of it was the way you slightly twist to gethem in place, as well as the nozzle being slightly angled differently than the XM3,  plus they come with fins that i found very beneficial. i had the medium fins and smallest tips on IIRC. Only reason i got rid of them was because i got the N6P. But i kinda wish i'd kept them.


----------



## bronco1015 (Jun 11, 2020)

clerkpalmer said:


> Using wavelet with my mtw2 and I am hearing static distortion. Is that normal? Any fixes? Very noticeable.


yeah it's common with a lot of presets. Regardless which TWE or headphone i use. i basicly only use treble booster and bright EQ settings with that app. If you have the Anbes 350 laying around still, try them on bright setting. For me it made a huge difference in the SQ. Same with my QC35. Already liked listening to both, but with that preset, they both get some welcome changes to their sound signatures.


----------



## eiraku (Jun 11, 2020)

bronco1015 said:


> Having had both the XM3 and l2P, my experience was that the L2P fit much better than the XM3. i think part of it was the way you slightly twist to gethem in place, as well as the nozzle being slightly angled differently than the XM3,  plus they come with fins that i found very beneficial. i had the medium fins and smallest tips on IIRC. Only reason i got rid of them was because i got the N6P. But i kinda wish i'd kept them.



I'm one of those people who have very little qualms with the fit of the L2Ps TBH. Sure they're kinda huge but they fit way better in my ears then my old TripFis did for sure.

The XM3s on the other hand, gave me TF10 fit PTSD... or at least the one I tested did. Granted, it was an in-store test and I didn't really get the chance to *really *tip roll so that's that.

On a other note, my dear ol' mom ended up getting herself a pair of APPs (as an upgrade from her previous Pamu Scrolls)... and they aren't bad at all TBH, at least with a cursory listen. A shame I only rock Androids myself  though so compatibility is kinda sorta iffy (not to mention they cost a pretty penny).


----------



## Dobrescu George

I have posted my video review about the MW07 PLUS as well now! 

I try my best to compare the GO vs the PLUS version, and I will also add a video about the MH40 wireless soon!


----------



## HeadphoneAddict (Jun 11, 2020)

RobinFood said:


> I had similar issues on my phone with the xm3, but it is rock solid on my dap using AAC, not so solid on SBC though, and my Android phone doesn't do AAC.
> 
> Are you connecting in SBC or AAC?
> Most people with iPhones seem to have it rock solid like my DAP on AAC.
> ...



I have my MacBook set to only use AAC, or AptX when available. My iPhone should only use AAC if the ear buds support that, but you can’t adjust the settings like with BT explorer on Macintosh. I’m going to try the XM3 on my MacBook Pro most of the day today, and tip roll too. I know my MTW connect to MacBook Pro with AptX, but I’m not sure what the XM3 will connect with.



FlowLikeWater said:


> weird, i get similar behavior with nuarl n6 pro, intermittent dropouts in first 20 minutes of listening, but after that consistent connection



My N6P don’t ever drop out, and all of my other BT wireless buds are rock solid. However, my first set of N6P had a left earbud that would not connect at all, broken right out of the box. Amazon got a replacement out to me within 3 days




bronco1015 said:


> Having had both the XM3 and l2P, my experience was that the L2P fit much better than the XM3. i think part of it was the way you slightly twist to gethem in place, as well as the nozzle being slightly angled differently than the XM3,  plus they come with fins that i found very beneficial. i had the medium fins and smallest tips on IIRC. Only reason i got rid of them was because i got the N6P. But i kinda wish i'd kept them.



Part of my concern over LP2 is how goofy they might look being that large. But, the XM3 don’t look too bad, so maybe I’ll try them if I return the XM3. If you search for all my posts on the WF-SP800N around May 21st you’ll see that size and fit was one issue but the software and firmware bugs are what pushed me over the edge.



eiraku said:


> I'm one of those people who have very little qualms with the fit of the L2Ps TBH. Sure they're kinda huge but they fit way better in my ears then my old TripFis did for sure.
> 
> The XM3s on the other hand, gave me TF10 fit PTSD... or at least the one I tested did. Granted, it was an in-store test and I didn't really get the chance to *really *tip roll so that's that.
> 
> On a other note, my dear ol' mom ended up getting herself a pair of APPs (as an upgrade from her previous Pamu Scrolls)... and they aren't bad at all TBH, at least with a cursory listen. A shame I only rock Androids myself  though so compatibility is kinda sorta iffy (not to mention they cost a pretty penny).



I always had to wear the TF10 Pro flipped upside down on the opposite ears with the cable at the top and running over my ears. I actually still have them in a box under my bed with about 15-20 other IEM, as momentos of my early journey when I decided my Shure single and dual driver IEM in 2007 weren’t enough. The TF10Pro just had too much midrange suck out for my tastes back then.

And, as for the AirPods Pro, I don’t hate them. I’d rate them close to an 7.5 or 8/10, with anything over a 7/10 being good relative to other wireless, not wired. They don’t feel super secure in my ears due to a shallow fit with either the medium or large tips; where a deeper fit with the MTW and Jabra make me feel much more secure (GBuds+ insertion depth is in between those and the APP). But I’m looking for a 9 or a 10/10.

My Westone W80 on the Westone BT V2 cable are maybe a 9/10 for wireless due to great sound but lowered because the cable gets in the way and they don’t have transparency mode. I want something that sounds just as good, but without wires or bulk and an added transparency mode, and maybe also ANC - that would push it to a 10/10. Note - The Westone BT V1 cable doesn’t have enough juice to properly drive the W80, but it can drive the W40 thru W60 albeit with less detail and space than the V2.

[edited for typos, I hate autocorrect]


----------



## jant71

HeadphoneAddict said:


> My Westone W80 on the Westone BT V2 cable are maybe a 9/10 for wireless due to great sound but lowered because the cable gets in the way and they don’t have transparency mode. I want something that sounds just as good, but without wires or bulk and an added transparency mode, and maybe also ANC - that would push it to a 10/10. Note - The Westone BT V1 cable doesn’t have enough juice to properly drive the W80, but it can drive the W40 thru W60 albeit with less detail and space than the V2.
> 
> [edited for typos, I hate autocorrect]



Once they fix that Shure TW1 and start reselling it seems that the sound and punch is quite good and it has "environment" mode.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

jant71 said:


> Once they fix that Shure TW1 and start reselling it seems that the sound and punch is quite good and it has "environment" mode.



Yeah, and I’ve been trying to plant that little birdie in the ear of Westone about doing a true wireless behind the ear adapter, but right now everyone in the music department is furloughed due to the virus pandemic.

I haven’t heard great things about the MMCX true wireless adapters out there right now. And I still think that a behind the ear adapter will be a pain in the butt when you’re trying to lay down on a pillow or on your side.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

HERE IS ANOTHER BIG GRIPE FOR WHEN WE HAVE OUR BT EARBUDS PAIRED WITH TWO OR MORE DEVICES.

You take the buds out of the case and put them in your ears to use with your phone, but they connect to your laptop in the other room. Unless it’s an apple BT earbud you can’t connect to them with your phone, until you go into the other room and disconnect them from the laptop first. 

When will they allow all BT devices to automatically disconnect from one device when you manually connect from another?

I don’t have an issue with them automatically connecting to the last device, but I do have an issue when you can’t force it to connect to another device without having to either go out of range of the last device or go to the last device and disconnect.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict (Jun 11, 2020)

WF-1000XM3 UPDATE on my thoughts:

1) They connect to the MacBook Pro with AAC, due to my BT explorer settings. I don't know why I thought these had AptX codec like my MTW.

2) I can't stand that when you switch from ANC to "ambient sound control on" with a quick tap on the left earbud that it has to SPEAK the entire command out loud before it activates ambient mode, and same with going to any other mode. I WANT IT TO BE IMMEDIATE, WITHOUT HAVING PRESS AND HOLD THE LEFT EAR BUD temporarily, which reverts to the previous mode when you take your finger off the ear bud.

3) I would like to be able to set it to skip the passive mode and only toggle between ANC or Ambient mode, like you can do with the APP where you can toggle between 2 of the 3 modes (your choice) via touch but toggle between all 3 modes if you go into the BT settings or iPhone volume control settings. I don't want to cycle between all 3 modes when touching the left ear bud - it takes more time to go from ambient to ANC than I'd like.

4) I paused a YouTube video on the Mac to write this and talk with my wife. Went back to hit play and the video plays with no sound, although the XM3 ARE connected to the Mac via BT. BAD SONY, BAD! I had to adjust the Mac volume on the touch bar and it stopped muting the sound and starting playing sound.

5) If we have single tap, double tap, triple tap, and press and hold - those 8 functions should be enough to control play/pause, skip forward/back, volume up/down, and voice assistant/ambient ANC mode. WHY DO WE NOT HAVE VOLUME CONTROL?

We can have left side to play/pause/answer/hang up with single tap, double tap skip forward, triple tap skip back, and volume down press and hold, AND use the right side to do something different like play/pause/answer/hang up with single tap, voice assistant with double tap, ambient mode with triple tap, and volume up with press and hold.


----------



## turbobb

HeadphoneAddict said:


> When will they allow all BT devices to automatically disconnect from one device when you manually connect from another?



I have the Bose SSF TWS and their Revolve+ speaker and they both allow you to manually cycle through paired devices. I really wish ALL Bluetooth devices would allow you to do this as well. The best scenario would be this in conjunction with multi-point allowing you to cycle through paired devices for each of the two connections.


----------



## TK33

HeadphoneAddict said:


> HERE IS ANOTHER BIG GRIPE FOR WHEN WE HAVE OUR BT EARBUDS PAIRED WITH TWO OR MORE DEVICES.
> 
> You take the buds out of the case and put them in your ears to use with your phone, but they connect to your laptop in the other room. Unless it’s an apple BT earbud you can’t connect to them with your phone, until you go into the other room and disconnect them from the laptop first.
> 
> ...



That is why you "need" multiple pairs!

My wife was using my Surface Pro the other day and I took my MTWs out to make a call but forgot to check to make sure my phone's Bluetooth was turned on first. Of course it connected to the Surface instead of my phone and I got whatever she was watching on You Tube instead of my call.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

TK33 said:


> That is why you "need" multiple pairs!
> 
> My wife was using my Surface Pro the other day and I took my MTWs out to make a call but forgot to check to make sure my phone's Bluetooth was turned on first. Of course it connected to the Surface instead of my phone and I got whatever she was watching on You Tube instead of my call.



I have one Sennheiser MTW paired with my iPhone, and a another set paired with my MacBook Pro


----------



## voicemaster

HeadphoneAddict said:


> I have one Sennheiser MTW paired with my iPhone, and a another set paired with my MacBook Pro


Samsung Gbuds+ can do that with no multiple pairing. When you connect to a new device, it will disconnected from previous device.


----------



## RemoGaggi

TK33 said:


> That is why you "need" multiple pairs!
> 
> My wife was using my Surface Pro the other day and I took my MTWs out to make a call but forgot to check to make sure my phone's Bluetooth was turned on first. Of course it connected to the Surface instead of my phone and I got whatever she was watching on You Tube instead of my call.



It's best to have a pair for each device.  Haha.  Right now, I use my T1x for my Desktop PC, B530 for my Ipad, GT1 Plus for my laptop, and KZ Z1 for my work laptop.  Super easy!


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

voicemaster said:


> Samsung Gbuds+ can do that with no multiple pairing. When you connect to a new device, it will disconnected from previous device.



Of course that is one of the two TW that I didn't pair with anything but my iPhone, along with Jabra 75t. I'll pair it and test that soon.


----------



## pack66 (Jun 11, 2020)

What's the consensus on the latest best budget TWS? I'm looking to try my first pair and I'm considering something with the best bang for the buck. So far, I've looked at Soundpeats Truedots ($29), Fiil T1x ($50) or the Haylou GT1 (for some reason, can't find the GT1 Plus on US Amazon). Thoughts?

edit: Additionally, would the Fiil's be worth an extra $20? Again, I'm just testing the waters and thinking about using something for when I'm riding bike or laying in bed watching YT/Netflix.


----------



## voicemaster

pack66 said:


> What's the consensus on the latest best budget TWS? I'm looking to try my first pair and I'm considering something with the best bang for the buck. So far, I've looked at Soundpeats Truedots ($29), Fiil T1x ($50) or the Haylou GT1 (for some reason, can't find the GT1 Plus on US Amazon). Thoughts?
> 
> edit: Additionally, would the Fiil's be worth an extra $20? Again, I'm just testing the waters and thinking about using something for when I'm riding bike or laying in bed watching YT/Netflix.


From those three choices, I would pick Fiil t1x simply because it sounds great, has good battery life and available on Amazon. If you are in the US, buying stuff from China right now is complete crap. I ordered haylou GT1 from Aliexpress (official store) from 05/14 and I still haven't received it yet.  The tracking is completely useless too.


----------



## pack66

voicemaster said:


> From those three choices, I would pick Fiil t1x simply because it sounds great, has good battery life and available on Amazon. If you are in the US, buying stuff from China right now is complete crap. I ordered haylou GT1 from Aliexpress (official store) from 05/14 and I still haven't received it yet.  The tracking is completely useless too.




I could have the Truedots tomorrow and have almost pulled the trigger on them. The Fiils look interesting, just not sure if I want to spend an extra $20 on something I'm not sure I'll tell the difference in sound quality.


----------



## chinmie

HeadphoneAddict said:


> WF-1000XM3 UPDATE on my thoughts:
> 
> 1) They connect to the MacBook Pro with AAC, due to my BT explorer settings. I don't know why I thought these had AptX codec like my MTW.
> 
> ...



for no. 2, you can toggle the voice notification off drom the system tab. 

i agree with you on no. 3 and no. 5. i would prefer the toggle just between ANC on and ambient only. also given that it's definitely capable, i would just prefer that the touch setting to be fully customizable instead of preset batches of command


----------



## howdy

HeadphoneAddict said:


> I want to like them, but if the software is going to be this buggy then I'm not sure I can do that. I got the same crap as with the WF-SP800N.
> 
> I put them into my ears, heard "battery fully charged" and then watched a video on Facebook, but after 1 minute I paused to talk to someone. I found the ambient sound was set to 20/20 with voice emphasis (more hissy and thin sounding). So I went into the Sony app and changed ambient back to 17/20 and full range ambient for whenever I'm at "home". I went back to the Facebook video and hit play, and the sound was gone. This all over a 3-4 minute period, with full battery.
> 
> ...


That's odd your having lots of issues with the app I never have had issues with it. Also, I to had issues with dropout when I first got them for a little bit but never ever expensive it now. I can leave my phone in my house and go out in the back yard with no issues and I have it on " priority on sound".


----------



## RemoGaggi

pack66 said:


> I could have the Truedots tomorrow and have almost pulled the trigger on them. The Fiils look interesting, just not sure if I want to spend an extra $20 on something I'm not sure I'll tell the difference in sound quality.


You will definitely be able to tell the difference.  The Fiil T1x are excellent, not just for the sound, but the build quality, and rock solid connection.  I also have the Haylou GT1 Plus, and they sound really good too, but not quite as good as the T1X.  But, the build quality is light cheap plastic compared to the Fiil and the BT connection is nowhere near as good as the Fiil.  It's worth the $20 to get the Fiil T1X.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Well the XM3 audio dropouts stopped today. I also am now using the foam tips, but worry about how long they will last and what I should use when they wear out. 

Also, all of a sudden, after turning off the XM3 and updating my iPhone to iOS 13.5.1 and MacBook Pro 16 inch to Mac OS X 10.15.5 I can now switch the XM3 back and forth between iPhone and MacBook without having to disconnect from the one I was previously using!
Is this new, am I imagining this is new?


----------



## pack66

Thanks RemoGaggi...ended up seeing your last post after I purchased...Bomaker Sifi 2's. Very tempted with the Fiils and maybe I'll wish I had purchased them instead...but I like the idea of IPX7 as we have a pool. Thanks again for your input, if the Sifi 2's don't work out, the T1Xs or possibly the Soundpeats (either Trueshift 2 or the Truedots) will be next up.


----------



## bronco1015

HeadphoneAddict said:


> Of course that is one of the two TW that I didn't pair with anything but my iPhone, along with Jabra 75t. I'll pair it and test that soon.


One of the selling points of the 75T IMO is the fact that it has multipoint like many if not all Bose Bluetooth products. i was gonna suggest you update your IOS on your phone, but i see in a later post you already have. Glad the XM3 are working better. AS far as the L2P being goofy? I don't feel they are at all. The Sonys stuck out further,as they were mor straight out and not secured like the L2P. IF you need another pair, grab one. you'll probably want to eq the bass down as it is pretty boomy unless Anker changed the default tuning. They're a great product IMO.


----------



## AudioNoob

bronco1015 said:


> One of the selling points of the 75T IMO is the fact that it has multipoint like many if not all Bose Bluetooth products


I wish others brought in multipoint but Im not going to hold my breath. Is it a matter of bandwidth, why don't we have it?


----------



## RemoGaggi

Pack66, congrats on the SiFi2!  From what I've read, you can't go wrong with these!  In fact, I just bought a pair of SiFi2 also (to feed my addiction).  Mine will hopefully arrive this weekend and I will be able to share my impressions.


----------



## Luke Skywalker

FlowLikeWater said:


> +1, N6 pro got buttery smooth yet detailed sound sig, great tonality with decent detail
> 
> it does have very minor hiss though, only downside.


That's interesting, I haven't noticed a hiss... I wonder if it depends on what source you're connected to?  99% of the time I'm bluetooth AAC to my iPhone 7, playing Tidal or Qobuz


----------



## Caipirina

Funny all this renewed talk about the WFXM3.
Based on the apparent fit issues of the new sp800n (happy for those who are getting a good fit) and finding a ‘like new’ pair of xm3 on amazon warehouse for 140€ also made me pull the trigger and I shall have them tomorrow 
Now, would I also need the tortoise shell M&D mw07 for 140€ ? 
I think I am finally done with yet another 20$ ‘deal’ from AE, though I might finally get in of the Fiil t1x, 60$ at sale after 3$ coupon.


----------



## Luke Skywalker

voicemaster said:


> Just bought these tiny memory foam tips from amazon for my N6P. The fit is better than my modded foam tips. Because the nozzle size of N6P is bigger than the nozzle on the tips, it provides a very tight fit and I guaranteed it won't fall off.
> Here it is side by side with my newbee foam tips.
> ALXCD Foam Eartips for Jabra Elite 65t Headphone, Small Size Memory Foam Ear Tips, Fit for Jabra Elite 65t Elite Active 65t (S) https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07RXKF79T/ref=cm_sw_r_wa_apa_i_UHx4Eb7JZJFAV


nice dude!  The Acoustune tips are absolutely amazing with N6P


----------



## Luke Skywalker

RemoGaggi said:


> It's best to have a pair for each device.  Haha.  Right now, I use my T1x for my Desktop PC, B530 for my Ipad, GT1 Plus for my laptop, and KZ Z1 for my work laptop.  Super easy!


Ya me too.  The XM3's suck a*s for music but I must admit the noise canceling and call quality are superb


----------



## AudioNoob (Jun 12, 2020)

Earfun is running a discount they just sent me (I had reviewed their last pair),thought id share. I haven't tested the 2020 update with better mic, solo LR, tweaked sound signature, and volume control. 

They are not the most resolving but they are a nice package with good manuals, intuitive interface and documentation and are well presented in case someone is looking to get a gift. They also have wireless charging in a pretty small package. 
EarFun Free: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07R5MKX3K
Regular price: $49.99
Deal price: *$34.79 * (amazon sell price has been dropped to $39.99, and we give a discount code to give extra 13%OFF, so price will be $34.79)
Discount code: *TECH4DAD*


----------



## howdy

I got some Complys in for the Tevis and yep, Comply still suck, for me anyway. I just tried the tips that came with my LP2s and so far so good on the Tevis.


----------



## hifi80sman (Jun 12, 2020)

Caipirina said:


> Funny all this renewed talk about the WFXM3.
> Based on the apparent fit issues of the new sp800n (happy for those who are getting a good fit) and finding a ‘like new’ pair of xm3 on amazon warehouse for 140€ also made me pull the trigger and I shall have them tomorrow
> Now, would I also need the tortoise shell M&D mw07 for 140€ ?
> I think I am finally done with yet another 20$ ‘deal’ from AE, though I might finally get in of the Fiil t1x, 60$ at sale after 3$ coupon.


No luck with a good fit on the SP800N?  I must be one of the few that gets a nice, comfy fit.  The XM3 slowly dislodged and for me, Comply tips are uncomfortable.  I'm a silicon guy.  Somehow, that sounds dirty.


----------



## bduckyy

pack66 said:


> What's the consensus on the latest best budget TWS? I'm looking to try my first pair and I'm considering something with the best bang for the buck. So far, I've looked at Soundpeats Truedots ($29), Fiil T1x ($50) or the Haylou GT1 (for some reason, can't find the GT1 Plus on US Amazon). Thoughts?
> 
> edit: Additionally, would the Fiil's be worth an extra $20? Again, I'm just testing the waters and thinking about using something for when I'm riding bike or laying in bed watching YT/Netflix.


I was about to pull the trigger on the t1x a week ago but found out there is a t1xs out already although already out of stock. Sound wise, I think they would be the same but the t1xs has some new features. Smaller case, auto stop, and dual mics are worth the wait in my book. The monitor mode is pretty interesting too. While I love good noise isolation, having to pause and take out your earphones to hear something sucks.


----------



## howdy

Do the air pod pros have any bass? I've been considering getting them but I gotta have some bass, doesn't need to be bass head type but warm sounding.


----------



## bedlamite (Jun 13, 2020)

Luke Skywalker said:


> Ya me too.  The XM3's suck a*s for music but I must admit the noise canceling and call quality are superb


Really? How are they bad? I initially didn't think they were great either because vocals sounded a bit too metallic, but I finally applied some EQ (lowered the 400 and 1k Hz regions) and these sound much better now.

Fit issues will also degrade sound quality, if these don't fit your ears well then no amount of sound tweaking will make the WFs good. The Spinfit CP360s have worked well for me, but then, everybody has differently sized ears...just gotta find tips that'll fit yours.


----------



## assassin10000

Luke Skywalker said:


> Ya me too.  The XM3's suck a*s for music but I must admit the noise canceling and call quality are superb



Turn the EQ on. Even if it's just flat or only a change to clear bass. This enables the onboard DSP and makes them sound way better at the cost of run time.


----------



## FYLegend

Curious what are the overall impressions of the 1More ANC now? Currently on sale on Amazon.ca for 237$ CAD + 15$ coupon (however, the coupon was 20% earlier this week!)

It does seem to me like TWS on Amazon.ca is being deserted post-COVID aside from some bogus listings here and there. It barely picked up before that.



voicemaster said:


> Samsung Gbuds+ can do that with no multiple pairing. When you connect to a new device, it will disconnected from previous device.


It's nice in principle but annoyingly Windows 10 forces the Buds+ to disconnect from my phone whenever I power my laptop on. The new update yesterday allows you to disable this but they just behave like a typical TWS now. Still no SQ improvements on Windows 10 though...


----------



## SoundChoice

Caipirina said:


> I just happened to come across the Tronsmart Spunky Beats on German amazon ... yesterday they were on flash deal for 25€, they are now back at 32. These are really good (check reviews here, and they have aptx!) and their profile is pretty flush with the ears, should work under earmuffs ... (such a Scandinavian question to ask in JUNE  are you getting your summer-earmuffs out for the beach?  )


Really good sound, but sensors so sensitive to touch that contact with your ear turns it off


----------



## hifi80sman (Jun 13, 2020)

howdy said:


> Do the air pod pros have any bass? I've been considering getting them but I gotta have some bass, doesn't need to be bass head type but warm sounding.


Yep, they have bass, but it's not a hard hitting in-your-face bass, rather, it's a little soft/mushy, although it does go a tad into the sub-bass region.  Bass quantity is good and enough for me (I like a little more thump in the trunk).  Mids are their best attribute, which are present and the signature tilts warm.  They are a good sounding 'bud with very good ANC and call quality.  Overall, a solid package.

One irritant, is the case gets micro abrasions remarkably easily.  Even wiping with a soft cloth will scuff it up with small micro scratches.  If you go for these, I'd recommend getting a case.


----------



## Floris888

How are Galaxy Buds Plus!?


----------



## tma6

Floris888 said:


> How are Galaxy Buds Plus!?



Review coming this weekend


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Floris888 said:


> How are Galaxy Buds Plus!?





tma6 said:


> Review coming this weekend



I find they have a slight U-shape frequency response and sometimes (not always) they sound a little sibilant. So they are a fun sounding ear bud, but can get fatiguing with some recordings.

But overall I decided to keep them and play with them longer due to their decent sound, good comfort and Isolation, very programmable touch pads, decent transparency mode, tiny size, and Qi charging. They’re a lot of bang for the buck.

It’s too bad about the terrible EQ choices in the Samsung app - The “bass boost“ and the “soft“ settings help the treble, but also make them sound doll and bland. So I don’t do any EQ - if the source material is too dark sounding I’m usually surprised, but the “dynamic” EQ can fix dark recordings nicely (one of my Van Morrison recordings for example, and some of my old VBR MP3 new age recordings).  

The EQ in the Jabra 75t or XM3 apps is noticeably better for getting proper sound out of them. In comparison, the 75T also has somewhat U-shaped frequency response that can be 100% fixed with EQ unlike the Samsung.

The XM3 are not bad without EQ, but upping the clear bass to +3 or +4 makes them more fun. Only occasionally would I bump the top treble slider so it’s easier to leave the slider set to flat.

I’m still not sure about the fit on the XM three, because I really have to twist and wedge them into my ears with the large foam tips or the largest silicone tips. Just pushing them in doesn’t get me a solid seal like the Samsung, Jabra or Sennheiser which all work for me with medium tips.


----------



## webvan

So I rode my bike indoor on a smart trainer with a lot of sweating (yes I have a fan) and I'm happy to report that the Bomaker SiFi II stayed lodged in pretty well with the L shallow tips. I may have adjusted them a couple of times but nothing annoying. I'd say they hold even better than the MTW2 or the EchoBuds. I'm glad Bomaker went away from the trendy tiny TWS that really serves no good purpose I can think of apart from looking nice.


----------



## TheLionelHutz

Just ordered the Astrotec S90 Pro from Linsoul -- $85 out the door thanks to their mid-year sale. Very excited to try them out, will def post impressions when I get them.


----------



## marcusd

Our review of the Whizzer B6 and its unusual cradle is now published 

https://headfonics.com/whizzer-b6-review/


----------



## howdy

HeadphoneAddict said:


> I find they have a slight U-shape frequency response and sometimes (not always) they sound a little sibilant. So they are a fun sounding ear bud, but can get fatiguing with some recordings.
> 
> But overall I decided to keep them and play with them longer due to their decent sound, good comfort and Isolation, very programmable touch pads, decent transparency mode, tiny size, and Qi charging. They’re a lot of bang for the buck.
> 
> ...


Do you have any Spinfits? That's what I use on mine and they stay put and I don't jam them in at all. The most vigorous activity I do with them though is do yard work.


----------



## DigDub

Firmware updates for both original galaxy buds and buds+. Added some auto connection thingy to phones which are signed in to Samsung account. Sound wise, buds+ is unchanged. For the original buds, it has a tad more bass which adds more meat to the sound and sound stage seems wider now.


----------



## howdy

Man, now that I have a good seal all the time with the Tevis I'm liking them a lot! Glad I got them and finally found a tip that works. 
If anyone has the Tevis and has a poor seal and also happens to have the Liberty 2 Pros, the tips are perfect for the Tevis.


----------



## clerkpalmer

TheLionelHutz said:


> Just ordered the Astrotec S90 Pro from Linsoul -- $85 out the door thanks to their mid-year sale. Very excited to try them out, will def post impressions when I get them.


How'd you get that price? That's an expensive headset. Interested.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

howdy said:


> Do you have any Spinfits? That's what I use on mine and they stay put and I don't jam them in at all. The most vigorous activity I do with them though is do yard work.



I wouldn't know what size nozzle, or to get med or large.


----------



## jant71

clerkpalmer said:


> How'd you get that price? That's an expensive headset. Interested.



 Thinkin' they got the gift card so - $50 plus the code gets you $15 or 10%. Would be nice but seems only $135 if you missed that tiny window to buy the gift cards 50% off.


----------



## clerkpalmer (Jun 13, 2020)

jant71 said:


> Thinkin' they got the gift card so - $50 plus the code gets you $15 or 10%. Would be nice but seems only $135 if you missed that tiny window to buy the gift cards 50% off.


Yeah I saw tbe gift card thing. Too much hassle. Too complicated. Just give me a discount or don't. Don't make it so complicated. 135 plus no returns is too risky for me.


----------



## howdy

HeadphoneAddict said:


> I wouldn't know what size nozzle, or to get med or large.


Yeah, not sure there. I use large as I have big ears on my big head. I'm a 5'11" 260lb guy, not sure if that matters to the size of your ears..


----------



## myltz400

howdy said:


> Do the air pod pros have any bass? I've been considering getting them but I gotta have some bass, doesn't need to be bass head type but warm sounding.



After the last update the bass is back.  They also have a "sparkle" that was missing before the 2D15 update, I find myself just enjoying them and not analyzing them all the time.  I think this has happens when you finally find the best ones for your tastes.  I have held on to the AAPs and believe it or not the Echo buds, I like them for different reasons.


----------



## miXwui

Got the Buds+ yesterday and have been using them extensively for the last 24hrs; thanks to @jkjk123 for selling me his new pair! Very lengthy writeup below!

*Sound preferences are highly opinionated, so here's some context:*
I love and prefer neutral sound, probably on the brighter side. (mostly listen to everything on my JBL LSR305 reference monitors, and the FLC 8S which...I lost in March on a flight. Loved/used them for some years *cries*. Initially used gold/red? filters for that oomph, but later switched it up to gray/gray? for neutrality iirc. I also owned/went through the GR06/GR07/GR07BE, which is a sound signature I adore (as most do).

I value separation, detail, and clarity above all, and I prefer something that will do everything equally well over something singular like heavy-hitting/clean bass. I listen to all genres, but mostly a lot of electronic music which have all types of instruments/vocals and covers the full frequency spectrum in a single track/mix/set, which should explain my preferences.

I've had a cheap BT Aukey and Anker beater $25 pairs for the gym -- surprisingly the Anker Soundbuds Slim+ have been the most comfortable set I've ever worn (strangely that's now one of my benchmarks for comfort) Fidue A83, probably worst.

First TWE I've owned, picked after extensive research. Haven't had the chance to really listen to other TWEs yet, unfortunately (maybe fortunately).

*Here's my first 24 hour Buds+ journey:
Initial impressions:* light in ear, great battery life to mitigate dead-earphone-anxiety, compact. Magnets are weak, if you drop it on anything solid a few feet in the air, the case can open then close in an instant while buds fly out. I read someone lost them first day because without noticing, so be aware! Ambient mode I can see being very useful, but is treble heavy/unnatural/robotic sounding. The 4 levels of ambient volume levels is super nice (with the extra loud option in the labs. It's neat, but maybe gimmicky. Like superhuman levels of hearing lol).

*Audio BT/lag issues:*
Also, I had audio lag issues while watching Youtube/videos on Windows 10 (out of sync voice/lip). Thought these were unusable at first. Was already on the latest firmware update. Not sure if it just fixed itself later via proper codec negotiation, or if I got used to it, or cause I did this possible fix, or all of the above but they seem ok now:
https://www.reddit.com/r/galaxybuds/comments/b4vx3c/audio_delay_with_windows_10_laptop/ermyv0y/
If someone wants me to test them with games like FPS, holler at me - too lazy lol.
(I had some very slight/short BT audio dropouts with my laptop (Matebook X Pro 2018, Win10) from a distance (5-10 feet away). I think it may be the laptop, as my Pixel 1 (yes 1) is completely fine.

*First listen, sound quality, did not like at all*:
Initially, I was very disappointed with the sound quality. Thought maybe all the online reviewers didn't know what they were talking about. Maybe they aren't audiophile material, consumer oriented, etc. etc. Ugh!

    1. Tried the medium tips. Wasn't getting a good seal, immediately switched to large tips. (I normally wear medium, and switched back to medium -- more on this below).
    2. Normal EQ sounded flat, everything sort of muddled together. Very bleh, thought they were horrible.
    3. Turned on Dynamic EQ like many suggest and prefer

Crinacle says the Buds+ sound like "bitcrush" and that's probably a good description, but he didn't say what EQ he was using. I thought it was maybe just bluetooth compression, but prob nah.

So on Dynamic EQ: Voice by itself in e.g. Youtube was clean. But with music, a different story. Lows by itself was heavy-hitting, satisfying, and clean (imo the Buds+ does this *extremely well*, among the best I've heard). But I felt that it lifts/pronounces the low and high ends __too much__ to the detriment of the mids. Probably enjoyable for the average consumers.

I don't think soundstage is a strength on these. Made worse with the (great) bass/sub-bass creeping into the mids. I think that might be why it sounded compressed and unpleasant to me -- I wasn't satisfied at all. Also I can definitely see how they can be fatiguing on dynamic mode, though I didn't find it too much of a deal (I do prefer brightness). So I switched back to Normal EQ for a bit, which probably after my ears adjusted, wasn't as bad as my initial impression, but still bad. Went back to Dynamic, tried out Clear EQ very briefly was alright, didn't think much of it (more on this below!) Fell asleep with them in my ears.

*Next day* I tried them out, my opinions didn't change. So I tip rolled -- went through a bunch of old silicone tips I have from who knows where. My opinion is that double-flange and foam tips are best because they have the highest chance for a good seal, but unfortunately they don't allow the Buds+ to fit in the charging case or work well with the wingtips. Could try cutting or getting shallow fit foam tips, but it's easy to get a good seal with silicone tips on the Buds+:

*Tip rolling and mastering fit:*
Initially the fit hurt with the large Samsung tips, and I was having a bit of discomfort. I learned how to properly fit these to my ears: the large size tips were providing a good seal, but didn't allow the Buds+ to go deeper into my canal. So I switched back to medium sized tips, which allowed me to really push them further into my canals and lock the wing-tip below that thing-that-sticks-out-of-your ear (I will call it "ear-thing"). 

I also read somewhere on Reddit of discomfort and that it helps to instead of sticking them in with the wingtips above your "ear thing", then rotating them to your rear to lock them in, _try to start with the wingtips below the "ear thing", insert into ear, then rotate them towards my front_ until they lock into ear. They're very secure, none of that iem slowly creeping out of your ear when you chew/move etc. Take off shirt, no big deal, flick them with a finger, no big deal. Probably will get used to it in a couple days like I've read (when it gets softer, or my ears callus? :/) I also tried softening the wingtips with my fingers.

*Tip on experimental/lab side tap volume adjustment *
I couldn't figure out the experimental/lab feature to tap the side to adjust volume up/down. Until I had the proper wing-tip locked into ear position -- now I find works very well (works on both phone and Win10!). The trick is to give a semi-forceful, downwards tap (twice) at the top edge of the buds. Like if the buds were a joystick sticking out of your ear.

Eventually settled on these tips (no idea where they're from). Compared to the stock Samsung tips, you can see that the nozzle is a lot bigger -- *seems to help open the sound, slight improvement*. I prefer them. Not sure why the Samsung tips have such a small hole, that doesn't match the size of the Buds nozzle? Maybe to keep earwax out? (Left is stock Samsung, right is I have no idea where from):






Spent today listening to music, then started listening to a dnb (drum and bass) mix with vocals (which I think is a good overall litmus test for my preferences. Tests bass, many different types of sounds, fast-paced, plus male and female vocals. Again, on Dynamic EQ, lows were amazing, highs were good, but overall it just sounded off -- the mids. Really imo ruins the whole package, and wasn't giving me that "I want to keep listening to this music" feeling. Semi-fatiguing.

*The major saving grace to Buds+ sound quality, imo:*
Buuuuuut I had read a single comment on all of the internet about Dynamic EQ great for original Buds but too much for Buds+, and someone using the Clear EQ for Buds+. And this EQ is my saving grace for the Buds+, rounding out the entire journey. I find it strikes a nice balance between normal and dynamic. Extra clarity (obviously) brings out that needed sparkle that Normal EQ lacks. Bass isn't as satisfying, but still very good, allowing the mids to breathe. Bass boost, Treble boost, and Soft EQs imo don't even bother, they don't fix the problems, just exaggerate.

I wish Samsung provided a fully customizable EQ in the Wear app. Thankfully the EQ presets stick to the Buds+ across devices. I was semi-interested in Jabra 75T for this, also for multipoint (which I've read mixed reviews on), but I've gotten the impression that Jabra's durability/QC isn't great. (read the online reviews regarding hardware/software issues on both the 65T and 75T audio-hiss, etc.).

Also, (really trying to make myself not try the 75T haha) the battery of the Buds+ seems like it can be replaced fairly easily:
https://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/Samsung+Galaxy+Buds++Teardown/132702

Whereas the 75T (seems like you have to physically cut the housing) and maybe others won't be so easy. Definitely a concern for me with the longevity of TWEs.
65T: https://electronics360.globalspec.com/article/13996/teardown-jabra-elite-65t
75T: https://fccid.io/BCE-OTE120/Internal-Photos/Internal-photographs-1-of-2-4477902

*TL;DR: Was disappointed, almost threw in the towel with the Buds+. Thankfully a mixture of tip rolling, proper fit semi-unique to the Buds/+, probably ears adjusting, and most of all Clear EQ saved it. Really give it a chance!*


----------



## chavan123168

Any love for the M&D MW07 Go? Just picked them up on sale at Best Buy and they are easily the best sounding out of the box TWS I have heard. Don’t think I will need to EQ these at all.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

howdy said:


> Yeah, not sure there. I use large as I have big ears on my big head. I'm a 5'11" 260lb guy, not sure if that matters to the size of your ears..



But is the nozzle a 4mm, or 4.5mm, or smaller, to fit the Sony XM3?


----------



## voicemaster

miXwui said:


> Got the Buds+ yesterday and have been using them extensively for the last 24hrs; thanks to @jkjk123 for selling me his new pair! Very lengthy writeup below!
> 
> *Sound preferences are highly opinionated, so here's some context:*
> I love and prefer neutral sound, probably on the brighter side. (mostly listen to everything on my JBL LSR305 reference monitors, and the FLC 8S which...I lost in March on a flight. Loved/used them for some years *cries*. Initially used gold/red? filters for that oomph, but later switched it up to gray/gray? for neutrality iirc. I also owned/went through the GR06/GR07/GR07BE, which is a sound signature I adore (as most do).
> ...


Download and install "wavelet" EQ from playstore and turn on Auto EQ, choose Galaxy Buds Plus and enjoy!!


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

HeadphoneAddict said:


> I find they have a slight U-shape frequency response and sometimes (not always) they sound a little sibilant. So they are a fun sounding ear bud, but can get fatiguing with some recordings.
> 
> But overall I decided to keep them and play with them longer due to their decent sound, good comfort and Isolation, very programmable touch pads, decent transparency mode, tiny size, and Qi charging. They’re a lot of bang for the buck.
> 
> ...





miXwui said:


> Got the Buds+ yesterday and have been using them extensively for the last 24hrs; thanks to @jkjk123 for selling me his new pair! Very lengthy writeup below!
> 
> *Sound preferences are highly opinionated, so here's some context:*
> I love and prefer neutral sound, probably on the brighter side. (mostly listen to everything on my JBL LSR305 reference monitors, and the FLC 8S which...I lost in March on a flight. Loved/used them for some years *cries*. Initially used gold/red? filters for that oomph, but later switched it up to gray/gray? for neutrality iirc. I also owned/went through the GR06/GR07/GR07BE, which is a sound signature I adore (as most do).
> ...



I'd agree with your Gbuds+ impressions for the most part. I do find they're very secure with a good fit, although I'm going to other tips to see if it helps with sound quality.

In my last post I thought the frequency response was a somewhat U-shaped, which means not enough midrange vs the bass and treble, and the treble can be a little sibilant sometimes. They work best at low volumes, where the frequency response is like having a loudness control to bump bass and treble so it doesn't disappear.

I've also commented about the poor EQ many times, as none of the settings fixes the treble-bite although you can brings the mids forward slightly with Dynamic, that also makes the treble worse. I've complained before about the ambience mode being a little too treble oriented as well. 

If not for the feature rich option set I might return them.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

voicemaster said:


> Download and install "wavelet" EQ from playstore and turn on Auto EQ, choose Galaxy Buds Plus and enjoy!!


No love for iPhone users. But, iPhone built-in EQ "Piano" helps a bit. Samsung NEEDS to up their game with a 5, 8, or 10 band EQ.


----------



## voicemaster

HeadphoneAddict said:


> No love for iPhone users. But, iPhone built-in EQ "Piano" helps a bit. Samsung NEEDS to up their game with a 5, 8, or 10 band EQ.


99% of TWS that cost $100+ need to up their game really. Not just Samsung.


----------



## miXwui

voicemaster said:


> Download and install "wavelet" EQ from playstore and turn on Auto EQ, choose Galaxy Buds Plus and enjoy!!



Thanks for the suggestion! I've heard Wavelet tossed around (I've read your prior posts, very helpful).
Just tried it out. However, the Auto EQ seems to add on top of the Samsung preset EQs? E.g. if I turn on Auto EQ in Wavelet, and switch the EQ in Samsung Gear App, I can notice the EQs switch. But Auto EQ is still definitely affecting the sound quality, additively, _on top of the Samsung Preset EQs_.

Nonetheless, I like my gear to be able to function well and similar from source to source, so I generally don't like using EQs. Even if I customized the perfect EQ via Wavelet or another app, I'd have to then copy the settings to other devices like my computer (I frequently switch between the two).

A bit different in TWE land now! The preset EQs in the Samsung App fortunately stick (Buds+ not Buds) when switching devices. Jabra 75T's custom equalizer I believe sticks, which is the ideal.



HeadphoneAddict said:


> I'd agree with your Gbuds+ impressions for the most part. I do find they're very secure with a good fit, although I'm going to other tips to see if it helps with sound quality.
> 
> In my last post I thought the frequency response was a somewhat U-shaped, which means not enough midrange vs the bass and treble, and the treble can be a little sibilant sometimes. They work best at low volumes, where the frequency response is like having a loudness control to bump bass and treble so it doesn't disappear.
> 
> ...



I've also read most of your recent posts, also very helpful!

U-shaped, definitely agreed. Fortunately for me, I prefer treble -- I also find the Clear EQ brings out the mids without bringing out the high/treble nearly as much vs Dynamic EQ. Seems to me, for bringing out a brightness/sparkle it goes: Normal -> Clear -> Dynamic (I won't mention the other presets because I think they're trashcan). Or are my ears broken haha



HeadphoneAddict said:


> No love for iPhone users. But, iPhone built-in EQ "Piano" helps a bit. Samsung NEEDS to up their game with a 5, 8, or 10 band EQ.



Yes please make this happen @samsung (not actually Samsung..unless?) where are you Samsung

So I came across this yesterday:
https://www.reddit.com/r/galaxybuds/comments/gzzj2o/pc_unofficial_buds_manager_for_windows_released/
https://github.com/ThePBone/GalaxyBudsClient

It only works for the original Buds, because the guy who created it doesn't own the Buds+.

Interesting quote: "[1] There are actually 10 EQ-Presets, not 5. If a Samsung Android device has Dolby enabled, then another set of presets will be used. It is unknown if those extra presets actually are different from the normal ones, but according to the Wearable app, these presets seem to be optimized for use with Dolby. (Note that the Wearable app will automatically reset this feature once connected to a non-Samsung mobile device (with Dolby disabled) when attempting to switch EQ presets in the app)"

Theoretically, Samsung can provide a custom EQ where the settings can be stored on the device. App update and perhaps a firmware update depending on how the earbuds store the EQ. But will they actually do this? That would make these close to perfect imo, which sadly isn't a company's agenda. Please prove me wrong _Samsung_!

I'm going to look into this for the Buds+, would be amazing if Samsung had the ability for custom EQ already in the firmware, but not enabled in the app yet.


----------



## TK33

chavan123168 said:


> Any love for the M&D MW07 Go? Just picked them up on sale at Best Buy and they are easily the best sounding out of the box TWS I have heard. Don’t think I will need to EQ these at all.



I still use mine all the time when grilling, working outdoors, doing dishes, commuting in rainy weather (pre-COVID-19), etc.  Got it for the IPX rating and small size when it first came out (had battery issues with my first pair, returned and bought another one a few months later).  I really like the sound and I feel like it complements my MTWs well, although I prefer the SQ of my MTWs still over the MW07 Go. I find the treble on the MW07 Go a bit splashy and artificial sounding sometimes and really with they had a companion app with some EQ. The mic on the MW07 Go also leaves alot to be desired so I would recommend something else for calls. 

When I was commuting, I would usually keep the MW07 Go and MTW (and sometimes the SE846) in my backpack and rotated between them depending on the situation and the mood I was in.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

miXwui said:


> Thanks for the suggestion! I've heard Wavelet tossed around (I've read your prior posts, very helpful).
> Just tried it out. However, the Auto EQ seems to add on top of the Samsung preset EQs? E.g. if I turn on Auto EQ in Wavelet, and switch the EQ in Samsung Gear App, I can notice the EQs switch. But Auto EQ is still definitely affecting the sound quality, additively, _on top of the Samsung Preset EQs_.
> 
> Nonetheless, I like my gear to be able to function well and similar from source to source, so I generally don't like using EQs. Even if I customized the perfect EQ via Wavelet or another app, I'd have to then copy the settings to other devices like my computer (I frequently switch between the two).
> ...


My only problem with "clear" setting is that the bass goes down and they sound less energetic overall. Samsung is going to get feedback from me soon, asking for a custom EQ in the app that sticks whenever and wherever we use them.


----------



## miXwui

HeadphoneAddict said:


> My only problem with "clear" setting is that the bass goes down and they sound less energetic overall. Samsung is going to get feedback from me soon, asking for a custom EQ in the app that sticks whenever and wherever we use them.



Agreed, though I crudely compensate the "less energetic" by raising the volume up a notch, haha.

Is this via Samsung's website, or do you also have a connection at Samsung? If the latter, +1 from me!


----------



## chinmie

miXwui said:


> TL;DR: Was disappointed, almost threw in the towel with the Buds+. Thankfully a mixture of tip rolling, proper fit semi-unique to the Buds/+, probably ears adjusting, and most of all Clear EQ saved it. Really give it a chance!



same, if i was limited to only the stock tips of the Gbuds, i would not like it at all. sounds weird on the treble and can't seem to have a solid seal. now i use a wide bore tips on the Gbuds and really like them


----------



## DigDub

miXwui said:


> Got the Buds+ yesterday and have been using them extensively for the last 24hrs; thanks to @jkjk123 for selling me his new pair! Very lengthy writeup below!
> 
> *Sound preferences are highly opinionated, so here's some context:*
> I love and prefer neutral sound, probably on the brighter side. (mostly listen to everything on my JBL LSR305 reference monitors, and the FLC 8S which...I lost in March on a flight. Loved/used them for some years *cries*. Initially used gold/red? filters for that oomph, but later switched it up to gray/gray? for neutrality iirc. I also owned/went through the GR06/GR07/GR07BE, which is a sound signature I adore (as most do).
> ...


I think you'd be happier with the original galaxy buds with spinfit 360 tips and dynamic EQ. Overall a more balanced sound. The buds+ sounds more exciting with boosted low end and bright treble which can be fatiguing over long listening sessions, while the original gbuds sound more balanced and more engaging.


----------



## howdy

HeadphoneAddict said:


> But is the nozzle a 4mm, or 4.5mm, or smaller, to fit the Sony XM3?


Spinfit CP-100


----------



## Robius

Weirdest looking tws award goes to...

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4001119453701.htm


----------



## McCol

Delivered this morning


----------



## chinmie

Robius said:


> Weirdest looking tws award goes to...
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4001119453701.htm



it's a clone of the MW07


----------



## ggpete

So my mpow's t5 finally gave up, anything in the same price bracket or cheaper worth looking into?


----------



## Sebulr

ggpete said:


> So my mpow's t5 finally gave up, anything in the same price bracket or cheaper worth looking into?


Yes, the bomaker sifi, are wonderful.


----------



## webvan

Robius said:


> Weirdest looking tws award goes to...
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4001119453701.htm



MW07 anyone ?

The charging case looks even weirder, but hey, only 12$ !!!

https://fr.aliexpress.com/item/4001119453701.html


----------



## TooFrank

phiemon said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> what do you think has an overall "better" sound quality: the mtw2 or e8 v.3?


FWIW: I asked the same question a while ago, but as far I can tell nobody replied. However, I am the happy owner of the e8 v.3 (haven’t tried the mtw2). With the comply true grip, to my ears they sound wonderful - need a bit eq in the bass region though. The lack of NC is not a problem, as the seal is pretty good. I also have the xm3, but I tend to prefer the e8.....


----------



## eiraku (Jun 14, 2020)

TheLionelHutz said:


> Just ordered the Astrotec S90 Pro from Linsoul -- $85 out the door thanks to their mid-year sale. Very excited to try them out, will def post impressions when I get them.



Waiting for some impressions. These are probably one of the select few "Multi BA-only" TWSes out there and I'm pretty curious as of how AstroTec has them sorted out.

Also, mid year sale hmmmm.


----------



## McCol

Received the Sennheiser MTW2 this morning.  Been using them for the last few hours and so far I prefer them to the Jabra 75T.  Not much between them though, I prefer the more refined sound of the Sennheiser, bass is less prominent, a bit more natural sounding.  
The mids and highs are smooth and well detailed, if I had to describe it overall I'd say it's to the warmish/bassy side of neutral.  

I also prefer the fit of the Senns although again not much to choose between them.  Strangely I'm needing to use the large tips to get a good seal, normally I need mediums.  

The one thing I am finding with all the TWS buds I've tried is a lack of volume, must be years of being spoiled with DAC/Amps that give more power.  Listening at around 80% on both my Samsung S20 Ultra and the same on my Macbook. 

The white model is really nice as well, I was keen to get and didn't want to wait for stock of the black model.


----------



## TheLionelHutz (Jun 14, 2020)

eiraku said:


> Waiting for some impressions. These are probably one of the select few "Multi BA-only" TWSes out there and I'm pretty curious as of how AstroTec has them sorted out.
> 
> Also, mid year sale hmmmm.


Will do. Someone else bought them a couple months ago and promised impressions but I don't think that ever materialized, so I'm taking a flyer. Hopeful it will deliver good separation, tight bass, and no sibilance.


----------



## rymd

In case you were wondering about the durability of some of these IEMs: I recently performed the "car test" on my Bomaker SiFi 1 using a 2012 Honda Civic on a concrete driveway. I'm happy to report that my SiFi suffered only minor scratches and a slightly cracked shell. It still works and sounds fine, although unfortunately, is no longer IPX7 waterproof.


----------



## FlowLikeWater

rymd said:


> In case you were wondering about the durability of some of these IEMs: I recently performed the "car test" on my Bomaker SiFi 1 using a 2012 Honda Civic on a concrete driveway. I'm happy to report that my SiFi suffered only minor scratches and a slightly cracked shell. It still works and sounds fine, although unfortunately, is no longer IPX7 waterproof.



pretty cool....but y?


----------



## HeadphoneAddict (Jun 14, 2020)

rymd said:


> In case you were wondering about the durability of some of these IEMs: I recently performed the "car test" on my Bomaker SiFi 1 using a 2012 Honda Civic on a concrete driveway. I'm happy to report that my SiFi suffered only minor scratches and a slightly cracked shell. It still works and sounds fine, although unfortunately, is no longer IPX7 waterproof.





FlowLikeWater said:


> pretty cool....but y?



"Car Test" in quotes means, "I accidentally drove over one of the ear buds".

PS: How does auto corrupt change Drove to Drive on a Macbook? I understand on a tiny iPhone keyboard but if AI is using context to drive corrections, WHY would it create a sentence that makes no sense? 

EDIT - it did it again, and it changed "why" to "while" when 95% of the time I need autocorrect, but 100% of the time we don't need auto corrupt.


----------



## FlowLikeWater

HeadphoneAddict said:


> "Car Test" in quotes means, "I accidentally drove over one of the ear buds".
> 
> PS: How does auto corrupt change Drove to Drive on a Macbook? I understand on a tiny iPhone keyboard but if AI is using context to drive corrections, WHY would it create a sentence that makes no sense?
> 
> EDIT - it did it again, and it changed "why" to "while" when 95% of the time I need autocorrect, but 100% of the time we don't need auto corrupt.



LOL


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

HeadphoneAddict said:


> "Car Test" in quotes means, "I accidentally drove over one of the ear buds".
> 
> PS: How does auto corrupt change Drove to Drive on a Macbook? I understand on a tiny iPhone keyboard but if AI is using context to drive corrections, WHY would it create a sentence that makes no sense?
> 
> EDIT - it did it again, and it changed "why" to "while" when 95% of the time I need autocorrect, but 100% of the time we don't need auto corrupt.





FlowLikeWater said:


> LOL



Would have been funnier if autocorrect had changed "if AI is using context to _drive_ corrections..." to "if AI is using context to _drove_ corrections..."


----------



## RemoGaggi

rymd said:


> In case you were wondering about the durability of some of these IEMs: I recently performed the "car test" on my Bomaker SiFi 1 using a 2012 Honda Civic on a concrete driveway. I'm happy to report that my SiFi suffered only minor scratches and a slightly cracked shell. It still works and sounds fine, although unfortunately, is no longer IPX7 waterproof.


In Chinese, we would say, AY-YAH!


----------



## Caipirina

So, got the XM3 ... and I am still pretty much on the fence about them ... (damn you, chance of 'I can send back') ... they sound really nice, somehow I am not really aware of the ANC ... I did not have any 'wow' effect, like I had on the APP (but those I tried in a noisy Apple store, and here my surroundings are pretty quiet to begin with) ... I need to do some more testing on that.  
Not a big fan of the fit ... I get a seal, but they feel lie they would wiggle out any moment, need to try on a walk ... 
And just now while I am typing this, just to spite me, the right bud stopped playing music .. had to put back in that HUUUGE case and then music was back ... 

hmm .. already wondering what I could do with those freed 140€ if / when I send those back ... but there is still some inner voice telling me I would love them once I try on plane ...   

Any thoughts?


----------



## Ultrainferno

Today we review the Wireless 1MORE Dual Driver ANC PRO and Yagiz can only conclude it's a new recommended buy.

https://www.headfonia.com/1more-dual-driver-anc-pro-review/


----------



## RobinFood

Caipirina said:


> So, got the XM3 ... and I am still pretty much on the fence about them ... (damn you, chance of 'I can send back') ... they sound really nice, somehow I am not really aware of the ANC ... I did not have any 'wow' effect, like I had on the APP (but those I tried in a noisy Apple store, and here my surroundings are pretty quiet to begin with) ... I need to do some more testing on that.
> Not a big fan of the fit ... I get a seal, but they feel lie they would wiggle out any moment, need to try on a walk ...
> And just now while I am typing this, just to spite me, the right bud stopped playing music .. had to put back in that HUUUGE case and then music was back ...
> 
> ...



The XM3 pretty much demands that you tip roll. 
I've spent quite a bit on tips recently, using my older spinfit 350s (good but finicky), spinfits 360 (good and super comfortable and easy to set in, but less stable), the AE07 (not for me, like a less comfortable 360), AE08 (The most stable earbuds bar none, but I wish I had got them in L instead of M, as they do let in some ambient noise), and I just got the Radius Deep mounts, which I will try this week (so far they fit really well, like the 360s, but I still am not sure about the fit while walking. They don't have a pointy head like other tips, so the feel is super unique. Like having an earbud jammed deep in your ear. It seems to really open up soundstage...). I still want to try comply tips, mandarin tips and a large version of the AE08s, they really stick them in like glue.

I'm starting to spend more on tips than I used to spend on earphones :S 
It's somehow really addictive.
When you get a good fit on the XM3, the ANC goes from unimpressive to insane silence.


----------



## Caipirina (Jun 15, 2020)

RobinFood said:


> The XM3 pretty much demands that you tip roll.
> I've spent quite a bit on tips recently, using my older spinfit 350s (good but finicky), spinfits 360 (good and super comfortable and easy to set in, but less stable), the AE07 (not for me, like a less comfortable 360), AE08 (The most stable earbuds bar none, but I wish I had got them in L instead of M, as they do let in some ambient noise), and I just got the Radius Deep mounts, which I will try this week (so far they fit really well, like the 360s, but I still am not sure about the fit while walking. They don't have a pointy head like other tips, so the feel is super unique. Like having an earbud jammed deep in your ear. It seems to really open up soundstage...). I still want to try comply tips, mandarin tips and a large version of the AE08s, they really stick them in like glue.
> 
> I'm starting to spend more on tips than I used to spend on earphones :S
> ...


Good then that even while traveling I brought my good ole bag of tips 


will try some more now, also have some SpinFits on a few KZ IEMs I brought along ...

hmmm. Not those


----------



## Canabuc

miXwui said:


> Got the Buds+ yesterday and have been using them extensively for the last 24hrs; thanks to @jkjk123 for selling me his new pair! Very lengthy writeup below!
> 
> *Sound preferences are highly opinionated, so here's some context:*
> I love and prefer neutral sound, probably on the brighter side. (mostly listen to everything on my JBL LSR305 reference monitors, and the FLC 8S which...I lost in March on a flight. Loved/used them for some years *cries*. Initially used gold/red? filters for that oomph, but later switched it up to gray/gray? for neutrality iirc. I also owned/went through the GR06/GR07/GR07BE, which is a sound signature I adore (as most do).
> ...


I take it you don't use a Samsung phone?
Doing so had 2 audio benefits.

1. Scalable Codec which sounds much better than AAC at least on Android.

2. Dolby Atmos. When set to music it makes the music filter and the mids definitely come out more.


----------



## Canabuc

Robius said:


> Weirdest looking tws award goes to...
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4001119453701.htm


Master and dynamic knock off


----------



## myltz400

Caipirina said:


> So, got the XM3 ... and I am still pretty much on the fence about them ... (damn you, chance of 'I can send back') ... they sound really nice, somehow I am not really aware of the ANC ... I did not have any 'wow' effect, like I had on the APP (but those I tried in a noisy Apple store, and here my surroundings are pretty quiet to begin with) ... I need to do some more testing on that.
> Not a big fan of the fit ... I get a seal, but they feel lie they would wiggle out any moment, need to try on a walk ...
> And just now while I am typing this, just to spite me, the right bud stopped playing music .. had to put back in that HUUUGE case and then music was back ...
> 
> ...




The "wow" effect of the APP might be deceiving.  If you are use the stem to turn ANC off and on you are switching between pass through and ANC, which is very dramatic.  It almost seems like a trick to impress buyers when they try them on for a second.  When I compared the ANC between the Sony and APP using the phone apps they seemed pretty close.  The APPs cancelled a little more high frequency to my ear.

Full disclosure, I'm 52 and have hearing loss.


----------



## jant71

Robius said:


> Weirdest looking tws award goes to...
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4001119453701.htm



Those aren't weird. These are...


----------



## RemoGaggi

Thoughts on ANC TWS?  My wife is working from home now due to the Covid and I can't concentrate on my work because she has to have the radio on in the background playing 80's music.  I was considering getting the Boltune ANC TWS or the Dyplay ANC.  I know Edifier (and highly rated by Scarbir) are out there also, but much more costly.  Can anyone comment on if they think any of the TWS with ANC will help block out the 80's music I'm being tortured with each day?  Thank you.
Note:  I have the Fill T1x and they help isolate, but will any of the ANC TWS do better?


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Caipirina said:


> So, got the XM3 ... and I am still pretty much on the fence about them ... (damn you, chance of 'I can send back') ... they sound really nice, somehow I am not really aware of the ANC ... I did not have any 'wow' effect, like I had on the APP (but those I tried in a noisy Apple store, and here my surroundings are pretty quiet to begin with) ... I need to do some more testing on that.
> Not a big fan of the fit ... I get a seal, but they feel lie they would wiggle out any moment, need to try on a walk ...
> And just now while I am typing this, just to spite me, the right bud stopped playing music .. had to put back in that HUUUGE case and then music was back ...
> 
> ...



*Same here, sometimes it's one XM3 bud that stops and other times it's both. Often after I pause music or a YouTube video for too long* and my iPhone or MacBook Pro falls asleep. Then later when I come back, wake it up, and hit play I get no sound until I put the XM3 in the case and then back in my ears. This is why I am afraid to trust them to be there for me and stay connected when I need them, and I had this same issue with the WF-SP800N that I returned to get the XM3. 

Also, if I'm already playing sound on my MacBook Pro speakers and then I pop the XM3 into my ears, they will connect but I often only get sound in the left. *I have to pause the audio playing, before I put them into my ears and connect to BT*. If this happens, I remove them from my ears, pause, and either put them back in my ears to connect to my MacBook Pro or I put them in the case and then try them again.

They are actually connected but wont pass sound until they are disconnected or go back in the case, if removing them or disconnecting doesn't work. Occasionally I can wake the sound by moving the volume down and back up.

But I spend a lot of that time with them in my ears and wandering around the house, thinking that if a phone call comes in that I could answer the call on my MacBook or iPhone with the XM3 if I'm in BT range - but I worry "what if it rings and I press the ear piece and I can't answer the call?" I'd have to run back into the room to pick up my iPhone from the wireless charger or wake up the MacBook to answer.

*Fit was another issue*, but the XM3 fit me better than the WF-SP800N (with or without the 800N wings). I started using the largest silicone tips with XM3 to get them to stay in my ears better than WF-SP800N, but sometimes the seal wasn't the best because the large tips didn't let them go in deep enough. The largest included Sony foam tips were better if I mashed them in deeply, with a better seal and less itchy canals.

But I found the same "olive" shaped tips that I bought for the FIIL T1X work better with the XM3. *Silicone Replacement Ear Tips Earbuds Eargels for Mpow,Senso,Zeus,Otium,Hussar,Letscom  Bluetooth Earphones, 6 Paris (Blue and Gray) by luakesa*
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07P5FZW7J/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

*As for noise cancelling*, when I have a good seal (90% of the time now with new tips) the Transparency mode is more hissy than Apple AirPods Pro and works not quite but almost as good for talking to people while wearing them, while Passive noise blocking and ANC are as good or better. I'm not sure yet whether the music sound is better than AirPods Pro, I need to spend more time with them, but I lean towards the XM3 (clear bass between +3 to +5, no other EQ).


----------



## webvan

RemoGaggi said:


> Thoughts on ANC TWS?  My wife is working from home now due to the Covid and I can't concentrate on my work because she has to have the radio on in the background playing 80's music.  I was considering getting the Boltune ANC TWS or the Dyplay ANC.  I know Edifier (and highly rated by Scarbir) are out there also, but much more costly.  Can anyone comment on if they think any of the TWS with ANC will help block out the 80's music I'm being tortured with each day?  Thank you.
> Note:  I have the Fill T1x and they help isolate, but will any of the ANC TWS do better?



It would help yes, however for marathon listening sessions and/or pure isolation on my laptop I prefer to wear my Bose QC25, they're just more comfortable than isolating IEMs + ANC like the Amazon Echobuds or even the MTW2 that are a little more comfortable. The APP are the most comfortable ANC TWS out there but they don't have much passive isolation (unlike the Echobuds) so will not work for general isolation, only for recurring sounds, like the hum of an engine.


----------



## Audiosolace

RemoGaggi said:


> Thoughts on ANC TWS?  My wife is working from home now due to the Covid and I can't concentrate on my work because she has to have the radio on in the background playing 80's music.  I was considering getting the Boltune ANC TWS or the Dyplay ANC.  I know Edifier (and highly rated by Scarbir) are out there also, but much more costly.  Can anyone comment on if they think any of the TWS with ANC will help block out the 80's music I'm being tortured with each day?  Thank you.
> Note:  I have the Fill T1x and they help isolate, but will any of the ANC TWS do better?



The technology is improving but not quite there yet. Will be interesting to see the evolution of this.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

RemoGaggi said:


> Thoughts on ANC TWS?  My wife is working from home now due to the Covid and I can't concentrate on my work because she has to have the radio on in the background playing 80's music.  I was considering getting the Boltune ANC TWS or the Dyplay ANC.  I know Edifier (and highly rated by Scarbir) are out there also, but much more costly.  Can anyone comment on if they think any of the TWS with ANC will help block out the 80's music I'm being tortured with each day?  Thank you.
> Note:  I have the Fill T1x and they help isolate, but will any of the ANC TWS do better?



The XM3 ANC helps a little bit with music and voices, but you really to start out with IEM that have good passive isolation on top of that first. With the ear gel tips mentioned in my last post above, my XM3 isolate a lot and the ANC makes hearing people talk even more difficult than passive only. 

I just tried watching a YouTube video on the MacBook thru the speakers, but using the XM3 to block the speaker sound passively and with ANC - with ambient sound mode turned on I could hear the video like normal, and with ambient sound off it was noticeably more difficult, but the ANC on it got even harder to hear what was being said. I thought that ANC should only help with constant frequency or droning sounds (engines, fans, power tools, running water, etc) but it did make a difference here.

HOWEVER, with my Westone ES5 Custom IEM I keep them in my shooting bag and use them for protection at the shooting range, with noticeably more isolation - I would not feel comfortable wearing any universal fit IEM to go shooting. So, you might have to consider a custom molded IEM, and use a CEntrance BlueDAC or Fiio BTR-5 to go partially wireless.


----------



## chinmie

RemoGaggi said:


> Thoughts on ANC TWS?  My wife is working from home now due to the Covid and I can't concentrate on my work because she has to have the radio on in the background playing 80's music.  I was considering getting the Boltune ANC TWS or the Dyplay ANC.  I know Edifier (and highly rated by Scarbir) are out there also, but much more costly.  Can anyone comment on if they think any of the TWS with ANC will help block out the 80's music I'm being tortured with each day?  Thank you.
> Note:  I have the Fill T1x and they help isolate, but will any of the ANC TWS do better?



I currently have the Dyplay BQC35, Airsun X8, and two Sony WF XM3. I also have the WH XM3 headphone. 
They all works well to block low freq rumble, but for reducing higher noise and chatter, background music, etc, it will depend more on the passive isolation. If you also would play music on them to help mask the background noise, the Vshaped sound of BQC35 would let people voice to pass more, while the X8's more neutral tuning would block mids and highs outside noise better. For low freq rumble, the BQC35 would work better than the X8.
The Sony WF XM3 is overall better in ANC performance and SQ across the board compared to the other two, but also much pricier..

But, the WH XM3 headphone is just a better performer for ANC compared to all previous TWSs. But i prefer the WF XM3 's sound the best, and the mic sound of the three TWSs are better than the WH XM3. 

So in daily situations when my wife and son both having video conference for their online work and school classes, the order i rate the ANC to block voice chatter is 
BQC35 < X8 < WF XM3 < WH XM3 

Maybe another solution to your problem is asking your wife to also use earphones? Might or may not work for you, because my wife and son don't like it and sure prefer to use the speakers for conference, so i'm stuck with using ANC instead


----------



## georgelai57

Damn. Another one to consider 
https://www.scarbir.com/tws/edifier-x3-review


----------



## hifi80sman

RemoGaggi said:


> help block out the 80's music I'm being tortured with each day


I don’t think we can be friends.


----------



## jlcsoft

georgelai57 said:


> Damn. Another one to consider
> https://www.scarbir.com/tws/edifier-x3-review


I am waiting for my x3, I bought it at 18€.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

hifi80sman said:


> I don’t think we can be friends.



Nice. Going back to listen to more Duran Duran and Flock of Seagulls now...


----------



## BigZ12

georgelai57 said:


> Damn. Another one to consider
> https://www.scarbir.com/tws/edifier-x3-review


AAC? AptX?


----------



## BobJS

RemoGaggi said:


> Thoughts on ANC TWS?  My wife is working from home now due to the Covid and I can't concentrate on my work because she has to have the radio on in the background playing 80's music.  I was considering getting the Boltune ANC TWS or the Dyplay ANC.  I know Edifier (and highly rated by Scarbir) are out there also, but much more costly.  Can anyone comment on if they think any of the TWS with ANC will help block out the 80's music I'm being tortured with each day?  Thank you.
> Note:  I have the Fill T1x and they help isolate, but will any of the ANC TWS do better?



This one's easy.  Tell your wife to turn it off, you can't concentrate on your work.  Or tell her to wear headphones/earbuds.


----------



## RemoGaggi

georgelai57 said:


> Damn. Another one to consider
> https://www.scarbir.com/tws/edifier-x3-review



$25 and better than my GT1 Plus?  Good stuff.  (Remember to donate to Scarbir if you can, I just did).


----------



## go0gle

Ok I am bored again lol any speculation release dates for next gen Bluetooth/chipset stuff ?


----------



## Caipirina

go0gle said:


> Ok I am bored again lol any speculation release dates for next gen Bluetooth/chipset stuff ?


I am waiting for IMPLANTS!


----------



## Caipirina

Ordered these cheap for kiddo from the river people ... anyone know these?


----------



## webvan

More "raindrop" TWEs that won't stay put in my ears 

Still happy with  the Bomaker SiFi II that have now become my  goto "non ANC TWS" ! There's really no denying that not having to fidget with the fit of a TWE is a huge plus.


----------



## jant71 (Jun 16, 2020)

RemoGaggi said:


> $25 and better than my GT1 Plus?  Good stuff.  (Remember to donate to Scarbir if you can, I just did).



Posted this here already but they are $19.49 from the Edifier Store while the sale is till active.

I might have gotten one but I said if the new JVC was $130 instead of $150 I would get that and It was $130 so that is coming here by Friday.


----------



## Luke Skywalker

bedlamite said:


> Really? How are they bad? I initially didn't think they were great either because vocals sounded a bit too metallic, but I finally applied some EQ (lowered the 400 and 1k Hz regions) and these sound much better now.
> 
> Fit issues will also degrade sound quality, if these don't fit your ears well then no amount of sound tweaking will make the WFs good. The Spinfit CP360s have worked well for me, but then, everybody has differently sized ears...just gotta find tips that'll fit yours.


That's awesome that you've had a good experience with them.  For me, the sound is muffled and doesn't sound nearly as good as the N6P's no matter how I mess with the EQ or what tips I use.  The ANC and call quality is great, but I never use them for music.  Glad I got them for $119 refurb or I'd be kind of p*ssed


----------



## JPFrost

Today I received the Soundpeats Truengine SE and the Votomy V22.

Unfortunately neither earphone will pair or connect to my phone (nokia 8). While my Bomaker SIFI II have no problem nor my Sony headphones. What am I doing wrong here?


----------



## myltz400

Anyone able to get the Mpow x3?  They were available for about a day on Amazon.


----------



## bduckyy

https://www.amazon.com/HIFI-Wireles...ld=1&keywords=fiil+t1xs&qid=1592346383&sr=8-5
Finally on amazon but at $100 and 2 month delivery time, I think I might just grab the t1x instead of the t1xs. The new features are cool and but I don't think it's worth double the price. I think $60 would be a sweet point for these and the t1x should drop to $40.


----------



## RemoGaggi

myltz400 said:


> Anyone able to get the Mpow x3?  They were available for about a day on Amazon.


Have you considered the Boltune ANC?  Is there a head to head comparison out there somewhere?  I think one of the reviews on Amazon said the Boltune was a lot better, but that's just one anonymous guy on Amazon.


----------



## FYLegend

UGREEN HiTune has been revealed, QCC3020 + USB Type-C. Unfortunately because they opted for a next/previous track function on both sides, so there's no volume controls.

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4001085665647.html


----------



## chinmie

I'm eyeing on the Tronsmart Onyx Free, it's less battery life per-single charge than the Ugreen, but has physical buttons, ipx7, and those (might be gimmicky) UV lights


----------



## rsusid

webreaper said:


> Hi all,
> 
> Haven't posted much as I've been pretty happy with the Senn IE80s over the last couple of years. But I'm getting a bit fed up with having to replace the cable every 8-12 months. The IE80s are fantastic sound-wise, and I have custom-moulded sleeves which give a wonderful fit and great sound isolation. I was originally looking for a wireless lanyard like the Westone BT cable 78548, but unfortunately the IE80s use a custom connector, and I can't find an equivalent wireless converter that'll fit the Senns (there's some $5 ones on Alibaba, but I've no confidence that they'll have decent SQ, battery life or reliability).
> 
> ...


Definitely ready to go full wireless


----------



## hifi80sman (Jun 17, 2020)

Jabra 75t manufacturer refurbished directly from Jabra, at Target for $99.  Tempting...
https://www.target.com/p/jabra-elit...earbuds-manufacturer-refurbished/-/A-79690954


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

hifi80sman said:


> Jabra 75t manufacturer refurbished directly from Jabra, at Target for $99.  Tempting...
> https://www.target.com/p/jabra-elit...earbuds-manufacturer-refurbished/-/A-79690954


That's what I paid for my refurbished 75t at Newegg.com - it came in a plastic bag with no box, directly from Jabra, but works fine.


----------



## TheLionelHutz

chinmie said:


> I'm eyeing on the Tronsmart Onyx Free, it's less battery life per-single charge than the Ugreen, but has physical buttons, ipx7, and those (might be gimmicky) UV lights


Probably irrelevant, but I've decided to never go back to physical buttons. I discovered last weekend entirely by accident that I can play/pause/answer calls on my ADV Model X+ just by putting my ear to my shoulder. Absolute frickin lifesaver (okay, maybe an exaggeration) when my hands are occupied and/or dirty (like when grilling yesterday and I had a kid screaming at me and I needed to pause the music).

Now I'm curious if I could do the same and activate pass-through on the GBuds+ the same way. That would be the holy grail of never-having-to-take-my-earbuds-out.


----------



## Bartig

myltz400 said:


> Anyone able to get the Mpow x3?  They were available for about a day on Amazon.


I guess there's a production problem with these. I've ordered mine a month ago, and it was only sent out this weekend. Having some doubt whether it will be better than the Boltune BH023 though.

Also: time to update my signature. Been a while since I logged in here.


----------



## chinmie

TheLionelHutz said:


> Probably irrelevant, but I've decided to never go back to physical buttons. I discovered last weekend entirely by accident that I can play/pause/answer calls on my ADV Model X+ just by putting my ear to my shoulder. Absolute frickin lifesaver (okay, maybe an exaggeration) when my hands are occupied and/or dirty (like when grilling yesterday and I had a kid screaming at me and I needed to pause the music).
> 
> Now I'm curious if I could do the same and activate pass-through on the GBuds+ the same way. That would be the holy grail of never-having-to-take-my-earbuds-out.



As long as you're using your skin, or most shirt-thickness cloth, you can definitely use touch controls. I also use it like this often. As convenient as that goes, i more often press the touch sensor accidentally, especially if i use it while sleeping and resting my head on my arm, or even if my earlobe folds itself on top of the sensors.Tactile buttons are better for my personal scenarios. I can still use my shoulders to press physical buttons, just require a bit more practice


----------



## Luke Skywalker

rsusid said:


> Definitely ready to go full wireless


I'd put the Nuarl N6 Pro's on there.  I like them better than my Jabra 65's, the XM3's, and they even compare to my JH Lola's for some genres.  No ANC though


----------



## TheLionelHutz (Jun 17, 2020)

chinmie said:


> As long as you're using your skin, or most shirt-thickness cloth, you can definitely use touch controls. I also use it like this often. As convenient as that goes, i more often press the touch sensor accidentally, especially if i use it while sleeping and resting my head on my arm, or even if my earlobe folds itself on top of the sensors.Tactile buttons are better for my personal scenarios. I can still use my shoulders to press physical buttons, just require a bit more practice


Thanks -- are you specifically referring to the Buds+ here?

The physical buttons available to me would definitely fail this test, lol.  Nuarl N6 - little buttons on the top edge. Phaiser Fusion One: would cram it into my ear canal. Soundcore Life P2: would knock it out of my ear.


----------



## assassin10000 (Jun 17, 2020)

TheLionelHutz said:


> Thanks -- are you specifically referring to the Buds+ here?
> 
> The physical buttons available to me would definitely fail this test, lol.  Nuarl N6 - little buttons on the top edge. Phaiser Fusion One: would cram it into my ear canal. Soundcore Life P2: would knock it out of my ear.



Just tried my Buds+, the touch sensors worked with my t-shirt.


Also slightly tweaked my EQ after the updates 2x ago.


----------



## chinmie

TheLionelHutz said:


> Thanks -- are you specifically referring to the Buds+ here?
> 
> The physical buttons available to me would definitely fail this test, lol.  Nuarl N6 - little buttons on the top edge. Phaiser Fusion One: would cram it into my ear canal. Soundcore Life P2: would knock it out of my ear.



I don't have the Buds+ , but i have the previous version Buds, and it can work too. Some tws are more sensitive . For instance my QCY T5 can register touch through clothes better, while the Buds is a bit less sensitive


----------



## RemoGaggi

myltz400 said:


> Anyone able to get the Mpow x3?  They were available for about a day on Amazon.



Last night after a couple of beers, I found the Edifier TWS NB on sale at the Edifier store (USA) for $69.  I couldn't resist so I ordered.  It will be my first pair of ANC TWS.  They are still on sale now if you're interested.


----------



## hifi80sman

Bartig said:


> I guess there's a production problem with these. I've ordered mine a month ago, and it was only sent out this weekend. Having some doubt whether it will be better than the Boltune BH023 though.
> 
> Also: time to update my signature. Been a while since I logged in here.


No ambient mode on either one, eh?  After using ambient mode on the APP, XM3, and SP800N, I found I use it more than I thought.


----------



## howdy

RemoGaggi said:


> Last night after a couple of beers, I found the Edifier TWS NB on sale at the Edifier store (USA) for $69.  I couldn't resist so I ordered.  It will be my first pair of ANC TWS.  They are still on sale now if you're interested.


That's how I usually end up being most of my TWS is after a few Vodka Cranberry. My wife said I can't use that excuse anymore.


----------



## assassin10000

howdy said:


> That's how I usually end up being most of my TWS is after a few Vodka Cranberry. My wife said I can't use that excuse anymore.



Time for a new drink.


----------



## Caipirina

myltz400 said:


> Anyone able to get the Mpow x3?  They were available for about a day on Amazon.


Mine are on their way from China ...


----------



## Caipirina

Bartig said:


> I guess there's a production problem with these. I've ordered mine a month ago, and it was only sent out this weekend. Having some doubt whether it will be better than the Boltune BH023 though.
> 
> Also: time to update my signature. Been a while since I logged in here.


Can’t seem to find those on german amazon ... 
and yes, you have been missed.


----------



## Bartig

Have many of you tried the Bomaker Sifi II?

I've done something in my review I was a bit ashamed to do, but am happy I just did it. I decided to lower the score for it. I think it's great for modern electronic genres like dance and pop - where you can really enjoy the bass and lower-mid emphasis on the Sifi II, but it just misses that instrumental spark of the original Sifi. Music is less airy, the soundstage isn't as spectacular and nor is instrument placement...


----------



## Bartig

RemoGaggi said:


> Last night after a couple of beers, I found the Edifier TWS NB on sale at the Edifier store (USA) for $69.  I couldn't resist so I ordered.  It will be my first pair of ANC TWS.  They are still on sale now if you're interested.



Not the most detailed sound, but boy, the ANC is great on those. Much better than Xiaomi's, Huawei/ Honor's or even Boltune's efforts.


----------



## Burakk

Hey guys, it’s more than 1500 pages and I guess we need a ranking list or something else. It’s not easy for the people who works many hours,   to follow all developments in this field. What is the very best ones that money can buy for now? I need TOTL of tws.


----------



## assassin10000 (Jun 17, 2020)

Burakk said:


> Hey guys, it’s more than 1500 pages and I guess we need a ranking list or something else. It’s not easy for the people who works many hours,   to follow all developments in this field. What is the very best ones that money can buy for now? I need TOTL of tws.



Afaik for pure sound quality the current TOTL leaders are:

Sennheiser MTW2
Nuarl N6 pro
M&D MW07 plus (although not talked about as much the last couple hundred pages)

Maybe even in that order lol. I haven't heard them personally, so ymmv.


----------



## voicemaster

TheLionelHutz said:


> Probably irrelevant, but I've decided to never go back to physical buttons. I discovered last weekend entirely by accident that I can play/pause/answer calls on my ADV Model X+ just by putting my ear to my shoulder. Absolute frickin lifesaver (okay, maybe an exaggeration) when my hands are occupied and/or dirty (like when grilling yesterday and I had a kid screaming at me and I needed to pause the music).
> 
> Now I'm curious if I could do the same and activate pass-through on the GBuds+ the same way. That would be the holy grail of never-having-to-take-my-earbuds-out.


Just tried it and it worked lol.


----------



## jant71 (Jun 18, 2020)

Got these in today:


Both the case and buds themselves are smaller than it seems in the stock pics. Case is 2 5/8" x 1 7/8 x 1" at the widest points. Also sturdy but not heavy. Lid and buds magnetically attach. Fins are small and softer than I thought. They fit more shallow and the tip, fin, and bottom bulbous part is all that contacts my ear. The design is nice so that you can handle them without activating the touch controls by accident. There is space to hold, adjust fit, put them in/out and no unintended presses at all.

Early connection report: Instant first pairing in aptX with my Sony A26. Solid and stable so far but need to test outside more.

We have English voice prompts for most things. Talk through doesn't say anything which makes sense if you are trying to hear someone but things like the bass boost will say "Bass" or "Off".

Talk through is one press like in the video...

You press once and the volume is lowered and mics open. Need to try with other devices but seems like you don't get much volume with the talk through. You can turn it back up but doesn't go too much. Most likely to not blow your ears out if you forgot you turned the volume up.

Need to let them burn in some but the sound seems very good. Some warmth and the bass boost is noticeable but controlled. Nice if the drivers tighten up a bit on the bass end. They also take EQ from the Sony very well. Also want to tip roll and see what happens with normal tips instead of the shortened stock ones. Again, since the core is normal and the outside is shortened they should be fine as far as fitting normal length tips into the case. I did a quick test with M Earfits and they fit into the case fine. Easier than expected fit, very good comfort, good connection and sound so far.


Update a couple hours in... I already tested with one other device and near instant detection. A little use and the fit is just super easy. Just put them up to my ears and they stay there with the out of the box tips and fins. Barely takes a second to fit and no twisting or real adjusting needed once you get accustomed. I tested a solid connection to 60+ feet and behind a wooden stockade fence till I got short drop when I spun around and was sideways my body blocking the signal. Sound has actually changed as that bass bloat out of the box dropped and is more tight and fun and more developed and dynamic. Happy and surprised to hear it. Nice dynamic sound now and clearer down low to match the nice mids and treble. More cohesive than before since the bass is now as sharp, tight and clear as the rest of the spectrum. Bass is more realistic and detailed and seems lesser/more controlled which makes them really balanced. So, they are actually quite balanced and not as warm as they first were and you can use the bass boost to get more thump but they are more of an all-rounder with the boost off. Sony should have done that with the XB700 to make them more versatile esp. since they don't work with their app.


----------



## TheLionelHutz

How long does Linsoul usually take to ship something?


----------



## jant71 (Jun 17, 2020)

Back to the drawing board? Huge case, 3 hours?, difficult fit, and no auto off. Always have to be wary of first attempt Chi-Fi TWS'.


----------



## Ynot1

*T2 Pro Sports Wireless Earbuds*
Lightweight and secure fit design, perfect partner for his next workout.

_______________________

*$15.99* $59.99
_______________________

Promo code: *FORDAD*


jwong said:


> I'm very curious about the B530. I recently got the Tranya T2 Pro because it was cheap ($32 after coupon on Amazon) and I'm really happy with it other than the push-button control. Despite its categorization of "much emphasis on deep bass" I don't find the bass overpowering.
> 
> I also got the often recommended cheap QCY T5 but didn't find the sound nearly as pleasant and the touch controls seemed to only work sporadically.
> 
> Just today I received the Votomy V22. The touch controls on these work perfectly. They sound good, perhaps a little more detailed than the T2 Pro but with a very crispy treble that borders on painful. In the end I like the T2 Pro better, but wish it had the V22's touch controls.


----------



## hifi80sman

Has anyone tried to see if they can connect via AAC on the MW07 Go or Plus?  I had the MH40 Wireless, which do not advertise AAC, but I was able to connect with AAC.


----------



## RemoGaggi

Just got my Bomaker SiFi 2.... and they might not work for me.  These don't seem to fit in my ear well at all.  I always need the largest tip and even with the largest tip, I can't get them tight enough to have any decent bass.  I have some large Auvio tips I use on my Fiil T1x and switched and it helped a lot, but the case for the SiFi 2 is too shallow for the Auvio ear tips.  Not sure what do here.  Any suggestions?


----------



## assassin10000 (Jun 17, 2020)

RemoGaggi said:


> Just got my Bomaker SiFi 2.... and they might not work for me.  These don't seem to fit in my ear well at all.  I always need the largest tip and even with the largest tip, I can't get them tight enough to have any decent bass.  I have some large Auvio tips I use on my Fiil T1x and switched and it helped a lot, but the case for the SiFi 2 is too shallow for the Auvio ear tips.  Not sure what do here.  Any suggestions?



CP360, Ikko i-planet (13.5mm) or Misodiko TWS-PRO (13.0mm) tips?
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/best-iem-tips.626895/post-15436914

What diameter usually fits you best?

I don't know about the large size but my TWS-PRO tips in 'small' ran 1mm larger than the listed 11mm size to 12mm. Which I consider a M size tip. If it was 11mm, thats more like a MS tip.


----------



## RemoGaggi

assassin10000 said:


> CP360, Ikko i-planet (13.5mm) or Misodiko TWS-PRO (13.0mm) tips?
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/best-iem-tips.626895/post-15436914
> 
> What diameter usually fits you best?
> ...


I tried the tips from a couple of KZ's I have and they work better as they are slightly deeper, but the problem is the stupid Bomaker case.  If anything is even the slightest bit deeper or wider than the stock large ear tip, the buds don't connect to the case and you can't close the lid.,  So, beware with the SiFi 2, you will be limited to your choice of ear tips.  So, I'm stuck with the large stock tips here.  They sound pretty good when I'm pressing on them a little bit and when I have the pressed in my ear as much as I can, they do sound pretty good - great separation and imaging.  I will try again tomorrow, but the other annoying thing about these is that they are damn near impossible to get out of the case.  I literally have to have a fist fight with the case to get them out.


----------



## assassin10000

RemoGaggi said:


> I tried the tips from a couple of KZ's I have and they work better as they are slightly deeper, but the problem is the stupid Bomaker case.  If anything is even the slightest bit deeper or wider than the stock large ear tip, the buds don't connect to the case and you can't close the lid.,  So, beware with the SiFi 2, you will be limited to your choice of ear tips.  So, I'm stuck with the large stock tips here.  They sound pretty good when I'm pressing on them a little bit and when I have the pressed in my ear as much as I can, they do sound pretty good - great separation and imaging.  I will try again tomorrow, but the other annoying thing about these is that they are damn near impossible to get out of the case.  I literally have to have a fist fight with the case to get them out.



Yeah, depth is an issue on many TWS charging cases. 

The tips I recommended above are all shorter designs meant for shallow TWS cases.


----------



## RemoGaggi

assassin10000 said:


> Yeah, depth is an issue on many TWS charging cases.
> 
> The tips I recommended above are all shorter designs meant for shallow TWS cases.


Thanks.  I will take a closer look.  But, I'm pretty frustrated right now.  I think if I can get them to fit well, they will be pretty good.  I do have doubts they will be better than the T1x though.


----------



## hmscott (Jun 23, 2020)

dw13 said:


> Yesterday the KZ S2'2 arrived and are remarkably good considering their price of $35.  Really, really good.  Better sounding than Lypertek Tevi IMO.


That's great news!  Thanks for posting your initial reaction; how are they doing now after breaking in over the last 10 days?

Sorry I didn't see your reply sooner, I'm very happy to see you like them. 

I selected a pair of the KZ S2's as a perk, I also got the Comply tips perk. I was hoping KZ would get this iteration of a TWS correct...

My contribution #'s are in the low 59xx - , and I received a tracking number June 4th, but the package(s) haven't moved since:

DHL - June 04, 2020 7:53pm - Shipment information received

*Update:* Got notice from DHL for delivery this coming Friday, sure seems to have taken a lot steps to get this far:


Spoiler: Details...



Estimated Delivery Date
*Friday, Jun 26*
Last Updated: *June 21 04:14PM UTC*

June 21, 2020 3:09am

*Departed Facility in HONG KONG-HKG*
Hong Kong-Hkg,
2:56am

*Processed at HONG KONG-HKG*
Hong Kong-Hkg,
June 20, 2020
4:17pm

*Processed at HONG KONG-HKG*
Hong Kong-Hkg,
2:37pm

*Customs status updated*
Los Angeles Gateway, USA
2:09pm

*Processed at HONG KONG-HKG*
Hong Kong-Hkg,
2:09pm

*Clearance processing complete at HONG KONG-HKG*
Hong Kong-Hkg,
2:08pm

*Arrived at Sort Facility HONG KONG-HKG*
Hong Kong-Hkg,
1:38pm

*Arrived at Sort Facility HONG KONG-HKG*
Hong Kong-Hkg,
12:19pm

*Customs status updated*
Hong Kong-Hkg,
11:30am

*Departed Facility in SHENZHEN-CHN*
Shenzhen-Chn,
11:12am

*Processed at SHENZHEN-CHN*
Shenzhen-Chn,
9:31am

*Arrived at Sort Facility SHENZHEN-CHN*
Shenzhen-Chn,
4:50am

*Departed Facility in SHENZHEN-CHN*
Shenzhen-Chn,
2:31am

*Processed at SHENZHEN-CHN*
Shenzhen-Chn,
1:54am

*Processed at SHENZHEN-CHN*
Shenzhen-Chn,
12:09am

*Processed at SHENZHEN-CHN*
Shenzhen-Chn,
June 19, 2020
11:59pm

*Processed at SHENZHEN-CHN*
Shenzhen-Chn,
7:12pm

*Shipment information received*


7:12pm

*Shipment picked up*
Shenzhen-Chn,
June 04, 2020
7:53pm

*Shipment information received*


----------



## TK33

TheLionelHutz said:


> How long does Linsoul usually take to ship something?



I ordered a cable on 6/16 from them and just got a shipment notification half an hour ago.


----------



## chinmie

anyone have either the Soundpeats true air or the Tronsmart Onyx ace, or even better : have compared them both? Bartig has already tested them on his website, but i just curious for other opinions as well.


----------



## RemoGaggi

TheLionelHutz said:


> How long does Linsoul usually take to ship something?


I'm in California.  I ordered a pair of KZ Z1 from Linsoul on 5/7/20.  It was shipped out a week later and arrived in in the USA (New York) on 5/15/20.  To date, according to the tracking from SF Express (the crappy delivery service they use for "free shipping), it is still in New York as of today - over a month later.  A little over a week ago, I requested a refund as it's pretty obvious it's never going to arrive.  Linsoul's customer service on this issue was fair and they refunded me.  If you are going to buy something from Linsoul and having it shipped to the USA, pay the extra $12 for express shipping - I think you'll have a better chance of it arriving.


----------



## RemoGaggi (Jun 18, 2020)

assassin10000 said:


> Yeah, depth is an issue on many TWS charging cases.
> 
> The tips I recommended above are all shorter designs meant for shallow TWS cases.


The problem with the Bomaker SiFi case is not only depth, but anything even slightly wider than then stock large eartip will not fit either.  The cutout in the case is exactly the size of the stock large eartip.  I'm 99% sure I'm sending these back to Amazon as in my situation, shallow wider tips won't work either.  Maybe my ears are just deformed and need a bit more curvature also like how the KZ and Fiil's are shaped.  Heck, even my cheapo Haylou GT1 Plus feel comfortable like a soft warm pillow compared to the SiFi 2.


----------



## malfario

RemoGaggi said:


> The problem with the Bomaker SiFi case is not only depth, but anything even slightly wider than then stock large eartip will not fit either.  The cutout in the case is exactly the size of the stock large eartip.  I'm 99% sure I'm sending these back to Amazon as in my situation, shallow wider tips won't work either.  Maybe my ears are just deformed and need a bit more curvature also like how the KZ and Fiil's are shaped.  Heck, even my cheapo Haylou GT1 Plus feel comfortable like a soft warm pillow compared to the SiFi 2.



I'd suggest to try spiral dots M if you have some at hand.
They are a bit taller and (to my eyes) a little bit wider than the stock (non shallow) tips. Maybe those few extra mm are enough to get a proper sealing.
They fit fine in the case, not as perfect as with stock tips, but you can even keep the lid closed.


----------



## webvan

RemoGaggi said:


> Just got my Bomaker SiFi 2.... and they might not work for me.  These don't seem to fit in my ear well at all.  I always need the largest tip and even with the largest tip, I can't get them tight enough to have any decent bass.  I have some large Auvio tips I use on my Fiil T1x and switched and it helped a lot, but the case for the SiFi 2 is too shallow for the Auvio ear tips.  Not sure what do here.  Any suggestions?


Strange, these are probably the best fitting TWEs I've ever had (with the MTW2 and EchoBuds), have you tried the stock shallow L tips ? They create a great seal and don't move a bit once in place.


----------



## Bartig

jant71 said:


> Back to the drawing board? Huge case, 3 hours?, difficult fit, and no auto off. Always have to be wary of first attempt Chi-Fi TWS'.



Oof, if Gamesky isn't raving, something isn't good. That's a terrible battery life.


----------



## FYLegend

The irritating part about the Buds+ touch controls is that while the edge touch is convenient, it is also easily triggered by so much as lying on a pillow. You also can't wear an ANC over-ear headphone over them because they will turn off as if they have been put into the case. I also find the eartip material rather itch-inducing, which has not been a big problem for other eartips I've used.

Is it just me or does the case seem to drain more if you charge it with a cable rather than wireless charging overnight?

I see ORIT TWS is going on lightning sale soon, any recommendations? It seems to be a VOTOMY V22 rebrand

https://www.amazon.ca/dp/B085Q8D9DY...m=A3DWYIK6Y9EEQB&pf_rd_r=K8FJ6SZGWRCX3M1N3KMB




jant71 said:


> Back to the drawing board? Huge case, 3 hours?, difficult fit, and no auto off. Always have to be wary of first attempt Chi-Fi TWS'.





Bartig said:


> Oof, if Gamesky isn't raving, something isn't good. That's a terrible battery life.


I was clapping all along when he said USB Type-C and didn't say "these control everything but the volume" , until I heard the sound section...


----------



## Caipirina

Indecisiveness ...  I am now more leaning towards keeping the XM3 ... they do sound really nice ... and I can still try all kinds of tips. 

Other reason is that I probably get some money back from AE .. finally they let me file disputes for stuff that's long overdue (before the dispute system would say 'it is still on the way, please wait some more'), one minor dispute already 'won', so, no QCY T5 for me  .. the bigger ticket items are still being decided by AE's bots ... one of them is the ~100$ Edifier TWS NB (yep, no 69$ offer for me) and if that comes through I might order here from amazon for 99€ ...


----------



## TheLionelHutz

RemoGaggi said:


> I'm in California.  I ordered a pair of KZ Z1 from Linsoul on 5/7/20.  It was shipped out a week later and arrived in in the USA (New York) on 5/15/20.  To date, according to the tracking from SF Express (the crappy delivery service they use for "free shipping), it is still in New York as of today - over a month later.  A little over a week ago, I requested a refund as it's pretty obvious it's never going to arrive.  Linsoul's customer service on this issue was fair and they refunded me.  If you are going to buy something from Linsoul and having it shipped to the USA, pay the extra $12 for express shipping - I think you'll have a better chance of it arriving.





TK33 said:


> I ordered a cable on 6/16 from them and just got a shipment notification half an hour ago.



Thanks, both. Guess I'll stay patient. Ordered on 6/13 and still hasn't shipped out.


----------



## chinmie

Caipirina said:


> Indecisiveness ...  I am now more leaning towards keeping the XM3 ... they do sound really nice ... and I can still try all kinds of tips.
> 
> Other reason is that I probably get some money back from AE .. finally they let me file disputes for stuff that's long overdue (before the dispute system would say 'it is still on the way, please wait some more'), one minor dispute already 'won', so, no QCY T5 for me  .. the bigger ticket items are still being decided by AE's bots ... one of them is the ~100$ Edifier TWS NB (yep, no 69$ offer for me) and if that comes through I might order here from amazon for 99€ ...



it grows on you, isn't?   
like i said, i also a bit underwhelmed the first time i heard the XM3's sound, but after really listening to it, it easily jumps to the upper tier of my most favorite earphones list. the bass kick is really smooth yet fast, and the overall spacial cues (reverb, delays, etc) are really well presented

i found an authorized seller of the Tronsmart in my local online shop, and they already have the Onyx Free. now I'm reeeeally tempted to buy both the Onyx Free and the Ace


----------



## RemoGaggi

malfario said:


> I'd suggest to try spiral dots M if you have some at hand.
> They are a bit taller and (to my eyes) a little bit wider than the stock (non shallow) tips. Maybe those few extra mm are enough to get a proper sealing.
> They fit fine in the case, not as perfect as with stock tips, but you can even keep the lid closed.


Thanks for the suggestion, but I don't have any Sprial Dots.  They're $18 on Amazon and unfortunately, I can't justify spending another $18 to take a chance to make these SiFi 2 work for me.  The SiFi 2 came with both standard and shallow tips in all the sizes, but none of them work for me.  When I have listened to them while gently pressing them in deeper, they do sound very good.  The last straw for me was just a few minutes ago when I had to fight with them to get them out of the case.  They are shaped so that there is absolutely nothing to grab onto or get leverage to pop them out - the widest point of the earbud is flush with the inset of the case and they get thinner towards the touch control, which gives you nothing to grab onto.  It's like they are shaped to stay in the case.  I wish they would work, but they are going back.


----------



## Bobbetybob

RemoGaggi said:


> Thanks for the suggestion, but I don't have any Sprial Dots.  They're $18 on Amazon and unfortunately, I can't justify spending another $18 to take a chance to make these SiFi 2 work for me.  The SiFi 2 came with both standard and shallow tips in all the sizes, but none of them work for me.  When I have listened to them while gently pressing them in deeper, they do sound very good.  The last straw for me was just a few minutes ago when I had to fight with them to get them out of the case.  They are shaped so that there is absolutely nothing to grab onto or get leverage to pop them out - the widest point of the earbud is flush with the inset of the case and they get thinner towards the touch control, which gives you nothing to grab onto.  It's like they are shaped to stay in the case.  I wish they would work, but they are going back.


Yeah I initially stuck the Spinfit CP360 on mine and thought they fit in the case but they were actually slightly loose so the charging kept dropping in and out. As you said, the most annoying thing is the width being an issue as well as the depth so even stubby tips from other TWS I have don't fit very well.

So far the Soundpeats Truefree+ are the only TWS I've had that can fit every tip I've tried in their case, even CP100's which are pretty deep. Unfortunately they're a few years old now, don't sound the best and their controls are awful (non touch & stiff buttons, not a fun combo).

Luckily I can get a decent fit with the standard buds but I can see your frustration. As for getting them out I also had issues at first but I've discovered that if you push on the buds from the middle of the case out towards the side they lift out and then you can grab them.


----------



## Caipirina

chinmie said:


> it grows on you, isn't?


and only now I discovered the EQ   ... yep, those I keep ... 
one thing I need to double check is the battery time ... got  a low battery warning today and had a 'feeling' this was too early .. fluke or defect, let's see
Already have that same leather case from AE in my shopping cart


----------



## malfario

RemoGaggi said:


> Thanks for the suggestion, but I don't have any Sprial Dots.  They're $18 on Amazon and unfortunately, I can't justify spending another $18 to take a chance to make these SiFi 2 work for me.  The SiFi 2 came with both standard and shallow tips in all the sizes, but none of them work for me.  When I have listened to them while gently pressing them in deeper, they do sound very good.  The last straw for me was just a few minutes ago when I had to fight with them to get them out of the case.  They are shaped so that there is absolutely nothing to grab onto or get leverage to pop them out - the widest point of the earbud is flush with the inset of the case and they get thinner towards the touch control, which gives you nothing to grab onto.  It's like they are shaped to stay in the case.  I wish they would work, but they are going back.



Yeah, it's a shame but I don't think it's worth it spending more cash on the spirals just to find out they still don't fix the fit for you.
Regarding getting them out the case, the trick for me is pushing the units outwards. They will slide out from the socket and you'll be able to grab them easily.
Good luck!


----------



## Caipirina

Bartig said:


> Having some doubt whether it will be better than the Boltune BH023 though.


WHere / how did you get those Boltunebh023? I have not found any EU source for them yet


----------



## assassin10000

FYLegend said:


> Is it just me or does the case seem to drain more if you charge it with a cable rather than wireless charging overnight?



That is weird. I pretty much only wireless charge mine and set them to the side, so my phone can charge over night. 

At least there is no case draining issues like the original MTW.


----------



## jasonb (Jun 18, 2020)

Just got a few more tips for my wf1000xm3. I've been having trouble with silicone tips for them, and ive had a pair of Spinfit tips, but I don't know which model, but I've never had good luck with them on any IEM. 

Well the Spinfit CP360 fit the wf1000xm3 well, and the size medium fits my ears well. Immediate comfort is good, and sound is good. I'm not sure how long term comfort is with this combo yet though. They seem to be secure in my ears as well, but that will take some time to be completely sure of as well. 

I also got some of the Comply Smartcore Audio Pro tips in size medium as well, but I haven't tried them yet. 

The TWS version of the Dekoni Bulletz fits the wf1000xm3 well and comfort, stability in the ears, and the sound is good with them as well.

About 45 minutes in and the CP360 and wf1000xm3 combo is working well for my ears. I'm liking this a lot so far. With the EQ settings I'm using they kind of remind me of my Elear with Utopia pads, obviously not as good, but the FR is close enough for me.

Well I also just tried the Comply Smartcore Audio Pro tips and the size medium that I ordered is just too big.  They also make the wf1000xm3 stick way out of my ears. They just aren't going to work. So I'll be using the CP360's when I want silicone, and the Dekoni Bulletz when I want to use foams.


----------



## dw13

hmscott said:


> That's great news!  Thanks for posting your initial reaction; how are they doing now after breaking in over the last 10 days?
> 
> Sorry I didn't see your reply sooner, I'm very happy to see you like them.
> 
> ...


I really haven't listened to the KZ's much, but I was surprised at how good they sounded for the price.  When I listen to wireless, I use the Audio-Technica ATH-ANC300TW--they sound really good, but not as good as my drowned Sony XM3's.  The KZ's are a backup.

I hope you enjoy your KZ S2's.


----------



## chinmie

apparently the Tronsmart Onyx Free has a really bad call quality


----------



## Caipirina

Caipirina said:


> Other reason is that I probably get some money back from AE .. finally they let me file disputes for stuff that's long overdue (before the dispute system would say 'it is still on the way, please wait some more'), one minor dispute already 'won', so, no QCY T5 for me  .. the bigger ticket items are still being decided by AE's bots ... one of them is the ~100$ Edifier TWS NB (yep, no 69$ offer for me) and if that comes through I might order here from amazon for 99€ ...



I spoke too early, Amazon.de just lowered the price of those Edifiers from 99€ to 79€ ... 

My disputing with AliEx is going well, so far 5 out of 7 have been decided in my favor, the last 2 they ask to still wait a bit (despite being way past the initial 60 day mark), one is that Edifier, they ask for 1 more day   (the other is an Anker, they ask for 11 more days)


----------



## webvan

Edifier ANC, hum...not many reviews on Amazon, can't remember if we got some feedback here ? Hard to think it's not "weak sauce" ANC for that price...


----------



## Uzirox

First message here, I hope I make no mistakes! 
I go straight to the point: what is the TWS with "ambient mode" (or trasparency mode, or... you've figured it ) that cost less? 
Thank you in advance.


----------



## RemoGaggi

Caipirina said:


> Indecisiveness ...  I am now more leaning towards keeping the XM3 ... they do sound really nice ... and I can still try all kinds of tips.
> 
> Other reason is that I probably get some money back from AE .. finally they let me file disputes for stuff that's long overdue (before the dispute system would say 'it is still on the way, please wait some more'), one minor dispute already 'won', so, no QCY T5 for me  .. the bigger ticket items are still being decided by AE's bots ... one of them is the ~100$ Edifier TWS NB (yep, no 69$ offer for me) and if that comes through I might order here from amazon for 99€ ...


 What types of disputes are you having with AE?  Are you not receiving your items or they not honoring the warranty?


----------



## webvan (Jun 19, 2020)

Bartig said:


> Not the most detailed sound, but boy, the ANC is great on those. Much better than Xiaomi's, Huawei/ Honor's or even Boltune's efforts.


Good to hear but how does it compare to the "better ANC" like on the APP, XM3, EchoBuds ?

EDIT - ok found your review here https://www.scarbir.com/tws/edifier-tws-nb-review - ANC looks decent but the design...hard pass


----------



## howdy

Anyone have the Jabra Elite 75ts? I see they are on sale at Target for 99.00!


----------



## myltz400

howdy said:


> Anyone have the Jabra Elite 75ts? I see they are on sale at Target for 99.00!


I see the refurbished for that price, many positive reviews in this thread.


----------



## howdy

myltz400 said:


> I see the refurbished for that price, many positive reviews in this thread.


Yep, manufacturer refurbished. I've always liked Jabra. I have the elite Active 65t but I read that the 75 sound a lot better. And, for me at least, they are most reliable ones.


----------



## Caipirina

RemoGaggi said:


> What types of disputes are you having with AE?  Are you not receiving your items or they not honoring the warranty?



I ordered a LOT of stuff in that end of March sale and for 3 months nothing happened ... some have shown up now ... I tried earlier to start disputes, because when I ordered most items had a 'get in 60 days or full refund' clause ... but AE just padded that again and again without asking the customers and I was not even able to log a complaint ('still in transit') ... but now I saw that some items even went back to China, those I disputed first and got the 'win' pretty much straight away ... the I disputed everything that had been out for over 2 (some of them 3) months .. and if it was below 30$, seems I got auto-bot approval. And now the bigger items are being decided, that Edifier TWS just got through .. getting 96$ back, ordered now from Amazon for 80€ ...   what I am not getting back are all those fun coupons I used


----------



## Caipirina (Jun 19, 2020)

webvan said:


> Good to hear but how does it compare to the "better ANC" like on the APP, XM3, EchoBuds ?
> 
> EDIT - ok found your review here https://www.scarbir.com/tws/edifier-tws-nb-review - ANC looks decent but the design...hard pass



Looked at quite some other reviews (i think there was some on YT? ) but that is all soooo long ago ... but I am curious about the ANC
Also ordered those 1More ANC ... and even an ANC enabled clone of the sony wf1000xm3, because 'cheap' and me curious   and i think @chinmie brought those up here  let's blame him ...

But i think I am done for a while .. .next thing I really want are the Bose ANC .. whenever they come out


----------



## hifi80sman

howdy said:


> Yep, manufacturer refurbished. I've always liked Jabra. I have the elite Active 65t but I read that the 75 sound a lot better. And, for me at least, they are most reliable ones.


I've been looking at those as well.  Have some Target gift cards...

@HeadphoneAddict got the Manufactured Refurbished pair.  I don't remember if he kept them or gave them to to one of his kids.  If you're going to go refurbished, direct from the manufacturer is the way to go.  From what I understand, many of these are basically returns sent back to them by retailers, they check them, clean, then repackage as refurbished.  Also, someone told me they don't reuse the eartips, so those should all be new.  I'm sure some of my purchases/returns are out there as refurbished.


----------



## alterndog

hifi80sman said:


> I've been looking at those as well.  Have some Target gift cards...
> 
> @HeadphoneAddict got the Manufactured Refurbished pair.  I don't remember if he kept them or gave them to to one of his kids.  If you're going to go refurbished, direct from the manufacturer is the way to go.  From what I understand, many of these are basically returns sent back to them by retailers, they check them, clean, then repackage as refurbished.  Also, someone told me they don't reuse the eartips, so those should all be new.  I'm sure some of my purchases/returns are out there as refurbished.



FYI for you and others. If you have an Amazon Prime CC they are offering 25% cash back for the Jabra Elite Active 75t (mint color). With the current sale price of $180 that should net you about $47 cashback. Not as cheap as the Target $99 for the 75t, but they are new and I hear the Active 75t are considered better. What scares me about refurbished even direct from Jabra is the 6 month warranty vs 1 year warranty for new.


----------



## RemoGaggi

Caipirina said:


> I ordered a LOT of stuff in that end of March sale and for 3 months nothing happened ... some have shown up now ... I tried earlier to start disputes, because when I ordered most items had a 'get in 60 days or full refund' clause ... but AE just padded that again and again without asking the customers and I was not even able to log a complaint ('still in transit') ... but now I saw that some items even went back to China, those I disputed first and got the 'win' pretty much straight away ... the I disputed everything that had been out for over 2 (some of them 3) months .. and if it was below 30$, seems I got auto-bot approval. And now the bigger items are being decided, that Edifier TWS just got through .. getting 96$ back, ordered now from Amazon for 80€ ...   what I am not getting back are all those fun coupons I used


Wow.  I haven't ordered anything from AE, but I was thinking about getting some of the Edifier X3 that Scarbir liked.  They are only $19 on AE, but it sounds like it may never get here.  Maybe I'll wait for Amazon US to carry them.  It'll probably be faster.


----------



## Caipirina

RemoGaggi said:


> Wow.  I haven't ordered anything from AE, but I was thinking about getting some of the Edifier X3 that Scarbir liked.  They are only $19 on AE, but it sounds like it may never get here.  Maybe I'll wait for Amazon US to carry them.  It'll probably be faster.


To be very very fair: I NEVER had problems with AE logistics until Corona hit ... and then it was not even AE's fault, my regular country of residence shut down their mail system! THis caused a lot of delay / sending stuff back / not knowing where stuff is ... I see that I have 2 items I had originally ordered end of March .. and they obviously went back to China and were JUST sent out again ... so, this will be like 4 months in the end ... but again .. this is all Corona Anomaly


----------



## Caipirina

RemoGaggi said:


> I was thinking about getting some of the Edifier X3 that Scarbir liked.


I ordered those May 26 and today I received message that it has arrived in my country (which during the summer months is Germany  ) .. but yeah, you could also wait for amazon US to carry them


----------



## Luke Skywalker

jasonb said:


> Just got a few more tips for my wf1000xm3. I've been having trouble with silicone tips for them, and ive had a pair of Spinfit tips, but I don't know which model, but I've never had good luck with them on any IEM.
> 
> Well the Spinfit CP360 fit the wf1000xm3 well, and the size medium fits my ears well. Immediate comfort is good, and sound is good. I'm not sure how long term comfort is with this combo yet though. They seem to be secure in my ears as well, but that will take some time to be completely sure of as well.
> 
> ...


Have you tried the Acoustune AET08 tips?  I'm using them on the XM3's and also my JH Lola's and they are awesome.  Only ones I found that get a good seal and keep my Lola's from falling out when i walk, chew food, etc.  Fit great on the XM3 and the case closes, etc.


----------



## chinmie

Caipirina said:


> Looked at quite some other reviews (i think there was some on YT? ) but that is all soooo long ago ... but I am curious about the ANC
> Also ordered those 1More ANC ... and even an ANC enabled clone of the sony wf1000xm3, because 'cheap' and me curious   and i think @chinmie brought those up here  let's blame him ...
> 
> But i think I am done for a while .. .next thing I really want are the Bose ANC .. whenever they come out



whaat?? meee?? I'd never do such thing!! 





by the way, here's another XM3 clone also with airoha chip, DSEE HX, but with "improvements" from XM3 such as bigger 10mm drivers, wireless charging, and also secure wings 
https://m.aliexpress.com/item/10000323187260.html


----------



## FYLegend

assassin10000 said:


> That is weird. I pretty much only wireless charge mine and set them to the side, so my phone can charge over night.
> 
> At least there is no case draining issues like the original MTW.


hmm, how often do you use them until you charge them? If I use about 15% per listening session, the battery of the case seem to drop by 20-25%


Uzirox said:


> First message here, I hope I make no mistakes!
> I go straight to the point: what is the TWS with "ambient mode" (or trasparency mode, or... you've figured it ) that cost less?
> Thank you in advance.



Here's some TWS with ambient mode for under 100$:
Jabees Firefly, Firefly Pro and Firefly.2 - I had the Firefly Pro, not quite as good as Jabra 65t in ambient mode quality but still fairly usable.
Mifo O5 (I think only some variants have it, O7 doesn't unfortunately)
Aufo M1 - This one decreases the volume. The ambient feed hisses a lot though.
FIIL T1XS - They call it "monitor mode" which lowers the volume.


----------



## Caipirina (Jun 19, 2020)

chinmie said:


> whaat?? meee?? I'd never do such thing!!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


You are doing it again .... 

Shop with 0.0% ... what could possibly go wrong ...


----------



## chinmie

Caipirina said:


> You are doing it again ....
> 
> Shop with 0.0% ... what could possibly go wrong ...



i generally won't make a move unless there's at least a few positive reviews, and also seeing some actual product photos from the reviews  
I'm pretty much covered for ANC now, so now I'm browsing for some open earbuds/sabbat alternatives, just to wear around the house. still stuck between Soundpeats trueair and Tronsmart onyx ace, unless there's a better alternative. 

nowadays bt version 5.1 and 5.2 TWSs seems to be popping out on AE


----------



## Sam L

What have you guys tried lately in the < $50 range that has decent outgoing audio quality for phone calls?


----------



## soullinker20

hi guys to those using sennheiser mtw 2, how is it for phone calls compared to the old model?


----------



## jasonb

Luke Skywalker said:


> Have you tried the Acoustune AET08 tips?  I'm using them on the XM3's and also my JH Lola's and they are awesome.  Only ones I found that get a good seal and keep my Lola's from falling out when i walk, chew food, etc.  Fit great on the XM3 and the case closes, etc.



I have not tried those. These CP360's are working well though.


----------



## hifi80sman

alterndog said:


> FYI for you and others. If you have an Amazon Prime CC they are offering 25% cash back for the Jabra Elite Active 75t (mint color). With the current sale price of $180 that should net you about $47 cashback. Not as cheap as the Target $99 for the 75t, but they are new and I hear the Active 75t are considered better. What scares me about refurbished even direct from Jabra is the 6 month warranty vs 1 year warranty for new.


Thanks.  Looks like it's sold out.  I'd have to think twice about the color, but it's still a good deal for new.


----------



## hifi80sman

chinmie said:


> whaat?? meee?? I'd never do such thing!!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Interesting.  I'd take claims of "DSEE HX" with a spoonful of salt.  They kind of look like a hybrid between the WF-1000X and the XM3.


----------



## Uzirox (Jun 20, 2020)

FYLegend said:


> Here's some TWS with ambient mode for under 100$:
> Jabees Firefly, Firefly Pro and Firefly.2 - I had the Firefly Pro, not quite as good as Jabra 65t in ambient mode quality but still fairly usable.
> Mifo O5 (I think only some variants have it, O7 doesn't unfortunately)
> Aufo M1 - This one decreases the volume. The ambient feed hisses a lot though.
> FIIL T1XS - They call it "monitor mode" which lowers the volume.



Thank you so much. Unfortunately seems that no one is available on Amazon.it :/ Well, I still search. Or maybe Aliexpress, but I don't like it.


----------



## axhng

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4001117764958.html

"new" haylou GT1 XR. Looks like GT1 Plus earbuds with GT1 Pro's larger case?


----------



## rlanger

howdy said:


> Anyone have the Jabra Elite 75ts? I see they are on sale at Target for 99.00!



I have the Active 75Ts and before that I had the 65Ts.

Absolutely love everything about the 75s. I'm using SpinFit 360 tips, and as I mentioned earlier in this thread, I Sugru modded them. They are now more comfortable than my customs and block out more noise too.

Be warned however, my left earbud just stopped working after 10 days. A search for a fix turned up many others with the same problem.

I bought mine from a brick and mortar store so was easily able to exchange them for a new pair.

I wouldn't be surprised though if many of those refurbs were returns like mine.

If you're willing to take a chance on them you won't be disappointed.


----------



## howdy

rlanger said:


> I have the Active 75Ts and before that I had the 65Ts.
> 
> Absolutely love everything about the 75s. I'm using SpinFit 360 tips, and as I mentioned earlier in this thread, I Sugru modded them. They are now more comfortable than my customs and block out more noise too.
> 
> ...


Yeah I've read that same issue as well. I will take my chance. I'm waiting for the Target or best buy near me to get the solid black one in. I have the active 65t and so far so good. I read that the 65s had the same issue with the left bud dying and or way quieter than the right. 
Hopefully your new one will be issue free. You'd think they'd figure it out as it's gotta cost a lot to keep swapping them out.


----------



## BigZ12

I'm on my 3rd pair of Airpods Pro.
Starting to lose faith in them.
They work very well at first, with ok bass and the ear tip fit test show Green/Good seal.
But after a while the bass weakens, and I just get yellow in the fit test.
Just got the second replacements, green test everytime and noticably more bass than the ones I returned. 

Do any of you in here have similar experiences?


----------



## Sam L (Jun 20, 2020)

BigZ12 said:


> I'm on my 3rd pair of Airpods Pro.
> Starting to lose faith in them.
> They work very well at first, with ok bass and the ear tip fit test show Green/Good seal.
> But after a while the bass weakens, and I just get yellow in the fit test.
> ...


I haven't had any issues with my or my wife's airpods pros. I've noticed the bass and sound has changed noticeably throughout the various firmware upgrades.


----------



## myltz400 (Jun 20, 2020)

BigZ12 said:


> I'm on my 3rd pair of Airpods Pro.
> Starting to lose faith in them.
> They work very well at first, with ok bass and the ear tip fit test show Green/Good seal.
> But after a while the bass weakens, and I just get yellow in the fit test.
> ...



I have not experienced that yet.  I must confess that I only performed the test once, I can tell without it if I have a good seal or not.   
So far mine have been solid with the exception of an occasional drop in volume when switching between android and IOS devices.

Respectfully, wouldn't the failure of the tip test be a failure of the tip?  Perhaps the miss shaped?


----------



## hifi80sman

Sam L said:


> I haven't had any issues with my or my wife's airpods pros. I've noticed the bass and sound has changed noticeably throughout the various firmware upgrades.


I think Apple should really develop their own house sound or shoot for the Harman Target Curve.  It seems like their "sound guy" may simply be a Hipster Millennial in an office "Safe Space", oblivious of the real world.


----------



## BigZ12

myltz400 said:


> I have not experienced that yet.  I must confess that I only performed the test once, I can tell without it if I have a good seal or not.
> So far mine have been solid with the exception of an occasional drop in volume when switching between android and IOS devices.
> 
> Respectfully, wouldn't the failure of the tip test be a failure of the tip?  Perhaps the miss shaped?


When I got my first set, and then replacements, everything sounds great and the fit test is green. But as I said, after a while I hear a difference in bass and the fit test is consequently yellow. With the same tip all the time.
Many other are reporting this in Apple Community, and also at Reddit for ex.. I asked here, cause you guys know more and maybe one of you knew why this happens?
One theory on the forums I've read, is debris in the mesh of the Airpods. Actually one used Blue Tack to get out any oils/wax etc that were blocking the mesh, and then the fit test was green again.


----------



## hifi80sman

I posted this in the deals section as well, but I pulled the trigger on the MW07 Plus.  40% off sitewide at Master & Dynamic using promo code PARTNER40.


----------



## JOSELICHI

hifi80sman said:


> I posted this in the deals section as well, but I pulled the trigger on the MW07 Plus.  40% off sitewide at Master & Dynamic using promo code PARTNER40.


 Many thks. Whats your opinion about them?


----------



## hifi80sman

JOSELICHI said:


> Many thks. Whats your opinion about them?


I just ordered them today, so I haven’t received them yet, but looking forward getting them soon!


----------



## TooFrank

Luke Skywalker said:


> Have you tried the Acoustune AET08 tips?  I'm using them on the XM3's and also my JH Lola's and they are awesome.  Only ones I found that get a good seal and keep my Lola's from falling out when i walk, chew food, etc.  Fit great on the XM3 and the case closes, etc.


FWIW: comply true grip Pro are really good with the XM3s


----------



## Nchzr

My very first post here. My Fiil T1XS just arrived. First impression, the sound is great on them (I not an audiophile or audio enthusiast). Instruments and vocals sound very clean, bass can be thumpy and rumbly. I dont have T1 to compare. Ambient sound mode is good but can sound artificial at times. However, I noticed a clicky sound on the left earbud when inserting into my ear. 

Right now, T1XS is not supported on the app from play store. U need to download the Chinese language Fiil+ app from the qr code that come in the box.


----------



## voicemaster

Nchzr said:


> My very first post here. My Fiil T1XS just arrived. First impression, the sound is great on them (I not an audiophile or audio enthusiast). Instruments and vocals sound very clean, bass can be thumpy and rumbly. I dont have T1 to compare. Ambient sound mode is good but can sound artificial at times. However, I noticed a clicky sound on the left earbud when inserting into my ear.
> 
> Right now, T1XS is not supported on the app from play store. U need to download the Chinese language Fiil+ app from the qr code that come in the box.


What functions and features are in the Chinese app?


----------



## voicemaster

Not really TWS 

Ghetto bluetooth conversion


----------



## bedlamite

hifi80sman said:


> I posted this in the deals section as well, but I pulled the trigger on the MW07 Plus.  40% off sitewide at Master & Dynamic using promo code PARTNER40.


Many thanks for the heads-up.The budget’s a little tight now so I hope the code lasts till the following weekend, when my finances are freed up. Those MW07+s are calling out to me!


----------



## howdy

Got the 75ts can't wait to hear them?


----------



## Caipirina

Question for my fellow WF1000XM3 users ... since I could still return until July 8, I am rather critical ... and is it just me or can the BT connection be rather iffy? Slight crinkle wrinkle here and there ... but also sometimes total disconnect for no apparent reason !!! and if I'd happen to be somewhere without the case, i'd be screwed ... 

Just updated to latest software update .. let's see if that makes a difference ...


----------



## Bartig

I put a lof of time into it, some of it to get the app to work. Well, it doesn't work outside of China it seems. But the Fiil CC really is the best designed and best sounding half-in-ear wireless earphone - whoah. Review.


----------



## Bartig

Caipirina said:


> WHere / how did you get those Boltunebh023? I have not found any EU source for them yet


Boltune sent them to me. Sometimes, a manufacturer actually does that.


----------



## chinmie

Caipirina said:


> Question for my fellow WF1000XM3 users ... since I could still return until July 8, I am rather critical ... and is it just me or can the BT connection be rather iffy? Slight crinkle wrinkle here and there ... but also sometimes total disconnect for no apparent reason !!! and if I'd happen to be somewhere without the case, i'd be screwed ...
> 
> Just updated to latest software update .. let's see if that makes a difference ...



i don't have that problem connected to my Note 8, but when connected to my tablet (samsung tab s2) that uses older bt version, i had experienced stutter, but really rare occasion..never to a point of total lost connection. 

you can turn on the earpiece without using the case, also you can initiate bluetooth re-pair-ing by holding the touch button for several seconds


----------



## eiraku (Jun 21, 2020)

voicemaster said:


> Not really TWS
> 
> Ghetto bluetooth conversion



Very interesting. How's that working out for you?

TBH I have ALWAYS wanted to do something similar to my Senn PX100iis (due to the SHEER LACK of "foldable" on-ear BT options out there - besides the Porta Pro BT anyway). Never could bring myself to butcher the built in cable into something shorter for this to "properly" work, though looking at this has just got my interest re-sparked.


----------



## voicemaster

eiraku said:


> Very interesting. How's that working out for you?
> 
> TBH I have ALWAYS wanted to do something similar to my Senn PX100iis (due to the SHEER LACK of "foldable" on-ear BT options out there - besides the Porta Pro BT anyway). Never could bring myself to butcher the built in cable into something shorter for this to "properly" work, though looking at this has just got my interest re-sparked.


It works fine. Of course it won't drive the planar driver to its maximum potential like an amp do, but it gets loud enough and its nice to not have wire. The bluetooth receiver is fiio ubtr ($19.99 on amazon) and it is pretty small. I don’t feel any extra weight from it.


----------



## TYATYA

I just want Technic AZ70W to be small as E8v3.
Best in sound quality but not Ambient mode or touch gesture


----------



## jasonb

TooFrank said:


> FWIW: comply true grip Pro are really good with the XM3s



I have them and the Dekoni Bulletz. I like the Dekoni Bulletz more


----------



## TheLionelHutz

Bartig said:


> I put a lof of time into it, some of it to get the app to work. Well, it doesn't work outside of China it seems. But the Fiil CC really is the best designed and best sounding half-in-ear wireless earphone - whoah. Review.


Thanks for the review. How do these feel? I have the SoundPeats for conference calls, and I find that they cause my ears to ache after an hour or so.


----------



## luisrodl (Jun 21, 2020)

eiraku said:


> Very interesting. How's that working out for you?
> 
> TBH I have ALWAYS wanted to do something similar to my Senn PX100iis (due to the SHEER LACK of "foldable" on-ear BT options out there - besides the Porta Pro BT anyway). Never could bring myself to butcher the built in cable into something shorter for this to "properly" work, though looking at this has just got my interest re-sparked.



You are right that the aren't many options, but this one is the closest I've found to the PX100ii. They are the Status BT One and to my ears they sound pretty similar to the PX100ii. Battery life is 30 hours, Aptx, and they go for around $60 USD of you get a discount code. They are my go to portable BT headphones. I highly recommend them!


----------



## clerkpalmer

Finally got my fathers day SP800n. First impressions are positive. Sound quality is very good. Not as good as the MTW2 but well above average. I am using the bright setting with a few tweaks. Based on memory, they sound identical to the 1000xm3 but without the dsse processor which I had mixed feelings about any way.

Most importantly, the fit is solid for me.  Large wings and large tips give me a secure fit.  This fixes the major deal breaker to me of the 1000xm3 (that and the lack of an IP rating).

My use case will be primarily for working out and cycling where I dont want to use the MTW2 and want better sq than the APP.

For me, these are an upgrade in every way to the 1000xm3. If there's any drop in sq, its imperceptible to me and the fit and sweatproofing make these a much better product.


----------



## VICosPhi

hifi80sman said:


> I posted this in the deals section as well, but I pulled the trigger on the MW07 Plus.  40% off sitewide at Master & Dynamic using promo code PARTNER40.



Thank you! This is very tempting but a lack of Equalizer app is a deal breaker for me. Jabra 75t sound great to me and the fit is also one of the best.


----------



## bronco1015

soullinker20 said:


> hi guys to those using sennheiser mtw 2, how is it for phone calls compared to the old model?


I've used the MTW2 for calls off and on, with no background noise i didn't have any issues, and on a shuttle a few weeks back i placed a call, i remember i had to raise my voice slightly, but it wasn't loud after i'd done so, was just louder than i wanted to talk at the moment. hard to quantify, but i'd say it's a definite improovement over MTW1. Based on what i own though, ranking best to worst for call quality, i have to put them into 3 tiers. Top tier is Google Pixel buds 2 plantronics Backbeat Pro 5100.
2nd tier is MTW2, Nuarl N6 Pro and MTW. Could rank those last 2 either way. 3rd tier is Anbes359. I just got rid of them, but the Tronsmart spunky beat were the worst i owned for call quality.


----------



## RobinFood

Bartig said:


> I put a lof of time into it, some of it to get the app to work. Well, it doesn't work outside of China it seems. But the Fiil CC really is the best designed and best sounding half-in-ear wireless earphone - whoah. Review.



Awesome! I've been looking for a premium half in ear for such a long time and had settled in ambient mode being my best hope at something similar!

Every website I've seen with the Foil CC for sale claims it has active noise reduction... Being half in ear I don't expect it to be amazing, but did you notice of they isolate better than your other half in ear sets?


----------



## Sam L

bronco1015 said:


> I've used the MTW2 for calls off and on, with no background noise i didn't have any issues, and on a shuttle a few weeks back i placed a call, i remember i had to raise my voice slightly, but it wasn't loud after i'd done so, was just louder than i wanted to talk at the moment. hard to quantify, but i'd say it's a definite improovement over MTW1. Based on what i own though, ranking best to worst for call quality, i have to put them into 3 tiers. Top tier is Google Pixel buds 2 plantronics Backbeat Pro 5100.
> 2nd tier is MTW2, Nuarl N6 Pro and MTW. Could rank those last 2 either way. 3rd tier is Anbes359. I just got rid of them, but the Tronsmart spunky beat were the worst i owned for call quality.


How's the SQ with the pixel buds 2? Cursory look at reviews seemed not too impressed.


----------



## jasonb

I've had my wf1000xm3 for almost 2 weeks and have been using them everyday. I'm really enjoying them. I like the noise cancelling, the ambient sound, and the EQ. They fit me well with Spinfit 360's, Comply foam, or Dekoni Bulletz foam tips. I should have gotten them sooner, but they are a much better deal at $180, than at $230.


----------



## soullinker20

bronco1015 said:


> I've used the MTW2 for calls off and on, with no background noise i didn't have any issues, and on a shuttle a few weeks back i placed a call, i remember i had to raise my voice slightly, but it wasn't loud after i'd done so, was just louder than i wanted to talk at the moment. hard to quantify, but i'd say it's a definite improovement over MTW1. Based on what i own though, ranking best to worst for call quality, i have to put them into 3 tiers. Top tier is Google Pixel buds 2 plantronics Backbeat Pro 5100.
> 2nd tier is MTW2, Nuarl N6 Pro and MTW. Could rank those last 2 either way. 3rd tier is Anbes359. I just got rid of them, but the Tronsmart spunky beat were the worst i owned for call quality.



Thank You for this. I'll be getting them then. sold my wf-1000xm3 for these as I do love sennheiser.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

hifi80sman said:


> I've been looking at those as well.  Have some Target gift cards...
> 
> @HeadphoneAddict got the Manufactured Refurbished pair.  I don't remember if he kept them or gave them to to one of his kids.  If you're going to go refurbished, direct from the manufacturer is the way to go.  From what I understand, many of these are basically returns sent back to them by retailers, they check them, clean, then repackage as refurbished.  Also, someone told me they don't reuse the eartips, so those should all be new.  I'm sure some of my purchases/returns are out there as refurbished.



I got the refurbished Jabra through newegg.com for $99, shipped direct from Jabra I think, and have kept them. I bought the extra warranty at the same time. Came in a plastic bag with new tips.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict (Jun 22, 2020)

Caipirina said:


> Question for my fellow WF1000XM3 users ... since I could still return until July 8, I am rather critical ... and is it just me or can the BT connection be rather iffy? Slight crinkle wrinkle here and there ... but also sometimes total disconnect for no apparent reason !!! and if I'd happen to be somewhere without the case, i'd be screwed ...
> 
> Just updated to latest software update .. let's see if that makes a difference ...



You'll see I've complained about buggy BT connections from day 1, with the WF-SP800N (returned) and WF-1000XM3 too (kept so far).

IF it happens and you don't have the case, you can take them out of your ears for a moment, then put them in your ears and press and hold on both touchpad until they go into pairing mode, and try clicking on the XM3 in BT settings to connect. This sometimes works, without having to put them in the case. Or, maybe if they do go into pairing mode but still wont connect, remove them from your BT profile and re-pair them as a last resort?


----------



## nihontoman

hey everyone. 

got my Alien Secret iems 3 days ago. intiial impressions are as follows:

build quality and comfort WAY above the QCY T5. the case feels more solid and looks good. so do the iems - pretty well finished and quite small. comfort is otherwordly - stays in my ears with every tip imaginable  even mywifewho has pixie ears and couldn't get the QCY T5 to stay in her ears, can literally dance in these and they stay and don't fall off.

the battery last very long and It does charge wireless. very cool.

now for the sound - I like it but there is one major downside - the sub base region is TOO elevated for my taste and even though it is very well controlled, it still is too loud. I equalize it down a notch right arounდ 50-80 herz mark and then it becomes fantastic.had an impression that it was a slightly bright, almost hissy iem, but I'd say it is a well pronounced L shape curve, with too long a foot


----------



## chinmie

There's a new QCY T5 version called the T5 Pro, apparently it uses BA drivers and have the T3's swipe to control volume feature


----------



## Caipirina

nihontoman said:


> hey everyone.
> 
> got my Alien Secret iems 3 days ago. intiial impressions are as follows:
> 
> ...


That’s the new ones?


----------



## Caipirina

Going on a 5 night trip and can’t decide which tws I dare leave behind. This is what I have so far that HAS to come along


----------



## Caipirina

chinmie said:


> There's a new QCY T5 version called the T5 Pro, apparently it uses BA drivers and have the T3's swipe to control volume feature


If it is only mentioned in the specs and on none of the pretty advertising pics, I usually call BS ...
They would advertise the heck out of it if it really had BA ...


----------



## chinmie

Caipirina said:


> If it is only mentioned in the specs and on none of the pretty advertising pics, I usually call BS ...
> They would advertise the heck out of it if it really had BA ...



yup, they only mentioned it on the written description, while the ad pictures are still in chinese


----------



## HeadphoneAddict (Jun 22, 2020)

Caipirina said:


> Going on a 5 night trip and can’t decide which tws I dare leave behind. This is what I have so far that HAS to come along


I went for a 3-day 2-night trip to Estes Park CO, and just got back. I brought my XM3, Powerbeats Pro, APP, GBuds+, and Jabra 75t with me. *I just ordered the MW07 Plus to see if I like them more than the buggy XM3, before it's too late to return the XM3*, and should have them by the end of the week.

But, I only used my Powerbeats Pro for bike rides, and my XM3 with ANC to block out the noisy refrigerator for watching YouTube videos on my MacBook at night so as to not disturb my wife.


----------



## nihontoman

Caipirina said:


> That’s the new ones?


dunno, I ordered them at the beginning of 2020. really like the sound when equalized, very detailed, spacious and airy, with very authoritative bass and overall sound.


----------



## bronco1015

Sam L said:


> How's the SQ with the pixel buds 2? Cursory look at reviews seemed not too impressed.


Sound isn't bad at all imo. I've read some reviews as well, and rereading some of them after owning the pixelbuds makes me wonder if they had any fit issues. i need to spend more time with them but initially, to me they sound very similar to the Airpods pro. Similar type of bass, clearer mor full sounding mids across the board, and slightly better high end. And i wouldn't be surprised if the sound profile was tweeked by google at some point, both because they've mentioned feature drops coming specificly for the pixel buds, and because of the potential i hear in the drivers. I was on the phone with my mom a few days ago and she was going through a menue on her sattelite remote and there was this bassy tone that came through a couple times, probably after making a selection, but i felt that in the pixelbuds similar to how i can feel piano notes in songs. All things considered, i think they're worth what i payed for them. I wouldn't pay full price for them, partially because of the great sounding cheaper options that exist. E.G. the drivers and tuning on the pixelbuds are not better than the l2p or N6P. if you want these, i'd wait for a sale.


----------



## Viber

So after reading many reviews about the TRN BT20S, i can confidently say they are believed to be somewhere between 'Amazing' and 'Trash'
, but take that with a grain of salt.


----------



## RobinFood (Jun 22, 2020)

Viber said:


> So after reading many reviews about the TRN BT20S, i can confidently say they are believed to be somewhere between 'Amazing' and 'Trash'
> , but take that with a grain of salt.




Like many other things from Aliexpress it's just a case of rolling those quality control 🎲 🎲

I got snake eyes on mine. Otherwise I would probably talk about how amazing they are for the price...


----------



## eiraku

luisrodl said:


> You are right that the aren't many options, but this one is the closest I've found to the PX100ii. They are the Status BT One and to my ears they sound pretty similar to the PX100ii. Battery life is 30 hours, Aptx, and they go for around $60 USD of you get a discount code. They are my go to portable BT headphones. I highly recommend them!



I actually replaced my PX100ii with AKG Y45BTs for a bit (they're pretty much the smallest BT over ears that - again - isn't the Porta Pro BT), but those pretty much died on me a while back.

The Status actually doesn't look half bad, considering the next one on my list is a helluva lot dearer (the Razer Opus).

Problem is, might not be easy to find shops that actually send these to the neck of the Asian woods that I'm located at lol.

I'll give them a peek anyway, who knows.


----------



## AudioNoob

has a blow-up but is unclear whether that is a round balanced armature or 6mm diaphragm


----------



## hifi80sman

eiraku said:


> I actually replaced my PX100ii with AKG Y45BTs for a bit (they're pretty much the smallest BT over ears that - again - isn't the Porta Pro BT), but those pretty much died on me a while back.
> 
> The Status actually doesn't look half bad, considering the next one on my list is a helluva lot dearer (the Razer Opus).
> 
> ...


The Status BT One sound great and are comfortable, but they're built like a child's toy.  If that's not an issue for you, $60 doesn't sound bad.  You can also add in some ANC if you want to roll with the AKG N60NC Wireless for $97.  AKG's website had them for $77 the other day, but $97 is still a great deal.  Comfortable, good build & sound.
https://www.amazon.com/AKG-Cancelling-Headphones-Wireless-Bluetooth/dp/B0721KKLB4

Anker Soundcore Liberty Air 2 also on sale for $79.  If you're not a big BA fan or sensitive to treble, these have a nice DD that EQ nicely.
https://www.amazon.com/Soundcore-Bluetooth-Earphones-Personalized-Cancelling/dp/B07SKJNCXM/


----------



## voicemaster

hifi80sman said:


> The Status BT One sound great and are comfortable, but they're built like a child's toy.  If that's not an issue for you, $60 doesn't sound bad.  You can also add in some ANC if you want to roll with the AKG N60NC Wireless for $97.  AKG's website had them for $77 the other day, but $97 is still a great deal.  Comfortable, good build & sound.
> https://www.amazon.com/AKG-Cancelling-Headphones-Wireless-Bluetooth/dp/B0721KKLB4
> 
> Anker Soundcore Liberty Air 2 also on sale for $79.  If you're not a big BA fan or sensitive to treble, these have a nice DD that EQ nicely.
> https://www.amazon.com/Soundcore-Bluetooth-Earphones-Personalized-Cancelling/dp/B07SKJNCXM/


That AKG looking dope.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

hifi80sman said:


> The Status BT One sound great and are comfortable, but they're built like a child's toy.  If that's not an issue for you, $60 doesn't sound bad.  You can also add in some ANC if you want to roll with the AKG N60NC Wireless for $97.  AKG's website had them for $77 the other day, but $97 is still a great deal.  Comfortable, good build & sound.
> https://www.amazon.com/AKG-Cancelling-Headphones-Wireless-Bluetooth/dp/B0721KKLB4
> 
> *Anker Soundcore Liberty Air 2 also on sale for $79. * If you're not a big BA fan or sensitive to treble, these have a nice DD that EQ nicely.
> https://www.amazon.com/Soundcore-Bluetooth-Earphones-Personalized-Cancelling/dp/B07SKJNCXM/



Good price on LA2, although at $99 I returned mine the sound wasn't much better than the FIIL T1X if I was able to get the T1X fit correct (it takes a few minutes to get the flexed binder up drivers to release). The LA2 had a slightly more grainy or artificial treble, which would EQ okay. But vs T1X the LA2 had the addition of (1) auto-pause when removed and (2) Qi charging, and (3) less driver flex issues. I did use the EQ to help make them a little more energetic sounding. So, for $79 they'd be worth it for someone who wants to avoid the T1X driver flex and stay under $100. 

I was using my Gbuds+ and Jabra 75t more due to the ambient or transparency mode, which I decided was too important from this point forward. So, I also returned the FIIL T1X for the driver flex in the right driver, although they let me keep them as a defective set. I keep some 3rd party olive-shape tips on them and keep them in my car as a spare set for TW emergencies. Since they have already been written off as defective, I will not sell the T1X where someone else can make a second warranty claim.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

HeadphoneAddict said:


> I went for a 3-day 2-night trip to Estes Park CO, and just got back. I brought my XM3, Powerbeats Pro, APP, GBuds+, and Jabra 75t with me. *I just ordered the MW07 Plus to see if I like them more than the buggy XM3, before it's too late to return the XM3*, and should have them by the end of the week.
> 
> But, I only used my Powerbeats Pro for bike rides, and my XM3 with ANC to block out the noisy refrigerator for watching YouTube videos on my MacBook at night so as to not disturb my wife.



My MW07 Plus should be here Thursday 6/25/20... I just wonder if I should have gone for jade or tortoise shell instead of the Kevin Durant Black Quartz color.


----------



## hifi80sman

HeadphoneAddict said:


> My MW07 Plus should be here Thursday 6/25/20... I just wonder if I should have gone for jade or tortoise shell instead of the Kevin Durant Black Quartz color.


I grabbed the MW07 Plus in Black Quartz as well.  Should arrive Wednesday 6/24, along with the MW65.  Kevin Durant literally called me and thanked me for my purchase.


----------



## chinmie

so I've been tinkering with my Pamu Unique to see if i can make it work. the biggest problem i have with this is because of the really small nozzle, and a weird oval shaped as well. all of the included tips can't make a seal for my ears.. the same problem that i have with th GGMM T1 and it's stock tips. 

but funny enough, the stock tips of the GGMM work nicely with the Pamu, albeit a bit loose, so i have to take a bit extra care when removing it so that the tips not left inside my ears 

next is the sound. the Pamu's sound reminds me of the Sony EX1000. similar ultra extended treble, but with more intimate staging, also warmer and bigger midbass than the EX1000. 
no problem with the mids and bass. it's the treble that's really bothering me. this (and also the EX1000) i find the treble to be too grating and revealing... 

but i found an odd revelation: i put a swab of water on the nozzle to try to dampen the treble... and it works! might find a more permanent solution like micropore tapes later on. 
the reason i dare to do this is because this Pamu is rated IPX6 anyway, and i used to bring the older Pamu Scroll to shower with no problem at all. i wouldn't dare swabbing a dab of water on the EX1000 or any other standard IEMs for that matter

my suggestion for anyone's interested on the Pamu slide/unique (they're all the same, just different cases) : if you regularly use L sized tips like me, you might want to reconsider, unless you're willing to tinker a bit. for M and S size tips users, the Pamus are an interesting deal. for the price, what they offer are a great deal: IPX6, 10 hours battery life, Aptx, and a solidly built earpiece. sound is subjective, but for me their driver capabilities are quite good. 

i might keep this after all


----------



## nihontoman

Would like to add to the impressions on the Alien Secret qcc010 iems.

I'm kinda getting used to the elevated sub-base region, but it is still too much for my taste.(I like the sound of the trn t200 more)  what is good though is the fact that it works with every tip you can through at these, and you can actually change a lot about the sound with different tips (especially the trebble region and to some extent - mids). they are comfortable with every tips I throw at these (the stock ones that are very short accidentally are the least comfortable).

the range is ridiculous - I work in a very big open space area, and I went downstairs and about 25-30 meters from the laptop into the bathroom and realized that I had these in my ears and the music was still playing as usual without no interference. mind you, that's about 3 walls in between the iems and the laptop in addition to the longish 25-30 meters of distance.


----------



## chinmie

https://www.notebookcheck.net/FCC-c...pport-ahead-of-imminent-release.477127.0.html

not really TWS news, but i think it confirms my findings that the current MTK/airoha chip has superior performance and user experience than the Qualcomm. 

also maybe because they just don't want to bother paying Qualcomm anymore?


----------



## webvan

It seems the MW07 Plus or Go never made it to Europe ? Amazon do have the old MW07 as Warehouse Deal for 77€ in blue though


----------



## Dcell7 (Jun 23, 2020)

webvan said:


> It seems the MW07 Plus or Go never made it to Europe ? Amazon do have the old MW07 as Warehouse Deal for 77€ in blue though



Amazon Germany ? never mind it is Amazon France.


----------



## webvan

Yes but aren't warehouse deals "European" ?


----------



## Dcell7

webvan said:


> Yes but aren't warehouse deals "European" ?



The different websites of Amazon in Europe all have their own prices. For example this 77 euro deal is only at Amazon France. On Amazon Germany it is 144 for the warehouse deal.


----------



## Caipirina

webvan said:


> Yes but aren't warehouse deals "European" ?


One difference seems to be that free shipping is only within France 


have not even checked if my .de credentials would work on .fr
Kinda in the middle of nowhere with very spotty internet


----------



## Dcell7

Caipirina said:


> One difference seems to be that free shipping is only within France
> 
> have not even checked if my .de credentials would work on .fr
> Kinda in the middle of nowhere with very spotty internet


Your DE credentials work on other European Amazon sites and even the .com website. Don’t know about Amazon Japan though.


----------



## webvan

Dcell7 said:


> The different websites of Amazon in Europe all have their own prices. For example this 77 euro deal is only at Amazon France. On Amazon Germany it is 144 for the warehouse deal.


ok, I've had warehouse deals in the past that were shipped from other European countries but I suppose it depends on the product.


----------



## Dcell7

webvan said:


> ok, I've had warehouse deals in the past that were shipped from other European countries but I suppose it depends on the product.



That is how Amazon operates. Different countries, different websites, different prices and your order can come from any of their warehouses in Europe.

I bought some toys on .NL and one was shipped from Germany and the other from Italy


----------



## ilatimer1

So I'm kind of stuck between the MW07 Plus and the Sennheiser MTW2s. When I first received the MTW2s, I almost sent the back right away. I did not realize how much a good fit matters. My initial thought was these sound like crap . I happen to have an extra pair of the Sounfit CP360s laying around and decided to try them on the MTW2s. Wow, what a world of difference in should. Before they sounded hollow and without and depth. With the Spinfit tips they now sound amazing. To the point that I am now not sure which ones to keep. The only downside i have with the MTW2s is that I still need to work at it to get a good deal, but when I do they sound fantastic.


----------



## webvan

Yeah, fit is THE first thing to check for, without a good fit there is no good seal and no good sound  The MTW2 fit me great with the stock tips, like the Echobuds and the Bomaker 2 and naturally these are the TWEs I go for. I'll probably be sending back the MTW2s as it's a bit hard to justify the price...maybe if I only had one pair. How do you find their ANC compared to the MW07 Plus where it's been described as "weak sauce" ?


----------



## hifi80sman

ilatimer1 said:


> So I'm kind of stuck between the MW07 Plus and the Sennheiser MTW2s. When I first received the MTW2s, I almost sent the back right away. I did not realize how much a good fit matters. My initial thought was these sound like crap . I happen to have an extra pair of the Sounfit CP360s laying around and decided to try them on the MTW2s. Wow, what a world of difference in should. Before they sounded hollow and without and depth. With the Spinfit tips they now sound amazing. To the point that I am now not sure which ones to keep. The only downside i have with the MTW2s is that I still need to work at it to get a good deal, but when I do they sound fantastic.


How do you like the MW07 Plus?  Did you have the first version?  If they sound anything like Gen 1, then I'll be happy.  I don't need them for ANC, rather the sound and better battery life than the original, which realistically only got 2 hours (most of the time) to 2.5 at the absolute max on lower volume.

I ended up, one again, returning the WF-SP800N and re-purchasing the XM3 for just $10 at 178.  At first, driver flex was non-existent on the WF-SP800N, but after a couple of days or so, it started.  Gah...couldn't deal with it for that price.  Never had any driver flex with the XM3 and don't with the new pair I just purchased (for the 3rd time?).  Do they have an AA for this addiction?


----------



## hifi80sman

webvan said:


> Yeah, fit is THE first thing to check for, without a good fit there is no good seal and no good sound  The MTW2 fit me great with the stock tips, like the Echobuds and the Bomaker 2 and naturally these are the TWEs I go for. I'll probably be sending back the MTW2s as it's a bit hard to justify the price...maybe if I only had one pair. How do you find their ANC compared to the MW07 Plus where it's been described as "weak sauce" ?


After owning the MTW Gen 1 and seeing the physical build is largely the same, it's also hard for me to justify the cost at $300.  Mind you, it has nothing to do with performance, just the physical cheesiness.  The case oozes with cheesy cheap plastic, while the earbuds use the same cheese and tend to scuff up fairly easy.  Come on Sennheiser, use glass-filled nylon with some metal accents, I mean you're charging $300 bones anyway!  /endrant

Anyone try the TaoTronics SoundLiberty 79?  They're on sale for $35.99 right now.


----------



## TooFrank

jasonb said:


> I have them and the Dekoni Bulletz. I like the Dekoni Bulletz more


Thanks - I can see that there are more Bulletz to chose from. Which do you recommend?


----------



## jant71

Seems they updated the Duet 50... https://www.amazon.com/Duet-Pro-Bluetooth-Sweatproof-Headphones/dp/B085VL4FLB?ref_=ast_sto_dp

Doesn't seem that much or enough though. More battery and an extra set of tips? Still the same $50 as the first one when it came out since they are $54.99 and you get 10% off. Doesn't look like they added volume control or ambient or their nice EQ settings. Not claiming the sound was improved which is the usual thing that is attempted when releasing a "PRO" version of something.


----------



## jasonb (Jun 23, 2020)

So I've come to the conclusion that the Spinfit CP360 in size medium are the way to go for me on the WF1000XM3. They fit perfectly and stay put, and sound really good. The Dekoni Bulletz in comparison sound less clear and more muddy. The Dekoni Bulletz isolate just a hair better, but if I need maximum isolation I can just turn the noise cancelling on. Nothing wrong with the Dekoni Bulletz, but I think it's just a foam thing. Foam for me always brings the top end down and brings the bass up. 

On another note, I was playing around with test tones and the EQ in the Sony Headphones app just to get a feel for what the EQ was doing, especially the 400hz EQ adjustment, and the "clear bass". It seems the 400hz EQ band really only messes with 200hz to 600hz, and then the "clear bass" only really messes with the stuff below 200hz. I've been using the 400hz band at -2 and the "clear bass" at 0. With these tips and the EQ the way I have it these sound like a more sparkly Harman IE tuning with less bass. I've always thought the Harman IE target had too much bass.


----------



## hifi80sman

jasonb said:


> So I've come to the conclusion that the Spinfit CP360 in size medium are the way to go for me on the WF1000XM3. They fit perfectly and stay put, and sound really good. The Dekoni Bulletz in comparison sound less clear and more muddy. The Dekoni Bulletz isolate just a hair better, but if I need maximum isolation I can just turn the noise cancelling on. Nothing wrong with the Dekoni Bulletz, but I think it's just a foam thing. Foam for me always brings the top end down and brings the bass up.
> 
> On another note, I was playing around with test tones and the EQ in the Sony Headphones app just to get a feel for what the EQ was doing, especially the 400hz EQ adjustment, and the "clear bass". It seems the 400hz EQ band really only messes with 200hz to 600hz, and then the "clear bass" only really messes with the stuff below 200hz. I've been using the 400hz band at -2 and the "clear bass" at 0. With these tips and the EQ the way I have it these sound like a more sparkly Harman IE tuning with less bass. I've always thought the Harman IE target had too much bass.


I have the SpinFit 360 as well, which does improve clarity at the expense of some extra warmth & thump.  They are definitely the way to go for a clean presentation.  I go back & forth depending on my mood.  And when I say back & forth, I mean a few times a day.

I'm actually listening to the XM3 right now with the stock L tips and some 80s rock (Signal & King Kobra).


----------



## jasonb

hifi80sman said:


> I have the SpinFit 360 as well, which does improve clarity at the expense of some extra warmth & thump.  They are definitely the way to go for a clean presentation.  I go back & forth depending on my mood.  And when I say back & forth, I mean a few times a day.
> 
> I'm actually listening to the XM3 right now with the stock L tips and some 80s rock (Signal & King Kobra).



I don't like lots of warmth. The 360's and the 400hz band at -2 I'm reducing a lot of warmth. I could probably do -1 instead though. I'm fine with the "clear bass" right at 0 though. The Galaxy Buds for example I thought had too much mid-bass for my tastes, but these are fine.


----------



## hifi80sman

jasonb said:


> I don't like lots of warmth. The 360's and the 400hz band at -2 I'm reducing a lot of warmth. I could probably do -1 instead though. I'm fine with the "clear bass" right at 0 though. The Galaxy Buds for example I thought had too much mid-bass for my tastes, but these are fine.


As long as you're happy, that's what counts!  If you knew how mine were EQd right now, you may very well spontaneously combust.


----------



## jasonb

hifi80sman said:


> As long as you're happy, that's what counts!  If you knew how mine were EQd right now, you may very well spontaneously combust.



Exactly! Whatever makes our ears happy.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

hifi80sman said:


> How do you like the MW07 Plus?  Did you have the first version?  If they sound anything like Gen 1, then I'll be happy.  I don't need them for ANC, rather the sound and better battery life than the original, which realistically only got 2 hours (most of the time) to 2.5 at the absolute max on lower volume.
> 
> I ended up, one again, returning the WF-SP800N and re-purchasing the XM3 for just $10 at 178.  At first, driver flex was non-existent on the WF-SP800N, but after a couple of days or so, it started.  Gah...couldn't deal with it for that price.  Never had any driver flex with the XM3 and don't with the new pair I just purchased (for the 3rd time?).  *Do they have an AA for this addiction*?



This forum was supposed to be AA, but it's more like Addict Enablers. Why do you think I AM HEADPHONE ADDICT? 
(thinking of Harry Potter, the anagram for I AM HEADPHONE ADDICT would be "DEEP ACID, DAMIT NOAH" or "DIM OAT HACIENDA"). 

I think I might have also mentioned driver flex (crinkly sound from driver during placement) with the WF-SP800N in my first few posts about them. But the drivers didn't bind up like they did for me on the FIIL T1X. So while I would hear the crinkle of the driver when repositioning them, which I needed to do often to keep them in, it didn't affect the sound. 



hifi80sman said:


> After owning the MTW Gen 1 and seeing the physical build is largely the same, it's also hard for me to justify the cost at $300.  Mind you, it has nothing to do with performance, just the physical cheesiness.  The case oozes with cheesy cheap plastic, while the earbuds use the same cheese and tend to scuff up fairly easy.  Come on Sennheiser, use glass-filled nylon with some metal accents, I mean you're charging $300 bones anyway!  /endrant
> 
> Anyone try the TaoTronics SoundLiberty 79?  They're on sale for $35.99 right now.



I haven't had complaints about the materials. But, with my owning 2 pairs of MTW I'm finding it hard to drop $300 on the MTW2 for just an improvement in battery life, and for maybe ANC that I don't need as much as transparency mode that I already have. For the battery life, I just keep them plugged into my MacBook Pro to stay charged, and use them around the house only, one paired with my MacBook Pro and the other paired with my iPhone.

$300 is a lot to spend when you already have a lot of choices, which is why I waited to drop money on the XM3 until I found them for 40% off at Best Buy, or until I used the 40% discount code for the MW07 Plus, putting both pairs at just under $180 each - it's almost like getting both for just 20% more than one MTW2.



jasonb said:


> So I've come to the conclusion that the Spinfit CP360 in size medium are the way to go for me on the WF1000XM3. They fit perfectly and stay put, and sound really good. The Dekoni Bulletz in comparison sound less clear and more muddy. The Dekoni Bulletz isolate just a hair better, but if I need maximum isolation I can just turn the noise cancelling on. Nothing wrong with the Dekoni Bulletz, but I think it's just a foam thing. Foam for me always brings the top end down and brings the bass up.
> 
> On another note, I was playing around with test tones and the EQ in the Sony Headphones app just to get a feel for what the EQ was doing, especially the 400hz EQ adjustment, and the "clear bass". It seems the 400hz EQ band really only messes with 200hz to 600hz, and then the "clear bass" only really messes with the stuff below 200hz. I've been using the 400hz band at -2 and the "clear bass" at 0. With these tips and the EQ the way I have it these sound like a more sparkly Harman IE tuning with less bass. I've always thought the Harman IE target had too much bass.



The included silicon tips are not that great for me either. It's weird that with almost everything else I need medium tips, but the XM3 don't go in deep enough to seal with medium tips, so I have to use large tip to grab the outer part of my ear canal just before the canal narrows farther inside.

I tried the SpinFit CP-100L tips (large yellow) and they work only slightly better than the stock tips. I'm currently using the large luakesa tips that I posted about from Amazon, which I found also worked a little better with the T1X. Somehow, the factory tips with the MTW, GBuds+ and Jabra 75t all work well for me. but the tips with the AirPods Pro and WF-1000XM3 don't stay in my ears well regardless of size.

I have ordered the SpinFit CP360 "Large/Medium" (blue and green) which are coming Friday so I can see how that works. The large foam XM3 tips were not bad, but not perfect; so I also have some Comply's foam in medium and large that I haven't opened yet but plan to try.


----------



## Sam L

jasonb said:


> So I've come to the conclusion that the Spinfit CP360 in size medium are the way to go for me on the WF1000XM3. They fit perfectly and stay put, and sound really good. The Dekoni Bulletz in comparison sound less clear and more muddy. The Dekoni Bulletz isolate just a hair better, but if I need maximum isolation I can just turn the noise cancelling on. Nothing wrong with the Dekoni Bulletz, but I think it's just a foam thing. Foam for me always brings the top end down and brings the bass up.
> 
> On another note, I was playing around with test tones and the EQ in the Sony Headphones app just to get a feel for what the EQ was doing, especially the 400hz EQ adjustment, and the "clear bass". It seems the 400hz EQ band really only messes with 200hz to 600hz, and then the "clear bass" only really messes with the stuff below 200hz. I've been using the 400hz band at -2 and the "clear bass" at 0. With these tips and the EQ the way I have it these sound like a more sparkly Harman IE tuning with less bass. I've always thought the Harman IE target had too much bass.


Here are my settings to achieve Harman target on my LG v60.




I have to re-measure and readjust things for my pixel 4xl. sounds very different.  Haven't gotten around to figuring out the settings for the pixel


----------



## C_Lindbergh (Jun 23, 2020)

Here is a bit more info about Klipsch upcoming "smart" True wireless T10, apperently the upcoming (and prob much cheaper) T5 Anc will also have some of those smart features.


https://www.earmicro.com/

On paper most of these features sounds really interesting, but we will see how they turn out in practice.


----------



## hifi80sman

HeadphoneAddict said:


> $300 is a lot to spend when you already have a lot of choices, which is why I waited to drop money on the XM3 until I found them for 40% off at Best Buy, or until I used the 40% discount code for the MW07 Plus, putting both pairs at just under $180 each - it's almost like getting both for just 20% more than one MTW2.


That's a great point.  I recently re-acquired the XM3 and my MW07 Plus arrives tomorrow, all for around the price of the MTW2, which yes, is basically ANC, better battery with no case drain, and slightly improved sound (from what I gather via sound comparisons on YouTube).  If I were a 1 earbud kind of guy, yeah, maybe I'd think about the MTW2, but the materials, even technically acceptable, are just a turn off for me.  Thankfully, I'm not a 1 earbud kind of guy.  I'm basically an earbud/headphone polygamist.


----------



## jasonb (Jun 23, 2020)

Sam L said:


> Here are my settings to achieve Harman target on my LG v60.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



From graphs I've seen compared to the Harman target there is no reason to bring 1k down at all, let alone -7. 



It looks like if we want a more Harman tuning we need to reduce the 150 - 500hz area by a bit, increase the bass below 60hz, bring up the 3-7k area up a little. 

What I've done is -2 at 400hz which should help the 200-600hz region, then I do +2 at 2.5k, and +1 at 6.5k and +1 at 15k. According to that graph this should make it pretty close to Harman but with less bass which is what I like.


----------



## hifi80sman

jasonb said:


> What I've done is -2 at 400hz which should help the 200-600hz region, then I do +2 at 2.5k, and +1 at 6.5k and +1 at 15k. According to that graph this should make it pretty close to Harman but with less bass which is what I like.


That's actually really close to what I have...except for the +8 Clear BASS.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

hifi80sman said:


> That's actually really close to what I have...except for the +8 Clear BASS.



For the WF-1000XM3 I have set it for +6 clear bass, everything else flat.


----------



## chinmie

HeadphoneAddict said:


> For the WF-1000XM3 I have set it for +6 clear bass, everything else flat.



I'm the opposite, -3 on the clear bass, everything else flat


----------



## VICosPhi

TYATYA said:


> I just want Technic AZ70W to be small as E8v3.
> Best in sound quality but not Ambient mode or touch gesture



How are the Technics in sound quality when compared to Sennheiser Momentum Wireless 2? Technics have the 10mm Graphene plated driver vs Sennheiser's 7mm driver so wondering if I should wait for Technics or just get the MW2.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

chinmie said:


> I'm the opposite, -3 on the clear bass, everything else flat



I don't listen at loud volumes, so that I can hear my family calling out to me when they want me. Also, because of my tinnitus. Since I need to be able to hear the bass with my iPhone at 25-30% on the volume control, the XM3 clearbass helps me out a lot. 

However, I just tested it, and if I listen at above 50% volume then it's better with clear bass at 0. I can see turning down bass on some IEM or volumes. With my Jabra 75t I have the bass turned half-way down for "Commute", where I turn the bass and treble down while bumping the lower treble and lower mids, to make them more forgiving but more engaging (or more flat IRL). 




I leave Jabra EQ totally flat for "Focus" because flat is like having a "loudness" control turned on with any other earbud. Flat on the Jabra is closer to ClearBass at +10 for the XM3.


----------



## chinmie

HeadphoneAddict said:


> I don't listen at loud volumes, so that I can hear my family calling out to me when they want me. Also, because of my tinnitus. Since I need to be able to hear the bass with my iPhone at 25-30% on the volume control, the XM3 clearbass helps me out a lot.
> 
> However, I just tested it, and if I listen at above 50% volume then it's better with clear bass at 0. I can see turning down bass on some IEM or volumes. With my Jabra 75t I have the bass turned half-way down for "Commute", where I turn the bass and treble down while bumping the lower treble and lower mids, to make them more forgiving but more engaging (or more flat IRL).
> 
> ...



maybe it's just personal preference and old habit. I'm so used to work and mix on small monitor speakers in low volume (and really long sessions) that makes me having just a bit of bass is enough for me. 
that's not to say i don't enjoy a good subbass rumble though, especially for headphones /IEMs that can "massage" the ears with the rumble without being overwhelming the other frequencies in volume. 
and that's why i like the XM3... it always have a good kick on the bass that can be felt, even with the clear bass set low. 

i also have mild ringing in my ears, a gift from band playing in my younger years. nowadays high volumes and sudden spikes in volume hurts my ears. but i always can pick up tiny noise details even better than my son, so i generally listen in low to moderate volume. 
i can't even go to a concert or live performance without using earplugs now


----------



## jasonb

I usually listen to the XM3 at 24 to 36%, so pretty quiet as well.


----------



## hmscott (Jun 29, 2020)

hmscott said:


> That's great news!  Thanks for posting your initial reaction; how are they doing now after breaking in over the last 10 days?
> 
> Sorry I didn't see your reply sooner, I'm very happy to see you like them.
> 
> ...


The two set's of KZ S2's (with foam tips) were delivered yesterday, and so far they are good.

I had an initial issue with dropout's even close by bound to my PC, but resetting the pair of KZ S2's I was using - touch both IEM's for 8 seconds to reset - and rebinding again with the PC solved that issue and I was able to listen for about 3.5 hours solid before getting the low battery warning.

The low latency mode works, but even without that fast response mode - does it take more power? - the normal response time is adequate for watching video.

So far so good.  

See that "blue tape" on the left most earpiece, remove that - it covers the charging contacts to protect in transit.  Ask me how I know.


----------



## mikp

chinmie said:


> https://www.notebookcheck.net/FCC-c...pport-ahead-of-imminent-release.477127.0.html
> 
> not really TWS news, but i think it confirms my findings that the current MTK/airoha chip has superior performance and user experience than the Qualcomm.
> 
> also maybe because they just don't want to bother paying Qualcomm anymore?



or mtk is cheaper so more profit. Anyways I recently got the xm3 cheap after selling the 1st gen 1000x.  xm4 has no aptx hd, so sbc only in win 10.


----------



## TYATYA

VICosPhi said:


> How are the Technics in sound quality when compared to Sennheiser Momentum Wireless 2? Technics have the 10mm Graphene plated driver vs Sennheiser's 7mm driver so wondering if I should wait for Technics or just get the MW2.



I can not compare to mtw2 bcs I dont have it.
Az70w reproduce a really huge, open soundstage! Imagine is very good. It goes so low to 25Hz (close to 22Hz on E8 v3). Deep bass mostly same as E8v3 but much more control and bass tight. 
Lack of sub but over pumping bass of mtw1 makes me no more interest in Senn's


----------



## chinmie

really liking this mod result on the Pamu using some earbud foams and the GGMM T1 tips. thr treble is not grating anymore, but still detailed and crisp. an added bonus is the slightly loose T1 tips can grip the nozzle better so it won't fall off easier.


----------



## chinmie

nice review comparing the QCY T5S, T5 Pro, and the T9S. so the Pro is confirmed to have a BA driver
it's in korean, but has a good english subtitle


----------



## Ynot1 (Jun 24, 2020)

https://tranya.us3.list-manage.com/...083146cbc2e9a286fc&id=fb09c37cc1&e=b2041f8d04

New.


----------



## Mouseman

Ynot1 said:


> https://tranya.us3.list-manage.com/...083146cbc2e9a286fc&id=fb09c37cc1&e=b2041f8d04
> 
> Could be interesting.


I got that email, too. I'm trying to figure out why the MSRP is so high, and what major differences there are from the rest of the line.


----------



## kl884347

Mouseman said:


> I got that email, too. I'm trying to figure out why the MSRP is so high, and what major differences there are from the rest of the line.


If you go to the main page, a popup showed up for me with a Spin and Win.  I got a 50% off coupon I am not going to use (not sure if it is individual use or not):

SPINGMXDTHCD 

It worked on the T10


----------



## Uzirox

I got a 25$ gift card:  CARDVIVAWAGF


----------



## TooFrank

HeadphoneAddict said:


> I have ordered the SpinFit CP360 "Large/Medium" (blue and green) which are coming Friday so I can see how that works. The large foam XM3 tips were not bad, but not perfect; so I also have some Comply's foam in medium and large that I haven't opened yet but plan to try.


Thanks - happy with the comply true grip Pro, but just ordered the spinfit cp360


----------



## go0gle

Just got new firmware for the lp2, not sure if old news


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

SERIOUSLY?!?

Why does Master and Dynamic MW07 Plus, a $300 earphone set, only run SBC and AptX and NO AAC?

I have an iPhone and I'm debating sending this back without even opening it, because of lack of AAC support. CHANGE MY MIND.


----------



## Bytor123

CHANGE MY MIND. - you won't be able to tell the difference between SBC and AAC?


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Bytor123 said:


> CHANGE MY MIND. - you won't be able to tell the difference between SBC and AAC?


Isn't it one more step for conversion with an iPhone that runs audio natively in AAC?


----------



## Bytor123

HeadphoneAddict said:


> Isn't it one more step for conversion with an iPhone that runs audio natively in AAC?


It could be - but can _you_ tell the difference? I'm not being an arse; I'm honestly not sure that _I_ could tell the difference. But I'm 56. So my hearing might be...compromised.


----------



## voicemaster

HeadphoneAddict said:


> Isn't it one more step for conversion with an iPhone that runs audio natively in AAC?


Let them bionic chip work!!


----------



## gooeyrich

Do we know of any technologies in development which could replace Bluetooth?

Bluetooth could never get us to end game tier sound quality right?


----------



## jant71

Who wants a pair of these...


----------



## hifi80sman

HeadphoneAddict said:


> Isn't it one more step for conversion with an iPhone that runs audio natively in AAC?


So, the MH40 Wireless does not advertise AAC, however, it actually supports it.  I tested it by running it via Android/Developer Options (LG G6).  Gives me hope that the MW07 Plus does as well.

My pair got delayed, so it won't be arriving until tomorrow.  GAH!


----------



## TheLionelHutz

Mouseman said:


> I got that email, too. I'm trying to figure out why the MSRP is so high, and what major differences there are from the rest of the line.


Looks like principally the 12mm driver, Qi charging, and IPX7, at least over the Rimor.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

hifi80sman said:


> So, the MH40 Wireless does not advertise AAC, however, it actually supports it.  I tested it by running it via Android/Developer Options (LG G6).  Gives me hope that the MW07 Plus does as well.
> 
> My pair got delayed, so it won't be arriving until tomorrow.  GAH!



I must have received your pair, because last night tracking told me I'd get mine on Thursday 😹


----------



## hifi80sman

HeadphoneAddict said:


> I must have received your pair, because last night tracking told me I'd get mine on Thursday 😹


Yeah, some driver probably got lazy and just left their packages sitting there and "claimed" the barcode was "unreadable".  Um, replaced twice?  Yeah, some idiot is just flat out lazy.


----------



## jasonb

gooeyrich said:


> Do we know of any technologies in development which could replace Bluetooth?
> 
> Bluetooth could never get us to end game tier sound quality right?



LDAC is a great step towards end game quality. I doubt most people could tell the difference between wired and LDAC at the 990 bit rate.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

While I have not done a side by side comparison yet, the sound signature of the *Master & Dynamic MW07 Plus reminds me a lot of the Nuarl N6 Pro but with an added transparency mode and ANC*. Just like with the N6P, I think that the MW07+ treble will smooth out a little with a few hours of burn-in.

The MW07+ are also more comfortable than my N6 Pro that fit in my ear canals tighter and press on my ear canals more. However, the N6 Pro seem to have more passive isolation than most others, likely due to the tighter fit. 

I did have to move up to the large MW07+ tips (XS, SM, MED, LG, XL are provided) to get some bass, but I have not changed the wings from the default ones yet, nor have I tried the XL tips which might increase passive isolation (or just be too big). It seems with any IEM that cannot go deep into my ear canal due to a short nozzle that I have to go much larger on the tips - large is not big enough, but fortunately I can dig out the box and try the XL tips.

*That is my biggest job right now - getting a good seal.* Fortunately they sound nice without a perfect seal, and they sound better with more bass when using large tips than the medium tips that came installed from the factory. However, the seal is enough to be quieter in a normal room with ANC, but it's not a good enough ear canal seal to block a fan or running water.

Transparency mode is not bad, with less hiss than Jabra 75t and closer to full range pass through like the XM3, MTW or APP. The Jabra and the Gbuds+ tends to only pass the higher frequencies (and it's selectable with the XM3). My seal right now is poor enough that the ambient mode is only slightly louder than with it off.

With Tidal on iPhone (SBC) vs Tidal on MacBook with AptX, I think that I can imagine a very slight improvement in detail but it really is very minimal if it's real at all. I went into my MacBook Bluetooth Explorer tool (Xcode tools), and I changed it to not force AptX and to use AAC if available, and the MW07+ connected with SBC, so AAC was definitely not available on the MW07+. I thought that SBC was slightly grainier in the treble, but with slightly less air or ambience, although I couldn't do fast A-B switching to be sure.

So, I guess I'm off to "tip roll" now and get that seal improved.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict (Jun 24, 2020)

SpinFit CP100-L (yellow) definitely work better for isolation and ANC than the Lg tips that came with the MW07+, but it's still not as quiet passively or actively as XM3 or APP. So, off to try more tips.

Also, the Lg luakesa tips from Amazon that work well with my XM3 and T1X don't work as well as the Lg tips that came with the MW07+. So, Imma grab the MW07+ box and fish out the XL tips.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

HeadphoneAddict said:


> SpinFit CP100-L (yellow) definitely work better for isolation and ANC than the Lg tips that came with the MW07+, but it's still not as quiet passively or actively as XM3 or APP. So, off to try more tips.
> 
> Also, the Lg luakesa tips from Amazon that work well with my XM3 and T1X don't work as well as the Lg tips that came with the MW07+. So, Imma grab the MW07+ box and fish out the XL tips.



Well, the MW07+ stock XL tips with the Lg wings work best for me, but now they're not quite as comfortable because the fit is tighter and they touch new parts of my ear more tightly. With a good seal the bass is more plentiful and very deep, but it's very tight and controlled. The passive isolation is much better than before, as is ANC. However, ANC is still not nearly as good as on the XM3 or APP - so fan or running water noise makes it through and just at a reduced level. I don't feel like I'm in the vacuum of space with these using ANC.

UNLIKE THE XM3, when I'm listening with my Macbook and I want to switch over to my iPhone, I cannot just connect with the iPhone in BT settings unless I first go to the MacBook BT settings first and disconnect from there. Disconnecting first on the Mac always worked to let me connect with the iPhone. 

I wanted to find a way to switch to iPhone without touching the MacBook., so I tried a few things. I tried a few times to connect to the iPhone without first going to the MacBook to manually disconnect, and I even tried to connect to the -L since Macbook was connected to the -R. That didn't force the Mac to disconnect remotely. 

If I put the buds in the case to disconnect from the Mac, when I took them out of the case they would always re-connect to the MacBook immediately - and faster than I could click on connect with the iPhone. So, I put them back in the case again and waited for them to disconnect from the Macbook, then went to iPhone BT settings to click on connect before I took them out, and then I took them out of the case. They connected to the iPhone instead of the MacBook!

I decided to try again. I put the buds back in the case while YouTube was playing on the iPhone, and YouTube paused without me touching the iPhone. I went to BT settings on Macbook and told it to connect to the "M&D MW07 Plus R", and then I took them out of the case and put them in my ears really fast and they connected to the MacBook and not the iPhone. I hit play in Tidal for Mac and got music in both ears. So, without touching the device that was previously connected I was able to switch devices, but only if I was able to get them out of the case and in my ears fast enough, before the second device gave up trying to find them.

To test repeatability I put them back in the case while Tidal for Mac was playing, and Tidal paused. I went to BT settings on the iPhone and told it to connect to the "M&D MW07 Plus R", took them out of the case quickly and put them in my ears, and it connected to the iPhone without having to touch the Mac and tell it to disconnect. If I wasn't fast enough, the iPhone would give up trying to connect as the Mac would reconnect.

*The trick to switching from one device to another without touching the previous device used, is to put them in the case and let them disconnect, then have the new device trying to connect first, before quickly removing them from the case and shoving them into your ears.*


----------



## hifi80sman

These mothers look interesting.  I need a pair for the pool in Hawaii.  Anyone try them yet?
https://www.amazon.com/Jabees-Waterproof-Cancelling-Microphones-Qi-Enabled/dp/B07Z8QSXX3/


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

At this point I am enjoying the Master & Dynamic MW07 Plus a little better than my NUARL N6 Pro.

They’re just more engaging and make the N6P feel a little too neutral or bland at times - mostly when doing quick AB switching. If I start out with the N6P I don’t know that I’m missing anything until I switch to the MW07 Plus. But then I also hear some upper midrange coloration in the N6P when I go back and forth, and the MW07+ have stronger bass. 

I’m off to bed, but I’ll continue to burn these in over the next few days and do a few more comparisons. I know they’re in a different league from the GBuds+ which have lousy EQ options, but it’s possible to EQ the Jabra 75t and XM3 to get closer to these.


----------



## Anden

Thanks @HeadphoneAddict for putting in this time testing the MW07 Plus and sharing it with us. 

I live in Switzerland and have been trying to check all resellers of Master & Dyanmics but I can't find anyone in Switzerland, Germany or any other surrounding country that sells the MW07 Plus. 
Does anyone know of a store in Switzerland, Germany, Denmark or Sweden that sells MW07 Plus?(I will drive through these countries soon)


----------



## TheLionelHutz

hifi80sman said:


> These mothers look interesting.  I need a pair for the pool in Hawaii.  Anyone try them yet?
> https://www.amazon.com/Jabees-Waterproof-Cancelling-Microphones-Qi-Enabled/dp/B07Z8QSXX3/


I tried the first Firefly and absolutely hated them. The fit was awful, the button was stiff and didn't work more than half the time, and the mids were totally blown out. Upside down V signature. This was before I had an effective EQ solution so I don't know if they're tamable, but I also was fairly disappointed and sent them back almost immediately. These look a little more interesting and like they would at least fit better, but $100 for pool buds without aptX seems a bit steep.


----------



## McCol

Lost my Senn MTW2 chaerging case while out cycling this morning, bloody annoyed.  £90 for a new case that Sennheiser's EU site is 'coming soon'.  

All my own fault!


----------



## Bobbetybob

chinmie said:


> nice review comparing the QCY T5S, T5 Pro, and the T9S. so the Pro is confirmed to have a BA driver
> it's in korean, but has a good english subtitle



Glad I cancelled my order for the Pro's back when they first came out then! I hope we don't see a trend of the Chinese manufacturers starting to focus more on adding gimmicky selling points like wireless charging/ANC/in ear detection/BA drivers that don't work very well rather than just focusing on improving sound, fit and portability. I don't want the budget TWS market to end up like the budget over ear market that just focuses on ANC and ignores the fact the sound quality is trash.


----------



## axhng (Jun 25, 2020)

just got these. first impressions... it's like creative outlier air, but at half the price and with touch controls? (but no volume controls) the shape and fit of the earbuds are very very similar to the outlier just smaller (outlier still has a more stable fit for my ears). it has similar up to 10hr battery life rating, same qcc3020 chipset too. Case is plastic and has a more traditional flip open case (with spring loaded mechanism which shows battery percentage when opened), but it's smaller and more pocketable. USB-C charging too. the plastic feels to be slightly better in quality compared to something like the haylou gt1 too.

sound wise it's pretty decent too. pretty inoffensive V-shaped sound. No harsh treble and upper mids isn't too shouty. lower mids can sound a bit recessed though, and the elevated bass probably doesn't help. Not to say it's bloated though. Bass still sounds tight and has a nice punch without overdoing it.Overall a smooth and maybe slightly warm sound. I like it more than the Outlier Air/Gold which can be a bit hot in the treble for me, and maybe a bit too bassy. This is not fatiguing to listen to and i think will work really well at higher volume too when jogging for example. Seems pretty decent for the price.


----------



## JOSELICHI

Anden said:


> Thanks @HeadphoneAddict for putting in this time testing the MW07 Plus and sharing it with us.
> 
> I live in Switzerland and have been trying to check all resellers of Master & Dyanmics but I can't find anyone in Switzerland, Germany or any other surrounding country that sells the MW07 Plus.
> Does anyone know of a store in Switzerland, Germany, Denmark or Sweden that sells MW07 Plus?(I will drive through these countries soon)


You can try here.

https://www.masterdynamic.eu/

I bought them with PARTNER40. 178 Euros. Im from Spain


----------



## Anden

JOSELICHI said:


> You can try here.
> 
> https://www.masterdynamic.eu/
> 
> I bought them with PARTNER40. 178 Euros. Im from Spain


Thank you for your reply. 
I was hoping to be able to purchase them in a physical store in central europe, but maybe I should give up and order them from the Master & Dynamics site.
How long did it take for you to receive them after you put in the order?


----------



## McCol

JOSELICHI said:


> You can try here.
> 
> https://www.masterdynamic.eu/
> 
> I bought them with PARTNER40. 178 Euros. Im from Spain



Thanks for that 
Just ordered from UK site and code works a treat. £167 with free shipping.


----------



## chinmie

axhng said:


> just got these. first impressions... it's like creative outlier air, but at half the price and with touch controls? (but no volume controls) the shape and fit of the earbuds are very very similar to the outlier just smaller (outlier still has a more stable fit for my ears). it has similar up to 10hr battery life rating, same qcc3020 chipset too. Case is plastic and has a more traditional flip open case (with spring loaded mechanism which shows battery percentage when opened), but it's smaller and more pocketable. USB-C charging too. the plastic feels to be slightly better in quality compared to something like the haylou gt1 too.
> 
> sound wise it's pretty decent too. pretty inoffensive V-shaped sound. No harsh treble and upper mids isn't too shouty. lower mids can sound a bit recessed though, and the elevated bass probably doesn't help. Not to say it's bloated though, it's not. Bass still sounds tight and has a nice punch without overdoing it.Overall a smooth and maybe slightly warm sound. I like it more than the Outlier Air/Gold which can be a bit hot in the treble for me, and maybe a bit too bassy. This is not fatiguing to listen to and i think will work really well at higher volume too when jogging for example. Seems pretty decent for the price.



how's the mic call quality sounds?


----------



## axhng

chinmie said:


> how's the mic call quality sounds?



not too bad i think. feels like CVC in general seems to work better than realtek's noise reduction stuff. mic quality better than something like the KZ Z1 for sure. human voices sounds a bit more natural and less "compressed" sounding.


----------



## JOSELICHI

Anden said:


> Thank you for your reply.
> I was hoping to be able to purchase them in a physical store in central europe, but maybe I should give up and order them from the Master & Dynamics site.
> How long did it take for you to receive them after you put in the order?


I bought this monday. I will receive them 30 June. If you can apply discount you dont wait


----------



## JOSELICHI

McCol said:


> Thanks for that
> Just ordered from UK site and code works a treat. £167 with free shipping.


Its a big deal!


----------



## JOSELICHI

JOSELICHI said:


> I bought this monday. I will receive them 30 June. If you can apply discount you dont wait


And free shipping!


----------



## Anden

JOSELICHI said:


> I bought this monday. I will receive them 30 June. If you can apply discount you dont wait


I took your advice and ordered them now . I bought the Leica collaboration edition of the MW07 Plus. The discount worked! So thank you again, you're a real trooper.


----------



## bubsdaddy

I bought a pair of Powerbeats Pros and I'm still having trouble getting any kind of decent seal. So far, my best option has been the largest tips and they kind of sit on the outside of my ear canal and seal OK until I run - and then the seal breaks and they sound like a $5 tinny set. I would appreciate any suggestions. Also, what is the largest 3rd party tip anyone has ever seen that would be available to purchase on Amazon?


----------



## webvan

I'm not surprised, I got some Powerbeat Pro clones (the GGMM T1 I think) and there was no way I could get any kind of seal, stock tips, complys, etc...terrible design for my ears !

Wow that deal on MW07 Plus is crazy, what colors are you guys getting ? Tortoise is tempting 

Need to go back to the recent reviews as I'm sorely tempted since I've decided to send back the MTW2 that I can't justify for 299€ with my existing setup (Amazon EchoBuds that provide the best passive+ANR isolation in class to my ears, LP2 Pro for "quality" listening, Bomaker 2, X12, etc.... I did see a review yesterday on YT (might have been linked from here) where I was a bit alarmed by the fact that isolation was said to be pretty poor compared to the MW07 GO, let's see...here it is


----------



## McCol

webvan said:


> I'm not surprised, I got some Powerbeat Pro clones (the GGMM T1 I think) and there was no way I could get any kind of seal, stock tips, complys, etc...terrible design for my ears !
> 
> Wow that deal on MW07 Plus is crazy, what colors are you guys getting ? Tortoise is tempting
> 
> Need to go back to the recent reviews as I'm sorely tempted since I've decided to send back the MTW2 that I can't justify for 299€ with my existing setup (Amazon EchoBuds that provide the best passive+ANR isolation in class to my ears, LP2 Pro for "quality" listening, Bomaker 2, X12, etc.... I did see a review yesterday on YT (might have been linked from here) where I was a bit alarmed by the fact that isolation was said to be pretty poor compared to the MW07 GO, let's see...here it is




I went with one of the black models but have emailed to see if I can change it to the Lecia edition!!


----------



## webvan

I've now seen that the GO can be had for 120€...might be more reasonable, given that Ambient and ANC are apparently "super weak sauce" :


----------



## Anden

webvan said:


> Wow that deal on MW07 Plus is crazy, what colors are you guys getting ? Tortoise is tempting



I picked the Leica collaboration of MW07 Plus. I thought it was really sweet.
https://www.masterdynamic.eu/pages/master-dynamic-leica-0_95-collaboration


----------



## myltz400 (Jun 25, 2020)

If this has been mentioned before sorry...

While listening to your headphones uninstall the wavelet app.   Just did this by mistake and it brought back soundstage, highs and bass!  Funny thing is that I had everything in the app set to off.

I guess it was clashing or interfering with the built in DSP of my phone or earphones?  I have a Galaxy S10 and Airpod Pros.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Anden said:


> Thank you for your reply.
> I was hoping to be able to purchase them in a physical store in central europe, but maybe I should give up and order them from the Master & Dynamics site.
> How long did it take for you to receive them after you put in the order?


Here in the USA I ordered on Sunday night and received them on Wednesday (yesterday).


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

bubsdaddy said:


> I bought a pair of Powerbeats Pros and I'm still having trouble getting any kind of decent seal. So far, my best option has been the largest tips and they kind of sit on the outside of my ear canal and seal OK until I run - and then the seal breaks and they sound like a $5 tinny set. I would appreciate any suggestions. Also, what is the largest 3rd party tip anyone has ever seen that would be available to purchase on Amazon?



I have never been able to get a seal with the Powerbeats Pro, due to the very short nozzle. But with them just resting against my ear canals opening I get decent bass. I like that I can hear what's going on around me when I'm cycling, without worrying about losing them at 20mph because of the ear hooks keeping them on. So, I never tried larger tips or foam tips, but I would recommend trying to find some foam tips that might compress and then expand and grab your ear canal.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

webvan said:


> I'm not surprised, I got some Powerbeat Pro clones (the GGMM T1 I think) and there was no way I could get any kind of seal, stock tips, complys, etc...terrible design for my ears !
> 
> Wow that deal on MW07 Plus is crazy, what colors are you guys getting ? Tortoise is tempting
> 
> Need to go back to the recent reviews as I'm sorely tempted since I've decided to send back the MTW2 that I can't justify for 299€ with my existing setup (Amazon EchoBuds that provide the best passive+ANR isolation in class to my ears, LP2 Pro for "quality" listening, Bomaker 2, X12, etc.... I did see a review yesterday on YT (might have been linked from here) where I was a bit alarmed by the fact that isolation was said to be pretty poor compared to the MW07 GO, let's see...here it is




I just got the MW07 Plus in black quartz yesterday and posted some impressions last night in a few separate posts. I struggled over the tortoise shell or jade for a while, but decided to get black that don't stand out too much. But, I hope I don't regret not getting the tortoise shell.

I usually always need medium tips with any IEM that has a long nozzle and goes in deep. With short nozzles I have to use larger tips to seal in my outer ear canal. So, until I tried the XL tips with LG wings I didn't get good passive isolation, but once I did that the isolation is now decent as is ANC. Although not as much as the APP or XM3 it's not bad, and the sound quality makes up for it.

I keep listening to them vs others with Halsey "Finally // Beautiful Stranger" which has a haunting reverb in a soulful ballad vibe. The treble is very crisp and detailed, although slightly boosted around 6K but not quite sibilant - my N6P had this treble quality that improved with 8-24 hours of playing music. Despite that, cymbals and snare drums sound better than many of my other IEM. The midrange is more transparent and uncolored than my N6P, and the bass is stronger and tight. It's got a mild V-shaped response but it's not out of control like the Jabra 75T (where I needed to EQ down the deep bass and high treble while boosting the low mids and low treble).

I'm assuming that the treble will smooth out with play-time/burn-in, but even if not I can live with it, as the treble on my GBuds+ is much more troublesome. My wish list would be an iPhone app that could allow doing EQ from the app, but since you can control all the functions with the one button on the right and the two on the left, the app doesn't need to control that (single, double and triple click plus press-hold) and the volume up/down buttons on the left (click up or down for volume, press-hold up or down for ambient or ANC). I'm not sure why Tidal doesn't have built-in EQ, and the iPhone's only EQ is for the Apple Music app.

I'm happy with the MW07+ for the 40% off PARTNER40 code, but I'm not sure that I'd be happy at the full $299 price. All these True Wireless for under $200 have been distracting me from the full price MTW2, which may or may not be an improvement to my 2 sets of MTW1.


----------



## hifi80sman

HeadphoneAddict said:


> I just got the MW07 Plus in black quartz yesterday and posted some impressions last night in a few separate posts. I struggled over the tortoise shell or jade for a while, but decided to get black that don't stand out too much. But, I hope I don't regret not getting the tortoise shell.
> 
> I usually always need medium tips with any IEM that has a long nozzle and goes in deep. With short nozzles I have to use larger tips to seal in my outer ear canal. So, until I tried the XL tips with LG wings I didn't get good passive isolation, but once I did that the isolation is now decent as is ANC. Although not as much as the APP or XM3 it's not bad, and the sound quality makes up for it.
> 
> ...


FINALLY got mine today, and aside from the lack of AAC (I was not able to connect via AAC either), I like them quite a bit.  Especially for the $179 price at 40% off.  I agree that the $299 price would be a bit hard to swallow, not because of the price itself, but value/performance.  It's the same reason that I've been kept from the MTW2.  Cheesy plastic all over the place.  If M&D can sell me a nice build, stainless case, and earbuds with an acetate body for $179, Sennheiser can do better with the materials.

Even over SBC on my iPhone, the MW07 Plus sound really good.  A smidgen boosted in the treble for music with lots of cymbal crashes, but still shy of "hot" or "piercing".


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Anden said:


> I took your advice and ordered them now . I bought the Leica collaboration edition of the MW07 Plus. The discount worked! So thank you again, you're a real trooper.



I wanted a color and material that would be less likely to show scratches over time, and the Leica edition looked like it was less durable dull plastic than the acrylic or whatever they use for the other colors.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

hifi80sman said:


> FINALLY got mine today, and aside from the lack of AAC (I was not able to connect via AAC either), I like them quite a bit.  Especially for the $179 price at 40% off.  I agree that the $299 price would be a bit hard to swallow, not because of the price itself, but value/performance.  It's the same reason that I've been kept from the MTW2.  Cheesy plastic all over the place.  If M&D can sell me a nice build, stainless case, and earbuds with an acetate body for $179, Sennheiser can do better with the materials.
> 
> Even over SBC on my iPhone, the MW07 Plus sound really good.  A smidgen boosted in the treble for music with lots of cymbal crashes, but still shy of "hot" or "piercing".



Exactly!


----------



## assassin10000

hifi80sman said:


> These mothers look interesting.  I need a pair for the pool in Hawaii.  Anyone try them yet?
> https://www.amazon.com/Jabees-Waterproof-Cancelling-Microphones-Qi-Enabled/dp/B07Z8QSXX3/



Air-XR. Good sound and Ipx7. I've showered and submerged mine with no issues.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Haven't listened to my MTW in a week, and picked up the set that's always paired and plugged into USB on my MacBook today for a listen.

While the treble is certainly recessed rather than boosted, I still enjoy these. They still sound crisp and detailed, but they do push the string guitars and cymbals further into the background than is needed. They are spacious and transparent in the mids, with a good bass foundation, and remind me of a well amp'd Sennheiser HD-650 but without the bass bleeding into the lower mids like the HD-650. But, like the HD-650, they present some of that "veil" that people complain about.

This makes them very forgiving of bad recordings, and yet they can be easily EQ'd to bring out the highs and details. On my MacBook I just leave the SoundSource app's global system EQ for "treble booster", which gives a small nudge to the highs in every app that plays audio on the Mac. 

While I sometimes wish that we had a good system-wide EQ for iPhone, one that would offer clean and mild EQ in every app that plays audio, the Sennheiser app for iPhone does a good job of letting us push the treble up just a bit for everything that we listen to with the MTW.


----------



## clerkpalmer (Jun 25, 2020)

So, my Sony 800n are not good for biking.  Too much wind noise which is a bummer but not surprising.  Any recommendations for a cheapish TWS set that can take some sweat but still sound good.  Looking at the new Bowmaker versus the Fiil.  Is the T1X worth double the price of the Sifi II?  Any other recommendations?  Riding on trails so isolation is preferred to letting in ambient sound.


----------



## clerkpalmer

hifi80sman said:


> FINALLY got mine today, and aside from the lack of AAC (I was not able to connect via AAC either), I like them quite a bit.  Especially for the $179 price at 40% off.  I agree that the $299 price would be a bit hard to swallow, not because of the price itself, but value/performance.  It's the same reason that I've been kept from the MTW2.  Cheesy plastic all over the place.  If M&D can sell me a nice build, stainless case, and earbuds with an acetate body for $179, Sennheiser can do better with the materials.
> 
> Even over SBC on my iPhone, the MW07 Plus sound really good.  A smidgen boosted in the treble for music with lots of cymbal crashes, but still shy of "hot" or "piercing".


Steal for that price.  Not sure what happened to my ears but I started having fit problems with them - both the Go and the MW07.  So I had to move on.  Big wing kept slipping out. Small wing wouldn't stay put.


----------



## webvan (Jun 25, 2020)

clerkpalmer said:


> So, my Sony 800n are not good for biking.  Too much wind noise which is a bummer but not surprising.  Any recommendations for a cheapish TWS set that can take some sweat but still sound good.  Looking at the new Bowmaker versus the Fiil.  Is the T1X worth double the price of the Sifi II?  Any other recommendations?  Riding on trails so isolation is preferred to letting in ambient sound.



You still get wind noise if you turn off ANC ? I suppose the fact that they stick out doesn't help...although the MTW2 don't stick out and with ANC off there is still more wind noise than with non Ambient/ANC TWS like say the Bomaker SiFi II. I suppose the mics they use for ANC might not be completely off, or there holes might be letting in some wind ? Since you asked about the SiFi II I prefer them to the FiLL T1X mainly because of their stellar fit and ability to not loose the seal whatever I do, even sweat profusely on the home trainer.

@ HeadphoneAddict  - thanks for the additional thoughts on the MW07 Plus, I think I'm going to give them a try, even if ambient and ANC are "so, so", still better than the L2Ps that don't have either, they take Paypal and have a 14 day return policy too so why not !          

EDIT - Cr@p, the code is no longer valid


----------



## clerkpalmer

webvan said:


> You still get wind noise if you turn off ANC ? I suppose the fact that they stick out doesn't help...although the MTW2 don't stick out and with ANC off there is still more wind noise than with non Ambient/ANC TWS like say the Bomaker SiFi II. I suppose the mics they use for ANC might not be completely off, or there holes might be letting in some wind ? Since you asked about the SiFi II I prefer them to the FiLL T1X mainly because of their stellar fit and ability to not loose the seal whatever I do, even sweat profusely on the home trainer.
> 
> @ HeadphoneAddict  - thanks for the additional thoughts on the MW07 Plus, I think I'm going to give them a try, even if ambient and ANC are "so, so", still better than the L2Ps that don't have either, they take Paypal and have a 14 day return policy too so why not !


Actually I didn't try turning anc off. Maybe ill do that first. Thanks for the recommendation on the bowmaker. I also have a liberty 2 pro but they arent great for biking either.


----------



## hifi80sman

HeadphoneAddict said:


> I wanted a color and material that would be less likely to show scratches over time, and the Leica edition looked like it was less durable dull plastic than the acrylic or whatever they use for the other colors.


The case looks quite nice and is a matte finish, which I prefer, so at least the case will likely be less likely to scratch and be a fingerprint magnet over time.  The earbuds, a little mixed on those.  I think the whole package looks great, but not sure about the big 0.95 on the side of the earbuds.


----------



## Bobbetybob

https://crinacle.com/2020/06/25/akg-n400-review-the-better-galaxy-buds/

Looks like Crinacle has a new favourite. They're on Amazon.com for $190, not sure when they actually launched. Theres a few middling reviews but mostly complaining about the app, will be interesting to see what people think of them If anyone picks them up.


----------



## hifi80sman

webvan said:


> You still get wind noise if you turn off ANC ? I suppose the fact that they stick out doesn't help...although the MTW2 don't stick out and with ANC off there is still more wind noise than with non Ambient/ANC TWS like say the Bomaker SiFi II. I suppose the mics they use for ANC might not be completely off, or there holes might be letting in some wind ? Since you asked about the SiFi II I prefer them to the FiLL T1X mainly because of their stellar fit and ability to not loose the seal whatever I do, even sweat profusely on the home trainer.
> 
> @ HeadphoneAddict  - thanks for the additional thoughts on the MW07 Plus, I think I'm going to give them a try, even if ambient and ANC are "so, so", still better than the L2Ps that don't have either, they take Paypal and have a 14 day return policy too so why not !
> 
> EDIT - Cr@p, the code is no longer valid


Nooooooo!  I was going to buy something else, I just couldn't figure out what yet!

As far as returns, so far so good.  In addition to the MW07 Plus, I purchased the MW65 , but there were some issues with imbalanced ANC (stronger on right side vs. left), stronger driver flex on left side, and mismatched drivers (left was clearer, right had stronger bass).  I sent a request for return and received a response the next day with a pre-paid label.


----------



## incursore61

McCol said:


> Thanks for that
> Just ordered from UK site and code works a treat. £167 with free shipping.



have a link of this shop ? 
tanks


----------



## incursore61

Anden said:


> Thank you for your reply.
> I was hoping to be able to purchase them in a physical store in central europe, but maybe I should give up and order them from the Master & Dynamics site.
> How long did it take for you to receive them after you put in the order?



this code PARTNER40 not rule !


----------



## JOSELICHI

incursore61 said:


> this code PARTNER40 not rule !


Code finished. Sorry


----------



## JOSELICHI

JOSELICHI said:


> Code finished. Sorry


----------



## McCol

incursore61 said:


> have a link of this shop ?
> tanks



Here's the link but code has expired now

https://www.masterdynamic.co.uk/?gc...tv_jZmRjJSaJEV36_10XJj7c-2gaT52RoC0tcQAvD_BwE


----------



## incursore61

Ok tank’s !


----------



## incursore61

https://www.farfetch.com/it/shoppin...os=2&rid=b8e37b8f-73ce-4798-9103-edccea748a50


220 euros ...


----------



## incursore61

https://www.amazon.it/dp/B07P23SHDQ...&colid=I0FDG80BTC35&ref_=lv_ov_lig_dp_it&th=1

201 euro......pink


----------



## clerkpalmer

webvan said:


> You still get wind noise if you turn off ANC ? I suppose the fact that they stick out doesn't help...although the MTW2 don't stick out and with ANC off there is still more wind noise than with non Ambient/ANC TWS like say the Bomaker SiFi II. I suppose the mics they use for ANC might not be completely off, or there holes might be letting in some wind ? Since you asked about the SiFi II I prefer them to the FiLL T1X mainly because of their stellar fit and ability to not loose the seal whatever I do, even sweat profusely on the home trainer.
> 
> @ HeadphoneAddict  - thanks for the additional thoughts on the MW07 Plus, I think I'm going to give them a try, even if ambient and ANC are "so, so", still better than the L2Ps that don't have either, they take Paypal and have a 14 day return policy too so why not !
> 
> EDIT - Cr@p, the code is no longer valid



How would you compare your L2Ps To the bowmaker ? I love the sq of the anker. Do the bowmakers compete?


----------



## howdy

bubsdaddy said:


> I bought a pair of Powerbeats Pros and I'm still having trouble getting any kind of decent seal. So far, my best option has been the largest tips and they kind of sit on the outside of my ear canal and seal OK until I run - and then the seal breaks and they sound like a $5 tinny set. I would appreciate any suggestions. Also, what is the largest 3rd party tip anyone has ever seen that would be available to purchase on Amazon?


I had the same issues until I started messing around with the wings. If they press to hard they will break your seal. I took awhile tell I found the perfect fit. Now I just grab them out and plug them in my ears. Believe me, they have a lot of bass.


----------



## howdy

Also, I picked up my Jabra 75ts today. I like them a lot more than my 65ts. These have Skull shaking bass! Had to turn that down a bit. I like how easy the button is to push, just like my power beats pro. So far so good!


----------



## hifi80sman

howdy said:


> Also, I picked up my Jabra 75ts today. I like them a lot more than my 65ts. These have Skull shaking bass! Had to turn that down a bit. I like how easy the button is to push, just like my power beats pro. So far so good!


Have you tried the Sony WF-SP800N?  Those have some nice, textured bass.


----------



## howdy

hifi80sman said:


> Have you tried the Sony WF-SP800N?  Those have some nice, textured bass.



Nope. I'm gonna try real hard to reduce the amount of TWS I have now as it's to much, and I only have 8. I have 3 for sale right now on headfi.


----------



## Mouseman

TheLionelHutz said:


> Looks like principally the 12mm driver, Qi charging, and IPX7, at least over the Rimor.


I hope it doesn't sound anything like the Rimor.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

webvan said:


> You still get wind noise if you turn off ANC ? I suppose the fact that they stick out doesn't help...although the MTW2 don't stick out and with ANC off there is still more wind noise than with non Ambient/ANC TWS like say the Bomaker SiFi II. I suppose the mics they use for ANC might not be completely off, or there holes might be letting in some wind ? Since you asked about the SiFi II I prefer them to the FiLL T1X mainly because of their stellar fit and ability to not loose the seal whatever I do, even sweat profusely on the home trainer.
> 
> @ HeadphoneAddict  - thanks for the additional thoughts on the MW07 Plus, I think I'm going to give them a try, even if ambient and ANC are "so, so", still better than the L2Ps that don't have either, they take Paypal and have a 14 day return policy too so why not !
> 
> EDIT - Cr@p, the code is no longer valid



I now have my MTW and XM3 EQ'd to sound more like my M&D MW07 Plus, LOL. I hadn't messed with the XM3 EQ except for the clearbass (usually between +3 to +8), but now I added some treble for clarity.

I could play with EQ on the Jabra 75t but I think I'm already happy with the settings that I posted here the other day. However, the GBuds+ are a lost cause as far as EQ is concerned, unless using Apple Music and the "treble reducer" EQ in iPhone settings.

I tried my AirPods Pro after a long hiatus and thought, "Hmmm,l these are better than I remember" in the sense that they don't do anything offensive. But in comparison to the MW07 Plus that I tried immediately afterwards (or EQ'd XM3) the APP are just a little "meh" sounding. The APP are my favorite for phone calls with transparency mode on, but that's it. I don't think EQ would improve anything - they're just slightly artificial sounding and not as dynamic as the other brands.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

hifi80sman said:


> The case looks quite nice and is a matte finish, which I prefer, so at least the case will likely be less likely to scratch and be a fingerprint magnet over time.  The earbuds, a little mixed on those.  I think the whole package looks great, but not sure about the big 0.95 on the side of the earbuds.



Yeah, but you knew about the big 0.95 when you opted for them. The black quartz looks like real stone to me, and a little more high-end I think. Today I dropped my right one about 1.5 feet onto the floor air-conditioner and heater vent's metal grate, and it didn't leave a single mark on it and they work fine. The Leica version just looked like a softer material in the pictures, and although I'm a Leica owner I didn't want the styling in my IEM. 

I wore the MW07+ on a walk with my dog for a mile in ambient mode, and I didn't hear my feet thumping inside my head, and I was even able to hear birds chirping and talk to a neighbor who was 30 feet away with minimal occlusion. APP transparency is better, but this is good enough. I like that Ambient has sooo much less hiss than the Jabra 75t, and I think it's actually working about as well as XM3 with the Ambient set for 18/20.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

hifi80sman said:


> Nooooooo!  I was going to buy something else, I just couldn't figure out what yet!
> 
> As far as returns, so far so good.  In addition to the MW07 Plus, I purchased the MW65 , but there were some issues with imbalanced ANC (stronger on right side vs. left), stronger driver flex on left side, and mismatched drivers (left was clearer, right had stronger bass).  I sent a request for return and received a response the next day with a pre-paid label.



So, you did a return rather than an exchange? I bet if you explain that you wanted to re-purchase them at the same price they would give you a one time use code.


----------



## FYLegend

hifi80sman said:


> These mothers look interesting.  I need a pair for the pool in Hawaii.  Anyone try them yet?
> https://www.amazon.com/Jabees-Waterproof-Cancelling-Microphones-Qi-Enabled/dp/B07Z8QSXX3/





TheLionelHutz said:


> I tried the first Firefly and absolutely hated them. The fit was awful, the button was stiff and didn't work more than half the time, and the mids were totally blown out. Upside down V signature. This was before I had an effective EQ solution so I don't know if they're tamable, but I also was fairly disappointed and sent them back almost immediately. These look a little more interesting and like they would at least fit better, but $100 for pool buds without aptX seems a bit steep.


I had the Firefly Pro which is pretty much the same design as the first one but with the Qi charging case like this one. The fit didn't bother me much, but I did notice they were a bit more comfortable when flipped (the housings are mostly symmetrical but nozzle tilted slightly one way). They were my daily driver until I misplaced the buds (still have the case). Ambient sound was helpful but only because the passive isolation was not good to begin with. The mid-bass was very punchy though I didn't find it muffled - overall a fun and lively sound without really drowning the highs and decent soundstage, but it did not respond well to EQ. I was told by Jabees the sound quality isn't much different between the Firefly and Firefly Pro, but that the Firefly.2 has a different tuning. They all have a USB Type-C port, but it is a "fake" port as it doesn't charge with C2C cables. 

Still curious what chip they have use, I'm guessing Airoha as they have a very good dual-channel mode, and the connection with AAC on my phone is very stable. However, SBC had distortion, more latency and distortion, especially on Windows 10. They are firmware upgradeable which fixed a number of issues and removed the SBC distortion but the connection and latency was still mediocre.


----------



## bedlamite

Didn't get to put an order in for the MW07+ before the code expired, bleh. Looking around the 'net it seems M&D have been dropping codes quite often during the pandemic, let's hope another code comes by soon.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict (Jun 26, 2020)




----------



## pokenguyen

I posted this quite some time ago. I tested L2P, Sony WF1000XM3, SMTW1 and MW07 Go and clearly MW07 Go won me everytime, they just sound fantastic and engaging.


----------



## Bartig

TheLionelHutz said:


> Thanks for the review. How do these feel? I have the SoundPeats for conference calls, and I find that they cause my ears to ache after an hour or so.


These are more comfortable to me than the SoundPEATS Truebuds and TrueAir, as they are more mininal around the stem. I can hang them in my ears and not notice them after a while.



RobinFood said:


> Awesome! I've been looking for a premium half in ear for such a long time and had settled in ambient mode being my best hope at something similar!
> 
> Every website I've seen with the Foil CC for sale claims it has active noise reduction... Being half in ear I don't expect it to be amazing, but did you notice of they isolate better than your other half in ear sets?


Well, there are half-in-ears that put through more surrounding noises, so I guess this has a relative okay noise isolation for half-in-ears. However, I guess they mean active noise reduction during phone calls. And yes - it does that. You may have to warn people with these that you're still on the line. That's how silent surrounding noises can be during calls. Really impressive.

By the way - I think the Mpow M30 is one of the best sounding wireless earbuds under $50 now. More of you had a chance to listen to it?


----------



## webvan (Jun 26, 2020)

clerkpalmer said:


> How would you compare your L2Ps To the bowmaker ? I love the sq of the anker. Do the bowmakers compete?



The Bomaker are not in the same class in terms of SQ as the L2P, I don't think many are ! They're not unpleasant by any means but are "duller" over all and I wouldn't use them for "critical listening" in a quiet environment. Having said that they serve a very different purpose, terrific isolation and fit (best fitting TWEs for my ears) with a fit that practically never breaks, that's priceless and great for bike riding in the boonies which is what you're after.

@"those who missed the MW07 Plus like me" - watch Jimmy's review (that I had missed somehow) and you'll likely feel better 

Besides I'll have an excuse to try the SP800N !


----------



## pokenguyen

webvan said:


> @"those who missed the MW07 Plus like me" - watch Jimmy's review (that I had missed somehow) and you'll likely feel better



You can buy MW07 Go for 100$ cheaper and still sound as good without ANC. I watched Jimmy review, but you'd better try it by yourself instead of listening to others. To my ears SMTW is warmer and more bunchy, but MW07 soundstage and airness WITHOUT treble fatiguing won it over me. I tried ANC TWS like Sony, SMTW before, they are good but not groundbreaking for me. MW07 Go passive isolation is already good enough and they just fantastic.


----------



## bedlamite

Master & Dynamic position themselves as a luxury brand and it's easy enough to argue against buying into them, especially in this pandemic where not many may have the means to splash out $200-300 on designer audio gear.

That said, I've come across several user reviews all over the 'net saying the Go/Plus do possess an unique sound and if you're into this TWS stuff (as we all are), I still think it's worth checking them out.


----------



## McCol

webvan said:


> The Bomaker are not in the same class in terms of SQ as the L2P, I don't think many are ! They're not unpleasant by any means but are "duller" over all and I wouldn't use them for "critical listening" in a quiet environment. Having said that they serve a very different purpose, terrific isolation and fit (best fitting TWEs for my ears) with a fit that practically never breaks, that's priceless and great for bike riding in the boonies which is what you're after.
> 
> @"those who missed the MW07 Plus like me" - watch Jimmy's review (that I had missed somehow) and you'll likely feel better
> 
> Besides I'll have an excuse to try the SP800N !



To be honest I wouldn't base my decision on one review.  The MW07 Plus seem to be one of the better reviewed models when looking at different sources.


----------



## Audiosolace

pokenguyen said:


> I posted this quite some time ago. I tested L2P, Sony WF1000XM3, SMTW1 and MW07 Go and clearly MW07 Go won me everytime, they just sound fantastic and engaging.



Indeed the MW07 are very engaging and they have cleverly implemented beryllium drivers to provide that sound


----------



## C_Lindbergh

https://www.lowyat.net/2020/215809/lg-tone-free-hbs-fn6-self-cleaning-true-wireless-earbuds/

Interesting concept to say the least, with a self sterilizing case


----------



## TK33

pokenguyen said:


> You can buy MW07 Go for 100$ cheaper and still sound as good without ANC. I watched Jimmy review, but you'd better try it by yourself instead of listening to others. To my ears SMTW is warmer and more bunchy, but MW07 soundstage and airness WITHOUT treble fatiguing won it over me. I tried ANC TWS like Sony, SMTW before, they are good but not groundbreaking for me. MW07 Go passive isolation is already good enough and they just fantastic.



I think the differences in MTW vs. MW07 Go complement each other quite well, which is why I have and use both (only have MTW Gen 1). Agree that the Senn MTW is warmer but it also has the ability to EQ via the app and sounds great. I wish M&D had an app with EQ for the MW07 Go.  They do have very different sound signatures and I am happy with both, although my MTW's case battery seems to finally be degrading.


----------



## webvan

I certainly wasn't dissing the MW07 Plus, just helping those like me who missed out move on from the disappointment  Actually the reason I missed out on the deal is I couldn't decide between the PLUS and the GO..and remembered I have the L2P (on top of my daily Echobuds/SiFI II drivers) and I'm not sure the GO is really a lot "better" than the L2Ps ?


----------



## C_Lindbergh

I just can't bring myself to purchase more True Wireless atm now when were on the brink of Bluetooth 5.2 and all the improvements that will follow.


----------



## RemoGaggi

clerkpalmer said:


> How would you compare your L2Ps To the bowmaker ? I love the sq of the anker. Do the bowmakers compete?


I can only comment on the fit of the Bomaker Sifi 2, if that is what you are considering.  I returned mine to Amazon because I couldn't get them to fit right.  For me, I always need the larger ear tip and a deep fit.  The large tip on the Bomaker wasn't deep fitting enough and I could not get a good (or even decent) seal unless I physically pressed them into my ears while listening.  The most frustrating thing about the SiFi 2 is the stupid case.  If you want to use any tips other than the stock tips the come with it, forget it.  Any tip that is even just a hair deeper *or wider* than the large stock tip, will not allow the earbud to charge and you won't be able to close the case.  To me, this is a deal breaker and I have not idea why they designed a case that is so unforgiving.  For reference, the earbuds I currently have that fit me good are Fiil T1x, Haylou GT1 Plus, KZ 1Z, and Tranya B530.


----------



## Antenne

Gearbest has a flash sale of " FIIL CC Airoha 1536 Bluetooth 5.0 TWS Earphones". New model? Although I really like a design with "stem", I cannot really understand the high price point. Apart from "German design" I find nothing special, the app will probably only be Chinese? At least an EQ can be seen. 

Has anyone insight into reasons for delay of the Earfun Air sales launch supposed to start early June? Last month, Earfun customers got big discount offers for early bird purchases, but then only a few were sold. I hope there are no quality (-control) issues, The Air should have been my next TWS order.


----------



## synesthesiac (Jun 26, 2020)

Without reading this entire thread... I wonder about updates to the experiences with V Moda's Bassfit (or Forza Metallo). I want the best with:
-- wear like a necklace (more room for battery + less likely to lose / get knocked off)
-- good (dangling) microphone
-- a top audio codec (seems no lossless via bluetooth yet, but close is OK)

I'm coming from Beats X, which I only bought because I was in a pinch.
Thanks audiophiles! 

Edit. Another potential candidate:
https://usa.1more.com/collections/headphones/bluetooth-headphones


----------



## incursore61

This model is MW07 or MW 07 plus ?

or MW07 Go ....?

https://www.farfetch.com/it/shoppin...colari-in-ear-item-13245515.aspx?storeid=9359



I can't understand the difference between the models ... thanks to those who want to help me.


----------



## Darkestred

Didnt see this anywhere but the Sony WF-SP800N are on sale at bestbuy and amazon for $168.

Amazon: https://tinyurl.com/y987h7fy
Bestbuy:  https://tinyurl.com/y8ruvs4x


----------



## howdy

incursore61 said:


> This model is MW07 or MW 07 plus ?
> 
> or MW07 Go ....?
> 
> ...


That's the first iteration of the MW07.


----------



## clerkpalmer (Jun 26, 2020)

Bobbetybob said:


> https://crinacle.com/2020/06/25/akg-n400-review-the-better-galaxy-buds/
> 
> Looks like Crinacle has a new favourite. They're on Amazon.com for $190, not sure when they actually launched. Theres a few middling reviews but mostly complaining about the app, will be interesting to see what people think of them If anyone picks them up.


Nice.  These look compelling.  I'm gonna try them and compare them to the Sony Sp800n.  ANC plus IPX7 and Crinnacle's seal of approval.  Pricey but whatever.  Maybe they'll beat the mighty MTW2.  Edit:  That's a pretty damn glowing review by Crinacle.  Wow.  Comparing them favorably to mid level wired IEMS.  I'm giddy with anticipation.


----------



## actorlife (Jun 26, 2020)

Hey guys!!! Man I haven’t used my TWS in over a year. Syllable I’ve used once in a while for TV or phone, but not music. Charged them all up and put them in my bag this week. I really miss them. Nothing new bought either. If Anbes ever return with a new model I might bite. Perhaps 6.0? What are the current top budget TWS $15-30 right now?


----------



## d3myz

Anyone know if Target is the only major retailer that sells the white version of the Sony WF-SP800n?


----------



## d3myz (Jun 26, 2020)

bump


----------



## actorlife (Jun 26, 2020)

d3myz said:


> Anyone know if Target is the only major retailer that sells the white version of the Sony WF-SP800n?i


Hey dude you’re still here? Cool. Any good TWS in the classic Anbes style? Looks like they are now making smartwatches now:
Anbes Smart Watch for Android Phones and Compatible with iPhone Samsung, IP68 Waterproof Health Tracker Smartwatch with Heart Rate Monitor Calorie Counter Sleep Monitor for Women Men https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0816D8DZT/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_tyK9EbATVY1RP


----------



## Caipirina

axhng said:


> just got these. first impressions... it's like creative outlier air, but at half the price and with touch controls? (but no volume controls) the shape and fit of the earbuds are very very similar to the outlier just smaller (outlier still has a more stable fit for my ears). it has similar up to 10hr battery life rating, same qcc3020 chipset too. Case is plastic and has a more traditional flip open case (with spring loaded mechanism which shows battery percentage when opened), but it's smaller and more pocketable. USB-C charging too. the plastic feels to be slightly better in quality compared to something like the haylou gt1 too.
> 
> sound wise it's pretty decent too. pretty inoffensive V-shaped sound. No harsh treble and upper mids isn't too shouty. lower mids can sound a bit recessed though, and the elevated bass probably doesn't help. Not to say it's bloated though. Bass still sounds tight and has a nice punch without overdoing it.Overall a smooth and maybe slightly warm sound. I like it more than the Outlier Air/Gold which can be a bit hot in the treble for me, and maybe a bit too bassy. This is not fatiguing to listen to and i think will work really well at higher volume too when jogging for example. Seems pretty decent for the price.


Great, now I feel I need them.  And here I thought I was finally coming off my addiction...


----------



## actorlife

Caipirina said:


> Great, now I feel I need them.  And here I thought I was finally coming off my addiction...


Haha ah man how what is the count now?


----------



## hifi80sman

actorlife said:


> Hey guys!!! Man I haven’t used my TWS in over a year. Syllable I’ve used once in a while for TV or phone, but not music. Charged them all up and put them in my bag this week. I really miss them. Nothing new bought either. If Anbes ever return with a new model I might bite. Perhaps 6.0? What are the current top budget TWS $15-30 right now?


Looks like the MPOW M30 is getting some good reviews, one by @Bartig in particular.

Currently listed for $29.


----------



## hifi80sman

d3myz said:


> Anyone know if Target is the only major retailer that sells the white version of the Sony WF-SP800n?


Yep, I believe they are.  I'm not sure if it's an official exclusive, but I have not see it anywhere else in terms of an authorized retailer.

Are you looking to pick them up?  I like them quite a bit and calls work better compared to the XM3 which make you sound a little muffled.


----------



## clerkpalmer

hifi80sman said:


> Yep, I believe they are.  I'm not sure if it's an official exclusive, but I have not see it anywhere else in terms of an authorized retailer.
> 
> Are you looking to pick them up?  I like them quite a bit and calls work better compared to the XM3 which make you sound a little muffled.


I only saw them at target as well.  They look quite nice.  If you can live with Blue, I might have a barely used set available for a discount if you can wait until Sunday/Monday.  The wind noise on the bike may be a deal breaker for me.  Gonna give them another test.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict (Jun 26, 2020)

webvan said:


> The Bomaker are not in the same class in terms of SQ as the L2P, I don't think many are ! They're not unpleasant by any means but are "duller" over all and I wouldn't use them for "critical listening" in a quiet environment. Having said that they serve a very different purpose, terrific isolation and fit (best fitting TWEs for my ears) with a fit that practically never breaks, that's priceless and great for bike riding in the boonies which is what you're after.
> 
> @"those who missed the MW07 Plus like me" - watch Jimmy's review (that I had missed somehow) and you'll likely feel better
> 
> Besides I'll have an excuse to try the SP800N !



When I posted Jimmy's review link this AM ^ above, I tried to comment that there were problems with his review, but they got lost somehow.

What I lost:

(1) I wrote with the right tips the ANC works better than what he described. It does make fans and running water in the same room fade noticeably into the background, and the clothes washer running in the other room disappears completely. I felt he had a bad seal.

(2) I am experiencing ZERO noticeable latency or lag with YouTube on MacBook AptX or iPhone SBC connections.

Also, (3) I found his comments about them having less bass and ANC to definitely indicate that he doesn't have a good seal - the wings on one of his ear pieces was also not installed properly and could result in a worse seal. These have great bass without EQ, but they didn't have bass with the medium tips that came installed.

EDIT - It looks like when I pasted in the second video link that my comments about Jimmy's video must have been highlighted and got overwritten by what I added.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

TK33 said:


> I think the differences in MTW vs. MW07 Go complement each other quite well, which is why I have and use both (only have MTW Gen 1). Agree that the Senn MTW is warmer but it also has the ability to EQ via the app and sounds great. I wish M&D had an app with EQ for the MW07 Go.  They do have very different sound signatures and I am happy with both, although my MTW's case battery seems to finally be degrading.



Yeah, I mentioned yesterday that you can EQ the MTW rev1 to sound more like the MW07+, and that goes for the XM3 too, making them both more lively sounding. I'm pretty sure I would NOT change anything to the MW07+ sound with an EQ, so I don't miss not having an app. They are already so dynamic and engaging without EQ.

I also don't get any BT disconnections with the MW07+ or MTW, unlike my XM3 that mess up about once a day.


----------



## hifi80sman

Bartig said:


> These are more comfortable to me than the SoundPEATS Truebuds and TrueAir, as they are more mininal around the stem. I can hang them in my ears and not notice them after a while.
> 
> 
> Well, there are half-in-ears that put through more surrounding noises, so I guess this has a relative okay noise isolation for half-in-ears. However, I guess they mean active noise reduction during phone calls. And yes - it does that. You may have to warn people with these that you're still on the line. That's how silent surrounding noises can be during calls. Really impressive.
> ...


You made me buy them.  I hope you're happy with yourself.


----------



## logiatype (Jun 26, 2020)

Decided to skip the whole TWS craze and stick with wired Chi-Fi iems (and over-ear BT cans) till I suddenly got annoyed by the heat and wires (working from home). No idea why I didn't give this a shot before.

Looked at a graphs to see what sound signature I might prefer and got the Samsung GBuds+ (a week ago) and now the Tevi (today).

Quick takeaways:

Samsung's engineering is amazing. The GBuds+ are clearly the better package physically (got the BestBuy aura blues and they're sexy).
The GBuds+ touch controls are far easier to use than the Tevi's tactile buttons. Not the biggest deal to me since I almost never use them.
Samsung is really turning into the next Apple. The lack of Apt-X and locking SBC at 37 (out of 53) Bitpool is clearly to force users into their proprietary codec (and their phones). Basically ensures that unless you own a Samsung device, the Buds+ are a non-starter.
Apt-X vs bad SBC is instantly noticeable! I didn't think it would be so clearly noticeable. Seems that Windows 10 will connect via Apt-X as long as you have a 4.0+ dongle (even if it's not Apt-X certified).
They both have pretty similar sound signature (because that's what I was looking for). I prefer the Gbuds+ (on clear) but the difference isn't significant enough to pick one over the other. I'd say the Tevis come out on top with their app (equalizer). They just need to get it on iOS. The Tevis seem like the GBuds+ on Dynamic.
Both very comfortable and easy to get a seal. However, the Tevis are 1.5g lighter and definitely feel lighter (noticed the weight difference and weighed them).
The Tevis have better range and a better microphone by far. Not even CLOSE. However, the Tevi only has one mic between the two pairs which is kind of an odd choice.
Samsung's case is so much smaller but the Tevis give you much more of a recharge (22 vs 70). I'd say it's a wash. Both last around 10 hours so battery life is a wash.
Tevis don't have audio passthrough but I never bother with that. Something to keep in mind if you use it.
One major win for the GBuds+ is that you don't need to disconnect from one device to connect to the other. Connect from your new device and they jump right over.
I think Samsung made a real miss-step with their codec choices (see #2). For $60 less, it's a real conundrum as to which one goes back. Leaning towards keeping the Tevi at the moment (as the majority of my use is with a Windows machine and iPhone). I think Apt-X would have made the GBuds+ a no brainer (total shame).

I'll probably stop here and wait for what BT 5.2 will bring. Very excited about the future of TWS. I don't have a wired pair with me to compare but the convenience is definitely worth whatever hit there is in audio quality I think.


GBuds+ Codecs:



Tevi Codecs:




Edit: the two screenshots show why SBC on the GBuds+ is worse. Samsung sets Bitpool to 37 (160kbps) vs the max 53 (~330kbps).


----------



## hifi80sman

HeadphoneAddict said:


> Yeah, but you knew about the big 0.95 when you opted for them. The black quartz looks like real stone to me, and a little more high-end I think. Today I dropped my right one about 1.5 feet onto the floor air-conditioner and heater vent's metal grate, and it didn't leave a single mark on it and they work fine. The Leica version just looked like a softer material in the pictures, and although I'm a Leica owner I didn't want the styling in my IEM.
> 
> I wore the MW07+ on a walk with my dog for a mile in ambient mode, and I didn't hear my feet thumping inside my head, and I was even able to hear birds chirping and talk to a neighbor who was 30 feet away with minimal occlusion. APP transparency is better, but this is good enough. I like that Ambient has sooo much less hiss than the Jabra 75t, and I think it's actually working about as well as XM3 with the Ambient set for 18/20.


I got the same version as you: Black Quartz.  In my haste, I actually didn't notice the Leica Version until the other member posted it.  I was remarking that the case looks quite snazzy and won't likely be a fingerprint magnet, but I'm not sure of I can deal with walking around with 0.95 on the earbuds vs. the more luxurious looking Black Quartz.


----------



## hifi80sman

logiatype said:


> Decided to skip the whole TWS craze and stick with wired Chi-Fi iems (and over-ear BT cans) till I suddenly got annoyed by the heat and wires (working from home). No idea why I didn't give this a shot before.
> 
> Looked at a graphs to see what sound signature I might prefer and got the Samsung GBuds+ (a week ago) and now the Tevi (today).
> 
> ...


What are you going to try next?  I'd hate to think it stops at the Tevi and GBuds+.  It's like drinking 1 lite beer and saying "I'm Out".


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

hifi80sman said:


> You made me buy them.  I hope you're happy with yourself.


Why did you get those instead of the M30 Plus?


----------



## logiatype

hifi80sman said:


> What are you going to try next?  I'd hate to think it stops at the Tevi and GBuds+.  It's like drinking 1 lite beer and saying "I'm Out".



I've read through this thread and don't really see anything else tugging at my wallet (fortunately). What are other recommendations for something that sounds like an ER2XR (not a fan of lots of mid-bass)?
Sony's house sound isn't exactly my thing and the XM3's are too unweildly lol.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

hifi80sman said:


> I got the same version as you: Black Quartz.  In my haste, I actually didn't notice the Leica Version until the other member posted it.  I was remarking that the case looks quite snazzy and won't likely be a fingerprint magnet, but I'm not sure of I can deal with walking around with 0.95 on the earbuds vs. the more luxurious looking Black Quartz.


Okay, my bad.


----------



## hifi80sman

HeadphoneAddict said:


> Why did you get those instead of the M30 Plus?


The only difference was the larger case, but I rarely would be in a situation to use all the juice from the case before charging it anyway.  Also, this would be mainly for the gym and I bring a small gym pouch with me, so it would add weight I don't need.  Plus, keeping the purchase starting with a "2" is almost considered a non-purchase by the Mrs., so I can make another purchase with no possibility for future nagging.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict (Jun 26, 2020)

hifi80sman said:


> The only difference was the larger case, but I rarely would be in a situation to use all the juice from the case before charging it anyway.  Also, this would be mainly for the gym and I bring a small gym pouch with me, so it would add weight I don't need.  Plus, keeping the purchase starting with a "2" is almost considered a non-purchase by the Mrs., so I can make another purchase with no possibility for future nagging.



Also,

"Q3.I have bought M30 and M30 Plus at the same time, can I put earbuds of M30 in the charging case of M30 plus to charge? Or put earbuds of M30 plus to the charging case of M30 to charge?

NO, although earbuds of M30 and M30 plus are the same in appearance, but the battery case can't charge the different model earbuds. Please use the original case to charge the earbuds, not mix."

So, you can't use the larger case with the regular buds. Why would they do that?

Also, the video review by Patuoxun says the Mpow M30 have more bass than the M30 Plus, and "it says so right on the box".

EDIT - tell you what - imma order both and compare them before I give them to my kids.


----------



## turbobb

logiatype said:


> GBuds+ Codecs:
> 
> Tevi Codecs:


Thx for the feedback. How did you get the Codecs output?


----------



## hifi80sman

HeadphoneAddict said:


> Also,
> 
> "Q3.I have bought M30 and M30 Plus at the same time, can I put earbuds of M30 in the charging case of M30 plus to charge? Or put earbuds of M30 plus to the charging case of M30 to charge?
> 
> ...


That'll be interesting to see what your impressions are and compatibility between the cases.  @Bartig seems to suggest the buds are the same, but it's not clear if he actually has both of them.


----------



## hifi80sman

logiatype said:


> I've read through this thread and don't really see anything else tugging at my wallet (fortunately). What are other recommendations for something that sounds like an ER2XR (not a fan of lots of mid-bass)?
> Sony's house sound isn't exactly my thing and the XM3's are too unweildly lol.


They'll stick out a bit, but the Nuarl N6 Pro rates well and sounds like a signature you may enjoy.  I had the first version with a similar design and they were comfortable.  Also, the MW07 Plus is worth a shot.  Sound is lively and engaging, but some people have comfort/fit issues.


----------



## logiatype

turbobb said:


> Thx for the feedback. How did you get the Codecs output?



Using this app. It's only $4.99 for a full license. It gives you a 7 day trial for one connection.
https://www.bluetoothgoodies.com/tweaker/


----------



## hifi80sman

HeadphoneAddict said:


> Okay, my bad.


No worries, brotha!  I simply wanted to clarify I don't have that version so I can't provide any clarification on the durability of the buds.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

*BTW, lest anyone thinks I am bashing Galaxy Buds Plus, they are not that bad and are full of features.

My TWO main complaints are: *

(1) The treble with music is a little too hot for me at moderate to high volumes, and it can't be properly EQ'd in the app without making them sound dull and lifeless with the "bass boost" or "smooth" EQ. Which sucks because at low volumes they sound pretty good and aren't too shrill, as the V-shape frequency response acts like a loudness control for low volume listening.
(2) The ambient mode is a little too treble oriented and doesn't pass through lower frequencies, and is very susceptible to wind noise. It really amplifies the clacking of my typing on my MacBook Pro 16". 

*The good things are:*

(1) With ambient mode on, I can hear my own voice almost as clearly as I can when wearing APP = GREAT FOR PHONE CALLS
(2) You can set ambient mode to actually amplify the TV speakers at night to hear more clearly while people are sleeping.
(3) They are supremely comfortable, more than many of the others that I have - they just disappear.
(4) The sound at low to medium volumes is detailed and crisp with good bass extension (at higher volumes the treble gets grating).
(5) Passive noise reduction is very good. I'm okay without ANC.
(6) You can control EVERYTHING with taps and presses for play, pause, answer, hangup, skip fwd and back, ambient, voice assistant, and volume up and down.
(7) Qi charging, need I say more?
(8) Tiny size of case and buds, which stays tiny even with an aftermarket case to protect the glossy finish.
(9) You can lock the touch pad if you will be using them in the rain or snow to avoid unwanted taps, and use your water resistant phone to control playback or volume.
(10) They have "find my earbud" which produces a loud "chirping bird" sound to help you find the one that fell behind the couch - it DOES not help find them when they are in the case and it is shut, as that turns them off and disconnects them.
(11) No hearing any thumping of my footsteps inside my head when my ears are occluded with them in ambient mode - they don't stick out as much and are therefore more stable than my MTW and so they thump less. If I push on my MTW while walking the thumping goes away.
(12) I can take a walk with the dog with ambient sound at level 2 or 3 out of 4 total, and hear cars coming and birds chirping WHILE at the same time listening to quiet music, without the THUMP, and without missing out on the deep bass or treble sparkle.


----------



## logiatype

hifi80sman said:


> They'll stick out a bit, but the Nuarl N6 Pro rates well and sounds like a signature you may enjoy.  I had the first version with a similar design and they were comfortable.  Also, the MW07 Plus is worth a shot.  Sound is lively and engaging, but some people have comfort/fit issues.


I considered the MW07 Plus but the graph doesn't look like my type of playback. I haven't seen a graph of the N6P. Does it behave like the Tevi (you have to disconnect to connect to another source)?


----------



## bedlamite

These are dope.

https://drop.com/buy/drop-master-dy...CampaignId=1318570&iterableTemplateId=1835807


----------



## hifi80sman

bedlamite said:


> These are dope.
> 
> https://drop.com/buy/drop-master-dy...CampaignId=1318570&iterableTemplateId=1835807


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Amazon has the Sony WF-1000XM3 on sale for $178 again.

https://www.amazon.com/Sony-WF-1000...=1593218750&sprefix=echo+buds,aps,201&sr=8-13

With EQ they sound pretty good, but sometimes have a little buggy bluetooth connections (no more than once a day). I set clearbass to +5 and boosted treble to +5 as well. ANC works pretty well, as does transparency mode, but I had to resort to 3rd party tips for the best fit to make them work for me.


----------



## hifi80sman

logiatype said:


> I considered the MW07 Plus but the graph doesn't look like my type of playback. I haven't seen a graph of the N6P. Does it behave like the Tevi (you have to disconnect to connect to another source)?


For what it's worth.
https://blog.ear-phone-review.com/entry/NUARL_N6_Pro


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

hifi80sman said:


>



That is very cool.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

hifi80sman said:


> For what it's worth.
> https://blog.ear-phone-review.com/entry/NUARL_N6_Pro



The translation was a bit odd at times.  "The entire sound field has a sense of height and depth, and it has a spacious area *that allows good ventilation*." Does he mean, "Air" in that spot?


----------



## turbobb

logiatype said:


> Using this app. It's only $4.99 for a full license. It gives you a 7 day trial for one connection.
> https://www.bluetoothgoodies.com/tweaker/


Cool, thanks for that! I checked out the page but couldn't find if the app can tell you what is the Bluetooth version of the connected device - do you know if there is such a feature?


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Master and Dynamic coupon code MDWELCOME10 will save you $30 on the MW07 Plus


----------



## Uzirox

HeadphoneAddict said:


> *BTW, lest anyone thinks I am bashing Galaxy Buds Plus, they are not that bad and are full of features.
> 
> My TWO main complaints are: *
> 
> ...




You made me want these now. I was not 100% sure, but now..... poor wallet!


----------



## Anden

hifi80sman said:


> Also, the MW07 Plus is worth a shot.  Sound is lively and engaging, but some people have comfort/fit issues.


Wouldn't you say that the Spinfit tips could solve the comfort/fit issues?


----------



## benngmunkit

Hi all, looking for a recommendation for a TWS earbuds.

Previously owning a Airpods Gen 1 but the battery is degrading fast, and can only sustain 2 hours plus now.

Looking for a pair of small flushed earbuds in which I can sleep on my side with and also to wear my helmet over. If it is comfortable, it might even replace my helmet bluetooth speaker pads.

The following list of requirements is my preferred in the order of most important to the least important:
1) Comfortable, small flushed earbuds
2) Decent eq with clean vocals, above average sound quality
3) Small and portable case 
4) Software support 
5) Battery life (both buds and case)
6) Connections (aptx, acc, etc.)
7) Built quality
8) Features like qi charging, anc, passive noise cancelling etc.
9) Price

Appreciate anyone who can contribute, cheers!


----------



## hifi80sman

Anden said:


> Wouldn't you say that the Spinfit tips could solve the comfort/fit issues?


For some, maybe.  For me, even though I like them and they’re comfortable enough, it’s not the eargels, rather, the earwings that start to get uncomfortable after a hour or so.


----------



## assassin10000

benngmunkit said:


> Hi all, looking for a recommendation for a TWS earbuds.
> 
> Previously owning a Airpods Gen 1 but the battery is degrading fast, and can only sustain 2 hours plus now.
> 
> ...



#1 depends on the size and shape of your ears. 

For myself only the tronsmart spunky beats or similar shaped buds are ok for side sleeping (anbes 359, kissrael, onyx neo, etc.). For others mifo 05 and other somewhat bigger TWS worked, as they had larger ears or at least more depth in the concha of their ears.


----------



## bronco1015

hifi80sman said:


> You made me buy them.  I hope you're happy with yourself.


I almost bought them, but i pulled myself away. it was really hard. I'm still thinking about it, but i have my eye on a much bigger purchase of something else i shouldn't buy right now....


----------



## logiatype

turbobb said:


> Cool, thanks for that! I checked out the page but couldn't find if the app can tell you what is the Bluetooth version of the connected device - do you know if there is such a feature?



No I don't unfortunately. Isn't it simply the lowest version available between the two devices? Are you trying to confirm if an IEM has the stated version?


----------



## Caipirina

actorlife said:


> Haha ah man how what is the count now?


Still in the 2 digit range


----------



## Caipirina

I received a bunch of new toys today, among them these 2 very different *Edifier* models.
Can you guess which one I find way more exciting and which one goes back?


----------



## turbobb

logiatype said:


> No I don't unfortunately. Isn't it simply the lowest version available between the two devices? Are you trying to confirm if an IEM has the stated version?



Correct, and more so for the lesser known ChiFi units that often taken liberty when claiming features. Would also be helpful as we transition from BT 5.0 to 5.1 and especially 5.2. While Win10 does disclose the BT version, it's only for the Tx and not of the connected devices.


----------



## howdy

So far, still really liking the 75t's. Got the all black which they say is a best buy exclusive. I got the Best Buy extended warranty to so that I don't have to deal with sending them in of anything happens to them.


----------



## bronco1015

Caipirina said:


> actorlife said:
> Haha ah man how what is the count now?
> 
> Still in the 2 digit range


 Does that mean you have 99 TWEs?


----------



## hifi80sman

howdy said:


> So far, still really liking the 75t's. Got the all black which they say is a best buy exclusive. I got the Best Buy extended warranty to so that I don't have to deal with sending them in of anything happens to them.


How would you describe the general sound signature?  Is the bass muddy?


----------



## HeadphoneAddict (Jun 27, 2020)

HeadphoneAddict said:


> *BTW, lest anyone thinks I am bashing Galaxy Buds Plus, they are not that bad and are full of features.
> 
> My TWO main complaints are: *
> 
> ...





benngmunkit said:


> Hi all, looking for a recommendation for a TWS earbuds.
> 
> Previously owning a Airpods Gen 1 but the battery is degrading fast, and can only sustain 2 hours plus now.
> 
> ...



(1) See my quoted post above, What I like about the Galaxy Buds Plus, from just the other day which covers most of your requirements. At $149 they are also half the cost of the Sennheiser Momentum True Wireless, and sounds better than the AirPods Pro that also cost almost 2x as much. Battery life is great at 11 hours + 11 from the case.

As far as CODECs, they support SBC and AAC, as well as the Samsung Scalable CODEC which on Samsung devices should be superior to AAC, which on Apple Devices the AAC will be superior to SBC.

With Apple Music I can use the treble reducer EQ in iPhone settings to tame the treble for more loud listening, but for quiet to medium volume listening I don't need to use any EQ or I use the "Dynamic" EQ in the Samsung App. We are expecting improved EQ support in a future app update.

(2) Another good option (but without Qi support) is the Jabra Elite 75t which with EQ can sound a little better and beat out the AirPods Pro again, and can be found as a refurb for under $100 or $179 full price. Battery life is great at 7.5 hours + another 20 or so hours from the case. It offers great AAC performance on iPhone and Mac, as well as SBC. And it also sounds better and more engaging than AirPods Pro, but may need to EQ down the bass and up the mids in the app until they break-in with 24 hours of music. https://www.cnet.com/reviews/jabra-elite-75t-review/

Both have active ambient modes plus good passive isolation, and small and flush fit that is comfortable, with good quality, battery life, software support, small portable case, and good price.

If you step up to the $300 range you could consider Master and Dynamic MW07+ or Sennheiser Momentum True Wireless 2. But MW07+ don't have software support and stick out like the Sony XM3. The XM3 don't have the small portable case either, and have some BT connection stability issues with my iPhone 11 Pro Max. Leaving just the Sennheiser as a great but expensive choice.

EDIT - what I have in my cargo pants pockets right now are the Jabra, the Gbuds+ and the APP, all three. But I use the Gbuds+ and Jabra the most. If I didn't have room in my pockets the APP would be the first to be left behind - they're less engaging and don't fit me as well.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

hifi80sman said:


> How would you describe the general sound signature?  Is the bass muddy?



The 75t bass was muddy at first, but really improved with burn in. I still tend to add some mids to them with the built-in EQ, or turn down the bass, or both. But they're very engaging and fun and comfortable.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

My project for the weekend.


----------



## mikp

Have anyone compared the quality of jabra 65 and mtw2 with ambient mode and playing music?

Been using the 65 for over 2 years now, 10hours a week with ambient on and music.  Did some tech help for someone and they ordered me the mtw2. So will be curious how they compare to the 65 or the mavins that I really like.


----------



## TooFrank

clerkpalmer said:


> So, my Sony 800n are not good for biking.  Too much wind noise which is a bummer but not surprising.  Any recommendations for a cheapish TWS set that can take some sweat but still sound good.  Looking at the new Bowmaker versus the Fiil.  Is the T1X worth double the price of the Sifi II?  Any other recommendations?  Riding on trails so isolation is preferred to letting in ambient sound.


FWIW: have you considered Jaybird Vista? They sound good, are rock solid and can take sweat and rain. I’ve even showered with them, although this is nor recommend by jaybird  don’t know if you will find the price cheapish though....


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Seriously?!?!?!?!  



973K subscribers left behind.


----------



## howdy

hifi80sman said:


> How would you describe the general sound signature?  Is the bass muddy?


A lot of bass! So much that I Eq'ed it down. With the Eq you can get the signature you want. I like the sound aot more than the 65s and they are small and fit flush in my ears. Plenty of battery life to. 
I checked the range today and it's really close to how far the XM3S are which for me go the furthest of the ones I have. I will be keeping these!
 I'm "trying" to sell 3 pairs right now to make the wife happy and I really don't need 9 pairs.


----------



## clerkpalmer

TooFrank said:


> FWIW: have you considered Jaybird Vista? They sound good, are rock solid and can take sweat and rain. I’ve even showered with them, although this is nor recommend by jaybird  don’t know if you will find the price cheapish though....


I used to love Jaybird back in the corded bt days. I gave up on them because they are SBC only which is inexcusable in 2020 let alone for 179.99. I do bet the fit is nice.


----------



## FYLegend

logiatype said:


> Decided to skip the whole TWS craze and stick with wired Chi-Fi iems (and over-ear BT cans) till I suddenly got annoyed by the heat and wires (working from home). No idea why I didn't give this a shot before.
> 
> Looked at a graphs to see what sound signature I might prefer and got the Samsung GBuds+ (a week ago) and now the Tevi (today).
> 
> ...


Yeah, I was informed about the bitpool being only 37 on the Buds+, and that it was probably intentionally set by Samsung, which is a real shame because I've had other chi-fi TWS like the Anbes 359 that sound much cleaner. For general usage like videos and gaming the quality is fine, until there are string instruments or airy choir sounds like the intro of this song:


On an Android phone with dual Bluetooth output (to both the Buds and another device such as a speaker), the Buds sound just as bad as they do by default on SBC, whereas on other earbuds on SBC they only sound bad when using dual output.

The passthrough on the Buds+ is clear but missing a lot of bass frequencies and does some weird panning to compensate for clipping to reducing wind noise. The volume also gradually decreases to your until you restart it. Jabra 65t, Jabees Firefly Pro and MDR-1000X among others keep a steady volume.

#10 is a convenient feature except that Windows 10 stubbornly forces the connection when you power on your machine. In the latest firmware update for the Buds+ there's an option to turn off the seamless connection. Still wish they had multipoint as they first implied there was and then claimed it was a typo.

As an aside, the eartip material is one of the most irritating I have used. While not unbearable, I've never really had itching with other IEM eartips except the Buds+.


----------



## FYLegend

HeadphoneAddict said:


> Seriously?!?!?!?!
> 
> 
> 
> 973K subscribers left behind.



Oluv will be overjoyed "no more overrated reviews of products that sound awful, next RTings need to go down" 


Anyways, has anyone here tried TOZO NC9? Finally a budget TWS ANC that has USB-C, volume controls ambient mode.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

FYLegend said:


> Oluv will be overjoyed "no more overrated reviews of products that sound awful, next RTings need to go down"
> 
> 
> Anyways, has anyone here tried TOZO NC9? Finally a budget TWS ANC that has USB-C, volume controls ambient mode.



Yeah, but who just leaves 973,000 subscribers like that?


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

FYLegend said:


> Yeah, I was informed about the bitpool being only 37 on the Buds+, and that it was probably intentionally set by Samsung, which is a real shame because I've had other chi-fi TWS like the Anbes 359 that sound much cleaner. For general usage like videos and gaming the quality is fine, until there are string instruments or airy choir sounds like the intro of this song:
> 
> 
> On an Android phone with dual Bluetooth output (to both the Buds and another device such as a speaker), the Buds sound just as bad as they do by default on SBC, whereas on other earbuds on SBC they only sound bad when using dual output.
> ...




Weird, because the Gbuds+ tips are some fo the few tips that DO NOT make my ears itch.

I don't do anything with audio on my Lenova Yoga 720 laptop, which is only for lightweight traveling mail and browsing when I don't want to take a big 16" laptop in my carry on bag. I have my MacBook Bluetooth Explorer App set to force using AptX or to use AAC over SBC, and it works pretty well with never using SBC. So, Gbuds+ work fine for me without SBC and I have not had an issue with volume gradually decreasing.


----------



## howdy

At the Camper.


----------



## clerkpalmer (Jun 27, 2020)

The AKG N400 is seriously awesome.  Although Crinancle hated on MW07 (my favorites to date) I have to agree with him on these.  The tuning is stellar.  It's tuned for an audiophile sound - balanced, crisp and nothing overwhelms but they are very musical.  There is some bass boost so they thump nicely but it is not v-shaped.  If you like the N6 pro, you will absolutely love these.  They are not quite as detailed but they make up for it in tonality. 

The rest of the package is compelling.  The build quality is superb.  They are metal and feel weighty and high quality.  Fit is fine.  Using stock medium tips plus the largest stabilizers.  They are comfortable and seem secure.  In addition to the ridiculously good sq, they have ANC.  Only negative so far is some hiss in the left bud at no volume which quickly disappears once the volume goes up and they don't support Aptx or Samsung's scaleable codec.  I am using an S20 over AAC.

For $200, these are a bargain.  They blow away anything in that price range. Can't believe these haven't garnered more attention to date.


----------



## FYLegend

HeadphoneAddict said:


> Weird, because the Gbuds+ tips are some fo the few tips that DO NOT make my ears itch.
> 
> I don't do anything with audio on my Lenova Yoga 720 laptop, which is only for lightweight traveling mail and browsing when I don't want to take a big 16" laptop in my carry on bag. I have my MacBook Bluetooth Explorer App set to force using AptX or to use AAC over SBC, and it works pretty well with never using SBC. So, Gbuds+ work fine for me without SBC and I have not had an issue with volume gradually decreasing.


Just wondering what colour version do you have? Mine is cloud blue and comes with clear tips.

Using AAC on my Note 9 sound fine but I've also read some complaints that OnePlus devices restrict the bitrate to 160kbps when using AAC.

The ambient feed seems to be adaptive rather than constant but it is not very noticeable otherwise. The volume only decreases if you are doing an activity that you will notice it like playing the piano. If exposed to a very loud sound like clapping directly into the earbud, they will remain at a lower volume then they were initially - re-inserting the buds restarts it.


----------



## jasonb

FYLegend said:


> Using AAC on my Note 9 sound fine but I've also read some complaints that OnePlus devices restrict the bitrate to 160kbps when using AAC.



I've never read this, but that would explain why I didn't like my old Galaxy Buds anymore after I switched from a Pixel 3a to a OnePlus 7T. I don't have the Galaxy Buds anymore but the wf1000xm3 that I have now using AAC sound great on a Pixel 3a. Yes, I went from a 3a to a 7T, then back to a 3a again.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

FYLegend said:


> Just wondering what colour version do you have? Mine is cloud blue and comes with clear tips.
> 
> Using AAC on my Note 9 sound fine but I've also read some complaints that OnePlus devices restrict the bitrate to 160kbps when using AAC.
> 
> The ambient feed seems to be adaptive rather than constant but it is not very noticeable otherwise. The volume only decreases if you are doing an activity that you will notice it like playing the piano. If exposed to a very loud sound like clapping directly into the earbud, they will remain at a lower volume then they were initially - re-inserting the buds restarts it.



I went black - I usually like a stealth look.  Does the lower audio volume after a loud noise only happen if ambient mode is on, but doesn't happen when it's off?


----------



## RemoGaggi

Fiil T1x & Haylou GT1 Plus.  I been listening extensively to both head to head and after many hours of listening, I really like both, but I've come to the conclusion that I prefer the sound of the GT1 Plus.  It is so natural and balanced sounding.  It's musicality and ability to convey the energy and emotions of the musicians is incredible.  I like the T1x, but the GT1 Plus is my favorite right now.


----------



## VICosPhi

Enjoying my Jabra 75t which sound great once you reduce the bass and increase mid-range in the EQ. The flush fit and tiny charging case really make a big difference! 

Looking forward to getting the Technics TWS which should be released mid-July, they lack APTX but AAC doesn't sound so bad on 75t with my Galaxy Note, plus they have a Graphene driver and initial reviews seem to be good. The case is bulky though and they don't sit flush in the ear.


----------



## Uzirox

FYLegend said:


> Anyways, has anyone here tried TOZO NC9? Finally a budget TWS ANC that has USB-C, volume controls ambient mode.



Wow. Interesting.


----------



## tgx78 (Jun 28, 2020)

RemoGaggi said:


> Fiil T1x & Haylou GT1 Plus.  I been listening extensively to both head to head and after many hours of listening, I really like both, but I've come to the conclusion that I prefer the sound of the GT1 Plus.  It is so natural and balanced sounding.  It's musicality and ability to convey the energy and emotions of the musicians is incredible.  I like the T1x, but the GT1 Plus is my favorite right now.



That is my observation as well. I wrote here in Feb. "Gotta thank whoever recommended Haylou GT1 plus as I have been enjoying its sound signature immensely. Very organic and natural tone with really good forward projection for TWS. I like it more than FIIL T1X or the tronsmart spunky beats."


----------



## DynamicEars

tgx78 said:


> That is my observation as well. I wrote here in Feb. "Gotta thank whoever recommended Haylou GT1 plus as I have been enjoying its sound signature immensely. Very organic and natural tone with really good forward projection for TWS. I like it more than FIIL T1X or the tronsmart spunky beats."



I was the lab rabbit on GT1 plus, even though i dont have experience with TWS but i've been using IEM everyday since more than 10 years ago so they must be something. I even tag @Bartig few months back, i even surprised they just starting to  get popularity half year after


----------



## DynamicEars

Ohh it was back on early January!



DynamicEars said:


> Anyone tried this new Haylou GT1 plus? not to be confused with GT1 only / Pro / GT2 because this is the newest from haylou with new 7.2 bio cellulose driver  (the other haylou using standard 6mm DD) and Qualcomm Qcc2020 with APTX and cost only $25~ish. Both unit connected to phone directly like QCY T5, not using old master-slave tech. IPX5 rated.
> 
> I'm not an expert in TWS world, but I have QCY T5  and T1c/QS2.
> They sounded very balance, with touch of sub bass and gentle mid bass, a bit forward midrange, but no emphasize on high mids especially 3khz like T5. T5 sounded a bit thin compared to these, and this set have more details and sounded more mature / smoother. And i was surprised to hear the soundstage and imaging from $25 set, wireless.
> ...


----------



## webvan

Caipirina said:


> I received a bunch of new toys today, among them these 2 very different *Edifier* models.
> Can you guess which one I find way more exciting and which one goes back?



The "ugly ones" have more features so possibly more exciting


----------



## Caipirina (Jun 28, 2020)

webvan said:


> The "ugly ones" have more features so possibly more exciting


Valid reasoning, but no .. keeping the X3 .. out of the box they were already pretty wow. Now with even better fitting tips and connected via AptX to my V1 Tempotec player ... very nice!
The ANC ones ... boy, they do stick out, way more than Bose SSF and the XM3s combined! They are also rather 'eh' in sound and the ANC is ... double 'eh' ...

and well, amazon 'trapped' me into pre-ordering the Sony SPoon, errr, I mean SP800N ... supposed to arrive on Wednesday and let's see if I can get a better fit with them


----------



## webvan

Amazon in Europe don't appear to be delivering the SP800n until July 6th...I was vaguely tempted until I read about the poor fit problems, a Sony classic ! Having said that the Bomaker SiFi II are among the best fitting and isolating TWEs I've ever had and they don't work for others so who knows !

Can't see the X3 on Amazon butafter the SiFi II I'm happy to see what looks like a trend towards "meatier" TWEs that actually stay in your ear and provide good passive isolation...


----------



## Caipirina

webvan said:


> Amazon in Europe don't appear to be delivering the SP800n until July 6th...







Well, let's see if they stick to this ...  and I am fully commited to send them back if I can't get a decent fit ... problem I had with the SP700N, but I ended up using them without the wings, and the sound is pretty good, the ANC did not deserved the name though .. here is hope the 800 work better with my ears ...


----------



## jant71

I want to see the SP800 and AE5T compared. The JVC doesn't have NC but interested to see a SQ, fit, and wind noise comparison. The JVC "AERO" design has worked quite well and wind noise is really minimal. I don't need the NC and got the JVC which is a runners earphone and more about outside but I can see if you are inside in the gym one may want noise cancelling. I guess they might do better at each others intended purpose. Shame my Sony A26 transmits in aptX but the SP800 would only do SBC with it.


----------



## hifi80sman

jant71 said:


> I want to see the SP800 and AE5T compared. The JVC doesn't have NC but interested to see a SQ, fit, and wind noise comparison. The JVC "AERO" design has worked quite well and wind noise is really minimal. I don't need the NC and got the JVC which is a runners earphone and more about outside but I can see if you are inside in the gym one may want noise cancelling. I guess they might do better at each others intended purpose. Shame my Sony A26 transmits in aptX but the SP800 would only do SBC with it.


Agreed.  I'm not a runner of cyclist, but I do workout at the gym and the SP800N works great for that.  The ANC is certainly better than the SP700N, which was fairly mild and similar to ANC in the original 1000X.


----------



## BobJS

clerkpalmer said:


> The AKG N400 is seriously awesome.  Although Crinancle hated on MW07 (my favorites to date) I have to agree with him on these.  The tuning is stellar.  It's tuned for an audiophile sound - balanced, crisp and nothing overwhelms but they are very musical.  There is some bass boost so they thump nicely but it is not v-shaped.  If you like the N6 pro, you will absolutely love these.  They are not quite as detailed but they make up for it in tonality.
> 
> The rest of the package is compelling.  The build quality is superb.  They are metal and feel weighty and high quality.  Fit is fine.  Using stock medium tips plus the largest stabilizers.  They are comfortable and seem secure.  In addition to the ridiculously good sq, they have ANC.  Only negative so far is some hiss in the left bud at no volume which quickly disappears once the volume goes up and they don't support Aptx or Samsung's scaleable codec.  I am using an S20 over AAC.
> 
> For $200, these are a bargain.  They blow away anything in that price range. Can't believe these haven't garnered more attention to date.



No aptx ?  Couldn't find that anywhere.


----------



## mattmiller

Fully wireless sounds amazing, although that is not an alternative for me. I am jealous, i have to settle with my wireless earphones for running and i will keep the professional equipment fully wired for a long time.


----------



## clerkpalmer (Jun 28, 2020)

BobJS said:


> No aptx ?  Couldn't find that anywhere.


No Aptx. Seems odd but AAC is onboard. A few new gremlins to report. The hiss static in the left bud is bothersome. I cant tell of its electronic interference in my house or a problem with the buds so I ordered an exchange on Amazon to compare. It does seem to come and go so maybe interference but my other buds don't do that. I will report back. Also the charging case died on me and I learned that the buds will not turn back on until you plug the case in. These types of charging case issues really should have been solved by now. That said, they still sound sweet. The big test will be wind noise on the bike.


----------



## clerkpalmer

Caipirina said:


> Well, let's see if they stick to this ...  and I am fully commited to send them back if I can't get a decent fit ... problem I had with the SP700N, but I ended up using them without the wings, and the sound is pretty good, the ANC did not deserved the name though .. here is hope the 800 work better with my ears ...


I have no fit issues with mine and I tend to have issues with fit. They are stable and comfortable with stock tips for me.


----------



## SavoryTruffle

Been researching Wireless IEM for the past couple of days. Read a good chunk of this thread and still don't feel like I'm that much closer to reliably being able to choose something than when I started. So I figured I'd make this post before I finally choose a couple of options to buy with return potential.

I've been using Klipsch Image S4 for as long as I can remember. I think I've gone through five or so pairs of them, with a replacement every couple of years as they seem to reliably die around that time. I don't remember the specific models of the alternatives I've tried but I know there was a $200 Shure IEM, a $300 Etymotic IEM, a few different Bose options, and I vaguely remember Ultimate Ears and Beats at some point. All of these were wired. I remember liking the Shure quite a bit, although not as much as the Klispch I ended up with. While I was impressed by the Etymotic, it wasn't really the sound I was looking for and I had major issues with the comfort of the included tips. I hated all the others.

The main thing I'm looking for, and the reason why I've defaulted to the Klipsch S4 all these years, is decent sound separation together with a slightly warm signature. I primarily listen to music that is both complicated in terms of composition and instrument type/quantity and driven by strong energy. Most of what I read suggests that most options (and this is true of cheaper headphones in general) either have more of a balanced sound signature with a potential for strong separation or are heavy on bass to the detriment of clarity. I'm not interested in either/or considering I currently have the option to stick with what I know I enjoy. I will happily accept some weaknesses in how single instruments sound in order to get a degree of separation I find reasonable, however. That's more or less the tradeoff I'm already making with the Klipsch S4.

Anyway, this is long so I'll get to the main point/question.

Does anyone have experience listening to both something along the lines of the S4 (or the Klipsch sound in general) and something along the lines of the Master and Dynamic MW07? The latter seems like one of the only options where the descriptions I'm reading match the sound I'm looking for. I know Klipsch themselves make a True Wireless IEM but they changed their physical design starting with the S6 and they no longer fit my ears whatsoever. I'm worried about trying the T5 out due to similarities, especially since the only brick and mortar store around that carries them isn't accepting returns right now due to Covid. Other recommendations are appreciated, of course.


----------



## Bobbetybob

Caipirina said:


> Valid reasoning, but no .. keeping the X3 .. out of the box they were already pretty wow. Now with even better fitting tips and connected via AptX to my V1 Tempotec player ... very nice!
> The ANC ones ... boy, they do stick out, way more than Bose SSF and the XM3s combined! They are also rather 'eh' in sound and the ANC is ... double 'eh' ...
> 
> and well, amazon 'trapped' me into pre-ordering the Sony SPoon, errr, I mean SP800N ... supposed to arrive on Wednesday and let's see if I can get a better fit with them


So do the X3 actually accept bigger tips in the case or is it another small case with no room?


----------



## assassin10000 (Jun 28, 2020)

SavoryTruffle said:


> Been researching Wireless IEM for the past couple of days. Read a good chunk of this thread and still don't feel like I'm that much closer to reliably being able to choose something than when I started. So I figured I'd make this post before I finally choose a couple of options to buy with return potential.
> 
> I've been using Klipsch Image S4 for as long as I can remember. I think I've gone through five or so pairs of them, with a replacement every couple of years as they seem to reliably die around that time. I don't remember the specific models of the alternatives I've tried but I know there was a $200 Shure IEM, a $300 Etymotic IEM, a few different Bose options, and I vaguely remember Ultimate Ears and Beats at some point. All of these were wired. I remember liking the Shure quite a bit, although not as much as the Klispch I ended up with. While I was impressed by the Etymotic, it wasn't really the sound I was looking for and I had major issues with the comfort of the included tips. I hated all the others.
> 
> ...



What genres of music? Energetic and complicated could be metal, edm, etc.

My personal favorite are my Air-XR. Good bass quantity but not overwhelming (as I found the L2P to be, and both more and better than the buds+/xm3 IMO). Good highs, really good vocals/mids and for me clear and clean with good tonality. Has some warmth I find the others I've tried are lacking but not to the point it overshadows anything.


----------



## axhng (Jun 28, 2020)

tgx78 said:


> That is my observation as well. I wrote here in Feb. "Gotta thank whoever recommended Haylou GT1 plus as I have been enjoying its sound signature immensely. Very organic and natural tone with really good forward projection for TWS. I like it more than FIIL T1X or the tronsmart spunky beats."



same for me. ever since i got it back in earlier February, it has been one of my favourites till this day. I haven't tried the FIIL T1X, but in terms of the stock tuning, I like it more than a few more expensive options I've tried like the Galaxy Buds, Lypertek Tevi, Melomania 1. Also like it more than the very similar Soundpeats TrueDot (qcc3020 version) which was a bit warm for my taste. Though I really wish the volume could go a bit louder though, and after a few months of use, i'm not sure if i'm imagining things, but the connection doesn't seems as stable as it was. Also i noticed depending on which side of the earbuds I was using as the master, the max volume is a little different. Maybe it's a QCC3020 thing.






I'm also still enjoying the KZ Z1 which has a way more dynamic sound. The bass on that thing might be excessive to some, but it works great for me while I'm jogging. Then at home i just tone down the bass a bit. The Ugreen HiTune I got recently has been growing on me too with its full and slightly warm sound. Very pleasing to listen to both at home while chilling or when jogging when I turn up the volume. Just enough of an upper mids boost to make brighter vocals stand out but never too shouty. Not as spacious or as detailed sounding as the GT1 Plus I think, but enjoyable in its own way, and volume output is higher than the GT1 Plus. I think the tuning should be similar to the CM338 which Bartig reviewed though I've not tried that. It is a bit more expensive, but it has aptx, usb-c charging, battery life is decent (~6 hours at 70-75% volume using aptx), and the case (which is only slightly bigger than the GT1 Plus) provides around 2 extra charges. Though sadly no volume controls. Overall, not the best sounding, but decent enough that I would still consider it a well rounded package.


----------



## RemoGaggi

tgx78 said:


> That is my observation as well. I wrote here in Feb. "Gotta thank whoever recommended Haylou GT1 plus as I have been enjoying its sound signature immensely. Very organic and natural tone with really good forward projection for TWS. I like it more than FIIL T1X or the tronsmart spunky beats."


The only thing I don't like about the GT1 Plus is the connectivity.  They tend to unpair from each other during listening and I'll lose the right side.  I have to put them back in the box for a few seconds and then start over.  I've reset them several times, but the connectivity to each other and BT has always been shaky.  With regards to the BT connectivity, it's just OK at best.  I can't stray too far from the signal or the BT connection will start to cut out.  With the T1x, I can probably stray nearly twice as far away.  Also, the T1x connect to the BT so fast, it happens before I can get them in my ears.  If only the GT1 Plus had the connectivity of the T1x, it would be awesome.....


----------



## SavoryTruffle

assassin10000 said:


> What genres of music? Energetic and complicated could be metal, edm, etc.
> 
> My personal favorite are my Air-XR. Good bass quantity but not overwhelming (as I found the L2P to be, and both more and better than the buds+/xm3 IMO). Good highs, really good vocals/mids and for me clear and clean with good tonality. Has some warmth I find the others I've tried are lacking but not to the point it overshadows anything.


 
Generally metal and edm, yeah.

I need something that can handle the wide variance of instruments often found in progressive and symphonic metal, while still having the energy for power metal and (slightly) more mainstream hard rock. My edm tastes are a bit more specific though. I don't really care for the kind of bass you might associate with club thump, bass drops, or more broadly the dance/club part of edm. For the most part, a sound that works with symphonic metal is also going to work with more classically inspired edm like BT and the power metal sound is going to work with more intense synthwave like Carpenter Brut.

I do listen to quite a bit outside of those genres, but most of it is still pretty busy all things considered. Something like the symphonic metal sound is still likely to work better with the pop music that I listen to than the more common vocal centric sound often associated with it. Hell, even the softer stuff I listen to like math rock is well above the mainstream standard for complexity.

Do you mean the Mavin Air-XR? $120 on amazon right now. I'd prefer to try something I can get brick and mortar with a strong return policy first, but I've bookmarked it in case I give up on the mainstream options.


----------



## FYLegend

Bartig said:


> These are more comfortable to me than the SoundPEATS Truebuds and TrueAir, as they are more mininal around the stem. I can hang them in my ears and not notice them after a while.
> 
> 
> Well, there are half-in-ears that put through more surrounding noises, so I guess this has a relative okay noise isolation for half-in-ears. However, I guess they mean active noise reduction during phone calls. And yes - it does that. You may have to warn people with these that you're still on the line. That's how silent surrounding noises can be during calls. Really impressive.
> ...


Any issues with distortion? I saw some reviews (can't remember who exactly) that mentioned them crackling at higher volumes. Maybe they got duds though.



HeadphoneAddict said:


> I went black - I usually like a stealth look.  Does the lower audio volume after a loud noise only happen if ambient mode is on, but doesn't happen when it's off?


I wonder if the black eartips are made of a better material compared to the lighter ones with other versions, but they still seem transluscent though. For wired IEMs in the past, Audio-Technica tips were my go-to but when I bought clear instead of black ones, they seemed more firm and difficult to initially install onto IEMs. 

I'm referring to the ambient sound feed, not the volume of the audio itself. Actually, having the volume of music ducking slightly according to ambient sound volume would be pretty cool a pretty cool option to have. I find it cumbersome I either have to turn down the volume significantly (on the Buds+) or have it decrease too much by default (on the Aufo M1). It's a shame the Buds+ don't have the quick attention mode of the original Galaxy Buds or Sony products.


----------



## clerkpalmer

SavoryTruffle said:


> Been researching Wireless IEM for the past couple of days. Read a good chunk of this thread and still don't feel like I'm that much closer to reliably being able to choose something than when I started. So I figured I'd make this post before I finally choose a couple of options to buy with return potential.
> 
> I've been using Klipsch Image S4 for as long as I can remember. I think I've gone through five or so pairs of them, with a replacement every couple of years as they seem to reliably die around that time. I don't remember the specific models of the alternatives I've tried but I know there was a $200 Shure IEM, a $300 Etymotic IEM, a few different Bose options, and I vaguely remember Ultimate Ears and Beats at some point. All of these were wired. I remember liking the Shure quite a bit, although not as much as the Klispch I ended up with. While I was impressed by the Etymotic, it wasn't really the sound I was looking for and I had major issues with the comfort of the included tips. I hated all the others.
> 
> ...



I used to rock the s4 back in the day. Those were great iems. I used them running and in the gym. I think you would be very satisfied with the mw07 coming from the s4. The mw07 is an upgrade in sq for sure even though they are wireless.


----------



## assassin10000 (Jun 28, 2020)

SavoryTruffle said:


> Generally metal and edm, yeah.
> 
> I need something that can handle the wide variance of instruments often found in progressive and symphonic metal, while still having the energy for power metal and (slightly) more mainstream hard rock. My edm tastes are a bit more specific though. I don't really care for the kind of bass you might associate with club thump, bass drops, or more broadly the dance/club part of edm. For the most part, a sound that works with symphonic metal is also going to work with more classically inspired edm like BT and the power metal sound is going to work with more intense synthwave like Carpenter Brut.
> 
> ...



I listen to more vocal trance and melodic style edm. Most of the heavier club style I skip as well. I like a more sub-bass and bass focus, with a lesser amount of mid-bass.

Similar to using a good speaker setup and a subwoofer with a low pass crossover. More clean sounding. Less resonance and more depth, if that makes sense.


----------



## jasonb

So I've been trying the wf1000xm3 with the Wavelet Android app with the autoEQ. I definitely like what it does. It even makes them sound better with the Dekoni Bulletz foam tips.


----------



## SavoryTruffle

clerkpalmer said:


> I used to rock the s4 back in the day. Those were great iems. I used them running and in the gym. I think you would be very satisfied with the mw07 coming from the s4. The mw07 is an upgrade in sq for sure even though they are wireless.



It's looking like I'll be trying out the mw07 go. Can't find much in the way of obvious mainstream alternatives. If they don't work out I might just go with either Galaxy Buds or Hifiman 600 (mostly because they're cheap-ish) for wireless and stick with wired when I care more about sound.


----------



## clerkpalmer

SavoryTruffle said:


> It's looking like I'll be trying out the mw07 go. Can't find much in the way of obvious mainstream alternatives. If they don't work out I might just go with either Galaxy Buds or Hifiman 600 (mostly because they're cheap-ish) for wireless and stick with wired when I care more about sound.


You might consider the AKG n400 for 200 on amazon. Compared to the mw07 they are less warm and colored. Less v shaped more balanced. They are my new favorites. You can't go wrong either way. The AKG have ANC and support AAC but not aptx. The Go has no ANC, aptx but no AAC.


----------



## clerkpalmer

SavoryTruffle said:


> and stick with wired when I care more about sound.


I think you'll pleasantly surprised by the sq of the true wireless.  It won't be a downgrade from the s4. Wireless has come a long way.  That said at my desk, I go wired.


----------



## jasonb

clerkpalmer said:


> I think you'll pleasantly surprised by the sq of the true wireless.  It won't be a downgrade from the s4. Wireless has come a long way.  That said at my desk, I go wired.



True Wireless can be great for just enjoying the music.


----------



## chinmie

axhng said:


> Also i noticed depending on which side of the earbuds I was using as the master, the max volume is a little different. Maybe it's a QCC3020 thing



QCC3020 TWSs does that, each unit (left and right) has different pairing names to the phone, and the phone see each of them as a different BT unit depending on which one's making the connection and act as the master.. so both L and R have individual volume memory of their own. 



SavoryTruffle said:


> It's looking like I'll be trying out the mw07 go. Can't find much in the way of obvious mainstream alternatives. If they don't work out I might just go with either Galaxy Buds or Hifiman 600 (mostly because they're cheap-ish) for wireless and stick with wired when I care more about sound.



i used to think that, but in my own experience, nowadays wired only "technically" would give better and less noisy signal when connected to dedicated headphone /earphone amps, and be using higher form of sound file. 

if only plugging the wired earphones to a phone jack and listening to streaming music, it's a toss up, and many TWSs would actually sound cleaner.


----------



## bedlamite

Those N400s starting to look good. The comparisons with the Galaxy Buds+ are obvious, seeing how Samsung is AKG's parent company. So the 400s are basically audiophile Buds+ with so-so ANC and poorer software, am I getting this right?


----------



## clerkpalmer

bedlamite said:


> Those N400s starting to look good. The comparisons with the Galaxy Buds+ are obvious, seeing how Samsung is AKG's parent company. So the 400s are basically audiophile Buds+ with so-so ANC and poorer software, am I getting this right?


I cant comment on the Buds plus. ANC seems fine. Not apple or Sony level but as good as m&d and sennheiser. The app works well. The gestures are hit and miss. Definitely not a perfect product on the software side but the sq and hardware are top notch. If it were my money, I would buy them over the mw07 GO for about the same price but both would be excellent. Could always try both and send one back.


----------



## bedlamite

clerkpalmer said:


> I cant comment on the Buds plus. ANC seems fine. Not apple or Sony level but as good as m&d and sennheiser. The app works well. The gestures are hit and miss. Definitely not a perfect product on the software side but the sq and hardware are top notch. If it were my money, I would buy them over the mw07 GO for about the same price but both would be excellent. Could always try both and send one back.


Yeah, put in an order for a pair of the navys. We'll see how these go.


----------



## clerkpalmer

bedlamite said:


> Yeah, put in an order for a pair of the navys. We'll see how these go.


Cool. I got the silver they are quite fetching.


----------



## Jellymang

Anyone have a recommendation for TWS with really small profile? I was recommended the Tronsmart Spunky Beats and they are the perfect size but the connection strength is very weak with frequent drops (maybe I just got a dud?). So something really similar in size would be good or anything that is quite small, preferably <$50 but open to suggestions. 

I was recommended the Treblab XFit, Mavin Air-X, Samsung Galaxy Buds, Mifo 07 as small; if anyone can attest to those vs. Spunky Beats size that'd be awesome too


----------



## Hyperfluxe (Jun 29, 2020)

Caveat: I haven't revisited this thread in months, so I still need to read the last 30 or so pages of this thread to get a general idea of the current landscape. I might already have made a decision by the time I'm done skimming over those pages. That being said, here goes:

My Sennheiser MTW TWS 2.0 (which I've been using for nearly 3 weeks now) arrived late via the Amazon CA Fulfilment Center, so I still have another 15 days left to return them for a full refund.

Is it worth upgrading to the new MW07+ given that they're the same price in CAD? I use TWS Bluetooth IEMs only for training (full home gym powerlifting setup) or activities requiring arm mobility (since I can't reach for my phone + wired IEMs). So far, from what I gather, SQ is better on the MW07+ but ANC isn't good. Also, I don't think I need the MW07 Go because I don't do excessive aerobic activity, it's heavily anaerobic since this is my competitve sport. In other words, I don't sweat much, just heavy squats/bench/deadlifts with 15 mins daily LISS low-impact cardio on a Rogue EchoBike. Streaming is done with my LG V60 with LDAC playback using Tidal or Spotify.

I use my FiiO FH7 on the go with an LG V60 when I can freely access my phone. No USB DAC/amp dongle is required on any LG phones given their TOTL ESS Sabre DACs and 3.5mm audio jack. At home I've been using the same FiiO FH7 IEM with a FiiO BTR5 amp (in USB wired mode with my 2020 Dell XPS 17). I have a pair of Fostex TH-900 closed backs on their way which will be my first pair of mid-range headphones.

I primarily listen to extreme Metal subgenres (Black, Death, Doom, Thrash, etc.) and DnB (Neurofunk, liquid, techstepm drumstep). Here's a long post I made in the Metal headphones megathread the other day, my Last.FM profile, and my Soundcloud profile for reference. Cheers.

Edit: I forgot to mention that I initially had connectivity issues with my MTW 2.0, even with the latest firmware, but it's been smooth sailing ever since that isolated incident. Not sure what the issue was but I heard it's common with earlier firmware versions of the app. Also, I've tired the Sony WF1000XM3 and Galaxy Buds+, wasn't the biggest fan.


----------



## SavoryTruffle

clerkpalmer said:


> You might consider the AKG n400 for 200 on amazon. Compared to the mw07 they are less warm and colored. Less v shaped more balanced. They are my new favorites. You can't go wrong either way. The AKG have ANC and support AAC but not aptx. The Go has no ANC, aptx but no AAC.



I've heard good things about the sound but there are a few things that make me hesitate. I don't want to go through amazon until I exhaust my brick and mortar options, for one. Second, the (initial) battery life is the minimum I would consider, and below what I really want. Charging via the case isn't really relevant for my purposes. Third, I do not want active noise cancellation (as in forced ANC would be a dealbreaker) and I've heard enough about other IEM with ANC being weird that I'm not big on taking a chance here. Finally, the $200 price point is about where I'd have to be really super happy to be willing to pay. The main reason I mentioned the Galaxy Buds is because the original can be gotten around closer to $100. 

The reason I would still consider wired isn't because I expect that they're all better. It's because there's just so many more options at so many more price points. Honestly, if I wasn't specifically looking to upgrade to wireless I would've probably just blind bought a pair of Moondrop Starfield and called it a day. There doesn't seem to be a similar 'default' choice for wireless.

(I think my phrasing did imply that I think wired have inherently better sound. I have no idea how wireless sound these days. What I meant was that I would still consider a cheap wireless iem for general home use even if I spent more on a wired iem specifically for music.)


----------



## bedlamite

SavoryTruffle said:


> ...if I wasn't specifically looking to upgrade to wireless I would've probably just blind bought a pair of Moondrop Starfield and called it a day.


Since you bring this up, the TRN BT20s is a low profile BT adaptor that'll convert the Starfields into TWs. I have like 4 units that I mix and match with various wired IEMs and they've never let me down. I've plugged in cheap KZ IEMs and an iBasso IT-03 and they've all worked brilliantly.

If you still want a proper TWS, I agree, it's a saturated market. Best to start with a budget and whittle down your options from there.


----------



## Caipirina

Bobbetybob said:


> So do the X3 actually accept bigger tips in the case or is it another small case with no room?


Will try to check


----------



## Caipirina

Jellymang said:


> Anyone have a recommendation for TWS with really small profile? I was recommended the Tronsmart Spunky Beats and they are the perfect size but the connection strength is very weak with frequent drops (maybe I just got a dud?). So something really similar in size would be good or anything that is quite small, preferably <$50 but open to suggestions.
> 
> I was recommended the Treblab XFit, Mavin Air-X, Samsung Galaxy Buds, Mifo 07 as small; if anyone can attest to those vs. Spunky Beats size that'd be awesome too


Edifier x3, small buds and tiny case! Sound great


----------



## Caipirina

Bobbetybob said:


> So do the X3 actually accept bigger tips in the case or is it another small case with no room?




i tried with KZs ‘Star’ tips, which have the middle stem not as recessed as the (light grey) originals that came with the X3. This makes the whole bud longer, but they still fit in the case! I don’t recommend this though, as the x3 have longish stems to start with.


----------



## assassin10000 (Jun 29, 2020)

Jellymang said:


> Anyone have a recommendation for TWS with really small profile? I was recommended the Tronsmart Spunky Beats and they are the perfect size but the connection strength is very weak with frequent drops (maybe I just got a dud?). So something really similar in size would be good or anything that is quite small, preferably <$50 but open to suggestions.
> 
> I was recommended the Treblab XFit, Mavin Air-X, Samsung Galaxy Buds, Mifo 07 as small; if anyone can attest to those vs. Spunky Beats size that'd be awesome too



Could be source as well. My older phone was 4.2 and there was a decent signal strength improvement with my newer phone that has 5.0

Size wise, the original bomaker sifi, anbes 359/kissrael k18 and some others. Just look for that bean shaped TWS and UFO shaped case, then check sound reviews. 

There are also the other Tronsmart TWS but I haven't held or heard them.


I have the Air-XR and they are also smaller TWS in length and height but they are 1.5x to 2x as thick. So not comfortable for side sleeping like the Spunky Beats.

I just sold my Buds+. They are also about 1.5x as thick and are a bit taller (due to their rounded triangle shape). They also weren't comfortable for side sleeping.




SavoryTruffle said:


> I've heard good things about the sound but there are a few things that make me hesitate. I don't want to go through amazon until I exhaust my brick and mortar options, for one. Second, the (initial) battery life is the minimum I would consider, and below what I really want. Charging via the case isn't really relevant for my purposes. Third, I do not want active noise cancellation (as in forced ANC would be a dealbreaker) and I've heard enough about other IEM with ANC being weird that I'm not big on taking a chance here. Finally, the $200 price point is about where I'd have to be really super happy to be willing to pay. The main reason I mentioned the Galaxy Buds is because the original can be gotten around closer to $100.
> 
> The reason I would still consider wired isn't because I expect that they're all better. It's because there's just so many more options at so many more price points. Honestly, if I wasn't specifically looking to upgrade to wireless I would've probably just blind bought a pair of Moondrop Starfield and called it a day. There doesn't seem to be a similar 'default' choice for wireless.
> 
> (I think my phrasing did imply that I think wired have inherently better sound. I have no idea how wireless sound these days. What I meant was that I would still consider a cheap wireless iem for general home use even if I spent more on a wired iem specifically for music.)



The regular Buds may be more to my liking than the Buds+, which I just sold. IIRC they are a lesser 'V' shaped harman tuning. I haven't heard the original Buds, so I can't say.




bedlamite said:


> Since you bring this up, the TRN BT20s is a low profile BT adaptor that'll convert the Starfields into TWs. I have like 4 units that I mix and match with various wired IEMs and they've never let me down. I've plugged in cheap KZ IEMs and an iBasso IT-03 and they've all worked brilliantly.
> 
> If you still want a proper TWS, I agree, it's a saturated market. Best to start with a budget and whittle down your options from there.



Always a good option. There is also the Fiio UTWS1 version that adds volume control (and supposedly a little less hiss/gain) vs the BT20S.

If you don't need APT-X, are ok with AAC and don't need loud volume levels then the BT20 is good.


I just ordered some T2 plus' that will be tried with my BT20S.


----------



## Anden

Darkestred said:


> Didnt see this anywhere but the Sony WF-SP800N are on sale at bestbuy and amazon for $168.
> 
> Amazon: https://tinyurl.com/y987h7fy
> Bestbuy:  https://tinyurl.com/y8ruvs4x


I just gotta jump in and say I love your profile picture. That album "A snow capped romance" was one of my absolute favourites when I was a teenager. Still listen to it from time to time.


----------



## Ultrainferno

Today we review the Fostex TM2 wireless system:
https://www.headfonia.com/fostex-tm2-review/

Enjoy!


----------



## Bobbetybob

Caipirina said:


> i tried with KZs ‘Star’ tips, which have the middle stem not as recessed as the (light grey) originals that came with the X3. This makes the whole bud longer, but they still fit in the case! I don’t recommend this though, as the x3 have longish stems to start with.


Cheers for that, haven't seen them from that angle, you're right the stems do look a decent length. Pulled the trigger anyway, they're silly cheap on Aliexpress at the moment and I like the look of the case size. Seems like I've got a new monthly tradition of buying cheap TWS when I get paid haha.


----------



## hifi80sman

Quick impressions with the MPOW M30 whilst listening to mostly 80s arena rock.

- Clarity is excellent.
- Borders sibilant, but still south for the most part.
- Mids are fairly even and vocals cut through the mix well.
- Slight low-bass emphasis, but sounds like the 400k-ish range is pulled back a bit.
- Touch controls work very well.  I'm a big fan of touch controls and these are one of the better implementations I've experienced.
- No driver flex noted.
- Comfortable and fit me right out of the box.  Most of the time, I have to use L tips, but these sit a little deeper.

Overall, a nice listen and VERY good for $29.  Pretty much a 100% recommendation at that price or even double.


----------



## FYLegend

clerkpalmer said:


> You might consider the AKG n400 for 200 on amazon. Compared to the mw07 they are less warm and colored. Less v shaped more balanced. They are my new favorites. You can't go wrong either way. The AKG have ANC and support AAC but not aptx. The Go has no ANC, aptx but no AAC.


Just curious how is the SBC sound quality on the N400? With untweaked settings, it is borderline atrocious on the Buds+.

I saw one post on Reddit saying the GO now supports AAC. Not sure if it is a hardware upgrade in newer units or a firmware update though. Always consider it somewhat a dick move to lock out a codec to make things seem more budget-level, as I've read Audio-Technica does on the ATH-CK3TW (no AAC) or Jabra with the 75t (chip is capable of AptX but they don't support it).


----------



## clerkpalmer

FYLegend said:


> Just curious how is the SBC sound quality on the N400? With untweaked settings, it is borderline atrocious on the Buds+.
> 
> I saw one post on Reddit saying the GO now supports AAC. Not sure if it is a hardware upgrade in newer units or a firmware update though. Always consider it somewhat a dick move to lock out a codec to make things seem more budget-level, as I've read Audio-Technica does on the ATH-CK3TW (no AAC) or Jabra with the 75t (chip is capable of AptX but they don't support it).


Haven't tried it but i will. As far as the go, M&D did say they would unlock AAC somehow but offered no details. Has to be a hardware change and probably hard to figure out if you get one with or without.


----------



## clerkpalmer

Hyperfluxe said:


> Caveat: I haven't revisited this thread in months, so I still need to read the last 30 or so pages of this thread to get a general idea of the current landscape. I might already have made a decision by the time I'm done skimming over those pages. That being said, here goes:
> 
> My Sennheiser MTW TWS 2.0 (which I've been using for nearly 3 weeks now) arrived late via the Amazon CA Fulfilment Center, so I still have another 15 days left to return them for a full refund.
> 
> ...


To my ears the mw07 and mtw2 are pretty close in overall sq. I actually prefer the fit on the senns and the senns have an eq to take some of the bass muddiness out. You might prefer the tonality of the mw07 but that's really a preference thing. I slightly prefer the mw07 sq but the senn is the better package right now assuming price is the same.


----------



## Zeros

Caipirina said:


> i tried with KZs ‘Star’ tips, which have the middle stem not as recessed as the (light grey) originals that came with the X3. This makes the whole bud longer, but they still fit in the case! I don’t recommend this though, as the x3 have longish stems to start with.


Do you mind telling me what tips you are currently using on these?  I have a set on the way and am interested in changing the tips as well.  Thanks!


----------



## WesennTony

Jellymang said:


> Anyone have a recommendation for TWS with really small profile? I was recommended the Tronsmart Spunky Beats and they are the perfect size but the connection strength is very weak with frequent drops (maybe I just got a dud?). So something really similar in size would be good or anything that is quite small, preferably <$50 but open to suggestions.
> 
> I was recommended the Treblab XFit, Mavin Air-X, Samsung Galaxy Buds, Mifo 07 as small; if anyone can attest to those vs. Spunky Beats size that'd be awesome too


I'm also experimenting small buds for side sleeping. Not for music but podcast, so sq is not the first priority. So far Spunky beats are still the best, beating Bomaker Sifi, Mavin Air-X, Shanglin MTW, and some cheap single ear buds on Amazon. Also the sound signature of beats is quite helpful for sleeping if choosing good podcasts.


----------



## yakkosmurf

hifi80sman said:


> Have you tried the Sony WF-SP800N?  Those have some nice, textured bass.


I just picked up a pair of these to use as my new workout headphones. I had exactly the same thought about the bass response. Overal, I'm very pleased with the sound quality of them.


----------



## McCol

@HeadphoneAddict or anybody else that might still own both Senn MTW models.

Does the original case work for charging the new model?  As stated in an earler post, I lost my MTW2 case last week while cycling, Sennheiser are not yet selling replacement cases.  Was curios if the original case will work.


----------



## logiatype

turbobb said:


> Correct, and more so for the lesser known ChiFi units that often taken liberty when claiming features. Would also be helpful as we transition from BT 5.0 to 5.1 and especially 5.2. While Win10 does disclose the BT version, it's only for the Tx and not of the connected devices.



Nah I don't know of a workable way. You can do it in Linux but you'd need a working 5.0+ Tx and I don't think any USB dongles work with the Linux.


----------



## bronco1015

McCol said:


> @HeadphoneAddict or anybody else that might still own both Senn MTW models.
> 
> Does the original case work for charging the new model?  As stated in an earler post, I lost my MTW2 case last week while cycling, Sennheiser are not yet selling replacement cases.  Was curios if the original case will work.


That sucks about the case. while the 2nd gen case won't charge the OG MTW because the housings are larger, so they won't fit, the first gen  MTW case will indeed charge the MTW2.


----------



## Legislative

I bought three sets of TWS 18 months ago, the Anbes 359 (is that how they are spelled?), QCY QS2 and the Capsules. To me the Anbes won on comfort, sound quality, connection (never a single issue) and I love the usb-c connector so I can use the same charge leads as my phone.

Taking into consideration I want USB-C and I want something pretty cheap what upgrade would be worthwhile?


----------



## SavoryTruffle

assassin10000 said:


> Always a good option. There is also the Fiio UTWS1 version that adds volume control (and supposedly a little less hiss/gain) vs the BT20S.
> 
> If you don't need APT-X, are ok with AAC and don't need loud volume levels then the BT20 is good.
> 
> I just ordered some T2 plus' that will be tried with my BT20S.



I've heard great things about the UTWS1 but didn't follow up on them due to being a bit difficult to get right now. They do seem to have showed up on AliExpress at some point this weekend. No idea how reliable they are but they seem better than the (only) current amazon source at least. They're a little awkward looking (but so are many true wireless) and I'd be slightly worried about weight but I could see myself trying them out.

Volume level is my biggest concern with wireless. I've never considered myself someone who listens at loud volume levels. I remember walking around listening to early mp3 players coming out of high school ~15 years ago with volume sitting at 60% or so. But the trend has been to consistently reduce maximum volume on just about everything to the point that the norm is now to just instantly max everything. Add various (misguided) laws on top of that trend and I've found some headphones (and sources) straight up unlistenable. You can still obviously get super high unsafe volume by adding your own amp if you really want to. But I've been forced to add a Fiio A1 before just to make some stuff reasonable to begin with. I can't do that with wireless and it worries me.

Going to grab a pair of mw07 go today, provided Best Buy's listed stock count of two means they at least have one.


----------



## McCol

bronco1015 said:


> That sucks about the case. while the 2nd gen case won't charge the OG MTW because the housings are larger, so they won't fit, the first gen  MTW case will indeed charge the MTW2.


Thanks for that, I assume from your answer that you've tried?


----------



## bronco1015

McCol said:


> Thanks for that, I assume from your answer that you've tried?


Yes. a while back someone asked if the first gen MTW would charge in the new case, i didn't think so but i tried and they didn't fit as i figured they wouldn't. never did try charging the MTW2 in the first gen case, but when i saw your post i was sitting at my desk where both of them were, so it was easy to quickly check. And, i learned something new. But one thing i did think of after which you may be aware of, is that the case may drain, just like the first gen MTWs do. And the more  you can stabilize them the better, just cause they are smaller than first gen MTW. You'll probably get 1 full charge from the case, and some to spare.


----------



## RemoGaggi

Am I missing somehting?  Is there reason why an Ultra Violet case for your TWS is necessary if you're not sharing the earbuds with someone else?


----------



## Zeros

RemoGaggi said:


> Am I missing somehting?  Is there reason why an Ultra Violet case for your TWS is necessary if you're not sharing the earbuds with someone else?


Not that I know of.  Plus, who shares earbuds?  That's kinda eww to me hahah!


----------



## McCol

bronco1015 said:


> Yes. a while back someone asked if the first gen MTW would charge in the new case, i didn't think so but i tried and they didn't fit as i figured they wouldn't. never did try charging the MTW2 in the first gen case, but when i saw your post i was sitting at my desk where both of them were, so it was easy to quickly check. And, i learned something new. But one thing i did think of after which you may be aware of, is that the case may drain, just like the first gen MTWs do. And the more  you can stabilize them the better, just cause they are smaller than first gen MTW. You'll probably get 1 full charge from the case, and some to spare.


Cheers for that.
Going to give Sennheiser a week or two to see if they start selling the MTW2 cases, its kn their site but not selling yet.


----------



## Dcell7

Hiby joining the TWS game.


----------



## bronco1015

McCol said:


> Cheers for that.
> Going to give Sennheiser a week or two to see if they start selling the MTW2 cases, its kn their site but not selling yet.


no problem. yeah that is weird. I think i'd wait it out if it were me, because long term that first gen case is gonna wear out quicker, the battery i mean, and you'll probably want to get a 2nd gen case at some point anyway, if for no other reason than to have a case that can fully charge the MTW2 multiple times.


----------



## RemoGaggi

Zeros said:


> Not that I know of.  Plus, who shares earbuds?  That's kinda eww to me hahah!


Good.  I just got this from Linsoul in my email and I've seen some other brand have a UV case also.  I guess this is the new thing now.  https://mailchi.mp/6e97cc773c7e/order-your-tinhifi-t2000-now-9303070?e=8147af3c40


----------



## McCol

bronco1015 said:


> no problem. yeah that is weird. I think i'd wait it out if it were me, because long term that first gen case is gonna wear out quicker, the battery i mean, and you'll probably want to get a 2nd gen case at some point anyway, if for no other reason than to have a case that can fully charge the MTW2 multiple times.


I've stopped using them for now, probably down to about 50% battery. I'd rather have the 2nd gen case 
Luckily the M&D MW07plus arrived today!


----------



## Caipirina

Maybe  a good thing I was stuck in the middle of nowhere last week and missed all that M&D  partner40 hooooopla ..  
but I recall someone saying the MW07 GO can be found for 120$ ... 
may I ask WHERE??? 

I feel like I need one of those in my stable


----------



## TK33

Caipirina said:


> Maybe  a good thing I was stuck in the middle of nowhere last week and missed all that M&D  partner40 hooooopla ..
> but I recall someone saying the MW07 GO can be found for 120$ ...
> may I ask WHERE???
> 
> I feel like I need one of those in my stable



That was probably with the 40% off code.


----------



## Zeros (Jun 29, 2020)

Caipirina said:


> Maybe  a good thing I was stuck in the middle of nowhere last week and missed all that M&D  partner40 hooooopla ..
> but I recall someone saying the MW07 GO can be found for 120$ ...
> may I ask WHERE???
> 
> I feel like I need one of those in my stable


You're going to need a whole farm, not just the stable soon!

BTW did you see my question earlier about what tips you recommend for the Edifier X3?


----------



## Caipirina

Zeros said:


> You're going to need a whole farm, not just the stable soon!
> 
> BTW did you see my question earlier about what tips you recommend for the Edifier X3?


Sorry, that one eluded me ...

to be honest, I am very happy with the tips that came with them ... bit of a new shape that I already saw some other TWS with (maybe the KZ Z1?)  ... more cylindrical in shape, less drop-y

I do have a bunch of tips I could try around with, but I have to be in the right mood, or it has to be a seal emergency   Also not good at recalling which ones are which, I also think we need a better common nomenclature as to describe certain aspects of those tips ... and then it starts feeling like homework


----------



## McCol

I've been using the M&D MW07plus for a couple of hours this evening after they arrived earlier in the day.

Nice packaging from M&D.  Charging case is really nice but a fingerprint magnet, not an issue though.
Earphones are really well made and look excellent,  I went for the black quartz version.

Sound wise, first listen I thought there was no bass, very thin sounding but tried the large tips and hey presto, bass had arrived.
Not as deep or impactful bass as the MTW2 however it is quite subtle and if the track requires bass it delivers.
Mids and highs are very smooth and detailed, plenty of energy, nice crispness to the sound.

I wouldn't say these were particularly inferior or superior to the MTW2, the senns have the better bass response but the MW07+ is for me more detailed elsewhere on the spectrum.

Comfort is excellent, the the earfins do a great job although I'll test them properly whe out walking the dogs tomorrow.


----------



## hifi80sman (Jun 29, 2020)

McCol said:


> I've been using the M&D MW07plus for a couple of hours this evening after they arrived earlier in the day.
> 
> Nice packaging from M&D.  Charging case is really nice but a fingerprint magnet, not an issue though.
> Earphones are really well made and look excellent,  I went for the black quartz version.
> ...


Loving the beryllium driver.  It's a clarity that's defined, yet not rough around the edges.  I don't find them bass light, as there is a tasteful emphasis over neutral.   You definitely need a good seal with these, as they are unforgiving if you can't get the right fit.  They shaped in a manner that can give one the impression the seal is good (90% seal), but it'll kill the bass.  I originally was using the L tips with the M wings, but I noticed the M wings made them sit ever so slightly further away, even though the seal felt good.  I changed to the S wings and presto, the seal is now undoubtedly amazing.  These play with rock especially well. Rock on.


----------



## SavoryTruffle

Welp, I'm shocked.

Got a pair of MW07 Go as my first choice and a pair of Samsung Galaxy Buds + as a backup. Been listening to both with different tips/wings and different styles of music for a few hours now. Turns out that I vastly prefer the sound of the Galaxy Buds. Really wasn't expecting that after many years of using a Klipsch IEM.

There's definitely some things I prefer about the MW07. The case feels nice. It's got texture and a nice snap to the lid. It's small enough to pocket easily and the fabric gives it nice grip. Lots of tip and wing options. Unboxing felt premium. They have a solid weight and don't feel like they're going to fall out, even with the small wings that don't fit my ears. I appreciate the quick play guide being made out of actual ****ing paper. The general look of the earphones themselves aren't really my style but they do look solid at least. My mother referred to them as 'professional' looking.

The Samsung case has that gloss nonsense I hate so much. No matter how I hold it, it always feels like I'm about to drop it. Same with the buds themselves. Less tip options. Unboxing is clearly designed for volume. Tips and wings were a slight concern to remove without feeling like I'm going to rip the paper of a product I may be returning. Quick play guide is standard volume packaging. Mother shuddered when she saw the earphones themselves and said they 'look like pokeballs.' I don't disagree.

Sound is a different story though. The MW07 definitely has a very full bodied sound, at least. The main drawback of the S4's I've been using for years has been the hollow sound. They could separate about as well as anything I've heard but individual sounds were hollow and tinny, lacking a proper fullness with just about every instrument.  These are a huge upgrade in that regard. Unfortunately, they also have that 'muffled bass' sound that I usually associate with Bose. It's not even necessarily too much bass or low quality bass. It's just so forward that it overpowers everything else to the extent that everything heavily bleeds together. Guitar sounds very 'general' without having clear attack and decay. Keyboard (and bass guitar) can often border on inaudible if other sounds are more forward at a given time. Drum patterns lack distinction.

Some songs with already muffled production were completely unlistenable. So little distinction that it might as well just be noise. The only genre where I could find a reasonable level of separation and even just general articulation was hip-hop, which in my case at least might as well qualify as cherry picking for simplicity. Even pop music suffered from muffled vocal presentation due to bass bleed. This was the case with all tips and wings. Medium tips fit me the best but suffer from the worst bleed. Small tips soften the bleed a bit but strongly strip out body, arguably the worst of both worlds. Medium definitely sounds like they seem to want to sound. Small is just too odd to sound intentional. Swapping in the small wings (with medium tips) seem to do the best job of reducing bleed without killing body, even though the wings don't actually fit my ears at that size. The best job isn't nearly good enough though.

This is the sound I was trying to avoid.

This is already long enough that I feel comfortable describing the Galaxy Buds + as largely 'not all those other things I just described.' Everything sounds clean and refined. They separate even better than my S4 did, but they also have far more body. Not as much body as the MW07, but dramatically more controlled. Every song I listened to sounded significantly better, even those where you would think the MW07's stronger bass output would provide more energy. I haven't yet gotten the feeling I sometimes get with a more neutral sound where accent and musical personality can feel a bit lifeless. Everything is still full of life here. It just goes down a lot easier.

They're also more comfortable to wear over time, even if I do still hate the stupid gloss.

All of the above said though, I do have a question for those more knowledgeable with IPX ratings than I am. How much do I have to worry about rain with the Galaxy Buds meager IPX2 rating? I'm not too concerned with sweat but I do use IEMs as my portable headphones, which means they're used largely outdoors. I don't always have the option to immediately get indoors when rain happens.


----------



## TK33

SavoryTruffle said:


> Welp, I'm shocked.
> 
> Got a pair of MW07 Go as my first choice and a pair of Samsung Galaxy Buds + as a backup. Been listening to both with different tips/wings and different styles of music for a few hours now. Turns out that I vastly prefer the sound of the Galaxy Buds. Really wasn't expecting that after many years of using a Klipsch IEM.
> 
> ...



Have you tried different tips with the MW07? I have been using Spinfit CP100Z tips on my MW07 Go and they have been working great for me (preferred them to the stock tips and some of the other Spinfit tips I tried). I had to go up to a size L with the Spinfit CP100Z after trying M and the CP360s (M and L) due to the way they sit in my ears but it has worked great over the last 8 or 9 months I've been using them.  They have no issues fitting in the case either.  I never liked the stock tips for these.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

McCol said:


> @HeadphoneAddict or anybody else that might still own both Senn MTW models.
> 
> Does the original case work for charging the new model?  As stated in an earler post, I lost my MTW2 case last week while cycling, Sennheiser are not yet selling replacement cases.  Was curios if the original case will work.



I only have 2 pairs of the original MTW, but I have been told the old case with work with the old and the new (smaller) MTW2 buds. I think the battery drain issue is with the MTW standby mode, and so maybe the original case might give you decent number of re-charges, I don't know.

I'd still contact Sennheiser on the support line and see if they can help with the lost case. It would seem silly that customer service cannot help with that.


----------



## mikp

just got my gifted mtw2, so time to test it against the jabra 65 or original mavins. I seem to be inbetween the medium and the large tips, the large ones seem shallower than the mediums but larger diameter.. Strange decision to make since mediums give better insertion.

Tested the anc and it luckily works with fans, but less with the diesel generator thats outside


----------



## HeadphoneAddict (Jun 30, 2020)

*MPOW M30 and M30 Plus impressions:*





*So far the MPOW M30 do not suck at all, especially for $29. They might be the new budget champs. I want to weigh in on the M30 and M30 Plus on their own merits here, and not directly compared to my other TWS yet. I will compare them to the others after I have these burned in, but my M30 Plus sound a bit better than my M30 with the smaller case.

MPOW M30:*

My previous budget $49 T1X were more detailed and transparent sounding than the M30, but the T1X driver flex caused noticeable binding up the right driver. The T1X driver flex was so bad that I had to file for a return, because it took so long to get them to fit without the pressure in my ear canal binding up the drivers. The M30 do need at least 4-5 hours of burn-in to clear up a bit, and they might continue to improve with more time. Out of the box the M30 are simply missing some of that micro-detail that adds to the air and ambience or transparency that makes an IEM disappear behind the music. I used my iPhone 11 Pro Max with Tidal lossless streaming and with Apple Music with lossless CD rips to evaluate them.

The M30's frequency balance between bass, mids, and treble is actually good. The M30 are only slightly colored in the their sound signature, so the problem isn't what they DO or ADD so much as what they DON'T - they just do not sound as open or detailed as my more expensive earbuds. They are not dark sounding, it's just that the treble doesn't seem quite as detailed as with other TWS. So, they don't sound boxy or boomy, tizzy or sibilant, recessed or distant - they don't do anything offensive, but they also don't do anything exceptional. Yet the M30 can be more engaging and entertaining than my APP at times, which are more transparent and detailed sounding but also less energetic and more bland (unless I engage ANC or transparency modes which act like they apply EQ to the APP).

In Post Malone "Psycho" or Camilla Cabello "Havana" the bass is strong and not overdone, and while not super fast it keeps up well enough even at loud volumes, although it didn't feel as deep as I'm used to. Electric bass and electric guitars sound nice in Eric Clapton and BB King "Three o'clock Blues", and pianos are pretty close to being right but don't have quite the speed of attack that more expensive TWS can offer.

The acoustic guitars in Ryan Adams "Dirty Rain" or Chris Jones "Roadhouses and Automobiles" were crisp, and the vocals were also rich and present. I was most impressed with the mids in regards to vocals. But snare drums can sometimes sound a little fake in some recordings. In Pink Floyd "Money" the snare drums sound muffled or veiled while the cash register and tearing paper is sharp and crisp - not sure how they managed that.

In Ryan Adams' next song on the album "Ashes and Fire" with some IEM it's often an irritating or grating recording at very high volumes, where the complex music gets congested sounding with cheap IEM; but I could stand the song at high volume without yanking them out of my ears right away. So, they are more forgiving than many IEM. However, the dynamics of the bass gets lost at higher volumes where it can't keep up with the mids and highs. Another song that can get congested at loud volumes is "Molossus" from the Batman Begins soundtrack, and while the M30 handled this fairly well, the strings and horns in the soundtrack did start to sound a little boxy and artificial starting after 45 second mark at high volumes.

Female vocals were all so done well, including Diana Krall in "Live in Paris" and Halsey "Finally // Beautiful Stranger". There is no sibilance in the vocals, which are forward and engaging. Eric Clapton and BB King sound like themselves when singing in "Three o'clock Blues", and it's like they're singing right next to me.

These are a more warm sound signature than a bright one - the treble is not missing but it is a little recessed or veiled. It's certainly not hot sounding. Cymbals actually don't sound bad like I often hear with many budget IEM. And, in Rutter Requiem "Pie Jesu" these faults tend to disappear, and the flute, harp, and cello seem sharper tha I felt in other recordings; and the deep bass pipe organ was easily heard throughout.

*Operation is simple and easy to remember.* One tap on the left or right ear bud touch pad will play/pause. Two taps on the left skips back, while two taps on the right skips forward. Three taps on either left or right brings up Siri. A press and hold on the left is volume down, and a press and hold on the right ear bud is volume up. It is possible to trigger the touchpad to pause music while simply adjusting the fit.

When I open up the case the buds wake up, and they made my iPhone pause music when listening with a different set of BT headphones. One time the M30 connected at the same time as the M30 Plus that I was listening to at the time that I opened up the M30 case, and the music paused while both showed as connected in BT settings. I could hit play and the music started again, and I could go to the control panel to select which ones to use.

The size of the M30 + 20 hour case and earbuds are similar to my GBuds+ but with a matt finish to the case. For the same size as Galaxy Buds + they claim 5 hours of battery + 4 extra charges, and I think the Galaxy Buds + will do 7.5 hours with 3 extra charges (25 total vs 28). I had to move up to large tips for a seal, while GBuds+ work fine with the medium tips that came installed on them. The M30 packaging includes extra wings in different sizes, and I might try the large wings too. But they also give you a second set of medium tips along with the small and large ones, and a USB-A to C charge cable. The M30 case has a single soothing medium brightness LED that glows blue when plugged in, and it goes out when it's fully charged.





*MPOW M30 PLUS - WHY DO THESE SOUND DIFFERENT?*

Out of the box and with no burn-in the M30 Plus were slightly less warm and more neutral sounding. They also had more treble and detail, and were more open and spacious. I only had about 1 hour on the M30 Plus when I started to type this, which I only started using tonight vs 5 hours on the M30 from listening on Saturday and Sunday too. *Based on the improved sound, I AM NOT CONVINCED THAT THE M30 Plus ARE THE SAME as the M30*, despite looking the same with different cases.

On Amazon Q&A the seller was even saying that we cannot use the M30 with the M30 Plus case, so maybe they really are different? The M30 box says "waterproof" and that feature is missing on the M30 Plus box.

The M30 Plus 95 hour case is closer in size to the Sony XM3 case but about 1/4" less deep - it is 1/2" deeper than the MTW case while at a similar width and height. So, the Plus is still very easy to pocket. As far as I can tell, the M30 buds act like they are charging when placed in the M30 Plus case (glow red ring), although Amazon Q&A says they don't work together. I believe they said the M30 Plus case has a 2600 mah battery, and behind a little pop open cover you will find a USB-C input and a USB-A output, below the 4 LEDS.

The M30 Plus case has 4 bright blinking white LEDs as it charges, with each successive LEDs turning solid until it is full with all 4 lit up solid. As I started typing this had three solid white and the 4th is still blinking. I don't know if they turn off when the case battery is full like the blue LED did the M30 when the case was full, but after a few minutes after becoming full the LEDs did not shut off. When I unplugged the case the LEDs shut off, and there is a button you can press to light them up and check the battery level.





*SOUND:* I tried all of the test songs again. Pink Floyd "Money" sounds a bit better - snare drums are crisper and more present, and the bass is faster and hits only slightly less. With Post Malone "Psycho" and Ryan Adams "Dirty Rain" however, the bass kicks it up a notch, and the treble is a little brighter and detailed (this is before I have done any burn-in). The bass in Kailee Morgue "Medusa" or Katy Perry "Harleys in Hawaii" was quite good, although those songs had slightly more treble than called for, while Halsey "Beautiful Stranger" and many other songs on the "Manic" album sounded perfect.

More often than not the treble was just fine. The issues I had with the strings and horns in Batman Begins "Molossus" were not there with the M30 Plus, and it sounded noticeably more open and transparent than the M30. I could not stop listening, and I didn't hear that boxiness or artificiality with the M30 Plus that I heard on the soundtrack with the M30. Stevie Ray Vaughn "Tin Pan Alley" sounds much closer to live, as does Eric Clapton and BB King "3 O'clock Blues". Billie Eilish "&burn" or "Bad Guy" sounds tight and fast, with good bass. And the lighting match sound in "&burn" is crisp, while her vocals are intimate without feeling closed in.

A lot of my universal IEM testing is done with my teeth together (jaw closed), rather than my mouth relaxed and hanging a little "slack jawed", since I usually get the best seal, bass, and treble that way. I can usually make bass and treble increase when my teeth are together and decrease them when I relax my jaw. I found the M30 Plus sounded good either way, with my jaw looser and more slack, but at first when I closed my jaw the bass increased while the treble got a little edgy like it needs to burn in - after just an hour of listening the treble was already smoothing out. The M30 sounded best with my jaw position more closed, where the M30 lost a little bass and detail if I kept my jaw slack.

*The M30 Plus are either different, or I got the two sets that are not as consistent sounding as they should be, because these M30 Plus sound a bit more audiophile to me. Doing quick AB switching between the M30 and M30 Plus presents a similar flavor yet very different sound quality in my case. This may be a fluke, so I hope to hear from others who have both.*

Now, while I don't hear any crinkling sounds of Driver Flex, I did notice at one point when I pushed them deeper into my ears that they got brighter with less bass. And I had to take them out and put them in a couple of times to get the sound back to where it was before, leaving me wondering if it was a fit issue or a driver flex/binding issue. I could pull down on my ear lobes and make it sound like all treble, then let go and not get it back to where it was before, but when I removed and replaced them a couple of times the sound was back to normal again.

Once the sound was normal, I really didn't want to mess with them any more because they sounded so good and I wanted to keep listening, but my findings were repeatable. For these to sound best, without driver flex, I use the large tips with a shallow insertion - this gives me a good seal and bass, with good comfort. The wings keep them in place without needing to shove them in deeply.

Regardless, the M30 Plus sound fun and exciting, and without any EQ needed - I got deep and tight bass, full mids, and crisp treble with good detail and space. *The M30 Plus sound like they could cost 2-3x more.* They have fairly good passive isolation, and are also very comfortable and don't rub badly anywhere in my ears, nor do they make my ear canals itch or feel sweaty. They are not as refined sounding as the top tier TWS, but for $39 they are very impressive. The only thing I currently hope for is that the treble becomes a smidge more tame with burn-in (same with the N6P), without becoming veiled like my M30. Right now the treble is still less fatiguing and smoother than my Gbuds Plus, so if nothing changes after the 1st hour of burn-in then I'm fine with that, since I still enjoy the Gbuds+ as they are.

*I am keeping the M30 Plus for sure*. If I can actually swap cases back and forth, or if the M30 become more detailed sounding after further burn-in, I am keeping those too, since they were so cheap. The tiny case would be a plus when wanting to carry multiple items in my pockets. If neither is true then I will offer the M30 to my son or daughter, since I like my M30 Plus much more, but the M30 are not bad enough or expensive enough to need a refund. Like I said, I do think the M30 Plus might have very mild driver flex like I had with my Liberty Air 2, which is minimal and easily handled, making them much more worthy than the T1X in my eyes.

I didn't even have to roll tips yet, nor EQ them like I did with the LA2 before I returned them. I returned the LA2 because at $99 + tax they didn't fill a spot in my collection that couldn't be covered better by something else. Three or four of the professional EQ settings with the Soundcore app sounded good with the LA2, while flat EQ sounded a little bland. And the Hear-ID adjustment in the Soundcore app made the LA2 treble too shrill (to make up for my hearing loss the Soundcore app went a bit too far).

EDITED FOR TYPOS


----------



## Caipirina (Jun 30, 2020)

HeadphoneAddict said:


> *MPOW M30 and M30 Plus impressions:*
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Here a quirky, somewhat awesome addition to the M30 ... apparently you can buy single earbud replacements in case you lose one!  So far I only have seen this from some of the big names ..  and also, so far, (knocking on wood really hard), I never lost a single bud .. I might have misplaced a whole set (and still hoping to find some day), but never a single ... but i can see how this could happen to cyclists ...


----------



## McCol

HeadphoneAddict said:


> I only have 2 pairs of the original MTW, but I have been told the old case with work with the old and the new (smaller) MTW2 buds. I think the battery drain issue is with the MTW standby mode, and so maybe the original case might give you decent number of re-charges, I don't know.
> 
> I'd still contact Sennheiser on the support line and see if they can help with the lost case. It would seem silly that customer service cannot help with that.



I've contacted Sennhesier and they were next to useless really.  Acknowledged that their site has images of the MTW2 charging case but not yet available and they were unsure when or if it would be.  I can see me buying another set and ending up with a spare pair of earbuds!  
I'm going to give it a month or so.


----------



## hifi80sman

As a Public Service Announcement, I received my refund from Master & Dynamic today for the MW65 I purchased at the same time I bought the MW07 Plus.  For the record, they replied to my email the day after my refund request and issued a full refund (no shipping charges) the day after they received the item from FedEx.

I HIGHLY recommend purchasing directly from Master & Dynamic vs. Amazon, etc.


----------



## SavoryTruffle

TK33 said:


> Have you tried different tips with the MW07? I have been using Spinfit CP100Z tips on my MW07 Go and they have been working great for me (preferred them to the stock tips and some of the other Spinfit tips I tried). I had to go up to a size L with the Spinfit CP100Z after trying M and the CP360s (M and L) due to the way they sit in my ears but it has worked great over the last 8 or 9 months I've been using them.  They have no issues fitting in the case either.  I never liked the stock tips for these.



I considered trying out my S4 tips right after putting the MW07 back in the box. I decided against it and effectively gave up mainly because I don't think there is anything wrong with the sound I was getting from them. The criticisms I have of them match the criticisms of everyone else I've seen who doesn't like them (feel like I should've trusted crinacle here) and while I don't think the positives are worth the negatives they did exist with the right music. With the medium tips and small wings I feel like they sounded about how they're probably supposed to sound.

In more positive news, I don't think my post yesterday did the Galaxy Buds + justice. These things are ****ing amazing. Not just better than expected. Not just great for the form factor. Just straight up incredible by any standard. I tried out a few of the more popular wireless over ear headphones a couple years ago (multiple sennheiser, newest bose, klipsch, etc) and these things blow all of them straight out of the water. They might actually have better detail and separation than my Hifiman HE-400i. I doubt they'll be outright replacing them due mainly to comfort and soundstage for movies, but what I'm hearing from these things is particularly crazy for a $150 mass market portable product heavy on convenience and feature set.


----------



## McCol

SavoryTruffle said:


> I considered trying out my S4 tips right after putting the MW07 back in the box. I decided against it and effectively gave up mainly because I don't think there is anything wrong with the sound I was getting from them. The criticisms I have of them match the criticisms of everyone else I've seen who doesn't like them (feel like I should've trusted crinacle here) and while I don't think the positives are worth the negatives they did exist with the right music. With the medium tips and small wings I feel like they sounded about how they're probably supposed to sound.
> 
> In more positive news, I don't think my post yesterday did the Galaxy Buds + justice. These things are ****ing amazing. Not just better than expected. Not just great for the form factor. Just straight up incredible by any standard. I tried out a few of the more popular wireless over ear headphones a couple years ago (multiple sennheiser, newest bose, klipsch, etc) and these things blow all of them straight out of the water. They might actually have better detail and separation than my Hifiman HE-400i. I doubt they'll be outright replacing them due mainly to comfort and soundstage for movies, but what I'm hearing from these things is particularly crazy for a $150 mass market portable product heavy on convenience and feature set.



Its funny how we can hear things differently. 
I found the Galaxy Buds+ to lacking in bass and general overall detail.  Out of the wireless earphones the Galaxy were the weakest.  
Shows that it is possible for us to all hear things differently.


----------



## Caipirina

Often have I heard the SpinFit CP360 mentioned here, especially in connection with the XM3s ... can someone enlighten me what's so special / new / different about them? They are not easy to get (even amazon EU gets them from the US for some silly shipping extra fee) and well ... kinda expensive (I have bought TWS for that amount of money)
Hence I would like to know if it is worth it and what makes them so 'rare'


----------



## Dcell7 (Jun 30, 2020)

Caipirina said:


> Often have I heard the SpinFit CP360 mentioned here, especially in connection with the XM3s ... can someone enlighten me what's so special / new / different about them? They are not easy to get (even amazon EU gets them from the US for some silly shipping extra fee) and well ... kinda expensive (I have bought TWS for that amount of money)
> Hence I would like to know if it is worth it and what makes them so 'rare'


The silicon is more sticky. For me they have a great fit with TWS and even on wired sets they are great. Another tips i can recommend for TWS are the Misodiko TWS-Joy.


----------



## hifi80sman (Jun 30, 2020)

McCol said:


> Its funny how we can hear things differently.
> I found the Galaxy Buds+ to lacking in bass and general overall detail.  Out of the wireless earphones the Galaxy were the weakest.
> Shows that it is possible for us to all hear things differently.


I agree.  Everyone has their taste and what sounds/music they enjoy.  There's also a personality overlay, which completely makes sense given music is emotional in nature.  No right or wrong, unless you're pushing something objectively technical.  The best each of us can give is our impressions.

Personally, I'm not a fan of the Galaxy Buds+ and have purchased and returned them several times (Best Buy).  That being said, I CAN see why someone would like them, it's just not my taste.

Currently, I'm rotating between 3 main TWS': MW07 Plus, SP800N, and APP.  I gave the MPOW M30 to my son and he really likes it.


----------



## logiatype

hifi80sman said:


> I agree.  Everyone has their taste and what sounds/music they enjoy.  There's also a personality overlay, which completely makes sense given music is emotional in nature.  No right or wrong, unless you're pushing something objectively technical.  The best each of us can give is our impressions.
> 
> Personally, I'm not a fan of the Galaxy Buds+ and have purchased and returned them several times (Best Buy).  That being said, I CAN see why someone would like them, it's just not my taste.
> 
> Currently, I'm rotating between 3 main TWS': MW07 Plus, SP800N, and APP.  I gave the MPOW M30 to my son and he really likes it.



This is why Crinacle's database is such a gem. I generally dislike bassy sets (sub bass good, mid bass bad). If the MW07 Plus is the baseline then the GBuds+ definitely are bass-lite. I find the GBuds+ (and Tevi) bass to be just about perfect (would reduce by 5% if possible) haha.


----------



## Sam L

Caipirina said:


> Often have I heard the SpinFit CP360 mentioned here, especially in connection with the XM3s ... can someone enlighten me what's so special / new / different about them? They are not easy to get (even amazon EU gets them from the US for some silly shipping extra fee) and well ... kinda expensive (I have bought TWS for that amount of money)
> Hence I would like to know if it is worth it and what makes them so 'rare'


Someone mentioned the "stickiness" of the material, aside from that there is the more obvious distinctives you may already know about but I'll detail them anyways to be thorough:

1. The biggest gripe with the XM3 is the fit, not just in achieving a proper fit but also maintaining one. Most will have no issue in getting a seal to establish for a bit, while immobile, with all the various tips the XM3 already come with. However, if you stand up and introduce any motion whatsoever, the seal is easy to break. (likely a byproduct of how bulky the earpieces are.) The spinfits go a better job in maintaining a seal because of the nature of how the product pivots around the stem of the eartip.

2. It goes without saying that the CP360 are the low profile version of their product, shaving a couple mm off of their mainstream eartips. 

I've been fortunate in that I have been able to try various tips by taking an xacto knife and cutting a couple mm off of the stem of some eartips until I find one that works. And even then I have relegated my XM3 to "sit down listening" only.


----------



## hifi80sman

logiatype said:


> This is why Crinacle's database is such a gem. I generally dislike bassy sets (sub bass good, mid bass bad). If the MW07 Plus is the baseline then the GBuds+ definitely are bass-lite. I find the GBuds+ (and Tevi) bass to be just about perfect (would reduce by 5% if possible) haha.


LOL, so I guess you won't buy those 12" subwoofers out of the back of my truck, eh?


----------



## darveniza

clerkpalmer said:


> The AKG N400 is seriously awesome.  Although Crinancle hated on MW07 (my favorites to date) I have to agree with him on these.  The tuning is stellar.  It's tuned for an audiophile sound - balanced, crisp and nothing overwhelms but they are very musical.  There is some bass boost so they thump nicely but it is not v-shaped.  If you like the N6 pro, you will absolutely love these.  They are not quite as detailed but they make up for it in tonality.
> 
> The rest of the package is compelling.  The build quality is superb.  They are metal and feel weighty and high quality.  Fit is fine.  Using stock medium tips plus the largest stabilizers.  They are comfortable and seem secure.  In addition to the ridiculously good sq, they have ANC.  Only negative so far is some hiss in the left bud at no volume which quickly disappears once the volume goes up and they don't support Aptx or Samsung's scaleable codec.  I am using an S20 over AAC.
> 
> For $200, these are a bargain.  They blow away anything in that price range. Can't believe these haven't garnered more attention to date.


I was surprised by these also from a sound perspective but also packaging, I think better presentation than some pricier options


----------



## howdy

logiatype said:


> This is why Crinacle's database is such a gem. I generally dislike bassy sets (sub bass good, mid bass bad). If the MW07 Plus is the baseline then the GBuds+ definitely are bass-lite. I find the GBuds+ (and Tevi) bass to be just about perfect (would reduce by 5% if possible) haha.


I see you like the Tevis a lot (I do to) if you need another pair (or anyone) I have one for sale.


----------



## logiatype

darveniza said:


> I was surprised by these also from a sound perspective but also packaging, I think better presentation than some pricier options


It's a damn shame that they didn't include Apt-X...


----------



## hifi80sman

darveniza said:


> I was surprised by these also from a sound perspective but also packaging, I think better presentation than some pricier options


Do you notice any of the hiss that @clerkpalmer mentions in the L earbud?


----------



## Caipirina

Sam L said:


> Someone mentioned the "stickiness" of the material, aside from that there is the more obvious distinctives you may already know about but I'll detail them anyways to be thorough:
> 
> 1. The biggest gripe with the XM3 is the fit, not just in achieving a proper fit but also maintaining one. Most will have no issue in getting a seal to establish for a bit, while immobile, with all the various tips the XM3 already come with. However, if you stand up and introduce any motion whatsoever, the seal is easy to break. (likely a byproduct of how bulky the earpieces are.) The spinfits go a better job in maintaining a seal because of the nature of how the product pivots around the stem of the eartip.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the details. Yep, totally get the ‘sit down’ listening. Curious to try the xm3 on my next plane trip ...

really enjoying the sound. And from everything I read so far, I doubt the sp800n will beat them (sound and anc but less, still bulky) ...but I will see hopefully soon. Scheduled to arrive today, but not received a dispatch notice yet.


----------



## darveniza

hifi80sman said:


> Do you notice any of the hiss that @clerkpalmer mentions in the L earbud?



For context , as soon as I connected them to the phone there was an update to the earbuds. No hissing whatsoever, checked with nothing playing and after each transition. Surprising I like the gestures that they used for raising and lowering the volume and changing from noise cancelling, ambient aware,etc

Surprised on the customization options for the swipes.

I have the Samsung Galaxy Buds +, great TWS option , but felt the fit not that awesome. Was thinking on the new Senheiser TWS 2 but I paused on the cost. The MTW07 Plus fit was never the best for me. Was checking the forum's and saw these mentioned at an affordable price with ANC, so just pulled trigger. After a day of continue use:

Fit  ( for me): A+
App functions:  A
Sound: A ( When compared vs the SGB + and Senheiser)
Price: A+


----------



## Luchyres (Jun 30, 2020)

darveniza said:


> For context , as soon as I connected them to the phone there was an update to the earbuds. No hissing whatsoever, checked with nothing playing and after each transition. Surprising I like the gestures that they used for raising and lowering the volume and changing from noise cancelling, ambient aware,etc
> 
> Surprised on the customization options for the swipes.
> 
> ...



Curious to hear how they perform for calls in mildly noisy environments, and to get your thoughts on the case/pocket-ability?  

I'm keen on these for workout buds given their IP rating.  :


----------



## Sam L

Has anyone pulled the trigger on the Fiil CC?


----------



## clerkpalmer

Luchyres said:


> Curious to hear how they perform for calls in mildly noisy environments, and to get your thoughts on the case/pocket-ability?
> 
> I'm keen on these for workout buds given their IP rating.  :


These are perfect for workouts. Used on my outdoor bike ride today. Wind noise was minimal compared to the 800n. Sweat all over them. Barely budged over 20 miles. Biggest issues are they weigh a bit more than others due to the excellent build quality and if you use the large wings they can leave your ear sore after an hour or so. Waiting on my replacement to determine the source of the hiss.


----------



## Darkestred

Open box XM3s $148 on ebay: https://tinyurl.com/ycygfcx8


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## alaiswang

chinmie said:


> apparently the Tronsmart Onyx Free has a really bad call quality



Hi, chinmie,
Sorry to hear that. Tronsmart Onyx Free is used cVc and DSP noise technology. It has crystal clear call quaility. Can you please tell us where you buy it? We will see what is the problem.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

SavoryTruffle said:


> I considered trying out my S4 tips right after putting the MW07 back in the box. I decided against it and effectively gave up mainly because I don't think there is anything wrong with the sound I was getting from them. The criticisms I have of them match the criticisms of everyone else I've seen who doesn't like them (feel like I should've trusted crinacle here) and while I don't think the positives are worth the negatives they did exist with the right music. With the medium tips and small wings I feel like they sounded about how they're probably supposed to sound.
> 
> In more positive news, I don't think my post yesterday did the Galaxy Buds + justice. These things are ****ing amazing. Not just better than expected. Not just great for the form factor. Just straight up incredible by any standard. I tried out a few of the more popular wireless over ear headphones a couple years ago (multiple sennheiser, newest bose, klipsch, etc) and these things blow all of them straight out of the water. They might actually have better detail and separation than my Hifiman HE-400i. I doubt they'll be outright replacing them due mainly to comfort and soundstage for movies, but what I'm hearing from these things is particularly crazy for a $150 mass market portable product heavy on convenience and feature set.



I like everything about my GBuds+ except that (1) the treble is sometimes a little too sharp for me, mostly at higher volumes, while the midrange needs to be a little more forward, and (2) the ambient noise pass thru is a little too treble oriented rather than a full frequency pass through. At least when using ambient mode the Samsung have less hiss in a quiet room than the Jabra 75t in hear-thru mode, and the Samsung are slightly more comfortable than my Jabra. The V-shaped frequency response and decent passive noise blocking make the Samsung good for low volume listening, something my tinnitus appreciates. (see my 12 pros vs 2 cons list posted a few days ago).

Because the Samsung case is so small I can take them everywhere. I like them enough that I carry them and my Jabra around everywhere in my cargo shorts pocket. I use them more frequently than the APP and tend to rotate between the GBuds+ and Jabra 75t when I'm on the move (I like a change of flavor and don't stick with one sound for too long). 

And now to the rambling section of my post - I haven't used my N6P in a while due to lack of ambient or transparency mode, but for the price I would still recommend them for someone who doesn't care about an ambient sound mode and wants good detail and separation/imaging. I often carry the XM3 and MW07+ in my backpack or a jacket for when I travel, and I also use them in rotation with my MTW when I'm in my recliner and vegging. I think the MW07+ sound like a more refined version of the GBuds+ with fuller midrange and smoother treble, which I understand may sound better than the MW07 original or Go?


----------



## HeadphoneAddict (Jul 1, 2020)

hifi80sman said:


> I agree.  Everyone has their taste and what sounds/music they enjoy.  There's also a personality overlay, which completely makes sense given music is emotional in nature.  No right or wrong, unless you're pushing something objectively technical.  The best each of us can give is our impressions.
> 
> Personally, I'm not a fan of the Galaxy Buds+ and have purchased and returned them several times (Best Buy).  That being said, I CAN see why someone would like them, it's just not my taste.
> 
> Currently, I'm rotating between 3 main TWS': MW07 Plus, SP800N, and APP.  I gave the MPOW M30 to my son and he really likes it.



You must have liked something about the Samsung to buy them more than twice. What did you think of the MPOW M30?

I thought that the M30 didn't sound as good as the M30 Plus, but they didn't suck either. Coming back to the M30 and M30 Plus tonight after a 24 hour break, the M30 plus are still more neutral, detailed, and transparent than the M30 which have less detail and that slight upper midrange coloration I mentioned last night. I'm not blown away by either, but I think they are both a great value for the price and can be enjoyed by most people. The differences in them might be like switching from an Alpine car speaker to an Infinity car speaker - improved, but not as good as a nice Focal car speaker.

At first I was not hearing as much bass tonight in the Plus as I did last night. It's weird, but repositioning them a few times fixed it. So, I do think there is a driver flex issue with the Plus when I pressurize my ear canal during insertion, which the regular M30 don't seem to have. It's easier to get the sound back to normal with refitting them than it was with the FIIL T1X, where I was unable to use the stock tips at all.

I offered the M30 to my son, and he rejected them without even trying them out. He is spoiled with some Westone W60 and W80 on a BT V2 cable, and doesn't care about TWS.

I also think the WF-SP800N that I returned (for fit and stability issues) sounded a bit like my bass boosted WF-1000XM3 that I bought next (I never was able to compare them). With a little bumped treble EQ and clearbass at +5 or +6 the XM3 sound pretty good. But I'd bet that if the SP800N had fit me better and weren't as buggy as they were that I would have been just as happy with them as I am now with the XM3.

I promised in my post last night that I would compare the M30 to some top tier TWS. Tonight, after listening to the M30 and M30 Plus for about 20 minutes, I quickly switched from the M30 and M30 Plus to the XM3 - immediately I understood just how much better the XM3 are. I had previously set the XM3 clearbass to +6 and had added about +4 to the treble region in the XM3 app, which makes them sound a little closer to the MW07+ including detail and air.

The fact that I don't have to fiddle with the seal on my MTW, XM3, MW07+, GBuds+, Jabra 75t, or N6P to get them to sound right makes me want to keep the "M30 Plus" less than when I was playing with them last night. I have to fiddle with the seal on my APP often to keep them from falling out, and that's one of the reasons I use them less than the others.

So, I'll need to start tip rolling the M30 Plus to see if that helps seal the ear without binding the M30 Plus drivers. The olive-shaped tips that I found worked better with T1X may be a good choice. When the M30 Plus are sealed properly they just sound great, but when I have to fiddle with them to make them work and then I don't want to remove them lest I mess up the sound, it's starting to become a problem. I don't know why the M30 (regular) don't have this issue, and I get consistent sound each time I put them in. Thus, I will also work on getting 24 hours of burn-in done with the M30 and hope for more detail and transparency - I'm not sure I am keeping any or both.


----------



## bedlamite

So these just came in the mail. Slapped on some CP360s and I'm about to update the firmware.


----------



## chinmie

alaiswang said:


> Hi, chinmie,
> Sorry to hear that. Tronsmart Onyx Free is used cVc and DSP noise technology. It has crystal clear call quaility. Can you please tell us where you buy it? We will see what is the problem.



hello, 
no, i haven't bought it yet, but considering to try it (and the onyx ace too), just for curiosity.. because i think i have to many TWS already. 

my post was talking about the call test on that review video (which is not me)


----------



## alaiswang

Hi, chinmie,
OK. I see. Tronsmart always cares about our customers. If you have any feedback or advice, please feel free to contact us.
BTW, we will release a hybrid ANC TWS+ earbuds in this month. Would you like to try and give some feedback？


----------



## chinmie

alaiswang said:


> Hi, chinmie,
> OK. I see. Tronsmart always cares about our customers. If you have any feedback or advice, please feel free to contact us.
> BTW, we will release a hybrid ANC TWS+ earbuds in this month. Would you like to try and give some feedback？



sure do, I'm always a sucker for ANC gears


----------



## XDT

darveniza said:


> For context , as soon as I connected them to the phone there was an update to the earbuds. No hissing whatsoever, checked with nothing playing and after each transition. Surprising I like the gestures that they used for raising and lowering the volume and changing from noise cancelling, ambient aware,etc
> 
> Surprised on the customization options for the swipes.
> 
> ...



Hi darveniza - could you clarify how the N400s are more comfortable than the Buds + ? Are they smaller in size so fit better... or? Comfort is a big criteria for me.


----------



## hifi80sman

HeadphoneAddict said:


> You must have liked something about the Samsung to buy them more than twice. What did you think of the MPOW M30?


I TRIED to like them, but I just couldn't.  For instance, I've purchased the APP like 5 times now, and finally, I'm starting enjoy them, especially after the last firmware update that seemed to improve the sound.  Also, the APP are very comfortable and I never get any complains when I'm on calls.  That being said, sometimes there's a lack of things to buy, so I go back to the what I've tried before to see if I was off that day, my mood was different, etc.

You have to be strategic about returns as well, so I don't typically go to the same store over and over, pay cash, wear wigs, spray on tan, you know, all the normal stuff.  

The MPOW M30 are very good and even more so for the price.  At $29, I can recommend them to anyone looking to get into the TWS craze.


----------



## darveniza

XDT said:


> Hi darveniza - could you clarify how the N400s are more comfortable than the Buds + ? Are they smaller in size so fit better... or? Comfort is a big criteria for me.


The Buds are a bit smaller, will take a picture to show difference. However the AKG sit very well and used them yesterday while I was fixing a fence and never became noticeable. One thing I can telling using the gestures to raise and lower volume worked with no issue while using gloves. Tap to play and pause is much easier on them also. I think the size of the surface area for clicking works better for me than the Buds +.

No doubt both are very good options and fit better than Sennheiser,Master Dynamics.

I am still checking on mic for phone calls. However currently the few calls people say they heard me with no issue.


----------



## TK33

TheLionelHutz said:


> Thanks, both. Guess I'll stay patient. Ordered on 6/13 and still hasn't shipped out.


After being stuck on "landed in Nee York" (I live in NY so it would've only been a few miles away) for a week, the tracking just updated this morning and now says "Out for Delivery".  Last entry was June 25 as of a few hours ago but the tracking just updated and includes an entry from yesterday so it does not appear to be real time...fingers crossed that my stuff actually shows up and good luck with your delivery.


----------



## bronco1015

hifi80sman said:


> I TRIED to like them, but I just couldn't.  For instance, I've purchased the APP like 5 times now, and finally, I'm starting enjoy them, especially after the last firmware update that seemed to improve the sound.  Also, the APP are very comfortable and I never get any complains when I'm on calls.  That being said, sometimes there's a lack of things to buy, so I go back to the what I've tried before to see if I was off that day, my mood was different, etc.
> 
> You have to be strategic about returns as well, so I don't typically go to the same store over and over, pay cash, wear wigs, spray on tan, you know, all the normal stuff.
> 
> The MPOW M30 are very good and even more so for the price.  At $29, I can recommend them to anyone looking to get into the TWS craze.


 lol Amazon, Target and Bestbuy are having an openbox sale, brought to you by @hifi80sman. haha.


----------



## TK33

darveniza said:


> The Buds are a bit smaller, will take a picture to show difference. However the AKG sit very well and used them yesterday while I was fixing a fence and never became noticeable. One thing I can telling using the gestures to raise and lower volume worked with no issue while using gloves. Tap to play and pause is much easier on them also. I think the size of the surface area for clicking works better for me than the Buds +.
> 
> No doubt both are very good options and fit better than Sennheiser,Master Dynamics.
> 
> I am still checking on mic for phone calls. However currently the few calls people say they heard me with no issue.



How is the size compared to the MTW or MW07? Seems about similar in weight.  Would be interested in your impressions on call quality as well. These look interesting to me. I have found my MTW case battery empty on a few occasions now that I dont use them as much (and is starting to annoy me) so I may retire them soon.


----------



## Caipirina

alaiswang said:


> Hi, chinmie,
> OK. I see. Tronsmart always cares about our customers. If you have any feedback or advice, please feel free to contact us.
> BTW, we will release a hybrid ANC TWS+ earbuds in this month. Would you like to try and give some feedback？


I'd love to try that too!   Just bought my Spunky Beats replacement and appreciate that Tronsmart can send from Poland now for EU people! Very fast delivery!


----------



## Caipirina

Caipirina said:


> Well, let's see if they stick to this ...  and I am fully commited to send them back if I can't get a decent fit ... problem I had with the SP700N, but I ended up using them without the wings, and the sound is pretty good, the ANC did not deserved the name though .. here is hope the 800 work better with my ears ...


So much for that, guess Webvan had more reliable info that the SP800N will not arrive on July 1st ... thanks amazon for getting my hopes up ... Now they don't even have a new date!


----------



## webvan

Sorry for the slight OT but does someone know of an Android Cloud Player (streaming from Pcloud or Google Drive) that has a 5/10 second skip back/forward feature ? Ideally with a way to control that with a press on a TWE ! I read somewhere that VLC for Android could let you rewind with a long press of the Vol- button but that doesn't work. That feature would be great when listening to audiobooks while exercising and you've missed something due to noise/prompt, etc...thanks for any hints !


----------



## Sebulr

webvan said:


> Sorry for the slight OT but does someone know of an Android Cloud Player (streaming from Pcloud or Google Drive) that has a 5/10 second skip back/forward feature ? Ideally with a way to control that with a press on a TWE ! I read somewhere that VLC for Android could let you rewind with a long press of the Vol- button but that doesn't work. That feature would be great when listening to audiobooks while exercising and you've missed something due to noise/prompt, etc...thanks for any hints !


Smart audio book player has a custom skip button. I think you can give it permission to access Google drive. I haven't used that feature however, and have not used the app for a year or so.


----------



## Sam L

Linda crichton said:


> I have Apple Airpods, I think it's good, but I am going to try other more, so if you guys have other better recommend, pls tell me.


A couple things:

1. Just to confirm, you have the older airpods or airpods pro? 

2. What you you like or dislike about the sound you get from them currently?

3. What type of music do you listen to? 

4. Have there been previous wired or wireless models you've appreciated or hated? 

5. What is your budget? Under $30, $50, $100, $300?

Afte you answer some or all these questions, I'm sure many suggestions will come in.


----------



## darveniza

TK33 said:


> How is the size compared to the MTW or MW07? Seems about similar in weight.  Would be interested in your impressions on call quality as well. These look interesting to me. I have found my MTW case battery empty on a few occasions now that I dont use them as much (and is starting to annoy me) so I may retire them soon.


 Below comparison with Bud +. I think what helps with fit for me is the angle of the stem and tip on the N400 vs Buds +. Size growth involves ANC needs. Will do some pictures with Master Dynamics and Senheiser


----------



## Anden

First of all, I'm a "audionoob" and I don't know all the right audio jargong. 
I have now listened to my MW07 Plus for 2 days and I really like them, but when I have the volume set for the 70% "Danger" area in my phone I feel that these earphones sounds a bit low, if you understand what I mean? If I compare with the Gbuds I owned before these, then those sounded a bit louder on the same volume percentage.
Does anyone else get the same experience?
How did you fit your earphones guys? I use the S/M eartips together with the L stock buds. Should I check out "Spinfit" perhaps?
Does anyone have a short tutorial of how you can fix the perfect fit for your ears? Some tips?


----------



## TK33

darveniza said:


> Below comparison with Bud +. I think what helps with fit for me is the angle of the stem and tip on the N400 vs Buds +. Size growth involves ANC needs. Will do some pictures with Master Dynamics and Senheiser


Thanks. Those look awesome.


----------



## darveniza

Anden said:


> First of all, I'm a "audionoob" and I don't know all the right audio jargong.
> I have now listened to my MW07 Plus for 2 days and I really like them, but when I have the volume set for the 70% "Danger" area in my phone I feel that these earphones sounds a bit low, if you understand what I mean? If I compare with the Gbuds I owned before these, then those sounded a bit louder on the same volume percentage.
> Does anyone else get the same experience?
> How did you fit your earphones guys? I use the S/M eartips together with the L stock buds. Should I check out "Spinfit" perhaps?
> Does anyone have a short tutorial of how you can fix the perfect fit for your ears? Some tips?


With the MW you need to raise the volume on the phone to the level you considered acceptable and then use the volume control on the MW to raise it more as they are not in sync. For example your phone can show your in max volume but that does not mean the the MW is at max. In noticed by accident , that is not occurring in other TWS earphones. Noticed this on a LG and Pixel phone


----------



## darveniza

Anden said:


> First of all, I'm a "audionoob" and I don't know all the right audio jargong.
> I have now listened to my MW07 Plus for 2 days and I really like them, but when I have the volume set for the 70% "Danger" area in my phone I feel that these earphones sounds a bit low, if you understand what I mean? If I compare with the Gbuds I owned before these, then those sounded a bit louder on the same volume percentage.
> Does anyone else get the same experience?
> How did you fit your earphones guys? I use the S/M eartips together with the L stock buds. Should I check out "Spinfit" perhaps?
> Does anyone have a short tutorial of how you can fix the perfect fit for your ears? Some tips?


 Further reference MW07+, N400, Buds+, TWS, Sony 1000 XM3


----------



## logiatype

darveniza said:


> Further reference MW07+, N400, Buds+, TWS, Sony 1000 XM3


How on earth did Samsung manage that battery life on a single charge lol.


----------



## TooFrank

Sam L said:


> Someone mentioned the "stickiness" of the material, aside from that there is the more obvious distinctives you may already know about but I'll detail them anyways to be thorough:
> 
> 1. The biggest gripe with the XM3 is the fit, not just in achieving a proper fit but also maintaining one. Most will have no issue in getting a seal to establish for a bit, while immobile, with all the various tips the XM3 already come with. However, if you stand up and introduce any motion whatsoever, the seal is easy to break. (likely a byproduct of how bulky the earpieces are.) The spinfits go a better job in maintaining a seal because of the nature of how the product pivots around the stem of the eartip.
> 
> ...


FWIW: For the XM3 the CP360 does a great job soundwise, however because of their weight and they can the pivot (move up and down) when moving/walking. Besides the ANC is suffering compared with the comply true grips. So all in all, I also chose to remain inactive when enjoying the XM3, which I still do....


----------



## AudioNoob

alaiswang said:


> OK. I see. Tronsmart always cares about our customers. If you have any feedback or advice, please feel free to contact us.
> BTW, we will release a hybrid ANC TWS+ earbuds in this month. Would you like to try and give some feedback？


Hi Alais, I sent you a pm with some questions.


----------



## Bartig

hifi80sman said:


> You made me buy them.  I hope you're happy with yourself.


And? How do you like them? Curious. 



FYLegend said:


> Any issues with distortion? I saw some reviews (can't remember who exactly) that mentioned them crackling at higher volumes. Maybe they got duds though.


Hmm, I haven't noticed them. I have to say though, the Mpow M30 goes pretty loud. Maybe I haven't reached those volume levels.


----------



## webvan (Jul 1, 2020)

Sebulr said:


> Smart audio book player has a custom skip button. I think you can give it permission to access Google drive. I haven't used that feature however, and have not used the app for a year or so.


Thanks, I'll try that ! Oops, files have to be stored locally 

@Caipirina - hard luck, Amazon UK are still showing a July 6th date so it should be the same with Amazon DE...

@darveniza - need to look into these N400, they seemed design to hold steady once in place, the exact opposite of the XM3s that Sony obviously did not design for mobility...How's the ANC on them compared to the MW07+ where it's said to be very "weak sauce" ?


----------



## Anden

darveniza said:


> With the MW you need to raise the volume on the phone to the level you considered acceptable and then use the volume control on the MW to raise it more as they are not in sync. For example your phone can show your in max volume but that does not mean the the MW is at max. In noticed by accident , that is not occurring in other TWS earphones. Noticed this on a LG and Pixel phone


Thanks for the tip.


----------



## hifi80sman

Bartig said:


> And? How do you like them? Curious.
> 
> 
> Hmm, I haven't noticed them. I have to say though, the Mpow M30 goes pretty loud. Maybe I haven't reached those volume levels.


I largely agree with your assessment.  They are Galaxy Buds lookalikes, but I actually like them more.    They are not necessarily in my main rotation, but I can see them as the perfect gym earbuds.  My son is currently using them, but you know, I can take them back whenever I want.


----------



## jasonb (Jul 1, 2020)

TooFrank said:


> FWIW: For the XM3 the CP360 does a great job soundwise, however because of their weight and they can the pivot (move up and down) when moving/walking. Besides the ANC is suffering compared with the comply true grips. So all in all, I also chose to remain inactive when enjoying the XM3, which I still do....



The CP360 don't seem to pivot or move in my ears when walking. Currently I'm using the Dekoni Bulletz with the Wavelet Android app. I'm using the autoEQ with some light tweaks and it sounds great. 

Wavelet works great on my Pixel 3a with Spotify and with my WF1000xm3 and with my K371/ES100 combo.


----------



## erockg

darveniza said:


> Further reference MW07+, N400, Buds+, TWS, Sony 1000 XM3


Here they are in black.  Loving them so far.


----------



## hifi80sman

erockg said:


> Here they are in black.  Loving them so far.


How's the build?  Mostly metal?  8k-10k spike?  Sub-bass?


----------



## erockg

hifi80sman said:


> How's the build?  Mostly metal?  8k-10k spike?  Sub-bass?


Case is metal.  Buds are plastic.  Way better build than the Galaxy buds.  Soundstage is wide.  I'll have to compare with my MTW2.  No idea about the spike, but bass is deep for my hard rock and metal needs. Haven't tried them for phone calls while working from home.  They're definitely are louder than the MTW2 and fit me better.  ANC is great here at my house.  Still hear people if they are sitting next to me like my toddler screaming "Not dis" when he is tired of watching Blippi shows.  But they do cut out fans, hums etc.


----------



## TK33

erockg said:


> Still hear people if they are sitting next to me like my toddler screaming "Not dis" when he is tired of watching Blippi shows.



Don't think any amount of ANC could help you with that. Don't know what I would do without Disney+.  The only time my toddler listens is when Mickey Mouse Clubhouse is involved.


----------



## Bartig

Has someone tried the Soundcore Spirit Dot 2? While Soundcore’s last efforts were good, very well-thought-trough products, they didn’t really do it for me in the sound department, with their slightly hissy mids. 

Now, the Spirit Dot 2 seems to be something else. There’s a LOT to take in. The sound is SO dynamic.


----------



## webvan

TK33 said:


> Don't think any amount of ANC could help you with that. Don't know what I would do without Disney+.  The only time my toddler listens is when Mickey Mouse Clubhouse is involved.





erockg said:


> Case is metal.  Buds are plastic.  Way better build than the Galaxy buds.  Soundstage is wide.  I'll have to compare with my MTW2.  No idea about the spike, but bass is deep for my hard rock and metal needs. Haven't tried them for phone calls while working from home.  They're definitely are louder than the MTW2 and fit me better.  ANC is great here at my house.  Still hear people if they are sitting next to me like my toddler screaming "Not dis" when he is tired of watching Blippi shows.  But they do cut out fans, hums etc.



Yeah, passive isolation is the only way to fight this type of noise ! I read in an Amazon comment that the passive isolation on the N400 is great and that the ANC adds a little bit for the humming noises. That's how I'd describe the MTW2 and the Echobuds, with the latter doing a bit better in both passive and ANR/ANC than the MTW2.


----------



## incursore61

Use *Code* WEEKEND25 To Save 25% & We'll Donate to the NAACP Legal Defense Fund. 10% of Your Order Total Will be Donated to Help the Fight for Social Justice. *Master* & *Dynamic*® MW07. *Master* & *Dynamic*® MW65. *Master* & *Dynamic*® MA770.


----------



## incursore61

THE CODE WORKS PERFECTLY BOTH ON THE USA SITE  AND THE EUROPEAN ONE  !!!


----------



## eiraku

Still waiting patiently for the next big thing (ie. the next gen stuff)... But y'know COVID isn't making it easy seems like.


----------



## webvan

incursore61 said:


> THE CODE WORKS PERFECTLY BOTH ON THE USA SITE  AND THE EUROPEAN ONE  !!!



No need to SHOUT !  So yes it works but after seeing a 40% code it's hard to go back to a 25% code  BTW, did those who ordered on M&D EU with a 40% code last week get their order ?


----------



## McCol

webvan said:


> No need to SHOUT !  So yes it works but after seeing a 40% code it's hard to go back to a 25% code  BTW, did those who ordered on M&D EU with a 40% code last week get their order ?


Yes, got mine fine,  arrived on Monday


----------



## howdy

webvan said:


> No need to SHOUT !  So yes it works but after seeing a 40% code it's hard to go back to a 25% code  BTW, did those who ordered on M&D EU with a 40% code last week get their order ?


There is 50 percent off the 1st MW07 so you can get them for 99.50. use code MW0750. That's a awesome deal.


----------



## hifi80sman

howdy said:


> There is 50 percent off the 1st MW07 so you can get them for 99.50. use code MW0750. That's a awesome deal.


CURSE YOU!


----------



## Sam L

hifi80sman said:


> CURSE YOU!


But would you really have pulled the trigger on the 1st gen? I thought it was plagued with flakey connection issues?


----------



## bedlamite

Yeah, at this point it's 40% off on the Pluses or GTFO  If you do a little bit of Googling you'll see they often discount their stuff. 25% off is a good deal but I'm going to hold out for a little more.

Besides, I just took delivery of the TWM2s (these are great with the 4.8.0 update btw) and I have n400s coming in, so my wallet kind of hates me right now


----------



## webvan

Sam L said:


> But would you really have pulled the trigger on the 1st gen? I thought it was plagued with flakey connection issues?


It's more the battery life holding me back as I remember the complaints here of beeping starting after 2.5 hours...


----------



## RemoGaggi

What is the longest period of time it took for an order from China to get to your home in the United States?  Just wondering.  Is it normal that my order arrived in NY in mid May, but still not delivered to California?  Just wondering.


----------



## VICosPhi

Shure TWS will be available soon, interesting design...

https://www.shure.com/en-US/products/earphones/aonic215


----------



## Spidermanxd

VICosPhi said:


> Shure TWS will be available soon, interesting design...
> 
> https://www.shure.com/en-US/products/earphones/aonic215


Not consider as true wireless, this is same as fostex Bluetooth, can change out the iem


----------



## Sam L (Jul 2, 2020)

RemoGaggi said:


> What is the longest period of time it took for an order from China to get to your home in the United States?  Just wondering.  Is it normal that my order arrived in NY in mid May, but still not delivered to California?  Just wondering.


stuff i ordered at the end of April just came in last week. I'm still waiting on things order the first and second weeks of May.

**edit: but I did receive various earbud foams and tips after about a month. So, a handful of these small orders were placed mid May and came in mid June.


----------



## VICosPhi

Spidermanxd said:


> Not consider as true wireless, this is same as fostex Bluetooth, can change out the iem



Shure considers it true wireless. FiiO has similar Bluetooth TWS adapters.


----------



## McCol

VICosPhi said:


> Shure considers it true wireless. FiiO has similar Bluetooth TWS adapters.



Shure might but I don't think most would, it's essentially a 215 with adaptors.


----------



## bedlamite (Jul 2, 2020)

What Shure are doing isn't anything new, Fiio and TRN already have such adaptors, and much smaller at that. 

I actually prefer these to proper TWS, the earbuds may be smaller but you're always saddled with a carrying case which is cumbersome if you're traveling light.


----------



## Caipirina

webvan said:


> @Caipirina - hard luck, Amazon UK are still showing a July 6th date so it should be the same with Amazon DE...


That's now what DE is showing as well. Glad I did not cancel yet, they raised the price to 208€ ... still convinced though I will send them back


----------



## howdy

hifi80sman said:


> CURSE YOU!


No Prob😀!
Say, did you ever buy those 75ts? It might be a bit early to say but I love these things! Sound great, comfortable, great App.


----------



## Sam L

FYI, for those pondering a Fiil CC purchase, they are on flash sale currently:

https://www.gearbest.com/bluetooth-headphones/pp_3001857516468250.html?wid=2000001

$58.99

These are the TWS earphones Bartig reviewed as exceptional in call quality and strong SQ as well.


----------



## Caipirina

howdy said:


> There is 50 percent off the 1st MW07 so you can get them for 99.50. use code MW0750. That's a awesome deal.


Someone please tell me that I do NOT need those !!! 
Quick! I already tested the code and it works! 





What's wrong with me??? 

(I was already eyeing them at 140€ from amazon warehouse ... )


----------



## BobJS

Caipirina said:


> Someone please tell me that I do NOT need those !!!
> Quick! I already tested the code and it works!
> 
> 
> ...



It's been 10 minutes as I'm posting this.

I'm sure it's too late...


----------



## Dcell7

BobJS said:


> It's been 10 minutes as I'm posting this.
> 
> I'm sure it's too late...


He probably already ordered before posting


----------



## webvan

Caipirina said:


> Someone please tell me that I do NOT need those !!!
> Quick! I already tested the code and it works!
> 
> 
> ...



Don't you remember people complaining that the battery life was terrible with some repeated alerts/beeping after 2.5 hours ?


----------



## Caipirina

webvan said:


> Don't you remember people complaining that the battery life was terrible with some repeated alerts/beeping after 2.5 hours ?



I read that, but after looking over some more reviews, I also found that they are supposed to be not even that great sounding ... so, I quickly killed all M&D tabs in my browser and moved on with my life   ... yes, I can be reasonable at times  

But thanks everyone for chiming in


----------



## webvan

Well done ! Anyway you have the SP800n to look forward to


----------



## TK33

VICosPhi said:


> Shure TWS will be available soon, interesting design...
> 
> https://www.shure.com/en-US/products/earphones/aonic215



Those adapters were available for a while and some people on head-fi already have (or had and returned) them. They stopped selling them due to some issues. In case you are not aware, there is another thread on head-fi discussing them if you are interested.


----------



## hifi80sman

Sam L said:


> But would you really have pulled the trigger on the 1st gen? I thought it was plagued with flakey connection issues?


I never had connection issues with the 1st Gen.  The only issues I had were the poor battery life (realistically 2-2.5 hours at max) and low call quality.  What I did like in the old version that the new one does not have, is multi-point (I could simultaneously connect to iPhone and Android) and AAC.


----------



## hifi80sman

howdy said:


> No Prob😀!
> Say, did you ever buy those 75ts? It might be a bit early to say but I love these things! Sound great, comfortable, great App.


Not yet.  Still kicking that one around. Not really excited about them, as Jabra has never tickled my fancy with their sound.  It's always been good, not great (for my tastes).  I really like the MW07 Plus, a lot actually, with the L Sony SP800N eartips.  It tames the 8k-10k spike (to my ears) a bit.  I really love Sony eartips for some reason, so much so that my wife is becoming jealous.


----------



## erockg

TK33 said:


> Those adapters were available for a while and some people on head-fi already have (or had and returned) them. They stopped selling them due to some issues. In case you are not aware, there is another thread on head-fi discussing them if you are interested.


I had them.  Returned them then a few weeks later Shure sent a $100 Amazon gift card apology they ultimately recalled them.  Lots of battery issues, the app was flawed and no volume controls.  That said, they were very comfortable but the battery case was HUGE.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

webvan said:


> No need to SHOUT !  So yes it works but after seeing a 40% code it's hard to go back to a 25% code  BTW, did those who ordered on M&D EU with a 40% code last week get their order ?


Got mine 40% off and have had them for about a week.


----------



## VICosPhi

Has anyone tried  YAMAHA TW-E3A  ? I have had mixed results with Yamaha in the past


----------



## actorlife

Worth it? At $42 sale.
Wireless Earbuds - FIIL T1X TWS True Wireless Earbuds Cordless, in-Ear Bluetooth 5.0 Earphones, 1/4" Dynamic Driver HiFi Stereo, DSP Noise-Canceling, Sweatproof, Bass Earbuds with Built-in Microphone https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07YBYN3P9/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_ioP.EbTF082H2


----------



## tgx78

RemoGaggi said:


> What is the longest period of time it took for an order from China to get to your home in the United States?  Just wondering.  Is it normal that my order arrived in NY in mid May, but still not delivered to California?  Just wondering.



Longest for me was 6 months wait time. (China -> Canada)

I am still waiting 2 IEMS I ordered in late March.

Covid sucks.


----------



## actorlife (Jul 2, 2020)

hifi80sman said:


> Looks like the MPOW M30 is getting some good reviews, one by @Bartig in particular.
> 
> Currently listed for $29.


I may pick them up later. Tronsmart Spunky Bear. I’m very curious it seems to have the Anbes type sound. Also thinking about those FIIL T1X TWS.


----------



## RemoGaggi

Just wan


tgx78 said:


> That is my observation as well. I wrote here in Feb. "Gotta thank whoever recommended Haylou GT1 plus as I have been enjoying its sound signature immensely. Very organic and natural tone with really good forward projection for TWS. I like it more than FIIL T1X or the tronsmart spunky beats."


Every time I spent extended time listening to my GT1 Plus (like tonight), it makes me want to buy another pair in case these break.  I think I will.


----------



## axhng

RemoGaggi said:


> Just wan
> 
> Every time I spent extended time listening to my GT1 Plus (like tonight), it makes me want to buy another pair in case these break.  I think I will.



Not sure if anyone bought the haylou gt1 XR yet. On paper seems like it's GT1 plus earbuds + GT1 Pro's larger case (larger battery).


----------



## tgx78

RemoGaggi said:


> Just wan
> 
> Every time I spent extended time listening to my GT1 Plus (like tonight), it makes me want to buy another pair in case these break.  I think I will.



I just bought an extra pair of GT1 Plus. Not a backup pair, but for a gift.


----------



## RemoGaggi

axhng said:


> Not sure if anyone bought the haylou gt1 XR yet. On paper seems like it's GT1 plus earbuds + GT1 Pro's larger case (larger battery).


I have not heard of these.  Time to research!


----------



## Synthy

my Astrote S90 showed up. haven't had time to really listen yet, but they do have a similar design to the galaxy buds and the shanling mtw100 where the case depth is too shallow to fit the vast majority of 3rd party tips and still charge the buds. the Astrotec didn't come with any large sized tips, so i'm using the large tips from the shanling rn instead of other tips i like more. at least they seem more seem more secure in my ears than the shanling.


----------



## FYLegend

jant71 said:


> Seems they updated the Duet 50... https://www.amazon.com/Duet-Pro-Bluetooth-Sweatproof-Headphones/dp/B085VL4FLB?ref_=ast_sto_dp
> 
> Doesn't seem that much or enough though. More battery and an extra set of tips? Still the same $50 as the first one when it came out since they are $54.99 and you get 10% off. Doesn't look like they added volume control or ambient or their nice EQ settings. Not claiming the sound was improved which is the usual thing that is attempted when releasing a "PRO" version of something.


Gamesky confirmed it has volume controls but that it sounds like the originals. Has USB-C unlike the originals (I know not important for some, but hey)


----------



## FYLegend

Synthy said:


> my Astrote S90 showed up. haven't had time to really listen yet, but they do have a similar design to the galaxy buds and the shanling mtw100 where the case depth is too shallow to fit the vast majority of 3rd party tips and still charge the buds. the Astrotec didn't come with any large sized tips, so i'm using the large tips from the shanling rn instead of other tips i like more. at least they seem more seem more secure in my ears than the shanling.


Can you confirm if the USB-C port charges C2C and if the bud-switching is truly "seamless" - can't find any specific info on the AptX-supported chip it uses, but it is unlikely if it is using QCC3020.


----------



## Caipirina

RemoGaggi said:


> Just wan
> 
> Every time I spent extended time listening to my GT1 Plus (like tonight), it makes me want to buy another pair in case these break.  I think I will.



Technically I have 2, but never listened to them, yet. One was lost in mail, I got refund and ordered the second pair. In the meantime pair #1 shows up way delayed at my home address (where I am not until mid August), while pair #2 has just 'arrived in your country', my summer address ... so, hopefully any day now


----------



## Caipirina

erockg said:


> Case is metal.  Buds are plastic.  Way better build than the Galaxy buds.  Soundstage is wide.  I'll have to compare with my MTW2.  No idea about the spike, but bass is deep for my hard rock and metal needs. Haven't tried them for phone calls while working from home.  They're definitely are louder than the MTW2 and fit me better.  ANC is great here at my house.  Still hear people if they are sitting next to me like my toddler screaming "Not dis" when he is tired of watching Blippi shows.  But they do cut out fans, hums etc.


 I have to ask, what are those? APP with custom paint job / Sharpie treatment? Clones? What tips fit on those?


----------



## assassin10000

Forgot to share this here... but modified my X12 Pro's. The airpod/earpod shape isn't as comfortable to me as regular earbud drivers.



More details here:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/diy-earbuds.822327/post-15707637


----------



## DynamicEars

RemoGaggi said:


> Just wan
> 
> Every time I spent extended time listening to my GT1 Plus (like tonight), it makes me want to buy another pair in case these break.  I think I will.



I want louder GT1 plus and stick with them. Extra resolution will be plus point but keep everything balanced like the original.


----------



## musiclover2015

Seems that nobody has been impressed with Jlab Audio Air Icon here. I have been using those for a week now & the sq is growing on me.
Honestly, I never liked the so-called crown holder Senn Momentum wireless. For me, they are not loud enough, the bass isn't exciting at all & it has harsh highs too. Jbuds Air is filling in the holes that Senn left opened. My only complaint with these is about not having a wider soundstage. 

I would love to hear other's thoughts on these great budget buds.


----------



## Caipirina (Jul 3, 2020)

A little something on the eternal ear tips hunt for the 1000XM3 ... and I wish I had received those before I shelled out for the CP360 (*)

Today I received these no name clone-y things from AliExpress... there's 7 pairs, like the original box. Full color silicone tips in same sizes, nice.
But then there are bi-color ones which are NOT memfoam, but 'other' kind of silicone? a bit more grippy? ANyways, the biggest of those are now giving me a perfect seal!




_(*) I actually sent amazon a 'request for cancellation' since I felt really silly to pay 20€ for 2 pairs of tips ... and then came back with 'yep, it's cancelled' and 'this item is currently unavailable' ... that would have been a long wait (item was supposed to ship from Amazon Global Store to GER _


----------



## webvan

A perfect seal until you start moving around or working up a sweat ? If you have to jam them in your ear canal it doesn't count


----------



## Caipirina

webvan said:


> A perfect seal until you start moving around or working up a sweat ? If you have to jam them in your ear canal it doesn't count


I jammed the others in, but they would slowly come loose. I have done a bit of walking around with those new cheapos and they sit the best from everything have tried so far. 
working up a sweat is a different topic since no IPX rating. For those I have other buds


----------



## Hyperfluxe

bedlamite said:


> Yeah, at this point it's 40% off on the Pluses or GTFO  If you do a little bit of Googling you'll see they often discount their stuff. 25% off is a good deal but I'm going to hold out for a little more.
> 
> Besides, I just took delivery of the TWM2s (these are great with the 4.8.0 update btw) and I have n400s coming in, so my wallet kind of hates me right now



Should I downgrade from 4.9.0 to 4.8.0? I seem to recall a thread on /r/Sennheiser saying you should stay on the second latest firmware to fully avoid connectivity issues.

Anyone care to comment on MW07+ and heavy deadlifts, do they stay in place? Not interested in the Go version. I think I might just return my Sennheiser MTW2 (got 9 days left) and try the MW07+ for 25 days or so, then make a final decision. It's also a partially immature decision, 7/10 gym bros seem to have the MTW2 these days which bothers me for no reason that could be considered rational.


----------



## webvan (Jul 3, 2020)

Caipirina said:


> I jammed the others in, but they would slowly come loose. I have done a bit of walking around with those new cheapos and they sit the best from everything have tried so far.
> working up a sweat is a different topic since no IPX rating. For those I have other buds



Good point, I'll give you a pass on the sweat (even though there are no known XM3s who died from sweat so far ?) but I'm still curious as to how long they'll stay put and maintain the seal when you're on the out and about  So far I'm not aware of anyone achieving that with the XM3s without jamming them deep in the canal, not too painfully with "sound mufflers" and "highly degradable" Complys or painfully with silicones that will irritate the heck out of your ear canal after too short a while !


----------



## Caipirina

webvan said:


> Good point, I'll give you a pass on the sweat (even though there are no known XM3s who died from sweat so far ?) but I'm still curious as to how long they'll stay put and maintain the seal when you're on the out and about  So far I'm not aware of anyone achieving that with the XM3s without jamming them deep in the canal, not too painfully with "sound mufflers" and "highly degradable" Complys or painfully with silicones that will irritate the heck out of your ear canal after too short a while !



Well, in earlier discussions here I already got the feel those are better 'sit down' buds ... but at least now I get the full force of the ANC and am looking for trying them on plane (not looking forward to my next flight in general, but that's  a different story) .. so far they are not as jammed in that they cause pain / discomfort ... guess those tips just perfectly fit my weird ears ... 

Was thinking earlier of our ongoing 'does it thud' discussion for running with buds .. and I actually had a very pleasant, thudless run with APP clones, the blackpods pro 2 ... they function well, don't sound worse than the originals (which don't sound that stellar to begin with) and don't thud ... doubt they like sweat, so I am only using them for running in those dryer climates I am in now, for sure nothing for equatorial SL humidity ...


----------



## hifi80sman (Jul 3, 2020)

Hyperfluxe said:


> Should I downgrade from 4.9.0 to 4.8.0? I seem to recall a thread on /r/Sennheiser saying you should stay on the second latest firmware to fully avoid connectivity issues.
> 
> Anyone care to comment on MW07+ and heavy deadlifts, do they stay in place? Not interested in the Go version. I think I might just return my Sennheiser MTW2 (got 9 days left) and try the MW07+ for 25 days or so, then make a final decision. It's also a partially immature decision, 7/10 gym bros seem to have the MTW2 these days which bothers me for no reason that could be considered rational.


For me, they stay in place well.  Although I don't have the MTW2, I had the MTW, and the fit was more comfortable long-term than the MW07 or MW07 Plus.  That being said, the MTW did create more of a pressure-like seal, which itself can be fatiguing vs. the MW07 Plus that still seals, but rests in your ear (if that makes sense).

I do, however, enjoy the sound of the MW07 Plus much more than the MTW.  When I had the original MW07 and MTW at the same time, I almost never reached for the MTW.  I listen to mostly 80s arena rock/80s hard rock and it sounds really good on the MW07 Plus.

Sounds like you're not 100% sold on the MTW2, so it doesn't hurt to give something else a shot.  Plus, the MW07 Plus look gorgeous and are on sale now.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B083KC2M6H/

I really like the matte black finish on this one:
https://www.masterdynamic.com/products/mw07-plus-earphones-for-0-95?variant=32612103946317
PROMO CODE: WEEKEND25


----------



## erockg (Jul 3, 2020)

Caipirina said:


> I have to ask, what are those? APP with custom paint job / Sharpie treatment? Clones? What tips fit on those?


Colorware Carbon Matte Black AirPods Pro.  They had a Memorial Day sale so I splurged.  I bought tip adapters off Amazon that let me use regular tips on them.  I cut the stalks off large Symbio foam tips and they work wonderfully and still fit in the case.


----------



## webvan

Caipirina said:


> Well, in earlier discussions here I already got the feel those are better 'sit down' buds ... but at least now I get the full force of the ANC and am looking for trying them on plane (not looking forward to my next flight in general, but that's  a different story) .. so far they are not as jammed in that they cause pain / discomfort ... guess those tips just perfectly fit my weird ears ...
> 
> Was thinking earlier of our ongoing *'does it thud' *discussion for running with buds .. and I actually had a very pleasant, thudless run with APP clones, the blackpods pro 2 ... they function well, don't sound worse than the originals (which don't sound that stellar to begin with) and don't thud ... doubt they like sweat, so I am only using them for running in those dryer climates I am in now, for sure nothing for equatorial SL humidity ...



That's interesting, will look them up. They claim ANC on their page but that seems fishy... blackpods pro 2 

Do you prefer them to the X12 ? I really can't fault these, apart from maybe allowing too much wind noise when cycling but then I rarely listen to music when cycling due to the hazard it causes.


----------



## logiatype

Can I get recommendations for something that sounds similar to the Tevi? Curious to try what else is out there.
Sound preference = not a fan of mid-bassy sets.


----------



## Caipirina

webvan said:


> That's interesting, will look them up. They claim ANC on their page but that seems fishy... blackpods pro 2
> 
> Do you prefer them to the X12 ? I really can't fault these, apart from maybe allowing too much wind noise when cycling but then I rarely listen to music when cycling due to the hazard it causes.



Nope, the X12 are still the best for running IMHO, but I just like to mix things up (says the guy who has his 3rd set of X12, this time with AptX, waiting in the mail box back home)
Will send you the link where I bought the APP clones in DM ... not sure if these guys claimed ANC .. but they do claim a lot  some stuff is unnecessary bogus to fool potential buyers who try them out (like the battery indication in that pop up window is randomized crap), other stuff, like that positioning thing, seems to be working ... I just like the fit and the fact that they are black .. oh, and the case has wireless charging which I found great at 25.80


----------



## webvan (Jul 3, 2020)

Thanks, I saw the ANC "claim" here https://www.blknoire.com/ but it's a bit "confusing" I suppose...as well as the GPS ?!

I have a spare pair of X12s (actually my first ones are the LEZII that still work fine 18 months down the road), nice red ones, the PROs, but that was their original name I think ? I remember they came out with Ultras in some dubious camo colors with the QC5020, but that wouldn't have AptX would it ? It gets confusing


----------



## mikp

webvan said:


> Thanks, I saw the ANC "claim" here https://www.blknoire.com/ but it's a bit "confusing" I suppose...as well as the GPS ?!
> 
> I have a spare pair of X12s (actually my first ones are the LEZII that still work fine 18 months down the road), nice red ones, the PROs, but that was their original name I think ? I remember they came out with Ultras in some dubious camo colors with the QC5020, but that wouldn't have AptX would it ? It gets confusing



Blackpods ,- Recently FeaturedUnbox Therapy. That should be a warning sign, same as social media hype.
.
Had my mtw2 for a week, and luckily I like them since theres no return for "hygiene" products here and it was a gift. Good alternative to the mavins, that are a bit narrower and intimate. 

Only thing is the ambient sound is a bit more amped than on the jabra 65. Just wish sennheiser made the large tip a little longer.


----------



## Caipirina

webvan said:


> Thanks, I saw the ANC "claim" here https://www.blknoire.com/ but it's a bit "confusing" I suppose...as well as the GPS ?!
> 
> I have a spare pair of X12s (actually my first ones are the LEZII that still work fine 18 months down the road), nice red ones, the PROs, but that was their original name I think ? I remember they came out with Ultras in some dubious camo colors with the QC5020, but that wouldn't have AptX would it ? It gets confusing


oh, forgot about my Lezii   maybe because I never got those wings with them, and they seem to be a bit more on the 'drop connection' side ... 
These are the Ultras I got ... nice simple design (did not like the cameo at all) and no mention WHICH QC chip they use, but aptx is mentioned .. even in the reviews ... I will check in mid august for myself


----------



## Viber

1.Is the *Haylou GT1 plus* good for bass driven music? i can EQ here and there, but i want to know if the bass is capable enough.
2.Is it loud enough? i dont want quiet earphones.

3.Is the SoundPeats TrueDot worth the extra money? anything better than both under 25$ ?

Thanks!


----------



## tgx78 (Jul 3, 2020)

Viber said:


> 1.Is the *Haylou GT1 plus* good for bass driven music? i can EQ here and there, but i want to know if the bass is capable enough.
> 2.Is it loud enough? i dont want quiet earphones.
> 
> 3.Is the SoundPeats TrueDot worth the extra money? anything better than both under 25$ ?
> ...



1. Maybe not. I find it little north of neutral and perfect for my taste, but if you wear your earphones outside this one might not have enough bass. 

2. Sadly volume is little low on this set. You really have to crank it up to 90% range to get decent volume. After that driver start distort little. 

3. Truedot has little more bass impact and roundness, but gt1 plus has better quality (textured) bass. Overall SQ also better balanced on GT1 plus.


----------



## JOSELICHI

webvan said:


> No need to SHOUT !  So yes it works but after seeing a 40% code it's hard to go back to a 25% code  BTW, did those who ordered on M&D EU with a 40% code last week get their order ?


Yes!


----------



## assassin10000

webvan said:


> Thanks, I saw the ANC "claim" here https://www.blknoire.com/ but it's a bit "confusing" I suppose...as well as the GPS ?!
> 
> I have a spare pair of X12s (actually my first ones are the LEZII that still work fine 18 months down the road), nice red ones, the PROs, but that was their original name I think ? I remember they came out with Ultras in some dubious camo colors with the QC5020, but that wouldn't have AptX would it ? It gets confusing





Caipirina said:


> oh, forgot about my Lezii   maybe because I never got those wings with them, and they seem to be a bit more on the 'drop connection' side ...
> These are the Ultras I got ... nice simple design (did not like the cameo at all) and no mention WHICH QC chip they use, but aptx is mentioned .. even in the reviews ... I will check in mid august for myself



Yeah, the camo was horrendous. They do now have a 'starry' X12 ultra, which is the one @Caipirina got.





I also recently found they now do a 'marble' series of the X12 Ultra (AAC/APTX/Qi charging).




I've been considering getting a pair.


----------



## Hyperfluxe

hifi80sman said:


> For me, they stay in place well.  Although I don't have the MTW2, I had the MTW, and the fit was more comfortable long-term than the MW07 or MW07 Plus.  That being said, the MTW did create more of a pressure-like seal, which itself can be fatiguing vs. the MW07 Plus that still seals, but rests in your ear (if that makes sense).
> 
> I do, however, enjoy the sound of the MW07 Plus much more than the MTW.  When I had the original MW07 and MTW at the same time, I almost never reached for the MTW.  I listen to mostly 80s arena rock/80s hard rock and it sounds really good on the MW07 Plus.
> 
> ...



I agree with the MTW(2) regarding secure fitting, it holds really well with stock tips for me. I've tried CP360s, all four Azla Sednas, and Symbio Peel/W. They all sound better than stock tips in many ways but feel less secure, with Sedna Light/Short being the best compromise. I haven't noticed any fatigue issues with any of the tips though. Maybe that's why Sennheiser is so adamant about not using aftermarket eartips on the MTW2 - to minimize accidents. It's about $67 CAD cheaper using the promo code on the main website after shipping but if I need to return it it'll be a hassle so I think I'll just use Amazon CA for convenience sake. Gets delivered the next day and driver picks up my MTW2 at the same time. Besides aesthetics, is there a difference between the 0-95 Matte Black and colored models?


----------



## jasonb

logiatype said:


> Can I get recommendations for something that sounds similar to the Tevi? Curious to try what else is out there.
> Sound preference = not a fan of mid-bassy sets.



I won't say they sound the same, but with EQ I now prefer the wf1000xm3 over my Tevi. The wf1000xm3 don't sound bad by any means, but the Wavelet Android app autoEQ works wonders on them.


----------



## assassin10000

jasonb said:


> I won't say they sound the same, but with EQ I now prefer the wf1000xm3 over my Tevi. The wf1000xm3 don't sound bad by any means, but the Wavelet Android app autoEQ works wonders on them.



Did you try turning the sony 'eq' on in their app? Even on flat I found it makes a difference in sound as it turns on the internal DSP and seems to up the internal amp. Of course battery life drops from 6-8 hours to 4-5ish.


----------



## jasonb

assassin10000 said:


> Did you try turning the sony 'eq' on in their app? Even on flat I found it makes a difference in sound as it turns on the internal DSP and seems to up the internal amp. Of course battery life drops from 6-8 hours to 4-5ish.



I've used the EQ in the Sony Headphones Connect app. Wavelet does better though.


----------



## TheLionelHutz

TK33 said:


> After being stuck on "landed in Nee York" (I live in NY so it would've only been a few miles away) for a week, the tracking just updated this morning and now says "Out for Delivery".  Last entry was June 25 as of a few hours ago but the tracking just updated and includes an entry from yesterday so it does not appear to be real time...fingers crossed that my stuff actually shows up and good luck with your delivery.


They finally shipped after 3 weeks of backorder, but now on day 5 the tracking says "Customer hasn't pay off related fees. We will update." No idea what this means, except that I'm pretty sure it means "not coming for several more weeks."


----------



## chinmie

assassin10000 said:


> Did you try turning the sony 'eq' on in their app? Even on flat I found it makes a difference in sound as it turns on the internal DSP and seems to up the internal amp. Of course battery life drops from 6-8 hours to 4-5ish.





jasonb said:


> I've used the EQ in the Sony Headphones Connect app. Wavelet does better though.



i prefer the Sony EQ and leave the Wavelet of on my XM3s, while with most my other TWS like Gbuds, and the "non-app" cheaper TWS (and obviously non tweakable EQs). mostly not because the Wavelet is worse, but because for my really simplified tweaks of just cutting the Clear bass and leave everything else flat, the Sony EQ is way easier. 
The Wavelet surely can achieve the same result, but just requires more time tweaking. 

speaking of which, anyone with a Sabbat X12 could try the bass tuner boost to add extra oomph on the lower freq. 

also the virtualizer is a nifty effect to add a bit of depth and width, but doesn't work on every earphones though


----------



## FYLegend

Tribit Flybuds 3 seems to be a rebrand or uses the same basic components as MPOW M30 Plus, selling for 36$ USD. Unfortunately no volume controls, unlike the MPOW. https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B...W4JKR&linkId=b095182f772cc4615f5e171c8ad80826


----------



## howdy

chinmie said:


> i prefer the Sony EQ and leave the Wavelet of on my XM3s, while with most my other TWS like Gbuds, and the "non-app" cheaper TWS (and obviously non tweakable EQs). mostly not because the Wavelet is worse, but because for my really simplified tweaks of just cutting the Clear bass and leave everything else flat, the Sony EQ is way easier.
> The Wavelet surely can achieve the same result, but just requires more time tweaking.
> 
> speaking of which, anyone with a Sabbat X12 could try the bass tuner boost to add extra oomph on the lower freq.
> ...


Do you or anyone use UAPP for eq'ing your TW? I've been using UAPP for many many years, generally with Tidal.


----------



## TK33

TheLionelHutz said:


> They finally shipped after 3 weeks of backorder, but now on day 5 the tracking says "Customer hasn't pay off related fees. We will update." No idea what this means, except that I'm pretty sure it means "not coming for several more weeks."


Same thing happened to me. Apparently it is pretty common. I emailed them and they responded that they will take care of it. It started moving again a few days later.


----------



## hifi80sman

Hyperfluxe said:


> I agree with the MTW(2) regarding secure fitting, it holds really well with stock tips for me. I've tried CP360s, all four Azla Sednas, and Symbio Peel/W. They all sound better than stock tips in many ways but feel less secure, with Sedna Light/Short being the best compromise. I haven't noticed any fatigue issues with any of the tips though. Maybe that's why Sennheiser is so adamant about not using aftermarket eartips on the MTW2 - to minimize accidents. It's about $67 CAD cheaper using the promo code on the main website after shipping but if I need to return it it'll be a hassle so I think I'll just use Amazon CA for convenience sake. Gets delivered the next day and driver picks up my MTW2 at the same time. Besides aesthetics, is there a difference between the 0-95 Matte Black and colored models?


Nope, all the models are the same.  I’m not sure about US/Canada returns, but returning to Master & Dynamic (MW65) was much quicker than Amazon, which has been taking nearly 2 weeks for returns.  I’m actually doing a lot more online shopping from other companies, given Amazon shipping has slowed to basically 2 days in most cases.


----------



## FYLegend

Upcoming 1More Colorbuds. BA drivers, AptX/AAC. Should also have USB Type-C according to the FCC manual.

https://global.1more.com/1more-colorbuds-true-wireless-in-ear-headphoness/

"Say goodbye to bulky eartips" - these look bulky to me.




clerkpalmer said:


> Haven't tried it but i will. As far as the go, M&D did say they would unlock AAC somehow but offered no details. Has to be a hardware change and probably hard to figure out if you get one with or without.


Generally Qualcomm chips that support AptX should also support AAC. However, some manufacturers either "forget" to implement AAC until they release firmware (as happened to the Libratone Track Air) or intentionally disable it (as the case of CK3TW to make it seem like a budget product)


----------



## C_Lindbergh

This is amazing! I think this will be the first True Wireless with Bluetooth 5.2 and APTX Adaptive (no mention of LC3 codec tho).

https://aviot.jp/product/te-d01gv    (It's in Japanese so use google translate).

"


Bluetooth version5.2Bluetooth multi-pairing3 devicesCompatible codecAAC, SBC, Qualcomm® aptXTM, Qualcomm® aptXTM AdaptiveCorresponding profileA2DP,HFP,HSP,AVRCP

*Music is not interrupted,
up to 11 consecutive hours * (case in combination with up to 50 hours *) playback.* 

I'm defiantly ready for the next gen true wireless with low latency, multi point paring and awesome battery life.


----------



## go0gle

uhu finally something to get excited about


----------



## Viber (Jul 4, 2020)

tgx78 said:


> 1. Maybe not. I find it little north of neutral and perfect for my taste, but if you wear your earphones outside this one might not have enough bass.
> 
> 2. Sadly volume is little low on this set. You really have to crank it up to 90% range to get decent volume. After that driver start distort little.
> 
> 3. Truedot has little more bass impact and roundness, but gt1 plus has better quality (textured) bass. Overall SQ also better balanced on GT1 plus.



That's interesting, it seems like low volume is common among TWS earphones...such a turn off.   Maybe the KZ ones have enough power as i didnt see any complaints yet...

Might still pick the GT1 plus because it's only 16$   Can i at least switch eartips on those?or is it impossible because of case\nozzle restrictions?


----------



## jasonb

howdy said:


> Do you or anyone use UAPP for eq'ing your TW? I've been using UAPP for many many years, generally with Tidal.



I have in the past. It works well.


----------



## chinmie

Viber said:


> That's interesting, it seems like low volume is common among TWS earphones...such a turn off.   Maybe the KZ ones have enough power as i didnt see any complaints yet...
> 
> Might still pick the GT1 plus because it's only 16$   Can i at least switch eartips on those?or is it impossible because of case\nozzle restrictions?



haven't had volume deficit problem so far, but i did encounter two instances of TWS that have low max volume on initial pairing, but after tweaking and re-pair-ing, they have quite a boost in volume. fyi, alltwo of them is the QCY T1 and T5, and both problems when paired to my note 8. never have problems when connecting them to my tablet. 

me personally always try to get TWS with volume control to combat that problem, because they have volume control for their on-board amp


----------



## bedlamite

Hyperfluxe said:


> Should I downgrade from 4.9.0 to 4.8.0? I seem to recall a thread on /r/Sennheiser saying you should stay on the second latest firmware to fully avoid connectivity issues.


Oops sorry for the late reply. Are we already on 4.9.0? I just checked and the latest version should still be 4.8.0? Which has been rock solid for me.


----------



## TheLionelHutz

Viber said:


> That's interesting, it seems like low volume is common among TWS earphones...such a turn off.   Maybe the KZ ones have enough power as i didnt see any complaints yet...
> 
> Might still pick the GT1 plus because it's only 16$   Can i at least switch eartips on those?or is it impossible because of case\nozzle restrictions?


I have not experienced this much. Has this been your experience, or you are observing a lot of comments like that?

I can't come anywhere close to full volume with my Phaiser Fusion Ones. Usually about halfway. Loud but comfortable with my Nuarls is maybe 70%, and with my ADV X+s it's more like 75%. I could never listen to either of those at full volume either. 

I've cycled through about 20 sets and I only remember one or two that disappointed with faint volume level (SoundPeats TrueEngine and some cheap Boltunes). Maybe the Tranya B530 pro is borderline.


----------



## martiniCZ (Jul 4, 2020)

I was a little bored so I tried to do something I had been thinking about for a long time. I took the hated Bluedio Fi with QCC3020, which even my wife refused to listen to, and made something what I even enjoy listening to. I just transform the TWS to a wireless module like the BT20S, but with a charging case. With the TRN V90 it's a bit noisy, but outside I do not mind. The signal strength is now much more stable, and the microphone recording has also improved. Even the touch autopause works (although stupid as in its original state), unfortunately the other controls almost don't work. There is probably a problem with the calibration of the capacitive sensor during such wear. The quality of workmanship is not much, but it is definitely original  I was just sorry to throw Fi in the trash, where they would otherwise deserve to end up.


----------



## Caipirina

martiniCZ said:


> I was a little bored so I tried to do something I had been thinking about for a long time. I took the hated Bluedio Fi with QCC3020, which even my wife refused to listen to, and made something what I even enjoy listening to. I just transform the TWS to a wireless module like the BT20S, but with a charging case. With the TRN V90 it's a bit noisy, but outside I do not mind. The signal strength is now much more stable, and the microphone recording has also improved. Even the touch autopause works (although stupid as in its original state), unfortunately the other controls almost don't work. There is probably a problem with the calibration of the capacitive sensor during such wear. The quality of workmanship is not much, but it is definitely original  I was just sorry to throw Fi in the trash, where they would otherwise deserve to end up.


Just wow! !!!


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Huh, this is interesting.

I took the dog for a walk and noticed that my *AirPods Pro on firmware 2D27* sounds fuller and warmer to me, with more body to vocals in addition to better instrument separation. It also sounds less plasticky and V-shape to me, i.e. less treble biased. It's better than rev 2C54 or the 2D15 that came out around the 1st week of May. I stopped paying attention to them after that.

I got back and switched from iPhone to MacBook Tidal lossless streaming. Dianna Krall "Live in Paris" sounds more like what I was expecting. And bass guitars have been turned up in things like Eric Clapton and BB King "3 O'clock Blues", while Clapton's and King's vocals are more intimate and present. But in Rickie Lee Jones "Pop Pop" in the song Dat Dere the cymbals seem a little more recessed, while the string bass is much improved. Albums like Chris Jones "Roadhouses and Automobiles" still have crisp guitar strings, but it's definitely less bright sounding than before.

I'm still frustrated that when I have them set to swap between transparency and ANC modes with a press and hold, that on the MacBook there is still no way to listen to them in the 3rd mode with both of those modes turned off.


----------



## Pairzilla

I would probably call myself a Sennheiser fanboy. I have hd660s as my daily computer headphones. Own hd598s/hd58x/hd6xx so I was really leaning towards buying the MTW2 but with the M&D MW07+ currently on sale I kinda want to buy those. How comparable are they to MTW2? Most YouTubers all say the MTW2 are the best sounding TWS out but I'd believe the word of everyone on this forum before most YouTube reviewers.


----------



## clerkpalmer (Jul 4, 2020)

Pairzilla said:


> I would probably call myself a Sennheiser fanboy. I have hd660s as my daily computer headphones. Own hd598s/hd58x/hd6xx so I was really leaning towards buying the MTW2 but with the M&D MW07+ currently on sale I kinda want to buy those. How comparable are they to MTW2? Most YouTubers all say the MTW2 are the best sounding TWS out but I'd believe the word of everyone on this forum before most YouTube reviewers.



Comparable in that they both sound excellent but different in terms of sound signature. There is something special about the mw07 that I dont get from the mtw2. Hard to pin down.  Mtw2 is excellent as well. Very warm. Bass is a little boomy but it can be tamed in the eq. If fit isn't a concern I wouldn't pay more for the mtw2. But mw07 can be fussy to fit.


----------



## Pairzilla

clerkpalmer said:


> Comparable in that they both sound excellent but different in terms of sound signature. There is something special about the mw07 that I dont get from the mtw2. Hard to pin down.  Mtw2 is excellent as well. Very warm. Bass is a little boomy but it can be tamed in the eq. If fit isn't a concern I wouldn't pay more for the mtw2. But mw07 can be fussy to fit.


I wouldn't say fit is of concern. Do the mw07 have their own EQ app ? Also do the Dekoni ear tips fit on them?


----------



## Pairzilla

Also I forgot to mention what I listen to. Rap/tech death metal and progressive/EDM and podcasts


----------



## clerkpalmer

Pairzilla said:


> I wouldn't say fit is of concern. Do the mw07 have their own EQ app ? Also do the Dekoni ear tips fit on them?


No app. Not sure about dekoni but I dont see why not.


----------



## Viber

TheLionelHutz said:


> I have not experienced this much. Has this been your experience, or you are observing a lot of comments like that?
> 
> I can't come anywhere close to full volume with my Phaiser Fusion Ones. Usually about halfway. Loud but comfortable with my Nuarls is maybe 70%, and with my ADV X+s it's more like 75%. I could never listen to either of those at full volume either.
> 
> I've cycled through about 20 sets and I only remember one or two that disappointed with faint volume level (SoundPeats TrueEngine and some cheap Boltunes). Maybe the Tranya B530 pro is borderline.



Yea, I haven't tried tws sets myself, just checking out comments on products. 

Maybe it's more common amongst under 25$ ones? Idk...

I always cut some harsh frequencies and there are old songs without loud mastering, so i want some headroom to work with.


----------



## bedlamite

Pairzilla said:


> I wouldn't say fit is of concern. Do the mw07 have their own EQ app ? Also do the Dekoni ear tips fit on them?


M+D don't do apps, which could be a minus point. Nothing to fiddle around with, no firmware updates. 

I guess they're like the Nuarl N6 Pros, you buy them for the best-of-class audio quality. Cuz there's not much else lol


----------



## Synthy

FYLegend said:


> Can you confirm if the USB-C port charges C2C and if the bud-switching is truly "seamless" - can't find any specific info on the AptX-supported chip it uses, but it is unlikely if it is using QCC3020.


i don't own any C2C cables, so i can't check that, and connecticting to it has been fairly jank, so uh, yeah no "seamless" nothing in sight. i have to spend more time to articulate what i think about the sound, but it's def not perfect. at least it fits quite securely in my ears, unlike the shanling mtw100, which i was using.


----------



## Synthy

martiniCZ said:


> I was a little bored so I tried to do something I had been thinking about for a long time. I took the hated Bluedio Fi with QCC3020, which even my wife refused to listen to, and made something what I even enjoy listening to. I just transform the TWS to a wireless module like the BT20S, but with a charging case. With the TRN V90 it's a bit noisy, but outside I do not mind. The signal strength is now much more stable, and the microphone recording has also improved. Even the touch autopause works (although stupid as in its original state), unfortunately the other controls almost don't work. There is probably a problem with the calibration of the capacitive sensor during such wear. The quality of workmanship is not much, but it is definitely original  I was just sorry to throw Fi in the trash, where they would otherwise deserve to end up.


a walkthrough of how you did this in a youtube video, or even just a post with pictures would be super cool. this is awesome.


----------



## Almazbek

Can you help me with tws, i'm stuck with bomaker sifi and truedot, should I pay extra for bomaker?
Are there any better choices under 50$?


----------



## martiniCZ (Jul 6, 2020)

Synthy said:


> a walkthrough of how you did this in a youtube video, or even just a post with pictures would be super cool. this is awesome.


You really don't need any instructions, you just need to have some TWS that you hate and it won't be a shame if you destroy them 
Simply connect a piece of cable with connectors to the TWS instead of a microdriver (pay attention to polarity). Then all you have to do is modify the charging case a bit. Or like me, place stuff from the inside somewhere else. Bluedio Fi have a lot of unnecessary and malfunctioning sensors, they are not very suitable for this moding, but they have aptX, are really small and have a decent battery life. I've found that some IEMs make almost no noise, it's ideal for DD or some simple (1DD+1BA) hybrids like TRN ST1, or KZ ZSN. For example the V80 doesn't play with this wireless module at all.

P.S. At first it was supposed to be just an attempt, but I found that it is almost comfortable to use as the TWS. Despite the BT, the sound of hybrids is quite good, especially in terms of details, and it also fits securely in my ear, so I often use this madness at home work.


----------



## musiclover2015 (Jul 5, 2020)

Which one would you guys rate as the loudest TWS with a U-shaped signature & a wide sound stage?

I currently own Jabra 65T & Jbuds air icon & have also tried Senn Momentum & AirPods 2nd gen last year.


----------



## Hyperfluxe

Pairzilla said:


> I would probably call myself a Sennheiser fanboy. I have hd660s as my daily computer headphones. Own hd598s/hd58x/hd6xx so I was really leaning towards buying the MTW2 but with the M&D MW07+ currently on sale I kinda want to buy those. How comparable are they to MTW2? Most YouTubers all say the MTW2 are the best sounding TWS out but I'd believe the word of everyone on this forum before most YouTube reviewers.



Literally in the same boat as you. The solution is to buy both and return the less desirable one within the return policy. M&D does free returns within 2 weeks, Amazon Fulfilment vendors is 30 days. I've been testing out the MTW2 for 3 weeks now, they're decent for sure. I just hope the MW07+ don't explode out of my ears when I'm deadlifting 325kg...I wrecked two TWS IEMs because of that (though they weren't known for good fit, the Bose SSF and Jabra EA65t). The MTW2 are solid so far.


----------



## incursore61

hifi80sman said:


> For me, they stay in place well.  Although I don't have the MTW2, I had the MTW, and the fit was more comfortable long-term than the MW07 or MW07 Plus.  That being said, the MTW did create more of a pressure-like seal, which itself can be fatiguing vs. the MW07 Plus that still seals, but rests in your ear (if that makes sense).
> 
> I do, however, enjoy the sound of the MW07 Plus much more than the MTW.  When I had the original MW07 and MTW at the same time, I almost never reached for the MTW.  I listen to mostly 80s arena rock/80s hard rock and it sounds really good on the MW07 Plus.
> 
> ...





I agree with you I immediately bought Mw07 Plus with 25% because I am what I wanted..but now, seeing the mtw07 at half the price I ask myself some questions: is there really a difference in sound in favor of plus ??
in case the difference was not so great, I will simply return the pluses and buy MW07 .... in fact maybe I will buy MW07 now ... ??


----------



## darveniza

darveniza said:


> Further reference MW07+, N400, Buds+, TWS, Sony 1000 XM3


Just finished testing all of these TWS Coneection with Obstruction  and No Obstruction


Both approximately 30 feet 

With Obstruction (No line of sight)

1) Best N400
2) MTW 07+
3) Sennheiser
4) Galaxy Buds+/Sony 

No Obstruction (Direct line of Sight)

1) N400 (almost 45' ft)
2) Sennheiser and MTW
3) Galaxy Buds+ and Sony

Tried with music, video and phone calls. 

What I found different is that each wireless would cut out differently from abruptly or slowly becoming choppy in quality


----------



## Caipirina

incursore61 said:


> I agree with you I immediately bought Mw07 Plus with 25% because I am what I wanted..but now, seeing the mtw07 at half the price I ask myself some questions: is there really a difference in sound in favor of plus ??
> in case the difference was not so great, I will simply return the pluses and buy MW07 .... in fact maybe I will buy MW07 now ... ??


Great! Now I am tempted again!


----------



## Darkestred

I've been posting a lot of sales for the WF-1000XM3 and i have never listened to them.  haha.  Anyways, i bought a refurb set on ebay for $90.  Curiosity has piqued and killed this cat.


----------



## bronco1015

@Bartig just reviewed the TOZO nc9, and spoke pretty highly of the noise canceling. If you were interested in them, or just need something to buy, go read his review and on the Amazon link theres currently a 20% off coupon so you can snag them for $48.


----------



## Shadowclash10

So at first I was thinking of getting wired IEMs with an adapter, like the TRN BT20S, but I just didn't like the design, quality, etc. So now I want a decent TWS IEM (so can I just take any TWS that fits into your ear canal and call it an IEM, or is there some further definition?). To be honest, I am not super fussed about sound quality - whenever I would be in a situation where I am using TWS and not my planar magnetic cans , means that I am in a situation where audio quality isn't super important. I've come up with 3 options: Galaxy Buds +, Sony WF-SP800N, and nuarl n6 pros. Advice?


----------



## Spidermanxd

Galaxy bud+ is your best options, as it is cheaper than the other 2 and also fit are also way better


----------



## Shadowclash10

Spidermanxd said:


> Galaxy bud+ is your best options, as it is cheaper than the other 2 and also fit are also way better


I really like almost everything about them. BTW how is passive isolation on them? The only thing is no ANC compared to the Sony WF-SP800N, and maybe a worse fit for minor exercise?


----------



## chinmie (Jul 6, 2020)

Darkestred said:


> I've been posting a lot of sales for the WF-1000XM3 and i have never listened to them.  haha.  Anyways, i bought a refurb set on ebay for $90.  Curiosity has
> 
> 
> 
> ...



agreed with @Spidermanxd
sound being subjective, the GBud+ is hard to beat for everyday casual use. i still using the older non + version, and loving the size and ease of use. the sound while may be not for everyone, is not a slouch too. 

compared to the SP800N, it might not have ANC, but the passive isolation of the GBud alone is quite good. and while it doesn't have higher ipx rating, it will survive light exercise use


----------



## Rayners (Jul 6, 2020)

Hello ! I'm on the verge to go from wired to TWS earphone (i have spent some times with the RedMi Airdots for working out and i liked having no cables + my new phone don't have an headphone jack anymore). The Galaxy Buds + and the AKG N400 seem very tempting but they don't support AptX/LDAC and i don't have a Samsung phone. Is it a big issue when it comes to sound quality when compared to AptX/LDAC TWS ?

Another contender is the MW07 Plus but i'm waiting for a bigger discount (like the 40% i missed).


----------



## Caipirina

bronco1015 said:


> @Bartig just reviewed the TOZO nc9, and spoke pretty highly of the noise canceling. If you were interested in them, or just need something to buy, go read his review and on the Amazon link theres currently a 20% off coupon so you can snag them for $48.


Nice, hopefully that 20% off coupon will also appear on German amazon


----------



## pokenguyen

incursore61 said:


> I agree with you I immediately bought Mw07 Plus with 25% because I am what I wanted..but now, seeing the mtw07 at half the price I ask myself some questions: is there really a difference in sound in favor of plus ??
> in case the difference was not so great, I will simply return the pluses and buy MW07 .... in fact maybe I will buy MW07 now ... ??



MW07 has terrible battery life, stay away from it.



Pairzilla said:


> I would probably call myself a Sennheiser fanboy. I have hd660s as my daily computer headphones. Own hd598s/hd58x/hd6xx so I was really leaning towards buying the MTW2 but with the M&D MW07+ currently on sale I kinda want to buy those. How comparable are they to MTW2? Most YouTubers all say the MTW2 are the best sounding TWS out but I'd believe the word of everyone on this forum before most YouTube reviewers.



I own IE80, HD650 by myself and still prefer MW07 Go to SMTW 1 (the 2 has same SQ I think). They are quite different actually, SMTW voice is fuller and more to your face, while MW07 is more V-shape. The factor that I like about MW07 is the big soundstage and more detail treble while not fatiguing at all.


----------



## webvan (Jul 6, 2020)

Caipirina said:


> Nice, hopefully that 20% off coupon will also appear on German amazon


Yes we need 20% off in Europe too ! So the SP800N has gone to "unavailable" too now on Amazon FR, any news from yours ?
Off to read the NC9 review

EDIT - well it looks like something I want to try ! It's great that you can toggle ANC Off too (unlike on the Echobuds, app or voice command needed) to cut out wind noise when riding a bike. The transparency mode doesn't sound like it works too well (like calls, sort of goes together). I was worried they were on the smaller "pop out of your ears at any time" style but happy to see it's not the case. The Bomaker SiFi II trend continues it seems and that's good news


----------



## incursore61

pokenguyen said:


> MW07 has terrible battery life, stay away from it.
> 
> 
> 
> I own IE80, HD650 by myself and still prefer MW07 Go to SMTW 1 (the 2 has same SQ I think). They are quite different actually, SMTW voice is fuller and more to your face, while MW07 is more V-shape. The factor that I like about MW07 is the big soundstage and more detail treble while not fatiguing at all.




thank you for the information. the sound instead should be equal to the MW07 Plus or am I wrong ..?


----------



## FYLegend

bronco1015 said:


> @Bartig just reviewed the TOZO nc9, and spoke pretty highly of the noise canceling. If you were interested in them, or just need something to buy, go read his review and on the Amazon link theres currently a 20% off coupon so you can snag them for $48.


Note that the TOZO has volume control while the 20Decebel does not.


Shadowclash10 said:


> I really like almost everything about them. BTW how is passive isolation on them? The only thing is no ANC compared to the Sony WF-SP800N, and maybe a worse fit for minor exercise?


Passive isolation is good but not stellar, comparable to IEMs of similar ergonomics. I can still hear loud announcements on my commute unless I have music playing.

Just curious what device you are planning to use it with? The Buds+ work great on mobile devices with either AAC or Samsung Scalable, but are utterly disappointing with Windows 10's SBC codec.


----------



## Caipirina

webvan said:


> Yes we need 20% off in Europe too ! So the SP800N has gone to "unavailable" too now on Amazon FR, any news from yours ?
> Off to read the NC9 review


I have given up on the SP800N ... I had the same kinda hassle 2 years ago with the SP700N! Amazon was jerking around the rls date and I ended up buying at some B&M and kinda regretted not having the easy amazon return ...


----------



## assassin10000 (Jul 6, 2020)

assassin10000 said:


> Forgot to share this here... but modified my X12 Pro's. The airpod/earpod shape isn't as comfortable to me as regular earbud drivers.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Small update, I've noticed with the better earbud drivers that the internal amp on these does not deal well with busy tracks and the sound becomes congested easily. The dynamics and clarity are fine on acoustic, vocal or instrumental tracks but even on normal songs (pop, rock, etc) they become congested.

These are the v.2 of the X12 pro's (Bluetooth 5.0, USB-C & AAC/SBC). I wonder if the v.3 'Ultra' with the Qualcomm chips will be better.


----------



## Caipirina

webvan said:


> EDIT - well it looks like something I want to try ! It's great that you can toggle ANC Off too (unlike on the Echobuds, app or voice command needed) to cut out wind noise when riding a bike. The transparency mode doesn't sound like it works too well (like calls, sort of goes together). I was worried they were on the smaller "pop out of your ears at any time" style but happy to see it's not the case. The Bomaker SiFi II trend continues it seems and that's good news



What puzzles me about those TOZO ... allegedly they have been on amazon since MARCH .. & I  have been searching for new ANC buds from time to time, but why did they never come up in my searches / recommendations? Amazon algorithm fail methinks ...


----------



## georgelai57

Caipirina said:


> What puzzles me about those TOZO ... allegedly they have been on amazon since MARCH .. & I  have been searching for new ANC buds from time to time, but why did they never come up in my searches / recommendations? Amazon algorithm fail methinks ...


Amazon is just looking after your wallet methinks


----------



## Dobrescu George

I made a video review about the B530 PRO from Tranya. I never heard about them before making this video, but for what they made at 50 USD, I really hope I will hear about Tranya in the future!


----------



## eiraku (Jul 6, 2020)

martiniCZ said:


> I was a little bored so I tried to do something I had been thinking about for a long time. I took the hated Bluedio Fi with QCC3020, which even my wife refused to listen to, and made something what I even enjoy listening to. I just transform the TWS to a wireless module like the BT20S, but with a charging case. With the TRN V90 it's a bit noisy, but outside I do not mind. The signal strength is now much more stable, and the microphone recording has also improved. Even the touch autopause works (although stupid as in its original state), unfortunately the other controls almost don't work. There is probably a problem with the calibration of the capacitive sensor during such wear. The quality of workmanship is not much, but it is definitely original  I was just sorry to throw Fi in the trash, where they would otherwise deserve to end up.



Hey there fellow V90 user!

That said my V90 + BT3S combo (despite being superior in every aspect to my TWSes other than size and convenience) has been rather sidelined these days by my L2P unfortunately.

The sheer convenience of TWS is hard to beat really (and the HUGE-ness of the BT3S doesn't help much either).

But if someone can actually take a good gander at what you're doing now and come up with something similar commercially (TWS IEM adapter with charging case that ISN'T overly expansive - ehem, Shure, ehem) I'd be pretty interested TBH.

Or you know, someone can just update the BT20S to include a case to charge it (wink, wink TRN).


----------



## pokenguyen

incursore61 said:


> thank you for the information. the sound instead should be equal to the MW07 Plus or am I wrong ..?


I heard both MW07 and MW07 Go and they are similar in SQ. Battery wise the Plus/Go beat the original version.


----------



## BobJS

Hyperfluxe said:


> Literally in the same boat as you. The solution is to buy both ...



I apologize in advance for my off-topic "rant".  I'm showing my age.  I know this has become common usage, but "back in my day", if you were literally in the same boat, you would mean both of you are in a lake or off shore on the same watercraft.

You mean to say you are _figuratively_ in the same boat.  Or just "in the same boat".  _Literally_ in the same boat is not what you mean to say.

Sorry about that.  I apologize.  Been online a while today and reached my quota of "literally"s.


----------



## TYATYA

Who can draw a free curve manually on paper and then set it as a Walet auto eq?
Pls help.
I am stucking after digital the curve to obtain data in xls form as like Hz; dB

Exam. 20;2.6 24;1.9 26;-0.7 ... 20000;-3.4

The job require some IT skill which I am not good at: Python, vituenv... wavelet app devs write a guidance that I think its for IT man to follow.
Too complicate python python python!!!


----------



## Shadowclash10

BobJS said:


> I apologize in advance for my off-topic "rant".  I'm showing my age.  I know this has become common usage, but "back in my day", if you were literally in the same boat, you would mean both of you are in a lake or off shore on the same watercraft.
> 
> You mean to say you are _figuratively_ in the same boat.  Or just "in the same boat".  _Literally_ in the same boat is not what you mean to say.
> 
> Sorry about that.  I apologize.  Been online a while today and reached my quota of "literally"s.


 Maybe @Hyperfluxe meant literally as in when people just say literally for emphasis.


----------



## Shadowclash10

Dobrescu George said:


> I made a video review about the B530 PRO from Tranya. I never heard about them before making this video, but for what they made at 50 USD, I really hope I will hear about Tranya in the future!



If I remember correctly, Tranya has a similar version called the Rimor.


----------



## Shadowclash10

Really on the fence between the Galaxy Buds + and the Sony WF-SP700N. Galaxy Buds + are cheaper, look better IMHO, better clarity (?), more sleek case, great quick charging. Sony has ANC, better stability for basic workouts (?), slightly better battery life.


----------



## Shadowclash10

LOL. Everyone who buys cheap TWSs in gaint batches, this is your fault! Amazon suggestions are now biased and instead of sugggestion alternate tips, battery packs, etc, Amazon ius suggesting that I buy 3 pairs of TWS together XD.


----------



## musiclover2015 (Jul 6, 2020)

Got my Phaiser Fusion one yesterday & found it amazing loud & punchy out of the box. So far, I have been impressed with its loudness which most of the TWS buds lack...Yet to test the calling, battery life & ease of use. Since I have both Jbuds Air Icon & Phaiser at this point, plan to perform a side by side comparison soon.


----------



## ilatimer1

Just wondering if anyone has used the Wavelet app on Android and what their thoughts were?


----------



## musiclover2015

ilatimer1 said:


> Just wondering if anyone has used the Wavelet app on Android and what their thoughts were?


Along the same lines, what's an equivalent app for ios?


----------



## jasonb (Jul 6, 2020)

ilatimer1 said:


> Just wondering if anyone has used the Wavelet app on Android and what their thoughts were?


I use it with the autoEQ and the Sony WF1000xm3 along with Spotify. I think it works great.

I also use it with an AKG K371 with the autoEQ and like that as well.


----------



## musiclover2015 (Jul 6, 2020)

Darkestred said:


> I've been posting a lot of sales for the WF-1000XM3 and i have never listened to them.  haha.  Anyways, i bought a refurb set on ebay for $90.  Curiosity has piqued and killed this cat.


Maybe it's just me, but Sony headphone's signature has never satisfied me...From its line of 15-350$ headphones, the sound is the same muddy & muffled for my listening, with the poorest separation & soundstage. I've given up on testing anything by Sony now.


----------



## Darkestred

musiclover2015 said:


> Maybe it's just me, but Sony headphone's signature has never satisfied me...From its line of 15-350$ headphones, the sound is the same muddy & muffled for my listening, with the poorest separation & soundstage. I've given up on testing anything by Sony now.



I bought them sort of knowing that.  I already own the Nuarl N6 and L2P.  I figure at the very worst i sell them at a loss - which is no big deal.  Either that or they become my backup to the N6 when watching entertainment from my shield and the far-off and most improbable scenario: i can use the ANC when im out and about for calls.


----------



## Dobrescu George

Shadowclash10 said:


> If I remember correctly, Tranya has a similar version called the Rimor.


Yes, I think I will try to get my hands on and review that one too!


----------



## d3myz

hifi80sman said:


> Yep, I believe they are.  I'm not sure if it's an official exclusive, but I have not see it anywhere else in terms of an authorized retailer.
> 
> Are you looking to pick them up?  I like them quite a bit and calls work better compared to the XM3 which make you sound a little muffled.


I was seriously thinking about it, but I missed them when they were on sale for 160ish. I’ve been kind of on hold lately with buying earbuds. I’m waiting for the Panasonic RZ-S500W to come out.


----------



## Shadowclash10

d3myz said:


> I was seriously thinking about it, but I missed them when they were on sale for 160ish. I’ve been kind of on hold lately with buying earbuds. I’m waiting for the Panasonic RZ-S500W to come out.


Wait, those already came out.


----------



## d3myz

I just received an email about the Tronsmart Apollo Bold being released I’m Mid July. Have they been discussed? 


Active Noise Cancellation: 35dB full frequency active noise cancelling and 2 patented noise-cancelling technologies which can block out your environment so you can focus on what you’re listening to.
Perfect Listening Experience: High-quality aptX HD audio decoding and Qualcomm QCC5124 flagship chip which bring you perfect listening experience.
TWS+ Technology: TWS+ binaural synchronous transmission technology, which makes sound and picture synchronization while playing games with earbuds.
Support Quick Charge: 10 mins charging for 1-hour use.


----------



## d3myz

Shadowclash10 said:


> Wait, those already came out.


July 12th. You can pre-order them on Amazon.us


----------



## Mouseman

Dobrescu George said:


> Yes, I think I will try to get my hands on and review that one too!


I think you're going to find them very different than the B530s. I don't have the Pros, but the "original" ones are some of my favorites. The Rimors were awful in terms of SQ. I've seen a few people who liked them, but to me they were one of the worst pairs I have (and I got them for "free").

You should try to get hold of some of their new T10s. It's the flagship of the brand, and I'm not sure I've seen any reviews.


----------



## Dobrescu George

Mouseman said:


> I think you're going to find them very different than the B530s. I don't have the Pros, but the "original" ones are some of my favorites. The Rimors were awful in terms of SQ. I've seen a few people who liked them, but to me they were one of the worst pairs I have (and I got them for "free").
> 
> You should try to get hold of some of their new T10s. It's the flagship of the brand, and I'm not sure I've seen any reviews.



Oh, good stuff, I should check that out!


----------



## axhng (Jul 6, 2020)

http://www.cca-earphone.com/en/pro/tws bluetooth headset/

CX10 and CX1 spotted on CCA website. No other details though.

CX10





CX1





EDIT: found a bit more chatter on it from yesterday
https://www.ptt.cc/bbs/Headphone/M.1594026844.A.A2B.html

from what I can loosely translate;
"1DD+4BA setup on each side, even better performance.
10 drivers in total, achieving sound quality as good as wired"

Game mode, AAC codec, BT5.0.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Shadowclash10 said:


> LOL. Everyone who buys cheap TWSs in gaint batches, this is your fault! Amazon suggestions are now biased and instead of sugggestion alternate tips, battery packs, etc, Amazon ius suggesting that I buy 3 pairs of TWS together XD.



OMG, that is hilarious! You're welcome.


----------



## assassin10000

d3myz said:


> I just received an email about the Tronsmart Apollo Bold being released I’m Mid July. Have they been discussed?
> 
> 
> Active Noise Cancellation: 35dB full frequency active noise cancelling and 2 patented noise-cancelling technologies which can block out your environment so you can focus on what you’re listening to.
> ...



Hmmm. May be decent. Wish it had Qi charging.


----------



## eiraku

d3myz said:


> I just received an email about the Tronsmart Apollo Bold being released I’m Mid July. Have they been discussed?
> 
> 
> Active Noise Cancellation: 35dB full frequency active noise cancelling and 2 patented noise-cancelling technologies which can block out your environment so you can focus on what you’re listening to.
> ...



If this doesn't end up sounding like a steaming pile of crap, I'm in. Am also a bit miffed there's no Qi tho.


----------



## d3myz

Dobrescu George said:


> Oh, good stuff, I should check that out!


Personally I wouldn’t waste your time with the Rimor, I’ve had three different pair and I’ve tried for days and days to like them and I just think they’re borderline terrible. However they are really good if all you do is listen to audiobooks


----------



## d3myz

Anyone else on here get a DM from Tronsmart?


----------



## chinmie

d3myz said:


> Anyone else on here get a DM from Tronsmart?



i did


----------



## bronco1015

d3myz said:


> Anyone else on here get a DM from Tronsmart?


I heard about them in this thread, they actually posted in here last week. i messaged them and got a reply.


----------



## bronco1015

HeadphoneAddict said:


> OMG, that is hilarious! You're welcome.


How do you feel about your m30plus after a week or so?


----------



## TYATYA

ilatimer1 said:


> Just wondering if anyone has used the Wavelet app on Android and what their thoughts were?



Improved all tws I tried.
It is better to use autoeq then one or 2 bands adjustment by using its graphic eq. 

Weak point: compatibility app is not so many. Ex., did not support Youtuben tidal (my device)


----------



## Bobbetybob (Jul 7, 2020)

My Edifier X3 have arrived.






Quick pros and cons list so far:

*Pros*
Case is perfect, I've been dying for a case this size, properly pocketable, fits in the pointless small pocket in jeans (the Linus test) and leaves enough room to fit a finger in and fish it out.

Buds fit in the case with my medium Spinfit CP360's and medium Sony hybrid tips on AND charge properly, so a small set that also fits (some, I'm making no guarantees!) third party buds, finally! And of course it's somehow the one with the smallest case.

Sound generally seems pretty nice, they're bright with a nice bass thump and they can get seriously loud.

Build quality seems good. The lid on the case is just plastic hitting plastic but still manages to feel pleasantly snappy rather than cheap, hinge feels solid.

Video latency seems as good as most TWS these days (I.e. pretty much perfect)

Fit and comfort is also good, always helps when you can tip roll even if not every set are going to fit (I'll try some longer ones tomorrow and edit the results in). They're quite round too so fill the ear and provide good isolation.

*Cons*
As far as I can tell there's no AAC which is a bit annoying as a mostly iPhone user these days.

No volume control, but the touch controls outside of this seem to work well, it has one of those all in one bud setups so both buds can control play/pause/foward/back/assistant independently for mono use.

Micro-usb, boooo!

They have a little blue light on each earpiece that blinks every couple of seconds, not an issue for me but could be annoying for those who want to use them in bed.

I'd say a pretty easy recommendation so far, especially if you pick them up when they're £15/$20, they're a perfect cheap gym pair to slip in your pocket (they're IP55 rated too which is nice)


----------



## BobJS

Shadowclash10 said:


> Maybe @Hyperfluxe meant literally as in when people just say literally for emphasis.



Of course he did.  I was just griping that the word has acquired a new  [overused] usage (even supported in the dictionary), whereas in the past it was only used to mean the opposite of _figuratively_.


----------



## webvan

So is anyone else getting the Tozo NC9 ? Amazon Europe don't appear to be in a hurry to add that 20% coupon !
There seem to be some "button tap" differences between the Tozo and the 20Decebel versions, the Tozo has Vol +/- with a long press (that's Google Assistance on the 20Decebel apparently) and no ANC ON/Transparency/ANC OFF cycling, only ANC ON/Transparency.


----------



## ModestMase

Jumping into this thread to hopefully get some current recommendations. My trusty Samsung Level U Pros are finally about to kick the bucket. Battery lasts less than an hour on a full charge now. But I've had them and put them through years of abuse, so no complaints.

What would y'all say is the best TWS option in the $150ish range. Some wiggle room if it's worth the jump.  I had planned to pick up galaxy buds+ but I'm not certain that's my best option nowadays. ANC is not a priority, the sound is. All my other headphones are quite neutral, so I'm wondering if I should get something different this time. Something more energetic, better for metal genres perhaps.

Any opinions?


----------



## Shadowclash10

Bobbetybob said:


> My Edifier X3 have arrived.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I was reading this, and I saw no AAC, no volume, micro-usb, and I was like NO WAY. And then I saw that the price was $20. Budget buds continue to amaze me. It just makes me upset that to get like 20% more features/sound/whatever, I have to fork over hundreds more.


----------



## Shadowclash10

ModestMase said:


> Jumping into this thread to hopefully get some current recommendations. My trusty Samsung Level U Pros are finally about to kick the bucket. Battery lasts less than an hour on a full charge now. But I've had them and put them through years of abuse, so no complaints.
> 
> What would y'all say is the best TWS option in the $150ish range. Some wiggle room if it's worth the jump.  I had planned to pick up galaxy buds+ but I'm not certain that's my best option nowadays. ANC is not a priority, the sound is. All my other headphones are quite neutral, so I'm wondering if I should get something different this time. Something more energetic, better for metal genres perhaps.
> 
> Any opinions?


I was considering the Buds+ too, because decent SQ, amazing battery life, comfort, small case, etc. Just not sure...


----------



## Shadowclash10

Does anyone know of a way to add removable earhooks to non-earhook TWSs?


----------



## posnera

Shadowclash10 said:


> Does anyone know of a way to add removable earhooks to non-earhook TWSs?



It's all going to depend on the shape of the bud.

https://www.amazon.com/Far-End-Gear-BudLoks-Earphone/dp/B0195OPLKK


----------



## TK33

Shadowclash10 said:


> I was considering the Buds+ too, because decent SQ, amazing battery life, comfort, small case, etc. Just not sure...


I'm still on the fence as well. The price just dropped $10 and I have another $10 coupon from Samsung lying around somewhere so I may go for it.  Anyone use it with LG phones? Have some V60s on the way that will probably replace my S9 so I wont have access to the Samsung scalable codec. I really just want it for calls and ambient mode.


----------



## Shadowclash10

posnera said:


> It's all going to depend on the shape of the bud.
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/Far-End-Gear-BudLoks-Earphone/dp/B0195OPLKK


Ahh. Actually I was wondering if there was a way to add around-the-ear earhooks - wouldn't those be more stable for workouts?


----------



## Bobbetybob

Shadowclash10 said:


> I was reading this, and I saw no AAC, no volume, micro-usb, and I was like NO WAY. And then I saw that the price was $20. Budget buds continue to amaze me. It just makes me upset that to get like 20% more features/sound/whatever, I have to fork over hundreds more.


Yeah I also have a hard time justifying the extra cost for something that is essentially disposable as well.

To be fair even though they don't have AAC they do have Aptx so if you've got an Android phone they should sound better (I've dug out the old Motorola I have as a spare to test them later).


----------



## mikp

Those sound interesting, wonder what price point they have?  They look like something ive seen before
Currently of the ones I have mtw2 is first, then mavins, jabra 65 and syllable s101.



d3myz said:


> I just received an email about the Tronsmart Apollo Bold being released I’m Mid July. Have they been discussed?
> 
> 
> Active Noise Cancellation: 35dB full frequency active noise cancelling and 2 patented noise-cancelling technologies which can block out your environment so you can focus on what you’re listening to.
> ...


----------



## VICosPhi

Sennheiser MTW2 does not have a mute button on them to mute yourself during phone calls, correct?


----------



## doo_wop (Jul 7, 2020)

mikp said:


> Those sound interesting, wonder what price point they have?  They look like something ive seen before
> Currently of the ones I have mtw2 is first, then mavins, jabra 65 and syllable s101.



very original design indeed


----------



## martiniCZ

Shadowclash10 said:


> Ahh. Actually I was wondering if there was a way to add around-the-ear earhooks - wouldn't those be more stable for workouts?


For what TWS, something like this for earpods?
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/400...earchweb0_0,searchweb201602_,searchweb201603_


----------



## posnera

Shadowclash10 said:


> Ahh. Actually I was wondering if there was a way to add around-the-ear earhooks - wouldn't those be more stable for workouts?


Those exist too.
https://www.amazon.com/Marnana-flex...9&sr=1-1-12d4272d-8adb-4121-8624-135149aa9081


----------



## Shadowclash10

martiniCZ said:


> For what TWS, something like this for earpods?
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/400...earchweb0_0,searchweb201602_,searchweb201603_


Galaxy Buds +. Or would you say that most TWS are stable enough that this would be unnecessary for basic, non-intense workouts?


----------



## martiniCZ (Jul 7, 2020)

Shadowclash10 said:


> Galaxy Buds +. Or would you say that most TWS are stable enough that this would be unnecessary for basic, non-intense workouts?


With proper size of eartips and silicon rings definitely enough and if not, it is probably better buy some sports eardphones with earhooks. For galaxy buds and most other in ear TWS you won't find earhooks.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict (Jul 7, 2020)

bronco1015 said:


> How do you feel about your m30plus after a week or so?



The M30 are slowly opening up a little - still a good buy for $30 although not as airy and detailed as I would like for my primary TWS.

*But the M30 Plus at $39 are just what the doctor ordered*, as long as I don't go for a deep insertion which flexes the drivers and binds them up. The good news is that the tips they included grab onto my ears without a deep insertion, and the wings help keep them in place, so I can lightly or gently place them in my ears and get a seal with good bass and treble air and detail. For some reason the regular M30 don't bind up no matter how hard I squish them into my ears, but they still don't sound as good as my M30 Plus.

The $49 FIIL T1X maybe sound similar, except they were nearly impossible to get a good fit without the driver flex binding up the drivers, while with 3rd party tips I could get a proper seal 2-3 out of 5 tries, and then the T1X sound good. *With the M30 Plus I can get a proper fit and seal 9 out of 10 tries with the stock tips, if I start with going for a shallow insertion, and that's good enough for me.*

I'd still like to know if anyone else has the M30 Plus with this issue, and if not I'm worried that they would sound more like the regular M30 - maybe I have a looser or more free driver that can reproduce sound better?


----------



## willyk

Mouseman said:


> You should try to get hold of some of their new T10s. It's the flagship of the brand, and I'm not sure I've seen any reviews.



I am one of those owners who thinks the Rimors are amazing - to each their own!  I also own a couple pair of the B530's which, while good, just don't seem to cut it for me after listening to the Rimors.  The only knock on the Rimors is that when running, they skip a bit (like most do with my Garmin watch), but then the Rimor tends to lose pitch - going down then back up more than a full step - it drives me crazy!  But for casual listening using my phone as the source, the Rimors just kill, IMO.

I am interested in the T10's.  Has anyone tried them yet?


----------



## assassin10000 (Jul 7, 2020)

ModestMase said:


> Jumping into this thread to hopefully get some current recommendations. My trusty Samsung Level U Pros are finally about to kick the bucket. Battery lasts less than an hour on a full charge now. But I've had them and put them through years of abuse, so no complaints.
> 
> What would y'all say is the best TWS option in the $150ish range. Some wiggle room if it's worth the jump.  I had planned to pick up galaxy buds+ but I'm not certain that's my best option nowadays. ANC is not a priority, the sound is. All my other headphones are quite neutral, so I'm wondering if I should get something different this time. Something more energetic, better for metal genres perhaps.
> 
> Any opinions?



Depends, are you treble or peaky mid-high sensitive? If you are it may be better to get the regular buds that are closer tuned to the older harman curve iirc. I EQ'ed my buds+ down a bit for shoutiness/harshness on some tracks.


The battery life is compelling, ambient was neat but too treble focused. Sound was ok to good but not enough for me to keep them. I much more enjoy my Air-XR's SQ even at about half the battery life (6hrs).




TK33 said:


> I'm still on the fence as well. The price just dropped $10 and I have another $10 coupon from Samsung lying around somewhere so I may go for it.  Anyone use it with LG phones? Have some V60s on the way that will probably replace my S9 so I wont have access to the Samsung scalable codec. I really just want it for calls and ambient mode.



They do have AAC. It's the SBC when used with older phones, devices without AAC like windows laptops where sound an issue. Afaik.


----------



## FYLegend

Shadowclash10 said:


> LOL. Everyone who buys cheap TWSs in gaint batches, this is your fault! Amazon suggestions are now biased and instead of sugggestion alternate tips, battery packs, etc, Amazon ius suggesting that I buy 3 pairs of TWS together XD.


Unfortunately only the Soundpeats of these is in Amazon.ca wearhouses. Otherwise they could be purchased through Amazon.com but that would be another 20$ for shipping.. Sellers are reluctant to put their latest products there and they end up being sold by grey market sellers. A Tranya rep told me the Rimor was coming to Amazon.ca but it never happened, probably in part due to COVID.



webvan said:


> So is anyone else getting the Tozo NC9 ? Amazon Europe don't appear to be in a hurry to add that 20% coupon !
> There seem to be some "button tap" differences between the Tozo and the 20Decebel versions, the Tozo has Vol +/- with a long press (that's Google Assistance on the 20Decebel apparently) and no ANC ON/Transparency/ANC OFF cycling, only ANC ON/Transparency.


So you can't turn off ANC and transparency with the TOZO? Sounds like a dealbreaker if you want to save battery life.

Seems like manufacturers are reluctant to add more taps (most I've seen is 4 taps on the Aufo M1 to trigger transparency mode, and it's extremely finicky) and they know Airpods Pro lack volume control anyway so they think it isn't a big deal.

Any thoughts on the Aukey/Key Series KSOUND K06NC? The housings seem like a copy of the Libratone Track Air but with ANC, and reviews are quite mixed. Doesn't have AptX and no volume controls... 
https://www.amazon.ca/gp/product/B0...&pf_rd_p=05326fd5-c43e-4948-99b1-a65b129fdd73

ENACFIRE seems late to the USB-C type train but wondering if anyone has tried the E60. USB-C + Wireless charging + AptX + Volume control and IPX8, no ANC
https://www.amazon.ca/ENACFIRE-Head...ild=1&keywords=ENACFIRE&qid=1594155189&sr=8-1



martiniCZ said:


> With proper size of eartips and silicon rings definitely enough and if not, it is probably better buy some sports eardphones with earhooks. For galaxy buds and most other in ear TWS you won't find earhooks.


Buds+ don't really stay well in my ears if I'm dancing or walking around. The large fins are too large and the medium ones too small to make any difference. No-fins is most comfortable but in some situations they don't feel as secure. I'm using large tips because while the medium tips fit better, they easily lose their seal whenever I flinch my forehead.


----------



## Shadowclash10

assassin10000 said:


> Depends, are you treble or peaky mid-high sensitive? If you are it may be better to get the regular buds that are closer tuned to the older harman curve iirc. I EQ'ed my buds+ down a bit for shoutiness/harshness on some tracks.
> 
> 
> The battery life is compelling, ambient was neat but too treble focused. Sound was ok to good but not enough for me to keep them. I much more enjoy my Air-XR's SQ even at about half the battery life (6hrs).
> ...


Although if I have a good bluetooth transmitter that also supports AAC, I should be fine, right?


----------



## logiatype

Shadowclash10 said:


> Although if I have a good bluetooth transmitter that also supports AAC, I should be fine, right?


No AAC transmitters for windows that I know off. They all seem to be based on Qualcom chipsets


----------



## Pairzilla

Can anyone recommend a good EQ app for apple and Android? I ended up with the mw07+ they sound great just want to play with the sound a bit


----------



## Sam L

Pairzilla said:


> Can anyone recommend a good EQ app for apple and Android? I ended up with the mw07+ they sound great just want to play with the sound a bit


For Android, power eq. Saves something like 15 profiles.


----------



## musiclover2015

*Looking for recommendations: *

I am currently testing Jbuds Air Icon & Phaiser Fusion One. In Past, I have tested Senn Momentum 1 & my ears don't settle with anything that says 'Sony', so those aren't an option for me.

Here are my criteria for selection:

*Must-haves:*

Best TWS sound quality possible with deep bass, clear mids & exciting highs, pretty much a U-shaped signature.
Must be able to get loud enough. (for reference: something like Phaiser Fusion One)
Acceptable call quality.
Decent battery life.
App controls like eq etc. (this can slide to the nice to haves for a deserving pair)
*Nice to haves:*

USB-C
Multi-device connection
IPX5 or above.
Thanks in advance.


----------



## FYLegend

logiatype said:


> No AAC transmitters for windows that I know off. They all seem to be based on Qualcom chipsets


Unfortunately not. The Hagibis X2 claims to have AAC but it connects to 3.5mm and thus needs to be charged separately with microUSB.

SBC on the Buds+ is pretty awful in my experience. Unless your Bluetooth driver is somehow able to force a high bitrate the treble can be very distorted.


----------



## Shadowclash10

What about this Monoprice AAC transmitter/reciever?


----------



## Shadowclash10

I think what I will do is I will wait for the new Galaxy Buds (Live). Hopefully they have ANC, and maybe spatial audio, and they retain the $150 pricepoint, small case size, great battery life, etc. I just hope that they don't mess things up with this rumored bean style. If they do, then I will just grab the Buds+, which should be discounted by $30-60.


----------



## Luchyres (Jul 8, 2020)

musiclover2015 said:


> *Looking for recommendations: *
> 
> I am currently testing Jbuds Air Icon & Phaiser Fusion One. In Past, I have tested Senn Momentum 1 & my ears don't settle with anything that says 'Sony', so those aren't an option for me.
> 
> ...


Nuarl n6 edit: As my fellow headfi'ers kindly reminded - only IPX4
Akg n400 - got a lot of frills, I'm getting them for the sound, worried the case is a little big - but I think it hits all of your other requests.


----------



## FYLegend

Shadowclash10 said:


> What about this Monoprice AAC transmitter/reciever?


Sadly no, if you look at the spec sheet, AAC is only supported when used as a receiver, not as a Bluetooth transmitter.


----------



## Darkestred

Luchyres said:


> Nuarl n6
> Akg n400



Nuarl n6 has to be knocked off that list.  IPX4.


----------



## musiclover2015

Luchyres said:


> Nuarl n6
> Akg n400


Thanks & how about soundcore liberty pro?


----------



## assassin10000 (Jul 8, 2020)

Shadowclash10 said:


> I think what I will do is I will wait for the new Galaxy Buds (Live). Hopefully they have ANC, and maybe spatial audio, and they retain the $150 pricepoint, small case size, great battery life, etc. I just hope that they don't mess things up with this rumored bean style. If they do, then I will just grab the Buds+, which should be discounted by $30-60.



You can already find them for $120 or less new on eBay. Just get a 'US' version for samsung warranty reasons.




Luchyres said:


> Nuarl n6
> Akg n400





musiclover2015 said:


> Thanks & how about soundcore liberty pro?



I'd avoid the L2P's. Mids are recessed IMO. Granted they can be EQ'ed. Battery life barely made what is average now (4-4.5hrs) on my pair, although 8 hours is claimed (may require Qualcomm TWS+).

I'd add the Air-XR's to the list (despite no app). They're my current favorites. Unsure on call quality, I've only used them for calls maybe twice. They have micro usb but I got the Qi version, so I wirelessly charge them.


----------



## Darkestred

musiclover2015 said:


> Thanks & how about soundcore liberty pro?


theyre good. as mentioned mids are slightly recessed.  not horrible.  Bass could be an issue if youre not a basshead.  My (not that it matters) favorite tws to date.


----------



## Toom (Jul 8, 2020)

Was just cleaning a bit of wax from my MTW 2s (sorry, gross I know) using a pin, and managed to pull out the little foam filter in the earpiece. It came out easily, so I figured I would remove the other one too and see how that affected the sound.

Loving it! Your mileage my vary of course, but I feel (with the eq set to neutral on the Senn app) that the treble clarity which was a little bit lacking has now been resolved.

Ace.


----------



## harpdoc

TK33 said:


> I'm still on the fence as well. The price just dropped $10 and I have another $10 coupon from Samsung lying around somewhere so I may go for it.  Anyone use it with LG phones? Have some V60s on the way that will probably replace my S9 so I wont have access to the Samsung scalable codec. I really just want it for calls and ambient mode.



I got the Buds+ when they first came out and tried them for a week with an LG V50. I thought the ambient mode was excellent and they were fine for phone calls. Unfortunately, I was quite disappointed with the sound quality. I could not get them to where I liked them regardless of the EQ settings. Maybe the wavelet app would help. I'm not sure if the codec was responsible for my disappointment, if I got a bad batch, or if it is just personal taste. So many factors with these things. My other frustration with them was that none of my foam tips would fit in the case.

I replaced them with master and dynamic mw07+ and have not looked back since. I love the sound quality and they are excellent for phone calls. However, the ambient mode is not as good. It's okay for my purposes but the buds+ are pretty cool with the four different volume settings, one of which basically turns them into hearing aids.


----------



## webvan

Caipirina said:


> I have given up on the SP800N ... I had the same kinda hassle 2 years ago with the SP700N! Amazon was jerking around the rls date and I ended up buying at some B&M and kinda regretted not having the easy amazon return ...



So Amazon FR are now saying "01 August 2020 - 05 September 2020" for the delivery of the SP800N, what a joke ! 

In better news I sent back the MTW2 as I just could not justify their 299€ price given my other goto TWEs (SiFi II, EchoBuds and L2Ps) even though they're probably the first TWE that ticks all the boxes...at 199€ maybe ! To have something to look forward to I ordered the Tozo NC9 that should reach me on Friday and I promise I'll get to the bottom of this control option confusion. Now if they don't have ANC ON/Transparency/ANC OFF cycling like the Decebel20 reviewed by Bartig I don't think I'll be able to keep them as ANC OFF is a must when riding a bike (where wearing TWEs is safe of course).


----------



## hifi80sman

harpdoc said:


> I got the Buds+ when they first came out and tried them for a week with an LG V50. I thought the ambient mode was excellent and they were fine for phone calls. Unfortunately, I was quite disappointed with the sound quality. I could not get them to where I liked them regardless of the EQ settings. Maybe the wavelet app would help. I'm not sure if the codec was responsible for my disappointment, if I got a bad batch, or if it is just personal taste. So many factors with these things. My other frustration with them was that none of my foam tips would fit in the case.
> 
> I replaced them with master and dynamic mw07+ and have not looked back since. I love the sound quality and they are excellent for phone calls. However, the ambient mode is not as good. It's okay for my purposes but the buds+ are pretty cool with the four different volume settings, one of which basically turns them into hearing aids.


Completely agree on the MW07 Plus.  I would describe the sound as "legit".  Even SBC performance with an iPhone blows away most other TWS'.


----------



## Shadowclash10

assassin10000 said:


> You can already find them for $120 or less new on eBay. Just get a 'US' version for samsung warranty reasons.


I know, but considering that I am not going out as much right now , having a pair of TWS isn't so important - I can wait a month or two. The Buds + tick all of the boxes, except no aptX, and no ANC, so I am hoping the new Buds are perfect for me.


----------



## AudioNoob

Just received Earfun Air from Earfun. They are consistent in making well rounders that you can give as gifts with decent instruction and straightforward interfaces that are well built from case to cable, the long battery life, auto-pause on remove, and ipx7 helps as well. The sound signature is forgiving with some roll off on both ends, on the warm side without being boomy, perhaps the mids are a touch recessed or sound as much without the sub-bass to support some timbres. I'll write a more detailed review later. The microphone is really outstanding, I was able to make a clear recording with my head adjacent to the window-ac rumbling and blowing air at my face at the same time. All around pretty good without being exceptional on the sound front.


----------



## VICosPhi

Sams's club has a deal on Galaxy Buds+ @$119.98 for anyone interested


----------



## go0gle

assassin10000 said:


> You can already find them for $120 or less new on eBay. Just get a 'US' version for samsung warranty reasons.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I get around 6-7 hours out of my LP2s with an iPhone ..

love the way they sound too


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

I took my APP to the Apple Store today because at first I started to hear a clicking in the left and then right in ANC mode, that might have been the internal microphone picking up my heart-beat pounding in my ear and feeding it back to me. Then it would start clicking with other kinds of movement. 

But then they got so bad that anytime I talked with transparency mode on that both earpieces would feed my voice back into the earpiece with it sounding like I was a robot, or talking through a Kazoo or had a piece of tinfoil stretched over a comb in front of my mouth (I'm dating myself there). I called Apple and they sent me a link to get an appointment, but I could not make an AirPods Pro appointment via the support app, so I went in.

This was my first trip out of the house to go to a store in ages, armed N95 mask, Clorox wipes, and sanitizer - all things that I've kept around for ages due to my lung disease. I know, stupid to leave the house. I waited 3 hours for my appointment, much of it outside with 95 degree heat and a non-functioning left lung, trying to suck air thru a mask; so I had to go to Best Buy and the grocery store to get out of the heat while trying to avoid getting CoVid-19 in those places.

Once I got in I explained everything and mentioned the threads on macrumors.com, and demonstrated that the issue didn't happen with their demo set + my tips. When I got the robot voice hear-thru audio one time it triggered my ASMR reflex and made me shiver and yank them out of my ears in front of them (goosebumps).

The "Genius" admitted it sounded (no pun intended) like both sides were bad, but he tried to tell me that a single bad one could make both act up, and since the left was worse that we should try replacing that first. He gave me a story about how they treat each ear earpiece plus the case as 3 separate pieces, and they can only do ONE exchange at a time. They wanted to replace just the left earpiece and I wasn't having it. With the left earpiece out and on the table, and the music paused, the right one still acted up while I was there.

I told them I'm too high risk to do this all over again, that I live on the farthest other end of town, and I'm going out of state next week for my daughter's birthday (she is self isolating too), and that I simply could not return in the next day or two and go through all of this over again and be exposed more, just to get the other earpiece replaced (I was happy to keep my battery pack). I kindly asked for the manager.

He went to get her but came back 5 minutes later with a new sealed AirPods and no manager, and he did a "late exchange" for the entire thing, including another 2 years of Apple Care. I had brought in my box, unused charge cable, and unused tips, of which they kept all but the tips that I had actually used and gave me a new sealed package with a new 2 yr apple care warranty!

I thanked them profusely and told everyone to stay safe and went home very happy.

At the store they were acting fine, but they were still on firmware 2D15. I knew that when I put them in the case and charged the case that it will likely update to 2D27, and hoped that would not cause any new issues. But my old ones on 2D27 sounded a little warmer and fuller, more solid and enjoyable. I was still worried that I didn't have the "clicking" and the "buzzing/rattle" until after 2D27 was applied, but peep on the forums were sure it was not the firmware.

*IMPRESSIONS:* The background clicking in ANC mode is totally gone with the new set, and so is the rattle with talking while in transparency mode. Also, they did update to 2D27 and I do think that the bass increased again, like it did when my first set updated recently (my first set was from Nov 2019). I also think that the ANC got quieter with 2D27.

I actually feel the ANC "suck" again, felt best after dropping from transparency mode to passive noise blocking and then dropping down again to ANC. I can tell I have a great seal and passive isolation with the active modes off, and then when I go to ANC mode from there the vacuum sensation is real, like it was when I received my first pair last November.

With 2D27 the sound is definitely better with the active modes off, where before it was more bland and basic sounding with just passive noise mode and now they seem more powerful and punchy without having to use transparency or ANC mode to get that EQ-like punch. It still improves a little with the active modes turned on.


----------



## Caipirina (Jul 9, 2020)

webvan said:


> To have something to look forward to I ordered the Tozo NC9 that should reach me on Friday and I promise I'll get to the bottom of this control option confusion. Now if they don't have ANC ON/Transparency/ANC OFF cycling like the Decebel20 reviewed by Bartig I don't think I'll be able to keep them as ANC OFF is a must when riding a bike (where wearing TWEs is safe of course).


I am still waiting for Deal of the Day or 20% off ... but i know that before the end of the month I will want to get my grubby hands on those Tozo as well ...

Unrelated side note, I used my Bose SSF for my run this morning, they are now .. 1.5 years old? Battery reminder kicked in at 3h20min, just when I was about to finish today's route   Not bad


----------



## webvan

Wow a 3h20 run, impressive, especially with these temperatures ! I'll report back on the NC9 after I get them tomorrow but the bewildering lack of an "ANC OFF" toggle makes me think I won't be keeping them for very long...how silly of Tozo to have removed that option when the 20Decebel version has it !


----------



## hifihov

Bhelpoori said:


> Toothfairy is simply making nice clothes around something that is in the Mac already. Developers (or you) can get for free the same thing with Bluetooth Explorer which is an Apple utility for testing Bluetooth that is developer friendly. What they are both doing is Tool/Audio Option dialog, if I remember correctly.
> 
> Personally, I find the price of Toothfairy fair for what it is, developers responsive and if it doesn't work then since it is on Mac App Store you may be able to ask Apple for your money back if it doesn't work.


It didn't work as I got to the bottom of the issue, the Buds+ aren’t compatible with 2015 edition of Mac Books.

Tested on a 2019 version and works a treat


----------



## Caipirina

webvan said:


> Wow a 3h20 run, impressive, especially with these temperatures ! I'll report back on the NC9 after I get them tomorrow but the bewildering lack of an "ANC OFF" toggle makes me think I won't be keeping them for very long...how silly of Tozo to have removed that option when the 20Decebel version has it !


That does sound very silly ... not that I'd be actually using it much without ANC, but I want to be able to turn on / off to evaluate its effectiveness ... 
Day started with 15˚C, which was awesome for running   Only get to do these kinds of runs in summer when I am in GER .. or winter in JPN.


----------



## jant71 (Jul 10, 2020)

https://www.whathifi.com/news/rha-trueconnect-2-true-wireless-buds-floor-airpods-battery-life
Better sound, touch, and 9.5 hours per charge now but no aptX, no ambient, ANC, or wireless charging for the same $150. Meh till quite a bit cheaper.


----------



## Bobbetybob

jant71 said:


> https://www.whathifi.com/news/rha-trueconnect-2-true-wireless-buds-floor-airpods-battery-life
> Better sound, touch, and 9.5 hours per charge now but no aptX, no ambient, ANC, or wireless changing for the same $150. Meh till quite a bit cheaper.


No aptX or AAC, what year is it?


----------



## Darkestred (Jul 9, 2020)

Been listening to the Sony WF-1000xm3.  Way better than i was expecting from some of the negative comments.   Mid-range appears slightly forward and notes have some weight.

I dont find these bassy at all. Surprised to see people finding them as such.  There is some rumble but i am also eq'd several dBs.  Compared to something like the L2 and L2Ps - these are bass light.  Some rumble.  ANC on seems to add some warmth.  Am i crazy?

Treble might sound better than Nuarl N6 but only slightly.  N6 has an airier and more upfront presentation.

They seem a bit bright and get shouty at higher volumes.  Perhaps, that could be the knock.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Darkestred said:


> Been listening to the Sony WF-1000xm3.  Way better than i was expecting from some of the negative comments.   Mid-range appears slightly forward and notes have some weight.
> 
> I dont find these bassy at all. Surprised to see people finding them as such.  There is some rumble but i am also eq'd several dBs.  Compared to something like the L2 and L2Ps - these are bass light.  Some rumble.  ANC on seems to add some warmth.  Am i crazy?
> 
> ...


Several of us have posted that we had to turn up the clear base on the XM3. For me I also have to add a little bit of treble for improved detail and sparkle, but that is about it.

My biggest problem is my footsteps thumping in my ears when I'm walking with them in. I don't get that with any IEM that is supported in place by my outer ear (with or without needing g wings to do that), so mostly get the footstep thumping with my N6P, XM3, and MTW.


----------



## Darkestred (Jul 9, 2020)

HeadphoneAddict said:


> Several of us have posted that we had to turn up the clear base on the XM3. For me I also have to add a little bit of treble for improved detail and sparkle, but that is about it.
> 
> My biggest problem is my footsteps thumping in my ears when I'm walking with them in. I don't get that with any IEM that is supported in place by my outer ear (with or without needing g wings to do that), so mostly get the footstep thumping with my N6P, XM3, and MTW.



Ahh. Messed with clear bass. Better.

I do see what you mean with the thumping not a biggie for me as i cant hear it/feel it when walking with the music on.  er *edit i do feel it walking.

Thanks for the clear bass tip.


----------



## TheLionelHutz

musiclover2015 said:


> *Looking for recommendations: *
> 
> I am currently testing Jbuds Air Icon & Phaiser Fusion One. In Past, I have tested Senn Momentum 1 & my ears don't settle with anything that says 'Sony', so those aren't an option for me.
> 
> ...


There aren't a lot of TWS that have a dedicated app anymore.

If you slide that to "optional," you might give the Advanced Sound Model X+ a look. I own them along with the Phaiser Fusion One, which are indeed very loud and sound fantastic for the money, and I love them immensely. The X+ are not exactly U shaped out of the box, but they EQ wonderfully using Wavelet on Android - you'd just need to pump up the treble a bit. They get louder than I can handle, but don't have the same level of max volume as the Phaisers (does anything??).

They also don't support multipoint. Very, very few TWS do.

But they sound great, with wonderful imaging and separation and very tight bass.


----------



## chinmie (Jul 10, 2020)

TheLionelHutz said:


> There aren't a lot of TWS that have a dedicated app anymore.
> 
> If you slide that to "optional," you might give the Advanced Sound Model X+ a look. I own them along with the Phaiser Fusion One, which are indeed very loud and sound fantastic for the money, and I love them immensely. The X+ are not exactly U shaped out of the box, but they EQ wonderfully using Wavelet on Android - you'd just need to pump up the treble a bit. They get louder than I can handle, but don't have the same level of max volume as the Phaisers (does anything??).
> 
> ...



it's a bit of a shame, really, as even the cheap chifi players like Fiil or even QCY is now providing an app for their TWSs. for me personally, premium priced TWS should give their user an app, even with no features or EQ, at bare minimum at least provide us with firmware update support

in a different subject, I've just trying this CP360 eartips for the WF XM3 , and I'm really loving it. it has a more sticky and grippy texture compared to other Spinfit like the CP100 or CP145, and produces even less thump than the AET07. i might buy a couple more of these as it works well with my Pamu and several other TWS


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

chinmie said:


> it's a bit of a shame, really, as even the cheap chifi players like Fiil or even QCY is now providing an app for their TWSs. for me personally, premium priced TWS should give their user an app, even with no features or EQ, at bare minimum at least provide us with firmware update support
> 
> in a different subject, I've just trying this CP360 eartips for the WF XM3 , and I'm really loving it. it has a more sticky and grippy texture compared to other Spinfit like the CP100 or CP145, and produces even less thump than the AET07. i might buy a couple more of these as it works well with my Pamu and several other TWS



I got these too but haven't bother to try them out yet, but soon...


----------



## FYLegend

Bobbetybob said:


> No aptX or AAC, what year is it?


Well, I'd much rather have a good SBC implementation that a product that intentionally gimps it in favour of proprietary codecs (looking at you Samsung!).

I'm more irritated by the presence of stems. With better mic technology, couldn't no-stem TWS catch up to the call quality of stem TWS?

Wondering how the Taotronics SoundLiberty 79 new version (IPX8 + "improved sound) compare to MPOW M30 Plus and their older counterparts.


----------



## RobinFood

chinmie said:


> it's a bit of a shame, really, as even the cheap chifi players like Fiil or even QCY is now providing an app for their TWSs. for me personally, premium priced TWS should give their user an app, even with no features or EQ, at bare minimum at least provide us with firmware update support
> 
> in a different subject, I've just trying this CP360 eartips for the WF XM3 , and I'm really loving it. it has a more sticky and grippy texture compared to other Spinfit like the CP100 or CP145, and produces even less thump than the AET07. i might buy a couple more of these as it works well with my Pamu and several other TWS



Yes, they are pretty sweet. My only two gripes with them are that they wobble when you walk briskly and that the seem to cause more flex drive then any other tips on the market.

I've been using the aet07 the days but have up on the twist. They isolate plenty without it and don't wobble or move out of place when pointing almost completely down.


----------



## incursore61

HI ! my MW7 plus have arrived .big disappointment ... the sound is really poor, non-existent bass and cold highs ...... I will definitely give it back, it is absolutely not worth the 225 euros paid, maybe I will take a MW7 at 100 ... maybe ...


----------



## Bartig

Decided to wait two days to publish this review, as today is the first anniversary of my wireless earbuds review site. :-D 



I LOVE the Soundcore Spirit Dot 2. Nothing natural, but such an engaging, immersive sound!


----------



## mikp

Seems tronsmart has removed the apt-x HD


----------



## chinmie

Bartig said:


> Decided to wait two days to publish this review, as today is the first anniversary of my wireless earbuds review site. :-D
> 
> 
> 
> I LOVE the Soundcore Spirit Dot 2. Nothing natural, but such an engaging, immersive sound!



congrats! and keep those reviews coming


----------



## BobJS

incursore61 said:


> HI ! my MW7 plus have arrived .big disappointment ... the sound is really poor, non-existent bass and cold highs ...... I will definitely give it back, it is absolutely not worth the 225 euros paid, maybe I will take a MW7 at 100 ... maybe ...



Somehow you are not getting a proper seal, or perhaps you got a clunker.


----------



## howdy

Klipsch has some new TW and a 30%off to for the Mclearen special edition. They look nice with some great features.


----------



## 100Gil

No news on the WF1000XM4 nor Buds Live specs.... I decided to take a chance on the new Hitune from Ugreen, cause the battery from my Buds are falling quickly. Charging them about twice per shift. 




TK33 said:


> I'm still on the fence as well. The price just dropped $10 and I have another $10 coupon from Samsung lying around somewhere so I may go for it.  Anyone use it with LG phones? Have some V60s on the way that will probably replace my S9 so I wont have access to the Samsung scalable codec. I really just want it for calls and ambient mode.


Other phones default to AAC, though SBC is present. I use 1st gen Buds with my G8 and S8.


----------



## logiatype

FYLegend said:


> Well, I'd much rather have a good SBC implementation that a product that intentionally gimps it in favour of proprietary codecs (looking at you Samsung!).



This really grinds your gears lol. I sent them back and refuse to buy Samsung products without purposely handicapped SBC or no aptX.


----------



## vladzakhar

[/QUOTE]


BobJS said:


> Somehow you are not getting a proper seal, or perhaps you got a clunker.


+1


----------



## vladzakhar

I am enjoying my MW07Plus very much, even on Iphone with SBC they sound wonderful.
Also, the latest APP FW update mede them sound very vey good. Enjoying them as well.


----------



## vladzakhar

Warning for Iphone users from my own bad experience: do not install the new os14 beta FW. All my bluetooth earphones sound flat and boring on it. I had to reinstall os13.5 and
now the sound is back to normal.


----------



## webvan (Jul 10, 2020)

So the Tozo NC9 have arrived and unfortunately there is indeed no cycling through ANC ON/Transparency/ANC OFF like on the 20Decebel version reviewed by Bartig. How silly of them, for wind noise while riding a bike but also for battery life ! Now the potentially good news is that they are compatible with the 20Decebel app ! Equalizer (useless  unfortunately) works as well as ANC ON/Transparency but the ANC OFF option does not appear to do anything. It even checks for a possible firmware upgrade (they're running 1.3.6) but no new update is found so that's where the compatibility might end...

EDIT - actually the ANC OFF switch in the APP does work as I found by putting my head close to my fan as the wind noise picked up by the ANC mics disappears when it's activated. Nice !

As for the Transparency and ANC  modes well they're "super extra light sauce", this ain't the Amazon Echo Buds ! Transparency will not allow you to have a conversation and ANC you can "sense" it's there but it doesn't block out much.

Oh and SQ is...ok, a bit dull and treble light but I'll have to spend more time with them.

Ah and a triple tap will bring up Google Assistant.


----------



## TK33

logiatype said:


> This really grinds your gears lol. I sent them back and refuse to buy Samsung products without purposely handicapped SBC or no aptX.


Agreed. It bothers me as well... never. understood why they disabled aptX HD on their phones either.  With aptX adaptive starting to come out, I don't see the point of the scalable codec.  if they somehow think it will lock you into their ecosystem, the average consumer probably has no idea what aptX, scalable or codec means or they probably don't care to know. When you're charging $1k+ for a flagship device, I cant see the licensing fees being that relevant.


----------



## Mouseman

howdy said:


> Klipsch has some new TW and a 30%off to for the Mclearen special edition. They look nice with some great features.


Those are pretty sweet looking. I am trying to resist...


----------



## Shadowclash10

FYLegend said:


> Well, I'd much rather have a good SBC implementation that a product that intentionally gimps it in favour of proprietary codecs (looking at you Samsung!).
> 
> I'm more irritated by the presence of stems. With better mic technology, couldn't no-stem TWS catch up to the call quality of stem TWS?
> 
> Wondering how the Taotronics SoundLiberty 79 new version (IPX8 + "improved sound) compare to MPOW M30 Plus and their older counterparts.


I agree, but decent SBC is very hard to find. IMO what would be perfect is a device with aptX (either HD or non) and AAC. AAC for my iPhone, and aptX for my PC's Bluetooth transmitter.


----------



## logiatype (Jul 10, 2020)

Shadowclash10 said:


> I agree, but decent SBC is very hard to find. IMO what would be perfect is a device with aptX (either HD or non) and AAC. AAC for my iPhone, and aptX for my PC's Bluetooth transmitter.



Yes and no. Windows will do decent SBC and lots of sets allow you to use the highest settings available on windows (SBC Bitpool 53). Samsung just sets a lower maximum value which caps the max bitrate. The odd thing is that none of their windows products even has their Scalable Codec so you're always screwed on Windows (no AAC). So even if PCs had great SBC implementation (Dual Channel and high Bitpool), Samsung's devices wouldn't let you use that capability.

Even Gen 1 airpods have maximum SBC Bitpool of 250!


----------



## erockg

This addiction never stops.  Love these in matte black.  Always hated the fingerprint magnet chrome case.


----------



## hmscott (Jul 15, 2020)

Although I wouldn't recommend the KZ S2's to just anyone, or everyone, I'm really enjoying them the more I use them.

The KZ S2's are persnickety in their BT usage - even stable usage gets "glitches" at times - but if you don't panic you can ride it out and they'll "come back", or require 8 second hold the touch on both to reset and re-bind to my device - required less and less often btw.

The sound is worth it.  Turning on "loudness equalization" in Windows for the KZ S2 device makes them bloom and gives a little more headroom to their maximum usable volume range.

I've used them for hours at home to be able to walk around and interact with others, also used them mobile while on brief shopping trips and while waiting for services, and having 2 pair lets me bridge the gap on long excursions - I really recommend having 2 or more of the same TWS for coverage on longer time periods, and once they recharge in their cases you can loop back and reuse them.  3 is a good number, perhaps safer than 2.  I may get another S2.

Oddly KZ can't provide additional memory foam eartips, they sent me dimensions and images but say they can't give me the foam tip manufacturer info or how to get more of them, and afaik no more can be bought from KZ.   Do any of you know where to get them? 

Update: Thanks to head-fi members for info on tracking down these eartips 
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/goi...soon-or-are-we-there-yet.861024/post-15735052
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/goi...e-we-there-yet.861024/page-1564#post-15735493


----------



## bedlamite

erockg said:


> This addiction never stops.  Love these in matte black.  Always hated the fingerprint magnet chrome case.


Nice. Mandarines?


----------



## erockg (Jul 11, 2020)

bedlamite said:


> Nice. Mandarines?


Yes.  I put the large Symbio tips on there.  Feels better than the stock to me.


----------



## Legislative

Have to say the Edifier X3 are a steal for the price. Best connection stability of any TWS I own and excellent fit and finish. Just got them so no sound quality report until they break in a bit but seem quite flat so far. Certainly no huge bass boost.


----------



## C_Lindbergh

howdy said:


> Klipsch has some new TW and a 30%off to for the Mclearen special edition. They look nice with some great features.



Where can I find the 30% off?


----------



## jant71 (Jul 10, 2020)

C_Lindbergh said:


> Where can I find the 30% off?



I think they are wrong. I see 30% off Mclaren store promo code but it is sent to you when your product ships. So that would mean the next purchase not 30% off the T5 II purchase.
Of course T5 first edition was not that hot so not sure many fully wireless thread subscribers would buy the new one pre-order/blind. Need to prove they made real improvements first.


----------



## Shadowclash10

100Gil said:


> No news on the WF1000XM4 nor Buds Live specs.... I decided to take a chance on the new Hitune from Ugreen, cause the battery from my Buds are falling quickly. Charging them about twice per shift.
> 
> 
> 
> Other phones default to AAC, though SBC is present. I use 1st gen Buds with my G8 and S8.


I am hoping for the Buds Live to be released soon, mantain great battery life, and get ANC - at the same price point. Unfortunately, nothing is confirmed, and release is still some time away.

Wait, what is the catch with the Ugreen Hitune?? ~8-9 hours of battery life, Type C, and $40. Just a lack of reviews...


----------



## Shadowclash10

Legislative said:


> Have to say the Edifier X3 are a steal for the price. Best connection stability of any TWS I own and excellent fit and finish. Just got them so no sound quality report until they break in a bit but seem quite flat so far. Certainly no huge bass boost.


Only downside I can see really is micro-usb - but they are $25


----------



## logiatype

Shadowclash10 said:


> I am hoping for the Buds Live to be released soon, mantain great battery life, and get ANC - at the same price point. Unfortunately, nothing is confirmed, and release is still some time away.
> 
> Wait, what is the catch with the Ugreen Hitune?? ~8-9 hours of battery life, Type C, and $40. Just a lack of reviews...


https://www.gsmarena.com/samsung_galaxy_buds_live_design_colors_renders-news-44203.php

Seems like less than a month


----------



## Samplingentropy (Jul 10, 2020)

d3myz said:


> Anyone else on here get a DM from Tronsmart?


I did to, waiting for more info.

On another note, found my PayPal to be loaded again, just 20$ but still nice.
What is the "in flavour" for that kind of cash now? Can add another 10$ or so if thats needed


----------



## Shadowclash10

Samplingentropy said:


> I did to, waiting for more info.
> 
> On another note, found my PayPal to be loaded again, just 20$ but still nice.
> What yes is the "in flavour" for that kind of cash now? Can add another 10$ or so if thats needed


Sorry, did I miss something?


----------



## Shadowclash10

Has anyone got their hands on the Tranya T10s yet?


----------



## assassin10000

hmscott said:


> Oddly KZ can't provide additional memory foam eartips, they sent me dimensions and images but say they can't give me the foam tip manufacturer info or how to get more of them, and afaik no more can be bought from KZ.   Do any of you know where to get them?



Pics & dimensions?


----------



## C_Lindbergh

jant71 said:


> I think they are wrong. I see 30% off Mclaren store promo code but it is sent to you when your product ships. So that would mean the next purchase not 30% off the T5 II purchase.
> Of course T5 first edition was not that hot so not sure many fully wireless thread subscribers would buy the new one pre-order/blind. Need to prove they made real improvements first.



I'm 99% sure they've fixed all the connection issues, just like Sennheiser fixed their issues with the gen 2... I'm more concerned about buying a premium TWS right now because next gen Blutooth 5.2/LC3 is just around the corner.


----------



## FYLegend

Shadowclash10 said:


> Wait, what is the catch with the Ugreen Hitune?? ~8-9 hours of battery life, Type C, and $40. Just a lack of reviews...


No volume controls. Instead they opted for next/previous tracks on both buds individually.


----------



## Samplingentropy

Shadowclash10 said:


> Sorry, did I miss something?


Do a Google,it gets me to another thread here, started by tronsmart.
Worth checking out =]


----------



## VICosPhi

I wonder how the tips will work for the Samsung Beans buds ... from the pictures it looks like they don't really have a stem that IEMs typically have


----------



## howdy

C_Lindbergh said:


> Where can I find the 30% off?


Yeah, I read it to fast. It seems like you get 30% off Mclearen store items, weak! Unless you like that stuff.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict (Jul 10, 2020)

incursore61 said:


> HI ! my MW7 plus have arrived .big disappointment ... the sound is really poor, non-existent bass and cold highs ...... I will definitely give it back, it is absolutely not worth the 225 euros paid, maybe I will take a MW7 at 100 ... maybe ...



When I got mine I felt the same, and then realized I was not getting passive isolation, and so I must not have a seal - I have to move up from my usual medium size tips to XL with large wings to get them to seal in my ears, and *then the bass appeared like magic.*


----------



## clerkpalmer

HeadphoneAddict said:


> When I got mine I felt the same, and then realized I was getting passive isolation, and so I must not have a seal - I have to move up from my usual medium size tips to XL with large wings to get them to seal in my ears, and *then the bass appeared like magic.*


Something isn't right if there's no bass. These are not bass light iems.


----------



## Shadowclash10

VICosPhi said:


> I wonder how the tips will work for the Samsung Beans buds ... from the pictures it looks like they don't really have a stem that IEMs typically have


Same. I just want them to add ANC to their Buds +, and improve the bass a little. Heaven . I would rather they don't mess around with weird bean shapes 

Oh, and add aptX.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Shadowclash10 said:


> Same. I just want them to add ANC to their Buds +, and improve the bass a little. Heaven . I would rather they don't mess around with weird bean shapes
> 
> Oh, and add aptX.



I just want them to add a wider frequency response to the transparency mode so it's not so tinny sounding, and take the edge off the treble with music, while adding a 10 band EQ to the app. AAC and ANC would be icing on the cake.


----------



## hifihov

Shadowclash10 said:


> Same. I just want them to add ANC to their Buds +, and improve the bass a little. Heaven .


What improvement to the bass do you think they'd benefit from?

With triple flange tips i think there's a little too much, which could be dialled back a tad, for more detail.


----------



## musiclover2015

TheLionelHutz said:


> There aren't a lot of TWS that have a dedicated app anymore.
> 
> If you slide that to "optional," you might give the Advanced Sound Model X+ a look. I own them along with the Phaiser Fusion One, which are indeed very loud and sound fantastic for the money, and I love them immensely. The X+ are not exactly U shaped out of the box, but they EQ wonderfully using Wavelet on Android - you'd just need to pump up the treble a bit. They get louder than I can handle, but don't have the same level of max volume as the Phaisers (does anything??).
> 
> ...


How about Tevi's SQ & overall performace?


----------



## Caipirina (Jul 11, 2020)

Bartig said:


> Decided to wait two days to publish this review, as today is the first anniversary of my wireless earbuds review site. :-D
> 
> 
> 
> I LOVE the Soundcore Spirit Dot 2. Nothing natural, but such an engaging, immersive sound!


Congrats to the one year anniversary! I remember this time last year being super hot around the whole emerging(*) TWS market .. I must have shopped nearly as heavily as you, but did not have the patience nor diligence to do all the testing / sampling / write ups / pictures and all those fantastic comparisons that you do!
I recall your first 'page' on Medium, before Scarbir ... was the first big hole in my wallet maker ... pretty much got everything that was recommended there 
Let's see if you will hit 200 buds by mid 2021

(*)emerging chi-fi cheap TWS market might be a better term


----------



## Caipirina

incursore61 said:


> HI ! my MW7 plus have arrived .big disappointment ... the sound is really poor, non-existent bass and cold highs ...... I will definitely give it back, it is absolutely not worth the 225 euros paid, maybe I will take a MW7 at 100 ... maybe ...



My regular 99€ MW07 have reached Germany (from California! I wonder how much they pay for shipping!) and are supposed to be in my hands by Wednesday, I really hope that it is a seal issue that you are having ... have not even checked the return policy ...      also have not checked WHY I then ended up ordering, after I firmly stated here I would NOT get them ... 
I am weak ... 
Also looking at those Mpow M30, currently limited time deal on amazon.de


----------



## Caipirina

webvan said:


> So the Tozo NC9 have arrived and unfortunately there is indeed no cycling through ANC ON/Transparency/ANC OFF like on the 20Decebel version reviewed by Bartig. How silly of them, for wind noise while riding a bike but also for battery life ! Now the potentially good news is that they are compatible with the 20Decebel app ! Equalizer (useless  unfortunately) works as well as ANC ON/Transparency but the ANC OFF option does not appear to do anything. It even checks for a possible firmware upgrade (they're running 1.3.6) but no new update is found so that's where the compatibility might end...
> 
> EDIT - actually the ANC OFF switch in the APP does work as I found by putting my head close to my fan as the wind noise picked up by the ANC mics disappears when it's activated. Nice !
> 
> ...


Thanks for the extensive testing (even with the app!) & saving me 60€ ... maybe I SHOULD now get those M30 instead


----------



## Caipirina

hmscott said:


> Although I wouldn't recommend the KZ S2's to just anyone, or everyone, I'm really enjoying them the more I use them.
> 
> The KZ S2's are persnickety in their BT usage - even stable usage gets "glitches" at times - but if you don't panic you can ride it out and they'll "come back", or require 8 second hold the touch on both to reset and re-bind to my device - required less and less often btw.
> 
> ...


I only gave the S2 a brief listen, but so far liked what I heard. Did not have any trouble with the connection. 

But mainly Thank You for the Word of the Day!


----------



## willyk

Shadowclash10 said:


> Has anyone got their hands on the Tranya T10s yet?


My question as well!


----------



## FYLegend

logiatype said:


> Yes and no. Windows will do decent SBC and lots of sets allow you to use the highest settings available on windows (SBC Bitpool 53). Samsung just sets a lower maximum value which caps the max bitrate. The odd thing is that none of their windows products even has their Scalable Codec so you're always screwed on Windows (no AAC). So even if PCs had great SBC implementation (Dual Channel and high Bitpool), Samsung's devices wouldn't let you use that capability.
> 
> Even Gen 1 airpods have maximum SBC Bitpool of 250!


There were some users claiming they got the Buds+ sound good on their devices be it BT5.0 or 4.2, but maybe the issue doesn't show up on some tracks or at lower volumes. I find that much of the buzzing distortion is gone when the volume is below 50%, but to me this is way too quiet.

I find it odd that Samsung's nerfing SBC yet they still focjus on Windows 10 integration features such as Swift Pair. Another oddity is my Buds+ sounds equally bad when "dual audio output" is enabled to output to the Buds+ and second Bluetooth audio device, so I'm guessing the bitpool doesn't change much if at all. Other TWS sound good with SBC until you enable this option to which they sound just as bad as Buds+. Anyways, it's a pretty sloppy feature on Android for simultaneous output because TWS tend to delay behind the second audio device.

Most of my other TWS still sound good on SBC with Windows 10 - the highs may be slightly less defined and the bass more boomy but still very respectable. It has been argued that the "cleaner" sound of AptX and/or AAC is due in part to the lows being rolled off and compressed dynamic range.



Shadowclash10 said:


> Same. I just want them to add ANC to their Buds +, and improve the bass a little. Heaven . I would rather they don't mess around with weird bean shapes
> 
> Oh, and add aptX.


The bean shape isn't terrible, reminds me of Anbes 359, Tronsmart Onyx Neo and Aufo M1, just without in-ear.

I wonder if the Buds+ was capable of ANC but they decided not to implement it at the last minute. The ambient sound feature has an aggressive noise reduction feature after an update in April.


----------



## Shadowclash10

hifihov said:


> What improvement to the bass do you think they'd benefit from?
> 
> With triple flange tips i think there's a little too much, which could be dialled back a tad, for more detail.


Oh whoopsies! I meant treble . The treble just jeels a little bit... off, I guess.
When you mix up bass and treble


----------



## EvilJesus

Caipirina said:


> My regular 99€ MW07 have reached Germany (from California! I wonder how much they pay for shipping!) and are supposed to be in my hands by Wednesday, I really hope that it is a seal issue that you are having ... have not even checked the return policy ...      also have not checked WHY I then ended up ordering, after I firmly stated here I would NOT get them ...
> I am weak ...
> Also looking at those Mpow M30, currently limited time deal on amazon.de


I have tried several true wireless buds and I think my MW07 Go's are not only the best sounding but also best fitting. I does take a little trial and error with the right tip and wing combo but worth taking the time to get a good seal. I have been using a self made combo tip for a while now and the bass definitely thumps while not being over bearing. Interested to hear what you think when you finally get them.


----------



## Caipirina

Finally got my Haylou GT1 PLUS today (that was a very loooong journey) .. and boy, how great are those guys? I was never that excited with the GT2 for example. These are as awesome as the original GT1 .. but now when connected via AptX to my Tempotec playa, wow, added detail and sparkle. Sweet stuff!


----------



## Shadowclash10

FYLegend said:


> There were some users claiming they got the Buds+ sound good on their devices be it BT5.0 or 4.2, but maybe the issue doesn't show up on some tracks or at lower volumes. I find that much of the buzzing distortion is gone when the volume is below 50%, but to me this is way too quiet.
> 
> I find it odd that Samsung's nerfing SBC yet they still focjus on Windows 10 integration features such as Swift Pair. Another oddity is my Buds+ sounds equally bad when "dual audio output" is enabled to output to the Buds+ and second Bluetooth audio device, so I'm guessing the bitpool doesn't change much if at all. Other TWS sound good with SBC until you enable this option to which they sound just as bad as Buds+. Anyways, it's a pretty sloppy feature on Android for simultaneous output because TWS tend to delay behind the second audio device.
> 
> ...


 So basically, at least for you, Galaxy Buds + on Win10 (SBC) sound bad. Argh. I wish they had aptX - there are aptX transmitters, but not AAC.

Right, but the no in-ear is the crtical part. Makes me a bit worried.

Its quite rare to find brand-name TWS buds for $150 that have ANC. Almost every TWS w/ANC starts at $200 or greater. But yes, it would have made them awesome.

I didn't hear about this update. Does it improve isolation enough?


----------



## tgx78

Caipirina said:


> Finally got my Haylou GT1 PLUS today (that was a very loooong journey) .. and boy, how great are those guys? I was never that excited with the GT2 for example. These are as awesome as the original GT1 .. but now when connected via AptX to my Tempotec playa, wow, added detail and sparkle. Sweet stuff!



Love the GT1 Plus. Great timbre and balanced sound for such a little money. Win!


----------



## Shadowclash10

Caipirina said:


> My regular 99€ MW07 have reached Germany (from California! I wonder how much they pay for shipping!) and are supposed to be in my hands by Wednesday, I really hope that it is a seal issue that you are having ... have not even checked the return policy ...      also have not checked WHY I then ended up ordering, after I firmly stated here I would NOT get them ...
> I am weak ...
> Also looking at those Mpow M30, currently limited time deal on amazon.de


99€ is quite cheap! Nice! That translates to ~$110 USD, and in the US Amazon has them discounted to $120, down from $140.


----------



## mikp

just listened to "one" from Live crap-Binge & Purge on the mtw2, and the mavins have been dethroned. The soundstage is really big and spacious.

Only negative with the mtw2 is the price, luckily it was a gift. But these are not something I would risk on hikes etc, so sadly the jabra 65  still have some use.


----------



## TK33

EvilJesus said:


> I have tried several true wireless buds and I think my MW07 Go's are not only the best sounding but also best fitting. I does take a little trial and error with the right tip and wing combo but worth taking the time to get a good seal. I have been using a self made combo tip for a while now and the bass definitely thumps while not being over bearing. Interested to hear what you think when you finally get them.


This is probably true for most true wireless buds.  For the MW07 Go, I had to go up a size due to the way t sat in my ear and finally ended up with the CP100z (large). Been pretty happy with them since I got them last year.


----------



## RemoGaggi

For those of you in the USA and considering ordering directly from Linsoul, I would seriously reconsider or at the very least pay the $12 for express shipping.  I made an order from Linsoul over 2 months ago and the shipping service they use to the USA, SF Express, held onto the package in NY for nearly 2 months and then when the package finally arrived, it was the wrong item.  I will never order directly from them again.


----------



## Caipirina

RemoGaggi said:


> For those of you in the USA and considering ordering directly from Linsoul, I would seriously reconsider or at the very least pay the $12 for express shipping.  I made an order from Linsoul over 2 months ago and the shipping service they use to the USA, SF Express, held onto the package in NY for nearly 2 months and then when the package finally arrived, it was the wrong item.  I will never order directly from them again.


From time to time new 'cheap' postal services try to break into the market by offering better prices and then struggle to get things done .. I had that experience with SunYou. They give great (unrealistic) estimates and then you check trustpilot ...   here is the review aggregation for SF express. Read it and weep. I hope Linsoul will realize to NOT bet on the cheapest supplier, it will ultimately fall back on their reputation ..


----------



## Caipirina

Shadowclash10 said:


> 99€ is quite cheap! Nice! That translates to ~$110 USD, and in the US Amazon has them discounted to $120, down from $140.



That was from M&D direct, website had (has?) a 50% off coupon ... check a bunch of posts back ...


----------



## assassin10000

RemoGaggi said:


> For those of you in the USA and considering ordering directly from Linsoul, I would seriously reconsider or at the very least pay the $12 for express shipping.  I made an order from Linsoul over 2 months ago and the shipping service they use to the USA, SF Express, held onto the package in NY for nearly 2 months and then when the package finally arrived, it was the wrong item.  I will never order directly from them again.





Caipirina said:


> From time to time new 'cheap' postal services try to break into the market by offering better prices and then struggle to get things done .. I had that experience with SunYou. They give great (unrealistic) estimates and then you check trustpilot ...   here is the review aggregation for SF express. Read it and weep. I hope Linsoul will realize to NOT bet on the cheapest supplier, it will ultimately fall back on their reputation ..



Ouch. Poor choice in shipper. I've got several packages like that from AE currently.

I just got a package from Linsoul that I ordered on Amazon. Shipped from Linsoul through 4px on 6/30, arrived today.


----------



## TK33

assassin10000 said:


> Ouch. Poor choice in shipper. I've got several packages like that from AE currently.
> 
> I just got a package from Linsoul that I ordered on Amazon. Shipped from Linsoul through 4px on 6/30, arrived today.


I would only order from them if you really don't need it anytime soon.  I've had multiple shipments held because "[c]ustomer hasn't pay off related fees".  I have an SF Express package on the way to the US which I ordered from Linsoul on Amazon on 6/23.  It just got on a plane today...for this current package, they marked it shipped two days before they actually shipped it (turned out they were closed for.a holiday so there was no way it could have shipped that day...at least they are honest about it). I will say that Linsoul has been very responsive to emails though.


----------



## darveniza

TK33 said:


> I would only order from them if you really don't need it anytime soon.  I've had multiple shipments held because "[c]ustomer hasn't pay off related fees".  I have an SF Express package on the way to the US which I ordered from Linsoul on Amazon on 6/23.  It just got on a plane today...for this current package, they marked it shipped two days before they actually shipped it (turned out they were closed for.a holiday so there was no way it could have shipped that day...at least they are honest about it). I will say that Linsoul has been very responsive to emails though.


Is Penon Audio ,HiFiGo or anyone else better???


----------



## VICosPhi (Jul 11, 2020)

After trying several TWS, decided to bite the bullet and get Sennheiser Momentum 2 TWS. The hype is real, folks. It sounds amazing over APTX and my Galaxy Note 10.

There are many pros for MT2. ANC is not as bad as some have stated, it is perfectly acceptable imo. Sound signature is on the warmer side but it is definitely not a dark signature. The vocals sound rich and bass is not boomy at all. The other TWS I have currently is Jabra 75t. It definitely has more quantity of mid-bass and overall bass thump, but nowhere near the quantity or quality sub-bass of MT2. Jabra 75t also has more treble presence but it likes to overemphasize mid-bass(bloaty unless you eq it down) and it also like to splash treble to prevent muddiness and while it can sound fun when you are working out, it does not sound very natural. MT2 does not overemphasize any one frequency and it is a joy to listen to. Sennheiser finally released an app update for IOS which gives an actual band based equalizer, Android should also get that updated app soon.

As for the drawbacks/cons I can only think of terrible mic quality while on phone calls (and the $$$ price of-course compared to other TWS). Microphone on these MT2 is really terrible! When you are making phone calls, if you tilt your head down, or if you are resting your hear against a couch, others won't be able to hear you clearly or hear you at all. I tested this extensively and unless you speak loudly and sit up straight, your voice will sound tinny/inaudible to others. Jabra 75t on the other hand is excellent with phone calls. You can even mumble while on call and yet it will transmit the voice clearly! Jabras also have a dedicated Mute button unlike MT2 which is such a great feature to have. 

There is no comparison really, MT2 mic sucks, Jabra 75t mic is hands down better probably only behind Galaxy buds+. And this is with the latest firmware which supposedly fixes phone calls/voice quality. I cannot imagine how bad it must have been previously...

No TWS is perfect, and I am gonna keep MT2 due to its sound quality alone.

Technics TWS will be released in next couple weeks. I might try that one out to see if sounds as good as MT2 music wise and any better for phone calls. However, it lacks APTX, is larger than MT2 and case is odd shaped with shorter battery life than MT2 but with better ANC, though there are some reports of white noise.


----------



## bedlamite

Pricing on the Senns is pretty fair, I think. Build quality on the buds and the case is well above average, featureset isn't lacking, it's got an app that gets updated often...this is the complete package, coming from a company with audiophile cred. This being the version 2 release, Senn fixed everything they got wrong the first time out, first with the battery issues, then most recently, audio quality with the 4.8.0 firmware update. 

Are they expensive? Sure. Are they worth the cost? Definitely.


----------



## Darkestred

darveniza said:


> Is Penon Audio ,HiFiGo or anyone else better???



Lately with Penon DHL has been lightning fast.   I say that because ive only ordered twice from Penon.  Great experience and good ship times to incredible, the second round.  I'm talking 5 days from date of purchase from china to the USA.


----------



## tgx78

Penon Audio shipped something ( 2 IEMS ) last week and I got them in less than 24 hours. 
They used FedEx ( Hong Kong -> Vancouver, Canada )


----------



## Shadowclash10

bedlamite said:


> Pricing on the Senns is pretty fair, I think. Build quality on the buds and the case is well above average, featureset isn't lacking, it's got an app that gets updated often...this is the complete package, coming from a company with audiophile cred. This being the version 2 release, Senn fixed everything they got wrong the first time out, first with the battery issues, then most recently, audio quality with the 4.8.0 firmware update.
> 
> Are they expensive? Sure. Are they worth the cost? Definitely.


Exactly. There are expensive options that aren't worth it, and there are expensive options that ARE worth it, but most people can't/won't pay for them - like the MT2. Is it worth the price? Yes. Are you and ~98& of buyers gonna buy it? No.


----------



## TK33

darveniza said:


> Is Penon Audio ,HiFiGo or anyone else better???


Never said they were. Doesnt make what people have been experiencing any better though.  I think the original point was that if you dont want to wait, pay for the express shopping, which I agree with (not limited to Linsoul, who as I noted, will at least own up to their mistakes and is very responsive). A few weeks ago, I did get a cable from them that came in a plastic bag and envekope without a box or any depicted accessories (wasnt even tied).  Linsould did offer a partial refund and was very responsive.  I think SF Express and these low cost carriers are the perfect example of you get what you pay for...


----------



## TK33

bedlamite said:


> Pricing on the Senns is pretty fair, I think. Build quality on the buds and the case is well above average, featureset isn't lacking, it's got an app that gets updated often...this is the complete package, coming from a company with audiophile cred. This being the version 2 release, Senn fixed everything they got wrong the first time out, first with the battery issues, then most recently, audio quality with the 4.8.0 firmware update.
> 
> Are they expensive? Sure. Are they worth the cost? Definitely.



I think that last part about being worth the cost is relative.  That being said, I agree.  I paid full price for the original and it was worth it for me.


----------



## FYLegend

Shadowclash10 said:


> I didn't hear about this update. Does it improve isolation enough?


No, what I meant was a wind-noise reduction filter in the ambient sound. It was added in an update in April in response to complaints of wind noise, but there's no way to turn it on or off (adjusting ambient sound levels doesn't affect this). Now the ambient sound feed lacks bass and sounds too faint in some situations. The volume also pans around from certain sounds (like turning on the faucet or cars driving by), which is extremely annoying and potentially unsafe (I wouldn't use these readily the streets!).

Some users have complained on the Samsung US forum but the reps and users there just tell people BS like "do a factory reset" or "get a replacement". So I wonder where they are taking feedback from for complaints like "wind noise" and other things.


----------



## musiclover2015 (Jul 12, 2020)

Are the Lypertek Tevi's worth spending 90 bucks? I am currently testing Phaiser Fusion One & Jbuds Air Icon. Can Tevi or Soundpeats Truengine 2 offer anything different?


----------



## soldiersixteen

I have had the Sony wf-1000xm3 for couple of weeks now, they dont pair properly with my laptop. The connection has dropped out several times on calls. The play/pause when you remove it from the ears is always a hit or miss. 

Is there a good alternative? I can get the Klipsch T5 for around 50% of what i paid for the sony. Should i do it? I am primarily looking for good mic, connection and sound quality.


----------



## clerkpalmer

TK33 said:


> I think that last part about being worth the cost is relative.  That being said, I agree.  I paid full price for the original and it was worth it for me.


I own both the mtw2 and the new akg. The akg beats the senns in almost every category except maybe fit and that's debatable. Build quality is just as good. ANC is superior.  Sq for me personally is superior. Only reason to go with the mtw2 is if you prefer the sennheiser house sound. I'm probably gonna sell my senns. The akg is that good and 100 bucks less.


----------



## darveniza

clerkpalmer said:


> I own both the mtw2 and the new akg. The akg beats the senns in almost every category except maybe fit and that's debatable. Build quality is just as good. ANC is superior.  Sq for me personally is superior. Only reason to go with the mtw2 is if you prefer the sennheiser house sound. I'm probably gonna sell my senns. The akg is that good and 100 bucks less.


The other item would to consider are the button controls, which is a big one for me . The AKG approach is much easier for me. The app also seems much more polished, including anEq control that make sense


----------



## erockg

clerkpalmer said:


> I own both the mtw2 and the new akg. The akg beats the senns in almost every category except maybe fit and that's debatable. Build quality is just as good. ANC is superior.  Sq for me personally is superior. Only reason to go with the mtw2 is if you prefer the sennheiser house sound. I'm probably gonna sell my senns. The akg is that good and 100 bucks less.


I couldn’t get the swipe gestures to work properly (Wouldn’t register all the time) and the app was buggy for me.  I returned them.  Sound was awesome though.  Maybe I’ll revisit and try another pair.


----------



## C_Lindbergh

clerkpalmer said:


> I own both the mtw2 and the new akg. The akg beats the senns in almost every category except maybe fit and that's debatable. Build quality is just as good. ANC is superior.  Sq for me personally is superior. Only reason to go with the mtw2 is if you prefer the sennheiser house sound. I'm probably gonna sell my senns. The akg is that good and 100 bucks less.



N400 got worse battery life, no APTX, and above all there's no EU reseller that have them in stock, at least as far as I'm aware of. So if you import it, the additional shipping cost and custom fees won't make them that much cheaper than MTW2. Since you import them there wont be any warranty, that's another con.

But yea for US customers that can get them from Amazon.com the last part isn't an issue.


----------



## Caipirina

C_Lindbergh said:


> N400 got worse battery life, no APTX, and above all there's no EU reseller that have them in stock, at least as far as I'm aware of. So if you import it, the additional shipping cost and custom fees won't make them that much cheaper than MTW2. Since you import them there wont be any warranty, that's another con.
> 
> But yea for US customers that can get them from Amazon.com the last part isn't an issue.


i should have read your post BEFORE I just went on a wild goose chase for EU sources


----------



## C_Lindbergh (Jul 12, 2020)

Caipirina said:


> i should have read your post BEFORE I just went on a wild goose chase for EU sources



I haven't looked through that many audio stores in EU, mostly Amazon and all my local stores in my country, maybe there's some store that sells them. But I couldn't find any :/

Btw is the connection for the AKG N400 Master/Slave or independent? They do look really interesting, but man that battery life is so last gen, the N400 can get you 12 hours, whilst MTW2 can get you 24h...


----------



## VICosPhi

C_Lindbergh said:


> I haven't looked through that many audio stores in EU, mostly Amazon and all my local stores in my country, maybe there's some store that sells them. But I couldn't find any :/
> 
> Btw is the connection for the AKG N400 Master/Slave or independent? They do look really interesting, but man that battery life is so last gen, the N400 can get you 12 hours, whilst MTW2 can get you 24h...


They are  master slave unfortunately. Crinacle rates N400 as his favorite TWS. But lack of warranty, poor battery life and lack of APTX are definitely big cons. The app also shows wrong model(at times) for earbuds and you can't control the buds anymore but that I guess they may fix in future update. The graph shows they should have lower quantity of bass than the MT2 and treble also seems a little recessed from the graph.


----------



## Shadowclash10

So I he


C_Lindbergh said:


> I haven't looked through that many audio stores in EU, mostly Amazon and all my local stores in my country, maybe there's some store that sells them. But I couldn't find any :/
> 
> Btw is the connection for the AKG N400 Master/Slave or independent? They do look really interesting, but man that battery life is so last gen, the N400 can get you 12 hours, whilst MTW2 can get you 24h...


Are you referring to case battery life?


----------



## Shadowclash10

VICosPhi said:


> They are  master slave unfortunately. Crinacle rates N400 as his favorite TWS. But lack of warranty, poor battery life and lack of APTX are definitely big cons. The app also shows wrong model(at times) for earbuds and you can't control the buds anymore but that I guess they may fix in future update. The graph shows they should have lower quantity of bass than the MT2 and treble also seems a little recessed from the graph.


Right, cause Crinnacle only rates on sound. Feature wise, they are somewhat of a let down considering how amazing the Buds+ are.


----------



## C_Lindbergh (Jul 12, 2020)

VICosPhi said:


> They are  master slave unfortunately. Crinacle rates N400 as his favorite TWS. But lack of warranty, poor battery life and lack of APTX are definitely big cons. The app also shows wrong model(at times) for earbuds and you can't control the buds anymore but that I guess they may fix in future update. The graph shows they should have lower quantity of bass than the MT2 and treble also seems a little recessed from the graph.



Ah damn, even if they sound better all the cons is not worth it I think, not for me at least... Even tho it got some upsides like wireless charging and IP7X rating.

But above all else Bluetooth 5.2 is just around the corner, not sure If I can bring myself to purchace another new pair of TWS at this point :/.

BT 5.2 will standardise so many features like independent connection, high quality codec etc



Shadowclash10 said:


> Are you referring to case battery life?



Yepp, obviously I'd be fine with 12 hours in most scenarious, I'm more worried about long term battery health, a 30% reduction from 24h will feel a lot less compared to 30% reduction from 12h.


----------



## Shadowclash10

Has anyone seen the the new Klipsch T5 II? Set to release in August. They look pretty promising, but they are $200+, so nothing special then.


----------



## Shadowclash10

C_Lindbergh said:


> Ah damn, even if they sound better all the cons is not worth it I think, not for me at least... Even tho it got some upsides like wireless charging and IP7X rating.
> 
> But above all else Bluetooth 5.2 is just around the corner, not sure If I can bring myself to purchace another new pair of TWS at this point :/.
> 
> ...


Exactly. Same with the actual earbud batteries - something like the Buds+ is 11-13 hours, so even a 50% reduction makes them 5-6 hours, which is still very useable.


----------



## C_Lindbergh (Jul 12, 2020)

Shadowclash10 said:


> Has anyone seen the the new Klipsch T5 II? Set to release in August. They look pretty promising, but they are $200+, so nothing special then.



They've only launched a product page for the T5 II Sport (Mclaren editon, but the non Mclaren will be exactly the same but without the branding).

https://www.klipsch.com/products/t5-ii-true-wireless-earphones-mclaren

But I guess we'll see more information about the T5 II edition any week now.

Im actually considering to buy the T5 II sport, since I can find uses for them long term, anytime you're doing anything physically demanding.... IP 67 rated (full Dust and Water protection), great battery life (8+24h) and a moisture removal system in the case. They should sound decent as well, even though I'll probably wait for a few reviews so I can see if the moisture removal system is pure marketing or an actual useful function.


----------



## darveniza

erockg said:


> I couldn’t get the swipe gestures to work properly (Wouldn’t register all the time) and the app was buggy for me.  I returned them.  Sound was awesome though.  Maybe I’ll revisit and try another pair.


Make sure to force the app update


----------



## TK33

VICosPhi said:


> They are  master slave unfortunately. Crinacle rates N400 as his favorite TWS. But lack of warranty, poor battery life and lack of APTX are definitely big cons. The app also shows wrong model(at times) for earbuds and you can't control the buds anymore but that I guess they may fix in future update. The graph shows they should have lower quantity of bass than the MT2 and treble also seems a little recessed from the graph.



Assuming that means you can't use the left bud by itself unless the right bud is out of the case?


----------



## erockg

darveniza said:


> Make sure to force the app update



They updated right out of the box.  What update are you on?


----------



## TK33

C_Lindbergh said:


> But yea for US customers that can get them from Amazon.com the last part isn't an issue.



Did.Samsung actually release these outside of Korea? I have been keeping an eye on these but I dont see them being sold by Amazon.com in the US.  Only a seller called Lucky Fortuna if you want Prime shipping.  Is that who you guys have been buying from if you are in the US? Are they an official distributor?

It says "International Version" on the product page, which I usually interpret to mean no warranty.


----------



## darveniza

erockg said:


> They updated right out of the box.  What update are you on?


On the app 3.2.9 and 3.9 on earbuds


----------



## hmscott (Jul 12, 2020)

assassin10000 said:


> Pics & dimensions?


After a few back and forth emails asking where to buy them, then what the eartips make / model are and who makes them, they sent me a screen shot of an Indiegogo page:


And, this was their last email:

"Dear Scott
Thanks for your great support!
Please kindly note that these foam ear-tips cannot be sold separately and we can only provide you the size of them so that you could buy other kinds of ear-tips with the same size.
Sorry for any inconvenience!"

I've found these foam tips - a foam ring around a solid connecting core - fit my ear well and hold in the KZ S2 solidly, and are low profile enough to fit in the charging case.

Does anyone have any idea where to get them?


----------



## VICosPhi

TK33 said:


> Assuming that means you can't use the left bud by itself unless the right bud is out of the case?


Yep, the master acts as a transmitter and slave has to connect to it.


----------



## martiniCZ (Jul 12, 2020)

> Does anyone have any idea where to get them?



I brought my here https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000482792147.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.780a4c4d9cK8gx. Qality is the same like "original" Misodiko https://www.aliexpress.com/item/330...earchweb0_0,searchweb201602_,searchweb201603_


----------



## erockg

darveniza said:


> On the app 3.2.9 and 3.9 on earbuds


I believe my buds were on 3.9.  Volume up and Down, as well as, Transparency on/off swipes would never work on the first try.


----------



## erockg

TK33 said:


> Did.Samsung actually release these outside of Korea? I have been keeping an eye on these but I dont see them being sold by Amazon.com in the US.  Only a seller called Lucky Fortuna if you want Prime shipping.  Is that who you guys have been buying from if you are in the US? Are they an official distributor?
> 
> It says "International Version" on the product page, which I usually interpret to mean no warranty.


I bought from Lucky Fortuna.


----------



## tgx78

I also bought the AKG N400 from Lucky Fortuna (Amazon Canada). Hoping to receive it in few days.


----------



## clerkpalmer

erockg said:


> I bought from Lucky Fortuna.


Me too. I didn't think about no warranty. Just assumed there must be if they were sold on an Amazon. Hmm.


----------



## erockg

clerkpalmer said:


> Me too. I didn't think about no warranty. Just assumed there must be if they were sold on an Amazon. Hmm.


Curious if anyone else has app issues and swiping issues.


----------



## darveniza

erockg said:


> Curious if anyone else has app issues and swiping issues.


Just be aware that for swipping, you need to make sure that AKG label is horizontal. I noticed that you have errors when your IEM moves position, I corrected after using the right combination of tips and wings


----------



## erockg

darveniza said:


> Just be aware that for swipping, you need to make sure that AKG label is horizontal. I noticed that you have errors when your IEM moves position, I corrected after using the right combination of tips and wings


Oh, I know.  I tried extensively.  Drove me nuts.  I have so many buds with swipe features, but these didn’t work well for me.  I may buy and try another pair.  Sounds like an isolated event.


----------



## clerkpalmer (Jul 12, 2020)

_my box incorporates a California p65 warning. Assuming this would mean it is a US product?_


----------



## darveniza

erockg said:


> Oh, I know.  I tried extensively.  Drove me nuts.  I have so many buds with swipe features, but these didn’t work well for me.  I may buy and try another pair.  Sounds like an isolated event.


Sorry to hear about this. One thing I did was to try them while still in the case open and checked swipe and pressure of tap just to get a feeling for it and then I placed them in ear. My Galaxy Buds + are too sensitive and when I moved in my ear for position it always triggers a functions which is annoying trying to go back


----------



## assassin10000 (Jul 12, 2020)

hmscott said:


> After a few back and forth emails asking where to buy them, then what the eartips make / model are and who makes them, they sent me a screen shot of an Indiegogo page:
> 
> And, this was their last email:
> 
> ...





martiniCZ said:


> I brought my here https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000482792147.html.
> Quality is the same like "original" Misodiko https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33013179005.html



There are two versions if those short TWS foams that I know of: ikko i-planet and misodiko tws-pro. Both can be found on amazon.com, about $10 for 2 pairs of ikko and $15 for 3 pairs of TWS-Pro.

Misodiko is a 'brand name', they are also sold generically.

If you search for Jabra foam tips on AliExpress they will show up.
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000482730406.html


The ikko tips were true to their size dimensions. My small sized generic misodiko tips were 1mm larger at 12mm, instead of 11mm.




assassin10000 said:


> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/best-iem-tips.626895/page-46#post-15418889
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/best-iem-tips.626895/page-46#post-15418950
> 
> So the small Ikko tips ended up being uncomfortable for my smaller ears canals. When I ordered them I thought they were 11.2mm which would have been closer to my ideal size.
> ...





assassin10000 said:


> Well, these Misodiko type tips finally showed up from AE. Unfortunately sizing isn't 11mm but 12mm O.D., which means just like the Ikko tips they're uncomfortable for me.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Shadowclash10

clerkpalmer said:


> _my box incorporates a California p65 warning. Assuming this would mean it is a US product?_


As far as I understand, a California P65 warning must be used when the criteria are met for the warning, and if the product is also intended to be sold to consumers in California. So it's not a guarantee, but it increases the chances.


----------



## Shadowclash10

OMG I just had a mind-blowing idea!

Hey @Audeze, can we get a pair of true wireless IEMs please please please!!!


----------



## clerkpalmer

Shadowclash10 said:


> OMG I just had a mind-blowing idea!
> 
> Hey @Audeze, can we get a pair of true wireless IEMs please please please!!!


One can hope.  I'm ready. Wallet open.


----------



## Shadowclash10

And umm, @Audeze, I know this may be too much to ask, but can we please keep the price $300 or under.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Shadowclash10 said:


> OMG I just had a mind-blowing idea!
> 
> Hey @Audeze, can we get a pair of true wireless IEMs please please please!!!



If they could do one like the FIIO that go over the ears, we could use that instead of ear hooks to keep our iSine 10/20 etc in place!


----------



## Tronsmart Official

d3myz said:


> Anyone else on here get a DM from Tronsmart?


Bro, you can register on our website. Will get it.


----------



## eiraku

Shadowclash10 said:


> OMG I just had a mind-blowing idea!
> 
> Hey @Audeze, can we get a pair of true wireless IEMs please please please!!!




*continues watching from afar*


----------



## bedlamite

Finally got the n400s in. Really nice build quality, with a case that has deep earwells to allow for tip rolling. Wish it had a spring-loaded hinge but that's a minor nitpick.

Stock tips sounded almost too thin and there was an immediate improvement in bass once I swapped some Spinfit CP360s in. Mellow sound signature, these are definite MTW2 contenders, and at less than half price!


----------



## Caipirina (Jul 13, 2020)

Anyone here who recently ordered directly from M&D got it shipped from the US to EU?
I was a bit stumped when I saw it was shipped from California, somehow I thought by buying from their .eu website (and being charged 99.50€, not 99.50$) I would get it shipped from somewhere EU.
Now I see that while it has already arrived in GER, it's seems to be stuck at customs, despite M&D website saying:




Semi random side note, since it fits the topic of int'l shipping: Isn't it amazing how much we learn about our planet / geography / mail systems ... i.e. that Tobol & Moyynty are apparently cities in Kazakhstan (well, judging my sat images, Moyynty is rather small) and why the heck is some of my AliExpress stuff traveling the 20h between those 2 spots before come from China to me to Germany???


Now you know where Moyynty is 
(ooooh ... railway all the way from China ... learning never ceases! always thought AliEx stuff is either ship or plane, never considered rail! from Wiki: " _After connection with China at the Alataw Pass in 1990, a railway bridge Ürümqi—Dostyk—Aktogay—Sayak—Balqash—Moyynty was created._")

Sorry for the total diversion


----------



## soldiersixteen

Hi everyone, I am considering the Soundcore Liberty Air 2 and will return my Sony wf-1000xm3. Or am I better off waiting for the klipsch t5 ii?


----------



## Cevisi

Hi

I am looking for a tws with small snug fit that won t stick out of my concha. With natural and smooth sound and good battery life.

The ability to lay on my ears on my pillow with out any discomfort is very important for me 

Use case only for lying in my bed and watch youtube videos or listen to podcasts.

thanks in advance


----------



## erockg

clerkpalmer said:


> _my box incorporates a California p65 warning. Assuming this would mean it is a US product?_


CA requires that on some.  I think the packaging was universal.  At


bedlamite said:


> Finally got the n400s in. Really nice build quality, with a case that has deep earwells to allow for tip rolling. Wish it had a spring-loaded hinge but that's a minor nitpick.
> 
> Stock tips sounded almost too thin and there was an immediate improvement in bass once I swapped some Spinfit CP360s in. Mellow sound signature, these are definite MTW2 contenders, and at less than half price!


Any issues with the swipe gestures or app?  If not, maybe I’ll give them another go.


----------



## Shadowclash10

soldiersixteen said:


> Hi everyone, I am considering the Soundcore Liberty Air 2 and will return my Sony wf-1000xm3. Or am I better off waiting for the klipsch t5 ii?


Well, there is a big difference in price. What is the biggest priority? SQ?


----------



## soldiersixteen

Shadowclash10 said:


> Well, there is a big difference in price. What is the biggest priority? SQ?


Sound quality and connection stability with both my phone and my windows laptop. 
The price difference isn't the biggest concern to be honest.


----------



## AudioNoob

*Earfun Air Review*
Well designed, built and presented TWS at a reasonable price point ($55), the Air has excellent microphones, a decent interface including wearing sensors, a good battery life with both quick and wireless charging, and IPX7 waterproofing backing its all-rounding sound signature. They would make good gifts.

Unlike most budget TWS, Earfun puts out products that are well presented and intuitive with well written instruction manuals in multiple languages. They also have (at least from my contact with them) good customer service in the US.

Starting from the outside, the case is light and slim with a nice design distinguished by a subtle dip of the top surface extending down the sides in a subtle curve. There is a single diffused dot of light that comes on when you remove/replace the buds that let you know of the battery life via changes in color.

The stemmed earbuds rest stem down, held by strong magnets that make it slightly difficult to pull them out at times, the round heads lacking an easy grip area. Opening the lid brings on the sync indicating micro leds on the outer surface of the buds that blink until connected. The connection is pretty immediate on all my devices, the buds chiming "Connected" before I get them to my ears. They remember the last device they were connected to, and can remember handshakes with up to eight devices, allowing to use them by turning off bluetooth on the last remembered device / connecting to the available device at hand if the last remembered device is not around.

They use shallow fit silicone tips with a flange and could probably accomodate the misodiko/ikko foams amongst others. The provided silicones are very thin, yet I was able to get a good seal -a task I often have difficulty with- that had them secure enough in my head to stay seated through some headbanging roleplay. Given the shallow fit, they are not the most passively isolating earbuds and I would recommend foams mentioned above if that is a concern.

The interface is touch controlled, allowing a variety of gestures including volume up/down, next song, pause/play, voice assistance. With my hands, the multi-tap gestures work best if I'm deliberate about putting as much of my fingertip as possible. Light taps of small contact surface often go unnoticed. They also have capacitive sensors that know when you take them off -most of the time- and pause/resume playback when you remove/replace one.

The microphone quality is the best I've seen yet. They have two mics in each bud, one at the outer end of the stem and one near the top of the body. I was able to stick my head in the window AC and still make a clear recording.

The sound will please a majority of general users. I would prefer a little more precision, but then, I'm an Etymotics sort of person and my other iems are all detail oriented with faster, more resolving drivers. A sweep finds 10hz deliver an audible rumble with a slightly resonant boom between 50-90hz. The drivers were well matched and I couldn't find any other issues such as driver flex / housing creak. I'm really happy getting this sort of consistency in design from earbuds at this price range. Perhaps they can tweak the onboard DSP a bit given that there wasn't that much absolute roll-off.

The buds are quite as a mouse while on standby / in quiet sections of music, probably the quietest among the handfull of bluetooth earbuds I have at hand. They don't have noticeable delay with either device (20ms-ish on youtube), and support AAC/SBC codecs.

Having noted the lack of extreme precision, I still enjoyed listening to most genres, and benchmarking against others using my test playlist, found that simply dialing the 60hz down one db and 230hz 1.5db brought back a lot of control and dialed down the minor bass boom present in some songs (using the Android system EQ only allows 5 bands) though they still lacked some sub 50hz slam. Given all the other features, I would be happy with them for general listening.

The connection was solid on my phone and ipad both, easily allowing me to work in the kitchen two rooms down in a cincerblock apartment building. The buds are built around the Airoha AB1536 chipset. Potentially, this chipset supports over-the-air firmware updates and DSP presets but there isn't an app for them at the moment, I don't know if there is one in the works. If there was an app to control DSP / Touch sensitivity, these would be even better.


----------



## jant71 (Jul 13, 2020)

Aviot with aptX and aptX Adaptive...




















AVIOT　*TE-D01gv*
Price: 9,000 yen (excluding tax)
Release date: July 17, 2020
 
 The details

This model has improved basic performance while maintaining the size of the conventional model "TE-D01g". By using the latest SoC "QCC3040", the earphones can be played for up to 11 hours and the case can be used for up to 50 hours. In addition, by combining the newly designed antenna, it is said that the interruption of sound is minimized even in the streets and trains where radio waves fly around.

The Bluetooth codec supports aptX Adaptive in addition to SBC/AAC/aptX. aptX Adaptive achieves high connection stability in combination with compatible Android devices.

Φ6mm dynamic type micro speaker is used for the driver. The diaphragm is made of lightweight and highly rigid titanium evaporated PU, and the magnet is made of a high magnetic flux density neodymium magnet.

A high-sensitivity MEMS microphone is adopted as the microphone, and a new external sound capturing function is installed. With the synergistic effect of the cVc noise canceling function, clear calls can be made.

$83 pre-order on Amazon - https://www.amazon.co.jp/AVIOT-TE-D01gv-Bluetooth-ワイヤレスイヤホン-Android/dp/B08BNK9M8N


----------



## FYLegend

darveniza said:


> My Galaxy Buds + are too sensitive and when I moved in my ear for position it always triggers a functions which is annoying trying to go back


For me the Buds+ is rather inconsistent. Maybe my hair is getting too long but especially the right buds struggles to recognize a double tap if I'm too quick. The edge-volume gesture was rather cumbersome to start but seems to work much better after a week. However, it can be quite sensitive to head motion when I'm dancing.

Has anyone here tried Boltune BH-021?
https://www.amazon.ca/Boltune-Bluet...3AEBN9Q10PA&psc=1&refRID=7JFF35CSV3AEBN9Q10PA

I saw that Bomaker Sifi II is listed as FBA on Amazon.ca but now that it's Monday they removed the 10$ coupon =/


----------



## assassin10000

soldiersixteen said:


> Hi everyone, I am considering the Soundcore Liberty Air 2 and will return my Sony wf-1000xm3. Or am I better off waiting for the klipsch t5 ii?



Depends. Are you a basshead and like a very deep V signature? Then yes. 

If you prefer to have good mids or have small size concha you may want to try something else.

Do you know what kind of sound you prefer?



Cevisi said:


> Hi
> 
> I am looking for a tws with small snug fit that won t stick out of my concha. With natural and smooth sound and good battery life.
> 
> ...



Small bean shaped TWS are your best bet. Those with larger ears/concha can fit something like the mifo 05, but I know I would find it uncomfortable for laying on my side.


First gen bomaker sifi.

Tronsmart Spunky Beat, Onyx Neo or Onyx free. 

Not easy to find but anbes 359, kissral r18 or other buds with this shape.


----------



## soldiersixteen

Thanks, I like a bit of bass but definitely not a bass head. I have been using my old UE triple fi10 for the last 10 years. 
Fit is also important as the sonu wf-1000xm3 which I recently got keep falling out


----------



## Cevisi

assassin10000 said:


> Depends. Are you a basshead and like a very deep V signature? Then yes.
> 
> If you prefer to have good mids or have small size concha you may want to try something else.
> 
> ...


Thank you i will give them a look


----------



## logiatype (Jul 13, 2020)

Is there any TWS with microphones that approach something like the over ear WH-1000XM3 (not the WF-1000XM3)?
What seemed like fairly good mics in the Tevi and GBuds seem to pale in comparison to the over-ears (for Teams/Skype/Zoom). Is that too much to expect from TWS?


----------



## assassin10000 (Jul 13, 2020)

soldiersixteen said:


> Thanks, I like a bit of bass but definitely not a bass head. I have been using my old UE triple fi10 for the last 10 years.
> Fit is also important as the sonu wf-1000xm3 which I recently got keep falling out



If you don't mind a lean or colder sounding mid-range the Buds+ are decent. Harman tuned vs neutral tuning that your triple fi 10's are.

If you want a bit more of a warmer more natural sound I'd say the Mavin Air-XR.


Both have plenty of bass, probably more than your current IEM.

The Buds+ I had to EQ both the upper midrange/treble all the way down to the sub bass to fit my preferences (31hz up to 4khz on a 10 band eq).

The Mavins I also EQ but nowhere near as much, just a touch in the bass (31/62/125hz) for longer listening sessions.




logiatype said:


> Is there any TWS with microphones that approach something like the over ear WH-1000XM3 (not the WF-1000XM3)?
> What seemed like fairly good mics in the Tevi and GBuds seem to pale in comparison to the over-ears (for Teams/Skype/Zoom). Is that too much to expect from TWS?



Jabra's are known for having good mics. They started as bluetooth call accessories. Maybe the 75t is worth a look?


----------



## soldiersixteen

assassin10000 said:


> If you don't mind a lean or colder sounding mid-range the Buds+ are decent. Harman tuned vs neutral tuning that your triple fi 10's are.
> 
> If you want a bit more of a warmer more natural sound I'd say the Mavin Air-XR.
> 
> ...


Thanks, I'll check them both out. Actually maybe even the 75t it may suit my needs too


----------



## VICosPhi

soldiersixteen said:


> Thanks, I'll check them both out. Actually maybe even the 75t it may suit my needs too


+1 for Jabra 75t microphone/phone call quality here as I own it and find the call quality very very good. I have heard the Buds+ may even have slightly better microphone quality than 75t though.


----------



## bedlamite (Jul 13, 2020)

Why consider TWS for meetings when working from home? They have short battery life and leaving them in your ears for hours is bound to hurt. Just get a cheap wired Logitech headset with a boom mic for 10 bucks, done.



erockg said:


> Any issues with the swipe gestures or app?  If not, maybe I’ll give them another go.


App looks good, I don't have any issues with it. Haven't played too much with gestures yet, I'll update later. At first glance it seems AKG may be packing too much functionality into one touch surface, touch AND swipe gestures on either side? Sounds like an usability nightmare.


----------



## chinmie

logiatype said:


> Is there any TWS with microphones that approach something like the over ear WH-1000XM3 (not the WF-1000XM3)?
> What seemed like fairly good mics in the Tevi and GBuds seem to pale in comparison to the over-ears (for Teams/Skype/Zoom). Is that too much to expect from TWS?



i have both the WF and WH XM3, and i think the WF has a much better mic


----------



## VICosPhi

I use Plantronics Voyager 3200 for meetings/calls. It is comfortable to wear on one ear and audio quality is as good as you can get for calls (both ways). And it also has a dedicated mute button which is a must at least for me.


----------



## erockg

bedlamite said:


> Why consider TWS for meetings when working from home? They have short battery life and leaving them in your ears for hours is bound to hurt. Just get a cheap wired Logitech headset with a boom mic for 10 bucks, done.
> 
> 
> App looks good, I don't have any issues with it. Haven't played too much with gestures yet, I'll update later. At first glance it seems AKG may be packing too much functionality into one touch surface, touch AND swipe gestures on either side? Sounds like an usability nightmare.


A lot of companies do both.  I think the left side is a swipe to turn on/off passthrough.  Right side, swipe forward and back for volume up/down.  My old Bragi Dash Pro which are long gone did it perfectly.  I may give the AKG another go.  They do sound better than my MTW2's for sure IMO.  Looking forward to hearing your update.  Thanks.


----------



## actorlife

Just saw these for $20 not sure if it’s a sale:
[Upgraded Version of T2] TRANYA T2 Pro Bluetooth 5.0 True Wireless Earbuds, Sports Wireless Headphone with Built-in Mic, Deep Bass, 40 Hours Playtime, IPX5 Sweatproof, Gift Box https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07ZKPBMX5/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_tKrdFbJKM1JNE


----------



## Tronsmart Official

soldiersixteen said:


> Sound quality and connection stability with both my phone and my windows laptop.
> The price difference isn't the biggest concern to be honest.


Maybe you can try Tronsmart Apollo Bold: https://www.tronsmart.com/products/tronsmart-apollo-bold-truewireless-stereo-plus-hybrid-anc-earbuds


----------



## actorlife

Tronsmart Official said:


> Maybe you can try Tronsmart Apollo Bold: https://www.tronsmart.com/products/tronsmart-apollo-bold-truewireless-stereo-plus-hybrid-anc-earbuds


Trying to buy the Neo for $24 on eBay, but sellers won’t budge on price.


----------



## Tronsmart Official

actorlife said:


> Trying to buy the Neo for $24 on eBay, but sellers won’t budge on price.


Maybe you can try amazon or AliExpress, if they have a promotion at present.


----------



## assassin10000 (Jul 13, 2020)

actorlife said:


> Trying to buy the Neo for $24 on eBay, but sellers won’t budge on price.



Fyi AliExpress has a sale right now. If you can get it there is a $2 off $15+ coupon (refreshes top of the hour or $7 off $50+ if you want multiple).


----------



## VICosPhi

Tronsmart Official said:


> Maybe you can try Tronsmart Apollo Bold: https://www.tronsmart.com/products/tronsmart-apollo-bold-truewireless-stereo-plus-hybrid-anc-earbuds



Do you know when these will be available to be purchased on Amazon USA?


----------



## actorlife

assassin10000 said:


> Fyi AliExpress has a sale right now. If you can get it there is a $2 off $15+ coupon (refreshes top of the hour or $7 off $50+ if you want multiple).


Do you have a link for $15? Thanks a lot.


----------



## clerkpalmer

erockg said:


> CA requires that on some.  I think the packaging was universal.  At
> 
> Any issues with the swipe gestures or app?  If not, maybe I’ll give them another go.


Mine are pretty consistent.


----------



## assassin10000

actorlife said:


> Do you have a link for $15? Thanks a lot.



No link. You have to exchange coins for coupons in the app.

Forgot to mention it is for their mobile app.


----------



## erockg

clerkpalmer said:


> Mine are pretty consistent.


I'll give it another go.  Added the Asurion warranty too.  I did really like the sound signature more than my Sennies.


----------



## VICosPhi

erockg said:


> I'll give it another go.  Added the Asurion warranty too.  I did really like the sound signature more than my Sennies.


How would you describe the N400 sound quality when compared to MT2 especially bass/treble quality and quantity?


----------



## Tronsmart Official

VICosPhi said:


> Do you know when these will be available to be purchased on Amazon USA?


 We just got news, there are some shipping problem to Amazon USA, but you can buy from https://www.geekbuying.com/item/Tronsmart-Apollo-Bold-ANC-TWS-Earbuds-425610.html
Or buy on Newegg next month.


----------



## soldiersixteen

Tronsmart Official said:


> We just got news, there are some shipping problem to Amazon USA, but you can buy from https://www.geekbuying.com/item/Tronsmart-Apollo-Bold-ANC-TWS-Earbuds-425610.html
> Or buy on Newegg next month.


How do these compare to the other models like sony wf-1000xm3, buds+ etc?


----------



## Tronsmart Official (Jul 14, 2020)

soldiersixteen said:


> How do these compare to the other models like sony wf-1000xm3, buds+ etc?



Here is the specification comprasion:


Tronsmart Apollo Bold
Airpods ProSony WF-1000XM3Price99.99USD249USD179.99USDNoise cancellation35dB Hybrid active noise cancelling & 6 mics for 360° noise cancelling35dB Hybrid active noise cancelling35dB Hybrid active noise cancellingBluetooth chipQualcomm QCC5124H1 ChipQN1eSignal transmissionTWS+TWSTWS+WaterproofIP45IPX4IPX4ControlTouch controlTouch controlTouch controlQualcomm® cVc™ audio technology√××Audio qualityaptX™, AAC , SBCAACSBC, AACPlay time(single charge)Up to 10-hourUp to 4.5-hourUp to 8-hourPlay time (with charging case)Over 30-hourUp to 24-hourUp to 32-hourCharging portType-CLightningType-CWeight (earbuds)0.24 oz0.38 oz0.6 ozVolume (charging case)1.16 x 0.75 inches2.39 × 1.78 × 0.85 inches2.20 x 1.85 x 0.98 inchesVoice Assistant√√√Bluetooth versionV5.0V5.0V5.0Connection distanceUp to 15mUp to 10mUp to 10m


----------



## soldiersixteen

Tronsmart Official said:


> Here is the specification comprasion:
> 
> 
> 
> Tronsmart Apollo BoldAirpods ProSony WF-1000XM399.99USD249USD179.99USDNoise cancellation35dB Hybrid active noise cancelling & 6 mics for 360° noise cancelling35dB Hybrid active noise cancelling35dB Hybrid active noise cancellingBluetooth chipQualcomm QCC5124H1 ChipQN1eSignal transmissionTWS+TWSTWS+WaterproofIP45IPX4IPX4ControlTouch controlTouch controlTouch controlQualcomm® cVc™ audio technology√××Audio qualityaptX™, AAC , SBCAACSBC, AACPlay time(single charge)Up to 10-hourUp to 4.5-hourUp to 8-hourPlay time (with charging case)Over 30-hourUp to 24-hourUp to 32-hourCharging portType-CLightningType-CWeight (earbuds)0.24 oz0.38 oz0.6 ozVolume (charging case)1.16 x 0.75 inches2.39 × 1.78 × 0.85 inches2.20 x 1.85 x 0.98 inchesVoice Assistant√√√Bluetooth versionV5.0V5.0V5.0Connection distanceUp to 15mUp to 10mUp to 10m


Thanks! Any sellers in Europe or do I have to buy it through aliexpress?


----------



## Tronsmart Official

soldiersixteen said:


> Thanks! Any sellers in Europe or do I have to buy it through aliexpress?


Which country are you from? You can buy on AliExpress, or later buy on Amazon or you can buy through our distributor if we have in your country.
Product link:
https://www.tronsmart.com/products/tronsmart-apollo-bold-truewireless-stereo-plus-hybrid-anc-earbuds


----------



## soldiersixteen

Tronsmart Official said:


> Which country are you from? You can buy on AliExpress, or later buy on Amazon or you can buy through our distributor if we have in your country.
> Product link:
> https://www.tronsmart.com/products/tronsmart-apollo-bold-truewireless-stereo-plus-hybrid-anc-earbuds


By Amazon you also mean Amazon Germany /UK etc right or only Amazon US? If so, any idea when they will be up on amazon? Thanks


----------



## Tronsmart Official

soldiersixteen said:


> By Amazon you also mean Amazon Germany /UK etc right or only Amazon US? If so, any idea when they will be up on amazon? Thanks


Yes, it will be on Amazon UK, DE, IT, ESP etc.


----------



## Howard

Hi all! Long time reader and avid audio nerd here, who hasn't posted for years, coming back! I wrote this review for Amazon but I thought I would share it here for everyone's thoughts and comments/agreement/disagreement. Don't hold back 

This is regarding the Cambridge Audio Melomania 1's.  

I bought a pair of these as I wanted some nice wireless ear/headphones for walking and traveling. I wanted an improvement in sound quality over my cheaper fold-up wired Beyerdynamic 'phones, with the convenience of wireless connectivity.

I have done hours of research on wireless headphones. I'm anal like that. The internet suggests the technology is mature enough to get excellent sound quality and battery life at sensible prices. I was originally going to get some on/over-ears as historically I have never fully got on with in-ears. I was dead set on the Sony WH-1000XM3s until I read further about their described sound signature (all bass, with recessed mids/highs) which is not compatible with my tastes. 

The CAs get universal praise in both reviews and forums. They are purportedly much nicer-sounding than the AirPods, and considering I thought the AirPods were fairly decent when I heard them, I was genuinely excited.

So imagine my disappointment when they turned up, I fired them up, and they sounded like absolute garbage.

My immediate thoughts were "where's the bass?", and "why is the midrange so painfully prolific?".

Much fiddling ensued, including trying all the included tips, and ordering a set of the large memory foam tips. I spent about an hour fiddling with the fitment, and tried music from several different devices. These larger foam tips made a small difference to the bass response, but they still sound like utter rubbish. They're not just slightly disappointing, they are genuinely low-fi. I would expect this sort of sound quality from a cheap pair of earphones included free with a mobile phone, or an old portable CD player.

I don't understand the praise. They seem to fit fine, which is more than I can say for most earphones that I have tried over the years. In fact, the fitment is the best I have experienced yet. but I don't recall being overly impressed with the sound any that I have owned in the past, including Shure and Etymotic models. There is plenty of detail and the soundstage is nice, but they do not sound good with any genres of music that I have tried. I can't even turn them up to enjoyable listening levels without vocals being so ear-piercing.

On the plus side, their form factor is awesome. You pop them in the case, they shut off and start charging. They're always ready for many hours of use. You pull them out, they fire up and connect to your last-used device. Brilliant. They feel like a high quality product, and they are really well-packaged with 100% commonly-recycled materials. 

As said, I am a self-confessed audio/hifi nerd. I'll happily spend hours tweaking something for a minor increase in performance. I know what good sound is, what sort of sound profile I enjoy, how to expect a certain quality at a certain price point, and how to interpret internet reviews and hype. I am genuinely baffled. But oh well. 

I think this settles it; I am expecting too much from earphones. These CAs have gone back to Amazon, and after further deliberation on headphones, A set of Sennheiser PXC550-IIs are now in my position, and I love them.

Again.. Just me? Or has anyone else been disappointed with their quality?


----------



## logiatype

assassin10000 said:


> Jabra's are known for having good mics. They started as bluetooth call accessories. Maybe the 75t is worth a look?



The FR of the 75t don't look like my kind of thing. I want something for listening to music as well as calls.



bedlamite said:


> Why consider TWS for meetings when working from home? They have short battery life and leaving them in your ears for hours is bound to hurt. Just get a cheap wired Logitech headset with a boom mic for 10 bucks, done.



I have one but it's highly inconvenient to swap out IEMs and a headset all day.



chinmie said:


> i have both the WF and WH XM3, and i think the WF has a much better mic



I just ordered the WF to give it a shot. I stubbornly ignored it because of the FR but I might as well try it since I can return it. Thank you.



VICosPhi said:


> I use Plantronics Voyager 3200 for meetings/calls. It is comfortable to wear on one ear and audio quality is as good as you can get for calls (both ways). And it also has a dedicated mute button which is a must at least for me.



Yeah but I'd like to have a combined set for music and calls. I have a wired cheapo logitech headset that works extremely well.


----------



## SilverGrey (Jul 14, 2020)

Howard said:


> Hi all! Long time reader and avid audio nerd here, who hasn't posted for years, coming back! I wrote this review for Amazon but I thought I would share it here for everyone's thoughts and comments/agreement/disagreement. Don't hold back
> 
> This is regarding the Cambridge Audio Melomania 1's.
> 
> ...



I too am a longtime lurker round here and have been following this thread very closely.

To give you a bit of background, I own several headphones/earbuds (Beyerdynamic, Westone, B&W, Etymotic and Grado so not exactly a novice), but quite fancy having a pair of TWS buds.  The form factor looks convenient.

From what I've seen, there seems to be a huge number of brands out there that I've never heard of.  A lot of them produce very cheap goods, most of which seem to be of questionable quality when reading reviews on Amazon.  Several times I have almost bought a pair (including the CA Melomania) only to hang back after having read the 1 star reviews.  I think someone summed it up perfectly by saying it's a "roulette wheel of quality".  Yes, I'm sure some people have perfect examples that don't fail, while there are others who have had bad experiences.

And perhaps I'm still not sure that technology is quite there.  I would consider £100 better spent on a pair of wired headphones as there are no issues concerning battery life, charging time, connectivity and CODECs which are all factors to consider when choosing a pair of wireless buds.  It just seems too much of a gamble.


----------



## actorlife

actorlife said:


> Just saw these for $20 not sure if it’s a sale:
> [Upgraded Version of T2] TRANYA T2 Pro Bluetooth 5.0 True Wireless Earbuds, Sports Wireless Headphone with Built-in Mic, Deep Bass, 40 Hours Playtime, IPX5 Sweatproof, Gift Box https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07ZKPBMX5/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_tKrdFbJKM1JNE


Well I bought them I did like the Tranya I had before. Hopefully some great highs, mids and tight bass. If not they go back. I’ll get the tronsmart neo soon.


----------



## VICosPhi

Tronsmart Official said:


> We just got news, there are some shipping problem to Amazon USA, but you can buy from https://www.geekbuying.com/item/Tronsmart-Apollo-Bold-ANC-TWS-Earbuds-425610.html
> Or buy on Newegg next month.


Thanks, I can buy it from Geekbuying then. Do you know if they have it in stock or the date when these will be available in stock/released?


----------



## Caipirina

Howard said:


> Hi all! Long time reader and avid audio nerd here, who hasn't posted for years, coming back! I wrote this review for Amazon but I thought I would share it here for everyone's thoughts and comments/agreement/disagreement. Don't hold back
> 
> This is regarding the Cambridge Audio Melomania 1's.
> 
> ...



Interesting! I had read so many good things about them off / on over the last year and a half here that when I saw them for 92€ on amazon warehouse, I just had to get them.
But just like you, the sound did not impress me at all (neither did the fitting actually) ... i tried with different tips but never got them to sound better than just 'ok' ... so, they went back ..


----------



## gdv brisbane

SilverGrey said:


> I too am a longtime lurker round here and have been following this thread very closely.
> 
> To give you a bit of background, I own several headphones/earbuds (Beyerdynamic, Westone, B&W, Etymotic and Grado so not exactly a novice), but quite fancy having a pair of TWS buds.  The form factor looks convenient.
> And perhaps I'm still not sure that technology is quite there.  I would consider £100 better spent on a pair of wired headphones as there are no issues concerning battery life, charging time, connectivity and CODECs which are all factors to consider when choosing a pair of wireless buds.  It just seems too much of a gamble.



Like you, I was initially concerned that a TWS wouldn't be able to hold a candle to my Etymotic ER4s. However, having "gambled" £24 on a pair of SSKs and then £20 on a pair of Soundpeats Truedots, I can assure you that the SQ is excellent and that they represent staggering value for money. Time to take the plunge...


----------



## Sam L (Jul 14, 2020)

chinmie said:


> i have both the WF and WH XM3, and i think the WF has a much better mic


Agreed. I have both and the wf mics are way better. But nothing beats airpods pros for mic quality.

I have some Fiil CC's inbound. After reading scarbir's review highlighting excellent mics, I figured worth a shot.


----------



## Luchyres

Sam L said:


> Agreed. I have both and the wf mics are way better. But nothing beats airpods pros for mic quality.
> 
> I have some Fiil CC's inbound. After reading scarbir's review highlighting excellent mics, I figured worth a shot.



Will be interested to hear your impressions of these for sure! Where did you buy them from?


----------



## d3myz

logiatype said:


> Is there any TWS with microphones that approach something like the over ear WH-1000XM3 (not the WF-1000XM3)?
> What seemed like fairly good mics in the Tevi and GBuds seem to pale in comparison to the over-ears (for Teams/Skype/Zoom). Is that too much to expect from TWS?


I’m a big fan of the jabra elite 75T microphone. I get compliments on how good it sounds all the time. And in a direct comparison with the WF-1000XM3 I’ve been told it sounds better.


----------



## d3myz

Sam L said:


> Agreed. I have both and the wf mics are way better. But nothing beats airpods pros for mic quality.
> 
> I have some Fiil CC's inbound. After reading scarbir's review highlighting excellent mics, I figured worth a shot.


I’d argue the Jabra elite 75t is better, Particularly so on video calls


----------



## logiatype

d3myz said:


> I’d argue the Jabra elite 75t is better, Particularly so on video calls


Hard to get over how this looks lol:


----------



## _daRK

d3myz said:


> I’m a big fan of the jabra elite 75T microphone. I get compliments on how good it sounds all the time. And in a direct comparison with the WF-1000XM3 I’ve been told it sounds better.


Jabra 75t don't sound even close to WF-1000XM3. Returned them both because of comfort issues, but Jabras sound much worse. I liked sound of Sonys very much. I tried Buds+ and I think it is the safest buy. I considered Sennheiser TWS 2 too, but I cannot justify their high price if the battery will make them a garbage after 2 years.


----------



## Shadowclash10

actorlife said:


> Just saw these for $20 not sure if it’s a sale:
> [Upgraded Version of T2] TRANYA T2 Pro Bluetooth 5.0 True Wireless Earbuds, Sports Wireless Headphone with Built-in Mic, Deep Bass, 40 Hours Playtime, IPX5 Sweatproof, Gift Box https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07ZKPBMX5/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_tKrdFbJKM1JNE


Looks like they are $10 off.


----------



## Shadowclash10

actorlife said:


> Well I bought them I did like the Tranya I had before. Hopefully some great highs, mids and tight bass. If not they go back. I’ll get the tronsmart neo soon.


Argh. Chi-fi makes hi-fi TWS so unappealing


----------



## Sam L

Luchyres said:


> Will be interested to hear your impressions of these for sure! Where did you buy them from?


gearbest


----------



## actorlife

Shadowclash10 said:


> Looks like they are $10 off.


Oh good. I hope they shine. Should have them by Friday.


----------



## actorlife

Shadowclash10 said:


> Argh. Chi-fi makes hi-fi TWS so unappealing


I would not spend over $35 for any TWS. Chi-fi like Anbes 359 is top hifi. I hope they will come out with something this year or next.


----------



## Tronsmart Official

VICosPhi said:


> Thanks, I can buy it from Geekbuying then. Do you know if they have it in stock or the date when these will be available in stock/released?


Yes, they have stock now. You can buy it.


----------



## AudioNoob

logiatype said:


> The FR of the 75t don't look like my kind of thing. I want something for listening to music as well as calls.
> 
> I have one but it's highly inconvenient to swap out IEMs and a headset all day.
> 
> ...


The Earfun Air that I just reviewed did pretty well with voice recordings/mic, I was clear even when I stuck my head in front of the window air conditioner. The sound is pretty alright as well (certainly for $55) though not Knowles BA etc level. The connection and the interface were pretty good, the battery life is also great and the case small with wireless charging. The copy I had some issue with the case, they are sending a replacement.


----------



## voicemaster

I washed my gbuds+ by accident and now the case is broken, but the buds are working just fine luckily. I am using my original gbuds for charging.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

soldiersixteen said:


> Hi everyone, I am considering the Soundcore Liberty Air 2 and will return my Sony wf-1000xm3. Or am I better off waiting for the klipsch t5 ii?



I had the Liberty Air 2 and they were not bad, but I needed to use some of the Pro EQ settings in the app to get the best sound from them. Several of the Pro EQ sounded better than what I was able to do manual. The Hear-ID (or whatever it was called) where it measures your hearing and does an EQ for your own ears didn't work well for me, and over-adjusted for my high frequency hearing loss so that the treble was piercing. Just use manual EQ or the Pro EQ in the app.

I had some mild driver flex issues when inserting them or adjusting them, but it was very mild and I did not need to resort to tip rolling. I also liked the Qi charging, and the auto-pause feature when I removed them from my ears. I think I had bought them for just under $99 and if I didn't have so many TWS I might have kept them.


----------



## erockg

VICosPhi said:


> How would you describe the N400 sound quality when compared to MT2 especially bass/treble quality and quantity?


Bass on the AKG is much more powerful and tight IMO.  Soundstage is wider on the MTW2.  AKG soundstage is a bit smaller but not bad by any means.  For over $100 less and with a Qi charging case, I think the AKG’s are the better value and maybe even better sounding.  But everyone’s ears are different.


----------



## VICosPhi

erockg said:


> Bass on the AKG is much more powerful and tight IMO.  Soundstage is wider on the MTW2.  AKG soundstage is a bit smaller but not bad by any means.  For over $100 less and with a Qi charging case, I think the AKG’s are the better value and maybe even better sounding.  But everyone’s ears are different.


Thanks, do the AKGs have good amount of treble or are they darker sounding when compared to MTW2?


----------



## Rapy

BigZ12 said:


> Where?
> 
> Edit: I got it now.
> From upgrade instructions: "Once finishing upgrading for both sides, the Bluetooth Name will be changed from [LYPERTEK] TEVI - L/R to LYPERTEK TEVI - L/R. That means TEVI can be used with App."
> ...


How much battery life are you getting. M using oneplus 5T plus apple music, Aptx plus 50-60% volume, i am getting only 5-6 hrs. Though company claims 8-10 hrs. What about your experience ?


----------



## logiatype

Rapy said:


> How much battery life are you getting. M using oneplus 5T plus apple music, Aptx plus 50-60% volume, i am getting only 5-6 hrs. Though company claims 8-10 hrs. What about your experience ?


I use mine all day through commuting and work and they've never died on me (iPhone, YouTube and Google Play Music). Definitely more than 6 hours.


----------



## Rapy

d3myz said:


> Anything is possible. But I have listened to Roughly 10 different TWS’ this week at least 3 or 4 of which had very little bass. I may have just gotten a bad pair, but I’m telling you man. I’ve tried for five different tips on them. And as I said I just spent four hours listening to them and they make the MPower T5 sound like the tranya T3 in an A/B comparison. I own the QCY T1- pro  and that headphone has the least amount of bass of any TWS that I own and it's got very sparkly highs and even it has better bass., I'm kind of shocked because Ii stopped using these, but damn they sound good. a little too v shaped though. I wouldn't call the Tevi neutral, it's boosted in the mids like the T5, but it def. has more clarity. In order for it to be neutral or flat, it would need more bass and less mid IMO. I'll bed the galaxy buds sound better.
> 
> Edit:
> 
> Tevi's' have less bass than the Bomaker Sifi. they aren't quite as bright as the Bo's but the Bo's sound very full and much louder in comparison. The Tevi still sounds better as far as the quality is concerned but there is hardly any low end.


What is the battery life that you are getting out of Tevis ?


----------



## Spidermanxd

Rapy said:


> What is the battery life that you are getting out of Tevis ?


Not just the Tevis but applied to all TWS buds, if they stated 8hrs, take away 1-3 hrs,


----------



## Rapy

M using oneplus 5T plus apple music, Aptx plus 50-60% volume, i am getting only 5-6 hrs. Though company claims 8-10 hrs. What about your experience ?


----------



## assassin10000

Spidermanxd said:


> Not just the Tevis but applied to all TWS buds, if they stated 8hrs, take away 1-3 hrs,



Agreed.

There have been a couple exceptions. I got 9:20 out of the WF-1000XM3'S and a couple minutes over 12 hours from the Buds+. I do listen at low to med volumes (ie less than 50%).


----------



## Spidermanxd

assassin10000 said:


> Agreed.
> 
> There have been a couple exceptions. I got 9:20 out of the WF-1000XM3'S and a couple minutes over 12 hours from the Buds+. I do listen at low to med volumes (ie less than 50%).


There no way in he'll you get 9:20 on xm3, i owned a total of 6 xm3 and maxed i get out is 6 hrs, with anc turned off you might get 7hrs


----------



## erockg

VICosPhi said:


> Thanks, do the AKGs have good amount of treble or are they darker sounding when compared to MTW2?


I find them brighter, not darker.  You can also EQ them.


----------



## TYATYA

Spidermanxd said:


> Not just the Tevis but applied to all TWS buds, if they stated 8hrs, take away 1-3 hrs,


Wrong to B&O E8 or Panasonic AZ70 bcs they last 5.5/6 and 6/7 hours


----------



## assassin10000

Spidermanxd said:


> There no way in he'll you get 9:20 on xm3, i owned a total of 6 xm3 and maxed i get out is 6 hrs, with anc turned off you might get 7hrs



Yep. The one we traded actually lol. 

ANC, EQ & DSEE off. 20% volume w/AAC.

7:30 to warning message. Shut off at 9:23 minutes.


----------



## Bhelpoori

Rapy said:


> M using oneplus 5T plus apple music, Aptx plus 50-60% volume, i am getting only 5-6 hrs. Though company claims 8-10 hrs. What about your experience ?


AptX on a Qualcomm 302x series chipset uses 20-30% more power over SBC and AAC. If you want to reach 8 hours then you probably need to force the options to make it AAC.


----------



## Caipirina

Besides that I wish that Bose would FINALLY get their ANC SSF out the door ... i feel that I deserve one more TWS set   I just got refund confirmation for one set that I had ordered in March from AliExpress and despite many extensions on protection time, after 4 months I finally 'won' the dispute 

But what to get, the AKG and the Sony Spoon 800 are nowhere to be seen here. I was combing around amazon warehouse for some brand name stuff that was super hip a year ago and finally can be had for reasonable price .. i.e. found a regular Jabra 65 for 56€ .. not sure though if I want that ... i would not mind getting the old old Jabra Elite Sport for that price (was my first ever TWS) , but that's still like 100€ AND I recall that battery / charging behavior was super random and unreliable ... 
Sennheiser still to expensive ...  i am hoping for another 'win' like my XM3s for 140€, which needed quite a while to fall in love with, but pretty happy now ... 

any ideas?


----------



## soldiersixteen

Caipirina said:


> Besides that I wish that Bose would FINALLY get their ANC SSF out the door ... i feel that I deserve one more TWS set   I just got refund confirmation for one set that I had ordered in March from AliExpress and despite many extensions on protection time, after 4 months I finally 'won' the dispute
> 
> But what to get, the AKG and the Sony Spoon 800 are nowhere to be seen here. I was combing around amazon warehouse for some brand name stuff that was super hip a year ago and finally can be had for reasonable price .. i.e. found a regular Jabra 65 for 56€ .. not sure though if I want that ... i would not mind getting the old old Jabra Elite Sport for that price (was my first ever TWS) , but that's still like 100€ AND I recall that battery / charging behavior was super random and unreliable ...
> Sennheiser still to expensive ...  i am hoping for another 'win' like my XM3s for 140€, which needed quite a while to fall in love with, but pretty happy now ...
> ...


I don't know if they're any good, but I'm thinking of ordering Tronsmart Apollo Bold once they are on Amazon


----------



## rcoleman1

soldiersixteen said:


> I don't know if they're any good, but I'm thinking of ordering Tronsmart Apollo Bold once they are on Amazon


Awaiting impressions on them myself.


----------



## clerkpalmer

Caipirina said:


> Besides that I wish that Bose would FINALLY get their ANC SSF out the door ... i feel that I deserve one more TWS set   I just got refund confirmation for one set that I had ordered in March from AliExpress and despite many extensions on protection time, after 4 months I finally 'won' the dispute
> 
> But what to get, the AKG and the Sony Spoon 800 are nowhere to be seen here. I was combing around amazon warehouse for some brand name stuff that was super hip a year ago and finally can be had for reasonable price .. i.e. found a regular Jabra 65 for 56€ .. not sure though if I want that ... i would not mind getting the old old Jabra Elite Sport for that price (was my first ever TWS) , but that's still like 100€ AND I recall that battery / charging behavior was super random and unreliable ...
> Sennheiser still to expensive ...  i am hoping for another 'win' like my XM3s for 140€, which needed quite a while to fall in love with, but pretty happy now ...
> ...


I'm clearly a fanboy at this stage but the AKG are the most "special" TWS I've tried since the MW07.  They have that same M&D "magic" that makes them sing.  They stand out in a crowd.


----------



## voicemaster

Does anyone tried fiil t1xs yet?


----------



## d3myz

Anyone ordered the Panasonic the 


logiatype said:


> Hard to get over how this looks lol:


since the last firmware update that has definitely not been my experience with these. they are much more balanced than they used to be.


----------



## Caipirina

clerkpalmer said:


> I'm clearly a fanboy at this stage but the AKG are the most "special" TWS I've tried since the MW07.  They have that same M&D "magic" that makes them sing.  They stand out in a crowd.


Thanks for that little double stinger  my MW07 were scheduled to come today, according to Fedex, even after some time at customs, but somehow it shows up back at their distribution hub .. so, maybe tomorrow .. 
As for the N400 .. even checked local Samsung presence ... nada ... so, that will take a while ...   how you'd rate the ANC on those? (sorry if I have not read previous reviews in depth)


----------



## clerkpalmer

Caipirina said:


> Thanks for that little double stinger  my MW07 were scheduled to come today, according to Fedex, even after some time at customs, but somehow it shows up back at their distribution hub .. so, maybe tomorrow ..
> As for the N400 .. even checked local Samsung presence ... nada ... so, that will take a while ...   how you'd rate the ANC on those? (sorry if I have not read previous reviews in depth)



ANC is pretty good. Not Sony or Apple good but not bad.  Better than Senn and M&D for sure.


----------



## Sam L

Spidermanxd said:


> There no way in he'll you get 9:20 on xm3, i owned a total of 6 xm3 and maxed i get out is 6 hrs, with anc turned off you might get 7hrs


I'm guessing he listens at really low volume, so I have no reason to be doubtful.


----------



## jant71

What is wrong with these people?




So entrenched in the drivers count and they can't stop. Why? Why is 30 hours with the case 10 recharges. 3 hours again cause they have to put 4 armatures in them. How about less higher quality armatures and save room for a real size battery.  No volume control either. 6 hours and volume control and I'd try a green one. Of course the case is pretty big to get the 10 recharges that you could just about fit another set in there .


----------



## actorlife

Whoa they came early. Charging.


----------



## Mouseman

actorlife said:


> Whoa they came early. Charging.


Bananas and....T10s??


----------



## Shadowclash10

voicemaster said:


> I washed my gbuds+ by accident and now the case is broken, but the buds are working just fine luckily. I am using my original gbuds for charging.


Nice save. Do they work just as fine? Can you get a replacement?


----------



## Shadowclash10

Spidermanxd said:


> Not just the Tevis but applied to all TWS buds, if they stated 8hrs, take away 1-3 hrs,


Generally true. Interestingly, Samsung claims 11 hours for Galaxy Buds +, but tests get 12hr40mins - 13 hours. Weird.


----------



## Shadowclash10

Caipirina said:


> Besides that I wish that Bose would FINALLY get their ANC SSF out the door ... i feel that I deserve one more TWS set   I just got refund confirmation for one set that I had ordered in March from AliExpress and despite many extensions on protection time, after 4 months I finally 'won' the dispute
> 
> But what to get, the AKG and the Sony Spoon 800 are nowhere to be seen here. I was combing around amazon warehouse for some brand name stuff that was super hip a year ago and finally can be had for reasonable price .. i.e. found a regular Jabra 65 for 56€ .. not sure though if I want that ... i would not mind getting the old old Jabra Elite Sport for that price (was my first ever TWS) , but that's still like 100€ AND I recall that battery / charging behavior was super random and unreliable ...
> Sennheiser still to expensive ...  i am hoping for another 'win' like my XM3s for 140€, which needed quite a while to fall in love with, but pretty happy now ...
> ...


Well, Samsung Galaxy Buds Live are suppossed to be unveiled/potentially coming to market on Aug 5th, during Samsung's Unpacked event. You know, the bean shaped ones . Potentially $150 for 11+ hours of battery, ANC, etc. Those are what I am waiting for BTW.


----------



## Shadowclash10

Mouseman said:


> Bananas and....T10s??


NO. Just the bananas. Tranya shipped the bananas in the box labled Tranya, ofc. I suppose it's a new trend: Tranya shipping giant TWs bananas, Samsung unveiling bean TWSs.


----------



## Shadowclash10

actorlife said:


> Whoa they came early. Charging.


You NEED to post impressions now . I'm dying for reviews.


----------



## Shadowclash10

jant71 said:


> What is wrong with these people?
> 
> So entrenched in the drivers count and they can't stop. Why? Why is 30 hours with the case 10 recharges. 3 hours again cause they have to put 4 armatures in them. How about less higher quality armatures and save room for a real size battery.  No volume control either. 6 hours and volume control and I'd try a green one. Of course the case is pretty big to get the 10 recharges that you could just about fit another set in there .


Right? And the early bird price is for $50!


----------



## Tronsmart Official

soldiersixteen said:


> I don't know if they're any good, but I'm thinking of ordering Tronsmart Apollo Bold once they are on Amazon


Now Apollo Bold is avaliable on Amazon Europe.


----------



## actorlife (Jul 15, 2020)

Shadowclash10 said:


> You NEED to post impressions now . I'm dying for reviews.


Tranya T2 Clear pristine treble and not harsh. Mids are decent. Vocals are clear as a bell depending on what mic the artist use. Bass is surprisingly tight and not boomy. Decent soundstage. I’m guessing like with the Anbes 359 soundstage it will get better. I’m impressed so far. On air TV sounds great and crispy with voices. Need to see how it sounds with movie dialogue. I’m sure it will be great. A steal at 19.99(We’re $60 when introduced) just get them. No return from me. Bananas for everyone! Rah.


----------



## Mouseman

Shadowclash10 said:


> NO. Just the bananas. Tranya shipped the bananas in the box labled Tranya, ofc. I suppose it's a new trend: Tranya shipping giant TWs bananas, Samsung unveiling bean TWSs.


Do they have more than a 3 hour battery life?


----------



## axhng

jant71 said:


> What is wrong with these people?
> 
> So entrenched in the drivers count and they can't stop. Why? Why is 30 hours with the case 10 recharges. 3 hours again cause they have to put 4 armatures in them. How about less higher quality armatures and save room for a real size battery.  No volume control either. 6 hours and volume control and I'd try a green one. Of course the case is pretty big to get the 10 recharges that you could just about fit another set in there .



as the price gets higher, it becomes less and less acceptable for shorter battery life since it will mean overall shorter usable lifespan for the TWS too. More recharges, more charging cycles, and it will just get worse exponentially as time goes on. :/ I still really enjoy using the KZ Z1 because the sound signature and punchy bass works great for jogging, but after about 2.5 months of regular use, my battery life has dropped from around 2 hours of use per charge to around 1.5 hours of use per charge.


----------



## chinmie

jant71 said:


> What is wrong with these people?
> 
> So entrenched in the drivers count and they can't stop. Why? Why is 30 hours with the case 10 recharges. 3 hours again cause they have to put 4 armatures in them. How about less higher quality armatures and save room for a real size battery.  No volume control either. 6 hours and volume control and I'd try a green one. Of course the case is pretty big to get the 10 recharges that you could just about fit another set in there .



3 hours per charge is so 2016.. 
KZ and CCA seem to miss the point of having TWS in the first place. functionality is the priority (well, at least for me). at this stage, their selling point of having multiple drivers comes of as a gimmick to me.. in the end good or bad sound is judged by what heard, not numbers of driver/types of it used. if I'm so concerned about the best sound on the go, the best solution would still be wired IEMs of my choice, and slap some BT20S or BT dongles to it


----------



## actorlife (Jul 15, 2020)

Mouseman said:


> Do they have more than a 3 hour battery life?


6-8hr depending on volume of course. Get them only 19$ My minimum on battery is 6-8 hours. Any lower I’m out.


----------



## DynamicEars

axhng said:


> as the price gets higher, it becomes less and less acceptable for shorter battery life since it will mean overall shorter usable lifespan for the TWS too. More recharges, more charging cycles, and it will just get worse exponentially as time goes on. :/ I still really enjoy using the KZ Z1 because the sound signature and punchy bass works great for jogging, but after about 2.5 months of regular use, my battery life has dropped from around 2 hours of use per charge to around 1.5 hours of use per charge.



They came to worst situation. I will skip few models until they fix batt issue, and connection issue


----------



## jant71

axhng said:


> as the price gets higher, it becomes less and less acceptable for shorter battery life since it will mean overall shorter usable lifespan for the TWS too. More recharges, more charging cycles, and it will just get worse exponentially as time goes on. :/ I still really enjoy using the KZ Z1 because the sound signature and punchy bass works great for jogging, but after about 2.5 months of regular use, my battery life has dropped from around 2 hours of use per charge to around 1.5 hours of use per charge.



That is the other side of the coin. Better batteries usually both give longer run times and they don't diminish till further down the line.

With the extra drivers I don't know if the CCA version will even get 3 hours out of the box. If they rate it at 50% volume and that 50% is not realistic for the outside world, jogging, commuting, etc. You have to be sure you don't have any long use needs. You would not be using these for a marathon.


----------



## FYLegend

I get around 6-7 hours of battery life on Sabbat E12 Ultra, and the case seems to last over 24 hours as I can listen to them for about a week.

The Tronsmart Onyx Neo only lasts about 2.5 to 3 hours for me. They constantly emit a noticeable hiss, especially the left buds which sounds somewhat brighter in the mids and treble. There was another user here who complained about short battery life but found that this was only because one side got a "low battery warning" and you could get another 3 hours with the other bud as the master. Still, I never had this issue with Sabbat E12 Ultra. Also has no battery indicator on the case!



assassin10000 said:


> Agreed.
> 
> There have been a couple exceptions. I got 9:20 out of the WF-1000XM3'S and a couple minutes over 12 hours from the Buds+. I do listen at low to med volumes (ie less than 50%).


I find the Buds+ to last long but the case is potato and often drains within the first day (when listening for 6-8 hours, sometimes even less). Wish there was a third-party case with large battery life and I'm surprised there's none except a DIY post on Reddit.


----------



## benngmunkit (Jul 15, 2020)

voicemaster said:


> Does anyone tried fiil t1xs yet?


I did, got them for a week now and it seems perfect all rounder for me, though no ANC and no Qi charging. SQ wise is great but soundstage lacks a little bit of height. Instrument separation is great too. App is in Chinese so you have to translate to understand most features.


----------



## actorlife (Jul 15, 2020)

FYLegend said:


> I get around 6-7 hours of battery life on Sabbat E12 Ultra, and the case seems to last over 24 hours as I can listen to them for about a week.
> 
> The Tronsmart Onyx Neo only lasts about 2.5 to 3 hours for me. They constantly emit a noticeable hiss, especially the left buds which sounds somewhat brighter in the mids and treble. There was another user here who complained about short battery life but found that this was only because one side got a "low battery warning" and you could get another 3 hours with the other bud as the master. Still, I never had this issue with Sabbat E12 Ultra. Also has no battery indicator on the case!
> 
> ...


Dang only 4hrs?? on the Neo damn. Good thing I didn’t get them. What about the spunky beats? I need at least 6hrs darn it.


----------



## assassin10000

jant71 said:


> What is wrong with these people?
> 
> So entrenched in the drivers count and they can't stop. Why? Why is 30 hours with the case 10 recharges. 3 hours again cause they have to put 4 armatures in them. How about less higher quality armatures and save room for a real size battery.  No volume control either. 6 hours and volume control and I'd try a green one. Of course the case is pretty big to get the 10 recharges that you could just about fit another set in there .



Greed lol. They are basically taking their current business model and applying it to mediocre TWS.



axhng said:


> as the price gets higher, it becomes less and less acceptable for shorter battery life since it will mean overall shorter usable lifespan for the TWS too. More recharges, more charging cycles, and it will just get worse exponentially as time goes on. :/ I still really enjoy using the KZ Z1 because the sound signature and punchy bass works great for jogging, but after about 2.5 months of regular use, my battery life has dropped from around 2 hours of use per charge to around 1.5 hours of use per charge.





chinmie said:


> 3 hours per charge is so 2016..
> KZ and CCA seem to miss the point of having TWS in the first place. functionality is the priority (well, at least for me). at this stage, their selling point of having multiple drivers comes of as a gimmick to me.. in the end good or bad sound is judged by what heard, not numbers of driver/types of it used. if I'm so concerned about the best sound on the go, the best solution would still be wired IEMs of my choice, and slap some BT20S or BT dongles to it





DynamicEars said:


> They came to worst situation. I will skip few models until they fix batt issue, and connection issue



I haven't even felt a slight temptation for any of the KZ TWS. Their bluetooth implementation has been poor from the start (bt neck cables) and seems to have carried over to their TWS. The low battery life would be aggravating. I just see no reason to try any of them.




actorlife said:


> Dang only 4hrs?? on the Neo damn. What about the spunky beats? I need at least 6hrs darn it.



About 3 hours +/- 20 minutes depending on if APT-X (-20) or SBC (+20).


----------



## benngmunkit

benngmunkit said:


> I did, got them for a week now and it seems perfect all rounder for me, though no ANC and no Qi charging. SQ wise is great but soundstage lacks a little bit of height. Instrument separation is great too. App is in Chinese so you have to translate to understand most features.



Photos as attached, love the small case too, very pocketable.


----------



## axhng

jant71 said:


> That is the other side of the coin. Better batteries usually both give longer run times and they don't diminish till further down the line.
> 
> With the extra drivers I don't know if the CCA version will even get 3 hours out of the box. If they rate it at 50% volume and that 50% is not realistic for the outside world, jogging, commuting, etc. You have to be sure you don't have any long use needs. You would not be using these for a marathon.



I think there is a good chance it might actually. KZ's battery life rating has been pretty spot on for me for most of their TWS offerings when I'm using it at my listening volume. For the Z1 i'm normally at like 45% volume at home and 55% when I'm jogging. So for those using at higher volume, maybe it might be worse.  The Z1 is still fine for me for the most part and i'll probably keep using them for regular jogs, but for longer ones, probably have to stop using them since they are already starting to give low battery warning before I could finish. CX10 might be a bit better at first, but probably half a year down the road it'll be the same deal.


----------



## erockg (Jul 15, 2020)

Got my replacement AKG N400's.  Man, they are just awesome.  IMO, way better than the Sennies.  Swipes work better than the first pair, which came opened as if used already.  This new pair were sealed.  So far, so good.  Love that it's a Qi charging case.  If you can try them and have Amazon Prime, you should.


----------



## soldiersixteen

Tronsmart Official said:


> Now Apollo Bold is avaliable on Amazon Europe.


Great! Will wait for couple of reviews and then order it!


----------



## FYLegend

Tronsmart Official said:


> Now Apollo Bold is avaliable on Amazon Europe.


Will you list on Amazon.ca?


----------



## Caipirina

received my MW07 "classic" (no plus, no go) today, and at 99€ I am happy as a clam from the first 15 minutes of listening. Still at XL stock tips and large wing thing, I can only imagine that some tip rolling might improve the experience. Very impressed with detail / clarity / imaging. That sense of 'has this always been in this song'? discoveries. 
Not sure though if I would have ever paid 299$ for this, no matter how pretty they look  
but maybe I should look into the Plus / Go options again (in a year or so )


----------



## Samplingentropy

soldiersixteen said:


> I don't know if they're any good, but I'm thinking of ordering Tronsmart Apollo Bold once they are on Amazon


I am waiting on a test sample, I my not be as experienced in reviewing as some of my fellow head-fi'ers but I will do my best to tell how they sound to my ears as soon as they arrive.


----------



## Sebulr

Bomaker sifi 2 on Amazon UK for £28.99 don't mind if I do. Hopefully as good as the original.


----------



## SilverGrey

Sebulr said:


> Bomaker sifi 2 on Amazon UK for £28.99 don't mind if I do. Hopefully as good as the original.



Apparently sifi2 doesn't support APTX whereas the first version did.  I'm looking for a pair of cheapish but decent sounding buds and it's a minefield!


----------



## Caipirina

SilverGrey said:


> Apparently sifi2 doesn't support APTX whereas the first version did.  I'm looking for a pair of cheapish but decent sounding buds and it's a minefield!


Tronsmart Spunky Beats come to mind. My fav budget buds ever since the Anbes 359 and now the SiFi 1 are not available (hard to get?) anymore. Plus they have AptX and I actually end up using that tiny built in USB-A cable from time to time, charging directly from laptop. The touch fields are a tad finicky, I to not re-adjust the buds as that would pretty certainly pause my music


----------



## dasadab (Jul 16, 2020)

erockg said:


> Got my replacement AKG N400's.  Man, they are just awesome.  IMO, way better than the Sennies.  Swipes work better than the first pair, which came opened as if used already.  This new pair were sealed.  So far, so good.  Love that it's a Qi charging case.  If you can try them and have Amazon Prime, you should.



Do they sound to your ears better than the Sony XM3s or the Nural Pros.  I’m tempted, but the Nural Pros are my favorite sonically.  Just no ANC, but I like the sound signature and form factor.

Thanks!


----------



## Caipirina

Need help identifying those wings (sizes) for the M30 ... I wonder if they did a mistake. Besides the pair that was on the set (bottom), I got 2 more pairs (two top rows) ... ideally that should be S, M, L, no? But to me it looks like S, M & another M! I wish there was one bigger size. The bottom 2 pairs look and feel identical to me ... 



Somehow the picture got rotated against my will. Bottom is now right side


----------



## Caipirina

d3myz said:


> Here are my overall favs right now. Keep in mind that The only TWS' that I EQ are ones that have apps. L2pro, XM3's and the FIIL.
> 
> 1. Sony WF-1000xm3
> 2. Liberty 2 Pro
> ...


How are those Apanage T20? I see they have AptX and they sell currently at 18€ over by the river people


----------



## bedlamite

dasadab said:


> Do they sound to your ears better than the Sony XM3s or the Nural Pros.  I’m tempted, but the Nural Pros are my favorite sonically.  Just no ANC, but I like the sound signature and form factor.
> 
> Thanks!


I've not tried the Nuarls but I have the MTW2s, Sony WFs and the n400s. The AKGs are more musical than the Sonys and come very close to the Senns. The WFs certainly are no slouch, but vocals are more present on the AKGs. Senn bass can be a bit much (tho the warmer sound signature makes for very pleasant listening) and the AKGs pull it back a bit which gives it a nice clean sound. There is bass punch when needed, it's just not as warm as the MTW2s.

I'm running the Senns and the AKGs on stock EQ, but I'm EQing the Sonys (brought 400Hz down a few notches as I felt vocals sounded a bit metallic on stock). The great thing is that all 3 units have good apps with EQ functionality so you can tweak the sound as you like. Personally I feel the Senns and AKGs sound fantastic out of the box.

It's amazing that AKG is even in this conversation, considering they can be had for much, much cheaper than the Senn (less than half price!) and Sony. I'm sure you could get similar sound quality from a cheapo Chifi TWS but the n400s are the full package. Great build quality on the buds and case, app support, ANC, wireless charging.


----------



## jasonb

bedlamite said:


> I've not tried the Nuarls but I have the MTW2s, Sony WFs and the n400s. The AKGs are more musical than the Sonys and come very close to the Senns. The WFs certainly are no slouch, but vocals are more present on the AKGs. Senn bass can be a bit much (tho the warmer sound signature makes for very pleasant listening) and the AKGs pull it back a bit which gives it a nice clean sound. There is bass punch when needed, it's just not as warm as the MTW2s.
> 
> I'm running the Senns and the AKGs on stock EQ, but I'm EQing the Sonys (brought 400Hz down a few notches as I felt vocals sounded a bit metallic on stock). The great thing is that all 3 units have good apps with EQ functionality so you can tweak the sound as you like. Personally I feel the Senns and AKGs sound fantastic out of the box.
> 
> It's amazing that AKG is even in this conversation, considering they can be had for much, much cheaper than the Senn (less than half price!) and Sony. I'm sure you could get similar sound quality from a cheapo Chifi TWS but the n400s are the full package. Great build quality on the buds and case, app support, ANC, wireless charging.



I'm interested in the n400's but I'm liking my wf1000xm3 with the Wavelet Android app with the autoEQ and the right eartips. The wf1000xm3 sounds great to me with EQ and the right tips. 

This is what the autoEQ is doing.


----------



## dasadab

bedlamite said:


> I've not tried the Nuarls but I have the MTW2s, Sony WFs and the n400s. The AKGs are more musical than the Sonys and come very close to the Senns. The WFs certainly are no slouch, but vocals are more present on the AKGs. Senn bass can be a bit much (tho the warmer sound signature makes for very pleasant listening) and the AKGs pull it back a bit which gives it a nice clean sound. There is bass punch when needed, it's just not as warm as the MTW2s.
> 
> I'm running the Senns and the AKGs on stock EQ, but I'm EQing the Sonys (brought 400Hz down a few notches as I felt vocals sounded a bit metallic on stock). The great thing is that all 3 units have good apps with EQ functionality so you can tweak the sound as you like. Personally I feel the Senns and AKGs sound fantastic out of the box.
> 
> It's amazing that AKG is even in this conversation, considering they can be had for much, much cheaper than the Senn (less than half price!) and Sony. I'm sure you could get similar sound quality from a cheapo Chifi TWS but the n400s are the full package. Great build quality on the buds and case, app support, ANC, wireless charging.


Thanks far the excellent input.


----------



## voicemaster

Shadowclash10 said:


> Nice save. Do they work just as fine? Can you get a replacement?


The buds work just fine. I don't think I can get replacement.


----------



## LoryWiv

hmscott said:


> Although I wouldn't recommend the KZ S2's to just anyone, or everyone, I'm really enjoying them the more I use them.
> 
> The KZ S2's are persnickety in their BT usage - even stable usage gets "glitches" at times - but if you don't panic you can ride it out and they'll "come back", or require 8 second hold the touch on both to reset and re-bind to my device - required less and less often btw.



They pare fine but I cannot get a stable / static free BT connection...any other techniques help?


----------



## actorlife

Mouseman said:


> Do they have more than a 3 hour battery life?


Well it’s not 6-8hrs as a Tranya claims. They are 4hrs tops with volume at 55-75 percent and that sucks, but for $20 not gonna complain. They do sound great and still recommend them. Rah.


----------



## logiatype

chinmie said:


> i have both the WF and WH XM3, and i think the WF has a much better mic



So finally got the XM3s and I must be doing something egregiously wrong. The mics are so bad and are soundly outdone by the in-line mics on the Jaybird X3 and not even in the same league as the WH XM3. This is after updating them and trying multiple angles. Unless I'm doing something drastically wrong, these won't even make it 24 hours... sigh.


----------



## musiclover2015 (Jul 16, 2020)

Caipirina said:


> How are those Apanage T20? I see they have AptX and they sell currently at 18€ over by the river people


----------



## musiclover2015

d3myz said:


> Here are my overall favs right now. Keep in mind that The only TWS' that I EQ are ones that have apps. L2pro, XM3's and the FIIL.
> 
> 1. Sony WF-1000xm3
> 2. Liberty 2 Pro
> ...



No mention of Phaiser Fusion ones?? Am I the only one finding those so good !!!!! For me, they will sound better than Sony's signature sound all day every day...
Are there any other TWS that get as loud as Phaisers but with wider soundstage???


----------



## Hoplite

So what's the best iem I can get with $200ish? It has been a while since I got into true wireless market


----------



## Tronsmart Official

FYLegend said:


> I get around 6-7 hours of battery life on Sabbat E12 Ultra, and the case seems to last over 24 hours as I can listen to them for about a week.
> 
> The Tronsmart Onyx Neo only lasts about 2.5 to 3 hours for me. They constantly emit a noticeable hiss, especially the left buds which sounds somewhat brighter in the mids and treble. There was another user here who complained about short battery life but found that this was only because one side got a "low battery warning" and you could get another 3 hours with the other bud as the master. Still, I never had this issue with Sabbat E12 Ultra. Also has no battery indicator on the case!
> 
> ...


Hi,
Sorry for the inconvenience. Could you please PM your email address? We will arrange our customer service contact with you. Any product problem, we will solve it. Or you can also contact our customer service: support@tronsmart.com. Tronsmart pays attention to all customers. We also care about the product quality.
Thank you very much.
Best&Regards
Tronsmart


----------



## Tronsmart Official

soldiersixteen said:


> Great! Will wait for couple of reviews and then order it!


Hope you will like it!


----------



## assassin10000

voicemaster said:


> The buds work just fine. I don't think I can get replacement.



I don't know about where you are but I can find buds+ cases on ebay for $50'ish. Or if you want the older buds case around $25+.




Hoplite said:


> So what's the best iem I can get with $200ish? It has been a while since I got into true wireless market



My current shortlist & amazon prices would be:
Akg N400 ($190)
WF-1000XM3 ($180new/110refurb/100used)
Nuarl N6 Pro ($160)
Buds ($150)


I've had the XM3 & buds+. Both are good but differently tuned. Haven't tried the n6 pro or n400 (yet).


----------



## assassin10000

tgx78 said:


> I used to buy 6-8 inexpensive chi-fi TWS every year for last few years.
> 
> Not doing that anymore after getting the AKG N400.
> 
> Heck I like the N400 even more than some of my wired IEMs (Thieaudio L3 or L9).



Copied here, feels like it's relevant. 


I had the Buds+ but found the mids a bit thin and just a little too V-shaped for me. Have you heard both those and the n400?

Considering what I want to try next.


----------



## tgx78

assassin10000 said:


> Copied here, feels like it's relevant.
> 
> 
> I had the Buds+ but found the mids a bit thin and just a little too V-shaped for me. Have you heard both those and the n400?
> ...



Sorry I haven’t heard the Buds+ So can’t help you there, however I found this frequency response comparison between the two.


----------



## webvan

@Caipirina - the SP800N appeared on Amazon Europe out of the blue, have yours been shipped ? I'd cancelled my order, might give it another go...


----------



## FYLegend

Tronsmart Official said:


> Hi,
> Sorry for the inconvenience. Could you please PM your email address? We will arrange our customer service contact with you. Any product problem, we will solve it. Or you can also contact our customer service: support@tronsmart.com. Tronsmart pays attention to all customers. We also care about the product quality.
> Thank you very much.
> Best&Regards
> Tronsmart


I contacted you a few months ago but didn't get around around to sending back the product. After some adjustments I am quite satisfied with them overall. I look forward to your next release.


----------



## Caipirina (Jul 17, 2020)

webvan said:


> @Caipirina - the SP800N appeared on Amazon Europe out of the blue, have yours been shipped ? I'd cancelled my order, might give it another go...


cancelled mine and do not feel like trying again ...

(amazon.de now says 'temporarily out of stock')


----------



## assassin10000

tgx78 said:


> Sorry I haven’t heard the Buds+ So can’t help you there, however I found this frequency response comparison between the two.



Unfortunately graphs don't tell the whole story. 

How close they measure does have me hesitant to pull the trigger on them.


----------



## tgx78

assassin10000 said:


> Unfortunately graphs don't tell the whole story.
> 
> How close they measure does have me hesitant to pull the trigger on them.



Well at least they have totally different drivers in them. 

AKG N400 has 8.2mm diameter driver. 

Buds + has 6mm x 6mm square shaped driver.


----------



## webvan (Jul 17, 2020)

Caipirina said:


> cancelled mine and do not feel like trying again ...
> 
> (amazon.de now says 'temporarily out of stock')


Strange it's still available for order via Amazon FR but yes, I'm not sure it's worth the "hassle"...Even if the wings manage to maintain the seal they're still going to be sticking out by a country mile  I need to check to see if new reviews are available. Hopefully the N400 will make it to Europe at some point.

BTW have you received your MW07 ?


----------



## assassin10000 (Jul 17, 2020)

tgx78 said:


> Well at least they have totally different drivers in them.
> 
> AKG N400 has 8.2mm diameter driver.
> 
> Buds + has 6mm x 6mm square shaped driver.



Yeah. Kinda why I haven't completely dismissed them from contention.

I'm still sorting out my preferred sound signature, after having the Buds+, I think Harman isn't it. That or because the Buds+ was somewhat colder sounding to me. 

I think I prefer some warmth with a lower amount of pinna gain and a modest bass/sub-bass lift. Smaller U/V shape. Also why I haven't tried the MW07+/go, it appears to be even more V shaped.


----------



## FYLegend

So, what's the impressions of N400 with SBC codec? To me this is the big make or break...



assassin10000 said:


> Unfortunately graphs don't tell the whole story.
> 
> How close they measure does have me hesitant to pull the trigger on them.


Would have been helpful if firmware date is noted. Regardless of EQ settings, the bass seems boosted and treble _slightly_ less harsh after the updates in April/May.


----------



## assassin10000

FYLegend said:


> So, what's the impressions of N400 with SBC codec? To me this is the big make or break...
> 
> 
> Would have been helpful if firmware date is noted. Regardless of EQ settings, the bass seems boosted and treble _slightly_ less harsh after the updates in April/May.



Crinacle's Buds+ graph is from mid February. I had them in May/June after the updates.


----------



## soldiersixteen

There's a discount for tronsmart apollo bold on Amazon de (15€ voucher).


----------



## BigAund

£20 off on amazon.co.uk



soldiersixteen said:


> There's a discount for tronsmart apollo bold on Amazon de (15€ voucher).


----------



## Nuke142

fill t1x is only $50 now on amazon. should i get it? looking for good sub $50. now i'am with Alfa& Delta Elite


----------



## webvan

BigAund said:


> £20 off on amazon.co.uk


And 0€ on Amazon FR !

Anyone compared the ANC on these with the Tozo NC9 ? Can't be worse in any case


----------



## Thomas De Brito

webvan said:


> And 0€ on Amazon FR !
> 
> Anyone compared the ANC on these with the Tozo NC9 ? Can't be worse in any case


They might come out with one, let's hope so.


----------



## webvan

You've lost me, the Tronsmart Apollo Bold does have ANC !


----------



## assassin10000

webvan said:


> You've lost me, the Tronsmart Apollo Bold does have ANC !



I think he meant the discount...


----------



## webvan

Ah yes, ok, let's see how that goes  Need to find some reviews in the meantime


----------



## Thomas De Brito

I'm wondering since we are talking about the Tronsmart bold Anc

I've looked into them and according to their FCC number 2AV3Z-APOLLOBOLD. They fall under the Cleer Ally plus 

with the same QCC chip, battery life and similar case  (https://fcc.report/FCC-ID/2AV3Z-APOLLOBOLD/4803745) according to the letter presented 

I'm wondering if the Tronsmart isn't simply a rename of the product for the International Market or did Tronsmart modify something in the sound tuning or add more functions (more mics for ex) (besides the app). The Cleer ally plus websites don't mention anything about how many microphones are inside the earpiece. They surely look the same. 

If someone with more knowledge can look into it, but my hypothesis is that the Apollo Bold is the rebranding of the Cleer Ally Plus

The 233621 Zen ANC is also the same specs


----------



## imabus (Jul 17, 2020)

Hey guys. Hopefully this is not off-topic for this thread. I can't really read the 1.5k posts, most of it goes way over my head! I am looking into wireless IEMs for gym use as well as general use (home, commute, etc)..

I would like something with neutral sound, not bass heavy. I like the sound of my ATH-M40x in that regard. Any recommendations? I was looking into the Cambridge Melomania 1, but if I could find something cheaper, it would be nice.

EDIT: Availability on an EU amazon is also a must!

EDIT2: I am now thinking of the enacfire e60..


----------



## TheLionelHutz (Jul 17, 2020)

TK33 said:


> I would only order from them if you really don't need it anytime soon.  I've had multiple shipments held because "[c]ustomer hasn't pay off related fees".  I have an SF Express package on the way to the US which I ordered from Linsoul on Amazon on 6/23.  It just got on a plane today...for this current package, they marked it shipped two days before they actually shipped it (turned out they were closed for.a holiday so there was no way it could have shipped that day...at least they are honest about it). I will say that Linsoul has been very responsive to emails though.


Where is your package now? I ordered Astrotech S90 Pros from Linsoul on June 12, didn't ship until July 1. As of today, SF Express says my package is through customs and in transit to Salt Lake City.  Suffice to say, I'm on the other side of the country from SLC, so I'm hoping that's just a stop-over and not the final destination, which would mean I have the wrong tracking number entirely.  Fingers crossed.


----------



## Caipirina

webvan said:


> BTW have you received your MW07 ?



yes!


----------



## TheLionelHutz (Jul 17, 2020)

Thomas De Brito said:


> I'm wondering since we are talking about the Tronsmart bold Anc
> 
> I've looked into them and according to their FCC number 2AV3Z-APOLLOBOLD. They fall under the Cleer Ally plus
> 
> ...


It's definitely a rebrand of of the Ally Plus, according to that FCC filing, unless it's fraudulent (not likely).  Couple options: Cleer lost exclusive use of the ODM product, or just lost it outside the US. Perhaps they only had temporary exclusive rights, or they opted not to maintain them. I don't know who the ODM is, so it also could be that Cleer licensed the design to Shenzen Geekbuy outfit as a third party.  This is not a case of a rogue ODM taking Cleer's design/product and selling it to another brand, unless the second page of that letter, purporting to be from Cleer, is fraudulent.  More likely there's something in the licensing agreements that permits this.

Would be interested in a side-by-side comparison, as they could still have different tuning.


----------



## Caipirina

Thomas De Brito said:


> I'm wondering since we are talking about the Tronsmart bold Anc
> 
> I've looked into them and according to their FCC number 2AV3Z-APOLLOBOLD. They fall under the Cleer Ally plus
> 
> ...


How you people find this stuff???  very interesting


----------



## actorlife

Tronsmart Official said:


> Hi,
> Sorry for the inconvenience. Could you please PM your email address? We will arrange our customer service contact with you. Any product problem, we will solve it. Or you can also contact our customer service: support@tronsmart.com. Tronsmart pays attention to all customers. We also care about the product quality.
> Thank you very much.
> Best&Regards
> Tronsmart


Hi when will amazon US carry your product? I see other countries with Amazon have them, but not US.


----------



## TK33

TheLionelHutz said:


> Where is your package now? I ordered Astrotech S90 Pros from Linsoul on June 12, didn't ship until July 1. As of today, SF Express says my package is through customs and in transit to Salt Lake City.  Suffice to say, I'm on the other side of the country from SLC, so I'm hoping that's just a stop-over and not the final destination, which would mean I have the wrong tracking number entirely.  Fingers crossed.



Still stuck in customs in NY (and I live in NY).  Arrived in NY on Saturday so I continue to wait...what fun would it be if you couldn't check for tracking updates every day?

Looks like you are finally at the home stretch! Good luck!


----------



## actorlife (Jul 17, 2020)

Hooray! Scored the Tronsmart Spunky Beats for $24 from fleabay. I hope I can get at least 6hrs from them. Hopefully get them by tues next week. Here is the seller if interested:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/114296085402

Anyone try these? I might bite doubt 10hrs maybe 4-5hr.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/153979908657


----------



## hifi80sman

TheLionelHutz said:


> It's definitely a rebrand of of the Ally Plus, according to that FCC filing, unless it's fraudulent (not likely).  Couple options: Cleer lost exclusive use of the ODM product, or just lost it outside the US. Perhaps they only had temporary exclusive rights, or they opted not to maintain them. I don't know who the ODM is, so it also could be that Cleer licensed the design to Shenzen Geekbuy outfit as a third party.  This is not a case of a rogue ODM taking Cleer's design/product and selling it to another brand, unless the second page of that letter, purporting to be from Cleer, is fraudulent.  More likely there's something in the licensing agreements that permits this.
> 
> Would be interested in a side-by-side comparison, as they could still have different tuning.


I think you're spot on.  Many smaller companies enter into exclusive term agreements and once those expire, the ODM typically will release under their own brand.  No underhanded stuff, just licensing expired.  Sometimes specs will differ, including performance of the final product, as the customer (Cleer in this case) may have selected certain options that are not in the house-branded version.


----------



## webvan

Caipirina said:


> received my MW07 "classic" (no plus, no go) today, and at 99€ I am happy as a clam from the first 15 minutes of listening. Still at XL stock tips and large wing thing, I can only imagine that some tip rolling might improve the experience. Very impressed with detail / clarity / imaging. That sense of 'has this always been in this song'? discoveries.
> Not sure though if I would have ever paid 299$ for this, no matter how pretty they look
> but maybe I should look into the Plus / Go options again (in a year or so )



Good to hear ! Reminds me of when I first used the L2Ps, have you tried them yourself ? Now don't use them for more than 2.5 hours if you don't want to start getting annoyed at the battery reminders as described by others here !


----------



## Caipirina

webvan said:


> Good to hear ! Reminds me of when I first used the L2Ps, have you tried them yourself ? Now don't use them for more than 2.5 hours if you don't want to start getting annoyed at the battery reminders as described by others here !


My L2Ps were victims of corona mail delay and were actually returned to China... got my money back. Don’t feel like bothering again.


----------



## Caipirina

getting ready for a fun Noise-Cancelling-Off competition between those and one new ‘surprise’ contender who shall arrive tomorrow IF the mail gods are in a good mood. Thought about adding the Tozo N9 to the mix, but currently out of stock on amazon.de


----------



## howdy

I "really believe" that I have FINALLY figured out how these Tevis go in your ear and retain a tight fit. I am put them in and turn towards the back of my head until they "stop" which is about 90 degrees from how most would be. I have been testing this for a about 2 weeks and have been getting consistent results. Very happy with these and lately have been my go to, and the 75ts cuz they are still new.


----------



## Bobbetybob (Jul 17, 2020)

So the Edifier X3 can fit CP100 and CP145 tips in the tiny charging case and still charge and still shut the lid, take note other TWS manufacturers!






Quite like the sound with the CP100, bit more bass and brings down the treble just a touch. The CP145 makes things a bit too flat and boosts the treble a bit much for my liking.

Feels a bit weird putting on a pair of tips that cost half of what the actual headphones did but it's good to know there's a cheap TWS that allows for tip rolling.

Another few things of note after using them for a couple of weeks:

The range on these beats every other pair I've tried. With my phone in my living room I can walk 10 feet outside, 30 feet to the end of my garden, take the bin out of the back gate, round the side of the house and come back in through the front door and it never even falters. Every other pair I have start to drop out by the end of the garden.
Battery seems to be in line with their estimates, I only need them on 50% volume at most when in the house and I did my first recharge yesterday after using them a few hours a day for the last few weeks.

All in all I thoroughly recommend these for the price, they've been available for £15 which is a bargain, even now I think they're only £20.


----------



## Dobrescu George

This time I made a video full of jokes, humor, and fun stuffs. Also LOTS of complaining, so please take it as a trigger warning, KZ made a TWS IEM for 35 USD, and it couldn't be futher away from perfect. The good part is that I like the actual signature, and the comfort, but there's so much I dislike about it, it is funny. Feel free to watch the entire video to hunt for the memes and jokes, I promise it is worth it


----------



## VICosPhi

Fiio has their TWS now, wish it had a Beryllium plated DD in it and ANC

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/fii...armature-earbuds-fw1-is-now-available.937641/


----------



## chinmie

Caipirina said:


> getting ready for a fun Noise-Cancelling-Off competition between those and one new ‘surprise’ contender who shall arrive tomorrow IF the mail gods are in a good mood. Thought about adding the Tozo N9 to the mix, but currently out of stock on amazon.de



for you (and others who own the Dyplay ANC), try experiment with this tip mod. this really brings down the boomy-ness of the low midbass, but still retains the skull massaging subbass. this makes the mids and treble to be more balanced with the bass hit. this mod makes the Dyplay jumps up in rating to be one of my most used, and my best pick for watching movies. 



i'm using this flipped inside-out KZ starline tips. shout out to @Slater who came put with this idea. 
usually i use L for normal tips, but with this mod, the tips are slightly become larger in diameter, so here I'm using M sized and it still works perfectly. added bonus: the inside surface is much more stick/grip compared to the regular outside surface. 

the best part is even with this elongated tip length, it can still fit in the case and charge without a problem


----------



## tgx78 (Jul 17, 2020)

AKG N400 and Haylou GT1 plus
Size comparison.

I mainly use TWS in my office where portable AC is on full blast about 30 feet away from me. N400’s ANC is lifesaver here as the GT1+’s passive isolation still lets in tons of noise to come through.

SQ wise I rated the GT1 plus very highly, but the N400 takes everything good about the gt1 plus and take them up few notches.
If I had to give scores I would probably rate the N400: 8.8 and GT1 plus: 7.3 (fill t1x: 7.2 for reference)

First thing jumps out is very accurate imaging of the N400 and how the Bass is oh so well separated from the mids. Tonality is very good and frequency response follows very closely to the Harman Target Curves. I personally find its pinna gain just about perfect.

Nice instrumental separation and they all have very good life like textures and definitions (timbre) to them. Driver is fairly speedy and volume is adequate. Using it on iPhone connection is quite good up to about 15 meters.

Just got this few days ago so haven’t done any battery test, but I don’t usually listen to more than 30-45 mins continuously anyway so should be no problem.

Very happy with a purchase.


----------



## bronco1015

mentioning these in case anyone's interested, i just found them yesterday and don't see any posts about them.
RHA True Connect 2
$149.99.
IP55, 9 hour battery life w 35 hours in case, no wireless charging, SBC only according to what i found, though maybe they have AAC like the original True Connect. @clerkpalmer wasn't it you who discovered the True Connect had AAC?
no app to eq or customize controls.
LG Tone free HBS-FN6.
$149.99
No codec info, UVnano cleaning case, IP4, Wireless charging. 6hr battery life with 12 hours in case.
Tone Free HBS-FN5W: $129.99
no UVnano cleaning, has wireless charging, 6 hrs from iems and 12 hrs in case.
IP4 rating.
Tone free HBS-FN4; $99.99
no Codec info, no UVnano cleaning or wireless charging. 6 hrs from iems and 12 from case. IP4 rating.
LG does have an app with sound presets as well as eq.


----------



## Caipirina (Jul 18, 2020)

and they have landed! My first question would be: “what’s _*hybrid*_ active noise cancelling” ?
Will check ‘em out and come back with impressions soon

edit: how could I test the AptX HD claim? Not sure if any of my sources has that. (some googling later, don't have any ..)


----------



## soldiersixteen

Caipirina said:


> and they have landed! My first question would be: “what’s _*hybrid*_ active noise cancelling” ?
> Will check ‘em out and come back with impressions soon
> 
> edit: how could I test the AptX HD claim? Not sure if any of my sources has that. (some googling later, don't have any ..)


Looking forward to it!


----------



## Samplingentropy

Caipirina said:


> and they have landed! My first question would be: “what’s _*hybrid*_ active noise cancelling” ?
> Will check ‘em out and come back with impressions soon
> 
> edit: how could I test the AptX HD claim? Not sure if any of my sources has that. (some googling later, don't have any ..)



Fast shipping?
Mine are due to arrive on the 7th next month.
Really hope I will enjoy them as I don't have any in-ears at all at the moment.

Looking forward to your thoughts on them.


----------



## webvan

Caipirina said:


> and they have landed! My first question would be: “what’s _*hybrid*_ active noise cancelling” ?
> Will check ‘em out and come back with impressions soon
> 
> edit: how could I test the AptX HD claim? Not sure if any of my sources has that. (some googling later, don't have any ..)



"Hybrid" could mean they're using mics both outside and inside mics for Feedforward/Feedback ANC, the MW07plus only have Feedforward for instance...but then the Tozo NC9 claim both and offer poor ANC so...


----------



## Caipirina

Samplingentropy said:


> Fast shipping?
> Mine are due to arrive on the 7th next month.
> Really hope I will enjoy them as I don't have any in-ears at all at the moment.
> 
> Looking forward to your thoughts on them.


You ordered from AliExpress?


----------



## Darkestred

bronco1015 said:


> mentioning these in case anyone's interested, i just found them yesterday and don't see any posts about them.
> RHA True Connect 2
> $149.99.
> IP55, 9 hour battery life w 35 hours in case, no wireless charging, SBC only according to what i found, though maybe they have AAC like the original True Connect. @clerkpalmer wasn't it you who discovered the True Connect had AAC?
> ...



I really liked RHA's first offering.  It reminded me of a refined LP2 buuuuut their bluetooth connectivity was horrible.  Hope they fixed that issue on the 2.


----------



## Caipirina (Jul 18, 2020)

Here some first random impressions about the *Tronsmart Apollo Bold*, I know some are eager to pull the trigger on those, especially with that coupon on several amazons. Disclaimer: Tronsmart sent me these for review. I promise I won’t tell you those are awesome (when they are not) or try to sell you flaws as new features with a southern drawl  What I will do though: I will be patient with these buds and give them an extra fair chance (like I did with my Sony XM3, those needed lots of tip rolling & time to fall in love with)

TL;DR: yeah, go ahead and place that order, especially if it’s amazon and you can return if you really dislike them. Sound is subjective and my ears are old.
But overall I am liking these quite some!

For those who have not followed the topic, these are pretty much the Cleer Ally Plus (in a cheaper looking, round, window less plastic case), according to FCC they are electronically identical, now, does that mean they are sonically the same? Only someone with both sets will be able to answer this 

*ANC*: Yes, it’s there! And pretty effective. And maybe even better once I found the perfect tips. I tried a few and right now I have SpinFits CP155 on (with the wider bore, as the Apollos have oval-ish nozzles which can be tricky to find ideal tips for).

I have tested with fans around the house and the ANC reminds me of what I heard with the Sonys when I tried them first. It cycles through ambient-ambient off, ANC on just like the Sonys (triple click on either bud). As of now it is not as impressive as the APP nor Sony (but might be getting there) but it’s better than the Dyplay BCQ35 and (from memory) those Bonolo I got a long while ago.

*UI*: I really like the way they mapped the functionality, pretty much by what I need most / more often: Volume first! Tap right one - vol up, left vol down. Tapping twice, play pause. triple tap: cycling through anc / ambient / off. To skip ahead / back a track, tap right / left for 2 seconds to go fwd / rewind. Not too finicky, adjusting the buds does not immediately pause music.

Hey, that ‘take out of ear and music pauses’ actually works 

Now, *sound* is something I rather let the better ear equipped people talk in depth about. *My brass ears are very happy with what they get to hear so far*, but for one I will need some more time with them to just go through many different genres (right now I am listening to some ambient pling pling music) and I want to give them a chance to open up a bit (or burn in or whatever). Top of my head I want to say I am like 80-83% as impressed as a was with the xm3, but this must surely be 'new toy' effect and I should not jump to conclusions.

Things I am not 100% happy (just yet):
*Fit*! While not terrible (by a long shot), I doubt I will take those out on a run. They do stick out a bit (less weight than the xm3 IMHO and far less out compared to Bose SSF)

They seem a bit loose, there are no wings, but maybe I find super grippy ear tips some day. I would also not mind finding some tips that give me 1 or 2 extra mm to jam those deeper into my earholes. But this is still matter of research.

Now, one ‘out of competition’ thing, something that nearly ruined my afternoon: While trying to use them on different sources (like my AptX Tempotec) I managed to screw them up somehow in the connection department. Most likely they disconnected from each other. Lo and behold, the short manual written in precise English has not one but 2 suggestions on how to fix this.

There is a ‘tap each 5 times respectively’ method (after you made sure they are disconnected, how would I do that?) …

and there is a 5 second hold-tap for reset.

Unfortunately both methods seem to be super finicky and it is not super clear what is going on. For most of the time I never got the white / red blinking light the manual spoke about … long story short, by sheer number of trials and some added magic, they are now connected to my phone again and work well. But this experience has traumatized me, I won't try to connect to anything else for a while until I find out a reliable way to get into ‘pairing mode' (and if 'looking for device' means pairing to source or pairing to other bud)

Now I am very curious what the sound people will say.

update: testing now with ‘clone’ Powerbeats Pro tips, biggest size. And much improved in ANC and ‘more’ bass, not sure yet if that’s also better ...


----------



## Caipirina

webvan said:


> "Hybrid" could mean they're using mics both outside and inside mics for Feedforward/Feedback ANC, the MW07plus only have Feedforward for instance...but then the Tozo NC9 claim both and offer poor ANC so...


on the box it says '2 patented noise cancelling technologies' ... guess that's it


----------



## actorlife

Ok gonna send back the Tranya T2 to Amazon and get another pair. Someone said they are getting 6hrs. Gonna give it another chance. Looking forward to the Spunky beats next week. Rah.


----------



## Caipirina

and a bit of a curve ball ... between getting the wonderful MW07 and the surprise Apollo Bold ... I also received the Mpow M30 ... and despite all the raving reviews, I seem to not be able to warm up to them ... what am I doing wrong? One thing is that it drives me nuts to change those wings ... and that even with 'biggest' size, those wings are not doing anything for me ...  Sound 'feels' just ok ... 

What am I missing?


----------



## actorlife

Looks like the Tranya T3 are on sale:
Through July 19th, hop on over to Amazon where they are offering these Tranya Upgraded Bluetooth Wireless Earbuds w/ Charging Casefor just $19.99 shipped when you use promo code 6FCJETBA at checkout.


----------



## eiraku (Jul 18, 2020)

Caipirina said:


> and they have landed! My first question would be: “what’s _*hybrid*_ active noise cancelling” ?
> Will check ‘em out and come back with impressions soon
> 
> edit: how could I test the AptX HD claim? Not sure if any of my sources has that. (some googling later, don't have any ..)



The 'Pollos have AptX HD? Now I GOTTA test a pair 'coz my OP6 actually has AptX HD support baked in (as does most subsequent OnePlus phones, FYI). Also, with the SD 845 I can probably get TWS+ to work (as it does with the Creatives).

Lack of wireless charging is still kinda a bummer (yep the L2Ps have spoilt me), but the ANC sounds nice to have. I wonder if it has Transparency/Ambient mode too.

That supposed EQ in the app is nice to have tho, and is making my fingers itchy.

Send 'em quick to your distributors over here in MY Tronsmart (and make sure they don't overprice 'em lol).

Scratch that, they're already being marked for pre-orders over here (at slightly lower than L2P prices no less). Will wait for more impressions first if that's the case.


----------



## VICosPhi

eiraku said:


> The 'Pollos have AptX HD? Now I GOTTA test a pair 'coz my OP6 actually has AptX HD support baked in (as does most subsequent OnePlus phones, FYI). Also, with the SD 845 I can probably get TWS+ to work (as it does with the Creatives).
> 
> Lack of wireless charging is still kinda a bummer (yep the L2Ps have spoilt me), but the ANC sounds nice to have. I wonder if it has Transparency/Ambient mode too.
> 
> ...


Yeah Apollos have ambient mode but not sure of sidetone. App will be out in September


----------



## eiraku (Jul 18, 2020)

VICosPhi said:


> Yeah Apollos have ambient mode but not sure of sidetone. App will be out in September



Oh crap. So now other than the lack of wireless charging, it's pretty much a subtle upgrade on the L2Ps at a better price (at least specwise).

Now I just gotta have someone tell me they sound better (or at least comparable) to the Liberties... 🤣

Also, Tronsmart, if you're listening, an Special Edition or Pro version with Qi charging (or even an additional silicone cover with a built-in Qi receiver pad) would be a great additional reason for me to pull the trigger lol.


----------



## mikp

eiraku said:


> The 'Pollos have AptX HD? Now I GOTTA test a pair 'coz my OP6 actually has AptX HD support baked in (as does most subsequent OnePlus phones, FYI). Also, with the SD 845 I can probably get TWS+ to work (as it does with the Creatives).
> 
> Lack of wireless charging is still kinda a bummer (yep the L2Ps have spoilt me), but the ANC sounds nice to have. I wonder if it has Transparency/Ambient mode too.
> 
> ...



No apt-x hd according to the specs. They first mentioned it, then dropped it from marketing.  Or they  use the term hd about apt-x as many sellers on ali does.


----------



## eiraku (Jul 18, 2020)

mikp said:


> No apt-x hd according to the specs. They first mentioned it, then dropped it from marketing.  Or they  use the term hd about apt-x as many sellers on ali does.



Ah, a bit of a bummer then. But that QCC5124 is already a plus point (and the Qualcomm spec sheet does mention AptX HD being part of codecs supported, so it might just be a firmware update away).

Will be watching additional impressions closely anyway.


----------



## mikp

eiraku said:


> Ah, a bit of a bummer then. But that QCC5124 is already a plus point.
> 
> Will be watching additional impressions closely anyway.



Yes, still looking if someone makes a apt-x hd. But just got the mtw2 and really like them after trying some tips. I find the large stock tips a little shallow. The best tws ive heard so far.


----------



## tgx78 (Jul 18, 2020)

AKG’s in-app EQ is really good.

Followed this Korean reviewer’s EQ compensated for Harman Target Curves and N400 sounds really stunning now. By far the best TWS I’ve ever heard. 






Sounds so smooth and detailed that I now wish it had little more volume. 

Tonality wise it’s ideal for my taste. 
It took off little bit of female vocal edginess from the original tuning.


----------



## Caipirina

eiraku said:


> I wonder if it has Transparency/Ambient mode too.



It has! 



eiraku said:


> That supposed EQ in the app is nice to have tho, and is making my fingers itchy.



Wait what? There is an app???  I know I looked over the whole box, but did not see any indication ... even tried the QR code, but that only leads to tronsmart.com

If it REALLY has aptx HD, let's see, I have no way of testing it. Maybe someone else will ... There was some doubt as apparently that part of the description was dropped from later marketing material


----------



## mikp

Caipirina said:


> It has!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


If you have windows you can try bluetooth tweaker. When connected the program wll tell what is supported.


----------



## Caipirina (Jul 18, 2020)

mikp said:


> If you have windows you can try bluetooth tweaker. When connected the program wll tell what is supported.



No windows here 

As for the app, someone before me said it would come in September ... but this way I found that Tronsmart has an app for the Spunky Beats ... it says 'only app supported version' ... but since I had reordered a pair not too long ago ... need to check now if my Spunky Beats have app support 

Edit: Nope, mine are only the 'newest version', the APP version seems to be even newer and cost 34.99$ ... which I find a tad ridiculous ... but . ah well ...


----------



## Samplingentropy

Caipirina said:


> You ordered from AliExpress?


Mine are also a test sample given by tronsmart, they offered me a try and I was more than happy to get a pair.
My first Tws's since I had to send back the spunky beats I ordered before even picking them up from the postoffice due to stupid reasons.


----------



## webvan

Caipirina said:


> It has!



But does it have sidetone ? I found out with the Tozo NC9 that it's hard to have a "conversation" with a cashier for instance without that.


----------



## clerkpalmer

bronco1015 said:


> mentioning these in case anyone's interested, i just found them yesterday and don't see any posts about them.
> RHA True Connect 2
> $149.99.
> IP55, 9 hour battery life w 35 hours in case, no wireless charging, SBC only according to what i found, though maybe they have AAC like the original True Connect. @clerkpalmer wasn't it you who discovered the True Connect had AAC?
> ...



Good memory. Yes. True connect ran AAC despite the fact that RHAs marketing team was unaware.


----------



## Thomas De Brito

Samplingentropy said:


> Mine are also a test sample given by tronsmart, they offered me a try and I was more than happy to get a pair.
> My first Tws's since I had to send back the spunky beats I ordered before even picking them up from the postoffice due to stupid reasons.


How did you get a sample, do you need to have a blog or a youtube channel to get one.


----------



## clerkpalmer

Took a flyer on the mpow m30. 30 bucks on amazon. Looking for something to beat on biking. The AKG is too nice for that and the sq tends to get drowned by the wind. Scarbir loves them. Anyone else have these? Was debating between that and the T1X for 50 bucks but for my use case it didn't seem necessary.


----------



## mikp

hey tronsmart, I will make a good judgment on your apollo.

sorry, im not gamesky, but have tws experiencefor some years


----------



## Thomas De Brito

mikp said:


> hey tronsmart, I will make a good judgment on your apollo.
> 
> sorry, im not gamesky, but have tws experiencefor some years


That's how it goes ? I mean I do have a lot of tws at home


----------



## Thomas De Brito

Anyways has anyone received the Tranya T10 yet I'm still waiting for my pair; it's on the way but post officer is slow.


----------



## Caipirina

clerkpalmer said:


> Took a flyer on the mpow m30. 30 bucks on amazon. Looking for something to beat on biking. The AKG is too nice for that and the sq tends to get drowned by the wind. Scarbir loves them. Anyone else have these? Was debating between that and the T1X for 50 bucks but for my use case it didn't seem necessary.



As I mentioned earlier ... I also 'took a flyer' and I am not as enthused as Scarbir seems to be ... 
Contemplating sending them back .. maybe it's just the fit (for me) that's not working out ..


----------



## clerkpalmer

Caipirina said:


> As I mentioned earlier ... I also 'took a flyer' and I am not as enthused as Scarbir seems to be ...
> Contemplating sending them back .. maybe it's just the fit (for me) that's not working out ..


Thanks.  Hmm. Makes me want to cancel. Any other recommendations?


----------



## actorlife (Jul 18, 2020)

If you want aptx with 8hr battery. It’s still a great choice. I started using them again and battery is still fantastic. I used them for six hours today and shut them off, but I bet they are still 8hrs. I reviewed(was in my sig why’d they take off the sigs?) these last last yearly  and right up there with my favorites. I’m thinking a backup pair:
Bluetooth Earbuds Wireless Earbuds Bluetooth Earphones Wireless Headphones, OFUSHO Bluetooth 5.0 Deep Bass 152H Playtime IPX7 Waterproof TWS Stereo in-Ear Headphones with Charging Case, CVC8.0 Apt-X https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07VD3M6M3/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_cO4eFbBNTV8VK


----------



## actorlife

Caipirina said:


> No windows here
> 
> As for the app, someone before me said it would come in September ... but this way I found that Tronsmart has an app for the Spunky Beats ... it says 'only app supported version' ... but since I had reordered a pair not too long ago ... need to check now if my Spunky Beats have app support
> 
> Edit: Nope, mine are only the 'newest version', the APP version seems to be even newer and cost 34.99$ ... which I find a tad ridiculous ... but . ah well ...


Dang I thought those apps are free. Spunky beat in my bloody hands soon. Rah.


----------



## Samplingentropy

Thomas De Brito said:


> How did you get a sample, do you need to have a blog or a youtube channel to get one.


 I have this account a Facebook and an Instagram.
Nothing else worth mentioning..
I had some minor trouble on a order a while back, might be why they offered me a sample pair.
I don't know but I am thankful, unemployed at the moment so new toys are not in the budget.
EST delivery on the 7th.
Putting my thoughts on them here a day or so after when I had a good listen to them.


----------



## Caipirina

clerkpalmer said:


> Thanks.  Hmm. Makes me want to cancel. Any other recommendations?


Just check them out. I really think I received them at a wrong time, sandwiched between more spectacular buds. Also your fit might be better. I need to give them done more listening time.


----------



## Caipirina

actorlife said:


> Dang I thought those apps are free. Spunky beat in my bloody hands soon. Rah.


The app is free, just getting the app supported model costs a tad more.


----------



## assassin10000

Bought these silicone wings to try on some earbuds.




But it was like they were made for my modded X12 Pro's.


----------



## Caipirina

webvan said:


> But does it have sidetone ? I found out with the Tozo NC9 that it's hard to have a "conversation" with a cashier for instance without that.


 ... need to go look up 'sidetone'   

I tend to not want to talk to ppl in general, so ambient mode (and phone quality) are things I don't really test out .. 

Still waiting for a music only TWS with NO phone capabilities!


----------



## zerogun

Thomas De Brito said:


> Anyways has anyone received the Tranya T10 yet I'm still waiting for my pair; it's on the way but post officer is slow.



you actually got indication that they shipped? I can't even log in to their website and their customer service is just non-existent. I ordered mine through their site on July 8 and have still not received an update on their status, and have heard zero response from their customer service.


----------



## assassin10000

Caipirina said:


> ... need to go look up 'sidetone'
> 
> I tend to not want to talk to ppl in general, so ambient mode (and phone quality) are things I don't really test out ..
> 
> Still waiting for a music only TWS with NO phone capabilities!



Sidetone = ambient?


----------



## Thomas De Brito (Jul 19, 2020)

zerogun said:


> you actually got indication that they shipped? I can't even log in to their website and their customer service is just non-existent. I ordered mine through their site on July 8 and have still not received an update on their status, and have heard zero response from their customer service.


I didn't get any response from them. I contacted them on Friday so maybe I'll get one on Monday. The website works for me and I'm able to login. Have you tried using a different web browser on your end. My problem is that my shipment arrived to my city's local sorting warehouse 9 days ago which means it should have been delivered the next day. The package has been on hold since. I sent a message to the postal service of my country to see where it is. Waiting for an answer. You don't have your shipping number yet. 10 days is long time since the product has been released.


----------



## Thomas De Brito

Samplingentropy said:


> I have this account a Facebook and an Instagram.
> Nothing else worth mentioning..
> I had some minor trouble on a order a while back, might be why they offered me a sample pair.
> I don't know but I am thankful, unemployed at the moment so new toys are not in the budget.
> ...


Ok I understand I think a lot of people are going thru difficult times with the bad economy, and all the job lost. It's nice you they sent you a pair. I was just thinking that they reserved them for a few selected people with youtube channel or a blog. I hope you enjoy them


----------



## webvan

assassin10000 said:


> Sidetone = ambient?



Sort of, sidetone is when you can hear yourself speak and generally comes with ambient but the Tozo has ambient but no sidetone. It's convenient when you have to check out in a shop or during calls. The Amazon Echobuds have a slider for that and at max they're great to interact if necessary.


----------



## Caipirina

assassin10000 said:


> Sidetone = ambient?



The discussion went: 
Q: Does it have Ambient?
A: Yes!
Q: But does it have sidetone ?

hence my confusion ...


----------



## actorlife

actorlife said:


> If you want aptx with 8hr battery. It’s still a great choice. I started using them again and battery is still fantastic. I used them for six hours today and shut them off, but I bet they are still 8hrs. I reviewed(was in my sig why’d they take off the sigs?) these last last yearly  and right up there with my favorites. I’m thinking a backup pair:
> Bluetooth Earbuds Wireless Earbuds Bluetooth Earphones Wireless Headphones, OFUSHO Bluetooth 5.0 Deep Bass 152H Playtime IPX7 Waterproof TWS Stereo in-Ear Headphones with Charging Case, CVC8.0 Apt-X https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07VD3M6M3/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_cO4eFbBNTV8VK


Ok dang I’m on the 8th hr and still rocking. If it goes to 9hrs whoa! Has anyone attempted to replace a battery on a pair TWS with success?


----------



## Shadowclash10

TheLionelHutz said:


> It's definitely a rebrand of of the Ally Plus, according to that FCC filing, unless it's fraudulent (not likely).  Couple options: Cleer lost exclusive use of the ODM product, or just lost it outside the US. Perhaps they only had temporary exclusive rights, or they opted not to maintain them. I don't know who the ODM is, so it also could be that Cleer licensed the design to Shenzen Geekbuy outfit as a third party.  This is not a case of a rogue ODM taking Cleer's design/product and selling it to another brand, unless the second page of that letter, purporting to be from Cleer, is fraudulent.  More likely there's something in the licensing agreements that permits this.
> 
> Would be interested in a side-by-side comparison, as they could still have different tuning.


But the Apollo is $50-100 USD cheaper?!


----------



## Shadowclash10

bronco1015 said:


> mentioning these in case anyone's interested, i just found them yesterday and don't see any posts about them.
> RHA True Connect 2
> $149.99.
> IP55, 9 hour battery life w 35 hours in case, no wireless charging, SBC only according to what i found, though maybe they have AAC like the original True Connect. @clerkpalmer wasn't it you who discovered the True Connect had AAC?
> ...


If I remember correctly, some major non-audiophile review ebsites (I think what-hifi?) did some basic review of them, and hated the SQ - said they were like Apple Airpods .


----------



## actorlife

actorlife said:


> Ok dang I’m on the 8th hr and still rocking. If it goes to 9hrs whoa! Has anyone attempted to replace a battery on a pair TWS with success?


I got 8hr and 50 min!!!


----------



## Shadowclash10

actorlife said:


> Ok dang I’m on the 8th hr and still rocking. If it goes to 9hrs whoa! Has anyone attempted to replace a battery on a pair TWS with success?


Well, if I remember correctly, both the Samsung Galaxy Buds + and the Sony WF-1000xm3 have somewhat easily replacable batteries. IMO the more popular and expensive the TWS is, the easier finding a chance of battery replacement is - chi-fi battery replacement is prob harder. OFC, I think the majority of mainstream TWS batteries anyways aren't really easily replacable.


----------



## Shadowclash10

Caipirina said:


> ... need to go look up 'sidetone'
> 
> I tend to not want to talk to ppl in general, so ambient mode (and phone quality) are things I don't really test out ..
> 
> Still waiting for a music only TWS with NO phone capabilities!


So you mean liek a built in MP3 player?


----------



## Shadowclash10

assassin10000 said:


> Sidetone = ambient?


I THINK that sidetone and ambient are similar, but not exactly the same. Sidetone is being able to hear your voice generally over video/phone calls - pretty prevalent in headsets as well. Ambient is thanks to the TWS mics, you can hear mostly everything around you AND your music - so  like when you are exercising you might want ambient enabled.


----------



## actorlife (Jul 19, 2020)

Shadowclash10 said:


> Well, if I remember correctly, both the Samsung Galaxy Buds + and the Sony WF-1000xm3 have somewhat easily replacable batteries. IMO the more popular and expensive the TWS is, the easier finding a chance of battery replacement is - chi-fi battery replacement is prob harder. OFC, I think the majority of mainstream TWS batteries anyways aren't really easily replacable.


Don’t tell that to our favorite mod Slater. You will work him up.  Hopefully a thread will pop up and we can get a battery replacement for the Anbes 359 and the clones. Doesn’t seem like Anbes is gonna release any new TWS.


----------



## Shadowclash10

actorlife said:


> Don’t tell that to our favorite mod Slater. You will work him up.  Hopefully a thread will pop up and we can get a battery replacement for the Anbes 359 and the clones. Doesn’t seem like Anbes is release any new TWS.


Whoopsies! 

Seriously though, I think it would be harder to actually figure out HOW to do it for chi-fi ones - teardowns of those aren't nearly as common as more "mainstream ones".


----------



## Shadowclash10

Has anyone done a review of the FiiO JadeAudio EW1? Just wondering, cause its FiiO.


----------



## actorlife

Shadowclash10 said:


> Whoopsies!
> 
> Seriously though, I think it would be harder to actually figure out HOW to do it for chi-fi ones - teardowns of those aren't nearly as common as more "mainstream ones".


Well I gone and did it: 
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/tws-diy-battery-driver-etc-replacement-thread.937806/


----------



## Caipirina

Shadowclash10 said:


> So you mean liek a built in MP3 player?



No, I mean like ... when I order wired IEMs, I often get the choice of cable with / without mic ... I want WITHOUT ... i NEVER want anyone to interfere my music with calling me. 
I want a TWS set that really only plays music and maybe has mics for ANC, but NO call option at all


----------



## TK33

Caipirina said:


> No, I mean like ... when I order wired IEMs, I often get the choice of cable with / without mic ... I want WITHOUT ... i NEVER want anyone to interfere my music with calling me.
> I want a TWS set that really only plays music and maybe has mics for ANC, but NO call option at all



Couldn't you use do not disturb mode or connect via bluetooth for media only and not calls? Not sure if that is only an Android thing since I only have Android phones and no IOS devices but I can disable Call Audio in bluetooth settings (it is a device specific setting).


----------



## chinmie

Caipirina said:


> No, I mean like ... when I order wired IEMs, I often get the choice of cable with / without mic ... I want WITHOUT ... i NEVER want anyone to interfere my music with calling me.
> I want a TWS set that really only plays music and maybe has mics for ANC, but NO call option at all






easily do-able on android, with any TWS


----------



## actorlife (Jul 19, 2020)

Caipirina said:


> No, I mean like ... when I order wired IEMs, I often get the choice of cable with / without mic ... I want WITHOUT ... i NEVER want anyone to interfere my music with calling me.
> I want a TWS set that really only plays music and maybe has mics for ANC, but NO call option at all


Exactly. Mine are for music and YouTube. I’ve used them for very important job stuff and rarely on phone calls. Text is 👌


----------



## FYLegend

Shadowclash10 said:


> I THINK that sidetone and ambient are similar, but not exactly the same. Sidetone is being able to hear your voice generally over video/phone calls - pretty prevalent in headsets as well. Ambient is thanks to the TWS mics, you can hear mostly everything around you AND your music - so  like when you are exercising you might want ambient enabled.


It's mostly to do with how well the mics pick up your voice internally. Most TWS don't usually do a good job with sidetone unless they have internal mics or some way to feed back your voice. Jabra 65t, Jabees Firefly Pro my voice sounds quite congested. The Aufo M1 sounds more airy for my voice but I think this is in part because it has a LOT of hiss in ambient mode. Galaxy Buds+ is only able to have side tone when using extra high mode and during calls if you have it enabled. I wish you could use it with all modes because extra high is too sensitive for some situations.


----------



## bronco1015

Shadowclash10 said:


> If I remember correctly, some major non-audiophile review ebsites (I think what-hifi?) did some basic review of them, and hated the SQ - said they were like Apple Airpods .


Dang. I thought What HiFi gave every product they reviewed 5 stars. I've never seen an LG headset i had interest in except for the previous UVnano cleaning set they released which i posted about here a few months ago, the HBS-FL7. But i wanted to post about them since i saw them, in case someone was interested or had experience with them.


----------



## actorlife (Jul 19, 2020)

Ok guys Levi(10hr battery)  or Creative gold(14hr battery)? I like bright without sibilance with tight bass and soundstage of course.


----------



## howdy

actorlife said:


> Ok guys Levi(10hr battery)  or Creative gold(14hr battery)? I like bright without sibilance with tight bass and soundstage of course.


Are you talking about the Lypertek Tevis? If so, get those, that rock!


----------



## bronco1015

actorlife said:


> Ok guys Levi(10hr battery)  or Creative gold(14hr battery)? I like bright without sibilance with tight bass and soundstage of course.


I 2nd that. Out of those 2, that's an easy reccomendation to get the  Tevi.


----------



## Tronsmart Official

Caipirina said:


> Here some first random impressions about the *Tronsmart Apollo Bold*, I know some are eager to pull the trigger on those, especially with that coupon on several amazons. Disclaimer: Tronsmart sent me these for review. I promise I won’t tell you those are awesome (when they are not) or try to sell you flaws as new features with a southern drawl  What I will do though: I will be patient with these buds and give them an extra fair chance (like I did with my Sony XM3, those needed lots of tip rolling & time to fall in love with)
> 
> TL;DR: yeah, go ahead and place that order, especially if it’s amazon and you can return if you really dislike them. Sound is subjective and my ears are old.
> But overall I am liking these quite some!
> ...


Hi, bro,
Thanks a lot for your feedback! Sorry for the inconvenience! You can check the operation video here: https://bit.ly/2ZJeZ7N
Please feel free to contact us if you have any other question.
Wish you enjoy more!


----------



## Shadowclash10

actorlife said:


> Ok guys Levi(10hr battery)  or Creative gold(14hr battery)? I like bright without sibilance with tight bass and soundstage of course.


Definitely the *T*evi. IMO if your goal is long battery life, like me, the top four are the Creative Outlier Air (10hr), Creative Outlier Gold (14hr), Lypertek *T*evi (10hr), Galaxy Buds + (12-13 hrs). Lypertek Tevi and Galaxy Buds + are waay better in terms of sound quality.


----------



## actorlife (Jul 19, 2020)

Shadowclash10 said:


> Definitely the *T*evi. IMO if your goal is long battery life, like me, the top four are the Creative Outlier Air (10hr), Creative Outlier Gold (14hr), Lypertek *T*evi (10hr), Galaxy Buds + (12-13 hrs). Lypertek Tevi and Galaxy Buds + are waay better in terms of sound quality.


Thank guys! Dang I’m so close to biting on the Tevi been wanting those since last year.

Anybody try these Anbes 359 lookalike?
2E True Wireless Earbuds Bluetooth 5.0 - Ear Buds Wireless Earphones Waterproof TWS with Portable Charging Case 20H Playtime Stereo Sound Sports Bluetooth Earbuds with Microphone, Raindrops Black https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07RXLH4XV/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_3ZpfFbDYN1SXD


----------



## chinmie

actorlife said:


> Ok guys Levi(10hr battery)  or Creative gold(14hr battery)? I like bright without sibilance with tight bass and soundstage of course.



bright and tight bass is more like Tevi signature


----------



## jasonb

I'll also recommend the Tevi. I now like my EQ'ed wf1000xm3 more, but for $90 the Tevi is awesome. They fixed everything I had a problem with about the original Galaxy Buds that I had prior.


----------



## Luke Skywalker

Shadowclash10 said:


> And umm, @Audeze, I know this may be too much to ask, but can we please keep the price $300 or under.


Oh what a great idea... I love my LCD-2s. I’d def go like $600 for some planar magnetic TWS


----------



## Peddler

I have to agree regarding the Tevi's - they're really quite a remarkable headphone.  I have the Tevi's and the Sony WF's and to be honest, from a pure sound quality perspective, the Tevi's are better.


----------



## tgx78

*Blue*: N6      *Red*: N6P

Just saw the review of the Nuarl N6 and N6 PRO by 0db (korean).
Reviewer rated the N6 PRO highly, saying he was impressed with a treble detail and wide sound-stage.


----------



## Caipirina

Got this info on AptX HD from Tronsmart today regarding the Apollo Bold:

_“About aptX HD, Apollo Bold uses QCC5124, the chip itself supports aptX HD, but need to solve some technical things, currently Apollo Bold supports aptX, but we are working together with Qualcomm about aptX HD. It will support aptX HD when APP comes out.
Please stay tuned.”_

I have been using them all weekend in different scenarios (out on a walk, watching TV on my laptop...) and overall I am quite impressed. 
Only some erratic behavior when switching between devices (maybe the app will fix this) and I found that with the bigger tips I am using they buds sometimes do not touch the charging contacts fully. Even though they fit in the case. Need to either take tips off and keep case open while charging (to be able to monitor the red charging lights on the buds, maybe that’s why the Cleer ally case has a window  ) or put something on top of the buds when closing the case to make sure they are pressed down.

Found also that connection / range is quite amazing. Have not had a single connection bug while listening, and one time I forgot that I did not have my phone in my pocket and roamed all over the house, without music dropping.
Oh, and I got also a response regarding the hybrid ANC, which was pretty much taken verbatim from their press release.

_“Tronsmart Apollo Bold is designed with hybrid (Feedforward & Feedback) noise cancelling technology which can cancel the wide and narrow range noise to achieve the best effect. Unlike the ordinary models which can only cancel noise up to 25-28dB, Tronsmart Apollo Bold can reach up to 35dB noise cancellation.”_


----------



## zerogun (Jul 20, 2020)

Thomas De Brito said:


> I didn't get any response from them. I contacted them on Friday so maybe I'll get one on Monday. The website works for me and I'm able to login. Have you tried using a different web browser on your end. My problem is that my shipment arrived to my city's local sorting warehouse 9 days ago which means it should have been delivered the next day. The package has been on hold since. I sent a message to the postal service of my country to see where it is. Waiting for an answer. You don't have your shipping number yet. 10 days is long time since the product has been released.



No the website didn't work for me. I'm not sure if it has anything to do with the fact that I'm on a Mac?

I just tried using Safari however (was using Chrome previously) and it seemed to work, although the status still says "Awaiting Shipping" I'm getting kind of fed up with the lack of communication from their side. The company is listed as being in Hong Kong, and so it shouldn't take close to 2 weeks since I'm in the same city as their office!  I honestly don't know what is up, and whether I should continue waiting or just go to the resolution centre with Paypal and indicate that I never received the product...


----------



## Thomas De Brito

zerogun said:


> No the website didn't work for me. I'm not sure if it has anything to do with the fact that I'm on a Mac?
> 
> I just tried using Safari however (was using Chrome previously) and it seemed to work, although the status still says "Awaiting Shipping" I'm getting kind of fed up with the lack of communication from their side. The company is listed as being in Hong Kong, and so it shouldn't take close to 2 weeks since I'm in the same city as their office!  I honestly don't know what is up, and whether I should continue waiting or just go to the resolution centre with Paypal and indicate that I never received the product...


They are in the same city has you so you should drop by and see what's up


----------



## Caipirina

TK33 said:


> Couldn't you use do not disturb mode or connect via bluetooth for media only and not calls? Not sure if that is only an Android thing since I only have Android phones and no IOS devices but I can disable Call Audio in bluetooth settings (it is a device specific setting).





chinmie said:


> easily do-able on android, with any TWS



Sure, I can do all these things and mostly do already as I hate it when my phone rings ... but i'd love to see an audio company SO committed to just audio, that they kick out whatever phone components and use whatever space is freed up for extra battery. This could be the next big 'feature' ... distraction less audio enjoyment!


----------



## webvan

Caipirina said:


> Got this info on AptX HD from Tronsmart today regarding the Apollo Bold:
> 
> _“About aptX HD, Apollo Bold uses QCC5124, the chip itself supports aptX HD, but need to solve some technical things, currently Apollo Bold supports aptX, but we are working together with Qualcomm about aptX HD. It will support aptX HD when APP comes out.
> Please stay tuned.”_
> ...



So "_Feedforward & Feedback" _like I'd guessed the other day. There's really nothing "hybrid" about that, it's the way "real" ANC works, the cheaper/weaker solutions like the one used on the MW07+ is FeedForward only but using both is not a guarantee as can be heard with the Tozo NC9.


----------



## Caipirina (Jul 20, 2020)

L2Ps for 99€ or Creative Outlier Gold for 79€ ?

Considering I am greedy and feel like I want one more of the 'classics' in my collection ...  

Which one and why? 

(I know, I know, I could order both and then simply return, as long as I have the power of amazon, but I do feel bad every time I send something back)

Ooooh, while my amazon does not have those AKG N400 yet, they DO have the Panasonic RZ S500 (what  a name) ... at 170€ ... and one quick YT reviews says the ANC is not that great ... pass I guess


----------



## actorlife (Jul 20, 2020)

Dang you guys! Here is my holiday gift to myself. Got a used Kissral to do an operation when battery drains.


----------



## Inear

Leaked video of Bose 700


----------



## GeeD

FYLegend said:


> Upcoming 1More Colorbuds. BA drivers, AptX/AAC. Should also have USB Type-C according to the FCC manual.
> 
> https://global.1more.com/1more-colorbuds-true-wireless-in-ear-headphoness/
> 
> "Say goodbye to bulky eartips" - these look bulky to me.




Just got mine  not bulky in the slightest.  Lovely and rounded and slips into my ears anyway with no sticky outy like the Stylish and ANC at all.  You could sleep very easily with these in.  Even more comfortable than the FiiL T1X and Tevi that were a little more square.  These you forget you have them in after 30 seconds

Not as much bass as the Stylish and ANC (probably obviously given no direct driver) but still more than enough for me.  The bass, mids and vocals sound even more balanced than the Stylish and the detail and clarity for me anyway is nicer.  Highs are a touch more refined than the Stylish, and maybe even the ANC but they only came an hour ago


----------



## webvan

clerkpalmer said:


> So, my Sony 800n are not good for biking.  Too much wind noise which is a bummer but not surprising.  Any recommendations for a cheapish TWS set that can take some sweat but still sound good.  Looking at the new Bowmaker versus the Fiil.  Is the T1X worth double the price of the Sifi II?  Any other recommendations?  Riding on trails so isolation is preferred to letting in ambient sound.



Did you ever try the SP800N again with ANC OFF to get rid of the wind noise ? I'm thinking of giving them a shot so that's going to be a dealbreaker if it's still there with ANC OFF. It should go away like on all other closed IEMs...but then on the MTW2 it doesn't so who knows...


----------



## Caipirina

actorlife said:


> Dang you guys! Here is my holiday gift to myself. Got a used Kissral to do an operation when battery drains.


 WHAT holiday? I thought I was good at making up excuses to buy a new pair of buds  
Great find on those KIssral ... that made me check amazon here, if there's any Kissral / Anbes / SSK leftovers ... love that form factor

But ... that search feature sometimes eludes me ...


----------



## Caipirina

Inear said:


> Leaked video of Bose 700




OMG OMG OMG 

finally a life sign! 

Please take my money NOW! 

(well, I am hoping the ANC is at least at QC20 level, the comfort and house sound is like the SSF) ... 

Please be more towards 199 and not 299 ...


----------



## Spidermanxd

Caipirina said:


> OMG OMG OMG
> 
> finally a life sign!
> 
> ...


There will be 2 versions the 500 is the one without anc and will be 199 or less the 700 with anc 249 and up


----------



## actorlife

Caipirina said:


> WHAT holiday? I thought I was good at making up excuses to buy a new pair of buds
> Great find on those KIssral ... that made me check amazon here, if there's any Kissral / Anbes / SSK leftovers ... love that form factor
> 
> But ... that search feature sometimes eludes me ...


Was gonna say bday, but that’s in Oct. I’ll throw in 4th of July.  I hope the Tevi are in good working condition cause these are both used. Not worried though. The Tevi is the most I ever spent on TWS ever. Zoinks. Oh man now that is a Sexy Kissral!


----------



## FYLegend

GeeD said:


> Just got mine  not bulky in the slightest.  Lovely and rounded and slips into my ears anyway with no sticky outy like the Stylish and ANC at all.  You could sleep very easily with these in.  Even more comfortable than the FiiL T1X and Tevi that were a little more square.  These you forget you have them in after 30 seconds
> 
> Not as much bass as the Stylish and ANC (probably obviously given no direct driver) but still more than enough for me.  The bass, mids and vocals sound even more balanced than the Stylish and the detail and clarity for me anyway is nicer.  Highs are a touch more refined than the Stylish, and maybe even the ANC but they only came an hour ago


Where did you purchase them?


----------



## GeeD (Jul 20, 2020)

FYLegend said:


> Where did you purchase them?


Ali Ex, the 1more shop, and this time around it took less than a week China to UK 

I did forget to say that there is a bit of a bummer just now - these do not have Next/Previous track and no volume control, yet anyway.

And my bad... strike what I said about the Tevi, I had a look to see how much they were these days and seeing them again reminded me they were really comfy too, I sent those back because of the hiss.


----------



## mikp

Caipirina said:


> Got this info on AptX HD from Tronsmart today regarding the Apollo Bold:
> 
> _“About aptX HD, Apollo Bold uses QCC5124, the chip itself supports aptX HD, but need to solve some technical things, currently Apollo Bold supports aptX, but we are working together with Qualcomm about aptX HD. It will support aptX HD when APP comes out.
> Please stay tuned.”_
> ...


checking back then in september. Strange that its always 99.99$ with all vouchers etc at different places. Just checked my "bag" and I have several Tronsmart labelled products.


----------



## helmutcheese

Mine will arrive on Wednesday for £99, pity I did not wait one more day to get £20 off voucher on Amazon UK.

Ideally I would have liked Wings and XL tips like the previous Cleer Audio clones had as I have big ear canals and may need XL tips from a 3rd party and hope they still fit the case to charge.

I watched this video and even though I cannot understand what is being said I can see more than I have before inc reading all details on rear of box etc.


----------



## Mouseman

It would be great if Tronsmart would have a sale on Amazon US....


----------



## Tronsmart Official

Mouseman said:


> It would be great if Tronsmart would have a sale on Amazon US....


 I totally understand. But Amazon US doesn't allow any new shipping now. But we are working on it, it will be OK very soon. You can buy from GKB or AliExpress first.


----------



## Tronsmart Official

Thomas De Brito said:


> I'm wondering since we are talking about the Tronsmart bold Anc
> 
> I've looked into them and according to their FCC number 2AV3Z-APOLLOBOLD. They fall under the Cleer Ally plus
> 
> ...


Hi, Thomas,
Thanks for your feedback. It is quite normal that products have the similar specs, but Tronsmart Apollo Bold has its own patented design and technologies.


----------



## Tronsmart Official

Mouseman said:


> It would be great if Tronsmart would have a sale on Amazon US....





actorlife said:


> Hi when will amazon US carry your product? I see other countries with Amazon have them, but not US.


Hi, 
Right now Amazon US has some shipping problem, but we are solving it. It will be OK after two weeks. You can buy from GKB or AliExpress first.
Thanks.


----------



## Tronsmart Official

FYLegend said:


> Will you list on Amazon.ca?


Hi, sorry it will not be listed on Amazon.ca, but you can buy from GKB or AliExpress.


----------



## AudioNoob

Tronsmart Official said:


> Hi, Thomas,
> Thanks for your feedback. It is quite normal that products have the similar specs, but Tronsmart Apollo Bold has its own patented design and technologies.


Hello Tronsmart. Do you mean that you engineered different software/firmware?(you were mentioning aptxHD earlier for example). Unlike some other forums, head-fi favors specific details. I think he is referring to the fact that your FCC filing says that the products are electrically identical. I'm trying to help clarify some of the confusion so that there isn't a misunderstanding.


----------



## eiraku (Jul 21, 2020)

Caipirina said:


> L2Ps for 99€ or Creative Outlier Gold for 79€ ?
> 
> Considering I am greedy and feel like I want one more of the 'classics' in my collection ...
> 
> ...



Easy, L2Ps. Coz of the App/EQ and how well it responds to it. Thing's a chameleon with it around.

Outlier Gold's "special processing" doesn't actually work for streaming music (supposedly it's for "local" music only) so (at least for me) there was not much incentive to get them over the "Normals".

Also, despite the bass heaviness the L2P walks all over the Outlier "Normals" when it comes to imaging so I don't expect any better out of the Golds in this regard.

And thanks for the 'Polo update. They're sounding more and more interesting TBH. Now I just need a bit more sound impressions before pulling the trigger.

Or, you know, Tronsmart (or Trons MY) can send me a pair to test - despite my limited socmed presence 🤣


----------



## clerkpalmer

webvan said:


> Did you ever try the SP800N again with ANC OFF to get rid of the wind noise ? I'm thinking of giving them a shot so that's going to be a dealbreaker if it's still there with ANC OFF. It should go away like on all other closed IEMs...but then on the MTW2 it doesn't so who knows...


Yes it improves without ANC but I still got too much wind noise for my liking so I returned them. Your results may be different. The noise was only on one side so it may be personal to me.


----------



## clerkpalmer (Jul 21, 2020)

Inear said:


> Leaked video of Bose 700



Oh boy...

I fear the price on these. 249?  Also i wonder if these will have sweatproofing.


----------



## Spidermanxd

clerkpalmer said:


> Oh boy...
> 
> I fear the price on these. 249?  Also i wonder if these will have sweatproofing.


Good luck with 249, it likely 299 or more, you talking about BOSE here, you paying 200 alone for the name


----------



## hifihov

VICosPhi said:


> +1 for Jabra 75t microphone/phone call quality here as I own it and find the call quality very very good. I have heard the Buds+ may even have slightly better microphone quality than 75t though.


Appreciate a bit late in replying, this review https://www.soundguys.com/samsung-galaxy-buds-plus-review-28974/ contains a recording via the Buds+ mic, if that helps to prove the quality.

I’ve bought the Buds+ primarily for work/Zoom/Teams/calls and they’re working fantastically.


----------



## soldiersixteen

hifihov said:


> Appreciate a bit late in replying, this review https://www.soundguys.com/samsung-galaxy-buds-plus-review-28974/ contains a recording via the Buds+ mic, if that helps to prove the quality.
> 
> I’ve bought the Buds+ primarily for work/Zoom/Teams/calls and they’re working fantastically.


Do they connect fine with you laptop? I had a lot of issued with my Sony wf-1000xm3, mic not working or the sound from videos on laptop was stuttering.


----------



## webvan

clerkpalmer said:


> Yes it improves without ANC but I still got too much wind noise for my liking so I returned them. Your results may be different. The noise was only on one side so it may be personal to me.


Thanks, could either be a microphone staying on or just the fact that it catches the wind. I suppose I'll have to give them a try! Currently it's a toss between giving the Apollo and the SP800N a try, anyone been there before? Thanks!


----------



## soullinker20

interested on the Apollo as well but will have to wait for reviews first. currently using sennheiser mtw


----------



## Caipirina

eiraku said:


> Easy, L2Ps. Coz of the App/EQ and how well it responds to it. Thing's a chameleon with it around.
> 
> Outlier Gold's "special processing" doesn't actually work for streaming music (supposedly it's for "local" music only) so (at least for me) there was not much incentive to get them over the "Normals".
> 
> ...


Thanks! I had already jumped on the L2P since it was a limited time deal and when amazon pushes me with a countdown clock, they might have to live with the consequences of me returning them.
I think the Apollo will even get more interesting with the upcoming app! I was just assured that the app will work for all Apollo, not like spunky Beats, in which case you need the app version spunky Beats to play with the app.


----------



## Bobbetybob

The MW07 Go are available for £100 and I'm tempted, I think it was generally agreed that they're a great buy. How are they over SBC from an iPhone?


----------



## webvan (Jul 21, 2020)

Where are the MW07 Go available for £100 ? A new coupon on their website ? Almost as good as the 40% off from a few weeks ago and almost the same as the MW07 for 99€ from a couple of weeks ago with similar SQ, smaller size and 3x the battery life right ?


----------



## Bobbetybob

webvan said:


> Where are the MW07 Go available for £100 ? A new coupon on their website ? Almost as good as the 40% off from a few weeks ago and almost the same as the MW07 for 99€ from a couple of weeks ago with similar SQ, smaller size and 3x the battery life right ?


Currys in the UK, only the blue version available. They have the white/grey but they're £130 (which is still a decent discount)


----------



## eiraku

Caipirina said:


> Thanks! I had already jumped on the L2P since it was a limited time deal and when amazon pushes me with a countdown clock, they might have to live with the consequences of me returning them.
> I think the Apollo will even get more interesting with the upcoming app! I was just assured that the app will work for all Apollo, not like spunky Beats, in which case you need the app version spunky Beats to play with the app.



I am gonna watch this anxiously because it will be legit the comparison I'm looking for in regards to the 'Polos.


----------



## clerkpalmer

webvan said:


> Thanks, could either be a microphone staying on or just the fact that it catches the wind. I suppose I'll have to give them a try! Currently it's a toss between giving the Apollo and the SP800N a try, anyone been there before? Thanks!


The sonys are solid. Sound quality is pretty good. Its a good product. The Apollo looks more interesting however.


----------



## DigDub

Finally got my hands on these.


----------



## webvan

clerkpalmer said:


> The sonys are solid. Sound quality is pretty good. Its a good product. The Apollo looks more interesting however.


Yes and cheaper! Very little feedback so far although they've sent them to quite a few members here for free, possibly not a very good sign...


----------



## Hyperfluxe

So after trying the Sennheiser MTW2 for just under 30 days (and returning them on Amazon), I figured I'd try the MW07 Plus especially since it was 25% off. They arrived within 5 days to Canada via FedEx so I got them 10 days ago but just opened them a couple days ago.

I have just one issue with them - is there a way to bring their ANC level up to par compared to the MTW2? I've tried so many Wingtip + stock or aftermarket tip combos (both Symbios, all four Azla Sednas, Spinfit CP360, JVC SD++, even Monster SuperTips lol) but I can't achieve the ANC I want. 

Apart from that, everything else is perfect and a notable improvement over the MTW2 in every department, especially the sound signature which is what I was looking for improvement specifically for my genres. The aesthetic of the stainless black (0.95 collab) is gorgeous, the battery life and range are ridiculous, the response is perfect with zero connectivity issues, and as I mentioned the sound is exactly what I was looking for with extreme metal and DnB. MTW2 have that more airy sound and larger soundstage of course, that's pretty much all I can say for a quick non-audiophile comparison between the two right now.

I already knew the ANC wasn't the best from reviews but this might actually be a deal breaker and I may have to return them, I'm hoping that I'm doing something exceptionally wrong with my setup/seal. My point of reference includes only the MTW2, GBuds+, JEA65t and the early Bose SS Free. The AKG are tempting to try but I'm tried of returning stuff - I figured if the price ceiling is only $400 CAD for TWS Bluetooth then I might as well go for the best (I realize this is subjective and I've seen Crinacle's material), so if this doesn't work out I'll have to return the MW07 Plus this week and get the MTW2 back for now (or perhaps someone can convince me of a better alternative, price is not an issue assuming the upper cap right now is $400).


----------



## webvan

Unless you have a bad seal, which doesn't seem to be the case, there's nothing you can do to improve the ANC offered by the MW07 Plus. I've mentioned this several times before but "real" ANC used mics both outside (for Feedforward ANC) and inside (for Feedback ANC) and the MW07 Plus only have the Feedforward part so the result will always be weaker than with headphones/TWEs that use both types of ANC, like the Echobuds, APPs, XM3s, MTW2, etc...


----------



## clerkpalmer

Hyperfluxe said:


> So after trying the Sennheiser MTW2 for just under 30 days (and returning them on Amazon), I figured I'd try the MW07 Plus especially since it was 25% off. They arrived within 5 days to Canada via FedEx so I got them 10 days ago but just opened them a couple days ago.
> 
> I have just one issue with them - is there a way to bring their ANC level up to par compared to the MTW2? I've tried so many Wingtip + stock or aftermarket tip combos (both Symbios, all four Azla Sednas, Spinfit CP360, JVC SD++, even Monster SuperTips lol) but I can't achieve the ANC I want.
> 
> ...


Interesting dilemma. The akg have better anc than the mw07 so if that is something that is meaningful it might be worth it. I hear you on the returns though. It's a headache. I sent my sony back to best buy weeks ago and still no credit. Having owned both, it sounds like you are very satisfied with the mw07 so id stay put.


----------



## Hyperfluxe

If there's no way to improve ANC on the MW07+ then I'm afraid it really is a dealbreaker for me, it's a damn shame. It defeats the purpose of TWS Bluetooth IEMs for me since I only use them outdoors when active. It seems that I'm slowly acclimating to them/growing more tolerant to external noise though, but I know in the end I'd prefer close to zero external noise, it's impossible to listen to any Metal because it sounds like a wall of noise. I wonder if this is the reason for the recent 25-40% sales. I saw a thread on /r/mfa the other day about a MW07+ and Bape collaboration - what the heck? 

I do like the MW07+ sound a lot, but they're in no way my daily driver. For now, TWS Bluetooth will always be supplemental for outdoor activity/shear laziness so I can take the loss in sunjective SQ between the MW07+ and MTW2. I will try the AKG first though, but this is the last TWS I'm trying for at least half a year.

I wasn't aware the AKG was on AmazonCA with 30 day returns. Maybe the third time will be the charm. Amazon returns are super fast, you get a full refund as soon as the post office scans the label. Just take care of the product and be mindful that the manufacturer is losing money by refurbishing/restocking it (right?). I almost feel like I'm abusing this system so I don't want to keep doing it, but there's no other way to audition what I'm looking for in my region.


----------



## gdv brisbane

AudioNoob said:


> Hello Tronsmart. Do you mean that you engineered different software/firmware?(you were mentioning aptxHD earlier for example). Unlike some other forums, head-fi favors specific details. I think he is referring to the fact that your FCC filing says that the products are electrically identical. I'm trying to help clarify some of the confusion so that there isn't a misunderstanding.


I love this forum. As soon as I think of a question, someone has already asked it. Looking forward to the Tronsmart response on this one.


----------



## hifihov

soldiersixteen said:


> Do they connect fine with you laptop? I had a lot of issued with my Sony wf-1000xm3, mic not working or the sound from videos on laptop was stuttering.


Hi,

No stuttering or breaking up on a Microsoft go/Windows 10, and YouTube/I-player (downloaded content from BBC/movie.

No stuttering or breaking up on a Mac/Catalina and YouTube.

Older Mac didn’t do so well when using microphone.


----------



## Thomas De Brito

gdv brisbane said:


> I love this forum. As soon as I think of a question, someone has already asked it. Looking forward to the Tronsmart response on this one.


I don't know if they were different it would be filed under a different FCC number. Of course, everyone knows here that a product can show the same specs on paper but sound totally different. One can be a very good sounding product and the next one really bad sounding. I am wondering on which review people should be referring towards. Is it a brand new product or just an OEM of something that exists already. It's cheaper than the Cleer Ally Plus so we should not be complaining. We will have to wait for someone with both pairs to take them one on one.


----------



## GeeD

GeeD said:


> Ali Ex, the 1more shop, and this time around it took less than a week China to UK
> 
> I did forget to say that there is a bit of a bummer just now - these do not have Next/Previous track and no volume control, yet anyway.
> 
> And my bad... strike what I said about the Tevi, I had a look to see how much they were these days and seeing them again reminded me they were really comfy too, I sent those back because of the hiss.



Lots of reviewers, pick your own, but just noticed this out a couple of hours agar...


Nice to hear that volume control and programmable controls coming soon


----------



## AudioNoob (Jul 21, 2020)

Thomas De Brito said:


> I don't know if they were different it would be filed under a different FCC number. Of course, everyone knows here that a product can show the same specs on paper but sound totally different. One can be a very good sounding product and the next one really bad sounding. I am wondering on which review people should be referring towards. Is it a brand new product or just an OEM of something that exists already. It's cheaper than the Cleer Ally Plus so we should not be complaining. We will have to wait for someone with both pairs to take them one on one.


I'll get mine soon-ish, they are at the Shenzhen Swap Bureau at the moment. I don't have access to the Cleer so I can't compare but Tronsmart seems to be:

Actively working with qualcomm for AptxHD
Has App support with EQ and OTA updates, also allowing customization of touch functions
Wearing Detection
Graphene Drivers
Different case
Effectively makes them different earphones, especially for a DSP onboard chip like the qualcomm where the sound signature is totally up to the firmware maker/customizer. The FCC is concerned with radio frequency operations and permits filing approved products under the same name as long as they maintain their RF characteristics. So the two earbuds could share their enclosure, main circuit board and antennas while changing pretty much anything else and still file under the same filing. I just wanted Tronsmart to clarify so that I can put the official distinction in my review put the confusion to rest.


----------



## helmutcheese

Ally and newer Ally Plus do not do Track Skip F/B (deal breaker).


----------



## Mouseman

Tronsmart Official said:


> I totally understand. But Amazon US doesn't allow any new shipping now. But we are working on it, it will be OK very soon. You can buy from GKB or AliExpress first.


I look forward to it, and also to see what you come up with the app in a few months. I think TWS sets with apps really change the game. I'm very interested to see how it sounds and performs.


----------



## Caipirina

gdv brisbane said:


> I love this forum. As soon as I think of a question, someone has already asked it. Looking forward to the Tronsmart response on this one.


I actually asked about these things and somehow I thought I shared the responses ... maybe hidden in my review ...  I asked about the 'sameness with Cleer, based on FCC filing' and AptX HD ... this was the response: 

_"First, Apollo Bold is our own ID. The internal structure and design are different. Plus, we have our own EQ and our own patented technologies;
About aptX HD, Apollo Bold uses QCC5124, the chip itself supports aptX HD, but need to solve some technical things, currently Apollo Bold supports aptX, but we are working together with Qualcomm about aptX HD. It will support aptX HD when APP comes out.
Please stay tuned."_


----------



## Caipirina

webvan said:


> Yes and cheaper! Very little feedback so far although they've sent them to quite a few members here for free, possibly not a very good sign...



I think little feedback is based on the others not haven gotten theirs yet (mine shipped really fast!)  and me not waiting around to share my initial findings   

Still not comfortable talking about the sound, there are times (like now) that I am sitting here and I forgot if I have the Apollo or the xm3 in my ears. I bet ppl with better ears will find some more obvious differences, but for my ears, I am very happy with the sound ... and very much looking fwd to the app!


----------



## Thomas De Brito

Caipirina said:


> I actually asked about these things and somehow I thought I shared the responses ... maybe hidden in my review ...  I asked about the 'sameness with Cleer, based on FCC filing' and AptX HD ... this was the response:
> 
> _"First, Apollo Bold is our own ID. The internal structure and design are different. Plus, we have our own EQ and our own patented technologies;
> About aptX HD, Apollo Bold uses QCC5124, the chip itself supports aptX HD, but need to solve some technical things, currently Apollo Bold supports aptX, but we are working together with Qualcomm about aptX HD. It will support aptX HD when APP comes out.
> Please stay tuned."_


I hope the app will come out quickly, and they won't based the app on their already existed app that has a low score on the android store. if the product can support APTX HD would be nice. I'm waiting for a most in-depth review. Someone might have to revisit the product once they fixed all those technical details


----------



## webvan

Caipirina said:


> I think little feedback is based on the others not haven gotten theirs yet (mine shipped really fast!)  and me not waiting around to share my initial findings
> 
> Still not comfortable talking about the sound, there are times (like now) that I am sitting here and I forgot if I have the Apollo or the xm3 in my ears. I bet ppl with better ears will find some more obvious differences, but for my ears, I am very happy with the sound ... and very much looking fwd to the app!



Well that's rather good news if you can't tell the difference with the XM3 for SQ. How about for ANC, is it as efficient? How is the passive isolation? The fit? Better ambient? Thanks!


----------



## d3myz

Caipirina said:


> How are those Apanage T20? I see they have AptX and they sell currently at 18€ over by the river people


They are absolute bass monsters. Yet the highs in meds aren’t too bad either but they are definitely warm sounding. I kind a love them.


----------



## d3myz

Rapy said:


> What is the battery life that you are getting out of Tevis ?


I would say it’s at least a good eight hours. I bought a new pair of TElvis about a month ago and the new versions are much better.


----------



## Luke Skywalker

Hey guys, so here is a question... I’m trying to figure out if any truly incredible TWS buds will be coming later this year.  (LDAC?) I can’t seem to find any good info googling 

i‘m listening to my N6 Pro’s right now and the music is pretty great.  Superior to the XM3 to my ears.  But no ANC 

I’ve heard some good things about the Senn momentum TW2’s but some negatives too. Low battery life, “just ok...” ANC, etc. 

i‘d happily pay some serious $ to get sound that approaches nice IEM’s like my Lola’s.

thanks!


----------



## Caipirina

d3myz said:


> They are absolute bass monsters. Yet the highs in meds aren’t too bad either but they are definitely warm sounding. I kind a love them.


Thanks, by now they have already landed and while I am kinda happy with the SQ, I seem to be having some connection issues (left bud starts to buzz, then turns off, turns back on again, all good then) and fit is iffy, that winged stem prevents me from jamming them all the way in ... need to look into my bag of tips ...


----------



## Samplingentropy

I read my mail wrong, I have to wait until September for my Apollo's...
Oh the horrors of waiting =[


----------



## Caipirina

webvan said:


> Well that's rather good news if you can't tell the difference with the XM3 for SQ. How about for ANC, is it as efficient? How is the passive isolation? The fit? Better ambient? Thanks!


I thought I had answered some of those. Like with the xm3, the ANC greatly depends on the fit / seal and I think I am getting there. And by now I’d say yes, the ANC is at that level. Definitely not ‘weak sauce’ 
Fit is good, actually kinda better than xm3. Which there was a wing option though. Don’t feel comfortable running with them. 
ambient works, but since it is not a feature of importance to me, I did not A/B much.


----------



## Spidermanxd

Luke Skywalker said:


> Hey guys, so here is a question... I’m trying to figure out if any truly incredible TWS buds will be coming later this year.  (LDAC?) I can’t seem to find any good info googling
> 
> i‘m listening to my N6 Pro’s right now and the music is pretty great.  Superior to the XM3 to my ears.  But no ANC
> 
> ...


Bose and klipsch will come out soon, but no Ldac yet


----------



## clerkpalmer

First bike ride with the mpow 30. Nothing to complain about here. Sound quality is more balanced less muddy than my old T5. A nice fun v shape but not over the top. In short, perfectly fine and a pleasant surprise. Fit is really nice. They are super small and stay put. I agree the wings didn't really do much but it didn't matter. They sit flush so wind noise was almost nonexistent. I paid 29 USD.  Good call Scarbir!


----------



## clerkpalmer

Caipirina said:


> I actually asked about these things and somehow I thought I shared the responses ... maybe hidden in my review ...  I asked about the 'sameness with Cleer, based on FCC filing' and AptX HD ... this was the response:
> 
> _"First, Apollo Bold is our own ID. The internal structure and design are different. Plus, we have our own EQ and our own patented technologies;
> About aptX HD, Apollo Bold uses QCC5124, the chip itself supports aptX HD, but need to solve some technical things, currently Apollo Bold supports aptX, but we are working together with Qualcomm about aptX HD. It will support aptX HD when APP comes out.
> Please stay tuned."_


I just remembered stupid Samsung doesn't support aptxhd. Gotta love a 1400 phone that can't do what a midrange LG phone will do. No apollo bud for me but they got a ton of love from me for being the first to implement a true high quality codec.


----------



## jasonb

clerkpalmer said:


> I just remembered stupid Samsung doesn't support aptxhd. Gotta love a 1400 phone that can't do what a midrange LG phone will do. No apollo bud for me but they got a ton of love from me for being the first to implement a true high quality codec.



Or a $279 pixel 3a. I'm done buying overpriced flagship phones. 3a will do AAC, aptx, aptxhd, ldac up to 990kbps. I see no reason to buy a phone that's over a grand. Seems crazy to me anymore.


----------



## clerkpalmer

jasonb said:


> Or a $279 pixel 3a. I'm done buying overpriced flagship phones. 3a will do AAC, aptx, aptxhd, ldac up to 990kbps. I see no reason to buy a phone that's over a grand. Seems crazy to me anymore.


I want to do the same. Then the next shiny new toy comes out with a trade in making it just cheap enough to pull the trigger. Then exactly one day after the return policy expires I realize its 99 percent the same as my last flagship phone. Good thing for me is the s20 ultra was so expensive its virtually impossible to trade out of it based on what I owe. Maybe ill dump it for a oneplus when I get bored.


----------



## jasonb

clerkpalmer said:


> I want to do the same. Then the next shiny new toy comes out with a trade in making it just cheap enough to pull the trigger. Then exactly one day after the return policy expires I realize its 99 percent the same as my last flagship phone. Good thing for me is the s20 ultra was so expensive its virtually impossible to trade out of it based on what I owe. Maybe ill dump it for a oneplus when I get bored.



Just don't use the 1+ with anything that only uses AAC. My last 2 one plus phones sounded bad with AAC earbuds. 

I replaced a 1+ 7T with a Pixel 3a and I'm perfectly happy with it. It does everything the 7T did, and more.


----------



## VICosPhi

Looks like the Technics TWS release date is delayed again
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0863JBK5Q/


----------



## TK33

jasonb said:


> Or a $279 pixel 3a. I'm done buying overpriced flagship phones. 3a will do AAC, aptx, aptxhd, ldac up to 990kbps. I see no reason to buy a phone that's over a grand. Seems crazy to me anymore.



Where do you see the Pixel 3a for $279? Even refurbs on Amazon look like they are $300.

I got my first non-Samsung phone since the Galaxy S3 and got the V60 (buy one get one free without even a trade in was hard to resist).  Waiting for the 4a for another line, which I understand is expected to be released this year (or rumored to be).  Samsung phone prices are getting out of control and I refuse to pay that much for a phone where they purposely crippled the phone by disabling aptX HD.


----------



## jasonb (Jul 22, 2020)

TK33 said:


> Where do you see the Pixel 3a for $279? Even refurbs on Amazon look like they are $300.
> 
> I got my first non-Samsung phone since the Galaxy S3 and got the V60 (buy one get one free without even a trade in was hard to resist).  Waiting for the 4a for another line, which I understand is expected to be released this year (or rumored to be).  Samsung phone prices are getting out of control and I refuse to pay that much for a phone where they purposely crippled the phone by disabling aptX HD.



Best Buy had the 3a on sale a couple months ago for that price. I jumped on it when I saw it. This is actually my 2nd 3a. I had one last summer, then got the 1+ 7T and sold the 3a.

I may get a 4a, or 4a 5G, or just wait for the 5 and see what that's all about. But I love the 3a and would try the next generation if people say it's as good as the 3a.


----------



## TK33

jasonb said:


> Best Buy had the 3a on sale a couple months ago for that price. I jumped on it when I saw it. This is actually my 2nd 3a. I had one last summer, then got the 1+ 7T and sold the 3a.
> 
> I may get a 4a, or 4a 5G, or just wait for the 5 and see what that's all about. But I love the 3a and would try the next generation if people say it's as good as the 3a.


 Got it. Thanks. That is a great deal.


----------



## Sam L

TK33 said:


> Where do you see the Pixel 3a for $279? Even refurbs on Amazon look like they are $300.
> 
> I got my first non-Samsung phone since the Galaxy S3 and got the V60 (buy one get one free without even a trade in was hard to resist).  Waiting for the 4a for another line, which I understand is expected to be released this year (or rumored to be).  Samsung phone prices are getting out of control and I refuse to pay that much for a phone where they purposely crippled the phone by disabling aptX HD.


I love my v60, a very under-rated phone.


----------



## bedlamite (Jul 22, 2020)

Hyperfluxe said:


> I wonder if this is the reason for the recent 25-40% sales. I saw a thread on /r/mfa the other day about a MW07+ and Bape collaboration - what the heck?


I've been Googling M+D and it seems they've been having big sales every now and then, even before the recent 40% off one. Seems to be a regular business practice for them. 

I won't speak on M+D's collabs but Bape has had no problem whoring out their brand ever since they got bought by I.T. in 2011. Collabs from Coca-Cola to Barbie, lol they don't care.


----------



## gdv brisbane (Jul 22, 2020)

AudioNoob said:


> I'll get mine soon-ish, they are at the Shenzhen Swap Bureau at the moment. I don't have access to the Cleer so I can't compare but Tronsmart seems to be:
> 
> Actively working with qualcomm for AptxHD
> Has App support with EQ and OTA updates, also allowing customization of touch functions
> ...



Looking at the list above, 1 & 2 are still a work in progress. 3. The Cleers seem to have "pause when remove" so not sure that's a difference. 4. is the big one. The Cleers have
"10 mm Neodymium drivers". The Apollos have Graphene drivers but I haven't seen the size mentioned. 5. Doesn't affect sound.

Bottom line is that if they have different drivers then they'll almost certainly sound materially different so I look forward to some A/B comparison reviews. I've been holding out for sub £100 ANC TWS for some time - perhaps these are the ones.


----------



## soullinker20

i am pretty much interested on the sound. still holding off on the sennheiser mtw2. one thing i like on the mtw1 is even when I'm at a busy area there's no interference or like signal cutting off


----------



## bronco1015

clerkpalmer said:


> I just remembered stupid Samsung doesn't support aptxhd. Gotta love a 1400 phone that can't do what a midrange LG phone will do. No apollo bud for me but they got a ton of love from me for being the first to implement a true high quality codec.


What midrange LG are you refering to? The Velvet? That's the only midrange dev available in the states rn. The V series while they don't sell well are not even objectively midrange phones. The V60 for example is basicly an $800 equal to the S20 plus.
It's a shame samsung won't support APTXHD, they have really great hardware. It's the least they could do since you pay a premium for the name.


----------



## Caipirina (Jul 22, 2020)

Caipirina said:


> Anyone know of these? Appears to be a new-ish 1MORE model, earbud style and only available at Gearbest? Can't find any other source online really ... I like that earbud style, but not sure I would want to shell out the 42$ asking price right now ... 20-22$ maybe    (ooooh, just found "34.99$ with the code: GB20201MORE")
> Just odd that this only shows up in one spot (and here in the forums in a gearbest thread, that's how I came across them).. and there is one YT video ...



I asked about those back in February ... ever since then there was only ONE place on AliExpress that sold them, but only for shipping within / to Russia.
Still quite curious about them as I am a sucker for semi-in ears, and now I found them on German amazon with a 10€ off coupon. So, in a few days I will be able to share impressions ...

Still weird that the sale of this particular model seems so restricted. Remember that I even asked the official 1more store on Ali and they flat out said NO, we will never have those ...


----------



## clerkpalmer

bronco1015 said:


> What midrange LG are you refering to? The Velvet? That's the only midrange dev available in the states rn. The V series while they don't sell well are not even objectively midrange phones. The V60 for example is basicly an $800 equal to the S20 plus.
> It's a shame samsung won't support APTXHD, they have really great hardware. It's the least they could do since you pay a premium for the name.


Off topic but pretty sure most modern non Samsung android phones support aptxhd so basically anything that isn't a Samsung. Its bizarre since all they have to do is enable it in the software. The Velvet looks decent but would be a step down from my S20 Ultra. Aside from my aptxhd complaint its the best phone I've ever owned. But even with that, its not worth the money. The lack of aptxhd has caused me to have to pass on a few headphones. Thankfully my newly delivered massdrop panda use LDAC so no issue there.


----------



## logiatype

After being frustrated with TWS mic solutions for the last couple of weeks, I've been using my Jaybird X3s (they were my gym buds before lockdown) for the last 2 days and it's been an eye-opening experience. I went through Gbuds+, Tevi, 75T, and XM3.

1. The dangling mic on the X3 is just great. I didn't realize this until, when on a work-from-home call, the other party noted that I sounded much clearer now (I'd been using the XM3 earlier that day).
2. X3s do multipoint flawlessly. I can pair them to my iPhone and Windows PC. They will switch immediately when I have a call on the PC and go back to the phone no problem. I haven't seen TWS do this yet. Better yet, i can just pause music on my phone (via the in-line remote) and start playing anything on my PC and they'll switch!
3. The cord is definitely annoying (especially with face masks).

Ironically, the X3/Tarah/X4 are the only versions to have the multipoint functionality so the Vista doesn't have it. (I've already ordered an X4 for use in the office because web calls are definitely here to stay).

So for me, it may be too soon for TWS. If my use case for were only for music, any of the pairs (other than the 75T) would be a phenomenal buy as they trounce the X3s in music playback. It's a shame that all the big players have abandoned corded iems


----------



## GeeD

Caipirina said:


> I asked about those back in February ... ever since then there was only ONE place on AliExpress that sold them, but only for shipping within / to Russia.
> Still quite curious about them as I am a sucker for semi-in ears, and now I found them on German amazon with a 10€ off coupon. So, in a few days I will be able to share impressions ...
> 
> Still weird that the sale of this particular model seems so restricted. Remember that I even asked the official 1more store on Ali and they flat out said NO, we will never have those ...



That was 200 pages ago  The new 1More, that are available, are the ESS6001T ColorBud, but these are in ear rather than on-ear as shown here.  I am REALLY enjoying the sound of the ColourBud, even if there is no track or volume control, for now


----------



## Hyperfluxe (Jul 22, 2020)

bronco1015 said:


> What midrange LG are you refering to? The Velvet? That's the only midrange dev available in the states rn. The V series while they don't sell well are not even objectively midrange phones. The V60 for example is basicly an $800 equal to the S20 plus.
> It's a shame samsung won't support APTXHD, they have really great hardware. It's the least they could do since you pay a premium for the name.



I got the V60 at launch in Canada outright. Although it is the weakest flagship on the market, it barely costs $400 USD once you sell the Dual Screen Display Case and HBS-FL7 TWS (sealed BNIB) on eBay. That's unbeatable value for a brand new flagship (not to mention your only other option is the Xperia 1 ii which is 3x the price). The DS is selling easily too, look at recent listings. LG is doing a rather fine job with firmware support, apps and updates for the DS specifically (apparently). I have no idea why people buy the LG Tone Free TWS though, especially for $150 CAD, but that's what my auctions ended at twice now (second V60 was a friend's purchase last week). Keep in mind selling BNIB electronics via auction always means you're losing 10% of its value in the end, but it guarantees a sale. I'm fairly happy with the V60 except one aspect: the 60hz RR. It's too slow for a flagship. 90hz needs to be LG's standard with the V70. Aside from that it performs pretty well once you debloat it and work around LG UX10.0. It just feels like a turtle if used next to a OP8P.


----------



## TK33

Hyperfluxe said:


> I got the V60 at launch in Canada outright. Although it is the weakest flagship on the market, it barely costs $400 USD once you sell the Dual Screen Display Case and HBS-FL7 TWS (sealed BNIB) on eBay. That's unbeatable value for a brand new flagship (not to mention your only other option is the Xperia 1 ii which is 3x the price). The DS is selling easily too, look at recent listings. LG is doing a rather fine job with firmware support, apps and updates for the DS specifically (apparently). I have no idea why people buy the LG Tone Free TWS though, especially for $150 CAD, but that's what my auctions ended at twice now (second V60 was a friend's purchase last week). Keep in mind selling BNIB electronics via auction always means you're losing 10% of its value in the end, but it guarantees a sale. I'm fairly happy with the V60 except one aspect: the 60hz RR. It's too slow for a flagship. 90hz needs to be LG's standard with the V70. Aside from that it performs pretty well once you debloat it and work around LG UX10.0. It just feels like a turtle if used next to a OP8P.



Interesting.  They didnt offer TWS here in the US (T-Mobile).  Instead, I did the buy one get one free and opted to keep the extra phone and dual screen case as a backup so I guess it comes out to the same price. I was actually surprised LG didn't include some sort of wired earbuds since Samsung always seemed to (last Samsung phone I got was my wife's S10), although I never actually use them.

On the topic if aptX HD, I have some Aristo phones from LG on lines that don't get used often like my home phone (landline that I ported in) that doesn't even have aptX (non HD).


----------



## Sam L

Hyperfluxe said:


> I got the V60 at launch in Canada outright. Although it is the weakest flagship on the market, it barely costs $400 USD once you sell the Dual Screen Display Case and HBS-FL7 TWS (sealed BNIB) on eBay. That's unbeatable value for a brand new flagship (not to mention your only other option is the Xperia 1 ii which is 3x the price). The DS is selling easily too, look at recent listings. LG is doing a rather fine job with firmware support, apps and updates for the DS specifically (apparently). I have no idea why people buy the LG Tone Free TWS though, especially for $150 CAD, but that's what my auctions ended at twice now (second V60 was a friend's purchase last week). Keep in mind selling BNIB electronics via auction always means you're losing 10% of its value in the end, but it guarantees a sale. I'm fairly happy with the V60 except one aspect: the 60hz RR. It's too slow for a flagship. 90hz needs to be LG's standard with the V70. Aside from that it performs pretty well once you debloat it and work around LG UX10.0. It just feels like a turtle if used next to a OP8P.


I came to the v60 from the pixel 4xl and oneplus Maclaren edition. I thought the 60hz would be an annoyance but that hasn't been the case. The 60hz screen on the v60 feels faster than my note 10. I suspect the input latency is faster than the typical 60hz screen found on other Android devices.


----------



## jant71 (Jul 22, 2020)

MTI will release NUARL N10 Pro ANC TRULY WIRELESS STEREO EARBUDS, a completely wireless earphone equipped with NUARL brand active noise canceling (ANC) in early September. The price is 24,500 yen(~$229).

Earphones equipped with dual digital feed-forward/feedback ANC based on Qualcomm's ANC technology. It also supports external sound capture, and you can switch between ANC/external sound capture by the dedicated application "N10 CONNECT".

Equipped with a PTT multilayer film moving plate that has TPE and titanium film deposited on the surface of the PEEK diaphragm, and a unique 10mm diameter dynamic full range driver [N10] v3 that uses a double magnet magnetic circuit. It is said to play a powerful sound with sharpness from the high range to the low range. The reproduction frequency band is 20Hz to 20kHz.

By housing the driver in a metal housing and modularizing it, analog tone like a wired earphone is realized. Furthermore, by combining an earphone module and a digital equalizer that makes full use of the DSP incorporated in the SoC, it has been possible to achieve delicate sound quality tuning that has never been achieved.

It adopts the patented technology "HDSS" of TBI in the US, and it is said that the third-generation ETL acoustic module is built into the housing to prevent localization in the head and reproduce the natural sound spread with thickness and stereoscopic effect.

Bluetooth 5.0 compliant. Codec supports aptX, AAC, SBC. The profile supports A2DP, HFP, HSP, AVRCP. Qualcomm "QCC5124" is combined with an antenna that employs a unique directivity control technology to achieve connection stability with less interruption in sound.

You can play/stop/tune forward/back songs, adjust the volume, and answer the phone with the earphone buttons. The dedicated sub button on the back of the earphone can turn ON/OFF the ANC and external sound capture function. You can also talk with the built-in twin microphone.

The dedicated application "N10 CONNECT" supports not only ANC/external sound capture switching, but also function customization such as hearing protection ON/OFF and equalizer settings. It also supports firmware OTA updates and "Find Earbuds" that display when the earphones are disconnected on the map.


----------



## Sylmar

clerkpalmer said:


> Off topic but pretty sure most modern non Samsung android phones support aptxhd so basically anything that isn't a Samsung. Its bizarre since all they have to do is enable it in the software. The Velvet looks decent but would be a step down from my S20 Ultra. Aside from my aptxhd complaint its the best phone I've ever owned. But even with that, its not worth the money. The lack of aptxhd has caused me to have to pass on a few headphones. Thankfully my newly delivered massdrop panda use LDAC so no issue there.


Go to developers option and you should be able to check APTX on your phone. My midrange A6+ phone didn't have it in the settings but going into the developer settings enabled me to use it. 

This is how you enable developer options: https://www.digitaltrends.com/mobile/how-to-get-developer-options-on-android/

Worth a try I guess.


----------



## TK33

Sylmar said:


> Go to developers option and you should be able to check APTX on your phone. My midrange A6+ phone didn't have it in the settings but going into the developer settings enabled me to use it.
> 
> This is how you enable developer options: https://www.digitaltrends.com/mobile/how-to-get-developer-options-on-android/
> 
> Worth a try I guess.



I think the point was that Samsung disabled aptX HD in favor of their proprietary Scalable codec.  AptX HD is different from aptX (I know some TWS sellers like to refer to aptX as "HD" but they are usually referring to "aptX" and not "aptX HD"). If you go into Developer Options, you probably won't see aptX HD listed (I don't have an A6 so I cant confirm on that phone but the S9 and S10 did not have it),


----------



## helmutcheese (Jul 22, 2020)

Had my Apollo Bolds about 2 hours or so now, so far kind of bass heavy and trying to work out the Assistant setting as it is nearly same as the triple press for ANC.

Ear tips/buds far too small and no XL like the Cleer Audio clones have, using my own XL tips and can still fit case and make charging contact but the nozzles are short and do not reach my canals fully, if I can get my double flange SpinFits on they will need come of each time I change them.

Does not seem any way to power them on/off if not in the case, pressing them for long period disconnects and they looks for another device (I hope these can remember more than one device not continually re-pairing each time (not talking multi-point).

Connection/distance is not good, worse than some of my older BT 4.1 sets, definitely not a strong 10m never mind 15m (class 1 or 2?) and this is on both my Android mobile phone (BT 5.0 class 1) and my PC (Intel BT 5.1/WIFI 6 ax)


----------



## TheLionelHutz

jant71 said:


> MTI will release NUARL N10 Pro ANC TRULY WIRELESS STEREO EARBUDS, a completely wireless earphone equipped with NUARL brand active noise canceling (ANC) in early September. The price is 24,500 yen(~$229).
> 
> Earphones equipped with dual digital feed-forward/feedback ANC based on Qualcomm's ANC technology. It also supports external sound capture, and you can switch between ANC/external sound capture by the dedicated application "N10 CONNECT".
> 
> ...


Woohoo!

I mean - dang it! Another one to buy!

QC5124 is interesting. I wonder if they'll be able to add aptXHD via a firmware update through the app?


----------



## TheLionelHutz

Are the Mpow M30 the current recommendation for inexpensive (<$50), decent sound, and high water resistance (IPX7 or better)? My wife wants to listen to podcasts at the pool, and I am concerned about her using her Galaxy Buds for that purpose (I have 3 kids; they splash a lot).


----------



## Luke Skywalker

Spidermanxd said:


> Bose and klipsch will come out soon, but no Ldac yet


Oh nice!  I wonder which will be best


----------



## Luke Skywalker

TheLionelHutz said:


> Woohoo!
> 
> I mean - dang it! Another one to buy!
> 
> QC5124 is interesting. I wonder if they'll be able to add aptXHD via a firmware update through the app?


Oh man thank you. I love the N6 Pros so I’ll bet these as soon as they come out

only thing about the N6 is that I’ve never been able to get the firmware to update


----------



## Uzirox

Now, I'm an owner of the Galaxy Buds+ (due to this topic and forum!) so... little review.

Why I've choosed them: because I think that they're the best "price/features" available. I wanted the "ambient mode" so the choice was reduced, and the rating "B=" on crinacle made me pull the trigger. 

- background:
Samsung Galaxy Buds+, Xiaomi Mi9t phone, default BT settings, Dynamic mode in Galaxy wereable, Wavelet installed, no equalization for the GB+ but bass boost.

Speaking for the music I think they're good, but not a miracle. Bass needs to be pumped up definetly for me, and at highest volume the sound sometimes is "splashy". I listen primarly rock/metal so take it in mind.
They need to be perfectly positioned in the ear: if not, forget completely the lowest frequency.
They're absolutely comfortables and tiny, really light in weight.
The ambient mode is incredible: i use it at maximum (in the labs) and i can listen to music to high volume and still I can ear cars approaching, not for a conversation. Used without music is really like an earing aid  The sound coming from outside is metallic and with a little delay and focused on higher frequencies. Probably it's tuned this way to be more useful in conversations without removing the GB+.
Touch controls: not so good. It's hard to find the perfect spot to tap and sometimes it's just don't take the double tap, I've never tried the triple tap it must be a pain. Perfect the customization of the (two: left and right) long press: I have long press left = Ambient mode on/off, right=Google Assistant. 
Some words on Google Assistant: I can't use it to play a son on Spotify with the phone in my pocket, I don't know why, probably it must be unlocked, but I don't find it useful this way. It reply to normal questions like "what's the time?" and so on. I'm not able to make it read out loud the notifications too.
I think it's all, if I remember another things I will edit.

(sorry for english)


----------



## Caipirina

helmutcheese said:


> Had my Apollo Bolds about 2 hours or so now,  ...
> 
> Connection/distance is not good, worse than some of my older BT 4.1 sets, definitely not a strong 10m never mind 15m (class 1 or 2?) and this is on both my Android mobile phone (BT 5.0 class 1) and my PC (Intel BT 5.1/WIFI 6 ax)


That's strange is I had the exact opposite experience regarding connection. I had cases where I left my phone on a different floor in my house and I walked around freely not noticing I had forgotten it.


----------



## Caipirina

eiraku said:


> Easy, L2Ps. Coz of the App/EQ and how well it responds to it. Thing's a chameleon with it around.
> 
> Outlier Gold's "special processing" doesn't actually work for streaming music (supposedly it's for "local" music only) so (at least for me) there was not much incentive to get them over the "Normals".
> 
> ...



Thanks again! have been playing with them for an hour now and really dig them. Easily the best fit of recent buds (with all those tips and wings they come!) ... large wings and XL tips ... app also fun. Those I will not send back


----------



## actorlife

32$ sale aptx/8hr battery anyone try these?
ENACFIRE E60 Bluetooth V5.0 Wireless Earbuds with Wireless Charging Case, 8H Continuous Playtime, IPX8 Waterproof Bluetooth Earbuds for Sports, Apt-X Deep Bass Wireless Headphones, Built-in Dual Mics https://www.amazon.com/dp/B083NX7DKB/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_Y0hgFbZSX6526


----------



## Bhelpoori

TheLionelHutz said:


> Woohoo!
> 
> I mean - dang it! Another one to buy!
> 
> QC5124 is interesting. I wonder if they'll be able to add aptXHD via a firmware update through the app?


Just be aware that the specs say 7hr no ANC, 5hr ANC with SBC/AAC but only 3.5 with AptX...so not sure whether you actually want the trade off?


----------



## Luke Skywalker

Luke Skywalker said:


> Oh man thank you. I love the N6 Pros so I’ll bet these as soon as they come out
> 
> only thing about the N6 is that I’ve never been able to get the firmware to update


It looks like they're on sale on Amazon for $600.  Waterproof... https://www.amazon.com/NUARL-Waterproof-Earphones-NT110-WH【Japan-Products】【Ships/dp/B07VF146JS/


----------



## jant71 (Jul 22, 2020)

Luke Skywalker said:


> It looks like they're on sale on Amazon for $600.  Waterproof... https://www.amazon.com/NUARL-Waterproof-Earphones-NT110-WH【Japan-Products】【Ships/dp/B07VF146JS/



Um, not quite.  You want N10 Pro. Don't buy the old NT110 esp. for much more than the $140 they go for.


----------



## TheLionelHutz

Bhelpoori said:


> Just be aware that the specs say 7hr no ANC, 5hr ANC with SBC/AAC but only 3.5 with AptX...so not sure whether you actually want the trade off?


Considering how much I love the N6, it's a no-brainer.


----------



## soldiersixteen

helmutcheese said:


> Had my Apollo Bolds about 2 hours or so now, so far kind of bass heavy and trying to work out the Assistant setting as it is nearly same as the triple press for ANC.
> 
> Ear tips/buds far too small and no XL like the Cleer Audio clones have, using my own XL tips and can still fit case and make charging contact but the nozzles are short and do not reach my canals fully, if I can get my double flange SpinFits on they will need come of each time I change them.
> 
> ...


I am actually having connection issues too. Agree with the bass heavy sounds (which I don't mind tbh). 

I wonder how these compare to the fiio fw1


----------



## TheLionelHutz

jant71 said:


> MTI will release NUARL N10 Pro ANC TRULY WIRELESS STEREO EARBUDS, a completely wireless earphone equipped with NUARL brand active noise canceling (ANC) in early September. The price is 24,500 yen(~$229).
> 
> Earphones equipped with dual digital feed-forward/feedback ANC based on Qualcomm's ANC technology. It also supports external sound capture, and you can switch between ANC/external sound capture by the dedicated application "N10 CONNECT".
> 
> ...



Oh man, this will be rough:



> ■ Trade-up service
> 
> We offer trade-up services from NUARL earphones. You can replace your NUARL earphones with the "N10 Pro" for a fee. (Reception at NUARL official website *4)



Source: https://www.atpress.ne.jp/news/219185


----------



## Bhelpoori

TheLionelHutz said:


> Considering how much I love the N6, it's a no-brainer.


and looking at the spec for the driver, it looks to be the N6 one and not the N6 Pro. If it has decent ANC and sounds like the N6 Pro and call quality that is OK, I’d be in too. Cost is 24500 Japan so probably $229....


----------



## TheLionelHutz

Bhelpoori said:


> and looking at the spec for the driver, it looks to be the N6 one and not the N6 Pro. If it has decent ANC and sounds like the N6 Pro and call quality that is OK, I’d be in too. Cost is 24500 Japan so probably $229....


Right -- or at least, it appears to be a 10mm version of the driver in the N6.  But personally, I like the sound of the N6 more than the N6 Pro, so this is win-win-win all around for me, assuming the SQ is there (I have to assume it will be, Nuarl are no slouches).


----------



## jant71

jant71 said:


> Aviot with aptX and aptX Adaptive...
> 
> 
> 
> ...





Bhelpoori said:


> Just be aware that the specs say 7hr no ANC, 5hr ANC with SBC/AAC but only 3.5 with AptX...so not sure whether you actually want the trade off?





TheLionelHutz said:


> Right -- or at least, it appears to be a 10mm version of the driver in the N6.  But personally, I like the sound of the N6 more than the N6 Pro, so this is win-win-win all around for me, assuming the SQ is there (I have to assume it will be, Nuarl are no slouches).



Wasn't there someone who said the Aviot were about as good as Nuarl for SQ? That might solve things if they are also coming this fall with an ANC model. GV gets 11 hours so the battery is good and it has the high magnet strength evaporated Titanium film driver. 11 is a better starting point than 7 for ANC and it already does the higher codec. Interesting the Nuarl is BT5.0 and the Aviot is BT 5.2.


----------



## TheLionelHutz

jant71 said:


> Wasn't there someone who said the Aviot were about as good as Nuarl for SQ? That might solve things if they are also coming this fall with an ANC model. GV gets 11 hours so the battery is good and it has the high magnet strength evaporated Titanium film driver. 11 is a better starting point than 7 for ANC and it already does the higher codec. Interesting the Nuarl is BT5.0 and the Aviot is BT 5.2.


Yes, also have my eye on those Aviots. But Aviot are harder to get in the US so I'm not looking forward to trying (as I sit here on week 6 still waiting for my Astrotec S90 Pros...).


----------



## jant71 (Jul 22, 2020)

TheLionelHutz said:


> Yes, also have my eye on those Aviots. But Aviot are harder to get in the US so I'm not looking forward to trying (as I sit here on week 6 still waiting for my Astrotec S90 Pros...).



I got my JVC that are still not out here in the US from Amazon JP. for $20 cheaper than the $149 will cost here when they drop. $12 shipping and they got here in a few days. Shipped on June 14th and DHL go them to me on the 17th. Amazon Global is your friend 

Aviot and most likely Nuarls latest will be available for easy ordering...




Guess I can't use my points on an Aviot though. Oh well!

Also got an email...



https://www.adv-sound.com/products/model-x?mc_cid=3cd3e9e6fb&mc_eid=e73d1f9bb6

Not the X+ but might be okay for $40?


----------



## Shadowclash10

logiatype said:


> After being frustrated with TWS mic solutions for the last couple of weeks, I've been using my Jaybird X3s (they were my gym buds before lockdown) for the last 2 days and it's been an eye-opening experience. I went through Gbuds+, Tevi, 75T, and XM3.
> 
> 1. The dangling mic on the X3 is just great. I didn't realize this until, when on a work-from-home call, the other party noted that I sounded much clearer now (I'd been using the XM3 earlier that day).
> 2. X3s do multipoint flawlessly. I can pair them to my iPhone and Windows PC. They will switch immediately when I have a call on the PC and go back to the phone no problem. I haven't seen TWS do this yet. Better yet, i can just pause music on my phone (via the in-line remote) and start playing anything on my PC and they'll switch!
> ...


LOL. I think this is the first post I've seen in a while about the actual thread theme, which was are we at the stage where we can comfotably get TWS without sacrificing too much. As of right now, this has just morphed into a TWS review/impressions thread.


----------



## Shadowclash10

actorlife said:


> 32$ sale aptx/8hr battery anyone try these?
> ENACFIRE E60 Bluetooth V5.0 Wireless Earbuds with Wireless Charging Case, 8H Continuous Playtime, IPX8 Waterproof Bluetooth Earbuds for Sports, Apt-X Deep Bass Wireless Headphones, Built-in Dual Mics https://www.amazon.com/dp/B083NX7DKB/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_Y0hgFbZSX6526


Actually, I was just thinking about getting these! Scarbir says that they are quite good:
https://www.scarbir.com/tws/enacfire-e60-tws-review
To sum up, some other competitors in this price point have slightly better sound, but the Enacfire offers better functionality.


----------



## helmutcheese

Apollo Bold Codec Support.


----------



## bronco1015

clerkpalmer said:


> Off topic but pretty sure most modern non Samsung android phones support aptxhd so basically anything that isn't a Samsung. Its bizarre since all they have to do is enable it in the software. The Velvet looks decent but would be a step down from my S20 Ultra. Aside from my aptxhd complaint its the best phone I've ever owned. But even with that, its not worth the money. The lack of aptxhd has caused me to have to pass on a few headphones. Thankfully my newly delivered massdrop panda use LDAC so no issue there.


Your right, most do. Yes Velvet would be a step down from the s20 Ultra, but the V60 is more in line with the Ultra specs and you get more for your money. Let me know what you think of those pandas.


----------



## bronco1015

Hyperfluxe said:


> I got the V60 at launch in Canada outright. Although it is the weakest flagship on the market, it barely costs $400 USD once you sell the Dual Screen Display Case and HBS-FL7 TWS (sealed BNIB) on eBay. That's unbeatable value for a brand new flagship (not to mention your only other option is the Xperia 1 ii which is 3x the price). The DS is selling easily too, look at recent listings. LG is doing a rather fine job with firmware support, apps and updates for the DS specifically (apparently). I have no idea why people buy the LG Tone Free TWS though, especially for $150 CAD, but that's what my auctions ended at twice now (second V60 was a friend's purchase last week). Keep in mind selling BNIB electronics via auction always means you're losing 10% of its value in the end, but it guarantees a sale. I'm fairly happy with the V60 except one aspect: the 60hz RR. It's too slow for a flagship. 90hz needs to be LG's standard with the V70. Aside from that it performs pretty well once you debloat it and work around LG UX10.0. It just feels like a turtle if used next to a OP8P.


 In the states the weakest flagship we have is the Moto Edge plus. 90HZ is cool, but we need better battery tech to support it. If you leave it on all day, the battery drains quick. This year is tough because everyone's paying QC's 5G early adopter tax. So all things considered, i would have done what LG did with the V60.
Back on topic, yeah i love some of LG's ideas with these twe's, but they need better codec support, longer battery life and that would justify the price a lot more. but ANC is kind of a standard especially going forward. So they need that added as well.


----------



## bronco1015

jant71 said:


> MTI will release NUARL N10 Pro ANC TRULY WIRELESS STEREO EARBUDS, a completely wireless earphone equipped with NUARL brand active noise canceling (ANC) in early September. The price is 24,500 yen(~$229).
> 
> Earphones equipped with dual digital feed-forward/feedback ANC based on Qualcomm's ANC technology. It also supports external sound capture, and you can switch between ANC/external sound capture by the dedicated application "N10 CONNECT".
> 
> ...


Can't wait!


----------



## bronco1015

Uzirox said:


> Now, I'm an owner of the Galaxy Buds+ (due to this topic and forum!) so... little review.
> 
> Why I've choosed them: because I think that they're the best "price/features" available. I wanted the "ambient mode" so the choice was reduced, and the rating "B=" on crinacle made me pull the trigger.
> 
> ...


ON Xiaomi phones you have to go into permissions manager and give Spotify access to the OS when the screen is locked. Then will work to queue up a song when phone is in your pocket. learned that with my Mi mix 2S it was annoying.


----------



## asak

New LG TWS with Meridian is available. LG HBS-FN6 There's a version with UV case, without the UV case and a version with wireless charging. Actually liking the DSP, sound clear and spacious. Pretty hit or miss with the reviewers, but there's a review with graph 0db review - LG Tone Free (google translate the review and they explain the dip in the graph)

Also a new HiBy TWS announced that seems feature rich. Dynamic and BA with dual amplifier and crossover handled via DSP, HiBy WH3 It's possible to adjust where the crossover frequency via app.


----------



## d3myz

Caipirina said:


> Thanks, by now they have already landed and while I am kinda happy with the SQ, I seem to be having some connection issues (left bud starts to buzz, then turns off, turns back on again, all good then) and fit is iffy, that winged stem prevents me from jamming them all the way in ... need to look into my bag of tips ...


Sorry, I was thinking of a different TWS. I liked the fit, but it was definitely iffy with some tips and I also had some weird connection issues. I sent mine back.


----------



## d3myz

bronco1015 said:


> Can't wait!


Oh man, i'm excited for this!


----------



## clerkpalmer

d3myz said:


> Oh man, i'm excited for this!


If they beat bose to the punch they will get my money.


----------



## Shadowclash10

Mentally debating whether I should go for some super cheap chi-fi buds, like Tranyas or the enacfire e60 (so about $30-40), known brands like the Creative Outlier Air (about $70), or known brands like the Samsung Galaxy Buds + (~$140)


----------



## Caipirina

Shadowclash10 said:


> Mentally debating whether I should go for some super cheap chi-fi buds, like Tranyas or the enacfire e60 (so about $30-40), known brands like the Creative Outlier Air (about $70), or known brands like the Samsung Galaxy Buds + (~$140)


You already found this forum ... which means you will end up with one of each of them, if not all.


----------



## Shadowclash10

Caipirina said:


> You already found this forum ... which means you will end up with one of each of them, if not all.


I guess so... 

Life of a Head-fier audiophile addicted to TWSs: Galaxy Buds+ are so incredible with great bang-for-your buck, so I should get those. Now I have them. But ya know, those Tranya Rimors are $30!!! Might as well get those, just as a backup... And everyone says the Sifi Bowmaker II is amazing, so. OMG OMG OMG!!! DID YOU SEE THOSE SENNHEISER MOMENTUM TRUE WIRELESS 3 (or maybe MW07 2 ) REVIEWS!!! $140+$30+40+$300=$510 -per 4 months.


----------



## Uzirox

bronco1015 said:


> ON Xiaomi phones you have to go into permissions manager and give Spotify access to the OS when the screen is locked. Then will work to queue up a song when phone is in your pocket. learned that with my Mi mix 2S it was annoying.


Ah cool, thank you.


----------



## bedlamite

Caipirina said:


> You already found this forum ... which means you will end up with one of each of them, if not all.


I've got a bunch of flagships, so I'm trying to cut back. 

Operative word being "trying"

But those Nuarl n10s though!


----------



## Tronsmart Official

helmutcheese said:


> Had my Apollo Bolds about 2 hours or so now, so far kind of bass heavy and trying to work out the Assistant setting as it is nearly same as the triple press for ANC.
> 
> Ear tips/buds far too small and no XL like the Cleer Audio clones have, using my own XL tips and can still fit case and make charging contact but the nozzles are short and do not reach my canals fully, if I can get my double flange SpinFits on they will need come of each time I change them.
> 
> ...


Hi, helmutcheese,
Sorry for the inconvenience. Thanks for your feedback. We will keep improving. About the connection you have mentioned, Apollo Bold is equipped with BT 5.0, it is up to 15m transmission in the open place. If you still find the problem, please send us your email address. Our customer service will contact you. Or you can contact us via: support@tronsmart.com


----------



## helmutcheese (Jul 23, 2020)

Thanks, give me a few more days of testing as now they have been fully charged overnight as I assume out the box they may not be though said 100% they did not last very long.

Do these support pairing with multiple, devices (I do not mean multi-point connection) and remembering each of them or are they simply re-paring each time I swap from phone to PC?

How do I power them on or off outside the case?

Also BT 5.0 does not necessarily give you more distance, it is still set to a minimum requirement of 10m, it will depends on the size of devices antennas and what  tweaks can be done to help them and the voltage to the chip so Bluetooth class 2 or higher Bluetooth Class 1 which can be 15-20m or even higher on larger devices up to 50m easily.

I am not trying to walk far away from devices even in my testing so far but they break up simply moving about a small amount even sometimes quite near the devices, they give no stuttering warning and no voice prompt just disconnected and no voice prompt when they reconnect as you get closer.


----------



## posnera

I'm sure this has been covered already, but what is an inexpensive option which is very small? I would use these for tv watching in bed, lying on a pillow.  They don't need to have stellar sound quality or long battery life.  Comfort while lying on them is the only consideration.


----------



## RemoGaggi

Is it safe to say that the microphone on any decent wired earbud is better than the microphone on any TWS earbud?

I am thinking of getting a pair of KZ ZSM with Mic for work to attend Zoom meetings.  I just want to make sure people will be able to hear me.


----------



## chinmie

posnera said:


> I'm sure this has been covered already, but what is an inexpensive option which is very small? I would use these for tv watching in bed, lying on a pillow.  They don't need to have stellar sound quality or long battery life.  Comfort while lying on them is the only consideration.



i use the sabbat x12 and Nillkin go for lying on a pillow sideways. i also like them because it uses buttons instead of touch, so i can rest my head against my arm with no accidental button presses. 

other inexpensive small tws (with touch control) are tronsmart spunky beats, haylou GT1/Pro/Plus.


----------



## Shadowclash10

So no one has the Tranya T10 yet?


----------



## Thomas De Brito

Shadowclash10 said:


> So no one has the Tranya T10 yet?


Mine is own its way but it seems to be lost.


----------



## Bhelpoori

RemoGaggi said:


> Is it safe to say that the microphone on any decent wired earbud is better than the microphone on any TWS earbud?
> 
> I am thinking of getting a pair of KZ ZSM with Mic for work to attend Zoom meetings.  I just want to make sure people will be able to hear me.


In my opinion only. I think their are 2 main characteristics for Zoom calls: voice clarity and background noise suppression. Most of the wired IEM microphones do a better job on voice clarity but a worse job on noise suppression.
I use both depending on where I am. Home I tend to use wired but outside wireless...


----------



## logiatype

RemoGaggi said:


> Is it safe to say that the microphone on any decent wired earbud is better than the microphone on any TWS earbud?
> 
> I am thinking of getting a pair of KZ ZSM with Mic for work to attend Zoom meetings.  I just want to make sure people will be able to hear me.


Yeah I've made several posts about this. TWS mics are all around awful when compared to anything else IMO. I'd suggest a dongle mic options (like Jaybird) or a wired mic for meetings.


----------



## actorlife

posnera said:


> I'm sure this has been covered already, but what is an inexpensive option which is very small? I would use these for tv watching in bed, lying on a pillow.  They don't need to have stellar sound quality or long battery life.  Comfort while lying on them is the only consideration.


These and there is a used pair for $10 less:
True Wireless Earbuds Bluetooth 5.0, Noise Cancelling Wireless Earbuds 18H Playtime, 3D Stereo Sound Wireless Bluetooth Headphones Volume Control, Built in Mic with Portable Charging Case for Workout https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07LGWFR56/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_-UDgFbC1PD2R8


----------



## Shadowclash10

Thomas De Brito said:


> Mine is own its way but it seems to be lost.


That isn't good... the T10s seem very promising, better batter and sound than the Rimors, aptX as well, etc. OFC Tranya's listed prices are ridicoulously high - and completely the opposite on amazon. EG they list the Rimor for $70, but Amazon puts them as $25-30. Waiting for them to come to Amazon...


----------



## mikp

helmutcheese said:


> Thanks, give me a few more days of testing as now they have been fully charged overnight as I assume out the box they may not be though said 100% they did not last very long.
> 
> Do these support pairing with multiple, devices (I do not mean multi-point connection) and remembering each of them or are they simply re-paring each time I swap from phone to PC?
> 
> ...


 yes, thats an antenna or power problem. Did have some of those tws from ali that I got refunded. Just throw them in the trash since its most likely a hw problem.


----------



## Bobbetybob

Got my MW07 Go today, not quite sure how I feel on them yet. They're comfy and feel like a good solid product but they're too bass heavy for me at the moment, I'll keep listening and do some more tip rolling but I'm glad I didn't pay anywhere near full price.

It's another one of those "hmm is it really worth the extra money" situations; I stuck my Edifier X3 back in because they were to hand and the £80 difference (or £160 if we're talking RRP) just doesn't feel anywhere close to justified at the moment.


----------



## Darkestred

jant71 said:


> I got my JVC that are still not out here in the US from Amazon JP. for $20 cheaper than the $149 will cost here when they drop. $12 shipping and they got here in a few days. Shipped on June 14th and DHL go them to me on the 17th. Amazon Global is your friend
> 
> Aviot and most likely Nuarls latest will be available for easy ordering...
> 
> ...




This is a very frustrating TWS.  ive had nothing but connection issues with it and now i can only get one ear piece to work regardless of how many times i reset them.


----------



## jant71 (Jul 23, 2020)

Darkestred said:


> This is a very frustrating TWS.  ive had nothing but connection issues with it and now i can only get one ear piece to work regardless of how many times i reset them.



Never had an Aviot myself so no experience. Sure it is the "GV" cause that just came out a week ago. The G and GV are totally different BT versions and chipsets.

Checked, also a new antenna. Made me read a review..


HOME > Reviews > List of Review Articles
*Review*
[PR] reviewed by critic Kenji Nomura
*Amazing "super" high cospa! Significantly evolved 10,000 yen cut complete wireless, AVIOT "TE-D01gv" ability check*
Kenji Nomura


 1 2





July 16, 2020



There are many advantages to the QCC3040, but one of the highlights is the breadth of compatible codecs. In addition to SBC and AAC, aptX and even aptX Adaptive are also supported. It has become that you can enjoy a higher sound.




You can check the surrounding sound without removing the earphones one by one by pressing the button of the main body

In addition, the continuous playback time is improved to a maximum of 11 hours, so that it can be continued to use for about 50 hours when the charge from the dedicated case is combined. The case is also equipped with a USB Type-C port and supports a fast-charging function that can be played for up to three hours on a 15-minute charge. In addition, it incorporates a full range of usability, such as waterproof performance of IPX7 and an optional silicon case. Just looking at these features, TE-D01gv seems to be a very attractive product.

However, sound quality is also one of the important points. So, while comparing the sound of the base model "TE-D01g", I tried to audition.

As for the sound quality, the quality is increasing to the extent that it is not an exaggeration to say that it is a product of a completely different class. First of all, the distortion feeling is thoroughly eliminated. Especially with the increased sense of focus in the low range, groove feeling such as bass and drums has come to be transmitted more directly.

On the other hand, the high range is also more pure, and the tone of the brass instrument is gorgeous and beautiful. I feel more momentum in the sound of the violin than usual.

However, what I thought was the most attractive was the overall sound balance. To tell the truth, the original "TE-D01g" also had a goodness that does not choose a relatively music genre (this was good), but it was felt like a result of emphasizing balance without pushing the sound quality adjustment too much to the last.

On the other hand, "TE-D01gv" is finished in a thorough pursuit form of sound that highly balances them while emphasizing the direct feeling of sound, the sharpness of the sharpness of the sharp expression, and the fineness of the detail expression.

Thanks to this, both the cello and the violin play a lively tone, the piano combines the strength and stretch of the touch, and the female vocals delight the singing voice of the neutral emotional expression like an adult. On the other hand, J-pop and EDM, which use a lot of typing, also make you feel a powerful beat, regardless of the music genre, it has realized the depth of the bosom that can be enjoyed widely from classical to J-pop.

 In this way, "TE-D01gv" is a product that makes you feel a steady evolution as if you have shifted the price class from the original model to one or two. At a price of around 9000 yen in actual sales, and the quality improvement up here in a period of about one year is amazing. Fully wireless earphones I would like to greatly welcome the birth of a new landmark."

GV sounds pretty good. Doesn't say what codec he was listening under though.


----------



## FYLegend

Shadowclash10 said:


> That isn't good... the T10s seem very promising, better batter and sound than the Rimors, aptX as well, etc. OFC Tranya's listed prices are ridicoulously high - and completely the opposite on amazon. EG they list the Rimor for $70, but Amazon puts them as $25-30. Waiting for them to come to Amazon...


Some reviewer on YouTube commented they feel cheap and not worth 100$. They didn't say specifically why the sound while good was up to the price.

I'm also not keen on triple tapping just to switch tracks, why not switch it around with volume which is double-tap?


----------



## Darkestred

@jant71 sorry, i meant the adv model x.


----------



## jant71

Darkestred said:


> @jant71 sorry, i meant the adv model x.



Oh yeah I forgot about that part down lower which doesn't show unless you expand the quote. I forgot I even added that. Probably not a good deal on the "X" if it can give issues.


----------



## helmutcheese

FYLegend said:


> Some reviewer on YouTube commented they feel cheap and not worth 100$. They didn't say specifically why the sound while good was up to the price.
> 
> I'm also not keen on triple tapping just to switch tracks, why not switch it around with volume which is double-tap?



Then on Android you would need tap it 30x to go from 0-100% volume (10 steps by default).


----------



## TheLionelHutz

logiatype said:


> Yeah I've made several posts about this. TWS mics are all around awful when compared to anything else IMO. I'd suggest a dongle mic options (like Jaybird) or a wired mic for meetings.


I have great results with SoundCore Life P2 for calls. Excellent mics. Not the best for music, but I almost exclusively use them for calls (phone, VOIP, Zoom).


----------



## Tronsmart Official

helmutcheese said:


> Thanks, give me a few more days of testing as now they have been fully charged overnight as I assume out the box they may not be though said 100% they did not last very long.
> 
> Do these support pairing with multiple, devices (I do not mean multi-point connection) and remembering each of them or are they simply re-paring each time I swap from phone to PC?
> 
> ...


Hi, helmutcheese,
Thanks for your quick reply. Abouot your questions:
1. Apollo Bold remembers the last device. It means if you have used your mobile phone at the first time, then you connect your PC at last, next time when you take the earbuds out, it will connect with PC directly.
2. How do I power them on or off outside the case?   >>The only way to power on or off the earbuds is to put it in the case or take out from the case.
3. Apollo Bold is equipped with BT 5.0 class 2, voltage is 5V, 450mAh, plus it is engineered with customized antenna in the whole round of the earbud. Please check the pic below, the purple circle on the earbud is the antenna.

Hope it helps.
Please let us know if you have any other question.
Thanks.


----------



## Tronsmart Official

mikp said:


> yes, thats an antenna or power problem. Did have some of those tws from ali that I got refunded. Just throw them in the trash since its most likely a hw problem.


Apollo Bold is equipped with customized antenna. It is 5V, 450mAh. Hopeit helps you to understand.


----------



## jasonb

helmutcheese said:


> Then on Android you would need tap it 30x to go from 0-100% volume (10 steps by default).



On my Pixel there are 25 volume steps.


----------



## chinmie

jasonb said:


> On my Pixel there are 25 volume steps.



on samsung devices that has Sound Assistant app, we can change the volume increment to 150 steps


----------



## helmutcheese

AFAIR its 10 by default but can be changed in Dev Options or in PowerAmp.


----------



## Shadowclash10

FYLegend said:


> Some reviewer on YouTube commented they feel cheap and not worth 100$. They didn't say specifically why the sound while good was up to the price.
> 
> I'm also not keen on triple tapping just to switch tracks, why not switch it around with volume which is double-tap?


Yep. The manual here: https://www.tranya.com/tmp/file/2ad25f70d9.pdf confirms that weird control setup...so sad. I was going to wait until this released on Amazon for cheap, like every other Tranya product, but the wacky controls makes this a no-go for me. Might reconsider the Rimor...


----------



## Mouseman

Shadowclash10 said:


> Yep. The manual here: https://www.tranya.com/tmp/file/2ad25f70d9.pdf confirms that weird control setup...so sad. I was going to wait until this released on Amazon for cheap, like every other Tranya product, but the wacky controls makes this a no-go for me. Might reconsider the Rimor...


You can get the T10s for $40 on Tranya's site with the code *JULY50. *Trust me, you _really _don't want the Rimors. They are awful.


----------



## actorlife

Shadowclash10 said:


> Yep. The manual here: https://www.tranya.com/tmp/file/2ad25f70d9.pdf confirms that weird control setup...so sad. I was going to wait until this released on Amazon for cheap, like every other Tranya product, but the wacky controls makes this a no-go for me. Might reconsider the Rimor...


What TWS ya got so far? What is your fav sound sig?


----------



## Sam L

Just got the Fiil CC in. Design-wise, wow. Scarbir mentioned these are the best designed tws out of the 125+ models he has seen come his way and I agree. 

Phenomenal design. Makes you want to keep touching the case and the earphones. Soundwise, very competent SQ but there's a crazy spike around 2k-3k. When I get home I'll have to measure them to dial in on what's going on.


----------



## AudioNoob (Jul 24, 2020)

RemoGaggi said:


> Is it safe to say that the microphone on any decent wired earbud is better than the microphone on any TWS earbud?
> 
> I am thinking of getting a pair of KZ ZSM with Mic for work to attend Zoom meetings.  I just want to make sure people will be able to hear me.


No, most cheap/aliexpress iem mics are actually terrible and will feedback all sounds pushed to earphones back through the mic, I've tested many cables and iems and have only found a few. You have to find some that are made with a good mic. I believe Xiaomi uses knowles mics, Huawei might as well. The apple one is good as well. TWSs don't have to share cables in that manner and have an entirely separate mic circuit and so can do better, but most cheap TWSs have crap mics so... The best mic I had so far was on the earfun air.


----------



## Shadowclash10

Mouseman said:


> You can get the T10s for $40 on Tranya's site with the code *JULY50. *Trust me, you _really _don't want the Rimors. They are awful.


No?  Shame. Is it because of their SQ? Cause their feature set seems perfect to me.


----------



## Sam L

RemoGaggi said:


> Is it safe to say that the microphone on any decent wired earbud is better than the microphone on any TWS earbud?
> 
> I am thinking of getting a pair of KZ ZSM with Mic for work to attend Zoom meetings.  I just want to make sure people will be able to hear me.


In general, yes. I have found that most of the mics on a decent pair of wired iems are way better than the average mic quality on tws sets costing <$90. 

When you get in the +$100 range the mics can be quite good, with the apple air pod pro's at the top.


----------



## Shadowclash10

actorlife said:


> What TWS ya got so far? What is your fav sound sig?


Honestly? Just cycled through some expensive pairs like the WF-100XM3s, MW07, etc. Couldn;t justify the price-to-performance ratio compared to chi-fi, considering that I mainly drive headphones anyway. Also, I hate stem designs . I just hate it when: SQ is flat (not really analytical, but like completely flat), or when the bass overspills into other freqs. Other than that, I just want >5-6 hours of battery life, and USB Type-C (can't handle microUSB anymore  ). So it looks like I can choose between the Enacfire E60s, Tranya Rimors, Bowmaker Sifi II, and the EarFun Free.


----------



## TK33

AudioNoob said:


> No, most iem mics are actually terrible and will feedback all sounds pushed to earphones back through the mic, I've tested many cables and iems and have only found a few. You have to find some that are made with a good mic. I believe Xiaomi uses knowles mics, Huawei might as well. The apple one is good as well. TWSs don't have to share cables in that manner and have an entirely separate mic circuit and so can do better, but most cheap TWSs have crap mics so... The best mic I had so far was on the earfun air.



I use my wired Shure SE425s with an old Shure mic cable for calls (I think it was called the CBL-M-K - still using this instead of the newer one that came with my SE846 since it refuses to fall apart). The mic on my TW earbuds are not great (MTW (original), MW07 Go and JBL Reflect Flow).  The inline mic on the Shure cable sounded great to me based on my own mic tests. I like wired IEMs for calls because I can keep one ear open for calls, which I am usually on for a few hours a day, and I can easily alternate ears.  Someone actually told me the other day that I was the first person he talked to that day who sounded clear (and I didn't even ask if he could hear me well...guess he was sick of muffled calls).  More and more people seem to be using their APPs or other TW these days. I usually take my calls indoors but I sit next to an air conditioner which is pretty loud (or my wife or son are sometimes watching TV in the background) and no one has ever complained.  

The Buds+ seems to get great reviews but haven't pulled the trigger on that one since I switched from Samsung to an LG V60.  Hopefully TWS can get there soon.


----------



## AudioNoob

TK33 said:


> I use my wired Shure SE425s with an old Shure mic cable for calls (I think it was called the CBL-M-K - still using this instead of the newer one that came with my SE846 since it refuses to fall apart). The mic on my TW earbuds are not great (MTW (original), MW07 Go and JBL Reflect Flow).  The inline mic on the Shure cable sounded great to me based on my own mic tests. I like wired IEMs for calls because I can keep one ear open for calls, which I am usually on for a few hours a day, and I can easily alternate ears.  Someone actually told me the other day that I was the first person he talked to that day who sounded clear (and I didn't even ask if he could hear me well...guess he was sick of muffled calls).  More and more people seem to be using their APPs or other TW these days. I usually take my calls indoors but I sit next to an air conditioner which is pretty loud (or my wife or son are sometimes watching TV in the background) and no one has ever complained.
> 
> The Buds+ seems to get great reviews but haven't pulled the trigger on that one since I switched from Samsung to an LG V60.  Hopefully TWS can get there soon.


Shure will use a decent mic, the person had mentioned KZs so I was replying at that aliexpress level. If you have a decent mic, cable will sound pretty good.


----------



## d3myz

Shadowclash10 said:


> Yep. The manual here: https://www.tranya.com/tmp/file/2ad25f70d9.pdf confirms that weird control setup...so sad. I was going to wait until this released on Amazon for cheap, like every other Tranya product, but the wacky controls makes this a no-go for me. Might reconsider the Rimor...





Mouseman said:


> *JULY50*


I second @Mouseman. I've had the first and second versions of the Rimors and they are the worst Tranya product IMO by far. Unless of of course all you are interested in is midrange, they have plenty of that. If i'm really desperate and none of my other 5-6 go to's are charged i'll use them for audiobooks.


----------



## d3myz

I was just buzzing through the thread, so I apologize if I missed something. The form factor of the Tranya T10 looks near identical to the Rimor. Has anyone had a hands on with them yet? As i've previously mentioned I really did not like the sound of the Rimor, but I def. like the form factor.


----------



## VICosPhi (Jul 24, 2020)

Tested Sennheiser Momentum True Wireless 2 today at 60% volume with ANC ON and only got 4 hours 05 minutes battery life out of them. These are only a week old. Are you guys getting the same battery life out of these?

BTW, Amazon US has WF-1000XM3 for $178

https://www.amazon.com/Sony-WF-1000XM3-Industry-Canceling-Wireless/dp/B07T81554H/


----------



## zerogun (Jul 24, 2020)

I finally finally got my T10's (I suppose that's one of the benefits of living in HK these day being close to the borders )

As usual I definitely needed better ear tips, so I slapped on some Comply tips and it helped with sound isolation and leak heaps. I also received the FiiO FW1's this week as well and so I'm now able to have a very quick dirty comparison between the two.

I think the T10's sound more expansive and handle bass better. This is just a brief impression I'm getting from listening to the T10's however. The connectivity of the T10's also seem much more in line with your typical BT earphone, whereas I've been experiencing weird issues with the FW1's (things like not turning on and automatically pairing when being removed from the case and not shutting off when they're placed back in the case with the lid closed).

Neither phones seem to have a way to upgrade firmware over time with an app to support it so I'm not sure how that works (especially since the FiiO have connectivity issues that could probably be resolved through a firmware upgrade).


----------



## bronco1015

[QU


VICosPhi said:


> Tested Sennheiser Momentum True Wireless 2 today at 60% volume with ANC ON and only got 4 hours 05 minutes battery life out of them. These are only a week old. Are you guys getting the same battery life out of these?
> 
> BTW, Amazon US has WF-1000XM3 for $178
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/Sony-WF-1000XM3-Industry-Canceling-Wireless/dp/B07T81554H/


 i haven't had a reason to listen longer than 4 hours with these, longest was right around 4 hours while traveling. i rarely use these past 50% and i had anc on the whole time, and still had right around half the battery left according to the app, and the estimate on my phone. i've found that feature in Android to be vastly improoved from when i first ssaw it a couple years ago. now i'm gonna have to do the full battery drain test though.
FWIW, i only charge them via a wall charger.


----------



## Caipirina

OMG OMG OMG
another BOSE leak!!!


perviously unseen model!
sounds like a legit website 

(and no, I won’t link to those scammers. For those not realizing it yet, this is just a bit of pre-weekend tomfoolery  )


----------



## soldiersixteen

I'll most likely be returning my tronsmart apollo bold due to connection issues with my phone, TV and laptop. Also the mics really don't work well. Everyone has been saying it sounds muffled like I'm very far.


----------



## Caipirina

Did some here say they like their PaMu scroll? 

Looks like there is a chance to get one cheap on amazon warehouse ... but the reviews are really bad ... 

But there might also be a tiny chance I order this for 27€ and actually get a Beyerdynamic Avantho???


----------



## Mouseman (Jul 24, 2020)

Shadowclash10 said:


> No?  Shame. Is it because of their SQ? Cause their feature set seems perfect to me.


Yes. The SQ is among the worst I've ever heard, and I've heard a lot. I have the B530s and love them, but the Rimors are a disaster. I have no-name buds that are more listenable than the Rimors.


----------



## chinmie (Jul 24, 2020)

Caipirina said:


> Did some here say they like their PaMu scroll?
> 
> Looks like there is a chance to get one cheap on amazon warehouse ... but the reviews are really bad ...
> 
> But there might also be a tiny chance I order this for 27€ and actually get a Beyerdynamic Avantho???




the treble is not piercing.. per-se.. but i'd call it abrasive? listening to the pamu scroll for some period of time will fatigue my ears and make them ringing. the pamu unique that i also now have strangely also shared the similar treble abrasive-ness, but with better bass and mids tuning. it's similar to the Sony EX1000's treble (on that abrasive term).

if you have no problem with listening to the EX1000, then the Pamu would be good for you, because the truth is as a package they're nicely built


----------



## TheLionelHutz

TheLionelHutz said:


> Are the Mpow M30 the current recommendation for inexpensive (<$50), decent sound, and high water resistance (IPX7 or better)? My wife wants to listen to podcasts at the pool, and I am concerned about her using her Galaxy Buds for that purpose (I have 3 kids; they splash a lot).


Bumping this. Any other suggestions?


----------



## Bobbetybob

TheLionelHutz said:


> Bumping this. Any other suggestions?


I think they'd do the job nicely if it's only for podcasts. I like the Edifier X3 but they're IPX5, would probably be alright as long as they didn't actually end up IN the pool.


----------



## Shadowclash10

Oh yeah, that reminds me, Sony WF-SP800Ns are ~$150 at Amazon.us right now. Some people didn't get a good fit, but...
https://www.amazon.com/Sony-WF-SP80...935-20&ascsubtag=01P31QuyI8ssSVMuhTh4H7g&th=1


----------



## Shadowclash10

TheLionelHutz said:


> Bumping this. Any other suggestions?


Based on what I have heard, Bomaker Sifi II (IPX7), Enacfire E60 (IPX8), and the Earfun Free (IPX7)


----------



## Shadowclash10

Does anyone know what BT codecs the Bomaker Sifi II uses? Mixed answers on Amazon.


----------



## clerkpalmer

TheLionelHutz said:


> Bumping this. Any other suggestions?


I was down to mpow m30, bowmaker and the fiil t1x. I went with the m30 but I think those 3 are the choices atm in the sub 50 category. I'm pleased with the m30 for the price. My guess is any of them would do the job and none of them will be leaps and bounds above the other. The Fiil may offer better sq if that is a factor but it may be lost on her of shes outside with ambient noise.


----------



## Sam L

clerkpalmer said:


> I was down to mpow m30, bowmaker and the fiil t1x. I went with the m30 but I think those 3 are the choices atm in the sub 50 category. I'm pleased with the m30 for the price. My guess is any of them would do the job and none of them will be leaps and bounds above the other. The Fiil may offer better sq if that is a factor but it may be lost on her of shes outside with ambient noise.


Agreed, those 3 would be the consistent top 3 in the sub $60 category.


----------



## DigDub (Jul 24, 2020)

Audio Technica anc300tw. 







The sound quality is much better with ANC on, the volume gets louder and the bass is fuller. Overall sound signature is balanced with very good resolution and timbre all round. Sibilance can occasionally be heard. The size of the buds are quite big but luckily they are very comfortable in ear as the inner side is sculpted quite heavily to conform to inner shape of the ears. The hear through/ambient mode is very natural. The left or right buds can be used independently.

Shortcomings are the ANC can only be turned off or on inside the app. No proximity sensor to auto pause when the buds are taken off (I don't like them anyway since music gets paused when all I want is to adjust the buds position sometimes, so the lack of a proximity sensor is a plus for me). There's no way to activate assistants, it's clear Audio Technica has placed it's focus on audio above smart features.


----------



## dwells

Hey all, looking for some help in picking some TWS in the ~$50 realm to travel with. I’m aiming for something reliable that won’t break within a year, decent mic that can handle outdoor calls while I’m walking and motorbikes are going by, and decent sound quality.

I tend to prefer an accurate, neutral sound - my Tin Audio T2s are some of my favorite audio gear. But I don’t necessarily have an issue with more colorful sound signatures if they’re warm and pleasant. I have a pair of the original Bowers & Wilkins P5 headphones that I also love, despite them not being anywhere near reference studio monitors.

I've been checking Scarbir and other reviews, and so far I think I’ve narrowed down the contenders to:

EarFun Air
Fiil T1X
Boya BY-AP1
TaoTronics SoundLiberty 79
Any thoughts? I may just have to order all four from Amazon and compare and see which I want to keep.


----------



## jant71 (Jul 24, 2020)

ON July 31, MUSIN will launch the CF01 adapter, which can turn wired earphones into fully wireless earphones, from iBasso Audio. The price is open, but it is expected to sell for around 18,370 yen(US$174-ish) including tax.



"CF01"

Earphones that use MMCX connectors can be used as fully wireless earphones. By installing an independent amplifier chip, it can be driven even with multi-driver earphones.



Equipped with an independent amplifier chip

Bluetooth chips use Qualcomm QCC3020. Supports Bluetooth 5.0 and codecs support SBC/AAC/aptX. It is also compatible with TWS+ which can connect the adapter and the smartphone independently respectively.

The main unit has a built-in microphone that can be used to reduce noise using cVc noise cancelling technology. Even in noisy streets, it is said to achieve clear call quality. It also supports the voice assistant of the paired terminal.



Case storage image

It can be used for up to 4 hours with the adapter alone and 20 hours in combination with the charging case. The adapter takes about 1.5 hours to full charge. In addition to USB Type-C as the charging terminal for the case, it also supports wireless charging (Qi).

By adopting an ergonomic design, the main body pursues a shape that is comfortable to wear even when worn for a long time. In order to comply with the WATERPROOF standard of IPX5, it can be used with confidence even during exercise or sudden rain. In addition, MMCX connectors are said to be about four times more durable than conventional connectors.


4 hours is not great unless the amplifier chips really do have power and SQ then I can understand. If they do give good clean power they use the juice. How good does it sound and how good are the controls are the big questions. iBasso does usually do a good job so there is potential. I see one button up top. Better than behind the ear but why do these things have one button. Nuarl can put two and three buttons on a TW with much less space. Would be nice to have the standard 3 button BT setup.


----------



## actorlife (Jul 24, 2020)

Shadowclash10 said:


> Honestly? Just cycled through some expensive pairs like the WF-100XM3s, MW07, etc. Couldn;t justify the price-to-performance ratio compared to chi-fi, considering that I mainly drive headphones anyway. Also, I hate stem designs . I just hate it when: SQ is flat (not really analytical, but like completely flat), or when the bass overspills into other freqs. Other than that, I just want >5-6 hours of battery life, and USB Type-C (can't handle microUSB anymore  ). So it looks like I can choose between the Enacfire E60s, Tranya Rimors, Bowmaker Sifi II, and the EarFun Free.


Ok ya need to get those I link a page back for recommendation. Anbes 359 since no longer available these are your best bet.
Oh looked what arrived! Edit whoops. Thanks C. Some pics later.


----------



## Caipirina

actorlife said:


> Ok ya need to get those I link a page back for recommendation. Anbes 359 since no longer available these are your best bet.
> Oh looked what arrived! Some more pics later.


And now we all have yours and Christina’s address


----------



## actorlife (Jul 24, 2020)

Caipirina said:


> And now we all have yours and Christina’s address


Thanks C just edited it. Dang was so excited and forgot to look at the pic.


----------



## d3myz

Caipirina said:


> Did some here say they like their PaMu scroll?
> 
> Looks like there is a chance to get one cheap on amazon warehouse ... but the reviews are really bad ...
> 
> But there might also be a tiny chance I order this for 27€ and actually get a Beyerdynamic Avantho???


They are worth $35 american if you like a warm almost muddy sound signature, the inability to power them off w/o the case and overly sensitive touch controls


----------



## Shadowclash10

jant71 said:


> ON July 31, MUSIN will launch the CF01 adapter, which can turn wired earphones into fully wireless earphones, from iBasso Audio. The price is open, but it is expected to sell for around 18,370 yen(US$174-ish) including tax.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Right. The charging case and USB Type C are nice, but four hours is too short, esp considering the FiiO UTWS1 is ~$50, and the same with the TRN one.


----------



## assassin10000 (Jul 24, 2020)

Shadowclash10 said:


> Right. The charging case and USB Type C are nice, but four hours is too short, esp considering the FiiO UTWS1 is ~$50, and the same with the TRN one.



Not necessarily. If it outputs greater mW to drive IEM's that need the higher output (low sensitivity, 100-300+ ohm or combination of both) 4 hours @ 50% volume could be plenty. For current tech & batteries.

Is there a mW rating (ie: 32mW @ 32Ω)?

The case is neat. I also like that it appears to use 'soft' ear hooks.


----------



## TheLionelHutz (Jul 24, 2020)

The new Astrotecs are here! The new Astrotecs are here!

After a week without an update, suddenly the tracking said "Out for Delivery" this morning.  Lo and behold, it wasn't a bluff.  6 weeks since I ordered them.  Sigh.

S90 Pro Impressions:

Everything about the packaging and quality is top-notch.  Build is solid and doesn't feel cheap at all.

Setup was easy and everything paired right away.  Mono-mode switching works perfectly.

Fit is good - these are on the smaller side. They don't disappear into my ear, but they are smaller than, for instance, the Tranya B530. Not quite as small and ergonomic in terms of fit as the Model X+ or Galaxy Buds.  Touch controls are about what I expect

More impressions about sound later after I've spent more than 90 minutes with them.  So far I'm really impressed on some tracks and a little underwhelmed on others. They are proving very detailed and very sensitive to EQing, so I don't have Wavelet dialed in. I will say that I'm impressed with the bass response for being a BA set.  After a little EQ, the bass has great presence that's very tight, just like I like it.  Out of the box they sounded pretty congested and like they are tuned to an A-shaped signature, but I've largely tamed that.

I will say that they don't get terribly loud.  I can comfortably listen to these at 90%, and 100% isn't unpleasant. Not for those who love or need a ton of dbs.


----------



## jant71 (Jul 24, 2020)

assassin10000 said:


> Not necessarily. If it outputs greater mW to drive IEM's that need the higher output (low sensitivity, 100-300+ ohm or combination of both) 4 hours @ 50% volume could be plenty. For current tech & batteries.
> 
> Is there a mW rating (ie: 32mW @ 32Ω)?
> 
> The case is neat. I also like that it appears to use 'soft' ear hooks.



Manual... https://fccid.io/2AWR9-CF01/User-Manual/User-Manual-4793175.pdf ... says 4.5 hours and 9mw @32ohm. Looks like no volume control either.


----------



## assassin10000

jant71 said:


> Manual... https://fccid.io/2AWR9-CF01/User-Manual/User-Manual-4793175.pdf ... says 4.5 hours and 9mw @32ohm. Looks like no volume control either.



Yeah. That is kind of weak. Close to a cell phone 3.5mm out. I think my old S5 was 10-11mW @32Ω


----------



## Shadowclash10

assassin10000 said:


> Not necessarily. If it outputs greater mW to drive IEM's that need the higher output (low sensitivity, 100-300+ ohm or combination of both) 4 hours @ 50% volume could be plenty. For current tech & batteries.
> 
> Is there a mW rating (ie: 32mW @ 32Ω)?
> 
> The case is neat. I also like that it appears to use 'soft' ear hooks.


True, but older alternatives that are waay cheaper offer about 8 hours. If I am paying 3-4x the money, I don't want such big drawbacks, amirite?

Hey, at least we are getting more of these on the market! Yaay!!!


----------



## assassin10000

Shadowclash10 said:


> True, but older alternatives that are waay cheaper offer about 8 hours. If I am paying 3-4x the money, I don't want such big drawbacks, amirite?
> 
> Hey, at least we are getting more of these on the market! Yaay!!!



Yeah. I get just over 9.5hrs on my BT20S (@20% volume).

The specs @jant71 just posted put me off. Output seems a bit weak. Although the charging case is a huge step forward IMO. It has Qi wireless charging, which I really like and tends to be a priority for me now.


----------



## Luke Skywalker

Shadowclash10 said:


> Mentally debating whether I should go for some super cheap chi-fi buds, like Tranyas or the enacfire e60 (so about $30-40), known brands like the Creative Outlier Air (about $70), or known brands like the Samsung Galaxy Buds + (~$140)


I love the NUARL n6 Pro and they’re not too pricey. Blow away jabra 65, Sony Xm3 and sound almost as good as my JH Lola’s for some music

no ANC though so you might want to wait on their new ones that somebody here posted about


----------



## howdy

Was out fishing today and had the power Beats with and they sounded great but what I like most was that I didn't have to worry about them falling out.


----------



## actorlife

Shadowclash10 said:


> True, but older alternatives that are waay cheaper offer about 8 hours. If I am paying 3-4x the money, I don't want such big drawbacks, amirite?
> 
> Hey, at least we are getting more of these on the market! Yaay!!!


These get these:
2E True Wireless Earbuds Bluetooth 5.0 - Ear Buds Wireless Earphones Waterproof TWS with Portable Charging Case 20H Playtime Stereo Sound Sports Bluetooth Earbuds with Microphone, Raindrops Black https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07RXLH4XV/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_nv5gFbH4DJ5MY
Or
Bluetooth Earbuds Wireless Earbuds Bluetooth Earphones Wireless Headphones, OFUSHO Bluetooth 5.0 Deep Bass 152H Playtime IPX7 Waterproof TWS Stereo in-Ear Headphones with Charging Case, CVC8.0 Apt-X https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07VD3M6M3/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_Sx5gFbYM4KV5X


----------



## VICosPhi (Jul 25, 2020)

Jabra 75T are really awesome when used with Wavelet app to tweak EQ settings in addition to the stock EQ app. I can get them to sound about 80% like Sennheiser MTW2.

You won't get the instrument separation of the Sennheisers, the controlled response across all frequencies which is amazing on Sennheisers(though a bit dark in treble), but you can get very close to the MTW2 sound quality by taming down the bombastic bass and upper treble. Also need to bring down some mid-range frequencies to tame its shouty nature for longer listening.

Jabra 75t, even though physically smaller in size than MTW2 give me actual 7 hours of battery life vs 4 hours 30mins on my MTW2, Jabras have a very good microphone for phone calls(much, much better than MTW2 mic which sounds like you are talking inside of a rotating fan from a distance, or in other words like you are talking in a walkie-talkie where your voice breaks up or becomes thin for some words you speak in a sentence).

Jabras also have customizable button controls for phone calls, not to mention a dedicated mute button as well. The app also shows earbuds AND case battery level and the case is tiny and pocket-able. They also have auto-off feature if not used for X minutes and you can actually power them off manually to save battery when outside of the case (unlike Sennheisers which can only be put in low power standby mode by sacrificing volume control option to power off option). There is also "Find my earphones" feature in the app. Jabras also support connecting two devices at the same time and support Multi-point (for those that like to use them with PC and phone at the same time) which Sennheisers don't. There is also a level adjust option for Sidetone that Sennheisers lack.

I am gonna exchange my MTW2 to see if the 4 and half hours of battery is an isolated issue with my current pair, if new ones have the same issue I don't see much value in MTW2 with their 2x cost compared to Jabras with ANC being the only key advantage of Sennheisers and 20% better sound quality.


----------



## Shadowclash10

actorlife said:


> These get these:
> 2E True Wireless Earbuds Bluetooth 5.0 - Ear Buds Wireless Earphones Waterproof TWS with Portable Charging Case 20H Playtime Stereo Sound Sports Bluetooth Earbuds with Microphone, Raindrops Black https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07RXLH4XV/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_nv5gFbH4DJ5MY
> Or
> Bluetooth Earbuds Wireless Earbuds Bluetooth Earphones Wireless Headphones, OFUSHO Bluetooth 5.0 Deep Bass 152H Playtime IPX7 Waterproof TWS Stereo in-Ear Headphones with Charging Case, CVC8.0 Apt-X https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07VD3M6M3/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_Sx5gFbYM4KV5X


Argh, I need Type C )) and >5-6 hours of battery. So I guess I am looking at Enacfire E60, Earfun Free, and Bomaker Sifi II.


----------



## Shadowclash10

So I think I'll get the Enacfire E60s...in the morning


----------



## axhng

found a video talking about it already in japanese. Auto translate does sort of work though.





jant71 said:


> ON July 31, MUSIN will launch the CF01 adapter, which can turn wired earphones into fully wireless earphones, from iBasso Audio. The price is open, but it is expected to sell for around 18,370 yen(US$174-ish) including tax.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## d3myz

VICosPhi said:


> Jabra 75T are really awesome when used with Wavelet app to tweak EQ settings in addition to the stock EQ app. I can get them to sound about 80% like Sennheiser MTW2.
> 
> You won't get the instrument separation of the Sennheisers, the controlled response across all frequencies which is amazing on Sennheisers(though a bit dark in treble), but you can get very close to the MTW2 sound quality by taming down the bombastic bass and upper treble. Also need to bring down some mid-range frequencies to tame its shouty nature for longer listening.
> 
> ...


Are you on the latest firmware? 1.31.0 (1033) The EQ on these is MUCH toned down from what they were 1-2 updates ago.


----------



## VICosPhi

d3myz said:


> Are you on the latest firmware? 1.31.0 (1033) The EQ on these is MUCH toned down from what they were 1-2 updates ago.


Yeah on the latest firmware and Jabra EQ is pretty good now, but Wavelet gets you that extra fine tuning 9 band EQ which is great.


----------



## Nimweth

Mifo 05




These arrived yesterday. Very impressed by them. Easy connection, very comfortable and secure fit. They have a slightly soft sound with a well balanced profile and a very nice soundstage. Not dissimilar, in fact, to the CCA CA16 and all from a 6mm dynamic driver!


----------



## Trebor1966

*Haylou T16: The New Headset killer in 2020 with ANC For About $69.99?*
https://www.gearbest.com/community/OWzXTC


----------



## actorlife (Jul 25, 2020)

Shadowclash10 said:


> Argh, I need Type C )) and >5-6 hours of battery. So I guess I am looking at Enacfire E60, Earfun Free, and Bomaker Sifi II.


Ok but you’re missing out on great SQ for a great price. Why not try them if you don’t like them send them back. On my Anbes(usb-c) I get 5 hrs and ofusho truly 8-9hrs. 50-60 volume as I like my hearing rahaha.


----------



## Caipirina

Trebor1966 said:


> *Haylou T16: The New Headset killer in 2020 with ANC For About $69.99?*
> https://www.gearbest.com/community/OWzXTC


interesting, but I stopped reading after the 3rd 'aroused my curiosity'   Maybe written by a bot? 

Still, if it is Haylou, i'd give it a try, if given the chance ...


----------



## Caipirina (Jul 25, 2020)

I tried the search feature but no results ... does anyone here have / like / recommend the Soundpeats True Capsule?

Somehow they are being sold really cheap on amazon de right now .. they were lightnig deal at 13.99 (65% off the alleged regular 39.99) and now that the deal's over they come with a 25€ coupon instead ...  I know I wanted to not get any more stem based buds .. but .. so cheap ..   they are calling me 





(the 4 stars on scarbir still make me rather go 'eh' ... ) But maybe interesting for others here? your kid always wanted a black airpod alternative? Here you go


----------



## Shadowclash10

Ooo, has anyone g


Caipirina said:


> I tried the search feature but no results ... does anyone here have / like / recommend the Soundpeats True Capsule?
> 
> Somehow they are being sold really cheap on amazon de right now .. they were lightnig deal at 13.99 (65% off the alleged regular 39.99) and now that the deal's over they come with a 25€ coupon instead ...  I know I wanted to not get any more stem based buds .. but .. so cheap ..   they are calling me
> 
> ...


Well, $15 is alot cheaper than $40 or $50, amirite?  I would definitely not get those for myself, though. I am DONE with stem based TWS.


----------



## Shadowclash10

Caipirina said:


> interesting, but I stopped reading after the 3rd 'aroused my curiosity'   Maybe written by a bot?
> 
> Still, if it is Haylou, i'd give it a try, if given the chance ...


Ya, and for me, battery is too short, and there aren't volume controls.


----------



## Shadowclash10

Caipirina said:


> interesting, but I stopped reading after the 3rd 'aroused my curiosity'   Maybe written by a bot?
> 
> Still, if it is Haylou, i'd give it a try, if given the chance ...


Ya, and for me, battery is too short, and there aren;t


actorlife said:


> Ok but you’re missing out on great SQ for a great price. Why not try them if you don’t like them send them back. On my Anbes(usb-c) I get 5 hrs and ofusho truly 8-9hrs. 50-60 volume as I like my hearing rahaha.


Anbes has too short battery life, and Ofusho doesn't have type C     

You don;t think the Sifi II or Enacfire E60s sound good though? Thinking of getting both and returning the worse one.


----------



## Shadowclash10 (Jul 25, 2020)

Has anyone tried these? https://www.amazon.com/dp/B088LZKMJB
Some Geekee TWS...IPX7, 7 hours playback, aptX *and* AAC, CvC, Type C, etc. List price is $50, but the 30% coupon brings it down to $35...

*EDIT: *I think these are called the Geekee G650?


----------



## Shadowclash10

Also, TOZO NC9 have a 20% coupon, so $48.

LOL I sound like a bot, don't I.


----------



## Antenne

German iBood today has a deal for the 
*Master & Dynamic MW07*
at € 99.95 plus shipping.
https://www.ibood.com/electronics-d...322365/master-dynamic-bluetooth-kopfhrer.html


----------



## clerkpalmer (Jul 25, 2020)

Antenne said:


> German iBood today has a deal for the
> *Master & Dynamic MW07*
> at € 99.95 plus shipping.
> https://www.ibood.com/electronics-d...322365/master-dynamic-bluetooth-kopfhrer.html


Edit - I guess it's not too bad. They still sound great but that battery life is an issue.


----------



## actorlife

Shadowclash10 said:


> Ya, and for me, battery is too short, and there aren;t
> 
> Anbes has too short battery life, and Ofusho doesn't have type C
> 
> You don;t think the Sifi II or Enacfire E60s sound good though? Thinking of getting both and returning the worse one.


Haven’t heard those, but feedback says stay away. Sifi never heard of. Damn I haven’t even opened my boxes yet. Maybe later. Not sure how long you use TWS, but 5-9hrs is enough. To me if it has usb-c cool if not who cares. If juice runs out that’s why I have 8 + 3 TWS in boxes. I don’t keep mine in chargers I keep mine in cases so no extra bulk in my bag. Look at my overview in my sig.


----------



## Shadowclash10

So I know this sounds kinda odd, but does anyone feel more cool when they are wearing IEMs, compared to TWS? I have no idea why, but wearing wired maked me feel more sophisticated


----------



## clerkpalmer

Shadowclash10 said:


> So I know this sounds kinda odd, but does anyone feel more cool when they are wearing IEMs, compared to TWS? I have no idea why, but wearing wired maked me feel more sophisticated


Yes. Thankfully, I'm married with two kids and old (45) so I dont care ...  also I'm not sure anyone other than us headfiers would notice. That said, I'd feel a lot cooler with a set of xelentos in my ear versus some Sonys tws. Or maybe some of those sweet looking Campfires.


----------



## Gordilocks

Pipe down on the old, I'm about 50 soon. Lol I'll be happy enough to be able to make up my mind on what I actually want. There's too much out there with too many compromises to balance out. As far as looking cool, I think I look less cool when tripping up on wires or getting wires caught on things. 🙄



clerkpalmer said:


> Yes. Thankfully, I'm married with two kids and old (45) so I dont care ...  also I'm not sure anyone other than us headfiers would notice. That said, I'd feel a lot cooler with a set of xelentos in my ear versus some Sonys tws. Or maybe some of those sweet looking Campfires.


----------



## actorlife

Three times the fun. Let’s see if they are all a keeper. Still got the Levi on the way. Should be here on Monday I hope. All I know out of the four one has to go back. I’m hungry gotta eat. Raha.


----------



## Shadowclash10

actorlife said:


> Haven’t heard those, but feedback says stay away. Sifi never heard of. Damn I haven’t even opened my boxes yet. Maybe later. Not sure how long you use TWS, but 5-9hrs is enough. To me if it has usb-c cool if not who cares. If juice runs out that’s why I have 8 + 3 TWS in boxes. I don’t keep mine in chargers I keep mine in cases so no extra bulk in my bag. Look at my overview in my sig.


Wait what. Everyone says the Sifi is amazing.


----------



## jant71

Shadowclash10 said:


> Wait what. Everyone says the Sifi is amazing.



Good for the price? "Amazing" isn't the impression I get. A keeper but not amazing where people are turning in their Nuarl's and Senn's and such in favor of them.

Soundpeats Truengine III SE is getting a lot of praise so far. The hype is strong with that one so far.


----------



## Shadowclash10

actorlife said:


> Three times the fun. Let’s see if they are all a keeper. Still got the Levi on the way. Should be here on Monday I hope. All I know out of the four one has to go back. I’m hungry gotta eat. Raha.


Soo... Tronmart Spunky Beat, Tranya what? T3s, T10s, B530 Pros? I have no idea what the middle one is. No, wait. I figured it out. The middle ones are TWS IEMs made by Losoi! Look how smart I am


----------



## Caipirina (Jul 25, 2020)

Antenne said:


> German iBood today has a deal for the
> *Master & Dynamic MW07*
> at € 99.95 plus shipping.
> https://www.ibood.com/electronics-d...322365/master-dynamic-bluetooth-kopfhrer.html


Guten Abend 
That's exactly what I paid when ordering from M&D directly, like 2 weeks back? (and shipping was included, iBood wants 5.95€)
There was a coupon ppl shared here that might still be active ..  never heard of iBoob ...

(edit: nope, that code MW0750 does not work anymore ... )


----------



## DelsFan (Jul 25, 2020)

My wife wants some TWS IEMs to use with her iPhone while walking/jogging, so I need a recommendation.  She listens to a lot of books on tape (books downloaded to a silicon chip, more accurately stated).
Easy Peasy. 
ANC would be nice (so, let's say a requirement); battery life isn't that important because she'll just put them in their case every morning upon her return.  I will say (so, probably this eliminates the $50 options) a good microphone with good noise canceling would be good (necessary) in case she needs to take a phone call or two.

But, let's complicate a really simple purchase:  I might use these IEMs some, to listen to music, and I'm more particular.  So, in the $60 to $100 range, what are a couple of good no-brainer, buy-these-and-go-on-with-life, wireless IEM options?  Options that won't make me too mad when I try to listen to some music.
I'd prefer a brand I know, like Sennheiser or iBasso, Audio Technia, Sony, fiio, Etymotic (who don't seem to make a TWS IEM), but it doesn't have to be that way.  I know there are a "million" manufacturers in the IEM market, and probably some I've never heard of make a real good product (for the money).

If for some reason there is a $120 option that is so much better than most other (cheaper) options it's ridiculous, then I'd spend that amount, just to be done with it and know I purchased a decent product.  If this (spending more money) would make the IEM a lot more comfortable (because it might be smaller) then the extra expenditure would also be more palatable. 

I've learned a lot about headphones, but know nothing about IEMs other than what I've read the last two hours here and on Amazon.  Now I know barely more than nothing and will appreciate a couple of recommendations!


----------



## Shadowclash10

DelsFan said:


> My wife wants some TWS IEMs to use with her iPhone while walking/jogging, so I need a recommendation.  She listens to a lot of books on tape (books downloaded to a silicon chip, more accurately stated).
> Easy Peasy.
> ANC would be nice (so, let's say a requirement); battery life isn't that important because she'll just put them in their case every morning upon her return.  I will say (so, probably this eliminates the $50 options) a good microphone with good noise canceling would be good (necessary) in case she needs to take a phone call or two.
> 
> ...


So... let's seperate the situation:

<$50, no ANC, good for music. Plenty of options here. You can get something like the Bomaker Sifi II, Fiit TX1, etc. There are few name-brands here, only really Mpow and Anker. This will sound quite decent - maybe not as good as a $300 pair, but good nonetheless. Actually, there are quite a lot of TWS in this range with decent mikes, like the Soundcore Liberty Air 2s, etc. You won;t get ANC sub $50.
Between $50 and $100. This is where all the chi-fi (cheap chinese (not always chinese though)-fi) ANC buds are. You would have to go with the non-name brands, so something like the Mpow X3, or the Tozo NC9/20Decibel. ANC won't be amazing, but it can suffice. 
Between $100 and $150. I THINK that there actually aren't a ton of options here - name-brand ANC buds are more expensive, and chi-fi ANC buds are cheaper than this. There is the Edifier TWS NB, 
Between $150 and $200. This is where the big-brand w/ANC come in. From here, I would recommend the Sony WF-1000XM3 (which is on sale requently nowdays) (or the WF-SP800N, if you want to go the slightly more athletic route). This is where ANC will really be good.

The biggest thing is deciding which price-point you are looking at.


----------



## assassin10000 (Jul 25, 2020)

DelsFan said:


> My wife wants some TWS IEMs to use with her iPhone while walking/jogging, so I need a recommendation.  She listens to a lot of books on tape (books downloaded to a silicon chip, more accurately stated).
> Easy Peasy.
> ANC would be nice (so, let's say a requirement); battery life isn't that important because she'll just put them in their case every morning upon her return.  I will say (so, probably this eliminates the $50 options) a good microphone with good noise canceling would be good (necessary) in case she needs to take a phone call or two.
> 
> ...



Requiring decent ANC pretty much kills the sub $150 market, except for maybe used/refurb Sony WF-1000XM3's. But they are large, stick out and are not good for active use for many.

There is the freshly released tronsmart apollo bold but only 1 or 2 members have it so far. Waiting for more feedback (one of them despises phone calls thru TWS, so mic performance is unknown).

If you remove ANC from the equation things open up a lot. Sound signature preference would help. 

I'd look through crinacle's excellent sound comparison for many more mainstream TWS here:
https://crinacle.com/guide/tws/


----------



## Samplingentropy

So..
My Apollo bold showed up 2 days ago, even though the mail said EST delivery 7sep.

Some initial thoughts.
Case is small and neat, feels sturdy enough although not Rolls Royce nice.

Pairing went painless and smooth.
Sounds nice to my deaf ears,until the connection starts dropping, only like a milli sexc but enough to irritate.
I tried to go biking,the wind noise kills all the fun,they are just to big for my small ears, and I can't fit em under my helmet. =\
Tried ambient mode, sounds like a constant waterfall, or like biking on loose gravel.
And everything sounds really close, like borrowing grandpa's hearing aid when I was little.

Tried ANC, it seems to be hit and miss, the tractor outside my window was still just as loud,but the kids playing went really quiet.
The train was still loud,but the lorry's went almost silent.
Music got a bit muffled with ANC on.

Just walking around in town, normal mode I really like the sound the make, and they go pretty loud, louder than I need.

Looking forward to the app in September to see if anything changes.

If not I'm sorry to say I'm going back to wired phones.


----------



## VICosPhi

Staples selling Airpod pros for $199 tomorrow and Airpods for $129


----------



## Shadowclash10

assassin10000 said:


> Requiring decent ANC pretty much kills the sub $150 market, except for maybe used/refurb Sony WF-1000XM3's. But they are large, stick out and are not good for active use for many.
> 
> There is the freshly released tronsmart apollo bold but only 1 or 2 members have it so far. Waiting for more feedback (one of them despises phone calls thru TWS, so mic performance is unknown).
> 
> ...


and scarbir. Scarbir tends to review the cheaper end, while Crinnacle only focuses on audio quality for brand names. Both are extremely useful.
scarbir.com


----------



## Shadowclash10

Argh. Have you seen the latest Galaxy Buds Live rumors? 12mm drivers sound nice, but 4.5-5.5 hours is terrible compared to Buds+. Def not interested.


----------



## TK33

Shadowclash10 said:


> Argh. Have you seen the latest Galaxy Buds Live rumors? 12mm drivers sound nice, but 4.5-5.5 hours is terrible compared to Buds+. Def not interested.


And supposedly priced higher than Buds+ I believe (think I read $169 yesterday). I have been waiting for this one but pretty disappointed in what I have been reading so far.  Only reason I may get them is if call quality is improved further (compared to previous generations).


----------



## hmscott (Jul 25, 2020)

*Galaxy Buds+ BTS Edition - Ultra Violet for $199*
https://www.samsung.com/us/mobile/galaxy-s20-5g/bts-edition/

https://www.samsung.com/us/mobile/audio/headphones/galaxy-buds-plus-bts-edition-sm-r175nzpbxar/



https://www.cnn.com/2020/07/06/cnn-underscored/galaxy-buds-plus-bts-edition-review/index.html

Unboxing the BTS Edition Samsung Galaxy Buds+ | Mashable


----------



## Shadowclash10

hmscott said:


> *Galaxy Buds+ BTS Edition - Purple for $199*
> https://www.samsung.com/us/mobile/galaxy-s20-5g/bts-edition/
> 
> https://www.samsung.com/us/mobile/audio/headphones/galaxy-buds-plus-bts-edition-sm-r175nzpbxar/


Uhh, why is Samsung selling these a $50 markup? Is it cause they are a special edition?


----------



## hmscott (Jul 26, 2020)

Shadowclash10 said:


> Uhh, why is Samsung selling these a $50 markup? Is it cause they are a special edition?


Yup, fan juice 

There's also a BTS Ultra Violet Galaxy S20+ 5G BTS Edition
https://www.samsung.com/us/mobile/galaxy-s20-5g-bts/buy/

Unboxing BTS Edition Samsung Galaxy S20 Plus, Buds Plus & Photo Cards!

Unboxing Samsung Galaxy BTS S20+, Buds+ Special Edition! (Eng sub)

And, Galaxy Unpacked August 5th, sign up here and get $50 off on a new phone announced at the show:
https://www.samsung.com/us/smartphones/reserve/


Spoiler: I signed up...



*You're all set. Thanks for your reservation!*
Watch for an email to complete your pre-order. You'll have $50 instant credit to accessorize your Galaxy or add a smartwatch








Samsung Galaxy Note 20 Ultra CONFIRMED!

Samsung dropped the 100x for a 50x Zoom... IDK, maybe I'll pop for the side-grade from my Ultra 20, it depends on how "enhanced" the trade-in credit is 

Samsung Galaxy Note 20 Ultra - THIS IS IT!

Note 20 Ultra Pre-Order Gifts


----------



## darveniza

Still enjoying the AKG N400, All my other TWS have been parked. The combination of the sound tuning and the other features are just making easy to be my Go To. 
Will see what else will Samsung do??. Hopefully they keep AKG functioning as their own Brand


----------



## Shadowclash10

hmscott said:


> Yup, fan juice
> 
> There's also a BTS Ultra Violet Galaxy S20+ 5G BTS Edition
> https://www.samsung.com/us/mobile/galaxy-s20-5g-bts/buy/
> ...



You know what would be nice? If you could apply the credit towards cheaper products, like the Buds Live. They never explicitely said phones. But that would really imbalance pricing, so probably only the new phones..


----------



## DelsFan

Shadowclash10 said:


> ...or the WF-SP800N, if you want to go the slightly more athletic route...
> 
> The biggest thing is deciding which price-point you are looking at.



Well, my price point is $60 to $100, or $120 if that iem is just a clear winner.
OR, $148  if I want ANC and an iem that will stay in place no matter what the activity (at least, any activity my wife would be participating in).  I may drop the ANC requirement which would add to quality, at a lower price point.  But if we must have the ANC feature, it seems the WF-SP800N does a lot of things well if a person is also active.  AND, this model Sony is virtually waterproof - sweat-proof at least.  If I was trying to keep cost low and it was for me, probably I'd lean toward the AKG N400.

Let's say I am willing to drop the ANC, but want decent sound quality and an earphone that will stay in my (wife's) ear during moderate exercise.  My wife will never fool with any software features after initial setup, so good sound and crap features wouldn't be the worst.  Are there sub $100 iems that sound as good as the WF-SP800Ns, and will stay secure in one's ear(s), but don't have ANC?  Or, should one just pony up the $148 and go with the Sony and move on?


----------



## hmscott (Jul 26, 2020)

Shadowclash10 said:


> You know what would be nice? If you could apply the credit towards cheaper products, like the Buds Live. They never explicitely said phones. But that would really imbalance pricing, so probably only the new phones..


Samsung did that last time, I had $235+ worth of "credit" to buy any Samsung product, so I got the Buds+, Ultra case, and used the rest of the credit toward a Samsung Tab S6 

Note 20 Ultra Pre-Order Gifts

Don't forget to reserve that $50 credit as that's only the first part of the credits to add up together.
https://www.samsung.com/us/smartphones/reserve/

Also, it looks like the Buds+ Live are named "Beans" 


Samsung Galaxy Buds Live (Beans) | OFFICIALLY HERE | GET READY !!


----------



## dwells

Anyone know anything about the Aukey EP-N5 active noise canceling buds that came out recently? I can’t find much for reviews. At $50 with ANC I’m not expecting much, but Scarbir seemed to really like the Aukey T21, so I’m hesitant to write these new ones off completely.


----------



## Peddler

The Tronsmart Apollo's arrived yesterday and I have had a brief listen to them.  Definitely forward in the bass somewhat but I do like their sound character.  ANC does work - not quite up to Sony's standard but does work.  I'm starting to put together a detailed review.  Feel free to ask questions folks - I'm happy to help.


----------



## Caipirina

PSA for those with access to amazon.de and still on the hunt for the first Bomaker Sifi model (I understand it is now hard to find?)
Just spotted one in the warehouse section!  Used - like new


----------



## actorlife (Jul 26, 2020)

Shadowclash10 said:


> Soo... Tronmart Spunky Beat, Tranya what? T3s, T10s, B530 Pros? I have no idea what the middle one is. No, wait. I figured it out. The middle ones are TWS IEMs made by Losoi! Look how smart I am


Those are Losei x12(type c and 5-6 battery) sports earbuds that I wanted to try. They have clips so when I’m biking or maybe a run they will stay in place. I’m charging all of them now and will check battery life and give an overview later this week when the Levi arrive. Ah yeah the Tranya T2, which I sent back to amazon and reordered another pair. Rated at 6hrs, but I only got 4hrs(50-60 vol) Let’s see if I get six if not going back.


----------



## howdy

actorlife said:


> Those are Losei x12(type c and 5-6 battery) sports earbuds that I wanted to try. They have clips so when I’m biking or maybe a run they will stay in place. I’m charging all of them now and will check battery life and give an overview later this week when the Levi arrive. Ah yeah the Tranya T2, which I sent back to amazon and reordered another pair. Rated at 6hrs, but I only got 4hrs(50-60 vol) Let’s see if I get six if not going back.


How are you liking the Lypertek Tevis?


----------



## trivik12

Trebor1966 said:


> *Haylou T16: The New Headset killer in 2020 with ANC For About $69.99?*
> https://www.gearbest.com/community/OWzXTC



Since its not mentioned I assume its not using Qualcomm chipset. Do we know when we will see TWS IEM's with the new Qualcomm chipsets announced this year.


----------



## Shadowclash10

actorlife said:


> Those are Losei x12(type c and 5-6 battery) sports earbuds that I wanted to try. They have clips so when I’m biking or maybe a run they will stay in place. I’m charging all of them now and will check battery life and give an overview later this week when the Levi arrive. Ah yeah the Tranya T2, which I sent back to amazon and reordered another pair. Rated at 6hrs, but I only got 4hrs(50-60 vol) Let’s see if I get six if not going back.


Huh, never heard of Losei, but they sound decent. It looks like they are an over-ear earhook model? 
It sounds like lots of people have been having problems with the Tranya T2 and T3 really falling short of suggested battery life.


----------



## jasonb

I could live with the WF1000xm3 as my only headphone/earphone. With EQ and the right tips they sound that good. Spotify + the Wavelet Android app and these with Spinfit cp360 tips is great.


----------



## Shadowclash10

DelsFan said:


> Well, my price point is $60 to $100, or $120 if that iem is just a clear winner.
> OR, $148  if I want ANC and an iem that will stay in place no matter what the activity (at least, any activity my wife would be participating in).  I may drop the ANC requirement which would add to quality, at a lower price point.  But if we must have the ANC feature, it seems the WF-SP800N does a lot of things well if a person is also active.  AND, this model Sony is virtually waterproof - sweat-proof at least.  If I was trying to keep cost low and it was for me, probably I'd lean toward the AKG N400.
> 
> Let's say I am willing to drop the ANC, but want decent sound quality and an earphone that will stay in my (wife's) ear during moderate exercise.  My wife will never fool with any software features after initial setup, so good sound and crap features wouldn't be the worst.  Are there sub $100 iems that sound as good as the WF-SP800Ns, and will stay secure in one's ear(s), but don't have ANC?  Or, should one just pony up the $148 and go with the Sony and move on?


Your choice. If you are interested in sub-$100 IEMs, consider the: Fiil TX1, Tozo NC9/Decibel20 (has ANC), Edifier TWS NB (down to $70 at the edifier website, also has ANC), and the Mpow X3s (also has ANC, but not as good). Now, I can;t speak to their SQ personally, but they should offer sound almost equal to the WF-SP800N, I think. Scarbir does good reviews of all of these.


----------



## Robius

trivik12 said:


> Since its not mentioned I assume its not using Qualcomm chipset. Do we know when we will see TWS IEM's with the new Qualcomm chipsets announced this year.



https://www.qualcomm.com/news/onq/2020/06/16/vivos-latest-earbuds-ultimate-truly-wireless-experience


----------



## FYLegend

Has anyone Monster Airlinks Achieve? Case seems rather generic so it just shows Monster of today is selling markup ChiFi. Form factor a bit like Galaxy Buds+
https://monsterstore.com/collection...r-achieve-100-true-wireless-bluetooth-earbuds

Any thoughts here on SoundPeats TrueEngine 3 SE? Wondering when we'll get a TrueEngine 3 flagship with a Qi-charging case though...



Trebor1966 said:


> *Haylou T16: The New Headset killer in 2020 with ANC For About $69.99?*
> https://www.gearbest.com/community/OWzXTC


Finally a Haylou with Type-C and Qi charging. Sadly no volume control and it says they're 105$CAD + 25$ expedited shipping. The shell looks similar to the Bomaker SiFi II



Shadowclash10 said:


> Ya, and for me, battery is too short, and there aren;t
> 
> Anbes has too short battery life, and Ofusho doesn't have type C


Anbes/Kissral R18/BE30 UFOs are "fake" Type-C, unless they were able to change this for the 2020 model. Doesn't charge Type C2C unless you're willing to do a teardown and solder a resistor into the connector. There was a version on Amazon with AptX (can't remember the name)  but it came with a microUSB case and also reported to sound different. One of the OEMs had listed an AptX version on Alibaba, not sure if it's still around though.


----------



## FYLegend (Jul 26, 2020)

Just got this ad, but I don't know if they can really keep their promise (looking at you, SongX and DSI). Seems like the Sifi II/Haylou T16 form factor is becoming more popular #banstems

Case supports wireless Qi charging and is similar to the Alien Secret QCC010







https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/...utm_medium=referral&utm_source=25dsa.fnd.to#/


----------



## TheLionelHutz (Jul 26, 2020)

TheLionelHutz said:


> The new Astrotecs are here! The new Astrotecs are here!
> 
> After a week without an update, suddenly the tracking said "Out for Delivery" this morning.  Lo and behold, it wasn't a bluff.  6 weeks since I ordered them.  Sigh.
> 
> ...


Alright, some more on sound impressions on the Astrotec S90 Pros.  I've been listening to them exclusively (and a lot) since Friday afternoon.

After some tip-rolling, I found that some S/M tips from my SoundCore Life P2 provide the most comfortable fit and seal (_*super weird*_--with the Life P2 tips on, the left one seats and charges in the case, _but the right one doesn't_. What the????).  I also prefer the fit without the fins.  Contrary to my earlier impressions, these actually are smaller in the ear than my Model X+, but they don't have as organic/ergonomic a fit.  They are comfortable and small, but not as comfortable as the Model X+.  But I don't mind it.

As I said, out of the box, or with EQ set to "flat," these are A-shaped, for sure.  Bass is recessed, highs are washed out, mids are way over-done.  If that's your jam, you won't need to EQ these.

I've dialed the EQ in now for my tastes and I still find this set to have multiple personalities.  Maybe its something about how they've set the cross-over on those 2 balanced armature units.  On anything with little emphasis on the mids in the musical track -- a distinct bassline, lots of melody in the upper registers, and just vocals in the middle, they sound delightful.  Extremely detailed, even delicate, very tight, very musical and energetic.  Great, tight bass, lovely well-defined treble without any sibilance (unless you crank it above 9k, and then, sure).  This includes synthy/electronic/vocal stuff (e.g., Grimes, Purity Ring, The XX, Phantogram, etc.) and anything acoustic (Beck's "Lost Cause" sounds excellent, as did Fleetwood Mac "Never Going Back Again").

But on rock tracks with more happening in the score in the middle, something weird takes hold, and it just ends up sounding flat across the spectrum.  Doesn't matter what I do with the EQ, it ends up sounding kind of lifeless.  My tastes favor indy rock, so I've listened to a lot of The National, Modest Mouse, The Shins, Arcade Fire, etc.  I can't say I've loved any of it, with maybe a couple exceptions (The National's "Anyone's Ghost" and "Start a War," with it's snappy snare drums, sounded pretty good).

So they are so far not an all-around all-star performer like the Nuarl N6 or ADV Model X+.  But for the right genres, they are pretty great.

I'd probably be a little more enthusiastic about keeping them around if it weren't for the rose gold case. My wife saw it and instantly assumed they were a gift for her (uh, awkward).


----------



## Ultrainferno

RemoGaggi said:


> Good.  I just got this from Linsoul in my email and I've seen some other brand have a UV case also.  I guess this is the new thing now.  https://mailchi.mp/6e97cc773c7e/order-your-tinhifi-t2000-now-9303070?e=8147af3c40



That T2000/TWS2000(renamed) is now fully reviewed on HFN: https://www.headfonia.com/tinhifi-tws2000-review/


----------



## chinmie

anyone got the Soundpeats Truengine 3SE yet? 
that traditional IEM form factor is really appealing to me.. i wonder how they sound


----------



## actorlife

howdy said:


> How are you liking the Lypertek Tevis?


I hope to get them today. I’m so excited to try them. So much praise here last year.


----------



## actorlife

Shadowclash10 said:


> Huh, never heard of Losei, but they sound decent. It looks like they are an over-ear earhook model?
> It sounds like lots of people have been having problems with the Tranya T2 and T3 really falling short of suggested battery life.


Yeah losei is something I never heard of. I was listening to them yesterday and I’m not impressed they are treble free and bass is shy. I’m going to burn in for a couple of days and see if any changes. I checked the battery on the Tranya T2 and again 4hrs only. Not sure if I’m going to keep them even though the sound sig is great. Now the Tronsport Spunky beats sound fantastic and have the same shape/sound sig as my beloved Anbes 359. I need to check battery on them.


----------



## Caipirina

This is slightly maddening: No sign of the AKG N400 in .de yet ... but amazon is already carrying protector sleeves for the charging box ... grrrrr





In other amazon observations, it feels crazy how cheap AptX TWS are getting now ... 





also, BT 5.1? Is that really a thing or one of those made up 8D whatever claims? What's better with the .1 ?


----------



## Mouseman

Caipirina said:


> also, BT 5.1? Is that really a thing or one of those made up 8D whatever claims? What's better with the .1 ?



It goes to 11…


----------



## AudioNoob

Bt5.1 brings handshake and location improvements but those can’t be 5.1 since they have the 5.0 Qualcomm chip


----------



## Alex Mattos

Hey guys.
I brought a Fiil T1X global version and I'm in love. I had seen some users talking about the sound quality and I decide to "invest" in this TWS and I'm very happy.
But I don't know if anyone had an issue connecting with the MacBook, specifically when you listen to some music and start a conference call. It's a little bit annoying when the conference end and turn the mono signal to stereo and the TWS just stop to work and you are forced to disconnect and connect again.
Anyone had this problem?


----------



## Shadowclash10

Caipirina said:


> This is slightly maddening: No sign of the AKG N400 in .de yet ... but amazon is already carrying protector sleeves for the charging box ... grrrrr
> 
> 
> 
> ...


In all seriousness, BT 5.1 isn't really too useful (maybe for other devices, sure, but not really for earbuds), it does some kinda location-finding thingie, and it is supposed to connect quicker and more efficiently to a source... I think the MTW2 has BT 5.1.


----------



## Caipirina (Jul 27, 2020)

Speaking of 5.1

just came across this TaoTronics ANC set ... first time ... also touting the 'hybrid' ANC and 35db reduction power like the Apollo Bold, minus the AptX ...





The 4 reviews sound like the usual shill ... I might try them if they come with a 20€ off coupon .. maybe 

I really really really want that next Bose ANC ... even though I am not totally sold by the looks ... (who are we kidding, money is ready to be thrown at Bose ASAP)

Speaking of cheap ANC ... here is a Libertone clone with a 40%off coupon ... one review is pretty damning ...





so, comes down to 45€ with coupon ... found another review in German which also says that sound is loads on the mids, very lean on bass / highs ... and ANC rather 'weak sauce' .. sooo ... I am still not jumping 

(edit: 20 minutes and one Japanese YT review later: I jumped ... I am weak. Not that this review is super great, but by now I want to check it out myself)


----------



## Luke Skywalker

DelsFan said:


> My wife wants some TWS IEMs to use with her iPhone while walking/jogging, so I need a recommendation.  She listens to a lot of books on tape (books downloaded to a silicon chip, more accurately stated).
> Easy Peasy.
> ANC would be nice (so, let's say a requirement); battery life isn't that important because she'll just put them in their case every morning upon her return.  I will say (so, probably this eliminates the $50 options) a good microphone with good noise canceling would be good (necessary) in case she needs to take a phone call or two.
> 
> ...


If you can stretch to $162 (current price on Amazon...), I would get the Nuarl N6 Pro.  I went for an hour run with them in my ears today (using Acoustune tips) and they stay in great.  The sound is awesome and even though there's no ANC, the isolation is pretty good even in a noisy gym


----------



## mikp

I see that they now have started using domain by proxy. Not that theres anything wrong with indiegogo and flexible funding.
old record

```
audeqs
Admin Name: Vivek Pokhriyal
Admin Organization:
Admin Street: I-1 Academy of administration
Admin Street: 1100 Quarters
Admin City: bhopal
Admin State/Province: Madhya Pradesh
Admin Postal Code: 462016
Admin Country: IN


magnifitechsolutions
Registrant Name: nadeem farooqui
Registrant Organization: technoresearch
Registrant Street: 8 sunrise colony idgah hills
Registrant City: bhopal
Registrant State/Province: Madhya Pradesh
Registrant Postal Code: 462001
Registrant Country: IN
```



FYLegend said:


> Just got this ad, but I don't know if they can really keep their promise (looking at you, SongX and DSI). Seems like the Sifi II/Haylou T16 form factor is becoming more popular #banstems
> 
> Case supports wireless Qi charging and is similar to the Alien Secret QCC010
> 
> ...


----------



## Shadowclash10

Caipirina said:


> Speaking of 5.1
> 
> just came across this TaoTronics ANC set ... first time ... also touting the 'hybrid' ANC and 35db reduction power like the Apollo Bold, minus the AptX ...
> 
> ...


Yah, IMO if you want ANC, you are better off getting more "tried-and-true" ones, like the Edifier TWS NB (down to $70 at the eidifier store), or the 20Decibel.


----------



## Shadowclash10 (Jul 27, 2020)

mikp said:


> I see that they now have started using domain by proxy. Not that theres anything wrong with indiegogo and flexible funding.
> old record
> 
> ```
> ...


Argh, those look so promising at $75, but I've learned not to trust Kickstarters/Indiegogos/Drops unless they are from a trusted brand.

EDIT: On the other hand, these have a website and an app - more work into  them then most promising-products-that-turn-out-to-be-scams.


----------



## Caipirina (Jul 27, 2020)

Shadowclash10 said:


> Yah, IMO if you want ANC, you are better off getting more "tried-and-true" ones, like the Edifier TWS NB (down to $70 at the eidifier store), or the 20Decibel.


I actually already have ... let me count ... 5 ANC sets ... always curious what else is out there and when it gets better ... I happen to have those Edifiers waiting unopened at home  (they arrived late, just after I left for the summer) .. now I need to look into what those 20decibels are ... (the same / similar as the TOZO?) 

IMHO for me the apple airpods still have the best / most immediate WOW effect when it comes to ANC ... the Sony are more fickle and need a lot of time trying with different tips (this is why I was initially less than impressed when I had a chance to try them in-store in Japan. The APP on the other hand, also tried instore, and immediate 'Woah!')


----------



## Shadowclash10

Caipirina said:


> I actually already have ... let me count ... 5 ANC sets ... always curious what else is out there and when it gets better ... I happen to have those Edifiers waiting unopened at home  (they arrived late, just after I left for the summer) .. now I need to look into what those 20decibels are ... (the same / similar as the TOZO?)
> 
> IMHO for me the apple airpods still have the best / most immediate WOW effect when it comes to ANC ... the Sony are more fickle and need a lot of time trying with different tips (this is why I was initially less than impressed when I had a chance to try them in-store in Japan. The APP on the other hand, also tried instore, and immediate 'Woah!')


Funny, most ppl like the Sony's more. If I remember correctly, the Tozo are a clone, $20 less, also available on amazon, slightly different design, and no option to turn off ANC from the buds.


----------



## actorlife (Jul 27, 2020)

Well they made it. For good condition they look newish. Let’s hope the Tevi gives 9-10hrs. Kissral should be 5 hrs. Gonna charge them up now. I got the giggles rahaha. Tevi time!!!


----------



## Peddler

actorlife said:


> Well they made it. For good condition they look newish. Let’s hope the Tevi gives 9-10hrs. Kissral should be 5 hrs. Gonna charge them up now. I got the giggles rahaha. Tevi time!!!


I think you will love them - I certainly do.


----------



## Samplingentropy

Is there anything with stable connection for under 30 iisch$?

So of put  by dropouts, I just can't stand em...


----------



## jant71

Samplingentropy said:


> Is there anything with stable connection for under 30 iisch$?
> 
> So of put  by dropouts, I just can't stand em...



Think the Edifier X3 has a good connection, aptX, good sound and small size for $20 to $25 depending where you buy.


----------



## dwells

So I narrowed my search down to three TWS that seemed to hit my checklist: good sound, USB-C, good mic for calls, solid connection. Here’s what I wound up at:

Fiil T1X
EarFun Air
Aukey EP-N5
I wound up ordering all three and they showed up today. Here’s some initial impressions if anyone is interested. For reference, my benchmarks for comparison are my Tin Audio T2 for more accurate reference listening, and My Bowers and Wilkins P5 for less accurate, but warm and easy to listen to.

*EarFun Air*
Right away, I really wanted to like these. Great features like in-ear detection that automatically pauses when you taken one out. Decent plastics and build quality, wireless charging, supposedly good US support. 

First impressions were good: surprisingly warm mids with good clarity. Listening to Sotto Voce by The Human Abstract was pleasant, with the plucked acoustic strings sounding nice. However, further listening to other tracks, especially Miracle by CHVRCHES revealed the fatal flaw for me: sibilance. There’s just too much on sharper vocals and this persists with highs in percussion as well. The sibilance ruins the earbuds for me, so back they’ll go.

*Aukey EP-N5*
These are newly released and I couldn’t find much in the way of reviews or anything for them. The big feature on these is that they have active noise canceling, impressive for the $50 price tag! The noise canceling itself isn’t quite as impressive, however. It works, you can tell the difference with it on or off, but it only seems to be able to handle the deeper hum of an air conditioning unit, not the hum and the fan noise.

Overall sound quality on these are pretty good. First off, sibilance isn’t an issue here. The highs are a bit dull, but it beats sibilance. Bass thumps nicely without being overpowering. Switching back and forth between these and my T2s Does leave me with a bit of an intangible feeling that they’re missing something, however.

On their own, they’re a perfectly competent pair of IEMs that sound pretty good and aren’t fatiguing, which is great. They’re just missing a bit of “wow factor,” I suppose, and the plastics for the earbuds and the case aren’t bad, but you won’t confuse them for a premium product either. That said, for the money I think they’re really solid.

*Fiil T1X*
When I first popped these in, I wasn’t entirely sure what the fuss was about. They sounded good, but I wasn’t blown away. But, I started to listen to them more and that quickly changed from just warming up to them to being impressed.

Mid-range is really clear without feeling flat, bass thumps nicely on tracks like Billie Eilish’s bad guy, and detail is there. No sibilance on percussion, but maybe a smidge more than my T2s on songs like Miracle where I’m sensitive to the vocals especially. That said, the sibilance is more of “if you’re listening for it” and I don’t think it would be fatiguing at all. 

They definitely sound better than the Aukeys, and build quality is better too. The buds themselves look more premium, and the case looks and feels more premium as well. However, this also brings me to what might break them for me  First, the fit is a bit off for me with the wings: it takes a lot of fiddling to get them to really tuck into my ear.

But the big issue? The case is fairly large and definitely _thick_. As I was walking around testing these, I always felt that damn case in my pocket and it’s very visible. Factor in the hard edges, and it’s really a bit of a pain. Despite these winning for sound and build quality, I may just wind up keeping the Aukeys instead because they’ll be easier to live with in my tight pockets when hiking, walking cities, flying, etc. 


I’m going to give the Aukeys a bit more time and see how they perform on calls and I’ll update here again if anyone is interested.


----------



## Shadowclash10

Has anyone seen that Shure's MMCX TWS adapter was recalled? Lucky people... they get a $100 Shure gift card for their troubles on-top of their refund... I wish I had bought one


----------



## SaveTheMantaRays

Samplingentropy said:


> Is there anything with stable connection for under 30 iisch$?
> 
> So of put  by dropouts, I just can't stand em...



My favorite 3 are Nuarl N6 pro ($162), FiiL T1X ($50) and mpow t5 ($45).  I know that is over $30, but have to say the Fiil T1X connection was superior to everything I have ever tried.  That is at least 10-14 different wireless Bluetooth earbuds.

Anyone have better connection reports than T1X, for any price ?


----------



## Alex Mattos

dwells said:


> So I narrowed my search down to three TWS that seemed to hit my checklist: good sound, USB-C, good mic for calls, solid connection. Here’s what I wound up at:
> 
> Fiil T1X
> EarFun Air
> ...


I had the same impression with the T1X. In a week listen to the Spotify I change my entire experience.
The sound is very balanced and the only thing I change about your review is about the fit. They fit very well in my ear.


----------



## dwells

Maybe I’ve got weird ears! Honestly I love these things so far, but damn, that case might just be too much.


----------



## voicemaster

anybody got their hands to the Technics AZ70 yet?


----------



## eiraku

dwells said:


> Maybe I’ve got weird ears! Honestly I love these things so far, but damn, that case might just be too much.



Hence prolly why the Fiil T1S is a thing 🤔


----------



## VICosPhi

voicemaster said:


> anybody got their hands to the Technics AZ70 yet?


Been trying but Amazon has postponed shipment twice now, July 5th then July 22nd, now Aug 20th


----------



## AudioNoob

dwells said:


> *EarFun Air*
> Right away, I really wanted to like these. Great features like in-ear detection that automatically pauses when you taken one out. Decent plastics and build quality, wireless charging, supposedly good US support.
> 
> First impressions were good: surprisingly warm mids with good clarity. Listening to Sotto Voce by The Human Abstract was pleasant, with the plucked acoustic strings sounding nice. However, further listening to other tracks, especially Miracle by CHVRCHES revealed the fatal flaw for me: sibilance. There’s just too much on sharper vocals and this persists with highs in percussion as well. The sibilance ruins the earbuds for me, so back they’ll go.


Strange about the sibilance, I find mine to have a bit of a rolloff on the highs. Are you sure you don't have EQ left on / tried with different devices?


----------



## voicemaster

VICosPhi said:


> Been trying but Amazon has postponed shipment twice now, July 5th then July 22nd, now Aug 20th


Is it the same with panasonic RZ-S500W?


----------



## VICosPhi (Jul 28, 2020)

voicemaster said:


> Is it the same with panasonic RZ-S500W?


Yeah the same for those as well

Anker Liberty2Air is at 20% off on Amazon right now


----------



## Bobbetybob

Update on MW07 Go:

I think the Spinfit CP100 have saved the day again. I think my main problem with these was the mid-bass. Sub-bass slam and impact is fine but when every drum hit sounds like a thunderclap and bass lines start showing up where they don't belong every song turns into a bit of a slog, I would almost call it fatiguing bass. 

The CP100 keep the impact on those lower bass hits but seem to remove the "boominess" of the drum hits which is exactly what wanted, bass lines are still there and clear but pushed back in the mix like I'd expect them to be and it's now a lot nicer to my ears. Now I just need to buy another set of CP100 to fit on all the other buds I like them on (they fit in the case too because thankfully M&D made a nice roomy case as their own buds are are quite long).


----------



## bronco1015

dwells said:


> Maybe I’ve got weird ears! Honestly I love these things so far, but damn, that case might just be too much.


 The case didn't bother me, but i couldn't get a fit i liked with the wings either. So i took them off, filed the edges down and would put them in vertically and they fit great and were comfortable.


----------



## helmutcheese

Bobbetybob said:


> Update on MW07 Go:
> 
> I think the Spinfit CP100 have saved the day again. I think my main problem with these was the mid-bass. Sub-bass slam and impact is fine but when every drum hit sounds like a thunderclap and bass lines start showing up where they don't belong every song turns into a bit of a slog, I would almost call it fatiguing bass.
> 
> The CP100 keep the impact on those lower bass hits but seem to remove the "boominess" of the drum hits which is exactly what wanted, bass lines are still there and clear but pushed back in the mix like I'd expect them to be and it's now a lot nicer to my ears. Now I just need to buy another set of CP100 to fit on all the other buds I like them on (they fit in the case too because thankfully M&D made a nice roomy case as their own buds are are quite long).




Is that the original CP100's or the newer 2020 improved model CP100's (which now come in XL)?


----------



## Bobbetybob

helmutcheese said:


> Is that the original CP100's or the newer 2020 improved model CP100's (which now come in XL)?


I'm actually not sure, I _think _they're the newer ones, I got them off Amazon in February this year.


----------



## helmutcheese (Jul 28, 2020)

Depends on size as XL's are rarer than hens teeth, I had a choice last week of Amazon US or Ebay UK from Polish based shop.

They claim the CP360's are best for TWS and now also have a XL size.


----------



## DigDub (Jul 28, 2020)

Soundpeats truegine 3 se.

In its case.






Close up of the dual drivers.





Very good mids. Vocals come across as clear and not muffled. Highs sound crisp and we'll defined, not sibilant. Bassy overall sound, the bass could use more definition. Soundstage is pretty much in the head and intimate rather than spacious sounding.

Compared to the truegine se, this one has a lower profile and doesn't stick out from the ears as much. The sound on the 3se is also clearer, the SE sounded muffled with woolly mids and highs.


----------



## Caipirina

Shadowclash10 said:


> Funny, most ppl like the Sony's more. If I remember correctly, the Tozo are a clone, $20 less, also available on amazon, slightly different design, and no option to turn off ANC from the buds.



and I totally get why people like the Sony more, a) they sound much better b) the ANC is a smidge better IF after long and hard trial and error you have found the perfect fit / tips and you do not dare move while listening to music


----------



## TK33

Bobbetybob said:


> Update on MW07 Go:
> 
> I think the Spinfit CP100 have saved the day again. I think my main problem with these was the mid-bass. Sub-bass slam and impact is fine but when every drum hit sounds like a thunderclap and bass lines start showing up where they don't belong every song turns into a bit of a slog, I would almost call it fatiguing bass.
> 
> The CP100 keep the impact on those lower bass hits but seem to remove the "boominess" of the drum hits which is exactly what wanted, bass lines are still there and clear but pushed back in the mix like I'd expect them to be and it's now a lot nicer to my ears. Now I just need to buy another set of CP100 to fit on all the other buds I like them on (they fit in the case too because thankfully M&D made a nice roomy case as their own buds are are quite long).



I have used the CP100z (not CP100) since I first got the MW07Go and found them to fit better for me than the stock tips.  I think based on the dimensions on Amazon, the CP100z might be a bit wider but the same length as the CP100 (but shorter for the medium).  The size charts they have on Amazon are super helpful but the measurements seem all over the place so it is a bit of trial and error and sometimes you need to look across the different models for the right fit (I use CP360s on my MTW instead of the CP100z which I use on the MW07Go).  I typically use medium tips for wired IEM, but, for TWS, I have found large works better for me (mostly because the they sometimes fall out while I am eating and chewing a little too hard on my lunch).


----------



## RemoGaggi

Ultrainferno said:


> That T2000/TWS2000(renamed) is now fully reviewed on HFN: https://www.headfonia.com/tinhifi-tws2000-review/


I still don't understand why UV sterilizing is needed if you're not sharing the earbuds with others.  Are people suddenly getting ear infections from TWS?  What am I missing with the UV light feature?


----------



## jant71

RemoGaggi said:


> I still don't understand why UV sterilizing is needed if you're not sharing the earbuds with others.  Are people suddenly getting ear infections from TWS?  What am I missing with the UV light feature?



Just marketing and trying to take advantage of the situation. Makes case bigger which we don't want. Makes them cost more which we don't want. We have gotten along fine with our earphones for years and don't need this now. Why sit around waiting for a UV cycle. When you can clean, sterilize, and dry your stuff in under a minute. I would think to most this idea has more drawbacks than anything.


----------



## Luke Skywalker

Caipirina said:


> I actually already have ... let me count ... 5 ANC sets ... always curious what else is out there and when it gets better ... I happen to have those Edifiers waiting unopened at home  (they arrived late, just after I left for the summer) .. now I need to look into what those 20decibels are ... (the same / similar as the TOZO?)
> 
> IMHO for me the apple airpods still have the best / most immediate WOW effect when it comes to ANC ... the Sony are more fickle and need a lot of time trying with different tips (this is why I was initially less than impressed when I had a chance to try them in-store in Japan. The APP on the other hand, also tried instore, and immediate 'Woah!')


This might sound ridiculous... I'd buy the Airpods tomorrow if they didn't have that stupid looking stick on the bottom and were the same form factor as, say the Nuarl's.  I don't know why they have to have that


----------



## mthaynes

UV sterilization / drying is only applicable if you are wearing for extended periods - like a hearing aide - or if you are wearing when working out - preparation or you are susceptible to ear infections.   Bacteria can build up on the IEM and cause ear infections.  Dryers and UV kits have been around for years and predate COVID.  you should check with the IEM manufacture to see if UV / Dryers since they can damage anti-bacterial coatings that may already be applied to the IEM or damage the drivers in the IEM.  ESP America for example uses a nano coating to prevent bacteria and dryers / UV can damage this coating.

most UV kits sold today do nothing to prevent / kill COVID.  to kill really nasty stuff you need UV-C.  UV-C is nasty light.  it is very strong and can cause skin and vision issues.  best not to play with it unless you understand UV-C. 

using alcohol wipes can also destroy coatings and finishes.  unless you have a need best just to clean off with a microfiber and store in a well ventilated area.  most cases are too compact for ventilated storage.  best to just leave in the open after a wipe with a microfiber.  wash the microfiber when needed.


----------



## webvan

Ordered the Tronsmart Apollo Bold on Amazon to see how they would work for me as the existing feedback was not very conclusive on fit, isolation or ANC. Well they are going back, the first problem is the fit/isolation, even with extensive tip rolling I've come to the conclusion that their design is not able to offer the strong passive isolation I've come to expect from TWEs (other than those designed to stay aware like the X12) and is provided by the Amazon Echobuds, MTW2s, Bomaker SiFi II or Tozo NC9. I'm not sure why, possibly the strange oval shape of the ports (exactly the same as on the TaoTronics wired ANC buds from 2018) or the earbud style rounded part. It's not a bad thing for SQ as that can give some airiness and the sound is indeed pleasant enough with impactful bass but passive isolation suffers. ANC does help mitigate this but the overall passive+ANC isolation is way behind what the Echobuds or MTW2 offer and even the passive only isolation of the SiFI II or the passive+weaksauce ANC isolation of the Tozo NC9. On top of that ANC on the Bold adds a strong bass emphasis that is frankly unpleasant even for an "bass head". Maybe that can be fixed by upcoming firmware upgrades as I understand an app is coming that will allow that. I need to spend more time with the ambient setting but it appears to be decent and certainly a lot better than on the Tozo NC9.

I'd also like to comment on the so-called "wow" factor of the ANC on some TWEs, like the APP or to a lesser extent of the XM3s or Libratone Track Air+, sure it's impressive but that's mainly because its passive isolation is poor and at the end of the day what matters is the overall passive+ANC isolation. And that's not getting into the "warbly" SQ of the APP


----------



## Shadowclash10

Luke Skywalker said:


> This might sound ridiculous... I'd buy the Airpods tomorrow if they didn't have that stupid looking stick on the bottom and were the same form factor as, say the Nuarl's.  I don't know why they have to have that


I can see why you would say that (I've 100% sworn off stem-based TWS), though I would personally still not get them because: they are Apple (lol, only brand prejudice I have), they do not have a black color, really limited controls, and their relatively poor battery life.


----------



## Gordilocks

Shadowclash10 said:


> I can see why you would say that (I've 100% sworn off stem-based TWS), though I would personally still not get them because: they are Apple (lol, only brand prejudice I have), they do not have a black color, really limited controls, and their relatively poor battery life.



I had resisted for so long because of the stem as well. In the end, they had the most natural sounding mic and killed the background the best.


----------



## DigDub

And... Another soundpeats. This time it's the true free 2. It's based on the QCY T1C which was one of the early affordable tws earbuds available. It retains the fun big bass sound of the T1C which makes listening to it very enjoyable. Treble and mids are clear and coherent. It also retains the 4hr playback time of the T1C.

The things that has changed are the buttons. The T1C had a easy to click plastic button, the true free 2 has its button under a rubber cover which makes pressing a tad harder, presumably to make it ipx7, up from the ipx4 of the T1C. The true free 2 also has 2 major usability improvements from the T1C, it now has volume control and is able to use either side of the earbuds independently. Soundpeats has also added wing options for a more secure fit.


----------



## erockg

Shadowclash10 said:


> Has anyone seen that Shure's MMCX TWS adapter was recalled? Lucky people... they get a $100 Shure gift card for their troubles on-top of their refund... I wish I had bought one


Yes, I returned mine to Amazon in April and received an Amazon gift card for $100 a few weeks later.  They were great, but with issues.  The gift card was a nice surprise.


----------



## chinmie

DigDub said:


> Soundpeats truegine 3 se.
> 
> In its case.
> 
> ...



so how do the truengine 3se and the truefree 2 compares? do they worth their price?


----------



## erockg (Jul 28, 2020)

Luke Skywalker said:


> This might sound ridiculous... I'd buy the Airpods tomorrow if they didn't have that stupid looking stick on the bottom and were the same form factor as, say the Nuarl's.  I don't know why they have to have that


Get them from Colorware like I did.  I have them in Matte Black and it makes a HUGE different.  Yes, it'll cost, but it was worth it to me instead of having Q-tips dangle out of my ears when on work calls.


----------



## DigDub

chinmie said:


> so how do the truengine 3se and the truefree 2 compares? do they worth their price?


I actually like the truefree 2 more. The sound from top to bottom gels better and is more coherent. The truegine 3se has a muddier and boomier bass while the truefree 2 has a very fluid and fun bass, akin to turning up the clear bass on the Sony wf-1000xm3. I feel both are worth their price, as most soundpeats products aren't too expensive anyway.


----------



## TheLionelHutz

TheLionelHutz said:


> Alright, some more on sound impressions on the Astrotec S90 Pros.  I've been listening to them exclusively (and a lot) since Friday afternoon.
> 
> After some tip-rolling, I found that some S/M tips from my SoundCore Life P2 provide the most comfortable fit and seal (_*super weird*_--with the Life P2 tips on, the left one seats and charges in the case, _but the right one doesn't_. What the????).  I also prefer the fit without the fins.  Contrary to my earlier impressions, these actually are smaller in the ear than my Model X+, but they don't have as organic/ergonomic a fit.  They are comfortable and small, but not as comfortable as the Model X+.  But I don't mind it.
> 
> ...



Ya'll, does a set TWS based on the QC3020 usually have multi-point when in mono mode?  Because these Astrotecs do!

I have 2 phones, and I've connected the S90s to both, but usually only when one of them has Bluetooth off entirely.  Just now I popped the Left one in and forgot to turn off BT on Phone 1 -- the bud automatically paired to Phone 1 (last used), even though I wanted to use Phone 2.  So I went to BT settings on Phone 2 and manually connected to the S90 L.  It didn't drop the connection to Phone 1, and when I adjusted the volume on Phone 2, the volume slider on Phone 1 appeared and also moved.  Suspicious, I played a track on Phone 1, and it played. I stopped it, and played a track on Phone 2 - and it played!  I started playing a song on Phone 1, then paused it and made a call from Phone 2, and the bud picked up the call immediately!

Am I confused? I didn't think the QC3020 supported this??


----------



## helmutcheese (Jul 28, 2020)

I've had my Soundpeats Force HD's connected to phone and PC at same time, think its a glitch when I try to connect to PC after I have powered off while they were connected to phone so I end up with the Voice part controlling my phone and audio/music part on PC.

It can also happen the other way around too and then you know it as its walkie talkie quality in windows.


----------



## logiatype (Jul 28, 2020)

helmutcheese said:


> I've had my Soundpeats Force HD's connected to phone and PC at same time, think its a glitch when I try to connect to PC after I have powered off while they were connected to phone so I end up with the Voice part controlling my phone and audio/music part on PC.
> 
> It can happen he other way around too and then you know it as its walkie talkie quality in windows.



If you're using Windows 10, it's likely that the voice is set as the default device. You need to set the stereo headset as "Default device" and the Handsfree device as the "Default Communications device".
Select the device you want, then click the down arrow and select what you want to assign.





In my screen shot, I have my X3's connected to my phone and PC but use the speakers as default audio.


----------



## Shadowclash10

erockg said:


> Yes, I returned mine to Amazon in April and received an Amazon gift card for $100 a few weeks later.  They were great, but with issues.  The gift card was a nice surprise.


Look, you got $100 free


----------



## BigZ12

erockg said:


> Get them from Colorware like I did.  I have them in Matte Black and it makes a HUGE different.  Yes, it'll cost, but it was worth it to me instead of having Q-tips dangle out of my ears when on work calls.


How did you mount a Spinfit tip on the APPs?


----------



## helmutcheese

logiatype said:


> If you're using Windows 10, it's likely that the voice is set as the default device. You need to set the stereo headset as "Default device" and the Handsfree device as the "Default Communications device".
> Select the device you want, then click the down arrow and select what you want to assign.
> 
> 
> ...




They are set correctly but you cannot have full bandwidth with 2 devices (even though Bluetooth has had enough for a while now, AFAIR BT 3.0 EDR) it will appear once as its proper device type and a second time as mic/communication device in both the Playback and Recording Tabs. 

MS really should modernise that setting in Windows.

If I only connect to PC its fine and I get 16bit 41khz with aptX (they are aptXHD but Windows is not).


----------



## logiatype

helmutcheese said:


> They are set correctly but you cannot have full bandwidth with 2 devices (even though Bluetooth has had enough for a while now, AFAIR BT 3.0 EDR) it will appear once as its proper device type and a second time as mic/communication device in both the Playback and Recording Tabs.



I don't get your statement. Your initial post said you get HFP on windows and Stereo on phone.
What do you mean by full bandwidth on 2 devices?


----------



## assassin10000 (Jul 28, 2020)

BigZ12 said:


> How did you mount a Spinfit tip on the APPs?



Probably a pair of aftermarket tips with foam/silicone removed.

Here's some APP foams I bought. The foam comes right off the core with ease.


----------



## erockg (Jul 28, 2020)

BigZ12 said:


> How did you mount a Spinfit tip on the APPs?


It was a happy accident.  I bought these https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B085M2TDJN/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o03_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1 and the mounts turned the tips into regular earbud tips.  Love it!


----------



## BigZ12

erockg said:


> It was a happy accident.  I bought these https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B085M2TDJN/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o03_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1 and the mounts turned the tips into regular earbud tips. Love it!


Your APPs are REALLY cool


----------



## actorlife

Peddler said:


> I think you will love them - I certainly do.


Man they are incredible in SQ. I think they will be my favorites. Tevi, ofusho, Anbes 359, Spunky beats and Tranya T2(still a bit pissed on only 4hrs but they were only 19 so forgiven) basically  have the same sig, although the Tevi are the clearest in treble(non sibilant and no shrill) and great tighter bass. Glad I got a great deal on the Tevi. I don’t think I’d pay $89 even though they are well worth it. No more TWS for now.


----------



## Shadowclash10

actorlife said:


> Man they are incredible in SQ. I think they will be my favorites. Tevi, ofusho, Anbes 359, Spunky beats and Tranya T2(still a bit pissed on only 4hrs but they were only 19 so forgiven) basically  have the same sig, although the Tevi are the clearest in treble(non sibilant and no shrill) and great tighter bass. Glad I got a great deal on the Tevi. I don’t think I’d pay $89 even though they are well worth it. No more TWS for now.


Nice! What did you get the Tevis for? "No more TWS for now." Best quote ever - a dream that will never come true for most of us


----------



## Shadowclash10 (Jul 28, 2020)

Alright, ordered the Enacfire E60s - should come Wednesday, and I'll do my bets to post out-of-the-box impressions Thursday. Funnily enough, they are popular on Amazon, but there are no Head-fi reviews of them. 8hrs+40hrs, Type C, IPX8, wireless charging, full controls, and CvC 8.0 for phone calls.

*EDIT: *Forgot to mention, the only possible concern I can see already is that their eartips are of an abnormal design - prob not compatible with some aftermarket tips. Oh, and Scarbir gave them 4.5 stars - pretty good. Down to $35 on Amazon w/coupon.


----------



## actorlife

Shadowclash10 said:


> Nice! What did you get the Tevis for? "No more TWS for now." Best quote ever - a dream that will never come true for most of us


Well it’s been over a year since I bought any TWS. Tevi were $68. I had to jump on it because I had been wanting them for over a year. They are a special TWS. I have over 12 TWS, so I’m good for now. I do check in now and then though. Still testing the TWS sport clips. I should have enough burn in by Thursday. If no good back they go dang it. Raha


----------



## Shadowclash10

actorlife said:


> Well it’s been over a year since I bought any TWS. Tevi were $68. I had to jump on it because I had been wanting them for over a year. They are a special TWS. I have over 12 TWS, so I’m good for now. I do check in now and then though. Still testing the TWS sport clips. I should have enough burn in by Thursday. If no good back they go dang it. Raha


LOL, gosh. I can understand why you would have 12 pairs of TWS, and 9 headphones, and even 8 earphones, but WHY do you have 6+ daps?? Like really


----------



## bronco1015

I'm kind of interested in the AKG N400, but not for $189 i'm seeing on Amazon U.s. What's the cheapest you've seen them fore and where?


----------



## clerkpalmer

bronco1015 said:


> I'm kind of interested in the AKG N400, but not for $189 i'm seeing on Amazon U.s. What's the cheapest you've seen them fore and where?


These cost even more on ebay. So its amazon or bust in the US.


----------



## assassin10000

clerkpalmer said:


> These cost even more on ebay. So its amazon or bust in the US.



^ this.

I've also not seen it anywhere else than amazon or ebay for less.


----------



## tgx78 (Jul 29, 2020)

I bit the bullet and bought the N400 from Amazon Canada for CDN$259 (US$195).
I am glad I did, it sounds noticeably better than the T1X, Truedots, or GT1 Plus that I have.


----------



## VICosPhi

AKG N400 on Amazon are the international version so I am pretty sure the warranty won't be valid in US. Also the single charge capacity of charging case is keeping me away from those.


----------



## stephenlee2801

erockg said:


> It was a happy accident.  I bought these https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B085M2TDJN/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o03_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1 and the mounts turned the tips into regular earbud tips.  Love it!


Thanks for sharing this! I've been looking for an alternative eartip solution for the APPs for a while. The fit from the stock tips are okay but it feels as though I'm between sizes. This is a great solution.

Also, the colorware looks great! I don't love the eartip look of the APPs but it's an acceptable trade off for the mic quality on calls. This fixes that issue


----------



## assassin10000 (Jul 29, 2020)

If anyone in the U.S. wants a pair of those mounts/adapters for their APP's, let me know. (edit: for free, maybe something for shipping?)

I have 2 pairs of them I won't be using.


----------



## baskingshark

Seems TRN is releasing a new BT device: https://www.facebook.com/groups/audioreviews/permalink/4276192155754396/

Called TRN BT20S Pro.

I was quite happy with their BT20 and BT20S, so can't wait to see how this one turns out.
Hope they also fixed their QC issues this time.


----------



## DynamicEars

baskingshark said:


> Seems TRN is releasing a new BT device: https://www.facebook.com/groups/audioreviews/permalink/4276192155754396/
> 
> Called TRN BT20S Pro.
> 
> ...



Wow that a charging case!! Auto on when taking of the case = Auto win 
Its a hassle free experience. Holding buttons for 3 seconds is really annoying when you just listen for a while.

And seems like modular connector? If they put modular 2 pins and mmcx connector into the package and swappable, its a really smart way


----------



## baskingshark (Jul 29, 2020)

DynamicEars said:


> Wow that a charging case!! Auto on when taking of the case = Auto win
> Its a hassle free experience. Holding buttons for 3 seconds is really annoying when you just listen for a while.
> 
> And seems like modular connector? If they put modular 2 pins and mmcx connector into the package and swappable, its a really smart way



Ya the charging case is a good idea. And ya it looks like the modular connector is to interchange 2 pin/MMCX (I'm not sure if u have to buy separate parts though). But modular would be a good idea to replace parts that have wear and tear.

Excited to see this one, let's hope the specs are good.


----------



## DynamicEars

baskingshark said:


> Ya the charging case is a good idea. And ya it looks like the modular connector is to interchange 2 pin/MMCX (I'm not sure if u have to buy separate parts though). But modular would be a good idea to replace parts that have wear and tear.
> 
> Excited to see this one, let's hope the specs are good.



And hope the price is good too.
If the price is good, batt life is good, connection is good, coming with 2 type 2pins and mmcx connectors, wow solid buy. Definitely will getting this for upgrade to my BT20 and BT20S. 
Btw BT20S hissing on H40 is very audible. Hope they fix this too.


----------



## DynamicEars

Oh and hopefully the IEM shell space is big enough to put giant potato IEM such as H40 and i3


----------



## assassin10000

Here's to hoping it carries over the improvements from Fiio's UTWS1 version (volume control and less hiss). That and it has wireless charging for the case.

I like the modular connector. Be sweet if it used a standard .78mm 2 pin so we could make our own adapters too. I was considering making my BT20S modular using MMCX connectors.


It would have been nice if they placed them in the case like the ibasso one. Instead of as pictured with right and left sides flip flopped.


----------



## Nimweth (Jul 29, 2020)

I recently received the Mifo 05 TWS earbud for review. Here's what I think:

Introduction
The Mifo 05 is a TWS (True Wireless Stereo) Bluetooth 5.0 earbud featuring a long play time (7.5 hours per charge and a total of 100 hours from the charging dock). The driver is a 6mm dynamic unit.

What's in the box?
The Mifo 05 comes attractively packaged in a rectangular silver grey box with a colour image of the contents on the front. Inside you will find:

* Mifo 05 earbuds
* Charging case (2600 mAh)
* 7 further sets of eartips (1 set pre-fitted)
* Micro USB charging cable
* User guide
* Promotional brochure

Description
The earbuds are well-constructed from metal alloy and robust plastic. They have a textured silver finish, a Mifo logo in the centre and a small button on each side. Underneath, the brass-coloured contacts for charging can be seen. The left bud has a blue border and the right bud has a red border. Each earbud contains a 60mAh battery, enough for a claimed 7.5 hours play time. The 2600 mAh charging case is also well made from metal and doubles as a storage case when the buds are not in use. A total of 15 charges is specified. The buds fitted snugly in my ears using the pre-fitted tips and remained secure. A good isolation was obtained.

Operation
Enable Bluetooth on your device. Remove the buds from the case and they go into pairing mode immediately. Select "mifo 05" as the paired device in Bluetooth settings and you're good to go! I tested the buds with a Huawei smartphone, as well as Xduoo X20, Hifi Walker H2 and Sony A15 DAPs. Connection and re-connection was very efficient. Various combinations of button presses are used for volume control and track access. I managed around 6 hours on a charge but this was at a fairly high volume, so I would consider the claim of 7.5 hours per charge valid. The connection was solid and I managed a range of around 6 metres before the signal began to break up.

Sound quality
The Mifo 05 produced a warm and attractive sound profile. Running a frequency sweep revealed an elevated mid-bass, a rise in the lower treble followed by a more pronounced dip, and a peak in the upper treble which added some brightness.

The general impression was of a gentle V shape, with somewhat recessed lower mids and a slightly soft treble tuning with some added brightness in the extreme HF. The impressive soundstage was one of the best features, being wide and spacious. This made music relaxing and enjoyable with no harshness. I obtained adequate volume with my smartphone but had to increase the volume considerably on my Xduoo DAP. The buds did have enough resolution to highlight the difference in quality between this, the two other DAPs and my smartphone. I found the best results were achieved with the Sony DAP so used this for the testing.

Bass
The bass did deliver some good low end rumble and the focus was on the mid-bass which was prominent with a small amount of bass bleed. Kiraly and Crevier's "Music from the Sky" is an electronic spacemusic piece with a powerful sub-bass element. This came over well but did lose a little in immediacy with the definition just a little softer than ideal. The lowest notes were discernible but sounded slightly distant and lacked some detail. This was also the case with classical music with the lower strings and brass in E. J. Moeran's "Farrago" sounding a bit hazy and missing the requisite "bite". However, this did make for a very relaxing and slightly romantic presentation, which was very pleasant.

Midrange
The lower midrange was at a lower level than the upper bass and was characterised by the broad staging which lent the sound atmosphere and gave a kind of "soft focus" effect. Detail was softened and separation was a bit vague but there was an attractive musical quality from the extra warmth in the lower mids deriving from the bass bleed, endowing this region with an attractive "bloom" which contributed to the wide  staging. The midrange was somewhat recessed, with Al Stewart's voice in "Time Passages" coming over just a little distant rather than being projected and sounding warmer than usual. The guitars and percussion were also slightly subdued. The upper mids were more prominent, with the lead synth in Isao Tomita's "Ave Maria" dominating the presentation and leading to the delicate counterpoint being less easy to discern. However, the imaging was very good on this track with the electronic effects occupying every part of the stage.

Treble
The treble did lose a little energy and detail as evidenced in Andreas Vollenweider's "Behind the Gardens" where the harp strings could have been a bit brighter and crisper in tone, and the transients were a little bit blunted. The staging, however, was very three-dimensional with sounds even coming from behind my head! The complex high frequency sequenced parts in "Delphi Dream" from David Wahler's "Antiquus" had a touch less energy than usual, but the stereo imaging on this track was excellent with the movement very well portrayed. Overall the lower treble was quite lively but there seemed to be a dip in the mid-treble which gradually recovered as the frequency increased with the higher treble possessing some much-needed sparkle.

Summary
The Mifo 05 is a very good product and "does what it says on the tin", delivering on its promises and scoring well in every department. It is well presented with good accessories, works efficiently and is simple to operate. It is well designed and made, has a good battery life and is also very comfortable to wear. Perhaps the only minor  criticism would be in sonic terms where a little more detail and energy in the treble would have been appreciated.

The sound is relaxing, gentle and musical. It has an impressive 3-D soundstage and excellent imaging. It has a kind of "vintage" or "analogue" quality, and the nearest in sound to the Mifo 05 in wired earphones would be the Blon BL-03 or the new CCA CA16, with their warm presentation (which is praise indeed!) but the Mifo 05 just falls short in detail retrieval.

In ultimate terms, it does lack a little clarity and transient attack, but this is not surprising when listening to a compressed signal (Bluetooth) versus high-res files directly wired. This slight softness may also be the result of only having the A2DP codec. If the higher resolution apt-x codec had been available, I would have expected a more lively sound with more detail. The new mifo 05 plus does include apt-x and has a balanced armature driver so it should address these concerns.

The sound did improve after a reasonable period of burn-in and the choice of source did notably affect the presentation with my Sony A15 DAP delivering a more impactful sound which really suited the '05s. This was mainly due to a higher volume available via Bluetooth on this device, as I found the earbuds did perform better with a robust signal.

The Mifo 05 is a very good product. It has an enjoyable and relaxing sound quality and a very good soundstage and it is very well designed and made. The performance of the 6mm dynamic driver is praiseworthy and the minor issues with the treble are a fair trade-off for the convenience and freedom of wireless operation.


----------



## Shadowclash10

baskingshark said:


> Seems TRN is releasing a new BT device: https://www.facebook.com/groups/audioreviews/permalink/4276192155754396/
> 
> Called TRN BT20S Pro.
> 
> ...


These look super promising, like everyone else said.I just hope these will cost $50-70, and not $150-200, like iBasso and Shure.


----------



## Shadowclash10

DynamicEars said:


> Wow that a charging case!! Auto on when taking of the case = Auto win
> Its a hassle free experience. Holding buttons for 3 seconds is really annoying when you just listen for a while.
> 
> And seems like modular connector? If they put modular 2 pins and mmcx connector into the package and swappable, its a really smart way


It might also be touch? Not sure. Buttons are glossy, like touch systems, but they are also kinda small to be touch.


----------



## chinmie

baskingshark said:


> Seems TRN is releasing a new BT device: https://www.facebook.com/groups/audioreviews/permalink/4276192155754396/
> 
> Called TRN BT20S Pro.
> 
> ...



this looks like an insta-buy for me.. just hope it has volume control, or better yet an output gain control


----------



## DynamicEars

Shadowclash10 said:


> It might also be touch? Not sure. Buttons are glossy, like touch systems, but they are also kinda small to be touch.



I cant be sure also but from the picture above and correlation with older model BT20 and BT20S that i have, they also using physical buttons with similar placements.
I dont have complain with physical button as long as they are easy to press. Touch sensor also acceptable as they will be positioned behind our ears, not like real TWS that can be accidentally touched when we try to get decent fit.


----------



## DynamicEars

chinmie said:


> this looks like an insta-buy for me.. just hope it has volume control, or better yet an output gain control



I know judging from your BT20 and 20s collections. 😆


----------



## assassin10000

chinmie said:


> this looks like an insta-buy for me.. just hope it has volume control, or better yet an output gain control





DynamicEars said:


> I know judging from your BT20 and 20s collections. 😆



I'm almost in the same boat lol.


----------



## actorlife (Jul 29, 2020)

Shadowclash10 said:


> LOL, gosh. I can understand why you would have 12 pairs of TWS, and 9 headphones, and even 8 earphones, but WHY do you have 6+ daps?? Like really


Most of them are old and I wouldn’t get nothing for them. I still use the Cowon they at the time were the ones to beat on SQ and still are. Some have features not available anymore. The Cayin is fantastic although you need a amp to get more volume on some low sounding recordings. ICC I use on my audio receiver now and then. I also use it for burnin and use in the car with a Bluetooth speaker. I rotate them all. They all imho have fantastic SQ. The Hidizs AP60 Pro I sold last year. I needed the money to pay bills. Some pics coming soon. Stay tuned!


----------



## bronco1015

clerkpalmer said:


> These cost even more on ebay. So its amazon or bust in the US.


Damn that sucks. not a huge Samsung fan so guess i can wait. IF i didn't already have my mtw2 then maybe.


----------



## Luchyres

I am not able to get super deep into my impressions right now, but I wanted to drop a note:

I am a big fan of the Nuarl line and currently use the N6 as my daily driver. I was curious about the AKG N400 - and so I ordered them....


Initial impressions were good - case was smaller and more premium than I expected. Fit was good, didn't love the stock eartips, but easy swap. 

The sound initially I felt was good, a little sterile (I like some resonance/spaciousness - and this was a little on the clinical side). Touch controls were good. ANC was ANC, (not stunning, but I'd use it). 

The dealbreakers:
1. On calls I sound "muffled and distant" - not very good.
2. Soundcloud, and Tidal showed markedly different quality to the sound - on both iOS and Android (BBKey2). This is a 'real world' use for me in that I listen to a lot of produced music on SC, and it can vary highly in bitrate and production quality - so I need something that can handle even the less polished stuff without sounding like.... welll... flabby. 
The N6 is much better at this. The bass on the AKG N400 when stressed either by poor production, the equalizer, or even some Tidal Masters just didn't perform well. It didn't have any presence to really back it up, and ended up feeling flabby.
3. Connection quality - I had a lot of stutters and drop outs due to environmental effects and even when close to the phone. 


The N10 Pro was Nuarl was then announced, which sealed the deal. I need a pair of TWS that handle whatever I throw at them, and the AKG are pretty dang cool, but they underperform for my use case, which is: listening to whatever I want and adjusting the sound to my ideal, answering calls, and exercise.

Sent the AKG back, waiting for the N10 Pro.


----------



## Caipirina

Caipirina said:


> Speaking of cheap ANC ... here is a Libertone clone with a 40%off coupon ... one review is pretty damning ...
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Those arrived surprisingly quick ... and what a shame, what wasted potential: These have one of the best fits I had from TWS straight out of the box in a looooong time. They rest nicely in the ear like the APP, and that triangle stem does NOT turn out to be an obstacle ...  so far so good.

But, as reviews said, the sound signature is TOO mid forward IMHO, bass can sound distorted (or faint ... it's kinda weird), nothing sparkly in the highs ... 
The ANC get's the 'weak sauce seal of dis-approval' ... it is there but, well, kinda useless .. 
So, despite the nice 40% off coupon ... just to 'have' them, not wasting 45€ ... they are going back ... 

I read that KSOUND is part of the Key-series / Aukey ... and look what the cat dragged in ... an Aukey ANC TWS set  has some similarities, looks like they might fit just as well. So far I could not find any reviews focusing on sound ... guess I have to order and see


----------



## bronco1015

Luchyres said:


> I am not able to get super deep into my impressions right now, but I wanted to drop a note:
> 
> I am a big fan of the Nuarl line and currently use the N6 as my daily driver. I was curious about the AKG N400 - and so I ordered them....
> 
> ...


Thanks for your initial thoughts, yeah i think i'll pass on them then. next 2 i'm likely to buy are the Nuarl N10 and Bose Earbuds 700. Though may not on the latter unless ANC is out of this world, cause they probably won't have aptx. Though the discount i get through work may just put me over the edge.


----------



## voicemaster

baskingshark said:


> Seems TRN is releasing a new BT device: https://www.facebook.com/groups/audioreviews/permalink/4276192155754396/
> 
> Called TRN BT20S Pro.
> 
> ...


Its about time. Will be insta buy for me. I love my bt20 and bt20s but they are not really practical for portable usage imho. You have to press both L and R button for 3 sec to turn them on and you need a splitter/dual cable to charge them.


----------



## logiatype (Jul 29, 2020)

Luchyres said:


> I am not able to get super deep into my impressions right now, but I wanted to drop a note:
> 
> I am a big fan of the Nuarl line and currently use the N6 as my daily driver. I was curious about the AKG N400 - and so I ordered them....
> 
> ...



Honestly I've given up on TWS microphones. I'll get a pair for commuting and stick to wired headsets at home. Waiting for the GBuds Live at the moment.

Can you describe the difference between the Nuarl and the N400 sound? I'm curious about the Nuarl iems but will wait for the N10s (with EQ).


----------



## kmhaynes

After 2 tries at cheap TWS earbuds on Amazon.com, just to see where the technology currently stands, I tried these Beben BT earbuds, and they are fantastic sounding. Definitely full bass, maybe too much, but I EQ all my earphones, so an easy fix for me.  With the correct tips, the isolation is actually pretty good -- I use them while mowing and they work great.

https://www.amazon.com/Bluetooth-Im...riculares-micrófono/dp/B0836CLXR6/ref=sr_1_11


----------



## eiraku (Jul 29, 2020)

baskingshark said:


> Seems TRN is releasing a new BT device: https://www.facebook.com/groups/audioreviews/permalink/4276192155754396/
> 
> Called TRN BT20S Pro.
> 
> ...



Charging case YIPPIE! Guess TRN WAS listening to me (and probably others) whine 🤣

No more wierd split cable charging puts this is on my list for SURE. Finally my 'ol trusty V90s are gonna get a chance to be brought back into my daily rotation again... after being backbenched for so long because of how unwieldy the BT3S has become in comparison to my TWSes. And that modular connector thing looks inspired TBH (finally, just a bloody connector to change between MMCX and 2-pin).

Hopefully these have TWS+ baked into them too (+ all the associated codecs) but at this point that charging case alone already makes them an instant buy for me 🤣

Question now tho, when?


----------



## Shadowclash10

eiraku said:


> Charging case YIPPIE! Guess TRN WAS listening to me (and probably others) whine 🤣
> 
> No more wierd split cable charging puts this is on my list for SURE. Finally my 'ol trusty V90s are gonna get a chance to be brought back into my daily rotation again... after being backbenched for so long because of how unwieldy the BT3S has become in comparison to my TWSes. And that modular connector thing looks inspired TBH (finally, just a bloody connector to change between MMCX and 2-pin).
> 
> ...


Yep. As long as these are <$100, have good battery life (which they should have considering their size), and aren't just limited to, say, SBC and AAC (lol), these are a buy for most of us. 

What would be nice to see down the line is a compact way of doing this: not over ear ear-hooks, but just a super small BT module.


----------



## actorlife (Jul 29, 2020)

Here they all are and no digs or scratches. I take care of my stuff.  These are in my bag.  All alcohol treated before going in case.  All the backups I would need in case batteries are going low. I don’t carry no charging cases like before they stay home. The duster is always a must have.


----------



## Shadowclash10

actorlife said:


> Here they all are and no digs or scratches. I take care of my stuff.  These are in my bag. All alcohol treated before going in case.  All the backups I would need in case batteries are going low. I don’t carry no charging cases like before they stay home. The duster is always a must have.



What do you DO with all those? XD


----------



## actorlife

Shadowclash10 said:


> What do you DO with all those? XD


I forgot to include the Syllables(they were 8hrs and now 4hrs. I use them for YouTube mostly as the treble is rolled off) I use them all and rotate. Although the Tevi will cause jealousy from my other TWS’s Raha.


----------



## logiatype

Shadowclash10 said:


> Yep. As long as these are <$100, have good battery life (which they should have considering their size), and aren't just limited to, say, SBC and AAC (lol), these are a buy for most of us.
> 
> What would be nice to see down the line is a compact way of doing this: not over ear ear-hooks, but just a super small BT module.



Do these have an app/EQ?


----------



## eiraku (Jul 29, 2020)

logiatype said:


> Do these have an app/EQ?



The ones that came before did not, and I
really don't expect this one to either. But considering you can just pop in other IEMs with a completely different tuning altogether...

That said, the "Wavelet" thing (or V4A's internal EQ) should work fine with these in a pinch methinks.

Also, a bit off topic but Imma thinking that ambient is a lot less important on these as you can just pop a side out while it remains hooked on your ear. So yeah.

Qi on that case would be killer tho, but yeah, like many others I'm prolly getting this one regardless (especially considering I already have a nice stable of TRN IEMs to use with it).


----------



## Shadowclash10

eiraku said:


> The ones that came before did not, and I
> really don't expect this one to either. But considering you can just pop in other IEMs with a completely different tuning altogether...
> 
> That said, the "Wavelet" thing (or V4A's internal EQ) should work fine with these in a pinch methinks.
> ...


The popping one earbud out is what ppl did with the older versions, I think. As long as they have good battery life, are relatively affordable, and no QC problems, count me in!


----------



## eiraku (Jul 29, 2020)

Shadowclash10 said:


> The popping one earbud out is what ppl did with the older versions, I think. As long as they have good battery life, are relatively affordable, and no QC problems, count me in!



TBH, looking at the battery life of the prior ones, I'd be plenty happy already if they could stick with the 8hr rating of the BT20s (even if in practical use that should run closer to, eyyyy, 5-6hrs depending on IEM used).

Hiss is more of a concern tho. TRN has never really had a good history with eliminating that (unless the IEM you paired it with is less prone to hiss, like the V90s).

But hey, 3rd gen. Hopefully they've learned their lessons eyyyy. Plus, the BT3S was at least less hiss prone than the BT3 so that's that.


----------



## Luke Skywalker

mthaynes said:


> UV sterilization / drying is only applicable if you are wearing for extended periods - like a hearing aide - or if you are wearing when working out - preparation or you are susceptible to ear infections.   Bacteria can build up on the IEM and cause ear infections.  Dryers and UV kits have been around for years and predate COVID.  you should check with the IEM manufacture to see if UV / Dryers since they can damage anti-bacterial coatings that may already be applied to the IEM or damage the drivers in the IEM.  ESP America for example uses a nano coating to prevent bacteria and dryers / UV can damage this coating.
> 
> most UV kits sold today do nothing to prevent / kill COVID.  to kill really nasty stuff you need UV-C.  UV-C is nasty light.  it is very strong and can cause skin and vision issues.  best not to play with it unless you understand UV-C.
> 
> using alcohol wipes can also destroy coatings and finishes.  unless you have a need best just to clean off with a microfiber and store in a well ventilated area.  most cases are too compact for ventilated storage.  best to just leave in the open after a wipe with a microfiber.  wash the microfiber when needed.


That's really interesting info about UV-C. I can't imagine going to all that trouble just to stick earbuds in my ear.  Of course I'm the guy who eats the cookie that fell on the ground


----------



## Luke Skywalker

Shadowclash10 said:


> LOL, gosh. I can understand why you would have 12 pairs of TWS, and 9 headphones, and even 8 earphones, but WHY do you have 6+ daps?? Like really


Yeah I just have a HiBy R6 Pro.  I probably won't get another DAP any time soon but maybe a desktop amp...  Truthfully though, the R6 drives my Audeze LCD-2s and obviously has no problems with Lola IEM's so I'm not sure why I'd buy anything else at this point


----------



## assassin10000

Luke Skywalker said:


> That's really interesting info about UV-C. I can't imagine going to all that trouble just to stick earbuds in my ear.  Of course I'm the guy who eats the cookie that fell on the ground



10 second rule?


----------



## eiraku (Jul 29, 2020)

assassin10000 said:


> 10 second rule?



In the current global situation? I'd dunk that cookie in 75% Food-Grade Ethanol first TBH 🤣

Also yeah, I'm pretty sure UV that's not UV-C will do jack crap to viruses to begin with. And UV-C (as someone here has mentioned before) can end up doing some pretty nasty stuff to you really, if you don't know what you're doing.

(This coming from a guy running IPX rated TWS simply because he can douse it in liquid sanitizer if he needs to - tho TBH I normally stick to simple AlcPads unless they fell into the drain or something 🤣)


----------



## Peddler

I've just posted a review of the Tronsmart Apollo's 

https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/tronsmart-apollo-tws.24519/reviews

Unreal bass. I really wanted to like them but, apart from perhaps late night listening in bed at super-low volumes, I just couldn't handle the bass.  I'm clearly just too fragile.


----------



## Shadowclash10

Peddler said:


> I've just posted a review of the Tronsmart Apollo's
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/tronsmart-apollo-tws.24519/reviews
> 
> Unreal bass. I really wanted to like them but, apart from perhaps late night listening in bed at super-low volumes, I just couldn't handle the bass.  I'm clearly just too fragile.


Looks like majority opinion is don't buy. ANC isn't that great, nor is SQ, etc.


----------



## erockg

VICosPhi said:


> AKG N400 on Amazon are the international version so I am pretty sure the warranty won't be valid in US. Also the single charge capacity of charging case is keeping me away from those.


I added an Asurion Extended 3-Year Warranty to mine for $21.99 through Amazon to be safe.


----------



## eiraku

Shadowclash10 said:


> Looks like majority opinion is don't buy. ANC isn't that great, nor is SQ, etc.



Seems like. I really was aiming for them to be my first ANC set if the SQ was decent too.

Oh well, at least the BT20 Pros are coming 🤤


----------



## webvan

Shadowclash10 said:


> Looks like majority opinion is don't buy. ANC isn't that great, nor is SQ, etc.



The ANC isn't bad, it's just that the passive isolation is poor (and it's not a fit problem) due to the design that is closer to earbuds than IEMs. It's disappointing because many of the recent offerings have had great passive isolation, like the SiFI II (design used elsewhere too now) or the Tozo NC9. Well there is a problem with ANC in that turning it on boosts bass level even higher than they are by default and it's really overwhelming, even for a bass head !


----------



## Sam L (Jul 29, 2020)

Been using my Fiil CC's for running (no thump). Previously, I used the mifo 02 (terrible for music, only good for podcasts). I might end up staying with the mifo's only because they secure a tad better in my ears than the CC. The other reason I pulled the trigger on the CC was the mic quality per a review stating they were excellent for calls. They are ok, not excellent. I might concede that they are pretty good for calls, but my sony xm3 is still better and the APP remains king.

I was surprised at the SQ of the CC's, excellent for their category (ala old air pods / semi in-ear). Overall the design on the CC's are awesome. Best feel in hand over all the other TWS's I've tried or owned. Refer to scarbir's review for design details.

One thing to note, the upper mids / treble is way over emphasized. eq'ing helps a bit but they are definitely on the lean side in terms of sound. Excellent clarity, though and surprising amount of bass despite not being a full in-ear design.

My graphs are terribly* inaccurate below 50hz and above 5k*. Still waiting for my iec711 coupler to arrive.


----------



## actorlife (Jul 30, 2020)

My overview on the Losei x12:
I got the Losei x12 for riding my bike and running. The rubber hooks are comfy and won’t clash with any glasses worn. A big plus for me. When I got them they needed some burn in time. Playing music for about four days. The Bass is alot more punchy and not boomy or distorted. These are neutral and slight roll off on the highs, so if you don’t enjoy bright TWS these will be a great option. I tested the battery and the claim of 5hrs and 30 min from Losei is spot on. Bravo. These are Type C and charge in an hour. IPX 5, so if sweating or splash in water these can handle it. I don’t use these for phone calls but I bet they sound good. I use my DAP player with flac or high quality MP3 files as my source. I got the grey color and even looks better in person.

Pros:
Really Comfy with glasses and haven’t fallen off my ears.
Neutral sound signature with tight Bass
They get loud enough, but I only use 55-65 percent volume to save my hearing.
5hrs and 30min battery
5.0
USB-C
Sweat proof
They don’t stick out alot like most TWS.

Cons:
Just a slight nitpick...
If they were a bit more brighter they’d be even greater, although I do like the SQ after burn-in.

Any questions feel free to ask.


----------



## Shadowclash10

actorlife said:


> My overview on the Losei x12:
> I got the Losei x12 for riding my bike and running. The rubber hooks are comfy and won’t clash with any glasses worn. A big plus for me. When I got them they needed some burn in time. Playing music for about four days. The Bass is alot more punchy and not boomy or distorted. These are neutral and slight roll off on the highs, so if you don’t enjoy bright TWS these will be a great option. I tested the battery and the claim of 5hrs and 30 min from Losei is spot on. Bravo. These are Type C and charge in an hour. IPX 5, so if sweating or splash in water these can handle it. I don’t use these for phone calls but I bet they sound good. I use my DAP player with flac or high quality MP3 files as my source. I got the grey color and even looks better in person.
> 
> Pros:
> ...


You can't detach the earhooks like the Amazfit Powerbuds, right?


----------



## voicemaster

logiatype said:


> Do these have an app/EQ?


Why u need eq to a customizeable bluetooth adapter. If you like bass then just pair them with bass canon iem or vise versa.


----------



## FYLegend

Anyone tried Wavelet EQ with the Sabbat E12 Ultra? The AutoEQ preset opens up the highs and the soundstage sounds more spacious, but in some tracks it sounds very clipped, unless I level down the limiter and check Reduce Clipping. I misplaced the original eartips so I'm using standard (audio-technica) eartips on them for now, the fit is a bit better but still rather loose.  On the Galaxy Buds+, wavelet sounds clean but the lower mids sound thinner.



eiraku said:


> In the current global situation? I'd dunk that cookie in 75% Food-Grade Ethanol first TBH 🤣
> 
> Also yeah, I'm pretty sure UV that's not UV-C will do jack crap to viruses to begin with. And UV-C (as someone here has mentioned before) can end up doing some pretty nasty stuff to you really, if you don't know what you're doing.
> 
> (This coming from a guy running IPX rated TWS simply because he can douse it in liquid sanitizer if he needs to - tho TBH I normally stick to simple AlcPads unless they fell into the drain or something 🤣)


Tronsmart claims to have UV-C and UV-A. On some models UV lights are only restricted to the nozzles of the earbuds. UV-C is only really nasty if you are in the same room with the light turned on. It should be fine in your case. It's not as carcinogenic as UV-A but causes eye and skin damage if you're directly exposed to it.



tgx78 said:


> I bit the bullet and bought the N400 from Amazon Canada for CDN$259 (US$195).
> I am glad I did, it sounds noticeably better than the T1X, Truedots, or GT1 Plus that I have.


Just wondering where you got the T1X and how was the shipping to Vancouver?



Luchyres said:


> I am not able to get super deep into my impressions right now, but I wanted to drop a note:
> 
> I am a big fan of the Nuarl line and currently use the N6 as my daily driver. I was curious about the AKG N400 - and so I ordered them....
> 
> ...



Have you been able to try it with a Windows laptop? After the fiasco with the Buds+, I'm wary about whether SBC codec has been gimped on the N400.


----------



## tgx78

FYLegend said:


> Just wondering where you got the T1X and how was the shipping to Canada?



Amazon dot com and shipped to my mailbox near the border and picked it up during the snow storm last year. 
If you are interested, I am selling mine. PM me.


----------



## actorlife (Jul 29, 2020)

Shadowclash10 said:


> You can't detach the earhooks like the Amazfit Powerbuds, right?


No detachment that see I did try to see if they pull off though. Haven’t tried those but these are so darn comfy. While working out you won’t even notice them. Like I said it’s crucial to do burn-in as the sound improves. Damn can’t believe I’m keeping them all. No more TWS unless 15hrs and 6.0 BT Haha


----------



## logiatype

voicemaster said:


> Why u need eq to a customizeable bluetooth adapter. If you like bass then just pair them with bass canon iem or vise versa.


Yeah that's a great point. Looking forwarded to it.


----------



## Shadowclash10

actorlife said:


> Haven’t tried those but these are so darn comfy. While working out you won’t even notice them. Like I said it’s crucial to do burn-in as the sound improves. Damn can’t believe I’m keeping them all. No more TWS unless 15hrs and 6.0 BT Raha.


What about aptX Adaptive or LDHC?


----------



## Shadowclash10

Yayy!! Enacfire E60s arrived!


----------



## dwells

Ultimately wound up having to send back my FIIL T1Xs. I really loved the sound, but the case was just too much for slim and skinny cut pants - way too much pocket bulge and I could feel it.

Still trying out the Aukey EP-N5 and deciding if I’m keeping them. One thing that bothers me is that the ANC doesn’t seem to be on by default, and it doesn’t remember your last setting. So you have to turn it on manually each time.


----------



## actorlife

Shadowclash10 said:


> What about aptX Adaptive or LDHC?


Nope.


----------



## actorlife

Shadowclash10 said:


> Yayy!! Enacfire E60s arrived!


Waiting on pics and first thoughts.


----------



## Shadowclash10

actorlife said:


> Waiting on pics and first thoughts.


Tomorrow pls . Too tired right now to even unbox, but they look promising on-paper.


----------



## actorlife (Jul 29, 2020)

baskingshark said:


> Seems TRN is releasing a new BT device: https://www.facebook.com/groups/audioreviews/permalink/4276192155754396/
> 
> Called TRN BT20S Pro.
> 
> ...


What are these going for? Facebook link not working for me. How many hours of battery? Aptx I hope. I hope no more than 25$ I always wanted a pair of these, but some peeps had issues with them. My in the draws KZ’s are longing for these.


----------



## baskingshark

actorlife said:


> What are these going for? I hope no more than 25$ I always wanted a pair of these, but some peeps had issues with them. My in the draws KZ’s are longing for these.



Dunno yet, no specs or prices released yet. But the BT20S was going at about $30ish USD on aliexpress so I would assume this newer model will be priced higher. But as per most new releases, the prices will probably drop in a few weeks to months if one is patient.


----------



## chinmie

actorlife said:


> What are these going for? I hope no more than 25$ I always wanted a pair of these, but some peeps had issues with them. My in the draws KZ’s are longing for these.


 what KZ are you planning to use it with? i doubt this new BT20 Pro would be below 25usd, but if you're planning on using hybrid driver KZs just go with the older and cheaper BT20. the BT20S introduces noticeable hiss for hybrids, but works fine with single drivers. it still has noise, but really minimal that you won't be bothered with it


----------



## Shadowclash10

chinmie said:


> what KZ are you planning to use it with? i doubt this new BT20 Pro would be below 25usd, but if you're planning on using hybrid driver KZs just go with the older and cheaper BT20. the BT20S introduces noticeable hiss for hybrids, but works fine with single drivers. it still has noise, but really minimal that you won't be bothered with it


True, it's just that this is made even more attractive cause of the case.


----------



## actorlife

chinmie said:


> what KZ are you planning to use it with? i doubt this new BT20 Pro would be below 25usd, but if you're planning on using hybrid driver KZs just go with the older and cheaper BT20. the BT20S introduces noticeable hiss for hybrids, but works fine with single drivers. it still has noise, but really minimal that you won't be bothered with it


KZ-ZST, ZS3, etc I’ll have to check but I have over 5 KZ’s models. I just can’t remember them right now. A bit tired.


----------



## chinmie

Shadowclash10 said:


> True, it's just that this is made even more attractive cause of the case.



yup, that's why I'll definitely buying this  
i wonder will they also put some of the removable connectors too on the package


----------



## RemoGaggi

dwells said:


> Ultimately wound up having to send back my FIIL T1Xs. I really loved the sound, but the case was just too much for slim and skinny cut pants - way too much pocket bulge.



Alternatively, you could have kept the FIIL and just told everyone you were happy to see them.....


----------



## Tronsmart Official

Shadowclash10 said:


> Looks like majority opinion is don't buy. ANC isn't that great, nor is SQ, etc.


Hi, Shadowclash, 
Different people have differnt opinions about the sound because their listening styles are quite different. Some people like to hear POP, some people like to hear more instrument, they may choose the right tune style device according to their listening style.
About ANC, Apollo Bold uses hybrid active noise cancelling, reduce up to 35dB noise, it is not the best or even cannot compare with those expensive full size headphnes, but if you compare with other TWS ANC earbuds, you will know Apollo's high performance. 
Hope it helps you to understand.
Thanks.


----------



## Caipirina

dwells said:


> Still trying out the Aukey EP-N5 and deciding if I’m keeping them. One thing that bothers me is that the ANC doesn’t seem to be on by default, and it doesn’t remember your last setting. So you have to turn it on manually each time.


Did you write more about the Aukey before? What's the fit and SQ like? 
Mine shall be here by Saturday


----------



## webvan

Tronsmart Official said:


> Hi, Shadowclash,
> Different people have differnt opinions about the sound because their listening styles are quite different. Some people like to hear POP, some people like to hear more instrument, they may choose the right tune style device according to their listening style.
> About ANC, Apollo Bold uses hybrid active noise cancelling, reduce up to 35dB noise, it is not the best or even cannot compare with those expensive full size headphnes, but if you compare with other TWS ANC earbuds, you will know Apollo's high performance.
> Hope it helps you to understand.
> Thanks.


Well people who have done detailed side-by-side comparisons with other available ANC TWEs have found them to be lacking. The Amazon Echo Buds for instance are very close to what the QC25/QC35 offer thanks to their excellent passive isolation that the ANR usefully supplements and the MTW2 are not far behind.
Besides you have not addressed the fact that :
- the passive isolation is poor compared to the Echo Buds, MTW2, or the recent SiFi II and Tozo NC9, there isn't much point having ANC if that prerequisite is not met.
- there is a HUGE bass boost when ANC is activated which makes listening to music unpleasant even if you like bass. Why is that ?
- using the term "hybrid ANC" is confusing, it's just what "normal ANC" is, i.e. feedforward and feedback ANC.


----------



## assassin10000

dwells said:


> Ultimately wound up having to send back my FIIL T1Xs. I really loved the sound, but the case was just too much for slim and skinny cut pants - way too much pocket bulge and I could feel it.
> 
> Still trying out the Aukey EP-N5 and deciding if I’m keeping them. One thing that bothers me is that the ANC doesn’t seem to be on by default, and it doesn’t remember your last setting. So you have to turn it on manually each time.



If you need slim and tiny, I'd recommend you try the Air-XR's. The smallest, slimmest case there is. 

Sound signature is kind of a somewhat warm harman, excellent bass response and a bit of treble roll off up too. I wish I could find an FR measurement of these.

Despite lacking pretty much all the extra features of the LP2, XM3, Buds+, etc. that I've tried. It has managed to remain a favorite, simply due to its organic sound.


----------



## clementpoiret

I just received my appolo bold, I had a coupon so I got them for a better price 
I agree with some reviews saying that there is too much bass, not as bad as I thought but it's true. Fortunately, we'll be able to solve that when we will have the app! I can't use viper4android anymore, so I'll have to wait...
Otherwise, I like the quality of these buds, beside bass the SQ is really good at low volume. Fit is nice, and they are quite comfortable.

ANC is correct, I'll even say that it seems good. I think it's just suffering from the passive isolation, but I'll replace default eartips by foam tips which should clearly improve passive isolation. New eartips + Android App & firmware update (bringing AptX-HD), and I think they'll be awesome


----------



## assassin10000

clementpoiret said:


> I just received my appolo bold, I had a coupon so I got them for a better price
> I agree with some reviews saying that there is too much bass, not as bad as I thought but it's true. Fortunately, we'll be able to solve that when we will have the app! I can't use viper4android anymore, so I'll have to wait...
> Otherwise, I like the quality of these buds, beside bass the SQ is really good at low volume. Fit is nice, and they are quite comfortable.
> 
> ANC is correct, I'll even say that it seems good. I think it's just suffering from the passive isolation, but I'll replace default eartips by foam tips which should clearly improve passive isolation. New eartips + Android App & firmware update (bringing AptX-HD), and I think they'll be awesome



If you use android 9 or newer, try the wavelet app. Though YMMV as it may not work with everything.


----------



## clementpoiret

assassin10000 said:


> If you use android 9 or newer, try the wavelet app. Though YMMV as it may not work with everything.


Ohh nice! Thanks for the share, it looks like what I'm searching!


----------



## actorlife

Dang these Tevi are great for walking around the apt. Never a cut off or break up at all. It’s amazing cause most of my TWS cut off at some point while walking around. Saving that $30 bucks buying used is a big bonus and that beautiful SQ. I still have to check the battery to see if it does 10hrs.


----------



## actorlife

Sam L said:


> Been using my Fiil CC's for running (no thump). Previously, I used the mifo 02 (terrible for music, only good for podcasts). I might end up staying with the mifo's only because they secure a tad better in my ears than the CC. The other reason I pulled the trigger on the CC was the mic quality per a review stating they were excellent for calls. They are ok, not excellent. I might concede that they are pretty good for calls, but my sony xm3 is still better and the APP remains king.
> 
> I was surprised at the SQ of the CC's, excellent for their category (ala old air pods / semi in-ear). Overall the design on the CC's are awesome. Best feel in hand over all the other TWS's I've tried or owned. Refer to scarbir's review for design details.
> 
> ...


Are they relatively flat? Seems to me that they are. Did you do any graphs on the Tevi as well? Thank you Sam!!! I think it’s the first time I see measurements on this thread.


----------



## assassin10000

actorlife said:


> Are they relatively flat? Seems to me that they are. Did you do any graphs on the Tevi as well? Thank you Sam!!! I think it’s the first time I see measurements on this thread.



Crinacle has a bunch of TWS graphs on his site.


----------



## Shadowclash10

actorlife said:


> Dang these Tevi are great for walking around the apt. Never a cut off or break up at all. It’s amazing cause most of my TWS cut off at some point while walking around. Saving that $30 bucks buying used is a big bonus and that beautiful SQ. I still have to check the battery to see if it does 10hrs.


Mmm, if I remember correctly, some reviewers said they reached 10 hrs @50% volume. 60-75% netted them 8-9 hrs, i think? But ofc, YMMV. And 8-9 hours is still very good. I wonder WHY they don't break up...


----------



## actorlife

assassin10000 said:


> Crinacle has a bunch of TWS graphs on his site.


Thank A10000. That looks about right. Not completely flat, but fine to my ears. I’m still shock how great they sound.


----------



## actorlife

Shadowclash10 said:


> Mmm, if I remember correctly, some reviewers said they reached 10 hrs @50% volume. 60-75% netted them 8-9 hrs, i think? But ofc, YMMV. And 8-9 hours is still very good. I wonder WHY they don't break up...


I guess the antenna is superior, which is not expected on chi-fi stuff.


----------



## Caipirina

webvan said:


> Well people who have done detailed side-by-side comparisons with other available ANC TWEs have found them to be lacking. The Amazon Echo Buds for instance are very close to what the QC25/QC35 offer thanks to their excellent passive isolation that the ANR usefully supplements and the MTW2 are not far behind.
> Besides you have not addressed the fact that :
> - the passive isolation is poor compared to the Echo Buds, MTW2, or the recent SiFi II and Tozo NC9, there isn't much point having ANC if that prerequisite is not met.
> - there is a HUGE bass boost when ANC is activated which makes listening to music unpleasant even if you like bass. Why is that ?
> - using the term "hybrid ANC" is confusing, it's just what "normal ANC" is, i.e. feedforward and feedback ANC.



Have the Amazon Echo Buds been offered for sale outside the US? I still can't see them anywhere .. now that you mention they perform as well as the Bose QC25/35 I feel I MUST have those


----------



## DelsFan (Jul 30, 2020)

DelsFan said:


> Well, my price point is $60 to $100, or $120 if that iem is just a clear winner.
> OR, $148  if I want ANC and an iem that will stay in place no matter what the activity (at least, any activity my wife would be participating in).  I may drop the ANC requirement which would add to quality, at a lower price point.  But if we must have the ANC feature, it seems the WF-SP800N does a lot of things well if a person is also active.  AND, this model Sony is virtually waterproof - sweat-proof at least.  If I was trying to keep cost low and it was for me, probably I'd lean toward the AKG N400.
> 
> Let's say I am willing to drop the ANC, but want decent sound quality and an earphone that will stay in my (wife's) ear during moderate exercise.  My wife will never fool with any software features after initial setup, so good sound and crap features wouldn't be the worst.  Are there sub $100 iems that sound as good as the WF-SP800Ns, and will stay secure in one's ear(s), but don't have ANC?  Or, should one just pony up the $148 and go with the Sony and move on?


Well, I'm needing to change my criteria slightly. 
Just two simple changes, one will lower the price point and the other will reduce the options considerably (which is maybe good).

a) I got some Comply T-400 memory foam tips for my wife's corded (SoundMAGIC E10C) earbuds, and was telling her the importance of getting a good seal so she could hear the music better.  Her response, "But I need to hear what's going on around me since I'm walking outdoors and crossing streets!"  Conclusion:  *ANC is totally unnecessary* for her, and I know it can be turned off if I end up with Sony WF-SP800N earbuds (which I thought were $148, but now are $199 on Amazon; maybe I made a mistake but I think there is no need to pay $200 to meet my wife's simple needs).
b) She complains about her iems falling out.  Maybe the Comply foam tips will solve (or have already solved) this problem a little.  Or a lot.  BUT, the new criteria is the iem for her should have either an *arc support (like the Sony SP800) or an ear hook.*

*So, for a wireless iem for my wife:*
- TWS
- ANC is unnecessary
- Arc Support or Ear Hook for stability outdoors, walking or (light) jogging.
- Somewhat waterproof or sweat-proof, but probably most medium-priced TWS iems with arc supports or ear hooks will offer some degree of waterproof-ness, as with extra supports they are probably already going to be being marketed as "sport" models.
- Sound should be half-decent for music, in case I use these some; just good enough to not make an audiophile mad.  I know for $100 or a little more, a reasonable standard is good, not great and not crappy.  For my wife, she listens to some music but also a lot of audio books, so anything I half-like will suit her just fine!
- Something around $100 or a little more, or less.  A name brand like Sony or AKG would be fine, but not entirely necessary.  I'd pay an extra $20 for the name, if build quality and/or warranty is also better...  But I'm flexible.

One last thought:  The Sony WF-1000XM3 iems look somewhat lightweight; maybe a refurbished pair from Amazon for $99 wouldn't be an unreasonable choice?
Is this something that actually works?







Thanks guys; if you ever need over-ear open-backed headphone advice I'll be glad to return the favor!


----------



## assassin10000 (Jul 30, 2020)

DelsFan said:


> Well, I'm needing to change my criteria slightly.
> Just two simple changes, one will lower the price point and the other will reduce the options considerably (which is maybe good).
> 
> a) I got some Comply T-400 memory foam tips for my wife's corded (SoundMAGIC E10C) earbuds, and was telling her the importance of getting a good seal so she could hear the music better.  Her response, "But I need to hear what's going on around me since I'm walking outdoors and crossing streets!"  Conclusion:  *ANC is totally unnecessary* for her, and I know it can be turned off if I end up with Sony WF-SP800N earbuds (which I thought were $148, but now are $199 on Amazon; maybe I made a mistake but I think there is no need to pay $200 to meet my wife's simple needs).
> ...



Get her a pair of Sabbat X12 pro or X12 Ultra. They are similar to Airpods in that they are earbuds and not IEM's. No isolation and the safest way to hear around her when walking. Ambient modes on my XM3 or Buds+ couldn't compare. Can be found from 40-60 on Amazon IIRC.

If you want better sound quality pair a BT20S & MMCX earbuds like an ST-10S or RW-1000 bass.


The XM3's are terrible for walking around with or just movement in general. Their ANC is excellent though.


----------



## Shadowclash10

DelsFan said:


> Well, I'm needing to change my criteria slightly.
> Just two simple changes, one will lower the price point and the other will reduce the options considerably (which is maybe good).
> 
> a) I got some Comply T-400 memory foam tips for my wife's corded (SoundMAGIC E10C) earbuds, and was telling her the importance of getting a good seal so she could hear the music better.  Her response, "But I need to hear what's going on around me since I'm walking outdoors and crossing streets!"  Conclusion:  *ANC is totally unnecessary* for her, and I know it can be turned off if I end up with Sony WF-SP800N earbuds (which I thought were $148, but now are $199 on Amazon; maybe I made a mistake but I think there is no need to pay $200 to meet my wife's simple needs).
> ...


I agree with the above suggestion: either get something like Sabbat E12s, or a pair of iems paired with MMCX Bluetooth earhook adapters. If you are interested in the latter, consider waiting for the promising unreleased TRN BT20 Pros.


----------



## webvan

Caipirina said:


> Have the Amazon Echo Buds been offered for sale outside the US? I still can't see them anywhere .. now that you mention they perform as well as the Bose QC25/35 I feel I MUST have those


Yes on Amazon UK but they probably won't ship to other countries. I got mine on eBay last year from the US but you can probably get them from the UK now.


----------



## assassin10000

Shadowclash10 said:


> I agree with the above suggestion: either get something like Sabbat E12s, or a pair of iems paired with MMCX Bluetooth earhook adapters. If you are interested in the latter, consider waiting for the promising unreleased TRN BT20 Pros.



Not the E12. Those are IEM like lol. Easy to mix up as they are one letter different from the X12.


----------



## Shadowclash10

assassin10000 said:


> Not the E12. Those are IEM like lol. Easy to mix up as they are one letter different from the X12.


Ah, right. Always mix-em up


----------



## Messi94

I need wireless earbuds with good mic(atleast comparable to airpods gen 1), not painful for long run, decent battery life. 
i dont care much about touch controls on earbuds. I was using airpods gen 1 and their battery gave up. 
This time i wanna give try to in-ear tws as they give better sound and bit isolation as well.  but i dont like as some of these in-ear feels like too much pressure in the ear and they keep coming out of ear. i prefer good ambient mode to go outside in traffic. never tried ANC so cant say i will enjoy it or not.
I am currently waiting for galaxy buds live to see if they are good. budget is around 200cad (150 usd).
if anybody can guide me in right direction, it will be helpful. thanks!


----------



## VICosPhi

Messi94 said:


> I need wireless earbuds with good mic(atleast comparable to airpods gen 1), not painful for long run, decent battery life.
> i dont care much about touch controls on earbuds. I was using airpods gen 1 and their battery gave up.
> This time i wanna give try to in-ear tws as they give better sound and bit isolation as well.  but i dont like as some of these in-ear feels like too much pressure in the ear and they keep coming out of ear. i prefer good ambient mode to go outside in traffic. never tried ANC so cant say i will enjoy it or not.
> I am currently waiting for galaxy buds live to see if they are good. budget is around 200cad (150 usd).
> if anybody can guide me in right direction, it will be helpful. thanks!


Can't go wrong with Jabra 75T if you would like good mic quality and also good sound signature. The refurbished 75t can be had for $120 which is a great deal imo


----------



## actorlife (Jul 30, 2020)

chinmie said:


> what KZ are you planning to use it with? i doubt this new BT20 Pro would be below 25usd, but if you're planning on using hybrid driver KZs just go with the older and cheaper BT20. the BT20S introduces noticeable hiss for hybrids, but works fine with single drivers. it still has noise, but really minimal that you won't be bothered with it


These are the main ones. I’m not sure the UE would work with them?



Fiil T1 vs T1x Is it the same sound sig? Don’t really care for an app. Edit. seems no volume control. Thank goodness no more spending. Raha.


----------



## DelsFan

DelsFan said:


> *So, for a wireless iem for my wife:*
> - TWS
> - ANC is unnecessary
> - Arc Support or Ear Hook for stability outdoors, walking or (light) jogging.
> ...


I think my wife likes the IEMs that she is using now, as they let in a little ambient noise; she just doesn't want "real good" noice cancellation.
She's not really interested in earbuds as opposed to something that is inserted into the ear.  Earbuds let in too much noise, so one has to turn them up louder, thus reducing hearing longevity...
And a well-designed iem with ear hook or arc support won't "ever" fall out.


----------



## Shadowclash10

DelsFan said:


> I think my wife likes the IEMs that she is using now, as they let in a little ambient noise; she just doesn't want "real good" noice cancellation.
> She's not really interested in earbuds as opposed to something that is inserted into the ear.  Earbuds let in too much noise, so one has to turn them up louder, thus reducing hearing longevity...
> And a well-designed iem with ear hook or arc support won't "ever" fall out.


Oh wait, there IS a problem with iem's with earhooks - IEMS almost always have high isolation. But if she is okay with IEMs, you can go that route.


----------



## actorlife

Shadowclash10 said:


> Mmm, if I remember correctly, some reviewers said they reached 10 hrs @50% volume. 60-75% netted them 8-9 hrs, i think? But ofc, YMMV. And 8-9 hours is still very good. I wonder WHY they don't break up...


Checking battery now at 65 volume percent via my DAP. Started at 3PM and will check 12am-1am if still rocking.


----------



## webvan

DelsFan said:


> I think my wife likes the IEMs that she is using now, as they let in a little ambient noise; she just doesn't want "real good" noice cancellation.
> She's not really interested in earbuds as opposed to something that is inserted into the ear.  Earbuds let in too much noise, so one has to turn them up louder, thus reducing hearing longevity...
> And a well-designed iem with ear hook or arc support won't "ever" fall out.


If she's used to IEMs and does want isolation and a good fit you should try the Bomaker SiFi II, they have a great design that isolates well without ANC and don't move/lose the seal incessantly like tiny designs that used to be the "thing" last year, like the SiFi I, Anbe359, M5 etc...These tiny things look cute but are a nightmare to keep in place properly


----------



## actorlife

webvan said:


> If she's used to IEMs and does want isolation and a good fit you should try the Bomaker SiFi II, they have a great design that isolates well without ANC and don't move/lose the seal incessantly like tiny designs that used to be the "thing" last year, like the SiFi I, Anbe359, M5 etc...These tiny things look cute but are a nightmare to keep in place properly


Never had a problem with the Anbes 359 fit. Maybe it’s because I have small ears. Medium works for me. Never tried those others though. Transmart T2 sound close to them and can be found on eBay for 30ish.


----------



## webvan

The problem with these tiny designs (or poorly designed TWEs like the XM3s) is that they can't "rest" properly against any part of my ear (and they're not particularly big) so they always end up "popping out" and breaking the seal which is beyond annoying. Larger designs like the Echo Buds, SiFi II or Tozo NC9 are just "drop in" "push against your ear", done deal, no messing around with tip rolling !


----------



## Messi94

VICosPhi said:


> Can't go wrong with Jabra 75T if you would like good mic quality and also good sound signature. The refurbished 75t can be had for $120 which is a great deal imo


thanks for reply. are they better than galaxy buds and fit securely in ears?


----------



## assassin10000

DelsFan said:


> I think my wife likes the IEMs that she is using now, as they let in a little ambient noise; she just doesn't want "real good" noice cancellation.
> She's not really interested in earbuds as opposed to something that is inserted into the ear.  Earbuds let in too much noise, so one has to turn them up louder, thus reducing hearing longevity...
> And a well-designed iem with ear hook or arc support won't "ever" fall out.



These are what I know of, but I haven't heard.

Mpow flame lite - aac/sbc, usb-c ($38 & 10% off on amazon right now) 
Qcy T6 - aac/sbc/aptx, micro usb (60 on Amazon, if you can wait sub $30 on AliExpress)
Losei x12 - unknown codecs, usb-c
Mpow flame pro - aptx/aac/sbc, wireless charging & usb-c (90 on amazon)

Out of budget:
Apple power beats.


----------



## voicemaster

DelsFan said:


> I think my wife likes the IEMs that she is using now, as they let in a little ambient noise; she just doesn't want "real good" noice cancellation.
> She's not really interested in earbuds as opposed to something that is inserted into the ear.  Earbuds let in too much noise, so one has to turn them up louder, thus reducing hearing longevity...
> And a well-designed iem with ear hook or arc support won't "ever" fall out.


Samsung galaxy buds plus is great.


----------



## Shadowclash10

assassin10000 said:


> These are what I know of, but I haven't heard.
> 
> Mpow flame lite - aac/sbc, usb-c ($38 & 10% off on amazon right now)
> Qcy T6 - aac/sbc/aptx, micro usb (60 on Amazon, if you can wait sub $30 on AliExpress)
> ...





assassin10000 said:


> These are what I know of, but I haven't heard.
> 
> Mpow flame lite - aac/sbc, usb-c ($38 & 10% off on amazon right now)
> Qcy T6 - aac/sbc/aptx, micro usb (60 on Amazon, if you can wait sub $30 on AliExpress)
> ...


Those are what I have heard of/came up with as well. 
@actorlife just got those Losei's, so...
You can also go for something with in-ear ear hooks, like the Fiil T1X, or the Anker Soundcore Liberty 2 Pros (L2Ps). Or, you can get something like the TRN B20s and use them with the IEM of your choice.

In Scarbir's words, the difference between the Mpow Flame lite and Pro is: "It's up to you if you want to pay the higher price for better controls, calls, and a smoother sound for everyday-listening."


----------



## actorlife

assassin10000 said:


> These are what I know of, but I haven't heard.
> 
> Mpow flame lite - aac/sbc, usb-c ($38 & 10% off on amazon right now)
> Qcy T6 - aac/sbc/aptx, micro usb (60 on Amazon, if you can wait sub $30 on AliExpress)
> ...


I added the manual pic to the X12 overview. SBC and AAC. No aptx. 5hrs 30min battery, 88db, 12mm full range driver, etc for more info:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/goi...e-we-there-yet.861024/page-1604#post-15770511


----------



## DelsFan

Shadowclash10 said:


> Oh wait, there IS a problem with iem's with earhooks - IEMS almost always have high isolation. But if she is okay with IEMs, you can go that route.


What is the problem, do earhooks just not work well?  Do models like the Sony  WF-SP800N iems with the arc support work better?  I just need a pair for half of $200!
A lot of good suggestions, but she wants either earhooks or arc supports.  And there is no sense in buying something you guys already know is uncomfortable!

OK, tried an iem for the first time.  Yep, they isolate a lot more than my open-backed headphones!  I could tap my pen on the desk and not hear it with music playing at a low volume.  With no music at all I could barely hear the click of my pen on the desk.  I think I could watch a car approach and they drive by and maybe never hear it.  For sure if it came up from behind it seems I'd not hear it...


----------



## TheLionelHutz

Does anyone swim with IPX7 buds?


----------



## FYLegend (Jul 30, 2020)

actorlife said:


> Never had a problem with the Anbes 359 fit. Maybe it’s because I have small ears. Medium works for me. Never tried those others though. Transmart T2 sound close to them and can be found on eBay for 30ish.


I agree the form factor is the most ideal and provides amazing passive isolation. Same goes for Tronsmart Onyx Neo which is a bit better, and the Galaxy Live Beans seem to have something similar without in-ear. The thing is, their "medium" tips are the equivalent of "small" in other earbuds. Once I put my typical medium IEM tips onto them, they bulge out of my ears and no longer sit flush. This is particularly bad on Anbes/UFO because the buds are prone to driver flex.

I'm not sure at this point if stem-TWS still have better mic quality or if non-stem have been able to catch up.


----------



## VICosPhi

Messi94 said:


> thanks for reply. are they better than galaxy buds and fit securely in ears?


Soundwise much better, and the fit is secure too as they are on the smaller side when compared to most earbuds. Galaxy buds+ have better battery life tho but Jabras give me 7 hours which is great.


----------



## Shadowclash10

TheLionelHutz said:


> Does anyone swim with IPX7 buds?


Are you asking bc of the pool situation? I can't speak to it personlly, but I would say don't, bc IPX7 is "30 minutes and depth of up to 1 meter". That isn't swim-proof. But IPX7 is shower-safe. Now, if I was in a wading pool, where I would only briefly submerge, or if I was sitting next to a pool, then I would be fine with IPX7 buds as long as they were cheap. I still wouldn;t want to swim with IPX8 buds, unless they are cheap and they have a built in MP3 player, cause BT doesn't work well when you are underwater.


----------



## Caipirina

webvan said:


> Yes on Amazon UK but they probably won't ship to other countries. I got mine on eBay last year from the US but you can probably get them from the UK now.


Hmmm. In stock August 21 ... shipping only to UK & Ireland ....  grrrr


----------



## howdy

webvan said:


> The problem with these tiny designs (or poorly designed TWEs like the XM3s) is that they can't "rest" properly against any part of my ear (and they're not particularly big) so they always end up "popping out" and breaking the seal which is beyond annoying. Larger designs like the Echo Buds, SiFi II or Tozo NC9 are just "drop in" "push against your ear", done deal, no messing around with tip rolling !


I've never had an issue with the XM3s breaking seal with not to vigorous activity like mowing or household chores. The only TW I've had that issue with is the MW07. I loved the MW07, I wished they would have worked!


----------



## dwells

Caipirina said:


> Did you write more about the Aukey before? What's the fit and SQ like?
> Mine shall be here by Saturday


Fit is okay - the stems are noticeable, but that’s to be expected. The actual eartips are kinda weird in that neither the medium or large _feel_ like they’re sealing, but based on the microphonics when I touch the stem and the ambient noise blockage, I assume they are sealing. I think they might just be a little thinner or lighter than the last silicon tips I used? Plus I’m used to the foam tips on my Tin T2s, so there’s that.

I wrote a bit about the sound a few posts back, but the short of it is that it’s good. No sibilance bothering me here, bass hits without being overpowering, mids are defined well enough, highs are a bit more blunted than I’d like. They’re very much a competent set of earbuds for $50 that I can enjoy listening to, they’re just lacking a real “wow” factor like I get with my T2s.

But that’s something I notice when I’m switching back and forth and listening critically. For my intended use case of taking them out hiking, walking through cities, on planes and buses, etc, they’ll fit the bill and keep me happy.


----------



## jasonb

howdy said:


> I've never had an issue with the XM3s breaking seal with not to vigorous activity like mowing or household chores. The only TW I've had that issue with is the MW07. I loved the MW07, I wished they would have worked!



With the right tips they are very secure. For me the best is Spinfit CP360, and the Xelastec tips. Memory foam is secure too.


----------



## chinmie

TheLionelHutz said:


> Does anyone swim with IPX7 buds?



i did, but not very useful. the moment it's submerged the signal would cut off.. so unless you're swimming with your ears above water you wouldn't be able to hear music. i use Sony WS earphones for swimming. listening music underwater is a really pleasant experience


----------



## Shadowclash10

chinmie said:


> i did, but not very useful. the moment it's submerged the signal would cut off.. so unless you're swimming with your ears above water you wouldn't be able to hear music. i use Sony WS earphones for swimming. listening music underwater is a really pleasant experience


I think that is why audio gear marketed as "for swimmers" or something like that almost always has a built in MP3 player, so you don't have to deal with BT when you are underwater.


----------



## bronco1015 (Jul 31, 2020)

DelsFan said:


> Well, I'm needing to change my criteria slightly.
> Just two simple changes, one will lower the price point and the other will reduce the options considerably (which is maybe good).
> 
> a) I got some Comply T-400 memory foam tips for my wife's corded (SoundMAGIC E10C) earbuds, and was telling her the importance of getting a good seal so she could hear the music better.  Her response, "But I need to hear what's going on around me since I'm walking outdoors and crossing streets!"  Conclusion:  *ANC is totally unnecessary* for her, and I know it can be turned off if I end up with Sony WF-SP800N earbuds (which I thought were $148, but now are $199 on Amazon; maybe I made a mistake but I think there is no need to pay $200 to meet my wife's simple needs).
> ...


Haven't read through the whole thread yet, so you may already have what you need. But When i read your revised preferences, jabra 75T comes to mind. no they don't have earhooks, but they are small and stay in the ear well. They are IP5, so were the 65T's and i used to swim with those daily until i sold them. i've seen referbs for $100-120. Out of the box the sound will probably not be what you're after, but theres a jabra app with an eq, and the settings are saved to the iems. Also, they have an ambiant mode that can be activated, so either one of you can hear your environment with music playing if you want. They're also pretty good for calls as well and charge via USB-C. Edit, another pair with hooks if you can find them for cheaper, as they aren't worth the msrp of $149.99 are the PSB M4U TW1. Also IP5 rated, no ambiant mode, only codec is SBC, but like any bluetooth headset or source, it's all about the implementation, and SBC isn't as bad as it's always made out to be when it's integrated into a product correctly.


----------



## benngmunkit

dwells said:


> Ultimately wound up having to send back my FIIL T1Xs. I really loved the sound, but the case was just too much for slim and skinny cut pants - way too much pocket bulge and I could feel it.
> 
> Still trying out the Aukey EP-N5 and deciding if I’m keeping them. One thing that bothers me is that the ANC doesn’t seem to be on by default, and it doesn’t remember your last setting. So you have to turn it on manually each time.



I've have them for a month now. I feel the case is portable, maybe not for your case of skinny jeans.

However there is no ANC mode, only ambient mode. And for mine, the setting for ambient mode is always remembered everytime I switch them on and off.

Have you tried the Chinese APK for full features yet? Love the soundstage and instrumental separation btw.


----------



## staticV3 (Jul 31, 2020)

Mpow M30 vs QCY T5 vs SoundPeats Truedot (vs Edifier X3 coming soon)

Mpow has the best sound quality. It's got a very natural tuning that is however pretty warm. Too much warmth for my taste. Slight bass bleed. Fantastic highs compared to the others. No apparent faults with the tuning.
The Truedot has a super distinct bass hump (think Buds+ but even more blocky), but vocals are horribly sucked out as a result. Very peaky Pinna comp with >10dB further accentuates the unnaturalness.
The T5 doesn't fare much better. It's got good, normal, some might say boring bass, but the mids are wonky and the highs are weak compared to the M30.


----------



## Luchyres

bronco1015 said:


> Thanks for your initial thoughts, yeah i think i'll pass on them then. next 2 i'm likely to buy are the Nuarl N10 and Bose Earbuds 700. Though may not on the latter unless ANC is out of this world, cause they probably won't have aptx. Though the discount i get through work may just put me over the edge.



I'm with you. Let me know about that work discount?  



logiatype said:


> Honestly I've given up on TWS microphones. I'll get a pair for commuting and stick to wired headsets at home. Waiting for the GBuds Live at the moment.
> 
> Can you describe the difference between the Nuarl and the N400 sound? I'm curious about the Nuarl iems but will wait for the N10s (with EQ).



I hear you, but the practical side of me HAS to be able to make calls with passable quality on them, so I still look for it. The Nuarl in spite of having a straightforward/simple mic setup compared to some of the ANC sets, has pretty great audio quality. I think you can hear bg noise, but you can definitely still hear me well. 

Regarding the sound difference: 
The AKG N400 were a little more analytical/crisp in the treble (almost more like a BA) and reminded me ever so slightly of my old Moondrop Kanas Pro -except it can't deliver on the low end. Some tracks were OK, but even when it represented the bass tonality well, there wasn't enough impact/weight behind it and it ends up sounds a little.... underwhelming to flabby/bad. In fact, I had to walk back all of my EQ customization in the AKG app, and it helped with the flabbiness, but didn't fix it even at neutral.It's almost as though they would start out sounding bad and tighten up over a listen, but it was hit or miss, source affected (app) and source device unaffected (iOS and Android)

The N6 (non pro) are a little big, but it allows them to create resonance that, imo, aids in the representation of the low end and mids. When a song is poorly produced, the bass rolls off rather than hitting you with the flab, the mids and highs and lows just all have so much tonality/flavor. It packs a punch with volume, EQs to your hearts content, and will play your 96kbps basement produced 2000s hip-hop and your lossless audio well. 

I would be tempted to still check out the N6 Pro, though I went for the N6 for the slightly bassier tuning by choice and still love them. I just want something a little more sturdy in the fit for my jumprope workouts.



FYLegend said:


> Have you been able to try it with a Windows laptop? After the fiasco with the Buds+, I'm wary about whether SBC codec has been gimped on the N400.



I have not, but they showed the same audio behaviors on iOS and Android, so I'm hoping I got to test AAC and SBC (and I sure hoped AAC would be decent at the very least). YMMV


----------



## staticV3 (Jul 31, 2020)

Here are some measurements for the comparison I posted earlier. The setup is a simple mic in a tube, so don't go comparing the graphs to other people's.



Spoiler: Frequency Response









It reflects pretty well what I was able to hear.


Spoiler: Channel Imbalance








The M30 is definitely the nicest. TrueDot and T5 are both not that amazing, but the QCY is definitely the worst with that massive 6-7K peak.

If you want any FR comparisons to stuff like the 4XR, Bl-03, or MH755 for reference, then just say so


----------



## actorlife (Jul 31, 2020)

actorlife said:


> Checking battery now at 65 volume percent via my DAP. Started at 3PM and will check 12am-1am if still rocking.


The Tevi that I bought used on amazon is giving me about 7hrs. 50 percent volume. I guess the previous user used these a lot. Whenever these go on sale of course I’m getting a backup. Anyone know how low a price these have gone? Not sure but I don’t think there is a battery low voice on these? Mine just shut off. Anyone with the Tevi can confirm? I will do a overview on these sometime soon. I did reset these before doing the battery test. SQ is top notch.


----------



## jant71

Luchyres said:


> The N6 (non pro) are a little big



Funny you should say that this particular morning...

TheN6 mini,a fully wireless earphone, is a compact model that adds new features such as IPX7-compliant waterproofing and external sound capture while reducing the size/price from the previous N6 model. The price is 9,900 yen (excluding tax).




The NUARL DRIVER[N6]v3, a proprietary driver installed, uses a "PTT multilayer film diaphragm" coated with TPE and titanium on the surface of the PEEK vibrating film to play powerful sound from high to low range. Qualcomm's QCC3020 is used for Bluetooth chips, and it supports transmission with aptX/AAC/SBC codecs, enabling playback for up to 32 hours in combination with up to 8 hours/case with earphones alone.


----------



## Luchyres

jant71 said:


> Funny you should say that this particular morning...
> 
> TheN6 mini,a fully wireless earphone, is a compact model that adds new features such as IPX7-compliant waterproofing and external sound capture while reducing the size/price from the previous N6 model. The price is 9,900 yen (excluding tax).
> 
> ...




I am 100% buying these and then the N10 Pro when they are released. Thank you for sharing these!

If anyone knows where Nuarl products tend to show up first (avail in USA), please let me know. 😄


----------



## TheLionelHutz

Shadowclash10 said:


> Are you asking bc of the pool situation? I can't speak to it personlly, but I would say don't, bc IPX7 is "30 minutes and depth of up to 1 meter". That isn't swim-proof. But IPX7 is shower-safe. Now, if I was in a wading pool, where I would only briefly submerge, or if I was sitting next to a pool, then I would be fine with IPX7 buds as long as they were cheap. I still wouldn;t want to swim with IPX8 buds, unless they are cheap and they have a built in MP3 player, cause BT doesn't work well when you are underwater.


Thanks. Yes, the pool situation. The wife wants the option to actually wear them in the water. Not for laps or anything, but for when she's in the water with the kids and not having to fully engage, which is often as they are getting bigger. "One ear still in her book" or whatever.  (It's a community pool with life guards, that's not as irresponsible as it sounds ).  But they might take more than a splash under the circumstance.


----------



## TheLionelHutz

Luchyres said:


> I am 100% buying these and then the N10 Pro when they are released. Thank you for sharing these!
> 
> If anyone knows where Nuarl products tend to show up first (avail in USA), please let me know. 😄


Darn it, me too. Nuarl is killing me here...


----------



## howdy

jasonb said:


> With the right tips they are very secure. For me the best is Spinfit CP360, and the Xelastec tips. Memory foam is secure too.


I use Spinfits on almost all of my TWS. They are awesome! Sometimes I get lucky with the supplies eartips like Sennheisers and Beats.


----------



## Caipirina (Jul 31, 2020)

TheLionelHutz said:


> Does anyone swim with IPX7 buds?


Have not tried and would not recommend... unless you mean very casual laps, but for ‘real’ work out swimming, I doubt any bud would stay in ear. I even manage to get my Sony NWZ 4 series out while swimming and I am not that strong of a swimmer.

(edit: read the community pool setup of your wife just now, for that anything ipx7 should be fine. But I still prefer the Sony connected by wire, easier to rest on neck when kids want to talk to her,as they sometimes do... also less easy to lose one side. )


----------



## Caipirina (Jul 31, 2020)

Just a quickie: I received the Aukey EP-N5 today and so far I am quite impressed!!! I paid 50€, I see with coupons they can be had for 45$ in the US ... the fit is awesome (like the APP) the anc is pretty sweet in this price segment. And the SQ does NOT suck! Bit emphasis on the bass, but in a lively manner, not making things overbearing like the Apollo’s .
more later. 
but for a change: these are NOT going back!


----------



## dwells

Caipirina said:


> Just a quickie: I received the Aukey EP-N5 today and so far I am quite impressed!!! I paid 50€, I see with coupons they can be had for 45$ in the US ... the fit is awesome (like the APP) the anc is pretty sweet in this price segment. And the SQ does NOT suck! Bit emphasis on the bass, but in a lively manner, not making things overbearing like the Apollo’s .
> more later.
> but for a change: these are NOT going back!


Glad you like them! Does your active noise canceling come on by default or do you have to enable it every time like I seem to have to?


----------



## sarv

So I returned my 1more ANC (left one stopped working). Now looking for new best one to buy. Looking for everyday use, class and gym
1. Sony xm3
2. Airpods pro on Android?.
3.  Apollo.
Should buy one now or wait for something better to come out?
Thx guys


----------



## phaeton70

Today I got my pair of Tronsmart Apollo Bold, and I must say I'm impressed for the price.
Yes bass is very uplifted related to what I'm used with my other cans, but very easily corrected with some eq (I use Spotify and MXPlayer). When bass-corrected, these earbuds sound IMHO quite good (I say "quite good" with regards to the other cans I have), and if I think about the price I would say they sound really very good.
But I don't agree on other things I have read here. Noise reduction is IMHO very good (to be an in-ear I mean), but maybe this depends on the particular auricle shape, don't know. In my case, I can say it is really very good, very much better than other ANC in-ears I have tried.
Comfort wise, again I would say they are very good, light and very stable in the ear.
The touchpad is very comfortable and responsive, when you get the hang of it.
All in all I'm very happy of the purchase, and I would suggest them without hesitation if someone ask me.

PS I have bought my pair of Apollo, I have not been given any "discount" or other concessions and I'm not related in any way to Tronsmart


----------



## Caipirina (Jul 31, 2020)

dwells said:


> Glad you like them! Does your active noise canceling come on by default or do you have to enable it every time like I seem to have to?


have to turn on every time as well

But if 'how many hours on day you have received it you actually listen to it' is any indicator, then I like these really quite some! I am enjoying the SQ (uplifting beat-y, more dynamic than the APP), the fit (went out for a short run with them) ... and overall everything, the touch pads are not too finicky, but I find it a bit lacking in functionality .. no biggie, but vol control would have been nice.


----------



## TheLionelHutz

jant71 said:


> Funny you should say that this particular morning...
> 
> TheN6 mini,a fully wireless earphone, is a compact model that adds new features such as IPX7-compliant waterproofing and external sound capture while reducing the size/price from the previous N6 model. The price is 9,900 yen (excluding tax).
> 
> ...



Hm. 



> The dual cVc microphone with call noise cancelling specifications will continue to be installed, and *a new external sound capture function will be installed* according to market demand.



Ambient mode?


----------



## voicemaster

Wow nuarl with ambiance mode will kill the galaxy buds plus for me.


----------



## jant71

TheLionelHutz said:


> Hm.
> 
> Ambient mode?



Yep, think it was the three things people wanted in the N6. Smaller size, waterproof rating and hear through mode. Now if you distinguish between ambiant mode and pass-through I am not sure which it will be here. Difference being just shutting things down and turning the mics on which might not work well while listening is pass through. Might not get enough volume in certain situations. Or a true ambient mode allowing you to hear but also listen which is something you might be able to adjust the amount of ambient and you can use constantly vs. pass-through which is just to talk to someone and usually shut down right after. I would guess in the N6 mini is pass-through and might not be good enough for all day at work situations.


----------



## FYLegend

Luchyres said:


> I have not, but they showed the same audio behaviors on iOS and Android, so I'm hoping I got to test AAC and SBC (and I sure hoped AAC would be decent at the very least). YMMV


On Android 8 or newer, enable developer options and change the codec to SBC.


----------



## FYLegend

jant71 said:


> Yep, think it was the three things people wanted in the N6. Smaller size, waterproof rating and hear through mode. Now if you distinguish between ambiant mode and pass-through I am not sure which it will be here. Difference being just shutting things down and turning the mics on which might not work well while listening is pass through. Might not get enough volume in certain situations. Or a true ambient mode allowing you to hear but also listen which is something you might be able to adjust the amount of ambient and you can use constantly vs. pass-through which is just to talk to someone and usually shut down right after. I would guess in the N6 mini is pass-through and might not be good enough for all day at work situations.


I think you mean a "quick ambient mode" - original Galaxy Buds had it but Buds+ removed it. While Buds+ has a clear ambient mode with adjustments, I feel like the latest updates have ruined it by removing the bass and adding a wind reduction filter which ruins the stereo image. I feel unsafe using it outdoors with cars passing by, as compared to Jabra 65t or Jabees Firefly Pro. 

Some implementations like Aufo M1's passtru mode (as the voice calls it) lower the music volume. I'd rather be able to adjust my own volume, but it's annoying too because on most other TWS I have to decrease it to below 30% to clearly hear people talking. Jabees Firefly Pro's ambient mode relies on the fact that the passive isolation is not that good to begin with.

ambient, hearthrough, heararound, passthrough, transparency mode...


----------



## jant71

Yes, so many terms. I do distinguish based on how you can use it. Just like with my JVC the tips are ambient tips and the pass through mode is just to talk to someone for a bit and even though I can adjust the volume I would use the tips for ambient situations long term whole time listening. The mics on isn't the way to go if you want awareness on a run. The mics give the wind and plenty of unwanted stuff.

On another note I did comes across this while browsing. About the N10 Pro. 

"  The N6 Pro uses a "SWCNT composite diaphragm" in which two vibrating membranes, single-walled carbon nanotubes and PEEK, are vacuum deposited and bonded together, but the N10 Pro uses a further advanced driver." Some speculated it is just the N6 Pro driver but it is actually an improved version. They released a new earphone the NX1 with a driver called...  NUARL DRIVE[N10]v5X, a 10mm dynamic driver developed by the company, featuring a single-walled carbon nanotube composite diaphragm, a 7N-grade OCC voice coil, and a dual magnetic circuit with neodymium magnets inside and outside the voice coil. Not sure if it the same driver in the N10 Pro. They do want $330 for that new earphone.


----------



## jayc29u

Hi everyone! Long time lurker, and have been reading a few pages back and I thought I would finally post and ask everyone for their recommendations on some TWS.
I've been doing a bit of research on the ones that have been mentioned a bit in the last few pages but I just can't decide which ones I want to get!

I have a few things I would like in a set like having USB C, AptX, decent sound quality and mic, ability to have one or both earbuds connected at a time and if possible have the ability to be connected to 2 devices.

Would love to hear your thoughts and which one would do this the best!


----------



## Shadowclash10

Welp, this isn't working . Got some Enacfire E60s, which Scarbir liked, but I can't seem to get a good seal at all in my left ear, and partially in my right. And we all know how bad IEMs sound without a good seal. Any tips? Maybe get some foam Complys?


----------



## VICosPhi

bronco1015 said:


> [QU
> i haven't had a reason to listen longer than 4 hours with these, longest was right around 4 hours while traveling. i rarely use these past 50% and i had anc on the whole time, and still had right around half the battery left according to the app, and the estimate on my phone. i've found that feature in Android to be vastly improoved from when i first ssaw it a couple years ago. now i'm gonna have to do the full battery drain test though.
> FWIW, i only charge them via a wall charger.



Did you get a chance to test out battery runtime on your MTW2?


----------



## actorlife

Shadowclash10 said:


> Welp, this isn't working . Got some Enacfire E60s, which Scarbir liked, but I can't seem to get a good seal at all in my left ear, and partially in my right. And we all know how bad IEMs sound without a good seal. Any tips? Maybe get some foam Complys?


Spinfits tips seem to be well liked here. Check amazon. I need to get a pair and see what the fuss is all about.


----------



## actorlife (Jul 31, 2020)

jayc29u said:


> Hi everyone! Long time lurker, and have been reading a few pages back and I thought I would finally post and ask everyone for their recommendations on some TWS.
> I've been doing a bit of research on the ones that have been mentioned a bit in the last few pages but I just can't decide which ones I want to get!
> 
> I have a few things I would like in a set like having USB C, AptX, decent sound quality and mic, ability to have one or both earbuds connected at a time and if possible have the ability to be connected to 2 devices.
> ...


Lypertek Tevi is a great contender for $89. Ofusho TWS is great too. Not sure if they can do two devices though. Check amazon.


----------



## Shadowclash10

actorlife said:


> Lypertek Tevi is a great contender for $89. Ofusho TWS is great too. Not sure if they can do two devices though. Check amazon.


Right, multipoint is kinda rare. The only pair I know of the top of my head is the Jabra 75t, and maybe the 65t?


----------



## Shadowclash10

actorlife said:


> Spinfits tips seem to be well liked here. Check amazon. I need to get a pair and see what the fuss is all about.


I might try some Complys... foam is more comfortable and these are really uncomfortable. the only problem is that I think the tips that the E60s come with are abnormal soze-wise, so I don't know if the earbuds/case will accept larger foam tips...



Is it just me, or are these stock tips all a bit small and short?


----------



## RemoGaggi

I have some Tranya T10's on the way to test.  They should arrive on Monday.  Stay tuned (pun intended)......


----------



## Bobbetybob

Shadowclash10 said:


> I might try some Complys... foam is more comfortable and these are really uncomfortable. the only problem is that I think the tips that the E60s come with are abnormal soze-wise, so I don't know if the earbuds/case will accept larger foam tips...
> Is it just me, or are these stock tips all a bit small and short?


Yeah they look similar to what came with the Bomaker Sifi II which are really fussy about you putting any other tips on, they just flat out won't go back in the case and charge properly. Do you have any other IEM's you can try the tips from? Even if they're way too big for the case at least you'll know if you can achieve a good fit with them.

I picked up the Soundpeats Truefree 2 yesterday, the Truefree+ were my first TWS so it seemed only right to try the sequel. They're another solid set from Soundpeats, nice full warm bassy sound, fit seems good so far and no connection issues.

Only things I don't like so far is the case is still quite chonky (but it's happy to accommodate Spinfit CP360's so that's a plus) and for some reason instead of the great touch controls of the Truedot it has buttons that are even harder to press than the Truefree+ were.


----------



## sponsor

jant71 said:


> Yes, so many terms. I do distinguish based on how you can use it. Just like with my JVC the tips are ambient tips and the pass through mode is just to talk to someone for a bit and even though I can adjust the volume I would use the tips for ambient situations long term whole time listening. The mics on isn't the way to go if you want awareness on a run. The mics give the wind and plenty of unwanted stuff.
> 
> On another note I did comes across this while browsing. About the N10 Pro.
> 
> "  The N6 Pro uses a "SWCNT composite diaphragm" in which two vibrating membranes, single-walled carbon nanotubes and PEEK, are vacuum deposited and bonded together, but the N10 Pro uses a further advanced driver." Some speculated it is just the N6 Pro driver but it is actually an improved version. They released a new earphone the NX1 with a driver called...  NUARL DRIVE[N10]v5X, a 10mm dynamic driver developed by the company, featuring a single-walled carbon nanotube composite diaphragm, a 7N-grade OCC voice coil, and a dual magnetic circuit with neodymium magnets inside and outside the voice coil. Not sure if it the same driver in the N10 Pro. They do want $330 for that new earphone.



The only thing bothering me with N10Pro is their battery life.
3.5hr with aptX and ANC, and 5hrs with just aptX seems a little on the lower side, and will degrade pretty fast from there. When even N6Pro manages 8hrs on aptX.


----------



## James-uk (Aug 1, 2020)

A friend had just picked up a pair of Sony 1000XM3. 
He is struggling to get a seal with the stock tips, any suggestions. Which spin fits are used with these?

And what’s the best Bluetooth codec to use listening to Spotify with a one plus phone? 
I use an iPhone with AirPods Pro and momentum TW so I’ve never had all the options he has.


----------



## eiraku (Aug 1, 2020)

Man, N6 Minis (with possible ambient mode?) AND the BT20 Pro? My wallet is death.



Shadowclash10 said:


> I might try some Complys... foam is more comfortable and these are really uncomfortable. the only problem is that I think the tips that the E60s come with are abnormal soze-wise, so I don't know if the earbuds/case will accept larger foam tips...
> 
> Is it just me, or are these stock tips all a bit small and short?



Is that an OG Intellimouse? Good stuff that.


----------



## Caipirina

James-uk said:


> A friend had just picked up a pair of Sony 1000XM3.
> He is struggling to get a seal with the stock tips, any suggestions. Which spin fits are used with these?


I keep hearing the CP360 are the ones to get for them. I have not tried yet myself as I keep having trouble to source them locally


----------



## Luchyres

FYLegend said:


> On Android 8 or newer, enable developer options and change the codec to SBC.



I sent them back already so no longer can do these experiments (the AKG N400). I'm pretty ruthless in my comparisons (personal auditioning) and only want 2-3 pairs TWS so if they don't beat the reigning champ they go back immediately lol. 

That being said, I have played around with the BT Codecs in the Developer Options.I did not detect a change when selecting other codecs, and the codecs never stay selected if I close the menu - if you have pro-tips about how to make sure the codecs are applied/stay for a period, let me know. Otherwise the AKG N400 displayed no difference to my ears when adjusting the settings.


----------



## Luchyres

For those of us curious about the "ambient" capabilities of the N6 Mini - this is from their FAQ on Nuarl's site:


----------



## actorlife

Shadowclash10 said:


> I might try some Complys... foam is more comfortable and these are really uncomfortable. the only problem is that I think the tips that the E60s come with are abnormal soze-wise, so I don't know if the earbuds/case will accept larger foam tips...
> Is it just me, or are these stock tips all a bit small and short?


I have those tips on came with my Hoopshop W1 and never had a comfort issue. I’d give both a try and hopefully you’ll find comfort.


----------



## actorlife (Aug 1, 2020)

actorlife said:


> The Tevi that I bought used on amazon is giving me about 7hrs. 50 percent volume. I guess the previous user used these a lot. Whenever these go on sale of course I’m getting a backup. *Anyone know how low a price these have gone? Not sure but I don’t think there is a battery low voice on these? Mine just shut off. Anyone with the Tevi can confirm? *I will do a overview on these sometime soon. I did reset these before doing the battery test. SQ is top notch.


Anyone who has the Tevi could you answer these  questions?


----------



## jasonb

Caipirina said:


> I keep hearing the CP360 are the ones to get for them. I have not tried yet myself as I keep having trouble to source them locally



Spinfit CP360 or the sedna earfit Xelastec tips. The Xelastec tips run a bit large so go down a size or two from what you'd normally use.


----------



## howdy

James-uk said:


> A friend had just picked up a pair of Sony 1000XM3.
> He is struggling to get a seal with the stock tips, any suggestions. Which spin fits are used with these?
> 
> And what’s the best Bluetooth codec to use listening to Spotify with a one plus phone?
> I use an iPhone with AirPods Pro and momentum TW so I’ve never had all the options he has.


I have the Spinfit CP100 on my XM3.


----------



## RobinFood

I'm a little concerned that the N6 mini doesn't have hdss. Nuarl has released sports editions without hdss and with ipx7 in the past and they were not well received at all. They sounded really plain and ordinary. The hdss and large chamber have their earphones that grand reverb that I am guessing the mini will lack. I think auditions are in order, it's just not a good time to go to virus hot spots and put display items in my ears


----------



## VICosPhi (Aug 1, 2020)

I could be in a minority in here but Spinfit CP360 do not provide me a good seal for my Momentum2 or 75t, tried all XS,S,M,L sizes. The factory tips provide a better seal than these. The spinfits are much more comfortable though.

Do you guys know of any other tips similar to Spinfit CP360 designed specially for TWS?


----------



## chinmie

James-uk said:


> A friend had just picked up a pair of Sony 1000XM3.
> He is struggling to get a seal with the stock tips, any suggestions. Which spin fits are used with these?
> 
> And what’s the best Bluetooth codec to use listening to Spotify with a one plus phone?
> I use an iPhone with AirPods Pro and momentum TW so I’ve never had all the options he has.



i use cp360 on one of my unit. the case has deep enough pockets that i think it can fit all spinfits but the twinblades. 
i prefer the fit of the AET07 on my other unit though, even though the cp360 is more flush and more grippy, but the cp360 would sometimes break seal when pushed too deep. the AET07 has more stable seal


----------



## bedlamite

VICosPhi said:


> I could be in a minority in here but Spinfit CP360 do not provide me a good seal for my Momentum2 or 75t, tried all XS,S,M,L sizes. The factory tips provide a better seal than these. The spinfits are much more comfortable though.
> 
> Do you guys know of any other tips similar to Spinfit CP360 designed specially for TWS?


Everybody has differently sized ear canals, don't worry about it. If the CP360s didn't work for you, I think there are a few other choices for TWS tips: misodiko's TWS stuff (they have foam and silicone) and the current flavour of the month, the Azla Sedna Earfits. The Azlas intrigue me but man,  are they pricey.


----------



## VICosPhi

bedlamite said:


> Everybody has differently sized ear canals, don't worry about it. If the CP360s didn't work for you, I think there are a few other choices for TWS tips: misodiko's TWS stuff (they have foam and silicone) and the current flavour of the month, the Azla Sedna Earfits. The Azlas intrigue me but man,  are they pricey.


Thanks, do you know if the Sedna earfits remain on the earbuds securely when you try to take them off of your ears? I tried their Xelastec tips and they give a great fit/sound but when removing the buds from the ears, the tips often get stuck in my ears.


----------



## Shadowclash10

eiraku said:


> Man, N6 Minis (with possible ambient mode?) AND the BT20 Pro? My wallet is death.
> 
> 
> 
> Is that an OG Intellimouse? Good stuff that.


The Wheel Mouse Optical. I believe it's an OEM thing. I have other, newer, ergonomic mice just sitting on my mousepad and I always just switch back to my Optical .


----------



## Shadowclash10

I'm thinking of returning my Enacfire E60s and getting Fiil T1Xs... Sad. They havce such a nice, tiny case, and aptX, but if I can't get a seal and good audio quality, then back they go. Thankfully Amazon advertised free returns, so they shouldn't have a restocking fee. There's also the Sifi IIs...

Does anyone know which Complys, if any fit the Bomaker Sifi II and the Fiil T1X


----------



## TheLionelHutz

RobinFood said:


> I'm a little concerned that the N6 mini doesn't have hdss. Nuarl has released sports editions without hdss and with ipx7 in the past and they were not well received at all. They sounded really plain and ordinary. The hdss and large chamber have their earphones that grand reverb that I am guessing the mini will lack. I think auditions are in order, it's just not a good time to go to virus hot spots and put display items in my ears


Thanks - would you be referring to the NT110?  Any first-hand comments?


----------



## TK33

VICosPhi said:


> I could be in a minority in here but Spinfit CP360 do not provide me a good seal for my Momentum2 or 75t, tried all XS,S,M,L sizes. The factory tips provide a better seal than these. The spinfits are much more comfortable though.
> 
> Do you guys know of any other tips similar to Spinfit CP360 designed specially for TWS?



Spinfit has other models. I use both the CP360 and CP100z on TWS.  I think others use the CP100 (different from CP100z). Check the size charts for each specific size when comparing models as one model may not necessarily be larger in every dimension in one size while it may be larger in another.  I found it very confusing and ended up trying a bunch of different sizes for both the CP360 and CP100z.  I use large CP360s for the MTW, large CP100z for the MW07Go and medium CP800s on my Shure wired IEMs.


----------



## actorlife (Aug 1, 2020)

TK33 said:


> Spinfit has other models. I use both the CP360 and CP100z on TWS.  I think others use the CP100 (different from CP100z). Check the size charts for each specific size when comparing models as one model may not necessarily be larger in every dimension in one size while it may be larger in another.  I found it very confusing and ended up trying a bunch of different sizes for both the CP360 and CP100z.  I use large CP360s for the MTW, large CP100z for the MW07Go and medium CP800s on my Shure wired IEMs.


Hi TK! Which spinsfit is the best for soundstage, bright(non sibilant)and great tight bass? I used medium. Thanks in advance.


----------



## Shadowclash10

Has anyone noticed that the Fiil T1X no longer have a page on the fiil website, fiil.com? Weird.


----------



## TK33 (Aug 1, 2020)

actorlife said:


> Hi TK! Which spinsfit is the best for soundstage, bright(non sibilant)and great tight bass? I used medium. Thanks in advance.



The reason I use both the CP100z and CP360 for TWS is because of fit and not necessarily because I feel one model necessarily had a specific sound signature or response (although see the email from Spinfit at the end of this post which suggests otherwise).  When it comes to tips, I think a good seal and fit will impact sound the most.  For the MW07 Go, I use large CP100z because I need longer tips due to the way the fins sit in my ears (all of our ears are obviously shaped differently so this may not be true for you or others).  For the MTW, the medium CP360s sounded terrible to me (I literally threw my first set of S/M CP360s in the trash within 10 minutes, which I later regretted) and I found I got a much better bass response with the medium CP100z but they kept falling out of my ears so I went to the large CP360 because the large CP100z were a bit too uncomfortable for me since the MTW sits more flush in my ears.  For my JBL Reflect Flow, medium CP360s sounded sibilant and lost all bass and I didn't notice much improvements with any of the other tips so I stuck with stock medium tips.  For my Shure SE425, SE535 and SE846 wired IEMs, medium CP800s work great. 

It really is about finding the right fit for your ears for each specific TWS. I found tips matter so much more for TWS because they are the only thing holding the earbuds in your ears.  Below are two emails I had from Spinfit when I first started trying out their tips with TWS which you may find helpful.  Unfortunately, in my opinion, it really is about trial and error.

EMAIL 1:
Hi, thanks for reaching out to us! 
1. CP360 is made from medical grade silicon. The material is definitely softer and thinner than regular silicon, maybe that's what makes the bass performance weaker. CP360 more focus on the comfort level since it's made for TWS specifically and the tube is shortened, to be able to fit in the charging case perfectly and also be swiveled deeper in your ear canals to give you a secure fit. 

2. Yes, CP100Z is also compatible with Sennheiser Momentum True Wireless. The comfort level might not be like CP360 provides, but it sure will have better performance on bass.

Hope you find it helpful! Please feel free to contact us if you have further more questions! 

Regards, 
SpinFit Team.

EMAIL 2:
Hi, thanks for contacting SpinFit! I'm glad to hear that you're enjoying our tips!
1. Large size of CP100Z will be able to fit in your Sennheiser MTW charging case without any problems! The large size of CP100Z is a bit taller than medium size's, and also is wider for sure. I've attached both CP100Z and CP360 size chart in this message for your reference, which you can also find on our product detail page.
2. CP100Z is overall wider than CP360. Medium size of CP100Z is 12.25mm, CP360 is 12mm.
Hope you find it helpful. Please feel free to contact us if you have any problems! 
Regards,
SpinFit Team.


----------



## regancipher

Well, have to say I'm disappointed in the Tronsmart Apollo Bold.

Had high hopes with the new Qualcomm chipset, but as confirmed elsewhere Bluetooth Tweaker shows it fails to pull a clean aptx-hd stream in the way my Avantree Aria do.

Charging case is flimsy, a step back from the Onyx Free, which are brilliant little buds for comfort.

Sound is bass-centric. Microphone is effective at removing background noise but also sounds like you're talking into a pillow.

The silly oval tip design makes practically every foam tip useless on it, as the box closes but the contacts don't meet and thus it won't charge.

Unless Tronsmart's app starts to show signs of promise any time soon these are going back for sure. Shame as I have welcomed their progress from the Spunky Beats through to the Onyx free...these are a bit of an anti climax.

They also screwed with my AX-200, had to reinstall twice, got a BSOD and moving from Headphones to Headset profiles seems borderline impossible. In fact, in Windows 10 they are causing relentless issues. Think they rushed these unfortunately.


----------



## chinmie (Aug 1, 2020)

actorlife said:


> Hi TK! Which spinsfit is the best for soundstage, bright(non sibilant)and great tight bass? I used medium. Thanks in advance.



you'll need eartips that adds length from the mesh of the tws to the end nozzle of the eartips, and also a wider bore of fhe eartips to add soundstage. the best eartips for soundstage would be the JVC Spiral Dots

but you'll need to take into consideration about whether the case can fit those eartips or not


----------



## RobinFood (Aug 1, 2020)

TheLionelHutz said:


> Thanks - would you be referring to the NT110?  Any first-hand comments?



Yes, I tried them in a store a long time ago. They are very forgettable, like a decent but not great 20 something dollars chi-fi wired set.


----------



## eiraku

actorlife said:


> Hi TK! Which spinsfit is the best for soundstage, bright(non sibilant)and great tight bass? I used medium. Thanks in advance.



Just chiming in, I've always found Spins to be a bit bright for me TBH. Hence my preference for Sony Hybrids - even with the L2P.

But unfortunately, the Hybrids don't fit EVERY TWS out there (due to charging cases and such).


----------



## bronco1015

VICosPhi said:


> Did you get a chance to test out battery runtime on your MTW2?


i've been super swamped, but i should be able to tomorrow. i'll post then. I still say if your not getting more than 4 hours than you probably have a lemon pair. i've heard of people getting 5 hours with ANC and more, but not less.


----------



## webvan

eiraku said:


> Just chiming in, I've always found Spins to be a bit bright for me TBH. Hence my preference for Sony Hybrids - even with the L2P.
> 
> But unfortunately, the Hybrids don't fit EVERY TWS out there (due to charging cases and such).


The 360 do indeed add a lot of brightness (even harshness) to the sound for some reason (rubber type?) but the 100 don't do that. Both provide a good grip and generally enhance the fit so often seem great when you switch from stock tips but then you realize they don't offer very good isolation...


----------



## bedlamite

The best-fitting eartips are useless if they don't fit into the charging case of your TWS. That's why the 360s have been my go-to, the M fits me just fine, luckily, and I need those short stems otherwise my darn cases won't close. 

I have regular IEMs outfitted with BT20/s adaptors and I'm rocking Mandarines as well as Tennmak whirlwinds with those but I'm much more constricted, choice-wise, with TWS. I guess you could cut the stems down if you had the tools, but I don't trust myself not to screw things up lol, and some of these tips...they ain't cheap.


----------



## bronco1015

VICosPhi said:


> Did you get a chance to test out battery runtime on your MTW2?


Well, I mentioned a trip i took where i got 4 hrs and thought i was at 50%? i don't think that estimate was correct because this time at 50% volume with ANC, streaming in APTX with Amazon Music HD, i got just a hair over 5 hours. ANC was on the whole time. I so wish there was a way for the left iem to kick in and be the main iem at times, it still had juice. Still, not to bad with ANC on, but i can't remember. was your 4 hours with ANC on? If so, you were likely listening at the volume you normally would, and probably didn't get a defective pair.


----------



## Kvarkmeister (Aug 2, 2020)

Just ordered the Soundpeats Truengine 3SE.

After around five to seven months of use, my FIIL T1 X right earphone started losing some clarity and volume. EQ'ing didn't work very well since the sound profile remained different for L/R, and I really don't like tweaking L/R balance. It had a couple of other quirks and strange product design that I thought it was time to change my gear. I like the Soundpeats shape and design, plus the double drivers! Also looking forward to trying foam tips for the first time. For such a price, I had to do it, however, I fear exercising will be a bit less lenient as they do not feature earwings, perhaps quick charging would have been nice as well.

Anyone know if you could actually see the drivers vibrate?


----------



## Shadowclash10

Kvarkmeister said:


> Just ordered the Soundpeats Truengine 3SE.
> 
> After around five to seven months of use, my FIIL T1 X right earphone started losing some clarity and volume. EQ'ing didn't work very well since the sound profile remained different for L/R, and I really don't like tweaking L/R balance. It had a couple of other quirks and strange product design that I thought it was time to change my gear. I like the Soundpeats shape and design, plus the double drivers! Also looking forward to trying foam tips for the first time. For such a price, I had to do it, however, I fear exercising will be a bit less lenient as they do not feature earwings, perhaps quick charging would have been nice as well.
> 
> Anyone know if you could actually see the drivers vibrate?


Is that the driver flex problem that other people said they had?

Darn! everytime I think I've found THE tws, someone comes along or says something, or I realaize I hate that sound sugnature, or it doesn't have volume controls, or the case is too big, or....


----------



## hyoureki

Anyone who's tried the WF-1000XM3 and the Melomania 1 think it's worth adding the Tevi's to my arsenal? I don't love the sound of the Melomania's (the low mids are a bit too bloated for me) but they're a great workout set, something the Sony's are definitely not suited for.


----------



## Shadowclash10

What do you guys normally get battery life wise for the Fiil T1X and the Bomaker SIfi II? Does anyone have both?


----------



## howdy

hyoureki said:


> Anyone who's tried the WF-1000XM3 and the Melomania 1 think it's worth adding the Tevi's to my arsenal? I don't love the sound of the Melomania's (the low mids are a bit too bloated for me) but they're a great workout set, something the Sony's are definitely not suited for.


I have XM3 and Tevis (among others). I like the Sonys better but the Tevis are right up there with the best. They stay in yours rather well and for work outs I believe they are water proof. The only thing I really don't like is the button but I can use my phone or watch for volume or switching songs.


----------



## MadMike (Aug 2, 2020)

howdy said:


> I have the Spinfit CP100 on my XM3.


Just received the Sedna Earfit Xelastec tips - Wow, talk about snug fit! My XM3s don't feel like they are going anywhere with these! Mind you, I was using the medium foam tips supplied with the XM3s and while they had a pretty good seal, these are ridiculous. The Sony foam tips always feel on the verge of falling out (but don't) and didn't quite seal properly in my left ear- very noticeable when mowing the lawn. However, they seemed to behave while out fast walking. Can't wait to try the Xelastic tips on a fast walk. I decided to go with the "M" Xelastic tips for fear that the MS tips might be too small- the M tips are definitely tight. I worry a little bit about long-term comfort with M tips. Could probable get away with the MS tips. I'll update on comfort later.


----------



## Shadowclash10

MadMike said:


> Just received the Sedna Earfit Xelastec tips - Wow, talk about snug fit! My XM3s don't feel like they are going anywhere with these! Mind you, I was using the medium foam tips supplied with the XM3s and while they had a pretty good seal, these are ridiculous. The Sony foam tips always feel on the verge of falling out (but don't) and didn't quite seal properly in my left ear- very noticeable when mowing the lawn. However, they seemed to behave while out fast walking. Can't wait to try the Xelastic tips on a fast walk. I decided to go with the "M" Xelastic tips for fear that the MS tips might be too small- the M tips are definitely tight. I worry a little bit about long-term comfort with M tips. Could probable get away with the MS tips. I'll update on comfort later.


Kinda silly that you gotta rely on 3rd part tips considering that Sony includes SO MANY tips in with the WF-100XM3s. Sony should do better.


----------



## Kvarkmeister (Aug 2, 2020)

Shadowclash10 said:


> Is that the driver flex problem that other people said they had?
> 
> Darn! everytime I think I've found THE tws, someone comes along or says something, or I realaize I hate that sound sugnature, or it doesn't have volume controls, or the case is too big, or....


Yeah, I hate that too. With these earphones, it's like a box of chocolate for what kind of issue you might get, haha. However, many users are satisfied with the product and don't have any of the described issues, plus it comes with a one-year warranty. If you take your chances, you have an excellent pair of earphones otherwise.

Have you looked into the 3SE's, though. To me, it looks like a nice competitor to FIIL. They lack earwings, quick charging and an iOS/Android application, but do rock those dual drivers, TWS+ connection, better battery life among whatnot else. And hopefully better quality control.


----------



## Shadowclash10

Kvarkmeister said:


> Yeah, I hate that too. With these earphones, it's like a box of chocolate for what kind of issue you might get, haha. However, many users are satisfied with the product and don't have any of the described issues, plus it comes with a one-year warranty. If you take your chances, you have an excellent pair of earphones otherwise.
> 
> Have you looked into the 3SE's, though. To me, it looks like a nice competitor to FIIL. They lack earwings, quick charging and an iOS/Android application, but do rock those dual drivers, TWS+ connection, better battery life among whatnot else. And hopefully better quality control.


I have, but Scarbir makes the Fiil T1Xs sound more appealing. ATM I have some Enacfire E60s, but the fit is terrible and I don't have a pair of Complys or any other foam tips at hand rn. Plus, the case doesn't look like it would any other third-party tips. I think I will return them, get the Fiil T1Xs and the Bomaker Sifi IIs, (which Amazon offers free returns for), and see which one I like more. Both seem pretty similar.


----------



## Shadowclash10

bronco1015 said:


> Haven't read through the whole thread yet, so you may already have what you need. But When i read your revised preferences, jabra 75T comes to mind. no they don't have earhooks, but they are small and stay in the ear well. They are IP5, so were the 65T's and i used to swim with those daily until i sold them. i've seen referbs for $100-120. Out of the box the sound will probably not be what you're after, but theres a jabra app with an eq, and the settings are saved to the iems. Also, they have an ambiant mode that can be activated, so either one of you can hear your environment with music playing if you want. They're also pretty good for calls as well and charge via USB-C. Edit, another pair with hooks if you can find them for cheaper, as they aren't worth the msrp of $149.99 are the PSB M4U TW1. Also IP5 rated, no ambiant mode, only codec is SBC, but like any bluetooth headset or source, it's all about the implementation, and SBC isn't as bad as it's always made out to be when it's integrated into a product correctly.


Wait, you SWAM with IPX5?? Like, full submersion?


----------



## Kvarkmeister

Shadowclash10 said:


> I have, but Scarbir makes the Fiil T1Xs sound more appealing. ATM I have some Enacfire E60s, but the fit is terrible and I don't have a pair of Complys or any other foam tips at hand rn. Plus, the case doesn't look like it would any other third-party tips. I think I will return them, get the Fiil T1Xs and the Bomaker Sifi IIs, (which Amazon offers free returns for), and see which one I like more. Both seem pretty similar.


Aye, good luck! Bomakers looked very attractive when I saw them as well.


----------



## VICosPhi

bronco1015 said:


> Well, I mentioned a trip i took where i got 4 hrs and thought i was at 50%? i don't think that estimate was correct because this time at 50% volume with ANC, streaming in APTX with Amazon Music HD, i got just a hair over 5 hours. ANC was on the whole time. I so wish there was a way for the left iem to kick in and be the main iem at times, it still had juice. Still, not to bad with ANC on, but i can't remember. was your 4 hours with ANC on? If so, you were likely listening at the volume you normally would, and probably didn't get a defective pair.


Thanks, that sounds closer to my experience. I got about 4 hours 10 minutes of battery life with ANC on and 50% volume, I guess this is the sacrifice for the great sound quality these provide over APTX.


----------



## Shadowclash10

VICosPhi said:


> Thanks, that sounds closer to my experience. I got about 4 hours 10 minutes of battery life with ANC on and 50% volume, I guess this is the sacrifice for the great sound quality these provide over APTX.


It's annoying when you have to deal with much reduced battery life for aptX.


----------



## Kvarkmeister

I can actually confirm that my FIIL's have a driver flex issue after I looked into the topic. It all adds up. At first I thought the rubbery plastic noise when moving the earphones was just the silicone eartip fault, but it was actually (probably) sudden air pressure changes in the earphone. Scary! And since I have a weird right ear canal, I played with the right earphone much more than the left one, hence why the sound has downgraded for the right earphone more than the left one. I did some testing with different earphones and eartips and found I have two pairs that have the flexing issue.

I feel pretty enlightened. Next time I'll have to be more careful with how I handle earphones with this squeaking noise.


----------



## _daRK

Shadowclash10 said:


> Kinda silly that you gotta rely on 3rd part tips considering that Sony includes SO MANY tips in with the WF-100XM3s. Sony should do better.


So many tips? You think these MANY (two) types in 3 different sizes?  But I agree with you, Sony definitely should do better. I had to return them because of comfort/fit issues.


----------



## bronco1015

Shadowclash10 said:


> Wait, you SWAM with IPX5?? Like, full submersion?


Yeah. They're more than capable. and this wasn't at some pool in someone's yard, it was at a local gym. the Pool's deepest point is at 8 feet. To a certain degree i think as long as you don't get the driver wet or very wet, or can dry it off quickly, you'll be fine. IF i still owned the WF XM3, i wouldn't swim with them, but if i'd wanted to work out with them in i wouldn't have worried about it. OP phones up until very recently weren't IPX certified, but some of them were capable of some level of water and dust resistance. But paying for that certification costs money, and not paying for it creates an opportunity for an OEM to pass the savings on to the consumer.
I wouldn't be surprised at all if the WF 1000X M3 had at least an IP4 rating, but between not getting the product certified, and not paying Qualcom for an SOC and access to APTX, they can price the XM3 at a price where they can easily make a profit, but not charge top $ like B&O, M&D and Sennheiser.
AS far as range while under water, i have to keep my phone in an area hidden with my stuff, and other than the occasional studder, i can get a signal, but my phone isn't ever very far away. I grew up near an olympic sized pool and it's 17 feet at it's deepest point. i'm sure i'd have loads of trouble swimming with any Bluetooth headset there.


----------



## Shadowclash10

bronco1015 said:


> Yeah. They're more than capable. and this wasn't at some pool in someone's yard, it was at a local gym. the Pool's deepest point is at 8 feet. To a certain degree i think as long as you don't get the driver wet or very wet, or can dry it off quickly, you'll be fine. IF i still owned the WF XM3, i wouldn't swim with them, but if i'd wanted to work out with them in i wouldn't have worried about it. OP phones up until very recently weren't IPX certified, but some of them were capable of some level of water and dust resistance. But paying for that certification costs money, and not paying for it creates an opportunity for an OEM to pass the savings on to the consumer.
> I wouldn't be surprised at all if the WF 1000X M3 had at least an IP4 rating, but between not getting the product certified, and not paying Qualcom for an SOC and access to APTX, they can price the XM3 at a price where they can easily make a profit, but not charge top $ like B&O, M&D and Sennheiser.
> AS far as range while under water, i have to keep my phone in an area hidden with my stuff, and other than the occasional studder, i can get a signal, but my phone isn't ever very far away. I grew up near an olympic sized pool and it's 17 feet at it's deepest point. i'm sure i'd have loads of trouble swimming with any Bluetooth headset there.


Okay then. I agree, but I still wouldn;t feel comfotable taking relatively expensive buds that re not fully certified into a pool, but YMMV.


----------



## regancipher

Shadowclash10 said:


> I have, but Scarbir makes the Fiil T1Xs sound more appealing. ATM I have some Enacfire E60s, but the fit is terrible and I don't have a pair of Complys or any other foam tips at hand rn. Plus, the case doesn't look like it would any other third-party tips. I think I will return them, get the Fiil T1Xs and the Bomaker Sifi IIs, (which Amazon offers free returns for), and see which one I like more. Both seem pretty similar.



I would take Scarbir's findings with a degree of trepidation. I use almost the same testing procedures are Bart, have produced and dj'd to a pretty decent level so my treble response is flawed admittedly, but whilst he's spot on a lot of the time he seems to have blind spots for certain sets/brands. 

I never understood the hype on the FIILS - they're decent but nothing special and the anker range always score well despite consistently performing very average in my testing.

I sent the E60's straight back. If you want a mini set that fit well, sound ordinary and cost little look at the Tronsmart Onyx Free, at least they are super comfy.


----------



## Shadowclash10

ssouthall6 said:


> I would take Scarbir's findings with a degree of trepidation. I use almost the same testing procedures are Bart, have produced and dj'd to a pretty decent level so my treble response is flawed admittedly, but whilst he's spot on a lot of the time he seems to have blind spots for certain sets/brands.
> 
> I never understood the hype on the FIILS - they're decent but nothing special and the anker range always score well despite consistently performing very average in my testing.
> 
> I sent the E60's straight back. If you want a mini set that fit well, sound ordinary and cost little look at the Tronsmart Onyx Free, at least they are super comfy.


I agree, the fit isn't great and neither is the SQ. Is that why you returned yours? Actually, I don;t care too much about size, but what I do want is Type C, >5 hours of battery life, and full controls. The Onyx Free DID look promising, but they aren't on Amazon, and Aliexpress says 1 month shipping, which I don't want. So far, my options are the Fiil T1X and the Bomaker Sifi II.


----------



## regancipher

Shadowclash10 said:


> I agree, the fit isn't great and neither is the SQ. Is that why you returned yours? Actually, I don;t care too much about size, but what I do want is Type C, >5 hours of battery life, and full controls. The Onyx Free DID look promising, but they aren't on Amazon, and Aliexpress says 1 month shipping, which I don't want. So far, my options are the Fiil T1X and the Bomaker Sifi II.


I've been testing sets throughout lockdown.

The enacfire e60 were uncomfortable and the SQ average, the Ugreen Hi-Tune were similarly uncomfortable but sounded far better. Comfort is more important for me. Controls are excellent on the Onyx Free btw.

I also really like the Boltune BT-BH024. They're USB-C, controls are a bit iffy but ok, SQ is a little bass heavy but very full with the right tips. They've been clever about how they arrange the mic array as well. They have their issues - the mic can get muddy when you're walking (although is outstanding indoors) but they are very good for the money, and I hate stem shaped buds.

Whereabouts are you? I'm in UK, they're on Amazon - I got both the Free and the BT-BH024 for £29 from Amazon.

The most promising all-rounders are the Tronsmart Apollo but they have a lot of work to do to get them perfect. Type c, controls are good but expensive and not a complete product IMO.

I've tried contacting both them and Boltune, neither have replied yet. Inairs on the other hand are happy to work wih me on redesigning their foam tips, great company!


----------



## Shadowclash10

ssouthall6 said:


> I've been testing sets throughout lockdown.
> 
> The enacfire e60 were uncomfortable and the SQ average, the Ugreen Hi-Tune were similarly uncomfortable but sounded far better. Comfort is more important for me. Controls are excellent on the Onyx Free btw.
> 
> ...


Tronsmart Onyx Free are not avaialbe on Amazon US . I've completely sworn off stem-based, so...


----------



## RemoGaggi

RemoGaggi said:


> I have some Tranya T10's on the way to test.  They should arrive on Monday.  Stay tuned (pun intended)......



My Tranya T10's arrived a day early.  My initial first 5 minute impression is that they are super balanced and natural sounding.  Great passive noise isolation.  They remind me of my Haylou GT1 Plus, but much, much more powerful and impactful.  The T10's have 12mm drivers, but these are certainly not overdone with the large driver.  I'm really liking these at the moment.  High musicality factor right out of the box.  I will give a more detailed review after I spend more time with these.


----------



## Shadowclash10

Hey @Tronsmart Official, when will we get your TWS products on Amazon US? ATM you guys only sell speakers in the States on Amazon.


----------



## FYLegend

Luchyres said:


> For those of us curious about the "ambient" capabilities of the N6 Mini - this is from their FAQ on Nuarl's site:


A bit disappointing that it stops music. Doesn't seem as seamless as other implementations.

Can someone confirm that Bomaker SiFi II case doesn't work with standard IEM eartips (like Audio-Technica)? What about Galaxy Buds+ eartips?

I'm using AT tips on my Sabbat E12 Ultra now - it is much better seal and fit than the stock tips but can still get loose. The bass also sounds more boomy and warm with these tips, hard to get used to after using the Galaxy Buds+ for so long. Currently they're my PC go-to, wondering if there's a Wavelet equivalent on PC.


----------



## ayres

Hi all, good thread here... 

I have a question: can anyone recommend a 'AirPod-like' bluetooth earbud that supports aptx?  I'd prefer something that doesn't seal, and I'm having a hard time in my searching.  Thanks!


----------



## Shadowclash10

ayres said:


> Hi all, good thread here...
> 
> I have a question: can anyone recommend a 'AirPod-like' bluetooth earbud that supports aptx?  I'd prefer something that doesn't seal, and I'm having a hard time in my searching.  Thanks!


Well, just from a quick search, there's the Edifier TWS200, and the SoundPEATS True Air.


----------



## actorlife

chinmie said:


> you'll need eartips that adds length from the mesh of the tws to the end nozzle of the eartips, and also a wider bore of fhe eartips to add soundstage. the best eartips for soundstage would be the JVC Spiral Dots
> 
> but you'll need to take into consideration about whether the case can fit those eartips or not


Those JVC I had my eyes for a long time I just can’t spend $25-35 on ear tips. I can understand $5-12.


----------



## actorlife

eiraku said:


> Just chiming in, I've always found Spins to be a bit bright for me TBH. Hence my preference for Sony Hybrids - even with the L2P.
> 
> But unfortunately, the Hybrids don't fit EVERY TWS out there (due to charging cases and such).


I think I have some older Sony Hybrids on some earbuds that were on most of my earbuds. I’ll give them a go. I’ll probably order the spinfits just to try.


----------



## actorlife

Shadowclash10 said:


> Tronsmart Onyx Free are not avaialbe on Amazon US . I've completely sworn off stem-based, so...


eBay bro. That where I got my awesome Spunky beats.


----------



## Shadowclash10

actorlife said:


> Those JVC I had my eyes for a long time I just can’t spend $25-35 on ear tips. I can understand $5-12.


Right? Especially when tips may very well not fit, they are uncomfortable, foam ones deteriorate, etc.


----------



## Shadowclash10

Oooh, new Tozo NC9/20Decibel clone? Scarbir just reviewed the Taotronics Soundliberty 94. Better than the Tozo NC9, and full controls compared to the 20Decibel. Invisible online, the only references were Scarbir and his link to them on Amazon Germany. Maybe cause he's in the Netherlands, he was able to get them? Not even on the Taotronics website yet.


----------



## chinmie

actorlife said:


> Those JVC I had my eyes for a long time I just can’t spend $25-35 on ear tips. I can understand $5-12.



yup, totally understandable, as it's still may not fit perfectly or it may change the sound not to your liking. 
it's only that i haven't found a cheaper version of eartips that's similar to those JVCs.. same as those spinfits,haven't found a cheaper substitute yet


----------



## Tronsmart Official

phaeton70 said:


> Today I got my pair of Tronsmart Apollo Bold, and I must say I'm impressed for the price.
> Yes bass is very uplifted related to what I'm used with my other cans, but very easily corrected with some eq (I use Spotify and MXPlayer). When bass-corrected, these earbuds sound IMHO quite good (I say "quite good" with regards to the other cans I have), and if I think about the price I would say they sound really very good.
> But I don't agree on other things I have read here. Noise reduction is IMHO very good (to be an in-ear I mean), but maybe this depends on the particular auricle shape, don't know. In my case, I can say it is really very good, very much better than other ANC in-ears I have tried.
> Comfort wise, again I would say they are very good, light and very stable in the ear.
> ...


Hi，paheton70,
Thank you very much for your sharing!  Tronsmart always provides the best high performance products with the cheapest price!


----------



## bronco1015

Shadowclash10 said:


> Okay then. I agree, but I still wouldn;t feel comfotable taking relatively expensive buds that re not fully certified into a pool, but YMMV.


i get such a huge discount on jabra products from work that it made it worth the risk lol. Otherwise i totally agree. otherwise the only iems i've swam with are $30-$45 pairs like the MPOW T5.


----------



## Tronsmart Official

ssouthall6 said:


> Well, have to say I'm disappointed in the Tronsmart Apollo Bold.
> 
> Had high hopes with the new Qualcomm chipset, but as confirmed elsewhere Bluetooth Tweaker shows it fails to pull a clean aptx-hd stream in the way my Avantree Aria do.
> 
> ...


Hi, ssouthall,
Sorry for the incovenience and thanks for your feedback. Apollo Bold doesn't support aptX HD at present. We are working together with Qualcomm to research. 
About the foam tip, we have got feedback once the first group of users received. Now it is more comforatble.
App will come in September. It also supports OTA update. You will find more interesting things with the APP.
About the microphone, I will forward your feedback to our PM. Please be confident with us. Tronsmart will keep improving.
About the last question, can you please tell me more details? Unfortunately, I cannot get your point. What's the problem with Window 10?

Thank you very much for your feedback.
Please let us know if you have any other question.


----------



## Shadowclash10

Tronsmart Official said:


> Hi, ssouthall,
> Sorry for the incovenience and thanks for your feedback. Apollo Bold doesn't support aptX HD at present. We are working together with Qualcomm to research.
> About the foam tip, we have got feedback once the first group of users received. Now it is more comforatble.
> App will come in September. It also supports OTA update. You will find more interesting things with the APP.
> ...


AptX HD is set to release with the app release, right? Do you have a timeline for when you plan to make your TWSs available on Amazon US?


----------



## Shadowclash10

chinmie said:


> yup, totally understandable, as it's still may not fit perfectly or it may change the sound not to your liking.
> it's only that i haven't found a cheaper version of eartips that's similar to those JVCs.. same as those spinfits,haven't found a cheaper substitute yet


That's the annoying thing about tip rolling. When you consider that most chi-fi buds are <$50, and tips are from $10-20, well, there's a problem.


----------



## baskingshark

Shadowclash10 said:


> That's the annoying thing about tip rolling. When you consider that most chi-fi buds are <$50, and tips are from $10-20, well, there's a problem.



Yeah it is a bit annoying at the start, but once u dive deeper into the hobby, after a few months u will amass a collection of tips. Tips are actually a very very overlooked part of an IEM. Tips can literally break or make an IEM, not only for fit/comfort/isolation, but to change the sound signature too. For example, most folks get a bad fit with stock tips on the BLON BL-03, but fit it well, and the magical sound appears. In fact, I've salvaged a few IEMs that sounded pretty bad to me with stock tips, just by putting on a new pair of tips.

FWIW I do find the cheap KZ starlines to be very bang for buck for me, they are only a few cents each. One doesn't need to really break the bank to get the latest Xelastec tips or custom ear tips actually.
Alternatively u can use this flip method (credit to Slater) to gain extension and length on a standard cheap KZ eartip to make it longer for short nozzle IEMs (eg BLON BL-03).
Slater's reverse KZ starline mod: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/flip-tips-prepare-to-have-your-mind-blown.906357/ (credit to Slater).

I generally find foam tips lower the treble, whereas wider bore silicone tips boost the treble, while narrower bore silicone tips boost bass, YMMV as we all have different ear anatomies.


----------



## RemoGaggi

FYLegend said:


> A bit disappointing that it stops music. Doesn't seem as seamless as other implementations.
> 
> Can someone confirm that Bomaker SiFi II case doesn't work with standard IEM eartips (like Audio-Technica)? What about Galaxy Buds+ eartips?
> 
> I'm using AT tips on my Sabbat E12 Ultra now - it is much better seal and fit than the stock tips but can still get loose. The bass also sounds more boomy and warm with these tips, hard to get used to after using the Galaxy Buds+ for so long. Currently they're my PC go-to, wondering if there's a Wavelet equivalent on PC.



I can confirm that the SiFi II case is the dumbest case ever designed for TWS enthusiasts.  If the replacement eartip is the slightest bit deeper *or* wider than the largest stock eartip, the earbud will not charge and the case won't close.  The cutout literally does not allow for *any* extra room.  I couldn't get the SiFi II to fit correctly in my ear with the stock tips.  I was able to get them work well with some other tips I had, but then it wouldn't fit in the case.  I returned the SiFi II.  Don't bother with these if you want to use other tips.


----------



## chinmie

Shadowclash10 said:


> That's the annoying thing about tip rolling. When you consider that most chi-fi buds are <$50, and tips are from $10-20, well, there's a problem.



still a much better investment than cable rolling though   
i even sometimes buy cheap IEMs that have unique eartips just for the eartips alone, and gift the IEM for families/friends if i happen not liking the sound. 

TWS world complicates it a bit more because of the case...now i have to research the market for those shorter TWS eartips


----------



## hi-fi amateur

At the moment do you guys prefer a BT adapter or TWS? I’m conflicted about which of these options would be best.


----------



## tgx78 (Aug 3, 2020)

BT adapters (bt20s) hurt my ears. TWS for me.


----------



## baskingshark

hi-fi amateur said:


> At the moment do you guys prefer a BT adapter or TWS? I’m conflicted about which of these options would be best.



I prefer BT adapters like BT20S or BT20. YMMV, we all have our preferences and budgets.

I like that one can reuse an existing detachable IEM with these, especially if you like the sound signature of said IEM. Plus these adapters aren't too shabby in terms of sound quality, battery life and connectivity.

I generally find the wireless gear are possibly limited in lifespan with their battery life, so even if the BT adapter battery dies or there are advances in BT technology, the IEM can at least be preserved.


----------



## Tronsmart Official

Shadowclash10 said:


> AptX HD is set to release with the app release, right? Do you have a timeline for when you plan to make your TWSs available on Amazon US?


Hi，
We are working with Qualcomm now. Wish it will be released in September if there is no problem. 
About buying on Amazon, we already shipped to US, it will be avaliable very soon.


----------



## phaeton70

Tronsmart Official said:


> Hi，paheton70,
> Thank you very much for your sharing!  Tronsmart always provides the best high performance products with the cheapest price!



well, don't know about your other products, but these Apollo are definitely a good bang for the buck.
I have one request: can you please add in the (future) app a L/R balance control?


----------



## hifihov (Aug 3, 2020)

soldiersixteen said:


> Do they connect fine with you laptop? I had a lot of issued with my Sony wf-1000xm3, mic not working or the sound from videos on laptop was stuttering.


Thought I had replied, but I might have not hit the submit button.

The Buds+ are great with a surface go/win10, and mac/catalina, but the mic wont work with old mac hardware.

Hope that helps.


----------



## chinmie

hi-fi amateur said:


> At the moment do you guys prefer a BT adapter or TWS? I’m conflicted about which of these options would be best.



if sound is not a variable (as preference is really subjective), I'd pick TWS for overall convenience. maybe if the BT20 Pro is released this might change, because it introduces easier carry and charging, making it really closer to true TWS


----------



## stephenlee2801

sarv said:


> So I returned my 1more ANC (left one stopped working). Now looking for new best one to buy. Looking for everyday use, class and gym
> 1. Sony xm3
> 2. Airpods pro on Android?.
> 3.  Apollo.
> ...


I think the technology is mature enough so that it isn't a bad time to go ahead with any of the options above. I think they're all good options with different strengths. I have a friend who uses the APP with Android and it's his preferred option. It doesn't seem as though using the APP with Android is inconvenient (of course not as convenient as use with an iPhone) and is at least as convenient as any other true wireless earbuds.


----------



## Tronsmart Official

phaeton70 said:


> well, don't know about your other products, but these Apollo are definitely a good bang for the buck.
> I have one request: can you please add in the (future) app a L/R balance control?


Hi, phaeton,
Thanks for your feedback. I have given the feedback to our PM. We may consider in future.


----------



## FYLegend

hifihov said:


> Thought I had replied, but I might have not hit the submit button.
> 
> The Buds+ are great with a surface go/win10, and mac/catalina, but the mic wont work with old mac hardware.
> 
> Hope that helps.


I've had a rather poor experience with music playback on my Win10 laptop and when using SBC on Android. So you're saying it sounds good on Surface Go?

Can you confirm it with this track (pay attention to the "airy" vocal synth in the song intro).


I used the Buds+ the other day for a zoom call and the recipient thought it sounded quite faint even though I maxxed the volume. Note that I do have a fan open and used "ambient sound for calls".


----------



## FYLegend

RemoGaggi said:


> I can confirm that the SiFi II case is the dumbest case ever designed for TWS enthusiasts.  If the replacement eartip is the slightest bit deeper *or* wider than the largest stock eartip, the earbud will not charge and the case won't close.  The cutout literally does not allow for *any* extra room.  I couldn't get the SiFi II to fit correctly in my ear with the stock tips.  I was able to get them work well with some other tips I had, but then it wouldn't fit in the case.  I returned the SiFi II.  Don't bother with these if you want to use other tips.


Wow, that's a shame. I was considering getting them when they went on sale on Amazon.ca, but I guess not now that the sale has ended and we are going into a new week with no good TWS deals (it seems to alter every 1-2 weeks between many good TWS on sale and meh BT devices)


----------



## TheLionelHutz

FYLegend said:


> A bit disappointing that it stops music. Doesn't seem as seamless as other implementations.
> 
> Can someone confirm that Bomaker SiFi II case doesn't work with standard IEM eartips (like Audio-Technica)? What about Galaxy Buds+ eartips?
> 
> I'm using AT tips on my Sabbat E12 Ultra now - it is much better seal and fit than the stock tips but can still get loose. The bass also sounds more boomy and warm with these tips, hard to get used to after using the Galaxy Buds+ for so long. Currently they're my PC go-to, wondering if there's a Wavelet equivalent on PC.


I don't think it's saying that hear-through stops the music. I think it's saying that you have to start/stop hear-through with music stopped, but then you can play music with it on. It will auto-stop if you answer/make a call.


----------



## hifihov

FYLegend said:


> I've had a rather poor experience with music playback on my Win10 laptop and when using SBC on Android. So you're saying it sounds good on Surface Go?
> 
> Can you confirm it with this track (pay attention to the "airy" vocal synth in the song intro).
> 
> ...



Sounds fine. The Buds+ are quieter than my wired IEMs, so had to turn the volume up a little.

Switching between the Buds+ and wired IEMs I can hear all the instruments. The sound signature is different, but my wired IEMs cost more so that’s to be expected.

I use the Buds+ daily on Zoom call and no complaints from my colleagues.

I use  as a test also, the Buds+ are a tad too bassy, compared to my wired IEMs, but produce a nice sound.


----------



## Bhelpoori

stephenlee2801 said:


> I think the technology is mature enough so that it isn't a bad time to go ahead with any of the options above. I think they're all good options with different strengths. I have a friend who uses the APP with Android and it's his preferred option. It doesn't seem as though using the APP with Android is inconvenient (of course not as convenient as use with an iPhone) and is at least as convenient as any other true wireless earbuds.


I have an APP with Android and also use it with several Apple devices. The APP does work with Android about as well as any other TWS without an Android application. It is pretty stable for me using the current 2D27 version of the APP software, which is something it hasn't always been on Android...

However, you will be missing several "nice to have" parts of the APP experience and several more interesting features coming in iOS 14 such as automatic switching between devices. I'm not sure how critical they will be for you but it is definitely a more sparse experience on Android.


----------



## sarv

Bhelpoori said:


> I have an APP with Android and also use it with several Apple devices. The APP does work with Android about as well as any other TWS without an Android application. It is pretty stable for me using the current 2D27 version of the APP software, which is something it hasn't always been on Android...
> 
> However, you will be missing several "nice to have" parts of the APP experience and several more interesting features coming in iOS 14 such as automatic switching between devices. I'm not sure how critical they will be for you but it is definitely a more sparse experience on Android.


Tried my girls APP with my S20ultra, seems to be working fine, just not liking the sound I'm getting out of then, bass seem to be lack luster, will try XM3 soon. Cheers for your help man.


----------



## Caipirina

ayres said:


> Hi all, good thread here...
> 
> I have a question: can anyone recommend a 'AirPod-like' bluetooth earbud that supports aptx?  I'd prefer something that doesn't seal, and I'm having a hard time in my searching.  Thanks!


Tronsmart Onyx Ace come to mind. Currently limited time deal on Amazon De, if you are in EU

have not listened to them myself though
Can’t vouch for SQ. My experience with Tronsmart has been positive so far.


----------



## Caipirina (Aug 3, 2020)

Shadowclash10 said:


> Oooh, new Tozo NC9/20Decibel clone? Scarbir just reviewed the Taotronics Soundliberty 94. Better than the Tozo NC9, and full controls compared to the 20Decibel. Invisible online, the only references were Scarbir and his link to them on Amazon Germany. Maybe cause he's in the Netherlands, he was able to get them? Not even on the Taotronics website yet.


Wow, that was not easy to find  Scarbir rolled it all into one review. And on amazon.de the designation  Taotronics Soundliberty 94 is missing, it’s called the TT-BH094 DE ...
I actually came across them about a week ago, but only someone with Bartig’s huge arsenal of buds can realize that those are clones ..,
If they really sound the same. I still wonder if I would rather get the Tozo for 60€ over the TaoTronics for 80€. While ambient mode is cool, I rarely use it.


----------



## GloriousGenMacArthur

hi-fi amateur said:


> At the moment do you guys prefer a BT adapter or TWS? I’m conflicted about which of these options would be best.



I'm mixed. I have TWS for convenience in phone calls, around the house and mowing the lawn listening. But use the HB1 for listening with my favorite IEMs while still being on the go. 
Really only use the HB1 for workout and cycling but they work very good for just that.


----------



## Shadowclash10

RemoGaggi said:


> I can confirm that the SiFi II case is the dumbest case ever designed for TWS enthusiasts.  If the replacement eartip is the slightest bit deeper *or* wider than the largest stock eartip, the earbud will not charge and the case won't close.  The cutout literally does not allow for *any* extra room.  I couldn't get the SiFi II to fit correctly in my ear with the stock tips.  I was able to get them work well with some other tips I had, but then it wouldn't fit in the case.  I returned the SiFi II.  Don't bother with these if you want to use other tips.


Do you know if any Complys or any other kind of foam tips fit?


----------



## VICosPhi

Sennheiser MTW2 are available for $282 on Amazon US which is not a big a discount but these always sell for $299 from what I have seen


----------



## Shadowclash10

RemoGaggi said:


> I can confirm that the SiFi II case is the dumbest case ever designed for TWS enthusiasts.  If the replacement eartip is the slightest bit deeper *or* wider than the largest stock eartip, the earbud will not charge and the case won't close.  The cutout literally does not allow for *any* extra room.  I couldn't get the SiFi II to fit correctly in my ear with the stock tips.  I was able to get them work well with some other tips I had, but then it wouldn't fit in the case.  I returned the SiFi II.  Don't bother with these if you want to use other tips.


Actually, the dumbest case would be the Enacfire E60s . The case is very tiny, which is nice, but the largest stock tips are still TINY. I mean, the largest size would prob be like a small irl, and the small stock tips can only fit a baby .


----------



## Shadowclash10

VICosPhi said:


> Sennheiser MTW2 are available for $282 on Amazon US which is not a big a discount but these always sell for $299 from what I have seen


They are relatively new, and we generally don't see great discounts on Senn products anyway, I think.


----------



## Shadowclash10

hi-fi amateur said:


> At the moment do you guys prefer a BT adapter or TWS? I’m conflicted about which of these options would be best.


Gonna say neither is better, it depends on your use case. If you are fine with the over-ear earhooks, the fact that no released model has a charging case (yet) doesn't bother you, and maybe you already have some good IEMs etc etc then adapters are probably better. I don;t have any really high-end IEMs, and I don't wanna put up with no charging case and the earhook design, so I go with TWS, but, if, say, the tech evolves to a point where the adapter part is tiny enough that you don't have an ear-hook design (which will probably never happen, we'll be beyond BT by that point), or I get a really high-end pair of IEMs, then count me in.


----------



## Shadowclash10

Tronsmart Official said:


> Hi，
> We are working with Qualcomm now. Wish it will be released in September if there is no problem.
> About buying on Amazon, we already shipped to US, it will be avaliable very soon.


Does this apply to your older models as well, like the Onyx Free?


----------



## Shadowclash10

FYLegend said:


> Wow, that's a shame. I was considering getting them when they went on sale on Amazon.ca, but I guess not now that the sale has ended and we are going into a new week with no good TWS deals (it seems to alter every 1-2 weeks between many good TWS on sale and meh BT devices)


Welp, Fiil T1Xs are/were down on Amazon US by a few bucks, might be worth checking if that is happening on Amazon.ca


----------



## Shadowclash10

Bhelpoori said:


> I have an APP with Android and also use it with several Apple devices. The APP does work with Android about as well as any other TWS without an Android application. It is pretty stable for me using the current 2D27 version of the APP software, which is something it hasn't always been on Android...
> 
> However, you will be missing several "nice to have" parts of the APP experience and several more interesting features coming in iOS 14 such as automatic switching between devices. I'm not sure how critical they will be for you but it is definitely a more sparse experience on Android.


Right, they just are like other TWSs without any special integrations or anything.


----------



## Shadowclash10

Caipirina said:


> Wow, that was not easy to find  Scarbir rolled it all into one review. And on amazon.de the designation  Taotronics Soundliberty 94 is missing, it’s called the TT-BH094 DE ...
> I actually came across them about a week ago, but only someone with Bartig’s huge arsenal of buds can realize that those are clones ..,
> If they really sound the same. I still wonder if I would rather get the Tozo for 60€ over the TaoTronics for 80€. While ambient mode is cool, I rarely use it.


Right? No other references to them online. Oh, and @Bartig, if you see this, the title of your Tozo NC9/20Decibel review wasn't updated to include the Taotronics Libertysound 94. People probably won't notice that there is a new clone in town. 

I would go for the Tozo NC9 as well, but if the two were priced the same, I would likely go for the TaoTronics because they have full controls (to turn off ANC on the NC9, you have to put them back in the case first). I'm not sure if they actually have BT 5.1, cause the other two versions don't. Even if theydo, it's kinda useless. It isn't like BT 5.0, which increased range and connection strength comapred to 4.1, and all that - as far as I know, 5.1 just reduces battery consumption when trying to pair, and it is supposed to pair a bit faster. I don't know if the source device must also have 5.1 for these changes to work.


----------



## Bhelpoori

Shadowclash10 said:


> Right, they just are like other TWSs without any special integrations or anything.


True except they don’t need a Bluetooth disconnect when moving from one device to another.


----------



## erockg

Shadowclash10 said:


> They are relatively new, and we generally don't see great discounts on Senn products anyway, I think.


Just dropped to $257, shipped and sold by Amazon.


----------



## Luke Skywalker

jant71 said:


> Yes, so many terms. I do distinguish based on how you can use it. Just like with my JVC the tips are ambient tips and the pass through mode is just to talk to someone for a bit and even though I can adjust the volume I would use the tips for ambient situations long term whole time listening. The mics on isn't the way to go if you want awareness on a run. The mics give the wind and plenty of unwanted stuff.
> 
> On another note I did comes across this while browsing. About the N10 Pro.
> 
> "  The N6 Pro uses a "SWCNT composite diaphragm" in which two vibrating membranes, single-walled carbon nanotubes and PEEK, are vacuum deposited and bonded together, but the N10 Pro uses a further advanced driver." Some speculated it is just the N6 Pro driver but it is actually an improved version. They released a new earphone the NX1 with a driver called...  NUARL DRIVE[N10]v5X, a 10mm dynamic driver developed by the company, featuring a single-walled carbon nanotube composite diaphragm, a 7N-grade OCC voice coil, and a dual magnetic circuit with neodymium magnets inside and outside the voice coil. Not sure if it the same driver in the N10 Pro. They do want $330 for that new earphone.


I wonder when and where I can order the N10?  All the pages I find are in Japanese or something


----------



## FYLegend

TheLionelHutz said:


> I don't think it's saying that hear-through stops the music. I think it's saying that you have to start/stop hear-through with music stopped, but then you can play music with it on. It will auto-stop if you answer/make a call.


Yeah, that's still unnecessary in my opinion, I want to be able to have the music still playing. All models with hearthrough I have used allow you to still play music while initiating it.



hifihov said:


> Sounds fine. The Buds+ are quieter than my wired IEMs, so had to turn the volume up a little.
> 
> Switching between the Buds+ and wired IEMs I can hear all the instruments. The sound signature is different, but my wired IEMs cost more so that’s to be expected.
> 
> ...



Interesting. I'm hearing a scratchy artifact only present when using the SBC codec. I was told by multiple users of the same issue though a few said it sounded fine. For whatever reason Samsung set a low bitpool than typical for SBC. Considering you're using a first-party Microsoft product I wonder if it is related to Bluetooth drivers and whether they can force a high bitrate. Unfortunately it sounds poor on my ASUS Zenbook Pro 15 (BT5.0, Intel drivers) and my Note 9 when using SBC.



Shadowclash10 said:


> Welp, Fiil T1Xs are/were down on Amazon US by a few bucks, might be worth checking if that is happening on Amazon.ca


Sadly Fiil T1X has never been listed on Amazon.ca period, except some ripoff third-party sellers. I guess I could try Amazon.com and pay the 20$ import fee... There's also Geekbuying but it's pretty slow in my experience. I ordered my Tronsmart Onyx Neo through Aliexpress and they used Geekbuying's shipping method. It took 5 days to process the order on Aliexpress (I've had other sellers ship within 2-3 days, but this one only shipped within 12 hours of the deadline), and shipping another 2 weeks via UBI (the total process should only be 10 days as with ePacket, as my other UBI order arrived in that time). When I received it, the location marked was that of Geekbuying in Ontario, even though my tracking clearly showed a direct route from China to Vancouver. Not to mention the product turned out to be defective as with nearly every other TWS I have used so far.

In the current situation I'm wondering what Aliexpress sellers still use UBI or ePacket. I see more "Standard Shipping" listings nowadays.

I just got an email about the 1MORE ColorBuds - unfortunately the 20% discount code isn't working on Amazon.ca despite my email saying it should!


----------



## Coffeegeek

Sorry if this has already been hashed over , but I just went though about 100 pages of the thread and couldn't find a specific review.  Has anyone yet done a direct comparison of the Fill T1X and T1XS?  I've had the T1x now for ages and they pretty much fulfilled everything I wanted other than ambient passthrough - they are highly isolating the way they are even without any ANC.  When I happened to notice last week the T1XS I thought I'd check Scarabir, but it doesn't look like Bart has reviewed them yet?  

Anyway, I just want to know if they are worth the upgrade.

Thanks!


----------



## tgx78

FYLegend said:


> Yeah, that's still unnecessary in my opinion, I want to be able to have the music still playing. All models with hearthrough I have used allow you to still play music while initiating it.
> 
> 
> Interesting. I'm hearing a scratchy artifact only present when using the SBC codec. I was told by multiple users of the same issue though a few said it sounded fine. For whatever reason Samsung set a low bitpool than typical for SBC. Considering you're using a first-party Microsoft product I wonder if it is related to Bluetooth drivers and whether they can force a high bitrate. Unfortunately it sounds poor on my ASUS Zenbook Pro 15 (BT5.0, Intel drivers) and my Note 9 when using SBC.
> ...




If you don't mind a used pair.. https://www.canuckaudiomart.com/details/649636284-fiil-t1x-tws/


----------



## Caipirina

This might be a bit of an odd observation / question, but my MW07 (classic, the ones I got with coupon for 99.50€ directly from M&D) have quite the funky scent! 
Not sure if it is the case or the buds or both. It reminds me of burnt plastic / burnt electrical wiring. But everything is working fine. Anyone else had that? 
Is it that ‘New’ toy smell?


----------



## actorlife

tgx78 said:


> If you don't mind a used pair.. https://www.canuckaudiomart.com/details/649636284-fiil-t1x-tws/


Says local Canada only. 🇨🇦 I think he is in Europe.


----------



## jant71

Luke Skywalker said:


> I wonder when and where I can order the N10?  All the pages I find are in Japanese or something



Well, convince them to become American. Then they will release first here. 

Money shots...
https://fccid.io/NCC/CCAN20LP0710T7/zqlMD2MV080=


----------



## WuWei82

I was about to pull the trigger on a pair of FiiL t1x after reading Scarbir's piece and a few good things on this thread when @d3myz mentioned they're quite cool sounding and a little thin in comparison to a few other budget tws. 

I returned a pair of Cambridge Melomania 1s due to them sounding too light and lacking any kind of punch for my ears. They were also far too quiet via my iphone 6 which I found very frustrating and probably didn't help with the impactfulness. 

How does the the sound sig of the t1x compare with the Melo 1's? Are they as quiet/light?


----------



## Luke Skywalker

jant71 said:


> Well, convince them to become American. Then they will release first here.
> 
> Money shots...
> https://fccid.io/NCC/CCAN20LP0710T7/zqlMD2MV080=


Awesome dude thank you.  I’m gonna grab a pair as soon as they’re for sale. i love my N6P’s and adding ANC will be sweet


----------



## VZWDJ

I have a few pairs for sale if anyone is interested...Pixel Buds 2, Ticpods ANC, and Tickansa ANC...all posted in the For Sale forums PM if interested.


----------



## Shadowclash10

Bhelpoori said:


> True except they don’t need a Bluetooth disconnect when moving from one device to another.


That only works for Apple devices connected to yur ICloud acc, right?


----------



## Tronsmart Official

Shadowclash10 said:


> Does this apply to your older models as well, like the Onyx Free?


Hi, Shadowclash,
Sorry the APP is only for Apollo as the firmware is different.


----------



## Shadowclash10

Coffeegeek said:


> Sorry if this has already been hashed over , but I just went though about 100 pages of the thread and couldn't find a specific review.  Has anyone yet done a direct comparison of the Fill T1X and T1XS?  I've had the T1x now for ages and they pretty much fulfilled everything I wanted other than ambient passthrough - they are highly isolating the way they are even without any ANC.  When I happened to notice last week the T1XS I thought I'd check Scarabir, but it doesn't look like Bart has reviewed them yet?
> 
> Anyway, I just want to know if they are worth the upgrade.
> 
> Thanks!


The XS hasn't gained much coverage yet. I believe Scarbir got them, cause he said so on his Twitter like 1 month ago, but he hasn;t reviewed them yet. I would say no.From what little I've seen, the biggest thing I have seen is the case shrunk, but you can get T1Xs for somewhere between $35 (if you get a good deal) - max $50 (unless you have to pay VAT or smth). The XS is at $80. Not really worth it IMO. If it dropped to $50 or so, maybe, but only if you really like your T1X. And there aren't really any reviews yet.


----------



## Shadowclash10

Tronsmart Official said:


> Hi, Shadowclash,
> Sorry the APP is only for Apollo as the firmware is different.


Actualy, what I meant was will you be bringing your older models like the Onyx Free to Amazon.us as well?


----------



## Shadowclash10

Tronsmart Official said:


> Hi, Shadowclash,
> Sorry the APP is only for Apollo as the firmware is different.


Actualy, what I meant was will you be bringing your older models like the Onyx Free to Amazon.us as well?


jant71 said:


> Well, convince them to become American. Then they will release first here.
> 
> Money shots...
> https://fccid.io/NCC/CCAN20LP0710T7/zqlMD2MV080=


Does anyone else feel like they remind you of the Edifier TWS NB?


----------



## Shadowclash10

Caipirina said:


> This might be a bit of an odd observation / question, but my MW07 (classic, the ones I got with coupon for 99.50€ directly from M&D) have quite the funky scent!
> Not sure if it is the case or the buds or both. It reminds me of burnt plastic / burnt electrical wiring. But everything is working fine. Anyone else had that?
> Is it that ‘New’ toy smell?


Do you mean fresh? or burnt burnt? Considering they are acetate, it feels _wrong _that they smell burnt to you LOL.


----------



## Shadowclash10

erockg said:


> Just dropped to $257, shipped and sold by Amazon.


Now down to $237 on Amazon.us, sold by Sennheiser.  Only the black version tho. https://www.amazon.com/Sennheiser-Momentum-True-Wireless-Cancellation/dp/B085LVV8R7

Original Momentum True Wireless is down to $190 and $175, sold by Senn on Amazon.us. Exact same thing, so I have no reason why there are two different listings: 
https://www.amazon.com/Sennheiser-T...6NK94VNTG8B&psc=1&refRID=64AGW7HB66NK94VNTG8B

https://www.amazon.com/Sennheiser-M...6NK94VNTG8B&psc=1&refRID=64AGW7HB66NK94VNTG8B

Sorry for the long form. I have no idea why, but when I try to change the text shown, the link then redirects to World Wide Stereo. So weird...


----------



## VICosPhi

Shadowclash10 said:


> Now down to $237 on Amazon.us, sold by Sennheiser.  Only the black version tho. https://www.amazon.com/Sennheiser-Momentum-True-Wireless-Cancellation/dp/B085LVV8R7



Deal dead already, looks like it lasted for only a few hours.


----------



## logiatype

Any stalk type (like Anker Liberty Air 2) with decent sq and 10 band EQ?


----------



## Caipirina

WuWei82 said:


> I was about to pull the trigger on a pair of FiiL t1x after reading Scarbir's piece and a few good things on this thread when @d3myz mentioned they're quite cool sounding and a little thin in comparison to a few other budget tws.
> 
> I returned a pair of Cambridge Melomania 1s due to them sounding too light and lacking any kind of punch for my ears. They were also far too quiet via my iphone 6 which I found very frustrating and probably didn't help with the impactfulness.
> 
> How does the the sound sig of the t1x compare with the Melo 1's? Are they as quiet/light?


I returned my Melos 1 for pretty much same reasons: found the sound not very engaging, the fit was so so .. nothing really to fall in love with ...


----------



## AudioNoob

I've got the Apollo Bold, Spunky Beat App edition, Onyx Ace, if anybody has any questions. I will post reviews later.
Apollo Bold is definitely bass focused. It is palpable with ANC off but gets a little overbearing with ANC on. The ANC works pretty well for lower frequencies, it would help a lot with an airplane engine etc.
Both the Bold and the Beat case fit third party tips. Using my favourite tips (Final E), I can get a good seal in both of them. While the Bold comes with high quality tips, the oval bore makes it a challenging fit especially if you have large canals like I do. With the Spunky Beats, the included tips are a not as robust as the Bold. Putting the Final tips for a good seal unfortunately brings quite a bit of driver flex with it.
Onyx Ace is a bit strange, it sounds quite veiled, even muffled, at lower volumes. Will look more into it.


----------



## phaeton70

AudioNoob said:


> Apollo Bold is definitely bass focused.


indeed. after some experimentations I'm using this eq (through the embedded Samsung eq): -2@63 -4@125 -2@250 +1@8k +2@16k , with this eq I really love the sound of these earbuds, still not perfectly linear but very funny. 
one thing I've noted: after some 10h the bass levels down a little bit (or the mid/highs levels up a little bit, not sure) so give them some time to settle


----------



## Bhelpoori

Shadowclash10 said:


> That only works for Apple devices connected to yur ICloud acc, right?


This is independent of iCloud. Let's say you have 2 Android devices: A and B. The APP is connected to A but has been paired with B previously. On B all I need to do is go to Bluetooth Settings (or shortcut, more normally) and connect to the APP. I don't need to go to the Bluetooth menu on A to disconnect. 

iCloud on iOS 13 means your pairing information is shared across all iOS/iPad OS devices, thus on Android you need to pair to each device (so you need to pair to B, which you don't on iOS). iOS 14 changes this a bit, but I'll leave that for when it is released.


----------



## Peddler

phaeton70 said:


> indeed. after some experimentations I'm using this eq (through the embedded Samsung eq): -2@63 -4@125 -2@250 +1@8k +2@16k , with this eq I really love the sound of these earbuds, still not perfectly linear but very funny.
> one thing I've noted: after some 10h the bass levels down a little bit (or the mid/highs levels up a little bit, not sure) so give them some time to settle



I've also noticed that the bass becomes a little better behaved after a few days of use. I've also noticed that changing the tips for ones that can go a little deeper also helps.

I've found that these work great when listening in bed with the volume set really low. The additional bass really works well then. I really don't want to eq because I'm using these with my Sony NW-A55 which doesn't feature eq when using Bluetooth headphones.


----------



## regancipher

AudioNoob said:


> I've got the Apollo Bold, Spunky Beat App edition, Onyx Ace, if anybody has any questions. I will post reviews later.
> Apollo Bold is definitely bass focused. It is palpable with ANC off but gets a little overbearing with ANC on. The ANC works pretty well for lower frequencies, it would help a lot with an airplane engine etc.
> Both the Bold and the Beat case fit third party tips. Using my favourite tips (Final E), I can get a good seal in both of them. While the Bold comes with high quality tips, the oval bore makes it a challenging fit especially if you have large canals like I do. With the Spunky Beats, the included tips are a not as robust as the Bold. Putting the Final tips for a good seal unfortunately brings quite a bit of driver flex with it.
> Onyx Ace is a bit strange, it sounds quite veiled, even muffled, at lower volumes. Will look more into it.



That's interesting. I have a good contact at INAIRS, who I find to be the best out there for comfort/performance in the foam tip market. They had nothing that could fit the Apollo Bold, so I bought a load of random tips in the hope one would work.

Bizarrely, whilst it appears to have no right to fit on paper, this fits like a glove, and is on offer on amazon at the moment - https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B07WG5Q129/ref=ppx_od_dt_b_asin_title_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

They even fit my Boltune BT-BH024, can be removed relatively easily, don't stick in the air when you remove the bud and now I can close the box on both and they actually charge without deforming the tip! Bought another set today to see if they fit the Onyx free. Will probably send to INAIRS to see if they can develop something of their quality in that sort of shape


----------



## regancipher (Aug 4, 2020)

phaeton70 said:


> indeed. after some experimentations I'm using this eq (through the embedded Samsung eq): -2@63 -4@125 -2@250 +1@8k +2@16k , with this eq I really love the sound of these earbuds, still not perfectly linear but very funny.
> one thing I've noted: after some 10h the bass levels down a little bit (or the mid/highs levels up a little bit, not sure) so give them some time to settle



I noticed the same. Actually, the FR is now pretty flat after two days use to the point I find I don't even have to EQ them. 

Acid test for me is the bassline on Only Love Can Break Your Heart by Saint Etienne in FLAC. If that clips then I know I've got a dud. It reproduces the sound on the Apollo almost perfectly, certainly no bass clipping. Only problems I've had is on badly mixed down mp3's (whoever masters Calvin Harris's tracks needs to go back to music school)


----------



## Thomas De Brito

Coffeegeek said:


> Sorry if this has already been hashed over , but I just went though about 100 pages of the thread and couldn't find a specific review.  Has anyone yet done a direct comparison of the Fill T1X and T1XS?  I've had the T1x now for ages and they pretty much fulfilled everything I wanted other than ambient passthrough - they are highly isolating the way they are even without any ANC.  When I happened to notice last week the T1XS I thought I'd check Scarabir, but it doesn't look like Bart has reviewed them yet?
> 
> Anyway, I just want to know if they are worth the upgrade.
> 
> Thanks!


The ambient pass-thu does not do much on the fiil t1xs


----------



## phaeton70

ssouthall6 said:


> I noticed the same. Actually, the FR is now pretty flat after two days use to the point I find I don't even have to EQ them.



yes, same here. I started with -6@32 and now I'm at -2@32 ... hopefully with more time these earbuds will not need any eq


----------



## Sebulr

I've just ordered another ceppeky for £24 from Amazon. They are quite good, my bomaker sifi 2 didn't turn up. The ceppeky are tws plus, which is a bonus. Not quite as good as the bomaker sifi 1 , but the case battery life is better. I think they last about 5 hours aac with tws plus which all my other sets don't do. 
Also as a bonus my extra large tips fit in the case which never happens with any of my other tws sets. I think they are the same model as xunpul.


----------



## Sebulr

I meant it is my first tws plus set. Can't find the edit button on my phone


----------



## Coffeegeek (Aug 4, 2020)

WuWei82 said:


> I was about to pull the trigger on a pair of FiiL t1x after reading Scarbir's piece and a few good things on this thread when @d3myz mentioned they're quite cool sounding and a little thin in comparison to a few other budget tws.
> 
> I returned a pair of Cambridge Melomania 1s due to them sounding too light and lacking any kind of punch for my ears. They were also far too quiet via my iphone 6 which I found very frustrating and probably didn't help with the impactfulness.
> 
> How does the the sound sig of the t1x compare with the Melo 1's? Are they as quiet/light?



Cool and thin are the complete opposite of the T1x in my experience.  Absolutely not the case.  I do not eq them through the app either - I found they sound best on default to me.  The only way I could think they sound anything but warm and full is if you had the wrong size eartips, but that goes for any of these.


----------



## ilatimer1

So I'm a big fan of the MW07 Plus. I couldn't resist getting the BAPE limited edition. So now I have two pair of the MW07 Plus. If someone is interested I would make you a great deal on my Steel Blue pair. Let me know if you are interested.


----------



## WuWei82

Coffeegeek said:


> Cool and thin are the complete opposite of the T1x in my experience.  Absolutely not the case.  I do not eq them through the app either - I found they sound best on default to me.  The only way I could think they sound anything but warm and full is if you had the wrong size eartips, but that goes for any of these.



Ah well that's good to hear. I have some Symbio tips that fit very well. How easy are they 'amped' via your device? Loud enough?


----------



## Shadowclash10

Sebulr said:


> I meant it is my first tws plus set. Can't find the edit button on my phone


Do you have a recent Android phone? Cause if I remember correctly, TWS +, like BT codecs and versions, needs to be implemented on your source device as well.


----------



## Sebulr

Never looked into it. I use a huawei mate 20 lite. I chose the lite because it has a headphone jack . I guess it has tws plus because I can put each ear phone away individually and power off and the other keeps playing. Both left and right, and I have only 1 pairing. None of my others do this. I haven't checked for multipoint connectivity however.


----------



## dwells

Galaxy Buds Plus in blue are $70 on Woot right now. Worth return the Aukey EP-N5 and spending the extra $20?


----------



## assassin10000

dwells said:


> Galaxy Buds Plus in blue are $70 on Woot right now. Worth return the Aukey EP-N5 and spending the extra $20?



Possibly, I haven't heard the ep-n5. Excellent battery life, small case and good features.

I personally found the buds+ despite being a harman tuned a bit lean or cold sounding for my tastes and also a hair too emphasized for the upper mid/lower treble. I listen at low volumes too (which means it should help how it sounds more, ie: fletcher munson curve).


----------



## Caipirina

dwells said:


> Galaxy Buds Plus in blue are $70 on Woot right now. Worth return the Aukey EP-N5 and spending the extra $20?


Do the buds+ have ANC?


----------



## assassin10000

Caipirina said:


> Do the buds+ have ANC?



No. They do have ambient.


----------



## Shadowclash10

dwells said:


> Galaxy Buds Plus in blue are $70 on Woot right now. Worth return the Aukey EP-N5 and spending the extra $20?


BTW there will likely be more and more Buds + deals in the next few days and weeks - Galaxy Unpacked is tomorrow, and Samsung is supposed to launch the Buds Live then.


----------



## Shadowclash10

Caipirina said:


> Do the buds+ have ANC?


No, just ambient.


----------



## baskingshark

Saw this on Audioreviews FB page: https://www.facebook.com/groups/audioreviews/permalink/4308347089205569/

Looks like it is confirmed the TRN BT20S Pro has swappable modules (not sure if these are sold separately or preincluded) and has a charging casing just as we thought! I'm surprised the CHIFI companies didn't release this swappable modular thingy before, quite innovative for a BT adapter.

I just hope battery life and connectivity and QC are good. My BT20 and BT20S had a few QC issues, so keeping fingers crossed.


----------



## axhng

baskingshark said:


> Saw this on Audioreviews FB page: https://www.facebook.com/groups/audioreviews/permalink/4308347089205569/
> 
> Looks like it is confirmed the TRN BT20S Pro has swappable modules (not sure if these are sold separately or preincluded) and has a charging casing just as we thought! I'm surprised the CHIFI companies didn't release this swappable modular thingy before, quite innovative for a BT adapter.
> 
> I just hope battery life and connectivity and QC are good. My BT20 and BT20S had a few QC issues, so keeping fingers crossed.



looks really promising, doesn't look like the case will have the space to accommodate the IEMs themselves unlike the iBasso Audio CF01, but this is a lot more compact looking and it's TRN, so definitely won't be as expensive. Having a charging case for the adapters is definitely a lot more convenient than using cables.


----------



## baskingshark

axhng said:


> looks really promising, doesn't look like the case will have the space to accommodate the IEMs themselves unlike the iBasso Audio CF01, but this is a lot more compact looking and it's TRN, so definitely won't be as expensive. Having a charging case for the adapters is definitely a lot more convenient than using cables.



Looks like from the discussion there, there's no APTX HD or LDAC, not sure if this is a deal breaker for some. And the modules seems to be sold separately, bummer. At least I hope they can bundle the MMCX and 2 pin modules in a cheaper package if possible.


----------



## assassin10000 (Aug 5, 2020)

baskingshark said:


> Looks like from the discussion there, there's no APTX HD or LDAC, not sure if this is a deal breaker for some. And the modules seems to be sold separately, bummer. At least I hope they can bundle the MMCX and 2 pin modules in a cheaper package if possible.



I'm hoping the TWS side is a convenient connector to find to make my own ear hooks. I prefer a 'soft' ear hook with a straight MMCX end vs. the usual spring wire angled MMCX.

I'm fine with APT-X or AAC. Hoping battery life is the same as the BT20S, adds volume control, removes blinking while playing and has a lower noise floor.


----------



## baskingshark

Anyway friends just to ask, for your TWS/BT dongles and maybe even DAPs/amps, do you only charge them when the battery is almost depleted? Or do you top up charging "sips" at regular intervals even with just slight battery usage?

Which would preserve battery lifespan in the long run? TIA!!


----------



## bronco1015

First impressions of the Apollo Bold, just about sound, connectivity and controls. i get a great fit with the smallest stock tips, i haven't had any dropouts so far with them. how i tested BT range was first walking around my apartment. no drops or studder walking through the whole place, going into different rooms etc. Then i went down a flight of stairs and outside, my phone still on my desk. Stood right by the metal doors for a second, no studdering. walked outside about 5 feet and got the first studder but was very brief. walked around the parking lot and had some studdering here and there, but didn't have any major issues until was almost across the street from my building.
Sound, initially my thoughts are that theres a bit to much sub bass for my liking, but it isn't a constant thing, just something i notice here and there.  IMO these have pretty great instrument separation and placement.
controls are not to sensitive imo, and are organized well. 1 tap on left for volume down, 1 tap on right volume up, 2 taps on either play-pause, 3 taps on either cycles between ambiant, ANC and passive, the announcement comes through only on the iem you tap and prompts only occur while cycling between the various modes. Also, music doesn't stop when switching to ambiant.
i'll share more about ANC and ambiant when i dive deeper into the sound, but so far i'm liking what i'm hearing.


----------



## bedlamite (Aug 5, 2020)

The BT20/s are so cheap l just got both MMCX and 0.75mm versions lol. Constant unplugging and replugging the connectors can't be a good thing, and I'm not crazy about that case. Just makes it as bulky as any other TWS with a charging case. What I like about the 20/s is how they kind of tread a middle ground between BT headset and full-blown TWS, the Pros kind of lose that.

edit: the connectors are sold separately? What's the point then?


----------



## chinmie

bedlamite said:


> The BT20/s are so cheap l just got both MMCX and 0.75mm versions lol. Constant unplugging and replugging the connectors can't be a good thing, and I'm not crazy about that case. Just makes it as bulky as any other TWS with a charging case. What I like about the 20/s is how they kind of tread a middle ground between BT headset and full-blown TWS, the Pros kind of lose that.
> 
> edit: the connectors are sold separately? What's the point then?



the price of the BT20/S are almost similar to most mid priced cables anyway, that's why i too prefer to purchase several of them than constantly switching. 

but the pro still has it's appeal, because for traveling it's easier to charge and store them than always bringing the Y cable. also by using those swappable connectors (combined with the charging case) it may be cheaper to buy one unit and add several connectors than buying multiple BT20S


----------



## gibletzor

Wow.  So easy to get out of touch with all this!  I had a baby back in early April and with the terrible new post notification system, I completely forgot about this!  Had ~300 pages to catch up on the last few days.

I got my Tranya T10s a couple of days ago.  So far I have a love/hate relationship with them.  They definitely have potential, but they seem to be VERY picky about tips.  So far I've had the best luck with the Misodoko Pro foam tips, some random ones I found in my collection that are probably from another TWS set but I can't remember which one, and oddly enough the Galaxy Buds+ tips sound great on them too.  Those tips don't even sound that great on the GBuds+!  With the right tips, the sound is amazing!  Mids and highs aren't as defined as the B530 or B530+, but almost there.  The bass has the potential to be monstrous.  I had to dial it back a bit in the EQ to not overpower everything else.  The only thing I'm not happy with thus far is that without the right tips and more EQing than any of my other Tranyas, they get distorted in the upper mids and lower highs.  Like electric guitars take on an almost scratchy quality that is uncomfortable and male vocals can get distorted.

Comfort-wise, they're right up there with the other Tranya products I love.  Not quite as form fitting as the B530s, but pretty darn close.  They don't look like they would be as big as they are.

I think I still prefer my B530s, but I'm going to give these some workouts to see if they can get the kinks out.  If the audio quality can match the B530s after some burn-in, then a B530 with USB-C and Qi charging is a no-brainer!


----------



## clerkpalmer

Anyone intrigued by the Galaxy Beans?  I kind of am.  I may take a flyer on them and see...


----------



## TK33

clerkpalmer said:


> Anyone intrigued by the Galaxy Beans?  I kind of am.  I may take a flyer on them and see...



I have been watching them too. Mostly interested in call quality vs. Buds+ as I have been holding off on the Buds+ since the Buds Live was supposed to come out soon (announced today apparently). Really just need something for calls in a small package.  I was intent on getting the Buds+ and then I ditched my Galaxy S9 in favor of the LG V60 so I decided to wait since I wouldn't benefit from the extra features you get in the Samsung ecosystem.

Looking forward to some reviews and impressions.


----------



## clerkpalmer

A couple of months ago, someone posted a link to a small audio company developing a planar TWS.  I can't find the post.  If anyone can point me to it, I would appreciate it.  I was going to follow up on the progress.


----------



## VICosPhi

Okay Samsung Galaxy Buds live (Beans) can be had for $169 and they go on sale tomorrow! Apparently they have rubber inserts and not the conventional tips.


----------



## clerkpalmer

VICosPhi said:


> Okay Samsung Galaxy Buds live (Beans) can be had for $169 and they go on sale tomorrow! Apparently they have rubber inserts and not the conventional tips.


I grabbed a pair in white.  Wanted black but it wasn't available.  You can order the white right now.  This is definitely a flyer - if the form factor works, I would absolutely love to not have to jam them into my ear canals.


----------



## gibletzor

clerkpalmer said:


> Anyone intrigued by the Galaxy Beans?  I kind of am.  I may take a flyer on them and see...


I've got the Buds+, but I'm going to keep an eye on these.  If the SQ is the same or close to the Buds+ and it's got ANC, I'll live with the lower battery life.


----------



## clerkpalmer

gibletzor said:


> I've got the Buds+, but I'm going to keep an eye on these.  If the SQ is the same or close to the Buds+ and it's got ANC, I'll live with the lower battery life.


My hope is the SQ gets closer to the N400 ... battery is rated at 8 hours.


----------



## TK33

clerkpalmer said:


> I grabbed a pair in white.  Wanted black but it wasn't available.  You can order the white right now.  This is definitely a flyer - if the form factor works, I would absolutely love to not have to jam them into my ear canals.


Where did you order from? Looking forward to your impressions.


----------



## clerkpalmer

TK33 said:


> Where did you order from? Looking forward to your impressions.


Samsungs website.


----------



## VZWDJ

Still have like new Pixel Buds 2 for sale...PM me if interested...Thanks


----------



## TK33

clerkpalmer said:


> Samsungs website.



Interesting.  I didnt see a way to order it before.  Now I only see black available and not white (I recall you wanted black but ordered white).

https://www.samsung.com/us/mobile/audio/headphones/galaxy-buds-live-black-sm-r180nzkaxar/


----------



## eiraku (Aug 5, 2020)

Sebulr said:


> Never looked into it. I use a huawei mate 20 lite. I chose the lite because it has a headphone jack . I guess it has tws plus because I can put each ear phone away individually and power off and the other keeps playing. Both left and right, and I have only 1 pairing. None of my others do this. I haven't checked for multipoint connectivity however.



Unfortunately "True" TWS+ is dependent on the type of processor used (specifically the Snapdragon series starting from 845 and beyond) AND software/firmware/ROM implementation.

And specifically, it will (or at least "should") show BOTH headphones being connected at the same time (with a "primary" designated) through the Bluetooth settings page, with APT-X TWS+ being selected as the codec. This happens with my Creative Outlier Airs on my OP6 with SD 845 + Android 10 (note that the COAs never connected through TWS+ on the same phone in Android 8, hence "software implementation").

Why? Because unfortunately it's Qualcomm tech and that's how they're playing it (unlike licensing the tech as they've done with Apt-X).

Strangely enough, the only real difference between Master-Slave TWS (my L2P) and "True" TWS+ (my COA) that I've seen is that if the "master/primary" earbud is put back into the case (and turned off), the L2P will pause (requiring a manual re-play to continue) and the COA will drop connection for a second before automatically resuming playback on its own.

If the slave/secondary earbud is put into the case with both my L2P and COAs, nothing happens and playback continues as usual for both.

Oh and battery drain differences (Master-Slave drains the Master more while TWS+ doesn't seem to have much observable difference in drain between the primary/secondary buds). That said, the L2P seems to switch Masters from time-to-time (on its own or possibly with every re-connection, not sure) to mitigate this drain.

As for why my L2Ps aren't doing TWS+, well, it just doesn't for some reason. Which is weirder considering the COAs does it fine.


----------



## clerkpalmer

TK33 said:


> Interesting.  I didnt see a way to order it before.  Now I only see black available and not white (I recall you wanted black but ordered white).
> 
> https://www.samsung.com/us/mobile/audio/headphones/galaxy-buds-live-black-sm-r180nzkaxar/


Thanks for the tip.  White cancelled.  Black ordered.  They look strange enough - I think low key is better in this circumstance.


----------



## Shadowclash10

clerkpalmer said:


> My hope is the SQ gets closer to the N400 ... battery is rated at 8 hours.


I think you mean up to 6 hours?


----------



## assassin10000

clerkpalmer said:


> Thanks for the tip.  White cancelled.  Black ordered.  They look strange enough - I think low key is better in this circumstance.



I wonder if there will be a best buy edition in that darker blue.



Shadowclash10 said:


> I think you mean up to 6 hours?



6 with ANC, 8 without.


----------



## clerkpalmer

Shadowclash10 said:


> I think you mean up to 6 hours?


Looks like up to 8 hours. Enabling ANC and Bixby lower the estimated time.


----------



## clerkpalmer

Ruh Roh - only IPX2.  That may be a deal breaker.  Hmm.


----------



## logiatype

clerkpalmer said:


> Ruh Roh - only IPX2.  That may be a deal breaker.  Hmm.


Any other technical support? Codecs for example?


----------



## clerkpalmer (Aug 5, 2020)

logiatype said:


> Any other technical support? Codecs for example?


Uses Samsung's scaleable codec for sure.  Not sure about others.  Edit - looks like AAC as well.


----------



## assassin10000 (Aug 5, 2020)

clerkpalmer said:


> Uses Samsung's scaleable codec for sure.  Not sure about others.



Probably AAC as well. Since they specifically say that apple users can use their app.


I wonder if they crippled SBC again. It'd be nice if they had APT-X, highly doubtful.


----------



## logiatype

assassin10000 said:


> Probably AAC as well. Since they specifically say that apple users can use their app.
> 
> 
> *I wonder if they crippled SBC again. It'd be nice if they had APT-X, highly doubtful.*



This is exactly what I want to know!


----------



## Shadowclash10

baskingshark said:


> Anyway friends just to ask, for your TWS/BT dongles and maybe even DAPs/amps, do you only charge them when the battery is almost depleted? Or do you top up charging "sips" at regular intervals even with just slight battery usage?
> 
> Which would preserve battery lifespan in the long run? TIA!!


Well, as I understand it, they are almost always lithium ion, so the same rules apply that you would use for your phone. I've stopped topping them off to 100%, I try to keep them <90%, closer to 80%. It also helps if your battery doesn't fully drain. The only times I would charge my stuff up to 100% and let it deplete all the way is if I am using them for a long run, say, an international flight or smth. This does mean that I go for TWS with longer-than-average battery life. Quick charging stresses the battery out, but, sadly, generally (not sure if there are any that give you the option) TWS that have some form of quick charging don;t give you the option to turn it off. Oftentimes, that quick charging feature is very useful, but I don't need them to charge to full in 40 mins when I am going to bed, do I? But, yes, just follow the same guidelines that you would use for your phone.


----------



## Shadowclash10

gibletzor said:


> Wow.  So easy to get out of touch with all this!  I had a baby back in early April and with the terrible new post notification system, I completely forgot about this!  Had ~300 pages to catch up on the last few days.
> 
> I got my Tranya T10s a couple of days ago.  So far I have a love/hate relationship with them.  They definitely have potential, but they seem to be VERY picky about tips.  So far I've had the best luck with the Misodoko Pro foam tips, some random ones I found in my collection that are probably from another TWS set but I can't remember which one, and oddly enough the Galaxy Buds+ tips sound great on them too.  Those tips don't even sound that great on the GBuds+!  With the right tips, the sound is amazing!  Mids and highs aren't as defined as the B530 or B530+, but almost there.  The bass has the potential to be monstrous.  I had to dial it back a bit in the EQ to not overpower everything else.  The only thing I'm not happy with thus far is that without the right tips and more EQing than any of my other Tranyas, they get distorted in the upper mids and lower highs.  Like electric guitars take on an almost scratchy quality that is uncomfortable and male vocals can get distorted.
> 
> ...


Argh. I hate it when buds need you to go tip-rolling . How big roughly is the charging case? Always wary of circular ones, cause they can bulge alot. Roughly how much battery life are you getting out of them?


----------



## TK33

assassin10000 said:


> Probably AAC as well. Since they specifically say that apple users can use their app.
> 
> 
> I wonder if they crippled SBC again. It'd be nice if they had APT-X, highly doubtful.


Agreed. Doubt they will have aptX.  Clearly pushing their scalable codec.


----------



## Shadowclash10

clerkpalmer said:


> A couple of months ago, someone posted a link to a small audio company developing a planar TWS.  I can't find the post.  If anyone can point me to it, I would appreciate it.  I was going to follow up on the progress.


Mmm, well, there is the RHA CL2, but those aren't true wireless, those are in the neckband style. I searched the thread for "planar", but nothing came up... Sorry, I don't remember hearing anything like that.


----------



## TK33

clerkpalmer said:


> Thanks for the tip.  White cancelled.  Black ordered.  They look strange enough - I think low key is better in this circumstance.


Didn't feel like waiting.  3 mics and open style look like what I have been waiting for since I want them primarily for calls.
Just ordered the white one (easier for me to spot when I eventually drop it somewhere like under the bed). Can't stand out any more than my MTWs anyway. 

For anyone having trouble ordering, I don't think the website is working correctly.  I only saw black version available on my phone.  When I went on my desktop PC (Windows 10, Chrome browser) there was no Buy Now button for any of the colors but I noticed it would flash when I switched between colors so I clicked Buy Now really quickly while it was flashing (took a few tries) and was able to add them to my cart.


----------



## clerkpalmer

Shadowclash10 said:


> Mmm, well, there is the RHA CL2, but those aren't true wireless, those are in the neckband style. I searched the thread for "planar", but nothing came up... Sorry, I don't remember hearing anything like that.


Thanks me too.  It was a small audio company - I emailed them about it awhile back and they said August release.  Now I can't find the email.  It was a really interesting item.


----------



## clerkpalmer (Aug 5, 2020)

clerkpalmer said:


> Dont know much about this company but its nice to see some innovation. Anyone familiar with they stuff? Any details on these?


Found it.  Bumping the thread.  Edit - :Seems Obravo is coming up with a planar TWS!"


----------



## eiraku

clerkpalmer said:


> Found it.  Bumping the thread.  Edit - :Seems Obravo is coming up with a planar TWS!"



Ain't planars gonna make them... pretty huge?


----------



## WuWei82

baskingshark said:


> Saw this on Audioreviews FB page: https://www.facebook.com/groups/audioreviews/permalink/4308347089205569/
> 
> Looks like it is confirmed the TRN BT20S Pro has swappable modules (not sure if these are sold separately or preincluded) and has a charging casing just as we thought! I'm surprised the CHIFI companies didn't release this swappable modular thingy before, quite innovative for a BT adapter.
> 
> I just hope battery life and connectivity and QC are good. My BT20 and BT20S had a few QC issues, so keeping fingers crossed.


This tech, if or once good enough would surely make all TWS iem's obsolete.. or maybe not as they are another line of products to fetishize lol

What's the current concensous over sq when comparing these BT adapter modules/wires vs TWS iem's?


----------



## clerkpalmer

eiraku said:


> Ain't planars gonna make them... pretty huge?


They don't look much bigger than an airpod.


----------



## clerkpalmer

WuWei82 said:


> This tech, if or once good enough would surely make all TWS iem's obsolete.. or maybe not as they are another line of products to fetishize lol
> 
> What's the current concensous over sq when comparing these BT adapter modules/wires vs TWS iem's?


My take is the BT20S is a cool product.  Lots of flexibility and  you can turn your higher end better sounding IEMS into tws.  Where it falls flat is that power matching and hiss can be an issue.  And also waterproofing.  I definitely think if SQ is your primary endgame, the BT20 paired with your own iem is the way to go (assuming you can get sufficient power to drive them and don't get hiss).  But TWS are much more integrated.  You get ANC, touch controls, waterproofing, apps etc.  I was into the BT20S for a while but I've gone back to "regular" TWS because they are more versatile and convenient and SQ is pretty damn good.


----------



## Toom

clerkpalmer said:


> My take is the BT20S is a cool product.  Lots of flexibility and  you can turn your higher end better sounding IEMS into tws.  Where it falls flat is that power matching and hiss can be an issue.  And also waterproofing.  I definitely think if SQ is your primary endgame, the BT20 paired with your own iem is the way to go (assuming you can get sufficient power to drive them and don't get hiss).  But TWS are much more integrated.  You get ANC, touch controls, waterproofing, apps etc.  I was into the BT20S for a while but I've gone back to "regular" TWS because they are more versatile and convenient and SQ is pretty damn good.



Yep. I wear my MTW2s in the gym, or when out running etc. - wouldn't want to subject my Solaris 2020s to that kind of action.


----------



## Caipirina (Aug 5, 2020)

EU people!

Wait longer!

Pay more!






The form factor makes me REALLY curious! 

If they really show up on August 21st I might jump on it ... but they screwed up the rls date with the Sony SP800N ... not holding my breath ...


----------



## gibletzor

Shadowclash10 said:


> Argh. I hate it when buds need you to go tip-rolling . How big roughly is the charging case? Always wary of circular ones, cause they can bulge alot. Roughly how much battery life are you getting out of them?


The charging case is roughly the same overall size as the B530.  A little less wide, but a little taller.  It's not huge but a little bulgy in the pocket.  I haven't used them long enough to wear down the batteries in one go yet, so I'm not sure on that.

I'll try to remember to get some comparison pictures of the case tonight when I get home!


----------



## howdy

The Buds live look kinda ug to me, hopefully better looking on person.

On another note, rocking the Earin M2s today, it's been awhile since I have used them. Still love how small they are.


----------



## willyk (Aug 5, 2020)

gibletzor said:


> Wow.  So easy to get out of touch with all this!  I had a baby back in early April and with the terrible new post notification system, I completely forgot about this!  Had ~300 pages to catch up on the last few days.
> 
> I got my Tranya T10s a couple of days ago.  So far I have a love/hate relationship with them.  They definitely have potential, but they seem to be VERY picky about tips.  So far I've had the best luck with the Misodoko Pro foam tips, some random ones I found in my collection that are probably from another TWS set but I can't remember which one, and oddly enough the Galaxy Buds+ tips sound great on them too.  Those tips don't even sound that great on the GBuds+!  With the right tips, the sound is amazing!  Mids and highs aren't as defined as the B530 or B530+, but almost there.  The bass has the potential to be monstrous.  I had to dial it back a bit in the EQ to not overpower everything else.  The only thing I'm not happy with thus far is that without the right tips and more EQing than any of my other Tranyas, they get distorted in the upper mids and lower highs.  Like electric guitars take on an almost scratchy quality that is uncomfortable and male vocals can get distorted.
> 
> ...



l agree.

I've had T10's for over a week now.  The upper-low freqs are somewhat overwhelming.  The mids and highs are a bit muted and overall, they are not really detailed/articulate, IMO.  If you are a bass-head, you may love'em.

That said, they don't really make use of all that 12mm driver surface area, as the enhanced bass is not at the lowest end, where those 12mm's could actually deliver something unique.  The size of the T10's is just incrementally larger than the Tranya Rimor, and they actually fit more securely.  The tap interface is different than other Tranya's in that it takes more than a single tap to pause the audio, which is nice as it avoids interrupting the audio with an unintentional touch.  I like this when running for instance.

The Qualcomm BT chip is way better than the RealTek used in many other Tranya models, providing a really solid BT connection.  Battery lasts as advertised and the wireless charging is nice.

Overall, they are good, and I now use them for running.  SQ wise, I think the Tranya Rimor, B530's and even the old trusty MPOW T5's are more enjoyable for my ears.


----------



## Peddler (Aug 5, 2020)

Review coming soon......


----------



## hmscott (Aug 5, 2020)

I ordered 2 pair of Tranya T10's 08/02 - one from Tranya - $58.78 shipped, and one from Amazon UK $42.23 - both had promo discounts.  Today I received the Tranya T10 from Amazon Uk 08/05, and also received the shipping notice from Tranya today.

I've charged the T10's and connected them to my Windows 10 PC, and so far I'm liking what I am hearing - and the BT connection is stable, with no drama.

I also tried enabling the Loudness enhancement in Windows for the Tranya T10 device, and wow does it kick out solid bass.  Very nice.

The rest of the range is filling out, I'll play them a few days before judging, but I think they sound great.  I'm glad I ordered 2, at least right now I am 

I'll update as I discover anything of interest - I do appreciate the 1-tap volume up / down, that's very nice.


----------



## actorlife (Aug 5, 2020)

gibletzor said:


> Wow.  So easy to get out of touch with all this!  I had a baby back in early April and with the terrible new post notification system, I completely forgot about this!  Had ~300 pages to catch up on the last few days.
> 
> I got my Tranya T10s a couple of days ago.  So far I have a love/hate relationship with them.  They definitely have potential, but they seem to be VERY picky about tips.  So far I've had the best luck with the Misodoko Pro foam tips, some random ones I found in my collection that are probably from another TWS set but I can't remember which one, and oddly enough the Galaxy Buds+ tips sound great on them too.  Those tips don't even sound that great on the GBuds+!  With the right tips, the sound is amazing!  Mids and highs aren't as defined as the B530 or B530+, but almost there.  The bass has the potential to be monstrous.  I had to dial it back a bit in the EQ to not overpower everything else.  The only thing I'm not happy with thus far is that without the right tips and more EQing than any of my other Tranyas, they get distorted in the upper mids and lower highs.  Like electric guitars take on an almost scratchy quality that is uncomfortable and male vocals can get distorted.
> 
> ...


Hey Bro! Congrats on the baby!
I bought a couple of TWS and I am happy with them. The only disappointment was the Tranya T2 battery of 4hrs. Amazon said 7hrs. I kept them cause so cheap and sq is good. Did you sell off the other TWS? I see no mentions of the stuff you had last year. What’s the difference in the older ones I had and the newer B530+($30 sale) you know I really liked them, but had to return them because they didn’t pair together and never got a second pair to try. Stopped using my TWS for a long while. Anbes still going strong!
Got these to see if I like em:
Earphone Tips F FEYCH Premium Replacement Earbud Tips Memory Foam Earphone Tips Blocking Noise Foam Tips Suit for 4.5-6.3mm Nozzle in-Ear Earphones with Storage Box(Meduim, 6 Pairs, Black) https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07SKW5YMH/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_of2kFbECQPRWY


----------



## Dobrescu George

I made a full video review about the Slide Mini from Padme / Pamu. It has the exact same IEMs from the Pamu Unique, I have both and I thought I should mention. Both are natural , somewhat slow, somewhat more romantic type of sound. For 50 USD, I can't fault them, they're really great. More memes, fun in the full video


----------



## VICosPhi (Aug 6, 2020)

So far the Galaxy Buds live seem to have these characteristics from what I have been reading:

- Bassy sound signature with forward mids
- ANC not very effective, same as other TWS or worse
- Mic quality pretty good
- Battery life 5 hours 15 mins with ANC ON
- Wireless charging supported for charging case
- Customizable touch controls via app
- Game mode for reduced latency (doubt that means APTX-LL, probably some other  proprietary tech)


----------



## chinmie

Dobrescu George said:


> I made a full video review about the Slide Mini from Padme / Pamu. It has the exact same IEMs from the Pamu Unique, I have both and I thought I should mention. Both are natural , somewhat slow, somewhat more romantic type of sound. For 50 USD, I can't fault them, they're really great. More memes, fun in the full video




does both your pamu units have really resolving treble that's borderline grating, similar to what the Sony EX1000 have? i really like the Pamu form factor and function. the bass and mids also quite nice, it's just the treble that's really fatiguing for me


----------



## gibletzor

Shadowclash10 said:


> Argh. I hate it when buds need you to go tip-rolling . How big roughly is the charging case? Always wary of circular ones, cause they can bulge alot. Roughly how much battery life are you getting out of them?


From left to right is Mpow T5, Soundcore Liberty 2 Pro, Tranya B530, Tranya T10, and GBuds+ with protective case.  Hope that gives you a better idea of the size of the case!


----------



## gibletzor

actorlife said:


> Hey Bro! Congrats on the baby!
> I bought a couple of TWS and I am happy with them. The only disappointment was the Tranya T2 battery of 4hrs. Amazon said 7hrs. I kept them cause so cheap and sq is good. Did you sell off the other TWS? I see no mentions of the stuff you had last year. What’s the difference in the older ones I had and the newer B530+($30 sale) you know I really liked them, but had to return them because they didn’t pair together and never got a second pair to try. Stopped using my TWS for a long while. Anbes still going strong!
> Got these to see if I like em:
> Earphone Tips F FEYCH Premium Replacement Earbud Tips Memory Foam Earphone Tips Blocking Noise Foam Tips Suit for 4.5-6.3mm Nozzle in-Ear Earphones with Storage Box(Meduim, 6 Pairs, Black) https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07SKW5YMH/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_of2kFbECQPRWY


I still have both pairs of my B530s!  I like the newer plus models with AptX more, but it's such a small difference that if you handed them to me without the case, I couldn't tell you which was which.  The only way I can tell from the case is the newer model has specs in all English on the bottom of the case, and the originals had English mixed with one of the Asian script languages (I couldn't tell you which).  Sound quality wise the pluses are just a tiny bit cleaner and have a little more bass oomph.  But again it's not super noticeable.  
I still use the Tranyas, Liberty 2 Pros, Fiil T1X, and Gbuds+ on a regular basis.  Sometimes break out the Mpows and Alterola IE600 if I'm feeling something different 

I look at the Tranya T2 and T3 every now and then still and put them in my cart every now and then.  Just never pulled the trigger.  I already have more than I can use!


----------



## Dobrescu George

chinmie said:


> does both your pamu units have really resolving treble that's borderline grating, similar to what the Sony EX1000 have? i really like the Pamu form factor and function. the bass and mids also quite nice, it's just the treble that's really fatiguing for me



Maybe you have a fit issue ?

The treble on mine is not very special, not particularly resolving neither interesting, pretty smooth and bland (?) 

Maybe they changed the sound at some point (?) 

I have two of them, both have the same signature, natural - slow - smooth - bassy


----------



## chinmie

Dobrescu George said:


> Maybe you have a fit issue ?
> 
> The treble on mine is not very special, not particularly resolving neither interesting, pretty smooth and bland (?)
> 
> ...



i have seal with other tips. the stock tips also make seal, but breaks them each time i move my jaw. 
the treble is resolving, but not in a particularly good term, meaning it has  like a narrow frequency notch in them, but the highest treble is not cut or shelved, so not what i call smooth at all


----------



## actorlife (Aug 5, 2020)

gibletzor said:


> I still have both pairs of my B530s!  I like the newer plus models with AptX more, but it's such a small difference that if you handed them to me without the case, I couldn't tell you which was which.  The only way I can tell from the case is the newer model has specs in all English on the bottom of the case, and the originals had English mixed with one of the Asian script languages (I couldn't tell you which).  Sound quality wise the pluses are just a tiny bit cleaner and have a little more bass oomph.  But again it's not super noticeable.
> I still use the Tranyas, Liberty 2 Pros, Fiil T1X, and Gbuds+ on a regular basis.  Sometimes break out the Mpows and Alterola IE600 if I'm feeling something different
> 
> I look at the Tranya T2 and T3 every now and then still and put them in my cart every now and then.  Just never pulled the trigger.  I already have more than I can use!


I was listening to the Alterola the other day. Still sound great. I rotate all my TWS. How many hours of battery you getting on the 530s? I remember getting over 8hrs. That’s awesome that they added aptx and cleaner highs. I may get them and send back the T2. I read there is a treble roll off on the T3, so I’d skip them if I were you. Look into the Lypertek Tevi if it goes on sale. Got mine used and I love em.


----------



## jrice1996

I’m looking for a pair of wireless earbuds for working out that are under $100. I’m mostly focused on getting earbuds with great sound quality, particularly earbuds with great bass. Battery life, wireless charging and other features are lower down my list of priorities. I’m a bass-head that primarily listens to rap. Anybody got some suggestions?


----------



## assassin10000

jrice1996 said:


> I’m looking for a pair of wireless earbuds for working out that are under $100. I’m mostly focused on getting earbuds with great sound quality, particularly earbuds with great bass. Battery life, wireless charging and other features are lower down my list of priorities. I’m a bass-head that primarily listens to rap. Anybody got some suggestions?



Jabra 75t maybe?


----------



## gibletzor

actorlife said:


> I was listening to the Alterola the other day. Still sound great. I rotate all my TWS. How many hours of battery you getting on the 530s? I remember getting over 8hrs. That’s awesome that they added aptx and cleaner highs. I may get them and send back the T2. I read there is a treble roll off on the T3, so I’d skip them if I were you. Look into the Lypertek Tevi if it goes on sale. Got mine used and I love em.


I don't often use mine long enough to test the battery life to its fullest, but I'm pretty sure I got about 8.5 hours on my B530 originals once.  Normally I use them for working out or doing outside chores, and I've never had to worry about the battery getting close to empty doing that.


----------



## Tronsmart Official

bronco1015 said:


> First impressions of the Apollo Bold, just about sound, connectivity and controls. i get a great fit with the smallest stock tips, i haven't had any dropouts so far with them. how i tested BT range was first walking around my apartment. no drops or studder walking through the whole place, going into different rooms etc. Then i went down a flight of stairs and outside, my phone still on my desk. Stood right by the metal doors for a second, no studdering. walked outside about 5 feet and got the first studder but was very brief. walked around the parking lot and had some studdering here and there, but didn't have any major issues until was almost across the street from my building.
> Sound, initially my thoughts are that theres a bit to much sub bass for my liking, but it isn't a constant thing, just something i notice here and there.  IMO these have pretty great instrument separation and placement.
> controls are not to sensitive imo, and are organized well. 1 tap on left for volume down, 1 tap on right volume up, 2 taps on either play-pause, 3 taps on either cycles between ambiant, ANC and passive, the announcement comes through only on the iem you tap and prompts only occur while cycling between the various modes. Also, music doesn't stop when switching to ambiant.
> i'll share more about ANC and ambiant when i dive deeper into the sound, but so far i'm liking what i'm hearing.


Thanks for your sharing!


----------



## bronco1015

jrice1996 said:


> I’m looking for a pair of wireless earbuds for working out that are under $100. I’m mostly focused on getting earbuds with great sound quality, particularly earbuds with great bass. Battery life, wireless charging and other features are lower down my list of priorities. I’m a bass-head that primarily listens to rap. Anybody got some suggestions?


 cheap option that may fit the bill the mpow M30, The Tronsmart Apollo bold wouldn't be a bad option either, though you'd have to get it from geekbuying or AE till it's available on Amazon. The soundcore liberty 2 Pro are $129 on Amazon if you are willing to go that far, they fit better than they might look from pics. They are some serious bass monsters and also charge via USB-C and wirelessly which i know weren't highest on your priority list but they are included with this package. Plus they can be used indipendently. Even if you have a phone that doesn't support TWS plus you can always pair each individually and use them if needed. The 75T doesn't do that unfortunately. plus i can say personally when i owned them i got 8 hours out of them which is the advertised battery life. i sold them when i got the nuarl n6 Pro. I kind of regret it.


----------



## phaeton70

jrice1996 said:


> I’m looking for a pair of wireless earbuds for working out that are under $100. I’m mostly focused on getting earbuds with great sound quality, particularly earbuds with great bass. Battery life, wireless charging and other features are lower down my list of priorities. I’m a bass-head that primarily listens to rap. Anybody got some suggestions?



well, maybe the Apollo Bold?


----------



## WuWei82

clerkpalmer said:


> My take is the BT20S is a cool product.  Lots of flexibility and  you can turn your higher end better sounding IEMS into tws.  Where it falls flat is that power matching and hiss can be an issue.  And also waterproofing.  I definitely think if SQ is your primary endgame, the BT20 paired with your own iem is the way to go (assuming you can get sufficient power to drive them and don't get hiss).  But TWS are much more integrated.  You get ANC, touch controls, waterproofing, apps etc.  I was into the BT20S for a while but I've gone back to "regular" TWS because they are more versatile and convenient and SQ is pretty damn good.


Yes SQ definitely the end game for me. I'd sacrifice most other functionality save them being wireless of course! Additionally trying to minimise the amount of devices/iem's is important also and avoiding the new toy novelty thing.

I've seen a very reasonably priced BT wire (KZ atpx HD) that uses atpX HD codec (obviously) which looks to be quite an improvement, in theory, SQ wise on previous codecs. I may try this before pulling the trigger on those FiiL t1x i had my eyes on.


----------



## logiatype

clerkpalmer said:


> You might consider the AKG n400 for 200 on amazon. Compared to the mw07 they are less warm and colored. Less v shaped more balanced. They are my new favorites. You can't go wrong either way. The AKG have ANC and support AAC but not aptx. The Go has no ANC, aptx but no AAC.


It's amazing that the AKG N400 doesn't have aptX when their own bluetooth cable (comes with the n5005) has aptX. Can't understand how these manufacturers think.


----------



## jant71

logiatype said:


> It's amazing that the AKG N400 doesn't have aptX when their own bluetooth cable (comes with the n5005) has aptX. Can't understand how these manufacturers think.



They think profit. No license fee is more profit for them. At $1000 price point there was plenty of profit on the N5005. Not as much on the N400.


----------



## logiatype

jant71 said:


> They think profit. No license fee is more profit for them. At $1000 price point there was plenty of profit on the N5005. Not as much on the N400.


Fair enough. They manage to leave SBC alone on the cable (unlike Samsung) so hopefully the N400 doesn't have the same bitpool issue @FYLegend


----------



## actorlife (Aug 6, 2020)

jrice1996 said:


> I’m looking for a pair of wireless earbuds for working out that are under $100. I’m mostly focused on getting earbuds with great sound quality, particularly earbuds with great bass. Battery life, wireless charging and other features are lower down my list of priorities. I’m a bass-head that primarily listens to rap. Anybody got some suggestions?


I bought these recently try them if you don’t like em return them. I like mine. Needs burnin with music for 2-4 days and they really shine with bass. No wireless charging, but 5hrs and 30 min of music. Volume control, pause, etc.

Wireless Headphones, Losei Bluetooth 5.0 Sports True Wireless Earbuds Touch Control Earphones Bass Stereo Sound TWS Earhooks Headset with Charging Case & Mic for Running/Working Out/Gym https://www.amazon.com/dp/B088NW32QD/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_OWalFbTJJGVV6


----------



## actorlife

gibletzor said:


> I don't often use mine long enough to test the battery life to its fullest, but I'm pretty sure I got about 8.5 hours on my B530 originals once.  Normally I use them for working out or doing outside chores, and I've never had to worry about the battery getting close to empty doing that.


I use mine mostly for TV and YouTube. Biking sometimes. Yep you’ve convinced me I’ll be returning the T2 and get the new 530. Thanks bud. Ya getting any sleep with the baby?


----------



## Caipirina

dang, what to do? As much as I was positively psyched about those Aukey EP-N5 ANC buds, but today the Tozo arrived, and I think I like those even more  even better fit! ANC seems to be on same level, maybe even a tad better. Sound feels a tad better. But what changes my mind mostly is that I noticed the stems of the Aukey scratching my cheeks / beard and creating microphonics that can be really annoying when I move. Guess I need to A/B a lot. They are too similar to keep both. (And they were not cheap cheap) ....


----------



## assassin10000

jrice1996 said:


> I’m looking for a pair of wireless earbuds for working out that are under $100. I’m mostly focused on getting earbuds with great sound quality, particularly earbuds with great bass. Battery life, wireless charging and other features are lower down my list of priorities. I’m a bass-head that primarily listens to rap. Anybody got some suggestions?





assassin10000 said:


> Jabra 75t maybe?





bronco1015 said:


> cheap option that may fit the bill the mpow M30, The Tronsmart Apollo bold wouldn't be a bad option either, though you'd have to get it from geekbuying or AE till it's available on Amazon. The soundcore liberty 2 Pro are $129 on Amazon if you are willing to go that far, they fit better than they might look from pics. They are some serious bass monsters and also charge via USB-C and wirelessly which i know weren't highest on your priority list but they are included with this package. Plus they can be used indipendently. Even if you have a phone that doesn't support TWS plus you can always pair each individually and use them if needed. The 75T doesn't do that unfortunately. plus i can say personally when i owned them i got 8 hours out of them which is the advertised battery life. i sold them when i got the nuarl n6 Pro. I kind of regret it.



^this.

Don't know why I forgot the L2P when making my previous recommendation. They are a good basshead set.



WuWei82 said:


> Yes SQ definitely the end game for me. I'd sacrifice most other functionality save them being wireless of course! Additionally trying to minimise the amount of devices/iem's is important also and avoiding the new toy novelty thing.
> 
> I've seen a very reasonably priced BT wire (KZ atpx HD) that uses atpX HD codec (obviously) which looks to be quite an improvement, in theory, SQ wise on previous codecs. I may try this before pulling the trigger on those FiiL t1x i had my eyes on.



Skip the KZ cable. KZ's BT implementation is always weak/poor. Hasn't changed yet.

Usually when they say HD, but it's just regular APT-X. They consider that High Definition compared to SBC and say that in marketing materials.


----------



## eiraku

assassin10000 said:


> ^this.
> 
> Don't know why I forgot the L2P when making my previous recommendation. They are a good basshead set.
> 
> ...



Second the L2P recommendation, those hit deep and the App EQ is actually useful in making it less so if need be. I've heard that they hiss for some tho (mine don't seem to).

And yeah, as bad as the QC can be on TRN BT adapters, I've literally seen worse on KZ BT units. Like even reversed-polarity worse 🤣


----------



## trivik12

Caipirina said:


> EU people!
> 
> Wait longer!
> 
> ...


Dont you quote prices with VAT in Europe and europe has crazy Vat if I am not wrong. So why is this a surprise? Samsung mark up in Europe is similar to how Apple does for its Airpods( I see its  271.95 Eu in Germany). Plus in US you get discounted deals. APP is available for $200 and I am sure Buds live will be available at discount soon.


----------



## jrice1996

jrice1996 said:


> I’m looking for a pair of wireless earbuds for working out that are under $100. I’m mostly focused on getting earbuds with great sound quality, particularly earbuds with great bass. Battery life, wireless charging and other features are lower down my list of priorities. I’m a bass-head that primarily listens to rap. Anybody got some suggestions?


Thanks so much for all of the responses, last time I looked for a pair of earbuds I went through 600+ pages of forum posts on here, and though it was worth it, I couldn’t do that this time lol. For anybody that has used both the Apollo bold and the L2P, which set has better bass and overall sound quality (I understand sometimes those two things don’t go together). Also, if you’ve used either set for working out (primarily running) how did they perform?


----------



## Caipirina

jrice1996 said:


> Thanks so much for all of the responses, last time I looked for a pair of earbuds I went through 600+ pages of forum posts on here, and though it was worth it, I couldn’t do that this time lol. For anybody that has used both the Apollo bold and the L2P, which set has better bass and overall sound quality (I understand sometimes those two things don’t go together). Also, if you’ve used either set for working out (primarily running) how did they perform?


I was about to ask what your main work out is .. if it is mainly running .. I would neither recommend the Apollo nor L2P .. they are great buds, but I would never feel confident enough in terms of fit to run with them ... and then there is the 'runner's thud' ... the amplification of each food fall inside your ear when those are plugged shut ... sometimes I can ignore it over time, sometimes it annoys the heck out of me. 
My top running bud under 100$ has to be the Sabbat X12, since it is a semi-open in-ear form factor, it does not have the thud. The sound is great and since the passive noise isolation is rather low, they are also safe to run with (and hear cars, bikes passing) ... i already have 2 sets of them and another (the Ultra version) in the mail. As for fit, they come with extra wings I put on before each run (they don't fit in the case with wings) plus I added earbud foams for more secure fit and i like what it does to the sound signature, slightly 'tames' it, makes it a tad more smooth / warm ... (they still fit in the case with foams on!)


----------



## MadMike (Aug 6, 2020)

Just received these:


I have owned the XM3s (Xelastec tips) for about 2 week and will compare the two.


----------



## mikp

psa: This case fits the mtw2 like a glove

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32873529166.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.3dbc4c4db6WTO7


----------



## clerkpalmer (Aug 6, 2020)

Buds Live arriving Monday.  Bummer that fedex is 2 day and doesn't deliver on Saturday.

Reviews I am seeing are pretty positive. I'm looking at this as an APP competitor more than something like an N400 competitor.  I might even risk them on a sweaty bike ride given the potential room for situational awareness.  Biggest question seems to be whether or not they fit and stay put.  Looks like some solid tech and innovation (for once).  The space needs some more of that.

Edit - mainstream review but pretty positive: https://www.cnn.com/2020/08/06/cnn-...ive-review/index.html?iid=CNNUnderscoredHP2.0

Edit - and just like that, a not so good review:  https://www.engadget.com/samsung-galaxy-buds-live-review-140007680.html

Edit - one more good one.  I'll stop now:  https://www.theverge.com/21356260/s...iew-wireless-earbuds-beans-design-specs-price

Okay - I lied.  Per Gizmodo, at 145 pm today, a firmware update was delivered that substantially improves the ANC.  I need to get a life.


----------



## erockg

Here I go again:


----------



## Caipirina

erockg said:


> Here I go again:


Shiny! And not cheap! Seems they are the fancy cousin of those Panasonic RW500Z whatevr model number   Curious to hear impressions .. though, out of my price segment


----------



## Caipirina

MadMike said:


> Just received these:
> 
> 
> I have owned the XM3s (Xelastec tips) for about 2 week and will compare the two.


Those have been on my radar for a while .. there is one review on amazon that does not seem to be shill-y and compares with the other top ANC and this one comes out on top ... then there is a YT review that labels the ANC as 'weak sauce' ... so ... curious what you have to say


----------



## MadMike (Aug 6, 2020)

Caipirina said:


> Those have been on my radar for a while .. there is one review on amazon that does not seem to be shill-y and compares with the other top ANC and this one comes out on top ... then there is a YT review that labels the ANC as 'weak sauce' ... so ... curious what you have to say


Well, one thing is for sure- ANC is NOT "weak sauce'. A little better at eliminating my fan's noise than the XM3s. Need to use in more settings to say which ANC is better.

Also, the Xelastec tips fit nicely.


----------



## TheLionelHutz

Just saw that Advanced Sound has dropped the price on the Model X+ to $60.  Crazy good deal.  Might pick up a backup pair for a dystopian future in which mine die or get lost.


----------



## erockg

Caipirina said:


> Shiny! And not cheap! Seems they are the fancy cousin of those Panasonic RW500Z whatevr model number   Curious to hear impressions .. though, out of my price segment


Very similar to the MTW2 but a bit better IMO.  I sold my MTW2's and will keep these.  Still testing...


----------



## Shadowclash10

TK33 said:


> Agreed. Doubt they will have aptX.  Clearly pushing their scalable codec.


Yep, no way they will. If they do, I'll eat my cans. Better not try my luck .

Really annoying. Scalable codec is pretty decent, from what I have heard, but that isn't the issue - it's the fact that their scalable codec is ONLY Samsung phones (maybe tablets? I wouldn't know and it generally wouldn't matter). I mean, AAC is fine, but oftentimes Android doesn't do well with AAC. Another concern is that there are no AAC transmitters (trust me, I've tried finding some), so if your device doesn't have AAC, you are stuck with SBC. That isn't too bad sometimes, but with the Galaxy Buds + SBC was pretty bad, so the Buds Live are probably similar.


----------



## Shadowclash10

TheLionelHutz said:


> Just saw that Advanced Sound has dropped the price on the Model X+ to $60.  Crazy good deal.  Might pick up a backup pair for a dystopian future in which mine die or get lost.


Good deal, but I hate the tips, and most other tips won;t fit, so I can;t really get a good, tight seal .


----------



## Shadowclash10

VICosPhi said:


> So far the Galaxy Buds live seem to have these characteristics from what I have been reading:
> 
> - Bassy sound signature with forward mids
> - ANC not very effective, same as other TWS or worse
> ...


This looks right from what I've heard. You should add that Bixby is pretty bad . Also, only SBC (which is likely to sound pretty bad here, if we can exrapolate based off of the Buds +), AAC, and Samsung's Scalable Codec. 

They feel more like Samsung's Airpods Pro than a true Buds + successor (unlike how the Buds + was a successor to the original Buds). I was hoping that these were just Buds+ with ANC, but sadly, they aren't .


----------



## Coffeegeek

WuWei82 said:


> Ah well that's good to hear. I have some Symbio tips that fit very well. How easy are they 'amped' via your device? Loud enough?



I use a Pixel 2 and I can't have them above 3/4 of full volume.  There are no issues with loudness, and if you have them seated correctly they are pretty much incredible.  I stopped buying others after I got these - I've just not wanted anything better TBH.


----------



## Shadowclash10

Caipirina said:


> Shiny! And not cheap! Seems they are the fancy cousin of those Panasonic RW500Z whatevr model number   Curious to hear impressions .. though, out of my price segment


No, not cheap at all . I feel like these remind me more of chi-fi than my mental image of high-end (think MTW2 or better yet, Klipsch T5s and MW07s)


----------



## Shadowclash10

Coffeegeek said:


> I use a Pixel 2 and I can't have them above 3/4 of full volume.  There are no issues with loudness, and if you have them seated correctly they are pretty much incredible.  I stopped buying others after I got these - I've just not wanted anything better TBH.


3/4! Are you sure you don't have hearing damage yet? On most of my TWS, when I get a good seal, 1/2 is good enough.


----------



## webvan

It's raining ANC TWEs !

On another note my X12 Pro Clones, the Lezzii have gone completely out of sync with one another (all I can think of is that they stayed out of the box for hours, but it's happened before) and nothing I've tried looking at the X12 Pro manual (hold until they blink red/blue, mine don't) or YT videos (essentially hold for 20 seconds and put back in the box) has helped set them straight. I can either connect to the X12 R (right) or X12 but that's left only, thanks for any help !


----------



## Coffeegeek (Aug 6, 2020)

WuWei82 said:


> Yes SQ definitely the end game for me. I'd sacrifice most other functionality save them being wireless of course! Additionally trying to minimise the amount of devices/iem's is important also and avoiding the new toy novelty thing.
> 
> I've seen a very reasonably priced BT wire (KZ atpx HD) that uses atpX HD codec (obviously) which looks to be quite an improvement, in theory, SQ wise on previous codecs. I may try this before pulling the trigger on those FiiL t1x i had my eyes on.



I have the KZ AS10 with the KZ bluetooth neckband.  I've had it for close to a year now, so yeah, there may be a newer bluetooth module for them, but honestly they were only good with BT before.  They were very good wired.  But once I got the Fill T1X I've literally never listened to them since.  While the T1X don't have AptX, they still sound the best of any wireless headphones I have


----------



## Coffeegeek

Shadowclash10 said:


> 3/4! Are you sure you don't have hearing damage yet? On most of my TWS, when I get a good seal, 1/2 is good enough.



I went and looked - it's just over half on the phone volume actually.


----------



## TheLionelHutz (Aug 6, 2020)

Shadowclash10 said:


> Good deal, but I hate the tips, and most other tips won;t fit, so I can;t really get a good, tight seal .


For this style of deep-insertion TWS, I absolutely love the sort of "flange" style tips they included.  I'm using them on my Astrotecs, too. Great seal, but definitely doesn't fit like a normal "mushroom" shaped tip.


----------



## jant71

TheLionelHutz said:


> Just saw that Advanced Sound has dropped the price on the Model X+ to $60.  Crazy good deal.  Might pick up a backup pair for a dystopian future in which mine die or get lost.



First the Model X and now the X+. Perhaps something new is coming this fall. Maybe with ANC and pass through. They can tune when they do it so worth keeping an eye out. Or I should @Peter Yoon  and/or PM him and ask.


----------



## erockg

Shadowclash10 said:


> No, not cheap at all . I feel like these remind me more of chi-fi than my mental image of high-end (think MTW2 or better yet, Klipsch T5s and MW07s)


The Technics just as nice as the Sennies and the others.  I've had them all.  The body is plastic like all mentioned but with a metallic touch pad material not unlike the Sennies.  Klipsch are way cheaper feeling (the buds).  Technics case is metal and holds the buds in with a magnet.  Wish it had wireless charging.  I'm enjoying the soundstage of the Technics more than the Sennies and the MW07 plus.  MW07's have never fit me well.  I've had them numerous times.  Plus the lack of an app and weak ANC always let me to sell them no matter how many times I repurchase them Ha ha!  Techinces ANC is spot on, maybe slightly better than the Sennies.  Klipsch sound is so good, but the horrible BT connection and the mis-fire of their app was terrible.  Hopefully the T5 II that come out on 8/10 solved these problems.  I'll get them for sure to try them out.


----------



## assassin10000 (Aug 7, 2020)

webvan said:


> It's raining ANC TWEs !
> 
> On another note my X12 Pro Clones, the Lezzii have gone completely out of sync with one another (all I can think of is that they stayed out of the box for hours, but it's happened before) and nothing I've tried looking at the X12 Pro manual (hold until they blink red/blue, mine don't) or YT videos (essentially hold for 20 seconds and put back in the box) has helped set them straight. I can either connect to the X12 R (right) or X12 but that's left only, thanks for any help !



Put in your ears, hold both buttons for 4 seconds and power off.

Then hold both buttons for 20-30 seconds, you should hear power on, followed by 2 sets of descending tones.

After the 2nd set of tones they should power down and be completely reset.

Power back on and they will be in pairing mode for each other (both blinking blue). Click left side button once to pair to each other.

Once only one side is blinking red/blue (paired to each other), pair to your phone (left side only, it is the master iirc).


----------



## bunkey

Can someone recommend a TWS IEM for me? Mainly for doing chores outdoor(pair with iPhone), no need ANC. I have a QCY T1S and unimpressed by the sound, sounded muffle, lack of bass(bad fit?), lack of details to me. I'm eyeing on QCY T5, HELM TWS 50, Tranya B530, FIIL T1. These are some options I can get in Australia, thoughts?


----------



## KafkaEsqueMajor

I live in Europe and I wondered if there is any place where I can get the TRANYA B530 for cheap? They don't seem to sell in aliexpress and the price in amazon is almost 40 euro.


----------



## voicemaster

Ordered Samsung galaxy buds live just now. Will be here on Saturday.


----------



## Shadowclash10

I wonder when WF-1000XM4s launch... the over-ear model, the WH-100XM4s just released, and the WF XM3s have been going on sole so much that retailers are prob clearing out stock for the XM4s, so...


----------



## Shadowclash10

I feel that at $80, the original Galaxy Buds aren't going to fall farther in price anymore, but the Buds + should be dropping to 100-120 sooon now, I think...


----------



## Darkestred

bunkey said:


> Can someone recommend a TWS IEM for me? Mainly for doing chores outdoor(pair with iPhone), no need ANC. I have a QCY T1S and unimpressed by the sound, sounded muffle, lack of bass(bad fit?), lack of details to me. I'm eyeing on QCY T5, HELM TWS 50, Tranya B530, FIIL T1. These are some options I can get in Australia, thoughts?



Nuarl N6/Pro or Soundcore Liberty 2 Pro


----------



## bunkey

Darkestred said:


> Nuarl N6/Pro or Soundcore Liberty 2 Pro


Thanks for your reply, I forgot to mention I'm looking at $100 or under IEM, not sure if anything good at this price range, as I'm not going to use this IEM often. When I'm indoor I'm using Sony WH-1000X3, which I sounded ok with some EQ tweaking.


----------



## trivik12

Shadowclash10 said:


> I feel that at $80, the original Galaxy Buds aren't going to fall farther in price anymore, but the Buds + should be dropping to 100-120 sooon now, I think...



I already bought international model for $100 at Ebay. Confirmed its not a fake. I bought Jabra refurbished Elite 75T for $99. While  original packaging was not there it looked new. Both of them are quite good for the cost. I am really tempted by buds live if the gizmodo article that ANC is getting fixed through software updates. It may not be at APP level but if it does somewhat a decent job and audio quality is not a big regression from buds+, its worth a buy.


----------



## hifihov

FYLegend said:


> Interesting. I'm hearing a scratchy artifact only present when using the SBC codec. I was told by multiple users of the same issue though a few said it sounded fine. For whatever reason Samsung set a low bitpool than typical for SBC. Considering you're using a first-party Microsoft product I wonder if it is related to Bluetooth drivers and whether they can force a high bitrate. Unfortunately it sounds poor on my ASUS Zenbook Pro 15 (BT5.0, Intel drivers) and my Note 9 when using SBC.


The driver for the buds+:

Buds+ Avrcp transport: 

16/03/2019
10.0.18362.1
 
Buds+:

21/06/2006
10.0.18362.693

If there's any way of checking which codec its using please let me know


----------



## FYLegend

Anyone here tried XROUND Versa? It's a Taiwanese product - has optional fins, AptX + USB-C + Qi charging, IP67. Spinfit tips included. Some impressions I've seen suggest it's great for instrumental music but vocals are recessed.


----------



## webvan (Aug 7, 2020)

assassin10000 said:


> Put in your ears, hold both buttons for 4 seconds and power off.
> 
> Then hold both buttons for 20-30 seconds, you should hear power on, followed by 2 sets of descending tones.
> 
> ...



Thanks, I had done it a few times already with no luck, my first new attempt failed again but it worked the second time ! The trick was to only click once on the left (master indeed) bud once and not on the on the right one. Glad to have them back !


----------



## assassin10000

webvan said:


> Thanks, I had done a few times already with no luck, my first new attempt failed again but it worked the second time ! The trick was to only click once on the left (master indeed) bud once and not on the on the right one. Glad to have them back !



Glad it worked. 



I edited my post about only clicking the left/master for future reference.


----------



## cleg

My subjective opinion on FiiO's FW1


----------



## Aevum

just oredered the N400 from korea, lets see how long they take to get to spain.


----------



## FYLegend

hifihov said:


> The driver for the buds+:
> 
> Buds+ Avrcp transport:
> 
> ...


Not sure exactly how to check codec but Windows 10 only supports AptX and SBC. So the Buds+ will only be using SBC codec since it doesn't support AptX.

I think those driver numbers correspond to your Win10 build, mine is the 2004 update.
Buds+ AVRCP Transport:
12/6/2019
10.0.19041.1
Buds+
6/21/2006
10.0.19041.1

I just updated my Intel Bluetooth driver version to 21.110.0.3 - no change.

Another test track. Pay attention to the strings at 1:01


----------



## FYLegend

A few budget options on sale, wondering if anyone has any impressions.

Yacikos S8
https://www.amazon.ca/dp/B085WP12QX...m=A3DWYIK6Y9EEQB&pf_rd_r=4SJQ3F1YYG72W7NFE5AZ

KSOUND EP-K05
https://www.amazon.ca/dp/B0861515BV...m=A3DWYIK6Y9EEQB&pf_rd_r=4SJQ3F1YYG72W7NFE5AZ


----------



## Caipirina

assassin10000 said:


> Glad it worked.
> 
> 
> 
> I edited my post about only clicking the left/master for future reference.


I wish I could 'star' or favorite your instructions, for easy find later on when my Lezii need that treatment one day


----------



## Caipirina

Aevum said:


> just oredered the N400 from korea, lets see how long they take to get to spain.


That's dedication  ... I am still wondering if / how / when I could get them in Germany, no knowing how much longer I will be here (I was supposed to fly out a few days ago ... but covid and such ... still 'stuck' here)


----------



## hmscott (Aug 7, 2020)

Has anyone tried these?  They are pricey @ $249, Technics True Wireless Headphones EAH-AZ70W, how is the noise canceling?


https://www.amazon.com/Technics-Cancelling-Technology-Compatible-EAH-AZ70W-K/dp/B0863JBK5Q
https://www.technics.com/us/product...ss_noise_cancelling_headphones_eah_az70w.html

Highest Level of Hybrid Noise Cancelling in the Industry - Dual Hybrid Noise Cancelling Technology
The EAH-AZ70W wireless headphones use Dual Hybrid Noise Cancelling Technology which is composed of several systems. Firstly, Feedforward Noise Cancelling (FF-NC) and Feedback Noise Cancelling (FB-NC). Secondly, a combination of Analogue and Digital Processing. The combination of these two systems accomplishes an Industry-leading Noise Cancelling Effect in the True Wireless category.


asak said:


> Got 2 japan specials, the new Technics EAH-AZ70w and Yamaha TW-E3A. Very surprised by the Yamaha, natural sound and warm, but not too warm. One earpiece has to be the master, it can be either, but you can't use the slave without the master. The Technics is neutral with a very deep soundstage. Sound is also clear yet smooth. App has a 5 band eq. One thing I like about both of these is you can use a lot of standard eartips with both of the cases. Don't need the super shallow ones.


How is the noise canceling?


----------



## assassin10000

hmscott said:


> Has anyone tried these?  They are pricey @ $249, Technics True Wireless Headphones EAH-AZ70W, how is the noise canceling?
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/Technics-Cancelling-Technology-Compatible-EAH-AZ70W-K/dp/B0863JBK5Q
> https://www.technics.com/us/product...ss_noise_cancelling_headphones_eah_az70w.html
> ...



2 pages ago MadMike posted about the 'little brother' Panasonic RZ-S500W (8mm instead of 10mm driver).



MadMike said:


> Well, one thing is for sure- ANC is NOT "weak sauce'. A little better at eliminating my fan's noise than the XM3s. Need to use in more settings to say which ANC is better.


----------



## GeeD

FYLegend said:


> Not sure exactly how to check codec but Windows 10 only supports AptX and SBC. So the Buds+ will only be using SBC codec since it doesn't support AptX.
> 
> I think those driver numbers correspond to your Win10 build, mine is the 2004 update.
> Buds+ AVRCP Transport:
> ...



There was maybe something said earlier on, sorry, but out of interest ...what are we listening for here?  ta.


----------



## clerkpalmer

jant71 said:


> First the Model X and now the X+. Perhaps something new is coming this fall. Maybe with ANC and pass through. They can tune when they do it so worth keeping an eye out. Or I should @Peter Yoon  and/or PM him and ask.


Agree with this.  For all the flak Advanced gets, the Model X is a really fun sounding TWS.


----------



## Peter Yoon

jant71 said:


> First the Model X and now the X+. Perhaps something new is coming this fall. Maybe with ANC and pass through. They can tune when they do it so worth keeping an eye out. Or I should @Peter Yoon  and/or PM him and ask.


Got quite a bit in the pipeline as always


----------



## trivik12

There is already a deal for Galaxy Buds live. If you buy 5 of them at Verizon wireless you get 40% off coupon. 3 gets 30% off and 4 gets 35% off. This is a great group buy opportunity  Obviously its US only. 

https://slickdeals.net/f/14252258-s...zon-released-today-149-95-free-2-day-shipping


----------



## Luke Skywalker (Aug 7, 2020)

Shadowclash10 said:


> Well, as I understand it, they are almost always lithium ion, so the same rules apply that you would use for your phone. I've stopped topping them off to 100%, I try to keep them <90%, closer to 80%. It also helps if your battery doesn't fully drain. The only times I would charge my stuff up to 100% and let it deplete all the way is if I am using them for a long run, say, an international flight or smth. This does mean that I go for TWS with longer-than-average battery life. Quick charging stresses the battery out, but, sadly, generally (not sure if there are any that give you the option) TWS that have some form of quick charging don;t give you the option to turn it off. Oftentimes, that quick charging feature is very useful, but I don't need them to charge to full in 40 mins when I am going to bed, do I? But, yes, just follow the same guidelines that you would use for your phone.


I've often wondered why someone doesn't come out with TWS with a supercapacitor power cell.  They don't hold as much energy but they charge super fast and can be charged hundreds of thousands of times.  Maybe a case with a lithium ion battery so that you can carry around plenty of energy

Here's an article about a cordless screwdriver powered by a capacitor that charges in 90 seconds: https://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/gadgets/a4252/4223118/


----------



## FYLegend

GeeD said:


> There was maybe something said earlier on, sorry, but out of interest ...what are we listening for here?  ta.


SBC distortion on the Galaxy Buds+. The strings should be clean but when I'm using SBC codec on Windows 10 I'm hearing a scratchy distortion.


----------



## GSkyflakes

I'm not sure if it's been posted here, has anyone made impressions on the newer version of the mifo o7 with the dynamic driver vs the previous doubled BA? Was interested to know if the bass is too much and muddy. Got an order coming in from China


----------



## RemoGaggi

Got my Edifier X3's today - $19.49 on Aliexpress.  I ordered them on June 20 and they arrived today here in California.  Here's my 2 minute first impression - WOW!  These are amazing out of the box.  Nice natural sound, good bass, and excellent vocals.  Makes me want to move my feet.  The charging case is tiny - the smallest I've seen.


----------



## assassin10000

trivik12 said:


> There is already a deal for Galaxy Buds live. If you buy 5 of them at Verizon wireless you get 40% off coupon. 3 gets 30% off and 4 gets 35% off. This is a great group buy opportunity  Obviously its US only.



Anyone going to do so? I'm considering it.


----------



## VICosPhi

hmscott said:


> Has anyone tried these?  They are pricey @ $249, Technics True Wireless Headphones EAH-AZ70W, how is the noise canceling?
> 
> 
> How is the noise canceling?


I gave up waiting for these but from what I have read noise cancellation is the highlight feature of these and it is above average and probably equal or very close to Sony. Sound signature is pleasing as well and even though bass is present, it does not hit as hard as MTW2. Treble and vocals are excellent as well. These don't support APTX(AAC, SBC only) or Auto pause when removed from ear, also buds and case are on the bigger side size wise.


----------



## erockg (Aug 7, 2020)

Here are the new Galaxy Buds Live.  Just got them.  Still listening.  Here's a size comparison to the new Technics.


----------



## voicemaster

erockg said:


> Here are the new Galaxy Buds Live.  Just got them.  Still listening.  Here's a size comparison to the new Technics.


Looks kinda like BLON BL03 when worn with those silver metallic color. How's the fit and sound? Mine will be delivered tomorrow. Can't wait to try them.


----------



## erockg

voicemaster said:


> Looks kinda like BLON BL03 when worn with those silver metallic color. How's the fit and sound? Mine will be delivered tomorrow. Can't wait to try them.


Honestly, I figured I'd just return them but I'm pleasantly surprised by the sound and fit.  Great soundstage. Very light and comfortable.


----------



## VICosPhi

erockg said:


> Honestly, I figured I'd just return them but I'm pleasantly surprised by the sound and fit.  Great soundstage. Very light and comfortable.


How is the sound compared to the Technics? Bass/Treble especially since these are open type.


----------



## erockg

VICosPhi said:


> How is the sound compared to the Technics? Bass/Treble especially since these are open type.


You can’t really compare open back to in ears.  Two diff breeds.  GBL’s get louder and they have a 12mm driver vs 10mm.  But the ANC on the Technics blow the GBL away.  I’ll do more comparing soon and report back.


----------



## voicemaster

erockg said:


> Honestly, I figured I'd just return them but I'm pleasantly surprised by the sound and fit.  Great soundstage. Very light and comfortable.


Why do you want to return them?


----------



## Uncle00Jesse

Haven’t been following much lately, how do the L2Ps stack up against the new breed of tws that have come out in the past 6 months or so? Still liking mine a lot but the background static hiss is annoying for podcasts


----------



## TK33

voicemaster said:


> Why do you want to return them?



I may be wrong, but I read that to mean before @erockg actually tried them (i.e.had low expectations but was pleasantly surprised).

Mine shipped yesterday from TX and are scheduled to get here (NY) Monday.  This may be the first Monday I am looking forward to in a very long time....not expecting these to take the place of my MTW or MW07 Go for music but hoping to be pleasantly surprised (and mostly use wired these days anyway).  Really just need something for calls and possibly biking if the fit is good and stable. Dont really care about or expect much in terms of noise cancellation given the open design but I am intrigued.


----------



## voicemaster

TK33 said:


> I may be wrong, but I read that to mean before @erockg actually tried them (i.e.had low expectations but was pleasantly surprised).
> 
> Mine shipped yesterday from TX and are scheduled to get here (NY) Monday.  This may be the first Monday I am looking forward to in a very long time....not expecting these to take the place of my MTW or MW07 Go for music but hoping to be pleasantly surprised (and mostly use wired these days anyway).  Really just need something for calls and possibly biking if the fit is good and stable. Dont really care about or expect much in terms of noise cancellation given the open design but I am intrigued.


Ah I got what he meant and yeah I don't really need noise cancellation either. I am looking to replace my galaxy buds plus because eventho it has good ambiance mode, it will never beat an open design IEM.


----------



## AudioNoob

On my pixel 3a with BT 5.0 and APTX I get a warble/grain above 16khz. It is not present with AAC on the ipad. My computer is currently refusing APTX so I couldn't cross reference. I tried four different earbuds so its not the buds. Is this something that was discussed before?

Test: https://www.audiocheck.net/audiotests_frequencycheckhigh.php


----------



## erockg

voicemaster said:


> Why do you want to return them?


I’m only saying that I would return them if I didn’t like them but so far I am pleasantly surprised, meaning they have by far exceeded my expectations.


----------



## erockg

TK33 said:


> I may be wrong, but I read that to mean before @erockg actually tried them (i.e.had low expectations but was pleasantly surprised).
> 
> Mine shipped yesterday from TX and are scheduled to get here (NY) Monday.  This may be the first Monday I am looking forward to in a very long time....not expecting these to take the place of my MTW or MW07 Go for music but hoping to be pleasantly surprised (and mostly use wired these days anyway).  Really just need something for calls and possibly biking if the fit is good and stable. Dont really care about or expect much in terms of noise cancellation given the open design but I am intrigued.


I haven’t tried them for calls yet but I am definitely going to do that during work next week. I will say one great thing is that I listen to audiobooks as I’m falling asleep at night and most of my other true wireless headphones lose their seal when I lay on my side. These Galaxy Buds Live do not lose their seal for me when my head is resting on its side with a pillow. Major plus when I’m listening to books at night.


----------



## phaeton70

erockg said:


> But the ANC on the Technics blow the GBL away. I’ll do more comparing soon and report back.



I'm interested in these GBL, but I need ANC. how would you describe the ANC on these GBL, appreciate it's not at the level of Sony/Technics, but it's at least decent? (decent= with no music I cannot hear a "normally noisy" full speed fan at 1m)


----------



## phaeton70

AudioNoob said:


> On my pixel 3a with BT 5.0 and APTX I get a warble/grain above 16khz. It is not present with AAC on the ipad. My computer is currently refusing APTX so I couldn't cross reference. I tried four different earbuds so its not the buds. Is this something that was discussed before?


same here, I'm still experimenting though, not sure that what I'm hearing depends on some phone setting. 
from everything I've read aptX should be definitely better on Android, but actually AAC seems to have less grainy highs and also a slighlty better "punch"
I'm using Apollo Bold and Samsung S9+
PS after some days of use, I must say I really love these Apollo Bold. if correctly eq'ed they sound really lovely (I'm using -3@63 -4@125 -2@250 +1@8k +2@16k). IMHO really a great bang for the buck.


----------



## soullinker20 (Aug 8, 2020)

i also bought technics too and will be here next saturday. after selling my wf-1000xm3 was considering the mtw 2. I'm glad I came across technics and i chose it over mtw 2 for functionality and secondly sound.

@erockg
@MadMike

does it protrude that much because of the 10mm drivers?
I have mtw 1 and it kinda protrudes.


----------



## actorlife

KafkaEsqueMajor said:


> I live in Europe and I wondered if there is any place where I can get the TRANYA B530 for cheap? They don't seem to sell in aliexpress and the price in amazon is almost 40 euro.


Try aliexpress or eBay. Make sure you get the upgraded version with aptx


----------



## actorlife

bunkey said:


> Can someone recommend a TWS IEM for me? Mainly for doing chores outdoor(pair with iPhone), no need ANC. I have a QCY T1S and unimpressed by the sound, sounded muffle, lack of bass(bad fit?), lack of details to me. I'm eyeing on QCY T5, HELM TWS 50, Tranya B530, FIIL T1. These are some options I can get in Australia, thoughts?


Tranya B530. I never heard the others, Fiil is said to be great as well.


----------



## voicemaster

Just got my buds live and been tinkering with the sound a little bit. Out of the box, this has pretty bass heavy for such an open design. It fit me very well as such I did a roll with it and it didn't move at all. It actually kinda make a seal eventho its not supposed to seal lol. I could barely hear a video playing on my pc with max volume even without active noise cancelling turned on. Connection is absolutely fast and stable just like the other samsung buds. Currently I am using the "clear" eq on the galaxy wearable app and no eq on wavelet. The dynamic eq gives too much bass in the 200-250hz region. Right now, I am burning it in just playing music louder than I usually listen. So far, I really like it.


----------



## actorlife (Aug 9, 2020)

Got these to keep my buds in when my ears are getting sweaty and the buds slowly loose it’s grip. Saw these $6.99 ones I was curious about and put them in my cart awhile ago and recently decided to get them. I got the medium size and they fit good and don’t hurt. The bass and high are great with the Kissral that I just got recently and seal really well. Will test with bike riding and let you know how they fare. Edit I had a great with these they never got sweaty too much. Had them on for 3hrs and I’d say 90 percent seal. I could actually not hear too much of my environment. Tested with my ofusho TWS. Squish them and they go in the case great.


----------



## erockg

soullinker20 said:


> i also bought technics too and will be here next saturday. after selling my wf-1000xm3 was considering the mtw 2. I'm glad I came across technics and i chose it over mtw 2 for functionality and secondly sound.
> 
> @erockg
> @MadMike
> ...


It does protrude a little bit more but for me, the Technics earbuds fit better and are more comfortable for longer periods of time than the Sennheiser‘s were for me.


----------



## MadMike

@erockg
@MadMike

does it protrude that much because of the 10mm drivers?
I have mtw 1 and it kinda protrudes.
[/QUOTE]

They definitely protrude but feel more comfortable than the XM3s.


----------



## voicemaster

Wow I am very impressed with the galaxy buds live sound. The sound has opened up and the wonky bass has toned down significantly. I am connecting to my pc right now and I couldn't hear the distortion which the other two galaxy buds have before. There is definitely more bass from the live than the buds and buds+, but it is a pretty well balanced bass imho. It has body and quite punchy at the same time which you normally get from regular IEM and not from "open" IEM. Also because it is supposed to be "open" the soundstage is bigger and airy, but its not airy because of more treble extension which how regular IEM use to make the sound airy. I tried to sleep on my bed using the buds live and it stay pretty dam well. I think I am just lucky because it fit me very very good and no ear canal strain you get from regular IEM even when using comply and itchy too after like 2-3 hours of listening. But ymmv, especially with the fit because with regular IEM you can tip rolling, but with buds live, you either fit or not and you are limited to the rubber thingy that samsung gave you.


----------



## MadMike (Aug 8, 2020)

Panasonic RZ-S500W vs. Sony WF-1000XM3

First Impressions (50+ years old ears): used iPhone XS with Xelastec M tips (both S500 and XM3).
•   S500s have clear vocals with good bass- smooth sounding with no fatigue. Enough sparkle.
•   Wider and deeper sound stage than XM3- better instrument separation.
•   Less bass slam than the XM3. However, the music from XM3 feels closed in and bloated in comparison. XM3 vocals suffer in comparison.
•   Using the Bass Enhancer in app brings bass closer to XM3 levels (but not quite all the way) without affecting the rest of the spectrum.
•   When changing from Noise Canceling to Ambient Sound to Off there is no perceptible change in the music- not the case with the XM3s (slight differences).
•   Both protrude however the S500s are more comfortable and didn't require much adjustment on a exercise walk once I figured out their proper placement in my ears.
•   Knowing the S500s have an IPX4 rating is reassuring for using them when working out. No IPX rating for Sony's.
•   All of S500 functions can be accessed from the touch sensors where you are required to choose which functions can be accessed from the touch sensors of the XM3s (Ambient Sound Modes vs Play/Pause/Skip vs. Volume Control- limited to two of them).
•   No auto-pause when removing the S500s.
•   S500 case much small than XM3 case. Sony’s snap right in while you have to play with S500s to get them to sit properly.

Noise canceling:
•   Vacuum running- equally effective
•   XM3 more susceptible to wind noise when walking- so much so, I prefer having Noise Canceling/Ambient Sound off while walking. Not the case with the S500s- some wind noise but acceptable.
•   Lawn mower- S500 does a terrific job blocking out most of the lower frequency sound of the mower leaving some higher frequencies. Did not have to raise the volume of the music at all. Very pleasant experience! 

So far- I actually like listening to music with the S500s  vs. XM3s where the music is acceptable. Mind you the differences are not huge but I prefer the S500 overall for my needs.


----------



## Luke Skywalker

erockg said:


> I haven’t tried them for calls yet but I am definitely going to do that during work next week. I will say one great thing is that I listen to audiobooks as I’m falling asleep at night and most of my other true wireless headphones lose their seal when I lay on my side. These Galaxy Buds Live do not lose their seal for me when my head is resting on its side with a pillow. Major plus when I’m listening to books at night.


That's super cool dude. I just tried that for the first time the other night actually.  "End of Eternity" by Asimov (the definitive time travel book IMHO).  It was rather uncomfortable though (I'm a side sleeper) with my N6 Pro's.  I'd thought of maybe trying my Jabra 65's with the foam tips, the Sony XM3's would prob be too big.  

Totally random - a guy I work with has some sort of high end hearing aid that's actually "installed" (for lack of a better word) inside his ear.  He said he can pair it with his phone and listen to music and stuff. SBC i'm guessing, doubt it's LDAC haha


----------



## AudioNoob

To further the APTX vs AAC, I tried it on my desktop as well and sure enough, APTX is very grainy from 14-18khz where AAC is clean. I can max AAC bitrate with no retransmission:


----------



## voicemaster (Aug 8, 2020)

Luke Skywalker said:


> That's super cool dude. I just tried that for the first time the other night actually.  "End of Eternity" by Asimov (the definitive time travel book IMHO).  It was rather uncomfortable though (I'm a side sleeper) with my N6 Pro's.  I'd thought of maybe trying my Jabra 65's with the foam tips, the Sony XM3's would prob be too big.
> 
> Totally random - a guy I work with has some sort of high end hearing aid that's actually "installed" (for lack of a better word) inside his ear.  He said he can pair it with his phone and listen to music and stuff. SBC i'm guessing, doubt it's LDAC haha


I can confirm that the buds live is very comfortable to use while side sleeping. You just have to turn off the "touch" function and it will just act like a wired IEM while sleeping. It is pretty low profile in my ear, probably about the same as Tronsmart Spunky Beats.

Oh and one noticeable difference from the other gbuds is the mid. Vocal no longer sounds thin, it has enough thickness just like N6P mid, treble is less sparkly tho you can still hear the cymbals just fine without the ear piercing.


----------



## erockg

I do have something strange to report. So I was out walking with my toddler around the neighborhood and decided to test the GBL’s outside. My Bluetooth connection was horrible. I was passing by apartment buildings and then crossing the street in open areas where the Bluetooth signal cannot bounce off anything and the music kept fading in and out. I’m using a new 2020 iPhone SE. That’s said, I’m on iOS 14 beta so maybe that has something to do with it. I’m curious if anyone else has any issues while out and about walking. My phone was in my front left pocket facing down, Which is usually how I always carry my phone.


----------



## Caipirina (Aug 9, 2020)

Is it showing off ears day?

I was asked in a PM about running with the Apollos ... I had earlier said that I would not really consider them for running (not sure how secure the fit), so I was 'challenged' and gave it a try ..





And it went kinda as expected ... in the beginning I kept having the feeling the right bud is wiggling itself free, so i kept re-adjusting and by that activated ALL posible touch pad functions. Play / pause, summon siri, change volume ...  bit annoying ... by 5K I had them finally jammed in the right way.

They sound great, loud, energetic-bassy, but the thud from foot falls is quite audible. Trick is: find music at 170-180SPM or whatever your running cadence is 

As evident from the above, they do stick out quite some ...

Overall: yes, one can use them for runs ... but I have other I prefer (Sabbat X12, Spunky Beats, Anbes 359, PBP, Bose SSF ... )


----------



## Peddler

I must admit that the sound character of the Apollo Bold's has changed considerably since I first got them.  To the point where I feel compelled to amend my review (which I will do when time permits). Whilst I still find them a little too bassy for my tastes, they are really beginning to show some interesting qualities.  Whilst I still prefer the sound of the Sony WF1000XM3's by a long way, I have found that they make for good low-volume listening.


----------



## webvan

With ANC off then because that mode boosts the bass way more than even a basshead can stand!


----------



## soullinker20

this is how the mtw 1 looks on mine.
are the technics larger?


----------



## VICosPhi

soullinker20 said:


> this is how the mtw 1 looks on mine.
> are the technics larger?


Yes the Technics are larger, they protrude a few mm more than MTW


----------



## soullinker20 (Aug 8, 2020)

VICosPhi said:


> Yes the Technics are larger, they protrude a few mm more than MTW



thanks. so it's big then😅
am having 2nd thoughts. 
i didnt realize it was gonna be that huge


----------



## erockg (Aug 8, 2020)

soullinker20 said:


> thanks. so it's big then😅
> am having 2nd thoughts.
> i didnt realize it was gonna be that huge


The Technics are longer, not wider.  The MTW2 have a wider circumference.  For me, the Technics fit better than the MTW2.  They are more rounded at the base.  Sadly, I don't have my MTW2's anymore to take a pic of them together for you.  Someone might soon.


----------



## VICosPhi

erockg said:


> The Technics are longer, not wider.  The MTW2 have a wider circumference.  For me, the Technics fit better than the MTW2.  They are more rounded at the base.  Sadly, I don't have my MTW2's anymore to take a pic of them together for you.  Someone might soon.


I have read MTW2 are more bassy than Technics, did you have the same experience?


----------



## DigDub

MadMike said:


> Panasonic RZ-S500W vs. Sony WF-1000XM3
> 
> First Impressions (50+ years old ears): used iPhone XS with Xelastec M tips (both S500 and XM3).
> •   S500s have clear vocals with good bass- smooth sounding with no fatigue. Enough sparkle.
> ...


Does the LED lights on the Panasonic blink when in use? I downloaded the user manual from Panasonic's website and it mentions the LED light blinks 2 times every 5 seconds when music is playing. If they do blink, are they bright?


----------



## DigDub

erockg said:


> I do have something strange to report. So I was out walking with my toddler around the neighborhood and decided to test the GBL’s outside. My Bluetooth connection was horrible. I was passing by apartment buildings and then crossing the street in open areas where the Bluetooth signal cannot bounce off anything and the music kept fading in and out. I’m using a new 2020 iPhone SE. That’s said, I’m on iOS 14 beta so maybe that has something to do with it. I’m curious if anyone else has any issues while out and about walking. My phone was in my front left pocket facing down, Which is usually how I always carry my phone.


I've read a few online reviews that the buds live has poor connection outdoors too. Hopefully a firmware update will fix it.


----------



## erockg

VICosPhi said:


> I have read MTW2 are more bassy than Technics, did you have the same experience?


Yes.  Technics aren’t as muddy.  I’m enjoying them


----------



## erockg

DigDub said:


> I've read a few online reviews that the buds live has poor connection outdoors too. Hopefully a firmware update will fix it.


That would s great.  Debating if I should keep them until they work out the issues.


----------



## phaeton70

Peddler said:


> I must admit that the sound character of the Apollo Bold's has changed considerably since I first got them.



same here. and with the right eq I find these Apollo very enjoyable



webvan said:


> With ANC off then because that mode boosts the bass way more than even a basshead can stand!



umh.... I'm not hearing any difference with ANC on or off.... both with aptX and AAC (which I prefer)


----------



## erockg

erockg said:


> Yes.  Technics aren’t as muddy.  I’m enjoying them


Also, right now in the US they’re $199 (reg $250).  I’m going to get my $50


----------



## Numark637Dn

I love true wireless so the option of being able to be free. Just so many at moment seem to fall down at final hurdle.


----------



## davidtriune

I want to collect more wireless IEMs, but reluctant since it's like you're "renting" them for about 5 years before the lithium batteries deteriorate.


----------



## baskingshark

davidtriune said:


> I want to collect more wireless IEMs, but reluctant since it's like you're "renting" them for about 5 years before the lithium batteries deteriorate.



That's why I like bluetooth adapters like TRN BT20S, TRN BT20 and the iBasso CF01, they allow one to use an existing detachable IEM with it, so battery life and bluetooth tech ain't the limiting factor. Plus one is already familiar with the sound signature of the detachable IEM.

Although in this hobby, 5 years is a very long time! I think in all likelihood we might have another CHIFI IEM or wireless gear coming in the mail within a few weeks, so the old gear might be forgotten in a drawer way before the battery dies!


----------



## regancipher

Back to the Tronsmart Apollo, I got them to multipoint this weekend!
Not really sure how, but they do!


----------



## regancipher

davidtriune said:


> I want to collect more wireless IEMs, but reluctant since it's like you're "renting" them for about 5 years before the lithium batteries deteriorate.


Or renting them from Amazon Prime for a week while you review them before sending them back


----------



## webvan

phaeton70 said:


> same here. and with the right eq I find these Apollo very enjoyable
> 
> 
> 
> umh.... I'm not hearing any difference with ANC on or off.... both with aptX and AAC (which I prefer)



I haven't checked the codec being used but I can't imagine it would make a difference, when ANC is turned on there is a massive bass boost that makes them pretty much unusable, I'm pretty sure others had commented on that too. Maybe there are different hardware/firmware versions...


----------



## sarv

Apollo bold or Sony xm3 anyone got both of them? Which one would you recommend?


----------



## regancipher (Aug 9, 2020)

Peddler said:


> I must admit that the sound character of the Apollo Bold's has changed considerably since I first got them.  To the point where I feel compelled to amend my review (which I will do when time permits). Whilst I still find them a little too bassy for my tastes, they are really beginning to show some interesting qualities.  Whilst I still prefer the sound of the Sony WF1000XM3's by a long way, I have found that they make for good low-volume listening.



I was the same. I've had to go and change all my reviews.

I played a reference track by St Etienne in FLAC I use to determine whether it's worth even bothering doing the acoustic tests etc. They didn't just pass, they performed in a way that every stellar set of overear headphones should, let alone TWS.

Since I've done all the tests, the only thing I noticed ironically is the treble notches a touch early. This is why sound is so subjective. I think it's from years of damaging my ears playing my HD25SP'S too loud over the monitors when djing.

Otherwise, they are fantastic. I never, ever thought a set of wireless earbuds would move out of the 'consumer quality' space. Tronsmart Spunky Beats, Boltune BT-BH024, Tronsmart Onyx Free, Soundpeats True Dot...these are all 'consumer quality sound'

Fiil T1X, Sabbat (can't remember the part number, something 12 I think), possibly the Edifier NB & Ugreen Hitune...well they're the top end of consumer quality.

The Apollo defy all logic. They're borderline audiophile quality, if not audiophile quality with the right tips.

Yes, they use the new Qualcomm chip and of course that gives you an advantage, but you still have to get the drivers right.

If you play a badly produced house track at full volume it may clip. The track I played that clipped when I first reviewed them stuck with me so I played it through two sets of studio speakers- my own trusty old Behringer Truths and my friends far better professional setup. The track still clipped. This is a track supposedly produced by a well-known Scottish dance music producer and the song IIRC got in the top 10 of the UK charts!

The point is in line with everyone else's point on the Apollo so far. Not that they need wearing in - I don't actually believe in that phenomena - but that after a greater set of reference tracks and a broader comparison across a more varied set of receivers, you can better judge the true quality.

Getting multipoint to work on them this weekend was another nice surprise. Don't ask me how, but after 3 days of trying and failing I suddenly heard my phone interrupt my webinar! I was like...ummm...What!

I still think these have a bit of work to be done. The tear shape ends are uncomfortable if you use the buds the way the manual tells you to. And the ikko tips are good, but still not the most comfortable. We need some custom tips for these without a doubt. After 1 day of solid use I had a bit of discomfort in one ear, nothing unusual, but an area for improvement.

I have also put the tips from the Apollo on the Onyx Free and wow, they are now super comfy! The onyx Free are too small to suit foam tips so quality silicone ones make all the difference.

I've got the True Engine 3se and a few others on the way, will be interesting to see how they fare, but this was definitely a lesson learned for me, don't write a set of earbuds off so quickly...something I would never do with over ear headphones. I think I've been indoctrinated with the assumption BT5 makes good wireless sound impossible..well, I was wrong


----------



## regancipher

sarv said:


> Apollo bold or Sony xm3 anyone got both of them? Which one would you recommend?


I have tried both.

Unfortunately, I can only base my view of the Sony on the firmware they released them with. I understand they've improved them with a subsequent release.

Microphone quality is better on the Sony, I assume due to the shape.

Sound quality and latency is, on Android, far superior on the Apollo. On iPhone, they sound about the same. On Windows, they also sound the same. Objectively, the FR is close to identical.

Connectivity was rock solid on the Sony, I've had a few minor issues with the Apollo but they are being ironed out and were 'teething problems' that I think are now being sorted.

ANC is I think marginally stronger on the Sony but there's very little in it, and the SQ on the Apollo is better when ANC is on.

If it were me, I would, and have decided to, keep the Tronsmart, but I haven't tried the Sony since they released the new firmware so bear that in mind. The shape of the Sony is something they can't sort with the firmware and that was one of my biggest bug bears.


----------



## regancipher

sarv said:


> Apollo bold or Sony xm3 anyone got both of them? Which one would you recommend?


Btw @Peddler has also tried both IIRC


----------



## Caipirina

Shadowclash10 said:


> I feel that at $80, the original Galaxy Buds aren't going to fall farther in price anymore, but the Buds + should be dropping to 100-120 sooon now, I think...


Like so?


----------



## phaeton70

webvan said:


> Maybe there are different hardware/firmware versions...


that could be... I'm listening right now with them and can confirm I cannot hear any difference. could also be I'm defintely deaf


----------



## phaeton70 (Aug 9, 2020)

ssouthall6 said:


> Back to the Tronsmart Apollo, I got them to multipoint this weekend!


umh... I have tried to connect to a different source, and with a new pairing it worked flawlessy, but you need to pair again to the other source in case of switching. is this you mean by multipoint?

edit: don't mind, have read your comment above... I will try tomorrow since I have seveal zoom calls


----------



## phaeton70

ssouthall6 said:


> The Apollo defy all logic. They're borderline audiophile quality, if not audiophile quality with the right tips.



+1
I really like these earbuds, but I must admit I'm still using a quite aggressive eq. but maybe this is only part of personal liking, I'm dfintely not a bass-head


----------



## hmscott

hmscott said:


> I ordered 2 pair of Tranya T10's 08/02 - one from Tranya - $58.78 shipped, and one from Amazon UK $42.23 - both had promo discounts.  Today I received the Tranya T10 from Amazon Uk 08/05, and also received the shipping notice from Tranya today.
> 
> I've charged the T10's and connected them to my Windows 10 PC, and so far I'm liking what I am hearing - and the BT connection is stable, with no drama.
> 
> ...


These tips make everything sound better - they fit me perfectly, I'm on my 5th pair - used on the Tranya T10 and they really sound great now - good with the stock tips - amazing with these AZLA SednaEarfit ML's:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B083GF9N81

On IEM's the size is no issue, on the KZ S2's they don't cause any fitment in the case issues, but for the Tranya T10 they keep the lid from closing - so I used a triple wrapped rubber band to keep it closed so the T10's can charge 

I haven't yet received the pair purchased direct from Tranya, but the pair that arrived from Amazon are amazing.  Great bass, great sound stage, airy, detailed and no BT connection issues at all.  I haven't run them dry yet, but I'll do that soon to see how long the runtime is.

I have some SednaEarfitLight Short Low profile tips to try - somewhere, those should fit the case better...:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B083XQM2YP


----------



## DB10

Hi,

I wish you are fine!!! I have been following this thread about one year (more or less) but I had never written, hello everyone!. I love the freedom that TWS give you but I also know that the sound quality is low in comparison with wired ones although I think everything is improving. My iems, that I use everyday, are the CA Andromeda and some other on rotation (Blon BL03, 1 more triple...).

I would like to buy the best possible sounding TWS, and I have read all the recent posts, reviewed the Scabir web but I am a bit confused. I have a Cambridge Audio Melomania and I have tested extensively the Creative Outlier Gold from my wife. Last week I ordered a pair of Sony XM3 and I have been testing them yesterday. I don't know if I am doing something wrong but I don't find them better sounding than my Melomania, might be only marginal. I have tried different tips, Comply, SpinFit and I find that the best sound is with the SpinFit 360. I am thinking about returning them.

What do you suggest? I live in Spain and some models are not easy to buy, for example, the Nuarl ones. I was wondering if some other models would be only a small improvement over my Melomania or the Sonys or if there is something significantly better. I use Android as OS.

Thanks in advance and all greetings from Spain!!!.


----------



## regancipher (Aug 9, 2020)

phaeton70 said:


> that could be... I'm listening right now with them and can confirm I cannot hear any difference. could also be I'm defintely deaf


No difference for me at all either. Could be the receiver, the quality of the mixdown of the tracks, the natural eq of the receiver...so many variables.

I just don't hear the bass issue. Testing is showing a really nice round off at 20Hz and a gradual dip from 40Hz to 20Hz. ANC on/off they are doing exactly what they say on the specification sheet (which is usually under conditions that suit the vendor - not so here). If anything they are not quite reaching the 20KHz top end, but the bass is spot on with an aptx stream.

I don't have any tools to measure performance on iPhone but subjectively it definitely doesn't sound as good, but that's Apple for you!

BTW....I realise my sudden appearance on the forum and strong defence of the Apollo is making me sound like a Tronsmart shill  Well I'm not, quite the opposite.

I've been reviewing earbuds on and off throughout lockdown. I use the same username on hotukdeals, where I've been a member for about 15 years.

My over-ear go-to is the Avantree Aria Pro, a super all rounder: their sq is nothing to get excited about, NC is ordinary, but they are just so clean - everything works flawlessly. Multipoint is solid, controls are intuitive, latency is the best I've ever found.

I give my kids Plantronics headphones because their sound is super flat. They're not making the same mistake I did when I was younger!

I also really like the Boltune BT-BH024, for stem-designed buds they are really smart. When I reviewed them on Amazon, I removed one star for including a voucher in the box in exchange for a 5 star review. Despite that, I still endorse the product, even if they've never responsed to any of my recommendations. 

I returned two sets of early Tronsmart buds because of the controls. I never contacted them directly but I understand that my findings were in keeping with other reviews. They clearly listened. They released the Onyx Free that took all the best elements of the Spunky Beats and Neo and remedied all of their failings. They read the reviews and participate in forums...that's how to create a brand, not offer vouchers for reviews.

So there!


----------



## VZWDJ

I still have available ....Pixel Buds 2 and Brand New TicKasa ANC Wireless Headphones...PM me if interested...Thanks!


----------



## MadMike

DigDub said:


> Does the LED lights on the Panasonic blink when in use? I downloaded the user manual from Panasonic's website and it mentions the LED light blinks 2 times every 5 seconds when music is playing. If they do blink, are they bright?


Yes, the LED do light up when in use. However, there is a setting in the app that allows you to turn the LED off.


----------



## MadMike

erockg said:


> Also, right now in the US they’re $199 (reg $250).  I’m going to get my $50


Really? Damn- tempted to upgrade from my panny's now. Must resist, must resist...


----------



## sarv (Aug 9, 2020)

ssouthall6 said:


> I have tried both.
> 
> Unfortunately, I can only base my view of the Sony on the firmware they released them with. I understand they've improved them with a subsequent release.
> 
> ...


Cheers for that mate, Tronsmart definitely shot up to number 1 so far. Still gonna have few more weeks for them to refund my 1more ANC, APP just don't do it for me in SQ.


----------



## bronco1015

webvan said:


> I haven't checked the codec being used but I can't imagine it would make a difference, when ANC is turned on there is a massive bass boost that makes them pretty much unusable, I'm pretty sure others had commented on that too. Maybe there are different hardware/firmware versions...


I do notice a huuuge bass bump w the apollos in ANC, and a sound with ambiant that is hard to describe. it's not bothersome, but it is different from anc and passive. Passive sounds best with these imo, and it's quite good. still putting my thoughts together on these but they're a great offering by Tronsmart.


----------



## phaeton70

so I think there must be at least two different fw's out there for these Apollo.... Tronsmart can you comment on this please? I have bought my Apollo ten days ago.


----------



## actorlife

actorlife said:


> Got these to keep my buds in when my ears are getting sweaty and the buds slowly loose it’s grip. Saw these $6.99 ones I was curious about and put them in my cart awhile ago and recently decided to get them. I got the medium size and they fit good and don’t hurt. The bass and high are great with the Kissral that I just got recently and seal really well. Will test with bike riding and let you know how they fare. Edit I had a great with these they never got sweaty too much. Had them on for 3hrs and I’d say 90 percent seal. I could actually not hear too much of my environment. Tested with my ofusho TWS. Squish them and they go in the case great.


Added a couple on new overviews to my sig. Just in case you missed them since this thread goes by pages so rapidly. 😉


----------



## erockg

MadMike said:


> Really? Damn- tempted to upgrade from my panny's now. Must resist, must resist...


The Technics are supposed to sound better, but is don’t have the Pannies to compare .


----------



## Caipirina (Aug 9, 2020)

Was I greedy this summer?
The 10 on the left are the ones I brought with me. The 15 on the right are new  I know, I look like a  h̶o̶a̶r̶d̶e̶r̶ collector.




But I am not sure when I can get new stuff once I travel back to my regular residence in the Indian Ocean. AliExpress has switched  to pretty much only high price shipping options on tech after probably doling out tons of dispute money for items never reaching the island. My annual winter trip to Japan is very much surrounded by a lot of question marks ... so ... *what else should I get? *really tempted to get the Samsung beans ... but I fear Amazon will screw up the date again ...


----------



## Caipirina

ssouthall6 said:


> Back to the Tronsmart Apollo, I got them to multipoint this weekend!
> Not really sure how, but they do!


There is something funky going on with the connection to devices. I ran into trouble when I tried to connect them to my TempoTec V1, it worked for like 5 minutes, then a beep and then I had a hard time to get into anything resembling a pairing mode, eventually I got it to connect to phone again. But now every time I take them out of the case they say ‘looking for devices’, it does NOT auto connect to last device in my case. I am hoping it will sort itself out once the app comes (maybe that has to do with allegedly 2 diff FWs out there) 

If sometime they could multipoint like my QC35, that would be so awesome and could easily make them my go-to buds


----------



## DB10

Hi,that is incredible @Caipirina, it am surprised:


Caipirina said:


> Was I greedy this summer?
> The 10 on the left are the ones I brought with me. The 15 on the right are new  I know, I look like a  h̶o̶a̶r̶d̶e̶r̶ collector.
> 
> 
> ...



Based on all your collection and my previous post, ¿what would you recommend me?.




DB10 said:


> Hi,
> 
> I wish you are fine!!! I have been following this thread about one year (more or less) but I had never written, hello everyone!. I love the freedom that TWS give you but I also know that the sound quality is low in comparison with wired ones although I think everything is improving. My iems, that I use everyday, are the CA Andromeda and some other on rotation (Blon BL03, 1 more triple...).
> 
> ...


Thanks in advance!!!


----------



## BobJS

DB10 said:


> Hi,that is incredible @Caipirina, it am surprised:
> 
> 
> Based on all your collection and my previous post, ¿what would you recommend me?.
> ...



You can't ask a hoarder which ONE to recommend!  That's like asking a parent which child he likes best.


----------



## DB10

BobJS said:


> You can't ask a hoarder which ONE to recommend!  That's like asking a parent which child he likes best.




Haha, I am still smiling, well, in fact, I doubt about sending back my Sonys and buying another pair, or continuing with my Melomenia. I cannot access to review and test so many TWS and your experience is so valuable for me...moreover, in Europe it is more difficult than in US or other countries.

Thanks!


----------



## regancipher

Caipirina said:


> There is something funky going on with the connection to devices. I ran into trouble when I tried to connect them to my TempoTec V1, it worked for like 5 minutes, then a beep and then I had a hard time to get into anything resembling a pairing mode, eventually I got it to connect to phone again. But now every time I take them out of the case they say ‘looking for devices’, it does NOT auto connect to last device in my case. I am hoping it will sort itself out once the app comes (maybe that has to do with allegedly 2 diff FWs out there)
> 
> If sometime they could multipoint like my QC35, that would be so awesome and could easily make them my go-to buds


Yeah I haven't been able to replicate it since sadly


----------



## bronco1015

Heres my review of the Tronsmart apollo Bold.
packaging.
Honestly, as long as the product isn't damaged i'm happy. That said, some companies put genuine thought in to packaging, and when it's really done well i definitely appreciate it. Tronsmart nailed the unboxing experience with these.
Once the plastic is removed you see a well constructed box that opens via the front and is magnitized shut when closed.
then theres a plastic cover to remove, and another liner with the iems and case.
under the liner in the bottom of the box are some good quality stock tips, and the USB-C cable doesn't disapoint either.
These can be used in mono if you want.
by default they are in ANC mode. 3 taps on either iem from ANC mode gets you to Ambiant, 3 more taps switches to passive.
2 taps on either iem for play pause, a tap followed by a long press brings up your assistent, 1 tap on right raises; and the same on the left lowers volume; and finally a hold for 3 seconds on left rewinds while the same on right skips to the next track. The functions are well organized, and the touch controls are very precise. some True Wireless models like the MTW, i can control with more of the flat part of my finger. They aren't overly sensitive, but they respond quite well when used this way. With the Apollos i get the best results when using the actual tips of my fingers. When i do the controls are reliable 100% of the time. when i try to use them how i use the MTW, the controls work but sometimes not all of the taps are processed. it's easy to change volume this way or change a track and even play pause, so if you're walking for example and just want to reach up and casually change volume, play pause or switch songs with less thought about placement it shouldn't be an issue. Where you do want to use the tips of your fingers consistently is when switching between the various listening modes.
ANC is not bad. It does reduce the lowest of whirring noises to a degree, but i can still hear talking and other noises in similar ranges quite well with no music playing. I think the ANC is good at at least reducing the sounds of the outside world and with music playing i'm still able to enjoy what i'm listening to. Since travel is so restricted right now, i tested via loud airplane cabin noise coming from my speakers, and while at a friends i turned on ANC to see if it reduced the sound of her kids playing and talking loudly. I could still hear them, but less than i did in passive mode but only slightly.
When switching between each mode the announcement comes through the iem you tap on only. but the audio never stops at any point.
Ambiant mode is natural sounding, and at a good volume level. I can hear my birds talking down the hall quite well and it isn't faint or over powering. That plus the music is really nice to hear. i also used Ambiant at my friend's home and could easily hear the tv and carry a conversation and nothing was to distant or loud.
calls sounded just fine for me, quite good actually. but when i spoke to people with these on, they couldn't hear me as well but as one friend put it, 'I could hear EVERYTHING around you.
The sound, in ANC mode theres a bump in the bass, and i started thinking of what i would and wouldn't listen to when using them in ANC mode.
Ambiant does change the sound slightly, but i'm noticing the more i use them the less that seems to be the case. it's still a bit different but very minor, it just pulls everything back a tiny tiny bit.
regardless of what mode i listen in, i'm noticing the bass is less boomy than it was out of the box.
Treble is rolled off a bit but isn't lacking at all. There is some excessive sub bass at times, but over all everything has place and prominence when called fore. instrument separation is executed well. you really do pick up on the subtleties in whatever you're listening to. There is a sense of space as well, and a decent soundstage.
There are some things i'd change about the tuning, but it would be little alterations here and there.
As is, these are a good option to consider. When the app with eq is released and capability for use in APTXHD is unlocked it will only make these better.


----------



## voicemaster (Aug 9, 2020)

Caipirina said:


> Was I greedy this summer?
> The 10 on the left are the ones I brought with me. The 15 on the right are new  I know, I look like a  h̶o̶a̶r̶d̶e̶r̶ collector.
> 
> 
> ...


Should try the bean. It sounds really good in fact even better than the other gbuds. The bass is really punchy and airy, can be too much mid bass sometimes but it is easily eq able. Mid is great, pretty similar to N6P imho. Treble is not as sparkly, but again with just a little bump in the eq will fix that. I am using it right now outside and no cutting out whatsoever. It just when you are used to regular type iem, its taking a little bit of getting used to the fit.
Oh and I tried the active noise cancelling in my work place (commercial kitchen) and it definitely reduced the hump from the exhaust fan.


----------



## bronco1015

Caipirina said:


> Was I greedy this summer?
> The 10 on the left are the ones I brought with me. The 15 on the right are new  I know, I look like a  h̶o̶a̶r̶d̶e̶r̶ collector.
> 
> 
> ...


IF you're willing to shell out the money for the Galaxy beans, seriously that sounds so much better than Galaxy Buds live, then what about the Technics? Though the Technics might have better ANC, i'm realizing now that as a runner, the beans might give you a sound you like with a form factor better for running.


----------



## Caipirina (Aug 9, 2020)

DB10 said:


> Hi,that is incredible @Caipirina, it am surprised:
> 
> 
> Based on all your collection and my previous post, ¿what would you recommend me?.
> ...


“Best sound” is very subjective. I tested the CA Melomenia and I sent them back because I did not find the sound engaging nor worth keeping. Also, my ears are getting old ... I might not be the best judge. I do like the Sony xm3 (yes, finding the right tips is cumbersome) and the MW07 for their sound, but I also like the Bose house sound in my SSF, I enjoy bassy, warm, dark in I.e. those Apollo’s ...
Since I can’t really put my finger down nor want to decide, I end up with more TWS one could ever need 
I actually tried the Nuarl last time I was in Japan and was not able to understand the hype. Could have been my ears


----------



## Spidermanxd

bronco1015 said:


> IF you're willing to shell out the money for the Galaxy beans, seriously that sounds so much better than Galaxy Buds live, then what about the Technics? Though the Technics might have better ANC, i'm realizing now that as a runner, the beans might give you a sound you like with a form factor better for running.



Galaxy beans and Galaxy buds live are different?


----------



## DB10

Hi @Caipirina, I am also getting old and moreover, I think I have had good ears...haha.



Caipirina said:


> “Best sound” is very subjective. I tested the CA Melomania and I sent them back because I did not find the sound engaging nor worth keeping. Also, my ears are getting old ... I might not be the best judge. I do like the Sony xm3 (yes, finding the right tips is cumbersome) and the MW07 for their sound, but I also like the Bose house sound in my SSF, I enjoy baddy, warm, dark in I.e. those Apollo’s ...
> Since I can’t really put my finger down nor want to decide, I end up with more TWS one could ever need
> I actually tried the Nuarl last time I was in Japan and was not able to understand the hype. Could have been my ears



I think that if you don't think that something is "much better" in comparison with Sonys, I will keep them because the MW07 are quite expensive here in comparison with the price I paid for the Sony XM3. I totally agree about the subjectivity in sound but as you have tested them extensively, it could be quite useful for me.

All the best and I will continue reading and learning from all of you!!!

Stay safe!


----------



## Caipirina

BobJS said:


> You can't ask a hoarder which ONE to recommend!  That's like asking a parent which child he likes best.


EXACTLY!!!!


----------



## Caipirina

Spidermanxd said:


> Galaxy beans and Galaxy buds live are different?


Was wondering the same ...


----------



## Caipirina

DB10 said:


> Hi @Caipirina, I am also getting old and moreover, I think I have had good ears...haha.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


It does not seem like it, but I am a cheapskate: I got the xm3 from amazon warehouse and the MW07 directly from m&d with a 50% off coupon at 99.5€
and be glad you are at least in EU ... I am currently here for the summer (extended thanks to COVID) but I am expected to return soon to an island in the middle of nowhere where amazon does not deliver (at reasonable rates / times)
And who knows when I will be back in ‘civilization’ to get more toys?


----------



## Caipirina

bronco1015 said:


> IF you're willing to shell out the money for the Galaxy beans, seriously that sounds so much better than Galaxy Buds live, then what about the Technics? Though the Technics might have better ANC, i'm realizing now that as a runner, the beans might give you a sound you like with a form factor better for running.


Not sure I understand your post 100% .. when I said ‘beans’ I meant those bean shaped GBLive. And why not Technics? A) they are 100€ more b) the GBL have a new, exciting form factor I am really curious about. Not sure I would use them for running, but maybe sleeping...


----------



## DB10

Caipirina said:


> It does not seem like it, but I am a cheapskate: I got the xm3 from amazon warehouse and the MW07 directly from m&d with a 50% off coupon at 99.5€
> and be glad you are at least in EU ... I am currently here for the summer (extended thanks to COVID) but I am expected to return soon to an island in the middle of nowhere where amazon does not deliver (at reasonable rates / times)
> And who knows when I will be back in ‘civilization’ to get more toys?


Hi!
I wish you all the best with COVID, I would have loved getting the MW07 but I did not read the post after it was no longer valid...I think I will stay withv the Sony until all of you would recommend anything else as the best option.

Thanks for your reply!


----------



## voicemaster

Caipirina said:


> “Best sound” is very subjective. I tested the CA Melomenia and I sent them back because I did not find the sound engaging nor worth keeping. Also, my ears are getting old ... I might not be the best judge. I do like the Sony xm3 (yes, finding the right tips is cumbersome) and the MW07 for their sound, but I also like the Bose house sound in my SSF, I enjoy bassy, warm, dark in I.e. those Apollo’s ...
> Since I can’t really put my finger down nor want to decide, I end up with more TWS one could ever need
> I actually tried the Nuarl last time I was in Japan and was not able to understand the hype. Could have been my ears


Then the gbuds live is good for you if it fit. I has warmer sound than the other gbuds. The vocal has a fair thickness making female voice fuller. It has a dipped in the upper treble, but since I can't hear pass 16khz, it really doesn't matter to me. I could increase 16khz+ to max and couldn't hear any difference  . Might need to try using it while running to see if there is those thumping sound.


----------



## d3myz (Aug 9, 2020)

erockg said:


> I do have something strange to report. So I was out walking with my toddler around the neighborhood and decided to test the GBL’s outside. My Bluetooth connection was horrible. I was passing by apartment buildings and then crossing the street in open areas where the Bluetooth signal cannot bounce off anything and the music kept fading in and out. I’m using a new 2020 iPhone SE. That’s said, I’m on iOS 14 beta so maybe that has something to do with it. I’m curious if anyone else has any issues while out and about walking. My phone was in my front left pocket facing down, Which is usually how I always carry my phone.


I have had a ton of problems with Bluetooth on iOS 14 beta three and four. Even my AirPods Pro sound overly sharp. I’ve  also had a bunch of weird connectivity and balancing issues with my Apollo bolds.


----------



## TK33

Spidermanxd said:


> Galaxy beans and Galaxy buds live are different?



Think he meant that he thinks the Galaxy Buds Live (the official name) should have been officially named Galaxy Beans instead, which I believe was the codename.


----------



## bronco1015

Spidermanxd said:


> Galaxy beans and Galaxy buds live are different?


NO. I"m saying i think buds live isn't a great name. Beans is catchy and unique since based on leaks they were affectionately called galaxy beans.


----------



## Caipirina

voicemaster said:


> Then the gbuds live is good for you if it fit. I has warmer sound than the other gbuds. The vocal has a fair thickness making female voice fuller. It has a dipped in the upper treble, but since I can't hear pass 16khz, it really doesn't matter to me. I could increase 16khz+ to max and couldn't hear any difference  . Might need to try using it while running to see if there is those thumping sound.


Since it does not seal like IEMs but is closer to semi-open, I'd expect that they don't thump ... i just think they look too shiny for running   Also curious to find out a bit more how Samsung stuff now plays with Apple ... I understand there is now an extra iOS app (Long time ago I tried the Gear Icon X, but sent them back quite quickly, did not play well, could also not get a good fit ... somehow arrived (from amazon marketplace) with French as default language .. oh, and missing eartips / wings ...


----------



## bronco1015

TK33 said:


> Think he meant that he thinks the Galaxy Buds Live (the official name) should have been officially named Galaxy Beans instead, which I believe was the codename.


 Exactly. Hey last time you used your MTW, what battery life did you get out of them? mine have went down to 2 hours and 47 mins.


----------



## Caipirina

bronco1015 said:


> NO. I"m saying i think buds live isn't a great name. Beans is catchy and unique since based on leaks they were affectionately called galaxy beans.


Actually just watched a guy on YT saying exactly the same ... maybe that was you?


----------



## VICosPhi

bronco1015 said:


> Exactly. Hey last time you used your MTW, what battery life did you get out of them? mine have went down to 2 hours and 47 mins.


Ouch, that is a really short runtime I think you should contact Sennheiser if they are in warranty. I have the 2nd gen MTW and they are less than a month old yet they last only 4 hours 50 minutes with ANC off, which is way less than advertised 7 hours runtime.


----------



## erockg

d3myz said:


> I have had a ton of problems with Bluetooth on iOS 14 beta three and four. Even my AirPods Pro sound overly sharp. I’ve  also had a bunch of weird connectivity and balancing issues with my Apollo bolds.


Interesting, I think you're right.  I just connected the GBL to my iPad pro which is still on iOS 13 and while walking around my house no dropouts.  Same walk with my iPhone on iOS 14 beta, it starts to drop.  Did you downgrade?


----------



## Peddler

sarv said:


> Apollo bold or Sony xm3 anyone got both of them? Which one would you recommend?


Definitely the Sony.  WF1000XM3 are one of my favourite bluetooth iems.  Huge improvement over the Apollo's but they also cost more.


----------



## bronco1015

Caipirina said:


> Not sure I understand your post 100% .. when I said ‘beans’ I meant those bean shaped GBLive. And why not Technics? A) they are 100€ more b) the GBL have a new, exciting form factor I am really curious about. Not sure I would use them for running, but maybe sleeping...


 I know which ones you meant, i was saying the GB live is just an okay name, wish they'd just been called Galaxy beans officially. As for the Technics, i think they'd be a potentially great purchase. I just wondered if the GBL might be a preference. I based that off posts i've seen from you where you call out liking the X12 pro, Anbes 359 etc. Plust here in the states at least the GBL's are cheaper. I'll just end with what i was gonna say originally. just buy both lol.


----------



## bronco1015

Caipirina said:


> Actually just watched a guy on YT saying exactly the same ... maybe that was you?


Lol wasn't me, but i am working on getting a channel started.


VICosPhi said:


> Ouch, that is a really short runtime I think you should contact Sennheiser if they are in warranty. I have the 2nd gen MTW and they are less than a month old yet they last only 4 hours 50 minutes with ANC off, which is way less than advertised 7 hours runtime.


 I would, but last time i talked to them when my case broke, the Woman i spoke with said the case wasn't covered, only the iems. And the case battery is not where it used to be either, so i'm just gonna ride it out with them. It's a bummer though, only had them for 20-21 months. i was gonna ask you what kind of battery life you were getting with ANC off, i need to do another battery drain fully this time with no ANC.


----------



## voicemaster

bronco1015 said:


> I know which ones you meant, i was saying the GB live is just an okay name, wish they'd just been called Galaxy beans officially. As for the Technics, i think they'd be a potentially great purchase. I just wondered if the GBL might be a preference. I based that off posts i've seen from you where you call out liking the X12 pro, Anbes 359 etc. Plust here in the states at least the GBL's are cheaper. I'll just end with what i was gonna say originally. just buy both lol.


if we all start to call it Gbeans then it will become the "official" name here lol.


----------



## VICosPhi

bronco1015 said:


> I would, but last time i talked to them when my case broke, the Woman i spoke with said the case wasn't covered, only the iems. And the case battery is not where it used to be either, so i'm just gonna ride it out with them. It's a bummer though, only had them for 20-21 months. i was gonna ask you what kind of battery life you were getting with ANC off, i need to do another battery drain fully this time with no ANC.


Oh really? I thought the case was covered under warranty since it is not an accessory but rather an integral part of the earphones (such as charger). It is crazy if they don't cover the case under warranty at this price. 

I get 4 hours of use with ANC ON, tested a few times already on my MTW2.


----------



## Spidermanxd

VICosPhi said:


> Oh really? I thought the case was covered under warranty since it is not an accessory but rather an integral part of the earphones (such as charger). It is crazy if they don't cover the case under warranty at this price.
> 
> I get 4 hours of use with ANC ON, tested a few times already on my MTW2.


Yes I got 4 hrs as well, advertise 7.5 hrs is bs


----------



## TK33

bronco1015 said:


> Exactly. Hey last time you used your MTW, what battery life did you get out of them? mine have went down to 2 hours and 47 mins.



I haven't been able to listen for any extended period of time recently due to constantly being on calls and use my speakers more these days than IEMs but will try to test it out this week.


----------



## Shadowclash10

davidtriune said:


> I want to collect more wireless IEMs, but reluctant since it's like you're "renting" them for about 5 years before the lithium batteries deteriorate.


True But chi-fi more or less negates this arguement. I mean $20-50? over 2-3 years? no brainer. But $300 for 2-3 years? Umm, nah. Headphones can last virtually forever, as long as you are careful. Not battery stuff.


----------



## Shadowclash10

Caipirina said:


> Like so?


Darn... the one time I envy everyone in Europe for a sale... Ah well. Amazon US or Bestbuy should have a similar deal soon. IMO 100% buy for me at $100-110.


----------



## VICosPhi

Shadowclash10 said:


> Darn... the one time I envy everyone in Europe for a sale... Ah well. Amazon US or Bestbuy should have a similar deal soon. IMO 100% buy for me at $100-110.




Costco has white Buds+ for $90 + tax

https://www.costco.com/samsung-galaxy-buds-true-wireless-earbud-headphones.product.100484223.html


----------



## erockg

VICosPhi said:


> Costco has white Buds+ for $90 + tax
> 
> https://www.costco.com/samsung-galaxy-buds-true-wireless-earbud-headphones.product.100484223.html


Sadly, those are the first gen, not the plus.


----------



## VICosPhi

erockg said:


> Sadly, those are the first gen, not the plus.


Ah sorry, my bad. The Buds+ were on sale yesterday for $100 but looks like they are sold out now
https://electronics.woot.com/offers/samsung-galaxy-buds-true-wireless-earbuds-1?


----------



## voicemaster (Aug 9, 2020)

What kind of sorcery does samsung do to make the bass on a supposedly open IEM so freaking good. The more I am listening to the GBeans, the more I appreciate by the design and tuning that went into this buds. Linkin Park - Lying from You, Grimes - Venus Fly and Lorde - Glory and Gore done beautifully on the beans. And what amaze me even more is I am using my windows 10 desktop and no cracking/distortion that I always hear when using the Gbuds and Gbuds plus. The only EQ I use on my GBeans is +2dB on 10khz and +3dB on 14khz. I don't know if the EQ from Galaxy Wearable app is saved into the buds even when not connecting it to my phone or not. If it saved then I am using the "clear" EQ. ANC and ambiance is turned off. Oh and Blue Man Group - How to be a Megastar album really shows the soundstage capability of the Gbeans.


----------



## Caipirina

davidtriune said:


> I want to collect more wireless IEMs, but reluctant since it's like you're "renting" them for about 5 years before the lithium batteries deteriorate.


What bugs me about this is that we basically buy tomorrow’s trash! 
The trash heap of used electronics is already like the size of several hundreds of cruise ships (last year’s dump 350 cruise ships!)
I am aware that I am not a shining example of minimalism ...


----------



## voicemaster

davidtriune said:


> I want to collect more wireless IEMs, but reluctant since it's like you're "renting" them for about 5 years before the lithium batteries deteriorate.


You can easily change the battery on Samsung Galaxy Buds and Buds plus. I don't know any other brand that you can easily change the battery on their TWS.


----------



## Caipirina

voicemaster said:


> What kind of sorcery does samsung do to make the bass on a supposedly open IEM so freaking good. The more I am listening to the GBeans, the more I appreciate by the design and tuning that went into this buds. Linkin Park - Lying from You, Grimes - Venus Fly and Lorde - Glory and Gore done beautifully on the beans. And what amaze me even more is I am using my windows 10 desktop and no cracking/distortion that I always hear when using the Gbuds and Gbuds plus. The only EQ I use on my GBeans is +2dB on 10khz and +3dB on 14khz. I don't know if the EQ from Galaxy Wearable app is saved into the buds even when not connecting it to my phone or not. If it saved then I am using the "clear" EQ. ANC and ambiance is turned off. Oh and Blue Man Group - How to be a Megastar album really shows the soundstage capability of the Gbeans.


My spider senses get more and more tingly on those. How would you rate the ANC? 
i already was about to order from amazon, but still ... anyone here tried them in iOS environment? I think I read somewhere they even do AAC?


----------



## voicemaster

Caipirina said:


> My spider senses get more and more tingly on those. How would you rate the ANC?
> i already was about to order from amazon, but still ... anyone here tried them in iOS environment? I think I read somewhere they even do AAC?


I tried the ANC on outside my work place and it mostly eliminates the wind noise, fan noise, fridge noise. I can still hear people chat, car passing by, plastic bag crunching easily without any music. With music, I can barely hear outside noise. Like right now the central AC in my house is on, with music on and ANC off, I don't even hear the AC at all lol. But I tried as I said earlier when I was in my work place that it is quite noticeable difference from ANC on and off. Like your world suddenly went quiet with the noises, but you can still clearly hear people talking, etc.


----------



## bronco1015

VICosPhi said:


> Oh really? I thought the case was covered under warranty since it is not an accessory but rather an integral part of the earphones (such as charger). It is crazy if they don't cover the case under warranty at this price.
> 
> I get 4 hours of use with ANC ON, tested a few times already on my MTW2.


I remember that from last week when we compared,  What about with ANC off? sennheiser may have changed what's covered, or i got a rep who gave me incorrect information, i think the case should be covered as well, for the obvious reason you point out here. I couldn't believe it when she told me that. But i was trying to ask @TK33 about his battery life on the MTW. That's the one i'm refering to, not the MTW2.


----------



## bronco1015

TK33 said:


> I haven't been able to listen for any extended period of time recently due to constantly being on calls and use my speakers more these days than IEMs but will try to test it out this week.


Awesome thanks. Yeah been using my speakers more as well. I'm probably gonna have to put my HD800S away so they don't collect dust. which i never thought i'd say.


----------



## VICosPhi

bronco1015 said:


> I remember that from last week when we compared,  What about with ANC off? sennheiser may have changed what's covered, or i got a rep who gave me incorrect information, i think the case should be covered as well, for the obvious reason you point out here. I couldn't believe it when she told me that. But i was trying to ask @TK33 about his battery life on the MTW. That's the one i'm refering to, not the MTW2.


With ANC off, I get 4 hours 40 minutes. Yeah try contacting Sennheiser again, could be that rep didn't give out correct info. I understand physical damage to the case being out of warranty but this is a defect in normal functionality and should be covered imo.


----------



## bronco1015

VICosPhi said:


> With ANC off, I get 4 hours 40 minutes. Yeah try contacting Sennheiser again, could be that rep didn't give out correct info. I understand physical damage to the case being out of warranty but this is a defect in normal functionality and should be covered imo.


 yeah i think i mentioned it earlier today, but the case actually did break. It fell from an ottoman to a soft carpet and the hhinge broke. Battery degredation came afterwords. I don't think this will be an issue with the MTW2, or at least not as easily broken, the case is the same yes, but the lid feels more stable than the MTW1 case lid ever did.


----------



## turbobb

Not sure if this has been posted (we are at 1636 pages after all now... ) but...
Gave the Mavin Air-XR to my son and he made an interesting discovery, the buds can be charged in either slot. I verified this with a DMM (they smartly reversed the charging polarity on one of the buds):


----------



## Shadowclash10

Spidermanxd said:


> Galaxy beans and Galaxy buds live are different?


No . There are: Galaxy Buds (Gbuds), Galaxy Buds + (Gbuds +), and Galaxy *Buds Live*/Beans.


----------



## Shadowclash10

voicemaster said:


> if we all start to call it Gbeans then it will become the "official" name here lol.


Ah, smart. I get it: Gbuds -> Gbuds + -> Gbeans!


----------



## Shadowclash10

voicemaster said:


> You can easily change the battery on Samsung Galaxy Buds and Buds plus. I don't know any other brand that you can easily change the battery on their TWS.


Only Sony WF-1000XM3 also, to the best of my knowledge.


----------



## Shadowclash10

VICosPhi said:


> Ah sorry, my bad. The Buds+ were on sale yesterday for $100 but looks like they are sold out now
> https://electronics.woot.com/offers/samsung-galaxy-buds-true-wireless-earbuds-1?


Darn it! Ah well. If @Caipirina found a *Amazon* (not Woot, Amazon) deal for 103 euros, Amazon US should be selling roughly the same any day now.


----------



## VZWDJ

Just received my Tronsmart Apollo Bold.... Initial impressions are premium packaging and premium feeling earbuds. Definitely had a nice loud Bass heavy sound, but I will update as I use them more. Nice compact case and ANC seems solid so far. Will update more as I use them.


----------



## VICosPhi

Shadowclash10 said:


> Darn it! Ah well. If @Caipirina found a *Amazon* (not Woot, Amazon) deal for 103 euros, Amazon US should be selling roughly the same any day now.


Funny thing is that Woot is now owned by Amazon! So there is a good chance we will see a similar deal on  Amazon.com


----------



## Shadowclash10

VICosPhi said:


> Funny thing is that Woot is now owned by Amazon! So there is a good chance we will see a similar deal on  Amazon.com


I know! Amazon deals last way longer than Woot. And if Amazon EU got Buds Plus for close to $100, Amazon US should too. So not sure why Woot had a deal for $100 Buds Plus...


----------



## TK33 (Aug 10, 2020)

bronco1015 said:


> Awesome thanks. Yeah been using my speakers more as well. I'm probably gonna have to put my HD800S away so they don't collect dust. which i never thought i'd say.


I have been using my MTWs since exactly 9:30 pm EST (August 10th, I was watching Netflix for about an hour and half and switched to music while I worked on my desktop.  My source for music is UAPP/Qobuz on my LG V60 at approximately 50% volume. Netflix was also on my V60 so it was connected the whole time. It is now 12:55am (almost 3 1/2 hours later) and my V60 (in bluetooth settings aand Smart Control app) is reporting10% (just changed from 20% two minutes ago @ 12:53 am so I expect it to turn off soon).

EDIT: I got the "recharge headset" prompt @ 1:05 am.

EDIT 2: power off @ 1:12 am so 3 hours and 42 minutes. I did double check to make sure I was usong aptX before it quit on me. My case, on the other hand, definitely drains in a few days now (that is what really annoys me).  I used to be able to go for a week without using or charging the MTW amd still be able to pick it up afterwards and find it with some juice left but not anymore...


----------



## Shadowclash10

Can't delete repeated posts apparently...


----------



## faisal2003456 (Aug 10, 2020)

Is there any consensus over what the best sounding true wireless are, or are they all kind of in the neighborhood of the airpods pro and galaxy buds.


----------



## VICosPhi

faisal2003456 said:


> Is there any consensus over what the best sounding true wireless are, or are they all kind of in the neighborhood of the airpods pro and galaxy buds.


Sound being subjective, I think it will be difficult to agree on what is the best sound. Some prefer neutral tuning, some like bass heavy sound, others like mids or bright sounding signature. 

However, in general I would vote for Sennheiser MTW2 for their soundstage, bass impact and quality mids. The highs are reserved though and to some people they could sound muffled.


----------



## voicemaster

faisal2003456 said:


> Is there any consensus over what the best sounding true wireless are, or are they all kind of in the neighborhood of the airpods pro and galaxy buds.


For all rounder, I recommend Nuarl N6 pro. For budget friendly price, Tronsmart spunky beats, Fiil T1X, Haylou GT1 Plus. The new galaxy buds live is also growing on me. Those are the TWS that I've tried, there are a lot more out there that sound just as good.


----------



## faisal2003456

Right. I guess the nuance to my question would be, do people feel as if the technology for the higher end has made a big leap past samsung/apple's offerings.  

My Galaxy Buds just died, and I could simply get replacement buds or look for an upgrade in SQ. I was considering the Melomania, but the mic's call quality sounded sub-par, and the other options, the Sony's are kinda bulky.  It seems as though there isn't a product that wins at portability, connectivity, SQ, and call quality.


----------



## phaeton70

VZWDJ said:


> Just received my Tronsmart Apollo Bold....



congrats, great earbuds IMHO  
give'em a couple of days to settle, the bass will level down a little bit.


----------



## Caipirina

Shadowclash10 said:


> Darn it! Ah well. If @Caipirina found a *Amazon* (not Woot, Amazon) deal for 103 euros, Amazon US should be selling roughly the same any day now.


I am actually a tad concerned about that amazon.de offer. Seems to be some middle man company, not Samsung direct, and seeing just how many clones are out on AliExpress... just saying with cheap offers, tread carefully


----------



## AudioNoob (Aug 10, 2020)

Given the grain/noise in the high frequencies with APTX(in comparison to AAC), what is the actual benefit of using aptX? I know AAC uses psychoacoustic models and that compression is not consistent between phones/chipsets. See test here for the test file I hear a lot of noise on with APTX between 14khz-18khz https://www.audiocheck.net/audiotests_frequencycheckhigh.php


----------



## voicemaster (Aug 10, 2020)

faisal2003456 said:


> Right. I guess the nuance to my question would be, do people feel as if the technology for the higher end has made a big leap past samsung/apple's offerings.
> 
> My Galaxy Buds just died, and I could simply get replacement buds or look for an upgrade in SQ. I was considering the Melomania, but the mic's call quality sounded sub-par, and the other options, the Sony's are kinda bulky.  It seems as though there isn't a product that wins at portability, connectivity, SQ, and call quality.


Galaxy buds plus or if you can try the new galaxy buds live, it is worth a try. Beats my galaxy buds plus in sound quality for sure.


----------



## Ultrainferno

In today's review we check out the 1MORE True Wireless ANC IEM 
https://www.headfonia.com/1more-true-wireless-anc-iem-review/


----------



## chinmie

faisal2003456 said:


> Right. I guess the nuance to my question would be, do people feel as if the technology for the higher end has made a big leap past samsung/apple's offerings.
> 
> My Galaxy Buds just died, and I could simply get replacement buds or look for an upgrade in SQ. I was considering the Melomania, but the mic's call quality sounded sub-par, and the other options, the Sony's are kinda bulky.  It seems as though there isn't a product that wins at portability, connectivity, SQ, and call quality.



i'd say the Gbuds are somewhat the middle ground in TWS world at the moment in terms of everything: price, SQ, feature, call quality, size, portability, etc. if i was forced to have only one, i myself would go for the Gbuds.
my favorite TWS right now is the XM3, but that is because it has an EQ so i can find my tuning. if it can't be tuned, i probably would have sold them from day one. all other feature of the XM3 is top notch though for me, even the fit.. i don't find it to be a bother

if the only concern is SQ, i personally think even the cheaply priced Spunky beats, Haylous, and QCYs can really hold their own.


----------



## VICosPhi

AudioNoob said:


> Given the grain/noise in the high frequencies with APTX(in comparison to AAC), what is the actual benefit of using aptX? I know AAC uses psychoacoustic models and that compression is not consistent between phones/chipsets. See test here for the test file I hear a lot of noise on with APTX between 14khz-18khz https://www.audiocheck.net/audiotests_frequencycheckhigh.php


I think this is a very complex topic. From my experience, the implementation of APTX and AAC (even SBC) matters a lot in a resulting sound. On my Note 10+, APTX sounds best with MTW2. AAC sounds worse and I also have to turn up the volume more. SBC sounds as good as AAC and much louder than AAC(same loudness as APTX), but SBC provides more bass (thought it could be an effect of SBC cutting off high frequencies).


----------



## Caipirina

Shadowclash10 said:


> Can't delete repeated posts apparently...


You can edit one of them to ... or ‘repeat post was here’


----------



## Caipirina

Caipirina said:


> I am actually a tad concerned about that amazon.de offer. Seems to be some middle man company, not Samsung direct, and seeing just how many clones are out on AliExpress... just saying with cheap offers, tread carefully


That being said, I have to admit that I ordered a pair of GB fakes  on purpose! Only 10$, surprisingly fast shipping (they already reached German customs last Thursday) and I always wanted a pair of YELLOW tws  sometimes it is about color coordination.... let’s see just how bad they can be.


----------



## eiraku (Aug 10, 2020)

The fact that the 'Polos have been proving rather... divisive... has got my spider senses tingling.

The BT20Pros seem a while off and my Creative Outlier Airs have been "retired" to the "backup" role (aka the "leave in glove compartment for emergencies" role, with the Meizu EP52 being bumped up to "exercise" duty instead) so the L2P is feeling kinda lonely now being the only TWS in "regular" rotation.

And I'm still without a decent ANC set. I wonder if Shopee MY has extra coupons I can use on the 'Polos.


----------



## FYLegend

So what's the consensus of the 1More ColorBuds? How do they compare to something like the Lypertek Tevi?  I see they added volume controls but it seems like I have to sacrifice using smart assistant or something?

Anyone bought Apollo to ship to Canada? How long did it take. I'm not a fan of Geekbuying shipping which usually takes about 3 weeks, epacket and UBI only take 10 dayts assuming the seller processes the order quickly.



ssouthall6 said:


> Back to the Tronsmart Apollo, I got them to multipoint this weekend!
> Not really sure how, but they do!


Are they paired and can immediately output from either source individually? Not sure about the newest chipset but with older Qualcomm chipsets some people THOUGHT they had multipoint but it turned out you could pair the left bud to one device and right one to another, so you can actually make it connect to one device over another if you take that earbud out first. On Android can also set one earbud to be call only but media volume will only output from the other device.


----------



## georgelai57

20Decebel confirmed via their official store on Aliexpress that with the Airoha chip, it is simultaneous transmission to both left and right earpieces when using an iPhone with their ANC buds. This is useful for us iOS users as those using Qualcomm chips don’t have functioning TWS Stereo+


----------



## DB10

Hi again,



voicemaster said:


> Then the gbuds live is good for you if it fit. I has warmer sound than the other gbuds. The vocal has a fair thickness making female voice fuller. It has a dipped in the upper treble, but since I can't hear pass 16khz, it really doesn't matter to me. I could increase 16khz+ to max and couldn't hear any difference  . Might need to try using it while running to see if there is those thumping sound.





Peddler said:


> Definitely the Sony.  WF1000XM3 are one of my favourite bluetooth iems.  Huge improvement over the Apollo's but they also cost more.





voicemaster said:


> For all rounder, I recommend Nuarl N6 pro. For budget friendly price, Tronsmart spunky beats, Fiil T1X, Haylou GT1 Plus. The new galaxy buds live is also growing on me. Those are the TWS that I've tried, there are a lot more out there that sound just as good.



thanks all for your help, your posts are quite useful for me. Here, in Spain, the Nuarl are quite difficult to buy without paying a high amount of customs duties so that based on the Sony XM3 opinions, I will keep them or consider, as an alternative, the Gbuds Live, I will review the cost and availability!.

Thanks again and looking forward to continuing to collaborate in the thread, although my experience is quite limited...


----------



## bronco1015 (Aug 10, 2020)

TK33 said:


> I have been using my MTWs since exactly 9:30 pm EST (August 10th, I was watching Netflix for about an hour and half and switched to music while I worked on my desktop.  My source for music is UAPP/Qobuz on my LG V60 at approximately 50% volume. Netflix was also on my V60 so it was connected the whole time. It is now 12:55am (almost 3 1/2 hours later) and my V60 (in bluetooth settings aand Smart Control app) is reporting10% (just changed from 20% two minutes ago @ 12:53 am so I expect it to turn off soon).
> 
> EDIT: I got the "recharge headset" prompt @ 1:05 am.
> 
> EDIT 2: power off @ 1:12 am so 3 hours and 42 minutes. I did double check to make sure I was usong aptX before it quit on me. My case, on the other hand, definitely drains in a few days now (that is what really annoys me).  I used to be able to go for a week without using or charging the MTW amd still be able to pick it up afterwards and find it with some juice left but not anymore...


Yeah these were/are a great product, but things like the quick battery drain of the case are big disapointments. Glad you're getting almost a full hour more than i am with them, i keep them at  50% volume as well,  it's plenty loud for me. I can say though, owning the MTW2, i have purposely let them sit for weeks at a time and then used them and the app shows 100% even after 20 or so mins of use. so while the MTW2 doesn't hit the 7 hour mark with ANC on, at least Sennheiser has fixed the battery drain issue.


----------



## bronco1015

The Tranya T10 are $10 off on Amazon US with a coupon bringing them to $39.99, which is what Tranya has been selling them at for a while but with promo codes.
i got an email yesterday asking if i wanted to test a pair, they get here tomorrow. i'll post some thoughts on them.


----------



## DigDub

Got them. Have to update to the latest firmware to gain the ability to turn off the LED light when in use.


----------



## jasonb

VICosPhi said:


> I think this is a very complex topic. From my experience, the implementation of APTX and AAC (even SBC) matters a lot in a resulting sound. On my Note 10+, APTX sounds best with MTW2. AAC sounds worse and I also have to turn up the volume more. SBC sounds as good as AAC and much louder than AAC(same loudness as APTX), but SBC provides more bass (thought it could be an effect of SBC cutting off high frequencies).



I've experienced that AAC on the 2 OnePlus phones I've had sounded pretty bad, while AAC sounds great on my Pixel 3a.


----------



## regancipher

jasonb said:


> I've experienced that AAC on the 2 OnePlus phones I've had sounded pretty bad, while AAC sounds great on my Pixel 3a.


That would make perfect sense. AAC is power-inefficient, and OnePlus and Huawei are generally poorly equipped to handle it, in both quality and latency


----------



## Sam L

chinmie said:


> i'd say the Gbuds are somewhat the middle ground in TWS world at the moment in terms of everything: price, SQ, feature, call quality, size, portability, etc. if i was forced to have only one, i myself would go for the Gbuds.
> my favorite TWS right now is the XM3, but that is because it has an EQ so i can find my tuning. if it can't be tuned, i probably would have sold them from day one. all other feature of the XM3 is top notch though for me, even the fit.. i don't find it to be a bother
> 
> if the only concern is SQ, i personally think even the cheaply priced Spunky beats, Haylous, and QCYs can really hold their own.


Same. The xm3 are at the top of the list for me, especially after realizing there's enough room in the case to use double flange silicone tips (rha).


----------



## Bhelpoori (Aug 10, 2020)

ssouthall6 said:


> That would make perfect sense. AAC is power-inefficient, and OnePlus and Huawei are generally poorly equipped to handle it, in both quality and latency


"AAC" is actually a toolbox of many different audio encoding and decoding tools which started in 1997 and keep on evolving until the present day. "AAC" is therefore almost like saying "Hamburger," you know what it looks like but some taste great, some taste average, some take a long time to prepare and some don't. This is the same with both encoding and decoding tools in AAC (and BTW most video codecs too).

On Android, by the way it is designed, originally left the encoding and decoding to others (a long story, which I'll leave for later) which has led to inconsistencies between devices (where the chip decodes the audio), applications (where the software encodes the audio) and really anyone in between.This is never going to change though Google and others have been trying to make it better e.g. LDAC included in Android.

AAC like all codec designs has to take a guess at the encoding and decoding capabilities of the host. AAC took the the decision that the encoder was likely in a bigger computer than the decoder and so put more of the weight onto the encoder. This is why TWS with AAC get roughly the same battery life as SBC... Today, the amount of CPU and memory that AAC consumes are now insignificant so that isn't the limit, though occasionally because on Android it is a long running thing,  it runs into task scheduling issues.


----------



## DB10

Sam L said:


> Same. The xm3 are at the top of the list for me, especially after realizing there's enough room in the case to use double flange silicone tips (rha).


I confirm the case is quite large!


----------



## jasonb (Aug 10, 2020)

ssouthall6 said:


> That would make perfect sense. AAC is power-inefficient, and OnePlus and Huawei are generally poorly equipped to handle it, in both quality and latency



I just hope the Pixel 4a I have on pre-order sounds just as good as my 3a with my WF1000xm3. I'm assuming that it will.

I think with EQ the WF1000xm3 sound amazing. I love having the option of ANC and the ambient sound mode. I don't hear any obvious loss of SQ with them being Bluetooth. Even when I'm home and have "better" gear at hand I find myself using these a lot instead.


----------



## Caipirina

Anyon else with the Apollos have that they (or at least the right bud) does not properly charge when in case? Second time I popped them in and I see only 20% ... so, they are now in the group of 'i have to monitor your charging' buds  (like my X12s or my SSF) ... 

Currently using the original tips L size ...


----------



## assassin10000

Caipirina said:


> Anyon else with the Apollos have that they (or at least the right bud) does not properly charge when in case? Second time I popped them in and I see only 20% ... so, they are now in the group of 'i have to monitor your charging' buds  (like my X12s or my SSF) ...
> 
> Currently using the original tips L size ...



I noticed initially with my X12's the right side did not want to stay charging if dropped in, the LED would show charging briefly but then stop charging. 

Then I noticed if I wiggle it left & right one time after dropping it in, the charging works fine after. Now a days I just drop them in, wiggle them and shut the lid.


----------



## Shadowclash10

chinmie said:


> i'd say the Gbuds are somewhat the middle ground in TWS world at the moment in terms of everything: price, SQ, feature, call quality, size, portability, etc. if i was forced to have only one, i myself would go for the Gbuds.
> my favorite TWS right now is the XM3, but that is because it has an EQ so i can find my tuning. if it can't be tuned, i probably would have sold them from day one. all other feature of the XM3 is top notch though for me, even the fit.. i don't find it to be a bother
> 
> if the only concern is SQ, i personally think even the cheaply priced Spunky beats, Haylous, and QCYs can really hold their own.


Right... Gbuds are also now frequently between $80-100 nowadays... ofc now that there is a bigger hitter than the Buds + (the Buds Live), and we are seeing all of these sales on the Gbuds, they might be discontinued soon... Gbuds + for $100 is what I am looking forward too - 100% upgrade over the formers for a bit more (once they start getting heavily discounted), better everything. IMO the only thing I really liked more about the Gbuds is the less glossy case compared to the Gbuds +'s case.


----------



## Shadowclash10

Caipirina said:


> That being said, I have to admit that I ordered a pair of GB fakes  on purpose! Only 10$, surprisingly fast shipping (they already reached German customs last Thursday) and I always wanted a pair of YELLOW tws  sometimes it is about color coordination.... let’s see just how bad they can be.


I think you know how bad those will be  . Chi-fi is fine, as long as you are buying from a known good chi-fi brand (Tranya, Fiil, etc. ) But when you buy cheap versions of ultra-popular buds (Airpods come to mind), those are always trash. But hey, always possible that these blow your mind 

My predictions:

Extremely tinny audio
Instructions will be in Chinese only 
1-2 hours of playback
Decent seal
Possibly button controls?
Dropouts
Unusable mic.
On the other hand, this is ~$11 . Might as well give it a try, amirite!


----------



## Shadowclash10

So weird... I'm fully expecting the WF-1000XM4s to release soon, especially since the over ear model, the WH-1000XM4s were just released, and the last gen WF-1000XM3s (argh, so many characters and digits!) have been discounted almost every week, it seems, but no news sources are making any predictions about it 🤷‍♂️.

EDIT: maybe because everyone is so hyped up about the over ears model right now?


----------



## logiatype (Aug 10, 2020)

For anyone who cares about this, codec support for the GBL is identical to the GB+ @FYLegend






Edit:
Initial thoughts on Galaxy Beans is... disappointed by the hype.
All the talk of "tons" of bass is really about mid/high bass. I was hoping for some magical solution to earbud sub-bass roll-off but the bass ducts don't really do it for me (rumble is anemic).

Other than that, it sounds a lot more veiled compared to any of the mediocre ChiFi hypebeast (T4, BLON03, etc) IEM. Even on the Dynamic setting, it seems fairly lifeless and not very engaging.

Microphone is trash (as expected).

It's not as comfortable as I expected. They are incredibly light but sandwiched hard plastic is definitely not going to match silicon tips. With the Xelastec tips, I don't have any issue with IEMs now.

The inevitable shine on these is highly annoying. Pretty much have to wipe these down every time I take them out at the end of the day.

No multipoint, non-engaging sound, poor isolation (expected) and same crappy SBC settings, it's hard to see what these things do spectacularly. I don't even particularly want to listen to music on them at all.


----------



## regancipher

dwells said:


> Anyone know anything about the Aukey EP-N5 active noise canceling buds that came out recently? I can’t find much for reviews. At $50 with ANC I’m not expecting much, but Scarbir seemed to really like the Aukey T21, so I’m hesitant to write these new ones off completely.


Yep, I tested them today.

They look great.

That's where it goes downhill


----------



## rulerofrecords

bronco1015 said:


> I remember that from last week when we compared,  What about with ANC off? sennheiser may have changed what's covered, or i got a rep who gave me incorrect information, i think the case should be covered as well, for the obvious reason you point out here. I couldn't believe it when she told me that. But i was trying to ask @TK33 about his battery life on the MTW. That's the one i'm refering to, not the MTW2.



If you really wanna do this (which I do not think is all that serious after all) - but hey, if you want to part with them and you do live in Europe (me thinks UT is one of those 50 states) then just lemme know ...


----------



## MadMike

DigDub said:


> Got them. Have to update to the latest firmware to gain the ability to turn off the LED light when in use.


Look forward to your impressions! I like them quite a bit, though I am limited to just these and the XM3 as far as TWS are concerned.


----------



## Peddler

Strangely I love the default sound of the Sony WF1000XM3's - no eq and no active noise cancelling.  The fit does take a little getting used to and I don't tend to use these when out and about but I love their sound quality. Same goes with my WH1000XM2's - no bells and whistles - just a really nice LDAC connection.  Shame I can't use the WF's with my new Sony Walkman but the player doesn't support AAC - only SBC, APTX and LDAC.


----------



## Shadowclash10

I would consider the Buds Live, but I always have a problem with non-in ears, earbud styles. Never get a good fit and they always hurt. So nah. 

BTW, what advantage do the Buds Live have over the Sony WF-100XM3s? When the WFs get discounted, they drop to around the same price. Similar battery life. The Buds Live does have IPX2 (but that is barely anything) and a smaller charging case, but then the WFs do have a longer case battery life, so... I think that ANC and soundon the WFs are superior? Are they similar enough that it is more of a style choice (ie, do you want in-ears or non in-ears)?

 So most people here seem to like the Buds Live's ANC, but most review websites first impressions don't. What gives?


----------



## voicemaster

logiatype said:


> For anyone who cares about this, codec support for the GBL is identical to the GB+ @FYLegend
> 
> 
> 
> ...


You probably jammed it too deep. Before, I also pushed it down thinking it will make better sound and seal just like regular iem. If I pushed it down, the bass become bloated and high treble is pretty much non existence (makes the sound become dull) while the seal is not getting better (its an open earbuds duh). Then I experimented just putting the beans regularly without extra push down, just let it sit secure. The sound changed so much, bass is not bloated and the highs become more airy. Then again, open iem like airpods is tricky. I can't use airpods, well I can for like 5 min and it will move and break the seal and the bass become non existence.


----------



## logiatype

voicemaster said:


> You probably jammed it too deep. Before, I also pushed it down thinking it will make better sound and seal just like regular iem. If I pushed it down, the bass become bloated and high treble is pretty much non existence (makes the sound become dull) while the seal is not getting better (its an open earbuds duh). Then I experimented just putting the beans regularly without extra push down, just let it sit secure. The sound changed so much, bass is not bloated and the highs become more airy. Then again, open iem like airpods is tricky. I can't use airpods, well I can for like 5 min and it will move and break the seal and the bass become non existence.



I didn't find them boomy or too bass heavy. Just that the mid-bass dominates the sub-bass. The actual bass quantity was just fine.


----------



## voicemaster

logiatype said:


> I didn't find them boomy or too bass heavy. Just that the mid-bass dominates the sub-bass. The actual bass quantity was just fine.


Yes I can see what you mean. In my listening, I can hear the bass guitar is more pronounced than normal. Using the "clear" eq helps reducing the mid bass emphasize. If you want to be more precise, just tone down the 150hz-200hz about -2dB. I also understand why samsung boost the mid bass because its an open design. When you are walking or outside, the bass usually become washed out by the outside noise. Try listening to closed iem on the train and you can hear the bass got sucked out by the surrounding noise.


----------



## voicemaster

Shadowclash10 said:


> I would consider the Buds Live, but I always have a problem with non-in ears, earbud styles. Never get a good fit and they always hurt. So nah.
> 
> BTW, what advantage do the Buds Live have over the Sony WF-100XM3s? When the WFs get discounted, they drop to around the same price. Similar battery life. The Buds Live does have IPX2 (but that is barely anything) and a smaller charging case, but then the WFs do have a longer case battery life, so... I think that ANC and soundon the WFs are superior? Are they similar enough that it is more of a style choice (ie, do you want in-ears or non in-ears)?
> 
> So most people here seem to like the Buds Live's ANC, but most review websites first impressions don't. What gives?


I think xm3 and gbeans are apple and orange. Very different type of iem imho.


----------



## Caipirina

Ultrainferno said:


> In today's review we check out the 1MORE True Wireless ANC IEM
> https://www.headfonia.com/1more-true-wireless-anc-iem-review/


I don't want to be nitpicky, but ...


----------



## Caipirina (Aug 10, 2020)

Shadowclash10 said:


> I think you know how bad those will be  . Chi-fi is fine, as long as you are buying from a known good chi-fi brand (Tranya, Fiil, etc. ) But when you buy cheap versions of ultra-popular buds (Airpods come to mind), those are always trash. But hey, always possible that these blow your mind
> 
> My predictions:
> 
> ...


Actually ... 

I had airpod clones that sounded better than the real thing.
I totally get the battery concern
Very much prefer actual button controls over touch pads

I think by now even most cheap chi-fi buds can hold a connection ok, i don't care about mics, nor the instruction language .. so, I might be ok .. I am not expecting sonic bliss 

Or you are right and they stop working altogether after 20 minutes ... and they are not even heavy enough to make good paperweights


----------



## Caipirina

double click


----------



## Shadowclash10

logiatype said:


> For anyone who cares about this, codec support for the GBL is identical to the GB+ @FYLegend
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Honestly, without actually having tried them out (so based off everyone elses' reviews and impressions), I have to agree. I hate open style buds in the first place (SQ almost always sucks, they hurt my ear, too loose, etc.), ANC apparently isn't really effective, battery and mic are worse than Buds Plus, slightly slower quick charging time (okay fine, 2 minutes does not matter at all  but still). Apparently they do sound better than Buds Plus (which admittedly, aren't the best SQ wise - though they are respectable). And I can't imagine you getting enough passive isolation with this style. MSRP Buds Plus win, esp when they go on deal.


----------



## erockg

Shadowclash10 said:


> Honestly, without actually having tried them out (so based off everyone elses' reviews and impressions), I have to agree. I hate open style buds in the first place (SQ almost always sucks, they hurt my ear, too loose, etc.), ANC apparently isn't really effective, battery and mic are worse than Buds Plus, slightly slower quick charging time (okay fine, 2 minutes does not matter at all  but still). Apparently they do sound better than Buds Plus (which admittedly, aren't the best SQ wise - though they are respectable). And I can't imagine you getting enough passive isolation with this style. MSRP Buds Plus win, esp when they go on deal.


I'm def not a fan of open ear buds but I have to admit the GBL's do sound really good.  Better than the GB+ did IMO.  But I'm suffering from a bad bluetooth connection (could be an iOS 14 beta issue), but folks are saying I sound bad on calls and then if I play music too loud, I'm leaking a lot of sound.  Sooooo...  Mine are packed up and on the verge of being returned.


----------



## clerkpalmer (Aug 10, 2020)

Got my Galaxy Beans (Live) today.  These things are really cool.  I absolutely LOVE the fit.  Popped them right in and they don't move a mm in my ears.  I actually get a pretty decent "seal" of sorts.  Regarding the ANC, I sit and work in my basement next to the furnace which runs my AC all day.  The ANC immediately cut the AC whirr down significantly.  I wasn't expecting much but it was better than expected.  I haven't tried them extensively on something like a bike ride to see how the leak affects it.  Sound quality is pretty good.  Not as good as the N400 - missing some clarity and sounds a little muddy in comparison but better sounding to me than the APP for music.  Compared to the N400 which are a little fussy to fit, these are a dream.  I think they are keepers ...

Question - mine default to Samsung's Scaleable Codec but can be forced to AAC.  The Scaleable Codec sounds better to me ... Is that expected?


----------



## erockg

clerkpalmer said:


> Got my Galaxy Beans (Live) today.  These things are really cool.  I absolutely LOVE the fit.  Popped them right in and they don't move a mm in my ears.  I actually get a pretty decent "seal" of sorts.  Regarding the ANC, I sit and work in my basement next to the furnace which runs my AC all day.  The ANC immediately cut the AC whirr down significantly.  I wasn't expecting much but it was better than expected.  I haven't tried them extensively on something like a bike ride to see how the leak affects it.  Sound quality is pretty good.  Not as good as the N400 - missing some clarity and sounds a little muddy in comparison but better sounding to me than the APP for music.  Compared to the N400 which are a little fussy to fit, these are a dream.  I think they are keepers ...
> 
> Question - mine default to Samsung's Scaleable Codec but can be forced to AAC.  The Scaleable Codec sounds better to me ... Is that expected?


Are you on an iPhone?  No BT cutouts or bad mic issues on calls?  Curious...


----------



## assassin10000

clerkpalmer said:


> Question - mine default to Samsung's Scaleable Codec but can be forced to AAC.  The Scaleable Codec sounds better to me ... Is that expected?



If you're on samsungs codec, that means you're using a samsung device, so not a big suprise (to me). 

Samsung probably did a better job with the implementation of their codec with their devices, like how apple did with AAC to work better with theirs.


----------



## TK33 (Aug 10, 2020)

Got the Galaxy Buds Live today and these are a keeper for me. Took me a bit to figure out how to put them in but they sounded much more bass heavy than I expected them to be.  They are very light and surprisingly comfortable.  I was not expecting great SQ but was pleasantly surprised. I agree these have a lot of bass (although not as clean sounding as the MW07Go or MTW). I have not had time to play with the EQ at all and will try the clear setting later.  I just got off a call after using them for an hour and the guy on the other end confirmed it sounded fine (he was complaining about my Shure BT2 earlier this morning).  I was only using one earbud so only half the mics were in use. I paired it to my Galaxy S9 instead of my V60 so I can take advantage of the scalable codec (and the S9 is the phone number moat people have anyway).

As for fit, it is weird not having tips and I can see some people having issues with fit if they have smaller ears but I found it comfortable. Will have to see how I feel after extended use.

Attaching a photo of my newest toy next to the Qudelix 5K, MW07Go and original MTWs.  These things are pfetty small.


----------



## clerkpalmer

BTW I was able to apply an education discount on mine and got them for 152. For 152 I am very satisfied. These will replace my APP as my everyday jack of all trades TWS.


----------



## logiatype (Aug 10, 2020)

Shadowclash10 said:


> Honestly, without actually having tried them out (so based off everyone elses' reviews and impressions), I have to agree. I hate open style buds in the first place (SQ almost always sucks, they hurt my ear, too loose, etc.), ANC apparently isn't really effective, battery and mic are worse than Buds Plus, slightly slower quick charging time (okay fine, 2 minutes does not matter at all  but still). Apparently they do sound better than Buds Plus (which admittedly, aren't the best SQ wise - though they are respectable). And I can't imagine you getting enough passive isolation with this style. MSRP Buds Plus win, esp when they go on deal.


Honestly, I'd take the GB+ at the same price. I think the most damning realization was "these are just boring".


erockg said:


> I'm def not a fan of open ear buds but I have to admit the GBL's do sound really good.  Better than the GB+ did IMO.  But I'm suffering from a bad bluetooth connection (could be an iOS 14 beta issue), but folks are saying I sound bad on calls and then if I play music too loud, I'm leaking a lot of sound.  Sooooo...  Mine are packed up and on the verge of being returned.


I can cosign this. Bluetooth connection is pretty bad even after the update. Just moving my arms around my head is enough to cut off the connection. Mic quality, I'm willing to let slide; I haven't had a bud-format TWS with a good mic so...


----------



## jayc29u

Question for anyone who has tried or owns Edifier X3's? Do they have a really crap fit and never stay in your ears? I just bought some as a tester and they just keep falling out!


----------



## voicemaster

clerkpalmer said:


> Got my Galaxy Beans (Live) today.  These things are really cool.  I absolutely LOVE the fit.  Popped them right in and they don't move a mm in my ears.  I actually get a pretty decent "seal" of sorts.  Regarding the ANC, I sit and work in my basement next to the furnace which runs my AC all day.  The ANC immediately cut the AC whirr down significantly.  I wasn't expecting much but it was better than expected.  I haven't tried them extensively on something like a bike ride to see how the leak affects it.  Sound quality is pretty good.  Not as good as the N400 - missing some clarity and sounds a little muddy in comparison but better sounding to me than the APP for music.  Compared to the N400 which are a little fussy to fit, these are a dream.  I think they are keepers ...
> 
> Question - mine default to Samsung's Scaleable Codec but can be forced to AAC.  The Scaleable Codec sounds better to me ... Is that expected?


The sound is just different than the previous galaxy buds. The mid is thicker (pretty similar to N6P mid sound imho) and the bass is more pronounced, the high is not piercing tho I have never had that problem with my Gbuds and Gbuds+. 
The scaleable codec is better than the AAC, but if your phone doesn't support scalable codec, AAC is the next best thing imho.


----------



## clerkpalmer

voicemaster said:


> The sound is just different than the previous galaxy buds. The mid is thicker (pretty similar to N6P mid sound imho) and the bass is more pronounced, the high is not piercing tho I have never had that problem with my Gbuds and Gbuds+.
> The scaleable codec is better than the AAC, but if your phone doesn't support scalable codec, AAC is the next best thing imho.



I haven't read up on the scaleable codec so I was pleasantly surprised ...


----------



## voicemaster

logiatype said:


> Honestly, I'd take the GB+ at the same price. I think the most damning realization was "these are just boring".
> 
> I can cosign this. *Bluetooth connection is pretty bad even after the update*. *Just moving my arms around my head is enough to cut off the connection. Mic quality, I'm willing to let slide; I haven't had a bud-format TWS with a good mic so...*


Do they got a bad batch or something, mine doesn't even cut out when I purposely cupping my ear with them on. Mic quality is good for me because I called my wife everyday using Whatsapp and I did normal talk on my bedroom, whisper while sleeping on bed, talk inside walk-in refrigerator, talk with water faucet fully blasted on commercial kitchen and she still able to hear me. Btw, do you turn on the "relieve pressure with ambient sound" in the labs? That thing works just like ambiance mode and will compress the noise when it is too loud just like the other Gbuds do when turning on ambiance mode. Tho the ambiance mode is similar to the lowest setting on the other Gbuds.


----------



## voicemaster

TK33 said:


> Got the Galaxy Buds Live today and these are a keeper for me. Took me a bit to figure out how to put them in but they sounded much more bass heavy than I expected them to be.  They are very light and surprisingly comfortable.  I was not expecting great SQ but was pleasantly surprised. I agree these have a lot of bass (although not as clean sounding as the MW07Go or MTW). I have not had time to play with the EQ at all and will try the clear setting later.  I just got off a call after using them for an hour and the guy on the other end confirmed it sounded fine (he was complaining about my Shure BT2 earlier this morning).  I was only using one earbud so only half the mics were in use. I paired it to my Galaxy S9 instead of my V60 so I can take advantage of the scalable codec (and the S9 is the phone number moat people have anyway).
> 
> As for fit, it is weird not having tips and I can see some people having issues with fit if they have smaller ears but I found it comfortable. Will have to see how I feel after extended use.
> 
> Attaching a photo of my newest toy next to the Qudelix 5K, MW07Go and original MTWs.  These things are pfetty small.


The bass will tighten overtime (or your ear just got used to it lol), tho it has the tendency to bring bass guitar sound more pronounced. Either way, I can definitely hear the difference when I first got it and 2 days later. Initially, I was using the "clear" EQ, now I am using the "normal" EQ. Dynamic is a bit too much bass to my liking.


----------



## voicemaster

erockg said:


> Are you on an iPhone?  No BT cutouts or bad mic issues on calls?  Curious...


He is definitely on Samsung phone because to be able to use scalable codec, you need samsung phone. No other android phones has that codec.


----------



## erockg

voicemaster said:


> He is definitely on Samsung phone because to be able to use scalable codec, you need samsung phone. No other android phones has that codec.


Did some online research and figured that out.  I'm downgrading from iOS 14 beta to iOS 13 now to see if that solves the issue.


----------



## donedj

Just stating 
sennheiser momentum true wireless 2, is the best sound quality bar none and nothing comes close to them in this space. Simply spectacular. A true joy to listen to music totally wirelessly.


----------



## Shadowclash10

logiatype said:


> For anyone who cares about this, codec support for the GBL is identical to the GB+ @FYLegend
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Honestly, without actually having tried them out (so based off everyone elses' reviews and impressions), I have to agree. I hate open style buds in the first place (SQ almost always sucks, they hurt my ear, too loose, etc.), ANC apparently isn't really effective, so why would I get these over the Buds +, which have better battery life, faster quick charge by 2 mins (though 2 mins doesn't matter one bit  ) better mic quality, actually has passive isolation, and has apparently a very good Ambient mode? And it doesn't hurt that the Buds + are waay cheaper - about $20-70 cheaper.


----------



## Shadowclash10

clerkpalmer said:


> Got my Galaxy Beans (Live) today.  These things are really cool.  I absolutely LOVE the fit.  Popped them right in and they don't move a mm in my ears.  I actually get a pretty decent "seal" of sorts.  Regarding the ANC, I sit and work in my basement next to the furnace which runs my AC all day.  The ANC immediately cut the AC whirr down significantly.  I wasn't expecting much but it was better than expected.  I haven't tried them extensively on something like a bike ride to see how the leak affects it.  Sound quality is pretty good.  Not as good as the N400 - missing some clarity and sounds a little muddy in comparison but better sounding to me than the APP for music.  Compared to the N400 which are a little fussy to fit, these are a dream.  I think they are keepers ...
> 
> Question - mine default to Samsung's Scaleable Codec but can be forced to AAC.  The Scaleable Codec sounds better to me ... Is that expected?


Yeah, it is. With their own codec, Samsung was able to custom design it for their devices. I remember reading Buds + reviews that said the same thing - Scalable Codec sounds better than AAC. Sad that they don;t have other codecs, though.


----------



## DigDub

MadMike said:


> Look forward to your impressions! I like them quite a bit, though I am limited to just these and the XM3 as far as TWS are concerned.


My impression is pretty much the same as yours. Very well balanced sound with excellent resolution. It doesn't resort to a very bright sound signature to create the illusion of treble details or an overly bassy sound to give weight to the sound. The noise cancellation is probably one of the best out of the tws buds I have (Sony xm3, airpods pro and ath 300tw). And I love the fact that all controls are available through the buds including volume control. My only complaint is probably the large surface area of the touchpad which results in accidental touches when trying to adjust the buds in the ear.


----------



## clerkpalmer

donedj said:


> Just stating
> sennheiser momentum true wireless 2, is the best sound quality bar none and nothing comes close to them in this space. Simply spectacular. A true joy to listen to music totally wirelessly.


The AKG N400 says bring it on!


----------



## TK33 (Aug 10, 2020)

voicemaster said:


> The bass will tighten overtime (or your ear just got used to it lol), tho it has the tendency to bring bass guitar sound more pronounced. Either way, I can definitely hear the difference when I first got it and 2 days later. Initially, I was using the "clear" EQ, now I am using the "normal" EQ. Dynamic is a bit too much bass to my liking.



These Gbuds Live are definitely basier/warmer than I am used to.  I found Adapt Sound helps and I am now listening on the Treble Boost setting. Normal to Dynamic just sounded a bit muffled and warm for my taste.  Clear was OK. I definitely prefer my MTWs (EQ'd) and MW07 Go for SQ and sound signature (think it is more my personal preference since I spent most of the last decade using mostly BAs until I started getting into true wireless). I am definitely enjoying the Galaxy Buds Live more as I use them.

I think these will be my daily TWS for calls  (which was the primary reason I got these) and is good enough for music when I want to travel light and will probably always be in my pocket when I am out for convenience. I think my MW07Go and MTWs will still get plenty of use for music though.

Two more observations:

1) these isolate surprisingly well for an open design and get pretty loud. I am using them at 25% volume with ANC off and I can barely hear my 2 year old who is refusing to sleep 3 feet away from me.

2) I love that I can lie down with them and they don't push into my ear canal. They fit very well and are comfortable but they don't disappear in my ears. I don't think they will fall out as I almost feel like I have to dig them out of my ears (and seem to activate ANC every time while doing so).

So far $160 well spent for me (I had a $10 coupon I "had" to use). It seems to be very practical and is clearly intended to compete against the APP in a more  mainstream market but it has its place in my small collection and has so far exceeded my expectations.


----------



## erockg

clerkpalmer said:


> The AKG N400 says bring it on!


Agreed.  Those AKG's do sound better than the Sennies IMO.  The way the bass hits along is pretty awesome.


----------



## TK33

erockg said:


> Agreed.  Those AKG's do sound better than the Sennies IMO.  The way the bass hits along is pretty awesome.


I really need to get myself one of those next.


----------



## clerkpalmer

Used the Live for a rowing workout tonight. Two fans and my concept 2.  It was a strange experience. The buds killed the fans really well. But I could hear the rower.  In comparison,  the N400 definitely isolates better. I still enjoyed using them. I think they would be ideal for cycling. 

I love that samsung has the willingness try new things. The design is ridiculous but they pulled it off. This is also why I am getting a Fold 2.


----------



## PixelSquish

I have the Senn MTW2's and absolutely love them but I'd never wear them or any IEM's while riding a bike as one needs to be audio aware of your surroundings. Would the Galaxy Buds Live with ANC Off let in enough ambient sound that one could ride a bike safely in a city with the volume not too high?


----------



## Spidermanxd

PixelSquish said:


> I have the Senn MTW2's and absolutely love them but I'd never wear them or any IEM's while riding a bike as one needs to be audio aware of your surroundings. Would the Galaxy Buds Live with ANC Off let in enough ambient sound that one could ride a bike safely in a city with the volume not too high?


Even with anc on, you still can hear your surroundings due to anc on the live is very weak


----------



## Shadowclash10

PixelSquish said:


> I have the Senn MTW2's and absolutely love them but I'd never wear them or any IEM's while riding a bike as one needs to be audio aware of your surroundings. Would the Galaxy Buds Live with ANC Off let in enough ambient sound that one could ride a bike safely in a city with the volume not too high?


IMO if your big focus is ambient, to the best of my knowledge, the Buds + win there hands-down. From what I've heard, thanks to the open design of the Buds Live, isolation is very poor (however, the Buds + are likely to be better at ambient still).  However, that also means that ANC is also not very good. I'd guess that ANC might put it on par with in-ear earbuds. So don't buy for the ANC.


----------



## TK33

Shadowclash10 said:


> IMO if your big focus is ambient, to the best of my knowledge, the Buds + win there hands-down. From what I've heard, thanks to the open design of the Buds Live, isolation is very poor (however, the Buds + are likely to be better at ambient still).  However, that also means that ANC is also not very good. I'd guess that ANC might put it on par with in-ear earbuds. So don't buy for the ANC.



Has anyone tried the Buds+ ambient mode for biking? My issue with ambient mode for biking has generally been the wind noise (note, i dont have the Gbuds+ so I am asking out of curiosity). My MTWs create a really good seal so I would never consider riding my road bike wearing them anyway.  The Galaxy Buds Live, in addition to having more of an open design, also works with just one ear (either left or right) so that could be another option (i.e. keep one ear open).  It also has a very weak ambient mode that can be toggled in the app.  I will need to try it out one of these days.


----------



## bronco1015

rulerofrecords said:


> If you really wanna do this (which I do not think is all that serious after all) - but hey, if you want to part with them and you do live in Europe (me thinks UT is one of those 50 states) then just lemme know ...


yep in the states. You asking about the OG MTW? i couldn't part with them. I still am amazed at the sound i was able to eq with them in the app with that stupid dot eq. But you definitely should pick up a pair if you can. though the MTW2 is a better buy unless you get the 1st gen for really cheap like 100-120 euros.


----------



## Shadowclash10

TK33 said:


> Has anyone tried the Buds+ ambient mode for biking? My issue with ambient mode for biking has generally been the wind noise (note, i dont have the Gbuds+ so I am asking out of curiosity). My MTWs create a really good seal so I would never consider riding my road bike wearing them anyway.  The Galaxy Buds Live, in addition to having more of an open design, also works with just one ear (either left or right) so that could be another option (i.e. keep one ear open).  It also has a very weak ambient mode that can be toggled in the app.  I will need to try it out one of these days.


Oh, it does? I didn't see mention of ambient modes from review sites - silly reviewers . I suppose you could just wear one in one ear, but I personally can't stand mono mode. I have no idea how people listen to anything like that . But hey, if you can stand mono, why not. 

I can't speak to it personally, but searching shows that: the Buds + absolutely could NOT be used with ambient and biking, prior to newer firmware. Newer firmware helps greatly - you still have to set Ambient levels to <=50%, with that, some people were fine, others weren't.


----------



## Shadowclash10

You know, I was thinking, if someone wanted TWS with the absolute best noise cancellation/isolation, is one potential option budget CIEMs (custom-fitted IEMs) (around $150-200) paired with earhook Bluetooth adapters? I don't have CIEMs (personally would rather spend that much on headphones, esp cause I can't lose headphones and I can lose IEMs. ymmv), but I remember people saying that oftentimes, they isolate better than ANC buds, so... Especially once we see the next wave of Bluetooth IEM adapters hit, like the TRN BT20S Pro, that have charging cases, should have less hiss, etc.

TL;DR: Can we recommend budget CIEMs with BT earhook adapters (esp once next-gen adapters hit) as an alternative to ANC TWS, if the primary goal is isolation?


----------



## FYLegend

logiatype said:


> For anyone who cares about this, codec support for the GBL is identical to the GB+ @FYLegend
> 
> 
> 
> ...


ugh, thanks for this info. I was just on this reddit post where someone claimed their Win10 machine supports AAC based on Bluetooth Tweaker, but based on what you posted it's just listing all possible codecs the device uses...


----------



## stephenlee2801

donedj said:


> Just stating
> sennheiser momentum true wireless 2, is the best sound quality bar none and nothing comes close to them in this space. Simply spectacular. A true joy to listen to music totally wirelessly.


How do you feel about the usability of the Senn MW2? I think most people consider them to be the standard when it comes to sound quality but I've read that the usability of the MW2s leaves alot to be desired.


----------



## regancipher

FYLegend said:


> ugh, thanks for this info. I was just on this reddit post where someone claimed their Win10 machine supports AAC based on Bluetooth Tweaker, but based on what you posted it's just listing all possible codecs the device uses...


It lists at the bottom the codec windows selects. By changing the profile from headset to headphones, then reconnecting, I have found some headsets select AAC. Well, they claim they do!


----------



## DigDub (Aug 11, 2020)

The Panasonic rz-s500w case can take any tips I throw on the buds without affecting the charging or closing of the case lid. Perfect for tip experimenting.


----------



## hmscott (Aug 11, 2020)

stephenlee2801 said:


> How do you feel about the usability of the Senn MW2? I think most people consider them to be the standard when it comes to sound quality but I've read that the usability of the MW2s leaves alot to be desired.


I returned my MTW2's close to the 30 day return limit because they just weren't special enough for $300+, and noise canceling didn't work - or at least was minimal.

Since then the MTW2 has had a firmware update that fixes the ANC problems, but I didn't think the sound was good enough for that much money, especially when the less expensive TWS's from China have so much to offer.

The Tranya T10 is the best I've bought so far, and there are several other new releases that show promise, like the Tronsmart Apollo Bold with ANC:
https://www.tronsmart.com/products/tronsmart-apollo-bold-truewireless-stereo-plus-hybrid-anc-earbuds

Like so many others, I've yet to find the perfect TWS, and I'd rather try finding a $100 or less costly TWS than $300 TWS's.   Besides I usually buy 2 if I like something to make sure I have a back up, and doubling $300 per TWS is just too much.

I hoping one or more of the IEM makers can translate their great sounding IEM's into great sounding BT TWS's - KZ for example, I just wish someone that knew what they were doing with BT would hire on there...


----------



## FYLegend

ssouthall6 said:


> It lists at the bottom the codec windows selects. By changing the profile from headset to headphones, then reconnecting, I have found some headsets select AAC. Well, they claim they do!


hmm, interesting. I'm guessing depending on your BT stack there might be AAC support, but the default codec might not be AAC. There was also some talk about how AAC on OnePlus devices is locked to 160kbps...

Do you notice a difference in quality when it shows AAC? On most of the devices I have I don't hear a huge difference between AAC and SBC on my Note 9, sometimes a bit warmer/boomy on SBC. The difference is most apparent with frequency sweeps on Audiocheck.net, where SBC has this echoing effect before/after you play the files.


----------



## Caipirina

jayc29u said:


> Question for anyone who has tried or owns Edifier X3's? Do they have a really crap fit and never stay in your ears? I just bought some as a tester and they just keep falling out!


I have fuzzy ears / often fit issues, but not with those. They fit well and stay put!!


----------



## Caipirina

Preordered the Gbeans at friggin’ 184€ (which is ~220$ but includes tax, still crazy more IMHO) and now amazon says since it is rls date 21st I shall get them on 24th ... grrrrr


----------



## logiatype

ssouthall6 said:


> It lists at the bottom the codec windows selects. By changing the profile from headset to headphones, then reconnecting, I have found some headsets select AAC. Well, they claim they do!


Can you explain these? Change the profile where?


----------



## go0gle

Are next gen chipsets/codec shipping yet? I don’t remember Qualcomm’s roadmap for those


----------



## TK33

Shadowclash10 said:


> Oh, it does? I didn't see mention of ambient modes from review sites - silly reviewers . I suppose you could just wear one in one ear, but I personally can't stand mono mode. I have no idea how people listen to anything like that . But hey, if you can stand mono, why not.
> 
> I can't speak to it personally, but searching shows that: the Buds + absolutely could NOT be used with ambient and biking, prior to newer firmware. Newer firmware helps greatly - you still have to set Ambient levels to <=50%, with that, some people were fine, others weren't.



@voicemaster mentioned it a few pages back.  It is called "Relieve pfessure with ambient sound" and is in the "Labs" menu of the Wearables app.  It is very weak but something. I got a firmware update as soon as I paired the Galaxy Buds Live for. the first time yeaterday so perhaps it was part of the firmware update (which is why many reviews seem to mention Gaming Mode but not this feature).

Speaking of firmware updates, I was impressed at how smooth the process went.


----------



## logiatype

Commuting with face masks really puts TWS from the "like to have category" into the "must have category".

After going through a few models, got my eye on the N10P, N400, and Technic TWS. Any idea if the N10 P are still on for September?
Don't really care for ANC but EQ is a must (which the N6P don't have).


----------



## TK33

logiatype said:


> Commuting with face masks really puts TWS from the "like to have category" into the "must have category".



I am starting to feel that way as well, eapecially if you wear glasses.  There is only so much you can behind your ears.


----------



## TK33

clerkpalmer said:


> I think they would be ideal for cycling.



I think so too. I was just out on my patio with the Galaxy Buds Live and I could hear my air conditioner, cars driving by, and the guy mowing the lawn across the street with my music on at a low volume.


----------



## donedj

stephenlee2801 said:


> How do you feel about the usability of the Senn MW2? I think most people consider them to be the standard when it comes to sound quality but I've read that the usability of the MW2s leaves alot to be desired.



It is awesome.
Sound quality is spectacular. It is a high end Sennheiser sound for sure.
ANC works excellent, not Bose or Sony closed back kinda excellent, but definitely much better than Airpods Pro.
Fit and comfort are awesome as well. It is not worth testing a bunch of Chinese no-name brands to see a great sound etc, and dealing with returns, purchases...
Sennheiser definitely fixed the issues they had with the 1st generation.1st gen was great in sound as well, but rest was bad, connection issues, battery issues etc. MTW2 definitely is my go to headphones right now.


----------



## jant71

Sabbat Vooplay... https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4001286685971.html?spm=2114.12010611.8148356.10.5bed5de0ytL7hZ
Big 14.2 bio-fiber driver, aptX/AAC, USB-C, 6/40 hours total volume control, and plenty of colors to choose from. Obviously not to be bought at the opening see if we can get it Ali price as it should drop soon but kinda interesting for those not needing ANC etc. the like and just for listening especially is the streamline design is useful to you.


----------



## Uncle00Jesse

Would I be a lunatic for purchasing the galaxy buds live for use on an iPhone only?


----------



## logiatype

Uncle00Jesse said:


> Would I be a lunatic for purchasing the galaxy buds live for use on an iPhone only?


If you have an iPhone 7 or above, you're good.


----------



## phaeton70

So, have been reading quite a lot of pages here, but still have some doubts.... What's the general consensus about the best TWS with ANC, and with a good audio quality, excluding the Sony? I'll be using a Samsung S9+ and would like to have aptX or the Samsung Scalable Codec. 
I've read the Panasonic are "stellar" in terms of ANC, anyone can confirm?


----------



## MadMike

phaeton70 said:


> So, have been reading quite a lot of pages here, but still have some doubts.... What's the general consensus about the best TWS with ANC, and with a good audio quality, excluding the Sony? I'll be using a Samsung S9+ and would like to have aptX or the Samsung Scalable Codec.
> I've read the Panasonic are "stellar" in terms of ANC, anyone can confirm?


I have the Panasonic's and they have terrific ANC and sound very good. I prefer their sound over the Sony XM3- better balance but still good bass response. In fact, they hold their own with my B&W P7 wireless- just not quite as full sounding and can't get nearly as loud. The Technics are likely similar with slightly better sound, though I have not heard them. However, the Panasonic/Technics TWS's do not have aptX- AAC and SBC only.


----------



## MadMike

DigDub said:


> My impression is pretty much the same as yours. Very well balanced sound with excellent resolution. It doesn't resort to a very bright sound signature to create the illusion of treble details or an overly bassy sound to give weight to the sound. The noise cancellation is probably one of the best out of the tws buds I have (Sony xm3, airpods pro and ath 300tw). And I love the fact that all controls are available through the buds including volume control. My only complaint is probably the large surface area of the touchpad which results in accidental touches when trying to adjust the buds in the ear.


Thanks! Great all-around TWS! I compared them to my B&W P7 wireless and while not quite as full sounding they do hold their own. Definitely keepers!


----------



## Caipirina

Uncle00Jesse said:


> Would I be a lunatic for purchasing the galaxy buds live for use on an iPhone only?



That's what I did ... so ... probably YES


----------



## Caipirina

jant71 said:


> Sabbat Vooplay... https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4001286685971.html?spm=2114.12010611.8148356.10.5bed5de0ytL7hZ
> Big 14.2 bio-fiber driver, aptX/AAC, USB-C, 6/40 hours total volume control, and plenty of colors to choose from. Obviously not to be bought at the opening see if we can get it Ali price as it should drop soon but kinda interesting for those not needing ANC etc. the like and just for listening especially is the streamline design is useful to you.



Nice, another semi open from Sabbat ... but yeah, let's wait for the price to come down a bit..


----------



## Caipirina

Can anyone with the GBL / Beans shed some light on the pair of 'eartips' they come with (as I spotted in one YT video).
 I guess they fit on the charging ports nubsies and make for a better fit? Pictures please?


----------



## webvan

webvan said:


> I haven't checked the codec being used but I can't imagine it would make a difference, when ANC is turned on there is a massive bass boost that makes them pretty much unusable, I'm pretty sure others had commented on that too. Maybe there are different hardware/firmware versions...



So I checked my pair of Apollo Bold with another Android phone with both SBC and AptxHD and I can confirm the sound degradation is spectacular when ANC is turned ON, the high-end is completely muffled and the bass is boosted. TBH it's unusable for proper musical enjoyment ! I suppose I could try with my iPad but I can't see how the device could have an impact on the way ANC works on the Bold.


----------



## phaeton70

MadMike said:


> However, the Panasonic/Technics TWS's do not have aptX- AAC and SBC only.



umh, that's really a pity.... 
tnks for your feedback


----------



## jant71 (Aug 11, 2020)

Caipirina said:


> Nice, another semi open from Sabbat ... but yeah, let's wait for the price to come down a bit..



Video... 

Qi charge capable it seems as well. Bigger stage and same sound quality with no run in isn't bad. The leather style case covering may be good and bad. Cool look and good to hold and grip but like he said it will get beat up before long. But if they are $50 or even less not a deal breaker.


----------



## phaeton70 (Aug 11, 2020)

webvan said:


> So I checked my pair of Apollo Bold with another Android phone with both SBC and AptxHD and I can confirm the sound degradation is spectacular when ANC is turned ON, the high-end is completely muffled and the bass is boosted. TBH it's unusable for proper musical enjoyment ! I suppose I could try with my iPad but I can't see how the device could have an impact on the way ANC works on the Bold.



that's really unfortunate, maybe it's something related to a firmware version or a different hw release, could be the case to ask Tronsmart for support?.
can confirm that mine sound absolutely the same with ANC on or off.

you can connect your Apollo with aptx-HD?

maybe there are two different hw relase, these are a couple of pics of my Apollo, maybe can be useful to understand if yours differ in any way


----------



## VICosPhi

Shadowclash10 said:


> I know! Amazon deals last way longer than Woot. And if Amazon EU got Buds Plus for close to $100, Amazon US should too. So not sure why Woot had a deal for $100 Buds Plus...



Verizon has the Galaxy Buds+ for $99. You have to add to cart to see the discounted price
https://www.verizon.com/products/samsung-galaxy-buds-plus-wireless-earbuds/


----------



## DB10

Hi!
Finally I will keep my Sony XM3. Based on your experience, which are the best tips for isolation and comfort?. I prefer foam over silicon, but I am looking forward to hearing your experience with Comply, SpinFit...and the best model that fits the charging case, thanks!


----------



## clerkpalmer

Caipirina said:


> Can anyone with the GBL / Beans shed some light on the pair of 'eartips' they come with (as I spotted in one YT video).
> I guess they fit on the charging ports nubsies and make for a better fit? Pictures please?



I think it's just a replacement set for the existing ones.


----------



## Caipirina

clerkpalmer said:


> I think it's just a replacement set for the existing ones.


Where do they have existing ones? I am looking for detail pics, this is maybe the best I find and this does not really look like it ...


----------



## regancipher

donedj said:


> It is awesome.
> Sound quality is spectacular. It is a high end Sennheiser sound for sure.
> ANC works excellent, not Bose or Sony closed back kinda excellent, but definitely much better than Airpods Pro.
> Fit and comfort are awesome as well. It is not worth testing a bunch of Chinese no-name brands to see a great sound etc, and dealing with returns, purchases...
> Sennheiser definitely fixed the issues they had with the 1st generation.1st gen was great in sound as well, but rest was bad, connection issues, battery issues etc. MTW2 definitely is my go to headphones right now.


 
Party pooper


----------



## assassin10000

Caipirina said:


> Where do they have existing ones? I am looking for detail pics, this is maybe the best I find and this does not really look like it ...



Goes around the charging points. 2 different sizes.


----------



## clerkpalmer

assassin10000 said:


> Goes around the charging points. 2 different sizes.


Huh. Go figure. I stand corrected.


----------



## regancipher

webvan said:


> So I checked my pair of Apollo Bold with another Android phone with both SBC and AptxHD and I can confirm the sound degradation is spectacular when ANC is turned ON, the high-end is completely muffled and the bass is boosted. TBH it's unusable for proper musical enjoyment ! I suppose I could try with my iPad but I can't see how the device could have an impact on the way ANC works on the Bold.


How bizarre. I just tried SBC on the worst device I could find, a Huawei Mediapad T3. It sounded perfectly fine, no obtrusive bass. I'm starting to think yours might be faulty mate


----------



## Peddler

Shadowclash10 said:


> You know, I was thinking, if someone wanted TWS with the absolute best noise cancellation/isolation, is one potential option budget CIEMs (custom-fitted IEMs) (around $150-200) paired with earhook Bluetooth adapters? I don't have CIEMs (personally would rather spend that much on headphones, esp cause I can't lose headphones and I can lose IEMs. ymmv), but I remember people saying that oftentimes, they isolate better than ANC buds, so... Especially once we see the next wave of Bluetooth IEM adapters hit, like the TRN BT20S Pro, that have charging cases, should have less hiss, etc.
> 
> TL;DR: Can we recommend budget CIEMs with BT earhook adapters (esp once next-gen adapters hit) as an alternative to ANC TWS, if the primary goal is isolation?



You should try the new iBasso CF01 MMCX bluetooth adaptors - without any doubt, coupled to my hybrid IEM's, produces the best bluetooth sound I've heard yet.


----------



## clerkpalmer

Peddler said:


> You should try the new iBasso CF01 MMCX bluetooth adaptors - without any doubt, coupled to my hybrid IEM's, produces the best bluetooth sound I've heard yet.


Looks nice but id need to understand how the price is justified compared to a bt20s. Definitely a premium product. Ldac would be nice at that price.


----------



## TK33

clerkpalmer said:


> Huh. Go figure. I stand corrected.



Interesting...I also assumed they were just replacements for the ones that are already on the Buds Live...guess I will have to dig the box back up although I really like the fit as is.

Used these for 6 calls and some gardening on my patio today and I am liking them more and more.


----------



## PixelSquish

Peddler said:


> You should try the new iBasso CF01 MMCX bluetooth adaptors - without any doubt, coupled to my hybrid IEM's, produces the best bluetooth sound I've heard yet.



What's the battery life like on those per charge?


----------



## sponsor

Well, there was a promotion going on Apollo Bolds, and they ticked all my checkboxes of good battery life, ANC, Ambient mode, aptX/AAC, so I couldn't resist, 
The only thing remains to be seen is the sound and call quality.



Spoiler: Image


----------



## voicemaster

TK33 said:


> Interesting...I also assumed they were just replacements for the ones that are already on the Buds Live...guess I will have to dig the box back up although I really like the fit as is.
> 
> Used these for 6 calls and some gardening on my patio today and I am liking them more and more.


It is bigger size than the one installed on the buds.


----------



## howdy

Shadowclash10 said:


> You know, I was thinking, if someone wanted TWS with the absolute best noise cancellation/isolation, is one potential option budget CIEMs (custom-fitted IEMs) (around $150-200) paired with earhook Bluetooth adapters? I don't have CIEMs (personally would rather spend that much on headphones, esp cause I can't lose headphones and I can lose IEMs. ymmv), but I remember people saying that oftentimes, they isolate better than ANC buds, so... Especially once we see the next wave of Bluetooth IEM adapters hit, like the TRN BT20S Pro, that have charging cases, should have less hiss, etc.
> 
> TL;DR: Can we recommend budget CIEMs with BT earhook adapters (esp once next-gen adapters hit) as an alternative to ANC TWS, if the primary goal is isolation?




I wish there was more options for .078 2 pin connectors for CIEMs. I have a pair and have been waiting for years for a nice one to come out. I do like using my CIEMs with a DAP which is not that often when there are so many TWs to use.


----------



## VICosPhi

Amazon US is showing Tronsmart Apollo product page now, ETA Aug 20 for shipping
https://www.amazon.com/Tronsmart-Headphones-Cancelling-Waterproof-Microphones/dp/B08DD1LH5H/


----------



## TK33

voicemaster said:


> It is bigger size than the one installed on the buds.



Yes, i tried it after reading the last post and didn't do much for me so I switched it back.  I assumed it was a replacement set because I had watched an unboxing video a few days ago which incorrectly referred to it as such (and it fits me fine right out of the box so I never bothered with it).


----------



## Caipirina

TK33 said:


> Yes, i tried it after reading the last post and didn't do much for me so I switched it back.  I assumed it was a replacement set because I had watched an unboxing video a few days ago which incorrectly referred to it as such (and it fits me fine right out of the box so I never bothered with it).


We might have watched the same video? Joshua Vergara’s ? What else can one do until release date than watch videos and ask silly questions 

oh, right, go run with tws on already has


----------



## LoryWiv (Aug 12, 2020)

I'm interested in the Soundpeat Truengine but haven't seen much activity about them on this thread. It seems there are 3 models, Truengine SE, Truengine 2 SE and Truengine 2 SE. All are reasonably priced on Amazon, Bluetooth 5.0 w/AptX, and use dual dynamic drivers per each ear. Interestingly the drivers are beryllium-coated + composite for the earlier models and titanium + composite for the 3 SE. In general I think of beryllium as more high end for audio, very fast response, so surprising they 'downgraded" for the newest model.

Can anyone comment on the sound quality, fit and usability of these three, how they differ and and which is the best choice? Thanks!


----------



## Dcell7

new Shanling TWS


----------



## phaeton70

ssouthall6 said:


> How bizarre. I just tried SBC on the worst device I could find, a Huawei Mediapad T3. It sounded perfectly fine, no obtrusive bass. I'm starting to think yours might be faulty mate



+1 , that's why I suggested to contact Tronsmart.
or maybe a new fw, given he said he was able to connect with aptX-HD which is still not supported.


----------



## gibletzor

After a few days with the new Tranya T10s, I have to say I'm undecided.  I think I still prefer the B530s overall.  The sound quality is great with the right tips (ie Spinfit cp360).  They're definitely more bass-heavy than the  B530s, to the point where I have to EQ the bass down a little bit so it doesn't overwhelm vocals and guitars.  I listened to some Pentatonix tonight at work while filling out paperwork and they sounded fantastic!  Switched to some Foo Fighters and Three Days Grace, and they're still good, but not AS good.  They're also not as comfortable for long term wear as the B530s or Gbuds+, but not the worst I've experienced by far.  I'm going to keep them because they do have redeeming qualities and I want to find that perfect spot for them.


----------



## jant71 (Aug 12, 2020)

LoryWiv said:


> I'm interested in the Soundpeat Truengine but haven't seen much activity about them on this thread. It seems there are 3 models, Truengine SE, Truengine 2 SE and Truengine 2 SE. All are reasonably priced on Amazon, Bluetooth 5.0 w/AptX, and use dual dynamic drivers per each ear. Interestingly the drivers are beryllium-coated + composite for the earlier models and titanium + composite for the 3 SE. In general I think of beryllium as more high end for audio, very fast response, so surprising they 'downgraded" for the newest model.
> 
> Can anyone comment on the sound quality, fit and usability of these three, how they differ and and which is the best choice? Thanks!



Don't fall for the fallacy. I actually like Titanium a bit more. Lately they have been using BE more when changing but they are putting it on better drivers. It has some characteristics but it is the driver that is the key. The coating is like seasoning. Adds some flavor but the magnets makes it fast much more than the coating. The cap in front and how it breathes lets it be fast more that a layer of anything does which can be noticeable but not that big. There are bad drivers and if you coat it in BE it is still a bad driver. Goods drivers like in my old CD666 has a nice evaporated titanium driver. Where is the huge call to change the Koss driver from titanium to BE cause it would be so much better. As there are quite a few slower BE drivers out there it is not Be is always fast and tight and quite a few drivers are fast and tight regardless of coating or not even having a metallic coating on them.

In fact the reviews say the "downgrade" is the best sounding one though not much different in the signature.


----------



## Sam L

Any suggestions for a tws earphone that approaches the call quality of the Apple Airpods Pro?

Maybe the Galaxy Buds plus?


----------



## logiatype

Sam L said:


> Any suggestions for a tws earphone that approaches the call quality of the Apple Airpods Pro?
> 
> Maybe the Galaxy Buds plus?



This is what I'm searching for as well. I don't think you'll get an earbud format with the same quality (without the stalks). I've decided to stick with my Jaybird X3 (ordered an X4 for the office) because the dangling mic is much more useable for working from home (conference calls) and to get a TWS (waiting on N10 Pro) for commuting.

Another reason is that the Jaybirds let me multi-connect to my computer and phone simultaneously without issue (music & voice). None of the TWS I've tried let you do this.

Every TWS I've tried has been returned for these 2 reasons (GBuds+, Tevi, GBeans, and more).


----------



## TK33

Sam L said:


> Any suggestions for a tws earphone that approaches the call quality of the Apple Airpods Pro?
> 
> Maybe the Galaxy Buds plus?


I have been using the Buds Live for calls since Monday and they have been fantastic for calls.  No complaints or connection issues with my Galaxy S9 so far and I typically use 1 ear.  I also sit two feet from a PTAC unit which can get pretty loud when the compressor kicks in..  I got these primarily for calls. I also tried testing it with the Mic Test app and it picks up my voice very clearly. Never tried the APP so can't comment on that (last Apple product I owned was the first iPad with the Retina display) but I have been on calls with people using the APP and they aren't perfect either.  Not sure if perfect exists yet in the world of TWS but they are very practical and, for me, the practical aspect of them outweigh their shortcomings.  Also, it gives me a "reason" to have multiple pairs since each serves a different purpose and complement each other rather nicely.


----------



## webvan

phaeton70 said:


> that's really unfortunate, maybe it's something related to a firmware version or a different hw release, could be the case to ask Tronsmart for support?.
> can confirm that mine sound absolutely the same with ANC on or off.
> 
> you can connect your Apollo with aptx-HD?
> ...



They look exactly the same as mine ! Not sure how to check for the Hardware/Software version without an app and I can't see any Rev info on the box.
Sorry for the confusion, on my Android 9 phone it shows "HD Audio : Qualcomm aptX audio" and not aptX-HD as you pointed out.

Since my last post I connected with an iPhone 6S and the behavior is exactly the same when ANC and Ambient are turned on.

I've asked Tronsmart several times in this thread about that SQ alteration when ANC was turned on but they ignored my question so I'm not sure what to think. Other than that SQ alteration I haven't noticed any other problem.


----------



## regancipher

gibletzor said:


> After a few days with the new Tranya T10s, I have to say I'm undecided.  I think I still prefer the B530s overall.  The sound quality is great with the right tips (ie Spinfit cp360).  They're definitely more bass-heavy than the  B530s, to the point where I have to EQ the bass down a little bit so it doesn't overwhelm vocals and guitars.  I listened to some Pentatonix tonight at work while filling out paperwork and they sounded fantastic!  Switched to some Foo Fighters and Three Days Grace, and they're still good, but not AS good.  They're also not as comfortable for long term wear as the B530s or Gbuds+, but not the worst I've experienced by far.  I'm going to keep them because they do have redeeming qualities and I want to find that perfect spot for them.



It's when you get a decent set like the Tranya T10 that it reminds you how good the Apollo are.

I've reviewed some absolute garbage these last few weeks. Finally the T10 are a very decent set of budget earphones, everything is good except the mids. I've played the entire St Ettienne Album twice just to make sure! The biggest surprise was the call quality, their microphone quality is also excellent for the money. In fact, it outperformed my previous best, the Boltune BT-BH024, in any environment other than moving outdoors. It also isolated most background noise better than the ANC Aukey crap I endured the other day.

The Tranya, at the price, are superb. I'm in a similar position to you, I want to keep them because they've obviously made an effort with them, but they're close but no cigar. Like the UGREEN Hi-Tune, I just can't see where I would use them - they aren't comfortable for long term use, I completely agree.


----------



## regancipher

webvan said:


> They look exactly the same as mine ! Not sure how to check for the Hardware/Software version without an app and I can't see any Rev info on the box.
> Sorry for the confusion, on my Android 9 phone it shows "HD Audio : Qualcomm aptX audio" and not aptX-HD as you pointed out.
> 
> Since my last post I connected with an iPhone 6S and the behavior is exactly the same when ANC and Ambient are turned on.
> ...



RMA them. I just compared them to the Tranya T10 and they are way bassier.


----------



## webvan (Aug 12, 2020)

They're not particularly bassy when ANC and Ambient are off, quite a few people here received them as freebies so let's see if we can get more feedback and I'm pretty sure there was at least one other comment about the SQ being altered by ANC and ambient.

Anyway I'm not planning on keeping them as the passive isolation is poor which defeats the purpose of having ANC IMHO. I've tried all the ANC TWEs and the EchoBuds are still the best for passive+ANC followed by the MTW2 and the XM3s (if you ram them in your ears so they don't fall out).


----------



## phaeton70

webvan said:


> I've asked Tronsmart several times in this thread about that SQ alteration when ANC was turned on but they ignored my question so I'm not sure what to think. Other than that SQ alteration I haven't noticed any other problem.



in this case I really think you got a different fw. unfortunately I cannot suggest what to do since Tronsmart still has to release the app, expected in sept.... I'm sorry mate, that's really unfortunate, I don't have so much experience with TWS, but I can tell you these Apollo sound damn good when compared to my other "normal" cans. 
as for the passive isolation, I find it quite good, but I think it depends on each own particular ear canal shape. in my case just putting the Apollo in my ears (and disabling the ANC, which is on by default) the external noise goes down significantly, I basically can hear only the low freq rumble of the AC and the like.
if you can wait, maybe with the app you'll be ble to upgrade the fw to the latest one. finger crossed


----------



## DB10

DB10 said:


> Hi!
> Finally I will keep my Sony XM3. Based on your experience, which are the best tips for isolation and comfort?. I prefer foam over silicon, but I am looking forward to hearing your experience with Comply, SpinFit...and the best model that fits the charging case, thanks!


Hi,
¿any idea or suggestion?. My ears are a bit strange, because the ears (outside) are quite small but the inner diameter is quite large, so that I use L size in all the tips I buy, I will appreciate any suggestion, thanks!!!


----------



## Luke Skywalker (Aug 12, 2020)

sarv said:


> Apollo bold or Sony xm3 anyone got both of them? Which one would you recommend?


Have you considered the Nuarl N6 Pro?  I love them, way better sound than the XM3 in my opinion

*edit* to be fair... Although I don't like the XM3 for music (the main reason i got them obviously), they are far and away the best for call quality.  I use them all the time for phone calls for work


----------



## Luke Skywalker

Shadowclash10 said:


> You know, I was thinking, if someone wanted TWS with the absolute best noise cancellation/isolation, is one potential option budget CIEMs (custom-fitted IEMs) (around $150-200) paired with earhook Bluetooth adapters? I don't have CIEMs (personally would rather spend that much on headphones, esp cause I can't lose headphones and I can lose IEMs. ymmv), but I remember people saying that oftentimes, they isolate better than ANC buds, so... Especially once we see the next wave of Bluetooth IEM adapters hit, like the TRN BT20S Pro, that have charging cases, should have less hiss, etc.
> 
> TL;DR: Can we recommend budget CIEMs with BT earhook adapters (esp once next-gen adapters hit) as an alternative to ANC TWS, if the primary goal is isolation?


I'm using JH Lola's (non-custom fit) + Ear Studio and the sound is awesome. The isolation is good with Acoustune tips but not as quiet as the XM3's ANC for background noise.  Planning to get some customs this year after COVID lets up so I can get impressions made


----------



## gibletzor

ssouthall6 said:


> It's when you get a decent set like the Tranya T10 that it reminds you how good the Apollo are.
> 
> I've reviewed some absolute garbage these last few weeks. Finally the T10 are a very decent set of budget earphones, everything is good except the mids. I've played the entire St Ettienne Album twice just to make sure! The biggest surprise was the call quality, their microphone quality is also excellent for the money. In fact, it outperformed my previous best, the Boltune BT-BH024, in any environment other than moving outdoors. It also isolated most background noise better than the ANC Aukey crap I endured the other day.
> 
> The Tranya, at the price, are superb. I'm in a similar position to you, I want to keep them because they've obviously made an effort with them, but they're close but no cigar. Like the UGREEN Hi-Tune, I just can't see where I would use them - they aren't comfortable for long term use, I completely agree.


I've found the Tranya B530 (both versions) to have excellent call quality as well.  Haven't got to test the T10s on calls yet, but if they're anything like the B530 they'll be great.


----------



## Caipirina

So, I received those super fake Galaxy Buds in record shipping time from AliExpress and I am no expert, but I don’t think the LEDs on the originals are THAT strong (or the plastic casing so weak) 



They do actually work, seem to connect well, sound ok, albeit a bit muffled. And no idea yet what the battery life is like. So, kids: don’t buy fakes. Having said that, 10$ for the experience and the knowledge how detailed this copy business is these days & finally having some yellow TWS to color coordinate .. not bad. 

it will not take long to see the first copy GBLbeans on AliExpress... Mark my words


----------



## Shadowclash10

Caipirina said:


> So, I received those super fake Galaxy Buds in record shipping time from AliExpress and I am no expert, but I don’t think the LEDs on the originals are THAT strong (or the plastic casing so weak)
> 
> 
> They do actually work, seem to connect well, sound ok, albeit a bit muffled. And no idea yet what the battery life is like. So, kids: don’t buy fakes. Having said that, 10$ for the experience and the knowledge how detailed this copy business is these days & finally having some yellow TWS to color coordinate .. not bad.
> ...


LOL... you actually did it! Honestly, I'm suprised that they actually work! I expected them to either be DOA, or be plagued with drop-outs, sound like a old radio, or something like that. I'd expect 1-2 hours maybe? And 1-2 recharges of the case? I find it really funny that the lights are like that - they look like they belong on a kid's RC car or something. Are they touch buttons or real buttons? Do they have a mic?How would you say SQ is? Roughly as good as Apple's bundled wired pods? Sorry for all the questions .

They actually look passable at a distance. They have the proper case letters and everything!


----------



## gibletzor

Caipirina said:


> So, I received those super fake Galaxy Buds in record shipping time from AliExpress and I am no expert, but I don’t think the LEDs on the originals are THAT strong (or the plastic casing so weak)
> 
> 
> They do actually work, seem to connect well, sound ok, albeit a bit muffled. And no idea yet what the battery life is like. So, kids: don’t buy fakes. Having said that, 10$ for the experience and the knowledge how detailed this copy business is these days & finally having some yellow TWS to color coordinate .. not bad.
> ...


Those lights remind me of the Lystar TWS I got for $20 or so on Amazon last year!  Those things will light up a dark room.


----------



## MadMike

DB10 said:


> Hi,
> ¿any idea or suggestion?. My ears are a bit strange, because the ears (outside) are quite small but the inner diameter is quite large, so that I use L size in all the tips I buy, I will appreciate any suggestion, thanks!!!


The SednaEarfit Xelastec tips work very well with the XM3- great isolation and the earbuds stay in place nicely! Pricey though.


----------



## VICosPhi

Caipirina said:


> So, I received those super fake Galaxy Buds in record shipping time from AliExpress and I am no expert, but I don’t think the LEDs on the originals are THAT strong (or the plastic casing so weak)



Pure Evil!


----------



## DB10

MadMike said:


> The SednaEarfit Xelastec tips work very well with the XM3- great isolation and the earbuds stay in place nicely! Pricey though.


Hi! Thanks for your help, it seems to be difficult to buy them in Spain...I have also considered buying a Nuarl N6 PRO but it is impossible... Does anyone know how buy them in Europe, Spain?
Thanks in advance.


----------



## Caipirina

VICosPhi said:


> Pure Evil!


Awesome!!!


----------



## Caipirina

Shadowclash10 said:


> LOL... you actually did it! Honestly, I'm suprised that they actually work! I expected them to either be DOA, or be plagued with drop-outs, sound like a old radio, or something like that. I'd expect 1-2 hours maybe? And 1-2 recharges of the case? I find it really funny that the lights are like that - they look like they belong on a kid's RC car or something. Are they touch buttons or real buttons? Do they have a mic?How would you say SQ is? Roughly as good as Apple's bundled wired pods? Sorry for all the questions .
> 
> They actually look passable at a distance. They have the proper case letters and everything!


Will try on a run today and then report back 

those are touch buttons and so far I got them to play / pause nicely. The included booklet does not say anything about what else those buttons can do.


----------



## willyk

gibletzor said:


> After a few days with the new Tranya T10s, I have to say I'm undecided.  I think I still prefer the B530s overall.  The sound quality is great with the right tips (ie Spinfit cp360).  They're definitely more bass-heavy than the  B530s, to the point where I have to EQ the bass down a little bit so it doesn't overwhelm vocals and guitars.  I listened to some Pentatonix tonight at work while filling out paperwork and they sounded fantastic!  Switched to some Foo Fighters and Three Days Grace, and they're still good, but not AS good.  They're also not as comfortable for long term wear as the B530s or Gbuds+, but not the worst I've experienced by far.  I'm going to keep them because they do have redeeming qualities and I want to find that perfect spot for them.



I am at 2+ weeks with the T10s, using them every day, listening while working and when running.  Fortunately, b/c of the great info on this forum, all of the sub-$75 TWSs I own are at least good.  I'd place the T10's at the bottom of that list, easily bested by TWSs such as the MPOW T5s, B530s and Rimors.  I agree that the upper bass freqs are overwhelming and they really stifle just about all other freqs.  I had a family member a/b the T10s with other TWSs and it was the same result.  While certainly acceptable overall, the only really good feature of the T10s that I can see is the BT connection.


----------



## chinmie

Caipirina said:


> So, I received those super fake Galaxy Buds in record shipping time from AliExpress and I am no expert, but I don’t think the LEDs on the originals are THAT strong (or the plastic casing so weak)
> 
> 
> They do actually work, seem to connect well, sound ok, albeit a bit muffled. And no idea yet what the battery life is like. So, kids: don’t buy fakes. Having said that, 10$ for the experience and the knowledge how detailed this copy business is these days & finally having some yellow TWS to color coordinate .. not bad.
> ...



i saw some fake Bose sleepbuds on my local online store that actually does music unlike the real ones, tempting to try, but at 20 usd something, it's a bit much for an obvious fake


----------



## Tronsmart Official

webvan said:


> They look exactly the same as mine ! Not sure how to check for the Hardware/Software version without an app and I can't see any Rev info on the box.
> Sorry for the confusion, on my Android 9 phone it shows "HD Audio : Qualcomm aptX audio" and not aptX-HD as you pointed out.
> 
> Since my last post I connected with an iPhone 6S and the behavior is exactly the same when ANC and Ambient are turned on.
> ...


Hi, webvan,
Sorry if we didn't reply your questions in time. There are many messages in the thread. Sometimes we cannot see. If you have any question, you can also PM us.
About Apollo Bold, we have explained in this thread atthe beginning, there is no different versions! Only one version. App is same, but hasn't been released. 
Apollo Bold cannot support aptX HD at this moment. We are working together with Qualcomm to solve some technical things. Please stay stuned. 
When ANC on, the outside noise is blocked out. But when Ambient mode on, you can hear the noise. I think it is quite different. If yours are same, please contact us. 
Thanks.


----------



## VICosPhi

So the Galaxy Buds Live code-name printed inside is a bit obvious imo.
iFixit people can tear anything down!


----------



## Caipirina

chinmie said:


> i saw some fake Bose sleepbuds on my local online store that actually does music unlike the real ones, tempting to try, but at 20 usd something, it's a bit much for an obvious fake



but if they could keep that tiny form factor AND the stay hear tips, i'd be really tempted ... but from experience with 'micro' buds ... if not enough antenna pokes out of the ear = bad bad connection between buds ...


----------



## FYLegend

jant71 said:


> Sabbat Vooplay... https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4001286685971.html?spm=2114.12010611.8148356.10.5bed5de0ytL7hZ
> Big 14.2 bio-fiber driver, aptX/AAC, USB-C, 6/40 hours total volume control, and plenty of colors to choose from. Obviously not to be bought at the opening see if we can get it Ali price as it should drop soon but kinda interesting for those not needing ANC etc. the like and just for listening especially is the streamline design is useful to you.


Looks nice but I wish they make another in-ear design with better fit, and with ambient sound at that.



Uncle00Jesse said:


> Would I be a lunatic for purchasing the galaxy buds live for use on an iPhone only?


Nope, better than purchasing them for use with only Windows 10.


----------



## voicemaster

VICosPhi said:


> So the Galaxy Buds Live code-name printed inside is a bit obvious imo.
> iFixit people can tear anything down!


Looks like it is going to be easy to change the battery if it dies, then again who use one TWS for 2 years??


----------



## VICosPhi (Aug 13, 2020)

voicemaster said:


> Looks like it is going to be easy to change the battery if it dies, then again who use one TWS for 2 years??


Sounds like a fun project when time comes for  the battery, but that IPX2 rating will go away I guess if we open it. The driver has to be lifted to remove the battery which seems risky lol... looks like I will be contributing to the e-Waste pile


The Global E-Waste Monitor 2020 reports a record 59 tons of e-waste, and predicts a rise to 81 tons by 2030.

https://tr1.cbsistatic.com/hub/i/r/...a4beb99575f85cbc/chart-2-types-of-e-waste.jpg
https://www.techrepublic.com/articl...n-5-years-causing-serious-environmental-harm/


----------



## gibletzor

willyk said:


> I am at 2+ weeks with the T10s, using them every day, listening while working and when running.  Fortunately, b/c of the great info on this forum, all of the sub-$75 TWSs I own are at least good.  I'd place the T10's at the bottom of that list, easily bested by TWSs such as the MPOW T5s, B530s and Rimors.  I agree that the upper bass freqs are overwhelming and they really stifle just about all other freqs.  I had a family member a/b the T10s with other TWSs and it was the same result.  While certainly acceptable overall, the only really good feature of the T10s that I can see is the BT connection.


I would agree on the Mpow T5s and B530s being overall better, but I was not a fan of the Rimors.  Mine are broken now so I can't go back and A/B them, but I was not a fan.


----------



## bronco1015 (Aug 13, 2020)

Edit, after reading the posts about the T10 in this thread, i wanted to clarify what i say about the bass below. FWIW, i'm using the stock small tips, and i get a really snug fit with them. That said, they do get tiresome after 45-60 mins. the shape of the iem isn't as comfortable as the b530s were. Specificly what i mean to say about the bass is that, the bass closest to where mids end and bass begin is over done. It doesn't feel sloppy, but it sounds sloppy. i mention decent like a passive sub, i don't mean that i only hear certain bass notes here and there, but rather that the bass has that same sound i hear in passive subs but it never stops. Theres no texture or definition to what i hear from the bass. I wanted to like these more than i do. The case and iems are  nicely built, the IPX7, Wireless charging and USB-C are all wins as well.
Original post is below. 2 days with the Tranya t10, they're just okay. Glad i didn't pay for them. To me, they sound similar to what i remember the original B530 sounding like. forward but kinda weird sounding mids, definitely not the worst i've heard at all, bass is decent, like passive sub from a home theater in a box decent, and up top kinda harsh at times. I'd say the OG B530 and the 2nd B530 with aptx sound cleaner over all and just better across the board. For $40 though, one could do worse. i'd say $20-30 max is what i'd pay for them though. Every other TWE i own is much better than these.
The T10 is; imo, a step backward and sideways from the b530 models.


----------



## Sam L (Aug 13, 2020)

Galaxy Buds Live.

Earbud aficionados will be familiar with how they present sound. Great bass for an open design, along with a very spacious soundstage. Didn't appreciate paying full retail to scratch the itch, but the moment it creeps down to the $129 range they will be a FANTASTIC buy. Call quality is nearly identical in quality to Apple Airpod Pros, with some nuanced differences but they are negligible. Fit can be elusive to dial in. The trick is to experiment with adjusting the beans across all four axes, not just insert and twist because there is also some room to play with the angle the sound vents lie in the ear as well.

One you get it down, it's super simple to get right every time. And they stay secure. I'll have no issues running with these and because of this, I'm super happy with the purchase.

Oh, and the ANC is useless. You can hear the difference when it's applied but who are we kidding, they don't really "cancel noise" realistically.


----------



## voicemaster (Aug 13, 2020)

Sam L said:


> Galaxy Buds Live.
> 
> Earbud aficionados will be familiar with how they present sound. Great bass for an open design, along with a very spacious soundstage. Didn't appreciate paying full retail to scratch the itch, but the moment it creeps down to the $129 range they will be a FANTASTIC buy. Call quality is nearly identical in quality to Apple Airpod Pros, with some nuanced differences but they are negligible. Fit can be elusive to dial in. The trick is to experiment with adjusting the beans across all four axes, not just insert and twist because there is also some room to play with the angle the sound vents lie in the ear as well.
> 
> ...


Yes, they are really fit dependent and you can tweak the sound with how much you positioned them inside your concha. The best sound for me is just put them on without jamming it into the ear canal. It gives a more open and airy treble, lessen and tighten the bass, mid is about the same. If I jammed it in, the sound will be more bass heavy and the bass will bleed into the mids, treble becomes dull kinda sounds like early cheap clone airpods.
The good thing is when they are sit in my concha, it won't move even when I shake my head real hard.


----------



## webvan

Sounds like you're better off getting the excellent, cheap and reliable X12s then ?


----------



## Caipirina

sarv said:


> Apollo bold or Sony xm3 anyone got both of them? Which one would you recommend?


I have both and recommend: get both 

ok, if you are strapped for cash, get the Apollo. The xm3 sound a tad better same with ANC. Is the difference worth the price difference? That’s up to you. Oh, and I actually went running with the Apollo’s, something i would not dare try with the xm3 ...

get the Apollo and start saving for the xm4?


----------



## chinmie (Aug 13, 2020)

webvan said:


> Sounds like you're better off getting the excellent, cheap and reliable X12s then ?



Sabbat X12 with Wavelet bass tuner boosted = sweet


----------



## DB10

MadMike said:


> The SednaEarfit Xelastec tips work very well with the XM3- great isolation and the earbuds stay in place nicely! Pricey though.



Hi!! thanks for your suggestion, I will try to find them here in Spain at a reasonable price...


----------



## phaeton70

is it possible that the bass response of these Apollo Bold continues evolving in time? I started with -6db in the bass, then I moved to -4 now I'm at -2db and comparing A/B wth no eq I would say I could even listen to them un-eq'ed  that's a big surprise to me, I would have never said these little drivers can take so much time to settle....
PS and, no, it's not psychoacoustics or my ears adapting... I can (and actually do) reset my ears with some very linear cans every day


----------



## chinmie

phaeton70 said:


> is it possible that the bass response of these Apollo Bold continues evolving in time? I started with -6db in the bass, then I moved to -4 now I'm at -2db and comparing A/B wth no eq I would say I could even listen to them un-eq'ed  that's a big surprise to me, I would have never said these little drivers can take so much time to settle....
> PS and, no, it's not psychoacoustics or my ears adapting... I can (and actually do) reset my ears with some very linear cans every day



based on my experience, and also confirmed by a friend of mine who makes earbuds, with certain amount of playtime, usually for dynamic drivers the bass is expected to change, more often the amount of bass would decrease or become less "wooly" and cleans up. different driver materials have different settle period (and amount of change), with some smaller micro drivers usually need less time, and some like BAs seems to not change at all.


----------



## phaeton70

yes, exactly that. less "wooly" and more "cleaned", with a substantial level down (welcomed). so it's not these Apollo in particular, good to know  
btw, IIRC the driver is made with graphene.


----------



## Kvarkmeister

LoryWiv said:


> I'm interested in the Soundpeat Truengine but haven't seen much activity about them on this thread. It seems there are 3 models, Truengine SE, Truengine 2 SE and Truengine 2 SE. All are reasonably priced on Amazon, Bluetooth 5.0 w/AptX, and use dual dynamic drivers per each ear. Interestingly the drivers are beryllium-coated + composite for the earlier models and titanium + composite for the 3 SE. In general I think of beryllium as more high end for audio, very fast response, so surprising they 'downgraded" for the newest model.
> 
> Can anyone comment on the sound quality, fit and usability of these three, how they differ and and which is the best choice? Thanks!


The small amount of noise about the 3SE here is a bit surprising to me. As already quoted, the 3SE seems to have the best overall sound of the three regardless of the plating.

I'm hoping to see them arrive next week since I ordered them from AliExpress. I've been keen on reviews and all are positive, except for the mics. Moreso, there seems to be the typical faulty pair issue going around.

I'll post here when I get my hands on them.


----------



## logiatype

Kvarkmeister said:


> The small amount of noise about the 3SE here is a bit surprising to me. As already quoted, the 3SE seems to have the best overall sound of the three regardless of the plating.
> 
> I'm hoping to see them arrive next week since I ordered them from AliExpress. I've been keen on reviews and all are positive, except for the mics. Moreso, there seems to be the typical faulty pair issue going around.
> 
> I'll post here when I get my hands on them.


Do they have an app with EQ?


----------



## Kvarkmeister

logiatype said:


> Do they have an app with EQ?


Nah, you'll have to EQ with an app of your own.


----------



## Fodterapeuten (Aug 13, 2020)

What about the bluetooth and sound quality if you are streaming from your Smartwatch to your in ears monitors only using cellular connection data from spotify for example, then it must be the same streaming quality and sound quality as with the wired cables to your phone or am i wrong?.


----------



## sarv

Caipirina said:


> I have both and recommend: get both
> 
> ok, if you are strapped for cash, get the Apollo. The xm3 sound a tad better same with ANC. Is the difference worth the price difference? That’s up to you. Oh, and I actually went running with the Apollo’s, something i would not dare try with the xm3 ...
> 
> get the Apollo and start saving for the xm4?


Any news on xm4, I maybe be able to make due with APP for a while if that's the case.. thx for your message tho


----------



## assassin10000 (Aug 13, 2020)

chinmie said:


> Sabbat X12 with Wavelet bass tuner boosted = sweet



Yeah, X12 with some EQ is better. Are you using earbud foams on them too?


Out of curiosity I ordered the X12 Ultra to see if the Qualcomm chip does a better job than whatever's in the X12 Pro (2nd gen with type-c case).

To my ears they become congested with even normal pop songs, let alone anything 'busy', thats where I'm hoping for improvement. As it could be poor AAC implementation. (Edit: This could also be due to having slightly harder to drive speakers, as I did mod these with different earbud drivers.)

(@Caipirina ordered them too, but they're in a different country than his location currently.)


----------



## webvan

The chip in the Pro v1/v2 is  RealTek RTL8763BF and the v1 (I have the v2 as a backup and the one time I tried them they were fine too) don't sound "congested" at all to my ears and the foams don't change the sound if an opening is made for the driver. While they are perfect for running they are NOT made for critical listening, there aren't many TWEs that qualify for that, I use the LP2 when I need that type of experience.


----------



## phaeton70

Fodterapeuten said:


> What about the bluetooth and sound quality if you are streaming from your Smartwatch to your in ears monitors only using cellular connection data from spotify for example, then it must be the same streaming quality and sound quality as with the wired cables to your phone or am i wrong?.



spotify on the mobile streams at 160kbs AAC in high quality so can be handled easily by AAC or aptX. 
if you have a premium subscription you can have up to 320kbs in very high quality, in that case the bt codec "could" be a bottleneck, especially AAC which is limited to 250kbs, but then you will have to consider the different compression type, so I wouldn't be too worried about the data rate.
but the sound quality wired/bt can be very different depending on the different stack you are using (very highlevel overview):
wired: AAC spotify stream -> decode to pcm -> mobile DAC -> mobile amp -> earbuds
bt: AAC spotify stream -> decode to pcm -> code to aptX/AAC for bt -> RF tx -> RF rx -> decode to pcm -> go through the DSP -> earbuds DAC -> earbuds amp -> earbuds


----------



## assassin10000 (Aug 13, 2020)

webvan said:


> The chip in the Pro v1/v2 is  RealTek RTL8763BF and the v1 (I have the v2 as a backup and the one time I tried them they were fine too) don't sound "congested" at all to my ears and the foams don't change the sound if an opening is made for the driver. While they are perfect for running they are NOT made for critical listening, there aren't many TWEs that qualify for that, I use the LP2 when I need that type of experience.



I should mention that I didn't really notice this congestion until I had modded my X12's with other earbud drivers.

And only if sitting down and listening while doing other tasks. If out with them I don't really notice it.


I'll probably put the original drivers back on when I compare them.

I agree, foams with a hole made for the opening don't change the sound. What they do 'do' is keep the bass in your ears instead of being lost to the surroundings.


----------



## webvan

Yes they really help keeping the bass when moving around, without them the placement needs to be worked on more precisely and is not stable. Besides it makes them more comfortable


----------



## chinmie

assassin10000 said:


> Yeah, X12 with some EQ is better. Are you using earbud foams on them too?
> 
> 
> Out of curiosity I ordered the X12 Ultra to see if the Qualcomm chip does a better job than whatever's in the X12 Pro (2nd gen with type-c case).
> ...



i currently have the version 1 (micro usb) and 2 (usb c) of the X12, they have a slightly different sound, with the v1 have a more fuller mids and the v2 have a leaner sound and slightly wider sound. the difference is slight, but it's there. 

i used to put some thin foams (without cut-out for the nozzle), but ended up removing them because it makes my ears itchy. 

they're still some of my most used TWS, especially when isolation is not needed. I'm thinking of adding more earbud type TWS like the onyx ace, but i much prefer the IEM shape and physical buttons like the X12, so i might as well end up buying another X12 in the future... or maybe the Glive..


----------



## assassin10000

chinmie said:


> i currently have the version 1 (micro usb) and 2 (usb c) of the X12, they have a slightly different sound, with the v1 have a more fuller mids and the v2 have a leaner sound and slightly wider sound. the difference is slight, but it's there.
> 
> i used to put some thin foams (without cut-out for the nozzle), but ended up removing them because it makes my ears itchy.
> 
> they're still some of my most used TWS, especially when isolation is not needed. I'm thinking of adding more earbud type TWS like the onyx ace, but i much prefer the IEM shape and physical buttons like the X12, so i might as well end up buying another X12 in the future... or maybe the Glive..



Good to know.

Yeah, thin foams are itchy. I use regular thickness with a hole for the driver opening.

I like the earbud driver mod I did even more for comfort. I actually find the airpod'ish x12 shape uncomfortable without foams. Even after reshaping them, better but not good for more than an hour or so.


Isolation isn't needed for the majority of my listening. That's partly why I ordered the Ultras (v3 also maybe? They had the ugly camo series which would definitely be v3). That and the QCC3020 may be able to handle other drivers better if I also put earbud drivers on them too.


I just ordered the beans/buds live too . Hoping they fit my smaller concha.


----------



## DB10

Hi! I am enjoying my XM3, still looking for the best tips. Now a want a pair for sport, garden use (dust)... What do you suggest me? I would riquere secure fit for biking, and if possible... The best sound, what do you suggest me? Are the Jabras worth its cost  or something like a soundpeats would be great?

Thanks!


----------



## SilverGrey

gdv brisbane said:


> Like you, I was initially concerned that a TWS wouldn't be able to hold a candle to my Etymotic ER4s. However, having "gambled" £24 on a pair of SSKs and then £20 on a pair of Soundpeats Truedots, I can assure you that the SQ is excellent and that they represent staggering value for money. Time to take the plunge...



I eventually bit the bullet and bought a pair of MPOW M30 Plus’s for £23 from Amazon. They are mightily impressive and punch well above their weight, with a well-balanced, yet fun sound.


----------



## hifi80sman

Just picked up the Galaxy Buds Live.  Big, Bold, Powerful sound, something I'd never thought I would associate with Samsung!

The fit was a bit tricky at first and had to use the larger "wings".  Even with ANC, I'd still say it's a muffled "semi-open" impression, but with low frequency sounds cancelled.  This is interesting, because it gives it a sense of speciousness that you don't get from typical earbud style tips.  Touch controls have a small sweet spot, which is an adjustment.

Overall, surprised the sound is this "fun".  Oh, and calls are _*great *_on these things.


----------



## willyk

bronco1015 said:


> Edit, after reading the posts about the T10 in this thread, i wanted to clarify what i say about the bass below. FWIW, i'm using the stock small tips, and i get a really snug fit with them. That said, they do get tiresome after 45-60 mins. the shape of the iem isn't as comfortable as the b530s were. Specificly what i mean to say about the bass is that, the bass closest to where mids end and bass begin is over done. It doesn't feel sloppy, but it sounds sloppy. i mention decent like a passive sub, i don't mean that i only hear certain bass notes here and there, but rather that the bass has that same sound i hear in passive subs but it never stops. Theres no texture or definition to what i hear from the bass. I wanted to like these more than i do. The case and iems are  nicely built, the IPX7, Wireless charging and USB-C are all wins as well.
> Original post is below. 2 days with the Tranya t10, they're just okay. Glad i didn't pay for them. To me, they sound similar to what i remember the original B530 sounding like. forward but kinda weird sounding mids, definitely not the worst i've heard at all, bass is decent, like passive sub from a home theater in a box decent, and up top kinda harsh at times. I'd say the OG B530 and the 2nd B530 with aptx sound cleaner over all and just better across the board. For $40 though, one could do worse. i'd say $20-30 max is what i'd pay for them though. Every other TWE i own is much better than these.
> The T10 is; imo, a step backward and sideways from the b530 models.


Well put and I agree.


----------



## willyk

gibletzor said:


> I would agree on the Mpow T5s and B530s being overall better, but I was not a fan of the Rimors.  Mine are broken now so I can't go back and A/B them, but I was not a fan.


Understand.
I might be the only one on this forum that absolutely loves the Rimors - in fact I've got two pair of them.  I am ok with this, and I don't expect anyone to agree, or change their minds.  No need to offer a counterpoint.

I've a/b'ed them with other people and it's always unanimous - among my modest collection of sub-$75 TWS earbuds, everything sounds less dynamic, with less of a detailed soundstage than the Rimors.  Maybe I've got the only two pair that were correctly manufactured.  Who know - who cares.  I love 'em.     I don't love the RealTek BT chips though.

I agree with the other T10 reviews - don't go too far out of your way to buy them.  They're ok, but not leaders in their class.


----------



## jasonb

hifi80sman said:


> Just picked up the Galaxy Buds Live.  Big, Bold, Powerful sound, something I'd never thought I would associate with Samsung!
> 
> The fit was a bit tricky at first and had to use the larger "wings".  Even with ANC, I'd still say it's a muffled "semi-open" impression, but with low frequency sounds cancelled.  This is interesting, because it gives it a sense of speciousness that you don't get from typical earbud style tips.  Touch controls have a small sweet spot, which is an adjustment.
> 
> Overall, surprised the sound is this "fun".  Oh, and calls are _*great *_on these things.



I kind of want to try these, but I need to buy from a place with an easy return policy because I'm not that sure I'll like them. I like the idea and they intrigue me.


----------



## FYLegend

Any thoughts on Lytte Harmoniq?
https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/lytte-harmoniq-world-s-first-3d-acoustic-earbuds#/



chinmie said:


> Sabbat X12 with Wavelet bass tuner boosted = sweet


Meanwhile I want less bass on E12 and Wavelet AutoEQ works great except it introduces a lot of clipping. I find the reduce clipping feature to add a metallic artifact, the limiter is cleaner but gives a DR compressor effect.


----------



## voicemaster (Aug 13, 2020)

hifi80sman said:


> Just picked up the Galaxy Buds Live.  Big, Bold, Powerful sound, something I'd never thought I would associate with Samsung!
> 
> The fit was a bit tricky at first and had to use the larger "wings".  Even with ANC, I'd still say it's a muffled "semi-open" impression, but with low frequency sounds cancelled.  This is interesting, because it gives it a sense of speciousness that you don't get from typical earbud style tips.  Touch controls have a small sweet spot, which is an adjustment.
> 
> Overall, surprised the sound is this "fun".  Oh, and calls are _*great *_on these things.


The bass will be tamed down after about 20 hours or so, but the quantity is still more than Gbuds and Gbuds+. It will also be less muddy just like most of dynamic driver IEM suffer when ootb. 
Definitely a completely different sound signature than their previous TWS.


----------



## hmscott

bronco1015 said:


> Edit, after reading the posts about the T10 in this thread, i wanted to clarify what i say about the bass below. FWIW, i'm using the stock small tips, and i get a really snug fit with them. That said, they do get tiresome after 45-60 mins. the shape of the iem isn't as comfortable as the b530s were. Specificly what i mean to say about the bass is that, the bass closest to where mids end and bass begin is over done. It doesn't feel sloppy, but it sounds sloppy. i mention decent like a passive sub, i don't mean that i only hear certain bass notes here and there, but rather that the bass has that same sound i hear in passive subs but it never stops. Theres no texture or definition to what i hear from the bass. I wanted to like these more than i do. The case and iems are  nicely built, the IPX7, Wireless charging and USB-C are all wins as well.
> Original post is below. 2 days with the Tranya t10, they're just okay. Glad i didn't pay for them. To me, they sound similar to what i remember the original B530 sounding like. forward but kinda weird sounding mids, definitely not the worst i've heard at all, bass is decent, like passive sub from a home theater in a box decent, and up top kinda harsh at times. I'd say the OG B530 and the 2nd B530 with aptx sound cleaner over all and just better across the board. For $40 though, one could do worse. i'd say $20-30 max is what i'd pay for them though. Every other TWE i own is much better than these.
> The T10 is; imo, a step backward and sideways from the b530 models.


I agree the T10 stock tips don't seal well for me either - and the sound range is limited as a result, at least in comparison to changing to these:

AZLA SednaEarfitLight Short 2 Pairs (Size ML)
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B083XQM2YP

Those fit in the case with the lid closed, and sound almost as great as the full sized tips:

AZLA SednaEarfit 2 Pairs (Size ML)
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B083GF9N81

Those both open up the sound and dynamic range of the T10's, I love the sound now and am glad I got 2 pair of the T10's for the long term.

The SednaEarfit ML's (full sized) fit in the KZ S2 cases fine, so just in case I keep both form factors around for new IEM's and TWS's. I've gone through a lot of tip brand and form factors over about 6 months and I am so happy now that I've found a brand / model that improve the sound and seal fit in my ears.


----------



## TK33

voicemaster said:


> The bass will be tamed down after about 20 hours or so, but the quantity is still more than Gbuds and Gbuds+. It will also be less muddy just like most of dynamic driver IEM suffer when ootb.
> Definitely a completely different sound signature than their previous TWS.



Its funny you say that...maybe my brain adjusted to the sound signature but yesterday the Treble Boost setting started sounding a bit bright and thin to me.  I turned off Adapt Sound and switched to the Clear setting with ambient on and like that better now. Doesn't sound as compressed and congested as I remember thinking it was when I first tried it.


----------



## howdy

Was considering the Technic AZ-70 as they are on sale at amazon for 199.99 usually 250.00. I've always loved that brand, still have a pair of floor speakers that I bought in 1994 hooked to Onkyo receiver.
I'm also really trying hard to wait for the  Bose TW coming soon.


----------



## KafkaEsqueMajor

Can someone recommend me something in the range of 30-50$? 

I previously have the anbes 359 but it's falling apart on me and while it fit my ears quite good the sound sometimes felt lacking. 

I usually listen to pop, I like to hear the vocals so not too overbearing bass I guess? Also something that will stay in my ear when running or doing some outdoor activites.

I live in Europe so if it's something I can order from amazon.de or aliexpress that would be a plus.


----------



## gibletzor

willyk said:


> Understand.
> I might be the only one on this forum that absolutely loves the Rimors - in fact I've got two pair of them.  I am ok with this, and I don't expect anyone to agree, or change their minds.  No need to offer a counterpoint.
> 
> I've a/b'ed them with other people and it's always unanimous - among my modest collection of sub-$75 TWS earbuds, everything sounds less dynamic, with less of a detailed soundstage than the Rimors.  Maybe I've got the only two pair that were correctly manufactured.  Who know - who cares.  I love 'em.     I don't love the RealTek BT chips though.
> ...


Oh for sure!  Everyone has different ears and different sound preferences.  I doubt mine were incorrectly manufactured, but it just wasn't my cup of tea.


----------



## DigDub

Size comparison between Sony 1000xm3, APP and Panasonic rz-s500w.


----------



## VICosPhi

I wish the new Bose TWS were designed as completely in ear spherical design rather than the Bluetooth VOIP adapter style design.


----------



## howdy

KafkaEsqueMajor said:


> Can someone recommend me something in the range of 30-50$?
> 
> I previously have the anbes 359 but it's falling apart on me and while it fit my ears quite good the sound sometimes felt lacking.
> 
> ...


The Tevis are a great pair, however they are about 90 dollars but well worth it!


----------



## jant71 (Aug 14, 2020)

Must admit I'm likin' the green...





Mclaren have ugly faded orange tips that don't match the orange of the case and the script Klipsch is nicer looking to me than the Mclaren version.



And while the wrist strap may just be useful the "speed of sound" tag on the Mclaren's I can do without a tag on the strap. To me if you need a Qi pad then maybe the $20 might be worth it but I don't think it is worth it esp. since it is just branded but not in color or logos that actually look better.


----------



## voicemaster

TK33 said:


> Its funny you say that...maybe my brain adjusted to the sound signature but yesterday the Treble Boost setting started sounding a bit bright and thin to me.  I turned off Adapt Sound and switched to the Clear setting with ambient on and like that better now. Doesn't sound as compressed and congested as I remember thinking it was when I first tried it.


It also happened to me too. OOTB it was so muddy with bloated bass, but after listening with it for 8 hours or so, the sound became clearer and the bass is not as bloated as before. The first day I got it, I listened using the gbeans for almost 8 hours+. Still, this beans is different than typical tws, even with airpods, you want to get a good seal (which can be easily broken by just moving your mouth. With the Gbeans, you actually don't want a seal at all else the bass will be bloated.


----------



## hifi80sman

jasonb said:


> I kind of want to try these, but I need to buy from a place with an easy return policy because I'm not that sure I'll like them. I like the idea and they intrigue me.


They have them at Best Buy.  Unless you’re banned, get them there. 🙂


----------



## Bobbetybob

MOONDROP said:


> Time for some teasers.



Quoted from the Moondrop thread, looks like they might be working on a TWS set. That would certainly be interesting, wonder what price they're aiming at.


----------



## bronco1015

hmscott said:


> I agree the T10 stock tips don't seal well for me either - and the sound range is limited as a result, at least in comparison to changing to these:
> 
> AZLA SednaEarfitLight Short 2 Pairs (Size ML)
> https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B083XQM2YP
> ...


Pretty sure the adds i've been seeing the last few days are for those exact tips. Good to know they work well on the t10. I didn't think to mention it at the time, but i had a thought while using the T10 that this case could hold any tip i wanted to put on these most likely. i will probably pick some of these tips you mention up soon, to bad i already sold the t10.


----------



## Caipirina

KafkaEsqueMajor said:


> Can someone recommend me something in the range of 30-50$?
> 
> I previously have the anbes 359 but it's falling apart on me and while it fit my ears quite good the sound sometimes felt lacking.
> 
> ...


Tronsmart Spunky Beats. Their AliExpress store has a vendor / distributor in Poland for EU folks, shipping took a week. I keep loving those (bought a spare set after my first one went 'missing')  and they have the most similar fit to the Anbes. They do a great job at passive isolation, they sound great, and they have AptX ...


----------



## bronco1015

howdy said:


> Was considering the Technic AZ-70 as they are on sale at amazon for 199.99 usually 250.00. I've always loved that brand, still have a pair of floor speakers that I bought in 1994 hooked to Onkyo receiver.
> I'm also really trying hard to wait for the  Bose TW coming soon.


I almost bought these as well, but no APTX doesn't help their cause for me. Granted, i am planning on picking the Bose up, and have no expectation they will have APTX either. But the qc35 sound pretty good over SBC, and i expect i know what i'm getting as far as sound with the Bose earbuds 700. I have no idea how Panasonic tuned the AE70, and the only panasonic product i've heard recently was a pair of closedback overears a guy had hooked to his SP1000  at RMAF in 2017 and they sounded like garbage.
I don't get the sense the AE70s objectively sound bad, i just don't have anything to reference. Thanks to my recent BT overear binge i can only afford one of these 2. IF you pick them up please post your thoughts on them.
Anyone else that owns the AE70, i haven't ruled them out yet, especially since they have solid ANC based on posts i've seen here and from some reviews i've read. But how would you describe the sound? What True wireless models have you heard that you would compare them to?


----------



## Caipirina

DigDub said:


> Size comparison between Sony 1000xm3, APP and Panasonic rz-s500w.


Sorry if I missed it, but did you share your thoughts yet regarding SQ and ANC performance? I see the white panasonics on amazon warehouse for 128€ and that's a mild itch, especially since I still have to wait 10 days until I receive my GBeans ...


----------



## bronco1015

hifi80sman said:


> They have them at Best Buy.  Unless you’re banned, get them there. 🙂


Unless you're banned? lol...Spoken like a true junkie. no judgement here though, i've contributed to plenty openbox sales myself.


----------



## baskingshark (Aug 14, 2020)

Friends, I see the TRN BT20S Pro being listed on a few shops in Aliexpress (I think it is for preorder). Price ranges from $63 - 74.70 USD.

Some stores list it as the "TRN BT20 Pro" without an S behind the BT20 part, so search accordingly!

Strangely they haven't put the modular MMCX/2 pin things for sale, only the main unit itself.
Argg at lowest price of $63 (potentially even more if one buys the modular options for 2 pin/MMCX), that is a bit on the pricier side. Plus TRN's rep for QC isn't always stellar. Anyone game to try it??

EDIT: I see some shops have coupons too, so maybe it can be low $60 USD at some shops with coupons.


----------



## martiniCZ

So, AK audio store start sell the new TRN BT20S PRO for $ 66 incl. sipping, unfortunately with only one interface to choose from. The microUSB is also mentioned in the description, but perhaps it can only copied from the old BT20S. Anyway, the price seems exaggerated to me, that it's just some QCC3020 TWS without drivers, so why?


----------



## baskingshark

martiniCZ said:


> So, AK audio store start sell the new TRN BT20S PRO for $ 66 incl. sipping, unfortunately with only one interface to choose from. The microUSB is also mentioned in the description, but perhaps it can only copied from the old BT20S. Anyway, the price seems exaggerated to me, that it's just some QCC3020 TWS without drivers, so why?



They are putting in a charging case and supposed aftermarket modular MMCX/2 pin swappable modules. But yes agreed, this doesn't justify a mega jack up of the price by almost 2 times! But I guess like most CHIFI gear, if u wait a few weeks after launch, prices are bound to drop.

I wonder how much they will sell the modular swappable modules, that has to be factored in on top of the $60ish USD for the main unit.


----------



## martiniCZ (Aug 14, 2020)

baskingshark said:


> They are putting in a charging case and supposed aftermarket modular MMCX/2 pin swappable modules. But yes agreed, this doesn't justify a mega jack up of the price by almost 2 times! But I guess like most CHIFI gear, if u wait a few weeks after launch, prices are bound to drop.
> 
> I wonder how much they will sell the modular swappable modules, that has to be factored in on top of the $60ish USD for the main unit.


To calm down, I bought this one instead for some my DIY 
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001285291076.html?spm=2114.12010612.8148356.69.58f62f2cXZTbpR

I spent $ 9 there for 5 different TWS


----------



## DB10

Caipirina said:


> Tronsmart Spunky Beats. Their AliExpress store has a vendor / distributor in Poland for EU folks, shipping took a week. I keep loving those (bought a spare set after my first one went 'missing')  and they have the most similar fit to the Anbes. They do a great job at passive isolation, they sound great, and they have AptX ...



Hi @Caipirina, thanks for your advice, I think that is also fine for my question about a budget pair for sport...


----------



## DigDub (Aug 14, 2020)

Caipirina said:


> Sorry if I missed it, but did you share your thoughts yet regarding SQ and ANC performance? I see the white panasonics on amazon warehouse for 128€ and that's a mild itch, especially since I still have to wait 10 days until I receive my GBeans ...


I do like the sound quality. The highs and mids are crisp and very well resolved without being bright or sibilant. Mids sounds just right in the mix. It's not overly bassy, bass comes on when the music calls for it, and when it hits, it hits hard and fast without being flabby. I would probably like a wider soundstage, but it's not bad, standard iem soundstage. Do note that the above impression is with the accoustune aet07 tips which emphasizes mids and highs. The Panasonic's sound signature does change quite a fair bit with different tips, I tried the spinfit cp350 and they sounded warmer. 

ANC is very good, I feel it's slightly better than the Sony and airpods pro. The ambient mode sounds loud at the highest setting, the external sound is unmistakeably from a mic so it's not as natural as say, the airpods. The sound signature and soundstage remains the same whether ANC or ambient are on or off, unlike the Sony and airpods where the sound signature and soundstage differs from the off mode. The Panasonic also does not have any hiss.


----------



## Caipirina (Aug 14, 2020)

DigDub said:


> I do like the sound quality. The highs and mids are crisp and very well resolved without being bright or sibilant. Mids sounds just right in the mix. It's not overly bassy, bass comes on when the music calls for it, and when it hits, it hits hard and fast without being flabby. I would probably like a wider soundstage, but it's not bad, standard iem soundstage. Do note that the above impression is with the accoustune aet07 tips which emphasizes mids and highs. The Panasonic's sound signature does change quite a fair bit with different tips, I tried the spinfit cp350 and they sounded warmer.
> 
> ANC is very good, I feel it's slightly better than the Sony and airpods pro. The ambient mode sounds loud at the highest setting, the external sound is unmistakeably from a mic so it's not as natural as say, the airpods. The sound signature and soundstage remains the same whether ANC or ambient are on or off, unlike the Sony and airpods where the sound signature and soundstage differs from the off mode. The Panasonic also does not have any hiss.


Argh ... so tempting! !!! ... I mean ... i could say I order these ... and then when the GBeans come I have to decide WHICH ONE TO KEEP ... (knowing me I might keep both  )

Thanks for taking the time ... now ... white or black ...

(and a few YT reviews later ... I am usually not a big fan of Flossy C, but he says those bump the xm3 from his personal top 3 ANC list .. so, at least I should give them a listen ... they shall arrive Monday! )


----------



## logiatype (Aug 14, 2020)

Looks like the HiBy WH3 is available to buy (unique ability to change the crossover between the BA and Dynamic driver).
https://moonstarreviews.net/hiby-wh3-tws-earphone-review/

Also got my Jaybird X4 for the office use. It's funny that they updated the BT bitpool from 2/37 (X3) to 2/53 (X4) - max Windows bitrate - but Samsung refuses to do it on its newest products


----------



## phaeton70

DigDub said:


> I do like the sound quality.



thanks for the feedbacks mate. these Pana are definitely in my radar. can I ask you where you bought them?


----------



## DigDub (Aug 14, 2020)

Caipirina said:


> Argh ... so tempting! !!! ... I mean ... i could say I order these ... and then when the GBeans come I have to decide WHICH ONE TO KEEP ... (knowing me I might keep both  )
> 
> Thanks for taking the time ... now ... white or black ...


I think the Panasonic will appeal to a wide variety of people, especially head-fiers, unless one is an extreme bass head. It doesn't really do anything wrong.

I'm was tempted by the beans too, but from impressions here so far, I think I probably won't like the mellow sound signature. Maybe I'll try to listen to them when they do get released in stores over in my country.


----------



## Aevum

N400 arrived

Pros - 
Sounds good, a bit bass heavy.
comfortable,

Cons,
ANC is next to worthless, 
gestures are weird, Volume control dosnt seem to work.


----------



## DigDub

phaeton70 said:


> thanks for the feedbacks mate. these Pana are definitely in my radar. can I ask you where you bought them?


Oh, I bought it from a local store in Singapore (Connect-IT).


----------



## phaeton70

tnks!


----------



## Caipirina

DigDub said:


> I think the Panasonic will appeal to a wide variety of people, especially head-fiers, unless one is an extreme bass head. It doesn't really do anything wrong.
> 
> I'm was tempted by the beans too, but from impressions here so far, I think I probably won't like the mellow sound signature. Maybe I'll try to listen to them when they do get released in stores over in my country.



(and a few YT reviews later ... I am usually not a big fan of Flossy C, but he says those bump the xm3 from his personal top 3 ANC list .. so, at least I should give them a listen ... they shall arrive Monday! )

As for them Beans, I can imagine that I like the sound, the shape, but maybe not so much the ANC ... i am curious if I feel like they fit secure enough for running, since I believe they will be thudless ...  maybe I end up with keeping the Panasonic, send back the Beans and buy them someday when they are on sale ... or when the Copy Artists in China have a decent version


----------



## hifi80sman

bronco1015 said:


> Unless you're banned? lol...Spoken like a true junkie. no judgement here though, i've contributed to plenty openbox sales myself.


I've actually slowed down quite a bit recently at Best Buy, as inventory of new items has been spotty.  There are some E8 3rd Gen available, but at $350, that's just a rip.  No ANC for that price either.  B&O has been having quarter-over-quarter losses which is likely due to their pricing strategy.  Why would I buy the H9 3rd Gen for $500 when there are way better options available for hundreds less?  Come on B&O, you can be premium without flat out price gouging (at least trying to, but failing).


----------



## Aevum

the n400 is worth every fu... penny. its amazing compared to the TWS i´ve tried so far.


----------



## Sam L

hifi80sman said:


> They have them at Best Buy.  Unless you’re banned, get them there. 🙂


heaheaeha... you implying you know "someone" who is banned from Best Buy?


----------



## logiatype

Aevum said:


> the n400 is worth every fu... penny. its amazing compared to the TWS i´ve tried so far.



Seems to be at the top of the pack for SQ. Really curious how it stacks up against the Technics model.


----------



## Sam L (Aug 14, 2020)

DigDub said:


> I think the Panasonic will appeal to a wide variety of people, especially head-fiers, unless one is an extreme bass head. It doesn't really do anything wrong.
> 
> I'm was tempted by the beans too, but from impressions here so far, I think I probably won't like the mellow sound signature. Maybe I'll try to listen to them when they do get released in stores over in my country.


more mellow-ish SQ, then mellow.

I watched 4 or 5 YouTube reviews on the beans and I think everyone is missing the point by implicitly comparing the beans to a variety of "in-ear" tws earphones or the galaxy buds plus. The SQ of the beans is very much akin to an earbud, which is sort of alluded to when most everyone describes them as apple airpod-like in fit. (the beans fit way better than airpods, by the way.) However, beans are way, way better sounding than airpods, not even remotely in the same league. It goes without saying, IEMs will sound more intimate and earbuds offer a spacious soundstage. The beans at first listen have a wide soundstage but not as much depth as I expect in a good many of my earbuds. (I'll have to spend more time with them to confirm my initial observations. I picked them up in SoCal as I was driving back to the SF Bay Area, so all my listening was in the car, driving.)

As many of you know, earbuds are different in how they present sound as compared to IEMs. Pretty much on the order of comparing IEMs to headphones, earbuds are fundamentally different from IEMs. Given all this, the bass on the beans is ridiculously phenomenal. There can be the perception of bloat because there's so much damn bass, even on the "normal" setting. Someone mentioned making sure to actually NOT try to establish a seal with the beans. I agree. I place them loosely in my ear and actually eq the bass down an additional 2dB.

As I mentioned in a previous post, if you think you're going to get ANC out of the beans, forget it. The call quality is superb, by the way. They do a great job of canceling out ambient noise during a call. They are right up there with the Apple Airpods Pro in call quality (though maybe a smidge under the APP.)


----------



## MadMike (Aug 14, 2020)

DigDub said:


> I do like the sound quality. The highs and mids are crisp and very well resolved without being bright or sibilant. Mids sounds just right in the mix. It's not overly bassy, bass comes on when the music calls for it, and when it hits, it hits hard and fast without being flabby. I would probably like a wider soundstage, but it's not bad, standard iem soundstage. Do note that the above impression is with the accoustune aet07 tips which emphasizes mids and highs. The Panasonic's sound signature does change quite a fair bit with different tips, I tried the spinfit cp350 and they sounded warmer.
> 
> ANC is very good, I feel it's slightly better than the Sony and airpods pro. The ambient mode sounds loud at the highest setting, the external sound is unmistakeably from a mic so it's not as natural as say, the airpods. The sound signature and soundstage remains the same whether ANC or ambient are on or off, unlike the Sony and airpods where the sound signature and soundstage differs from the off mode. The Panasonic also does not have any hiss.


DigDub's description of the sound and ANC characteristics dovetail with my experience with the S500s. I use the Xelastec M tips. I returned the XM3s. As I have noted, the S500s don't sound that dissimilar to my B&W P7 Wireless when volume matched, just can't get as loud and slightly less weight to the music. They're great for my intended use- exercise walking, travel (whenever that resumes), and casual listening. Mowing the lawn is a treat with these!


----------



## Caipirina

Aevum said:


> the n400 is worth every fu... penny. its amazing compared to the TWS i´ve tried so far.


Only 2h to overcome those Cons you listed 
Happy that you are happy!


----------



## bedlamite

logiatype said:


> Commuting with face masks really puts TWS from the "like to have category" into the "must have category".


Replying to this late but so true!

None of my fullsized ANC cans are getting any use now because masks ruin the seal.


----------



## DB10

Caipirina said:


> Tronsmart Spunky Beats. Their AliExpress store has a vendor / distributor in Poland for EU folks, shipping took a week. I keep loving those (bought a spare set after my first one went 'missing')  and they have the most similar fit to the Anbes. They do a great job at passive isolation, they sound great, and they have AptX ...



Hi!!! I was going to order them but as I want them to use while biking, I need something with *ambient mode*...any suggestions?


----------



## Aevum

the ANC is better then what i thougt, but still have a issue i can fix, the swipe gestures dont work.


----------



## assassin10000

DB10 said:


> Hi!!! I was going to order them but as I want them to use while biking, I need something with *ambient mode*...any suggestions?



Instead of ambient mode, go with non-isolating earbud type TWS. Better awareness and not unnatural sounding like all the 'ambient modes' I've heard (XM3 & Buds+).


Sabbat X12 Pro, Sabbat X12 Ultra or the new Samsung Buds Live.


----------



## Caipirina

assassin10000 said:


> Instead of ambient mode, go with non-isolating earbud type TWS. Better awareness and not unnatural sounding like all the 'ambient modes' I've heard (XM3 & Buds+).
> 
> 
> Sabbat X12 Pro, Sabbat X12 Ultra or the new Samsung Buds Live.



Here's another vote for the Sabbat X12  ... i think ambient mode & bike is not a good match because of wind noise being amplified 
There are a few tricks to get really good fit with the X12 ... i am using both, earbud foams and the wings that come with them ... use them for running A LOT


----------



## webvan

The X12 are great for running, when it's not windy, but they do pick up a lot of wind noise so are not great for biking. In any case it's dangerous (and illegal in some countries) to ride a bike with headphones so if you're in the boonies you might as well use isolating TWEs like the SiFi II


----------



## DB10

Aevum said:


> the n400 is worth every fu... penny. its amazing compared to the TWS i´ve tried so far.


Thanks! Still impossible to find them in Europe (Spain), thanks for your help.


----------



## DB10 (Aug 14, 2020)

Hi, thanks all, @assassin10000, @Caipirina, @webvan I would use them only while I am in the countryside with my bike, but I prefer listening the surrounding for precaution, sometimes there are dogs, some car...I had not thought about the wind amplification...

Thanks again, I will review both models, I had also thought about the Jabra 75t, quite expensive...


----------



## VICosPhi

So Sedna now has special Xelastec tips for Airpods. Any ideas if these will also work with other TWS?

https://www.amazon.com/AZLA-SednaEarfit-XELASTEC-Airpods-Pairs/dp/B08DTWG57P/


----------



## assassin10000 (Aug 14, 2020)

DB10 said:


> Hi, thanks all, @assassin10000, @Caipirina, @webvan I would use them only while I am in the countryside with my bike, but I prefer listening the surrounding for precaution, sometimes there are dogs, some car...I had not thought about the wind amplification...
> 
> Thanks again, I will review both models, I had also thought about the Jabra 75t, quite expensive...



The X12 pro, x12 ultra or Buds Live would not amplify wind noise, they do not seal. If there is wind noise, it would be from going over/around the TWS & your ears. 

Not from microphone pickup like other TWS with ambient modes would. Wind noise can be pretty bad on those.




VICosPhi said:


> So Sedna now has special Xelastec tips for Airpods. Any ideas if these will also work with other TWS?
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/AZLA-SednaEarfit-XELASTEC-Airpods-Pairs/dp/B08DTWG57P/



If they are like other aftermarket airpod pro tips and can be removed from the adapter, then I see no reason why they would not possibly fit other TWS that need a short internal stem.


Like these foam APP tips I bought and removed the stem from to use on other IEM/TWS:





If anyone wants a pair of these adapters in the U.S. I have an extra pair left, pm me (has no foam tip). Lets you use other standard tips on the APP.


----------



## Shadowclash10 (Aug 19, 2020)

Alright... I know I said I was gonna post my impressions of my Enacfire E60s quite a while ago.... sorry about that , but I haven't been able to get a seal with the E60s, so I couldn't speak to it's SQ, isolation, etc. and I didn;t want to post impressions without those critical aspects. However, after ~2 weeks now, I still haven't been able to get a seal. The reason for this I think is the size of the stock tips - even the largest is ridicolously small compared to "normal" sized tips - and larger tips generally won't fit the E60s, and none will fit the case. So I've given up on the E60s - returning them soon . At least Amazon is totally fine with returns. That being said, considering that Scarbir was fine with these, and Amazon reviews give these a suprisingly amazing 4.8 stars (and 6,633 reviews, to boot!), this is probably just my ears - if you know earbuds with very tiny tips fit you, or you just wanna see how these go, why not!

*Impressions:

Packaging -* Packaging was pretty decent - the theme and box was very similar to Creative's packaging, with the orange-on-white theme. Presentation was fine, nothing to critisize and nothing to write home about either.
It came with the case and earbuds, a tray with 4 pairs of tips, certificate slip, instructions, and short type-C charging cable. Type C was one of the reasons why I was going for this, and not some other models. Actually, at first, I wasn’t able to find  the cable, until I realized that it was under the certification slip .

*Design - *The case is extremely tiny, but it is relatively thick - bummer . I was able to slide these into my jeans with only minor discomfort - but keep in mind that i have pretty big and stretchy jeans - ymmv. I think it would have been better if they had made the case longer/wider, but thinner, in order to make it more pocketable. The case has some branding: "ENACFIRE" and their logo on it. Under the lid are 4 LEDS, for displaying case battery life. They turn on for a little bit to show you the case's battery life once you open the case. The earbuds themseves each have an LED light on them - it lights up differently depending on whether you just took them out of the box, or if they are searching for the source device, etc. The only markings on the earbuds are "L" and "R". They have touch panels, not buttons. The touch controls were a bit on the sensitive side, and there was a noticible delay between you tapping to play/pause and the source device actually playing/pausing. They do have full controls (play/pause, skip/go back, volume) and you can actually power them off without having to put them back in the case (which is nice I guess if you want to just wear them for isolation).






*Pairing and Connections -* Pairing was easy, and after the initial manual connection, they reconnect to your last device once you take the buds out of the case. I had no dropouts, but bear in mind that I wasn’t able to test them outside, or in a crowded place with many signals. If anyone wants, I can try to replicate a crowded environment - at home, by having various devices stream BT audio, do stuff over wifi, etc. in a tight space, I suppose? I couldn’t test aptX, cause I don’t have any devices capable of aptX right now (until I possibly get a DAP, my current portable source is an iPhone, not an Android ). I was able to watch videos fine - little to no lag. You can use either earbud in mono mode. However, you can't just instantly pull one out of the case - at first, only the left one can be used in mono - to use the other earbud, you need to go through another pairing process to make it the master earbud.

*Battery -* Battery life for the earbuds was ~7 hours, and the case was able to recharge them a few times, close enough to the 40 hour mark (which is the battery expected with the earbuds). Respectable, and close enough to Enacfire’s claims of 8 hours for the buds and 40 hours total. Do note that there isn't any fast charging - like you see on similarly priced competitors like the Fiil T1Xs, or the Bomaker SIFI IIs.

*Mic **- *Mmmm, the mic wasn't too great. Noticabley worse than my phone's mic. I wouldn't every want to use these for working-from-home, or anything like that, although if you are taking a casual, short phone call, then maybe. Even though they have Qualcomm CVC 8.0 (for those of us who don't know what this is, it is basically Qualcomm noice cancellation for *the microphone, during calls* - it is *not* ANC - though some brands will mislead buyers by saying their earbuds have "environmental noise cancellation"), they do a poor job filtering out background noise. 

*Comfort, Isolation, and Sound quality -* Isolation was great - even though I couldn't get a seal! This is the elephant in the room - at least for me. You can probably tell from my pictures, but the included tips are VERY tiny. I have medium sized ears, and the E60s, equipped with the largest tips, just fall out of my ears. Other earbuds, with "normal" tips, fit me just fine - but these tiny things? No way. They are COMPLETELY unusable for me. 1 second after jamming them into my ears, they fall out. 99% sure I have them in right, so... But back to isolation. Like I said, even without these actually providing me with a seal, they isolate AMAZINGLY. Actually, that is probably their biggest pro. I could barely hear anything, again, without a actual seal (yeah, I'm really flabbergasted about this one ). They aren't so great comfort-wise - I can really feel them digging in to my ear (likely because of the small and thin tips). Okay, on to sound. Bass response is _nearly immaculate_. They nailed this part. Bass isn't very tight, but it doesn't bleed over. The bass on this is engaging, but not too engaging. The only reason why I didn't say perfect is just because I've heard other buds with bass that I liked more (only a very few though). *However, *they get annoyngly harsh with vocals. Extremely close to being a dealbreaker.

*Summary:
Pros:
  Respectable battery life
  Full controls
  VERY good isolation
  VERY good bass
  Case is tiny length-wise
  No dropouts, no lag, quick connection
  Can be used in mono

Cons:
  Pretty bad mic
  Case is a bit thick
  Noticeable delay for source to register controls
  Harsh vocals
  May have trouble getting a seal if your ears are > small*

I'd say that at $50, you have much better options. Even when they get frequently discounted to $35, you should stay away. You might not care about the mic, case thickness, etc. but the seal and the harsh vocals are pretty bad cons.



EDIT: Whoopsie! How could I forget to add pictures  ! Sorry everyone! (I had actually taken the pictures before this post, I just forgot to add them).


----------



## Shadowclash10

assassin10000 said:


> The X12 pro, x12 ultra or Buds Live would not amplify wind noise, they do not seal. If there is wind noise, it would be from going over/around the TWS & your ears.
> 
> Not from microphone pickup like other TWS with ambient modes would. Wind noise can be pretty bad on those.
> 
> ...


The downside to the X12/Ultra and the Buds Live is that because they don't have a seal, they could fall out while biking?


----------



## Shadowclash10

VICosPhi said:


> Verizon has the Galaxy Buds+ for $99. You have to add to cart to see the discounted price
> https://www.verizon.com/products/samsung-galaxy-buds-plus-wireless-earbuds/


Mine should arrive soon, thanks for the deal post!

BTW how did you figure that out, before all the tech outlets figured it out? CNET found this out basically a day and a half after you?! I don't think most of us generally have a habit of adding the Buds + to our Verizon cart to see if the are discounted . You must be a wizard...


----------



## TK33 (Aug 15, 2020)

Shadowclash10 said:


> The downside to the X12/Ultra and the Buds Live is that because they don't have a seal, they could fall out while biking?


The Buds Live actually feels very secure to me. I have had my in-ears like my MW07 Go and MTW get dislodged and fall out before from getting sweaty or while eating.  I had to go up a size for tips as a result (sacrificing some comfort).  Buds Live fits me very well but I can see that being hit or miss since there are really only two sizes and no tips. Unfortunately, you won't really know until you try it yourself.


----------



## VICosPhi

Shadowclash10 said:


> Mine should arrive soon, thanks for the deal post!
> 
> BTW how did you figure that out, before all the tech outlets figured it out? CNET found this out basically a day and a half after you?! I don't think most of us generally have a habit of adding the Buds + to our Verizon cart to see if the are discounted . You must be a wizard...


Glad you were able to snag one! The wizard secret is the site called techbargains . I was searching for a deal on the Technics TWS and Buds+ popped up there.


----------



## emusic13

So hard to pick one  On the fence between Nuarl N6pro, Aviot te-bd21f, and Advance m5 TWS. If only the Advanced had more reviews. I'm skeptical of the one review comparing it to Focal Elears


----------



## gibletzor

Got my Galaxy Buds Live today.  Have to work 36 hours this weekend so I won't have much time to test them other than at my PC.  I told myself I was going to wait until they went on sale, but I couldn't resist.


----------



## chinmie

Shadowclash10 said:


> The downside to the X12/Ultra and the Buds Live is that because they don't have a seal, they could fall out while biking?



the X12 has those wings for more secure fit.. i don't see it would fall off for biking or running. i haven't test them for light sparring though


----------



## Shadowclash10

sarv said:


> Any news on xm4, I maybe be able to make due with APP for a while if that's the case.. thx for your message tho


Haven't found any info/rumors on them, either . I was thinking that they are overdue for an update. The fact that the XM3s have ben discounted to $178 makes me think that the XM4s should be out soon, too. I think the hype is centered alot around the WH-1000XM4s (the over-ears).


----------



## bronco1015

hifi80sman said:


> I've actually slowed down quite a bit recently at Best Buy, as inventory of new items has been spotty.  There are some E8 3rd Gen available, but at $350, that's just a rip.  No ANC for that price either.  B&O has been having quarter-over-quarter losses which is likely due to their pricing strategy.  Why would I buy the H9 3rd Gen for $500 when there are way better options available for hundreds less?  Come on B&O, you can be premium without flat out price gouging (at least trying to, but failing).


Yeah i just don't understand why they think they'll get good sales from selling at some of the prices they do. Dang...thinking about buying those technics again or maybe the panasonic RZ-500 as it's $150.


----------



## VICosPhi

bronco1015 said:


> Yeah i just don't understand why they think they'll get good sales from selling at some of the prices they do. Dang...thinking about buying those technics again or maybe the panasonic RZ-500 as it's $150.


Technics are going at $199 discounted price currently. I really like the Bang and Olufsen H9i. They're the best looking headphones imo and the sound is excellent even with AAC and my Android phone. I liked them better than 1000XM2, Bose and Bowers & Wilkins. I really wanted to give E8 v3 a try but no ANC, no customizable controls and hefty $$$ price are a deal breaker. I'd buy those for $220. Amazon has them for $280 right now, maybe they will be discounted further since many people feel the same way about the $$$ price of the B&O's. Sadly the Corona virus has put B&O in a tough financial position. 

Hopefully they stay adjust their pricing to more realistic/competitive model and remain in business for years to come.


----------



## gibletzor (Aug 15, 2020)

gibletzor said:


> Got my Galaxy Buds Live today.  Have to work 36 hours this weekend so I won't have much time to test them other than at my PC.  I told myself I was going to wait until they went on sale, but I couldn't resist.


So a couple observations from my first night with the GBuds Live.  First, I work in a manufacturing plant in an office that is pretty close to the machinery.  The ANC definitely kills the background drone and rumble of the machines, but not the higher pitched hissing of hydraulics and such.  It's actually a lot more effective than I thought it would be with the open design.  Disclaimer, I have very little experience with other ANC headphones, so take my observations there with a grain of salt.
Second, the sound is fantastic for watching Netflix and Youtube.  Voices are exceptionally clear, and the background music sounds great to keep the atmosphere of the show as intended.  I haven't listened to much music yet, but so far I'm very happy!

Also, I almost forgot I had them in after I got them seated right.  Kind of a pain to figure out the correct place to put them, but I'm sure that will become natural with more time.


----------



## sarv

Shadowclash10 said:


> Haven't found any info/rumors on them, either . I was thinking that they are overdue for an update. The fact that the XM3s have ben discounted to $178 makes me think that the XM4s should be out soon, too. I think the hype is centered alot around the WH-1000XM4s (the over-ears).


Yeah I was thinking they were gonna update them same time as headphones. We're probably looking at end of this year for those now


----------



## sarv

I'm about to buy the Apollo's, just wanna confirm, that they don't have any hissing noice or statics while using them, anyone willing to chime in?


----------



## phaeton70

no hissing or statics in my pair  
and I must add, my previous comment about being too bassy is no more true. these things need some days, but the mids and highs has opened up very nicely, and now I'm using my Apollo with no eq!!


----------



## DB10

assassin10000 said:


> The X12 pro, x12 ultra or Buds Live would not amplify wind noise, they do not seal. If there is wind noise, it would be from going over/around the TWS & your ears.
> 
> Not from microphone pickup like other TWS with ambient modes would. Wind noise can be pretty bad on those.
> 
> ...





chinmie said:


> the X12 has those wings for more secure fit.. i don't see it would fall off for biking or running. i haven't test them for light sparring though




Hi, thanks, I think that I will try the X12, if I find them in Spain...Galaxy Buds live seems to be excelent but they are a bit out of my budget....too expensive for me now.

Thanks again!!!


----------



## Caipirina (Aug 15, 2020)

DB10 said:


> Hi, thanks, I think that I will try the X12, if I find them in Spain...Galaxy Buds live seems to be excelent but they are a bit out of my budget....too expensive for me now.
> 
> Thanks again!!!


amazon.es 






and I posted a pic a while back in THIS POST that gives a better idea about the wings (included) and I added earbud foams (not included) ... i find they tame the whole sound just a little bit (and the buds still fit into the case) ... i remember someone else used a holepunch to cut openings into the foam for unfiltered sound


----------



## regancipher

Caipirina said:


> Here's another vote for the Sabbat X12  ... i think ambient mode & bike is not a good match because of wind noise being amplified
> There are a few tricks to get really good fit with the X12 ... i am using both, earbud foams and the wings that come with them ... use them for running A LOT


This was my problem with the x12, I know the sound is great when I push them in my ears, I just simply can't get them to stay whatever tip I use. Frustrating!


----------



## hmscott

hmscott said:


> Although I wouldn't recommend the KZ S2's to just anyone, or everyone, I'm really enjoying them the more I use them.
> 
> The KZ S2's are persnickety in their BT usage - even stable usage gets "glitches" at times - but if you don't panic you can ride it out and they'll "come back", or require 8 second hold the touch on both to reset and re-bind to my device - required less and less often btw.
> 
> ...


Good news, the Windows 10 2004 + Intel Wifi / BT updates got rid of the KZ S2 connectivity issues for me.  I've been listening for hours and not a single BT hitch, whereas before there always were BT glitches over a long listening session.

More details here:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/knowledge-zenith-kz-impressions-thread.698148/post-15804789


----------



## sarv

phaeton70 said:


> no hissing or statics in my pair
> and I must add, my previous comment about being too bassy is no more true. these things need some days, but the mids and highs has opened up very nicely, and now I'm using my Apollo with no eq!!


Yeah I saw the post about bass, I am a basshead so that's good, what do you think of the ANC on these?


----------



## Sam L (Aug 15, 2020)

gibletzor said:


> So a couple observations from my first night with the GBuds Live.  First, I work in a manufacturing plant in an office that is pretty close to the machinery.  The ANC definitely kills the background drone and rumble of the machines, but not the higher pitched hissing of hydraulics and such.  It's actually a lot more effective than I thought it would be with the open design.  Disclaimer, I have very little experience with other ANC headphones, so take my observations there with a grain of salt.
> Second, the sound is fantastic for watching Netflix and Youtube.  Voices are exceptionally clear, and the background music sounds great to keep the atmosphere of the show as intended.  I haven't listened to much music yet, but so far I'm very happy!
> 
> Also, I almost forgot I had them in after I got them seated right.  Kind of a pain to figure out the correct place to put them, but I'm sure that will become natural with more time.


I agree re: the ANC, even though I've mentioned a couple times that they are kind of useless. There is a use case where the reduction is very noticeable, but even then I'm not sure that positively affects quality of life meaningfully. In your case, I can see how being around the droning noise can be significant. And yet, I can't help but wonder would we all rather have the bud lives come in $40 cheaper with out the ANC? If they never shipped with ANC, I would not miss or lament that feature on the buds live.

Sound quality is great, as you noted.


----------



## TK33

gibletzor said:


> So a couple observations from my first night with the GBuds Live.  First, I work in a manufacturing plant in an office that is pretty close to the machinery.  The ANC definitely kills the background drone and rumble of the machines, but not the higher pitched hissing of hydraulics and such.  It's actually a lot more effective than I thought it would be with the open design.  Disclaimer, I have very little experience with other ANC headphones, so take my observations there with a grain of salt.
> Second, the sound is fantastic for watching Netflix and Youtube.  Voices are exceptionally clear, and the background music sounds great to keep the atmosphere of the show as intended.  I haven't listened to much music yet, but so far I'm very happy!
> 
> Also, I almost forgot I had them in after I got them seated right.  Kind of a pain to figure out the correct place to put them, but I'm sure that will become natural with more time.



I noticed the same with ANC...it blocks the lower end noises from my PTAC unit that I sit next to all day.  I do prefer the sound with ANC off but I think that is mostly a dislike for ANC in general (get headaches from the "preessure" although not as bad as full size cans since it seems pretty weak).  I was surprised at how effective it was in blocking out my air conditioner but I can still hear my wife and son now so they dont get as annoyed with me when I dont respond.


----------



## phaeton70

sarv said:


> Yeah I saw the post about bass, I am a basshead so that's good, what do you think of the ANC on these?



I think it's very good, works very well for me


----------



## webvan (Aug 15, 2020)

ssouthall6 said:


> This was my problem with the x12, I know the sound is great when I push them in my ears, I just simply can't get them to stay whatever tip I use. Frustrating!



Tips ? Other than putting Airpod trimmed silicone sleeves like some of us have tried (didn't keep them, they messed up the fit) can't see what you could do? I've been running with them for 18 months (with foam covers most of the time) and never have they threatened to fall out and they don't need a seal so they don't need a precise fit.


----------



## bronco1015

VICosPhi said:


> Technics are going at $199 discounted price currently. I really like the Bang and Olufsen H9i. They're the best looking headphones imo and the sound is excellent even with AAC and my Android phone. I liked them better than 1000XM2, Bose and Bowers & Wilkins. I really wanted to give E8 v3 a try but no ANC, no customizable controls and hefty $$$ price are a deal breaker. I'd buy those for $220. Amazon has them for $280 right now, maybe they will be discounted further since many people feel the same way about the $$$ price of the B&O's. Sadly the Corona virus has put B&O in a tough financial position.
> 
> Hopefully they stay adjust their pricing to more realistic/competitive model and remain in business for years to come.


I love the attention to detail B&O brings to the table. I looked really hard at those h9I headphones each update to them. I'm not surprised they sound better than the models you mention, which B &w pair do you compare them with? i've only ever owned the PX7. it has great ANC, but i prefer the sound of my Aonic 50, NAD HP70 and Sennheiser Momentum 3.
regarding the E8 V3, i would totally buy those for $220.


----------



## Caipirina

webvan said:


> Tips ? Other than putting Airpod trimmed silicone sleeves like some of us have tried (didn't keep them, they messed up the fit) can't see what you could do? I've been running with them for 18 months (with foam covers most of the time) and never have they threatened to fall out and they don't need a seal so they don't need a precise fit.


Maybe he means E12? I used to confuse them all the time.


----------



## jant71

Listed on Drop already...
https://drop.com/buy/trn-bt20s-pro-...ontent=1597472882661.191425161926343703931389
Also saw it on Ali express. BUUUUT...What! Both times it makes you choose MMCX, .75mm two pin, or .78mm two pin. Stupid. Where is the MMCX and two pin of your choice option. We don't want replaceable just because of damage. We want to swap out to use with both types of connectors. Really not gonna include both an MMCX and two-pin?


----------



## Shadowclash10

jant71 said:


> Listed on Drop already...
> https://drop.com/buy/trn-bt20s-pro-bluetooth-5-0-module-adapter?utm_placement=1&referer=PTXLP7&mode=guest_open&utm_campaign=Automated Daily Promotional 2020-08-15&utm_source=SparkPost&utm_medium=email&utm_term=Daily Promotional&utm_content=1597472882661.191425161926343703931389
> Also saw it on Ali express. BUUUUT...What! Both times it makes you choose MMCX, .75mm two pin, or .78mm two pin. Stupid. Where is the MMCX and two pin of your choice option. We don't want replaceable just because of damage. We want to swap out to use with both types of connectors. Really not gonna include both an MMCX and two-pin?


Yeah, I got an email from Drop about them.

ALao looks like the Sabbat Vooplays are on Drop, now, too.


----------



## jant71

Also was a Gamesky video pretty quick as well... 
 Sabbat getting around quick now they have street cred!


----------



## DB10

Caipirina said:


> amazon.es
> 
> 
> 
> and I posted a pic a while back in THIS POST that gives a better idea about the wings (included) and I added earbud foams (not included) ... i find they tame the whole sound just a little bit (and the buds still fit into the case) ... i remember someone else used a holepunch to cut openings into the foam for unfiltered sound


Hi, thanks again for all @Caipirina, you have a "Master Degree in TWS" haha.

I will order the Pro version and I will tell you my impressions as soon as I receive them.

All the best!!!


----------



## regancipher

Caipirina said:


> Maybe he means E12? I used to confuse them all the time.


Haha that's exactly what I meant


----------



## Caipirina

jant71 said:


> Also was a Gamesky video pretty quick as well...
> Sabbat getting around quick now they have street cred!



For a second I was very excited to already see them on amazon.de for 60€ .... then I noticed the date range of 'arrives' ...


----------



## jant71

Amazon US...



Beat us


----------



## VICosPhi

bronco1015 said:


> I love the attention to detail B&O brings to the table. I looked really hard at those h9I headphones each update to them. I'm not surprised they sound better than the models you mention, which B &w pair do you compare them with? i've only ever owned the PX7. it has great ANC, but i prefer the sound of my Aonic 50, NAD HP70 and Sennheiser Momentum 3.
> regarding the E8 V3, i would totally buy those for $220.


Yeah B&O design always looks very classy! I compared with PX5 and H9i provided a lot more energetic sound. The only issue with my H9i is its headband can make my head hurt if I wear it more than 2 hours. Supposedly H9 3rd gen(also has APTX) has this issue fixed. I am just surprised how well AAC sounds on my H9i. I will probably get the next model if they release one as a successor to H9 3rd gen.


----------



## AudioNoob (Aug 15, 2020)

sarv said:


> I'm about to buy the Apollo's, just wanna confirm, that they don't have any hissing noice or statics while using them, anyone willing to chime in?


Mine are pretty quiet. I recommend third party tips for a good seal for more passive isolation. Sednas would probably work well, im using final e tips. Spunky beats on the other hand have hiss galore and crunchy driver flex


----------



## sponsor (Aug 15, 2020)

sarv said:


> I'm about to buy the Apollo's, just wanna confirm, that they don't have any hissing noice or statics while using them, anyone willing to chime in?



Got my pair today, and took them to the beach for a quick test. No hissing or static noise at all.
Quick impressions: The sound is bassy, I am not a basshead so it was pretty boomy, but either it's my ears or the driver settling in, it toned down a bit by the end of the day. ANC is pretty good from what I expected. It won't do any magic, but it did block out the rumble from the bus engine pretty well on my commute. Basically if you are listening to music + have ANC on, it'll block almost 95% of the sound no matter the conditions. Just ANC on with no music does eliminate low level constant noises, but won't do much for people talking or general sounds, but that's for almost every ANC on the market. Mics were good from what other person said from the call, and they lasted whole day without them putting in the case for charging.
I did put the spiral dots tips, as the default tips were a bit loose for me, so they do create a good seal.
Till now, I am highly impressed by the package at the price they come in.


Spoiler


----------



## regancipher

sarv said:


> Yeah I saw the post about bass, I am a basshead so that's good, what do you think of the ANC on these?



ANC is really good and no hissing.

Best ANC I've experienced in TWS, and unusual as well. In fact, behaves very similar to the way the Avantree Aria Pro do. Seems to be marginally better at cancelling low frequencies, usually in my experience it's the other way around (my Sony and Taotronics were great at knocking out the high frequencies but not so good at low rumbles)


----------



## assassin10000

Caipirina said:


> i remember someone else used a holepunch to cut openings into the foam for unfiltered sound



Hi.

This pic has a 4mm punch but I've since switched to a 3mm one.


----------



## soullinker20

my technics has arrived but is still at the warehouse and would have to wait 'til monday because our place is under ecq


----------



## mikp

so, how is the seal, waterproofing and ambient function on the apollo? Thinking of replacing the jabra 65 for hikes, and would not want to use the mtw2.


----------



## regancipher

mikp said:


> so, how is the seal, waterproofing and ambient function on the apollo? Thinking of replacing the jabra 65 for hikes, and would not want to use the mtw2.


Ambient is great 
Seal is pretty good, I found them to be a little uncomfortable with foam tips so open to suggestions
Waterproofing I think is IP45, so I wouldn't shower with them, but they should be OK for hikes


----------



## gibletzor

Sam L said:


> I agree re: the ANC, even though I've mentioned a couple times that they are kind of useless. There is a use case where the reduction is very noticeable, but even then I'm not sure that positively affects quality of life meaningfully. In your case, I can see how being around the droning noise can be significant. And yet, I can't help but wonder would we all rather have the bud lives come in $40 cheaper with out the ANC? If they never shipped with ANC, I would not miss or lament that feature on the buds live.
> 
> Sound quality is great, as you noted.


Yeah I don't think the ANC would be terribly missed, although I can see it being more useful for someone with a train/subway/bus commute to block out the low end vehicle noise.  Personally, I spend most of my time at work with only 1 earbud in so I can hear the phone and door knocking better.  The ANC doesn't even work with only 1 in.


----------



## mikp

ssouthall6 said:


> Ambient is great
> Seal is pretty good, I found them to be a little uncomfortable with foam tips so open to suggestions
> Waterproofing I think is IP45, so I wouldn't shower with them, but they should be OK for hikes



thanks, have you tested with other tips? I have a bunch of spinfits but the tip seems oval on the apollo. Never really liked the sound of the 65, but only used them with ambient for 2 years now.

For me the mtw2 is the best,- but not using those on sweaty walks..


----------



## AudioNoob

mikp said:


> thanks, have you tested with other tips? I have a bunch of spinfits but the tip seems oval on the apollo. Never really liked the sound of the 65, but only used them with ambient for 2 years now.
> 
> For me the mtw2 is the best,- but not using those on sweaty walks..


They are pretty thud-y for me while walking, for what its worth.


----------



## mikp

AudioNoob said:


> They are pretty thud-y for me while walking, for what its worth.


thanks, that does not sound good.


----------



## jasonb

I just picked up the Galaxy Beans (buds live) from my local best buy. To me they sound best on the treble boost setting, and then adding back a touch of bass with the Wavelet Android EQ app. In the normal EQ setting they have waaaay too much bass for me. The clear EQ setting is better, but the treble boost seems the best to me with the small bass boost in the Wavelet app. They are a unique earbud for sure. The ANC does do something, but it's obviously not comparable to my WF1000xm3, and it's not meant to be. These are kind of like listening to an open back headphone which is kind of cool. 

Am wondering if we'll ever see measurements of these or if that is even possible since they don't have a tip and make a seal.


----------



## voicemaster

jasonb said:


> I just picked up the Galaxy Beans (buds live) from my local best buy. To me they sound best on the treble boost setting, and then adding back a touch of bass with the Wavelet Android EQ app. In the normal EQ setting they have waaaay too much bass for me. The clear EQ setting is better, but the treble boost seems the best to me with the small bass boost in the Wavelet app. They are a unique earbud for sure. The ANC does do something, but it's obviously not comparable to my WF1000xm3, and it's not meant to be. These are kind of like listening to an open back headphone which is kind of cool.
> 
> Am wondering if we'll ever see measurements of these or if that is even possible since they don't have a tip and make a seal.


The bass will toned down after awhile. I did the same thing at first tho I used the Clear EQ setting then now just use normal EQ. You can also play with the fit and adjust how the beans sit in your ears. My best sounding fit is just let it sit without pushing it further down my ear. If I want more bass, I can just push it further into my ear canal.


----------



## jasonb (Aug 15, 2020)

voicemaster said:


> The bass will toned down after awhile. I did the same thing at first tho I used the Clear EQ setting then now just use normal EQ. You can also play with the fit and adjust how the beans sit in your ears. My best sounding fit is just let it sit without pushing it further down my ear. If I want more bass, I can just push it further into my ear canal.




I understand what you're saying and what bugs me about the fit is the inconsistency. It's definitely not as consistent as something that has silicone or foam tips than go into your ear canal. What bugs me about the beans is wondering whether both are inserted the same and I'm getting the same sound on each side, and the same sound each time I put them in. 

I don't see the bass taming down enough for me to like them on the normal EQ setting. Even the clear setting has too much bass for my tastes. I'm just not a bass head in the slightest, and prefer lots of clarity instead of lots of warmth. 

Switching back to my EQ'ed WF1000xm3 things sound the way I want them to and have much more clarity. Not sure the dynamics and clarity are going to be good enough on the beans for me to keep them. I liked the whole idea of the open design and lack of isolation when I want that, but even with the design they have and the ANC off even my voice sounds different to me and not at all like an open back full size headphone. 

I'll give them more of a chance in the coming days, but idk.

Edit: listening to some of the songs I use to test for treble resolution or clarity or detail or whatever you want to call it, and on the XM3's it's about as good as it gets, and on the Beans the clarity and resolution just isn't there. It's sort of the same problem I had with the original Galaxy Buds, and idk if it's a Bluetooth thing or what, but the XM3 on the same AAC codec just doesn't sound bad at all.


----------



## baskingshark

jant71 said:


> Listed on Drop already...
> https://drop.com/buy/trn-bt20s-pro-bluetooth-5-0-module-adapter?utm_placement=1&referer=PTXLP7&mode=guest_open&utm_campaign=Automated Daily Promotional 2020-08-15&utm_source=SparkPost&utm_medium=email&utm_term=Daily Promotional&utm_content=1597472882661.191425161926343703931389
> Also saw it on Ali express. BUUUUT...What! Both times it makes you choose MMCX, .75mm two pin, or .78mm two pin. Stupid. Where is the MMCX and two pin of your choice option. We don't want replaceable just because of damage. We want to swap out to use with both types of connectors. Really not gonna include both an MMCX and two-pin?



Wow seems cheaper on DROP than Aliexpress even. Yeah but big bummer they ain't selling the modules separately currently. That's the whole point of this design right?

I've never bought from DROP, so any of you guys know how is the DROP return policies/refunds if a product is defective? I've not the greatest trust in TRN QC from my past experiences, so just to cover bases that we might need to contact CS for QC problems down the line.


----------



## gibletzor

jasonb said:


> I just picked up the Galaxy Beans (buds live) from my local best buy. To me they sound best on the treble boost setting, and then adding back a touch of bass with the Wavelet Android EQ app. In the normal EQ setting they have waaaay too much bass for me. The clear EQ setting is better, but the treble boost seems the best to me with the small bass boost in the Wavelet app. They are a unique earbud for sure. The ANC does do something, but it's obviously not comparable to my WF1000xm3, and it's not meant to be. These are kind of like listening to an open back headphone which is kind of cool.
> 
> Am wondering if we'll ever see measurements of these or if that is even possible since they don't have a tip and make a seal.


Actually that is a pretty good comparison to open back headphones.  These do kinda remind me of my AKG K702s sound wise.  Obviously not of the same fidelity, but the overall sound signature is similar.  Little warm with good sounding but not powerful bass, great highs and a little subdued in the mids.  Makes sense I guess since AKG is part of Samsung and designed the Beans for them.


----------



## jasonb (Aug 15, 2020)

gibletzor said:


> Actually that is a pretty good comparison to open back headphones.  These do kinda remind me of my AKG K702s sound wise.  Obviously not of the same fidelity, but the overall sound signature is similar.  Little warm with good sounding but not powerful bass, great highs and a little subdued in the mids.  Makes sense I guess since AKG is part of Samsung and designed the Beans for them.



I'm not hearing them like a K702 at all. To me these are bass monsters even on the clear EQ setting. I have an AKG Q701, and a bass modded one at that and the beans have way more bass than those. Maybe it's the way they fit my ears.

Maybe they are making more of a seal than they should be with my ear canal.


----------



## go0gle

$30 off lp2 on their website


----------



## voicemaster (Aug 15, 2020)

jasonb said:


> I'm not hearing them like a K702 at all. To me these are bass monsters even on the clear EQ setting. I have an AKG Q701, and a bass modded one at that and the beans have way more bass than those. Maybe it's the way they fit my ears.
> 
> Maybe they are making more of a seal than they should be with my ear canal.


Well the sound change with the fit, so its kinda tricky to explain because every person's ear is different. I too was disappointed when I first listened to the beans. The bass is so strong and not the deep bass also but more of a mid bass bloat. But I kept listening to it while burning it in. I have use exclusively the beans for the pass week whether at home or outside and true enough the sound changed for the better, at least for me.
Oh and you don't want to create a seal actually with this beans. As I've been saying over and over again, seal is not good with the beans. It will sound bloated as hell. Even if you pushed it even further to your ears, it doesn't block any more noise than it could. It will feel awkward because even a regular open earbuds and aipods need a little bit of seal, but not with the beans.


----------



## TK33

jasonb said:


> I just picked up the Galaxy Beans (buds live) from my local best buy. To me they sound best on the treble boost setting, and then adding back a touch of bass with the Wavelet Android EQ app. In the normal EQ setting they have waaaay too much bass for me. The clear EQ setting is better, but the treble boost seems the best to me with the small bass boost in the Wavelet app. They are a unique earbud for sure. The ANC does do something, but it's obviously not comparable to my WF1000xm3, and it's not meant to be. These are kind of like listening to an open back headphone which is kind of cool.
> 
> Am wondering if we'll ever see measurements of these or if that is even possible since they don't have a tip and make a seal.



I has the same reaction (a few pages ago) and preferred the Treble Boost setting for the first few days. A few days ago,  the Galaxy Buds Live started sounding a bit thin to me so I tried.a combination of various settings and found the Clear setting no longer sounded as congested to me as it first did.  Now I prefer the Clear setting. Normal still has way too much bass for me. At its price point, I don't expect it to be the best in SQ but I was definitely pleasantly surprised.  I would give it a few days and see what you think.  

I am on a trip and my MW07 Go, Galaxy Buds Live and SE846 made it into my bag...i don't see the MW07 Go getting much use to be honest unless i am out in the rain or something.  I am really enjoying the convenience of the open design and great call quality.  Music is very enjoyable as well.


----------



## gibletzor

jasonb said:


> I'm not hearing them like a K702 at all. To me these are bass monsters even on the clear EQ setting. I have an AKG Q701, and a bass modded one at that and the beans have way more bass than those. Maybe it's the way they fit my ears.
> 
> Maybe they are making more of a seal than they should be with my ear canal.


I can see consistency of fit being an issue when trying to compare these to other earbuds.  I don't think they're going to fit and sound exactly the same to anyone at all, even more so than in-ears.


----------



## voicemaster

gibletzor said:


> I can see consistency of fit being an issue when trying to compare these to other earbuds.  I don't think they're going to fit and sound exactly the same to anyone at all, even more so than in-ears.


Yes, with regular IEM, you can tip rolling or change to foamies which almost always fix the fit (in my experience), but with the beans it is so freaking different. When you create a seal, it sounds bloated where most IEM will sounds better when you get a seal. Even an airpods needs a "seal" to have better bass perfomance.


----------



## jasonb

gibletzor said:


> I can see consistency of fit being an issue when trying to compare these to other earbuds.  I don't think they're going to fit and sound exactly the same to anyone at all, even more so than in-ears.



With a little more playing around I realized that the "relieve pressure with ambient sound" setting totally kills the sound quality too. Turning that off and turning ANC off these are sounding a bit better with just the clear setting and no other EQ. I also put them into my ears and just let them "fall into place" and they seems to be fitting more "loosely" and not sounding like they are trying to make any kind of seal. I'll definitely be playing with them more before making any decisions about returning them or anything. Right this second I like what I'm hearing though.


----------



## voicemaster

jasonb said:


> With a little more playing around I realized that the "relieve pressure with ambient sound" setting totally kills the sound quality too. Turning that off and turning ANC off these are sounding a bit better with just the clear setting and no other EQ. I also put them into my ears and just let them "fall into place" and they seems to be fitting more "loosely" and not sounding like they are trying to make any kind of seal. I'll definitely be playing with them more before making any decisions about returning them or anything. Right this second I like what I'm hearing though.


I turned off both 99% of the time. ANC will boost the low bass, but it also kinda kills the mid bass, so it can sound thin. The ambiance mode makes the treble more sparkle by a tiny bit, but it also presented a compression noise time to time from the mic.


----------



## gibletzor

voicemaster said:


> I turned off both 99% of the time. ANC will boost the low bass, but it also kinda kills the mid bass, so it can sound thin. The ambiance mode makes the treble more sparkle by a tiny bit, but it also presented a compression noise time to time from the mic.


Yeah the ambient mode is nice for getting that little bit extra outside noise in, but it definitely changes the sound in a negative way.


----------



## hmscott

VICosPhi said:


> So Sedna now has special Xelastec tips for Airpods. Any ideas if these will also work with other TWS?
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/AZLA-SednaEarfit-XELASTEC-Airpods-Pairs/dp/B08DTWG57P/


I'd love to hear how Xelastec tips feel / fit before ordering them myself, I have them in my Amazon Cart for later - I'm still getting through the last batch of incoming stuff to sort for use. 

AZLA SednaEarfit XELASTEC 2 Pairs (Size ML)
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B08BR467F4

And, there's a couple of other forms of the AZLA eartips still to test:

AZLA SednaEarfitLight 2 Pairs (Size ML)
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B083XS7P6Y

AZLA SednaEarfit Short 2 Pairs (Size ML)
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B083XNX1V1


----------



## VICosPhi

hmscott said:


> I'd love to hear how Xelastec tips feel / fit before ordering them myself, I have them in my Amazon Cart for later - I'm still getting through the last batch of incoming stuff to sort for use.



I have Xelastec tips. They are very very comfortable and isolate really really well. These tips do not boost or reduce any bass or treble imo at least for the wired IEM, vocals do sound more forward with these. I use these with my FiiO FH7 and they sound great. I tried these on my MTW2 and they changed the sound signature and made MTW brighter while reducing bass response so didn't like these with MTW2.


----------



## hmscott (Aug 16, 2020)

VICosPhi said:


> I have Xelastec tips. They are very very comfortable and isolate really really well. These tips do not boost or reduce any bass or treble imo at least for the wired IEM, vocals do sound more forward with these. I use these with my FiiO FH7 and they sound great. I tried these on my MTW2 and they changed the sound signature and made MTW brighter while reducing bass response so didn't like these with MTW2.


Thank you for those fine details. 

I've also noticed the ALZA tips in general give better mid-range definition - but it's really across the spectrum, not just the mid-range.  If that model reduces Bass that would be unusual in the range, as well as enhancing the high's, it then thin's out the material - that's opposite to what the models I've tried so far exhibit, they thicken the overall presentation in some like the KZ S2's, but simply enhance the overall transmission through the tip as compared to the previous stock or 3rd party tips I've tried.  The effect of isolation from outside noise may be part of the increase in small details and soundstage.

Thinning out can be due to a poor seal, you might try different sizes of those tips - one about and one below that size.  For me it took a while, going from S to L, and all the sizes in between so see how each size affected the sound and noise isolation.  For me the L or M of various brands worked best, varying by design and make - for the ALZA tips I've tried so far the Medium-Large or ML sit best in my ears.  Not too tight, but a good solid seal to good effect on the sound and noise isolation.

The MTW2 are gone now, it would have been nice to try out other tips on them, I only used the stock tips before returning them - I didn't find them "special enough" and my time predated the fixing of the noise canceling.  Perhaps the MTW3's will blossom like I'd hoped the MTW2's would, for $300+.

So far the ALZA tips I've used haven't failed to improve the IEM / TWS, except for the full sized ones not fitting in the TWS cases they sound great.

I'm listening to Picard (again) with the KZ S2's, quite nice.  

Darn, even the short ALZA tips keep the KZ S2 case from closing... I pulled the ALZA tips and moved them to the 2nd pair of KZ S2's for another 4 hours or so...


----------



## DynamicEars

baskingshark said:


> Wow seems cheaper on DROP than Aliexpress even. Yeah but big bummer they ain't selling the modules separately currently. That's the whole point of this design right?
> 
> I've never bought from DROP, so any of you guys know how is the DROP return policies/refunds if a product is defective? I've not the greatest trust in TRN QC from my past experiences, so just to cover bases that we might need to contact CS for QC problems down the line.



Its kinda disappointing that in the end we don't get all the connector types. I was hoping that we can get a module that can be used with all our IEM regardless the connection differences. Worst if they don't sell the connector type separately.


----------



## Caipirina

jant71 said:


> Amazon US...
> 
> Beat us


Dang! I am so going to have withdrawal soon!!! Not enough time left to order anything from AE to my current location. So I switched my address back to my regular ‘island in the middle of nowhere’ ... and the Vooplay don’t even show up in search anymore! One more switch back and forth to put in shopping cart and I see WHY it (and many others) don’t show up anymore.



it’s either that or 40-50$ shipping via ems. They are not taking any chances with that monkey island anymore (as part of the fight against Corona, the postal service was suspended, a lot of mail got lost ...)
And amazon is no option either. And my usual winter trip to Japan is very much most likely not happening .... whaaaaa can’t get anything new until summer 21 possibly.


----------



## DB10

jasonb said:


> I understand what you're saying and what bugs me about the fit is the inconsistency. It's definitely not as consistent as something that has silicone or foam tips than go into your ear canal. What bugs me about the beans is wondering whether both are inserted the same and I'm getting the same sound on each side, and the same sound each time I put them in.
> 
> I don't see the bass taming down enough for me to like them on the normal EQ setting. Even the clear setting has too much bass for my tastes. I'm just not a bass head in the slightest, and prefer lots of clarity instead of lots of warmth.
> 
> ...



Hi, thanks for your impression.

Only one question, what do you use to EQ your Sonys, the whavelet app auto settings or the Sony app?.

Thanks in advance, might be you have published it before but the thread is so long I cannot find anything...


----------



## bronco1015

AudioNoob said:


> Mine are pretty quiet. I recommend third party tips for a good seal for more passive isolation. Sednas would probably work well, im using final e tips. Spunky beats on the other hand have hiss galore and crunchy driver flex


That is weird. i had 2 spunky beats, one i gifted to my friend's kid for Christmas and other for myself, I listened to both of them quite a bit, and tested for both of those things, and had none with either. Matter of fact, i haven't heard of driver flex on the spunkybeat that i can recall, how many pairs have you tried? Also there are like 3 revisions of them IIRC, The 2 i  purchased were the 2nd that didn't have the constant blinking lights. Speaking of bad hiss though, i just got the Anmino X2 sent to me for review, and they have terrible hiss. To bad because they have a nice case w USB-C, wireless charging, i tested it actually works, and they remind me of some jabra knockoffs.
if anyone wants to try them Amazon US has them for $25.49 after a 15% coupon. I think i just got a faulty set.


----------



## jasonb

DB10 said:


> Hi, thanks for your impression.
> 
> Only one question, what do you use to EQ your Sonys, the whavelet app auto settings or the Sony app?.
> 
> Thanks in advance, might be you have published it before but the thread is so long I cannot find anything...



Wavelet app. It has much more control.


----------



## phaeton70

sponsor said:


> Quick impressions: The sound is bassy, I am not a basshead so it was pretty boomy, but either it's my ears or the driver settling in, it toned down a bit by the end of the day.


...and they will continue to evolve in the next 10 days or so, depending on how much you use them.... at least, this is what happened to my Apollo. out of the box they were unplayable without heavy eq (I used at that time -6 @ 63 and 125 and -4 @ 250 plus a +2 @ 8k and +4 @ 16k). now I can listen also without eq, even if for my personal taste I prefer to still have -2 @ 63 and 125 (I'm not a basshead at all  )
I also suggest to try the other tips included in the box, can be helpful not only in the seal but also for the tonal balance. specifically I'm now using the biggest ones (not so bigger than the default tbh) and they have opened up the mids and highs in an incredible way, now I can hear a much better definition and more details..
overall I'm really impressed by these little toys, way much better than what I expected at this pricepoint.


----------



## jant71

DynamicEars said:


> Its kinda disappointing that in the end we don't get all the connector types. I was hoping that we can get a module that can be used with all our IEM regardless the connection differences. Worst if they don't sell the connector type separately.



I'm sure the Ali options will increase and the price will drop soon enough. Just need to get a whole kit ot seperate connector options for sale. I am more of the belief that it just isn't ready or available than they are not gonna do it. They can't be that dumb.



Caipirina said:


> Dang! I am so going to have withdrawal soon!!! Not enough time left to order anything from AE to my current location. So I switched my address back to my regular ‘island in the middle of nowhere’ ... and the Vooplay don’t even show up in search anymore! One more switch back and forth to put in shopping cart and I see WHY it (and many others) don’t show up anymore.
> 
> 
> it’s either that or 40-50$ shipping via ems. They are not taking any chances with that monkey island anymore (as part of the fight against Corona, the postal service was suspended, a lot of mail got lost ...)
> And amazon is no option either. And my usual winter trip to Japan is very much most likely not happening .... whaaaaa can’t get anything new until summer 21 possibly.



It early. Maybe not Monday but soon there will be more sellers, a lower price, and other better shipping options. If Sabbat is indeed as well regarded as it seems it will be available most likely on a few different platforms.

I thought of the Vooplay as an open pair but am still mostly set on the Cleer beamform Arc model since your ears are totally free from anything and a headband model is on 1,2,3 unlike pulling out each bud and inserting. 

Summer 21 will probably have BT5.2 models with nice battery life using LC3+ high bitrate by then. Could save the money if you make it through the withdrawal


----------



## VICosPhi

Anyone in US, Aliexpress could be banned soon which will be sad if it happens.

https://www.nytimes.com/reuters/2020/08/15/business/15reuters-usa-trump-alibaba.html


----------



## DB10

jasonb said:


> Wavelet app. It has much more control.


Thanks! Do you use autoeq or custom?

Greetings!


----------



## jasonb

DB10 said:


> Thanks! Do you use autoeq or custom?
> 
> Greetings!



AutoEQ with minor tweaks and have the "bass tuner" set to give them a bit more initial punch in the bass.


----------



## DB10

jasonb said:


> AutoEQ with minor tweaks and have the "bass tuner" set to give them a bit more initial punch in the bass.


Hi @jasonb thanks for all your help, all the experience of all of you in this forum is quite helpful for new people like me...

All the best, David.


----------



## Shadowclash10

LOL! This is too funny: I was reading a review for the 1More Colorbuds, and AndroidCentral said that Jabra is an audiophile brand . _"Not to mention more audiophile-centric brands like Jabra, Sennheiser, and Sony." _Okay, Sennheiser is definitely an audiophile brand, Sony partially. But Jabra?!?! And then they link the 75t. I mean, Jabra is one of the best examples of a not-audiophile brand that I can think of (look, if you want to buy the 75t as an audiophile, nothing wrong with that, but they aren't an _audiophile brand _by any stretch of the imagination).


----------



## VICosPhi

Wavelet looks like a great EQ app but I hear distortion when I enable Bass tuner or Graphic Eq. Either my ears are oversensitive or my Note 10+ is causing some issues. This happens at any volume level above 30% on any of my TWS or wired buds.


----------



## Sam L

Been on the hunt for such a long time for really good call quality tws, something at or near Airpod Pro quality and I had it all along with my forgotten jabra 65t. Haha. 

Fiil CC and T1X are decent as well with the jabra 65t a tad better.


----------



## Sam L

Shadowclash10 said:


> LOL! This is too funny: I was reading a review for the 1More Colorbuds, and AndroidCentral said that Jabra is an audiophile brand . _"Not to mention more audiophile-centric brands like Jabra, Sennheiser, and Sony." _Okay, Sennheiser is definitely an audiophile brand, Sony partially. But Jabra?!?! And then they link the 75t. I mean, Jabra is one of the best examples of a not-audiophile brand that I can think of (look, if you want to buy the 75t as an audiophile, nothing wrong with that, but they aren't an _audiophile brand _by any stretch of the imagination).


Sony is a full on audiophile brand but not as easily recognized by the general public as such. Kind of like seiko watches. Most think seikos are average, but their grand seiko line has always been of the highest quality, even when compared to Breguet, AP, Rolex, etc


----------



## Shadowclash10

Sam L said:


> Sony is a full on audiophile brand but not as easily recognized by the general public as such. Kind of like seiko watches. Most think seikos are average, but their grand seiko line has always been of the highest quality, even when compared to Breguet, AP, Rolex, etc


Yeah, I guess so. It's just that, like you said, the general public oftentimes doesn't see them as such, because Sony does cater to general consumers, moreso than most audiophile brands. BTW, what I was laughing at wasn't Sony, but the fact that they called *Jabra* an audiophile brand . That is 100% not true, amirite?


----------



## jasonb (Aug 16, 2020)

VICosPhi said:


> Wavelet looks like a great EQ app but I hear distortion when I enable Bass tuner or Graphic Eq. Either my ears are oversensitive or my Note 10+ is causing some issues. This happens at any volume level above 30% on any of my TWS or wired buds.



I've only heard distortion from boosting bass with my K371 and ES100 with Wavelet. With my Galaxy Beans or the WF1000xm3 I can do whatever I want and hear no distortion.

On the subject of the Beans. Right now what I'm hearing is very acceptable. The sounds seems to be hit or miss depending on how I stick them in my ears though I guess.


----------



## erockg

Crazy is as Crazy does.  Idle hands are the devil's workshop.  Here I go again, ugh.  Listening to The Sword right now and I want to mosh into my toddler.  Sorry, kid.


----------



## Synthy

repaired my og Galaxy Buds, i had given up on them months ago, as i had though i had shorted something or ruined the driver in the left ear with moisture due to using them at work, (extremely humid environment). last night i idly checked the ifixit forum (highly recommend), and found that the issue i was experiencing (very low volume in one ear) isn't uncommon, and the issue is buildup of wax behind the metal mesh, the solution to which was to pry out the mesh with a utility knife, pry out the silicon filter from the mesh, and clean the (huge amount of) accumulated wax out, and reassemble. they sound normal again, which is great, i was about to throw them out, and this was a great save.


----------



## darveniza

I just got the new Technics EZ with ANC and the Samsung Live (Beans)

The ANC on the Technics is excellent, the App is good, but controls a bit of an issue raising volume is problematic. Cannot get the taps correct

The Beans ANC is not detectable in heavy environments, however went to do groceries and decided to try out there and worked very well to eliminate a lot of the noise in the background

Sound, is pretty close. But I have to give it to the Beans, they sound so good for such a small TWS

Currently my ranking on just connecting and enjoying music

1) AKG N400
2) Samsung Live
3) Technics EZ
4) Samsung Buds Plus
5) Senheiser TW
6) M&D 07 Plus
7) Pixel Buds 2

The best mics for calls are the Samsung and Pixel Buds 2. Placement and quality

I am ranking Pixel buds 2 low due to "shy" bass and drop out issues. Google is supposedly working on this

Also trying Oppo Enco 31. Great pair and sound. But still testing


----------



## darveniza




----------



## actorlife

hmscott said:


> These tips make everything sound better - they fit me perfectly, I'm on my 5th pair - used on the Tranya T10 and they really sound great now - good with the stock tips - amazing with these AZLA SednaEarfit ML's:
> https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B083GF9N81
> 
> On IEM's the size is no issue, on the KZ S2's they don't cause any fitment in the case issues, but for the Tranya T10 they keep the lid from closing - so I used a triple wrapped rubber band to keep it closed so the T10's can charge
> ...


If they go on sale for 10 I might bite. I do like those foam tips I bought recently though.
Earphone Tips F FEYCH Premium Replacement Earbud Tips https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07SKW5YMH/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_I2DoFbDQMMVXM


----------



## actorlife (Aug 17, 2020)

DB10 said:


> Hi,
> 
> I wish you are fine!!! I have been following this thread about one year (more or less) but I had never written, hello everyone!. I love the freedom that TWS give you but I also know that the sound quality is low in comparison with wired ones although I think everything is improving. My iems, that I use everyday, are the CA Andromeda and some other on rotation (Blon BL03, 1 more triple...).
> 
> ...


Lybertek Tevi!!!! Son bien bueno compralo.


----------



## actorlife

Caipirina said:


> So, I received those super fake Galaxy Buds in record shipping time from AliExpress and I am no expert, but I don’t think the LEDs on the originals are THAT strong (or the plastic casing so weak)
> 
> 
> They do actually work, seem to connect well, sound ok, albeit a bit muffled. And no idea yet what the battery life is like. So, kids: don’t buy fakes. Having said that, 10$ for the experience and the knowledge how detailed this copy business is these days & finally having some yellow TWS to color coordinate .. not bad.
> ...


I wanna hear more observations in a week maybe it will get better like a pair of $13 they were crap, but opened up nicely to my surprise.


----------



## actorlife (Aug 17, 2020)

KafkaEsqueMajor said:


> Can someone recommend me something in the range of 30-50$?
> 
> I previously have the anbes 359 but it's falling apart on me and while it fit my ears quite good the sound sometimes felt lacking.
> 
> ...


Tronsport Spunky Beats(5hrs battery) has close to the Anbes 359 sound. I got mine on eBay for $25 from Brooklyn.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/114296085402
Or try amazon/ Aliex.
Lypertek Tevi is more advanced but cost more at 89. It’s well worth it.


----------



## gibletzor

I think so far the only thing I don't like about the GBuds Live is the case.  This thing is so glossy and slippery I've dropped it 3 times already this weekend on hard floors and my stomach turns each time thinking it's going to be busted!  So far no damage!


----------



## newtophones07 (Aug 17, 2020)

darveniza said:


> I just got the new Technics EZ with ANC and the Samsung Live (Beans)
> 
> The ANC on the Technics is excellent, the App is good, but controls a bit of an issue raising volume is problematic. Cannot get the taps correct
> 
> ...




Do you need to have location enabled to connect to the technics (like on the panasonics)?  Thanks


----------



## Shadowclash10

actorlife said:


> Lybertek Tevi!!!!


BTW, what about the Klipsch T5? Can anyone compare those to the Lypertek Tevis?


----------



## VICosPhi

darveniza said:


> I am ranking Pixel buds 2 low due to "shy" bass and drop out issues. Google is supposedly working on this


Which one you would say had the most bass impact in that list?


----------



## actorlife (Aug 17, 2020)

Shadowclash10 said:


> BTW, what about the Klipsch T5? Can anyone compare those to the Lypertek Tevis?


The price kept me away from the T5. 8hr, aptx and I bet they sound great though. Looks like they can be found for $79 now which is great. They were $150 or higher I think.
Oh snap version T5 II coming and looks like you can change the battery and strong antenna:
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B088S7FYZ4/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_DKGoFbB6DKHRP


----------



## regancipher

newtophones07 said:


> Do you buy chance have a ranking on in call use, best sounding microphone to the caller? Thanks for the rankings, by the way.


It's difficult because you have to do so many tests to judge the mic quality

I do 4 indoor and 4 outdoor tests with different ambient noise levels for 3 minutes stationary and moving.

Samsung for example have always been quite good moving from my experience. As has already been said a lot of it comes down to placement and configuration.

Most of the higher budget headphones don't sound _that_ good from a mic perspective, some have really disappointed me. Some budget ones, like the Tronsmart Onyx Neo and Boltune BT-BH024, surprised me at being very strong in certain environments. I think Bluetooth really does limit how good the capability of mic quality, everything else is fine tuning.


----------



## DB10 (Aug 17, 2020)

actorlife said:


> Lybertek Tevi!!!! Son bien bueno compralo.


Hi!!!
thanks for your suggestion @actorlife , "gracias por tu sugerencia", do you find them suitable also for general use, including sport?.

I would prefer having only one pair, I am finding extremely difficult to keep the Sonys in my ears while practicing sport...and I am reviewing the suggested models here (Sabbat X12) for sport purpose, but one "pair for everything" would be great!!!!


----------



## Kvarkmeister

Synthy said:


> repaired my og Galaxy Buds, i had given up on them months ago, as i had though i had shorted something or ruined the driver in the left ear with moisture due to using them at work, (extremely humid environment). last night i idly checked the ifixit forum (highly recommend), and found that the issue i was experiencing (very low volume in one ear) isn't uncommon, and the issue is buildup of wax behind the metal mesh, the solution to which was to pry out the mesh with a utility knife, pry out the silicon filter from the mesh, and clean the (huge amount of) accumulated wax out, and reassemble. they sound normal again, which is great, i was about to throw them out, and this was a great save.


That's crazy! It seems to require extreme precision, doesn't it? Perhaps it could fix my right FIIL earphone.


----------



## bedlamite (Aug 17, 2020)

erockg said:


> Crazy is as Crazy does.  Idle hands are the devil's workshop.  Here I go again, ugh.  Listening to The Sword right now and I want to mosh into my toddler.  Sorry, kid.


Nice. I think B&O has had a increasingly hard time maintaining brand relevance but it'll be a sad day if they ever go out of business. I have a ton of their Beoplay gear but I find it hard to spring for their new E8s considering how competitive the TWS arena is nowadays. 

What eartips are those, CP100s?



darveniza said:


> Currently my ranking on just connecting and enjoying music
> 
> 1) AKG N400


The AKGs are super underrated. Deservedly so, I guess, since they've only launched officially in Korea. But man, these are great. Fantastic clarity.


----------



## galgofa

jasonb said:


> I just picked up the Galaxy Beans (buds live) from my local best buy. To me they sound best on the treble boost setting, and then adding back a touch of bass with the Wavelet Android EQ app. In the normal EQ setting they have waaaay too much bass for me. The clear EQ setting is better, but the treble boost seems the best to me with the small bass boost in the Wavelet app. They are a unique earbud for sure. The ANC does do something, but it's obviously not comparable to my WF1000xm3, and it's not meant to be. These are kind of like listening to an open back headphone which is kind of cool.
> 
> Am wondering if we'll ever see measurements of these or if that is even possible since they don't have a tip and make a seal.



How about to sleep in it ? I mean are they comfortable to watch tv on the side on the pillow ?


----------



## bronco1015

Getting the Back Bay Duet 50 pro in for review in a couple days.


----------



## dasadab

bedlamite said:


> Nice. I think B&O has had a increasingly hard time maintaining brand relevance but it'll be a sad day if they ever go out of business. I have a ton of their Beoplay gear but I find it hard to spring for their new E8s considering how competitive the TWS arena is nowadays.
> 
> What eartips are those, CP100s?
> 
> ...



I am interested in the AKGs, but I also like my Nuarl N6 Pros a lot.  The Nuarls to my ear are better or equal to my Sony X3s.  Have you compared the AKGs with the Nuarls?  Thanks a lot.


----------



## actorlife (Aug 17, 2020)

DB10 said:


> Hi!!!
> thanks for your suggestion @actorlife , "gracias por tu sugerencia", do you find them suitable also for general use, including sport?.
> 
> I would prefer having only one pair, I am finding extremely difficult to keep the Sonys in my ears while practicing sport...and I am reviewing the suggested models here (Sabbat X12) for sport purpose, but one "pair for everything" would be great!!!!


I would stay away from the Sabbats they are treble less and hard to get a good fit when I had them and one side stopped working. I can’t say enough about the Tevi. They are beyond my expectations. Wide soundstage, great tight bass, mids might be the best I’ve heard besides the Anbes 359(No longer available) which I regard as the best budget TWS. The Tronsport Spunky beats sounds very close to the sq and is only $25, but exceeds the battery on the Anbes(4hrs on 50 percent volume) to 5hrs. I have small ears and don’t have problems with the fit. I’d suggest you buy some comply if you want a tight fit for any earbuds/TWS. Another pair I would suggest is the Ofusho 8hr and aptx which has sports wings and sound is just as great at $35!!! These won’t fall out!
Bluetooth Earbuds Wireless Earbuds Bluetooth Earphones Wireless Headphones, OFUSHO Bluetooth 5.0 Deep Bass 152H Playtime IPX7 Waterproof TWS Stereo in-Ear Headphones with Charging Case, CVC8.0 Apt-X https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07VD3M6M3/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_EMQoFb0AEDMZ4
If I were you I’d get both Spunky beats and Ofusho. Always great to have a backup. All of my suggestions have aptx. Feel free to ask any question.


----------



## Luchyres

dasadab said:


> I am interested in the AKGs, but I also like my Nuarl N6 Pros a lot.  The Nuarls to my ear are better or equal to my Sony X3s.  Have you compared the AKGs with the Nuarls?  Thanks a lot.



I have the regular N6's and got the AKG N400's but ended up sending them back and preferring my N6. YMMV

N400's were mainly lacking in bass presence/tightness (maybe would have tightened up) and were not good for calls.I'm waiting for N6 mini and N10 Pro


----------



## Sam L

gibletzor said:


> I think so far the only thing I don't like about the GBuds Live is the case.  This thing is so glossy and slippery I've dropped it 3 times already this weekend on hard floors and my stomach turns each time thinking it's going to be busted!  So far no damage!


Yeah, I noticed that as well.... not to mention the shiny part of the buds are slippery as well. Beginning to think they should of made it all matte finished. 

Going to hunt down if I have any more of these around the house to make the case grippier. 

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07DD69HKJ/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_i_zqRoFbZ16QGHE


----------



## Sam L

Shadowclash10 said:


> Yeah, I guess so. It's just that, like you said, the general public oftentimes doesn't see them as such, because Sony does cater to general consumers, moreso than most audiophile brands. BTW, what I was laughing at wasn't Sony, but the fact that they called *Jabra* an audiophile brand . That is 100% not true, amirite?


Haha, yes, agreed... Jabra in the company of those names is funny.


----------



## DB10

actorlife said:


> I would stay away from the Sabbats they are treble less and hard to get a good fit when I had them and one side stopped working. I can’t say enough about the Tevi. They are beyond my expectations. Wide soundstage, great tight bass, mids might be the best I’ve heard besides the Anbes 359(No longer available) which I regard as the best budget TWS. The Tronsport Spunky beats sounds very close to the sq and is only $25, but exceeds the battery on the Anbes(4hrs on 50 percent volume) to 5hrs. I have small ears and don’t have problems with the fit. I’d suggest you buy some comply if you want a tight fit for any earbuds/TWS. Another pair I would suggest is the Ofusho 8hr and aptx which has sports wings and sound is just as great at $35!!! These won’t fall out!
> Bluetooth Earbuds Wireless Earbuds Bluetooth Earphones Wireless Headphones, OFUSHO Bluetooth 5.0 Deep Bass 152H Playtime IPX7 Waterproof TWS Stereo in-Ear Headphones with Charging Case, CVC8.0 Apt-X https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07VD3M6M3/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_EMQoFb0AEDMZ4
> If I were you I’d get both Spunky beats and Ofusho. Always great to have a backup. All of my suggestions have aptx. Feel free to ask any question.



Hi @actorlife for all your suggestions.

I have the Sonys XM3 but they have no IP rating and I am thinking of sending them back to Amazon, they constantly fall out my ears...the sound is great for me, but they are extremely uncomfortable for my small ears.

I have reviewed and the Tevis and the Spunky Beats are available in my region (Amazon Spain) but the OFUSHO are no longer available here, so that I cannot buy them...I can find here the Tevis, the Spunky Beats and some other recommended models such as Jabra 75t, Jaybird Vista, Mpow 30, Soundpeats Truesift, Bomaker Sifi...I am quite confused about the best option so all your help is welcomed!!!

Thanks in advance.


----------



## webvan

DB10 said:


> Hi!!!
> thanks for your suggestion @actorlife , "gracias por tu sugerencia", do you find them suitable also for general use, including sport?.
> 
> I would prefer having only one pair, I am finding extremely difficult to keep the Sonys in my ears while practicing sport...and I am reviewing the suggested models here (Sabbat X12) for sport purpose, but one "pair for everything" would be great!!!!


A quick search will provide you with a lot more details, including my post from yesterday, but the X12 are probably the BEST running TWEs, if that's what you mean by "sports", as their earbud design prevents any kind of "thump" that destroys SQ and they have a surprisingly decent amount of bass for an earbud. This "thump" is present on ALL non earbud style TWEs (the air is trapped in the ear canal and has nowhere to go when you hit the ground with each stride) although amazingly very few people seem to be bothered by this horrible artifact. Additionally you can stay (relatively) aware of your surroundings which can be useful. Now if you mean "weight lifting" in the gym this is not the type of TWE you want.


----------



## Caipirina

webvan said:


> This "thump" is present on ALL non earbud style TWEs (the air is trapped in the ear canal and has nowhere to go when you hit the ground with each stride) although amazingly very few people seem to be bothered by this horrible artifact.


Sometimes I have the feeling it’s only you and me 

also, I think there are a few IEM style TWS that reduce the thud by some pressure vent hole magic. The Nilkin GO come to mind. Bought a second pair because of that ( in black, did not like the strawberry red ones i bought first. )


----------



## DB10

webvan said:


> A quick search will provide you with a lot more details, including my post from yesterday, but the X12 are probably the BEST running TWEs, if that's what you mean by "sports", as their earbud design prevents any kind of "thump" that destroys SQ and they have a surprisingly decent amount of bass for an earbud. This "thump" is present on ALL non earbud style TWEs (the air is trapped in the ear canal and has nowhere to go when you hit the ground with each stride) although amazingly very few people seem to be bothered by this horrible artifact. Additionally you can stay (relatively) aware of your surroundings which can be useful. Now if you mean "weight lifting" in the gym this is not the type of TWE you want.


Hi, thanks again, I will order them, as I told you I will use it for walking (I do not run, but I do power walking) and cycling in the countryside, where I listen to some podcasts, not music, that at low volume allows me listening also the environment if it would be required.

By the way, my daily drivers are a pair of Andromedas (they were extremely expensive for me but I found a pair in mint condition for a budget price) paired with my ES100, I am extremely happy with their sound, I will no change them in the next future, but I have ordered a new FiiO BTR5 because the battery in the ES100 is completely dead. That is why am trying to find a sport companion with the best possible sound, and I ordered a pair of Sonys XM3 at budget price (Amazon) to see if they could substitute the Andromedas when I am for example gardening or cooking, for better comfort, but I would prefer a "pair for all", both sport and daily activities.

Thanks again @webvan !!!


----------



## Caipirina

Some quick first impressions of those Panasonic RWS500Z (?) , no RZ-S500W  
- they fit me nicely with XL stock tips (5! Tip sizes included) I am getting a great seal which results in:
- very impressive ANC! Possibly the best of all the ANC buds I currently have, but maybe only by a smidge. 
- also results in a louder, annoying thud even just walking!!! Seems these are ‘sit down’ buds
- too early to talk about sound, so far nothing wrong, instead I rather like what I am hearing. Bass there but not as boomy as the Apollo
- switching from iPhone to Mac seems to be super annoying: involving total forget / unpairing/ put buds back in case to initiate re-pairing ... unless there is an easier way that I have yet to figure out. 
- there is an app. Nothing super fancy so far.EQ offers a bass boost, a clear voice and then one custom setting.
More maybe later


----------



## jant71

actorlife said:


> The price kept me away from the T5. 8hr, aptx and I bet they sound great though. Looks like they can be found for $79 now which is great. They were $150 or higher I think.
> Oh snap version T5 II coming and looks like you can change the battery and strong antenna:
> https://www.amazon.com/dp/B088S7FYZ4/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_DKGoFbB6DKHRP



Change the battery?? Or did you mean wireless charge the battery.


----------



## webvan

@Caipirina - Since I'm a sucker for "super sauce ANC" it looks like I need to order the  Panasonic RWS500Z  ! Too bad they're not available on Amazon FR's at the same price used as on Amazon DE...

Since you mention the bass on the Apollo, do you notice that "bass boost, highs muted" when ANC is turned ON ? Oddly it seems I'm the only one now with that problem although I could swear I remember someone else mentioning it a few weeks ago.

Need to try these Nilkin GO at some point to experience their reduced "thud" but better isolation than the X12s for running in noisy (and dangerless) environments...although since I never run on treadmills I'm not sure where that would be


----------



## jant71

hifi80sman said:


> Have you tried the Klipsch T5 TWS?  I just got them yesterday and I'm quite pleased with them.  Vocals sound fantastic, with good detail retrieval and pleasing bass, which is to say the bass is not heavily boosted.  Highs are not overly boosted, but they are still crisp with a good sense of air.  Mature sound.  The case is awesome.  Haven't tried calls yet.  They do fit deeper, but I don't have any issue with ergonomics or comfort (which is good).  However, I do feel some movement with aerobic exercise, but weightlifting is fine.  Physical buttons aren't overly stiff or loose and function well (play/pause, track skip, vol controls).
> 
> Looking forward to the app that's slated to come out soon, but even without it, I'm quite satisfied.
> 
> ...



Was reading over the impressions of the first one. Liking the sport a bit but couldn't remember a Klipsch dynamic driver earphone that sounded good. The armature models did but nothing special with the dynamic driver powered ones. Seems the T5 was close but just below the Senn sound and the new driver is said to be improved over the first T5. Seems like it will be pretty good. New shape a bit smaller as well. The 4 beamform mics should be good for calls and hear through to be better quality. Not looking so bad. $199 would be better than $229 but Klipsch will get cheaper if you want to wait it out.


----------



## MadMike (Aug 17, 2020)

Caipirina said:


> Some quick first impressions of those Panasonic RWS500Z (?) , no RZ-S500W
> - they fit me nicely with XL stock tips (5! Tip sizes included) I am getting a great seal which results in:
> - very impressive ANC! Possibly the best of all the ANC buds I currently have, but maybe only by a smidge.
> - also results in a louder, annoying thud even just walking!!! Seems these are ‘sit down’ buds
> ...


Yes, I am getting the "thud' when walking with the Xelastec tips- though it tends to settle down some after a few minutes. I tried the stock M tips on my last walk and there was definitely less "thud". Going to use stock tips again on my next walk to confirm. Wonder if Comply foam tips would be better for walking?


----------



## erockg

bedlamite said:


> Nice. I think B&O has had a increasingly hard time maintaining brand relevance but it'll be a sad day if they ever go out of business. I have a ton of their Beoplay gear but I find it hard to spring for their new E8s considering how competitive the TWS arena is nowadays.
> 
> What eartips are those, CP100s?
> 
> ...


Yes, the CP100s.  Although I keep trying different ones to get a good seal.  I have a stash of a bunch of brands.  Keep going back to the CP100.


----------



## phaeton70

Me too have ordered the Pana RZ-S500W, they should arrive next week. I have great expectations


----------



## VICosPhi

The thunderous thud while walking/running has haunted me always, I have however observed that using Comply foam tips minimizes the loudness of thud significantly. I just hate how the foam tips cause treble roll-off though and change the tonality of the bass


----------



## actorlife (Aug 17, 2020)

DB10 said:


> Hi, thanks again, I will order them, as I told you I will use it for walking (I do not run, but I do power walking) and cycling in the countryside, where I listen to some podcasts, not music, that at low volume allows me listening also the environment if it would be required.
> 
> By the way, my daily drivers are a pair of Andromedas (they were extremely expensive for me but I found a pair in mint condition for a budget price) paired with my ES100, I am extremely happy with their sound, I will no change them in the next future, but I have ordered a new FiiO BTR5 because the battery in the ES100 is completely dead. That is why am trying to find a sport companion with the best possible sound, and I ordered a pair of Sonys XM3 at budget price (Amazon) to see if they could substitute the Andromedas when I am for example gardening or cooking, for better comfort, but I would prefer a "pair for all", both sport and daily activities.
> 
> Thanks again @webvan !!!


Don’t do it you won’t like them we have the same ear size. If you can return then try them if not you’ll be out.


----------



## actorlife (Aug 17, 2020)

jant71 said:


> Change the battery?? Or did you mean wireless charge the battery.


I saw a video and it’s one of those quarter thin like batteries. Look on YouTube.
Here is the cheaper T5 II coming soon. I believe this was the price on the original:
Klipsch T5 II True Wireless Earphones with Signal-Boosting Antenna in Silver https://www.amazon.com/dp/B088XSS18P/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_AxToFb5P6KZTJ

Amazon renewed T5. So tempting:

Klipsch T5 True Wireless Earphones - True Wireless Earbuds with Bluetooth 5 (Renewed) https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07ZMT46QF/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_y9ToFb3H8220J


----------



## darveniza

VICosPhi said:


> Which one you would say had the most bass impact in that list?


I am split between AKG N400 and Samsung Live. the bass was more of my liking. The punch on the Oppo W31 was surprising and more in your face


----------



## jant71 (Aug 17, 2020)

actorlife said:


> I saw a video and it’s one of those quarter thin like batteries. Look on YouTube.
> Here is the cheaper T5 II coming soon. I believe this was the price on the original:
> Klipsch T5 II True Wireless Earphones with Signal-Boosting Antenna in Silver https://www.amazon.com/dp/B088XSS18P/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_AxToFb5P6KZTJ



Believe you but couldn't find it. Might be good if you needed to change out.

Saw this though...




Edifier quickly and somewhat quietly released the improved TWS NB2. Sounds like 7 hours now with improved ANC on and better sound and form factor.


----------



## Caipirina

jant71 said:


> Believe you but couldn't find it. Might be good if you needed to change out.
> 
> Saw this though...
> 
> Edifier quickly and somewhat quietly released the improved TWS NB2.


Ooooohhh  the form factor of the Libratone (and copied by Ksound, that was one ANC pair I sent back for being to mid centric)
But it terms of fit, this has so far served me well.
Let’s see if I will get a chance to try them.


----------



## Caipirina

One more observation on the Pana500 (there, fixed that stoopid name  ) 
- blinky lights!!! Who still thinks this is cool / useful? And if you do that AND you have an app, let me disable those lights (will deep dive next into the PRINTED manuals in several languages (adding like 100gr to the box weight) to see if there is some magic to turn those blinkies off! ) 

still on the edge with these. Can still go either way. Stay / Go. I think if I did not have any other ANC buds, they’d be keepers ...


----------



## logiatype

Luchyres said:


> I have the regular N6's and got the AKG N400's but ended up sending them back and preferring my N6. YMMV
> 
> N400's were mainly lacking in bass presence/tightness (maybe would have tightened up) and were not good for calls.I'm waiting for N6 mini and N10 Pro



Waiting on the N10 Pro as well. Any tentative release date? I'm holding off on purchasing anything but so tempted to get the N6 Pro for now (but seems pointless).


----------



## bronco1015

webvan said:


> @Caipirina - Since I'm a sucker for "super sauce ANC" it looks like I need to order the  Panasonic RWS500Z  ! Too bad they're not available on Amazon FR's at the same price used as on Amazon DE...
> 
> Since you mention the bass on the Apollo, do you notice that "bass boost, highs muted" when ANC is turned ON ? Oddly it seems I'm the only one now with that problem although I could swear I remember someone else mentioning it a few weeks ago.
> 
> Need to try these Nilkin GO at some point to experience their reduced "thud" but better isolation than the X12s for running in noisy (and dangerless) environments...although since I never run on treadmills I'm not sure where that would be


It may have been me you saw post about the muted highs and boomy bass of the Apollo while in ANC and Ambiant mode, i've posted about it a few times. but in passive mode they sound fantastic!. Still a bit more bass than i want at times, mostly mid bass, but still a great sound.


----------



## assassin10000

Caipirina said:


> One more observation on the Pana500 (there, fixed that stoopid name  )
> - blinky lights!!! Who still thinks this is cool / useful? And if you do that AND you have an app, let me disable those lights (will deep dive next into the PRINTED manuals in several languages (adding like 100gr to the box weight) to see if there is some magic to turn those blinkies off! )
> 
> still on the edge with these. Can still go either way. Stay / Go. I think if I did not have any other ANC buds, they’d be keepers ...



No need. Already confirmed can be turned off with the app.



MadMike said:


> Yes, the LED do light up when in use. However, there is a setting in the app that allows you to turn the LED off.


----------



## VICosPhi

darveniza said:


> I am split between AKG N400 and Samsung Live. the bass was more of my liking. The punch on the Oppo W31 was surprising and more in your face


Cool, thanks... I would have guessed MTW to have more bass than N400. That being said, Jabra 75T are the bassiest TWS I have heard so far.


----------



## Caipirina (Aug 17, 2020)

MadMike said:


> Yes, the LED do light up when in use. However, there is a setting in the app that allows you to turn the LED off.


Can you show me WHERE / HOW? Just went all over the app again, watched Flossy on YT do the same and consulted the app’s own online manual. No mention of turning off the LEDs as far as I can see ...


----------



## Luke Skywalker

hmscott said:


> Thank you for those fine details.
> 
> I've also noticed the ALZA tips in general give better mid-range definition - but it's really across the spectrum, not just the mid-range.  If that model reduces Bass that would be unusual in the range, as well as enhancing the high's, it then thin's out the material - that's opposite to what the models I've tried so far exhibit, they thicken the overall presentation in some like the KZ S2's, but simply enhance the overall transmission through the tip as compared to the previous stock or 3rd party tips I've tried.  The effect of isolation from outside noise may be part of the increase in small details and soundstage.
> 
> ...



Hey, are they really coming out with MTW3 some time soon?  I googled around but didn't see anything


----------



## bronco1015

Luke Skywalker said:


> Hey, are they really coming out with MTW3 some time soon?  I googled around but didn't see anything


i'm sure any reference to an MTW3 is just meant in passing, E.g. something like, heres hoping X is fixed on the MTW3, whenever that's released. i wouldn't expect it for a while, was 16 months IIRC from when the MTW was released to when the MTW2 was released.


----------



## FYLegend

How does 1More ANC compare to Tronsmart Apollo Bold? I see the 1More is on sale this week for 204$ CAD and 15$ coupon on top of that (though I think they might remove that soon!)


----------



## erockg

actorlife said:


> I saw a video and it’s one of those quarter thin like batteries. Look on YouTube.
> Here is the cheaper T5 II coming soon. I believe this was the price on the original:
> Klipsch T5 II True Wireless Earphones with Signal-Boosting Antenna in Silver https://www.amazon.com/dp/B088XSS18P/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_AxToFb5P6KZTJ
> 
> ...


Just be aware that these were selling brand new a few weeks ago for $69 at Costco and Amazon.  I'm sure they'll hit that low again when the new ones come out.  I LOVE the T5's, but they have some bt connection issues and other bugs.  Firmware updates via the app were also said to brick some units.  The sound is just awesome.  I'll definitely be picking up the new ones.


----------



## webvan

bronco1015 said:


> It may have been me you saw post about the muted highs and boomy bass of the Apollo while in ANC and Ambiant mode, i've posted about it a few times. but in passive mode they sound fantastic!. Still a bit more bass than i want at times, mostly mid bass, but still a great sound.



Thanks, it's not just me then ! I wonder why our Apollo Bold behave like that when ANC and Ambient (not as bad of an impact as with ANC) are turned on. Surely Tronsmart must have other feedback about that !



VICosPhi said:


> The thunderous thud while walking/running has haunted me always, I have however observed that using Comply foam tips minimizes the loudness of thud significantly. I just hate how the foam tips cause treble roll-off though and change the tonality of the bass


Exactly my observations with Comply foams, sure they provide great isolation but they just deteriorate the SQ to a point that is not acceptable to my ears ! And of course they fall apart quickly too...II think it's way better to find IEMs/TWEs that don't lose their seal with one's ear shape using the stock (or at least silicone) tips. As for the "thud", earbuds are the only way to go it seems but if you're in a noisy environment a choice will have to be made isolation or "thud" !


----------



## FYLegend

jant71 said:


> Believe you but couldn't find it. Might be good if you needed to change out.
> 
> Saw this though...
> 
> Edifier quickly and somewhat quietly released the improved TWS NB2. Sounds like 7 hours now with improved ANC on and better sound and form factor.


Unfortunately they removed AptX since it uses a BesTechnic chipset like the Pixel Buds, still no volume controls despite having a dedicated app. Call quality is bad with background noise, according to Sean Talks Tech's review.


----------



## Caipirina

webvan said:


> @Caipirina - Since I'm a sucker for "super sauce ANC" it looks like I need to order the  Panasonic RWS500Z  ! Too bad they're not available on Amazon FR's at the same price used as on Amazon DE...



Actually, for some strange reason, the official 'new' price on amazon.de was 134.90€ just before the weekend ... it is now at 141.90€, no idea why .fr is still 170+  ... the used offer I mentioned was white and was missing the eartips .. so, not worth saving 6$ 



webvan said:


> Since you mention the bass on the Apollo, do you notice that "bass boost, highs muted" when ANC is turned ON ? Oddly it seems I'm the only one now with that problem although I could swear I remember someone else mentioning it a few weeks ago.



Will check next time, but ... I don't recall noticing a big change .. or any change at all? 



webvan said:


> Need to try these Nilkin GO at some point to experience their reduced "thud" but better isolation than the X12s for running in noisy (and dangerless) environments...although since I never run on treadmills I'm not sure where that would be


You always have traffic around? I have a lot of field & forest paths ... other than the occasional mad cyclist I should be rather safe   (well, that's now, once I am back on the island, it will be cars on one side and train on the other ... )


----------



## webvan

No actually I very rarely run in noisy environments, never actually, that's why the X12 work so well for me. When I ran on a treadmill last year I did wish I had TWEs with better isolation but since it's so rare it's a non-issue really...still I'll try to check out the Nilkin


----------



## MadMike (Aug 17, 2020)

Caipirina said:


> Can you show me WHERE / HOW? Just went all over the app again, watched Flossy on YT do the same and consulted the app’s own online manual. No mention of turning off the LEDs as far as I can see ...



NOTE: You need to have updated S500s to latest firmware.
Settings (Wrench Icon- Top Right Corner) --> LED Notification Light (toggle Off)


----------



## willyk

After several weeks of using the Tranya T10s with somewhat "Ok" SQ but good BT connection, I just found out what they excel at: Endurance.

Not battery endurance as you might suspect, but washing machine endurance.

Yup - sooner or later, putting earbuds in your running shorts pockets after a run means that you will eventually put them in the washer, along with the shorts.  I did.

Afterward, they barely made a sound - volume was maybe 10%.  I let them sit for 24 hours and Boom, right back in the saddle.  They sound....  
... just "Ok" again, which is better than yesterday.

So, if you are looking for TWSs that can withstand the washing cycle test, buy the Tranya T10s.
If you are smarter than me, and never put yourself in the inevitable position of washing your earbuds along with your running clothes, you should just look for good sounding TWSs.


----------



## Caipirina

MadMike said:


> NOTE: You need to have updated S500s to latest firmware.
> Settings (Wrench Icon- Top Right Corner) --> LED Notification Light (toggle Off)


Updated FW Right away, also checked if there’s an update for the app. Can you send screenshot so I can possibly address that with Panasonic?


----------



## Mouseman

willyk said:


> After several weeks of using the Tranya T10s with somewhat "Ok" SQ but good BT connection, I just found out what they excel at: Endurance.
> 
> Not battery endurance as you might suspect, but washing machine endurance.
> 
> ...


Ha Ha ha! That's good to know. I can also attest to the Fiil T1x (3x because it's so small) and gasp...my L2Pros (only a partial cycle) making it through the washing machine. I don't recommend it, but I think the HE machines use so little water that as long as it stays in the pocket, you might be OK. I nearly had a heart attack when I realized the L2P was missing and guessed where it was.


----------



## assassin10000

Caipirina said:


> Updated FW Right away, also checked if there’s an update for the app. Can you send screenshot so I can possibly address that with Panasonic?



I wonder if it could it be an android vs iphone app difference?


----------



## actorlife (Aug 17, 2020)

erockg said:


> Just be aware that these were selling brand new a few weeks ago for $69 at Costco and Amazon.  I'm sure they'll hit that low again when the new ones come out.  I LOVE the T5's, but they have some bt connection issues and other bugs.  Firmware updates via the app were also said to brick some units.  The sound is just awesome.  I'll definitely be picking up the new ones.


Right now V.1 are $79 new on amazon. How is the app with firmware updates and sq settings and if you can describe the SQ? I have an older klipsch iem that I really loved. I still have them. They were $250 and got a sale for $80 bout 9 yrs ago. I forgot the model number right now, but they were thin. Edit.  Klipsch Image X10


----------



## MadMike

Caipirina said:


> Updated FW Right away, also checked if there’s an update for the app. Can you send screenshot so I can possibly address that with Panasonic?


----------



## howdy

erockg said:


> Crazy is as Crazy does.  Idle hands are the devil's workshop.  Here I go again, ugh.  Listening to The Sword right now and I want to mosh into my toddler.  Sorry, kid.


How are you liking those? I've always like B&O but as @hifi80sman alluded to, they charge way to much for there name and don't offer a lot of features. I'll wait tell there under 200 before considering buying.


----------



## assassin10000 (Aug 19, 2020)

The X12 Ultra I ordered a while ago finally showed up today.

These have more bass than I remember the X12 Pro having, which needed earbud foams to keep the low end present. These don't. SQ is a step up.

Another pleasant surprise is the matte finish the case now has and a completely different hinge, which has much tighter tolerances. That and the built in wireless charging is always nice. (Edit: fyi cases are interchangeable, pins/layout is the same.)


I'll try and A/B these with my X12 Pro's once I swap the original drivers back on.


----------



## Tronsmart Official

FYLegend said:


> How does 1More ANC compare to Tronsmart Apollo Bold? I see the 1More is on sale this week for 204$ CAD and 15$ coupon on top of that (though I think they might remove that soon!)


Tronsmart Apollo Bold is also on sale: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/tronsmart-apollo-bold-promotion-on-amazon.939833/


----------



## Shadowclash10

actorlife said:


> Amazon renewed T5. So tempting:
> 
> Klipsch T5 True Wireless Earphones - True Wireless Earbuds with Bluetooth 5 (Renewed) https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07ZMT46QF/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_y9ToFb3H8220J


Why not just get the brand new version for .... the grand total of $12 more?


----------



## Shadowclash10

jant71 said:


> Believe you but couldn't find it. Might be good if you needed to change out.
> 
> Saw this though...
> 
> Edifier quickly and somewhat quietly released the improved TWS NB2. Sounds like 7 hours now with improved ANC on and better sound and form factor.


Yeah, it was pretty quiet. I came across this ~3 or so weeks ago on their website, because they had a sale, and were selling the original TWS NB for ~$70 - almost 50% off! I decided not to get the original, because they were so bulky, but yeah. So they were out at least 3-4 weeks ago.


----------



## Shadowclash10

VICosPhi said:


> Cool, thanks... I would have guessed MTW to have more bass than N400. That being said, Jabra 75T are the bassiest TWS I have heard so far.


Has anyone been able to EQ the 75t to not be the little bass cannons they are ?


----------



## assassin10000

assassin10000 said:


> I'll try and A/B these with my X12 Pro's once I swap the original drivers back on.



Well, unfortunately no A/B will be possible. 

Looks like the original glue overlapped the coil wires so the original right driver is dead. The coil wire was torn removing the original drivers, to swap other drivers on.

Found this out after swapping back. Oh well. Guess the other drivers will stay on.


----------



## actorlife

Shadowclash10 said:


> Why not just get the brand new version for .... the grand total of $12 more?


I really don’t need them. Just cool that it’s cheap. Plus I heard the highs are not that great to be honest.


----------



## chinmie

webvan said:


> @Caipirina
> 
> Need to try these Nilkin GO at some point to experience their reduced "thud" but better isolation than the X12s for running in noisy (and dangerless) environments...although since I never run on treadmills I'm not sure where that would be





Caipirina said:


> Actually, for some strange reason, the official 'new' price on amazon.de was 134.90€ just before the weekend ... it is now at 141.90€, no idea why .fr is still 170+  ... the used offer I mentioned was white and was missing the eartips .. so, not worth saving 6$
> 
> Will check next time, but ... I don't recall noticing a big change .. or any change at all?
> 
> You always have traffic around? I have a lot of field & forest paths ... other than the occasional mad cyclist I should be rather safe   (well, that's now, once I am back on the island, it will be cars on one side and train on the other ... )



other than the X12 and Nillkin Go, the other TWS that don't produce "walking thuds" is the Dyplay BQC35. if I'm not mistaken, @webvan already have a unit but don't like it too much? 

it is quite bass heavy that i needed to use EQ at first, but lately i found the perfect eartips for it: reversed KZ starline tips. i use 1 size down to M from my usual tips (L). this hack cuts down the midbass by a lot but retains the subbass rumble, making this one of my favorite substitute for a full size headphones. 

i also like that it doesn't have much passive noise blocking, i even think it's a bit less than the Nillkin Go, but with the ANC switched on, music would be more clear than the Nillkin. it certainly excel in Gym environment with loud rumbling background music. 

the Nillkin still wins on volume headroom though, as even though the Dyplay have enough volume for me at 60 to 80 percent, the Nillkin can be even louder. 

i think the Airsun also has minimal thud, but i need to check them again to be sure. the thing that i don't like about it is the occasional drops of the signal, and the charging case is a bit finicky.. sometimes putting the earpiece inside doesn't charge it, so i have to check it several times when i first put it in the case. 



assassin10000 said:


> The X12 Ultra I ordered a while ago finally showed up today.
> 
> These have more bass than I remember the X12 Pro having, which needed earbud foams to keep the low end present. These don't. SQ is a step up.
> 
> ...



darn it... do i need to have 3 X12?? now you make me want to buy the Ultra too 

those marble series look great, especially the green one


the Vooplay looks interesting, but if it's basically the same as the X12 but with a facelift, i much prefer the X12 form factor and size anyway


----------



## assassin10000 (Aug 18, 2020)

chinmie said:


> other than the X12 and Nillkin Go, the other TWS that don't produce "walking thuds" is the Dyplay BQC35. if I'm not mistaken, @webvan already have a unit but don't like it too much?
> 
> it is quite bass heavy that i needed to use EQ at first, but lately i found the perfect eartips for it: reversed KZ starline tips. i use 1 size down to M from my usual tips (L). this hack cuts down the midbass by a lot but retains the subbass rumble, making this one of my favorite substitute for a full size headphones.
> 
> ...



I was also looking at the green 'advanced stone' one originally but the pictures are a bit misleading (as per usual lol). Someone on AE posted pics of theirs and I didn't like how the real ones looked, the green isn't as deep.

Here they are:




I went with the black & white 'advanced stone'. Which ended up having a kind of purple tint.


----------



## VICosPhi

Shadowclash10 said:


> Has anyone been able to EQ the 75t to not be the little bass cannons they are ?


I was able to tame that beast lol... boosting mids by +6dB is the key


----------



## phaeton70

Caipirina said:


> Will check next time, but ... I don't recall noticing a big change .. or any change at all?



same here, when I first read about this issue I have carefully listened in a very quiet ambient and no difference at all to my ears, then done the same in a noisy ambient and again no difference (well, apart the obvious diffrence in ambient and no ANC modes). I have also repeated w/ and w/o eq (just to be sure, I wasn't expecting a difference). 
not sure what's happening here... maybe a different production batch? (this is just my speculation, I don't have any real information). I'm in EU and bought from an EU store 20 days ago.



FYLegend said:


> How does 1More ANC compare to Tronsmart Apollo Bold? I see the 1More is on sale this week for 204$ CAD and 15$ coupon on top of that (though I think they might remove that soon!)



don't know about the 1more, what I can tell is that once you burn-in them correctly (at least 30h) the Apollo sound magnificent to my ears. nope they are not linear, would describe as funny/colored, and I think they were meant this way, but they maintain a very nice detail level and are not fatiguing at all. 
at the discounted price point that is running now I think it's a bargain.


----------



## georgelai57

Will an Android phone with a Qualcomm Snapdragon 636 processor be able to transmit in TWS Stereo Plus, assuming compatible phone and TWS IEMs?


----------



## de51red

Haylou T16 arrived rather early. Bought it for about usd50 in local currency. Early impressions it sounds balanced and transparent, not warm not bright, vocals are well defined, details are adequate. I'm impressed with it's wide soundstage. Timbre is rather good, I guess because of ccaw driver.  Bass is not boomy like usual pair of tws, but got enough slam.

Earbuds are lightweight but size is on a larger side and look sticks out of the ear. It gets loose quite easily on my ears.

3 types of ANC, full, sport and transparent, they all work pretty well on noisy environments, first one blocks out environment noise like busy streets and reckon to block aeroplane noises too. Sport mode is to have slight noice cancellation. Transparent in particular will let in outside noise and have annoying white noise when in quiet environment.

Microphone quality is better than average tws. Voices are clear. Haven't tested the connection stability yet. No aptx here and aac or sbc is the way to go.


----------



## bronco1015

georgelai57 said:


> Will an Android phone with a Qualcomm Snapdragon 636 processor be able to transmit in TWS Stereo Plus, assuming compatible phone and TWS IEMs?


No. Wasn't available on any phones until 845 came out. but with older QC chips, if the iems can be used in mono but also pair to each other when both are powered on, you should be able to pair each to the phone, then when you want to switch to 1 the handoff should happen pretty quickly after the other is turned off. i made this work with a snapdragon 835 and it worked flawlessly.


----------



## georgelai57

bronco1015 said:


> No. Wasn't available on any phones until 845 came out. but with older QC chips, if the iems can be used in mono but also pair to each other when both are powered on, you should be able to pair each to the phone, then when you want to switch to 1 the handoff should happen pretty quickly after the other is turned off. i made this work with a snapdragon 835 and it worked flawlessly.


Thanks.


----------



## Caipirina

MadMike said:


>


So strange. Why don’t I have that? Looks like you are on iPhone as well. Only thing I can imagine is that the app version differs by region. Maybe in EU the blinky lights have to be always on for safety reasons?


----------



## Caipirina

MadMike said:


>


 Could you kindly check which version of the app you have?


----------



## regancipher

Shadowclash10 said:


> LOL! This is too funny: I was reading a review for the 1More Colorbuds, and AndroidCentral said that Jabra is an audiophile brand . _"Not to mention more audiophile-centric brands like Jabra, Sennheiser, and Sony." _Okay, Sennheiser is definitely an audiophile brand, Sony partially. But Jabra?!?! And then they link the 75t. I mean, Jabra is one of the best examples of a not-audiophile brand that I can think of (look, if you want to buy the 75t as an audiophile, nothing wrong with that, but they aren't an _audiophile brand _by any stretch of the imagination).


They're not, but I think the general consensus outside the audiophile world would think of them as an audiophile brand. Makes no sense but you get my drift!


----------



## regancipher

phaeton70 said:


> same here, when I first read about this issue I have carefully listened in a very quiet ambient and no difference at all to my ears, then done the same in a noisy ambient and again no difference (well, apart the obvious diffrence in ambient and no ANC modes). I have also repeated w/ and w/o eq (just to be sure, I wasn't expecting a difference).
> not sure what's happening here... maybe a different production batch? (this is just my speculation, I don't have any real information). I'm in EU and bought from an EU store 20 days ago.
> 
> 
> ...



I agree with you 100%. I think they're going to sound even better with the right tips. I initially persevered with foam - bad choice, these guys are designed for silicone. Even the noise cancellation works better with silicone.

I haven't really listened to much music, other than for testing earbuds, for a couple of years now. The Apollo's are actually making me appreciate music again. 

On other forums people are asking me, is it worth upgrading from the Onyx Free to the Apollo Bold and for days I was a bit hesitant, the Free are so convenient, I woke up with them in again this morning, still stuck on chapter 30 of Thinking Fast and Slow  I think you need both!

I hate being tied to one vendor, it makes you look like a shill, but in that market Tronsmart are tearing it up right now. I've got the FIIL T1XS coming but El Jefe has already played them down, then Sean has not been super impressed with the new Edifiers. I actually think I could be taking a long break from trying to get a better sound here!


----------



## DB10

actorlife said:


> Don’t do it you won’t like them we have the same ear size. If you can return then try them if not you’ll be out.


Hi!!
I had just received them (Amazon) and they sound great for me, but I cannot stand them in my ears, they fall out...I will send them back.
Thanks!!


----------



## Caipirina

chinmie said:


> other than the X12 and Nillkin Go, the other TWS that don't produce "walking thuds" is the Dyplay BQC35. if I'm not mistaken,


Have not considered those for running at all. Thanks for the heads up. Will try tomorrow


----------



## Caipirina (Aug 18, 2020)

Caipirina said:


> Will try on a run today and then report back
> 
> those are touch buttons and so far I got them to play / pause nicely. The included booklet does not say anything about what else those buttons can do.


So, I finally took them out for a run ... and ... everything worked fine. No connection drops, no sudden battery death (actually still showing 40% after a 2h run) and they do sound pretty decent, and somehow the ‘thud’ was minimal (but there), fit was pretty awesome, did not feel the need to re-adjust any time. 

that being said: kids, don’t buy fakes! I might have gotten lucky but other batches of copy-ware might be super faulty, even this set I have could die any second 
The only legit reason to go cheap on these is if you are crazy about color coordinating your gear


----------



## Messi94

Pana RZ-S500W Still not available in canada neither those technics eah-az70w. Was very interested in trying those. They look good on paper


----------



## webvan (Aug 18, 2020)

chinmie said:


> other than the X12 and Nillkin Go, the other TWS that don't produce "walking thuds" is the Dyplay BQC35. if I'm not mistaken, @webvan already have a unit but don't like it too much?
> 
> it is quite bass heavy that i needed to use EQ at first, but lately i found the perfect eartips for it: reversed KZ starline tips. i use 1 size down to M from my usual tips (L). this hack cuts down the midbass by a lot but retains the subbass rumble, making this one of my favorite substitute for a full size headphones.
> 
> ...



Nope, I've never had the Dyplay BQC35 but now you have piqued my interest ! Can't see them on AE though and Amazon FR don't have them either...In any case it's not a bad idea to have less passive isolation if that avoids the "thud" and then throw in some ANC (even weaksauce) to help with the background noise. I suppose that's what the APPs do to some extent but they are horribly expensive and the thud was there when I ran with them.


----------



## MadMike

Caipirina said:


> Could you kindly check which version of the app you have?


I have the same version: 2.4.0

Weird!


----------



## VICosPhi

Caipirina said:


> Could you kindly check which version of the app you have?


Do you have a different device, an iPad, an Android phone that you can try with? I have seen similar issues being resolved when you change device and factory reset the buds


----------



## Caipirina

VICosPhi said:


> Do you have a different device, an iPad, an Android phone that you can try with? I have seen similar issues being resolved when you change device and factory reset the buds


great thought! Will try on son's android phone


----------



## Messi94

Caipirina said:


> So, I finally took them out for a run ... and ... everything worked fine. No connection drops, no sudden battery death (actually still showing 40% after a 2h run) and they do sound pretty decent, and somehow the ‘thud’ was minimal (but there), fit was pretty awesome, did not feel the need to re-adjust any time.
> 
> that being said: kids, don’t buy fakes! I might have gotten lucky but other batches of copy-ware might be super faulty, even this set I have could die any second
> The only legit reason to go cheap on these is if you are crazy about color coordinating your gear


haha that color coordination is dope. someone can buy different colors to go with different clothing.


----------



## Caipirina

MadMike said:


> I have the same version: 2.4.0
> 
> Weird!


Success!!!!


Deleted and redownloaded the app. Then it offered to update FW again. (Just before that it said FW is up to date) ... that actually took a few interrupted attempts and once that was done, tadaa, app had a new options. Does it make sense? Not really... but hey.


----------



## Messi94

@Caipirina, I see you have wide range of Tws, which one you prefer for overall features like call quality, fit, battery backup, if sound is not priority?


----------



## erockg

howdy said:


> How are you liking those? I've always like B&O but as @hifi80sman alluded to, they charge way to much for there name and don't offer a lot of features. I'll wait tell there under 200 before considering buying.


They def are pricey, but I had a wild hair and Amazon knocked $30 off.  They are just gorgeous.  The case is great and the buds have a wider circumference and fit snugger than the regular E8 v3.  Love the bass and the soundstage.  The quality is top notch IMO.  I recently purchased the Technics and the B&O just feel so much more premium.


----------



## Caipirina

Messi94 said:


> haha that color coordination is dope. someone can buy different colors to go with different clothing.


That’s the whole idea, hence I have 2 sets of X12  for those ‘blue’ days


----------



## erockg

actorlife said:


> Right now V.1 are $79 new on amazon. How is the app with firmware updates and sq settings and if you can describe the SQ? I have an older klipsch iem that I really loved. I still have them. They were $250 and got a sale for $80 bout 9 yrs ago. I forgot the model number right now, but they were thin. Edit.  Klipsch Image X10


The sound is great.  Wide soundstage.  Clear and precise sound.  The fit can be temperamental.  After a while of listening the bud will actually slide out of my one ear.  They go in pretty deep.  The app is temperamental.  It's tricky to get the firmware to take and you wind up having to do each bud separately.  That said, it did work.  Honestly, if I were you, I'd save the 79 and get the new model.  It'll have passthrough and looks like they've changed the way they fit.  I'm going to get the new version and flip my V1 at some point.


----------



## Messi94

Caipirina said:


> That’s the whole idea, hence I have 2 sets of X12  for those ‘blue’ days


looking dope, only true headfier can buy different TWS just to match with clothing lol


----------



## Caipirina

Messi94 said:


> @Caipirina, I see you have wide range of Tws, which one you prefer for overall features like call quality, fit, battery backup, if sound is not priority?


That’s a tricky question as I never mix music listening and phone calls. I detest phone calls!!! So, can’t say much about call quality. I would have to think long and hard what my current top
10 is. They all have their pros & cons. 
Will think about it. But for starters I can always recommend theSpunky Beats. And the Sabbat X12 for running.


----------



## erockg

For those who love their Earin M-2's, I had reached out about a possible sale on the M-2's and received the below email response back from Earin, looks like something new might be in the pipeline:

"
Thank you for your email.

Our stock of Earin M2 products are just about gone now.
We hope to release our next product in the coming months. I don´t know if we will reach out to our loyal customers with any kind offer though.

Regards,
Bjorn Andersson
Earin"


----------



## Messi94

Caipirina said:


> That’s a tricky question as I never mix music listening and phone calls. I detest phone calls!!! So, can’t say much about call quality. I would have to think long and hard what my current top
> 10 is. They all have their pros & cons.
> Will think about it. But for starters I can always recommend theSpunky Beats. And the Sabbat X12 for running.


Thanks for suggestions. Tronsmart making some good tws. Their apollo bold looks really good on paper


----------



## regancipher

Messi94 said:


> @Caipirina, I see you have wide range of Tws, which one you prefer for overall features like call quality, fit, battery backup, if sound is not priority?


Even that is too broad a set of criteria.
Even calls is too broad a set of criteria!

Boltune BT-BH024 are surprisingly good all rounders for calls, especially indoors.
Tronsmart Onyx Free / Neo and Tranya T10 also punch above their weight for calls


----------



## Messi94

ssouthall6 said:


> Even that is too broad a set of criteria.
> Even calls is too broad a set of criteria!
> 
> Boltune BT-BH024 are surprisingly good all rounders for calls, especially indoors.
> Tronsmart Onyx Free / Neo and Tranya T10 also punch above their weight for calls


Boltune BT-BH024, never heard of these, let me check some reviews.


----------



## howdy

erockg said:


> For those who love their Earin M-2's, I had reached out about a possible sale on the M-2's and received the below email response back from Earin, looks like something new might be in the pipeline:
> 
> "
> Thank you for your email.
> ...


Listening to the M2s right now. I hope they come out with a new one. They've been saying it for awhile now.


----------



## chinmie

ssouthall6 said:


> Even that is too broad a set of criteria.
> Even calls is too broad a set of criteria!
> 
> Boltune BT-BH024 are surprisingly good all rounders for calls, especially indoors.
> Tronsmart Onyx Free / Neo and Tranya T10 also punch above their weight for calls



really? does the onyx free sound good for calls? I'm really interested buying them because of the IPX 7 and the physical buttons, but i worried about the call quality after reading use reviews on AE and watching this


----------



## McArooni

I have a noob question regarding TWS. Does the source impact the sound quality of a TWS iem or headphone? I mean, smartphone, dedicated dap, laptop etc, would they all sound the same after a TWS iem receives the signal and amplifies it, or do sources retain their original sound?


----------



## assassin10000

McArooni said:


> I have a noob question regarding TWS. Does the source impact the sound quality of a TWS iem or headphone? I mean, smartphone, dedicated dap, laptop etc, would they all sound the same after a TWS iem receives the signal and amplifies it, or do sources retain their original sound?



Yes and no. If both have the same file, codec and signal strength, it shouldn't matter. That said: 

Implementation of the codec, bitrates and what codecs are available will make a difference. 

The BT available (4.1, 4.2, 5.0, etc.) and antenna on the source will effect overal signal & strength, (ie: possible stuttering or drop outs).


----------



## chinmie

McArooni said:


> I have a noob question regarding TWS. Does the source impact the sound quality of a TWS iem or headphone? I mean, smartphone, dedicated dap, laptop etc, would they all sound the same after a TWS iem receives the signal and amplifies it, or do sources retain their original sound?



if the scenarios are using the one same TWS:
from my own subjective experience, for APTX codec there's no difference in sound between BT 4.0 and BT 5.0 sources, but hear slight differences for AAC. i heard no difference between two device with the same BT version (for instance a phone and a dedicated DAP with the same BT version) 

the difference is really slight that it's borderline negligible though.


----------



## VICosPhi

For the most part, any two modern Bluetooth 4 or 5 devices running on identical ecosystem like Android, will sound extremely similar when playing compressed streaming or compressed local music. This is because the TWS buds have their own amp vs running from a DAC when you use wired earphones.

 However, implementation of codecs, especially AAC matters a lot, not just in source device but also in the TWS. My B&O H9i over ear sound really good for AAC. Similarly my MTW2 sound pretty bad on AAC. Jabra 75T sound better than MTW2 on AAC codec. All tested on Samsung Galaxy Note 10+ with streaming lossy music.


----------



## Tronsmart Official

Hi, guys, 
Tronsmart just announced a review program! Get FREE sample and also get the other prize!
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/【award-review】tronsmart-apollo-bold-review-program.940374/


----------



## McArooni

@chinmie @assassin10000 @VICosPhi  thanks to all of you for the feedback, that's one less thing to worry about then. I love the sound of my Ibasso dx160 but the bluetooth performance is godawful.I'm looking for some TWS for sports and will probably end up using them with my phone, since the source gear doesn't impact sound quality too much. My phone has fairly good BT performance, so I should be fine with that.


----------



## chinmie

so the Apollo Bold has finally arrived. 
i only been testing it for half an hour or so, but here's some of my initial impressions:

build quality is good. the unit itself are nicely built and looks classy. the case is light and small. it's plasticky, but i like the battery indicator and that the flap stays open and not slams itself shut. 

I'm never a big fan of touch buttons in general. here the buttons are responsive enough to the touch commands, but i think the touch area is too wide, as it always registers a touch everytime i try to put it on or remove it from my ears, and i did try to hold it on the edges. 

i also like that the touch won't register when removing it from the ears, but i really wish i can turn the auto pause function off. but i don't know if this unit will ever have an app support. 

now the sound. first, i want to confirm what other members already discovered: with ANC mode and Ambient mode on, the bass amount would increase quite a bit. with the stock tips, the ANC off mode has just enough of bass for my taste, so on ANC/Ambient mode (they share the same bass boost signature) it's a bit too much for me. 

compared to the Dyplay BQC35 that i have, it doesn't change sound signature at all, but the default sound is bassy as it is (think of the Jabra 65t unEQed).. and it's a bit similar to what this Apollo Bolt sound in ANC mode,with the Bolt sounded warmer and mids a bit reduced. 

so i tried using the Reversed KZ tips that i use with the Dyplay on the Bolt. the bass is reduced, but still a bit fatiguing, so might need a bit playtime to see if the bass would settle a bit more. 

i don't have a problem with the overall mids and treble of the Bolt, sounds good to me. 

ANC blocks to mid freq stronger than the Dyplay, but not as strong as XM3. granted, this also apply to the passive noise blocking, as the XM3 have better passive isolation than the Bolt, and the Dyplay basically almost doesn't block at all. 
using, plane cabin sound simulation, they all have a good job cutting out the rumbles, and let in chatters respective to their passive isolation capabilities. 

i also like the Ambient mode. you'll definitely know it's feeding through a mic, but it lets in clear sound. 

volume can also get crazy loud with this, so a lot of headroom for people who needs it

i haven't had the chance to test the battery life, call quality, and ipx rating capabilities yet. 

overall this is a solid product. Tronsmart did sent this to me for free, but i personally say this definitely worth the price.


----------



## Tronsmart Official

Hi, chinmie,
Thanks for your sharing! Apollo Bold will have an App to control all things. You can change the sound by EQ, and you can also control other function by it! 
As other audiophiles feedback, the sound will be amazing after you listen to some time! It needs time to burn-in.
Enjoy!


----------



## webvan

chinmie said:


> so the Apollo Bold has finally arrived.
> i only been testing it for half an hour or so, but here's some of my initial impressions:
> 
> build quality is good. the unit itself are nicely built and looks classy. the case is light and small. it's plasticky, but i like the battery indicator and that the flap stays open and not slams itself shut.
> ...



So that's three of us now hearing the deterioration (bass boost, muted highs) of the SQ with ANC ON so I'm not sure if there are different hardware/firmware versions out there (unlikely if not Tronsmart would have told us) or if some of our friends need to have their hearing checked!

I agree with your other comments as well, they're decent, ok SQ, poor passive isolation, ok ANC, but not worth the 90€ I paid for them, especially with the ANC SQ deterioration that makes listening to music impossible for me with ANC ON, so I'm sending them back.


----------



## chinmie

webvan said:


> So that's three of us now hearing the deterioration (bass boost, muted highs) of the SQ with ANC ON so I'm not sure if there are different hardware/firmware versions out there (unlikely if not Tronsmart would have told us) or if some of our friends need to have their hearing checked!
> 
> I agree with your other comments as well, they're decent, ok SQ, poor passive isolation, ok ANC, but not worth the 90€ I paid for them, especially with the ANC SQ deterioration that makes listening to music impossible for me with ANC ON, so I'm sending them back.



did you already sent them back? might want to try that KZ reversed tips if you still have it, to see if it works for you


----------



## phaeton70

webvan said:


> or if some of our friends need to have their hearing checked!



last time I checked my hearing was perfect for my age, actually I can hear more highs than usual for my age.
I can confirm that my pair of Apollo Bold show absolutely no difference in SQ going from ANC to Ambient to No-ANC. everything is perfectly the same to my ears. I have tested this in many situations (eq on/off, noisy/quiet environments, different tips, different smartphones). when I get back home I will also try something I haven't tried before, i.e. using AAC instead of aptX and see if something different.


----------



## extracampine

Rather than wade through the 1665 pages of this thread, can I be lazy and ask what the best true wireless earbuds are? SQ is the main factor, fit/comfort is also a factor, features and cost less so.


----------



## Sam L

anyone else notice some driver flex on their galaxy buds live? I know, weird, given their open design but I have some driver flex on the left side.


----------



## chinmie

phaeton70 said:


> last time I checked my hearing was perfect for my age, actually I can hear more highs than usual for my age.
> I can confirm that my pair of Apollo Bold show absolutely no difference in SQ going from ANC to Ambient to No-ANC. everything is perfectly the same to my ears. I have tested this in many situations (eq on/off, noisy/quiet environments, different tips, different smartphones). when I get back home I will also try something I haven't tried before, i.e. using AAC instead of aptX and see if something different.



might be a difference in firmware unit? maybe your unit is the newer one that doesn't have that problem. 

i know my unit definitely has that difference in sound modes, as well as @webvan  and several other members, I'm curious who else here who like you also have a unit with no sound variation


----------



## DB10

webvan said:


> So that's three of us now hearing the deterioration (bass boost, muted highs) of the SQ with ANC ON so I'm not sure if there are different hardware/firmware versions out there (unlikely if not Tronsmart would have told us) or if some of our friends need to have their hearing checked!
> 
> I agree with your other comments as well, they're decent, ok SQ, poor passive isolation, ok ANC, but not worth the 90€ I paid for them, especially with the ANC SQ deterioration that makes listening to music impossible for me with ANC ON, so I'm sending them back.





chinmie said:


> did you already sent them back? might want to try that KZ reversed tips if you still have it, to see if it works for you


Thanks for sharing your impressions, I was thinking about them, but I cannot stand with bassy iems so that they are not for me, definitely.

Have a nice day!


----------



## Tronsmart Official

DB10 said:


> Thanks for sharing your impressions, I was thinking about them, but I cannot stand with bassy iems so that they are not for me, definitely.
> 
> Have a nice day!


About the listening style, different people have different idea, but you can also switch by EQ on App. App will come next month!


----------



## Caipirina

webvan said:


> Nope, I've never had the Dyplay BQC35 but now you have piqued my interest ! Can't see them on AE though and Amazon FR don't have them either...In any case it's not a bad idea to have less passive isolation if that avoids the "thud" and then throw in some ANC (even weaksauce) to help with the background noise. I suppose that's what the APPs do to some extent but they are horribly expensive and the thud was there when I ran with them.


Happy to confirm what @chinmie said: Those Dyplay BCQ35 are mostly thudless!!! Magic. They also stayed in my ears much much better on today’s 21K run than I had anticipated. I expected to have to adjust them frequently and then trigger play pause. Nope, did not happen. BUT: ANC becomes useless, as it amplifies wind noise. So, turn off.


----------



## Caipirina

ssouthall6 said:


> Even that is too broad a set of criteria.
> Even calls is too broad a set of criteria!
> 
> Boltune BT-BH024 are surprisingly good all rounders for calls, especially indoors.
> Tronsmart Onyx Free / Neo and Tranya T10 also punch above their weight for calls


I always point at Scarbir for TWS wisdom. We agree mostly on qualifiers and he spent so much more time testing everything, categorizing nicely ...


----------



## DB10

Tronsmart Official said:


> About the listening style, different people have different idea, but you can also switch by EQ on App. App will come next month!


Hi! Thanks, that is true...I live in Spain, is there any discount available?

Thanks in advance.


----------



## chinmie

Caipirina said:


> I always point at Scarbir for TWS wisdom. We agree mostly on qualifiers and he spent so much more time testing everything, categorizing nicely ...



Scarbir is definitely the best to date when it comes to low to mid TWS, and one of the most pleasant website to navigate with all of the comparison and shootout he makes. 

his sound preference might be different from mine though but that is obviously a subjective thing to begin with.

I'm still on the fence about the Onyx Ace, because Scarbir rates it somewhat the lower tier compared to other earbuds alternatives like the Edifier and Soundpeats trueair, but watching Sean Talks Tech on YouTube, he said that Onyx ace is the best and alway suggesting it on every questions.. now I'm more confused


----------



## Caipirina

DB10 said:


> Hi! Thanks, that is true...I live in Spain, is there any discount available?
> 
> Thanks in advance.



Buy more, save more  






on amazon.de they are frequently in the 'Today's deal' section at 20€ cheaper (from 99€, we don't get the 94.99)


----------



## Caipirina (Aug 19, 2020)

I don't know why I am still on the fence with those Pana500 ... they are so good somehow, and then have terrible kinks on the other hand (like just now, the auto power off kicked in, and while I can power them back on with the touch pads, it seems they do not auto reconnect! Had to put them back in to box, wait, take out! Needless to say, I disabled auto power off now, sometimes I just like to keep them in my ears because of the ANC)

Did some A/Bing with the Sony xm3 today and noticed that somehow I am giving the Sony way too much leeway! Those suckers drop the connection very briefly more often than I would tolerate from any other buds ..  and soundwise .. sometimes I think they are equal, sometimes the Pana sounds better, then the Sony pulls ahead again ... 
I think just the fact that I can send the Panasonic back (but not the Sony) makes me question my commitment ...
On the other hand, I only paid 134€, while elsewhere it still sells for 170 ... so, i really should keep them .. no?  Argh
Plus, no new buds until ... Spring 21 maybe??? (well, the GBeans are supposed to still show up this weekend / Monday )


----------



## webvan (Aug 19, 2020)

Tronsmart Official said:


> About the listening style, different people have different idea, but you can also switch by EQ on App. App will come next month!



They're bassy but that's ok, and it's NOT the problem at least three of us are experiencing, i.e. the significant SQ (sound quality) deterioration with thumping bass and muted highs when ANC (and Ambient to a lesser extent) is turned ON and makes music frankly unlistenable and EQ in the upcoming App won't help with that. Surely you must have feedback about that problem ? Are their different hardware/firmware versions that could explain that ?


----------



## jant71 (Aug 19, 2020)

Most likely based on the FX99X earbuds we have these...

"JVC Kenwood will launch the HA-XC90T, a fully wireless earphone from the JVC brand, which is the top model in the XTREME XPLOSIVES series, which is based on the concept of "heavy bass & tough body" in late August. The price is open, but it is expected to sell for around 20,000 yen excluding tax.




"HA-XC90T"


JVC's fully wireless earphones use a driver unit with a maximum diameter of 12 mm. Furthermore, in order to maximize the capability of the driver unit, an independent acoustic chamber was installed in the housing, and the extreme tornado duct formed in a tornado shape properly controlled the movement of the diaphragm, aiming for realistic heavy bass reproduction with depth.

The main body is "TRIPLE PROOF" specification of the impact resistance and IP55 equivalent to THE rubber protector, and can be used in active scenes such as outdoor and street. About 15 hours only on the main body, music playback of about 45 hours can be performed in combination with the charging case.

Qualcomm's TrueWireless Stereo Plus is supported. In addition, Bluetooth supports the standard Ver.5.0 and Power Class 1, as well as a high-performance LDS antenna for stable connectivity. Codec supports SBC/AAC/aptX.

By adopting cVc technology and a high-performance MEMS microphone, clear hands-free calls can be made, and it can also be used for remote meetings during telework. In addition, it is possible to control such as volume adjustment by touch operation."

Not just for bassheads I would assume. The previous model had on board bass adjustment with a flat setting and my JVC have flat and bass setting. These add "talk through" as well.


----------



## DB10

Caipirina said:


> Buy more, save more
> 
> 
> 
> on amazon.de they are frequently in the 'Today's deal' section at 20€ cheaper (from 99€, we don't get the 94.99)


Thanks! I have so many models that I don't know what to do...


----------



## DB10

Caipirina said:


> I don't know why I am still on the fence with those Pana500 ... they are so good somehow, and then have terrible kinks on the other hand (like just now, the auto power off kicked in, and while I can power them back on with the touch pads, it seems they do not auto reconnect! Had to put them back in to box, wait, take out! Needless to say, I disabled auto power off now, sometimes I just like to keep them in my ears because of the ANC)
> 
> Did some A/Bing with the Sony xm3 today and noticed that somehow I am giving the Sony way too much leeway! Those suckers drop the connection very briefly more often than I would tolerate from any other buds ..  and soundwise .. sometimes I think they are equal, sometimes the Pana sounds better, then the Sony pulls ahead again ...
> I think just the fact that I can send the Panasonic back (but not the Sony) makes me question my commitment ...
> ...


Just the same with my XM3, they fall out my ears but they sound so good to me...


----------



## phaeton70

DB10 said:


> Thanks! I have so many models that I don't know what to do...



umh... if you live in EU, these https://promotion.geekbuying.com/promotion/tronsmart_apollo_bold_sale will sell for 80€  shipping from IT or ES


----------



## malfario (Aug 19, 2020)

webvan said:


> So that's three of us now hearing the deterioration (bass boost, muted highs) of the SQ with ANC ON so I'm not sure if there are different hardware/firmware versions out there (unlikely if not Tronsmart would have told us) or if some of our friends need to have their hearing checked!
> 
> I agree with your other comments as well, they're decent, ok SQ, poor passive isolation, ok ANC, but not worth the 90€ I paid for them, especially with the ANC SQ deterioration that makes listening to music impossible for me with ANC ON, so I'm sending them back.



Just tried my new set of Apollo's and they are just like you describe it: bassy and muddy when ANC or Ambient Mode is turned on.
I'll give them a chance and see if break-in changes anything after a few days, although I'm not too positive about it though.

Edit: Wording


----------



## regancipher

chinmie said:


> really? does the onyx free sound good for calls? I'm really interested buying them because of the IPX 7 and the physical buttons, but i worried about the call quality after reading use reviews on AE and watching this




My recordings sounded nothing like that. They aren't great for outdoor calls - ambient noise kills them. They've removed the mic from the inside and only have one placed on the outside of each bud. For home office they're perfectly fine, but if calls are your sole priority there are alternative products.


----------



## DB10

phaeton70 said:


> umh... if you live in EU, these https://promotion.geekbuying.com/promotion/tronsmart_apollo_bold_sale will sell for 80€  shipping from IT or ES



Hi!!! thanks for your link, it seems to be quite a good offer but I don't know if based on your reviews is the best option for me...

The limit to return my Sonys XM3 to Amazon is coming and although you have presented me some alternatives and good options I listen to them again and they sound so good to me, but they continue falling out from my ears...what a pity. It is quite a difficult decision if I should keep them or send them back.


----------



## Shadowclash10

McArooni said:


> I have a noob question regarding TWS. Does the source impact the sound quality of a TWS iem or headphone? I mean, smartphone, dedicated dap, laptop etc, would they all sound the same after a TWS iem receives the signal and amplifies it, or do sources retain their original sound?


Ooh, good question.

The source's DAC doesn't matter for TWS.
What does matter are codecs, codec implementation, and the source file (BT versions are also important, but not for sound quality).
Codecs: SBC, AAC, aptX, aptX LL, aptX HD, LDAC.
All Bluetooth devices can use SBC - but generally SBC sounds bad. Generally all non-Mac devices (so Windows and Linux PCs) will only come with SBC.
AAC is the only other codec iOS devices and Mac devices have besides SBC.
AAC is also pretty common on Android, but AAC isn't very good on Android (it just doesn't work as well).
So, AAC sounds pretty decent on iOS, but generally not too good on Android.
aptX, aptX LL, and aptX HD are Qualcomm codecs - all of them are generally available on recent Android phones and and also daps.
Do note that aptX LL doesn't focus on sound quality - it focuses on low latency for movies/videos and games.
LDAC is a Sony codec, it has the highest possible bit rate at 990kbps, but its performance isn't as good as its competitor, aptX HD.
aptX HD, aptX LL, and LDAC aren't very common on TWS anyway, you'll generally only find SBC, AAC, and aptX. And aptX LL has been "discontinued" anyway.
There is also aptX Adaptive, which is quite good, because it features a variable bitrate, but as far as I know, no TWS have it, and I don't even know if any mainstream wireless headphones/earbuds have it either.
And there's Samsung Scalable Codec, which is kinda like the Samsung version of aptX Adaptive, but it's limited to Samsung phones, tablets, and earbuds.
So you'll generally find TWS with: SBC and AAC, or SBC and aptX.
I think that's it .


----------



## Shadowclash10

extracampine said:


> Rather than wade through the 1665 pages of this thread, can I be lazy and ask what the best true wireless earbuds are? SQ is the main factor, fit/comfort is also a factor, features and cost less so.


Well, what would be nice to know: is what is your price? Are we talking a budget of $300, $150, $50, what? What will your source device be? Computer, Android phone, iOS phone? And features... do you care about battery life, ANC, what.


----------



## Sam L

DB10 said:


> Hi!!! thanks for your link, it seems to be quite a good offer but I don't know if based on your reviews is the best option for me...
> 
> The limit to return my Sonys XM3 to Amazon is coming and although you have presented me some alternatives and good options I listen to them again and they sound so good to me, but they continue falling out from my ears...what a pity. It is quite a difficult decision if I should keep them or send them back.


Yeah it can be frustrating. I use dual flange eartips from RHA. You'd be surprised how quite a few regular iem eartips will still fit in the sony xm3 case.


----------



## erockg

Caipirina said:


> I don't know why I am still on the fence with those Pana500 ... they are so good somehow, and then have terrible kinks on the other hand (like just now, the auto power off kicked in, and while I can power them back on with the touch pads, it seems they do not auto reconnect! Had to put them back in to box, wait, take out! Needless to say, I disabled auto power off now, sometimes I just like to keep them in my ears because of the ANC)
> 
> Did some A/Bing with the Sony xm3 today and noticed that somehow I am giving the Sony way too much leeway! Those suckers drop the connection very briefly more often than I would tolerate from any other buds ..  and soundwise .. sometimes I think they are equal, sometimes the Pana sounds better, then the Sony pulls ahead again ...
> I think just the fact that I can send the Panasonic back (but not the Sony) makes me question my commitment ...
> ...


I have the Technics which are basically an upgraded version of the Panasonic with a bigger driver inside.  I have zero issues and love using them to watch TV at night while the family sleeps.


----------



## DB10

Sam L said:


> Yeah it can be frustrating. I use dual flange eartips from RHA. You'd be surprised how quite a few regular iem eartips will still fit in the sony xm3 case.


Hi,

thanks for your suggestion @Sam L , I am trying some of the Complys I have, some SpinFit...but when I walk, they fall out, it is quite a shame, of course, for sport I will need to look something different...all of you have suggested me interesting models, specially Sabat X12, but I would like to have "one pair for all" that could suit me both for sport and for listening music but I am afraid, based on all the information, that they will now sound as good...

I was considering the Lypertek Tevi or the Cambridge Audio ME1 as alternatives, but I am quite confused.

Thanks!!


----------



## Shadowclash10

Yayy! Got my Galaxy Buds Plus for $100 from Verizon thanks to @VICosPhi . I'll post a full review once I've spent some for time with them.

I think these are the TWS for me. $100 isn't that bad (they should be getting frequently discounted to $100 now that the Buds Live are out), it's on the upper limit of chi-fi actually. Without wingtips, these things are insanely comfortable. Wingtips are less comfortable, but I do prefer to have them on when exercising. The settings you choose stay with the buds, no need for the app to be on the source device. Using the app, I'm able to have full controls (pause/play, skip/go back, ambient on/off, and volume using the Labs features). The case is very pocketable, though I wish it wasn't so glossy. Battery life is amazing - no need to stress out when using these on a long stress. Sadly, total combined battery life is only 22 hours, but to be honest, whenever I'm in a situation where I need more than 22 hours while travelling, I'll have my battery pack with me anyway. I'm actually using these with an iPhone, and it's still great. Ambient doesn't sound very lifelike, and it amplifies some sounds (like running water, crumpling paper) waay more than other sounds. However, this does mean that voices get amplified, which is what you use ambient for anyway. So ambient is good. I haven't really tested the mics yet, but reviewers like them, so... I honestly haven't had problems with the touchpads being overly sensitive, like some people say. The only big complaint that I have is that SQ isn't too great. Interestingly, I have no problems with the bass on these - and I listen to alt rock, which has a good amount of bass. What I do have a problem with is the fact that sometimes they sound tinny. I'll try experimenting with the EQ, and all of that. IMO it's probably something that can/will be fixed through EQ/tips. All in all, I really ike these so far.


----------



## Caipirina

erockg said:


> I have the Technics which are basically an upgraded version of the Panasonic with a bigger driver inside.  I have zero issues and love using them to watch TV at night while the family sleeps.


maybe i should upgrade to those


----------



## phaeton70 (Aug 19, 2020)

DB10 said:


> Hi!!! thanks for your link, it seems to be quite a good offer but I don't know if based on your reviews is the best option for me...
> ........



yes, I agree with that. given that Tronsmart already clarified that there aren't two different versions (hw and/or fw) I'm starting to think that it's me having a faulty pair, since everyone else find these earbuds basically unplayable with ANC (which is the default mode).
until we get a final clarification on what's happening, I cannot honestly suggest these earbuds to anyone unfortunately.
that being said, I reconfirm once again (just finished trying in a very quiet room) that my pair sound the same (or if there is a difference it's inaudible to me) with ANC on or off, with AAC and aptX. and I find the sound of my Apollo pair absolutely gorgeous at this pricepoint (of course it's only IMHO).


----------



## regancipher

phaeton70 said:


> yes, I agree with that. given that Tronsmart already clarified that there aren't two different versions (hw and/or fw) I'm starting to think that it's me having a faulty pair, since everyone else find these earbuds basically unplayable with ANC (which is the default mode).
> until we get a final clarification on what's happening, I cannot honestly suggest these earbuds to anyone unfortunately.
> that being said, I reconfirm once again (just finished trying in a very quiet room) that my pair sound the same (or if there is a difference it's inaudible to me) with ANC on or off, with AAC and aptX. and I find the sound of my Apollo pair absolutely gorgeous at this pricepoint (of course it's only IMHO).


Nope, it's not just you. Mine are sensational. 

The Nillkin TW004 are on offer on Amazon at the moment, I thought about picking up a pair as I am really struggling to find anything to match the Tronsmart and my list is almost exhausted!


----------



## actorlife

Tronsmart Official said:


> Hi, guys,
> Tronsmart just announced a review program! Get FREE sample and also get the other prize!
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/【award-review】tronsmart-apollo-bold-review-program.940374/


I sent my info hope I get picked!


----------



## Coniboy

Hi, I'm searching for my first wireless earbuds for workout. 

I want something under 30, best cheap crap. Any Suggestions?


----------



## Shadowclash10

Coniboy said:


> Hi, I'm searching for my first wireless earbuds for workout.
> 
> I want something under 30, best cheap crap. Any Suggestions?


Earhooks or no earhooks? Android or iOS? Anything else important?


----------



## clerkpalmer

Shadowclash10 said:


> Well, what would be nice to know: is what is your price? Are we talking a budget of $300, $150, $50, what? What will your source device be? Computer, Android phone, iOS phone? And features... do you care about battery life, ANC, what.



I think right now, the best options for sound quality are:  (1) MTW2; (2) MW07 Plus or Go; (3) AKG N400 or (4) Nuarl N6 Pro.  Fit is subjective but on my experience I would rank fit in order best to worse as follows:  (1) MTW2; (2) AKG; (3) Nuarl; and (4) MW07.


----------



## Coniboy

Shadowclash10 said:


> Earhooks or no earhooks? Android or iOS? Anything else important?


No earhooks, and Android. 

It's just for sports, but I don't like crispy sound, I prefer warm sound.


----------



## Coniboy

And I like Chinese stuff, cheap, etc.... So I'm ok to order on Ali.


----------



## clerkpalmer (Aug 19, 2020)

Coniboy said:


> No earhooks, and Android.
> 
> It's just for sports, but I don't like crispy sound, I prefer warm sound.


Edit - crossing threads.  I just grabbed the Mpow M30 for cycling.  They are decent.


----------



## Shadowclash10

clerkpalmer said:


> I think right now, the best options for sound quality are:  (1) MTW2; (2) MW07 Plus or Go; (3) AKG N400 or (4) Nuarl N6 Pro.  Fit is subjective but on my experience I would rank fit in order best to worse as follows:  (1) MTW2; (2) AKG; (3) Nuarl; and (4) MW07.


Yeah, I agree with the SQ rankings. Some people also really like the WF-1000XM3s. I'd say you can juggle those 5 picks around - some people like some more than others, but I think they are all top of the line. For fit are you only including the ones on the SQ list? Cause otherwise those aren't _the _most comfortable.


----------



## Shadowclash10

clerkpalmer said:


> Edit - crossing threads.  I just grabbed the Mpow M30 for cycling.  They are decent.


Yeah . I was just gonna say that @Coniboy wanted something under $30 . I'd second the M30 - virtually everyone loves them. High IP rating, and also in-ear wingtips. The only concern is that they are SBC only (weird), but in all honestly it doesn't matter if a TWS is SBC only as long as it still delivers on sound.


----------



## Shadowclash10

clerkpalmer said:


> I think right now, the best options for sound quality are:  (1) MTW2; (2) MW07 Plus or Go; (3) AKG N400 or (4) Nuarl N6 Pro.  Fit is subjective but on my experience I would rank fit in order best to worse as follows:  (1) MTW2; (2) AKG; (3) Nuarl; and (4) MW07.


Oh, and of course this list only applies if @extracampine is going for the standard market and not chi-fi.


----------



## emusic13

My TE-BD21f finally arrived after a whopping 2 days straight from Japan   These sound great! It's probably the closest to wired I have heard.


----------



## dasadab

emusic13 said:


> My TE-BD21f finally arrived after a whopping 2 days straight from Japan   These sound great! It's probably the closest to wired I have heard.


Can you be more specific in what you are comparing them to in terms of other wireless headphones. From the specs and marketing, they sound well thought out. I would rather spend money and buy one great pair then waste money and buy three average ones.  My suspicion is that it’s going to be very difficult for Bluetooth earbuds to match the quality of wired, simply because they lack a powerful enough amp. Maybe efficiency in the components will change that in the future.


----------



## clerkpalmer

emusic13 said:


> straight


0


dasadab said:


> Can you be more specific in what you are comparing them to in terms of other wireless headphones. From the specs and marketing, they sound well thought out. I would rather spend money and buy one great pair then waste money and buy three average ones.  My suspicion is that it’s going to be very difficult for Bluetooth earbuds to match the quality of wired, simply because they lack a powerful enough amp. Maybe efficiency in the components will change that in the future.



To piggyback on this, how much are these in USD? They look HUGE.  Like giant ear cannons.  Still intrigued.


----------



## Shadowclash10

clerkpalmer said:


> To piggyback on this, how much are these in USD? They look HUGE.  Like giant ear cannons.  Still intrigued.


It looks like they are greater than $200? Japanese TWS seem to be far more expensive than chi-fi.


----------



## jasonb

So I still don't know what to think of these Galaxy Beans. It seems that every time I put them in they sound different and it has to be because of how I put them in and how far the nozzle where the sound comes out of is to my ear holes. I've thought they were far too bassy and then this time I put them in and twisted and pulled back so they weren't close to my ear holes and now they sound pretty good. Using the normal EQ setting right now with some small tweaks in the Wavelet EQ app. 

Some times I put these in and I'm annoyed with how they sound and other times they sound pretty damn good.


----------



## clerkpalmer

jasonb said:


> So I still don't know what to think of these Galaxy Beans. It seems that every time I put them in they sound different and it has to be because of how I put them in and how far the nozzle where the sound comes out of is to my ear holes. I've thought they were far too bassy and then this time I put them in and twisted and pulled back so they weren't close to my ear holes and now they sound pretty good. Using the normal EQ setting right now with some small tweaks in the Wavelet EQ app.
> 
> Some times I put these in and I'm annoyed with how they sound and other times they sound pretty damn good.


This happens to me too.  I tried the larger rubber things and thought I preferred the sound and seal but I read they are designed for people with small ears and aren't designed to improve seal.  I switched back and prefer them with the installed rubber tips.  I think they sound best when they are not jammed in for a seal but just resting in there.  It gives them and open quality that I think was the intended purpose.  Overall, they sound good but not great to me but they have quickly taken over my APP as my preferred TWS for working and taking calls during the day.  I don't have to adjust them like the APP all day.


----------



## voicemaster

Sam L said:


> anyone else notice some driver flex on their galaxy buds live? I know, weird, given their open design but I have some driver flex on the left side.


Nope, you probably jammed it too much.


----------



## Coniboy

Shadowclash10 said:


> Yeah . I was just gonna say that @Coniboy wanted something under $30 . I'd second the M30 - virtually everyone loves them. High IP rating, and also in-ear wingtips. The only concern is that they are SBC only (weird), but in all honestly it doesn't matter if a TWS is SBC only as long as it still delivers on sound.


Thanks. So mpow m30 is best choice ? Nothing else?


----------



## clerkpalmer

Coniboy said:


> Thanks. So mpow m30 is best choice ? Nothing else?


Check out Scarbir's website for alternatives.  He liked the Mpow for sports.  The Fiio T1X is available for a few bucks more but he commented they can get a little squishy around sweat.  The Bowmaker is also in that range.  I don't think you can go wrong with any of them.  I'd probably just grab the one that is the cheapest ...


----------



## voicemaster

clerkpalmer said:


> This happens to me too.  I tried the larger rubber things and thought I preferred the sound and seal but I read they are designed for people with small ears and aren't designed to improve seal.  I switched back and prefer them with the installed rubber tips.  I think they sound best when they are not jammed in for a seal but just resting in there.  It gives them and open quality that I think was the intended purpose.  Overall, they sound good but not great to me but they have quickly taken over my APP as my preferred TWS for working and taking calls during the day.  I don't have to adjust them like the APP all day.


Exactly what I've been saying all this time, but people are either ignoring it or what, not really my problem tho.


----------



## jant71 (Aug 19, 2020)

clerkpalmer said:


> To piggyback on this, how much are these in USD? They look HUGE.  Like giant ear cannons.  Still intrigued.



They are, IIRC, A triple driver hybrid. So, they are not gonna be able to be that small. An admirable job in 2019( smidge over a year old now) for all the stuff that goes inside.


----------



## Francesco Montanari

Ciao guys!

Fiil T1XS in my hands finally! First impressions: they are absultely amazing: mini case, super comfortable, NO DRIVER FLEX while chewing or walking, audio part is the best: same amazing sound of T1X but with wider sound stage and detailed sound. Really love them. Ambient mode works very good (except in windy environment obviously) and also auto play/pause sensor.

App at the moment is only the chinese one and it adds new feature such: DSP activation, 3 levels of low latency (music, film and game) and the case charge %.

I cannot believe the cost only 50$


----------



## Shadowclash10

Francesco Montanari said:


> I cannot believe the cost only 50$


Is the price different from outside the US? Because in the US it's $80, and the Fiil T1X is $50.


----------



## emusic13

Instead of saying best wireless I've heard since I've only heard a few, its more along the lines of it sounds like a wired IEM. I had the Momentum TW and I would say this is a pretty big step up. Sounds better than the IE 80s BT I tried as well. I would say the Aviot sounds neutral with slight emphasis in sub bass. It's quite detailed from the BA drivers inside. Pretty impressed that wireless IEMs have come this far. There is good isolation although I do hear a slight hiss that is pretty much inaudible when music starts playing and completely silent when paused. The hiss I assume is from the amp that needs to power both the Dynamic and BA driver. Only cons so far is that the opening of the case is narrower than wanted and yes, it does stick out of my ears like Frankenstein lol but I bought it for sound quality only. I've attached a picture showing the size compared to my InEar Stagediver. I should mention the Aviot are pretty light as well.


----------



## jasonb (Aug 19, 2020)

Not to keep posting about the Galaxy Beans (Buds Live) over and over, but I'm starting to really like these. I'm starting to find how to wear them and they sound good to me on the "normal" EQ setting now which is awesome. Bass isn't over done, and the treble isn't under done either. I was going to return them to Best Buy tomorrow, but now I'm pretty sure I'm going to keep them.


----------



## tgx78

Apollo Bold is here.
I am still burning it in as graphene coated drivers usually take some time to settle, but overall I am liking it so far.
It actually outperforms the N400 in terms of ANC in my studio with constant A/C hum.
But as everyone is finding out, its bass with ANC turned on is quite overpowering and borderline fatigue inducing.
Hope they come out with the app with good EQ implementation soon. Mids and Highs are generally clean and snappy sounding.
When ANC or the ambient sound mode it turned off, sound is better balanced and I can see the potential of the driver used here.
I am currently playing it on my apple (AAC) but after few days, I will try it on my secondary android phones and play around with some EQing.
Connection is really good so far in my 1000 sq. ft. studio.


----------



## newtophones07

emusic13 said:


> Instead of saying best wireless I've heard since I've only heard a few, its more along the lines of it sounds like a wired IEM. I had the Momentum TW and I would say this is a pretty big step up. Sounds better than the IE 80s BT I tried as well. I would say the Aviot sounds neutral with slight emphasis in sub bass. It's quite detailed from the BA drivers inside. Pretty impressed that wireless IEMs have come this far. There is good isolation although I do hear a slight hiss that is pretty much inaudible when music starts playing and completely silent when paused. The hiss I assume is from the amp that needs to power both the Dynamic and BA driver. Only cons so far is that the opening of the case is narrower than wanted and yes, it does stick out of my ears like Frankenstein lol but I bought it for sound quality only. I've attached a picture showing the size compared to my InEar Stagediver. I should mention the Aviot are pretty light as well.



Where did you buy them from and how is the in call mic?


----------



## emusic13

newtophones07 said:


> Where did you buy them from and how is the in call mic?


I ordered them from Amazon JP. They shipped out via DHL which is why it was so fast. Unfortunately, I haven't really tested the mic since I only plan to use them to listen to music. I did call myself though and it sounds pretty clear. If you order them, for music they really do sound great  Been listening to them nonstop since they arrived this afternoon.


----------



## Shadowclash10

tgx78 said:


> Apollo Bold is here.
> I am still burning it in as graphene coated drivers usually take some time to settle, but overall I am liking it so far.
> It actually outperforms the N400 in terms of ANC in my studio with constant A/C hum.
> But as everyone is finding out, its bass with ANC turned on is quite overpowering and borderline fatigue inducing.
> ...


That's pretty cool that the ANC is better! 

Yeah, most people seem to have _really_ boosted bass with ANC on. And it must be super jarring for you, since the N400s sound so good .


----------



## Shadowclash10

jasonb said:


> Not to keep posting about the Galaxy Beans (Buds Live) over and over, but I'm starting to really like these. I'm starting to find how to wear them and they sound good to me on the "normal" EQ setting now which is awesome. Bass isn't over done, and the treble isn't under done wither. I was going to return them to Best Buy tomorrow, but now I'm pretty sure I'm going to keep them.


Nice! I mean, I would never go with open-style personally, but that's just my personal preference. It's nice to know that some people actually really do enjoy using these. How's the fit? Oh, and when did you get them?


----------



## Shadowclash10

So I was complaining a bit about ambient on the Buds Plus... IMHO I just had to get used to them. I've been using these alot since I got them, and ambient feels much more natural now. I think the fact that they amplfy "sharp" sounds is a side affect of focusing on amplifying voices. It's fine though. One cool side effect is that I sadly couldn't buy a loud mechanical keyboard (think Cherry MX Blues) because the click-clack would bother everyone - I had to buy a quiet mech keyboard(think MX Browns) but I really miss that click .  But now, If I'm wearing my Buds + with ambient on, my quiet mech keyboard sounds just like a clicky one, because ambient amplifies sharp noises! IE thanks to ambient, I feel like I have a loud mechanical keyboard instead of the quiet one that I actually own, but it doesn't bother anyone!


----------



## TK33

Sam L said:


> anyone else notice some driver flex on their galaxy buds live? I know, weird, given their open design but I have some driver flex on the left side.


None for me yet.  I fell asleep with these on today and they were the first that I didnt have to fish out from under my bed or find under my back or wrapped around me.


----------



## newtophones07

emusic13 said:


> I ordered them from Amazon JP. They shipped out via DHL which is why it was so fast. Unfortunately, I haven't really tested the mic since I only plan to use them to listen to music. I did call myself though and it sounds pretty clear. If you order them, for music they really do sound great  Been listening to them nonstop since they arrived this afternoon.



Are these the TE-D01?


----------



## emusic13

newtophones07 said:


> Are these the TE-D01?


Aviot te-bd21f


----------



## Coniboy

Shadowclash10 said:


> Yeah . I was just gonna say that @Coniboy wanted something under $30 . I'd second the M30 - virtually everyone loves them. High IP rating, and also in-ear wingtips. The only concern is that they are SBC only (weird), but in all honestly it doesn't matter if a TWS is SBC only as long as it still delivers on sound.




Thanks. And what about Xiaomi airdots?


----------



## regancipher

Coniboy said:


> Thanks. And what about Xiaomi airdots?


I sent mine back the same day. They were junk.


----------



## regancipher (Aug 20, 2020)

Everyone who is experiencing this overpowering bass on the Apollo Bold, what tips are you using?

I tried two sets of foam tips and the noise cancellation and sound quality worsened (trimmed inairs, my usual go to, and ikko I-planet, which are designed to fit in the case for the jabra 65's and fitted the bold nicely)

I then went back to the original silicones (the smaller set) and the ANC and SQ came to life.

As an experiment, since @phaeton70 recommend it, I tried the larger stock silicones last night. Fit looked better in the mirror but didn't feel quite as secure. ANC didn't change but the bass definitely opened out, in fact the whole sound did. I've left them on to do some acoustic testing if I get chance this morning, there was no clipping or anything that suggested anything untoward but there was this obvious 'oomph' people are talking about.


----------



## malfario

ssouthall6 said:


> Everyone who is experiencing this overpowering bass on the Apollo Bold, what tips are you using?



I'm using the ones that come pre-installed.


----------



## chinmie

ssouthall6 said:


> Everyone who is experiencing this overpowering bass on the Apollo Bold, what tips are you using?



i used the KZ reversed mod eartips at first.. sounded good, but turns out it wouldn't charge inside the case, so I'm now using a Symbio peel tips.


----------



## phaeton70

so maybe I discovered something about the Apollo. yesterday I had them tried by an "audiophile" friend, and ask him if he could hear anything different w/ ANC on (w/o being specific on the difference so that to not influence). interestingly enough, he did say he could hear a slight sub-bass (under 60Hz) boom when ANC was on... ouch  ... so I tried the Apollo and.... the volume he was using was much higher than I use to listen to, and yes at this volume I can hear a sub-bass increase when ANC or Ambient is on, while I'm still hearing no difference in the mids/highs. so I asked him to listen again to a lower volume (similar to what I'm used to) and...surprise...he could hear no difference.... increasing confusion....


----------



## Francesco Montanari

Shadowclash10 said:


> Is the price different from outside the US? Because in the US it's $80, and the Fiil T1X is $50.


On AliExpress they cost 55 dollars


----------



## Caipirina

actorlife said:


> I sent my info hope I get picked!


Oh wow. What info they want ...
“What TWS earbuds you have now:”
That’s gonna take a while ...


----------



## regancipher

phaeton70 said:


> so maybe I discovered something about the Apollo. yesterday I had them tried by an "audiophile" friend, and ask him if he could hear anything different w/ ANC on (w/o being specific on the difference so that to not influence). interestingly enough, he did say he could hear a slight sub-bass (under 60Hz) boom when ANC was on... ouch  ... so I tried the Apollo and.... the volume he was using was much higher than I use to listen to, and yes at this volume I can hear a sub-bass increase when ANC or Ambient is on, while I'm still hearing no difference in the mids/highs. so I asked him to listen again to a lower volume (similar to what I'm used to) and...surprise...he could hear no difference.... increasing confusion....


Blimey. I can't even hear that low!

I tested today, and got completely different performance from the larger tips - much bassier, ANC still as strong, but feel like they could fall out...very odd. 

Also, different behaviour on AAC. Very clear top end mids, totally different to the previous tips. Not sure which I prefer so I think I'll test some different silicones, which seem to be better suited to these.


----------



## DB10

phaeton70 said:


> yes, I agree with that. given that Tronsmart already clarified that there aren't two different versions (hw and/or fw) I'm starting to think that it's me having a faulty pair, since everyone else find these earbuds basically unplayable with ANC (which is the default mode).
> until we get a final clarification on what's happening, I cannot honestly suggest these earbuds to anyone unfortunately.
> that being said, I reconfirm once again (just finished trying in a very quiet room) that my pair sound the same (or if there is a difference it's inaudible to me) with ANC on or off, with AAC and aptX. and I find the sound of my Apollo pair absolutely gorgeous at this pricepoint (of course it's only IMHO).


Hi, thanks @phaeton70, it is quite a risk order them with all those problems, but the sound seems to be (based on the reviews) quite good but a bit bassy.

All the best,


----------



## baskingshark

Just a headsup, there's an Aliexpress sale coming on 24/08/20. Forecasted sale prices are available already.

For wireless gear, I'm quite interested in the new TRN BT20S Pro, seems the forecasted sale price is $63 before coupons in multiple stores. Potential TRN QC issues aside, this is too pricey for me to bite at this price, plus those sellers are not selling the detachable modules separately, bummer! Bad marketing move on their part, the whole point of the swappable modules is so we can interchange 2 pin and MMCX type IEMs on the go!

Any other good Aliexpress TWS offers on the upcoming sales that you guys can share?


----------



## Caipirina

Another odd thing with the MY Apollos (this feels like an isolated case) ... I wonder if anyone else has that: they do not auto connect to last device! When I take out of box, they wait a bit and then say ‘looking for device’
I think I might have ‘done’ something wrong in the beginning when I tried to change connection from device to device and they flunked out on my while they were connected to my TempoTec .... after that the 2 buds did not even connect to each other. After trying then all kinds of resets and random button / click combos I eventually got them to connect again. But the auto connect is missing.
maybe @Tronsmart Official knows?
really looking forward to the app. And hopefully by September Apple has not been told to remove ALL Chinese apps from AppStore. It’s 2020, you never know what else happens.


----------



## webvan

Before sending them back I thought I'd give the Apollo a last try with Final E tips as someone mentioned they were using them with good results. They do seem to help with passive isolation compared to the stock tips but the buds don't recharge with them even though they seem to fit normally in the case...I thought the case had gone defective on my but after removing the tips they are now charging (three red "beeps" every 5 seconds). Let's see how that goes !


----------



## AudioNoob

webvan said:


> Before sending them back I thought I'd give the Apollo a last try with Final E tips as someone mentioned they were using them with good results. They do seem to help with passive isolation compared to the stock tips but the buds don't recharge with them even though they seem to fit normally in the case...I thought the case had gone defective on my but after removing the tips they are now charging (three red "beeps" every 5 seconds). Let's see how that goes !


Yeah I realized that yesterday, if I press the tips really down on the stem they charge but after removing from ear they sometimes dont. I think Sednas might be worth a shot. I dont have them


----------



## Sebulr

I'm after a new set of tws in ears for side sleeping. My needs are 1. comfort 2. No blinking lights. 3. No touch Controls as I sleep on my side. Price about £50 any ideas? 
I would use bomaker sifi 1, but they have blinking lights and the tips get pushed too far into my ear as they are slightly too small for my cavernous ear holes. I'm fed up of having touch controls turning off the bud on my pillow. 

On a side note. I killed my mifo 05s.  I burst the diaphragm with an industrial air line. Served myself right really.


----------



## chinmie

Caipirina said:


> Another odd thing with the MY Apollos (this feels like an isolated case) ... I wonder if anyone else has that: they do not auto connect to last device! When I take out of box, they wait a bit and then say ‘looking for device’



my unit would connect automatically to last device, like my other TWSs. maybe a complete unpair and re-pairing on all devices would correct the problem on yours? 



webvan said:


> Before sending them back I thought I'd give the Apollo a last try with Final E tips as someone mentioned they were using them with good results. They do seem to help with passive isolation compared to the stock tips but the buds don't recharge with them even though they seem to fit normally in the case...I thought the case had gone defective on my but after removing the tips they are now charging (three red "beeps" every 5 seconds). Let's see how that goes !



I've been using Symbio peels on mine, they can charge normally, unlike the reversed KZ tips that i previously used on them


----------



## webvan

So I was able to recharge the Apollos and gave them a try with the Final E LL and...same problem with ANC/Ambient ON, no real surprise since it has to be a problem with the "programming" of the QC chip. Hopefully it's not a hardware problem (placement of the mics used for ANC) and it can be fixed with a firmware update but since Tronsmart have yet to acknowledge a problem it remains to be seen...in any case I'm done with them and will be sending them back.


----------



## Caipirina

AudioNoob said:


> Yeah I realized that yesterday, if I press the tips really down on the stem they charge but after removing from ear they sometimes dont. I think Sednas might be worth a shot. I dont have them


And this is why I added some ad hoc padding (will replace with foam when I get some) inside the lid


----------



## Caipirina

chinmie said:


> my unit would connect automatically to last device, like my other TWSs. maybe a complete unpair and re-pairing on all devices would correct the problem on yours?



maybe. Or I end up again with 2 buds not syncing.  Will wait if app / fw offers some easier solution of disconnecting & re-pairing


----------



## actorlife (Aug 20, 2020)

Caipirina said:


> Oh wow. What info they want ...
> “What TWS earbuds you have now:”
> That’s gonna take a while ...


That’s why I linked my overviews haha. Have like 12 now. I’m pretty sure those Tronsport will be to my liking. You have 40 now correct? ✌️🤣👌😉


----------



## baskingshark

baskingshark said:


> Just a headsup, there's an Aliexpress sale coming on 24/08/20. Forecasted sale prices are available already.
> 
> For wireless gear, I'm quite interested in the new TRN BT20S Pro, seems the forecasted sale price is $63 before coupons in multiple stores. Potential TRN QC issues aside, this is too pricey for me to bite at this price, plus those sellers are not selling the detachable modules separately, bummer! Bad marketing move on their part, the whole point of the swappable modules is so we can interchange 2 pin and MMCX type IEMs on the go!
> 
> Any other good Aliexpress TWS offers on the upcoming sales that you guys can share?



Ok just browsed Aliexpress, and some of the the shops selling the TRN BT20S Pro do sell the module thing separately for 2 pin/MMCX detachable modules. Search for "*TRN BT20S PRO Cable*" and I think they are selling individual modules at 8 bucks or so. Strangely, it is sold as another item on a different listing. Not sure why the shops don't just bundle everything in and give a better discount.

So with a $63 USD TRN BT20S Pro (with charging case), and adding say one detachable module, that is north of $70 USD! Pretty pricey!


----------



## actorlife

baskingshark said:


> Ok just browsed Aliexpress, and some of the the shops selling the TRN BT20S Pro do sell the module thing separately for 2 pin/MMCX detachable modules. Search for "*TRN BT20S PRO Cable*" and I think they are selling individual modules at 8 bucks or so. Strangely, it is sold as another item on a different listing. Not sure why the shops don't just bundle everything in and give a better discount.
> 
> So with a $63 USD TRN BT20S Pro (with charging case), and adding say one detachable module, that is north of $70 USD! Pretty pricey!


If there is a $25-30 pair(aptx and volume control) I will bite. $60 is too much.


----------



## Caipirina (Aug 20, 2020)

DoubleU T F Amazon? I am really hoping they are not screwing around with that release, like they did with the Sony Spoon 800 ...


----------



## Caipirina

actorlife said:


> That’s why I linked my overviews haha. Have like 12 now. I’m pretty sure those Tronsport will be to my liking. You have 40 now correct? ✌🤣👌😉


m a y b e ....   

(LOL @ "Tronsport")


----------



## baskingshark

actorlife said:


> If there is a $25-30 pair(aptx and volume control) I will bite. $60 is too much.



Their older BT20 (non S) is around low $20s during sales, and the BT20S (non pro) is around $25 sometimes. So I doubt this new Pro version will drop to sub $30 or even below $50 USD.

Though as per most CHIFI, stuff generally becomes cheaper from the release prices after a few months. Except for stuff like the Urbanfun YBF that was originally $39 USD and now is north of $60 USD after it got hyped to the moon.


----------



## Shadowclash10

baskingshark said:


> Just a headsup, there's an Aliexpress sale coming on 24/08/20. Forecasted sale prices are available already.
> 
> For wireless gear, I'm quite interested in the new TRN BT20S Pro, seems the forecasted sale price is $63 before coupons in multiple stores. Potential TRN QC issues aside, this is too pricey for me to bite at this price, plus those sellers are not selling the detachable modules separately, bummer! Bad marketing move on their part, the whole point of the swappable modules is so we can interchange 2 pin and MMCX type IEMs on the go!
> 
> Any other good Aliexpress TWS offers on the upcoming sales that you guys can share?


IMO if you want the BT20S Pro, you might as well get them straight from Drop here: https://drop.com/buy/trn-bt20s-pro-bluetooth-5-0-module-adapter#overview.


----------



## Shadowclash10

Sebulr said:


> I'm after a new set of tws in ears for side sleeping. My needs are 1. comfort 2. No blinking lights. 3. No touch Controls as I sleep on my side. Price about £50 any ideas?
> I would use bomaker sifi 1, but they have blinking lights and the tips get pushed too far into my ear as they are slightly too small for my cavernous ear holes. I'm fed up of having touch controls turning off the bud on my pillow.
> 
> On a side note. I killed my mifo 05s.  I burst the diaphragm with an industrial air line. Served myself right really.


Who has Anbes 356/SSK clones/whatever other clones? I think that was one reason why they were so popular _back in the day_ (haha ) - you could sleep with them on?


----------



## Shadowclash10

baskingshark said:


> Ok just browsed Aliexpress, and some of the the shops selling the TRN BT20S Pro do sell the module thing separately for 2 pin/MMCX detachable modules. Search for "*TRN BT20S PRO Cable*" and I think they are selling individual modules at 8 bucks or so. Strangely, it is sold as another item on a different listing. Not sure why the shops don't just bundle everything in and give a better discount.
> 
> So with a $63 USD TRN BT20S Pro (with charging case), and adding say one detachable module, that is north of $70 USD! Pretty pricey!


Yeah, pricey. But on the other hand, ATM you have no other options if you want something with a charging case .


----------



## assassin10000

Sebulr said:


> I'm after a new set of tws in ears for side sleeping. My needs are 1. comfort 2. No blinking lights. 3. No touch Controls as I sleep on my side. Price about £50 any ideas?
> I would use bomaker sifi 1, but they have blinking lights and the tips get pushed too far into my ear as they are slightly too small for my cavernous ear holes. I'm fed up of having touch controls turning off the bud on my pillow.
> 
> On a side note. I killed my mifo 05s.  I burst the diaphragm with an industrial air line. Served myself right really.



The tronsmart onyx free has a button instead of touch controls (and 'uv' sterilization fwiw). 



Shadowclash10 said:


> Yeah, pricey. But on the other hand, ATM you have no other options if you want something with a charging case .



Not that bad if it's an improvement in noise floor. 

I was considering getting the UTWS1 just for that reason. $15 more than that for a charging case and interchangeable hooks makes it worth it IMO.


Ibasso CF01 - less battery life but will drive what is attached harder.
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/ibasso-cf01-cable-free-bt-mmcx-adapter-for-any-mmcx-iem.938751


Fiio has mentioned they are coming out with a UTWS3 which may be a modified BT20S Pro, like their UTWS1 was a modified/tweaked BT20S.


----------



## Coniboy

What about Edifier X3 vs mpow m30?


----------



## Shadowclash10

assassin10000 said:


> The tronsmart onyx free has a button instead of touch controls (and 'uv' sterilization fwiw).
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yeah, but the Ibassos are like $170 or something. Really pricey.

Ooh, where did you see that   ? About the UTWS3? Fiio always makes affordable products, so this should be around the same price tier as the BT20S Pro, if it has a charging case.


----------



## assassin10000

Shadowclash10 said:


> Yeah, but the Ibassos are like $170 or something. Really pricey.
> 
> Ooh, where did you see that   ? About the UTWS3? Fiio always makes affordable products, so this should be around the same price tier as the BT20S Pro, if it has a charging case.



From Fiio. 



FiiO said:


> No UTWS2 but UTWS3, we could not provide the estimated time currently.
> 
> Best regards


----------



## Shadowclash10

Coniboy said:


> What about Edifier X3 vs mpow m30?


The Edifier X3 is the best absolute budget TWS. Like *budget budget*. The M30s are a small step up price wise. It depends on your priorities. Both have a similar battery life for the IEMs themselves. The M30's case has a much longer battery life than the X3's, but the X3 has a much smaller, more pocketable case. Both support mono. The X3 has has a better mic. The M30 has wingtips and a higher IPX7 rating compared to IPX5, making them more focused at workouts. both are quite solid, it just depends on the features that you prioritize. If you want to read the full review of them, here: Edifier X3 review, Mpow M30 review.


----------



## Shadowclash10

Caipirina said:


> DoubleU T F Amazon? I am really hoping they are not screwing around with that release, like they did with the Sony Spoon 800 ...


Wait, am I reading that right???? 3k for the Buds Live?


----------



## Coniboy

Shadowclash10 said:


> The Edifier X3 is the best absolute budget TWS. Like *budget budget*. The M30s are a small step up price wise. It depends on your priorities. Both have a similar battery life for the IEMs themselves. The M30's case has a much longer battery life than the X3's, but the X3 has a much smaller, more pocketable case. Both support mono. The X3 has has a better mic. The M30 has wingtips and a higher IPX7 rating compared to IPX5, making them more focused at workouts. both are quite solid, it just depends on the features that you prioritize. If you want to read the full review of them, here: Edifier X3 review, Mpow M30 review.


Thanks bro.


----------



## erockg

Not sure if anyone would buy open box, but Amazon is running a 20% off deal on Amazon Warehouse headphones. Limited brands, but the Used/Like New Sony ANC WF-1000XM3's are going for $95.58 shipped for Prime Members right NOW.


----------



## VICosPhi

Caipirina said:


> DoubleU T F Amazon? I am really hoping they are not screwing around with that release, like they did with the Sony Spoon 800 ...



Not sure if I should get two Note 20 Ultras or one of those Buds Live!


----------



## Shadowclash10

VICosPhi said:


> Not sure if I should get two Note 20 Ultras or one of those Buds Live!


Obviously 1 Buds Live    . Whatcha gonna do with 2 Note 20 Ultras? Hot-glue them together into one dual-screen phone or smth?


----------



## Shadowclash10

Oh, it looks like Google Pixel Buds are now available in colors besides white. Although I don't think many of us have those/are interested in them, because apparently their SQ is pretty bad.


----------



## DB10

webvan said:


> So I was able to recharge the Apollos and gave them a try with the Final E LL and...same problem with ANC/Ambient ON, no real surprise since it has to be a problem with the "programming" of the QC chip. Hopefully it's not a hardware problem (placement of the mics used for ANC) and it can be fixed with a firmware update but since Tronsmart have yet to acknowledge a problem it remains to be seen...in any case I'm done with them and will be sending them back.


I love the Final E tips for my iems!


----------



## DB10

erockg said:


> Not sure if anyone would buy open box, but Amazon is running a 20% off deal on Amazon Warehouse headphones. Limited brands, but the Used/Like New Sony ANC WF-1000XM3's are going for $95.58 shipped for Prime Members right NOW.


I bought a pair of them and are like new, that is my experience with the Sony's!


----------



## Caipirina

Shadowclash10 said:


> Oh, it looks like Google Pixel Buds are now available in colors besides white. Although I don't think many of us have those/are interested in them, because apparently their SQ is pretty bad.


Saw pink ones on AE ...  Fake I guess??


----------



## VICosPhi

JVC Spiral dots have made my MTW2 sound heavenly by introducing the crisp treble which is missing in factory tips or any other after market tips. What a huge difference the tips make! I am gonna splurge on Spiral dot++ now...Tried Comply, Symbio, Azla and JVC Spiral dots sound best to me!

I am being greedy now and wish for more sub bass on MTW2, maybe MTW3 will have it next year lol


----------



## Shadowclash10 (Aug 20, 2020)

Coniboy said:


> Thanks. And what about Xiaomi airdots?


Meh. They got hyped up quite a bit, because Xiaomi is more a known brand than say, Edifier. They aren't _bad_, per se, but there are way better options, like the Edifier X3 or Mpow M30. Really no reason to get them IMHO. Scarbir's review here. And because they were released like a whole year ago, they haven't aged very well.

BTW what is your source device? iPhone, Android, MP3 player/DAP, what? The reason why I ask is because some Bluetooth codecs are better/only available on certain devices.


----------



## Shadowclash10

Caipirina said:


> Saw pink ones on AE ...  Fake I guess??


Yeah... there isn't even a pink color anyway.


----------



## actorlife (Aug 20, 2020)

Shadowclash10 said:


> Who has Anbes 356/SSK clones/whatever other clones? I think that was one reason why they were so popular _back in the day_ (haha ) - you could sleep with them on?


Spunky beats are shaped and close to the sq of the Anbes 359. Big plus.


----------



## gibletzor

Shadowclash10 said:


> Yayy! Got my Galaxy Buds Plus for $100 from Verizon thanks to @VICosPhi . I'll post a full review once I've spent some for time with them.
> 
> I think these are the TWS for me. $100 isn't that bad (they should be getting frequently discounted to $100 now that the Buds Live are out), it's on the upper limit of chi-fi actually. Without wingtips, these things are insanely comfortable. Wingtips are less comfortable, but I do prefer to have them on when exercising. The settings you choose stay with the buds, no need for the app to be on the source device. Using the app, I'm able to have full controls (pause/play, skip/go back, ambient on/off, and volume using the Labs features). The case is very pocketable, though I wish it wasn't so glossy. Battery life is amazing - no need to stress out when using these on a long stress. Sadly, total combined battery life is only 22 hours, but to be honest, whenever I'm in a situation where I need more than 22 hours while travelling, I'll have my battery pack with me anyway. I'm actually using these with an iPhone, and it's still great. Ambient doesn't sound very lifelike, and it amplifies some sounds (like running water, crumpling paper) waay more than other sounds. However, this does mean that voices get amplified, which is what you use ambient for anyway. So ambient is good. I haven't really tested the mics yet, but reviewers like them, so... I honestly haven't had problems with the touchpads being overly sensitive, like some people say. The only big complaint that I have is that SQ isn't too great. Interestingly, I have no problems with the bass on these - and I listen to alt rock, which has a good amount of bass. What I do have a problem with is the fact that sometimes they sound tinny. I'll try experimenting with the EQ, and all of that. IMO it's probably something that can/will be fixed through EQ/tips. All in all, I really ike these so far.


I prefer Spinfit CP360 tips to the stock ones that come with the Buds+.  More comfortable and sound better all around.


----------



## gibletzor

jasonb said:


> Not to keep posting about the Galaxy Beans (Buds Live) over and over, but I'm starting to really like these. I'm starting to find how to wear them and they sound good to me on the "normal" EQ setting now which is awesome. Bass isn't over done, and the treble isn't under done either. I was going to return them to Best Buy tomorrow, but now I'm pretty sure I'm going to keep them.


I'm kind of in the same boat.  This morning I was convinced I was going to send them back to Amazon, now I'm not sure.


----------



## gibletzor

Sebulr said:


> I'm after a new set of tws in ears for side sleeping. My needs are 1. comfort 2. No blinking lights. 3. No touch Controls as I sleep on my side. Price about £50 any ideas?
> I would use bomaker sifi 1, but they have blinking lights and the tips get pushed too far into my ear as they are slightly too small for my cavernous ear holes. I'm fed up of having touch controls turning off the bud on my pillow.
> 
> On a side note. I killed my mifo 05s.  I burst the diaphragm with an industrial air line. Served myself right really.


I've slept with my Kissral R18's in before.  They have physical buttons and are pretty low profile.  They are an Anbes 359 clone, so any clones of those should work.  I know the Anbes 359 and Kissral R18 have very similar and excellent sound, not sure if all the clones are similar though.


----------



## baskingshark

Shadowclash10 said:


> IMO if you want the BT20S Pro, you might as well get them straight from Drop here: https://drop.com/buy/trn-bt20s-pro-bluetooth-5-0-module-adapter#overview.



I've never bought from DROP before, but some of my friends who have said when it comes down to returns and warranties, it is a bit tricky. Sometimes DROP will ask you to liase with the manufacturer directly for defective goods. And as we all know, TRN isn't the best when it comes to QC sometimes, both the TRN BT20 and TRN BT20S which I bought previously have problems a few months down the line. So there's a chance of needing a good returns policy.

This DROP option doesn't seem to sell the detachable modules separately also?


----------



## tgx78 (Aug 20, 2020)

Using Apollo Bold with apple music with bass reducer EQ and ANC on.

Really liking it. My office needed a fan on top of air conditioning today and ANC is noticeably better than the n400.

Note: even with the Bass Reducer EQ, bass is still heavy hitting and pronounced.


----------



## sponsor

Caipirina said:


> And this is why I added some ad hoc padding (will replace with foam when I get some) inside the lid



This seems like a useful hack.
I am currently facing really bad battery life from the case. I don't know if it's due to this missing padding, but whenever I shake the case with earbuds in, the white light glows up indicating they moved inside the case.
I am using my earphones for 3-4hrs daily, but the case gets empty after a couple of days, so I am getting about 8-9hrs from the case. Is it possible that constant disconnect-reconnect of earbuds inside the case while shaking (which would happen if the case is in jeans or in a bag while on the move) is making them discharge faster?

@Apollo users. are you also facing bad case battery life? Earbuds seems to be doing just fine in battery department though. @Tronsmart Official


----------



## chinmie

update on the Apollo:
another eartips that can be used without charging problems are the Sony hybrids and JVC Spiral dots (this one is what i currently use). i also use wavelet eq to shave off the bass if I'm using ANC. 

i also still don't like the auto pause feature, as i often remove one while watching youtube, and i want the sound to just keep playing. i might just put a tape on the sensors for now. i hope when the app comes out there's an option to disable it


----------



## FYLegend (Aug 21, 2020)

Anyone having issues with Galaxy Buds+ not wirelessly charging in hot weather? Sabbat E12 Ultra still charges in hot weather but the earbuds get very warm.



Shadowclash10 said:


> Who has Anbes 356/SSK clones/whatever other clones? I think that was one reason why they were so popular _back in the day_ (haha ) - you could sleep with them on?


No you can't, at least not on the "Coolhere UFO" or "Air" UFO rebrands.  You can sleep with them but driver flex was sensitive enough that the slighest contact would cause the driver to crinkle and dip in volume. The fit and passive isolation was great though.

Sabbat E12 Ultra has a nice profile for sleeping, but does not stay in my ears well.


----------



## gibletzor

FYLegend said:


> Anyone having issues with Galaxy Buds+ not wirelessly charging in hot weather? Sabbat E12 Ultra still charges in hot weather but the earbuds get very warm.


Can't say that I remember any of my Galaxy Buds having trouble Qi charging in hot weather.


----------



## voicemaster

FYLegend said:


> Anyone having issues with Galaxy Buds+ not wirelessly charging in hot weather? Sabbat E12 Ultra still charges in hot weather but the earbuds get very warm.
> 
> 
> No you can't, at least not on the "Coolhere UFO" or "Air" UFO rebrands.  You can sleep with them but driver flex was sensitive enough that the slighest contact would cause the driver to crinkle and dip in volume. The fit and passive isolation was great though.
> ...


Mine wireless charging is still working after a full session on the washing machine  . The usb-c is busted tho.


----------



## assassin10000

Got the Buds Live earlier today. Immediately updated them to the latest firmware. Work pretty good for how tiny they are.


Fit wise I wish there was one size smaller on the 'wings'. Basically I'd like one with no wing/flap, just a bumper around the charging port. I can get a similar fit by reversing left and right wings but this prevents the lid fully closing on the charging case.


Sound wise on normal they are pretty good. Not recommended for bassheads though. There is decent amount of bass for an earbud like design with no foams to give a seal.


Since I like a slightly warmer and 'milder' harman like signature, I pulled -1 to -1.5db out of the upper mids/lower treble and add about +1db to the mids.  

With ANC on the bass and lower mids come forward a bit and the signature goes from lean to warm. Switching to the 'clear' EQ setting compensates for the change fairly well. Running a couple errands earlier and the ANC removed a fair amount of road noise when driving but doesn't actually isolate to where its anymore unsafe than having the radio on. I like it, for what it is. It does an ok job with low droning noises, blocks the fridge and A/C noise but doesn't completely silence my tower fan.

I notice a similar change in SQ when using the 'relieve pressure with ambient sound' option in the 'labs' tab.


----------



## phaeton70

webvan said:


> Hopefully it's not a hardware problem (placement of the mics used for ANC)



bingo. I think it's that, explaining also why we hear different "differencies" with ANC on depending on the fit in the ear canal and the volume level. so probably is not resolvable with a new fw, and only goes down to luck.... a pity, because if you're lucky with ANC, then the overall sound quality is gorgeous for the price IMHO.


----------



## Tronsmart Official (Aug 21, 2020)

sponsor said:


> This seems like a useful hack.
> I am currently facing really bad battery life from the case. I don't know if it's due to this missing padding, but whenever I shake the case with earbuds in, the white light glows up indicating they moved inside the case.
> I am using my earphones for 3-4hrs daily, but the case gets empty after a couple of days, so I am getting about 8-9hrs from the case. Is it possible that constant disconnect-reconnect of earbuds inside the case while shaking (which would happen if the case is in jeans or in a bag while on the move) is making them discharge faster?
> 
> @Apollo users. are you also facing bad case battery life? Earbuds seems to be doing just fine in battery department though. @Tronsmart Official


Hi, sponsor,
Thanks for your feedback. May I ask how many times you have put earbuds in and out? The charging case can be used up tp 30 hours. Please contact our customer service if you have any problem: support@tronsmart.com


----------



## Tronsmart Official

chinmie said:


> update on the Apollo:
> another eartips that can be used without charging problems are the Sony hybrids and JVC Spiral dots (this one is what i currently use). i also use wavelet eq to shave off the bass if I'm using ANC.
> 
> i also still don't like the auto pause feature, as i often remove one while watching youtube, and i want the sound to just keep playing. i might just put a tape on the sensors for now. i hope when the app comes out there's an option to disable it


Yes, after APP comes, you can control all it.


----------



## gibletzor

The more I figure out how to set the GBeans in my ears the right way, the better they get.  They're so unbelievably comfortable, although I definitely won't be using them for outdoor work or anything.  They don't feel secure even if they are!


----------



## sponsor

Tronsmart Official said:


> Hi, sponsor,
> Thanks for your feedback. May I ask how many times you have put earbuds in and out? The charging case can be used up tp 30 hours. Please contact our customer service if you have any problem: support@tronsmart.com



Maybe about 10 times, but as I said, when the case is shaken with the earbuds in, the lights starts blinking on the case, indicating that the earbuds inside are moving and disconnecting and reconnecting. Maybe the magnet isn't strong enough, so if I put it in the bag, it'll just disconnect and reconnect inside the call all the time.


----------



## Caipirina

gibletzor said:


> The more I figure out how to set the GBeans in my ears the right way, the better they get.  They're so unbelievably comfortable, although I definitely won't be using them for outdoor work or anything.  They don't feel secure even if they are!



i hope delivery will work out well .. at least it got dispatched


----------



## webvan

Just received the Panasonic RZ-S500W and after some pretty poor experiences with the Tozo NC9 and the Apollo Bold this is a nice "shot in the arm" to make one enthusiastic about TWEs again ! This is clearly a well though out package with a lot of attention to detail (rubberized material on the buds for better grip for instance) and good execution (the app while rated at a ridiculous 2.2 on the Playstore is fast (unlike the Sony or Sennheiser app that took ages to connect) and has a host of useful settings. The controls are easy to memorize and the only one lacking really is the ability to activate ambient and pause music at the same time like on the Amazon EchoBuds. Maybe that will come with a future firmware/app update.

These being earbuds the SQ is what matters and the first listens have been very enjoyable. The sound is crisp and impactful with good separation and the bass can be quickly boosted with the "bass boost" option or more finely with the EQ. Passive isolation is pretty good, on par with the MTW2 (I don't have them anymore) but not EchoBuds or Bomaker SiFi II good though, probably due to the fact that the earbuds do not fill the concha as much, and the ANC is stellar (and can be fine tuned in the app). With the lower passive isolation the ANC activation is more "impressive" than on the EchoBuds and while I reserve judgement after more testing I'm thinking the passive+active isolation combo will be close between the Amazon EchoBuds, the best in class so far IMHO, and the RZ-S500W.

Highly recommended, especially if you can get them for the Amazon DE significanly reduced price of 140€ (or used "very good" of 124€).


----------



## Shadowclash10

Caipirina said:


> i hope delivery will work out well .. at least it got dispatched


At least you didn't pay 3K !


----------



## Shadowclash10

tgx78 said:


> Using Apollo Bold with apple music with bass reducer EQ and ANC on.
> 
> Really liking it. My office needed a fan on top of air conditioning today and ANC is noticeably better than the n400.
> 
> Note: even with the Bass Reducer EQ, bass is still heavy hitting and pronounced.


And that doesn't make it sound bad? Whenever i try to use the built-in EQs, either vocals, or bass, or something gets muffled, or sounds wacky, etc. 
But actually, that does make a bit of sense. The Apollos have the capability to sound good, so EQ should be very helpful - unless it is a hardware problem.


----------



## voicemaster

Shadowclash10 said:


> At least you didn't pay 3K !


The 3k version comes with fairy dust and heavenly tuned driver!!


----------



## phaeton70

webvan said:


> Just received the Panasonic RZ-S500W



ordered mine few days ago, should arrive tomorrow, I have great expectation!!


----------



## DB10

webvan said:


> Just received the Panasonic RZ-S500W and after some pretty poor experiences with the Tozo NC9 and the Apollo Bold this is a nice "shot in the arm" to make one enthusiastic about TWEs again ! This is clearly a well though out package with a lot of attention to detail (rubberized material on the buds for better grip for instance) and good execution (the app while rated at a ridiculous 2.2 on the Playstore is fast (unlike the Sony or Sennheiser app that took ages to connect) and has a host of useful settings. The controls are easy to memorize and the only one lacking really is the ability to activate ambient and pause music at the same time like on the Amazon EchoBuds. Maybe that will come with a future firmware/app update.
> 
> These being earbuds the SQ is what matters and the first listens have been very enjoyable. The sound is crisp and impactful with good separation and the bass can be quickly boosted with the "bass boost" option or more finely with the EQ. Passive isolation is pretty good, on par with the MTW2 (I don't have them anymore) but not EchoBuds or Bomaker SiFi II good though, probably due to the fact that the earbuds do not fill the concha as much, and the ANC is stellar (and can be fine tuned in the app). With the lower passive isolation the ANC activation is more "impressive" than on the EchoBuds and while I reserve judgement after more testing I'm thinking the passive+active isolation combo will be close between the Amazon EchoBuds, the best in class so far IMHO, and the RZ-S500W.
> 
> Highly recommended, especially if you can get them for the Amazon DE significanly reduced price of 140€ (or used "very good" of 124€).



Hi @webvan thanks for your review is marvelous! Do you recommend it as an alternative to the Sonys that doesn't fit in my ears at all?

Thanks in advance!


----------



## webvan (Aug 21, 2020)

If you're talking about the WF-1000XM3s I don't know who's ears they fit, it's such a weird design, side-heavy and nothing to hold them in the concha, unless maybe you have tiny ears ? When I had them my only option to keep them in place was to ram them inside my ear canals and needless to day this is not a pleasant experience. I was thinking of giving the SP800N a try but it's essentially the same design and it seems the "wings" haven't really improved the stability according to comments here by those who got them.

So yes, the  RZ-S500W are night and day in terms of design with quite a bit of "rubbing surface" against the concha even though they're not as "perfect" as the EchoBuds and the SiFi II that really fit in like molded IEMs for the best possible isolation and "staying in place" ability.


----------



## DB10

webvan said:


> If you're talking about the WF-1000XM3s I don't know who's ears they fit, it's such a weird design, side-heavy and nothing to hold them in the concha, unless maybe you have tiny ears ? When I had them my only option to keep them in place was to ram them inside my ear canals and needless to day this is not a pleasant experience. I was thinking of giving the SP800N a try but it's essentially the same design and it seems the "wings" haven't really improved the stability according to comments here by those who got them.
> 
> So yes, the  RZ-S500W are night and day in terms of design with quite a bit of "rubbing surface" against the concha even though they're not as "perfect" as the EchoBuds and the SiFi II that really fit in like molded IEMs for the best possible isolation and "staying in place" ability.



Hi, thanks yes, I was talking about them XM3s, the deadline to send them back to Amazon is 1st September, I love the sound, but I cannot keep them in my ears, they fall out constantly, is annoying, so that I was looking for the best possible alternative with good sound and, if possible "decent" fit. There are some Galaxy Buds with a good price in Amazon, and also a Tevis and a pair of Jabra 75t and the Melomania 1, but I would prefer something with ANC, if possible, and the Panasonic could be a good solution.

Thanks again!


----------



## tgx78

Shadowclash10 said:


> And that doesn't make it sound bad? Whenever i try to use the built-in EQs, either vocals, or bass, or something gets muffled, or sounds wacky, etc.
> But actually, that does make a bit of sense. The Apollos have the capability to sound good, so EQ should be very helpful - unless it is a hardware problem.



With this specific EQ( bass reducer), it sounds pretty good to me. Not destructive as other EQ settings. Try late night EQ as well.


----------



## bronco1015

I am so glad i didn't cave and buy the Technics, i just got an offer to review them and i get to keep them. I am beyond stoked!


----------



## FYLegend

gibletzor said:


> Can't say that I remember any of my Galaxy Buds having trouble Qi charging in hot weather.


hmm, I saw a handful of complaints on Reddit but it doesn't seem all that common. It's cooled down so I can't test the issue now. For the record I was using a Seneo Wireless pad which has some venting on the bottom but can still get warm.


----------



## Caipirina (Aug 21, 2020)

phaeton70 said:


> ordered mine few days ago, should arrive tomorrow, I have great expectation!!


and yet somehow I am on the fence still ... I think one issue I have is fit, I need to do more tip rolling ... somehow they wiggle loose when I walk and yesterday one actually popped out and nearly rolled into a gutter!!! Thanks to the rubbery exterior, I can't detect any scuff marks from that fall.

SO, I do think I will keep them and will probably return the Aukey TWS .. and heck, maybe even the Tozo. I still have some time .. depends on how likely I will keep the GBeans ... 

decisions decisions .. I could send back the Aukey, Tozo AND Panasonic .. and then get the TEchnicx :S 

anything new out I shall still get while I have time? Wish the AKG would finally show up on amazon.de


----------



## Caipirina

DB10 said:


> Hi, thanks yes, I was talking about them XM3s, the deadline to send them back to Amazon is 1st September, I love the sound, but I cannot keep them in my ears, they fall out constantly, is annoying, so that I was looking for the best possible alternative with good sound and, if possible "decent" fit. There are some Galaxy Buds with a good price in Amazon, and also a Tevis and a pair of Jabra 75t and the Melomania 1, but I would prefer something with ANC, if possible, and the Panasonic could be a good solution.
> 
> Thanks again!


Honestly .. even though I finally found a good fit for the xm3 ... I do have some rather micro connection drops ... and I would probably send them back now, but my time window has passed ...   the ANC of the Panasonic is IMHO better .. the sound comes close? Maybe?


----------



## DB10

Caipirina said:


> Honestly .. even though I finally found a good fit for the xm3 ... I do have some rather micro connection drops ... and I would probably send them back now, but my time window has passed ...   the ANC of the Panasonic is IMHO better .. the sound comes close? Maybe?



Hi, thanks, I still have some days left...so that your suggestions are the best for me, because I haven't tested the other models, but I find the Sonys completely impossible to stay in my ears...


----------



## MadMike

DB10 said:


> Hi, thanks yes, I was talking about them XM3s, the deadline to send them back to Amazon is 1st September, I love the sound, but I cannot keep them in my ears, they fall out constantly, is annoying, so that I was looking for the best possible alternative with good sound and, if possible "decent" fit. There are some Galaxy Buds with a good price in Amazon, and also a Tevis and a pair of Jabra 75t and the Melomania 1, but I would prefer something with ANC, if possible, and the Panasonic could be a good solution.
> 
> Thanks again!


I definitely recommend the S500Ws over the XM3s- better fit, slightly better sound and ANC. Plus more options to control everything from the touchpads. Can't control volume from XM3 without giving up other controls.


----------



## assassin10000

Well, after some thought and a quick trip to the hardware store I found a solution to the Beans / Buds Live wings that is super easy and cheap.

O-rings. Used a selection of different sizes to get the fit I wanted.




Left to right specs:
O.D. x I.D. x C.S. (cross section/diameter)
9mm x 6mm x 1.5mm
9.2mm x 5.6mm x 1.8mm
10mm x 6mm x 2mm
10.6mm x 6.8mm x 1.9mm
11mm x 7mm x 2mm
11mm x 6mm x 2.5mm

Any thicker than 2.5mm and the case won't quite fully close. Same thing happens if you flip left & right wings.


----------



## Shadowclash10

MadMike said:


> I definitely recommend the S500Ws over the XM3s- better fit, slightly better sound and ANC. Plus more options to control everything from the touchpads. Can't control volume from XM3 without giving up other controls.


And the XM3s are bulkier - both the earbuds themselves and the case. TBH, some reviewers do say the XM3s have the best in-class ANC, but it and SQ must be marginal differences compared to the S500Ws - regardless of which is better there. Regardless, I'd still hands down pick the Panasonics - they have a better fit, full controls, smaller earbuds and case themselves. So yeah.

Argh, those names!


----------



## C_Lindbergh (Aug 21, 2020)

So far I'm pretty happy with my Buds Live, are they the best sounding TWS? Probably not, but god damn they are comfortable, that's their main selling point imo. Another great selling point is ofc the ambient awareness, when you listen to a medium/low volume you can now be aware of your surroundings in a natural way.  Also you won't have to deal with ear wax as much, and the case is really easy to clean since the earbuds are quite shallow.

They're like a new product segment, yet many "professional" reviewers complains about the ANC and compares them to ordinarty TWS with a seal... Completely dumb imo, they literally sport an open ear design. It would be like comparing a pair of closed back headphones with a pair of open  back.

One of my few complaints is the touch command delay, it's a bit too much, lower it by half a second or something.


----------



## Shadowclash10

Anyone else have slight problems with getting their Bud + (and maybe Buds too?) to forward/skip tracks? Sometimes it just seems to register a double/triple tap as a pause/play. Maybe cause my touchpad areas are quite oily now? I'll try cleaning them....


----------



## jasonb

assassin10000 said:


> Well, after some thought and a quick trip to the hardware store I found a solution to the Beans / Buds Live wings that is super easy and cheap.
> 
> O-rings. Used a selection of different sizes to get the fit I wanted.
> 
> ...



Interesting... Is it comfortable? You don't feel the plastic that the o-rings wrap around? I'd like to try something in between the two sizes that come with the Beans. Is that possible with o-rings?


----------



## ngd3

Anyone with the galaxy beans use them for work calls? Just wondering if they are more natural to use than the buds+. With the buds+ the incoming sound quality is good, but its distracting being so isolated and hearing everything "in your own head" and my voice sounding very nasal from the isolation. Seems like the lower isolation of the beans would be help


----------



## regancipher

This thing with the bass is still baffling me with the Apollo's. I mean, I had low rumbling tinnitus for 6 months that had me borderline suicidal at one point and still I pumped the bassiest tracks I could through them on aptx, aac and SBC, I've used flac files just to make sure and the reproduction is immaculate. I've had other producers listen through them and they're impressed too. 

I mean, they ain't without their faults. They disconnect occssionally, hardly ever connect to the last device and they are the only earbuds I have to use different size tips on one ear to get a good fit  the lights sometimes seem like they could mean anything, but I can chuck separate basslines in Ableton and you can hear them clearly and individually. Maybe it's my screwed up ears!!


----------



## d3myz

erockg said:


> Interesting, I think you're right.  I just connected the GBL to my iPad pro which is still on iOS 13 and while walking around my house no dropouts.  Same walk with my iPhone on iOS 14 beta, it starts to drop.  Did you downgrade?


yea man, ios 14 beta 4 was a nightmare. Beta 5 seems to be back to normal


----------



## TK33

Shadowclash10 said:


> Anyone else have slight problems with getting their Bud + (and maybe Buds too?) to forward/skip tracks? Sometimes it just seems to register a double/triple tap as a pause/play. Maybe cause my touchpad areas are quite oily now? I'll try cleaning them....



I was never able to get them to work perfectly on the original Buds or the Galaxy Buds Live.  I would say I can skip forward with the double tap pretty consistently but the triple tap to skip back is hit or miss for me. End up skipping forward half the time


----------



## TK33

ngd3 said:


> Anyone with the galaxy beans use them for work calls? Just wondering if they are more natural to use than the buds+. With the buds+ the incoming sound quality is good, but its distracting being so isolated and hearing everything "in your own head" and my voice sounding very nasal from the isolation. Seems like the lower isolation of the beans would be help



That is why I bought them. Usually have a few calls a day and they are great, although I still use one ear out of habit.  Ordered at launch and no one has complained about call quality yet. They are really great for calls because they are open.


----------



## Shadowclash10

ngd3 said:


> Anyone with the galaxy beans use them for work calls? Just wondering if they are more natural to use than the buds+. With the buds+ the incoming sound quality is good, but its distracting being so isolated and hearing everything "in your own head" and my voice sounding very nasal from the isolation. Seems like the lower isolation of the beans would be help


FYI one thing you can try is to enable ambient while calling. FYI I don't have the Live, only the Buds +. I've tried that setting, and it really helps - basically like sidetone, although it lets other sounds in too. I don't know if ambient on the Buds + is close enough to the lower isloation on the Beans, but it's worth a try!


----------



## eiraku (Aug 21, 2020)

Francesco Montanari said:


> Ciao guys!
> 
> Fiil T1XS in my hands finally! First impressions: they are absultely amazing: mini case, super comfortable, NO DRIVER FLEX while chewing or walking, audio part is the best: same amazing sound of T1X but with wider sound stage and detailed sound. Really love them. Ambient mode works very good (except in windy environment obviously) and also auto play/pause sensor.
> 
> ...



I see that these are already being promoed on my local e-tailer (Shopee) so yeah I'm keeping close tabs. Hopefully a "Global" version with English prompts will come out soon (like the old T1X).

Also, from Shopee reviews seem like the "old" English app recognises the XS as plain old T1X units? Not sure what that means functionality-wise tho.


----------



## cheesesteak

Saw that you are able to get eartips for the galaxy buds live in Korea, wondered why didn't they just include it in the package.


----------



## ngd3

TK33 said:


> That is why I bought them. Usually have a few calls a day and they are great, although I still use one ear out of habit.  Ordered at launch and no one has complained about call quality yet. They are really great for calls because they are open.



So even with both in they feel somewhat open, almost airy? Seems like you can adjust fit to make them even more open sounding, but would appreciate anything else you can add



Shadowclash10 said:


> FYI one thing you can try is to enable ambient while calling. FYI I don't have the Live, only the Buds +. I've tried that setting, and it really helps - basically like sidetone, although it lets other sounds in too. I don't know if ambient on the Buds + is close enough to the lower isloation on the Beans, but it's worth a try!



I run my calls through Teams on my laptop, so I lose the ambient mode with Windows. Maybe I'm being dumb but don't think it's an option through a computer


----------



## TK33 (Aug 21, 2020)

ngd3 said:


> So even with both in they feel somewhat open, almost airy? Seems like you can adjust fit to make them even more open sounding, but would appreciate anything else you can add
> 
> 
> 
> I run my calls through Teams on my laptop, so I lose the ambient mode with Windows. Maybe I'm being dumb but don't think it's an option through a computer



Yes, you can adjust it so you don't completely seal your ear and so you can hear your surroundings. I also keep the ambient mode on although I havent really noticed if it was on or not.  I can actually hear people talking to me too when I have them in so I dont get the annoyed glares from the wife when I don't respond.  Has been working great for me.  If you get it from somewhere like Best Buy with a good return policy, it might be worth a try.  I went back to wired IEMs for calla until I got the Galaxy Buds Live.  I use my Samsung Galaxy S9 for calls (only device I have my Galaxy Buds Live paired to since I can't stand it when my bluetooth devices connect to the wrong phone/computer, especially when I am trying to hop on a call).

EDIT: Btw - I know some companies use Teams but have actual dial in numbers so you can dial in via phone instead of uaing the computer.  Might be something worth looking into (I dont really use bluetooth with my desktop so cant comment on that)


----------



## assassin10000

jasonb said:


> Interesting... Is it comfortable? You don't feel the plastic that the o-rings wrap around? I'd like to try something in between the two sizes that come with the Beans. Is that possible with o-rings?



It is comfortable for me. The o-rings sit a bit past the plastic edges and give it less of a sharp edge to rest against skin. I have somewhat smaller concha and even with the smaller wings I still have some hotspots/discomfort after a while.

All of the o-rings I tried (and pictured above) would be smaller than the small wings.

You can put a larger o-ring around the small wings and try that. I don't know if it would help you or not.




Shadowclash10 said:


> FYI one thing you can try is to enable ambient while calling. FYI I don't have the Live, only the Buds +. I've tried that setting, and it really helps - basically like sidetone, although it lets other sounds in too. I don't know if ambient on the Buds + is close enough to the lower isloation on the Beans, but it's worth a try!



Completely different IMO.

The Buds+ ambient is still a bit unnatural and bit focused in the sound it ports in.

The Buds Live are like using earbuds that block nothing if ANC is off and only some humming/low droning/rumble with it on.




cheesesteak said:


> Saw that you are able to get eartips for the galaxy buds live in Korea, wondered why didn't they just include it in the package.




Neat. I wouldn't mind trying them when (or if) they become available.



ngd3 said:


> So even with both in they feel somewhat open, almost airy? Seems like you can adjust fit to make them even more open sounding, but would appreciate anything else you can add
> 
> I run my calls through Teams on my laptop, so I lose the ambient mode with Windows. Maybe I'm being dumb but don't think it's an option through a computer



Yeah, they are not isolating. So they are open the surrounding environment and sounds. Just like how open back headphones may not block anything out when worn.

If you change the settings on the app before connecting to your laptop, the mode may stick. Or change the settings so you can enable/disable it. I had the 'touch and hold' set to turn ambient on/off on my Buds+ and the 'labs' double tap the earpieces to adjust volume (not the touch pads but tap the housing).


----------



## chinmie (Aug 22, 2020)

This is the Wavelet setting that i use on my Apollo Bold (ANC mode on), if anyone's interested to try, and also @Tronsmart Official as an input if you're deciding to tune the Bold with firmware update. 

as the bass is quite potent, i have to use the bass tuner along with the EQ to cut the bass..the EQ alone would still sound boomy


i currently use the Spiral dot+ for its softer feel


----------



## VICosPhi

chinmie said:


> This is the Wavelet setting that i use on my Apollo Bold (ANC mode on), if anyone's interested to try, and also @Tronsmart Official as an input if you're deciding to tune the Bold with firmware update.
> 
> as the bass is quite potent, i have to use the bass tuner along with the EQ to cut the bass..the EQ alone would still sound boomy
> 
> ...


How are the Spiral dot+ compared to the regular Spiral dot in terms of bass/treble? I have heard the bass is softer on the +?


----------



## chinmie

VICosPhi said:


> How are the Spiral dot+ compared to the regular Spiral dot in terms of bass/treble? I have heard the bass is softer on the +?



i haven't paid much attention to bass, but the treble is more "dispersed" on the dot+, giving it a more smooth treble sound, while the older dot have a more solid attack on the treble sound. the surface feel are also different, with the newer dot+ bring slightly softer and gummy-er than the old one


----------



## DynamicEars

VICosPhi said:


> How are the Spiral dot+ compared to the regular Spiral dot in terms of bass/treble? I have heard the bass is softer on the +?





chinmie said:


> i haven't paid much attention to bass, but the treble is more "dispersed" on the dot+, giving it a more smooth treble sound, while the older dot have a more solid attack on the treble sound. the surface feel are also different, with the newer dot+ bring slightly softer and gummy-er than the old one



Spiral dot++ using softer material, like more absorbing, not necessarily kill the highs more to soften the resonance, thus made treble smooth. Like @chinmie said, i have similar experience, more bouncy and chewy than regular spiral dot.
Same with the new azla xelastec, they also a bit gummy materials so absorbing highs but due wide bore opening 5-6khz is more than medium/small bore eartips.

For the bass, if you want faster, rounded, or drier sound, pick a harder material eartips (but of course highs will be more ringing too) that explain why spiral dot++ made sound become smoothen, bouncy including the bass. Not necessarily good or bad things depends on your IEM characteristic.


----------



## chinmie

DynamicEars said:


> Spiral dot++ using softer material, like more absorbing, not necessarily kill the highs more to soften the resonance, thus made treble smooth. Like @chinmie said, i have similar experience, more bouncy and chewy than regular spiral dot.
> Same with the new azla xelastec, they also a bit gummy materials so absorbing highs but due wide bore opening 5-6khz is more than medium/small bore eartips.
> 
> For the bass, if you want faster, rounded, or drier sound, pick a harder material eartips (but of course highs will be more ringing too) that explain why spiral dot++ made sound become smoothen, bouncy including the bass. Not necessarily good or bad things depends on your IEM characteristic.



do you ever feel that after comparing and tip rolling so much, that you can somewhat guess what an eartips would sound like, just by looking and feeling the material?


----------



## bronco1015

]


phaeton70 said:


> so maybe I discovered something about the Apollo. yesterday I had them tried by an "audiophile" friend, and ask him if he could hear anything different w/ ANC on (w/o being specific on the difference so that to not influence). interestingly enough, he did say he could hear a slight sub-bass (under 60Hz) boom when ANC was on... ouch  ... so I tried the Apollo and.... the volume he was using was much higher than I use to listen to, and yes at this volume I can hear a sub-bass increase when ANC or Ambient is on, while I'm still hearing no difference in the mids/highs. so I asked him to listen again to a lower volume (similar to what I'm used to) and...surprise...he could hear no difference.... increasing confusion....
> [ /QUOTE]I don't know what to tell ya. Up until i saw this post i figured maybe you got an outlier. It reminded me of tyll's Focal Utopia unit he got in for review that sounded different from what others heard from there units. it's rare for me to listen past 60% with anything, and it's usually closer to 50% for my top volume. But i turned them down to a rediculous 5% and i can still hear it plain as day. i turned them up a bit and turned my source down, my V60, and can still hear it at these lower volumes.


----------



## DynamicEars

chinmie said:


> do you ever feel that after comparing and tip rolling so much, that you can somewhat guess what an eartips would sound like, just by looking and feeling the material?



yeah, i mean by the time you will recognize the characteristic of the tips, just like copper and silver cable. Think i am more of eartips collector than IEM collector lol, i bought almost every eartips unless i can't get them easily, and foam, becuase not a fan of foam (but still have comply, dekoni, moondrop foam, ikko i planet, misodiko, new bee, generic chinese foam etc)


----------



## DB10

Hi,

thanks for all your help, 



MadMike said:


> I definitely recommend the S500Ws over the XM3s- better fit, slightly better sound and ANC. Plus more options to control everything from the touchpads. Can't control volume from XM3 without giving up other controls.





Shadowclash10 said:


> And the XM3s are bulkier - both the earbuds themselves and the case. TBH, some reviewers do say the XM3s have the best in-class ANC, but it and SQ must be marginal differences compared to the S500Ws - regardless of which is better there. Regardless, I'd still hands down pick the Panasonics - they have a better fit, full controls, smaller earbuds and case themselves. So yeah.
> 
> Argh, those names!



I think that I will definitely send them back to Amazon because although they sound fine for me (Sony XM3) simply they don't fit in my ears, and that is a major issue. Moreover, they are not suited for sports and that is also quite an important problem for me. The Panasonic, based on your review, could be the best available option for my needs...

Have a nice weekend and thanks again for all your help and support.


----------



## webvan

Just noticed an issue with the RZ-S500, the ANC is very sensitive to slight pressure changes. Now we've all noticed "pops" when using ANC in the subway when the doors close for instance but this is different as it happens in a moving car when there are bumps on the road. I can't say I've ever had that with other ANC devices, be they headphones or TWEs so something to keep in mind.


----------



## C_Lindbergh (Aug 22, 2020)

cheesesteak said:


> Saw that you are able to get eartips for the galaxy buds live in Korea, wondered why didn't they just include it in the package.




Wow, I really wanna try that, it must feel much more comfy compared to the plain plastic, might improve SQ a tiny bit as well?


----------



## regancipher

@Caipirina was it you asking about the Nillkin Go TW004?

I got them today. Well, they are different to any other set of earbuds I've ever tried. They don't have any ANC but the passive NC is so strong I couldn't hear the TV or the fan. I was shouting to my GF.

The sound quality was rubbish with the normal size tips. Often I have to size down so I did, and it got worse...but only in one ear, the right sounded incredible. So I pulled them out and realised, I'd put the larger tip on the right by mistake 

When I put the larger tip on the left, the isolation became even stronger. The microphone has come out on top, out of all the TWS I've tried. It's clear, the noise reduction is magnificent and there's no dips or drops. Yet to try external yet.

Now the sound quality. Houston, we have a problem. I played Everybody Wants To Rule The World by Tears For Fears first, fantastic, sounded great. Then I'll Be There by Jess Glynn. Ugh. What a mess. High mids very scratchy and overall too 'roomy'. Then I tried a couple of Pavarotti tracks. Again, it just didn't sound atmospheric at all. How can this be?

I decided to put them through the testing process and will review in due course properly but they are a tough one for me to like. There's nothing beyond 17Khz. The frequency response is not the usual three humps you see on most headphones. It's an almost linear regression from 10k onwards.

I didn't believe it so I ran it through a second piece of software I occasionally use as a sanity check. Worse. At 48k it falls off the chart around 16KHz.

I'm probably gonna contact Nillkin because this doesn't seem right at all, and also because apart from the poor frequency response they are a work of rare beauty. The fit, case, everything is wonderful. But then you put the Apollo in your ears and you realise how good the Tronsmart are. Everything sounds....well, exactly like it's meant to


----------



## Shadowclash10

DB10 said:


> Hi,
> 
> thanks for all your help,
> 
> ...


And they have IPX4, and are still cheaper than the XM3s, even if you got the XM3s discounted at $168-178.
One thing though - what will your source device be?

BTW there are a few cons compared to the Sonys FYI: there is no ambient mode, and the mics and battery are a bit worse.


----------



## d3myz (Aug 22, 2020)

chinmie said:


> This is the Wavelet setting that i use on my Apollo Bold (ANC mode on), if anyone's interested to try, and also @Tronsmart Official as an input if you're deciding to tune the Bold with firmware update.
> 
> as the bass is quite potent, i have to use the bass tuner along with the EQ to cut the bass..the EQ alone would still sound boomy
> 
> ...


Hey Man, what do you mean by "and also @Tronsmart Official as an input if you're deciding to tune the Bold with firmware update.?" I'm on iOS and their current Tronsmart app doesn't support the bold, but it desperately needs a firmware update. I think the sound quality is really good when they are set to off, but i agree the bass is too much and the highs and mids get muddy on ambient and ANC modes. Another thing I've been told while on conf. calls and phone calls is that the mics are way to sensitive and they pick up EVERYTHING in the background when i'm in an noisy environment. I'd love to see them fix the CVC issue, the delay between modes, give us the ability to disable voice prompts and some of the connectivity issues i've been experiencing because I think they are pretty great buds all around.


----------



## chinmie

d3myz said:


> Hey Man, what do you mean by "and also @Tronsmart Official as an input if you're deciding to tune the Bold with firmware update.?" I'm on iOS and their current Tronsmart app doesn't support the bold, but it desperately needs a firmware update. I think the sound quality is really good when they are set to off, but i agree the bass is too much and the highs and mids get muddy on ambient and ANC modes. Another thing I've been told while on conf. calls and phone calls is that the mics are way to sensitive and they pick up EVERYTHING in the background when i'm in an noisy environment. I'd love to see them fix the CVC issue, the delay between modes, give us the ability to disable voice prompts and some of the connectivity issues i've been experiencing because I think they are pretty great buds all around.



they mentioned a couple of pages back that there's going to be an app for the Bold coming in September, but i don't know whether it can do firmware updates too. i really hope it can though, and the first order of correction that i can suggest (and it seems many others here) is the bass reduction on ANC/ambient mode. 

the mids and highs is seriously quite good on this. with those Wavelet tweaks, it really helps balanced out the sound 

i haven't tested the call quality yet, but i did tested it for bicycle riding around the block. it seems to not picking up wind noise on ANC mode.


----------



## Caipirina

ssouthall6 said:


> @Caipirina was it you asking about the Nillkin Go TW004?
> 
> I got them today. Well, they are different to any other set of earbuds I've ever tried. They don't have any ANC but the passive NC is so strong I couldn't hear the TV or the fan. I was shouting to my GF.
> 
> ...



Nope, that wasn’t me. Actually had to google those, they are different from the Nilkin GO I often recommend as ‘thudless’


----------



## Caipirina (Aug 22, 2020)

Received the GBeans! And I keep smiling at that juicy sound!! Quite impressive.
handling and fit also A+ ... and they are THUDLESS!!! (Not sure if I’d take them running though. My sweating might be more than IPX2 is equipped to handle) 
ANC, yep, like what everyone else is saying (including Samsung’s website) ... I don’t think it is meant to be a total ANC, but really just ‘getting rid of low rumble’
Well, will Test them around for a bit and decide keep or go.
I actually just sent back my SL2Ps ... as impressive as they are, I barely used them in the last 4 weeks and realized that I will never use them for running. I consider them ‘sit down in silent room’ buds. And that just does not really happen in my world.


----------



## Caipirina

Different topic. Does anyone own the Jaybird Vista and can say a bit about them! Are the tips comparable with the Bose stay hear semi open tips? Someone wants me to get them for them and I was wondering why I have never heard of them and why they are still 179€, with rather meh specs ...


----------



## Shadowclash10

Caipirina said:


> Different topic. Does anyone own the Jaybird Vista and can say a bit about them! Are the tips comparable with the Bose stay hear semi open tips? Someone wants me to get them for them and I was wondering why I have never heard of them and why they are still 179€, with rather meh specs ...


I don't own them, but I remember being interested in them a while back. General reviewer consensus was that they are pricey (and that was back in 2019 - so it is a bit outdated). However, there aren't that many consumer brand TWS that specifically market towards athletes/people who excercise frequently with their buds. Battery life is disappointing, sound isn't amazing. It is "only" IPX7, not IPX8. However, it does meet MIL-SPEC STD810G (a US military standard that essentially guarentees a piece of equipment to be field ready - you'll find this alot on rugged phones and watches - it doesn't necessarily cater to the military, just if you are a very outdoorsey type). It also has physical buttons, which is nice when excercising. It's kinda like a Javra 75t Active or smth. I think the only reason why you'd wanna buy this is if you go hiking or somthing alot.


----------



## DB10

Shadowclash10 said:


> And they have IPX4, and are still cheaper than the XM3s, even if you got the XM3s discounted at $168-178.
> One thing though - what will your source device be?
> 
> BTW there are a few cons compared to the Sonys FYI: there is no ambient mode, and the mics and battery are a bit worse.



Hi @Shadowclash10 thanks for your useful information about the Panasonic TWS. I use as main source my Android phone, it has Android 10 and supports APTx and APTx-HD but it does not LDAC, that is my only source nowadays. Might be that on December (more or less) I would change it but I will buy a new Android, I am not an iPhone user.

Thanks again and all the best!


----------



## d3myz (Aug 22, 2020)

Just wanted to put in my two cents about the Panasonic RZ-S500w and the Technics AZ70. I got both of these yesterday because I have been dying to try them out and they were both on sale on Amazon US. I've updated them both to their latest firmware, which I feel like hurt the sound of the Techniques a bit.

*Pros *- Build quality is very good, better on the Technics (metal finish is fantastic)

            Touch Controls are responsive and work every time I touch them, they are also reasonable quick.

            Battery life is great so far.

            Connection is rock solid, phone calls are great, however you can't really adjust the sidetone while on a call, that's a con.

            USB-C charging

            Comfortable to wear for long periods and the ear tips they come with are also very comfortable and in an assortment of sizes.

            Sound Quality - this is a pro and a con. The quality is very good, but not amazing. it's def. better on the Technics. No sub or ok punchy bass.
            anyone who owns the Tevi's will know what i'm talking about when I say these just don't have the detail and sound stage the Tevi has, but The Pannny's and Technics aren't
            terrrible to listen to by any means, they actually sound quite good. I like that the app has a basic graphic eq, even if it's quite limited. They don't quite sparkle on the high end like             the tevi or the FIIL. (tested at AAC with stock tips.) but overall I quite like the Techniques, the more I listened to them the more I liked them.

*Cons* - Ambient Mode- Sorry but this is TERRIBLE on both. The sound is really muffled and just not loud enough to do any good. compared to the APPs, Elite 75T and the Apollo Bold, these sound like crap.

            ANC- The ANC is def. effective and i'd say it's very good but not like the APPs and XM3's. Even with the passive noise isolation you get from having the buds sealed in your ear canals, they should just do a much better job. My thought is they lightened up on ANC to save battery.

            No Wireless Charging, for the money, then should have this feature

            Customizable Controls - I'd like to see them take after Jabra and allow users to customize the controls without compromising features like the XM3 etc..

            Price - Personally for $150-200 an earbud should have better ambient sound and ANC. If Tronsmart is making a comparable product for $80, these should be in the $100 - 130 range IMO. Don't get me wrong, they are much nicer quality than the Apollo and they sound better, but it's not night and day by any means.

Overall, if you don't already own a pair of ANC/Ambient TWS, these are worth considering, especially if you don't' care about the ambient mode, because it's almost useless. i'd give them a  7.5/10. For me personally they are both going back to amazon. I will mention also, the Panny's I received were purchased new and they came used, I spent some time cleaning them and getting someone else's ear wax off them . I called Amazon to inform them and they told me to call Panasonic.   Idiots.


----------



## voicemaster

C_Lindbergh said:


> Wow, I really wanna try that, it must feel much more comfy compared to the plain plastic, might improve SQ a tiny bit as well?


Well need to try it, but from my experience, the beans sound pretty bad when there is too much seal.


----------



## d3myz

chinmie said:


> they mentioned a couple of pages back that there's going to be an app for the Bold coming in September, but i don't know whether it can do firmware updates too. i really hope it can though, and the first order of correction that i can suggest (and it seems many others here) is the bass reduction on ANC/ambient mode.
> 
> the mids and highs is seriously quite good on this. with those Wavelet tweaks, it really helps balanced out the sound
> 
> i haven't tested the call quality yet, but i did tested it for bicycle riding around the block. it seems to not picking up wind noise on ANC mode.



I was told on a zoom call that people could hear my AC unit in the background, I was downstairs in my house and in the room I was in it's audible but still pretty quiet and when I chew gum with them in, folks said it sounded like I was attached to a hearbeat monitor etc. not things anyone has ever commented on before, so I guess the mics are Too good. LOL.


----------



## Caipirina

d3myz said:


> Just wanted to put in my two cents about the Panasonic RZ-S500w and the Technics AZ70. I got both of these yesterday because I have been dying to try them out and they were both on sale on Amazon US. I've updated them both to their latest firmware, which I feel like hurt the sound of the Techniques a bit.
> 
> *Pros *- Build quality is very good, better on the Technics (metal finish is fantastic)
> 
> ...


Thanks for that! I actually had ordered the Technics last night to see how much better they are compared to the Pana500 ... and then I cancelled 20 minutes later. Somehow I don’t fell i ‘deserve’ a 255€ (from warehouse, regular would be 271) set of TWS ... I think I am quite happy with the Panasonic. And I have the Apollo.. so, well enough covered


----------



## voicemaster

Caipirina said:


> Received the GBeans! And I keep smiling at that juicy sound!! Quite impressive.
> handling and fit also A+ ... and they are THUDLESS!!! (Not sure if I’d take them running though. My sweating might be more than IPX2 is equipped to handle)
> ANC, yep, like what everyone else is saying (including Samsung’s website) ... I don’t think it is meant to be a total ANC, but really just ‘getting rid of low rumble’
> Well, will Test them around for a bit and decide keep or go.
> I actually just sent back my SL2Ps ... as impressive as they are, I barely used them in the last 4 weeks and realized that I will never use them for running. I consider them ‘sit down in silent room’ buds. And that just does not really happen in my world.


It is actually an impressive feat to be able to produce this amount of bass without "seal". I don't think I have ever experience this with IEM. Usually no seal = no bass, treble is pitchy. You only get this kind of bass with an open headphone with 40mm+ driver and the beans have only 12mm driver. Combine it with the no seal design, you get this massive amount of air just like an open headphone is.


----------



## d3myz

Caipirina said:


> Thanks for that! I actually had ordered the Technics last night to see how much better they are compared to the Pana500 ... and then I cancelled 20 minutes later. Somehow I don’t fell i ‘deserve’ a 255€ (from warehouse, regular would be 271) set of TWS ... I think I am quite happy with the Panasonic. And I have the Apollo.. so, well enough covered


Yea, they are definitely nicer aesthetically, I just did another side by side and honestly I don't think there's a difference in SQ at all.  I personally think the panny's look better and are more comfortable. They are all around very nice, they ambient just sucks on them. That could be resolved by a new firware that bump the mics up. maybe I will keep them... hmmm....


----------



## DB10

d3myz said:


> Just wanted to put in my two cents about the Panasonic RZ-S500w and the Technics AZ70. I got both of these yesterday because I have been dying to try them out and they were both on sale on Amazon US. I've updated them both to their latest firmware, which I feel like hurt the sound of the Techniques a bit.
> 
> *Pros *- Build quality is very good, better on the Technics (metal finish is fantastic)
> 
> ...



Hi, I was going to send back to Amazon the Sonys and buy the Panasonic but now I am (more) confused about this, thanks for your useful tips and review.

Greetings,


----------



## d3myz

One thing I left off on my RZ-S500w and AZ70 review is that they are both really noisy when i'm bouncing. like going up and down stairs or running, I wouldn't recommend these for any activity that is going to create hard footfalls.


----------



## d3myz

@Caipirina

 Edit, The techniques sound brighter and have a bit better highs, but the Panny's have a little betters low comparing both with the EQ's off. With the my JVC Spinfits I feel like the Panny's are nearly as good and certainly don't justify the cost of the Techniques. It's almost like the diff. in the Nural N6 and N6 pro.


----------



## C_Lindbergh

voicemaster said:


> Well need to try it, but from my experience, the beans sound pretty bad when there is too much seal.



Yeah probably, but I suspect they will make the Buds Live even more comfortable.


----------



## logiatype

d3myz said:


> @Caipirina
> 
> Edit, The techniques sound brighter and have a bit better highs, but the Panny's have a little betters low comparing both with the EQ's off. With the my JVC Spinfits I feel like the Panny's are nearly as good and certainly don't justify the cost of the Techniques. It's almost like the diff. in the Nural N6 and N6 pro.


So where would you put the N6 pro relative to the two of them?


----------



## webvan (Aug 22, 2020)

Surprising feedback on the Panasonics ! Like I wrote yesterday they produce the best passive+active isolation I've experienced, just very slightly behind the EchoBuds. Audibly ahead of the MTW2s and XM3s. It is way better than the APPs in any case since these have poor (by design) passive isolation. Sure ANC is impressive when you activate it on the APPs but what matters is the end result, not the wow factor promoted by the likes of ijustine. 

Can't fault Ambient either, I was able to check out at the grocery store with no problem. What's lacking compared to the EchoBuds is the Ambient + Auto Pause option.

The real concern with ANC is the popping I described earlier when there are slight pressure changes, even when riding in a carm

They're more expensive than the Apollo Bokf becase hey are clearly in a different class altogether than the Apollo Bold that have a buggy Ambient+Passive implementation, "unbalanced SQ, poor passive isolation, ultra sensitive controls, a finicky case, and no app...so far. As with many things you get what you pay for and the complexities of producing a good Ambient+ANC combo has not yet been achieved by "ChiFi".


----------



## Caipirina

voicemaster said:


> It is actually an impressive feat to be able to produce this amount of bass without "seal". I don't think I have ever experience this with IEM. Usually no seal = no bass, treble is pitchy. You only get this kind of bass with an open headphone with 40mm+ driver and the beans have only 12mm driver. Combine it with the no seal design, you get this massive amount of air just like an open headphone is.


I keep finding the Sabbat X12 similar impressive in that regard. Earbud style, yet ample bass ... which makes me really curious about the Vooplay ... what was that? 14.2mm driver?


----------



## Caipirina

trying (and thus far failing) to connect the Gbeans with my mac ... I disconnect from phone, but apparently that does not make them go into pairing mode ... somehow they also show up TWICE in my iPhone's list .. once with the (i) where I can say disconnect / forget and once without ..  confusing .. and google is still quiet on this fresh issue ...


----------



## webvan

voicemaster said:


> It is actually an impressive feat to be able to produce this amount of bass without "seal". I don't think I have ever experience this with IEM. *Usually no seal = no bass*, treble is pitchy. You only get this kind of bass with an open headphone with 40mm+ driver and the beans have only 12mm driver. Combine it with the no seal design, you get this massive amount of air just like an open headphone is.



Not necessarily, the AirPods have had a decent level of bass for years and the X12 offfer very pleasing bass in spite of their earbud/open design, their sound is not "tinny" at all, like it was on say the Plantronic Backbeat FIT.


----------



## voicemaster

webvan said:


> Not necessarily, the AirPods have had a decent level of bass for years and the X12 offfer very pleasing bass in spite of their earbud/open design, their sound is not "tinny" at all, like it was on say the Plantronic Backbeat FIT.


I have tried several airpods style tws (Tronsmart Onyx Ace) and they do have decent bass, but for me, I need to jammed it to get a "seal". If I move my jaw just a bit, the "seal" is broken and the sound become tinny. The "seal" I meant wasn't the seal you get from IEM with typical silicone/foam tips. I haven't tried the X12.


----------



## ChavaC

Is there a consensus which is better between the XM3 vs Buds+? I just picked up the former but wondering if I should give the Buds+ a go too.  Does having an android phone matter much between these two?


----------



## phaeton70

Panas arrived 













just 1h use, so maybe too early to judge, but for now I'm not so impressed.... not bad, but.... let's see if the burnin will improve things


----------



## assassin10000

Caipirina said:


> Received the GBeans!
> ANC, yep, like what everyone else is saying (including Samsung’s website) ... I don’t think it is meant to be a total ANC, but really just ‘getting rid of low rumble’



Did some more testing while driving. Does ok with in the city speed 50mph & under rumble/road noise when driving but at freeway speeds of 65+mph it doesn't do as much.



Caipirina said:


> I keep finding the Sabbat X12 similar impressive in that regard. Earbud style, yet ample bass ... which makes me really curious about the Vooplay ... what was that? 14.2mm driver?



X12 is also 14.2mm IIRC



webvan said:


> Not necessarily, the AirPods have had a decent level of bass for years and the X12 offfer very pleasing bass in spite of their earbud/open design, their sound is not "tinny" at all, like it was on say the Plantronic Backbeat FIT.





voicemaster said:


> I have tried several airpods style tws (Tronsmart Onyx Ace) and they do have decent bass, but for me, I need to jammed it to get a "seal". If I move my jaw just a bit, the "seal" is broken and the sound become tinny. The "seal" I meant wasn't the seal you get from IEM with typical silicone/foam tips. I haven't tried the X12.



My new X12 Ultra have way more bass than the older X12 Pro. If you want bass at a similar level to some IEM/isolation type TWS get the Ultra and not the Pro.


----------



## VICosPhi (Aug 22, 2020)

DynamicEars said:


> i have similar experience, more bouncy and chewy than regular spiral dot.
> Same with the new azla xelastec, they also a bit gummy materials so absorbing highs but due wide bore opening 5-6khz is more than medium/small bore eartips.
> 
> For the bass, if you want faster, rounded, or drier sound, pick a harder material eartips (but of course highs will be more ringing too) that explain why spiral dot++ made sound become smoothen, bouncy including the bass. Not necessarily good or bad things depends on your IEM characteristic.



Thanks! I like the sparkly treble on regular Spiral dots. From what you describe, it sounds like the treble amount is not reduced in Spidral dots+, rather the treble peak is cut down to make it sound more bouncy. I wonder if this means the "Sssss" in treble on regular Spiral dots will sound more like "Shshshsh" on the Spiral dots+ for the lack of better term


----------



## Caipirina

assassin10000 said:


> X12 is also 14.2mm IIRC


Took me a while to find any mention of driver size (and who knows if it is correct) but Linsoul says it’s 10mm


----------



## regancipher

Couple of reviews from me:

Tranya T10 - https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/tranya-t10.24564/reviews
Nillkin Go TW004 - https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/nillkin-go-tw004-aptx-wireless-earbuds-bt5-0-ipx6.24571/


----------



## assassin10000

Caipirina said:


> Took me a while to find any mention of driver size (and who knows if it is correct) but Linsoul says it’s 10mm



Lol. They quoted the wrong model.

E12 is 10mm
X12 is 14.2mm


Remember I've had mine apart.  Still have one good original driver with my spare parts. Just in case.


----------



## Uncle00Jesse

So can you really sleep on your side against the pillow comfortably with GBuds Live in? Or is that total BS?


----------



## voicemaster

Uncle00Jesse said:


> So can you really sleep on your side against the pillow comfortably with GBuds Live in? Or is that total BS?


You can. I just turned on "touch block" feature so I don't accidentally press "pause/play".


----------



## FYLegend

Does Tronsmart Apollo Bold have more bass than Sabbat E12? Which one is better-controlled?

I found the E12 Ultra to have better treble extension and flatter bass response with the green tips but I struggle to get a good seal. The red tips are more bassy but fit much better. Unfortunately I find it easy to lose these eartips and have since switched to my typical Audio-Technica IEM tips. They have a tighter seal for sound but actually feel more loose on my ears. Due to the Buds+ SBC debacle, they're still my main PC daily drivers despite the unit being a partial dud. With the AT tips the low end almost overpowers the highs - still bearable for me but a big contrast to my daily mobile driver the Galaxy Buds+. I want to have one warm and one lean TWS but something about the E12 with my remaining eartips feels off.

Anyways I decided on the TaoTronics SoundLiberty 94.


----------



## jasonb

So I've been having fit consistency issues with the Buds Live. The smaller rubber rings that come installed seem too small, and the bigger ones are too big. They should come with a third medium size. So what I did tonight was take the larger size and a piece of 150 grit sandpaper and just sanded them slightly smaller. Fit and sound seems better after just a little bit of sanding them slightly smaller. 

With them pushed in too far, which the large size was doing, the bass becomes bloated and the highs become muffled. So now with the large size shaved down a tiny bit, I can put the Beans in my ears and twist them back a little bit and move the speaker grill just enough away from my ear canal to remove the bass bloat and make the highs not sound muffled. 

With the smaller rubber rings installed it allowed too much movement in the fit and I wasn't getting consistent results even between both ears. I was always adjusting them and making sure I was getting the same sound left and right and it was making the experience very stressful and not enjoyable. So right now I'm using the slightly modified larger size rubber rings and the EQ on the clear setting and I am getting a very good and consistent sound.


----------



## Messi94

FYLegend said:


> Does Tronsmart Apollo Bold have more bass than Sabbat E12? Which one is better-controlled?
> 
> I found the E12 Ultra to have better treble extension and flatter bass response with the green tips but I struggle to get a good seal. The red tips are more bassy but fit much better. Unfortunately I find it easy to lose these eartips and have since switched to my typical Audio-Technica IEM tips. They have a tighter seal for sound but actually feel more loose on my ears. Due to the Buds+ SBC debacle, they're still my main PC daily drivers despite the unit being a partial dud. With the AT tips the low end almost overpowers the highs - still bearable for me but a big contrast to my daily mobile driver the Galaxy Buds+. I want to have one warm and one lean TWS but something about the E12 with my remaining eartips feels off.
> 
> Anyways I decided on the TaoTronics SoundLiberty 94.


Do you suggest buds + as daily driver with android?


----------



## voicemaster

jasonb said:


> So I've been having fit consistency issues with the Buds Live. The smaller rubber rings that come installed seem too small, and the bigger ones are too big. They should come with a third medium size. So what I did tonight was take the larger size and a piece of 150 grit sandpaper and just sanded them slightly smaller. Fit and sound seems better after just a little bit of sanding them slightly smaller.
> 
> With them pushed in too far, which the large size was doing, the bass becomes bloated and the highs become muffled. So now with the large size shaved down a tiny bit, I can put the Beans in my ears and twist them back a little bit and move the speaker grill just enough away from my ear canal to remove the bass bloat and make the highs not sound muffled.
> 
> With the smaller rubber rings installed it allowed too much movement in the fit and I wasn't getting consistent results even between both ears. I was always adjusting them and making sure I was getting the same sound left and right and it was making the experience very stressful and not enjoyable. So right now I'm using the slightly modified larger size rubber rings and the EQ on the clear setting and I am getting a very good and consistent sound.


For me just moving my jaw open and close will usually sit them in the right position.


----------



## Caipirina

Uncle00Jesse said:


> So can you really sleep on your side against the pillow comfortably with GBuds Live in? Or is that total BS?


I tried last night and ... well, it’s possible, but I did not find it overly comfortable. Plus the bud I was laying on got jammed in so hard that audio was blocked by ear cartilage...


----------



## phaeton70

chinmie said:


> This is the Wavelet setting that i use on my Apollo Bold (ANC mode on), if anyone's interested to try, and also @Tronsmart Official as an input if you're deciding to tune the Bold with firmware update.
> as the bass is quite potent, i have to use the bass tuner along with the EQ to cut the bass..the EQ alone would still sound boomy



ouch!! I'm definitely not hearing anything like that! yes, after some experimentation (I wrote something before) now I realize that depending on the volume I can hear a slight bass increase when ANC is on, but believe me really nothing like that, both in quantity and frequency (I can only hear a bass increase below 60Hz)... anyway, now I'm quite sure that mine must be a lucky case, so will no more comment on this.... 
but.... 
give me a last one.... 
regarding the fw update, I appreciate some don't like the bass presentation of the Apollo, but there are also some who actually like it  
maybe instead of a hard change in the fw, @Tronsmart Official I suggest this can be done with some preset eqs in the app, like a light/medium/hard bass correction (e.g. -2db/-4db/-6db centered @60Hz) so that everyone can choose their best fit


----------



## tgx78

phaeton70 said:


> ouch!! I'm definitely not hearing anything like that! yes, after some experimentation (I wrote something before) now I realize that depending on the volume I can hear a slight bass increase when ANC is on, but believe me really nothing like that, both in quantity and frequency (I can only hear a bass increase below 60Hz)... anyway, now I'm quite sure that mine must be a lucky case, so will no more comment on this....
> but....
> give me a last one....
> regarding the fw update, I appreciate some don't like the bass presentation of the Apollo, but there are also some who actually like it
> maybe instead of a hard change in the fw, @Tronsmart Official I suggest this can be done with some preset eqs in the app, like a light/medium/hard bass correction (e.g. -2db/-4db/-6db centered @60Hz) so that everyone can choose their best fit



I will probably need low shelf cut around -12dBs to enjoy mine with ANC.


----------



## chinmie

phaeton70 said:


> regarding the fw update, I appreciate some don't like the bass presentation of the Apollo, but there are also some who actually like it



indeed, I'm just saying statistically based on reports from members here, and from reviews such as youtube and scarbir's, there are more who prefer the bass cut. 

besides, from what i learned from my mixing days, it's much easier and better sounding to add bass with EQ, than to cut (and the opposite on treble) 



tgx78 said:


> I will probably need low shelf cut around -12dBs to enjoy mine with ANC.



from what i did on the Wavelet app (around -5+ db with EQ, and -5 with the bass tuner, we have similar conclusions about the amount of bass reduction


----------



## regancipher

phaeton70 said:


> ouch!! I'm definitely not hearing anything like that! yes, after some experimentation (I wrote something before) now I realize that depending on the volume I can hear a slight bass increase when ANC is on, but believe me really nothing like that, both in quantity and frequency (I can only hear a bass increase below 60Hz)... anyway, now I'm quite sure that mine must be a lucky case, so will no more comment on this....
> but....
> give me a last one....
> regarding the fw update, I appreciate some don't like the bass presentation of the Apollo, but there are also some who actually like it
> maybe instead of a hard change in the fw, @Tronsmart Official I suggest this can be done with some preset eqs in the app, like a light/medium/hard bass correction (e.g. -2db/-4db/-6db centered @60Hz) so that everyone can choose their best fit


That's two lucky cases then. Mine are no different with anc on at the lower end


----------



## DB10

webvan said:


> Surprising feedback on the Panasonics ! Like I wrote yesterday they produce the best passive+active isolation I've experienced, just very slightly behind the EchoBuds. Audibly ahead of the MTW2s and XM3s. It is way better than the APPs in any case since these have poor (by design) passive isolation. Sure ANC is impressive when you activate it on the APPs but what matters is the end result, not the wow factor promoted by the likes of ijustine.
> 
> Can't fault Ambient either, I was able to check out at the grocery store with no problem. What's lacking compared to the EchoBuds is the Ambient + Auto Pause option.
> 
> ...



Hi @webvan thanks, more information that without any doubt will be quite useful for all of us!

Greetings,


----------



## bronco1015

d3myz said:


> Hey Man, what do you mean by "and also @Tronsmart Official as an input if you're deciding to tune the Bold with firmware update.?" I'm on iOS and their current Tronsmart app doesn't support the bold, but it desperately needs a firmware update. I think the sound quality is really good when they are set to off, but i agree the bass is too much and the highs and mids get muddy on ambient and ANC modes. Another thing I've been told while on conf. calls and phone calls is that the mics are way to sensitive and they pick up EVERYTHING in the background when i'm in an noisy environment. I'd love to see them fix the CVC issue, the delay between modes, give us the ability to disable voice prompts and some of the connectivity issues i've been experiencing because I think they are pretty great buds all around.
> [/QUOTEAre you running IOS14 beta?  Thought you'd mentioned that in a previous post a few days ago. Asking because i've seen a couple other people mention it on here, and i've seen numerous posts onlin in general about BT issues on the beta. the mics on the Apollo's are in my experience way to sensitive to background noise, and people have a hard time hearing me. one person put it this way. "i couldn't  hear you, but i could hear everything around you and everything she was saying very clearly.' She being my friend telling her kid to quiet down lol. Can't wait for the app to come to make adjustments here and there, but the Apollo bold's are over all a winner in my book. And this might have already been addressed in future posts, responding real time but the app you are using isn't for the Apollos. They're coming out with a new one.
> Also, you have delays between modes? like audio stops when switching from Ambiant to off or what? That's not something i've seen other people mention, and mine switch while music is playing it never stops.


----------



## regancipher

I'm running IOS 14 beta @d3myz 

The microphones are quite muffled, but the background noise isn't any worse than any other set I've used. It does a pretty good job of isolating IMO.

You should hear the Nillkin TW004...my god, outside the only thing that doesn't pass through the microphone is your voice!!


----------



## webvan

Went for an off-road bike ride this morning and took both the Panasonics and the Bomaker SiFI II, my goto TWEs for passive isolation and ability to keep the seal. Well the Panasonics didn't stay long in my ears, as expected the wind noise was picked up by the mics in both Ambient and ANC modes but unexpectedly the wind noise was also more than it should have been in OFF mode. Same problem as with the MTW2 in fact. Other ANC TWEs like the EchoBuds or XM3s (you can't turn off ANC on the LTA+) don't have that problem. I'm not sure what's going on and why they would keep the mics on...in any case that makes them rather useless for bike riding.

@DB10 - you're quite welcome !


----------



## bronco1015

webvan said:


> Surprising feedback on the Panasonics ! Like I wrote yesterday they produce the best passive+active isolation I've experienced, just very slightly behind the EchoBuds. Audibly ahead of the MTW2s and XM3s. It is way better than the APPs in any case since these have poor (by design) passive isolation. Sure ANC is impressive when you activate it on the APPs but what matters is the end result, not the wow factor promoted by the likes of ijustine.
> 
> Can't fault Ambient either, I was able to check out at the grocery store with no problem. What's lacking compared to the EchoBuds is the Ambient + Auto Pause option.
> 
> ...


Wow. for me, the Ambiant is a strength of the Apollo. Sounds way better than on my og mtw, and right up with the MTW2 just a hair quieter and not as full sounding.. Though rereading your post you may be talking about ambiant with the music and that is not a great experience. But just ambiant by itself for me is great.


----------



## Caipirina (Aug 23, 2020)

Took the GBeans out for a 2h run this morning and overall they performed *awesomely* (is that even a proper adverb?)
There is no thud! The sound is dynamic & very engaging. No wind noise to speak of. They sit firmly in my conchae and the ‘block touch’ function is one of the best new features on TWS ever. Wish more had that / still
implement via app if possible. This means I can adjust the buds as much as I want without triggering anything.
The one thing that’s raining on my parade: the connection! This feels like a step back to my Sony SP700N from 2018. While in general the connection is pretty solid (not rock solid mind you), there is one scenario while running when it breaks off, repeatedly!
Turning my head to the left!!!


My phone sits in a belt at my kidneys. So, assuming the right bud is the main connection, as soon as I turn my head to the left, there’s more bone, head, mass for the BT connection to penetrate. Of course I can avoid that by NOT turning my head. But with respect to traffic safety, this might not be the best approach.
I wish they would come up with a sports version that adds a bit to the meager IPX2 rating, and maybe in nice bright sporty signal colors, easy to find in case of dropage ... matte finish / rubberized for better fit ...


----------



## Caipirina

cheesesteak said:


> Saw that you are able to get eartips for the galaxy buds live in Korea, wondered why didn't they just include it in the package.



Wow ... I just watched the whole thing ... super interesting ... obviously they don't want everyone to have it ... because I think it makes it look a bit silly? ANd imagine the field day YT reviewers would have with these socks / condoms if they were supplied in every box  

Seems that the Beans fit most (Korean) ears .. maybe for bigger Western ears there should be an easier option to get them ...


----------



## webvan

Sounds good but do they add anything to what you get when running with the X12 for a lot less money ? 



bronco1015 said:


> Wow. for me, the Ambiant is a strength of the Apollo. Sounds way better than on my og mtw, and right up with the MTW2 just a hair quieter and not as full sounding.. Though rereading your post you may be talking about ambiant with the music and that is not a great experience. But just ambiant by itself for me is great.



Yes, I was referring to the fact that the SQ gets messed up when ANC and Ambient are turned on, although it's less obvious in Ambient and less of a problem since you would normally not be listening to music with Ambient as that feature mostly makes sense to interact without removing the earbuds.


----------



## Caipirina

webvan said:


> Sounds good but do they add anything to what you get when running with the X12 for a lot less money ?



would need to do some A/B ing, but I like the SQ of the Beans a bit better. Fit of the X12 is more secure, but that’s also because I put the wings on before every run  
On paper, the Beans have EQ (presets) and ANC, which today on the run did not really notice. But Sunday morning- quiet ...
And sure, the X12 are cheaper ...


----------



## ngd3

Just got my set of Apollos yesterday (free set for review). I'll hold off on a full review until the app and firmware updates are available, since right now my set is obnoxiously bassy like others have mentioned. I like a lot of subbass usually, but the Apollos are almost unlistenable without EQ. The Liberty 2 Pros are a much better basshead option that also fit better for me. At this point I'm just confused why Tronsmart released them tuned with so much bass before the app was ready. Other than that, fit is meh. I'll need to try different tips to get a more secure fit. The case is OK, small and pocketable but looks cheap. The actual buds look great. Touch controls seem to work very well.

I'll call my thoughts on these incomplete. Definitely not recommended currently, but hopefully the app and fw updates will be available soon. The DD driver quality seems good, just really need better tuning options before I'll actually want to listen to them


----------



## chinmie

ngd3 said:


> Just got my set of Apollos yesterday (free set for review). I'll hold off on a full review until the app and firmware updates are available, since right now my set is obnoxiously bassy like others have mentioned. I like a lot of subbass usually, but the Apollos are almost unlistenable without EQ. The Liberty 2 Pros are a much better basshead option that also fit better for me. At this point I'm just confused why Tronsmart released them tuned with so much bass before the app was ready. Other than that, fit is meh. I'll need to try different tips to get a more secure fit. The case is OK, small and pocketable but looks cheap. The actual buds look great. Touch controls seem to work very well.
> 
> I'll call my thoughts on these incomplete. Definitely not recommended currently, but hopefully the app and fw updates will be available soon. The DD driver quality seems good, just really need better tuning options before I'll actually want to listen to them



while waiting for the official app, if you have the Wavelet app, try this setting, see if it can make the bass listenable for you
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/goi...soon-or-are-we-there-yet.861024/post-15818091

also I'm starting to notice that the mids characteristics also changed a bit between "ANC on" and "off" , with the off mode the mids seems thicker and meatier. it's like the "ANC mode on" not only boosts the bass, but also dips out some freq notch somewhere in the mids


----------



## webvan (Aug 23, 2020)

Yes I mentioned that early on, not only does the bass gets a nasty boost but the highs get muffled out. It's hard to believe no one at Tronsmart noticed that...or maybe they did and didn't know how to deal with it. Upon closer listen I also noticed that with ANC Off the sound was somewhat unbalanced with some emphasis in the left channel. When ANC is turned ON that imbalance actually gets slightly rectified.

On another bad note for TWSs rtings have released their SP800N review : https://www.rtings.com/headphones/reviews/sony/wf-sp800n-truly-wireless  and while they find some positive in the fit they (uncharacteristically) describe the ANC as being "useless" ! Oddly that's not a takeaway from reviews posted here where it was only described as "not quite as good" as on the XM3s. Took them off my Amazon wishlist !


----------



## ngd3

chinmie said:


> while waiting for the official app, if you have the Wavelet app, try this setting, see if it can make the bass listenable for you
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/goi...soon-or-are-we-there-yet.861024/post-15818091
> 
> also I'm starting to notice that the mids characteristics also changed a bit between "ANC on" and "off" , with the off mode the mids seems thicker and meatier. it's like the "ANC mode on" not only boosts the bass, but also dips out some freq notch somewhere in the mids


I actually took a screen grab of that the other day 

I came to something similar, but for some reason the bass tuning options get grayed out on Wavelet. Haven't figured out why...sometimes they are available,  sometimes not...might be a codec thing? Either way, not a good sign for the tuning when people are rolling off bass so much right away


----------



## Sam L

I'm guessing this thread has more mention of the wavelet app than others I'm in.

Have any of you built custom wavelet compensation files? I exported some measurements and tried some spreadsheet macros but it's time consuming and I'm not very strong with my spreadsheets skills


----------



## regancipher

Everyone who is finding the Apollo's too bassy, what are you listening on?

I've tried AAC via iPhone and aptx via Windows 10 with FLAC....not only is it very clear, different frequency basslines are completely discernible. 

I'm starting to wonder if I'm doing something wrong because they sound perfect to me!!


----------



## tgx78

ssouthall6 said:


> Everyone who is finding the Apollo's too bassy, what are you listening on?
> 
> I've tried AAC via iPhone and aptx via Windows 10 with FLAC....not only is it very clear, different frequency basslines are completely discernible.
> 
> I'm starting to wonder if I'm doing something wrong because they sound perfect to me!!



AAC on iPhone 6S / X and aptx on my Android P20 pro.
Your Apollo seems an outlier.
Mine is boosted 25dbs above 1kHz baseline and unlistenable unless I cut heavily with EQ. 

Though I admit it sounds really good after EQing. As I said before diaphragm seems sport pretty good coating. Mid to High frequency timbre is quite agreeable.


----------



## webvan

Outlier or not it seems most unlikely that there would be zero bass boost and mid/highs "muffling" when ANC is turned ON as that's a software feature, give them a closer listen !


----------



## phaeton70

Android (S9+), aptX and AAC. listen to mainly rock and jazz, sometimes trip-hop and IDM.
I'm another outlier, my Apollo seems to be very differently tuned from what I'm reading here, and yes I can hear a slight bump in the sub-bass (60Hz and below) with ANC on and quite high volume (for my listening habits... above 60% on my S9+, I typically listen to 30%), but nothing close to what is experienced by you guys. and no muffled mids/highs. 
until Tronsmart will clarify, I'll stop commenting on this.


----------



## phaeton70 (Aug 23, 2020)

ssouthall6 said:


> ..



can I ask where you bought yours? I bought mine beginning of aug from geekbuying (EU), shipping from IT.
(I'm asking because I just checked on geekbuying and there are 65 feedbacks, 62 5/5 and 3 4/5)


----------



## Peddler

ngd3 said:


> Just got my set of Apollos yesterday (free set for review). I'll hold off on a full review until the app and firmware updates are available, since right now my set is obnoxiously bassy like others have mentioned. I like a lot of subbass usually, but the Apollos are almost unlistenable without EQ. The Liberty 2 Pros are a much better basshead option that also fit better for me. At this point I'm just confused why Tronsmart released them tuned with so much bass before the app was ready. Other than that, fit is meh. I'll need to try different tips to get a more secure fit. The case is OK, small and pocketable but looks cheap. The actual buds look great. Touch controls seem to work very well.
> 
> I'll call my thoughts on these incomplete. Definitely not recommended currently, but hopefully the app and fw updates will be available soon. The DD driver quality seems good, just really need better tuning options before I'll actually want to listen to them



I agree about their excessive bass but it's definitely worth running them for a few days (as non-stop as possible) with some bass-heavy music as they do calm down somewhat after break-in. Where they do work quite well for me is when I'm driving my truck - the additional bass helps overcome the engine/road noise - anc takes out some of the lower frequencies quite nicely and I can still hear ambulances and the like.  I normally only listen to talking books when driving but I've started to listen to music again with the Apollo's.

I'm still looking forward to the app - hopefully the Apollo's are able to store their EQ settings on the buds themselves so they can be used on my Walkman (and so EQ settings don't affect my other headphones as I never normally use EQ).


----------



## Alphasoixante

I'm looking for a recommendation for TWS. 

If anyone has heard the Final Audio E5000s and can recommend a TWS that gets to that sound as close as possible, I would really appreciate it. For anyone who is unfamiliar with their sound -- they have an enormous low end, lush mid-range and detailed but laid back treble. I am VERY sensitive to sibilance because of chronic jaw pain and the E5000s are the best sound for me (that I've heard). Maybe the TWS version (or something close to it) doesn't exist and I will have to compromise with one of those neckband MMCX solutions like the FiiO LC-BT2 or the ikko ARC ITB05. Anway, I would really appreciate your thoughts.

For reference: I have tried MPOW T5, Tranya T3, Enacfire E60 and Phaiser Fusion 1. My favorite has been the T5, although it doesn't have the sub bass I'm looking for.


----------



## Aevum

I doubt you´re going to find a TWS with that refinement, the AKG N400 might comes close. 

Theres also the Ibasso MMCX adaptor.


----------



## assassin10000 (Aug 23, 2020)

Maybe the Mavin Air-XR? I don't know if I can call the low end massive but it has good quantity and reaches deep. Still my personal favorite.

I had the anker soundcore liberty 2 pro also and that had basshead quantity but way more treble. Fortunately it does have an app with both preset and user adjustable EQ, which saves on the buds. I didn't find the fit to be that good personally tho.




Take these with a grain of salt. I just got a Dayton IMM-6 (microphone) and am trying to get my measurements somewhat interpretable compared to standard stuff. I didn't have properly sized foam tips and was just using some clear vinyl/plastic tubing from the hardware store as the coupler. So the silicone bass may be slightly exaggerated and the foam less than it really is for both bass and upper treble.




Here is the ones done of the e5000 thanks to crinacle and his impressive database of measurements. Done with better equipment, experience and more towards industry standards than mine.




In any case, the general signature is more similar than I expected but I doubt the detail retrieval and other more technical qualities will be as good as the e5000. Might be worth a shot though.


----------



## Alphasoixante

Aevum said:


> I doubt you´re going to find a TWS with that refinement, the AKG N400 might comes close.
> 
> Theres also the Ibasso MMCX adaptor.


Yeah, I know it's a big ask. I will look into the N400's. Thanks!



assassin10000 said:


> Maybe the Mavin Air-XR? I don't know if I can call the low end massive but it has good quantity and reaches deep. Still my personal favorite.
> 
> I had the anker soundcore liberty 2 pro also and that had basshead quantity but way more treble. Fortunately it does have an app with both preset and user adjustable EQ, which saves on the buds. I didn't find the fit to be that good personally tho.
> 
> ...


Hey, thanks for such a great and detailed response. I haven't heard of the Mavin or Dayton. I've looked into the Soundcores and they look like they are too big and heavy (and not comfy) but perhaps I will try them out at some point. But I will look into the other two. Thanks!


----------



## erockg

Going to try these tips out and see if they work well.  Should have them Tuesday:  https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B08CDM69MP/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1


----------



## assassin10000

Alphasoixante said:


> Hey, thanks for such a great and detailed response. I haven't heard of the Mavin or Dayton. I've looked into the Soundcores and they look like they are too big and heavy (and not comfy) but perhaps I will try them out at some point. But I will look into the other two. Thanks!



Dayton IMM-6 is the microphone I used to take the measurements. So just the Mavins are what I was recommending as a possibility.


----------



## tgx78

Alphasoixante said:


> Yeah, I know it's a big ask. I will look into the N400's. Thanks!
> 
> 
> Hey, thanks for such a great and detailed response. I haven't heard of the Mavin or Dayton. I've looked into the Soundcores and they look like they are too big and heavy (and not comfy) but perhaps I will try them out at some point. But I will look into the other two. Thanks!








I love my N400 but you need to know it doesn’t sound anything like the E5000. 
It is brighter and not as warm sounding.


----------



## MadMike

d3myz said:


> Just wanted to put in my two cents about the Panasonic RZ-S500w and the Technics AZ70. I got both of these yesterday because I have been dying to try them out and they were both on sale on Amazon US. I've updated them both to their latest firmware, which I feel like hurt the sound of the Techniques a bit.
> 
> *Pros *- Build quality is very good, better on the Technics (metal finish is fantastic)
> 
> ...


Fair enough. One thing I definitely disagree with is ANC on the Panasonic's relative to the XM3- the Panny's are better for all of the scenarios I tested them in, which included mowing the lawn where the Panny's are much better and did not require me turning up the volume of the music, unlike the XM3s.


----------



## Alphasoixante

assassin10000 said:


> Dayton IMM-6 is the microphone I used to take the measurements.


Haha, oops! I was a little distracted at the time.

Are these the Mavins you mentioned?:

https://www.amazon.com/Wireless-Blu...1&keywords=Mavin+Air-XR&qid=1598230722&sr=8-1


----------



## Alphasoixante

tgx78 said:


> I love my N400 but you need to know it doesn’t sound anything like the E5000.
> It is brighter and not as warm sounding.


Good to know. Bright is definitely not my thing.


----------



## assassin10000

Alphasoixante said:


> Haha, oops! I was a little distracted at the time.
> 
> Are these the Mavins you mentioned?:
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/Wireless-Blu...1&keywords=Mavin+Air-XR&qid=1598230722&sr=8-1



Yep.


----------



## d3myz

MadMike said:


> Fair enough. One thing I definitely disagree with is ANC on the Panasonic's relative to the XM3- the Panny's are better for all of the scenarios I tested them in, which included mowing the lawn where the Panny's are much better and did not require me turning up the volume of the music, unlike the XM3s.


Interesting, I tested them mowing vs. the Apollo Bold with the panasonic M tips on both and the ANC was similar but the Bold provided more isolation. I've tested the XM3 vs. the Bold with the Medium tips that came with the bold and the XM3 is noticeably quieter. If they would just boost the ambient effect in the XM3 it would compete with the Bold, APP and the Elite 75t. The Apollo Bold does a lot of things very well, unfortunately the extra bass in ambient and ANC mode really makes me not want to use them until I can EQ them with an app.


----------



## Caipirina

erockg said:


> Going to try these tips out and see if they work well.  Should have them Tuesday:  https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B08CDM69MP/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1


 Took SpinFit a while to jump onto the APP bandwagon. Can’t wait to see what they cook up for the GBeans 
Looking fwd to your impressions. Not that it would be easy to get SpinFits here ... anytime soon ...


----------



## Tronsmart Official

d3myz said:


> Interesting, I tested them mowing vs. the Apollo Bold with the panasonic M tips on both and the ANC was similar but the Bold provided more isolation. I've tested the XM3 vs. the Bold with the Medium tips that came with the bold and the XM3 is noticeably quieter. If they would just boost the ambient effect in the XM3 it would compete with the Bold, APP and the Elite 75t. The Apollo Bold does a lot of things very well, unfortunately the extra bass in ambient and ANC mode really makes me not want to use them until I can EQ them with an app.


Thanks for your feedback.
Quote for a reply:
Tronsmart Apollo Bold APP is coming in Sep. When APP comes, you can switch different listening style by EQ control. Hope it helps for all of you.
Thanks.


----------



## d3myz

Tronsmart Official said:


> Thanks for your feedback.
> Quote for a reply:
> Tronsmart Apollo Bold APP is coming in Sep. When APP comes, you can switch different listening style by EQ control. Hope it helps for all of you.
> Thanks.


Very excited for this!


----------



## actorlife (Aug 24, 2020)

This new color looks nice. I hope they come out with something new perhaps Tevi 2? with 10-12 battery aptx-HD


----------



## phaeton70

Alphasoixante said:


> I'm looking for a recommendation for TWS.
> 
> If anyone has heard the Final Audio E5000s and can recommend a TWS that gets to that sound as close as possible, I would really appreciate it. For anyone who is unfamiliar with their sound -- they have an enormous low end, lush mid-range and detailed but laid back treble. I am VERY sensitive to sibilance because of chronic jaw pain and the E5000s are the best sound for me (that I've heard). Maybe the TWS version (or something close to it) doesn't exist and I will have to compromise with one of those neckband MMCX solutions like the FiiO LC-BT2 or the ikko ARC ITB05. Anway, I would really appreciate your thoughts.
> 
> For reference: I have tried MPOW T5, Tranya T3, Enacfire E60 and Phaiser Fusion 1. My favorite has been the T5, although it doesn't have the sub bass I'm looking for.



you could try the Apollo Bold, they seem to fit nicely in your description.


----------



## TWSMan (Aug 24, 2020)

Some good deals at the moment on Amazon UK:

Panasonic RZ-S500 £119.00
https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B088C43RGZ

Technics EAH-AZ70 £189.00
https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B089BHKS6S

Tronsmart Apollo Bold £74.99 with £10 voucher
https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B08C3383B7


----------



## Aevum

I thought that they ruined the Tevi with the firmware update. 

the original firmware was more Ety sounding, and they wanted it more mainstream so the newer firmwares change the signature to something more beats sounding.


----------



## Alphasoixante

phaeton70 said:


> you could try the Apollo Bold, they seem to fit nicely in your description.



Thank you. I have heard that the controls are not the most responsive. Does your pair have problems with the touch controls?


----------



## phaeton70

Alphasoixante said:


> Thank you. I have heard that the controls are not the most responsive. Does your pair have problems with the touch controls?



not really. very responsive with aptX and AAC. not sure with SBC though.


----------



## cubenity

Hello, 
Which IEMs are the most similar sound signature-wise to Tin HiFi T2? I want to spend around $50, and they have to be available on AliExpress.


----------



## actorlife

Aevum said:


> I thought that they ruined the Tevi with the firmware update.
> 
> the original firmware was more Ety sounding, and they wanted it more mainstream so the newer firmwares change the signature to something more beats sounding.


Never updated mine. What feature did it add?


----------



## jasonb

So I think I'm beginning to prefer the Galaxy Buds Live over my WF1000XM3. I was listening to my Buds Live last night and then switched to my WF1000XM3 and it sounded "wrong". I didn't expect that to happen. Not saying the XM3 are bad or anything. Just saying that I'm starting to get a long with the Buds Live.

I'm using the Buds Live right now and I'm liking what I'm hearing.


----------



## regancipher

Alphasoixante said:


> Thank you. I have heard that the controls are not the most responsive. Does your pair have problems with the touch controls?


Touch controls are really good. The thing is, the noise cancellation is also really good so you can accidentally miss the buttons. 

Connectivity is strong usually when it connects, but can just suddenly drop out for no reason or fail to connect to the last connected device.


----------



## logiatype

Aevum said:


> I thought that they ruined the Tevi with the firmware update.
> 
> the original firmware was more Ety sounding, and they wanted it more mainstream so the newer firmwares change the signature to something more beats sounding.


You could get that original sound back by resetting it in the app (Android only).


----------



## voicemaster

jasonb said:


> So I think I'm beginning to prefer the Galaxy Buds Live over my WF1000XM3. I was listening to my Buds Live last night and then switched to my WF1000XM3 and it sounded "wrong". I didn't expect that to happen. Not saying the XM3 are bad or anything. Just saying that I'm starting to get a long with the Buds Live.
> 
> I'm using the Buds Live right now and I'm liking what I'm hearing.


Once you go bare, you can't go back...wait that's different topic.


----------



## BigZ12 (Aug 26, 2020)

actorlife said:


> Never updated mine. What feature did it add?


In bluetooth settings: Do you have [LYPERTEK] TEVI - L/R or LYPERTEK TEVI - L/R?
If it's the latter, you're already updated.
You'll then have the latest sound signature, and can use the app. (which they deleted from Apple Store, but I did install it before it was gone... maybe it's available in the US app store?)

Edit: If your packaging looks like this, it's also updated.


----------



## mikp

got the cp360 l\xl pack, and that did the trick for the mtw2. Seems to get a good seal with those, cant hear the desktop fan with anc on.
So its either these or the mandarines for the mtw2.


----------



## regancipher

webvan said:


> No actually I very rarely run in noisy environments, never actually, that's why the X12 work so well for me. When I ran on a treadmill last year I did wish I had TWEs with better isolation but since it's so rare it's a non-issue really...still I'll try to check out the Nilkin



The Nillkin fit like a glove but have been giving me periodic tinnitus since. Amazon removed my review too! Everything perfect except the god awful sound quality and stupidly positioned mic


----------



## LoryWiv

ssouthall6 said:


> The Nillkin fit like a glove but have been giving me periodic tinnitus since. Amazon removed my review too! Everything perfect except the god awful sound quality and stupidly positioned mic



I have developed mild tinnitus as well but it doesn't seem more troublesome with some IEM's or cans than others. Do you only get it from this one IEM?

Also, can Amazon remove a review just because it is critical of a product?


----------



## regancipher

LoryWiv said:


> I have developed mild tinnitus as well but it doesn't seem more troublesome with some IEM's or cans than others. Do you only get it from this one IEM?
> 
> Also, can Amazon remove a review just because it is critical of a product?



Sorry to hear that mate. I had low rumbling tinnitus for about 6 months around 2012/13...so bad I dreaded waking up. I used to dj before ear protectors were commonplace and by the time they were, it was too late, damage was done. 

I don't think you ears ever really recover but you know your limits for sure. I don't really listen to much music, other than to test earbuds, and sanity check mixdowns for my best friend's releases (he's always moaning about them, diva!) But the Nillkin gave me high freq tinnitus, which never happens. Such a shame as I love everything else about them.

I've resubmitted the review, let's see what they say


----------



## geoxile

Have there been any TWS headphones with QCC304x or QCC514x? Or BT 5.2 in any case


----------



## LoryWiv (Aug 25, 2020)

ssouthall6 said:


> Sorry to hear that mate. I had low rumbling tinnitus for about 6 months around 2012/13...so bad I dreaded waking up. I used to dj before ear protectors were commonplace and by the time they were, it was too late, damage was done.
> 
> I don't think you ears ever really recover but you know your limits for sure. I don't really listen to much music, other than to test earbuds, and sanity check mixdowns for my best friend's releases (he's always moaning about them, diva!) But the Nillkin gave me high freq tinnitus, which never happens. Such a shame as I love everything else about them.
> 
> I've resubmitted the review, let's see what they say



Thanks for the heads up on these, perhaps they are poorly vented etc...but it;'s good to know what may exacerbate tinnitus.

Yes, it's a bummer to be sure but I am already adjusting as mine is not severe. I listen at lower volumes and am reaching a point where I can focus on the enjoying the music rather than feel sorry for myself.  Its all in the mind (ears?) as they say.


----------



## Tronsmart Official

TWSMan said:


> Some good deals at the moment on Amazon UK:
> 
> Panasonic RZ-S500 £119.00
> https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B088C43RGZ
> ...


Thanks for sharing!


----------



## Tronsmart Official

geoxile said:


> Have there been any TWS headphones with QCC304x or QCC514x? Or BT 5.2 in any case


Tronsmart Apollo Bold is equipped with QCC5124.


----------



## Caipirina

TWSMan said:


> Tronsmart Apollo Bold £74.99 with £10 voucher
> https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B08C3383B7



84.99EUR with 10€ voucher now on amazon.de


----------



## DigDub

Got the buds live. Weren't as bassy as I had expected from reading the impressions and reviews posted. Airy soundstage due to it's open design.


----------



## IEManiac

*Lypertek Tevi* vs. *ASL2P*

Which one has the better, more balanced and detailed sound?


----------



## DB10

IEManiac said:


> *Lypertek Tevi* vs. *ASL2P*
> 
> Which one has the better, more balanced and detailed sound?


Useful information also for me, waiting for replies!


----------



## tdx

Reading through this massive thread to catch up, but I wanted to see, which TWS earphones are considered best regardless of budget right now?

Thanks.


----------



## hifi80sman

DigDub said:


> Got the buds live. Weren't as bassy as I had expected from reading the impressions and reviews posted. Airy soundstage due to it's open design.


I recommend you fiddle around with the fit.  Depending how they're positioned, the signature will change significantly, especially in the bass department.  I ended up returning mine, however, because the touch controls were very unreliable.


----------



## eiraku (Aug 25, 2020)

IEManiac said:


> *Lypertek Tevi* vs. *ASL2P*
> 
> Which one has the better, more balanced and detailed sound?



Personally (from my readings coz I don't actually have the Tevis) I kinda feel like the Tevis (post-update) are probably more "technical" and the L2Ps (which I do have) are more "musical" (again, from what I imagine the Tevis to sound like anyway 🤣).

What I do also feel is that the L2P is sorta the more flexible of the two due to the awesome SC app EQ and the L2Ps own expansive sound envelope (thanks to it being practically a hybrid DD/BA).

But with zero EQ tuning (or rather, on "Soundcore Signature" EQ Preset) I'd say that the L2P can be pretty midbass heavy and a tad "mainstream" sounding (I have mine on a custom EQ).

Hence, if you don't plan on tweaking the hell out of the L2P through the EQ the Tevis is probably gonna be the better buy (though you can technically tweak the Tevis too through their app or with Wavelet/Viper4A).

IMHO anyway lol. For a more authoritative comparison, I'll wait for someone who owns both to weigh in their opinions TBH.

A tad SQ unrelated, but the fact that both lack ambient/monitor mode is a bit of a bummer however (tho the L2P's Qi charging is a nice little bonus).


----------



## faithguy19

I have been enjoying the sound of the Galaxy Buds Live but I too have been having fit troubles.  I have found that it works best for me without any wingtip on whatsoever.


----------



## hifi80sman

faithguy19 said:


> I have been enjoying the sound of the Galaxy Buds Live but I too have been having fit troubles.  I have found that it works best for me without any wingtip on whatsoever.


They should have gone with a matte/slightly rubberized finish over the entire exterior, similar to the finish on the new Over-Ear Sony XM4.  Some of the issues I was having getting them into position, where the darn things were exceptionally slippery, not to mention fingerprints galore (on the case as well).  I did like the sound, but my frustrations won over and I returned them before my window closed.


----------



## jant71

hifi80sman said:


> They should have gone with a matte/slightly rubberized finish over the entire exterior, similar to the finish on the new Over-Ear Sony XM4.  Some of the issues I was having getting them into position, where the darn things were exceptionally slippery, not to mention fingerprints galore (on the case as well).  I did like the sound, but my frustrations won over and I returned them before my window closed.



Then you want the new Galaxy Buds Live Sport edition.


----------



## hifi80sman

jant71 said:


> Then you want the new Galaxy Buds Live Sport edition.


Is there a new sport version?  I can't seem to find it.


----------



## jant71

hifi80sman said:


> Is there a new sport version?  I can't seem to find it.



Yeah, I'll admit, I made them up so they are not a real thing.


----------



## voicemaster

I agree with the outer side being fingerprint magnet. Doesn't bother me at all tho.


----------



## dasadab (Aug 25, 2020)

IBasso CF01 arrived yesterday from Bloom Audio.  I have no affiliation, blah, blah—just a consumer.  I figured I’d give them a try because I love the BT freedom, but have never loved the audio quality.  I own the Senns 1, Nuarl 6 pro, and the Sony xm3s.  Also use the Apple AirPods Pro for calls.
I own the iBasso IT04s, which I haven’t been using since jumping in with the iPhone centric Audeze 3is—which are expensive, but awesome.  The Audeze’s also have a BT cable (around the neck) which works well, but the cable around the neck is not ideal for my running around daily stuff.  Also the Audezes are open back and are not ideal for walking around our noisy environment.
Anyway, the CF01 arrived last night and I plugged in my IT04s.  I was very very wowed by the clear upgrade in BT quality over all of the above—except the Audezes.  I don’t hold myself out as an audiophile, but I would say that the excellent musical qualities of the IT04s came through—wide sound stage, nice bass extension, crisp clear mids and highs—all blended nicely.  It was a “this combo sounds damn good” type of experience—not “this combo sounds good for a BT setup.”

The CF01 pairing was quick and easy.  They are also super light.  I really don’t notice them.  Of course, there is a bit more fiddling getting the unit behind the ear and the ear pieces in place, but it all just takes maybe half a minute longer than pop in IEMs.

My suspicion is that the size factor allows for a more powerful amp.  I understand that folks here often value battery endurance, but I would rather have 3-4 hours of noticeably better sound than huge endurance.

I read the review on Twister6 about the CF01s.  That is what got me thinking to try them.

Oh, forgot to mention that all listening was on my iphone via Qobuz.


----------



## assassin10000

faithguy19 said:


> I have been enjoying the sound of the Galaxy Buds Live but I too have been having fit troubles.  I have found that it works best for me without any wingtip on whatsoever.



Same. This is the solution I came up with.




assassin10000 said:


> Well, after some thought and a quick trip to the hardware store I found a solution to the Beans / Buds Live wings that is super easy and cheap.
> 
> O-rings. Used a selection of different sizes to get the fit I wanted.
> 
> ...


----------



## hifi80sman

jant71 said:


> Yeah, I'll admit, I made them up so they are not a real thing.


That's what I figured, but sometimes companies release other versions in the Europe and/or Asia (i.e. Sony).  Maybe they're cruising this forum and will release a sport version with a pure silicon shell.


----------



## jant71

hifi80sman said:


> That's what I figured, but sometimes companies release other versions in the Europe and/or Asia (i.e. Sony).  Maybe they're cruising this forum and will release a sport version with a pure silicon shell.



Can't hurt to float an idea out there. 

Speaking of sports models. Klipsch both T5 II and T5 II Sport missed the release date of 8/24. I might have been posting today showing off a pair from B&H but not here just yet.


----------



## Caipirina

jant71 said:


> Yeah, I'll admit, I made them up so they are not a real thing.


Actually ... I made them up   (higher Ipx, rubberized, sport colors ...)


----------



## hifi80sman

jant71 said:


> Can't hurt to float an idea out there.
> 
> Speaking of sports models. Klipsch both T5 II and T5 II Sport missed the release date of 8/24. I might have been posting today showing off a pair from B&H but not here just yet.


Looking forward to those.  The T5 was a disappointment, not only in terms of the unstable fit, but also the App that was promised way back from 2019.


----------



## jant71

hifi80sman said:


> Looking forward to those.  The T5 was a disappointment, not only in terms of the unstable fit, but also the App that was promised way back from 2019.



I'm on board. Seems when the fit was right they were one of the better sounding models and they promised improvement with " The second generation T5 driver utilizes an all-new diaphragm with minimal thickness to enhance clarity and improve audio quality across the entire frequency spectrum. " 




They really reworked most aspects. I see about a third smaller actually esp. factoring in all the angles. They doubled the fit kit with 6 sizes, the antenna moved to the outside, the beamform mics, the silicone ear wings...



The wireless charging, now IP67, reworked battery density with fast charge, the moisture removal might be useful. I'm liking the re-design and thought put in to the upgrade and sport model so I am on board.


----------



## hifi80sman

jant71 said:


> I'm on board. Seems when the fit was right they were one of the better sounding models and they promised improvement with " The second generation T5 driver utilizes an all-new diaphragm with minimal thickness to enhance clarity and improve audio quality across the entire frequency spectrum. "
> 
> They really reworked most aspects. I see about a third smaller actually esp. factoring in all the angles. They doubled the fit kit with 6 sizes, the antenna moved to the outside, the beamform mics, the silicone ear wings...
> 
> The wireless charging, now IP67, reworked battery density with fast charge, the moisture removal might be useful. I'm liking the re-design and thought put in to the upgrade and sport model so I am on board.


You sold me.


----------



## howdy

IEManiac said:


> *Lypertek Tevi* vs. *ASL2P*
> 
> Which one has the better, more balanced and detailed sound?


I have and own both and I prefer the sound the the Tevis over the LP2. More natural and more of my sound sig. I hadn't listened to the LP2s in awhile until yesterday and they sound really warm compared to the Tevis. 
The only thing I don't like about the Tevis is how hard it is to push the button on the earbuds, If I use the button I have to take them out and reposition them as they get pushed to far in my ears.


----------



## Caipirina

hifi80sman said:


> Looking forward to those.  The T5 was a disappointment, not only in terms of the unstable fit, but also the App that was promised way back from 2019.


Funny, I was just checking on the T5 since I saw them on amazon for 88€ , but after checking JRR and seeing that loooong nozzle and weird fit ... nope.


----------



## lolcoaster

Now that the Tronsmart Apollo Bolds are out, no one seems to be talking about the 20 Decebles ones. Are the Bolds just straight up better?


----------



## DigDub

hifi80sman said:


> I recommend you fiddle around with the fit.  Depending how they're positioned, the signature will change significantly, especially in the bass department.  I ended up returning mine, however, because the touch controls were very unreliable.


I find the sound signature becomes warmer and bassinet if I push it hard into my ear, like most open air earphones. For normal wearing, my ears conform quite easily to the shape of the beans so they sound quite consistent no matter how I put them in initially. I'm fine with the touch controls, but do find that I accidentally activate them when adjusting the buds in ear since the buds are so tiny. Overall I like them.


----------



## Mouseman

Tronsmart has a spinner on the home page to get a discount, which is good on some Amazon sites (including US). I decided to give the Bolds a try, they'll be here Monday. I also have the APPs coming Friday since they were $30 off on Amazon. I'll probably (well, maybe -- oh, who am I kidding?) send one pair back if there's not a huge difference.  I wish Tronsmart would hurry up and get the app out.


----------



## jant71 (Aug 25, 2020)

howdy said:


> The only thing I don't like about the Tevis is how hard it is to push the button on the earbuds, If I use the button I have to take them out and reposition them as they get pushed to far in my ears.





hifi80sman said:


> You sold me.



Oh yeah and as part of the Klipsch redesign they even made the button easier to push.  50% the force required than before plus the new fit and angle moved the press force so it no longer pushes the housings into the ear. They said they wanted to keep tactile and not risk accidental touches but had to improve the button experience. Like I said, a long list of things that made sense and showed thought and sold me on them.


----------



## voicemaster

Does any of you know how to use galaxy wearable apps on PC? I tried using bluestack and nox but it doesn't work for some reason.


----------



## howdy

jant71 said:


> Oh yeah and as part of the Klipsch redesign they even made the button easier to push.  50% the force required than before plus the new fit and angle moved the press force so it no longer pushes the housings into the ear. They said they wanted to keep tactile and not risk accidental touches but had to improve the button experience. Like I said, a long list of things that made sense and showed thought and sold me on them.


I have the Power Beats Pro TW and the button on them is really easy to push, so easy that it does not put any pressure on the ear and there is a volume rocker on top. They did a great job with the design and very comfortable for all day use.


----------



## voicemaster

DigDub said:


> I find the sound signature becomes warmer and bassinet if I push it hard into my ear, like most open air earphones. For normal wearing, my ears conform quite easily to the shape of the beans so they sound quite consistent no matter how I put them in initially. I'm fine with the touch controls, but do find that I accidentally activate them when adjusting the buds in ear since the buds are so tiny. Overall I like them.


I just disabled the touch control all together because it is too responsive lol.


----------



## jant71

howdy said:


> I have the Power Beats Pro TW and the button on them is really easy to push, so easy that it does not put any pressure on the ear and there is a volume rocker on top. They did a great job with the design and very comfortable for all day use.



Yep, need to push easy enough and on ear cartilage parts instead of in the ears and messing with the seal.

Though the capacitive touch on my JVC is fine since the Aero wind design has an edge to grip and a good size face where I can adjust and touch and take them off and put them in and whatever w/o any accidental presses. No problem with the touch on them and almost no wind noise till I turn the mics on. Problem is they make wind noise more evident then before with other earphones.


----------



## Tronsmart Official

Mouseman said:


> Tronsmart has a spinner on the home page to get a discount, which is good on some Amazon sites (including US). I decided to give the Bolds a try, they'll be here Monday. I also have the APPs coming Friday since they were $30 off on Amazon. I'll probably (well, maybe -- oh, who am I kidding?) send one pair back if there's not a huge difference.  I wish Tronsmart would hurry up and get the app out.


Hi, Mouseman,
APP is coming in the end of Sep. Maybe earlier! Let's wait for its coming!


----------



## lolcoaster

Any discounts for non-Amazon sites?


----------



## Caipirina

lolcoaster said:


> Now that the Tronsmart Apollo Bolds are out, no one seems to be talking about the 20 Decebles ones. Are the Bolds just straight up better?


I have the Tozo, which are pretty much the same. And I am still considering returning them. They do have a bit of a better / sleeker fit for me. But overall I think they don’t bring much new / better to the table given the other ANC buds I have. And yes, the Apollos are a major player there.


----------



## Tronsmart Official

lolcoaster said:


> Any discounts for non-Amazon sites?


AliExpress is doing promotion: https://bit.ly/2ZAXOoz


----------



## logiatype

https://nuarl.com/n10pro/
https://www.aptx.com/products/nuarl-n10-pro-anc-truly-wireless-stereo-earbuds

Seems very close. Excited to finally try Nuarl TWS


----------



## sponsor

Looks like I got a dud of a case in Tronsmart Apollo. Even after the "foam" hack inside the case, my fully charged case is blinking red lights after a couple of days, and 5-6hrs of usage.
I've sent an email to @Tronsmart Official about this, let's wait for the response. But I wanted to know, is it common for TWS to have such variations in case/earbuds batteries out of the factory? Or is it @Tronsmart Official QC?


----------



## Guardian91

I


sponsor said:


> Looks like I got a dud of a case in Tronsmart Apollo. Even after the "foam" hack inside the case, my fully charged case is blinking red lights after a couple of days, and 5-6hrs of usage.
> I've sent an email to @Tronsmart Official about this, let's wait for the response. But I wanted to know, is it common for TWS to have such variations in case/earbuds batteries out of the factory? Or is it @Tronsmart Official QC?


I have the same problem and wondered if it is normal that i must charge the case,when i use the buds every day 3-4 hours....


----------



## sponsor

Guardian91 said:


> I
> 
> I have the same problem and wondered if it is normal that i must charge the case,when i use the buds every day 3-4 hours....



Definitely not normal, if 20hrs are to be expected from the case, then nothing less than 18hrs should be acceptable in the daily use. 
I am still waiting for the reply from @Tronsmart Official


----------



## Guardian91

sponsor said:


> Definitely not normal, if 20hrs are to be expected from the case, then nothing less than 18hrs should be acceptable in the daily use.
> I am still waiting for the reply from @Tronsmart Official


Yes,this is a big issue and i hope that not all units are that faulty,so that they can offer us a replacement. I have also contacted them and hope that they will help.


----------



## gibletzor

voicemaster said:


> Does any of you know how to use galaxy wearable apps on PC? I tried using bluestack and nox but it doesn't work for some reason.


I think since those are technically Android emulators, they won't connect directly to the buds and I doubt Windows is passing external hardware information to the emulator.  The emulator will pass sound output to Windows, but not the other way around.


----------



## webvan

Guardian91 said:


> Yes,this is a big issue and i hope that not all units are that faulty,so that they can offer us a replacement. I have also contacted them and hope that they will help.



I hadn't paid specific attention to that before sending it back as there was a host of other problems with the Apollo Bold (see previous posts for details) but I do remember thinking that the case seemed to require more charging than my other TWEs for which it's never been an issue TBH.

Went out running with my trusty Lezii X12 today and for the second time in a couple of weeks found the left earbud to be dead...and thought it was time to pull out my X12 backup pair after 18 months of putting them through hundreds of sweaty runs...but it has come back to life  One tough little device !


----------



## phaeton70

quick review of the Panasonic RZ-S500WE after some days of intensive use  




I'm impressed with the sound quality of these earbuds. really nice timbre, very linear but not missing anything (maybe I would like a little bit more airy highs, but hopefully those will comeout after some more burnin), very detailed and fast. scene is, well, would say normal, not exceptional but neither too small.
ANC is very good, superior to any earbuds I have tried, but it has a strange behaviour: when set to max level it introduces a sort of "hiss", if set to mid level it is perfect.
the only issue I have with these Pana is the ear fit... it is REALLY very difficult for me to find a good fit, and I always have the impression the earbuds are falling out... it's just an impression, actually they are quite stable, but it's annoying to the point that I have decided to no more use them outside.
apart from the correct fit issue, I would reccommed these Pana to everyone, they are very well worth the price.


----------



## newtophones07

phaeton70 said:


> quick review of the Panasonic RZ-S500WE after some days of intensive use
> 
> I'm impressed with the sound quality of these earbuds. really nice timbre, very linear but not missing anything (maybe I would like a little bit more airy highs, but hopefully those will comeout after some more burnin), very detailed and fast. scene is, well, would say normal, not exceptional but neither too small.
> ANC is very good, superior to any earbuds I have tried, but it has a strange behaviour: when set to max level it introduces a sort of "hiss", if set to mid level it is perfect.
> ...



They have the s300 which has a smaller driver, and a much smaller housing diameter.  Its a much easier fit, and more comfortable.  You lose some low end density though.


----------



## Caipirina

newtophones07 said:


> They have the s300 which has a smaller driver, and a much smaller housing diameter.  Its a much easier fit, and more comfortable.  You lose some low end density though.


and the ANC i I am not mistaken ...


----------



## Caipirina

voicemaster said:


> I just disabled the touch control all together because it is too responsive lol.


did the same ... it's just so nice to be able to touch / adjust the fit as much as I like without triggering anything ...


----------



## geoxile

Anyone tried the Aviot TE-D01gv? It has the QCC3040 chipset. Not sure if it's BT5.2 enabled since there are no BT5.2 transmitters yet, although SD865+ supports it on paper.
https://www.amazon.co.jp/AVIOT-TE-D01gv-Bluetooth-ワイヤレスイヤホン-Android/dp/B08BNK9M8N#customerReviews


----------



## regancipher (Aug 26, 2020)

The case on the Apollo is a bit of a mystery to me too. It seems the headroom they've left above the bud is too much for the buds to sit perfectly and too little to add foam ear tips. What I think is happening, is it's draining charge without the buds properly connecting. I found the other day my right bud had 60% charge, my left 100%. Seems they've shot themselves in the foot a little by trying to solve a problem many of us have, which is the issues with silicone tips and charging cases not being able to coexist.

Very rare I need to use that much charge without having access to power but I'll run some tests and see what I am getting.

Someone asked a few pages ago where I got mine - Amazon, a few days after release, serial is 200617

Got tracking on my Edifier TWSNB2 today. Still nothing on the FIIL T1XS.


----------



## AudioNoob (Aug 26, 2020)

ssouthall6 said:


> The case on the Apollo is a bit of a mystery to me too. It seems the headroom they've left above the bud is too much for the buds to sit perfectly and too little to add foam ear tips. What I think is happening, is it's draining charge without the buds properly connecting. I found the other day my right bud had 60% charge, my left 100%. Seems they've shot themselves in the foot a little by trying to solve a problem many of us have, which is the issues with silicone tips and charging cases not being able to coexist.
> 
> Very rare I need to use that much charge without having access to power but I'll run some tests and see what I am getting.
> 
> ...


I have the same issue with the apollo. If press in strongly before leaving them on the table it seems to be fine. I would say that it was happening more in the beginning where the right bud wasn't charging but I usually have it in the home moving from room to room, haven't tried tossing it in a bag yet.


----------



## Tronsmart Official

Dear all Tronsmart Apollo Bold users,
If you have any questions or problems about the product, please contact us. Tronsmart will always be here to solve all your problems. 
BTW, please don't forget to join our review program! https://www.head-fi.org/threads/【award-review】tronsmart-apollo-bold-review-program.940374/


----------



## h2oh

feeling still to soon, fully wireless strictly limit the size for the source and power


----------



## sofastreamer (Aug 27, 2020)

hi guys, I am very happy with my xm3 but still wanting a little more 

My favorite open cans are my Oppo pm2s, while my favorite closed cans are my beyer T5p MarkII. my favorite iems over all are my 64Audio U8.

After owning several first gen TWS like B&O E8, Jabra Elite 65t, Sony xf1000 and so on, i was glad when i first listened to the sonys. I Use Tidal on my phone so i can use 360 reality audio, which does a great job opening up the soundstage. I am a soundstage fanatic!

So I wonder if you guys know, if any of the recent drops does beat the xm3s in regards of soundstage? It should be a closed design though. Passive nc would be fine as i do not really need anc. Maybe even the apple pros or the new version of galaxy buds?
i like more of a hint of warmth and a relaxed sound. Soundstage should be in front of me and not around my head (which the sonys do pretty well). I absolutely hate upper mids and midbuss bumps but i love my subbass and a lot of details and separation without having hot treble.
my budget is up to 500 EUR. any suggestions?


----------



## BigZ12




----------



## ace5000 (Aug 27, 2020)

I was not sure where to post this but good news for new Samsung Note 20 and ultra owners:

If you call and hit the option for Samsung technical support (855-726-8721), not customer service, upon request they will send you out an AKG IEM with the integrated C plug at no charge. Also, I asked about the C to std. 3.5mm adapter, and they are sending one out as well. Should arive in 1-2 weeks. I hope this helps and will post back when / if they arrive.


----------



## logiatype

BigZ12 said:


> IMG


Looks like a worse MTW 2
https://www.amazon.com/Sennheiser-400BT-True-Wireless-Black/dp/B08DCLRYWB/ref=sr_1_9?dchild=1&keywords=headphones&qid=1598542264&refinements=p_n_date:1249034011&s=aht&sr=1-9


----------



## eiraku

logiatype said:


> Looks like a worse MTW 2
> https://www.amazon.com/Sennheiser-400BT-True-Wireless-Black/dp/B08DCLRYWB/ref=sr_1_9?dchild=1&keywords=headphones&qid=1598542264&refinements=p_n_date:1249034011&s=aht&sr=1-9


 
CX-series, it's gotta be.

On the flipside, I'm still angry with Senn for never having introduced a proper Bluetooth version of the PX100s (I still have a few of these workhorses). Like, just put a hump on the top for battery and electronics and you'd be done with it methinks.


----------



## DjBobby

BigZ12 said:


>


Strange....not a word about this model on Senn's official website.


----------



## Caipirina

ssouthall6 said:


> Got tracking on my Edifier TWSNB2 today.


Ordered from where?


----------



## C_Lindbergh

logiatype said:


> Looks like a worse MTW 2
> https://www.amazon.com/Sennheiser-400BT-True-Wireless-Black/dp/B08DCLRYWB/ref=sr_1_9?dchild=1&keywords=headphones&qid=1598542264&refinements=p_n_date:1249034011&s=aht&sr=1-9





CX 400BT True Wireless MOMENTUM True Wireless 2


Color variantsBlack & WhiteBlack & WhiteBattery life7h + 13h (earbud + charging case)7h + 21h (earbud + charging case)Customizable controls✓✓Call function✓✓Active Noise Cancellation✓Voice assistant access✓✓Internal EQ / Custom presets✓✓Transparent hearing✓Smart pause✓Splash Resistant (IPX4)✓

Yepp... No IP rating, No Ambient Mode, no ANC, worse battery and prob not the same driver?


----------



## regancipher

Caipirina said:


> Ordered from where?



Edifier store Aliexpress, so no prime try before you by - they'd better be good!


----------



## typhoon838

Hi friends

Checking back here after a little while of not keeping up and was wondering what the interesting new players in the market are. 

With regards to what I'm interested in, the Anbes 359 were absolutely incredible in my opinion, everything I ever wanted. Loved them right up until they stopped working, and couldn't get another because they dropped off the face of the earth. Tried the SSK, they didn't sound as good to my ears. I eventually settled on the Tranya T3, which have honestly been fantastic. I love the bass response, they definitely have the type of frequency graph that I like. 

Anything new that you guys think I'd be interested in? Perhaps something with a sound passthrough mode, or ANC, or apt-x, or some other feature that I don't have on my T3s? I like the way they sound but honestly wouldn't mind more sub-bass (I know, I'm crazy), as long as it still sounds pretty good overall like the T3s do. Love me some great value Chi-Fi. But I'd be willing to try out something from a more reputable western brand as well. I did try the galaxy buds because the passthrough intrigued me buuuuut I couldn't deal with how tinny they sounded to my ears.


----------



## FYLegend (Aug 27, 2020)

Just got my TaoTronics SoundLiberty 94, my first ANC TWS.






First impressions
- Tuning is rather dark but spacious, still has some metallic tone to the treble
- ANC is decent but not particularly powerful. It leaves you with the sense of drowning out background noise due to the slight hiss, but i
- The left bud has some *high-pitched interference/EMI hiss* when ANC is turned off, both in ambient mode and ANC off.. The ambient mode might still work for me playing the piano with music, but the interference artifact makes it nearly unusuable for serious listening with ANC off or ambient on. I'm wondering if this is a defect or not because everything is fine when ANC is turned on. Curious if anyone has had this experience with TOZO or 20Decebel.
- Turning on ANC also causes the music to play.
- Ambient mode pauses the music. It's not as bad as I thought, but I still prefer ambient sound not pausing music (I read the new NUARL does this too). Ambient quality is decent, clear but does miss out some lower frequencies.
- Still sounds good with Windows 10, maybe a bit warmer. Either it's using AAC or the SBC implementation is very good. However, the bass seems to thump oddly above 90%, but not on my phone so it might be using SBC instead of AAC.
- No multipoint or easy disconnect. I'm not surprised.
- They tried to cram all controls, volume/ambient/ANC but it just feels like a mess. Single tap left/right to decrease/increase volume. The worst is *double-tap right bud to play/pause* - it's prone to trigger *increase volume* instead (though my COVID-hair probably has a role as it seems consistent if I dig under my hair). I just wish play-pause was on the left side because I'd have to let go of the computer mouse.


----------



## erockg

I know that this is wishful thinking, but Earin's site is down for maintenance.  Really hope they launch an M-3 version.  https://earin.com


----------



## Caipirina

ssouthall6 said:


> Edifier store Aliexpress, so no prime try before you by - they'd better be good!


Too bad (or maybe good) that I JUST discovered that Edifier AE store could send me this from Spain and it would arrive quite quickly, but if it comes a bit late, I might have left the country ... 
Then again, I started watching JDL YT thing and ... I think I am really done with stem based .. I really hope they are awesome and all, but one reason why I returned the Aukey ANC was that they created microphonic sounds by scruffing along the beard under my ears ... so, no more stems for me


----------



## Luke Skywalker

DB10 said:


> Hi, thanks yes, I was talking about them XM3s, the deadline to send them back to Amazon is 1st September, I love the sound, but I cannot keep them in my ears, they fall out constantly, is annoying, so that I was looking for the best possible alternative with good sound and, if possible "decent" fit. There are some Galaxy Buds with a good price in Amazon, and also a Tevis and a pair of Jabra 75t and the Melomania 1, but I would prefer something with ANC, if possible, and the Panasonic could be a good solution.
> 
> Thanks again!


Hey, yesterday i tried my favorite tips (Acoustune AET08) with the XM3's and my Jabra 65's and I was amazed at the difference, compared with the Spinfits and some foam ones I had.  Makes me wonder why I didn't try it before.  Comfortable and it feels like they're glued in my ears they're so stable


----------



## regancipher

Caipirina said:


> Too bad (or maybe good) that I JUST discovered that Edifier AE store could send me this from Spain and it would arrive quite quickly, but if it comes a bit late, I might have left the country ...
> Then again, I started watching JDL YT thing and ... I think I am really done with stem based .. I really hope they are awesome and all, but one reason why I returned the Aukey ANC was that they created microphonic sounds by scruffing along the beard under my ears ... so, no more stems for me



They better be an improvement on the Aukey. They were so disappointing.


----------



## regancipher

A few more reviews from me:
https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/1more-onemore-stylish-e1029bt.24584/reviews
https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/tronsmart-onyx-free.24587/reviews


----------



## MadMike

phaeton70 said:


> quick review of the Panasonic RZ-S500WE after some days of intensive use
> 
> I'm impressed with the sound quality of these earbuds. really nice timbre, very linear but not missing anything (maybe I would like a little bit more airy highs, but hopefully those will comeout after some more burnin), very detailed and fast. scene is, well, would say normal, not exceptional but neither too small.
> ANC is very good, superior to any earbuds I have tried, but it has a strange behaviour: when set to max level it introduces a sort of "hiss", if set to mid level it is perfect.
> ...


Have you tried 3rd party tips? From almost day 1 I have used the AZLA Xelastec tips (M)- zero sensation that they are going to fall out!


----------



## BigZ12

erockg said:


> I know that this is wishful thinking, but Earin's site is down for maintenance.  Really hope they launch an M-3 version.  https://earin.com


Now it says: 
"The original true wireless
Launching soon."
So something is coming


----------



## ngd3

Good call everyone who recommended the Galaxy beans. They've been great for work calls so far. Some static and connection issues bur overall very solid. I was even able to get music to sound great with Wavelet


----------



## phaeton70

MadMike said:


> Have you tried 3rd party tips? From almost day 1 I have used the AZLA Xelastec tips (M)- zero sensation that they are going to fall out!



you read my mind!!! I was going to ask what could be a good set of tips to be used with these Pana  
what about the dual flange tips? are those any better?


----------



## MadMike

phaeton70 said:


> you read my mind!!! I was going to ask what could be a good set of tips to be used with these Pana
> what about the dual flange tips? are those any better?


Not sure- I haven’t tried any dual flange tips. The Panny’s stick out far enough already- dual flange tips will likely make them stick out even more.


----------



## Luke Skywalker

logiatype said:


> https://nuarl.com/n10pro/
> https://www.aptx.com/products/nuarl-n10-pro-anc-truly-wireless-stereo-earbuds
> 
> Seems very close. Excited to finally try Nuarl TWS


Wow I can't wait.  the N6 Pro's are my favorite TWS I own.  Can't imagine how great they'd be with ANC, even if there aren't any other improvements which I'm sure there will be.  Thanks for the links


----------



## Inear

Target accidentally reveled? Bose500 or 700 ?


https://old.reddit.com/r/bose/comments/igi78m/hmm_what_are_this_target/


----------



## DigDub

BigZ12 said:


>


These are not released yet? I saw a person wearing them, must have been a tester for Sennheiser.


----------



## howdy

erockg said:


> I know that this is wishful thinking, but Earin's site is down for maintenance.  Really hope they launch an M-3 version.  https://earin.com


Hopefully!!! I would definitely buy a pair. 

I actually got almost 3 and half hours out of mine this week. My work does not allow you to wear earbuds but being these are small and we have to wear masks you cant even tell i have them in.


----------



## jant71 (Aug 27, 2020)

DigDub said:


> These are not released yet? I saw a person wearing them, must have been a tester for Sennheiser.



Must be  getting pretty close....





An uncompromising sound experience

Backed by superior dynamic driver technology, Sennheiser's new headphones offer an uncompromising
listening experience for anyone with a passion for sound. Rewriting the sound rules of wireless
headphones, the CX 400BT makes use an effortless and private experience with customizable touch
controls and a customizable sound character.

Ambient noise reduction feature

The customizable interfaces of the CX 400BT, the pioneer of next-generation headsets, help provide
access to voice response systems such as Google Assistant and Siri. The product, which is compatible
with both Apple and Android mobile devices, also has the feature of reducing the sound in the
environment.


Ergonomic and comfortable use

Capable of charging on the go, CX 400BT is suitable for use safely in your ear with its ergonomic and
comfortable structure. In addition to the 7-hour battery life in the earbuds, Sennheiser's new product
CX 400BT, which offers perfection and comfort for those who want to experience the perfect sound
with an additional 20 hours and a total of 27 hours thanks to the charging box, is also energy-saving with its
automatic power-off feature.


----------



## Tronsmart Official

ssouthall6 said:


> A few more reviews from me:
> https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/1more-onemore-stylish-e1029bt.24584/reviews
> https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/tronsmart-onyx-free.24587/reviews


Hi, ssouthall6,
Thanks for sharing!


----------



## iDesign

It seems Axel Grell has quietly been working with Urbanista on several products including the Stockholm and London wireless earbuds. 
https://www.forbes.com/sites/marksp...olm-earbuds-get-a-great-upgrade/#38779ae8f731


----------



## gibletzor

ngd3 said:


> Good call everyone who recommended the Galaxy beans. They've been great for work calls so far. Some static and connection issues bur overall very solid. I was even able to get music to sound great with Wavelet


Out of curiosity, what settings are you using with them in Wavelet?


----------



## stephenlee2801

jant71 said:


> Must be  getting pretty close....
> 
> 
> An uncompromising sound experience
> ...


Would be interested to seeing how these sounds compared to the MTW. It'll most likely be reduced sound quality and feature set but would be pretty cool if they retained most of made the MTW good while reducing features to keep the cost down.


----------



## ngd3

gibletzor said:


> Out of curiosity, what settings are you using with them in Wavelet?


ALL OF THEM 

Bass tuner subbass lift, then just messed with the reverb and virtualize. Ill mess with it more and post something once I settle on what sounds best to me


----------



## DB10

Luke Skywalker said:


> Hey, yesterday I tried my favorite tips (Acoustune AET08) with the XM3's and my Jabra 65's and I was amazed at the difference, compared with the Spinfits and some foam ones I had.  Makes me wonder why I didn't try it before.  Comfortable and it feels like they're glued in my ears they're so stable


Hi!! thanks for your reply @Luke Skywalker, I have already sent back my XM3's to Amazon, they were completely uncomfortable for me, my ears are quite small...
Now I have ordered a pair of GBuds +, I wish they are fine for me...I will post my impressions. Moreover, here in Spain the Acustune and the Adla tips are not available, especially the last ones (at least, in Spain).

I have read so many good impressions of both of them...


----------



## DB10

ngd3 said:


> Good call everyone who recommended the Galaxy beans. They've been great for work calls so far. Some static and connection issues bur overall very solid. I was even able to get music to sound great with Wavelet


I have ordered a pair of Gbuds +, looking forward to receiving them...
By the way, the same issue with Wavelet when I used it with the Sony's XM3 and the CA Melomania, if I use AutoEq I heard a Hiss in the background.


----------



## chinmie

now this is an interesting new contender. a hybrid with more than 5 hours of battery life, and using a knowles BA driver (i just hope they tune it right). 

https://www.h1.soundpeatsaudio.com/


----------



## Robius

chinmie said:


> now this is an interesting new contender. a hybrid with more than 5 hours of battery life, and using a knowles BA driver (i just hope they tune it right).
> 
> https://www.h1.soundpeatsaudio.com/



Looks good, chipset is bluetooth 5.2 compatible too.


----------



## DynamicEars

chinmie said:


> now this is an interesting new contender. a hybrid with more than 5 hours of battery life, and using a knowles BA driver (i just hope they tune it right).
> 
> https://www.h1.soundpeatsaudio.com/



wow! I'm watching!


----------



## regancipher

Two more reviews from me, one retrospective:

Boltune BT-BH024
Aukey EP-N5


----------



## bedlamite

The new Panasonics are already on sale at Amazon and I'm mighty tempted to pick them up, even though I recently purchased the AKGs.

This thread, man...you're all a bunch of enablers.


----------



## jant71 (Aug 28, 2020)

Robius said:


> Looks good, chipset is bluetooth 5.2 compatible too.



AptX adaptive which should be for a hybrid so they didn't just do aptX like so many. Buuut, while looking good but seems Soundpeats doesn't do transparency/talk through. No IPX rating either. Comes down to the price and how good they sound if one wants to forgo those things.

Edit: Then more bad news as I got the email when you sign up for the 41% off H1 and it's a Kickstarter campaign.


----------



## C_Lindbergh

chinmie said:


> now this is an interesting new contender. a hybrid with more than 5 hours of battery life, and using a knowles BA driver (i just hope they tune it right).
> 
> https://www.h1.soundpeatsaudio.com/



If they only had a ambient mode... :/


----------



## BigZ12

erockg said:


> I know that this is wishful thinking, but Earin's site is down for maintenance.  Really hope they launch an M-3 version.  https://earin.com


Today it says: Something is going on! Sign up for the newsletter to be the first to know.

Really curious for what they are releasing!


----------



## Caipirina

Because weekend ... and topical.

And it’s all of them ... not only Apple ...


----------



## voicemaster

Caipirina said:


> Because weekend ... and topical.
> 
> And it’s all of them ... not only Apple ...


Samsung galaxy buds says otherwise.


----------



## erockg

BigZ12 said:


> Today it says: Something is going on! Sign up for the newsletter to be the first to know.
> 
> Really curious for what they are releasing!


It must be the next gen.  Fingers crossed!  Earin has always been one of my top favorites.


----------



## TWSMan

Been looking through this thread and what an amazing bunch of people here!  I decided to try out the TaoTronics SoundLiberty 94 as it was slightly cheaper than the Tozo NC9 from Amazon UK and Scarbir/Bart gave a glowing review of it.

Initial impressions was the sound was more focused on the bass than the mids but hoping to burn it in and see if it gets better. 
The ANC was pretty weak at first because I couldn't get a decent seal but I swapped around all the spare tips I owned and in the end, I put one of the spare tips that came with the Bomaker Sifi II and got to say it's pretty good.  I used these videos to simulate plane cabin noise as well as coffee shop noise and it muted those pretty well:




Ambient noise was also clear and I could have a conversation without any problems.

I did notice that there is a pulsing blue light that flashes slowly while playing music which can't be turned off if that's an issue for some people.

I also bought the Panasonic RZ-S500 as it's currently available for £120 and some of you have said the ANC is one of the best, comparable with the Sony and APP - I have to say I am impressed with this one.  

Quite a pleasing sound, not too bassy, mids and highs are pretty clear and both the ANC and Ambient mode are stronger that the TaoTronics but these are over twice the price.

The seal was very good with the provided tips but they do stick out more than the TaoTronics/Tranya T10/Bomaker Sifi II so I played around with the tips and found the ones that I took off the SoundLiberty 94 previously fitted like a glove and don't stick out of my ears as much - these tips are slimmer/lower profile than the ones that came with the Pana and I've put a picture for comparision with the original tips:





I updated the firmware on the Pana through the app which gave the option to turn off the LED lights during use.

Will do some more testing and see if they get better.


----------



## Luke Skywalker (Aug 28, 2020)

DB10 said:


> Hi!! thanks for your reply @Luke Skywalker, I have already sent back my XM3's to Amazon, they were completely uncomfortable for me, my ears are quite small...
> Now I have ordered a pair of GBuds +, I wish they are fine for me...I will post my impressions. Moreover, here in Spain the Acustune and the Adla tips are not available, especially the last ones (at least, in Spain).
> 
> I have read so many good impressions of both of them...


I think that was a good move... I've never really been happy with the XM3's.  The Nuarl N6 Pro blows them out of the water for sound quality no matter what EQ settings I use.  I'm so excited about the N10 w/ ANC

Hope no one minds me sharing a link to the site where I bought the Acoustune tips.  They really are amazing: https://www.mtmtaudio.com/


----------



## georgelai57

The FIIL T1XS is so tempting for USD54 on AliExpress right now but with two T1X (and a few others), do I really need it? Better not ask @Caipirina et al.


----------



## ryanjsoo

Hey guys, just reviewed the Google Pixel Buds on Everyday Listening. These are quite an unassuming TWS earphone and honestly, I was not expecting much from the company in terms of features or sound quality. However, day to day they really are a pleasure to use. I initially was not going to recommend them despite this due to frequent cutout issues, but the company has basically rectified this with the latest 550 firmware update for me. 

The sound quality is easy to enjoy as well, especially the midrange. Not many TWS earphones that I've tried have sounded especially natural or balanced to me with very few exceptions such as the Lypertek TEVI and Galaxy Buds. The Pixel Buds join that list with a pleasantly linear tuning across the board, now with a bass boost that brings up the low-end to match the midrange. The spatial vent offers minimal wearing pressure and also seems to provide a wider soundstage. The design is sleek enough to sleep on and they have a very stable fit. I find the smart features handy, especially owning a Pixel phone due to the assistant integration.

I'd be curious to know whether others have tried or are running the Pixel Buds as I think they offer a pleasant sound and as always, other recommendations are very welcome!


----------



## voicemaster

georgelai57 said:


> The FIIL T1XS is so tempting for USD54 on AliExpress right now but with two T1X (and a few others), do I really need it? Better not ask @Caipirina et al.


The question is not do you really need it, but why not?


----------



## DB10

Luke Skywalker said:


> I think that was a good move... I've never really been happy with the XM3's.  The Nuarl N6 Pro blows them out of the water for sound quality no matter what EQ settings I use.  I'm so excited about the N10 w/ ANC
> 
> Hope no one minds me sharing a link to the site where I bought the Acoustune tips.  They really are amazing: https://www.mtmtaudio.com/


Hi @Luke Skywalker !!

thanks for your reply, I am looking forward to receiving them, I will post my impressions (delivery date is estimated next Wednesday). I have tried to buy the Nuarl N6 Pro but in Spain is impossible, there is only one amazon dealer with a very low reputation (the same in ebay) and the price was quite high.

The new N10 seems to be amazing, I am thinking contact directly Nuarl when they have launched them to ask them if they could gently send me to Spain...any other suggestions?. I wish they are ready as soon as possible, it is estimated in September but without a specif date!


----------



## Francesco Montanari

georgelai57 said:


> The FIIL T1XS is so tempting for USD54 on AliExpress right now but with two T1X (and a few others), do I really need it? Better not ask @Caipirina et al.


You have to.


----------



## Bobbetybob

georgelai57 said:


> The FIIL T1XS is so tempting for USD54 on AliExpress right now but with two T1X (and a few others), do I really need it? Better not ask @Caipirina et al.


Which shop on Ali has them at that price?


----------



## voicemaster

I am kinda avoiding shopping from overseas right now, not because of covid-19 but it just take a damn long time for the item to arrive here in the USA. Ordered Tronsmart Onyx Ace from Ali on 4/28 and I received it on 7/22. Almost a freaking 3 months lol.


----------



## jasonb

So with the Buds Live I am now trying the "normal" EQ setting with some EQ from the Wavelet app. Something about the "clear" setting just didn't sound right with a lot of my music. So far this seems more natural but makes them less bassy and brighter.


----------



## georgelai57

Bobbetybob said:


> Which shop on Ali has them at that price?


There’s at least 2 - MI YouPin Store and Shop1263750 Store - but if you search for the product there’s a few. These 2 just happen to be on TOP.


----------



## VZWDJ

I have a few pairs for sale like new...Pixel Buds 2nd Gen, Tronsmart Apollos , New Mifo 07 Bass, and Mobvoi TicKasa TWS Headphones...PM me if interested in any...Thanks


----------



## chinmie

voicemaster said:


> I am kinda avoiding shopping from overseas right now, not because of covid-19 but it just take a damn long time for the item to arrive here in the USA. Ordered Tronsmart Onyx Ace from Ali on 4/28 and I received it on 7/22. Almost a freaking 3 months lol.



hpw do you rate the Onyx Ace? is it a worthwhile buy?


----------



## voicemaster

chinmie said:


> hpw do you rate the Onyx Ace? is it a worthwhile buy?


It is good for calling as my initial purpose was for my wife (she can only use airpods style iem), but I bought another set for myself. The sound quality is not great, the bass is wonky and more of a mid bass centric, the mid is overly thick and treble is too much rolled off. It also use master and slave connection type so you can't use them individually for calling. Not worth it imho. If they just stick to the Spunky Beats sound tuning and maybe tweak it a little bit.


----------



## dwells

Well, after a month of trying to make them work, I’m abandoning the Aukey EP-N5 which I liked at first. After a half hour or so of wearing them at a time, they just hurt my ears too much. I was hoping I just had them in bad the first time or two it happened, but after some city walks and flights and what have you, they just weren’t comfortable.

The search continues for ~$60 buds I’ll like. I’ll have to see if the case for the new Fiil buds is slimmer this time around, because the chunky case was the only reason I didn’t keep my T1X last time around.


----------



## jwong

voicemaster said:


> It is good for calling as my initial purpose was for my wife (she can only use airpods style iem), but I bought another set for myself. The sound quality is not great, the bass is wonky and more of a mid bass centric, the mid is overly thick and treble is too much rolled off. It also use master and slave connection type so you can't use them individually for calling. Not worth it imho. If they just stick to the Spunky Beats sound tuning and maybe tweak it a little bit.



I'd second this. I used them for listening to audiobooks because they're good for that and calls, and so that I can still hear my family when they talk to me. But for music they don't measure up. Plus my right earphone stopped wanting to sync up after only a few months.


----------



## AudioNoob

voicemaster said:


> It is good for calling as my initial purpose was for my wife (she can only use airpods style iem), but I bought another set for myself. The sound quality is not great, the bass is wonky and more of a mid bass centric, the mid is overly thick and treble is too much rolled off. It also use master and slave connection type so you can't use them individually for calling. Not worth it imho. If they just stick to the Spunky Beats sound tuning and maybe tweak it a little bit.


The mics are also horrible on the ipad, haven't tested on the phone, nobody was able to hear me on zoom


----------



## FYLegend

TWSMan said:


> Been looking through this thread and what an amazing bunch of people here!  I decided to try out the TaoTronics SoundLiberty 94 as it was slightly cheaper than the Tozo NC9 from Amazon UK and Scarbir/Bart gave a glowing review of it.
> 
> Initial impressions was the sound was more focused on the bass than the mids but hoping to burn it in and see if it gets better.
> The ANC was pretty weak at first because I couldn't get a decent seal but I swapped around all the spare tips I owned and in the end, I put one of the spare tips that came with the Bomaker Sifi II and got to say it's pretty good.  I used these videos to simulate plane cabin noise as well as coffee shop noise and it muted those pretty well:
> ...



I just got these from Amazon.ca this week as well. Are you not getting any left bud EMI static when ANC is turned off/ambient mode on? It's rather noticeable for me (even on louder tracks) yet everything is fine when ANC is turned on. I also noticed my case battery drain abruptly today and the buds not powering off on some occasions, so I might send it back. It seems like once the case battery is depleted, the buds will not power off when placed in the case. This is not uncommon but some TWS like the Galaxy Buds+ still power off properly, presumably because powering on/off does not rely on the case battery.

I agree the ANC takes time to get used to. It does very well with low frequencies during my commute but I do think their floor noise has an effect on you thinking the ANC is more or less effective.

My biggest gripe are the controls. Hate the double-tap to play and single-tap for volume implementation. Also find it a tad annoying that the ANC/ambient mode plays/pauses the music respectively.

In terms of connectivity I haven't been that impressed. While they are mostly good, they seem sensitive to "death grip" whenever my hand is near my phone or laptop's Bluetooth modem. A bit better than last year's Realtek chipsets but still worse than QCC3020 devices as well as whatever is used in Galaxy Buds+ and Jabees Firefly Pro.


----------



## jrice1996 (Aug 30, 2020)

I am still looking for some wireless buds for running. I am a bass head, that primarily listens to rap. A set of earbuds with very powerful bass is extremely important to me, as my current wired pair has a booming bass profile that I really like and am used to. Through some research and recommendations from @Caipirina, I have narrowed my search down to three options: the Sabbat X12 ultra, the Nillikin Go, and the dyplay bqc35. For those that own those models, how do they perform when running, and how much bass do they have? The X12 ultra seems to be the best pair for running - but I have concerns over the amount of bass they contain. The X12 ultra apparently has increased bass levels, but how much?


----------



## regancipher

jrice1996 said:


> I am still looking for some wireless buds for running. I am a bass head, that primarily listens to rap. A set of earbuds with very powerful bass is extremely important to me, as my current wired pair has a booming bass profile that I really like and am used to. Through some research and recommendations from @Caipirina, I have narrowed my search down to three options: the Sabbat X12 ultra, the Nillikin Go, and the dyplay bqc35. For those that own those models, how do they perform when running, and how much bass do they have? The X12 ultra seems to be the best pair for running - but I have concerns over the amount of bass they contain. The X12 ultra apparently has increased bass levels, but how much?



https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/nillkin-go-tw004-aptx-wireless-earbuds-bt5-0-ipx6.24571/reviews

My review on the Nillkin Go.

Great design, bad sound. Bass may be too your liking, wasn't to mine


----------



## regancipher

dwells said:


> Well, after a month of trying to make them work, I’m abandoning the Aukey EP-N5 which I liked at first. After a half hour or so of wearing them at a time, they just hurt my ears too much. I was hoping I just had them in bad the first time or two it happened, but after some city walks and flights and what have you, they just weren’t comfortable.
> 
> The search continues for ~$60 buds I’ll like. I’ll have to see if the case for the new Fiil buds is slimmer this time around, because the chunky case was the only reason I didn’t keep my T1X last time around.



Funny, the EP-N5 only saving grace for me was the comfort...everything else was terrible.

Amazon driver just woke me up :/ he dropped off the EP-T25 and my Aliexpress order for the Edifier TWNB2. I'll unbox and test once I'm vaguely awake


----------



## bronco1015 (Aug 30, 2020)

regancipher said:


> Funny, the EP-N5 only saving grace for me was the comfort...everything else was terrible.
> 
> Amazon driver just woke me up :/ he dropped off the EP-T25 and my Aliexpress order for the Edifier TWNB2. I'll unbox and test once I'm vaguely awake


EDIT: just realized i posted this in the wrong spot, meant to reply to your post about the nillkin Go 04.
I hope you got a dud. i have a review pair of these arriving tomorrow.


----------



## chinmie

jrice1996 said:


> I am still looking for some wireless buds for running. I am a bass head, that primarily listens to rap. A set of earbuds with very powerful bass is extremely important to me, as my current wired pair has a booming bass profile that I really like and am used to. Through some research and recommendations from @Caipirina, I have narrowed my search down to three options: the Sabbat X12 ultra, the Nillikin Go, and the dyplay bqc35. For those that own those models, how do they perform when running, and how much bass do they have? The X12 ultra seems to be the best pair for running - but I have concerns over the amount of bass they contain. The X12 ultra apparently has increased bass levels, but how much?



i don't have the ultra version, but i have the X12 Pro, and also the Dyplay and Nillkin Go. mind you, what @Caipirina mean by the Nillkin Go, it's not the newer 004 that have tube case, but the older one 




ranking the bass from the most amount :

Dyplay > Nillkin > X12 Pro

if you're a basshead, i would suggest the Dyplay. the bass is big and good on that one. the Nillkin is closer to Ety ER4XR, while the X12 is more of a mid bass with roll off on the low bass.


----------



## regancipher

So far...wow.

Noise cancellation - not in the league of the Apollo. In fact, they don't seem to cancel any top end out at all. I'll take them for a walk later and see what they're like on the low ends.

Microphone quality on the other hand, whilst a tad robotic, cuts practically everything out. 60dBc background noise and all you can hear is my voice. Amazing.

Sound quality...well, I only subjectively tested so far, but they have far more depth than most of the rubbish I stick in my ears. 

Impressed!


----------



## Caipirina

chinmie said:


> i don't have the ultra version, but i have the X12 Pro, and also the Dyplay and Nillkin Go. mind you, what @Caipirina mean by the Nillkin Go, it's not the newer 004 that have tube case, but the older one
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I agree on the bass ranking. 
i Wonder. There is a soundpeats model that is supposed to be ‘all about the bass’, but I have no running experience with them (actually, no experience at all . )


----------



## Caipirina

georgelai57 said:


> The FIIL T1XS is so tempting for USD54 on AliExpress right now but with two T1X (and a few others), do I really need it? Better not ask @Caipirina et al.


I have actually no opinion on the FIIL. Any FIIL. Because I never got around to get those.
But you know my general sentiment ...


----------



## smith

loving my Nuarl N6.....but I need eveyone to talk me out of trying to get hold of the pro model


----------



## Caipirina

dwells said:


> Well, after a month of trying to make them work, I’m abandoning the Aukey EP-N5 which I liked at first. After a half hour or so of wearing them at a time, they just hurt my ears too much. I was hoping I just had them in bad the first time or two it happened, but after some city walks and flights and what have you, they just weren’t comfortable.
> 
> The search continues for ~$60 buds I’ll like. I’ll have to see if the case for the new Fiil buds is slimmer this time around, because the chunky case was the only reason I didn’t keep my T1X last time around.



Flights? You get to do flights?  
I sent those back as well. They quickly moved from ‘comfortable’ to ‘least impressive in my ANC stable’, plus they made extra noise when touching my beard ...


----------



## Caipirina

smith said:


> loving my Nuarl N6.....but I need eveyone to talk me out of trying to get hold of the pro model


Ok. 

Go.Get.The.Pro.Model!


----------



## voicemaster

smith said:


> loving my Nuarl N6.....but I need eveyone to talk me out of trying to get hold of the pro model


Better yet to wait for the N10 no?


----------



## DB10

Hi!!! I will also wait for the Nuarl N10, please, if anyone knows how could I buy them (Nuarl products) in Spain, just when launched, I will be quite glad.

Thanks in advance.


----------



## phaeton70

colour me interested too in these Nuarl N10... any way to buy in EU?


----------



## assassin10000

jrice1996 said:


> The X12 ultra seems to be the best pair for running - but I have concerns over the amount of bass they contain. The X12 ultra apparently has increased bass levels, but how much?



The X12 Ultra kind of reminds me of my mh750/mh755 minus a db or two. Depending on fit may have sub-bass roll off.

In comparison the X12 pro is bass light.


In any case it is not to basshead levels but slightly above what I prefer. I don't fall in the basshead category nor the bass light. I prefer the lows a hair below the harman neutral curve but as far down as diffuse field or even the er4xr.


----------



## smith

Caipirina said:


> Ok.
> 
> Go.Get.The.Pro.Model!



Not helpful 😊...but as others have pointed out the N10 is probably the way to go...


----------



## DB10

phaeton70 said:


> colour me interested too in these Nuarl N10... any way to buy in EU?


Hi, the same in my previous post, if you find anything let me know, I will also search options.

Thanks!


----------



## typhoon838 (Aug 30, 2020)

typhoon838 said:


> Hi friends
> 
> Checking back here after a little while of not keeping up and was wondering what the interesting new players in the market are.
> 
> ...




Bump since I didn't get any responses

Anyone have any ideas for something that sounds similar to/more bassy than Anbes 359/Tranya T3, with ambient mode being a BIG plus?

Edit: Looked into a few threads and it seems like the Tronsmart Apollos might check those boxes, would appreciate some opinions on it or alternatives though, comparisons to the Tranya T3s would be VERY nice as well


----------



## regancipher

Two more reviews:

Edifier TWS NB2: https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/ed...eless-earbuds.24594/reviews#item-review-24234
Aukey EP-T25: https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/aukey-ep-t25-wireless-earbuds.24593/reviews


----------



## Caipirina

smith said:


> Not helpful 😊...but as others have pointed out the N10 is probably the way to go...


I was going for “reverse psychology” there.


----------



## dwells (Aug 30, 2020)

Caipirina said:


> Flights? You get to do flights?
> I sent those back as well. They quickly moved from ‘comfortable’ to ‘least impressive in my ANC stable’, plus they made extra noise when touching my beard ...


Yeah, I got the virus back in January - my first time in China and I literally wind up in Wuhan right as a new pandemic starts, go figure! So while I still wear a mask and obey whatever local regulations are in place wherever I am, I’m not hugely worried anymore and am willing to hop on a plane. Was actually supposed to head to Ukraine this week, but the borders just got locked so I’m on hiatus for a bit.

Oh well, gives me more time to find the right pair of earbuds!


----------



## regancipher

dwells said:


> Yeah, I got the virus back in January - my first time in China and I literally wind up in Wuhan right as a new pandemic starts, go figure! So while I still wear a mask and obey whatever local regulations are in place wherever I am, I’m not hugely worried anymore and am willing to hop on a plane. Was actually supposed to head to Ukraine this week, but the borders just got locked so I’m on hiatus for a bit.
> 
> Oh well, gives me more time to find the right pair of earbuds!


Glad to hear you're on the mend! If it makes you feel any better, I got it despite only leaving the house about 5 times in 3 months and seeing a grand total of about 8 people...go figure!


----------



## Caipirina

dwells said:


> Yeah, I got the virus back in January - my first time in China and I literally wind up in Wuhan right as a new pandemic starts, go figure! So while I still wear a mask and obey whatever local regulations are in place wherever I am, I’m not hugely worried anymore and am willing to hop on a plane. Was actually supposed to head to Ukraine this week, but the borders just got locked so I’m on hiatus for a bit.
> 
> Oh well, gives me more time to find the right pair of earbuds!


Wow, talk about ‘early adopter’! Glad you seem to have made it through it quite well. 
will be on a plane myself come Saturday and will take a bunch of ANC buds with me to test against flight noise


----------



## TK33

For those who have the Galaxy Buds Live, I randomly checked for an update just now and one was available (not sure when it came out since I last updated on August 10.  Version info attached.

I don't know if it was a result of the update or if I just got used to the way these sound but I am now joining the rest of you who are using Normal.  Still a bit bass heavy for my liking but doesn't sound muffled and hazy like I first remember it sounding (sounds really clear now actually) and the Clear setting started sounding a bit thin and off to me.


----------



## DynamicEars

Did anyone try the realme buds Q budget TWS? they have 10mm driver that intrigued me for a budget level


----------



## Caipirina

TK33 said:


> For those who have the Galaxy Buds Live, I randomly checked for an update just now and one was available (not sure when it came out since I last updated on August 10.  Version info attached.
> 
> I don't know if it was a result of the update or if I just got used to the way these sound but I am now joining the rest of you who are using Normal.  Still a bit bass heavy for my liking but doesn't sound muffled and hazy like I first remember it sounding (sounds really clear now actually) and the Clear setting started sounding a bit thin and off to me.


Seems that last update was on Aug 22, just when they came out in EU


----------



## dwells

Caipirina said:


> Wow, talk about ‘early adopter’! Glad you seem to have made it through it quite well.
> will be on a plane myself come Saturday and will take a bunch of ANC buds with me to test against flight noise





regancipher said:


> Glad to hear you're on the mend! If it makes you feel any better, I got it despite only leaving the house about 5 times in 3 months and seeing a grand total of about 8 people...go figure!


Thanks, guys!

Looks like Geekbuying has the new Fiil T1 XS for $49 right now... very tempting. If it weren’t for ship times to the US being such a dice roll, I’d probably just order a pair. I’d hate to be heading out to travel again in three or four weeks and not having gotten my order yet. But damn, assuming they sound like the T1 X before them, they’re probably exactly what I’m looking for now that the case is smaller and lighter and they come in gloss white.


----------



## regancipher

dwells said:


> Thanks, guys!
> 
> Looks like Geekbuying has the new Fiil T1 XS for $49 right now... very tempting. If it weren’t for ship times to the US being such a dice roll, I’d probably just order a pair. I’d hate to be heading out to travel again in three or four weeks and not having gotten my order yet. But damn, assuming they sound like the T1 X before them, they’re probably exactly what I’m looking for now that the case is smaller and lighter and they come in gloss white.


I've got the T1XS on the way, through Aliexpress.

No tracking yet but that could mean anything!

The Edifier got tracking updated today even though they got delivered yesterday!


----------



## Laethageal

Hello guys!

I'm looking for some advice regarding new IEM. 

I've got pretty small ear canals and most older style IEM wouldn't fit me.

Few years back, I meant to get something for out of house use and I bought the B&O H5. They were too big for my ears and would hurt badly after a few minutes, gave up and gifted them to wifey 

I went back to my PSB M4U headphones and gave up the idea of getting iem/cans for outside. They died not long after and got replaced by B&W P7, which sounds greats to me but that I dare not use outside due to the bulk and not sticking to their position when I move around such as in light training, gardening, etc.

I recently got a cheap pair of Sennheiser HD 450BT at 95$ cad brand new and find them decent in comfort while being OK to use outside the home doing some light work, but sounds too muddy for my taste. I guess the ANC isn't the best, but it is enough for me as it isn't something as important as sound quality to me.

Now, since I don't really like the SQ of those Sennheiser, I'm considering swapping them. Since I'd love being able to have quality music with me even when on worksite wearing a hard cap, I am back exploring IEM options. Some friends had me quickly test Airpods Pro and Soundpeats TueAir and both were way better comfort wise than any other I previously tested. The Airpods Pro did sound awful when using in mono which is an option I'm going after. The TrueAir were not charged so I could only get an idea of the fit.

Based on small ear canals, SQ priority and able to get decent mono SQ requirements, anyone would be able to recommend a few mid-range/high-range choice to me ? 

Even if I do love high end product, I will not disregard cheaper options if the SQ & comfort doesn't warrant the price difference.


----------



## assassin10000 (Aug 31, 2020)

Laethageal said:


> Hello guys!
> 
> I'm looking for some advice regarding new IEM.
> 
> ...



What kind of sound signature do you like (is there a wired IEM you prefer)? What genres do you listen to, what volume level? Is there a battery life minimum you need?

How small is 'small'? Is depth also an issue? Is the size of your concha also an issue?


For instance I use small to medium small tips which range from about 10.5mm-11mm. I also have shallow insertion depth to the 1st bend in my ear canal. I also have smaller sized concha, so many IEM/TWS are uncomfortable for me. 

For wired I find the best fit with Westone IEMs, the best fitting TWS was the Tronsmart Spunky Beats but it had lackluster battery life (2.5-3hrs). My current favorite TWS is the Air-XR for fit, sound and ok battery life (5-6 hours).


----------



## Mlaihk

Try the new Samsung Galaxy Buds Live......


----------



## Bobbetybob

typhoon838 said:


> Bump since I didn't get any responses
> 
> Anyone have any ideas for something that sounds similar to/more bassy than Anbes 359/Tranya T3, with ambient mode being a BIG plus?
> 
> Edit: Looked into a few threads and it seems like the Tronsmart Apollos might check those boxes, would appreciate some opinions on it or alternatives though, comparisons to the Tranya T3s would be VERY nice as well


I think the Jabra 65/75t are supposed to be quite bassy and both have ambient modes, might be worth a look.


----------



## Kvarkmeister

jant71 said:


> AptX adaptive which should be for a hybrid so they didn't just do aptX like so many. Buuut, while looking good but seems Soundpeats doesn't do transparency/talk through. No IPX rating either. Comes down to the price and how good they sound if one wants to forgo those things.
> 
> Edit: Then more bad news as I got the email when you sign up for the 41% off H1 and it's a Kickstarter campaign.


Damn! More SoundPEATS. Looks like 3SE is already inferior, haha. We'll have to wait and see, these got me excited.


----------



## TWSMan

FYLegend said:


> I just got these from Amazon.ca this week as well. Are you not getting any left bud EMI static when ANC is turned off/ambient mode on? It's rather noticeable for me (even on louder tracks) yet everything is fine when ANC is turned on. I also noticed my case battery drain abruptly today and the buds not powering off on some occasions, so I might send it back. It seems like once the case battery is depleted, the buds will not power off when placed in the case. This is not uncommon but some TWS like the Galaxy Buds+ still power off properly, presumably because powering on/off does not rely on the case battery.
> 
> I agree the ANC takes time to get used to. It does very well with low frequencies during my commute but I do think their floor noise has an effect on you thinking the ANC is more or less effective.
> 
> ...


Did some more testing but I don't hear any static when ANC is off or in ambient mode.  However, I do have some issues with the battery on the earbuds where on a couple of occasions approaching the 5 hrs mark, the phone displays the earbuds battery at 40%, I then hear a battery low message followed by them turning off automatically.  So the battery indicator is abit off giving a false indication of how long left they have dropping from 40% to zero in a matter of 10 minutes.  

I had a similar issue as you with the case when I placed the earbuds back in to charge up which turns off the earbuds as expected.  The case only had one light left but when it depleted, the earbuds automatically turned themselves back on and connected to my phone again.  I haven't figured out how to power them off manually so in the end, I plugged the case to a USB charger and once the charging resumed, the earbuds turned themselves off.

I've been alternating between testing these and the Panasonics and it gets a little confusing at times with all the various combinations on the left or right earbud for each of the functions e.g. left earbud controls ANC/Ambient mode on the TaoTronic but it's on the right earbud with the Panasonic - I do like the music being paused when going into ambient mode (on the TaoTronics) but not so keen it starts playing music again when turning ambient mode off especially in the last few days as I've been comparing ANC/ambient/off modes whilst not playing any music.

The battery on the Panasonic is abit better at 5.5 hrs with ANC on compared to 5 hrs on the TaoTronics.  I was playing around on the Panasonic app with the find headphones feature and it's pretty cool that it displays the last location on a map with an address for each of the left and right earbuds.  The emit sound is useful if the earbuds are misplaced somewhere in the house.  It seems the app is dependent on the GPS/location being on because when I turned off GPS on the phone, the app couldn't connect to the earbuds anymore until I re-enabled GPS again.

So far, I'm liking the Panasonic sound more than the TaoTronics but once they're burned in a little more, I'll compare with the other earbuds I have including the L2P, Bomaker Sifi II, Mpow M5 and a few Tranya's.


----------



## The Apostle

Shadowclash10 said:


> Okay then. I agree, but I still wouldn;t feel comfotable taking relatively expensive buds that re not fully certified into a pool, but YMMV.





Shadowclash10 said:


> Wait, you SWAM with IPX5?? Like, full submersion?





bronco1015 said:


> Yeah. They're more than capable. and this wasn't at some pool in someone's yard, it was at a local gym. the Pool's deepest point is at 8 feet. To a certain degree i think as long as you don't get the driver wet or very wet, or can dry it off quickly, you'll be fine. IF i still owned the WF XM3, i wouldn't swim with them, but if i'd wanted to work out with them in i wouldn't have worried about it. OP phones up until very recently weren't IPX certified, but some of them were capable of some level of water and dust resistance. But paying for that certification costs money, and not paying for it creates an opportunity for an OEM to pass the savings on to the consumer.
> I wouldn't be surprised at all if the WF 1000X M3 had at least an IP4 rating, but between not getting the product certified, and not paying Qualcom for an SOC and access to APTX, they can price the XM3 at a price where they can easily make a profit, but not charge top $ like B&O, M&D and Sennheiser.
> AS far as range while under water, i have to keep my phone in an area hidden with my stuff, and other than the occasional studder, i can get a signal, but my phone isn't ever very far away. I grew up near an olympic sized pool and it's 17 feet at it's deepest point. i'm sure i'd have loads of trouble swimming with any Bluetooth headset there.





Shadowclash10 said:


> Okay then. I agree, but I still wouldn;t feel comfotable taking relatively expensive buds that re not fully certified into a pool, but YMMV.



Well, holy crap.  I have 2 pairs... Might just say screw it and hop in the water with one pair.  Anyone else try?


----------



## Luchyres

Exciting times... the Nuarl N6 Mini (N6 Sport, is how I think of them) is now for sale on Amazon.co.jp - hopefully avail on Amazon USA soon-


----------



## Bhelpoori

Amazon Echo Buds are $89.99 on Amazon US for a limited time.


----------



## typhoon838

Bobbetybob said:


> I think the Jabra 65/75t are supposed to be quite bassy and both have ambient modes, might be worth a look.



Scarbir says they're balanced and airy!


----------



## FYLegend (Aug 31, 2020)

TWSMan said:


> Did some more testing but I don't hear any static when ANC is off or in ambient mode.  However, I do have some issues with the battery on the earbuds where on a couple of occasions approaching the 5 hrs mark, the phone displays the earbuds battery at 40%, I then hear a battery low message followed by them turning off automatically.  So the battery indicator is abit off giving a false indication of how long left they have dropping from 40% to zero in a matter of 10 minutes.
> 
> I had a similar issue as you with the case when I placed the earbuds back in to charge up which turns off the earbuds as expected.  The case only had one light left but when it depleted, the earbuds automatically turned themselves back on and connected to my phone again.  I haven't figured out how to power them off manually so in the end, I plugged the case to a USB charger and once the charging resumed, the earbuds turned themselves off.
> 
> ...


Thanks, sounds like I got a dud. Another user reported to me the same problem though. It sounds like a cricket chirping through my left bud whenever it feels like it!

Yesterday the case still had 4 lights but I left the buds in the car and later when I came to get them both the buds and the case were low in battery. When the battery was low, the left bud started to exhibit the static interference, even when ANC was turned on, but it went away once they were fully charged (alas it still persists with ANC off/ambient mode on)

Regarding AAC and SBC on Windows 10, it seems the Taotronics SoundLiberty 94 connect to SBC on Windows 10 with bitpool 53. I see some of the specificatons on Bluetooth tweaker related to AAC are crossed out suggesting my modem does not support it. On Android, it defaults to AAC - the bass is less boomy and the highs are a tad cleaner, but I would not be dissatisfied with the SBC sound.

In terms of sound, the TaoTronics remind me a bit of the Earfun Free Oluv edition I tried last year, which sadly broke within the first week. Both have a similar emphasized mid-bass, though the TaoTronics has more treble detail while the Earfun Free had slightly more mids. Soundstage and detail retrieval is actually quite good if you can overlook the dark sound, though I wonder how much of this is a DSP effect because of the way things resonate and reverb. With ANC on, the bass and mids sound more hollow while ANC off sounds has a richer sound. A polar opposite to the Galaxy Buds+ which is a very lean and bright sound.


----------



## chinmie

typhoon838 said:


> Bump since I didn't get any responses
> 
> Anyone have any ideas for something that sounds similar to/more bassy than Anbes 359/Tranya T3, with ambient mode being a BIG plus?
> 
> Edit: Looked into a few threads and it seems like the Tronsmart Apollos might check those boxes, would appreciate some opinions on it or alternatives though, comparisons to the Tranya T3s would be VERY nice as well





Bobbetybob said:


> I think the Jabra 65/75t are supposed to be quite bassy and both have ambient modes, might be worth a look.





typhoon838 said:


> Scarbir says they're balanced and airy!



The Apollo has somewhat similar bassy sound to the 65T (i haven't tried the 75T yet} , but for the mids, treble, and other technical capabilities, I'd say the Apollo is better. 65T has a very digital sounding mids and treble..very clean, but might not for everyone's taste. 

it's very bassy for my taste that i have to cut the bass quite a lot, but even un-EQd the Apollo is more listenable than the unEQd 65T.

i also prefer the ambient mode of the Apollo. it does amplify a little, adding a slight white noise, but it can simulate open headphones sound a bit, adding illusion of airy-ness to the sound


----------



## Tronsmart Official

typhoon838 said:


> Bump since I didn't get any responses
> 
> Anyone have any ideas for something that sounds similar to/more bassy than Anbes 359/Tranya T3, with ambient mode being a BIG plus?
> 
> Edit: Looked into a few threads and it seems like the Tronsmart Apollos might check those boxes, would appreciate some opinions on it or alternatives though, comparisons to the Tranya T3s would be VERY nice as well


Don't forget to join our review program! Maybe you can get a free one! 
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/【award-review】tronsmart-apollo-bold-review-program.940374


----------



## DigDub

I rec





TK33 said:


> For those who have the Galaxy Buds Live, I randomly checked for an update just now and one was available (not sure when it came out since I last updated on August 10.  Version info attached.
> 
> I don't know if it was a result of the update or if I just got used to the way these sound but I am now joining the rest of you who are using Normal.  Still a bit bass heavy for my liking but doesn't sound muffled and hazy like I first remember it sounding (sounds really clear now actually) and the Clear setting started sounding a bit thin and off to me.


I received the ATH2 update today too. I also find the sound with the latest update to be clearer and less muffled/warm.


----------



## Caipirina (Sep 1, 2020)

Is switching TWS from i.e. phone to another device (computer) getting more tricky? In 2 cases now I had to google it, as it was not intuitive and 'pairing mode' was not really easily to be found ...

For the GBeans I have to thank Cnet for this very easy trick which works like a charm:
_If you've already connected the Buds Live to your phone but want to connect them to a computer, tablet or another phone, the quick trick of opening the charging case won't work. Instead, you'll need to put both earbuds in your ears, then long-press on both of them until you hear a radar-like sound, indicating they are in pairing mode. Then follow the standard pairing process based on the device you're using._

For the Panasonic RZ S500W it's a different story though ... I found this on Soundguys ... and like them I am having no luck with the 7 second rule:
_According to the paperwork, pairing a different device later on requires you to remove the earbuds and tap and hold the left or right touch panel for seven seconds. At this point, the LEDs will alternate between red and blue. When connections are separately formed with multiple devices, the headset will attempt to reconnect to the last-used device when removed from the case. Unfortunately, I was unable to do this, and had to perform a hard reset when I wanted to pair a new device with the Panasonic RZ-S500W._

Sooooo ... has anyone figure out how to connect their Pana500 to Mac and back to phone easily?

(EDIT: OK, responding to myself) found this on HeadphoneCheck and this seems to be working ... a few more steps than Soundguys described .. so, NOT really easy and apparently NOT possible without the case .. 

_ If you want to connect the already paired in-ears to another device (multipoint is not supported), you first have to disconnect the original player and then press one of the two touch surfaces for seven seconds within three seconds after removing it from the case. These in-ears remember the last ten devices that they have already been paired with, so if an eleventh device is added, the oldest connection is deleted._


----------



## jant71

Kinda clumsy Klipsch Mclaren unbox. 
Doesn't get how to open the case and didn't realize about the charging pad I guess.  Don't think they are out just yet so probably a review sample. Hopefully they do a better job on a review than the unboxing.


----------



## logiatype

Caipirina said:


> Is switching TWS from i.e. phone to another device (computer) getting more tricky? In 2 cases now I had to google it, as it was not intuitive and 'pairing mode' was not really easily to be found ...
> 
> For the GBeans I have to thank Cnet for this very easy trick which works like a charm:
> _If you've already connected the Buds Live to your phone but want to connect them to a computer, tablet or another phone, the quick trick of opening the charging case won't work. Instead, you'll need to put both earbuds in your ears, then long-press on both of them until you hear a radar-like sound, indicating they are in pairing mode. Then follow the standard pairing process based on the device you're using._
> ...



Yes it's pretty annoying with all the ones I've tried (need to connect to PC and phone for work). Multi-connect is pretty bad on all of them which is odd because the Jaybird X3 and X4 do it flawlessly. GBuds+ will kick you off the current device if you try to connect with another paired device (it's been a while since i sent them back so might be wrong there).


----------



## phaeton70

I spent some time trying different 3rd party silicone tips with the Pana S500. finally found what seems the best fit for me, a transparent very soft XL (14mm) short tips that work really well. bass are a litlle bit down, and now I wold rate the timbre of these S500 as very linear. unfortunately I don't remember where these tips are coming from, possibly from a Sony or Audiotechnica IEM, but not sure. what I know is that they work really very well with the Pana for me.
with these tips I can say these Pana are really very well worth the money they cost, really an incredibly good sounding pair of tws at the price.


----------



## Kvarkmeister (Sep 1, 2020)

Hello, everyone.
I was looking into some silicone eartip replacements after hearing good words about them (SpinFit, Comply, etc.) but I currently don't have a good idea what I should be looking for since it's not easy to know what fits my ears the best.
Does anyone know if there exists some kind of a package/bundle that includes eartips with different numbers of flanges and sizes so it's possible to play around with them? Colour isn't very important and I'm not sure if maybe foam eartips would be a good option as well (I heard that they don't like water so not recommended for exercising). I ask this because shipping is usually pretty costly and time-consuming here and I don't want to bother purchasing items one after another.
I would love to hear your experiences! Any word on this is welcome. Something like @phaeton70 just posted.


----------



## TWSMan

Caipirina said:


> Is switching TWS from i.e. phone to another device (computer) getting more tricky? In 2 cases now I had to google it, as it was not intuitive and 'pairing mode' was not really easily to be found ...
> 
> For the GBeans I have to thank Cnet for this very easy trick which works like a charm:
> _If you've already connected the Buds Live to your phone but want to connect them to a computer, tablet or another phone, the quick trick of opening the charging case won't work. Instead, you'll need to put both earbuds in your ears, then long-press on both of them until you hear a radar-like sound, indicating they are in pairing mode. Then follow the standard pairing process based on the device you're using._
> ...


Have to agree the Pana500 has one of the more complicated ways of pairing with multiple devices.

I've just done a little test on a few of my other earbuds including the L2P, Tranya's, Taotronic SoundLiberty 94 and Bomake Sifi II and all of them go into pairing mode automatically either by turning off the bluetooth on the paired device or doing a disconnect - if only all earbuds followed the same standard.


----------



## Audiosolace

Kvarkmeister said:


> Hello, everyone.
> I was looking into some silicone eartip replacements after hearing good words about them (SpinFit, Comply, etc.) but I currently don't have a good idea what I should be looking for since it's not easy to know what fits my ears the best.
> Does anyone know if there exists some kind of a package/bundle that includes eartips with different numbers of flanges and sizes so it's possible to play around with them? Colour isn't very important and I'm not sure if maybe foam eartips would be a good option as well (I heard that they don't like water so not recommended for exercising). I ask this because shipping is usually pretty costly and time-consuming here and I don't want to bother purchasing items one after another.
> I would love to hear your experiences! Any word on this is welcome. Something like @phaeton70 just posted.



Symbio ear tips have the best of inner foams and a thin silicone exterior


----------



## assassin10000

Kvarkmeister said:


> Hello, everyone.
> I was looking into some silicone eartip replacements after hearing good words about them (SpinFit, Comply, etc.) but I currently don't have a good idea what I should be looking for since it's not easy to know what fits my ears the best.
> Does anyone know if there exists some kind of a package/bundle that includes eartips with different numbers of flanges and sizes so it's possible to play around with them? Colour isn't very important and I'm not sure if maybe foam eartips would be a good option as well (I heard that they don't like water so not recommended for exercising). I ask this because shipping is usually pretty costly and time-consuming here and I don't want to bother purchasing items one after another.
> I would love to hear your experiences! Any word on this is welcome. Something like @phaeton70 just posted.



Got any current IEMs with tips? If so measure the ones that fits you to get a good starting point for sizing.


Best to look for info here:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/best-iem-tips.626895/


----------



## Laethageal (Sep 1, 2020)

Trying to finally get some IEM that fits my ear and decided to give a go to a few so I can compare what's on the market.
Seen a few on Aliexpress, but I won't be getting 6 pairs and need to lower the amount of choice  I also wanted to test 1-2 higher end "known" brand, maybe the Klipsch?

20 Decebels - DualRad ANC TWS
Edifier - TWSNB2
Picun - JS6
Mpow - X3
Tronsmart - Apollo bold
Ankers - Soundcore liberty 2 pro removed from list due to hissing common issue

Which 2 of the list would you recommend trying ?


----------



## Tronsmart Official

Laethageal said:


> Trying to finally get some IEM that fits my ear and decided to give a go to a few so I can compare what's on the market.
> Seen a few on Aliexpress, but I won't be getting 6 pairs and need to lower the amount of choice  I also wanted to test 1-2 higher end "known" brand, maybe the Klipsch?
> 
> 20 Decebels - DualRad ANC TWS
> ...


  Apollo Bold is here!


----------



## TK33

logiatype said:


> Yes it's pretty annoying with all the ones I've tried (need to connect to PC and phone for work). Multi-connect is pretty bad on all of them which is odd because the Jaybird X3 and X4 do it flawlessly. GBuds+ will kick you off the current device if you try to connect with another paired device (it's been a while since i sent them back so might be wrong there).



I just paired my Galaxy Buds Live with a second phone (paired to V60 amd S9) to test this out and can confirm the Galaxy Buds Live behave the same way (if you connect from a second phone while already connected to a first phone, it will disconnect from the first phone automatically so you dont have to manually disconnect from the first device before connecting to the second.  Worked with my LG and Samsung, which is really convenient.  Wish every bluetooth device worked this way.


----------



## jrice1996

Has anybody used the Nillikin Go or the Dyplay bqc35 for running? If so, how did they perform?


----------



## FYLegend

TK33 said:


> I just paired my Galaxy Buds Live with a second phone (paired to V60 amd S9) to test this out and can confirm the Galaxy Buds Live behave the same way (if you connect from a second phone while already connected to a first phone, it will disconnect from the first phone automatically so you dont have to manually disconnect from the first device before connecting to the second.  Worked with my LG and Samsung, which is really convenient.  Wish every bluetooth device worked this way.


It's convenient if you don't happen to be using the earbuds (I have the Buds+), but when I power on my Windows 10 laptop, it automatically disconnects with my phone and to my laptop. Not sure if it does this between phones when you turn Bluetooth on, but I read that there's nothing that can be done about this on Windows 10. Fortunately Samsung added the option to turn off seamless connection in a firmware update. I'd much rather they had real multipoint than something like this.


----------



## TK33

FYLegend said:


> It's convenient if you don't happen to be using the earbuds (I have the Buds+), but when I power on my Windows 10 laptop, it automatically disconnects with my phone and to my laptop. Not sure if it does this between phones when you turn Bluetooth on, but I read that there's nothing that can be done about this on Windows 10. Fortunately Samsung added the option to turn off seamless connection in a firmware update. I'd much rather they had real multipoint than something like this.



My phones did not do that.  I use a Shure BT2 cable, which has multipoint, for my Surface (mostly so I wont miss calls while working) but I find multipoint can also be annoying when I dont want to be interrupted (in such cases I would use something else). For my desktop, I dont pair anything directly in Windows and pair my bluetooth headphones/receiver to a Nad D3045 and a Node 2i since they both have aptX HD (and neither automatically connects and you have to manually select the headphones you want to use). For devices like you describe, I try to use a dedicated headphone because of that issue and purposely kept my Galaxy Buds Live paired to only my Galaxy S9 (and not my V60) until I saw these posts today because I was afraid of that. In my case, it is super convenient because now I can enjoy my Galaxy Buds Live with whichever phone I want.  It is interesting that we all have different preferences and use cases.


----------



## FYLegend

TK33 said:


> My phones did not do that.  I use a Shure BT2 cable, which has multipoint, for my Surface (mostly so I wont miss calls while working) but I find multipoint can also be annoying when I dont want to be interrupted (in such cases I would use something else). For my desktop, I dont pair anything directly in Windows and pair my bluetooth headphones/receiver to a Nad D3045 and a Node 2i since they both have aptX HD (and neither automatically connects and you have to manually select the headphones you want to use). For devices like you describe, I try to use a dedicated headphone because of that issue and purposely kept my Galaxy Buds Live paired to only my Galaxy S9 (and not my V60) until I saw these posts today because I was afraid of that. In my case, it is super convenient because now I can enjoy my Galaxy Buds Live with whichever phone I want.  It is interesting that we all have different preferences and use cases.


I agree multipoint has its issues, but I can't see how these can't be addressed. I'm just surprised that at this day and age, almost nobody except Jabra has pushed for multipoint. I use a Dyplay headphone and usually don't get interruptions but there are occasions where the second device triggers interference of the device currently playing audio (for example, auto-play videos while browsing on my phone when listening to music through my laptop). Using the Note 9's S-Pen can also cause the same thing to happen.


----------



## soullinker20

got my technics eah-az70w weeks ago but been busy. I'd say they're not as big as I thought they'll be. I like the balance sound an seamless connection. not bassy but is there when needed. imaging is really good and very obvious when watching movies. vocals sound rich, natural and clear. the sennheiser mtw is bigger and hurts after an hour or so. the technics are comfortable and light


----------



## DB10

Hi!!!
Finally, I sent back my Sonys XM3 and I have received the Galaxy Buds Plus, they sound good for me and the fit is fine. I have been researching about compatible tips that would improve the default ones (better if they were foam), but I only find that there are a complys that are compatible, quite expensive and people comment that they are broken in less than two weeks...

Do you have any suggestions?. I have some Inair, quite good, but the case doesn't close, and is impossible to charge them.

Thanks in advance!!!


----------



## assassin10000

@DB10 I used de-cored APP foam tips and T400 foam tips cut shorter (about 6-7mm) on my Buds+.

De-cored APP foam tips:



There is also ikko i-Planet or misodiko TWS-PRO. Which are similarly designed foam tips meant for TWS. Slight differences in sizing. Small ikko are 11.5mm and small tws-pro are 12.0mm when I measured them.

ikko i-planet


TWS-Pro style tips:


----------



## Francesco Montanari

Laethageal said:


> Trying to finally get some IEM that fits my ear and decided to give a go to a few so I can compare what's on the market.
> Seen a few on Aliexpress, but I won't be getting 6 pairs and need to lower the amount of choice  I also wanted to test 1-2 higher end "known" brand, maybe the Klipsch?
> 
> 20 Decebels - DualRad ANC TWS
> ...


Avoid 20 decebel. Soooo weird


----------



## chinmie

Francesco Montanari said:


> Avoid 20 decebel. Soooo weird



in what way? the sound?


----------



## regancipher

jrice1996 said:


> Has anybody used the Nillikin Go or the Dyplay bqc35 for running? If so, how did they perform?



The TW004 are fantastic for running.

For listening to music they're unfortunately pretty awful


----------



## DB10

assassin10000 said:


> @DB10 I used de-cored APP foam tips and T400 foam tips cut shorter (about 6-7mm) on my Buds+.
> 
> De-cored APP foam tips:
> 
> ...



Hi @assassin10000 , thanks for all your information, I will check the availability in Amazon Spain or ebay, if they are not available I will order them in Aliexpress, but the delivery time is now quite long, in Spain.

One additional thing, T400 are standard (for example Comply or similar ones) foam tips? and, what do you mean with _De-cored APP _foam tips?

Thanks in advance, your help and experience are so helpful for me!


----------



## regancipher

Laethageal said:


> Trying to finally get some IEM that fits my ear and decided to give a go to a few so I can compare what's on the market.
> Seen a few on Aliexpress, but I won't be getting 6 pairs and need to lower the amount of choice  I also wanted to test 1-2 higher end "known" brand, maybe the Klipsch?
> 
> 20 Decebels - DualRad ANC TWS
> ...



The Picun JS6, because I haven't tested them 

If you want two good sets to keep, it's the Apollo Bold and the Edifier. The Tronsmart are dividing opinion on here over the bass but I absolutely love them. I've put some difficult tracks through them and they've performed admirably.

The Edifier are different. The TWSNB2 are very soft but great for calls


----------



## Luke Skywalker (Sep 2, 2020)

Kvarkmeister said:


> Hello, everyone.
> I was looking into some silicone eartip replacements after hearing good words about them (SpinFit, Comply, etc.) but I currently don't have a good idea what I should be looking for since it's not easy to know what fits my ears the best.
> Does anyone know if there exists some kind of a package/bundle that includes eartips with different numbers of flanges and sizes so it's possible to play around with them? Colour isn't very important and I'm not sure if maybe foam eartips would be a good option as well (I heard that they don't like water so not recommended for exercising). I ask this because shipping is usually pretty costly and time-consuming here and I don't want to bother purchasing items one after another.
> I would love to hear your experiences! Any word on this is welcome. Something like @phaeton70 just posted.


I absolutely love Acoustune AET08's.  I use them on my JH Lola, Jabra 65's, Sony XM3, and Nuarl N6 Pro.

https://www.mtmtaudio.com/products/acoustune-aet08-eartip-3-pairs

For what it's worth (probably not much), the large size fit in my ears the best.

(Thanks to @MaxwellDot for recommending these...)


----------



## Luke Skywalker

DB10 said:


> Hi!!!
> Finally, I sent back my Sonys XM3 and I have received the Galaxy Buds Plus, they sound good for me and the fit is fine. I have been researching about compatible tips that would improve the default ones (better if they were foam), but I only find that there are a complys that are compatible, quite expensive and people comment that they are broken in less than two weeks...
> 
> Do you have any suggestions?. I have some Inair, quite good, but the case doesn't close, and is impossible to charge them.
> ...


Acoustune AET08 Large size


----------



## Inear

Bose earbuds hit the FCC. Announcement should be soon. 

https://fccid.io/A94BL3R/External-P...35440-Bose-Model-BL3R-External-Photos-4877228


----------



## Kvarkmeister

Thanks for the replies! I received the Truengine 3SE today and my petty ears are so far astounded by the sound. I noticed S-size tips are the most comfortable and deep while M-size gives a secure fit. Even though I think I'll be happy with the included eartips, I'll check out what you have recommended.


----------



## DB10

Luke Skywalker said:


> Acoustune AET08



Hi, thanks for your reply, I am just now having a look in the store, I think I will purchase (to obtain free shipping) the Acustune and a pair of Xelastec to test them because everyone says they are so lovely...

All the best!!!


----------



## LoryWiv

Kvarkmeister said:


> Thanks for the replies! I received the Truengine 3SE today and my petty ears are so far astounded by the sound. I noticed S-size tips are the most comfortable and deep while M-size gives a secure fit. Even though I think I'll be happy with the included eartips, I'll check out what you have recommended.


I had ordered these to US but there was a shipping problem and Amazon cancelled order. perhaps I will try again or wait for the new Soundpeats BA - DD hybrid launching on Indiego.


----------



## Laethageal

Francesco Montanari said:


> Avoid 20 decebel. Soooo weird



Thanks for the heads up. I'll avoid them👍



regancipher said:


> The Picun JS6, because I haven't tested them
> 
> If you want two good sets to keep, it's the Apollo Bold and the Edifier. The Tronsmart are dividing opinion on here over the bass but I absolutely love them. I've put some difficult tracks through them and they've performed admirably.
> 
> The Edifier are different. The TWSNB2 are very soft but great for calls



Great. Since I often get phone calls during the day while using them, I might first try the Edifier. Seems like the general consensus about their phone call quality. 



Tronsmart Official said:


> Apollo Bold is here!


Maybe you'll accept my entrance in your review program so I can test the Apollo Bold against the Edifier and 1 more I haven't decided yet? 
I'll gladly test myself on my first earbud review and comparison. 
😊😉😁


----------



## dwells (Sep 2, 2020)

Looks like the $50 sale for the Fiil T1 XS is done, I should’ve just ordered a pair. Hell, even at $75, I’d order a pair if I knew for sure I could get them In time by the end of the month when I think I’m leaving for Turkey. Scarbir’s review showing the case being overall smaller and a cm thinner and talking about how the sound has gotten even better (not to mention how pretty they look in white) really sold me on a pair. 

Amazon has the original Fiil T1 X on sale for $42 currently, which is an absolutely killer deal for anyone who doesn’t mind the bulky case. I wish the case weren’t such an issue for me, because the bang for buck is totally unbeatable.


----------



## regancipher

Laethageal said:


> Thanks for the heads up. I'll avoid them👍
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Yeah the call quality is unreal. I took them into London today, no connectivity issues and the mics cut everything out. Edifier have smashed it with these!

They still don't do noise canceling and sound as good as the Apollo Bold IMO though. These are the equivalent to my Avantree Aria Pro over ears - great all round headphones, but not what I would listen to my favourite songs on.


----------



## Laethageal

regancipher said:


> Yeah the call quality is unreal. I took them into London today, no connectivity issues and the mics cut everything out. Edifier have smashed it with these!
> 
> They still don't do noise canceling and sound as good as the Apollo Bold IMO though. These are the equivalent to my Avantree Aria Pro over ears - great all round headphones, but not what I would listen to my favourite songs on.


Since you own them, would you be able to measure the size of the plastic part holding the tip? Having midget sized ear holes, I have some hard time finding something that doesn't hurt, even for multiple hours after removing my current earbud I use to receive phone calls at job. Having the size, I could compare them to the size of mine to know if it's worth ordering for a test. If they sre similarly sized or bigger, it's a no go for me sadly. 
I secretly wish they are smaller size as phone call quality is seriously sub par on the Azally I use and people can't understand what I say when there is some cars around me or if there is too much wind (30km/h+ is usually too windy).


----------



## assassin10000

DB10 said:


> Hi @assassin10000 , thanks for all your information, I will check the availability in Amazon Spain or ebay, if they are not available I will order them in Aliexpress, but the delivery time is now quite long, in Spain.
> 
> One additional thing, T400 are standard (for example Comply or similar ones) foam tips? and, what do you mean with _De-cored APP _foam tips?
> 
> Thanks in advance, your help and experience are so helpful for me!



Yes, T400 refer to standard shape foam tips. T400 is the bore/center size. Tennmak has an improved version with a better foam and silicone like outer skin.

These are the different ones; T100, T200, T300 & T400:


Here's what they look like when cut shorter and used on some TWS. T200 size for the XM3 and T400 for the LP2s.


Unless you already have a good cutting tool, you can just mush them flat and use a razor blade



When I refer to APP tips, that means air pods pro replacement tips. I ordered some foam ones and removed the plastic center that mounts them to the oval shaped APP.



Once removed (peels off) they revert to round. They have a 4.5mm inner lip and 5.0mm bore, this is the small size:




___________________________



Also, there are now xelastec tips for the APP. I wonder if they can be de-cored and used on many TWS that need a short inner stem. Anyone try yet?


----------



## Francesco Montanari

chinmie said:


> in what way? the sound?


Sound and anc. Too bassy and recessed mids. Only soundstage Is decent


----------



## VICosPhi

Inear said:


> Bose earbuds hit the FCC. Announcement should be soon.
> 
> https://fccid.io/A94BL3R/External-P...35440-Bose-Model-BL3R-External-Photos-4877228


Bose just released a new Sound bar, looks like they are on a roll and we should see these TWS released very soon...


----------



## assassin10000 (Sep 2, 2020)

assassin10000 said:


> Yes, T400 refer to standard shape foam tips. T400 is the bore/center size. Tennmak has an improved version with a better foam and silicone like outer skin.
> 
> These are the different ones; T100, T200, T300 & T400:
> 
> ...



Well, looks like it should work. Asked on Amazon.


----------



## regancipher

Laethageal said:


> Since you own them, would you be able to measure the size of the plastic part holding the tip? Having midget sized ear holes, I have some hard time finding something that doesn't hurt, even for multiple hours after removing my current earbud I use to receive phone calls at job. Having the size, I could compare them to the size of mine to know if it's worth ordering for a test. If they sre similarly sized or bigger, it's a no go for me sadly.
> I secretly wish they are smaller size as phone call quality is seriously sub par on the Azally I use and people can't understand what I say when there is some cars around me or if there is too much wind (30km/h+ is usually too windy).



Which bit do you need measuring?


Laethageal said:


> Since you own them, would you be able to measure the size of the plastic part holding the tip? Having midget sized ear holes, I have some hard time finding something that doesn't hurt, even for multiple hours after removing my current earbud I use to receive phone calls at job. Having the size, I could compare them to the size of mine to know if it's worth ordering for a test. If they sre similarly sized or bigger, it's a no go for me sadly.
> I secretly wish they are smaller size as phone call quality is seriously sub par on the Azally I use and people can't understand what I say when there is some cars around me or if there is too much wind (30km/h+ is usually too windy).


----------



## Laethageal

regancipher said:


> Which bit do you need measuring?



The measure I was looking for is the one at 5.6mm
I left my unit charging in the truck at the job site and will compare it tomorrow, many thanks!


----------



## FYLegend (Sep 2, 2020)

Has anyone tried all three, TOZO NC9, 20Decebel and TaoTronics SoundLiberty 94? El Jefe said the TOZOs sounded better and has better ANC than the Taotronics while Gamesky said the TOZO and 20Decebel sound totally different. If this is the case then it might be that the components are by the same OEM but the drivers and tuning are different.

As for battery life I find it quite disappointing. I've been using them for less than 12 hours with ANC on, and the case is already depleted. I hope the replacement doesn't do this but I'm pretty sure they still rely on the case being powered to turn off the buds (why hasn't this changed? Out of all my TWS only Galaxy Buds+ can still power off when the case is depleted).


----------



## Tronsmart Official

Laethageal said:


> Thanks for the heads up. I'll avoid them👍
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Wish you good luck! We will pick up 10 participants! Maybe you are one of them! Let's wait together!


----------



## Firevortex (Sep 2, 2020)

Thought i share some info for the yet to be released flagship Nuarl N10 Pro release date late Sept
Comes with APP according to the dealer, it has a wider sound stage and more bass than the N6 Pro while retaining the detail.


----------



## Laethageal

Tronsmart Official said:


> Wish you good luck! We will pick up 10 participants! Maybe you are one of them! Let's wait together!


Meanwhile, are you able to give 1 spec I'm looking for, about the Apollo Bold?

What's the diameter of the plastic canal holding the tip of the IEM?
Is is bigger or smaller than the 5.6mm of the Edifier TWSNB2?


----------



## typhoon838

FYLegend said:


> I agree multipoint has its issues, but I can't see how these can't be addressed. I'm just surprised that at this day and age, almost nobody except Jabra has pushed for multipoint. I use a Dyplay headphone and usually don't get interruptions but there are occasions where the second device triggers interference of the device currently playing audio (for example, auto-play videos while browsing on my phone when listening to music through my laptop). Using the Note 9's S-Pen can also cause the same thing to happen.



Not sure if this is what you guys are talking about but with my Anbes 359 and Tranya T3s connected to my galaxy S8, I'd sometimes experience issues maintaining connection if I was already connected to my smartwatch and a pokemon go Plus (both bluetooth accessories)


----------



## georgelai57

dwells said:


> Looks like the $50 sale for the Fiil T1 XS is done, I should’ve just ordered a pair. Hell, even at $75, I’d order a pair if I knew for sure I could get them In time by the end of the month when I think I’m leaving for Turkey. Scarbir’s review showing the case being overall smaller and a cm thinner and talking about how the sound has gotten even better (not to mention how pretty they look in white) really sold me on a pair.
> 
> Amazon has the original Fiil T1 X on sale for $42 currently, which is an absolutely killer deal for anyone who doesn’t mind the bulky case. I wish the case weren’t such an issue for me, because the bang for buck is totally unbeatable.


It is still available at just under US$55 with free shipping to Singapore where I am.


----------



## VICosPhi

Quite happy with MTW2 currently but Nuarl N10 and Bose 700 would be fun to try out...


----------



## baskingshark

Hi friends, seems Aliexpress is having a wireless lucky bag thingy here: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001369178632.html

Haven't tried any of these gear, seems you can get 1 of the below 4 items with a purchase (with their % chances below). $48 USD seems a bit pricey for me and I haven't tried any whizzer gear. I think the last item 4 (A15 Pro) is not wireless, but do you folks think it is a worthwhile draw? Whizzer a good company for wireless stuff?


----------



## FYLegend

typhoon838 said:


> Not sure if this is what you guys are talking about but with my Anbes 359 and Tranya T3s connected to my galaxy S8, I'd sometimes experience issues maintaining connection if I was already connected to my smartwatch and a pokemon go Plus (both bluetooth accessories)


This is not so much an issue of multipoint as having too much Bluetooth traffic around you. The Realtek chip in last year's budget TWS is mediocre with my Note 9 as well. When I put my hand near the volume rocker or cover the top-left corner of the phone, the audio starts to stretch/alias and cut.  I'm not sure if this problem is only on the Note 9 but I thought at this day and age we should be over the Bluetooth "death grip". If I have 2 Bluetooth devices connected to my phone, things can get real ugly.


----------



## Dcell7

baskingshark said:


> Hi friends, seems Aliexpress is having a wireless lucky bag thingy here: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001369178632.html
> 
> Haven't tried any of these gear, seems you can get 1 of the below 4 items with a purchase (with their % chances below). $48 USD seems a bit pricey for me and I haven't tried any whizzer gear. I think the last item 4 (A15 Pro) is not wireless, but do you folks think it is a worthwhile draw? Whizzer a good company for wireless stuff?



For that price i would not recommend to take the gamble. I have got Whizzer OT1 TWS and those are real flimsy plastic and feels cheap. On scarbir.com you can find a review of B6.

The TP1 and B6 can probably be found near this price when there are Aliexpress sales going on.


----------



## jwong

The TP1 is actually cheaper than that surprise bag. So between that and having zero use for another Bluetooth speaker, that gives me an 80% chance of being disappointed!


----------



## Tronsmart Official

Laethageal said:


> Meanwhile, are you able to give 1 spec I'm looking for, about the Apollo Bold?
> 
> What's the diameter of the plastic canal holding the tip of the IEM?
> Is is bigger or smaller than the 5.6mm of the Edifier TWSNB2?


Hi, Laethageal,
Actually I have never measured it! But I can ask our PM to do so. Will tell you once I get the answer.


----------



## regancipher

georgelai57 said:


> It is still available at just under US$55 with free shipping to Singapore where I am.



my delivery date has moved to 24th October 

But yeah under $55 for me in the UK too. I found one shop with them in Europe, think it was Spain, but shipping was £12!


----------



## DB10

Hi @assassin10000, 



assassin10000 said:


> Yes, T400 refer to standard shape foam tips. T400 is the bore/center size. Tennmak has an improved version with a better foam and silicone like outer skin.
> 
> These are the different ones; T100, T200, T300 & T400:
> 
> ...



thanks for all your help and information, it is quite useful for such a novel person like me. Now I have already clearly understood the APP option, removing the inner part, it seems to be a good option.



assassin10000 said:


> Well, looks like it should work. Asked on Amazon.



It seems to be that it is possible to use the Xelastec on the other TWS, so that it could be a good option but they are so expensive...I think I will search for other options first. I will check the availability of each suggested model here in Amazon (I would like to receive them ASAP and the delivery times from Aliexpress are quite long...) and let you know my impressions.

Thanks again @assassin10000 for your help and photos of the setup!


----------



## martiniCZ

baskingshark said:


> Haven't tried any of these gear, seems you can get 1 of the below 4 items with a purchase (with their % chances below). $48 USD seems a bit pricey for me and I haven't tried any whizzer gear. I think the last item 4 (A15 Pro) is not wireless, but do you folks think it is a worthwhile draw? Whizzer a good company for wireless stuff?


If you can try TWS from Whizzer, better buy their Coopbuds C3. They have QCC3020 with big 10mm drivers and very good sound for it's sale price ($30). For me, Whizzer is a company full of liars and I hate them, but I still like the sound of C3, i's good buds with stupid case.


----------



## Caipirina

Laethageal said:


> Trying to finally get some IEM that fits my ear and decided to give a go to a few so I can compare what's on the market.
> Seen a few on Aliexpress, but I won't be getting 6 pairs and need to lower the amount of choice  I also wanted to test 1-2 higher end "known" brand, maybe the Klipsch?
> 
> 20 Decebels - DualRad ANC TWS
> ...


I am happy with the Apollo as well as the Tozo N9 which are pretty much the same as the 20 Decibel


----------



## Aevum

Im loving my N400, they are basically the Galaxy Buds Plus but taken to a higher level. 

But... ANC is next to usless and the tap/slide control dosnt work, the slide to change volume pauses my music 95/100 times.


----------



## regancipher (Sep 3, 2020)

Laethageal said:


> Meanwhile, are you able to give 1 spec I'm looking for, about the Apollo Bold?
> 
> What's the diameter of the plastic canal holding the tip of the IEM?
> Is is bigger or smaller than the 5.6mm of the Edifier TWSNB2?



The tips on the bold are oval. The widest on the X Axis pictured in yellow is 4.7mm, the tallest on the Y axis is 6.9mm.











The way the bud is angled means it sits neatly at the angle it needs to further back within your ear to maximise the microphone usability, given its an outside mic that isn't on the end of a stem, send sound waves in the natural direction through the ear canal and not put pressure on your concha.

It means I have to use smaller tips on these than I would other earbuds that sit further back, and can't use foam tips as that would be uncomfortable - it's the total opposite design to the likes of the tozo nc9 or Spunky beats which squeeze into your concha. At first I thought what the hell are they doing?! None of my foam tips fit. Then I found foam tips that did fit, but they sounded worse.

Once I got the loupe out and saw the oval I figured out why they had designed them this way and went back to using the stock medium tips, and they are perfect. It makes them really comfortable for all day use and is a little design feature that differentiates them from the rest of the chifi crowd, as the only other buds I've seen use this design are Klipsch and I think it was Panasonic IIRC. It's a brave move by Tronsmart but there is reasoning behind it and it works well for me at least. Just don't try shoving these things into your ear canal as even if it is wide enough, it will be uncomfortable both ergonomically and audibly. Also, without the right tips, I suspect the sound bouncing around the pinnae is causing the reports of over-heavy bass.


----------



## logiatype

Firevortex said:


> Thought i share some info for the yet to be released flagship Nuarl N10 Pro release date late Sept
> Comes with APP according to the dealer, it has a wider sound stage and more bass than the N6 Pro while retaining the detail.


Damnit was hoping for early Sept release lol.


----------



## Caipirina

jrice1996 said:


> Has anybody used the Nillikin Go or the Dyplay bqc35 for running? If so, how did they perform?


both well, both thudless.. Liking the Nilkin a bit better, as the Dyplay are a bit bulky .. also, no use for ANC while running as it amps up wind noise


----------



## jrice1996 (Sep 3, 2020)

So for running you’d say X12 > Nillikin > Dyplay?
How would you rank them in terms of sound quality while also factoring in bass? I know the Dyplay is the most bass heavy out of the 3, just curious about overall sound quality.
@Caipirina


----------



## logiatype

Nuarl N10 Connect app is live. Very excited!


----------



## Caipirina

jrice1996 said:


> So for running you’d say X12 > Nillikin > Dyplay?
> How would you rank them in terms of sound quality while also factoring in bass? I know the Dyplay is the most bass heavy out of the 3, just curious about overall sound quality.
> @Caipirina


probably same ranking as you mention ... If I had to select ONE running bud, I think I'd make it the X12 ... they are not super bassy, but have quite a punch, especially for a semi open earbud style. Overall their SQ has so far impressed me more than the other two 
Forgot your budget, but I keep finding the GBeans more and more interesting for running, but this will change soon again when I am back in tropical island climate and my head sweat will overwhelm the measly IPX2 of the GBeans. But soundwise I find them super engaging!


----------



## regancipher

Since the delivery date got put out on the FIIL T1XS, I tested the Taotronics SoundLiberty 79 today. 

Strange earbuds, avoid if you have thin ear canals. A 6mm tip wasn't enough for them, they decided to whack a thick plastic ring around it that dig into your skin giving excruciating pain. Shame.

The smart AI microphone thing was quite good though. Til you get outside.

https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/taotronics-soundliberty-79.24609/reviews


----------



## FYLegend (Sep 3, 2020)

Can anyone confirm whether the English FIIL app still doesn't have ambient sound for the T1XS?

Also, there's a FIIL T1 Pro available in China with ANC.

As an aside I've been looking for an over-ear ANC headphone with Type-C charging and ambient mode. So far only the TaoTronics SoundSurge 55 and upcoming Tranya H10 fill these criteria, but I feel like the latter is priced pretty high for a budget brand.


----------



## TWSMan

dwells said:


> Looks like the $50 sale for the Fiil T1 XS is done, I should’ve just ordered a pair. Hell, even at $75, I’d order a pair if I knew for sure I could get them In time by the end of the month when I think I’m leaving for Turkey. Scarbir’s review showing the case being overall smaller and a cm thinner and talking about how the sound has gotten even better (not to mention how pretty they look in white) really sold me on a pair.
> 
> Amazon has the original Fiil T1 X on sale for $42 currently, which is an absolutely killer deal for anyone who doesn’t mind the bulky case. I wish the case weren’t such an issue for me, because the bang for buck is totally unbeatable.





georgelai57 said:


> It is still available at just under US$55 with free shipping to Singapore where I am.





regancipher said:


> my delivery date has moved to 24th October
> 
> But yeah under $55 for me in the UK too. I found one shop with them in Europe, think it was Spain, but shipping was £12!


It’s available for $49.99 at Gearbest and both colours still available:



https://uk.gearbest.com/bluetooth-headphones/pp_3003945257685314.html?wid=2000001#goodsDetail


----------



## Francesco Montanari

FYLegend said:


> Can anyone confirm whether the English FIIL app still doesn't have ambient sound for the T1XS?
> 
> Also, there's a FIIL T1 Pro available in China with ANC.
> 
> As an aside I've been looking for an over-ear ANC headphone with Type-C charging and ambient mode. So far only the TaoTronics SoundSurge 55 and upcoming Tranya H10 fill these criteria, but I feel like the latter is priced pretty high for a budget brand.


I installed chinese app and with the help of gtranslate i configured them. Amazing plus, Amazing buds


----------



## Laethageal

regancipher said:


> The tips on the bold are oval. The widest on the X Axis pictured in yellow is 4.7mm, the tallest on the Y axis is 6.9mm.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Thanks. That's the info I was looking for.

eems like the cheap Azally I use have some similarly shaped tip, but the oval looks like roughly 5.75mm x 7.6mm. The bigger size might be the culprit as for the pain I get wearing it so the bold being smaller might be a decent guess for me!
Sorry for the estimate size, battery on my micrometer died and I don't have any spare around. Guessed it from the reading on the ruler on it. Will get a battery tomorrow or try to hackwire it to some AAA for the fun of having it work tonight and get the real measurement 

Seeing this got me wondering what was the issue with the Beoplay H5 I gave to my wife and measured the tips. They are round and under 5mm except for the lip holding the tip on. I tested them again and swapped a few tips and didn't find them as uncomfortable as I recall, but that might be due to the awful 30$ cad Azally I've been using lately. At this point I don't even know why I endured the Azally for so long.


----------



## MoshiMoshi

Hey guys, looking for some new iems as I had the soundpeats true dot in the past and after awhile they stopped producing sound out of one earphone and I could never manage to get it to work. Currently the Fiil t1 xs seems like a good deal, but I was wondering if anyone had a better suggestion. My budget is around $60, I listen to both very bassy and softer music so no sound signature preference. I'd like something I could wear at the gym and make calls with, and preferably good soundstage and isolation.


----------



## Laethageal (Sep 3, 2020)

Seems like I was somewhat off.
I couldn't wait and tried to somehow get the tool to work without a real battery.

The one currently hurting me is 5.87mm X 7.44mm

Please avoid laughing at the random battery/wire mess I did to get the measure tonight  It worked and took 1 minute, was all I wanted.


----------



## bedlamite

Time to go tip-rolling


----------



## helmutcheese

https://www.h1.soundpeatsaudio.com/

Still have not going to learnt 6hr per charge is not great today.


----------



## DynamicEars

how much is the soundpeats H1? specs looks great with 8.6mm DD + 1 Knowles BA


----------



## helmutcheese

No clue, you need to sign up for early deal.


----------



## chinmie

wow, this arrived rather quick! 
ordered it on 28th last month (and shipped on 31st), and today it has arrived. 
time to do some testing


----------



## assassin10000

chinmie said:


> wow, this arrived rather quick!
> ordered it on 28th last month (and shipped on 31st), and today it has arrived.
> time to do some testing



That was fast. 

Interested in how the gain/hiss/noise floor is. Also how well it handles 120-150Ω loads if you have anything that high.


----------



## galgofa

chinmie said:


> wow, this arrived rather quick!
> ordered it on 28th last month (and shipped on 31st), and today it has arrived.
> time to do some testing




Also just abt to place an order and pay. Please advice your opinion about this  BT20S PRO ? Is it worth to buy instead of normal TWS buds ?


----------



## chinmie

assassin10000 said:


> That was fast.
> 
> Interested in how the gain/hiss/noise floor is. Also how well it handles 120-150Ω loads if you have anything that high.



i was buying from Shopee instead of from AliExpress, it looks like Shopee has their own sending and receiving warehouse from china and my country, so the shipment was really fast and didn't have to go through usual customs. 

i immediately tested it with some of the most hissy IEMs when used with the older BT20S : multi BAs and Hybrids 


here i tested the DM6 (which has crazy high noise floor with BT20S) and ZSX (low but noticeable noise) 


I'm happy to report that even with the DM6, thry noise is barely heard. 

they seems to tune the output to about the level of the older BT20, but with cleaner sounding amp than the previous version. 

the highest impedanced detachable earphones i have is the old Svara L, which if I'm not mistaken would be 115 ohm. i can get regular listening level at about 75% volume, so still plenty of headroom for me personally. 

what they improve for me are:
-nice soft and flexible earhooks, no more metal wires inside them. i even tried it just for laughs with my ER4XR, and it can work!


-the detachable connector is a nice feature. it got me thinking of just getting a good and light cable (a Linum, perhaps?) with a straight 2 pin connectors, and i can just use the BT20S Pro and that one cable interchangeably. 
-the buttons now have a lighter pressure
-the case, while a bit bigger than the XM3 case, can also fit another set of IEM, a bit tight and require a bit of management, but definitely possible 


the only cons for me is the lack of volume controls, but otherwise I'd say this is a solid and satisfying product. 
now it's time to order some more connectors!


----------



## baskingshark

chinmie said:


> i was buying from Shopee instead of from AliExpress, it looks like Shopee has their own sending and receiving warehouse from china and my country, so the shipment was really fast and didn't have to go through usual customs.
> 
> i immediately tested it with some of the most hissy IEMs when used with the older BT20S : multi BAs and Hybrids
> 
> ...



Thanks for the impressions!
So it isn't the same device as the TRN BT20S with the bad hiss.

I wonder would it be more cost effective to use a 2 pin to MMCX adapter such as this: 


Rather than buy their $8 modular thingy. I bought these adapters at $2 for 1 pair on Aliexpress, and it works with the iBasso CF01, doesn't seem to degrade sound quality.


----------



## chinmie

galgofa said:


> Also just abt to place an order and pay. Please advice your opinion about this  BT20S PRO ? Is it worth to buy instead of normal TWS buds ?



now that depends on your usage scenario, though i must admid this charging case really does bridge the gap even more. 

some TWS still have points on features (ANC, Ambient mode, better IPX rating, pocketability, while going the BT20S route will get you variable (and more recognizable) sound


----------



## galgofa

Exactly my point to use set of available wire option to go wireless.


----------



## chinmie

baskingshark said:


> Thanks for the impressions!
> So it isn't the same device as the TRN BT20S with the bad hiss.
> 
> I wonder would it be more cost effective to use a 2 pin to MMCX adapter such as this:
> ...



definitely more cost effective, but I also consider that it would add extra length of the end connector, so it could potentially make it uncomfortable on the ears with certain IEMs.


----------



## assassin10000

baskingshark said:


> Thanks for the impressions!
> So it isn't the same device as the TRN BT20S with the bad hiss.
> 
> I wonder would it be more cost effective to use a 2 pin to MMCX adapter such as this:
> ...



I wish they also did the connectors straight style instead of angled. Would work better with certain IEMs & Earbuds.

Like this (*these are not real*):







galgofa said:


> Exactly my point to use set of available wire option to go wireless.



Yeah, if you've already got a set of wired IEMs that meet your sound requirements but want to go wireless the BT20/BT20S & BT20S Pro are good options.

With the caveats of not having the same ease of carry/pocketability, possibly less overall battery life (older models without charging case), poorer call quality and not having the fancier features (like ANC, Ambient, Auto-pause, etc).


If you just want to make a good pair of IEMs usable sans cord, they definitely work well for that.


----------



## Tronsmart Official

regancipher said:


> The tips on the bold are oval. The widest on the X Axis pictured in yellow is 4.7mm, the tallest on the Y axis is 6.9mm.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thank you very much for sharing this info! I was wondering what the size should I request. Just understand when I see you pics haha! I also got the size from our PM about Bold. 
@Laethageal  I got this one from our PM, but this is on the paper you know. I think @regancipher did good job! The error range is accetpable!


----------



## Kalli

Not sure if this is the correct thread, but I'll give it a try. 

Recently I bought a pair of wireless over-ear ANC headphones for daily usage. After trying out a lot of different ones I settled for the Shure AONIC 50.
Their sound is really flat/neutral, which I like a lot since I'm listening to classical music mostly. The ANC is pretty good and the overall package is quite nice. For daily usage they're too big for me though. Since the alternatives aren't good for what I'm looking for and the on-ears are weird, I thought about checking out some earbuds. I don't like the IEMs which go deep into the ear, I'm looking for actual "old school" earbuds (with foam) or something like "semi-in-ear" like the Air Pods Pro.

Can anyone please suggest something I could take a look at? I'll list a few things I would like to have:

Neutral sound (I really like the ones of the Shure AONIC 50)
Doesn't have to be full wireless (a cable between the earbuds is fine)
Android user here, so aptX HD or LDAC would be nice
ANC
Thanks in advance.


----------



## assassin10000 (Sep 4, 2020)

Kalli said:


> Not sure if this is the correct thread, but I'll give it a try.
> 
> Recently I bought a pair of wireless over-ear ANC headphones for daily usage. After trying out a lot of different ones I settled for the Shure AONIC 50.
> Their sound is really flat/neutral, which I like a lot since I'm listening to classical music mostly. The ANC is pretty good and the overall package is quite nice. For daily usage they're too big for me though. Since the alternatives aren't good for what I'm looking for and the on-ears are weird, I thought about checking out some earbuds. I don't like the IEMs which go deep into the ear, I'm looking for actual "old school" earbuds (with foam) or something like "semi-in-ear" like the Air Pods Pro.
> ...



Probably nothing 'flat' neutral in TWS form. Harman neutral like the AKG N400 & Samsung Buds+.

No aptx-hd or ldac for TWS, the bandwidth and chipsets aren't there yet for it. AAC & APT-X if well implemented do a good job though.


The majority are IEM style. For semi in ear or earbud style the current decent ones are:

Sabbat X12 pro (AAC) possibly closest to neutral.
Sabbat X12 Ultra (APT-X/AAC) boosted bass and somewhat V shaped.
Samsung Buds Live - colder tonality but surprisingly decent for having zero seal. ANC barely cuts out humming or droning to a minor degree, to be expected with no seal.

I've have/had all 3.



I like earbuds more than IEMs for most of my listening use.

If you want better quality sound I would recommend pairing a good detachable earbud like a Smabat ST-10 or ST-10S and a TWS adapter like the BT20S/BT20S pro or Fiio UTWS1 (if volume control needed).

Or use something like the Quedelix 5k, Fiio BTR3K or Radsone ES100 and earbuds of choice. These may support APT-X HD & LDAC as they have a bigger better SoC.


----------



## Kalli

assassin10000 said:


> Probably nothing 'flat' neutral in TWS form. Harman neutral like the AKG N400 & Samsung Buds+.
> 
> No aptx-hd or ldac for TWS, the bandwidth and chipsets aren't there yet for it. AAC & APT-X if well implemented do a good job though.
> 
> ...


Thanks a lot for that nice and fast answer. And again so many options. 

So, if I don't want in-ear I rather go for semi-in-ear over earbuds in general, because their sound quality is better?
And aptX should be fine for on the go I think. Just AAC is a bit painful with Android.


----------



## assassin10000

Kalli said:


> Thanks a lot for that nice and fast answer. And again so many options.
> 
> So, if I don't want in-ear I rather go for semi-in-ear over earbuds in general, because their sound quality is better?
> And aptX should be fine for on the go I think. Just AAC is a bit painful with Android.



Nah, earbuds sound better than semi in ear. Plus there are a variety of sound signatures available.

You'll find (way) more info here:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/


----------



## Kalli

assassin10000 said:


> Nah, earbuds sound better than semi in ear. Plus there are a variety of sound signatures available.
> 
> You'll find (way) more info here:
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/


Ok, thanks a lot again.


----------



## galgofa

By the way, what you think about Ibasso option of aptx 
Ali link


----------



## Kalli

Shure also has a pair of those. Any thoughts on them?
https://www.shure.com/en-US/products/accessories/rmce-tw1

Are earbuds, IEMs, ... connectors all the same normally?

In general my experience with Shure and the AONIC 50 was extremely good. Best mail support I've ever had (in germany).


----------



## baskingshark

galgofa said:


> By the way, what you think about Ibasso option of aptx
> Ali link



The iBasso CF01 is being discussed in this headfi thread in more detail if you are interested: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/ibasso-cf01-cable-free-bt-mmcx-adapter-for-any-mmcx-iem.938751/

It is one of my favourite BT adapters in terms of sound quality and the charging case. I'm not sure if the recently released TRN BT20S Pro (which I'm hoping to buy when it is cheaper) can give it a run for the money in view of the charging case, but FWIW, here are some pros and cons of the iBasso CF01:

*Pros*
Comfortable, light, good build.
Neutralish sound - doesn't colour frequencies, and potrays the connected IEM as it is.
Excellent sound quality.
Charging case can fit large IEM inside, has airbags to cushion precious IEMs.
Up to 24h playback with charging case.
Supports wireless charging.
Dedicated amp for better headroom, dynamics.
Strong and easy BT connectivity and range. No dropouts for BT.
Has a mic to take calls.
IPX5 water resistance.

*Cons:*
No volume control.
No LDAC or aptX LL/HD.
Hisses with highly sensitive IEMs (generally not noticeable when music starts).
MMCX only (but u can use 2 pin to MMCX adapters with no issue).


----------



## galgofa

baskingshark said:


> here are some pros and cons of the iBasso CF01:



Thanks, missed it up, however if someone have had listen both how is music quality of BT20S PRO to compare with iBasso ? The price is double, and  MMCX pin make it useless to buy except music is far better then competitors.


----------



## jant71 (Sep 4, 2020)

Hmmm, new stuff from JBL...
https://news.jbl.com/en-CEU/191029-...ing-and-ipx7-to-its-new-true-wireless-earbuds



Not bad for $149 featurewise with ANC, what they call smart ambient, Qi charging, IPX7, and their TWS+ called dual connect + sync. Of course how they sound and perform will dictate if they are a good value or not in the end.

JBL Reflect mini. Same features except no Qi charging but they have a sports design with the ear fins...



Perhaps these will have a bit of a different tuning for sports/the gym with more bass.


----------



## TK33

Kalli said:


> Shure also has a pair of those. Any thoughts on them?
> https://www.shure.com/en-US/products/accessories/rmce-tw1
> 
> Are earbuds, IEMs, ... connectors all the same normally?
> ...



Here is a thread for the Shure TW1.  After being recalled, I think people only started getting them again recently but first impressions seem pretty positive.

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/shure-rmce-tw1-shure-cuts-the-cord.928960/


----------



## dasadab

galgofa said:


> By the way, what you think about Ibasso option of aptx
> Ali link


I bought them when they first came out.  They are much much much much much much better than my—Sony XM3s, Senns MTW1, Nuarl N6 Pros. Details:  Cleaner, crisper, wide sound stage, ability to handle soft and slam without sounding thin.   Mine are paired with Ibasso T04s.  See twister9 reviews for less expensive pairing options.  I have no affiliation, just a consumer.  They are also super light.


----------



## Weendog (Sep 4, 2020)

bedlamite said:


> Time to go tip-rolling


Too funny; I got the same exact tips in the mail today, too. Using them on my XM3, I REALLY like the Acoustune's. The Xelastec's are just okay


----------



## FYLegend

Does anyone find fast-chargers to degrade charge performance of their TWS cases? I see many brands advising to only use 5V/1A chargers, but in my opinion this is absurd because most of my wall bricks now are quick-charge.

Today I used my Taotronics SoundLiberty 94 for no more than 3 hours and the battery is low. The 20Decebel app claims one side has 40% while the other only has 22%.


----------



## jant71 (Sep 4, 2020)

FYLegend said:


> Does anyone find fast-chargers to degrade charge performance of their TWS cases? I see many brands advising to only use 5V/1A chargers, but in my opinion this is absurd because most of my wall bricks now are quick-charge.
> 
> Today I used my Taotronics SoundLiberty 94 for no more than 3 hours and the battery is low. The 20Decebel app claims one side has 40% while the other only has 22%.



That is basic battery conditioning. Slower lower amp charging prolongs battery life and fast charging is gonna degrade and kill them faster. Of course there is new battery tech that is not in the devices yet that charges really fast and is not so harmful like Qualcomms...
https://www.forbes.com/sites/daveal...ro-to-100-percent-in-15-minutes/#341af80e5158

But for current stuff slower is better and safer. Remember heat is always the enemy.


----------



## DynamicEars

dasadab said:


> I bought them when they first came out.  They are much much much much much much better than my—Sony XM3s, Senns MTW1, Nuarl N6 Pros. Details:  Cleaner, crisper, wide sound stage, ability to handle soft and slam without sounding thin.   Mine are paired with Ibasso T04s.  See twister9 reviews for less expensive pairing options.  I have no affiliation, just a consumer.  They are also super light.



Hey you were comparing $600 sets with $150-250 sets literally 😆


----------



## webvan

FIIL T1X review on rtings : https://www.rtings.com/headphones/reviews/fiil/t1x-true-wireless
They quite like them but point out their poor isolation when it comes to lower sounds. Apparently they didn't get a model with the infamous "hiss" like several of us here !

On another note I nearly killed my trusty X12 after I put them back in the box after running in the heat...the foamy bit was wet and one of the charging pins got corroded...some scratching later on the pin and the contact on the X12 and they're back in action, phew !


----------



## bedlamite

Weendog said:


> Too funny; I got the same exact tips in the mail today, too. Using them on my XM3, I REALLY like the Acoustune's. The Xelastec's are just okay


Listening to the Acoustunes on my n400, really nice. Takes a bit of the edge off, adds quite a bit of bass. Makes the n400 lose a bit of their uniqueness but overall sound is much more suitable for long listening sessions. 

I went a size down in the Xelas and they're still too big for my ears . They kind of fit on my XM3s (helps that they're super grippy, the guys in the eartips thread weren't kidding around yikes). Momentum 2s are an instant fail. Grudgingly ordered a pair of S sized tips.


----------



## FYLegend

jant71 said:


> That is basic battery conditioning. Slower lower amp charging prolongs battery life and fast charging is gonna degrade and kill them faster. Of course there is new battery tech that is not in the devices yet that charges really fast and is not so harmful like Qualcomms...
> https://www.forbes.com/sites/daveal...ro-to-100-percent-in-15-minutes/#341af80e5158
> 
> But for current stuff slower is better and safer. Remember heat is always the enemy.


In my experience the device should be able to safely draw the necessary power if needed. I'm sure Samsung would expect you to charge the Galaxy Buds/Buds+/Live through their fast chargers, although from using these I find the Buds+ case battery is pretty poor. There might be a problem if you get an unofficial "fast charger" - some are built to the specification of USB-PD or Qualcomm Quick Charge 2/3.0 but not certified.

I received my replacement for the Taotronics SoundLiberty 94 today. There is still a slight hiss on the left bud when ANC is off but it is quite faint. Unfortunately it becomes more noticeable when turning on ambient mode. Will be testing out the battery in coming days.


----------



## marcusd

Our review of the budget Strauss & Wagner SW-TW401 TWS is posted from Louis.

https://headfonics.com/strauss-wagner-sw-tw401-review/


----------



## webvan (Sep 5, 2020)

An update on the Panasonic RZ-S500, it seems mine have battery drainage problem, both the earbuds and the case, as I found both completely flat after a week without touching them. Anyone else notice that ? Also I'm finding that the fit is not as good as with the Amazon Echo Buds or Sennheiser MTW2 that really sit flat against the concha and provide great comfort and isolation while the Panasonic leave a slight gap.

Oh and I don't think anyone else has commented on the "popping" I get in ANC mode when there are very slight pressure changes, like a bump on the road when you're a passenger in a car ?


----------



## regancipher

FYLegend said:


> Can anyone confirm whether the English FIIL app still doesn't have ambient sound for the T1XS?
> 
> Also, there's a FIIL T1 Pro available in China with ANC.
> 
> As an aside I've been looking for an over-ear ANC headphone with Type-C charging and ambient mode. So far only the TaoTronics SoundSurge 55 and upcoming Tranya H10 fill these criteria, but I feel like the latter is priced pretty high for a budget brand.



And they stopped selling the 55's 

The only pair of Taotronics I've either rated reasonably highly or don't find incredibly uncomfortable!


----------



## Caipirina

Live greetings from 30.000ft where I will be trying to test out all my ANC TWS today.
On first round: this is going to be tricky. It seems airplane rumble is the first thing ANC buds have to learn and learn well. Besides the GBeans they all prove to be useful on this flight (regarding ANC, the GBeans are still lovely, but their ‘noise reduction’ and less passive isolation is just something else) 

It also kinda maddens me how well the APP do ANC, while sounding annoyingly mediocre. Nothing wrong, just no ummphh, and thus is what I need on a flight. 

Will share more findings later. If the satellite internet does not break vanish again ...


----------



## baskingshark

Caipirina said:


> Live greetings from 30.000ft where I will be trying to test out all my ANC TWS today.
> On first round: this is going to be tricky. It seems airplane rumble is the first thing ANC buds have to learn and learn well. Besides the GBeans they all prove to be useful on this flight (regarding ANC, the GBeans are still lovely, but their ‘noise reduction’ and less passive isolation is just something else)
> 
> It also kinda maddens me how well the APP do ANC, while sounding annoyingly mediocre. Nothing wrong, just no ummphh, and thus is what I need on a flight.
> ...



Do u guys who use ANC wireless gear get nauseous or giddy with ANC on in planes and trains? I experience that sometimes, I think it's cause of the sound waves being generated to cancel external sounds that put some pressure in the inner ear. Strangely I don't get the ANC giddiness when in a non moving place.


----------



## regancipher

Tronsmart Official said:


> Thank you very much for sharing this info! I was wondering what the size should I request. Just understand when I see you pics haha! I also got the size from our PM about Bold.
> @Laethageal  I got this one from our PM, but this is on the paper you know. I think @regancipher did good job! The error range is accetpable!


Thanks! Cheap calipers for you  my good ones have been in self-storage since lockdown and I haven't bothered to go and pick them up since, if I go the woman there will keep me talking half a day and I can never lose half a day at the moment...unless it's testing headphones  then anything goes haha 

I genuinely think it's a big plus and a testament to how good the ANC is. It is clarified quite clearly in the user guide but of course, nobody really pays attention to it.

As I said here and my instagram post, the oval is nothing new, but the overall design including the oval is. I remember opening the case and thinking blimey these are going to be way too bulky. I couldn't have been more wrong. They are deceptively light, barely noticeable with the right tips. A very well thought-out design that eeks out every bit of performance from the chip, just like the Spunky Beats did, and the Onyx Free, just in a different way


----------



## Caipirina

baskingshark said:


> Do u guys who use ANC wireless gear get nauseous or giddy with ANC on in planes and trains? I experience that sometimes, I think it's cause of the sound waves being generated to cancel external sounds that put some pressure in the inner ear. Strangely I don't get the ANC giddiness when in a non moving place.


Never heard of a correlation between ANC & mood swings  I do know that some binaural sounds allegedly can cause giddiness or calm, maybe that has something to do with that. Maybe it’s just the circumstances... first I heard ANC I was just giddy about that awesome technology!!!


----------



## regancipher

baskingshark said:


> Do u guys who use ANC wireless gear get nauseous or giddy with ANC on in planes and trains? I experience that sometimes, I think it's cause of the sound waves being generated to cancel external sounds that put some pressure in the inner ear. Strangely I don't get the ANC giddiness when in a non moving place.


Yeah, I get it with really strong ANC like Bose and Sony over-ears. I remember trying on my first set of WH-1000's and thinking wow, these are out of this world! Then got on the plane and had crazy vertigo. 

I actually still get it occssionally with Taotronics TT-55 which ironically use the Sony chip (supposedly) but decent in-ear ANC sets like the Apollo Bold and Edifier TWS NB2 don't have that issue.

I've looked into it a fair bit and your suspicion summarises it pretty well. Our ears and brains are used to processing sound a certain way, when you overload them with different stimuli it confuses them and can precipitate in a number of side effects - motion sickness, nausea, vertigo etc. Some people get used to, some don't.

One way that has reportedly helped some users is 'easing into' active noise cancellation. So if you have an ambient slider, like the Edifier app does, periodically reducing ambient sound can graduate your brain's learning response to processing this disequilibrium and give it chance to, essentially, acclimatise. This hasn't worked for me though.


----------



## Toom

Got the Samsung Live buds this week and they fit perfectly for me and are so discreet. Did a gym run earlier today and they stayed put no issues at all.

They sound a little bass, but through my S10 Plus, they are decent enough for me to keep.


----------



## voicemaster

dasadab said:


> I bought them when they first came out.  They are much much much much much much better than my—Sony XM3s, Senns MTW1, Nuarl N6 Pros. Details:  Cleaner, crisper, wide sound stage, ability to handle soft and slam without sounding thin.   Mine are paired with Ibasso T04s.  See twister9 reviews for less expensive pairing options.  I have no affiliation, just a consumer.  They are also super light.


You can't compare pure TWS like N6P, XM3, MTW1, etc with IEM + Bluetooth module combo. My TRN BT20S + KZ ZSX combo blew 99% of my TWS out of the water.


----------



## dasadab

DynamicEars said:


> Hey you were comparing $600 sets with $150-250 sets literally 😆


I know. That’s why I suggested the twister9 review.  Less expensive pairings reviewed that still gives great sound. Also, by the time you end up buying two or three pair of $200 sets, you might as well get something great. 
For convenience, I still love the “pop and bop” convenience of traditional wireless IEMs.


----------



## voicemaster

dasadab said:


> I know. That’s why I suggested the twister9 review.  Less expensive pairings reviewed that still gives great sound.* Also, by the time you end up buying two or three pair of $200 sets, you might as well get something great.*
> For convenience, I still love the “pop and bop” convenience of traditional wireless IEMs.


The bolded part doesn't work on Head-fi lol. You think you done with $3000+ headphone? Nope never lol.


----------



## Caipirina (Sep 5, 2020)

Caipirina said:


> Live greetings from 30.000ft where I will be trying to test out all my ANC TWS today.
> On first round: this is going to be tricky. It seems airplane rumble is the first thing ANC buds have to learn and learn well. Besides the GBeans they all prove to be useful on this flight (regarding ANC, the GBeans are still lovely, but their ‘noise reduction’ and less passive isolation is just something else)
> 
> It also kinda maddens me how well the APP do ANC, while sounding annoyingly mediocre. Nothing wrong, just no ummphh, and thus is what I need on a flight.
> ...



So far I think my fav for traveling on airplane are the Panasonic RZ500S ... best noise canceling, even beating the XM3 at least in the plane noise department. Maybe the XM3 are better with coffee shop background... sound & connection are also awesome. The only thing I wish them to fix in an update: touch lock! Every time I want to readjust the buds, I pause them.

close second (regarding ANC), with a tad more dynamic / bass in their soundprofile (and overall volume, which can be an issue in planes), I’d take the Apollo... though I am still not 100% settled on the fit. Need to do some more tip rolling.
but even the Tozo & theDyplay are doing a mighty fine job.


----------



## webvan (Sep 5, 2020)

What ?! The Tozo have like...zero ANC  Now they do have good passive isolation but it takes "eagle ears" to notice the difference between ANC On/Off and you can' only switch with the 20Decebel app, not from the buds (well it is off when you take it out of the case so you can toggle it once, after it's ANC/Ambient).


----------



## phaeton70

Caipirina said:


> So far I think my fav for traveling on airplane are the Panasonic RZ500S ... best noise canceling, even beating the XM3 at least in the plane noise department. Maybe the XM3 are better with coffee shop background... sound & connection are also awesome. The only thing I wish them to fix in an update: touch lock! Every time I want to readjust the buds, I pause them.
> 
> close second (regarding ANC), with a tad more dynamic / bass in their soundprofile (and overall volume, which can be an issue in planes), I’d take the Apollo...



same here, everytime I adjust the Pana (frequently given the not so perfect fit in my ear) the player pauses... argh.... 
agree also on the rating, Pana are (by a hair) my favorite, but the Apollo are very close  to the point that I use them more often because they fit much better in my ears....


----------



## Francesco Montanari

webvan said:


> What ?! The Tozo have like...zero ANC  Now they do have good passive isolation but it takes "eagle ears" to notice the difference between ANC On/Off and you can' only switch with the 20Decebel app, not from the buds (well it is off when you take it out of the case so you can toggle it once, after it's ANC/Ambient).


I really can't understand why I bought 20decebel. The worst pair of tws I own


----------



## jant71

Philips ANC...


----------



## typhoon838

Francesco Montanari said:


> I really can't understand why I bought 20decebel. The worst pair of tws I own



Why?


----------



## mikp

jant71 said:


> Philips ANC...




No wonder it looks like an alibaba rebadge (the case) since TPV now has the philips license.


----------



## FYLegend

regancipher said:


> And they stopped selling the 55's
> 
> The only pair of Taotronics I've either rated reasonably highly or don't find incredibly uncomfortable!


Whaat, I still saw it listed last week now there's nothing. How did you find it? I hope they make a successor with a brighter tuning.


----------



## Mlaihk

Good for you!  
Had mine for a little over a week and I can say that the buds live (and also buds+ for that matter) needs some burning in.  My buds live was very bassy and treble was muffled out of the box and after a week, they are way better.  I compared my burnt in one with a brand new pair of live and can tell the difference........

But in terms of treble details, the buds live is still slightly shy of the buds+, but I guess tuning is a bit difference, and the buds+ does have TWO DDs.

Also, buds+ is very sensitive to the tips used with it, so it was a great tips rolling tws set.




Toom said:


> Got the Samsung Live buds this week and they fit perfectly for me and are so discreet. Did a gym run earlier today and they stayed put no issues at all.
> 
> They sound a little bass, but through my S10 Plus, they are decent enough for me to keep.


----------



## voicemaster

Ordered trn bt20s pro and the estimated delivery time is 10/2 so 2 months away.


----------



## Toom

voicemaster said:


> Ordered trn bt20s pro and the estimated delivery time is 10/2 so 2 months away.



Isn't that less than a month?


----------



## chinmie

voicemaster said:


> Ordered trn bt20s pro and the estimated delivery time is 10/2 so 2 months away.



i hope you'll like it, i already ordered two more connectors for it


----------



## FYLegend

webvan said:


> What ?! The Tozo have like...zero ANC  Now they do have good passive isolation but it takes "eagle ears" to notice the difference between ANC On/Off and you can' only switch with the 20Decebel app, not from the buds (well it is off when you take it out of the case so you can toggle it once, after it's ANC/Ambient).


Good but not super passive isolation, I'd say on par or slightly better than Galaxy Buds+. I have the Taotronics 94, not sure if the ANC is exactly the same but it does well for removing mid and low frequencies, but not the deepest frequencies or high frequencies. Announcements and the train screeching are still quite noticeable - I would say the latter is a more jarring experience than usual because you're missing the low frequencies.


----------



## Caipirina

webvan said:


> What ?! The Tozo have like...zero ANC  Now they do have good passive isolation but it takes "eagle ears" to notice the difference between ANC On/Off and you can' only switch with the 20Decebel app, not from the buds (well it is off when you take it out of the case so you can toggle it once, after it's ANC/Ambient).


I am far from eagle ears. But droning plane sound, I very well hear the diff of anc on / off with the Tozo


----------



## smith

Anyone have the HiBy WH3 TWS yet...


----------



## Caipirina

Anyone here has the Mifo O7? I am a bit stumped that the applied tips are way too flat to get them into my ears (the O7 are closer to a stem based design than the O5, which makes it impossible to jam them more in) ... I found some very nice longer tips and I get a good fit. And sure enough, they no longer fit in the case. Bummer ...


----------



## Mouseman

Does anyone with the Apollo Bolds have a clipping on deep bass sections at 3/4 volume and up? I got mine about a week ago, and I've noticed it on songs like "The Reaper" by the Chainsmokers. I've never had this happen before on any of my decent IEMs, not sure if they need more burn in, a better deal, or if I got a bad pair.


----------



## voicemaster

Toom said:


> Isn't that less than a month?


It 11/2 not 10/2 my bad. November


----------



## phaeton70

Mouseman said:


> Does anyone with the Apollo Bolds have a clipping on deep bass sections at 3/4 volume and up? I got mine about a week ago, and I've noticed it on songs like "The Reaper" by the Chainsmokers. I've never had this happen before on any of my decent IEMs, not sure if they need more burn in, a better deal, or if I got a bad pair.



happening also with anc off?


----------



## The Apostle

Responding to the Jabra 65t while swimming.  

I tested this weekend.  Swam with them both Sat and Sun.  Full submersion (only about 1-2 ft) but zero issues.  



The Apostle said:


> Well, holy crap.  I have 2 pairs... Might just say screw it and hop in the water with one pair.  Anyone else try?


----------



## whistlebug23

I made a relatively invalid attempt to search all 1700 pages before writing this, so I apologize for any redundancy.

I personally am in the middle.. My biggest gripe against TW is that, in my experience, they are highly subject to interference. My 75t are great for biking and hiking, but are very prone to skips and connectivity issues indoors. The sound is fine, but of course I'm not trying to steam 24/44.1 while on the bike.


----------



## georgelai57

The Apostle said:


> Responding to the Jabra 65t while swimming.
> 
> I tested this weekend.  Swam with them both Sat and Sun.  Full submersion (only about 1-2 ft) but zero issues.


Hi, where was the source (phone/DAP) places at? I’ve failed to get anything reasonable within 5 meters of the iPhone source. Thanks.


----------



## Tronsmart Official

Hello, all there,
Tronsmart Apollo Bold review program participating date will end on Sep 10. Please don't forget to join! 
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/【award-review】tronsmart-apollo-bold-review-program.940374/


----------



## Aerosphere

RHA changed the signature of the TrueConnect. It has a more balanced curve now.
https://www.headfonia.com/rha-trueconnect-2-review/


----------



## Robius

Pulled the trigger for Haylou T16. I'm mainly using tws iems for cycling and it has wind noise reduction mode so that's why I bought them.

www.aliexpress.com/item/4001299264937.html


----------



## webvan

"Wind Noise Reduction" ? In my experience good passive isolation is what works best for cycling (Bomaker SiFi II for instance) as anything involving microphones generates noise, the XM3s for instance have a "wind noise reduction" ANC setting but you're better off just turning ANC off.


----------



## Robius

webvan said:


> "Wind Noise Reduction" ? In my experience good passive isolation is what works best for cycling (Bomaker SiFi II for instance) as anything involving microphones generates noise, the XM3s for instance have a "wind noise reduction" ANC setting but you're better off just turning ANC off.


I don't know but they especially mention on ads that outdoor mode is for wind noise with ANC on during running or cycling.


----------



## Mlaihk

Robius said:


> I don't know but they especially mention on ads that outdoor mode is for wind noise with ANC on during running or cycling.


If it is like what the TrackAir+ Special Edition has, then the wind noise reduction really works.


----------



## webvan (Sep 7, 2020)

What have they done on the LTA+ SE ? Possibly just a "preset" because on the LTA+ you could not turn off ANC at all and you had to set it to 11 (in the app so it was a nuisance) to mitigate wind noise, I'd discussed that at length last year although there was little interest with so few owners. What's strange is that they don't tout that feature for the "non-SE" edition !

Again, in my experience good passive isolation works perfectly to block wind noise, as I found out again with the SiFi II a few minutes ago with a 150 watts fan blasting air at me


----------



## TWSMan

Anyone looking for some earbuds predominantly for calls, the Tranya T10 has been one of the best ones I've used so far.  Spent most of the last 2 weeks in Teams/Zoom meetings and the calls have been crystal clear.  Also been told that it's been clear on the receiving end too and the cvc blocks out alot of the background noise during these calls.  I'm surprised it picks up the voice so well given it's not a stem type style which tends to do better.

Playing music, I would say they aren't bad given the price - it has bass but not too heavy, mids are good and highs are ok.

Currently on Amazon UK for less than £30 (with £10 voucher), it's abit of a bargain for something that can last 8hrs and support wireless charging too.


----------



## Dobrescu George

for those curious about TWS, I made a video review about the newly released Hiby WH3 from @HiByMusic


----------



## Mouseman

phaeton70 said:


> happening also with anc off?


It's most pronounced with ANC or ambient on, but I still can hear it with them off.


----------



## The Apostle

georgelai57 said:


> Hi, where was the source (phone/DAP) places at? I’ve failed to get anything reasonable within 5 meters of the iPhone source. Thanks.


Android and placed in my pool bag next to a lounge chair.  I can easily go 25 feet before any cutouts.


----------



## Caipirina

I think I am done with TWS again .. I am waiting for the Bose ANC .. no idea how I would get them .. and that's it ... 

(I am aware that I said pretty much the same thing last fall  ) 

one can try ...


----------



## phaeton70

Mouseman said:


> It's most pronounced with ANC or ambient on, but I still can hear it with them off.



umh... sorry, then I don't know how to help. 
I cannot hear any clipping, but must say I don't listen to such high volume, depending on the track I find half volume is even too much... tipically listen to 1/3 or lower


----------



## regancipher

TWSMan said:


> Anyone looking for some earbuds predominantly for calls, the Tranya T10 has been one of the best ones I've used so far.  Spent most of the last 2 weeks in Teams/Zoom meetings and the calls have been crystal clear.  Also been told that it's been clear on the receiving end too and the cvc blocks out alot of the background noise during these calls.  I'm surprised it picks up the voice so well given it's not a stem type style which tends to do better.
> 
> Playing music, I would say they aren't bad given the price - it has bass but not too heavy, mids are good and highs are ok.
> 
> Currently on Amazon UK for less than £30 (with £10 voucher), it's abit of a bargain for something that can last 8hrs and support wireless charging too.


I have to agree. I found them too uncomfortable for prolonged use, but the microphone is far better than most earbuds and any at that price.

Also good are the Boltune BT-BH024 and the Edifier TWS NB2.

I bought the mpow m12 for a laugh yesterday as Scarbir seemed to rate them quite highly. Think he must have been seduced by the card inside promising free goodies for 5 star reviews because they are absolute trash 

That's a bit harsh. They're £18 for a reason. The sound is surprisingly not the worst I've heard but just don't expect anyone to hear you in case you get a call.

Still no update on the tracking on my FIIL T1XS so I ordered another set from another seller. And the Whizzer E3. And the Alien Secret QCC010. I dunno why I bother, I know I'm going to end up with a load of crappy airbuds I can't use prime to return!


----------



## FYLegend

webvan said:


> "Wind Noise Reduction" ? In my experience good passive isolation is what works best for cycling (Bomaker SiFi II for instance) as anything involving microphones generates noise, the XM3s for instance have a "wind noise reduction" ANC setting but you're better off just turning ANC off.


The Galaxy Buds+ has a wind filter in its ambient sound, even though it doesn't have ANC. It feels weird in some situations like there's something like ANC going on removing the low frequencies but I'm still hearing things around me. I personally hate it, because it causes constant louder sounds to abruptly pan left and right such that you lose the proper stereo image (feels very unsafe with cars passing by). I think it's very possible Samsung planned on implementing ANC in the Buds+ as some rumours suggested, but decided against it.


----------



## chinmie

Mouseman said:


> Does anyone with the Apollo Bolds have a clipping on deep bass sections at 3/4 volume and up? I got mine about a week ago, and I've noticed it on songs like "The Reaper" by the Chainsmokers. I've never had this happen before on any of my decent IEMs, not sure if they need more burn in, a better deal, or if I got a bad pair.



i did notice clipping/distortions on the bass, but it happened only when i try Eq-ing down/removing the bass too much using the Wavelet, so i thought it was because of the Wavelet's DSP compressing the sound
i haven't notice it with no EQ, but I'll give a listen to that song you mentioned and report back later


----------



## chinmie

@Mouseman so i listened to the song. unfortunately, with the volume maxed on the unit, i can only go to 40% volume on my phone. 
the only distortion i can hear on the bass is not from digital clipping, but more like intentional use of overdrive effect on the bass (more apparent on minute 1:00). and that particular overdrive, i can hear it with any TWS/IEMs that I've tested on that song (my Sony XM3s, BGVP DM6, TinHifi T2+) 

with the Wavelet app that i described earlier, it's more of a digital clipping/ white noise crackle sound when i apply to much bass reduction


----------



## Mouseman

chinmie said:


> @Mouseman so i listened to the song. unfortunately, with the volume maxed on the unit, i can only go to 40% volume on my phone.
> the only distortion i can hear on the bass is not from digital clipping, but more like intentional use of overdrive effect on the bass (more apparent on minute 1:00). and that particular overdrive, i can hear it with any TWS/IEMs that I've tested on that song (my Sony XM3s, BGVP DM6, TinHifi T2+)
> 
> with the Wavelet app that i described earlier, it's more of a digital clipping/ white noise crackle sound when i apply to much bass reduction


OK, thanks for checking and for others who have tried. I'm used to the overdrive on that song, but I have been hearing that digital clipping and it's not pleasant. I've also noticed it on Sacriligeum I by Zeal and Ardor, which is my bass torture track for new gear.

I hadn't thought of it until now, but my listening so far has been on my iPhone with zero EQ. I'll try it with the R5 both streaming and local in different codecs, etc. to see if it's reproduced. It's just odd that I don't hear it with the L2Ps, APPs or anything else.


----------



## Inear

Leaked marketing material for Bose 700 earbuds:



Release is probably soon.


----------



## VZWDJ

If anyone is interested, still available at great prices: Pixel Buds 2nd Gen , Tronsmart Apollo Bold , 2020 Mifo 07 Dynamic , and Mobvoi Tickansa ANC True Wireless Headphones...PM me if interested in any... Thanks!


----------



## TheNikB (Sep 8, 2020)

Hi everyone,
First time poster here but have been browsing for a while.

*I just picked up a pair of the Sennheiser Wireless Momentum 2 but I’m a bit underwhelmed with them.* The sound quality is good, but perhaps not “excellent”? Also the max volume is definitely on the low side for me and is an issue quite a few others report.

I usually do a bit more research before buying but this was a rather quick buy after reading some reviews.

I listen to a variety of music but 60% of the time hip hop & electronic.

*Any recommendations for better wireless earbuds with ANC? I find the transparent mode on the ANC models very useful since with regular noise isolating earbuds I must remove them too often in situations. I would like to keep it under $500 but if there’s something really exceptional I could go higher maybe ~$1000. Of course if the difference between a $300 set and $1000 set is minuscule for a non audiophile, I’d rather save the money. *

I would prefer true wireless but am open if something else is really worth it. I have also seen others but separate Bluetooth transmitters and earbuds but as far as I’ve seen there would be no ANC but maybe I’m wrong and got a bit overwhelmed with info.

Sorry for the long post but I’d really appreciate your guys expertise. I posted this in the “newbie” section and a senior member advised me to post here.


----------



## KevInquisition

TheNikB said:


> *I just picked up a pair of the Sennheiser Wireless Momentum 3 but I’m a bit underwhelmed with them.*



Hey there if you're looking for true wireless with ANC your options are a bit limited but in my experience the best sounding of the bunch is easily the Sony WF1000xm3. It's not exceptionally clear like a pair of custom IEMs would be, but no product that has ANC will be. I think it's the best blend of sound quality and convenience you can hope for in the wireless ANC space, and would be a really good upgrade from the sennheisers, which in my opinion are horrendous for their price. Hope this was helpful.


----------



## BigZ12

It seems there's a lot of exciting new TWSs upcoming? 
Can someone list the most anticapated ones that's soon up for release? (and if any have been released the last week or so)

Any chance for adding the following info: 
ANC: Yes/No
Ambient/Transparency mode: Yes/No 
Codecs
Battery life: Buds/Case


----------



## BigZ12 (Sep 8, 2020)

TheNikB said:


> *I just picked up a pair of the Sennheiser Wireless Momentum 3 but I’m a bit underwhelmed with them.*


Do you mean Sennheiser Momentum True Wireless 2?? Or do you talk about an over-ear headphone, then you are in the wrong forum.

If you mean the true wireless (MTW2), I think the Senns' are very good sounding. I think you have to play around with the tips. I use Symbio tips, and those sound noticably better than the stock tips.



TheNikB said:


> The sound quality isn’t good, but perhaps not “excellent”


It would be strange if the sound quality was excellent, if it ain't good...


----------



## Kalli

TheNikB said:


> I have also seen others but separate Bluetooth transmitters and earbuds but as far as I’ve seen there would be no ANC but maybe I’m wrong and got a bit overwhelmed with info.


There are some TWS adapters. Obviously without ANC, but i think with IEMs the ANC isnt that important. It's more about environment mode.


----------



## TheNikB

KevInquisition said:


> Hey there if you're looking for true wireless with ANC your options are a bit limited but in my experience the best sounding of the bunch is easily the Sony WF1000xm3. It's not exceptionally clear like a pair of custom IEMs would be, but no product that has ANC will be. I think it's the best blend of sound quality and convenience you can hope for in the wireless ANC space, and would be a really good upgrade from the sennheisers, which in my opinion are horrendous for their price. Hope this was helpful.



Thank you for the help! I actually ordered the Sony’s last night and Master & Dynamic MW07 Plus so I can do a comparison. Are you familiar with the Tronsmart Apollo Bold? Someone had recommended them to me and not sure if they are just amazing for the price or amazing even comparatively? Have read amazing things online about them. 

I’m glad someone else feels the same way about the Sennheisers! I was so excited to receive them and was like wow not bad but definitely not the upgrade I was looking for. 

I may have to consider forgoing ANC if still unhappy. That definitely opens up the possibilities but I’ll let you know how the Sony and Master & Dynamic are.


----------



## TheNikB

BigZ12 said:


> Do you mean Sennheiser Momentum True Wireless 2?? Or do you talk about an over-ear headphone, then you are in the wrong forum.
> 
> If you mean the true wireless (MTW2), I think the Senns' are very good sounding. I think you have to play around with the tips. I use Symbio tips, and those sound noticably better than the stock tips.
> 
> ...



Corrected my post! Muse have been a bit tired when writing it out hah sorry! They are the MTW2.

And yes yes, the were good, not excellent!

I tried all the tips on the MTW2 and still not impressed. Firmware is updated, etc. The volume issue is really bad, using an iPhone XS Max and of course everything on the iPhone / Bluetooth is turned up fully.

If I’m unimpressed by the Sony and Master & Dynamic I’ll give the Symbio tips a shot. Sounds like they are good to get regardless though. Do you think they are better than any stock tips or just with the MTW2?

Thanks for the help!


----------



## TheNikB

Kalli said:


> There are some TWS adapters. Obviously without ANC, but i think with IEMs the ANC isnt that important. It's more about environment mode.



Ah I did not realize that environment mode is an option without ANC. For some reason I thought they used similar technology. To be honest I don’t need proper noise cancellation, just environment mode. The passive noise cancellation is enough.

Now back to the drawing board looking for the best with environment mode! Any thoughts?

I appreciate the help!


----------



## BigZ12 (Sep 8, 2020)

TheNikB said:


> Corrected my post! Muse have been a bit tired when writing it out hah sorry! They are the MTW2.
> 
> And yes yes, the were good, not excellent!
> 
> ...


I like Symbio on most of the TWS I've tried, but it's very individual.

With the MTW2 I've tried: Stock, Symbio, JVC Spiral Dots, Comply, Spinfit. The best sound is actually with the medium tips that were included with my BeatsX set 
But I chose the Symbio because I felt they were the complete package. Sound, comfort, no noise while chewing and less "thump" while walking/jogging, seal and ANC.

No stock tips suited my ears at all. No seal with M, and the L were to large/uncorfomtable.


----------



## BigZ12 (Sep 8, 2020)

TheNikB said:


> The volume issue is really bad


I agree, they could be louder. I play them at almost full volume when I use them, but that's ok for me.

Edit: I also use the EQ. See pic. Like them better when I'm boosting the mids a little bit.


----------



## baskingshark

TheNikB said:


> Thank you for the help! I actually ordered the Sony’s last night and Master & Dynamic MW07 Plus so I can do a comparison. Are you familiar with the Tronsmart Apollo Bold? Someone had recommended them to me and not sure if they are just amazing for the price or amazing even comparatively? Have read amazing things online about them.
> 
> I’m glad someone else feels the same way about the Sennheisers! I was so excited to receive them and was like wow not bad but definitely not the upgrade I was looking for.
> 
> I may have to consider forgoing ANC if still unhappy. That definitely opens up the possibilities but I’ll let you know how the Sony and Master & Dynamic are.



Have been using the Tronsmart Apollo Bold for about 2 weeks.

I get around 5 hours battery life on a single charge, with the charging case providing more (I like the small size of the charging case). Fit is good and comfortable, though passive isolation (without ANC) is just above average. Touch controls are responsive, no issues.
BT connectivity is quite good, had only 1 drop out so far in the last 2 weeks of use.

One thing to note is that on ANC mode, the Tronsmart Apollo Bold becomes a bass canon. I'm a basshead and I like it, the bass can be jawrattling on some recordings with a visceral grunt in the subbass. The bass slam and attack is very good. Watching movies with sound effects is a real treat too. But I would think some folks who want less bass may need to EQ at the source or wait for the Tronsmart app to come out this month, where there's supposed to be EQ available inside it I think. Alternatively, u can try some wider bore aftermarket tips to reduce the bass a bit. The ANC does work as advertised, helps to remove some lower frequencies such as during commuting. Headroom is good, can get very loud.

There's an ambient mode where it sounds more open. On normal mode (non ANC), the sound is still on the bassy side but more balanced and I think non bassheads will like the bass quantities in the normal (non ANC) mode. Sound quality actually is quite good for a TWS compared to my previous TFZ B.V2 and soundstage and technicalities are above average. I read somewhere that AptX HD support is coming together with the EQ on the Tronsmart app in september, so I think the app might be a gamechanger when it comes.


----------



## webvan (Sep 8, 2020)

TheNikB said:


> Thank you for the help! I actually ordered the Sony’s last night and Master & Dynamic MW07 Plus so I can do a comparison. Are you familiar with the Tronsmart Apollo Bold? Someone had recommended them to me and not sure if they are just amazing for the price or amazing even comparatively? Have read amazing things online about them.
> 
> I’m glad someone else feels the same way about the Sennheisers! I was so excited to receive them and was like wow not bad but definitely not the upgrade I was looking for.
> 
> I may have to consider forgoing ANC if still unhappy. That definitely opens up the possibilities but I’ll let you know how the Sony and Master & Dynamic are.



I don't have experience with the MW07Plus but have tried pretty much everything else out there with ANC (XM3s, LTA+, EchoBuds, Tozo NC9, MTW2, Apollo Bold, Panasonic RS-Z500, etc...) and you're probably out of luck if the MTW2 are not good enough for you as they are probably the best TWSs out there at the moment (SQ, ANC, Fit, Passive Isolation in particular). Their only weakness is their price really. Another reason I didn't keep them is because I have the Amazon Echo Buds (that get little love here for some reason...) that offer the best in class passive+active isolation in my experience and have a very decent SQ. For "critical" listening I have the L2Ps too. If I had to have only ONE TWS it would be the MTW2s.

The Apollo Bold are not in the same class at all and have many issues (see my previous posts for details) and have been way overhyped IMHO. It doesn't help to get "critical" feedback when many regulars here were sent one for free by Tronsmart, an official forum sponsor apparently who often interrupt this thread...


----------



## Luke Skywalker

Firevortex said:


> Thought i share some info for the yet to be released flagship Nuarl N10 Pro release date late Sept
> Comes with APP according to the dealer, it has a wider sound stage and more bass than the N6 Pro while retaining the detail.


I hope they have AAC too... Otherwise I'll be stuck with SBC on my iPhone


----------



## TheNikB

webvan said:


> I don't have experience with the MW07Plus but have tried pretty much everything else out there with ANC (XM3s, LTA+, EchoBuds, Tozo NC9, MTW2, Apollo Bold, Panasonic RS-Z500, etc...) and you're probably out of luck if the MTW2 are not good enough for you as they are probably the best TWSs out there at the moment (SQ, ANC, Fit, Passive Isolation in particular). Their only weakness is their price really. Another reason I didn't keep them is because I have the Amazon Echo Buds (that get little love here for some reason...) that offer the best in class passive+active isolation in my experience and have a very decent SQ. For "critical" listening I have the L2Ps too. If I had to have only ONE TWS it would be the MTW2s.
> 
> The Apollo Bold are not in the same class at all and have many issues (see my previous posts for details) and have been way overhyped IMHO. It doesn't help to get "critical" feedback when many regulars here were sent one for free by Tronsmart, an official forum sponsor apparently who often interrupt this thread...



Thank you for your honesty and detail. Sounds like you have a ton of experience in this niche! The more I read up on the Liberty 2 Pros the more I think it may be worth getting a pair. From what I can see, there is no transparency mode, correct? I can do without ANC. Transparency mode would be great to have but maybe I need to have some realistic expectations. If the sound quality on the L2Ps are significantly better then I can sacrifice on the other features. If they don’t have transparency, any thoughts on the best set with transparency mode?

I have the Sony & MW07Plus coming in today so I’ll give them a shot regardless and let you know my thoughts.


----------



## Luke Skywalker

bedlamite said:


> Time to go tip-rolling


I still need to figure out what tip rolling is and how to do it.  I actually just got a new pack of Acoustune's   Want to use them on all my buds.  No matter what I do with foam tips they never stay in my ears and I don't get a tight fit for isolation


----------



## TheNikB

BigZ12 said:


> I like Symbio on most of the TWS I've tried, but it's very individual.
> 
> With the MTW2 I've tried: Stock, Symbio, JVC Spiral Dots, Comply, Spinfit. The best sound is actually with the medium tips that were included with my BeatsX set
> But I chose the Symbio because I felt they were the complete package. Sound, comfort, no noise while chewing and less "thump" while walking/jogging, seal and ANC.
> ...



Ordering the Symbios now. Can’t hurt!

I’ve tried playing with the EQ on the MTW2 and it definitely helps but it’s weird having to listen at full volume all the time. Then when I really want to crank it up for a track I’m out of luck lol


----------



## BigZ12

TheNikB said:


> Ordering the Symbios now. Can’t hurt!
> 
> I’ve tried playing with the EQ on the MTW2 and it definitely helps but it’s weird having to listen at full volume all the time. Then when I really want to crank it up for a track I’m out of luck lol


Did you order the Symbio W, or Wn?


----------



## TheNikB

BigZ12 said:


> Did you order the Symbio W, or Wn?



Been googling trying to find the stem diameter of the Sennheisers, which ones worked for you? If it’s the Wn looks like I may have to order the W as well for other earbuds.


----------



## BigZ12 (Sep 8, 2020)

TheNikB said:


> Been googling trying to find the stem diameter of the Sennheisers, which ones worked for you? If it’s the Wn looks like I may have to order the W as well for other earbuds.


Both are 4.5mm (Edit: up to 6mm), and fit nicely. (Wn is also delivered with a 3-4mm adapter)*.*


----------



## TheNikB

BigZ12 said:


> Both are 4.5mm (Edit: up to 6mm), and fit nicely. (Wn is also delivered with a 3-4mm adapter)*.*



Perfect, thanks! Makes more sense to get the Wn or Wa then since it comes with a free adapter. I’m guessing you went with the Wn? Fits most of your earbuds?


----------



## BigZ12 (Sep 8, 2020)

TheNikB said:


> Perfect, thanks! Makes more sense to get the Wn or Wa then since it comes with a free adapter. I’m guessing you went with the Wn? Fits most of your earbuds?


Yes, but I have several different versions of the Symbios  (my BeatsX love the Symbio F for ex.).
Large Wn on the MTW2 right now. (I usually am a M+ user, but sometimes I need Large tips to get max seal)


----------



## webvan

TheNikB said:


> Thank you for your honesty and detail. Sounds like you have a ton of experience in this niche! The more I read up on the Liberty 2 Pros the more I think it may be worth getting a pair. From what I can see, there is no transparency mode, correct? I can do without ANC. Transparency mode would be great to have but maybe I need to have some realistic expectations. If the sound quality on the L2Ps are significantly better then I can sacrifice on the other features. If they don’t have transparency, any thoughts on the best set with transparency mode?
> 
> I have the Sony & MW07Plus coming in today so I’ll give them a shot regardless and let you know my thoughts.



The L2Ps are great for "critical listening" thanks to their clarity, stereo imaging and EQ abilities via the app, but yes there is no transparency mode and the passive isolation is not great. That's why I wouldn't pick them if I were to only have one TWE. To me the only one that would fit that bill right now is the MTW2 for the reasons mentioned above. Let us know how you like the XM3s and MW07Plus !


----------



## Mouseman

I'm convinced that if Soundcore would put out an ANC set (or get it working on the L2Ps like they were trying to at one point), they'd have a home run on their hands. With EQ through the app, they really are amazing. I don't notice any hiss like others have had issues with, but mine might be a later version.


----------



## webvan

I didn't know they'd tried to add ANC to the L2Ps ! Do you have any details ?


----------



## BigZ12




----------



## clerkpalmer

BigZ12 said:


>




Interesting.  Might be worth another look BUT, is tomorrow the day the embargo comes off the bose?  Drum roll please.


----------



## Mouseman

webvan said:


> I didn't know they'd tried to add ANC to the L2Ps ! Do you have any details ?


There was some talk about it in the Anker forum and I think it was mentioned here at some point. Someone said the engineers had found it more difficult than they expected or had some kind of problem. I never heard anything after that.


----------



## VICosPhi

MTW2 sound muffled with factory tips, at least to me. Symbio Peel open them up a bit, but JVC SpiralDots or SpiralDots++ really open up the treble and they sound 80% of what my wired FH7 sound! MTW2 are currently the closest sounding TWS IEMs imo when compared to wired IEMs. I am looking forward to the Bose IEMs to see how they will compare to MTW2


----------



## TheNikB

BigZ12 said:


>




Damn these look interesting too! I read about these but it was the older version. Just picked up the Sonys and Master & Dynamic and planning on testing today and tomorrow. Might have to add these to the list!


----------



## Laethageal

Mouseman said:


> Does anyone with the Apollo Bolds have a clipping on deep bass sections at 3/4 volume and up? I got mine about a week ago, and I've noticed it on songs like "The Reaper" by the Chainsmokers. I've never had this happen before on any of my decent IEMs, not sure if they need more burn in, a better deal, or if I got a bad pair.


I was heavily leaning toward the TWSNB2 because of the excellent call quality (which was the original reason I got my first TWS) but your comment nudged me and I ordered the Edifier. 2-4 weeks delivery time sadly, otherwise I'd need to shell and extra 50$ for "fast" 2-3 week shipping to Canada.

I am now torn between ordering the Bold and another "relatively cheap" TWS or to wait to see if I could get lucky enough to be picked for the review and spoil myself with one high end TWS.



TheNikB said:


> Damn these look interesting too! I read about these but it was the older version. Just picked up the Sonys and Master & Dynamic and planning on testing today and tomorrow. Might have to add these to the list!


Curious about this as well. Let me know your impression, since I haven't decided myself on which high end TWS to get to complement the Edifier TWSNB2.


----------



## chinmie (Sep 9, 2020)

a new lypertek
https://www.techradar.com/uk/news/t...-the-best-value-true-wireless-earbuds-of-2020


----------



## disastermouse

Laethageal said:


> I was heavily leaning toward the TWSNB2 because of the excellent call quality (which was the original reason I got my first TWS) but your comment nudged me and I ordered the Edifier. 2-4 weeks delivery time sadly, otherwise I'd need to shell and extra 50$ for "fast" 2-3 week shipping to Canada.
> 
> I am now torn between ordering the Bold and another "relatively cheap" TWS or to wait to see if I could get lucky enough to be picked for the review and spoil myself with one high end TWS.
> 
> ...



Where can you even buy the Edifier NB2?


----------



## Laethageal

disastermouse said:


> Where can you even buy the Edifier NB2?


Got them on Aliexpress. 
Shortened link:
https://bit.ly/35khmRG


----------



## disastermouse

Laethageal said:


> Got them on Aliexpress.
> Shortened link:
> https://bit.ly/35khmRG


No AAC? Really?


----------



## FYLegend

I've posted my reviews of Samsung Galaxy Buds+ and TaoTronics SoundLiberty 94! See signature.



BigZ12 said:


>



Interesting, so does QuietMax only apply to the units made after June 2020?



chinmie said:


> a new lypertek tevi
> https://www.techradar.com/uk/news/t...-the-best-value-true-wireless-earbuds-of-2020


Ambient sound but no AptX? hmm...


----------



## disastermouse

The best I’ve ever used are the CCA-CX10!


----------



## DynamicEars

chinmie said:


> a new lypertek tevi
> https://www.techradar.com/uk/news/t...-the-best-value-true-wireless-earbuds-of-2020



its Tevi's little brother called Levi, cheaper with lower IPX rating, maybe contain similar driver though.


----------



## LoryWiv

disastermouse said:


> The best I’ve ever used are the CCA-CX10!


Does this CCA only have AAC, no AptX for us non-iphone users?


----------



## Laethageal (Sep 9, 2020)

disastermouse said:


> No AAC? Really?



It is bad on android so there's no reason to look for AAC as an option: no one with a clear, logical mind would purchase some Iphone. Their product have ok hardware with awful software putting you in a glass prison.  

Sorry, couldn't resist the easy teasing about Apple


----------



## Kalli

TheNikB said:


> Ah I did not realize that environment mode is an option without ANC. For some reason I thought they used similar technology. To be honest I don’t need proper noise cancellation, just environment mode. The passive noise cancellation is enough.
> 
> Now back to the drawing board looking for the best with environment mode! Any thoughts?
> 
> I appreciate the help!


The principle is the same, but Env mode is way easier than ANC.

As far as I know there is only the Shure RMCE-TW1 for that purpose. It's quite a nice TWS MMCX adapter with charging case. The other ones don't have env mode. I didn't dig deep into that topic yet though. Also trying to figure out if any IEM/bud + adapter is worth it, or just go with any "all-in-one" TWS. As far as I read, the all-in-one solutions are mostly mainstream sounding, which means too much bass and I already had a really hard time finding something that fits my needs with a wireless headphone that way. Since the Shure Aonic 50 are really nice, and all together my experience with Shure was pretty good, I would guess, that their new TWS adapter does a good job as well. A lot of people reported great results with their 846s, so it can't be that bad .


----------



## GeeD (Sep 9, 2020)

FYLegend said:


> Interesting, so does QuietMax only apply to the units made after June 2020?



https://usa.1more.com/blogs/reviews...rue-wireless-anc-headphones-are-thx-certified

If there is a hardware difference then that may explain why I didn't think much of the 3.62 update to my original release versions.  So do we have to buy these ...again 


PS - 1More ComfoBuds - https://fccid.io/2ASDIESS3001T/External-Photos/External-Photos-4805810


----------



## BigZ12

BigZ12 said:


> It seems there's a lot of exciting new TWSs upcoming?
> Can someone list the most anticapated ones that's soon up for release? (and if any have been released the last week or so)
> 
> Any chance for adding the following info:
> ...


No one would take on the job?


----------



## TheNikB

VICosPhi said:


> MTW2 sound muffled with factory tips, at least to me. Symbio Peel open them up a bit, but JVC SpiralDots or SpiralDots++ really open up the treble and they sound 80% of what my wired FH7 sound! MTW2 are currently the closest sounding TWS IEMs imo when compared to wired IEMs. I am looking forward to the Bose IEMs to see how they will compare to MTW2



Appreciate the insight.


Kalli said:


> The principle is the same, but Env mode is way easier than ANC.
> 
> As far as I know there is only the Shure RMCE-TW1 for that purpose. It's quite a nice TWS MMCX adapter with charging case. The other ones don't have env mode. I didn't dig deep into that topic yet though. Also trying to figure out if any IEM/bud + adapter is worth it, or just go with any "all-in-one" TWS. As far as I read, the all-in-one solutions are mostly mainstream sounding, which means too much bass and I already had a really hard time finding something that fits my needs with a wireless headphone that way. Since the Shure Aonic 50 are really nice, and all together my experience with Shure was pretty good, I would guess, that their new TWS adapter does a good job as well. A lot of people reported great results with their 846s, so it can't be that bad .



Appreciate the info! The first pair of premium earbuds I ever bought were from Shure about ten years ago. I was using just the basic Apple wired earbuds at the Atlanta airport when this guy at an electronics stand was trying to convince me to give something else a shot. Ten minutes later ended up with $600 Shure earbuds and totally changed my appreciation for quality audio equipment! Shure has a special place for me. 

I‘ll let you know my thoughts on the top TW ANC from Sennheiser, Sony and Master & Dynamic. I also just ordered the new 1More set that has some special noise cancelling and is the first TW to be THX certified. I wasn’t sure if the THX certification is more of a gimmick than anything but from my limited research it doesn’t seem to be so. Only issue with THX certification is you can’t change the EQ settings on the earbuds without third party software. Will be eagerly testing those on Sunday and if I’m still unhappy across the board I’ll likely end up going with Shure. Hopefully I won’t end up leaving them on a plane like I did with my first set!


----------



## TheNikB

GeeD said:


> https://usa.1more.com/blogs/reviews...rue-wireless-anc-headphones-are-thx-certified
> 
> If there is a hardware difference then that may explain why I didn't think much of the 3.62 update to my original release versions.  So do we have to buy these ...again
> 
> ...



Would be nice if they at least offered an upgrade program. Can’t hurt to ask!

Just ordered the new ones for Sunday delivery and although I don’t have the old ones and I’m not an audiophile, I can provide some comparative feedback against the top mainstream sets.


----------



## phaeton70

@TheNikB since you are in "buy&try" mode  I can also suggest the Panasonic S500-WE
very good sounding IMHO, only "issue" is that they only support AAC, so you better have an iPhone or a good android phone. with my S9+ they sound very good.
oh, now I think of it, there is also another "issue", the comfort is not the max, the fit in the ear is not so intuitive and you must carefully choose the right tips


----------



## Kalli

I'm about to test the MOONDROP STARFIELD and the TINHIFI T4.
Any other recommendations for listening to classical music? (solo piano and piano with orchestra)


----------



## BigZ12

Kalli said:


> I'm about to test the MOONDROP STARFIELD and the TINHIFI T4.
> Any other recommendations for listening to classical music? (solo piano and piano with orchestra)


But those are wired...


----------



## Kalli

BigZ12 said:


> But those are wired...


True, but I'll get an adapter if they're nice.
The closest people could recommend for TWS are the Galaxy buds+ and they're without aptX (painful on Android).


----------



## voicemaster

Kalli said:


> True, but I'll get an adapter if they're nice.
> The closest people could recommend for TWS are the Galaxy buds+ and they're without aptX (painful on Android).


Android other than samsung.


----------



## Kalli

voicemaster said:


> Android other than samsung.


True, but what's the point here?
I guess it's some kind of marketing decision, but that's not relevant for me. If they don't include aptX, they won't sell to me.


----------



## voicemaster

Kalli said:


> True, but what's the point here?
> I guess it's some kind of marketing decision, but that's not relevant for me. If they don't include aptX, they won't sell to me.


There are tons of cheap tws with aptx. I am just stating the fact that galaxy buds in samsung phone is running different codec than other android phones.


----------



## Kalli

voicemaster said:


> There are tons of cheap tws with aptx. I am just stating the fact that galaxy buds in samsung phone is running different codec than other android phones.


Ah ok, thanks for that info. 
Actually I'm looking for something to replace (or at least get near) my Shure Aonic 50 headphones.


----------



## Caipirina (Sep 9, 2020)

BigZ12 said:


>



Great ...
For a moment I thought those might be all features with some new magical FW update ... no such luck ...
I had ordered mine during the end of March sale, they were forever delayed and only few days ago I finally got my hands on them ... and now they are obsolete (Manufacturing date 01/2020) ... well, still, I kinda like em ... i just keep having an unbalanced fit (right ear fantastic, left only so so)

(edit: put some wider bore SpinFits on to make up for that oval shape of the nozzle .. and that's quite some better! ... somehow I can;t get the OTA FW update done, always getting 'abnormal network' stuck at V0.03.13)


----------



## voicemaster

Caipirina said:


> Great ...
> For a moment I thought those might be all features with some new magical FW update ... no such luck ...
> I had ordered mine during the end of March sale, they were forever delayed and only few days ago I finally got my hands on them ... and now they are obsolete (Manufacturing date 01/2020) ... well, still, I kinda like em ... i just keep having an unbalanced fit (right ear fantastic, left only so so)


I thought it was upgradable by firmware update but it isn't. Still have mine for long distance travelling, but I haven't use it until yesterday.


----------



## TheNikB

phaeton70 said:


> @TheNikB since you are in "buy&try" mode  I can also suggest the Panasonic S500-WE
> very good sounding IMHO, only "issue" is that they only support AAC, so you better have an iPhone or a good android phone. with my S9+ they sound very good.
> oh, now I think of it, there is also another "issue", the comfort is not the max, the fit in the ear is not so intuitive and you must carefully choose the right tips



Information overload!
I’ll definitely keep these in mind if I don’t like the others but I figure with 4 sets I’m bound to be happy with one. I appreciate the advice - good to know there are other quality options!


----------



## GeeD

Caipirina said:


> Great ...
> For a moment I thought those might be all features with some new magical FW update ... no such luck ...
> I had ordered mine during the end of March sale, they were forever delayed and only few days ago I finally got my hands on them ... and now they are obsolete (Manufacturing date 01/2020) ... well, still, I kinda like em ... i just keep having an unbalanced fit (right ear fantastic, left only so so)



I upgraded to the 3.62 mentioned when it came out, and that has been around for a good few months now.  Gamesky said date OR firmware but the 1More website and a couple of other press releases say BOTH date and firmware.   I wonder how many of the old model hardware they still need to get rid of?  AliEx doesn't even mention THX for example or Amazon ...I wish manufacturers would use different model numbers if they change the hardware.  Fingers crossed it is just a firmware, but not looking like it.


----------



## Bhelpoori

The Nuarl website in Japanese says:

"NUARL N10 Pro" will be released on September 18 (Reservation starts from September 10)

The Japanese pages are now officially up but the English isn’t up yet.


----------



## Caipirina (Sep 9, 2020)

while looking for Bose TWS news I came across this!



apparently Australian retailer Harvey Norman released a promo video which features some nice looks and details (StayHear Max!)






So, apparently also in white .. no price info really, some guesses by the YT guy


----------



## Caipirina

GeeD said:


> I upgraded to the 3.62 mentioned when it came out, and that has been around for a good few months now.  Gamesky said date OR firmware but the 1More website and a couple of other press releases say BOTH date and firmware.   I wonder how many of the old model hardware they still need to get rid of?  AliEx doesn't even mention THX for example or Amazon ...I wish manufacturers would use different model numbers if they change the hardware.  Fingers crossed it is just a firmware, but not looking like it.



i managed to get to 3.62 now as well .. (after upgrading the 1more app) and so far no changes really ...  i still seem to have some nasty interference sound (sometimes only and very distant and only left) when I turn ANC on .. bummer, but it is inaudible when music plays, i can only make it out between tracks


----------



## Caipirina (Sep 9, 2020)

BigZ12 said:


> No one would take on the job?


Only set I am waiting for are the Bose quitecomfort 700 Earbuds or whatever they end up calling them.


----------



## Caipirina

Ok, my last Bose post for today: 
Whatever happened to the 500er model (that one was demoed, no ANC, never heard of again ...)


----------



## dwells

Mpow M30 is currently on sale on Amazon US for $26.50. Seems like a pretty great deal. If it weren’t for the supposedly lackluster call quality, I’d pick up a pair for myself.

I’m still back to square one in my search. Good neutral sound, compact case with USB-C, no stems, and good call quality all together seems like an impossible ask, apparently.


----------



## Kalli

TheNikB said:


> I also just ordered the new 1More set that has some special noise cancelling and is the first TW to be THX certified. I wasn’t sure if the THX certification is more of a gimmick than anything but from my limited research it doesn’t seem to be so. Only issue with THX certification is you can’t change the EQ settings on the earbuds without third party software.


Just a few cents on the THX certification from Joshua (In my eyes one you can trust on Youtube).

Just watch the first 2 minutes.


----------



## LoryWiv (Sep 9, 2020)

BigZ12 said:


> No one would take on the job?


I am definitely not knowledgeable enough to offer a thorough list, BUT am excited for the upcoming Soundpeats H1 hybrid with Qualcomm 3040 / Adaptive AptX which I believe allows AptX HD compatibility to stream 24 bit audio.


----------



## LoryWiv

Kalli said:


> I'm about to test the MOONDROP STARFIELD and the TINHIFI T4.
> Any other recommendations for listening to classical music? (solo piano and piano with orchestra)


If you are going wired IEM and want a bluetooth receiver to use them with, I can recommend the FiiO BTR5,. I am a classical listener (piano, chamber music mostly) and have been using it for a while. Affordable and I am very impressed with features, functionality and quality. See *this thread* for more info.


----------



## LoryWiv

Kalli said:


> Ah ok, thanks for that info.
> Actually I'm looking for something to replace (or at least get near) my Shure Aonic 50 headphones.


Are you dissatisfied with the Shure Aoinic 50? They have been on my shortlist to purchase for a full-sized bluetooth option.


----------



## Kalli

LoryWiv said:


> If you are going wired IEM and want a bluetooth receiver to use them with, I can recommend the FiiO BTR5,. I am a classical listener (piano, chamber music mostly) and have been using it for a while. Affordable and I am very impressed with features, functionality and quality. See *this thread* for more info.


That's exactly what I'm planning. But ideally I want to go true wireless with environment mode. And that narrows it down to the Shure RMCE-TW1 as an adapter. While it is a bit pricey, the performance should be quite good as far as i did read.
But a question to you. Do you have any IEMs to recommend? Listening to piano solo or with orchestra mostly.



LoryWiv said:


> Are you dissatisfied with the Shure Aoinic 50? They have been on my shortlist to purchase for a full-sized bluetooth option.


Not at all. I do absolutely love them. But for daily usage they're too big for my liking.


----------



## LoryWiv

@Kalli PM sent.


----------



## Dijitalism

I’m giving up on my AirPod Pros due to them causing my ear canals to itch, and giving me contact dermatitis. There’s a big thread on the issue over on Apple support, apparently the APPs themselves or the silicone tips are causing an allergic reaction.

As an iPhone user, they were very convenient to have. Would replacing them with the Sony’s be an upgrade?


----------



## typhoon838

What's the consensus on the quality control of the Jabra 65t? They're cheap now and I'm looking into them but I have read a lot about people complaining about their connectivity dropping, or issues with charging, or them failing after a few months


----------



## AudioNoob

So it seems that apart from the connection to the case issue, the apollo bold seems to be best reasonable cost ANC option so far. I look forward to getting the app to reduce the bass a bit. Does anyone have a solution for the one-side not charging in case?


----------



## TheNikB

Kalli said:


> Just a few cents on the THX certification from Joshua (In my eyes one you can trust on Youtube).
> 
> Just watch the first 2 minutes.




Ah was afraid of this. Let’s see how they do!

Appreciate the video


----------



## TheNikB

Dijitalism said:


> I’m giving up on my AirPod Pros due to them causing my ear canals to itch, and giving me contact dermatitis. There’s a big thread on the issue over on Apple support, apparently the APPs themselves or the silicone tips are causing an allergic reaction.
> 
> As an iPhone user, they were very convenient to have. Would replacing them with the Sony’s be an upgrade?



I’ve only been using the Sony’s for a day but the AirPod Pros sound pretty lousy in comparison. Got my GF the AirPod Pros last week and I’ve used them a fair bit. I would absolutely consider the Sony’s a worthy upgrade.


----------



## GeeD (Sep 10, 2020)

Caipirina said:


> i managed to get to 3.62 now as well .. (after upgrading the 1more app) and so far no changes really ...  i still seem to have some nasty interference sound (sometimes only and very distant and only left) when I turn ANC on .. bummer, but it is inaudible when music plays, i can only make it out between tracks



According to the 1More Shop on ALiEx
"I checked with our engineer , if the version updated to 3.6.2,then it is the same, can also pass the THX certified" ...which kind of makes sense to me, not sure why you would need to change the hardware.


Checking the Joshua video ...so depends if you think THX cert is coolaid or not.


----------



## Caipirina

AudioNoob said:


> So it seems that apart from the connection to the case issue, the apollo bold seems to be best reasonable cost ANC option so far. I look forward to getting the app to reduce the bass a bit. Does anyone have a solution for the one-side not charging in case?


I padded my lid with some random paper I had lying around (shall upgrade with foam), but this seems to do the trick. I have no charging issues at all. 



There should be a better picture a bunch of posts ago. Can’t find it though 

and I agree, at under 100$, they are awesome. Since I somehow ‘only’ paid 134€ for the Pana500, I consider those as ‘not too far off’, but technically they are double the price ..


----------



## Caipirina (Sep 10, 2020)

GeeD said:


> According to the 1More Shop on ALiEx
> "I checked with our engineer , if the version updated to 3.6.2,then it is the same, can also pass the THX certified" ...which kind of makes sense to me, not sure why you would need to change the hardware.
> 
> 
> Checking the Joshua video ...so depends if you think THX cert is coolaid or not.



So, they are all THX now? can't say I hear a difference 

(ok, watched that Razor vid, so, THX cert means exactly diddly squat ? )


----------



## phaeton70 (Sep 10, 2020)

Caipirina said:


> I padded my lid with some random paper I had lying around (shall upgrade with foam), but this seems to do the trick. I have no charging issues at all.
> 
> 
> There should be a better picture a bunch of posts ago. Can’t find it though
> ...



+1
did the same with my Apollo's box, and yes the Pana sound better but are 2x the price.....
I think Apollo are for sure a good if not excellent bang for the buck


----------



## chinmie

AudioNoob said:


> So it seems that apart from the connection to the case issue, the apollo bold seems to be best reasonable cost ANC option so far. I look forward to getting the app to reduce the bass a bit. Does anyone have a solution for the one-side not charging in case?



what eartips are you using on your Bold? i currently using Symbio W peel on them, but also previously used Sony Hybrids. both of them can fit and charge without issue inside the case. 

i do feel that it rattles a bit if i shake the case, so padding the inside like what @Caipirina and @phaeton70 suggested would definitely do the trick to reduce rattle and losing connection to the charging pins.

i also agree with you, the Bold, apart from needing heavy bass cut, (and my personal peeve: annoying pause when removing the earpiece) really worth the asking price. it's nice to use, and the bass rumble especially enjoyable for watching films.


----------



## bedlamite

Luke Skywalker said:


> I still need to figure out what tip rolling is and how to do it.  I actually just got a new pack of Acoustune's   Want to use them on all my buds.  No matter what I do with foam tips they never stay in my ears and I don't get a tight fit for isolation


It's basically getting all these weird tips and finding out what works best for your ears haha. I've never liked foams, e.g Comply. They don't last, and more importantly they kill the treble. 

I've been using my oversized pair of Xelastecs with the Sony XM3s and they're a perfect combo. Basically breathed new life into the XM3s. I had left these by the wayside ever since the Senn TWM2s and the AKGs came in, plus the Spinfit CP360s I put in the XM3s made vocals sound weird. With the Xelastecs, sound balance on the Sonys are absolutely perfect. The tips are insanely grippy so they don't fall out, even though they're a little big.


----------



## BigZ12

Dijitalism said:


> I’m giving up on my AirPod Pros due to them causing my ear canals to itch, and giving me contact dermatitis. There’s a big thread on the issue over on Apple support, apparently the APPs themselves or the silicone tips are causing an allergic reaction.
> 
> As an iPhone user, they were very convenient to have. Would replacing them with the Sony’s be an upgrade?


A couple of years ago, one postal office in a Norwegian town got an envelope with white powder that burst.
10 were put in isolation in hospital with severe itching, rash and sore throat.
The powder was later diagnosed as some kind of harmless white flour....

But...If it's real, and it's the silicone tips that are causing the itching, maybe try the Comply Foam? I like them very much for the Airpods Pro (if I can get them to stick...they've loosened a couple of times in the ear)


----------



## IEManiac

Lypertek Tevi - Still the top pick under $100?

If not, which one is it?


----------



## Legislative

I know they haven't been discussed here much, probably due to there budget nature, but I have been very impressed with the Edifier X3.

Sound quality and build are excellent for the very budget price. 

Also connectivity is just crazy, I went to the toilet at school having left my mobile on the desk in the teachers room. Connection was still stable, I paced it back as 19 metres and through two walls.

The only issue I have had with them after a month is that my large ears sometimes touch the touch sensitive surface pausing the music.
I am a large bloke 6"3  with even larger ears, humans should not be affected by this issue.


----------



## Caipirina

chinmie said:


> what eartips are you using on your Bold? i currently using Symbio W peel on them, but also previously used Sony Hybrids. both of them can fit and charge without issue inside the case.
> 
> i do feel that it rattles a bit if i shake the case, so padding the inside like what @Caipirina and @phaeton70 suggested would definitely do the trick to reduce rattle and losing connection to the charging pins.
> 
> i also agree with you, the Bold, apart from needing heavy bass cut, (and my personal peeve: annoying pause when removing the earpiece) really worth the asking price. it's nice to use, and the bass rumble especially enjoyable for watching films.


I actually put some SpinFits on today and that seems a bit better ... fit wise ... but still not feeling 'secure' (don't really recall how I managed to run with them ... holding head very steady I guess)


----------



## Caipirina

Here is a fun 'blast from the past' ... anyone recall the 'hype' around the Anker Soundcore Liberty Air 2 ??? the 'DIAMOND COATED' ones? 

Can anyone recall WHY they were so precious? I am trying to wrap my head around why I ordered them (back in April) and finally they arrived!!! 
Funny thing 1: While the charging case takes Usb-C (and Qi) the seller added a 6ft Anker Micro USB cable as a freebie  
Funny thing 2: They are no longer diamond COATED ... they have changed the verbage now to diamond INSPIRED!!! 




Not sure if they only had enough diamond dust for the first generation or if simply someone called them on the ad-copy lie and they can no longer say diamond coated. 

Anyways, even after 5 months in the mail, they still had enough juice for a quick try and well a) despite being stem based, right out of the box, with the (i guess) medium tips, they fit surprisingly well b) on first listen they DO sound nice. 

They are still being offered for 96$ in AliExpress, that's not what I paid .. but given that 80$ can give you nowadays great sounding ANC buds like the Apollo, why would anyone still by the Liberty Air 2?


----------



## BobJS

typhoon838 said:


> What's the consensus on the quality control of the Jabra 65t? They're cheap now and I'm looking into them but I have read a lot about people complaining about their connectivity dropping, or issues with charging, or them failing after a few months



The quality control is fantastic.  They are all consistently mediocre.


----------



## Dijitalism

BigZ12 said:


> A couple of years ago, one postal office in a Norwegian town got an envelope with white powder that burst.
> 10 were put in isolation in hospital with severe itching, rash and sore throat.
> The powder was later diagnosed as some kind of harmless white flour....
> 
> But...If it's real, and it's the silicone tips that are causing the itching, maybe try the Comply Foam? I like them very much for the Airpods Pro (if I can get them to stick...they've loosened a couple of times in the ear)



I can absolutely assure you it’s real. Whenever I use them, my ear canals start to itch, and they discharge some sort of waxy fluid (gross, I know). I stopped using them and went back to og AirPods, no issues. Looking around on Apple’s forums, it seems changing the tips don’t help that much. That leads me to believe that there’s something in the composition of the APPs that I’m allergic to. It’s a shame because they’re so convenient to use.


----------



## BigZ12

Dijitalism said:


> I can absolutely assure you it’s real. Whenever I use them, my ear canals start to itch, and they discharge some sort of waxy fluid (gross, I know). I stopped using them and went back to og AirPods, no issues. Looking around on Apple’s forums, it seems changing the tips don’t help that much. That leads me to believe that there’s something in the composition of the APPs that I’m allergic to. It’s a shame because they’re so convenient to use.


That's too bad, and quite strange. 
There's a weird smell (especially when they're new) of the Airpods Pro, could be the composition you talk about? (guess you have tried to clean them with a disinfecting cloth for example?)
Have Apple said anything about the matter? (of course they haven't..?)


----------



## Kalli

By all the buds which get recommended here at the moment. How do they compare to the Galaxy Buds Plus?


----------



## Dijitalism

BigZ12 said:


> That's too bad, and quite strange.
> There's a weird smell (especially when they're new) of the Airpods Pro, could be the composition you talk about? (guess you have tried to clean them with a disinfecting cloth for example?)
> Have Apple said anything about the matter? (of course they haven't..?)



I’ve tried cleaning them, but it hasn’t helped. I haven’t contacted Apple, I don’t think they’ll do anything since I’ve had the things for a few months now. I’ll most likely just pop them on eBay and return to using og AirPods.


----------



## Caipirina

Dijitalism said:


> I’ve tried cleaning them, but it hasn’t helped. I haven’t contacted Apple, I don’t think they’ll do anything since I’ve had the things for a few months now. I’ll most likely just pop them on eBay and return to using og AirPods.


Now I really need to check when I use which TWS as I recently had the same thing (itch and fluid) and I thought I just get contact dermatitis from constantly plugging something into my ears and never let them ‘breathe’ ... could be that the last itch coincided with the last time I wore APP. And I do recall that smell when they were new ...


----------



## myltz400

Funny this came up.  I have the same issue with my APP!  I have tried everything, cleaning them with alcohol and peroxide etc.  The only thing that made a little difference was aftermarket tips.  I still get irritation anywhere the plastic part of the earpiece touches my skin for more than a few minutes.  Evidently there are people that have had some serious infections that required professional treatment!  I have not contacted apple yet either.

We have three pairs in the house and my wife and kids have no problems, however I am the only heavy user.


----------



## TK33 (Sep 10, 2020)

Anyone getting in on the MW07 Plus on Drop? Tempting at $199...new version coming soon?


----------



## webvan

The tips of the APP do have a strange "smell", it has to be the "components" they use as I've never noticed that with other IEMs...


----------



## Caipirina

BobJS said:


> The quality control is fantastic.  They are all consistently mediocre.


I had trouble with my Jabra Elite Sport, even the replacement pair I got after a while just died (battery something I think) ... there were constant issues with battery / case (like music keeps playing when buds are back in case) ...  soooo ... I was also tempted by getting some 65T from amazon warehouse, but after that experience rather no ...


----------



## Luke Skywalker

Dijitalism said:


> I’m giving up on my AirPod Pros due to them causing my ear canals to itch, and giving me contact dermatitis. There’s a big thread on the issue over on Apple support, apparently the APPs themselves or the silicone tips are causing an allergic reaction.
> 
> As an iPhone user, they were very convenient to have. Would replacing them with the Sony’s be an upgrade?


Have you looked at the Nuarl N6 Pro's?  I'm listening to music right now on my iPhone 7 with them and it sounds awesome... Although you might want to wait for the N10 that's coming soon


----------



## Luke Skywalker

BobJS said:


> The quality control is fantastic.  They are all consistently mediocre.


Haha.  I use mine for running and tried to put my favorite tips (Acoustune AET08) on today but the stem is so short that they fall off or stick inside my ear when I put the earbuds out.  Pain in the butt given that my XM3's, Nuarl N6P, and JH Lola's all have the regular tips that the AET08's fit on perfectly.  The other thing is the case is to tiny that almost any tip I use makes it really difficult to close the case

I wonder if it would be a horrible idea to use something sticky to keep the tips on the stems?  Superglue is a little bit too permanent for me


----------



## Caipirina

I think I am also done with just buying each and everything that KZ pumps out ...


----------



## Bhelpoori

The Bose TWS has been announced: 
https://www.theverge.com/2020/9/10/...mfort-sports-earbuds-announced-features-price
*https://www.bose.com/en_us/products/headphones/earbuds/quietcomfort-earbuds.html#v=qc_earbuds_black*

Let's hope the software is more stable than the Bose 700 over ears which has been buggy since launch, with a poor record of bug fixing.


----------



## webvan

Not very convincing...for a start they're HUGE and that "11 levels of noise cancellation" is a non-starter selling point since most (all ?) ANC TWEs offer different levels. Hopefully they will have good passive isolation unlike all the Bose earbuds so far that have had "open" designs...which sort of defeats the purpose of an isolating earbud, unless you work in a cubicle and just want to turn off the background noise without listening to music. In any case that made sense when there were no "transparency" mode but now ?


----------



## BigZ12

Bhelpoori said:


> The Bose TWS has been announced:
> https://www.theverge.com/2020/9/10/...mfort-sports-earbuds-announced-features-price
> *https://www.bose.com/en_us/products/headphones/earbuds/quietcomfort-earbuds.html#v=qc_earbuds_black*
> 
> Let's hope the software is more stable than the Bose 700 over ears which has been buggy since launch, with a poor record of bug fixing.


And "only" SBC and AAC...


----------



## Caipirina

webvan said:


> Not very convincing...for a start they're HUGE and that "11 levels of noise cancellation" is a non-starter selling point since most (all ?) ANC TWEs offer different levels. Hopefully they will have good passive isolation unlike all the Bose earbuds so far that have had "open" designs...which sort of defeats the purpose of an isolating earbud, unless you work in a cubicle and just want to turn off the background noise without listening to music. In any case that made sense when there were no "transparency" mode but now ?


Saying it again, I was VERY skeptical about the QC20, which have the 'open' design 'StayHear' tips ... but I was utterly gobsmacked by them and love using them on planes ... all I ever wanted was the the Bose SSF with QC20 level ANC ... (ok, IF some day they can shrink the form factor down to the Bose SleepBuds size, that would be fine with me)


----------



## Dijitalism

Caipirina said:


> Now I really need to check when I use which TWS as I recently had the same thing (itch and fluid) and I thought I just get contact dermatitis from constantly plugging something into my ears and never let them ‘breathe’ ... could be that the last itch coincided with the last time I wore APP. And I do recall that smell when they were new ...





myltz400 said:


> Funny this came up.  I have the same issue with my APP!  I have tried everything, cleaning them with alcohol and peroxide etc.  The only thing that made a little difference was aftermarket tips.  I still get irritation anywhere the plastic part of the earpiece touches my skin for more than a few minutes.  Evidently there are people that have had some serious infections that required professional treatment!  I have not contacted apple yet either.
> 
> We have three pairs in the house and my wife and kids have no problems, however I am the only heavy user.



I’d advise that you stop using them completely as who knows the long term damage that they could be causing. As well as the itchiness, fluid and dermatitis, I get ringing in my ears. Perhaps the latter is due to the ANC?



Luke Skywalker said:


> Have you looked at the Nuarl N6 Pro's?  I'm listening to music right now on my iPhone 7 with them and it sounds awesome... Although you might want to wait for the N10 that's coming soon



I’ll look into em, but I’ll most likely just stay with the old AirPods.


----------



## GeeD

The Bose QC30 that I tried had a horrible low level hiss.  Might have been good for commuting, but not for sat at home having a quiet listen.


----------



## Caipirina

BigZ12 said:


> And "only" SBC and AAC...



And still no multipoint ... that works so well on the QC35 ... why can't they put that in their TWS? Jabra shows that it works ... 

I kinda want both ... gotta love this sentence about the ex-500 now "Sport Earbuds" 
"_They have an “almost-magical defiance to shift or fall out,” which is one of the most perfect, only-Bose-would-say-something-like-that things that I’ve ever heard._"

Well, I don't see how I can get my hands on either one anytime soon unless any of you fine people is planning a trip to Sri Lanka anytime soon (once they reopen the airport for tourists). Most likely no xmas trip to Japan this year ... sigh ...


----------



## Caipirina

GeeD said:


> The Bose QC30 that I tried had a horrible low level hiss.  Might have been good for commuting, but not for sat at home having a quiet listen.


I think there were many things wrong with the QC30, from early breakage to sub par implementation of BT ... so, not really a flagship model ...


----------



## Bhelpoori

Caipirina said:


> I think there were many things wrong with the QC30, from early breakage to sub par implementation of BT ... so, not really a flagship model ...





Caipirina said:


> And still no multipoint ... that works so well on the QC35 ... why can't they put that in their TWS? Jabra shows that it works ...
> 
> I kinda want both ... gotta love this sentence about the ex-500 now "Sport Earbuds"
> "_They have an “almost-magical defiance to shift or fall out,” which is one of the most perfect, only-Bose-would-say-something-like-that things that I’ve ever heard._"
> ...


Whilst it doesn’t have multipoint, you should be able to swap Bluetooth sources via the app as you can with the NC700. You just can only have one at a time unlike the two (buggy) of the NC700.

Also, the right earphone contains the Voice microphones so you can only take calls with the right earpiece.

No mute for voice calls either, something that is buggy on the NC700 but is useful.

Finally you appear to be able to turn Bluetooth off but still have noise cancelling on so can use them as very expensive ear plugs. Very useful on planes.


----------



## clerkpalmer

I preordered the Bose from Best Buy but I'm on the fence.  Bose.com was showing 2 to 8 days for delivery so I was rolling the dice BB would be faster  Amazon is showing October 15th release.

In any event, I'm not convinced these will be worth the money but I have some time to think about it I suppose.  By then the Nuarl will be available and will probably be substantially cheaper.  Since I don't go to the gym anymore, ANC isn't critical either.


----------



## webvan

Caipirina said:


> Saying it again, I was VERY skeptical about the QC20, which have the 'open' design 'StayHear' tips ... but I was utterly gobsmacked by them and love using them on planes ... all I ever wanted was the the Bose SSF with QC20 level ANC ... (ok, IF some day they can shrink the form factor down to the Bose SleepBuds size, that would be fine with me)


Yeah they're fine in a plane where you only really need to get rid of the engine noise but the lack of passive isolation is a disaster when you commute or when you need to cancel non-rumble sound. A bit like for the APPs although they have better passive isolation than the QC20.


----------



## AudioNoob

Luke Skywalker said:


> Haha.  I use mine for running and tried to put my favorite tips (Acoustune AET08) on today but the stem is so short that they fall off or stick inside my ear when I put the earbuds out.  Pain in the butt given that my XM3's, Nuarl N6P, and JH Lola's all have the regular tips that the AET08's fit on perfectly.  The other thing is the case is to tiny that almost any tip I use makes it really difficult to close the case
> 
> I wonder if it would be a horrible idea to use something sticky to keep the tips on the stems?  Superglue is a little bit too permanent for me


Water based rubber cement


----------



## AudioNoob

chinmie said:


> what eartips are you using on your Bold? i currently using Symbio W peel on them, but also previously used Sony Hybrids. both of them can fit and charge without issue inside the case.



Hopefully they'll add optional play pause for removing an earpiece, though I don't mind it.
I'm using Final E tips, they are my go-to tips by far, they are very soft and seal well, and come in a good range of sizes.


----------



## brtalush

Did any one try these:
https://www.jlabaudio.com/collectio...n/products/epic-air-anc-true-wireless-earbuds
ANC, long battery life, low latency mode, wireless charging.


----------



## brtalush

brtalush said:


> Did any one try these:
> https://www.jlabaudio.com/collectio...n/products/epic-air-anc-true-wireless-earbuds
> ANC, long battery life, low latency mode, wireless charging.


found this :  
and looks like there is also an App.


----------



## jant71 (Sep 10, 2020)

JBL Club Pro+ with ANC, ambient, IPX4, 3 mics per side for best call voice quality and a claim to combat wind noise, and Qi charging($199) and they finally updated those ugly Endurance things for $99 with IPX7 and 30 hours total battery life. The Personi-Fi custom audio feature on the Club Pro+ will be added but not done for the release.
https://news.harman.com/releases/jb...dphones-join-the-jbl-club-series?preview=6332

"*How Personi-Fi works*
Personi-Fi uses a dedicated app to capture the user’s personal sound preferences: how they listen, what they like to listen to, and where they like to listen to it. These preferences are stored in the cloud. Next, specialized signal processing creates immersive sound environments, even 3D sound, which can also be personalized to the user’s device and environment. The processing supports both Bluetooth streaming from smart phone or direct-to-device WiFi / LTE streaming for smart speakers and connected cars. Personi-Fi also features over 200 DSP algorithms and technologies such as Virtual Venues, Individual Sound Zones (ISZ), Clari-Fi, Hearing Profile, and DIRAC Panorama. How listeners use Personi-Fi to optimize their audio experience depends on their device:

*Personi-Fi on mobile devices*
On mobile devices, Personi-Fi preferences for each user and their associated devices and services are downloaded from the cloud to the smart phone companion app. The app acts as a bridge between the cloud and the device, as well as a processing engine for Personi-Fi algorithms including Clari-Fi, Virtual Venues, 3D audio, environment optimization, and more. The processed content is then streamed to the Bluetooth device. Because there is no processing on the device itself, it can be any brand or type of Bluetooth endpoint (e.g. headphones, speaker, or car audio Bluetooth interface)."


----------



## oobika

Does anyone know of any TWS with built in memory, so one could go for a run and leave the phone behind? Or is a smartwatch + TWS combo possible?


----------



## jant71

oobika said:


> Does anyone know of any TWS with built in memory, so one could go for a run and leave the phone behind? Or is a smartwatch + TWS combo possible?



The old 2018 Samsung Gear IconX had 4gb...


----------



## Caipirina

oobika said:


> Does anyone know of any TWS with built in memory, so one could go for a run and leave the phone behind? Or is a smartwatch + TWS combo possible?


There’s also the rarely spoken of Sony WF S900N 
And yes, you can connect TWS to I.e. Apple Watch, some recent Garmin models ...
Personally I still prefer having my phone with me for safety reasons (and selfies  ) ... and I do run a lot!


----------



## LoryWiv

Caipirina said:


> I think I am also done with just buying each and everything that KZ pumps out ...


Where did you spot that add? I wouldn't mind learning a bit more than this teaser. BTW is AAC lossless useful for those not on iphone?


----------



## jant71

LoryWiv said:


> Where did you spot that add? I wouldn't mind learning a bit more than this teaser. BTW is AAC lossless useful for those not on iphone?



They don't mean ALAC and AAC is not lossless. Since KZ stuff has been getting 3 hours on a charge there is no way it would do a real lossless codec.


----------



## LoryWiv

jant71 said:


> They don't mean ALAC and AAC is not lossless. Since KZ stuff has been getting 3 hours on a charge there is no way it would do a real lossless codec.


Thanks @jant71.  So "update 3" in the ad is hype? Disappointing!


----------



## VICosPhi

Bose TWS limited to AAC+SBC is a bummer, especially with the size being on the larger side . But they could still sound good if implementation of the codecs is good. My Bose Soundsport BT sounds okay on AAC.

Now only the Nuarls looking exciting to me, otherwise quite happy with MTW2. JBL Club Pro+ look intriguing, they will not have the PersoniFi feature however.


----------



## Caipirina

LoryWiv said:


> Thanks @jant71.  So "update 3" in the ad is hype? Disappointing!


I think upgrade 1 is already ’hype’ 
The ad was posted in the KZ thread and since I had not seen it here I thought I’d share ...


----------



## Laethageal

brtalush said:


> Did any one try these:
> https://www.jlabaudio.com/collectio...n/products/epic-air-anc-true-wireless-earbuds
> ANC, long battery life, low latency mode, wireless charging.


Did I get the spec correctly ?


----------



## chinmie

AudioNoob said:


> Hopefully they'll add optional play pause for removing an earpiece, though I don't mind it.
> I'm using Final E tips, they are my go-to tips by far, they are very soft and seal well, and come in a good range of sizes.



i also have a couple of Final E tips, but if i remember correctly it's a bit longer so might loose contact on charge? I'll try them again later when i have the chance, to make sure.


----------



## AudioNoob

chinmie said:


> i also have a couple of Final E tips, but if i remember correctly it's a bit longer so might loose contact on charge? I'll try them again later when i have the chance, to make sure.


If i press them on after use they dont, if I pull them iff my ear and put it in, the large side loses contact, ML is ok


----------



## veraideishal (Sep 11, 2020)

So, Fostex have finally released a new version of the TM2 control app (on iOS, at least; Android is still stuck on the old version), and with it a new firmware for the TM2. The firmware update requires you to connect each unit of the TM2 separately to your iPhone, and update each separately (uh...why?). The update will take about 5 minutes for each unit, so 10 minutes total.

New features:

5 band graphic equalizer. It works, though there was some extreme weirdness where the EQ settings only applied to one unit, and required me to disconnect both from my phone and reconnect the other one before they would sync up (on iOS devices, they operate on a primary-secondary basis, with the first to be powered on acting as the primary and routing audio to the secondary)
Environmental / ambient / hearthrough / transparency mode has been greatly improved. Now it has changed from a muffled, weirdly laggy experience that made it impossible to use for holding a conversation to something borderline useful. Two problems: it _massively_ raises the amount of hiss when enabled, and even at its maximum setting, _things still sound softer than in real life_.
The weird digital tone noise that I noticed previously when playing any music seems to have disappeared (though the ever-present hiss still means I’m still sticking with my less sensitive IEMs to use with it). Guess it wasn’t a fault with the circuit design, after all.
You can turn off the touch controls on the units. Wonderful; I’ve never used them anyway.
The touch controls can be used to activate a voice assistant now, I think? Did not test this.
Oh, this is terrible; my left unit has decided to blast that “BRZZZM” sound that a set of speakers make when you don’t plug it in properly into my ear. *Every few minutes.* No thank you. These are going back in my drawer.


----------



## FYLegend

typhoon838 said:


> What's the consensus on the quality control of the Jabra 65t? They're cheap now and I'm looking into them but I have read a lot about people complaining about their connectivity dropping, or issues with charging, or them failing after a few months


I haven't had most of those issues, but the left bud hisses at higher volumes and also clips more in certain situations. The demo Active 65t I tried at the store also had the same issue and this seems to be the most widespread complaint and has even been reported in the 75t. Not sure if there's really any units that lack the left bud hiss or if people are just listening at lower volumes.

I'm not sure if mine actually failed but the right bud is now lower in volume. I noticed that when I insert the buds into my ear it still sounds fine but then gradually dips in volume. Then I read a fix was to use a needle and pry out lint from the bass vent - this worked very well the first time but not anymore. Aside from multi-point connection and ambient hearthrough I can't really recommend it at this day and age.

I struggled to get a good seal out of these and the passive isolation is poor, sometimes I'd hear the bass to be very deep but other times I found them to be bass-light.


----------



## typhoon838

FYLegend said:


> I haven't had most of those issues, but the left bud hisses at higher volumes and also clips more in certain situations. The demo Active 65t I tried at the store also had the same issue and this seems to be the most widespread complaint and has even been reported in the 75t. Not sure if there's really any units that lack the left bud hiss or if people are just listening at lower volumes.
> 
> I'm not sure if mine actually failed but the right bud is now lower in volume. I noticed that when I insert the buds into my ear it still sounds fine but then gradually dips in volume. Then I read a fix was to use a needle and pry out lint from the bass vent - this worked very well the first time but not anymore. Aside from multi-point connection and ambient hearthrough I can't really recommend it at this day and age.
> 
> I struggled to get a good seal out of these and the passive isolation is poor, sometimes I'd hear the bass to be very deep but other times I found them to be bass-light.



Thank you!


----------



## PixelSquish

TheNikB said:


> Corrected my post! Muse have been a bit tired when writing it out hah sorry! They are the MTW2.
> 
> And yes yes, the were good, not excellent!
> 
> ...



I too found the stock MTW2 tips to be terrible. I use symbios for my wired Dunu and both my Meze IEM's but for the MTW2's I use these el cheapo's I got on Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07P5FZW7J/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

I like my music loud so I too listen to the MTW2's almost maxed out most of the time. I found the same thing happening with my Beats solo 3 on ear wireless headphones as well. They didn't get quite as loud as I wanted them to get so they were also maxed out most of the time. I got used to it though. I use the MTW2's at least an hour a day walking my dog and keep the volume at 80-100% and am quite happy with them. Listen to mostly indie pop along with some electronic music and the sound is really good. Curious to hear if other true wireless buds really get that much louder.


----------



## FYLegend

After further testing of my replacement TaoTronics 94, I'm afraid I will have to reduce the rating once more. Although it seems like the earbud could last for another cycle I'm not getting more than 10 hours of play time before the charging case is depleted, and the fact that the battery-dead case (which still has enough power to make the last LED indicator flash) turns on the earbuds is also very frustrating. 360 mAh just doesn't seem enough for a ANC product. Wondering if 20Decebel or TOZO NC9 has the same issue.

Also I've been seeing a number of ads for budget ANC TWS like the Lavanda Lune and a few others. They look like they use the same basic shell design as the other three.


----------



## assassin10000

Luke Skywalker said:


> Haha.  I use mine for running and tried to put my favorite tips (Acoustune AET08) on today but the stem is so short that they fall off or stick inside my ear when I put the earbuds out.  Pain in the butt given that my XM3's, Nuarl N6P, and JH Lola's all have the regular tips that the AET08's fit on perfectly.  The other thing is the case is to tiny that almost any tip I use makes it really difficult to close the case
> 
> I wonder if it would be a horrible idea to use something sticky to keep the tips on the stems?  Superglue is a little bit too permanent for me





AudioNoob said:


> Water based rubber cement



E8000 glue. Semi permanent (will peel or scrape off). E6000 will also work but is a bit stronger.


----------



## DB10

AudioNoob said:


> Hopefully they'll add optional play pause for removing an earpiece, though I don't mind it.
> I'm using Final E tips, they are my go-to tips by far, they are very soft and seal well, and come in a good range of sizes.



Hi, I really love the Final E tips, the main problem is that here, in my country (Spain) they are quite difficult to find, and I have found one dealer but only has one standard package with mixed sizes. Any European here who know where to purchase them?. In my CA Andromeda I have achieved the best possible sound (for me) using the Final E tips.

Thanks!!!


----------



## baskingshark

DB10 said:


> Hi, I really love the Final E tips, the main problem is that here, in my country (Spain) they are quite difficult to find, and I have found one dealer but only has one standard package with mixed sizes. Any European here who know where to purchase them?. In my CA Andromeda I have achieved the best possible sound (for me) using the Final E tips.
> 
> Thanks!!!



One option is to buy a cheap Final audio product eg Final E500 or E1000 and the Final E tips come with it.

I heard the Kinera Tyr comes with Final E tips too, haven't tried it though, I think it costs $25 USD and the tips themselves sell at $15 USD. (Mass)drop was selling the Final E500 at $20 USD too, so you can see it as buying the tips and getting a free IEM on top of it haha. I don't stay in Europe though, dunno if (Mass)drop imposes VAT and maybe then it isn't that worth it.

I love the Final E tips too, tames the treble and tightens the bass, great set of tips.


----------



## jant71 (Sep 11, 2020)

New Radius with a focus on sound quality...
https://www.translatetheweb.com/?re...ttps://www.radius.co.jp/products/hp-nx500bt/#
*news*
Reduces the occurrence of sound interruptions
*Radius, fully wireless "HP-NX500BT" with original FLW structure driver*

Radius will release the completely wireless earphone "HP-NX500BT" equipped with the original technology "FLW structure driver" that suppresses noise in October. The price is open, but it is expected to be sold for around 18,000 yen excluding tax. Available in red, black, and blue.



"HP-NX500BT" (red)

Newly developed dynamic driver with a diameter of 9.8 mm. The FLW structure (Floating Lead Wire system) is a unique aerial wiring technology that connects the lead wire of the voice coil to the diaphragm from the cavity in the center of the driver unit and connects it to the PCB on the back without adhering it to the diaphragm. Reduces the occurrence of rolling (unnatural amplitude) without giving a heavy load. In particular, it is assumed that the turbidity of the entire sound is eliminated by significantly suppressing the noise in the bass range with a large amplitude, the transient characteristics are excellent, and a clear sound image and localization are realized.



Image of FLW structure driver

SPCCAW (SP-copper clad aluminum wire), which is lighter than ordinary copper wire, is used for the voice coil. As a result, the high response of the diaphragm was realized, and excellent extension of the treble range and crisp bass reproduction were made possible.

Qualcomm "QCC3020" is used for the SoC. The antenna gain and radio wave directivity have been improved by optimizing the placement of parts around the chip antenna and designing a unique PCB pattern that expands the effective area of the antenna.

In addition, the impedance matching circuit uses high-quality Japanese-made inductance with excellent high-frequency characteristics, and by dramatically improving the characteristics of "VSWR (Voltage Standing Wave Ratio)", which indicates the degree of signal loss, during music playback. Realized reduction of sound interruption.

Bluetooth 5.0, codec supports SBC / AAC / aptX. TWS Plus is also supported. In addition to being able to operate with a touch sensor, the main unit is equipped with IPX4 drip-proof performance.

The earpiece has a unique shape that fits deeper in the ear. In addition, the mounting position of the earpiece can be adjusted in two steps by the protrusion provided on the earport. The maximum continuous music playback time is about 5 hours and 30 minutes with the earphone body, and up to 27 hours and 30 minutes when used in combination with the charging case (both measured values).



Lineup of 3 colors


----------



## gibletzor

Tranya is coming out with another new set.  The T10 were 12mm drivers, these are 14.2mm!  Hopefully they should better than the T10s did.


----------



## jant71

gibletzor said:


> Tranya is coming out with another new set.  The T10 were 12mm drivers, these are 14.2mm!  Hopefully they should better than the T10s did.



Nice find! They should say bass boost function. How many people will see "Bass Boosted Sound" and think that it is not for them soundwise when it may be fine w/o the bass boost. You are right it all depends on on the improvement. If they are the "ultimate" model they better be a nice step up.


----------



## hmscott

gibletzor said:


> Tranya is coming out with another new set.  The T10 were 12mm drivers, these are 14.2mm!  Hopefully they should better than the T10s did.


Received a discount code for 30% off from Tranya for the M10:  Promo code: 30M10 30% discount
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/the-discovery-thread.586909/post-15857145


----------



## d3myz (Sep 11, 2020)

gibletzor said:


> Tranya is coming out with another new set.  The T10 were 12mm drivers, these are 14.2mm!  Hopefully they should better than the T10s did.


Man, I really hope they improve the sound quality. I loved almost everything about the T10, with the exception of the almost overbearing mid range and lack of high end detail. Also, they weren't truly IPX 7. I took them in the shower and one bud stopped working for a day. It never came back to full output. I'm excited about the new form factor of the M10.


----------



## Caipirina (Sep 12, 2020)

chinmie said:


> Anyone wants to try copy of XM3 for cheap?
> https://a.aliexpress.com/_d7n6Co4
> 
> It uses Airoha chipset and has true ANC. I'm curious on how it fares to the original in sound and ANC quality



Nearly half a year later I can report on these:
a) they work
b) the ANC actually works (and not too bad)
c) the OLED screen is kinda neat (but much smaller than the reflective surface makes it appear)
d) they sound like shiitake mushrooms ... totally muffled ... no joy there really ... what a shame ...
e) case and buds are a slight tad smaller than the XM3
f) they look MUCH cheaper than the XM3 ... cheapo plastic!
g) improvement over the XM3: the case can stand! 







They might have been interesting 6 months ago, but by now we have so many more and better entries in the budget ANC game ... unless you see them somewhere for 20$ and you feel like 'hoarding' ... I can't really recommend these

(They are also known as the 'Evon Pro', that's at least what the box is saying)


Semi related, it appears that OneOdio jumped on that form factor bandwagon for their first (AFAIK) tws entry ... but with nifty wings and no OLED screen (also, now that I check, they have 4 charging contacts, those Evons have only 3)


----------



## mikp

Caipirina said:


> Nearly half a year later I can report on these:
> a) they work
> b) the ANC actually works (and not too bad)
> c) the OLED screen is kinda neat
> ...



im waiting for a graphene tws with blockchain tech, solar powered with GaN charging case.


----------



## gibletzor

d3myz said:


> Man, I really hope they improve the sound quality. I loved almost everything about the T10, with the exception of the almost overbearing mid range and lack of high end detail. Also, they weren't truly IPX 7. I took them in the shower and one bud stopped working for a day. It never came back to full output. I'm excited about the new form factor of the M10.


I agree.  I use my T10s for mowing and what not outside because they get louder than most of my other TWS except my L2P.  They sound good enough for that, but I'd rather have a B530 with bass boost.  I'm hoping the M10 is just that!


----------



## Caipirina

mikp said:


> im waiting for a graphene tws with blockchain tech, solar powered with GaN charging case.


I sense sarcasm? GaN?


----------



## DB10

baskingshark said:


> One option is to buy a cheap Final audio product eg Final E500 or E1000 and the Final E tips come with it.
> 
> I heard the Kinera Tyr comes with Final E tips too, haven't tried it though, I think it costs $25 USD and the tips themselves sell at $15 USD. (Mass)drop was selling the Final E500 at $20 USD too, so you can see it as buying the tips and getting a free IEM on top of it haha. I don't stay in Europe though, dunno if (Mass)drop imposes VAT and maybe then it isn't that worth it.
> 
> I love the Final E tips too, tames the treble and tightens the bass, great set of tips.


Hi!!!

Thanks for your reply, I will buy some cheap Final iems to have the tips, I would have preferred the option to buy them as spare parts, especially to avoid buying electronics that I will no use, I am trying to reduce as much as possible my electronic footprint, for environmental and social purposes.

All the best, David.


----------



## Cuebbing

I have seen a good amount of positive feedback on the Liberty 2 Pro so on a whim I bought a pair yesterday.  Initial impression/opinion is that for music (EDM/Club and Rock/Metal) these are the best TWS buds I have tried (dynamic w/good bass).  I have a decent collection of IEMs including TWS to compare with and it's good to see true wireless sets improving.  They still can't compete with a decent IEM & DAC/AMP but when you're in the mood to have the freedom of no wires these more than get the job done.  Tinkering with the custom EQ I got them sounding pretty good.  If I had a gripe it would be the size (still comfortable tho), the App is handy but could be better, could use better/bigger soundstage.  My next preferred sets are the Jabra 75t and MTW (for listening to music).  For comfort it's my Galaxy buds+ and for all rounder the Jabra 75t.  
I have a few less than memorable sets from Ankor but the L2P are a nice surprise.


----------



## jant71

https://www.translatetheweb.com/?re...=https://ifans.pixnet.net/blog/post/229590689
Interesting outlier maybe. $150 ANC model from Nakamichi. Not sure if Nakamichi USA will bring it here at all. Interesting choice of MSBC as it high quality codec.


----------



## webvan

Since Bose FR are offering a 90 day trial period well I took them up on it and...pre-ordered


----------



## chinmie

jant71 said:


> https://www.translatetheweb.com/?ref=TVert&from=&to=en&a=https://ifans.pixnet.net/blog/post/229590689
> Interesting outlier maybe. $150 ANC model from Nakamichi. Not sure if Nakamichi USA will bring it here at all. Interesting choice of MSBC as it high quality codec.



the problem that i have with Nakamichi is that it seems to me each of their products are suspiciously more like just a rebrand of other cheaper products.. this one for instance is similar (or maybe just the same) as the Airsun X8. they might do their own tuning on those, but i highly doubt it, as they didn't mention doing custom tuning on their ads.


----------



## clerkpalmer

chinmie said:


> the problem that i have with Nakamichi is that it seems to me each of their products are suspiciously more like just a rebrand of other cheaper products.. this one for instance is similar (or maybe just the same) as the Airsun X8. they might do their own tuning on those, but i highly doubt it, as they didn't mention doing custom tuning on their ads.


When I was a kid and getting into hifi stuff, Nakamichi was consider the high high end audio.  That was probably 30 years ago.  I didn't even know they were still around.


----------



## regancipher

Finally got my hands on the T1XS...worth the wait! Review


----------



## bedlamite

clerkpalmer said:


> When I was a kid and getting into hifi stuff, Nakamichi was consider the high high end audio.  That was probably 30 years ago.  I didn't even know they were still around.


They were bought over by a Chinese company some years back. The stuff they've released since then is absolute junk IMHO.


----------



## Caipirina

chinmie said:


> the problem that i have with Nakamichi is that it seems to me each of their products are suspiciously more like just a rebrand of other cheaper products.. this one for instance is similar (or maybe just the same) as the Airsun X8. they might do their own tuning on those, but i highly doubt it, as they didn't mention doing custom tuning on their ads.



I had a similar Deja Vu .. the buds look very much like the realme Buds Q


----------



## Cuebbing

bedlamite said:


> They were bought over by a Chinese company some years back. The stuff they've released since then is absolute junk IMHO.


Unfortunately this has become the case for the majority of "brands" from when I was a kid.


----------



## jant71

I saw the Nakamichi the same time as the Radius but didn't post about it then. Got what I thought would be said. Thought maybe a chance they did something with it but doubtful in 2020 they did more with the sound than a straight rebrand.


----------



## chinmie (Sep 12, 2020)

Caipirina said:


> I had a similar Deja Vu .. the buds look very much like the realme Buds Q


with the realme, the shape might be reminiscent, whereas with the Airsun is definitely more of a "splitting image" kind of deal, it's more apparent to me, because i happen to have the X8 



https://sunstardigi.m.en.alibaba.com/in_ID/productgrouplist-819209390/AIRSUN_X8.html


----------



## bronco1015

FYLegend said:


> Does anyone find fast-chargers to degrade charge performance of their TWS cases? I see many brands advising to only use 5V/1A chargers, but in my opinion this is absurd because most of my wall bricks now are quick-charge.
> 
> Today I used my Taotronics SoundLiberty 94 for no more than 3 hours and the battery is low. The 20Decebel app claims one side has 40% while the other only has 22%.


I don't know anything for sure on that, but i've always suspected as much, so i use the charging brick that came with my s4 back in the day, i've kept it around for charging headphones and can easily switch between a micro USb cord and a Type C cord.  For the pixelbuds, or anything i've owned previously that had Wireless charging, i use my wireless charger.


----------



## assassin10000

bronco1015 said:


> or anything i've owned previously that had Wireless charging, i use my wireless charger.



I'm similar but I have taken it a step further. If it doesn't have wireless charging I'm most likely going to skip it.


----------



## DynamicEars

Caipirina said:


> I had a similar Deja Vu .. the buds look very much like the realme Buds Q




Speaking of realme buds Q, anyone try this? They have relatively good specs with 10mm DD inside and told that have very good sound signature but coming from general tech website all of them. Never read reviews from audiophile buddy so im curious.


----------



## Luke Skywalker

Bhelpoori said:


> The Bose TWS has been announced:
> https://www.theverge.com/2020/9/10/...mfort-sports-earbuds-announced-features-price
> *https://www.bose.com/en_us/products/headphones/earbuds/quietcomfort-earbuds.html#v=qc_earbuds_black*
> 
> Let's hope the software is more stable than the Bose 700 over ears which has been buggy since launch, with a poor record of bug fixing.


Thanks dude, just ordered them in black


----------



## Luke Skywalker

clerkpalmer said:


> I preordered the Bose from Best Buy but I'm on the fence.  Bose.com was showing 2 to 8 days for delivery so I was rolling the dice BB would be faster  Amazon is showing October 15th release.
> 
> In any event, I'm not convinced these will be worth the money but I have some time to think about it I suppose.  By then the Nuarl will be available and will probably be substantially cheaper.  Since I don't go to the gym anymore, ANC isn't critical either.


Nice!  I'm going to get the N10's as soon as they're available too.  I go to the gym every day but I just use my N6P's when I do weights and my Jabra 65's when I'm on the treadmill (they stay in better).  I guess ANC would be cool - never really thought about it


----------



## Luke Skywalker

assassin10000 said:


> E8000 glue. Semi permanent (will peel or scrape off). E6000 will also work but is a bit stronger.


dude thanks so much, can't wait to try this.  Gets pretty old digging the tips out of my ears or crawling under my car seat looking for them when they fall off


----------



## Luke Skywalker

mikp said:


> im waiting for a graphene tws with blockchain tech, solar powered with GaN charging case.


Ya definitely! Gotta love cutting edge tech, like the new bluetooth hose


----------



## bronco1015

KevInquisition said:


> Hey there if you're looking for true wireless with ANC your options are a bit limited but in my experience the best sounding of the bunch is easily the Sony WF1000xm3. It's not exceptionally clear like a pair of custom IEMs would be, but no product that has ANC will be. I think it's the best blend of sound quality and convenience you can hope for in the wireless ANC space, and would be a really good upgrade from the sennheisers, which in my opinion are horrendous for their price. Hope this was helpful.


funny how tastes differ, While i did get a sound from the WF 1000Xm3 that i liked, out of the box horendous is exactly how i'd describe them. And, i wasn't a huge fan of the default tuning Sennheiser shiped with both MTW's. But IMO both the MTW's are voiced better, and more capable of serving a wider variety of sound preferences than the XM3 after eq. Having said all that, I did get a sound from eqing the WF XM3 that i really liked. And you can bet i'll be giving their successor a shot, especially if Sony can get battery level to last  say 6 hours while streaming in LDAC at 990K


----------



## bronco1015

TheNikB said:


> Ordering the Symbios now. Can’t hurt!
> 
> I’ve tried playing with the EQ on the MTW2 and it definitely helps but it’s weird having to listen at full volume all the time. Then when I really want to crank it up for a track I’m out of luck lol


Granted, i don't have an Iphone, but how loud do you need the MTW2 to be? I can't even get past 60% with them, that's to loud for me and they go LOUD AF!


----------



## dwells (Sep 13, 2020)

regancipher said:


> Finally got my hands on the T1XS...worth the wait! Review


Great review, but damn, now I want them even more and there’s no way I’d be able to get a pair shipped to me fore I leave in a couple weeks. Super jealous!

Do they look as good in person as they do in photos? They seem to have a more “premium” glossy white finish to them as opposed the cheaper glossy plastics.


----------



## gocam (Sep 13, 2020)

Haven't posted here for a while after going through a bout of trying a ton of TWSs at the start of the year. I've ended up with a rotation that consisted of the MW07 Go, Cleer Ally Plus, Mavin Air XR(Qi) and Nuarl N6Ps. All I still use and love, all support Aptx
+ Nuarl N6P - bulky but still great sounding (although hard to get a good comfy fit). They sound excellent. Not the best on the move, but great connectivity & reasonable isolation from the outside world.
+ MW07 Go - comfortable, good sound, rock solid connectivity, compact. I reach for these more often recently as they are easy to wear and fit well. Good isolation.
+ Cleer Ally Plus - Great for wearing around town and ambient noisier environments, and they were one of the first sets to use the QCC set that the Apollo Bold seems to utilise w/ANC and have the same form factor (although the UI is probably closer to the Zen's which, again, share the same shell and components it looks like). Hard to get an awesome fit, but the NC compensates. OK connection, but I do experience dropouts sometimes or crackles when I turn my head too far - odd.
+ Mavin Air-XR(Qi) - I've taken to using these a bit more recently. They sound weakest of the four, but still pretty good and they are very very compact and comfortable, fantastic for cycling (in a safe environment). Rock solid connection.

So I guess that I'll reach for the N6Ps when I know I won't be moving much, the Mavin's with a lot of activity, and for urban wandering the Cleer Ally's or the MW's.

I decided to take the plunge this week and pick up a pair of heavily discounted Klipsch T5s ( 1st gen - 69.95 from Amazon new ) - I picked them up Prime as there is surpringly little about them here or in other reviews and the comments tend to fixate on issues with firmware update, dropouts and fit. BUT - I knew there was a new firmware update so I figured I'd try my best to get that on there and take it from there. And lo and behold, they sounds phenomenal ! Great tuning, reasonable battery life, decent on calls, the app and firmware update was a total total pain, but it worked, and now I can e.g. use the EQ on the app. App has decent help on it, surprisingly, but the best surprise for me is --- fantastic sound, and, when I got a good fit, they are surprisingly comfortable. They come with only 6 (!) silicon tips, which is super chintzy, and moreover you can't (at least easily) use other tips as the supplied oval tips have a plastic snap on way of mounting. Groan. But I've been listening all day with zero fatigue and they sound wonderful. I am curious if any others here have given them a whirl recently, and if not I highly recommend if you get a good Prime price (so you can return if issues). I am, at least currently, very pleasantly surprised. If there is one downside I will say that they have the same connectivity glitches as the Cleer Ally's and at one point I got into stage where the phone was only using the right bud, but that seems to have cleared up. The app & software experience is quirky and the button interface not wonderful, but they sound really good.

Another headphone I am tempted by is the Edifier TWS 6 which is half price now on the Edison web site, I wonder if that's another set that fell of everyones' radar, but but actually sounds better than expected ? No firmware updates it seems possible, however. I was also tempted by discount Sennheiser Momentum 1s, but the battery/case drain issues seem very very tiresome.

I would love it if somebody here can compare the Bold, Zen and Cleer Ally Plus - if they are, to all intents identical, I'd just advise that folks pick up the cheapest one (the Zen ,currently $70 on amazon) - its design and touch input appear identical to the Ally's, and it's half the price ( and less than the Bold ). Personally I really don't care much about the buttons on the buds for control, but I know that's more of an issue for others


----------



## RyGuy139252

Hey what would y’all say is the better pick between the Apollo Bold and the Liberty Air 2?

Is ANC worth it?


----------



## d3myz

DB10 said:


> Hi!!!
> 
> Thanks for your reply, I will buy some cheap Final iems to have the tips, I would have preferred the option to buy them as spare parts, especially to avoid buying electronics that I will no use, I am trying to reduce as much as possible my electronic footprint, for environmental and social purposes.
> 
> All the best, David.


I'm also going to buy some cheap Final IEMs. I'm excited about these tips, I recently tried both  the standard and the Air Pod Pro versions of the AZLA SednaEarfit XELASTEC and they were really difficult for me to get seated in my canals. I tried multiple sizes and IEMs. Super disappointed I really wanted to like them. I will say this, once you get them in, they stay put.


----------



## d3myz

baskingshark said:


> One option is to buy a cheap Final audio product eg Final E500 or E1000 and the Final E tips come with it.
> 
> I heard the Kinera Tyr comes with Final E tips too, haven't tried it though, I think it costs $25 USD and the tips themselves sell at $15 USD. (Mass)drop was selling the Final E500 at $20 USD too, so you can see it as buying the tips and getting a free IEM on top of it haha. I don't stay in Europe though, dunno if (Mass)drop imposes VAT and maybe then it isn't that worth it.
> 
> I love the Final E tips too, tames the treble and tightens the bass, great set of tips.


I just picked up a pair of Tyr's on Ali Express, specifically for the Tips, I guess i'll know in a month if I like them.


----------



## baskingshark

d3myz said:


> I just picked up a pair of Tyr's on Ali Express, specifically for the Tips, I guess i'll know in a month if I like them.



Nice. On the store pages, it looks like 6 pairs of Final E tips are provided with purchase. Look forward to your review man.

I'm thinking of getting more Final E tips via this method (buying a cheap Final product or this Kinera Tyr for the tips), but the wife will kill me if more IEMs appear in the mail LOL, so I'll stick to just buying the Final E tips as it is.


----------



## DB10

d3myz said:


> I'm also going to buy some cheap Final IEMs. I'm excited about these tips, I recently tried both  the standard and the Air Pod Pro versions of the AZLA SednaEarfit XELASTEC and they were really difficult for me to get seated in my canals. I tried multiple sizes and IEMs. Super disappointed I really wanted to like them. I will say this, once you get them in, they stay put.




Hi, I have bought the Ikko i-Planet that you recommended me in this thread for my Galaxy Buds +, they fit fine and the sound is great, quite a good tips (foam type). I bought the M size.

Thanks for all your help and advice!!!


----------



## chinmie

sold two of my BT20S afterwards, i might sell that BT20 too later 
this way it's easier to convert into wired too with just one cable, as long as the earguides on the cable are removed


----------



## DigDub

Sennheiser mtw2 75th anniversary edition. Has a black touch plate instead of the silver one and different logo.

https://en-sg.sennheiser.com/momentumtruewireless-2-anniversary


----------



## jant71

DigDub said:


> Sennheiser mtw2 75th anniversary edition. Has a black touch plate instead of the silver one and different logo.
> 
> https://en-sg.sennheiser.com/momentumtruewireless-2-anniversary



Senn refresh time. Know it well. 

Was looking at the CX 400BT. I know no noise cancelling but they took away more than a full charge from the case, no auto pause, no transparency, and not even IPX rated anymore. Take $100 off and all the features away.

Why Senn has that negative big brand we don't try  cause we live off of our name thing going. Lower model with barebones features and the milestone anniversary giving the additions of being all black and... that's it.

Like Bose. Checked out the new Sport. Hey $180. Just buy it cause we are BOSE. 15 hours battery total, no transparency, only mics in the right earbud, IPX4 is low for a sports bud, no rewind a track, no mention of codecs but obviously only SBC and AAC. You get no ability for tip change and all ears are the same so fins and tips combined like nobody would ever like a large tip and a smaller fin or other such combo.


----------



## Bhelpoori

Luke Skywalker said:


> Nice!  I'm going to get the N10's as soon as they're available too.  I go to the gym every day but I just use my N6P's when I do weights and my Jabra 65's when I'm on the treadmill (they stay in better).  I guess ANC would be cool - never really thought about it


I too am looking at the Nuarls and the Bose, the former for ANC and SQ, the latter for microphones and ANC. For me, unless there is Etymotic passive noise cancelling, I need ANC given my use cases.

Please share your thoughts on them when you get them...


----------



## hifi80sman

jant71 said:


> Like Bose. Checked out the new Sport. Hey $180. Just buy it cause we are BOSE. 15 hours battery total, no transparency, only mics in the right earbud, IPX4 is low for a sports bud, no rewind a track, no mention of codecs but obviously only SBC and AAC. You get no ability for tip change and all ears are the same so fins and tips combined like nobody would ever like a large tip and a smaller fin or other such combo.


It'll be interesting to see what the controls will be, as they seem to be touting customization.  It is a bit odd they don't also provide reassurances the typical functions will be available. Not sure if it's poor engineering or poor marketing.  We shall see.

They also note 4 total mics and calls in both buds in the new sports version and an air-tight seal this time around.  If track controls are there, I may jump, as I've found comfort is great with Bose.


----------



## FYLegend

gibletzor said:


> Tranya is coming out with another new set.  The T10 were 12mm drivers, these are 14.2mm!  Hopefully they should better than the T10s did.


4 mics but no ambient sound or ANC...


jant71 said:


> https://www.translatetheweb.com/?ref=TVert&from=&to=en&a=https://ifans.pixnet.net/blog/post/229590689
> Interesting outlier maybe. $150 ANC model from Nakamichi. Not sure if Nakamichi USA will bring it here at all. Interesting choice of MSBC as it high quality codec.


MSBC isn't high quality, it's what's used for the hands-free profile for calls on Windows 10 with 16khz mono audio. My Bluetooth 4.2 Astrotec S60 has it listed in the spec sheet as well.



chinmie said:


> the problem that i have with Nakamichi is that it seems to me each of their products are suspiciously more like just a rebrand of other cheaper products.. this one for instance is similar (or maybe just the same) as the Airsun X8. they might do their own tuning on those, but i highly doubt it, as they didn't mention doing custom tuning on their ads.


Just wondering if you know how the Airsun X8 compares against 20Decebel, Tronsmart Apollo Bold?


----------



## Bhelpoori (Sep 13, 2020)

hifi80sman said:


> It'll be interesting to see what the controls will be, as they seem to be touting customization.  It is a bit odd they don't also provide reassurances the typical functions will be available. Not sure if it's poor engineering or poor marketing.  We shall see.
> 
> They also note 4 total mics and calls in both buds in the new sports version and an air-tight seal this time around.  If track controls are there, I may jump, as I've found comfort is great with Bose.


You can find the Bose manual at: https://assets.bose.com/content/dam...df/840344_og_bose-quietcomfort-earbuds_en.pdf

Customisation is minimal...Skip a track available only. No volume control.


----------



## hifi80sman

Bhelpoori said:


> You can find the Bose manual at: https://assets.bose.com/content/dam...df/840344_og_bose-quietcomfort-earbuds_en.pdf
> 
> Customisation is minimal...Skip a track available only. No volume control.


Major fail here by Bose.  $279 and no volume control or track rewind?  I can deal with no volume control, but just track skip?  Nah, bruh.


----------



## webvan

Yes the controls are indeed very limited...For audiobooks it's nice to be able to go back 10 seconds by mapping the "previous track" control for instance.
Also it doesn't seem you can turn the ANC OFF from the earbuds which promises to be a big problems when riding a bike (when it's legal/safe to do so with earbuds) without picking up some annoying noise. Hopefully it can at least be done from the app.


----------



## jant71

hifi80sman said:


> It'll be interesting to see what the controls will be, as they seem to be touting customization.  It is a bit odd they don't also provide reassurances the typical functions will be available. Not sure if it's poor engineering or poor marketing.  We shall see.
> 
> They also note 4 total mics and calls in both buds in the new sports version and an air-tight seal this time around.  If track controls are there, I may jump, as I've found comfort is great with Bose.



I was going by the manual which says...


----------



## regancipher

This month has been a real mixed bag. 5 remain, 3 are gone. No surprises which ones!




Made sure I used high quality sources for my sampling  M4a sounded better than I thought it would to be fair!


----------



## chinmie

regancipher said:


> This month has been a real mixed bag. 5 remain, 3 are gone. No surprises which ones!
> 
> 
> Made sure I used high quality sources for my sampling  M4a sounded better than I thought it would to be fair!



so, which 5 that you keep? 



FYLegend said:


> 4 mics but no ambient sound or ANC...
> 
> MSBC isn't high quality, it's what's used for the hands-free profile for calls on Windows 10 with 16khz mono audio. My Bluetooth 4.2 Astrotec S60 has it listed in the spec sheet as well.
> 
> ...



i don't have the 20decebel. between the X8 and the Bold, ANC more or less on the same level with X8 cuts more noise on the mids, while the Bold cuts more on the bass. 

soundwise the Bold is bass heavy with clear mids and treble, while the X8 is more neutral, more rolled off highs, really pleasant for long session. 

X8 has that nice velvety rubber coating on the unit and the case. the button controls are also great. i also like that i can turn them on/off from the unit

the cons of the X8 that i can list are:
-must use short TWS tips. regular tips can fit, but the lid of the case must be padded so it can charge
-the L and R unit sometimes can go out of sync, making the stereo field wider that it supposed to. luckily fixing it is easy, i just have to cup both of the earpiece with my hands for a second, and it will go back to normal
- range is not as far compared to Qualcomm and Airoha based TWSs


----------



## monmamon (Sep 13, 2020)

Can i get an advice on my first TWS purchase? Thank you!
FIIL T1XS or Lypertek TEVI? or are there better ones for $100?

scarbir.com
FIIL T1XS - 5/5
Lypertek TEVI - 4/5


----------



## hifi80sman

jant71 said:


> I was going by the manual which says...


Seems the manual and their FAQ are on different pages.  Pun intended.

Bose is getting sloppy.


----------



## typhoon838

Just got my Apollo Bolds today and first impressions are that I LOVE them. Been looking forever for a pair of TWS with ambient mode that has a bass centric sound profile, and these seam to fit the bill without compromising on overall sound quality. ANC is a nice added bonus. They're big, but not very heavy, and I'm used to the large profile of the Tranya T3s so it's not bothersome. 

Bass is very nice, and not overwhelming at all for me, although that could just be because of my listening preferences and taste. I am absolutely a basshead and these sound great to me, maybe even a bit sparkly. 

One thing though, the design of the casing for the Apollos presses pretty snugly against my outer ear and so I don't feel like I'm able to get the ear tips in as far as I want, which makes me feel like I'm not getting a proper seal. I am wondering if that is the reason I'm not perceiving the bass to be as dominant as others have made it sound. Anybody have any suggestions for longer/deeper eartips that might help with that? I just don't feel like I'm getting quite the seal that I'd get with, say, my Tranya B530s, which have smaller eartips but because of the contoured design of the casing, slide deeper into my ear and give an unmistakable seal feeling. I'm just not getting that with the Apollos, and I've tried the tips from other TWS that I have and none of them seem to get deep enough in my ear because of the size/shape of the casing.


----------



## DB10

regancipher said:


> This month has been a real mixed bag. 5 remain, 3 are gone. No surprises which ones!
> 
> 
> Made sure I used high quality sources for my sampling  M4a sounded better than I thought it would to be fair!



Hi, quite a good collection!!! Both you and @Caipirina (and I think that there are more people with so many different models here), surprise me with all your TWS, I would like being able to test so many different products!!!


----------



## gdv brisbane

typhoon838 said:


> Just got my Apollo Bolds today and first impressions are that I LOVE them.



Out of interest, did you pay for them or were they a free review sample?


----------



## Caipirina (Sep 14, 2020)

You know you dabble too much in TWS when you watch a Korean Zombie movie and you are like


Havit G1 ... and possibly Galaxy Buds ...


#Alive


----------



## regancipher

typhoon838 said:


> Just got my Apollo Bolds today and first impressions are that I LOVE them. Been looking forever for a pair of TWS with ambient mode that has a bass centric sound profile, and these seam to fit the bill without compromising on overall sound quality. ANC is a nice added bonus. They're big, but not very heavy, and I'm used to the large profile of the Tranya T3s so it's not bothersome.
> 
> Bass is very nice, and not overwhelming at all for me, although that could just be because of my listening preferences and taste. I am absolutely a basshead and these sound great to me, maybe even a bit sparkly.
> 
> One thing though, the design of the casing for the Apollos presses pretty snugly against my outer ear and so I don't feel like I'm able to get the ear tips in as far as I want, which makes me feel like I'm not getting a proper seal. I am wondering if that is the reason I'm not perceiving the bass to be as dominant as others have made it sound. Anybody have any suggestions for longer/deeper eartips that might help with that? I just don't feel like I'm getting quite the seal that I'd get with, say, my Tranya B530s, which have smaller eartips but because of the contoured design of the casing, slide deeper into my ear and give an unmistakable seal feeling. I'm just not getting that with the Apollos, and I've tried the tips from other TWS that I have and none of them seem to get deep enough in my ear because of the size/shape of the casing.



They aren't designed to go into your ear canal like some earbuds, like the FIIL T1XS are, for example, due to the oval shape to the driver housing..

The best approach with the Apollo is to use the largest buds you can to fill the area around your concha. My review here: https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/tronsmart-apollo-bold.24533/reviews#item-review-24119 illustrates how to get the best out of them.


----------



## regancipher

chinmie said:


> so, which 5 that you keep?



Tronsmart Apollo Bold (for general use & specific music types) - Review
Edifier TWS NB2 (for calls during the day) - Review
FIIL T1XS (for sports and general use, all music types) - Review
Tronsmart Onyx Free - Review & 
Whizzer E3 (for relaxing and listening to audiobooks in bed) - Review


----------



## AudioNoob

typhoon838 said:


> One thing though, the design of the casing for the Apollos presses pretty snugly against my outer ear and so I don't feel like I'm able to get the ear tips in as far as I want, which makes me feel like I'm not getting a proper seal. I am wondering if that is the reason I'm not perceiving the bass to be as dominant as others have made it sound. Anybody have any suggestions for longer/deeper eartips that might help with that? I just don't feel like I'm getting quite the seal that I'd get with, say, my Tranya B530s, which have smaller eartips but because of the contoured design of the casing, slide deeper into my ear and give an unmistakable seal feeling. I'm just not getting that with the Apollos, and I've tried the tips from other TWS that I have and none of them seem to get deep enough in my ear because of the size/shape of the casing.


Final E tips are the longest you can get probably, and their taper and silicone thickness make them very sealing, they also come with half sizes. Anything larger than ML you might need to add a thin sheet of foam to the lid.


----------



## Caipirina

DB10 said:


> Hi, quite a good collection!!! Both you and @Caipirina (and I think that there are more people with so many different models here), surprise me with all your TWS, I would like being able to test so many different products!!!



My testing days are over for now ... I enjoyed the access I had to amazon over the summer (boy did I send back A LOT  ... I am still going through some stuff that I received over the summer (from that smack at the beginning of covid19 March sale) but most of that is obsolete by now anyways ... some annoying AliExpress experience among them (like my Ugreens must have damaged batteries and wont charge more than 30% .. something called 'Makibes' arrived with a soundless left bud, all these things are now beyond dispute time .. so, gotta count my losses) ... 

From here on out .. well, I am considering schemes of possibly having the Bose shipped here ... but that's quite a lot of money to possibly lose in the mail and max I can insure it is 50€ .. and when it's insured, customs gets curious .. so .. rather not ... 

AliExpress is out for me as well, most sellers don't ship to Sri Lanka anymore or they ask for 50$ EMS / DHL shipping ... so ... maybe I find a shady seller that offers the first GBeans copy and ships old style free


----------



## logiatype

Nuarl N10 Pro looking phat:







https://twitter.com/eear_yoko/status/1302851655373742080?s=20


----------



## regancipher

Caipirina said:


> My testing days are over for now ... I enjoyed the access I had to amazon over the summer (boy did I send back A LOT  ... I am still going through some stuff that I received over the summer (from that smack at the beginning of covid19 March sale) but most of that is obsolete by now anyways ... some annoying AliExpress experience among them (like my Ugreens must have damaged batteries and wont charge more than 30% .. something called 'Makibes' arrived with a soundless left bud, all these things are now beyond dispute time .. so, gotta count my losses) ...
> 
> From here on out .. well, I am considering schemes of possibly having the Bose shipped here ... but that's quite a lot of money to possibly lose in the mail and max I can insure it is 50€ .. and when it's insured, customs gets curious .. so .. rather not ...
> 
> AliExpress is out for me as well, most sellers don't ship to Sri Lanka anymore or they ask for 50$ EMS / DHL shipping ... so ... maybe I find a shady seller that offers the first GBeans copy and ships old style free



I'm the same until the next big release. I sent 3 pairs back to Amazon today, and sold a spare set of FIIL. I think I'm waiting for one more from Aliexpress....Alien Secret, due tomorrow, then a little breather!


----------



## jant71

logiatype said:


> Nuarl N10 Pro looking phat:
> 
> 
> 
> https://twitter.com/eear_yoko/status/1302851655373742080?s=20



You mean FAT!


----------



## Caipirina

ROFL


----------



## typhoon838

AudioNoob said:


> Final E tips are the longest you can get probably, and their taper and silicone thickness make them very sealing, they also come with half sizes. Anything larger than ML you might need to add a thin sheet of foam to the lid.



I have no clue how I know what size to get!

And to whoever asked, I bought my Apollos, I tried to get into the giveaway but wasn't chosen.


----------



## gibletzor

Caipirina said:


> ROFL


I saw this from Android Police on twitter this morning!  And they're refusing to give One Plus the shipment back because even though they've proven they're not Airpods counterfeits, Customs says they violate Apple's design patents.  Crazy!


----------



## Laethageal

logiatype said:


> Nuarl N10 Pro looking phat:
> 
> 
> 
> https://twitter.com/eear_yoko/status/1302851655373742080?s=20



Waayyy too big.
Only Jumbo would be able to wear this!


----------



## Caipirina

gibletzor said:


> I saw this from Android Police on twitter this morning!  And they're refusing to give One Plus the shipment back because even though they've proven they're not Airpods counterfeits, Customs says they violate Apple's design patents.  Crazy!


“The Shape of the AirPods”
Could this be Apple ‘s next Fortnite?


----------



## voicemaster

Pretty excited to received my BT20s pro today. It took about 9 days so it isn't that bad. I bought it through amazon tho which is $10 more expensive than ordering through Alie. First impression is that the case is kind of huge, but it is not a normal tws so its not a problem. The built quality is much better than bt20s. The plastic seems more solid, the hook is more elastic and doesn't pinch your ear too much. The body is also bigger than the previous model. 
Compare to the bt20s, the volume seems much louder with the pro. I could barely hear any hiss when turning it up to max volume on my pc. At around 77% system volume, it is plenty loud whereas with the bt20s, I usually use around 84%. I paired it with my Bl02 and I am liking the sound so far.


----------



## AudioNoob

typhoon838 said:


> I have no clue how I know what size to get!
> 
> And to whoever asked, I bought my Apollos, I tried to get into the giveaway but wasn't chosen.


They come in a multipack with all the five sizes, I actually use a half size up on one ear


----------



## chinmie

typhoon838 said:


> I have no clue how I know what size to get!
> 
> And to whoever asked, I bought my Apollos, I tried to get into the giveaway but wasn't chosen.



i usually use L size on most other eartips brands, with the Final E i'm using the LL. The L also fits, but a bit smaller than usual L size of other brands

here's a size chart that i found on the E tips:




voicemaster said:


> Pretty excited to received my BT20s pro today. It took about 9 days so it isn't that bad. I bought it through amazon tho which is $10 more expensive than ordering through Alie. First impression is that the case is kind of huge, but it is not a normal tws so its not a problem. The built quality is much better than bt20s. The plastic seems more solid, the hook is more elastic and doesn't pinch your ear too much. The body is also bigger than the previous model.
> Compare to the bt20s, the volume seems much louder with the pro. I could barely hear any hiss when turning it up to max volume on my pc. At around 77% system volume, it is plenty loud whereas with the bt20s, I usually use around 84%. I paired it with my Bl02 and I am liking the sound so far.



https://www.head-fi.org/threads/goi...soon-or-are-we-there-yet.861024/post-15860725

i think they nailed it on this version. i like it so much after i got it that i immediately purchase a few more connectors. it works as a connector saver too for my mmcx IEMs, as i can just leave the small cable attached to my IEMs and just plug 2pin cables to them.


----------



## voicemaster

It is definitely better to just detached the 2 pin part instead of the mmcx connection. I just ordered the mmcx earhook from alie just now. So far tho it is working great with bl02. Plenty of power, clean sound and you can just put it in the case without detaching the iem. If they can just decrease the case size a little bit or make it thinner, it will be perfect imho.


----------



## voicemaster

A few group shots of TRN BT20 family.


----------



## DRuM

Hi guys. Just a general question. I've not kept up with IEM trends or visited head-fi for quite a while and I notice the wireless market has really taken off now. I see there are many people in this thread enjoying all different brands. Just wondering, are there any wireless IEMs yet that are as good for critical listening as wired? I've owned my iBasso IT01 for a couple of years and would never sell them, I think they sound amazing. Would I find wireless with the same level of SQ and if so, can I presume they'd be a lot more expensive?


----------



## BobJS

Laethageal said:


> Waayyy too big.
> Only Jumbo would be able to wear this!



Dumbo (the elephant)?


----------



## baskingshark

DRuM said:


> Hi guys. Just a general question. I've not kept up with IEM trends or visited head-fi for quite a while and I notice the wireless market has really taken off now. I see there are many people in this thread enjoying all different brands. Just wondering, are there any wireless IEMs yet that are as good for critical listening as wired? I've owned my iBasso IT01 for a couple of years and would never sell them, I think they sound amazing. Would I find wireless with the same level of SQ and if so, can I presume they'd be a lot more expensive?



One "hybrid" option is to get a BT adapter like the TRN BT20, TRN BT20S, TRN BT20S Pro or iBasso CF01 and pair it with a detachable cable IEM like your iBasso IT01. So u can still get convenience, yet preserve the sound signature of the IEM that u like, and if the BT adapter battery dies or BT tech gets outdated, at least u still have the IEM.


----------



## DRuM

baskingshark said:


> One "hybrid" option is to get a BT adapter like the TRN BT20, TRN BT20S, TRN BT20S Pro or iBasso CF01 and pair it with a detachable cable IEM like your iBasso IT01. So u can still get convenience, yet preserve the sound signature of the IEM that u like, and if the BT adapter battery dies or BT tech gets outdated, at least u still have the IEM.



Thanks baskingshark, very interesting and a good idea, I didn't know about BT adapters for IEMs. The iBasso CF01 makes the most sense to get but rather pricey at £140, that's more than the cost of my IEMs! The TRN BT20S with MMCX connector is affordable at £56. But then I'm wondering how much the sound quality will be affected in colouration, possible reduction of bass, mids and treble, or crackle? I guess there'll be user reviews and opinions on here that I can search for.


----------



## baskingshark

DRuM said:


> Thanks baskingshark, very interesting and a good idea, I didn't know about BT adapters for IEMs. The iBasso CF01 makes the most sense to get but rather pricey at £140, that's more than the cost of my IEMs! The TRN BT20S with MMCX connector is affordable at £56. But then I'm wondering how much the sound quality will be affected in colouration, possible reduction of bass, mids and treble, or crackle? I guess there'll be user reviews and opinions on here that I can search for.



I've seen the TRN BT20S going at about $25 USD during sales actually (on aliexpress). It is quite good in sound quality, only thing the TRN BT20S hisses with highly sensitive IEMs. It actually doesn't colour the sound much IMO, but I do find that there's a minute reduction of subbass and higher treble, but not too noticeable when on the go actually. The convenience it brings to the table much outweighs these areas, but YMMV.

There's a newer TRN BT20S Pro that has a charging box and detachable modules (for 2 pin/MMCX) so u can use it with different IEMs. That just recently came out, so best u ask the rest who got it as I haven't tried that. I read early impressions it has 10 hour battery life per charge (plus 3 more charges from the charging case), and doesn't hiss as bad as the TRN BT20, so this is definitely one set I have on my wishlist. I think with spare modules, the TRN BT20S Pro is about $70 - 80 USD, it just came out so I guess if u wait a few months, prices should drop later.


----------



## Shinylemon

Hey, long time lurker, think I may have posted a long while ago, but not much at all.

Recently I've been getting into TWS, so far I only have Soundpeats truengine SE and lypertek tevi, (also have a pair of phaisers bhs-780, not TWS but relevant to this post)

I'm not sure where to go from here with so many choices, I was thinking about picking up Sony wf's or m&d mw07 as you can pick either up cheaply now, but I was also wondering about more recent developments. Others I've been looking at are phaiser fusion ones (because I liked my last pair of phaisers) or tronsmart apollo. Could anyone make some recommendations? I always have a hard time deciding, I'm the kind of guy who spends hours in stores trying to decide between two different things. Thanks in advance!


----------



## DRuM (Sep 15, 2020)

baskingshark said:


> I've seen the TRN BT20S going at about $25 USD during sales actually (on aliexpress). It is quite good in sound quality, only thing the TRN BT20S hisses with highly sensitive IEMs. It actually doesn't colour the sound much IMO, but I do find that there's a minute reduction of subbass and higher treble, but not too noticeable when on the go actually. The convenience it brings to the table much outweighs these areas, but YMMV.
> 
> There's a newer TRN BT20S Pro that has a charging box and detachable modules (for 2 pin/MMCX) so u can use it with different IEMs. That just recently came out, so best u ask the rest who got it as I haven't tried that. I read early impressions it has 10 hour battery life per charge (plus 3 more charges from the charging case), and doesn't hiss as bad as the TRN BT20, so this is definitely one set I have on my wishlist. I think with spare modules, the TRN BT20S Pro is about $70 - 80 USD, it just came out so I guess if u wait a few months, prices should drop later.



Thanks, the Pro version does indeed sound like an even better option for multiple IEMs, particularly as my TFZ's have 2 pin. Yep I'm in no hurry and happy to wait for prices to drop.


----------



## chinmie (Sep 15, 2020)

i tested this Spinfit CP350 on my beloved Nillkin Go.. man.. this make me love it even more. it's closer to open earbuds/airpods now in terms of seal (which is what I'm aiming and preffered on this set), but keeping the bass amount and impact intact.
i was contemplating on buying another non-sealing TWS like the Buds live/Tronsmart Onyx Ace, but now I'm thinking that i don't need it anymore.
this is better sounding than the Sabbat X12 for me.. well to tell the truth, this Nillkin has such a unique and fitting sound for me personally anyway.
the only teeny tiny drawback this unit has is because of the old realtek chipset, it's occasionally drop signal on the right/slave unit. this is also the problem on my old TRN BT20, which uses similar realtek chip. 
if Nillkin ever thinking of updating this to a better chipset while keeping anything else the same (drivers, physical buttons, etc), i would buy it in a heartbeat.


----------



## Shinylemon

chinmie said:


> i tested this Spinfit CP350 on my beloved Nillkin Go.. man.. this make me love it even more. it's closer to open earbuds/airpods now in terms of seal (which is what I'm aiming and preffered on this set), but keeping the bass amount and impact intact.
> i was contemplating on buying another non-sealing TWS like the Buds live/Tronsmart Onyx Ace, but now I'm thinking that i don't need it anymore.
> this is better sounding than the Sabbat X12 for me.. well to tell the truth, this Nillkin has such a unique and fitting sound for me personally anyway.
> if Nillkin ever thinking of updating this to a better chipset while keeping anything else the same (drivers, physical buttons, etc), i would buy it in a heartbeat



From all the reviews I've seen, buds live are trash. Don't waste your money.


----------



## Caipirina

Shinylemon said:


> From all the reviews I've seen, buds live are trash. Don't waste your money.


I am enjoying my Buds Live aka GBeans tremendously! 

I think a lot of reviews are not getting the open / no seal / not fully ANC concept ... it's different, in terms of sound and ease (and fit) they are marvelous


----------



## Shinylemon

Caipirina said:


> I am enjoying my Buds Live aka GBeans tremendously!
> 
> I think a lot of reviews are not getting the open / no seal / not fully ANC concept ... it's different, in terms of sound and ease (and fit) they are marvelous


I'm glad to see at least one person is enjoying them! Tbh I love the design, and would love to try them out, but I'm not about to put down $250 CAD to see if I enjoy them haha.


----------



## gibletzor

Shinylemon said:


> I'm glad to see at least one person is enjoying them! Tbh I love the design, and would love to try them out, but I'm not about to put down $250 CAD to see if I enjoy them haha.


I ended up sending mine back because I had issues with keeping them securely in one spot in my ear at times, and I just couldn't justify it when my Buds+ does the job as well.  That said, I did enjoy the sound a lot and when you do get them to sit right, they're so light and small you can forget they're there.  I have odd ears so they just didn't work for me.  <shrugs>


----------



## Shinylemon

gibletzor said:


> I ended up sending mine back because I had issues with keeping them securely in one spot in my ear at times, and I just couldn't justify it when my Buds+ does the job as well.  That said, I did enjoy the sound a lot and when you do get them to sit right, they're so light and small you can forget they're there.  I have odd ears so they just didn't work for me.  <shrugs>


I know that feel, oddearshape bro, I know that feel all too well...crap sucks sometimes.


----------



## Caipirina

Shinylemon said:


> I'm glad to see at least one person is enjoying them! Tbh I love the design, and would love to try them out, but I'm not about to put down $250 CAD to see if I enjoy them haha.


I had ordered them from Amazon (when I still had access) totally ready to send them back. The first reports were tearing the ANC performance a new one  
Wonky ears are also one of my problems, so I was very smitten when they just dropped in and stayed put .. even when running ... 
One quirky feature I really enjoy and hope more TWS will make possible in app updates (appdates?  ) is the total turning off of touch fields! Too often do I pause my pana500 or apollo just by adjusting their fit ... the GBeans I can twist and turn all I want ... no worries


----------



## voicemaster

Shinylemon said:


> I'm glad to see at least one person is enjoying them! Tbh I love the design, and would love to try them out, but I'm not about to put down $250 CAD to see if I enjoy them haha.


I am loving it too. It has become my main portable tws (I even use it mainly at home too before I got my trn bt20s pro).


----------



## Luke Skywalker

hifi80sman said:


> Major fail here by Bose.  $279 and no volume control or track rewind?  I can deal with no volume control, but just track skip?  Nah, bruh.


dang... Might not have ordered them if I saw that they don't have volume adjustment


----------



## Luke Skywalker

monmamon said:


> Can i get an advice on my first TWS purchase? Thank you!
> FIIL T1XS or Lypertek TEVI? or are there better ones for $100?
> 
> scarbir.com
> ...


Nuarl N6 Pro's are my favorite however the N10 will be out soon w/ ANC


----------



## voicemaster

Caipirina said:


> I had ordered them from Amazon (when I still had access) totally ready to send them back. The first reports were tearing the ANC performance a new one
> Wonky ears are also one of my problems, so I was very smitten when they just dropped in and stayed put .. even when running ...
> One quirky feature I really enjoy and hope more TWS will make possible in app updates (appdates?  ) is the total turning off of touch fields! Too often do I pause my pana500 or apollo just by adjusting their fit ... the GBeans I can twist and turn all I want ... no worries


I too turn the touch feature off 99% of the time.


----------



## TK33

DRuM said:


> Hi guys. Just a general question. I've not kept up with IEM trends or visited head-fi for quite a while and I notice the wireless market has really taken off now. I see there are many people in this thread enjoying all different brands. Just wondering, are there any wireless IEMs yet that are as good for critical listening as wired? I've owned my iBasso IT01 for a couple of years and would never sell them, I think they sound amazing. Would I find wireless with the same level of SQ and if so, can I presume they'd be a lot more expensive?



In my opinion, true wireless is more about convenience than SQ along and wired is probably better suited for critical listening


Shinylemon said:


> I'm glad to see at least one person is enjoying them! Tbh I love the design, and would love to try them out, but I'm not about to put down $250 CAD to see if I enjoy them haha.



I think there are many of us on here who like the Galaxy Buds Live.  I love the open design and they are excellent for calls.  Ever since I got them at launch, I find myself using these way more than my MW07 Go or MTW while doing chores or running around at home.  I just uaed them in the car for a call as well and they worked great.


----------



## regancipher

Just reviewed the Alien Secret QCC010 - £16 well spent!


----------



## LoryWiv

baskingshark said:


> I've seen the TRN BT20S going at about $25 USD during sales actually (on aliexpress). It is quite good in sound quality, only thing the TRN BT20S hisses with highly sensitive IEMs. It actually doesn't colour the sound much IMO, but I do find that there's a minute reduction of subbass and higher treble, but not too noticeable when on the go actually. The convenience it brings to the table much outweighs these areas, but YMMV.
> 
> There's a newer TRN BT20S Pro that has a charging box and detachable modules (for 2 pin/MMCX) so u can use it with different IEMs. That just recently came out, so best u ask the rest who got it as I haven't tried that. I read early impressions it has 10 hour battery life per charge (plus 3 more charges from the charging case), and doesn't hiss as bad as the TRN BT20, so this is definitely one set I have on my wishlist. I think with spare modules, the TRN BT20S Pro is about $70 - 80 USD, it just came out so I guess if u wait a few months, prices should drop later.


 I use FiiO BTR5 with my wired IEM's and it works a charm, very small and light.


----------



## vladzakhar

Caipirina said:


> I am enjoying my Buds Live aka GBeans tremendously!
> 
> I think a lot of reviews are not getting the open / no seal / not fully ANC concept ... it's different, in terms of sound and ease (and fit) they are marvelous


+1


----------



## BigZ12

https://www.reddit.com/r/AirpodsPro..._quality_and_anc_seems_very_much_improved_on/
I agree! Installed iOS14 GM Seed, and got the 3A283 firmware. Have been testing a little while, and immediately heard changes to both ANC and sound. In a positive way. 

https://www.whathifi.com/news/airpods-pros-get-spatial-audio-firmware-update
And Spatial Audio with Disney+ and Apple TV+ is AMAZING! Just wow!


----------



## voicemaster

baskingshark said:


> I've seen the TRN BT20S going at about $25 USD during sales actually (on aliexpress). It is quite good in sound quality, only thing the TRN BT20S hisses with highly sensitive IEMs. It actually doesn't colour the sound much IMO, but I do find that there's a minute reduction of subbass and higher treble, but not too noticeable when on the go actually. The convenience it brings to the table much outweighs these areas, but YMMV.
> 
> There's a newer TRN BT20S Pro that has a charging box and detachable modules (for 2 pin/MMCX) so u can use it with different IEMs. That just recently came out, so best u ask the rest who got it as I haven't tried that. I read early impressions it has 10 hour battery life per charge (plus 3 more charges from the charging case), and doesn't hiss as bad as the TRN BT20, so this is definitely one set I have on my wishlist. I think with spare modules, the TRN BT20S Pro is about $70 - 80 USD, it just came out so I guess if u wait a few months, prices should drop later.


The 20S pro is much much louder than the 20S (50% on pc and my phone is plenty loud whereas with 20S I usually do 70-80% volume) and it is very hard to notice the hiss even when I turned the volume to Max, it is there but you need to be in a very quiet room and not listening to anything to even be able to hear the hiss.


----------



## assassin10000 (Sep 15, 2020)

I had comfort issues with the buds live/beans so I returned them. I wish they didn't have a post and used a silicone slip cover on the back for fit. Or had an indentation for the wings to clip into, instead of around. After 30-40 minutes I was getting pain/hotspots from the wings, which sucked as I like using TWS for long sessions (until the battery gets low).

They were otherwise darn good for what they are. It's hard to get any bass with zero seal, unlike earbuds that have a partial seal when using foam covers. Ymmv.




voicemaster said:


> The 20S pro is much much louder than the 20S (50% on pc and my phone is plenty loud whereas with 20S I usually do 70-80% volume) and it is very hard to notice the hiss even when I turned the volume to Max, it is there but you need to be in a very quiet room and not listening to anything to even be able to hear the hiss.



I found the BT20S plenty loud. But got lots of hiss with sensitive (ba) IEM's.

Tried them with my Westones and had to use them at minimum volume AND turn down the gain using sound balance on wavelet.


I typically used the BT20S at 4-25% and my old BT20 20-40% volume, at home. If out it could be 10-20% higher.


Glad this new one no longer has hiss.


----------



## chinmie

voicemaster said:


> The 20S pro is much much louder than the 20S (50% on pc and my phone is plenty loud whereas with 20S I usually do 70-80% volume) and it is very hard to notice the hiss even when I turned the volume to Max, it is there but you need to be in a very quiet room and not listening to anything to even be able to hear the hiss.





assassin10000 said:


> I found the BT20S plenty loud. But got lots of hiss with sensitive (ba) IEM's.
> 
> Tried them with my Westones and had to use them at minimum volume AND turn down the gain using sound balance on wavelet.
> 
> ...



hmmm.. my volume experience is the opposite, as the BT20S Pro' volume is somewhere between the BT20S and the old BT20. i never use them on Windows though, only on android devices. 

with the same IEM, i if i would use the BT20S about 20-30%, i would need to set the Pro at about 40-50%.
the older BT20S is too loud that i often only use them 1 click of the phone's volume (about 5-10%)

the new Pro is much more reasonable and usable on the volume setting. 

the Pro still have a faint hiss, but really so small that it doesn't detract from listening experience for me. the noise floor is even lower than the BT20. i can use my multi BA'ed DM6 on the pro nicely, while using it on the BT20S the noise is too high for my taste. 

one of the other important improvement is definitely the earguides /wires. every IEM that i put on them would fit on my ears with much ease.. love it


----------



## voicemaster

chinmie said:


> hmmm.. my volume experience is the opposite, as the BT20S Pro' volume is somewhere between the BT20S and the old BT20. i never use them on Windows though, only on android devices.
> 
> with the same IEM, i if i would use the BT20S about 20-30%, i would need to set the Pro at about 40-50%.
> the older BT20S is too loud that i often only use them 1 click of the phone's volume (about 5-10%)
> ...


What I love about the pro is the ear guide. It is no longer pinching my ear. When I use iem like kz ZS7 where the body has sharp edges, the ear guide will pinch the iem to the body and my ear lobe will sore after awhile.


----------



## Caipirina

voicemaster said:


> I too turn the touch feature off 99% of the time.


This made me realize how rarely I use the buttons on TWS ... most of the time I get the phone out anyways ...


----------



## voicemaster

Caipirina said:


> This made me realize how rarely I use the buttons on TWS ... most of the time I get the phone out anyways ...


Same, usually I was browsing and listening to music or podcast at the same time.


----------



## Shinylemon (Sep 16, 2020)

Man, I bought lypertek tevi recently from a store with no returns for $120CAD, and then right after found out best buy had a sale on MTW for $170. Feelsbadman.


----------



## georgelai57

Caipirina said:


> This made me realize how rarely I use the buttons on TWS ... most of the time I get the phone out anyways ...


i prefer physical buttons and if I had a choice, no buttons or touch controls at all. I will adjust either using my iPhone or my Apple Watch. If it’s a DAP, the DAP is next to me anyway. The fact I’m a full album listener helps in that respect.

For similar reasons, I also dislike those where the music pauses when I take one earbud out. I’ve had some cheaper TWS where the music pauses when I yawn or take a sip of a drink. I don’t see why it matters if the music continues for a few seconds after removal.

Just old school I guess.


----------



## Caipirina

georgelai57 said:


> i prefer physical buttons and if I had a choice, no buttons or touch controls at all. I will adjust either using my iPhone or my Apple Watch. If it’s a DAP, the DAP is next to me anyway. The fact I’m a full album listener helps in that respect.
> 
> For similar reasons, I also dislike those where the music pauses when I take one earbud out. I’ve had some cheaper TWS where the music pauses when I yawn or take a sip of a drink. I don’t see why it matters if the music continues for a few seconds after removal.
> 
> Just old school I guess.



Same same ... i feel that old school that I really with a TWS set with NO phone capability! Microphones only for ANC. Not buttons, no cranks, no gears, no auto pause ... but maybe with color sleeves to be able to coordinate with clothes


----------



## chinmie

georgelai57 said:


> i prefer physical buttons and if I had a choice, no buttons or touch controls at all. I will adjust either using my iPhone or my Apple Watch. If it’s a DAP, the DAP is next to me anyway. The fact I’m a full album listener helps in that respect.
> 
> For similar reasons, I also dislike those where the music pauses when I take one earbud out. I’ve had some cheaper TWS where the music pauses when I yawn or take a sip of a drink. I don’t see why it matters if the music continues for a few seconds after removal.
> 
> Just old school I guess.



yes, i don't like that auto-pause feature too, which seems to be pushed as "added feature" by even the cheaper TWSs. i like the sensors just to disable the touch when removed from the ears, but i like to keep the music playing.


----------



## georgelai57

@Caipirina @chinmie 
Whenever I read a review on whether a TWS is good for phone calls, I don’t pay attention. I mean in 2020, who uses a phone to talk, verbalize, nowadays? Ha Ha 
If you really want to talk to me when I’m listening to music, I’ll call you when I’m finished with my music enjoyment thank you very much.


----------



## Bhelpoori

Caipirina said:


> Same same ... i feel that old school that I really with a TWS set with NO phone capability! Microphones only for ANC. Not buttons, no cranks, no gears, no auto pause ... but maybe with color sleeves to be able to coordinate with clothes


I believe that connecting using Bluetooth with a headset profile (aka, loosely, SBC)  requires a microphone hence why it is always included.


----------



## voicemaster

Another thing to love about the TRN bt20s pro is auto on/off. Unlike the previous versions, you have to press and hold both Left and Right button to turn them on/off. Now, when you take them in/out the case, they will turn on/off automatically just like a regular TWS.


----------



## Thesonofkrypton

Anyone seen any news on the WF-1000XM4 yet? Have the XM3 and the Momentum 2 anniversary edition is calling me but would rather opt to stay with Sony if they have a new set that is hopefully sleeker, happy with everything else.


----------



## dwells (Sep 16, 2020)

georgelai57 said:


> @Caipirina @chinmie
> Whenever I read a review on whether a TWS is good for phone calls, I don’t pay attention. I mean in 2020, who uses a phone to talk, verbalize, nowadays? Ha Ha
> If you really want to talk to me when I’m listening to music, I’ll call you when I’m finished with my music enjoyment thank you very much.


This is actually a huge feature for me. I travel a decent amount, and I have a group of friends who are regularly in online voice chats as a group. When I was in Indonesia a few months back, the time zones synced up such that they were online pretty much every night when I had a half hour walk to dinner. So I’d join them and chat (using wireless earbuds) for most of my walks.

The other reason it matters is for using Siri. If it doesn’t have good mic quality and wind handling, youre out of luck with Siri. The Aukey EP-N5s I had a month ago were really bad at this, and I like using Siri when I’m out walking for stuff like changing music. It’s especially useful if you’re in an area where you might not To have your phone out.

It’s part of the reason I’m currently struggling to hurry up and find a new set of TWS before I leave again in a week or two. Comfortable, small case, neutral sound, USB-C, and good mic quality/noise handling seems to be an impossible combo to come by in the ~$60 range.


----------



## Antenne

Had done a little search for the  BT20s pro and found them at Fasttech currently for  $54.10 + free shipping to Germany! Tempting, but I own already this much TWS and wired IEM's - I can't never use them all as it shoud be.


----------



## TK33

dwells said:


> This is actually a huge feature for me. I travel a decent amount, and I have a group of friends who are regularly in online voice chats as a group. When I was in Indonesia a few months back, the time zones synced up such that they were online pretty much every night when I had a half hour walk to dinner. So I’d join them and chat (using wireless earbuds) for most of my walks.
> 
> The other reason it matters is for using Siri. If it doesn’t have good mic quality and wind handling, youre out of luck with Siri. The Aukey EP-N5s I had a month ago were really bad at this, and I like using Siri when I’m out walking for stuff like changing music. It’s especially useful if you’re in an area where you might not To have your phone out.
> 
> It’s part of the reason I’m currently struggling to hurry up and find a new set of TWS before I leave again in a week or two. Comfortable, small case, neutral sound, USB-C, and good mic quality/noise handling seems to be an impossible combo to come by in the ~$60 range.



Call quality is pretty important for me as well and probably many consumers who may not really care about SQ (and are likely not here on headfi).  Since I have been stuck at home for the last 6 months, I have been using TWS more for calls than for music. 

When I used to travel (pre-COVID), I would take 1 TWS for calls and my ES100 (now replaced with a 5K)+IEMs for listening to music.  Mics on ES100 and 5K are not great so if I were to travel today it would probably be my Galaxy Buds Live + 5K/SE846 that come with me.  I like to travel light and this setup is perfect for me (could use IEMs to watch the inflight movies as well).

If you dont want to be interrupted by calls, there is always Do Not Disturb mode since I am pretty sure calls will come through on your phone and disrupt your music even if you dont have l a mic on your headset. On Android, you can also set your bluetooth settings to only transmit audio to your paired bluetooth devices and not calls (I have done this for some of my TWS which have terrible mic quality and I would never use for calls).


----------



## VICosPhi

New firmware is out for MTW2. I think new firmware improves sound, especially the mids.


----------



## helmutcheese (Sep 16, 2020)

Anyone heard of these:

*uandksound*

uandksound | Wireless Intraural In-Ear Headphones |: Amazon.co.uk: Electronics

Amazon.co.uk: uandksound AWAKEN YOUR SENSES: Home page


----------



## Caipirina

Shinylemon said:


> Man, I bought lypertek tevi recently from a store with no returns for $120CAD, and then right after found out best buy had a sale on MTW for $170. Feelsbadman.


Got your numbers mixed up? Or sarcasm I don't get?


----------



## Laethageal

georgelai57 said:


> @Caipirina @chinmie
> Whenever I read a review on whether a TWS is good for phone calls, I don’t pay attention. I mean in 2020, who uses a phone to talk, verbalize, nowadays? Ha Ha
> If you really want to talk to me when I’m listening to music, I’ll call you when I’m finished with my music enjoyment thank you very much.



Who doesn't use a phone to talk?

In my job, there's no way a wired will be allowed. Nothing beats a phone call from your boss/co-worker asking you a question about next job or how to accomplish a task on your TWS so you don't need to stop working, remove working gloves to get your phone out and answer. It also have the advantage of blocking a good part of the ambiant noise so you can better hear the conversation when in a noisy environment. When working at 50' plus for multiple hours, having some music with decent SQ is great as well. I had limited myself to some cheap 1 ear TWS previously since I need to hear what's going on around, but with the ambiant mode I might be able to run in stereo now 

Or while driving back the truck to the shop, where you're not allowed some headphone, that your 2017 truck lack bluetooth or speaker good enough to even be able to recognize a track, I can say that a TWS with decent phone call quality and good SQ is a real plus.

Maybe you're one to use facebook to communicate and phone for music, but other people have different needs.


----------



## BigZ12 (Sep 17, 2020)

VICosPhi said:


> New firmware is out for MTW2. I think new firmware improves sound, especially the mids.


I updated them, but I think they went borderline sibilant (again). 
A little bright highs and sibilance was my first and only? negative when I bought my MTW2.
But especially the last firmware made them a little smoother I think.
Now with 4.13.0 I think they are a tad bright again, and as I said a little sibilant as well.

Did the bass get a little "rumbly" too? (or have I listened too much to my Philips Fidelio X3 lately  )


----------



## Caipirina

BigZ12 said:


> https://www.reddit.com/r/AirpodsPro..._quality_and_anc_seems_very_much_improved_on/
> I agree! Installed iOS14 GM Seed, and got the 3A283 firmware. Have been testing a little while, and immediately heard changes to both ANC and sound. In a positive way.
> 
> https://www.whathifi.com/news/airpods-pros-get-spatial-audio-firmware-update
> And Spatial Audio with Disney+ and Apple TV+ is AMAZING! Just wow!



Hopped on that bandwagon and downloaded iOS14 mainly to get that APP new FW ... and color me annoyed, but that up'grade' broke my connection between iTunes and my Phone (yes, I am a bit behind with OS upgrades on my old old Macbook Pro, but I don't have enough HD space to go to the Catalina upgrade  ) ... which means I can no longer put new music on my phone, which SUCKS ... 

Anyone heard anything about it? Tried to google, possibly too fresh an issue (and only a minority of still-iTunes users I guess) .. looks like I wait & hope for 14.0.1 or something ... 

Oh, and so far the APP FW has not changed ... bummer


----------



## BigZ12

Caipirina said:


> Hopped on that bandwagon and downloaded iOS14 mainly to get that APP new FW ... and color me annoyed, but that up'grade' broke my connection between iTunes and my Phone (yes, I am a bit behind with OS upgrades on my old old Macbook Pro, but I don't have enough HD space to go to the Catalina upgrade  ) ... which means I can no longer put new music on my phone, which SUCKS ...
> 
> Anyone heard anything about it? Tried to google, possibly too fresh an issue (and only a minority of still-iTunes users I guess) .. looks like I wait & hope for 14.0.1 or something ...
> 
> Oh, and so far the APP FW has not changed ... bummer


Ouch, that's too bad.
I don't use iTunes for transferring music, so I can't help you 
Hope you'll get it fixed, and your APPs will get the firmware upgrade soon.
I still think sound is a bit better, especially the bass (firmer?) and Spatial Audio was cool (but I won't watch movies/series on my iPhone X anyway...)
Better ANC is difficult to confirm when you don't have another set to compare with, but again I feel it's a little bit better too.


----------



## georgelai57

Caipirina said:


> Hopped on that bandwagon and downloaded iOS14 mainly to get that APP new FW ... and color me annoyed, but that up'grade' broke my connection between iTunes and my Phone (yes, I am a bit behind with OS upgrades on my old old Macbook Pro, but I don't have enough HD space to go to the Catalina upgrade  ) ... which means I can no longer put new music on my phone, which SUCKS ...
> 
> Anyone heard anything about it? Tried to google, possibly too fresh an issue (and only a minority of still-iTunes users I guess) .. looks like I wait & hope for 14.0.1 or something ...
> 
> Oh, and so far the APP FW has not changed ... bummer


iTunes - what’s that?
I’ve not switched on my iMac for a couple of years. Gave up on using iTunes for syncing music.

Music is either AAC on Apple Music and Spotify on an iPhone/iPad/Apple TV or and when I’m not lazy, the tons of FLAC and DSD off a couple of Dinosaur, I mean, Digital Audio Players (DAPs).

In the early days I’d use a software called Waltr2 to convert FLAC into ALAC via iTunes. https://softorino.com/ This was a great program as it converted on the fly without dumping an actual ALAC copy into iTunes as well.


----------



## jant71




----------



## Caipirina

georgelai57 said:


> iTunes - what’s that?
> I’ve not switched on my iMac for a couple of years. Gave up on using iTunes for syncing music.
> 
> Music is either AAC on Apple Music and Spotify on an iPhone/iPad/Apple TV or and when I’m not lazy, the tons of FLAC and DSD off a couple of Dinosaur, I mean, Digital Audio Players (DAPs).
> ...


I am actually using iTunes ONLY to get files onto my phone ... video for VLC and flac for an app called VOX ...  have not used iTunes for music in ages ... 

Can;t really do streaming since we have very limited internet on this island and music can eat up quite some when in higher Q ... 

Got the new FW on APP, can;t say I hear a difference yet, need to some time ... no idea how to test spatial audio, seems you have to use video files from whatever apple proprietary source (itunes? apple TV?) i might be locked out there because of region again .. never got anything 'official' from iTunes store regarding video ... maybe they have free trailers? Shall test


----------



## BigZ12

I got my Fiio FH3 today, along with a BTR5.
They are so damned good compared to all BT/TWS I've ever tested, so I think may need a TWS adapter I can use with the FH3. (MMCX connector).
Which do I buy?  (Need AAC cause I use an iPhone)


----------



## Bhelpoori

Caipirina said:


> I am actually using iTunes ONLY to get files onto my phone ... video for VLC and flac for an app called VOX ...  have not used iTunes for music in ages ...
> 
> Can;t really do streaming since we have very limited internet on this island and music can eat up quite some when in higher Q ...
> 
> Got the new FW on APP, can;t say I hear a difference yet, need to some time ... no idea how to test spatial audio, seems you have to use video files from whatever apple proprietary source (itunes? apple TV?) i might be locked out there because of region again .. never got anything 'official' from iTunes store regarding video ... maybe they have free trailers? Shall test


For Spatial, it isn't just about what plays it but also what surround encoder was used to make the content. See if you can find a trailer with Dolby preferably Atmos in the Apple TV or iTunes Store app. It is also better on an iPad since you can move your head and the audio space will follow. 

You should also check out the Accessibility->AirPods->Audio Accessibility Settings->Headphone Accomodations... to see whether the simple customisation works for you. Note these customisations follow your around on playback on iPad and iPhone but not Mac.


----------



## Caipirina (Sep 17, 2020)

Bhelpoori said:


> For Spatial, it isn't just about what plays it but also what surround encoder was used to make the content. See if you can find a trailer with Dolby preferably Atmos in the Apple TV or iTunes Store app. It is also better on an iPad since you can move your head and the audio space will follow.



Yeah, tried with trailers and I do hear a difference ... can't really describe it yet, still have to find a real kick ass trailer ...



Bhelpoori said:


> You should also check out the Accessibility->AirPods->Audio Accessibility Settings->Headphone Accomodations... to see whether the simple customisation works for you. Note these customisations follow your around on playback on iPad and iPhone but not Mac.


OOOhhh, that's like a mini-eq hidden deep deep inside the settings! Great find! Thanks for sharing!

I do think the new FW has finally given (back?) the APP some dynamic uuummmppphh it was lacking ...


----------



## chinmie

BigZ12 said:


> I got my Fiio FH3 today, along with a BTR5.
> They are so damned good compared to all BT/TWS I've ever tested, so I think may need a TWS adapter I can use with the FH3. (MMCX connector).
> Which do I buy?  (Need AAC cause I use an iPhone)



i recommend the TRN BT20S PRO. Just choose the MMCX version. I bought extra connectors so i can hook up 4 of my IEMs to it


----------



## BigZ12

chinmie said:


> i recommend the TRN BT20S PRO. Just choose the MMCX version. I bought extra connectors so i can hook up 4 of my IEMs to it


Thanks. 
Yes, I have the KZ ZS10 PRO incoming too, and those use 2-pin, so guess I'll buying extra connectors too


----------



## smith

A little heads up everyone... I have my Hiby WH3 and Fiil CC TWS up for sale in the sale/trade forum


----------



## Bhelpoori

Caipirina said:


> Yeah, tried with trailers and I do hear a difference ... can't really describe it yet, still have to find a real kick ass trailer ...
> 
> 
> OOOhhh, that's like a mini-eq hidden deep deep inside the settings! Great find! Thanks for sharing!
> ...


Instructions are at: 
https://support.apple.com/en-gb/HT211218?cid=mc-ols-audio-article_ht211218-ios_ui-06042020

I still prefer SoundID from Sonarworks but definitely has improved the sound to better suit my weird tastes. 

Also what do you think of automatic switching?


----------



## Bhelpoori

Caipirina said:


> Yeah, tried with trailers and I do hear a difference ... can't really describe it yet, still have to find a real kick ass trailer ...
> 
> 
> OOOhhh, that's like a mini-eq hidden deep deep inside the settings! Great find! Thanks for sharing!
> ...


I think you can get AppleTV+ in Sri Lanka. If so try the trailers for Greyhound, Elephant Queen and Amazing Stories are neat.


----------



## hifi80sman

Bhelpoori said:


> I think you can get AppleTV+ in Sri Lanka. If so try the trailers for Greyhound, Elephant Queen and Amazing Stories are neat.


I was able to get a 1 year free trial.  When you log in with your Apple ID, it seems to see what new Apple devices you've connected to your account (purchased) recently and will give you a 1 year trial in lieu of the 7 day trial.

https://offers.appletvapp.apple/


----------



## marcus2704

Today I received Sennheiser Momentum True Wireless 2 which was an impulse buy to be honest.  I have been using Anker Soundcore Liberty Pro 2 for some time now which I think are fantastic, but hoped the Sennheiser would offer me something over and above those.  

I have to say I was very disappointed by them, not 'bad' as such, but very underwhelming and I far prefer the sound signature of the Ankers in particular the bass response.  I tried a variety of tips with the Sennheisers and a selection of music but frankly the Ankers consistantly sounded better less than half the price.  Just more exciting and engaging, with deeper low-end. 

So far, to my ears the Liberty Pro 2's have won out against the MW07 Plus, Sennheiser TW2 and Sony WF-1000XM3 earphones.   I imagine there is possibly something out there to beat the Ankers but half the brands of bluetooth earphones I have never heard of or know next to nothing about, hence why I seem to keep going for more 'known' brands that seem to disappoint.


----------



## BigZ12

marcus2704 said:


> Today I received Sennheiser Momentum True Wireless 2 which was an impulse buy to be honest.  I have been using Anker Soundcore Liberty Pro 2 for some time now which I think are fantastic, but hoped the Sennheiser would offer me something over and above those.
> 
> I have to say I was very disappointed by them, not 'bad' as such, but very underwhelming and I far prefer the sound signature of the Ankers in particular the bass response.  I tried a variety of tips with the Sennheisers and a selection of music but frankly the Ankers consistantly sounded better less than half the price.  Just more exciting and engaging, with deeper low-end.
> 
> So far, to my ears the Liberty Pro 2's have won out against the MW07 Plus, Sennheiser TW2 and Sony WF-1000XM3 earphones.   I imagine there is possibly something out there to beat the Ankers but half the brands of bluetooth earphones I have never heard of or know next to nothing about, hence why I seem to keep going for more 'known' brands that seem to disappoint.


You cannot judge the MTW2s after just trying the stock tips, IMHO. They are cr...


----------



## mikp

BigZ12 said:


> You cannot judge the MTW2s after just trying the stock tips, IMHO. They are cr...



yes, got a pack of spinfit L\XL 360. To me the mtw2 sounds very good, even better with credit card 20% off.


----------



## Kalli (Sep 17, 2020)

I will probably go for the ThieAudio Legacy 3 and wondering which wireless adapters are nice for those.
Bluetooth or TWS. I'm not exactly sure yet what's the best option for me.

PS: If you think the L3 are crap for classical music, you're welcome to tell me what may be a better option. I'm new to the IEM business.


----------



## jant71

Kalli said:


> I will probably go for the ThieAudio Legend 3 and wondering which wireless adapters are nice for those.
> Bluetooth or TWS. I'm not exactly sure yet what's the best option for me.
> 
> PS: If you think the L3 are crap for classical music, you're welcome to tell me what may be a better option. I'm new to the IEM business.



Why the L3 when the L5 just came out.


----------



## Kalli

jant71 said:


> Why the L3 when the L5 just came out.


ThieAudio Legend 5? Never heard of them.


----------



## erockg

hifi80sman said:


> I was able to get a 1 year free trial.  When you log in with your Apple ID, it seems to see what new Apple devices you've connected to your account (purchased) recently and will give you a 1 year trial in lieu of the 7 day trial.
> 
> https://offers.appletvapp.apple/


Do you know if you can get multiple free years?  ie, if I bought another new phone would I get another free year?  I doubt it, but curious.


----------



## jant71

Kalli said:


> ThieAudio Legend 5? Never heard of them.



Well they are Legacy 3 and 5. Legend may not get the desired result.


----------



## Kalli

jant71 said:


> Well they are Legacy 3 and 5. Legend may not get the desired result.


Ok, now I'm confused. Are there any "Legend 3/5" IEMs at all? I corrected my initial post to "Legacy 3", which I tend to go for.
And the Legacy 5 seem to be quite a bit more expensive (130-150 vs 210-250).


----------



## faithguy19 (Sep 25, 2020)

I have picked up the Tronsmart Apollo and I am wondering what tips you guys are using?  The stock tips feel kind of cheap.  Anyone using comply or other foams?


----------



## jasonb

I've been enjoying the Galaxy Buds Live. As long you don't shove them deep in your ears and try to block your ear canals they sound neutral(ish).


----------



## howdy (Sep 17, 2020)

marcus2704 said:


> Today I received Sennheiser Momentum True Wireless 2 which was an impulse buy to be honest.  I have been using Anker Soundcore Liberty Pro 2 for some time now which I think are fantastic, but hoped the Sennheiser would offer me something over and above those.
> 
> I have to say I was very disappointed by them, not 'bad' as such, but very underwhelming and I far prefer the sound signature of the Ankers in particular the bass response.  I tried a variety of tips with the Sennheisers and a selection of music but frankly the Ankers consistantly sounded better less than half the price.  Just more exciting and engaging, with deeper low-end.
> 
> So far, to my ears the Liberty Pro 2's have won out against the MW07 Plus, Sennheiser TW2 and Sony WF-1000XM3 earphones.   I imagine there is possibly something out there to beat the Ankers but half the brands of bluetooth earphones I have never heard of or know next to nothing about, hence why I seem to keep going for more 'known' brands that seem to disappoint.


Not sure the difference between V1 and V2 for the MTW but I vastly prefer my MTW1 over the LP2( I still own both) and that's with stock tips on the MTW but I have Spinfits on the LP2.
Still greatly enjoy the LP2s as well. And all the others.


----------



## regancipher

faithguy19 said:


> I have picked up the Tronsmart Apollo and I am wondering what tips you guys are using.  The stock tips feel kind of cheap.  Anyone using comply or other foams?



I trialled my two usual spinfits, inairs and ikko I-planet. I found none of them worked as well as the stock.

The stock don't feel so good on the outside  but on the inside they are double backed to prevent the oval shaped housing from causing discomfort.

We have an almost innate tendency to stick earbuds as far into our ear canals as possible. I say that from the comfort of my bed with the Alien Secret QCC010 which go so deep they pull a few brain cells out when I remove them! The Apollo on the other hand are not meant to seal on the inside of entrance to your ear canal, they are better served filling the space in your concha. They can then expand and this allows the sound stage to open up a little bit. 

I'm still convinced the bass issues are related to the lack of clarity over how to wear them. I tried to illustrate it in my review, because they're great headphones if used in the right way, and like many vendors they release stuff without taking into consideration that every user has their own predetermined modus operandi. If you tell people how to make the most out of them it won't impact on sales, quite the contrary it will curry favour with those who bother to read the quick guide. Samsung are having the same problem right now so it's not just Tronsmart - at least Tronsmart are present and responsive on here.

Go for the medium or large stock. I use the Tronsmart large tips on my Edifier TWS NB2 and they make the world of difference on those too. I even use the small on my Onyx Free!


----------



## Mouseman

Bhelpoori said:


> For Spatial, it isn't just about what plays it but also what surround encoder was used to make the content. See if you can find a trailer with Dolby preferably Atmos in the Apple TV or iTunes Store app. It is also better on an iPad since you can move your head and the audio space will follow.
> 
> You should also check out the Accessibility->AirPods->Audio Accessibility Settings->Headphone Accomodations... to see whether the simple customisation works for you. Note these customisations follow your around on playback on iPad and iPhone but not Mac.


You have earned my eternal gratitude tonight. The audio tailoring is kind of like Sound ID, and they also let you tune the transparency. I have no idea why Apple can't collect all the APP settings in one place and make it easy


----------



## baskingshark

faithguy19 said:


> I have picked up the Tronsmart Apollo and I am wondering what tips you guys are using.  The stock tips feel kind of cheap.  Anyone using comply or other foams?



The Tronsmart Apollo Bold reaches basshead levels with a bit of a treble roll off when ambient/ANC mode is turned on, so I wouldn't advise foam tips with them. As generally I find foam lowers the treble more than silicone tips, but YMMV. I think the stock tips are pretty adequate, but if u want to lower the bass a bit, u can try some wider bore silicone tips.


----------



## Mouseman

Bhelpoori said:


> Instructions are at:
> https://support.apple.com/en-gb/HT211218?cid=mc-ols-audio-article_ht211218-ios_ui-06042020
> 
> I still prefer SoundID from Sonarworks but definitely has improved the sound to better suit my weird tastes.
> ...


Auto switching is amazing. By far my favorite improvement.


----------



## howdy

Recently bought the Xelastic earbud tips to try with the Sony XM3s and they do exceptionally well keeping my XM3s in my ears! I bet I could throw one at a wall (eartip) and it would stick. They are pretty cool ear tips.


----------



## Caipirina (Sep 17, 2020)

Bhelpoori said:


> Instructions are at:
> https://support.apple.com/en-gb/HT211218?cid=mc-ols-audio-article_ht211218-ios_ui-06042020
> 
> I still prefer SoundID from Sonarworks but definitely has improved the sound to better suit my weird tastes.
> ...


Not sure I can check automatic switching as my Mac is running some old OS and I never saw the need for an iPad 

but coming back to our main topic TWS. How cool is it that something fancy like ‘spatial sound’ fits into such a small packet?

i used to have 5.1 headphones that needed a huge decoder brick and connected to my Mac via optical cable (I think by now Apple dropped this)


----------



## chinmie

faithguy19 said:


> I have picked up the Tronsmart Apollo and I am wondering what tips you guys are using.  The stock tips feel kind of cheap.  Anyone using comply or other foams?



i currently using Symbio W Peel. several tips I've tried that also work are spiral dots, spinfit cp145, and Sony hybrids

the stock tips are surprisingly similar to the spiral dot ++ material-wise, i kinda like it


----------



## faithguy19

howdy said:


> Not sure the difference between V1 and V2 for the MTW but I vastly prefer my MTW1 over the LP2( I still own both) and that's with stock tips on the MTW but I have Spinfits on the LP2.
> Still greatly enjoy the LP2s as well. And all the others.


Thanks!


----------



## Sam L

jasonb said:


> I've been enjoying the Galaxy Buds Live. As long you don't shove them deep in your ears and try to block your ear canals they sound neutral(ish).


Agreed.

In the end I returned mine to free up funds for the Fiio em5. Additionally, there is too much going on in the $60 to $160 wired iem market to ignore and I feel the tws space is not making any big leaps forward. So, for now, I'm not feeling any itch for new tws earphones.


----------



## Sam L

Kalli said:


> I will probably go for the ThieAudio Legacy 3 and wondering which wireless adapters are nice for those.
> Bluetooth or TWS. I'm not exactly sure yet what's the best option for me.
> 
> PS: If you think the L3 are crap for classical music, you're welcome to tell me what may be a better option. I'm new to the IEM business.


Have people shared the opinion that the L3 wasn't good for classical music? I would take issue with that, if so. I pretty much only listen to classical music and the L3 is one of my favorites.


----------



## VICosPhi

BigZ12 said:


> I updated them, but I think they went borderline sibilant (again).
> A little bright highs and sibilance was my first and only? negative when I bought my MTW2.
> But especially the last firmware made them a little smoother I think.
> Now with 4.13.0 I think they are a tad bright again, and as I said a little sibilant as well.
> ...



Hmm, from my experience it seems there is a change in treble signature but I feel the mids to have improved a bit. I think if you are on old firmware and enable MTW2 preset of AutoEQ in Wavelet, that is how it sounds. Bass seems a little less to me, perhaps due to boosted mids and change in treble signature


----------



## AudioNoob

@Tronsmart Official is there an update on the Apollo Bold app? I also wanted to note, before you post it for review on google/apple, please make the equalizer settings a little more legible than the spunky beats app edition where they have subjective names and no notes/graphics showing what they do.


----------



## Tronsmart Official

AudioNoob said:


> @Tronsmart Official is there an update on the Apollo Bold app? I also wanted to note, before you post it for review on google/apple, please make the equalizer settings a little more legible than the spunky beats app edition where they have subjective names and no notes/graphics showing what they do.


Hi,
Apollo Bold APP will come in the end of this month. Yes, we have collected your feedback and keep improving before we release!


----------



## AudioNoob

Tronsmart Official said:


> Hi,
> Apollo Bold APP will come in the end of this month. Yes, we have collected your feedback and keep improving before we release!


Thank you. Let me know if you want me to test an apk file before release and offer early feedback I can sideload it on my phone before play store approval. I'll post a longer review of earphone and app having used it for a month now.


----------



## marcus2704

BigZ12 said:


> You cannot judge the MTW2s after just trying the stock tips, IMHO. They are cr...



Tried Spinfits, Spiral Dots and Final Type E.   If nothing else the MTW2s made me realise just how good the Soundcore Liberty 2 Pro's are, let alone for less than half the cost.


----------



## Caipirina

hifi80sman said:


> I was able to get a 1 year free trial.  When you log in with your Apple ID, it seems to see what new Apple devices you've connected to your account (purchased) recently and will give you a 1 year trial in lieu of the 7 day trial.
> 
> https://offers.appletvapp.apple/


i think I am still good for a 1 year trial, from buying a new iPhone last year ... but I don't want to use the bandwidth to watch HD shows / movies on my phone ..  there are places where I can find tiny, but great quality x265 versions of shows in small file sizes


----------



## Kalli

Sam L said:


> Have people shared the opinion that the L3 wasn't good for classical music? I would take issue with that, if so. I pretty much only listen to classical music and the L3 is one of my favorites.


Oh no, not at all. I'm just totally new to IEMs.
Some guy also suggested the L5, which are pretty new.


----------



## hifi80sman

erockg said:


> Do you know if you can get multiple free years?  ie, if I bought another new phone would I get another free year?  I doubt it, but curious.


Probably, if you purchased another device and have another Apple ID


----------



## mikp (Sep 18, 2020)

just got notification that my apollo bolds i won from the review contest will be delieverd on monday. Looking forward to test them and the 5 series qualcomm.


----------



## Sam L (Sep 18, 2020)

Kalli said:


> Oh no, not at all. I'm just totally new to IEMs.
> Some guy also suggested the L5, which are pretty new.


You can also read through some of @tgx78 's posts. He's a critical classical music listener who has a really sharp set of ears and is always in pursuit of faithful instrument fidelity.


----------



## georgelai57

This is probably not new to Android users or people more tech savvy than me but iOS14 now allows me to rename every Bluetooth device connected to my iPhone. 
No more weird names, mixture of upper and lower case characters etc. OCD heaven.


----------



## Caipirina

georgelai57 said:


> This is probably not new to Android users or people more tech savvy than me but iOS14 now allows me to rename every Bluetooth device connected to my iPhone.
> No more weird names, mixture of upper and lower case characters etc. OCD heaven.


ooooooohhhhh! Nice !!!!


----------



## Shinylemon

Caipirina said:


> Got your numbers mixed up? Or sarcasm I don't get?



No, not mixed up. I just figured paying $50 extra would be worth it.


----------



## webvan

So who's pre-ordered the Bose ? Their 90 day trial period was too tempting for me


----------



## Caipirina

Shinylemon said:


> No, not mixed up. I just figured paying $50 extra would be worth it.


Finally figured out MY reading mistake .. somehow I missed that you were talking about 2 different TWS ... my bad


----------



## erockg

webvan said:


> So who's pre-ordered the Bose ? Their 90 day trial period was too tempting for me


Preordered here.  Bday gift from my wife.  I don't need them, but I want them.


----------



## hifi80sman

erockg said:


> Preordered here.  Bday gift from my wife.  I don't need them, but I want them.


Even though it sounds like the track control may be lacking, who am I kidding, I know my dumbass is going to get them both.


----------



## howdy

hifi80sman said:


> Even though it sounds like the track control may be lacking, who am I kidding, I know my dumbass is going to get them both.


I'll probably end buying them too but I'll wait tell Target or Best Buy get them.


----------



## erockg

hifi80sman said:


> Even though it sounds like the track control may be lacking, who am I kidding, I know my dumbass is going to get them both.


Yeah, and stupid me has the Klipsch T5 II Mclaren's coming on Tuesday.  Ugh.  I need therapy.


----------



## clerkpalmer

webvan said:


> So who's pre-ordered the Bose ? Their 90 day trial period was too tempting for me


Guilty as well.  I've considered cancelling a couple of times.  The price tag all but guarantees they will be a disappointment.  I need them like a hole in the head.  I mean, _they can't possibly be worth the money can they?????_


----------



## hmscott

erockg said:


> Yeah, and stupid me has the Klipsch T5 II Mclaren's coming on Tuesday.  Ugh.  I need therapy.


Nah, those look awesome - very cool stuff.  Just the kind of stuff Klipsch would be developing if he were still around today.  I wonder if he could have squeezed a folded horn cavity into a "Earhorn" IEM 
https://www.klipsch.com/founder


----------



## clerkpalmer

hmscott said:


> Nah, those look awesome - very cool stuff.  Just the kind of stuff Klipsch would be developing if he were still around today.  I wonder if he could have squeezed a folded horn cavity into a "Earhorn" IEM
> https://www.klipsch.com/founder


When I was young and full stereo systems were still a thing, I had some Klipsch horn tweet floor standing speakers.  Preferred genre was hard rock.  My god those things were incredible and fully responsible for my lifelong tinnitus.


----------



## erockg

hmscott said:


> Nah, those look awesome - very cool stuff.  Just the kind of stuff Klipsch would be developing if he were still around today.  I wonder if he could have squeezed a folded horn cavity into a "Earhorn" IEM
> https://www.klipsch.com/founder


I'll post pics when I get them.  Folks say they've fixed all the issues of Gen 1.  We shall see!


----------



## Caipirina

webvan said:


> So who's pre-ordered the Bose ? Their 90 day trial period was too tempting for me


that 90 day trial would make that an auto order for me .. but I am still curious to see some reviews first (who am I kidding, if I was still in Germany, those would have been pre-ordered as soon as they showed up on Amazon)

Maybe I need to see them in person, but somehow I like the design of the SSF better ...


----------



## Shinylemon

Arghh too many sets of IEM's too buy, not enough money!! Time to sell my kidneys. 

Also I realize this is not really the thread for it, but is anyone else really annoyed that Spotify hasn't added a hifi option yet? Tidal and Amazon are okay, but missing too many tracks...


----------



## voicemaster

I think the only tws left for me to buy atm is the nuarl n10p, not because I need it, but just out of curiosity.  Right now, I am using the GBeans for portable and trn bt20s pro + KZ ZAX for home use. The only reason I don't use the bt20s pro for portable is because the case is a bit too big for my jeans pocket.


----------



## jasonb

voicemaster said:


> I think the only tws left for me to buy atm is the nuarl n10p, not because I need it, but just out of curiosity.  Right now, I am using the GBeans for portable and trn bt20s pro + KZ ZAX for home use. The only reason I don't use the bt20s pro for portable is because the case is a bit too big for my jeans pocket.



I like the Beans a lot for what they are.


----------



## Shinylemon

voicemaster said:


> I think the only tws left for me to buy atm is the nuarl n10p, not because I need it, but just out of curiosity.  Right now, I am using the GBeans for portable and trn bt20s pro + KZ ZAX for home use. The only reason I don't use the bt20s pro for portable is because the case is a bit too big for my jeans pocket.


I was looking at the n6 pro, tbh I don't know a ton about nural and they have so many IEM's it's hard to figure out which to buy. Is the n10p their flagship?


----------



## actorlife

Ordered the Tranya T10’s. Gonna give them another chance and hope battery life is up to par. I returned the T2 and loved the SQ, but battery(50% volume) was 4hrs instead of 7hrs. Anyone else got the T10 and can confirm 8hrs?


----------



## jant71

actorlife said:


> Ordered the Tranya T10’s. Gonna give them another chance and hope battery life is up to par. I returned the T2 and loved the SQ, but battery(50% volume) was 4hrs instead of 7hrs. Anyone else got the T10 and can confirm 8hrs?



T10 or the M10??


----------



## hifi80sman

Anyone spend time with the new Sennheiser CX 400 TWS?  Price seems high for what they are, but there's not much else new out there and apparently money burns a hole in my pocket.


----------



## voicemaster

Shinylemon said:


> I was looking at the n6 pro, tbh I don't know a ton about nural and they have so many IEM's it's hard to figure out which to buy. Is the n10p their flagship?


The n10p will be the successor of n6p. It is not released yet, I think. It is Nuarl flagship model if I am not mistaken.


----------



## jant71 (Sep 19, 2020)

hifi80sman said:


> Anyone spend time with the new Sennheiser CX 400 TWS?  Price seems high for what they are, but there's not much else new out there and apparently money burns a hole in my pocket.



Yeah, thought about it. Real one trick pony. SQ but chunky, no transparency, no wireless charging,
reports say not premium in the feel of the plastic. Even took away a charge from the case.

Klipsch having reports about the Ear fins having a bad design and sliding off. Case is pretty huge. Those are not a must purchase anymore. Then they could at least keep wireless charging in the T5 II non-sport but they don't. So, not as easy to just say I can live w/o fins.

New JBL has a lot but doesn't seem to have aptX so not a slam dunk there.

Tranya M10 was $71 but still from China so I didn't want to wait and wasn't convinced anyhow.

New Radius is on my list, the NX500BT. good shape, size, and style, and is just about the SQ. Not till October though.


----------



## TWSMan

actorlife said:


> Ordered the Tranya T10’s. Gonna give them another chance and hope battery life is up to par. I returned the T2 and loved the SQ, but battery(50% volume) was 4hrs instead of 7hrs. Anyone else got the T10 and can confirm 8hrs?


The last time I used the Tranya T10, I stopped listening just after 7hrs at 50% volume but still had 30% battery left so reckon it can get more than 8 hrs.  The very first time I used the T10, I only got around 5hrs but after the 2nd or 3rd charge, the battery got better.


----------



## DRuM (Sep 19, 2020)

Hi guys. I've told a friend to join the forums which he's just done and is awaiting moderator approval. Meanwhile, he asked if I could speak on his behalf about ear bud tips. He's just bought a pair of Boltune BT-BH024. He says he was led to believe they have stonking bass but he's not getting that at all.  He says he has bass but it's 'ok'. He's also told me that with both the medium and large pairs of tips, they work their way out of his ears a bit and so he pushed them back in. They also hurt his ears. So I don't know what the fix is. I'm wondering if it's earwax preventing a good seal, and pressing against earwax would probably make his ears hurt too. I imagine it would also reduce the amount of sonic quality. What do you think and what tips would you recommend for more bass, silicone or foam? Thanks!

Oh, he also said that someone with the same pair of boltune buds as him tried different tips and the lid of the charging box wouldn't close with them fitted.


----------



## voicemaster

DRuM said:


> Hi guys. I've told a friend to join the forums which he's just done and is awaiting moderator approval. Meanwhile, he asked if I could speak on his behalf about ear bud tips. He's just bought a pair of Boltune BT-BH024. He says he was led to believe they have stonking bass but he's not getting that at all.  He says he has bass but it's 'ok'. He's also told me that with both the medium and large pairs of tips, they work their way out of his ears a bit and so he pushed them back in. They also hurt his ears. So I don't know what the fix is. I'm wondering if it's earwax preventing a good seal, and pressing against earwax would probably make his ears hurt too. I imagine it would also reduce the amount of sonic quality. What do you think and what tips would you recommend for more bass, silicone or foam? Thanks!


I always prefer foam over silicone not only because it is easier to get a good seal, it is also more comfortable. The problem with using foam in tws is usually the foam is longer so it is quite common that the tws won't fit in the case. You can always cut the foam in half length so it can fit the case.


----------



## DRuM (Sep 19, 2020)

voicemaster said:


> I always prefer foam over silicone not only because it is easier to get a good seal, it is also more comfortable. The problem with using foam in tws is usually the foam is longer so it is quite common that the tws won't fit in the case. You can always cut the foam in half length so it can fit the case.



Thanks buddy.  Actually, he's just now told me that the person who tried different tips and couldn't close the box is a member here called regancipher who wrote a head-fi review. I've just seen the review which says that he also couldn't get the three pairs to fit properly and keeping them in the ears was problematic. He goes on to say what you've also mentioned about foam. He tried his INAIRS foam tips but were too deep to fit in the case. He contacted Boltune but got no response. Then he said he tried IKKO i-Planet foam tips which he thinks were designed for the Jabra 65T. They took a little edge off the upper mids but other than that he says the fit is outstanding with no issues.

So, my friend is now thinking of buying those. I suggested he buy a pair in medium and a pair in large. Do you know of those tips?


----------



## tma6

Kalli said:


> I will probably go for the ThieAudio Legacy 3 and wondering which wireless adapters are nice for those.
> Bluetooth or TWS. I'm not exactly sure yet what's the best option for me.
> 
> PS: If you think the L3 are crap for classical music, you're welcome to tell me what may be a better option. I'm new to the IEM business.



L3s are okay. The IBasso IT00 are cheaper and better imo and you can pair em with the IBasso CF01 TWS adapter for an iem true wireless solution.

L3s are fine for classical, very safe tuning. Solid timbre.


----------



## tma6

Btw I know I’ve been gone for a while, but honestly the galaxy buds + kinda satisfied my TWS needs for the past few months. Big fan, despite not having the absolute best sq. However, the nuarl n10 pros are def on my radar. Loved the N6P. Still think they’re the best sounding TWS on the market.


----------



## gibletzor

actorlife said:


> Ordered the Tranya T10’s. Gonna give them another chance and hope battery life is up to par. I returned the T2 and loved the SQ, but battery(50% volume) was 4hrs instead of 7hrs. Anyone else got the T10 and can confirm 8hrs?


Battery life is definitely acceptable on the T10s.  I haven't tested it 100 to 0 but I've never had to worry about them running out even when spending a few hours outside working.


----------



## Firevortex (Sep 19, 2020)

My Nuarl N10 Pro arrived few days ago. was surprised my local dealer in Australia stocked them on Jap release date. got it the next day matching the YEN retail price. Not sure if other dealers have them in stock but you can find the Aus dealer link on the Nuarl dealer list.

Didn't have much time to listen to them. but my initial impressions are it has much larger sound stage than the N6 Pro. One of the widest sound stage TWE i've listened to. The sound stage expands about 5cm-7cm outside your ear. the N6 Pro sound stage is around the base of your ear.

The sound presentation is more cold analytical. Compared to the N6 Pro it sounds colder brighter. N6 Pro has a warmer forward vocal presentation while the N10 Pro has more detail and the vocal doesn't seem to be forward like the N6 Pro. with the wide sound stage the separation and positioning of the instruments are fantastic.

I had issues with the eartips. while i usually use the spiral dot on most of my buds but it seems to leak sound on the N10 Pro. Had to use the foam tip that came with it to have a proper seal and boost up the bass. If you look at the earpiece design below the earbud stem is shorter than the N6 and the Sony so it doesn't reach deeper inside your ear. If i press the earbuds into my ear i feel there is a significant bass increase. with the stock foam tips the bass is about the same as the N6 Pro. might try some longer foam tips for a extra boost. The sound quality definitely is better than the N6 Pro...unless you prefer warmer vocals.

The size is to the larger side. the charger case is much longer too. the buds are about the same length as the N6 but its much thicker so it will stick out. its still smaller than the sony though.

Haven't played with the App or tested the ANC yet.


----------



## BigZ12

tma6 said:


> L3s are okay. The IBasso IT00 are cheaper and better imo and you can pair em with the IBasso CF01 TWS adapter for an iem true wireless solution.
> 
> L3s are fine for classical, very safe tuning. Solid timbre.


But with annoying driver flex I've read? (Edit: The IBasso IT00 I mean)


----------



## Aerosphere

_Hiby WH3 Reviewed on Headfonia. 
https://www.headfonia.com/hiby-wh3-review/_


----------



## tma6

BigZ12 said:


> But with annoying driver flex I've read? (Edit: The IBasso IT00 I mean)



Very annoying driver flex lol. But the sound is worth it imo.


----------



## actorlife

Thanks for the replies guys. Battery is so important since most are now going on 10hrs.



jant71 said:


> T10 or the M10??


T10. I should be getting them this week. $39 on Amazon right now.


----------



## Reebonz (Sep 20, 2020)

Stax TWS earbuds. Not likely to have an electrostatic driver, but hope it is not just Edifier rebrand.


----------



## Currawong

Reebonz said:


> Stax TWS earbuds. Not likely to have an electrostatic driver, but hope it is not just Edifier rebrand.



Of course it would be. Mind you, some of the TWS IEMs I've tried have been pretty good.


----------



## Bhelpoori

Firevortex said:


> My Nuarl N10 Pro arrived few days ago. was surprised my local dealer in Australia stocked them on Jap release date. got it the next day matching the YEN retail price. Not sure if other dealers have them in stock but you can find the Aus dealer link on the Nuarl dealer list.
> 
> Didn't have much time to listen to them. but my initial impressions are it has much larger sound stage than the N6 Pro. One of the widest sound stage TWE i've listened to. The sound stage expands about 5cm-7cm outside your ear. the N6 Pro sound stage is around the base of your ear.
> 
> ...


According to a Japanese review, if you set the app eq to "Warm" (perhaps the wrong translation?) then you get the N6Pro equivalent vocal presentation.


----------



## chinmie

as a display of typical human nature, although I'm currently satisfied with my TWS collections and the BT20S Pro, i still purchased this Tronsmart Onyx Free anyway, out of curiosity   
aside from the less than stellar mic quality (testing it with Voice Recorder), i really like this as a total package. Balanced sounding, soft clicky buttons, velvety rubber coating on the case, small case and unit size, able to use regular tips, full control, and APTX (for those who care). 
here's size comparison to the Gbuds


----------



## assassin10000

chinmie said:


> as a display of typical human nature, although I'm currently satisfied with my TWS collections and the BT20S Pro, i still purchased this Tronsmart Onyx Free anyway, out of curiosity
> aside from the less than stellar mic quality (testing it with Voice Recorder), i really like this as a total package. Balanced sounding, soft clicky buttons, velvety rubber coating on the case, small case and unit size, able to use regular tips, full control, and APTX (for those who care).
> here's size comparison to the Gbuds



Mind letting us know the actual battery life?


I was disappointed in the Spunky Beats only lasting me around 3hrs instead of 6-7 claimed. 

Granted I don't have a phone that currently does TWS+, even though it's SoC is capable of it (Damn you Google!).


----------



## chinmie

assassin10000 said:


> Mind letting us know the actual battery life?
> 
> 
> I was disappointed in the Spunky Beats only lasting me around 3hrs instead of 6-7 claimed.
> ...



I'll give it a battery test and report to you again later


----------



## Cretz42

Reebonz said:


> Stax TWS earbuds. Not likely to have an electrostatic driver, but hope it is not just Edifier rebrand.



You can see the Edifier logo on the earbud...


----------



## Cretz42

WOW. Just looking back at all the posts/pics in this thread. I was gone for a few months but decided to check back in and I'm glad to see y'all have not slowed down. TW has come a long way and is still changing by the week. 

That being said, I have the MPOW M5 and love them. The only issue I have is that when I am listening to only one earbud, I am still getting stereo mode output, so some of the sound is missing on some songs. My question is does anyone know of a TW set that has a very similar signature to the M5, but plays mono mode sound when only listening to one earbud? 

Thanks


----------



## Phil2020 (Sep 21, 2020)

Hey guys I bought my first pair of earbuds a few days ago, the Boltune BT-BH024 and they sound great and I have just ordered some memory foam eartips, as the silicon tips slightly hurt my ears after wearing them for a short time and they also slip out, only a few milimeters but enough to effect the sound quality....So hopefully I'll notice a improvement with the foam tips, but apparently the foam tips wear out quickly, just how quickly are we talking about?

These are the tips I have ordered in medium..... https://www.amazon.co.uk/i-Planet-Memory-Eartips-Earphone-S-Small-Black/dp/B07WJ8WVFM/ref=sr_1_3?crid=K0ZHIBJ2HIAD&dchild=1&keywords=ikko+i+planet&qid=1598614870&sprefix=ikko+,aps,155&sr=8-3&th=1


----------



## CocaCola15 (Sep 21, 2020)

Just almost ordered the new Bose Quietcomfort Earbuds, which my Paypal account lets me pay off over 9 months without interest. I backed out at the last minute. No reviews at all yet. Am I nuts? Haha. Still am fine with the Melomania, Blon 03 (using the ES100) and the L2P Pro. Enough already!

Of course, 2-3 stellar reviews and I am back to the Best Buy purchase page (Bose says 4-5 week wait). Of course, no volume control and no track skipping ability could be deal breakers.


----------



## assassin10000

Phil2020 said:


> Hey guys I bought my first pair of earbuds a few days ago, the Boltune BT-BH024 and they sound great and I have just ordered some memory foam eartips, as the silicon tips slightly hurt my ears after wearing them for a short time and they also slip out, only a few milimeters but enough to effect the sound quality....So hopefully I'll notice a improvement with the foam tips, but apparently the foam tips wear out quickly, just how quickly are we talking about?



They'll probably last a good long while. These don't deteriorate like the Comply foam does. 

They also have a 'skin' on the outside that helps keep them easy to clean/wipe off.


My Shure black foam (olives) have a similar design with a skin over the foam. That pair I've had since 2012, although it never got daily useage just occasional.


Fyi fixed your link (supposed to post without extra identifying info per forum rules). 
https://www.amazon.co.uk/i-Planet-Memory-Eartips-Earphone-S-Small-Black/dp/B07WJ8WVFM


----------



## jant71

hifi80sman said:


> Anyone spend time with the new Sennheiser CX 400 TWS?  Price seems high for what they are, but there's not much else new out there and apparently money burns a hole in my pocket.



Almost had that burning feeling and the N10 Pro was $220 shipped. Just held off. My JVC does fine and my Philips headphones I really like. What I really need is an open model more than anything and not another sealed in ear so I held off on the Nuarl. Though the Nuarl would be the choice over the CX400 BT giving quite a bit more for not much more money. They seem to sound the same out of the box - big stage and a more toward flat sound with detail.


----------



## jant71

Reebonz said:


> Stax TWS earbuds. Not likely to have an electrostatic driver, but hope it is not just Edifier rebrand.


Seems it is the Edifier but, IIRC, these are not sold but an included gift when you buy a certain STAX headphone.


----------



## actorlife

Arrived today and now charging.


----------



## tlau1125

voicemaster said:


> The n10p will be the successor of n6p. It is not released yet, I think. It is Nuarl flagship model if I am not mistaken.


I suspect Nuarl will continue to sell n6p along side n10p, because they have different features and price points.


----------



## logiatype

Why oh why is it not on Amazon? Do they usually take a while after the JPN release?


----------



## Laethageal

jant71 said:


> Almost had that burning feeling and the N10 Pro was $220 shipped. Just held off. My JVC does fine and my Philips headphones I really like. What I really need is an open model more than anything and not another sealed in ear so I held off on the Nuarl. Though the Nuarl would be the choice over the CX400 BT giving quite a bit more for not much more money. They seem to sound the same out of the box - big stage and a more toward flat sound with detail.



Mind telling me where you saw the N10 Pro?
Trying to find them in Canada and couldn't.

Still waiting on my Edifier TWSNB2 to arrive. Been 2 weeks and still not didn't arrive to the customs. On top of it, I broke my job TWS today and it was my only one.


----------



## jasonb

assassin10000 said:


> Mind letting us know the actual battery life?
> 
> 
> I was disappointed in the Spunky Beats only lasting me around 3hrs instead of 6-7 claimed.
> ...



TWS+ with my Lypertek Tevi and the OnePlus 7T I had was extremely buggy. Probably why Google has chosen to leave it out. Either that or it was just an issue with the Tevi themselves, but I'm not so sure.


----------



## jant71

Laethageal said:


> Mind telling me where you saw the N10 Pro?
> Trying to find them in Canada and couldn't.
> 
> Still waiting on my Edifier TWSNB2 to arrive. Been 2 weeks and still not didn't arrive to the customs. On top of it, I broke my job TWS today and it was my only one.



Amazon Japan. Just like regular Amazon. Even had points to use and they had a 10% off so it would have been $220 for me with Global Priority shipping.


----------



## Laethageal

jant71 said:


> Amazon Japan. Just like regular Amazon. Even had points to use and they had a 10% off so it would have been $220 for me with Global Priority shipping.


Thanks.

When I saw 27k yen being 345$ cad, I didn't realize it'd be close to your 220 with the 10% discount.


----------



## jant71 (Sep 21, 2020)

Laethageal said:


> Thanks.
> 
> When I saw 27k yen being 345$ cad, I didn't realize it'd be close to your 220 with the 10% discount.



Yep, It actually is 24,500 Yen when I go to checkout and 2,450 yen off for the 10% making them22,050Y. Then it takes my points even though it says exempt in the screen cap. So it is cheaper but then the shipping is 1,368Yen. So, it was about $220 US for me. Though I haven't pulled the trigger. Price isn't bad. Same with my JVC which will be $149 here but was $129 even though just released there. Had them for some time now and they still aren't released in the US. Damn...



Middle of June. Hopefully The Nuarl show up in North America before 3 months go by.


----------



## Laethageal

jant71 said:


> Yep, It actually is 24,500 Yen when I go to checkout and 2,450 yen off for the 10% making them22,050Y. Then it takes my points even though it says exempt in the screen cap. So it is cheaper but then the shipping is 1,368Yen. So, it was about $220 US for me. Though I haven't pulled the trigger. Price isn't bad. Same with my JVC which will be $149 here but was $129 even though just released there. Had them for some time now and they still aren't released in the US.


I'm wondering if I should pull the trigger as well. Got weird ear shape/small canals and only coming back at IEM/TWS to try and find something that fits. At 300ish cad$ to test and pretty much no way to return them without losing big, I'll wait to find them locally or at least in the country.


----------



## Laethageal (Sep 21, 2020)

Seems like with duties, it ends up at 26 836 yen
Hum.


----------



## Luke Skywalker

georgelai57 said:


> @Caipirina @chinmie
> Whenever I read a review on whether a TWS is good for phone calls, I don’t pay attention. I mean in 2020, who uses a phone to talk, verbalize, nowadays? Ha Ha
> If you really want to talk to me when I’m listening to music, I’ll call you when I’m finished with my music enjoyment thank you very much.


Oddly enough, I only use my Sony XM3's for calls.  I hate their sound for music but they seem to be excellent for phone calls.  The idiots I work with like to talk on the phone instead of getting work done


----------



## Luke Skywalker

Caipirina said:


> i think I am still good for a 1 year trial, from buying a new iPhone last year ... but I don't want to use the bandwidth to watch HD shows / movies on my phone ..  there are places where I can find tiny, but great quality x265 versions of shows in small file sizes


I have the T Mobile unlimited plan which is great for watching high quality video.  I only remember one time getting a little note from them when I used 60 GB in one month   saying they might slow my data down for quality of service for other uses or something.  They never did though


----------



## Luke Skywalker

erockg said:


> Preordered here.  Bday gift from my wife.  I don't need them, but I want them.


Yeah I ordered a pair too.  I still have a pair of Quiet Comfort 15's floating around my house and the gf has the 35's.  Not sure how they'll sound to me now that I have Audeze cans and JH Lola's but I always found Bose's noise cancelling to be great


----------



## Luke Skywalker (Sep 21, 2020)

Firevortex said:


> My Nuarl N10 Pro arrived few days ago. was surprised my local dealer in Australia stocked them on Jap release date. got it the next day matching the YEN retail price. Not sure if other dealers have them in stock but you can find the Aus dealer link on the Nuarl dealer list.
> 
> Didn't have much time to listen to them. but my initial impressions are it has much larger sound stage than the N6 Pro. One of the widest sound stage TWE i've listened to. The sound stage expands about 5cm-7cm outside your ear. the N6 Pro sound stage is around the base of your ear.
> 
> ...


I'm so jealous, sounds like they're better than the N6P eh?  (which are my favorite TWS)  Can't wait till I can order them in USA

*edit* Looks like the US version of the website is up.  that's gotta be a good sign that they'll be available soon right?  https://www.nuarl.com/en/n10pro/


----------



## Caipirina

Luke Skywalker said:


> I have the T Mobile unlimited plan which is great for watching high quality video.  I only remember one time getting a little note from them when I used 60 GB in one month   saying they might slow my data down for quality of service for other uses or something.  They never did though


Where I live there are no unlimited plans ... towards the end of the month we are always fighting who wasted the most data in our house (usually kiddo on YT, though he says he already tuned it down to lowest resolution)


----------



## Womaz

Hi guys , woule love some guidance. I have some wireless headphones and now looking to add some wireless IEMs.
I dont want to spend a lot of cash say £100 to £200 as they wont get a lot of use. I was just going to opt for a second hand Sony XM3 but I have been looking at this thread to get some other options, but this thread is long     
They will be used with my IPhone XR for outdoor use.
Any guidance would be greatly appreciated


----------



## axhng

more KZ TWS.


----------



## baskingshark

axhng said:


> more KZ TWS.



I hope they fixed the battery life and connectivity issues of the previous KZ wireless stuff.


----------



## axhng

baskingshark said:


> I hope they fixed the battery life and connectivity issues of the previous KZ wireless stuff.



Hope so too. my KZ Z1 lasts a whopping 40mins before powering off now (it's only 1 side that's draining that fast though, the other side can probably go on for a short while) this is after about 4 months of use and down from the initial 2hrs of battery life. lol ¯\_(ツ)_/¯


----------



## DynamicEars

axhng said:


> more KZ TWS.





baskingshark said:


> I hope they fixed the battery life and connectivity issues of the previous KZ wireless stuff.




Ditto, they need to fix batt life and connection prob, and hissing issue too. My KZ Z1 sounded great after mod and EQ, so i dont mind EQing with TWS or BT stuff since they are not using my DAP quality source.

Guys, wonder what "restart" meaning on the shell. A new start for KZ with solved problems? or re-start to milking us with new products every months after a bit quite during this early 2020? lol


----------



## typhoon838

Just curious, has anyone had experience with Tranya providing testing models for free? Looks like they are offering the T10 as a free review pair, but they want me to buy it first and then they say they'll refund me. Is it likely that that's trustworthy?


----------



## Caipirina

Womaz said:


> Hi guys , woule love some guidance. I have some wireless headphones and now looking to add some wireless IEMs.
> I dont want to spend a lot of cash say £100 to £200 as they wont get a lot of use. I was just going to opt for a second hand Sony XM3 but I have been looking at this thread to get some other options, but this thread is long
> They will be used with my IPhone XR for outdoor use.
> Any guidance would be greatly appreciated



Without giving too many pointers as to what your preferences are ... the tronsmart Apollo at 80 or so GBP are rather similar to the XM3 imho, with the bass a bit more boomy, and ANC maybe even a tad better .. there's also an app supposed to come out soon. 
The tronsmart spunky buds at 20-ish are a general go-to / cant go wrong recommendation of mine.
In the higher price segment, recently I find myself really enjoying the Galaxy Buds Live (or GBeans), even though I am usually a total apple fan boy. 
Oh, thinking of ANC, I keep forgetting the Panasonic RZ500 which are pretty awesome in sound and ANC 

for more ideas head over to scarbir.com for good leaderboards / comparisons


----------



## Caipirina (Sep 22, 2020)

axhng said:


> more KZ TWS.



Their TWS naming is getting silly! 
(case in point, after rereading the battery complaints of the Z1 I wanted to give them a listen again and utterly confused them with the T1 ;D ) 
and ... maybe there are some more interesting specs coming, but so far I don't see anything that is 'new' or interesting ...  why even bother mentioning passive / physical noise reduction?

Pass

(and yes ... 'restart' ??? )


----------



## Mouseman

typhoon838 said:


> Just curious, has anyone had experience with Tranya providing testing models for free? Looks like they are offering the T10 as a free review pair, but they want me to buy it first and then they say they'll refund me. Is it likely that that's trustworthy?


I have done that program before, and others have also reported doing it. I think they want you to show up as a verified purchase on Amazon,which is the reason for the process.


----------



## chinmie

@assassin10000  so i tested the Onyx free with Spotify and Netflix marathon, it lasted for 4:50 hours before it shuts down. not the best, but not the worst either. it might be able to be pushed a little longer in AAC


----------



## mikp

Well, I did receive the apollo bold from the contest. Last 2 years used jabra 65t for hikes (with ambient on) only for multipoint and waterproofing, not the sound...

Used the bold for 2 hours with ambient on, and much better sound and airy. But then ive never really liked the 65t the longer ive used them.


----------



## georgelai57

https://www.hardwarezone.com.sg/tec...arbuds-rolls-out-anc-upgrade-elite-75t-series


----------



## hmscott (Sep 22, 2020)

baskingshark said:


> I hope they fixed the battery life and connectivity issues of the previous KZ wireless stuff.





axhng said:


> Hope so too. my KZ Z1 lasts a whopping 40mins before powering off now (it's only 1 side that's draining that fast though, the other side can probably go on for a short while) this is after about 4 months of use and down from the initial 2hrs of battery life. lol ¯\_(ツ)_/¯


My pair of KZ S2's sound great and run for 3.5-4 hours depending on the volume and material.  I've found the BT problem is with signal rejection from other BT devices near the KZ S2's.  If I turn off my BT on the S20 Ultra and Active 2 watch I don't get any more BT drop out's from the KZ S2's unless I am near another BT source.  Fortunately my keyboard / trackpad are dedicated wireless - dongle not on BT frequencies - so they don't interfere with the KZ S2's.

Since receiving a pair of the Tranya T10's my KZ S2's are sitting idle... and I am hopeful the new Tranya M10's are even better...

I do hope the new KZ SA08 and KZ SKS are an improvement in every respect from the KZ S2's - KZ sure is taking a long iterative approach to improvements


----------



## DynamicEars

Wait, i got deceived by KZ wording. The SA08 will be 4 driver per side right? I thought its a 8 BA perside then i realize that KZ always use total BA left + right unit for marketing purpose.


----------



## webvan

georgelai57 said:


> https://www.hardwarezone.com.sg/tec...arbuds-rolls-out-anc-upgrade-elite-75t-series



"The Elite 75t and Elite Active 75t will also have ANC, thanks to a free over-the-air (OTA) update in October. This is made possible by Jabra's engineering on Qualcomm's chipset, which allows ANC to be enabled on existing true wireless earbuds."

Wow, that's a nice gesture and a first ! Besides the 75t are "closed" not "semi-open" like the new 85t so that should make for better overall isolation.


----------



## bubsdaddy

I picked up a pair of Jabra Elite 65T refurbs for next to nothing a couple of weeks ago. I am really enjoying the sound after messing with the EQ in the Jabra app a bit. I haven't been running with them yet but I plan to after I figure out what foam tips will fit. I find that foam tips on almost any IEM eliminate most or all of the runner's thud.


----------



## clerkpalmer

webvan said:


> "The Elite 75t and Elite Active 75t will also have ANC, thanks to a free over-the-air (OTA) update in October. This is made possible by Jabra's engineering on Qualcomm's chipset, which allows ANC to be enabled on existing true wireless earbuds."
> 
> Wow, that's a nice gesture and a first ! Besides the 75t are "closed" not "semi-open" like the new 85t so that should make for better overall isolation.


Agreed.  That's really cool of Jabra to provide that to existing customers rather than trying to force upgrades.  Well done.  Although semi-open actually sounds pretty good to me as I've grown to prefer it over the plugged ear feeling.


----------



## clerkpalmer

Laethageal said:


> Seems like with duties, it ends up at 26 836 yen
> Hum.


So if you grab off of Amazon Japan, do you lose a warranty in the US?  $255 isn't bad.  Bose is $279 so ...


----------



## clerkpalmer

clerkpalmer said:


> So if you grab off of Amazon Japan, do you lose a warranty in the US?  $255 isn't bad.  Bose is $279 so ...


Looks like there is 10% off.  So total USD is $231 off of Amazon japan.  Hmm.


----------



## Womaz

Caipirina said:


> Without giving too many pointers as to what your preferences are ... the tronsmart Apollo at 80 or so GBP are rather similar to the XM3 imho, with the bass a bit more boomy, and ANC maybe even a tad better .. there's also an app supposed to come out soon.
> The tronsmart spunky buds at 20-ish are a general go-to / cant go wrong recommendation of mine.
> In the higher price segment, recently I find myself really enjoying the Galaxy Buds Live (or GBeans), even though I am usually a total apple fan boy.
> Oh, thinking of ANC, I keep forgetting the Panasonic RZ500 which are pretty awesome in sound and ANC
> ...



Thanks for the reply. I guess for the in ear I a not too bothered about what type of sound signature it has as long as its not too bright. I have the Sony WMX2 over ears and they are bass heavy compared to my home kit, but I quite like this on the move. Its different but I quite enjoy it

I am considering he Sony as it seems a no brainer. Also reading a lot about your suggestion Tronsport Apollo, Lypertek Tevi, Imore and the Liberty 2 Pro.

Ok I would love to get the sound of my Etymotic ER4XR in a wireless ear bud but I know this will be very difficult. I think i dont have a particular sound signature that I prefer as I think I just get used to the different sound.


----------



## Luke Skywalker

Caipirina said:


> Where I live there are no unlimited plans ... towards the end of the month we are always fighting who wasted the most data in our house (usually kiddo on YT, though he says he already tuned it down to lowest resolution)


Yeah, i have gigabit at home so I try to use that wherever possible.  I also have a Verizon hotspot with unlimited data that I used at work but now that I'm working from home I wonder why I keep paying for it


----------



## rhsauer

clerkpalmer said:


> Agreed.  That's really cool of Jabra to provide that to existing customers rather than trying to force upgrades.  Well done.  Although semi-open actually sounds pretty good to me as I've grown to prefer it over the plugged ear feeling.


Agree.  This is one of those things that NEVER seems to happen, and will go a long way toward ensuring my customer loyalty to Jabra.


----------



## Laethageal (Sep 22, 2020)

typhoon838 said:


> Just curious, has anyone had experience with Tranya providing testing models for free? Looks like they are offering the T10 as a free review pair, but they want me to buy it first and then they say they'll refund me. Is it likely that that's trustworthy?





Mouseman said:


> I have done that program before, and others have also reported doing it. I think they want you to show up as a verified purchase on Amazon,which is the reason for the process.


Did Tranya contact you directly and then offered you a refund?



clerkpalmer said:


> So if you grab off of Amazon Japan, do you lose a warranty in the US?  $255 isn't bad.  Bose is $279 so ...



The issue is mostly with the trouble I'd have trying returning them if they don't fit my small and weirdly shaped ear. Also, 255$ to check a fit wasn't in my current budget, even less now that I learnt this morning that my daughter is Covid-19 positive and that both me and my wife will be losing our salary for at least 2 weeks .


----------



## typhoon838

mikp said:


> Well, I did receive the apollo bold from the contest. Last 2 years used jabra 65t for hikes (with ambient on) only for multipoint and waterproofing, not the sound...
> 
> Used the bold for 2 hours with ambient on, and much better sound and airy. But then ive never really liked the 65t the longer ive used them.



What tips are those you're using?


----------



## clerkpalmer

Laethageal said:


> Did Tranya contact you directly and then offered you a refund?
> 
> 
> 
> The issue is mostly with the trouble I'd have trying returning them if they don't fit my small and weirdly shaped ear. Also, 255$ to check a fit wasn't in my current budget, even less now that I learnt this morning that my daughter is Covid-19 positive and that both me and my wife will be losing our salary for at least 2 weeks .


Sorry to hear that.  Best of luck to you and your family.  Hopefully her symptoms are mild and you are back in business for 2 weeks.  

I am also passing on these.  I had fit issues with the N6 and there's no way to send them back to Japan.  I'll hold out for more reviews and an Amazon US option for returns.  I'm also in the mood for something more "fun" sounding and the Bose probably fit that better right now.


----------



## mikp

typhoon838 said:


> What tips are those you're using?


Those are spinfit 145, I have since put on the spinfit 360 xl. These Apollos needed a flusher fit with my ear canals, think it's because of their size. Too me they need some eq to find my taste, hope the app stores the setting in them.


----------



## Peddler

Womaz said:


> Thanks for the reply. I guess for the in ear I a not too bothered about what type of sound signature it has as long as its not too bright. I have the Sony WMX2 over ears and they are bass heavy compared to my home kit, but I quite like this on the move. Its different but I quite enjoy it
> 
> I am considering he Sony as it seems a no brainer. Also reading a lot about your suggestion Tronsport Apollo, Lypertek Tevi, Imore and the Liberty 2 Pro.
> 
> Ok I would love to get the sound of my Etymotic ER4XR in a wireless ear bud but I know this will be very difficult. I think i dont have a particular sound signature that I prefer as I think I just get used to the different sound.



I have the following TWS headphones:

Sony WF10000XM3
Lypertek Tevi
Mavin Air-X
ibasso CF01/IT00
Tronsmart Apollo

There are others, but they are the primary ones I use.  This list is also in order of my personal preference as well.  Whilst the Apollo's are growing on me. I use them at work and their noise cancelling does help with reducing things like engine noise but they are definitely not as good as the Sony's from both an active noise cancelling and sound quality perspective. I personally think that the Tevi's, Air-X and  ibasso combination sound more accurate, I just really like the Sony's sound character and it's features.  

I think the closest to the Etymotics sound (I used to have the Etymotics ER4P's and loved them) is perhaps the Tevi's or the ibasso CF01 + a fairly lean MMCX enabled IEM.


----------



## regancipher

chinmie said:


> @assassin10000  so i tested the Onyx free with Spotify and Netflix marathon, it lasted for 4:50 hours before it shuts down. not the best, but not the worst either. it might be able to be pushed a little longer in AAC



Yep I get a little more on AAC. I do listen on low volume though


----------



## Womaz

Peddler said:


> I have the following TWS headphones:
> 
> Sony WF10000XM3
> Lypertek Tevi
> ...


 That’s very helpful , thank you, and that is some collection you have


----------



## Francesco Montanari

Hi guys fiil just updated global apk on the site with new headsets and possibility to change prompt language to english

http://www.fiil.cn/en/download.php


----------



## Shinylemon (Sep 22, 2020)

Can someone tell me what the driver flex issue is with the n6 pro? Also does anyone here have a pair of phaiser fusion ones? How are they?


----------



## voicemaster

Shinylemon said:


> Can someone tell me what the driver flex issue is with the n6 pro? Also does anyone here have a pair of phaiser fusion ones? How are they?


Never had driver flex with mine.


----------



## erockg (Sep 23, 2020)

Boom!


----------



## Shinylemon

erockg said:


> Boom!


That case reminds me of a case for construction tools with that latch + colors. Are they good?


----------



## chinmie

erockg said:


> Boom!


nice! by the looks of it, that case should be waterproof, right?


----------



## Firevortex

Bhelpoori said:


> According to a Japanese review, if you set the app eq to "Warm" (perhaps the wrong translation?) then you get the N6Pro equivalent vocal presentation.



No. The only EQ function from the app is "Standard" "Soft" "Flat" the difference is it flattens the EQ, so "soft" is like a "Medium Flat". Its pretty useless. i prefer the standard tuning as it feels more dynamic.  They should make a Bass mode.

There is a issue with the ANC mode in the APP. if i turn it to "High" ANC in the APP the bass will be reduced to 0. which is pretty unusable if the "High" ANC function is turned on. But there is also a "Low" "Medium” choice which doesn't seem to affect the sound. Pretty sure they'll fix this with the next APP update. 



Luke Skywalker said:


> I'm so jealous, sounds like they're better than the N6P eh?  (which are my favorite TWS)  Can't wait till I can order them in USA
> 
> *edit* Looks like the US version of the website is up.  that's gotta be a good sign that they'll be available soon right?  https://www.nuarl.com/en/n10pro/



It does sound better but because of the 45 degree angle of the stem and the shorter length of it people might not get a good seal.
Pretty sure they will sell this on Amazon US like they have in the past.


----------



## gibletzor

typhoon838 said:


> Just curious, has anyone had experience with Tranya providing testing models for free? Looks like they are offering the T10 as a free review pair, but they want me to buy it first and then they say they'll refund me. Is it likely that that's trustworthy?


I have not had any issues with Tranya.  Always get the refund through Paypal within 24 hours of sending them a screenshot of my Amazon review.


----------



## erockg

chinmie said:


> nice! by the looks of it, that case should be waterproof, right?


Yes. Supposed to be.


----------



## erockg

Shinylemon said:


> That case reminds me of a case for construction tools with that latch + colors. Are they good?


Feels solid.  Love the wireless charging.


----------



## FYLegend

So I switched the eartips of the TaoTronics 94 to Galaxy Buds+ eartips. They have a deeper fit and seem to bring out the mids more when using ANC, but something weird happens when commuting using ANC. I get sudden spikes in volume which might be connected to how the ANC microphones are placed in my ear.

Also, after not using Galaxy Buds+ for a week or so, I noticed that one earbud was completely depleted of battery and would not connect, yet the earbuds still show a green light when mounted in the case. I had to wiggle them in the case to make them show a red light. Finally they started charging but were VERY slow suggesting the battery was heavily depleted.


----------



## Bhelpoori

Firevortex said:


> No. The only EQ function from the app is "Standard" "Soft" "Flat" the difference is it flattens the EQ, so "soft" is like a "Medium Flat". Its pretty useless. i prefer the standard tuning as it feels more dynamic.  They should make a Bass mode.


Mark that down as another reviewer failure... Thank you for the correction and agree an EQ like that is pretty useless.


----------



## regancipher

Francesco Montanari said:


> Hi guys fiil just updated global apk on the site with new headsets and possibility to change prompt language to english
> 
> http://www.fiil.cn/en/download.php



Hallelujuah! Finally I understand it! It's actually a really nice app now, other options include DSP audio enhance, wearing detection, low latency mode (although the text below is in Chinese) and wear detection settings


----------



## Francesco Montanari

regancipher said:


> Hallelujuah! Finally I understand it! It's actually a really nice app now, other options include DSP audio enhance, wearing detection, low latency mode (although the text below is in Chinese) and wear detection settings


Best true wireless under 60€ ever

Edit: t1 pro will arrive in few days


----------



## Bhelpoori

For those that are looking further ahead, the Bluetooth LC3 audio codec specification is published (scroll down towards the end) at:

https://www.bluetooth.com/learn-about-bluetooth/bluetooth-technology/le-audio/#lc3 

This page now also has a comparison tool that allows you to compare SBC and LC3. 

According to an interview at: https://www.bluetooth.com/blog/lc3-will-have-big-impact-on-the-next-generation-of-audio/ "I see a lot of companies currently getting LC3 implementations ready for the market. I’m definitely looking forward to buying my first LE Audio high-quality headphone with LC3 support. I hope I can do so next year." 

You should note that LC3 is one part of LE Audio which contains rather more than just a new codec.


----------



## logiatype

Firevortex said:


> No. The only EQ function from the app is "Standard" "Soft" "Flat" the difference is it flattens the EQ, so "soft" is like a "Medium Flat". Its pretty useless. i prefer the standard tuning as it feels more dynamic.  They should make a Bass mode.
> 
> There is a issue with the ANC mode in the APP. if i turn it to "High" ANC in the APP the bass will be reduced to 0. which is pretty unusable if the "High" ANC function is turned on. But there is also a "Low" "Medium” choice which doesn't seem to affect the sound. Pretty sure they'll fix this with the next APP update.
> 
> ...



There's no 5 or 10-band equalizer?


----------



## clerkpalmer

Bhelpoori said:


> For those that are looking further ahead, the Bluetooth LC3 audio codec specification is published (scroll down towards the end) at:
> 
> https://www.bluetooth.com/learn-about-bluetooth/bluetooth-technology/le-audio/#lc3
> 
> ...



Does LC3 require new hardware? Like a new smartphone or DAP?


----------



## logiatype

clerkpalmer said:


> Does LC3 require new hardware? Like a new smartphone or DAP?


LC3 is going to be BT 5.2+ so you will need new hardware (transmitters/receivers).


----------



## clerkpalmer

logiatype said:


> LC3 is going to be BT 5.2+ so you will need new hardware (transmitters/receivers).


Good to know my $2000 Galaxy Fold 2 isn't future proof ...


----------



## Shinylemon

clerkpalmer said:


> Good to know my $2000 Galaxy Fold 2 isn't future proof ...


Still such a beautiful phone....


----------



## clerkpalmer

Shinylemon said:


> Still such a beautiful phone....


Its pretty sweet. Feels like the future.


----------



## Shinylemon

clerkpalmer said:


> Its pretty sweet. Feels like the future.


I'm going to get one, but it just really sucks the CAD to USD ex. Rate sucks. Gotta pay $2600-$2700 because of it. That's really dipping into my IEM budget.


----------



## clerkpalmer

Shinylemon said:


> I'm going to get one, but it just really sucks the CAD to USD ex. Rate sucks. Gotta pay $2600-$2700 because of it. That's really dipping into my IEM budget.


Yeah, at least for me, after trade in and the Samsung 50% buyback guaranty, it only ends up costing me like $650 for 20 months of use.  Not sure whether Canada got those deals.


----------



## FYLegend

webvan said:


> "The Elite 75t and Elite Active 75t will also have ANC, thanks to a free over-the-air (OTA) update in October. This is made possible by Jabra's engineering on Qualcomm's chipset, which allows ANC to be enabled on existing true wireless earbuds."
> 
> Wow, that's a nice gesture and a first ! Besides the 75t are "closed" not "semi-open" like the new 85t so that should make for better overall isolation.


hmm, I felt like the 65t was "semi-open" for my ears due to the poor seal!

Makes you wonder how many TWS out there are capable of ANC and/or ambient sound but just don't use them. Samsung Galaxy Buds+ might but they'd want people to buy the Buds Live for that...

Again it seems they are using a Qualcomm chipset but not AptX. Wouldn't be surprised if it still only supports mono mode on the right earbud. Jabra and their weird ways...


----------



## Tavleen Suri

TheNikB said:


> Hi everyone,
> First time poster here but have been browsing for a while.
> 
> *I just picked up a pair of the Sennheiser Wireless Momentum 2 but I’m a bit underwhelmed with them.* The sound quality is good, but perhaps not “excellent”? Also the max volume is definitely on the low side for me and is an issue quite a few others report.
> ...


Just came across your post , I'll just add my 2 cents....if max volume on your mtw2 is an issue for you don't even consider the Sony xm3 and the master and dynamic mw07...i ve tried all 3 and was so dissapointed with their max vol....if you want something that sounds good and can get pretty loud as well try the tevis


----------



## jasonb

Tavleen Suri said:


> Just came across your post , I'll just add my 2 cents....if max volume on your mtw2 is an issue for you don't even consider the Sony xm3 and the master and dynamic mw07...i ve tried all 3 and was so dissapointed with their max vol....if you want something that sounds good and can get pretty loud as well try the tevis



I wonder how much this varies phone to phone, or with settings like "absolute volume". On my Pixel 4a, and was the same with the 3a, I listen to every true wireless buds in the 28 to 40% range for music recorded at a normal volume, and go up to maybe 50% on stuff that is mastered a but quieter than normal. I have the Tevi's, Galaxy Buds Live, and the WF1000xm3 and they all are plenty loud by 40% volume. I keep "Bluetooth absolute volume" enabled, meaning there is no separate volume control for the phone and the buds.


----------



## gibletzor

FYLegend said:


> So I switched the eartips of the TaoTronics 94 to Galaxy Buds+ eartips. They have a deeper fit and seem to bring out the mids more when using ANC, but something weird happens when commuting using ANC. I get sudden spikes in volume which might be connected to how the ANC microphones are placed in my ear.
> 
> Also, after not using Galaxy Buds+ for a week or so, I noticed that one earbud was completely depleted of battery and would not connect, yet the earbuds still show a green light when mounted in the case. I had to wiggle them in the case to make them show a red light. Finally they started charging but were VERY slow suggesting the battery was heavily depleted.


I've been using the GBuds+ tips on my Tranya B530s and they sound so much better on them than they do the Gbuds+!   lol


----------



## trivik12

webvan said:


> "The Elite 75t and Elite Active 75t will also have ANC, thanks to a free over-the-air (OTA) update in October. This is made possible by Jabra's engineering on Qualcomm's chipset, which allows ANC to be enabled on existing true wireless earbuds."
> 
> Wow, that's a nice gesture and a first ! Besides the 75t are "closed" not "semi-open" like the new 85t so that should make for better overall isolation.


How on earth can they do that. Does that mean it already has ANC hardware and now they are enabling it? They are saying it has Qualcomm chipset but Elite 75t does not support Aptx. 

Anyway I am thrilled with the news as I have Elite 75t.


----------



## jasonb

trivik12 said:


> How on earth can they do that. Does that mean it already has ANC hardware and now they are enabling it? They are saying it has Qualcomm chipset but Elite 75t does not support Aptx.
> 
> Anyway I am thrilled with the news as I have Elite 75t.



They've got to just be using the microphones for calls as ANC microphones.


----------



## assassin10000

jasonb said:


> They've got to just be using the microphones for calls as ANC microphones.



Definitely so IMO. Even other anc sets use them.

The nicer ones have inner and outer mics for feed forward and feed backward noise cancellation. Some have 6 mics, 4 outer and 2 inner. The 4 outer are usually for cvc filtering to filter out ambient noise from your voice on calls.


If the 75t doesn't have inner mics then probably only feed forward ANC. Sure it won't be as good as say the XM3'S but at least they're giving you ANC.


----------



## Robius

Just received Haylou T16. Sound is really detailed, one of the most detailed tws I've ever heard. Too much detail makes you feel like it's a little bit thin sounding but it isn't really. Fit is really good with spinfit tips. 

ANC seems to work really good but I didn't really test it outdoors. It easily blocks talking voice tho.
Transparent mode works really well. You can clearly hear yourself and others talking. It makes a hissing noise on low volumes but not audible after medium to max.
I didn't notice any latency while watching youtube.

I'll go for a bike ride to test outdoor mode which says it can block wind noise.

Only problem is when I try to connect it to my desktop PC it causes a BSOD. I don't know why but I'll try with a bluetooth 5.0 adapter. I'm currently using a 4.0 adapter.


----------



## chinmie

I've been using the Tronsmart onyx free for this couple of days, now i can say I'm really satisfied purchasing it. the sound really clicks for my preference: really balanced, with nice snap on the kick without boomy tails on the bass, clear mids without being in my face, and nice clear treble without overly sparkly. 

I'm using a short generic foam tips for TWS on it, and i like that it doesn't amplify the sound of the jaw and mouth while eating, and the thump from walking and running, while still there, also not covering up the music sound. 

if only the future update of the Apollo Bold App can get me to tune down the bass to this (Onyx Free) level, it would be a complete and killer TWS for sure


----------



## go0gle

Bhelpoori said:


> For those that are looking further ahead, the Bluetooth LC3 audio codec specification is published (scroll down towards the end) at:
> 
> https://www.bluetooth.com/learn-about-bluetooth/bluetooth-technology/le-audio/#lc3
> 
> ...



can't wait. should be right on time for the big names to refresh their "flagships"


----------



## AudioNoob

chinmie said:


> if only the future update of the Apollo Bold App can get me to tune down the bass to this (Onyx Free) level, it would be a complete and killer TWS for sure


I told them that as well but they said other users liked more bass :/


----------



## mikp

Did my first review here on head fi, for the apollos I got from the contest. Be kind..
https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/tronsmart-apollo-bold.24533/reviews#item-review-24377


----------



## Tronsmart Official

AudioNoob said:


> I told them that as well but they said other users liked more bass :/


Hi, 
I think you misunderstood. We said for the UI style ,different people have different opinions. Apollo Bold APP supports EQ adjustment, you can change what style you like.


----------



## Tronsmart Official

chinmie said:


> I've been using the Tronsmart onyx free for this couple of days, now i can say I'm really satisfied purchasing it. the sound really clicks for my preference: really balanced, with nice snap on the kick without boomy tails on the bass, clear mids without being in my face, and nice clear treble without overly sparkly.
> 
> I'm using a short generic foam tips for TWS on it, and i like that it doesn't amplify the sound of the jaw and mouth while eating, and the thump from walking and running, while still there, also not covering up the music sound.
> 
> if only the future update of the Apollo Bold App can get me to tune down the bass to this (Onyx Free) level, it would be a complete and killer TWS for sure


Hi,
Thank you very much for your sharing. Apollo Bold APP supports to adjust the EQ. You can change what style you like. Hope you will like it. And we will also keep improving it.


----------



## FYLegend

trivik12 said:


> How on earth can they do that. Does that mean it already has ANC hardware and now they are enabling it? They are saying it has Qualcomm chipset but Elite 75t does not support Aptx.
> 
> Anyway I am thrilled with the news as I have Elite 75t.


The 75t/75t Active does use a Qualcomm chip but Jabra likely chose to use it for other reasons than AptX or single-bud use.  One wonders if having multi-point also affects having the latter two (though I find this unlikely). Jabra seemed to be focused on balanced controls and "usability" but it was a poor decision to promise single-bud use only to abandon it when it seemed like something simple to implement.

Sennheiser's TWS supports AptX but can't do single-bud usage even though it seems the hardware is capable of that.  I'm not sure what's the rationale behind that.

Likewise I have a feeling many TWS are capable of ANC if they already use a noise canceling feature for either calls or ambient sound. The Galaxy Buds+ has this wind reduction filter in the ambient hearthrough added around April. Unless you have a constant sound in the background, the ambient feed is eerily quiet like some noise reduction is going on. Rumours suggested the Galaxy Buds+ was to have ANC, so it is possible they abandoned the idea to make people go for the Buds Live later.

Now comes the idea of how and whether the end-user can tinker with firmware to enable locked features. I recall seeing a video of a GAIA app being used to fix a reverse stereo problem with GRDE TWS (which used QCC3020) but the video was so poorly explained but it seems to be a backend used by OEMs...


----------



## TheNikB

erockg said:


> Boom!



Damn! Very nice bro. Any chance on a brief review? 

Over the past two weeks I’ve tested the top models from Sony, Sennheiser and Master & Dynamic. None of them really “wowed” me but perhaps I’m not looking for the most accurate earbuds and something a bit “richer”. I liked the Master & Dynamic the best bud my ears did not agree with them comfort wise regardless of tips used. Ordered the new THX certified 1More but was shipped an old model so sent them back.

Had my eyes on the Klipsch T5 II and was just waiting for them to be released. I don’t need ANC, just transparency mode so the model you got is perfect. Basically now debating between these, something from Shure or waiting for the T10. I’m not the kind of guy to really have more than one set so I don’t mind spending a fair amount to get something that will impress me.

Anyway, thanks for sharing the pics and enjoy!


----------



## DigDub

Buds live sleeves. Hope it becomes available in other countries too.

https://www.samsung.com/us/support/tip/TIP00087482/


----------



## jant71 (Sep 24, 2020)

Some might be into this...

Mpow Duolink TWS and speaker combo











New JVC October 1st for the budget price of $29.99


----------



## eiraku (Sep 24, 2020)

Francesco Montanari said:


> Hi guys fiil just updated global apk on the site with new headsets and possibility to change prompt language to english
> 
> http://www.fiil.cn/en/download.php



Hopefully this "change prompt language" thing works for the T1XS... which I just ordered because of this.

I've been curious about the "Fiil sound" for a while now. Being able to get it at a relatively good price (around USD 40 with cashbacks and coupons etc) plus news that the prompt language can now be changed, I... well... caved 🤣

It'll be fun to see how it measures up to my meager stable of TWS Buds (the L2P and the Outlier Air).

Next thing to save up for? Either the N10s or the BT20 Pros (for my TRN V90s).

Now I'm wondering if I can hack a wireless charging coil into the T1XS charging case somehow.


----------



## AudioNoob (Sep 24, 2020)

Tronsmart Official said:


> Hi,
> I think you misunderstood. We said for the UI style ,different people have different opinions. Apollo Bold APP supports EQ adjustment, you can change what style you like.


So there will be other options than the ones on the alpha/beta version? (Pop, Rock, Classical, etc all have either elevated bass or muffled highs and largely sound underwater) That's great, I thought I explicitly said the options are all more bassy/veiled and you said others liked them. Anyhow, look forward to the release with better eq.

I just downloaded the 2.0 release and it still has the same eq options that boost bass and/or reduce highs.


----------



## erockg (Sep 24, 2020)

TheNikB said:


> Damn! Very nice bro. Any chance on a brief review?
> 
> Over the past two weeks I’ve tested the top models from Sony, Sennheiser and Master & Dynamic. None of them really “wowed” me but perhaps I’m not looking for the most accurate earbuds and something a bit “richer”. I liked the Master & Dynamic the best bud my ears did not agree with them comfort wise regardless of tips used. Ordered the new THX certified 1More but was shipped an old model so sent them back.
> 
> ...


Sad to say I don't have much time for an in depth review.  They do blow away the first gen.  Fit so much better and so many tip options in the box.  The wingtips do slip like others have mentioned.  It's annoying, but I really don't need the wingtips.  No dropouts like the first gen that I've noticed yet.  The case I big but solid.  Wireless charging is great.  Charging pad works for all my wireless charging devices.  Sound signature is flat with clean bass.  Wide sound stage.  I adjusted the EQ a bit within the app.  App works better on V2 than V1.  Transparency mode works well.  I used them on a multiple work Zoom calls this morning and zero issues with people hearing me.  Hmmm.... what else.  The USB C cable is braided.  Nice touch.  These are everything V1 should have been and more IMO.  The latest Tool album is euphoric through these buds.  In heaven or hell depending on how you look at it.  I've had the Sonys, Sennheiser and M&D and I'm always picking up my Klipsch.  That didn't come out right.


----------



## Tim Le

Hello all, I'm looking to get wireless IEMs specifically for working out with a budget of $50. I have no experience with any wireless IEM, and I was hoping someone could point me in the right direction.

I'm primarily looking for something that's built tough (they're bound to be dropped, and I sweat a lot). As for sound signature, I'd prefer a more fun U shaped sound signature. As a reference, Sony MDR-XB90ex were my favorite for the gym.

Thanks in advance for all the help!


----------



## Tavleen Suri

jasonb said:


> I wonder how much this varies phone to phone, or with settings like "absolute volume". On my Pixel 4a, and was the same with the 3a, I listen to every true wireless buds in the 28 to 40% range for music recorded at a normal volume, and go up to maybe 50% on stuff that is mastered a but quieter than normal. I have the Tevi's, Galaxy Buds Live, and the WF1000xm3 and they all are plenty loud by 40% volume. I keep "Bluetooth absolute volume" enabled, meaning there is no separate volume control for the phone and the buds.


Am starting to think my ears are pretty f.... Up and am barely 30 lol...i usually try whatever tws I get on my lg v40 and shanling m0....out of the 10 something tws I ve tried only the sabbats tevis and the bose have been gud/ loud enuf for the gym... And I do have the absolute volume enabled ....


----------



## TheNikB

erockg said:


> Sad to say I don't have much time for an in depth review.  They do blow away the first gen.  Fit so much better and so many tip options in the box.  The wingtips do slip like others have mentioned.  It's annoying, but I really don't need the wingtips.  No dropouts like the first gen that I've noticed yet.  The case I big but solid.  Wireless charging is great.  Charging pad works for all my wireless charging devices.  Sound signature is flat with clean bass.  Wide sound stage.  I adjusted the EQ a bit within the app.  App works better on V2 than V1.  Transparency mode works well.  I used them on a multiple work Zoom calls this morning and zero issues with people hearing me.  Hmmm.... what else.  The USB C cable is braided.  Nice touch.  These are everything V1 should have been and more IMO.  The latest Tool album is euphoric through these buds.  In heaven or hell depending on how you look at it.  I've had the Sonys, Sennheiser and M&D and I'm always picking up my Klipsch.  That didn't come out right.



I appreciate the insight. I think I’m going to give these an order today. I’ll let you know my thoughts as well. I had Klipsch computer speakers many years ago and they were excellent.


----------



## assassin10000

Tim Le said:


> Hello all, I'm looking to get wireless IEMs specifically for working out with a budget of $50. I have no experience with any wireless IEM, and I was hoping someone could point me in the right direction.
> 
> I'm primarily looking for something that's built tough (they're bound to be dropped, and I sweat a lot). As for sound signature, I'd prefer a more fun U shaped sound signature. As a reference, Sony MDR-XB90ex were my favorite for the gym.
> 
> Thanks in advance for all the help!



Aren't the xb90ex basshead? If so I'd say the Jabra 75t might work but they are out of your price range. 


A great resource on cheaper TWS:
https://www.scarbir.com/

And higher priced:
https://crinacle.com/guide/tws/


----------



## Tim Le (Sep 24, 2020)

assassin10000 said:


> Aren't the xb90ex basshead? If so I'd say the Jabra 75t might work but they are out of your price range.
> 
> 
> A great resource on cheaper TWS:
> ...


Appreciate it, thanks! And yeah, the XB90ex are super bass heavy with very sparkly treble haha. I'd buy another pair except they're like 3x-4x in price now :/


----------



## Francesco Montanari

eiraku said:


> Hopefully this "change prompt language" thing works for the T1XS... which I just ordered because of this.
> 
> I've been curious about the "Fiil sound" for a while now. Being able to get it at a relatively good price (around USD 40 with cashbacks and coupons etc) plus news that the prompt language can now be changed, I... well... caved 🤣
> 
> ...



Language change works on Fiil T1 XS


----------



## CoryGillmore

Ok guys what's the current best of the best in true wireless IEMs? I'm looking to get something for work use to run off a Lenovo P70 workstation laptop. This laptop only has a BT4.2 radio...so I can pickup an external BT transmitter as well if BT4.2 won't cut it for whatever reason. I'll be streaming Tidal Hifi from this laptop. I am a big Sony fan and the XM3 has been tempting for sure. What's the current TOTL, money no object true wireless system? (Note: I cannot bring Jabra products into my work as we do business with Jabra. So no Jabra!)


----------



## assassin10000 (Sep 24, 2020)

Tim Le said:


> Appreciate it, thanks! And yeah, the XB90ex are super bass heavy with very sparkly treble haha. I'd buy another pair except they're like 3x-4x in price now :/



Sounds like the Soundcore Liberty 2 Pro's would be comparable sound wise... unfortunately also out of your price range.


I haven't kept up with the cheaper TWS, hopefully someone else has some experience to share.




CoryGillmore said:


> Ok guys what's the current best of the best in true wireless IEMs? I'm looking to get something for work use to run off a Lenovo P70 workstation laptop. This laptop only has a BT4.2 radio...so I can pickup an external BT transmitter as well if BT4.2 won't cut it for whatever reason. I'll be streaming Tidal Hifi from this laptop. I am a big Sony fan and the XM3 has been tempting for sure. What's the current TOTL, money no object true wireless system? (Note: I cannot bring Jabra products into my work as we do business with Jabra. So no Jabra!)



Got any sound signature preference? Any features you must have (ie: ANC/ambient/etc)?

Sennheiser MTW
AKG n400
Nuarl n10p (maybe?)
M&D mw07+


----------



## d3myz

DB10 said:


> Hi, I have bought the Ikko i-Planet that you recommended me in this thread for my Galaxy Buds +, they fit fine and the sound is great, quite a good tips (foam type). I bought the M size.
> 
> Thanks for all your help and advice!!!


Right on! I’m glad you’re enjoying them.


----------



## d3myz

Haven’t been on in a while. @Tronsmart Official, where’s this app for the Apollo Bold? I’ve been checking several times each week on the iOS App Store in the app still only supports this spunky beats. I love the AB’s But the touch sensors only work half the time and they are SLOW changing modes. They desperately need some customizable controls and an EQ to balance them out.


----------



## d3myz (Sep 24, 2020)

Anyone else find this little hidden gem in iOS14? It’s very deep within settings>accessibility>AirPods> Headphone accommodations> Transparency mode. As if the transparency mode on the AirPods Pro wasn’t good enough, now you can boost them to a superhuman level, make them brighter or darker and pan L or R.


----------



## logiatype

So it seems that the Nuarl N10 Pro don't have an actual equalizer. So sad. Pretty much all I was looking forward to...
I've been told that the N6P are brighter than the Tevi (as bright as I can take) and it seems the N10P are even brighter... Sad

I guess it's the N400 for me now.


----------



## eiraku

Francesco Montanari said:


> Language change works on Fiil T1 XS



Fantastic to have this confirmed (saw the menu items for it in the app settings too). Also EQ settings wooooo.

Can't wait for mine to arrive now. Let's see how the "Budget King" compares to the rest of my stuff.


----------



## CoryGillmore

assassin10000 said:


> Sounds like the Soundcore Liberty 2 Pro's would be comparable sound wise... unfortunately also out of your price range.
> 
> 
> I haven't kept up with the cheaper TWS, hopefully someone else has some experience to share.
> ...


Fun and V shaped. Or balanced with good bass. ANC would be most useful, as I work in an environment where I need to talk to people often. One thing that sucks about my current handmedown Jlab Air TW IEMs is that I can’t control Tidal with the controls on the IEM. So it would be MOST useful to have a TW IEM that could control the laptop, at least play/pause.


----------



## assassin10000 (Sep 24, 2020)

CoryGillmore said:


> Fun and V shaped. Or balanced with good bass. ANC would be most useful, as I work in an environment where I need to talk to people often. One thing that sucks about my current handmedown Jlab Air TW IEMs is that I can’t control Tidal with the controls on the IEM. So it would be MOST useful to have a TW IEM that could control the laptop, at least play/pause.



MW07+ would be the fun v-shaped.
MTW2 is more balanced but seems to be missing some pinna gain.
N400 is very close to harman tuned.


All 3 have ANC, strength varies. 

Did you perhaps mean ambient would be good for talking? Or did you mean you don't have to talk often,


All will be on SBC if your workstation uses windows, unless you get a dongle that supports AAC or APT-X. The BT5.0 should also give you a stronger connection.


Crinacle has graphs of all of them here:
https://crinacle.com/graphs/iems/graphtool/


----------



## Tronsmart Official

d3myz said:


> Haven’t been on in a while. @Tronsmart Official, where’s this app for the Apollo Bold? I’ve been checking several times each week on the iOS App Store in the app still only supports this spunky beats. I love the AB’s But the touch sensors only work half the time and they are SLOW changing modes. They desperately need some customizable controls and an EQ to balance them out.


Hi,
Apollo Bold APP will release next week! In the end of this month! We are testing now.


----------



## CoryGillmore

assassin10000 said:


> MW07+ would be the fun v-shaped.
> MTW2 is more balanced but seems to be missing some pinna gain.
> N400 is very close to harman tuned.
> 
> ...


Yes I think ambient mode is what I need. That the mode that allows speaking voices to come through? Like selective noise cancelling? 

Ive been researching the Fiio BTR5 tonight. It looks like the device I need. I can plug it into my laptop via USBC and it will act as a DAC and transmit a BT signal, right? I know you can also use it as a BT receiver, but that’s not the use I need from it. Will using the Fiio interfere with the IEMs ability to control Tidal with its function buttons?


----------



## LoryWiv (Sep 25, 2020)

CoryGillmore said:


> Yes I think ambient mode is what I need. That the mode that allows speaking voices to come through? Like selective noise cancelling?
> 
> Ive been researching the Fiio BTR5 tonight. It looks like the device I need. I can plug it into my laptop via USBC and it will act as a DAC and transmit a BT signal, right? I know you can also use it as a BT receiver, but that’s not the use I need from it. Will using the Fiio interfere with the IEMs ability to control Tidal with its function buttons?


The BTR5 is an excellent device, I enjoy mine greatly. However I don't think it transmits, rather it is a BT receiver you can plug your wired IEM's into it and use them with the BTR5's dac / amp. from a BT source (phone, PC etc...) This allow you to be at a distance from your phone or PC and of course works even when the BTR5 is not plugged in to either.

To transmit BT either your source's built in or USP dongle transmitters by Levantree, others may solve fulfill your use case.


----------



## CoryGillmore

LoryWiv said:


> The BTR5 is an excellent device, I enjoy mine greatly. However I don't think it transmits, rather it is a BT receiver you can plug your wired IEM's into it and use them with the BTR5's dac / amp. from a BT source (phone, PC etc...) This allow you to be at a distance from your phone or PC and of course works even when the BTR5 is not plugged in to either.
> 
> To transmit BT either your source's built in or USP dongle transmitters by Levantree, others may solve fulfill your use case.


Ah dammit. I’ll look into these Levantree devices. I want as good of a fully wireless solution as possible. A high quality transmitter feeding high quality true wireless IEMs


----------



## jsmiller58

Does anyone know if the n400 supports aptX?  

I think I will wait to see what the impressions are for the n10 pro and definitely pick between the two...  probably 

or maybe the Klipsh T5 II...

arrrggghhh...  too many choices..l


----------



## LoryWiv

CoryGillmore said:


> Ah dammit. I’ll look into these Levantree devices. I want as good of a fully wireless solution as possible. A high quality transmitter feeding high quality true wireless IEMs


I am using Levantree DG60 V.1 that outputs 24 bit / 48 kHz AptXHD from PC, which BTR5 receives. The latter is super light, clips to my shirt and with IEM cable also tucked in for me it is (almost) as portable and comfortable as a TWS, with the advantage you can use your favorite wired IEM and stream at 24 bit. PM me if you want more info since you are correct, strictly speaking this isn't a TWS solution and thus is off-topic.


----------



## tgx78

jsmiller58 said:


> Does anyone know if the n400 supports aptX?
> 
> I think I will wait to see what the impressions are for the n10 pro and definitely pick between the two...  probably
> 
> ...



I don’t think the n400 supports aptx. Sbc & aac only.


----------



## Kalli

tma6 said:


> L3s are okay. The IBasso IT00 are cheaper and better imo and you can pair em with the IBasso CF01 TWS adapter for an iem true wireless solution.
> 
> L3s are fine for classical, very safe tuning. Solid timbre.


So many options. 
Also thinking of getting the L5 when they arrive in Germany. Probably mid October.


----------



## jant71

I pre-ordered the new Cleer Goal in black...




Saw the original price of $129 was dropped so they were $99.99 @B&H. Got enough sealed in-ear stuff and no worries about ambient footfall noise etc. In addition to the lower price they added some battery to the original spec. 6 hours still but now three full charges for 18 more in the case with 5 minute for 1 hour quick charge. They have aptX, IPX5 now up from IPX4 at CES announcement. Auto pause resume on both sides, 4 silicone skins S,M,L wings and no wing. Customizable touch controls and EQ etc. with use of the app. 13.4mm drivers. USB C but not wireless charging which is the only thing I feel is missing for a situational awareness sports bud. At the lower price I was okay with no wireless charging so it obviously didn't deter me from ordering.


----------



## Caipirina

DigDub said:


> Buds live sleeves. Hope it becomes available in other countries too.
> 
> https://www.samsung.com/us/support/tip/TIP00087482/


 Yeah, missing support document / video on HOW TO GET THEM!


----------



## d3myz

Tronsmart Official said:


> Hi,
> Apollo Bold APP will release next week! In the end of this month! We are testing now.


Great News, I'd like to mention a couple of things.

1. If it doesn't have Customizable EQ, a Firmware update tool and Button Customization,  DON'T RELEASE IT UNTIL IT DOES. Presets, suck!  For me the only mode I can currently use for audio is OFF.

2. It takes 3-4 seconds to cycle between modes, when you are around people and need to switch modes, it's MUCH quicker to take them out, then to have to wait for the voice prompt and the device to switch. There needs to be an option to turn off the voice prompts and speed up the Cycle, like on the Sony XM3's. 

3. Something needs to be done about the touch sensors, maybe I have a bad pair, but I have to tap at the bottom half of the earbud to get it to recognize and unless they are deliberate, like almost forceful taps the don't always register.


----------



## d3myz

jant71 said:


> I pre-ordered the new Cleer Goal in black...
> 
> Saw the original price of $129 was dropped so they were $99.99 @B&H. Got enough sealed in-ear stuff and no worries about ambient footfall noise etc. In addition to the lower price they added some battery to the original spec. 6 hours still but now three full charges for 18 more in the case with 5 minute for 1 hour quick charge. They have aptX, IPX5 now up from IPX4 at CES announcement. Auto pause resume on both sides, 4 silicone skins S,M,L wings and no wing. Customizable touch controls and EQ etc. with use of the app. 13.4mm drivers. USB C but not wireless charging which is the only thing I feel is missing for a situational awareness sports bud. At the lower price I was okay with no wireless charging so it obviously didn't deter me from ordering.



I can't seem to find any info about these, I see them at B&H, but there's no photo, info etc. Could you provide a link?


----------



## helmutcheese

helmutcheese said:


> https://www.h1.soundpeatsaudio.com/
> 
> Still have not going to learnt 6hr per charge is not great today.





DynamicEars said:


> how much is the soundpeats H1? specs looks great with 8.6mm DD + 1 Knowles BA





helmutcheese said:


> No clue, you need to sign up for early deal.


----------



## jant71

d3myz said:


> I can't seem to find any info about these, I see them at B&H, but there's no photo, info etc. Could you provide a link?


Best source is probably the manual... https://fccid.io/2ATS9-1313/Users-Manual/15-GOAL-UserMan-4815066
Cleers latest(they just put info up today... https://cleeraudio.com/in-ear-headphones/goal/
And pics way back around CES time...


----------



## jasonb

Caipirina said:


> Yeah, missing support document / video on HOW TO GET THEM!



I have them coming in 3-5 business days. I contacted them via the online chat and asked for them and they are sending them out to me. It was a long slow conversation, but it went well. I've always kind of had issues with consistent fit, and maybe this will fix that. Or it could possibly make them seal better and bloat the bass even more. We'll see soon I guess.


----------



## helmutcheese

*Listen to Bluetooth’s low power, high quality LC3 codec coming soon to headphones*


Listen to Bluetooth’s low power, high quality LC3 codec coming soon to headphones - The Verge (theverge.com)

Here is another I use: 

Bluetooth A2DP SBC/aptX Online Encoder (valdikss.org.ru)


----------



## AudioNoob

d3myz said:


> Great News, I'd like to mention a couple of things.
> 
> 1. If it doesn't have Customizable EQ, a Firmware update tool and Button Customization,  DON'T RELEASE IT UNTIL IT DOES. Presets, suck!  For me the only mode I can currently use for audio is OFF.
> 
> ...


It would be good if one could also 1) choose the default anc mode when you take it out of the case 2) disable one of the three cases so that you can cycle between two of your choice.


----------



## BigZ12 (Sep 26, 2020)

d3myz said:


> Anyone else find this little hidden gem in iOS14? It’s very deep within settings>accessibility>AirPods> Headphone accommodations> Transparency mode. As if the transparency mode on the AirPods Pro wasn’t good enough, now you can boost them to a superhuman level, make them brighter or darker and pan L or R.


Thanks, nice find.
It didn't just help with transparency mode, but with the sound quality as well.
Try the "Custom Audio Setup". When getting to the Music section I use Version 2 in Comparison 1 and Version 1 for Comparison 2 and 3.
You get a little brighter sound with higher amount of details, clarity and definately a little more open/airy sound as well. (edit: You can get it even brighter with setting Version 2 on the other Comparisons too, but I found that to be too much)
Thanks


----------



## d3myz

BigZ12 said:


> Thanks, nice find.
> It didn't just help with transparency mode, but with the sound quality as well.
> Try the "Custom Audio Setup". When getting to the Music section I use Version 2 in Comparison 1 and Version 1 for Comparison 2 and 3.
> You get a little brighter sound with higher amount of details, clarity and definitely a little more open/airy sound as well. (edit: You can get it even brighter with setting Version 2 on the other Comparisons too, but I found that to be too much)
> Thanks


I actually just set mine manually in the headphone audio. The custom audio setup is just a wizard that helps you determine which of the 3 settings and their volume levels you prefer, it's not a custom eq per say.  You can adjust it in the Tune Audio For: section. I use the brightness setting on slight (normal volume). It's much better for me, but the dumb air pods still don't have any bass.


----------



## BigZ12

d3myz said:


> I actually just set mine manually in the headphone audio. The custom audio setup is just a wizard that helps you determine which of the 3 settings and their volume levels you prefer, it's not a custom eq per say.  You can adjust it in the Tune Audio For: section. I use the brightness setting on slight (normal volume). It's much better for me, but the dumb air pods still don't have any bass.


I hear noticable difference by using the setting I described.
The Brightness setting is too bright for me.
Bass? I think they have plenty bass  (I use the large Comply tips) 
Is the fit test green?


----------



## Sam L

@assassin10000 suggested the participants on this thread use wavelet more than the earbuds thread.

Here are a couple wavelet files I made for 2 tws' that don't sound very good stock. they are exponentially better to my ears now.


----------



## Firevortex (Sep 27, 2020)

Hey guys, just want to share the Nuarl App as there is a few questions regarding the selections (see attached pic).
The selection is pretty limited and the App is pretty useless IMO. Its also buggy with the ANC mode i mentioned previous when you set it to "High" it removes all Bass from your music.
I used the ANC mode out doors and its pretty powerful i would rated equal or better than the Sony if set on "High". wind noise on both ambient sound and ANC is pretty minimal.
I played around with other ear tips and N10 Pro definitely lacks bass. If you think N6 Pro lacks bass i would avoid the N10 Pro. but the sound stage and clarity is definitely a level above the N6 Pro. When i did A/B testing the N6 Pro sounds like its playing underwater when compared to the N10. The resolution of the  N10 Pro will make you notice the difference between poorly recorded or low bit rate tracks to higher bit rate tracks. It's definitely "audiophile" territory.


----------



## xkcd0137 (Sep 27, 2020)

Which TWS for best sound stage and vocals under 30$?

I like the sound of Tin T2, Soundmagic E10C. I listen to Opeth, Porcuine Tree, Cigarettes after Sex, Ghulam Ali,  Sufjan Stevens, Agnes Obel, Valentina Lisitsa, Bollywood/Punjabi songs.

Scarbir has recommended Edifier and Soundpeats but both are NOT shipping to India right now.

Following are shipping to India right now -
KZ S2 - 29$
Redmi Airdots S - 18$
mifa X8 - 21$
QCY T5 - 25$
QCY M10 - 25$
QCY T9S - 26$
QCY T1 Pro - 32$
Tronsmart Spunky Beat - 28$
Tronsmart Onyx Free - 38$
Haylou GT1 - 22$

Edit -
Soundcore Life Note - 30$ (Available in India)

Or pair TRN BT20S/BT3S with Tin T2s?? - 40$/20$


----------



## assassin10000

xkcd0137 said:


> Which TWS for best sound stage and vocals under 30$?
> 
> I like the sound of Tin T2, Soundmagic E10C. I listen to Opeth, Porcuine Tree, Cigarettes after Sex, Ghulam Ali,  Sufjan Stevens, Agnes Obel, Valentina Lisitsa, Bollywood/Punjabi songs.
> 
> ...



Avoid KZ Bluetooth anything IMO. 
Airdots are reportedly mediocre.

Spunky beats sound decent. Onyx free others said was ok too. Skip regular gt1, the gt1 plus is the version that is good iirc.


----------



## SilverEars

assassin10000 said:


> MW07+ would be the fun v-shaped.
> MTW2 is more balanced but seems to be missing some pinna gain.
> N400 is very close to harman tuned.
> 
> ...


MW07 wasn't fun.  Too much treble like the measurement shows and bass was bloated like any TWS that has boosted bass.  MTW2 also sounds like graphed, tonality sucked.  Treble boosted with upper-mids sucked out.  Both have mediocre responses.  MTW2's ANC was mediocre as well.

I recently got to try the Galaxy Buds Live and it was terrible.  Bass was rolled off, but I could tell they tried to boost it with mediocre results.

I'm still with my APP and nothing else for me.  Majority of crap talked about here are not worth my time with a bunch of cheap chifi garbage.  I sampled a few and realized not worth the time.


----------



## xkcd0137

assassin10000 said:


> Avoid KZ Bluetooth anything IMO.
> Airdots are reportedly mediocre.
> 
> Spunky beats sound decent. Onyx free others said was ok too. Skip regular gt1, the gt1 plus is the version that is good iirc.


Thanks. GT1 Plus are not shipping to India right now. 

Should I instead get a TRN BT20S/BT3S and pair with my Tin T2? Will that be better than all available options?


----------



## chinmie

xkcd0137 said:


> Thanks. GT1 Plus are not shipping to India right now.
> 
> Should I instead get a TRN BT20S/BT3S and pair with my Tin T2? Will that be better than all available options?


 if you could stretch the budget a bit, i would suggest to go with the BT20S Pro. the case and noise level are really an improvement compared to the older BT20 and BT20S version


----------



## dwells

Man, I wish either the Edifier NB2 or Fiil T1XS would hurry up and hit Amazon already. I’m still hunting for a good set of earbuds under $80 that hit all my checkboxes (call quality, USB-C, compact case, good sound). Might just wind up caving and blowing the budget and snagging some AirPods Pro before I leave to travel again.


----------



## Newguyuk

Firevortex said:


> Hey guys, just want to share the Nuarl App as there is a few questions regarding the selections (see attached pic).
> The selection is pretty limited and the App is pretty useless IMO. Its also buggy with the ANC mode i mentioned previous when you set it to "High" it removes all Bass from your music.
> I used the ANC mode out doors and its pretty powerful i would rated equal or better than the Sony if set on "High". wind noise on both ambient sound and ANC is pretty minimal.
> I played around with other ear tips and N10 Pro definitely lacks bass. If you think N6 Pro lacks bass i would avoid the N10 Pro. but the sound stage and clarity is definitely a level above the N6 Pro. When i did A/B testing the N6 Pro sounds like its playing underwater when compared to the N10. The resolution of the  N10 Pro will make you notice the difference between poorly recorded or low bit rate tracks to higher bit rate tracks. It's definitely "audiophile" territory.


What’s the call quality like for the nurse n10. I think these pretty much tick all my boxes and hopefully they will be available in the U.K. soon.
Thank you


----------



## regancipher

I've left a tutorial on how to change the default language to English on the FIIL T1XS on my instagram if anyone is still struggling..


----------



## Laethageal

dwells said:


> Man, I wish either the Edifier NB2 or Fiil T1XS would hurry up and hit Amazon already. I’m still hunting for a good set of earbuds under $80 that hit all my checkboxes (call quality, USB-C, compact case, good sound). Might just wind up caving and blowing the budget and snagging some AirPods Pro before I leave to travel again.


Mine is coming from AliExpress and should be home soon. Delivery date is expected between the 24 sept and 09 nov.


----------



## nuggetbro

For anyone curious, it seems that KZ have another new set in coming called the SA08. For 4 drivers per ear but doesn't look like a qualcomm processor in these (it isn't mentioned). Also no battery life is mentioned, which makes me worry with KZ because they generally have shorter lives then their competitors. 

If they sound as good as the KZ E10, but fix the connection issues, I might be interested. The E10 are still my fav sounding TWS.


----------



## d3myz

BigZ12 said:


> I hear noticable difference by using the setting I described.
> The Brightness setting is too bright for me.
> Bass? I think they have plenty bass  (I use the large Comply tips)
> Is the fit test green?
> ...


----------



## d3myz

Sorry if this is a repost, but I’m really excited. I use my 75t’s everyday for work and I love them. So excited to get a free ANC upgrade. https://www.theverge.com/platform/a...rbuds-announced-active-noise-cancellation-75t


----------



## dwells

Anyone got the Tribit FlyBuds NC and can speak to them at all? They’re $30 on Amazon US right now and based on the Scarbir review they look like they might be the best bang for buck.


----------



## Rayners

Hello all, i have finally decided to jump on the TWS ship, and i am looking for recommandations. Here's my criteria :

Mandatory :
- Should be available on Amazon Europe (i have a 25€ voucher haha)
- Less than 100€
- AptX and/or LDAC
- Neutral or Warm sound
- Easy volume and/or skip track control
- USB-C charging
- No AirPods-like TWS (i prefer a fully closed TWS, like the AirPods Pro or the Galaxy Buds)

Optional :
- ANC
- Wireless Charging

Thank you in advance


----------



## BigZ12

Rayners said:


> Hello all, i have finally decided to jump on the TWS ship, and i am looking for recommandations. Here's my criteria :
> 
> Mandatory :
> - Should be available on Amazon Europe (i have a 25€ voucher haha)
> ...


Lypertek Tevi


----------



## Guardian91

Rayners said:


> Hello all, i have finally decided to jump on the TWS ship, and i am looking for recommandations. Here's my criteria :
> 
> Mandatory :
> - Should be available on Amazon Europe (i have a 25€ voucher haha)
> ...


Tronsmart Apollo Bold


----------



## Rayners (Sep 28, 2020)

BigZ12 said:


> Lypertek Tevi



I like them, i just fear that the case might be too big, thanks !



Guardian91 said:


> Tronsmart Apollo Bold



This was my first choice (i can get them for around 55€ with an Amazon France discount + my voucher) but based on the reviews i read they are too bassy, can you confirm ?

Another TWS i had in mind are the 1More Colorbuds and the Soundpeats Truengine 3SE, what do you all think about these one ?


----------



## chinmie

Rayners said:


> I like them, i just fear that the case might be too big, thanks !
> 
> 
> 
> ...



as of right now, the Apollo is very bassy, but you can use it with EQ app like the Wavelet to cut down the bass. bassy as it does, the mids and trebles and overall driver capabilities are actually quite good. 

if you're not in a hurry, you can wait for the apollo app to come out (which should be in days) and see if the users here like it. 

other option for balanced sound that i can recommend is the Onyx Free.


----------



## The Jojo

d3myz said:


> Sorry if this is a repost, but I’m really excited. I use my 75t’s everyday for work and I love them. So excited to get a free ANC upgrade. https://www.theverge.com/platform/a...rbuds-announced-active-noise-cancellation-75t



Amazing, isn’t it? I really love my 75t, and when I read that I‘m getting a free ANC upgrade I was totally stunned. Really looking forward trying ANC combined with well sealing InAirs - should be an interesting concept.


----------



## Peddler

My Apollo's are really starting to shine. If you're in a very noisy place, the boosted bass really enhances the sound quality (external noise tends to Rob you of bass imo). However I think the Tevi's (and the Mavin Air-X) are an excellent alternative and so sound more accurate than the Apollo's in my opinion.


----------



## jant71 (Sep 28, 2020)

Don't look too bad for budget ANC and sounds like they are improving the sound some from earlier models.


...and latest comparing the 3SE and H1

As far as the H1 having more bass, I am not so sure the amount and quality won't improve with some hours on the dynamic and the difference in SQ between the two will increase some more.


----------



## gibletzor

Does anyone else with the BT20S Pro get a really high pitched squeal in the background?  I know I've heard of the earlier versions having a loud hissing noise but this is just a quiet EEEEEEEEEE.  It's quiet enough I can only hear it between songs or if the song gets quiet, but it's annoying.  I thought it was my new KZ ZAX at first, but they don't do it when wired to my PC or old Galaxy S6, or BT through my Fiio BTR20.  My KZ ZSN have the same background squeal as well when used with the BT20S Pros as well.  I thought maybe it was just the BT connection from my S20U but they do it over BT from my S6 as well.  There's not much to adjust on these so I'm wondering if I didn't just get a dud...


----------



## Cretz42

The Jojo said:


> Amazing, isn’t it? I really love my 75t, and when I read that I‘m getting a free ANC upgrade I was totally stunned. Really looking forward trying ANC combined with well sealing InAirs - should be an interesting concept.



The fact that the Jabra 75s are not true mono mode (left cannot be used singularly without right) is so disappointing to me. I would have seriously considered them with the ANC upgrade if it weren't for that.


----------



## BigZ12 (Sep 28, 2020)

https://www.xbykygo.com/eu/xellence


----------



## marcus2704

I received a pair of Jabra 75T Actives a few days back and have been really impressed.  I bought these then found the 85Ts are out soon which is a slight disappointment..  Arguably however, I prefer the sound of my much loved Anker Soundcore Liberty 2 Pro's but there is hardly anything in it and they both sound fantastic.  The fit of the 75Ts is amazing though, and this makes them the winner for when I am out and about.  They are to receive a ANC firmware update soon which will be interesting.  

Whilst much the same as any other bluetooth earphone I have ever tried, I just wish I could crank the volume just a bit higher.  That bit of headroom would make all the difference.


----------



## Robius

Finally had some time to test Haylou T16's outdoor (wind noise blocking) mode while cycling and it works amazing. Even with strong crosswinds and speeds up to 50km/h I didn't hear any wind noises. Since it's focusing for wind noise you can still hear the ongoing traffic. Amazing!


----------



## howdy

marcus2704 said:


> I received a pair of Jabra 75T Actives a few days back and have been really impressed.  I bought these then found the 85Ts are out soon which is a slight disappointment..  Arguably however, I prefer the sound of my much loved Anker Soundcore Liberty 2 Pro's but there is hardly anything in it and they both sound fantastic.  The fit of the 75Ts is amazing though, and this makes them the winner for when I am out and about.  They are to receive a ANC firmware update soon which will be interesting.
> 
> Whilst much the same as any other bluetooth earphone I have ever tried, I just wish I could crank the volume just a bit higher.  That bit of headroom would make all the difference.


You don't think the 75ts are loud? Just for shi!s and giggles I turned my 75t up all the way and could only handle it for a second or two. My ears still hurt a bit from that even. I'm a 47 year old man with fairly good hearing still. 
To each their own, but that was really loud.


----------



## 284033

Just an opinion on TWS in general, but has it ever occurred to anyone that TWS are mobile phone accessories, and a modern version of the Nokia earpiece during the 3310 era?

With the phone manufacturers coming up with their TWS products with proprietary system integrated features with their phones and tablets, it seems like in the end, TWS will just be separated to 3 types of players:

1. Phone manufacturers or tech giants (Apple, Samsung Sony, etc.)
2. Cheap Chinese brands (xiaomi, Sabbat, etc.)
3. Established sports earphone manufacturers (Jabra)


----------



## phaijai

I'm in the market for a new pair of TW IEM. I've used the Jabra 65T in the past and loved the seal and the way it sounded.  I've also used the Powerbeats Pro and Airpods primarily for phone calls because I found the mic to be really good.  I was about to pull the trigger on the Jabra Elite Active 75T got intrigued by the Tronsmart Apollo Bold.  The battery life and price point looks great.  Any input on the mic quality? I see it has 6 mics to help with noise canceling but don't know how that translates to phone calls.  I am on the phone a good portion of the day so mic quality is high on my priority list.


----------



## FYLegend

BigZ12 said:


> https://www.xbykygo.com/eu/xellence


These don't look too bad, but they remind me of that Indiegogo scam "Song X" by Aria. They stoop as far as adding fake comments like "I received the wrong colour and you forgot the ring protector", but it seems no real backer has received the product yet.



d3myz said:


> Sorry if this is a repost, but I’m really excited. I use my 75t’s everyday for work and I love them. So excited to get a free ANC upgrade. https://www.theverge.com/platform/a...rbuds-announced-active-noise-cancellation-75t


I just hope they don't raise the price up after...


----------



## AudioNoob

phaijai said:


> I'm in the market for a new pair of TW IEM. I've used the Jabra 65T in the past and loved the seal and the way it sounded.  I've also used the Powerbeats Pro and Airpods primarily for phone calls because I found the mic to be really good.  I was about to pull the trigger on the Jabra Elite Active 75T got intrigued by the Tronsmart Apollo Bold.  The battery life and price point looks great.  Any input on the mic quality? I see it has 6 mics to help with noise canceling but don't know how that translates to phone calls.  I am on the phone a good portion of the day so mic quality is high on my priority list.


It's pretty alright, gets a little overwhelmed by wind and sound like you are in a tunnel driving with your windows open. I think it's partly that it picks up a lot more of the lower end where other earphone just high pass filter most of the bottom end. Part of the reason you like the two you mentioned are that they have elongated cases that can direct the mic pickup cone better towards your mouth and out of the amplifying dish that is your ear.


----------



## eiraku (Sep 29, 2020)

Andddd my T1XS direct from China has landed on my shores. In 4 days from ordering. That was really quick TBH.

Should probably be in my hands by this weekend as I work kinda far from where the buds will be shipped to (about 150km far 🤣).

Can't wait to try 'em out at this point (especially to see if Gaming Mode is any better than the L2P on Apt-X for... uh... "light" gaming).


----------



## uraklechko

Hey guys! Did anyone have a chance to compare Fiil T1x and Sennheiser MTW2 in terms of sound quality? Is there a significant difference in favor of MTW2? I own T1X and thinking about upgrading to the better sounding model. Thanks in advance.


----------



## Robius

uraklechko said:


> Hey guys! Did anyone have a chance to compare Fiil T1x and Sennheiser MTW2 in terms of sound quality? Is there a significant difference in favor of MTW2? I own T1X and thinking about upgrading to the better sounding model. Thanks in advance.


If you want better sounding TWS you should look at AKG N400.


----------



## McArooni

The AKG N400 sound remarkably good. I wasn't a huge fan in the beginning due to fit issues, the included tips were just too small to properly seal my ear canal, so even noise cancelling was essentially useless. I ordered the TWS specific tips from Comply in large size and they made a massive difference. Now with proper sealing, NC and a minor bass boost via equalizer (personal preference) they've become my commute companions. The only annoying thing is the weird pair/unpair procedure that makes me waste quite some time every time I go from dap to smartphone. The usability of the app is also not great, and I wish controls were a bit more customizable, bur for sound quality they exceeded my expectations.


----------



## uraklechko

Robius said:


> If you want better sounding TWS you should look at AKG N400.



Unfortunately, no way to get them in Belarus, where I'm from  Thanks for your suggestion anyway


----------



## jant71 (Sep 29, 2020)

Creative Outlier Air 2...




5.6mm Graphene, aptX, "electrostatic" touch controls, improved mics/call quality, antenna upgrade, X-Fi ready. IPX5 and 12 hour/34 total battery life.

and Aviot TE-BD21J









Reworking of the older F model triple hybrid. BT5.2, aptX Adaptive, says more responsive Titanium dynamic and matched BA drivers and smaller housing. Qualcomm true wireless mirroring, Improved mic and ambient function. High performance touch sensors for the controls. USB C, IPX4 and 9 hours battery time. Comes with a leash which I like so you can hang them around your neck and even leave the case home. Release price in Yen converts to $140.
https://www.translatetheweb.com/?from=&to=en&ref=TVert_ct&dl=en&rr=HE&a=https://aviot.jp/


----------



## phaijai

AudioNoob said:


> It's pretty alright, gets a little overwhelmed by wind and sound like you are in a tunnel driving with your windows open. I think it's partly that it picks up a lot more of the lower end where other earphone just high pass filter most of the bottom end. Part of the reason you like the two you mentioned are that they have elongated cases that can direct the mic pickup cone better towards your mouth and out of the amplifying dish that is your ear.


 
Got it.  Thanks for the response.  I suppose I'll purchase the 75T and Tronsmart and put them both through their paces.


----------



## clerkpalmer

McArooni said:


> The AKG N400 sound remarkably good. I wasn't a huge fan in the beginning due to fit issues, the included tips were just too small to properly seal my ear canal, so even noise cancelling was essentially useless. I ordered the TWS specific tips from Comply in large size and they made a massive difference. Now with proper sealing, NC and a minor bass boost via equalizer (personal preference) they've become my commute companions. The only annoying thing is the weird pair/unpair procedure that makes me waste quite some time every time I go from dap to smartphone. The usability of the app is also not great, and I wish controls were a bit more customizable, bur for sound quality they exceeded my expectations.


I love mine for the sound as well.  Regard fit, I am using spin fits and they work well.  The rest of the package is pretty meh but they do more right than wrong and overall sq is superb.  Changing topics, I was perusing Best Buy's website last night waiting for my Bose to ship and noticed a dozen or more reviews on them.  I preordered pretty quickly.  Anyone know how/how there are reviews already?  Has anyone received them yet?  Bose was supposed to ship tomorrow and BB is showing 10/8.  Are these like freebees?  If so, where do I sign up?


----------



## AudioNoob

phaijai said:


> Got it.  Thanks for the response.  I suppose I'll purchase the 75T and Tronsmart and put them both through their paces.


Jabra is a headset company, they probably have been around the longest among bluetooth earpiece makes so its hard to match their capacity for microphone design. So if you are looking for multipoint or if mic quality is paramount, I'd be surprised to see a better option. Airpod Pros are probably up there, again, Apple pouring research to optimize call quality as they are meant to go with a phone.


----------



## Sam L

AudioNoob said:


> Jabra is a headset company, they probably have been around the longest among bluetooth earpiece makes so its hard to match their capacity for microphone design. So if you are looking for multipoint or if mic quality is paramount, I'd be surprised to see a better option. Airpod Pros are probably up there, again, Apple pouring research to optimize call quality as they are meant to go with a phone.


Sadly there really is no close second to the APP in call quality. The jabra 75t is probably it. I'm eager to hear your eval of the tronsmart apollo bold.


----------



## logiatype

Sam L said:


> Sadly there really is no close second to the APP in call quality. The jabra 75t is probably it. I'm eager to hear your eval of the tronsmart apollo bold.


It's a shame (but also a testament to good engineering) that no TWS is even close to the APP in mic quality. I talk to co-workers who use it and they sound like they are right in my ear!!!


----------



## logiatype

Looks like it'll be a while till the N10 pro is available in the US 
From Nuarl support:





Snagged a cheap/used N6 Pro to test the Nuarl sound before then.


----------



## erockg (Sep 29, 2020)

Sam L said:


> Sadly there really is no close second to the APP in call quality. The jabra 75t is probably it. I'm eager to hear your eval of the tronsmart apollo bold.


Actually, I've been using my Klipsch T5 II's for over a week now on Zoom calls at my home office for work.  Zero complaints.  Nobody has noticed a difference between them and my APP.  Yet.


----------



## Rob E.

logiatype said:


> Looks like it'll be a while till the N10 pro is available in the US
> From Nuarl support:
> 
> 
> Snagged a cheap/used N6 Pro to test the Nuarl sound before then.


I've read (here on this thread) a lot of wonderful comments about the N6 pro's resolution. So, what's your impression?


----------



## jant71

DigDub said:


> Been using the Aviot TE-BD21F triple drivers for a few days. The overall sound is neutral with a slight warmness. It works well with almost all genres, especially for instrumental and movies. The sound is never fatiguing, but detailed at the same time. Aviot has done a very good job of extracting the maximum from each of the 3 drivers. Some companies put a gazillion drivers into their IEMs, but tune them to sound like they have a limited range (too bright or too bassy). Aviot makes the treble sound tight and fast, mids have a natural timbre and bass hits hard when required without sounding flabby. On top of hearing the music, the Aviot lets listeners hear how the music is played. Very impressive effort from Aviot.
> 
> Controls-wise, volume control is on the left bud, playback control is on the right bud. When unconnected for a few mins, the buds will auto off, it is also possible to manually power off and on them by pressing the buttons. The ability to manually turn it off and on means I do not have to bring the case out.



Went and found this again. Looks like they extracted some more from 3 drivers.  Might have to pop on the 21J. Liking the red with the gold the size improvement and the adaptive. Also like Aviot auto pauses when ambient is activated. On my JVC I tap L to pause and then tap right for ambient. Since I always pause anyway it is good they set it that way. $150-ish price is good for what you get.


----------



## logiatype

Rob E. said:


> I've read (here on this thread) a lot of wonderful comments about the N6 pro's resolution. So, what's your impression?


Should have them by the weekend. I'll tag you on my thoughts.


----------



## typhoon838

Tim Le said:


> Appreciate it, thanks! And yeah, the XB90ex are super bass heavy with very sparkly treble haha. I'd buy another pair except they're like 3x-4x in price now :/



So I'm a bit of a basshead myself and really like the Mpow MS1, Tranya T3, and Tranya T10 all within that price range. If you want to spend a bit more, the Apollo Bolds are my favorite current pair but they're kinda nice and I wouldn't want to drop them haha


----------



## webvan

A few mode days to go before the arrival of the Bose Sports and QuietComfort Earbuds ! Just found an unboxing of the Sports version, it's eye candy I suppose


----------



## FYLegend

jant71 said:


> Creative Outlier Air 2...
> 
> 5.6mm Graphene, aptX, "electrostatic" touch controls, improved mics/call quality, antenna upgrade, X-Fi ready. IPX5 and 12 hour/34 total battery life.
> 
> ...



Maybe in Taiwan or Singapore you could get a price similar to that but I'm having a hard time tracking down Aviot and Nuarl in Canada. eBay has listings for some of their products but are usually around/above 250$.

The spec sheet for the Aviot also says it only has TrueWireless Mirroring and not Stereo Plus and the spec sheet implies it is only a master-slave connection.

In a recent video El Jefe said the SoundPeats H1 (which uses QCC3040) has seamless host-swapping for the earbuds rather than the clunky switching system of the QCC3020. Wondering if this means they only support TW Mirroring and not TWS Plus, and the Aviot is doing the same.

Auto-pause when ambient sound is activated CAN be convenient, but sometimes I just wish I could continue to play my music. On my TaoTronics 94 I can use the 20Decebel app for that but I'd rather not dabble into an app and have it as an option.


----------



## regancipher

phaijai said:


> I'm in the market for a new pair of TW IEM. I've used the Jabra 65T in the past and loved the seal and the way it sounded.  I've also used the Powerbeats Pro and Airpods primarily for phone calls because I found the mic to be really good.  I was about to pull the trigger on the Jabra Elite Active 75T got intrigued by the Tronsmart Apollo Bold.  The battery life and price point looks great.  Any input on the mic quality? I see it has 6 mics to help with noise canceling but don't know how that translates to phone calls.  I am on the phone a good portion of the day so mic quality is high on my priority list.



The best earbuds I have found for call quality are the Edifier TWS NB2. They are really in a league of their own - you have to make a trade off (form factor is definitely designed with calls in mind) and they only support SBC (although they have played around with the bitpool settings so it is ultra low latency) but they are my go-to for wfh.

The Tronsmart Apollo Bold are different. They eliminate background noise indoors well, but a little too well as you can sound a little muffled yourself at times. This is to be honest to be expected since your mouth is further from the microphone than stem-based earbuds, but it's fine indoors as long as you take this into consideration.

Outdoors it does block out some background noise but the muffling becomes exacerbated, not to the point of the cheapy mpow etc but still, it's there, and it's again to be expected.

The Tranya T10 are great for calls if you are on a budget. I got rid of mine because the plastic on the top rubbed the cartilage and made them uncomfortable but it was undeniable they had a quality about them.

Finally, if you find yourself seduced by the 'AI mic' on the the Taotronics SoundLiberty 79.....don't be. Yes it is very good handling calls, but everything else on it is shocking!


----------



## regancipher

eiraku said:


> Andddd my T1XS direct from China has landed on my shores. In 4 days from ordering. That was really quick TBH.
> 
> Should probably be in my hands by this weekend as I work kinda far from where the buds will be shipped to (about 150km far 🤣).
> 
> Can't wait to try 'em out at this point (especially to see if Gaming Mode is any better than the L2P on Apt-X for... uh... "light" gaming).



Enjoy! I've put a video tutorial on how to change the default language to English, as well as a QR code to download the apk android, on my instagram : regancipher.

If yours are like the majority of others that are on the market right now you'll be greeted by Chinese voice prompts out of the box!

There's also a mention on the video of how to switch the controls so you can use the touch control to adjust volume.


----------



## regancipher

Massive well done to @Tronsmart Official who delivered on their promise of Apollo Bold app support by the end of September!





I've been working with them to iron out a few creases in the Android version, in a week they have made GIANT strides, fixing or remedying everything I mentioned and have released it now on IOS and Android. The beta allowed you to upgrade from fw 1.0 to 1.4.0 - now they are on 1.2.3, so these guys must be working day and night!

The firmware must be updated one bud at a time. Take one out of the case, update, then swap them over and repeat.

This is their first iteration so the controls are fairly basic at this stage. The main screen gives you battery indicators, and toggle buttons for ANC and ambient. The three dots in the corner take you to the next screenshot, where you can update the firmware.





First thing to do is update the firmware. I was testing 1.04 so to move to 1.2.5 shows they've been pulling out all the stops - the new version supports different EQ's, enables customised touch control, and distinguishes between the left and right bud when used in single mode:




Updating the firmware is done as per the clear instructions:

1. Take Left earbud out of case which should remain open
2. Initiate firmware download and install. Do not navigate away from the app and ensure the case and buds have sufficient charge
3. Once complete, restore the updated bud to its place in the case and remove the other
4. Repeats step 2
5. You have updated your firmware!




The Equaliser is a little rudimentary but it does a job. I know they wanted to integrate a spotify-style dynamic EQ - unfortunately it was outside the scope of what was possible within the timescales.

The default profile seems to notch the bass off a little more.
The classical overcompresses the mids
Jazz is nice, probably my preferred EQ after the default
Pop rolls the top end off and is ideal for dance music where it can be uncomfortable on highhats
Rock is pretty awful -avoid!

The new default handles the bass nicely now, and doesn't compress the life out of the mids, so those of you complaining of subbass rumbles should try this EQ first.





Finally, the controller. I haven't tried changing the settings as I like the existing ones, but here they are:








There is a spelling mistake on ambient, but we can let them off 

Finally, to answer some questions:

Q1 - Is Aptx-HD supported?
A1 - No, not yet. Tronsmart are working with Qualcomm to try and get there - the issue lies with Qualcomm, not Tronsmart

Q2 - Is the mic quality better?
A2 - No, it sounds identical, perhaps a little more distant and slightly better at cancelling out background noise, but this could be the placebo affect!

Q3 - Any other comments?
A3 - Connectivity is definitely more stable, the app is intuitive and easy to use. As we have seen with Edifier, first releases are quickly followed with updates, so hold fire on flaming them for the apt-xhd situation and congratulate them on keeping their promises!


----------



## chinmie

regancipher said:


> Massive well done to @Tronsmart Official who delivered on their promise of Apollo Bold app support by the end of September!
> 
> 
> 
> ...



great! where can i get it? is it the same tronsmart app that's on playstore for spunky beats, or a different app?


----------



## regancipher

chinmie said:


> great! where can i get it? is it the same tronsmart app that's on playstore for spunky beats, or a different app?


Yep, same app on IOS for sure, I guess android would be the same


----------



## Caipirina (Sep 30, 2020)

regancipher said:


> Massive well done to @Tronsmart Official who delivered on their promise of Apollo Bold app support by the end of September!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Nice one! I especially like that button / touches can be totally remapped even to ‘disable’ ... this way I disabled the casual first touch (most common offender when I try to readjust the fit) to nothing 

the FW update was not as straightforward as I thought. There is always the fear of bricking a device. But all went ok.

one possible bug (for next update @Tronsmart Official ) is that it seems the ‘disconnect’ function is not working (yet?). I tried, it sends me to the connect device screen, as if I can connect again, all the while the Apollos continuing playing music.


----------



## mikp

regancipher said:


> Massive well done to @Tronsmart Official who delivered on their promise of Apollo Bold app support by the end of September!
> 
> 
> 
> ...



good info, lets see if its stored the eq on the buds. Now waiting for it to come on play store (ive never owned some apple device).


----------



## jant71

FYLegend said:


> Maybe in Taiwan or Singapore you could get a price similar to that but I'm having a hard time tracking down Aviot and Nuarl in Canada. eBay has listings for some of their products but are usually around/above 250$.
> 
> The spec sheet for the Aviot also says it only has TrueWireless Mirroring and not Stereo Plus and the spec sheet implies it is only a master-slave connection.
> 
> ...



I would have the Cleer Goal as an ambient model essentially since it let's you hear all the time naturally. My JVC drops the volume but doesn't pause. I just use it to talk through. The JVC might as well pause since it drops to a low level and can be heard but barely if noisy outside. Then again the JVC is more talk through and ambient tips are include and the real way to go ambient on them. I could even use the ambient tips on the Aviot. The auto pause works since I would do it anyway to go into a store or stop and talk to someone. The Aviot is more about being  the SQ option and just needs talk through for me.


----------



## Laethageal

Anyone tested the Pamu Quiet?

https://igg.me/at/pamuquiet/x#/


----------



## AudioNoob (Sep 30, 2020)

It does store the eq on the buds, hopefully they add some useful eq options, currently they are all muffling.

I've been the foil to that glowing review above, being also an early tester, I've been advocating for different presets for more than a month and offering interface and language advice that has been ignored as they said other testers liked the increased bass presets.

Tap once and hold actually means tap + long tap for example. Below are my suggestions for tronsmart with a few alternative UI elements for the button setting interface that clarifies the interactions, the suggestion is really mostly to fix the language and add dots and long ovals like morse code for visual reification, not to overhaul the ui. The UI of the touch button settings is actually quite ok. Again, *these are just UI mockups by me, not them. This was my suggestion for straightforward EQ settings rather than 90s boombox presets with unknown effects.*

Other suggestions were:
Allow disabling Ambient for quicker switching between ANC/non anc
Allow disabling spoken audio prompts and replacing them with shorter tones
Setting parameters for ANC


----------



## chinmie

@Tronsmart Official is the android app for the apollo not available yet? the one on the playstore seems still only for the spunky beats


----------



## webvan

Does the new firmware fix the "bass booming" when ANC is turned on ? That was really THE problem of the Apollos.


----------



## AudioNoob

chinmie said:


> @Tronsmart Official is the android app for the apollo not available yet? the one on the playstore seems still only for the spunky beats


https://www.tronsmart.com/blog/85_how-to-update-the-firmware-of-your-apollo-bold.html


----------



## AudioNoob

webvan said:


> Does the new firmware fix the "bass booming" when ANC is turned on ? That was really THE problem of the Apollos.


No, see my post above, it only allows you to increase the bass. I don't know what new default the above reviewer is talking about since the default is the default as it was before, including the bass boost on the ANC.


----------



## webvan

My question wasn't related to the EQ settings but rather to the bug whereby bass becomes intolerably loud/boomy when ANC (and Ambient to a lesser degree) is turned on. It's odd they haven't tried to fix that problem...but then Tronsmart never replied to my repeated specific questions so maybe they can't hear it and therefore won't fix it !


----------



## chinmie

AudioNoob said:


> https://www.tronsmart.com/blog/85_how-to-update-the-firmware-of-your-apollo-bold.html



thanks! as a matter of fact i already installed it from link on the tronsmart questionnaire thread   



webvan said:


> My question wasn't related to the EQ settings but rather to the bug whereby bass becomes intolerably loud/boomy when ANC (and Ambient to a lesser degree) is turned on. It's odd they haven't tried to fix that problem...but then Tronsmart never replied to my repeated specific questions so maybe they can't hear it and therefore won't fix it !



for my ears, the default EQ is about the same with this firmware compared to before the update. almost no change at all for my ears

the problem of bass jump on the ANC and ambient mode compared to off mode also still there.

for now the only improvement for me is the ability to customize buttons and availability of the preset EQ, which for myself only the Jazz (and maybe the classical) can work for me in ANC/ambient mode on. the other preset are still just too much on the bass for my taste. 

also anyone hear a weird freq peak on the default preset? it's very apparent to me each time i switch from the other preset


----------



## jwong (Sep 30, 2020)

So, what's my best option currently for a wireless IEM with ANC good enough for in-plane usage that's available now via Amazon Prime?

I notice the T1XS is available for $60, but judging from reports I'm not sure the noise cancelling does too well. The new Bose won't be out in time (trip is next week). Suggestions for good flying buds?

Maybe the Edifier NB2? Even though it's $100 on Amazon vs $80 on AliE.


----------



## webvan

If you're in the US (or the UK) I would recommend the Amazon Echo Buds, very decent SQ and best in class overall isolation  thanks to the stellar passive isolation and "Bose ANR". Actually they isolate just as well as my QC25 cans. Earbuds like the Apple Airpods Pro have more impressive ANC but that's because they don't isolate passively very much at all and overall they can't compete. The Echo Buds are a well kept secret, due to limited distribution but also it seems because people hate the "old school" microUSB plug, something I have a bit of a hard to understand TBH...sure USB C is more convenient but it's really not the end of the world to have a microUSB cable handy !


----------



## Laethageal

webvan said:


> If you're in the US (or the UK) I would recommend the Amazon Echo Buds, very decent SQ and best in class overall isolation  thanks to the stellar passive isolation and "Bose ANR". Actually they isolate just as well as my QC25 cans. Earbuds like the Apple Airpods Pro have more impressive ANC but that's because they don't isolate passively very much at all and overall they can't compete. The Echo Buds are a well kept secret, due to limited distribution but also it seems because people hate the "old school" microUSB plug, something I have a bit of a hard to understand TBH...sure USB C is more convenient but it's really not the end of the world to have a microUSB cable handy !



Begone you peasant! Don't you dare speak of some illiterates things like micro usb!


----------



## dwells (Sep 30, 2020)

jwong said:


> So, what's my best option currently for a wireless IEM with ANC good enough for in-plane usage that's available now via Amazon Prime?
> 
> I notice the T1XS is available for $60,


Oh man, thank you for the heads up. Somehow these haven’t been showing up for me and I’ve been searching regularly and only gotten results for the third party seller that has them for $90 and not shipping for weeks.

Just ordered them in white, super excited!


----------



## jwong

dwells said:


> Oh man, thank you for the heads up. Somehow these haven’t been showing up for me and I’ve been searching regularly and only gotten results for the third party seller that has them for $90 and not shipping for weeks.
> 
> Just ordered them in white, super excited!



The NB2 that you were asking about a couple days ago is also available on Amazon, but at $99.99 which is $20 more than ordering them from China. Prime shipping though.


----------



## jant71 (Sep 30, 2020)

Speaking of the NB2. Just saw these that look amazingly similar ... https://www.myearfun.com/headphones/earfun-air-pro-anc-true-wireless-earbuds-black
Only $64.00 with the code.




Two more weeks till they drop though.


----------



## LupusWolf

My question is if there are any TWS earbuds that has the shape of something like the WF-1000XM3 where there is a large base/body outside of the ear as well as have aptx-LL so it's actually capable of gaming. The only thing putting me off TWS IEMS/earbuds is the lack of aptx LL. Sony's would be perfect if there was because I was planning on getting them with a modmic wireless attached to the bigger body/base.


----------



## RobinFood (Sep 30, 2020)

LupusWolf said:


> My question is if there are any TWS earbuds that has the shape of something like the WF-1000XM3 where there is a large base/body outside of the ear as well as have aptx-LL so it's actually capable of gaming. The only thing putting me off TWS IEMS/earbuds is the lack of aptx LL. Sony's would be perfect if there was because I was planning on getting them with a modmic wireless attached to the bigger body/base.



I use the Sonys to game all the time. There might be lag but I find it virtually unnoticeable.

Interestingly enough after getting the Sonys (and the right tips for them...) I stopped looking for other earphones and earbuds and almost never visit here anymore. I think they are my end game.


----------



## dj24 (Sep 30, 2020)

regancipher said:


> The best earbuds I have found for call quality are the Edifier TWS NB2. They are really in a league of their own - you have to make a trade off (form factor is definitely designed with calls in mind) and they only support SBC (although they have played around with the bitpool settings so it is ultra low latency) but they are my go-to for wfh.
> 
> The Tronsmart Apollo Bold are different. They eliminate background noise indoors well, but a little too well as you can sound a little muffled yourself at times. This is to be honest to be expected since your mouth is further from the microphone than stem-based earbuds, but it's fine indoors as long as you take this into consideration.
> 
> ...



I have been trying out the new Tranya M10 since I received it  2 days ago and have been very impressed to say the least.  They have somehow figured out how to make non stem buds with good call quality and with 4 mics in the latest version, the call quality is close to flawless.  If I have to nitpick, the only negative thing I've noticed is people's loud voices in the background/ tv can be heard somewhat by the other party on the line.  Even then it's really suppressed so isn't an issue at all and I believe this is the case for all other TWS earphones if I'm not mistaken.  I work on the phones all day and my Jabber VOIP calls have never sounded this good both ways easily beating out the Airpods pro and the Jabra 75T.  They lasted well over 9 hours and were still going before they went back in the charger earlier today.

I know this is subjective but I have found they fit my ears to a T due to their design and I'm getting excellent passive noise cancellation because of this.  Sound quality wise in the bass boost mode- the mids and highs are much clearer and well tamed compared to the previous T10 and reminiscent of the original B530.  Bass is punchy and well defined.  Normal mode is closer to neutral overall and sounds great with some of my jazz tracks and audiobooks.  Switching between the two is instant and I like the fact that they have physical buttons located on the top so they're very easy to get to without pushing the buds in.

I will be taking them out for a run this weekend but this is where I've always had issues with Tranya's IP ratings in the past.  I'm one of those poor souls who sweats furiously and those sweats for some reason run straight down my ears like a faucet pouring on them.  My previous T10 with a higher IP rating didn't survive past the 8 month mark but to be honest that's not been the only set that I've lost because of sweat damage (is this issue just me?)....so we'll see.  Even with this possibility I feel like they're an absolute steal for $60 when I first ordered them 2 weeks ago on Tranya's website.

Edit:  I have an extra one time use only coupon that expires after tomorrow if anyone wants to try them out.  Use SPINZVKVOYIO for 40% off to bring them down to the above price.  YMMV.


----------



## jmwant

*Kinera Seeks Your Advice*

Kinera has always been lauded for their iems designs and implementation of the hand painter process in their high-end/mid-range products.They are in the development process of their latest TWS, which will also be hand-painted. Aesthetics aside, they are asking for your advice on what features could be added to this TWS. Better battery life, multi drivers, noise cancellation; it can be anything. Drop your comments below to let them know what features do you expect in a TWS. Also, they're giving away 2 pairs of the hand painted TWS. Head over to Kinera's official website to Participate.


----------



## jant71 (Sep 30, 2020)

dj24 said:


> I have been trying out the new Tranya M10 since I received it  2 days ago and have been very impressed to say the least.  They have somehow figured out how to make non stem buds with good call quality and with 4 mics in the latest version, the call quality is close to flawless.  If I have to nitpick, the only negative thing I've noticed is people's loud voices in the background/ tv can be heard somewhat by the other party on the line.  Even then it's really suppressed so isn't an issue at all and I believe this is the case for all other TWS earphones if I'm not mistaken.  I work on the phones all day and my Jabber VOIP calls have never sounded this good both ways easily beating out the Airpods pro and the Jabra 75T.  They lasted well over 9 hours and were still going before they went back in the charger earlier today.
> 
> I know this is subjective but I have found they fit my ears to a T due to their design and I'm getting excellent passive noise cancellation because of this.  Sound quality wise in the bass boost mode- the mids and highs are much clearer and well tamed compared to the previous T10 and reminiscent of the original B530.  Bass is punchy and well defined.  Normal mode is closer to neutral overall and sounds great with some of my jazz tracks and audiobooks.  Switching between the two is instant and I like the fact that they have physical buttons located on the top so they're very easy to get to without pushing the buds in.
> 
> I will be taking them out for a run this weekend but this is where I've always had issues with Tranya's IP ratings in the past.  I'm one of those poor souls who sweats furiously and those sweats for some reason run straight down my ears like a faucet pouring on them.  My previous T10 with a higher IP rating didn't survive past the 8 month mark but to be honest that's not been the only set that I've lost because of sweat damage (is this issue just me?)....so we'll see.  Even with this possibility I feel like they're an absolute steal for $60.



Nice impressions! Nice early bird price. They were like $89 and a 30% off code. Also had a fee of $3 so they were $71. I didn't checkout but $59.99 when they show up on Amazon. Guess they weren't buying them at the original Tranya website price so they lowered it.


----------



## LupusWolf

RobinFood said:


> I use the Sonys to game all the time. There might be lag but I find it virtually unnoticeable.
> 
> Interestingly enough after getting the Sonys (and the right tips for them...) I stopped looking for other earphones and earbuds and almost never visit here anymore. I think they are my end game.


Ooh, thats interesting. Do you use it on Sony's LDAC bluetooth codec format? What about movies? Any issues with lip syncing in those? I just find it weird why Sony wouldn't add those codecs because it means much more compatibility with other devices. Also, how's the grip on those (like any movement from running/moving) because the modmic wireless is about 30g and I'm wondering how well it would hold up on it.


----------



## dj24

jant71 said:


> Nice impressions! Nice early bird price. They were $90 with the code. Also had a fee of $3 so they were $71. I didn't checkout but $59.99 when they show up on Amazon. Guess they weren't buying them at the original Tranya website price so they lowered it.



Funny but I ended up getting that discount from Tranya's website where they have a submit your e-mail and spin to win roulette game on their home page. I've always been a sucker for those games and I'm SHOCKED I didn't win the 100% OFF


----------



## FYLegend

jant71 said:


> Speaking of the NB2. Just saw these that look amazingly similar ... https://www.myearfun.com/headphones/earfun-air-pro-anc-true-wireless-earbuds-black
> Only $64.00 with the code.
> 
> Two more weeks till they drop though.


Inb4 Gamesky says "These have a dah-namic sound and control everything but the volume"... Pass

The touch controls don't even mention next and previous track, hmm

With low-budget touch sensors, I agree triple and quadruple taps can lead to responsiveness issues (*coughcough Aufo M1 Taotronics 94* but I'd rather have a complete set of features done well.


----------



## Laethageal

dj24 said:


> I have been trying out the new Tranya M10 since I received it  2 days ago and have been very impressed to say the least.  They have somehow figured out how to make non stem buds with good call quality and with 4 mics in the latest version, the call quality is close to flawless.  If I have to nitpick, the only negative thing I've noticed is people's loud voices in the background/ tv can be heard somewhat by the other party on the line.  Even then it's really suppressed so isn't an issue at all and I believe this is the case for all other TWS earphones if I'm not mistaken.  I work on the phones all day and my Jabber VOIP calls have never sounded this good both ways easily beating out the Airpods pro and the Jabra 75T.  They lasted well over 9 hours and were still going before they went back in the charger earlier today.
> 
> I know this is subjective but I have found they fit my ears to a T due to their design and I'm getting excellent passive noise cancellation because of this.  Sound quality wise in the bass boost mode- the mids and highs are much clearer and well tamed compared to the previous T10 and reminiscent of the original B530.  Bass is punchy and well defined.  Normal mode is closer to neutral overall and sounds great with some of my jazz tracks and audiobooks.  Switching between the two is instant and I like the fact that they have physical buttons located on the top so they're very easy to get to without pushing the buds in.
> 
> ...


Sounds like a 1 time account for paid shil


----------



## dj24

Laethageal said:


> Sounds like a 1 time account for paid shil



Long time lurker and just joined the forum.  I used a few disposable e-mails to try to win that 100% OFF as mentioned in the previous post on Tranya's site but was unsuccessful. Hence the reason I shared that extra coupon.  For you I'll try to balance my posts with reviews of my other sets which I love as much with all their pros and cons (Spoiler: Nothing revelatory other than what's been said ad nauseum so far )


----------



## jant71

FYLegend said:


> Inb4 Gamesky says "These have a dah-namic sound and control everything but the volume"... Pass
> 
> The touch controls don't even mention next and previous track, hmm
> 
> With low-budget touch sensors, I agree triple and quadruple taps can lead to responsiveness issues (*coughcough Aufo M1 Taotronics 94* but I'd rather have a complete set of features done well.



Yeah but for those who do want them better to pay $64 than $100 or $80 with slow Ali shipping.


----------



## voicemaster

jant71 said:


> Yeah but for those who do want them better to pay $64 than $100 or $80 with slow Ali shipping.


Just got my orders from Ali and it took 12 days instead of 1+ month like before. I am actually quite surprise. I am in California, USA btw.


----------



## Laethageal

jmwant said:


> *Kinera Seeks Your Advice*
> 
> Kinera has always been lauded for their iems designs and implementation of the hand painter process in their high-end/mid-range products.They are in the development process of their latest TWS, which will also be hand-painted. Aesthetics aside, they are asking for your advice on what features could be added to this TWS. Better battery life, multi drivers, noise cancellation; it can be anything. Drop your comments below to let them know what features do you expect in a TWS. Also, they're giving away 2 pairs of the hand painted TWS. Head over to Kinera's official website to Participate.


Ambiant mode
6+ hours on IEM + 10-20hr from case
Top audiophile sound, coming from whatever means they want. Multi driver? If it can help them get a clean, spacious, detailed sound, sure!
If there was 1 TWS with high end audio like custom iem AND ambiant mode, I'd jump on it.


----------



## Laethageal

voicemaster said:


> Just got my orders from Ali and it took 12 days instead of 1+ month like before. I am actually quite surprise. I am in California, USA btw.


Still waiting on my TWSNB2 from ali. They haven't registered in custom yet. It has been 22 days already.


----------



## Laethageal (Sep 30, 2020)

dj24 said:


> Long time lurker and just joined the forum.  I used a few disposable e-mails to try to win that 100% OFF as mentioned in the previous post on Tranya's site but was unsuccessful. Hence the reason I shared that extra coupon.  For you I'll try to balance my posts with reviews of my other sets which I love as much with all their pros and cons (Spoiler: Nothing revelatory other than what's been said ad nauseum so far )


Meant no offense, it was simply suspicious for someone (who wrote like someone who have knowledge about IEM as either a regular poster or long time lurker) to join simply to write about 1 very specific TWS, giving a discount code for it and not even saying where they are coming from.
Saw shills in altcoin so many time, I'd call my reaction a side effect from previous experiences


----------



## FYLegend

voicemaster said:


> Just got my orders from Ali and it took 12 days instead of 1+ month like before. I am actually quite surprise. I am in California, USA btw.


In Canada I find ePacket and UBI take about 10 days but it seems ePacket is less frequently used nowadays. UBI is sometimes listed separately but it could also be under "Standard Shipping". For me the biggest waste of time is the order processing and dispatching. Some dispatch it within 1-2 days but others slack until the last few hours of the 5-day window. Last year I purchased something around this Chinese holiday period and they were still active in getting it shipped, whereas in Canada nothing's shipped on weekends or holidays (except during December they do weekends). It might just be the headquarters of Geekbuying, but I found it odd my Tronsmart package had an address in Ontario even though my tracking number implied a direct flight to Vancouver - took 3 weeks total.


----------



## jsmiller58

webvan said:


> If you're in the US (or the UK) I would recommend the Amazon Echo Buds, very decent SQ and best in class overall isolation  thanks to the stellar passive isolation and "Bose ANR". Actually they isolate just as well as my QC25 cans. Earbuds like the Apple Airpods Pro have more impressive ANC but that's because they don't isolate passively very much at all and overall they can't compete. The Echo Buds are a well kept secret, due to limited distribution but also it seems because people hate the "old school" microUSB plug, something I have a bit of a hard to understand TBH...sure USB C is more convenient but it's really not the end of the world to have a microUSB cable handy !


AptX?


----------



## dj24 (Oct 1, 2020)

Laethageal said:


> Meant no offense, it was simply suspicious for someone (who wrote like someone who have knowledge about IEM as either a regular poster or long time lurker) to join simply to write about 1 very specific TWS, giving a discount code for it and not even saying where they are coming from.
> Saw shills in altcoin so many time, I'd call my reaction a side effect from previous experiences



No offense taken as in hindsight I should have introduced myself as a newbie as well.  Just an FYI:  Even though they're not that popular here, the original Bomaker Sifis are my SQ all time favorite TWS so far although I've gone through 4 of them due to water/ sweat damage. Atrocious call quality and a dubious IP rating aside..


----------



## eiraku (Oct 1, 2020)

Laethageal said:


> Still waiting on my TWSNB2 from ali. They haven't registered in custom yet. It has been 22 days already.



Stuff like this makes me slightly happier than Shopee does direct China sales where I am. Especially after having my T1XS delivered to me (well, to my _other_ house anyway, still gotta wait for tomorrow to actually be able to test 'em) in 5 days direct from China.

Edifier has a local presence so NB2 2-3 days tops. Unfortunately the lack of a useful (read: EQ included) App (and AptX, however much I know codecs are just... codecs) is somewhat dampening my enthusiasm on these over the Bold (which also has local distros), especially if Tron delivers and ACTUALLY ends up giving us AptXHD.

(Even when with the T1XSes I actually turned a blind eye to the whole no-AptX thing just to see how good they can still be without)

The "loose earbuds in case" thing with the Bolds are a tad concerning tho. Anybody else with Bolds having that issue or have they fixed it in later batches?

Other TWSes I'm keeping an eye out for us the Tao SL96, which nobody is stocking yet over here unfortunately.


----------



## dwells

jant71 said:


> Speaking of the NB2. Just saw these that look amazingly similar ... https://www.myearfun.com/headphones/earfun-air-pro-anc-true-wireless-earbuds-black
> Only $64.00 with the code.
> 
> Two more weeks till they drop though.


Interesting, those do appear to indeed be exactly the Edifier TWS NB2. Has Earfun ever done a rebrand like that before? I was under the impression their products were their own thing, or at least were in unique housings.

That said, if they’re just a rebrand of the Edifiers, they’re still a steal at $64 for great reviewed earbuds except from a company with a US presence (so actual support and warranties). Too bad they’re not available sooner and on Amazon, I would love to try them and see how they compare to the Fiil T1 XS I have on the way. I know ill be really happy with the Fiil sound quality, but I’m definitely sacrificing ANC and call quality.


----------



## eiraku

dwells said:


> Interesting, those do appear to indeed be exactly the Edifier TWS NB2. Has Earfun ever done a rebrand like that before? I was under the impression their products were their own thing, or at least were in unique housings.
> 
> That said, if they’re just a rebrand of the Edifiers, they’re still a steal at $64 for great reviewed earbuds except from a company with a US presence (so actual support and warranties). Too bad they’re not available sooner and on Amazon, I would love to try them and see how they compare to the Fiil T1 XS I have on the way. I know ill be really happy with the Fiil sound quality, but I’m definitely sacrificing ANC and call quality.



Well even the Bolds have "OEM rebrands" out there so it's pretty hard to say 🤣

If Edifier had a solid working app with plenty of features than it might be worth it to stick to the "original" but hmm...


----------



## vegetaleb

Hello
I am searching for the best TWS under 50$
For trance, psychedelic trance, metal mainly
So yes I like wide soundstage and good vocals, not a bass head nor too high treble
Also I will use them in jogging and skiing, so they should have a good fit
I am using snapdragon Android so aptx compatible
I saw scarbir mentioning Mpow M30 and Fiil T1x, unfortunately T1x is not sold in France.
So please share your recommendations


----------



## Rayners

Rayners said:


> Hello all, i have finally decided to jump on the TWS ship, and i am looking for recommandations. Here's my criteria :
> 
> Mandatory :
> - Should be available on Amazon Europe (i have a 25€ voucher haha)
> ...



I have decided to go with the Soundpeats Truengine 3SE, thank you everyone


----------



## chinmie

this is a cool idea, integrating a TWS on a laptop


Spoiler












https://mspoweruser.com/lenovo-thinkbook-laptop-lineup-2020/amp/


----------



## logiatype

chinmie said:


> this is a cool idea, integrating a TWS on a laptop
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> ...


I’d much rather they fix that crap Bluetooth stack...


----------



## vegetaleb

vegetaleb said:


> Hello
> I am searching for the best TWS under 50$
> For trance, psychedelic trance, metal mainly
> So yes I like wide soundstage and good vocals, not a bass head nor too high treble
> ...



And what about the Edifier X3?
Is it better for electronic music?
Do they stay put in your ears when doing sports?


----------



## bedlamite

25% off when you spend $250 or more at the Master & Dynamic site with code: PICKMEUP

Time to grab the MW07+


----------



## AudioNoob

Should get


dwells said:


> Interesting, those do appear to indeed be exactly the Edifier TWS NB2. Has Earfun ever done a rebrand like that before? I was under the impression their products were their own thing, or at least were in unique housings.
> 
> That said, if they’re just a rebrand of the Edifiers, they’re still a steal at $64 for great reviewed earbuds except from a company with a US presence (so actual support and warranties). Too bad they’re not available sooner and on Amazon, I would love to try them and see how they compare to the Fiil T1 XS I have on the way. I know ill be really happy with the Fiil sound quality, but I’m definitely sacrificing ANC and call quality.


I'll reach out to Earfun and let you all know, I had communicated with them quite a bit about their previous products. I think between the support, packaging and manuals they make pretty good buds for the average end user.


----------



## cheesesteak

Anyone saw the new UE fits TWS. It will have tips that will fit to the contour of our ears.


----------



## Laethageal

chinmie said:


> this is a cool idea, integrating a TWS on a laptop
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> ...


I'd rather pay for laptop performance than them losing space and money to include cheap TWS that I won't be using anyway, which will only leading to decreased performance and specs.


----------



## logiatype

cheesesteak said:


> Anyone saw the new UE fits TWS. It will have tips that will fit to the contour of our ears.


https://custom.ultimateears.com/products/ue-fits?variant=32895095210041

Doesn't seem very compelling. I don't see how those tips are different from regular silicone tips.


----------



## webvan

bedlamite said:


> 25% off when you spend $250 or more at the Master & Dynamic site with code: PICKMEUP
> 
> Time to grab the MW07+


Bring back the 40% code then I'll bite


----------



## AudioNoob

logiatype said:


> https://custom.ultimateears.com/products/ue-fits?variant=32895095210041
> 
> Doesn't seem very compelling. I don't see how those tips are different from regular silicone tips.


They have nothing to do with silicone tips, did you even look? It's a uv-cured polymer that is set to your ear-shape on the first use through UV leds like those used to cure lacquer at the nail salon


----------



## Aevum (Oct 1, 2020)

the question is how long do they last and how much are replacements.

Also 250 bucks on TWS, they better sound amazing.

Any word on tunning, APT-X and LDAC support, dynamic/BA ?


----------



## NWISE

webvan said:


> Bring back the 40% code then I'll bite



Been waiting for this too. I regret canceling the order the last time. I have the MTW1 currently and would certainly go for  MW07+ if the 40% comes back.

Any other recommendations to move on from MTW1?


----------



## Toom

NWISE said:


> Been waiting for this too. I regret canceling the order the last time. I have the MTW1 currently and would certainly go for  MW07+ if the 40% comes back.
> 
> Any other recommendations to move on from MTW1?



MTW2


----------



## LoryWiv

Rayners said:


> I have decided to go with the Soundpeats Truengine 3SE, thank you everyone


Please let us know your impressions. I am interested in this TWS as well, although may wait till their new H1 is available for comparison. 

Thanks, @Rayners!


----------



## dweaver (Oct 1, 2020)

OK, I have a chance to buy a pair of Audio Technica ATH-CKRS7TW which has some short comings in features making it less popular considering its original retail price was so high.

But if I can get a pair for $100 Canadian, what do people think. Are they worth it sonically at that price point? My high end MTW have died from battery issues.

I am torn because I would like to get the Technics new true wireless but even on sale those are $280 so I am thinking this AT set will have some serious audio chops at a bargain basement price...

Comments are appreciated .


----------



## hifi80sman

Finally was able to get my hands on them.  So far, really liking the fit, sound, and ANC.  Overall, probably the best ANC TWS I've tried so far.

That being said, the LED on the left earbud is slightly brighter than the right.  Gah!  Good ANC, bad OCD.


----------



## erockg (Oct 1, 2020)

hifi80sman said:


> Finally was able to get my hands on them.  So far, really liking the fit, sound, and ANC.  Overall, probably the best ANC TWS I've tried so far.
> 
> That being said, the LED on the left earbud is slightly brighter than the right.  Gah!  Good ANC, bad OCD.


Congrats!  Mine arrive Saturday.  Fingers crossed!  My latest obsession is still those new Klipsch T5 II.  Both the McClaren and regular.  LOVE THEM.  Trying to decide which version to keep.  Hope the Bose take over first place.


----------



## jmwant

Laethageal said:


> Ambiant mode
> 6+ hours on IEM + 10-20hr from case
> Top audiophile sound, coming from whatever means they want. Multi driver? If it can help them get a clean, spacious, detailed sound, sure!
> If there was 1 TWS with high end audio like custom iem AND ambiant mode, I'd jump on it.
> [/QUOTE



Thanks for the feedback! Here's the pic of the TWS


----------



## Laethageal (Oct 1, 2020)

jmwant said:


> Thanks for the feedback! Here's the pic of the TWS


Neat looking. You're announcing me I won the contest and that's the pair I'll get to review and play with?


----------



## chinmie

jmwant said:


> Thanks for the feedback! Here's the pic of the TWS



based on the picture, I'm guessing it would be using small and short nozzles? is the nozzle oval or round?


----------



## dweaver

Had to make a decision on the ATH-CRS7TW so decided to give them a try. Features wise they sure are bare minimum so get why they did not sell well. But audio wise they are definitely Audio Technicas, definitely on the bright side and a bit bass shy. Very audiophile-ish. So for anyone else looking for a neutral type signature and ar willing to forego modern TW features these are not bad as all.

Now I have to see if I can get used to the signature... might be a good option for occasional detailed listening...


----------



## AudioNoob

I'll do a retake on the jabra 75t later this week if anybody is curious about the anc and sound.


----------



## howdy

AudioNoob said:


> I'll do a retake on the jabra 75t later this week if anybody is curious about the anc and sound.


The update comes out in a month unless you're one of the lucky ones to try it before it comes out.


----------



## Spidermanxd

https://custom.ultimateears.com/pag...jb20iLCAia2xfY29tcGFueV9pZCI6ICJIc2tRNVYifQ==


----------



## Rob E.

Yamaha TWS 
Specs


----------



## Laethageal

Spidermanxd said:


> https://custom.ultimateears.com/pages/ue-fits?utm_campaign=UE FITS Phase 2 Email 1 (CSX list) Non Openers (RcVvhs)&utm_medium=email&utm_source=Klaviyo&_ke=eyJrbF9lbWFpbCI6ICJidm5nMzU0MEB5YWhvby5jb20iLCAia2xfY29tcGFueV9pZCI6ICJIc2tRNVYifQ==


Interesting.
Wondering if it's sound signature will be anything like their custom IEM. At 200$, I doubt it, but it's worth a try!


----------



## webvan (Oct 2, 2020)

No news about my order from Bose FR so far...

Some first unboxings/reviews are appearing : 

Take aways :
- pi$s poor controls
- bulky box
- good ANC
- tight sealing apparently (so unlike the QC-20 strangely or APPs or Bold) with the FLIPSIDE being "walker's thump" or even "breather's thump" in this case !


----------



## webvan

Detailed Mic quality comparisons and the Bose are...just ok


----------



## vegetaleb

On a budget, which is best for sports and listening to electronic music like Trance?
-Soundpeats Truedot
-Edifier X3
-Mpow M30


----------



## Caipirina

Not sure if this really fits into this thread: Bose Sleepbuds
Who else has them? 
I have 'unearthed' mine again after a pretty long time, somehow I had expected more from them in the noises department. I actually find way more good relaxing / masking stuff in an iOS app called aptly "Noise"
Anyhoo, surprise surprise, I am just seeing in my app updates that they update the Bose SleepApp to accommodate a new MK2 of the sleepbuds! Coming out in a few days. From the promo video it looks like pretty much the same thing .. maybe a bit longer battery life ... 

Discuss


----------



## Caipirina

chinmie said:


> this is a cool idea, integrating a TWS on a laptop
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> ...


This is actually really far from being a 'cool' idea  

This is space hogging nonsense


----------



## Caipirina

webvan said:


> Some first unboxings/reviews are appearing :



i miss Jim and his review room ...


----------



## eiraku (Oct 2, 2020)

Caipirina said:


> This is actually really far from being a 'cool' idea
> 
> This is space hogging nonsense



I actually agree 🤣

That space is prolly a lot better utilised for something like twin memory card slots of something (should be REALLY useful for photogs/videogs, niche as it is).

On another note, I'm back to my other home, so yeah, time to unbox that T1XS.






Ignore that tiny shipment bump on the bottom.

First impressions? Box is tiny, the T1XS case is even TINIER. Like the L2P case absolutely dwarfs it side by side. The choice of materials for the case is a tad suspect tho, as the smooth glossy finish makes it feel... cheap (nothing the liberal application of carbon fiber sticker won't help however).






Now charging it for a bit before testing. Time for some random A-Bing.


----------



## chinmie

Caipirina said:


> This is actually really far from being a 'cool' idea
> 
> This is space hogging nonsense



i said it was a cool idea, not saying it's done right   

i imagined maybe in the future they would utilize laptop speakers to be detachable and be turned into some sort of TWS units when needed, who knows. at least that "CD tray TWS idea" they had is a step somewhere


----------



## clerkpalmer

The Bose started showing up at best buys around me yesterday. I am going to pick up tomorrow. Anyone else get them? 

Also got an email for a new Grado tws set today. Looks interesting but 250 is steep.


----------



## erockg

Caipirina said:


> Not sure if this really fits into this thread: Bose Sleepbuds
> Who else has them?
> I have 'unearthed' mine again after a pretty long time, somehow I had expected more from them in the noises department. I actually find way more good relaxing / masking stuff in an iOS app called aptly "Noise"
> Anyhoo, surprise surprise, I am just seeing in my app updates that they update the Bose SleepApp to accommodate a new MK2 of the sleepbuds! Coming out in a few days. From the promo video it looks like pretty much the same thing .. maybe a bit longer battery life ...
> ...


I had the first gen.  They were a godsend with my toddler waking me up at night.  I had a lot of battery issues and after 4 replacements, I wound up just selling the last replacement.  That said, I pre-ordered the 2nd gen.  Supposedly, they fixed the issues.  If so, I'm beyond excited.


----------



## chinmie

now this one's definitely a cool idea 

https://www.theverge.com/2020/10/1/...RJHEO2a3u4j-PsObNPLHtAZGp14xAIe6SxXANiLznP9Js


----------



## logiatype (Oct 2, 2020)

chinmie said:


> now this one's definitely a cool idea
> 
> https://www.theverge.com/2020/10/1/...RJHEO2a3u4j-PsObNPLHtAZGp14xAIe6SxXANiLznP9Js



Their website isn't too clear on this being permanent... This is much more compelling. If they have an EQ app, will likely be getting this.

The make you choose a size when you order. I wonder how their guarantee works

Edit: Apparently has a 4-band equaliser...


----------



## hifi80sman

clerkpalmer said:


> The Bose started showing up at best buys around me yesterday. I am going to pick up tomorrow. Anyone else get them?
> 
> Also got an email for a new Grado tws set today. Looks interesting but 250 is steep.


Yep, picked them up yesterday at Best Buy.  I like them.  Pretty much excellent ANC, probably the best in a TWS that I've experienced, while the sound is engaging and spacious for a TWS.  That being said, it really sucks there is no track rewind (you can skip tracks) or volume control.  Also, because I'm OCD, the LED on the left ear bud is a little brighter and slight shade off from the right earbud.  I'm not sure if that's the way all of them are, but it bothers me so much I might return the Black color I got for the Soapstone!

The Grado TWS look kind of like an off-the-shelf re-brand.


----------



## clerkpalmer

hifi80sman said:


> Yep, picked them up yesterday at Best Buy.  I like them.  Pretty much excellent ANC, probably the best in a TWS that I've experienced, while the sound is engaging and spacious for a TWS.  That being said, it really sucks there is no track rewind (you can skip tracks) or volume control.  Also, because I'm OCD, the LED on the left ear bud is a little brighter and slight shade off from the right earbud.  I'm not sure if that's the way all of them are, but it bothers me so much I might return the Black color I got for the Soapstone!
> 
> The Grado TWS look kind of like an off-the-shelf re-brand.


Thanks man. Do you feel the bose is worth the money? I'm in the mood for a fun sounding tws and anc is nice for my indoor workouts with fans all around me. Agree on grado, I started to click through until I saw they look like 20 dollar chifi stuff. They certainly may have poured the money into the sound and Grado has a strong reputation but I'm gonna pass until someone says they sound like an angel.


----------



## webvan

@hifi80sman  There are some conflicting reports on YT about isolation, some claim passive isolation is superb but that as result you hear yourself breathing and all your steps when walking (the walker's thump after the runner's thump ?!) and others claims there is very little passive isolation to speak of...which would make sense since that's how the QC20 work...and for TWEs the APPs. 

That latter approach works great in planes where you only really need to cancel the low droning sounds but in the subway or in the street this is a poor solution due to all the "odd noises" that ANC algorithms cannot counteract efficiently. That's why I'm so pleased with the Amazon Echo Buds that have stellar passive isolation that's "boosted" by the ANR to offer the best overall isolation solution I've experienced with MTW2 just a bit below that as well as the XM3s (provided you ram them deep in your ear to get a good seal that won't break and that's a bit painful !)


----------



## hifi80sman (Oct 2, 2020)

clerkpalmer said:


> Thanks man. Do you feel the bose is worth the money? I'm in the mood for a fun sounding tws and anc is nice for my indoor workouts with fans all around me. Agree on grado, I started to click through until I saw they look like 20 dollar chifi stuff. They certainly may have poured the money into the sound and Grado has a strong reputation but I'm gonna pass until someone says they sound like an angel.


I like the sound.  In comparison to the APP, bass is deeper with more visceral impact, mids/vocals shine through a bit more, and the highs are rolled off a bit to give you enough detail, but without the slight raspy quality the APP can have on some tracks.  Overall, the sound is smooth and spacious and quite enjoyable to listen to for hours.  Fit is secure and I have no issues when active.  The APP can begin to slip a little when I workout.

If you can live with the limited controls (for now, hopefully they will update), they are worth the price premium over the APP when it comes to sound and secure fit.


----------



## clerkpalmer

hifi80sman said:


> If you can live with the limited controls (for now, hopefully they will update), they are worth the price premium over the APP when it comes to sound and secure fit.


Thanks. Since I have the APP and the Galaxy Live already I need these like a hole in my head.


----------



## hifi80sman

clerkpalmer said:


> Thanks. Since I have the APP and the Galaxy Live already I need these like a hole in my head.


FYI, the case is also on the bulky side.


----------



## logiatype

hifi80sman said:


> I like the sound.  In comparison to the APP, bass is deeper with more visceral impact, mids/vocals shine through a bit more, and the highs are rolled off a bit to give you enough detail, but without the slight raspy quality the APP can have on some tracks.  Overall, the sound is smooth and spacious and quite enjoyable to listen to for hours.  Fit is secure and I have no issues when active.  The APP can begin to slip a little when I workout.
> 
> If you can live with the limited controls (for now, hopefully they will update), they are worth the price premium over the APP when it comes to sound and secure fit.


How's the app? EQ?


----------



## eiraku (Oct 2, 2020)

A bit of info on the Fiil T1 Pro (with ANC) that I stumbled upon while tweaking away the T1XS on the Fiil+ app (in case it hasn't been shared already).



Spoiler











Mind the sheety Google Lens translation 🤣

ANC + Wireless Charging? Sounds like an interesting "upgrade" to the T1X (and XS), and if I can find a pair at a good price (say below USD80) I might consider getting them.

As for my T1XS, the monitor mode is pretty useful, and latency in "Game" mode is _surprisingly_ even better than my L2P on AptX.

But I'm probably spoiled by the imaging and spaciousness of the L2P for music (and also that sparkle + thump of the BA+DD), as I legitimately prefer it over the T1XS, at least for the bulk of the music I hear (Trance, EDM).

Not that the T1XS is bad or anything, like I'm actually pretty *surprised* at how competent it is for a single driver, non-Qualcomm (and thus AptX-less) TWS (at literally more than 1/2 the price).

For one, it blows my (slightly pricier even after the recent COVID discount) Creative Outlier Air clear out of the water, even with the AptX and True Wireless Plus support on the COA.

So yeah, it's a keeper still, especially for my mobile gaming (the lower latency is nice), and for more "general" use (especially for playlist that mesh badly with the sparkly-thumpy L2P).

Also the Fiil+ "Custom EQ" drops volume levels when used (for some reason, it doesn't happen with the presets), so it's pretty much useless for sound tweaking (prolly better to use Viper or Wavelet). Finally, while the case is TINY, it also feels rather flimsy IMHO.


----------



## clerkpalmer

hifi80sman said:


> FYI, the case is also on the bulky side.


Indeed. Doesn't bother me. I'm home 99.9 percent of the time anyway.


----------



## dj24 (Oct 2, 2020)

eiraku said:


> A bit of info on the Fiil T1X Pro (with ANC) that I stumbled upon while tweaking away the T1XS on the Fiil+ app (in case it hasn't been shared already).
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Bart just reviewed them and he puts them up there with some of the best ones.

https://www.scarbir.com/tws/fiil-t1-pro-review

Edit:  Wait, What?  Fiil T1X Pro?  I'm assuming you mean the *Fiil T1 Pro.*


----------



## eiraku (Oct 3, 2020)

dj24 said:


> Bart just reviewed them and he puts them up there with some of the best ones.
> 
> https://www.scarbir.com/tws/fiil-t1-pro-review



Just saw, but ANC is supposedly pretty bad so I feel like keeping clear. The price it's listed at is pretty interesting tho, as is always with Fiil stuff.

And sorry, T1 Pro. I must have mistyped or something (corrected).


----------



## webvan

Just got notification that my Bose QCE shipped ! Can't wait to get them and find out if they do or do not have passive isolation.


----------



## Luke Skywalker

jwong said:


> So, what's my best option currently for a wireless IEM with ANC good enough for in-plane usage that's available now via Amazon Prime?
> 
> I notice the T1XS is available for $60, but judging from reports I'm not sure the noise cancelling does too well. The new Bose won't be out in time (trip is next week). Suggestions for good flying buds?
> 
> Maybe the Edifier NB2? Even though it's $100 on Amazon vs $80 on AliE.


Hey dude, my Bose TWS just arrived and I have to say, they sound pretty amazing.  I'm not an audiophile but they crush my N6P's.  Not up there with my Lola's or Audeze cans thought (haha)  noise canceling is amazing. 

I don't have any of the other high end TWS though like the Sennheiser's.  As soon as I can get my hands on the N10's I'll be able to compare side by side.


----------



## Luke Skywalker

webvan said:


> Just got notification that my Bose QCE shipped ! Can't wait to get them and find out if they do or do not have passive isolation.


Yep, mine just arrived by UPS today.  I do wish they had volume control but I'll be really interested to hear what other people think of them.  Really good separation and super clear.  Female vocals sound especially amazing


----------



## logiatype

Luke Skywalker said:


> Hey dude, my Bose TWS just arrived and I have to say, they sound pretty amazing.  I'm not an audiophile but they crush my N6P's.  Not up there with my Lola's or Audeze cans thought (haha)  noise canceling is amazing.
> 
> I don't have any of the other high end TWS though like the Sennheiser's.  As soon as I can get my hands on the N10's I'll be able to compare side by side.


What about them crushes the N6P?


----------



## hifi80sman

Luke Skywalker said:


> Yep, mine just arrived by UPS today.  I do wish they had volume control but I'll be really interested to hear what other people think of them.  Really good separation and super clear.  Female vocals sound especially amazing


Yep, one of the first things I noticed was vocals are amazing, while all instruments have their place.

Also, the Soapstone color is almost exactly the color as the Sony XM4.  I ended up going for the Soapstone.  Looks a little more "elegant" than the Black IMHO.  I also asked around the store (Best Buy) on different people's opinions (male and female).  Everyone thought they looked "clean".  Obviously, I was bored.


----------



## dwells

Just got my FIIL T1 XS in today and have been playing with them over the past hour or so. They're what I was hoping for - similar sound to the T1 X before them, but with a slimmer case. These seem to have noticeably more bass than I remember the T1 X having, but definition is still great for the mids and highs. Percussion is clear and sharp, but appropriately so without the sibilance I'm apparently very sensitive to. 

I'm actually a big fan of the glossy plastic on these, at least the white model that I got. They feel pretty solid, and it's a nice finish on the gloss white; it feels like a premium product. I'd say they're comparable to Apple's offerings as far as the look and feel of the plastic goes. The case is still larger than I'd like (the AirPod case form factor is really my ideal), but it's livable this time around. Still a noticeable pocket bulge in skinny jeans, but it's not actually uncomfortable like the previous case was.

Speaking of comfort - out of the box these wound up having the same issue I've had with TWD buds with stems in that they bend my tragus forward and are uncomfortable after a half hour or so. Replacing the winged rubber trim with the included wingless version seems to have resolved it, I think the issue was that in order to get the wings in place, the earbuds had to be angle such that they were pushing on my tragus. I moved up one size on the eartips and they seem to be holding in place just fine. Honestly I think I could still run with them and not have them fall out, but we'll see. I think I'll bring the winged surrounds with me when traveling just to be safe and switch to them when going for runs.

Side note: transparency mode seems like it'll be pretty useful on these, actually. My main use case will be when popping into convenience stores and stuff when city walking and being able to still converse with a cashier without having to take the earbuds out should be convenient. I do wish it was only a one second press and hold instead of a full two seconds, but it's not a huge deal. You definitely still have to pause your music though if it's at even a medium volume, as it doesn't amplify your surroundings or voices that much. Instead, what it does is just about perfectly balances out the amount of volume decrease from the passive isolation of well-sealed earbuds.

Really happy with these and you can't argue with $60. I am, of course, having FOMO anyway after seeing the Scarbir review of the T1 Pro. The earbuds themselves being smaller is especially appealing. I'll just have to snag a pair from a retail store a few month down the road when I'm in Singapore or Hong Kong or something.


----------



## Luke Skywalker

logiatype said:


> What about them crushes the N6P?


Again, I'm not too knowledgable about this stuff, but I will qualify that statement by saying that I LOVE my N6P's.  I have the Sony XM3's and I don't think they even compare to the N6P other than the ANC.  I've been searching for something with ANC and that sounds good and right now, the Bose hit my sweet spot. 

Can't wait to try the N10 with ANC. Maybe they'll be superior to the Bose


----------



## dweaver

Well the ATH-CKRS7TW lasted 1 day. Left side started having a sizzling sound in the music like a blown speaker.

So returned them and noticed the WF-XB700 on sale so grabbed a pair.

Have to say once I tamed down the bass a smidge these sound pretty sweet. I like the mids a treble. I can live without ANC. 

Just wanted something new to tickle my fancy and these just slid into my gift card price range. Have to say they are better than the AT pair. But I am more a Sony fan so that doesn't surprise me.


----------



## Caipirina

Luke Skywalker said:


> Yep, mine just arrived by UPS today.  I do wish they had volume control but I'll be really interested to hear what other people think of them.  Really good separation and super clear.  Female vocals sound especially amazing


Very curious to hear about your first run / thud test

I have a distant chance now that someone coming from the UK can bring the buds mid November, but they will have to stay with him in his 4 week quarantine ... 

Still enough time to figure out if I 'need' them


----------



## Caipirina

clerkpalmer said:


> Thanks. Since I have the APP and the Galaxy Live already I need these like a hole in my head.



My thoughts exactly ... I am still surprisingly happy with the Gbeans ...  now, if the Bose had multipoint like the QC 35 .. now THAT would be a reason to get them


----------



## hifi80sman

dweaver said:


> Well the ATH-CKRS7TW lasted 1 day. Left side started having a sizzling sound in the music like a blown speaker.
> 
> So returned them and noticed the WF-XB700 on sale so grabbed a pair.
> 
> ...


For $78, they’re definitely a fun pair.  Have you tried the WF-SP800N?  On sale now as well, sound legitimately good, and can be EQd via Sony app.


----------



## hifi80sman

Anyone try the Bose Sport Earbuds?  How’s the passive isolation?  The marketing piece indicates it seals better.


----------



## webvan

Better than ? The QC buds ? We still don't have any feedback here on how they seal, apparently they don't ? Same as the QC20 ?


----------



## marcusd

We have a review of the dyplay ANC Shield Pro  - TWS active noise canceling for under $100   

https://headfonics.com/dyplay-anc-shield-pro-review/


----------



## webvan

No comments about how effective the passive and active isolation are ?


----------



## marcusd

webvan said:


> No comments about how effective the passive and active isolation are ?



I check what Louis said, as follows:

"The Dyplay ANC Shield Pro noise reduction is very subtle so if you frequent a very noisy area then you will probably need a better ANC system. "

I suspect you could post something mroe detailed in terms of what you need on the post and he will reply in more detail.

Thanks


----------



## dweaver

hifi80sman said:


> For $78, they’re definitely a fun pair.  Have you tried the WF-SP800N?  On sale now as well, sound legitimately good, and can be EQd via Sony app.


The 800N was on sale as well but was still $229CAD so I went with the XB700 which was more in my budget.

If had the money I would love to have bought the Technics EAHAZ70WK. 

I use Neutron on my phone which has a good EQ which helps offset the lack of app support.


----------



## vladzakhar

Some thoughts about new Bose CQ earbuds after one day of heavy usage:
I like it a lot
+
Superb sound quality.
Best resolution and instrument separation I heard in TWS so far.
Not for bass heads, but just enough bass for everybody else.
Huge soundstage.
Best ANC I experienced in TWS so far. Better when APP and Sony. I went outside for a walk and didn't hear the cars passing by at all when the music was playing.
6 hours on single charge. Didn't test it properly yet, but I think with 100% ANC on its less. (5 hours maybe)
Very comfortable fit. Not moving at all. Was wearing them for 6 hours straight without any discomfort.
BT connection is rock solid. My phone was on the second floor and I was still connected in the basement.
I like the touch controls. Just what I need: play, pause, skip the track, auto pause when taking out of the ear. Don't care about volume control much.

-
Huge case (Bose could make it smaller)
Earbuds look big and weird in ears. Not big deal for me, don't care about what other people think.
And of course PRICE. But if you like your music to sound great and without outside noise when they cost less when MTW 2 and IMHO Bose sounds better.


----------



## regancipher

Got my FIIL T1 Pro today.

First thoughts:

ANC is nowhere near as bad as Scarbir's review. I think they may be in ANC off mode by default.

I managed to find this apk - https://online-manage.oss-cn-beijing.aliyuncs.com/fileupload/docs/20200929/20200929094943_839.apk

This is not the global FIIL app, it seems like it is a Chinese beta or something. The FIIL app is at version 4 - this says it's 3.4 but whilst version 4 doesn't recognise the T1 Pro, version 3.4 does. Unfortunately, everything is in Chinese so I have no idea what I'm doing with it, but I found options for ANC off, ANC on and ambient. It is clear the ANC is doing something, it's probably not as good as the Edifier TWS NB2 and way out of the Apollo Bold's league, but it is pretty good for distant sound. For stuff like keyboard taps...forget it!

These earbuds are small. Much thinner than than the T1XS, but the tips are longer. The drawback is they don't seem to fit as snuggly. The benefit is my foam inairs fit on them beautifully and now the buds are much more comfortable than the T1XS which at times made you feel like you were on a submarine.

The sound quality....oh my god! These are SENSATIONAL!!!! Mostly I sit there nodding my head doing my tests. Nah....dancing around the living room to She's On The Phone by St Etienne, bass on Wiz Khalifa is crystal clear and intense...even Douglas Hubbard reading The Failures of Risk Management is putting a smile on my face!!


----------



## jant71

hifi80sman said:


> Anyone try the Bose Sport Earbuds?  How’s the passive isolation?  The marketing piece indicates it seals better.



IIRC, not out till the 15th. Don't see how they are sports buds if they seal even better. Then you get footfall/bone conduction. You lose situational awareness. Maybe call them "Gym" buds but not sports like outside running shooting or whacking a ball around or biking.


----------



## hifi80sman

webvan said:


> Better than ? The QC buds ? We still don't have any feedback here on how they seal, apparently they don't ? Same as the QC20 ?


Hard to say.  I know they use the same Stay Hear Max Tips, however, there's no way to turn off the ANC, meaning it's level 10 to 0, which gradually just opens the external mics.  I guess I could run out the batteries and then try, but I might just buy the Black Sport version instead.  I do need a new gym TWS...


----------



## dwells

regancipher said:


> The sound quality....oh my god! These are SENSATIONAL!!!! Mostly I sit there nodding my head doing my tests. Nah....dancing around the living room to She's On The Phone by St Etienne, bass on Wiz Khalifa is crystal clear and intense...even Douglas Hubbard reading The Failures of Risk Management is putting a smile on my face!!



You’re killing me, man! Here I was happy with my T1 XS, and now I’m back to being jealous again...


----------



## webvan

@hifi80sman - Ah yes, it makes it hard to compare and more importantly that's a bit of a bummer not being able to turn off ANC as the mics are likely to pick up wind noise when it's windy or when riding a bike.

@jant71 - good point about "sports" earbuds vs "gym" earbuds. For running if you can't stand "thumping" (I can't) you'll need the earbud style like the X12/Apple Earpods/Airpods. Most people don't like them because they don't isolate so don't work for the gym. That's where isolating earbuds like the Bomaker SiFi II come in. But what if you run on a treadmill in a gym ?


----------



## dasadab (Oct 3, 2020)

vladzakhar said:


> Some thoughts about new Bose CQ earbuds after one day of heavy usage:
> I like it a lot
> +
> Superb sound quality.
> ...



How would you compare them to the Nuarl N6 Pros ?  I have those and would be interested in your opinion.  Thanks!


----------



## vladzakhar

The resolution and instrument separation on Bose are better when Nuarls imho. They just sound cleaner.


----------



## dasadab

vladzakhar said:


> The resolution and instrument separation on Bose are better when Nuarls imho. They just sound cleaner.


Thanks. The Nuarls are my current favorite sound wise.


----------



## jant71

People should also state the implementation. Bose vs. Nuarl SBC or aptX or what? If with solid aptX implementation the Nuarl jumps up again then one might say, What? I thought the Bose sounded better. Fine if the Bose outright sound better but have to make sure there are no caveats in effect.


----------



## vladzakhar

You're right. Maybe with aptX Nuarl will sound better. I don't know. I can only test it with AAC on my Iphone. And on AAC the Bose sounds better to my ears.


----------



## regancipher

dwells said:


> You’re killing me, man! Here I was happy with my T1 XS, and now I’m back to being jealous again...


I like both of them. In fact, I love both of them. Gonna try and use the t1 Pro in bed tonight so I don't have to listen to Sam and Billy Faiers mummy diaries...they are doing OK so far


----------



## hifi80sman

Well, I went ahead and did it.  The Bose Sport are semi-open, similar to the originals, which is what I was expecting.  They are lighter and are VERY comfortable.  Sound is very similar, however, there is a greater sense of space due to the semi-open nature.  They were obviously designed to maintain some awareness, which is a scenario I can use them for.  My wife tends to feel the need to talk to me when I'm listening to music, so these will work for those cases.


----------



## AudioNoob

hifi80sman said:


> Well, I went ahead and did it.  The Bose Sport are semi-open, similar to the originals, which is what I was expecting.  They are lighter and are VERY comfortable.  Sound is very similar, however, there is a greater sense of space due to the semi-open nature.  They were obviously designed to maintain some awareness, which is a scenario I can use them for.  My wife tends to feel the need to talk to me when I'm listening to music, so these will work for those cases.


At this point I feel like we should intervene and share some addiction resources..


----------



## voicemaster

chinmie said:


> wow, this arrived rather quick!
> ordered it on 28th last month (and shipped on 31st), and today it has arrived.
> time to do some testing


I saw you bought the bt20s pro earhooks. I also just got mine, I bought the .75mm-S 2pin and it fit my ZAX connector. 

As you can see, it is more secure with the S model than the regular. I have ordered another pair for the matte black pair.


----------



## assassin10000

voicemaster said:


> I saw you bought the bt20s pro earhooks. I also just got mine, I bought the .75mm-S 2pin and it fit my ZAX connector.
> 
> As you can see, it is more secure with the S model than the regular. I have ordered another pair for the matte black pair.



Does the male end of the ear hooks fit the female end of the .75 2-pin S? 

Wondering if the BT20S connector side is a standard QDC type 2-pin, which would mean making custom ear hooks easier.


----------



## voicemaster

assassin10000 said:


> Does the male end of the ear hooks fit the female end of the .75 2-pin S?
> 
> Wondering if the BT20S connector side is a standard QDC type 2-pin, which would mean making custom ear hooks easier.


You mean like this?


----------



## assassin10000

voicemaster said:


> You mean like this?



Almost. Does the shrouded 'S' version fit over the oval?

Basically does the top fit over the bottom in this pic?


----------



## hifi80sman

AudioNoob said:


> At this point I feel like we should intervene and share some addiction resources..


Interestingly, while working (home office at this point), I need to maintain some awareness (deliveries, wife, kids, etc.), so I'll go with the Sport.  At the gym or traveling (when that opens up legitimately again), the QC is my choice.  Not a big fan of always on ambient mode, as it adds noise to the audio driver directly.  Certainly, ambient when I need it on is great to have, but I prefer natural openness if I need constant active awareness.


----------



## voicemaster

assassin10000 said:


> Almost. Does the shrouded 'S' version fit over the oval?
> 
> Basically does the top fit over the bottom in this pic?


It will fit the transparent part, but not the white part.


----------



## AudioNoob

hifi80sman said:


> Interestingly, while working (home office at this point), I need to maintain some awareness (deliveries, wife, kids, etc.), so I'll go with the Sport.  At the gym or traveling (when that opens up legitimately again), the QC is my choice.  Not a big fan of always on ambient mode, as it adds noise to the audio driver directly.  Certainly, ambient when I need it on is great to have, but I prefer natural openness if I need constant active awareness.


Yeah I've been looking forward to some earphones lighter on the stethoscope effect as well.


----------



## FYLegend (Oct 4, 2020)

What's this thing about TWS microphones and direct sunlight? Similar to the Jabees Firefly Pro, the TaoTronics 94 cuts the mic feed when exposed to direct sunlight, and I can feel a thump in my ears when it does this (not sure if it's physical or not). Galaxy Buds+ doesn't do this but users have reported it shutting down in direct sunlight.


----------



## Isloo

voicemaster said:


> I saw you bought the bt20s pro earhooks. I also just got mine, I bought the .75mm-S 2pin and it fit my ZAX connector.
> 
> As you can see, it is more secure with the S model than the regular. I have ordered another pair for the matte black pair.


 
What’s the sound like with the BT20s Pro? I have a couple of the BT20s and thinking about getting the Pro, if there is any sound improvement. Are there any benefits sound wise? Thanks.


----------



## smith

hifi80sman said:


> Well, I went ahead and did it.  The Bose Sport are semi-open, similar to the originals, which is what I was expecting.  They are lighter and are VERY comfortable.  Sound is very similar, however, there is a greater sense of space due to the semi-open nature.  They were obviously designed to maintain some awareness, which is a scenario I can use them for.  My wife tends to feel the need to talk to me when I'm listening to music, so these will work for those cases.


How do they match up sound wise?


----------



## hifi80sman

smith said:


> How do they match up sound wise?


Very close.  The QC sound a bit fuller with a little more impactful bass.  The Sport sound slightly more spacious with the sound a little more outside the headspace.  They both sound great.  Keepers and at the top of my TWS list.


----------



## webvan

So the Sport would be semi open like the QC20 and the QC closed ? Or is it just hard to tell because for the QC because of always on ANC/Ambient ?


----------



## AudioNoob

Are there tips that reduce the stethoscope effect of hearing your own footsteps and every bone in your skull and jaw?


----------



## BigZ12

AudioNoob said:


> Are there tips that reduce the stethoscope effect of hearing your own footsteps and every bone in your skull and jaw?


Foam tips are great for that purpose. My Lypertek Tevis are almost perfect with the Comply Foam.


----------



## voicemaster

Isloo said:


> What’s the sound like with the BT20s Pro? I have a couple of the BT20s and thinking about getting the Pro, if there is any sound improvement. Are there any benefits sound wise? Thanks.


Sound wise, the pro has higher output with less floor noise (less hiss). The pro is a "true" tws than the bt20s. You don't have to press the button on each to turn it on/off, the case makes charging easy, they improve the connection between the modules (with the bt20s, sometimes they won't sync with each other especially if you have been using only one side and decided to use the other one later), in the bt20s there are two bluetooth name (trn bt20s L and R) wherr with the pro there is only one name (trn bt20s pro), the earhook is changeable so you don't have to risk you IEM connector if you like to change IEM.


----------



## AudioNoob

BigZ12 said:


> Foam tips are great for that purpose. My Lypertek Tevis are almost perfect with the Comply Foam.


Somebody like sedna should make a foam decoupled silicone tip where the outside is very thin silicone and the inside foam but where the bore is not connected to the outer silicone, it would remain cleaner and work like foam still


----------



## jsmiller58

AudioNoob said:


> Somebody like sedna should make a foam decoupled silicone tip where the outside is very thin silicone and the inside foam but where the bore is not connected to the outer silicone, it would remain cleaner and work like foam still


Not exactly the same, but sounds something like the Symbio eartips...


----------



## logiatype

AudioNoob said:


> Somebody like sedna should make a foam decoupled silicone tip where the outside is very thin silicone and the inside foam but where the bore is not connected to the outer silicone, it would remain cleaner and work like foam still



Like these? https://symbioeartips.com/


----------



## jant71

hifi80sman said:


> Very close.  The QC sound a bit fuller with a little more impactful bass.  The Sport sound slightly more spacious with the sound a little more outside the headspace.  They both sound great.  Keepers and at the top of my TWS list.



Can you explain how the Sport controls work and how well. Volume change work smooth, any track control like rewind left out?


----------



## hifi80sman

jant71 said:


> Can you explain how the Sport controls work and how well. Volume change work smooth, any track control like rewind left out?


No volume control.  Track skip on the Sport is double tap left vs. press and hold for the QC.  There is no track rewind.  Play/Pause/Answer Call is double tap on right side.  Assistant is press and hold on right side.


----------



## jant71

hifi80sman said:


> No volume control.  Track skip on the Sport is double tap left vs. press and hold for the QC.  There is no track rewind.  Play/Pause/Answer Call is double tap on right side.  Assistant is press and hold on right side.



So if I am at the courts early and have my clip player clipped on the fence and am either tracking a ball I whacked to the other side of the court or I am running full court on the basketball court and I am 50 plus feet away and my next podcast isn't loud enough or I want to crank up the music I have to wait till I go back to my player. Can't rewind if that track hits the spot and I want to "play it one more time". This is 2020 where is the convenience?  Can't spend $$$ and lose usability.


----------



## hifi80sman

jant71 said:


> So if I am at the courts early and have my clip player clipped on the fence and am either tracking a ball I whacked to the other side of the court or I am running full court on the basketball court and I am 50 plus feet away and my next podcast isn't loud enough or I want to crank up the music I have to wait till I go back to my player. Can't rewind if that track hits the spot and I want to "play it one more time". This is 2020 where is the convenience?  Can't spend $$$ and lose usability.


Completely understand.  I enjoy them quite a bit, so I'll live with those issues.  Their forums indicate they're "exploring" adding the functionality, but no official news yet.


----------



## erockg

Got my Bose QC's.  Very wide soundstage.  Clear, seemingly accurate sound.  Bases is typical from Bose.  Not for bass-heads.  But definitely for my metal.  ANC comparable or better than the APP depending on seal.  Big buds, big case.  Wireless charging.  Auto pause when removed.  No volume control unless you use Siri or the like.  Guessing they'll update that feature.  They should.  Fit is very good.  Not heavy like the first Gen.  Tap controls work flawlessly for me.  Calls work fine.


----------



## AudioNoob

logiatype said:


> Like these? https://symbioeartips.com/


No, symbios are still thick enough to conduct sound, and the bore is not decoupled which makes them stiffer and adds to the carrying of sound. I was imagining just a half dome of thin silicone on top


----------



## newtophones07

erockg said:


> Got my Bose QC's.  Very wide soundstage.  Clear, seemingly accurate sound.  Bases is typical from Bose.  Not for bass-heads.  But definitely for my metal.  ANC comparable or better than the APP depending on seal.  Big buds, big case.  Wireless charging.  Auto pause when removed.  No volume control unless you use Siri or the like.  Guessing they'll update that feature.  They should.  Fit is very good.  Not heavy like the first Gen.  Tap controls work flawlessly for me.  Calls work fine.



Have your tried the Klipsch T5 II?  I want to pick up a set of either of these two. Thanks for the impressions.


----------



## hifi80sman

erockg said:


> Got my Bose QC's.  Very wide soundstage.  Clear, seemingly accurate sound.  Bases is typical from Bose.  Not for bass-heads.  But definitely for my metal.  ANC comparable or better than the APP depending on seal.  Big buds, big case.  Wireless charging.  Auto pause when removed.  No volume control unless you use Siri or the like.  Guessing they'll update that feature.  They should.  Fit is very good.  Not heavy like the first Gen.  Tap controls work flawlessly for me.  Calls work fine.


Out of curiosity, is the LED on the left earbud a little brighter than the right?


----------



## erockg

newtophones07 said:


> Have your tried the Klipsch T5 II?  I want to pick up a set of either of these two. Thanks for the impressions.


I have both models.  I think I posted impressions in a different post here.  I can't stop using them.  I love them.  SO much I bought the zippo case version too.


----------



## newtophones07

erockg said:


> I have both models.  I think I posted impressions in a different post here.  I can't stop using them.  I love them.  SO much I bought the zippo case version too.



So you find the bose to be the better overall set?


----------



## erockg

hifi80sman said:


> Out of curiosity, is the LED on the left earbud a little brighter than the right?


Not that I can see.  I did notice that the left loses charge faster, so maybe it's the master vs the slave.  Unsure.


----------



## erockg

newtophones07 said:


> So you find the bose to be the better overall set?


Pros and cons for both.  Klipsch have volume control and one tap transparency mode.  Bose has no volume controls (yet) and you have to scroll through taps for "favorites" regarding the transparency mode.  Klipsch go in your ear, Bose sit on your ears and do not go in deep.  Klipsch are much smaller, Bose are bigger.  Bose has ANC, Klipsch has passive isolation.  Both have really great sound.  The Klipsch cases are much nicer.  The zippo version is very solid.  The McClaren version is solid, waterproof and has wireless charging.  Both have apps.  The Klipsch can be EQ'd within the app, the Bose cannot.  I haven't done major outdoors walking to test for dropouts on any of these.  Both earbuds are second gen - it's clear the manufacturers learned a lot from their first gen mistakes.  So, again, it's really hard to say.  It's personal preference.  If you don't want to shell out $279 for the Bose, go with the zippo Klipsch and I don't think you'd be disappointed.  But you can't really go wrong with either IMO.


----------



## Luke Skywalker

clerkpalmer said:


> I love mine for the sound as well.  Regard fit, I am using spin fits and they work well.  The rest of the package is pretty meh but they do more right than wrong and overall sq is superb.  Changing topics, I was perusing Best Buy's website last night waiting for my Bose to ship and noticed a dozen or more reviews on them.  I preordered pretty quickly.  Anyone know how/how there are reviews already?  Has anyone received them yet?  Bose was supposed to ship tomorrow and BB is showing 10/8.  Are these like freebees?  If so, where do I sign up?


hey hey hey!  I got the Bose friday... a few thoughts... 

 I love the locking case. I’m clumsy and I was constantly dropping my NUARL And jabra cases and crawling on the floor looking for them 

the noise can is awesome - on par with or better than the Sony and the sound is an order of magnitude better.  But I haven’t tried the Senn’s or other high end ANC TWS’s

Loving the sound. If you want super loud buds that can burst your eardrums, these don’t get quite that loud.  I find myself turning the volume up to like 80% on classical. but more than loud enough for white zombie and Metallica at the gym today

fit is excellent with the large tips. Haven’t popped out once while chewing, working out. i‘ll let you know how they do running tomorrow 

hopefully that’s helping info!  I’m not an audio expert but I’m definitely digging these things


----------



## jant71

erockg said:


> Pros and cons for both.  Klipsch have volume control and one tap transparency mode.  Bose has no volume controls (yet) and you have to scroll through taps for "favorites" regarding the transparency mode.  Klipsch go in your ear, Bose sit on your ears and do not go in deep.  Klipsch are much smaller, Bose are bigger.  Bose has ANC, Klipsch has passive isolation.  Both have really great sound.  The Klipsch cases are much nicer.  The zippo version is very solid.  The McClaren version is solid, waterproof and has wireless charging.  Both have apps.  The Klipsch can be EQ'd within the app, the Bose cannot.  I haven't done major outdoors walking to test for dropouts on any of these.  Both earbuds are second gen - it's clear the manufacturers learned a lot from their first gen mistakes.  So, again, it's really hard to say.  It's personal preference.  If you don't want to shell out $279 for the Bose, go with the zippo Klipsch and I don't think you'd be disappointed.  But you can't really go wrong with either IMO.



Klipsch does have the ANC model as well. Supposed to be $299.


----------



## Luke Skywalker

jant71 said:


> Klipsch does have the ANC model as well. Supposed to be $299.


Really? wow which model?  Big fan of Klipsch and only reason I didn’t get them is I thought they didn’t have ANC


----------



## erockg

jant71 said:


> Klipsch does have the ANC model as well. Supposed to be $299.


When are they being released?  I saw them for a month now on B&H, but no release date yet.  Unless that's changed?


----------



## Luke Skywalker

Totally off topic but man I love head fi.  Wish i‘d joined years ago!


----------



## jant71

erockg said:


> When are they being released?  I saw them for a month now on B&H, but no release date yet.  Unless that's changed?



Those and the II Sport in the colors. I put in to be notified about the green Sport but only get every two week updates that they aren't out. I moved on and got a Cleer and will get the new Aviot in November. Only slightly more than the Klipsch for both and fill two needs/situations. Worked out in the end. Sometimes you have to wait and other stuff shows up, you rethink, and change your mind.


----------



## jsmiller58

jant71 said:


> Those and the II Sport in the colors. I put in to be notified about the green Sport but only get every two week updates that they aren't out. I moved on and got a Cleer and will get the new Aviot in November. Only slightly more than the Klipsch for both and fill two needs/situations. Worked out in the end. Sometimes you have to wait and other stuff shows up, you rethink, and change your mind.


Time will always reveal new and better choices!


----------



## Caipirina

hifi80sman said:


> My wife tends to feel the need to talk to me when I'm listening to music, so these will work for those cases.



what is it with ppl talking when one clearly has buds in ears???
😂🤣😅


----------



## CasioPSX

hey guys, so I was thinking of buying some tws iems but then I found out they sell the little TWS adapters for iems, which would be perfect for me tbh. I just wanted to ask, which one is regarded as the "best" one right now? each one I look at has negative reviews in one aspect or another... one has bad connectivity issues, another audible hiss, a different one interference problems... are they really no decent ones? also is there one that you can change the connector from 2-pin to MMCX? I have a few MMCX iems and about an equal amount of 2 pin iems, and I feel like with the MMCX to 2 pin adapters I have they might make it a little too long to be comfortable around my ear but idk if that would be the case. hopefully someone who has a pair could shed some light on my situation


----------



## baskingshark

CasioPSX said:


> hey guys, so I was thinking of buying some tws iems but then I found out they sell the little TWS adapters for iems, which would be perfect for me tbh. I just wanted to ask, which one is regarded as the "best" one right now? each one I look at has negative reviews in one aspect or another... one has bad connectivity issues, another audible hiss, a different one interference problems... are they really no decent ones? also is there one that you can change the connector from 2-pin to MMCX? I have a few MMCX iems and about an equal amount of 2 pin iems, and I feel like with the MMCX to 2 pin adapters I have they might make it a little too long to be comfortable around my ear but idk if that would be the case. hopefully someone who has a pair could shed some light on my situation



Those I've tried are the TRN BT20, TRN BT20S and iBasso CF01, from cheapest to most expensive.

iBasso CF01 for me is the best in terms of sound quality, but it is the most expensive. It has a charging case that supports wireless charging, though it has a slight hiss with highly sensitive IEMs. No volume controller and only comes in MMCX connectors (I bought a 2 dollar MMCX and 2 pin adapter from Aliexpress and it works like a charm with 2 pin IEMs). It is waterproof too and has a dedicated amp for headroom. Quite transparent and well built and comfortable. Very good connectivity, haven't had a dropout in the last 2 - 3 months since I got them.

The TRN BT20 and BT20S are much cheaper, no charging cases. They come in 2 pin or MMCX variants, the latter has better BT codecs, waterproofing, better battery life. The BT20S however hisses like a snake with sensitive IEMs. They get a bit uncomfortable with longer usages when the memory hook presses against the ear.

TRN just released a BT20S Pro which has a charging case and has options to use MMCX and 2 pin modules (sold separately for about 8 bucks) so u can use 2 pin and MMCX IEMs with it. Haven't tried it but looks very good from reviews.

One thing to note is I read a lot of QC problems for the TRN BT20S Pro in the forums, like one side dying etc. Myself, my TRN BT20 and BT20S died after a few months of use, so QC is a thing to be careful of for TRN stuff. Maybe buy them from somewhere with a good returns policy/CS like Amazon in case a lemon comes.


----------



## clerkpalmer

Keeping on the Bose train, I think they are the best "consumer" ANC model available to date. The total package is solid. ANC is the best I've heard. It just sucks the ambient noise right away. Sq is typical Bose which is to say solid and fun sounding without being over the top. You either love or hate Bose sound and I'm in the former. Fit is great for me and it reminds me how much I hate true iems. I'd still give the sq edge to MTW, AKG, M&D but the Bose is a step ahead of APP and Sony. Best way to describe them is solid. Keepers as hifi80man would say. I do wish Bose would up the ante on sq one of these days but I guess if it ain't broke don't fix it.


----------



## CasioPSX

baskingshark said:


> Those I've tried are the TRN BT20, TRN BT20S and iBasso CF01, from cheapest to most expensive.
> 
> iBasso CF01 for me is the best in terms of sound quality, but it is the most expensive. It has a charging case that supports wireless charging, though it has a slight hiss with highly sensitive IEMs. No volume controller and only comes in MMCX connectors (I bought a 2 dollar MMCX and 2 pin adapter from Aliexpress and it works like a charm with 2 pin IEMs). It is waterproof too and has a dedicated amp for headroom. Quite transparent and well built and comfortable. Very good connectivity, haven't had a dropout in the last 2 - 3 months since I got them.
> 
> ...



thanks for the quick reply, and damn I was looking at those trn pros and they look exactly like what I want, shame about the QC issues. as far as I've seen they're only on sale on their site and aliex. looks like the ibasso would be the best choice right now then, thanks!


----------



## voicemaster

CasioPSX said:


> thanks for the quick reply, and damn I was looking at those trn pros and they look exactly like what I want, shame about the QC issues. as far as I've seen they're only on sale on their site and aliex. looks like the ibasso would be the best choice right now then, thanks!


I have 6 trn bt20 models (2x pro, 3x 20s, 2x 20). None of them broken yet. The only thing broken is the 1st gen which is known for its micro usb connector being jammed inside. It is later fixed in the 20s version. Very satisfied with them all, but the pro version takes it to another level imho. I got 7-8 hours of battery life on a single charge.


----------



## assassin10000

voicemaster said:


> I have 6 trn bt20 models (2x pro, 3x 20s, 2x 20). None of them broken yet. The only thing broken is the 1st gen which is known for its micro usb connector being jammed inside. It is later fixed in the 20s version. Very satisfied with them all, but the pro version takes it to another level imho. I got 7-8 hours of battery life on a single charge.



Dunno if this works on the pro version but I get extended play time when I power my BT20S off at around 4-4.5 hours and back on. This switches which side acts as the master and I go from 7-8 hours of battery life to 9-10 hours.


----------



## chinmie

baskingshark said:


> One thing to note is I read a lot of QC problems for the TRN BT20S Pro in the forums, like one side dying etc. Myself, my TRN BT20 and BT20S died after a few months of use, so QC is a thing to be careful of for TRN stuff. Maybe buy them from somewhere with a good returns policy/CS like Amazon in case a lemon comes.





CasioPSX said:


> thanks for the quick reply, and damn I was looking at those trn pros and they look exactly like what I want, shame about the QC issues. as far as I've seen they're only on sale on their site and aliex. looks like the ibasso would be the best choice right now then, thanks!



knock on wood, i have 1 BT20, 2 BT20S, and 1 BT20S Pro, and none of them has broken down on me


----------



## chinmie

assassin10000 said:


> Dunno if this works on the pro version but I get extended play time when I power my BT20S off at around 4-4.5 hours and back on. This switches which side acts as the master and I go from 7-8 hours of battery life to 9-10 hours.



are you using TWS+ enabled phones with your BT20S ? i use older phones that don't support it, and usually it will register the unit (or any qualcomm TWS+ unit) two times. i just rename them by adding L and R (you can tell which one by listening to the beep/prompt when connected), and just switch them from the phone' bluetooth list, so no need to turn them off and on again

on the BT20S Pro on the other hand, it would only register 1 name


----------



## baskingshark (Oct 4, 2020)

chinmie said:


> knock on wood, i have 1 BT20, 2 BT20S, and 1 BT20S Pro, and none of them has broken down on me



TRN BT20S Pro has a few bad QC reports in the TRN thread:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/trn-impressions-thread.881761/page-158#post-15862452
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/trn-impressions-thread.881761/page-161#post-15887230
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/trn-impressions-thread.881761/page-159#post-15864381
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/trn-impressions-thread.881761/page-160#post-15886872

A few other audiophiles I met in a local meet in my country also had no sound from one side of the TRN BT20S Pro.

I do hope nobody encounters them, but other than my BT20 and BT20S, I had QC issues with other TRN IEMs too eg TRN BA5 had some moisture condensation issue that causes intermittent cut out of sound, my TRN IM2 had no sound after a few months. TRN had a fake soldering of cables last time that @Slater found on dissecting their cables.

That's the only thing holding me back from getting a TRN BT20S Pro, it is really quite an affordable and good idea in terms of charging case and swappable module. I really hope nobody gets a lemon, but it might be safer to get the TRN BT20S Pro from somewhere with a robust returns policy as such. If buying it from Aliexpress, it is gonna be a hassle shipping the thing back if it is defective. Maybe the shipping costs will almost be the same as the device itself sometimes.


----------



## CasioPSX

chinmie said:


> knock on wood, i have 1 BT20, 2 BT20S, and 1 BT20S Pro, and none of them has broken down on me


what do you think of the pros? also where did you buy yours? all these people coming out and saying theirs is a-ok is definitely making me reconsider now lol. I'm between the ibasso and the TRN pro


----------



## jmwant

Laethageal said:


> Neat looking. You're announcing me I won the contest and that's the pair I'll get to review and play with?


Haha, participate in the Giveaway. And Best of luck.


----------



## assassin10000

chinmie said:


> are you using TWS+ enabled phones with your BT20S ? i use older phones that don't support it, and usually it will register the unit (or any qualcomm TWS+ unit) two times. i just rename them by adding L and R (you can tell which one by listening to the beep/prompt when connected), and just switch them from the phone' bluetooth list, so no need to turn them off and on again
> 
> on the BT20S Pro on the other hand, it would only register 1 name



Nope. Same as yours.

The SoC (snapdragon 845) hardware supports it but Google hasn't enabled it in the software (pixel 3 xl).

When you tap to switch masters, does the BT20S say disconnected and then connected in the opposite ear of when you turn them on?


----------



## chinmie

CasioPSX said:


> what do you think of the pros? also where did you buy yours? all these people coming out and saying theirs is a-ok is definitely making me reconsider now lol. I'm between the ibasso and the TRN pro



i quite like it, much improved compared to the older version in my opinion, especially on the ease of use (the case really makes a big difference for me), less noise, and also more versatility because of the detachable connectors. 

i opted of buying the Pros instead of the Ibasso, mainly because the Ibasso has less battery life, non detachable wire (and only have mmcx version), and also priced higher.


----------



## voicemaster

Can't


assassin10000 said:


> Nope. Same as yours.
> 
> The SoC (snapdragon 845) hardware supports it but Google hasn't enabled it in the software (pixel 3 xl).
> 
> When you tap to switch masters, does the BT20S say disconnected and then connected in the opposite ear of when you turn them on?


So I tried to do this test where I connect both sides to my s20plus. Whichever side that you take out first from the case, will become the "master". Lets say the right side is the master, then when I put the left side back into the case, it will make a 3x chimes, but no disconnect on the right side. If I put the right side (master), then the left side will disconnect for 2 sec and reconnect to my phone and become the "master".


----------



## chinmie

assassin10000 said:


> Nope. Same as yours.
> 
> The SoC (snapdragon 845) hardware supports it but Google hasn't enabled it in the software (pixel 3 xl).
> 
> When you tap to switch masters, does the BT20S say disconnected and then connected in the opposite ear of when you turn them on?



it will usually connect to the side that's last paired, so if the last time i paired the Left as master, then it will automatically pair to that one the next time i turn them on. 

also it usually decide which side to be the master depending on which one turned on first, so for instance if i turn on Right side first, then then Left, the Right will be the Master unit


----------



## chinmie

voicemaster said:


> Can't
> 
> So I tried to do this test where I connect both sides to my s20plus. Whichever side that you take out first from the case, will become the "master". Lets say the right side is the master, then when I put the left side back into the case, it will make a 3x chimes, but no disconnect on the right side. If I put the right side (master), then the left side will disconnect for 2 sec and reconnect to my phone and become the "master".



so it's the same with the BT20S Pro, in fact it's easier, we just have to switch them up which side we take out first


----------



## assassin10000

chinmie said:


> it will usually connect to the side that's last paired, so if the last time i paired the Left as master, then it will automatically pair to that one the next time i turn them on.
> 
> also it usually decide which side to be the master depending on which one turned on first, so for instance if i turn on Right side first, then then Left, the Right will be the Master unit



Hmmm. 

When I power both my BT20S off and then back on, whichever side has more battery becomes the master. Not whichever was last connected. 

I do them at the same time, doing them individually would give different results. As the first one powered on will connect as a master as it won't find the other side and will automatically pair.


----------



## voicemaster

assassin10000 said:


> Hmmm.
> 
> When I power both my BT20S off and then back on, whichever side has more battery becomes the master. Not whichever was last connected.
> 
> I do them at the same time, doing them individually would give different results. As the first one powered on will connect as a master as it won't find the other side and will automatically pair.


With the pro, since you don't have to press anything to turn it off and on. It will just set the master to whichever side you take it out (basically it turn on automatically) first. The next step up upgrade should be like samsung galaxy buds where you can just put either side back into the case and there is no disconnect and reconnect whichever side you put back.


----------



## chinmie

assassin10000 said:


> Hmmm.
> 
> When I power both my BT20S off and then back on, whichever side has more battery becomes the master. Not whichever was last connected.
> 
> I do them at the same time, doing them individually would give different results. As the first one powered on will connect as a master as it won't find the other side and will automatically pair.



i rarely powered them at the same time, usually i turned on the unit that i want as the master first, then the second one (with usually one second difference between turning on the first to second unit) 

i already sold all my BT20S, so i can't test your scenario anymore


----------



## jmwant

chinmie said:


> based on the picture, I'm guessing it would be using small and short nozzles? is the nozzle oval or round?


I know just as much as you about this. it looks short and oval shaped to me.


----------



## SilverEars (Oct 5, 2020)

vladzakhar said:


> Some thoughts about new Bose CQ earbuds after one day of heavy usage:
> I like it a lot
> +
> Superb sound quality.
> ...


Although I wouldn't say ANC is better than APP, I agree it's the best TWS I've heard so far.  The bass is pretty impressive for TWS, and sound stage definitely is quite large.  One of the largest I've heard.  Because there's a Youtube reviewer I've seen with quite the imagination of how big sound stages on TWS (so I don't believe a thing from his impressions), but this one is large without a doubt.

The FR doesn't have anything annoying like M&D, MTW, or many others out there.  Just a nonfitiguing experience.  I would highly recommend.

Curious how the FR would look, but I don't forsee peaks showing up, but there maybe gap in the upper frequencies as it doesn't sound completely full of the spectrum in the upper frequencies.

Need to test out how good it's for call though.  Not definitive on call quality.


----------



## d3myz (Oct 5, 2020)

Just opened my Tranya M10's.

First Impressions, Excellent Sound Stage, they are wide open. Really comfy and I personally really like the push button design. They have some REALLY punchy deep bass in bass mode and the mids nice and fat. Normal mode is not bad, but the mids are pushed way forward. Here's my gripe. They highs are veiled AGAIN, just like the T10. Damnit Tranya. They are missing that sparkle on the high end and the highs sound a bit muffled. I'm really hoping with some burn in they open up a bit, because they really do sound awesome. Another note, the max volume isn't very high, I can comfortably turn this up to one click under max on my XS Max. I'm going to try some different tips and do some burn in. Overall, I think if you enjoy a warmer sound TWS and good puncy bass akin to the L2P's, you'll like these. I think they actually have more bass than the L2p, but they pretty much lack all the high end, oh and they are very mid-rangey. VERY.


----------



## Laethageal (Oct 5, 2020)

Black version of Soundcore L2P on discount with 10hrs to go at 129$ cad (roughly 100USD) on Amazon.ca
Is it worth snagging it up?


----------



## arexyz

Hi All,

Just joined Head-Fi! Wanted to get some opinions on next buy:

I primarily use iPhone and laptop for music, used the original AirPods and loved the convenience of connecting and having wireless earphones, now I'm looking to upgrade. The obvious choice would be air pods pro but a little hesitant about the sound quality (used to be into headphones and as a beginner had ATH M50, Grado but then took a break because of the money it would cost)

Here are a few that I'm looking at

MW07 plus
Momentum True Wireless 2
Libratone Track+ SE
B&O E8 3.0
Sony WF1000XM3

Priorities are sound quality, ease of use, noise cancelling is not a huge factor. I primarily listen to EDM (don't necessarily need the strongest bass but can't be lacking too much), vocals, sometimes instrumentals but also listen to many other genres.

The more I read the more it seems that the sound quality of Bluetooth can't go that high, so then I thought about over ears that have bluetooth but I can also plug in
PX7
H9 3.0
Momentum 3

Please provide any recommendations or thoughts?


----------



## gibletzor

d3myz said:


> Just opened my Tranya M10's.
> 
> First Impressions, Excellent Sound Stage, they are wide open. Really comfy and I personally really like the push button design. They have some REALLY punchy deep bass in bass mode and the mids nice and fat. Normal mode is not bad, but the mids are pushed way forward. Here's my gripe. They highs are veiled AGAIN, just like the T10. Damnit Tranya. They are missing that sparkle on the high end and the highs sound a bit muffled. I'm really hoping with some burn in they open up a bit, because they really do sound awesome. Another note, the max volume isn't very high, I can comfortably turn this up to one click under max on my XS Max. I'm going to try some different tips and do some burn in. Overall, I think if you enjoy a warmer sound TWS and good puncy bass akin to the L2P's, you'll like these. I think they actually have more bass than the L2p, but they pretty much lack all the high end, oh and they are very mid-rangey. VERY.


That makes me sad.  I enjoyed the sound of the B530 much more than the T10.  I was really hoping these would be a B530 with more bass!


----------



## logiatype (Oct 5, 2020)

arexyz said:


> Hi All,
> 
> Just joined Head-Fi! Wanted to get some opinions on next buy:
> 
> ...


The thing with TWS (or any other gear) is that your experience is likely going to be unique to you.
Are you able to buy and return on Amazon?

My rec is the Lypertek Tevi, then the Nuarl N6 Pro.
Mostly EDM and instrumentals for me as well and I like rumbling sub-bass but leaner mid bass above everything else. Vocals are better with the N6 Pro but the Tevi has EQ on Android.

On the subject of the N6P it’s pretty amazing how uncongested/unhurried they sound. I knew the tuning was going to be good for me but wasn’t sure whether HDSS was a gimmick. Definitely seems to be doing something.
And how much bass do you guys need? N6 Pro are definitely NOT bass light to me - mid bass could be a touch lighter 😂


----------



## HiFiHawaii808

arexyz said:


> Hi All,
> 
> Just joined Head-Fi! Wanted to get some opinions on next buy:
> 
> ...


I own airpods, airpod pros and Sony WF1000XM3 earphones with TWS.    Only the Sonys have what I would consider as minimally acceptable sound quality for music.   They have dynamic drivers, so the bass is decent.    I bought mine for $99 on Amazon refurbed.   Hard to beat that deal.  And, the ANS is superior.

For talking on the phone, the Sony's are no good.  They have an ambient mode, but it's nothing compared to the airpod pros.   I use the airpod pros for talking on the phone.

For listening to music, I have Shure se846 IEMs.   These are far superior to the Sony's.    If I wanted to make them TWS, I would probably add the Fostex or Shure TWS modules to the Shure IEMs.


----------



## Laethageal

arexyz said:


> Hi All,
> 
> Just joined Head-Fi! Wanted to get some opinions on next buy:
> 
> ...



If I was to compare my B&O, Sennheiser HD 450BT to my B&W P7, my taste would tell you to go toward the newer PX7. The P7 wouldn't be good for listening while doing chores around the house as they didn't stand much movement before starting to fall, but I heard the newer version is more stable, fit wise. Yet, the SQ is great and it blows away my Sennheiser (but those are actually only the HD 450BT, not the momentum 3 so not a direct comparison) and B&O.

For IEM, I have only started playing with TWS IEM and am actually waiting on my first decent pair to arrive, so I'll let other give you suggestions. Some of the name I heard recently, Nuarl P10, MW07, Soundcore Liberty 2 Pro (if you don't get one of the hiss issue) and a few more I can't recall


----------



## HiFiHawaii808

I forgot to mention.   Ultimate Ears just announced their Fit earphones.   They have custom ear sleeves and a dynamic driver.   I am guess the sound will be decent.  But, it doesn't have ambient mode, nor noise cancellation.   They are pretty cheap at $199.  I can buy them for $159, so I am going to pick up a pair just to see how good they are.   I don't think you can get custom ear sleeves that cheap anywhere else.   If the sound is good, these maybe a good alternative for those seeking good sound quality in a TWS at an affordable cost.


----------



## d3myz (Oct 5, 2020)

gibletzor said:


> That makes me sad.  I enjoyed the sound of the B530 much more than the T10.  I was really hoping these would be a B530 with more bass!


You're telling me man. They are better than the T10 especially the design, even though the case is ENORMOUS! but they don't even have as much definition as the Rimor, which I was not a fan of. I actually use the Rimor now more than any of my other Tranya's. The B530 R2 are a little to sharp for me. I actually just pulled out my B530 R2 and i'm noticing the balance is heavy to the left. Weird.


----------



## hifi80sman

Bose QC Earbuds: 10% cash back if you use your Prime Store Card.
https://www.amazon.com/Bose-QuietComfort-Noise-Cancelling-Earbuds/dp/B08C4KWM9T/

Not bad if you don't mind waiting.  I couldn't wait.


----------



## Mouseman

Laethageal said:


> Black version of Soundcore L2P on discount with 10hrs to go at 129$ cad (roughly 100USD) on Amazon.ca
> Is it worth snagging it up?


Because of the app and the dual drivers, I think the L2P has some of the best sound in a TWS. If you don't care about other features like ANC and ambient, it's in my top 2, and that's a good sale.


----------



## dweaver

Interesting, comparing the WF-XB700 to the Soundcore Pro and they are fairly evenly matches audio wise. The souncore has better detail retrieval in the treble and mids bit is also a bit more metallic sounding, the Sony has a bit larger sound stage. The Sony also requires more tweaking of the signature as the bass is a bit over done and the mids and treble are a bit more subdued.

I think the Sony is a bit more comfortable to where but has more thumping sound walking. But both are pretty comfortable to wear.

I have not used the Sony for calls yet so can't comment on that area but do know the Soundcore holds its own very well in that regard.

Price wise the Sony is cheaper by about 30 dollars so should be the lesser IEM and in specs I think this holds true as it has less charge in the case and no app support but audio wise these are fairly evenly matched even though the Soundcore has a hybrid setup.

Hmmmm, just noticed the Soundcore 2 Pro is now only $129CAD at that price I think its the better TWS between the 2. But if you like the Sony house sound that might trump a few things.

One other thing, they both use physical buttons to control things and they both work OK but I prefer the buttons of the the Soundcore more than the Sony as they are more ergonomically place and are more tactile and easy to press.


----------



## Laethageal

Mouseman said:


> Because of the app and the dual drivers, I think the L2P has some of the best sound in a TWS. If you don't care about other features like ANC and ambient, it's in my top 2, and that's a good sale.





dweaver said:


> Interesting, comparing the WF-XB700 to the Soundcore Pro and they are fairly evenly matches audio wise.
> /snip



Thanks guys. I wasn't aware they didn't have ambient mode, which is pretty much needed for my use case. Damn, think I'll pull the trigger anyway and see if they can fill the need without the common hiss issue, else it's amazon so easy return.


----------



## hifi80sman

clerkpalmer said:


> Keeping on the Bose train, I think they are the best "consumer" ANC model available to date. The total package is solid. ANC is the best I've heard. It just sucks the ambient noise right away. Sq is typical Bose which is to say solid and fun sounding without being over the top. You either love or hate Bose sound and I'm in the former. Fit is great for me and it reminds me how much I hate true iems. I'd still give the sq edge to MTW, AKG, M&D but the Bose is a step ahead of APP and Sony. Best way to describe them is solid. Keepers as hifi80man would say. I do wish Bose would up the ante on sq one of these days but I guess if it ain't broke don't fix it.


I agree with the IEM statement.  I find Bose's design incredibly comfortable and non-fatiguing, especially when it comes to the lack of air pressure caused by seal.  Plantronics has adopted a similar design that's also quite comfortable, but I wish some of the other major brands would as well (Sony).

Right now, for me, Bose holds the TWS crown.


----------



## mixolyd

I’ve been eyeing an upgrade on my Tranya T3’s for a while - they’ve been a great intro to TWS for the last year but are a little too bassy and warm even though I do like a warm sound.

So today my T1XS arrived and so far they are a disaster.  There is a loud hiss making it sound like I’m in a rainstorm that only goes away if I use the app to reset to factory settings, but then when I get them out the box again later on the crazy hiss is back.  I think they are switching on the internal mic and relaying the sound as I can hear my movements being amplified.  I’ve tried to turn this off using the controls but the touch controls are so wildly erratic that I’m hard pressed to even get music to play or pause.  Switching on “easy mode“ doesn’t seem to help much with the controls either - they are either unresponsive half the time or doing something when I’m just trying to adjust the fit in my ear.

Am I missing something with the touch controls or some function for switching the mic off?  

Sound quality: detail is super impressive but they have that tinny-sounding quality I associate with an upper mids push.  I expected something more balanced than the T3’s but these even sound tinny compared to my studio monitors which are pretty flat.


----------



## jasonb (Oct 5, 2020)

assassin10000 said:


> Nope. Same as yours.
> 
> The SoC (snapdragon 845) hardware supports it but Google hasn't enabled it in the software (pixel 3 xl).
> 
> When you tap to switch masters, does the BT20S say disconnected and then connected in the opposite ear of when you turn them on?



None of the Pixels support it. Google must think it's buggy or something. TWS+ with the Lypertek Tevi was pretty buggy with the OnePlus 7T from my experience.


----------



## erockg

hifi80sman said:


> Bose QC Earbuds: 10% cash back if you use your Prime Store Card.
> https://www.amazon.com/Bose-QuietComfort-Noise-Cancelling-Earbuds/dp/B08C4KWM9T/
> 
> Not bad if you don't mind waiting.  I couldn't wait.


Also, my wife is a nurse.  I used her ID.me and got $30 off mine.  Been having ear fatigue with them.  Sure, wore them for 4 hours straight, but I get zero ear fatigue with my Klipsch T5 II's.


----------



## erockg

arexyz said:


> Hi All,
> 
> Just joined Head-Fi! Wanted to get some opinions on next buy:
> 
> ...


Not that they are the best on your list, but if I could, I'd buy those Libratone again.  I had them, and let them go.  The form factor rocks.  I read the company is no more or looking for funding again.


----------



## georgelai57

hifi80sman said:


> I agree with the IEM statement.  I find Bose's design incredibly comfortable and non-fatiguing, especially when it comes to the lack of air pressure caused by seal.  Plantronics has adopted a similar design that's also quite comfortable, but I wish some of the other major brands would as well (Sony).
> 
> Right now, for me, Bose holds the TWS crown.


Based on your ownership of it so far, has there been dropouts? I loved my Bose SSF, except the persistent dropouts or cutouts on one side were just too much to live with.


----------



## erockg (Oct 6, 2020)

I was just at a park and walking around for about an hour with just a few trees and no buildings for a Bluetooth signal to bounce off of and I had zero drop outs using the Bose Quietcomfort true wireless earbuds.


----------



## hifi80sman

georgelai57 said:


> Based on your ownership of it so far, has there been dropouts? I loved my Bose SSF, except the persistent dropouts or cutouts on one side were just too much to live with.


Just used them at my desk mostly, but there were no issues when walking into the room next door.  Let's put it this way, I haven't experienced any drop outs in situations where there shouldn't be any.


----------



## mixolyd

What is the best sounding TWS under $100 or so with physical buttons, none of this touch malarkey?

I’ve resolved my problem with the T1XS’ by de-syncing and re-syncing everything - that seems to have banished the internal mic rainstorms.  Switching on the Easy Mode has restored the full touch controls (which is the opposite of what the app claims it does).

On the other hand I’ve realised that I hate this feeling of having two little computers hanging off my ears, just waiting for any stray touch to react unpredictably.  I’m longing for the old simplicity of physical buttons I knew from the Tranyas.


----------



## regancipher

Review on the T1 Pro here: https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/fiil-t1-pro-bt5-2-ipx5-anc-tws.24694/reviews


----------



## webvan (Oct 6, 2020)

So I received my Bose QC Earbuds too and they have both great and weak aspects.

Starting with what can make or break a TWE, the fit is terrific in spite of the dubious form factor. They don't look as weird as the previous Bose earbuds fortunately and are in fact pretty close to the XM3s going from memory, maybe a tad larger ? The massive difference with the XM3s is that they were clearly designed by people who worried about how they would be worn (what ?!) and are close to perfect in that respect. The tips create a seal (more on that later) that does not vary however hard you might want to shake your head, they balance the weight very well and you forget you have those heavy things in your ears. One slight niggle is that my ears got a bit itchy after an hour but that's possibly due to the rubber having to "wear in" a bit.  Unusually I didn't have to use the L size tips so people with smaller ears might feel some pressure with the S size.

SQ is very pleasant if indeed a bit low on bass, especially when you're on the move. Someone mentioned "fatigue" and I can see where that might come from as they are a tad "bright", more so than the QC25 that I usually wear at my desk. I thought the App had an EQ but I was wrong. The separation and soundstage are great, not unlike the LP2s my goto "critical listening" TWEs. More listening required here, especially for the "fatigue" part.

Overall isolation is good and even "impressive" when activated, like for the APPs, but unlike other ANC models you can't tell what's due to passive isolation and to ANC since it can't be turned off (more on that later). The passive isolation seems better than on the QC20 but still quite light as non droning sounds do not get filtered out like they do with the Bomaker SiFi II or the Amazon Echo Buds. The big letdown is the lack of an ANC OFF setting for windy situations, instead we have 3 useless "favorites" (ANC level from 0/Ambient to 10) that can be toggled with a double tap on the left bud. Someone needs to wake-up at Bose and make one of the "levels" off ! In the meantime it will be impossible to use these on a bike and likely while running (will try later) or even while walking in the wind. Oh and an option to pause music when using the 0/Ambient level would be convenient too.

The case is...the bulkiest I have ever seen I think and it's "boxy" too, at least the Echo Buds case is flatter. Also I'm not a fan of the button to unlock it. I can see how it could help in the rare case where you drop it but the rest of the time it's a pain to open as you have to push the button right in.

So not bad, but for the price I'd want them to be great and without all these sore points (no ANC Off, bulk of buds/case, poor controls) for them to replace my goto "travel" TWEs, the Amazon Echo Buds that have only one real negative, their microUSB port and that I can easily live with. As QC25/35 replacements for desk use ? Sure as they are less tiring to wear and don't cut you out from people you might have to interact with. Or if you spend your time on planes, but who does these days ?


----------



## DigDub

mixolyd said:


> What is the best sounding TWS under $100 or so with physical buttons, none of this touch malarkey?
> 
> I’ve resolved my problem with the T1XS’ by de-syncing and re-syncing everything - that seems to have banished the internal mic rainstorms.  Switching on the Easy Mode has restored the full touch controls (which is the opposite of what the app claims it does).
> 
> On the other hand I’ve realised that I hate this feeling of having two little computers hanging off my ears, just waiting for any stray touch to react unpredictably.  I’m longing for the old simplicity of physical buttons I knew from the Tranyas.


Lypertek tevi would be a good choice.


----------



## Laethageal

Pulled the trigger on the discount yesterday.

The 129$ cad L2P are coming in later today


----------



## eiraku (Oct 6, 2020)

mixolyd said:


> What is the best sounding TWS under $100 or so with physical buttons, none of this touch malarkey?
> 
> I’ve resolved my problem with the T1XS’ by de-syncing and re-syncing everything - that seems to have banished the internal mic rainstorms.  Switching on the Easy Mode has restored the full touch controls (which is the opposite of what the app claims it does).
> 
> On the other hand I’ve realised that I hate this feeling of having two little computers hanging off my ears, just waiting for any stray touch to react unpredictably.  I’m longing for the old simplicity of physical buttons I knew from the Tranyas.



Hiss kinda sounds like monitor mode was on TBH.

Which brings me to another wierd quirk with the T1XS: Monitor doesn't even work when you're listening to a non-music steam (like games or whatnot).

Or maybe it's "not working" coz I have "Game Mode" on (which literally knocks 100ms-ish off the already good base latency).

(Upon further testing nahhhh Monitor Mode is working fine, even with "Game Mode" on. It's just that MonMode doesn't actually stop or reduce the volume of the stream being played be it music or anything so the "passthrough" gets covered over with sound unless you pull volume down. So yeah false alarm for the most part)

It's kinda funny that the side switching and "True" wireless-ness of the non-Qualcomm T1XS is actually "BETTER" (as in, truly seamless) than how it works with a TWS+ set (my COAs - and yes I have a Snap 845 with TWS+ enabled). Whatever chipset they're using, it's pretty good at least in that department.

And of course in terms of latency, which it smokes the L2P and the COA at, even with base settings without "Game Mode" on.

Plus, they actually go pretty snug in, which might be both a pro and a con. For one thing passive NC is stellar but the "snug-thud" thing is pretty real lol (not to mention having to tweak it around to make sure my Sony hybrids are not actually blocking sound).

For pure listening joy the L2Ps still take the cake in my mind, even if the T1XSes are proving to be a pretty convenient pair to use day-to-day (small, monitor-mode, relatively good SQ, less finicky truly seamless side switching - with wear-detect off that is).

I do wish they would have stuck a spring into the lid of the T1XS case to make it pop up and stay open. Sometimes it's almost a chore to have to hold the lid open to extract the buds out (and sometimes you get unlucky, and one bud gets caught on the top of the lid as it drops down and is almost thrown out of your hands onto the ground 🤣).

As a side note, I think you can tune down the touch sensitivity on the T1XS through the app if it's bothering you? Not sure how much that would help however.


----------



## logiatype

New TWS by Grado. No real technical info though:

https://gradolabs.com/headphones/wireless/item/126-gt220


----------



## BigZ12

What more technical info do you need?


----------



## go0gle

I feel like they are all more or less the same now. There is only so much they can do with the current crop of Qualcomm chips


----------



## logiatype

BigZ12 said:


> What more technical info do you need?


Number and type of drivers? ANC? etc (unless that was sarcasm lol)...


----------



## d3myz

regancipher said:


> Review on the T1 Pro here: https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/fiil-t1-pro-bt5-2-ipx5-anc-tws.24694/reviews


Damn, i just bought the T1xs on amazon, thiking it was the Pro. oh well. They seems to get some pretty high marks, so i'm still looking forward to trying they out after my HUGE Tranya M10 disappointment.


----------



## hifi80sman

logiatype said:


> New TWS by Grado. No real technical info though:
> 
> https://gradolabs.com/headphones/wireless/item/126-gt220


Looks like a re-brand/off-the-shelf from an ODM.  $259?  I always thought Grado was massively overpriced and this doesn't help that perception.


----------



## Weendog

I've been loving the XM3's as my primary TWEs (with only a couple of Chi-Fi options as my backups), but am intrigued by the Bose QC's. I never had the fit problem with the XM3's that many do and I think they are overall a great pair. I love the ambient sound and sound quality in general. With that being said, for people who have tried and liked the XM3's and now have the QC's, how much better would you say the QC's are, and is it worth upgrading?

It's either that or wait for the XM4's.


----------



## hifi80sman

Weendog said:


> I've been loving the XM3's as my primary TWEs (with only a couple of Chi-Fi options as my backups), but am intrigued by the Bose QC's. I never had the fit problem with the XM3's that many do and I think they are overall a great pair. I love the ambient sound and sound quality in general. With that being said, for people who have tried and liked the XM3's and now have the QC's, how much better would you say the QC's are, and is it worth upgrading?
> 
> It's either that or wait for the XM4's.


I would upgrade.  The soundstage and instrument separation are better on the Bose QC Earbuds, providing a more immersive experience.  I happen to enjoy both Sony's and Bose's house sound, but I think the whole package Bose offers is better (fit, IPX4, call quality, sound).

Hopefully, the XM4 earbuds will have a refined design for more universal comfort and secure fit.


----------



## regancipher

d3myz said:


> Damn, i just bought the T1xs on amazon, thiking it was the Pro. oh well. They seems to get some pretty high marks, so i'm still looking forward to trying they out after my HUGE Tranya M10 disappointment.


T1XS are just as useful as T1 Pro. I like both


----------



## eiraku (Oct 6, 2020)

regancipher said:


> T1XS are just as useful as T1 Pro. I like both



I don't have the Pro either, but I similarly like my T1XS, if not simply for how tiny it is inside the case and how "seamless" they are in "pick-up, drop-a-side, put-both-back-on" use (they are pretty amazingly seamless TBH, a helluva lot better than TWS+ is on the COAs at least).

Annnd, if I haven't raved enough already, that sweet, sweet low latency (they're good enough for casual Gaming, at least for me).

Also I'm internally debating to get the Pros anyway as Scarbir's been pretty clear about how... uhm... ineffective the ANC is on those.

Slightly "improved" sound and wireless charging will be nice to have but yeaaaaahhhh... not sure that's worth pretty much twice what I paid for the T1XS (the _lowest_ price the China sellers on my local web storefront are selling them
 T1 Pro at).

Plus the "English" Fiil+ android app doesn't actually support them yet either 🤣


----------



## clerkpalmer

hifi80sman said:


> I would upgrade.  The soundstage and instrument separation are better on the Bose QC Earbuds, providing a more immersive experience.  I happen to enjoy both Sony's and Bose's house sound, but I think the whole package Bose offers is better (fit, IPX4, call quality, sound).
> 
> Hopefully, the XM4 earbuds will have a refined design for more universal comfort and secure fit.



If the money isn't an obstacle, having owned both as well, the Bose offers an upgrade in most areas.  The biggest weakness of the Sony is fit but you say that's not an issue for you which makes it a closer call but I still think the Bose wins in every category and is a meaningful improvement. If the Sony is a 7, the Bose is an 8.


----------



## logiatype

clerkpalmer said:


> If the money isn't an obstacle, having owned both as well, the Bose offers an upgrade in most areas.  The biggest weakness of the Sony is fit but you say that's not an issue for you which makes it a closer call but I still think the Bose wins in every category and is a meaningful improvement. If the Sony is a 7, the Bose is an 8.


Pictures of the app? What does the EQ look like?


----------



## clerkpalmer

logiatype said:


> Pictures of the app? What does the EQ look like?


The app is pretty weak sauce and no EQ.  It does allow 10 steps of ANC which is nice.


----------



## webvan

clerkpalmer said:


> If the money isn't an obstacle, having owned both as well, the Bose offers an upgrade in most areas.  The biggest weakness of the Sony is fit but you say that's not an issue for you which makes it a closer call but I still think the Bose wins in every category and is a meaningful improvement. If the Sony is a 7, the Bose is an 8.


Well the Sony do allow ANC to be turned off (like all other existing ANC TWEs apart from the Bose and the LTA+), this is a complete deal killer for me with the Bose as it only makes them usable in windless/speedless environments.

@Weendog - you might want to read the detailed feedback post I wrote today for the pros and cons of the Bose. The Bose have some strong points but if you're miraculously ok with the XM3s fit I can't see any reason to upgrade. Like there is no reason for me to upgrade from my Amazon Echo Buds and LP2s combo (with a couple of others for specific usage like the X12s and Bomaker IIs !).


----------



## dj24

d3myz said:


> Damn, i just bought the T1xs on amazon, thiking it was the Pro. oh well. They seems to get some pretty high marks, so i'm still looking forward to trying they out after my HUGE Tranya M10 disappointment.



I'm starting to notice issues with my Tranya M10 as well..

Have you had any connection issues with VOIP calls on zoom etc on your Tranya M10?  My calls have been dropping and losing connection on my 4.2 bluetooth capable laptop even when I'm right next to it.  I've also experienced the "thump" effect on calls when yesterday the other party on the call out of the blue asked if I was wearing flip flops (which I was )


----------



## clerkpalmer

webvan said:


> Well the Sony do allow ANC to be turned off (like all other existing ANC TWEs apart from the Bose and the LTA+), this is a complete deal killer for me with the Bose as it only makes them usable in windless/speedless environments.
> 
> @Weendog - you might want to read the detailed feedback post I wrote today for the pros and cons of the Bose. The Bose have some strong points but if you're miraculously ok with the XM3s fit I can't see any reason to upgrade. Like there is no reason for me to upgrade from my Amazon Echo Buds and LP2s combo (with a couple of others for specific usage like the X12s and Bomaker IIs !).


I didn't realize that zero on the slider would still have ANC.  Interesting. Will have to give them a try on my bike.


----------



## webvan

Yeah ZERO is just ambient, sounds like you didn't read my review above  Be ready to have your ears "scractched" when you ride your bike ! It's that painful !


----------



## Weendog (Oct 6, 2020)

webvan said:


> Well the Sony do allow ANC to be turned off (like all other existing ANC TWEs apart from the Bose and the LTA+), this is a complete deal killer for me with the Bose as it only makes them usable in windless/speedless environments.
> 
> @Weendog - you might want to read the detailed feedback post I wrote today for the pros and cons of the Bose. The Bose have some strong points but if you're miraculously ok with the XM3s fit I can't see any reason to upgrade. Like there is no reason for me to upgrade from my Amazon Echo Buds and LP2s combo (with a couple of others for specific usage like the X12s and Bomaker IIs !).


I must have completely generic shaped ears as the XM3s have never budged while in use -- lucky me! My KZ S2's are the only poorly fitting TWEs I own.




webvan said:


> Yeah ZERO is just ambient, sounds like you didn't read my review above  Be ready to have your ears "scractched" when you ride your bike ! It's that painful !


ANC "off" is likely one of the more simple firmware upgrades, thankfully. I'd be surprised if that fix doesn't come soon.


----------



## Laethageal (Oct 6, 2020)

I've just received the L2P. Since I'm always like a kid when I receive something, I couldn't stop myself and had to do a quick test 

After selecting the left IEM in my phone's Bluetooth list of new device, it connected almost instantly. Powering up the second bud connected it within seconds without me having to do anything. I call this connection as totally nailed, 10 out of 10.

I then tested a track 10 seconds but couldn't bear the slack and extremely boosted bass on it, so I downloaded the app to see if there was an EQ, couldn't remember.
It asked me to update to 1.28 firmware version on the IEM so I stopped the music as requested in the app and let it update. Painless process which took about 2 minutes, after which they rebooted and instantly connected back.

I then went to EQ and decided to test the hear-ID setting on it. After the +/- 3 minute hear-Id procedure, the sound was better sounding to my hear but still had a feeling of the bass being too powerful (easily 6dB+ too strong vs the mids/high) as well as as the bass not sounding tight at all on the 3 tracks I quickly tested. Maybe it has to do with needing more customization in the EQ to lower bass and to let the buds get some burn in, after all they only played about 5 minutes.

Before leaving them, I put back one of the IEM in the case and the other continued playing on the other, which is something I needed occasionally. Great, no issue with this. Time to put back the second bud in and get back to real life chores and work... but before this, a quick swap to my B&O H5 and B&W P7 to make sure of what I heard. Yup, I could instantly confirm my impression about the bass being WAY too heavy on the L2P as well as the soundstage & the vocal presence not being that impressive.

Seems like I did expect more out of it, but at the same time I know I haven't tweaked them yet not gave them time to burn in.

I'll give back more impression later when I had more time to mess around with the EQ to try and fix the bass issue!


----------



## Mouseman

Laethageal said:


> I've just received the L2P. Since I'm always like a kid when I receive something, I couldn't stop myself and had to do a quick test
> 
> After selecting the left IEM in my phone's Bluetooth list of new device, it connected almost instantly. Powering up the second bud connected it within seconds without me having to do anything. I call this connection as totally nailed, 10 out of 10.
> 
> ...


100% agree that they need some time to burn in. At first, I was wondering what the fuss was about. Now they're some of my favorites. 

Try some of the preset EQ settings or set your own EQ - the stock sound has a LOT of bass.


----------



## dweaver

My L2P settled down a bit as well but they are a bassy IEM, so are the WF-XB700 from Sony. But the Sony have settled down after a day of use as well so I am am just gently elevating the mids and treble down and a very slight bass reduction (using the EQ in Neutron) or even just turning off the EQ.

Have to do a very serious comparison between the L2P and XB700 soon as I amquite enjoying the XB700.

But over all package, features, etc I think the L2P on sale is better than the XB700 even if I slightly prefer it sonically. Need to do a proper AB comparison though.


----------



## Laethageal (Oct 6, 2020)

Mouseman said:


> 100% agree that they need some time to burn in. At first, I was wondering what the fuss was about. Now they're some of my favorites.
> 
> Try some of the preset EQ settings or set your own EQ - the stock sound has a LOT of bass.



I've actually let them play while sitting on my monitor stand for the last hour. I quickly tried a few others settings and the bass was better balanced. For now, I've selected Lounge but that might change when I put more time on it and with further burn in.



dweaver said:


> My L2P settled down a bit as well but they are a bassy IEM, so are the WF-XB700 from Sony. But the Sony have settled down after a day of use as well so I am am just gently elevating the mids and treble down and a very slight bass reduction (using the EQ in Neutron) or even just turning off the EQ.
> 
> Have to do a very serious comparison between the L2P and XB700 soon as I amquite enjoying the XB700.
> 
> But over all package, features, etc I think the L2P on sale is better than the XB700 even if I slightly prefer it sonically. Need to do a proper AB comparison though.



I haven't used Neutron in a while. Actually bought it for both me and my wife about 10 years ago but let's say that laziness got the upper hand on me and I now simply use Spotify at highest quality download.

I read about some hissing before and it was one of the reason for holding back. I tested back the L2P on the track Mad from Ayelle on Spotify, which is a joy to listen to with the B&W P7 as you can hear her whispering into your ear. On the L2P, there is some very easy to spot hissing on her voice, starting mostly from 30 seconds and later. Would anyone of you 2 check if their L2P exhibit the same behavior? I know I never heard this on my B&O, B&W nor even my cheaper Sennheiser HD450 BT.


----------



## mixolyd

DigDub said:


> Lypertek tevi would be a good choice.





eiraku said:


> For pure listening joy the L2Ps still take the cake in my mind, even if the T1XSes are proving to be a pretty convenient pair to use day-to-day (small, monitor-mode, relatively good SQ, less finicky truly seamless side switching - with wear-detect off that is).



Between the Tevi and L2Ps, looking at reviews I think the Tevis (post update) might be more suited since I i do want to get away from the excessive bass and warmth of the Tranya T3’s and the L2PS sound like they might take bass too far as well.


----------



## Laethageal

mixolyd said:


> Between the Tevi and L2Ps, looking at reviews I think the Tevis (post update) might be more suited since I i do want to get away from the excessive bass and warmth of the Tranya T3’s and the L2PS sound like they might take bass too far as well.


I can confirm, the L2P I just received a few hours ago are really bass heavy on stock profile. Have not played that much with EQ yet but moving away from the Soundcore EQ profile helped very much and it is now an OK sounding TWS IMHO even if still slightly too bass heavy to be the perfect sound signature for my ear. I also found some hissing I'm trying to figure out if I can get rid of somehow...


----------



## hifi80sman

Weendog said:


> I must have completely generic shaped ears as the XM3s have never budged while in use -- lucky me! My KZ S2's are the only poorly fitting TWEs I own.
> 
> 
> 
> ANC "off" is likely one of the more simple firmware upgrades, thankfully. I'd be surprised if that fix doesn't come soon.


If you have the option of purchasing from somewhere you can return the Bose QC Earbuds if you're not satisfied, I'd recommend giving them a shot and see how they work for your use situations.


----------



## erockg

hifi80sman said:


> If you have the option of purchasing from somewhere you can return the Bose QC Earbuds if you're not satisfied, I'd recommend giving them a shot and see how they work for your use situations.


I have to admit.  I'm really torn about mine.  The ear fatigue is a bitch.  And compared to the new Klipsch, the Bose are huge.  I think I like the sound on the Klipsch better.  But that's subjective.  It's been a Van Halen day as expected.  My Bose might be getting flipped on eBay or returned soon.  Still testing them out.


----------



## hifi80sman

erockg said:


> I have to admit.  I'm really torn about mine.  The ear fatigue is a bitch.  And compared to the new Klipsch, the Bose are huge.  I think I like the sound on the Klipsch better.  But that's subjective.  It's been a Van Halen day as expected.  My Bose might be getting flipped on eBay or returned soon.  Still testing them out.


I've always had good luck with comfort/fit on Bose products.  Personally, I have more sensitivity to tips you have to jam in your ear.  But if there's fatigue, there's fatigue!  You have to do what you have to do.

You're making me curious about the Klipsch!


----------



## Luke Skywalker

Caipirina said:


> Very curious to hear about your first run / thud test
> 
> I have a distant chance now that someone coming from the UK can bring the buds mid November, but they will have to stay with him in his 4 week quarantine ...
> 
> Still enough time to figure out if I 'need' them


Hey so I did weights on Sunday and ran yesterday and today and I didn’t have a single “pop out” event with the large tips. i Love my N6P’s but they sometimes pop out


----------



## dweaver

Laethageal said:


> I can confirm, the L2P I just received a few hours ago are really bass heavy on stock profile. Have not played that much with EQ yet but moving away from the Soundcore EQ profile helped very much and it is now an OK sounding TWS IMHO even if still slightly too bass heavy to be the perfect sound signature for my ear. I also found some hissing I'm trying to figure out if I can get rid of somehow...


I have 55 year old ears so thankfully can not hear a hiss in my L2P. I have no doubt it probably exists I just can't hear that good anymore. The ATH"s I returned 2 days ago on the other hand had a definite issue with sohnd in the left ear, it sounded like a blown speaker... so my ears are not what they used to be but not that bad LOL.


----------



## Luke Skywalker

dweaver said:


> The 800N was on sale as well but was still $229CAD so I went with the XB700 which was more in my budget.
> 
> If had the money I would love to have bought the Technics EAHAZ70WK.
> 
> I use Neutron on my phone which has a good EQ which helps offset the lack of app support.


Do you just play your own collection using Neutron or have you found a way of way of streaming Tidal / Qobuz?  I have an android app on my HiBy R6 pro that does that called USB Audio Player I think but I haven’t found a way to play Tidal and Qobuz on iPhone other than using their apps


----------



## hifi80sman

Luke Skywalker said:


> Hey so I did weights on Sunday and ran yesterday and today and I didn’t have a single “pop out” event with the large tips. i Love my N6P’s but they sometimes pop out


The Force was with you.


----------



## dweaver

I have a 128GB SD card packed with my music and rarely stream from any service. Now that I have a larger data package on my phone I might start testing one of the services like Tidal or something like that.


----------



## CasioPSX

ok I was in here a few days ago asking about tws adapters but I've changed my mind since. now I'm just looking for a simple really nice sounding tws iem. I had the Sony wh1000xm3's and dear God did I hate them. the highs were piercing, and the noise cancelling would always be ON by default and I would have to wait to turn the NC off (I rarely need it on, if ever), the app was meh, and the fit was painful after a few hours. can anyone rec a nice pair? fwiw, my favorite iems are (ironically) the Sony XBA-Z5s and my second favorite the moondrop kxxs.


----------



## Laethageal

dweaver said:


> I have 55 year old ears so thankfully can not hear a hiss in my L2P. I have no doubt it probably exists I just can't hear that good anymore. The ATH"s I returned 2 days ago on the other hand had a definite issue with _sound_* (corrected that typo for you * in the left ear, it sounded like a blown speaker... so my ears are not what they used to be but not that bad LOL.


Have you tested the song I suggested? 
I have poor ears myself, including some loss of hearing as well as constant tinnitus. Yet, I cannot miss the hiss. When I handed the L2P to my son, he sais he heard it even when the song was paused, but I couldn't.


----------



## clerkpalmer

CasioPSX said:


> ok I was in here a few days ago asking about tws adapters but I've changed my mind since. now I'm just looking for a simple really nice sounding tws iem. I had the Sony wh1000xm3's and dear God did I hate them. the highs were piercing, and the noise cancelling would always be ON by default and I would have to wait to turn the NC off (I rarely need it on, if ever), the app was meh, and the fit was painful after a few hours. can anyone rec a nice pair? fwiw, my favorite iems are (ironically) the Sony XBA-Z5s and my second favorite the moondrop kxxs.


If you like the balanced  sound of the kxxs (harman tuned?) check out the Nuarl or the AKGN400.  Both are turned neutral and have excellent sound quality.  I liked my kxxs but they didn't mesh well with the BT20 and I couldn't get them to stay in the ear.  More proof traditional IEMs don't work for me.


----------



## assassin10000

Laethageal said:


> I can confirm, the L2P I just received a few hours ago are really bass heavy on stock profile. Have not played that much with EQ yet but moving away from the Soundcore EQ profile helped very much and it is now an OK sounding TWS IMHO even if still slightly too bass heavy to be the perfect sound signature for my ear. I also found some hissing I'm trying to figure out if I can get rid of somehow...



Here's the EQ I used with the L2P. I found the bass way too heavy as well. My preferred signature is somewhere between DF and Harman with some warmth without being overly thick.


----------



## clerkpalmer (Oct 6, 2020)

Luke Skywalker said:


> Do you just play your own collection using Neutron or have you found a way of way of streaming Tidal / Qobuz?  I have an android app on my HiBy R6 pro that does that called USB Audio Player I think but I haven’t found a way to play Tidal and Qobuz on iPhone other than using their apps


I don't think there is anything comparable to USB Audio Player over iOS.  That said, I think you can use a USB DAC like a dragonfly to stream hi res over an iPhone just like you would over Android but if you want EQ you may want to try a BT streamer like the Fiio BTR5 or the ES100.  Of course, iOS is limited to AAC which neuters those awesome devices.  This is part of the reason I've ditched iPhone for good until they up their game and incorporate LDAC.


----------



## clerkpalmer

assassin10000 said:


> Here's the EQ I used with the L2P. I found the bass way too heavy as well. My preferred signature is somewhere between DF and Harman with some warmth without being overly thick.


Too bad it doesn't go lower at 100 ... I found the piano setting pretty nice on the L2P.


----------



## eiraku (Oct 6, 2020)

Laethageal said:


> Have you tested the song I suggested?
> I have poor ears myself, including some loss of hearing as well as constant tinnitus. Yet, I cannot miss the hiss. When I handed the L2P to my son, he sais he heard it even when the song was paused, but I couldn't.



While there is no actual background hiss on my L2P (I'm thinking I'm not young enough anymore lol), I do believe it's that BA the L2P has that causes this. It does add microdetail and sparkle but unfortunately it can push things a tad too far, exacerbating any mastering issues (not compression anomalies mind you) already present in any given recording (e.g. hiss).

Or something 🤣

Also, this probably why I find the smoother T1XS to be an easier listen sometimes TBH, despite my preference to the L2P's spaciousness (and sparkle).


----------



## Laethageal

assassin10000 said:


> Here's the EQ I used with the L2P. I found the bass way too heavy as well. My preferred signature is somewhere between DF and Harman with some warmth without being overly thick.


I'll test that out. 
Which version do own? I have hissing on female vocals on mine, but it seems from the box that I own the first iteration.


----------



## eiraku

Laethageal said:


> I'll test that out.
> Which version do own? I have hissing on female vocals on mine, but it seems from the box that I own the first iteration.



Carefully (CAREFULLY) open the Type-C flap and there should be a 16 digit serial there. SoundCore support should be able to check which iteration of the L2P you have with that.

I say carefully because it smears pretty easily if you open it up wrong 🤣


----------



## assassin10000

Laethageal said:


> I'll test that out.
> Which version do own? I have hissing on female vocals on mine, but it seems from the box that I own the first iteration.



I had v3 (1947xxx S/N). So no hiss.


----------



## Laethageal

eiraku said:


> Carefully (CAREFULLY) open the Type-C flap and there should be a 16 digit serial there. SoundCore support should be able to check which iteration of the L2P you have with that.
> 
> I say carefully because it smears pretty easily if you open it up wrong 🤣


Under that small usb-c flap? Would never have looked there. I tried figuring out one the box which code was the serial 🤣


----------



## tma6

Galaxy Buds + have been TWS endgame for me for a bit now, but I might actually try these Ultimate Ears FITS. From my experience with custom IEMs, they isolate better than any ANC earbuds that I've tried, so if this can actually do what it says it does this could be a game changer. We'll see though, I'm still a bit skeptical.


----------



## howdy

Luke Skywalker said:


> Do you just play your own collection using Neutron or have you found a way of way of streaming Tidal / Qobuz?  I have an android app on my HiBy R6 pro that does that called USB Audio Player I think but I haven’t found a way to play Tidal and Qobuz on iPhone other than using their apps


UAPP does not work on Apple. At least the last time I checked and I check often. Works great on Android. I use it all the time for Tidal playback.


----------



## Luke Skywalker

Weendog said:


> I've been loving the XM3's as my primary TWEs (with only a couple of Chi-Fi options as my backups), but am intrigued by the Bose QC's. I never had the fit problem with the XM3's that many do and I think they are overall a great pair. I love the ambient sound and sound quality in general. With that being said, for people who have tried and liked the XM3's and now have the QC's, how much better would you say the QC's are, and is it worth upgrading?
> 
> It's either that or wait for the XM4's.


I have both and I think the Bose sound a thousand times as good as the Sony.  I’ve tried every EQ Profile I can find on the forums, different tips.  with the bose... put them in your ears and enjoy


----------



## Luke Skywalker

clerkpalmer said:


> I don't think there is anything comparable to USB Audio Player over iOS.  That said, I think you can use a USB DAC like a dragonfly to stream hi res over an iPhone just like you would over Android but if you want EQ you may want to try a BT streamer like the Fiio BTR5 or the ES100.  Of course, iOS is limited to AAC which neuters those awesome devices.  This is part of the reason I've ditched iPhone for good until they up their game and incorporate LDAC.


Ha nice... I have an ES100 that I use to stream Tidal, Qobuz , and Neutron from my iPhone to my JH Lola’s. I connect my iPhone directly to my iFi xDSD if I want full quality.  My Dragonfly red stays in my car


----------



## snip3r77

Can I check if the Fiil T1XS is suitable for jogging? Is the BT connection stable? Pixel 3 user here. Is it water/sweat resistance? 
Thanks


----------



## cubenity

snip3r77 said:


> Can I check if the Fiil T1XS is suitable for jogging? Is the BT connection stable? Pixel 3 user here. Is it water/sweat resistance?
> Thanks


it's never dropped for me in 3 weeks of use, and it's supposedly IPX5 certified


----------



## logiatype

Luke Skywalker said:


> Ha nice... I have an ES100 that I use to stream Tidal, Qobuz , and Neutron from my iPhone to my JH Lola’s. I connect my iPhone directly to my iFi xDSD if I want full quality.  My Dragonfly red stays in my car


The bluetooth connection to the ES100 really puts TWS solutions to shame which shouldn't really be a surprise given the space available for a bigger antenna. It shows up in particularly in Teams calls (as a glitching sound).
I'm thinking of getting a Qudelix 5K for home-office use and just using TWS for commuting.


----------



## Francesco Montanari

Just for your info: 

I received an exclusive coupon for my telegram channel. 47€ for Fiil T1 XS from Italian Warehouse of Geekbuying

NNNTROVA2

https://www.geekbuying.com/item/FII...nitor-Mode-Wear-Detection-AAC-SBC-423082.html


----------



## galgofa

Francesco Montanari said:


> Just for your info:
> 
> I received an exclusive coupon for my telegram channel. 47€ for Fiil T1 XS from Italian Warehouse of Geekbuying



here is 45  €  free shipping


----------



## kl884347

snip3r77 said:


> Can I check if the Fiil T1XS is suitable for jogging? Is the BT connection stable? Pixel 3 user here. Is it water/sweat resistance?
> Thanks


Well, I went jogging with the Fiil and put them in my pocket as I was cooling down. Totally forgot and they went through the laundry.  I put them nozzles up under a warm lamp for a few days and they turned on right away and the touch controls are still working.


----------



## Francesco Montanari

galgofa said:


> here is 45  €  free shipping


I know but is from china so for EU customers is not affordable (delivery time, duties, etc...)

From Italy it tooks 24 hours to arrive


----------



## galgofa

Francesco Montanari said:


> I know but is from china so for EU customers is not affordable (delivery time, duties, etc...)
> 
> From Italy it tooks 24 hours to arrive



Just joking, aiming to ask to reduce a bit more and i will order as well ) Thank you anyway.


----------



## Bobbetybob

https://www.kickstarter.com/project...best-sounding-hybrid-dual-driver-tws-earbuds/

Soundpeats H1 are on Kickstarter, early bird price is $69 so I've given them a shot, looks like they'll ship December or early next year. BA+DD and aptx Adaptive are the main interests, everything else seems about what I'd expect for the price (especially for $120 RRP), just a shame they don't seem to have an app but at least their control scheme covers all the bases.


----------



## Laethageal

assassin10000 said:


> I had v3 (1947xxx S/N). So no hiss.


Seems like I have A1810xxxx.
How do we figure out the version?


----------



## assassin10000

Laethageal said:


> Seems like I have A1810xxxx.
> How do we figure out the version?



https://www.head-fi.org/threads/goi...soon-or-are-we-there-yet.861024/post-15549424


----------



## marcus2704

Can anyone share their thoughts on the Klipsch T5 II Sports McLaren earphones?


----------



## erockg

marcus2704 said:


> Can anyone share their thoughts on the Klipsch T5 II Sports McLaren earphones?


I bought both the McLaren and the standard zippo version.  Absolutely love them.  I'm returning the McLaren because both headphones and features are identical.  McLaren has extras, wingtips, huge waterproof case and charging pad that I don't need.  Sticking with the black standard version.  I personally love the fit, sound can be EQ'd, transparency mode is great.  I've used them on work calls and no issues.  I do like the fit better than the new Bose, which seem to be causing ear fatigue for me, but maybe the tips need breaking in.  Anyway, just my two cents.  I've posted pics on this thread of both Klipsch T5 II versions.


----------



## Laethageal

assassin10000 said:


> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/goi...soon-or-are-we-there-yet.861024/post-15549424


Thanks.
Wondering if I didn't get a fake, since there is absolutely no 19 in the serial.


----------



## assassin10000

Laethageal said:


> Thanks.
> Wondering if I didn't get a fake, since there is absolutely no 19 in the serial.



Anything before the 1943xx s/n is V1 afaik.


----------



## clerkpalmer

FWIW:  https://www.cnet.com/news/bose-quie...-on-sound-and-noise-canceling-but-not-design/

Interesting comparison to the MTW2 in terms of SQ.


----------



## marcus2704

erockg said:


> I bought both the McLaren and the standard zippo version.  Absolutely love them.  I'm returning the McLaren because both headphones and features are identical.  McLaren has extras, wingtips, huge waterproof case and charging pad that I don't need.  Sticking with the black standard version.  I personally love the fit, sound can be EQ'd, transparency mode is great.  I've used them on work calls and no issues.  I do like the fit better than the new Bose, which seem to be causing ear fatigue for me, but maybe the tips need breaking in.  Anyway, just my two cents.  I've posted pics on this thread of both Klipsch T5 II versions.



Many thanks for your impressions, I have ordered a set for myself which I will receive on Friday. 

I also have the Bose as of today, only listened to them for about 20 minutes and feel they sound decent.  I also own the Anker Soundcore Liberty Air Pro 2 and the Jabra Elite 75T earphones and my initial impression is the Bose's sound quality is at least in the same league as those (both of which I rate highly), to the point where its becoming difficult to pick one as a standout.   I will need to work on the fit of the Bose's, I kind of wish they were a bit smaller but when they were in they felt pretty stable in my ears.  The case size doesn't bother me, I like how sturdy it feels and the solid feeling clip when its closed.


----------



## Luke Skywalker

clerkpalmer said:


> I don't think there is anything comparable to USB Audio Player over iOS.  That said, I think you can use a USB DAC like a dragonfly to stream hi res over an iPhone just like you would over Android but if you want EQ you may want to try a BT streamer like the Fiio BTR5 or the ES100.  Of course, iOS is limited to AAC which neuters those awesome devices.  This is part of the reason I've ditched iPhone for good until they up their game and incorporate LDAC.


Yeah that's why I got the iFi xDSD.  I use an Apple camera connection kit dongle to plug it into my iPhone 7 and then connect to it by my JH Lola's or Audeze LCD-2 on the balanced port.  It also supports Tidal MQA.  Sounds pretty awesome, although as you said there are no EQ capabilities.  the xDSD has a bass boost kind of thing and 3D audio, neither of  which I use.


----------



## clerkpalmer

Luke Skywalker said:


> Yeah that's why I got the iFi xDSD.  I use an Apple camera connection kit dongle to plug it into my iPhone 7 and then connect to it by my JH Lola's or Audeze LCD-2 on the balanced port.  It also supports Tidal MQA.  Sounds pretty awesome, although as you said there are no EQ capabilities.  the xDSD has a bass boost kind of thing and 3D audio, neither of  which I use.


Yeah it's a good solution for sure and I'm sure it sounds terrific.  I'm still staying away form Apple until they get real about Bluetooth.  AAC is fine I suppose but if I'm going to buy cans that support LDAC, it would make me angry knowing that my iphone is using AAC.  The fact that I can get an android phone for $100 on Swappa that supports LDAC but a $1400 iphone doesn't is maddening.  I'm sure 99.99% of IOS users don't care and Apple doesn't care about losing my business but it's pretty weak.  It's only a matter of time until LDAC makes its way into TWS as well.


----------



## webvan

Laethageal said:


> Seems like I have A1810xxxx.
> How do we figure out the version?


You have that printed on the side of the charging port protection on the second line ? Maybe it's a more recent version, when did you buy it ? I've got v2 and it's got a smidge of hiss.


----------



## Bhelpoori

Luke Skywalker said:


> I have both and I think the Bose sound a thousand times as good as the Sony.  I’ve tried every EQ Profile I can find on the forums, different tips.  with the bose... put them in your ears and enjoy


The Bose reviews have started:
Cnet:


pretty much agrees with what has been said in this forum so doesn’t add much new info but some of the size comparisons maybe useful.

I would like to see a comparison with the Nuarl N10pro though...


----------



## webvan

clerkpalmer said:


> FWIW:  https://www.cnet.com/news/bose-quie...-on-sound-and-noise-canceling-but-not-design/
> 
> Interesting comparison to the MTW2 in terms of SQ.


That guy talks a bit like "Jimmy from Jim's Review Room" !
OK review I suppose but completely missed out on the lack of ANC off for windy situations (isn't NT pretty windy ?) and just "drank the Kool Aid" on the useless "favorites"...


----------



## Mouseman

Bhelpoori said:


> The Bose reviews have started:
> Cnet:
> 
> 
> ...



Wow - those look XL. I've not seen any hang out the front of the ear like that.


----------



## Swy05

Anyone have a long-term review of the Fiil T1X?

I've been eyeing this for a while and it seems highly recommended.

However on Amazon, there are so many negative reviews of buds dying prematurely and overall QC issues.


----------



## SilverEars

Mouseman said:


> Wow - those look XL. I've not seen any hang out the front of the ear like that.


I know it's big, don't appreciate the bulky look myself. I still prefer the formfactor of the APP.  I hope they work on getting it smaller with same performance or better for next iterations to come.

One aspect I like about the APP is the stem you can turn the transparency mode on/off.  I have no idea how to do it with the Bose.


----------



## Laethageal (Oct 7, 2020)

webvan said:


> You have that printed on the side of the charging port protection on the second line ? Maybe it's a more recent version, when did you buy it ? I've got v2 and it's got a smidge of hiss.


I've just got it from Amazon Canada yesterday.
The first time I opened the port, the numbers were already half invisible, but the box I received had no seal on it either, so maybe they shipped a return to me.
When I connected the app, it prompted me to upgrade firmware from 1.01 (if not mistaken) to 1.28

If I read correctly, the line on the USB-C cap shows something like this :

S/NAQJS5H
1A181XXXXX

And here on the box, Iteration 1, if that means anything.





Edit :
Just figured out that the app tells me the serial of the L2P. 390998XXXXXXXXXX


----------



## tma6

Also very curious about the Huawei Freebuds Pro. Getting really awesome reviews. Apparently the ANC is awesome, the sound quality is good, and the voice calls are excellent. Way more sleek than the Bose too. I might try to get my hands on em.


----------



## webvan

Laethageal said:


> I've just got it from Amazon Canada yesterday.
> The first time I opened the port, the numbers were already half invisible, but the box I received had no seal on it either, so maybe they shipped a return to me.
> When I connected the app, it prompted me to upgrade firmware from 1.01 (if not mistaken) to 1.28
> 
> ...



I pulled out my box and it also says "Iteration 1" although it's a v2 going by the serial number on the port, 1945x - not sure about that serial number the app is giving you !


----------



## Laethageal

webvan said:


> I pulled out my box and it also says "Iteration 1" although it's a v2 going by the serial number on the port, 1945x - not sure about that serial number the app is giving you !


Thank you everyone for checking.

Seems like I'll be better off waiting for a reply from Ankers support


----------



## clerkpalmer

SilverEars said:


> I know it's big, don't appreciate the bulky look myself. I still prefer the formfactor of the APP.  I hope they work on getting it smaller with same performance or better for next iterations to come.
> 
> One aspect I like about the APP is the stem you can turn the transparency mode on/off.  I have no idea how to do it with the Bose.



They are big but they don't look any worse than the Sony models or something like the L2P. I assume Bose did their best and the size was needed for the internals.  My Ananda look even more ridiculous  Doesn't bother me that much. A black APP would be the ideal form factor. Would sell like hotcakes.


----------



## Dobrescu George

I also made a video review about the Pamu Unique IEMs, with replaceable covers, IPX6 rating, 30 Hours of total battery life, and actuallyt a beautiful natural sound that impressed me a lot. The sound is warm and they actually have a much better sonic performance than the overall gimmicky design / concept makes them look like


----------



## SilverEars

Dobrescu George said:


> I also made a video review about the Pamu Unique IEMs, with replaceable covers, IPX6 rating, 30 Hours of total battery life, and actuallyt a beautiful natural sound that impressed me a lot. The sound is warm and they actually have a much better sonic performance than the overall gimmicky design / concept makes them look like


----------



## tgx78

Whenever new TRN products starting to tempt me to press a buy button, I have to stare at 3 broken TRN stuff on my desk to counter balance my desire.


----------



## Laethageal

tma6 said:


> Also very curious about the Huawei Freebuds Pro. Getting really awesome reviews. Apparently the ANC is awesome, the sound quality is good, and the voice calls are excellent. Way more sleek than the Bose too. I might try to get my hands on em.


You said 1 thing that turn me down. 
Huawei. 

No thank you!


----------



## chinmie

tgx78 said:


> Whenever new TRN products starting to tempt me to press a buy button, I have to stare at 3 broken TRN stuff on my desk to counter balance my desire.



darn... did it break when you're using it or when you were detaching the IEM from the cable?


----------



## clerkpalmer

Well anyone notice any gremlins in the Bose app? Tried my buds today after not using since Sunday. Left earbud is dead. App shows both earbuds fully charged at 100 at the same time the left one is dead. Hmmm. Hoping this is user error


----------



## tgx78

chinmie said:


> darn... did it break when you're using it or when you were detaching the IEM from the cable?



Broke off while detaching Shouer Tape.


----------



## hmscott

tgx78 said:


> Whenever new TRN products starting to tempt me to press a buy button, I have to stare at 3 broken TRN stuff on my desk to counter balance my desire.


Have you tried to get a refund from the seller, or start TRN RMA for repair?


----------



## tgx78 (Oct 7, 2020)

hmscott said:


> Have you tried to get a refund from the seller, or start TRN RMA for repair?



I did with two other TRN DOA items ( a cable and Bluetooth module) and found the RMA process totally useless. They asked me to take few long videos to prove that items were non functional and after I did all that they offered little discount on same products. Like WHAT?

So I pay for two items for one working product? What kind of math is this lol. I just stopped buying their stuff.


----------



## chinmie

tgx78 said:


> Broke off while detaching Shouer Tape.



i always detach mmcx by using my nails to pinch and pry the connecfor instead of pulling the cable, because i alway fear that the connector would have a stronger grip than the cable strength. using mmcx prying device like the Final audio assist would also helped. i personally never use it (my fingernails are sufficient  ) but my friends seems to like it




for the broken ones, you could save them by replacing the connectors or the cables also like what @assassin10000 did to his unit


----------



## hmscott

tgx78 said:


> I did with two other TRN DOA items ( a cable and Bluetooth module) and found the RMA process totally useless. They asked me to take few long videos to prove that items were non functional and after I did all that they offered little discount on same products. Like WHAT?


Yipe!, that's no good.  Too bad, I was thinking of trying that TRN BT20s... from Linsoul I think, yup - perhaps Linsoul or your seller can help?


----------



## tgx78 (Oct 7, 2020)

chinmie said:


> i always detach mmcx by using my nails to pinch and pry the connecfor instead of pulling the cable, because i alway fear that the connector would have a stronger grip than the cable strength. using mmcx prying device like the Final audio assist would also helped. i personally never use it (my fingernails are sufficient  ) but my friends seems to like it
> 
> 
> 
> for the broken ones, you could save them by replacing the connectors or the cables also like what @assassin10000 did to his unit



I didn’t pull the cable. I was pinching between the connectors and TRN side separated. You are looking at the picture after I tried to re solder new mmcx connector I bought.
Wish I had that mmcx tool tho.


----------



## eiraku (Oct 7, 2020)

Swy05 said:


> Anyone have a long-term review of the Fiil T1X?
> 
> I've been eyeing this for a while and it seems highly recommended.
> 
> However on Amazon, there are so many negative reviews of buds dying prematurely and overall QC issues.



I think you're better off with the 1XS at this point? It's smaller and newer, and I think the in-App "prompt language change" thing only applies for the T1XS (correct me if I'm wrong - the T1X was sold in Chinese and English prompt versions AFAIK).

That said, I it does look like the older T1X comes with a sturdier case tho (the T1XS one is rather flimsy).


----------



## georgelai57

eiraku said:


> I think you're better off with the 1XS at this point? It's smaller and newer, and I think the in-App "prompt language change" thing only applies for the T1XS (correct me if I'm wrong - the T1X was sold in Chinese and English prompt versions AFAIK).
> 
> That said, I it does look like the older T1X comes with a sturdier case tho (the T1XS one is rather flimsy).


The T1XS auto pause was too sensitive for me but that could be a function of my ears. It’d occasionally pause when I opened my mouth. 

i notice as well that if you use the largest wing tips they provide, it’s a struggle to put that into the case.

I’ll stick with my T1X.


----------



## eiraku (Oct 8, 2020)

georgelai57 said:


> The T1XS auto pause was too sensitive for me but that could be a function of my ears. It’d occasionally pause when I opened my mouth.
> 
> i notice as well that if you use the largest wing tips they provide, it’s a struggle to put that into the case.
> 
> I’ll stick with my T1X.



You can literally turn that function off TBH (mine is off because if one bud is out it's going into the case anyway). Haven't noticed the wingtip issue, but I'm still on the default sized ones (+ Sony Hyb tips however).

Also XS has monitor mode which can be kinda useful (sometimes?). But that is a pretty subjective pro.

But the lid not being spring loaded? Now that's a pretty obvious con on the XS (at least until I got used to it). I wonder if the X case had a spring loaded lid.


----------



## georgelai57

eiraku said:


> You can literally turn that function off TBH (mine is off because if one bud is out it's going into the case anyway). Haven't noticed the wingtip issue, but I'm still on the default sized ones (+ Sony Hyb tips however).
> 
> Also XS has monitor mode which can be kinda useful (sometimes?). But that is a pretty subjective pro.
> 
> But the lid not being spring loaded? Now that's a pretty obvious con on the XS (at least until I got used to it). I wonder if the X case had a spring loaded lid.


It is spring loaded but is not particularly strong.


----------



## Dobrescu George

tgx78 said:


> Whenever new TRN products starting to tempt me to press a buy button, I have to stare at 3 broken TRN stuff on my desk to counter balance my desire.



Ahahaha  

RELATABLE


----------



## assassin10000

I've been fortunate as far as QC goes. 2 of 4 TRN products died but due to my error, not TRN's.

One pair BT20 went through the wash and killed the batteries. The other was a pair of BT20S that I tried to rotate the connector around 180°, the bent end of the spring wire that is about 2mm long caught and broke a wire inside.


----------



## C_Lindbergh (Oct 8, 2020)

What, so the the Huawei FreeBuds Pro supports dual device connection? I'll seriously consider them then.

edit: They don't support APTX, so the dual connection feature is basically useless if you wanted to pair them with a PC, SBC is just too awful.


----------



## jant71 (Oct 8, 2020)

Audio-Technica are back to get it right this time?  New ANC model...




https://www.translatetheweb.com/?ref=TVert&from=&to=en&a=https://www.audio-technica.co.jp/product/ATH-CKR70TW#

A new sport model...








https://www.translatetheweb.com/?ref=TVert&from=&to=en&a=https://www.audio-technica.co.jp/product/ATH-SPORT5TW

and a new budget model...






https://www.translatetheweb.com/?ref=TVert&from=&to=en&a=https://www.audio-technica.co.jp/product/ATH-SQ1TW


----------



## Caipirina

This evening I am having some fun switching between the Sony WF1000x and the Sony WF1000xm3 and both sound lovely, the original holding up well (besides the ANC ... and probably battery life) but it made me wonder: 
Whatever happened to xm2?


----------



## clerkpalmer

Hifiman trying again: https://parttimeaudiophile.com/2020...-amplifiers-and-audiophile-grade-drivers/amp/


----------



## marcus2704

Well I have sent my Bose earphones back off the back of the 90 day trial.  My feeling is that the sound quality of the Jabra 75Ts is more to my taste.  The main reasons I returned the Bose's is that the vocals are less spacious and lack the soundstage of the Jabras, and there is a notable drop in the lower end in comparison also.  I am personally not a huge fan of the relatively large design either.  Given that the Jabras are due to get a noise cancel feature via firmware soon, there was just no compelling reason to keep the Bose's especially at double the price.


----------



## Sam L (Oct 8, 2020)

I've been away from this thread for awhile, spending a good deal of time creating an earbuds target curve and generating compensation files to make buds more listenable to my ears.

It seems that there could be a similar need with tws earphones. Not so much in experimenting with a new target curve but using wavelet to refine (or salvage) the audio quality. I'm at a place where I have to limit my purchases (jobless), so I've chosen to put some energy into improving what I have.

*Tweaking the Haylou GT1*

The inventory of wavelet profiles are based on Harman 2019 v.2 iem target, which I find to be a bit too bright due to an aggressive pinna gain and a bit too much treble from 3khz and beyond. For this reason, I favor oratory1990 target.



The stock tuning of the Haylou GT1 has too much bass bloat to my ears. If you find my correction too bass light, the "bass tuner" in wavelet is excellent. Not only does it target bass FR well, there are also 3 filters that are effective.

If you try it out, let me know what you think.


----------



## Sam L (Oct 8, 2020)

I'll probably make wavelet files with oratory target for:
- fiil t1x
- sony xm3
- apple air pod pros
- mifo 05
- jabra 65t

If anyone lives in the SF Bay Area and has a bunch of TWS', I'd love to measure some more models if the graphs are not on the internet already and make wavelet files. Private message me if you're interested!


----------



## Sam L

Oh, one more thing, if you use my wavelet file, start it at 70% eq strength and go from there to your personal tastes


----------



## jant71

clerkpalmer said:


> Hifiman trying again: https://parttimeaudiophile.com/2020...-amplifiers-and-audiophile-grade-drivers/amp/



Yep, when I saw that case I said what are they thinking. That is gonna get messed up and quick probably. Not thinking of them as a portable and something you are taking around with you in pockets and bags/backpacks or whatever. For $300 they only do one thing really and that is sound good cause really no features. So they better do that one job very well. Of course the Hifiman stuff drops really low after a while so they will be $99 if you wait long enough. The first set went down to $69 I think as well as other $300 earphones eventually going to $49. You know you can wait them out since people will have other sets for ANC, ambient, and all the other features.


----------



## Cerebro

Can anyone with the Fiil T1 Pro help me with this question I have? I read the ANC can’t be completely turned off, is that true? I ask because I’d like to (also) listen to them while riding my bike and I heard ANC can turn the wind into awful sounds.

Also, I’ve been using the Fiil T1X for a while and have some issues with them sounding muffled when not inserting them in exactly the right way (tip rolled them for a long time). When I wear them when running, sometimes it’s even impossible to get a good fit and i need to turn the volume up to max to hear anything. Maybe this is driver flex? Was wondering if anyone had this with the T1 pros.


----------



## clerkpalmer

jant71 said:


> Yep, when I saw that case I said what are they thinking. That is gonna get messed up and quick probably. Not thinking of them as a portable and something you are taking around with you in pockets and bags/backpacks or whatever. For $300 they only do one thing really and that is sound good cause really no features. So they better do that one job very well. Of course the Hifiman stuff drops really low after a while so they will be $99 if you wait long enough. The first set went down to $69 I think as well as other $300 earphones eventually going to $49. You know you can wait them out since people will have other sets for ANC, ambient, and all the other features.



The first versions - which I never personally heard - were a colossal failure.  Everyone hated the way they sounded.  I like Hifiman and hope that these do what they say and that is sound excellent.  I'd love to check these out but I think I'll wait for some reviews.  Agree that these are way overpriced.  They'd have to sound REALLY good to beat out the MTW2/MW07 at the same price point given the superior design and onboard ANC.  I was hoping they might be the first to solve the LDAC problem in TWS but I guess not yet.  Must be something with the size of the LDAC chip or the battery usage that is prohibiting it from going TWS.  Or maybe Sony is holding out to be the first.


----------



## MadMike

Technics/Panasonic updated firmware for EAH-AZ70/RZ-S500W to improve the Ambient Sound Mode:  https://www.panasonic.com/ph/consum...ll/true-wireless-earbuds-firmware-update.html
Definitely reduced the white noise hiss and seems to have improved the clarity of the Ambient Sound Mode, which I wasn't all that impressed with on the Panny's. Still some white noise with no music playing but not noticeable while music is playing.


----------



## d3myz (Oct 8, 2020)

Hey @regancipher and @dwells. I just got my T1 XS today. Well, other than my HUGE disappointment that the ios app thinks they are T1Xs' the sound incredible. I too had to turn on Easy mode just to get the volume controls to work. So strange.  Here's the but, I have mine all the way turned up on my XS MAX and they don't get even close to as loud as my T1x's. Have you guys noticed this? Did I get a bad pair? I actually mistook them fro the T1 Pro, so I may return them and get those from Ali. They def. sound better than the T1X.

Edit: I'm an idiot. I had Reduce Loud Sound enabled in ios. I turned it off and it made everything sound terrible, like distorted. I exited spotify, disconnected/reconnected and WHOA!! I guess it was limiting my low end as well, because WOW, these things are singing now!


----------



## d3myz

dj24 said:


> I'm starting to notice issues with my Tranya M10 as well..
> 
> Have you had any connection issues with VOIP calls on zoom etc on your Tranya M10?  My calls have been dropping and losing connection on my 4.2 bluetooth capable laptop even when I'm right next to it.  I've also experienced the "thump" effect on calls when yesterday the other party on the call out of the blue asked if I was wearing flip flops (which I was )


Yea, there is def. some footfall noise. Haven't noticed any issues with Zoom or phone calls, but they don't sound that good and the on board voice sounds like it's from 2001. LOL. They are going back.


----------



## Francesco Montanari

Cerebro said:


> Can anyone with the Fiil T1 Pro help me with this question I have? I read the ANC can’t be completely turned off, is that true? I ask because I’d like to (also) listen to them while riding my bike and I heard ANC can turn the wind into awful sounds.
> 
> Also, I’ve been using the Fiil T1X for a while and have some issues with them sounding muffled when not inserting them in exactly the right way (tip rolled them for a long time). When I wear them when running, sometimes it’s even impossible to get a good fit and i need to turn the volume up to max to hear anything. Maybe this is driver flex? Was wondering if anyone had this with the T1 pros.


You can disable it. There are three modes Anc on - off - ambient mode on.

See the screen (maf voice)


----------



## eiraku (Oct 8, 2020)

Cerebro said:


> Can anyone with the Fiil T1 Pro help me with this question I have? I read the ANC can’t be completely turned off, is that true? I ask because I’d like to (also) listen to them while riding my bike and I heard ANC can turn the wind into awful sounds.
> 
> Also, I’ve been using the Fiil T1X for a while and have some issues with them sounding muffled when not inserting them in exactly the right way (tip rolled them for a long time). When I wear them when running, sometimes it’s even impossible to get a good fit and i need to turn the volume up to max to hear anything. Maybe this is driver flex? Was wondering if anyone had this with the T1 pros.



Rather than driver flex, that sounds more like issues with the eartip bore deforming, which does happen from time to time with tight fitting IEMs (usually when paired with tips with long-ish bores). Choosing a eartip that has a shorter bore (or one that is flexible like the bore of Spinfits) might help.


----------



## clerkpalmer (Oct 8, 2020)

Can anyone with Bose check for left side battery drain while not being used? For starters I think there is a bug in the app. The app says both buds are charged 100 percent ever though my samsung detects 10 or 20 percent. I know the samsung is right because my left bud died after a few minutes of use.

So I charged them last night and I unplugged this am. Used them for about 5 minutes tonight. When I put them in the case, the left bud started charging but the right bud showed full.  Definitely something going on here. With only 5 minutes of use they both should have showed a full charge or charged together. You can tell they are charging by the flashing light while seated in the case with the top open. Not feeling good about this for 279.  Seems like my left bud is draining in sleep mode.


----------



## SilverEars

Guys I use the Bose with Usb Audio Play Pro with Tidal, and it sounds better than through any other means.  Usb Audio Player Pro has a setting on there for bluetooth that makes it cleaner.  Not sure if it's that.


----------



## clerkpalmer

SilverEars said:


> Guys I use the Bose with Usb Audio Play Pro with Tidal, and it sounds better than through any other means.  Usb Audio Player Pro has a setting on there for bluetooth that makes it cleaner.  Not sure if it's that.


Cool. Never knew that. Presumably works with all bt sets.


----------



## Laethageal (Oct 8, 2020)

Sam L said:


> I've been away from this thread for awhile, spending a good deal of time creating an earbuds target curve and generating compensation files to make buds more listenable to my ears.
> 
> It seems that there could be a similar need with tws earphones. Not so much in experimenting with a new target curve but using wavelet to refine (or salvage) the audio quality. I'm at a place where I have to limit my purchases (jobless), so I've chosen to put some energy into improving what I have.
> 
> ...


I didn't know about wavelet but it is EXACTLY what everyone with more than 1 headphones needs. Automatic detection of the BT in use, auto switching to the right audio profile, great EQ. Neat.
I just tuned my P7 and L2P and man, they are shining now! I can keep the hearID which slightly fix the discrepancies between my left and right ear (tinnitus of different tone and strength in each as well as some hearing loss mostly in higher frequencies) while still be able to EQ the L2P afterward.

Thank you, you really made a difference in my listening. Wont go a day without it now!


----------



## Sam L

I cannot recommend the Edifier TWS 200

There's almost no saving these things with EQ. Not to mention there's a ton of distortion throughout the frequency response and you can hear the noise floor when no music is playing. *sigh*

I got them because they are supposed to have decent mics and I was curious. I think I'm done trying out things unless no fewer than 15 people say something has a good mic for calls.

Anyway, this wavelet compensation files makes things tolerable. If anyone has these and felt throwing them away, try the file out. If you use the PEQ file, be sure to set the preamp value to -7


----------



## Sam L

piece of junk...


----------



## dwells

d3myz said:


> Hey @regancipher and @dwells. I just got my T1 XS today. Well, other than my HUGE disappointment that the ios app thinks they are T1Xs' the sound incredible. I too had to turn on Easy mode just to get the volume controls to work. So strange.  Here's the but, I have mine all the way turned up on my XS MAX and they don't get even close to as loud as my T1x's. Have you guys noticed this? Did I get a bad pair? I actually mistook them fro the T1 Pro, so I may return them and get those from Ali. They def. sound better than the T1X.
> 
> Edit: I'm an idiot. I had Reduce Loud Sound enabled in ios. I turned it off and it made everything sound terrible, like distorted. I exited spotify, disconnected/reconnected and WHOA!! I guess it was limiting my low end as well, because WOW, these things are singing now!


Glad you got it resolved. I actually haven’t bothered with the app at all yet since they work fine out of the box. Figured I would just wait for the app to get official support for the XS before I downloaded it.

According to an email I got from someone at Fiil, the updated English app with XS support should be due out this month:


> By the way, the IOS version APP is updating now, and it will be released in late October, sorry for the inconvenience.


----------



## howdy

clerkpalmer said:


> Hifiman trying again: https://parttimeaudiophile.com/2020...-amplifiers-and-audiophile-grade-drivers/amp/


I hope they are better that the 1st iteration.  I would be excited to get these as I've had a liking for Hifiman as I've many of their products over the years. 
I also hope to keep seeing negative comments about Bose so I don't have to get those.


----------



## Cerebro

eiraku said:


> Rather than driver flex, that sounds more like issues with the eartip bore deforming, which does happen from time to time with tight fitting IEMs (usually when paired with tips with long-ish bores). Choosing a eartip that has a shorter bore (or one that is flexible like the bore of Spinfits) might help.


Thanks! Tried several spinfits and other tips but the problem with the TX remains. It seems that it locks up when I have a complete seal so I use smaller tips than I use with other inears. Maybe when I’m working out the ear canal tightens a little or the tip gets in further because of sweat? The passive noise reduction is mediocre because of the smaller tips I use but the sq is good enough so the T1 pros appeal to me. Hope the smaller size will make for a better fit.


----------



## Cerebro

Francesco Montanari said:


> You can disable it. There are three modes Anc on - off - ambient mode on.
> 
> See the screen (maf voice)


Thanks for pointing this out!


----------



## SilverEars (Oct 9, 2020)

clerkpalmer said:


> Hifiman trying again: https://parttimeaudiophile.com/2020...-amplifiers-and-audiophile-grade-drivers/amp/


Since Hifiman really messed up the tuning with the first one, need to earn our trust, and need to start with low low price.  And it's a big mistake to start with such high price with so many competitions around.  He needs to start with Chifi TWS prices and work his way up.  TWS industry has the big guns with the technology to stomp him, and even with this disadvantage, he prices his Chifi, scraped up parts iem way higher and messes up the tuning.  Not touching his stuff.

I mean just look at his DAPs.  They are from the 2000s yet he still wants to charge us like it's 2020.  His stuff should have 2000s prices. Lol


----------



## sarv

Unpopular opinion - I looking for a upgrade over my APP, but I actually really like the airpods stem style earbud. rather then bulky protruding designs.
Really wanted to go for apollo bold for that bass, but apparently ANC isn't as good.

Anyone got any recommendations for me, new audio- tecnica ATH-CKR70TW looks good, but will wait and see.


----------



## Laethageal

Anyone interested in some new TWS with 3 new patent? 
Devialet with their usual internak pressure chamber, now in TWS form. 
https://www.theverge.com/2020/10/9/21508888/devialet-gemini-wireless-earbuds-price-specs


----------



## marcus2704

I just received T5 II TRUE WIRELESS SPORT MCLAREN earphones, but have not had an opportunity to listen yet.  I would say that this packaging is amongst the best I have seen for any earphone, let alone a TW.  It looks and feels nothing but premium.   Cant wait to listen to these beauties later!


----------



## jshaevitz

Any thoughts on the recently announced Grado GT220?


----------



## Cretz42

Tronsmart Apollos are 20% off on Amazon USA.


----------



## AudioNoob (Oct 9, 2020)

I wanted to report that Tranya offers refunds only after positive Amazon reviews. Besides being against the rules on Amazon, I find it deeply unethical and have refused their offer. I wanted to note it here so that people take reviews of their earbuds with a grain of salt. I review for a wide range of companies from Tronsmart to Jabra and have always required that I receive the sample without any expectations about the nature or the content of the review. I make it clear that my review will likely be more specific than an influencer's, and while I cannot quantify claims of objectivity, that I will be honest.


----------



## SilverEars (Oct 9, 2020)

sarv said:


> Unpopular opinion - I looking for a upgrade over my APP, but I actually really like the airpods stem style earbud. rather then bulky protruding designs.
> Really wanted to go for apollo bold for that bass, but apparently ANC isn't as good.
> 
> Anyone got any recommendations for me, new audio- tecnica ATH-CKR70TW looks good, but will wait and see.


Unpopular?  Hardly.  APP are the best selling TWS.  Lots of bulky designs, and APP are distinguished from those bulky designs.

So, today did some jogging with Bose, and I ran into issues with the wings sliding off.  I guess the wings have collected enough oil from my ear, and with sweat on the surface on my ear, the bulky earpieces have much weight that's being tossed up and down, and falling off.  It's quite annoying.  This why I hate bulky TWS!

Samsung Galaxy buds form factor is just right for jogging.


----------



## hifi80sman

SilverEars said:


> Unpopular?  Hardly.  APP are the best selling TWS.  Lots of bulky designs, and APP are distinguished from those bulky designs.
> 
> So, today did some jogging with Bose, and I ran into issues with the wings sliding off.  I guess the wings have collected enough oil from my ear, and with sweat on the surface on my ear, the bulky earpieces have much weight that's being tossed up and down, and falling off.  It's quite annoying.  This why I hate bulky TWS!
> 
> Samsung Galaxy buds form factor is just right for jogging.


You need to learn to jog like a Gazelle!


----------



## SilverEars

hifi80sman said:


> You need to learn to jog like a Gazelle!


Lol.  Only if I was a gazelle with feather weight.  Minor issues with APP, and solved once slide in once on rare occasions.  Bose will pretty much fall off.  Once again, the bulk.


----------



## d3myz

AudioNoob said:


> I wanted to report that Tranya offers refunds only after positive Amazon reviews. Besides being against the rules on Amazon, I find it deeply unethical and have refused their offer. I wanted to note it here so that people take reviews of their earbuds with a grain of salt. I review for a wide range of companies from Tronsmart to Jabra and have always required that I receive the sample without any expectations about the nature or the content of the review. I make it clear that my review will likely be more specific than an influencer's, and while I cannot quantify claims of objectivity, that I will be honest.


Well said. It's really a shame. Tranya's offerings are pretty easy to sum up. They haven't put out a decent sounding pair of TWS' since the B530 R2. I pulled my T3's out yesterday and was just amazed by how much better sounding they are than the Rimor, T10 and M10.


----------



## hifi80sman

SilverEars said:


> Lol.  Only if I was a gazelle with feather weight.  Minor issues with APP, and solved once slide in once on rare occasions.  Bose will pretty much fall off.  Once again, the bulk.


Have you tried the Sport version?  It's a fair amount smaller and semi-open, so you'll have awareness whilst jogging.


----------



## SilverEars (Oct 9, 2020)

hifi80sman said:


> Have you tried the Sport version?  It's a fair amount smaller and semi-open, so you'll have awareness whilst jogging.


I do not require awareness where I jog.  I do appreciate ANC in any instances, including the gym.  It was real nice when I first put on APP at the gym.  I had no idea how loud my gym was until then.  Same for aircraft cabbins, but at a much excessive noise level (which is why quality ANC is important for flights).  ANC opened my eyes.


----------



## jant71 (Oct 9, 2020)

A heads up... I had pre-ordered the new Cleer Goal which was supposed to drop this week. I ordered at B&h but since they were closed for Jewish holiday till next week I checked with Cleer and they had them in and also give you 10% when you sign up with email. So, I saved $18 and got them for $89.99 shipped. Probably no difference in the time I'd get them if B&H would have shipped them out early next week but still saved some $$$. Of course I'll report back on how they do for the $90 but seems like a solid deal


----------



## d3myz

dwells said:


> Glad you got it resolved. I actually haven’t bothered with the app at all yet since they work fine out of the box. Figured I would just wait for the app to get official support for the XS before I downloaded it.
> 
> According to an email I got from someone at Fiil, the updated English app with XS support should be due out this month:



On the Apple app store, it says the T1XS update is coming  to the app before Oct. 31st.


----------



## webvan

I can't see the point of running with the Bose QC, they're bulky, expensive and "thumpy" of course...I was going to check that latter aspect for "science" but just a couple of strides produced that annoying and sound destroying "thump" so I put them down and grabbed the trusty X12.


----------



## Laethageal (Oct 9, 2020)

Can I ask those of you owning the Soundcore L2P some help to check something?

I received my L2P 3 days ago and after testing, figured they where too bass heavy (which was fixed with some tuning) and also had some sort of buzzing on some particular female voice as if the tweeter was faulty. I contacted Soundcore who asked me to detail the issue in detail, which I did. They came back to me saying that I had the latest version of the product and that the issue (after having their Quality engineer check my particular issue) is some vibrato and is considered normal with all their L2P, therefor not a defect.

Yet, the few replies I had here about my issue were negative, as in no one experienced hiss/buzz in their L2P.
Since they say everyone must have it, would a few of you please go a quick check on Spotify and tell me if they hear a slight buzz covering part of the female vocal? I experience it every time on the song Mad from Ayelle on Spotify, with the most obvious high pitched buzz going on between 30 to 45 seconds of the song. This is the one song they are supposed to have tested and have found some "normal" vibrato, yet I highly doubt none of you would have spotted this issue if it was really there on all their L2P.



Appart from this buzzing issue, the 20ish hours of burn in and EQ'ing with Wavelet really helped the L2P and they now shine to a point I think they outclass the best headphones I had (B&W P7). If the vibrato is common really to all L2P, I'll give up on it and return it, but if it is only my unit doing it as I suspect it, I'll ask for them to exchange it.


----------



## regancipher

Cerebro said:


> Thanks! Tried several spinfits and other tips but the problem with the TX remains. It seems that it locks up when I have a complete seal so I use smaller tips than I use with other inears. Maybe when I’m working out the ear canal tightens a little or the tip gets in further because of sweat? The passive noise reduction is mediocre because of the smaller tips I use but the sq is good enough so the T1 pros appeal to me. Hope the smaller size will make for a better fit.



I have had the same problem. See my review for why the design is just not very good.

After struggling along with a set of trimmed inairs, eventually I found my Tronsmart Apollo Bold small tips. They are perfect. They provide sufficient protection from the oval driver surrounds and are bulbous enough to fill your ear and also allow the charger case to shut. I'd pretty much given up on them until I found the tips from the Bold in the pocket of a jacket I hadn't worn in ages


----------



## Mouseman

AudioNoob said:


> I wanted to report that Tranya offers refunds only after positive Amazon reviews. Besides being against the rules on Amazon, I find it deeply unethical and have refused their offer. I wanted to note it here so that people take reviews of their earbuds with a grain of salt. I review for a wide range of companies from Tronsmart to Jabra and have always required that I receive the sample without any expectations about the nature or the content of the review. I make it clear that my review will likely be more specific than an influencer's, and while I cannot quantify claims of objectivity, that I will be honest.


I had the same experience a while back with the Rimors (which was never going to be a 5 star for me), and it's pretty much put me off their "testing" program. They've emailed me several times but I don't take them up on the offers. It's too bad since word of mouth is worth a lot, particularly here.


----------



## dj24

AudioNoob said:


> I wanted to report that Tranya offers refunds only after positive Amazon reviews. Besides being against the rules on Amazon, I find it deeply unethical and have refused their offer. I wanted to note it here so that people take reviews of their earbuds with a grain of salt. I review for a wide range of companies from Tronsmart to Jabra and have always required that I receive the sample without any expectations about the nature or the content of the review. I make it clear that my review will likely be more specific than an influencer's, and while I cannot quantify claims of objectivity, that I will be honest.



Were you trying to return the new Tranya M10 and if so what did you think about it?


----------



## clerkpalmer

SilverEars said:


> Guys I use the Bose with Usb Audio Play Pro with Tidal, and it sounds better than through any other means.  Usb Audio Player Pro has a setting on there for bluetooth that makes it cleaner.  Not sure if it's that.



Can you point us to the Bluetooth setting?


----------



## SilverEars

clerkpalmer said:


> Can you point us to the Bluetooth setting?


----------



## clerkpalmer

SilverEars said:


>


Thank you. There does to be some difference.


----------



## jmwant

Kinera's Upcoming TWS earbuds will have lots faceplate options, all of them hand-painted. I've been told it will have anc with three mics on each side for improvement noise cancellation.


----------



## Laethageal

jmwant said:


> Kinera's Upcoming TWS earbuds will have lots faceplate options, all of them hand-painted. I've been told it will have anc with three mics on each side for improvement noise cancellation.


The contest was over yesterday. Any idea when winners will be announced?


----------



## marcus2704

I am a lot happier with the Klipsch T5 II McLarenT5 II McLaren earphones than I was with the Bose QC's.   Aesthetically, I far prefer the look and design of the McLarens and as I mentioned earlier the whole package screams 'premium'.  More importantly, I love the sound, vocals are more spacious in particular and in terms of volume, the Klipsch are louder than any other TW earphones I have listened to which gives me much wanted headroom.  They are much less bulky and I get a more comfortable fit.  At similar price points, for me the Klipsch earphones are clear winners in every department.


----------



## AudioNoob

I'm getting clipping with wavelet (pixel 3a) on the jabra 75t even with a little bit of adjustment. The bundled correction is also bizarre. Does anyone here have measured corrections for these?


----------



## Cerebro

regancipher said:


> I have had the same problem. See my review for why the design is just not very good.
> 
> After struggling along with a set of trimmed inairs, eventually I found my Tronsmart Apollo Bold small tips. They are perfect. They provide sufficient protection from the oval driver surrounds and are bulbous enough to fill your ear and also allow the charger case to shut. I'd pretty much given up on them until I found the tips from the Bold in the pocket of a jacket I hadn't worn in ages



Ok, so you mean the T1 pros are even more difficult to get a good seal with than the TXS (which are similar in size to my TX)? That’s not really what is was looking for since I’m annoyed with the fit of the TX already  I don’t have the Bolds and am a bit turned off by the different opinions about its sound quality.


----------



## AudioNoob

Cerebro said:


> Ok, so you mean the T1 pros are even more difficult to get a good seal with than the TXS (which are similar in size to my TX)? That’s not really what is was looking for since I’m annoyed with the fit of the TX already  I don’t have the Bolds and am a bit turned off by the different opinions about its sound quality.


Only if tronsmart could update their app with different eq presets, but they are being obstinate for some reason. I've been telling them for a month and everybody else has also said the same thing about bass. It is not rocket science to add a couple neutral presets to a qualcomm soc platform.


----------



## chinmie

AudioNoob said:


> Only if tronsmart could update their app with different eq presets, but they are being obstinate for some reason. I've been telling them for a month and everybody else has also said the same thing about bass. It is not rocket science to add a couple neutral presets to a qualcomm soc platform.



i gave input to Tronsmart here
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/nee...nctions-would-you-expect.942065/post-15907195

and the first two responds from a fellow headfier there are saying that the bass on the default setting is just right enough and shouldn't be changed... well i guess more people love big bass than old neutral head like me


----------



## clerkpalmer

marcus2704 said:


> I am a lot happier with the Klipsch T5 II McLarenT5 II McLaren earphones than I was with the Bose QC's.   Aesthetically, I far prefer the look and design of the McLarens and as I mentioned earlier the whole package screams 'premium'.  More importantly, I love the sound, vocals are more spacious in particular and in terms of volume, the Klipsch are louder than any other TW earphones I have listened to which gives me much wanted headroom.  They are much less bulky and I get a more comfortable fit.  At similar price points, for me the Klipsch earphones are clear winners in every department.


Interesting about the sound. I kind of wrote off Klipsh after the botched the release of the T5. No ANC at for that price is definitely a compromise. I kind of expect it at this point.


----------



## zerogun (Oct 10, 2020)

Laethageal said:


> Anyone interested in some new TWS with 3 new patent?
> Devialet with their usual internak pressure chamber, now in TWS form.
> https://www.theverge.com/2020/10/9/21508888/devialet-gemini-wireless-earbuds-price-specs



Was hoping that someone might've mentioned these as well. I've got my eyes on these, but there's seemingly little info about the specs, even on their website. Really interested in more info being revealed about this product.

***small update***
Just had a quick read and it appears the Gemini's only support the following codecs:

*Audio aptX, AAC, SBC Codecs with AVRCP, A2DP, HFP, HSP Bluetooth profiles*

More here


----------



## SilverEars

We discussed this plenty here, and AptX or AAC, there shouldn't be decernable difference in fidelity.  

Once we can get LDAC 990kbps with consistant signal connections with TWS, then we get get into if higher bandwidth makes a noticible difference.


----------



## Tooros

Hi All. I’ve read as much of this thread as I can. I’ve learned a lot. Mostly that my iPhone XS doesn’t support the best codecs. So not sure if it’s worth splashing out on the aptx hd type of tws. 
as a result I’m more than a little confused. 
TWS+ seems to offer the best connectivity (which if I understand is a twin connections to L+R as opposed to a single connnection to one bud and then a series connection from that to the other. Is that right?)
Is it worth me looking down the chain because of the iPhone’s lesser codecs?

there are so many options out there I’m lost. I really just want the occasional convenience of no wires as I use cables and dacs for desktop or more critical listening. Something to keep in my pocket for a quick YouTube vid or music/podcast without disturbing others around me. 
the tronsmart Apollo bold seem well liked but again. My iPhone doesn’t appear capable of getting the best out of them. The ugreen hitune, tozo t6 are all cheap as chips. Just no idea what will give me a useable option without going up to AirPods Pro and their ilk. Is there a long ranking list anywhere in true head-fi tradition?


----------



## clerkpalmer

Tooros said:


> Hi All. I’ve read as much of this thread as I can. I’ve learned a lot. Mostly that my iPhone XS doesn’t support the best codecs. So not sure if it’s worth splashing out on the aptx hd type of tws.
> as a result I’m more than a little confused.
> TWS+ seems to offer the best connectivity (which if I understand is a twin connections to L+R as opposed to a single connnection to one bud and then a series connection from that to the other. Is that right?)
> Is it worth me looking down the chain because of the iPhone’s lesser codecs?
> ...


Plenty of good options that will work just fine with an iphone. Just get something with AAC. Search here for tons of reviews at all price points. In short, no you do not need to spend 220 for a solid good sounding tws for your use case.


----------



## AudioNoob (Oct 10, 2020)

chinmie said:


> i gave input to Tronsmart here
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/nee...nctions-would-you-expect.942065/post-15907195
> 
> and the first two responds from a fellow headfier there are saying that the bass on the default setting is just right enough and shouldn't be changed... well i guess more people love big bass than old neutral head like me


Yeah there is always going to be people against change but I am not asking that they change the default, just that they make a non bassy neutral profile or a custom eq.




SilverEars said:


> We discussed this plenty here, and AptX or AAC, there shouldn't be decernable difference in fidelity.
> 
> Once we can get LDAC 990kbps with consistant signal connections with TWS, then we get get into if higher bandwidth makes a noticible difference.



Except AAC is not standardized and many Android phones have sharp fall offs in higher frequencies, not to mention the resonant noise that can come up in intervals around 150hz, 1000hz and then again after 6000k or so due to the psycho acoustic compression model it uses. On the other hand, if you have an apple device, AAC is perfect.


----------



## SilverEars

AudioNoob said:


> Except AAC is not standardized and many Android phones have sharp fall offs in higher frequencies, not to mention the resonant noise that can come up in intervals around 150hz, 1000hz and then again after 6000k or so due to the psycho acoustic compression model it uses.


Any proof on this or explanations out there?  Can you show me the roll-off?  Also, the difference of roll-off between AptX and AAC?


----------



## AudioNoob

SilverEars said:


> Any proof on this or explanations out there?  Can you show me the roll-off?  Also, the difference of roll-off between AptX and AAC?


https://www.soundguys.com/the-ultimate-guide-to-bluetooth-headphones-aac-20296/


----------



## SilverEars (Oct 10, 2020)

AudioNoob said:


> https://www.soundguys.com/the-ultimate-guide-to-bluetooth-headphones-aac-20296/


Interesting.  I wasn't are of this.  It says this in terms of roll-off. "The Huawei P20 Pro performs the worst, with a roll-off occurring at an stunningly-low 14.2kHz—very much still with the range of most people’s hearing. The LG V30 performs marginally better by rolling off at 16kHz, followed by the Samsung Galaxy Note 8 at 17kHz."

The factor of how wide your range of hearing and if the recording has higher frequency information is anther matter.  What matters seems to be up to 10k, and so called high res really concerns with how high of frequencies the information is contained.  This information depends on if the high frequency information actually matters. 

I guess different devices have different sampling frequencies of AAC.  I thought it would be the same, but it's apparently not.  the question is, is AptX better or not.  If AptX varies accross as well, that doesn't say much about differences besides AAC works better on iphones.


----------



## AudioNoob

I believe aptx is chipset dependent, and so all use whatever they get from qualcomm


----------



## d3myz

AudioNoob said:


> Only if tronsmart could update their app with different eq presets, but they are being obstinate for some reason. I've been telling them for a month and everybody else has also said the same thing about bass. It is not rocket science to add a couple neutral presets to a qualcomm soc platform.


I hear you there. I don't even use mine anymore because the presets sound so bad. Typically I can listen to audiobooks on anything, but not the apollos. What a shame.


----------



## d3myz

So, i've been using the FIIL T1 XS for a couple days now and the Monitor mode has started clipping every 15-20 seconds, I'm hearing a balance shifting type effect as well. I've re-synced and factory reset multiple times, thinking I just got a bad pair. Anyone else experience anything similar?


----------



## FYLegend (Oct 10, 2020)

jant71 said:


> Audio-Technica are back to get it right this time?  New ANC model...


I feel like they're still sticking to that old "flagship-midrange-budget" model which is no longer viable with Chi-Fi/OEMs coming out with high-tier specs at lower prices. AT products are great with sound quality but they are a bit like Nintendo/Canon of audio brands being old-school in build-quality and features/specs. Would be nice to have something like the IM70/LS50's form factor. Sony may be a bit iffy in some departments, but there's a strong push for you to get their flagship products like the WF-1000XM3, as opposed to something midrange.



AudioNoob said:


> I wanted to report that Tranya offers refunds only after positive Amazon reviews. Besides being against the rules on Amazon, I find it deeply unethical and have refused their offer. I wanted to note it here so that people take reviews of their earbuds with a grain of salt. I review for a wide range of companies from Tronsmart to Jabra and have always required that I receive the sample without any expectations about the nature or the content of the review. I make it clear that my review will likely be more specific than an influencer's, and while I cannot quantify claims of objectivity, that I will be honest.


I read somewhere that while the seller may be liable if caught, there is a loophole in the ToS such that customers can't and won't be held liable. On Amazon.ca many sellers also don't list themselves as a brand but something more ambiguous - they're not grey market but might seem like it at first. It's more sketchy if they ask for your Paypal rather than refund you right away. When I opened my TT 94, I was given a 15$ gift card for Tao******* (it actually says this on the gift card like they want you to think it's a grey market product!) under the condition I give a 5-star review. I do commend them for shipping replacements fast, while Tronsmart insisted I send back a product via Aliexpress before I could get a replacement.

Regardless, it is the end product that matters to me. Bigger brands like Samsung and Jabra still play coy with inherent defects or QC issues in their products. The Soundcore Liberty 2 Pro "hiss" controversy stopped me from getting them and the anticipation that newer earbuds will have ambient sound at the same price point. There are issues that 90% of customers will not notice or find the end of the world and brands will play coy over them.


----------



## gocam

Anyone else her trying out the Hiby WH3 ? -one of the more interesting pairs I've listened to - they have an app that allows one to tune the crossover ( https://store.hiby.com/products/hiby-wh3 ) - midway between the default Hybrid and Balanced for me makes for a great compromise - good soundstage, outstanding isolation and fit once I flipped the stock tips for spinfits. No fatigue after listening for quite some time - they aren't the best looking headphones, but I am enjoying listening...


----------



## howdy

I was reading that the Jabra 85t has a 12mm driver vs. the 6mm driver in the 75t. Can't wait to see how these sound. May need to pick these up to even though I have the 75t elite. I think Jabra is really great product for their price point.


----------



## chinmie

d3myz said:


> I hear you there. I don't even use mine anymore because the presets sound so bad. Typically I can listen to audiobooks on anything, but not the apollos. What a shame.



did you update the firmware on your bold? the jazz and pop EQ preset reduced the bass to a more listenable level (at least for me). it's good enough for movies and YouTube, though i still cut the bass just a bit more with Wavelet for listening to music


----------



## Luke Skywalker

So after a week or so with the Bose... I love them!  I took a 4 hour road trip on a noisy car And  only heard the classical music I was playing. I literally took a nap in a room with a 3 year old using the thunderstorm sounds on the iOS Brainwave app...

however I came across a  situation where the lack of volume control was a problem. I paired them easily to my fire stick to watch a late night movie but the sound was too quiet.  But the fire stick remote doesn’t adjust the volume on Bluetooth buds. Without a way to control it from the buds, there was literally no way to change it. couldn’t use the iOS app either because you can only connect to one device at a time

fortunately I had my nuarl N6P’s with me too so it was all good but otherwise i would’ve been out of luck!


----------



## AudioNoob

chinmie said:


> did you update the firmware on your bold? the jazz and pop EQ preset reduced the bass to a more listenable level (at least for me). it's good enough for movies and YouTube, though i still cut the bass just a bit more with Wavelet for listening to music


They also make vocals sound underwater


----------



## AudioNoob

So I went testing AAC, SBC and AptX and had some surprising results with the Apollo bold. Could anyone double check? I'm on a pixel 3a

Reference 

Firstly, AAC cuts off at 16.5khz on multiple earphones, so you won't hear anything before then 

With SBC, I have clean reproduction from 17.5khz down 

With aptx, there seems to be an issue with the Apollo. They make a hissy noise starting between 20 and 19khz all the way down to 8k. I double checked with a tone generator


----------



## FYLegend (Oct 11, 2020)

AudioNoob said:


> So I went testing AAC, SBC and AptX and had some surprising results with the Apollo bold. Could anyone double check? I'm on a pixel 3a
> 
> Reference
> 
> ...



Well I feel like AptX decoding can be unreliable at times. My Dyplay Urban Traveller 2 over-ear ANC exhibits a crackling sound with certain "busy" tracks when using AptX but not with SBC or AAC. I thought this was the fault of the headphones, but later noticed that my much older 1More MK802 had the exact same problem with AptX on Windows 10 and my Galaxy Note 9. For whatever reason, AptX on the Sony Xperia Z5 does not exhibit this problem.

I've had less issues with TWS that use QCC3020, but the floor noise of Tronsmart Onyx Neo is quite high compared to the Sabbat E12 Ultra (which is still somewhat noticeable).

I remember doing some frequency sweeps on Audiocheck.net for various TWS - with SBC there is an odd echo effect after playing frequency sweeps from the files on the site, but not with AAC. It's been a while since I've done this test though. I just did some tests on the Taotronics 94 - with SBC, the bass shaker test has a high pitched hiss/rattle that accompanies the low frequencies, but this is absent when using AAC. I've yet to notice it on actual songs though.


----------



## Bhelpoori

AudioNoob said:


> Except AAC is not standardized and many Android phones have sharp fall offs in higher frequencies, not to mention the resonant noise that can come up in intervals around 150hz, 1000hz and then again after 6000k or so due to the psycho acoustic compression model it uses. On the other hand, if you have an apple device, AAC is perfect.



AAC is heavily standardised by MPEG originally as ISO/IEC_13818-7:1997 _and non-proprietary, unlike LDAC or AptX. As I've said before on this forum, "AAC" is an acronym for a large number of audio compression tools that have evolved over many years. There's been a ton of work over many years to make sure there's interoperability between different encoders and decoders.

What SoundGuys are describing is an implementation specific issue rather than a codec problem. Indeed, the codec on Android comes from one of the originators of AAC,  Fraunhofer IIS and got a major update in Android 9 (Pie) so it should be comparable to Apple's. Indeed, the latest version of AAC has only be just released on iOS but has been on Android via Fraunhofer for some time. Note: The Fraunhofer codec  is free but doesn't contain a grant of patents so some vendors don't like it.

Android has lots of flexibility about how you do things which means that several parties in the chain between your player and the output, which is described well by Soundguys, which makes for an inconsistent experience over Apple which controls everything. You'll notice the Huawei issues are to do with power management and not the codec at all...

Finally, codec issues often show up as Bluetooth radio issues. Apple tends to be really good at radio stuff making the Bluetooth max out at 256Kbps to it's stuff whereas Android/random TWS can be in the 192-224 kbps range.


----------



## SilverEars (Oct 11, 2020)

Bhelpoori said:


> AAC is heavily standardised by MPEG originally as ISO/IEC_13818-7:1997 _and non-proprietary, unlike LDAC or AptX. As I've said before on this forum, "AAC" is an acronym for a large number of audio compression tools that have evolved over many years. There's been a ton of work over many years to make sure there's interoperability between different encoders and decoders.
> 
> What SoundGuys are describing is an implementation specific issue rather than a codec problem. Indeed, the codec on Android comes from one of the originators of AAC,  Fraunhofer IIS and got a major update in Android 9 (Pie) so it should be comparable to Apple's. Indeed, the latest version of AAC has only be just released on iOS but has been on Android via Fraunhofer for some time. Note: The Fraunhofer codec  is free but doesn't contain a grant of patents so some vendors don't like it.
> 
> ...


So, you're saying the issues arises from the receiver/transmitter end?  I'm wondering if Samsung has the best transmitter/receiver on the Android side?  Their test shows that Galaxy Note has the furthest bandwidth.

But, then again I have experienced odd tonality changes from signal disruptions.  Which is what I hate about TWS.  I assume this is related to what we're talking about here.

I wonder if the test of the BT performance was done multiple times, would it show sometimes the bandwidth getting further extended even with Chinese phone if tested enough times?

Anybody seen articles like this that test BT performance of phones related to audio?  I'm wondering which device had the most stable connection performance and the widest bandwidth?

I really don't understand why companies that send cellular level bandwidth signals cannot keep such low sampling frequencies under control?


----------



## AudioNoob

Bhelpoori said:


> AAC is heavily standardised by MPEG originally as ISO/IEC_13818-7:1997 _and non-proprietary, unlike LDAC or AptX. As I've said before on this forum, "AAC" is an acronym for a large number of audio compression tools that have evolved over many years. There's been a ton of work over many years to make sure there's interoperability between different encoders and decoders.


I didn't mean to imply a codec issue (oh I see, someone talked about decoding above) but implementation as well.


----------



## Bhelpoori

SilverEars said:


> So, you're saying the issues arises from the receiver/transmitter end?  I'm wondering if Samsung has the best transmitter/receiver on the Android side?  Their test shows that Galaxy Note has the furthest bandwidth.
> 
> But, then again I have experienced odd tonality changes from signal disruptions.  Which is what I hate about TWS.  I assume this is related to what we're talking about here.
> 
> ...


Whilst I'd love to give you an answer, I can't... and true testing needs a lot of time and expensive equipment. It isn't just the transmitter (the phone) either, it depends on the receiver, location of both, radio environment and what is interfering with it. It is even more complex in TWS because you are often dealing with multiple radios perhaps at different frequencies (e.g. R to L earbud transmission separate from Bluetooth).


----------



## DigDub

New firmware update for buds live. Change log only mentions improved system stability.


----------



## SilverEars

DigDub said:


> New firmware update for buds live. Change log only mentions improved system stability.


I was quite disappointed with the sound of Live.  I should have known better with the form factor.  The bass sounded like when there's no seal, and rolls off like earbuds, but EQ'd to boost it.  ANC was disappointing as well.  I now realize Samsung cannot do ANC properly.  

I really do like the look of it and the formfactor.  If they can somehow cause a seal with it for better bass response, that would make it much better.  Bean shaped earphones will not work for sound.


----------



## DigDub

SilverEars said:


> I was quite disappointed with the sound of Live.  I should have known better with the form factor.  The bass sounded like when there's no seal, and rolls off like earbuds, but EQ'd to boost it.  ANC was disappointing as well.  I now realize Samsung cannot do ANC properly.
> 
> I really do like the look of it and the formfactor.  If they can somehow cause a seal with it for better bass response, that would make it much better.  Bean shaped earphones will not work for sound.


I can manage to fit the buds fairly deep in my ears, so the bass is pretty sufficient and ANC works somewhat ok given it's an open design. It does cut off majority of bus engine noise for example. It's one of my favorite buds now, even though they may not be the most detailed or audiophile grade. Great mids and non fatiguing sound which makes me hum and sing spontaneously. It doesn't protrude from my ears and are comfortable, they are the only pair of buds that I can fall asleep with.


----------



## Luke Skywalker (Oct 11, 2020)

Hmm... well this is annoying.  I’m riding in a noisy car listening to music and the sound on my Bose QC’s is unbalanced.  If I turn it up past a certain level, almost all of the sound comes out of tbe right side. At about 60% volume, it comes out roughly equally between left and right. Lower than 60% and the sound shifts to the left

Tested with Tidal, Qobuz, and Brainwave with iPhone 7.  My Nuarl N6P’s work perfectly right now so I don’t think it’s an issue with my phone 

anyone having issues like this?


----------



## AudioNoob

Bhelpoori said:


> Whilst I'd love to give you an answer, I can't... and true testing needs a lot of time and expensive equipment. It isn't just the transmitter (the phone) either, it depends on the receiver, location of both, radio environment and what is interfering with it. It is even more complex in TWS because you are often dealing with multiple radios perhaps at different frequencies (e.g. R to L earbud transmission separate from Bluetooth).


This is why Airoha MCsync(Sony) and qualcomm stereo plus helps a lot. The jabra 75t still uses one bud as a relay for example which makes the left bud have a drastically different reproduction and noise curve.


----------



## Luke Skywalker

Hmm... I have no idea why this fixed it but restarting my iphone fixed it. So weird


----------



## Kalli

Does it make sense to buy a TWS adapter for Tin Hifi T2+ IEMs?
And if yes, which one would you suggest?


----------



## jsmiller58

Kalli said:


> Does it make sense to buy a TWS adapter for Tin Hifi T2+ IEMs?
> And if yes, which one would you suggest?


I don’t have any adapters (closest to TWS that I currently do is Qudelix 5K or BTR5 with wired IEMs attached).  But whether it makes sense for you is all about your use case.  If wires get in the way, and you can find an adapter you like, why not?  T2 are nice IEMs and the adapters will be useful for other IEMs if you get more.


----------



## clerkpalmer

Luke Skywalker said:


> Hmm... well this is annoying.  I’m riding in a noisy car listening to music and the sound on my Bose QC’s is unbalanced.  If I turn it up past a certain level, almost all of the sound comes out of tbe right side. At about 60% volume, it comes out roughly equally between left and right. Lower than 60% and the sound shifts to the left
> 
> Tested with Tidal, Qobuz, and Brainwave with iPhone 7.  My Nuarl N6P’s work perfectly right now so I don’t think it’s an issue with my phone
> 
> anyone having issues like this?


That is annoying. I had noticeable imbalance with the SSF on several pairs. I'll check mine out although I'm afraid because once you find imbalance is hard to forget.


----------



## chinmie

Kalli said:


> Does it make sense to buy a TWS adapter for Tin Hifi T2+ IEMs?
> And if yes, which one would you suggest?



I'd say yes, because i also use my T2+ as TWS   
i use the TRN BT20S pro with my T2+


----------



## clerkpalmer

clerkpalmer said:


> That is annoying. I had noticeable imbalance with the SSF on several pairs. I'll check mine out although I'm afraid because once you find imbalance is hard to forget.


No imbalance detected on my Bose.


----------



## actorlife

dj24 said:


> I have been trying out the new Tranya M10 since I received it  2 days ago and have been very impressed to say the least.  They have somehow figured out how to make non stem buds with good call quality and with 4 mics in the latest version, the call quality is close to flawless.  If I have to nitpick, the only negative thing I've noticed is people's loud voices in the background/ tv can be heard somewhat by the other party on the line.  Even then it's really suppressed so isn't an issue at all and I believe this is the case for all other TWS earphones if I'm not mistaken.  I work on the phones all day and my Jabber VOIP calls have never sounded this good both ways easily beating out the Airpods pro and the Jabra 75T.  They lasted well over 9 hours and were still going before they went back in the charger earlier today.
> 
> I know this is subjective but I have found they fit my ears to a T due to their design and I'm getting excellent passive noise cancellation because of this.  Sound quality wise in the bass boost mode- the mids and highs are much clearer and well tamed compared to the previous T10 and reminiscent of the original B530.  Bass is punchy and well defined.  Normal mode is closer to neutral overall and sounds great with some of my jazz tracks and audiobooks.  Switching between the two is instant and I like the fact that they have physical buttons located on the top so they're very easy to get to without pushing the buds in.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the overview. I like that the M10 are not rolled off like the T10. So if you would pick for treble and bass would IT beat the 530s?


----------



## actorlife

vegetaleb said:


> And what about the Edifier X3?
> Is it better for electronic music?
> Do they stay put in your ears when doing sports?


Tranya T10 have a Bit roll off treble and bass is tight. I think you will like them.


----------



## Kalli

jsmiller58 said:


> I don’t have any adapters (closest to TWS that I currently do is Qudelix 5K or BTR5 with wired IEMs attached).  But whether it makes sense for you is all about your use case.  If wires get in the way, and you can find an adapter you like, why not?  T2 are nice IEMs and the adapters will be useful for other IEMs if you get more.


Just wondering, if there are same/better alternatives for the price.
60€ for the T2+ and 70€ for the TRN Bt20S Pro.



chinmie said:


> I'd say yes, because i also use my T2+ as TWS
> i use the TRN BT20S pro with my T2+


Hehe, seems legit.
Any chance you also thought about other adapters (iBasso CF01, TM2, Shure RMCE-TW1, ...)? And why did you decide on the TRN one?


----------



## chinmie

Kalli said:


> Just wondering, if there are same/better alternatives for the price.
> 60€ for the T2+ and 70€ for the TRN Bt20S Pro.
> 
> 
> ...



because it's the most reasonably priced as the whole package goes. i haven't tested the other ones myself, but from reports of my friends, the TM2 has similar noise level as the BT20S and uses the same chipset as the BT20S. case is too big and doesn't even have battery. 
the Shure didn't say the chipset, but i reckoned it uses the same qualcomm 3020/3040 as the TRN. from reviews it's buggy. 
ibasso seems nice, but priced higher, and the battery life is just not enough for my daily use. also only available in mmcx
the BT20S Pro has convenient charging case, ample battery life, low enough noise floor, and the connector can be easily swappable


----------



## Kalli

chinmie said:


> because it's the most reasonably priced as the whole package goes. i haven't tested the other ones myself, but from reports of my friends, the TM2 has similar noise level as the BT20S and uses the same chipset as the BT20S. case is too big and doesn't even have battery.
> the Shure didn't say the chipset, but i reckoned it uses the same qualcomm 3020/3040 as the TRN. from reviews it's buggy.
> ibasso seems nice, but priced higher, and the battery life is just not enough for my daily use. also only available in mmcx
> the BT20S Pro has convenient charging case, ample battery life, low enough noise floor, and the connector can be easily swappable


Thanks a lot for that info.
So the TRN seems to be quite nice. How bad is the noise floor with the T2+?

The Shure one had some early production unit issues but they are resolved. The reason I'm curious about those is the env mode.


----------



## martiniCZ

chinmie said:


> I'd say yes, because i also use my T2+ as TWS
> i use the TRN BT20S pro with my T2+





Kalli said:


> Thanks a lot for that info.
> So the TRN seems to be quite nice. How bad is the noise floor with the T2+?
> 
> The Shure one had some early production unit issues but they are resolved. The reason I'm curious about those is the env mode.


As long as BT20s Pro cost $ 60, it doesn't seem like the best solution. For a third of the price you can buy some BT upgrade cable on QCC3034/5125 with aptx HD support (if your phone also supports it) and with volume control. And if someone is bothered by the cable behind their neck, in time their BT module behind their ear on BT20s Pro will bother them too. I have a BT cable and sometimes I use it with my old T2. I don't have any problem with the sound, but for comfort I still prefer pure TWS. And for the price of BT20s pro, you can already get very good TWS. I don't mean that the BT20s Pro is bad, it's a great idea, but unfortunately they have no competition much yet.


----------



## Kalli

martiniCZ said:


> As long as BT20s Pro cost $ 60, it doesn't seem like the best solution. For a third of the price you can buy some BT upgrade cable on QCC3034/5125 with aptx HD support (if your phone also supports it) and with volume control. And if someone is bothered by the cable behind their neck, in time their BT module behind their ear on BT20s Pro will bother them too. I have a BT cable and sometimes I use it with my old T2. I don't have any problem with the sound, but for comfort I still prefer pure TWS. And for the price of BT20s pro, you can already get very good TWS. I don't mean that the BT20s Pro is bad, it's a great idea, but unfortunately they have no competition much yet.


Can you list some of the "BT upgrade cables" you mentioned, please?


----------



## martiniCZ

Kalli said:


> Can you list some of the "BT upgrade cables" you mentioned, please?


Cheap KZ (csr8675), DR-30 (qcc3034) or DR-50 (qcc5125)
For example:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/330...earchweb0_0,searchweb201602_,searchweb201603_
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/100...68#1000022185#1000066058#0_668#3468#15615#606


----------



## Rayners

LoryWiv said:


> Please let us know your impressions. I am interested in this TWS as well, although may wait till their new H1 is available for comparison.
> 
> Thanks, @Rayners!



Hello everyone !

So i've got the Soundpeats 3SE for more or less one week now, i am not used to do earphone reviews, my references are the wired Shozy Form 1.1 that i used for the past 2 years (i'm still using it with my computer) and the Redmi AirDots TWS i use for working out, so i am sorry if my review is quite subpar.

Build Quality : Very good, they feel solid and premium. The charging box is also good quality with a nice "rubbery" feeling.

Fit : The fit is good for me, passive isolation is very good, they don't fall out of my ears even when working out. Be aware of the "driver" bump, it can cause issues depending the form of your ear, for me it is good. The inclusion of Comply tips is a nice addition but i prefer rubber eartips, i will try soon SpinFits with them. The charging box fit hardly in my jean's 5th pocket.

Connectivity : I have used them only with my OnePlus 7T and it is very good, i have no audio lag except during games (as with all TWS) and i never lost connection.. AptX is a very nice addition. As i use my TWS for short bursts for the moment (max 1h - 1h30) i haven't evaluated the battery live, but it seems good, and the charging box hold good charge.

Sound : The sound is good, quite bassy and warm but detail is still present and midrange and treble aren't that recessed. The sound is less detailed and lively than my Shozy but way less muddier than the Redmi AirDots.

As a conclusion I am very satisfied with the Soundpeats 3SE. I paid 17€ with my voucher, but at 50€ it is still a great deal. Quality is there, and the sound is decent especially if you love warm headphones like me. Be aware of the fit that can be problematic depending of your ear type.

I still prefer the sound of my Shozy, but the convenience of TWS earphones will make them stay at home haha ! The 3SE are way better than the AirDots i used for working out before and i gave the AirDots to my brother.

Don't hesitate if you have questions !


----------



## marcus2704 (Oct 12, 2020)

erockg said:


> I bought both the McLaren and the standard zippo version.  Absolutely love them.  I'm returning the McLaren because both headphones and features are identical.  McLaren has extras, wingtips, huge waterproof case and charging pad that I don't need.  Sticking with the black standard version.  I personally love the fit, sound can be EQ'd, transparency mode is great.  I've used them on work calls and no issues.  I do like the fit better than the new Bose, which seem to be causing ear fatigue for me, but maybe the tips need breaking in.  Anyway, just my two cents.  I've posted pics on this thread of both Klipsch T5 II versions.



Do you find the rubber wings slide down the casing in use?   Amazingly, there appears to be no locking mechanism in place to prevent this happening which is a real concern.

/edit/ seems to be a well known problem - https://www.reddit.com/r/Klipsch/comments/itj489/klipsch_t5_ii_mclaren_review_thread/

Ill try without the tips for a while and see how that goes.


----------



## jant71 (Oct 12, 2020)

Aviot at it again. Took a good proven model and added ANC to it. I think what you want to see for that $119 price point. The 3040 with 5.2  and aptX adaptive, high battery life, ANC(with a balance focusing on keeping the sound unchanged), TWS Mirroring, 4 Knowles mics, color choices. Good for many I would suspect but some may want more than this mild noise cancelling though we don't know enough on it's performance just yet. https://www.translatetheweb.com/?ref=TVert&from=&to=en&a=https://aviot.jp/product/te-d01m


*AVIOT, the first Neucan fully wireless "TE-D01m". Unique "Mild ANC"*
Editor: Natsuki Kawada
October 12, 2020

Preseed Japan will launch the TE-D01m, a fully wireless earphone equipped with AVIOT's first active noise cancelling function, from mid-November. Reservations start at 18:00 on October 13, and the price is 12,500 yen (excluding tax) or $118.



"TE-D01m"

As AVIOT's first noise cancelling model, it is equipped with the mild ANC, a high-precision active noise cancelling function that has been realized through its unique know-how. In addition, the main body that was designed by thoroughly researching the ear shape of the Japanese again is small, excellent in fit and sound insulation, it is said to exhibit passive noise reduction effect.



The unique COMBINATION of the ANC function "Mild ANC" and the passive noise reduction effect minimizes the impact on sound quality.

In the mid-to-high range, "mild ANC" functions in low-frequency ranges such as passive noise isolation and airplane jet noise, there is "reducing noise in all bands while minimizing the impact on sound quality." It also has an ambient microphone function that can take in external sound.

It is equipped with Qualcomm's latest SoC "QCC3040". Combined with AVIOT's power-saving technology, it is possible to play continuously for up to 10 hours on its earphones alone and use up to 50 hours in combination with the case.

Bluetooth is version 5.2, and the supported profile is A2DP/HFP/HSP/AVRCP. In addition to SBC/AAC/aptX, codecs also support aptX Adaptive, which changes the transfer bitrate in real time depending on the congestion of radio waves and the amount of transmission data, maintaining sound quality and connection stability. In addition, this unit also supports multi-pairing up to 4 devices.

A newly designed thin-film antenna is adopted. It also features Qualcomm TrueWireless Mirroring, a new technology that enables high-quality left-right simultaneous connections with smartphones and music players, and achieves a stable connection with minimal sound loss through synergy.

Inside, it is equipped with a 6mm dynamic screwdriver. The earphone body is equipped with waterproof performance of IPX4, and the face plate part is equipped with a high sensitivity touch sensor. The color lineup is five colors of Cardinal Red, Ivory, Black, Navy, Pearl White.



Cardinal Red, Ivory, Black, Navy, Pearl White

The sensitivity is 93±3dB, and the impedance is 16 ohms. One USB Type-C cable is included in the accessory, and one pair of S/M/L sizes is included in the standard earpiece.


----------



## eiraku

Kalli said:


> Can you list some of the "BT upgrade cables" you mentioned, please?



Just from what I have, also the TRN BT3S but those don't have AptX HD. It DOES have a massive battery tho (15+ hours easily) but isn't even close to something you'd just "wear and forget"


----------



## dj24

actorlife said:


> Thanks for the overview. I like that the M10 are not rolled off like the T10. So if you would pick for treble and bass would IT beat the 530s?



I've never had the opportunity to try out the 530.  I know they were universally lauded in the past for being a more complete TWS.  The M10s for me are slightly rolled off but not as much as the T10s and this doesn't really bother me.  Saying that though my initial positive experience with the M10 has now slightly come down due to the fact that I'm having problems maintaining a stable connection with my Cisco Jabber VOIP connection for my work calls.  They seem to lose connection randomly with a 4.2 version bluetooth connected work laptop and I for the life of me cannot figure out why.  The other issue is comfort.  Even though I get excellent fit and seal, I seem to get slight pain and discomfort from the right earbud right around the 4 hour mark of my 8 hour work shift so because of these two reasons I've stopped using it and gone back to wired earbuds for my work calls. I still use it while jogging 3-4 days a week and It's been great for that never losing connection with my new Samsung galaxy note 20 ultra.  The IPX5 has held up so far but I'm not optimistic about that long term.

Overall, I'm conflicted..


----------



## erockg

marcus2704 said:


> Do you find the rubber wings slide down the casing in use?   Amazingly, there appears to be no locking mechanism in place to prevent this happening which is a real concern.
> 
> /edit/ seems to be a well known problem - https://www.reddit.com/r/Klipsch/comments/itj489/klipsch_t5_ii_mclaren_review_thread/
> 
> Ill try without the tips for a while and see how that goes.


I had the issue with the wings as well.  But the fit for me was better without the wings.  That said, I returned the McLaren version and kept the zippo version.  I didn't need the wings, charging pad etc. and decided to save a few bucks.  Still love them and use them every day.


----------



## d3myz (Oct 12, 2020)

actorlife said:


> Thanks for the overview. I like that the M10 are not rolled off like the T10. So if you would pick for treble and bass would IT beat the 530s?


The M10 def. has more bass than the B530, but it's doesn't compete in the highs. the M10 is still considerably veiled, not like the T10, but they have warm/dark sound in bass mode and a boosted mid sound in normal mode. If i had to compare, i'd say the T3 has has best of both worlds. The bass is similar to the M10 and highs like the B530, to me the T3 is still Tranya's best sounding product to date. If you like the 1more stylish, the M10 have a similar feel, with more bass and boosted mids. slightly less detail.


----------



## Luchyres (Oct 12, 2020)

Anyone have any hands-on experience with the Huawei Freebuds Pro? Or advice on where to buy for the USA? (Giztop is about all I've found).

I have short list of buds I want to try, but these are up there.

Huawei Freebuds Pro
Nuarl N10 Pro (still can't buy)
Nuarl N6 mini (still can't buy)
Fiil T1 Pro (interesting, but not sold on getting these)
Jabra Elite Active 85t (there *is going *to be an active version, yeah?)

If anyone has suggestions on where one can buy the first three, let me know! Thanks

Edit: I've placed an order with Giztop, will keep ya'll posted.


----------



## marcus2704

erockg said:


> I had the issue with the wings as well.  But the fit for me was better without the wings.  That said, I returned the McLaren version and kept the zippo version.  I didn't need the wings, charging pad etc. and decided to save a few bucks.  Still love them and use them every day.



I think I am likely to go without the wings too, with Medium tips the fit is pretty solid.   From reading various threads, it seems a lot of people complain that these are not loud enough.   I find it strange as I have tried a multitude of TW earphones and none go as loud as these.


----------



## tma6

Luchyres said:


> Anyone have any hands-on experience with the Huawei Freebuds Pro? Or advice on where to buy for the USA? (Giztop is about all I've found).
> 
> I have short list of buds I want to try, but these are up there.
> 
> ...



Ive been trying to figure out the same thing 😁


----------



## Cerebro

Could you help me figure out what TWSs I need to put on my shortlist? 

I’ve been following this thread and some bloggers (Scarbir among others) for a while but I’m still not sure what to buy. Maybe what I want isn’t available, but also I’m not really up to date on the more expensive models and brands. I’ve upgraded my budget. 

-Budget is max $220 but the TWS can be cheaper. 
-Great sound quality (not bass light but also no bloated bass monster: quality bass/treble with a good amount of sub bass).
-Comfortable fit with good passive noise reduction (no driver flex or painful ears from wear). 
-Great call quality with natural sounding voice, if possible also while riding my bicycle. 
-Controls for next/previous, volume up/down, play/pause, ambient mode. 
-AAC compatible (iPhone/Mac). 
-BT 5.0 or 5.2, if possible pairing to 2 devices, possibility to use only 1 earbud. 
-Good hear through/ambient mode. 
-ANC would be great, if possible also for higher frequencies, ANC can be turned off. 
-If possible an app to change controls and/or equalizer. 

I’m now using the Fiil T1X in normal or depending on music the bass preset. I’ve some trouble with getting a good fit every time even though I tried many different tips. 

I’ve considered:
-Fiil T1 pro (fit probably not as good as I’d like given my T1X and average but not great call quality)
-Apollo bold (soundquality maybe not good enough, call quality not great)
-Jabra 85t? (not out yet)
-Nuarl n10 pro? or n6 mini? (not out yet, n10 too big?)
-Panasonic?
-Technics?
-Bose QC700?

Any advice or tips you can give me? Any brands or models I might like?


----------



## Luchyres (Oct 12, 2020)

Cerebro said:


> Could you help me figure out what TWSs I need to put on my shortlist?
> 
> I’ve been following this thread and some bloggers (Scarbir among others) for a while but I’m still not sure what to buy. Maybe what I want isn’t available, but also I’m not really up to date on the more expensive models and brands. I’ve upgraded my budget.
> 
> ...



I'm a big Nuarl fan (N6 are my DD) and as I'm also looking at several on the list, I thought I'd give you a little more commentary on what I'm anticipating: 


Jabra 85T - biggest questions are: how do the new bigger, driver and semi-open design affect the sound?

Nuarl N10 Pro - these do look big. Sound will be amazing, biggest question is Call quality, ANC, and portability. Will likely be near budget limit. 

N6 mini - I suspect these will be better than the T1 Pro, but also not fantastic for calls, and not as good as the N6 as it will be lacking HDSS if I understand correctly... still interesting from a sports perspective. 

Huawei Freebuds Pro - look very, very interesting, especially with multi-point. However, they're more android oriented (no app currently). I'm still going to give them a go. 

I'm thinking you'll want to wait for the Jabra 85t and then decide between that and the Jabra 75t (which should be much cheaper). Or, I'd encourage you to look at the 75T now that they have ANC.

Anyway, just my :two_cents:


----------



## Laethageal

Cerebro said:


> Could you help me figure out what TWSs I need to put on my shortlist?
> 
> I’ve been following this thread and some bloggers (Scarbir among others) for a while but I’m still not sure what to buy. Maybe what I want isn’t available, but also I’m not really up to date on the more expensive models and brands. I’ve upgraded my budget.
> 
> ...


The Gemini claims to fill most of your request but it's not released yet to see how people like it


----------



## dwells

Cerebro said:


> I’m now using the Fiil T1X in normal or depending on music the bass preset. I’ve some trouble with getting a good fit every time even though I tried many different tips.
> 
> I’ve considered:
> -Fiil T1 pro (fit probably not as good as I’d like given my T1X and average but not great call quality)


it’s worth noting that the T1 Pro is actually a noticeably different form factor than the T1 X. The earbuds themselves are a cold deal smaller, which means there’s less to get in the way of the ear tip making a good fit.


----------



## hifi80sman

clerkpalmer said:


> No imbalance detected on my Bose.


None on either the QC earbuds or the Sport earbuds.  I've generally had good luck with Bose in terms of imbalance.


----------



## Cerebro

dwells said:


> it’s worth noting that the T1 Pro is actually a noticeably different form factor than the T1 X. The earbuds themselves are a cold deal smaller, which means there’s less to get in the way of the ear tip making a good fit.



Thanks! Yeah I read that but still people report having trouble getting a good fit with them. Since I’d have to order from AliExpress I probably can’t return them if the fit is not very good. Also call quality seems average. I’ll be using them for my work conference calls as well so I don’t think average is going to be enough.

Problem seems to be that good call quality and great SQ don’t often come together and if I can buy my way out of this problem by going more expensive on one set I’d rather not buy 2 different TWS and switch all day long.


----------



## meridius (Oct 13, 2020)

Hi all what would wireless IEM be like compared to a set of westone w4r ? as i am looking into replacing them for wireless and would any wireless IEM sound on par or better than the westone w4r

was looking at the
Sony WF-100XM3
Sennheiser Momentum True Wireless 2
Bose QuietComfort Noise Cancelling Earbuds

or any other suggestions as i am in no rush to buy just yet as i want to take my time and pick the right replacements

I think the Bose are the only ones that you cannot get comply foam tips for.

using these on iphone.

thanks


----------



## Laethageal

Cerebro said:


> Thanks! Yeah I read that but still people report having trouble getting a good fit with them. Since I’d have to order from AliExpress I probably can’t return them if the fit is not very good. Also call quality seems average. I’ll be using them for my work conference calls as well so I don’t think average is going to be enough.
> 
> Problem seems to be that good call quality and great SQ don’t often come together and if I can buy my way out of this problem by going more expensive on one set I’d rather not buy 2 different TWS and switch all day long.


I should be receiving the Edifier NB2 tomorrow. They are supposed to have great call quality, so I'll get back to you about my impression about SQ, comfort, etc... if you want.


----------



## baskingshark (Oct 13, 2020)

meridius said:


> Hi all what would wireless IEM be like compared to a set of westone w4r ? as i am looking into replacing them for wireless and would any wireless IEM sound on par or better than the westone w4r
> 
> was looking at the
> Sony WF-100XM3
> ...



Why don't u connect the westone W4R to a BT adapter like the TRN BT20, TRN BT20S, TRN BT20S Pro or iBasso CF01.
That way u can preserve the sound signature of your favourite IEM on the go. And even if the battery life or BT tech gets outdated, at least the IEM can be kept and reused.
The above options are from cheapest to most expensive, some have different waterproofing, BT codec ability and different battery life +/- charging case, so see what suits your needs.

So far I've used a few westones with the TRN BT20S and iBasso CF01, they sound quite close to the wired version, maybe there's some loss of dynamics and subbass/higher treble with these adapters, but the convenience they bring offsets these IMHO.

EDIT: TRN BT20S hisses with highly sensitive IEMs, probably the Westone 4R is one like this, so maybe consider another option than BT20S (read the new BT20S pro isn't as hissy, but I haven't tried it to confirm). TRN also has some QC issues, they are cheap, but best to buy from a place with a solid returns policy like Amazon.


----------



## Cerebro

Luchyres said:


> I'm a big Nuarl fan (N6 are my DD) and as I'm also looking at several on the list, I thought I'd give you a little more commentary on what I'm anticipating:
> 
> 
> Jabra 85T - biggest questions are: how do the new bigger, driver and semi-open design affect the sound?
> ...



Thanks! The Nuarls get pretty positive reviews but the n6 don’t seem to meet all my wishes. I hope the newer models do but as you said the size of the n10 pros seems to big to be comfortable. 

The Jabras I’m awaiting eagerly, the go on sale somewhere this month if I recall correctly. At least on call quality they should be excellent, hope the improved on SQ and offer good ANC. Aren’t the 75t considered bass cannons?

Huawei wasn’t a brand I was considering, but since you mentioned these I’ll look into them. I am far into the apple ecosystem so if they are better on android that may be a problem.


----------



## Cerebro

Laethageal said:


> The Gemini claims to fill most of your request but it's not released yet to see how people like it



Just looked into Devialet and the do seem very promising (and a bit expensive). They get released end of November which feels like an eternity away though


----------



## Cerebro

Laethageal said:


> I should be receiving the Edifier NB2 tomorrow. They are supposed to have great call quality, so I'll get back to you about my impression about SQ, comfort, etc... if you want.



Yeah I’m interested in your review. Heard they don’t do AAC?


----------



## Cerebro

Cerebro said:


> Could you help me figure out what TWSs I need to put on my shortlist?
> 
> I’ve been following this thread and some bloggers (Scarbir among others) for a while but I’m still not sure what to buy. Maybe what I want isn’t available, but also I’m not really up to date on the more expensive models and brands. I’ve upgraded my budget.
> 
> ...



Nothing good from Bose, Sony, Sennheiser, Technics, Panasonic, etc. that may fit my needs?


----------



## C_Lindbergh

Still no new TWS annoced with Bluetooth 5.2/LC3 codec etc? :/


----------



## Bhelpoori

C_Lindbergh said:


> Still no new TWS annoced with Bluetooth 5.2/LC3 codec etc? :/


We need to differentiate Bluetooth 5.2, which is the core specification of Bluetooth, and an "application level" specific such as LE Audio (of which one part is the LC3 codec). On this forum we care about LE Audio not just a version of Bluetooth and today only one specification of that has been publicly published (LC3 or low complexity communications codec) which was only about a month ago. I think we'll have to wait a while longer for LE Audio.

Given Bluetooth v5.2 was published on 31 Dec 2019, we're bound to see some hardware support it earlier than LE Audio.


----------



## meridius (Oct 13, 2020)

baskingshark said:


> Why don't u connect the westone W4R to a BT adapter like the TRN BT20, TRN BT20S, TRN BT20S Pro or iBasso CF01.
> That way u can preserve the sound signature of your favourite IEM on the go. And even if the battery life or BT tech gets outdated, at least the IEM can be kept and reused.
> The above options are from cheapest to most expensive, some have different waterproofing, BT codec ability and different battery life +/- charging case, so see what suits your needs.
> 
> ...



Hi did not even know you could get such devices, lol

I looked up some reviews and that of the new BT20S pro and they have some problems but i might give them ago not to sure what the difference is between the 0.75mm  0.78mm versions  ? is that the pin diameter as i am not to sure what the west one w4r are, 

what was the call quality like as well as i use this option

do these wireless add-on add some sort of ANR ?

also noticed that sure have a set out now as well called the aonic 215 true wireless.

digging a bigger hole here , lol


----------



## Kalli

meridius said:


> Hi did not even know you could get such devices, lol
> 
> I looked up some reviews and that of the new BT20S pro and they have some problems but i might give them ago not to sure what the difference is between the 0.75mm  0.78mm versions  ? is that the pin diameter as i am not to sure what the west one w4r are
> 
> ...


The problems with the TRN BT20S Pro are probably due to lacking quality control at TRN. That's sad, but we have to live with it.
I don't know what the difference between the 0.75 and 0.78 is since I'm pretty new to IEMs myself. But I would guess, that it is somehow important. 

With ANR you mean ANC? If so, then no. ANC is too complex and needs at least one mic near/inside the sound chamber. So it is not possible with wired IEMs + adapter.

Shure has the RMCE-TW1 which sells in combination with the Aonic 215, which is an SE215. It's not even relabeled I think. It's says SE215 on it if you unpack it as far as I know.
They also sell it without any IEM attached for a slight discount.

I'm also looking to buy either the TRN or the Shure. It's basically environment mode on the Shure vs no environment mode on the TRN. The Shure one isn't without problems as well. They fixed the problems from early units which got recalled and they're shipping again. But The product itself seems to feel like a "first try". I think they can fix a lot of problems via their upgradeable firmware, but that has to be done of course.


----------



## meridius

Kalli said:


> The problems with the TRN BT20S Pro are probably due to lacking quality control at TRN. That's sad, but we have to live with it.
> I don't know what the difference between the 0.75 and 0.78 is since I'm pretty new to IEMs myself. But I would guess, that it is somehow important.
> 
> With ANR you mean ANC? If so, then no. ANC is too complex and needs at least one mic near/inside the sound chamber. So it is not possible with wired IEMs + adapter.
> ...



I have to say it seems that i might have a couple more options like you get the TRN BT20s Pro or go full out and maybe get the  Shure Aonic 5 wireless versions but they are very costly (£619) so i might try the TRN first which are about £55

yep i meant ANC, lol   I have been doing some reading and the 0.75 & 0.78 is the pin diameter of the connector that fits the ear piece, the westone w4r are 0.78 i think, i hope


----------



## Kalli

meridius said:


> I have to say it seems that i might have a couple more options like you get the TRN BT20s Pro or go full out and maybe get the  Shure Aonic 5 wireless versions but they are very costly (£619) so i might try the TRN first which are about £55


Yes, you can purchase some IEMs from Shure with the TWS adapter. But it's basically a product itself and if you buy the combination you get a small discount.


----------



## baskingshark

meridius said:


> Hi did not even know you could get such devices, lol
> 
> I looked up some reviews and that of the new BT20S pro and they have some problems but i might give them ago not to sure what the difference is between the 0.75mm  0.78mm versions  ? is that the pin diameter as i am not to sure what the west one w4r are,
> 
> ...



The 0.75 mm and 0.78 mm cables can be used interchangably but i found that using a 0.78mm male cable/connector on a 0.75 mm female housing (on the iem) may loosen the pinhole overtime or cause the housing to crack.

I am not sure which diameter the westone 4r is though, maybe u might have to check your box.

The TRN BT20s pro has a lot of QC reports in the forums, but a lot of our friends here bought them without issues, so i guess it is really russian roulette. Best to buy it from a place with good returns policy like amazon, just in case.

The oldest TRN BT20 is rather cheap during sales at $20ish usd, it has less hiss than the BT20S, though it doesn't have waterproofing and has slightly worse battery life and i think no aptx (correct me if i am mistaken). But might be worth a punt for 20 bucks to see if u like the design and fit.


----------



## meridius

they seem to be 0.78mm as i been doing a search and all cables seem to come back that size

still dont know what to do as i am reading problems with one side and more white noise on one side to the other, supprised if these are the new 2nd version as the first versions seem to have the same problems.


----------



## BigZ12

New update for the Sennheiser Smart Control app.
They've introduced a "High-End Sound Tuning" feature for the MTW2.

My first impressions: Warmer sound, wider soundstage especially with voices/mids, no sibilance like with the newest firmware and sound just feels fuller.
I tested it very quick, but I think I prefer it mostly because of the fuller and warmer mids/highs.

What do you think?


----------



## dj24

Cerebro said:


> Thanks! Yeah I read that but still people report having trouble getting a good fit with them. Since I’d have to order from AliExpress I probably can’t return them if the fit is not very good. Also call quality seems average. I’ll be using them for my work conference calls as well so I don’t think average is going to be enough.
> 
> *Problem seems to be that good call quality and great SQ don’t often come together* *and if I can buy my way out of this problem by going more expensive on one set I’d rather not buy 2 different TWS and switch all day long.*




I'm in the same boat.  I keep looking and chasing after a TWS with good overall seal, comfort and SQ (doesn't have to be great although that would be cherry on top), excellent call quality since I'm on VOIP work calls 8-9 hours everyday so battery life also needs to last that long as well and finally an IPX7/67 rating or higher that can handle excessive sweating without failing.  For this I'm willing to pay top dollar (up to $400) if it meets all the criteria.  ANC, Multipoint and some of the other specs would ne nice but not absolutely necessary in my case.

At this point I'm starting to wonder if these guys want us to keep buying all their sets one at a time chasing these individual specs instead of including them.  As many companies there are in this space and more every day that announce their latest offerings, I keep getting underwhelmed and am starting to lose the excitement..


----------



## NeoExcel (Oct 13, 2020)

d3myz said:


> The M10 def. has more bass than the B530, but it's doesn't compete in the highs. the M10 is still considerably veiled, not like the T10, but they have warm/dark sound in bass mode and a boosted mid sound in normal mode. If i had to compare, i'd say the T3 has has best of both worlds. The bass is similar to the M10 and highs like the B530, to me the T3 is still Tranya's best sounding product to date. If you like the 1more stylish, the M10 have a similar feel, with more bass and boosted mids. slightly less detail.


I had both the m10's and the Fiil t1x(returned) and I found out something rather interesting after burning the both of them in. I found that at max volume on the m10's they actually kind of reach the treble and mid detail of the t1x but with more fullness(especially in bass boost mode). I used this app to burn them in over night https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=zerofour.burn_in I say give the m10s a quick listen at max volume on bass boost mode and you might end up surprised.
 Though If I had to be honest, I like the normal mode a bit better and am usually listening to the m10's on it.


----------



## logiatype

dj24 said:


> I'm in the same boat.  I keep looking and chasing after a TWS with good overall seal, comfort and SQ (doesn't have to be great although that would be cherry on top), excellent call quality since I'm on VOIP work calls 8-9 hours everyday so battery life also needs to last that long as well and finally an IPX7/67 rating or higher that can handle excessive sweating without failing.  For this I'm willing to pay top dollar (up to $400) if it meets all the criteria.  ANC, Multipoint and some of the other specs would ne nice but not absolutely necessary in my case.
> 
> At this point I'm starting to wonder if these guys want us to keep buying all their sets one at a time chasing these individual specs instead of including them.  As many companies there are in this space and more every day that announce their latest offerings, I keep getting underwhelmed and am starting to lose the excitement..



I don't think you can find a TWS with those specs. Especially the call quality. In an A/B test, bluetooth converters (ES100-like) and dongle mics (Jaybird X3-like) far outperform TWS in mic quality. No TWS does multipoint (it's why I use the ES100 for home-office and Jaybirds in the office). Maybe in 2021 with BT 5.2 (sans mic quality).


----------



## C_Lindbergh (Oct 13, 2020)

baskingshark said:


> The TRN BT20s pro has a lot of QC reports in the forums, but a lot of our friends here bought them without issues, so i guess it is really russian roulette. Best to buy it from a place with good returns policy like amazon, just in case.



My BT20s pro was absolute crap... Firstly there's the stupid decision to have the Left adapter at the right side in the case (and vice versa), but I could live with that.

Other than that I experienced the following:

- Terrible bluetooth connection, I could walk 2-3 meters away from my PC and get interference (despite using 5ghz Wifi).
- After a few days, the adapters would no shut down when I put them into the case, so I couldn't charge them
-Finally one of the MMCX connectors came lose. I pulled on the connector and not the cable.

Thankfully I bought them via Amazon, so refund shouldn't be an issue.

I can't recommend them to anyone, hopefully Fiio will release their new True Wireless Adapter soon.



Bhelpoori said:


> We need to differentiate Bluetooth 5.2, which is the core specification of Bluetooth, and an "application level" specific such as LE Audio (of which one part is the LC3 codec). On this forum we care about LE Audio not just a version of Bluetooth and today only one specification of that has been publicly published (LC3 or low complexity communications codec) which was only about a month ago. I think we'll have to wait a while longer for LE Audio.
> 
> Given Bluetooth v5.2 was published on 31 Dec 2019, we're bound to see some hardware support it earlier than LE Audio.



Oh yea, my bad, so there's no improvement for Bluetooth audio with Bluetooth 5.2 without LE-Audio?

I can't wait for next gen Sennheiser MTW3 with LE-audio, it will basically solve every limitation with current Bluetooth technology.

-Standardised low energy/low latency codec (LC3)
-Standardised connection between L/R earbud instead of master/slave, you wont need proprietary Qualcomm tech. For example my current TWS supports qualcomm's TWS+, but my phone doesn't...
- Multi device connection


----------



## Bhelpoori

C_Lindbergh said:


> Oh yea, my bad, so there's no improvement for Bluetooth audio with Bluetooth 5.2 without LE-Audio?
> 
> I can't wait for next gen Sennheiser MTW3 with LE-audio, it will basically solve every limitation with current Bluetooth technology.
> 
> ...


Confirmed. Bluetooth 5.2 without LE Audio will not make any significant difference to TWS.

Your playing device will also need to support LE Audio too.


----------



## C_Lindbergh (Oct 13, 2020)

Bhelpoori said:


> Your playing device will also need to support LE Audio too.



Won't be a problem since it's all standardised from the Bluetooth SIG, and no proprietary crap from Qualcomm 

I switch phones quite often, and for my PC i'll just buy a new Bluetooth/wifi card once it hits the market.

As of now you can buy a new phone, and it wont support lets say Qualcomm TWS+ or a specfic codec like APTX adaptive.


----------



## logiatype

Bhelpoori said:


> Confirmed. Bluetooth 5.2 without LE Audio will not make any significant difference to TWS.
> 
> Your playing device will also need to support LE Audio too.


Agreed it seems a bit of a non-starter to buy new/expensive TWS so close to 5.2 implementation.


----------



## Kalli (Oct 13, 2020)

logiatype said:


> Agreed it seems a bit of a non-starter to buy new/expensive TWS so close to 5.2 implementation.


Since I'm about to buy a TWS adapter. How close are 5.2 LE audio devices? Any guess?


----------



## logiatype

Kalli said:


> Since I'm about to buy a TWS adapter. How close are 5.2 LE audio devices? Any guess?


Probably end of Q1 2021. There isn't much information at the moment.


----------



## clerkpalmer

logiatype said:


> Probably end of Q1 2021. There isn't much information at the moment.


If true, I wouldn't expect any major updates from the big manufacturers like Bose, Senn & Sony for at least a year.  Until cell phone hardware is upgraded which I'm guessing will start in 2021 with Samsung releases and follow through the rest of the year, this feels pretty far off.  DAPs may implement faster but most people use their phones.  No reason to hold off on purchasing anything at this point.


----------



## erockg

marcus2704 said:


> I think I am likely to go without the wings too, with Medium tips the fit is pretty solid.   From reading various threads, it seems a lot of people complain that these are not loud enough.   I find it strange as I have tried a multitude of TW earphones and none go as loud as these.


So weird.  Mine get super-loud.


----------



## AudioNoob

qualcomm tws+ is not the only non-relay option Mediatek/Airoha has mcsync. Sony uses Airoha 155*, there is also 156*


----------



## PixelSquish

BigZ12 said:


> New update for the Sennheiser Smart Control app.
> They've introduced a "High-End Sound Tuning" feature for the MTW2.
> 
> My first impressions: Warmer sound, wider soundstage especially with voices/mids, no sibilance like with the newest firmware and sound just feels fuller.
> ...



Interesting. Thanks for the info. 

Just updated my app and enabled it. Have to test it out


----------



## VICosPhi

logiatype said:


> I don't think you can find a TWS with those specs. Especially the call quality. In an A/B test, bluetooth converters (ES100-like) and dongle mics (Jaybird X3-like) far outperform TWS in mic quality. No TWS does multipoint (it's why I use the ES100 for home-office and Jaybirds in the office). Maybe in 2021 with BT 5.2 (sans mic quality).


Jabra 75t support multipoint I believe


----------



## dj24

Any recommendations for an external bluetooth 5.0 adapter that's compatible and works well with the audio codecs found in TWS?  I'm looking to upgrade my laptops current 4.2 Realtek bluetooth configuration.

Thanks!


----------



## dwells (Oct 14, 2020)

Hey, can any other FIIL T1 XS owners ( @regancipher @d3myz ) do me a quick favor and test to see if their charging case charges when using a cable that's USB-C at both ends? My case lights up and indicates that it's charging when I use any cable that's USB-C on one end and USB-A on the other, but when I plug it in with a dual-sided USB-C cable to either my ZMI USB-C power bank or Apple 30W USB-C power adapter, it doesn't light up at all.

Go figure I'm discovering this issue literally days before I leave on my big trip. I don't have room or a spare few hundred grams weight allowance to allow for a separate power adapter and cable just because FIIL decided not to play nice with USB-C standards...


----------



## Kalli

dwells said:


> Hey, can any other FIIL T1 XS owners do me a quick favor and test to see if their charging case charges when using a cable that's USB-C at both ends? My case lights up and indicates that it's charging when I use the included cable that's USB-C on one end and USB-A on the other, but when I plug it in with a dual-sided USB-C cable to either my ZMI USB-C power bank or Apple 30W USB-C power adapter, it doesn't light up at all.
> 
> Go figure I'm discovering this issue literally days before I leave on my big trip. I don't have room or a spare few hundred grams weight allowance to allow for a separate power adapter and cable just because FIIL decided not to play nice with USB-C standards...


I think it also depends on the source device.


----------



## dwells

Kalli said:


> I think it also depends on the source device.


I think the issue is with the FIIL case not being properly USB-C compliant. If I had to guess what's going on, when connected using a USB-C to USB-C cable, the power source tries to do a handshake to negotiate USB PD charging, and the case doesn't respond, so nothing happens. The case probably just wants plain old USB 2.0 spec power.

Unfortunately I don't have one on hand to test, but I'm wondering if taking a USB-C to USB A cable and then putting a USB A to USB-C adapter on it (silly, I know) would force the power source into realizing it's got a "dumb" device plugged in and giving it power.


----------



## eiraku (Oct 14, 2020)

AudioNoob said:


> qualcomm tws+ is not the only non-relay option Mediatek/Airoha has mcsync. Sony uses Airoha 155*, there is also 156*



The Fiils also seem to do non-relay (at least my T1XS behaves that way), and to me their implementation seems a lot more seamless at random side switching than even TWS+ (as is done on my Outlier Airs).

No idea what chipset they're using though.



dwells said:


> I think the issue is with the FIIL case not being properly USB-C compliant. If I had to guess what's going on, when connected using a USB-C to USB-C cable, the power source tries to do a handshake to negotiate USB PD charging, and the case doesn't respond, so nothing happens. The case probably just wants plain old USB 2.0 spec power.
> 
> 
> 
> Unfortunately I don't have one on hand to test, but I'm wondering if taking a USB-C to USB A cable and then putting a USB A to USB-C adapter on it (silly, I know) would force the power source into realizing it's got a "dumb" device plugged in and giving it power.



Just got the time to try this, and unfortunately you're probably right.

Tried two sources: 1x Tronsmart Trim (which I know does PD) and 1x Baseus S10 (which I'm not so sure about the Type-C spec). Both with a Belkin short C-to-C cable. Both charge my OP6 fine. Both doesn't do anything when plugged to the T1XS case.

Switched to a random USB-A to Micro-B (+ Type-C adapter) cable and the T1XS charges as usual from both sources.

So yeah. Prolly a "dumb" C charging port unfortunately.

P.S. The horrific daisy chain that follows actually works: *Type-C to USB-A adapter + USB-A to Micro-B cable + Micro-B to Type-C adapter*. This results in a monstrosity that's Type-C at both ends, and also one that charges the Fiil T1XS case just fine... despite the obvious silliness involved.

Considering that, I think your hypothetical scenario (A-C cable with an A-C adapter) should work just fine.


----------



## Tenlow

BigZ12 said:


> New update for the Sennheiser Smart Control app.
> They've introduced a "High-End Sound Tuning" feature for the MTW2.
> 
> My first impressions: Warmer sound, wider soundstage especially with voices/mids, no sibilance like with the newest firmware and sound just feels fuller.
> ...



I also mentioned it over at the MTW2 thread and I‘ve been listening to them with this feature enabled for several hours now. I think you‘re description is pretty accurate. It‘s definitely wider sounding, less sibilant at high volumes and instrument separation seems better as well. 

I just find it a bit odd, that they implement something like that in an app update (not in a firmware update) and that nobody really knows what this is about exactly as there is no detailed description of the feature besides „refined and pure sound profile“ - would have been great if they explained a bit more what exactly changed and why it deserves the „High-End Sound Tuning“ name...


----------



## jant71

M&D with that horseshoe blocky shape was never the prettiest girl in class but they did hit them with the ugly stick here... 





Never owned one but that squared off front. Doesn't that catch the wind like a bitch. I know I am into more for the park and running around so wind whistle is something I always keep in mind. Esp. being fall here now in the NE US I can just imagine these being so bad on the windy days.


----------



## Laethageal

Cerebro said:


> Yeah I’m interested in your review. Heard they don’t do AAC?



First of all, I need to tell you that even thought I love good sound, I don't have the best ears around, not even average. I have tinnitus in both ear at a range close to 8200hz (from a guess when trying a hz generator to figure it out) and also some hearing loss at various level in both hear, mostly in the higher pitch. With that out, I can still easily differentiate the SQ difference between my Sennheiser HD 450BT and B&W P7 

I had been using a very cheap 25$ bluetooth calling IEM (1 ear only) at job to answer calls when driving a lineman truck between jobs. I could hardly hear people speaking with it and as soon as there was the slightest noise around, they couldn't hear me either. Still, having the ability to easily answer phone calls when working at 50' in the air with the hands full quickly got me to use it all day long even if the unit was actually awful and even start trying to listen to music with it. To be honest the sound was real bad.

4 weeks ago, I couldn't bear it anymore and decided to do some research and bite the bullet. Seeing how the TWSNB2 had some great review about phone call, ambient mode (so I could easily hear coworker without always stopping the music or removing the TWS which can be annoying when working in heights) , I ordered it from Aliexpress. After 3 weeks not moving in the tracking and reading more about TWS, I saw an amazon sale for the Ankers L2P at 129$ cad. I had already read many people recommend it for critical listening and decided not to wait anymore and ordered it as well.

Now, I just received the NB2 and have used the L2P for a full week (almost 25hrs on them) so my perception of the NB2 might not reflect longer use, but here's my initial impression after playing with the NB2 half an hour to an hour and comparison to my L2P.

Soundstage :
L2P - Pre-burn-in : I recall they sounded pretty recessed, to a point I was wondering what I had in the hands.
L2P - Post burn-in : They are now wider and pretty good for IEM. Totally acceptable and could even compare to average cans.
NB2 - Pre-burn in : Slightly recessed. Not as bad as I recall the L2P to be but not as good as the burned-in L2P.

Bass :
L2P - Pre-burn-in : Bloated, overdone, slack sounding but deep and powerful. So much boost they were easily 10db too high compared to the rest of the spectrum.
L2P - Post burn-in (+hearID and Wavelet tuning) : Sharp, powerful yet well controlled, deep and pretty fast.
NB2 - Pre-burn in : Strong and somewhat precise, but not as deep and well controlled as the L2P. Enough so I'd forget about the difference if I was to stop listening to the L2P for a few days but clearly not on the same level if doing A-B testing.

Vocals :
L2P - Pre-burn-in : Clear, articulated and well defined. Perfect except for 1 issue with a few rare high female vocal tones where some buzzing overthrow the actual voice. Unit possibly faulty to be exchanged in the next few days.
L2P - Post burn-in : Still awesome. Issue persist in some songs but overall for every other tunes, they are some of the best sounding I own, headphones included.
NB2 - Pre-burn in : Decent but not giving some shills like the L2P

High :
L2P - Pre-burn-in : Wouldn't be able to give a negative point. Great sounding
L2P - Post burn-in : Same
NB2 - Pre-burn in : Pretty good, actually impressive for the price, but still a little less impressive than the L2P

Fit :
L2P : I was surprised how well they fit. I get some inconfort after a while but I have very small ear canals that don't like IEM in general. 8/10
NB2 : From the short use, I'd say pretty good. Even with L2P

Sound cancelling :
L2P : None, but the seal is so great the attenuation is better than my HD 450Bt with ANC on.
NB2 : With ANC off, there is slightly less attenuation than the L2P. With ANC on, it beats the L2P.

Ambient :
L2P : Not available. Don't expect to understand other talking to you while wearing both TWS.
NB2 : 6 level of ambient available. From some quick test, only the highest level with low/moderate volume will let me understand what someone will tell me, but if I don't understand chances I'll at least be aware they spoke to me instead of being lost in my thoughts.

Case :
L2P : Neat sliding cover, easy to operate even in the dark. Feels premium.
NB2 : Looks nice but hard to open. Plastic feels cheap and brittle to the touch yet seems solid.

Connectivity :
L2P : SBC - AAC -aptX
NB2 : SBC only

Phone calls:
L2P : With both buds on and low noise level around, people report hearing me well. Noise increases move this into OK quality. 1 bud is giving bad result in most case,wife told me I sounded like if I had a whole potato in the mouth. 
On receiving side, you can perfectly hear your interlocutor, even better than using the phone directly (compared to my Pixel2xl and my wife's S8 edge). 
NB2 : To be tested. 

Overall :
L2P : Simply awesome after some burn-in and tuning. The small buzzing issue aside, one of my best sounding iem/cans/system. Definitely worth the time/money to get a perfect pair. Give you a grin almost everytime you put them on and push you to listen to other genre simply because you want to hear how they sound. 
NB2 : Decent experience that is just fine, but except from song I really like, no grin. They just lack the wow factor of the L2P, yet fill another need for me as when I need ambient or (possibly, not yet tested) good call quality. At 109$cad TX/shipping/fees included they are pretty good but don't expect the sonic capacity of higher end TWS.


----------



## logiatype

dj24 said:


> Any recommendations for an external bluetooth 5.0 adapter that's compatible and works well with the audio codecs found in TWS?  I'm looking to upgrade my laptops current 4.2 Realtek bluetooth configuration.
> 
> Thanks!


Honestly BT 5.0 USB adapters are pretty rare. The only one I know also uses a Realtek chip. It's a Techkey 5.1 adapter on Amazon.


----------



## Kalli

dj24 said:


> Any recommendations for an external bluetooth 5.0 adapter that's compatible and works well with the audio codecs found in TWS?  I'm looking to upgrade my laptops current 4.2 Realtek bluetooth configuration.
> 
> Thanks!


You are somehow screwed here. 
I searched for that a few months ago and ended up buying a WiFi card (AX200) since I tried to upgrade my PC.
If your laptop supports upgrading the WiFi card you can do that, because it is the best option. Otherwise all the adapters out there are somehow bad.


----------



## Kalli

logiatype said:


> Probably end of Q1 2021. There isn't much information at the moment.





clerkpalmer said:


> If true, I wouldn't expect any major updates from the big manufacturers like Bose, Senn & Sony for at least a year.  Until cell phone hardware is upgraded which I'm guessing will start in 2021 with Samsung releases and follow through the rest of the year, this feels pretty far off.  DAPs may implement faster but most people use their phones.  No reason to hold off on purchasing anything at this point.


So, any idea what to do right now?
I pretty much settled on the Tin Hif T2+ and want to make them wireless. Doesn't have to be TWS, if the Bluetooth Adapters are way better.


----------



## d3myz

NeoExcel said:


> I had both the m10's and the Fiil t1x(returned) and I found out something rather interesting after burning the both of them in. I found that at max volume on the m10's they actually kind of reach the treble and mid detail of the t1x but with more fullness(especially in bass boost mode). I used this app to burn them in over night https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=zerofour.burn_in I say give the m10s a quick listen at max volume on bass boost mode and you might end up surprised.
> Though If I had to be honest, I like the normal mode a bit better and am usually listening to the m10's on it.


Thanks, I'll give that a shot. I too prefer the normal mode. How long did you burn the M10 in? I put about 40 hours of burn in on my first T1x's. Had to exchange my T1XS for the terrible syncing and monitor mode issues, but I'm planning on burning my new pair in as they have a warmer sound than the T1X.


----------



## howdy

Tenlow said:


> I also mentioned it over at the MTW2 thread and I‘ve been listening to them with this feature enabled for several hours now. I think you‘re description is pretty accurate. It‘s definitely wider sounding, less sibilant at high volumes and instrument separation seems better as well.
> 
> I just find it a bit odd, that they implement something like that in an app update (not in a firmware update) and that nobody really knows what this is about exactly as there is no detailed description of the feature besides „refined and pure sound profile“ - would have been great if they explained a bit more what exactly changed and why it deserves the „High-End Sound Tuning“ name...


I updated mine which is v1 and I really don't like it so far. The previous version had more sparkle in the highs while have great bass and mids. Now, it still has great bass and mids but lost it's highs that I enjoyed. Is there a way to revert? Or I may have to mess with the eq a bit more.


----------



## BigZ12

howdy said:


> I updated mine which is v1 and I really don't like it so far. The previous version had more sparkle in the highs while have great bass and mids. Now, it still has great bass and mids but lost it's highs that I enjoyed. Is there a way to revert? Or I may have to mess with the eq a bit more.


It's just a switch in the Smart control app... are you talking about a firmware upgrade?


----------



## hifi80sman

So, this morning I reached for my Bose QC Earbuds and got a low battery warning (both were at exactly 5%) after being in the case all night long.  The case was not out of juice (2nd light).

Charging the case and buds now, so we'll see how they hold up and if this continues or was a fluke.


----------



## assassin10000 (Oct 14, 2020)

Kalli said:


> So, any idea what to do right now?
> I pretty much settled on the Tin Hif T2+ and want to make them wireless. Doesn't have to be TWS, if the Bluetooth Adapters are way better.



If you are ok with AAC, no waterproofing and 5-6 hours of battery life the original TRN BT20 would work. Can be found for <$30 on sale. 

I used my T2+ with my BT20S with no issues. Has APT-X, waterproofing and lasts 7-8 hours.


There is the new BT20S pro, Fiio UTWS1 (less hissy BT20S), and pricier options are the ibasso CF01 or Fostex TM2. Fiio has a new UTWS3 supposed to be released end of this month, which looks good.


----------



## TK33

howdy said:


> I updated mine which is v1 and I really don't like it so far. The previous version had more sparkle in the highs while have great bass and mids. Now, it still has great bass and mids but lost it's highs that I enjoyed. Is there a way to revert? Or I may have to mess with the eq a bit more.



Interesting...thanks for posting this. 
 I am going to hold off on updating mine.


----------



## erockg

hifi80sman said:


> So, this morning I reached for my Bose QC Earbuds and got a low battery warning (both were at exactly 5%) after being in the case all night long.  The case was not out of juice (2nd light).
> 
> Charging the case and buds now, so we'll see how they hold up and if this continues or was a fluke.


They need to create a "thumbs down" button.  I returned mine.  I really wanted more out of them.  But fit was what pushed me over the edge.  Sticking with the Klipsch and preordered the UE because I'm an addict.


----------



## FYLegend

dwells said:


> Hey, can any other FIIL T1 XS owners ( @regancipher @d3myz ) do me a quick favor and test to see if their charging case charges when using a cable that's USB-C at both ends? My case lights up and indicates that it's charging when I use any cable that's USB-C on one end and USB-A on the other, but when I plug it in with a dual-sided USB-C cable to either my ZMI USB-C power bank or Apple 30W USB-C power adapter, it doesn't light up at all.
> 
> Go figure I'm discovering this issue literally days before I leave on my big trip. I don't have room or a spare few hundred grams weight allowance to allow for a separate power adapter and cable just because FIIL decided not to play nice with USB-C standards...


Wow, that's really disappointing. Aside from using a C-to-A cable with an A-to-C adapter, the only other solution is to tear down the case and solder resistors to the connector which should be able to enable C2C charging.

This was common with some TWS last year like Jabees and even RHA (though they quietly addressed the issue in later batches), but at this point I would have expected better from FIIL. My Sabbat E12 Ultra, Tronsmart Onyx Neo and TaoTronics 94 are all capable of C2C charging.


----------



## howdy

BigZ12 said:


> It's just a switch in the Smart control app... are you talking about a firmware upgrade?


I looked for this switch and did not find it. I didn't spend much time looking for it. I will look again when I get home.


----------



## logiatype

Kalli said:


> So, any idea what to do right now?
> I pretty much settled on the Tin Hif T2+ and want to make them wireless. Doesn't have to be TWS, if the Bluetooth Adapters are way better.


My honest opinion is to get a Qudelix K5 or Radsone ES100 (or something similar). TWS just isn't really near those units which have much better antennas.


----------



## hifi80sman

erockg said:


> They need to create a "thumbs down" button.  I returned mine.  I really wanted more out of them.  But fit was what pushed me over the edge.  Sticking with the Klipsch and preordered the UE because I'm an addict.


For me, the fit is good, but now the battery thing...dunno.  I really like them and the sound, so I'm going to give it a bit more time.  I have 30 days at Best Buy.


----------



## d3myz

Just got my Mpow M30 Plus'. Talk about bang for your buck. Great balance, plenty of punch bass, great mids. The highs are a little rolled off, but still good detail. I"m going to A/B them with the Fiil T1xs and see how they fair. For $35, these are a killer deal.


----------



## jant71

hifi80sman said:


> For me, the fit is good, but now the battery thing...dunno.  I really like them and the sound, so I'm going to give it a bit more time.  I have 30 days at Best Buy.



Well BOSE does stand for Buy Other Sound Equipment.


----------



## BigZ12

howdy said:


> I looked for this switch and did not find it. I didn't spend much time looking for it. I will look again when I get home.


On MTW2, there were not a new firmware, just the updated Smart Control app with this new option/feature.
Sound with "High-End Sound Tuning" set to off, is just as it was before. I still find it better with it set to on.


----------



## NeoExcel (Oct 14, 2020)

d3myz said:


> Thanks, I'll give that a shot. I too prefer the normal mode. How long did you burn the M10 in? I put about 40 hours of burn in on my first T1x's. Had to exchange my T1XS for the terrible syncing and monitor mode issues, but I'm planning on burning my new pair in as they have a warmer sound than the T1X.


I burnt my fiil t1x in a little more than 40 hours using them through out the first week I bought them before my tranyas came in. I also just tried some  AZLA SednaEarfitLight Short(small) and found they did improve the sound of the Tranay m10 abit but wasn't able to get everything out of them as the fit was STILL to big XD. I'm going to be returning these smalls and getting the ss size ones. Though from what I've been noticing maybe something maybe like the symbio w's might do the trick for improving the sound even more on the tranya.
 I Burnt the m10s in for more than 30 hours, however today I noticed the sound of the tranya(in general) sounded better than normal. Still prefer normal mode though Xp.


----------



## foxhound81

I like having at least a cable connecting the two IEMs personally, rather than full wireless.


----------



## hmscott (Oct 16, 2020)

NeoExcel said:


> I burnt my fiil t1x in a little more than 40 hours using them through out the first week I bought them before my tranyas came in. I also just tried some  AZLA SednaEarfitLight Short(small) and found they did improve the sound of the Tranay m10 abit but wasn't able to get everything out of them as the fit was STILL to big XD. I'm going to be returning these smalls and getting the ss size ones. Though from what I've been noticing maybe something maybe like the symbio w's might do the trick for improving the sound even more on the tranya.
> I Burnt the m10s in for more than 30 hours, however today I noticed the sound of the tranya(in general) sounded better than normal. Still prefer normal mode though Xp.


I went through approximately the same process - although I found my optimal size before I found the Sedna's.  I tried small first as well, and as it turns out I'm not small - I'm 6'4" and while I don't have Large Ears, I certainly don't have small ears either.  It took a while to get the idea that I don't need full insertion to get a seal, just a firm covering of the opening of he ear canal.  For me the MediumLarge - ML works, but ML may be a bit too large even though they fit snugly and don't pop out of my ears across all the IEM's I've tried them on.

With all of the hours I'm plugged in to an IEM these days comfort is now as important as the fit for a seal, I may try the Medium's and see if a bit smaller size is a more comfortable fit than the ML's.

The AZLA SednaEarfit XELASTEC are supposed to be even more comfortable, I may also pick up an ML and M pairs of those to compare the regular formulation model.

Every time I try the bundled tips with new IEM's it reminds me how much the right fitting tips help the sound, bass, treble, sound stage, everything goes to heck with ill fitting tips.

Also thank you for the M10 details, I'm still rocking two sets of the T10's, and loving them.  Thanks for the M10 lowdown.


----------



## howdy

BigZ12 said:


> On MTW2, there were not a new firmware, just the updated Smart Control app with this new option/feature.
> Sound with "High-End Sound Tuning" set to off, is just as it was before. I still find it better with it set to on.


Mine did the update but I have the first version and it say it only applies to v2 but the update did take place. My sound sig did change, or it's to have.


----------



## jant71

GOAL in the house...









Quick auto connect to my Sony A26 in aptX. Comfy light fit and sounds good out of the box.


----------



## chinmie

jant71 said:


> GOAL in the house...
> 
> 
> 
> Quick auto connect to my Sony A26 in aptX. Comfy light fit and sounds good out of the box.



Cleer Goal.... now that's a catchy name


----------



## Laethageal (Oct 14, 2020)

chinmie said:


> Cleer Goal.... now that's a catchy name


And here I was, thinking the box was showing a  "deer" 🦌 goal for it's brand/model name 😂😅


----------



## duo8

So yeah the Xelastecs don't go well with Galaxy Buds. They stick out too much, just enough to be uncomfortable (but you can still force them on your ears).
Anyone tried the airpods pro version with galaxy buds?


----------



## clerkpalmer

hifi80sman said:


> So, this morning I reached for my Bose QC Earbuds and got a low battery warning (both were at exactly 5%) after being in the case all night long.  The case was not out of juice (2nd light).
> 
> Charging the case and buds now, so we'll see how they hold up and if this continues or was a fluke.


So far this happened once to me but hasn't since.


----------



## Kalli

assassin10000 said:


> Fiio has a new UTWS3 supposed to be released end of this month, which looks good.


There is somehow no information about that. Is that normal for FiiO?



logiatype said:


> My honest opinion is to get a Qudelix K5 or Radsone ES100 (or something similar). TWS just isn't really near those units which have much better antennas.


Yes, I thought about that option as well. The 5K looks very impressive.
Does it have a built-in mic for phone calls and video chats and similar?
It is supposed to be used with the clip right? In a pocket the buttons would get clicked all day long by accident I guess.


----------



## assassin10000

Kalli said:


> There is somehow no information about that. Is that normal for FiiO?



Normal for many mfg. I don't use Twitter or FB, so there may be other sources of info.

A few pieces of info on the last 2-3 pages of this thread: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/fii...-earphones-a-new-voice-mmcx-0-78-2pin.921863/


----------



## marcus2704

So I have yet again gone back to my Anker L2Ps after a brief outing with the Klipsch T5 II which whilst very nice, I found that I preferred the signature of the L2Ps in particular vocals and low end presence.  The L2Ps have remained my staple earphone and have seen off the Bose QCs, M&D MW07+, Sennheiser TW and Jabra 75Ts.  There are specific aspects of other earphones that eclipse the L2Ps but in terms of the overall package I am yet to come across a TW earphone that surpasses these.  I find that quite staggering considering the price difference on some of these sets, these can be picked up at just over £100 these days.  I am keen to hear the Jabra 85Ts as I did love the 75Ts.  Am also keen to know if anyone else who has owned the L2Ps have gone on to find an earphone even better than these?


----------



## xkcd0137

Edifier X3 for $25 or Soundcore Liberty 2 (non-Pro) for $50??


----------



## webvan

marcus2704 said:


> So I have yet again gone back to my Anker L2Ps after a brief outing with the Klipsch T5 II which whilst very nice, I found that I preferred the signature of the L2Ps in particular vocals and low end presence.  The L2Ps have remained my staple earphone and have seen off the Bose QCs, M&D MW07+, Sennheiser TW and Jabra 75Ts.  There are specific aspects of other earphones that eclipse the L2Ps but in terms of the overall package I am yet to come across a TW earphone that surpasses these.  I find that quite staggering considering the price difference on some of these sets, these can be picked up at just over £100 these days.  I am keen to hear the Jabra 85Ts as I did love the 75Ts.  Am also keen to know if anyone else who has owned the L2Ps have gone on to find an earphone even better than these?



I haven't found any TWE that sounds better, no. The closest would be the Bose QC I suppose that maybe have some better instrument separation but the overall SQ remains with the L2Ps, likely due to their DD+BA design a DD can't really compete with.


----------



## clerkpalmer

clerkpalmer said:


> So far this happened once to me but hasn't since.


Btw on my Bose app the battery readings are always the same for both buds. They do not measure independently. I am on android. Are your the same?


----------



## logiatype

Kalli said:


> There is somehow no information about that. Is that normal for FiiO?
> 
> 
> Yes, I thought about that option as well. The 5K looks very impressive.
> ...


It is a clip on. I use the ES100 for my work calls (all day). It connects to my work computer and my phone so I listen to music from my phone and take zoom/teams/etc calls for work. It's kind of off-topic in this sub so you can read through the dedicated thread here:

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/the-qudelix-5k-thread.914628/


----------



## Caipirina

hifi80sman said:


> So, this morning I reached for my Bose QC Earbuds and got a low battery warning (both were at exactly 5%) after being in the case all night long.  The case was not out of juice (2nd light).
> 
> Charging the case and buds now, so we'll see how they hold up and if this continues or was a fluke.


That seems to be a Bose issue .. I had that with both my SSF (and the one pair that still works needs to be 'watched' for proper charging .. and recently it loves to wiggle off the contacts and hog the BT connection without warning) ... also hearing on an FB group about the newly release Sleepbuds 2 that a lot of people seem to have exactly those issues again ... 

Good I did not have a chance to 'early adopt'


----------



## Caipirina

webvan said:


> I can't see the point of running with the Bose QC, they're bulky, expensive and "thumpy" of course...I was going to check that latter aspect for "science" but just a couple of strides produced that annoying and sound destroying "thump" so I put them down and grabbed the trusty X12.


Thanks for your science check 

When I got the SSF I thought how cool it would be if in 2 years they could fit QC20 level ANC in there ... I never had a problem with the slightly bulky form factor, but I enjoyed the semi open style. 
And now they have a smaller sport model without ANC and a bulky 'no-run' model with ANC ... 

Saved 279$ ... hooray!


----------



## brtalush

Did any one try : MPOW X5? 
$55, ANC, TOUCH CONTROLS, 8Hrs (32Hrs) play time.
https://www.amazon.com/Wireless-Mpo...hild=1&keywords=mpow+x5&qid=1602776985&sr=8-2


----------



## xkcd0137

xkcd0137 said:


> Edifier X3 for $25 or Soundcore Liberty 2 (non-Pro) for $50??



Anyone?? Which one has better sound quality for the price? Is Soundcore Liberty as good as Liberty 2 Pro?


----------



## brtalush

And another one - looks like an _Edifier TWS NB2 _rebrand.
Every thing is the same,  but no app -  Its now  *$65 *->  Exclusive 20% Off Discount Code: EFAPANC2

*EarFun Air Pro Active Noise Cancelling*
https://www.amazon.com/EarFun-Cance...Active+Noise+Cancelling&qid=1602780037&sr=8-3


----------



## TK33

Kalli said:


> There is somehow no information about that. Is that normal for FiiO?
> 
> 
> Yes, I thought about that option as well. The 5K looks very impressive.
> ...



The 5K has a mic like the ES100.  I think the 5K also supports an inline mic although I have not tested this.

I have both the ES100 and 5K and prefer the 5K for SQ, build quality, better connection, PEQ and everything else but the buttons. Both built in mics are not the greatest and I actually use my Samsung Galaxy Buds Live for work calls.  They have been fantastic for calls. I use the Galaxy Buds Live with a Samsung phone so I can use the scalable codec. I still really like the Samsun Galaxy Buds Live and have not really been using my other TWS.  

I recently did a hour and half commute into NYC with the Galaxy Buds Live for the first time since the COVID shutdowns and was initially bummed I left my SE846 at home...then I realized how convenient they are with the open design and ANC (helped with train AC noise but could still hear announcements). They did not leave my ears until I was in my office or back home (after I washed my hands and applied generous amounts of hand sanitizer). Not having any wires is nice when you have to wear a mask.


----------



## Kalli

TK33 said:


> The 5K has a mic like the ES100.  I think the 5K also supports an inline mic although I have not tested this.
> 
> I have both the ES100 and 5K and prefer the 5K for SQ, build quality, better connection, PEQ and everything else but the buttons. Both built in mics are not the greatest and I actually use my Samsung Galaxy Buds Live for work calls.  They have been fantastic for calls. I use the Galaxy Buds Live with a Samsung phone so I can use the scalable codec. I still really like the Samsun Galaxy Buds Live and have not really been using my other TWS.
> 
> I recently did a hour and half commute into NYC with the Galaxy Buds Live for the first time since the COVID shutdowns and was initially bummed I left my SE846 at home...then I realized how convenient they are with the open design and ANC (helped with train AC noise but could still hear announcements). They did not leave my ears until I was in my office or back home (after I washed my hands and applied generous amounts of hand sanitizer). Not having any wires is nice when you have to wear a mask.


Thanks a lot for that in sight. I was curious about those beans all the time. They don't have aptX though, right?


----------



## TK33

Kalli said:


> Thanks a lot for that in sight. I was curious about those beans all the time. They don't have aptX though, right?


No they don't but they work great still, especially since I have a Samsung phone. I still use my Qudelix 5K for music almost daily.


----------



## dwells

eiraku said:


> Switched to a random USB-A to Micro-B (+ Type-C adapter) cable and the T1XS charges as usual from both sources.
> 
> So yeah. Prolly a "dumb" C charging port unfortunately.
> 
> ...


Hey, thanks for checking this for me. I picked up an A to C adapter, and it does work, but only with the adapter end plugged into the power bank, and even then it takes a try or two to get the juice flowing. No dice at all with the Apple 30W adapter, which has no problem charging the power bank interestingly enough. Apple must be a bit more strict in making sure devices ID properly before it opens up the power flow. 

Honestly this is an absolutely huge flaw and if I weren’t flying out on Tuesday and planning on backpacking for a year, this would be a dealbreaker and they’d be going back. Major ****-up by FIIL, having a non-compliant USB-C port is actually worse than having a Micro USB port on the back.


----------



## PixelSquish

Tenlow said:


> I also mentioned it over at the MTW2 thread and I‘ve been listening to them with this feature enabled for several hours now. I think you‘re description is pretty accurate. It‘s definitely wider sounding, less sibilant at high volumes and instrument separation seems better as well.
> 
> I just find it a bit odd, that they implement something like that in an app update (not in a firmware update) and that nobody really knows what this is about exactly as there is no detailed description of the feature besides „refined and pure sound profile“ - would have been great if they explained a bit more what exactly changed and why it deserves the „High-End Sound Tuning“ name...



I definitely get a little bit more bass, in the lower frequencies, and slightly wider soundstage. Never had an issue with sibilance before so not noticing that change. I use these everyday when walking my dog and they are really fun buds. I find myself busting little dance moves and nodding my head to the music all the time with these. Good stuff.


----------



## webvan

brtalush said:


> Did any one try : MPOW X5?
> $55, ANC, TOUCH CONTROLS, 8Hrs (32Hrs) play time.
> https://www.amazon.com/Wireless-Mpo...hild=1&keywords=mpow+x5&qid=1602776985&sr=8-2



They look like Tozo NC9, no ? In which case the ANC will likely "weakest possible sauce"


----------



## webvan

Caipirina said:


> Thanks for your science check
> 
> When I got the SSF I thought how cool it would be if in 2 years they could fit QC20 level ANC in there ... I never had a problem with the slightly bulky form factor, but I enjoyed the semi open style.
> And now they have a smaller sport model without ANC and a bulky 'no-run' model with ANC ...
> ...



Yeah I don't know if you can run with the Bose Sports without getting the dreaded "thump" ?


----------



## BigZ12

I really love my Senn' MTW2s with the new "High-End Sound Tuning" and these EQ settings.


----------



## go0gle

marcus2704 said:


> So I have yet again gone back to my Anker L2Ps after a brief outing with the Klipsch T5 II which whilst very nice, I found that I preferred the signature of the L2Ps in particular vocals and low end presence.  The L2Ps have remained my staple earphone and have seen off the Bose QCs, M&D MW07+, Sennheiser TW and Jabra 75Ts.  There are specific aspects of other earphones that eclipse the L2Ps but in terms of the overall package I am yet to come across a TW earphone that surpasses these.  I find that quite staggering considering the price difference on some of these sets, these can be picked up at just over £100 these days.  I am keen to hear the Jabra 85Ts as I did love the 75Ts.  Am also keen to know if anyone else who has owned the L2Ps have gone on to find an earphone even better than these?



the L2P were a tad over engineered at launch, which is why they are aging so well.

I see no reason to buy another pair until next gen hardware becomes available.

All currently available headphones seem more or less clones of each other with no significant improvement over the L2P.


----------



## jant71 (Oct 15, 2020)

Listen to the Cleer Goal for the second day now and I like the way they sound. Ate with them with no chewing issue. The big open stage of an open earphone with some quality bass and nice extension. This earpod style is more earbud and fit is key so they can be more bassy or less bassy with the particular fit. Issue might be the soft ear fins for comfort don't push in with much force so if your ear needs that for them to sound the best. I might contact them with a little feed back to maybe make a firmer set as an option. They can use earpod style covers with their shape but some research should be done to confirm they would fit in the case. Something like this should still work even with the stock slicones on which don't cover the driver part at all.


 or Earhoox style with a fin 


More of potential fit differences but perhaps some aftermarket options. I, myself do add some bass EQ to these since the fit on me could benefit from a bit more force pushing the driver in closer.

They didn't give that extra charge for the goal like the manual download I found earlier. So, it is 20 hour and not 24 hours of charge but still is only five minutes for the one hour quick charge. They also changed the controls. Said to be no single press functions I guess to avoid accidental presses(JVC is better here as the Goal sensor area is bigger and easier to hit unintentionally) but now play pause is single press on either side and double press is FF on right or RR on the left. Volume is tap and tap/hold on the second tap. The auto pause on removal works quick and well but it is not a smart sensor so no auto resume when you put back in and you can get the play upon removal if you are paused.

Connection almost instant and nice and strong. No issues detected here yet but I have yet to test the range.

Windy day today and they were okay. A bit of a muted roar but not a bad one or wind whistle. Not the JVC handling of wind with the Aero fit design. Bigger and stick out more to catch the wind.



Some will like the more muted red/white LEDs that are behind housing so enough to see but not bright in a dark room.



I have the JVC ambient tips on there. JVC still seals more in and has a bit more satisfying low end punch while the Goal is bigger sounding and more spaced out. No real comparison just yet but those two differences stand out. Of course the JVC has the on board bass boost so I enable that when going ambient and that is a nice difference. JVC talks more a bout the Bass or Off sound or power on and etc. Cleer just seems to talk when pairing or looking for device and nothing else I have heard yet. No connected or power messages.

The case for the Cleer is a bit bigger and not shaped to fit the shape of a closed hand like the JVC is.



Both plastic top and rubber style bottom but the smooth plastic matte rubber imitation is not the same real rubber of the JVC designed to grip and not slide...



Cleer case slide along the plastic cover here while the JVC doesn't move and can hang off the edge. Cleer case is not like the JVC design to avoid fingerprints but the top of the case does have the window to see through and monitor the LEDs. The Goal case would be the better looking one while the JVC the better sports design.

JVC is almost $40 more, $129 vs. $89.99 and it has 9 hour battery vs. 6 and 27 vs. 20 including the case. A bit better sports design while the Goal is trying to be the most barely there as far as feel yet be stable for sports and be able to hear your surroundings. Goal is solid for the $90. Plastics are strong and the finish is quality. Case is sturdy with a good hinge and magnet. Earpieces are quality with great fit on the buds. Handsome, comfortable, nice sound, solid build. Nice presentation and packaging and nice quality stationary paper for the manual.

I still want to work with the fit and burn them in. Have to choose between the medium and large wings. Only things I would have liked to see would be a bass boost function and Qi charging. I have no complaints though at $90 shipped. If I don't wok out the optimal fit with the wings then I might complain about them a bit but the jury is still out. Cleer seems to have done a solid job here.

EDIT: I have found some Senn earfins do the trick on the Goal for my ears...


----------



## FYLegend

dwells said:


> Hey, thanks for checking this for me. I picked up an A to C adapter, and it does work, but only with the adapter end plugged into the power bank, and even then it takes a try or two to get the juice flowing. No dice at all with the Apple 30W adapter, which has no problem charging the power bank interestingly enough. Apple must be a bit more strict in making sure devices ID properly before it opens up the power flow.
> 
> Honestly this is an absolutely huge flaw and if I weren’t flying out on Tuesday and planning on backpacking for a year, this would be a dealbreaker and they’d be going back. Major ****-up by FIIL, having a non-compliant USB-C port is actually worse than having a Micro USB port on the back.


Yeah, this wasn't much of a problem a few years ago when many brands were still pushing out USB-A power bricks, but nearly every brand now uses Type-C PD chargers. It would be understandable for smaller brands but if I recall FIIL is under Mijia/Xiaomi which just makes it more disappointing. I wonder if T1 Pro solves this issue, I doubt it though.

Of the TWS I have used, Anbes 359, Jabees Firefly Pro, Astrotec S60 and Muzili EA10 have "faux" USB-C ports. RHA TrueConnect did in its initial runs but they rectified this issue future batches. Customers reported receiving replacements/repairs that were able to charge C2C, so it might be worth complaining to them lol

Here's a teardown solution to the issue:


----------



## hmscott (Oct 15, 2020)

duo8 said:


> So yeah the Xelastecs don't go well with Galaxy Buds. They stick out too much, just enough to be uncomfortable (but you can still force them on your ears).
> Anyone tried the airpods pro version with galaxy buds?


ALZA has 2 models of "short" tips that work better with TWS's and fit in TWS cases, so far they've worked in all but the smallest case - Haylou GT1 Plus.

Here they are, I've only tried the first one:

AZLA SednaEarfitLight Short
https://www.amazon.com/AZLA-SednaEarfitLight-Short-Pairs-Size/dp/B083XQM2YP

AZLA SednaEarfit Short
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B083XNX1V1

As far as ear fit that will be a matter of the design - and as I recall the Buds+ were very much a short form fitting eartip - the AZLA Short might be better than the full sized Xelastecs, but even so the Short still might be too big.

The core "tube" of the AZLA is strong / firm and that might be where the fit of designed fit of the Bud's could work against each other.


----------



## duo8

hmscott said:


> ALZA has 2 models of "short" tips that work better with TWS's and fit in TWS cases, so far they've worked in all but the smallest case - Haylou GT1 Plus.
> 
> Here they are, I've only tried the first one:
> 
> ...


They both measure the same as Xelastec.
I might be able to try the APP Xelastec later today, see if it fits on the galaxy buds.


----------



## eiraku (Oct 15, 2020)

go0gle said:


> the L2P were a tad over engineered at launch, which is why they are aging so well.
> 
> I see no reason to buy another pair until next gen hardware becomes available.
> 
> All currently available headphones seem more or less clones of each other with no significant improvement over the L2P.



Besides nice extras like Ambient/Transparency mode and ANC (and actually working TWS+ coz I can never make it work on mine), not much can touch the L2P TBH (at least SQ wise).

Maybe the 1More ANC TWS, but the sound sig is a tad diff, there is no in-app EQ (though it's pretty hard to top SoundCore's class leading custom EQ implementation) and the earbuds aren't IP rated.


----------



## dwells

FYLegend said:


> Yeah, this wasn't much of a problem a few years ago when many brands were still pushing out USB-A power bricks, but nearly every brand now uses Type-C PD chargers. It would be understandable for smaller brands but if I recall FIIL is under Mijia/Xiaomi which just makes it more disappointing. I wonder if T1 Pro solves this issue, I doubt it though.
> 
> Of the TWS I have used, Anbes 359, Jabees Firefly Pro, Astrotec S60 and Muzili EA10 have "faux" USB-C ports. RHA TrueConnect did in its initial runs but they rectified this issue future batches. Customers reported receiving replacements/repairs that were able to charge C2C, so it might be worth complaining to them lol
> 
> Here's a teardown solution to the issue:



Having been locked into the Apple ecosystem (by choice, I do love their stuff), the ZMI dual USB-C only power bank and then Apple 30W adapter and Lightning to USB-C cable I picked up three months ago were my first exposure to USB-C. So to me at least it's a new standard, so that video was actually super interesting to see what's going on.

I managed to get the T1 XS case apart non-destructively with some plastic phone pry tools, and it looks like you'd have to Dremel out the center of the grey plastic inside to make room for the resistors, and even then it's gonna be a tight fit and tougher soldering than I'd like to attempt given that my iron has been in storage with a lot of my other stuff and it's been a couple years since I soldered anything. I suppose you could follow the traces a bit and see if there's other points to solder onto, but it's pretty dense in there - the bottom side of the board sits directly on top of the battery so you can't do anything from the bottom of the PCB, and up top you've got that grey plastic piece responsible for holding the buds sitting on top.

Wound up ordering the Earfun Air Pro (the rebranded Edifier TWS NB2) - looks like I can get them here on time if I leave for Ukraine a day later than I planned and I didn't book my ticket yet so I guess I'm doing that. Try the Earfuns out for a while, see if they're comfortable despite the stems, and see if the sound quality downgrade is tolerable enough - and if they support proper USB-C to USB-C charging!

If anyone here owns the Edifier TWS NB2 (@regancipher ?) and can test for me in advance so I can cancel the Earfun order if need be, that would be wonderful!


----------



## BigZ12

Maybe a stupid question, but; 
Can a TWS/BT headset sound better on the new iPhone 12 Pro vs my 3 year old iPhone X?


----------



## SenorChang8

BigZ12 said:


> Maybe a stupid question, but;
> Can a TWS/BT headset sound better on the new iPhone 12 Pro vs my 3 year old iPhone X?



The bottle neck is the AAC codec. However the BT signal should be better than the X. 

Apple’s refusal to improve upon AAC is making me seriously consider switching to Android for the first time.


----------



## BigZ12

SenorChang8 said:


> The bottle neck is the AAC codec. However the BT signal should be better than the X.
> 
> Apple’s refusal to improve upon AAC is making me seriously consider switching to Android for the first time.


Thanks.
So just better range then?


----------



## Kalli

SenorChang8 said:


> Apple’s refusal to improve upon AAC is making me seriously consider switching to Android for the first time.


Do it!


----------



## SenorChang8

BigZ12 said:


> Thanks.
> So just better range then?



Yeah, if Apple did make significant improvements they’ll be showing it off.


----------



## assassin10000

BigZ12 said:


> Thanks.
> So just better range then?



If your old device was BT 4.2 and now you're 5.0 or higher, you could have both improved range and a higher effective bitrate. A better antenna could have a part to play as well.

If the signal is weaker your older device could have been throttling the bitrate to improve connectivity at the expense of detail. So you might have been getting 192kb or 256kb vs max of 320kb.


----------



## Bhelpoori

SenorChang8 said:


> Yeah, if Apple did make significant improvements they’ll be showing it off.


Actually Apple did make significant improvements and announcements this year at WWDC but to support a new part of the AAC toolbox (xHE-AAC), FLAC and the spatial audio with Dolby. I’m not an Apple fanboy but I do admit that this year they have made significant audio improvements in iOS 14...


----------



## Bhelpoori

assassin10000 said:


> If your old device was BT 4.2 and now you're 5.0 or higher, you could have both improved range and a higher effective bitrate. A better antenna could have a part to play as well.
> 
> If the signal is weaker your older device could have been throttling the bitrate to improve connectivity at the expense of detail. So you might have been getting 192kb or 256kb vs max of 320kb.


Bluetooth max for AAC is 256kbps...

Both iPhones support Bluetooth 5 so the version difference isn’t causing the issue...


----------



## Bhelpoori

BigZ12 said:


> Maybe a stupid question, but;
> Can a TWS/BT headset sound better on the new iPhone 12 Pro vs my 3 year old iPhone X?


Probably not, however, if the phone has been dropped to damage the antenna or if the battery health of the iPhone X is bad then there will be a difference.


----------



## SenorChang8

Bhelpoori said:


> Actually Apple did make significant improvements and announcements this year at WWDC but to support a new part of the AAC toolbox (xHE-AAC), FLAC and the spatial audio with Dolby. I’m not an Apple fanboy but I do admit that this year they have made significant audio improvements in iOS 14...



Oh right I didn’t see anything about it on their product page


----------



## bubsdaddy

Caipirina said:


> That seems to be a Bose issue .. I had that with both my SSF (and the one pair that still works needs to be 'watched' for proper charging .. and recently it loves to wiggle off the contacts and hog the BT connection without warning) ... also hearing on an FB group about the newly release Sleepbuds 2 that a lot of people seem to have exactly those issues again ...
> 
> Good I did not have a chance to 'early adopt'



man I just hate that about the SSF. My left earbud sometimes is dead for my morning run and they keep connecting to my iPhone while still in the case, unbeknownst to me, and interrupt my phone calls. I finally deleted them from my iPhone Bluetooth list and just use them with my Apple Watch for running.


----------



## bubsdaddy

dwells said:


> Hey, thanks for checking this for me. I picked up an A to C adapter, and it does work, but only with the adapter end plugged into the power bank, and even then it takes a try or two to get the juice flowing. No dice at all with the Apple 30W adapter, which has no problem charging the power bank interestingly enough. Apple must be a bit more strict in making sure devices ID properly before it opens up the power flow.
> 
> Honestly this is an absolutely huge flaw and if I weren’t flying out on Tuesday and planning on backpacking for a year, this would be a dealbreaker and they’d be going back. Major ****-up by FIIL, having a non-compliant USB-C port is actually worse than having a Micro USB port on the back.



Most USB-C TWS headphones share this same issue.


----------



## go0gle

eiraku said:


> Besides nice extras like Ambient/Transparency mode and ANC (and actually working TWS+ coz I can never make it work on mine), not much can touch the L2P TBH (at least SQ wise).
> 
> Maybe the 1More ANC TWS, but the sound sig is a tad diff, there is no in-app EQ (though it's pretty hard to top SoundCore's class leading custom EQ implementation) and the earbuds aren't IP rated.



Yes, I was referring mostly to the SQ, which is what I care about the most.. 

For the rest of the features there are better options out there. I still think the airpods pro are a great option for iphone owners.


----------



## Antenne

I was tempted to buy the Earfun Air Pro because they've sent me a discount code and I like TWS with a stem better then without. But I own the Apollo Bold already and no app is also a dealbreaker. There are some differences between the Air Pro and the Edifier NB2. According to the product info the Earfun supports AAC, and maybe software/firmware is Earfun's own development.
From the product page at Amazon:
"E & E (Edifier & EarFun) ANC sound collaboration. By combining the Edifier audio system and EarFun's QuietSmart technology, we deliver a better ANC audio experience."
Has somebody compared the sound of the two?


----------



## typhoon838

Has anybody had issues with the apollo bold not charging? If I use the headphones for a while and then put them in the (fully charged) case, and leave them in overnight, even with the case closed, sometimes I'll take them out and will see that they're still below 10%. This is a dealbreaker and I'm wondering if there's something wrong with them so I can send them back for a replacement. I'm using the included eartips, medium size.


----------



## FYLegend

dwells said:


> Having been locked into the Apple ecosystem (by choice, I do love their stuff), the ZMI dual USB-C only power bank and then Apple 30W adapter and Lightning to USB-C cable I picked up three months ago were my first exposure to USB-C. So to me at least it's a new standard, so that video was actually super interesting to see what's going on.
> 
> I managed to get the T1 XS case apart non-destructively with some plastic phone pry tools, and it looks like you'd have to Dremel out the center of the grey plastic inside to make room for the resistors, and even then it's gonna be a tight fit and tougher soldering than I'd like to attempt given that my iron has been in storage with a lot of my other stuff and it's been a couple years since I soldered anything. I suppose you could follow the traces a bit and see if there's other points to solder onto, but it's pretty dense in there - the bottom side of the board sits directly on top of the battery so you can't do anything from the bottom of the PCB, and up top you've got that grey plastic piece responsible for holding the buds sitting on top.
> 
> ...


El Jefe has confirmed to me the T1 Pro charges C2C and then suggested there might be issues with higher watt chargers. That said, the fact that yours won't charge with the ZMI 18W suggests it doesn't work anyways. All of my C2C-charging TWS charge with my 18W PD power bank.

I had their Earfun Free last year, it very well supports USB C2C charging. It's a shame the Indiegogo launch was somewhat of a disaster with my right bud failing to output audio after less than a week and Earfun was unable to give me a replacement because mine was the Oluv limited edition.



bubsdaddy said:


> Most USB-C TWS headphones share this same issue.


Not recently, Sabbat E12, Earfun Free, Aufo M1, Taotronics SoundLiberty 94 are a few that charge C2C. Obviously bigger brands like Samsung or Sony should work as well.


----------



## MayaTlab

SenorChang8 said:


> The bottle neck is the AAC codec. However the BT signal should be better than the X.
> 
> Apple’s refusal to improve upon AAC is making me seriously consider switching to Android for the first time.



AAC by Apple is nowhere near the problem you think it is : https://www.soundguys.com/the-ultimate-guide-to-bluetooth-headphones-aac-20296/
In general the name of the bluetooth codec is way less important than the actual implementation.

Heck I've just re-tried the Sennheiser Momentum 3 and was able to produce easily audible distortion on that copy by playing single tones above 10 000hz or so with various codecs (SBC, AAC, APTX) and various sources. While in the same tests (with AAC only obviously) my AirPods Pro produce no audible distortion whatsoever.


----------



## hmscott (Oct 16, 2020)

typhoon838 said:


> Has anybody had issues with the apollo bold not charging? If I use the headphones for a while and then put them in the (fully charged) case, and leave them in overnight, even with the case closed, sometimes I'll take them out and will see that they're still below 10%. This is a dealbreaker and I'm wondering if there's something wrong with them so I can send them back for a replacement. I'm using the included eartips, medium size.


You could try seating the tips further down onto the IEM, sometimes it's a close fit.  I've found tape over the connections on the earpiece and case before - maybe all of that didn't get removed - the sticky stuff left behind can impede charging too.  I've used rubber bands around the case when using 3rd party tips before, worth a try as a last ditch effort before returning - if you like them 

I was thinking of ordering these, at $99 they are at the top of my TWS range these days - the more expensive ones aren't much better, the $25-$45 ones have worked out better for me, and I can buy 2 for less than $100 to have a rotating charged pair - KZ S2's and Tranya T10's - gonna try the M10's next as the price drops.

Please let us know how the Apollo Bolds work out - if you can get them charging - and how they sound?  Thank you. 


Antenne said:


> ...But I own the Apollo Bold already and no app is also a dealbreaker.


Are your Apollo Bold's charging ok for you?


----------



## hmscott (Oct 16, 2020)

duo8 said:


> They both measure the same as Xelastec.
> I might be able to try the APP Xelastec later today, see if it fits on the galaxy buds.


Good to know, I haven't tried the Xelastec models yet, the Short's were working for me.

Do you mean the AirPods Pro Xlastec?  Those look like they have an extra large stepped opening to accommodate the AirPods Pro new model with the large flange fitting.

Which Bud's are you trying to fit, the Beans?  Do the "Beans" have a larger flange too, like the AirPod Pro's?

The Buds/Buds+ were normal throated just like any IEM - so that large opening might not work on the regular Bud's/Bud+'s... please let us know how they work out.  

https://www.amazon.com/s?k=azla+Xelastec

AZLA SednaEarfit XELASTEC for Airpods Pro / 2 Pairs (Size ML)
https://www.amazon.com/AZLA-SednaEarfit-XELASTEC-Airpods-Pairs/dp/B08DS1Y727

AZLA SednaEarfit XELASTEC for Airpods Pro / 3 Pairs (Size MS/M/ML 3Pr)
https://www.amazon.com/AZLA-SednaEarfit-XELASTEC-Airpods-Pairs/dp/B08DS5XWRM


----------



## webvan

typhoon838 said:


> Has anybody had issues with the apollo bold not charging? If I use the headphones for a while and then put them in the (fully charged) case, and leave them in overnight, even with the case closed, sometimes I'll take them out and will see that they're still below 10%. This is a dealbreaker and I'm wondering if there's something wrong with them so I can send them back for a replacement. I'm using the included eartips, medium size.


Yes it's a known issue, the charging case is not well designed, some people have put foamy material in the lid to press gently against the buds and make them charge.


----------



## ares946

Hi all! Today I would like to make a mini-review on the interesting True wireless headphones *Whizzer B6*, shaped like beans.
Let's get started!







The package contents are standard: the headphones themselves, a case for the headphones, a charging cable and 3 pairs of nozzles of different sizes.
The headphones work according to the Bluetooth 5.0 standard and have the QCC3020 module. Supports AAC, SBC, AptX codecs. The claimed operating time in listening to music on a single charge is 6-8 hours, talk time is 8 hours, a case for 1000 mAh or 2-3 headphone charges. They have wireless charging function, waterproof according to the IPX7 standard, work up to 10 meters from the signal source, and have touch control. A dynamic emitter with a graphene membrane.

From myself, I can say that the quality of the microphone is average, the quality of signal reception is good and did not cause any problems.
And what’s with the sound?






*Low frequencies* have plenty of sub-bass and mid-bass. There are really a lot of low frequencies, some electronic music sometimes even difficult to listen to, but overall it is very pleasant.

*The mids* are really good for Bluetooth headphones, but average quality compared to wired headphones. The low-mid frequencies are accentuated, the instruments are large and heavy, the distortion guitars growl pleasantly. The upper mids are smoothly raised, and therefore make it possible to hear more details and interesting play of vocal parts, but not annoying at all.

*The high* frequencies are greatly reduced and pushed back.

*The scene* is of course average, but the depth is slightly more than average and makes it possible to relatively accurately understand the location of the musicians.

In general, the sound is very similar to the Ibasso IT01 with less High frequencies. Or, if someone will understand it this way, they have the _frequency response of the Harman Target_, but with much more sub-bass and an average amount of mid-bass.
The headphones are clearly not bad and you can find them on this site.






Are they worth the money? Honestly, having in my hands the Kinera YH623  for $55, I see no reason to buy Whizzer B6, although they have a better microphone and in some ways better sound, but in some ways worse. And of course, do not forget about the fit in the ear canal. If the YH623 fit perfectly in my ears, then I could hardly hold the B6 in my ear properly.
Nevertheless, the headphones turned out to be good and decent. It remains to wait for sales and discounts to buy them cheaper, and then they will fully justify their cost.

Thanks to all!


----------



## hmscott (Oct 16, 2020)

ares946 said:


> ...Are they worth the money? Honestly, having in my hands the Kinera YH623  for $55, I see no reason to buy Whizzer B6, although they have a better microphone and in some ways better sound, but in some ways worse. And of course, do not forget about the fit in the ear canal. If the YH623 fit perfectly in my ears, then I could hardly hold the B6 in my ear properly.
> Nevertheless, the headphones turned out to be good and decent. It remains to wait for sales and discounts to buy them cheaper, and then they will fully justify their cost.
> 
> Thanks to all!


Where do you find the Kinera YH623 for $55?, I see $69.99 on Amazon and $62.99 on Hifigo for the Blue pair, Hifigo has the "Pink" / Flesh tone for $45.99:
https://hifigo.com/products/kinera-yh623-truly-anc-wireless-bluetooth-earbuds?variant=31134916345905


----------



## ares946

hmscott said:


> Where do you find the Kinera YH623 for $55?, I see $69 on Amazon and $62 on Hifigo for the Blue pair, Hifigo has the "Pink" / Flesh tone for $45.99:
> https://hifigo.com/products/kinera-yh623-truly-anc-wireless-bluetooth-earbuds?variant=31134916345905
> 
> Thanks for the nice review, I've been looking for another set of TWS's and forgot about these after they released...


I bought them on Aliexpress from the seller AK Audio store. Before buying, I wrote to several sellers about the discount on these headphones. AK audio answered first and offered $ 55 for them  try to talk to all the sellers on Ali about discounts on this model, and you can always bargain on the basis that the model is not new and now for the same money there are other more interesting headphones, and that Kinera with a start of their kickstarter company selled this model for a $55


----------



## onkarmastermind

Anyone here has heard lypertek tevi? Purely for sound? & also fit & how to get best fit/isolation for running? Like are foam tips best or silicon?


----------



## TK33

onkarmastermind said:


> Anyone here has heard lypertek tevi? Purely for sound? & also fit & how to get best fit/isolation for running? Like are foam tips best or silicon?



Those have been discussed quite a bit here.  If you do a search in this thread for Tevi at the top of the page you might find some helpful impressions (I have not heard them myself).


----------



## d3myz (Oct 16, 2020)

BigZ12 said:


> Maybe a stupid question, but;
> Can a TWS/BT headset sound better on the new iPhone 12 Pro vs my 3 year old iPhone X?


Not a stupid question, but No. Still BT 5.0. I would of thought apple would of moved to BT 5.1,5.2 whatever the newer standard is, but @SenorChang8  is right, the new antenna in design in the 12 will have allow for much better connection.


----------



## d3myz (Oct 16, 2020)

SenorChang8 said:


> The bottle neck is the AAC codec. However the BT signal should be better than the X.
> 
> Apple’s refusal to improve upon AAC is making me seriously consider switching to Android for the first time.


The X actually has a better Qualcomm chipset than the Intel in the the XS and 11. I'm not sure if the BT is better but the Cellular Antenna is much better.   Intel S$%T the bed, so Apple moved back to Qualcomm for the Iphone 12 and AFAIK intel is not making mobile 5g cellular antenna chipsets yet.


----------



## Peddler (Oct 16, 2020)

onkarmastermind said:


> Anyone here has heard lypertek tevi? Purely for sound? & also fit & how to get best fit/isolation for running? Like are foam tips best or silicon?



The Tevi's are a superb TWS. They have a good degree of water resistance, have excellent battery life and, most importantly, sound utterly wonderful.  I would not hesitate in recommending them.

Strangely I'm normally a silicon user but with the Tevi's I'm using their supplied sticky foamies - excellent fit but not sure when I'm going to find replacements when the time comes.


----------



## logiatype

Peddler said:


> The Tevi's are a superb TWS. They have a good degree of water resistance, have excellent battery life and, most importantly, sound utterly superb.  I would not hesitate in recommending them.


Only issues with the Tevi are
1. No iOS app (android app is not in the store but can be downloaded off dropbox)
2. Buttons can be annoying compared to touch (subjective)


----------



## howdy

logiatype said:


> Only issues with the Tevi are
> 1. No iOS app (android app is not in the store but can be downloaded off dropbox)
> 2. Buttons can be annoying compared to touch (subjective)


I listened to my Tevis yesterday for the first to in awhile and still love the sound! I agree with the buttons, I wish they where a lot easier to push in like the Powetbeats Pro. I always use my phone to change volume/songs so I don't push them in my ear.


----------



## dwells

FIIL responded to me about the USB-C issue, claiming it’s by design because USB-C to USB-C is only meant for high current devices and can damage the battery, which is misleading at absolute best, and frankly a lie if we’re gonna call a spade a spade. Any properly designed device should be able to regulate how much current it draws - as proven by countless other USB-C devices with small batteries that support C-to-C charging and negotiate and appropriate current and voltage.


----------



## Sam L

Just read bartig / scarbir's review of the oppo enc w51. Anyone else try these?


----------



## Caipirina

typhoon838 said:


> Has anybody had issues with the apollo bold not charging? If I use the headphones for a while and then put them in the (fully charged) case, and leave them in overnight, even with the case closed, sometimes I'll take them out and will see that they're still below 10%. This is a dealbreaker and I'm wondering if there's something wrong with them so I can send them back for a replacement. I'm using the included eartips, medium size.


Somewhere in the past posts is a picture of how I padded the lid with some random paper I had (still not upgraded to some nicer foam, since it works nicely 'as is') and that fixed the issue ... no charging problems since then, they just need a bit of extra pressure onto the contacts


----------



## Caipirina

ares946 said:


> Hi all! Today I would like to make a mini-review on the interesting True wireless headphones *Whizzer B6*, shaped like beans.
> Let's get started!
> 
> 
> ...


Nice Mini Review! 

Had them for a while and while there is nothing really to not like, they don't get much play time here. 
I get a great fit, they sound great ... what ticks me off is that I never know which way I hold the case and if I get left / right correct (I have to take my glasses off and squint - old man style - at the lettering) ... they are also not easy to get out of the case, no one hand operation.


----------



## tgx78

Such a nice tonality on the n400. 
Pinna gain is oh so perfect for my taste.


----------



## cheesesteak

dwells said:


> FIIL responded to me about the USB-C issue, claiming it’s by design because USB-C to USB-C is only meant for high current devices and can damage the battery, which is misleading at absolute best, and frankly a lie if we’re gonna call a spade a spade. Any properly designed device should be able to regulate how much current it draws - as proven by countless other USB-C devices with small batteries that support C-to-C charging and negotiate and appropriate current and voltage.


what cable did you use, I realised if the cable only supports pd protocol like the Apple USB c, it doesn’t work to charge USB c devices w/o pd protocol. I used the ugreen cable which supports multiple protocols, and it works on my old rha trueconnect, aviot and nuarl.


----------



## tma6

Got the earfun air pros coming Monday. Will give impressions


----------



## duo8

hmscott said:


> Good to know, I haven't tried the Xelastec models yet, the Short's were working for me.
> 
> Do you mean the AirPods Pro Xlastec?  Those look like they have an extra large stepped opening to accommodate the AirPods Pro new model with the large flange fitting.
> 
> ...


Well that didn't work out and I didn't get to try the APP version. 
Normal Xelastec fits on the Buds/Buds+, but the stem is too long. The APP version has a shorter stem, much like the tips that come with the Buds.
With detailed dimensions of the tip I could compare them but those are not provided unlike with the normal Xelastec.


----------



## FYLegend

dwells said:


> FIIL responded to me about the USB-C issue, claiming it’s by design because USB-C to USB-C is only meant for high current devices and can damage the battery, which is misleading at absolute best, and frankly a lie if we’re gonna call a spade a spade. Any properly designed device should be able to regulate how much current it draws - as proven by countless other USB-C devices with small batteries that support C-to-C charging and negotiate and appropriate current and voltage.


That just sounds like a cop-out considering the T1 Pro apparently charges C2C. El Jefe said he once tried using a high-power charger on a Type-C earbud and "almost started a fire", but unless you have an overkill, "unintelligent" power adapter I doubt anything wrong will happen - except maybe deteriorating the case battery.  That said I have experienced some poor-battery-life cases which could be down to using fast-charge bricks (I don't have any standard bricks to use). The TaoTronics SoundLiberty 94 has one of the worst case battery life I've experienced, I fully charged it with a QC2.0 charger yesterday and today I used it for about 4 hours and later discovered my case was completely depleted.  The Galaxy Buds+ isn't that much better though - it sometimes only lasts me 6 hours before it is depleted (fortunately the buds can be powered off in the case unlike the TaoTronics, and do last for another 10-12 hours). I don't know if either of these issues is due to fast-charging damaging the battery or just bad design. Sabbat E12 Ultra has much better case battery life but a friend of mine said their case battery became depleted. This is why many brands insist customers to use either the bundled cable or something that's 5V/1A, but if all is well on both ends, I don't think this is necessary! I'm not going to buy an outdated 5W charger just for my TWS...

Speaking of Galaxy Buds+ my right bud seems to get drained after a week or two of not using them. The charge LED is green but then show red once I re-seat the bud, so it seems the contacts aren't sealed. This happened to me a few weeks ago as well and after a thorough clean everything seemed fine but something tells me the contacts just aren't that secure...


----------



## Stourmead

Just got my MW07 go’s replaced by M&D (original left bud was faulty)

man these sound amazing even on iPhone Bluetooth, and they are SO extra in lime green 💕


----------



## BigZ12

onkarmastermind said:


> Anyone here has heard lypertek tevi? Purely for sound? & also fit & how to get best fit/isolation for running? Like are foam tips best or silicon?





Peddler said:


> The Tevi's are a superb TWS. They have a good degree of water resistance, have excellent battery life and, most importantly, sound utterly wonderful.  I would not hesitate in recommending them.
> Strangely I'm normally a silicon user but with the Tevi's I'm using their supplied sticky foamies - excellent fit but not sure when I'm going to find replacements when the time comes.


You can buy the Flexfit foam here. (The same as included in the package)
https://www.lypertek.com/product-page/flexfit-foam-tips-set

I like the Comply Foam for the Tevis better. I miss some sub-bass with the Flexfit.
I think they are almost perfect. Sound/bass, comfort (also with buttons), seal, no driver flex or other noise while chewing and (almost) no "thump" while walking/jogging.
https://www.complyfoam.com/products/twzz-truegrip-for-1more-tw/ 



logiatype said:


> Only issues with the Tevi are
> 1. No iOS app (android app is not in the store but can be downloaded off dropbox)
> 2. Buttons can be annoying compared to touch (subjective)



I was lucky to install the iOS app before it disappeared from App Store. It still works.
Ref buttons, you have to use foam tips for them to be comfortable. With silicone it feels like you're pushing the buds in the ear. Much better with foam tips.

My only concern is fit. I have ears that's built for TWS/in-ears but the only one sticking out a little too much is the Tevis. They could be more snug...


----------



## regancipher

ares946 said:


> I bought them on Aliexpress from the seller AK Audio store. Before buying, I wrote to several sellers about the discount on these headphones. AK audio answered first and offered $ 55 for them  try to talk to all the sellers on Ali about discounts on this model, and you can always bargain on the basis that the model is not new and now for the same money there are other more interesting headphones, and that Kinera with a start of their kickstarter company selled this model for a $55


How's the fit on the Kinera? They look a bit bulky


----------



## regancipher

FYLegend said:


> El Jefe has confirmed to me the T1 Pro charges C2C and then suggested there might be issues with higher watt chargers. That said, the fact that yours won't charge with the ZMI 18W suggests it doesn't work anyways. All of my C2C-charging TWS charge with my 18W PD power bank.
> 
> I had their Earfun Free last year, it very well supports USB C2C charging. It's a shame the Indiegogo launch was somewhat of a disaster with my right bud failing to output audio after less than a week and Earfun was unable to give me a replacement because mine was the Oluv limited edition.
> 
> ...


I've also had no issue with usb-c to usb-c with the fiil using a tommax 18w pd charger and ugreen cable. 

I have noticed, though, that when the case battery gets low, wireless charging doesn't work. I've tried 3 different QI chargers - all the same result


----------



## SilverEars (Oct 17, 2020)

tgx78 said:


> Such a nice tonality on the n400.
> Pinna gain is oh so perfect for my taste.


Very curious.  Crin says it's the better version of Galaxy buds.  I don't expect good ANC from Samsung however.

Bose QC buds weren't worth having due to mainly the bulky size and wing tips not holding it in place while jogging.  Also, case is unnecessarily big, it's a master and slave audio connection, touch controls are too limiting, it's basically too 2018 like TWS.  Too bad because sound and ANC I find to be the best traits.  Best bass of TWS.

Stil sticking with my APP for practical reasons until something TRUELY worth switching over to comes along.


----------



## webvan (Oct 17, 2020)

Again, why on earth would anyone want to jog with the QC buds ? They're huge, have the dreaded "thump" (like all non earbud designs that completely spoils the listening experience) and have ANC that can't be turned off so the mics will pick up wind noise. I could understand that from someone completely new to TWEs but here ? With their relative bulk, weak passive isolation that doesn't cut out conversations much, the QC are designed for long haul flights/train/car trips or "cubicles". The APPs only solve the bulk and ANC OFF aspects BTW, the thud is still there in spite of the "marketing". Regular runners should really do themselves a favor and experience the pleasure of running without the "thud", it's easy and cheap too thanks to the X12s that have been around for 2 years now.


----------



## webvan

BigZ12 said:


> You can buy the Flexfit foam here. (The same as included in the package)
> https://www.lypertek.com/product-page/flexfit-foam-tips-set
> 
> I like the Comply Foam for the Tevis better. I miss some sub-bass with the Flexfit.
> ...



I've always found the Comply Foams to make the sound very dull ? Atlhough in the case of the Tevi's that have been described as a bit too bright that might not be too much of a problem. And there is the poor durability, for which sweat wouldn't help ? But (almost) no thump is a big plus ! Amazon had them at 70€ this week and I was tempted but they seem to have the same shape as the Mpow M5 and that form factor just does not work well for my ears, probably too small, unlike the SiFi II or Amazon Echo Buds.


----------



## actorlife (Oct 17, 2020)

Some little bird told me to get these. 👏😎 Said to be as good as my treasured Anbes. Mpow M30 ordered. Will be here Tuesday!
I also ordered the NEW Hiby R2!!!🤓🎼🤪😎


----------



## Luke Skywalker

hifi80sman said:


> So, this morning I reached for my Bose QC Earbuds and got a low battery warning (both were at exactly 5%) after being in the case all night long.  The case was not out of juice (2nd light).
> 
> Charging the case and buds now, so we'll see how they hold up and if this continues or was a fluke.


Oh man that sucks... strangely, every time I’ve plugged my case in to charge over the last few days I see 5 solid white lights which implies that it’s fully charged.  I’ve worn them for like an hour and they still show 100% on the app. i kind of expected mediocre battery life 

hope your issue resolves


----------



## howdy

Can't wait for some reviews on the 85ts, hopefully they'll be great. I'm excited for them and have always liked Jabra. I have the 75ts right now and use them at work all the time.


----------



## Luke Skywalker

Kalli said:


> Do it!


I want AirPlay TWS buds   or even headphones. supposedly lossless. Can you imagine?


----------



## Luke Skywalker

webvan said:


> Again, why on earth would anyone want to jog with the QC buds ? They're huge, have the dreaded "thump" (like all non earbud designs that completely spoils the listening experience) and have ANC that can't be turned off so the mics will pick up wind noise. I could understand that from someone completely new to TWEs but here ? With their relative bulk, weak passive isolation that doesn't cut out conversations much, the QC are designed for long haul flights/train/car trips or "cubicles". The APPs only solve the bulk and ANC OFF aspects BTW, the thud is still there in spite of the "marketing". Regular runners should really do themselves a favor and experience the pleasure of running without the "thud", it's easy and cheap too thanks to the X12s that have been around for 2 years now.


I run for an hour a day on the treadmill at the gym with my Bose and it’s pretty sweet. I love the ANC to cut out all the noise which my beloved N6P’s can’t do.  I do notice the thump you mentioned of my feet slapping the treadmill but It doesn’t really bother me


----------



## MayaTlab

Luke Skywalker said:


> I want AirPlay TWS buds   or even headphones. supposedly lossless. Can you imagine?



Could Ultra Wideband technology be suited to audio transmission ?


----------



## mikp (Oct 18, 2020)

after 30+ hours of hiking with the apollo bold im really liking these buds. but that touch sensitivity + sweaty fingers can be interesting...
touch feedback with a beep would be nice


----------



## jant71

Nice Saturday after the work week and some bad weather moving out allowed me to take the Cleer Goal out for a real test spin. A total success I think. Did the full court basketball test and it gets an A+. Need to walk totally out of the court almost 30 feet till my first drop so 75 feet unobstructed without issue. Even 50 feet and turning to my sides putting my body or head at least between the device and each side caused no drops. Otherwise quick connection before I looked down at the device after putting them in they were connected. Zero connection issues when I was not testing the limits.

Fit is indeed sweet just the front of the driver in front and the fin in the back touch making them less obtrusive and less there so a bit more comfy and enjoyable to wear. Great but still unfamiliar very stable fit combine with less touch is kinda cool. They feel like they aren't really in well with the light touch yet they aren't going anywhere.

As an earpod style driver they allow ambient noise in and zero thump running around, no noise from a racquet traveling up the arm or grabbing and even dribbling a basketball close is better. Noise that would conduct no longer does and stays in the background behind the drivers more "up front' presentation. So you can hear things yet some things are less invasive.

Sound is warm neutral really. I have about 24 hour on the 13.4mm driver at this point. Slightly warm in a quiet environs but outside sheds some note weight making them more close to neutral. Again this does depend on your ears and fit so the YMMV some works here.I still like a less bright or more bassy EQ outside playing sports and such but still good on a flat EQ even for bass just I do like more weight and thickness overall. They take EQ quite well as you might think an open and clean sound would or should. Sound is balanced and airy with the big stage. Of course more earbud or small speaker presentation than in-ear. Still the bass is low to sub focus and there is a clear lower note focus into a bit lower mid-bass that is very clean. Not an ear bud bass roll which is nice. Clarity is very nice esp. on aptX but even on SBC. Very natural and accurate tone, a nice amount of detail. Of course having the airy signature eliminates any congestion and allows more things to be easily heard as far as detail and separation and imaging. The best I have heard in TWS though I haven't sampled too many while waiting for better stuff(will get the new Aviot triple hybrid when it drops) and the 5.2 LC3+ codec to come.

Would love to hear these and the BOSE Sport compared I think I made the right choice between the two but not fair since I haven't tried the Bose but I mean for sound. I know the Cleer have full track and volume control, aptX and more battery and more ear fin adjustment ability and a smaller case so on the other stuff they do more and were $90 vs. $180. Outside of sound I couldn't justify the BOSE but sound is important.

Really recommend them if you are on the market for an open style. Everything is super solid and the only caveat would be the fit and what you get as far the the bass power but not unexpected with the form factor and certainly enough fit options, even ones not included, that it should end up working nicely for most everyone. Not the same like Sabat options that people complain about an unstable fit that is not for sports. The reason I never clicked buy on the Vooplay.


----------



## jant71

Speaking of the BOSE Sport I just saw this video went up...


----------



## Luke Skywalker

MayaTlab said:


> Could Ultra Wideband technology be suited to audio transmission ?


Check this out - 40 gigabits per second. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/IEEE_802.11ay


----------



## dwells

My Earfun Air Pro show up Tuesday, right in time for me to try them for a day before I fly on Wednesday and backpack around for a year or so. Supposedly they were actually made in collaboration with Edifier, with Earfun providing their ANC algorithm in exchange for being able to sell their own version. The Earfun seem to be a bit less “premium” - lower price, case is just plain plastic and not that nice instead of the faux leather Edifier has, and the exterior finish of the earbuds appears to be just a different black plastic as opposed to the metallic (aluminum?) finish of the Edifier TWS NB2.

Nonetheless, they seemed like a deal at $64, and if the comfort is good and the sound is at least close to the FIIL, _and _the case is pocketable and supports C2C charging, I’ll wind up sticking with those.


----------



## MayaTlab (Oct 18, 2020)

Luke Skywalker said:


> Check this out - 40 gigabits per second. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/IEEE_802.11ay



I was rather thinking about UWB technology akin to what Apple is starting to implement in their devices in the form of the U1 chip. Wifi has inherent limitations for real-time audio and power consumption. I'm not sure what UWB allows to do in terms of wireless audio but perhaps it could combine Wifi's data rate with very little lag, all the while consuming low enough power to be easily embedded in wearables like TW earbuds.

Perhaps this could finally what could put in practice, even in power constrained devices like TW earbuds, lossless wireless audio + 100m range + 60-80 ms lag + easy and robust multiple devices audio syncing ?

That being said IMO current wireless bluetooth codecs are way less of a problem than poor wireless audio implementation in the first place (I've seen plenty of APTX enabled headphones that exhibited audible distortion) and even less of a problem than inadequate frequency response curves in general, lack of individualisation of the FR curve to the user's anatomy, and lack of advanced real time DSPs.

Let's just say that it's quite pointless to have LDAC on a pair of W*H*1000-XM3 given how horribly low-fi their frequency response curve looks like in the first place, for example.


----------



## clerkpalmer

Luke Skywalker said:


> Oh man that sucks... strangely, every time I’ve plugged my case in to charge over the last few days I see 5 solid white lights which implies that it’s fully charged.  I’ve worn them for like an hour and they still show 100% on the app. i kind of expected mediocre battery life
> 
> hope your issue resolves


I noticed my case is showing 5 lights as well after several uses this week.


----------



## Laethageal (Oct 18, 2020)

Wow, what a bummer.

The Edifier TWSNB2 I received this week and only used about 2 hours to compare them to my (also pretty new) L2P and then stored in the fully charged case, have already failed.

The right earbud will not power up at all. The left one do power up and connect almost instantly when I open the charging case, but for the life of me I could not get the right one to power up. Tried the double click to reset the earbud and do their interconnection again, but nothing ever happens with double click. The light in the case simply keep slowly flashing green showing it is charging the left bud.
Holding the connection button do lead to losing connection with my phone and rapid white/green flashes, but as soon as I connect it back only the left bud will work.

I also left the case charging (plugged in) with both earbud inside for 4 hours and tested everything I could think of without success. Leaving only the left bud in the case with cover on, the light flashes green showing it is charging correctly, but doing the same with the right bud will not make the light flash, clearly showing it not charging/faulty/other.

What a worthless piece of junk, I got 2 hours of use out of it before it broke by itself when lying on my desk for 3 days. I am contacting the seller on Aliexpress to see if they have any kind of warranty, but I doubt I have lost my money.


----------



## Tooros

Hi All. I’m lost. Quick question please. Does this dual “5.2” connection work with iPhones on iOS 14?


----------



## C_Lindbergh

I doubt it since it's not an apple product, and LE-audio isn't a thing yet.


----------



## Pwn3r4Life

What's the go-to recommendation for a TWS in-ear for ~$200? I plan to use these for working out and my budget is flexible. I have CIEMs so the adapters are appealing but the reviews appear generally negative.


----------



## tgx78 (Oct 18, 2020)

Just got around to measure the Bold

Jazz  EQ setting in Tronsmart’s is good.




Compared to the UM MEST for fun.




vs n400


----------



## tgx78 (Oct 18, 2020)

Haylou GT1 Plus


----------



## FYLegend

regancipher said:


> I've also had no issue with usb-c to usb-c with the fiil using a tommax 18w pd charger and ugreen cable.
> 
> I have noticed, though, that when the case battery gets low, wireless charging doesn't work. I've tried 3 different QI chargers - all the same result


So it does seem like an iterative improvement over the T1XS, but dumbfounding why they would tell users they intentionally made the that one C-to-A only except a) sell you the more expensive product and b) push you to use older chargers with an older cable "to be safe".

Wireless charging compatibility has been hit or miss on the TWS I've used. Some cases don't charge with certain 10W chargers, which may be related to whether the charger can adjust its power. The Sabbat E12 Ultra works with most chargers EXCEPT Samsung's. The Astrotec S60 and Earfun Free Qi charging are rather picky with 10W chargers, while Jabees Firefly Pro and Samsung Galaxy Buds+ work with everything I've used so far and can even charge while leaning on Samsung's stand. However, the Buds+ won't charge/charge slowly when in hot weather.


----------



## FYLegend

Has anyone noticed that during a Bluetooth dropout where the left-right buds cut out asynchronously, there is an odd "zap" sensation going across their heads? I'm no radiation conspiracy theorist, but even if it's just a placebo it is sometimes uncomfortable (can't say for sure if it leads to headaches etc.).


----------



## Kalli

Luke Skywalker said:


> I want AirPlay TWS buds   or even headphones. supposedly lossless. Can you imagine?


I don't really know what AirPlay is, since I hate Apple too much for their overall shady business model (nothing I want to discuss here ), but isn't it transmitting over WiFi, which would require the buds to connect to a some kind of hotspot on your phone?


----------



## Rayners

https://gizaudio.com/xiaomi-mi-air-2-pro-surfaced/

Aren't they the first LDAC TWS iems ? They also support AptX Adaptative and LDHC


----------



## phaeton70

umh... leaked infos are contradictory, many sites report that these new MIAP2 support AAC and LHDC only... no aptX and no LDAC, which is a major drawback for me (LHDC smarphones are very rare, if existing at all)


----------



## Cerebro

jant71 said:


> Nice Saturday after the work week and some bad weather moving out allowed me to take the Cleer Goal out for a real test spin. A total success I think. Did the full court basketball test and it gets an A+. Need to walk totally out of the court almost 30 feet till my first drop so 75 feet unobstructed without issue. Even 50 feet and turning to my sides putting my body or head at least between the device and each side caused no drops. Otherwise quick connection before I looked down at the device after putting them in they were connected. Zero connection issues when I was not testing the limits.
> 
> Fit is indeed sweet just the front of the driver in front and the fin in the back touch making them less obtrusive and less there so a bit more comfy and enjoyable to wear. Great but still unfamiliar very stable fit combine with less touch is kinda cool. They feel like they aren't really in well with the light touch yet they aren't going anywhere.
> 
> ...



Sounds great for sports. Do you know if it does aac? From the cleer site it seems like it doesn’t, which would be a downer for iPhone.


----------



## jant71

Cerebro said:


> Sounds great for sports. Do you know if it does aac? From the cleer site it seems like it doesn’t, which would be a downer for iPhone.



 Manual says SBC, aptX, mp3 for the codecs.


----------



## TWSMan

Have done a review of the Apollo Bold together with some comparisons to other earbuds:

https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/tronsmart-apollo-bold.24533/review/24570/


----------



## Kalli

TK33 said:


> I recently did a hour and half commute into NYC with the Galaxy Buds Live for the first time since the COVID shutdowns and was initially bummed I left my SE846 at home...then I realized how convenient they are with the open design and ANC (helped with train AC noise but could still hear announcements). They did not leave my ears until I was in my office or back home (after I washed my hands and applied generous amounts of hand sanitizer). Not having any wires is nice when you have to wear a mask.


I tested the Beans. So far not impressed at all.

Sound wise they are quite bad. Even the music from my speakers coming through the Beans (when not playing music) sounds better. AAC on Android (due to lacking aptX support) with the dynamic preset, which sounds the best by far.

And the ANC seems to do nothing except a slight bass boost. I tested it playing some noise with my speakers and toggling ANC on the Beans. Except for the bass boost there is no noise reduction whatsoever as far as I can tell.


----------



## TK33

Kalli said:


> I tested the Beans. So far not impressed at all.
> 
> Sound wise they are quite bad. Even the music from my speakers coming through the Beans (when not playing music) sounds better. AAC on Android (due to lacking aptX support) with the dynamic preset, which sounds the best by far.
> 
> And the ANC seems to do nothing except a slight bass boost. I tested it playing some noise with my speakers and toggling ANC on the Beans. Except for the bass boost there is no noise reduction whatsoever as far as I can tell.



Sorry to hear.  Seems like we just have different preferences.  I personally started using them on Treble Boost then briefly on the Clear Setting.  I am now using them on Normal.  Based on your EQ setting preferences, I think we just have different tastes and, as many others have said here, it may just be differences in fit, expectations or simply personal preference.  For overall comfort/fit and convenience (what I look for in TWS) the Galaxy Buds Live have replaced my Senn MTWs and MW07 Go, both of which I rarely use now.  While the MTW and MW07 Go certainly have better SQ to my ears.  I prefer IEMs with passive isolation for when I really care about SQ and use my SE846 instead.  

The Galaxy Buds Live have been fantastic for calls (my main use case) and I use them for calls a few hours every day.  I was just noting that I was pleasantly surprised at how great they were for the commute to my office in NYC.

I think there is a general misunderstanding of what ANC is supposed to do on the Galaxy Buds Live. They are an open design and they will not be able to block outside noises like IEMs with good isolation do.  ANC basically helps filter out low frequency sounds but you will still be able to hear people around you (or your music playing on speakers).  It made a very noticeable difference for me for the noise from the train's HVAC system.  As I noted in my last post, I could still hear the announcements so I would not miss my stop but it did eliminate most of the fan noise.  I also sit right next to a fairly large 15000 BTU PTAC unit in my room and it made a noticeable difference for me when the unit was running.  Again, it is open so it cannot block out all the external noise but I think it does what it was meant to do. Your mileage may vary.


----------



## jasonb

I've had a love/hate relationship with the Buds Live the entire time I've had them. Sometimes I like them a lot, then other times I think I should have returned them when I had the chance.


----------



## Kalli

TK33 said:


> Sorry to hear.  Seems like we just have different preferences.  I personally started using them on Treble Boost then briefly on the Clear Setting.  I am now using them on Normal.  Based on your EQ setting preferences, I think we just have different tastes and, as many others have said here, it may just be differences in fit, expectations or simply personal preference.  For overall comfort/fit and convenience (what I look for in TWS) the Galaxy Buds Live have replaced my Senn MTWs and MW07 Go, both of which I rarely use now.  While the MTW and MW07 Go certainly have better SQ to my ears.  I prefer IEMs with passive isolation for when I really care about SQ and use my SE846 instead.
> 
> The Galaxy Buds Live have been fantastic for calls (my main use case) and I use them for calls a few hours every day.  I was just noting that I was pleasantly surprised at how great they were for the commute to my office in NYC.
> 
> I think there is a general misunderstanding of what ANC is supposed to do on the Galaxy Buds Live. They are an open design and they will not be able to block outside noises like IEMs with good isolation do.  ANC basically helps filter out low frequency sounds but you will still be able to hear people around you (or your music playing on speakers).  It made a very noticeable difference for me for the noise from the train's HVAC system.  As I noted in my last post, I could still hear the announcements so I would not miss my stop but it did eliminate most of the fan noise.  I also sit right next to a fairly large 15000 BTU PTAC unit in my room and it made a noticeable difference for me when the unit was running.  Again, it is open so it cannot block out all the external noise but I think it does what it was meant to do. Your mileage may vary.


Yes, I'm looking for some nice sounding IEMs for commuting and occasional phone calls. A lot of IEMs dont fit my ears well though. And I also liked the idea of having open design to hear my surroundings when needed. At the moment I'm trying to find a way to make my T2+ wireless.
On the ANC part. I'm totally aware of that. I'm not expecting Sony XM3/4 ANC at all. I don't really like that kind of "total silence ANC". But for me the ANC on the Beans does nothing to block any kind of noise whatsoever. For example the laptop fan on my desk. It's noise level is just exactly the same with ANC on or off.



jasonb said:


> I've had a love/hate relationship with the Buds Live the entire time I've had them. Sometimes I like them a lot, then other times I think I should have returned them when I had the chance.


I can return them until end of January.


----------



## DigDub

I like the galaxy beans too. It's my daily driver now. It's not the most detailed treble or has the most textured bass. It does not demand the listener to analyze the music, but rather enjoy the music. I find myself often singing to the songs or tapping my feet when listening to the beans, rather than analyzing the music. They are also comfortable and lays flat in the ears, so sleeping on my side with them in my ears are no problem at all. I often fall asleep with them in my ears because they are so comfortable and their sound signature is warm and soothing. I seldom use the ANC, but when I do, which is usually on bus with noisy engine, they are able to reduce the engine sound quite well.


----------



## myltz400 (Oct 19, 2020)

Beans are my go to now also.  Nobody mentions the different ways you can wear them. If you put them in as directed they have natural "pass through" and  are great for background music while hearing all your surroundings.  I also wear them more in the ear, this is where you will benefit from the noise cancelling and like it or not thumping bass.  For those that don't think there is anc try the later technique while flying or around a mower and turn anc off and on.  The anc is on par with my APP and Echo Buds. I mentioned before that I believe people are experiencing the APP anc by only toggling them between "passthrough and on" which is very dramatic.  For me to compare anc I have to skip the passthrough feature and have the headphones in the same environment for a real  a and b comparison.


----------



## BigZ12 (Oct 19, 2020)

Has everyone in here sold their MTW2s?
It's strange that so few are talking about the new app setting; "High-End Sound Tuning".
I am in awe! With a couple of extra db's in the mids/high with the EQ, they are sensational by my taste.


----------



## regancipher

Just ordered the KZ SA08 and 1more Colorbuds ESS6001T.....minor bug bear of mine is the pressure in-ears put on the tragus, I mean it's not a show-stopper but my Whizzer E3's, which I used to love, are gonna have to go now, and even the FIIL T1XS is a bit much


----------



## Luke Skywalker

FYLegend said:


> Has anyone noticed that during a Bluetooth dropout where the left-right buds cut out asynchronously, there is an odd "zap" sensation going across their heads? I'm no radiation conspiracy theorist, but even if it's just a placebo it is sometimes uncomfortable (can't say for sure if it leads to headaches etc.).


Yeah I get that with my Jabra 65's but only when I'm sitting in our massage chair at home.  It's very weird and I have no idea it's only in that one place in my whole house.  Phone is two feet away from me at the time


----------



## VICosPhi

Jabra 85t are now available for preorder!


----------



## cr3ativ3

BigZ12 said:


> I really love my Senn' MTW2s with the new "High-End Sound Tuning" and these EQ settings.


u´re a little treble head ? arent you ?


----------



## BigZ12

cr3ativ3 said:


> u´re a little treble head ? arent you ?


I like "sparkly" highs without sibilance. 
With the new tuning, the MTW2s are warmer sounding. That's why my EQ settings needed some extra mids/highs. 
BUT they are not sibilant with extra treble, like with the original firmware. 
The soundstage are noticably wider. Bass is deeper, soo punchy and don't need any EQ'ing.


----------



## d3myz (Oct 19, 2020)

Looked what popped up on Amazon UK Today! Nuarl N6 Mini anyone tried these yet?


----------



## tma6

Just got the EarFun Air Pros in. Gonna charge em up and will give first impressions shortly.


----------



## tma6

d3myz said:


> Looked what popped up on Amazon UK Today! Nuarl N6 Mini anyone tried these yet?



Ohhh I really like the new design!


----------



## tma6

First impressions of the Earfuns: 

- pretty good W shape sig, mids and vocals a little forward, highs are crisp but on some songs there’s a little sibilance, can sometimes get a lil harsh round like 2-3k.
- bass a bit boomy but solid texture
- surprisingly good instrument separation and detail for the price
- doesn’t get too loud, but at like 90% vol it’s def loud enough for me
- some weird tonality in the mids.

Overall they’re good not great sounding. The GB+ are significantly better sounding, though the bass on the Earfuns is much punchier and impactful. Haven’t tried the ANC or calls yet but will update.


----------



## Toom

BigZ12 said:


> Has everyone in here sold their MTW2s?
> It's strange that so few are talking about the new app setting; "High-End Sound Tuning".
> I am in awe! With a couple of extra db's in the mids/high with the EQ, they are sensational by my taste.



The Senns are ace with the new tuning option, I agree - was blown away the other day when out and about with them using this new setting. Surely these are the best sounding TW set on the market? 

To answer your question though - I presume they are not mentioned here much because they are far too mainstream and not some obscure Chi-fi random selection of letters thing that costs three dollars.


----------



## d3myz (Oct 19, 2020)

So I went to EarFun's site to see if the discount code @tma6 posted would work, Unfortunately it did not. I tried Welcome30 and it gave me 30% off. It took the price of the Earfun Air Pros to $56, it doesn't look like they are shipping to the U.S. what a bummer.


----------



## Laethageal

d3myz said:


> So I went to EarFun's site to see if the discount code @tma6 posted would work, Unfortunately it did not. I tried Welcome30 and it gave me 30% off. It took the price of the Earfun Air Pros to $56, it doesn't look like they are shipping to the U.S. what a bummer.



Depending on which TWS you already own and if the Earfun Air pro are anything like the Edifier TWSNB2 I just received, I wouldn't recommend them much. 
- They do not stay put in the ear (yawning or laughing/smiling openly will always break the seal have have the bud start to dislodge and/or fall).
- The SQ is decent but not exceptional nor particularly engaging. If you have some good TWS, chances are this one will fall into a position where the SQ will not draw you toward them more than another you already like.
- The case feels cheap, is annoying and not convivial to open without looking at it to figure the right side to open it and even then, you need some nails to manage to have some grip on the microscopic edge the case has. Those biting their nails, beware.
- 1 week old and 2 hours on them, at about 90% charge before being put in a fully charged case, yet 1 bud was already dead by leaving them in the case sitting on the desk for 3 day. Managed to salvage the bud which wouldn't charge by plugging to small wire between the charging port of the bud to a small lipo battery, which gave it enough charge to be recognized by the case afterward.
- Call quality is really bad, at least if you only use 1 bud. Have not tested 2 as situation didn't arise yet, but my wife told me it was the worst she ever heard form me, often not being able to understand what I say. Pretty bad knowing I previously was using a cheap 18$ 1 ear call bud.
- Did I say the ergo are simply bad? I shared them with a friend while working to have his opinion and bending down, the bud fell down multiple time on him as well. I might have weird/small shaped ear, but he told me this was a first for him.
- Even thought it doesn't matter much, the box and included charging cable feels cheap/average. In fact, I have to jiggle the cable multiple time for it to charge my phone. It is an issue I have with cheap cable but that quality one do not have. I must confess it currently has no issue with the case but it does give the impression it will not last long.

It might seems pretty negative, but take it with a grain of salt. It simply means that to me, it has ok SQ but is pretty average for the rest. Someone who don't have any OK TWS and doesn't want to spend a lot should like it, but someone with others IEM available might find it underwhelming.


----------



## Precogvision (Oct 19, 2020)

Picked up a pair of Bose QuietComfort Earbuds over the weekend out of curiosity! Also finally got it working on the coupler and was able to take a measurement. Bass shelf has distortion because I wasn't able to get an airtight seal; I bet it's a good deal more elevated than that in the lower frequencies just from what I'm hearing. Onto some impressions:

Enjoying the bass response, most of it is sub-bass. Good bass texturing and dynamic slam. Undeniably some muddiness, but the way the shelf levels off is really nice.
Midrange is pretty unremarkable, and the treble dips pretty badly; extension is fairly non-existent. 
Struggles a lot with imaging in particular. Stage is compressed vertically, depth sounds almost inverted from what I'm used to, and positional cues are limited to left-right placement.
Not a bad tuning overall; they follow something close to neutral-warm with bass boost. Very easy on the ears for sure. Predictably, technicalities is where they fall short.


----------



## Sam L

Precogvision said:


> Picked up a pair of Bose QuietComfort Earbuds over the weekend out of curiosity! Also finally got it working on the coupler and was able to take a measurement. Bass shelf has distortion because I wasn't able to get an airtight seal; I bet it's a good deal more elevated than that in the lower frequencies just from what I'm hearing. Onto some impressions:
> 
> Enjoying the bass response, most of it is sub-bass. Good bass texturing and dynamic slam. Undeniably some muddiness, but the way the shelf levels off is really nice.
> Midrange is pretty unremarkable, and the treble dips pretty badly; extension is fairly non-existent.
> ...


I'm guessing that 13k spike is a coupler resonance point?


----------



## Precogvision

Sam L said:


> I'm guessing that 13k spike is a coupler resonance point?



8kHz is the coupler resonance peak. Everything after that on measurements shouldn’t be considered reliable. I don’t think the QuietComfort Buds extend at all for air lol.


----------



## tma6

d3myz said:


> So I went to EarFun's site to see if the discount code @tma6 posted would work, Unfortunately it did not. I tried Welcome30 and it gave me 30% off. It took the price of the Earfun Air Pros to $56, it doesn't look like they are shipping to the U.S. what a bummer.



Lol did I post a discount code? I don’t think I did? Hahah, no worries man you’re not missing out on much. They’re decent but not in love w the sound.


----------



## tma6

Precogvision said:


> Picked up a pair of Bose QuietComfort Earbuds over the weekend out of curiosity! Also finally got it working on the coupler and was able to take a measurement. Bass shelf has distortion because I wasn't able to get an airtight seal; I bet it's a good deal more elevated than that in the lower frequencies just from what I'm hearing. Onto some impressions:
> 
> Enjoying the bass response, most of it is sub-bass. Good bass texturing and dynamic slam. Undeniably some muddiness, but the way the shelf levels off is really nice.
> Midrange is pretty unremarkable, and the treble dips pretty badly; extension is fairly non-existent.
> ...



Thanks for your impressions man. These are looking like a big disappointment for the price. Not a fan of that design at all either.


----------



## erockg

Toom said:


> The Senns are ace with the new tuning option, I agree - was blown away the other day when out and about with them using this new setting. Surely these are the best sounding TW set on the market?
> 
> To answer your question though - I presume they are not mentioned here much because they are far too mainstream and not some obscure Chi-fi random selection of letters thing that costs three dollars.


I actually picked up the MTW2 Anniversary Edition and got them today.  Looking forward to testing out that new tuning option.


----------



## dwells

regancipher said:


> minor bug bear of mine is the pressure in-ears put on the tragus,


Ayyyy, oversensitive tragus buddies!

Man, the feedback in here about the Earfun Air Pro/Edifier TWS NB2 is not giving me much hope for the pair arriving tomorrow, yikes. Especially the mentions of sibilance. Looks like I'm likely going to be stuck with the FIIL T1 XS and the ridiculous C to A cable plus A to C adapter setup I'm using to charge the damn things.


----------



## Fudgebar

hey all i just joined today.....next post, i will be looking to you pros for recommedations on the best wireless TWS as of now.   I already own the following:

M&D Go   -very good
Fiil TXS  -very good
Enacafire Air -good
Edifier TW1 -good
Enacifier E18 - subpar


I am looking for the next cool sounding TWS for under $100
And I am also looking for the best sounding TWS for any price range


I got my eye on the Fiil T1  Pro  but Im not sure if its enough of a step up vs the T1XS Fiil that I already own

any help would be apreciated


----------



## FYLegend

Luke Skywalker said:


> Yeah I get that with my Jabra 65's but only when I'm sitting in our massage chair at home.  It's very weird and I have no idea it's only in that one place in my whole house.  Phone is two feet away from me at the time


Many of my TWS do this (especially those with Realtek chips) when I have my hand near the top-left corner of my Note 9 where the volume keys are (the Bluetooth modem is around here).

Galaxy Buds+ (Broadcom chip) and QCC3020 devices usually do it only in busy areas.


----------



## Laethageal (Oct 20, 2020)

Fudgebar said:


> hey all i just joined today.....next post, i will be looking to you pros for recommedations on the best wireless TWS as of now.   I already own the following:
> 
> M&D Go   -very good
> Fiil TXS  -very good
> ...


First of all, welcome!

You'll see there is an awesome community here, pretty helpful.

I am no expert, but the best sounding TWS I know and tested is the Soundcore L2P. There is many other great TWS such as the Sennheiser MTW2, AKG N400, Samsung Galaxy Buds+, Nuarl N6/N10 and maybe the upcoming Devialet Gemini I am curious about.

II will let people with more experience help you ;p


----------



## Kalli (Oct 20, 2020)

Toom said:


> The Senns are ace with the new tuning option, I agree - was blown away the other day when out and about with them using this new setting. Surely these are the best sounding TW set on the market?
> 
> To answer your question though - I presume they are not mentioned here much because they are far too mainstream and not some obscure Chi-fi random selection of letters thing that costs three dollars.


They're kind of bass heavy though?

Thinking about getting the Tin Hifi T2+ wireless, since they fit my ears and I like the sound. The Moondrop Starfield would be my first choice for sound, but unfortunately they don't fit my left ear...

EDIT: Any idea what the difference between the MTW2 and CX400BT is?


----------



## IEManiac

SL2P still the best sounding overall?


----------



## cr3ativ3 (Oct 20, 2020)

Kalli said:


> They're kind of bass heavy though?
> 
> Thinking about getting the Tin Hifi T2+ wireless, since they fit my ears and I like the sound. The Moondrop Starfield would be my first choice for sound, but unfortunately they don't fit my left ear...
> 
> EDIT: Any idea what the difference between the MTW2 and CX400BT is?


the cx400 has no anc and "hear trough" .. but both features are more bad than usefull on the mtw2 .  but mtw2 sounds really nice . havent heard the cx400 if the sound is the same. as mentioned before this new "high end tuning" sounds really great


----------



## phaeton70

Fudgebar said:


> ........
> I am looking for the next cool sounding TWS for under $100
> .........



well, if you are out for that, then maybe you could first check here: https://www.scarbir.com/truewireless


----------



## webvan

The L2Ps have been seen under $100


----------



## BigZ12

Toom said:


> The Senns are ace with the new tuning option, I agree - was blown away the other day when out and about with them using this new setting. Surely these are the best sounding TW set on the market?
> 
> To answer your question though - I presume they are not mentioned here much because they are far too mainstream and not some obscure Chi-fi random selection of letters thing that costs three dollars.


Did you try to raise the mids/highs a little in the EQ?


----------



## webvan

So the ANC update for the Jabra 75Ts was supposed to be out yesterday, has anyone been able to try it ?


----------



## Laethageal

phaeton70 said:


> well, if you are out for that, then maybe you could first check here: https://www.scarbir.com/truewireless


I checked his list/review for the fun of it. Has extremely weird taste IMHO. 

Mpow m30 and the TWSNB2 5 star, but L2P and Lypertek Tevi at 4 star... 
I wouldn't rely on his feedback.


----------



## Toom

BigZ12 said:


> Did you try to raise the mids/highs a little in the EQ?



No, why?


----------



## bronco1015

Hey all, Wow at the amount of posts since i was last in this thread. Still catching up. I hit the review jackpot on Saturday and accepted offers to review the shure Aonic 215, reallly just hoping the adapter is a good one and then will find a pair of iems to use with it, never been a fan of the 215 sound. But then also the Beoplay E8 Sport. Anyone heard the Aonic215 since they were re-released, or the E8 Sport? i've never listened to anything from b&O so i'm intrigued.


----------



## Aerosphere (Oct 20, 2020)

Anyone else curious about Etymotic's wireless cable/adapter?


----------



## jant71

Aerosphere said:


> Anyone else curious about Etymotic's wireless cable/adapter?



Hey this the true wireless thread. I see a wire there!  Why did Etymotic put a car battery on their BT cable?? Might need more than those two clips to hold it up. Not curious for many reasons. Kinda ugly, huge battery it seems, their design makes it good for their earphones but the angle coming out is bad for many others, $170 is pricey, 8 hour battery is very average.


----------



## d3myz

tma6 said:


> Thanks for your impressions man. These are looking like a big disappointment for the price. Not a fan of that design at all either.


Sorry, man. I was in a hurry when I was writing and just did a search on the forum. That's too bad, the design is pretty cool. The ear fun free sounds really good, I have two pair, but for me the design just doesn't work with my .....what's the term the cool kids say? "morphology". thanks for saving me $70


----------



## marcus2704

I have just pre-ordered the Jabra 85Ts, hoping they build on the 75Ts which I was very impressed with, but not quite to the extent of L2P which has so far (for me) seen off all competition to date.


----------



## jant71

Probably bassy being about DJ Daruma and Rave Yellow and Chill Purple and all that but they look pretty good...







Get some Purple just in time for Halloween?


----------



## Fudgebar

so based on the consensus here, it seems like the Anker Sound Core Liberty Pros are the best sounding TWS at any price range at the moment?   I assume that means they are also better sounding than the Sennheiser Momentum True Wireless 2 and all the Master Dynamic buds as well?


----------



## BigZ12

Toom said:


> No, why?


Just because I (my taste) think they sound better with the new tuning, in addition to raising mids/highs a couple of db's.


----------



## Rob E.

Fudgebar said:


> so based on the consensus here, it seems like the Anker Sound Core Liberty Pros are the best sounding TWS at any price range at the moment?   I assume that means they are also better sounding than the Sennheiser Momentum True Wireless 2 and all the Master Dynamic buds as well?



There is no consensus here on what's best sounding. To assume as much is simply wrong.


----------



## tma6

For anyone interested, here's my top 10 ranking of TWS based on sound quality alone. Just my opinion out of those that I've tried 

1. Nuarl N6 Pro
2. Lypertek TEVI
3. Sony WF 1000xm3
4. Sennheiser Momentum TW2
5. Soundcore Liberty 2 Pro
6. Master & Dynamic MW07+
7. Galaxy Buds+
8. FiiL T1X
9. Airpods Pro
10. Sabbat E12 Ultra

Also, here some of the reviews I've done so far on head-fi, though they might not have aged very well lol. I've since gone down the rabbit hole of high end wired IEMs and have come away with different opinions of many of the TWS I tried in the past. So for those who look at the reviews, keep in mind that this ranking constitutes my more up to date feelings. Still, the reviews might be helpful for those who want to know what some of these earbuds sound like. Last thing, if you want to see my review of the Lypertek TEVI, it's currently the first review that comes up on Amazon with the title "One of the best": 
https://www.amazon.com/LYPERTEK-TEV...vi&qid=1603220332&sr=8-3&th=1#customerReviews

Anyway, here are the reviews I've done:

Sony WF-1000xm3 Review:  https://www.head-fi.org/threads/goi...soon-or-are-we-there-yet.861024/post-15580181

Nuarl N6 Pro Review: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/goi...soon-or-are-we-there-yet.861024/post-15403547

Anker Soundcore Liberty 2 Pro Review: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/goi...soon-or-are-we-there-yet.861024/post-15321204

Master & Dynamic MW07 Plus Review: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/goi...re-we-there-yet.861024/page-944#post-15269289

Apple Airpods Pro Review: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/goi...e-we-there-yet.861024/page-1011#post-15296837

Sennheiser Momentum True Wireless 2 Impressions: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/goi...e-we-there-yet.861024/page-1416#post-15552019

AuSounds Au-Stream Hybrid Impressions: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/goi...soon-or-are-we-there-yet.861024/post-15530027


----------



## Fudgebar

TMa6, I like what you did there....very helpful. In fact, it made me think of an idea that could be very useful for everyone since this Thread is about 1780 pages deep.  I think it might be interesting and fun if others posted their top 5 or so favorite earbuds just to get an idea how varied we may or may not be

what do you guys think?


----------



## clerkpalmer

Fudgebar said:


> so based on the consensus here, it seems like the Anker Sound Core Liberty Pros are the best sounding TWS at any price range at the moment?   I assume that means they are also better sounding than the Sennheiser Momentum True Wireless 2 and all the Master Dynamic buds as well?


No this is not correct. It might be the consensus pick at the sub 150 price point but as for best overall, no I don't think so. It sounds great for the money.


----------



## jasonb

tma6 said:


> For anyone interested, here's my top 10 ranking of TWS based on sound quality alone. Just my opinion out of those that I've tried
> 
> 1. Nuarl N6 Pro
> 2. Lypertek TEVI
> ...



I haven't used my Tevi's in a while, but I'm trying them right now with the Xelastec tips and they are comfy and sound great with no EQ whatsoever. My Galaxy Beans and WF1000xm3 both need a decent amount of EQ for me to enjoy them, but the Tevi's just sound great as is.


----------



## logiatype

tma6 said:


> For anyone interested, here's my top 10 ranking of TWS based on sound quality alone. Just my opinion out of those that I've tried
> 
> 1. Nuarl N6 Pro
> 2. Lypertek TEVI
> ...



Haven't heard everything on this list but the ones I've heard would be in the same order 1, 2, 3, 7. N6P are the best I've heard with the Tevi's a close second.


----------



## Fudgebar

Curious, I noticed you had the  Nuarl N6 Pro on the top of your list as best sounding earbuds and on your list further down you have the Fiil T1X listed too.....Have you tried either the Fiil T1XS or the Fiil TI Pro?.....I read on that Scarbir link that was shared as it was one of the top sounding earbuds,  I was wondering how you feel about them?


----------



## tma6

Fudgebar said:


> Curious, I noticed you had the  Nuarl N6 Pro on the top of your list as best sounding earbuds and on your list further down you have the Fiil T1X listed too.....Have you tried either the Fiil T1XS or the Fiil TI Pro?.....I read on that Scarbir link that was shared as it was one of the top sounding earbuds,  I was wondering how you feel about them?



Haven't heard the new FiiLs, but if they're anything like the T1X then they should sound great. The T1X is still one of my favorite sounding budget pairs.


----------



## actorlife

actorlife said:


> Some little bird told me to get these. 👏😎 Said to be as good as my treasured Anbes. Mpow M30 ordered. Will be here Tuesday!
> I also ordered the NEW Hiby R2!!!🤓🎼🤪😎


Charging...


----------



## mixolyd

Fudgebar said:


> Fiil T1XS



I found the T1XS to have weak lower mids making male voices sound gutless and guitars artificial.  I couldn’t agree with Scarbir’s assessment at all.


----------



## d3myz

mixolyd said:


> I found the T1XS to have weak lower mids making male voices sound gutless and guitars artificial.  I couldn’t agree with Scarbir’s assessment at all.


I  just returned both pair of T1XS I had. The monitor mode was awful and suffered from weird sync or phasing issues. I A/B them with the MPOW M30 and for my ears the M30 was superior. Not quite as detailed in the highs, but very close and the mids of the M30 are very nice.


----------



## Fudgebar

wow, interesting.....I actually love my T1XS with the spinfit 360 buds.. I set the EQ to Bass mode and increase the volume in the app from the default 93% to 100% and find these sound better then my M&D Go earbuds.  

Curious what TWS do you guys think has the widest soundstage and layering to really allow multiple instruments to breath and add depth?


----------



## tma6

Fudgebar said:


> wow, interesting.....I actually love my T1XS with the spinfit 360 buds.. I set the EQ to Bass mode and increase the volume in the app from the default 93% to 100% and find these sound better then my M&D Go earbuds.
> 
> Curious what TWS do you guys think has the widest soundstage and layering to really allow multiple instruments to breath and add depth?



N6 Pro


----------



## Fudgebar

what is the difference between the N6 and the N6 Pro.  Is it just aesthetics or is it audio as well?


----------



## tma6

Fudgebar said:


> what is the difference between the N6 and the N6 Pro.  Is it just aesthetics or is it audio as well?



There's a big difference in the tuning. N6 is more midbassy and lacks the refinement, detail, and stage separation of the N6Pro in my opinion. N6 Pro is fantastic for the money but keep in mind that it's not a basshead set. That being said, I really like the bass on it as far as quality is concerned.


----------



## Luchyres

I am a Nuarl fan, and chose the N6 over the pro for the warmer tuning. I haven't tried both - @tma6 have you? 

I feel the N6 are still very detailed, but are less analytical. I picked the N6 due to my preferred music types (and love of bass), but I am not someone who is willing to sacrifice good sound for bass. 

I found the L2P to be compressed/peaky and, while I liked the bass, they weren't in the same league as the N6 for me in terms of enjoyment and so I shipped 'em right back. 

I'm keen on the N10, other than the size. I have 0 regrets about my N6 being my daily driver for the past few months and it has caused many a set to be sent back. (THERE CAN BE ONLY ONE!__maybe two: another waterproof one  for exercise__)


----------



## tma6

Luchyres said:


> I am a Nuarl fan, and chose the N6 over the pro for the warmer tuning. I haven't tried both - @tma6 have you?
> 
> I feel the N6 are still very detailed, but are less analytical. I picked the N6 due to my preferred music types (and love of bass), but I am not someone who is willing to sacrifice good sound for bass.
> 
> ...



Yeah I tried both! N6 was very good and much better than most out there. N6 Pro was just a bit more refined for me and had better end to end extension and staging, but it's definitely personal preference, particularly if you like more mid bass. The L2P is only really good in the Vocal Boost setting imo, did not love the default tuning. Responds well to EQ and the bass is unique and super fun.


----------



## Fudgebar

guys how would the Fiil T1 Pro compare to these?.....I really got my eye on that one. But if the SQ is much better on the N6, ill spend the extra cash


----------



## Luchyres

tma6 said:


> Yeah I tried both! N6 was very good and much better than most out there. N6 Pro was just a bit more refined for me and had better end to end extension and staging, but it's definitely personal preference, particularly if you like more mid bass. The L2P is only really good in the Vocal Boost setting imo, did not love the default tuning. Responds well to EQ and the bass is unique and super fun.


I can definitely imagine a bit more staging than the N6 with the midbass float, but damn it makes hip-hop fun. I alllllmost also bought the N6Pro just to have both lol (BUT THERE CAN BE ONLY ONE!)

I'm waiting on the Elite 85t Jabra, Huawei Freebuds Pro, and N10 Pro to see if any of them can unseat my N6. My only complaint about the N6 is that the mics will pic up ambient noise/echo if you're in a small room making a call. Wind noise can also be bad for the other person if particularly windy.

Keep us posted on what you get next @tma6 !


----------



## Luchyres

Fudgebar said:


> guys how would the Fiil T1 Pro compare to these?.....I really got my eye on that one. But if the SQ is much better on the N6, ill spend the extra cash


I'm tempted by the Fiil T1 line for the exercise purposes, but my hunch (not having heard them) is that the N6 is a tier above it for audio. If I were coming into this game fresh and capping myself at $100, I would very heavily lean toward the T1 Pro. I've considered it a few times for exercise, but I'm thinking I want to see what the Nuarl N6 Mini sounds like first if I'm going to get a pair to expose to wet environments. 

I don't think you'd be unhappy with the T1 Pro, but I'd push you toward the N6 Pro and potentially the upcoming N10 if you want ANC.


----------



## Fudgebar

what is N10?...is that also Nuarl?   Thanks for your completely objective and enthusiastic feedback!   Im exactly in that position, I wanted to keep it under 100 clams and I dont think there is a TWS that will do better sound than the T1 Pro, but I dont know, that is why I ask you guys....and If the N6 Pro is that evicerating, then I may pony up another 60 bucks and just get the N6 Pros.  The reason I am a bit hesitant is because I have the M&D Go which I spent $200 for and I feel that the T1XS buds are almost more energetic and engaging...so I was worried


----------



## tma6

Luchyres said:


> I can definitely imagine a bit more staging than the N6 with the midbass float, but damn it makes hip-hop fun. I alllllmost also bought the N6Pro just to have both lol (BUT THERE CAN BE ONLY ONE!)
> 
> I'm waiting on the Elite 85t Jabra, Huawei Freebuds Pro, and N10 Pro to see if any of them can unseat my N6. My only complaint about the N6 is that the mics will pic up ambient noise/echo if you're in a small room making a call. Wind noise can also be bad for the other person if particularly windy.
> 
> Keep us posted on what you get next @tma6 !



Will do man! Think the 85t or Freebuds Pro (if I can get em) are up next. The Jabras look promising!


----------



## Laethageal

Fudgebar said:


> what is N10?...is that also Nuarl?   Thanks for your completely objective and enthusiastic feedback!   Im exactly in that position, I wanted to keep it under 100 clams and I dont think there is a TWS that will do better sound than the T1 Pro, but I dont know, that is why I ask you guys....and If the N6 Pro is that evicerating, then I may pony up another 60 bucks and just get the N6 Pros.  The reason I am a bit hesitant is because I have the M&D Go which I spent $200 for and I feel that the T1XS buds are almost more energetic and engaging...so I was worried


If you like it better then your previous expensive pair, why get worried?
Simply enjoy, as you might have found one of the great tuning for your taste


----------



## dwells

Welp, the EarFun Air Pro aka Edifier TWS NB2 were also a no-go for me. Couldn’t get a good deal in my right ear with any of the three tips, and after five minutes I could really notice them in there, which means I’m sure they’d be uncomfortable after a half hour.

Sound seemed fine, but like I said, five minutes of listening tops. Some notes:

They do accept USB C-to-C charging.
Active noise canceling seemed pretty much useless for stuff like television noise and really “meh” for white noise.
Materials quality kinda sucks. Plasticky cheap feeling case, the earbuds and nozzles are pretty mediocre feeling matte plastic, the exterior isn’t the nice shiny metal finish of the Edifier buds.
The touch controls, for me at least, are awful. My success rate for the triple tap to change from standard/noise canceling/ambient mode was maybe 20%? Four out of five times it was registering as a double tap and invoking Siri instead.


----------



## Laethageal

Appart from the touch control issue, it looks similar to my early observation of the TWSNB2.

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/goi...soon-or-are-we-there-yet.861024/post-15927698


----------



## actorlife

actorlife said:


> Charging...


First impression sounded a bit too bassy, but clear treble. I adjusted the bass on the N3 and much better. Testing 5hr battery to see if it’s accurate.


----------



## chinmie

actorlife said:


> First impression sounded a bit too bassy, but clear treble. I adjusted the bass on the N3 and much better. Testing 5hr battery to see if it’s accurate.



if you like a more balanced tuning, you might want to give Tronsmart onyx free try. I'm really liking it as a whole package. if I'm nitpicking, the negative would be that it has less range than my other TWS (as i like to walk around the house with my phone on the table), and also because of the IPX 7 seal, some eartips would choke the sound if i move it inside my ears. the stock eartips works fine though, as well as the spinfit cp360 that i currently use with it. despite the shorter range, when it's within 7 meters the connection is really strong. it never stutter or break signal on me on that range


----------



## Inear

Anyone have the Jabra Elite 75t, the new update with ANC is out, can anyone test the ANC?


----------



## karloil

Speaking of the N6 Pro. I had my eye on this guy for months now. I already have a Tevi and the price is a bit too steep for me so that's why I'm still wasn't purchasing it. 

But last night, a local store did a flash sale that brought the N6 Pro's price down to $138 (converted) - so excited to pick it up over the weekend!


----------



## Laethageal

Today I've sent back my L2P for Soundcore to analyse my unit and see where the buzz in high pitched vocals came from. I should get a replacement unit in 1-2 week and feel sad to have to wait this long. I might have been better sending it back to Amazon and purchase another, I would have had it in a day, but at the same time I wanted to help them test my unit, so they can try and figure out a solution for it for their next model.

Meanwhile, I'll put more time on the TWSNB2, but I already miss the L2P.


----------



## Luchyres

Fudgebar said:


> what is N10?...is that also Nuarl?   Thanks for your completely objective and enthusiastic feedback!   Im exactly in that position, I wanted to keep it under 100 clams and I dont think there is a TWS that will do better sound than the T1 Pro, but I dont know, that is why I ask you guys....and If the N6 Pro is that evicerating, then I may pony up another 60 bucks and just get the N6 Pros.  The reason I am a bit hesitant is because I have the M&D Go which I spent $200 for and I feel that the T1XS buds are almost more energetic and engaging...so I was worried



If you like a very accurate, spacious sound, I think you would do well to spring for the N6 Pro especially if you can find a good deal like @karloil did. I do not think you will be disappointed.

The N10 Pro is the successor to the N6 Pro, and has a few updates, the highlight being ANC (which I don't care a ton about): https://nuarl.com/en/n10pro/

The N6 Mini is the small/sport version of the N6 but doesn't have HDSS (Nuarl sound tech/design) so I am not confident it will have the tonality of the others (I want to try them first).

Having also tried the M&D MWO7+, I did not find them worth the money and would encourage you to sell yours MW07 Gos and to buy the N6 Pro instead of the Fiil.

I am not a hobby reviewer, I just am really, really picky.


----------



## Fudgebar

Anyone compare the N6 Pro to the new Bose Quiet Comfort?


----------



## actorlife (Oct 20, 2020)

karloil said:


> Speaking of the N6 Pro. I had my eye on this guy for months now. I already have a Tevi and the price is a bit too steep for me so that's why I'm still wasn't purchasing it.
> 
> But last night, a local store did a flash sale that brought the N6 Pro's price down to $138 (converted) - so excited to pick it up over the weekend!


I doubt better than the Tevi. Looking forward to a comparison!


----------



## tma6

actorlife said:


> I doubt better than the Tevi. Looking forward to a comparison!



It's better  TEVI still awesome tho.


----------



## actorlife

tma6 said:


> It's better  TEVI still awesome tho.


Can you elaborate? I’ve never heard of them?


----------



## tma6 (Oct 21, 2020)

actorlife said:


> Can you elaborate? I’ve never heard of them?



Here’s my review: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/goi...soon-or-are-we-there-yet.861024/post-15403547

Basically I’d say in a direct comparison, N6P have better bass texture, a bit more top end detail and realism, maybe slightly wider staging, and more separation and better timbre in the mids. The TEVIs are also fantastic and very detailed for the price, a bit smoother, less sharp in the highs, and have a bit more body in the lower mids.


----------



## webvan

Inear said:


> Anyone have the Jabra Elite 75t, the new update with ANC is out, can anyone test the ANC?



+1

In the meantime I found this video that shows the menus in the app after the update


----------



## VICosPhi

So Jabra 85t uses patented oval shaped tips...! And they use partially open design so it will be interesting how well they fit in the ears since we likely won't be able to use custom tips


----------



## actorlife (Oct 21, 2020)

tma6 said:


> Here’s my review: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/goi...soon-or-are-we-there-yet.861024/post-15403547
> 
> Basically I’d say in a direct comparison, N6P have better bass texture, a bit more top end detail and realism, maybe slightly wider staging, and more separation and better timbre in the mids. The TEVIs are also fantastic and very detailed for the price, a bit smoother, less sharp in the highs, and have a bit more body in the lower mids.


Thank you. Nice long battery is a plus. If they go on sale or used for $75 maybe. Let me go read your full review. Edit. Excellent description. I think I would like them. Maybe a Black Friday sale hopefully. A fellow New Yorker till I moved to Florida in 2017. I miss my city!


----------



## webvan

VICosPhi said:


> So Jabra 85t uses patented oval shaped tips...! And they use partially open design so it will be interesting how well they fit in the ears since we likely won't be able to use custom tips


That sounds a bit like the Bose StayFit or something like that


----------



## Kalli (Oct 21, 2020)

So, I tested my Samsung Beans on the bus yesterday. And ANC does nothing at all with the engine noise. It May be a faulty unit?

EDIT: For me the Beans are actually too small. I'm scared of dropping them when putting them in/out of my ears.


----------



## rhsauer

webvan said:


> +1
> 
> In the meantime I found this video that shows the menus in the app after the update



I updated my Jabra 75t's to ANC last night.  The upgrade took a while (when they say 15 minutes they mean it).  I can detect the ANC is there, but it's hard to tell exactly how effective it is while at home at 6am


----------



## logiatype

tma6 said:


> Here’s my review: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/goi...soon-or-are-we-there-yet.861024/post-15403547
> 
> Basically I’d say in a direct comparison, N6P have better bass texture, a bit more top end detail and realism, maybe slightly wider staging, and more separation and better timbre in the mids. The TEVIs are also fantastic and very detailed for the price, a bit smoother, less sharp in the highs, and have a bit more body in the lower mids.


I’d piggy back on this to say the Tevi’s have too much upper mids, definitely more narrow sound width, but better sub bass rumble. But the N6 sound so clean.

It’s a shame neither of them have decent EQ or they would be impossible to beat. I still need to try the N400 though.


----------



## webvan

rhsauer said:


> I updated my Jabra 75t's to ANC last night.  The upgrade took a while (when they say 15 minutes they mean it).  I can detect the ANC is there, but it's hard to tell exactly how effective it is while at home at 6am


Blast some YouTube cabin noise in headphones and fit them over your 75Ts!


----------



## kr0mka (Oct 21, 2020)

Kalli said:


> So, I tested my Samsung Beans on the bus yesterday. And ANC does nothing at all with the engine noise. It May be a faulty unit?
> 
> EDIT: For me the Beans are actually too small. I'm scared of dropping them when putting them in/out of my ears.



ANC needs very good passive isolation (either closed back on ear or iem) to provide good results. Since Beans are earbud like, all the noises just bleed through the weak ear-seal, making the ANC a bit pointless in my opinion.
So, that's not a faulty unit, thats just their design


----------



## Caipirina

actorlife said:


> Charging...


 I actually had sent mine back ... they got some much hype a few months back and yes, they sound pretty nice, but i could not get a good fit with those flimsy wings .. and well, nothing about them really excited me ... guess that's a very personal quest ... everyone else seems to love them


----------



## TWSMan

Looks like El Jefe has uploaded a video on the Jabra 75t with the new firmware update to enable ANC:


----------



## Caipirina

Anyone here have experience with Samsung international warranty coverage? 

Seems my work out sweat was stronger than the Galaxy Beans meager IPX2 rating, one bud is now dead! Pretty miffed about this, barely 2 months old. 
Now, I looked into the warranty situation from a German perspective (where I bought it) and it says 24 months AND that I can try to get service from global partners, but those follow the local laws ... which I think might be specific to warranty times. 

Now, I contacted Samsung here in Sri Lanka, so far no response. The reviews on google regarding their service center are exactly what I expected a) phone centric b) they do not honor warranty claims for items bought abroad. 

Before I head over there I wanted to hear if the hive mind here has any experiences / suggestions / funny comments in that direction. 

I still like those buds a LOT and start missing them ... then again .. rocking the Sony WF1000X (yes, the old ones), while typing this and oh boy, these do sound nice, as long as I am not moving too much (or expect any actual ANC  )


----------



## Laethageal (Oct 21, 2020)

logiatype said:


> I’d piggy back on this to say the Tevi’s have too much upper mids, definitely more narrow sound width, but better sub bass rumble. But the N6 sound so clean.
> 
> It’s a shame neither of them have decent EQ or they would be impossible to beat. I still need to try the N400 though.


Have you tried EQ'ing them with Wavelet app?
I found the EQ possibilities great even with the free version.


----------



## Kalli

kr0mka said:


> ANC needs very good passive isolation (either closed back on ear or iem) to provide good results. Since Beans are earbud like, all the noises just bleed through the weak ear-seal, making the ANC a bit pointless in my opinion.
> So, that's not a faulty unit, thats just their design


I'm totally aware of that design flaw. But I did expect at least any change. Otherwise I don't understand, why they're offering ANC at all.


----------



## actorlife (Oct 21, 2020)

Caipirina said:


> I actually had sent mine back ... they got some much hype a few months back and yes, they sound pretty nice, but i could not get a good fit with those flimsy wings .. and well, nothing about them really excited me ... guess that's a very personal quest ... everyone else seems to love them


Hey Cai! I got them used for $17 free cause I had a coupon. I got small ears so they actually fit well. I felt the bass was too much on my player and used the eq and now they sound better. I think I’m getting 4hrs, but will have to check again. I have some older wired BT Mpow and really loved the SQ. I had an issue with the M30 that it would not pause or skip songs. I did a reset and phew they now work as intended.


----------



## logiatype

Laethageal said:


> Have you tried EQ'ing them with Wavelet app?
> I found the EQ possibilities great even with the free version.


Unfortunately I'm an unwashed iOS user.


----------



## webvan

TWSMan said:


> Looks like El Jefe has uploaded a video on the Jabra 75t with the new firmware update to enable ANC:



Sounds good, he puts them just below the XM3s and above the MTW2s. Not sure what to make of that though because the XM3s only deliver good ANC when you ram them deep in your ears which disqualifies them for any prolonged use. It's too bad he doesn't have access to the Amazon Echo Buds or the Bose QCs for further comparisons. To me the passive+ANR combo of the Echo Buds remains the best isolation you can get for TWEs and very much on par with the QC25s I also have, so a bit blelow the XM3 headphones I tried in a store at length.
Still if some refurb 75Ts pop up on Amazon at a good price I might give them a shot, I quite liked the 65Ts back in the day


----------



## Luchyres

logiatype said:


> I’d piggy back on this to say the Tevi’s have too much upper mids, definitely more narrow sound width, but better sub bass rumble. But the N6 sound so clean.
> 
> It’s a shame neither of them have decent EQ or they would be impossible to beat. I still need to try the N400 though.



I tried the AKG N400 and was excited by them, and the sound was pretty good. But they lack the extension, and for me (maybe faulty pair), the sound would decompose and start to sound very digital/packet lossy - leading to peaky highs and the 'blown sub' sound in bass. I was not turning them all of the way. It would go away for a bit if I switched sources (phone, or app on phone) but then it would crop up again. They just fundamentally couldn't deliver on the tracks I have that really push both the low end and need resolution on the high end (not simultaneously). They did great with acoustic guitar etc. I went from considering keeping them to sending them back as fast as I could in a short period of time (THERE CAN BE ONLY ONE!)

ANC was meh, but not an important feature for me. Calls were bad.

My main phones were a BBKey2 and an iPhone Xr at the time. I would steer clear of the AKG N400, personally, and I'm a little surprised at the love they get here - but I know my music tastes may have not been a good fit for them. N6 will take anything I throw at them, even low bitrate Soundcloud bs, and give me an enjoyable experience.


----------



## karloil

actorlife said:


> I doubt better than the Tevi. Looking forward to a comparison!



I have already auditioned the N6 Pro a few months after its release. But I already have the Tevi at that time and the price of the N6 Pro (as comparared to Tevi) wasn't helping either. 

I auditioned the N6 Pro with a bunch of other TWS - but I remember still going back to the N6 Pro. I'll be picking up the N6 Pro on Saturday, very happy to relive why I liked them in the 1st place and compare it with the Tevi's again.

I know I posted my impressions here when I had my TWS audition but too lazy to find it


----------



## assassin10000

Just an FYI for the Wavelet users.

The EQ in the app works in sections or steps, and the end of each section/step is the number marked. It is not centered on the number. 

So 0-75hz is under '75', 75-150hz is 150, 150-300hz is '300' and so on. IE: if you lower '4.8k' you are lowering from 2.4khz to 4.8khz.


----------



## d3myz

Inear said:


> Anyone have the Jabra Elite 75t, the new update with ANC is out, can anyone test the ANC?


I got it last night. i'm please to say the ANC works really well, it's very close to as good as the APP. They also fixed the imbalance issues when removing one bud. Very impressed with Jabra.


----------



## d3myz (Oct 21, 2020)

karloil said:


> I have already auditioned the N6 Pro a few months after its release. But I already have the Tevi at that time and the price of the N6 Pro (as comparared to Tevi) wasn't helping either.
> 
> I auditioned the N6 Pro with a bunch of other TWS - but I remember still going back to the N6 Pro. I'll be picking up the N6 Pro on Saturday, very happy to relive why I liked them in the 1st place and compare it with the Tevi's again.
> 
> I know I posted my impressions here when I had my TWS audition but too lazy to find it


I owned all three, the N6, N6pro and the Tevi. Sound quality wise I liked the N6 the best at the time. With some of the mid-bass EQ'd out the N6 can sound very close to the N6pro but less detailed in the highs. I didn't A/B the Tevi's with them but I had the old version at the time. I now have the new version of the Tevi, which in my opinion is much improved. Unfortunately I didn't get the ios app in time, so I can't EQ it.  The Tevi is great and it's not bulky like the N6/N6pro, it's also quite cheaper and from what i remember the Nuarls have a darker sound, still excellent but the Tevis highs are better, the N6pro can really bite. I woudn't say the Tevi sounds as detailed as the N6 pro, but they are more similar to each other than the N6. I really loved the Nuarls but couldn't justify the cost and I didn't like fit or bulkiness. Neither the Tevi and N6 pro have as much bass as I'd like, the N6 pro even less and the Tevis mids are good but not as good as the Nuarls. That's just my two cents. Also the stock tips the Nuarls come with really flatten the sound of the mids on any ear bud i've tried.


----------



## d3myz

rhsauer said:


> I updated my Jabra 75t's to ANC last night.  The upgrade took a while (when they say 15 minutes they mean it).  I can detect the ANC is there, but it's hard to tell exactly how effective it is while at home at 6am


I had to go through the setup and customize the ANC. I was surpirsed to learn that having it all the way up in the center was not the best for my ears. I'd play around with it.


----------



## d3myz

webvan said:


> Sounds good, he puts them just below the XM3s and above the MTW2s. Not sure what to make of that though because the XM3s only deliver good ANC when you ram them deep in your ears which disqualifies them for any prolonged use. It's too bad he doesn't have access to the Amazon Echo Buds or the Bose QCs for further comparisons. To me the passive+ANR combo of the Echo Buds remains the best isolation you can get for TWEs and very much on par with the QC25s I also have, so a bit blelow the XM3 headphones I tried in a store at length.
> Still if some refurb 75Ts pop up on Amazon at a good price I might give them a shot, I quite liked the 65Ts back in the day


So far, The 75t's ANC is better than the Echo Buds and the XM3's. I'm really surprised, I wasn't' expecting much.


----------



## d3myz

If anyone is interested in a gold like new pair of Jabra Elite 75t's only used for an hour by my dear mother who hated them, hit me up. I'll let them go for $115 shipped U.S. only.


----------



## TK33

Kalli said:


> I'm totally aware of that design flaw. But I did expect at least any change. Otherwise I don't understand, why they're offering ANC at all.



I don't think it is a design flaw but they just might not be a good fit for you.  I always assumed these were meant to allow you to hear your surroundings which is what the word "Live" indicated to me.  

I get a noticeable difference when I toggle ANC on and off and, even if they didn't fit you well, I would expect some difference or change when you toggle it on and off.  I should note that I also surprisingly get a decent seal when I put them in my ears and actually adjust them after putting them in so they don't completely block my ears (otherwise there is too much bass for my taste).

It is possible that I am also more sensitive to ANC...ANC always gives me a headache from the "pressure" or whatever that feeling is and I get a small sense of that even from these.


----------



## Sam L

d3myz said:


> I got it last night. i'm please to say the ANC works really well, it's very close to as good as the APP. They also fixed the imbalance issues when removing one bud. Very impressed with Jabra.


Wow, didn't expect that. Good to know.


----------



## duo8

Got some tips to try with my Galaxy Buds+.
From left to right: Comply True Wireless, Azla Xelastec for AirPods Pro, Menthon TW30 Pro.

Xelastec: Fits on easily, the sticky surface makes them a bit awkward to put on but they stay in well once on. No significant change to sound.
Comply: Very difficult to put on, obviously wasn't designed for the Buds. Performs like what you'd expect out of Comply tips: Good isolation, comfortable, rolled off upper frequencies.
Menthon TW30: Performs on par with the Comply (in isolation, comfort and expansion time), while being half the price. Also doesn't roll off as much as the Comply.


----------



## Inear

d3myz said:


> I got it last night. i'm please to say the ANC works really well, it's very close to as good as the APP. They also fixed the imbalance issues when removing one bud. Very impressed with Jabra.




Wow, that is great to hear. I'm looking at buying the 85T when they come out.  If the 75T are so good the 85t should be a lot better with the ANC chip.


----------



## tma6

So this was a surprise. Just got a hold of a pair of Jabra Elite 85t at Best Buy! Did not realize they were out yet, but I guess I got in early? Anyway, I’ll be providing impressions soon.


----------



## d3myz (Oct 21, 2020)

It looks like FIIL finally updated their ios app to support the T1 XS. It's a big improvement. I had my T1XS' boxed up ready to go back and I think I may hang on to them now.


----------



## d3myz

tma6 said:


> So this was a surprise. Just got a hold of a pair of Jabra Elite 85t at Best Buy! Did not realize they were out yet, but I guess I got in early? Anyway, I’ll be providing impressions soon.


I saw that too, to rich for my blood. I'm excited for your impressions. I'm waiting for them to show up on my employee site so I can get my 40% off. .


----------



## BigZ12

tma6 said:


> So this was a surprise. Just got a hold of a pair of Jabra Elite 85t at Best Buy! Did not realize they were out yet, but I guess I got in early? Anyway, I’ll be providing impressions soon.


Looking forward to your impressions!
Will there be an Active version of the 85t as well?


----------



## tma6

So about a year ago I was an early adopter of the Jabra 75t and wrote here that they were some of my least favorites I had heard up until that point. I must have had a defective pair at the time or something was wrong with the EQ software on my phone because I tried them again a few months later and they weren't nearly as bad. Still, I found them to be way too bassy and boomy and did not like the timbre at all. Even with EQ I could not get them to sound right to my ears, so I ended up returning them. 

It's very early, but the Jabra 85ts are a whole different ballgame. So far I'm thoroughly impressed with pretty much every aspect of these buds, including the sound. But I'll reserve full impressions for a little bit later today once I've done some more music testing.


----------



## d3myz (Oct 21, 2020)

Not sure if anyone cares, but I decided to purchase a second set of MPOW M30's the non-plus version this time. I found that cases between the two are not interchangable as I believe was previously mentioned due to the polarity being different in the right ear buds. You could force them into place and hold the lid closed, but why? Also, The regular M30 definitely sounds different, they have less bass/midbass and sound a bit crisper, which I actually really like. Unfortunately, the right bud of the M30 non plus I received has INSANE driver flex during insertion and the balance was off. The right bud has some reduced output, probably a bad driver, so they are being exchanged.


----------



## sunnygsm

What's the consensus on the momentum TWS 2 vs the Sony WF-1000XM3? I'm looking at these two as my main options and would like top tier sound but also something that doesn't have niggling issues with battery/connectivity.


----------



## d3myz

tma6 said:


> So about a year ago I was an early adopter of the Jabra 75t and wrote here that they were some of my least favorites I had heard up until that point. I must have had a defective pair at the time or something was wrong with the EQ software on my phone because I tried them again a few months later and they weren't nearly as bad. Still, I found them to be way too bassy and boomy and did not like the timbre at all. Even with EQ I could not get them to sound right to my ears, so I ended up returning them.
> 
> It's very early, but the Jabra 85ts are a whole different ballgame. So far I'm thoroughly impressed with pretty much every aspect of these buds, including the sound. But I'll reserve full impressions for a little bit later today once I've done some more music testing.


Good to hear, I also had the 75t when the bass was unbearabe. One or two firmware updates later they totally nerf'd it. My biggest frustration has always been the unbalanced audio and the low max volume since that update. After that it seemed like no matter how you eq them it didn't make much difference. I haven't used them for music since the latest ANC update as I mostly use these for audiobooks and for Skype, Zoom, Teams connected to my work comp and phone simultaneously. but I'm going to run them tonight. They really are a productivity dream if you can find the right tips. I'm really excited to hear your updated impressions. 

Any of you know of other TWS' that support multiple devices simultaneously like the 75t and 85t?


----------



## d3myz

sunnygsm said:


> What's the consensus on the momentum TWS 2 vs the Sony WF-1000XM3? I'm looking at these two as my main options and would like top tier sound but also something that doesn't have niggling issues with battery/connectivity.


Haven't tried the MTW2, but I have the XM3's and they are solid. Some folks have fit issues and they are rather large.


----------



## erockg

erockg said:


> I actually picked up the MTW2 Anniversary Edition and got them today.  Looking forward to testing out that new tuning option.


I have to say, the new tuning option really is awesome.  I can hear a big difference and I'm loving the style of the Anniversary Edition MTW2s.


----------



## tma6

sunnygsm said:


> What's the consensus on the momentum TWS 2 vs the Sony WF-1000XM3? I'm looking at these two as my main options and would like top tier sound but also something that doesn't have niggling issues with battery/connectivity.



I would add the Jabra Elite 85ts into the mix.


----------



## Firevortex (Oct 21, 2020)

Just got my hands on the Bose QC TWE this morning. boy...it's massive! it's thicker and wider than the sony. will compare it with the Nuarl N10 Pro once i have more time with it later tonight.


----------



## tma6 (Oct 21, 2020)

Alright here's some first impressions of the Jabra after about 5 hours of use:

Sound: Right off the bat the sound is great. I need more time for a full breakdown but here are some early thoughts:
- First, I'd recommend trying the hearing test, it actually worked really well for me in terms of correcting the tonal balance.
- Overall these are much more balanced than the 75ts, but they still have a solid mid bass punch with much better end to end extension. It's a slight U shaped sound with bass emphasis, but it's tasteful this time around.
- Bass is cleaned up considerably, and packs a punch while refraining from infringing on the mids. It's still got good rumble but it's definitely tighter than on the 75ts and has really nice texture for a TWS. It's sometimes a bit hollow, but I'm now used to some crazy high end wired sets so I'm being nitpicky.
- Mids are way better than on the 75ts. The soundstage is pretty great actually, and might be one of the widest I've heard so far on a TWS, but much more testing is needed for a final determination. Instrument separation is excellent in the mids and highs, perhaps a little less so in the upper bass / lower mids. Not quite MTW2 level of separation, but the staging is wider than the MTW2. Imaging is not quite as accurate as N6P, but it's still distinct and logical. I like the mids overall more than the Xm3s and despite the slight recess, they're definitely well done here. Timbre is interesting - vocals feel natural while there's a bit more coloration on instruments. It's pleasant though and preferable to the Senns to my ears (which were had too much of a consumer oriented tonality to my liking).
- Highs have impressive extension for a TWS and really surprising detail. There's a crispness that can verge on sharpness in the lower highs around 2-3k, but once again it's tasteful. Good extension at the very top and cymbals have nice decay. Slight roll off there at the very top but nothing egregious. None of the weird upper treble timbre that some TWS sets like Airpods Pro, Sonys and L2Ps have. Not as natural overall as the N6P, but those are still my faves for tonality.

Features: Jabra have knocked it out of the park with the features. I'm honestly super impressed so far.
- The ANC is noticeably better than any other TWS I've tried - this includes the Airpods Pro, the Sony xm3s, the Senn MTW2s, and I guess the Earfun Air Pros (though they really don't belong on this list). As usual, they do require a good seal for the ANC to work properly which meant I had to put in the largest tip size and it was so strong that I was taken aback a bit. I'll describe in more detail in a full review, but just know that it's excellent and did great with wind noise too.
- The passthrough is as natural as the Airpods Pro and that's saying a lot. It's not insanely magnifying, but without music it lets you hear your surroundings very well and it doesn't sound artificial at all. Also very impressed.
- Phone calls so far have just been excellent, maybe even better than the Airpods and I'm not saying that lightly. It just so happened that I had to make a bunch of phone calls today walking around NYC and at the supermarket and it seemed super clear to the other caller. Very very happy about this.
- Multi-pair with computer and phone is seamless and it's just such a nice feature to have. Not sure why other TWS can't do this.
- One weird thing is that the button controls on the buds only allow you to switch back and forth between ANC / Hear through modes. However, ANC / HT can be turned off in the app, so they can be used just normally.
- Can't tell yet if there's a difference in sound btw ANC and Off, gotta listen more. 
- There's a discernible hiss when a song stops playing with ANC on or Off, but not noticeable when music is going, even in soft passages. 
- Controls overall are really good and you get everything including volume, which is nice.
- Comfort is TBD, but so far so good.

I guess you could say that overall my impressions are great, but keep in mind that this is a honeymoon phase so take these notes with a grain of salt. I'll be putting them through all the paces for a full review. That being said, there's no question that I'm a fan so far.


----------



## tma6

Forgot to mention that I'm also just a fan of the design and how small these things look in the ear. They stick out slightly, but they're an attractive pair, particularly when compared with other ANC buds out right now. And that case is still super small, which I love.


----------



## cheesesteak

tma6 said:


> Forgot to mention that I'm also just a fan of the design and how small these things look in the ear. They stick out slightly, but they're an attractive pair, particularly when compared with other ANC buds out right now. And that case is still super small, which I love.



How about the tips, saw that they are proprietary. Is it similar to the AirPods Pro tips?


----------



## tma6

cheesesteak said:


> How about the tips, saw that they are proprietary. Is it similar to the AirPods Pro tips?



Similar shape, but don't have that click on feature. Kind of annoying that they're proprietary, but the big ones seal well for me.


----------



## C_Lindbergh (Oct 21, 2020)

What I don't like about the Jabras.. Lack of aptx, so their multi point feature isn't nearly as good as it could be.

Generally I want to stay connected to both my phone and PC, on PC I'm stuck on lousy SBC if there's no aptx.

Sure, the Sennheiser MTW 2 doesn't have multi point. But you can easily switch device in the app, however aptx is so much better than SBC.


----------



## SilverEars (Oct 21, 2020)

Been listening to the AKG N400, and I got to say I'm not the biggest fan.  I think it's a tuning people will prefer over the APP however.  It has a bit of V-shaped response.  Thumping bass with upper-mids emphasis.  I'm not fan of the upper-mids emphasis, as the articulation sound uneven in the treble with a bit much focus on the upper-mids frequencies.  Bass is ok, it sounds like the typical TWS bass, a bit mushy like usual.

The upper-mids treble articulation has the typical artificial textures you get from typical wireless headphones like Bose QC 35.

I recall Galaxy Buds+ had too much upper-mids or treble, and N400 has tad less there, so it's better tolerable.

Overall, I much prefer the Bose QC Earbuds over the N400.  Bose's sound stage is impressive, and the bass is much better presented.

Personally, I prefer the upper frequencies of the APP over the N400, but I do wish APP has more bass like the Bose, or even the N400.   Bose sounds like upper frequency tonality of APP with bigger sound stage and better bass response in terms of impact and tightness.

Edit:  The response of N400 seems to be very close to Buds+ I wonder if they are identical?


----------



## Luchyres

d3myz said:


> Any of you know of other TWS' that support multiple devices simultaneously like the 75t and 85t?



I believe the Huawei Freebuds Pro do as well. 



Firevortex said:


> Just got my hands on the Bose QC TWE this morning. boy...it's massive! it's thicker and wider than the sony. will compare it with the Nuarl N10 Pro once i have more time with it later tonight.


Very curious to hear your thoughts on the N10 Pro - ad the pocketability of the case/calls.


@tma6 Thanks for the Elite 85t impressions! I'm keen to hopefully get these on release via Amazon.


----------



## webvan

No way to turn off ANC on the 85Ts without using the app ? Not as bad as the Bose where it can't be turned off at all but you have to wonder sometimes if the people who design TWEs actually use them ! The ANC devices that will not pick up wind noise don't exist (yet ?) so that means it's going to be impossible to ride a bike without thumbing through the app and it's going to be annoying in windy streets.
Also the hiss between tracks with ANC On/Off is worrying, yeah you can "live" with it but from my experience with the L2Ps v1/v2 or the FiLL T1, it's just impossible to "unhear" once you've noticed it...


----------



## vladzakhar

Also want to add that the 85Ts are super loud. 50% volume is more then enough for me. 
And I don't have any hiss between the songs playing.
ANC is very impressive.
I like that the buds go to sleep to preserve the battery.


----------



## Firevortex (Oct 22, 2020)

I used the Bose QC extensively today for 2-3hrs and spent around 30mins or so A/B testing it against the Nuarl N10 Pro. My setup is USB Player Pro on TIDA with bit perfect out put setting. The Bose QC feels bass heavy and the bass bleeds into the mids colouring the sound. It sounds like a 15" subwoofer rumbling at the back ground. This is very pronounce if you have a pure Acoustic track or Piano track playing. The instruments just don't sound natural to me. Grand Piano sounds like electric keyboard and guitar sounds like electric guitar. The sound stage is very wide, on some tracks i can feel the music is coming around 3cm out side the ear. In-comparison, the Nuarl N10 sounds much cleaner. It doesn't have that bass rumble, nor is the bass punchy. Have to say the N10 lacks bass but it makes up for it in imaging, separation and sound stage. Yes. It beats the Bose QC on sound stage. Its about 7-8cm out side the ear. its especially clear on tracks like Nora Jones seven years on TIDA Master, the acoustic guitar positioning is much further to the left behind the ear, while the vocal is right of the head. the Bose has the acoustic guitar positioned inside the left ear while the vocal is towards the centre of the head. On pop tracks and female vocals the Bose feels warmer tube like, the N10 feels more clinical natural AKG/ Etymotic type sound where you can hear each whisper. I personally prefer the N10 Pro with its clarity and impressive sound stage. I just don't like the Bose QC bass its less punchy and tight like the Nuarl N6 mini my wife picked up few weeks ago and the N6 drivers are considered bass heavy.

ANC performance, Bose wins hands down. it suppresses all frequency ranges while the N10(high ANC mode) suppresses the lower frequency better making the outside noise sound very weird with higher frequency more prominent.

Call performance the N10 Pro sounded less compressed while the Bose QC made the voice sound more higher pitched (only tested on calls twice today) but both caller had no issues hearing my voice clearly.

All the ANC earbuds are massive but Bose is the biggest in that department compared to the N10 and Sony. the case is about 10% smaller than the sony case while the N10 is thinner and longer. i don't think it would be comfortable to carry any of those in your pocket unless of course you're after some stares then N10 would be your choice inside a tight pants pocket . i would consider the N6 mini/Mifo O7 size to be pocketable.

If your looking for ANC performance and Bass the Bose should be your pick. If your looking for SQ with more comfortable fit/size the Nuarl N10 is the better pick (heaps of tips to choose from). I also prefer the button controls over touch control, as you know that "click" is going to do exactly what you pressed it for. But i would hold off your purchase of the N10 for a few weeks as they are updating the firmware/APP to add more EQ setting to boost bass and better connection fixes (i had issues with one side of the earbud losing sound then coming back on, which apparently is not just me).


----------



## vladzakhar

Also I can use spinfit tips with 85Ts. They don't fall out and sound is better cause they go deeper in my ears.


----------



## logiatype

Firevortex said:


> I used the Bose QC extensively today for 2-3hrs and spent around 30mins or so A/B testing it against the Nuarl N10 Pro. My setup is USB Player Pro on TIDA with bit perfect out put setting. The Bose QC feels bass heavy and the bass bleeds into the mids colouring the sound. It sounds like a 15" subwoofer rumbling at the back ground. This is very pronounce if you have a pure Acoustic track or Piano track playing. The instruments just don't sound natural to me. Grand Piano sounds like electric keyboard and guitar sounds like electric guitar. The sound stage is very wide, on some tracks i can feel the music is coming around 3cm out side the ear. In-comparison, the Nuarl N10 sounds much cleaner. It doesn't have that bass rumble, nor is the bass punchy. Have to say the N10 lacks bass but it makes up for it in imaging, separation and sound stage. Yes. It beats the Bose QC on sound stage. Its about 7-8cm out side the ear. its especially clear on tracks like Nora Jones seven years on TIDA Master, the acoustic guitar positioning is much further to the left behind the ear, while the vocal is right of the head. the Bose has the acoustic guitar positioned inside the left ear while the vocal is towards the centre of the head. On pop tracks and female vocals the Bose feels warmer tube like, the N10 feels more clinical natural AKG/ Etymotic type sound where you can hear each whisper. I personally prefer the N10 Pro with its clarity and impressive sound stage. I just don't like the Bose QC bass its less punchy and tight like the Nuarl N6 mini my wife picked up few weeks ago and the N6 drivers are considered bass heavy.
> 
> ANC performance, Bose wins hands down. it suppresses all frequency ranges while the N10(high ANC mode) suppresses the lower frequency better making the outside noise sound very weird with higher frequency more prominent.
> 
> ...



If NUARL can manage to add some sort of manual EQ it will definitely be an instant buy (need a sub-bass boost). Otherwise, it doesn't seem as compelling an upgrade from an N6P if you never listen to the N10P


----------



## Sam L

vladzakhar said:


> Also I can use spinfit tips with 85Ts. They don't fall out and sound is better cause they go deeper in my ears.


did you pick up the 85t's in a best buy store?


----------



## vladzakhar

Yes Bestbuy. They have plenty.


----------



## Bhelpoori

webvan said:


> No way to turn off ANC on the 85Ts without using the app ? Not as bad as the Bose where it can't be turned off at all but you have to wonder sometimes if the people who design TWEs actually use them ! The ANC devices that will not pick up wind noise don't exist (yet ?) so that means it's going to be impossible to ride a bike without thumbing through the app and it's going to be annoying in windy streets.
> Also the hiss between tracks with ANC On/Off is worrying, yeah you can "live" with it but from my experience with the L2Ps v1/v2 or the FiLL T1, it's just impossible to "unhear" once you've noticed it...


Can you not do this by using MyControls in the Jabra Sounds app to change a button control to ANC Off rather than Hearthrough? You can definitely turn off ANC in the app...


----------



## Luchyres

vladzakhar said:


> Also want to add that the 85Ts are super loud. 50% volume is more then enough for me.
> And I don't have any hiss between the songs playing.
> ANC is very impressive.
> I like that the buds go to sleep to preserve the battery.


Thanks for adding in this context. Very excited to try them. 



Firevortex said:


> If your looking for ANC performance and Bass the Bose should be your pick. If your looking for SQ with more comfortable fit/size the Nuarl N10 is the better pick (heaps of tips to choose from). I also prefer the button controls over touch control, as you know that "click" is going to do exactly what you pressed it for. But i would hold off your purchase of the N10 for a few weeks as they are updating the firmware/APP to add more EQ setting to boost bass and better connection fixes (i had issues with one side of the earbud losing sound then coming back on, which apparently is not just me).


Thank you so much or the pics and the info! This answered a lot for me - I'm curious to see how the N10Pro fare after the EQ update/app update.

BUT! My burning question now is - what do you think of the N6 Mini?


----------



## mymail0808

Couple questions;

1. I bought the Hiby R3 pro which comes with bluetooth 5.0. expecting maybe a bit better sound from my smartphone which is also a blue tooth 5.0 device. 
Smartphone with very good connection; But the connection with R3 pro DAP is very disappointing. It drops all the time. What else affecting the connection? I tried more than 1 earbuds, e.g. Fiil T1X, Lypertek Tevi, Aukey EP-N5, etc.,

2. I bought the Aukey EP-N5 mainly want to try the ANC effect but again disappointing very much, almost can't tell the difference. MY ear problem or really that this one ANC not so strong? Around budget which one comes with the strongest ANC power? Which earbuds has the best ANC no matter the budget? If really good and i could consider up to budget about Bose ANC earbuds, but this maybe with big bass which i don't like a lot...

Thanks


----------



## Bhelpoori

tma6 said:


> Alright here's some first impressions of the Jabra after about 5 hours of use:
> 
> Sound: Right off the bat the sound is great. I need more time for a full breakdown but here are some early thoughts:
> - First, I'd recommend trying the hearing test, it actually worked really well for me in terms of correcting the tonal balance.
> ...


They appear to have a "mute" button on calls, which if it works which they often don't with Teams/Zoom, then it puts it ahead of almost any other competitor include Bose.


----------



## TK33

Bhelpoori said:


> They appear to have a "mute" button on calls, which if it works which they often don't with Teams/Zoom, then it puts it ahead of almost any other competitor include Bose.



I was literally just walking with my Galaxy Buds Live today wondering "why dont they put a mite button on these things?"


----------



## dasadab

Is the Nuarl 10 Pro a worthy upgrade to the Nuarl 6 Pro?  I have gone through most of the $200 plus earbuds over the past year and I prefer the Nural 6 Pros, sound wise and form factor wise.  I am looking forward to buying the 10s when they are available, if they are enough of a worthy upgrade.  
Merci.


----------



## AudioNoob

Just got the Earfun Air Pro, so far the fit is good and I didn't have any issues with them falling that others mentioned, one note here is that the stem is supposed to be angled forward towards your mouth and not down. Perhaps that was a issue with others? The stems are quite long and can accommodate other tips (ie. fit in the case) if you push them all the way down to the base of it, past the notch. I just tried Sedna Xelastecs, which are particularly grippy, and they seem to aid with the buds staying on.

They use an accelerometer to detect taps which is my normally a pet peeve of mine but it seems to work a little better on these. Perhaps thanks to the ability to tap on the stem, they are relatively consistent and it doesn't feel like tapping myself on the eardrum. It does get a little more difficult with triple taps for ANC and assistant settings.

The 50-120hz region gets a bit of a boost with ANC on, perhaps not as much as Apollo Bolds, but it would have been better if they stayed the same across modes as they naturally have a mild W signature with boosted bass. I do wish that they had an equalizer and a way to tweak the ANC modes (disable pass through / anc / choose default mode) and disable the feedback voice.

Microphone seemed pretty good but I will try in noisier conditions.


----------



## Ausemere

Hi, new guy here. Does anyone have a quick list of budget tws (up to $60) with *neutral* sound signature? Able to handle busy tracks – mostly for hard rock and heavy metal. I currently have a QCC010 (my first ever tws) and have been told to look at the Haylou T19. I'm open to more suggestions!


----------



## Sam L

vladzakhar said:


> Yes Bestbuy. They have plenty.


Lucky New Yorkers! I just went into my local best buy and they said the early release is likely a mistake. Nothing in my area.


----------



## d3myz

Bhelpoori said:


> They appear to have a "mute" button on calls, which if it works which they often don't with Teams/Zoom, then it puts it ahead of almost any other competitor include Bose.


Can't speak for the 85, but the 75 has a mute button as well and it works remarkably well on zoom, teams, skype and phone calls. I've listening to my 75t's today, finally took some time to EQ them and they sound fantastic. There are areas in the low mids that sound too boomy and undefined, but overall i'm really impressed. ANC works great and can be configured in the app and turned off via the buttons, I HAS to be the same on the 85ts, no?


----------



## Fudgebar

Anyone here care to provide feedback on the FiiL T1 pro and how they stack up against perhaps the Fil T1Xs and/or the Naurl 6 Pro or any other highly recommended buds?


----------



## vladzakhar

Update on 85Ts:
Don't use them if you planing to bike. The wind noise is huge. Thankfully, I have other options for that activity.
And no option change the volume using the buds.
Battery life on paper on a single charge with is ok (5.5 hours). Probably, with ANC ON it's even less.
The ANC itself is better when others, especially with spinfit tips.
Very engaging sound, good in all frequencies.
Big soundstage.
2 device connection is super cool.
All in all these buds are totally worth the price tag.


----------



## tma6

vladzakhar said:


> Update on 85Ts:
> Don't use them if you planing to bike. The wind noise is huge. Thankfully, I have other options for that activity.
> And no option change the volume using the buds.
> Battery life on paper on a single charge with is ok (5.5 hours). Probably, with ANC ON it's even less.
> ...



You can change the volume by holding down one side or the other . Right is up, left is down. Agreed on the wind noise, hopefully that gets better with an update.


----------



## jasonb

Ausemere said:


> Hi, new guy here. Does anyone have a quick list of budget tws (up to $60) with *neutral* sound signature? Able to handle busy tracks – mostly for hard rock and heavy metal. I currently have a QCC010 (my first ever tws) and have been told to look at the Haylou T19. I'm open to more suggestions!



If you can up your budget just a hair the Lypertek Tevi would fit that bill.


----------



## tma6

d3myz said:


> Can't speak for the 85, but the 75 has a mute button as well and it works remarkably well on zoom, teams, skype and phone calls. I've listening to my 75t's today, finally took some time to EQ them and they sound fantastic. There are areas in the low mids that sound too boomy and undefined, but overall i'm really impressed. ANC works great and can be configured in the app and turned off via the buttons, I HAS to be the same on the 85ts, no?



Where in the app did you see the ability to do this? I do feel that the timbre and clarity on the 85ts is a big step up from the 75ts, but the addition of ANC on the 75s is quite awesome I have to say. That multi pair functionality is just awesome too man. Not sure how I lived without it now that I have it lol.


----------



## howdy

Excited to pick up the 85ts when ever Best buy gets them. There is one store about 100 miles away but that's too much, I'll wait.
I really like Jabras as they are really a great product for the money. Not always the best sound but not bad either.


----------



## Firevortex (Oct 22, 2020)

Luchyres said:


> BUT! My burning question now is - what do you think of the N6 Mini?



My wife bought them because of the form factor and pocketability, she doesn't care about SQ. initially my impressions are they have less clarity and sound stage then the N6 Pro but i played around with the USB Audio Player app yesterday to see if i could get more detail by lower the bass. i was surprised to find that using the "Morphit Tonebooster" function on the app with headphone type set as "ER4s" and target headphone type set as "K1000" the N6 mini opened up with better separation, increased clarity/detail its like a veil has been lifted. the bass remains punchy and tight. Its a really fun sound. Bought it on special for $135AUD which is around $100 USD? absolute bargain i reckon. with the size, IPX7 rating, Ambient sound function and using the same N6 drivers. If some of you guys are on a budget i would jump on the mini and skip out on the Pro with no hesitation.



dasadab said:


> Is the Nuarl 10 Pro a worthy upgrade to the Nuarl 6 Pro?  I have gone through most of the $200 plus earbuds over the past year and I prefer the Nural 6 Pros, sound wise and form factor wise.  I am looking forward to buying the 10s when they are available, if they are enough of a worthy upgrade.
> Merci.



i think it is. even the Bose sounded better than the N6 Pro with larger sound stage. If you read my previous impression post when i compared the N10 to the N6 pro i mentioned the N6 Pro has warmer forward vocals which makes it sound particularly good on female vocal tracks. N10 pro is a different beast where you can hear the music as they are recorded. thus N10 Pro is more clinical audiophile quality.


----------



## tma6 (Oct 22, 2020)

howdy said:


> Excited to pick up the 85ts when ever Best buy gets them. There is one store about 100 miles away but that's too much, I'll wait.
> I really like Jabras as they are really a great product for the money. Not always the best sound but not bad either.



They did a great job w the sound this time around in my opinion! Tightened up that bass, though still on the loose side particularly in the sub region. The mid bass has good articulation though.


----------



## logiatype (Oct 22, 2020)

Not a big fan of Engadget but UE fit reviews have started popping up:

https://www.engadget.com/ue-fits-review-123038103.html
https://www.pcmag.com/reviews/ultimate-ears-ue-fits
https://gizmodo.com/ue-fits-are-true-wireless-buds-that-finally-fit-my-frea-1845418554

Edit: Not audiophile reviews but they all mention great fit. Very, very tempting.


----------



## Sam L

logiatype said:


> Not a big fan of Engadget but UE fit reviews have started popping up:
> 
> https://www.engadget.com/ue-fits-review-123038103.html
> https://www.pcmag.com/reviews/ultimate-ears-ue-fits
> ...


Doh! I totally forgot about the ue fit. Decisions, decisions.


----------



## tma6

logiatype said:


> Not a big fan of Engadget but UE fit reviews have started popping up:
> 
> https://www.engadget.com/ue-fits-review-123038103.html
> https://www.pcmag.com/reviews/ultimate-ears-ue-fits
> ...



Really cool tech w the UE FITS. I'm definitely interested. Though controls seem limited. Glad to see the fit thing kinda works.


----------



## dasadab

Firevortex said:


> My wife bought them because of the form factor and pocketability, she doesn't care about SQ. initially my impressions are they have less clarity and sound stage then the N6 Pro but i played around with the USB Audio Player app yesterday to see if i could get more detail by lower the bass. i was surprised to find that using the "Morphit Tonebooster" function on the app with headphone type set as "ER4s" and target headphone type set as "K1000" the N6 mini opened up with better separation, increased clarity/detail its like a veil has been lifted. the bass remains punchy and tight. Its a really fun sound. Bought it on special for $135AUD which is around $100 USD? absolute bargain i reckon. with the size, IPX7 rating, Ambient sound function and using the same N6 drivers. If some of you guys are on a budget i would jump on the mini and skip out on the Pro with no hesitation.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## FYLegend

vladzakhar said:


> Update on 85Ts:
> Don't use them if you planing to bike. The wind noise is huge. Thankfully, I have other options for that activity.
> And no option change the volume using the buds.
> Battery life on paper on a single charge with is ok (5.5 hours). Probably, with ANC ON it's even less.
> ...


By wind noise are you referring to passive noise isolation or ANC? How is the passive isolation, considering they are supposed to be "half-in-ear"?



d3myz said:


> Good to hear, I also had the 75t when the bass was unbearabe. One or two firmware updates later they totally nerf'd it. My biggest frustration has always been the unbalanced audio and the low max volume since that update. After that it seemed like no matter how you eq them it didn't make much difference. I haven't used them for music since the latest ANC update as I mostly use these for audiobooks and for Skype, Zoom, Teams connected to my work comp and phone simultaneously. but I'm going to run them tonight. They really are a productivity dream if you can find the right tips. I'm really excited to hear your updated impressions.
> 
> Any of you know of other TWS' that support multiple devices simultaneously like the 75t and 85t?


Exactly what's wrong with the imbalanced sound? Does one side have more bass than the other or is it the mids? It was pretty noticeable on the 65t, but it was the warmer frequencies that was imbalanced and after a few minutes I stopped paying attention. On the other hand when a TWS has way more sub-bass or mids/treble on the left side, it often drives me nuts. Imbalanced treble can be somewhat alleviated with foam under the nozzle, imbalanced bass cannot.



Tooros said:


> Hi All. I’m lost. Quick question please. Does this dual “5.2” connection work with iPhones on iOS 14?


I don't think this dual connection has anything to do with Bluetooth 5.2. Seems to be Airoha's MCSync or something similar.

Does anyone else have this issue where when you want to switch devices and disconnect, the earbuds decide to reconnect with initial device one more time? It often happens on my TaoTronics SoundLiberty 94 which I presume has an Airoha chip. Supposedly it differs from the 20Decebel and TOZO NC9 in having Bluetooth 5.1 but I haven't been able to test this and in my experience the Bluetooth connectivity is quite medocre.


----------



## d3myz

tma6 said:


> Where in the app did you see the ability to do this? I do feel that the timbre and clarity on the 85ts is a big step up from the 75ts, but the addition of ANC on the 75s is quite awesome I have to say. That multi pair functionality is just awesome too man. Not sure how I lived without it now that I have it lol.


To set the cycle mode. Headset Settings>Headset Configuration> Sound Modes.

To Configure the buttons Personalize your headset > My controls > my controls for media.


----------



## AudioNoob

Software based ANC on the 75 is really good, much better than the Apollo Bold for example. Unlike all the third party contenders, it cuts noise across the spectrum and not just the low rumble. Not being hardware based, you can hear a slight cyclical tone in the background from the processing delay but it's very impressive. The app also takes you through a setup process so that the noise cancellation is balanced along in-ear resonances. Jabra is a name for a reason I suppose.


----------



## tma6

d3myz said:


> To set the cycle mode. Headset Settings>Headset Configuration> Sound Modes.
> 
> To Configure the buttons Personalize your headset > My controls > my controls for media.



Wow for some weird reason the sound modes not showing up on my app under headset config. I think it’s possible that the app isn’t fully updated for the 85ts since they aren’t really supposed to be released yet. I’m sure they’ll add it though. Thanks for this man!


----------



## HiFlight

I have to also add my kudos for the 75t ANC update.  Also, the previous firmware added a hearing customization program similar to a hearing test which when coupled with the ANC with your profile really turns the 75t into a fine all-arounder!


----------



## Newguyuk

I have been waiting patiently for the jabra 85t as I am hoping that they will meet my fairly unique use case!

i now work from home and I have a standing desk which I have put an old treadmill under. When I’m on the phone, I walk in the treadmill. I am currently just using the iPhone on speaker phone. When I’m talking the iPhone does a great job of cutting out the treadmill noise. Nobody can hear it at all. Unfortunately when the other person talks and I am aliens, they other person can hear the treadmill noise.

I am hoping that the jabra will cut out the treadmill noise completely. for those that have the jabra.Do you think this is likely?


----------



## Kalli

Are the new Jabras more flat tuned by any chance?


----------



## regancipher

Fudgebar said:


> Anyone here care to provide feedback on the FiiL T1 pro and how they stack up against perhaps the Fil T1Xs and/or the Naurl 6 Pro or any other highly recommended buds?



I've done a comparison on my instagram. Basically, both are very similar sound-wise, the mic is slightly better and the noise cancellation is OK (not in the league of Edifier and Tronsmart - you can hear keyboard taps, but not traffic, for example)

The big difference is in the way you wear them. The T1XS have circular, metallic driver housings which are designed to fit deep into your ear canal. For some, this is great, for others, it can feel like your in a submarine.

The T1 Pro on the other hand have oval housings like the Apollo Bold. This means you can't insert them deep into your ears like the XS. To get a nice comfortable fit, you need better tips than the supplied ones (they don't protect your ear from the housing enough) and they need to be wide enough to make use of the noise cancellation. For most average sized ears this will also mean having to use the largest wings in the box to keep them secure against your concha.

I have found myself advising people over and over on how to wear them and everyone comes back and says "Oh yeah!" - FIIL don't advertise them in this way, the expectation is to wear them like the T1XS....but that won't work for most people. 

More info here: https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/fiil-t1-pro-bt5-2-ipx5-anc-tws.24694/reviews#item-review-24465


----------



## HiFlight

Kalli said:


> Are the new Jabras more flat tuned by any chance?


With the more recent 75t firmware updates, they are no longer overly bassy as before.  With the options to create personal EQ settings and a personal hearing profile, once can set up a very neutral SQ.  The stock "Flat" setting sounds very much better than the original, especially with one's personal hearing profile applied.


----------



## logiatype

Really need to unsubscribe from this thread. It's hard to justify buying more TWS (I only have the N6P) but it's so tempting... UE fits seems to be positively reviewed everywhere so far.


----------



## C_Lindbergh (Oct 23, 2020)

UE fits seems awesome, but seems to be lacking in pure features like an Ambient mode, and to my understanding there's only a single touch command on each ear bud?

Also no sidetone when on call? I imagine it will be really annoying to have a phone call with these if there's no side tone since the seal should be extremely good.


----------



## d3myz

FYLegend said:


> By wind noise are you referring to passive noise isolation or ANC? How is the passive isolation, considering they are supposed to be "half-in-ear"?
> 
> 
> Exactly what's wrong with the imbalanced sound? Does one side have more bass than the other or is it the mids? It was pretty noticeable on the 65t, but it was the warmer frequencies that was imbalanced and after a few minutes I stopped paying attention. On the other hand when a TWS has way more sub-bass or mids/treble on the left side, it often drives me nuts. Imbalanced treble can be somewhat alleviated with foam under the nozzle, imbalanced bass cannot.



my experience with the sound imbalance is as follows. Whenever I would remove one ear bud and then reinsert it roughly 20% of the overall output of the bud would be reduced in one ear, usually the right. I’d have to put both buds back in the case for about 10 -15 seconds to rectify it. Being on video calls every day, you can see how this gets really annoying. I am super grateful they fixed it.


----------



## jamington2004

If anyone can make tiny wireless things sound amazing - Devialet can IMHO 

https://www.devialet.com/en-gb/

They have built in room correction for your ears ***! 

Started a thread on it - but thought you guys discussing true wireless IEM may be interested


----------



## jamington2004

Wow I can’t even swear using the initials “eff eff ess” - that’s some next level swear filter you have set up


----------



## tma6

Newguyuk said:


> I have been waiting patiently for the jabra 85t as I am hoping that they will meet my fairly unique use case!
> 
> i now work from home and I have a standing desk which I have put an old treadmill under. When I’m on the phone, I walk in the treadmill. I am currently just using the iPhone on speaker phone. When I’m talking the iPhone does a great job of cutting out the treadmill noise. Nobody can hear it at all. Unfortunately when the other person talks and I am aliens, they other person can hear the treadmill noise.
> 
> I am hoping that the jabra will cut out the treadmill noise completely. for those that have the jabra.Do you think this is likely?



I think they actually might, though I haven't tried this use case. The ANC is really good, probably as strong as I've heard in TWS. Though does pick up a bit of wind noise sometimes.




Kalli said:


> Are the new Jabras more flat tuned by any chance?



I wouldn't call the 85ts flat by any means, but they're more balanced and detailed than the 75ts from my recollection and the timbre is more accurate (though not neutral).


----------



## Fudgebar

if i dont care about any other features but just want superior sound then the T1XS, is the T1 Pro worth purchasing or do they sound the same?


----------



## Kalli

tma6 said:


> I wouldn't call the 85ts flat by any means, but they're more balanced and detailed than the 75ts from my recollection and the timbre is more accurate (though not neutral).


Probably not for me then. Still thanks a lot.
Looking for something to listen to classical music. I'm pretty happy with the Tin Hifi T2+ (sound, fit, price) and will probably get a TWS adapter for them.


----------



## tma6

Kalli said:


> Probably not for me then. Still thanks a lot.
> Looking for something to listen to classical music. I'm pretty happy with the Tin Hifi T2+ (sound, fit, price) and will probably get a TWS adapter for them.



N6Pro is what you’re looking for if you want a TWS . Still the best for sound quality, and has a flat but well extended sig


----------



## Tooros (Oct 23, 2020)

My T1 Pro turned up. The day Fiil updated the iOS app for T1XS. I can no longer ‘fool’ the app by selecting T1X as the YouTube reviewers stated was previously possible. The app update will come I’m sure. But you should be aware if this is a concern to any potential purchasers. Sound is pretty good from iPhone and HiBy R6. These are my first TWS and they’re ok. I don’t have anything to compare but for the use model I intend - they’ll be fine.


----------



## ares946

regancipher said:


> How's the fit on the Kinera? They look a bit bulky


sorry for a late reply) they fit great. including me, there were 8 peoples who heard them, and 7 of them were pleasantly surprised about fit


----------



## Fudgebar

tma6 said:


> N6Pro is what you’re looking for if you want a TWS . Still the best for sound quality, and has a flat but well extended sig



How do these compare to the Fiil T1 Pro and T1XS?.....Im really looking for the best overall sound for under $150 that leans toward:
warm/neutral sound by default
has a wide soundstage
Instruments have room to breath and feel spatialized
If possible good texture and layering as well
Bass is not muddy but has a clean tight impact to make music feel full bodied


----------



## tma6

Fudgebar said:


> How do these compare to the Fiil T1 Pro and T1XS?.....Im really looking for the best overall sound for under $150 that leans toward:
> warm/neutral sound by default
> has a wide soundstage
> Instruments have room to breath and feel spatialized
> ...



Though I have only tried the FiiL T1X, in my opinion, the N6P are still a solid step up from most other TWS on the market for SQ. They have a wide soundstage, very natural timbre (best in class imo), flat sound sig with great end to end extension and bass texture, excellent detail retrieval for the price even compared w wired sets in the $50-200 price range, and the best imaging I've heard on a TWS. It can be slightly bright for some, and its bass is a bit tame for some as well. Check out my review if you want more info about how it sounds .


----------



## jant71

Debating this over the standard version...




10 days longer till this version comes out and it is $45 more. Do like the black and gold trim and certainly want the best sound version. If it is better or tuning I can replicate with MSEB? There is some hype and "the results exceeded the expectations" and encourage us to preview and listen before you buy(not that I could in the US)....


----------



## Luchyres

Just got the Huawei Freebuds Pro - they're  a very sleek package and so far exceptional for calls. I don't have other ANC systems to compare to - but it seems to do pretty well there too. 

I'm still evaluating regarding them as my "CAN ONLY BE ONE" for audio (and the Jabra 85ts should be here soon I think), but I'll keep you all posted as I A/B with the N6's.


----------



## tma6

Luchyres said:


> Just got the Huawei Freebuds Pro - they're  a very sleek package and so far exceptional for calls. I don't have other ANC systems to compare to - but it seems to do pretty well there too.
> 
> I'm still evaluating regarding them as my "CAN ONLY BE ONE" for audio (and the Jabra 85ts should be here soon I think), but I'll keep you all posted as I A/B with the N6's.



Awesome! How'd you manage to get a hold of them? Please update w impressions if you can, I was def looking hard at those.


----------



## Rob E.

Fudgebar said:


> How do these compare to the Fiil T1 Pro and T1XS?.....Im really looking for the best overall sound for under $150 that leans toward:
> ...



Seems you're really leaning towards the Fiil T1XS or T1 Pro. Personally I've never heard either but I'd surmise (from what I've read) that they're both very good. You'll probably be happy with either, and you'll save yourself a few dollars!  But,... FWIW, tma6 gave you the best advice re: 'best overall sound quality'. That $12.00 cost beyond your budget, is a small price to pay for a substantial gain. Just sayin'.


----------



## chinmie

Kalli said:


> Probably not for me then. Still thanks a lot.
> Looking for something to listen to classical music. I'm pretty happy with the Tin Hifi T2+ (sound, fit, price) and will probably get a TWS adapter for them.



get the TRN BT20S Pro if you can. i use my T2+ with it, and it's easily the best sounding TWS combo for my taste.


----------



## howdy

Bought the 85ts today, however Im not able to pick them up until tomorrow. Can't wait to try them out and compare them to the 75t and others I have.


----------



## Luchyres

tma6 said:


> Awesome! How'd you manage to get a hold of them? Please update w impressions if you can, I was def looking hard at those.



I originally ordered from giztop, but they were taking forever to ship, so I ordered off of another shop on eBay (cheaper anyway!)

Here's a quick take at day 1 impressions:


Non-Sound:

The Freebuds Pro have impressed the hell out of me with the factors that matter for my day to day usage:
Convenience/Use Positives
Case Size - Airpods pro feeling, smallest 'in pocket' feel of any case I've had (I generally carry the N6 in my pocket). 
Call/Mic Quality - Fantastic. My mom (lol) said I was louder and clearer than she ever has heard me on the phone - she had to turn down her volume on her end. I was walking around outside in leaves with cars driving by, and the ANC hid most of the noise from me - _and from her too. _I would have 0 qualms recommending these for work calls etc. I have not tested wind. 
Range: Fantastic - even when the signal started to break up (when I was a few rooms and a door away) the caller could understand me - I just could hear a little bit of packet loss. 
ANC: Again, I did not care about ANC until recently (I live in Puerto Rico, where street noise/cars with PA speakers park at 3AM outside your apartment - I want ANC so I can focus at work. I am in PA currently, so haven't tested in my 'extreme' work situation, but the ANC is noticeable and effective for me. More testing to come, but I would say the ANC is very very far from 'weaksauce', 
Comfort: Very comfortable, The middle size oval tips included fit me well, I've yet to try the large. The S worked for me too, but I'm thinking the M are more my fit. Very lightweight and comfortable. So far, I feel like I could wear them for 5 hours and have no pain points. They also do not feel at risk of falling out AT ALL, though I did knock one out taking my shirt off when it caught the edge of the stem. 
Controls: *IMPECCABLE - *Swipe up and down for volume, pinch to pause, pinch 2x to skip forward, pinch 3x to skip back, hold to switch between No ANC, ANC, and Ambient (I'm on iOS and I don't miss/need the app). Using the controls do not affect the seal/position of the buds at all. These may single handedly convert me to stem based TWS. They are already second nature to control
Multipoint pairing is working well so far. 
Overall package (case, buds, controls, features - very premium - I'd say APP +1 (Never listened to APP, but the package feels very, very similar, albeit with I assume better sound/bass). 
Awareness mode works very well. 
I think they actually look pretty good in-ear  

Challenges:
They are a little tough to get out of the case, I will admit. I'm getting better at it quickly, but they are a  little slippery, and the case is tiny, which I love. 
I wish they had an EQ in the app (no app for iOS currently).
SBC on Windows is SBC on Windows
Oval special tips (may need certain tips for replacement.) 
Noise Cancelling on has a _slight effect _on the bass delivery - just a little bit of fuzziness at the lower range. Hard to notice, but there. 



Sound: 
These are very 'first day impressions' - no burn in, and I'm picky af:
Tonally emphasize the midrange more than the N6. Everything sounds 'good' but I'm not quite immediately dancing the way the N6 get me (but I love mid/sub bass), the midrange is a little sharp for me at the higher volumes (I turn the volume as loud as I can, but it's usually the voices/snare that ends up being the limiting factor vs overall volume/bass
I'm mostly listening to Soundcloud of varying quality (this is my real world test though) and I notice some range of bass is just not as 'present' as it is on the N6 - less of a sense of 'atmosphere'/being in a room with reverb (I suspect the Nuarl excel at this due to HDSS and size).
MidBass has presence, but not as much spacious/aura as the N6, I suspect these are more neutrally tuned and better for guitar/vocals vs bass heavy rap, at least with default tuning. 
Subbass has kick when the song is appropriately tuned, but sometimes overwhelmed by the treble (I'm treble sensitive). 
Songs that have poorly produced midbass can reveal their weakness more readily with the freebuds than the N6, which tends to make even poorly produced stuff sound good.



Conclusions:
I need more time with them. The combination of call quality, pocketability, ANC, and controls make me want to love them. I may keep them just for multipoint and work (I'm on Zoom all day) 
I like the spaciousness/resonance of the N6 and the depth of soundstage of the N6 better, but not so much better that it's a clear cut win for the N6 in all music genres - and the features of the Freebuds Pro/controls are so good that they are a factor here. They, thus far, seem much better for calls as the Nuarl mics pick up all ambient noise on your call. 


If the Jabra Elite 85t arrive in time, it will be a real shootout between the two. I find it hard to imagine the 85t could be better, but if they compare featurewise and the Elite 85t deliver a little more on the sense of spaciousness/midbass and soften the treble, then they may win. 

I will likely decide whether to keep or sell the Freebuds Pro within this week, and the main factor will be the 85t. My gut reaction is that the Freebuds Pro will stay in my stable for work at the very least, but we will have to see. The number one thing I dislike compared to the N6 is the lack of 'aura/spaciousness' for the bass resonance. They are _not bad at all_, but the N6 shine here for me with the HDSS.
.... Maybe I'll go to BestBuy for the 85t tomorrow......


----------



## hifi80sman

howdy said:


> Bought the 85ts today, however Im not able to pick them up until tomorrow. Can't wait to try them out and compare them to the 75t and others I have.


Where were you able to find them?


----------



## howdy

A lot of the Best Buys around me finally got some this week but of course it's not the one 2 miles away. The one I have to go to is about 12 miles away not to bad.


----------



## jant71

Back to improve on the first try, Noble Falcon 2 is set to take flight with connection, sound quality, and usability improvement. Qualcomm 3040, BT5.2 with SBC,AAC, aptX Adaptive, true wireless mirroring, "external sound capture", IPX7, 10 hours battery at 70% volume, Qi charging, and have ePro horn shape tips installed. App will have high/low gain control and 10 band EQ and customization features. Price approx. $130-$140.


----------



## dwells

Laethageal said:


> Appart from the touch control issue, it looks similar to my early observation of the TWSNB2.
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/goi...soon-or-are-we-there-yet.861024/post-15927698


Yep, looks like we were equally unimpressed. Too bad, because I think the actual design of them is pretty cool looking.

I'm out and about and back doing the world travel thing, so no more TWS orders for me unless I'm in one place long enough and confident enough in my choice to AliExpress something. Maybe pick up the FIIL T1 Pro at some point and then gift my T1 XS to my friend I'm traveling with if she wants them.


----------



## bronco1015

howdy said:


> I updated mine which is v1 and I really don't like it so far. The previous version had more sparkle in the highs while have great bass and mids. Now, it still has great bass and mids but lost it's highs that I enjoyed. Is there a way to revert? Or I may have to mess with the eq a bit more.


Curious if you found a fix for this, but that sparkle in the highs is what sets the MTW1 apart from the MTW2 for me. i haven't updated my MTW1 on purpose since i got the MTW2, because i wondered if i'd lose that sound. Seeing this post confirms what i suspected. oh also, haven't enabled sound tuning for MTW2 yet, but as is now, the soundstage of MTW1 is also better to my ears. But after the update a couple months ago, can't remember the version, the ANC of the MTW2 was improved significantly.


----------



## howdy

bronco1015 said:


> Curious if you found a fix for this, but that sparkle in the highs is what sets the MTW1 apart from the MTW2 for me. i haven't updated my MTW1 on purpose since i got the MTW2, because i wondered if i'd lose that sound. Seeing this post confirms what i suspected. oh also, haven't enabled sound tuning for MTW2 yet, but as is now, the soundstage of MTW1 is also better to my ears. But after the update a couple months ago, can't remember the version, the ANC of the MTW2 was improved significantly.


Nothing yet, but I haven't tried or listened to them since that day. Might be a bit longer as I'm picking up my 85ts today and will be jammin with those for awhile!😁


----------



## VICosPhi

howdy said:


> Nothing yet, but I haven't tried or listened to them since that day. Might be a bit longer as I'm picking up my 85ts today and will be jammin with those for awhile!😁





bronco1015 said:


> Curious if you found a fix for this, but that sparkle in the highs is what sets the MTW1 apart from the MTW2 for me. i haven't updated my MTW1 on purpose since i got the MTW2, because i wondered if i'd lose that sound. Seeing this post confirms what i suspected. oh also, haven't enabled sound tuning for MTW2 yet, but as is now, the soundstage of MTW1 is also better to my ears. But after the update a couple months ago, can't remember the version, the ANC of the MTW2 was improved significantly.



I have found using Xelastec or JVC Spiral Dot tips helps bringing out the highs from MTW2.


----------



## Bhelpoori

hifi80sman said:


> Where were you able to find them?


Would be very interested in an ANC and mic comparison between the 85T and Bose QCs. I’m hoping the ANC is equivalent and the mic better on the 85T.


----------



## vladzakhar

I think 85Ts ANC is on pair Bose QCs. Not better though. Passive isolation is better for sure, especially with spin fit tips I am using.
I had no complains from people to whom I called with ether one.


----------



## Bhelpoori

vladzakhar said:


> I think 85Ts ANC is on pair Bose QCs. Not better though. Passive isolation is better for sure, especially with spin fit tips I am using.
> I had no complains from people to whom I called with ether one.


Thank you. Equivalent is good enough for me.
Is that the Spinfit CP360?


----------



## SDBiotek

Apologies if this has been mentioned already, but Status Audio is about to launch a TWS through Indiegogo. It is a three driver design (1 dynamic, 2 balanced armature). Early bird pricing is $99, and a limited number will be available for $79.
More info here:
https://www.status.co/pages/between-lp2-alt


----------



## Mouseman

SDBiotek said:


> Apologies if this has been mentioned already, but Status Audio is about to launch a TWS through Indiegogo. It is a three driver design (1 dynamic, 2 balanced armature). Early bird pricing is $99, and a limited number will be available for $79.
> More info here:
> https://www.status.co/pages/between-lp2-alt


Wow...that's a "bold" design. It looks uncomfortable.


----------



## jant71

SDBiotek said:


> Apologies if this has been mentioned already, but Status Audio is about to launch a TWS through Indiegogo. It is a three driver design (1 dynamic, 2 balanced armature). Early bird pricing is $99, and a limited number will be available for $79.
> More info here:
> https://www.status.co/pages/between-lp2-alt



Could be good but stop with the marketing BS. Quite a few triple driver and even KZ had more drivers in some models so the "first" is just not true. Not that "advanced" either. Hopefully they perform well and sound good enough that we say they are a good deal and a player at the price tag. Normal Joe's browsing Indiegogo might be impressed but here people already have a nice list of things this doesn't or can't do.


----------



## dweaver

I recieved an email from Status as well. These are tempting because I like my Status Transfer and the $79 early bird price is pretty darn good. But unless it has a very good tuning the 3 driver feature is not a first and none of the other features are particularly ground breaking. The shape is different but I suspect they will be comfortable.


----------



## howdy

vladzakhar said:


> I think 85Ts ANC is on pair Bose QCs. Not better though. Passive isolation is better for sure, especially with spin fit tips I am using.
> I had no complains from people to whom I called with ether one.


You use Spinfits on the 85ts? I still using the oval ones that came just to give a valid try. When I first put them in I thought they where gonna fall out but I shook my head good like Flossy and they stayed.


----------



## mixolyd

chinmie said:


> get the TRN BT20S Pro if you can. i use my T2+ with it, and it's easily the best sounding TWS combo for my taste.



This is interesting, have you tried a lot of TWS?  I see the Sony in your sig.  I’ve also considered going the adapter route - after all there is such a wealth of wired IEMs out there to suit every taste and they can be easily bought and sold to find something that really works.  I already have a semi-decent TWS (Tranya T3) that is super convenient but I suspect that a wired iem with adapter might be more satisfying when I want more critical listening.


----------



## jant71

dweaver said:


> I recieved an email from Status as well. These are tempting because I like my Status Transfer and the $79 early bird price is pretty darn good. But unless it has a very good tuning the 3 driver feature is not a first and none of the other features are particularly ground breaking. The shape is different but I suspect they will be comfortable.



That's what holds out hope for them. With those BS lines and not saying anything about the tuning or SQ this would be ignored If it wasn't Status and was some company we never heard of.


----------



## dweaver

jant71 said:


> That's what holds out hope for them. With those BS lines and not saying anything about the tuning or SQ this would be ignored If it wasn't Status and was some company we never heard of.


Absolutely! I wouldn't even consider these other wise . Even with that I am a bit on the fence if I will buy them. But seriously considering it.


----------



## regancipher

Laethageal said:


> Depending on which TWS you already own and if the Earfun Air pro are anything like the Edifier TWSNB2 I just received, I wouldn't recommend them much.
> - They do not stay put in the ear (yawning or laughing/smiling openly will always break the seal have have the bud start to dislodge and/or fall).
> - The SQ is decent but not exceptional nor particularly engaging. If you have some good TWS, chances are this one will fall into a position where the SQ will not draw you toward them more than another you already like.
> - The case feels cheap, is annoying and not convivial to open without looking at it to figure the right side to open it and even then, you need some nails to manage to have some grip on the microscopic edge the case has. Those biting their nails, beware.
> ...



I thought exactly the same as you until I tip rolled. The only way to wear these comfortably for me was to use the large tips that come with the Apollo Bold.

Like the T1 Pro and the Apollo Bold, the way the vendor recommends you wear them is doomed to fail. You cannot shove an oval shaped driver into your ear canal without discomfort. The Edifier TWS NB2 are the biggest culprit. Unless you use tips that fill the area around your concha, you won't get the best out of them.

Interestingly, the call quality is paradoxically outstanding. Paradoxically, because whilst it sounds terrible your end, your voice sounds immaculate their end. That's on Windows - on iPhone it sounds fine, which is odd because it only supports SBC, albeit a weird bitpool configuration. The Earfun have AAC whereas the Edifier has only SBC so it may improve it on that score but I put every set of earbuds through rigorous testing and the NB2 have the best call quality I've ever tested bar the Airpods.

I didn't bother with the enclosed cable but the tips are sub par so it wouldn't surprise me. The issue with the case does though - I'm really impressed with it, it's ergonomics are fantastic and the magnets are pretty strong. Battery is a little inconsistent - some days they seem shorter than others which would suggest a case issue...or that the contacts get dirtier due to them being stuck in my ears all day.

A lot of this is of course subjective and they aren't even my third choice to listen to music, but for working from home they're my go to.


----------



## SilverEars (Oct 24, 2020)

So, I've been looking at various reviews, and they generally point to Galaxy Live being the best with it's mic, and the test actually shows that it has great mic quality.  I guess it's the new standard.  I hate it's sound though. 

What I want: 

SQ of Bose QC Earbuds
Formfactor and ANC performance of APP
Mic/Call performance of Galaxy Buds Live.

Above are the top dogs in their respective categories.


----------



## regancipher

SilverEars said:


> So, I've been looking at various reviews, and they generally point to Galaxy Live being the best with it's mic, and the test actually shows that it has great mic quality.  I guess it's the new standard.  I hate it's sound though.
> 
> What I want:
> 
> ...



Don't we all! 

Not gonna get it any time soon with Bluetooth unfortunately, there's always a trade off


----------



## Laethageal

regancipher said:


> I thought exactly the same as you until I tip rolled. The only way to wear these comfortably for me was to use the large tips that come with the Apollo Bold.
> 
> Like the T1 Pro and the Apollo Bold, the way the vendor recommends you wear them is doomed to fail. You cannot shove an oval shaped driver into your ear canal without discomfort. The Edifier TWS NB2 are the biggest culprit. Unless you use tips that fill the area around your concha, you won't get the best out of them.
> 
> ...



No offense but after testing the Edifier NB2, I disagree with you on most of the point you bring except the one saying it isn't the first choice for music. 

Case ergo are bad. You can hardly find the small lip to grip it open and forget ever opening it with 1 hand only. The magnet are strong, no issue on this side and batteries was consistent if you forget about the case were 1 bud went dead for no reason after charging for 3 days. 

SQ isn't bad but it isn't anything better than average either. 

Tip rolling & switching tip didn't help with the bud to stay in place during physical work. 

The way you say you test call quality and found it to the best simply astonish me. I tested it now on 3 different phones and not once did it sound great. Speaking for people listening to you, in noiseless environment they are ok, almost similar to a cheap cellphone mic but with subpar bitrate and few glitches. I/my son/my wife all sound as if somewhat muted when using them. In noisy it get worst and you'd better rely on the phone. On the other hand, I found to hear people pretty decently with the NB2, as good as high end cellphones. 

I might try to unlock my old S7 edge and put a sim in it simply to record the phone call quality and share it. People ought to know it isn't anywhere job call quality and would be better suited for kids who don't care about call quality.


----------



## SilverEars

regancipher said:


> Don't we all!
> 
> Not gonna get it any time soon with Bluetooth unfortunately, there's always a trade off


I'm seeing progress I have not previous thought possible.  I think TWS will improve and get better and better.


----------



## Luchyres

SilverEars said:


> So, I've been looking at various reviews, and they generally point to Galaxy Live being the best with it's mic, and the test actually shows that it has great mic quality.  I guess it's the new standard.  I hate it's sound though.
> 
> What I want:
> 
> ...



I have high hopes for Jabra E 85T (picking up tomorrow), but the Huawei Freebuds Pro are really quite good. The only box I doubt they'd check for you is the first one (I'm not a fan of Bose, and have not heard the QC Earbuds, but they are at least of a similar quality to the N6)

APP form factor, check.
Mic/Call Performance? Phenomenal

Let me know if you have a test track for me to try, or want to ask more about sound specifics


----------



## Kalli

tma6 said:


> N6Pro is what you’re looking for if you want a TWS . Still the best for sound quality, and has a flat but well extended sig


It's about 250€ in Germany though. Imported from Japan through eBay. Still worth it?



chinmie said:


> get the TRN BT20S Pro if you can. i use my T2+ with it, and it's easily the best sounding TWS combo for my taste.


Didn't hear good things about their quality control and hissing. And they don't have ENV mode, which I would really like to have. Ordered a pair of Shure RMCE-TW1.


----------



## chinmie

mixolyd said:


> This is interesting, have you tried a lot of TWS?  I see the Sony in your sig.  I’ve also considered going the adapter route - after all there is such a wealth of wired IEMs out there to suit every taste and they can be easily bought and sold to find something that really works.  I already have a semi-decent TWS (Tranya T3) that is super convenient but I suspect that a wired iem with adapter might be more satisfying when I want more critical listening.



all of things i currently own and had i wrote on my "about" page. when using bt dongles like the BT20S, it's if you have a favorite IEM that you want to turn into a TWS. i currently paired 4 of my IEMs and earbuds to the BT20S Pro


----------



## tgx78 (Oct 25, 2020)

AKG N400 EQed vs UM MEST 




N400 vs N400 EQ




EQ setting (AKG ios app)

not kidding you. This EQ sounds divine!


----------



## tgx78

Soundpeats Truedot: subwoofer in your head! Sounds pretty good with R&B, hip hop.


----------



## Aerosphere

Hifiman fixed their SQ after 600.
800's tonality is much better. 
https://www.headfonia.com/hifiman-tws-800-review/


----------



## Kalli

chinmie said:


> all of things i currently own and had i wrote on my "about" page. when using bt dongles like the BT20S, it's if you have a favorite IEM that you want to turn into a TWS. i currently paired 4 of my IEMs and earbuds to the BT20S Pro


Did u try the Shure RMCE-TW1?


----------



## chinmie

Kalli said:


> Did u try the Shure RMCE-TW1?



nope, i haven't. i prefer the BT20S Pro because of the detachable/swappable connectors. the Shure have app advantage and ambient sound though, so it would come down to what you need


----------



## howdy

One big difference between the Jabra 75 and 85 is the bass. To me the Bass goes a lot deeper with the 75s. Right now I'm eq'ing the 85s via UAPP streaming Tidal and it's much better but I'm not a real fan of using eq.
I did try the Spinfits I have on these but the boss on the buds is short and don't seem to fit right. I was able to get them on but I actually like the sound of the stock tips best so far.


----------



## Luchyres

howdy said:


> One big difference between the Jabra 75 and 85 is the bass. To me the Bass goes a lot deeper with the 75s. Right now I'm eq'ing the 85s via UAPP streaming Tidal and it's much better but I'm not a real fan of using eq.
> I did try the Spinfits I have on these but the boss on the buds is short and don't seem to fit right. I was able to get them on but I actually like the sound of the stock tips best so far.



This seems counterintuitive given the larger driver in the 85t.... do you think it's due to available space inside the casing or just tuning? Keep me posted, as I would actually consider the 75t over the 85t if you can't tune it to similar levels of bass (I don't always want more bass.... but when I do I want to _feel_ it. )


----------



## GearMe

Anybody have the Senn MTW v1 and the Cambridge Melomania 1? 

Would like to hear your thoughts on which is better (ignoring battery issues). 

Thanks in advance for your input!


----------



## diimaan

Long time anonymous follower of this thread and a first time poster!

I own the following TWS:

Shanling MTW 100
Klipsch T5
Nuarl N6 Pro
Mifo O7 Dual BA
Whizzer B6
Bomaker Sifi II
Samsung Galaxy Buds Plus

Also I had the following but returned after initial trial period:

Tronsmart Apollo Bold
Anker Soundcore Spirit Dot 2
Soundpeats TrueDot

For my listening I would rate the N6P as the best followed by Samsung. The adavantage of Samsung is that they are light and fit like a glove, also I can wear them in bed!
But my preference for listening to music at home have been changed to Qudelix-5K + FiiO FH1 as the fit is great and good passive isolation with FiiO and with balanced jack on Qudelix-5K I can push to it's limits even though I am capped by iPhone and AAC!

My only question to my fellow members is that , I recently got a Haylou T16. But I do not see much reviews (apart from few Chinese and Korean portals)! Has anyone got them here? My primary usage with them is while biking as I find the Outdoor mode really great and cuts out the wind noise pretty much to zilch! Which was and still a problem with most TWS out there.
I would not rate them on par with N6P or Galaxy Buds Plus but still a good deal for the price of 62€! I also like the semi open design of Jabra 85T's. Has anyone here got both of them? Is Jabra good for biking? Is wind noise still a problem with these TWS?

Thank you all in advance for your knowledge on TWS which helped me a lot before


----------



## howdy

Luchyres said:


> This seems counterintuitive given the larger driver in the 85t.... do you think it's due to available space inside the casing or just tuning? Keep me posted, as I would actually consider the 75t over the 85t if you can't tune it to similar levels of bass (I don't always want more bass.... but when I do I want to _feel_ it. )



Exactly! I thought much bigger driver equals BIG sound but I don't hear that. They do sound great and have a wide sound stage great mids and highs but a bit more bass would be perfect. Hopefully they fix this. 
I will keep these as I like Jabra brand and I know there will be some good updates in the future.


----------



## tma6 (Oct 25, 2020)

Kalli said:


> It's about 250€ in Germany though. Imported from Japan through eBay. Still worth it?



Ooof that's a bit steep. I would still say you wouldn't be disappointed by the SQ, but that's a bit much for my liking particularly if there are other options that are more reasonable. Can you get a hold of the Lypertek TEVIs for a decent price? Those are another relatively flat / neutral w a hint of bass boost that you might like. Definitely great detail and staging for the price. Very pleasant tuning.



howdy said:


> Exactly! I thought much bigger driver equals BIG sound but I don't hear that. They do sound great and have a wide sound stage great mids and highs but a bit more bass would be perfect. Hopefully they fix this.
> I will keep these as I like Jabra brand and I know there will be some good updates in the future.



Bass is definitely more controlled on the 85ts, and I see where you're coming from. The sub extension is not super emphasized, and there's a strong mid bass focus. I still think it extends pretty well though. You didn't find the 75's bass to be bloated? I'm all for strong bass, but the bass on those to me felt like they just overpowered the mids and I couldn't fix it with EQ without messing up the tonality. Also to me the 85ts are a solid step up for detail retrieval, and the bass has more tone definition and texture. What tips are you using? I had to go to the big ones to get a proper seal.

Great to get your impressions since I'm going from memory with the 75s.

To me I'm really enjoying the overall SQ of the 85ts. Very balanced with a nice open stage for TWS, not too mid forward, nice extension in the highs, and still has good punchiness in the bass for me without being overwhelming. Also the features and connectivity are just.. fantastic. Particularly in such a small package.


----------



## tma6

Also this: 

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/exclusive-final-audio-eva-2020-at-audio46.945401/


----------



## regancipher

Laethageal said:


> No offense but after testing the Edifier NB2, I disagree with you on most of the point you bring except the one saying it isn't the first choice for music.
> 
> Case ergo are bad. You can hardly find the small lip to grip it open and forget ever opening it with 1 hand only. The magnet are strong, no issue on this side and batteries was consistent if you forget about the case were 1 bud went dead for no reason after charging for 3 days.
> 
> ...



Interesting. I like the case ergo - the lip is pretty obvious, and whilst yeah opening it with one hand isn't possible, you're going to have to take the earbud out with the other hand anyway so.....who cares?!

On the call quality - well, I tested only on iphone 8 and poco x3 and recorded the calls. Indoors, they subdued everything reasonably well without taking clarity out of your voice. They didn't cancel out as much as, for example, the Taotronics TT79, but they don't distort your voice as much. Outdoors, and I have every set still recorded, they drown out almost all traffic noises. Your voice is a little lacking in treble, but apart from that it's absolutely fine and fine for work calls in my experience. I never got a single glitch, whereas cheap sets I tested like anything from Aukey, and most of the in-ears other than the Tranya T10, regularly suffered from this. And the Anker Soundcore Liberty Air.....OMG they were terrible! Lots of complaints here: https://www.bestbuy.com/site/review...true-wireless-in-ear-headphones-black/6374960

I use an Auna external mic for working from home but my experience generally is far better than yours. I noticed Scarbir reviewed them two weeks after I did and gave them 5 stars for calls - maybe you got a duff pair?

So yeah, sound is always subjective, but it seems to be you in one corner and everyone else saying otherwise!

Oh, and I got the Mifo O9 today. Nothing special, certainly not worth the price


----------



## howdy (Oct 25, 2020)

tma6 said:


> Ooof that's a bit steep. I would still say you wouldn't be disappointed by the SQ, but that's a bit much for my liking particularly if there are other options that are more reasonable. Can you get a hold of the Lypertek TEVIs for a decent price? Those are another relatively flat / neutral w a hint of bass boost that you might like. Definitely great detail and staging for the price. Very pleasant tuning.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I agree, I don't want it to be as bassy as the 75s but like you mentioned above I want it to extend more just to give it a bit of meat. I'm happy they don't sound the same as each other or I wouldn't want them. 
I'm using the large tips and trying to find a good spot for when they are in my ears to get a good "seal". I hope Spinfits will make a better tip for these in the near future.


----------



## dasadab

diimaan said:


> Long time anonymous follower of this thread and a first time poster!
> 
> I own the following TWS:
> 
> ...



Quick question, ‘cause I don’t understand BT stuff super well.  My iPhone XS Max has Bluetooth 5.  If I get say a Qudelix-5K, does the BT stream go Bluetooth 5 to the Qudelix and then say aptx (or LDAC depending on which headphones I use) to my wireless headphones?  In other words, I am in the iphone universe and would like to use a music codex other than AAC.  Thanks for the help!


----------



## Kalli

dasadab said:


> Quick question, ‘cause I don’t understand BT stuff super well.  My iPhone XS Max has Bluetooth 5.  If I get say a Qudelix-5K, does the BT stream go Bluetooth 5 to the Qudelix and then say aptx (or LDAC depending on which headphones I use) to my wireless headphones?  In other words, I am in the iphone universe and would like to use a music codex other than AAC.  Thanks for the help!


No, that's not how it works. With an IPhone you are stuck with AAC, which is the codec that's used to transmit audio via Bluetooth 5 to the Qudelix. The Qudelix itself delivers the audio via a cable to your headphones/IEMs (either 3.5mm or 2.5mm).


----------



## Kalli

chinmie said:


> nope, i haven't. i prefer the BT20S Pro because of the detachable/swappable connectors. the Shure have app advantage and ambient sound though, so it would come down to what you need


Ye, ambient mode is somehow important to me.
And with the app they could do what every single TWS with an app should do and finally give people the choice on controls. Just provide a set of control options (click/tap, double, triple, long, ...) and a set of actions (play, pause, >< track, voice assist, ...) and let each person decide on how they want to map that. Looking forward to the day they actually find out what the true strength of software is. 



tma6 said:


> Ooof that's a bit steep. I would still say you wouldn't be disappointed by the SQ, but that's a bit much for my liking particularly if there are other options that are more reasonable. Can you get a hold of the Lypertek TEVIs for a decent price? Those are another relatively flat / neutral w a hint of bass boost that you might like. Definitely great detail and staging for the price. Very pleasant tuning.


Their fit seems to be very "ear canal" based from what I have seen in reviews. I had quite a hard time to find something with good fit. The Shure shells fit me quite good, but they're quite expensive and I don't really like their tuning that much. So I pretty much settled for the Tin Hifi T2 Plus (similar fit as the Shure's) and trying to make them wireless.


----------



## Sam L

Mom mother found some earfun free's during her move and sent them over to me. 

These are a solid buy at $44. Surprised I didn't hear much of them here in the past. Good passive isolation, though a tad bulky / bulbous. But they are light so that helps with comfort. Bass is prominent but doesn't bleed excessively into the lower mids. Decent treble, thiugh a tad laid back for people used to harman tuning. I'm not a harman diehard but the pinna gain on this tws could use +2 or 3 dB in the 3k region. Despite the laid back treble (but not rolled off) , detail is good. 

Mic is pretty good too. However, I just re-purchased the buds live just for the mic, so the earfun free's are not nearly In the same league. But in quiet environments they can easily be used for work from home calls.


----------



## Sam L

Went in to another best buy to see if staff had any more info as to why new York got the 85t and not sf bay area. No answer given. Pre ordered on Amazon just now. Had my APP stolen, so I'm hopeful the 85t will fill that need (anc and call quality.)


----------



## Sam L

Anyone try the oppo enco w51?


----------



## dweaver (Oct 25, 2020)

I have to say after using the WF-XB700 the past couple of weeks these suprise the heck out of me.

Usually anything labeled XB from Sony is inherently bloated with massive amounts of bass and warmth. But the XB700 is way more balanced sounding than even the 1000XM3. The first couple of days I was EQing down the bass but then found I didn't need to do that anymore. Now I find I sometimes tweak the mids a treble up a bit but more often than not I don't have to EQ these at all.

While I also own the LP2 I actually find myself using the XB700 more. It just has a more cohesive sound with a larger sound stage. The LP2 has more features and a better battery but the XB700 is proving adequate for my needs as I rarely run in to charging issues.

The LP2 has less mic issues though as I have had people complain there is to much background noise on phone calls sometimes.


----------



## myltz400 (Oct 25, 2020)

Sam L said:


> Went in to another best buy to see if staff had any more info as to why new York got the 85t and not sf bay area. No answer given. Pre ordered on Amazon just now. Had my APP stolen, so I'm hopeful the 85t will fill that need (anc and call quality.)


Had to find someone that believed they were there for me to get them at Best Buy in North Carolina.  They are not yet in the store plan on their computer.
They were located all together on a top shelf near the Bose display down the isle from the a Jabra end cap.

Almost gave up until a stock room guy got aggressive and found them.

Btw unless you are only focused on sound quality don't think you will like them coming from the APP.  You do have until January now to return..


----------



## Sam L

myltz400 said:


> Had to find someone that believed they were there for me to get them at Best Buy in North Carolina.  They are not yet in the store plan on their computer.
> They were located all together on a top shelf near the Bose display down the isle from the a Jabra end cap.
> 
> Almost gave up until a stock room guy got aggressive and found them.
> ...


only looking for anc and call quality. I will measure and make my own wavelet compensation files, so SQ will be covered there.


----------



## VICosPhi

TWS and most wired IEM also lack quality sub-bass... I got Unique Melody MEST and they have just the right amount of sub-bass which is missing in my MTW2. MEST also have much more accurate and ample treble than MTW2. But other than these two differences, I would say MTW2 sounds 80% of what these kilobuck IEMs sound which is a pretty great achievement imo by Sennheiser.


----------



## Inear

howdy said:


> One big difference between the Jabra 75 and 85 is the bass. To me the Bass goes a lot deeper with the 75s. Right now I'm eq'ing the 85s via UAPP streaming Tidal and it's much better but I'm not a real fan of using eq.
> I did try the Spinfits I have on these but the boss on the buds is short and don't seem to fit right. I was able to get them on but I actually like the sound of the stock tips best so far.




How is the ANC on 85?


----------



## howdy

Inear said:


> How is the ANC on 85?


It's not bad but I'll have to compare it to my Sony XM3s soon.


----------



## howdy

So, just for shi!s and giggles I took my 75t and put it in my right ear and the 85t in the left and it works and they compliment each other greatly! One great thing to do on these cold Minnesota days.


----------



## 538110 (Oct 25, 2020)

I'm not sure if this the correct place to post.

Does anyone have information on UE FITS?  It's pre-order stage so not much info.

https://custom.ultimateears.com/pages/ue-fits

It seems to mold to your ears instantly for a custom fit.  Thinking of pre-ordering to lock in special price.  edit:, nvm the pre-order price of $219 is no longer available.


----------



## Luchyres

howdy said:


> I agree, I don't want it to be as bassy as the 75s but like you mentioned above I want it to extend more just to give it a bit of meat. I'm happy they don't sound the same as each other or I wouldn't want them.
> I'm using the large tips and trying to find a good spot for when they are in my ears to get a good "seal". I hope Spinfits will make a better tip for these in the near future.




Agreed re-tips. The 85t are a very, very solid package, but I have a harder time getting a good seal in my left ear than my right, even with the L tips. Did you all get a firmware update as soon as you got them? Honestly, I'm not sure if it was the seal or an imbalance, but the left seemed slightly quieter/less bassy than the right, but it sounded better after the update. I'm now on firmware: 1.16.0 (1033)


----------



## Luchyres

Just to share some images of the Nuarl NT01AX, Nuarl N6, Huawei Freebuds Pro, and Jabra Elite 85T, and some thoughts re: Freebuds Pro vs 85T:


Apps: Freebuds Pro do not have an app for iOS and their best features are tied to the Huawei ecosystem. E85T have an app for iOS. Winner: E85T
Phone Calls Freebuds Pro and E85T both are great for phone calls/canceling wind noise. The E85T sidetone makes the call experience slightly nicer on my end, and the call EQ in the app is useful to help with poor connections. Winner: E85T
Controls: The Freebuds Pro stem controls were very easy and intuitive for me, and allow me to do virtually all the things I want them to do without the app. The E85T have fully customizable controls, but are _slightly_ less convenient and involve pressing into the ear (not as problematic/affecting of seal as others). Winner: Freebuds Pro
Comfort: They are both comfortable, but I adjust the Freebuds more often, and wish they sat slightly deeper in my ears. Winner: E85T
ANC/audio pass through: Both perform well, but the Jabra app allows more adjustment, and the highest settings allow more hearthrough/louder. Winner: E85T
Case: Both tiny, both qi charging, but easier to get the E85T out of the case. Winner: E85T

Now, for me, the most important thing is using these to listen to bass filled dynamic music. When I compare the two, the E85T have more bass presence and extension than the Freebuds Pro, and I believe it is due to the drivers, tuning, and slightly larger casing. In addition, the app allows you to customize the sound profile to your liking/EQ - something I cannot do with the Freebuds Pro (no app). They both sound good, but the E85T sound slightly more spacious and detailed, and deliver more in the sub-bass region - but the biggest difference for me is that the E85T soundstage and depth, throughout the tonal range, feels more immersive. I am slightly aware of how 'close' the Freebuds Pro are as earbuds in my ears, and it feels as though the driver has less space within the housing to resonate and, like with a subwoofer, there is no substitute for 'air movement'/space/resonance when it comes to a dynamic driver. I prefer dynamic to balanced armatures, and a main reason for this is the presence and texture of the mids and bass, though the BA can be very 'accurate' they don't immerse me the same way. (To be clear, these are both dynamic drivers - the E85T housing just feels as though it makes  the dynamic driver characteristics shine a bit more. 

I do think that the N6/N6Pro and the Nuarl HDSS tech exemplifies this even better and allows for deep bass resonance, but the overall package and mic quality of the E85T are leading me to keep them and sellreturn the Freebuds Pro.

Anyway, just wanted to share - I really am enjoying the E85T and look forward to using them for work. I do also hope for aftermarket tips to improve the seal a little bit more, but these are a VERY solid offering as is.


----------



## dissociativity

I'm not so sure going from an easy cable replacement to a more difficult and harder to source battery replacement when those degrade is an upgrade.


----------



## howdy

Luchyres said:


> Agreed re-tips. The 85t are a very, very solid package, but I have a harder time getting a good seal in my left ear than my right, even with the L tips. Did you all get a firmware update as soon as you got them? Honestly, I'm not sure if it was the seal or an imbalance, but the left seemed slightly quieter/less bassy than the right, but it sounded better after the update. I'm now on firmware: 1.16.0 (1033)


I'm on the same fw. I also know that I'm not getting a complete seal cuz when I move the buds slightly down I can hear the real potential of these buds and they sound AMAZING when I get that perfect seal. I will have to mess with the tips more. I see Klipsch has a tip that is oval in shape, I wonder if they would fit?


----------



## turbobb

Looks like these just launched for JDM, and while I do like AT products, the specs are rather meh. Though I don't understand the vids, it seems they're trying to sell a lifestyle rather than the TWS themselves:
https://www.audio-technica.co.jp/product/ATH-SQ1TW

Would be interesting to see how the low latency mode is achieved and what chip is in use.


----------



## Laethageal

regancipher said:


> Interesting. I like the case ergo - the lip is pretty obvious, and whilst yeah opening it with one hand isn't possible, you're going to have to take the earbud out with the other hand anyway so.....who cares?!
> 
> On the call quality - well, I tested only on iphone 8 and poco x3 and recorded the calls. Indoors, they subdued everything reasonably well without taking clarity out of your voice. They didn't cancel out as much as, for example, the Taotronics TT79, but they don't distort your voice as much. Outdoors, and I have every set still recorded, they drown out almost all traffic noises. Your voice is a little lacking in treble, but apart from that it's absolutely fine and fine for work calls in my experience. I never got a single glitch, whereas cheap sets I tested like anything from Aukey, and most of the in-ears other than the Tranya T10, regularly suffered from this. And the Anker Soundcore Liberty Air.....OMG they were terrible! Lots of complaints here: https://www.bestbuy.com/site/review...true-wireless-in-ear-headphones-black/6374960
> 
> ...



I've just had random chat on the phone with my boy recording the call and asking him what was his opinion on call quality. I went from the Edifier NB2 2 buds on, quiet environment, to noisy, then single bud quiet and noisy as well. He had a hard time understanding what I was saying went using 1 bud with TV on at moderately high volume with general simple chitchat from Brooklyn 99.

I then switched to the Soundcore L2P. They were clearly better sounding and had less issue in general, with voice feeling more deep, but it isn't exceptional either and there was some bitrate drop you could easily hear, mostly with 1 bud in noisy (tv chitchat from same sequence of Brooklyn 99 at same volume).

You might not understand a work because we spoke Québécois, but it should give you an idea of the SQ of call with those. Be your own judge. 

The last test I might try tomorrow is using those on team to see if they fare better than thru normal phone call.


----------



## tma6 (Oct 25, 2020)

Luchyres said:


> Just to share some images of the Nuarl NT01AX, Nuarl N6, Huawei Freebuds Pro, and Jabra Elite 85T, and some thoughts re: Freebuds Pro vs 85T:
> 
> 
> Apps: Freebuds Pro do not have an app for iOS and their best features are tied to the Huawei ecosystem. E85T have an app for iOS. Winner: E85T
> ...



Awesome impressions man, and particularly the comparisons w the FBP. Thanks a lot for this. I’m lucky since it seems like I get a great fit with the large tips provided, but would absolutely love to see more tip options for these things, since it seems that the ANC and sound quality are affected quite a bit by the quality of seal.

As a whole, and it’s early, but the Jabra 85ts are shaping up to probably be my favorite TWS to date. They are the first truly complete TWS package, despite some minor flaws. Full review probably later this week, but I’ve just been thoroughly impressed with pretty much every aspect - from the SQ, the strong ANC / Hear-through, to the excellent call quality and small size of the overall package.



howdy said:


> I'm on the same fw. I also know that I'm not getting a complete seal cuz when I move the buds slightly down I can hear the real potential of these buds and they sound AMAZING when I get that perfect seal. I will have to mess with the tips more. I see Klipsch has a tip that is oval in shape, I wonder if they would fit?



Glad you were able to get a good seal even for a little to get that good SQ. I found when I first tried them that you need a good seal to get their full ANC capabilities. Once I switched to the larger tips, was very surprised w the level of ANC. Definitely let me know if you find any other good tips out there that work tho. Seems like these things could prove tip dependent. If you do, would also be great to hear your impressions of the sound since I really am just very impressed as of now.



Inear said:


> How is the ANC on 85?



With a good seal, it’s probably the best I’ve tried so far in a TWS. Better than the APP and xm3, but they might have a little trouble with very strong wind. Though I tried em outside today and it deals w a mild breeze very nicely. It’s strong though imo, particularly given the size, and it doesn’t change the SQ.


----------



## tma6

VICosPhi said:


> TWS and most wired IEM also lack quality sub-bass... I got Unique Melody MEST and they have just the right amount of sub-bass which is missing in my MTW2. MEST also have much more accurate and ample treble than MTW2. But other than these two differences, I would say MTW2 sounds 80% of what these kilobuck IEMs sound which is a pretty great achievement imo by Sennheiser.



Haha I have the MEST too. Reviewed em on head fi if you wanna check that out! I liked the Sennys sound quality but that might be a bit of a stretch. I’d say more like 65-70%


----------



## SilverEars

Aerosphere said:


> Hifiman fixed their SQ after 600.
> 800's tonality is much better.
> https://www.headfonia.com/hifiman-tws-800-review/


I'd rather wait for sonething credible.  Headphonia is a fake reviews site.  I need to see the measurements.  Hifiman doesn't have a good track history of well tuned iems.


----------



## VICosPhi

tma6 said:


> Haha I have the MEST too. Reviewed em on head fi if you wanna check that out! I liked the Sennys sound quality but that might be a bit of a stretch. I’d say more like 65-70%


Nice review  How are you liking your MEST? Fit seems to be the only issue for me. Gonna try with some Spiral Dot+ now as those give really good bass+treble and comfort!


----------



## bronco1015

Wanted to share some thoughts after spending time with the latest models i've had in for Review. The Technics AZ70, i've had these for about 3 months now, and i really like them. ANC is pretty solid. Was leaps and bounds better than that on the MTW2, but after i updated the MTW2 a month or so ago, the ANC really improved and now the ANC is close. They're both really great. The Ambiant mode on AZ70 out of the box is pretty veiled. Not a very full sound, but effective. Though someone posted several pages back that an update helped with this. Sound in default mode. The bass is really fun on these. the mids have this weird sound. It isn't jarring to my ears, it just isn't as natural as some other products are. but i adjust to it pretty quickly. The treble is muted a bit, these aren't muddy at all, really it's kind of sloppy and splashy. I think that's a better way to describe the treble. Bass increases with ANC on. i'm pointing this all out, but i really do like these. They're well built, and are comfortable to wear for several hours. i enjoy the energy these have with a wide variety of music. Call quality in public and in a quiet room hasn't yielded any complaints, so i'll call that a win. These are the only model i've either gotten for review or purchased that pair as one unit, but can seamlessly be used in mono mode. Theres no waiting for one iem to disconnect and the other reconnect to the phone. They just keep playing music, regardless of which one is in the case. and no, the other one isn't still powered on while it's in the case, I was suspicious of this. that earns them a high mark in my book. i'd say for $200-$150, these are a great purchase.
Shure Aonic 215:: i've never liked the 215. It's always sounded bloated, muddy, and i've never understood why Shure seems determined to die on the 215 hill. That said, and maybe it's the adapter, these definitely sound related to the 215, but they have a clarity in the mids, and reduced bass. I kinda like them tbh, and i'm surprised and confused. i'm curious if anyone has compared Shure's adapter to the BT 20 pro or any other adapters. i'm tempted to buy some other wired iems to pair with this adapter. Ambiant mode isn't the strongest out of what i currently have, but it's not to bad either. Call quality is only in the right ear, last TW IEM i can remember that on was the PSB M4U TW1. I don't like that particularly. These also don't have great range in my experience. I can only get about 15-20 feet from my phone then i start having dropouts.
B&O BeoPlay E8 Sport.
The MSRP is $350? Why? i'd say $160 tops for these. Nice case, BT5.1, wireless charging, well built IEMS with fins on them, they are a lot more comfortable to wear than i expected they would be.
only had these and the Aonic's for a few days so don't have the reviews for them finished yet, but initial impressions on the E8 Sport. Ambiant mode is a step down from MTW2, but more natural than that of the AZ70, with similar volume.
mids are laid -back. Treble is similar to that of the Technics IMO, and bass is impactful but not as fun as the Technics. Haven't eqed them at all yet, and again these are just initial impressions.


----------



## Kalli

Is there any TWS option out there with similar fit to the Shure shells or the Tin Hifi T2 Plus? I have a really hard time to get good fit.
Sound wise I like the Moondrop Starfield, Thie Audio Legacy 3 and the Tin Hifi T2 Plus.


----------



## FYLegend

With all these "glowing reviews" of Jabra adding ANC it seems like they're selling out fast and on Amazon the shipping now says 1-2 months... Currently 219$ CAD when a few weeks ago it was 191 and 150 on Prime Day. Not sure how things will play out on Black Friday or Boxing Day this year...


----------



## bronco1015

Kalli said:


> Is there any TWS option out there with similar fit to the Shure shells or the Tin Hifi T2 Plus? I have a really hard time to get good fit.
> Sound wise I like the Moondrop Starfield, Thie Audio Legacy 3 and the Tin Hifi T2 Plus.


I'm actually looking for some Iems to pair with the Shure adapter that have that same form factor as the 215, SE425 etc.


----------



## Kalli

bronco1015 said:


> I'm actually looking for some Iems to pair with the Shure adapter that have that same form factor as the 215, SE425 etc.


The Tin Hifi T2 Plus are pretty similar if it comes to fit. For me they're actually more comfortable by a small amount. Their sound is way ahead of the SE215.
I also tried the SE535. While they're a bit better than the T2+, I wasn't happy with them. It's also 300-350€ vs 60€ ...

My Shure adapter is arriving tomorrow.


----------



## eiraku

FYLegend said:


> With all these "glowing reviews" of Jabra adding ANC it seems like they're selling out fast and on Amazon the shipping now says 1-2 months... Currently 219$ CAD when a few weeks ago it was 191 and 150 on Prime Day. Not sure how things will play out on Black Friday or Boxing Day this year...



Yeah. Imma starting to think I might splurge for a 85T if not just for the ANC and the multipairing alone 🤣


----------



## Ynot1

FYI. I could not post this in the deals thread because it is something else.

"We just newly released our Tranya first Dual EQ Setting Bass Boost wireless earbuds M10. We now need 10 people to test and share their feedback in the community, on social media and another platform if you have the shipping experience on Amazon.

If you are interested, please click the button below and Contact yokin@tranya.com to request."

The button is just the email link.

And M10 was talked about here before so I dunno if something has changed.


----------



## regancipher

Laethageal said:


> I've just had random chat on the phone with my boy recording the call and asking him what was his opinion on call quality. I went from the Edifier NB2 2 buds on, quiet environment, to noisy, then single bud quiet and noisy as well. He had a hard time understanding what I was saying went using 1 bud with TV on at moderately high volume with general simple chitchat from Brooklyn 99.
> 
> I then switched to the Soundcore L2P. They were clearly better sounding and had less issue in general, with voice feeling more deep, but it isn't exceptional either and there was some bitrate drop you could easily hear, mostly with 1 bud in noisy (tv chitchat from same sequence of Brooklyn 99 at same volume).
> 
> ...



Hmmmm yeah it sounds a bit muffled. It sounds like your voice is being compressed out. This is very interesting and something I hadn't given enough thought to - the frequency range of our own voices. I went back and tested again and asked my kids to test too. Their voices come through crystal clear, mine is not quite so clear. I tested on my Boltune BT-BH024 and they are very similar to the L2P - more noise coming through but voice is much clearer.

*** now I'm gonna have to change the way I test call quality and call baritones!!!

Thanks for sharing - very useful! Will now rethink how much depth I go into when testing call quality.


----------



## bronco1015

The Jlab Epic air ANC sport is being shipped to me for review, i'll post my review here as well. Supposedly 15 hour battery life per charge??I don't know about that, but would be awesome if they really are. This will be another first for me, haven't heard any JLab products before, but they've had some good bang for your buck cheap pairs in the past, maybe this will be one of those.


----------



## Laethageal

regancipher said:


> Hmmmm yeah it sounds a bit muffled. It sounds like your voice is being compressed out. This is very interesting and something I hadn't given enough thought to - the frequency range of our own voices. I went back and tested again and asked my kids to test too. Their voices come through crystal clear, mine is not quite so clear. I tested on my Boltune BT-BH024 and they are very similar to the L2P - more noise coming through but voice is much clearer.
> 
> *** now I'm gonna have to change the way I test call quality and call baritones!!!
> 
> Thanks for sharing - very useful! Will now rethink how much depth I go into when testing call quality.


I am also wondering if there could be compression on my cellphone line provider side. Will try to test with Teams this week.


----------



## tma6 (Oct 26, 2020)

VICosPhi said:


> Nice review  How are you liking your MEST? Fit seems to be the only issue for me. Gonna try with some Spiral Dot+ now as those give really good bass+treble and comfort!



I’m a huge fan, particularly paired w a warmer dap (right now using the cayin N6). Yeah for was tricky for me too until I got the xelastic tips. For the first few days of trying em they’re a bit sticky and uncomfortable, but after a bit of use they almost mold to your inner ear shape and now the mests are super comfy for me.

Will also be doing a thie clairvoyance review at some point when I find the time.



Kalli said:


> Is there any TWS option out there with similar fit to the Shure shells or the Tin Hifi T2 Plus? I have a really hard time to get good fit.
> Sound wise I like the Moondrop Starfield, Thie Audio Legacy 3 and the Tin Hifi T2 Plus.



If you like the L3s then I almost want to recommend the 85ts. They’re not bassier than the L3, and in some ways they’re better  *cough* treble extension. Also they’re very comfy for me and I have small ears, and they don’t go too deep though ymmv.



FYLegend said:


> With all these "glowing reviews" of Jabra adding ANC it seems like they're selling out fast and on Amazon the shipping now says 1-2 months... Currently 219$ CAD when a few weeks ago it was 191 and 150 on Prime Day. Not sure how things will play out on Black Friday or Boxing Day this year...



Damn sorry to hear that man. I’m sure it’ll be less than a month once Jabra actually fully stocks them. It’s tough not to hype the 85ts though hahah. I usually do not like how jabra tunes their audio products at all, even some of their wireless headphones I’ve tried over the past few years, but these are really just shocking to me how good they sound. I was expecting the features to be good to some extent, but I’m just consistently surprised but the SQ. Only thing is I do EQ down the lower highs a little.

Actually, here’s my current EQ profile for the 85ts for those interested:


----------



## Kalli (Oct 26, 2020)

tma6 said:


> If you like the L3s then I almost want to recommend the 85ts. They’re not bassier than the L3, and in some ways they’re better  *cough* treble extension. Also they’re very comfy for me and I have small ears, and they don’t go too deep though ymmv.


Hmm, interesting. I also hear a lot of good opinions on those (and their predecessors).

EDIT 1: What's the difference between the "active" and "non active" versions in the Jabra Elite lineup?
EDIT 2: Still no aptX? Why does noone ever think of Android users?


----------



## diimaan

tma6 said:


> I’m a huge fan, particularly paired w a warmer dap (right now using the cayin N6). Yeah for was tricky for me too until I got the xelastic tips. For the first few days of trying em they’re a bit sticky and uncomfortable, but after a bit of use they almost mold to your inner ear shape and now the mests are super comfy for me.
> 
> Will also be doing a thie clairvoyance review at some point when I find the time.
> 
> ...



Hi,

Could you let me know about the wind noise with 85T's? Are they a good pair for biking?


----------



## dj24

Iam assuming that Jabra will release the active version of the 85t in the near future... I don't know why they don't release it simultaneously with the regular version though..


----------



## clerkpalmer

dj24 said:


> Iam assuming that Jabra will release the active version of the 85t in the near future... I don't know why they don't release it simultaneously with the regular version though..


Because they want you to buy both.  Classic marketing strategy and ultimately annoying for the consumer.  They know the active will outsell the regular 5 to 1.  Once they are both available, why would anyone bother with the regular.


----------



## assassin10000 (Oct 26, 2020)

Kalli said:


> Is there any TWS option out there with similar fit to the Shure shells or the Tin Hifi T2 Plus? I have a really hard time to get good fit.
> Sound wise I like the Moondrop Starfield, Thie Audio Legacy 3 and the Tin Hifi T2 Plus.



Tronsmart Spunky Beats, onyx neo and onyx free.
Kissrael K18/anbes 359
Bomaker sifi

The Galaxy Buds+ fit nicely as well. My Air-XR's fit even better, I prefer their fit over the T2+ personally. Ymmv.



bronco1015 said:


> I'm actually looking for some Iems to pair with the Shure adapter that have that same form factor as the 215, SE425 etc.



Se425, 534 or 846 are of course options, Westones W-series & UM/AM pro lines, Shozy Neo CP. Audiosense T180/T260/T300 (I'd probably try the T260), MDK-ESS/Pizen ASY and the previously mentioned Tin T2+. Edit: Fiio has a few too iirc, like the F9.

LZ A7 maybe, not sure if the piezo in it will need more power than the adapter can provide. I asked in the A7 thread if they were power hungry but no response yet.


I'm a fan of these 'bean' shaped shells as they are typically way more comfortable and fit way better than the semi-custom shaped universal shells.


----------



## Highfiver

vladzakhar said:


> I think 85Ts ANC is on pair Bose QCs. Not better though. Passive isolation is better for sure, especially with spin fit tips I am using.
> I had no complains from people to whom I called with ether one.


Which Spinfit model tips are you using on the 85t’s? In addition to the improved ANC with the Spinfits, do you notice any difference in sound quality vs the 85t stick tips? I’ve got the old but trusty CP-100’s for IEM’s, the CP-360’s which I use on a bunch of my TWS Buds, and the CP-1025’s for the APP’s. Hoping one of these will work!


----------



## Highfiver

Bhelpoori said:


> Thank you. Equivalent is good enough for me.
> Is that the Spinfit CP360?


You beat me to this question. Exactly what I want to know...


----------



## Highfiver

tma6 said:


> Ooof that's a bit steep. I would still say you wouldn't be disappointed by the SQ, but that's a bit much for my liking particularly if there are other options that are more reasonable. Can you get a hold of the Lypertek TEVIs for a decent price? Those are another relatively flat / neutral w a hint of bass boost that you might like. Definitely great detail and staging for the price. Very pleasant tuning.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Do the 85t’s protrude out from the ears a lot more than the 75t’s? The 85t’s appear to be a little bigger than the 75t’s but not sure if they “seat” differently in the ear.


----------



## trivik12

One are where 85t has regressed from 75t is 85t is just ipx4 while 75t is ip55. elite active 75t is ip57. I guess ipx4 is good enough to be used for workouts but I dont know Jabra has made it worse.


----------



## tma6

Kalli said:


> Hmm, interesting. I also hear a lot of good opinions on those (and their predecessors).
> 
> EDIT 1: What's the difference between the "active" and "non active" versions in the Jabra Elite lineup?
> EDIT 2: Still no aptX? Why does noone ever think of Android users?



Yeah lack of AptX is frustrating. I’m working off an iPhone and Windows computer that doesn’t have AptX so it doesn’t affect me. I know that SBC has improved a lot in the past year or so but it’s still no AptX. 




diimaan said:


> Hi,
> 
> Could you let me know about the wind noise with 85T's? Are they a good pair for biking?



Haven’t used them for biking, but I think someone on this thread said that they do pick up quite a bit of wind noise when biking. They pick up a little on a breezy day but I’ve found that it deals with wind noise pretty well overall under  circumstances. Maybe not great for biking until Jabra updates these like Sony did with the xm3s to deal with strong wind noise better.



Highfiver said:


> Do the 85t’s protrude out from the ears a lot more than the 75t’s? The 85t’s appear to be a little bigger than the 75t’s but not sure if they “seat” differently in the ear.



They protrude a little more than the originals for me, but it’s not too much. They still look sleek and small compared with most other TWS on the market, and particularly compared w those that offer ANC.


----------



## tma6 (Oct 26, 2020)

trivik12 said:


> One are where 85t has regressed from 75t is 85t is just ipx4 while 75t is ip55. elite active 75t is ip57. I guess ipx4 is good enough to be used for workouts but I dont know Jabra has made it worse.



Most buds that have hardware based ANC are ipx4 bc they require external microphones that usually create more failure points when exposed to water / external particles. Previous Jabra buds did not have hybrid external noise cancelling mics so they were easier to seal


----------



## dj24

tma6 said:


> Most buds that have hardware based ANC are ipx4 bc they require external microphones that usually create more failure points when exposed to water / external particles. Previous Jabra buds did not have hybrid external noise cancelling mics so they were easier to seal



I didn't think about this.  Do you think the 85T active will have a lower IP rating compared to past versions?  In that case I might as well consider picking up the 75T Active instead.  Although I did try the regular 75T when they first came out, I found the bass to be a bloated mess and ended up returning them.  That might've been premature though as everyone has been saying that this was addressed with future firmware updates..


----------



## webvan

Hybrid ANC adds internal microphones so I don't think that would be the reason for a lower rating since the external microphones are going to be there anyway. I wonder if the 75Ts already had non activated internal mics since their ANC is described as excellent.


----------



## matneh

Lots of good true wireless coming out, so I'm jumping on the bandwagon of searching for the holy grail!  In the past I've tried the Earin M-2, Jabra 75t, AirPods Pro, Jaybird Run, and have been unhappy with all of them.  Recently I acquired the Bose QuietComfort and the Jabra 85T.

The QC are REALLY good, great isolation, great noise cancelling, great sound, and will NOT fall out.  But the little fin that holds the earbuds in irritates my ear (earritates?).

The Jabra 85t are totally the opposite.  Poor isolation which then contributes to poor noise cancelling and poor sound quality.  And nothing keeps these guys in my ear, even with the largest tips.

Does anyone have a suggestion for eartips for the Jabras that would be worth trying before I send them back?


----------



## howdy

matneh said:


> Lots of good true wireless coming out, so I'm jumping on the bandwagon of searching for the holy grail!  In the past I've tried the Earin M-2, Jabra 75t, AirPods Pro, Jaybird Run, and have been unhappy with all of them.  Recently I acquired the Bose QuietComfort and the Jabra 85T.
> 
> The QC are REALLY good, great isolation, great noise cancelling, great sound, and will NOT fall out.  But the little fin that holds the earbuds in irritates my ear (earritates?).
> 
> ...


Yep, seems as if you are not getting a good seal. I can put mine in a vigorously shake my head and get no movement at all. Mine are close to a complete seal I just wish my tips are a little bit bigger to get sealed. They sound good but if I push down a little bit to get a good seal they sound phenomenal. They might make number 1 of all the ones I have.


----------



## assassin10000

matneh said:


> Does anyone have a suggestion for eartips for the Jabras that would be worth trying before I send them back?



The generic foam APP tips may work. Also the APP Xelastec tips. Depending on the actual nozzle design and dimensions. Both will need to be removed from their oval APP adapters.

Since they are on oval shaped adapters they become round when removed.


----------



## bronco1015

assassin10000 said:


> Tronsmart Spunky Beats, onyx neo and onyx free.
> Kissrael K18/anbes 359
> Bomaker sifi
> 
> ...


awesome. Thanks for the suggestions. Quite the variety to choose from which i'm happy about. yeah i love my Anbes 359, gonna have to finally reglue the left iem's button. It's moving on me a bit after 17 months of use. Yeah i do have quite a few pairs to listen to, but they and the MTW1 get used the most. Miss the spunky Beats great sq, isolation and form factor. Would potentially look at Galaxy buds plus or live, but not in the samsung sandbox so imo they aren't worth getting with no aptx or even aac.


----------



## Tronsmart Official

assassin10000 said:


> Tronsmart Spunky Beats, onyx neo and onyx free.
> Kissrael K18/anbes 359
> Bomaker sifi
> 
> ...


Thanks for recommendation!


----------



## assassin10000

bronco1015 said:


> Would potentially look at Galaxy buds plus or live, but not in the samsung sandbox so imo they aren't worth getting with no aptx or even aac.



IIRC both have AAC, Samsung scalable and cripled SBC. Just no APT-X.

I had both the Buds+ & Buds Live and used them on my Android phone with AAC.


----------



## Kalli

assassin10000 said:


> Tronsmart Spunky Beats, onyx neo and onyx free.
> Kissrael K18/anbes 359
> Bomaker sifi
> 
> The Galaxy Buds+ fit nicely as well. My Air-XR's fit even better, I prefer their fit over the T2+ personally. Ymmv.


Are any of those comparable to the T2+ in sound as well?
The Buds+ didn't fit me at all.


----------



## assassin10000

Kalli said:


> Are any of those comparable to the T2+ in sound as well?
> The Buds+ didn't fit me at all.



I don't believe so. You may be better served by picking up a BT20 or BT20S and using it with your T2+. 

I used my BT20S with my T2+. I know @chinmie did as well. Although he may be using the BT20S Pro with them now.


----------



## Kalli

assassin10000 said:


> I don't believe so. You may be better served by picking up a BT20 or BT20S and using it with your T2+.
> 
> I used my BT20S with my T2+. I know @chinmie did as well. Although he may be using the BT20S Pro with them now.


Since I would really like to have some kind of environment/ambient mode, I'm stuck with the Shure TW1 (probably arriving today) then. Or maybe the upcoming FiiO UTWS3 (any thoughts on this one? The new one, not the UTWS1).

So with the T2+, there is no real "true TWS" alternative? So I'm better of with wired IEM + TWS adapter?
Upgrading the IEM at some point may be nice as well.


----------



## assassin10000

Kalli said:


> Since I would really like to have some kind of environment/ambient mode, I'm stuck with the Shure TW1 (probably arriving today) then. Or maybe the upcoming FiiO UTWS3 (any thoughts on this one? The new one, not the UTWS1).
> 
> So with the T2+, there is no real "true TWS" alternative? So I'm better of with wired IEM + TWS adapter?
> Upgrading the IEM at some point may be nice as well.



You could do something like the Smabat M1 pro and a BT20/BT20S, or any other MMCX earbud that would work with the angled connectors.

Earbuds are way more natural for ambient awareness than any ambient mode.


----------



## Kalli

assassin10000 said:


> You could do something like the Smabat M1 pro and a BT20/BT20S, or any other MMCX earbud that would work with the angled connectors.
> 
> Earbuds are way more natural for ambient awareness than any ambient mode.


Hey, thanks a lot. And I'm totally aware of that, but I also want to use them for commuting, so isolation is needed.
Basically I'm trying to find something that works for everything (commuting, awareness, calls, classical music).


----------



## dweaver (Oct 27, 2020)

Decided to give the Status Between Pro a try at their $79 early bird price. Hopefully they sound good and hopefully they have a few more features than advertised. 

As it was they tacked on $15 for shipping because I am in Canada, so my cost ended up being $125cad so not exactly a steal.

Might regret the decision but will now have to wait and see.

Just noticed they have transparency mode. Thats going to be useful. If they are more balanced than the L2P I will pretty happy. If they have ANC and just forgot mention it I would be ecstatic lol. Not likely though... 

One more point I missed. These also support multipoint functionality so can have them see to use my computer and phone at the same. Very nice feature.

Untel they arrive I am going to enjoy my XB700 and the L2P.


----------



## myltz400

Difference in case size for the Jabra 75t and 85t.  For anyone that might like to know.


----------



## Highfiver (Oct 27, 2020)

Has anyone with the 85t’s found any alternative ear tips that fit the earbuds without coming off? Even the largest of the included Jabra tips are not creating a good seal for me. Thanks in advance!


----------



## myltz400

Highfiver said:


> Has anyone with the 85t’s found any ear tips that fit them? Even the largest stock tip is not creating a good deal. Thanks in advance!


I have not.  So far the 75T is much more comfortable in my ears. I'm hesitant to say this because of the popularity, but I'm not really liking the 85T's. I think the 75T is the sweet spot especially considering the price.


----------



## Highfiver

myltz400 said:


> I have not.  So far the 75T is much more comfortable in my ears. I'm hesitant to say this because of the popularity, but I'm not really liking the 85T's. I think the 75T is the sweet spot especially considering the price.


Thanks for the reply. That’s disappointing as I had high hopes for these. Somewhere in this thread a forum member with the 85t’s mentioned having found some spin fits that fit them and create a better seal. Can’t seem to find the post at the moment. Also don’t think the model/type of spin fits was listed...


----------



## myltz400

I have a few spinfits I can try and let you know.  I'm not sure I can find the exact model of them though. I prefer things to work "out of the box". There is a big difference in the sound between the 75t and 85t.  The 75 being much warmer.  I do believe when people state that the 85t have a more true or balanced sound, but that kind of thing doesn't matter to me if I don't like it.  

I'm starting to suspect my 85ts are not working properly, I can detect some white noise in the right ear and lots of speaker flex when switching between anc modes.


----------



## dweaver

I have laugh, when I signed up for the Status Between Pro, they had it set as 350 available, then they increased it to 500, now its up to 650. Classic marketing technic. A bit annoying. But glad they are allowing more people to get it at the intro price. I have a feeling this is going to sound good. No reason for that but I just have a feeling...


----------



## Highfiver

myltz400 said:


> I have a few spinfits I can try and let you know.  I'm not sure I can find the exact model of them though. I prefer things to work "out of the box". There is a big difference in the sound between the 75t and 85t.  The 75 being much warmer.  I do believe when people state that the 85t have a more true or balanced sound, but that kind of thing doesn't matter to me if I don't like it.
> 
> I'm starting to suspect my 85ts are not working properly, I can detect some white noise in the right ear and lots of speaker flex when switching between anc modes.


I’d really appreciate it if you would be kind enough to try some of the tips you have on hand. Even if you don’t know the model, if you find some that work and can take a pic of them, I’m sure I can track them down and order them. 

What size of the stock tips are you using now?Are you able to tweak the sound a bit more to your liking by using an equalizer. Some of my true wireless buds have terrible low end sound and I’ve found a great iOS EQ app that works seamlessly with Spotify (which is my main source of music) and has a million features, including importing external music for playback.

Sorry to hear about the issues you’re having with the 85t’s. Did you purchase them locally whereby you can exchange them for another set or do you think you’ll just return them?


----------



## rhsauer

Highfiver said:


> Thanks for the reply. That’s disappointing as I had high hopes for these. Somewhere in this thread a forum member with the 85t’s mentioned having found some spin fits that fit them and create a better seal. Can’t seem to find the post at the moment. Also don’t think the model/type of spin fits was listed...


I've been using the 85t's for a few days and, while at first I thought I wasn't getting a good fit, I now think one of the advances in these earphones is that they work well with an intentionally shallow fit.  These earphones don't (and aren't supposed to) "seal" the way the 75t's or most other IEMs do.  As a result, they're very comfortable. Thanks to the very large driver they sound terrific without a seal -- and although YMMV I find the bass to be terrific.  The trade off is the loss of passive noise reduction -- but the active noise reduction does a very good job making up for that.  It's just a different paradigm.  They really are a re-imagining of the TWS category.


----------



## TK33

Highfiver said:


> I’d really appreciate it if you would be kind enough to try some of the tips you have on hand. Even if you don’t know the model, if you find some that work and can take a pic of them, I’m sure I can track them down and order them.
> 
> What size of the stock tips are you using now?Are you able to tweak the sound a bit more to your liking by using an equalizer. Some of my true wireless buds have terrible low end sound and I’ve found a great iOS EQ app that works seamlessly with Spotify (which is my main source of music) and has a million features, including importing external music for playback.
> 
> Sorry to hear about the issues you’re having with the 85t’s. Did you purchase them locally whereby you can exchange them for another set or do you think you’ll just return them?



Spinfit tips are usually color coded.  You could probably reach out to them as well.  I recall them being pretty responsive.  For true wireless I think Spinfit has the CP360 and CP100z (CP360 is shorter so it fits in more cases).  You really need to try them for yourself though since the shape of everyone's ears are different.


----------



## Highfiver

rhsauer said:


> I've been using the 85t's for a few days and, while at first I thought I wasn't getting a good fit, I now think one of the advances in these earphones is that they work well with an intentionally shallow fit.  These earphones don't (and aren't supposed to) "seal" the way the 75t's or most other IEMs do.  As a result, they're very comfortable. Thanks to the very large driver they sound terrific without a seal -- and although YMMV I find the bass to be terrific.  The trade off is the loss of passive noise reduction -- but the active noise reduction does a very good job making up for that.  It's just a different paradigm.  They really are a re-imagining of the TWS category.





TK33 said:


> Spinfit tips are usually color coded.  You could probably reach out to them as well.  I recall them being pretty responsive.  For true wireless I think Spinfit has the CP360 and CP100z (CP360 is shorter so it fits in more cases).  You really need to try them for yourself though since the shape of everyone's ears are different.
> [/QU
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## clerkpalmer

I sold my original MTW2 in favor of the N400 a few months ago but now the MTW2 with the new enhanced sound mode has caught my interest so I just grabbed a set off of eBay.  Looking forward to hearing whether this DSP mode can take these to the next level.  I still love the N400 but they've taken a back seat to the Bose largely due to the fact that they never seem charged when I need them.


----------



## myltz400 (Oct 27, 2020)

"I’d really appreciate it if you would be kind enough to try some of the tips you have on hand. Even if you don’t know the model, if you find some that work and can take a pic of them, I’m sure I can track them down and order them.

What size of the stock tips are you using now?Are you able to tweak the sound a bit more to your liking by using an equalizer. Some of my true wireless buds have terrible low end sound and I’ve found a great iOS EQ app that works seamlessly with Spotify (which is my main source of music) and has a million features, including importing external music for playback."


I am experimenting with the small tips pushed a little further in the ear canal.  I did get them exchanged at Best Buy and my first pair were definitely defective. All of those fit with a little finesse.  Not sure if the red ones are spinfit or not.  These are the ones I had on hand.


----------



## Luchyres

Uggghhh all of this is making me want to try the 75T Active's too


myltz400 said:


> I am experimenting with the small tips pushed a little further in the ear canal.  I did get them exchanged at Best Buy and my first pair were definitely defective. All of those fit with a little finesse.  Not sure if the red ones are spinfit or not.  These are the ones I had on hand.



How would you describe the defect? I am hearing some oddities with my 85T but I can't tell if it's just due to some weird handoff between my phone AAC and laptop SBC and call sources. Just a little crackling etc.

All this talk about the 75T and I'm thinking of getting them for exercise....


----------



## varta

Hi all, considering that 11/11 and Black Friday are coming up, do you have any recommendations what to watch out for in the low to mid-range price range?
Based on reviews I'm thinking about getting the Haylou GT1 Plus for occasional outside listening since they can be grabbed at ~$20 these days, but not really sure how much should I expect in terms of SQ. Is there anything better sounding in the sub-$50 price range?

Also, did the situation change and is there currently something anywhere close to VSonic GR07 or similar in terms of SQ in the TWS world regardless of price?


----------



## hifi80sman

rhsauer said:


> I've been using the 85t's for a few days and, while at first I thought I wasn't getting a good fit, I now think one of the advances in these earphones is that they work well with an intentionally shallow fit.  These earphones don't (and aren't supposed to) "seal" the way the 75t's or most other IEMs do.  As a result, they're very comfortable. Thanks to the very large driver they sound terrific without a seal -- and although YMMV I find the bass to be terrific.  The trade off is the loss of passive noise reduction -- but the active noise reduction does a very good job making up for that.  It's just a different paradigm.  They really are a re-imagining of the TWS category.


a lot of mixed reviews for the 85t.  I wonder how much of it is due to what seems to be poor fit/isolation.  Also, does the new "vent" make them semi-open like the Bose Sport or is is far more modest and still mostly closed?


----------



## myltz400 (Oct 27, 2020)

Luchyres said:


> Uggghhh all of this is making me want to try the 75T Active's too
> 
> 
> How would you describe the defect? I am hearing some oddities with my 85T but I can't tell if it's just due to some weird handoff between my phone AAC and laptop SBC and call sources. Just a little crackling etc.
> ...


It was obvious, sounded like a sea shell against my right ear.  Had other people confirm what I was hearing.  I think jabra are known for uneven connect/disconnect anomalies.  Occasional bass thud and such.


----------



## tgx78 (Oct 27, 2020)

varta said:


> Hi all, considering that 11/11 and Black Friday are coming up, do you have any recommendations what to watch out for in the low to mid-range price range?
> Based on reviews I'm thinking about getting the Haylou GT1 Plus for occasional outside listening since they can be grabbed at ~$20 these days, but not really sure how much should I expect in terms of SQ. Is there anything better sounding in the sub-$50 price range?
> 
> Also, did the situation change and is there currently something anywhere close to VSonic GR07 or similar in terms of SQ in the TWS world regardless of price?






Haylou GT1 plus is very good indoor TWS with balanced sound signature.
Soundpeats Truedot is a good outdoor TWS with very nice sub-bass extension.
I feel GT1 plus’ passive isolation is quite good so I want to recommend it over the truedot.
In terms of resolution, they are good but still not quite resolving as similarly price wired IEMs.
(KZ, TRN, NiceHCK etc)


----------



## regancipher

dweaver said:


> Decided to give the Status Between Pro a try at their $79 early bird price. Hopefully they sound good and hopefully they have a few more features than advertised.
> 
> As it was they tacked on $15 for shipping because I am in Canada, so my cost ended up being $125cad so not exactly a steal.
> 
> ...


I was just looking for someone else who had signed up! I think I'm gonna do the same.

Also a quick question for the wider community: I've read about issues with static interference in ambient mode on earbuds before but never actually had the problem myself. Any mifo o5, o4 or o9 owners confirm if it's a widespread problem?

It's unbearable - like the sound you used to get if you left your mobile phone near your speaker, a constant bip bip bip. I almost tolerated it as the fit is so good but I do use ambient mode quite a bit so would find it annoying eventually....is it a design issue or an isolated fault?


----------



## erockg

clerkpalmer said:


> I sold my original MTW2 in favor of the N400 a few months ago but now the MTW2 with the new enhanced sound mode has caught my interest so I just grabbed a set off of eBay.  Looking forward to hearing whether this DSP mode can take these to the next level.  I still love the N400 but they've taken a back seat to the Bose largely due to the fact that they never seem charged when I need them.


Zero complains with the new enhanced mode.  Pretty impressive actually.  I returned my Bose.


----------



## Laethageal

dweaver said:


> I have laugh, when I signed up for the Status Between Pro, they had it set as 350 available, then they increased it to 500, now its up to 650. Classic marketing technic. A bit annoying. But glad they are allowing more people to get it at the intro price. I have a feeling this is going to sound good. No reason for that but I just have a feeling...


This is the kind of lies in marketing I cannot stand. 
Call me crazy, but I am a person with principles and as such, I hereby promise to never purchase ANY of their product even if they someday product the perfect TWS with godly comfort and SQ and offer it to me for free.


----------



## Fudgebar

guys, how are the Senheiser True Momentum Wireless 2 Earbuds?  I can get them on sale for $229 US   but Im still worried since I dont know if these are the best sounding musical TWS on the market right now.   I think alot of the China brands have closed the gap in audio quality?....thoughts?   I dont want to spend 229 if these arent the best sounding TWs on the market right now


please share your thoughts


----------



## erockg

Fudgebar said:


> guys, how are the Senheiser True Momentum Wireless 2 Earbuds?  I can get them on sale for $229 US   but Im still worried since I dont know if these are the best sounding musical TWS on the market right now.   I think alot of the China brands have closed the gap in audio quality?....thoughts?   I dont want to spend 229 if these arent the best sounding TWs on the market right now
> 
> 
> please share your thoughts


Sound is subjective.  What I think is phenomenal, you may not.  That said, I have these and I'm rocking out with them now.  One of my favorite true wireless earbuds I own.  For that price, they are a steal.  You get what you pay for IMO.  Coming from a Jersey native


----------



## Highfiver

rhsauer said:


> I've been using the 85t's for a few days and, while at first I thought I wasn't getting a good fit, I now think one of the advances in these earphones is that they work well with an intentionally shallow fit.  These earphones don't (and aren't supposed to) "seal" the way the 75t's or most other IEMs do.  As a result, they're very comfortable. Thanks to the very large driver they sound terrific without a seal -- and although YMMV I find the bass to be terrific.  The trade off is the loss of passive noise reduction -- but the active noise reduction does a very good job making up for that.  It's just a different paradigm.  They really are a re-imagining of the TWS category.


I was just thinking about this before checking out the forum. I’m so used to jamming all the various elite Buds in my ear as far as possible while “twisting” to get a good seal. That’s kind of what I’ve been doing with the 85t’s. I guess I’m 
Confused as to how far into the ear canal the tips of these are supposed to go. And if you should still twist them while them pushing in. I’d love to hear any tips (no pun intended) as to the best technique to insert these buds to get the best fit and sound.


----------



## Highfiver (Oct 27, 2020)

myltz400 said:


> "I’d really appreciate it if you would be kind enough to try some of the tips you have on hand. Even if you don’t know the model, if you find some that work and can take a pic of them, I’m sure I can track them down and order them.
> 
> What size of the stock tips are you using now?Are you able to tweak the sound a bit more to your liking by using an equalizer. Some of my true wireless buds have terrible low end sound and I’ve found a great iOS EQ app that works seamlessly with Spotify (which is my main source of music) and has a million features, including importing external music for playback."
> 
> ...


Are you referring to the Jabra small size 85t tips? I’m actually thinking of trying the same thing. The bigger ones are killing my ears since I think I’m pushing them into my ear canals further than they’re meant to go.

Thanks for the picture. Those are the medium sized Spinfit CP100’s. Actually have those snd the large size somewhere around here.

Glad you were able to get your defective 85t’s swapped out.


----------



## Highfiver

regancipher said:


> I was just looking for someone else who had signed up! I think I'm gonna do the same.
> 
> Also a quick question for the wider community: I've read about issues with static interference in ambient mode on earbuds before but never actually had the problem myself. Any mifo o5, o4 or o9 owners confirm if it's a widespread problem?
> 
> It's unbearable - like the sound you used to get if you left your mobile phone near your speaker, a constant bip bip bip. I almost tolerated it as the fit is so good but I do use ambient mode quite a bit so would find it annoying eventually....is it a design issue or an isolated fault?


I have two Mifo 05's (DD version and BA version) and have never experienced that issue you’re describing.


----------



## Highfiver

erockg said:


> Zero complains with the new enhanced mode.  Pretty impressive actually.  I returned my Bose.


Do you know if the enhanced mode is available only on the Android app or if it’s on the iOS version as well?


----------



## Highfiver

Question for the 85t owners...without using the Jabra app, how do you turn off ANC and/or hear through to just get “normal sound”? In the button mapping section of the Jabra App, the only option related to this is setting a toggle between ANC and hear through. There’s no “normal sound” setting (like on the AirPod Pros). So, once I’ve used ANC and/or hear through, the only way I’ve found to turn both off and get back to “normal sound” is having to go into the Jabra off and turn ANC/hear through off manually.


----------



## erockg

Highfiver said:


> Do you know if the enhanced mode is available only on the Android app or if it’s on the iOS version as well?


I'm on iOS and have it


----------



## Highfiver

erockg said:


> I'm on iOS and have it


Awesome. Thanks man 👍🏻 .


----------



## diimaan

dweaver said:


> I have laugh, when I signed up for the Status Between Pro, they had it set as 350 available, then they increased it to 500, now its up to 650. Classic marketing technic. A bit annoying. But glad they are allowing more people to get it at the intro price. I have a feeling this is going to sound good. No reason for that but I just have a feeling...



Can you confirm where did you see the quoted price? I do see in their home page that the retail price is going to be 169$!


----------



## erockg

Highfiver said:


> Awesome. Thanks man 👍🏻 .


----------



## dweaver

diimaan said:


> Can you confirm where did you see the quoted price? I do see in their home page that the retail price is going to be 169$!


https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/..._link&utm_medium=email&utm_source=lifecycle#/

Hope its ok to post that link


----------



## SilverEars

hifi80sman said:


> a lot of mixed reviews for the 85t.  I wonder how much of it is due to what seems to be poor fit/isolation.  Also, does the new "vent" make them semi-open like the Bose Sport or is is far more modest and still mostly closed?


I won't bite until I see the measurements.  75t was horrendous is the reason for the hesitation.


----------



## jant71

JVC's first ANC model will be about $99 and be IPX4, have "touch and talk", 10mm driver, full controls, FPC antenna, SBC/AAC, get 6/24 hours with ANC and 8/32 ANC off, are USB C, and come with two pair of foam tips.


----------



## Kalli

So, my Shure RMCE-TW1 adapter arrived and I used it for a bit with my Tin Hifi T2 Plus.
See here if you want to read more: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/shure-rmce-tw1-shure-cuts-the-cord.928960/page-24#post-15943351

While I like the adapter in many ways, the buttons are so bad, that I doubt I'll stick with it. That leads me to the question:
Are the Sennheiser MTW2 with the new high end sound tuning the best to get as an Android user (needs aptX)?
And do those have multi-pair?


----------



## myltz400 (Oct 28, 2020)

Really frustrated with the Jabra 85t s.  On paper they blow away the 75s, larger driver, hybrid mics, wireless charging,etc.  To my layman ears I just can’t see it.  It’s like everything they did has a drawback.  For example the oval shape is uncomfortable, they lack the balance and pitch adjustability option for ANC, the case is larger for chi charging, they pop and crackle between mode changes.  It’s like they are half baked, future updates might help the later.  I can look past all that if the sound just blew me away but it doesn’t.  I only perceive a slightly wider soundstage and a little more detail. I just can’t  justify the cost. 
Anyone else feel this way?


----------



## gdv brisbane

What HiFi have just published a five star review of the Bose QC earbuds. There seems to have been a mixed response to the QC from owners on this forum so I'm still on the fence. https://www.whathifi.com/reviews/bose-quietcomfort-earbuds


----------



## Sam L

SilverEars said:


> I won't bite until I see the measurements.  75t was horrendous is the reason for the hesitation.


agreed. Hoping to see some measurements from enthusiasts.


----------



## Sam L

myltz400 said:


> Really frustrated with the Jabra 85t s.  On paper they blow away the 75s, larger driver, hybrid mics, wireless charging,etc.  To my layman ears I just can’t see it.  It’s like everything they did has a drawback.  For example the oval shape is uncomfortable, they lack the balance and pitch adjustability option for ANC, the case is larger for chi charging, they pop and crackle between mode changes.  It’s like they are half baked, future updates might help the later.  I can look past all that if the sound just blew me away but it doesn’t.  I only perceive a slightly wider soundstage and a little more detail. I just can’t  justify the cost.
> Anyone else feel this way?


were you a fan of the 75t release firmware? I can see how the direction Jabra went with the 85t would not suit you if you like that initial tuning on the 75t


----------



## Sam L

Geez... the best buy website shows stock at a location walking distance from the co-working space I'm at today. I go over there and the system shows 7. After 20 mins of looking everywhere, the staff says it wasn't on the truck.  hmmm.

They have plenty of active 75t's. I'm wondering if I should just pick that up since it's at a good price and the anc seems to be pretty good with the recent firmware? Can anyone speak to comfort between the 75t and 85t? I still use the 65t and it fits me fine.


----------



## myltz400 (Oct 28, 2020)

Edit double post


----------



## myltz400 (Oct 28, 2020)

myltz400 said:


> I didn’t have them very long on the original firmware. I do like the current tuning though. I know this isn’t in the plans but ideally I wish they had just brought out a completely different line and kept two different styles. The oval port and open ear design is just too different in my opinion. It’s really strange I know but something about the over ear hanging hook of the AirPod pros combined with their oval tips works but yet the 85t doesn’t for me.


----------



## Luchyres

Sam L said:


> Geez... the best buy website shows stock at a location walking distance from the co-working space I'm at today. I go over there and the system shows 7. After 20 mins of looking everywhere, the staff says it wasn't on the truck.  hmmm.
> 
> They have plenty of active 75t's. I'm wondering if I should just pick that up since it's at a good price and the anc seems to be pretty good with the recent firmware? Can anyone speak to comfort between the 75t and 85t? I still use the 65t and it fits me fine.



I'm having a good experience with the 85ts, but they aren't winning over my N6 for me in the sound enjoyment category (just very good for calls/multipoint/my work use case).
But, never having owned the Active 75ts, I think I'm going to buy them and try them out to compare, as I think I prefer the full seal approach, and would be ok with more bombastic bass even if slightly less refined. I'll try and keep ya'll posted if I reach firm conclusions.


----------



## myltz400 (Oct 28, 2020)

Sam L said:


> Geez... the best buy website shows stock at a location walking distance from the co-working space I'm at today. I go over there and the system shows 7. After 20 mins of looking everywhere, the staff says it wasn't on the truck.  hmmm.
> 
> They have plenty of active 75t's. I'm wondering if I should just pick that up since it's at a good price and the anc seems to be pretty good with the recent firmware? Can anyone speak to comfort between the 75t and 85t? I still use the 65t and it fits me fine.


Same thing happened for me, stock clerk found them on a top shelf down the headphone isle.  The Best Buy floor plan computer does not have  a location for them yet. The 85t s are not comfortable to me but I might have a different ear shape than you.


----------



## hifi80sman

SilverEars said:


> I won't bite until I see the measurements.  75t was horrendous is the reason for the hesitation.


Looking at the 75t and 85t side by side on display at Best Buy, the 85t is definitely larger and I could see how there could be fit issues, especially if the stem is too short.


----------



## hifi80sman

Sam L said:


> Geez... the best buy website shows stock at a location walking distance from the co-working space I'm at today. I go over there and the system shows 7. After 20 mins of looking everywhere, the staff says it wasn't on the truck.  hmmm.
> 
> They have plenty of active 75t's. I'm wondering if I should just pick that up since it's at a good price and the anc seems to be pretty good with the recent firmware? Can anyone speak to comfort between the 75t and 85t? I still use the 65t and it fits me fine.


The Active 75t is on sale at Best Buy for $139, while the over-ear 85h is on sale for $149.  I'm seriously considering one of those, just not sure which one yet!


----------



## SilverEars (Oct 28, 2020)

hifi80sman said:


> Looking at the 75t and 85t side by side on display at Best Buy, the 85t is definitely larger and I could see how there could be fit issues, especially if the stem is too short.


lol, please post the exact measurements.  Did you use a micrometer?  If not, not accurate enough! (I'm sure it was a joke, yall know what measurements I'm referring to.)


----------



## erockg (Oct 28, 2020)

hifi80sman said:


> Looking at the 75t and 85t side by side on display at Best Buy, the 85t is definitely larger and I could see how there could be fit issues, especially if the stem is too short.


I just picked the 85T up today.  They actually fit me better than the 75T and I do prefer the new tips.  Bass is not as pronounced as they are on the 75T which I very much prefer.  ANC is about on par with my MTW2 at my house.

Here are a few pics alongside my APP with a Nomad case.


----------



## dj24

Here's the craziest thing.  I had the regular 75t for a while there and had a chance to audition a friend's active 75t at a certain point as well.  Even though I found the regular 75t bass completely bloated and overwhelming, the active 75t's bass was less forward and controlled.  Now I didn't have the active for very long to do a true a-b comparison but maybe others who might have checked out both can chime in.  In addition to this, I think quality control is a huge issue with the Jabras as well where one might have to go through a few to find the perfect set..


----------



## AudioNoob

Earfun Air Pros have a surprisingly large soundstage when used with third party tips that seal well (Sedna Earfit Lites currently). The noise cancellation is not great, it's definitely worse than Apollos, mostly reducing the lower frequencies / droning even when dealing with constant noise. I haven't found a super comfortable position, the housing keeps touching my ear at some point and causing discomfort after 30 mins or so.

Other than that, the sounds is pretty alright, it's a bit of a W, with a mild bass boost (more so with ANC on) but good detail retrieval, and as mentioned above, the greatest soundstage of the TWSs I have tried so far. It keeps a good pace with music and despite having accelerometer based gestures, seem to work alright. I haven't tried taking a call with them but recordings seemed fine.


----------



## AudioNoob

dj24 said:


> Here's the craziest thing.  I had the regular 75t for a while there and had a chance to audition a friend's active 75t at a certain point as well.  Even though I found the regular 75t bass completely bloated and overwhelming, the active 75t's bass was less forward and controlled.  Now I didn't have the active for very long to do a true a-b comparison but maybe others who might have checked out both can chime in.  In addition to this, I think quality control is a huge issue with the Jabras as well where one might have to go through a few to find the perfect set..


Firmware updates changed the sound over time.


----------



## alchemical

BigZ12 said:


> Has everyone in here sold their MTW2s?
> It's strange that so few are talking about the new app setting; "High-End Sound Tuning".
> I am in awe! With a couple of extra db's in the mids/high with the EQ, they are sensational by my taste.


Agreed! I’d sold my original MTW2s some time ago, but after seeing the Anniversary Edition released and mention of this high-end tuning, I decided to repurchase. So glad I did, the new tuning is fantastic - they sound spectacular.


----------



## Kalli

erockg said:


> I just picked the 85T up today.  They actually fit me better than the 75T and I do prefer the new tips.  Bass is not as pronounced as they are on the 75T which I very much prefer.  ANC is about on par with my MTW2 at my house.
> 
> Here are a few pics alongside my APP with a Nomad case.


Nice to hear, they fit you better.
Any chance you can do a fit and sound comparison on the MTW2 vs the Jabras?



alchemical said:


> Agreed! I’d sold my original MTW2s some time ago, but after seeing the Anniversary Edition released and mention of this high-end tuning, I decided to repurchase. So glad I did, the new tuning is fantastic - they sound spectacular.


Also ordered the MTW2. Do you have any experience with the M&D MW07 Plus and/or the B&O Beoplay E8 3.0? Mainly about fit and sound.


----------



## alchemical

Kalli said:


> Also ordered the MTW2. Do you have any experience with the M&D MW07 Plus and/or the B&O Beoplay E8 3.0? Mainly about fit and sound.


I don’t I’m afraid. Hope you enjoy the MTW2s, looking forward to your thoughts.


----------



## Antenne

AudioNoob said:


> Earfun Air Pros have a surprisingly large soundstage when used with third party tips that seal well (Sedna Earfit Lites currently).


Do you use the short version (blue core) or the normal one? Do they fit in the case with third party tips and charge well?
With the Earfun Air (without the Pro) I had the problem that the fit in the ear wasn't that good and all the other tips I've tried don't fit the charging case.


----------



## Luchyres (Oct 29, 2020)

Luchyres said:


> I'm having a good experience with the 85ts, but they aren't winning over my N6 for me in the sound enjoyment category (just very good for calls/multipoint/my work use case).
> But, never having owned the Active 75ts, I think I'm going to buy them and try them out to compare, as I think I prefer the full seal approach, and would be ok with more bombastic bass even if slightly less refined. I'll try and keep ya'll posted if I reach firm conclusions.





hifi80sman said:


> The Active 75t is on sale at Best Buy for $139, while the over-ear 85h is on sale for $149.  I'm seriously considering one of those, just not sure which one yet!



So, in a quick gut comparison, I bought the Active 75t and A/B'ed them over 20 mins in the BestBuy parking lot. (Got them on sale!  

After updating the Active 75t firmware, calling my mom (my fav test subject) and listening to music/playing with the EQ - I came to the conclusion that I vastly prefer the fully sealing 75T immersive feeling than the semi-open 85t. Given the multipoint is there, the ANC and hearthrough (a much better way to introduce outside/ambient noise than the lack of isolation imho), I very quickly realized that even though neither of these are the endgame for me in SQ, I enjoy the bass delivery of the fully sealed 75T more, particularly for bass rumble and extension (after firmware update). The waterproof/exercisability is an added plus.

So, for me, the 75T won very quickly. I didn't do a lot of audio comparison regarding range, separation, detail etc, but the 75T were immediately more 'fun' and immersive for me with the bass, both things I look for esp if I will use them for exercise. Plus, smaller case! Smaller housing. Deeper seal.

If you want a song to compare bass extension, I quite like using the beat of this song to compare: 
I am well aware this is not gonna be most of your cup of tea and make no claims that this is the best produced track ever - lol - no need to tell me 

So I walked in and returned by 5 day old 85T, pocketed the $90 difference and haven't looked back at all. I agree that the 85T should not be viewed as a successor to the 75T but a separate style product. (Not sealing, is HUGE, in my experience, and I don't mean the tips, I mean the pass-through port on the 85T. (I ended up finding the smallest tips went the furthest in my ear but not having that passive isolation keeps me from being fully immersed).

Just my 2c obviously, but those of you on the fence bass-wise, I say get the Active 75T and save some $$$.


----------



## Sam L

Luchyres said:


> So, in a quick gut comparison, I bought the Active 75t and A/B'ed them over 20 mins in the BestBuy parking lot. (Got them on sale!
> 
> After updating the Active 75t firmware, calling my mom (my fav test subject) and listening to music/playing with the EQ - I came to the conclusion that I vastly prefer the fully sealing 75T immersive feeling than the semi-open 85t. Given the multipoint is there, the ANC and hearthrough (a much better way to introduce outside/ambient noise than the lack of isolation imho), I very quickly realized that even though neither of these are the endgame for me in SQ, I enjoy the bass delivery of the fully sealed 75T more, particularly for bass rumble and extension (after firmware update). The waterproof/exercisability is an added plus.
> 
> ...



hmm... thx for the comparison. Can a seal be achieved with the 85t with 3rd party tips? is there room in the case?


----------



## GrandNagus50

I am going to jump into this thread just to share that I do own a couple of bluetooth IEM's (the better of them is the Sony wf-1000xm3), and the sound quality is ok but I don't like that I cannot get the volume/loudness I want for some kinds of music. I know really loud music is bad for my hearing, but I seem to want a bit more than I get using these with my iPhone or my A & K SR15. I end up using the wireless setup for the gym where I listen to audiobooks, mostly. But for listening to music, especially the electronica I have been into lately, I seem to go back to wired. 

Is there a way to pump up the volume for bluetooth IEM's of which I am unaware? Not hugely, just a bit. I don't have any volume limiters in effect.


----------



## Luchyres

Sam L said:


> hmm... thx for the comparison. Can a seal be achieved with the 85t with 3rd party tips? is there room in the case?


I believe (internet correct me if I’m mistaken), but the 85t venting is in the housing/interface to the tips and cannot be prevented/changed by using other tips.

I did try my spinfit tips on the 85t (from my Nuarl N6) and it made no difference. I preferred the 85t stock tips. Ymmv


----------



## sarv

Being using APPs but would like to upgrade because they don't fulfill my bass and SQ needs at the gym. but I love the ANC they provide as I still have to use them while working.
1. Appolo bold.
2. jlab air and something.
3. jabra 85t
4. wait so something new to come out?
Someone, please help me decide.


----------



## erockg

Kalli said:


> Nice to hear, they fit you better.
> Any chance you can do a fit and sound comparison on the MTW2 vs the Jabras?
> 
> 
> Also ordered the MTW2. Do you have any experience with the M&D MW07 Plus and/or the B&O Beoplay E8 3.0? Mainly about fit and sound.


I've had all the ones you mention. The MW07 has very weak ANC. They fit me poorly and hurt my ears after a while.  No app and the case is a fingerprint magnet.  Sound is great though.  I had the B&O E8 and the Sport version.  Loved the sound on both, pretty much the same.  Preferred the fit on the sport version and loved the case.  Returned them because the fit is tight, but no ANC and they're quite pricey for what you get.  Right now, my go-to are the MTW2, Jabra 85T and then my APP for mostly calls and late night tv viewing while the family sleeps.  I would say if you could get a deal on the Sennies, get them over the Jabra.  Since Sennheiser added high-end sound tuning on the MTW2, the sound is wonderful.  They both have similar features (Jabra has Qi charging), but the MTW2 have the edge on sound.  Wider soundstage and better instrument separation.  All that said, fit on the Jabra 85T with the largest stock tips seems to be working really well for me with zero fatigue.  I don't feel them in my ears like the MTW2.  SO, to answer your question simply, fit = Jabra.  Sound = Sennies.  But it's all subjective.  Buy both off Amazon and try them out and see for yourself.  Amazon has a great return policy.


----------



## Luchyres

sarv said:


> Being using APPs but would like to upgrade because they don't fulfill my bass and SQ needs at the gym. but I love the ANC they provide as I still have to use them while working.
> 1. Appolo bold.
> 2. jlab air and something.
> 3. jabra 85t
> ...


Given my recent experience and your gym use, get the Jabra 75t active while they’re on sale, I’d say.

nuarl N6 mini are also appealing to me, but I haven’t tried them and heard eq is necessary (and it doesn’t have an app iirc)


----------



## rhsauer

Sam L said:


> hmm... thx for the comparison. Can a seal be achieved with the 85t with 3rd party tips? is there room in the case?


Third party tips are problematic with the 85t's because of the very large oval stem.  Also, the provided tips have a mesh inside that, I assume, is intended to keep earwax and dirt out of the earphones.  Third party tips won't have that.

What I did was follow these instructions:  https://www.imore.com/diy-make-your-own-moldable-ear-buds-cheap.  I decided to start with Blu-tack (which I had handy) rather than Sugru, because I thought Blu-tack would be more easily removable in case I ultimately decide to return or sell the earphones.  With Blu-tack added under the provided large size tips, as described in the article (took about 3 minutes total), the fit and isolation (and comfort) is much improved.  YMMV, of course.


----------



## Kalli

erockg said:


> I've had all the ones you mention. The MW07 has very weak ANC. They fit me poorly and hurt my ears after a while.  No app and the case is a fingerprint magnet.  Sound is great though.  I had the B&O E8 and the Sport version.  Loved the sound on both, pretty much the same.  Preferred the fit on the sport version and loved the case.  Returned them because the fit is tight, but no ANC and they're quite pricey for what you get.  Right now, my go-to are the MTW2, Jabra 85T and then my APP for mostly calls and late night tv viewing while the family sleeps.  I would say if you could get a deal on the Sennies, get them over the Jabra.  Since Sennheiser added high-end sound tuning on the MTW2, the sound is wonderful.  They both have similar features (Jabra has Qi charging), but the MTW2 have the edge on sound.  Wider soundstage and better instrument separation.  All that said, fit on the Jabra 85T with the largest stock tips seems to be working really well for me with zero fatigue.  I don't feel them in my ears like the MTW2.  SO, to answer your question simply, fit = Jabra.  Sound = Sennies.  But it's all subjective.  Buy both off Amazon and try them out and see for yourself.  Amazon has a great return policy.


Thanks a lot. Yes, the MTW2 should arrive tomorrow. Android and AAC is somehow annoying, that's why I didn't think of the 85T. I just hope the MTW2 fit my ears. Should be fine then.


----------



## Sam L (Oct 29, 2020)

erockg said:


> I've had all the ones you mention. The MW07 has very weak ANC. They fit me poorly and hurt my ears after a while.  No app and the case is a fingerprint magnet.  Sound is great though.  I had the B&O E8 and the Sport version.  Loved the sound on both, pretty much the same.  Preferred the fit on the sport version and loved the case.  Returned them because the fit is tight, but no ANC and they're quite pricey for what you get.  Right now, my go-to are the MTW2, Jabra 85T and then my APP for mostly calls and late night tv viewing while the family sleeps.  I would say if you could get a deal on the Sennies, get them over the Jabra.  Since Sennheiser added high-end sound tuning on the MTW2, the sound is wonderful.  They both have similar features (Jabra has Qi charging), but the MTW2 have the edge on sound.  Wider soundstage and better instrument separation.  All that said, fit on the Jabra 85T with the largest stock tips seems to be working really well for me with zero fatigue.  I don't feel them in my ears like the MTW2.  SO, to answer your question simply, fit = Jabra.  Sound = Sennies.  But it's all subjective.  Buy both off Amazon and try them out and see for yourself.  Amazon has a great return policy.


Thx for sharing your observations. I'm going to go for the jabra 85t to replace my stolen APP's, the multipoint is just too good to pass up.

The other thing I want to highlight is the role in dsp in sound. I always found it interesting that many (most?) audiophiles shy away from experimenting with dsp to mod and improve sound. I've been actively experimenting with earbuds, heavily changing their FR quite substantially in some cases, with good results. I'm glad to see sennheiser add their high-end option via software. I think this is the future.


----------



## go0gle

The UE Fits look interesting in terms of form factor.. I like what I see .


----------



## Sam L

Picked up the Jabra 85t and handled some calls and work at my laptop and phone. Man, I missed multipoint, especially in the covid era. The ability to seamlessly connect to two devices is so convenient. 

Comfort is excellent. Easily as comfortable as my former APP's (and actually maybe a tad more comfortable for my ears.) I skipped the 75t, so I don't have a reference point with what changed but the SQ is very much refined and matured since the 65t. I significant upgrade from their inaugural TWS. 

The mic is also easily on par with the APP call quality. I could AB test with my wife's APPs but I don't think I'll go through the hassle because they are really quite good with calls.


----------



## Highfiver (Oct 29, 2020)

It’s day four with my 85t’s, and I gotta say, despite one major issue for me, I love them. I find the sound to be a big upgrade from the 75t’s, which I’m a huge fan of. I feel like the 85t’s have a much wider sound stage and I’m able to pick up on minor details in songs I’ve never really noticed before. My biggest gripe is the oval tips, both the shape and the material they’re made of. They’re too firm/stiff for my liking. But then again, I’m not really used to oval tips in general except for the AirPod Pro’s but I’ve never had an issue with them. I’m wondering if the oval shaped tips for the Jabra Evolve series 45/65/75 (aftermarket tips link: https://misodiko.com/collections/ea...ement-soft-comfort-ear-buds-gels-tips-3-pairs) would possibly fit the 85t’s and perhaps feel better in my ears. Currently, I’m using the medium sized oval stock tips on the 85t’s but they irritate my ears after wearing them for a bit and/or after putting them in my ears and removing them. I’m not even sure as to what the proper technique is for inserting the 85t’s in your ears because of the oval tip design (e.g., do you insert and twist them backwards like the 65t’s and 75t’s?, how deep in your ear canals should they go?, etc). I’ve tried the large and small oval tips too. With the small tips, I can’t get a good seal even after really pushing them deep into my ears. With the largest tips, they won’t even go deep into my ears and I don’t feel like the earbuds are secure in my ears once I have them on. I’ve tried all the “normal/round” third party tips I have in my “stockpile” and most of them will fit the 85t’s with some finessing. However, they either don’t secure the earbuds in my ears and/or they sound terrible. The ONLY tips I’ve found that are perhaps better than the stock oval ones, are Spinfit CP100’s. I think I may reach out to Jabra about seeing if the oval shaped Evolve series tips I mentioned above will fit the 85t’s. If anyone has any suggestions/tips as to how they’re getting a good fit/seal with the stock oval tips (or even the best way to insert them), I’d love to hear them.


----------



## chinmie

Highfiver said:


> The ONLY tips I’ve found that are perhaps better than the stock oval ones, are Spinfit CP100’s



can the 85t still fit and close the case to charge while using 3rd party regular eartips like the CP100?


----------



## clerkpalmer

alchemical said:


> Agreed! I’d sold my original MTW2s some time ago, but after seeing the Anniversary Edition released and mention of this high-end tuning, I decided to repurchase. So glad I did, the new tuning is fantastic - they sound spectacular.


Same here. Second set came today. They really do sound exciting. And the new tuning mode directly addresses my issues with them. It tightens up the muddy bass and adds some sparkle. Still a warm sound signature but it moves the needle in the direction of clarity and balance. It is a slight but perceptible change. I was listening to them side by side with the bose and it's really not even close sq wise and I'm a fan of the bose.


----------



## erockg

Highfiver said:


> It’s day four with my 85t’s, and I gotta say, despite one major issue for me, I love them. I find the sound to be a big upgrade from the 75t’s, which I’m a huge fan of. I feel like the 85t’s have a much wider sound stage and I’m able to pick up on minor details in songs I’ve never really noticed before. My biggest gripe is the oval tips, both the shape and the material they’re made of. They’re too firm/stiff for my liking. But then again, I’m not really used to oval tips in general except for the AirPod Pro’s but I’ve never had an issue with them. I’m wondering if the oval shaped tips for the Jabra Evolve series 45/65/75 (aftermarket tips link: https://misodiko.com/collections/ea...ement-soft-comfort-ear-buds-gels-tips-3-pairs) would possibly fit the 85t’s and perhaps feel better in my ears. Currently, I’m using the medium sized oval stock tips on the 85t’s but they irritate my ears after wearing them for a bit and/or after putting them in my ears and removing them. I’m not even sure as to what the proper technique is for inserting the 85t’s in your ears because of the oval tip design (e.g., do you insert and twist them backwards like the 65t’s and 75t’s?, how deep in your ear canals should they go?, etc). I’ve tried the large and small oval tips too. With the small tips, I can’t get a good seal even after really pushing them deep into my ears. With the largest tips, they won’t even go deep into my ears and I don’t feel like the earbuds are secure in my ears once I have them on. I’ve tried all the “normal/round” third party tips I have in my “stockpile” and most of them will fit the 85t’s with some finessing. However, they either don’t secure the earbuds in my ears and/or they sound terrible. The ONLY tips I’ve found that are perhaps better than the stock oval ones, are Spinfit CP100’s. I think I may reach out to Jabra about seeing if the oval shaped Evolve series tips I mentioned above will fit the 85t’s. If anyone has any suggestions/tips as to how they’re getting a good fit/seal with the stock oval tips (or even the best way to insert them), I’d love to hear them.


I'm having great luck with the large OEM tips and today I added the foam from some Symbio tips underneath to experiment.  Works perfectly.


----------



## Laethageal

Last week, I returned my L2P to Soundcore for investigation due to some hiss/buzz issue in some high pitched female vocals. I could easily have returned them to Amazon but it would not have helped them find what is the problem. I also need some TWS for work and they have received my return 8 days ago yet haven't heard from them so I went and purchase another thinking I could always return the replacement when I receive it.

Somehow, this new pair will not EQ with HearId as the right bud always end up with messed up result at the 6.4Khz range. 

Decided to try some cheap Tranya T10 for the fun of it and should receive them in a week before I can A/B them and put some impressions.


----------



## Caipirina

gdv brisbane said:


> What HiFi have just published a five star review of the Bose QC earbuds. There seems to have been a mixed response to the QC from owners on this forum so I'm still on the fence. https://www.whathifi.com/reviews/bose-quietcomfort-earbuds


i know that some day, eventually, i will get those ... just because i am a Bose / ANC fan and even though in know they would be unusable for work out ... but i am also starting to salivate over the 85Ts 's multipoint, that sounds something Bose should have implemented ... 
Alas, I have not had a chance to get ANYTHING new in 2 months! Even Aliexpress has become utterly useless, only offering super secure (and expensive) shipping options to my location now ... so, I have to wait until I get off this island again and who knows when that will be ... xmas trip is NOT happening ... maaaayyyyybe by spring break we can travel again? Who knows ...


----------



## amature101

Any news of black friday deal for this year?


----------



## AudioNoob

Antenne said:


> Do you use the short version (blue core) or the normal one? Do they fit in the case with third party tips and charge well?
> With the Earfun Air (without the Pro) I had the problem that the fit in the ear wasn't that good and all the other tips I've tried don't fit the charging case.


Blue core, but I push them all the way down on the stem rather than having them at the very tip so that they match the insertion depth of the originals, does that make sense? I think Final E tips would work well if you trim the bore, but I haven't tried that.


----------



## Caipirina

amature101 said:


> Any news of black friday deal for this year?


Wow ... I bet not even a deadly pandemic can stop Black Friday this year ...  can't wait to see the footage of people doing the opposite of social distancing to get that flat screen TV


----------



## Caipirina

Apparently those 'lucky' Americans are getting a blue special edition GBeans for BF with 30$ off ...


----------



## BigZ12 (Oct 30, 2020)

Lypertek Tevi app back on Apple App Store with a new version, 1.3.6 (fix issues).


----------



## howdy

BigZ12 said:


> Lypertek Tevi app back on Apple App Store with a new version, 1.3.6 (fix issues).


There is one for Android to! Now I'll have to try this out today. I was hoping to just do tip rolling today with the 85t.


----------



## logiatype

BigZ12 said:


> Lypertek Tevi app back on Apple App Store with a new version, 1.3.6 (fix issues).


Can you test something for me? Is there a difference between the flat custom EQ and the Signature sound?


----------



## BigZ12

logiatype said:


> Can you test something for me? Is there a difference between the flat custom EQ and the Signature sound?


I don't think so. Have switched between them several times now, and I can't hear any difference.


----------



## howdy

howdy said:


> There is one for Android to! Now I'll have to try this out today. I was hoping to just do tip rolling today with the 85t.


I'm trying it now and it won't open, keeps crashing.


----------



## rhsauer

Highfiver said:


> It’s day four with my 85t’s, and I gotta say, despite one major issue for me, I love them. I find the sound to be a big upgrade from the 75t’s, which I’m a huge fan of. I feel like the 85t’s have a much wider sound stage and I’m able to pick up on minor details in songs I’ve never really noticed before. My biggest gripe is the oval tips, both the shape and the material they’re made of. They’re too firm/stiff for my liking. But then again, I’m not really used to oval tips in general except for the AirPod Pro’s but I’ve never had an issue with them. I’m wondering if the oval shaped tips for the Jabra Evolve series 45/65/75 (aftermarket tips link: https://misodiko.com/collections/ea...ement-soft-comfort-ear-buds-gels-tips-3-pairs) would possibly fit the 85t’s and perhaps feel better in my ears. Currently, I’m using the medium sized oval stock tips on the 85t’s but they irritate my ears after wearing them for a bit and/or after putting them in my ears and removing them. I’m not even sure as to what the proper technique is for inserting the 85t’s in your ears because of the oval tip design (e.g., do you insert and twist them backwards like the 65t’s and 75t’s?, how deep in your ear canals should they go?, etc). I’ve tried the large and small oval tips too. With the small tips, I can’t get a good seal even after really pushing them deep into my ears. With the largest tips, they won’t even go deep into my ears and I don’t feel like the earbuds are secure in my ears once I have them on. I’ve tried all the “normal/round” third party tips I have in my “stockpile” and most of them will fit the 85t’s with some finessing. However, they either don’t secure the earbuds in my ears and/or they sound terrible. The ONLY tips I’ve found that are perhaps better than the stock oval ones, are Spinfit CP100’s. I think I may reach out to Jabra about seeing if the oval shaped Evolve series tips I mentioned above will fit the 85t’s. If anyone has any suggestions/tips as to how they’re getting a good fit/seal with the stock oval tips (or even the best way to insert them), I’d love to hear them.


I've also struggled getting a good, comfortable fit with the 85t's.  It helps, I think, if you don't push them in too far.  I think when they're pushed in too far, because the stems are so short the body of the earphone (not just the tip) presses against the interior of your ear and, eventually, gets uncomfortable.  I'm been wearing them for an hour now and I've tried not to push them in far at all and so far, so good -- and they sound great, with terrific bass.  Having said all of that, I don't think it would be a bad idea if Jabra were to release a few additional tip options -- or at least an xl tip.


----------



## webvan (Nov 1, 2020)

85t review here  with comparisons with the 75t and 65t. He says that the ANC gives similar results but without the "plugged" feeling on the 85t. He does say that the ANC isn't as good as on the QC Earbuds which is a bit of a concern because I don't find it that great. Well at least in so far that the overall isolation isn't as good with the 85t as with the Amazon Echo Buds.


----------



## howdy

rhsauer said:


> I've also struggled getting a good, comfortable fit with the 85t's.  It helps, I think, if you don't push them in too far.  I think when they're pushed in too far, because the stems are so short the body of the earphone (not just the tip) presses against the interior of your ear and, eventually, gets uncomfortable.  I'm been wearing them for an hour now and I've tried not to push them in far at all and so far, so good -- and they sound great, with terrific bass.  Having said all of that, I don't think it would be a bad idea if Jabra were to release a few additional tip options -- or at least an xl tip.


I messaged them and said the exact same thing. I first asked them if they plan to release a XL tip and they said no. I then said if you want to save a lot of returns you need to make a XL and possibly more tip options, he then said he would bring it up. We'll see how far that goes. I'm sure Spinfits will take advantage of this soon and hopefully release some soon.


----------



## TK33

Caipirina said:


> Apparently those 'lucky' Americans are getting a blue special edition GBeans for BF with 30$ off ...



It's already available at Best Buy since yesterday (at least that is when I saw it).  All colors are on sale for $140 right now.


----------



## VZWDJ

Here is my Lypertek Tevi Review: 
They






 are one of the best values in TWS. The overall package
is solid with great sound stage and premium design.

Design:

Case – While not the smallest charging case, it gives you a quality
feel…cloth lined and feels great in the hand. They have a claimed
70hr. battery life…10 hrs. from the buds and 6x charge from the case.
I have not done a scientific test, but have found the battery life to
be solid and never had an issue.

Earbuds – They have a solid premium feel to them and are comfortable
in the ear. They are lightweight and come with 4 tip sizes to fit all
ears. They do protrude out slightly more than I would have liked, but
nothing too crazy.

Sound – They have 6mm graphene drivers and support SBC, AAC and aptX
codecs. The sound is mostly natural and well-balanced. They do not
exaggerate things and has a solid overall soundstage.

Connection – Solid connection with Bluetooth 5.0. I have not had any
issues and pairs very quickly once taken out of the case.

The Tevi’s offer a little of everything and a very reasonable price
and you cannot go wrong with them.


----------



## hifi80sman

howdy said:


> I messaged them and said the exact same thing. I first asked them if they plan to release a XL tip and they said no. I then said if you want to save a lot of returns you need to make a XL and possibly more tip options, he then said he would bring it up. We'll see how far that goes. I'm sure Spinfits will take advantage of this soon and hopefully release some soon.


The MTW2 are $249 now, which is only $20 more than the 85t, so I'm seriously thinking of going in that direction instead.

The new JLab ANC earbuds are also on sale for $49.  I actually enjoyed their non-ANC version, which was fun sounding and seemed to "just work".  Aside from ANC, the new model has wireless charging.

https://www.bestbuy.com/site/jlab-a...ireless-earbuds-black/6426503.p?skuId=6426503


----------



## regancipher

Been testing the omthing air free these last few days, wow what a bargain! Nothing special but a very clear microphone for budget buds


----------



## howdy

hifi80sman said:


> The MTW2 are $249 now, which is only $20 more than the 85t, so I'm seriously thinking of going in that direction instead.
> 
> The new JLab ANC earbuds are also on sale for $49.  I actually enjoyed their non-ANC version, which was fun sounding and seemed to "just work".  Aside from ANC, the new model has wireless charging.
> 
> https://www.bestbuy.com/site/jlab-a...ireless-earbuds-black/6426503.p?skuId=6426503


Are you really enjoying the Bose? Still considering those. Was there a big difference in sound between the sport and non-sport models.
I've always enjoyed Bose house sound.


----------



## hifi80sman

howdy said:


> Are you really enjoying the Bose? Still considering those. Was there a big difference in sound between the sport and non-sport models.
> I've always enjoyed Bose house sound.


I am enjoying them.  Typical Bose house sound that you can listen to for hours on end with no fatigue.  I honestly think the QC earbuds sound a little better than the Sport.  Same signature, but the semi-open nature does invite noise pollution, which degrades my perception of the overall sound.  Definitely a winner, sans the lack of full touch controls.  I use them mostly while working, so my phone is nearby if I need to reverse tracks or adjust volume.  I can always use Siri to do that as well, if need be.  I recommend them if cost is not prohibitive.


----------



## AudioNoob

Nobody bit the bullet on the jlabs right?
I agree about the Jabra tips. It is interesting to me that earphones that are so obsessively designed for user experience have such crap tips (75t) with sharp tailing edges. 85t seems a little more rounded but still, I think they would win a lot of people over if they went for the bulb profile a la Sony and Final tips.


----------



## hifi80sman

Went in for the 85t, came out with the 75t Active, JLab ANC, and $30 extra in my pocket.

For $49 (sale, regularly $99), the JLab Epic Air ANC are a great deal.  They are what you think they are; sculpted V-signature, but it's quite fun.  Sounds great paired with episodes of The Mandalorian.  Wireless charging.

Out of the box, default sound on the 75t have a bit of harshness.  Didn't mess around with the EQ yet, as I decided to update the firmware before testing out further.  They fit great and I'm confident I can EQ them to where they'll sound great (sometimes you can tell if there's hope for EQ or not).


----------



## Trebor1966 (Oct 31, 2020)

FIIL T1 Lite already out for selling in China:

https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=&sl=zh-CN&tl=en&u=http://zhongce.sina.com.cn/article/view/65268


----------



## bronco1015

It had been a while since i did a battery test of the Anbes 359. This morning i got exactly 3 hours and 21 minutes. not bad for a $30 pair of TWEs that originally had a 4 hour battery life.


----------



## AudioNoob

Depending on


hifi80sman said:


> Out of the box, default sound on the 75t have a bit of harshness.  Didn't mess around with the EQ yet, as I decided to update the firmware before testing out further.  They fit great and I'm confident I can EQ them to where they'll sound great (sometimes you can tell if there's hope for EQ or not).


Just wanted to say we are here if you need help with your addiction. Joking aside, depending on what FW they are out of the box, the stock sounds gets better with later firmwares.


----------



## howdy (Oct 31, 2020)

@hifi80sman (not sure why it didn't quote) I like the 75ts a lot! These are my daily drivers when I'm at work. I bought best buys extended warranty with it so if I break them for what ever reason they are covered.


----------



## bronco1015

initial thoughts on the JLab Epic Air Sport ANC. Haven't downloaded the app yet, but supposedly has a 10 band eq, that's awesome. These are well built and i get a good fit with stock tips and the hooks. They come with 6 pair of tips including a pair of foam tips, the charging case is not weighty but it's big. The USB-A cable is built in to the case, i really like the idea but should be a USB-C cable built in instead. Also these charge wirelessly, are rated for 15 hours without ANC and 11 with ANC, with 55 hours of charge in the case. haven't tested battery life yet. iems and case take 3.5 hrs to charge. battery in each iem is 120 MAH and case is 1,000 MAH.
controls, JLab crammed quite a few into the iems. pretty impressive really. a single tap on left or right is volume down and up respectively. press and hold for 1 second on left cycles between ANC off, "be aware" that's what JLab calls transparency mode/hear through/ambiant/environment etc and ANC. Press and hold for 1 second on right is track forward, double tap on left brings up your assistant, double tap on right is play/pause. 3 taps on either cycle between BassBoost , JLab Signature and Balanced. Though the prompt says 'valanced." lol.
For calls single tap on right to answer, press and hold for 2 seconds to reject and double tap to hang up. haven't tested for calls yet.
The ANC on these is weak at any price. i've heard better anc for cheaper, not by a huge margin, but definitely better. And the Apollo at same price has better ANC.
"be aware" There is a gradual transition from be aware to ANC, and from ANC to ANC off to a lesser degree, but when switching to be aware mode, the sound gets louder and louder then reaches it's peak after 2-3 seconds. It's kind of a louder version of the veiled Ambiant mode on the Technics AZ70 but the AZ70 is more focused. With the Epic Air Sport ANC in be aware mode, i noticed that if i was drumming on my desk etc it caused be aware mode to be canceled out and almost revert back to passive sound. That was kind of interesting, not to mention counter-intuitive. So i wonder if i got a defective pair, or if you can slightly lower the amount of the outside world you hear in the app to fix this issue.
Sound. i'm gonna mess with the eq in the app because of what i hear especially in the balanced sound. That is where bass has the best texture, mids sound the fullest and treble while exaggerated, is also the best. in bassBoost the mids are muffled, the bass isn't even good quality and it's just generally an aweful sound. the bass isn't even thumpy. It's honestly like when the mids were turned all the way down and bass all the way up on an old, factory car radio with crappy speakers. Signature sound has a similar bass, but improoved and better mids. ON balanced sound the bass has really nice texture and the mids don't sound as hollow. and i'm not just speaking generally here, all throughout the spectrom theres just a much fuller textured sound that makes the tuning of bass boost especially puzzling. Because of the empty sounding bass in BassBoost mode.
I think all things considered, if you want a pair to have for working outside or a pair you need to be able to take a beating at the gym etc, these might be a good option. They're IP66 as well, and they have a nice textured feel to each pannel that IMO lends itself to easier use for sweaty, or otherwise dirty hands.


----------



## regancipher

Very interesting day today testing out microphone quality in extreme weather conditions here in the UK.

Let's start with the model I lauded the most during the Summer

*Edifier TWS NB2:*

Wow. I really did get these wrong. Listening back to the summer recordings they sounded really good, by comparison the winter recording is atrocious.

Firstly, they are far better with ANC on. Noise suppression when not much is going on is good, sounds quite natural. As soon as the wind and traffic kick in your voice starts to sound a bit more muffled, not quite as bad as @Laethageal 's recording but I can see why his sounded the way it did - my call recording sounded much more like his than my summer call.

With ANC off - wow. They were absolutely awful. Worse than any of my budget sets and exactly like @Laethageal 's recording. Any ambient noise completely kills your voice. You don't get the loud woosh you get with some buds but it just kills everything to a muffled, muted noise. Not good.

ANC ON: 

Clarity - 6/10
Affected by the environment - 6/10
Suppression - 6/10
Naturalness - 6/10

ANC OFF: 

Clarity - 4/10
Affected by the environment - 3/10
Suppression - 4/10
Naturalness - 5/10

*Omthing Air Free:*

So I'm still in the process of reviewing these, the mic indoors is fantastic but outdoors it has virtually no suppression. Traffic completely overpowers your voice, wind fares slightly better. When there's no ambient sound your voice is extremely natural and clear. Overall pretty impressed

Clarity - 8/10
Affected by the environment - 3/10
Suppression - 3/10
Naturalness - 8/10

*Alien Secret QCC010:*

Great budget buds, not renowned for their microphone quality. No major surprises here, while your voice sounds clear at times it's quite robotic. Wind and traffic not only overpowers it, but the suppression has a similar affect to the Edifier with ANC off, it suppresses your voice and not much else. Still, I didn't buy them for the mic!

Clarity - 5.5/10
Affected by the environment - 3/10
Suppression - 3/10
Naturalness - 5/10

*1More Colorbuds:*

Still reviewing these too. Sound quality on these is really nice and refined but they don't fit my ears well. Clarity is surprisingly good for in ears, and even with traffic you could still hear my voice very clearly and very loud too, peaking at times. The sound is a touch robotic compared to the omthing, but better than most.

Clarity - 7/10
Affected by the environment - 6/10
Suppression - 6.5/10
Naturalness - 6.5/10

*Boltune BT-BH024:*

Never cease to amaze me. For £21 or whatever they were, the mic is surprisingly very good. Clarity is decent but a little inconsistent - moving them around changed the dynamics, there is virtually no high end suppression despite claiming CVC8.0 so rather than traffic flying past instead you hear the puddles splashing where the traffic flew past. These were tested on a main open road with probably the worst conditions and yet they performed better than some of the more expensive buds. Voice sounded much more natural than some of the others.

Clarity - 8/10
Affected by the environment - 6/10
Suppression - 6/10
Naturalness - 7/10

*FIIL T1 Pro:*

Love these earbuds and their microphone actually performs better outdoors than I expected. MAF GUAM or whatever it is sounded very clear, a little robotic but your voice separates from the wind and traffic well. Without MAF guam your voice sounds natural but the traffic is very compressed and sounds robotic. Your voice still overcomes the conditions. With ANC on it sounds a little more robotic, still fairly natural. A skoda flew past me at around 40mph and you can't hear it. It suppresses worse than with MAF selected.

Clarity - 7/10
Affected by the environment - 7/10
Suppression - 8/10
Naturalness - 6/10

*Tronsmart Apollo Bold:*

I wasn't that impressed during the summer. At the park they over suppressed kids playing and other high frequencies and made me sound like I was talking through a sponge. Different story today - clarity and naturalness are pretty good, I was at a train station when I tested them and you couldn't really hear the train or cars going past to it did a great job suppressing, but at times you couldn't hear me through the suppression, which I expected. They performed better with ANC on, contrary to my first test during the summer.

ANC ON:

Clarity - 7/10
Affected by the environment - 8/10
Suppression - 8/10
Naturalness - 6/10

ANC OFF:

Clarity - 7/10
Affected by the environment - 7/10
Suppression - 7/10
Naturalness - 6/10

*Whizzer E3:*

Haha. I love these earbuds but my god the mic is bad. Even without any background noise I sounded a long way from the mic and very robotic. I was undercover at this point and just sounded really over suppressed and not natural. Wind and other conditions weren't obvious but still, definitely not an option for the daily commute.

Clarity - 4/10
Affected by the environment - 6/10
Suppression - 6/10
Naturalness - 4/10

Summary

Well, it surprised me. The FIIL T1 Pro and Tronsmart Apollo Bold showed their premium quality by outperforming the rest. Just behind them, the Boltune BT-BH024 never cease to amaze me. Such a bargain! The Omthing also surprised me, they aren't for those who live in rainy countries but without too much ambient noise they are natural sounding and clear. Next, the 1More Colorbuds and Edifier TWS NB2, the latter being the best I tested during the summer, struggle with the conditions a little. The former just amplifies your voice 'in the red', which is acceptable given the high quality audio. The Edifier on the other hand just over compresses everything as soon as the scene gets complex. I noticed as soon as I got to the post office to change phones, the Edifiers performed really well. This suggests overcompression.

The Alien Secret and Whizzer E3 should not be considered for commuters.

League Table from todays test:

Joint 1st - FIIL T1 Pro and Tronsmart Apollo Bold - both decent performers regardless of weather conditions
2nd - Boltune BT-BH024. Surprisingly great performers at a budget price.
3rd - 1More Omthing Airfree - Clear and natural, but fair weather performers
4th - Edifier TWS NB2 - Fair weather performers that over-suppress in complex scenes
5th - 1More Colorbuds - Overall pretty decent all-rounders but peaking your voice so it's louder than the other loud stuff is not really going to do your hearing much good

Now, bear in mind I've tried the Airpods Pro and Galaxy Buds Plus, none of them compete with either model. They are way short in fact. But they are also a fraction of the price.


----------



## jant71

These are $49.99 at Best Buy right now. https://www.bestbuy.com/site/jlab-a...ireless-earbuds-black/6426501.p?skuId=6426501

They slowly get better but wonder how good they did. You get 11 hours with ANC on and 15 hours with it off and 70 hours/50 hours total. Lower latency mode switchable and the three EQ modes both on board and an app not needed as well as not leaving any track or volume control out. Wireless charging as well and IP66 on the waterproofing. Jlab is really the only one that throws everything in at the budget level. Shame they have little competition. Maybe they could have 4 Mics each side instead of three but they throw most everything they can in there. Nice if there was that high quality version of what Jlabs does and had beamform mics as good as in Klipsch and Apple and great drivers and sound tuning in the EQs and top ANC at the $150 price point.


----------



## hifi80sman

howdy said:


> @hifi80sman (not sure why it didn't quote) I like the 75ts a lot! These are my daily drivers when I'm at work. I bought best buys extended warranty with it so if I break them for what ever reason they are covered.


Nice!  I'm definitely enjoying them so far, especially after taming the upper mids/lower treble a bit.  I was reading the official literature on the 85t and they were described as semi-open, which if paired with ANC that's lesser than Bose, didn't sound like a winning proposition for me.  I'll probably still try it for myself, but I'll wait until they are on sale.


----------



## hifi80sman (Oct 31, 2020)

bronco1015 said:


> initial thoughts on the JLab Epic Air Sport ANC. Haven't downloaded the app yet, but supposedly has a 10 band eq, that's awesome. These are well built and i get a good fit with stock tips and the hooks. They come with 6 pair of tips including a pair of foam tips, the charging case is not weighty but it's big. The USB-A cable is built in to the case, i really like the idea but should be a USB-C cable built in instead. Also these charge wirelessly, are rated for 15 hours without ANC and 11 with ANC, with 55 hours of charge in the case. haven't tested battery life yet. iems and case take 3.5 hrs to charge. battery in each iem is 120 MAH and case is 1,000 MAH.
> controls, JLab crammed quite a few into the iems. pretty impressive really. a single tap on left or right is volume down and up respectively. press and hold for 1 second on left cycles between ANC off, "be aware" that's what JLab calls transparency mode/hear through/ambiant/environment etc and ANC. Press and hold for 1 second on right is track forward, double tap on left brings up your assistant, double tap on right is play/pause. 3 taps on either cycle between BassBoost , JLab Signature and Balanced. Though the prompt says 'valanced." lol.
> For calls single tap on right to answer, press and hold for 2 seconds to reject and double tap to hang up. haven't tested for calls yet.
> The ANC on these is weak at any price. i've heard better anc for cheaper, not by a huge margin, but definitely better. And the Apollo at same price has better ANC.
> ...


I agree the Bass Boost mode is completely useless.  I would definitely recommend downloading the app, updating the firmware, and playing around with the 10-band EQ.  ANC is serviceable, especially since it's a closed design.  The ambient mode is definitely amplified, so it's not near-natural like some of the higher end stuff (Bose, etc.).  Still useful here and there, but not something I would leave on.

Overall, they are well-built with a nice case, good assortment of fit options, sound fun, tons of features, full touch controls, well designed app, and have good drivers to where you can play around with the sound.  They're not world-beaters, but they'd make a wonderful gift for that special someone (like your brother in law)!

EDIT:  Just saw that you can adjust the ambient mode sensitivity through the app.  This may be good in preventing "overload" of the mics whilst drumming.


----------



## jant71

Saw the new JBL Club Pro + are also out at Best Buy. Anyone taking a flyer?? One video so far...

...you get a look at them and the app but no real SQ or ANC evaluation as of yet.


----------



## bronco1015

hifi80sman said:


> I agree the Bass Boost mode is completely useless.  I would definitely recommend downloading the app, updating the firmware, and playing around with the 10-band EQ.  ANC is serviceable, especially since it's a closed design.  The ambient mode is definitely amplified, so it's not near-natural like some of the higher end stuff (Bose, etc.).  Still useful here and there, but not something I would leave on.
> 
> Overall, they are well-built with a nice case, good assortment of fit options, sound fun, tons of features, full touch controls, well designed app, and have good drivers to where you can play around with the sound.  They're not world-beaters, but they'd make a wonderful gift for that special someone (like your brother in law)!
> 
> EDIT:  Just saw that you can adjust the ambient mode sensitivity through the app.  This may be good in preventing "overload" of the mics whilst drumming.


Hey thanks for the tip on the ambiant adjustment, i don't need to hear my own drumming, i just wanna subject everyone else to it haha. i'm gonna download the app right now. finally have some time to mess with them. Also between $25 gift card i got from prime day XM4 purchase and 2 other gift cards, i have $115 to spend on Amazon right now. Tempted to pick up the 75T for it's ANC and multipoint for $24. part of me thinks, wait. they might be cheaper on siber monday etc. Or something else might come up that i want.hmm..


----------



## howdy

Giving the Jabras a rest and using the XM3s today. I still just love the sound of these still, I have not used these in a couple of months.

Also, to anyone with the Tevis, has anyone got there new app to work on Android? It just crashes right away when I try and open it.


----------



## dweaver

Some day I will try a pair of the 1000XM3 but in the meantime I have to say the more I use the WF-XB700 the more I like them. They lack many of the bells and whistles other TW models such as app support and ANC but they shine where it matters which is the music.

If someone told me Sony would make a model with the letters XB in the model sound balanced I would have laughed BEFORE I bought these. I have tested and owned several XB products and none of them were balanced sounding ever. But this earphone is a very balanced product sonically speaking with a slight nod to the bass but nothing egregious and its midrange is very neutral (not overly warm) and decent treble extension as well. The sound stage and imaging is also very reasonable.

I find myself reaching for these over my L2P most days. I ordered the Status Between Pro on their Indiegogo promotion. I really hope they deliver as good as the XB700 sonically if not a bit more. Because if they do combined with their multipoint and transparent mode they will be almost everything I want in a TW. But until they arrive I will happily use the XB700.


----------



## vladzakhar

After going to BestBuy several times buying and trying new Bose QC, Jabras 75Ts and 85Ts and JBLs Club pros I decided that 75Ts are the best all rounder with best sound
and everything else, except maybe ANC and battery life. Bose is still a little better in this department. But 75T has excellent passive noise cancellation plus not bad ANC.
I love the sound. It's dynamic and alive with superb bass and treble extension. And it's on sale. You can't go wrong here. Jabra nailed it with this product.


----------



## Rob E. (Nov 1, 2020)

Just cleaning house and since I can't sell 'em, I'll give them away.... FREE to a good home with one caveat. Pay for shipping to your location - CONUS only. They're super clean and just about like new. Fwiw, white silicon tips are new unused aftermarket - but we all have our own extra tips anyway... So if you could use a spare pair of tws earbuds... PM me.

Astrotec S80 Lite Motivation


----------



## dj24

hifi80sman said:


> I agree the Bass Boost mode is completely useless......





bronco1015 said:


> Hey thanks for the tip on the ambiant adjustment....




Any chance you can check out the call quality and see how well they can handle work/ zoom calls?


----------



## Sam L

bronco1015 said:


> It had been a while since i did a battery test of the Anbes 359. This morning i got exactly 3 hours and 21 minutes. not bad for a $30 pair of TWEs that originally had a 4 hour battery life.


That was one of my sets in my backpack that was stolen.    really comfortable, great sound, just a fantastic tws for the price


----------



## AudioNoob

The one thing with the 75t is that the relay system makes the left side have a different Snr than the right. Unless you are obsessive like me you won't notice but frequency sweep makes it very audible.


----------



## Laethageal

regancipher said:


> Very interesting day today testing out microphone quality in extreme weather conditions here in the UK.
> 
> Let's start with the model I lauded the most during the Summer
> 
> ...


Interesting. Didn't think about testing the NB2 with ANC on. I might try and see how they fare if I find a few minutes, but life is pretty overwhelming atm when trying to find a new home in this crazy Covid market on top of the usual wife/kids/work/fall season maintenance of home/etc... 😉 

Meanwhile, I got a message from Tranya to test the T10 and maybe also the M10 so I'll come back with a review once I get the bud. 

I had also sent back my L2P to Soundcore for investigation due to some hiss/buzz issues with high pitched female vocals almost 2 weeks ago. Could not wait to get some back and they were supposed to take a while to get here(over 2 more weeks from what support told me) so I decided to purchase another pair I had planned to give to my boy (who simply loves) them as soon as the replacement came in. He worked very hard not to fall behind his class with 3 weeks of isolation and basically no support from his school and deserved the treat. 

Funnily, I received both the new purchase and the replacement last Wednesday. Both are the latest version and both exhibits the same buzz with some vocals I had seen in my previous pair. Thus saddens me as I honestly hoped it would be a 1 time issue since I pretty much loved their SQ and profile but I am now thorn about what to do. 

On top of this, both pair have an issue with the HearID from Soundcore software that I didn't have with my first pair. Whatever I do in the test, even if I don't hold the button for the 6.4khz range when testing the right bud, it gives me a weird custom graph that do not work going 6.4khz on right bud at the complete bottom of equalizer. 

I tested both pair 3 time, then wiped the local data on my phone, tested again, tried to test and force the result of right bud, uninstalled, retested, tried forcing again to no avail. Anyone ever had such an issue with HearId?


----------



## assassin10000

Laethageal said:


> Interesting. Didn't think about testing the NB2 with ANC on. I might try and see how they fare if I find a few minutes, but life is pretty overwhelming atm when trying to find a new home in this crazy Covid market on top of the usual wife/kids/work/fall season maintenance of home/etc... 😉
> 
> Meanwhile, I got a message from Tranya to test the T10 and maybe also the M10 so I'll come back with a review once I get the bud.
> 
> ...



Nope.

I no longer have them but I had even left & right on the HearID test.


----------



## Trebor1966

Also, to anyone with the Tevis, has anyone got there new app to work on Android? It just crashes right away when I try and open it.
[/QUOTE]

The app only works after upgrading the firmware of Tevis - newer Tevis were already shipped with new firmware.
See instruction: https://www.lypertek.com/app-beta


----------



## bronco1015

dj24 said:


> Any chance you can check out the call quality and see how well they can handle work/ zoom calls?


Unfortunately, in both zoom and regular calls, even near my phone; they are pretty muffled sounding. And 20 feet or so away from phone the words i was saying were basicly inaudible. I could still hear the person on the other end of each call however, so for meetings where you might have to be present but would call in and mute yourself while you ate lunch etc, these would probably work just fine for that. but yeah 1 star on outgoing call quality of any kind. That's the only thing bad i have to say about these though. Played with the eq in the app and man these things really open up. Great for $50-$100. The playStore app was rated pretty poorly, 2.3 stars. i had an experience with it that demonstrated why that rating might be justified. when i powered them up, they both said battery full, and showed battery full in my status bar. The app went back and forth. First saying the left was at 95% and right 35%, So wouldn't do update. Then charged them for a bit, reconnected, and both showed at 100%. Then it kept giving all kinds of readings for each iem, anywhere from 50-100%. but i managed to get the update completed in about 5-7 mins, made a couple eq profiles and setled on one i really like so far.





Sam L said:


> That was one of my sets in my backpack that was stolen.    really comfortable, great sound, just a fantastic tws for the price"
> That really sucks man. my V-Moda Forza Metalo Wireless were stolen last year at my desk.Really miss those. The Anbes 359 while an otherwise generic TWE, will always be one of those unforgettable products for me. still one of the most unique combinations for price, sq form factor etc.


----------



## chavan123168

hifi80sman said:


> The MTW2 are $249 now, which is only $20 more than the 85t, so I'm seriously thinking of going in that direction instead.
> 
> The new JLab ANC earbuds are also on sale for $49.  I actually enjoyed their non-ANC version, which was fun sounding and seemed to "just work".  Aside from ANC, the new model has wireless charging.
> 
> https://www.bestbuy.com/site/jlab-a...ireless-earbuds-black/6426503.p?skuId=6426503


Thanks for the link. Picked up the JLab(like I needed them....). Not bad for $49.


----------



## howdy

Trebor1966 said:


> Also, to anyone with the Tevis, has anyone got there new app to work on Android? It just crashes right away when I try and open it.



The app only works after upgrading the firmware of Tevis - newer Tevis were already shipped with new firmware.
See instruction: https://www.lypertek.com/app-beta
[/QUOTE]
I bought mine in April from Lypertek directly and they where considered the newer one but I'll try and update to see if that works. Thanks!


----------



## helmutcheese (Nov 1, 2020)

I made a post earlier in thread about the new SoundPeats H1, I like other thought 6 hours battery was poor etc etc.

They originally were *AFAIR* no waterproofing, 6 hour battery per charge, 35 hours with case, BT 5.0 with aptX.

Now they have been upgraded to IPX5, 10 hours battery per charge, 40 hours with case, BT 5.2 and aptX-Adaptive.

The slightly more expensive H1 Premium model has an SoundPeats made AI Voice assistant to work with phones built in voice assistant without the need to press any buttons.

I have pledged on their KickStarter page for the H1 Premiums and added an extra $1 for a hardcase.








SOUNDPEATS H1 | HOME (soundpeatsaudio.com)

SOUNDPEATS H1: Best Sounding Hybrid Dual-Driver TWS Earbuds by SOUNDPEATS Audio — Kickstarter


----------



## jant71

helmutcheese said:


> I made a post earlier in thread about the new SoundPeats H1, I like other thought 6 hours battery was poor etc etc.
> 
> They originally were *AFAIR* no waterproofing 6 hour battery per charge, 35 hours with case, BT 5.0 with aptX.
> 
> ...



 That is it for the premium? $10 gets you wake up by voice instead of touch and no other difference at all? One little feature but not sure that makes it Premium. Not worth the $10 to me unless there was more improvement. Nice to see they upped the specs on it. They should have since they got way more than enough. 10X the $12,000+ they wanted so they should offer some improvements. That is the only good thing about Kickstarter...if they way overshoot what they budgeted for they can then choose to upgrade the product since they know that more $$$ will be there for it. Still be nice if the premium had a cool color scheme or something else extra.


----------



## helmutcheese

Totally Black ideally for me for a ear/headphones, I can live with a bit of silver/grey on them.


----------



## regancipher

Caipirina said:


> i know that some day, eventually, i will get those ... just because i am a Bose / ANC fan and even though in know they would be unusable for work out ... but i am also starting to salivate over the 85Ts 's multipoint, that sounds something Bose should have implemented ...
> Alas, I have not had a chance to get ANYTHING new in 2 months! Even Aliexpress has become utterly useless, only offering super secure (and expensive) shipping options to my location now ... so, I have to wait until I get off this island again and who knows when that will be ... xmas trip is NOT happening ... maaaayyyyybe by spring break we can travel again? Who knows ...


You're not missing much. Seemingly nothing new around, been looking for something small and well fitting but other than the mifo o9, which is basically the o4 in a different colour, and the kz sa08, which I bought about a month ago and the tracking doesn't even work, not seen anything look remotely interesting. Omthing Airfree were pretty good but battery life sucks


----------



## howdy

Itching for one more, MTW2 or Bose Qc. I have MTW1 and if the Sq is not to much different than it's Bose. Don't care really about the ANC on either just sq.


----------



## Laethageal (Nov 1, 2020)

howdy said:


> Itching for one more, MTW2 or Bose Qc. I have MTW1 and if the Sq is not to much different than it's Bose. Don't care really about the ANC on either just sq.


If I had not bought 4 TWS worth in the past month for about 400$usd all inc. (damn it's getting addictive quickly) I would try myself with either the new Devialet or the UE FITS.


----------



## howdy

Laethageal said:


> If I had not bought 4 TWS worth in the past month for about 400$usd all inc. (damn it's getting addictive quickly) I would try myself with either the new Devialet or the UE FITS.


I know what you mean I just bought the Jabra 75 and 85 recently. The UE look interesting but I really like what I've seen/read about the Bose and MTW2. I still really love the sound of the MTW1 and they are super comfortable.


----------



## dj24 (Nov 1, 2020)

*TWS and VOIP Calls*

I have a question for anyone that spends a lengthy period of time on VOIP (zoom, jabber etc) calls.  Do people always complain of poor sound quality from your end?  More importantly, do you lose connection and have your calls drop randomly for no reason?    I have this issue constantly and have tried various TWS all to no avail.  I'm wondering if my Windows 10 Realtek 4.2 adapter is somehow the culprit although I don't understand since I'm not walking away and sitting and working on the computer right there.  What confuses me even more and why I don't think bluetooth is the issue is the fact that the connection is rock solid and never drops once with the same TWS sets sounding sublime when I'm listening to youtube or spotify for hours on the same computer. 

I'll have to take the time and dig into this more. Although I work at home in a completely dead quite room with no distractions, along with the constant drop outs and disconnections, clients also complain that they can't hear me well and that I always sound muffled on my cisco jabber calls when I'm on TWS.  Family zoom meetings on the same computer have the same issues as well. Switching to regular non VOIP calls on my phone with the same TWS sets is just fine both ends with no complaints.  I unfortunately can't test my jabber work calls on my smartphone even as a process of elimination as my company for security reasons doesn't allow that.  Zoom calls when testing though work great on my phone with absolutely no issues on all my TWS sets.

For now I'm tethered to my laptop with a cheap wired earbud with a mic and have no call drops or disconnections sounding great both ways.  I work on jabber 8-10 hours a day which makes my wired connection a bit hard as I take constant calls with few breaks all the time (Iam an Interpreter) while my nice TWS sets sit there just looking pretty.  My dream of enjoying working from home being mobile and untethered due to COVID hasn't worked out so well so far.

I'm starting to wonder if TWS companies don't want us utilizing their products for VOIP calls as a way to make sure we don't take take business away from their ridiculously overpriced VOIP headset market share..

Anyways my apologies for hijacking the thread.  I'm peeved enough that I'll start researching and looking into this moving forward and will share my findings. In the mean time, if anyone has faced a similar experience working from home and found a workaround please don't be shy and let us know


----------



## Darkestred

Laethageal said:


> Can I ask those of you owning the Soundcore L2P some help to check something?
> 
> I received my L2P 3 days ago and after testing, figured they where too bass heavy (which was fixed with some tuning) and also had some sort of buzzing on some particular female voice as if the tweeter was faulty. I contacted Soundcore who asked me to detail the issue in detail, which I did. They came back to me saying that I had the latest version of the product and that the issue (after having their Quality engineer check my particular issue) is some vibrato and is considered normal with all their L2P, therefor not a defect.
> 
> ...



No buzz.  Sounds clean.


----------



## bronco1015

howdy said:


> Itching for one more, MTW2 or Bose Qc. I have MTW1 and if the Sq is not to much different than it's Bose. Don't care really about the ANC on either just sq.


I like the MTW2 a lot. but honestly, even with the high end sound tuning, i still prefer my MTW1. Better highs and mids. The firmware update a while back made the ANC a lot better, but honestly if i could go back, i would have just worn out my mtw1 completely. I mean, if you have the money, and you clearly have the sickness like many of us, then by all means get it. but owning both i just wanted to share my thoughts.


----------



## Bhelpoori (Nov 2, 2020)

dj24 said:


> *TWS and VOIP Calls*
> 
> I have a question for anyone that spends a lengthy period of time on VOIP (zoom, jabber etc) calls.  Do people always complain of poor sound quality from your end?  More importantly, do you lose connection and have your calls drop randomly for no reason?    I have this issue constantly and have tried various TWS all to no avail.  I'm wondering if my Windows 10 Realtek 4.2 adapter is somehow the culprit although I don't understand since I'm not walking away and sitting and working on the computer right there.  What confuses me even more and why I don't think bluetooth is the issue is the fact that the connection is rock solid and never drops once with the same TWS sets sounding sublime when I'm listening to youtube or spotify for hours on the same computer.
> 
> ...


Whilst YouTube, VoIP and Phone calls use  different Bluetooth profiles, this seems more likely to be a wifi/bluetooth/usb interference problem from the PC since connections dropping when close by the transmitter indicates a radio problem. Do you have something connected via USB to the computer, particularly USB-C? Do you have a cordless (US) phone nearby? Is WiFi internal or on some sort of card? 

These PC problems are really hard to debug and often not easily fixable which is why quite a few vendors of Bluetooth headphones/TWS e.g Jabra with the Elites don't say they work with PCs though they often do, or provide their own Bluetooth transmitters (Jabra, Bose etc). Windows also sometimes doesn't select the right profile or their's some driver issue, which is often indicated by the transmitted sound being muffled, however, that wouldn't cause a connection drop.

Also these issues are not confined to TWS. I had an expensive, well-known, Bluetooth headphone that every 15-20 minutes would lose synchronisation/connection when on a VoIP call too.


----------



## go0gle

Darkestred said:


> No buzz.  Sounds clean.


 Same.


----------



## BigZ12

https://support.apple.com/airpods-pro-service-program-sound-issues


----------



## Kalli (Nov 2, 2020)

There are my thoughts on the MTW2, if someone is interested:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/sen...-wireless-2-mtw2.927701/page-10#post-15952590

@alchemical @howdy 

EDIT:
Any idea if the Devialet Gemini and/or UE Fits would be a worthy contender to the MTW2?
Or anything else that's worth considering?


----------



## regancipher

Reviews for this week:

1More Colorbuds
1More Mothing Airfree


----------



## Bhelpoori

Bhelpoori said:


> Whilst YouTube, VoIP and Phone calls use  different Bluetooth profiles, this seems more likely to be a wifi/bluetooth/usb interference problem from the PC since connections dropping when close by the transmitter indicates a radio problem. Do you have something connected via USB to the computer, particularly USB-C? Do you have a cordless (US) phone nearby? Is WiFi internal or on some sort of card?
> 
> These PC problems are really hard to debug and often not easily fixable which is why quite a few vendors of Bluetooth headphones/TWS e.g Jabra with the Elites don't say they work with PCs though they often do, or provide their own Bluetooth transmitters (Jabra, Bose etc). Windows also sometimes doesn't select the right profile or their's some driver issue, which is often indicated by the transmitted sound being muffled, however, that wouldn't cause a connection drop.
> 
> Also these issues are not confined to TWS. I had an expensive, well-known, Bluetooth headphone that every 15-20 minutes would lose synchronisation/connection when on a VoIP call too.


You may want to try turning power management in Windows 10 off for the Bluetooth adapter:

1. Go into "Device Manager" and select "Bluetooth."

2. Select  "Properties" for the bluetooth module. This is often but not always the first one listed.

3. In "Properties" select the "Power Management" tab and then uncheck the box next to "Turn off device to save power."


----------



## logiatype

dj24 said:


> *TWS and VOIP Calls*
> 
> I have a question for anyone that spends a lengthy period of time on VOIP (zoom, jabber etc) calls.  Do people always complain of poor sound quality from your end?  More importantly, do you lose connection and have your calls drop randomly for no reason?    I have this issue constantly and have tried various TWS all to no avail.  I'm wondering if my Windows 10 Realtek 4.2 adapter is somehow the culprit although I don't understand since I'm not walking away and sitting and working on the computer right there.  What confuses me even more and why I don't think bluetooth is the issue is the fact that the connection is rock solid and never drops once with the same TWS sets sounding sublime when I'm listening to youtube or spotify for hours on the same computer.
> 
> ...



I have several posts about this. TWS is pretty much unusable for WfH; a cheap wired earbud is far better. I've tried almost everything (different dongles including the jabra one). I decided to use dongle mics (Jaybird X4 and my ES100+IEM) for work since I need to be heard clearly.


----------



## Kalli

Anyone here with a nice EQ setting for classical music on the Sennheiser MTW2?


----------



## TK33

dj24 said:


> *TWS and VOIP Calls*
> 
> I have a question for anyone that spends a lengthy period of time on VOIP (zoom, jabber etc) calls.  Do people always complain of poor sound quality from your end?  More importantly, do you lose connection and have your calls drop randomly for no reason?    I have this issue constantly and have tried various TWS all to no avail.  I'm wondering if my Windows 10 Realtek 4.2 adapter is somehow the culprit although I don't understand since I'm not walking away and sitting and working on the computer right there.  What confuses me even more and why I don't think bluetooth is the issue is the fact that the connection is rock solid and never drops once with the same TWS sets sounding sublime when I'm listening to youtube or spotify for hours on the same computer.
> 
> ...



For Zoom calls; I use the phone audio option and dial in using my phone and Galaxy Buds Live.  If you enter your participant ID when you dial in by phone, Zoom will link up your computer video and phone audio so it is synchronized and shows up as one person. I just got off a 90 min call and it worked great (no complaints at least).


----------



## helmutcheese (Nov 2, 2020)

*FiiO UTSW3*















With the new FiiO Control APP update they revealed the FiiO UTSW3 do any of you have more information about them? It seems they are a higher end version of the FiiO UTSW1 I assume they have a true DAC Chip each. : FiiO (reddit.com)

Web Translator (translatetheweb.com)


----------



## Laethageal

Anyone have information about the potentially income Galaxy "Buds beyond"?


----------



## Caipirina

regancipher said:


> You're not missing much. Seemingly nothing new around, been looking for something small and well fitting but other than the mifo o9, which is basically the o4 in a different colour, and the kz sa08, which I bought about a month ago and the tracking doesn't even work, not seen anything look remotely interesting. Omthing Airfree were pretty good but battery life sucks


Kinda funny ... somehow a bit turned off by TWS these days (maybe also because I can't get anything new and I feel my in-ear skin is getting dry and itchy  )  so, I am rediscovering my wonderful over ears ... rocking the Hifiman HE400 now with balanced cable into the Earstudios 100  

But I am still missing my GBeans ... they drowned in my sweat (well, the right bud)


----------



## Caipirina

Laethageal said:


> Anyone have information about the potentially income Galaxy "Buds beyond"?


Beyond Live?  

Where you heard about that? I'd love to see an upgrade over the GBL adding more IPX power


----------



## Laethageal

Caipirina said:


> Beyond Live?
> 
> Where you heard about that? I'd love to see an upgrade over the GBL adding more IPX power



Not confirmed information, only some new EU Trademark.

https://www.sammobile.com/news/buds-beyond-new-earbuds-samsung-galaxy-s21/


----------



## trivik12

I think next galaxy buds will be an upgrade to buds plus with ANC(this was posted somewhere from leaks). I am hoping for at least IPX4 as even Jabra reduced water resistance rating of 85t due to additional mics. I hope they call it buds 2 instead of buds beyond or something ridiculous.


----------



## Aerosphere

Laethageal said:


> Anyone have information about the potentially income Galaxy "Buds beyond"?



They better improve the sound quality by a large margin... They have the means and capacity to do so much more than what they already did in the past


----------



## regancipher

Caipirina said:


> Kinda funny ... somehow a bit turned off by TWS these days (maybe also because I can't get anything new and I feel my in-ear skin is getting dry and itchy  )  so, I am rediscovering my wonderful over ears ... rocking the Hifiman HE400 now with balanced cable into the Earstudios 100
> 
> But I am still missing my GBeans ... they drowned in my sweat (well, the right bud)



Yeah mine did too. I blame the 1More Colorbuds!

I might give the beans a go, anything to try and get round the in ear fatigue and pressure on the tragus


----------



## regancipher

Tronsmart Onyx Ace dropping to their lowest price on 11.11


----------



## Robius

I'm really digging the sound of Fiil T1XS. I really liked the bass preset eq with DSP on. Also, passive isolation is so good you don't really need ANC.


----------



## d3myz

I'm not sure if this has been mentioned because i'm pages behind on the thread, but the Lypertek app is now available again on the Apple App store!!! I'm so exciting, i've been waiting forever for this!!


----------



## eiraku

Me on the other hand: Waiting for Fiil to update their English Fiil+ app to support the T1 Pro.

The T1XS is already being used more than the L2P for some reason these days (I suspect the tiny case and remarkably low latency has got something to do with it), so the moment the Fiil+ app gets updated...


----------



## Adnen Ayed

chinmie said:


> i finally tested the Sony WF SP700 and compare it to the SP900 briefly at the sony center. man... the bass on the SP700 is big! a bit much for me, but the bass is done in a good way and not to the point of covering the other frequency too much.
> 
> @SomeGuyDude how is the bass of the MW07 compared to the SP700? if i remember correctly you have both. is it louder in bass quantity compared to the SP700 or better in deeper extension and quality?


Do you have issues with the ANC during calls?


----------



## rhsauer

FYI, the Comply Smartcore tips fit securely on the Jabra 85t (with a little effort), have a waxguard (as do the stock 85t tips), and sound great.  For me, they're a much more comfortable alternative to the stock tips.  I'm hoping that Comply (and Spinfit) will, in some reasonable timeframe, release some tips that are designed for these earphones.


----------



## regancipher

eiraku said:


> Me on the other hand: Waiting for Fiil to update their English Fiil+ app to support the T1 Pro.
> 
> The T1XS is already being used more than the L2P for some reason these days (I suspect the tiny case and remarkably low latency has got something to do with it), so the moment the Fiil+ app gets updated...


I got the newest Chinese update 3.3.13, on 30.10 from the Xiaomi app store. Still won't change the language 🤦🏻‍♂️


----------



## chinmie

Adnen Ayed said:


> Do you have issues with the ANC during calls?



unfortunately i didn't test it for calls at that time


----------



## bronco1015

Excepted offer to review these:
https://usa.yamaha.com/products/audio_visual/headphones/tw-e7a/index.html
ANC, Wireless charging for $229. Wish they had APTX Adaptive. Got a neckband model on the way as well and it has APTX Adaptive.


----------



## assassin10000

bronco1015 said:


> Excepted offer to review these:
> https://usa.yamaha.com/products/audio_visual/headphones/tw-e7a/index.html
> ANC, Wireless charging for $229. Wish they had APTX Adaptive. Got a neckband model on the way as well and it has APTX Adaptive.



Neat. Looks like they use DSP to correct for the fletcher munson curve based on volume levels. What they call listener care. Not sure how it will sound in practice, but on paper could be a good thing.


----------



## erockg

assassin10000 said:


> Neat. Looks like they use DSP to correct for the fletcher munson curve based on volume levels. What they call listener care. Not sure how it will sound in practice, but on paper could be a good thing.


Had them for about three hours today.  Returning them.  The Jabra 85T and the MTW2 blow them away.  Yamaha's app is terrible.  Amazon sent me a box of 6 by accident.  Only charged me for one.  Sadly, I'm sending all 6 back.  Love Yamaha, but this is a first gen product.  Charging case is huge.  Buds do not have auto pause when you take them out.  They feel a bit cheap.  The app is terrible.  Sound is fine.  Nothing to rave about.  No EQ, nada.  I can't even walk into the other room, maybe 20-30 feet and the bt connection cuts out.  Oh well.  Hope you all have better luck with them than I did.


----------



## jant71

assassin10000 said:


> Neat. Looks like they use DSP to correct for the fletcher munson curve based on volume levels. What they call listener care. Not sure how it will sound in practice, but on paper could be a good thing.



A Japanese product so it came out there first and the Japanese are more lenient in there review scoring than we are...



2.4 stars on just over 30 reviews/ratings including 14 one star. SQ seems okay but below the price but it seems they don't work right so it makes no diference about the sound to them.

Did Yamaha fix the issues with these in any way before sending them over here?? Doesn't sound like it.


----------



## bronco1015

assassin10000 said:


> Neat. Looks like they use DSP to correct for the fletcher munson curve based on volume levels. What they call listener care. Not sure how it will sound in practice, but on paper could be a good thing.


That's one thing i'm really looking forward to testing.


----------



## bronco1015

erockg said:


> Had them for about three hours today.  Returning them.  The Jabra 85T and the MTW2 blow them away.  Yamaha's app is terrible.  Amazon sent me a box of 6 by accident.  Only charged me for one.  Sadly, I'm sending all 6 back.  Love Yamaha, but this is a first gen product.  Charging case is huge.  Buds do not have auto pause when you take them out.  They feel a bit cheap.  The app is terrible.  Sound is fine.  Nothing to rave about.  No EQ, nada.  I can't even walk into the other room, maybe 20-30 feet and the bt connection cuts out.  Oh well.  Hope you all have better luck with them than I did.


lol 6? wow. That's a huge mistake. I have no expectations just intrigue. never listened much to yamaha products. Getting a lot of firsts lately. one of which, the JLab epic air Sport ANC really shine after eq. i'm honestly shocked how good they sound. not by default, but with the in app eq.


----------



## DigDub

Return of the UFO!






A numerical display replaces the shiny LED lights.


----------



## Sam L

Just got the Oppo Enco W51 in from Aliexpress.

These sound really good for $57 USD. ANC is decent too. If the APP and Jabra 85t are 8.5/10, the Oppos are a solid 7.75/10. Finally got everything up and running on my old laptop, so I can finally measure and generate test curves.


----------



## Kalli (Nov 5, 2020)

Is there anything that compares to the Sennheiser MTW2, but with the ability to pair to 2 devices at the same time?

I really like the MTW2 for a lot of reasons. First of all (and my main priority) the sound. But also their touch interface, the fit and the ANC.
Most other features are quite good as well but could be improved if I want to be really nit picky. The case could be a bit smaller and/or ergonomic for pockets. The ambient mode picks up some wind noise. The app is somehow buggy and confusing. And the earbuds would fit me even better if they would be slightly smaller I think.

Thanks in advance for your suggestions. 

EDIT1: Are the Jabra Elite 85t still with that "bass only" sound signature?


----------



## Sam L (Nov 5, 2020)

Here's the FR graph for the Jabra 85t for those that are interested. By the way, what was Jabra thinking with these eartip sizes? I typically wear a medium, occasionally small for deeper insertion on some iems, but I still ideally need one size larger than their largest size. Regular iem eartips fit, though.


----------



## logiatype

Sam L said:


> Here's the FR graph for the Jabra 85t for those that are interested. By the way, what was Jabra thinking with these eartip sizes? I typically wear a medium, occasionally small for deeper insertion on some iems, but I still ideally need one size larger than their largest size. Regular iem eartips fit, though.


That looks pretty good! Assuming those spikes are your rig? A small boost at 3k it would be perfect in my eyes.


----------



## Sam L

logiatype said:


> That looks pretty good! Assuming those spikes are your rig? A small boost at 3k it would be perfect in my eyes.


the only spike from my rig is the 8.75khz coupler resonance point. The one just past 13khz is not typically from my coupler. The last one near 16khz is rare. My mic and source are both calibrated.


----------



## Kalli

Sam L said:


> Here's the FR graph for the Jabra 85t for those that are interested. By the way, what was Jabra thinking with these eartip sizes? I typically wear a medium, occasionally small for deeper insertion on some iems, but I still ideally need one size larger than their largest size. Regular iem eartips fit, though.


Thanks a lot. That doesn't look too bassy to be honest. Still not sure. Most reviews I saw, said it's way more bassy than the MTW2 and less clarity overall. It also lacks aptX for Android. Pairing to 2 devices is a huge benefit though. Seems like the MTW3 could be a potential win in all categories if Sennheiser does it right.


----------



## bubsdaddy (Nov 5, 2020)

After reading a review on Scarbir's site, I recently purchased a set of SoundPEATS Truefree2 tws. They have a great sound signature for running but create the dreaded thump due to the silicone tips and the seal. I usually find that switching to foam tips cured the thump, but I can't find any in my collection that allow the earbuds to seat into the case properly to charge. All of my foam tips appear to be to long - not too wide - to allow the case to close and charge. Has anyone had any success finding foam tips for these?


----------



## assassin10000

bubsdaddy said:


> After reading a review on Scarbir's site, I recently purchased a set of SoundPEATS Truefree2 tws. They have a great sound signature for running but create the dreaded thump due to the silicone tips and the seal. I usually find that switching to foam tips cured the thump, but I can't find any in my collection that allow the earbuds to seat into the case properly to charge. All of my foam tips appear to be to long - not too wide - to allow the case to close and charge. Has anyone had any success finding foam tips for these?



What do the nozzles of the TWS look like?

You may be able to get away with some de-cored APP foam tips or even some shortened/cut  T200 or T400 tips.

Ikko i-planet or Misodiko TWS-Pro style tips may also work.


De-cored APP



Shortened T200


----------



## Sam L

Here's a wavelet file for the Jabra 85t normalized to oratory1990 target.

The two graphs of note are the black = raw and blue = compensated result.



On wavelet, I can run this at 100% so far with no distortion. But I'm only several minutes into listening.


----------



## rhsauer

I've been listening to the Jabra 85t's v. the other ANC earphones I have right now (APP's, Jabra 75t's, and Libratone Track Air+), and I have to say the 85t's are really terrific -- great soundstage, very appealing sound signature, no real weaknesses to my (consumer) ears.  I like the sound on the 85t's better than any of the others -- and, really, as much as any other earphone I own.  Having said that, I'm still having fit problems. No matter what tips I use (and very few fit the oval stem), I find that as I move my jaw (talking or eating) the right earphone gets loose and eventually dislodges.  Jabra *really* needs to offer some different tip options.  How critical to the performance of these earphones was the decision to make these custom oval tips, with short oval stems?  Otherwise, these are so, so close to perfection.  Grrr.


----------



## FYLegend

DigDub said:


> Return of the UFO!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


MicroUSB? I see it listed as such and I recall other users saying similar variants with the number display were microUSB.

Has anyone found a UFO variant with true USB C2C charging and/or AptX? I recall the OEMs were offering versions with AptX on Alibaba and someone here got a unit but it seems no Aliexpress seller/brand sold them. I see Verbatim also has an AptX TWS with a more standard case with number displays, the shells somewhat resemble a mix of Sabbat E12 with MIFO 05.


----------



## Sam L

rhsauer said:


> I've been listening to the Jabra 85t's v. the other ANC earphones I have right now (APP's, Jabra 75t's, and Libratone Track Air+), and I have to say the 85t's are really terrific -- great soundstage, very appealing sound signature, no real weaknesses to my (consumer) ears.  I like the sound on the 85t's better than any of the others -- and, really, as much as any other earphone I own.  Having said that, I'm still having fit problems. No matter what tips I use (and very few fit the oval stem), I find that as I move my jaw (talking or eating) the right earphone gets loose and eventually dislodges.  Jabra *really* needs to offer some different tip options.  How critical to the performance of these earphones was the decision to make these custom oval tips, with short oval stems?  Otherwise, these are so, so close to perfection.  Grrr.



A number of tips fit fine. I ended up with rha double flange tips. Fits in the case perfectly.


----------



## jant71

Saw these today. Budget Qi wireless model from ADV is coming.
https://www.adv-sound.com/collections/true-wireless-earphones/products/model-y


----------



## DigDub

FYLegend said:


> MicroUSB? I see it listed as such and I recall other users saying similar variants with the number display were microUSB.
> 
> Has anyone found a UFO variant with true USB C2C charging and/or AptX? I recall the OEMs were offering versions with AptX on Alibaba and someone here got a unit but it seems no Aliexpress seller/brand sold them. I see Verbatim also has an AptX TWS with a more standard case with number displays, the shells somewhat resemble a mix of Sabbat E12 with MIFO 05.


Unfortunately it's micro USB. No volume control and the touch control has forward skipping of tracks, but not back.


----------



## chinmie

I've just "impulse-bought" this: Soundpeats Trueair 2, nice formfactor, slim case and unit, touch is nice, sound is okay, although a bit gritty on the treble for me (might need a bit of playtime). 
the only gripe i have is when i try to position them on my ears by grabbing the stems, the signals would cut out on one of them.. i don't know if this my unit only or all of them do this..


----------



## hifi80sman

OK, fellas.  Picked up the JBL Club Pro+ tonight, and wow, these may very well be the best sounding TWS I've ever heard.  Full featured, comfortable, excellent EQ, good ANC, and that sound...

Out of the box, the sound is fairly flat, maybe a little sparkle, but just a good, clean sound.  With the EQ, I can get the bass to dig super deep and give me some rumble that's amazing coming from a pair of TWS'.  Imaging is good and all instruments/sounds have their place.  I've been enjoying these for several hours and they are super addicting.  Also, took a few calls with no issues.  100% recommend.

https://www.bestbuy.com/site/jbl-club-pro-nc-true-wireless-headphone-black/6428333.p?skuId=6428333


----------



## Kalli

hifi80sman said:


> OK, fellas.  Picked up the JBL Club Pro+ tonight, and wow, these may very well be the best sounding TWS I've ever heard.  Full featured, comfortable, excellent EQ, good ANC, and that sound...
> 
> Out of the box, the sound is fairly flat, maybe a little sparkle, but just a good, clean sound.  With the EQ, I can get the bass to dig super deep and give me some rumble that's amazing coming from a pair of TWS'.  Imaging is good and all instruments/sounds have their place.  I've been enjoying these for several hours and they are super addicting.  Also, took a few calls with no issues.  100% recommend.
> 
> https://www.bestbuy.com/site/jbl-club-pro-nc-true-wireless-headphone-black/6428333.p?skuId=6428333


I remember trying the Club One over ear some time ago and it was stunning as well. Way too much bass for my liking, but fast and precise bass. The build quality at that price point was insane as well.

Do the Club Pro+ TWS have aptX and/or multi connection. Couldn't see any specifications mentioning it. Anything with aptX and multi connection would be awesome. Otherwise I'll stick with my MTW2.


----------



## jant71 (Nov 6, 2020)

Radius coming with a new high sound quality model and adding more features like ambient than earlier models...



HP-V700BT model with QCC3040 with TW mirroring, SBC/AAC/aptX Adaptive, ambient and 11/50 hours battery, IPX4. Carbon fiber dome diaphragm with N45 magnet strength...



plus armature...




They say they have... " achieved an overwhelming sound field feeling and dynamic dynamic range unlike any other as a completely wireless earphone". price will be around $200.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

All I know is the Jaybird Vista are flawless for gym headphones. I'm pretty sure you could do a muay thai sparring session with these and they wouldn't fall out.


----------



## Mouseman

jant71 said:


> Radius coming with a new high sound quality model and adding more features like ambient than earlier models...
> 
> HP-V700BT model with QCC3040 with TW mirroring, SBC/AAC/aptX Adaptive, ambient and 11/50 hours battery, IPX4. Carbon fiber dome diaphragm with N45 magnet strength...
> 
> ...


That looks like it might have a driver configuration like the L2Ps, which has great sound. If they have ambient and a good app, it might be a killer unit.


----------



## Luchyres (Nov 6, 2020)

hifi80sman said:


> OK, fellas.  Picked up the JBL Club Pro+ tonight, and wow, these may very well be the best sounding TWS I've ever heard.  Full featured, comfortable, excellent EQ, good ANC, and that sound...
> 
> Out of the box, the sound is fairly flat, maybe a little sparkle, but just a good, clean sound.  With the EQ, I can get the bass to dig super deep and give me some rumble that's amazing coming from a pair of TWS'.  Imaging is good and all instruments/sounds have their place.  I've been enjoying these for several hours and they are super addicting.  Also, took a few calls with no issues.  100% recommend.
> 
> https://www.bestbuy.com/site/jbl-club-pro-nc-true-wireless-headphone-black/6428333.p?skuId=6428333



I must know more -given I think we have similar taste in sound signatures.

Do they have multipoint or apt-x? How would you compare vs Elite Active 75t for calls/sound?

I really like the 75t as a total package for exercise/calls/good sound when EQ'd, but the left earphone doesn't quiiite match the right and has a slight 'resonance sweep' as I think someone called it. These JBL and their extendable bass seem very interesting. How big is the case? Thank you!

edit @hifi80sman I already impulse bought them from a reseller on Amazon that ships to PR (we'll see) because I can't help myself and hearing your subdued but very positive endorsement got me interested. 

Why is there no info on codecs/multipoint online? :Sob:


----------



## Kalli

jant71 said:


> Radius coming with a new high sound quality model and adding more features like ambient than earlier models...
> 
> HP-V700BT model with QCC3040 with TW mirroring, SBC/AAC/aptX Adaptive, ambient and 11/50 hours battery, IPX4. Carbon fiber dome diaphragm with N45 magnet strength...
> 
> ...


Do you know if those upcoming Qualcomm chips, which are BT5.2, are also usable with all of their features with BT5.0 devices like smartphones and similar?
Or is it pointless to wait for 5.2 TWS devices, if I'm using a BT5.0 device to connect to?


----------



## Inear

hifi80sman said:


> OK, fellas.  Picked up the JBL Club Pro+ tonight, and wow, these may very well be the best sounding TWS I've ever heard.  Full featured, comfortable, excellent EQ, good ANC, and that sound...
> 
> Out of the box, the sound is fairly flat, maybe a little sparkle, but just a good, clean sound.  With the EQ, I can get the bass to dig super deep and give me some rumble that's amazing coming from a pair of TWS'.  Imaging is good and all instruments/sounds have their place.  I've been enjoying these for several hours and they are super addicting.  Also, took a few calls with no issues.  100% recommend.
> 
> https://www.bestbuy.com/site/jbl-club-pro-nc-true-wireless-headphone-black/6428333.p?skuId=6428333




How is the ANC compared to Elite 85t? I'm looking at both, but JBL is cheaper if the ANC is comparable might just buy the JBL.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

hifi80sman said:


> OK, fellas.  Picked up the JBL Club Pro+ tonight, and wow, these may very well be the best sounding TWS I've ever heard.  Full featured, comfortable, excellent EQ, good ANC, and that sound...
> 
> Out of the box, the sound is fairly flat, maybe a little sparkle, but just a good, clean sound.  With the EQ, I can get the bass to dig super deep and give me some rumble that's amazing coming from a pair of TWS'.  Imaging is good and all instruments/sounds have their place.  I've been enjoying these for several hours and they are super addicting.  Also, took a few calls with no issues.  100% recommend.
> 
> https://www.bestbuy.com/site/jbl-club-pro-nc-true-wireless-headphone-black/6428333.p?skuId=6428333


Been a while since I've peeped the thread but which of the "higher end" TWS have you tried?


----------



## hifi80sman (Nov 6, 2020)

SomeGuyDude said:


> Been a while since I've peeped the thread but which of the "higher end" TWS have you tried?


Most of the major releases in the US, such as the Bose QC, Bose Sport, Sony XM3, Sony SP800N, Jabra 65t & 75t, MW07 & MW07 Plus, MTW, B&O E8, Galaxy Buds, Klipsch T5, Anker Soundcore Liberty 2 Pro & Liberty Air 2 , Galaxy Buds Live, Plantronics BackBeat PRO 5100, 1More Stylish, Advanced Model X+ Plus, HOM Liberate Air, NUARL NT01AX-BM, RHA TrueConnect, and maybe a few more.

I have not yet tried the Jabra 85t, MTW2, Klipsch T5 II, or the newer NUARLs.


----------



## Kalli (Nov 6, 2020)

hifi80sman said:


> Most of the major releases in the US, such as the Bose QC, Bose Sport, Jabra 65t & 75t, MW07 & MW07 Plus, MTW, B&O E8, Galaxy Buds, Klipsch T5, Anker Soundcore Liberty 2 Pro & Liberty Air 2 , Galaxy Buds Live, Plantronics BackBeat PRO 5100, 1More Stylish, Advanced Model X+ Plus, HOM Liberate Air, NUARL NT01AX-BM, RHA TrueConnect, and maybe a few more.
> 
> I have not yet tried the Jabra 85t, MTW2, Klipsch T5 II, or the newer NUARLs.


Those are a lot. 

Any chance you can tell me if the MW07 Plus are worth a go if I like the MTW2?
I know you didn't listen to them, but sound wise (which is my main priority) they're pretty similar to the MTW(1).
Or do you have any other recommendation to look at when trying to find the best sound? Mainly for classical music.

EDIT1: Are there sites like the crinacle site, which focuses on TWS IEMs? Sound first, and then all that tech stuff.


----------



## hifi80sman

Inear said:


> How is the ANC compared to Elite 85t? I'm looking at both, but JBL is cheaper if the ANC is comparable might just buy the JBL.


Haven't tried the 85t.  I'd say the ANC is "good" and is lesser than Sony, Bose, etc. but better than the MW07 Plus.  I used it while driving (I know, I'm "bad") and it took away much of the road noise from my SUV, so listening to music was enjoyable.


----------



## hifi80sman

Kalli said:


> Those are a lot.
> 
> Any chance you can tell me if the MW07 Plus are worth a go if I like the MTW2?
> I know you didn't listen to them, but sound wise (which is my main priority) they're pretty similar to the MTW(1).
> ...


Obviously, I for giving anything a try!  If you have no issues with returning it, then it's worth a shot.  They have a clear presentation with some tasteful low-end.  ANC is not that great, but at least does something if you need it in a pinch.


----------



## howdy

hifi80sman said:


> OK, fellas.  Picked up the JBL Club Pro+ tonight, and wow, these may very well be the best sounding TWS I've ever heard.  Full featured, comfortable, excellent EQ, good ANC, and that sound...
> 
> Out of the box, the sound is fairly flat, maybe a little sparkle, but just a good, clean sound.  With the EQ, I can get the bass to dig super deep and give me some rumble that's amazing coming from a pair of TWS'.  Imaging is good and all instruments/sounds have their place.  I've been enjoying these for several hours and they are super addicting.  Also, took a few calls with no issues.  100% recommend.
> 
> https://www.bestbuy.com/site/jbl-club-pro-nc-true-wireless-headphone-black/6428333.p?skuId=6428333


Your enjoying the JBL more than the Bose Qc? Im waiting for some of the Holiday sales to happen and get the Bose or Something before the end of the year.

Im still loving the sound of the 85t even with the not so perfect seal. Since you don't mind buying and returning things are you gonna give the 85t a whirl?


----------



## hifi80sman

Kalli said:


> I remember trying the Club One over ear some time ago and it was stunning as well. Way too much bass for my liking, but fast and precise bass. The build quality at that price point was insane as well.
> 
> Do the Club Pro+ TWS have aptX and/or multi connection. Couldn't see any specifications mentioning it. Anything with aptX and multi connection would be awesome. Otherwise I'll stick with my MTW2.


No, there is no multi-point.

They auto connect via AAC when I pair them with my Galaxy phone.  No aptX.


----------



## hifi80sman

howdy said:


> Your enjoying the JBL more than the Bose Qc? Im waiting for some of the Holiday sales to happen and get the Bose or Something before the end of the year.
> 
> Im still loving the sound of the 85t even with the not so perfect seal. Since you don't mind buying and returning things are you gonna give the 85t a whirl?


I am enjoying the JBL more than the Bose.  The Bose are great, but the JBL sound more "hi-res".  Plus, the EQ is very customizable and the drivers can handle whatever you throw at them.

Given the 75t is really good and some say sound better, I'm a little lukewarm on the 85t, especially given I feel the JBL take the 75t's lunch money.


----------



## vladzakhar

Didn't like the JBLs when I bought them. Returned them the same day. Sound is nice, but everything else is meeh. The buds and the case are too bulky. Hard to take the buds out of the case and I hate touch controls. For me 75Ts are much better package.


----------



## Darkestred

hifi80sman said:


> OK, fellas.  Picked up the JBL Club Pro+ tonight, and wow, these may very well be the best sounding TWS I've ever heard.  Full featured, comfortable, excellent EQ, good ANC, and that sound...
> 
> Out of the box, the sound is fairly flat, maybe a little sparkle, but just a good, clean sound.  With the EQ, I can get the bass to dig super deep and give me some rumble that's amazing coming from a pair of TWS'.  Imaging is good and all instruments/sounds have their place.  I've been enjoying these for several hours and they are super addicting.  Also, took a few calls with no issues.  100% recommend.
> 
> https://www.bestbuy.com/site/jbl-club-pro-nc-true-wireless-headphone-black/6428333.p?skuId=6428333



How are apps like youtube? not that i really use it but ive seen mentions of echo.

also, radius? im certain they had an iem hit 6 or 7 years ago. could be confusing them, tho


----------



## dweaver

Sitting listening to WH-910N to a jazz track Devil May Care live in Paris by Dianna Krall a nd realized I had just listened to that song using the WF-XB700 and I thought this seems way more engaging???

Ended up doing  an A/B comparison and man is there a massive difference between the 2. Everything from the sound stage and imaging, to cymbal reproduction, piano, vocals.  Essentially everything was that much more vibrant and engaging on the 910N.

I think it might boil down to the midrange being a bit more forward and upper midrange oriented on the XB700. It just made the vocals a bit to sharp and made the cymbals to noisy taking away dark space from the song if that makes sense.

Also might be showing the benefits of LDAC protocols and a wired left right speaker vs TW, not to mention speaker differences. But reminded me why I still own over ear headphones.


----------



## d3myz

rhsauer said:


> Third party tips are problematic with the 85t's because of the very large oval stem.  Also, the provided tips have a mesh inside that, I assume, is intended to keep earwax and dirt out of the earphones.  Third party tips won't have that.
> 
> What I did was follow these instructions:  https://www.imore.com/diy-make-your-own-moldable-ear-buds-cheap.  I decided to start with Blu-tack (which I had handy) rather than Sugru, because I thought Blu-tack would be more easily removable in case I ultimately decide to return or sell the earphones.  With Blu-tack added under the provided large size tips, as described in the article (took about 3 minutes total), the fit and isolation (and comfort) is much improved.  YMMV, of course.


Are the stems on the 85t's as large as the Mavin Air-X TWS? Those have about the biggest stems I've ever seen and I was able to find an assortment of tips that fit them.


----------



## jant71

dweaver said:


> Sitting listening to WH-910N to a jazz track Devil May Care live in Paris by Dianna Krall a nd realized I had just listened to that song using the WF-XB700 and I thought this seems way more engaging???
> 
> Ended up doing  an A/B comparison and man is there a massive difference between the 2. Everything from the sound stage and imaging, to cymbal reproduction, piano, vocals.  Essentially everything was that much more vibrant and engaging on the 910N.
> 
> ...



Also a nice big driver with more surface area really can sound nice and not struggle as much as the smaller Sony driver with all the elements it is trying to present. That and moving more air and the interaction with the outer ear that the in-ears can't replicate naturally. Love my Philips SHB7250 for a few reasons including the deal it was for $24 shipped and it has wired option and separate button for pairing besides power and it is a super light 167 grams for an over ear.


----------



## hifi80sman (Nov 7, 2020)

Darkestred said:


> How are apps like youtube? not that i really use it but ive seen mentions of echo.


No echo at all.  Been watching a lot of news coverage today and sync on YouTube is great with no audio anomalies.


----------



## dweaver

Those Phillips look interesting. I had a chance to buy some for around $70 once maybe should have tried those.

The interesting thing about the 910N is they have a 30mm driver which is part of why I bought them. I thought maybe a whole new driver might be better than the standard 40mm they have been using over the past few years.


----------



## jant71

dweaver said:


> Those Phillips look interesting. I had a chance to buy some for around $70 once maybe should have tried those.
> 
> The interesting thing about the 910N is they have a 30mm driver which is part of why I bought them. I thought maybe a whole new driver might be better than the standard 40mm they have been using over the past few years.



The 30mm is still quite a bit bigger than the 12mm in the XB700 though. 

No aptX but where else can you get a 167 gram over ear. I just remembered they have NFC so I just put the A26 up to the left earcup and they turn the Philips on and connect them. Also don't have to have the BT on the Sony turned on since the NFC turns it on if it is not activated.


----------



## dweaver

Lol, absolutely a change from 40 to 30 is a big jump, so going from that to 12mm is a serious change .


----------



## clerkpalmer

The Grado are calling my name... Best in class audio? 

https://www.techradar.com/reviews/grado-gt220


----------



## karloil

Got another Tevi...old one goes to my brother.


----------



## karloil (Nov 7, 2020)

.......aaannnddd got a new comer too


----------



## Kalli

hifi80sman said:


> Obviously, I for giving anything a try!  If you have no issues with returning it, then it's worth a shot.  They have a clear presentation with some tasteful low-end.  ANC is not that great, but at least does something if you need it in a pinch.


Do the MW07 have an app? I couldn't find any information about that. While a lot of apps aren't that good, I still have the hope that manufacturers get better in the software department. 
At least for firmware updates/fixes it would be nice.


----------



## chinmie

anyone getting the Fiil CC2? this newer revision seems to up the battery life to acceptable 5 hours per charge, and also adds volume controls


----------



## hifi80sman

Kalli said:


> Do the MW07 have an app? I couldn't find any information about that. While a lot of apps aren't that good, I still have the hope that manufacturers get better in the software department.
> At least for firmware updates/fixes it would be nice.


No app for the MW07.  As far as app support goes, the JBL app is pretty good.  They really stepped up their game with the Club series.  I have the on-ear Club 700 and over-ear Club One, both of which (sound wise) are at the front of their respective classes.  JBL has always disappointed me until this series.


----------



## bronco1015

Earlier today excepted invite to review the

https://www.jabra.com/bluetooth-headsets/jabra-elite-85t##100-99190000-02
If i were buying i'd likely get the 75T as they're smaller, but for a review unit that i get to keep, i'm definitely not complaining..


----------



## hifi80sman

clerkpalmer said:


> The Grado are calling my name... Best in class audio?
> 
> https://www.techradar.com/reviews/grado-gt220


I don't know, friend, I'm a little iffy on the whole package.  I like how they play up "8mm polyethylene terephthalate drivers".  You mean, PET, like my water bottles?  LOL.

The review almost sounds like a puff piece, as if the PROS and CONS are geared to justify its shortcomings.  I don't know, I just may be a little cynical, but the price seems a little offensive for what they're offering.

*Buy them if...*
*You want the complete picture*
The GT220 will peer deep into a song’s mix and extract every last scrap of information.
*You listen to many different genres of music*
The Grados like all the different types of music you like – which is nice.
*You value discretion*
There’s nothing showy about the way these earbuds look, with an understated design.
*Don't buy them if...*
*You like fiddling with EQ settings*
There’s no control app here, and consequently no adjustment of sound available. Nor is it necessary, to be quite honest.
*The idea of active noise-cancelling appeals*
The way the GT220 fit offers a degree of passive isolation, but Bose’s QuietComfort Earbuds are what you want where active noise-cancelling is concerned.
*You want everyone to know you’re wearing expensive earbuds*
The Grados may sound the money’s-worth all day long, but they don’t really look it.


----------



## hifi80sman

bronco1015 said:


> Earlier today excepted invite to review the
> 
> https://www.jabra.com/bluetooth-headsets/jabra-elite-85t##100-99190000-02
> If i were buying i'd likely get the 75T as they're smaller, but for a review unit that i get to keep, i'm definitely not complaining..


Nice.  How did you get an invite to review? Amazon?


----------



## bronco1015

hifi80sman said:


> Nice.  How did you get an invite to review? Amazon?


yeah.


----------



## bronco1015

bronco1015 said:


> yeah.


Been curious about an Earin M3 and their site is still in 'maintenence mode.'
"Something is going on!" 'Be the first to know!.'
Gimicky crap like that definitely gets me less interested.


----------



## BigZ12

karloil said:


> .......aaannnddd got a new comer too


Nice. How does the Levi sound compared to the Tevis?


----------



## karloil

BigZ12 said:


> Nice. How does the Levi sound compared to the Tevis?



I'll give impressions by tonight. Had to do some errands 1st


----------



## rhsauer

d3myz said:


> Are the stems on the 85t's as large as the Mavin Air-X TWS? Those have about the biggest stems I've ever seen and I was able to find an assortment of tips that fit them.


They are about as wide, but they are short and oval, so it's not easy to find a third party tip that fits and stays on.  I'm using the medium smartcore Complys at the moment and you can get them on and they stay on reliably.


----------



## Darkestred

clerkpalmer said:


> The Grado are calling my name... Best in class audio?
> 
> https://www.techradar.com/reviews/grado-gt220



Im intrigued as well but the price is a bit high on a blind buy.  It would have to suck me off or take a lot to dethrone my L2Ps.


----------



## karloil

Impressions with the Lypertek Levi. Will base the comparison between the Tevi and Levi - focusing more on the Levi. A warning, even if I'm years into this hobby, I'm no reviewer. I still don't know the correct audio lingos - so please, bear with me. 

Comparison was done using a OnePlus 8 Pro using Spotify, mixed Genre, volume was set to around 70%. Tips on both TWS were changed to CP360s. Levi will only show as 1 device under your bluetooth settings, no L - R, unlike the Tevi. Also used my new Tevi for this comparison.  

Case
- Levi case is smaller and has Qi wireless charging.
- It takes approximately 2-3 seconds for the Levi to power off after you have put it in the case and closed the lid - you can still hear music playing after closing the lid!



Unit itself
- I like the button implementation on the Levi, easier to press versus the Tevi's.

Comfort
- Both are comfortable to wear.

Sound
General: Levi gives an engaging energy - more than the Tevi. The Levi is short of screaming 'in your face' - even in the same 70% volume setting, you're being forced to move it a few notches down.

Bass: Tevi - more refined. Levi - bloated, has more impact. If you feel that the Tevi lacks bass - the Levi addresses this. (I for one don't think that the Tevi lacks punch.)
Mids: Tevi - cleaner, clearer, sweeter. Levi - this is where the 'in your face' comes in - mids are more elevated, just a few notched down in terms of clarity as compared to Tevi.
Highs: Levi lacks the crispness that the Tevi has (in certain tracks) - this is more apparent in acoustic tracks. Again, the Tevi gives more defined highs, with the Levi a few notches down. 

Overall - The Tevi is more cleaner sounding and is not as aggressive as the Levi. But while I was conducting this comparison, no matter which of the 2 I use - I still find myself tapping my feet, swaying my head and singing with the songs I'm listen to. In short, both are a joy to listen to!

The Levi is a rougher Tevi.


----------



## d3myz

Trebor1966 said:


> FIIL T1 Lite already out for selling in China:
> 
> https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=&sl=zh-CN&tl=en&u=http://zhongce.sina.com.cn/article/view/65268


Tell us how you really feel FIIL.


----------



## Trebor1966 (Nov 7, 2020)

I already have a huge collection of TWS - but IMHO FIIL T1XS with Foam Tips beats everything with its neutral audiophile sound.
Also way better than TEVI.

I am stll waiting for a review from Scarbir when he gets his hands on FIIL T1 Lite.


----------



## Bhelpoori

Monoprice TWE with ANC using the Qualcomm 5124... not much new there but it is interesting:

Sonarworks SoundID built in. https://www.sonarworks.com/soundid which is a first and since this works well for me on a desktop, I’m very intrigued.
Decent controls including volume control
Can turn ANC off
$130
End of November due date
Battery life looks ok though I don’t believe 10 hours
More at: https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=41500


----------



## hifi80sman

Bhelpoori said:


> Monoprice TWE with ANC using the Qualcomm 5124... not much new there but it is interesting:
> 
> Sonarworks SoundID built in. https://www.sonarworks.com/soundid which is a first and since this works well for me on a desktop, I’m very intrigued.
> Decent controls including volume control
> ...


Looks like the same shell & case variant as the Cleer Ally Plus but with better specs and full touch controls.  Very intriguing, as I was initially looking at the Cleer a while back.


----------



## TK33

Has anyone tried sending their MTW case back for repairs? The case for my Senn MTW (original) finally broke today after lasting 15 months (has been clicking out of place everytime I opened it so far).  Probably lasted longer because i have just been at home for the last 8 months and not commuting. Wondering if they will even "repair" it and if it is worth the cost and effort.  May be time to just retire it.


----------



## hifi80sman

TK33 said:


> Has anyone tried sending their MTW case back for repairs? The case for my Senn MTW (original) finally broke today after lasting 15 months (has been clicking out of place everytime I opened it so far).  Probably lasted longer because i have just been at home for the last 8 months and not commuting. Wondering if they will even "repair" it and if it is worth the cost and effort.  May be time to just retire it.


I'm pretty sure 15 months is out of warranty, but hey, customer service-wise, never hurts to see if they're willing to do it, even if it's a deeply discounted cost.

Are you still using the MTW in your rotation?  There are some great options out there now that won't break the bank.


----------



## Kalli (Nov 8, 2020)

TK33 said:


> Has anyone tried sending their MTW case back for repairs? The case for my Senn MTW (original) finally broke today after lasting 15 months (has been clicking out of place everytime I opened it so far).  Probably lasted longer because i have just been at home for the last 8 months and not commuting. Wondering if they will even "repair" it and if it is worth the cost and effort.  May be time to just retire it.


At least here in Germany, Sennheiser gives 2 years of manufacturer warranty.



hifi80sman said:


> I'm pretty sure 15 months is out of warranty, but hey, customer service-wise, never hurts to see if they're willing to do it, even if it's a deeply discounted cost.
> 
> Are you still using the MTW in your rotation?  There are some great options out there now that won't break the bank.


Any suggestions?
Preferably (warm) neutral detailed sound signature, ambient mode, aptX and connecting to more than one device at the same time.

EDIT1: Doesn't have to be budget. If it's worth it, I don't mind paying for it.


----------



## johnston21 (Nov 8, 2020)

Are there any earbuds recently  added with aptx ll support?


----------



## clerkpalmer

hifi80sman said:


> I don't know, friend, I'm a little iffy on the whole package.  I like how they play up "8mm polyethylene terephthalate drivers".  You mean, PET, like my water bottles?  LOL.
> 
> The review almost sounds like a puff piece, as if the PROS and CONS are geared to justify its shortcomings.  I don't know, I just may be a little cynical, but the price seems a little offensive for what they're offering.
> 
> ...


----------



## Luke Skywalker

Firevortex said:


> I used the Bose QC extensively today for 2-3hrs and spent around 30mins or so A/B testing it against the Nuarl N10 Pro. My setup is USB Player Pro on TIDA with bit perfect out put setting. The Bose QC feels bass heavy and the bass bleeds into the mids colouring the sound. It sounds like a 15" subwoofer rumbling at the back ground. This is very pronounce if you have a pure Acoustic track or Piano track playing. The instruments just don't sound natural to me. Grand Piano sounds like electric keyboard and guitar sounds like electric guitar. The sound stage is very wide, on some tracks i can feel the music is coming around 3cm out side the ear. In-comparison, the Nuarl N10 sounds much cleaner. It doesn't have that bass rumble, nor is the bass punchy. Have to say the N10 lacks bass but it makes up for it in imaging, separation and sound stage. Yes. It beats the Bose QC on sound stage. Its about 7-8cm out side the ear. its especially clear on tracks like Nora Jones seven years on TIDA Master, the acoustic guitar positioning is much further to the left behind the ear, while the vocal is right of the head. the Bose has the acoustic guitar positioned inside the left ear while the vocal is towards the centre of the head. On pop tracks and female vocals the Bose feels warmer tube like, the N10 feels more clinical natural AKG/ Etymotic type sound where you can hear each whisper. I personally prefer the N10 Pro with its clarity and impressive sound stage. I just don't like the Bose QC bass its less punchy and tight like the Nuarl N6 mini my wife picked up few weeks ago and the N6 drivers are considered bass heavy.
> 
> ANC performance, Bose wins hands down. it suppresses all frequency ranges while the N10(high ANC mode) suppresses the lower frequency better making the outside noise sound very weird with higher frequency more prominent.
> 
> ...


Hey I'm in the US.  Any suggestions on where to buy the N10 Pro?  I still don't see them on Amazon.  I love the N6P and I can't wait to see how the N10 sounds compared to my new Bose NC buds


----------



## Inear

Hoping for Black Friday deals on Jabra 85t or  JBL Club Pro plus.


----------



## TK33

hifi80sman said:


> I'm pretty sure 15 months is out of warranty, but hey, customer service-wise, never hurts to see if they're willing to do it, even if it's a deeply discounted cost.
> 
> Are you still using the MTW in your rotation?  There are some great options out there now that won't break the bank.


Pretty sure Sennheiser has a 2 year warranty on its products, at least that is what I recall seeing when I was looking up warranty and repairs last night before I posted here...only problem is that cases are generally excluded so I was curious if anyone here had any success.  

I mostly uae the MTW with a Surface now and not as much daily.  Find myself using my SE846 or SE535s with a Qudelix 5K and Galaxy Buds Live (calls) more now that I am at home most of the time but I really liked these for commuting before COVID. Didn't really see a reason to buy anything new since it works fine and was hoping to skip the MTW2 to see what they do for a v3.  

I do have other TWS so don't really need another...just really liked these. I've been using MTW for a Microsoft Surface, MW07 Go & SE846 or SE535/Qudelix 5K for my V60, Galaxy Buds Live for S9 (main phone for calls), and SE425s/BT2 paired to my Node 2i when my wife or son are in the room while I am working (multipoint is great). Have a JBL Reflect Flow for riding my exercise bike.  When I was commuting, I mostly used MTW everyday and SE846/ES100 (now in the bottom of a drawer somewhere) so I am a bit bummed about this.


----------



## howdy

My son bought the Bose QC TWS today so I can just use his if I want. They are really comfortable! I'll have to listen to them tonight, I only got to listen to them for one song so far.


----------



## hifi80sman

howdy said:


> My son bought the Bose QC TWS today so I can just use his if I want. They are really comfortable! I'll have to listen to them tonight, I only got to listen to them for one song so far.


Comfort/Sound combination is absolutely fantastic.  I still think pure audio quality goes to the JBL Club Pro+, however, after a few hours, the plastic does make my ears a bit sore and I need a break.  I can wear both the QC and Sport earbuds all day long.  That being said, I do crave the Bose sound signature to feed the beast.


----------



## tma6

hifi80sman said:


> Comfort/Sound combination is absolutely fantastic.  I still think pure audio quality goes to the JBL Club Pro+, however, after a few hours, the plastic does make my ears a bit sore and I need a break.  I can wear both the QC and Sport earbuds all day long.  That being said, I do crave the Bose sound signature to feed the beast.



JBLs that good??


----------



## hifi80sman

tma6 said:


> JBLs that good??


I think so.  Bose still has the best sound stage and probably the best for movies, etc. but the JBL still have the technical advantage.  Best Buy has them in stock and also have their extended holiday return policy just in case.


----------



## rattlingblanketwoman

Not a comment on its overall SQ (which perhaps just as a matter of taste, didn't blow me away) but seeing as it's one of its listed features I have this feedback about the FiiL T1 XS: The transparency mode is useless for its intended purpose.

I couldn't tell if it was 'on' apart from trebly sounds only (clinks and clanks) being amplified and bursting through what I was listening to.
Hearing what someone in the same room is saying to you? Not a chance, anything not distinctly high pitched or the kind of thing that usually gets through your isolation is locked out. They advertise it as being a way to have important spoken announcements piped through, this was not the case for me.

I didn't love the lack of button customization, or the deafults (I did try both types of button setting).

I know the main emphasis here is SQ, but just my 2¢ about its other features, when the SQ wasn't as stand-out as I'd expected.


----------



## TK33

hifi80sman said:


> I think so.  Bose still has the best sound stage and probably the best for movies, etc. but the JBL still have the technical advantage.  Best Buy has them in stock and also have their extended holiday return policy just in case.


Have you compared to the AKG N400s by any chance? I have had my eye on those for a while.


----------



## Luchyres

TK33 said:


> Have you compared to the AKG N400s by any chance? I have had my eye on those for a while.



I am seconding the JBL's as a worthwhile listen - I just received mine today and am putting them through their paces, acoustically. The bass extension is for real, and are the main way in which these blow right past the AKG N400 in my experience. Those, when pushed in the lower frequencies at all, did not perform well for me. I tried out and returned the AKG N400 very quickly. 


The JBL's have great EQ ability - I'm just annoyed I can't change the volume/convert the long tap and hold away from an assistant to modify volume. 

If JBL releases an update to the firmware to let the gestures be fully customized, that would be awesome. The one other thing that would really make these my top choice would be multipoint for the JBL.

I'm not for sure keeping the JBL yet, but I plan to test the mic for calls etc soon and decide if I can live without multipoint in this set.


----------



## regancipher

FIIL released 4.0.2 apk this week....still no T1 Pro support


----------



## TK33

Luchyres said:


> I am seconding the JBL's as a worthwhile listen - I just received mine today and am putting them through their paces, acoustically. The bass extension is for real, and are the main way in which these blow right past the AKG N400 in my experience. Those, when pushed in the lower frequencies at all, did not perform well for me. I tried out and returned the AKG N400 very quickly.
> 
> 
> The JBL's have great EQ ability - I'm just annoyed I can't change the volume/convert the long tap and hold away from an assistant to modify volume.
> ...


Thanks. Very helpful. Would be interested in your impressions om call quality as well.  Also, are you using them with Android by any chance?


----------



## Luchyres

TK33 said:


> Thanks. Very helpful. Would be interested in your impressions om call quality as well.  Also, are you using them with Android by any chance?



I am on a 2020 iPhone SE, sadly. Will get back to you on call quality. 

I did just notice that the bass extension/some audio characteristics including volume are limited with the ANC on - with an effect almost like a soft form of gain reduction to decrease clipping, this effect goes away, and the headphone will be considerably louder at the same volume setting (careful!) if you toggle off ANC in the app. With ANC off, they will be louder and you can push the EQ further. 

This also gives me some hope they may make improvements to the firmware (volume controls, but also ANC/feature/sound improvement).


----------



## Inear

hifi80sman said:


> I think so.  Bose still has the best sound stage and probably the best for movies, etc. but the JBL still have the technical advantage.  Best Buy has them in stock and also have their extended holiday return policy just in case.




Is the JBL IP rated? I can't seem to find anything online.


----------



## jant71

Bought a pair that I have liked the look of since they were about $30 for me last night. The Atta Gora Liberte.











Have to charge them. At least they come with a paper inside telling you you remove the battery tabs and then charge. The tabs are black with a long pull so most would notice them covering the battery terminals anyway. Still need to charge. Qi wireless charging them atm. Mostly about looks but supposed to be 25M range and there are reports of the SQ being good. Design is cool with the leather strap and bar LEDS. Bottom of the strap covers the USB C port with a metal tab on the strap and a magnet just below the USB port. Only connected the right side as the left needs a charge but seems to be decent sounding Graphene drivers in them. Nice looking grills but may take them off if they are too bassy...




Time will tell but they are pretty cool. No frills just a long range, good fit, solid sound and a cool design. I even overlooked they don't do volume control.


----------



## TK33

Inear said:


> Is the JBL IP rated? I can't seem to find anything online.



https://www.jbl.com/wireless-headphones/CLUB-PRO-PLUS-TWS.html

IPX4 per the Q&A section


----------



## hifi80sman (Nov 10, 2020)

Inear said:


> Is the JBL IP rated? I can't seem to find anything online.


The box says "sweat and water resistant", however, it doesn't actually disclose a rating.

Apparently "Ray" at Customer Support says it's IPX4.  Odd it's not actually listed, but then again, they don't list AAC either.


----------



## gocam (Nov 10, 2020)

hifi80sman said:


> Looks like the same shell & case variant as the Cleer Ally Plus but with better specs and full touch controls.  Very intriguing, as I was initially looking at the Cleer a while back.



Sidenote - I have the Cleer Ally Pluses - if you are on android you can actually download the SoundID app right now and they have support for the Cleers, so not sure if the Mono's offer anything more ? ( https://www.sonarworks.com/soundid/supported-headphones -- see if your TWS is on there, I also notice Klipsch, 1MORE, Edifer etc) --- supported apps here : https://support.sonarworks.com/hc/e...alization-for-most-popular-Android-music-apps - alas no Tidal yet

I have to say though, listening with Spotify - when one listens to spotify WITHOUT soundID installed the music sounds a certain way. Once you install and calibrate the soundID app to your liking, it all feels very impressive, then you listen to the same track again when you toggle soundID off it is a TOTALLY different sound, much different from what Spotify sounded like prior to soundID's installation. Then you toggle soundID on and lo and behold it sounds better but this all very suspicious as the A/B is no longer between soundID and vanilla spotify, but between soundID and....something else that sounds obviously worse. Give it a try and let us know what you find if you feel likewise inclined ? If you force stop both spotify and soundID, then relaunch spotify you'll get back your original vanilla sound.

This makes it all very difficult to work out what it is doing relative to an app's original sound!


----------



## Bhelpoori (Nov 10, 2020)

gocam said:


> Sidenote - I have the Cleer Ally Pluses - if you are on android you can actually download the SoundID app right now and they have support for the Cleers, so not sure if the Mono's offer anything more ? ( https://www.sonarworks.com/soundid/supported-headphones -- see if your TWS is on there, I also notice Klipsch, 1MORE, Edifer etc) --- supported apps here : https://support.sonarworks.com/hc/e...alization-for-most-popular-Android-music-apps - alas no Tidal yet
> 
> I have to say though, listening with Spotify - when one listens to spotify WITHOUT soundID installed the music sounds a certain way. Once you install and calibrate the soundID app to your liking, it all feels very impressive, then you listen to the same track again when you toggle soundID off it is a TOTALLY different sound, much different from what Spotify sounded like prior to soundID's installation. Then you toggle soundID on and lo and behold it sounds better but this all very suspicious as the A/B is no longer between soundID and vanilla spotify, but between soundID and....something else that sounds obviously worse. Give it a try and let us know what you find if you feel likewise inclined ? If you force stop both spotify and soundID, then relaunch spotify you'll get back your original vanilla sound.
> 
> This makes it all very difficult to work out what it is doing relative to an app's original sound!


It is confusing because this is all so new and because it is unknown what SoundID actually does.

SoundID Listen app used to only do the testing, build a profile, and store it in the cloud. It didn't play at all, except for a sample. The player was only on Mac/PC and only with the supported headphones on the list linked above. SoundID off on Mac compared to play direct, with volume compensation, appears to be the same as without SoundID though caveats apply (no quantitative data and tested it ages ago)

Now, there seems to be (I am not connected/working for Sonarworks so if their is someone from Sonarworks lurking, please correct me) two different things going on:
1. The new Mono TWS (which may also be seen to be Cleer's by the app) which is in the app
2. SoundID Music Apps beta, which appears to be using similar Android technolgy to Wavelet to capture the audio routing (was released days ago). This could be causing the weirdness since it is always in the audio path

If you are on Android,  are using Music Apps beta then you should be able to tell the difference if you run say VLC or Tidal versus Spotify. If Spotify sounds better then SoundID is using Music Apps Beta.
If you are on iOS or Android then only the Mono TWS should be SoundID changed all the time
If you are on Android and using something other than the Mono TWS e.g. Jabra 75 and using Music Apps Beta then Spotify should be SoundID played.
I think that what SoundID does for Mono TWS is load the DSP in the Qualcomm 5124 with the SoundID profile given Sonarworks have already calibrated the headphone, or rather I hope that's the case.

It could be that the Cleer and Mono are so close that SoundID can't tell the difference and so you can get (1) using Cleer as well as Mono.


----------



## tendou

Any recommendations for half in ear tws?


----------



## gocam

Bhelpoori said:


> It is confusing because this is all so new and because it is unknown what SoundID actually does.
> 
> SoundID Listen app used to only do the testing, build a profile, and store it in the cloud. It didn't play at all, except for a sample. The player was only on Mac/PC and only with the supported headphones on the list linked above. SoundID off on Mac compared to play direct, with volume compensation, appears to be the same as without SoundID though caveats apply (no quantitative data and tested it ages ago)
> 
> ...



This is very helpful information, thankyou! Tidal ( which the app does not support )vs spotify with soundID on sounds very comparable. Vs spotify with soundID toggled off, the latter sounds weak. Disable soundID and the signatures sound comparable again. Very odd. Interesting you mention wavelet, I think I noticed similar there also. I wonder if the mere presence of the app in the audio capture pipeline simply affects sound, period, regardless if whether processing is enabled? Curious if anyone else here wants to give it a try?


G


----------



## Caipirina

tendou said:


> Any recommendations for half in ear tws?


Sabbat X12 Pro and /or Ultra 
Best buds for running IMHO. Great sound, can still hear the environment and NO runner’s thud


----------



## webvan (Nov 10, 2020)

Yep, best possible TWEs for runners ! Be careful if you add foam covers like many of us have done here to improve comfort and bass response though, mine got drenched this summer and damaged one of the charging contacts. I managed to salvage it but it's a bit recessed now and charging requires some attention. Fortunately I have a back up pair !

EDIT - unfortuately the case of the V2s (USB-C charger) is not compatible with the V1s, the magnets "push them out".


----------



## regancipher

rattlingblanketwoman said:


> Not a comment on its overall SQ (which perhaps just as a matter of taste, didn't blow me away) but seeing as it's one of its listed features I have this feedback about the FiiL T1 XS: The transparency mode is useless for its intended purpose.
> 
> I couldn't tell if it was 'on' apart from trebly sounds only (clinks and clanks) being amplified and bursting through what I was listening to.
> Hearing what someone in the same room is saying to you? Not a chance, anything not distinctly high pitched or the kind of thing that usually gets through your isolation is locked out. They advertise it as being a way to have important spoken announcements piped through, this was not the case for me.
> ...



I half agree. The seal is so tight it does diminish the efficacy of transparency mode. It is far better on the T1 Pro because the driver housings sit away from the ear canal (contrary to FIIL's instructions) 

I agree the buttons aren't especially intuitive or responsive. A guy contacted me on instagram mentioning he couldn't get voice assistant to work at all. 

Sound quality on the T1XS I found to be great but you had to position them perfectly. 

After a couple of months of owning both the T1XS and the Pro, the Pro is some way ahead for me.


----------



## regancipher

gocam said:


> Sidenote - I have the Cleer Ally Pluses - if you are on android you can actually download the SoundID app right now and they have support for the Cleers, so not sure if the Mono's offer anything more ? ( https://www.sonarworks.com/soundid/supported-headphones -- see if your TWS is on there, I also notice Klipsch, 1MORE, Edifer etc) --- supported apps here : https://support.sonarworks.com/hc/e...alization-for-most-popular-Android-music-apps - alas no Tidal yet
> 
> I have to say though, listening with Spotify - when one listens to spotify WITHOUT soundID installed the music sounds a certain way. Once you install and calibrate the soundID app to your liking, it all feels very impressive, then you listen to the same track again when you toggle soundID off it is a TOTALLY different sound, much different from what Spotify sounded like prior to soundID's installation. Then you toggle soundID on and lo and behold it sounds better but this all very suspicious as the A/B is no longer between soundID and vanilla spotify, but between soundID and....something else that sounds obviously worse. Give it a try and let us know what you find if you feel likewise inclined ? If you force stop both spotify and soundID, then relaunch spotify you'll get back your original vanilla sound.
> 
> This makes it all very difficult to work out what it is doing relative to an app's original sound!


3 minutes ago I had no idea what SoundID was. 

Now I feel like I'm missing out because none of my buds are on the supported list!


----------



## jant71

webvan said:


> Yep, best possible TWEs for runners ! Be careful if you add foam covers like many of us have done here to improve comfort and bass response though, mine got drenched this summer and damaged one of the charging contacts. I managed to salvage it but it's a bit recessed now and charging requires some attention. Fortunately I have a back up pair !
> 
> EDIT - unfortuately the case of the V2s (USB-C charger) is not compatible with the V1s, the magnets "push them out".



Same here with the Cleer Goal. Comfort isn't any better with foams but I need to seal in more bass.


----------



## Bhelpoori

regancipher said:


> 3 minutes ago I had no idea what SoundID was.
> 
> Now I feel like I'm missing out because none of my buds are on the supported list!


The supported list don't contain many buds because the main product, of which SoundID is an offshoot, is for mixing for making music rather than reproduction.


----------



## Bhelpoori

gocam said:


> This is very helpful information, thankyou! Tidal ( which the app does not support )vs spotify with soundID on sounds very comparable. Vs spotify with soundID toggled off, the latter sounds weak. Disable soundID and the signatures sound comparable again. Very odd. Interesting you mention wavelet, I think I noticed similar there also. I wonder if the mere presence of the app in the audio capture pipeline simply affects sound, period, regardless if whether processing is enabled? Curious if anyone else here wants to give it a try?
> 
> 
> G


I took a look at how Wavelet works and assume that SoundID Music works the same way. If it does then it hooks into the audio pipeline for every app that allows it to, so just having it installed could make a sonic difference. I reckon this is just a bug though as I'm sure you can do it without affecting the audio other than adding some latency.


----------



## hongky

Which is better between Tronsmart Apollo Bold or Fiil T1 Pro ?
T1 Pro $10 cheaper
Thanks


----------



## regancipher

Anyone done any 11.11 shopping? 

I've picked up the QCY t10 and Boya BY-AP4 so far, big reductions on the Tinhifi tws2000, most of the Edifier, Sabbat, TRN and Mifo stuff too


----------



## Cerebro

Anyone here who knows the differences between the Sabat x12 ultras with the camo colorschemes and the other version with the different stone looks and black with white specks? It seems the camo version is almost half the price of the other version but I can’t find any spec differences.


----------



## Caipirina (Nov 11, 2020)

regancipher said:


> Anyone done any 11.11 shopping?


thanks to COVID messing up the island mail system and lots of mail from China getting lost, AliExpress sellers only use expensive shipping options now. So, I am out this year





And those are the sellers still willing to send. A lot of stuff on my wishlist says ‘does not ship to your location’ , those searches won’t even come up anymore


----------



## jlcsoft

regancipher said:


> FIIL released 4.0.2 apk this week....still no T1 Pro support


Do you have a review of the t1 pro?


----------



## Mouseman

Caipirina said:


> thanks to COVID messing up the island mail system and lots of mail from China getting lost, AliExpress sellers only use expensive shipping options now. So, I am out this year
> 
> 
> And those are the sellers still willing to send. A lot of stuff on my wishlist says ‘does not ship to your location’ , those searches won’t even come up anymore


I've had one seller resend a package 3 times now and "stealth" extend the guarantee time, still don't have it. But yet I've had some things get here in less than a month. It's a total crapshoot. But yeah, $142 shipping is going to turn a lot of people. I didn't see many deals that were good enough to tempt me, but I guess I'll look again.


----------



## gocam

Bhelpoori said:


> I took a look at how Wavelet works and assume that SoundID Music works the same way. If it does then it hooks into the audio pipeline for every app that allows it to, so just having it installed could make a sonic difference. I reckon this is just a bug though as I'm sure you can do it without affecting the audio other than adding some latency.



Hmm - I posted my observations and comments on their community forum and the question seems to have been deleted. Most strange. Maybe I'll see if there is a way to report this as a bug instead ?


----------



## regancipher

jlcsoft said:


> Do you have a review of the t1 pro?


Yes I reviewed a while ago, click on my profile and head gear reviews. They're probably my favourite earbuds at the moment


----------



## Bhelpoori

gocam said:


> Hmm - I posted my observations and comments on their community forum and the question seems to have been deleted. Most strange. Maybe I'll see if there is a way to report this as a bug instead ?


Never had any success in the forum either. I’ve sent them a support request at: https://support.sonarworks.com/hc/en-us/requests/new 

The reply can be slow but has mostly been helpful.


----------



## regancipher

Mouseman said:


> I've had one seller resend a package 3 times now and "stealth" extend the guarantee time, still don't have it. But yet I've had some things get here in less than a month. It's a total crapshoot. But yeah, $142 shipping is going to turn a lot of people. I didn't see many deals that were good enough to tempt me, but I guess I'll look again.


Same for me. I've been waiting for the kz sa08 longer than any mid covid deliveries. 

If anyone wants anything desperately I'm happy to send on from UK


----------



## d3myz

regancipher said:


> Yes I reviewed a while ago, click on my profile and head gear reviews. They're probably my favourite earbuds at the moment


I really like mine, despite the fact that I can't use the volume control on them.  . I have ios and There's no support in the app, so all I can do is Play/Pause and use ANC/OFF/Ambient modes. They also act really weird on skype calls and intermittently shut off. I've noticed some weird play/pause issues with my audiobooks when switching on/off ANC and Ambient modes. I'm sure the app will fix this, but I'm getting tired of waiting.


----------



## regancipher

d3myz said:


> I really like mine, despite the fact that I can't use the volume control on them.  . I have ios and There's no support in the app, so all I can do is Play/Pause and use ANC/OFF/Ambient modes. They also act really weird on skype calls and intermittently shut off. I've noticed some weird play/pause issues with my audiobooks when switching on/off ANC and Ambient modes. I'm sure the app will fix this, but I'm getting tired of waiting.



Ah yeah you just need to set them up on the android Chinese app to switch the controls. If you need the Apk hit me up, I'm hosting them while fiil work on their website 

Haven't noticed the other issues you mentioned though, and I mainly use them for audio books. Although I'm back to the whizzer e3 again now, I have no idea why they keep drawing me back in...they're so comfy though!


----------



## d3myz

regancipher said:


> Ah yeah you just need to set them up on the android Chinese app to switch the controls. If you need the Apk hit me up, I'm hosting them while fiil work on their website
> 
> Haven't noticed the other issues you mentioned though, and I mainly use them for audio books. Although I'm back to the whizzer e3 again now, I have no idea why they keep drawing me back in...they're so comfy though!


Unfortunately I don't own an android device other than my fire TV . I'll have to see if I know anyone that has one I can borrow.


----------



## assassin10000

Cerebro said:


> Anyone here who knows the differences between the Sabat x12 ultras with the camo colorschemes and the other version with the different stone looks and black with white specks? It seems the camo version is almost half the price of the other version but I can’t find any spec differences.



I haven't heard them, but spec wise they are the same. IIRC the new colors after the camo (marble series & starry sky) are the same as the camo. Those all use the same Qualcomm chipset.


----------



## Caipirina

regancipher said:


> Same for me. I've been waiting for the kz sa08 longer than any mid covid deliveries.
> 
> If anyone wants anything desperately I'm happy to send on from UK


Great, now I want the SA08 too  
Found one seller who ships for 27$ 

but do I really need yet another KZ TWS in my life!


----------



## Tronsmart Official

Dear all fans,
Apollo Bold and Onyx Ace is doing promotion:
89.9USD for Apollo Bold!
19.79 USD for Onyx Ace! 
Do not miss the chance!


----------



## helmutcheese

Amazon Lightening Deal about to end in 19hrs.



Price:£119.99Deal Price:£59.49 _ FREE One-Day_You Save:£60.50 (50%)


Jays True Wireless Bluetooth Headphones - m-Seven: Amazon.co.uk: Electronics 

Not my choice as only SBC/ACC but 9.5 hours per charge is good..


----------



## dj24 (Nov 11, 2020)

Instead of dealing with those exorbitant Ali shipping costs, I ordered the Jabra Manufacturer refurbished Elite Active 75t's for a very reasonable $100 from target and just got them earlier today.  I stand by my opinion that the bass compared to the regular 75ts sounds better and not as overpowering.  On the downside, they don't get as loud as they used to when I first tried them out a few months ago.  Probably has something to do with the constant firmware updates that Jabra diligently puts out..

I'm still researching all the issues with my Jabber work calls on my Windows 10 computer and feel that I'm getting close to figuring it out.  I'll post an update when I do so.

Edit:  Here's the target link for the Actives for anyone that might be thinking about picking them up..


----------



## wolf69

Hi,

i’m looking for buds for my wife.
Me, i have the 75t and waiting for my 85t i got for a really good deal.

my wife doesn’t need high end buds, just some casual buds to use from time to time while commuting.

so my budget is around 50$, requirement are:
- sound « ok » (for this budget)
- compact charging case (like my jabra if possible)
- compact buds, no bose nor sony wh3 size or form factor)

additionnal potential functionality:
- an app
- multipoint


I was looking at the Earfun Air that has good reviews but not sure if they are honest reviews and not sponsored reviews...

thanks a lot


----------



## moondowner

wolf69 said:


> Hi,
> 
> i’m looking for buds for my wife.
> Me, i have the 75t and waiting for my 85t i got for a really good deal.
> ...



Just ordered the Fiil T1 Lite for the gym, may fit your case too.

For 40-50$ you get IPX7, 7hr continuous operation, 32hrs with the case, usb-c charging port, compact buds and case.


----------



## varta

For y'all who have the Fiil T1 Pro, how much did you pay for it? I can see it currently for $70 and thinking if it's worth it, as in regancipher's review he mentioned the price of $60, so I guess that DORKIN store is just faking the "deal"


----------



## Toom

wolf69 said:


> Hi,
> 
> i’m looking for buds for my wife.
> Me, i have the 75t and waiting for my 85t i got for a really good deal.
> ...



Give her your 75ts?


----------



## d3myz

varta said:


> For y'all who have the Fiil T1 Pro, how much did you pay for it? I can see it currently for $70 and thinking if it's worth it, as in regancipher's review he mentioned the price of $60, so I guess that DORKIN store is just faking the "deal"


I paid $64 for mine on Ali. I like the pro's better than the T1 and T1xs. They also fit much better.


----------



## varta

So FYI if anyone is still deciding, I found the T1 Pros for $65 from Xiao-mi Ecological Chain Store and you can get an additional $7 off with promo code SINGLEDAY7. Happy shopping


----------



## OklahKekW

Fiil T1XS (Xiaomi)
With current 11/11 discount the price is $49 dollar.
(its the best value TWS for under $50* IF *it fits you)

*Fiil T1XS specs: *

IPX5 waterproof rating (rain and sweat resistant)
Bluetooth 5.0 with AAC codec
6 hours listening on a full charge
Charging case can charge earpieces fully 3 times
Case measures 65 mm x 30 mm x 25 mm
App with multiple equalizers
Comes with 4 sizes ear tips, 3 sizes sport-wings and USB-C cable


----------



## webvan

So my gold 75ts came in ! Nice to have some Jabras again after the Sports and 65ts that I once had and sold. I upgraded the fw of course to get the ANC feature, that was quite a trek with 3 starts required but no hiccups. The interface of the app is very sleek and the buttons have all the required features. I particularly like the option to stop music automatically when using "Hear Through", like on the Echo Buds while it's missing on the Bose. The three mode toggling ANC ON/OFF/Hear-Through, is perfect, ANC OFF is missing on the Echo Buds (only via the app or Alexa) and the Bose.
The BT auto-switching between PC and Phone is great, they should all have that.
The ANC is ok, not great, passive+active is pretty close to the "best in class" (IMHO) Echo Buds but there is more "white noise". The customization of the ANC is unique but at the end of the day it would be better to have a better performing ANC. SQ is ok, again not great, it's a bit "shrill", like the sound you get with IEMs fitted with the CP360. The bass does kick in nicely.
They might be keepers for their convenience


----------



## rattlingblanketwoman

OklahKekW said:


> Fiil T1XS (Xiaomi)
> With current 11/11 discount the price is $49 dollar.
> (its the best value TWS for under $50* IF *it fits you)
> 
> ...



If you're in the US, Amazon (check through multiple listings at different prices) has them new for $59.99 with a 12% off coupon. When I bought them a couple weeks back it was a coupon with a speciic dollar amount, and I ended up paying $50 with no waiting for a delivery from China.

I've been shocked this 11.11 "sale" how many IEMs are more or less the same price from Amazon, but with easy returns and quick shipping. A lot of the MSRP listed during this sale have been false doubles of the actual martket rate to make the sales look better - when they are only saving you $3 to add a 2-4 week wait.

Three are some genuine deals, but I'm honestly disappointed if this was meant to be the equivalent of Black Friday.

What I'm saying holds true for the US at least, probably not so much in other countries so there is that going for them.


----------



## PixelSquish

You think Sennheiser is holding back on battery life to make the next iteration seem like more of an upgrade? Was reading reviews of other buds and they just seem to get more battery life, with ANC on even?


----------



## howdy

I've read that websites are predicting the new Sony XM4 "should" have LDAC, amongst a lot of other new features. Should be out sometime in January. I'll wait to see what these will be like. Still enjoying my XM3s.


----------



## jant71

howdy said:


> I've read that websites are predicting the new Sony XM4 "should" have LDAC, amongst a lot of other new features. Should be out sometime in January. I'll wait to see what these will be like. Still enjoying my XM3s.



I'll believe it when I see it. The lower LDAC 330 bitrate does not count.


----------



## jasonb

jant71 said:


> I'll believe it when I see it. The lower LDAC 330 bitrate does not count.



AptxHD would just be nice as well. AptxHD would be better than LDAC at only 330.


----------



## jant71 (Nov 13, 2020)

The first JVC SQ based true wireless released under the Victor name. https://translate.google.com/transl...hones/wireless/ha-fx100t/&prev=search&pto=aue

" Victor brand's first completely wireless earphone, and at the same time, a model bearing "Tuned by VICTOR STUDIO", which is a proof that the engineers of Victor Studio, a music studio involved in the creation of works by many artists, supervised the sound quality. .. By injecting the knowledge of studio engineers into the sound design technology of JVC, it is appealing that "good sound recognized by professionals" has been realized.   ...we have introduced our own acoustic design technology to the housing structure to improve sound quality. By providing a space for sound on the back of the driver unit, it is said that a wide range of sound has been realized despite its small size.

BT5.1 Class 1, SBC/AAC/AptX, true wireless stereo, 8/28 hour battery, IPX4, ambient/talk through, high performance LDS antenna. Comes with Spiral Dots and a new Spiral Dot SF will be released which are said to be the "best match upgrade for this model". Though, of course, they should include it. Price converts to a bit below $150 at $143.













I'll chime in since I have the only $150 JVC true wireless out now. It is right at the NF Audio NA2 to NM2 level of SQ. A bit warmer than the NM2 but a smidge less resolution. With aptx right in between the two for signature and SQ. Touch control is excellent, ambient is fine but my model needs better mics. Also Class 1 LDS the reception and range are excellent until at over 30 feet you turn sideways and you can get a drop on one side that is blocked. I'd assume all the other stuff is the same as far as mics and touch but perhaps the 5.1 and new antenna are even better but still I had no issue till past 10M.


----------



## bronco1015

The 85T arrived Tuesday. I haven't gotten much of a chance to listen to them yet, but my impressions are without eq. i'm planning on doing that soon. ANC is pretty impressive. Definitely better than the MTW2, but initially i'm gonna say a hair behind the Technics AZ70. The difference between those 2 it seems is that the 85T blocks mid and high freq noises better than the AZ70, with the AZ70 doing better on the low end. On saturday i got an offer to review Bose QC earbuds and Sport models. The QC arrived last night. Initially they do have the best ANC and a really clean sound. Also surprised at the soundstage they have. Same with the 85T as well. The mids on the 85T especially lower mids seem pulled back by a good margin on default eq, and higher mids have a nice sound but seem a bit 1 dimentional compared to models like the AZ70, Bose QC earbuds, MTW 1 and 2, nuarl N6P and this last one is after eq, the JLab Epic Air Sport ANC. The bass on default 85T sounds quality. Treble in default is at a pretty low level i'd say, but they certainly aren't muddy in default sound. I'm gonna eq these now. I think they have a lot of potential. They also connect super fast.
The mids on the QC earbuds feel consistent throughout and the treble is also tuned well imo. not to rolled off, and not over done either. on the 30-40 mins i've had with them. mid bass seems a bit sloppy at times, but bass in general has pretty good texture. The QC earbuds just have a relaxed sound that seems to be up for any challenge. I'm really digging them. And they're super comfortable to wear.


----------



## webvan

Be careful to contextualize "Best ANC" because it doesn't mean much on its own, you could have the "best ANC" but not the "best overall (PNC+ANC) isolation", which is what matters at the end of the day. Case in point, the APP/QCB (I haven't heard the 85T) may have the "Best ANC" in the sense that they have the biggest "wow factor" (as per iJustine) when ANC is activated but the Echo Buds/MTW2/75Ts have the better overall (PNC+ANC) isolation thanks to their superiorir passive isolation, suitably complemented by the ANC (that has less of a "wow factor).


----------



## myltz400

webvan said:


> Be careful to contextualize "Best ANC" because it doesn't mean much on its own, you could have the "best ANC" but not the "best overall (PNC+ANC) isolation", which is what matters at the end of the day. Case in point, the APP/QCB (I haven't heard the 85T) may have the "Best ANC" in the sense that they have the biggest "wow factor" (as per iJustine) when ANC is activated but the Echo Buds/MTW2/75Ts have the better overall (PNC+ANC) isolation thanks to their superiorir passive isolation, suitably complemented by the ANC (that has less of a "wow factor).


IMHO I think everyone here can agree that sound quality is very subjective, I hope we can all realize that ANC is too.  I have learned to completely disregard most opinions of ANC, especially from office or home users "I couldn't hear the AC unit".  How can you tell anything about the noise cancelling properties without noise?  Like being on a plane, on a  mower, or at least mass transit.

Some models like APP and Sony WF-1000XM3 make it difficult to just switch between ANC off And ANC on.  ALL models can sound impressive by switching between pass through and ANC on.

The Echo Buds perform well for me on an airplane, for reference the 85ts were better all the way around.  I found the 75ts good but while using the tunable part of the ANC app I could not find a setting that would cancel everything, i.e. they would drown out either lows or highs but not both.  I returned the 85ts for different reasons but in my brief experience with them they were better than APP, 75t, and Echo Buds.

I also really like the Galaxy Beans, I know its not a popular opinion but the entire form factor and sound has made them my daily divers. Not recommending them for noisy environments but the open ear ANC is pretty impressive to me.  I bring them up because I have high hopes for a Buds version with ANC.


----------



## webvan

It's not difficult to switch between ANC ON and OFF on the APP of XM3s, it's just a tap away ? It is on the Echo Buds (app or Alexa) and it's impossible on the QCB. I'd say that ANC is little less subjective than SQ and it's easy enough to blast some YT cabin or London underground noise (with headphones over the buds it's even better) if someone wants to provide useful feedback to readers.
And yes no one wants to be comparing Heart-Through and ANC !
I guess my point was more that some TWEs like the APPs and QCBs and the 85t apparently have an "open" design so turning on the ANC will have a much bigger impact than on closed designs like the Echo Buds, MTW2s or 75Ts, but what matters is the overall isolation.


----------



## myltz400

That's my point, for me blasting subway sounds over the home hi fi doesn't work. It's not emersive enough  I have to be in the environment.


----------



## webvan

Got any headphones ?


----------



## myltz400

I do have over the ear cans, I also have hearing loss.  That's why ANC is subjective.  😉


----------



## Caipirina

webvan said:


> So my gold 75ts came in ! Nice to have some Jabras again after the Sports and 65ts that I once had and sold. I upgraded the fw of course to get the ANC feature, that was quite a trek with 3 starts required but no hiccups. The interface of the app is very sleek and the buttons have all the required features. I particularly like the option to stop music automatically when using "Hear Through", like on the Echo Buds while it's missing on the Bose. The three mode toggling ANC ON/OFF/Hear-Through, is perfect, ANC OFF is missing on the Echo Buds (only via the app or Alexa) and the Bose.
> The BT auto-switching between PC and Phone is great, they should all have that.
> The ANC is ok, not great, passive+active is pretty close to the "best in class" (IMHO) Echo Buds but there is more "white noise". The customization of the ANC is unique but at the end of the day it would be better to have a better performing ANC. SQ is ok, again not great, it's a bit "shrill", like the sound you get with IEMs fitted with the CP360. The bass does kick in nicely.
> They might be keepers for their convenience


What’s your verdict on the Echo buds for running? I recall you mentioned them from time to time and I only half read, since they seemed out of reach. But it appears I could get them locally for ~215us$
Is it worth it?


----------



## jkjk123

jant71 said:


> The first JVC SQ based true wireless released under the Victor name. https://translate.google.com/transl...hones/wireless/ha-fx100t/&prev=search&pto=aue
> 
> " Victor brand's first completely wireless earphone, and at the same time, a model bearing "Tuned by VICTOR STUDIO", which is a proof that the engineers of Victor Studio, a music studio involved in the creation of works by many artists, supervised the sound quality. .. By injecting the knowledge of studio engineers into the sound design technology of JVC, it is appealing that "good sound recognized by professionals" has been realized.   ...we have introduced our own acoustic design technology to the housing structure to improve sound quality. By providing a space for sound on the back of the driver unit, it is said that a wide range of sound has been realized despite its small size.
> 
> ...



Which JVC true wireless model do you have right now?


----------



## jant71

jkjk123 said:


> Which JVC true wireless model do you have right now?



I have the AE5T which is just out now in the US for $149 but I got them from Amazon Japan when they first came out for $129. According to my Amazon orders tab they were delivered on June 17th so it is gonna be 5 months in a few days and they haven't let me down. Both use Qualcomm with true wireless stereo have aptX and are Class 1. I'd assume a better version driver and the tuning they do but I would like to have seen the bass boost function carried over. Good to have and they even have it in the bass serious flat/bass tuning so they appeal to more people and for the sport model it comes in handy if you want more bass or are using the ambient tips which drops the bass down. Would have been nice to have it since it seems to be well done and not overdone or a mudfest.

JVC is coming along fairly slow. Mine is their best except now if you factor in the XC90BT but that is the XX series. Mine is the runners earphone and they have a new ANC model but only $99. This Victor model is also coming along slow being $149-ish also and being a 100 model. They haven't released anything above $200 yet or real promise of SQ till this one but still nothing amazing yet. They did not do the AT and kinda flop with their first CKR7TW and ANC300 models working out kinks with $250 and $300 that were consumer testers. This victor has one job that is to sound good and has to compete with the likes of the Noble Falcon 2 and CX400BT(sale is the $149 price) and latest version triple hybrid from Aviot which is also the same price.


----------



## azuha

Hi, i'm from Turkey, so my options are limited to say the least. 
Got the L2P but i returned them. Sound was awful, no matter the EQ or HearID, couldn't make the sound even close to bearable. Both my Meizu EP52 and almost 10 years old Creative EP630 sounded hell of a lot better and louder. I'm looking for a flat and a bit warmish sound. Not so bass heavy, but a bit more pronounced.
What bugs me the most though, most TWS brands don't give the dB value. How loud they can get. 
Why i'm looking for a TWS is to upgrade my fading out Meizu EP52(almost 3 years, battery life is not so great, wear and tear,...etc.) and even Meizu EP52 is NOT loud enough.
Can you fellas please recommend me something that has good sound quality(clear and flat) and can go over 100 dB ?
Thank you all and have a nice day.


----------



## bronco1015

Forgot to mention those Yamaha TW-E7A came in sunday. i lowered my expectations when i saw @erockg's post last week. Unfortunately, they just sound okay. Everything about them is just average in every way. Yamaha should have launched these under the brand name YaMeh.ha.
The build of the iems and case is cheap, the buttons feel cheap, the ANC even with an excellent fit isn't that great, the prompt stops short of saying noise canceling and instead says "noise cancel." if i had just been handed these and asked to guess how much their MSRP was i think i would have guessed $50-$60. Really bummed cause the neckband model i recieved is similarly underwhelming.


----------



## Kalli (Nov 14, 2020)

After testing some IEMs and TWS I came to the conclusion, that I want to connect to multiple devices at a time. So my previous aptX support (as an Android user) requirement doesn't apply anymore, both of that at the same time isn't possible at the moment.

Are there any suggestions about what to buy?
I somehow like the Sennheiser MTW2 and I like the Master & Dynamic MW07+ even more. I'm still looking for something for classical piano mainly.
The Jabra Elite 85t came to my mind, because of their large set of convenience feature and a lot of people seem to rate their sound quite good.

Here are my thoughts on the MW07+ and the MTW2:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/sen...-wireless-2-mtw2.927701/page-10#post-15952590
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/master-dynamic-mw07-plus-impressions.919540/page-5#post-15975150

Thanks in advance.


----------



## snapandslide

Kalli said:


> *After testing some IEMs and TWS I came to the conclusion, that I want to connect to multiple devices at a time. *So my previous aptX support (as an Android user) requirement doesn't apply anymore, both of that at the same time isn't possible at the moment.
> 
> Are there any suggestions about what to buy?
> I somehow like the Sennheiser MTW2 and I like the Master & Dynamic MW07+ even more. I'm still looking for something for classical piano mainly.
> ...



The requirement of connecting to multiple devices is high up on my list whenever I consider my next true wireless (currently have the wf1000xm3). That plus the better codec support are crucial to make the upgrade worthwhile (and the $$$ that it'll cost).

I look forward to seeing what you go for!


----------



## webvan

Caipirina said:


> What’s your verdict on the Echo buds for running? I recall you mentioned them from time to time and I only half read, since they seemed out of reach. But it appears I could get them locally for ~215us$
> Is it worth it?


I wouldn't recommend them for running as they are SUPER isolating, so ideal when not moving if not you will be thumping around like there's no tomorrow  On the flipside they're great for traveling


----------



## regancipher

snapandslide said:


> The requirement of connecting to multiple devices is high up on my list whenever I consider my next true wireless (currently have the wf1000xm3). That plus the better codec support are crucial to make the upgrade worthwhile (and the $$$ that it'll cost).
> 
> I look forward to seeing what you go for!


APP or Jabra are about the only options at the moment


----------



## Kalli

snapandslide said:


> The requirement of connecting to multiple devices is high up on my list whenever I consider my next true wireless (currently have the wf1000xm3). That plus the better codec support are crucial to make the upgrade worthwhile (and the $$$ that it'll cost).
> 
> I look forward to seeing what you go for!


Ye it's really hard. Long term I have really high hopes in the successor of the MW07+. With added multi pairing and an app they would be a beast.


----------



## Kalli

regancipher said:


> APP or Jabra are about the only options at the moment


That's my guess as well. Out of those two the Jabra seem to have the better overall sound, while the APP are more tuned to my liking though. Apart from that I hate Apple too much to buy the APP. 

I'll probably go for the Jabra and hope they're good enough and wait for an upgraded MW07+ or maybe even an MTW2 upgrade.


----------



## webvan

One thing I've just noticed on the 75t and that's quite convenient (can't remember if it was like that on the 65t) is that you can set the volume of the earbuds independently from the smartphone, normally it controls the volume of the phone directly. That's particularly convenient to set the volume on a computer without having to mess with the sliders.


----------



## dweaver

Kalli said:


> After testing some IEMs and TWS I came to the conclusion, that I want to connect to multiple devices at a time. So my previous aptX support (as an Android user) requirement doesn't apply anymore, both of that at the same time isn't possible at the moment.
> 
> Are there any suggestions about what to buy?
> I somehow like the Sennheiser MTW2 and I like the Master & Dynamic MW07+ even more. I'm still looking for something for classical piano mainly.
> ...


If you are willing to wait until December and are a gambling person the Status Between Pro is a multi device option, with triple driver hybrid configuration and most features people seem to want minus 2 things, no app and no ANC. If either of  those features are a must then its not a good fit.


----------



## regancipher

Been suffering with an ear infection on and off for a while so decided to take the recommendation of @Caipirina , @voicemaster etc and give the beans another go. 

Much prefer them this time around. I remember them feeling pretty uncomfortable last time, and they're still not perfect, so I've got some soft covers for the bits that go in your ears on the way which should hopefully solve the issue. Sound is great on the poco x3, not quite so good on the iPhone 8. ANC is barely noticeable, not even sure why they bothered listing it - you can tell there's something there but it's not worth a mention. Sound stage is superb, looking forward to putting them to the pillow test


----------



## Kalli (Nov 14, 2020)

webvan said:


> One thing I've just noticed on the 75t and that's quite convenient (can't remember if it was like that on the 65t) is that you can set the volume of the earbuds independently from the smartphone, normally it controls the volume of the phone directly. That's particularly convenient to set the volume on a computer without having to mess with the sliders.


That's normal I think. On a phone it does match the Bluetooth volume, and on the PC it is independent.



dweaver said:


> If you are willing to wait until December and are a gambling person the Status Between Pro is a multi device option, with triple driver hybrid configuration and most features people seem to want minus 2 things, no app and no ANC. If either of  those features are a must then its not a good fit.


No app is fine, if the initial configurations are good.
Does "no ANC" also mean "no ambient", because ambient mode is a must.

EDIT1: And I don't want to wait. Will go for 2 months of holidays in a few days/weeks.


----------



## snapandslide

regancipher said:


> APP or Jabra are about the only options at the moment



Limited options, but both are absolutely viable - if you're in the market now. But not enough to bother me to upgrade at the moment. I'll wait till the next gen in 2021!


----------



## voicemaster

regancipher said:


> Been suffering with an ear infection on and off for a while so decided to take the recommendation of @Caipirina , @voicemaster etc and give the beans another go.
> 
> Much prefer them this time around. I remember them feeling pretty uncomfortable last time, and they're still not perfect, so I've got some soft covers for the bits that go in your ears on the way which should hopefully solve the issue. Sound is great on the poco x3, not quite so good on the iPhone 8. ANC is barely noticeable, not even sure why they bothered listing it - you can tell there's something there but it's not worth a mention. Sound stage is superb, looking forward to putting them to the pillow test


Yeah, the ANC is there just for the sake of having ANC feature. Still using mine for outside and its been fantastic. Great call quality too.


----------



## webvan

Kalli said:


> That's normal I think. On a phone it does match the Bluetooth volume, and on the PC it is independent.



No like I wrote the 75t let me control the volume independently from the BT volume on my phone.


----------



## bronco1015

Kalli said:


> That's my guess as well. Out of those two the Jabra seem to have the better overall sound, while the APP are more tuned to my liking though. Apart from that I hate Apple too much to buy the APP.
> 
> I'll probably go for the Jabra and hope they're good enough and wait for an upgraded MW07+ or maybe even an MTW2 upgrade.


jabras definitely aren't bad. IF you like the MW07 plus, IIRC it has a similar tuning to the OG MW07, and @hifi80sman has mentioned being able to use them between 2 phones even though it isn't officially supported by M&D. I didn't care much for the sound or build of them, and battery life is pretty low like 3 hours i believe. so if you do go that routte i'd buy them on a bargain. if nothing else, you might be able to get them as a placeholder till something else comes along that supports multipoint and has a sound you might like.


----------



## dweaver (Nov 14, 2020)

Kalli said:


> That's normal I think. On a phone it does match the Bluetooth volume, and on the PC it is independent.
> 
> 
> No app is fine, if the initial configurations are good.
> ...


No anc mean to no active noise cancelling. But it does have ambient mode which I also really want. Noice cancelling is nice but not a requirement for me. I am more interested in Noise cancelling for voice calls which is also important and in that regard the Between Pro is supposed to do that using 2 of the mics. But also hear about waiting sucking. I hoping I to get mine before Christmas since I was 299 on the list. But buying this late in the game I question if you would get it on the same time schedule.

My budget is very tight so I bought mine to save money in hopes it's as good as the more expensive TWS coming out sonically speaking. But that is NOT guaranteed. Where as the reviews and testimonies of people trying the new 85T are real and its available now...


----------



## pholcus1975

Hi all, finally I entered TWS world, even if I always told I would never do.
I choose Cambridge Audio Melomania 1, and so far I'm very pleased soundwise, so much I'm almost not using my wired setup anymore (Plenue M2 , hifiman re600 / Soundmagic e80).
I'm using Android 10 on Sansung S20, aptx codec ,app used Poweramp and UAPP. 
I got a tech question: if I'm playing hires files,  who resamples? The app I'm using, Android itself or the chip inside the earbuds? Thank s


----------



## bronco1015

The Bose Sport earbuds arrived a day early. After a few mins with them, To my ears in this initial listen, they have a bit more bass than the QC earbuds and a hair less treble. Mids do feel a bit more energetic.
The difference in case size between the 2 is massive.
Anyone ever heard or seen these?
https://www.audiofly.com/audiofly-headphones-products/p/aft2
They're coming in for a review on Wednesday.
I know nothing about Audiofly.


----------



## Laethageal

regancipher said:


> Been suffering with an ear infection on and off for a while so decided to take the recommendation of @Caipirina , @voicemaster etc and give the beans another go.
> 
> Much prefer them this time around. I remember them feeling pretty uncomfortable last time, and they're still not perfect, so I've got some soft covers for the bits that go in your ears on the way which should hopefully solve the issue. Sound is great on the poco x3, not quite so good on the iPhone 8. ANC is barely noticeable, not even sure why they bothered listing it - you can tell there's something there but it's not worth a mention. Sound stage is superb, looking forward to putting them to the pillow test



I know this is clearly out of subject, but I just purchased a Poco X3 NFC for my 13y.o as a Christmas gift. How do you like it?


----------



## chinmie (Nov 15, 2020)

i returned my  troubled Trueair2, but the seller decided to refund me instead of sending a new unit, so i purchased the Tronsmart Onyx Ace instead, just to compare it and settle my curiosity.

soundwise, i prefer the Onyx Ace more to the Trueair2. the Ace sounds more organic, and the sound is like coming out of traditional speakers, while the Trueair2 sounded more "digital" and processed, and more in your head, closer to IEMs while the Ace is closer to earbuds/on ear headphones in staging. the Trueair2 might sounded more exciting at first, but fatigued my ears quickly, while the Ace (similar to the Sabbat) would be a more pleasant to listen on long sessions.

the Ace also have random disconnect/stutters, but much less so than the Trueair2, which even touching the stems a bit to adjust them would kill the signal.. might be the Trueair2 positions their antenna further down the stems compared to the Ace. Scarbir recently reviewed the Trueair2 and apparently has the same experience.

I'm using older phones though, maybe with newer qualcomm phones that support TWS+ connections both of them would be more stable.


----------



## regancipher

Laethageal said:


> I know this is clearly out of subject, but I just purchased a Poco X3 NFC for my 13y.o as a Christmas gift. How do you like it?


It's pretty good actually, but I'm not really up to speed on phones. I've got by with a work phone only for the last 15 years but now we have to have certificates on them I decided to start migrating everything over to a separate handset. It runs lineage 18 seamlessly and battery life is excellent. 

Buds live passed the pillow test, stayed in over night and no pressure on the ear canals. Sadly the cartilage is a bit sore, hopefully the socks for them will lessen the ache.


----------



## Kalli

webvan said:


> No like I wrote the 75t let me control the volume independently from the BT volume on my phone.


Oh, that's weird. 



bronco1015 said:


> jabras definitely aren't bad. IF you like the MW07 plus, IIRC it has a similar tuning to the OG MW07, and @hifi80sman has mentioned being able to use them between 2 phones even though it isn't officially supported by M&D. I didn't care much for the sound or build of them, and battery life is pretty low like 3 hours i believe. so if you do go that routte i'd buy them on a bargain. if nothing else, you might be able to get them as a placeholder till something else comes along that supports multipoint and has a sound you might like.


Thanks for pointing that out. Actually I had the MW07+ connected L and R to the PC and one of them to my phone once. I didn't dive into that deeper, but maybe I'll. 



dweaver said:


> No anc mean to no active noise cancelling. But it does have ambient mode which I also really want. Noice cancelling is nice but not a requirement for me. I am more interested in Noise cancelling for voice calls which is also important and in that regard the Between Pro is supposed to do that using 2 of the mics. But also hear about waiting sucking. I hoping I to get mine before Christmas since I was 299 on the list. But buying this late in the game I question if you would get it on the same time schedule.
> 
> My budget is very tight so I bought mine to save money in hopes it's as good as the more expensive TWS coming out sonically speaking. But that is NOT guaranteed. Where as the reviews and testimonies of people trying the new 85T are real and its available now...


Ye, I cannot wait that long at the moment. I will try the 85t and hope they're good enough for placeholders.


----------



## SilverEars (Nov 15, 2020)

bronco1015 said:


> The Bose Sport earbuds arrived a day early. After a few mins with them, To my ears in this initial listen, they have a bit more bass than the QC earbuds and a hair less treble. Mids do feel a bit more energetic.
> The difference in case size between the 2 is massive.
> Anyone ever heard or seen these?
> https://www.audiofly.com/audiofly-headphones-products/p/aft2
> ...


I would dig Bose so much if they come up with small version that fits like Jabra and retains the sound signature of QC buds.  I was so surprised with QC buds sound stage and bass quality.  I generally don't like Bose SQ, but QC was an exception, especially being a TWS.


----------



## Sebulr

Changing the volume independently of the volume, is a developer option on my phone, and is called DVC, direct volume control. It is turned on by default on my phone. I turned it off on my phone as I have a set that are too loud at the phones quietest setting for night time listening. That way I can turn them down further.

On the other hand it might make some tws, too quiet at their loudest settings, as both volume sliders might need turning up, like on a pc, or amplifier. I think that's why it defaults to ON.


----------



## bronco1015

Kalli said:


> Oh, that's weird.
> 
> 
> Thanks for pointing that out. Actually I had the MW07+ connected L and R to the PC and one of them to my phone once. I didn't dive into that deeper, but maybe I'll.
> ...


Rereading my post in your reply, i see i misspoke. What i mean to say is that the OG mw07 might be a good option. I didn't mean the MW07 plus. I compared them since you mentioned liking the MW07 plus.


----------



## bronco1015

SilverEars said:


> I would dig Bose so much if they come up with small version that fits like Jabra and retains the sound signature of QC buds.  I was so surprised with QC buds sound stage and bass quality.  I generally don't like Bose SQ, but QC was an exception, especially being a TWS.


I agree. I am okay with the size only because of the fins and how surprisingly comfortable they are. And as similar as they both sound, i feel like the sound of the QC buds are a little different than the tradditional bose sound i hear in so many products. The Bose house sound is one of many that i've grown to enjoy, but the QC buds really take things up a notch imo.


----------



## Kalli

hifi80sman said:


> You may want to wait for the Master & Dynamic MW07 Plus.  They should be an improvement over the MW07, which has great sound, but 2.5 hours of realistic battery life (maybe close to 3 if you listen at lower volumes).  It also has multipoint, so I can connect to both my phones at the same time (listening on one, receiving calls from the other).  I'd imagine the MW07 Plus will retain multipoint, but that remains to be seen.  It's billed as having far better battery life, BT 5. (vs. 4.2), ANC, and better mics (original only has 1 mic) for calls.
> 
> Also, I really enjoy the WF-1000XM3, which can be EQd to your taste.
> 
> In terms of SQ, I don't think any of the Jabra TWS' come anywhere near the Master & Dynamic or Sony.





bronco1015 said:


> jabras definitely aren't bad. IF you like the MW07 plus, IIRC it has a similar tuning to the OG MW07, and @hifi80sman has mentioned being able to use them between 2 phones even though it isn't officially supported by M&D. I didn't care much for the sound or build of them, and battery life is pretty low like 3 hours i believe. so if you do go that routte i'd buy them on a bargain. if nothing else, you might be able to get them as a placeholder till something else comes along that supports multipoint and has a sound you might like.


Thanks for pointing that out. I tried a bit how the MW07+ work with "multi pairing". I can get them to pair L and R to a separate source device. Then one of the sides connects to the other side (seems to be random, which side does that). So I can listen to stereo with one source device and mono on one earbud from the other source device. Here are the steps to reproduce:

Take both buds out of the case and let them connect to any source device. (as usual)
Disconnect them manually from the source device, by clicking "disconnect" on the source device.
Click "connect" on both source devices for the L/R earbud. (each source device a different one)
Wait until connected and until one earbud connects to the other.
Is there a trick to get both source devices to play stereo sound?
Or did this only work on the (original) MW07?


----------



## heavyharmonies

The era of at least capable budget TWS earbuds appears to have arrived. Lots of Amazon sales right now and some decent tech available under $100.

I bought a bunch of them just to experiment with.. the sheer number of form factors, cases, features from the 8,423 Chinese off-brands is almost overwhelming.

As expected, many of the off-brand/unknown units are crap, worthy of their sub-$30 price points.

One less expensive set that many people like that I absolutely hated was the mpow X3. I don't know whether it's the form factor (external stems), but I did not find them enjoyable at all. I sent those back in short order.

My 3rd place, the mpow m30, on the other hand, are fairly decent at roughly $26. Just a little bit thin when it comes to overall sound especially midrange, compared to my top two. I'll keep them as backup buds.

My top two are the Enacfire E60 ($23) and Fiil T1X ($37) and I go back and forth between the two in terms of likability. 

Fiil T1X:

+ Better sound quality of the two when everything is situated just right
+ App with 15+ EQ profiles
- Finicky as a MOFO when it comes to getting them placed in ear; not as comfortable

Enacfire E60:

+ Aptx support
+ Wireless charging
+ Comfortable and easy to situate

If I could blend these two, I'd be there. I love the overall sound of the Fiil better than the Enacfire, but MAN are the Fiil a pain in the azz to get situated in ear. A little bit off in any way and the sound is dogsh*t... but when they're in there right, it sounds gorgeous. But I feel like I need to be very wary of jostling them out of position. Listening to music with the Fiil becomes a more "managed" process.

For grab-and-go, the Enacfire E60 is a stupidly good value for money. At $23 they're effectively disposable.


----------



## Robius

After buying two really good sounding TWS earphones (Haylou T16 and Fiil T1XS) my tws journey ends here until both phones and tws earphones has bluetooth 5.2 which will support LE audio and new LC3 codec. Please wake me up when this happens.


----------



## caprimulgus (Nov 16, 2020)

Haven't been keeping up with TWS. With how quickly everything is moving in this space, any thoughts on how these older models (discounted) stack up to what's current?

Liberty 2 Pro $107AUD ($77USD) - I think will suit my basshead tastes, but no multipoint or AptX-LL
Sennheiser Momentum True Wireless (MTW1) $149.95 ($109USD) - has multipoint and AptX-LL. Not worried about battery drain issue (can be fixed with magnetic usb-c connector apparently). Was always too expensive for me, but this might be cheap enough for me to consider for their AptX-LL capability (have an AptX-LL transmitter for my Switch), but not cheap enough to buy just for fun!
Either worth a go at these prices, or has everything moved on? (These FIIL models seem to be really popular!)


----------



## Kalli (Nov 16, 2020)

Robius said:


> After buying two really good sounding TWS earphones (Haylou T16 and Fiil T1XS) my tws journey ends here until both phones and tws earphones has bluetooth 5.2 which will support LE audio and new LC3 codec. Please wake me up when this happens.


Do the Haylou can connect to more than one device at the same time?



caprimulgus said:


> Haven't been keeping up with TWS. With how quickly everything is moving in this space, any thoughts on how these older models (discounted) stack up to what's current?
> 
> Liberty 2 Pro $107AUD ($77USD) - I think will suit my basshead tastes, but no multipoint or AptX-LL
> Sennheiser Momentum True Wireless (MTW1) $149.95 ($109USD) - has multipoint and AptX-LL. Not worried about battery drain issue (can be fixed with magnetic usb-c connector apparently). Was always too expensive for me, but this might be cheap enough for me to consider for their AptX-LL capability (have an AptX-LL transmitter for my Switch), but not cheap enough to buy just for fun!
> Either worth a go at these prices, or has everything moved on? (These FIIL models seem to be really popular!)


The MTW1 don't have multipoint I think. The "old" Master&Dynamic MW07 do I think.

EDIT1: The MW07 are on sale for close to 60€ on amazon.de right now in the blue version.


----------



## bronco1015

caprimulgus said:


> Haven't been keeping up with TWS. With how quickly everything is moving in this space, any thoughts on how these older models (discounted) stack up to what's current?
> 
> Liberty 2 Pro $107AUD ($77USD) - I think will suit my basshead tastes, but no multipoint or AptX-LL
> Sennheiser Momentum True Wireless (MTW1) $149.95 ($109USD) - has multipoint and AptX-LL. Not worried about battery drain issue (can be fixed with magnetic usb-c connector apparently). Was always too expensive for me, but this might be cheap enough for me to consider for their AptX-LL capability (have an AptX-LL transmitter for my Switch), but not cheap enough to buy just for fun!
> Either worth a go at these prices, or has everything moved on? (These FIIL models seem to be really popular!)


MTW1 doesn't have multipoint, but for $149 and with aptx ll, i think they're worth a look. They have aged well in the almost 2 years i've had them. That said, the L2P are a really solid twe imo. Don't have them anymore but from my memory i think they also have aged well in the year they've been out. If you consider buying both and wouldn't feel the need to get anything else after they died, i think you'd be set for quite a while. Sure some advancements will be made, but by the time both twe's wore out, you'd likely be looking at options that would be significant upgrades.


----------



## diimaan

Robius said:


> After buying two really good sounding TWS earphones (Haylou T16 and Fiil T1XS) my tws journey ends here until both phones and tws earphones has bluetooth 5.2 which will support LE audio and new LC3 codec. Please wake me up when this happens.



My T16’s are getting disconnected often while I’m on a call or when I’m traveling, especially one of the earbuds! Have you experienced similar things with yours? Good to see a fellow T16 user here 😂


----------



## caprimulgus

Kalli said:


> The MTW1 don't have multipoint I think.





bronco1015 said:


> MTW1 doesn't have multipoint



Ah right, my mistake - I swear when I was looking it up earlier, I saw someone say multipoint had been introduced in an update or something. I must have read wrong!

Or maybe it was just wishful thinking, trying to justify to myself buying both!


----------



## clerkpalmer

RHA is teasing a new TWS release for Thur. Appears to be a new form factor.


----------



## jant71

clerkpalmer said:


> RHA is teasing a new TWS release for Thur. Appears to be a new form factor.



Nice find. Though aren't the ones that tease the ones that disappoint more. The one that have a lot to talk about usually are better. 




Not giving yet another company my email address unless I am registering something I actually bought from them.


----------



## Thesonofkrypton

Hoping for a better fit this time round with RHA, shame their previous truly wireless efforts were hampered by that huge earpiece that never fitted properly. Really enjoyed their wired earphones.


----------



## Ynot1

Tease's problem is setting high expectation before delivering. It's a tough balancing act.
But on a relevant note I saw a youtube vid where Jlab has nearly 14 hours battery life.
Is this the new TWS standard for the holiday season?


----------



## clerkpalmer

jant71 said:


> Nice find. Though aren't the ones that tease the ones that disappoint more. The one that have a lot to talk about usually are better.
> 
> Not giving yet another company my email address unless I am registering something I actually bought from them.



I liked the sound of the originals. But RHA marketed them as a lifestyle product rather than an audiophile product.  Hopefully they shift directions as they do make nice wired headphones.


----------



## jant71

According to Amazon, the Cleer Goal are gonna be $69.99 when they come in stock there. Great price if you want an open style. Only true wireless that can make me jump/fool me like a good wired set not being able to tell some podcasts sounds from real life due to both the open and airy nature but the SQ is excellent even with SBC. Just a chance you might need to add foams for the best seal but they still work fine with the case with foams on. Sound like a good monitor speaker really.


----------



## erockg

Can't wait to try these out: https://www.crutchfield.com/S-LUJOJ...gvSmTBwzpXgOkA2N_cK4CHh7hrFyEmBYaArzbEALw_wcB


----------



## Thesonofkrypton

erockg said:


> Can't wait to try these out: https://www.crutchfield.com/S-LUJOJ...gvSmTBwzpXgOkA2N_cK4CHh7hrFyEmBYaArzbEALw_wcB



First time I've seen these.  I like the design, they look like they'd fit well.


----------



## jant71 (Nov 17, 2020)

Got to know your ears. Those mics might not work for some ears well where they are placed. Though you could go to a bigger size and force them out more but then you have to worry about them staying in if no fin option for these.


----------



## clerkpalmer (Nov 16, 2020)

jant71 said:


> Got to know your ears. Those mics mic not work for some ear well where they are placed. Though you could go to a bigger size and force them out more but then you have to worry about them staying in if no fin option for these.


Wow.  That's a serious premium design.  Can't find any details other than price.


----------



## howdy

clerkpalmer said:


> Wow.  That's a serious premium design.  Can't find any details other than price.


The link above shows all sorts of info on them. They look very interesting.


----------



## chinmie

erockg said:


> Can't wait to try these out: https://www.crutchfield.com/S-LUJOJ...gvSmTBwzpXgOkA2N_cK4CHh7hrFyEmBYaArzbEALw_wcB



4.5 hours per-charge, and 9 hours total with the case... hmmm..


----------



## clerkpalmer

howdy said:


> The link above shows all sorts of info on them. They look very interesting.



Yes they do although i agree that the fit could be dicey without any wings or stabilizers.  That said, B&O makes good stuff so I have high hopes for them.  I also saw them on a European amazon sight so release must be imminent.


----------



## howdy

Does anyone have any connectivity issues with the 85t? Ive been getting a lot of dropout with the 85t but the 75t has been rock solid.


----------



## clerkpalmer

clerkpalmer said:


> Yes they do although i agree that the fit could be dicey without any wings or stabilizers.  That said, B&O makes good stuff so I have high hopes for them.  I also saw them on a European amazon sight so release must be imminent.


Digging further there apparently is a second version called the PI7 that costs over 400 and has hybrid ANC verus the feed forward on the PI5. Also the PI7 is said to support 24 bit audio so possibly AptxHD which is super cool other than those of us with Samsung phones. Also both models were supposed to be released back in September but have been delayed several times (obviously).


----------



## erockg

clerkpalmer said:


> Digging further there apparently is a second version called the PI7 that costs over 400 and has hybrid ANC verus the feed forward on the PI5. Also the PI7 is said to support 24 bit audio so possibly AptxHD which is super cool other than those of us with Samsung phones. Also both models were supposed to be released back in September but have been delayed several times (obviously).


Yeah, saw that too.  They're almost $450.  Eeesh.


----------



## clerkpalmer

erockg said:


> Yeah, saw that too.  They're almost $450.  Eeesh.


Eesh is right. I don't see much of a market there and Aptxhd is a misfire.  Should have gone LDAC at that price.


----------



## erockg

clerkpalmer said:


> Eesh is right. I don't see much of a market there and Aptxhd is a misfire.  Should have gone LDAC at that price.


Totally.  Def not worth the hype or price IMO.  Here's where I read about them: https://www.reddit.com/r/headphones/comments/iuhhh9/bw_pi5_pi7_leak/

B&W do make great premium headphones and I'm really looking forward to taking them for a spin.


----------



## myltz400

howdy said:


> Does anyone have any connectivity issues with the 85t? Ive been getting a lot of dropout with the 85t but the 75t has been rock solid.
> [/QU
> I did not have any connection issues during my short time with 85ts. However I did have a hiss in the right ear piece.


----------



## C_Lindbergh

"the PI7 case doubles as a unique retransmission system, allowing you to connect with any audio source, and retransmit the audio to your PI7s."

Hmm sounds interesting!

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Bowers-Wilkins-Cancelling-headphones-resolution-White/dp/B08H8486Y7


----------



## bronco1015

caprimulgus said:


> Ah right, my mistake - I swear when I was looking it up earlier, I saw someone say multipoint had been introduced in an update or something. I must have read wrong!
> 
> Or maybe it was just wishful thinking, trying to justify to myself buying both!


Do it!


----------



## bronco1015

Ynot1 said:


> Tease's problem is setting high expectation before delivering. It's a tough balancing act.
> But on a relevant note I saw a youtube vid where Jlab has nearly 14 hours battery life.
> Is this the new TWS standard for the holiday season?


They have at least 2 models i've seen that claim on, I have the epic Air Sport ANC and haven't been able to get more than 10.5 hours out of them at about half volume.


----------



## jant71

Huawei Freebuds Pro have multipoint and claim up to 40db with the ANC with one inward mic, two outward mics and one bone conduction sensor. "Dual wind noise reduction structure". ANC AI senses and adjusts to quiet, standard, and ultra noise reduction needs or of course you can switch to your choice. Dual antenna for "360-degree signals". 11mm "ultra-large amplitude" driver. 4.5 hours/ 7 hours ANC off and they have volume swipe, touch and pinch to accomplish every function. Around $200.


----------



## helmutcheese

SoundPEATS Sonic Bluetooth 5.2 True Wireless Earphone CVC 8.0 Noise Cancellation 35 Hours Playtime 







SoundPEATS Sonic Bluetooth 5.2 True Wireless Earphone CVC 8.0 Noise Cancellation 35 Hours Playtime | Shopee Thailand or Ebay.com (not UK)


----------



## helmutcheese

Just ordered them on EBAY.COM (you can haggle a deal), will be good sleepers with that long battery life (esp Sundays). 😁


----------



## jant71

Gamesky likes the JVC XX flagship...


----------



## jkjk123

rhsauer said:


> FYI, the Comply Smartcore tips fit securely on the Jabra 85t (with a little effort), have a waxguard (as do the stock 85t tips), and sound great.  For me, they're a much more comfortable alternative to the stock tips.  I'm hoping that Comply (and Spinfit) will, in some reasonable timeframe, release some tips that are designed for these earphones.



Hi there, which Comply Smartcore model were you able to fit on the 85ts? I'm trying to fit the ones for the Sonys onto the 85ts and am unable to do so (the core does not stretch much). Thanks


----------



## Caipirina

webvan said:


> I wouldn't recommend them for running as they are SUPER isolating, so ideal when not moving if not you will be thumping around like there's no tomorrow  On the flipside they're great for traveling



Yeah ... traveling ... that's not going to happen any time soon


----------



## Kalli

Any idea what kind of sensor all those TWS IEMs are using to make the auto-pause/resume feature happen?
I tried to "deactivate" it on my MW07, because they don't have an app and I don't like that feature. I used a black tape, but it didn't work. I thought it is an optical sensor, so I'm pretty confused ...


----------



## Caipirina

Has anyone come across a comparison between the New Bose Sportbuds and the old Soundsport Free? I am seeing them being sold on amazon.de for 114€ and i really enjoy those, already have 2 pairs, one died (bought used) and the other has some charging irregularietes ... but the fit and the sound are fantastic and very mild thumb when running ... so, I might spring for a 3rd pair, this time in orange


----------



## TK33

Kalli said:


> Any idea what kind of sensor all those TWS IEMs are using to make the auto-pause/resume feature happen?
> I tried to "deactivate" it on my MW07, because they don't have an app and I don't like that feature. I used a black tape, but it didn't work. I thought it is an optical sensor, so I'm pretty confused ...


That feature was why I bought the Go and not the Plus model.


----------



## hifi80sman

Caipirina said:


> Has anyone come across a comparison between the New Bose Sportbuds and the old Soundsport Free? I am seeing them being sold on amazon.de for 114€ and i really enjoy those, already have 2 pairs, one died (bought used) and the other has some charging irregularietes ... but the fit and the sound are fantastic and very mild thumb when running ... so, I might spring for a 3rd pair, this time in orange


They are very similar.  The new Sport Earbuds are basically a refined version, still semi-open, and may sound slightly better (going off memory, don't have the SSF any longer).

Some people say the fit is not as good, but personally, they fit me fine for workouts.


----------



## hifi80sman

C_Lindbergh said:


> "the PI7 case doubles as a unique retransmission system, allowing you to connect with any audio source, and retransmit the audio to your PI7s."
> 
> Hmm sounds interesting!
> 
> https://www.amazon.co.uk/Bowers-Wilkins-Cancelling-headphones-resolution-White/dp/B08H8486Y7


These look REALLY intriguing, especially coming in at a competitive $249.

https://www.crutchfield.com/p_749PI5TWBK/Bowers-Wilkins-PI5-Charcoal.html


----------



## brtalush

https://www.myearfun.com/headphones/earfun-free-pro-anc-true-wireless-earbuds-black
looks very similar to  T1 pro.


----------



## chinmie

Kalli said:


> Any idea what kind of sensor all those TWS IEMs are using to make the auto-pause/resume feature happen?
> I tried to "deactivate" it on my MW07, because they don't have an app and I don't like that feature. I used a black tape, but it didn't work. I thought it is an optical sensor, so I'm pretty confused ...



as far as I know the MW07 uses NFMI for connection between left and right earpiece (someone correct me if I'm wrong), just like the Jabras and Earin. there's no way to turn that off

other TWS like WF1000XM3, Samsung Buds, also chifis like Apollo bold, Haylous and QCYs use infrared proximity sensors.. a simple tape works on them


----------



## VICosPhi

hifi80sman said:


> These look REALLY intriguing, especially coming in at a competitive $249.
> 
> https://www.crutchfield.com/p_749PI5TWBK/Bowers-Wilkins-PI5-Charcoal.html



I would like to compare these with Sennheisers, hope these don't stick out too much though. B&W+App+ANC+Touch controls sound like a winner


----------



## regancipher

Earfun continuing their program of mopping up the best Chi-fi wireless earbuds and OEM'ing them under their brand name:

*https://www.myearfun.com/headphones/earfun-free-pro-anc-true-wireless-earbuds-black

T1 Pro anyone?!*


----------



## Bhelpoori (Nov 19, 2020)

clerkpalmer said:


> I liked the sound of the originals. But RHA marketed them as a lifestyle product rather than an audiophile product.  Hopefully they shift directions as they do make nice wired headphones.


And now we can see what the fuss is about according to the web site:

https://www.rha-audio.com/headphones/wireless/truecontrol-anc

Hear what you want to hear with unprecedented ANC & adjustable ambient modes.
Finest Bluetooth® sound quality, optimised by QualComm® cVc™, aptX™, & AAC.
5 hours of audio per charge, 20 hours total with wireless charging case.
Tune the EQ to your preference with the RHA Connect app for Apple & Android.
Sweatproof and water resistant to IPX4 for active use.
£250 with a current preorder £50 off code. Shipping 4th Dec.

Swipe capacitive controls (Why didn't Bose do this), with volume control but sadly no mute
Comply ear tips in the box
ANC off as well as the normal On/Transparency
EQ looks to be only presets right now
App which also allows you to change the amount of Transparency, Find your buds and firmware update
RHA say "Internal testing against competitor products showed TrueControl ANC to have superior attenuation on average across audible frequencies."
3 year international warranty... something I haven't seen elsewhere


----------



## clerkpalmer

Bhelpoori said:


> And now we can see what the fuss is about according to the web site:
> 
> https://www.rha-audio.com/headphones/wireless/truecontrol-anc
> 
> ...


Thanks. Looks like the US version isn't up yet. Looks like a nice improvement but they are late to the party and aren't bringing anything new to the table.  The B&O looks more interesting to me.  Again very little focus on sq in the marketing materials.


----------



## jant71 (Nov 19, 2020)

A little disappointing the RHA I think. BT 5.0 and only aptX. IPX4 a little low. Battery life average. I know some will hate both you have to tap and hold for ambient and it auto pauses(though I like auto pause but not the hold). Too little focus on the sound quality which makes one apprehensive. $300 list price is just inflated for the discount and after it pays for the 3 year warranty really. Not that I care about 3 year warranty on TWS that most of us are gonna update to new tech and won't be using these for half that span.

Needs to be proven for stability. The ergo shape is nice but more flush for ANC performance and reception issues gives a little pause with no real antenna or mic explanation from them.

Could get the JBL for $199 instead and even be better off? Not sure till these prove themselves.



Gotta worry about the battery master/slave drain I guess with no mention of swapping.

Like @clerkpalmer said about not bringing anything new. Think looks like a Covid delayed thing that in April would look better than it does in December 2020.


----------



## matteventu

jant71 said:


> Gotta worry about the battery master/slave drain I guess with no mention of swapping.
> 
> Like @clerkpalmer said about not bringing anything new. Think looks like a Covid delayed thing that in April would look better than it does in December 2020.



That also very likely depends on the device they are used with. If you use a recent Qualcomm powered smartphone that supports all latest technologies, they probably support TrueWireless Stereo Plus which allows for symmetric connection to the device, avoiding the master-slave type of connection.


----------



## Robius (Nov 19, 2020)

regancipher said:


> Earfun continuing their program of mopping up the best Chi-fi wireless earbuds and OEM'ing them under their brand name:
> 
> *https://www.myearfun.com/headphones/earfun-free-pro-anc-true-wireless-earbuds-black
> 
> T1 Pro anyone?!*


Sweet deal with the %20 off but I can't get to the payment page. There is only save adress button.
Edit: Figured it out. It's on the right side lol.


----------



## trellus

jant71 said:


> JVC does have at times a better street price right off or it certainly will drop pretty soon. I'd like $125 myself but don't blame them. They are competing with Jabra which is $180 and AT had their Sport model at $199 for the sport model. The Sony XB700 is $139 with no ambient, not the fit kit with fins and both types of tips, no aptX, 27 vs. 18 hour total battery life, no bass settings and doesn't even work with the Sony app to do stuff. At what I would expect them to list price it.
> 
> I'm sure that it what the ambient tips are for. These are for "serious" runners so I'm sure they decided to have ambient to talk through and ambient tips to help with footfall noise/bone conduction. They look good for other tips as well...
> 
> Looks like the new tips are based on the normal and previous ones so long core but the outside is shorter so less tips fitting into case shenanigans. You can most likely even step up the isolation further from the stock tips.



These are on Drop right now for $150 -- are these the ones you have, and if so, can you do us a big favor and tell us what you think about them?


----------



## trivik12

brtalush said:


> https://www.myearfun.com/headphones/earfun-free-pro-anc-true-wireless-earbuds-black
> looks very similar to  T1 pro.


Is it as good or better than Fiil T1 pro. That is also at similar price point. Though with coupon earfun free pro is just $48.


----------



## regancipher

trivik12 said:


> Is it as good or better than Fiil T1 pro. That is also at similar price point. Though with coupon earfun free pro is just $48.


Pretty sure it is the T1 Pro


----------



## regancipher

I know FIIL get a lot of love here already, but for those looking to order through Amazon US, big reductions tomorrow:

My review for the T1XS here : (5 stars) 

https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/fi...-wireless-tws-bluetooth-in-ear-earbuds.24631/

Scarbir (5 stars) 

https://www.scarbir.com/tws/fiil-t1xs-review

T1X

1
Get 30% OFF FIIL T1X Earbuds - $34.99, was $49.99
Valid time: Nov 17, 2020 - Nov 22, 2020
Product link: https://t.co/Kf8wjz1nAS 

2
Get 15% OFF FIIL T1X Earbuds - $42.22, was $49.99
Valid time: Nov 27, 2020 6:00 AM PST - Nov 27, 2020 12:00 PM PST
Product link: https://t.co/5M3Q3sSjXf

T1XS

1
Get 20% OFF FIIL T1XS White Earbuds - $47.99, was $59.99
Valid time: Nov 26, 2020 12:00 AM PST - Nov 27, 2020 11:59 PM PST
Product link: https://t.co/zpgtB3Kbbo

2
Get 20% OFF FIIL T1XS Black Earbuds - $47.99, was $59.99
Valid time: Nov 26, 2020 12:00 AM PST - Nov 27, 2020 11:59 PM PST
Product link: https://t.co/hlc0Dg8oSa

3
Get 16% OFF FIIL T1XS Black Earbuds - $49.99, was $59.99
Valid time: Nov 18, 2020 - Nov 22, 2020
Product link: https://t.co/fwDOPpfNDO


----------



## jant71

trellus said:


> These are on Drop right now for $150 -- are these the ones you have, and if so, can you do us a big favor and tell us what you think about them?


You can search earlier in the threads for comments and pics and stuff.

The Drop price is one cent more than the full price and, what, you have to wait a month for them?. I paid $129 for them 5 months ago. They are very reliable, have close to $99 wired SQ, do they job for runners keeping wind and footfall noise at bay very very well. Comfy, easy to fit. Ambient tips and ambient mode. Never let me down. Ambient mode is a bit digital sounding and they don't have the best mics is their downside. Overall signature is for sports but tastefully done. Just enough treble and a small bass boost/focus. Quite balanced with external noise cancelling out a bit of bass. Bass boost dunction is tastefully done so enough to use the ambient tips and restore some of the bass that escapes but not too much where it is boomy or or bad in normal use. maybe like a 5dB boost. Reliable for me no one side has trouble connecting or any other strange behavior or reset ever needed. They have just always worked as they should with good sound, fit, connection and range. For a runner/sports they are worth more and do all their goals well but straight up SQ model they are fine but not great for $150. They sound pretty damn good and take a beating and no worries about weather and are great for sports.


----------



## trellus

jant71 said:


> You can search earlier in the threads for comments and pics and stuff.
> 
> The Drop price is one cent more than the full price and, what, you have to wait a month for them?. I paid $129 for them 5 months ago. They are very reliable, have close to $99 wired SQ, do they job for runners keeping wind and footfall noise at bay very very well. Comfy, easy to fit. Ambient tips and ambient mode. Never let me down. Ambient mode is a bit digital sounding and they don't have the best mics is their downside. Overall signature is for sports but tastefully done. Just enough treble and a small bass boost/focus. Quite balanced with external noise cancelling out a bit of bass. Bass boost dunction is tastefully done so enough to use the ambient tips and restore some of the bass that escapes but not too much where it is boomy or or bad in normal use. maybe like a 5dB boost. Reliable for me no one side has trouble connecting or any other strange behavior or reset ever needed. They have just always worked as they should with good sound, fit, connection and range. For a runner/sports they are worth more and do all their goals well but straight up SQ model they are fine but not great for $150. They sound pretty damn good and take a beating and no worries about weather and are great for sports.



thanks! Rest assured, I did search the threads and found next to nothing, perhaps the posts you are referring to were not tagged with the model number? I found a post with stock pictures and someone (perhaps you) talking about having just ordered them.


----------



## jant71 (Nov 20, 2020)

trellus said:


> thanks! Rest assured, I did search the threads and found next to nothing, perhaps the posts you are referring to were not tagged with the model number? I found a post with stock pictures and someone (perhaps you) talking about having just ordered them.



Yeah tough to find stuff esp. if I didn't want to type out HA-AE5T which I probably didn't  but the quick sum up a couple posts back sums them up. For sports they are worth it but the sound is solid but not the best for $150. Better back in June than now for where they would rank in sound I guess and better for sports as they have ability with some thickness so comparing them out doing sports and a quiet comparison. They sound better in their element. I have been happy with them but again they cost me $129 and months ago. They are still one of the best sports models but rank lower in SQ by now. Thing is also I use them mostly with a Chenfec C56 player clipped on a fence or in a pocket so no aptX with that or TWS+ so 75% of the time I don't get the best sound out of them but it is about sports and being able to run around with just the earphones and no device no keys or anything in the pockets. Tips are nice and good to have in the collection. You can DL the manual on the JVC site. Takes a little getting used to Play/Pause is the left side single touch and right side single touch is talk-through. Always thought that was a good choice since I am holding a racquet in my right hand or dribbling a ball mainly on the right but it is still a hard habit to break wanting to play pause on the left instead of right. 

I just the new JVC Victor label TWS which is supposed to be about the SQ but it also small and barely over 4 grams. I paid $143.50 for them at the release price. Simple and has a few simple jobs. Comfort, connection, and SQ.

Speaking of sports, Nuarl is coming with a sports model, the N6 Sport. Very much Nuarls answer to the JVC Aero model we have been talking about.



N6 driver V3, 3040 chip BT5.2 with TW mirroring, SBC/AAC/aptX/aptX adaptive, IPX7, gaming mode for low latency. "External sound capture mode". 10hours(7 for aptX)/60 total. Comes with ambient and regular eartips. "The sound is tuned exclusively for the beat and inclusion of the music, and the" immersive sound "that can enter the world of content is reproduced."   Price converts to $105.



So, there ya go. about six months and you get the better models coming. Of course in the US the JVC really just came out(though old to me) and this Nualr won't show till next year probably and the ~6 month difference will hold. Just that the US is behind.


----------



## trivik12

regancipher said:


> Pretty sure it is the T1 Pro



So its a rebrand.


----------



## webvan

Rtings have just published their review of the JLab JBuds Air ANC : https://www.rtings.com/headphones/reviews/jlab-audio/jbuds-air-anc-truly-wireless and they don't seem to be too impressed. The ANC results are pretty disappointing for instance.


----------



## erockg

New Earin earbuds on the way!  No pics, but FCC filing:  https://fccid.io/2AEI2EARINA3


----------



## Firevortex

Just an update on the Nuarl N10 Pro. The retailer has sent me a set of foam eartips yesterday (fantastic service). It fixed the bass problem for me. as i mentioned in my previous N10 review that the Nuarl memory foam eartips seems to work best but still lacking bass. The stem of the earbuds is rather short so when pushed in the bass increases. I guess its a seal issue for me. the new tips worked wonders increased the bass by at least 20% very punchy and detailed equal to the N6 Pro very balanced. the best setup for me is earbuds with out the use of rubber fins. 

Not sure what the brand of the eartips are but i've attached some pics comparing it to the factory included tips. the tips seems to be made of harder foam.
Think my TWE journey has come to a stop for now... until maybe LDAC. i've tried quite a lot of TWEs and N10Pro has the best sound quality for me so far.


----------



## Sam L

Jabra 65t owners...

I've been using wavelet quite a bit lately for my earbuds. I decided to pull out my 65t's, which haven't been listened to much after getting the 85t's. The anemic bass on the 65t correct nicely with the following settings:
1. bass boost in the Jabra sounds+ app.
2. use the jabra 65t autoeq settings in wavelet (I use 80% eq strength)
3. turn on bass tuner in wavelet (premium feature. totally worth it) and bump up post gain to your preference. Don't bother with the bass booster in wavelet. It's terrible compared to the bass tuner.

profit!


----------



## Mek82

Hey.

Right now I’m using a rha m650 wireless earbuds.
But I’m considering going true wireless.
But what to buy?
My budget is around $130 

my first thought was rha trueconnect 2. 
which has gottengood review.
But the don’t support aac, and I do have some flac files on my iphone.
But mainly I listen to audiobook and Spotify. So lack of aac is not a dealbreaker as such.

of music I listen to rock and metal. 
heard good things about the lypotek tevi.

what can you guys/girls recommend?


----------



## Darkestred

Mek82 said:


> Hey.
> 
> Right now I’m using a rha m650 wireless earbuds.
> But I’m considering going true wireless.
> ...



I'm not too familiar with the 650 but the trueconnect was nice but the battery life killed it for me.  I also think it has connection issues as i experienced drops when using them.

I personally like the liberty pro 2's for metal and the nuarl 6/6p aren't so bad either.  Lot of choices in that range.  Guess it comes down to pulling the trigger.  Good luck.


----------



## assassin10000

Firevortex said:


> Just an update on the Nuarl N10 Pro. The retailer has sent me a set of foam eartips yesterday (fantastic service). It fixed the bass problem for me. as i mentioned in my previous N10 review that the Nuarl memory foam eartips seems to work best but still lacking bass. The stem of the earbuds is rather short so when pushed in the bass increases. I guess its a seal issue for me. the new tips worked wonders increased the bass by at least 20% very punchy and detailed equal to the N6 Pro very balanced. the best setup for me is earbuds with out the use of rubber fins.
> 
> Not sure what the brand of the eartips are but i've attached some pics comparing it to the factory included tips. the tips seems to be made of harder foam.
> Think my TWE journey has come to a stop for now... until maybe LDAC. i've tried quite a lot of TWEs and N10Pro has the best sound quality for me so far.



The tips with the green silicone bore? Search for Jabra foam tips on AE or available as Misodiko TWS-Pro at 6x the price.

If you want the same tip with slightly different sizing they are also sold as ikko i-planet tips.


----------



## The Apostle

Luchyres said:


> So, in a quick gut comparison, I bought the Active 75t and A/B'ed them over 20 mins in the BestBuy parking lot. (Got them on sale!
> 
> After updating the Active 75t firmware, calling my mom (my fav test subject) and listening to music/playing with the EQ - I came to the conclusion that I vastly prefer the fully sealing 75T immersive feeling than the semi-open 85t. Given the multipoint is there, the ANC and hearthrough (a much better way to introduce outside/ambient noise than the lack of isolation imho), I very quickly realized that even though neither of these are the endgame for me in SQ, I enjoy the bass delivery of the fully sealed 75T more, particularly for bass rumble and extension (after firmware update). The waterproof/exercisability is an added plus.
> 
> ...



I have a pair of 65t and think the 75t may be next.  I don't like what I've read about the 85t and the openness.  My goal is to block out as much otside noise and still be able to turn off hearthrough.  One thing I don't like about my Polys is you can only turn hearthrough to low.  

Is there anything else out there that offers anc and no hearthrough?


----------



## EvilJesus

Got a pair of outlier air V2. They are the best fitting true wireless buds I've tried so far. The sound quality and battery life are both really good. For 70 bucks, they are a steal.


----------



## Tommy C (Nov 22, 2020)

EvilJesus said:


> Got a pair of outlier air V2. They are the best fitting true wireless buds I've tried so far. The sound quality and battery life are both really good. For 70 bucks, they are a steal.



would you happen to know what are the key differences in terms of SQ between the Outlier V2 and the Ouflier Gold?

Edit: I found some reference to both models - https://musicphotolife.com/2020/11/creative-outlier-air-v2-review-different-sounding-experience/


----------



## webvan

The Apostle said:


> I have a pair of 65t and think the 75t may be next.  I don't like what I've read about the 85t and the openness.  My goal is to block out as much otside noise and still be able to turn off hearthrough.  One thing I don't like about my Polys is you can only turn hearthrough to low.
> 
> Is there anything else out there that offers anc and no hearthrough?


Not sure what you mean and not familiar with the "Polys" but I'm not aware of any ANC TWEs that don't let you turn off hearthrough, the outliers being the Bose QC, LTA+ and Tozo NC9 that do not let you turn off ANC which is a problem in high wind situations and when bike riding.


----------



## VICosPhi

Technics true wireless buds are available for $164 on Amazon US which is a great discount imo

https://www.amazon.com/Technics-Can...=technics+true+wireless&qid=1606051570&sr=8-2


----------



## meridius

What a surprise we in the U.K. get sod all discount like this there £280 here what a joke


----------



## webvan

Same on Amazon FRA, zero friggin' discount ! To add insult to injury Amazon US now have a $50 discount on top of it, so $114 !
No real regrets though because I used the Panasonic version and they didn't fit very well in my ears and quickly became painful, not as bad as the XM3s when rammed in but still far from the Amazon Echo Buds or 75Ts.


----------



## erockg

VICosPhi said:


> Technics true wireless buds are available for $164 on Amazon US which is a great discount imo
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/Technics-Can...=technics+true+wireless&qid=1606051570&sr=8-2


Oddly enough, the white version is an additional $50 off.  Definitely a steal.


----------



## erockg

erockg said:


> New Earin earbuds on the way!  No pics, but FCC filing:  https://fccid.io/2AEI2EARINA3


Here are some images too: https://www.reddit.com/r/Earin/comments/jaqm9z/pictures_of_earin_a3_in_earin_m2_app/


----------



## clerkpalmer

erockg said:


> Oddly enough, the white version is an additional $50 off.  Definitely a steal.


Any comparisons to other high end tws? MTW2 or Bose qc?


----------



## The Apostle

webvan said:


> Not sure what you mean and not familiar with the "Polys" but I'm not aware of any ANC TWEs that don't let you turn off hearthrough, the outliers being the Bose QC, LTA+ and Tozo NC9 that do not let you turn off ANC which is a problem in high wind situations and when bike riding.


Sorry.  Polys, meaning Plantronics.


----------



## trellus

erockg said:


> Oddly enough, the white version is an additional $50 off.  Definitely a steal.



I'm not seeing any price difference between the two colors.  They're both showing as $164 for me.


----------



## clerkpalmer

trellus said:


> I'm not seeing any price difference between the two colors.  They're both showing as $164 for me.


There's a 50 coupon on the white.


----------



## clerkpalmer

erockg said:


> Oddly enough, the white version is an additional $50 off.  Definitely a steal.


Help me out. Are these worth buying? I already have Bose and MTW2. Aside from my gadget disease do these bring anything to the table? I'm half inclined to buy for for 100 and use them as my "beater" set.


----------



## erockg

clerkpalmer said:


> Any comparisons to other high end tws? MTW2 or Bose qc?


Third place against those two IMO.  Bose are great but I returned mine because of fit and sound leak.  MTW2 are awesome.


----------



## Burakk

Hey guys, I’m gonna buy new tws. Price doesn’t matter. I need good call performance beside sound quality.


----------



## erockg

clerkpalmer said:


> Help me out. Are these worth buying? I already have Bose and MTW2. Aside from my gadget disease do these bring anything to the table? I'm half inclined to buy for for 100 and use them as my "beater" set.


Seriously, I'm tempted to as well, but I only like black headphones, or the darker colors.  I had the Technics, returned them.  What you have is better IMO.  Pass on them.  There are so many new ones out and coming.  Save your dough.


----------



## erockg

erockg said:


> Seriously, I'm tempted to as well, but I only like black headphones, or the darker colors.  I had the Technics, returned them.  What you have is better IMO.  Pass on them.  There are so many new ones out and coming.  Save your dough.  My go-to sets right now are the Beoplay Sport, Jabra 85T, Earin M-2, AirPods pro Coloware black and the Klipsch T5II.  They can't make new ones fast enough for my addiction!!!


----------



## trellus (Nov 22, 2020)

clerkpalmer said:


> There's a 50 coupon on the white.



I always catch those coupons, always on the look out for them  But there's no coupon that shows up on the white for me, nothing to clip to save, perhaps a regional thing 

EDIT: pictures below showing coupon available for another pair I bought today vs no coupon on Technics "white" (silver and black are all I see but maybe silver is "white"?):



Spoiler: coupon vs no coupon


----------



## clerkpalmer

erockg said:


> Seriously, I'm tempted to as well, but I only like black headphones, or the darker colors.  I had the Technics, returned them.  What you have is better IMO.  Pass on them.  There are so many new ones out and coming.  Save your dough.



Thanks. Sound advice. I'm sure they'd collect dust with my stack of good not great TWS. Next up is the B&W.


----------



## The Apostle (Nov 22, 2020)

webvan said:


> Same on Amazon FRA, zero friggin' discount ! To add insult to injury Amazon US now have a $50 discount on top of it, so $114 !
> No real regrets though because I used the Panasonic version and they didn't fit very well in my ears and quickly became painful, not as bad as the XM3s when rammed in but still far from the Amazon Echo Buds or 75Ts.


Where are you seeing the additional $50 off?

Never mind, now I see it.


----------



## clerkpalmer

trellus said:


> I always catch those coupons, always on the look out for them  But there's no coupon that shows up on the white for me, nothing to clip to save, perhaps a regional thing
> 
> EDIT: pictures below showing coupon available for another pair I bought today vs no coupon on Technics "white" (silver and black are all I see but maybe silver is "white"?):
> 
> ...


Yeah I'm seeing a coupon on the white.


----------



## trellus

clerkpalmer said:


> Yeah I'm seeing a coupon on the white.


Please snapshot it and show me, it definitely doesn’t show for me, and tell me where you’re located - I see coupons all the time including today on Amazon and in fact clipped one today for an order but definitely there’s not one showing for that 🤷🏽‍♂️ I already showed my screenshot 😅


----------



## jant71 (Nov 22, 2020)

But if it is not showing up for you than it is your guardian angel helping you out because this will not be a good purchase for you.


----------



## erockg

clerkpalmer said:


> Thanks. Sound advice. I'm sure they'd collect dust with my stack of good not great TWS. Next up is the B&W.


Same here.  B&W and the new Earin.  Can’t wait.  I mean, I can, but...


----------



## VICosPhi (Nov 22, 2020)

clerkpalmer said:


> Help me out. Are these worth buying? I already have Bose and MTW2. Aside from my gadget disease do these bring anything to the table? I'm half inclined to buy for for 100 and use them as my "beater" set.


I haven't listened to the Technics yet, but reviews said MTW2 are better. I do have MTW2 which imo are the best sounding TWS and pretty much offer everything functionality wise, minus the mute button that Jabras have.


erockg said:


> Oddly enough, the white version is an additional $50 off.  Definitely a steal.


Wow, that is a steal...50% off for quality TWS buds released just a couple months ago! I am pretty happy between MTW2 and Beoplay H95 and cannot justify anything for a while after getting H95 lol


----------



## trellus

jant71 said:


> But if it is not showing up for you than it is your guardian angel helping you out because this will not be a good purchase for you.



LOL for sure, yeah, I was just flummoxed as to why the coupon doesn't show me for me, but someone else just reported they had them and returned them so that killed it for me anyway and definitely not paying $164.00.

I FINALLY figured it out lol... so I noticed the price was $164.00 for me (no coupon) but that while it was "shipped by Amazon" it was sold by World Wide Stereo.... but I could manually select a different seller for $164.99 -- sold by Amazon -- put it in my cart, and then when I went to my cart, voila, there appeared a "clip $50 coupon"... so for whatever reason, it defaulted to lowest price for Prime / New, which was $0.99 less before coupon from World Wide Stereo.

All that because it driving me crazy lol, I still have no intention of buying them


----------



## webvan

Amazon FRA (and maybe UK?) have the Panasonic version for 75€ if anyone's interested. Not bad but I had a few issues with them I explained here (mainly comfort after a while and popping sound from ANC) and sent them back.


----------



## The Apostle

Does MTW2 = Momentum 2?


----------



## trellus

The Apostle said:


> Does MTW2 = Momentum 2?



Momentum True Wireless 2, yes.  (Momentum 2 might be confused for the over-ear Momentum 2, perhaps?)


----------



## howdy (Nov 22, 2020)

Now that I have been able to utilize the new app for the Tevis they sound fantastic (with a slight eq adjustment) and I will be using these a lot more. My only complaint about these now is the Button is so damn hard to press in, if they get that figured out, this would be one of the best TWS to buy for the money.


----------



## VICosPhi

trellus said:


> All that because it driving me crazy lol, I still have no intention of buying them


👀 You're gonna buy it if you don't close that page 😂


----------



## jant71 (Nov 23, 2020)

Jays getting in on ANC with the t-Seven...






Page isn't up yet but Jays don't seem to do anything other than SBC and AAC so I'd not expect anything else.

And I'll throw in Tipsy essentially replicated thier earphone in TW form. Not well regarded, not more than just decent, so while it looks good I don't see any excitement here...


----------



## Aevum

new earsonics Aero, 200 euros
https://www.earsonics.com/in-ear-monitors/en/aero/


----------



## GregBe

trellus said:


> LOL for sure, yeah, I was just flummoxed as to why the coupon doesn't show me for me, but someone else just reported they had them and returned them so that killed it for me anyway and definitely not paying $164.00.
> 
> I FINALLY figured it out lol... so I noticed the price was $164.00 for me (no coupon) but that while it was "shipped by Amazon" it was sold by World Wide Stereo.... but I could manually select a different seller for $164.99 -- sold by Amazon -- put it in my cart, and then when I went to my cart, voila, there appeared a "clip $50 coupon"... so for whatever reason, it defaulted to lowest price for Prime / New, which was $0.99 less before coupon from World Wide Stereo.
> 
> All that because it driving me crazy lol, I still have no intention of buying them


Damn, I was going to grab this, but looks like the $50 coupon is now gone.  Let me know if anyone can still make this work


----------



## VICosPhi

GregBe said:


> Damn, I was going to grab this, but looks like the $50 coupon is now gone.  Let me know if anyone can still make this work


I don't see it anymore either, looks like $50 coupon deal on white ones have ended.


----------



## Quuz (Nov 23, 2020)

Looking for a pair, most important: comfort, battery life, small and big plus if it has aptx since I'm looking for low latency. Don't need anc since I already have the
Sony WH-1000XM3. Max budget 150 eur. CUrrently looking at the samsung galaxy buds+ but they don't have aptx and according to rting high latency when paired to pc


----------



## jant71 (Nov 23, 2020)

Got a delivery from Amazon a few minutes ago. My last TWS till the new wave come with 5.2 and LC3+. Took some quick pics.







size comparison with some not all 



Off to test them out a little.

First take is very positive. On all fronts actually. Like the case. Happy with the improvement over my JVC on the hear through and mic quality improvement. Sound impresses with the size and space, the bass reach, the resolution, and the space and roominess of the sound. No smear or congestion and you can hear everything in it's own space. Love the small size and easy fit and comfort. A little push and twist seems to be the right way to insert quick and easy. Case is small and solid and type C just no Qi. Quick solid connection, perfect touch controls. Easy enough to grab them on the sides and never accidentally touch the panel. Can get quite loud so not close to max volume on my devices. Can't think of anything negative to say.


----------



## itoosh (Nov 24, 2020)

Hi,
Looking to purchase this black Friday some good TWS for sports and calls.
I put my eyes on the JBL 300TWS and the Jabra Elite 75t / 65t active
Any other suggestions? 
Thanks.


----------



## Cretz42

Saw this yesterday, anyone know anything about these? Not even on the soundcore site.


----------



## mrbluetooth

Hi everyone, I would like to hear about your opinions about this;

https://www.cnx-software.com/2020/1...pports-truewireless-mirroring-and-hybrid-anc/


----------



## Bhelpoori

mrbluetooth said:


> Hi everyone, I would like to hear about your opinions about this;
> 
> https://www.cnx-software.com/2020/1...pports-truewireless-mirroring-and-hybrid-anc/


Interesting....They look remarkably like the Cleer Ally Plus/Monoprice M-TWEs... It is quite normal for Silicon providers to make reference designs. Interestingly it has AptX Adaptive and TrueWireless Mirroting support which hasn't yet appeared on any of the designs I've seen. Also interesting is that some features are still upcoming like 3 mic input for calls and adaptive ANC.


----------



## regancipher

Boya BY-AP4


----------



## helmutcheese (Nov 24, 2020)

A little Bump of my own post as now got some more info (You will need translate it in your browser).




helmutcheese said:


> SoundPEATS Sonic Bluetooth 5.2 True Wireless Earphone CVC 8.0 Noise Cancellation 35 Hours Playtime
> 
> 
> 
> ...



*New Info/First Look. >*【完全ワイヤレスイヤホン SoundPEATS Sonic レビュー】引き締まった中域、レンジ感の良い音、構築的で明瞭なサウンド。そして、比較的高い原音忠実性。連続再生時間も非常に優れている。エントリークラスの新たなスター - audio-sound @ hatena (ear-phone-review.com) *< New Info/First Look.*


----------



## trellus

smith said:


> A little heads up everyone... I have my Hiby WH3 and Fiil CC TWS up for sale in the sale/trade forum



I didn't actually find the WH3 there   I searched the forums and found only one minor reference to them by someone who has heard them -- I'm considering them based somewhat just on the possibility that they get super loud, which is something my brother "needs" ...


----------



## dweaver

Well Black Friday made me do something I really couldn't afford to do but did anyway.

Vision Electronics had the Technics AZ70 on sale for $199 and I decided to jump on them. I had to then cancel my Status Between Pro order as I just could not afford both. Instant gratification wins... lol

But having spent some time with these I am pretty damned impressed. The ANC is as good as I have heard in an IEM and maybe as good as my 1000XM3 over ears. 

Sonically speaking they sound sublime. Very balanced and detailed with the ability to go deep in the bass without sounding overblown, mids are nice and detailed and treble also sounded sparkly without being harsh, very nice sound stage too. 

I own the original MTW and I like these more sonically speaking. Will do some AB comparisons to some of my other TW. At $200 CAD these sound very good.


----------



## The Jojo

itoosh said:


> Hi,
> Looking to purchase this black Friday some good TWS for sports and calls.
> I put my eyes on the JBL 300TWS and the Jabra Elite 75t / 65t active
> Any other suggestions?
> Thanks.



I don't have suggestions, but I just want to say that I really love my Elite Active 75t. Good fit, deep bass, nice companion app including an equalizer - I like them so much that I immediately bought a second pair when I lost the original ones (found them later, turned out my little boy loved to play with the case!). Can only recommend them.


----------



## webvan

If you find yourself needing to switch between sources the 75t (or 65t I suppose) can't be beat !

Abou the Anker Soundcore Life Dot 2 NC I only found this https://www.reddit.com/r/anker/comments/jvmkwz/new_release_life_dot_2_nc_soundcores_first_true and the Life Dot 2 reviews were not great. How about some L2P NCs so we can have the first (I think ?) DD+BA ANC TWEs !

In other news I have sent back the Bose QC Earbuds, more CONs (size, case, can't turn off ANC, poor PNC, price) than PROs (good ANC, good soundstage) I'm afraid...


----------



## kiwikozo (Nov 25, 2020)

Hi, hoping someone can help please!

I haven't been following true wireless earphones, what has changed in the last 12 months?

Looking for the best TW in-ears - want to keep them for a while. Currently have Earin M2 which are coming on 2 years old. Onto a 2nd pair because of battery durability issues but I think it is time to let them go....

Will be pairing with a Samsung smartphone, would prefer smaller ones but I can go bigger if the quality makes it worth it. 

I'm not a fan of the noise-cancelling vacuum effect so I would want to turn any active noise cancelling feature off. The in ear buds block out sound regardless.

Battery life is crazy high now for the newer models (my m2 only lasts for 2 hours max).

Is the MW07 plus still the best pair to go for? Or is it the Momentum wireless 2? Or is there something else?

I purchased the first momentum TW, and the anker soundcore liberty 2 pro but they were just too bright and had that hissing issue so I returned.

Hoping to get a good price this black Friday!

Thanks


----------



## karloil

Aevum said:


> new earsonics Aero, 200 euros
> https://www.earsonics.com/in-ear-monitors/en/aero/



Always been an Earsonics fan, hope they stick with their house sound 😀


----------



## DigDub (Nov 25, 2020)

Another pair of inexpensive tws earbuds. Coopidea beans air. $54.90 Singapore dollars.

Full controls are available, including playback/pause, skip forward/backward tracks, volume up/down and even manual power on/off. Either side of the earbuds can be used while the other one is in the case. The left and right channels are downmixed into mono when only either one of the buds is in use. The case is USB-C and is very small and can be charged with quickcharge power adapters (so a real USB-C standard). The earbuds are small and comfortable too, it's shape is reminiscent of the once popular UFO tws earbuds.

Sounds consumer friendly, hard hitting bass, a tad grainy highs and mids are ok, overall relaxed sound.

edit: so I took a closer look at the box containing the tips and found that there are actually 3 sizes of bass tips and 3 sizes of balanced tips.  The bass tips have a smaller opening and a more conical shape, while the balanced tips has a wider bore and a more tubular shape. Putting the balanced tips on, the sound becomes more balanced, the big bass is replaced with tight bass and the mids and mid highs open up and take centre stage.

Impressive features and outstanding value.











Case size comparison with Samsung buds live case.


----------



## Luke Skywalker

erockg said:


> Can't wait to try these out: https://www.crutchfield.com/S-LUJOJ...gvSmTBwzpXgOkA2N_cK4CHh7hrFyEmBYaArzbEALw_wcB


Those look awesome.  They don't mention anything about supporting AAC though...


----------



## dweaver

On the train using the Technics AZ70 and so far these are impressing me for ANC. Pretty much just me and the music and music is awesome. Listening to Fleetwood Mac The Chain and when the bass line kicks in hard these capture that perfectly and vocals, cymbals  sound detailed and engaging.

Last night listening to Greg Keeler album Gone these had bass when it was called for reaching deep into the sub bass and vocals conveyed emotion well, piano had excellent decay and sustain, guitars similarly sounded plucky and detailed.

These might only have one speaker but is a damned good one and has been tuned to perfection.

The ambient feature also works very well as does just using these without ANC.

Any flaws? Well I never really like touch panels and these have not changed my feeling on that. So far the touch scheme is a bit tricky especially for volume control and switching tracks but basic things like switching modes from ANC to Ambient and off or using the assistant work well and I think answering the phone will be good.

The one quick call I had last night to my wife she said I sounded good and the cars in the background were reduced to whispers according to her. But will see what they are like in the downtown core after work tonight.

So if you want a good audiophile TW with most features these will definitely fit the bill. At full retail they have some hefty competition but I think hold their own. On sale for $199 CAD these are a steal.


----------



## heikkönen (Nov 25, 2020)

Hi, I hope everyone is doing well.
I usually renew my TWS IEM’s every year and it’s time for doing that now. For 3-4 days, I’ve been searching for a new one, and found several options which are Tronsmart Spunky Beat, Tronsmart Spunky Pro, Haylou GT1 Plus, KZ S1 and Wavefun Xpods 3. I have a price range of 20-25$. For now, Tronsmart Spunky Beat is my first choice here since I think it’s more likely to satisfy my expectations. I’ve heard that it’s well balanced but still I’m not sure because I want plenty of punch and kicking drums (but not like a bass bomb thing) and I wonder if there’s any IEMs which I don’t know in this price range and better than Spunky Beat.
By the way, I’ve owned QCY T2C and Blitzwolf FYE-7 before and didn’t like both.
I’m waiting for your recommendations and thanks in advance for the help.
Note: I like Apple EarPods’ general shape of sound, maybe it helps to compare with.


----------



## HiddenUser

It seems that little by little more TWS earbuds supporting *aptX Adaptive* are appearing. The last ones are *Xiaomi Mi Air Pro 2* and *Soundpeats H1*. This is interesting, because aptX Adaptive is backwards compatible with aptX HD (and also standard aptX), so earbuds with this codec can receive aptX HD or Adaptive data from another device.

Since there are very few wireless IEMs supporting both aptX Low Latency and HD/Adaptive (I have only found the H1 and the Creative Aurvana Trio Wireless neckband), could you recommend any other TWS earbuds (not neckband) supporting both aptX Low Latency and Adaptive?

Thanks


----------



## helmutcheese (Nov 25, 2020)

^^ SoundPeats Sonic also.

AFAIK it does not have as low a latency as aptX-LL @ 40ms but will connect to aptX-LL devices as backwards compatible..

Overall it has latency of 50-80ms (adapting between quality and signal strength/distance/source content) which is lower than before for aptX and aptX-HD.


----------



## HiddenUser

helmutcheese said:


> AFAIK it does not have as low a latency as aptX-LL @ 40ms but will connect to aptX-LL devices as backwards compatible..


Are you sure aptX Adaptive is backwards compatible with aptX LL too? That is, can a device transmit LL data to earbuds supporting ONLY the Adaptive codec and still get the lowest latency supported by the Adaptive codec (50ms)? The Qualcomm site claims that Adaptive is only compatible with aptX HD and aptX... My guess is the LL data is converted to standard aptX, so high latency is unavoidable in this case.

Thanks again

PS. I can't find the Sonic. Even is not advertised on the Soundpeats site (the new H1 is).


----------



## smith

Hope they get a UK release....

[which QUOTE="jant71, post: 15994132, member: 22616"]
Got a delivery from Amazon a few minutes ago. My last TWS till the new wave come with 5.2 and LC3+. Took some quick pics.


size comparison with some not all 

Off to test them out a little.

First take is very positive. On all fronts actually. Like the case. Happy with the improvement over my JVC on the hear through and mic quality improvement. Sound impresses with the size and space, the bass reach, the resolution, and the space and roominess of the sound. No smear or congestion and you can hear everything in it's own space. Love the small size and easy fit and comfort. A little push and twist seems to be the right way to insert quick and easy. Case is small and solid and type C just no Qi. Quick solid connection, perfect touch controls. Easy enough to grab them on the sides and never accidentally touch the panel. Can get quite loud so not close to max volume on my devices. Can't think of anything negative to say.
[/QUOTE]


----------



## The Apostle

Hoping to get some feedback and suggestions.  I m looking for a new pair of TWS that will be used on conference calls, that at times, is a slightly noisy office.  Currently I switch back and forth between the Jabra Elite 65t and Plantronics Voyager 6200.  Both have their pluses and minuses and I am probably tying to fill an unattainable voided.  Nonetheless, here I am.  LOL.  Here is what I am looking for and how the current handle those situations.  

ANC
Ability to turn off hear through
Won't overly pick up background noise
A good seal (none of this new proprietary weird oval crap)
Companion app for adjustability
The Plantronics do a great job of blocking out background conversation and have great call quality.  However, you can only turn hear through to "low".  If I want to listen to music between calls, they're terrible.  Although music is the last of my concerns for these.  

The Elite 65t pick up everything in the background.  The call quality is good from what everyone says, but I always get asked what's going on in the background.  These things pick up everything!

If I can find something that works I am not concerned with the price.  Does anyone have experience with conference calls in variable environments that can make suggestions?


----------



## helmutcheese (Nov 25, 2020)

HiddenUser said:


> Are you sure aptX Adaptive is backwards compatible with aptX LL too? That is, can a device transmit LL data to earbuds supporting ONLY the Adaptive codec and still get the lowest latency supported by the Adaptive codec (50ms)? The Qualcomm site claims that Adaptive is only compatible with aptX HD and aptX... My guess is the LL data is converted to standard aptX, so high latency is unavoidable in this case.
> 
> Thanks again
> 
> PS. I can't find the Sonic. Even is not advertised on the Soundpeats site (the new H1 is).



From my readings yes if a receiver only had 1 codec and that was aptX-LL it would still connect to it and play but will not be 40ms.

I am not sure if it will use the original aptX as that *is* what happens if you connect an aptX only device to an aptx-LL only device (but any LL device will *normally* have aptX also so both codecs).

Look at my posted history, I posted the Sonics last week and updated the other day but so far they are on Ebay.com (I am in UK) so I ordered them directly from SoundsPeats China via Ebay.com.

Ordered on the 17th and they are now with the Royal Mail (sat at customs a few days due to Covid etc) so will be here on 27th, not too bad.

SoundPEATS Sonic Bluetooth 5.2 True Wireless Earphone CVC 8.0 Noise Cancellation | eBay


----------



## Blotto80

I haven’t really been paying much attention to the TWS space of late but now my kid wants a pair for Xmas but her main use is video (YouTube, tiktok, Netflix). Is there anything cheap that has decent latency with an iPhone? I’m less concerned about SQ than price and lag.


----------



## HiddenUser

helmutcheese said:


> From my readings yes if a receiver only had 1 codec and that was aptX-LL it would still connect to it and play but will not be 40ms.


I was asking the opposite: when the receiver only has the Adaptive codec and receives LL data from a device (typical scenario for the H1). This is important for watching TV with negligible lag (I'm sensitive to this). As you know, there are very few Bluetooth transmitters supporting aptX Adaptive (you have to buy a BT DAC/amp). Most mainstream transmitter/receivers support aptX LL like mine (and other codecs too, but not the new one). Anyway, I have read some reviews and it seems the H1 has a special gaming mode. According to the manufacturer, the lag in this mode is very low - 40ms. approx, virtually the same as that of the old Low Latency codec. But take this with a grain of salt, because a reviewer measured 175ms latency with this mode on (high in my opinion).


> Ordered on the 17th and they are now with the Royal Mail (sat at customs a few days due to Covid etc) so will be here on 27th, not too bad.
> 
> SoundPEATS Sonic Bluetooth 5.2 True Wireless Earphone CVC 8.0 Noise Cancellation | eBay


When it arrives, please comment on your first impressions.


----------



## chinmie

Blotto80 said:


> I haven’t really been paying much attention to the TWS space of late but now my kid wants a pair for Xmas but her main use is video (YouTube, tiktok, Netflix). Is there anything cheap that has decent latency with an iPhone? I’m less concerned about SQ than price and lag.



as far as i know almost all TWS, even the cheaper ones would have a good low latency on IOS devices for videos, so the choices would be plenty. you might also consider form and sizes that would fit her better, also whether she prefer open seal or IEM styled TWS


----------



## helmutcheese

HiddenUser said:


> I was asking the opposite: when the receiver only has the Adaptive codec and receives LL data from a device (typical scenario for the H1). This is important for watching TV with negligible lag (I'm sensitive to this). As you know, there are very few Bluetooth transmitters supporting aptX Adaptive (you have to buy a BT DAC/amp). Most mainstream transmitter/receivers support aptX LL like mine (and other codecs too, but not the new one). Anyway, I have read some reviews and it seems the H1 has a special gaming mode. According to the manufacturer, the lag in this mode is very low - 40ms. approx, virtually the same as that of the old Low Latency codec. But take this with a grain of salt, because a reviewer measured 175ms latency with this mode on (high in my opinion).
> 
> When it arrives, please comment on your first impressions.




I do not know of any transmitters with aptX-Adaptive so far, only ear/headphones.

I seen a good review on the H1's and the gaming mode was down to 50ms dependant on what device it was connected to and what the content playing was, obviously they fair better with Android devices than Apple.

He had a GUI on the screen and yes in one use it was a 3 figured read out.

It was on Youtube recently so will be one of newer one as there are not many reviews.

The Sonic also has gaming mode.

Here :  The VERY BEST of 2020! - Soundpeats H1 Review + Latency & Call Test - YouTube


----------



## chinmie

there's a new review of the Soundpeats Sonic on YouTube 


seeing the form factor, it might be better fit for smaller ears. it's already available on my local online market, but i still more intrigued to try the H1 more


----------



## erockg

Klipsch T5 II are 50% off for Black Friday right now on Amazon.  Love mine!                                              Klipsch T5 II True Wireless Gunmetal


----------



## assassin10000

Re-did my modded X12 Pro's with some 40Ω composite PU & Ti drivers. Wish they had these from the get go. 





Spoiler: Driver


----------



## HiddenUser (Nov 26, 2020)

helmutcheese said:


> I do not know of any transmitters with aptX-Adaptive so far, only ear/headphones.
> 
> I seen a good review on the H1's and the gaming mode was down to 50ms dependant on what device it was connected to and what the content playing was, obviously they fair better with Android devices than Apple.
> 
> ...


Thanks for your explanation. but my question is still unanswered: *Do you know if a device supporting only Adaptive (the H1 or any other) can receive LL data without converting them to aptX Classic first?* Therein lies the key, because if they are converted, then the latency increases a lot.

Does anyone know?

Thanks again


----------



## helmutcheese

AFAIK there is no longer any aptX-LL in adaptive only aptX/aptx-HD where as the latency is reduced more than before for both but not as low as aptX-LL.


----------



## HiddenUser (Nov 26, 2020)

helmutcheese said:


> AFAIK there is no longer any aptX-LL in adaptive only aptX/aptx-HD where as the latency is reduced more than before for both but not as low as aptX-LL.


That's what I wanted to know. It's impossible to find TWS earbuds with both aptX LL and HD, and even less so with LL and Adaptive. For me LL is a must, because my BT adapter for TV transmits aptX LL, standard aptX and HD. It's likely the gaming mode of the H1/Sonic comes in handy for my purposes. But the H1 and Sonic are not widely available yet (they are not on Amazon Europe and the Sonic is only available on Amazon Japan).

So my only options are 1) try the Aurvana Trio Wireless neckband (supports all 3 codecs: LL, standard and HD but is a neckband) and 2) when available, try the H1 to see how that game mode works with my BT adapter. And yes, aptX HD or Adaptive is desirable in order to listen to my Tidal subscription in all its glory. Can you think of anything else?
Thanks you for any ideas


----------



## GregBe (Nov 26, 2020)

erockg said:


> Klipsch T5 II are 50% off for Black Friday right now on Amazon.  Love mine!                                              Klipsch T5 II True Wireless Gunmetal


Thanks for the heads-up!   I wonder how these sound compared to the Technics or the Sennheiser Momentum.  I am looking for a new pair (coming from the Soundcore Liberty 2 Pro) and don't care about ANC and feel like I am paying for that with some of the more expensive ones.  At $100 on sale,, these could fit the bill.

Any thoughts?


----------



## helmutcheese

I prefer Neckbands esp for battery (mine claim 35 hours), and so long as your using Android based devices your latency will be lower anyhow as not using ACC but SBC/AptX variants and watching a movie which since the days of DVD will be 24bit you ideally need at least aptX-HD, if it fell back to aptX or aptX-LL it would be 16bit (a trade of for distance+lag vs quality I suppose.

You can normally adjust this in the devices normally, I can in my Nvidia Shield TV with a Test that uses ball bouncing on the screen).


----------



## blomman77

Soundpeats Sonic is available on Amazon uk with a 15% voucher
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Bluetooth-...ywords=soundpeats+sonic&qid=1606404713&sr=8-1


HiddenUser said:


> That's what I wanted to know. It's impossible to find TWS earbuds with both aptX LL and HD, and even less so with LL and Adaptive. For me LL is a must, because my BT adapter for TV transmits aptX LL, standard aptX and HD. It's likely the gaming mode of the H1/Sonic comes in handy for my purposes. But the H1 and Sonic are not widely available yet (they are not on Amazon Europe and the Sonic is only available on Amazon Japan).
> 
> So my only options are 1) try the Aurvana Trio Wireless neckband (supports all 3 codecs: LL, standard and HD but is a neckband) and 2) when available, try the H1 to see how that game mode works with my BT adapter. And yes, aptX HD or Adaptive is desirable in order to listen to my Tidal subscription in all its glory. Can you think of anything else?
> Thanks you for any ideas


----------



## helmutcheese

Sods Law just as mines arrive from China tomorrow, would have preferred Amazon due to returns if any issues.


----------



## Caipirina

webvan said:


> If you find yourself needing to switch between sources the 75t (or 65t I suppose) can't be beat !
> 
> Abou the Anker Soundcore Life Dot 2 NC I only found this https://www.reddit.com/r/anker/comments/jvmkwz/new_release_life_dot_2_nc_soundcores_first_true and the Life Dot 2 reviews were not great. How about some L2P NCs so we can have the first (I think ?) DD+BA ANC TWEs !
> 
> In other news I have sent back the Bose QC Earbuds, more CONs (size, case, can't turn off ANC, poor PNC, price) than PROs (good ANC, good soundstage) I'm afraid...



Ek Jeffe did a review 

not gonna watch .. can't buy anything anyways ... sucks ... 

Well, instead of chasing new stuff I am re-learning to appreciate all the audio gizmos I already own ... just realizing that my first more serious DAP, the Fiio X3ii is not already 5 years old and still going strong!


----------



## cresny

erockg said:


> Klipsch T5 II are 50% off for Black Friday right now on Amazon.  Love mine!                                              Klipsch T5 II True Wireless Gunmetal


This is so tempting. I had pretty much decided that lack of ANC is a no-go, but given fit and tips I may break that rule for these. How do they compare to MTW2 or Sony in that regard? I currently just have the Sony's and love the sound and ANC, but the fit in motion will probably always be a problem.


----------



## C_Lindbergh

erockg said:


> Klipsch T5 II are 50% off for Black Friday right now on Amazon.  Love mine!                                              Klipsch T5 II True Wireless Gunmetal



****, I'd jump on that deal if there was one in EU.


----------



## clerkpalmer

cresny said:


> This is so tempting. I had pretty much decided that lack of ANC is a no-go, but given fit and tips I may break that rule for these. How do they compare to MTW2 or Sony in that regard? I currently just have the Sony's and love the sound and ANC, but the fit in motion will probably always be a problem.


 I think these fall into the same category as the technics we were discussing over the weekend that were on Amazon coupon sale. I would hold off and save your money. Lots of new stuff coming and you'll wish you hadn't burned the hundy on good not great TWS.


----------



## mymail0808

I have enough budget for 
soundpeats H1;
Bose QuietComfort Earbuds
or Sony WF-1000XM3 (good price in HK, much cheaper than bose)
(these 3 with review of good sound, open to other choice)

My main concern is connection and sound quality/signature; which one will be close to what i like ibasso IT03, Sony N3Ap or RHA T20?

ANC maybe not really a main concern, just a bonus.
review of Soundpeats sound is so good and with BT5.2;
but sony and bose sound seems also very good (even not considering ANC), big brand...
Sorry, confused.................


----------



## erockg

cresny said:


> This is so tempting. I had pretty much decided that lack of ANC is a no-go, but given fit and tips I may break that rule for these. How do they compare to MTW2 or Sony in that regard? I currently just have the Sony's and love the sound and ANC, but the fit in motion will probably always be a problem.


I couldn't wear the Sony's.  Fit was really bad in my ears.  I also have the MTW2 and love them.  The Klipsch have great sound.  Decent soundstage.  I like the fit but some may not.  I get about 7-8 hrs per charge.  For $99 the T5II are a steal at that price.  In my opinion, I'd say in order of what think is the best: MTW2, Klipsch, Jabra 85T then the Sony come in last.  Mostly because the fit was awful and both the case and buds are huge.


----------



## clerkpalmer

mymail0808 said:


> I have enough budget for
> soundpeats H1;
> Bose QuietComfort Earbuds
> or Sony WF-1000XM3 (good price in HK, much cheaper than bose)
> ...


Can't speak for the H1 although they look quite nice. As between Bose and Sony, Bose all day long if fit matters to you. The Sony is fatally flawed in the fit category. Some people prefer the richer warmer sq of the Sony but I think the Bose go toe to toe with them provided you like the Bose house sound.


----------



## clerkpalmer

I agree with Erockg that if you can stretch for the MTW2, that's the way to go.


----------



## jant71

smith said:


> Hope they get a UK release....
> 
> [which QUOTE="jant71, post: 15994132, member: 22616"]
> Got a delivery from Amazon a few minutes ago. My last TWS till the new wave come with 5.2 and LC3+. Took some quick pics.
> ...


[/QUOTE]

Don't know if that will happen. Any other Victor label stuff in the UK?? The little things are great and will suit me well till the next gen stuff. Actually would love the same exact thing with the new tech. The case is great with the angled bud seating. The small size and weight is perfect. I did get the eartips to go with these...




Which do sound a bit better and make the fit easier if not better. Outside of putting in Qi and adaptive instead of just aptX these have been just what I was hoping for in the three things I wanted. Work great without issue, sound great, and I got that even less obtrusive level with the smaller size and weight and easy fit with great comfort. The basic things wireless is about done well with zero complaints and makes me wonder if I'll grab any of my other models and know I am not looking for anything else for a long while. Just realize when it is good and stick with it and enjoy!


----------



## cresny

clerkpalmer said:


> I agree with Erockg that if you can stretch for the MTW2, that's the way to go.


Thank you guys for the intervention. I've had my eye on the Senns since they dropped. If they drop below $250 I'll bite.


----------



## HiddenUser

helmutcheese said:


> I prefer Neckbands esp for battery (mine claim 35 hours), and so long as your using Android based devices your latency will be lower anyhow as not using ACC but SBC/AptX variants and watching a movie which since the days of DVD will be 24bit you ideally need at least aptX-HD, if it fell back to aptX or aptX-LL it would be 16bit (a trade of for distance+lag vs quality I suppose.
> 
> You can normally adjust this in the devices normally, I can in my Nvidia Shield TV with a Test that uses ball bouncing on the screen).


So which one do you think is better in terms of sound quality and latency (apart from comfort)?

Creative Aurvana Trio Wireless (neckband) [SPECS] - up to 20 hours playtime. but I feel it won't be comfortable for the bed
Bower & Wilkins PI4 (neckband) [SPECS]- according to the manual, supports SBC, AAC, aptX, aptX HD and Adaptive, but not LL (so I'm not sure if it's suitable for TV)
Soundpeats H1
Soundpeats Sonic

On the other hand, what are the differences between the H1 and Sonic?

Thank you very much for your help, indeed.


----------



## howdy

Caipirina said:


> Ek Jeffe did a review
> 
> not gonna watch .. can't buy anything anyways ... sucks ...
> 
> Well, instead of chasing new stuff I am re-learning to appreciate all the audio gizmos I already own ... just realizing that my first more serious DAP, the Fiio X3ii is not already 5 years old and still going strong!



That's what I'm trying to do is just enjoy what I have at this moment. I have a FiiO X5iii that I should charge up and pull out the CIEMs this long weekend. Im just always using the TWs (mainly Jabra 75/85) for convenience.


----------



## helmutcheese

HiddenUser said:


> So which one do you think is better in terms of sound quality and latency (apart from comfort)?
> 
> Creative Aurvana Trio Wireless (neckband) [SPECS] - up to 20 hours playtime. but I feel it won't be comfortable for the bed
> Bower & Wilkins PI4 (neckband) [SPECS]- according to the manual, supports SBC, AAC, aptX, aptX HD and Adaptive, but not LL (so I'm not sure if it's suitable for TV)
> ...



I do not have the Sonics or H1 yet.

I have not got the Creatives but have eyed them up but ideally I like Wings and do not like controls on my neck as hard to use esp with a hood up in rain or even a winter jacket collar.

I did have the P14's but they hurt my ear to get good seal which was a very good seal (I have large canals), as they are flange type buds like Bose use), the actual quality is good as a single Full Range 14mm speaker.

They are plagued with issues even after FW updates (read on Amazon and reviews) so I returned them.

You can plug them in via USB and they act like a 24/96 DAC (many brands cannot seem to get past Window limit of 16/44 doing so).


----------



## Caipirina

howdy said:


> That's what I'm trying to do is just enjoy what I have at this moment. I have a FiiO X5iii that I should charge up and pull out the CIEMs this long weekend. Im just always using the TWs (mainly Jabra 75/85) for convenience.


paired my fiio with the fiio Q1ii amp and use the balanced out for my Hifiman HE400 ... only caveat is that in my surroundings there's always some kind of noise I can hear when I listen to music on open backs ... this is why I like ANC so much and my Bose QC35 are my daily main drivers


----------



## dweaver (Nov 26, 2020)

GregBe said:


> Thanks for the heads-up!   I wonder how these sound compared to the Technics or the Sennheiser Momentum.  I am looking for a new pair (coming from the Soundcore Liberty 2 Pro) and don't care about ANC and feel like I am paying for that with some of the more expensive ones.  At $100 on sale,, these could fit the bill.
> 
> Any thoughts?


I cant speak on the Klipsh but I can talk to the technics AZ70, the sound pro 2, and the original MTW.

First off I agree with not needing ANC but since the AZ70 has it I have to admit while I don't need it I really do appreciate having it. I like having ambient mode as well and almost find that one a more compelling feature at times.

Sonically speaking the AZ70 is super detailed and clean sounding and in my opinion heads and shoulders above the L2P and MTW. The L2P has a much bigger bass presence though so if you like that then the AZ70 might not be your cup of tea whereas the Klipsch might be, if they are anything like past Klipsch products I have owned. The MTW on the hand is a warmer signature but is less detailed.

Comfort wise I find the AZ70 very similar to the MTW but I have read the MTW2 is slightly smaller so might have a slight advantage in that regard. The L2P for is also very comfortable but in an obviously different form factor.

I prefer the physical buttons of the L2P over both AZ70 and MTW but can manage the touch panels so can live with the difference.

I have read people find the AZ70 a bit loose and I have to admit I notice they are bit loose feeling. BUT I did a head shake test with them in and they never came out of my ears so I am comfortable using them for the level of excercising I do.

for phone calls, I really like the L2P and had good experience with the MTW from memory. The AZ70 also seem OK but I have only done 1 call in only a lightly noising environment so the verdict is still out on that model. In comparison the WF-XB700 are horrible in noisy environments as people on the receiving end always complain about the background noise.

Take a hard look at those Klipsch if they are sale for a good price though, and read reviews and hopefully find one where the reviewer is also familiar with the L2P or likes the kind of music as you do and see if you can guage how they would be in comparison.

If your in Canada, the AZ70 is on sale for 199CAD which is about $150US so at that price the added ANC might just be some added gravy and their audiophile like sound quality make them a compelling TW in my opinion.


----------



## Caipirina

mymail0808 said:


> I have enough budget for
> soundpeats H1;
> Bose QuietComfort Earbuds
> or Sony WF-1000XM3 (good price in HK, much cheaper than bose)
> ...


i kinda love the Sony (can;t say anything about the other 2) but somehow I keep having minor connection issues with them, but I sense that might be an isolated case with my set (which I got from amazon warehouse) ... if you have a chance to test and possibly return, I warmly recommend the sony ... fit might be a different topic as ears vary ...


----------



## HiddenUser (Nov 26, 2020)

helmutcheese said:


> I did have the P14's but they hurt my ear to get good seal which was a very good seal (I have large canals), as they are flange type buds like Bose use), the actual quality is good as a single Full Range 14mm speaker


Is this neckband comfortable for the bed? Did you test it by watching TV/movies?


----------



## clerkpalmer

cresny said:


> Thank you guys for the intervention. I've had my eye on the Senns since they dropped. If they drop below $250 I'll bite.


I got a set on ebay BNIB for 240.


----------



## howdy

clerkpalmer said:


> I got a set on ebay BNIB for 240.


There at Best buy for 250 right now.


----------



## jasonb

howdy said:


> There at Best buy for 250 right now.



And Amazon


----------



## itoosh (Nov 26, 2020)

Hi,
I'm about to pull the trigger on the SONY WF-SP800N. I want a TWS earphones with great comfort and decent (+) sound.
What do you think about this model?
Any other suggestion I should consider for sport?
It seems that Sony, Jabra, Soundcore and Jbud are nailing it in the TWS Sport arena.


----------



## clerkpalmer

itoosh said:


> Hi,
> I'm about to pull the trigger on the SONY WF-SP800N. I want a TWS earphones with great comfort and decent (+) sound.
> What do you think about this model?
> Any other suggestion I should consider for sport?
> It seems that Sony, Jabra, Soundcore and Jbud are nailing it in the TWS Sport arena.


Not a bad choice. They do everything well and are very comfortable. Good sound. ANC.  App support.   Good all rounder assuming they are on sale. Might consider the Jabra at that price point as well if you want ANC.


----------



## itoosh (Nov 26, 2020)

clerkpalmer said:


> Not a bad choice. They do everything well and are very comfortable. Good sound. ANC.  App support.   Good all rounder assuming they are on sale. Might consider the Jabra at that price point as well if you want ANC.


I actually don't care about ANC. I run at city center area and want to connected somehow to the area surround me. I read about hiss problems in some Jabra models.
Since the Jabra and Sony are in the same league and I can't listen and try them before I prefer the Sony. Here in Israel you CANT return headphones/earphones, and there are great deals locally on the Sony and Jabra models.
Most important thing is comfort, than sound. good app should be obvious.


----------



## clerkpalmer

itoosh said:


> I actually don't care about ANC. I run at city center area and want to connected somehow to the area surround me. I read about hiss problems in some Jabra models.
> Since the Jabra and Sony are in the same league and I can't listen and try them before I prefer the Sony. Here in Israel you CANT return headphones/earphones, and there are great deals locally on the Sony and Jabra models.
> Most important thing is comfort, than sound. good app should be obvious.


I think you will be happy with them.  Let us know what you think.


----------



## itoosh

clerkpalmer said:


> I think you will be happy with them.  Let us know what you think.


Great. I will update. Thanks for your comments!
Probably will get it next week since I want the white ones! the blacks are available 5 mins drive from me.


----------



## dweaver

itoosh said:


> Hi,
> I'm about to pull the trigger on the SONY WF-SP800N. I want a TWS earphones with great comfort and decent (+) sound.
> What do you think about this model?
> Any other suggestion I should consider for sport?
> It seems that Sony, Jabra, Soundcore and Jbud are nailing it in the TWS Sport arena.


I am really liking the Technics AZ70, great ANC, comfortable, decent APP. They are probably going to be a more balanced sounding IEM compared to the SP800N if my Sony IEMs and Headphones are any indication so you will have to decide on that but the over all detail retrieval of the AZ70 is very high compared to my Sony iems having more balanced mids and a bit more sparkle in the treble region.

I love my Sony products but if you can get the AZ70 on sale I think you need to look at it.


----------



## itoosh

dweaver said:


> I am really liking the Technics AZ70, great ANC, comfortable, decent APP. They are probably going to be a more balanced sounding IEM compared to the SP800N if my Sony IEMs and Headphones are any indication so you will have to decide on that but the over all detail retrieval of the AZ70 is very high compared to my Sony iems having more balanced mids and a bit more sparkle in the treble region.
> 
> I love my Sony products but if you can get the AZ70 on sale I think you need to look at it.


Good option. I was looking at it but can't find it locally. with shipping and custom price will be around 220$. Twice the price of the Sony I'm looking at. I will think about it and try to find a better shipping options.


----------



## dweaver

itoosh said:


> Good option. I was looking at it but can't find it locally. with shipping and custom price will be around 220$. Twice the price of the Sony I'm looking at. I will think about it and try to find a better shipping options.


I am very familiar with that scenario of getting what you can affordably . If you can get the 800N for half the price of the AZ70 then that's a no brainer, go Sony! I know that model will likely sound awesome, almost it bought it myself a few times. actually probably should have ponied up the extra $50 when I bought the WF-XB700 and grabbed that one instead. If I had I might not of ended buyuing the AZ70 which would have saved me $200 on this addict... er hobby. LOL


----------



## itoosh

dweaver said:


> I am very familiar with that scenario of getting what you can affordably . If you can get the 800N for half the price of the AZ70 then that's a no brainer, go Sony! I know that model will likely sound awesome, almost it bought it myself a few times. actually probably should have ponied up the extra $50 when I bought the WF-XB700 and grabbed that one instead. If I had I might not of ended buyuing the AZ70 which would have saved me $200 on this addict... er hobby. LOL



BEST HOBBY EVER.
I'm actually really thinking about the Technics...The better option is always better regardless the price :>
Beside the TWS I'm about to purchase another wired IEM for regular listening and use, So another 50-100$ to the TWS will bite from audio allowance...the Chi-Fi IEMs rabbit hole calls me!


----------



## GregBe

dweaver said:


> I cant speak on the Klipsh but I can talk to the technics AZ70, the sound pro 2, and the original MTW.
> 
> First off I agree with not needing ANC but since the AZ70 has it I have to admit while I don't need it I really do appreciate having it. I like having ambient mode as well and almost find that one a more compelling feature at times.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the detailed reply.  I'm seriously considering the AZ70.  I actually EQ the bass down quite a bit on the L2P so I am thinking a more balanced frequency response is what I'm after.  I think I'm down to picking up the Klipsch at $100 vs the Technics for $165.  Pretty good sale price on both.


----------



## dweaver

One concern I do have the AZ70 is the case. Its premium feeling and pretty nice but the IEMs are a bit fussy going in it and more importantly the case feels ever so slightly fragile on the hinges.


----------



## howdy

dweaver said:


> One concern I do have the AZ70 is the case. Its premium feeling and pretty nice but the IEMs are a bit fussy going in it and more importantly the case feels ever so slightly fragile on the hinges.


I wonder if the hinges are anything like the Sennheiser MTW 1? My case broke with delicate care in 2 pieces. I think that's unacceptable for 300 dollar TWs earbuds.


----------



## TK33

howdy said:


> I wonder if the hinges are anything like the Sennheiser MTW 1? My case broke with delicate care in 2 pieces. I think that's unacceptable for 300 dollar TWs earbuds.


I finally sent my MTW in for repair...will see what they say. There is actually a separate True Wireless Case option when you go to submit a repair request.  It was too fragile and definitely a flaw in their design.  Would've fallen apart sooner except they hadn't left my home since I started working from home in March.


----------



## dweaver

howdy said:


> I wonder if the hinges are anything like the Sennheiser MTW 1? My case broke with delicate care in 2 pieces. I think that's unacceptable for 300 dollar TWs earbuds.


Thats exactly what happened to my MTW and I agree at that price thats just unacceptable!

Only time will tell but that's why I mentioned it because it does make me nervous. Hopefully it doesn't happen.

Playing with the EQ tonight and it works quite well. I set the lowest bass to +2 and the next bass to +1 and thats made them slightly warmer and the bass has just a bit more heft. To many years listening to bass heavy sony's LOL. The change is very subtle but I like how double bass sounds with the addition and how it slightly modifies Patricia Barbers voice adding just a hint of warmth to her voice and minimized her sibilince on S's.


----------



## Tommy C

dweaver said:


> Thats exactly what happened to my MTW and I agree at that price thats just unacceptable!
> 
> Only time will tell but that's why I mentioned it because it does make me nervous. Hopefully it doesn't happen.
> 
> Playing with the EQ tonight and it works quite well. I set the lowest bass to +2 and the next bass to +1 and thats made them slightly warmer and the bass has just a bit more heft. To many years listening to bass heavy sony's LOL. The change is very subtle but I like how double bass sounds with the addition and how it slightly modifies Patricia Barbers voice adding just a hint of warmth to her voice and minimized her sibilince on S's.



I was reading somewhere (IIRC on Amazon) that the stock silicon tips don’t offer much in terms of bass and foam tips or thicker silicon tips provide much more bass and heft so it’s worth a shot since I’m sure you have some other tips in your possession 😁


----------



## dweaver

Have some complys that should fit. Will try them out tomorrow. The stock sound is ever so close to perfect lol.


----------



## mymail0808

Caipirina said:


> i kinda love the Sony (can;t say anything about the other 2) but somehow I keep having minor connection issues with them, but I sense that might be an isolated case with my set (which I got from amazon warehouse) ... if you have a chance to test and possibly return, I warmly recommend the sony ... fit might be a different topic as ears vary ...


Thanks a lot!!


----------



## mymail0808

clerkpalmer said:


> Can't speak for the H1 although they look quite nice. As between Bose and Sony, Bose all day long if fit matters to you. The Sony is fatally flawed in the fit category. Some people prefer the richer warmer sq of the Sony but I think the Bose go toe to toe with them provided you like the Bose house sound.


Thanks a lot!!


----------



## Tommy C

dweaver said:


> Have some complys that should fit. Will try them out tomorrow. The stock sound is ever so close to perfect lol.



I know it’s apples and oranges but do you prefer the az70 or the Kef Motion One better for strictly sound quality and imaging?


----------



## TK33

regancipher said:


> I know FIIL get a lot of love here already, but for those looking to order through Amazon US, big reductions tomorrow:
> 
> My review for the T1XS here : (5 stars)
> 
> ...


Looks like the T1X are on sale again for Black Friday.


----------



## Tommy C

I currently own the Jabra Sport Elite and been using them for 2 years. They are very reliable with great workout app and heartbeat monitor but looking for something better in terms of sq and so far narrowed down the list to:
Cambridge Audio Melomania 1
Creative Outlier gold
Technics AZ70
Jabra t75
Sony WF-1000 XM3
Bose Sporte earbud (new model)

Any houghts and recommendation are welcomed.


----------



## srinivasvignesh

Need recommendation tws, for really small ears. Both the ear canal and the outside.


----------



## slex

srinivasvignesh said:


> Need recommendation tws, for really small ears. Both the ear canal and the outside.


Soul st-xx


----------



## srinivasvignesh

Thank you


----------



## Pelicampe

Hard question but if anyone got the answer ?!

Looking for chifi TWS with neutral and realistic sound, I'm really interested by Fiil T1 Pro.

I see they just released T1 lite.

Anyone know Fiil strategy enough for say if they use the same driver and amp section like in Pro version ? And so, got the same sound quality.

Have they just supress ANC and other features to cut price ?.


Thanks


----------



## slex

Pelicampe said:


> Hard question but if anyone got the answer ?!
> 
> Looking for chifi TWS with neutral and realistic sound, I'm really interested by Fiil T1 Pro.
> 
> ...


You want the best go for Pro. I have the FiilT1XS for the light & small fit. Sound is well balanced with good extension in high and low if source permit. You need a good fitting seal ear tips to suppress outside noise . I'm using epro TWS horn tips.


----------



## slex

srinivasvignesh said:


> Thank you


You're welcome.


----------



## itoosh

Any suggestion for basic TWS for calls? Most get pair in this BF for my big brother  
Calls & comfort.
Thanks!


----------



## TK33

itoosh said:


> Any suggestion for basic TWS for calls? Most get pair in this BF for my big brother
> Calls & comfort.
> Thanks!


Still a fan of the Galaxy Buds Live.  Use it for calls everyday.


----------



## webvan

Bose QC Earbuds review is available on RTings : https://www.rtings.com/headphones/reviews/bose/quietcomfort-earbuds-truly-wireless
They quite like them and found their ANC feature to be great...but fail to mention that they don't have much passive isolation and don't even mention their semi-open design ! Also they missed the fact that ANC can't be turned off. Their measure of overall isolation is slightly below the Amazon Echo Buds as I'd found, particularly for the treble due to the lack of a strong passive isolation and much better than the MTW2

Overall Attenuation    -22.31 dB   vs  -23.86 dB
Bass         -20.03 dB   vs  -17.56 dB
Mid            -17.03 dB vs  -19.84 dB
Treble       -29.31 dB  vs  -34.21 dB


----------



## dweaver (Nov 27, 2020)

Tommy C said:


> I know it’s apples and oranges but do you prefer the az70 or the Kef Motion One better for strictly sound quality and imaging?


I will stick to pure sonic impressions as everything else as you said is apples and oranges.

Out of the box the AZ70 is much more detailed but the KEF is a bit more musical. But with a tiny bit of EQ tweaking (will try some foam tips to see if I can eliminate EQ) the AZ70 becomes as musical with all that added detail.

The KEF has more warmth which I like so long as its not too much. Bass wise they are similar but maybe a slight edge to the AZ70. I think the AZ70 has more treble detail. My EQ added just a bit more bass oomph and more importantly just a smidge more warmth.

Forgot to talk about imaging. I think the AZ70 is slightly more expansive. I am not sure which offers the best 3d imaging as this is harder to go by memory. The AZ70 is not as good as the best 3d imaging IEMs I have owned such as the XBA-Z5 but that's a BIG pair of shoes to fill. But its certainly not  bad either, I would say it above average  and better than any TW I have owned or tried.


----------



## Tommy C

dweaver said:


> I will stick to pure sonic impressions as everything else as you said is apples and oranges.
> 
> Out of the box the AZ70 is much more detailed but the KEF is a bit more musical. But with a tiny bit of EQ tweaking (will try some foam tips to see if I can eliminate EQ) the AZ70 becomes as musical with all that added detail.
> 
> ...


Thanks bud, much appreciated.


----------



## slex

itoosh said:


> Any suggestion for basic TWS for calls? Most get pair in this BF for my big brother
> Calls & comfort.
> Thanks!


Great value , edifier X3. My wife enjoys it😄


----------



## jasonb

TK33 said:


> Still a fan of the Galaxy Buds Live.  Use it for calls everyday.



The buds live are a bit expensive if the main concern is just calls.


----------



## howdy

Anyone see the new Nokia TWs? Them seem really nice but I wonder how they sound.


----------



## TK33

jasonb said:


> The buds live are a bit expensive if the main concern is just calls.


That's what I use them for almost exclusively and I have found them to be excellent for calls (much better than the other TWS I own which cost me more). To me they were worth the cost at full price when I got them and I just use them for calls. I didn't see many other suggestions.  If there are TWS with better call quality then I would be interested as well. The Galaxy Buds Live were on sale for Black Friday so I thought they would be worth mentioning.

I think whether they are expensive is subjective and depends on the person and each person should decide what is or is not worth it to them on their own. I really like my Galaxy Buds Live and think their open design is perfect for calls.  I understand they are not for everyone and many may disagree.  That ia fine. 

My opinion is they are worth it not only for calls but as an overall package (even though I hate that Samsung refuses to use aptX and doesn't support aptX HD on their phones). Because of COVID, I have really only used them for work calls and have been very happy.  You are entitled to your opinion that they are a bit expensive for calls and I can respect that but I would not put it out there as an objective fact (I assume you did not mean to but your response could be interpreted that way).


----------



## The Apostle

*BUMP*



The Apostle said:


> Hoping to get some feedback and suggestions.  I m looking for a new pair of TWS that will be used on conference calls, that at times, is a slightly noisy office.  Currently I switch back and forth between the Jabra Elite 65t and Plantronics Voyager 6200.  Both have their pluses and minuses and I am probably tying to fill an unattainable voided.  Nonetheless, here I am.  LOL.  Here is what I am looking for and how the current handle those situations.
> 
> ANC
> Ability to turn off hear through
> ...


----------



## dweaver

Hi Apostle, the AZ70 has ANC, does not pass through outside sound when on a phone call (does not have an option to turn it on either), has a good seal. Sounds very good (not as bassy as most consumer TW though). My wife said cars and when I was in a store and went by a noisy cart were present but very muffled in her words cars were like a whisper.

Panasonic also has the cheaper RZ-S500 which some say has a bit more bass. But not sure how good it is for ANC and calls as it has less microphones.

I got my AZ70 on sale for $199CAD ($150US) and the RZ-S500 is on sale for $150CAD ($125US) I believe they may also be on sale in the US as well.


----------



## bladefd

Anyone try the Sennheiser cx 400bt?? Thinking of buying it.. Price is like $130 currently on Amazon, which is nice unlike the $200 it was on release. I just wonder about comfort. I have no way of trying them without buying, and I don't know if Amazon would accept a return on IEMs if I used them couple times and then decide to return. Hmmm...


----------



## dweaver

From what I hear its the same driver as the MTW2 but stripped back functionality. No ANC, note sure what other features they stripped out. So think original MTW but with less features. At $130 if you like the Sennheiser signature sound it will be very good.


----------



## bladefd

dweaver said:


> From what I hear its the same driver as the MTW2 but stripped back functionality. No ANC, note sure what other features they stripped out. So think original MTW but with less features. At $130 if you like the Sennheiser signature sound it will be very good.



Yeah, that's what I read. Just not sure about the comfort.

Anyone know if Amazon is good with returning IEMs??


----------



## dweaver

They are smaller than the MTW2 and the MTW. I own the MTW and liked it a fair amount for comfort. So if these are smaller I suspect they will be more comfortable. As for Amazon I think they let you return opened products so long as you don't abuse the process.


----------



## Toom

dweaver said:


> They are smaller than the MTW2 and the MTW. I own the MTW and liked it a fair amount for comfort. So if these are smaller I suspect they will be more comfortable. As for Amazon I think they let you return opened products so long as you don't abuse the process.



I wonder though if the new 'audiophile tuning' that Senn recently introduced for the MTW2 via the Smart Control app would also apply for the cx-400bt? Perhaps not.

I really like what this new tuning brings to the MTW2s - its a big improvement to my ears.


----------



## smith

Don't know if that will happen. Any other Victor label stuff in the UK?? The little things are great and will suit me well till the next gen stuff. Actually would love the same exact thing with the new tech. The case is great with the angled bud seating. The small size and weight is perfect. I did get the eartips to go with these...

Which do sound a bit better and make the fit easier if not better. Outside of putting in Qi and adaptive instead of just aptX these have been just what I was hoping for in the three things I wanted. Work great without issue, sound great, and I got that even less obtrusive level with the smaller size and weight and easy fit with great comfort. The basic things wireless is about done well with zero complaints and makes me wonder if I'll grab any of my other models and know I am not looking for anything else for a long while. Just realize when it is good and stick with it and enjoy!
[/QUOTE]


To my surprise they are available ( imported)on Amazon uk ..really tempted ! ..how are you finding them now after a good few days of using them..my only concern is the fit ..do they stay ..do they stick out a lot.....


----------



## jant71 (Nov 28, 2020)

smith said:


> Don't know if that will happen. Any other Victor label stuff in the UK?? The little things are great and will suit me well till the next gen stuff. Actually would love the same exact thing with the new tech. The case is great with the angled bud seating. The small size and weight is perfect. I did get the eartips to go with these...
> 
> Which do sound a bit better and make the fit easier if not better. Outside of putting in Qi and adaptive instead of just aptX these have been just what I was hoping for in the three things I wanted. Work great without issue, sound great, and I got that even less obtrusive level with the smaller size and weight and easy fit with great comfort. The basic things wireless is about done well with zero complaints and makes me wonder if I'll grab any of my other models and know I am not looking for anything else for a long while. Just realize when it is good and stick with it and enjoy!




To my surprise they are available ( imported)on Amazon uk ..really tempted ! ..how are you finding them now after a good few days of using them..my only concern is the fit ..do they stay ..do they stick out a lot.....
[/QUOTE]

I tested them out yesterday shooting some hoops at the park. They don't come with fins or anything cause they don't need then. The shape and weight don't let them fall out. I was using the SF tips as well so with the regular Spiral Dot they come with will make them stay even more if I needed but I didn't need.

They can stick out a bit more or less depending on the length of the tip used tip used. For me it is about 4 to 7mm at the front. Just right for me. You want to still wear a hat and hoods without issue and have enough to grasp to insert and remove easily and stick out a little to aid in reception. I don't have big ears btw and use the M tips that came installed. Quick shot...


----------



## regancipher

TK33 said:


> That's what I use them for almost exclusively and I have found them to be excellent for calls (much better than the other TWS I own which cost me more). To me they were worth the cost at full price when I got them and I just use them for calls. I didn't see many other suggestions.  If there are TWS with better call quality then I would be interested as well. The Galaxy Buds Live were on sale for Black Friday so I thought they would be worth mentioning.
> 
> I think whether they are expensive is subjective and depends on the person and each person should decide what is or is not worth it to them on their own. I really like my Galaxy Buds Live and think their open design is perfect for calls.  I understand they are not for everyone and many may disagree.  That ia fine.
> 
> My opinion is they are worth it not only for calls but as an overall package (even though I hate that Samsung refuses to use aptX and doesn't support aptX HD on their phones). Because of COVID, I have really only used them for work calls and have been very happy.  You are entitled to your opinion that they are a bit expensive for calls and I can respect that but I would not put it out there as an objective fact (I assume you did not mean to but your response could be interpreted that way).


They are the best I've tested for calls by some distance. Every other earbud either lets everything through or compresses the hell out of everything and sounds muffled. 

At the top end of the former are the Boltune BT-BH024, Omthing Airfree and 1More Colorbuds, the latter category are the FIIL T1 Pro and Tronsmart Apollo Bold. 

The Buds Live are in another league to the the rest of those I've mentioned, and they were the best of the rest


----------



## VICosPhi

Deal on 1st gen MTW and MW07 on Woot USA

MW07 for $95
https://sellout.woot.com/offers/master-dynamic-mw07-true-wireless-earphones-8
MTW for $99
https://sellout.woot.com/offers/sennheiser-momentum-true-wireless-bluetooth-earbuds-2


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## dweaver (Nov 28, 2020)

Did some tip rolling on the AZ70 today and comply tips warm up the sound a bit and add bass but also affect the treble a bit. In my digging around I found some good old Sony hybrid tips and those do the trick nicely they give the bass more punch without affecting the treble. To me they are the best tips I own, they seem to make so many IEM sound and fit better. One of Sonys better inventions in my opinion.


----------



## TK33

VICosPhi said:


> Deal on 1st gen MTW and MW07 on Woot USA
> 
> MW07 for $95
> https://sellout.woot.com/offers/master-dynamic-mw07-true-wireless-earphones-8
> ...


Wish I saw this earlier...MTW sold out already.


----------



## GregBe

TK33 said:


> Wish I saw this earlier...MTW sold out already.


I know, me too!  

Is the MW07 at $95 or has technology surpassed it, even at that price?


----------



## Tommy C

GregBe said:


> I know, me too!
> 
> Is the MW07 at $95 or has technology surpassed it, even at that price?


Their battery life sucks (3 hrs or less) and no apps or special functions. Not too long ago they were considered one of the best for sq if not THE best. You can often find them heavily discounted on Amazon Warehouse deals.


----------



## GregBe

Tommy C said:


> Their battery life sucks (3 hrs or less) and no apps or special functions. Not too long ago they were considered one of the best for sq if not THE best. You can often find them heavily discounted on Amazon Warehouse deals.


Thanks.  The ONLY criteria I am looking at is sound quality and comfort.  Not overly concerned about battery life as I wouldn't use them for long stints and have B&W PX7s for when I need ANC.  I'm intrigued.


----------



## Tommy C

GregBe said:


> Thanks.  The ONLY criteria I am looking at is sound quality and comfort.  Not overly concerned about battery life as I wouldn't use them for long stints and have B&W PX7s for when I need ANC.  I'm intrigued.



I believe the sq is still good. I don’t own them but demoed them long time ego. 
for $95 I don’t think you can go wrong but I also think that they didn’t age well in terms or functions which you’ve mentioned you don’t care about. The Technics AZ70 were on sale on Amazon a few days ago for around $100 for the silver version so if that deal is back, based on what I’m reading my money would go to the Technics.


----------



## GregBe

Tommy C said:


> I believe the sq is still good. I don’t own them but demoed them long time ego.
> for $95 I don’t think you can go wrong but I also think that they didn’t age well in terms or functions which you’ve mentioned you don’t care about. The Technics AZ70 were on sale on Amazon a few days ago for around $100 for the silver version so if that deal is back, based on what I’m reading my money would go to the Technics.


I think the Technics are really what I am after.  I missed the white ones when they dropped to that price.  I have been checking to see if Amazon drops the price again.  I almost pulled the trigger at $165 a few times but keep waiting (maybe foolishly for them to drop back to $115)


----------



## dweaver

If you like delicate sounding detailed headphones the AZ70 is simply amazing. When I say delicate I mean they pull out all the nuances of your music. Sonically speaking they are somewhere between AKG and Sennheiser in that they are warmer than AKG with better sub bass but not as warm as Sennheiser and treble more like AKG than Sennheiser. 

These are not a good option if you want a bass heavy signature but are great if you want bass than goes deep when needed but is not be present all the time.


----------



## helmutcheese (Nov 28, 2020)

HiddenUser said:


> Is this neckband comfortable for the bed? Did you test it by watching TV/movies?



All my Soundpeats headband earphones were fine in bed, they do not bother me and the neck part does not move about as you lie on your back or side, also the P14's were thinner at rear and ideally I would not want to wear a expensive pair in bed.

I do not wear ear/headphones for anything bar music while out and about and sleeping to cut out outside noise (apart from testing), I do not see the point as all my games/TV/movies are 5.1 and do not like the effect of the video being in front of me and the audio being in my head.


----------



## bladefd (Nov 28, 2020)

dweaver said:


> If you like delicate sounding detailed headphones the AZ70 is simply amazing. When I say delicate I mean they pull out all the nuances of your music. Sonically speaking they are somewhere between AKG and Sennheiser in that they are warmer than AKG with better sub bass but not as warm as Sennheiser and treble more like AKG than Sennheiser.
> 
> These are not a good option if you want a bass heavy signature but are great if you want bass than goes deep when needed but is not be present all the time.



How do you think AZ70 compares to MTW2, which have same driver as Sennheiser cx 400bt, in overall quality? I'm currently down to cx 400bt, AZ70 and Sony WF-1000XM3. Those are my 3 options in my price range around $150-165.

I listen to classical, rock and pop music for 2 hours every night while reading a book or news articles before sleeping. I don't plan on working out with them or riding a train to work. I need them to be comfortable and sound good while lying down in bed.

What would you suggest for that situation? I want to order before tomorrow so I am doing a lot of googling tonight, reading reviews.


----------



## dweaver

Unfortunately I have not heard any of those but I own the original MTW and owned multiple Sony IEMs and products. From what I have read the WF1000XM3 is more balanced sounding than the overear 1000XM3 so sounds like it will be more balanced sounding. If that is the case they will likely be like my 910N which means they will have more bass presence than the AZ70 but will be less detailed in the midrange and slightly subdued in the treble making them good for loud listening and if you struggle with to much treble and if you really like a heavier bass presence.

The original MTW was a bit to much on the warm side and while it had decent sound stage it was not very detailed. The AZ70 on the other hand has plenty of detail and is not as warm as it closer to an AKG type signature. I find it slightly colder than I prefer using stock tips and no EQ. But I find either switching tips or using the EQ I can easily fix that coldness making them just right for warmth.

If having ANC is important I would go either Sony or AZ70. They all have app support so are more or less equal in that regard. The AZ70 is the only one of the bunch with water resistance. Battery wise the Sony is the best followed by Sennheiser, then AZ70 but the AZ70 is going to be very close to the Senns in this regard.

I just read the Senns are more like the MTW for comfort versus the MTW2. So if that is the case them and the AZ70 will be similar in this regard. The Sony on the hand has a completely different form factor and will stick out of the alot more making them less stable but possibly more comfortable. The Soundcore Liberty 2 Pro have a similar design but have a wingtip to help hold them in more securely. Based on my L2P when not having the wing I think the Senn and AZ70 will be more secure but a smidge less comfortable.

I listen to lots of classical, jazz, celtic, classic rock, and older rock music, and acoustical music and the AZ70 seems way better suited for those genres in my opinion. Not much of a pop music listener so can't say in that area. Did try some Infected Mushroom though and really enjoyed them with that genre as well.

Sorry  lots to sort in those paragraphs but hope that helps.


----------



## Tommy C

It will be interesting to compare the Technics AZ70 Vs. Jabra t75 - sounds like their sound signature is pretty comparable.


----------



## jibberish

@dweaver your posts helped push me over the line to buy the AZ70. Looking forward to getting my set on Tuesday.


----------



## bladefd

dweaver said:


> Unfortunately I have not heard any of those but I own the original MTW and owned multiple Sony IEMs and products. From what I have read the WF1000XM3 is more balanced sounding than the overear 1000XM3 so sounds like it will be more balanced sounding. If that is the case they will likely be like my 910N which means they will have more bass presence than the AZ70 but will be less detailed in the midrange and slightly subdued in the treble making them good for loud listening and if you struggle with to much treble and if you really like a heavier bass presence.
> 
> The original MTW was a bit to much on the warm side and while it had decent sound stage it was not very detailed. The AZ70 on the other hand has plenty of detail and is not as warm as it closer to an AKG type signature. I find it slightly colder than I prefer using stock tips and no EQ. But I find either switching tips or using the EQ I can easily fix that coldness making them just right for warmth.
> 
> ...



After reading your post, I backed down from the Sony. They are quite a bit bulkier/heavier than the other 2 and would stick out. No aptx. I like to keep down the volume and don't really need a lot of bass. It's $40 more than cx 400bt. 1 year warranty. Don't think I will be getting these. Can't justify the extra $40 since I don't require ANC for my needs.

AZ70 is the tough one. It seems it comes very close to Sennheiser. Both are fairly new so reviews are bit limited. AZ70 has no aptx, costs $40 more, 1yr warranty so many of the same cons. It seems smaller though and lighter, which is nice, and obviously has more functions. I will have to decide if it's worth the $40 extra. At least my focus is now down to these 2 candidates.


----------



## dweaver (Nov 29, 2020)

jibberish said:


> @dweaver your posts helped push me over the line to buy the AZ70. Looking forward to getting my set on Tuesday.



Hope you enjoy them, I know I am 



bladefd said:


> After reading your post, I backed down from the Sony. They are quite a bit bulkier/heavier than the other 2 and would stick out. No aptx. I like to keep down the volume and don't really need a lot of bass. It's $40 more than cx 400bt. 1 year warranty. Don't think I will be getting these. Can't justify the extra $40 since I don't require ANC for my needs.
> 
> AZ70 is the tough one. It seems it comes very close to Sennheiser. Both are fairly new so reviews are bit limited. AZ70 has no aptx, costs $40 more, 1yr warranty so many of the same cons. It seems smaller though and lighter, which is nice, and obviously has more functions. I will have to decide if it's worth the $40 extra. At least my focus is now down to these 2 candidates.



That's a tough one to say. $40 is a lot and the Sennheisers are likely very good sounding and the warranty is nice to have.  I suspect the difference in sound is able to be tweaked via EQ so won't have to be the deciding factor.

The addition of ANC if not important to you is just an added expense. The only other big difference is the Senn have no water proofing while the AZ70 are IPX4 rated so can take lite rain and sweat.  But not sure if that important for you or not. If not I am sure the Senns will be good. I know I enjoyed my MTW alot until they died.

Truth be told my MTW issues soured me a bit on trying Sennheiser again. But I am sure they learned their lessons from that 1st gen product. My MTW had the notorious battery issue so they were always dead when I wanted to use them, the case broke at the hinge, and with 2 years of light use they suddenly stopped charging all issue which annoy the heck out of me considering I paid $300+ for them.


----------



## dweaver

Tommy C said:


> It will be interesting to compare the Technics AZ70 Vs. Jabra t75 - sounds like their sound signature is pretty comparable.


I have not tried Jabra In ear products, just their over ear 85H. Been tempted a few times but just have never felt compelled to do it. It doesn't help that they can't be returned at most Canadian stores and obviously are never set up for testing.

Some day I will rectify that. If you get the AZ70 I will be very interested in your comparison.


----------



## fursan7

Gokuz said:


> Someone should fire this guy,
> 
> I thought he would make a good video based on what we are discussing but nope, he just randomly buying crap. Heck, he could use @scarbir reviews as a base point.



Super trash video. It could easily mislead people to buying garbage tws.


----------



## Tommy C (Nov 29, 2020)

dweaver said:


> I have not tried Jabra In ear products, just their over ear 85H. Been tempted a few times but just have never felt compelled to do it. It doesn't help that they can't be returned at most Canadian stores and obviously are never set up for testing.
> 
> Some day I will rectify that. If you get the AZ70 I will be very interested in your comparison.



I have the Jabra Elite Sport V2 that I purchased 2.5 yrs ago. They are reliable and built like a tank including the case and had served me very well. The signature is bassy, not warm but just decent enough. If you listen to high quality source they are good.  As pair of gym TWE and a knock around pair they are great but sound quality gotten better I’m sure with newer products. 
walmart.ca has a good deal certified refurbished of the t75.
https://www.walmart.ca/en/ip/Jabra-Elite-75t-Black-Certified-Refurbished/7DXJUHY1MNR4


----------



## nabuhodonozor

Looking for cheap BT earbuds for working out etc found SOUNDPEATS Q35HD which have BT5.0 ,14h on battery ,AptX HD support and magnetic charging .Seems too good for $25.

they're not TWS but has no over ear bulk or any of those stiff sausage type battery packs.


----------



## Tommy C

nabuhodonozor said:


> Looking for cheap BT earbuds for working out etc found SOUNDPEATS Q35HD which have BT5.0 ,14h on battery ,AptX HD support and magnetic charging .Seems too good for $25.
> 
> they're not TWS but has no over ear bulk or any of those stiff sausage type battery packs.


For only a few dollars more you can get something else and get rid of the cables once and for all. 
I think there are better options out there.


----------



## nabuhodonozor

Tommy C said:


> For only a few dollars more you can get something else and get rid of the cables once and for all.
> I think there are better options out there.



Examples?


----------



## Tommy C (Nov 29, 2020)

nabuhodonozor said:


> Examples?



There many recommendations around here for brands such as Havit, QCY, Edifier and a bunch of other ChiFI options.
just a few options below but I’ll let those who know more about these options chime in.

https://www.amazon.com/Xiaomi-Earph...s/dp/B07TZHNN92/ref=psdc_172541_t1_B089GVYDJD

https://www.amazon.com/Xiaomi-True-...3CEN9BP0VKM&psc=1&refRID=P5VS5142K3CEN9BP0VKM

https://www.amazon.com/EarFun-Bluet...s=ALTEC+Lansing+earbuds&qid=1606663004&sr=8-5

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/400...54dec7344b59a24f22480816ff8c&tmLog=new_Detail

https://www.amazon.com/Airdots-Wireless-Earphone-Charging-TWSEJ05LS/dp/B08B1BNCJX

https://www.amazon.com/Altec-Lansin...s=ALTEC+Lansing+earbuds&qid=1606663004&sr=8-3


----------



## clerkpalmer

Audio 46 has the CX 400BT for $149 for Cyber Monday.


----------



## Thesonofkrypton

bladefd said:


> How do you think AZ70 compares to MTW2, which have same driver as Sennheiser cx 400bt, in overall quality? I'm currently down to cx 400bt, AZ70 and Sony WF-1000XM3. Those are my 3 options in my price range around $150-165.
> 
> I listen to classical, rock and pop music for 2 hours every night while reading a book or news articles before sleeping. I don't plan on working out with them or riding a train to work. I need them to be comfortable and sound good while lying down in bed.
> 
> What would you suggest for that situation? I want to order before tomorrow so I am doing a lot of googling tonight, reading reviews.



Having listened to them all, you will not be disappointed with the Sonys, they're the best sounding pair of the lot, although if you have particularly small ear canals you may have an issue with fit.


----------



## jant71 (Nov 29, 2020)

clerkpalmer said:


> Audio 46 has the CX 400BT for $149 for Cyber Monday.



Normal sale price it goes on quite often and from pretty early since it doesn't(and shouldn't) sell well at $199. Currently $129.98 on Amazon.


----------



## BigZ12

Tommy C said:


> For only a few dollars more you can get something else and get rid of the cables once and for all.
> I think there are better options out there.





nabuhodonozor said:


> Examples?



Not with AptX HD, 14 hours of battery. The neck band headsets do also very often have lower latency and less sync issues, when watching tv/movies/playing games, than cheap TWSs.
Buy the Soundpeats if those specs are essentials. (I have the Soundpeats Q12 plus and I'm pleased with them)


----------



## Tommy C (Nov 29, 2020)

BigZ12 said:


> Not with AptX HD, 14 hours of battery. The neck band headsets do also very often have lower latency and less sync issues, when watching tv/movies/playing games, than cheap TWSs.
> Buy the Soundpeats if those specs are essentials. (I have the Soundpeats Q12 plus and I'm pleased with them)



I know what you mean and since he asked for a working out pair of earphones based on my experience, you just need them to sound decent with solid connection and good battery life.  With the beyond the ear cable or without it, around $25 it won’t be HiFi so may as well have the convenience of fully wireless earbuds.
The Soundpeats q12 were decent back in the day but those been around for almost 5 years if I remember correctly. Technology has improved a lot since then.


----------



## dweaver (Nov 29, 2020)

Just tried the AZ70 with Glitch Mob Drink the Sea and found them very good for that genre. Probably not the best tract for bass though. Can anyone suggest and give  youtube link to a song similar to Glitch Mob and Infected Mushroom I could test that has big bass in it?

They kick a$$ for Pink Floyd btw


----------



## BigZ12

Tommy C said:


> I know what you mean and since he asked for a working out pair of earphones based on my experience, you just need them to sound decent with solid connection and good battery life.  With the beyond the ear cable or without it, around $25 it won’t be HiFi so may as well have the convenience of fully wireless earbuds.
> The Soundpeats q12 were decent back in the day but those been around for almost 5 years if I remember correctly. Technology has improved a lot since then.


There's been updated versions every year. My Q12 Plus has BT5.0, AptX HD, AptX LL and sound very good. Better than most TWS I've tested.


----------



## BigZ12

dweaver said:


> Just tried the AZ70 with Glitch Mob Drink the Sea and found them very good for that genre. Probably not the best tract for bass though. Can anyone suggest and give  youtube link to a song similar to Glitch Mob and Infected Mushroom I could test that has big bass in it?
> 
> They kick a$$ for Pink Floyd btw



I love testing my headphones and speakers with this one.


----------



## regancipher

I've been preparing a review on the soundpeats sonic today. 

Soundpeats and budget earbuds have come a long way in 12 months. Sound quality and sound stage are both remarkable for the money. 

Such a shame the fit is awful - they thud more than any other earbuds I've tested in about 6 months, and almost stick out further than my ears. 

I feel like Soundpeats are learning though. They won't fit awful for everyone and for £33 they're very impressive compared with the rubbish I tested from them a year or so ago


----------



## helmutcheese

Lets hope the H1 do not behave same as the Sonic in that when you disconnect from a device they enter auto pairing mode (this is not ideal and imagine being outside and rebooting you phone), not sure if they actually re-pair each time or remember more than one device (all my SoundPeats earphones allow at lease 3 devices).

The strange thing is there is a manual pairing mode (via button presses) so I may wipe them and try again.

The fit is not ideal esp for my larger canals, the included S/M/L buds all too small (totally tinny sound with no bass and hanging downwards in my ears as no wings )They did not give any of their XL's tips in the kit.

I used my SpinFits and they still fit the charging case but although like many users find these make the sound better they are poor for noise isolation (I have very good hearing, a curse in fact).

Also no volume headroom, I can listen to these 100% but normally I am 80-90% I guess but some albums need 100%, going by reviews the H1's are said to be very loud (I hope so).

Battery life seem very good but that advertised 15 hours @ 60% is SBC Codec as they say on their Japan site it will be 3-25% less with aptX/other codecs.


----------



## bladefd

dweaver said:


> Hope you enjoy them, I know I am
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Yeah, it's a tough one. I'm ordering both and returning the one I like less. There is nothing to lose since Amazon will take it back. I will have 2 weeks to decide.

Thanks for the help, brotha!


----------



## bladefd (Nov 29, 2020)

I should mention that AZ70 currently has 10% cashback if you use Amazon prime creditcard! $165 cost would be $149 as long as you have a Prime card. Just a heads up for others.


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## dweaver (Nov 30, 2020)

BigZ12 said:


> I love testing my headphones and speakers with this one.



Well that song has lots of oomph to it for me. Not subwoofer level but it was enough I could feel it at the deepest beats. Cool song.

I usually use a song from Becka Shae called Rest which has a huge bass portion at the beginning of the song and the AZ70 goes immensely deep on that song as well. I think it just doesn't have a big mid bass presence or try to force bass when its not present. For my testing it certainly can go low when required though.


----------



## bladefd

Anyone know if it is it possible to connect 2 separate bluetooth earbuds to a single source (Google Pixel 3 in this situation)? It would allow me to do A/B testing with 1 bud each from separate sets connected to my ears. I'm not too familiar with this sort of testing and whether it is doable with a smartphone. 

I could always use 2 separate smartphones and hit play at same time, but that would be more cumbersome to get the timings perfect if I wanted to rewind/fast-forward certain tracks - it is certainly an option I could try. It would be awesome if instead I can link both pairs to a single source.


----------



## srinivasvignesh

Other than APP/Galaxy Buds+, what is the best TWS for calls being the highest priority (eliminating background noise when speaking is paramount)?


----------



## regancipher

helmutcheese said:


> Lets hope the H1 do not behave same as the Sonic in that when you disconnect from a device they enter auto pairing mode (this is not ideal and imagine being outside and rebooting you phone), not sure if they actually re-pair each time or remember more than one device (all my SoundPeats earphones allow at lease 3 devices).
> 
> The strange thing is there is a manual pairing mode (via button presses) so I may wipe them and try again.
> 
> ...


Yep, I'm in the doghouse today after Audible ran to the end of the sleep timer and my bedroom turned into a rave at 2am....not what the accountant dealing with month end in the room was hoping for this morning!

The fit is exactly like you say. They're top heavy and bounce around all over the place when you're exercising. Such a shame.


----------



## Adnen Ayed

erockg said:


> Had them for about three hours today.  Returning them.  The Jabra 85T and the MTW2 blow them away.  Yamaha's app is terrible.  Amazon sent me a box of 6 by accident.  Only charged me for one.  Sadly, I'm sending all 6 back.  Love Yamaha, but this is a first gen product.  Charging case is huge.  Buds do not have auto pause when you take them out.  They feel a bit cheap.  The app is terrible.  Sound is fine.  Nothing to rave about.  No EQ, nada.  I can't even walk into the other room, maybe 20-30 feet and the bt connection cuts out.  Oh well.  Hope you all have better luck with them than I did.


Wow, six!


----------



## regancipher

Soundpeats Sonic Review


----------



## Thesonofkrypton

Hoping to see some RHA True Control reviews shortly.  I know they're trying to catch the Xmas period with the release date but seriously, they should have waited until some reviews were in the wild before releasing them.


----------



## funkbass4

Looking for a gift for my sister. She has requested wireless earbuds with some water resistance so she can wear them working out. I'd like to spend $150 or less. I've found the Jabra Elite 75t so far. Any other suggestions would be appreciated!


----------



## chinmie

https://www.gsmarena.com/samsung_galaxy_buds_pro_pass_fcc_certification-news-46504.php

new Gbuds plus with ANC seems to be brewing


----------



## danimoca

Anyone here tried the Audiofly AFT2?

I bought them on a massive discount and was still extremely disappointed on the sound. 

Very harsh mids and overall unrefined sound. So much worse than my 1more Stylish's.

They do have impeccable build quality and feel like the price they normally are. But just that.


----------



## Laethageal

dweaver said:


> Just tried the AZ70 with Glitch Mob Drink the Sea and found them very good for that genre. Probably not the best tract for bass though. Can anyone suggest and give  youtube link to a song similar to Glitch Mob and Infected Mushroom I could test that has big bass in it?
> 
> They kick a$$ for Pink Floyd btw


Did I just hear Infected Mushroom? Good old Missed symphony


----------



## Tommy C

What’s the verdict on the MASTER & DYNAMIC MW07 Go. I’m able to get them heavily discounted locally. 
Sigh so many options around here while I was taking a long break from everything.


----------



## dweaver

Gave The Missed Symphony a listen and that a cool track too its a lot busier and the bass line is not quite as deep as Avatraz possibly because it is more busy. But the bass is still good to my ears. I am sure many will prefer more bass but I enjoyed it as I heard it and enjoyed having everything else be crystal clear.

Looking forward to the impressions of other that have given the AZ70 a try regardless of if they hear them the same as me or not.


----------



## clerkpalmer

Tommy C said:


> What’s the verdict on the MASTER & DYNAMIC MW07 Go. I’m able to get them heavily discounted locally.
> Sigh so many options around here while I was taking a long break from everything.


If SQ is the priority, they are pretty terrific. I couldn't get them to stay in my ears but otherwise they are solid depending on the price. No ANC. No app/eq and no AAC so if you are running an iphone they might not be ideal. Otherwise, you can do a lot worse.


----------



## Tommy C

clerkpalmer said:


> If SQ is the priority, they are pretty terrific. I couldn't get them to stay in my ears but otherwise they are solid depending on the price. No ANC. No app/eq and no AAC so if you are running an iphone they might not be ideal. Otherwise, you can do a lot worse.



Thanks! Currently looking for the best sq. ANC, hear-through and eq would have been nice and I’m a bit concerned that they don’t have an app available. I also like pretty balanced sound with nice but don’t like mids that are further back, which something that one reviewer had mentioned. For $120 it’s hard to resist.


----------



## clerkpalmer

Tommy C said:


> Thanks! Currently looking for the best sq. ANC, hear-through and eq would have been nice and I’m a bit concerned that they don’t have an app available. I also like pretty balanced sound with nice but don’t like mids that are further back, which something that one reviewer had mentioned. For $120 it’s hard to resist.



For pure sq probably not gonna do better than those for 120. But they are v shaped and colored. If you want a more balanced audiophile sound you might consider the nuarl at around that price. Not sure what review you are referring to. I know crinnacle doesn't like them but most mainstream reviews praise the sq.


----------



## trellus

Tommy C said:


> What’s the verdict on the MASTER & DYNAMIC MW07 Go. I’m able to get them heavily discounted locally.
> Sigh so many options around here while I was taking a long break from everything.



Very pleasant consumer tuning to my ears, gorgeous, too, but I rarely use them because they don't get loud enough for me at gym where it's really loud and I need a little more volume to overcome that loud environment, and they don't stay in my ears well when I lay down -- which means they just don't get used often, unfortunately.


----------



## Tommy C

trellus said:


> Very pleasant consumer tuning to my ears, gorgeous, too, but I rarely use them because they don't get loud enough for me at gym where it's really loud and I need a little more volume to overcome that loud environment, and they don't stay in my ears well when I lay down -- which means they just don't get used often, unfortunately.


Not loud enough. That concerns me a little bit. I don’t like to listen super loud but can see a scenario where it’s not loud enough outdoors.


----------



## FYLegend

I decided on the 1MORE ANC and the Earfun Free Pro, which seems to be a FIIL T1 Pro rebrand although Earfun states it is a "different" product. Was a bit reluctant to give them another chance because I was an early adopter of the Earfun Free wh My TaoTronics 94 and Samsung Galaxy Buds are starting to act up with being charged.

Was a bit disappointed overall with the TWS deals otherwise. Jabra 75t was 180$ CAD on Amazon for Black Friday but now it's back to 190$ like other places. It was also cheaper on Prime Day (150$). The only thing that has me going is the multipoint and added ANC, less so that you can only use the right earbud as the master and any channel imbalance issues reported.  Maybe it will be lower on Boxing Day.


----------



## Aevum

As always, for sound quality the AKG N400 are hard to beat, but their ANC is next to usless.


----------



## trellus

Tommy C said:


> Not loud enough. That concerns me a little bit. I don’t like to listen super loud but can see a scenario where it’s not loud enough outdoors.



It could be just me, but I've found most TWS fall a little short of the max volume I think they need for my earholes, at least in noisy environments.   A notable exception is the Klipsch T5 True Wireless.


----------



## jasonb

trellus said:


> It could be just me, but I've found most TWS fall a little short of the max volume I think they need for my earholes, at least in noisy environments.   A notable exception is the Klipsch T5 True Wireless.



I've heard a few people say something similar but every TWS I've used is loud enough for me at 40% or lower. Galaxy Buds, Lypertek Tevi, Galaxy Buds Live, Sony WF1000XM3 have all been plenty loud for my listening habits at 40% or less. I wonder if it's an issue with certain phones or an issue with the absolute volume (if it's an Android) setting being on or off. I have absolute volume on by the way, Pixel 4a, and have had same results with the 3a.


----------



## trellus

jasonb said:


> I've heard a few people say something similar but every TWS I've used is loud enough for me at 40% or lower. Galaxy Buds, Lypertek Tevi, Galaxy Buds Live, Sony WF1000XM3 have all been plenty loud for my listening habits at 40% or less. I wonder if it's an issue with certain phones or an issue with the absolute volume (if it's an Android) setting being on or off. I have absolute volume on by the way, Pixel 4a, and have had same results with the 3a.



I’m not on Android, iPhone XS here, and I've not tried any of those you've mentioned to be able to comment unfortunately, the only TWS I've had are the MW07 (needs just a little more volume in noisy environments), PowerBeats Pro (loud enough for the gym), Jabra Elite Active 65t (mostly I use those paired with my Apple Watch, running outdoors, and they're loud enough for that), Jaybird Run XT (they're loud enough for the shower and post-shower, generally, lol), and now just very recently, the KZ S2 (definitely loud enough, just got those) and the Klipsch T5 True Wireless (loud enough, and sound great).

It does also matter what the source is -- for example, Apple Music on my iPhone, playing the same exact song, plays noticeably louder than Spotify (no EQ or other DSP processing options set in the app) on my iPhone, so there's that, certainly.

But on all but the PowerBeats Pro, KZ S2, and Klipsch T5 True Wireless, in loud environments, I generally have to max the volume out.  As a rough estimation of the volumes I generally listen to with wired headphones (rough because I'm using an app on an iPhone to measure it), I tend to listen at sound levels between 78 dB - 82 dB.


----------



## dweaver

First time walking downtown for a good distance today and the AZ70 were excellent. They cut out about as much car noise as any other ANC product I have owned (made the cars a whisper) and they had only a very small bit of wind noise much less than most ANC products. I might try playing with the amount of ANC being applied to see if I can reduce that effect even further.

I have to say these are becoming the "one" for me as they do just about everything I could want in and IEM and the few things they are missing are more nice to have than needed.


----------



## TK33

jasonb said:


> I've heard a few people say something similar but every TWS I've used is loud enough for me at 40% or lower. Galaxy Buds, Lypertek Tevi, Galaxy Buds Live, Sony WF1000XM3 have all been plenty loud for my listening habits at 40% or less. I wonder if it's an issue with certain phones or an issue with the absolute volume (if it's an Android) setting being on or off. I have absolute volume on by the way, Pixel 4a, and have had same results with the 3a.


Same for me. I have the Galaxy Buds Live, Senn MTW, MW07 Go, JBL Reflect Flow and rarely go above 40% volume.  I think part of it is that some people just prefer listening at louder levels of volume than me.


----------



## trellus (Dec 1, 2020)

TK33 said:


> Same for me. I have the Galaxy Buds Live, Senn MTW, MW07 Go, JBL Reflect Flow and rarely go above 40% volume.  I think part of it is that some people just prefer listening at louder levels of volume than me.


Yeah, if I did 40% volume on MW07 (not sure but assuming the Go version is similar) at the gym listening to music? Wouldn’t be able to hear a dang thing lol.

Listening to audio books or podcasts, at home or walking the dog, on the other hand, 50% volume even on these weak, underpowered true wireless earphones are plenty loud.  There’s definitely a difference when at the gym and listening to music.

EDIT: looks more like 65% volume here at the office on this content from Shannon Sharpe on YouTube, on the MW07:


----------



## voicemaster

TK33 said:


> Same for me. I have the Galaxy Buds Live, Senn MTW, MW07 Go, JBL Reflect Flow and rarely go above 40% volume.  I think part of it is that some people just prefer listening at louder levels of volume than me.


I listen to my GBeans at around 50-60% most of the time and that is considered pretty low from my other TWS. Others, I listen at around 60-80% sometimes even max volume depending on the volume level the TWS can achieve.


----------



## TK33

voicemaster said:


> I listen to my GBeans at around 50-60% most of the time and that is considered pretty low from my other TWS. Others, I listen at around 60-80% sometimes even max volume depending on the volume level the TWS can achieve.


Interesting.  I just tried on my S9 and V60 and 50% was too loud for me on both. I do tend to listen at lower volumes though.  For example; I use a 3 1 system (2.1 for music) in my open living room/dining room and my default volume on my Denon X4300 is set at -40db (after running Audyssey) and I sometimes have to turn it down from there (MLP about 12 ft away).


----------



## nabuhodonozor

Tommy C said:


> There many recommendations around here for brands such as Havit, QCY, Edifier and a bunch of other ChiFI options.
> just a few options below but I’ll let those who know more about these options chime in.
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/Xiaomi-Earph...s/dp/B07TZHNN92/ref=psdc_172541_t1_B089GVYDJD
> ...



Hmm think for workout I'll  stick with neck cable ones - I'd prob lose lot of those TWS . Also battery time is 2/3x less


----------



## dweaver

I am also a lower volume listener using 25-35%, 50% if I want some added fun.

It actually is something I try to remember to mention when reviewing a product because some products that sound great at lower volumes might be uncomfortable at higher volumes.


----------



## regancipher

TK33 said:


> Same for me. I have the Galaxy Buds Live, Senn MTW, MW07 Go, JBL Reflect Flow and rarely go above 40% volume.  I think part of it is that some people just prefer listening at louder levels of volume than me.


I feel you. I had the Soundpeats Sonic on 60% for about an hour of testing yesterday and I still feel like horses are galloping through my central nervous system.


----------



## Tronsmart Official

Spiritual question:
Is there any on interested in Bluetooth speaker?


----------



## Mouseman

@Tronsmart Official . IMHO, there are a lot of BT speakers out there already, done quite well. You'd have to include some unique features to stand out. 

But how about some updates to the firmware for the Apollo Bolds? I'd love to see that.


----------



## FYLegend

On my Galaxy Buds+ and TaoTronics SoundLiberty 94 I generally listen above 80%. I find treble and midrange detail better at low volumes, but then background noise becomes too noticeable.


----------



## Bobbetybob

Finally got these little guys, sound fantastic so far, very low profile and comfy too from an hour or so of listening. 

Also some of the best packaging of any TWS I've purchased, puts the Galaxy Buds to shame and even better than the MW07 Go in some ways.


----------



## HiddenUser (Dec 2, 2020)

helmutcheese said:


> Lets hope the H1 do not behave same as the Sonic in that when you disconnect from a device they enter auto pairing mode (this is not ideal and imagine being outside and rebooting you phone), not sure if they actually re-pair each time or remember more than one device (all my SoundPeats earphones allow at lease 3 devices).
> 
> The strange thing is there is a manual pairing mode (via button presses) so I may wipe them and try again.
> 
> ...


It looks like the H1 will be a bit better than the Sonic, because the H1 has a 'hybrid' dual driver and the Sonic only has a dynamic driver for everything (bass, mids and highs). Both have the QCC3040, an entry-level BT chip.

Do you know the release date for Europe?

On the other hand, I'm still debating between the Aurvana Trio Wireless neckband and the H1 (when available). On paper, the Aurvana should sound better than the H1 thanks to its triple driver setup. But I would be happy with a balance between sound and comfort, so a fully TWS dual driver solution could be enough for me. Also the game mode could be as good as that the aptX LL of the Aurvana, I suppose.

PS. The H1 is already listed on the official aptX compatibility site. Note that this site claims that the H1 is also compatible with aptX HD, whereas Soundpeats claim that it's only compatible with aptX Adaptive.


----------



## helmutcheese

Yes I am having talks with Lenovo/Moto and SoundPeats as I am stuck on aptX on Amazon Music HD etc with the Sonics as Moto Z2F does not support Adaptive but it should fall back to HD.


----------



## Robius

Looks like there is a new aptX standart with the new Snapdragon 888 chipset.


----------



## HiddenUser

helmutcheese said:


> Yes I am having talks with Lenovo/Moto and SoundPeats as I am stuck on aptX on Amazon Music HD etc with the Sonics as Moto Z2F does not support Adaptive but it should fall back to HD.


Do you know the release date for Europe?
Thanks


----------



## erockg

New Cambridge Melomania Touch coming soon: https://www.forbes.com/sites/marksp...ireless-earbuds-with-the-new-melomania-touch/


----------



## Tommy C

erockg said:


> New Cambridge Melomania Touch coming soon: https://www.forbes.com/sites/marksp...ireless-earbuds-with-the-new-melomania-touch/



Def look like a step up with app available and some other features.


----------



## CocaCola15 (Dec 2, 2020)

erockg said:


> New Cambridge Melomania Touch coming soon: https://www.forbes.com/sites/marksp...ireless-earbuds-with-the-new-melomania-touch/


Being a major fan of the Melomania 1 (with foam tips only) these are on my post-Xmas shopping list. To me, the M1s just sound great (cutting through the technical stuff, not my forte) and I have owned several of the higher-priced BT phones, including Sony, Senn, Nuarl N6 Pro, Soundcore, Jaybird and Jabra among them). To me, the key to appreciating the M1s was the foam tips. I obtained a box of extra foam tips from a HF friend in the UK and they've been my go-to (and only) TW BT phones ever since. The form/fit and tip issue turned some people off, but CA is a fantastic company, very customer friendly in my dealings with them. Anyway, when the Touch can be ordered, I will be ordering them. I had recently purchased a backup pair of M1s at the low price of $79 (a signal a new iteration was coming out), but returned them to Amazon today.

No ANC? No problem for me. I find in-ears are fine without it, after trying the Sonys and deciding that it's not necessary for my uses (dog walking mainly, some travel but that's been cut back). I am a full-sized BT headphone person at home (fan of Sonys here, the WH1000 MH3, and the Soundcore Q30s).

The Forbes article is basically a press release with someone slapping their name on it. Even so, looking forward to the Melomania Touch.


----------



## Burakk

Hey guys, I really need you help. I need good sound with very best ANC. I use AirPods daily use and calls but for flights ( ok, there are not much nowadays but let’s hope for near future) I need a good one. Bose’s earbuds seems interesting but I have no idea at all.


----------



## dweaver

I really like the AZ70 the ANC is pretty decent in my opinion and I love the more balanced approach to sound it offers. On sale these are an excellent value proposition. I got mine in sale in Canada from Visions for $198CAD which is like $150US.

Othe options are the apple airpod pro if you an apple user. In my one test of them I liked their comfort and the ANC seemed pretty good. Sound wise I thought they were OK but never really had a chance to test them much.

SONY WF-1000XM3 will also be a good option if you want a bit more bass oomph. I here the ANC is right there with the best out there.

BOSE should also be a solid option if you like the Bose sound and if anything like their past ANC IEMs will be good for ANC.


----------



## FYLegend

Is there 1More Dual Driver ANC made before June 2020 that are still compatible with the QuietMax and THX update? I saw some reviews of 1More still selling older units on Amazon and 1More just said to update to the latest firmware but some users weren't convinced it was the same as the later releases as they found the ANC underwhelming...


----------



## logiatype

Samsung's New Galaxy Buds Look Quite 'Pro' in Violet (droid-life.com) 

First I've seen of these. Not my thing (no EQ) but ANC on this go around should make a lot of people happy.


----------



## SilverEars

logiatype said:


> Samsung's New Galaxy Buds Look Quite 'Pro' in Violet (droid-life.com)
> 
> First I've seen of these. Not my thing (no EQ) but ANC on this go around should make a lot of people happy.


I hope Samsung reduces the treble with this one, as last one was slight more than I prefer.  Also, I've not heard a good ANC from Samsung yet.


----------



## mrbluetooth

An image of the new galaxy buds pro leaked.


----------



## Tronsmart Official

Mouseman said:


> @Tronsmart Official . IMHO, there are a lot of BT speakers out there already, done quite well. You'd have to include some unique features to stand out.
> 
> But how about some updates to the firmware for the Apollo Bolds? I'd love to see that.


Hi,
Till now we have solved the problems you have feedback. If there is any other issue, please let us know. 
Thanks.


----------



## chinmie

Tronsmart Official said:


> Hi,
> Till now we have solved the problems you have feedback. If there is any other issue, please let us know.
> Thanks.



-user preset tunable custom EQ
-ability to turn off in ear proximity sensors
-making the sound between ANC/"ambient ON" to be the same to the "OFF" mode

if those are fixed, it would be much easier to recommend the Bold to others. 
at this stage, it's good, but not the "king" at that price range


----------



## Grayes

I need your guys help, im thinking to buy soundpeat 3 SE, but still not fully sure yet. im thinking about samsung buds + vs sony wf SP800n vs Jabra Elite 75t. My main concerned here are the build quality and battery most of my usage is for commuting only. ANC its crucial here. any advice? if not this 3 any suggestion for another tws ?


----------



## Tommy C

Grayes said:


> I need your guys help, im thinking to buy soundpeat 3 SE, but still not fully sure yet. im thinking about samsung buds + vs sony wf SP800n vs Jabra Elite 75t. My main concerned here are the build quality and battery most of my usage is for commuting only. ANC its crucial here. any advice? if not this 3 any suggestion for another tws ?



I have no experience with the models you have mentioned but from what I’m reading the ANC of the 75t is just ok but their sq should be a good option for all around use. I have one of the older models and I‘m very satisfied.
The SoundPeats are bass monster based on reviews and don’t offer much else but also cheaper: https://www.scarbir.com/tws/soundpeats-trueengine-se-dual-driver-review.
The Sony I know nothing about. 

Maybe look at the Technics AZ70 as they seem to be a great option.


----------



## Laethageal

Tronsmart Official said:


> Spiritual question:
> Is there any on interested in Bluetooth speaker?


Only if you beat the Kef BT speaker SQ.


----------



## Sam L

*Earfun Free wavelet file compensated to oratory1990 iem target*

The default wavelet file for the Earfun Free is terrible. I have an earlier version of the Free, so I'm wondering if the file in the database is from a measurement of a newer version. It's way too bright to the point of destroying timbre, making the tws unlistenable to my ear.

Mine sounds much better, I think.


----------



## DigDub

Creative outlier air v2.











As comfortable as the first version. Much better connection strength.


----------



## HiddenUser (Dec 3, 2020)

DigDub said:


> Creative outlier air v2.
> 
> As comfortable as the first version. Much better connection strength.


But there is no aptX Adaptive/HD and LL support, only standard aptX and AAC. What a shame... Finally I pulled the trigger on the Creative Aurvana Trio Wireless neckband (with aptX HD and LL). By the way, there is no review of the Aurvana on Head-Fi yet!


----------



## regancipher

I got three in for testing today, will follow up with full reviews soon

KZ SA08 - They sound pretty amazing for TWS. Sometimes. Lows are exceptional as you would expect with BA, low mids are good, high mids hit and miss, sibilance a bit much. Connectivity hopeless. I'll probably keep them because music can sound amazing on them. They're also massive, they look like they've used a babies ear as their design template.

TaoTronics TT-95 - They look like the Edifier TWS200 to me. Same sharp edges to the end that digs in, sorry rests in, to your cartilage. Sound muddy AF. Avoid.

Soundpeats True Air 2 - Oh my god. They don't hang in the ear quite as well as the TT but everything is spot on with them. Connectivity is superb, sound quality is great, call quality is a touch robotic in complex scenes but they're keepers for sure - they'll be my daily Buds Live reserve when the battery dies.


----------



## Sam L

regancipher said:


> I got three in for testing today, will follow up with full reviews soon
> 
> KZ SA08 - They sound pretty amazing for TWS. Sometimes. Lows are exceptional as you would expect with BA, low mids are good, high mids hit and miss, sibilance a bit much. Connectivity hopeless. I'll probably keep them because music can sound amazing on them. They're also massive, they look like they've used a babies ear as their design template.
> 
> ...


Good to know about the True Air 2's, always good to know which <$50 TWS earphones are good for calls.


----------



## jant71

JVC released that $99 ANC model with 10mm driver but for the higher end they come with this one...

JVC KENWOOD will release the completely wireless type "ear-worn smart device" "WS-A1" from mid-January 2021 and "WS-A1G" from early February 2021 under the company's Kenwood brand. Both are open prices, but the market is expected to sell for around 35,000 yen (excluding tax).



"WS-A1 / WS-A1G"

It is a product that focuses on the use of voice assistants. The "WS-A1" is equipped with Amazon Alexa, and the "WS-A1G" is equipped with the Google Assistant. Accurate voice recognition is possible even in a noisy outdoor environment with the "triple microphone system" equipped with three microphones per ear and a unique algorithm.



Accurate voice recognition is possible with the "triple microphone system" and original algorithm

In addition, the company utilizes the technology cultivated in the development of headphones, such as installing a 10mm dynamic driver that uses a beryllium-coated diaphragm. The voice assistant's messages and call voices have clear and easy-to-hear sound quality, and music can be played with dynamic and delicate sound.

Equipped with an "ambient sound seamless control" function that allows you to seamlessly switch between noise canceling mode and external sound capture mode. You can adjust the ratio of blocking and capturing ambient sounds by simply tracing the touchpad on the right side of the main unit up and down.

In addition, the "Voice Enhancement Mode" function that clarifies the voice of the person who captured it makes it easy to talk and listen to the in-house broadcast of the facility even while wearing this product.

On the mounting surface, we have newly developed the "ear pillow" that realizes a comfortable and stable fit with a two-stage configuration of earpiece and ear support. The ear support part adopts "double layer silicon" consisting of two layers of soft material and hard material, pursuing a natural ear feel.

Continuous playback for up to about 8 hours is possible with noise canceling ON. Combined with charging in a special case, it can be used continuously for up to 24 hours. The special case opens with one hand, is designed so that the earphones can be taken out smoothly, and also supports wireless charging.



The structure of the case has been devised, such as opening the lid with one hand.

In addition, the Bluetooth codec supports aptX / AAC / SBC. The earphone body is equipped with IPX4 equivalent water resistance. The weight of the earphone body is about 9.6g (one side), and the case is 92.5g. The earpiece and ear support come in 3 sizes, L / M / S.


----------



## Tooros

eiraku said:


> Me on the other hand: Waiting for Fiil to update their English Fiil+ app to support the T1 Pro.
> 
> The T1XS is already being used more than the L2P for some reason these days (I suspect the tiny case and remarkably low latency has got something to do with it), so the moment the Fiil+ app gets updated...



Quoting for an update in case anyone is looking in. Still no update. Bit ridiculous really.


----------



## tracyca

howdy said:


> I wonder if the hinges are anything like the Sennheiser MTW 1? My case broke with delicate care in 2 pieces. I think that's unacceptable for 300 dollar TWs earbuds.


My case also broke at the hinge. Not cool.


----------



## TK33

tracyca said:


> My case also broke at the hinge. Not cool.


I sent my MTWs in because of the hinge (delivered to them Monday).  Just got an acknowledgement email today and looks like they are shipping something back to me.


----------



## jasonb

The upcoming Melomania Touch seem interesting


----------



## regancipher (Dec 3, 2020)

Soundpeats TrueAir2 Review
Taotronics SoundLiberty 95 Review


----------



## hifi80sman

jasonb said:


> The upcoming Melomania Touch seem interesting


They look super sexy, especially compared to V1.
https://www.cambridgeaudio.com/usa/en/products/headphones/melomania-touch


----------



## chinmie

regancipher said:


> Soundpeats TrueAir2 Review
> Taotronics SoundLiberty 95 Review



do you have connection problems with your trueair2? my unit would stutter and loose connection everytime i touch the stem. i returned mine and asked for a replacement, but the seller weirdly just returned my money instead, so i haven't purchase it again fearing that the problem would reoccur.. 
now I'm using the Tronsmart Onyx ace. it also sometimes stutter when touched on the stems, but at a much lower occurrences.


----------



## regancipher (Dec 4, 2020)

chinmie said:


> do you have connection problems with your trueair2? my unit would stutter and loose connection everytime i touch the stem. i returned mine and asked for a replacement, but the seller weirdly just returned my money instead, so i haven't purchase it again fearing that the problem would reoccur..
> now I'm using the Tronsmart Onyx ace. it also sometimes stutter when touched on the stems, but at a much lower occurrences.


Yes, it also happened once with the TaoTronics 95 too. It didn't stutter, more like completely cut off. I try and stay clear of touching the stems but it's difficult on the soundpeats because the touch controls are so sensitive. I was lenient in my scoring on that because of the perfectly weighted proportions, but yes, I think it's normal


----------



## paleredfox

What is the “king” at that price point?




chinmie said:


> at this stage, it's good, but not the "king" at that price range


----------



## chinmie

paleredfox said:


> What is the “king” at that price point?



the ultimate best this price on every category? there's none yet, at least from what i have tried. 
the Bold is really close in my opinion, but those aspects (lack of user EQ preset, different sound between modes, and for me personally:lack of ability to turn off the sensor) are holding it back. it has a really capable drivers, but tuned rather weird for me. i even prefer the tuning of the Onyx Free than the Bold. 
so unless @Tronsmart comes up with another update, I'd say for now the Bold is good, but not the best

other honorable mentions would be samsung TWSs (Live and Plus), Tevi, Mifo o7.. but those also have their own drawbacks.


----------



## FYLegend

Robius said:


> Looks like there is a new aptX standart with the new Snapdragon 888 chipset.


It's nice to see some new features but it also means you need to have a new phone to take advantage of it. I also feel like Qualcomm is being reluctant to introduce an easy multipoint standard. Or maybe Qualcomm is trying to encourage Bluetooth features to be mobile-only like Samsung is doing with low bitrates on SBC if you're on Windows 10 (another reason I'm wary of the Galaxy Buds Pro)... Not exactly sure how Jabra did it but they are using a Qualcomm chip. Many users were disappointed with their broken "promise" but might be possible multipoint and their existing connection protocol made it difficult for them to implement independent-bud usage.


----------



## jant71

hifi80sman said:


> They look super sexy, especially compared to V1.
> https://www.cambridgeaudio.com/usa/en/products/headphones/melomania-touch



For me having the new Victor I am going a bit the other way. Loving a small barrel shape TWS. For looks they win but in real world use I might just like them sticking with the first design but angling the tube like the Victor.


----------



## chinmie

this looks interesting.. i wonder does this uses bone conduction or speakers like those Bose sunglasses
https://www.theverge.com/2020/12/3/22150405/bose-sport-open-earbuds-fcc-leak-photos


----------



## jant71 (Dec 4, 2020)

chinmie said:


> this looks interesting.. i wonder does this uses bone conduction or speakers like those Bose sunglasses
> https://www.theverge.com/2020/12/3/22150405/bose-sport-open-earbuds-fcc-leak-photos



Should be beamform speakers. I have been waiting on the Cleer Arc but they never came this year so I bought the Goal which is pretty sweet. I'd still go with the Arc over this since you have nothing on your ear at all which is nice with the speakers right in front. Of course a small headphone is easier on and off than putting earhook style on one side at a time. Final version is to have AptX adaptive and 12 hours battery which Bose won't have. Not sure if BOSE will make a small beamform headphone. They should. Certainly less niche and more useful than sunglasses.

Noble still at it...

Flagship model "FALCON PRO" of completely wireless earphones pursuing further sound quality from the company's brand Noble Audio from December 18th. Although it is an open price, it is expected to be sold at around 26,900 yen excluding tax in the market.




"FALCON PRO"


The flagship model of the Noble Audio brand complete wireless earphones, which pursues sound quality under the theme of "TWS (True Wireless Earphone), the highest sound quality in history". Based on the "FALCON 2" released in October this year, while taking over the functional aspects, the driver configuration and housing are being significantly renewed in terms of sound quality. 

As for the driver configuration, the series' first 3-driver / hybrid configuration with 2 BA drivers in the high range and 1 6mm dynamic driver in the mid-low range is adopted.




Adopted a hybrid configuration of dynamic driver and BA driver


The BA driver is equipped with the latest generation driver unit "SRDD" from the major manufacturer Knowles. The structure is a set of two BA drivers, and is said to be excellent in high-frequency expression, wide sound field, and precise focus. In addition, SRDD is placed at the tip of the nozzle of the earphone, which minimizes signal loss and reflection in the sound conduit and at the same time enables fine tuning. 

The dynamic driver is equipped with the newly developed "TLT (Tri-layered Titanium-coated) driver". A major feature is the composite material diaphragm, which is a combination of two types of resins, polyurethane / polyetheretherketone, and a titanium coating applied on top of it, achieving extremely excellent acoustic characteristics such as high rigidity, high internal loss, and light weight. As a result, it is said that low-frequency expression with a rich sense of scale is realized. 

The attached earpiece "ePro audio Horn-Shaped Tips" has also been redesigned into a newly developed large-diameter model. Durability and flexibility have been improved by reviewing the mixing ratio of silicon and graphene, which are the materials, and ribs (steps) are provided inside to prevent them from falling out of the earphones.




The attached earpiece "ePro audio Horn-Shaped Tips" adopts a new model with a different material composition (left). Larger diameter than the conventional model (right)


Tuning will continue to be done by brand founder “Wizard” John Molton. The potential is maximized by a three-step tuning method: a dedicated crossover network that optimizes band division for each driver unit, an acoustic damper that adjusts the air flow, and readjustment of the acoustic characteristics by DSP. 

The housing is newly designed based on the 3D data of the wired model and the ergonomic design. Despite the increase in the number of drivers compared to the past, it maintains the same size and high fit as the FALCON 2. The waterproofing is equivalent to IPX5.




The new housing maintains almost the same size as the conventional model "FALCON 2" (left). The operation method has changed from a button type to a tap type


Controls such as music playback have been changed from the conventional button type to the sensor type. In order to prevent malfunction when taking out the earphone, it responds by tapping the housing. 

Other features / functions inherit the same performance as FALCON2. The Bluetooth chip is equipped with Qualcomm "QCC3040". In addition to aptX Adaptive, which automatically adjusts sound quality priority / connectivity priority according to the surrounding radio wave conditions and can transmit up to 48kHz / 24bit, it also supports SBC / AAC / aptX codecs. It also supports the left and right independent connection technology "True Wireless Mirroring". 

In addition to improving the stability / quality of the Bluetooth connection with the original antenna design "High Precision Connect Technology 2", it is equipped with a "hear-through function" that captures ambient sound from the microphone. 

The maximum continuous playback time is about 10 hours (measured at a volume of 70%), and it can be used continuously for about 50 hours including charging in the case. In addition, both the earphone body / case has a high-speed charging function, and the earphone body can be fully charged in 1 hour and the case in 1.5 hours.



 


The special case has the same shape as the conventional model "FALCON 2", but a new reset


----------



## Caipirina

chinmie said:


> this looks interesting.. i wonder does this uses bone conduction or speakers like those Bose sunglasses
> https://www.theverge.com/2020/12/3/22150405/bose-sport-open-earbuds-fcc-leak-photos


color me very curious / interested ... the way things are these days (family home all day, which means my ears need to be 'open' for talk all the time) I usually listen with those buds that have the worst passive isolation, like Soundpeats TrueAir or other open style buds ... something bone conduction, if that's what it is, could be interesting ... 
I liked those Bose Sunglasses when I tried them, but can't imagine real usage for those. Maybe if I could get them cheap


----------



## chinmie

Caipirina said:


> color me very curious / interested ... the way things are these days (family home all day, which means my ears need to be 'open' for talk all the time) I usually listen with those buds that have the worst passive isolation, like Soundpeats TrueAir or other open style buds ... something bone conduction, if that's what it is, could be interesting ...
> I liked those Bose Sunglasses when I tried them, but can't imagine real usage for those. Maybe if I could get them cheap



yeah, i also use the Onyx Ace and X12 more often lately around the house because i can wear them for hours without discomfort, and use the Onyx Free (which can only be usable for me with foam tips) as sleeping buds, because it has surprisingly great passive isolation. 

I've been looking for more open earbuds style TWS. the Trueair2 is really great except for that dealbreakingly bad cut offs in signal.. now the Fill CC2 caught my attention.. hmmmm...


----------



## dweaver (Dec 4, 2020)

Anyone else get their AZ70 yet? Just curious of other impressions on them. For listening to music I am still very much in love with their sound. Been using them a lot since I got them even to not using my over ear headphones at home.

I have had a few connection issues where suddenly I will loose bluetooth connection or only get it in one ear at the start but these are very sporadic and the ones at the start have been easy to rectify. no cutouts while walking around like some of the early TW earphones.

Phone calls are a bit of a mixed bag. I am going to think about a way I can maybe set up a recording  on the other end of a call to see what they really are like. My wife has no issues with me talking to her aside from me sounding a bit like I am talking through a tunnel. Car noises to her are not bad. But my Mother complains that their is to much noise in the background and my son has similarly complained about cars. So I need to see which is right. I know no headphone gets it completely right but I have a feeling these may not be as good as the L2P in this regard. If I figure out a way to record the audio maybe I will do a recording using each.

If anyone can point to an app I can put on either an iphone or android phone to tap into a phone call and record it please let me know and I will give it a try.


----------



## TK33

dweaver said:


> Anyone else get their AZ70 yet? Just curious of other impressions on them. For listening to music I am still very much in love with their sound. Been using them a lot since I got them even to not using my over ear headphones at home.
> 
> I have had a few connection issues where suddenly I will loose bluetooth connection or only get it in one ear at the start but these are very sporadic and the ones at the start have been easy to rectify. no cutouts while walking around like some of the early TW earphones.
> 
> ...


I use Mic Test on Android (available in the Play Store).


----------



## asak

dweaver said:


> Anyone else get their AZ70 yet? Just curious of other impressions on them. For listening to music I am still very much in love with their sound. Been using them a lot since I got them even to not using my over ear headphones at home.
> 
> I have had a few connection issues where suddenly I will loose bluetooth connection or only get it in one ear at the start but these are very sporadic and the ones at the start have been easy to rectify. no cutouts while walking around like some of the early TW earphones.
> 
> ...



I have them. With phone calls, I notice, you have to pay attention to where the microphone port lines up. It can get blocked easily depending on how you wear them, and what ya ears look like. They also only use one side's mic but can switch to either side. A factory reset and re-pair based on their recommendations also helps with connection, quality, etc.


----------



## stook2001 (Dec 5, 2020)

Hi Folks,
VERY rare poster here but have used head-fi as a resource on and off over the years and figured it was time to give back a little.  Over the last few weeks I have purchased a number of different true wireless IEMs and am in the midst of demoing them to see which (if any) I want to keep for use with a new iphone.  As an aside, I am not sure what's come over me, I'm a LONG time android user but for some reason just bought an iphone 12 pro max which should be here soon.  I have long bitched about the apple ecosystem and some of the moves by apple that i consider to be ludicrous.  One prime example of that is disposing of the headphone jack.  Nonetheless, here I am demoing bluetooth iems so that I can avoid the 3.5mm dongle.  So there's your back story.

Here are the ones that I have on hand.  I will edit this post with my thoughts as I continue to work through my impressions of each set.  Please keep in mind that I am running all of these through my PC currently, which is a Dell XPS 15 laptop.  Source material is all FLAC.  Currently listening to just a few of the same songs but will continue to cycle through these demoing with more material.

Klipsch T5II:  Lovely packaging (who cares ultimately), case is a very nice zippo lighter style, sound is disappointing.  Just far and away too rolled off for my taste in the treble.  Where's the treble!!  They could probably be eq'd but out of the box the sound isn't at all balanced.  Mid bass and deeper bass extension is good relative to some of the others.  Midrange is mediocre.  Cannot get past the rolled off treble.  Just no sense of space and not particularly engaging, as a result.  Comfort is pretty good on this pair, they are relatively small and the fit is pretty good for me with the 2nd largest of the ear thingys.

edit 1 Klipsch:  Sticking with more or less my original take here.  These are a disappointment to me.  I suppose taken at their price point (paid 100) it should be expected that they'd be out of the top tier but they just are not good enough for me to want to keep them.  They are missing detail and are just too recessed for me in the upper midrange and treble.  Even with some eq tinkering, I can't seem to get them quite to my liking - better, yes, but still just OK.  Unlikely to come back to this pair again.

Master & Dynamic MW07 Plus:  First impression... damn! why do I always have to like the most expensive ones.  I need to do more extensive demos of my favorite few pairs but these are probably going to be one of them.  Good treble extension, initial thought is that they have a hair of sibilance but overall well balanced vocals and, in fact, the overall tonal balance is good.  They suffer from the same issue as a few of the others which is what seems like some compression or harshness with complex tracks played loudly.  These cost something like 225ish on sale.  Worth it?  Eh, not sure to be honest.

edit 1 for M&D:  Listening to one of my reference recordings, Clfford Jordan Live at Ethell's.  This is a live recording in a small venue and there is a ton of ambiance.  It's great for testing imaging and detail.  I am hearing things from the M&D that I wasn't able to get from the Apple product.  For instance, I can hear Jordan clicking each of the keys on his sax.  These headphones are better than the Airpods.  The tonal balance out of the box isn't wildly different but they are more detailed and I've not needed to tinker with the treble.  There is a better bass extension as well as a bit more detail in the mid bass.  These are good headphones, perhaps the best of the bunch.  Onto the Sony again next...

edit 2 for M&D:  Getting some sibilance on Trey's vocals on the Phish track.  Listening to this after the Apple set these are a lot more dynamic.  Vocals are a bit more forward.  Space and imaging is better.  There are some background sound effects that should be a little bit more forward than they are.  Bass extension is a little better than Apple and the bass, overall, seems more realistic to me.  The difference in detail is the most obvious on the Clifford Jordan track.  I mentioned previously that it's recorded in a small club and it's a reference quality recording so you can hear clanking of dishes and glasses in the background.  These are the only set that really gets at that fine detail.  You can hear it in pretty much all of these headphones but not with the finest of detail.  The same applies to Jordan's key strokes on the sax.  You can pick this up in all of the headphones but this pair is the most realistic sounding.  In fact, the sax itself is the most realistic sounding of the bunch.  Listening now to ride cymbal, sounds perfect to me.  The treble is pretty much right on for these headphones without tweaks, in my view.  On the negative side, I am getting a little sibilance also on the Norah Jones track.  I don't think I'd reported this issue before but I am getting a bit of this on both the Jones track and the Phish track.  That's a tough pill to swallow at this price point honestly.  On the other hand these do a lot right and are probably the one pair that seems to be significantly better than some of the other choices in other ways.

Apple Airpod Pro:  I'm well aware of the negative perception of these here.  Beyond that, as I implied above, i'm predisposed myself to having negative views of apple products in the sense that they tend to be a bad value.  Having said that, these are actually not that bad.  Are they the best of the lot sound wise?  Eh, probably not but they may well be one of the better options of the group that I am demoing.  They seem a bit rolled off in the treble but the overall balance is pretty good and they have pretty good bass and midrange.  They are fairly detailed and they are comfortable to wear.  At their normal price, I'd have to say they are a bad value.  However, I paid $170 for these on sale and at that price point they seem to be a lot more inline with the competition.

1st edit for apple:  ran a few more tracks through these including one of my reference recordings.  these are really not bad headphones at all.  honestly, I think people knock them a bit too hard given how they sound.  negative apple rep?  that's my view.  I find the treble a little too rolled off for my taste and have given them just a slight boost in the upper treble to give them a little more space.  On some material, there's some need for tweaks here and there but these are more detailed than I'd expect from a consumer grade product.  I could easily see someone with limited experience getting their socks blown off by these.  I'm sticking with my original impression, which is that they are pretty good.  Not the best thing since sliced bread but good headphones without any serious issues to my ears.

2nd edit for apple:  these are not quite as detailed as I think they should be for the $.  However, i'm going to hang onto these as an option for testing once I have the iphone since, knowing apple, there may be some secondary benefits to them in terms of integration or other factors that I am not thinking of currently.  I find them to be fairly middle of the pack sound wise.  Not distinguished in any specific way but they also aren't falling down in any specific way either.  I could be happy with them but I don't feel they are significantly better than some of the less expensive options.  I'm giving them a slight boost in the treble now, which I think improves their sound a little.  They sound pretty good with the norah jones track.  The clifford jordan track is where I'm noticing some of the small detail missing and what prompted the treble boost.  Instrument placement and imaging on the Phish track was good but not great.  Some of others seemed better to me.  They are reasonably punchy sounding for Rock but I don't think the extension is quite as good as some other options.  This all sounds kind of negative but I think my original impression basically still stands, which is that they are pretty good in most respects and honestly better than I expected given their rep.  They seem like a decent value at 170.  Not a great value at 250 or whatever the normal price is for them.

Sony WF1000XM3:  Like many other people here, I like the Sonys.  They're one of the better options of the group that I've demoed.  Overall, well balanced sound.  Good detail and good upper and lower extension.  The biggest issue with these, I think, is the fit.  They are on the larger side relative to the other options and I just seem to get less of a good positive engagement in my ears.

1st Edit Sony:  Coming to the Sony from having just listened to the two budget options.  The Lypertek and Fiil.  Back to reality.  These are better than those two sets by a decent bit.  The vocals are thicker and richer while still being very delicate on the norah jones track.  Out of the box and even with some tweaks to the cheaper pairs the bass is better on the Sony.  Vocal separation on the phish track is good.  Mid bass and bass extension are both better.  Treble is pretty good.  I'd prefer the wah effects in the guitar bits to be a little more forward and have bumped the upper midrange to get a little more of that.  These seem to take pretty well to eq vs. some of the others, which maybe means that people might prefer slight tweaks to the sound signature but that they are pretty well put together overall.  For instance, listening to the Jordan track the background ambiance and fine detail on the sax are there but a little more recessed than I prefer.  Small tweaks in the eq bring it out while still sounding pretty realistic.  I think the biggest issue with the Sony is that while they aren't uncomfortable they could well be the least comfortable of all of the options.  That's a bit of a bummer.

Anker Soundcore Liberty Pro 2:  I've listened to these twice now and came away with the same impression both times.  People like these?  Not for me.  WAY too bright, which isn't necessarily a problem in its own right (I actually tend to like relatively bright headphones) but there is just a ton of sibilance, which kills them for me.  I'd say there is also too much mid boost as well.  They just are not natural sounding or balanced to me.  The best thing they have going is that they are pretty detailed but my overall impression of these was negative.

1st edit for Anker:  Ok, I missed the boat a bit on these in the first couple go rounds and I know why.  Female vocals seem to accentuate an issue that I am pretty sensitive to, which is sibilance.  Cutting the treble a hair reduces a little of that while not affecting the space and imaging much.  These are actually pretty good.  I like them quite a bit more than the Klipsch, which I listened to immediately before them.  If you are into imaging these punch above their weight.  I can't recall how much these cost?  Around $100, I think.  These have a nice presence for rock but it's probably not the direction I'd go for jazz or female vocal oriented music unless you want to tweak the treble to reduce the sibilance (don't feel like it can be fully tuned out, personally).

Lypertek Tevi:  Comfort is better than Sony, these are much better than the Soundcore but like a few of the others they get a bit compressed/bad sounding especially when listening to complex tracks loudly.  These are fairly well balanced.  I found the upper treble a bit recessed at times but the vocals are good and there is minimal sibilance.  I wasn't blown away by these but they are also one of the cheaper options that I purchased and given the cost they are not bad.

1st Edit Lypertek:  Going back and forth on these a bit.  They are one of the less expensive options.  They do some things right.  The bass doesn't sound quite right to me.  I think they are lacking extension.  Even with some tweaking in the bass I can't quite get some of the bass guitar riffs sounding quite right on the Phish track.  On the other hand, these do a pretty good job on some of the wah effects and assorted effects placement in the midrange.  They handle vocals pretty well to my ears, not getting sibilance on these, which is great.  The treble still feels a bit rolled off to me and I've given that a little eq as well.  I'm listening to these right after the M&D set and for the $ they hold their own.  While they aren't my favorite they represent a pretty good value.

Fiil T1XS:  Comfort better than sony.  These are slightly less rolled off than Lypertek but at the expense of more sibilance.  I really do not like sibilance and I don't find it to be really fixable generally so EQing the Lypertek might be the better option if I was going to pick between the two least costly options.  Like some of the others, these get that compressed/bad sounding feel when loud (not quite sure what's up with that), these don't sound that realistic to me for some reason, I think they are lacking some presence since the bass is a little recessed and the upper treble is lacking detail.

1st Edit Fiil:  Listening to these again right after the Sony.  Still feel like the comfort on these is a step up from the Sony but in terms of sound they are really not too bad.  The signature is fairly similar to the Sony but just a hair more sibilance.  They give a very nice intimate feel to the norah jones track I have been using.  I slightly prefer the Sony but it's not a huge difference to my ears.  Also demoing with Phish's Ghost which is a good rock track for testing imaging and instrument placement.  I think I said initially that I felt these were less rolled off in the treble than the Lypertek but they are actually too rolled off and it's pretty apparent on this Phish track.  I've given them a little bump in the upper treble, which helps.  These aren't amazing but they are very good budget option in my opinion.  I think this may be the least expensive pair that I bought (can't remember) and they seem like a reasonable option with some small tweaks.  Not really feeling like bass is overly recessed anymore either.

2nd Edit Fiil:  Ok trying to figure out if I prefer the Fiil or Lypertek.  Female vocals are more compelling to me on the Fiil.  Norah Jones has more of a delicate feel on the Fiil. Her vocals are a little more forward and have a little more sweetness.  I prefer this.  On the hand the piano is more thin sounding.  So some give and take there.  Moving to the Phish track, there is slightly better separation in the overlayed vocal tracks but male vocals seem a bit thinner to me, which is happening because the midbass is a little too thin.  This might be a fitment issue, honestly.  These are just a hair looser than they probably should be on me.  I think these may have slightly better bass extension even though the midbass is a little more thin.  I do still feel like these are little less rolled off in the treble.  I don't really love these headphones but they are respectable.  They are also 1/3 the price of a few of the others, or in the case of the M&D almost a quarter of the price.  Hard to argue with the value proposition.  I think I'd probably take these over the Lypertek, ultimately.  I can thicken up the midbass with some eq and I'm not sure your getting anything for the added cost of the Lypertek.  In fact, I could see a lot of people saying, effectively, to hell with it.  These are good enough that it's not worth spending a lot more to headphones that aren't wildly superior.  To be honest with you, I am starting to wonder that myself.

My initial thinking is that the Sony, Apple, and Master & Dynamic are the best 3 sets.  Unfortunately, they are also the 3 most pricey... go figure.  I will continue to add more thoughts as I tinker with these.  I need to also try these with cell / conference call type applications.  Have not tried that out at all and it will be a big factor in my decision.


----------



## pholcus1975

Cambridge Audio is about to launch a new TWS : https://www.cambridgeaudio.com/eur/en/products/headphones/melomania-touch

As owner of Melomania 1, that to me sound incredibile for a TWS in this price range, I'm more than interested, considered my only complaint is the difficult fit of M1


----------



## Laethageal

dweaver said:


> Anyone else get their AZ70 yet? Just curious of other impressions on them. For listening to music I am still very much in love with their sound. Been using them a lot since I got them even to not using my over ear headphones at home.
> 
> I have had a few connection issues where suddenly I will loose bluetooth connection or only get it in one ear at the start but these are very sporadic and the ones at the start have been easy to rectify. no cutouts while walking around like some of the early TW earphones.
> 
> ...


It depends on your phone. On android, starting from version 10 and later, you can't record phone call without rooting your device. That lead me to use an older device I had lying around and calling over skype for easy recording.


----------



## dweaver

TK33 said:


> I use Mic Test on Android (available in the Play Store).



Thanks I will check that app out, might just do the trick.



asak said:


> I have them. With phone calls, I notice, you have to pay attention to where the microphone port lines up. It can get blocked easily depending on how you wear them, and what ya ears look like. They also only use one side's mic but can switch to either side. A factory reset and re-pair based on their recommendations also helps with connection, quality, etc.


Thanks I will try the factory reset and see how it goes for the few connection issues I have had.

I notice the bottom mic is in line with an indentation of my ear which should keep it open but possibly partially shielded. The other mic  is on top and I assume designed to help measure and counteract ambient noise.

In conversation with my Mom today she never complained as much except for one loud instance of the C-train going by me in an otherwise quiet area. So it may be that certain higher pitched sounds can overwhelm the ANC for conversations.


----------



## jibberish (Dec 4, 2020)

My AZ70 set arrived a couple of days late, but I've been listening to them pretty continually since yesterday and I'm mostly quite pleased with them.  I would agree with the assessment that they're fairly balanced, but sort of in w-shaped tuning with plenty of excitement sort of way, not a polite manner.  Bass is tight and with good impact and texture. It's not really possible to use the EQ to turn these into a full-on basshead set, which is fine for my preferences, but just calling that out for anybody that would want that.

Technical abilities on the whole are good - solid detail retrieval, sound stage width is good, and there is at least some semblance of height and depth, so I won't complain. The imaging/separation abilities are good and were a pleasant surprise. Vocals and instruments sound natural to me. Upper mids and treble are definitely pushed forward, so it can get a bit intense at high volumes, but it's not harsh or sibilant.

Fit is comfortable for me and my big ears, but passive isolation is fairly poor. They're not perfectly stable when active, for example I just walked the dog for about 90 minutes and had to reseat the earpieces in my ears a couple of times while I was out. It's much better with the aftermarket tips I'm using compared to the stock tips though.  ANC is...there, and does...something. I feel like the AZ70 with ANC activated is only about as good at blocking sound as passive isolation alone on my other TWS set (Fiil T1XS). I've only made one phone call to my wife, and she didn't comment on sound quality, but I was indoors so it wasn't a great test of the mic.

Bit disappointed with the EQ functionality.  The tuning changes you can make are pretty subtle at best. Only 6 bands and 6db of adjustment. I did boost at 100hz and cut at 1khz and 3.5khz to reduce some of the midrange intensity, but again, if you don't really like the base tuning, you're not going to be able to EQ your way to something significantly different.

Touch controls are excellent.  Intuitive commands, and the touch sensors are precise. The case is good too, honestly the most important thing about it to me is that you can use it with just about any type of tips still on the earpieces. I've tried some Comply T400 clones and KZ Starlines (the KZs work best for me so far) and the case accepts them with no problem. I've lost some tips already while using my Fiil set because I have to take off the aftermarket tips that fit best whenever I put the units back into the case.

In summary though, they fit me well, and I think that they sound good - the tuning suits my preferences and library, which is almost exclusively rock music.  I'll certainly be happy with the AZ70 as my walking/hiking/laying in bed set.


----------



## assassin10000

dweaver said:


> Thanks I will check that app out, might just do the trick.
> 
> 
> Thanks I will try the factory reset and see how it goes for the few connection issues I have had.
> ...



There's a bit of confusion I think. There is CVC and ANC. They do similar things but for different purposes. 

CVC is for calls & your voice. Only active on calls. This is what filters your voice to be clear when talking.

ANC is for music and making the outside environment quieter. Not active on calls. This is used to tone down the rumble, traffic, etc.


Both use the TWS mics and is why they aren't active at the same time (afaik).


----------



## Tommy C (Dec 4, 2020)

stook2001 said:


> Hi Folks,
> VERY rare poster here but have used head-fi as a resource on and off over the years and figured it was time to give back a little.  Over the last few weeks I have purchased a number of different true wireless IEMs and am in the midst of demoing them to see which (if any) I want to keep for use with a new iphone.  As an aside, I am not sure what's come over me, I'm a LONG time android user but for some reason just bought an iphone 12 pro max which should be here soon.  I have long bitched about the apple ecosystem and some of the moves by apple that i consider to be ludicrous.  One prime example of that is disposing of the headphone jack.  Nonetheless, here I am demoing bluetooth iems so that I can avoid the 3.5mm dongle.  So there's your back story.
> 
> Here are the ones that I have on hand.  I will edit this post with my thoughts as I continue to work through my impressions of each set.  Please keep in mind that I am running all of these through my PC currently, which is a Dell XPS 15 laptop.  Source material is all FLAC.  Currently listening to just a few of the same songs but will continue to cycle through these demoing with more material.
> ...



Awesome right up!  A few options that my colleagues purchased since we all work from home and overall they are satisfied are Creative Outlier Gold and Jabra 75t both should be very decent. The Outlier gold are more budget friendly.


----------



## dweaver

assassin10000 said:


> There's a bit of confusion I think. There is CVC and ANC. They do similar things but for different purposes.
> 
> CVC is for calls & your voice. Only active on calls. This is what filters your voice to be clear when talking.
> 
> ...


Thanks in this case I am referring to CVC then as I mean the noise cancelling during a phone call how ever that is achieved.

The actual ANC on these is pretty good in my opinion removing most noise missed by the passive isolating features of any IEM.

So come on fellow headfirst cough up your impressions of the AN70. I want details... They don't have to even be good impressions. If you don't like them post why, those are as valid as positive impressions. I am enjoying the heck out of my pair but that can just be me and my preferences. Everyone's impressions are welcome and needed to help other make their own choice.


----------



## dweaver

jibberish said:


> My AZ70 set arrived a couple of days late, but I've been listening to them pretty continually since yesterday and I'm mostly quite pleased with them.  I would agree with the assessment that they're fairly balanced, but sort of in w-shaped tuning with plenty of excitement sort of way, not a polite manner.  Bass is tight and with good impact and texture. It's not really possible to use the EQ to turn these into a full-on basshead set, which is fine for my preferences, but just calling that out for anybody that would want that.
> 
> Technical abilities on the whole are good - solid detail retrieval, sound stage width is good, and there is at least some semblance of height and depth, so I won't complain. The imaging/separation abilities are good and were a pleasant surprise. Vocals and instruments sound natural to me. Upper mids and treble are definitely pushed forward, so it can get a bit intense at high volumes, but it's not harsh or sibilant.
> 
> ...


Awesome impressions. I actually find everything said pretty spot on with exception of maybe ANC but I also have not tried a really good isolating IEM in a while as I find most bother me a bit so prefer shallow inserted IEMs.

Sonically I hear mine very much like you have. Great for rock in particular but I also think they work very well with Jazz and orchestral music.

I have pretty much settled on Sony hybrid tips as they are super comfortable and help hold the IEM in place simultaneously plus the slightly smaller exit hole helps the bass a bit. I actually buy cheap Sony IEMs to get new pairs sometimes LOL.


----------



## turbobb

TK33 said:


> I use Mic Test on Android (available in the Play Store).



Thx for the suggestion, I've downloaded the app but one thing isn't clear re: the Mic Mode (the Help section wasn't very helpful either); apparently this allows one to choose the Mic mode but pretty much every TWS (or BT earbuds for that matter) doesn't allow you to adjust the mic processing thus I'd imagine that you'd always want to choose Communication.

However, would you happen to know if Direct means noise canceling (for mic) = Off and Communication = NC on? (which then I interpret to mean cVc on/off for Qualcomm chips).


----------



## Damz87

Has anyone here tried NuraLoops?


----------



## melon220

Best TWS on AliExpress under 80$?
I'm currently owning Anker Liberty Neo and I was amazed that they sound anything close to a real iem, I thought TWS were way worse.

I'm currently looking at Fiil T1 Pros Vs Oppo Encos W51 Vs Edifier NB2. Fiil T1 seem to have the best sound quality, while Oppos ANC seem to be better than Fiils. Edifier seems to be mediocre in both. Is there anything else that could be as good / better?


----------



## TK33 (Dec 5, 2020)

turbobb said:


> Thx for the suggestion, I've downloaded the app but one thing isn't clear re: the Mic Mode (the Help section wasn't very helpful either); apparently this allows one to choose the Mic mode but pretty much every TWS (or BT earbuds for that matter) doesn't allow you to adjust the mic processing thus I'd imagine that you'd always want to choose Communication.
> 
> However, would you happen to know if Direct means noise canceling (for mic) = Off and Communication = NC on? (which then I interpret to mean cVc on/off for Qualcomm chips).




Those must be new options since I last used it.  I have not bought anything new in a while and just used it to compare call quality to see which one of my TWS, IEMs or headphones sounded best compared to each other.  I just looked it up and the below text from the apps page in the Google Play Store seems to imply some phones (but not all) may do some processing for voice calls:

"New options allow you to record up to 10 minutes and choose the direct sound from the microphone or the processed for voice calls. Keep in mind that in some devices both modes could be identical."

I read "processed for voice calls" to mean what the other person will hear.  The app is pretty easy to use from what I recall so maybe test both ways and see if you hear a difference?


----------



## oobika

Bobbetybob said:


> Finally got these little guys, sound fantastic so far, very low profile and comfy too from an hour or so of listening.
> 
> Also some of the best packaging of any TWS I've purchased, puts the Galaxy Buds to shame and even better than the MW07 Go in some ways.



Are these the Fiil T1 Lite?
Waiting for a review on these as they seem a great budget option.


----------



## jant71 (Dec 5, 2020)

Sort of updates on a couple I was keeping an eye on just in case anybody is interested. A couple of noteworthy comparisons of the Grado TWS so far. One said a bit better sound than the Sony SP800N and another close to the Panasonic RZ-S500(seems smaller stage but better detail resolution than the Panny). Still sounds like the Grado is playing on the name and is too pricey and has no features for $260. Might be good if Grado ever lowered prices but they hold them. The years old moving armature GR8e and 10e still have the same $299 and $399 price tags as when released. At least Senn goes on sale and a CX400BT which also has no features can be had for $50 to $70 off.

The other I'm still keeping an eye on is the Victor FX100T as it is the only high sound quality model I have owned. So while I can't direct compare to other top choices the one owner of both the MTW 2 and the Victor so far gives the Victor the win for SQ. Yay! Only one persons thought but I knew the Victor was a bit cheaper than the CX400BT I gave a moment of thought to. The smaller size and ergonomics, cheaper price better Spiral Dot stock tips, and ambient with solid sounding mics made them the choice but still good to hear the first comparison go to the Victor even though they were impressed with the Senn they already owned.


----------



## stook2001

Those of you that have the Sony WF-1000XM3 iems...  anyone have good success adapting the fit better.  I have pretty big ear canals and I'd like to get a little better engagement and/or a deeper fit.  Just sitting they seem to be OK but walking around in them they feel like they are going to fall out (even though I am not sure they actually will fall out).  Thoughts on this?  I also don't find them to be super comfortable.  It's almost like the tips are both too big and too shallow.


----------



## DigDub

Been using the Creative v2 for the past few days. Like the sound signature a lot. It does not sound like most tws earbuds nowadays which aim for the Harman curve that has a boosted high-mid frequency which gives a brighter and consequentially a more fatiguing sound signature, and gives an impression of a clearer sound.

On the outlier v2, the treble is not as boosted but is still very well resolved. This allows the mids to shine through, the v2 has some of the most detailed mids I've heard in earphones. Little nuances in voices and instruments becomes audible, partly due to the unboosted treble. Mid bass is a tad boosted but no where near a bass monster. Overall a relaxed and enjoyable sound signature. Soundstage is pretty impressive as well, out of head and very spacious.

The v2 is also very comfortable to wear and seals very well to block out external noise. ANC is not needed here, and ANC on most earbuds alter the sound signature anyway. The long battery life also allows me to bring just the buds out and leave the bulky charging case at home. The connection strength is also solid, one of the best I've used.

Probably the shortcoming is that the triple tap sometimes doesn't register as it requires quite fast consecutive taps, else the buds will just register a double tap and pause the music.


----------



## Boogie7910

Not sure if this is the right thread. Best midrange bluetooth earbuds for comfort, SQ, features? I need a smooth warm sound and bass heavy. I listen to Google Play music streaming and mostly metal.


----------



## Darkestred

The Falcon looks interesting but i wasnt a fan of their first rendition.  I could see 4-5 hour battery life, which is fine for some.  Im a fan of hybrids but id be more curious to see what Soundcore does if they have an LP4 coming out and whoever decides to do hybrids in the future.


----------



## howdy

stook2001 said:


> Those of you that have the Sony WF-1000XM3 iems...  anyone have good success adapting the fit better.  I have pretty big ear canals and I'd like to get a little better engagement and/or a deeper fit.  Just sitting they seem to be OK but walking around in them they feel like they are going to fall out (even though I am not sure they actually will fall out).  Thoughts on this?  I also don't find them to be super comfortable.  It's almost like the tips are both too big and too shallow.


The exlastec eartips work really well with these. They have a "sticky" exterior that keeps in place. Amazon has these go for around 20 bucks for 2 pair.


----------



## Bobbetybob

oobika said:


> Are these the Fiil T1 Lite?
> Waiting for a review on these as they seem a great budget option.


Nah they're the T1 Pro, still pretty well priced, think I ended up paying £50 for them.


----------



## chinmie

stook2001 said:


> Those of you that have the Sony WF-1000XM3 iems...  anyone have good success adapting the fit better.  I have pretty big ear canals and I'd like to get a little better engagement and/or a deeper fit.  Just sitting they seem to be OK but walking around in them they feel like they are going to fall out (even though I am not sure they actually will fall out).  Thoughts on this?  I also don't find them to be super comfortable.  It's almost like the tips are both too big and too shallow.



you might want to try a more grippy eartips (like the xelastec) or deeper/longer eartips (like the spinfits).

i personally use the Sony hybrid because it's a bit grippy, and also it allows the XM3's body to sit and supported by my lower ears to reduce it from bouncing when i walk. it's really secure that even  being knocked won't easily dislodge it


----------



## regancipher

melon220 said:


> Best TWS on AliExpress under 80$?
> I'm currently owning Anker Liberty Neo and I was amazed that they sound anything close to a real iem, I thought TWS were way worse.
> 
> I'm currently looking at Fiil T1 Pros Vs Oppo Encos W51 Vs Edifier NB2. Fiil T1 seem to have the best sound quality, while Oppos ANC seem to be better than Fiils. Edifier seems to be mediocre in both. Is there anything else that could be as good / better?



You won't get much better than the T1 Pro for all round strength in depth. 

Sound quality is very decent, but after a bit of scrutiny I discovered they have prioritised latency, and to get round the Qualcomm license fee requirement for Aptx, have cut corners - they've only partially implemented AAC-LC, skipping some of the better features that mpeg-4 gives you over mpeg-2 such as SBR, and like Samsung have reduced the bitpool on SBC. Whilst the tuning is pretty good - albeit a tad too V-shaped for my liking - the over compression comes across when songs peak. Don't get me wrong - their tuning alone is better than 95% of other tws out there - but it's worth remembering why they cost what they do and why you can't get a set of momentum for the same price (aside from the obvious sunk costs of doing business) 

That point aside, at this price point only the Soundpeats Sonic come close, and they can't be considered due to other reasons - form factor, flashing lights, etc. 

I also take exception to the criticism of the ANC. It's much better than the YouTube reviews make out. The problem I guess is that stuff like keyboard taps are still clearly audible but it's like they cut the bass out of them. Any low freq distant sounds are well handled. 

The Tronsmart Apollo Bold are the chifi leader for ANC, they are really impressive in this respect. The Oppo 51's are also quite good, but I didn't like the shape too much, and the Edifier are reasonable all round at blocking all frequencies, just not as well as the others. 

I've had the Edifier a while - they're good commuter buds but nothing special really. Sound is rather neutral but the mic is massively over compressed in complex scenes. Still, until the FIIL came along they were one of my faves. Only supporting a reduced bitpool sbc codec was also their latency fudge - whilst you get app support and a nicer case than the Earfun OEM version, they have fixed some of the sound issues especially with the mic. 

Sub $50 those 3 are hard to beat. The Soundpeats TrueAir2 are fantastic for the money but lack ANC and are semi in ear.


----------



## regancipher

chinmie said:


> yeah, i also use the Onyx Ace and X12 more often lately around the house because i can wear them for hours without discomfort, and use the Onyx Free (which can only be usable for me with foam tips) as sleeping buds, because it has surprisingly great passive isolation.
> 
> I've been looking for more open earbuds style TWS. the Trueair2 is really great except for that dealbreakingly bad cut offs in signal.. now the Fill CC2 caught my attention.. hmmmm...



You guys are reflective of the mass market movement. We are all spending longer with buds in our ears and slowly realising that being submerged by silicone has a lot of disadvantages when 2 hours a day turns into 8-10.

I've been in touch with Sabbat to try and get them to take advantage of this with how they market the Vooplay but sadly they just seem interested in getting me to become a dealer 😂


----------



## gazzington (Dec 6, 2020)

Hi. I’m after some advice. I have plenty of great audio gear but I want to go more wireless. What would be great earphones to go for? Don’t mind how expensive they are if they are good. In listen to lots of black metal and edm but also classical. Noise cancelling options would be handy. Audio quality is the most important thing


----------



## mattedialdoc

how do the T1pro compare to the Tronsmart Apollo Bold? 





regancipher said:


> You won't get much better than the T1 Pro for all round strength in depth.
> 
> Sound quality is very decent, but after a bit of scrutiny I discovered they have prioritised latency, and to get round the Qualcomm license fee requirement for Aptx, have cut corners - they've only partially implemented AAC-LC, skipping some of the better features that mpeg-4 gives you over mpeg-2 such as SBR, and like Samsung have reduced the bitpool on SBC. Whilst the tuning is pretty good - albeit a tad too V-shaped for my liking - the over compression comes across when songs peak. Don't get me wrong - their tuning alone is better than 95% of other tws out there - but it's worth remembering why they cost what they do and why you can't get a set of momentum for the same price (aside from the obvious sunk costs of doing business)
> 
> ...


----------



## amphibians

Hey, sorry if this is the wrong place but it looks like purchase advice is ok here...

Looking for recommendations on truly wireless buds to use for calls/meetings/running. Don't care so much about ANC, but some isolation would be appreciated. reasonable sound quality, comfort, and call quality are the most important. Happy spending up to $300 but somewhat flexible. Don't care too much about ANC. For music, mostly jazz of all types, and R&B/Soul.

I currently use WH1000XM3 for day-to-day but they are awful on calls. For running I have a pair of jaybird tarah pros which have held up admirably but are super uncomfortable. Thanks!


----------



## dweaver

gazzington said:


> Hi. I’m after some advice. I have plenty of great audio gear but I want to go more wireless. What would be great earphones to go for? Don’t mind how expensive they are if they are good. In listen to lots of black metal and edm but also classical. Noise cancelling options would be handy. Audio quality is the most important thing


I recently bought the Technics AZ70 and they sound extremely good for the rock I listen to as well as Jazz, and orchestral music. Not sure what EDm you listen to or if black metal would fit. Maybe give to song examples I could listen to on YouTube.

But I am also a lower volume listener, so depending on your volume levels the AZ70 might be to harsh.


----------



## dweaver (Dec 6, 2020)

amphibians said:


> Hey, sorry if this is the wrong place but it looks like purchase advice is ok here...
> 
> Looking for recommendations on truly wireless buds to use for calls/meetings/running. Don't care so much about ANC, but some isolation would be appreciated. reasonable sound quality, comfort, and call quality are the most important. Happy spending up to $300 but somewhat flexible. Don't care too much about ANC. For music, mostly jazz of all types, and R&B/Soul.
> 
> I currently use WH1000XM3 for day-to-day but they are awful on calls. For running I have a pair of jaybird tarah pros which have held up admirably but are super uncomfortable. Thanks!


I listen to a lot of Patricia Barber, Diana Krall, Miles Davis, and other vocal Jazz and really like the AZ70, it has good bass but only when present in a song allowing the midrange and treble to shine and sparkle with great ability to convey emotion. I find double bass is nicely reproduced and drum kits have lots of shimmer and detail.

Technically the ANC is good and the IPX4 rating ensure I don't have to worry about a bit of moisture. Thry also have good ambient mode features.


----------



## Darkestred

gazzington said:


> Hi. I’m after some advice. I have plenty of great audio gear but I want to go more wireless. What would be great earphones to go for? Don’t mind how expensive they are if they are good. In listen to lots of black metal and edm but also classical. Noise cancelling options would be handy. Audio quality is the most important thing



The sony XM3s might fit that bill. Get the app and turn on bass for EDM. A bit pricey but you did say you didnt care. 

I personally am a fan of the Liberty Pro 2 but they do encroach on sibilance.

Perhaps te Nuarl 6 line.


----------



## voicemaster

amphibians said:


> Hey, sorry if this is the wrong place but it looks like purchase advice is ok here...
> 
> Looking for recommendations on truly wireless buds to use for calls/meetings/running. Don't care so much about ANC, but some isolation would be appreciated. reasonable sound quality, comfort, and call quality are the most important. Happy spending up to $300 but somewhat flexible. Don't care too much about ANC. For music, mostly jazz of all types, and R&B/Soul.
> 
> I currently use WH1000XM3 for day-to-day but they are awful on calls. For running I have a pair of jaybird tarah pros which have held up admirably but are super uncomfortable. Thanks!


The new Fiil T1 pro is nice or you can get the similar one the Earfun Free pro on Amazon. For calling, I haven't seen any that can beat the Samsung Galaxy buds line up yet.


----------



## Damz87

gazzington said:


> Hi. I’m after some advice. I have plenty of great audio gear but I want to go more wireless. What would be great earphones to go for? Don’t mind how expensive they are if they are good. In listen to lots of black metal and edm but also classical. Noise cancelling options would be handy. Audio quality is the most important thing


The Sony xm3’s in “excited” preset sound pretty darn good with edm


----------



## Slater (Dec 6, 2020)

Thinking of getting a new TWS to replace my aging SSK BT-03 and QCY QS1.

I’m considering the FIIL T1 Pro and the Tranya M10 ($36 on Amazon).

Any opinions?

I don’t care about wireless charging, Type C vs microusb, or the Frankenstein bolt look.

What I DO care about is at least 6hrs of batter life, Bluetooth stability, call/microphone quality, and of course good sound.

Ambient mode would be a plus. Physical buttons would be a plus.

Is the Earfun Free Pro the exact same thing as the FIIL, only cheaper?

Thanks


----------



## voicemaster

Slater said:


> Thinking of getting a new TWS to replace my aging SSK BT-03 and QCY QS1.
> 
> I’m considering the FIIL T1 Pro and the Tranya M10 ($36 on Amazon).
> 
> ...


I just got the earfun free pro yesterday and loving the sound. It sounds similar to the Fiil T1X with boosted bass, it is more of a fun sounding than flat. It is quite tiny (both the case and the earbuds). The connection is pretty solid so far, haven't tried the call quality yet so I can't comment on that. It does have ambient tho it is not as good as Audio Technica or Galaxy buds plus. Touch control is also pretty responsive and easy to use. The only difference I can see from this to the T1 pro is the lack of an app to change the settings, etc.


----------



## melon220

regancipher said:


> You won't get much better than the T1 Pro for all round strength in depth.
> 
> Sound quality is very decent, but after a bit of scrutiny I discovered they have prioritised latency, and to get round the Qualcomm license fee requirement for Aptx, have cut corners - they've only partially implemented AAC-LC, skipping some of the better features that mpeg-4 gives you over mpeg-2 such as SBR, and like Samsung have reduced the bitpool on SBC. Whilst the tuning is pretty good - albeit a tad too V-shaped for my liking - the over compression comes across when songs peak. Don't get me wrong - their tuning alone is better than 95% of other tws out there - but it's worth remembering why they cost what they do and why you can't get a set of momentum for the same price (aside from the obvious sunk costs of doing business)
> 
> ...


Thank you very much for your response. After reading through opinions I came to the conclusion that the Fiils are the best that money can get. 
But your opinion helped to clarify that even more.
Thanks 😊


----------



## Eyalpaz

Read some recent posts here. For a pure bass head like me honoring SQ and ANC. What would you guys go for with a budget of ~150$?
Technichs Az70 vs wait for melomania touch vs stretch budget for the mw07 or Senheiser 2 vs Victor?


----------



## Thesonofkrypton

For that budget it’s so easy to recommend the Sony XM3s, they’re just so good on the sound front. I listen to a lot EDM and it’s more than sufficient bass wise.

However, I’m also going to try out the Melomania Touch when they’re out, they look like they’d be more comfy than the Sony.


----------



## jibberish

Eyalpaz said:


> Read some recent posts here. For a pure bass head like me honoring SQ and ANC. What would you guys go for with a budget of ~150$?
> Technichs Az70 vs wait for melomania touch vs stretch budget for the mw07 or Senheiser 2 vs Victor?


If you are a bass head then I would not recommend the AZ70.  It has a balanced tuning, the bass is not over emphasized compared to the mids and treble. Even with bass EQ turned all the way up, they're not in bass head territory.


----------



## voicemaster

Eyalpaz said:


> Read some recent posts here. For a pure bass head like me honoring SQ and ANC. What would you guys go for with a budget of ~150$?
> Technichs Az70 vs wait for melomania touch vs stretch budget for the mw07 or Senheiser 2 vs Victor?


Earfun free pro is good for bass head. The bass hit hard and it has a lot of it too while still providing the clarity of sound.


----------



## dweaver

Eyalpaz said:


> Read some recent posts here. For a pure bass head like me honoring SQ and ANC. What would you guys go for with a budget of ~150$?
> Technichs Az70 vs wait for melomania touch vs stretch budget for the mw07 or Senheiser 2 vs Victor?


I love my AZ70 but if you really love bass I am not sure it will fit your bill. The WF-1000XM3 may be a better option or the MTW 2 . I have not heard the MW07 so can't say and have no idea what the new Melomania will sound like.


----------



## FYLegend

wow, those who bought the Jabra 75t on Amazon on Black Friday/Cyber Monday just got duped! It's been 170$ for the past few days. Makes you wonder if it will go even lower for Boxing Day.



regancipher said:


> You won't get much better than the T1 Pro for all round strength in depth.
> 
> Sound quality is very decent, but after a bit of scrutiny I discovered they have prioritised latency, and to get round the Qualcomm license fee requirement for Aptx, have cut corners - they've only partially implemented AAC-LC, skipping some of the better features that mpeg-4 gives you over mpeg-2 such as SBR, and like Samsung have reduced the bitpool on SBC. Whilst the tuning is pretty good - albeit a tad too V-shaped for my liking - the over compression comes across when songs peak. Don't get me wrong - their tuning alone is better than 95% of other tws out there - but it's worth remembering why they cost what they do and why you can't get a set of momentum for the same price (aside from the obvious sunk costs of doing business)


The reduced bitpool is pretty disappointing, I thought budget brands were less likely to screw around with these settings. How bad does it sound with SBC? The Samsung Buds+ has a noticeable rattle in certain tracks, does this happen on the T1 Pro as well? I have the Earfun Free Pro on the way and am expecting the same... I can't see any other reason they would do this except to make people use TWS on their mobiles or maybe to make the connection more stable on SBC. Even so I find the GBuds+ connection on my Windows 10 device to be far worse than through my Note 9.


----------



## voicemaster

FYLegend said:


> wow, those who bought the Jabra 75t on Amazon on Black Friday/Cyber Monday just got duped! It's been 170$ for the past few days. Makes you wonder if it will go even lower for Boxing Day.
> 
> 
> The reduced bitpool is pretty disappointing, I thought budget brands were less likely to screw around with these settings. How bad does it sound with SBC? The Samsung Buds+ has a noticeable rattle in certain tracks, does this happen on the T1 Pro as well? I have the Earfun Free Pro on the way and am expecting the same... I can't see any other reason they would do this except to make people use TWS on their mobiles or maybe to make the connection more stable on SBC. Even so I find the GBuds+ connection on my Windows 10 device to be far worse than through my Note 9.


My T1X always use AAC even when connected to android. It is fine and I couldn't hear any rattle at all. GBuds+ on the other hand is pretty noticeable when connected to my PC.


----------



## Tommy C

FYLegend said:


> wow, those who bought the Jabra 75t on Amazon on Black Friday/Cyber Monday just got duped! It's been 170$ for the past few days. Makes you wonder if it will go even lower for Boxing Day.
> 
> 
> The reduced bitpool is pretty disappointing, I thought budget brands were less likely to screw around with these settings. How bad does it sound with SBC? The Samsung Buds+ has a noticeable rattle in certain tracks, does this happen on the T1 Pro as well? I have the Earfun Free Pro on the way and am expecting the same... I can't see any other reason they would do this except to make people use TWS on their mobiles or maybe to make the connection more stable on SBC. Even so I find the GBuds+ connection on my Windows 10 device to be far worse than through my Note 9.



Why do you feel they got duped? Pretty common for companies to run promos a week or so after Black Friday/ Cyber Monday week but to those who may feel this way, they can always return to Amazon. No biggie so not sure what you meant.


----------



## FYLegend

Tommy C said:


> Why do you feel they got duped? Pretty common for companies to run promos a week or so after Black Friday/ Cyber Monday week but to those who may feel this way, they can always return to Amazon. No biggie so not sure what you meant.


it dropped even more after Cyber Monday than before


----------



## Tommy C

FYLegend said:


> it dropped even more after Cyber Monday than before



So they could order at the lower price and return the ones they got during BF, no? 
Still well within the 30 days return window. 
Amazon is notorious for price drops but at least their return policy is very good even for used items.


----------



## Eyalpaz (Dec 7, 2020)

Deleted


----------



## Eyalpaz

dweaver said:


> I love my AZ70 but if you really love bass I am not sure it will fit your bill. The WF-1000XM3 may be a better option or the MTW 2 . I have not heard the MW07 so can't say and have no idea what the new Melomania will sound like.



Mtw2 is not within my budget and the sony's just looks so popular that it makes me wanna puke. Also, they are pretty old already, when I buy I prefer buying relatively new models.
Back in the day the chinese IEMs gave hell of a fight to the Western ones. Is it similar today? Do we have the Dunu equivalent in TWS?


----------



## Thesonofkrypton

Well the Sony are popular because they sound really good lol not sure if that’s a requirement of yours or not 😅

I’d wait it out, should be more options and reviews in a month or two. B&W PI5 + 7, RHA TrueControl, CA Melomania Touch, WF-1000xm4 (? 🤞)


----------



## Caipirina

So, after a long time I finally managed to order something new! Yeah Me! (Well, maybe the seller still cancels!) 

After reading around here the frequent mention of the Fiil T1 Pro (and so far I did not get to try any of the Fiil offerings) I was curious and looked around and I think I was really giddy when I saw on AE that 2 sellers had somewhat 'civilized' shipping costs of around 10$  (compared to most others that want 50 to over 100$ for my exotic location) .. one seller has a 71% rating, so that's a no go ... the other seems ok and now I paid 73$ shipped ... which considering how much money I am saving this year for not flying anywhere feels somewhat ok. 

Less ok is the wait time now ... it says I will receive it before MARCH 6th ... so ... 4 months is now the max wait time ... yippieh .. by then those are obsolete, but what can a TWS addict do?


----------



## dweaver

Eyalpaz said:


> Mtw2 is not within my budget and the sony's just looks so popular that it makes me wanna puke. Also, they are pretty old already, when I buy I prefer buying relatively new models.
> Back in the day the chinese IEMs gave hell of a fight to the Western ones. Is it similar today? Do we have the Dunu equivalent in TWS?


I have to say a bit of the reason I never bought the WF-1000XM3 was a bit of anti popularity social bias LOL. OK when you say your a bass head what does that mean to you? Does that mean you want bass to always present or only hard hitting or deep when required in the song. Do you like a subwoofer type effect or just want it to fully capture the sound of the instrument? If you want something elevated all the time or a big subwoofer type effect the AZ70 is not for you. But if you want those other aspects I mentioned it might be your cup of tea. If you can order from a source where it can be returned then I would recommend taking a serious look at it.

OK, so my AZ70 just did an update this morning and I think they may have done a bit of a tweak to the sound signature @jibberish have you installed the new firmware? Just wanting to get your or anyone else who owns the AZ70 impression on the new update? To me its like they toned down the upper mids and treble a smidge and boosted the bass a bit. Just wanting to make sure its not just my imagination on my part. I like it, it just inched the signature closer to perfect for me. 

In fact as I am listening I am super enthralled by my music at the moment. I have tried 3 different tracks I use to judge bass and all 3 sound fuller and deeper. If they release another update unless I am having issues I doubt I would apply it because this is as close to perfect as I have heard in any IEM I have owned. It is what I would call basshead-audiophile quality bass at the moment (not quite basshead level and not audiophile quality but boosted high quality bass). Volume wise I am listening at about 33% volume. Just switched to a song called Zombie by Nelly Mckay and this song has a great double bass throughout the song and lots of cymbal work so shows bass and exposes overly cooked treble and is also one of the best 3D positional tracts I have every heard. When I listened to this initially the treble was slightly to hot and the doublebass was missing just a smidge of the instruments heft and the 3D soundscape was a bit compressed. Now the doublebass is awesome, the high hats have just a bit less crash, and the 3D positioning sounds a bit wider / less congested.

So while these may not be perfect for everyone they are now perfect for me...

Going to be doing up a full review soon these babies as they deserve it.


----------



## danimoca (Dec 7, 2020)

Either I'm too fussy or I don't know...

Received a pair of 1More Colorbuds the other day.

Don't like the way they sound. Cramped sound, too much lower highs. Generally unrefined. Bass is very controlled and on-point tough. But that's it.

I'm a bit frustrated. I already didn't like the Lypertek Tevi's. Also found them a bit too hot on the highs.

The only TWS's I liked until now were the 1More Stylish's.

Is there something wrong here or am I simply a bit too fussy?


----------



## TK33

For those of you who have the original Senn MTWs, I had sent mine in to them for repair due to my case breaking at the hinge (delivered to them last Monday due to the Thanksgiving holiday) and...look what I just found at my doorstep today (only a week later)!

I have to give credit to Sennheiser for honoring their great warranty.  They do have a 2 year warranty and the whole process was very easy (I did not even have to talk to anyone and just did it through their service portal).  Only cost me the price of shipping but I now have a new pair (box is sealed and looks just like the retail package I got from Best Buy).


----------



## rhsauer (Dec 7, 2020)

Are the Mpow X5, the Tozo NC9, and the Taotronics SoundLiberty 94 (and probably a few other brands) basically the exact same earphones, rebranded with minor cosmetic (and button function) differences?  In other words, should the sound, the battery life, the connectivity, and the ANC be identical?  Or have people noticed actual differences between them?


----------



## bladefd (Dec 7, 2020)

I had a week to test the Sennheiser cx 400BT (got it for $130) and Technics AZ70 ($160). Both were spectacular.

*Packing/case* - Az70 wins this one easily. Packing you only care about for 5mins then you put aside & never look at again. Therefore I don’t put much stock into the packing, but Az70 definitely feels more premium. Case is important. Az70’s case is higher quality. Sennheiser is good too but looks cheap next to Technics one. Both get the job done so it probably doesn’t matter much which case you have.

*App* - Technics has slightly better app. I like being able to control everything including noise cancellation, ambient sound & volume through the app.
Sennheiser app is much more basic. I like being able to remap the touch controls. That's the only advantage over the AZ70's app.

*Comfort* - Both are comfortable. I feel like AZ70 would fall out even though they were securely in. They are comfortable over multiple hours while sitting listening to music. Sennheiser feels large and bit clunky in the ears. Between the two, AZ70 is bit more comfortable.

----------

To test the audio, I used Amazon music HD and only HD songs. I’m pretty sure they are not FLAC unfortunately. Ultra HD on Amazon might be flac, but not many songs have that designation. Most have HD designation.

*Bass* - Az70 is deep & very clean thump if notes go low with no distortion that you might get on low-quality cheap earbuds. Bass is not particularly powerful so if you want lots of bass, this is not it for you. Most of my everyday music doesn't tend be very bass-heavy so I don't mind it (much of my music is focused on vocals with quite a bit of classical instrumental - plenty of drums but not bass heavy). I listened to Carl Orff's famous Carmina burana (O fortuna) with deep choir, drums, violins, bass, possibly cello too and brass instruments.
Sennheiser definitely has better bass. It is more powerful while still maintaining the clean thump that is on the AZ70 with no distortions. Sennheiser wins this one for sure.

*Mids* - AZ70 has clear smooth mids. This is where you enter the vocals territory. Mids sound very balanced to me.
Both are pretty equal to me. Sennheiser’s lows & highs are better so you would probably feel that it overall sounds better than AZ70, but to me there is no clear advantage to either/or for mids. They are pretty balanced.

*Highs/Treble* - Az70 sounds very good at the highs. I chose to focus on “Concerning Hobbit” musical for this one from the Lord of the Rings (lots of mids too mixed in) and some saxophone jazz piece I found on YouTube. Highs are not blurry, but I could have sworn there was minor distortion on some instrument notes. Highs in vocals sounded very clear though.
This is close, but I think Sennheiser has this one. It is possible the soundstage advantage of Sennheiser is why highs sound better. Regardless of the reason, Sennheiser sounds better at the highs. It was most apparent with Concerning Hobbits, which has flute/piccolo/other high wind instruments.

I didn’t make full use of sound enhancement equalizer. If truth be told, I had tough time telling the difference - it was not obvious. For az70, I mainly struck to “Clear voice” preset. It sounded tiny bit better than keeping sound enhancement off, but very subtle difference to me. I tried messing with equalizer but didn’t know what I was doing. Left it alone afterwards.
For the sennheiser, it was even tougher with only the equalizer & no presets. I ended up keeping it at default.

*Soundstage* - I listened to Beethoven’s Fur Elise and Heart of Courage were used for soundstage. Fur Elise is all piano while Heart of Courage has some drums, bass, violins, the whole shebang. AZ70 is bit lacking here. I also listened to Clarity by Zedd with vocals. All very clear and detailed intricate vocals but soundstage felt lacking compared to the cx400bt.
I don't think this is a fair comparison. Sennheiser is almost in a different class as I go through the same exact pieces I listened to with the AZ70. Heart of courage sounded spectacular -- mids and highs sounded very similar between the two, but the drums and vocals gave advantage to the Sennheiser.

*Details* - I wanted to separate this a bit from Soundstage. Az70 sounds bit lacking in soundstage relative to the Sennheiser l, but I don't want anyone to think it is missing in details or clarity. No, it is very detailed and you can clearly distinguish between different instruments. I listened to Carl Orff's Carmina burana (O fortuna) once again. It was spectacular.
In direct comparison, Sennheiser definitely seems to be bit more detailed & dare-I-say polished. It is almost neck-to-neck though. I had a tough time telling the difference. Their sound signatures are slightly different.

*Features* - AZ70 wins here. It has ANC (cx400bt does not). AZ70 has sensor to auto-pause on removal (cx400bt does not). It has ambient mode (cx400bt does not). For me personally, I have no intention of ever using ANC, and I don’t care about auto-pause on removal. I do miss ambient mode though. I wish it had ambient mode..
Sennheiser is a $130 earbud ($30 cheaper than AZ70). It’s obvious to me they didn’t want to overstep into the MTW2 sales, which is why they removed all features including even IPX4. I’m surprised they offer 2yr warranty.


Overall, Sennheiser cx400bt has better sound easily. But you get no features.
Technics AZ70 is bit more comfortable and has full features. But bit higher cost - probably $30-40 more.

Since I don’t need ANC, I’m going with Sennheiser cx400bt. Again, I wish I had ambient mode & I would expect IPX2 at least for the $130 I’m spending. I don’t care about anything else it’s missing.

I do wonder if there are better more comfortable ear tips available out there to make the cx400bt more comfortable. If I can get that to improve, it easily wins this one matchup.


----------



## dweaver

Have you sent the AZ70 back yet? If not they just released a new update for the IEM and it changes the sound quite a bit I think. Can you apply the update and give your new impressions before you send them back?


----------



## bladefd

dweaver said:


> Have you sent the AZ70 back yet? If not they just released a new update for the IEM and it changes the sound quite a bit I think. Can you apply the update and give your new impressions before you send them back?



I packed them, but I will definitely unpack & try once more tonight (I always test when family is asleep and tvs are off late in night - I need silence). I will run through the same songs. Will post my thoughts tomorrow


----------



## howdy

TK33 said:


> For those of you who have the original Senn MTWs, I had sent mine in to them for repair due to my case breaking at the hinge (delivered to them last Monday due to the Thanksgiving holiday) and...look what I just found at my doorstep today (only a week later)!
> 
> I have to give credit to Sennheiser for honoring their great warranty.  They do have a 2 year warranty and the whole process was very easy (I did not even have to talk to anyone and just did it through their service portal).  Only cost me the price of shipping but I now have a new pair (box is sealed and looks just like the retail package I got from Best Buy).


I sent them an email, hopefully they will answer back soon. That sure would be cool to get a new pair!


----------



## TK33 (Dec 7, 2020)

howdy said:


> I sent them an email, hopefully they will answer back soon. That sure would be cool to get a new pair!


I didn't even bother calling or emailing them...I just created a ticket through the service portal, mailed them in following the instructions and hoped for the best.

https://service.sennheiserusa.com/

I uploaded.a copy of my receipt to their portal but I just read the invoice and it said their portal was down so they couldn't confirm warranty but honored it anyway (I bought mine 15 months ago so it was still under warranty).  I guess I got lucky.  In retrospect, I probably should have included the receipt in the box to be safe.  When you go to submit a request in that portal, there is an option for the True Wireless Case.  I sent them the case and the earbuds just in case (figured they would need both to confirm I actually owned the earbuds and not just a broken case). Good luck.

Btw I charged them up and realized I missed the MTWs and still think they are great.


----------



## bladefd

dweaver said:


> Have you sent the AZ70 back yet? If not they just released a new update for the IEM and it changes the sound quite a bit I think. Can you apply the update and give your new impressions before you send them back?



I went through each of the songs after firmware update on Technics AZ70. The tough part is that I have no way to A/B test with & without update. I can only go by my recollection of pre-update to the best of my abilities without knowing what was changed & what wasn’t.

Carmina Burina (o fortuna) - Bass is still not as powerful as cx400bt. Soundstage is still lacking.

Next up "Concerning Hobbits" - Mids are probably about the same. Highs are still awesome - I can't really tell with this song if they were toned down. I do prefer the Senns for highs because they are bit more detailed & rich.
For vocals going high - I listened to Journey's 'Don't Stop Believing'. Very clear highs without distortion. There is no way you would not enjoy this AZ70's sound signature - it's fun and clear. Senns are just a tiny bit better.

Heart of Courage - AZ70 still missing that 'oomph' that Senns have in the bass region. Highs are nice. Soundstage still not quite like the Senns. Great detail - you can hear all of the instruments and differentiate them individually in Heart of Courage & O fortuna. Sennheiser has a minor advantage in details though - it's definitely noticeable if you do A/B testing.

'Clarity' by Zedd - Soundstage is still bit lacking relative to Senns. It is most observable when the music opens up in stretches. Vocals are clear. Highs might be bit tweaked here - I think you might be right, they may have toned it down a bit. I didn't think they needed to tbh. If they did, they probably did it to make bass stand out a bit, which might be a smart calculated change (I'm guessing without knowing for certain).

Beethoven’s Fur Elise - All piano. I would say it’s lots of mids, maybe with some highs. I felt it sounded just as good as before. I don’t know if frequency changed between updates. If update softened up treble frequencies a bit, it’s difficult to tell with 100% certainty without doing A/B testing.

Ran through 'Chariots of Fire' theme song and 'Conquest of Paradise' both by Vangelis. I don't have enough knowledge about music, but I can tell you the two songs have very different tones and pitches. Chariots of Fire is a musical with open style tone, which is good for soundstage test. I find it sounding good, certainly good enough for anyone, but Senns just have better stage depth tbh (sounds more open like being in an auditorium & more "spacey"). Conquest of Paradise is very different - it's bass deep vocals but with some background violins/other instruments that go high in notes & piano mids. Bass, well you know my thoughts on AZ70s bass strength by now 

Sennheiser cx400bt just has better overall sound. Technics AZ70 is close behind and good enough for anyone, but Senns have a slight advantage (significant advantage in lows & soundstage imo but the rest is close enough that it doesn’t matter all that much unless if you are stubbornly audiophilic). This is my first experience with earbuds so unfortunately I can’t compare it to anything else. I mean I have the HD600 and DT880 to compare to, but that’s not a very fair comparison to make, is it?


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## dweaver (Dec 8, 2020)

Thanks for taking the time to check. Like you I can't really AB test so don't know if what I hear is really different or just my imagination. To me the bass a bit bigger and the signature was warmer in nature.

Glad you found the one like though


----------



## FYLegend

rhsauer said:


> Are the Mpow X5, the Tozo NC9, and the Taotronics SoundLiberty 94 (and probably a few other brands) basically the exact same earphones, rebranded with minor cosmetic (and button function) differences?  In other words, should the sound, the battery life, the connectivity, and the ANC be identical?  Or have people noticed actual differences between them?


Not sure about the MPOW but various reviewers have stated the the NC9 and SoundLiberty 94 sound different - the NC9 is brighter with clearer mids, while the SoundLiberty are darker. CEONTHEMAKING said the NC9s sound and fit his ears better than the X5/TaoTronics, probably because it has slightly longer nozzles. He also stated the ANC is the same between them but El Jefe said the Tozos have better ANC than the TaoTronics. I think this might be down to their fit and tuning. I have the TaoTronics and find the ANC a tad underwhelming. It blocks out low frequencies well but it doesn't do much to higher frequencies which stand out more as a result (such as the screeching of a train or announcements). TaoTronics claims to have Bluetooth 5.1 but I'm not sure how much this makes a difference (I only have BT5.0 devices). I'm a bit disappointed by the connectivity as I get more dropouts than my Galaxy Buds+ when my hand is near the phone's Bluetooth antenna. I'm curious about the case battery life of the other ones, if I'm using ANC, I find my SL94 case drains too quickly (~10 hours) and have to charge by 1.5 days. The earbuds won't power off once the case is depleted.


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## jant71 (Dec 8, 2020)

Holy crap! Has hell frozen over?? Soul makes a model and doesn't leave out rewind and volume control??




Some might be interested in this one. S-Nano is quite the little thing which some certainly want and it does have ambient...





https://soulnation.com/products/s-nano


----------



## assassin10000

jant71 said:


> Holy crap! Has hell frozen over?? Soul makes a model and doesn't leave out rewind and volume control??
> 
> Some might be interested in this one. S-Nano is quite the little thing which some certainly want and it does have ambient...
> 
> https://soulnation.com/products/s-nano



Those look nice. Wish it had QI wireless charging.


----------



## Luke Skywalker

mymail0808 said:


> I have enough budget for
> soundpeats H1;
> Bose QuietComfort Earbuds
> or Sony WF-1000XM3 (good price in HK, much cheaper than bose)
> ...


I'd totally go with the Bose.  I have the Sony's and other than the ANC, I hate them.  I love the Nuarl N6P's however no ANC.  Still haven't found anywhere to buy the N10's


----------



## Luke Skywalker

Burakk said:


> Hey guys, I really need you help. I need good sound with very best ANC. I use AirPods daily use and calls but for flights ( ok, there are not much nowadays but let’s hope for near future) I need a good one. Bose’s earbuds seems interesting but I have no idea at all.


The Bose buds have great noise canceling and superb sound! I love mine and don't listen much to my beloved Nuarl N6P's or even my JH Lola's just because of that great noise canceling


----------



## Luke Skywalker

So Bose addressed the only thing I didn't like about the QC buds.  They pushed a firmware update that lets you raise and lower the volume by sliding your finger up and down on the right bud.  Awesome... I love them and figured i'd just have to live with the lack of volume controls


----------



## Invalid

Anyone here tried the noble falcon 2 and hifiman tws 800? Are they worth their asking price?


----------



## Tommy C

Luke Skywalker said:


> So Bose addressed the only thing I didn't like about the QC buds.  They pushed a firmware update that lets you raise and lower the volume by sliding your finger up and down on the right bud.  Awesome... I love them and figured i'd just have to live with the lack of volume controls



Does the Bose app have equalizer?


----------



## Thesonofkrypton

The falcoln 2 look good on paper, also like to know some sound impressions.  Tried the Bose recently and didn't like them, much prefer the XM3 to them sound wise.  This is a hard game to play, everyone has different needs and different ears lol.  The only real way of knowing whether something is right for you is unfortunately, trying them for yourself.


----------



## jant71 (Dec 8, 2020)

Invalid said:


> Anyone here tried the noble falcon 2 and hifiman tws 800? Are they worth their asking price?



Hifiman not worth the asking price and the first one was $249 and now goes for $69 so why buy at $299. Falcon 2 impressions are good but there is a Falcon Pro coming so it will be the lower model soon. If you are curious about the TWS800 at $299 the Falcon Pro is gonna be around $250 but adds dual Knowles armatures, new tips and a new three layer diaphragm with titanium coating. Plus a crossover since it is a hybrid now and Wizard continuing to work on the tuning. Just not out yet though.


----------



## Luke Skywalker

Tommy C said:


> Does the Bose app have equalizer?


I don't think there is an equalizer capability in the app.  This will probably sound idiotic but I'm glad that it doesn't.  I spent hours fiddling around with EQ settings for my Sony XM3 and I love that the Bose sound perfect to my ears without having to monkey around with settings. 

To qualify this, I don't listen to a lot of heavy bass stuff.  Mostly classical and opera, female vocals, instrumental guitar, pink floyd, electronic...


----------



## Luke Skywalker

Man so I've been looking everywhere for the N10P's and I just found a site selling them for $334.  That's kind of crazy... I'm not too price sensitive but that's a jump up even from the Bose.  

Anyone see them any cheaper?  If not, are they worth it?  https://www.earspan.com/product/nuarl-n10-pro/


----------



## DUNU-Topsound

Eyalpaz said:


> Mtw2 is not within my budget and the sony's just looks so popular that it makes me wanna puke. Also, they are pretty old already, when I buy I prefer buying relatively new models.
> Back in the day the chinese IEMs gave hell of a fight to the Western ones. Is it similar today? Do we have the Dunu equivalent in TWS?



We have been developing our hybrid TWS model for a while. Most recently, we showed off an engineering unit at an audio show in China a couple of weeks ago to get some private feedback.

The model will mostly be tuned for the Chinese market, though. Currently, although we've joined the Qualcomm and Sony consortia of vendors, we aren't certified by regulatory bodies in the EU, US, and various other countries for Bluetooth wireless transmission/reception. That'll be the major hurdle getting this product out globally.

Sales of a good number of TWS models from China are not exactly 'by the book', but we want to be above board for stuff like this, so we're considering doing a crowdfunding campaign to secure the funds and means to have wireless certifications in most of the major markets.


----------



## FYLegend (Dec 9, 2020)

I finally received my 1More ANC which was on sale for Cyber Monday. Nice to finally have an AptX TWS that didn't end up as a dud with channel imbalance.

It says it was made in April 2020 but has the THX firmware. Supposedly June 2020 is the start of QuietMax/THX support but 1More has been telling users on Amazon that some of the older models sold there can still be updated. Some are still wary of this because they find the ANC underwhelming.

First impressions
- Switched to the medium-small red eartips as the default eartips weren't fitting evenly into my ears
- Deep bass while retaining some great treble detail. Reminds me of the 1More Triple Driver IEM with its tall, metallic/brassy treble texture and detail retrieval. With the volume too high, however, the treble becomes too airy and borderline sibilant. It also seems unforgiving of tracks with intentional crackling
- Not much tuning difference between ANC on/off. I think this is what is meant by the THX update.
- Ambient hearthrough is usable but underwhelming - there is also some crackling on the left bud.
- Maybe due to the BA drivers, they also don't respond well to EQ. Would be nice to have a Wavelet setting as it clips with the other 1More settings...
- Noise cancelling is good but doesn't do much for high frequencies


----------



## Bhelpoori

Luke Skywalker said:


> Man so I've been looking everywhere for the N10P's and I just found a site selling them for $334.  That's kind of crazy... I'm not too price sensitive but that's a jump up even from the Bose.
> 
> Anyone see them any cheaper?  If not, are they worth it?  https://www.earspan.com/product/nuarl-n10-pro/


They are Australian Dollars so about $250 US. Earspan is a well recognised company. However, the N10 pros aren't available on Amazon.jp and haven't been for a while... which is strange and may indicate a revision going on.


----------



## bubsdaddy

DUNU-Topsound said:


> We have been developing our hybrid TWS model for a while. Most recently, we showed off an engineering unit at an audio show in China a couple of weeks ago to get some private feedback.
> 
> The model will mostly be tuned for the Chinese market, though. Currently, although we've joined the Qualcomm and Sony consortia of vendors, we aren't certified by regulatory bodies in the EU, US, and various other countries for Bluetooth wireless transmission/reception. That'll be the major hurdle getting this product out globally.
> 
> Sales of a good number of TWS models from China are not exactly 'by the book', but we want to be above board for stuff like this, so we're considering doing a crowdfunding campaign to secure the funds and means to have wireless certifications in most of the major markets.



I still love my old pair of Tridents. A TWS version would be wonderful.


----------



## DUNU-Topsound

bubsdaddy said:


> I still love my old pair of Tridents. A TWS version would be wonderful.



We've come a long, _long_ way from the Trident! Glad to hear it's still holding up! Will definitely let everyone know how we plan on proceeding with our wireless plans.


----------



## dweaver

Just put up a review of the AZ70 for anyone interested.


----------



## FYLegend

Can someone confirm that their 1More ANC doesn't remember the ANC setting from the last usage? Seems rather counterintuitive...


----------



## paleredfox (Dec 11, 2020)

If it helps, I’ve tried a few pairs over the past month - not deliberately, just trying to find a decent set for the price.

Anker Soundcore P2 - decent enough, lacking bass and passive isolation but a volume issue and returned for: £35

Tozo NC9 - worse than above sound wise considering specifications and functions. Better fit and passive isolation but ANC/Ambient not worth the purchase price and review hype so returned for:

Tronsmart Apollo Bold

- Better than the Tozo for features and quality of features etc but still I found the overall sound quality pretty poor due to the badly bloated bass emphasised sound which couldn’t be tamed or improved via eq or the tronsmart app.  £80

Now out of those three I would have the Anker and use foam tips because they were the best for price point and price paid.  The other two just simply aren’t worth the money in all comparisons.

I tried the Soundpeats true air2 as a cheap option but couldn’t get on with that style of earphone due to external noise.

i had given up looking as I reviewed and researched both the Tozo and Apollo through the thread and external reviewers and was disappointed.

However, within Amazon the Panasonic RZ500 was reduced from £149.99 down to £99.99 and then another further coupon for £15.99 for the Black took it down to £84.

Received them today, sound/features/isolation etc all different class to the ones above and well
Worth it.

*Update

These were great for sound in the house.

However, intermittent connection loss while walking in the city and also poor call quality for the receiver means they have to go back - static and screeching during call on her end.

Undecided to if going to swap like for like yet


----------



## Firevortex

Luke Skywalker said:


> Man so I've been looking everywhere for the N10P's and I just found a site selling them for $334.  That's kind of crazy... I'm not too price sensitive but that's a jump up even from the Bose.
> 
> Anyone see them any cheaper?  If not, are they worth it?  https://www.earspan.com/product/nuarl-n10-pro/



That's the site i purchased my N10P from on release date. they are fantastic with their shipping speed and support. Even sent me those memory foam eartips for free also updated me regarding upcoming firmware updates etc... They are based in Australia and only ship to Australia and Newzealand. Their price is in AUD and when i made the purchase the conversion rate isn't that much expensive then Nuarl Japanese release price of  25,000YEN. i bought my Bose QC for $399AUD so $330AUD is much cheaper than the Bose QC and definitely worth it for me as i don't use ANC that much those days.


----------



## tomb

erockg said:


> Klipsch T5 II are 50% off for Black Friday right now on Amazon.  Love mine!                                              Klipsch T5 II True Wireless Gunmetal



No, we are NOT THERE YET, nor will we ever be, with current technology.

I bought into this on Black Friday weekend, having used Klipsch IEMs for many years.  They may be the best available for wireless, but that still sucks - big time.  My lowly original WIRED Klipsch S4 with comply tips beats the T5 II to hell and back, with a couple of trips around the sun, to boot.

It's not even remotely close.  I think the cheapest $2 WIRED earbuds in existence sound better than the T5 II wireless, not to mention my Klipsch S4, Sony MDR-E747, or even my Koss KSC-75.  They're god-awful.  Yeah, it's a neat product with great packaging, the Zippo container/charger, lots of features and adjustments, etc.  They have a pleasant bass foundation with enough emphasis on clicks and taps to make you think it's detailed, but it's all fake, not a real representation of the music.  And it falls apart fast on complicated music.  Wireless with reasonable sound quality?  NO, NO, NO.

I've returned them to Amazon.

P.S. For any of you runners out there - they also felt like my ears were being boxed (slapped) with every stride.  I'm used to cable microphonics every time I run, but this is much, much worse on the ears.  Yeah, I tried numerous tips, but that's another complaint - the designed connection for the tips sucks, big time.  Good luck getting replacements/upgrades on tips.


----------



## myltz400

Lol, I read this post so often that I forget the OP question.  I agree with you tomb!  They are however addictive because of so many styles and sound signatures...but they all suck when compared to wired.


----------



## jibberish

@dweaver I updated the AZ70 firmware last night.  I will be honest that I don't really perceive any notable difference in tuning.  When I turned the eq off I thought the upper mids were still a little bit too forward.

Still really enjoying them on the whole though.


----------



## dweaver

jibberish said:


> @dweaver I updated the AZ70 firmware last night.  I will be honest that I don't really perceive any notable difference in tuning.  When I turned the eq off I thought the upper mids were still a little bit too forward.
> 
> Still really enjoying them on the whole though.



OK your the 2nd person to say the update did not affect the sound. It must be a mental thing for me. I will likely rewrite my review then as I appear to be having memory bias on what I am hearing and have no way to AB this to confirm it.

Thanks for letting me know.


----------



## jhwalker

Now that folks are beginning to receive their Devialet Geminis - what are your thoughts?

I'll say mine have GREAT sound, but the Bluetooth pairing / switching between devices, etc., is ... not what I expected after using Apple AirPod Pros for the past few months.  The Apples are pretty much unshakeable and very easy to switch between devices, while the Devialets are a good example of what I've come to expect from a lesser Bluetooth implementation.

I'll probably keep them, because the sound is great and hoping future firmware updates may improve Bluetooth, but would like to hear about others' experiences.


----------



## Laethageal

jhwalker said:


> Now that folks are beginning to receive their Devialet Geminis - what are your thoughts?
> 
> I'll say mine have GREAT sound, but the Bluetooth pairing / switching between devices, etc., is ... not what I expected after using Apple AirPod Pros for the past few months.  The Apples are pretty much unshakeable and very easy to switch between devices, while the Devialets are a good example of what I've come to expect from a lesser Bluetooth implementation.
> 
> I'll probably keep them, because the sound is great and hoping future firmware updates may improve Bluetooth, but would like to hear about others' experiences.



I was looking forward to getting the Gemini but they are over my financial capacity atm due to some major health issue at home. 

Still, I'd be very curious to hear more of ypur thoughts about it, it's SQ, ANC and ambient mode if you ever feel like it. With some luck, I will be able to order one pair this year. Meanwhile, I'll salivate when reading about it 🤣


----------



## BigAund (Dec 10, 2020)

New RHA ANC arrived earlier in the week. Sadly they are now broken, the left bud has packed up completely and has no sound. The app is garbage too. Its a disappointing product from RHA. When they did work, i had a lot of stuttering and had to disconnect and reconnect to resolve it, this evening I go to use them and although they pair, the left bud has no music but oddly still has the inbuilt prompts audible. Anyway, I'd avoid. Seems like a rushed out product, I'm majorly disappointed it was an early Christmas present to  myself @RHA Team

Only positive i can say is they're comfortable to wear


----------



## dweaver

Updated my AH70 review removing details about firmware upgrade as it appears to not make a change to the signature. The good news is I am really liking their sound so must have grown used to the signature to the point I don't feel like I am missing anything anymore .

Have to say its been a while since I had a headphone where I didn't wish for changes to the signature! Hope everyone else finds something that works for them. I am going to just sit back and enjoy for a while... Maybe go find that thread where people list their latest favorite music and see what's new out there in the actual music world!

Have fun everyone, and happy listening  .


----------



## MadMike

dweaver said:


> Updated my AH70 review removing details about firmware upgrade as it appears to not make a change to the signature. The good news is I am really liking their sound so must have grown used to the signature to the point I don't feel like I am missing anything anymore .
> 
> Have to say its been a while since I had a headphone where I didn't wish for changes to the signature! Hope everyone else finds something that works for them. I am going to just sit back and enjoy for a while... Maybe go find that thread where people list their latest favorite music and see what's new out there in the actual music world!
> 
> Have fun everyone, and happy listening  .


Thanks for your detailed impressions of the AZ70! I have the RZ-500w, which are tuned similarly though not the same internals. I've had them for several months and I like them very much. I updated the firmware and have no complaints- very difficult to notice any differences without being able to A/B before and after firmware update. As long as I don't listen to them shortly after listening to my main setup (Focal Elear, SMSL SP200 Amp, TEAC UD-301 DAC) all is good! They hold their own against my B&W P7 wireless headphones.


----------



## jasonb (Dec 10, 2020)

I got the Galaxy Buds Plus the other day on sale for $99. I'm liking then a lot. For low to lowish volume listening (24 to 32% on my Pixel) I think they sound great and don't require any EQ to fit my IEM preference. The overall frequency response is really good. Perfect level of bass for my tastes, mids aren't recessed, treble has really good sparkle. This is using the Spinfit CP360 tips though. I prefer the fit, comfort, and sound of the Spinfits on these. The ambient sound is also pretty good as long as it isn't too breezy outside. Comfort is really good, even for long(ish) listening sessions, and with the "wingtips" and they way they twist in when you put them in they aren't going anywhere. Battery life is of course really good with these. The case is pretty small and pocketable. These are my new "daily" and the WF-1000XM3 will be for when I want ANC.


----------



## varta

Hey everyone, I just wanted to share some first impressions of the Fiil T1 Pro I got today. Note these are my first TWS and I was used to the VSonic GR07 Classic for use "on the road" and Audio Technicas ATH-M50x for use at home. As those are my daily drivers, these were what I compared the T1 Pros to. I also want to emphasise that the T1 Pros are my first pair of TWS, so I wanted to offer a point of view of someone coming from regular headphones/IEMs, mainly wrt sound quality.

Honestly, when I ordered these on 11/11 for $58 with all the coupons and sales, I didn't know what to expect, and although my expectations were kind of hyped from Scarbir's review, I didn't expect these to match my VSonics SQ-wise. Well, turned out I was right  Having said that, though, I also have to say that I'm writing this text with the T1 Pros in my ears for over 2 hours straight with a smile on my face, so let me elaborate on that a bit.

*First impressions*
When I first turned these on and played the first track that just happened to be currently on my Spotify playlist, I was unimpressed. There was too much bass for my taste, the mids were way too forward causing that unpleasant "blanket" effect. Admittedly, "Behold The Crown by After The Burial" didn't really shine on these.

*Testing and tuning*
I decided to move genre-wise to a couple of pop-rock(ish) tracks, which improved things a bit, but still didn't reach the expected SQ level, so I started EQ-ing. Decreasing the low frequency spectrum just a little bit and then the mids by a bit more got me to a level where these started to sound pleasant to me. Now that I'm writing this it leads me to think whether I "tuned" them to a V-shaped sound or just corrected overemphasized mids, but I'll note that I used a completely flat equalizer (sometimes increasing the low frequencies by a very little bit) on the very neutral VSonics.
Anyway, even after doing this they still do sound very different, but after a few A/B/C comparisons between the Fiils, Vsonics and ATHs, I started to realise I'm actually getting to like the sound signature and found myself enjoying the music. Yes, on certain tracks the bass is still over-emphasized, but the mids problem could be pretty well eliminated by EQing, and I found the highs pretty good as-is. In terms of soundstage (and I gotta admit I am no expert on assessing this), I find the soundstage pretty mediocre compared to both the VSonics or Audio Technicas, but not to the point that it would annoy me. Unless I'm doing a direct A/B comparison with something clearly better, I don't really notice any shortcomings in this area, mainly after getting accustomed to the sound.

*Summary*
I have to say, that for less than $60, I'm impressed. I can totally see these being my daily driver for situations where I'd normally use IEMs, i.e. work commute on foot, getting somewhere by public transport, or just moving around the house while cleaning the apartment. These won't replace my full sized headphones for sure, but for the aforementioned use cases, or just some casual listening in general, these definitely won't end up forgotten in the bottom drawer.


----------



## bladefd

I find the Sennheiser cx400bt bit uncomfortable.. I'm using default ear tips, but my ear canals feel sore after ~3 hours.

I think they can use same ear-tips as Sennheiser MTW1 and MTW2. Has anyone tried different ear tips with their MTW1/2?? I ran across the Complyfoam Pro. I would be curious to know if that's the only option. I opened a ticket with Sennheiser 2 days ago but not heard back


----------



## caprimulgus

caprimulgus said:


> Or maybe it was just wishful thinking, trying to justify to myself buying both [Soundcore Liberty 2 Pro & Sennheiser MTW1]!





bronco1015 said:


> Do it!



OK, I did it! 

Had already bought the L2p for $107AUD ($80USD), and an even cheaper deal came up on the MTW1 for $100AUD ($75USD), so bought them too! 

Was tempted to buy the XB700 ($120AUD/90USD) and Jabra 65t ($100AUD/75USD) as well, lol. I almost ended up with 4 new pairs of TWS that I don't even need!


----------



## Thesonofkrypton

BigAund said:


> New RHA ANC arrived earlier in the week. Sadly they are now broken, the left bud has packed up completely and has no sound. The app is garbage too. Its a disappointing product from RHA. When they did work, i had a lot of stuttering and had to disconnect and reconnect to resolve it, this evening I go to use them and although they pair, the left bud has no music but oddly still has the inbuilt prompts audible. Anyway, I'd avoid. Seems like a rushed out product, I'm majorly disappointed it was an early Christmas present to  myself @RHA Team
> 
> Only positive i can say is they're comfortable to wear



Sorry to hear that, glad I didn't bite on their pre-order offer, I knew something was up with 0 reviews out there.  To be fair their wired stuff is very decent, they just haven't made the right transition to wireless yet with the right product.  I was right there from the start with the wireless 750 but they were no good and had to return, same thing with the true connect.


----------



## dweaver

caprimulgus said:


> OK, I did it!
> 
> Had already bought the L2p for $107AUD ($80USD), and an even cheaper deal came up on the MTW1 for $100AUD ($75USD), so bought them too!
> 
> Was tempted to buy the XB700 ($120AUD/90USD) and Jabra 65t ($100AUD/75USD) as well, lol. I almost ended up with 4 new pairs of TWS that I don't even need!


LOL if you had bought the XB700 we would have a similar collection . Having bought it I can say the other 2 will outperform it for voice calls, over all performance except for battery life which will go L2P, XB700, MTW (distant distant third). Signature wise the L2P are the bassist, MTW warm and expansive,  XB700 surprisingly most balanced of the three for the most part.

My MTW had all the classic battery, case/hinge issues and no longer hold a charge (think its a case issue) so I can't even do quick AB testing anymore.

The Anker has the best case out of all my IEMs it plasticky and basic but well designed in my opinion with great battery technology and design.

I love my new AZ70 for its sound and over functionality but wish it could have learned from the Anker case design...


----------



## mottykytu

Hi guys, I'm going to buy a real True wireless Earphone, and down to the Selection between B&O E8 (2.0) and the Noble Falcon TW, can you guys help me to compare them? many thanks !


----------



## howdy

Sent my Sennheiser MTW in today for the case warranty, hopefully I to will get a new pair! Good thing I did it now as my 2 year warranty is done the 20th of this month.


----------



## Luke Skywalker

Firevortex said:


> That's the site i purchased my N10P from on release date. they are fantastic with their shipping speed and support. Even sent me those memory foam eartips for free also updated me regarding upcoming firmware updates etc... They are based in Australia and only ship to Australia and Newzealand. Their price is in AUD and when i made the purchase the conversion rate isn't that much expensive then Nuarl Japanese release price of  25,000YEN. i bought my Bose QC for $399AUD so $330AUD is much cheaper than the Bose QC and definitely worth it for me as i don't use ANC that much those days.



Awesome, thanks!  I didn't spot the AUS $ haha.  Reminds me of that episode of Seinfeld where Kramer had the Japanese businessmen visiting and they had like 100,000 yen with them and didn't realize that it was only a few dollars or something american and they had to sleep in his dresser drawers


----------



## caprimulgus (Dec 11, 2020)

Luke Skywalker said:


> Awesome, thanks!  I didn't spot the AUS $ haha.



It's odd for an Australian business to have a .com domain (instead of .com.au) and to list in AUD without specifying that clearly. Especially when they aren't really targeting an international market (if they only ship to AU and NZ - which again makes it odd not to specify it's AUD).

Would never have known it was an Aussie site, aside from the address almost hidden in the corner!


----------



## FYLegend

Has anyone else had trouble with the left earbud of the 1More ANC not connecting? It has a red or blue light that doesn't change.

Also find it annoying I can't tweak ANC settings when using a single bud. I'd at least want to use ambient hear-through in these situations without having to go into their cumbersome app. Not only does the app take long to connect to the earbuds (and sometimes fails when music is playing), but my phone also keeps telling me it's draining battery. Finally, it seems you cannot disable auto-pause, only enable auto-pause and resume. I've had some situations where auto-pause is triggered accidentally.


----------



## Luke Skywalker

So I found some bone conduction sunglasses on indiegogo that are really intriguing. Does that count as true wireless?  A guy I work with has bone conduction headphones and says they're pretty awesome, but I don't think he's really an audiophile 

https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/snd-ray-the-best-hifi-bone-conduction-sunglasses/x/25383823#/


----------



## bladefd

Luke Skywalker said:


> So I found some bone conduction sunglasses on indiegogo that are really intriguing. Does that count as true wireless?  A guy I work with has bone conduction headphones and says they're pretty awesome, but I don't think he's really an audiophile
> 
> https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/snd-ray-the-best-hifi-bone-conduction-sunglasses/x/25383823#/



Wow, that's really something! It's not exactly IEMs, but I would be very curious to see how they sound! Maybe read early reviews


----------



## caprimulgus (Dec 12, 2020)

Luke Skywalker said:


> So I found some bone conduction sunglasses on indiegogo that are really intriguing. Does that count as true wireless?  A guy I work with has bone conduction headphones and says they're pretty awesome, but I don't think he's really an audiophile
> 
> https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/snd-ray-the-best-hifi-bone-conduction-sunglasses/x/25383823#/




Read the comments.

https://www.reddit.com/r/shittykick...ay_a_good_idea_thats_starting_to_look_like_a/


----------



## GeeD (Dec 12, 2020)

FYLegend said:


> Has anyone else had trouble with the left earbud of the 1More ANC not connecting? It has a red or blue light that doesn't change.
> 
> Also find it annoying I can't tweak ANC settings when using a single bud. I'd at least want to use ambient hear-through in these situations without having to go into their cumbersome app. Not only does the app take long to connect to the earbuds (and sometimes fails when music is playing), but my phone also keeps telling me it's draining battery. Finally, it seems you cannot disable auto-pause, only enable auto-pause and resume. I've had some situations where auto-pause is triggered accidentally.



Well I have REALLY gone off these, they add next to nothing over the 1More Stylish, or the Colorbuds (although the Colorbuds don't quite have the same warmth, when you do a back to back comparison).

Anyway ...wot you said +
The Left bud battery goes flat when left in the case doing nothing.  The case goes flat when left doing nothing.  The App is horrendously slow to connect, if it connects at all (on iOS). ANC on ... the sound changes to a tin can with no depth to it at all.  Same with ANC Low.  And passthrough ...sorry but I just don't see what the hubbub is all about tbh.

But hey, my firmware says 3.62 (THX) so they must be great  ...not!  (and I bought them even before they were released, thanks AliEx)

I love the sound with ANC off, but anything else is useless.  But the Stylish is just as good, or I tend to use the colorbuds if I'm out and about.


----------



## GeeD

For what it's worth I still think the 1More Stylish is the best sounding buds I've had ...and that's over the likes of Tevi and FiiL that folks go on about.  The ANC is just as good, but the ANC doesn't work so isn't worth it.
Maybe this game is about if you get a good sample or not, who knows.


----------



## fusionramjet

Laethageal said:


> I was looking forward to getting the Gemini but they are over my financial capacity atm due to some major health issue at home.
> 
> Still, I'd be very curious to hear more of ypur thoughts about it, it's SQ, ANC and ambient mode if you ever feel like it. With some luck, I will be able to order one pair this year. Meanwhile, I'll salivate when reading about it 🤣


I’m also very curious about it (mostly, the sound quality)!


----------



## greenkomodo1 (Dec 13, 2020)

So I have been through all of these:

Sony XM3
Jaybird Vista
Sennheiser MW2
M&D 07 PLUS
Jabra 85T.

I am finding they all hurt the outside of my ear. I used INNAIR foam ear tips as well as trying to the stock ones.

Anyone had a similar issues with TW earbuds?

**EDIT**Which headphones don't tend to press against your cartilidge?Perhaps my ears are just small.


----------



## Tommy C

greenkomodo1 said:


> So I have been through all of these:
> 
> Sony XM3
> Jaybird Vista
> ...


Yeah, had it with my Jabra when I first got them. Was painful I couldn’t press their buttons against my years but it eventually got better and the issue went away after 2 weeks. There was definitely a break-in period for my ears.


----------



## assassin10000

greenkomodo1 said:


> So I have been through all of these:
> 
> Sony XM3
> Jaybird Vista
> ...



Is it the body/housing that hurts in the concha/helix /anti-helix?

Or the tips in your actual ear canal?


----------



## dj24

Looks like the new Earfun Free Pros are the ones to beat according to Bart.  They're basically a souped up version of the Fiil T1 Pros with better bass and great call quality.

https://www.scarbir.com/truewireless


----------



## FYLegend

GeeD said:


> Well I have REALLY gone off these, they add next to nothing over the 1More Stylish, or the Colorbuds (although the Colorbuds don't quite have the same warmth, when you do a back to back comparison).
> 
> Anyway ...wot you said +
> The Left bud battery goes flat when left in the case doing nothing.  The case goes flat when left doing nothing.  The App is horrendously slow to connect, if it connects at all (on iOS). ANC on ... the sound changes to a tin can with no depth to it at all.  Same with ANC Low.  And passthrough ...sorry but I just don't see what the hubbub is all about tbh.
> ...


hmm, I'm not noticing much difference with ANC turned on. Maybe it's just my perception but I'm only hearing a slight bass boost, far less drastic than some other ANC devices I've used.

My left bud seems to still charge, the issue is that sometimes when taking them out of the case, they don't seem to realize it and have either a blue or red light on. Sometimes pressing the button fixes this.

Are yours defaulting to ANC off each time you power them on?


----------



## greenkomodo1

assassin10000 said:


> Is it the body/housing that hurts in the concha/helix /anti-helix?
> 
> Or the tips in your actual ear canal?



Not in the canal, yeah its the outside part of my ear. I guess I have them always jammed in too much?? but then I don't get any seal and they aren't secure in my ear if I leave it loose.


----------



## Leeco (Dec 13, 2020)

greenkomodo1 said:


> I am finding they all hurt the outside of my ear. I used INNAIR foam ear tips as well as trying to the stock ones.
> Anyone had a similar issues with TW earbuds?
> **EDIT**Which headphones don't tend to press against your cartilidge?Perhaps my ears are just small.


For maximum comfort I use "Freebuds 3" from Huawei. While not really available in the States, they have a great reputation for their sound outside US. Because the design is based on the OG Airpods, those are open type with slightly rolled off bass, but mids and highs are of very high quality. On good recordings they sound better than my XM3 (IMHO), but can lack some bass on some of the tracks. And while they do have DD, they kind of sound like BA earphones. You can find them for around $100 US nowdays because they are about 1 year old now, and Huawei just released the "Pro"version, which I didn't like at all (I gave the "Pro" version to my son as an early Christmas present).
Freebuds 3 do sound much better than Samsung Buds Live, and are much more comfortable to me. I liked them so much I actually bought a second pair in "red" a few months ago and they are my main BT earphones while inside a house.


----------



## greenkomodo1 (Dec 13, 2020)

Leeco said:


> For maximum comfort I use "Freebuds 3" from Huawei. While not really available in the States, they have a great reputation for their sound outside US. Because the design is based on the OG Airpods, those are open type with slightly rolled off bass, but mids and highs are of very high quality. On good recordings they sound better than my XM3 (IMHO), but can lack some bass on some of the tracks. And while they do have DD, they kind of sound like BA earphones. You can find them for around $100 US nowdays because they are about 1 year old now, and Huawei just released the "Pro"version, which I didn't like at all (I gave the "Pro" version to my son as an early Christmas present).
> Freebuds 3 do sound much better than Samsung Buds Live, and are much more comfortable to me. I liked them so much I actually bought a second pair in "red" a few months ago and they are my main BT earphones while inside a house.



Thanks I will look into them!

I found this one a site but its not the canal which hurts, just the outside cartilidge on my actual ear.
"For people with small ears, it can often be quite difficult to find a pair of earbuds that fit comfortably, if at all. Many in-ears have fairly large earbuds that push pressure and push on different parts of the ear, causing fatigue and pain over time"

For my budget isn't an issue, just want a dam decent sounding pair of TW earbuds which aren't bright (my ears pain if 4k frequency is high) and have good battery life!


----------



## clerkpalmer

greenkomodo1 said:


> Not in the canal, yeah its the outside part of my ear. I guess I have them always jammed in too much?? but then I don't get any seal and they aren't secure in my ear if I leave it loose.


You could try Bose QC TWS.


----------



## greenkomodo1

clerkpalmer said:


> You could try Bose QC TWS.



Yes but the battery life is trash etc, sucks having to go for crap headphones because my ears are deformed haha.


----------



## clerkpalmer

greenkomodo1 said:


> Yes but the battery life is trash etc, sucks having to go for crap headphones because my ears are deformed haha.


Why are they crap?  The Bose are pretty nice and I'd put them up against your list even without the fit issue. The Bose are super comfy and the ANC addresses the semi open nature of them.  6hrs is generally enough for me for battery. Pretty solid everyday option IMHO.


----------



## clerkpalmer

Earfun Air Pro and FiilCC2 may work for you as well. Scarbir seems to like them and the form factor should help.


----------



## Tommy C

Other than the Sennheiser Momentum 2, Technics AZ70 and possibly Cambridge Audio Melomania 2 when they are available, anything else that is really high quality in terms of sound? Really wanted to get something superb but I may just go with high quality IEMs and a Bluetooth adapter.


----------



## clerkpalmer

Tommy C said:


> Other than the Sennheiser Momentum 2, Technics AZ70 and possibly Cambridge Audio Melomania 2 when they are available, anything else that is really high quality in terms of sound? Really wanted to get something superb but I may just go with high quality IEMs and a Bluetooth adapter.


MW07 Go and Plus. Nuarl N6 Pro. If you go the adapter route you have to make sure you match the IEM properly. If the IEM requires a lot of power, the adapter may fall flat. If the IEM is too efficient you may get some hiss. There is a sweet spot. Also fit can be an issue.


----------



## Tommy C

clerkpalmer said:


> MW07 Go and Plus. Nuarl N6 Pro. If you go the adapter route you have to make sure you match the IEM properly. If the IEM requires a lot of power, the adapter may fall flat. If the IEM is too efficient you may get some hiss. There is a sweet spot. Also fit can be an issue.


 Haven’t thought about the Nuarl N6 Pro but the M&D GO had a slight hiss out of iPhone X which is noticeable in low volume and podcasts


----------



## clerkpalmer

Tommy C said:


> Haven’t thought about the Nuarl N6 Pro but the M&D GO had a slight hiss out of iPhone X which is noticeable in low volume and podcasts


Agree. All of my MW07s had some hiss. I complained about it to them and they offered a return but said they deemed it normal. I got used it.


----------



## clerkpalmer

clerkpalmer said:


> Agree. All of my MW07s had some hiss. I complained about it to them and they offered a return but said they deemed it normal. I got used it.


And the plus and go no longer support AAC so if you are on ios definitely look elsewhere. The Devialet looks interesting. Ships 12/28.


----------



## GeeD

FYLegend said:


> hmm, I'm not noticing much difference with ANC turned on. Maybe it's just my perception but I'm only hearing a slight bass boost, far less drastic than some other ANC devices I've used.
> 
> My left bud seems to still charge, the issue is that sometimes when taking them out of the case, they don't seem to realize it and have either a blue or red light on. Sometimes pressing the button fixes this.
> 
> Are yours defaulting to ANC off each time you power them on?



oh no, it's not just perception  switch ANC on and the volume drops a click or two and the mid and highs take over, even if you increase the volume again.

No, ANC doesn't stay on with mine either.  Pop em in the case, and they go back to normal.


----------



## assassin10000 (Dec 13, 2020)

greenkomodo1 said:


> Not in the canal, yeah its the outside part of my ear. I guess I have them always jammed in too much?? but then I don't get any seal and they aren't secure in my ear if I leave it loose.



Try something on the smaller end of the housing sizes.

Tronsmart Spunky Beats or Onyx
Bomaker Sifi (1st gen)
Maybe the Fiil T1 pro

I found the Galaxy Buds+ fit very well, their unique shape fit my smaller concha fairly well. I used them with no wings, just the smooth band and de-cored APP foam tips.


If you don't mind open or non-isolating, you could try the Sabbat X12 Ultra.


----------



## mattedialdoc

dj24 said:


> Looks like the new Earfun Free Pros are the ones to beat according to Bart.  They're basically a souped up version of the Fiil T1 Pros with better bass and great call quality.
> 
> https://www.scarbir.com/truewireless



just grabbed a pair for $47 on Amazon US


----------



## VICosPhi

Anyone wanting the Bose ANC TWS, they can be had for $229.00 on Nordstrom.com (need to add to cart and login to get this price). That is a $50 discount on fairly new TWS.


----------



## greenkomodo1 (Dec 14, 2020)

I am very grateful for everyone who has replied to me about my search for comfy IEMs, thank you. I bought a Bose pair now and will give them a go. I am still determined to hang onto my Jabra 85t due to sound and general good stuff about them but I notice that they have a really weird oval ear tip, no idea where I can get foams for this in the UK?!!

Furthermore if an ear phone hurts after 1 hour of usage, it's always going to be like huh.


----------



## regancipher

greenkomodo1 said:


> I am very grateful for everyone who has replied to me about my search for comfy IEMs, thank you. I bought a Bose pair now and will give them a go. I am still determined to hang onto my Jabra 85t due to sound and general good stuff about them but I notice that they have a really weird oval ear tip, no idea where I can get foams for this in the UK?!!
> 
> Furthermore if an ear phone hurts after 1 hour of usage, it's always going to be like huh.



ikko i-planet on amazon seemed to fit my oval driver housing buds


----------



## greenkomodo1

regancipher said:


> ikko i-planet on amazon seemed to fit my oval driver housing buds



Hmm not sure how that stays on.


----------



## clerkpalmer

VICosPhi said:


> Anyone wanting the Bose ANC TWS, they can be had for $229.00 on Nordstrom.com (need to add to cart and login to get this price). That is a $50 discount on fairly new TWS.


Pretty good deal there.


----------



## HiFlight

Just received my Devialet Gemini's this morning.  First impressions are very positive as the packaging and phones themselves appear to be of very high quality.  As per the recommendations suggested in a pre-delivery email, I updated the firmware.  Both initial pairing and the subsequent update went smoothly.  I found the noise cancelling to be very effective and the test for optimum fitment went well after I repositioned one side a bit.

They fit my ears beautifully and best of all, the nozzles are of a size to permit the use of about any tips, plus there is plenty of room in the charging case for nearly any imaginable size tips to fit.

The app allows for a number of customizations including custom EQs and a number of selectable presets.  The touchpads do not require a press, just a moderate touch.  

Ultimately, the final measure of flagship quality is the SQ and so far I can say that the Gemini sound better to me than any of my previous TWS phones regardless of cost.  Soundstage is quite expansive and tonality seems to be spot-on for me using the default setting.  

I do need to conduct further testing to establish the bluetooth parameters and further evaluate the sonic performance of different genre's using a number of my test tracks.  

The only negative I have found so far (which might be a deal-breaker for some) is that there is no volume control capability via touch buttons, rather volume must be controlled via your Bluetooth source.

I will post any additional comments as I conduct further testing.  
BTW, the Gemini is covered by a 2-year warranty.


----------



## clerkpalmer

HiFlight said:


> Just received my Devialet Gemini's this morning.  First impressions are very positive as the packaging and phones themselves appear to be of very high quality.  As per the recommendations suggested in a pre-delivery email, I updated the firmware.  Both initial pairing and the subsequent update went smoothly.  I found the noise cancelling to be very effective and the test for optimum fitment went well after I repositioned one side a bit.
> 
> They fit my ears beautifully and best of all, the nozzles are of a size to permit the use of about any tips, plus there is plenty of room in the charging case for nearly any imaginable size tips to fit.
> 
> ...


Thanks. I am tempted. Which tws have you owned to date?


----------



## dj24 (Dec 14, 2020)

clerkpalmer said:


> Thanks. I am tempted. Which tws have you owned to date?



Let us know what you think once you audition them.


----------



## jlo mein

Just ordered the Bomaker Sifi 2 off Amazon.ca for $25 ($20USD).  I hope they can get somewhat close to the sound of my beloved first gen Bomaker Sifi, which I'm worried will fail one day after all my abuse.


----------



## FYLegend (Dec 15, 2020)

GeeD said:


> oh no, it's not just perception  switch ANC on and the volume drops a click or two and the mid and highs take over, even if you increase the volume again.
> 
> No, ANC doesn't stay on with mine either.  Pop em in the case, and they go back to normal.


I think a seal/mic resonance might be part of the problem though. When I fiddle with the seal I can hear the tuning become too boomy temporarily until they are settled down. The overall sounds reminds me of the 1More Triple driver and like those they have great detail retrieval but are very unforgiving of "poorly" mastered tracks. Even songs that have a mild intentionally added vinyl crackle sound scratchy on them.

Not sure if it's just my ears, but I also think the left side has more treble than the right in some situations. I've had this issue with many other TWS, some worse than others. The left bud also has slightly more hiss than the right but it is quite faint, except when I turn on ambient mode it seems to have a slight buzzing sound.

Yeah I wish they had your last ANC setting by default and also not have to cycle through all the modes. Don't know if we'll be getting anymore firmware updates. Are yours manufactured after June 2020? Mine was April 2020 but came with the THX/QuietMax update. 1More was assuring people that if they have the latest firmware all is good, but some users were stilll skeptical of it and think some earlier units support the firmware but have inferior hardware.

EDIT: I removed eartips and earhooks a few times and now the right earbud has some clickiness to the housing when I mount them and occasionally when I yawn. Seems like the seams are not very well glued together...


----------



## Tommy C

Anyone tried these?
https://cleartunemonitors.com/product_detail/367/Explore-P2/

CTM makes quality stuff but I’m guessing no app and limited functionality as a result.  Price is right though IF they sound good.


----------



## HiFlight

clerkpalmer said:


> Thanks. I am tempted. Which tws have you owned to date?


Jabra 65t, 75t, Libratone Track Air+, Creative Outlier Air, Mifo 05, Shanling MTW100 (BA), B7, Back Bay Duet, Bomaker SiFi, Fiil T1X, EOZ Air, Liberty Air Pro, Mavin Air-X, TRN BT20S, Cleer Goal, plus several other forgettables.


----------



## NWISE

I'm a newbie and have been using MTW1 for over a year now. I also have 65t and Samsung Buds Live in the true wireless category. I love the sound of Buds Live (I used to like MTW1 before I got the Buds Live). Can anyone tell me how you would describe the sound of the Buds Live with equalizer in the "Clear" setting? It will help me identify what my sound preference is. TIA.


----------



## dj24

'Just ordered the galaxy buds+ because someone mentioned a few pages back that they had the best call quality of any TWS out there.. I hope they'll live up to those lofty claims 😏


----------



## greenkomodo1 (Dec 15, 2020)

Got the Bose QC today, they sound overall like it's underwater and not as high quality at all has all it's competitors I listed earlier. Also a tad bright. These fin things are kind of annoying are digging into my earr but no immediate discomfort with the smallest size ones. I bought some INAIR foams tip for them and removed the fins but yeah that was awful idea, just having the bud on doesn't work you get raw plastic in your ear. I wonder if anyone had some other eartips for this? Anyway will wear them for a whilst and see if I can get used to the sound. The fit may be more comfy. Still open to anymore suggestions. Listening to some guitar solos now and the high pitched stuff sounds pretty harsh at times. Seems like this forum hasn't got a thread for these? :-S


----------



## Live with Sound

How are the chifi TWS coming along? They've been dominating iems for the last 5 years, but YouTube doesn't seem to be covering them much. Shame. Looking for something in the 200-300 region.


----------



## Luchyres

I'd just like to re-share the TWS @hifi80sman (IIRC) turned me on to - the JBL Club Pro + ANC. For me, they were just very clean sounding out of the box, but they EQ extremely well, and I have adjusted mine to have the bassy spaciousness I like in a headphone. (Super treble sensitive) 

I would encourage you @greenkomodo1 to give them a shot if they fit your ears well. My previous favorite were the Nuarl N6 (non pro).


----------



## greenkomodo1

Luchyres said:


> I'd just like to re-share the TWS @hifi80sman (IIRC) turned me on to - the JBL Club Pro + ANC. For me, they were just very clean sounding out of the box, but they EQ extremely well, and I have adjusted mine to have the bassy spaciousness I like in a headphone. (Super treble sensitive)
> 
> I would encourage you @greenkomodo1 to give them a shot if they fit your ears well. My previous favorite were the Nuarl N6 (non pro).



Many thanks!! I have been abusing Amazon's return policy to the max in my headphone search but those JBL' aren't sold on Amazon UK or barely on eBay. Anyway shall keep an eye. Cheers.


----------



## dasadab

HiFlight said:


> I will post any additional comments as I conduct further testing.
> BTW, the Gemini is covered by a 2-year warranty.


Looking forward to your further comments.  I see that Best Buy is carrying these with about a 2 week delay.  Did you buy yours directly from the company?


----------



## Tommy C

Live with Sound said:


> How are the chifi TWS coming along? They've been dominating iems for the last 5 years, but YouTube doesn't seem to be covering them much. Shame. Looking for something in the 200-300 region.



Problem with ChiFi and especially with TWS is that the majority is just garbage in terms of sound quality and connectivity. Rebranding all over the place, no support etc. so many people are more comfortable purchasing a known commodity even if it’s a little more expensive expensive. 
Many ChiFi products feel like it’s a classic attempt to throw it against the wall to see what sticks.


----------



## regancipher

Tommy C said:


> Problem with ChiFi and especially with TWS is that the majority is just garbage in terms of sound quality and connectivity. Rebranding all over the place, no support etc. so many people are more comfortable purchasing a known commodity even if it’s a little more expensive expensive.
> Many ChiFi products feel like it’s a classic attempt to throw it against the wall to see what sticks.



Some classic examples are KZ and TaoTronics.

KZ are hit and miss in the IEM arena anyway but are trying to shoe-horn their offering into wireless, forgetting to sort out the basics like ergonomics, battery life and connectivity. The SA08 sound fantastic but feel like lego in your ear - think your average IEM and add a another 0.5cm to the depth, feature repeated periodic dropouts and last about 2 hours.

TaoTronics have no less than 3 stem-based semi-in-ear earbuds, the 95's, which sound rubbish but have good mics, the 92's, which are OK but no aptx and loose fitting, and the 88's which are probably the pick of the bunch, sound nothing like the other two, but suffer from dropouts in audio and calls.

So yeah, a real mixed bag. The only two that seem to be getting their act together are Tronsmart and Soundpeats. Even FIIL and Edifier seem to be more interested in OEM'ing for Earfun.


----------



## Thesonofkrypton

Have more people got the TrueControl ANC yet? Looking for some fit and sound impressions before pulling the trigger.


----------



## HiFlight (Dec 15, 2020)

dasadab said:


> Looking forward to your further comments.  I see that Best Buy is carrying these with about a 2 week delay.  Did you buy yours directly from the company?


Yes, I bought them directly from the company.  After more listening, I am even more impressed.  They sound less like phones and more like a high-end near-field speaker system with a well implemented sub.  Very spacious and immersive soundstage with precise imaging.  So far I have had no connectivity issues and the ANC is very effective.  Fit is also superb, actually seeming to disappear after a short time in my ears.  IMO, they are a truly TOTL product!


----------



## dj24

Luchyres said:


> I'd just like to re-share the TWS @hifi80sman (IIRC) turned me on to - the JBL Club Pro + ANC. For me, they were just very clean sounding out of the box, but they EQ extremely well, and I have adjusted mine to have the bassy spaciousness I like in a headphone. (Super treble sensitive)
> 
> I would encourage you @greenkomodo1 to give them a shot if they fit your ears well. My previous favorite were the Nuarl N6 (non pro).




How's the call quality on these?


----------



## Luchyres

dj24 said:


> How's the call quality on these?



Call quality is good - I use them for calls pretty regularly, though they're not as good at the Jabra 75t for blocking out wind noise/ambient noise for your caller. Also, no multipoint.


----------



## erockg

Thesonofkrypton said:


> Have more people got the TrueControl ANC yet? Looking for some fit and sound impressions before pulling the trigger.


They're enroute to me now.  Found a coupon that took $75 off so I took a chance.  I'll post more when I receive them.


----------



## Thesonofkrypton

erockg said:


> They're enroute to me now.  Found a coupon that took $75 off so I took a chance.  I'll post more when I receive them.



Keep us all posted! Thanks. Most likely will pick up the Cambridge Audio Melomania Touch before I get the RHAs


----------



## erockg

Thesonofkrypton said:


> Keep us all posted! Thanks. Most likely will pick up the Cambridge Audio Melomania Touch before I get the RHAs


Knowing my addiction, those will end up in my hands as well


----------



## jant71

Noble Falcon Pro slated to drop 12/26...




https://www.nobleaudio.com/wireless/p/falcon-pro

Gamesky vid on the Sonic...


----------



## martiniCZ

Today I received the Fiil T1 Lite, undoubtedly the new king of budget segment TWS. If you don't need ANC, It's hard to compete with them for only $ 35. Fortunately, Fiil didn't cheat the sound quality in Lite, only the EQ setting options are more modest. Lite still have a clear and balanced sound with a default EQ, but at the same time they give in perfectly to equalization. They definitely do not sound boring and are pleasant to listen to in almost any genre. The stability of the connection is excellent, I had to get used to a slightly strange extended control scheme for a while. Apart from the Chinese announcements and the lack of support in global applications, it is really difficult to find any shortcomings or limitations in terms of it's price, I really like them.


----------



## erockg

For those who do not like spending a lot on their TWS, despite their flaws, this is a sick price for the first gen Sennheiser MTW:  https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B...2777eba4bb8dbe80INT&smid=A1LB96JB6YYZ02&psc=1


----------



## jasonb

So I know the AirPods Pro don’t get talked about much in here, but I just got an IPhone 12 Mini and some AirPods Pro yesterday and with the Headphone Accommodations on and set to “balanced tone” they sound very good. The overall balance is very good. The ANC is very good, and so far the transparency mode seems good as well. I’m liking them so far.


----------



## FYLegend (Dec 17, 2020)

Just received the Earfun Free Pro today. I'm not sure why people are underwhelmed by its ANC, it does very well drowning out my space heater and on a few noise tests on YouTube. I would put the ANC above the 1More ANC and Anker Soundcore Life Q30 over-ears. However, it does have a higher noise floor hiss than the 1More ANC, and this hiss is slightly panned to the left side. Ambient Sound mode is poor - it is rather faint like the 1More but distorts badly with "loud" sounds such as playing the piano.

First audio impressions are pretty good, V-shaped with deep thick bass and good treble clarity. In terms of resolution it sits nicely between the Galaxy Buds+ (which is brighter but also more splashy) and 1More ANC (detailed to the point of being unforgiving of lower quality tracks) and has a larger soundstaging than either of them. I'm not sure about the SBC bitpool though as someone here mentioned the F1 Pro having a lowered bitpool than Windows 10's defaults. However, it seems to me that the treble is more splashy with SBC than AAC but not distorted like the Galaxy Buds+.

I do have a bit of sealing issues with the left earbud, and every time I take them out the eartip flange gets flipped. It _may_ be giving me slightly more bass though this may reflect my natural hearing. I rarely notice over-ear headphones having channel imbalance, so I suspect the resonance effect on in-ears may be having an effect.

EDIT: Here are bitpool values for the Earfun Free Pro, 8..53, pretty good but it seems like the highs are brighter/more sibilant than AAC


----------



## jlcsoft (Dec 18, 2020)

martiniCZ said:


> Today I received the Fiil T1 Lite, undoubtedly the new king of budget segment TWS. If you don't need ANC, It's hard to compete with them for only $ 35. Fortunately, Fiil didn't cheat the sound quality in Lite, only the EQ setting options are more modest. Lite still have a clear and balanced sound with a default EQ, but at the same time they give in perfectly to equalization. They definitely do not sound boring and are pleasant to listen to in almost any genre. The stability of the connection is excellent, I had to get used to a slightly strange extended control scheme for a while. Apart from the Chinese announcements and the lack of support in global applications, it is really difficult to find any shortcomings or limitations in terms of it's price, I really like them.



Dou you prefer your new Fiil T1 lite to yor edifier X3?. I also have the x3, but my favorite one is the tranya  t3. I would like to try a FIIL, but I am  I am doubting between the lite and the pro.


----------



## greenkomodo1

One thing I'm confused about TW earphones. If they come with an app and you equalise them. Does that setting get saved so when you connect to them another device like a PC it savings that equalisation on the ear buds or its just a device only thing?


----------



## Kressel

Received my Cambridge Audio Melomania 1 last week and im happy. Packaging is clever, eco-friendly and the earbuds feels light and PREMIUM. Im from Canada.

I've tried the Mifo O5 Plus dynamics: great sound a bit too mid happy and bass heavy, great battery, but poor bluetooth integration. The Melomania are my third bluetooth earphone and the same price as the Mifo O5. The Melomania are FAR SUPERIOR with better natural mid and soundstage. Im in other league.

First I was using stock silicone tips and the small foam stock foam tips, shove it very far in my ear canal. No discomfort and great isolation: my ears are made for this size I guess... But I was having the biggest bass borderline too much. It even affected the highs. So I was tip rolling with a lot of different tips from my collection. It was difficult due to the very big nozzle size. But still, too much bass.

For my ears, NOW I'm using the bigger foam tips that came with the package. It helps keep the earbud not too far inside my ear. The key here is to get the earphone not too far (too much bass, no highs) or too near (too much mid, no bass) *You shouldn't get the earphone passed too much the silver ring to get the best balanced sound*.

So if it help someone getting the best of those fantastic earbuds, please experiment with how you get them in your ear. Other third party ear tips can help, like the Comply T500 or the Spinfit CP155. But it can be tricky to get them in the case.


----------



## martiniCZ (Dec 17, 2020)

jlcsoft said:


> Dou you prefer your new Fiil T1 lite to yor edifier X3?. I also have the x3, but my favorite one is the tranya  t3. I would lij to try a FIIL, but I am  I am doubting between the lite and the pro.


T1 Lite is a completely different level in terms of sound, it is significantly more balanced and fuller. I had to get used to the Edifier X3 for a long time and only recently did I find eartips that I am happy with.
But ...
unfortunately, I found out this morning that they sent me a scum, the earphones are not charging at all in the case. After the first day, they discharged and can no longer be turned on, so I only have a pile of plastic with the inscription FIIl  At first glance, everything works, the case charges, when the lid is closed, the LED lights up and 5V voltage is on the contacts, but the earphones are dead.
The quality of goods from China has dropped significantly over the last year, it's downright lottery. Not long ago, I had to complain Blon's BL-03, now fill again .
Whatever the outcome of the complaint, I'll probably buy them again anyway, the look and sound suit me on the T1 Lite, I don't want  more from TWS.



greenkomodo1 said:


> One thing I'm confused about TW earphones. If they come with an app and you equalise them. Does that setting get saved so when you connect to them another device like a PC it savings that equalisation on the ear buds or its just a device only thing?


Yes, this is how it works on the Fiil T1 Lite, I set the advanced control and EQ in the application, disconnected them from the phone and connected them to the Shanling M0, and the control and EQ settings remained as I set them. I think it will work on other Fiil models as well.


----------



## dj24

Looks like the new upcoming galaxy buds pros will have an IP68 certification.  If they end up having the great call quality of the Buds live and the Buds+ with their signature sound coupled with ANC, I think they might be my next purchase.


----------



## erockg

Thesonofkrypton said:


> Keep us all posted! Thanks. Most likely will pick up the Cambridge Audio Melomania Touch before I get the RHAs


Got them today.  At first, I thought they sounded awful with the stock tips.  Switched out to a pair of Spinfits and boom, really nice, balanced.  Wish I could EQ them and not be bound to EQ presets.  They don't get super loud, but the fit is quite nice, almost as if you had them fitted.  ANC is light.  Nothing like the MTW2 or APP.  Controls are very sensitive.  Still taking them for a spin.  I don't think they're worth the $299 asking price at all.  If you can get them for the 225 like me, maybe.  Never had a pair of RHA.  Build quality is very nice, case is nice too.  A little big, but around the same size and the MTW2 case, but with wireless charging and more solid.


----------



## myltz400

jasonb said:


> So I know the AirPods Pro don’t get talked about much in here, but I just got an IPhone 12 Mini and some AirPods Pro yesterday and with the Headphone Accommodations on and set to “balanced tone” they sound very good. The overall balance is very good. The ANC is very good, and so far the transparency mode seems good as well. I’m liking them so far.


There is actually a lot of talk about APP.  There are many comparisons that almost make them a reference standard for ANC.  Personally the APPs are one of the few Apple products I really like.  Unfortunately I must be allergic to them...apple is being kind enough to buy them back.


----------



## jasonb

myltz400 said:


> There is actually a lot of talk about APP.  There are many comparisons that almost make them a reference standard for ANC.  Personally the APPs are one of the few Apple products I really like.  Unfortunately I must be allergic to them...apple is being kind enough to buy them back.


It seems like this thread doesn’t mention the APP much. Also got to play around with the spatial audio with some video on Disney+, and Hulu, and that’s really impressive too. I think I can live with just the APP and just use my Elear with Clear pads when I want to be an “audiophile “.


----------



## webvan

Well there was a lot of talk about them last year when they came out, like the MTW 1, MW07, etc..in their day...this is more like a "latest TWEs" thread really. As for their ANC, yes it's "impressive" (big "wow" factor) like on the Bose QC but at the end of the day what matters (apart from some special use cases) is overall isolation and the APPs like the Bose QC or the 85Ts have poor passive isolation compared to the Amazon Echo Buds, MTW 2 or 75Ts, so while these may have less "impressive" ANC they still win for overall isolation.


----------



## FYLegend

Another annoyance about the Earfun Free Pro is you cannot have ambient sound (or ANC) when wearing a single earbud. It reverts to passive isolation after you close the lid with the other bud charging. On Samsung and Jabra, you can still trigger ambient sound if you happen to have the bud with the button that activates it. On the 1More ANC you can't use the ANC controls but you can still at least go into the (SLOW-loading) app to enable it.

I've seen a lot of praise for the Earfun's bass but I feel like it's a little too sticky for a lack of better word. It's not sloppy or loose, but doesn't feel "fast" enough for some songs. Wondering if the T1 Pro is better in that regard. 

Overall it's a great deal for 50$ USD/65$ CAD, so much I'm considering returning the 1Mores (though I can't get past their resolution and having an AptX TWS on Windows 10). I just wished certain things were ironed out.


----------



## Canabuc

FYLegend said:


> Has anyone else had trouble with the left earbud of the 1More ANC not connecting? It has a red or blue light that doesn't change.
> 
> Also find it annoying I can't tweak ANC settings when using a single bud. I'd at least want to use ambient hear-through in these situations without having to go into their cumbersome app. Not only does the app take long to connect to the earbuds (and sometimes fails when music is playing), but my phone also keeps telling me it's draining battery. Finally, it seems you cannot disable auto-pause, only enable auto-pause and resume. I've had some situations where auto-pause is triggered accidentally.


Just got these on a sale on Amazon cost me about 155 Canadian or about 120usd. The sound is very nice but don’t find them loud. Also find the kids a bit recessed. Going to burn them in with the burn in feature in the app before I decide on returning.  Haven’t tried the other tips yet but the stock seemed comfortable.

I am curious as to others opinions of these and the THX tuning.


----------



## Canabuc

FYLegend said:


> Another annoyance about the Earfun Free Pro is you cannot have ambient sound (or ANC) when wearing a single earbud. It reverts to passive isolation after you close the lid with the other bud charging. On Samsung and Jabra, you can still trigger ambient sound if you happen to have the bud with the button that activates it. On the 1More ANC you can't use the ANC controls but you can still at least go into the (SLOW-loading) app to enable it.
> 
> I've seen a lot of praise for the Earfun's bass but I feel like it's a little too sticky for a lack of better word. It's not sloppy or loose, but doesn't feel "fast" enough for some songs. Wondering if the T1 Pro is better in that regard.
> 
> Overall it's a great deal for 50$ USD/65$ CAD, so much I'm considering returning the 1Mores (though I can't get past their resolution and having an AptX TWS on Windows 10). I just wished certain things were ironed out.


Where can you get the ear fun pro in Canada?


----------



## bladefd

Has anyone heard both the Sony WF-1000XM3 and Sennheiser Momentum True wireless? I have Sennheiser cx400bt that use same drivers as the Momentum True wireless. I would be very curious to see how the Momentums sound compared to the Sony, which just dropped in price.


----------



## FYLegend (Dec 24, 2020)

regancipher said:


> You won't get much better than the T1 Pro for all round strength in depth.
> 
> Sound quality is very decent, but after a bit of scrutiny I discovered they have prioritised latency, and to get round the Qualcomm license fee requirement for Aptx, have cut corners - they've only partially implemented AAC-LC, skipping some of the better features that mpeg-4 gives you over mpeg-2 such as SBR, and like Samsung have reduced the bitpool on SBC. Whilst the tuning is pretty good - albeit a tad too V-shaped for my liking - the over compression comes across when songs peak. Don't get me wrong - their tuning alone is better than 95% of other tws out there - but it's worth remembering why they cost what they do and why you can't get a set of momentum for the same price (aside from the obvious sunk costs of doing business)
> 
> ...


I have the Earfun Free Pro, the ANC is very strong in taking out sounds like my space heater (better than other ANC devices I have so far), but not much for something like a car engine. It also seems hit or miss as sometimes it seems less strong than other times (which may be due to having to fiddle with the seal).

The Earfun Free Pro still uses MPEG-2 AAC but SBC bitpool is 8-53. Is it lower on F1 Pro?



Canabuc said:


> Just got these on a sale on Amazon cost me about 155 Canadian or about 120usd. The sound is very nice but don’t find them loud. Also find the kids a bit recessed. Going to burn them in with the burn in feature in the app before I decide on returning.  Haven’t tried the other tips yet but the stock seemed comfortable.
> 
> I am curious as to others opinions of these and the THX tuning.


Oh wow, mine was 167 on Cyber Monday though I also used a gift card I received elsewhere. Were yours made after June 2020?

I find the mids recessed as well, with the upper mid/treble being a tad hot. There's this metallic texture to the treble that's hard to describe, the 1More Triple Drivers had a similar tonality. The ANC isn't as good for cutting out certain sounds like the Earfun Free Pro but feels smoother and less hissy, though it suffers from some EMI sounds as well.

Battery life isn't getting me through more than 2 days if I'm using ANC often. I feel like these are more like earbuds _with_ ANC rather than ANC being a key feature, considering they don't even remember your ANC setting when powering them on. When the case is depleted, the earbuds won't suddenly power on like the TaoTronics 94, but you'll have to manually power them on and off. Because it relies on proximity sensors rather than charging contacts, so far the Samsung Galaxy Buds+ is the only TWS I have which is capable of powering off in a completely depleted case. The drawback is I can't do something as silly as wear an ANC over-ear headphone over the Buds+.



Canabuc said:


> Where can you get the ear fun pro in Canada?


I purchased them from Earfun's official site. Took 3 weeks to receive them, presumably from China but the tracking info just said it went through Mississauga before arriving at Vancouver via Canada Post. I don't know what's hard about getting them shipped from the States vs overseas. I'm told they ship every Wednesday - I had missed the first Wednesday so it got pushed back 1 more week, so it should only take 2 weeks.  You might be able to get them through Amazon.com with import fees, and it's now giving me an estimated arrival of Jan 1-19.


----------



## Canabuc

FYLegend said:


> I have the Earfun Free Pro, the ANC is very strong in taking out sounds like my space heater (better than other ANC devices I have so far), but not much for something like a car engine. It also seems hit or miss as sometimes it seems less strong than other times (which may be due to having to fiddle with the seal).
> 
> The Earfun Free Pro still uses MPEG-2 AAC but SBC bitpool is 8-53. Is it lower on F1 Pro?
> 
> ...



Yes these are July build date. THX even mentioned on the shrink wrap of the package.

Burning in the 1 more a bit and the sound is starting to be real enjoyable. Treble much less harsh than my bud+or my L2P.
Bass is somewhere between the 2. Miss are a bit more recessed then the Samsung but the vocals feel more textured and less worry.
Soundstage feels wider too.
At 155$ Canadian and a multipurpose usb cable with 12$as a free as in from Amazon I think I might just keep these.

Was wrong about the volume. Is as loud as my Gbuds+ just different. The low end is fuller but the tenor not being as sharp make it sound like it's not as loud.

Is there a reason more people don't talk about these in this thread?

It checks all the boxes...
High quality ANC.
Aptx which seems like it's in fee earbuds than ever.
Single bud use.
Usb c and wireless charging case.
A great tuned sound which is great for all genres but still has plenty of Bass.
Great fit with multiple ear tips and comfortable.
Reasonable price. I got them for $155 CDN or 118$USD new on Amazon. This was less then I opposite for either of my other yes.

Only cons so far are:
App doesn't have is own equalization though this is THX certified so equalizing might not allow them to.

Battery life seems mediocre but I've never had ANC buds before and none are as good as my Gbuds+it L2P. From reviews these are in part with the APP and not far behind the Sony.


----------



## regancipher

Selling my Edifier TWS NB2 in the sales section if anyone is interest, barely used and tips are fresh (I use my own)

If anyone would be interested in buying the Whizzer E3, Boya BY-AP4 or KZ SA08, happy to create a listing for those too


----------



## webvan

85t analytical review available on Rtings https://www.rtings.com/headphones/reviews/jabra/elite-85t-truly-wireless#page-test-results
They were extremely impressed and found that isolation wasn't great, although surprisingly they do better in the highs than the bass, which is not what you'd expect from the semi-open + ANC combo as they generally have poor isolation for the highs whicl the ANC able to take care of the low droning sounds.


----------



## SaveTheMantaRays

Just got in the Ultimate Ears UE Fits!!!!!
First impressions, wow whole new unboxing experience, and setup. Nothing exactly like it
Getting the ear tips to mold to your ears is odd but fun.  The isolation is fantastic. Told someone to yell at me and I could hear nothing. No noise cancelling needed.
The app is easy, fast and helpful.  Connection was instant with Samsung S20 FE.
So far the sound is great. Lots of EQ features and your can customize the tap features on the buds.

If these were more affordable I would instantly recommend them to all.  I am really enjoying them. Will post more impressions after I spend more time with the buds.
Will also need to study more listening to make sure I got a proper fit the first go around.

Exciting first listen!!!!!


----------



## quixfz2 (Dec 18, 2020)

the fiil t1 pro arrived a few days ago and i'm loving them. great fit and great neutral sound. the problem is they like to slowly slide out of my ears, and lose the seal... memory foam tips helped a bit, but are a bit difficult to get into the ears, and stick out slightly when in the charger.
being used to and loving the flange tips on my se846, i tried some  (aliexpress) and they are perfect now but don't fit in the charging case anymore. so i decided to mod the case. the cups for the earbuds is clipped into the outer case and can be carefully taken out. i saw that there is no pcb where i wanted to cut the hole, so i got the dremel and did it. will maybe 3d print and glue some covers to the outside later to keep the dust out.
very happy now!!! much better then the sennheiser mtw1 (i had for a few weeks) in every respect imo


----------



## tma6

webvan said:


> 85t analytical review available on Rtings https://www.rtings.com/headphones/reviews/jabra/elite-85t-truly-wireless#page-test-results
> They were extremely impressed and found that isolation wasn't great, although surprisingly they do better in the highs than the bass, which is not what you'd expect from the semi-open + ANC combo as they generally have poor isolation for the highs whicl the ANC able to take care of the low droning sounds.



The 85ts are my favorite TWS to date


----------



## kolbo (Dec 18, 2020)

tma6 said:


> The 85ts are my favorite TWS to date


What have you tried?
I have the APP (great comfort though can’t keep them in, not great sound for me). Bose QC earbuds (great anc, good sound, hurt my ears no matter what I do).
I’m looking for anc, good comfort and good sound. My non-tws are CA andromeda. I’m looking for a lot of clarity. Do not need very powerful bass.


----------



## bladefd

I keep running across the Nuarl 6 pros and M&D MW07 Go, but what pushes me away is a lack of app for both. I would be very curious to compare them to the Sennheiser cx400bt/MTW2 and Technics AZ70, which I liked both a lot. I don't understand why they didn't invest anything into an app.. Bit disappointing.

Well, I have 1 and half week to keep or return the Senns. I'm still driving myself crazy searching for other earbuds to try for under $200. Anything else with super sound quality worth trying/comparing?


----------



## jant71

bladefd said:


> I keep running across the Nuarl 6 pros and M&D MW07 Go, but what pushes me away is a lack of app for both. I would be very curious to compare them to the Sennheiser cx400bt/MTW2 and Technics AZ70, which I liked both a lot. I don't understand why they didn't invest anything into an app.. Bit disappointing.
> 
> Well, I have 1 and half week to keep or return the Senns. I'm still driving myself crazy searching for other earbuds to try for under $200. Anything else with super sound quality worth trying/comparing?



Is there anything with "super" sound quality yet. Getting quite good but nothing that qualifies as super exists.


----------



## bladefd

jant71 said:


> Is there anything with "super" sound quality yet. Getting quite good but nothing that qualifies as super exists.



That's true lol. I just mean something with excellent sound


----------



## Tommy C (Dec 18, 2020)

bladefd said:


> I keep running across the Nuarl 6 pros and M&D MW07 Go, but what pushes me away is a lack of app for both. I would be very curious to compare them to the Sennheiser cx400bt/MTW2 and Technics AZ70, which I liked both a lot. I don't understand why they didn't invest anything into an app.. Bit disappointing.
> 
> Well, I have 1 and half week to keep or return the Senns. I'm still driving myself crazy searching for other earbuds to try for under $200. Anything else with super sound quality worth trying/comparing?



Lack of available app is a bummer. 
Technics AZ70 gets very good reviews here and comes with a solid app and ANC. Panasonic pulled it off quite well. They also have the cheaper version under the the Panasonic brand, also with app and ANC but smaller driver.  My colleague bought a pair and is very happy.


----------



## tma6

kolbo said:


> What have you tried?
> I have the APP (great comfort though can’t keep them in, not great sound for me). Bose QC earbuds (great anc, good sound, hurt my ears no matter what I do).
> I’m looking for anc, good comfort and good sound. My non-tws are CA andromeda. I’m looking for a lot of clarity. Do not need very powerful bass.



Tried most of the stuff out there . Haven’t tried the Bose QC. APPs are a very solid product, but 85ts have better sound, better battery, better anc. APPs better call quality. 85ts are excellent imo.


----------



## Laethageal

jant71 said:


> Is there anything with "super" sound quality yet. Getting quite good but nothing that qualifies as super exists.


The only comment I read about the new Gemini might out them as potential candidate for this title.


----------



## kolbo

tma6 said:


> Tried most of the stuff out there . Haven’t tried the Bose QC. APPs are a very solid product, but 85ts have better sound, better battery, better anc. APPs better call quality. 85ts are excellent imo.


Thanks. 
I'm worried about the buds staying in - I could not get the APP to do that even with several types of tips. The Bose stay out but really hurt after about an hour. 
If you tried both the 85t and the mtw2 what do you think about fit and comfort?


----------



## Canabuc

Would love to hear more opinions on the 1more ANC TWS.
Those who bought and returned what didn't you like and was it the newer THX updated model? If you kept them tell me what you like dislike. Had mine 1 day haven't had time to play with all the time yet but am warning to the soundc which is definitely warmer than my GBUDS +


----------



## blomman77

That,or you could of bought azla sednaearfit xelastec tips. They fit in the case and the PRO sits





quixfz2 said:


> the fiil t1 pro arrived a few days ago and i'm loving them. great fit and great neutral sound. the problem is they like to slowly slide out of my ears, and lose the seal... memory foam tips helped a bit, but are a bit difficult to get into the ears, and stick out slightly when in the charger.
> being used to and loving the flange tips on my se846, i tried some  (aliexpress) and they are perfect now but don't fit in the charging case anymore. so i decided to mod the case. the cups for the earbuds is clipped into the outer case and can be carefully taken out. i saw that there is no pcb where i wanted to cut the hole, so i got the dremel and did it. will maybe 3d print and glue some covers to the outside later to keep the dust out.
> very happy now!!! much better then the sennheiser mtw1 (i had for a few weeks) in every respect imo


 like glued in the ears. the xelastec is a bit pricey tho.


----------



## nettuno65

bladefd said:


> Has anyone heard both the Sony WF-1000XM3 and Sennheiser Momentum True wireless? I have Sennheiser cx400bt that use same drivers as the Momentum True wireless. I would be very curious to see how the Momentums sound compared to the Sony, which just dropped in price.



I had them both in a/b comparison
I'm a classical musician and I definitely prefer the Sony, bigger soundstage, better details and more realistic instruments timbre
In terms of sound quality If you listen to classical and acoustic jazz you can't go wrong with the Sony


----------



## bladefd

nettuno65 said:


> I had them both in a/b comparison
> I'm a classical musician and I definitely prefer the Sony, bigger soundstage, better details and more realistic instruments timbre
> In terms of sound quality If you listen to classical and acoustic jazz you can't go wrong with the Sony



Interesting that you say that. I do listen to classical along with rock, pop (vocals). I considered trying the Sony, still thinking about it. Only thing pushing me away is the size of the earbuds as they jut out, but I feel it might be worth trying


----------



## GeeD (Dec 19, 2020)

Canabuc said:


> Would love to hear more opinions on the 1more ANC TWS.
> Those who bought and returned what didn't you like and was it the newer THX updated model? If you kept them tell me what you like dislike. Had mine 1 day haven't had time to play with all the time yet but am warning to the soundc which is definitely warmer than my GBUDS +



THX is just a firmware update ...mine are one of the very first and it says THX after the update to 3.62

I wouldn't recommend them to anyone, they seem to be hit or miss, mine are decidedly miss ...I should have left them on the very old original firmware ...they were perfect then.  So something is decidedly variable??

EDIT, I got them off AliEx from 1More a touch before the official release, or they would have been back to Amazon long ago


----------



## Canabuc

GeeD said:


> THX is just a firmware update ...mine are one of the very first and it says THX after the update to 3.62
> 
> I wouldn't recommend them to anyone, they seem to be hit or miss, mine are decidedly miss ...I should have left them on the very old original firmware ...they were perfect then.  So something is decidedly variable??
> 
> EDIT, I got them off AliEx from 1More a touch before the official release, or they would have been back to Amazon long ago


So what didn't you like? I read the firmware was one change but on the website they also mentioned a build date after June being part of the requirements. I wonder if there was a hardware revision as well?


----------



## Caipirina

Canabuc said:


> Would love to hear more opinions on the 1more ANC TWS.
> Those who bought and returned what didn't you like and was it the newer THX updated model? If you kept them tell me what you like dislike. Had mine 1 day haven't had time to play with all the time yet but am warning to the soundc which is definitely warmer than my GBUDS +


I like mine, they are pre-fancy schmanzy upgrades ... and they were stuck super long in covid mail .. like, ordered in Feb, received in September ...  anyways, I do enjoy mine, BUT, turning on the ANC surely changes the soundsig .. feels like a bassboost ... or what we used to have in the olden days on our stereos, the 'loudness' button  .. still, liking it. What I do NOT like is that I seem to have an ever so slight interference sound on the left side when I turn ANC on ... can be ignored with music on, but can also be annoying in more silent passages ...


----------



## Caipirina

I see there is a bit refreshed talk about the APP ... let me share my 2 cents ... I love those, the ANC is fantastic and how they work within the Apple ecosystem is incredible  ... nowadays (i think thanks to OS upgrades) it seems to be seamlessly switching between my apple devices! 
That being said, I find the soundsig too 'safe', too average ... too 'make everyone happy' ... 

The Galaxy Buds Live on the other hand, they have a musical dynamic that makes me smile! and that's coming from an Apple fanboy!
I like those beans so much that I have forgiven them for dying early (right side, most likely sweat, Samsung does not sell single replacement and because of location issues I cannot invoke warranty ... ) and went ahead and bought a new pair ... (partial reason also that I can't really get anything else in my location and the GBL happen to be at a non totally crazy inflated import tax price point) .. and I am still very happy with them. The ANC is a different kind of class ... its more like 'drown out just the low rumbles' ... now when I am walking around town I can still hear all the cars, but they all sound like whispering hybrids


----------



## webvan

I was pretty happy with the Bomaker SiFi II thanks to their stellar passive isolation that's great for riding on my home trainer but I'm noticing some annoying driver flex in the left ear now, anyone else have that ?


----------



## Canabuc

Caipirina said:


> I like mine, they are pre-fancy schmanzy upgrades ... and they were stuck super long in covid mail .. like, ordered in Feb, received in September ...  anyways, I do enjoy mine, BUT, turning on the ANC surely changes the soundsig .. feels like a bassboost ... or what we used to have in the olden days on our stereos, the 'loudness' button  .. still, liking it. What I do NOT like is that I seem to have an ever so slight interference sound on the left side when I turn ANC on ... can be ignored with music on, but can also be annoying in more silent passages ...


Are you on newer firmware? The initial firmware there was a difference in sound with ANCon like a bass boost. Since newer firmware there is almost no sound signature difference.


----------



## Canabuc

https://www.soundandvision.com/content/face-noise-canceling-true-wireless-earbuds.

Not a newer article but seems to have most of the popular better TWS and I used to use their articles for much of my home theater audio decisions.


----------



## dj24 (Dec 19, 2020)

I'm having problems charging my new Galaxy Buds+.  This is right out of the box.  Charging them for almost 3 hours, the light from the charging case is green which means it's good but the light inside the case which indicates the charge for the buds themselves is still red.  Do I have a defective set?  I have yet to turn them on and try them and I'm wondering if I have to send them right back to Samsung 

Edit:  Sheesh.  Never mind. Literally one minute after posting this it turned green


----------



## dweaver (Dec 19, 2020)

I have to admit if I could afford to buy the WF1000XM3 I would, just to see what the difference is between them and the AZ70. It helps that they are sale for $199CAD. But I just can't afford them. But I am tempted anyway lol.

The AZ70 have ruined my listening to the XB700 though, the bass in particular is just to thick on the XB700 after getting used to the AZ70. I put on the L2P and they sounded better than the XB700 but have a bit of hotness to the treble that bothers me a bit though.

I can now see my mistake thinking the firmware update of the AZ70 changed the signature. It wasn't the IEM that changed, it was me . I have a feeling anyone who has a few TWS models might need to use the AZ70 exclusively for a while because your brain and ears need to get attuned to it because of how different it is compared to vast majority of products.

@bladefd you might want to try the cheaper Panasonic ANC model. From what I read it has a more traditional signature so it might actually sound better than AZ70 to your ears. Or just go try the WF1000XM3 as I am sure they will sound good too. Like I say, I am tempted by their drop in price too.


----------



## Onurb8690

Hello guys, I'm not very informed in wireless ears, however which are the best on the market?


----------



## GeeD

Canabuc said:


> So what didn't you like? I read the firmware was one change but on the website they also mentioned a build date after June being part of the requirements. I wonder if there was a hardware revision as well?



Switch ANC on and they sound sounds like a tin can.  Well mine do anyway, but mine sounded perfect on the original 3.19, no change to sound signature AT ALL between ANC on and off ...when the YouTube fans were saying it added bass.  Without ANC the 1More Stylish are pretty much the same, almost indistinguishable.  I use the Stylish pretty much all the time.

...but your set might be better.

When I asked 1More in China, they said there was no hardware revision, and my set say THX (I read the blurb but still don't see it offering any benefit other than marketing BS)


----------



## GeeD

Canabuc said:


> Are you on newer firmware? The initial firmware there was a difference in sound with ANCon like a bass boost. Since newer firmware there is almost no sound signature difference.



there must be a variation somewhere because mine were perfect on 3.19 ...no loudness effect at all ...stayed just exactly the same.  Now on 3.62 (THX) put ANC on and it is as iff someone switched the Loudness off.


----------



## FYLegend (Dec 19, 2020)

Canabuc said:


> Yes these are July build date. THX even mentioned on the shrink wrap of the package.
> 
> Burning in the 1 more a bit and the sound is starting to be real enjoyable. Treble much less harsh than my bud+or my L2P.
> Bass is somewhere between the 2. Miss are a bit more recessed then the Samsung but the vocals feel more textured and less worry.
> ...


Mine are April but came with the THX firmware. 1More has been telling users not to worry about the build date as long as they are on the latest firmware, but many still have doubts about that they have commented that the ANC is mediocre (there's a few impressions on this thread back in September but not sure if anyone was able to compare units old and new). Either users are having different impressions of ANC or there is a difference between hardware before and after June 2020. I don't have much to compare for ANC, but I don't find it particularly strong. I think one point of Quietmax was to relieve the in-ear pressure more than actually cut out noise. The 1More doesn't block out more sounds than the Earfun Free Pro but seems "smoother" and easier in my ear. For indoor sounds the Earfun Free pros do very well cutting out a space heater but they are quite for commuting.

As for EQ, after playing around with Wavelet I have a feeling these don't respond well to EQ which may be due to the BA drivers, unless someone is able to get around clipping. If this did have an EQ then it would probably need to adaptively adjust the volume to prevent clipping.

The only concern I have with the sound right now is that I get a hunch that the left bud has more treble in some situations. I'm not sure if this is a seal or driver issue, but I've encountered it previously with many TWS and thought I received duds (this was true for the Sabbat E12 Ultra, as my friend received one that sounded fine). Each time I play and pause I can hear the audio pan side to side before settling.  With over-ear headphones, I don't usually hear an imbalance like this so it could be more an issue with in-ear resonance. Ill need to do more testing but it seems if I wear the left bud after the right one, they sound more balanced than the opposite. They are quite unforgiving of "poorly" mastered tracks, including lofi tracks (like Nujabes) or anything with a vinyl hiss.

I also remain uneasy about the build quality of the buds themselves, despite the case being well-built. After removing the eartips a few times the right housing seems to creak quite a bit when pinched.  I just went back to the stock-sized eartips and they seem fine now, possibly sealing tighter as the flange sometimes flips back when I remove from my ears. I think the smaller earhooks give a more secure fit but will need to do some more testing.


----------



## bladefd

dweaver said:


> I have to admit if I could afford to buy the WF1000XM3 I would, just to see what the difference is between them and the AZ70. It helps that they are sale for $199CAD. But I just can't afford them. But I am tempted anyway lol.
> 
> The AZ70 have ruined my listening to the XB700 though, the bass in particular is just to thick on the XB700 after getting used to the AZ70. I put on the L2P and they sounded better than the XB700 but have a bit of hotness to the treble that bothers me a bit though.
> 
> ...



Xm3 dropped to $160 here, which is actually cheapest its ever been (xm4 must be around the corner). I will probably get the xm3 to compare. Unfortunately I already sent back the AZ70 last week so I wouldn't be able to do A/B comparison to xm3. All I have are my notes and so I guess I can kind of compare the basic stuff. I know Sony has a great app. I would be able to compare it to the Sennheiser cx400bt at least.

The bulkiness and lack of aptx/ldac on xm3 kind of makes me reluctant - I have a feeling I might just end up returning. Trying to figure out if there is something else out there worth trying for under $200 that is worth trying versus the Senns - it's probably going to be hard. I really like the Sennheiser sound signature (I have the Sennheiser HD600 too that I bought a couple years ago and I really like their sound signature). I really was serious about the Nuarl 6 and M&D MW07 Go, which are right in my range under $200, but no app at all is not something I like, especially if I am spending this much for earphones.


----------



## Canabuc (Dec 19, 2020)

GeeD said:


> there must be a variation somewhere because mine were perfect on 3.19 ...no loudness effect at all ...stayed just exactly the same.  Now on 3.62 (THX) put ANC on and it is as iff someone switched the Loudness off.


Overall I am debating keeping these or going technics or Sony’s as both right now are 200$ Canadian or less.  I love my galaxy buds plus but want ANC and maybe a bit more of a fuller sound. GBuds are a bit high at treble end .
my worry with the Sony is the fit and comfort as well as no ip rating.
worry with technics are lack of aptx or other good android Codec (have Samsung hone so can use their scalable codec) and worried about latency with videos.... as well as maybe lack of good low end for more bass heavy songs.

other options are the Bose or Sennheisers but they are each 150 or more in price over Sony.

The 1more I got for crazy low price on a short sale and were 150 Canadian or like 117USD. They tick all the boxes except I’m rating though have heard claims they are fine for sweat as I would work out with them using the anc to get rid of some elliptical noise.  Wish volume was a bit louder and maybe battery life a tad longer but battery not a deal breaker.

wondering if Sony users with Samsung phones can comment on latency and sound quality and overall fit and comfort As i am leaning on buying while at this price.
Also how loud are they and how do they compare to the 1more if you have tried both?


----------



## bladefd

Hmm, seems Amazon charged me $7 for return shipping right out of the refund for the AZ70. Do you guys get charged for return shipping?

What do you tell Amazon chat when they ask for reason returning? I would be curious to know if that impacts whether they charge return shipping or not.


----------



## dweaver

I bet the Sony XM4 will end up being sweatproof at least. I am so tempted to buy the XM3 but barring winning the lottery I really have no budget for a pair as much as I want to scratch my curiosity.


----------



## Darkestred

bladefd said:


> Hmm, seems Amazon charged me $7 for return shipping right out of the refund for the AZ70. Do you guys get charged for return shipping?
> 
> What do you tell Amazon chat when they ask for reason returning? I would be curious to know if that impacts whether they charge return shipping or not.



I get this unless there was something wrong with the item. If you sweat nothings them enough you can probably get around it. I have a friend who demands credits ontop of the refund for silly things and he always gets it. Amazon is like most idgaf company.


----------



## clerkpalmer

Laethageal said:


> The only comment I read about the new Gemini might out them as potential candidate for this title.


Mine are on order. Arrive Wednesday. Will report back. Pricey.


----------



## bladefd

Darkestred said:


> I get this unless there was something wrong with the item. If you sweat nothings them enough you can probably get around it. I have a friend who demands credits ontop of the refund for silly things and he always gets it. Amazon is like most idgaf company.



I just checked. Their policy now says that return shipping is at your own expense.. "Your return label will require you to return the item at your own expense."

I don't remember that always being the case. I have returned stuff before with no return shipping charge. Ah well, it's just $7. I won't order stuff much if I don't plan on keeping them. I don't want to argue with Amazon to force them to refund return shipping - I'm sure they would if I were to demand it, but the way I think about it is their policy says return shipping is at own expense so I agreed to their policy when I placed the order.

Also ran into this snippet: "For the 2020 holiday season, most of the *items shipped between October 1 and December 31 can be returned until January 31*, 2021."
That gives me longer time to decide on whether to keep or return the cx400bt. 

I decided to wait for the Melomania Touch to drop on January 1st to try (they have app, cost $150, have long battery and seem to be an improvement over melomania 1). In the meantime, I might just hold off on buying any other wireless earphone right now. Might go get the Sony wf1000xm3 from local store so I don't have to worry about return shipping charge.


----------



## EvilJesus

bladefd said:


> Xm3 dropped to $160 here, which is actually cheapest its ever been (xm4 must be around the corner). I will probably get the xm3 to compare. Unfortunately I already sent back the AZ70 last week so I wouldn't be able to do A/B comparison to xm3. All I have are my notes and so I guess I can kind of compare the basic stuff. I know Sony has a great app. I would be able to compare it to the Sennheiser cx400bt at least.
> 
> The bulkiness and lack of aptx/ldac on xm3 kind of makes me reluctant - I have a feeling I might just end up returning. Trying to figure out if there is something else out there worth trying for under $200 that is worth trying versus the Senns - it's probably going to be hard. I really like the Sennheiser sound signature (I have the Sennheiser HD600 too that I bought a couple years ago and I really like their sound signature). I really was serious about the Nuarl 6 and M&D MW07 Go, which are right in my range under $200, but no app at all is not something I like, especially if I am spending this much for earphones.


I've tried everything from Sabbat to Sony and my MW07 GO are hands down my favorite for sound quality. The lack of an app doesn't bother me but no voice telling me connection status or battery level, something even the cheapest buds I've tried have, does suck.


----------



## bladefd

EvilJesus said:


> I've tried everything from Sabbat to Sony and my MW07 GO are hands down my favorite for sound quality. The lack of an app doesn't bother me but no voice telling me connection status or battery level, something even the cheapest buds I've tried have, does suck.



Can you adjust ANC levels by their touch controls? I would probably turn ANC off and never use it. I'm not a huge fan of diddling around with the touch controls. Often I can't even remember what taps do what (I am kind of new to TWS earphones as well, just getting my first one 2 weeks ago). I just open up settings to adjust volume out of habit from using wired IEMs.


----------



## Canabuc

Ok so I think I am going to return the 1 more. I like the sound but volume is not loud enough. About 10% writer than my GBUDS and 30% my L2P.
My options with ANC: prices are all Canadian
Jabra 75T at 160$ CDN
85T at 260.
XM3 at 200
MW07+ 300
Bose 350
MTW2 350
Technics AZ70W 200

My goal is to have one earbuds that I can use for the most situations:

1..Night Time listening in bed even lying on my side.

2. Working out.
3. Travel.
4. Walking the dog....
5. Regular listening at home.
Call quality less important as I usually speak directly on my phone and at work I don't make calls.

Given this prices which would be the best all around choice. MTW2 seems like it but if also the most expensive. Sony has best value for sounds and ANC but the size and lack of IP rating make it impractical for many situations.


Would love some help here.
BTw use a Samsung phone and like mix of alternative hip hop acoustic and sometimes some Jazz.


----------



## Caipirina

Onurb8690 said:


> Hello guys, I'm not very informed in wireless ears, however which are the best on the market?


This is a bit like asking "What's the best car?" or "What's the best computer?" ... it really depends on what your requirements / preferences are. 
People here are in general very willing to help, just give them a bit more to work with  

For starters, head over to scarbir.com to get some ideas.


----------



## Caipirina

GeeD said:


> there must be a variation somewhere because mine were perfect on 3.19 ...no loudness effect at all ...stayed just exactly the same.  Now on 3.62 (THX) put ANC on and it is as iff someone switched the Loudness off.


also on 3.62(THX) and maybe I did not do enough critical listening before / after, but I did not notice much difference ... 

What I just noticed again is that one of the buds seems to be draining battery in box fast ... those puppies need to be charged and watched while charging just before usage ...


----------



## Caipirina

bladefd said:


> Hmm, seems Amazon charged me $7 for return shipping right out of the refund for the AZ70. Do you guys get charged for return shipping?
> 
> What do you tell Amazon chat when they ask for reason returning? I would be curious to know if that impacts whether they charge return shipping or not.



I don't recall the exact wording, but I had that with amazon.de as well that in SOME (not all) cases they charge for return shipping ... it's somewhere in the legaleese


----------



## vladzakhar (Dec 20, 2020)

clerkpalmer said:


> Mine are on order. Arrive Wednesday. Will report back. Pricey.


+1, it's better be good for this price. Anyway, Crutchfield has 60 days return policy.


----------



## vladzakhar

Caipirina said:


> I don't recall the exact wording, but I had that with amazon.de as well that in SOME (not all) cases they charge for return shipping ... it's somewhere in the legaleese


They'll charge for return shipping if you bought it from the Third party company selling through Amazon. If the item is form Amazon warehouse, when the return shipping is free.


----------



## vladzakhar

Canabuc said:


> Ok so I think I am going to return the 1 more. I like the sound but volume is not loud enough. About 10% writer than my GBUDS and 30% my L2P.
> My options with ANC: prices are all Canadian
> Jabra 75T at 160$ CDN
> 85T at 260.
> ...


I had all of the above, except AZ70s and end up keeping Jabra Elite 75T Active, the most versatile in my opinion. And their were crazy cheap on Target Thanksgiving sale. Only $100.


----------



## Canabuc

vladzakhar said:


> I had all of the above, except AZ70s and end up keeping Jabra Elite 75T Active, the most versatile in my opinion. And their were crazy cheap on Target Thanksgiving sale. Only $100.


How is the added ANC?
Here in Canada they didn't drop the price and I can get 85t for same price as the 75t active.....
So far if I factor price and sound quality am leaning Jabra Sony or Mwo7+ or Technics.

Think Bose are to bulky and expensive. MTW2 are quite expensive given something newer and better comes out a year later.....

Alo found the AKG ones for 240 CDN$ but hear they don't have goodANC so not big upgrade over my Samsung's.


----------



## Tommy C (Dec 20, 2020)

Canabuc said:


> How is the added ANC?
> Here in Canada they didn't drop the price and I can get 85t for same price as the 75t active.....
> So far if I factor price and sound quality am leaning Jabra Sony or Mwo7+ or Technics.
> 
> ...



I haven’t had the opportunity to listen to those but you may want to consider the Panasonic RZ-S500WK as well. Different driver than the Technics, comes with ANC and app similar to the Technics. Currently on sale in Canada $148 CAD. Reviews on the web are pretty good.


----------



## Canabuc

Tommy C said:


> I haven’t had the opportunity to listen to those but you may want to consider the Panasonic RZ-S500WK as well. Different driver than the Technics, comes with ANC and app similar to the Technics. Currently on sale in Canada $148 CAD. Reviews on the web are pretty good.


If I don't mind the white silver Technics model it is at 186. For 40$ more would go for that one. Just hearing it lacks bass,no auto stop, very bulky sticks out a lot. So a bit reluctant to try.


----------



## Tommy C

Canabuc said:


> If I don't mind the white silver Technics model it is at 186. For 40$ more would go for that one. Just hearing it lacks bass,no auto stop, very bulky sticks out a lot. So a bit reluctant to try.



Same here. I have been on search and hunt for a few weeks now. Still unsung a pair of Jabra which is good enough when out and about and been super reliable to me for almost 3 years but looking for something with better sq. Unfortunately I don’t think there is a clear winner as they all have some drawbacks.


----------



## earmonger

Canabuc said:


> wondering if Sony users with Samsung phones can comment on latency and sound quality and overall fit and comfort As i am leaning on buying while at this price.
> Also how loud are they and how do they compare to the 1more if you have tried both?



If latency matters, don't get the Sonys. Dialogue is definitely out of sync with my Samsung S10. Everything looks like a badly dubbed foreign-language movie.

I like the sound quality, especially with ANC on, but fit is tricky because there's the large oblong shape, where it says Sony, that has to sit just right in your ear. I also had to get aftermarket memory foams to get a seal--something from Ali, but I've forgotten which.  The Sony are very good for music, and if I ever take a plane again they are coming with me for the ANC. But if you're planning to watch videos, get something like Galaxy Buds that are made to sync with the phone.


----------



## Canabuc

earmonger said:


> If latency matters, don't get the Sonys. Dialogue is definitely out of sync with my Samsung S10. Everything looks like a badly dubbed foreign-language movie.
> 
> I like the sound quality, especially with ANC on, but fit is tricky because there's the large oblong shape, where it says Sony, that has to sit just right in your ear. I also had to get aftermarket memory foams to get a seal--something from Ali, but I've forgotten which.  The Sony are very good for music, and if I ever take a plane again they are coming with me for the ANC. But if you're planning to watch videos, get something like Galaxy Buds that are made to sync with the phone.


Thanks. Have the galaxy buds and do enjoy them though the highs get a bit tiring after a while. Also want something withANC for workouts.....


----------



## earmonger

Another one that's getting a lot of hype is the Lypertek Tevi--headfonia loved it. 

https://www.headfonia.com/lypertek-tevi-review/

And they just introduced a cheaper new one, Lypertek Levi, $59. Has anyone gotten those yet? 

https://www.lypertek.com/shop


----------



## Canabuc

For fun ordered the Sony and 75t active in Amazon. There was a warehouse deal albeit in mint green on the Jabra for 105 Canadian or about 80$. New price is 260.

Will give them a go though the 1mores I've changed the tips in 1 ear and the hooks and seal is a bit better. I really do like the sound and great price. Might just end up keeping these as the fit is very secure for working out and has every other feature I like with ANC. Think the better fit bit louder too. Will re test against my Samsung buds +


----------



## Tommy C (Dec 20, 2020)

Amazon Canada has the Anker Soundcore Liberty 2 Pro (white only) for $129 CAD when applying the coupon. Good price and the sq _should_ be top tier.


----------



## Canabuc

Tommy C said:


> Amazon Canada has the Anker Soundcore Liberty 2 Pro (white only) for $129 CAD when applying the coupon. Good price and the sq _should_ be top tier.


And I saw the black at 129 with 20$coupon too


----------



## jhwalker

Tommy C said:


> Amazon Canada has the Anker Soundcore Liberty 2 Pro (white only) for $129 CAD when applying the coupon. Good price and the sq _should_ be top tier.



The Liberty 2 Pros (along with the Apple AirPod Pros) are my favorites after the Devialet Gemini, and that's a great deal on them.


----------



## Poolstikmcgrit

COSTCO has the MW07+ on sale for members until 12/24. $179.

Seems like a hell of a deal.


----------



## clerkpalmer

I had stopped using my N400 in favor the MTW2.  I dusted them off yesterday.  Predictably, getting them to charge was a PIA. Unless they are perfectly seated in the case, they won't charge.  Man the hardware and software stinks aside from the nice build quality on the buds and case themselves but they sound so good I almost forgive Samsung.  To my ears, they sound better then the MTW2.  If you like a warm rich sound, the MTW2 is probably more suited but the N400 are more neutral and pleasing to my ears with a nice bass bump.  While I haven't yet heard the Air Pods Max, from the descriptions, they may be tune similarly.  I think the N400 is the best sounding TWS out there.  Funnily enough, they randomly connected to my phone at midnight despite being put away in the case 4 hours earlier.  If the N400 is blueprint for the new Galaxy Buds Pro, they are going to be excellent.

As an aside, any MTW2 owners notice that the ANC is a joke?  Mine literally does nothing to cut noise.  I can tell when it switches on and off but otherwise, it's completely useless.  I actually think ANC increases external sound.  It's strange because many reviews compared the ANC to the Sony and Bose.  So either I have a faulty set or the reviews are off.  A quick search on reddit suggests that many people have the same issue so I am chalking it up to bad implementation rather than a defect in my set.  Are those reviewers paid to say the ANC is great?

Lastly, my Gemini arrive tomorrow.  I went back and forth on purchasing them before pulling the trigger.  Reports are flakey software and connection issues but excellent sound.  We shall see.


----------



## webvan

webvan said:


> I was pretty happy with the Bomaker SiFi II thanks to their stellar passive isolation that's great for riding on my home trainer but I'm noticing some annoying driver flex in the left ear now, anyone else have that ?



Problem fixed, it was my left ear (drum) that had some "driver flex" !


----------



## greenkomodo1

Right, whoever recommended me the *JBL CLUB PRO+ TWS thank you very much. * I can finally say I found a pair of TWS that don't destroy my ear and I can wear them pain free. The sound is pretty great and the app lets you control the signature so easy. I will say that I don't think I even need foam for these to stay in my ears but issues is if you use the foam tips you cannot close the charging case so they don't charge. Also the ANC is kinda sucky and if I'm running I get a bit of 'cable noise' like I hear the bump of my feet if that makes sense but it will do for now.

If anyone know of any other earphones with the same fit profile as the JBL then let me know!


----------



## cresny

clerkpalmer said:


> Lastly, my Gemini arrive tomorrow.  I went back and forth on purchasing them before pulling the trigger.  Reports are flakey software and connection issues but excellent sound.  We shall see.



I have been tracking that thread as well. Mine arrive Wednesday. Here is what I plan to wear for the firmware updating process.


----------



## bladefd

Poolstikmcgrit said:


> COSTCO has the MW07+ on sale for members until 12/24. $179.
> 
> Seems like a hell of a deal.



Yup, I saw that when looking at Costco website couple days ago while looking to see if Costco sells sony wf-1000xm3 (they unfortunately don't). I really thought about buying the mw07+, but the lack of app pushed me away. I don't feel it worth spending 180 with no app, but that's a very good price. I don't know - I could always return it


----------



## Tommy C

bladefd said:


> Yup, I saw that when looking at Costco website couple days ago while looking to see if Costco sells sony wf-1000xm3 (they unfortunately don't). I really thought about buying the mw07+, but the lack of app pushed me away. I don't feel it worth spending 180 with no app, but that's a very good price. I don't know - I could always return it



No app and they have annoying hiss at low volume like the GO model.


----------



## clerkpalmer

cresny said:


> I have been tracking that thread as well. Mine arrive Wednesday. Here is what I plan to wear for the firmware updating process.


 
Thankfully they came from France and not the UK.


----------



## dweaver

clerkpalmer said:


> I had stopped using my N400 in favor the MTW2.  I dusted them off yesterday.  Predictably, getting them to charge was a PIA. Unless they are perfectly seated in the case, they won't charge.  Man the hardware and software stinks aside from the nice build quality on the buds and case themselves but they sound so good I almost forgive Samsung.  To my ears, they sound better then the MTW2.  If you like a warm rich sound, the MTW2 is probably more suited but the N400 are more neutral and pleasing to my ears with a nice bass bump.  While I haven't yet heard the Air Pods Max, from the descriptions, they may be tune similarly.  I think the N400 is the best sounding TWS out there.  Funnily enough, they randomly connected to my phone at midnight despite being put away in the case 4 hours earlier.  If the N400 is blueprint for the new Galaxy Buds Pro, they are going to be excellent.
> 
> As an aside, any MTW2 owners notice that the ANC is a joke?  Mine literally does nothing to cut noise.  I can tell when it switches on and off but otherwise, it's completely useless.  I actually think ANC increases external sound.  It's strange because many reviews compared the ANC to the Sony and Bose.  So either I have a faulty set or the reviews are off.  A quick search on reddit suggests that many people have the same issue so I am chalking it up to bad implementation rather than a defect in my set.  Are those reviewers paid to say the ANC is great?
> 
> Lastly, my Gemini arrive tomorrow.  I went back and forth on purchasing them before pulling the trigger.  Reports are flakey software and connection issues but excellent sound.  We shall see.


If you like the N400 sound I think you would like the AZ70. They are on the neutral side as well but can go deep if the song requires it and their ANC works pretty good in my experience. I waffle between the AKG type sound and Sony or Sennheiser. The AZ70 is more like the AKG.


----------



## clerkpalmer

dweaver said:


> If you like the N400 sound I think you would like the AZ70. They are on the neutral side as well but can go deep if the song requires it and their ANC works pretty good in my experience. I waffle between the AKG type sound and Sony or Sennheiser. The AZ70 is more like the AKG.


Good comparison. I think as I get older, i prefer the AKG style. I find the Senns and Sony lack some sparkle. Probably a combination of age and too many heavy metal concerts in my teens. The MTW with some treble boost and their high quality mode is definitely impressive but if I had to pick 1 set to live with for sq, it would be the AKG.


----------



## dweaver

Thats exactly why I like the AZ70, i missed the sparkle of the AKG sound and these give me that type of sound. It didn't hurt that I was able to get for a much more affordable price than buying actual AKG too . I also own the original Galaxy buds and several AKG products such as the 700NC, 200N, etc. But these AZ70 beat those all in one area or another.  The Gbuds for example do not have as much detail and the bass is more limited. The full size 700NC are a bit AKG tuned lacking the sub bass and suffering from a lack of dynamics at times.

For me the sense of immersion is important and the AZ70 seem to do that better than a lot of my other BT based products.


----------



## Canabuc

Ok well you guys have done it.
I have now ordered the Sonys the Jabra 75t active and the Technics which in white just dropped to 177$cdn or about 135$ USD. Will spend the holidays doing alot of ABC and D comparisons to choose a winner.

My sound preference is like the a warmer buds plus. Meaning a bit more Bass and a bit less treble as I find the female voices a bit shouty..


----------



## dweaver (Dec 21, 2020)

The white looks pretty good and thats an even better price. Look forward to your take on them. A word of advice, use them exclusively for a couple days if possible to give your ears and brain time to adjust as they do have significantly differet tuning than most TWS. They are more neutral so might seem to bright for you. I am succeptible to treble fatigue but I have not had any using these so don't think the treble is over the top but each person's tolerance will be different.

Look forward to the Sony comparison. They are the one TWS I have been tempted to buy over and over.


----------



## Tommy C

Canabuc said:


> Ok well you guys have done it.
> I have now ordered the Sonys the Jabra 75t active and the Technics which in white just dropped to 177$cdn or about 135$ USD. Will spend the holidays doing alot of ABC and D comparisons to choose a winner.
> 
> My sound preference is like the a warmer buds plus. Meaning a bit more Bass and a bit less treble as I find the female voices a bit shouty..



Where do you see the white AZ70 for $177? Sigh I’m tempted to by 3-4 different pairs of TWS and keep the ones I like the most lol


----------



## bladefd

Hmm, just read the MTW2 have had the high-end sound tuning for couple months, but I don't see it listed on my cx400bt in Smart Control app. I did some googling, and it seems MTW2 exclusive. 

Cx400bt has same drivers too, but I guess Sennheiser doesn't want to undercut their MTW2 sales. Pretty disappointing. Hope they include it in future firmware update..


----------



## Canabuc

Tommy C said:


> Where do you see the white AZ70 for $177? Sigh I’m tempted to by 3-4 different pairs of TWS and keep the ones I like the most lol


They are back up to 198 now. They were 186 yesterday out in my save it later part of cart. Today went to check status of my Sony and Jabra order and saw notification price dropped by over 9$. I bit. Not sure about the white though I like the silver and all my other buds are black.

If I decide to go foam tips for better bass, what size would fit?


----------



## clerkpalmer

bladefd said:


> Hmm, just read the MTW2 have had the high-end sound tuning for couple months, but I don't see it listed on my cx400bt in Smart Control app. I did some googling, and it seems MTW2 exclusive.
> 
> Cx400bt has same drivers too, but I guess Sennheiser doesn't want to undercut their MTW2 sales. Pretty disappointing. Hope they include it in future firmware update..


It's a very subtle difference. Probably not worth feeling like you are missing out.


----------



## CoryGillmore

I was given a Jabra Elite 75t as a gift and these things are legit. I’ll never carry a DAP and my IER-M9 out and about again. Bass is too much even on the neutral EQ setting but I was able to adjust the bass down a few db and now they’re great. Bass is very impressive on these things. The ANC is great, the hear through functionality is great. I have zero complaints with these. Very impressed. Carrying case is tiny and stores nicely in a pocket. I always thought of Jabra kinda as the Beats of Bluetooth talking devices lol. Overpriced status symbols etc. But definitely give these a try if you get the chance. Especially if you like BASS.


----------



## Poolstikmcgrit

bladefd said:


> Yup, I saw that when looking at Costco website couple days ago while looking to see if Costco sells sony wf-1000xm3 (they unfortunately don't). I really thought about buying the mw07+, but the lack of app pushed me away. I don't feel it worth spending 180 with no app, but that's a very good price. I don't know - I could always return it


Ended up going with the CX400, it was 130 @ Best Buy,  and so far am really enjoying them.  

Sound better than my older IE80, and is far less cumbersome than my iSine20 w/ES100 setup I usually run for "OTG great sound."

Granted it's not quite to the level of the iSine, but also don't have people around me hearing my music too.

Pairing the CX400 with the Wavelet app on my phone, and it's been FAR superior to using the Sennheiser app.


----------



## bladefd

Poolstikmcgrit said:


> Ended up going with the CX400, it was 130 @ Best Buy,  and so far am really enjoying them.
> 
> Sound better than my older IE80, and is far less cumbersome than my iSine20 w/ES100 setup I usually run for "OTG great sound."
> 
> ...



I will check out Wavelet! What eq presets do you use with cx400??


----------



## Tommy C

Canabuc said:


> They are back up to 198 now. They were 186 yesterday out in my save it later part of cart. Today went to check status of my Sony and Jabra order and saw notification price dropped by over 9$. I bit. Not sure about the white though I like the silver and all my other buds are black.
> 
> If I decide to go foam tips for better bass, what size would fit?



sorry, not sure about the foam tips but I’m sure other will be able to chime in.


----------



## Caipirina

clerkpalmer said:


> I had stopped using my N400 in favor the MTW2.  I dusted them off yesterday.  Predictably, getting them to charge was a PIA. Unless they are perfectly seated in the case, they won't charge.  Man the hardware and software stinks aside from the nice build quality on the buds and case themselves but they sound so good I almost forgive Samsung.  To my ears, they sound better then the MTW2.  If you like a warm rich sound, the MTW2 is probably more suited but the N400 are more neutral and pleasing to my ears with a nice bass bump.  While I haven't yet heard the Air Pods Max, from the descriptions, they may be tune similarly.  I think the N400 is the best sounding TWS out there.  Funnily enough, they randomly connected to my phone at midnight despite being put away in the case 4 hours earlier.  If the N400 is blueprint for the new Galaxy Buds Pro, they are going to be excellent.
> 
> As an aside, any MTW2 owners notice that the ANC is a joke?  Mine literally does nothing to cut noise.  I can tell when it switches on and off but otherwise, it's completely useless.  I actually think ANC increases external sound.  It's strange because many reviews compared the ANC to the Sony and Bose.  So either I have a faulty set or the reviews are off.  A quick search on reddit suggests that many people have the same issue so I am chalking it up to bad implementation rather than a defect in my set.  Are those reviewers paid to say the ANC is great?
> 
> Lastly, my Gemini arrive tomorrow.  I went back and forth on purchasing them before pulling the trigger.  Reports are flakey software and connection issues but excellent sound.  We shall see.



We are now comparing TWS with the new Apple over ear offering? 

2 other things you mention that bug me in general ... those buds that need to be watched / monitored to make sure they charge correctly ... and those buds that decide to hijack the phone's BT connection that you are currently using (and start wondering where the music went) ... happened last night with the ANBES 359, they just showed up in my BT menu as connected, though they sat in their case ... the Sabbat X12 love doing that too, so much so, that I actually say 'forget device' quite often 

I guess I will never have a chance to get and try those N400 ... ah well ...


----------



## chinmie

Caipirina said:


> other things you mention that bug me in general ... those buds that need to be watched / monitored to make sure they charge correctly ... and those buds that decide to hijack the phone's BT connection that you are currently using (and start wondering where the music went) ... happened last night with the ANBES 359, they just showed up in my BT menu as connected, though they sat in their case ... the Sabbat X12 love doing that too, so much so, that I actually say 'forget device' quite often



if that happens, it means that the charging case is totally depleted, and causes the earpieces to turn on because it thinks that they're being "taken out from the case"


----------



## erockg

erockg said:


> Got them today.  At first, I thought they sounded awful with the stock tips.  Switched out to a pair of Spinfits and boom, really nice, balanced.  Wish I could EQ them and not be bound to EQ presets.  They don't get super loud, but the fit is quite nice, almost as if you had them fitted.  ANC is light.  Nothing like the MTW2 or APP.  Controls are very sensitive.  Still taking them for a spin.  I don't think they're worth the $299 asking price at all.  If you can get them for the 225 like me, maybe.  Never had a pair of RHA.  Build quality is very nice, case is nice too.  A little big, but around the same size and the MTW2 case, but with wireless charging and more solid.


Sadly, I'm returning these.  The fit just killed my ears.


----------



## Poolstikmcgrit

bladefd said:


> I will check out Wavelet! What eq presets do you use with cx400??


I use the auto eq, and use the CX400 profile as well as the MTW2 settings. 

Usually prefer the MTW2 high end tuning profile.


----------



## dweaver

Canabuc said:


> They are back up to 198 now. They were 186 yesterday out in my save it later part of cart. Today went to check status of my Sony and Jabra order and saw notification price dropped by over 9$. I bit. Not sure about the white though I like the silver and all my other buds are black.
> 
> If I decide to go foam tips for better bass, what size would fit?


I just tried some comply tips but I am unsure which size (maybe 400s). They are tight but fit and still work in the case. These are the isolation model. I think I have some smart cores around I will see if I can find them.

They definitely warmed up the sound a bit compared to the regular tips and even the Sony hybrids. Very nice. Might try these for a few days.


----------



## vladzakhar

First impressions of Devialet Gemini:
Using Iphone AAC codec: sound quality is definitely better when all I heard before, including MTW2.
With a little EQ help though.
I even want to buy some DAP supporting APTX to see if it will be even better.
They are super comfy in my ears, no fatigue and I don't need to push them in to get the better seal.
Touch controls are ok and didn't give any registering mistakes.
Passive isolation is very good due to construction of the bud. I wouldn't use their tips though.
I put some spin fits on and they fit great and the case is very friendly for 3rd party tips.
I didn't test ANC yet in the noise environment. Can't tell the difference when it's quiet.
They hard to update, it took me some time to do it. Don't give up, they eventually will update after numerous connection and disconnection with the phone's blue tooth and app.
Little pricy but worth it for sound quality along.
My Jabra's EA 75Ts are better all a-rounder for every day use, but if you want to experience more head-fi sound, Gemini's are way to go.


----------



## kolbo

vladzakhar said:


> First impressions of Devialet Gemini:
> Using Iphone AAC codec: sound quality is definitely better when all I heard before, including MTW2.
> With a little EQ help though.
> I even want to buy some DAP supporting APTX to see if it will be even better.
> ...


Can you share your EQ settings for them?


----------



## Canabuc

My Sony's and Jabra came in today.
Jabras are small! 
Sony's are big!
Out of the box the Sony's tips were too small and sounded terrible. I didn't have time to test before work so popped the tops from my L2P onto them and wow sound is much better. There was a firmware update so didn't do much listening and will need time to find right tips and eq settings. Don't understand having bass eq and a clear bass....

As for Jabra they sounded very good very V shaped played a bit. But played with EQbumpin down bass a bit bumping up the 400 and 1k settings and dipping the next one a few notches really helped the sound.
It is powerful yet clear. Great Bass without overpowering the vocals. Dialing down the treble made took away any harshness.

I think the Sony sound in very brief assessment is a bit richer and wider.

Compared to the 1more ANC, the volume on both is easily 10 percent louder i.e setting volume at 70 is like 80 on the 1more.

Sound on more is definitely warmer with great Bass as well and nice treble . Vocals mids are hit or miss depending on song. High pitched vocals tone down and sound great but groups like Muse I don't like the vocals as much. The 1more have a great presence and full sound. They are also surprisingly comfortable with very secure fit with earhooks so would not fall out with activity. I really like their sound the more I listen. ANC not the strongest but doesn't need to be given the secure fit. Price I got them for was great also but I think the lack of EQ and volume might be deal breakers as some songs don't sound good on them.

My Buds + have a nice sound but more I listen to these others the more I find it tuned to high in the treble regions but very clear.

Will update as I get a chance to fit the Sony's and spend more time with them and the Jabra. And of course the Technics arrive tomorrow.

If and when time permits will try to create a whole pro cons list of these 3 new ones  the 1more the buds + and L2P.

Called it the nuts Guide to sub 200$ brand name buds

Man my wife is not happy with me as every time she tries to talk to me my ears are blocked with music.


----------



## dweaver

OK I wish I knew which size of Comply tips I am using because they sound amazing on the AZ70. If you have some tips kicking around its worth playing with them to see if they will fit. It took the bass right to sweet spot and warmed the sound in general right to the spot of perfection.  Listening to Patricia Barber right now and its just blissful.

Switched up to Rest by Backah Shae and the bass goes deeper, tried Cornfield Chase from Interstellar and the bass was not as not quite to the sweet spot but closer, Greg Keeler, When I See You, was spot on and the Piano in the song was slightly richer, switched to Nelly McKay, Zombie and it was not quite as sharp with a bit more warmth and the 3D sound scape was a bit wider, moved on to Pink Floyd, Dark Side of the Moon and the bass is just a bit harder hitting and the songs have more warmth and a slightly wider sound stage.

So if anyone has the AZ70 and find it on so close to perfect but want some more warmth and bass presence then Comply tips will fit your bill.

I will keep trying to figure out what size I have...


----------



## clerkpalmer

Caipirina said:


> We are now comparing TWS with the new Apple over ear offering?
> 
> 2 other things you mention that bug me in general ... those buds that need to be watched / monitored to make sure they charge correctly ... and those buds that decide to hijack the phone's BT connection that you are currently using (and start wondering where the music went) ... happened last night with the ANBES 359, they just showed up in my BT menu as connected, though they sat in their case ... the Sabbat X12 love doing that too, so much so, that I actually say 'forget device' quite often
> 
> I guess I will never have a chance to get and try those N400 ... ah well ...


I was comparing them based on tuning although I have not heard the APM yet but I've heard positive things about the tuning (i.e. very neutral, crisp and clean with a bass boost.).  As for the N400, I probably wouldn't recommend them due to the gremlins with charging etc. and with the new Pros coming out I'd probably wait and hope they solve the problems and are tuned similarly.


----------



## Canabuc (Dec 22, 2020)

Will start first part of the comparison as I don't need to listen to give opinions:

Case:

Best:
Tie
1a. Samsung buds + have great size and charge wirelessly. Bad part are slippery, add only 11 hours to the total time.

1b. Jabra. Also great sizeand shape. Hold bids a bit more securely than samsung.Add about 21 hours of charge in non ANC mode. Lack wireless chargi g or would be the winner.

2. 1more. Wireless charging. Extra 12 plus hours. Best build quality nice metal finish. Size is bigger than 1st place. Very secure...

3. L2P. Great extra time on it. More than 16 hours. Wireless charging. Bigger but pocketable form factor. Doubles as a fidget spinner. A bit awkward putting buds in.

4. Sony. Technics not here yet bit from what I've seen in reviews only adds 12 hours battery life. Bulky and no wireless charging,but nice design aesthetic
Sony's are big but at least not wide. Fit snug. No wireless charging but adds a good 21 hours to the play time.


----------



## clerkpalmer

Brief first impressions on the Devialet Gemini with much more listening to be done.  I'll start with the sound - woah it's good.  Like, I may prefer them to my Drop Panda good.  Like, I couldn't believe my ears good.  Bass runs super deep into sub bass territory and unlike anything I've heard before on a TWS.  Highs are crisp and detailed - possibly a touch hot but I'm not super sensitive to this.  Slightly warm without treading into dark.  I may be declaring them the new SQ champ.

Pairing is a hot mess and takes me back to the Bragi Dash. You have to manually pair L and R and it's not entirely clear in what order.  It took me 20 minutes to get them up and running.  And, it seems that they may need to be manually paired for each use.  The users over on Reddit predict this will be fixed by firmware at some point but I'm not sure this is going to be an easy fix.  I have no idea what chipset they are running or how it was possible in 2020 to release a product with a pairing set up like this.  Yeesch.  

ANC seems really strong.  Maybe not Bose strong but way way better than MTW2 (ANC is a joke on these).  Definitely knocked out my fan on "High".  

App is cool.  Multiple settings for ANC, neutral and transparency.  Full EQ available and update went pretty smooth for me.

Price is $300 so not cheap but that _sound_ ... more to come.


----------



## clerkpalmer

vladzakhar said:


> First impressions of Devialet Gemini:
> Using Iphone AAC codec: sound quality is definitely better when all I heard before, including MTW2.
> With a little EQ help though.
> I even want to buy some DAP supporting APTX to see if it will be even better.
> ...


What EQ tweaks are you making?  I am using Aptx on my Fold 2 - sound is sublime.  Closest to a wired experience I've had to date including MW07 and MTW2.


----------



## clerkpalmer

Poolstikmcgrit said:


> Ended up going with the CX400, it was 130 @ Best Buy,  and so far am really enjoying them.
> 
> Sound better than my older IE80, and is far less cumbersome than my iSine20 w/ES100 setup I usually run for "OTG great sound."
> 
> ...


The ANC is so bad on the MTW2, I cannot imagine any reason to buy the MTW2 over the CX400.  It's worthless.  That makes the CX400 a steal at $130 assuming it sounds exactly the same as the MTW2.


----------



## vladzakhar

kolbo said:


> Can you share your EQ settings for them?


I am using 3rd party Player on Iphone, called JetAudio. It has it's own EQ and plugin called AM3D Audio Anhancer which makes the bass even deeper and treble better.


----------



## clerkpalmer

vladzakhar said:


> I am using 3rd party Player on Iphone, called JetAudio. It has it's own EQ and plugin called AM3D Audio Anhancer which makes the bass even deeper and treble better.


Cool.  Didn't know an iPhone offered such capabilities.  I haven't been on iOS for a year partly because of the Audio limitations.  The update seems to have fixed the pairing issue so now they automatically paid to my phone at least.  I also detect some background noise associated with the ANC that is louder than Bose.  Doesn't bother me but it's there.


----------



## bladefd (Dec 22, 2020)

Poolstikmcgrit said:


> I use the auto eq, and use the CX400 profile as well as the MTW2 settings.
> 
> Usually prefer the MTW2 high end tuning profile.



My cx400bt sounds even better with Wavelet on auto eq! I tried presets for cx400, mtw, mtw2 and mtw2 high tuning. I tried other full headphones too like my hd600, but it got muddy with earbuds lol. Of course, that's expected. No way a wireless earbud is replicating a wired HD600.

I tried different earbuds presets too, but most of them sounded out of tune due to being powered by completely different drivers. I also realized Cambridge Audio Melomania 1 has very similar sound signature to the cx400/mtw/mtw2. I could distinguish between the two as I went back and forth, but it was very similar to my ears. I have a feeling I am going to really like the new Cambridge Audio Melomania Touch, which releases on January 1. I'm definitely getting those to try + compare. If they sound similar AND have all of the missing features on top of that for $160, I'm keeping them over cx400.


----------



## bladefd (Dec 24, 2020)

All of you should try Wavelet on android/iphone. I don't know exactly how the presets are set for so many individual earbuds/headphones, but they sound awesome.

Edit: Wavelet is not available on iPhone if you find this post in thread search


----------



## clerkpalmer

bladefd said:


> All of you should try Wavelet. I don't know exactly how the presets are set for so many individual earbuds, but they sound awesome.


I get a lot of clipping on wavelet. Is there a way to address this?


----------



## bladefd

clerkpalmer said:


> I get a lot of clipping on wavelet. Is there a way to address this?



There is a way to stop the clipping. Hit the 3 dots at top right. Enable 'legacy mode' and 'reduce clipping'


----------



## clerkpalmer

bladefd said:


> There is a way to stop the clipping. Hit the 3 dots at top right. Enable 'legacy mode' and 'reduce clipping'


Perfect will revisit this. Gave up on wavelet for this reason.


----------



## vladzakhar

bladefd said:


> All of you should try Wavelet on android/iphone. I don't know exactly how the presets are set for so many individual earbuds/headphones, but they sound awesome.


Wavelet is for Android only.


----------



## bladefd

vladzakhar said:


> Wavelet is for Android only.



Ah, my bad. I assumed without checking. I have no apple products - only Android. 

Looked through the github page  GitHub - jaakkopasanen/AutoEq: Automatic headphone equalization from frequency responses 
Seems to be for Windows/linux/osx/macos. Lists EQU for ios, but it unfortunately requires jailbreaking the iphone, which I don't recommend unless if you have an old iphone around.


----------



## vladzakhar

It's ok, the sound is great on Iphone as is.


----------



## Canabuc

dweaver said:


> OK I wish I knew which size of Comply tips I am using because they sound amazing on the AZ70. If you have some tips kicking around its worth playing with them to see if they will fit. It took the bass right to sweet spot and warmed the sound in general right to the spot of perfection.  Listening to Patricia Barber right now and its just blissful.
> 
> Switched up to Rest by Backah Shae and the bass goes deeper, tried Cornfield Chase from Interstellar and the bass was not as not quite to the sweet spot but closer, Greg Keeler, When I See You, was spot on and the Piano in the song was slightly richer, switched to Nelly McKay, Zombie and it was not quite as sharp with a bit more warmth and the 3D sound scape was a bit wider, moved on to Pink Floyd, Dark Side of the Moon and the bass is just a bit harder hitting and the songs have more warmth and a slightly wider sound stage.
> 
> ...


Have some comply tips at home that I can test just not sure if they will fit.


----------



## jhwalker

clerkpalmer said:


> What EQ tweaks are you making?  I am using Aptx on my Fold 2 - sound is sublime.  Closest to a wired experience I've had to date including MW07 and MTW2.



Like the earlier poster, I find the treble just a bit crisp, so I used the Devialet Gemini app to create a custom EQ that is stored with the buds so it is in effect from any source:






So now it's JUST right


----------



## clerkpalmer (Dec 22, 2020)

jhwalker said:


> Like the earlier poster, I find the treble just a bit crisp, so I used the Devialet Gemini app to create a custom EQ that is stored with the buds so it is in effect from any source:
> 
> 
> 
> So now it's JUST right


Yeah that was me... No need to touch bass or mids on these bad boys.  I swear you can almost feel the bass on these. Pretty impressive. Yet it's controlled and not boomy.


----------



## kolbo

clerkpalmer said:


> Yeah that was me... No need to touch bass or mids on these bad boys.  I swear you can almost feel the bass on these. Pretty impressive. Yet it's controlled and not boomy.


Interesting - I’m the opposite. I raised the highs a bit. But I’m older and come from Andromeda - love clear highs...


----------



## VICosPhi

Jabra Elite 75t are discounted at $99 on BestBuy if anyone is interested

https://www.bestbuy.com/site/jabra-...phones-with-anc-black/6376030.p?skuId=6376030


----------



## CoryGillmore

VICosPhi said:


> Jabra Elite 75t are discounted at $99 on BestBuy if anyone is interested
> 
> https://www.bestbuy.com/site/jabra-...phones-with-anc-black/6376030.p?skuId=6376030


Hell of a deal!


----------



## CoryGillmore

Does anyone know what happens when you stream Tidal MQA tracks to a Jabra Elite 75t? I mean it works and everything but I know it’s not actually transmitting true MQA via Bluetooth. So what is it transmitting? What’s the max bitrate? This is via Tidal app on iPhone


----------



## clerkpalmer (Dec 23, 2020)

CoryGillmore said:


> Does anyone know what happens when you stream Tidal MQA tracks to a Jabra Elite 75t? I mean it works and everything but I know it’s not actually transmitting true MQA via Bluetooth. So what is it transmitting? What’s the max bitrate? This is via Tidal app on iPhone


256 AAC.  Actually, it appears the the Max bitrate for AAC may be 320. It's possible that using tidal versus apple music might get you a slightly higher bitrate but any improvement would be negligible. In short there is no reason to use Tidal Hifi over bluetooth on ios. On Android you can get AptxHD or LDAC for higher bitrates. Over in the air pods max thread, a bunch of apple fans are claiming AAC at 256 is superior to LDAC. I'm not convinced.


----------



## Tommy C (Dec 23, 2020)

OK, so honest question that I often ask myself. I have been in this hobby for almost 10 years now. I’m not the kind of person who will drop a $1000 on a set of IEMs. Heck, when I got in I was purchasing multiple IEMs from known companies and $100 used to get you a very solid set from the Meelectronics, Xears, Ultimate Ears of the hobby but I digress. Anyhow, I have been using TWS for the last 3 years, mainly Jabra and while the sq is acceptable and very solid I still find myself looking for more.  I have tested, returned or demoed other TWS in the last few years but even with the top tier TWS it’s still not there for me like a good solid pair of IEMs.
if money wasn’t an issue who in your opinion is top dog for sound quality without major drawbacks? I’m thinking the following based on my experience and reviews and keeping it focused for TWS that are readily available from Best Buy, Amazon and such:
Senn MTW2 but reading that the ANC sucks.
Sony 1000XM3 pretty big and bulky
M&D MW07 but has no app and a hiss issue
Technics AZ70
Anker Liberty Pro 2
Jabra 75t & 85t
JBL Live TWS300
Cambridge Audio Melomania 1 and Touch (TBD)


----------



## clerkpalmer

Tommy C said:


> OK, so honest question that I often ask myself. I have been in this hobby for almost 10 years now. I’m not the kind of person who will drop a $1000 on a set of IEMs. Heck, when I got in I was purchasing multiple IEMs from known companies and $100 used to get you a very solid set from the Meelectronics, Xears, Ultimate Ears of the hobby but I digress. Anyhow, I have been using TWS for the last 3 years, mainly Jabra and while the sq is acceptable and very solid I still find myself looking for more.  I have tested, returned or demoed other TWS in the last few years but even with the top tier TWS it’s still not there for me like a good solid pair of IEMs.
> if money wasn’t an issue who in your opinion is top dog for sound quality without major drawbacks? I’m thinking the following based on my experience and reviews and keeping it focused for TWS that are readily available from Best Buy, Amazon and such:
> Senn MTW2 but reading that the ANC sucks.
> Sony 1000XM3 pretty big and bulky
> ...



If money wasn't an issue for pure sound quality, my current order would be:

1. Devialet Gemini (crutchfield 2 day shipping 60 day returns btw)
2. Tie MTW2 and MW07
3. Nuarl N6 Pro

I haven't heard the JBL or the Cambridge butni doubt they will best these others in sq. The Technics seem to be getting a lot of praise here too. As you point out, none of these are perfect and all have some drawbacks more or less. The most complete option is probably the Sennheiser provided you don't need strong ANC. Looks like you could grab the CX400 for 130 and end up with the same sq as the MTW minus the high end tuning mode.


----------



## Tommy C (Dec 23, 2020)

clerkpalmer said:


> If money wasn't an issue for pure sound quality, my current order would be:
> 
> 1. Devialet Gemini (crutchfield 2 day shipping 60 day returns btw)
> 2. Tie MTW2 and MW07
> ...



as always, I appreciate your input. I remember you have mentioned the ANC in the Senn so this is a bit of a let down.
Do you feel like any one the ones you have mentioned is getting close to a good set of wired IEMs in that price for sound quality?


----------



## clerkpalmer

Tommy C said:


> as always, I appreciate your input. I remember you have mentioned the ANC in the Senn so this is a bit of a let down.
> Do you feel like any one the ones you have mentioned is getting close to a good set of wired IEMs in that price for sound quality?


I'm probably not the right person to ask about wired IEMs.  I gave up on them a while ago.  I have TWS and over ears nowadays.  The TWS have come along enough for me that any advantages a wired IEM gives me aren't worth the trouble of a cord, DAP etc.  The last decent wired IEM I had was the KXXS and it was so hard to drive that I sold it off.  Anyway, based on memory, I think that these top end TWS can match the performance of a decent wired IEM probably in the $100 to $150 range without much trouble IMHO.


----------



## Canabuc

Tommy C said:


> OK, so honest question that I often ask myself. I have been in this hobby for almost 10 years now. I’m not the kind of person who will drop a $1000 on a set of IEMs. Heck, when I got in I was purchasing multiple IEMs from known companies and $100 used to get you a very solid set from the Meelectronics, Xears, Ultimate Ears of the hobby but I digress. Anyhow, I have been using TWS for the last 3 years, mainly Jabra and while the sq is acceptable and very solid I still find myself looking for more.  I have tested, returned or demoed other TWS in the last few years but even with the top tier TWS it’s still not there for me like a good solid pair of IEMs.
> if money wasn’t an issue who in your opinion is top dog for sound quality without major drawbacks? I’m thinking the following based on my experience and reviews and keeping it focused for TWS that are readily available from Best Buy, Amazon and such:
> Senn MTW2 but reading that the ANC sucks.
> Sony 1000XM3 pretty big and bulky
> ...



L2P have a great sound and can be customised easily as out of the box was not great. However no AMC and no pass through..

I am in process of evaluating the Sony's and really love the rich sound they give me. Not really more bulky than the Liberty 2 Pro but lack of ear hooks make it less table in ear. I like sound so much I am willing to explore different ear tips as if I can get a stable locked in fit I think would be hard to beat them.

Technics arriving today will give updates on my opinions when I can.

If you don't mind a brighter sound with good Bass the Samsung's buds + are actually quite a steal right now. No AMC but good ambient mode.

I am also evaluating Jabra 75tactive.
Sound is very good overall but lacks the sound stage and gravitas of the Sony's.


----------



## vladzakhar

Ok, after the night session with Gemini's. they have one dissent drawback for me: can't lay in bed on my side, the just pause all the time when touching the pillow. It's annoying, cause a lot of my music listening happens in bed. I hope, the can implement some kind of lock of controls in their future firmware update. I can live with that for now, cause, the sound quality is so good, though.


----------



## clerkpalmer

vladzakhar said:


> Ok, after the night session with Gemini's. they have one dissent drawback for me: can't lay in bed on my side, the just pause all the time when touching the pillow. It's annoying, cause a lot of my music listening happens in bed. I hope, the can implement some kind of lock of controls in their future firmware update. I can live with that for now, cause, the sound quality is so good, though.


I wonder if a piece of scotch tape over the sensor might stop that.


----------



## Canabuc

Ok so did a bit more testing last night and man those Sony's can really deliver a great sound. They were good with no EQ but adjusting them a bit really made them great. Better than the L2P overall and a very immersive and large soundstage considered to the 75t active.

Now is where I need help.

While I could get a good deal and with no movement great sound. I could see how Andy bending over it vigorous activity would have them mover and protectively fall out.

Seems their design had the big part stay out of the Concha of the ear so only the bottom of the bud and the ear to keep it in place.

Have read about the xelastane and spin fit type tips helping with not just sound but fit and security of the bud from falling out.
Xelastanes seem not to be availble here in Canada and are expensive to bring in and would not even know what to get as I seen to need a different to side on each ear for best fit.

Foam tips? If so what size and make? Others?


----------



## vladzakhar

clerkpalmer said:


> I wonder if a piece of scotch tape over the sensor might stop that.


Where is the sensor located?


----------



## clerkpalmer

vladzakhar said:


> Where is the sensor located?


I'd probably just tape the entire outside surface.


----------



## dweaver

Well after a day of using the foam tips I love the sound but find comfort is a bit compromised as I find foam itchy after a while and a bit to pressing on my ear canal.

Will see if my ears can get used to the foam.


----------



## bladefd

Tommy C said:


> as always, I appreciate your input. I remember you have mentioned the ANC in the Senn so this is a bit of a let down.
> Do you feel like any one the ones you have mentioned is getting close to a good set of wired IEMs in that price for sound quality?



I ordered the symbio f ear tips for the cx400. I will let you know how the isolation is. You can also try azla xelastec which apparently has great isolation


----------



## bladefd

Canabuc said:


> L2P have a great sound and can be customised easily as out of the box was not great. However no AMC and no pass through..
> 
> I am in process of evaluating the Sony's and really love the rich sound they give me. Not really more bulky than the Liberty 2 Pro but lack of ear hooks make it less table in ear. I like sound so much I am willing to explore different ear tips as if I can get a stable locked in fit I think would be hard to beat them.
> 
> ...



I look forward to your Sony xm3 vs Technics thoughts! I tried the technics and really liked them but ended up returning them for the cx400


----------



## bladefd

Canabuc said:


> Ok so did a bit more testing last night and man those Sony's can really deliver a great sound. They were good with no EQ but adjusting them a bit really made them great. Better than the L2P overall and a very immersive and large soundstage considered to the 75t active.
> 
> Now is where I need help.
> 
> ...



Symbio w and f are apparently great foam eartips - symbio w has better isolation but symbio f is supposed to be a bit softer memory foam. They are made in Hungary and have to be imported. I ordered them last week and should have a pair next week (takes 7-14 days to get them unfortunately). Will let you know what I think but going to be some time until I get it


----------



## Canabuc

bladefd said:


> Symbio w and f are apparently great foam eartips - symbio w has better isolation but symbio f is supposed to be a bit softer memory foam. They are made in Hungary and have to be imported. I ordered them last week and should have a pair next week (takes 7-14 days to get them unfortunately). Will let you know what I think but going to be some time until I get it



Thanks!
Would they improve stability in the ears with the Sony's? I love the sound but if I have to sit like a statue to enjoy them I will have to find the next best....


----------



## bladefd (Dec 23, 2020)

Canabuc said:


> Thanks!
> Would they improve stability in the ears with the Sony's? I love the sound but if I have to sit like a statue to enjoy them I will have to find the next best....



I have not tried the symbio yet to know how they are built and stability.

I don't know if symbio fit the Sony either. You should ask the person who makes them to see if he knows - https://www.head-fi.org/threads/a-review-of-mandarines-foam-tips.825397/page-28#post-16032880

There are also the spinfit.
https://www.spinfiteartip.com/en/product-detail/158

From the reviews I have seen, symbio might be a bit better.


----------



## assassin10000

Canabuc said:


> Foam tips? If so what size and make? Others?



T200 / 4.5mm bore.



dweaver said:


> Well after a day of using the foam tips I love the sound but find comfort is a bit compromised as I find foam itchy after a while and a bit to pressing on my ear canal.
> 
> Will see if my ears can get used to the foam.



Have you tried the tennmak foam tips? They have a durable skin that gives a surface similar to silicone tips instead of itchy comply foams.

If you're in the U.S. I have an extra pair of med t200 or large t400 ones.


----------



## bedlamite

Symbios were too hard and the stems too long for TWS

I found the Xelastecs perfect for the Sonys, they aren’t cheap and you have to experiment with sizing to get the right fit (I went two sizes down from my regular M size), but these grip like nothing else and they’re exactly what you want to counter the unwieldy fit of the WFs.


----------



## Canabuc

bedlamite said:


> Symbios were too hard and the stems too long for TWS
> 
> I found the Xelastecs perfect for the Sonys, they aren’t cheap and you have to experiment with sizing to get the right fit (I went two sizes down from my regular M size), but these grip like nothing else and they’re exactly what you want to counter the unwieldy fit of the WFs.


Wish they were easier to get here in Canada


----------



## bladefd

Canabuc said:


> Wish they were easier to get here in Canada



Can't you get them off Amazon canada?

I really thought about getting the Xelastec, but they were so damn expensive. Sizing is difficult because their medium seems to be too big for most people who typically use medium oem. I would have to order 3 size pack for $30 and they don't have S/MS/M. They only have MS/M/ML pack so if I realize I need small then I lose my money. It's a $30 gamble.


----------



## assassin10000

bladefd said:


> Can't you get them off Amazon canada?
> 
> I really thought about getting the Xelastec, but they were so damn expensive. Sizing is difficult because their medium seems to be too big for most people who typically use medium oem. I would have to order 3 size pack for $30 and they don't have S/MS/M. They only have MS/M/ML pack so if I realize I need small then I lose my money. It's a $30 gamble.



Do you have current tips you use that you know the size of? Or just measure what fits you. This will give you a starting point to determine which pack to get, since Azla lists their dimensions.


----------



## Tommy C

Interesting new products by Ultimate Ears.
looks like a perfect solution for those who just can’t find TWS that fit them properly or causing pain.
unique design for sure and the tips need to be light activated to form the custom mold. 
https://custom.ultimateears.com/pages/ue-fits


----------



## Canabuc

Only 2 pair of medium on Amazon Canada. 65$one another 20 for shipping!


----------



## bladefd (Dec 23, 2020)

assassin10000 said:


> Do you have current tips you use that you know the size of? Or just measure what fits you. This will give you a starting point to determine which pack to get, since Azla lists their dimensions.



Good point. So I use the Sennheiser cx400/mtw2 oem medium (I believe both have same silicon eartips).

Sennheiser mtw diameter:

Outside diameters: Small 11mm (.43") Medium 12.5mm (.49") Large 14mm (.55")
So..






Sennheiser mtw medium tips are little bit on large side for me (not very comfortable) but almost exact size. If Xelastec expands a bit from ear heat then I probably need MS.


----------



## bladefd

Canabuc said:


> Only 2 pair of medium on Amazon Canada. 65$one another 20 for shipping!



Holy crap! $85 for an eartip.. Yeah, that's nuts!


----------



## Canabuc

bladefd said:


> Holy crap! $85 for an eartip.. Yeah, that's nuts!


So either spin fits at 16$ or might have to return them.

Love the sound on the Sony's really full and powerful and dynamic yet separation and soundstage great.

Thinks I don't like though:

1. Flashing lights... Really no disable?

2. Can't have ambient sound volume control and track control on buds at same time. Technics Samsung and Jabra allow.

3. Big case.

But that sound! If I could get a good tight secure comfortable fit these are best I've heard so far. And louder than most other buds too.


----------



## howdy

Tommy C said:


> OK, so honest question that I often ask myself. I have been in this hobby for almost 10 years now. I’m not the kind of person who will drop a $1000 on a set of IEMs. Heck, when I got in I was purchasing multiple IEMs from known companies and $100 used to get you a very solid set from the Meelectronics, Xears, Ultimate Ears of the hobby but I digress. Anyhow, I have been using TWS for the last 3 years, mainly Jabra and while the sq is acceptable and very solid I still find myself looking for more.  I have tested, returned or demoed other TWS in the last few years but even with the top tier TWS it’s still not there for me like a good solid pair of IEMs.
> if money wasn’t an issue who in your opinion is top dog for sound quality without major drawbacks? I’m thinking the following based on my experience and reviews and keeping it focused for TWS that are readily available from Best Buy, Amazon and such:
> Senn MTW2 but reading that the ANC sucks.
> Sony 1000XM3 pretty big and bulky
> ...


You should give the Lypertek Tevi a try. The Tevis are a huge bang for the buck! They have an app and amazing sound. I finally found the right eq setting for mine and have been using them a lot lately. I also have a few of the other"big name" TWS and they compete with them. No NC but they have great passive noise cancelling.


----------



## jant71 (Dec 23, 2020)

Helm Sensus coming whenever(some stuff they announce for CES never show like the probably magnetostat they claimed was electrostat TWS or triple hybrid TWS)




The bullet points...

SoundID Technology: Intelligent Algorithms personalize your enhanced hearing profile in a quick in-app test.

Smart Talk focuses on speech in noisy surroundings with beam forming mics

Native Voice for universal access to voice assistants and emerging brand voice services.

Brilliant HiFi audio delivered by Qualcomm’s aptX-HD™.

Ten-hour battery delivers industry leading all-day performance.

https://helmaudio.com/pages/sensushd


----------



## C_Lindbergh

jant71 said:


> Helm Sensus coming whenever(some stuff they announce for CES never show like the probably magnetostat they claimed was electrostat TWS or triple hybrid TWS)
> 
> The bullet points...
> 
> ...



What a weird case design, the case also looks way too big for my taste.


----------



## jant71 (Dec 23, 2020)

I know I missed the follow up to the S1, the T2...



Seems to have a good shape, take more normal tips than the T5 and has wireless charging. Of course if the T5II are gonna stay or go on sale for $99 often then the T2 should half in price as well since paying $20 more for the T5II is the way to go obviously.


----------



## dweaver

Thanks for clarifying the size.  so T200 or 4.5mm bore. Awesome.

Unfortunately I am not in the US. 

I found them and another brand on Ali Express for $10 and a long wait for them to arrive. But thats OK, time isn't urgent as I can always go back to the Sony hybrid which is super comfy or use the Complies I have on hand.


----------



## Live with Sound

Hey, so I just received the Blon 03 and while you can definitely notice it's a single D driver, for the price it's nothing short of absolutely bananas. Insane. Anyway, these being pretty much free but hitting way above their mark, I was wondering if there are any wireless in-ears with ANC that actually beat it in terms of SQ? Anyone has heard these and owns TWE that are better?

I love not having wires, but man, the quality is so crappy compared to what you can get wired.


----------



## Thesonofkrypton

Of course wired is better at the moment no doubt. I had the blon 3 and returned them. I can tell you that the Sony xm3 are much better than the blon 3. At least to my ears. Much more musical and with much better bass response out of the box.


----------



## chinmie

Live with Sound said:


> Hey, so I just received the Blon 03 and while you can definitely notice it's a single D driver, for the price it's nothing short of absolutely bananas. Insane. Anyway, these being pretty much free but hitting way above their mark, I was wondering if there are any wireless in-ears with ANC that actually beat it in terms of SQ? Anyone has heard these and owns TWE that are better?
> 
> I love not having wires, but man, the quality is so crappy compared to what you can get wired.



if you want the BL03 in a TWS form factor, might as well pair the BL03 itself to something like the BT20S Pro


----------



## Isloo

chinmie said:


> if you want the BL03 in a TWS form factor, might as well pair the BL03 itself to something like the BT20S Pro



i would recommend the Blon-01 . Very similar sound, but with a much better fit with the BT20s Pro. This combination with Wavelet app sounds excellent.


----------



## chinmie

Isloo said:


> i would recommend the Blon-01 . Very similar sound, but with a much better fit with the BT20s Pro. This combination with Wavelet app sounds excellent.


y
yup, as a matter of fact i use the BL01 with my BT20S pro (along with 4 other IEMs and earbuds). the interchangeable connector cables are great!


----------



## cresny

Canabuc said:


> So either spin fits at 16$ or might have to return them.
> 
> Love the sound on the Sony's really full and powerful and dynamic yet separation and soundstage great.
> 
> ...


You've pretty much listed out my minor peeves with the Sonys, the last one being stowing them away is very difficult to do silently; I'm always concerned I'll wake my wife with the clacketty casing!

However I do think these are something special and worth these annoyances. I recently auditioned the Devialet Gemini, and while they do sound spectacular, for some music I actually prefer the Sonys. I can't explain it but it sort of veers into the age-old analog versus digital dynamic. Also the attention to detail in the Sony app is a polar opposite of the hot mess of the Gemini. Things like the wind noise reduction which is works perfectly on bike rides, I'm not sure you'll find such things elsewhere. I know they'll probably be coming out with a new model soon but they knocked it out of the park the first time and at a discounted price they should serve you well.

Finally, the SpinFit 360 mitigated the fit issues for me. They do get loose over time but frankly that may just be a losing battle with ear wax. A slightly adjustment and they're good again.


----------



## Asoares99

Hello, just received today 2 new TWS, the Devialet Gemini and the Noble Audio Falcon pro to join the Sennheiser Momentum True Wireless 2 and the Master & Dynamic MW 07 plus.

Up to today the Sennheiser were clear winners as the sound is really amazing but today I was really surprised by the Falcon Pro. I just opened the box, connected it to my mobile phone without any issue and the first sounds were amazing, this is by no doubt (for me at least) the best TWS I have heard even if I used it for just a short time, The clarity of the music, the openness, seems like I was really with the musicians (I listen mostly progressive metal).

On the other hand quite disappointed with the Devialet for which I had big expectations. From the fact that I was going crazy just to connect it to the fact that somehow the battery was drained and some minutes after were 100%... The sound was nothing special and I did not feel the "happiness" I had with the Falcon pro, like if the music was not so alive. Good looking and with a lot of supposedly good functions if they work, I am struggling to have them connected automatically each time I am trying it as they are never connecting automatically even if I updated the firmware already.


----------



## dweaver

@Canabuc how are the AZ70 doing? Looking forward to your impressions and comparison to the WF-1000XM3. I suspect the Sony will be warmer and smoother.


----------



## Viber

Anyone here tried *Fiil T1 Lite* *?*
Received very positive review by Scarbir and the price it tempting, would still love to hear other opinions.


----------



## dj24

Not sure if It's been posted here but the Klipsch T5 II is currently on sale for $99 at a few places..


Amazon
Gunmetal [amazon.com]
Silver

World Wide Stereo via eBay [ebay.com] (Silver or Gunmetal)
Crutchfield
Silver [sylikes.com]
Gunmetal [sylikes.com]

World Wide Stereo [worldwidestereo.com] (Silver or Gunmetal)
ABT
Silver [abt.com]
Gunmetal [abt.com]

B&H Photo Video
Silver [bhphotovideo.com]
Gunmetal [bhphotovideo.com]


----------



## Canabuc

dweaver said:


> @Canabuc how are the AZ70 doing? Looking forward to your impressions and comparison to the WF-1000XM3. I suspect the Sony will be warmer and smoother.


Good people of Amazon didn't deliver it yesterday them projected for today never came so unless Santa delivers for them not sure when they will come in.


----------



## Dcell7

Viber said:


> Anyone here tried *Fiil T1 Lite* *?*
> Received very positive review by Scarbir and the price it tempting, would still love to hear other opinions.


I have spent a few hours with my Fiil T1 Lite and i totally agree with what Scarbir wrote in his review


----------



## dweaver

Ahhhh that happens at this time of year. Are you in an area that got hit with heavy snow? My Mom has several Amazon parcels that were delayed the past couple of days too.


----------



## jant71

Asoares99 said:


> Hello, just received today 2 new TWS, the Devialet Gemini and the Noble Audio Falcon pro to join the Sennheiser Momentum True Wireless 2 and the Master & Dynamic MW 07 plus.
> 
> On the other hand quite disappointed with the Devialet for which I had big expectations. From the fact that I was going crazy just to connect it to the fact that somehow the battery was drained and some minutes after were 100%... The sound was nothing special and I did not feel the "happiness" I had with the Falcon pro, like if the music was not so alive. Good looking and with a lot of supposedly good functions if they work, I am struggling to have them connected automatically each time I am trying it as they are never connecting automatically even if I updated the firmware already.



Third model and Wizard working the dynamic more and adding in the Knowles SRDD plus aptX adaptive. On paper the Noble should beat the Gemini for SQ. I hear some say the Gemini is amazing and others excellent but just above the Senn and Sony. I'm not convinced on the Gemini yet being anything more than among the leaders of the new crop of SQ champs like the Aviot, Falcon Pro, Radius hybrid etc. I don't think my expectations would have been that big and have put my money on the Nobel for the win.


----------



## Canabuc

dweaver said:


> Ahhhh that happens at this time of year. Are you in an area that got hit with heavy snow? My Mom has several Amazon parcels that were delayed the past couple of days too.


Montreal. Only rain no excuses.


----------



## Canabuc

Must say the galaxy buds that will be out soon sound very tempting.
ANC and spacial audio. 8.5 hours battery dual drivers with 11mm woofer and 6.5 mm tweeter and ipx7 rating. All boxes ticked.


----------



## dweaver

That new G Bud does sound intriguing


----------



## tgx78

People who listens to mainly classical music should try this EQ on AKG N400. Freaking amazing tonally and it beats most of my wired counterparts.


----------



## bladefd

Ended up ordering the Sony xm3 to compare to the cx400bt and perhaps even some basic comparison to the Technics AZ70 from my memory/notes from 2 weeks back. Ordered from Bestbuy to avoid return shipping charges Amazon subtracted from my refund for AZ70. Should have it Monday.


----------



## assassin10000 (Dec 24, 2020)

Got my second set X12 Ultra's in a couple weeks ago. This galerite stone looks more Blue in the marketing pics but is more of a blurple in real life.






Spoiler: First set



First set, advanced stone. Looks more black/white in marketing pics but is purple'ish in real life.







Just made sure they worked and then immediately modified them  . Used some 14.8mm 64Ω N55 drivers I've made earbuds with. Decided to try these drivers as the Ultra Qualcomm chipset drives the original 14.2mm 32Ω drivers much harder/louder than the Pro Realtek chipset.


So far fairly happy with them.


----------



## dweaver

Sitting at home while my family has a lazy Christmas morning sleeping. Excellent chance to relax to some music.

Using my AZ70 and have switched back to my Sony tips. The difference between them and foam is so subtle I prefer the comfort over the sound difference.

Have to say I really appreciate the fact these can allow me to get lost in the music. Everything from the deep bass to the shimmering highs is so detailed and vivid I can close my eyes and drift away in the music as it lifts me away from the daily grind of life.

Hope everyone has a wonderful day and Merry Christmas to those who celebrate this day.


----------



## Canabuc

dweaver said:


> Sitting at home while my family has a lazy Christmas morning sleeping. Excellent chance to relax to some music.
> 
> Using my AZ70 and have switched back to my Sony tips. The difference between them and foam is so subtle I prefer the comfort over the sound difference.
> 
> ...


Merry Christmas! Can't wait to try the Technics when they arrive.
Have to say the Sony's sound amazing but I have many issues with them.
While you can assign the touch buttons you can't get everything in the controls you have to decide between volume, ambient, and playback controls with only 2 of 3. Since I like volume and playback it means of I want to use hear through our and I have to go in app.

The Jabras are best in this regard as I can control every thing with different combos and assign different actions to different sides.

I also don't like with the Sony's they default to having the Ambient sound(ANC) on when you removing them from the case. Have to go in app to turn off since I don't have the ambient controls set to the touch pad. 

Both of these seem like such easy software fixes. Aggravates me enough that if Technics sound as it nearly as good as sunny and if they fit as good or better will return the Sony.

With Sony's at least I managed to get a good fit with the tips from my Sound core L2P. Secure and comfortable so far though haven't tried vigorous activity with them.

I know I am rambling but through lots of comparisons the Jabra active 75t to Sony's, the Jabras are not write there sonically. It's hard to describe because individually the Jabras sound great. After EQing, Bass is great, the highs and miss sound really good in nearly every genre I throw at them. They get plenty loud too. However the sum is not as great as the individual parts. The sound of the Sony sound more wide rich and impactful then the Jabras. I wish I could put the Sony sound in the Jabras bud. Would be perfect.


----------



## dweaver

As much as I am not a fan of touch controls the AZ70 has really grown on me. They have every function needed in them. They also default to whatever you set last in regards to ANC/Ambient/Off so work well in that regard.

I am not sure if its just me getting more and more used to my pair or if the bass improves with time but these have become more full sounding for me. I love when the sub bass kicks in during songs so you suddenly feel it.

@Canabuc when you get yours if your finding them to neutral either use them exclusively to give your brain a chance to get used to the change in signature or let them play if possible when using another IEM so they break in. Either way whether its just me, or the IEM breaks in with use I think these become better over time.


----------



## howdy

Canabuc said:


> Merry Christmas! Can't wait to try the Technics when they arrive.
> Have to say the Sony's sound amazing but I have many issues with them.
> While you can assign the touch buttons you can't get everything in the controls you have to decide between volume, ambient, and playback controls with only 2 of 3. Since I like volume and playback it means of I want to use hear through our and I have to go in app.
> 
> ...


My only wish for the Sony XM4 is to have a better form factor like the Jabra or Sennheiser MTW. I love the sound of the XM3S and I have the xlastix ear tips as they keep them secure and sound is great with them. 
You should try the Jabra 85ts to. I have both 75/85 and prefer the sound of the 85s by a lot, and they much more comfortable.


----------



## jant71 (Dec 26, 2020)

Went to the CES 2021 awards site to see if Sony or anyone was let out early. No leak on the Sony TWS just the WH-1000xm4 and spatial reality stuff won awards.

Saw some new JBL adding to the "PRO +" line up...




and


----------



## Canabuc

howdy said:


> My only wish for the Sony XM4 is to have a better form factor like the Jabra or Sennheiser MTW. I love the sound of the XM3S and I have the xlastix ear tips as they keep them secure and sound is great with them.
> You should try the Jabra 85ts to. I have both 75/85 and prefer the sound of the 85s by a lot, and they much more comfortable.



So the 85t had me intrigued except they weren't on Amazon Canada before today and best buy etc here doesn't let you return earphones.

But saw them listed today and for crazy good price. 216 Canadian. Every where else 260 on sale from 300. So of course I ordered too but will arrive only between January 1 and 10.

What is it about them you prefer over 75t? How does sound compare to XM3?

I find some songs I am liking sound of 75t as much or even more than the Sony. Though Sony is  better sound overall.
That said the 75t are better in every functional way except maybe the ANC effect. That said it is so nice to toggle ANC with a button press on the Jabra without giving up volume control or track changing...

Will definitely have to do a shootout review as I will have in my possession:

Anker Liberty 2 Pro
Sony WF-1000XM3
Technics AZ70W
Samsung Galaxy Buds+
1More True Wireless ANC
Jabra Elite Active 75t and 85t.

So far have not heard the Technics or 85t.

Of the others once using the EQ form the accompanying app my preferences for sound are:

1. Liberty2 Pro tied with XM3
2. Jabra 75t
3.Samsung
4.1More

In fairness the 1More actually sound great but are the warmest sounding pair of the bunch with no EQ in the app.
Samsung also sound great and clear but treble a bit sharp especially on vocals

Liberty 2 Pro before EQ were bad but have most customization and get loud with great highs and Supreme bass. Would be my number 1 earbud as also very comfortable and stable in ear.
Where it fails for me is no ANC no transparency, I have volume and track control but at expense of access to voice assistant. Call quality not great.

Sony's have  just a full rich all around sound that is great for all genres. Loud. Just had the lack of full control on the pads.

Jabra 75t probably best all around bud as best water resistance, heat battery and case as well as controls.
Sound is very good especially after using my sound feature and timing EQ to reduce bass and low treble a drop and raisin mid bass and mids a bit. Opens sound up but not quite to level of the Sony's. Were also by far the cheapest.

So if the 85ts with wireless charging better ANC also have a much better sound, even at loss of some IP rating they would be best choice and Amazon will see a bunch of returns.


----------



## FYLegend

Any eartip suggestions for 1More ANC? I find the stock tips really finicky and struggle to get a good seal on my right ear. Often it sounds like the mids and treble are veiled unless I push it into my ear and hold it.  What's weird is sometimes taking out the left bud and then resuming music seems to make things more balanced. What I have noticed is that playing or resuming a track causes the volume to briefly pan left and right when playing/pausing a track. Changing the volume also causes a subtle fluctuation in the volume left and right.

Meanwhile I'm more and more impressed with the Earfun Free Pro as an overall package.
- Very good fit (best I've experienced so far), although the flange edge of the stock eartips have a tendency to rest uncomfortably against your ears and flip back if you yank them out of your ears too fast.
- ANC is hit or miss. Great for mid-frequencies such as a space heater, but mediocre for outdoor or commuting noises. It also hisses a fair bit with some higher pitched tones. 
- Case battery life is very good. I've used them for nearly a week and only now does it show up as yellow. My only concern is if these indicators are not calibrated accurately and it quickly drops to zero thereafter. The latter is a fairly common problem I've encountered. I'm not sure if it's due to me using a fast charger (most brands advise against it, but why bother when I only have fast chargers at this day and age?)
- No previous track button is one sacrifice, though I rarely use it anyways.
- Bluetooth connection is quite solid but I can't leverage the benefits of BT5.2 at the moment. However, I noticed that they still suffer occasional dropouts with my Note 9 when I am placing my phone upside down in my pocket. This may just be my phone's problem (as it has a noticeable death grip) but I don't get this with most other devices.
- I'm more disappointed you can't use ambient sound or ANC when you are using only one earbud (unless you keep the other bud in your pocket or in the case with the lid open). Other TWS with ambient hearthrough allow you to do this either with an app or if you happen to be using the bud that has the button function to activate it.
- The sound quality is quite versatile with a deep sub-woofer tone. The major reviewers out there seem to like this but I feel like something is off and the bass could be tighter and faster, as it borders on being wooly and sloppy at times. Wondering if the Fiil T1 Pro might be smoother. There's not much bass bleed into the mids but the mids sound thin and recessed where the Galaxy Buds+ sound thick and hits harder on drums. Treble is good but somewhat typical. Reminds me of some budget IEMs back in the day like the Philips SHE3590. Soundstage is wide but not particularly deep, aside from the rumbling bass.
- *Earfun Facebook Page has confirmed to me there won't be any firmware updates or apps coming *



Canabuc said:


> Must say the galaxy buds that will be out soon sound very tempting.
> ANC and spacial audio. 8.5 hours battery dual drivers with 11mm woofer and 6.5 mm tweeter and ipx7 rating. All boxes ticked.


Unfortunately if the continue to nerf the SBC bitpool on Windows 10 it's a no-go for me. They probably want people to use them on mobile devices only with AAC or their Scalable Codec.

With only Jabra and Huawei making recent TWS with multipoint I get a hunch Qualcomm also wants certain benefits to be exclusively on mobile.



Canabuc said:


> Merry Christmas! Can't wait to try the Technics when they arrive.
> Have to say the Sony's sound amazing but I have many issues with them.
> While you can assign the touch buttons you can't get everything in the controls you have to decide between volume, ambient, and playback controls with only 2 of 3. Since I like volume and playback it means of I want to use hear through our and I have to go in app.
> 
> ...


Dang, and I thought the 1Mores defaulting to ANC-off was annoying already. From what I could find online it seems like people are having inconsistent defaults with the Sony, some people have ambient on and others have it off...


----------



## Canabuc

FYLegend said:


> Any eartip suggestions for 1More ANC? I find the stock tips really finicky and struggle to get a good seal on my right ear. Often it sounds like the mids and treble are veiled unless I push it into my ear and hold it.  What's weird is sometimes taking out the left bud and then resuming music seems to make things more balanced. What I have noticed is that playing or resuming a track causes the volume to briefly pan left and right when playing/pausing a track. Changing the volume also causes a subtle fluctuation in the volume left and right.
> 
> Meanwhile I'm more and more impressed with the Earfun Free Pro as an overall package.
> - Very good fit (best I've experienced so far), although the flange edge of the stock eartips have a tendency to rest uncomfortably against your ears and flip back if you yank them out of your ears too fast.
> ...


Unfortunately the stock tips on 1more are oval so finding aftermarket might tough. That is my worry about the 85t. Not sure why I ordered except that I love everything about the 75t but if 85t sound is even better with better ANC then why not try.


----------



## bladefd (Dec 25, 2020)

Canabuc said:


> So if the 85ts with wireless charging better ANC also have a much better sound, even at loss of some IP rating they would be best choice and Amazon will see a bunch of returns.



Do Amazon charge you for return shipping straight out of the refund? If not, what reason do you provide them for returning earbuds?

Merry Christmas everyone!


----------



## assassin10000

bladefd said:


> Do Amazon charge you for return shipping straight out of the refund? If not, what reason do you provide them for returning earbuds?



If you just don't like them they charge shipping. IIfthere is a problem it's free. IIRC

I've only returned 2 pairs of TWS but both had issues. The rest I traded or re-sold.


----------



## Canabuc

bladefd said:


> Do Amazon charge you for return shipping straight out of the refund? If not, what reason do you provide them for returning earbuds?
> 
> Merry Christmas everyone!


There is a list of reasons you want to return an item. If it has to do with defect or performance issues they don't charge.


----------



## Mouseman

Canabuc said:


> Unfortunately the stock tips on 1more are oval so finding aftermarket might tough. That is my worry about the 85t. Not sure why I ordered except that I love everything about the 75t but if 85t sound is even better with better ANC then why not try.


Would the Advanced tips work? They have oval ones.


----------



## Canabuc

Mouseman said:


> Would the Advanced tips work? They have oval ones.


Sorry I don't know I don't have the 85t yet and am not familiar with those tips.

For the record I tried EQing the 75t trying with the rtings review by boosting frequencies the review showed were to low compared to their target curve and vice versa. Sound is really nice now. Just listened to a jazz piece The Awakening by Ahmad Jamal trio and I have to say I looked how they sounded better than the Sonys for that song at least.

Eagerly await the Technics.


----------



## Enn Jott

So, here is a weird christmas story about the apple Airpod Pros that maybe someone can relate to... 

I gifted them to my better half, partially to be able to listen to them myself. First impression: very very nice. huge stage, great separation and so on. I could/should use bigger ear tips to get a better seal and therefore put on the large sized ones, instead of the medium sized ones. All of a sudden all the magic was gone but i had a good seal. So back to the seemingly too small ones and the magic was back. They almost sound as wide and open as my open back over ear AKG K712 Pros. They are lacking some midrange presence and could use some more treble (not EQed atm) but damn. There is no way I can go back to my Chifi BQEYZ KC2s on the Pixel 5 now. Or maybe i should try those with smaller tips? Just how much seal is too much, or too little? 

Never was I ever more baffled about an ear tip change... And now I'm digging through this thread trying to decide which true wireless in-ears I should order next


----------



## Midcentric

Good point...But we still have a notch or two left to close the gap between. 

If LDAC and its updates were occasionally seen, this 'd be a notch up.


----------



## Canabuc

Wow my Amazon Technics delivery never came. Now they have no status update on a delivery date and suspiciously are offering me to refund the product immediately that they are selling now for 23$ more with a clear ship date.


----------



## dweaver

Canabuc said:


> Wow my Amazon Technics delivery never came. Now they have no status update on a delivery date and suspiciously are offering me to refund the product immediately that they are selling now for 23$ more with a clear ship date.


3rd party company on Amazon? Sorry you are getting the run around. Visions is selling both colors for $198 but won't allow returns which in your case is likely a required.


----------



## Canabuc

dweaver said:


> 3rd party company on Amazon? Sorry you are getting the run around. Visions is selling both colors for $198 but won't allow returns which in your case is likely a required.


Amazon has it at that price too with delivery Tuesday. Just weird that my order from the 21st never came. And no updates.  Was direct from Amazon no 3rd party


----------



## dweaver

So tempted to try the Sony WF-1000XM3 but its silly since I am more curious than needing anything and I know I will likely have fit issues since the 700XB have fit issues lol.


----------



## Canabuc

dweaver said:


> So tempted to try the Sony WF-1000XM3 but its silly since I am more curious than needing anything and I know I will likely have fit issues since the 700XB have fit issues lol.


Love their sound but don't like the rest. By that I mean the great ANC turns on automatically when I take bids out of case and can't disable. If I want to manage the ANC by the touch pad on the buds it means I have to forego volume or track control which to me are musts. So it means no ambient sound if I need it quickly with out opening phone and going into the app.
Pretty sure I am returning them if the Technics or 85t are close in sound quality. Truthfully am enjoying the 75t active and the interface is the best and case the smallest.


----------



## jant71

dweaver said:


> So tempted to try the Sony WF-1000XM3 but its silly since I am more curious than needing anything and I know I will likely have fit issues since the 700XB have fit issues lol.



...and most likely two weeks away from seeing the new Sony announced at CES.


----------



## Invalid

jant71 said:


> Hifiman not worth the asking price and the first one was $249 and now goes for $69 so why buy at $299. Falcon 2 impressions are good but there is a Falcon Pro coming so it will be the lower model soon. If you are curious about the TWS800 at $299 the Falcon Pro is gonna be around $250 but adds dual Knowles armatures, new tips and a new three layer diaphragm with titanium coating. Plus a crossover since it is a hybrid now and Wizard continuing to work on the tuning. Just not out yet though.



Yes I saw that they came out with the pro but sadly I’ve only seen reviews of it in Japanese so can’t tell if they rec it or not.


----------



## dweaver

Thanks guys you talked me off the edge of the cliff . Between fit, having to make trade offs for controls and a new model imminent, why would I buy these just for the sake of curiosity. I know the AZ70 will be close sonically speaking and I am enjoying the more balanced signature so why bother...

Plus I am sure the next version will address the shortcomings of this model and its just around the corner...


----------



## Canabuc

Ok decided to send back Sony's. First off to many compromises just to enjoy their sound. Can get nearly as good sound with no ANC from my L2P which fit better and have up rating.

Not to mention the touch buttons now glitching on me and not following the commands. Tried resetting and still same issue.

So for now Elite 75t while not as good sounding is better overall package for all use cases and L2P for just listening with no interruptions.

Will update when Technics and 85t arrive.


----------



## nettuno65 (Dec 28, 2020)

Canabuc said:


> Ok decided to send back Sony's. First off to many compromises just to enjoy their sound. Can get nearly as good sound with no ANC from my L2P which fit better and have up rating.
> 
> Not to mention the touch buttons now glitching on me and not following the commands. Tried resetting and still same issue.
> 
> ...



Thanks to the Amazon holidays extended return policy to January 31st I'm comparing the Sony WF-1000XM3 , Jabra 85t and Technics AZ70

The Sony and the Jabra have a more consumer friendly sound signature, adding bass and mid bass (especially the 85t) they produce a full sound that is surely enjoyable for most people in many music genres

The Technics are completely different, they have a neutral/audiophile signature that I'm aware is not for everyone's taste

Listening to Davis Kind of Blue:

85t too much mid-bass lacking details (can't distinguish notes in Chamber's walking bass lines) can't fix it with the eq
WF-1000XM3 much better in the mid bass section but Coltrane aggressive tenor sax is "small" and Davis muted trumpet is harsh
Both Sony and Jabra loose transparency in the tutti sections, the overall sound get crowded when all the sextet is playing together

A lot more details with the AZ70, I hear all the Davis and Adderley subtle nuances and micro dynamics
Soundstage is deeper, I hear Davis coming closer to the microphone when he wants to have more attack

IMHO is very important not judge the Technics AZ70 out of the box, in my experience they REALLY benefit of a burn-in time


----------



## dweaver (Dec 27, 2020)

nettuno65 said:


> Thanks to the Amazon holidays extended return policy to January 31st I'm comparing the Sony WF-1000XM3 , Jabra 85t and the Technics AZ70
> 
> The Sony and the Jabra have a more consumer friendly sound signature, adding bass and mid bass (especially the 85t) they produce a full sound that is enjoyable for most people in many music genres
> 
> ...


I couldn't tell if it was my brain or the IEM but I definitely noticed changes the longer I used my AZ70 too. I never knew how much I missed this type of signature in an IEM until I had it back. But I do own several full size headphones that have it so may have more easily adjusted back to  it than people who are only used to a more consumer oriented sound.

Just was using my Sony WH-910N listening to Patricia Barber Verse and as I am listening it just sounds wrong and missing detail. I switch over to the AZ70 and its like night and day different. So much more detail and vibrancy. The crazy thing is the 910N is more balanced than the WH1000XM3 and both have LDAC support so in theory should have more detail yet they don't.

I suspect my HE400I will match the detail I hear in the AZ70. My Nighthawk's also achieve it but with a darker portrayal, being a great example of being able to have more bass without sacrificing detail.


----------



## Phil2020 (Dec 27, 2020)

My first thoughts of the cambridge audio melomania buds that I got for Xmas.....
1. My biggest wrorry about these were if they would stay in my ears, as alot of reviews saying they wont stay in. But They fit in my ears perfectly even with the silicon tips, plus because they are round buds you can twist these inside you're ears to make the seal even better. And they are very comfy too.
2. These are quite warm sounding with enough bass but not over powering. And these do sound so, so much better than the airpods, as the airpods sound very tinny in comparisite
3. They could be loader but they go plenty loud enough for me
4. The volume control is very temperamental for me because sometimes the volume wont alter and I have to triple press the bud to make the volume control work. But I have the buds conected to a long range transmitter.
5. The buds came with 5 pairs of silicone(6 in total) tips and 2 pairs of foam tips, as they use to only come with 2 pair of silicon(3 in total) and 1 pair of foam tips..... The packaging has also changed, as they used to come in a nice book like box, but now they come in a ugly brown cardboard box
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Not good.


----------



## C_Lindbergh

Anyone else looking to order the Melomania touch? Hopefully they will be my last purchase of TWS until the next gen with Bluetooth LE 

For the price the Melomania touch seems fantastic, I don't really care that they lack ANC since most IEMS fit's my ears perfectly thus creating a great seal.

I'm just wondering about the whole Brexit situation, I hope there wont be a delay if you wanna order them from any EU store like Amazon.de.


----------



## jant71 (Dec 27, 2020)

C_Lindbergh said:


> Anyone else looking to order the Melomania touch? Hopefully they will be my last purchase of TWS until the next gen with Bluetooth LE
> 
> For the price the Melomania touch seems fantastic, I don't really care that they lack ANC since most IEMS fit's my ears perfectly thus creating a great seal.
> 
> I'm just wondering about the whole Brexit situation, I hope there wont be a delay if you wanna order them from any EU store like Amazon.de.



Guess they may also be a little misleading as well. The Touch claims a certain battery life but there is a high performance mode so you have to check the footnote that it is 7 hours battery down from 9 and then you factor in aptX you are lucky to get 6 and probably 5 or 5.5 hours depending on volume level. You have to be looking since they don't put the asterisk in the battery life pic but in the "unique" high performance audio mode pic. I would rather they just give it more battery life and just sound the best they can all the time. Okay to have an option to extend the battery some but you have to cut the quality and switch something.


----------



## jant71 (Dec 27, 2020)

GeeD said:


> PS - 1More ComfoBuds - https://fccid.io/2ASDIESS3001T/External-Photos/External-Photos-4805810



Already ComfoBuds Pro...



" The 1MORE ComfoBuds Pro True Wireless In-Ear Headphones include great sound, fast charging capabilities, a gaming mode, an upgraded Bluetooth chip and 1MORE’s QuietMax Active Noise Cancellation technology suite which includes ANC, Wind Noise Reduction and a Pass-Through modes. This classic water-drop design showcases how product form doesn’t need to come second to functionality. Housed in this sleek earbud casing is a 13.4mm dynamic driver for pro level audio replication, IR sensors for easy pause/play and battery lasting up to 7 hours on a single playback. "


----------



## C_Lindbergh

jant71 said:


> Guess they may also be a little misleading as well. The Touch claims a certain battery life but there is a high performance mode so you have to check the footnote that it is 7 hours battery down from 9 and then you factor in aptX you are lucky to get 6 and probably 5 or 5.5 hours depending on volume level. You have to be looking since they don't put the asterisk in the battery life pic but in the "unique" high performance audio mode. I would rather they just give it more battery life and just sound the best they can all the time. Okay to have an option to extend the battery some but you have to cut the quality and switch something.



Yes I'm very aware of that, we'll see how much of a difference the high performence mode really make, if it's noticble better then 7 hours is pretty much standard across the board, with a notable exceptions like the Galaxy Buds+.


----------



## howdy

Canabuc said:


> Ok decided to send back Sony's. First off to many compromises just to enjoy their sound. Can get nearly as good sound with no ANC from my L2P which fit better and have up rating.
> 
> Not to mention the touch buttons now glitching on me and not following the commands. Tried resetting and still same issue.
> 
> ...


That sucks that the Sonys are giving you issues now. Mine work great and sound amazing and hopefully stay that way. In my collection of True wireless the Sony and Sennheiser are still my favorite. I also have the LP2s and like the sound but there is something artificial that I hear in the highs that bugs me but they are still a great pair of TW that fit great too. 

I hope to get my Sennheiser's back soon as I sent them in for repair as the case broke which is common in the 1st iteration. hopefully get them back next week.

Curious to hear more review/thoughts of the Technics, they have been a great brand that's been around for awhile. I have some Technic floor speakers in my bar hooked to a Onkyo receiver that I bought in 1994 and still enjoy listening to.


----------



## Tommy C

I’m really curious about the UE Fit as I always liked Ultimate Ears. 
https://custom.ultimateears.com/products/ue-fits?variant=32895095210041


----------



## dweaver (Dec 27, 2020)

Aside from the dreaded MMCX issues I really liked the UE900, great sounding IEM.

This TW model looks very interesting. If it seemed a bit more thought out I would be tempted, but it feels a bit to much like a 1.0 product for me and I have concerns the trade offs will outweigh the advances.


----------



## C_Lindbergh (Dec 27, 2020)

Tommy C said:


> I’m really curious about the UE Fit as I always liked Ultimate Ears.
> https://custom.ultimateears.com/products/ue-fits?variant=32895095210041



They seem really interesting, but such a god damn waste that there isn't any ambient mode... It's pretty much a deal breaker for me if a TWS that cost over 150$ doesn't feature an ambient mode.

Early reviews back in October also complained that the control scheme was very limited, apparently you could only have 2 different tap actions. If it's still the case months later it's frankly quite ridiculous, especially at the price range.

" Touch controls are limited to a double tap on each side, or two options total "

https://www.engadget.com/ue-fits-review-123038103.html



I do however hope that the availability will improve, can't wait to read reviews, the UE fits are quite unique in this sea of TWS earbuds.

The next itteriation could be really interesting if they fix all the basics.


----------



## Tommy C

C_Lindbergh said:


> They seem really interesting, but such a god damn waste that there isn't any ambient mode... It's pretty much a deal breaker for me if a TWS that cost over 150$ doesn't feature an ambient mode.
> 
> Early reviews back in October also complained that the control scheme was very limited, apparently you could only have 2 different tap actions. If it's still the case months later it's frankly quite ridiculous, especially at the price range.
> 
> ...


 Agreed completely. I hope the V2 will also have better form factor. ANC isn’t really important to me if the seal is good, which based on the custom fit it probably is but hear-through would be nice.


----------



## Tommy C

dweaver said:


> Aside from the dreaded MMCX issues I really liked the UE900, great sounding IEM.
> 
> This TW model looks very interesting. If it seemed a bit more thought out I would be tempted, but it feels a bit to much like a 1.0 product for me and I have concerns the trade offs will outweigh the advances.


 Same here. Had multiple pairs of UE900 and 900s boy they sounded nice but MMCX sucked badly and I was babying my pairs like no other set of IEMs.


----------



## Slater

There seems to be some Jabra Elite 75Ts on Aliexpress.

Anyone seen or tried these?

!https://a.aliexpress.com/_msnBrK1
https://a.aliexpress.com/_mtK55bL


----------



## Canabuc

howdy said:


> That sucks that the Sonys are giving you issues now. Mine work great and sound amazing and hopefully stay that way. In my collection of True wireless the Sony and Sennheiser are still my favorite. I also have the LP2s and like the sound but there is something artificial that I hear in the highs that bugs me but they are still a great pair of TW that fit great too.
> 
> I hope to get my Sennheiser's back soon as I sent them in for repair as the case broke which is common in the 1st iteration. hopefully get them back next week.
> 
> Curious to hear more review/thoughts of the Technics, they have been a great brand that's been around for awhile. I have some Technic floor speakers in my bar hooked to a Onkyo receiver that I bought in 1994 and still enjoy listening to.


Even without the trouble , I don't like having to choose between what I can access when using the touch pads. I have to give up ANC control or volume or track control when all my other buds have devised ways to access everything.


----------



## Canabuc

On another note I messaged Amazon and they seem to have lost my order. They are re sending but now won't arrive until Wednesday and I won't be around to receive them so likely another week or so.....


----------



## bladefd

C_Lindbergh said:


> Anyone else looking to order the Melomania touch? Hopefully they will be my last purchase of TWS until the next gen with Bluetooth LE
> 
> For the price the Melomania touch seems fantastic, I don't really care that they lack ANC since most IEMS fit's my ears perfectly thus creating a great seal.
> 
> I'm just wondering about the whole Brexit situation, I hope there wont be a delay if you wanna order them from any EU store like Amazon.de.



Yup, I plan on getting that. I plan on keeping either that or the Sennheiser cx400bt.

I also received the Symbio f eartips yesterday. They feel very soft. Not sure how it sounds - I put them on my cx400bt but case is currently charging. Will try tonight after nfl sunday.


----------



## chinmie

Slater said:


> There seems to be some Jabra Elite 75Ts on Aliexpress.
> 
> Anyone seen or tried these?
> 
> ...



seems like knockoffs, so definitely no app too. at that price it's better to buy some Soundpeats or Fiil Lite


----------



## Slater

chinmie said:


> seems like knockoffs, so definitely no app too. at that price it's better to buy some Soundpeats or Fiil Lite



In the review pictures, they seem legit. The one seller is called factory outlet or something. Perhaps they are B stock?


----------



## Tommy C

Slater said:


> There seems to be some Jabra Elite 75Ts on Aliexpress.
> 
> Anyone seen or tried these?
> 
> ...



It would be more like this. It’s a cheap Chinese knock-off


----------



## dweaver

Interesting, I pulled out my Fiio F5's and had a quick listen to Norah Jones, I Don't Know Why and then did a quick comparison using the AZ70.

Detail retrieval between the 2 are very similar. But vocals were sharper on the F5 hitting my tolerance. Treble from cymbals was slightly more relaxed on the F5 but lost some of the airiness as compared to the AZ70. Bass lines were slightly more present on the AZ70.

Over all the F5 was just a bit to shouty for me which is how I feel about the IEM in general while the AZ70 just felt more relaxed and natural. So its definitely in that neutral/natural audiophile zone.

Volume on both IEM was set to slightly more than 1/3 one click from 1/2 volume.


----------



## EvilJesus

bladefd said:


> Can you adjust ANC levels by their touch controls? I would probably turn ANC off and never use it. I'm not a huge fan of diddling around with the touch controls. Often I can't even remember what taps do what (I am kind of new to TWS earphones as well, just getting my first one 2 weeks ago). I just open up settings to adjust volume out of habit from using wired IEMs.


The MW07 GO has neither ANC nor touch controls. Another plus for me seeing I'm not a big fan of either.


----------



## FYLegend (Dec 27, 2020)

Seems like the Earfun Free Pro is designed to drain the earbuds themselves before the case is completely depleted. They're not charging but the case LED is flashing the low battery warning (same situation as the TaoTronics 94). Seems like the last 5% is used for the blinking LED but I'd much rather it charge the buds like on the Galaxy Buds+. It's taking forever but I want to drain the case completely so I can confirm whether the buds can be powered off without a a powered case. Seems like the last 5% is used for the blinking LED but I'd much rather it charge the buds like on the Galaxy Buds+. If I take them out individually, the buds themselves are still showing 20% or 40% left according to my phone's Bluetooth screen but both are giving me the low battery warning.

EDIT: I also noticed that the Earfun Free Pros try to be very accurate in their battery percentage on my phone's Bluetooth screen, it will show something like 92% left which can drop fairly quickly. However, re-opening them will generate a different number. Maybe this is a BT5.2 feature but is not optimized for my BT5.0 devices?

Aside from Samsung's devices, is there any more TWS with a seamless connection function? I find it tedious having to go into Bluetooth settings to disconnect a device and then pair it to another. While not as convenient as multipoint, Samsung's implementation allows you to instantly disconnect from one device to pair to another. The catch is that it will stubbornly auto-connect to the second device you power on. I turned it off because the Buds+ are pretty useless sound-wise on Windows 10 anyways.


----------



## bladefd

EvilJesus said:


> The MW07 GO has neither ANC nor touch controls. Another plus for me seeing I'm not a big fan of either.



Thanks, but I ended up not getting the MW07. I was actually asking about the MW07 Plus, which was on sale for $170 in costco last week. Didn't like the idea of having no app


----------



## howdy

Slater said:


> In the review pictures, they seem legit. The one seller is called factory outlet or something. Perhaps they are B stock?


On Reddit there has been lots of people who had a lot of issues come to find out they are fake. One person on Reddit shows pictures of the fake next to the real and there close to real looking.


----------



## Slater

howdy said:


> On Reddit there has been lots of people who had a lot of issues come to find out they are fake. One person on Reddit shows pictures of the fake next to the real and there close to real looking.



Ah ok. Thanks for the info. I had a suspicion that they may have been fake, but you never know.


----------



## Tommy C

Slater said:


> Ah ok. Thanks for the info. I had a suspicion that they may have been fake, but you never know.



The price is too low for it to be legit. If it seems too good to be true it probably is.


----------



## soullinker20

been away in a month or so.. surprised many have bought the technics az70. been enjoying them since august
no regrets buying them  and chose them over mtw2 and sold my xm3. they have a very nice balance sound and find them complete package in terms of sound and functionalities.


----------



## dweaver

Glad you mentioned both those models. I assumed the AZ70 was as good as at the least but could not afford to by either of the other two to find out. I agree is is a complete package feature and sound wise.


----------



## soullinker20

I would say AZ70 and Xm3 are equal when it comes to overall usage. Had the xm3 for months I tried to like them and be content with it. too big and obtrusive for me, fit is kinda weird but no issues. sound is ok and i find it dark. i preferred my mtw's imaging and soundstage but the battery drain issue killed it. 
i'm glad the az70s were released right on time when I was looking for another tws that's more on 1.function 2.sound
I was leaning towards mtw2 because I like sennheiser sound and base from the impression/reviews I thought i might not like it.

I don't have any experience with any of panasonic/technics stuff but I do trust it since it's a japanese brand that has high quality.
Now I realize that I'm using more japanese brand lolz
TWS: technics AZ70
IEM: fitear to go 335, ex1000, Z1R
headphone (casual): XM3


Sound wise the AZ70 has a warm open sound and can handle everything I throw at it. I have lower expectations on the az70 as a tws and didn't expect it to be really that good.
I like the tonality over mtw and xm3. vocals are a treat on this rich, lush, detailed, warmish and have more brilliancy. 
phone calls are very good better than mtw and wh-1000xm3.
ANC is very good, didn't find it lacking after coming from wf-1000xm3. fit is very good too and i can wear them for hours. the mtw and xm3 hurts after 40 mins.
technically, soundstaging still belongs to the sennheiser.


----------



## Aerosphere

Honoree seems nice.


----------



## Canabuc

dweaver said:


> Interesting, I pulled out my Fiio F5's and had a quick listen to Norah Jones, I Don't Know Why and then did a quick comparison using the AZ70.
> 
> Detail retrieval between the 2 are very similar. But vocals were sharper on the F5 hitting my tolerance. Treble from cymbals was slightly more relaxed on the F5 but lost some of the airiness as compared to the AZ70. Bass lines were slightly more present on the AZ70.
> 
> ...


Question about technics. I have read some reviews on Amazon that say the case discharges with buds in them such that if not used for several days the case and buds will be empty. This was an issue with 1st gen MTW. Have you noticed this? I love how my L2P or Samsung buds will still be at full charge even if not touched for many days.


----------



## Canabuc

Slater said:


> In the review pictures, they seem legit. The one seller is called factory outlet or something. Perhaps they are B stock?


These seems to be some red on the microphone holes on that set of buds. Smells fake to me


----------



## bladefd (Dec 28, 2020)

soullinker20 said:


> I would say AZ70 and Xm3 are equal when it comes to overall usage. Had the xm3 for months I tried to like them and be content with it. too big and obtrusive for me, fit is kinda weird but no issues. sound is ok and i find it dark. i preferred my mtw's imaging and soundstage but the battery drain issue killed it.
> i'm glad the az70s were released right on time when I was looking for another tws that's more on 1.function 2.sound
> I was leaning towards mtw2 because I like sennheiser sound and base from the impression/reviews I thought i might not like it.
> 
> ...



Pretty much how I saw the AZ70 vs cx400bt, which have same drivers & sound signature as mtw2. Sennheiser has better soundstage and I felt it had slightly better bass quality. I don't use anc or had any plans of using them for any commuting so I returned the AZ70 in place of sound quality.

If I wanted features or full package, I would have definitely kept the az70. There is no way I would spend 80 bucks more on mtw2 over the az70 for the full package, but at the same time, I wasn't about to spend 50 bucks more on az70 over cx400bt if cx400bt had slightly better sound & I didn't need anc/ipx4/ambient mode. Now if az70 had same cost as mtw2 then it would have been much more challenging.

I agree with you on eartips. Sennheiser are uncomfortable. I have been searching for new tips. I got the symbio f, but they don't fit the cx400bt case... So comfortable too but I am not removing eartips every night to charge and I am not cutting a hole into the case.. The search continues for an eartips :/


----------



## dweaver

Canabuc said:


> Question about technics. I have read some reviews on Amazon that say the case discharges with buds in them such that if not used for several days the case and buds will be empty. This was an issue with 1st gen MTW. Have you noticed this? I love how my L2P or Samsung buds will still be at full charge even if not touched for many days.


Wow I honestly have not stopped using these long enough to experience that issue. Sure as hell hope not though. Hmmmm might have to consider using a different IEM for a few days to see. Hate that idea though because these sound so good. In the end I will have to live with it if they do though as I can not return them.

But I wonder as I did own the MTW and their battery issue was fairly obvious even when I used them daily because the battery in the case would mysteriously be dead when I knew it should have a charge still. But I had not experienced that with the AZ70 yet.


----------



## CocaCola15

C_Lindbergh said:


> Anyone else looking to order the Melomania touch? Hopefully they will be my last purchase of TWS until the next gen with Bluetooth LE
> 
> For the price the Melomania touch seems fantastic, I don't really care that they lack ANC since most IEMS fit's my ears perfectly thus creating a great seal.
> 
> I'm just wondering about the whole Brexit situation, I hope there wont be a delay if you wanna order them from any EU store like Amazon.de.


I just pulled the trigger. I am a major M1 fan, with their foam tips. I was just out with the M1s and it's been awhile (inclement weather) and damn, I love their sound. I always favored foam over silicone and in fact had a HF friend ship me a box (5 pair) of the somewhat larger (but not much larger) foamies from CA. They are durable as can be, wash them a bit in hydrogen peroxide and fit as new. 

Having said that, I ordered a second pair of M1s from Amazon at $79, for when my current pair run out of battery usage. But returned them because I HAD to sample the M Touch. So I pre-ordered it today, using my Amazon Store Card (6 months to pay, no interest). If CA has managed to improve the M1 sound (the design already looks like it would be an improvement) then I'lll be thrilled with the purchase.


----------



## CocaCola15

Phil2020 said:


> My first thoughts of the cambridge audio melomania buds that I got for Xmas.....
> 1. My biggest wrorry about these were if they would stay in my ears, as alot of reviews saying they wont stay in. But They fit in my ears perfectly even with the silicon tips, plus because they are round buds you can twist these inside you're ears to make the seal even better. And they are very comfy too.
> 2. These are quite warm sounding with enough bass but not over powering. And these do sound so, so much better than the airpods, as the airpods sound very tinny in comparisite
> 3. They could be loader but they go plenty loud enough for me
> ...


Major M1 fan here. Volume is never going to cause damage, but loud enough for me. By comparison, the Sonys never got loud enough.


----------



## C_Lindbergh (Dec 28, 2020)

CocaCola15 said:


> I just pulled the trigger. I am a major M1 fan, with their foam tips. I was just out with the M1s and it's been awhile (inclement weather) and damn, I love their sound. I always favored foam over silicone and in fact had a HF friend ship me a box (5 pair) of the somewhat larger (but not much larger) foamies from CA. They are durable as can be, wash them a bit in hydrogen peroxide and fit as new.
> 
> Having said that, I ordered a second pair of M1s from Amazon at $79, for when my current pair run out of battery usage. But returned them because I HAD to sample the M Touch. So I pre-ordered it today, using my Amazon Store Card (6 months to pay, no interest). If CA has managed to improve the M1 sound (the design already looks like it would be an improvement) then I'lll be thrilled with the purchase.



Yea many improvements spec wise for the Melomania Touch:
* Android/IOS app
* EQ
*Ambient mode
*Qualcomm TWS+
*Newer BT-chip
*Total battery (just 5 hours extra tho)

Also the design seems so much better, hopefully the SQ will improve as well.


----------



## bladefd

CocaCola15 said:


> I just pulled the trigger. I am a major M1 fan, with their foam tips. I was just out with the M1s and it's been awhile (inclement weather) and damn, I love their sound. I always favored foam over silicone and in fact had a HF friend ship me a box (5 pair) of the somewhat larger (but not much larger) foamies from CA. They are durable as can be, wash them a bit in hydrogen peroxide and fit as new.
> 
> Having said that, I ordered a second pair of M1s from Amazon at $79, for when my current pair run out of battery usage. But returned them because I HAD to sample the M Touch. So I pre-ordered it today, using my Amazon Store Card (6 months to pay, no interest). If CA has managed to improve the M1 sound (the design already looks like it would be an improvement) then I'lll be thrilled with the purchase.



If you don't mind me asking, where did you preorder the Touch from? I am looking forward to ordering them myself but don't see it listed on Amazon.


----------



## jasonb

So AirPods Pro with Headphone Accommodations set to “balanced tone” with Comply tips sounds really good to my ears. The “balanced tone” setting with the stock tips is just a hair on the bright side for my taste, but the Comply tips tame the brightness just a hair and add some impact to the bass making the frequency response for my preference really well.


----------



## bladefd

I received the Sony wf-1000xm3 just today. Been trying them before doing a comparison to the Sennheiser cx400bt and Technics AZ70 over next couple days.

Uhhhh, I fully charged them and updated. They lasted only around 3hrs with DSEE. 3 hours?? Maybe even less than that.. More like 2.5hrs. That's not good. I think I had ANC on, which it is by default. Well, they are dead now and on charge. I will have to be much more mindful when I try them again. I guess I will keep DSEE turned off from now on. I'm surprised nobody else mentioned the battery life (or I overlooked it). That's a huge bummer, but it's okay I guess.

Can't adjust ANC levels or even turn it on/off in the Sony app, which I find disappointing. No aptx, which I knew it didn't have so not surprising.


----------



## FYLegend

jant71 said:


> Already ComfoBuds Pro...
> 
> " The 1MORE ComfoBuds Pro True Wireless In-Ear Headphones include great sound, fast charging capabilities, a gaming mode, an upgraded Bluetooth chip and 1MORE’s QuietMax Active Noise Cancellation technology suite which includes ANC, Wind Noise Reduction and a Pass-Through modes. This classic water-drop design showcases how product form doesn’t need to come second to functionality. Housed in this sleek earbud casing is a 13.4mm dynamic driver for pro level audio replication, IR sensors for easy pause/play and battery lasting up to 7 hours on a single playback. "


Yikes those alien stems. Though I generally dislike stems, I don't mind wide futuristic stems like Libratone Track Air, Edifier NB2 or protruding housings like the WF-1000XM3 or 1More ANC (which are really just glorified stems).  Though these look futuristic they seem a bit too extreme.

Appearances aside, I really hope they address some of the quirks of the 1More Dual Driver ANC and maybe bring in some of its features. I'm a bit wary at their claims of battery life as the 1More ANC is rated at 5 hours with ANC or 6 hours without, but many users have reported much lower. I notice the battery reaches about 30-40% after about 3.5 hours. The manual says it will automatically switch master buds after 30% but I haven't seen this happening yet (though granted I only use them this long on Windows 10).


----------



## cresny

bladefd said:


> I received the Sony wf-1000xm3 just today. Been trying them before doing a comparison to the Sennheiser cx400bt and Technics AZ70 over next couple days.
> 
> Uhhhh, I fully charged them and updated. They lasted only around 3hrs with DSEE. 3 hours?? Maybe even less than that.. More like 2.5hrs. That's not good. I think I had ANC on, which it is by default. Well, they are dead now and on charge. I will have to be much more mindful when I try them again. I guess I will keep DSEE turned off from now on. I'm surprised nobody else mentioned the battery life (or I overlooked it). That's a huge bummer, but it's okay I guess.
> 
> Can't adjust ANC levels or even turn it on/off in the Sony app, which I find disappointing. No aptx, which I knew it didn't have so not surprising.



Yes, DSEE is a known battery drainer and to my ears (and most others) has a barely perceptible effect. About the ANC, there is a slider that allows multiple fine adjustments to Ambient Sound Control as well as just turning it off. Unlike others, Sony has ANC as the extreme end of ambient sound adjustment rather than a Low/Medium/High ANC.


----------



## joel96

I've made a rough comparison list for some of the TWS IEMs I've run across in the last ten pages of comments in this thread, as well as some that I found on Qualcomm's website.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/15FeK9jf98TWc7If9UCiJNBoLPujY7f3cdqEDVe7C5p4/edit?usp=sharing The document is set to commenting by anyone who can view it.
My initial search has focused on Qualcomm's TWS, TWS Plus/TWS+, TWS Mirroring (which, as I mention in the document, isn't exactly a feature marketed explicitly by several products, but I assume it's either a form of TWS+ or a successor to it; please correct me if I'm wrong) and aptx support. AFAIK, aptx adaptive is the latest version of the codec, but most products will simply label their Qualcomm codec support as having "aptx" without going into any detail on which version it is; for those cases, I've assumed that only the original aptx version is supported, and not the later LL, HD, or adaptive versions. I'm mentioning the topic of Qualcomm features because it's come up multiple times in the last ten pages and seems to be an easy way of differentiating "old tech" from "new tech" when it comes to TWS earbuds, and not because I feel like I have to have it.

I did look at some of the recommendations mentioned in the last few pages of this thread, but rejected several. Some headphones hold up well during examination by experts, but when scaled up to mass production, certain issues become proportionally more important: customer service, quality assurance, and returns. There's overlap between each of those things. I've seen people mention products falling apart a few hours after arrival, widespread QA issues and bugs that companies refuse to fix, revolving door RMAs, audio performance that fails to live up to press hype, bad physical design or other inherent design flaws, and returns that are slowly processed or end up being a hassle. It's an early spreadsheet, so I've just skipped some of that documentation for now.

I can't say for certain exactly what I'm looking for, but I've got a few ideas with my budget and scope of usage. My budget is between $50 and, say, $200, but I think given what I've seen so far I don't expect to spend more than about $170. The usage is mainly going to be at work in a quiet office environment, at home with my desktop (which can get noisy with fans running and with my keyboard which has Cherry Brown MX switches, which is louder than my PC), at home in my kitchen (with water running or food sizzling), and maybe in my car with the engine and the hvac running. Four to eight hours of battery life is really all I need, especially considering how quickly cases can recharge most of the ones I've seen. They absolutely must work with my PC (which has Bluetooth) and my Android.

The reason I'm getting TWS at all is because my wired JVC IEMs got damaged beyond repair due to constantly snagging the cables on chair arms, desks, things I was carrying, etc.. The cables on mine weren't designed to detach, so the stress broke the wire and insulation near the earbuds. Not to mention it hurt my ears every time it did that. I'll be remiss if I don't switch to wireless IEMs and never look back.

I don't really listen to music or watch movies while wearing headphones, preferring instead to use my speaker system for that. What I do listen to on my Galaxy S10+, which has aptx HD (but not adaptive) support, is YouTube videos, anime from the 1970s to today (most of which doesn't have spectacular audio on Crunchyroll anyway), Twitch, indie art or gaming streamers, talking back and forth on Discord, listening to many, many podcasts, and a few audiobooks. The majority of the things I listen to don't have the most professional audio engineering or high-quality mics. While I do have mild tinnitus and myoclonus of my ear drums, I am capable of telling higher quality audio from lower quality audio. My situation is just that the landscape of the presenters and media I consume are for the most part on a different plateau of audio production than what most users of head-fi might appreciate. Doesn't mean the headphones have to suck, it just means that without high-quality source audio, something like for example the Falcon Pros would have a less impactful ROI than the lower-quality and lower-priced Falcon 2.


----------



## chinmie

bladefd said:


> I received the Sony wf-1000xm3 just today. Been trying them before doing a comparison to the Sennheiser cx400bt and Technics AZ70 over next couple days.
> 
> Uhhhh, I fully charged them and updated. They lasted only around 3hrs with DSEE. 3 hours?? Maybe even less than that.. More like 2.5hrs. That's not good. I think I had ANC on, which it is by default. Well, they are dead now and on charge. I will have to be much more mindful when I try them again. I guess I will keep DSEE turned off from now on. I'm surprised nobody else mentioned the battery life (or I overlooked it). That's a huge bummer, but it's okay I guess.
> 
> Can't adjust ANC levels or even turn it on/off in the Sony app, which I find disappointing. No aptx, which I knew it didn't have so not surprising.



i prefer dsee off.. the treble sounded fizzier to me when on.


----------



## Thesonofkrypton

bladefd said:


> I received the Sony wf-1000xm3 just today. Been trying them before doing a comparison to the Sennheiser cx400bt and Technics AZ70 over next couple days.
> 
> Uhhhh, I fully charged them and updated. They lasted only around 3hrs with DSEE. 3 hours?? Maybe even less than that.. More like 2.5hrs. That's not good. I think I had ANC on, which it is by default. Well, they are dead now and on charge. I will have to be much more mindful when I try them again. I guess I will keep DSEE turned off from now on. I'm surprised nobody else mentioned the battery life (or I overlooked it). That's a huge bummer, but it's okay I guess.
> 
> Can't adjust ANC levels or even turn it on/off in the Sony app, which I find disappointing. No aptx, which I knew it didn't have so not surprising.



You must have an issue with yours, mine goes on for hours more with ANC on.


----------



## Canabuc

Thesonofkrypton said:


> You must have an issue with yours, mine goes on for hours more with ANC on.


Newest firmware allows equalizer, ANC and DSEE on at same time.. Each one hits battery life. So best to turn off DSEE then you will see 6 hours


----------



## howdy

bladefd said:


> I received the Sony wf-1000xm3 just today. Been trying them before doing a comparison to the Sennheiser cx400bt and Technics AZ70 over next couple days.
> 
> Uhhhh, I fully charged them and updated. They lasted only around 3hrs with DSEE. 3 hours?? Maybe even less than that.. More like 2.5hrs. That's not good. I think I had ANC on, which it is by default. Well, they are dead now and on charge. I will have to be much more mindful when I try them again. I guess I will keep DSEE turned off from now on. I'm surprised nobody else mentioned the battery life (or I overlooked it). That's a huge bummer, but it's okay I guess.
> 
> Can't adjust ANC levels or even turn it on/off in the Sony app, which I find disappointing. No aptx, which I knew it didn't have so not surprising.


I have the DSEE on and NC on all the time and mine have never been anywhere near the 2.5 to 3 hours. I usually get 5/6 hours easily. If they stay like that I would get a new pair. Also, I never really heard of battery issues with the XM3S.


----------



## cresny

howdy said:


> I have the DSEE on and NC on all the time and mine have never been anywhere near the 2.5 to 3 hours. I usually get 5/6 hours easily. If they stay like that I would get a new pair. Also, I never really heard of battery issues with the XM3S.


5/6 hours is an outlier. Most report that with DSEE on they discharge much more quickly, around 3 hours. That's about what I get.


----------



## Thesonofkrypton

Have also ordered the CA Melomania Touch today (in white), hope they sound as good as they look! Fit looks like a winner.


----------



## howdy

cresny said:


> 5/6 hours is an outlier. Most report that with DSEE on they discharge much more quickly, around 3 hours. That's about what I get.


I'll test it this weekend to get a more accurate time. I'm not sure if I did that newer update as I have not seen one in awhile.


----------



## Mouseman

It looks like Soundcore/Anker is going to put out something with ANC in early January. I wish it was a new L2P, but it looks like a stem form factor. People say they've seen 4 different colors on the site. Wonder if it will have ambient?


----------



## bladefd

Canabuc said:


> Newest firmware allows equalizer, ANC and DSEE on at same time.. Each one hits battery life. So best to turn off DSEE then you will see 6 hours



Problem solved with dsee off. With dsee, nc, and equalizer, I got bit over 2.5hrs. I turned off dsee and nc off, battery life went down to like only 68% in 3hrs of use. Definitely muuuuuch better than before.

Now comes the hard part.. These sound awesome. Even without aptx, these have lower latency than the sennheiser in my estimation. Sony sound almost as good except in soundstage. Just have to EQ them to sound great, meanwhile sennheiser are great out of the box. Will do more in depth comparison.


----------



## bladefd

howdy said:


> I have the DSEE on and NC on all the time and mine have never been anywhere near the 2.5 to 3 hours. I usually get 5/6 hours easily. If they stay like that I would get a new pair. Also, I never really heard of battery issues with the XM3S.



I don't think you have dsee on. Try it with dsee on along with EQ and nc. I will be shocked if you break 3hrs.

You don't need dsee tbh. I couldn't tell the difference sonically. I tried for 10 minutes going on and off late yesterday with music running. I couldn't tell you what the difference was tbh.


----------



## clerkpalmer

Anyone taking a try with the Noble Falcon Pro?  $329 is steep, no ANC and those long stems hurt my ears just looking at them.  That said, 2BA + 1DD with some Wizard pixie dust and they probably will deliver a true audiophile grade experience.  Trying to come up with a good reason to buy them.


----------



## rhsauer

Mouseman said:


> It looks like Soundcore/Anker is going to put out something with ANC in early January. I wish it was a new L2P, but it looks like a stem form factor. People say they've seen 4 different colors on the site. Wonder if it will have ambient?


I'm also really excited about these.  On the Anker forum on Reddit a moderator suggests these are the Liberty 2 Pro's with ANC.  I suppose they could have the L2P's Coaxial Acoustic Architecture, but in a different form factor (better for phone calls) and with ANC -- that would work for me.  Soundcore has a good record of punching above their weight (price-wise).  They're spending a lot building up excitement for these.  The big reveal is January 12 at noon eastern time.


----------



## Mouseman

rhsauer said:


> I'm also really excited about these.  On the Anker forum on Reddit a moderator suggests these are the Liberty 2 Pro's with ANC.  I suppose they could have the L2P's Coaxial Acoustic Architecture, but in a different form factor (better for phone calls) and with ANC -- that would work for me.  Soundcore has a good record of punching above their weight (price-wise).  They're spending a lot building up excitement for these.  The big reveal is January 12 at noon eastern time.


I love the sound of my L2Ps, but if they were in a slightly more ergonomic form factor, I'd jump at them (depending on the price and features). They got my money on the new headphones,and those things are a great value with really great sound. So take my money already, Soundcore!


----------



## jant71 (Dec 29, 2020)

clerkpalmer said:


> Anyone taking a try with the Noble Falcon Pro?  $329 is steep, no ANC and those long stems hurt my ears just looking at them.  That said, 2BA + 1DD with some Wizard pixie dust and they probably will deliver a true audiophile grade experience.  Trying to come up with a good reason to buy them.



Wait them out and they will drop the price. At least they will go to the $279 they were for the pre-order. Just the usual seeing if they get that price. If we don't pay it it will drop soon enough esp. when CES is announcing new stuff and all this other stuff is getting talked about.

Or the new Aviot PNK version with Pierre Nakano tuning their triple hybrid which has a better shape. Should be able to get that one for ~$200 shipped. Though I am debating the normal version and tune myself with MSEB on my Hidiz. Same drivers, still adaptive capable so maybe save $50.


----------



## clerkpalmer

jant71 said:


> Wait them out and they will drop the price. At least they will go to the $279 they were for the pre-order. Just the usual seeing if they get that price. If we don't pay it it will drop soon enough esp. when CES is announcing new stuff and all this other stuff is getting talked about.
> 
> Or the new Aviot PNK version with Pierre Nakano tuning their triple hybrid which has a better shape. Should be able to get that one for ~$200 shipped. Though I am debating the normal version and tune myself with MSEB on my Hidiz. Same drivers, still adaptive capable so maybe save $50.


Yeah I swear I read the price was supposed to be 250. 329 plus tax and shipping is tough. I'm on the fence. My gut tells me I'll be disappointed.


----------



## CocaCola15

bladefd said:


> If you don't mind me asking, where did you preorder the Touch from? I am looking forward to ordering them myself but don't see it listed on Amazon.


Direct from Cambridge Audio US site
https://www.cambridgeaudio.com/usa/en


----------



## clerkpalmer

CocaCola15 said:


> Direct from Cambridge Audio US site
> https://www.cambridgeaudio.com/usa/en


Definitely interested to hear how these sound. They nailed the design.


----------



## jant71

Heard from someone these guys are still around and saw these are coming... https://www.metalure.co/category/wireless-earphone


----------



## bladefd (Dec 29, 2020)

CocaCola15 said:


> Direct from Cambridge Audio US site
> https://www.cambridgeaudio.com/usa/en



Thanks, they must have opened up pre-order just recently. 

Makes me wonder if CA's return policy is as great as Amazon's. I guess I can wait until January 1 to see if it shows up on Amazon. If not then just buy from there.


----------



## DigDub

Earfun free pro. Subwoofer-rish bassy sound with clear highs and slightly recessed mids. The case is tiny and is still able to accommodate most tips comfortably. It has wireless charging and real usb-c port too.


----------



## dj24

For anyone Interested the *Bomaker Sifi II is currently $15.90* before taxes.  You can use coupon code *ZA9L3M9K *at checkout or clip the 60% from the main page prior to checkout.

Here is Bart's review for reference if you need help deciding..


----------



## Dcell7

Moondrop joining the TWS game

https://m.nl.aliexpress.com/item/1005001960638454.html


----------



## dweaver

I spent my evening comparing 4 full size wired headphones.


> I then did some quick A/B/C/D testing between the M100, HE400I, Night Hawk, and Sony Z7. Using Led Zeppelin - In the Evening and Interstellar - Cornfield Chase.
> 
> The results were very interesting. None of these headphones could reach down into the sub-bass to make themselves felt in the Cornfield Chase with the Night Hawk slightly besting the rest, followed by the M100 and Z7 being about the same, then the He400i and distant 4th. Outside of that bass moment the M100 held its own well having decent detail retrieval that rivaled the 400i and the Night Hawks surprising the Z7 was the least engaging of the 4 headphones and the 400i while lacking that bass was the most engaging followed by the M100.
> 
> Switching up to In the Evening the 400i was bass light enough you could hardly tell there was a bass drone at the beginning of the song but sounded wonderfull once the song really kicked in. The Z7 and Night Hawk both managed the drone better than the M100 but neither sounded good for the rest of the song. The M100 handled the drone the worst but overall was second only to the 400i due to how it handled the rest of the of the song.


I found myself wondering how the AZ70 would compare. Surprising it came out on top for both songs. While it could not compete in the sound stage department for obvious reasons I was surprised that it bested all 4 for sub-bass and was tonally more like the HE400i than the bass oriented headphones. Just confirmed why I like the AZ70 so much.


----------



## bladefd

Anyone know where Sennheiser earbuds are manufactured? Thought maybe someone had read it somewhere.

Trying to actively avoid things made in China/Russia (and Iran/NK but they don't make anything I know). I know it's a hard thing to do, but I thought I would try anyways, especially for electronics & expensive things. I spent 10 mins googling, but all I got is Sennheiser makes their high-end stuff in Ireland or Germany but their lower end stuff is China. Nothing on earbuds, but if it's China.....

Sony earbuds are made in Singapore (designed in Japan) so that's good.


----------



## C_Lindbergh

Hmm strange that you only can pre-order the Melomania Touch from their US-website... :/ But 1 Jan is soon upon us anyway.


----------



## bladefd

dweaver said:


> I spent my evening comparing 4 full size wired headphones.
> 
> I found myself wondering how the AZ70 would compare. Surprising it came out on top for both songs. While it could not compete in the sound stage department for obvious reasons I was surprised that it bested all 4 for sub-bass and was tonally more like the HE400i than the bass oriented headphones. Just confirmed why I like the AZ70 so much.



You really think the AZ70 sounded better than upper-mid end full wired headphones?? Guessing you are referring to the MDR-Z7. I have listened to the Sony MDR-1A before. I don't remember the sound, but I remember being amazed. The MDR-Z7 is a whole step above the MDR1A afaik. Not saying I disagree because I don't know - I'm taking your word for it.

I would probably compare the MDR1A/Sony Z7 to my HD600 or DT880, but Bluetooth.. I don't know man, I don't know. I listened to the Technics & liked them a lot especially the neutral sound quality, but I didn't think to compare it to something high end like the HD600 (DT880 is not very neutral and probably not great comparison). I didn't think it would be a fair comparison.


----------



## jant71

Dcell7 said:


> Moondrop joining the TWS game
> 
> https://m.nl.aliexpress.com/item/1005001960638454.html



Gotta know what to do. Can't come into to the game this late and show you haven't done your homework and are not listening. 2021 and you release a TWS w/o volume control? Not even an under $50 budget model which would not be an excuse in early 2021 anyway. Even w/o any features like ambient to activate or VC you have to double tap for play/pause and triple tap to change tracks. I wouldn't trust the quality of the touch controls just yet either.

You see $90 and maybe interesting something to try and then...nope.


----------



## Dcell7

jant71 said:


> Gotta know what to do. Can't come into to the game this late and show you haven't done your homework and are not listening. 2021 and you release a TWS w/o volume control? Not even an under $50 budget model which would not be an excuse in early 2021 anyway. Even w/o any features like ambient to activate or VC you have to double tap for play/pause and triple tap to change tracks. I wouldn't trust the quality of the touch controls just yet either.
> 
> You see $90 and maybe interesting something to try and then...nope.


I agree but perhaps they are trying to sell with their brand name. Moondrop obviously got quite a following and have a good name in the audiophile world nowadays. Maybe it's a model to test the waters. I am not trying to defend their product. Just guessing what can be their reason to release this product.


----------



## clerkpalmer

Dcell7 said:


> I agree but perhaps they are trying to sell with their brand name. Moondrop obviously got quite a following and have a good name in the audiophile world nowadays. Maybe it's a model to test the waters. I am not trying to defend their product. Just guessing what can be their reason to release this product.



I have no idea what they are thinking with that marketing. Yikes. Moondrop makes some nice iems but these look like a joke.


----------



## Cretz42

dj24 said:


> For anyone Interested the *Bomaker Sifi II is currently $15.90* before taxes.  You can use coupon code *ZA9L3M9K *at checkout or clip the 60% from the main page prior to checkout.



Could not pass this up...


----------



## Canabuc

bladefd said:


> Problem solved with dsee off. With dsee, nc, and equalizer, I got bit over 2.5hrs. I turned off dsee and nc off, battery life went down to like only 68% in 3hrs of use. Definitely muuuuuch better than before.
> 
> Now comes the hard part.. These sound awesome. Even without aptx, these have lower latency than the sennheiser in my estimation. Sony sound almost as good except in soundstage. Just have to EQ them to sound great, meanwhile sennheiser are great out of the box. Will do more in depth comparison.



I also loved sound. What I didn't love was stock tips didn't fit. I couldn't control ANC/Ambient from buds without giving up volume control or track control.
No sweat or water resistance meaning can't use these for workouts. At that point might as well just use my L2P which sound as good


----------



## caprimulgus

rhsauer said:


> I'm also really excited about these.  On the Anker forum on Reddit a moderator suggests these are the Liberty 2 Pro's with ANC.  I suppose they could have the L2P's Coaxial Acoustic Architecture, but in a different form factor (better for phone calls) and with ANC -- that would work for me.  Soundcore has a good record of punching above their weight (price-wise).  They're spending a lot building up excitement for these.  The big reveal is January 12 at noon eastern time.



Nah, they said "Liberty *Air* 2 Pro (ANC)".

https://www.reddit.com/r/anker/comm...?utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=web2x&context=3


----------



## rhsauer

caprimulgus said:


> Nah, they said "Liberty *Air* 2 Pro (ANC)".
> 
> https://www.reddit.com/r/anker/comm...?utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=web2x&context=3


You're right.  I'm still hoping that the "2 Pro" portion of the moniker indicates they have similar technology to the Liberty 2 Pro, in addition to ANC.  It looks like they'll have a stem form factor like the Liberty Air 2, so they should be great for calls -- although I'm hoping the stems are a bit shorter, as with the APP or the Libratone Air+. I guess we'll know in a couple weeks.


----------



## bladefd (Dec 30, 2020)

Canabuc said:


> I also loved sound. What I didn't love was stock tips didn't fit. I couldn't control ANC/Ambient from buds without giving up volume control or track control.
> No sweat or water resistance meaning can't use these for workouts. At that point might as well just use my L2P which sound as good



Tbh I find them more comfortable than the cx400bt and technics AZ70. I will try the included foam tips to see how they feel.

I'm really considering keeping these and returning the cx400bt, but crap, I don't know what to do. I began writing up a review comparison and I realized I like these a lot. I think I like these more than the AZ70 and maybe even the cx400bt. I think cx400bt have better Soundstage and slightly smoother highs, but Sony is equal everywhere else (comfort is big for me too). I had to lower the bass a notch and may lower the highs a bit to get more neutral sound I prefer, but boy am I confused.. If I had the money, I would keep both, but I just can't afford to keep both (sucks to be poor! Lol). One of them has to go back end of next week. I will also be adding the British melomania touch into the mix next week.


----------



## dweaver (Dec 30, 2020)

bladefd said:


> You really think the AZ70 sounded better than upper-mid end full wired headphones?? Guessing you are referring to the MDR-Z7. I have listened to the Sony MDR-1A before. I don't remember the sound, but I remember being amazed. The MDR-Z7 is a whole step above the MDR1A afaik. Not saying I disagree because I don't know - I'm taking your word for it.
> 
> I would probably compare the MDR1A/Sony Z7 to my HD600 or DT880, but Bluetooth.. I don't know man, I don't know. I listened to the Technics & liked them a lot especially the neutral sound quality, but I didn't think to compare it to something high end like the HD600 (DT880 is not very neutral and probably not great comparison). I didn't think it would be a fair comparison.


Those are great questions and observations. So here's the thing. In regards to total detail retrieval all 4 of the wired headphones are better. In terms of sound stage they are also better. But in terms of total sound sub-bass to treble they all fall short. None of the 4 mentioned have as deep a sub-bass, 3 out of the 4 have a mid-bass hump, one is a bass light headphone.

The Z7 is an amazing headphone but it lacks sparkle and is on the darker side sound wise. But has a very good sound stage.

The Night Hawk has an even bigger sound stage with amazing 3D qualities. But is designed with a very specific philosophy regarding how music should be heard. Truth be told if a person just listened to them and allows themselves to get adjusted to the sound they are amazing. But I have to have something for portable use so I find it hard to stay in their groove.

The HE400i is an amazing brighter headphone with super speed and detail and is completely open back like the HD600. So its great in quiet environments but poor in a busy house. It also lacks big bass.

The M100 Master is something I am reviewing as part of a loaner program from Vmoda. So I can only give initial impressions. It has the largest mid-bass hump of all the headphones and is more midrange centric giving it lots of warmth but not a dark signature. Its treble is slightly rolled off but still has good detail.

The AZ70 on the other hand has most of the attributes of the HE400i in regards to tonality coupled with the ability to go deep and have warmth only when present in the song. So listening to In the Evening by Led Zeppelin the bass drone at the start of the song was fully present but not overly accentuated and the rest of the song has a typical brightness to it as Led Zeppelin preferred. Similarly the song Cornfield Chase had a bit of sub-bass rumble but the rest of the song was nimbly played.

BTW every "reason" why I like the AZ70 over the other headphones are 100% subjective and could be the very reason to like one of the other headphones more. There is nothing wrong with a dark or warm sounding headphone I just currently love a brighter sound. The odds are at some point I will want a darker sound and then I will grab one of these headphones and kick back and just enjoy .


----------



## jant71 (Dec 30, 2020)

Dcell7 said:


> I agree but perhaps they are trying to sell with their brand name. Moondrop obviously got quite a following and have a good name in the audiophile world nowadays. Maybe it's a model to test the waters. I am not trying to defend their product. Just guessing what can be their reason to release this product.



I agree it is Moondrop so people should buy it sort of thing. For their fans more than the TWS crowd in here.

Another oddity is ONKYO having TCL OEM them a set. Now a $60 off coupon which may just make them easier to take a flyer on. https://www.amazon.com/Wireless-TCL...rue+wireless+earphones&qid=1609365855&sr=8-12


----------



## howdy

Got my replacement MTW, they sent me a brand new pair! I sent them in on the 18th and my warranty was up on the 20th, close one.


----------



## Tommy C

jant71 said:


> I agree it is Moondrop so people should buy it sort of thing. For their fans more than the TWS crowd in here.
> 
> Another oddity is ONKYO having TCL OEM them a set. Now a $60 off coupon which may just make them easier to take a flyer on. https://www.amazon.com/Wireless-TCL...rue+wireless+earphones&qid=1609365855&sr=8-12



Very limited info is available online re the Onkyo and I’m predicting no app available nor ANC etc...mmm


----------



## bladefd (Dec 30, 2020)

For those with Sony wf-1000xm3, are the eartips, which have the colored stems, foam? The color-less stem eartips are silicone? Or do I have it backwards? Or are they all silicone across the board?

It's not very clear to me. I can probably dig through the manual, but thought I would ask here for quick response.

Edit: The colored stemmed eartips are definitely different material. They isolate better so my guess is they must be foam, but sound quality does drop a bit including soundstage/openness. Worth trying for a day for comparison purpose.

It seems foam gets bit muddy, almost muffled.. Regardless of whether it is with my cx400bt or Sony 1000xm3. I don't know if it is a normal phenomena with foam or if it depends on the eartip make.. Guessing it's a little of both.


----------



## go0gle

Perhaps anker are waiting for the new bluetooth LE protocols/codecs before releasing their next flagship headphone..


----------



## Canabuc (Dec 30, 2020)

My AZ70W came today. Limited time testing so far. They are definitely bulbous. Feel like Frankenstein bolts sticking out of my ears. That said they seemed comfortable. And the fit seemed better than the Sony's.

Sound wise I'm on the fence so far. They have a great clarity and find vocals and acoustic music sounds amazing.

Bass is sorely lacking. Songs that have emphasized punchy drum or bass tracks that are the focus of that part of the song are noticeably missing something on these. Jabra Samsung and the liberty 2 pro have much better base even when Was down significantly.

I have tried all the size tips and even with great seal bass is lacking.
Will give it more time but there is a missing kick to the sound.

I am hoping the elite 85t will be the winner. They are supposed to have wider soundstage and better detail than the 75t and the bass is a bit toned down.


----------



## dweaver

I had a feeling the AZ70 might be a bit to bass lite for you @Canabuc just from the way you were enjoying the WF1000XM3 sonically. I still suggest using them exclusively for a few days to give your ears and brain a chance to adjust. Also see if you can find some foam tips kicking around also try Sony hybrid tips if you have any of those handy as the help the bass and also tighten the treble a smidge. I also find the Sony more comfortable and also they hold in my ear better.


----------



## Canabuc

So far these are my brief impressions on sound only of the buds I have been testing:

L2P- once EQ properly these have powerful bass that don't bleed into the mids and great highs as well. Very good separation and soundstage. Overall closest to an over the ear sound like my P7 wireless. 9/10

GBuds+ - Very nice overall sound. Bass and sub bass are present and punch when needed but the mids and highs are more emphasized. Overall really enjoyable sound but some times especially female vocals can get a bit harsh or shouty. Separation and soundstage good bit not in same class as L2P. 8.5/10

1More ANC- Very good clean bass and low end. Very enjoyable vocals. Warmer overall sound signature than any other buds I have tested. Reminds me of my Master and dynamic headphone sound signature. Sound stage is good separation good. Some songs don't sound as good due to the warm darker tone and no but in EQ to tune. Volume is a bit lower than the rest. 8.0/10

Jabra Elite Active 75t- Powerful bass! Peaky trebles. EQ well in app and once done give a nice energetic sound and works great for modern bass heavy music. Less detail than the above buds and soundstage a bit narrower. Get loud. Overall great package in terms of features price which makes up for any slight deficiencies in sound but still 8.25/10.

Sony WF-1000XM3-
Rich powerful sound very good Bass though doesn't extend as low as Jabra or L2P. Great soundstage, loud and sound greatfrom low to high with no tones favored. Sounds great with every genre with great vocals and mids. At its current price if you only care about sound it is a great option. 9/10

Technics EAH-AZ70W- Limited testing so far. Clearest and most detailed of the group. Amazing for vocals and acoustic music. Disappoints in bass heavy music as the bass can get low in to sub bass but even EQ'd can't get the volume of Bass up to same level as all of the above buds. Surprising given the 10mm drivers. Volume is ok but a bit less than all but the 1More. 8/10


----------



## Canabuc

dweaver said:


> I had a feeling the AZ70 might be a bit to bass lite for you @Canabuc just from the way you were enjoying the WF1000XM3 sonically. I still suggest using them exclusively for a few days to give your ears and brain a chance to adjust. Also see if you can find some foam tips kicking around also try Sony hybrid tips if you have any of those handy as the help the bass and also tighten the treble a smidge. I also find the Sony more comfortable and also they hold in my ear better.


I don't consider myself a bass head. But there are parts of sound where the strut clearly intended to have some thump or punch. The Technics just don't get that across. Love their clarity and detail though.

Listen to Radiohead Ful stop first minute and ACDC Highway to hell the drums pounding early on. They just are missing their emphasis with the Technics even in bass boost our EQ with bass up by 6db.
I must admit when the ANC was turned on it actually boosted the bass to almost normal levels. If I could get it a bit higher the sound would rival the Sony and best it in areas.


----------



## bladefd

Uhhhh, had the Sony foam tip lost in the ear. Pulled earbuds out, out and I didn't see the eartip. I could still feel it in my ear. I was like "crap". Easily came out though. Jeez. 

Not a good sign lol. I can feel the foam being very loose in the ear almost like it's floating in there. Default silicone medium were good fit, but I went up to the large foam because foam tips seemed bit smaller.


----------



## assassin10000

bladefd said:


> For those with Sony wf-1000xm3, are the eartips, which have the colored stems, foam? The color-less stem eartips are silicone? Or do I have it backwards? Or are they all silicone across the board?
> 
> It's not very clear to me. I can probably dig through the manual, but thought I would ask here for quick response.
> 
> ...



They're called triple comforts and are a silicone based foam tip. So it's a yes to both lol.


----------



## dweaver (Dec 30, 2020)

Canabuc said:


> I don't consider myself a bass head. But there are parts of sound where the strut clearly intended to have some thump or punch. The Technics just don't get that across. Love their clarity and detail though.
> 
> Listen to Radiohead Ful stop first minute and ACDC Highway to hell the drums pounding early on. They just are missing their emphasis with the Technics even in bass boost our EQ with bass up by 6db.
> I must admit when the ANC was turned on it actually boosted the bass to almost normal levels. If I could get it a bit higher the sound would rival the Sony and best it in areas.


I am not normally a bass light guy and I am not a bass head either so I appreciate good bass. I also used to love a darker sound which is why I own the Z7 and Nighthawk headphones among others. Which is why the AZ70 are against my norm and why I wonder if they change over time because they don't feel as bass light as they did originally. My favorite IEM of all time (until they died) was the Sony XBA-Z5 which had huge bass and was definitely darker tonally. I also loved my Sony MDR-7550 when I had them (stupidly sold them and "upgraded" to the MDR-EX1000 which I hated due to its sibilance and shrill treble).

No I definitely like a warmer sound which is why I was tempted to buy the WF-1000XM3 myself. But the more I use the AZ70 the more I like them so either I have been changing or they have, or maybe a bit of both... But I did have to switch to different tips for sure to really appreciate them.

Music wise I listen to everything from classical, to rock like Pink Floyd, to Celtic, and a lot of acoustic oriented music. Where I notice the sub bass the most is on some electronic music I own and several soundtracks usually from guys like Hans Zimmer. I also love alot of Jazz ranging from Miles Davis to Patricia Barber.

Just fired up Highway to Hell and can hear what your saying about the kick drum I switched back and forth from the AZ70 and the Sony WF-XB700. On my AZ70 using Sony tips I get punch from the kick drum but its definitely picked up a notch or 2 on the Sony. But once that song starts to play other instruments the Sony becomes a warm mess when the first guitar (bass guitar??) starts playing whereas that guitar is taught and controlled on the AZ70. So for me with the right tips while the bass is a bit more punchy than thumping I appreciate how the AZ70 handles the rest of the instruments and have started to appreciate that tighter presentation even for the bass. perfect world world would be right between the 2 headphones truth be told...

That Radiohead song has similar results, the bass definitely sounds better on the Sony which has more thump at the beginning of the song but once the rest of the music kicks in I appreciate the AZ70 presentation more and the bass falls in line with the rest of the song for me. For kicks I switched to the supplied tips and they definitely made the bass worse and actually made the rest of the song less sharp and articulate. I then switched to the comply foam tips I have on hand and the bass started to be more like the Sony gaining a bit of thump. Switching between the Sony hybrid tip and the Foam I actually prefer the overall presentation more with the hybrid tip but the comply tip definitely adds more thump and is very close sonically so for more bass would be the better route to go.

As mentioned earlier I have owned LOTS of Sony iems so luckily have lots of hybrid tips kicking around so they are an easy switch out for me. Hopefully you some handy. If not PM me and depending on what size  you need I might be able to hook you up . Or just look for something like this,  Sony MDREX110AP/B In-Ear Headphones With Microphone (Black): Amazon.ca: Electronics, or this if you got white/silver,  Sony MDREX110AP/W In-Ear Headphones With Microphone (White): Amazon.ca: Electronics, or this  Sony MH-EX300AP in-Ear Stereo Headset Headphone Earphone for Xperia Z/ZL/V / LT36i / LT35i / LT25i: Amazon.ca: Electronics if you want a Sony IEM you might also enjoy on its own. The first 2 definitely have the hybrid tips, that last looks like it but I am not completely sure.


----------



## Canabuc (Dec 30, 2020)

dweaver said:


> I am not normally a bass light guy and I am not a bass head either so I appreciate good bass. I also used to love a darker sound which is why I own the Z7 and Nighthawk headphones among others. Which is why the AZ70 are against my norm and why I wonder if they change over time because they don't feel as bass light as they did originally. My favorite IEM of all time (until they died) was the Sony XBA-Z5 which had huge bass and was definitely darker tonally. I also loved my Sony MDR-7550 when I had them (stupidly sold them and "upgraded" to the MDR-EX1000 which I hated due to its sibilance and shrill treble).
> 
> No I definitely like a warmer sound which is why I was tempted to buy the WF-1000XM3 myself. But the more I use the AZ70 the more I like them so either I have been changing or they have, or maybe a bit of both... But I did have to switch to different tips for sure to really appreciate them.
> 
> ...


I have experienced first hand how a good deal and a different tip can affect the sound. Will look into those. I want more detail than the Jabra 75t but not at the expense of Bass. If different tips can make up the difference great otherwise the 85t or the upcoming Samsung's sound promising for good ANC with a good sound signature both bass and detail.

Also the tips that come with the XM3 there are 2 kinds. Are either the same kind? I could test with those.


----------



## dweaver

100% agree, you need to find the right IEM for you just like I did for me. Personally I love Sony hybrid tips so much I actually have bought cheap Sony iems like the ones I listed just to get new ones so don't feel bad recommending a cheap IEM just to get a set. I actually hate that Sony is slowly moving away from them.


----------



## go0gle

Good news. 

Qualcomm Announces New QCC305x SoC Series Helping to Bring Premium True Wireless Earbud Features to a Broad Range of Tiers | Qualcomm 

I don't think I will be upgrading my lp2 until I see what ships with this SoC on board.


----------



## Canabuc

dweaver said:


> 100% agree, you need to find the right IEM for you just like I did for me. Personally I love Sony hybrid tips so much I actually have bought cheap Sony iems like the ones I listed just to get new ones so don't feel bad recommending a cheap IEM just to get a set. I actually hate that Sony is slowly moving away from them.


Thanks will try some comply tips next week as I am away from home until weekend. For now will keep trying them. Maybe they will burn in a bit. Are you in latest firmware from December?


----------



## C_Lindbergh (Dec 31, 2020)

go0gle said:


> Good news.
> 
> Qualcomm Announces New QCC305x SoC Series Helping to Bring Premium True Wireless Earbud Features to a Broad Range of Tiers | Qualcomm
> 
> I don't think I will be upgrading my lp2 until I see what ships with this SoC on board.



Damn, now I'm suddenly not too sure if I'll should get the Melomania touch.

I thought Bluetooth LE was a bit more far away. Now we might get it within 6 months? 

Usually these new chips are just a minor upgrade, so I wouldn't care that much.

But Bluetooth LE is a game changer :/


----------



## dweaver

Canabuc said:


> Thanks will try some comply tips next week as I am away from home until weekend. For now will keep trying them. Maybe they will burn in a bit. Are you in latest firmware from December?


Yup I have that update applied. I initially thought it changed the sound but no else noticed it so chalk it up to my growing used to the sound and maybe the IEM changing with use.


----------



## SharkSkin

jant71 said:


> I agree it is Moondrop so people should buy it sort of thing. For their fans more than the TWS crowd in here.
> 
> Another oddity is ONKYO having TCL OEM them a set. Now a $60 off coupon which may just make them easier to take a flyer on. https://www.amazon.com/Wireless-TCL...rue+wireless+earphones&qid=1609365855&sr=8-12


Didn't even realize that Onkyo was licensing its name to TCL until I saw a pair of ANC headphones that are also made by TCL on sale. Interestingly enouch they seem to be a rebadged version of these, which are regularly $69.99 (the sale price of these).


----------



## dweaver

The Okyo look nicer, less gaudy  . But they are intriguing and do appear to be the same IEM for all intents and purposes.


----------



## jant71

It all comes down to if Onkyo was happy with them as a straight re-brand or they actually had driver/sound improvements made. Probably a straight rebrand for US than sending a model over.  Onkyo is so far down the line as far as Japanese true wireless pecking order.



C_Lindbergh said:


> Damn, now I'm suddenly not too sure if I'll should get the Melomania touch.
> 
> I thought Bluetooth LE was a bit more far away. Now we might get it within 6 months?
> 
> ...



Half a year and who knows what issues will pop up. Not like Covid is done altering things just yet. Just like I got the Victor as most likely my last one till the new standard. $150 is debatable more than the $300-ish models. Besides even with the Touch the cash would be burning a hole in your pocket 6 months. Who on Head-Fi is really satisfied for 6 months esp. with a major change becoming more available.


----------



## tiagopinto

Hi folks,

Just arrived in this thread. I usually try to go over what people are saying but 1870 pages is quite overwhelming and search isn’t helping. 

I’m looking for a pair of TW earbuds and could definitely use your help. 

My main concern, as always, is sound quality with a flat frequency response. I own the Shure Aonic 50 and absolutely love them. 

I don’t care about the app or EQ or any fancy features. Transparency mode is a must, ANC and a good battery with a Qi case would be nice.

I bought the B&O E8 Sport, Rapha Edition on an absolute impulse but still haven’t opened the box as I’m struggling to decide if I should send them back after reading about a constant hiss, connection issues, disparate volumes between buds... to me they are very beautiful but I’m more concerned if what is fed into my ears is even more beautiful.
I usually don’t like the Sony or Beats sound signature which I find to be bass bloated, or the Bose which are usually a little bland.

They are also expensive so I’m kind of hoping you may guide me between these and the AirPods Pro, the Senn MTW2... or any other you may recommend. Just like this threads apt title, too soon or are we there yet?

Thanks everyone and have a Happy 2021!


----------



## Canabuc

W


tiagopinto said:


> Hi folks,
> 
> Just arrived in this thread. I usually try to go over what people are saying but 1870 pages is quite overwhelming and search isn’t helping.
> 
> ...



From my perspective of a flat response and ambient sound are important look at the Technics AZ70W.
Sony XM3 aren't neutral out of the box bit can be EQ'd that way.
If Qi charging is a must the options are a bit more limited. Galaxy buds Plus have a nice sound and are so inexpensive right now that would be a great 2nd pair if you don't love them.


----------



## Canabuc (Dec 31, 2020)

So I know I am closing up the thread a lot lately it's just that I have been A/Bing many good earbuds at same time of the more will known models.

It is allowing me to really see the pros and cons of each.

For instance one real pro for me if the Jabras are the controls.
Some people prefer touch controls to buttons but if you live in colder climates and wear a hat or gloves good luck.
I went snow shoeing today with thick gloves and a tuque and could still click the controls without telling anything. Impossible with any touch control earbuds. And the buttons are responsive enough that they don't hurt you ears pushing them. You also can control every aspect from ANC/Ambient to track control volume control and vice assistant.
Only the Technics a slow that as well as the 1 more and the Samsung's.

I know this is Head-Fi and sound quality is king but I am assuming most of you own better quality ear it had phones then tws.
So while sound quality is important, if the buds are uncomfortable or fall out or lack water resistance for exercise or don't get loud enough or provide ambient sound then they may not be your best choice even if the sound overall is better.

This is why I am disappoints with the Sony. They fail on controls for me. They lack ip rating. They require an investment in multiple ear tips in trial and error to get a good seal. Even then they seem to want to fall out. They have a bulky case with no QI charging.

This is why Samsung and Jabra are very good options for most. They have great controls great fit small cases can be used for exercise (and even swim with Jabra active model).

L2P lack the ambient sound/ANC and full controls to be my perfect bud.

Jabra active 75t lack Qi charging in most versions and sound while very good is not the best in this category.

Technics lack Qi charging are a bit large and while sound great miss some thump at the low end or they would be a favorite.

1more has everything. Qi great case comfortable fit enjoyable sound but need tuning and a bit more volume. Maybe wavelet?

85t and upcoming galaxy buds pro intrigue me as they eachight give a detailed sound with great base and full controls with ambient sound ANC and QI charging.


Purposely didn't discuss APP because if you don't use iPhone then they are severely limited.

MTW2 and Bose to me are too expensive for this category knowing that technology and battery lifeeans that unlike a headset these have and effective life of 2 years of heavy use.


----------



## GradoSR80

This is a huge thread and interesting topic as the genre of TWS in ear buds develop.  I've been on a quest myself recently and I'm looking forward to contributing my experiences on here.

However on this post,* I'm posting to reach out/call out any other fellow Earfun Air Pro owners out there*. I recently got a pair and though I may have some things to say about it's performance later on, I found that they are extremely frustrating as they always open up the music player and begin to play music each and every time they connect to a device, I have tried this on an iphone, android, and even a blackberry and it does the same for all devices.

With my Earfun Air Pro's, as soon as the Earfun Air Pro's are paired(even on the first initial connection/setup) it immediately and automatically opens up the music player app(default music app for ios, vlc-my default for android, and default music app for blackberry) and begins to play music. In addition, after I stop the music and even close the music player, if I remove one or both of the earbuds momentarily from my ear and stick them back in my ear, the music app will re-open and begin to play music again. I could be on my home screen, or web browsing and it still does this, very annoying, very frustrating.

I'm not sure if my Earfun Air Pro's are defective, or if they sent out a batch with this glitch(I saw that one other recent reviewer on Amazon mentions this), or if this is normal. I understand that the Earfun Air Pro's are supposed to pause/resume music when taken off and put back on while listening to music.. however my issue is that it will do this even if I wasn't listening to music... and in addition, as soon as the Earfun Air Pro pair to my device it opens up the music app and begins to play music and I have to stop it.

I've tried numerous things, like resetting the connection(forgetting the device, etc.), double tapped the reset button, long hold (3+ second) reset, I also tried disabling music app notifications, and of course I've closed the music app altogether, and none of these things worked, the Earfun Air Pro still exhibit the same behavior and proceed to open the music app and plays music once connected.

I hope what I described made sense, apologies for sounding redundant as I was trying to be concise. Essentially my Earfun Air Pro's always launches the music app and begins to plays music, every time, all the time from the first connection to each subsequent temporary removal of the earbud.


----------



## dweaver (Dec 31, 2020)

> Hi folks,
> 
> Just arrived in this thread. I usually try to go over what people are saying but 1870 pages is quite overwhelming and search isn’t helping.
> 
> ...


GBUDS+ might be the only pair that had a neutral sound along with Qi as Canabuc mentioned. I own the original Gbuds and they are definitely AKG influenced. My only issue with them is that they seem a bit lifeless, hopefully the + model has fixed that.

I own the AZ70 and I agree with Canabuc about recommending them if your OK losing Qi as they are definitely more neutral than any TWS I have heard which includes Sennhieser MTW and Soundcore L2P but while being neutral they also allow for some sub-bass if present in the song and they definitely do not sound lifeless.


----------



## Thesonofkrypton

tiagopinto said:


> Hi folks,
> 
> Just arrived in this thread. I usually try to go over what people are saying but 1870 pages is quite overwhelming and search isn’t helping.
> 
> ...



How dare you put Sony and Beats in the same category lol

Out of the options you listed, AirPods Pro for connectivity, call/mic quality and fit. MTW2 for sound quality.

but the Sony would be the smart choice as you can eq the bass down with their app if you’re not a fan of a slightly elevated low end or warm sound. You also get the best anc and sound quality in the game IMO.


----------



## Thesonofkrypton

Got shipping for the Melomania Touch. Looking forward to comparing them to the Sony xm3.


----------



## assassin10000

tiagopinto said:


> Hi folks,
> 
> Just arrived in this thread. I usually try to go over what people are saying but 1870 pages is quite overwhelming and search isn’t helping.
> 
> ...



None of these will have a flat response, they are mostly in ears and will have some sort of pinna gain. Most are V shaped, some U and a couple L. 

You'll need to figure out what IEM signature works for you and then find a TWS that matches it or EQ it to your preferences.

Crinacle has a nice selection of many TWS measurements here:
https://crinacle.com/guide/tws/

Another good source is scarbir.com but no measurements.


Your other option is a TWS adapter like the Fiio UTWS3, TRN BT20S Pro, etc and your choice of IEM/Earbud. Like a Tin T2+




dweaver said:


> GBUDS+ might be the only pair that had a neutral sound along with Qi as Canabuc mentioned. I own the original Gbuds and they are definitely AKG influenced. My only issue with them is that they seem a bit lifeless, hopefully the + model has fixed that.
> 
> I own the AZ70 and I agree with Canabuc about recommending them if your OK losing Qi as they are definitely more neutral than any TWS I have heard which includes Sennhieser MTW and Soundcore L2P but while being neutral they also allow for some sub-bass if present in the song and they definitely do not sound lifeless.



Buds+ aren't flat. They are 2020 Harman. I found them a bit shouty/sibilant and needed to EQ the upper mids/lower treble a hair. Depending on the song they were also a bit thin sounding.


----------



## bladefd (Dec 31, 2020)

Thesonofkrypton said:


> Got shipping for the Melomania Touch. Looking forward to comparing them to the Sony xm3.



Very much looking forward to that comparison!


----------



## dweaver

tiagopinto said:


> Hi folks,
> 
> Just arrived in this thread. I usually try to go over what people are saying but 1870 pages is quite overwhelming and search isn’t helping.
> 
> ...





assassin10000 said:


> None of these will have a flat response, they are mostly in ears and will have some sort of pinna gain. Most are V shaped, some U and a couple L.
> 
> You'll need to figure out what IEM signature works for you and then find a TWS that matches it or EQ it to your preferences.
> 
> ...


I found the original buds a bit thin sounding as well and at times a bit shouty. I meant neutral as in they don't have a big bass response like a lot of TWS. Its funny that I found them a bit lifeless considering they are also a bit shouty but there was just something about them that missed the mark for me.

The AZ70 will similarly not be neutral as they also have a midrange/treble oriented sound. But they do have more bass than the GBuds especially in the sub-bass region and they manage the midrange and treble more adeptly as well and definitely have a larger sound stage.


----------



## Canabuc

dweaver said:


> I found the original buds a bit thin sounding as well and at times a bit shouty. I meant neutral as in they don't have a big bass response like a lot of TWS. Its funny that I found them a bit lifeless considering they are also a bit shouty but there was just something about them that missed the mark for me.
> 
> The AZ70 will similarly not be neutral as they also have a midrange/treble oriented sound. But they do have more bass than the GBuds especially in the sub-bass region and they manage the midrange and treble more adeptly as well and definitely have a larger sound stage.


Interesting because the buds plus for me have much more Bass than the Technics. If I could that amount of Bass in the AZ70 I would have my perfect sound. Technics mids are so good. Norah Jones sounds better on them than any other set.


----------



## dweaver

Lol I listen to a lot of music like Norah Jones which one of the reasons I really like the AZ70. I also love them for music that has lots of little transient sounds.


----------



## dweaver

Also I remembered I have a pair of Fender FXA2 so took a peek and sure enough they have those fancy TPE tips on them so snagged those and gave them a try. Super comfortable and they have a bit more bass than the Sony tips. They feel weird because of their design so I feel like they are loose but they don't move when I test them. Glad I remembered I had them. Beats the heck out of paying the crazy money for the tips available in Canada. I would buy another pair of Fenders before I would pay 2/3 their cost just for tips.


----------



## bladefd (Dec 31, 2020)

I finally got to testing the Sony wf-1000xm3. So here’s my comparison of it to Sennheiser cx400bt and kind of Technics AZ70. Technically I no longer have the AZ70 so I can’t do an A/B test with Sony. I can only go by memory of it from 2 weeks ago and my notes. I don’t like to go off memory so I will probably focus more on cx400bt vs Sony xm3 for that reason. I will occasionally mention AZ70, which actually has a fairly similar sound quality to Senns even though the signatures vary a bit ( posted a comparison here - Going fully Wireless IEMs. Too soon? Or are we there yet? | Page 1842 | Headphone Reviews and Discussion - Head-Fi.org (head-fi.org) and here - Going fully Wireless IEMs. Too soon? Or are we there yet? | Page 1843 | Headphone Reviews and Discussion - Head-Fi.org (head-fi.org) ).


Sony sounds awesome. First observation is they are less loud. Second, the Sony eartips are more comfortable than the Senns/AZ70 (more on it later). Third, Sony app seems nicer than both Technics & Senn with by far the most EQ presets of the three.

*Lows* - I would say Sony bass quality is almost neck-to-neck with Senn. I truly like the Sony here, which have spectacular lows. Sony seems more fun and energetic than even the Senns, but Senns probably have slightly better quality drivers. I feel I need to bring down the bass a tick on Sony if I want to enjoy music without tiring myself - not that the bass is overwhelming. Issue is it occasionally feels to be blanketing over the mids (depends on song), and I grumble about that a bit. Don’t mess with my mids! You can EQ it by bringing it down so not a big deal. If you listen to heavy metal or rap, you might like Sony the most. AZ70 had clean deep thump, but there was that ‘oomph’ missing.
My ranking in quality: Senn > Sony > AZ70

*Mids* - Vocals is what I focus on with mids, but certainly important with instruments like piano, guitar, etc. I considered Senn and AZ70 equal in mids. I think Senn/Az70 have cleaner smoother mids than Sony, but it’s so damn close though. I don’t think you will feel mids are lacking with any of the 3, and I don’t feel comfortable ranking one over the other here. Sony lows felt to be getting a bit in the way of mids as I mentioned so I had to EQ lows down a bit. I guess in a vacuum, I will put Sony slightly under the other 2.
My ranking in quality: Senn = AZ70 > Sony

*Highs* - The Sony sounded very good in highs. I found it getting a bit tiring for certain songs so I brought it down a notch in EQ using manual preset. I didn't feel that way with the more refined Senns or the smoother AZ70. Again, you can EQ it so not big deal, but quality does matter.
My ranking in quality: Senn > AZ70 > Sony

*Soundstage* - I feel soundstage is very nice on Sony. You could distinguish between different instruments, placement and clear imaging. Soundstage is not quite Senn-level, but close. I think Senn has best soundstage of the 3. I initially said the AZ70 was behind in this category versus the Senn..
My ranking in quality: Senn > Sony > AZ70

*Features* - Sony and AZ70 battle for this one obviously. Sennheiser cx400bt has no anc, no auto-pause, no ambient mode, and no water resistance. Az70 and Sony has the full package so what’s the difference? Az70 has ipx4 water resistance & best build quality. Sony has best app of the 3 & best ANC. I would choose AZ70 here due to best build quality.
My ranking: AZ70 > Sony >>> Senn

*Comfort* - I’m surprised to say this but I don’t feel the extra weight & massive size of the Sony (I was expecting fit issues but they fit good for me). With AZ70 I recall constantly feeling they would fall out - they were sticking out bit too far. The Senns felt so hefty (they are like a big block) and ears got stiff after few hours - neither of that with Sony. Sound quality is great, but if your ears hurt, you must consider that. I know a lot of people have fit issues with Sony so I don't want to rank this one. It's difficult to rank comfort for earbuds. It's different from over-ear full-sized headphones.


*Overall*.. Sony has excellent sound quality and tuning. I would not consider them neutral like the Senns/AZ70, but you can EQ them to your desire. I messed with the EQ for each song, but typically used ‘bright’ or ‘vocal’ presets, which sounded great depending on song (‘excited’ was good too for fast-paced music but bit bass heavy - perfect for rap/rock). Sony definitely seems to have lower latency than Senn (not sure how AZ70 compare without A/B test). Overall sound quality is not as great as Senn, but it is very close.

I don’t know which I am keeping between the Sony and Senn, but I plan on trying the British company Cambridge Audio’s new Melomania Touch. I believe I will keep one of the 3. I’m leaning towards Sony right now, but I won’t decide until next week after testing the Touch. I got Sony for $160, Sennheiser for $130 and Touch will be $150. I will definitely consider everything before choosing 1 of them.


----------



## Canabuc

bladefd said:


> I finally got to testing the Sony wf-1000xm3. So here’s my comparison of it to Sennheiser cx400bt and kind of Technics AZ70. Technically I no longer have the AZ70 so I can’t do an A/B test with Sony. I can only go by memory of it from 2 weeks ago and my notes. I don’t like to go off memory so I will probably focus more on cx400bt vs Sony xm3 for that reason. I will occasionally mention AZ70, which actually has a fairly similar sound quality to Senns even though the signatures vary a bit ( posted a comparison here - Going fully Wireless IEMs. Too soon? Or are we there yet? | Page 1842 | Headphone Reviews and Discussion - Head-Fi.org (head-fi.org) and here - Going fully Wireless IEMs. Too soon? Or are we there yet? | Page 1843 | Headphone Reviews and Discussion - Head-Fi.org (head-fi.org) ).
> 
> 
> Sony sounds awesome. First observation is they are less loud. Second, the Sony eartips are more comfortable than the Senns/AZ70 (more on it later). Third, Sony app seems nicer than both Technics & Senn with by far the most EQ presets of the three.
> ...


My feelings between Sony and technics mirror yours. Only difference is I could not get a good fit with the Sony. None of stock tips worked for me they were fine if I sit still or walk but if I lean forward I feel them falling out of my ears. Can't imagine exercising with them which is too bad because they are loud and vibrant to great for workouts music. I also hated that the touch controls make you choose between 2 of 3 functions when they could have allowed all 3.

Which tips you using in the Sony?


----------



## bladefd (Dec 31, 2020)

Canabuc said:


> My feelings between Sony and technics mirror yours. Only difference is I could not get a good fit with the Sony. None of stock tips worked for me they were fine if I sit still or walk but if I lean forward I feel them falling out of my ears. Can't imagine exercising with them which is too bad because they are loud and vibrant to great for workouts music. I also hated that the touch controls make you choose between 2 of 3 functions when they could have allowed all 3.
> 
> Which tips you using in the Sony?



Yeah, they are not good for any exercise. They are best if you are sitting on bed reading a book at night or if you are watching nfl/nba on tv & you don't want to listen to the announcers. You can probably use it well for bus/train commuting.

Well, I didn't get good seal with medium silicone so switched to medium Sony triple comfort. Triple comfort have better seal/fit, but sound quality is not as good - little bit muffled. I am thinking of ordering other eartips like Xelastec or Final type e. Someone recommended the Azla earfit on the IEM tips thread. I will do more research and order one of them. I don't know yet which one.

I got symbio f over the weekend, which I only tried with Senn. I will try it tomorrow with the Sony for a few hours. I'm not too optimistic but worth a shot.

My Symbio 'f' take (typed it up few days ago with the intention of comparing to other eartips I buy later, but might as well post now):
I tried the symbio f eartips (all memory foam version) with the sennheiser cx400bt. They are definitely more comfortable than oem. Isolation is improved. I feel the sound is a bit muffled. I think it might be the foam absorbing some of the sound, which is essentially holding down the Soundstage a bit. I noticed that when I realized I had to raise the volume a couple notches. Highs sound more natural and lows are intact. I think the mids might be a bit sacrificed. I boosted up the mids (and lower end of treble) a bit with EQ & vocals sound better.

In the grand scheme of things, symbio are great if you want extra comfort, maintain bass/treble but sacrifice some of the mids/soundstage/details by extension. Mids are easy to fix with EQ, but soundstage you can't do much about.


----------



## scstubbs

Thank you all for your time and work! All the ideas, opinions, reviews, and input are helpful! I'm a long time lurker of head-fi, going back years.   

But I have particularly spent many hours on this thread the last months. TWS did not interest me until I got a pair of Xiaomi Airdots. Even with their quirks, they changed my mind. Cooking while listening to a podcast, with my girlfriend next to me studying opera is cool. 

It's exciting to see developments in Bluetooth, like LE Audio. It'll be nice to have a standard where one pair of TWS can connect  to a phone and a laptop simultaneously. My girlfriend and I want to listen to Opera together with our own TWS. So two TWS connected to one device broadcasting is also pretty cool. I'm aware of some proprietary solutions. And they're all very exciting. But I won't be happy until my mother can seamlessly use bluetooth. 

I'd like to give you my input of the Apollo Bold compared to my Airdots. My dream pair of  buds are the Sennheiser MTW2, but as it's such an investment I'm waiting for the next version. 

I bought the Apollo bold for the ANC and returned them because the ANC did not work for me at all. The Apollo Bolds large oval tips barely protrude from the case. The Xiaomi Airdots are smaller with a longer stem.  I tested the ANC with a window air conditioning unit, a sound machine, and a television. With low, medium, and high volumes (of outside noise with music off) the Xiaomi Airdots canceled out the same amount or more noise. It's because my seal was not appropriate. 

Now I won't even compare the audio quality here, the Apollo Bold sound much better. They are after all in another class. I have little ears and believe that somebody with medium size ears would really enjoy the incredible value of ANC under $100.

Finessing an appropriate seal with my fingers while holding the Bolds in place gave a glimpse to the amazing ANC it has. it's particularly good at drowning out lower frequencies such as the air conditioning and sound machine. It's really incredible technology. I just wanted to write a heads up for anybody with small ears, that these might not be the best buds for you. And to repeat what many others before me have said, passive noise cancellation from a good seal is the most important thing.

I've returned the Bolds and am anxiously awaiting to jam the Edifier TWS6 deep into my ear canal when they finally arrive.  

Upon researching them I came across the Edifier Ejoy5, which look like an updated TWS6. Notably they offer ambient mode! I do a lot of city biking, so I'd value a TWS with comfortable ambient mode.

Edifier Ejoy5


----------



## Knightsfan11

Canabuc said:


> My feelings between Sony and technics mirror yours. Only difference is I could not get a good fit with the Sony. None of stock tips worked for me they were fine if I sit still or walk but if I lean forward I feel them falling out of my ears. Can't imagine exercising with them which is too bad because they are loud and vibrant to great for workouts music. I also hated that the touch controls make you choose between 2 of 3 functions when they could have allowed all 3.
> 
> Which tips you using in the Sony?


If you still have the Sony's, get yourself Comply Foam Tips. From memory, T-500 fit them. They'll give you the seal, much improved comfort & obviously sound quality..


----------



## Canabuc

Knightsfan11 said:


> If you still have the Sony's, get yourself Comply Foam Tips. From memory, T-500 fit them. They'll give you the seal, much improved comfort & obviously sound quality..


I had some comply tips at home that fit on the Sony but didn't improve the for for me. The best tips ironically were from my L2P. They were most comfortable and gave best deal bit still felt a bit lose when bending over


----------



## FYLegend

Turns out the Earfun Free Pro large eartips are about the same size as the 1More ANC's medium-large (default) eartips) but fit much better. However, I'm still hearing the imbalance with the left side having more treble. I think it may also be depending on driver flex/pressure because sometimes the left just sounds completely devoid of treble and other times it sounds fine if I push them against my ears for a few seconds.  With the Earfun Free Pro and over-ear headphones I notice a very slight treble imbalance so it might be _partly_ my hearing, but still wonder if I got a dud. If so it would be the third QCC device I've used that has this issue. Only my friend's Sabbat E12 Ultra seemed fine. When I change the volume I can also hear the volume pan left and right before settling more on one side.  Just curious what devices people are using their QCC TWS with and if they encounter any similar issues.

I am rather disappointed by the battery life of the 1More ANC, not so much the buds themselves but the case. It only seems to last about 12 hours or 2 days of usage, not unlike my SoundLiberty 94. The case is also very inconsistent as it sometimes fails to power on the buds when I take them out. Fortunately, the buds do turn off by themselves when they detect they aren't being worn (as long as you're not playing music afterwards, or using an audio-editing app like FL Studio which will keep them on longer). When the case is depleted, however, you must power them on manually.



rhsauer said:


> I'm also really excited about these.  On the Anker forum on Reddit a moderator suggests these are the Liberty 2 Pro's with ANC.  I suppose they could have the L2P's Coaxial Acoustic Architecture, but in a different form factor (better for phone calls) and with ANC -- that would work for me.  Soundcore has a good record of punching above their weight (price-wise).  They're spending a lot building up excitement for these.  The big reveal is January 12 at noon eastern time.


I just hope they address the hiss issue, not just quiet things down as some L2P users have stated. Not keen on the stems either and kinda disappointed by the final name, I thought it was gonna be called Liberty Escape or something.

Looks like they're offering 50$ off if you already have an Anker product, but not sure if this offer will be worldwide or only in the US...


----------



## Thesonofkrypton

First/early impressions of the Melomania Touch at Techradar:

https://www.techradar.com/uk/reviews/cambridge-audio-melomania-touch


----------



## C_Lindbergh (Jan 1, 2021)

Also a review from Tech Advisor:

https://www.techadvisor.co.uk/review/cambridge-audio-melomania-touch-3799893/

There is indeed a noticeable difference between the two different audio modes. 

"There is a noticeable drop in audio quality when you swap to low power, of course, which is why I’d leave it on high performance (40 hours is plenty for me) unless you know you’re going to need the battery life.
"


----------



## Caipirina

howdy said:


> On Reddit there has been lots of people who had a lot of issues come to find out they are fake. One person on Reddit shows pictures of the fake next to the real and there close to real looking.


Here's a video ... 

one guy in the comments says that his fakes sound amazing


----------



## Canabuc (Jan 1, 2021)

Spent some more time with the Technics. If you listen to vocalists and acoustic music they are fantastic. However they are not great otherwise to my ears. First off the volume max is too low. I have to push volume 10 louder to get equal volume to my other buds. Bass is lacking. I can tell it gets low but there is not enough. EQ even on max  bass doesn't help enough and so other genres seem a bit thin. I have also had issues getting the buds in and out of the case. And while in the case sometimes have to fiddle to get the charging light on as they don't always seat perfectly.
Had to reset them because of songs cutting it intermittently every 2 minutes. It was a nightmare to repair them. At least that got fixed. I think these are a good pair for a first attempt but like the 1more they aren't loud enough and can't be tuned to improve the sound.

That being said with equalizer set with bass at +6 then +3 for midbass and a bit of small bump in treble and ANC on it adds a bit more punch.

@dweaver Wonder if you listen with ANC in even in quiet environment as that seems to boost the bass. Feel they should update firmware to allow more Bass if not as stock sound the. At least allow the EQ to add more or the bass boost preset which makes little difference right now.

I think I will revisit the Sony before they go back and compare to the 85t when they arrive. I'm almost tempted to bite the bullet and get the MTW2 but I see Amazon has raised the price back up to 400$ Canadian so not worth it.

Anyone have recommendations for great sounding TWS with ANC and good fit you can exercise with?


----------



## Mitch_maio

Hi everybody, recommendation is required, what budget (up to usd 50-70 max) tws buds have physical buttons and no sensor? Already have mw07+, looking for something rather cheap now  thank you and Happy NY!


----------



## Canabuc

Mitch_maio said:


> Hi everybody, recommendation is required, what budget (up to usd 50-70 max) tws buds have physical buttons and no sensor? Already have mw07+, looking for something rather cheap now  thank you and Happy NY!


If you go up a bit jabra 75t are great choice for all around bud


----------



## C_Lindbergh

Melomania touch review by Forbes:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/marksp...s-earbuds-youll-hear-even-at-twice-the-price/


----------



## dweaver

Canabuc said:


> Spent some more time with the Technics. If you listen to vocalists and acoustic music they are fantastic. However they are not great otherwise to my ears. First off the volume max is too low. I have to push volume 10 louder to get equal volume to my other buds. Bass is lacking. I can tell it gets low but there is not enough. EQ even on max  bass doesn't help enough and so other genres seem a bit thin. I have also had issues getting the buds in and out of the case. And while in the case sometimes have to fiddle to get the charging light on as they don't always seat perfectly.
> Had to reset them because of songs cutting it intermittently every 2 minutes. It was a nightmare to repair them. At least that got fixed. I think these are a good pair for a first attempt but like the 1more they aren't loud enough and can't be tuned to improve the sound.
> 
> That being said with equalizer set with bass at +6 then +3 for midbass and a bit of small bump in treble and ANC on it adds a bit more punch.
> ...


I use all 3 modes but do use the ANC mode the most. I also am a low volume listener as I rarely go past 1/3 volume and just slightly past 1/2 volume is the loudest I have ever gone with the AZ70.

I have a feeling these just won't work for you. I wonder if those Cambridge Melomania Touch might be the ones for you? No ANC but they do have ambient mode and the early reviews sound promising. I am also curious if the Status Audio Between Pro might work again no ANC but does have ambient mode. But this one has no app.


----------



## Canabuc

dweaver said:


> I use all 3 modes but do use the ANC mode the most. I also am a low volume listener as I rarely go past 1/3 volume and just slightly past 1/2 volume is the loudest I have ever gone with the AZ70.
> 
> I have a feeling these just won't work for you. I wonder if those Cambridge Melomania Touch might be the ones for you? No ANC but they do have ambient mode and the early reviews sound promising. I am also curious if the Status Audio Between Pro might work again no ANC but does have ambient mode. But this one has no app.


I want to have ANC or I might as well stock with my Liberty 2pro.
The bass is definitely improved with ANC which I was not using initially in my testing. Think I would use it on at all times and set the hear through to alternate from ambient to ANC and remove the of position altogether.

I am conflicted because I really love the mids and highs. They are boyfriend better and wider than the Jabra.  The bass is improving with ANC on. Next thing to try when I get back to town is my comply tips.


----------



## dweaver

Ya give comply a try they do help the bass


----------



## clerkpalmer

C_Lindbergh said:


> Also a review from Tech Advisor:
> 
> https://www.techadvisor.co.uk/review/cambridge-audio-melomania-touch-3799893/
> 
> ...


Really wish they had gone for ANC.  It's hard to give it up once you have it.


----------



## bladefd

Hmm, melomania Touch is now on Amazon, but shows March delivery if you want it directly from Amazon using Amazon prime (Prime free delivery from Amazon warehouse shows March 11 delivery date). That's crazy.  AmazonSmile: Cambridge Audio Melomania Touch Earbuds, True Wireless Bluetooth 5.0, Hi-Fi Sound, in-Ear Stereo Ear Buds for iPhone and for Android (White): Home Audio & Theater 

I guess if you want it in January, you have to order from Cambridge Audio directly or you might be waiting until March.


----------



## jant71 (Jan 1, 2021)

bladefd said:


> Hmm, melomania Touch is now on Amazon, but shows March delivery if you want it directly from Amazon using Amazon prime (Prime free delivery from Amazon warehouse shows March 11 delivery date). That's crazy.  AmazonSmile: Cambridge Audio Melomania Touch Earbuds, True Wireless Bluetooth 5.0, Hi-Fi Sound, in-Ear Stereo Ear Buds for iPhone and for Android (White): Home Audio & Theater
> 
> I guess if you want it in January, you have to order from Cambridge Audio directly or you might be waiting until March.



You make it sound like you can't get it on Amazon till March.  You can still order them on Amazon and use your gift cards and all that but Cambridge ships it. No real difference since shipping is free with Cambridge. Says refer to the Amazon return and refunds policy as well. Potentially the free shipping might take longer than Prime would but not a factor since Amazon has no stock yet.


----------



## Eyalpaz

clerkpalmer said:


> Really wish they had gone for ANC.  It's hard to give it up once you have it.


Would you say ANC is a deal breaker? Saw in many of the reviews that they mentioned it is not that necessary as they plugs are quite tight. I'm thinking of buying them but of course I need them also for flights, busy streets etc.. Would I need ANC?


----------



## Canabuc

Eyalpaz said:


> Would you say ANC is a deal breaker? Saw in many of the reviews that they mentioned it is not that necessary as they plugs are quite tight. I'm thinking of buying them but of course I need them also for flights, busy streets etc.. Would I need ANC?


Agree that now in 2021 it should be a given to include ANC in any new earbud of quality. The chip sets in these bugs all have the capability. The added costs to incorporate the mics is not large. It would add less than 10$to the cost which must would be glad to pay for the added functionality. Heck Jabra retroactively added it to a2019 model as it had the beer chipset


----------



## Canabuc

Anyone have experience with the Huawei Free Buds Pro? Great Anc multi pairing very good battery....


----------



## Thesonofkrypton

A couple of unboxing videos of the Melomania Touch:


----------



## C_Lindbergh

Will be interesting to see if Cambridge Audio will keep the Melomania touch updated. 

Its their first earbuds with the ability to receive firmware updates. Perhaps even their very first product?


----------



## Thesonofkrypton

That is one area I'm worried about but so far, they've done their homework and everything ticks all the boxes.


----------



## Fudgebar

im not sure how everyone feels about this but I did sort of a A/B/C/D back and forth comparison with the Senheisser Momentum (original) model that Amazon has on sale for $99 against my Fiil T1XS, my Earfun Free Pro, my Edifier X3 and TWS1, along with my Master Dynamic Go.

I compared these earbuds back and forth on several high resolution tracks playing on Sound Cloud, You Tube, on both my Samsung Note 8 and also paired bluetooth to my Alienware PC to test out audio performance on alot of PC games as well as sound fx too and how well these earbuds could replicate audio that is comparible to my Edifier S2000 Pro Bookshelf speakers that I have connected to my PC.

I tried out alot of various music from Hip Hop, to Freestyle, Rock, Pop, and also alot of HI END acoustical You Tube clips that push your headphones to musical extremes

I have to say, I was quite surprised that the Senheisser Momentums performed very underwhelming in comparison to both the FiiL TXS and the Earfun Free Pro both of which demonstrated better fidelity and more articulate resolution of instruments.  Sound was fuller in the low end with quicker more accurately felt bass. Where the Senheissers really struggles was reproducing richly textured high notes like symbols, and hi hats.....and in some of my PC games, the musical tracks in the background along with the sound fx did not feel as rich and full of details as the other 2 earbuds.  I would say they fell somewhere in the middle to lower pack right above the Edifier TWS1.  Even the Edifier X3 performed more accuratelty however didnt get as loud.       

I tried switching out the default earbud tips with some Comfy's i special ordered for the Momemntums and also the SpinFits.....Both tips help improve the sound deep end a bit but still could not improve the overall Highs and dynamic range of these earbuds.  After spending a good 2 days going back and forth really trying to justify the purchase of these buds, even the sale price at $99 for these Senheisers that also seem to get world renowned accolades, I was left truly dissapointed with the audio quality in comparison to my other favorite earbuds.  I guess if I didnt own the Fiil 1XS or the Earfun Free Pro buds, I would guess that they are on par with the Edifier X3. Slightly above the Edifier TWS1 and slightly below the Master Dynamic Go earbuds.   But one thing I actually confirmed is that they are definitely overrated in by todays earbud standards....that is for sure.

I already have processed the return authorization thru Amazon to get my money back.


----------



## TK33

Fudgebar said:


> im not sure how everyone feels about this but I did sort of a A/B/C/D back and forth comparison with the Senheisser Momentum (original) model that Amazon has on sale for $99 against my Fiil T1XS, my Earfun Free Pro, my Edifier X3 and TWS1, along with my Master Dynamic Go.
> 
> I compared these earbuds back and forth on several high resolution tracks playing on Sound Cloud, You Tube, on both my Samsung Note 8 and also paired bluetooth to my Alienware PC to test out audio performance on alot of PC games as well as sound fx too and how well these earbuds could replicate audio that is comparible to my Edifier S2000 Pro Bookshelf speakers that I have connected to my PC.
> 
> ...



Seems to me like a difference in preference when it comes to sound signatures.  I havent heard the others but I have had the MTWs and MW07 Go for over a year now and still use them.  I actually prefer the MTW sound EQ'd for a little less bass) and use the MW07 Go for a more "fun" sound (or when I am outdoors for the IPX rating). I prefer the warmer MTW sound and actually find the MW07 Go a bit V shaped for my liking.  Cymbals to me sound a bit splashy and artificial on the MW07 Go and sometimes I can detect a bit of hiss on the MW07 Go.  Still enjoy them both.  Not saying you are wrong.  We each hear what we hear but likely have different preferences.


----------



## Fudgebar

Fair enough, but to me, there is a difference in a warmer signature vs missing details, texture, or resolution in certain instruments.  In many of the higher resolution tracks I tested where you could close your eyes and almost actually hear the reverberations of the guitar strings being plucked one at a time in sound dampeneded studio, or the bit of rasp in a french female jazz singers voice as she sadly delivers the finale words in a love ballad all come to better life on the Fiil T1XS and Earfun Free.  whereas the Momentum Senheissers felt somewhat masked/slightly clothed lacking those clear little nuances.   

Best analogy I can make is getting in my car in the morning and looking thru the windshield....yeah I can see everything pretty clear  but as soon as I click on the windshield wipers and pump a squirt of the wiper fluid, that clear view enters a whole new layer of clarity and detail that I didnt realize I was missing.  This is what it is like for me with these earbuds.  And in regard to the MW07 GO,  I wouldnt even compare them up with the Fiil T1XS and Earfun Free.  However, for me, I do find them slightly superior to the Sennheiser Momentums   maybe almost on the same level...depending on what I am listening to.  But having other earbuds that I find sound better, and where actually cheaper, leave me no reason to keep these Sennheiser buds....I have to stand behind my original assessment that they are very overrated/overpriced in today's market.


----------



## bladefd

Another melomania touch review with comparisons. Apparently the only real weakness is at the mids, but otherwise they are as good as earbuds twice its cost.

https://hifitrends.com/2021/01/01/c...hese-true-wireless-earbuds-are-the-real-deal/


----------



## Shiven

I've looked over the last few pages, but I haven't read all 1,872 pages so apologies in advance if this is covered earlier. 

Are there any good custom molded, truly wireless earbuds on the market currently? I've used the Jabra 65T and currently have some Samsung Galaxy Buds+, which have both been fine, but I've wanted a pair of custom molded IEMs for a long time and I'm finally starting to look for them seriously. Now that I have used truly wireless earbuds, I doubt I can go back to using wired earbuds, so I'm trying to find a pair of custom molded, truly wireless earbuds with excellent sound quality and noise isolation. But it seems like everything at the custom molded level is wired. I'd be willing to pay quite a bit more for something that hit all of my desired features (flexible budget, but figure around $1,000), but I can't find anything that's even moderately close. Any suggestions? Or are we not yet at the point where manufacturers are putting out custom molded, truly wireless earbuds?


----------



## Tommy C

Shiven said:


> I've looked over the last few pages, but I haven't read all 1,872 pages so apologies in advance if this is covered earlier.
> 
> Are there any good custom molded, truly wireless earbuds on the market currently? I've used the Jabra 65T and currently have some Samsung Galaxy Buds+, which have both been fine, but I've wanted a pair of custom molded IEMs for a long time and I'm finally starting to look for them seriously. Now that I have used truly wireless earbuds, I doubt I can go back to using wired earbuds, so I'm trying to find a pair of custom molded, truly wireless earbuds with excellent sound quality and noise isolation. But it seems like everything at the custom molded level is wired. I'd be willing to pay quite a bit more for something that hit all of my desired features (flexible budget, but figure around $1,000), but I can't find anything that's even moderately close. Any suggestions? Or are we not yet at the point where manufacturers are putting out custom molded, truly wireless earbuds?



I think closest you can get to a custom is the the Ultimate Ears Fits.


----------



## CocaCola15

Pre-ordered the Melomania Touch direct from Cambridge Audio, should have them soon. Early pro reviews mainly raves. As a major Melomania 1 fan, not surprised. Can’t wait to hear them.


----------



## assassin10000

Shiven said:


> I've looked over the last few pages, but I haven't read all 1,872 pages so apologies in advance if this is covered earlier.
> 
> Are there any good custom molded, truly wireless earbuds on the market currently? I've used the Jabra 65T and currently have some Samsung Galaxy Buds+, which have both been fine, but I've wanted a pair of custom molded IEMs for a long time and I'm finally starting to look for them seriously. Now that I have used truly wireless earbuds, I doubt I can go back to using wired earbuds, so I'm trying to find a pair of custom molded, truly wireless earbuds with excellent sound quality and noise isolation. But it seems like everything at the custom molded level is wired. I'd be willing to pay quite a bit more for something that hit all of my desired features (flexible budget, but figure around $1,000), but I can't find anything that's even moderately close. Any suggestions? Or are we not yet at the point where manufacturers are putting out custom molded, truly wireless earbuds?



I haven't seen any. Only one diy pair a while ago.

Why not get customs and a Fiio UTWS3 or TRN BT20S Pro?


----------



## Shiven

Tommy C said:


> I think closest you can get to a custom is the the Ultimate Ears Fits.




Those look interesting but not quite what I'm looking for. It sounds like those offer a better / more-customized fit, but not the full custom fit experience. To be honest, I'm not sure how much that incremental difference would matter, but there's a degree to which I want to get the complete custom-molded experience if I'm going to go down this route. Definitely intriguing and I appreciate the suggestion. 



assassin10000 said:


> I haven't seen any. Only one diy pair a while ago.
> 
> Why not get customs and a Fiio UTWS3 or TRN BT20S Pro?



I didn't know those types of products existed; thank you for the recommendation! I'll have to look into them more. Have you used anything like those or seen any particularly informative reviews? I haven't used any earbuds with over the ear loops like those before so I'm a bit hesitant about that aspect, but it would open up a lot of options in terms of the earbuds themselves.


----------



## assassin10000

Shiven said:


> I didn't know those types of products existed; thank you for the recommendation! I'll have to look into them more. Have you used anything like those or seen any particularly informative reviews? I haven't used any earbuds with over the ear loops like those before so I'm a bit hesitant about that aspect, but it would open up a lot of options in terms of the earbuds themselves.



I've had 4 so far. 2x BT20 and 2x BT20S. Broke 1x pair of BT20, sold the other. Sold 1x BT20S and modded the last. 

I still use the modded one. I put a softer ear hook with a straighter MMCX end on it. If it died I'd probably spring for the UTWS3. Only reason I haven't is the lack of QI wireless charging, if it had it, I would already have ordered one to try.






Ii use them with both MMCX earbuds and IEMs.


----------



## Shiven

assassin10000 said:


> I've had 4 so far. 2x BT20 and 2x BT20S. Broke 1x pair of BT20, sold the other. Sold 1x BT20S and modded the last.
> 
> I still use the modded one. I put a softer ear hook with a straighter MMCX end on it. If it died I'd probably spring for the UTWS3. Only reason I haven't is the lack of QI wireless charging, if it had it, I would already have ordered one to try.
> 
> ...



Wonderful, thank you so much. These really do seem like a great option, and I see that the UTWS3 has built-in microphones to handle phone calls (which was something I wanted as well). 

Now I suppose that I just need to figure out what custom molded IEMs I want. Anything with a detachable cable connector should be compatible, right? So that means that my options are essentially limitless if I used these? I saw some discussion about 2-pin version of the UTWS3; is that a potential compatibility issue that I need to figure out (to make sure I match the UTWS3 to whatever IEMs I get)?


----------



## johanchandy

Does anyone know if the Melomania touch will be suitable for jogging?


----------



## Spidermanxd

Shiven said:


> I've looked over the last few pages, but I haven't read all 1,872 pages so apologies in advance if this is covered earlier.
> 
> Are there any good custom molded, truly wireless earbuds on the market currently? I've used the Jabra 65T and currently have some Samsung Galaxy Buds+, which have both been fine, but I've wanted a pair of custom molded IEMs for a long time and I'm finally starting to look for them seriously. Now that I have used truly wireless earbuds, I doubt I can go back to using wired earbuds, so I'm trying to find a pair of custom molded, truly wireless earbuds with excellent sound quality and noise isolation. But it seems like everything at the custom molded level is wired. I'd be willing to pay quite a bit more for something that hit all of my desired features (flexible budget, but figure around $1,000), but I can't find anything that's even moderately close. Any suggestions? Or are we not yet at the point where manufacturers are putting out custom molded, truly wireless earbuds?


https://www.adv-sound.com/collections/custom-fit/products/m5-tws-custom

They the only one offer at this moment


----------



## assassin10000

Shiven said:


> Wonderful, thank you so much. These really do seem like a great option, and I see that the UTWS3 has built-in microphones to handle phone calls (which was something I wanted as well).
> 
> Now I suppose that I just need to figure out what custom molded IEMs I want. Anything with a detachable cable connector should be compatible, right? So that means that my options are essentially limitless if I used these? I saw some discussion about 2-pin version of the UTWS3; is that a potential compatibility issue that I need to figure out (to make sure I match the UTWS3 to whatever IEMs I get)?



Yep. The 2-pin isn't available yet. But you can always get adapters for MMCX to 2-pin in different styles.



Spidermanxd said:


> https://www.adv-sound.com/collections/custom-fit/products/m5-tws-custom
> 
> They the only one offer at this moment



Neat. I had no idea.


----------



## Shiven

Spidermanxd said:


> https://www.adv-sound.com/collections/custom-fit/products/m5-tws-custom
> 
> They the only one offer at this moment



Great, those look interesting. Do you happen to have any experience with them? I recall running across some discussion of them earlier where someone said that their sound quality was lacking, but I can't find it now, and most of the reviews I'm seeing are generally positive (although it's hard to get a sense of the baseline they're being compared against).


----------



## ForgotMyName

So none of these new earphones are using APTX HD? Wonder why...


----------



## jant71

ForgotMyName said:


> So none of these new earphones are using APTX HD? Wonder why...



Aptx Adaptive is the latest and many are using it now. It incorporates/is backwards compatible with HD.


----------



## bladefd

jant71 said:


> Aptx Adaptive is the latest and many are using it now. It incorporates/is backwards compatible with HD.



Unfortunately, it doesn't seem like many TWS have Aptx adaptive. Just 5 of them - Products | aptX 

Of those 5, 3 of them have to be imported from Japan, which means no warranty or support. That leaves Nuarl n6 sports, which I didn't know existed until 5mins ago (I only know of nuarl n6 & nuarl n6 pro). That sports seems to be Japan only on initial google search.

Only one with international warranty is on Soundpeats H1 is on kickstarter & looks promising but I see it has not released yet. Says it releases on January 5th from Hong Kong.. I wouldn't feel comfortable importing from overseas tbh even if they do international shipping. If anything goes wrong, you have to shift back overseas, which would be very costly.


----------



## clerkpalmer (Jan 3, 2021)

So on the topic of codecs there is a raging debate in the air pods max forum about whether apples implementation of AAC is every bit as good as LDAC/AptxHD etc. I don’t fully understand the science but many are claiming that LDAC offers no advantage over Apples version of AAC (to be distinguished from Androids version of AAC). As best I can tell a very strong argument can be made that AAC on Apple is every bit as good as LDAC despite the lower bitrates. The argument is that since AAC is more stable it’s actually better. 

I am currently listening to a Drop Panda on an iPhone and have been using the same Panda regularly with LDAC an a Samsung Fold. On the fold I can definitely tell a difference between AAC and LDAC. Not gonna lie but I’m not sure I can tell a difference between LDAC on the fold and AAC on my iPhone.  Anyone have any thoughts on this topic?


----------



## Eli1232

jant71 said:


> You make it sound like you can't get it on Amazon till March.  You can still order them on Amazon and use your gift cards and all that but Cambridge ships it. No real difference since shipping is free with Cambridge. Says refer to the Amazon return and refunds policy as well. Potentially the free shipping might take longer than Prime would but not a factor since Amazon has no stock yet.



So what is the return policy through Amazon? Amazon says that it's up to the seller if a third party sells and ships it. I think Cambridge Audio says you have 60 days to return if you buy directly from them, so do you get 60 days for the Amazon one or Amazon's usual 30? I might just get it directly from Cambridge Audio to prevent confusion.


----------



## jant71

bladefd said:


> Unfortunately, it doesn't seem like many TWS have Aptx adaptive. Just 5 of them - Products | aptX
> 
> Of those 5, 3 of them have to be imported from Japan, which means no warranty or support. That leaves Nuarl n6 sports, which I didn't know existed until 5mins ago (I only know of nuarl n6 & nuarl n6 pro). That sports seems to be Japan only on initial google search.
> 
> Only one with international warranty is on Soundpeats H1 is on kickstarter & looks promising but I see it has not released yet. Says it releases on January 5th from Hong Kong.. I wouldn't feel comfortable importing from overseas tbh even if they do international shipping. If anything goes wrong, you have to shift back overseas, which would be very costly.



Don't go by that list. It is far from complete. Soundpeat Sonic has it and is out already and on Amazon for less than $50. Noble Falcon 2 can still be bought AFAIK on the US site. Unless you want the Falcon Pro which is pricey. True most might be from Japan but the big western brands don't want to pay the fees I guess so you won't see BOSE, Jabra, Sony, etc. have it and some like Nuarl come out there first so they are out but won't be here for a while esp. with Covid getting in the way. 

Since 5.2 with LC3 + isn't too far off just buy a Sonic and to tide over or some that use internal amp for SQ boost like the Melamania Touch or Hifiman even though they only do up to aptX. Codec isn't the be all end with the current tech. My Victor is pretty stunning even with only aptX since I pair it with the MSEB on my Hidiz and it can go to another level like the Touch promises to do with its performance mode. AptX to HD is only the next step as HD or adaptive are mid-level bit rate not high LDAC or UAT etc. which are around 1000kbps. For me I could have say a Fiio player that does HD or the Hidiz which goes from aptX to UAT but nothing in between but the MSEB would be better than the Fiio with HD.


----------



## clerkpalmer

Eli1232 said:


> So what is the return policy through Amazon? Amazon says that it's up to the seller if a third party sells and ships it. I think Cambridge Audio says you have 60 days to return if you buy directly from them, so do you get 60 days for the Amazon one or Amazon's usual 30? I might just get it directly from Cambridge Audio to prevent confusion.


If you buy through Amazon it will be 30 days.


----------



## jant71 (Jan 3, 2021)

Eli1232 said:


> So what is the return policy through Amazon? Amazon says that it's up to the seller if a third party sells and ships it. I think Cambridge Audio says you have 60 days to return if you buy directly from them, so do you get 60 days for the Amazon one or Amazon's usual 30? I might just get it directly from Cambridge Audio to prevent confusion.



Yes, for returns it is on their site they can't refund for Amazon so you you have to follow Amazon return window. I see they have Amazon pay on the site so you can still use Christmas gift cards or whatever on the Cambridge site.  Though that is still confusing  If they can't refund to Amazon what happens if you buy on the Cambridge US site and use pay with Amazon account and then return?


----------



## Eli1232 (Jan 3, 2021)

Actually, I just got this response from them:

"We sell our Melomania earbuds ourselves on Amazon (Amazon SFP - Seller Fulfilled Prime) and through Amazon FBA (Fulfilled By Amazon). For the latter, Amazon manages the returns process, and this follows their policy. If you purchase from our SFP listing, you will have a 60-day return period in line with purchases from our website."

So the current one available on Amazon also has the 60-day policy. However, it does say on the Cambridge Audio site that the warranty can only be fulfilled if you buy directly from them. I see no advantage personally for buying on Amazon so I'll just do it through the Cambridge site.


----------



## clerkpalmer

Eli1232 said:


> Actually, I just got this response from them:
> 
> "We sell our Melomania earbuds ourselves on Amazon (Amazon SFP - Seller Fulfilled Prime) and through Amazon FBA (Fulfilled By Amazon). For the latter, Amazon manages the returns process, and this follows their policy. If you purchase from our SFP listing, you will have a 60-day return period in line with purchases from our website."
> 
> So the current one available on Amazon also has the 60-day policy. However, it does say on the Cambridge Audio site that the warranty can only be fulfilled if you buy directly from them. I see no advantage personally for buying on Amazon so I'll just do it through the Cambridge site.


That’s crazy about the warranty.


----------



## jant71

Well, I think...




...you are covered from their Amazon store not just the Cambridge website. So you can buy from either place which really is no different cause it is stocked by them and sold by them.


----------



## bladefd

jant71 said:


> Don't go by that list. It is far from complete. Soundpeat Sonic has it and is out already and on Amazon for less than $50. Noble Falcon 2 can still be bought AFAIK on the US site. Unless you want the Falcon Pro which is pricey. True most might be from Japan but the big western brands don't want to pay the fees I guess so you won't see BOSE, Jabra, Sony, etc. have it and some like Nuarl come out there first so they are out but won't be here for a while esp. with Covid getting in the way.
> 
> Since 5.2 with LC3 + isn't too far off just buy a Sonic and to tide over or some that use internal amp for SQ boost like the Melamania Touch or Hifiman even though they only do up to aptX. Codec isn't the be all end with the current tech. My Victor is pretty stunning even with only aptX since I pair it with the MSEB on my Hidiz and it can go to another level like the Touch promises to do with its performance mode. AptX to HD is only the next step as HD or adaptive are mid-level bit rate not high LDAC or UAT etc. which are around 1000kbps. For me I could have say a Fiio player that does HD or the Hidiz which goes from aptX to UAT but nothing in between but the MSEB would be better than the Fiio with HD.



Noble Falcon 2 has 20% restocking fee on top of return shipping charge. That sucks without reviews to gauge before purchase.
"Here at Noble we believe that everyone should have the opportunity to demo our products in the comfort on their own home using their own equipment. Therefore, we afford users 5 day demo period beginning on the date of delivery. Returned products must be received in like-new condition with all accessories and a *20% restocking fee will be assessed. Customers are also expected to pay for return shipping back to Noble*."

I will probably just stick with regular aptx with Touch or wf-1000xm3. Otherwise I would be waiting forever for that next great earbud technology releasing lol. There will always be that great new thing coming out


----------



## bronco1015

howdy said:


> I wonder if the hinges are anything like the Sennheiser MTW 1? My case broke with delicate care in 2 pieces. I think that's unacceptable for 300 dollar TWs earbuds.


Having both, no. IMO, the Technics case is way better than OG MTW. I personally haven't ever worried about the hinge FWIW. It's something i do try to keep an eye on with every twe i get.


----------



## Dobrescu George

The TrueConnect TWS IEMs from RHA aren't all about Resolution & Detail, but if you need something that's fairly well built, with a good comfort, and a thick, warm, dark, lush sound, they may be the TWS for you! I explore how they compare to other TWS IEMs, along with describing what their sound is like in my full in-depth written review!! 

https://www.audiophile-heaven.com/2...rything-rha-true-connect-tws-iems-review.html


----------



## Thesonofkrypton (Jan 4, 2021)

Just got the Melomania Touch delivered.  Very nice packaging and quality.  I prefer the white version over the black but I may come to regret that when the white case gets all covered in dirt lol

Had a very quick listen but earbuds were very low battery level out the box (3%) so have to put them back in case for a charge.  Very first initial thoughts, the touch panel on the earbuds are very sensitive and you have to be very conscious when holding them and inserting them in the ear without setting something on or off.  I can really appreciate the design on the Sony XM3s here with their circular touch panel where you know it's just that circle that's touch sensitive.

The fit - very nice and comfy and they look great in ear.  Kudos with the design and fit Cambridge Audio. Much better than the Sonys here. However, not sure of it's it's to do with the eartips, but I can hear my own movement slightly more than Sonys.  I don't see this as one you would enjoy walking around outside.  Great for home use where ANC not required.

Initial Pairing - was a little fiddly, it pairs them each individually as oppose to the Sony, where it comes up as one item in bluetooth settings.  Here with the Melomania Touch, it's Melomania Touch L and Melomania Touch R.  There was an update required straight out of the box which was easy to do, slightly worried that the battery was low but managed to squeeze through the update before they became very low.

Sound - I'm going to have to give them a good longer listen, but on first listen and I'm not sure if it's because they were on very low power and were defaulted to lower sound quality but they didn't come across as good as the Sonys, although the soundstage is pretty decent.  Will wait for them to be 100% charged and give them a proper go.


----------



## webvan

Rtings have a review of the JBL CLUB PRO+ TWS True : https://www.rtings.com/headphones/reviews/jbl/club-pro-plus-tws-true-wireless
They quite like them and write that they offer good noise isolation although that's not really what their testing and audio sample shows compared to the Echo Buds or even the QC Earbuds.

In other news I spent 2x7+ hours stuck in the tiny seat of a 777 last week and had the Amazon Echo Buds, the 75t and the QC25 headphones for company. Needless to say I had time on my hands to run a lot of A/B/C comparisons. I quickly found that the the 75t didn't provide as much overall isolation as the other two. I played with its  "checkerboard" ANC settings which was interesting with that IRL loud cabin noise but couldn't improve on the settings I'd chosen at my desk blasting a YT cabin noise video. I couldn't really tell the Echo Buds apart from the QC25s in spite of their very different form factor, better PNC on the Echo Buds and better (or rather more "noticeable") ANC on the QC25 but PNC+ANC was very very close.I did end up using the QC25 most of the time though as I was able to plug in to the entertainment system and watch silly oldish movies like Horrible Bosses 1&2 again


----------



## tiagopinto (Jan 4, 2021)

Eyalpaz said:


> Would you say ANC is a deal breaker? Saw in many of the reviews that they mentioned it is not that necessary as they plugs are quite tight. I'm thinking of buying them but of course I need them also for flights, busy streets etc.. Would I need ANC?



In my view, yes. Mainly for flights or train rides or where there’s constant noise.

Passive isolation may do its job but it’s definitely not the same.

I too am looking for “the perfect pair” and was hoping the Melomania Touch would have it but I guess they wanted to keep the price as low as possible maintaining the quality sound they were aiming for.

We’ll see...


----------



## Eyalpaz

tiagopinto said:


> In my view, yes. Mainly for flights or train rides or where there’s constant noise.
> 
> Passive isolation may do its job but it’s definitely not the same.
> 
> ...


Could they add it in a future firmware update? Is this likely or very unlikely?


----------



## Tommy C

Eyalpaz said:


> Could they add it in a future firmware update? Is this likely or very unlikely?



Theoretically speaking it’s possible like Jabra did for the 75t but the jury is still out of it’s as good as the ANC on the 85t but most reviewers say it’s not as good. 
In other words I won’t count on it as an added feature down the line.


----------



## Bhelpoori

Tommy C said:


> Theoretically speaking it’s possible like Jabra did for the 75t but the jury is still out of it’s as good as the ANC on the 85t but most reviewers say it’s not as good.
> In other words I won’t count on it as an added feature down the line.


It is extremely unlikely as according to the specs they are using the Qualcomm QCC3020 which doesn't natively support ANC. If they had another additional chip to support ANC like the Echo Buds then it may be possible but that is not on the spec sheet so you can assume it won't happen.


----------



## bladefd

tiagopinto said:


> In my view, yes. Mainly for flights or train rides or where there’s constant noise.
> 
> Passive isolation may do its job but it’s definitely not the same.
> 
> ...



Some eartips like xelastec have great isolation so it's worth a shot to try that if you don't have ANC on earbuds.


----------



## tiagopinto

johanchandy said:


> Does anyone know if the Melomania touch will be suitable for jogging?



With the fins, I hope so. I haven’t seen reviews specifically covering fit yet.


----------



## tiagopinto (Jan 4, 2021)

Eyalpaz said:


> Could they add it in a future firmware update? Is this likely or very unlikely?



I believe that’s very unlikely. I guess there’s more hardware necessary for this. If it were only a firmware issue I guess they’d do it in th first place. ANC is hard to control to maintain an even frequency response. And if they want to release a pair of buds with good sound at 140€ they can’t put all the features in there. That’s not to say there aren’t others who have it but I believe Cambridge really wanted to concentrate on a better chip and quality amp for sound reproduction, or so I hope.


----------



## howdy

cresny said:


> 5/6 hours is an outlier. Most report that with DSEE on they discharge much more quickly, around 3 hours. That's about what I get.


I stand corrected. 

I was able to do a short test over the weekend and after 1 hour it went from 100%to 70% in that time. 
I will try another test with the DSEE off.


----------



## bladefd

Whathifi released their review on Melomania Touch. Cambridge Audio Melomania Touch review | What Hi-Fi? 

Not very flattering. Seems to be some issues with pairing. App seems to have some bugs causing app to crash. Latter can be patched. Former I don't think it's actual problem with pairing, but you have to pair them one earbud after the other - more about following directions than some inherent problem with it.

Too many things nitpicked in the review, such as battery life. Cambridge audio refers to 9hrs battery life, but that's while in low power mode; high performance audio mode is about 7hrs. I agree that is false marketing, but still 7hrs is more battery life than like 90% of TWS on the market. They complain about lack of aptx HD, but I have not seen more than a couple TWS with aptx hd. They complain about overly sensitive touch panel - my cx400bt and Sony xm3 are also very sensitive, but they didn't take away a star with the Sony xm3. They complain about it only being ipx4 rather than ipx7. Okay, Sony has no iptx rating at all, yet they didn't mention it even once in their Sony review ( Sony WF-1000XM3 review | What Hi-Fi? ).

I do agree it should be simple to pair so okay a star off. The other stuff is just nitpicking. I just ordered my set of Touch today because I don't see any major issue, otherwise it would be everywhere in these early reviews. Most likely the Sennheiser cx400bt is going back because sound isn't everything - it has the best sound between Sony xm3 and  Teckniks AZ70. Comfort certainly is very important and you have to consider what you get (or don't get for the money).


----------



## bladefd (Jan 4, 2021)

Most detailed review I have yet to find on the Touch:  XXL-TEST: Cambridge Audio Melomania Touch – True Wireless In-Ears mit Class AB-Verstärkung und App-Steuerung | AREA DVD

Just be sure to hit the translate button if you use Chrome or Edge (German translates very well unlike say Japanese). It's readable enough in English that you can easily understand what the person is saying.


----------



## Thesonofkrypton (Jan 5, 2021)

Had a chance to give the Melomania Touch a longer listen with aac on the iPhone X.

Went through the London Grammar (Truth is a beautiful thing) and Freya Ridings (Live at Omeara) albums and was impressed, made some slight adjustments in the equaliser to get them how I want them. The slightly wider soundstage on these over the Sonys really help with acoustic and live recorded music. The sub bass is also more present and sublime on the Touch.

The second track on the Jeff Goldblum and the Mildred Snitzer orchestra album was particularly good with all those instruments (that trumpet just sounded more realistic), very much like you're there, sounds better here with the Melomania Touch than the Sony. Hounds of Love by Kate Bush, an old 80s track sounded better on the Melomania, I liked where Kates voice sat in the track vs the Sony.  The wider soundstage was more evident on the Kate Bush track 'Watching you watching me' on the same album.  The vocals and instrument details on Spanish Harlem by Rebecca Pidgeon are lovely, the maracas come in at 1:41 and it's like someone shaking them next to you.






Even though I like the Melomania Touch sound on certain tracks, I still think the Sony are still the ones to beat imo, they just sound that tiny bit more refined and better across a wider pool of genres.  I prefer how the bass is done on the Sony. The sub bass is better on the Melomania Touch but overall the bass feels a little too overpowering even on balanced.  You appreciate all the details and clarity on the track slighter more on the Touch but everything just sounds more musical and toe tapping with the Sony.

The What-Hi-fi review of these Melomania Touch are spot on on one area though- they sound decent but there is some connectivity issues.  For example, I was listening to them and it would lose the bluetooth connection suddenly and then when repairing the right earbud would have no sound and I was forced to do a full reset until they worked again.  The issue popped up again later on, so I decided to return them for a refund.  They aren't the only one to exhibit these issues, but is it too much as a consumer to just expect things to work?  I had already updated to a new firmware when out the box. Also, I found that having had them connected to my MacBook Air, they wouldn’t automatically pair with my iPhone when I wasn’t using my laptop so had to manually select them and visa versa - only the Left earbud would be visible and I would have to go open the app to get the right earbud on board or in the case with the laptop, only the left earbud would work forcing me to put both back in the case and remove them to pair both. There seems to be more of a reliance on the app here than the Sony (where both would just connect automatically).

This is very disappointing as everything else about them is superb, great sound on most music genres, fit is superb: it's the best I've tried so far and the app is decent.

Have decided that I will just wait for the Sony WF-1000XM4 as I like the Sony sound a smidgen more and will probably get the new AirPods Pro whenever they come out just for voice calls/running.  The Sony and Apple are two sets ive tried that have proven to be the most reliable ones out there without any major issues, the Sony XM3 has the sound I like and is the best sounding pair that I've tried imo, so will suffice until their successor is released.

The Melomania Touch are very decent sounding earbuds and I would personally wait for them to fix those connectivity issues before purchasing a pair. They’re definitely worth a shot at this price if you don’t need ANC. Best sounding pair I’ve tried next to the XM3. I can see how some people would prefer the Touch over the XM3 and at the XM3 current price, you have to ask yourself if you would prefer to pay just £10 more and get the ANC feature or £10 less to get a better fit and no ANC.

EDIT: did a little jog down the road in the Melomania and just to report no issues whatsoever, they stay in place and the passive isolation is great.


----------



## bubsdaddy

New "open" Bose Sport True Wireless
Wireless Sports Open Earbuds


----------



## DigDub

Samsung galaxy buds pro review. Looks like release is imminent as the online reviewers seem to have them for review already. 5hrs with ANC. If the sound quality is typical Samsung, this could be good.


----------



## Thesonofkrypton

ANC isn’t even on the level of the AirPods Pro apparently. I didn’t think the ANC on the AirPods Pro were that good to begin with so these must be dreadful lol


----------



## bladefd

Thesonofkrypton said:


> Had a chance to give the Melomania Touch a longer listen with aac on the iPhone X.
> 
> Went through the London Grammar (Truth is a beautiful thing) and Freya Ridings (Live at Omeara) albums and was impressed, made some slight adjustments in the equaliser to get them how I want them. The slightly wider soundstage on these over the Sonys really help with acoustic and live recorded music. The sub bass is also more present and sublime on the Touch.
> 
> ...



Good review!

I should be getting my pair tomorrow so will definitely focus on the connection issue. I have until Monday to decide on the Sony to keep or return so plenty of time for a/b testing.


----------



## JWAR1976

Hi all,

I have decided to treat myself to some better earbuds as the £20 generic ones from Amazon are temperamental at the best of times.  Now ideally what I need is to be able to use them on my iPhone 12 Pro (AAC) for short journeys and on my Sony NW-A45 (mixture of MP3 & Hi-Res) for longer journeys once some normality resumes.  I have around £160 in Amazon vouchers to use.  Other requirements are decent battery & decent microphone quality, things like Siri to control volume etc isn’t essential as I often use the crown dial on my Watch 6 to change volume on my current earbuds.  

Could anyone please make any suggestions so that I can make a shortlist ?, as there are so many brands out there, that it does get quite complex when deciding.

Many thanks


----------



## smith

My Melonmania Touch has arrived  today and after a quick go and can confirm 2 things ....firstly they sound great and secondly I have had some connection issues but nothing that is a deal breaker for me.

The sound ...really nice from bass (really good sub bass) to treble. Nice warm sound with no nasty treble spikes. My first thought was that they sound very mature in the manner of a good £200 IEM.

So  I was able to update them via the App fine with no issues but I notices that on a few occasions only one bud was on and I had to tap the other bud to turn it on and I have lost connection once or twice. 

But really they sound quality is great and they are keepers for me....


----------



## CocaCola15 (Jan 5, 2021)

The CA Melomania Touch arrived this morning. A few observations. Having owned the Jabra/Sony/Senn triumvirate of BT royalty (and a few more relatively expensive pair as well), I ended up keeping the Melomania 1 as my on the go BT phones.  To me, the simplicity of the controls (click not touch) and the un-EQ'd sound quality just were on par with any of the higher priced phones I owned.  In fact, I preferred the M1 sound to any of the others I tried, price to performance/usability.

So trying the Touch was a natural, hoping for even better sound and an app this time. Don't care about transparency or ANC. I use them primarily for walks with the dog, honestly. That's it. For air travel or home listening I favor the Sony WH1000XM3.

Have not given them a lot of time listening-wise, but there are some hiccups. One, I retrieved the app at the Apple store (using iPhone 8 Plus) and no matter what I do, the app does not show up on any of my 4 app screens. It is, however, on the list of apps on my phone. So to use it,  I need to go back to the app store, search for it, and hit open. What? Maybe it's user error, but I have never run into this issue in the past grabbing an app, any app.

Also, the connectivity seems stable, but I am going to give it a go later outside. I did have the Amazon HD Music streaming service stop suddenly, no reason, with the Touch still connected via BT. I could not get it started again hitting play. Use the Apple Music app, with onboard tracks, no problems. Weird.

So I am far from declaring the Touch as keepers, If they don't perform as expected, I will send them back and buy a backup pair of the M1s for $79 on Amazon (to me, an amazing deal). I am only using the higher quality sound setting (7 hours is way more than I need per charge) and not interested in transparency as noted. Oh, I did not put on the wings for stability but immediately decided I needed the largest tips for a good seal. I only wish I could use the M1 foamies I have here, but not an option since the sound stem is much slimmer on the Touch. Finally, the app shows the left bud at 30% lower than the right bud, which is weird. I am going to stick them in the case for a couple of hours and see if that changes.

So far, that's it. The sound is impressive to me, which is my #1 keeper factor. But if there are consistent sound dropouts plaguing my usage, back they go. At this point, connectivity should not be an issue. I hope they get stable over time, but that may be wishful thinking. Sound alone, love them.

*Update: Did a 30-minute dog walk with the M Touch and if they continue to perform the way they did, they won't be going anywhere. Among the other fantastic sound attributes, the soundstage is impressive. I am still having that issue with the app, but honestly I don't even need the app, I can use the EQ on the Kaiser Audio app I use on my iPhone.

Only EQ I did was tip the base a bit, ran through my HP tryout playlist, heard Lupe Fiasco, Jimmy Buffet, Madeleine Peyroux, Lucinda Williams, Joe Jackson and The Vulgar Boatmen before I got back. I know the songs very well, and impressed as hell with what I heard. And again, soundstage was the most surprising success factor. Was set to the higher-quality (7 hour battery) setting, large OEM tips and no wings (not sure I need them, not a runner). Not a single dropout, so that was great.*


----------



## dj24

I hope all the new MT owners chiming in will let us know how these buds perform on phone calls... That is once they get around to it


----------



## jant71

I was trying to be sneaky and check some etailers for new releases ahead of CES. Saw B&H has new release listings for a Cleer Ally Plus II for $129 and a Cleer true wireless called the Roam NC for $59.99. No pics or specs though.


----------



## CocaCola15

dj24 said:


> I hope all the new MT owners chiming in will let us know how these buds perform on phone calls... That is once they get around to it


Will do.


----------



## C_Lindbergh

I just can't order the Melomania touch from any Amazon site in Europe... None ships to Sweden. :/


----------



## Eli1232 (Jan 5, 2021)

My initial thoughts on the Melomania Touch: (Disclaimer: I'm new to the audiophile/Hifi community, so take my judgments on sound with a grain of salt. I also have not tried other TWS sets before, just consumer headphones and some wired IEMs).

The good:
- Sound and instrument separation are pretty good. Like others have said, the bass is quite present, and I would say very overpowering. I had to turn the sub-bass all the way down and the mid/high bass partially down. The bass is not muddy or unclear, there was just too much of it for my tastes. Comparing them to my wired IEMs (Moondrop Starfields), I would have liked slightly more mids and crisper highs.
- The fit is pretty good. I used large buds and large fins, and the fins helped keep it in place. Not the most breathable though, as I do not think there are vents, and the plastic can heat up over time. I need to wear it more to really determine the comfort, but it started getting a bit uncomfortable after 1-2 hours of use.
- Battery life is good. I didn't do a full test but with a few hours of listening and charging in the case, I was at 90% on my buds and 4-5 white LEDs on the case lit up.
- The case is small, light, and pocketable.

The annoying:
- Initial pairing is very jank/unreliable. When I took them out I just tried pairing them with my phone (iPhone 11). They showed up in the Bluetooth devices, so I paired them, but only one bud was making noise when I played something. I tried to pair the other bud multiple times, and at one point in the app it said that both were paired but one was in high performance mode while the other was in low power mode (I didn't know this was possible), so I reset the buds as per the sheet in the box, and they started working.
- Tried switching from high performance to low power, but it failed multiple times before working. I wouldn't recommend low power anyway since the white noise/hiss is a lot louder.
- Slight white noise/hiss when they are turned on and connected, but nothing too bad. You usually can't hear it while listening to music, but after going from wired IEMs to these on a quiet song, I heard it.
- Touch controls are intuitive and worked most of the time, but sometimes felt inconsistent. Sometimes they felt super sensitive, like adjusting the bud slightly at the edge triggered a pause. Other times I had to more deliberately/forcefully tap to pause.
- When pausing, there is a slight delay between the buds. My left bud starts playing/pausing about half a second before the right bud. Also, pausing is pretty fast but playing has a 0.5 to 3-second delay depending on how recently you paused your music. Not a huge deal, and I got used to it, but the play button delay was pretty jarring coming from my Sony WH-1000XM3 (my main Bluetooth audio device).
- I tried doing a call on these. When I received the call and selected the Melomanias for my audio, the person on the other end could barely hear me compared to using my phone's built-in microphones, although I could hear him fine. More troubleshooting may be necessary, but I don't care about calling with these. So to answer the person who asked if these are good for calling: probably not, but my model might be a defect and it might be possible to troubleshoot.

Dealbreakers:
- My transparency mode isn't working. I think I have a defect since I have heard other people and reviews say it's OK, but when I turn it on I just hear extra white noise and no change in outside noise blockage.

Verdict: Apart from the sound, the Melomania Touch did not feel like a very polished product. The difficulty of pairing as well as slight inconsistencies and while operating are annoying, but if you're willing to look past that and you mainly care about sound, I would recommend these (given that your transparency mode works; I will be returning and getting a new pair for that reason). I have not tried the Sony WF-1000XM3s, but based on my experiences with the WH-1000XM3 headphones, I think Sony and other more big-name brands may provide a better user experience overall. I think the sound on the Melomanias is great, but not good enough for me to completely overlook their annoyances.

EDIT: I've heard reviewers say the passive noise isolation is good enough that you don't really need ANC. I somewhat disagree with this. It's alright, and it blocked out most of the words of people talking in the same room as me, but it's definitely a step below the ANC on my Sony WH headphones and the passive noise isolation of deep-insertion IEMs like Etymotic ER2SE's.


----------



## bladefd

CocaCola15 said:


> The CA Melomania Touch arrived this morning. A few observations. Having owned the Jabra/Sony/Senn triumvirate of BT royalty (and a few more relatively expensive pair as well), I ended up keeping the Melomania 1 as my on the go BT phones.  To me, the simplicity of the controls (click not touch) and the un-EQ'd sound quality just were on par with any of the higher priced phones I owned.  In fact, I preferred the M1 sound to any of the others I tried, price to performance/usability.
> 
> So trying the Touch was a natural, hoping for even better sound and an app this time. Don't care about transparency or ANC. I use them primarily for walks with the dog, honestly. That's it. For air travel or home listening I favor the Sony WH1000XM3.
> 
> ...



Do you get connection drops without opening up the app? Perhaps the issue is primarily with a buggy app??


----------



## CocaCola15 (Jan 5, 2021)

Eli1232 said:


> My initial thoughts on the Melomania Touch: (Disclaimer: I'm new to the audiophile/Hifi community, so take my judgments on sound with a grain of salt. I also have not tried other TWS sets before, just consumer headphones and some wired IEMs).
> 
> The good:
> - Sound and instrument separation are pretty good. Like others have said, the bass is quite present, and I would say very overpowering. I had to turn the sub-bass all the way down and the mid/high bass partially down. The bass is not muddy or unclear, there was just too much of it for my tastes. Comparing them to my wired IEMs (Moondrop Starfields), I would have liked slightly more mids and crisper highs.
> ...


Interesting. If I had the same experience I’d be unhappy. I did have a small bit of initial pairing issue, but after updating FW it seemed fine. But between the tip size selection and getting the app up and running they really worked well OOB and did not disconnect on that inaugural 30-minute walk outdoors.

About the bass, I did not feel it overpowering and in fact boosted it a very tiny amount. Using iPhone 8+. I have an LG V20 on hand, my primary at home DAP, so going to connect the Touch later and see how that sounds/works, using aptx.

Different strokes. I tried the Moondrop Starfields out but felt they were a bit too neutral. Also, my lone pair of at home wired in-ears are the Blon 03.

I also have the Sony NC headphones and owned the NC in-ears, but did not care for the form factor or their volume limitations.

Anyway, hope your replacement pair work as advertised.

Edit: More listening and messing with the EQ and I shut down the added bass, using the preset balanced option. Sounds fantastic, no need for any EQ.


----------



## soullinker20 (Jan 5, 2021)

just got my UE Fits. as expected sound is very nice and easily prefer it over my az70. isolation is top notch. touch panel isn't that much sensitive.
did anyone here bought the devialet gemini. was planning to get them but would like to see more impressions.


----------



## Tommy C

soullinker20 said:


> just got my UE Fits. as expected sound is very nice and easily prefer it over my az70. isolation is top notch. touch panel isn't that much sensitive.
> did anyone here bought the devialet gemini. was planning to get them but would like to see more impressions.


The Fits are definitely interesting.  
Flossy tested devialet gemini and it seems like the software is glitchy and super annoying.


----------



## soullinker20

Tommy C said:


> The Fits are definitely interesting.
> Flossy tested devialet gemini and it seems like the software is glitchy and super annoying.




thanks. i'll check it out


----------



## tinyman392

soullinker20 said:


> just got my UE Fits. as expected sound is very nice and easily prefer it over my az70. isolation is top notch. touch panel isn't that much sensitive.
> did anyone here bought the devialet gemini. was planning to get them but would like to see more impressions.



I got mine last week.  I had some connection issues initially, but reset them and connected to the right (instead of left) and haven’t had any connection issues since.  They actually sound really good, rival the AirPods Pro in terms of sound quality (larger bass body and bass presence with some refined treble).  Really happy with the way they sound.  The control they have kind of leaves me wanting more.  The Pro I can play, pause, skip, go back, and call Siri.  These I get to choose two (tops).  

Edit: the fit isn’t as good as customs (to be honest, wouldn’t exit it to), but they are super comfortable.  Isolation isn’t great since they sit quite shallow in the ear.


----------



## soullinker20

tinyman392 said:


> I got mine last week.  I had some connection issues initially, but reset them and connected to the right (instead of left) and haven’t had any connection issues since.  They actually sound really good, rival the AirPods Pro in terms of sound quality (larger bass body and bass presence with some refined treble).  Really happy with the way they sound.  The control they have kind of leaves me wanting more.  The Pro I can play, pause, skip, go back, and call Siri.  These I get to choose two (tops).
> 
> Edit: the fit isn’t as good as customs (to be honest, wouldn’t exit it to), but they are super comfortable.  Isolation isn’t great since they sit quite shallow in the ear.



haven't heard the airpods pro. The fit doesn't go as deep like a custom do but the fit is very good. the sound has a very nice presentation layering is very good and soundstage is wide. I bought this because i do have UE customs and like their house sound.


----------



## tinyman392

soullinker20 said:


> haven't heard the airpods pro. The fit doesn't go as deep like a custom do but the fit is very good. the sound has a very nice presentation layering is very good and soundstage is wide. I bought this because i do have UE customs and like their house sound.



The last pair of UE I got were the UE900 from way back when as a review sample.  The fit is good, I definitely agree.  Sound stage is average for me. I do like the sound signature they have though.


----------



## soullinker20

@Tommy C just finished watching the vid. although sound is good but the controls are very limited. I might just stay with UE Fits and az70 i guess.


----------



## dweaver

Eli1232 said:


> My initial thoughts on the Melomania Touch: (Disclaimer: I'm new to the audiophile/Hifi community, so take my judgments on sound with a grain of salt. I also have not tried other TWS sets before, just consumer headphones and some wired IEMs).
> 
> The good:
> - Sound and instrument separation are pretty good. Like others have said, the bass is quite present, and I would say very overpowering. I had to turn the sub-bass all the way down and the mid/high bass partially down. The bass is not muddy or unclear, there was just too much of it for my tastes. Comparing them to my wired IEMs (Moondrop Starfields), I would have liked slightly more mids and crisper highs.
> ...


You might prefer the AZ70 as it is a bit to bass light for some of the members here so it might be more in line with your sonic preferences.


----------



## dweaver

soullinker20 said:


> just got my UE Fits. as expected sound is very nice and easily prefer it over my az70. isolation is top notch. touch panel isn't that much sensitive.
> did anyone here bought the devialet gemini. was planning to get them but would like to see more impressions.


In which sense are you finding the the Fit better than the AZ70 sonically speaking? Curious in how the 2 IEMs differ.


----------



## tinyman392

soullinker20 said:


> @Tommy C just finished watching the vid. although sound is good but the controls are very limited. I might just stay with UE Fits and az70 i guess.



Controls are limited?  Like more limited than the UE Fits?  Sorry haven’t watched the video.


----------



## Vannak

Hello 
I am new to this tws
And I would like hear your suggestions? 
I prefer hybrid drivers design and sound quality and fit
ANC is not important


----------



## tiagopinto

bladefd said:


> Whathifi released their review on Melomania Touch. Cambridge Audio Melomania Touch review | What Hi-Fi?
> 
> Not very flattering. Seems to be some issues with pairing. App seems to have some bugs causing app to crash. Latter can be patched. Former I don't think it's actual problem with pairing, but you have to pair them one earbud after the other - more about following directions than some inherent problem with it.
> 
> ...



I ordered mine... waiting...


----------



## tiagopinto

C_Lindbergh said:


> I just can't order the Melomania touch from any Amazon site in Europe... None ships to Sweden. :/



I ordered them directly from the CA website two days ago. Free shipping. Waiting...


----------



## Thesonofkrypton (Jan 6, 2021)

The sound quality offered here for the price charged is remarkable. Just listened to Massive Attack’s Blue Lines album, the bass is really well done, top notch 👍 Also, In the Air Tonight by Phil Collins is fantastic. 

Definitely best pair out there on the market if you’re not interested in or need ANC. Still have issues with pairing, bit fiddly and slightly annoying coming from the Sony’s and AirPods Pro (they just work, hassle free connection).

If you want a better user experience and sound quality and an all round package, the Sony are still the ones to go for IMO. But these aren’t too far behind.


----------



## C_Lindbergh (Jan 6, 2021)

tiagopinto said:


> I ordered them directly from the CA website two days ago. Free shipping. Waiting...



Yea I tried that as well, but can't get past checkout... :/

I've never before seen  that you gotta type a postal code for your credit card... I tried my postal code to no luck.

Edit: Worked with PayPal tho

Now that Brexit has finally been delivered, is there any risk of any addiotnal import fees when ordering from CA to mainland Europe? I saw that I paid for VAT, so I should be fine right?



Thesonofkrypton said:


> If you want a better user experience and sound quality and an all round package, the Sony are still the ones to go for IMO.



The Sony's are just a No-go for me personally because of their huge case...


----------



## jant71 (Jan 6, 2021)

Due out on the 20th of january...
 https://www.bose.com/en_us/products/headphones/earbuds/sport-open-earbuds.html







Of course I am interested in this sort of thing but BOSE is almost going backwards here. Case doesn't charge so you need the base to charge. So, no auto on but not sure I actually don't mind that but separating charge and case is not ideal. Still no volume control. Still no aptx or adaptive. No blue color which would be nice. Would be nice if BOSE was innovative but they are kinda primitive so $200 is pricey. Due to having some Christmas gifts card balance left I could still be on board to try one out 

Back Bay Audio with a new sports model as well.
https://www.backbaybrand.com/collections/frontpage/products/runner-60-2
Think they are $40 but not sure why. Rather they were $50 or $55 or even $59 and give them ambient and their good EQ presets instead of just a bass boost. Seem to sound good and have wireless charging, plenty of battery and the right control scheme along with light weight and comfort.

A brand I thought can do good things and want to see what they can do with a higher level offering but they just stay cheap and simple.


----------



## chortya

Cross posting from the Oppo Enco X thread.

I have purchased Oppo Enco X to compare with Sennheiser Momentum TW 2. I like what I hear a lot! Dual driver design clearly beats single DD. SW and ANC could be better but sound wise I prefer Oppo over Sennheiser based on day1 side by side comparison with Tidal as source.

Crisp highs and powerfull bass. Clearly V-shaped but I like it. Momentum TW2 sounds muffled in comparison due to lack of BA for the highs.
Medium soundstage stage but good detailes. Out of memory very similar to Freebuds Pro from Huawei which I liked a lot too but I stayed with Momentum TW2 due to comfort.
ANC is very limited, that is probably why you will find a lot of returns at Amazon Warehouse.

For my taste the only better TWS/Neckbands are from Sony, WI-1000XM2 is currently unmatched in SQ due to dual-driver design, broad soundstage and LDAC support. But they suffer from significan microphonics.

I grabbed Airpods Pro from my wife and also did side-by-side comparison using my Samsung Fold2. Not sure if this is the combo of Android and Airpods but they are completely unenjoayable. Mids focused with recessed bass. Same track with Oppos and I just need to nod my head in tact of a nice bass beat.
I just reordered Freebuds Pro and expect Cambridge Audio Melomania Touch to arrive tomorrow and will try to do a high end TWS comparison for you guys. I am also planning to test new Galaxy Buds Pro as soon as they are available.

I will use Sony IER-Z1R hanging on Shanling MW100 as a reference. It's a pity they are so heavy and uncomfortable on the go, otherwise I would completely ignore the TWS form-factor.


----------



## Thesonofkrypton

Love my IER-Z1R, best purchase I’ve made in the earphone game over the last 20years.


----------



## Canabuc

myltz400 said:


> Really frustrated with the Jabra 85t s.  On paper they blow away the 75s, larger driver, hybrid mics, wireless charging,etc.  To my layman ears I just can’t see it.  It’s like everything they did has a drawback.  For example the oval shape is uncomfortable, they lack the balance and pitch adjustability option for ANC, the case is larger for chi charging, they pop and crackle between mode changes.  It’s like they are half baked, future updates might help the later.  I can look past all that if the sound just blew me away but it doesn’t.  I only perceive a slightly wider soundstage and a little more detail. I just can’t  justify the cost.
> Anyone else feel this way?


Will I just got these and all demoing them against the Technics, the 75t, the XM3,1more,L2P and Gbuds+.

I think many of your sound complaints were fixed in firmware.

So far the sound is really quite good. Compared to 75t, the sound stage is wider and the sound is more open. For those that like bass there is still more than most other buds and have EQ'd it down a bit from flat. It is less booking and tighter than 75t.
The nuts are more prominent than 75t as well.
The ANC is quite good . With no music on my bathroom ceiling fan which is quite loud was totally eliminated. The don't was almost as good.

They are quite comfortable.My only issue so far is that the for is shallower and different then other buds. Very comfortable but feels like even on larger that the fit is not as tight as with 75t for example. Not sure if this by design. Will have to test if these come loose with exercise. I have found 1 want supplier of an after market foam tips that are 20$but that is my only concern now is the fit.


----------



## greenkomodo1

Argh thought I found the perfect headphones > jbl club pro+ tws

But the foam ear tipsfrom comply and others means they dont fit in the case and dont charge!!

Anyone have any ideas or can recomend a similar pair of a headphones. I have already tried the other famous IEMs and getting desparate.


----------



## Mouseman

Vannak said:


> Hello
> I am new to this tws
> And I would like hear your suggestions?
> I prefer hybrid drivers design and sound quality and fit
> ANC is not important


I would suggest the L2Ps. They're hybrid and have an EQ in the app so you can easily tune them.  They do stick out of the ears, but otherwise are very comfortable. They fit well with the hybrid sound signature, which I also am a fan of.


----------



## CocaCola15

Received this email from Cambridge Audio support this morning. As noted, I have not have a lot of issues so far, but it looks like they are going to try hard to fix issues. Not sure how they released them if these are a problem for new users, but my needs are limited so I am happy, the sound is great. The one thing I am not happy about is it says to charge the "earphones via a USB power source for at least 20 minutes before using them." What does that indicate? I keep them in the case all the time,  but does that mean I need to charge the case for 20 minutes? I need to investigate. That is a crazy issue, no?

Dear owner,

Thank you for purchasing our Melomania Touch earphones. We’re excited that you are one of the first to own them. 

We’re also completely committed to your satisfaction - it’s extremely important to us that you enjoy these earphones, so we constantly seek feedback on what can be improved, and we’re here should you need any help.  

Since the launch of Melomania Touch we’ve become aware of a few things that we could have done better and apologise if your user experience has been less than perfect. Learning from initial feedback, we have come up with some tips which may ease possible frustration. 

To improve your product as time goes on, we will make regular firmware updates, so check the Melomania App and update your firmware to enjoy these ongoing enhancements and bug fixes. For some users, updating firmware or changing Audio Mode can require one or more attempts if the Bluetooth connection isn’t completely stable. If this happens, check the earphones are still connected in your phone’s Bluetooth settings and try again. We’re actively working on a firmware fix that will ensure a seamless experience first time, every time.  

Please charge your earphones via a USB power source for at least 20 mins before using them. 

It may take a few seconds to connect fully, so if you feel the need to press “Refresh” on the app it may help to wait a little.  

Also, and importantly, we want to clarify the procedure for properly pairing Melomania Touch. The way our True Wireless technology works means that both earbuds should appear in your Bluetooth device list, but this isn’t obvious unless you know about it. We suggest following these steps to be sure: 


Take the earbuds out of the charging case and ensure they are powered on. If not, touch the outer surface until they turn on (the voice prompt will say “Power on” and the LED will flash white). 

Touch and keep your finger on the outer surface of both earphones, one at a time is fine, until they are waiting to pair (the voice prompt will say “Waiting to pair” and the LED will flash blue and white alternately). 

Look for available Bluetooth devices on your phone or laptop and you’ll see _Melomania Touch L_ and _Melomania Touch R_. Select either of these and they should pair and connect. You’ll then see a pop-up message asking you to pair the other earphone, accept this. 

Now, in your Bluetooth device list, you will see one Melomania earphone connected and the list of paired devices. 

You can now use the Melomania App to further customise your listening experience. 

If you encounter any hiccups, please place the earbuds back in the case for a few seconds, and take them back out. This allows them to reset their connection (just be patient for a few seconds while they reconnect fully).

Again, thank you for choosing Cambridge Audio. We hope you enjoy your new earphones and are here to help, should you need us, please see our Melo FAQs here or contact us at melomania@cambridgeaudio.com.


----------



## bladefd

jant71 said:


> Due out on the 20th of january...
> https://www.bose.com/en_us/products/headphones/earbuds/sport-open-earbuds.html
> 
> 
> ...



Bose is a ripoff imo.. Sony has them beat across the board.


----------



## smith

Good that they (Cambridge audio )are getting ahead of this ...it is really frustrating using them and I was thinking of sending them back ...but they do sound really good...🤔


----------



## bladefd (Jan 6, 2021)

CocaCola15 said:


> Received this email from Cambridge Audio support this morning. As noted, I have not have a lot of issues so far, but it looks like they are going to try hard to fix issues. Not sure how they released them if these are a problem for new users, but my needs are limited so I am happy, the sound is great. The one thing I am not happy about is it says to charge the "earphones via a USB power source for at least 20 minutes before using them." What does that indicate? I keep them in the case all the time,  but does that mean I need to charge the case for 20 minutes? I need to investigate. That is a crazy issue, no?
> 
> Dear owner,
> 
> ...



My understanding is that they are saying to charge for 20mins when you open them up for the very first time. I am guessing they don't ship them from the factory fully charged so you have to charge them for very first use.

I got mine so will try them later tonight.


----------



## turbobb

CocaCola15 said:


> The one thing I am not happy about is it says to charge the "earphones via a USB power source for at least 20 minutes before using them." What does that indicate? I keep them in the case all the time,  but does that mean I need to charge the case for 20 minutes? I need to investigate. That is a crazy issue, no?



I believe it's a syntax issue in that they left off the part in bold "Please charge your earphones via a USB power source for at least 20 mins before using them *for the first time*". Many electronics will have this language in the manual to reduce false positives that an item is defective as opposed to just out of battery.

While I don't own the  Melomania Touch, I believe its charging circuity behaves the way many other TWS does in that it keeps the earbuds fully charged when they're in the case provided that the case itself has sufficient charge - else, once the case goes dead and power is not detected by the buds, they'll turn on automatically (like they do when they are removed from the case). Once the case itself is fully charged it should have sufficient capacity for multiple charges of the buds so you don't need to "charge the buds for 20 minutes" before each use.

Of course, for your own peace of mind, you may wish to get this clarified by their support team.


----------



## tinyman392

turbobb said:


> I believe it's a syntax issue in that they left off the part in bold "Please charge your earphones via a USB power source for at least 20 mins before using them *for the first time*". Many electronics will have this language in the manual to reduce false positives that an item is defective as opposed to just out of battery.
> 
> While I don't own the  Melomania Touch, I believe its charging circuity behaves the way many other TWS does in that it keeps the earbuds fully charged when they're in the case provided that the case itself has sufficient charge - else, *once the case goes dead and power is not detected by the buds, they'll turn on automatically (like they do when they are removed from the case)*. Once the case itself is fully charged it should have sufficient capacity for multiple charges of the buds so you don't need to "charge the buds for 20 minutes" before each use.
> 
> Of course, for your own peace of mind, you may wish to get this clarified by their support team.



Bolded section depends on the the bud's that you're using.  If your buds do have power buttons, then they'll likely stay off rather than powering on, but won't turn on automatically when removed from the case.  The fact that the buds don't power on automatically should signal the user that the case is dead too.  If no power button exists, then yeah, they'll likely power on.


----------



## FYLegend (Jan 7, 2021)

New Jabees Vintage. It seems to be just firefly.2 with BT5.2 and AptX. There's no ANC ("noise cancellation" refers to Environmental Noise Cancellation for calls), and also no telling if the USB-C port is "real" or not (it wasn't on the firefly.2 or Firefly Pro)
https://www.jabees.com/products/fir...wireless-earbuds-featuring-noise-cancellation



Bhelpoori said:


> It is extremely unlikely as according to the specs they are using the Qualcomm QCC3020 which doesn't natively support ANC. If they had another additional chip to support ANC like the Echo Buds then it may be possible but that is not on the spec sheet so you can assume it won't happen.


Jabra 75t uses QCC5126 which supports ANC (feedforward and feedback, but not hybrid). The 85t has its own ANC chip on top of QCC5126. Both should have the capability of AptX and single-earbud usage which Jabra hasn't bothered with. Vivo's TWS uses the same chip and has AptX and multipoint but no ANC.



DigDub said:


> Earfun free pro. Subwoofer-rish bassy sound with clear highs and slightly recessed mids. The case is tiny and is still able to accommodate most tips comfortably. It has wireless charging and real usb-c port too.


Any eartip recommendations? My "classical IEM" eartips from Audio-Technica don't fit that well though. Maybe I can break them in but initially at least they push the case out very slightly. What I find is that the better-sealing third-party eartips tend to break/loosen the fit. The 1More ANC red eartips are a good alternative, like Sony hybrid eartips. They have the same oval form factor and sound a bit more-forward/less boomy, but are also more uncomfortable. So far they're the only earbuds that stay in my ears when dancing.

The touch controls are okay but sometimes register double-taps as triple-taps and vice-versa. Also wish there was a way to use ambient sound when only wearing them in one ear (other than putting the bud in your pocket/leaving the case open)


----------



## newtophones07

If you are sensitive to hiss, you may want to order the new *Melomania Touch* from Amazon for ease of return.  Mine showed up today, and the background hiss is far too noticeable in my book (aptx, Pixel5).  Once music starts, it's fine, but any silence in the music, or between tracks, it's present.  I am going to give them a few days, but these may go to a family member. If you can hear still hear 12-18K, you are definitely going to need tweak the eq, as these are very bass and mid focused, OUT THE BOX.  Things may change over a few hours, and this isn't necessarily a bad response. 

No need to rush out and order them, I guess is what I am saying.  They are extremely comfortable though.  The added changeable ear attachments are cool.  The latest firmware is  1.8.


----------



## Bhelpoori

FYLegend said:


> Jabra 75t uses QCC5126 which supports ANC (feedforward and feedback, but not hybrid). The 85t has its own ANC chip on top of QCC5126. Both should have the capability of AptX and single-earbud usage which Jabra hasn't bothered with. Vivo's TWS uses the same chip and has AptX and multipoint but no ANC.


In engineering there are always trade offs. I’m going to make an educated guess here as to what they were thinking.

We want to make it easy to connect (compare with Melomania Touch and Devialet Gemini) and we don’t see enough phones supporting Qualcomm specific connectivity. The trade off is master/slave but single item in the Bluetooth list. 
We only have 5 hours with ANC and if we turn on AptX then it will drop to 3.5, and we feel that is too low.
We want to connect to two phones at once which we can only do with SBC and (maybe) AAC and think this is a unique feature... Multipoint today is a “very hard” problem in current Bluetooth, not so in LE-Audio... 
Alternatively, as a company Jabra want to remain independent of Chip supplier so decided not to use technology tied to one supplier e.g AptX...You see that issue with Sony between the 1000XM3 and XM4 dropping AptX. 

I don’t know the exact answer but I’m sure that Danish GN group/Jabra engineers had lots of discussion over these trade offs...


----------



## vladzakhar

No hiss on my MT unit. Dead silent. Using it with iphone Xmax.
I have no major complains so far and I don't want to nit pick.
Sound quality is awesome.
Comfort is awesome. They remind me of my customs I used to have.
Very well thought piece of engineering.


----------



## bubsdaddy

Someone needs to try these out for the team. I mean at that price they have to be good, right?

Louis Vuitton TWS


----------



## erockg

bubsdaddy said:


> Someone needs to try these out for the team. I mean at that price they have to be good, right?
> 
> Louis Vuitton TWS


Those are just the MW07 Plus, rebranded.  LV does this with the MW07's.  
https://www.masterdynamic.com/products/mw07-plus-true-wireless-earphones


----------



## jant71 (Jan 6, 2021)

bladefd said:


> Bose is a ripoff imo.. Sony has them beat across the board.



I hope Sony answers with their new buds of similar style to replace the old Xperia Duo otherwise there is nothing else that is open and doesn't go in the ear. The old Sony still does go in the ear like a donut and could use updating on that design.





New Earin is up... https://earin.com/product/earin-a-3/?attribute_pa_color=silver
"Smallest and lightest in the world"


----------



## howdy

jant71 said:


> I hope Sony answers with their new buds of similar style to replace the old Xperia Duo otherwise there is nothing else that is open and doesn't go in the ear. The old Sony still does go in the ear like a donut and could use refining on that design.
> 
> 
> New Earin is up... https://earin.com/product/earin-a-3/?attribute_pa_color=silver
> "Smallest and lightest on the market"


I can't wait tell they release some more info on the A3.

 I still have the M2 but I never use them and could never part with them either.


----------



## jant71

howdy said:


> I can't wait tell they release some more info on the A3.



Did you click the link?  Not sure we are gonna get more info as it is mostly all there except for the actual release date. Figure if the Kickstarter is Jan. 14th then 2 months after is a safe bet. They said Amazon and other retailers in a few months.


----------



## ChrisOc

We have almost reached the end of the stage one of our First Head-Fi Members' Poll. Stage one of the poll closes at Midnight GMT tomorrow. 

Only the top 5 in each category will go forward to stage two. Get your vote in for your favourite IEMs and maybe they will get into the top 5.

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/the...r-monitors-2020-please-read-the-rules.950854/


----------



## Canabuc

Have to say just got the 85t and found that I can add the Comply SmartCore Audio Pro tips I had lying around at least for the left side which was the side I didn't have as a good a fit and wow.

Fit is very good. Sound is slightly different bit up there with the Sony. Some songs Sony sounds better others the Jabra.
I can get the Jabra to sound like the Technics with some EQing. Yet it has the added bass those buds are missing. AmC is great and it controls everything from the buds.
Only thing they got rid of and I don't like is the bid can turn ANC or ambient on and toggle between but to turn off need to go to app.

Otherwise there might be best all around but for comfort sound ANC wireless charging price with an IP rating!


----------



## howdy

jant71 said:


> Did you click the link?  Not sure we are gonna get more info as it is mostly all there except for the actual release date. Figure if the Kickstarter is Jan. 14th then 2 months after is a safe bet. They said Amazon and other retailers in a few months.


Yep, I read everything before and watched a short YouTube video on it. What I should had said was actual usage info.


----------



## Dregur

The Melomania Touch are probably one of the most frustrating TWS I've ever used. Mainly because they sound absolutely brilliant, but now I cannot connect the right earbud to my phone, when it was working fine two hours ago. I haven't change anything, so I'm not entirely sure why it's not working now.


----------



## Tommy C

Dregur said:


> The Melomania Touch are probably one of the most frustrating TWS I've ever used. Mainly because they sound absolutely brilliant, but now I cannot connect the right earbud to my phone, when it was working fine two hours ago. I haven't change anything, so I'm not entirely sure why it's not working now.



The ghosts of PSB M4U TW1 that sounded amazing but boy pairing them and tech sucked.


----------



## Canabuc

greenkomodo1 said:


> I am very grateful for everyone who has replied to me about my search for comfy IEMs, thank you. I bought a Bose pair now and will give them a go. I am still determined to hang onto my Jabra 85t due to sound and general good stuff about them but I notice that they have a really weird oval ear tip, no idea where I can get foams for this in the UK?!!
> 
> Furthermore if an ear phone hurts after 1 hour of usage, it's always going to be like huh.


Well I was in same boat but for fun I tried stretching my older Comply SmartCore Audio Pro tips I had lying around on the right tip which was too small so poor fit and seal and wow it took a bit of finesse but went in and is snug. Fit is great and I am really enjoying the sound after EQing the bass down a bit and treble up.
Sounds like a slightly warmer more Bass version of the Technics and not too different from the XM3. They are airier and better soundstage and spacious feeling compared to the 75t.


----------



## Tommy C

Canabuc said:


> Well I was in same boat but for fun I tried stretching my older Comply SmartCore Audio Pro tips I had lying around on the right tip which was too small so poor fit and seal and wow it took a bit of finesse but went in and is snug. Fit is great and I am really enjoying the sound after EQing the bass down a bit and treble up.
> Sounds like a slightly warmer more Bass version of the Technics and not too different from the XM3. They are airier and better soundstage and spacious feeling compared to the 75t.



One thing I like about Jabra is their app support, firmware updates and reliability. 
I have an old pair of Jabra Elite Sport with the heart rate monitor and sports app and they are going strong for 3 years, both battery and case are still perfectly fine and while technology has moved on in terms of sq they are still great as a daily driver when I don’t mind sacrificing sq for ease of use and reliability.


----------



## tinyman392

Tommy C said:


> The ghosts of PSB M4U TW1 that sounded amazing but boy pairing them and tech sucked.



It gets worse when you get a new phone and need to re-pair them.  I had to try like 3 times to factory reset the left and right M4U TW1.  Though I will say that even limited to SBC, the sound signature itself wasn't half bad.


----------



## soullinker20

dweaver said:


> In which sense are you finding the the Fit better than the AZ70 sonically speaking? Curious in how the 2 IEMs differ.



having owned UE's flagship custom/universal, UE Fits sound are very similar and close to UE 18+ pro (2nd gen).
I only prefer it over az70 if i'm looking more on sound quality  than casual listening.

the UE fits has bigger and spaced out soundstage while also giving me more resolution. like the 18+ pro it sounds more accurate, fuller, focused or having a monitorish sound. There is more instrument separation, layering and extension on both ends. It hits harder on the sub region and highs extend more maybe past 10kHz. 

its tonality is leaning towards warmth without sacrificing clarity having a spike somewhere 8-10kHz.
the az70 is mid forward having more presence at maybe 630hz and up.


----------



## dweaver

Thanks @soullinker20 I used to own the UE900 and liked it alot aside from the darn MMCX connectors. I may consider the UE Fits if my budget changes some day.


----------



## HerrÄrmel

GradoSR80 said:


> This is a huge thread and interesting topic as the genre of TWS in ear buds develop.  I've been on a quest myself recently and I'm looking forward to contributing my experiences on here.
> 
> However on this post,* I'm posting to reach out/call out any other fellow Earfun Air Pro owners out there*. I recently got a pair and though I may have some things to say about it's performance later on, I found that they are extremely frustrating as they always open up the music player and begin to play music each and every time they connect to a device, I have tried this on an iphone, android, and even a blackberry and it does the same for all devices.
> 
> ...




Hi, I have a very similar problem with my Mifo o7. Sine a few weeks, they always start the apple music player on my iphone 11 pro. this is very annoying and it wasn't like this before. I was able to take them out, touble tap on the tws to play and it started the latest source - for me youtube music. This is not possible anymore as it always opens the apple music player  

Howerver, this is not happening on my sony xperia xz1...

I thought it is something that changed in iOS, as I only have this behavior with my iphone...

Btw: I bought the mifos after some good reviews here and connectivity and soundwise i'm quite happy - if I have a good seal. And they are quite compact...I would never wear these frankenstein-screws some others prefer. But nobodys talking about them anymore... are the alternatives so much better?


----------



## DigDub

Lypertek Levi. Comes with double flange tips, been a long time since I've seen double flange tips.


----------



## assassin10000

jant71 said:


> I hope Sony answers with their new buds of similar style to replace the old Xperia Duo otherwise there is nothing else that is open and doesn't go in the ear. The old Sony still does go in the ear like a donut and could use updating on that design.
> 
> 
> New Earin is up... https://earin.com/product/earin-a-3/?attribute_pa_color=silver
> "Smallest and lightest in the world"



A newer non-isolating Sony TWS would be neat.

I'm interested in these new Earins though. Look like they may compete with the buds live.


----------



## Vannak

Mouseman said:


> I would suggest the L2Ps. They're hybrid and have an EQ in the app so you can easily tune them.  They do stick out of the ears, but otherwise are very comfortable. They fit well with the hybrid sound signature, which I also am a fan of.


Thanks!


----------



## assassin10000

Found more info on the new Earin A-3 on their site. Says they've got APT-X LL but it may actually be HD or adaptive as the qcc5121 doesn't list LL on Qualcomms website.

https://www.qualcomm.com/products/qcc5121

https://support.earin.com/hc/en-us/articles/360016779660-Technical-Specifications

*Audio*SpeakerCustomised 14.3mm Dynamic Driver / Impedence 32Ω at 1kHzFittingOpen Design In-ear True wireless earphone faciliates natural ambient sound awarenessNoise ReductionPassive Noise and Wind Noise reduction algorithmsAudio CodecSBC, AAC, AptX, AptX low latencyFrequency Response20Hz - 20KHzMicrophone4 Microphones (2 Knowles Microphones + 2 Voice pick up units)Audio SharingShare and listen to music with your friend in MONO mode*Battery*PlaytimeMusic and calls: up to 5 hoursPower ManagementAuto Sleep after the earphones being taken out from the ears or the charging case for 5 minutesChargingEarphones fully charge in 1.5 hours with the charging caseUp to 30 hours earphones with the charging caseCharging case fully charged in 3 hours with a USB-C cable*Connectivity*BluetoothBluetooth 5.0 supports TWS+ technologyQualcomm QCC5121 MCUOperating Distance up to 25 metres (depends on the environment)Profile supported: HFP, A2DP, AVRCP, RFCOMM, SDP, L2CAP*Dimensions and Weight*Earphone (each)20mm x 17mm x 15.8mm3.5g / 0.12ozCapsule58.5mm x 47.2mm x 21.2mm50g / 1.76oz*Smart Sensors*Touch SensorsEarbuds controlAccelerometersControl music and callsEARIN patented left and right earphones detectionProximity SensorsIn ear detectionHall SensorsCharging case detection*Environment*IP ratingIP52. Sweat, splash and dust resistantOperational Temperature0-40 °CHousing MaterialsEarphones - PC plastic / Charging case - Aluminium*In the box*Two EarphonesCharging caseUSB-C Cable - 40 cmUser ManualSupport Card


----------



## C_Lindbergh

Is it just me or did CA actually pull the Melomania Tocuh from Amazon? I checked both Amazon.de and co.uk.

I also cancelled my order until they fix the connection issues, hopefully they'll fix it soon.


----------



## jant71 (Jan 7, 2021)

C_Lindbergh said:


> Is it just me or did CA actually pull the Melomania Tocuh from Amazon? I checked both Amazon.de and co.uk.
> 
> I also cancelled my order until they fix the connection issues, hopefully they'll fix it soon.



What, they are still there... https://www.amazon.com/Vodo-Bluetoo...sourceid=Mozilla-search&sr=8-3&tag=mozilla-20
Just kidding!

After the Gamesky review they probably said let's update them and get them sorted so they work out of the box. Do think he is right when you see the yellow warning paper when you take the case out it is obvious they rolled them out with the bugs not all worked out.


----------



## C_Lindbergh (Jan 7, 2021)

jant71 said:


> What, they are still there... https://www.amazon.com/Vodo-Bluetoo...sourceid=Mozilla-search&sr=8-3&tag=mozilla-20
> Just kidding!
> 
> After the Gamesky review they probably said let's update them and get them sorted so they work out of the box. Do think he is right when you see the yellow warning paper when you take the case out it is obvious they rolled them out with the bugs not all worked out.



Yea, you don't want a Sennheiser MTW Gen 1 on your company resume... Even tho that battery drain issue was way worse compared to the connection issue with CA Touch.

I just don't understand why a company would release a product with such a deal breaking bug, sure if its a minor issue that's easily solved by a firmware update I can understand.


----------



## jant71 (Jan 7, 2021)

C_Lindbergh said:


> Yea, you don't want a Sennheiser MTW Gen 1 on your company resume... Even tho that battery drain issue was way worse compared to the connection issue with CA Touch.
> 
> I just don't understand why a company would release a product with such a deal breaking bug, sure if its a minor issue that's easily solved by a firmware update I can understand.



I can see them wanting to get them out and selling before CES announces a bunch of new stuff people might want to try esp. since the Touch have few features. Same with my Victor. SQ, good mics, small size, but ambient is the only feature. You buy cause Cambridge or Victor studio made them sound good but not a lot of bells and whistles.


Also reading up on new 1More stuff and found this 1 tidbit at the end of a Comfobud Plus article...

"If you're in the market for pro-level in-ear headphones that feature Bluetooth LE multi-point connectivity, hold out for the ColorBuds Pro. You'll be able to connect and seamlessly switch audio between two different devices, allowing you to watch a video or join a video chat, yet be ready to take a phone call anytime without having to re-pair your earphones.

The ColorBuds Pro will be available later this quarter for $149."

Think they are really meaning LE multi-stream which is what the new multi-point will be called.

Have to laugh. Forget which site it was talking about the BOSE Sport "Open" Buds and saying there "is no info on ANC capability yet"


----------



## BigAund

Anyone else got issues with melomania touch sitting in the case? My right bud doesn't seem to seat properly when put in the case, as such it needs me to push it down before closing the case. I've had issues getting them paired as well. I think i will be returning them


----------



## Dregur

BigAund said:


> Anyone else got issues with melomania touch sitting in the case? My right bud doesn't seem to seat properly when put in the case, as such it needs me to push it down before closing the case. I've had issues getting them paired as well. I think i will be returning them



Are you using the large fins? Make sure the fins are locked into place correctly, you can actually feel the fins locking when rotating them on the earpiece. I'm currently using both the large fins and large earpieces, and haven't had any issues with them fitting into the case.

As for the pairing...I think there's an issue with a delay with the earbuds turning back on correctly when opening the case. If I open the case, and let the earbuds flash red then the LED's turn off, then take take the earbuds out, I've had a much better time connecting both the earbuds with my phone.


----------



## Luke Skywalker

Hey guys,

So I have a good news bad news situation over here and I’m looking for some advice.

The bad news is that I have misplaced my Bose noise canceling buds and I haven’t been able to find them for a few days

Good thing is that it gives me an excuse to buy a new pair of true wireless 

Since I might end up finding the Bose, I want to go with something different. My needs are:

1) great ANC, 
2) superior sound.

I love my NUARL N6P, JH Lola, and my missing Bose. I don’t like the Sony XM3 at all and I’m lukewarm on my Jabra 65’s

I dig classical and opera, female vocals (Norah...), electronic, guitar, jazz, blues. No hip hop

I’d love some advice. Budget is unlimited. Thanks a lot!


----------



## BigAund

Thank you. How about volume? Once paired volume is low, when i turn it up, it only increases the right bud!




Dregur said:


> Are you using the large fins? Make sure the fins are locked into place correctly, you can actually feel the fins locking when rotating them on the earpiece. I'm currently using both the large fins and large earpieces, and haven't had any issues with them fitting into the case.
> 
> As for the pairing...I think there's an issue with a delay with the earbuds turning back on correctly when opening the case. If I open the case, and let the earbuds flash red then the LED's turn off, then take take the earbuds out, I've had a much better time connecting both the earbuds with my phone.


----------



## bladefd (Jan 7, 2021)

jant71 said:


> What, they are still there... https://www.amazon.com/Vodo-Bluetoo...sourceid=Mozilla-search&sr=8-3&tag=mozilla-20
> Just kidding!
> 
> After the Gamesky review they probably said let's update them and get them sorted so they work out of the box. Do think he is right when you see the yellow warning paper when you take the case out it is obvious they rolled them out with the bugs not all worked out.



Getting them pulled off Amazon is a bad sign. I didn't try them yet - been busy watching the craziness unfold yesterday on tv much of the day. That was a crazy day yesterday here in America. I didn't want to go through potential melomania hassle yesterday, but today I will definitely try them out in the evening. I still hope to see firmware updates soon in next few days so I can guage whether to keep them or return.


----------



## dweaver

Luke Skywalker said:


> Hey guys,
> 
> So I have a good news bad news situation over here and I’m looking for some advice.
> 
> ...


I think you might like the AZ70, it depends if one of the reasons you don't like some of the headphones mentioned is because you find they have to much bass or not enough treble.


----------



## dj24

Someone mentioned the Buds Live a few threads back....  Best Buy currently has the refurbished ones on sale for $85.


----------



## Luke Skywalker

dweaver said:


> I think you might like the AZ70, it depends if one of the reasons you don't like some of the headphones mentioned is because you find they have to much bass or not enough treble.


Wow those look great.  I neglected to mentioned that I use TWS with iPhone 12 Pro Max via AAC and these look like they have it 

The Sony XM3’s always sounded muffled and I spent hours fiddling with the EQ settings and nothing helped

the N6P’s just immediately sounded great when I stuck them in my ears, same with the Bose


----------



## Dregur

BigAund said:


> Thank you. How about volume? Once paired volume is low, when i turn it up, it only increases the right bud!



Unfortunately, I haven't experienced that before. The default volume when I connect is always 50%, but when I increase volume it does it for both earbuds.


----------



## Luke Skywalker

I’d love to get the NUARL N10 Pro but I’ll be damned if I can find anywhere that sells them in USA


----------



## jant71 (Jan 7, 2021)

Luke Skywalker said:


> I’d love to get the NUARL N10 Pro but I’ll be damned if I can find anywhere that sells them in USA


Could have had them.  I have two Japan JVC TWS, my AZLA is Korean. People buy quite a bit from China and you don't get warranty but just go for it. They are $186 right now before shipping which is better than they are gonna be when they show up here.

Amazon could be of some help. I am still not sure exactly how much as I didn't concern myself too much. I wanted the Victor and I got them. 

If your in the US and get the $600 payment why not use some for yourself if you can.


----------



## Hwaij

Luke Skywalker said:


> Hey guys,
> 
> So I have a good news bad news situation over here and I’m looking for some advice.
> 
> ...



Not to be a sheep, but consider the Airpods Pro? Crinacle rated them decently. I have them and they are really convenient if you use apple devices. It's a generally inoffensive, neutral-ish signature. Extension on both ends won't impress you if you've had a good pair of wired IEMs, but still not too bad.

Otherwise, with ANC, potentially the XM3 is the only other real option? Unless you're willing to forgo ANC and go for the Galaxy buds 2


----------



## CocaCola15

I am having a janky connection experience with the Melomania Touch. Very disappointing. Had them out with me today abd it took 4-5 reseatings to get both buds delivering sound. But such great sound! Not ready to return them quite yet, but if they can’t fix them via firmware, I won’t have much choice. I mean CA is a top shelf operation, didn’t they test their new buds?

glad I have a pair of Status Audio BT phones on the way via Indiegogo!


----------



## jant71

CocaCola15 said:


> I am having a janky connection experience with the Melomania Touch. Very disappointing. Had them out with me today abd it took 4-5 reseatings to get both buds delivering sound. But such great sound! Not ready to return them quite yet, but if they can’t fix them via firmware, I won’t have much choice. I mean CA is a top shelf operation, didn’t they test their new buds?
> 
> glad I have a pair of Status Audio BT phones on the way via Indiegogo!



They knew. Just like I saw in the Gamesky video you don't put a yellow paper or sticker under the case explaining how to reset them unless some people are gonna need to reset them.  Gamesky said after the update they were fine so it is probably already fixed or damn close. I'm sure those who buy after they reappear will get fine out of the box units.


----------



## Luke Skywalker

jant71 said:


> Could have had them.  I have two Japan JVC TWS, my AZLA is Korean. People buy quite a bit from China and you don't get warranty but just go for it. They are $186 right now before shipping which is better than they are gonna be when they show up here.
> 
> Amazon could be of some help. I am still not sure exactly how much as I didn't concern myself too much. I wanted the Victor and I got them.
> 
> If your in the US and get the $600 payment why not use some for yourself if you can.


You‘ve tried the N10?  To me, N6P sound + ANC would be a match made in heaven.


----------



## Luke Skywalker

Hwaij said:


> Not to be a sheep, but consider the Airpods Pro? Crinacle rated them decently. I have them and they are really convenient if you use apple devices. It's a generally inoffensive, neutral-ish signature. Extension on both ends won't impress you if you've had a good pair of wired IEMs, but still not too bad.
> 
> Otherwise, with ANC, potentially the XM3 is the only other real option? Unless you're willing to forgo ANC and go for the Galaxy buds 2


Thanks for the great ideas. I have The XM3‘s and i‘m apparently the only person on the planet who hates the sound. they sit in a drawer... 

yeah I should try the Airpods.  I think they look stupid with those sticks and don’t look very comfortable but To be fair I haven’t given them a listen 

ANC is a must for me. Little baby at home and I fly a lot


----------



## tinyman392

Luke Skywalker said:


> Thanks for the great ideas. I have The XM3‘s and i‘m apparently the only person on the planet who hates the sound. they sit in a drawer...
> 
> yeah I should try the Airpods.  I think they look stupid with those sticks and don’t look very comfortable but To be fair I haven’t given them a listen
> 
> ANC is a must for me. Little baby at home and I fly a lot



Get the AirPods Pros, not the regular AirPods, if you go this route.  You can actually demo them at an Apple Store (whenever COVID ends), though most stores have a 14 day return period


----------



## jant71

Luke Skywalker said:


> Thanks for the great ideas. I have The XM3‘s and i‘m apparently the only person on the planet who hates the sound. they sit in a drawer...
> 
> yeah I should try the Airpods.  I think they look stupid with those sticks and don’t look very comfortable but To be fair I haven’t given them a listen
> 
> ANC is a must for me. Little baby at home and I fly a lot



How about the JBL. Everyone seems to love the Club Pro+. No sticks either and a couple on here have them so they can chime in or PM them.


----------



## Luke Skywalker

tinyman392 said:


> Get the AirPods Pros, not the regular AirPods, if you go this route.  You can actually demo them at an Apple Store (whenever COVID ends), though most stores have a 14 day return period


Ya I was too lazy to type Pro that’s what I meant


----------



## Luke Skywalker

How does the Sennheiser Momentum True Wireless 2 measure up to the rest?  I don’t hear anyone talk Much about them


----------



## regancipher

Just been reviewing the QCY T10. God they're crap  wavelet does salvage them but they're so finicky.

Just found out a guy I used to work with is now CEO at Earin!


----------



## Luchyres

@jant71 @Luke Skywalker - I second the JBL ANC CLUB PRO+  - I really like mine after EQing to my taste. The only issue is that I've misplaced them  I'm considering buying them again, or whatever JBL makes next....


----------



## Luke Skywalker

Luchyres said:


> @jant71 @Luke Skywalker - I second the JBL ANC CLUB PRO+  - I really like mine after EQing to my taste. The only issue is that I've misplaced them  I'm considering buying them again, or whatever JBL makes next....


Man that sucks dude.   maybe they’re in the same place my Bose are.  

It looks like the JBL’s don‘t have Aptx but I don’t really care about that. Do they have AAC? I can’t seem to find any info on their codecs 

btw, have you guys heard of the “Devialet Gemini”?  They sound intriguing.


----------



## Hwaij

Luke Skywalker said:


> Thanks for the great ideas. I have The XM3‘s and i‘m apparently the only person on the planet who hates the sound. they sit in a drawer...
> 
> yeah I should try the Airpods.  I think they look stupid with those sticks and don’t look very comfortable but To be fair I haven’t given them a listen
> 
> ANC is a must for me. Little baby at home and I fly a lot



You’ll be glad to know they are comfortable. I have FLC 8Ns, etymotic HF3s and FiiO FH1s and the air pods pros are the most comfortable. It’s a somewhat shallow in ear fit and they are super light and decently secure. I’ve slept with them in an airplane before, although the battery life wasn’t enough for the whole 13 hour flight.


----------



## Canabuc

Anyone else have 85t and using round aftermarket tips?
Did an experiment today as my spin fit 360 arrived.
Tried them in the XM3 and was pleased with comfort and sound. However they stick out a bit farther from the ears and feel like they wobble if I were to simulate running or exercising.

For fun decided to try to fit the tips on the Jabra 85t. Wow. They managed to go on were comfortable and had a nice fit and seal no movement was going to shake them loose. The sound changed however so I EQ'd them with Jose tips in and they sound fantastic.
Seems the bass was attenuated a bit so actually went to increase it whereas before it was adjusted below flat.
I also had to lower the mids a bit whereas before they were neutral to slightly bumpers up. And treble was same to very slightly reduced.

Soundstage and separation was as good as XM3. Vocals were a bit warmer and in the forefront compared to the Sony's. Bass and treble were very similar sounding between the 2. My only concern is no waxguard on the tips.

For reference I also see Misodiko has tips aftermarket for these as does an eBay seller. Also seems that the freebud pro have oval tips that word fit.

Would love to hear from more 85t users. To me they beat the Technics 1more and 75t sound handily. Find they are up there with the Sony. Some songs I prefer the Sony tuned sound others the 85t.

85t benefit are the ipx4,Qi charging, smaller case and bud size as well as better more secure fit with these tips. Also multi device pairing. You also have more control via the buttons which for me is a plus and buttons are more glocve and had friendly for us northerners.


ANC is too close to call but tests in house seems fan noise was blocked better by the 85t by a tiny bit.

Sony have maybe a  small overall sound benefit, but much closer than I thought. Also can use either but individually, though I don't really ever do that

More testing needed but am surprised these are not getting more love here. Must be because of a couple bad early reviews before firmware update and non conventional tips. But I have tried and can with a bit of effort had comy and spin fit tips go on and stay on securely while still fitting in the charger.


----------



## Canabuc

rhsauer said:


> They are about as wide, but they are short and oval, so it's not easy to find a third party tip that fits and stays on.  I'm using the medium smartcore Complys at the moment and you can get them on and they stay on reliably.


Just got my 85t and found even the Spinfit 360 can stay on well and make a great seal.


----------



## Luke Skywalker

So I just read a review of the Grado GT220 and it’s really tempting 

“the deep fit also helps them block out a good amount of noise without the use of ANC. It also allows the GT220 to provide a full range of sound with crisp highs and a robust low end”

Maybe this noise isolation will be adequate for my noise blocking needs... If the sound is as great as they say, it might be worth the trade off 

They also say a lot of good things about the Hifiman’s TWS800 but the fit and isolation don’t sound as good as the Grado

http://hifitrends.com/2020/11/13/gr...lling-bluetooth-earbuds-have-brilliant-sound/


----------



## chinmie

Luke Skywalker said:


> So I just read a review of the Grado GT220 and it’s really tempting
> 
> “the deep fit also helps them block out a good amount of noise without the use of ANC. It also allows the GT220 to provide a full range of sound with crisp highs and a robust low end”
> 
> ...



for me personally, no amount of passive isolation can replace the way ANC perform. even with the most deep insertion like the Etys or solid blocking like the KZ ZS3/4 (almost CIEM blocking at really cheap price). they would cut higher freq but the low freq rumbles still there, and i ended up putting more volume.. not good for the ears and for safety

for riding or walking on the street, i prefer my chifi ANC TWS because it doest have too much passive isolation, but still reduces rumbles and machine hums, so i can still hear small chatter of people, horns, vehicles approaching, and other important clues even with moderate background music playing


----------



## soullinker20

Luke Skywalker said:


> Hey guys,
> 
> So I have a good news bad news situation over here and I’m looking for some advice.
> 
> ...



I agree with @dweaver 
for your genre the technics az70 might serve you best. enough bass, more on mid to high mid and highs that's not piercing.


----------



## bladefd

Connected Melomania Touch. Very first thing I did was firmware update. They sound great - as great as Sony with soundstage of Sennheiser cx400bt. Only heard a few songs though so will need more time.

I turned off touch pad controls for now. I want to focus on the app and connection stability for now. 30 minutes in, and it's good & stable so far.

It is more comfortable than the cx400bt for sure, but not as comfortable as Sony xm3. I might need to try different size tips. Currently using default.


----------



## bladefd

I increased eartips size to 'large', which seem to be better for my ears.

I'm finding comfort issues with the selectable fin on Melomania Touch. I tried small and large but neither fit. It's either the default (which is medium) or none. Has anyone tried without the fins? Not sure if you need the fins for them to feel secure.


----------



## CocaCola15

I favor the large tips too. But don’t use the fins. Just make sure I seat them well. I may turn off the touch function, i use my iphone for volume and track skip etc.


----------



## bladefd

CocaCola15 said:


> I favor the large tips too. But don’t use the fins. Just make sure I seat them well. I may turn off the touch function, i use my iphone for volume and track skip etc.



Much more comfortable with fins off. After listening to music, I'm definitely sending the Sennheiser cx400bt back. If the Senns were more comfortable and had ambient mode, I would have kept them. Sony and Touch sound 95% just as good, are 10x more comfortable and have more features for similar cost.

I will have until monday to decide between Sony and Touch. I want to try Touch for couple days to see how good the connection stays. So far, they have worked without a problem but keeping my fingers crossed. Only issue I noticed so far is when I switched to AAC to test that versus aptx. Only 1 earbud turned on so I had sound on 1 side only. I switched back to aptx and suddenly had sound on both sides. I tried switching back & forth 3 times to test and am unable to replicate it even with AAC on.

I noted an interesting comment on different forums btw - perhaps connection issue could be affected by the phone?? I use Google Pixel 3 with latest android 11. Perhaps some phones have certain compatibility issues or older android version? I don't know about iOS so can't comment on iOS.


----------



## CocaCola15

Interesting re phone differences. I use an LG V20 at home as a DAP. Think I’ll connect the M Touch and check out aptx. See if that affects connectivity.


----------



## Luke Skywalker

soullinker20 said:


> I agree with @dweaver
> for your genre the technics az70 might serve you best. enough bass, more on mid to high mid and highs that's not piercing.


Thanks guys - just ordered them for $199 on Amazon!


----------



## Canabuc

Luke Skywalker said:


> Thanks guys - just ordered them for $199 on Amazon!


They have a nice clear sound with great mids for vocals and a reasonable comfortable fit. Has had that goes deep but not powerful.


----------



## dj24

Canabuc said:


> Anyone else have 85t and using round aftermarket tips?
> Did an experiment today as my spin fit 360 arrived.
> Tried them in the XM3 and was pleased with comfort and sound. However they stick out a bit farther from the ears and feel like they wobble if I were to simulate running or exercising.
> 
> ...





Canabuc said:


> Just got my 85t and found even the Spinfit 360 can stay on well and make a great seal.




Eagerly awaiting the 85t Actives..


----------



## ev13wt

Not there yet in 2020. 
Just go some FH3s and compared them to Technics (barely ok), Senn True MKII (ok), BO H5 (meh, treble monster). While the FH3 still has that metallic tinge it simply MURDERS the BT ones in all points.


----------



## bladefd

CocaCola15 said:


> Interesting re phone differences. I use an LG V20 at home as a DAP. Think I’ll connect the M Touch and check out aptx. See if that affects connectivity.



Now I see.

Initial pairing worked great. The problem is on trying to re-connect.. Only 1 esrbud re-connects. Other one does not reconnect. It's an inter-linking issue and not something that aptx would change unfortunately. Aptx impacts the phone to earbud connection but not interconnection between the earbuds. That is unfortunate..

I had to put earbuds in case and re-connect to get both connected this time. I am going to see if I can duplicate the issue and whether it happens everytime.


----------



## Pierre81

Hello everyone ! I’m new on the forum and I’m looking for a great pair of true wireless headphones. 
Not wishing to deceive me in my choice, I come to take advice here.

To summarize briefly, a few months ago, I bought the Airpods pro for their versatility and the good I heard of them. 
However, I got rid of them because I found them uncomfortable and their sound was not up to my expectations. 
After some research I hesitate between these models :


Bose QuietComfort Earbuds
Shure Aonic 215 True Wireless
Cambridge Audio Melomania Touch
Ultimate Ears UE Fits
1 More True Wireless ANC 

Concerning what I’m listening to, I’m mostly rock and roll oriented and I’m sometimes roaming (excluding covid, of course), so I need good insulation. I mainly listen to my music via my iPhone X or my Mac in mp3 file, in 320 kbps.
If you have any other suggestions, I would welcome them as well.

Thank you for your answers ! (Sorry for my English, but this is definitely not my mother tongue ).


----------



## Canabuc

Pierre81 said:


> Hello everyone ! I’m new on the forum and I’m looking for a great pair of true wireless headphones.
> Not wishing to deceive me in my choice, I come to take advice here.
> 
> To summarize briefly, a few months ago, I bought the Airpods pro for their versatility and the good I heard of them.
> ...


I would skip the 1more. Sound is dark and warm with no built in eq.
Battery life is poor and overtake volume is lacking.  If you want ANC I would lookvat the Sony or Jabra or Technicsdorms in what sound signature you like. 
Mtw or nose are more eq options as well.


----------



## vladzakhar

Noticed one thing with Melomanias Touch, it's only giving me connection problems when the app is running and connected to the buds. If it's off, the connect just fine.
Also, if the app is connected, one of the buds discharging much faster. Like 20% faster. My guess is that app is buggy. Not like I need it much. I can EQ it from within the music app on my phone. I also, like some other guys here, disable the touch controls. They too sensitive, especially when laying in bed on my side. I can confirm, that the battery life is close to their specs. I got 6.5 hours on one charge with high performance mode. And I am still thinking, that MT has the best sound quality from out of every TWS I had before.


----------



## tiagopinto

Tommy C said:


> One thing I like about Jabra is their app support, firmware updates and reliability.
> I have an old pair of Jabra Elite Sport with the heart rate monitor and sports app and they are going strong for 3 years, both battery and case are still perfectly fine and while technology has moved on in terms of sq they are still great as a daily driver when I don’t mind sacrificing sq for ease of use and reliability.



(a bit of topic, since they’re not really TW, but I thought it was interesting)

I still use my Jaybird Bluebuds X, from 2014. Also still going. The battery does not last as long as initially and the rubber on the wire is getting a bit sticky. But I can still workout in them. This was the first model, before they sold to Logitech, and it’s amazing how long these have lasted. Bluetooth 2.1! Unbelievable... but true.


----------



## bladefd

Canabuc said:


> I would skip the 1more. Sound is dark and warm with no built in eq.
> Battery life is poor and overtake volume is lacking.  If you want ANC I would lookvat the Sony or Jabra or Technicsdorms in what sound signature you like.
> Mtw or nose are more eq options as well.



@Pierre81 I would agree with those 3 options. You should try the Sony wf-1000xm3 and technics AZ70 if you can. I tried both of them. Technics had great sound but I didn't find them very comfortable. Sony were the perfect balance for me between sound and comfort, but lots of other posters here complain about fit issues. Your comfort might depend on your personal ears. For me, I preferred the Sony for sure.


----------



## bubsdaddy

Does anyone have any recommendations for buds that can be used while sleeping? I need isolation and buds that don't stick out so I can lie on my side. I'm really looking for tiny sized TWS.


----------



## Pierre81

Canabuc said:


> I would skip the 1more. Sound is dark and warm with no built in eq.
> Battery life is poor and overtake volume is lacking.  If you want ANC I would lookvat the Sony or Jabra or Technicsdorms in what sound signature you like.
> Mtw or nose are more eq options as well.


Thank you for your reply !

In your opinion, which between QC, MTW2 and Technics seems the best compromise ?
The sound quality seems very slightly better on the MTW2 and Technics but the isolation is much better on the Bose.


----------



## tombrisbane

bubsdaddy said:


> Does anyone have any recommendations for buds that can be used while sleeping? I need isolation and buds that don't stick out so I can lie on my side. I'm really looking for tiny sized TWS.


Do you need music or just noise for sleeping? I use the Bose sleepbuds 2 for sleep and they’re great, no issues on my side


----------



## bubsdaddy

I like to listen to music as I go to sleep and my wife is usually watching TV - hence the need for isolation also.


----------



## Canabuc

Jabra 85t are great too if they fit you


----------



## tinyman392

Pierre81 said:


> Hello everyone ! I’m new on the forum and I’m looking for a great pair of true wireless headphones.
> Not wishing to deceive me in my choice, I come to take advice here.
> 
> To summarize briefly, a few months ago, I bought the Airpods pro for their versatility and the good I heard of them.
> ...



Were you able to get a proper seal with the AirPods Pro?  If not that would affect sound quality.  Not a message to try them again, just a message about them in general.  The UE Fits has a signature similar to the APP, but with better bass presence and smoother treble.  Isolation is poor despite the good enough fit since the earbuds sit fairly shallow in the ear.  I'm not sure if the 215 Shure currently offers is like their original 215 model, but if it is, expect a V-shaped sound signature out of them.  Also note that it looks like their entire line of headphones is compatible with their True Wireless setup.  Other MMCX connected headphones may work with it too.


----------



## Enn Jott

Soooo I received the Melomanias today and while I can't really talk about soundquality and the like yet, some impressions from the reviews so far are pretty spot on. Some of the not so good ones i mean. First: Bass - to me it's just too much without EQing (which i try to avoid). Second: Made some calls from home and on the go (i live in Berlin so there is quite some street noise) and they mics are indeed way way way too silent. You sound like you're speaking 3-4 meters away from the phone at best. Next to sound quality mic quality is the most important feature for me. And this is a no-go. I really hope this can be fixed software wise so I'll write a mail to ask customer support. Has anyone else checked mic quality yet?


----------



## trivik12

I see multiple initial impressions for Galaxys buds pro pop up in my youtube feed. Quality of those reviews are not great but the product is interesting. Is it the 1st TWS earbud with ANC and ipx7 rating? Plus sound quality is better than buds plus which is positive. I might upgrade my phone from Galaxy S10 to S21 and so hope to get it for free.


----------



## Pierre81

tinyman392 said:


> Were you able to get a proper seal with the AirPods Pro?  If not that would affect sound quality.  Not a message to try them again, just a message about them in general.  The UE Fits has a signature similar to the APP, but with better bass presence and smoother treble.  Isolation is poor despite the good enough fit since the earbuds sit fairly shallow in the ear.  I'm not sure if the 215 Shure currently offers is like their original 215 model, but if it is, expect a V-shaped sound signature out of them.  Also note that it looks like their entire line of headphones is compatible with their True Wireless setup.  Other MMCX connected headphones may work with it too.


I have tried all of the ear tips that came with it, but none were able to make them comfortable for my ears. I think my ears are just not suitable for these headphones. 
I had the opportunity to try the shure SE215-CL a few years ago and I found them really great musically, as in terms of comfort.


----------



## Pierre81 (Jan 8, 2021)

Je viens de trouver ces écouteurs: https://www.devialet.com/en-us/true-wireless-earbuds/gemini/?country=US

Quelqu'un a-t-il eu la chance de les essayer ou d'obtenir un commentaire?


----------



## Pedro83

bubsdaddy said:


> I like to listen to music as I go to sleep and my wife is usually watching TV - hence the need for isolation also.


I bought Beats Flex for $30 on amazon last week. Noise isolation is excellent, and I can listen at pretty much any volume I wish without bothering my mrs in bed next to me so there's very little leakage. They're not the most refined sound wise, but for $30 (normally $50 iirc) I find them really good. wire behind the neck doesn't bother me at all. and they stay in fine regardless of where is head is on the pillow.


----------



## reiserFS

Anyone knows which store in Europe stocks the Melomania Touch's right now? Amazon Germany is out of stock.


----------



## jasonb

trivik12 said:


> I see multiple initial impressions for Galaxys buds pro pop up in my youtube feed. Quality of those reviews are not great but the product is interesting. Is it the 1st TWS earbud with ANC and ipx7 rating? Plus sound quality is better than buds plus which is positive. I might upgrade my phone from Galaxy S10 to S21 and so hope to get it for free.



The S21 and Buds pro should be announced in a few more days. The 14th I think.


----------



## Dregur

I think I'm going to keep the Melomania Touch. The sound is just too good. If they were more expensive, or if CA were a lesser known brand, I'd probably return them. I have enough work arounds to get them paired to my phone with consistency, but if they can fix all the software issues, these would be absolutely brilliant. I'll just do a small pro/cons list that I've found:

*Pros*:

- Probably the best sounding TWS I own (Galaxy Buds+, Mavin Air+, Oneplus Buds (I got them for free), Sony WF-1000MX3), and second is pretty far. It handles pretty much everything I throw at it, and the EQ actually works pretty well (but I do not use it).

-The fit works really well for me. They're also probably the best fitting TWS I own, I think CA nailed it there. I can wear them for a long time without any discomfort. I usually use foam tips, but I'm using the provided silicon tips, and they seal well for me.

-Magnets inside the case are solid , much better than the Galaxy Buds+ case magnets which if you look at them wrong, they'll fly out of the case.

-The app is actually pretty slick looking.

*Neutral:*

-Touch controls are uber sensitive, but they do work fairly well. I've adapted to the taking out and adjusting them using the edges of the earbuds, as there deep enough depth to the earbuds that my fat fingers don't active the controls by accident.

*Cons*:

Software software software:

-Bugs a plenty. Pairing/re-pairing can be a bit hit and miss. There's still plenty of times I have to manually connect the earbuds to my phone because it doesn't automatically pair out of the case. Or I have to turn on both or one of the buds when I take them out of the case (touch controls for 3 seconds), when they should automatically turn on when I take them out of the case. 

-Sometimes the connection becomes unstable for a couple of seconds. I will say I haven't really walked around with them due to the pandemic.

-Someone mentioned that they heard some delays between actions between the two earbuds, and I can absolutely verify that does happen at times, no more than a second, but it does happen.

-One of the two ear buds sometimes don't turn back on when taking the buds out of the case, have to touch for 3 seconds to turn back on, and then it will usually autopair back. Not sure why it doesn't turn back on sometimes.

Hardware:

-The biggest complaint is the case feels bad. It creaks, it doesn't fit together quite right, the hinge is really really bad, and it feels cheap.


----------



## bladefd (Jan 8, 2021)

reiserFS said:


> Anyone knows which store in Europe stocks the Melomania Touch's right now? Amazon Germany is out of stock.



Someone mentioned couple pages earlier that CA temporarily removed the Touch from Amazon Europe due to the complaints. I don't know tbh because I still see them listed on Amazon USA counterpart.


----------



## JWAR1976

Since the pandemic started last March I have avoided public transport as much as possible and started enjoying walks more while listening to music and in the last couple of weeks I have been wanting to get better earbuds.  However it is quite shocking that despite the wonders of technology, there are not many earbuds available with multipoint, I could be wrong but the only ones I am seeing are the Jabra range, so now I am looking at going back in time design wise at over ear design headphones but with multipoint.


----------



## bladefd

Dregur said:


> I think I'm going to keep the Melomania Touch. The sound is just too good. If they were more expensive, or if CA were a lesser known brand, I'd probably return them. I have enough work arounds to get them paired to my phone with consistency, but if they can fix all the software issues, these would be absolutely brilliant. I'll just do a small pro/cons list that I've found:
> 
> *Pros*:
> 
> ...



I personally turned off the touch controls to avoid that issue. I mean I did the same on the Sony & Sennheiser as well. I guess I just don't feel comfortable with touch controls. A lot of people do use them and swear by them though so they might have issues with oversensitive touch controls.

I personally had no issue with initial pairing. The problem is with subsequent connections, which is probably what you are referring to. They turn off for me while in case so I had to turn them on by holding down both earbuds until they start blinking red/blue. It doesn't connect instantly as soon as you pull them out of the case. That needs to be fixed in firmware update ASAP.

With transparency mode, I noticed there is almost a fluctuation in transparency connection. It's tough to explain. It's occasionally though rather than every time.

I think the connection issue when taking them out of the case is the #1 issue I have with them. It's a pressing issue, and I'm curious if it's a software issue that can be fixed through firmware or something hardware related & needs to be replaced.


----------



## bladefd (Jan 9, 2021)

Touch is getting frustrating. Took them out of the case and only left side connected. I put them back in the case, took them out but again only left side connected. I unpaired them in Bluetooth settings. I held down both earbuds for 10secs to reset them while in the case and got them paired. Unfortunately, right side wouldn't connect. I reset them again but still right side won't connect. I put them back in the case, closed it and took them out again. This time, same issue - melomania app shows only the left earbud. I became so frustrated that I just went to the Sony xm3, which connected instantly and currently using the Sony.

I am thinking of giving up on the Touch.. Now I realize why several of you returned them. This is aggravating, but I will try couple more days to give it my all before giving up. All I want to do is listen to my music - it's not worth the frustration.


----------



## Thesonofkrypton (Jan 9, 2021)

bladefd said:


> Touch is getting frustrating. Took them out of the case and only left side connected. I put them back in the case, took them out but again only left side connected. I unpaired them in Bluetooth settings. I held down both earbuds for 10secs to reset them while in the case and got them paired. Unfortunately, right side wouldn't connect. I reset them again but still right side won't connect. I put them back in the case, closed it and took them out again. This time, same issue - melomania app shows only the left earbud. I became so frustrated that I just went to the Sony xm3, which connected instantly and currently using the Sony.
> 
> I am thinking of giving up on the Touch.. Now I realize why several of you returned them. This is aggravating, but I will try couple more days to give it my all before giving up. All I want to do is listen to my music - it's not worth the frustration.



it’s a real shame that I had to return mine, sound was pretty decent. But going back to the XM3, I realise now I can live with their fit, the sound and hassle free connection is just great. Hoping the XM4 are announced soon at CES 🤞 if Sony change the fit to be more like Melomania Touch, then that’s all I need, as I’ve not heard anything that is as good as the ANC on the XM3.


----------



## Enn Jott

Sending the Melomanias back as well, after just about 24hrs of having them. Why you may ask? Here is why:

I liked: Imaging, separation, comfort (!) and fit

Did not like: Timbre, bass quantity and the narrowish soundstage

Neutral: Touch and pairing worked ok but not as easy as Air Pod Pros

No-Gos: Too silent when calling someone (people can barely hear you)

For some reason to my ears (with smaller tips than i would normally use) the Airpods soundstage is huge, almost like an open back headphone. Going to the Melomanias therefore sounded disappointing right away. The dominant bass gives them a darkish sound signature that just doesn't go along with my studio headphones and speakers. Maybe i was expecting too much? If these are among the top tiers for true wireless in ears it's disappointing. Of course it's a matter of preference and i do enjoy the neutralish (boring) Air Pod Pros alot more but they too lack refinement (detail retrieval, treble and so on) while still being a much much better product. Too bad 

I bought them from Cambridge Audios Marketplace on Amazon Germany on the 1. of January btw. As of now they are not available anymore. Cambridge Audio probably knows why ...


----------



## clerkpalmer

This experience is similar to the Devialet Gemini. Trying to figure out how connection problems are still a thing in 2021. I would think any off the shelf chipset should solve this but I guess not.


----------



## kolbo

clerkpalmer said:


> This experience is similar to the Devialet Gemini. Trying to figure out how connection problems are still a thing in 2021. I would think any off the shelf chipset should solve this but I guess not.


Same here. I’m still holding on to the Gemini in the hope they will fix things as the sound is great, but my main driver is the 85t - everything just works there.


----------



## Canabuc

Pierre81 said:


> Thank you for your reply !
> 
> In your opinion, which between QC, MTW2 and Technics seems the best compromise ?
> The sound quality seems very slightly better on the MTW2 and Technics but the isolation is much better on the Bose.


Really depends on your needs.  Nice had no built in EQ. So if you don't like the tuning it is not as easy to EQ. How important is ANC? Battery life? Wireless charging? 
Sounds wise haven't heard those 2 as I feel the price is too steep for me for a product I will likely upgrade in 2 years max.


----------



## clerkpalmer

kolbo said:


> Same here. I’m still holding on to the Gemini in the hope they will fix things as the sound is great, but my main driver is the 85t - everything just works there.


I’ll be waiting until the 59th day to decide. They definitely need to fix it. Never had this issue with the big manufacturers like Bose, Sony etc. Even the chifi do not have this issue.


----------



## bronco1015

clerkpalmer said:


> The ANC is so bad on the MTW2, I cannot imagine any reason to buy the MTW2 over the CX400.  It's worthless.  That makes the CX400 a steal at $130 assuming it sounds exactly the same as the MTW2.


The ANC on my MTW2 was underwhelming until the firmware update in october i believe it was. now it's much improoved, to at least be in the same conversation with the Technics, 85T and QC earbuds. high end tuning makes a miniscule difference to my ears. I still prefer my eqed tuning of OG MTW.


----------



## kolbo

clerkpalmer said:


> I’ll be waiting until the 59th day to decide. They definitely need to fix it. Never had this issue with the big manufacturers like Bose, Sony etc. Even the chifi do not have this issue.


My issue is that the 85t fit me so well. They do not sound bad either. I can wear them all day with no discomfort- I never managed to get that with my Andromedas...


----------



## clerkpalmer

bronco1015 said:


> The ANC on my MTW2 was underwhelming until the firmware update in october i believe it was. now it's much improoved, to at least be in the same conversation with the Technics, 85T and QC earbuds. high end tuning makes a miniscule difference to my ears. I still prefer my eqed tuning of OG MTW.


QC? Really? Mine are not even close to that.


----------



## bronco1015

clerkpalmer said:


> QC? Really? Mine are not even close to that.


The QC are better over all to my ears, as they block a wider range of sound, but the MTW2 does well blocking low rumbling sounds for the limited times i've been out and about or over Christmas when i traveled etc.


----------



## X-Nemesis

I received the EarFun Pro's a few weeks back and so far my only gripe with them has been that no matter which tips I use, they keep doing the slow slide out.  Are there any recommendations for tips for this TWS that could fix that issue?


----------



## bladefd

Thesonofkrypton said:


> it’s a real shame that I had to return mine, sound was pretty decent. But going back to the XM3, I realise now I can live with their fit, the sound and hassle free connection is just great. Hoping the XM4 are announced soon at CES 🤞 if Sony change the fit to be more like Melomania Touch, then that’s all I need, as I’ve not heard anything that is as good as the ANC on the XM3.



I posted this elsewhere but I love the Sony except for the huge size and lack of ipx4. Touch has everything I want including perfect size and ipx4. Just the damn connection issue is driving me nuts since yesterday.

I might have to suck up the large size. Ipx4 I really don't need since I won't be taking them outside, but I worry about sweat.


----------



## jant71

X-Nemesis said:


> I received the EarFun Pro's a few weeks back and so far my only gripe with them has been that no matter which tips I use, they keep doing the slow slide out.  Are there any recommendations for tips for this TWS that could fix that issue?



Azla Xelastec should take care of that.


----------



## Thesonofkrypton

bladefd said:


> I posted this elsewhere but I love the Sony except for the huge size and lack of ipx4. Touch has everything I want including perfect size and ipx4. Just the damn connection issue is driving me nuts since yesterday.
> 
> I might have to suck up the large size. Ipx4 I really don't need since I won't be taking them outside, but I worry about sweat.



I was never worried about the lack of an IP rating with the Sonys, I’ve had them since they first came out and I’ve ran in them a few times, went to the gym, in light rain and never once had an issue, it’s just the fit for me could be more comfy like the Touch - which I think are perfect.

I saw that Sony dropped some new home speakers today out the blue so hopefully the XM4 are incoming!


----------



## Thesonofkrypton

Kudos to Cambridge Audio for their decent customer service though with handling the return. They refunded me when the item was scanned at the drop off point and without them receiving it yet.


----------



## jant71

Thesonofkrypton said:


> I saw that Sony dropped some new home speakers today out the blue so hopefully the XM4 are incoming!



They have to have something right? The headphones are already out and the microLED TV's were done 2 days ago and the speakers. Gotta have something left for the CES week.


----------



## dweaver

Between the CA Touch issues and the delays on the Status Between Pro and how much I am enjoying the AZ70 I am glad I took the leap and that they worked out for me as I don't have to go through any of the hassles your all dealing with. I am still hoping the Between Pro sound awesome though and look forward to reading the reviews and impressions when people get them.


----------



## assassin10000

jant71 said:


> Azla Xelastec should take care of that.



Or foam.


----------



## Canabuc

tma6 said:


> The 85ts are my favorite TWS to date


Got them this week and have been experimenting with different tips and eq settings. Now back on largest tips stock and eq up in treble and tiny flat in mid and  a tiny bump up in upper bass flat in bass and they sound sound great.

Similar sound as the Sony XM3 but with slightly softer but more forward mids.
Kind of like the Technics mids and XM3 for rest. Fitis comfortable and outside the first few minutes where they felt a but loose after wearing for 5 or 10 minutes they feel snug and no amount of head shake make them loose.

For me a huge plus is the hearthrough AnC are great and having buttons really help in Canadian winter. Went snow showing hat on today with family. Volume at 25% hearthrough on. Was great and cod easily push buttons with gloves on through my winter hat.

I know Jabra not thought of as an audiophile brand but they really did an amazing job on these with the new drivers and shape.

The sound is very tunable.  It has a wider sound stage with clearer mids and highs than is predecessor.  And while the bass is not as heavy it as good as the XM3 and better than most buds I have tested.  

People really should reconsider them.  Outside of independent left and right(right use only)  they have every feature you could want in a tws.


----------



## Canabuc

kolbo said:


> My issue is that the 85t fit me so well. They do not sound bad either. I can wear them all day with no discomfort- I never managed to get that with my Andromedas...






Using this EQ setting with 85t.
Really enjoying even with the stock tips


----------



## Canabuc

dweaver said:


> Between the CA Touch issues and the delays on the Status Between Pro and how much I am enjoying the AZ70 I am glad I took the leap and that they worked out for me as I don't have to go through any of the hassles your all dealing with. I am still hoping the Between Pro sound awesome though and look forward to reading the reviews and impressions when people get them.


The Technics were a good bud overall but I did return them. They were too bass light for me.  The overall volume was too low as well especially for workouts. I am using the 85t at the moment and am feeling I am getting a nice sound somewhat in between the Sony and the Technics. Comfortable, Qi charging, great ANC and easy to EQ. Nice small case too. Would not have bought them at the initial 300$cdn price but got the for 215$cdn on Amazon. So have easy return option unlike best buy where can't return ear buds.
@dweaver Of you have a chance yet them. I know you said you like a warmer sound and these before EQ are warmer than the AZ70.


----------



## CocaCola15

bladefd said:


> Touch is getting frustrating. Took them out of the case and only left side connected. I put them back in the case, took them out but again only left side connected. I unpaired them in Bluetooth settings. I held down both earbuds for 10secs to reset them while in the case and got them paired. Unfortunately, right side wouldn't connect. I reset them again but still right side won't connect. I put them back in the case, closed it and took them out again. This time, same issue - melomania app shows only the left earbud. I became so frustrated that I just went to the Sony xm3, which connected instantly and currently using the Sony.
> 
> I am thinking of giving up on the Touch.. Now I realize why several of you returned them. This is aggravating, but I will try couple more days to give it my all before giving up. All I want to do is listen to my music - it's not worth the frustration.


Sorry to say I am going to follow this route unless there is a miracle fix in the next couple of days. I very much like the sound signature, but two things have become obvious. Conectivity out of the case is way too wonky for reliable use. Also, I notice on the app the the right bud only charges to 50%, while the left one is at 100%. Something not right with the right bud, as noted with both of our usage. Not sure how a reputable outfit like CA put these out on the market, but this is a serious fail.

The upside is once they are connected and I leave the house, they stay connected. But the other day, had a doctor visit, walked there (after the initial connection whack a mole) and they sounded great. When it was time to walk home, had to spend 5 minutes in the building lobby getting them connected (both sides) again, out of the case. 

I doubt this is going to get fixed via firmware. So before I have to make a payment on my Amazon credit account, I probably will ship them back. I still have the M1s here, which I used today and they are rock solid, excellent sound.

And as noted, I am prepaid for a Status Audio Between Pro, which appear to be ready to ship. They are triple driver BT in-ear phones, with ANC. Weird looking, but at $79 as an early Indiegogo buyer, worth a shot. I have the Status Audio BT One on-ear BT phones and find them amazing for the price ($49 on Amazon sale). So trying to be optimistic, even if it is an Indiegogo purchase.


----------



## C_Lindbergh

I hope CA will come out with some sort of statement about the issues. Instead of being dead silent about it publicly like Sennheiser was with the battery drain issue. 

I'll deffo buy them once we know that all issues are fixed.


----------



## Dregur (Jan 9, 2021)

CocaCola15 said:


> Sorry to say I am going to follow this route unless there is a miracle fix in the next couple of days. I very much like the sound signature, but two things have become obvious. Conectivity out of the case is way too wonky for reliable use. Also, I notice on the app the the right bud only charges to 50%, while the left one is at 100%. Something not right with the right bud, as noted with both of our usage. Not sure how a reputable outfit like CA put these out on the market, but this is a serious fail.
> 
> The upside is once they are connected and I leave the house, they stay connected. But the other day, had a doctor visit, walked there (after the initial connection whack a mole) and they sounded great. When it was time to walk home, had to spend 5 minutes in the building lobby getting them connected (both sides) again, out of the case.
> 
> ...



Have you tried waiting a couple of seconds for the led's to turn on before taking them out of the case? I've have much better success doing that. At the very least, even if one of the earbuds doesn't flash the LED's I know I need to hold the touch controls for a couple of seconds to turn them back, and they'll re-pair automatically.

Don't get me wrong, still a huge issue, but I can at least use the earbuds with some consistency and actually enjoy them.


----------



## vladzakhar

I see some guys returning their Touches. Not me, still love them: sound, comfort, battery life and the low price. Yes, they have some connection issues. Maybe, sometimes I need to touch one earbud to wake it up. But when they connected, the connection is rock solid. I just don't use the app which is making the buds buggy. If it's off, they work just fine.
I bought Gemini Devialets and they have way more connection issues. I returned them in 3 days. Couldn't handle it.
I will definitely keep my pair of MT, hoping that they will fix these issues with the new firmware, I still have 55 days to decide. That's plenty of time.


----------



## Dregur

C_Lindbergh said:


> I hope CA will come out with some sort of statement about the issues. Instead of being dead silent about it publicly like Sennheiser was with the battery drain issue.
> 
> I'll deffo buy them once we know that all issues are fixed.



It was posted before, but CA sent an email to people that bought them through their website before many of us actually recieved them:

"Thank you for purchasing our Melomania Touch earphones. We’re excited that you are one of the first to own them.


We’re also completely committed to your satisfaction - it’s extremely important to us that you enjoy these earphones, so we constantly seek feedback on what can be improved, and we’re here should you need any help. 

Since the launch of Melomania Touch we’ve become aware of a few things that we could have done better and apologise if your user experience has been less than perfect. Learning from initial feedback, we have come up with some tips which may ease possible frustration.

To improve your product as time goes on, we will make regular firmware updates, so check the Melomania App and update your firmware to enjoy these ongoing enhancements and bug fixes. For some users, updating firmware or changing Audio Mode can require one or more attempts if the Bluetooth connection isn’t completely stable. If this happens, check the earphones are still connected in your phone’s Bluetooth settings and try again. *We’re actively working on a firmware fix that will ensure a seamless experience first time, every time*."


----------



## Tommy C

A bit disappointed to read all the bad review re the CA Melomania Touch as I was hoping to get them but with wonky connectivity, fragile case hinges and questionable app and battery it’s a no go.


----------



## C_Lindbergh

Dregur said:


> It was posted before, but CA sent an email to people that bought them through their website before many of us actually recieved them:
> 
> "Thank you for purchasing our Melomania Touch earphones. We’re excited that you are one of the first to own them.
> 
> ...



Oh, much better response compared to Sennheiser.


----------



## X-Nemesis

jant71 said:


> Azla Xelastec should take care of that.


Thanks


----------



## bladefd (Jan 9, 2021)

vladzakhar said:


> I see some guys returning their Touches. Not me, still love them: sound, comfort, battery life and the low price. Yes, they have some connection issues. Maybe, sometimes I need to touch one earbud to wake it up. But when they connected, the connection is rock solid. I just don't use the app which is making the buds buggy. If it's off, they work just fine.
> I bought Gemini Devialets and they have way more connection issues. I returned them in 3 days. Couldn't handle it.
> I will definitely keep my pair of MT, hoping that they will fix these issues with the new firmware, I still have 55 days to decide. That's plenty of time.



Do you have any issues with only one earbud having sound and other one doesn't?



Dregur said:


> Have you tried waiting a couple of seconds for the led's to turn on before taking them out of the case? I've have much better success doing that. At the very least, even if one of the earbuds doesn't flash the LED's I know I need to hold the touch controls for a couple of seconds to turn them back, and they'll re-pair automatically.
> 
> Don't get me wrong, still a huge issue, but I can at least use the earbuds with some consistency and actually enjoy them.



So you open the case and wait for both earbuds to light up. If one of them don't light up, you hold the touch control to turn that one on. As long as both have the light on, they re-pair automatically as soon as you remove them from the case. Is that correct? (or do they pair while inside the case?)

Are you able to consistently get it to connect that way?


----------



## CocaCola15 (Jan 9, 2021)

Dregur said:


> Have you tried waiting a couple of seconds for the led's to turn on before taking them out of the case? I've have much better success doing that. At the very least, even if one of the earbuds doesn't flash the LED's I know I need to hold the touch controls for a couple of seconds to turn them back, and they'll re-pair automatically.
> 
> Don't get me wrong, still a huge issue, but I can at least use the earbuds with some consistency and actually enjoy them.


The connectivity issue is a bit of a pain, but not the only thing. I am concerned that the app keeps telling me the right bud is much less powered than than the left (when check, the left one is 100% and the right one 50%). The right bud is the one that seems to have out of the case connection issues too. The left connects easily with my BT connection (iPhone 8+), but the right is the one that I have to keep pressing, messing with, etc. At this stage of wireless in-ear development, I am a bit surprised that CA released them with a known issue (judging by that little yellow piece of paper in the box mentioned a couple of pages back).

I have 60 days to return them, but want to decide before my first payment is due using my Amazon Store card (6 months same as cash). So I have time. If a FW update can get it all fixed, great. We'll see.


----------



## vladzakhar

bladefd said:


> Do you have any issues with only one earbud having sound and other one doesn't?


I have no issues having the sound for both earbuds, as long as the turned on and connected. They don't connect, if they are in the case, even with open lid. Sometimes, when I take them out of the case, only one bud getting connected, left or right, When in my ears I have to press the other bud to turn it on and it's  connected in a second and start playing music from both earbuds. Yes, it's a little inconvenient, but not the deal breaker for me. I hope they will be able to fix it via firmware.


----------



## Dregur

bladefd said:


> Do you have any issues with only one earbud having sound and other one doesn't?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Correct on both counts. They pair when I remove the earbuds from the case.


----------



## vladzakhar

CocaCola15 said:


> The connectivity issue is a bit of a pain, but not the only thing. I am concerned that the app keeps telling me the right bud is much less powered than than the left (when check, the left one is 100% and the right one 50%).


I am pretty sure it the app fault. I have the same issue when the app is running all the time on the background. In the bluetooth properties of my phone I can see that one of the buds connected twice when the app is running. When it's off, only one bud is connected and the other one is disconnected. This is how it's suppose to be. When I briefly turn on the app, the battery levels of both buds are about the same. This app is buggy as hell.


----------



## vladzakhar

Also, you have to make sure that both earbuds are sitting in the case correctly and slowly flashing red. When they charging. They have a little flow with these robber rings arrowed earbuds. Especially medium and large. The hole for them is too tide and sometimes earbuds don't sit on the contacts correctly because of that. Lol, can't fix this via software, though.


----------



## Luke Skywalker (Jan 9, 2021)

Canabuc said:


> They have a nice clear sound with great mids for vocals and a reasonable comfortable fit. Has had that goes deep but not powerful.


Hey I just got them but i’m only getting sound out of the left bud for some reason after pairing . I can use the touch controls on the right bud

... user error apparently   they sound incredible dude. stardust by Katie Melua on tidal


----------



## Luke Skywalker

Exactly what I was looking for.  Take out of case, stick in ears, hit play. I‘m pretty OCD so when there’s a bunch of settings I’m always monkeying around with the settings and I feel like it’s never right 

I honestly think they might sound better than the Bose I lost.  The fit is amazing with the tips that were on them. My beloved N6P’s are always popping out and the Bose didn’t have a solid fit either 

thanks For the great recommendation. Glad to have these before a vacation I have coming up


----------



## bladefd

Dregur said:


> Correct on both counts. They pair when I remove the earbuds from the case.



Yeah, another person also mentioned it to me on another forum that it might be a charging issue.

Right bud only lights up sometimes but usually it has no light. I have to often jiggle it around inside the case to get it to light up red. If I manually turn it on, it automatically turns off after like 30 seconds. I'm pretty sure the right bud is not charged and is not charging.

Left bud works perfectly every single time and shows up in app as 100% charged. Right one doesn't show up in app.


----------



## bladefd

vladzakhar said:


> I have no issues having the sound for both earbuds, as long as the turned on and connected. They don't connect, if they are in the case, even with open lid. Sometimes, when I take them out of the case, only one bud getting connected, left or right, When in my ears I have to press the other bud to turn it on and it's  connected in a second and start playing music from both earbuds. Yes, it's a little inconvenient, but not the deal breaker for me. I hope they will be able to fix it via firmware.



What size eartip do you use? And do you use the wing?

I noticed this began happening around the time I changed to large eartips and removed the wing so I'm curious if it is related. I believe @CocaCola15 also uses large eartips & removed the wing (correct me if I'm wrong). We both have same charging issue and also in right earbud..


----------



## chinmie

a cheaper competitor to Bose's
https://www.theverge.com/platform/a...frames-open-ear-headphones-price-release-date


----------



## CocaCola15

bladefd said:


> What size eartip do you use? And do you use the wing?
> 
> I noticed this began happening around the time I changed to large eartips and removed the wing so I'm curious if it is related. I believe @CocaCola15 also uses large eartips & removed the wing (correct me if I'm wrong). We both have same charging issue and also in right earbud..


You are right. The right bud is about half of the charge that the left has, and is the side that does not connect to BT without a lot of fiddling around. I think as someone mentioned the right bud is not charging properly. I might pull off the tip and see if that matters. I use large tips. No seal with others.


----------



## CocaCola15

Just gave the M Touch a chance to connect (left them in the case for.a few secs before I pressed the touch pad). They both went on and I never turned on the app. I can use the EQ on my Kaiser Audio app if I need it. So maybe not giving up yet.


----------



## bladefd (Jan 10, 2021)

CocaCola15 said:


> Just gave the M Touch a chance to connect (left them in the case for.a few secs before I pressed the touch pad). They both went on and I never turned on the app. I can use the EQ on my Kaiser Audio app if I need it. So maybe not giving up yet.



I noticed you have to push a bit harder on the pin side. I tried pushing a bit harder and now the right one began to charge. I let them charge for half hour, reset them and they both work now. Going to try pushing bit harder on the pin side until red light turns on. If red light doesn't turn on then I will assume they need to be removed+placed back until red light turns on.

In comparison, the Sony you just throw on top and you shut the lid - the magnet is automatic without any further hassle, pushing or jiggling around.


----------



## munsi

Hello Fellas,

looking for 2 pairs of tws earbuds for $50 or less.

We lost our AirPods Pro last month. And We’ve been researching, and reading a lot of your posts in this category, but my girl’s vacation is over soon and she needs one for work.

My girl is strictly looking for a tws airbuds with a similar fitting style to the AirPods / AirPods Pro. I can go for the same, or an IER only if it delivers better sound quality at this price point.

We appreciated the AirPods Pro sound, and we liked it had a decent full sound with punchy bass / mids. It had cool Features, but we’ve heard better. highest sound quality with a bit of an added bass (if possible) on the lower ends is what matters the most to us at this price point.

Thanks


----------



## Peddler

For their price you can't beat the Lypertek Tevi's (neutral and really REALLY nice sound quality) or the Apollo Bold (lots of bass - great for low volume listening and noise reduction). They don't share the same styling as the Airpod Pro's but they're definitely up there regarding sound quality, features and price.


----------



## munsi

Peddler said:


> For their price you can't beat the Lypertek Tevi's (neutral and really REALLY nice sound quality) or the Apollo Bold (lots of bass - great for low volume listening and noise reduction). They don't share the same styling as the Airpod Pro's but they're definitely up there regarding sound quality, features and price.



Hi, thanks for the recommendation, I really appreciate it. I’m ok with the IER, but my girl is only looking for that has a similar fit style as AirPods / AirPods Pro / JLab air executive..etc. let me know if you know of any.

would neutral sound have a sound profile, and bass that’s similar to the AirPods Pro?

Honestly if I had it my way I’d probably be buying a IER Momentum 2. But we’re saving up for a home theatre system 😫


----------



## Dregur (Jan 10, 2021)

CocaCola15 said:


> You are right. The right bud is about half of the charge that the left has, and is the side that does not connect to BT without a lot of fiddling around. I think as someone mentioned the right bud is not charging properly. I might pull off the tip and see if that matters. I use large tips. No seal with others.



Yeah, after doing more testing with the connection, I am leaning towards something weird with the right earbud and it's fit inside the case. I still think there is something buggy with the firmware, but I've gotten better results if I ensure that the right bud is fitting within the case and charging correctly (I believe it is set it correctly if it flashes alternate red white red), usually by letting the magnets and gravity do it's work. However, I have noticed that the sound of the earbuds going in sounded differently going into the left and right.

My theory at this point is that there is actually something physically wrong with the battery case with how the right bud specifically sits in the case (and please do take this with a grain of salt, I don't have the right equipment or really the know how to check with any certainty). But after observing the sounds of the earbud going into the case, and observing the right tended to sound more muffled going in, I took a look how the earbuds were sitting in the case with large tips, and any of the wings. Something I noticed is the gap of the left earbud when it's seated in the case is wider than the gap on the right. I can stick a pin between the bottom of the earbud and the case with much greater ease on the left side, than right. That's probably why removing the wings can lead to better results, those wings go all the way around the top and bottom of the earbud, probably sticking out just enough to fill in the slightly smaller gap on the right preventing it from charging correctly.

Again, this is a theory, I'm sure there's probably someone with the correct tools that could verify or debunk it.


----------



## CocaCola15 (Jan 10, 2021)

So I am torn ... again. This is only in terms of connecting to my iPhone and sound quality. Now that I have been a bit more patient with the right bud starting up (I push on it and when the red light comes on, I take them out, takes a second or two), I am having little trouble getting them to work properly. I am NOT starting up the app, however, using my onboard EQ if I need it (using either Kaiser Tone or Apple Music players), which I haven't so far (keeping EQ flat). My usage is practically ALL based on content already on my iPhone (12,000 or so tracks), not streaming. I only use streaming at home, with full-size or on-ear phones; In-ears are primarily for out and about. Just my preferences. I don't like having IEMs in use indoors, don't think they compete mano a mano with my headphones.

Anyway, the idea that the case is somehow blocking full charging with the right bud using the large tips is a true bummer. I guess I can try seating the right bud without a tip and see if that makes any difference, but what a PITA.

If that turns out to be the case and the right bud is not charging at full strength (that is, if the Melomania app is accurate), then CA has a serious problem on its hands. Remaking the case? Not even sure what they will do if it turns out to be true.

Having said all that, my morning trek with the dog on a beautiful sunny day was made all the more rich with the sound of some serious jazz coming through the M Touch phones. And somewhere someone mentioned a lousy sound stage for these phones. I hear the opposite. Are they over-bassy? To some perhaps, but not me. Different strokes. I find the treble amazing, never a harsh note.

Finally, IMHO as is the case with many accurate, right-sounding phones, bad recordings sound bad. The M Touch won't cover up poorly recorded/mastered tracks. Which is as it should be. Any track that comes up and sounds poor, I go to the next track. The hazards of listening to all styles and types of music, I suppose.


----------



## jant71 (Jan 10, 2021)

chinmie said:


> a cheaper competitor to Bose's
> https://www.theverge.com/platform/a...frames-open-ear-headphones-price-release-date



Not too into the glasses thing plus I think they can use this tech to be better and have more bass than bone conduction but a can be bit too far away in glasses though these could be moved for a better performance if need be(BOSE did improve their sound/design in the 2.0 update). Problem is Jlab is too average consumer. They might be pretty good but they don't seem to want to try to be really good sounding. I like what Jlab is doing but hope they would try to go to a higher level of SQ.

Maybe these could use the headband mod... 


...pop the stops off and slide off the arms. Could be an experiment since it would be cheap.


----------



## jant71

Since I was interested I was investigating the BOSE Sport Open Buds and it seems the bad design extends to more than just not integrating charging into the case. They try to cover it up but the ear hook part is only flexible behind the ear. So, it is rigid and can pinch the ear where it goes over. Rigid means you can't adjust for comfort or to aim the speakers some. The comfort and being able to aim the angle of the speakers is critical for this design. The crook of the design being rigid till this line...



...was absolutely not the way to go. How they let them end up with it done this way for both the fit/comfort and reliability of attaining the proper sound and case/charging is quite miserable for 2021 and from a brand that is not exactly new and working out kinks. Even with the risk free returns I don't think I will try these.


----------



## Canabuc

Well have been tweaking the EQ settings on the 85t and comparing them to the Sony XM3. I have them tuned where they sound 95% identical. Sony has slightly crisper vocals but the treble, bass and soundstage and overall sound are almost identical!.
They are both great buds and the Jabra cost me about 12$more only. But for that get smaller case QI charging better controls. Overall they seem to stay in my ears a bit better though the Sony's seem to fit better than when I first got them.
Overall volume is maybe 2% in favor of the Sony.

Battery life test today would give me about 6 hours with ANC on at 60% volume.


----------



## bladefd

Canabuc said:


> Well have been tweaking the EQ settings on the 85t and comparing them to the Sony XM3. I have them tuned where they sound 95% identical. Sony has slightly crisper vocals but the treble, bass and soundstage and overall sound are almost identical!.
> They are both great buds and the Jabra cost me about 12$more only. But for that get smaller case QI charging better controls. Overall they seem to stay in my ears a bit better though the Sony's seem to fit better than when I first got them.
> Overall volume is maybe 2% in favor of the Sony.
> 
> Battery life test today would give me about 6 hours with ANC on at 60% volume.



How does comfort compare?

If I jump ship from Melomania Touch, I have to figure out another option to try or just keeping the Sony. I got the Sony for $158 when prices dropped for a few weeks in December. You said Jabra is worth $12 extra over Sony, but is it worth $70 more???


----------



## Canabuc

bladefd said:


> How does comfort compare?
> 
> If I jump ship from Melomania Touch, I have to figure out another option to try or just keeping the Sony. I got the Sony for $158 when prices dropped for a few weeks in December. You said Jabra is worth $12 extra over Sony, but is it worth $70 more???


That is hard question. I kind of feel that 175$US is my max budget on tws earbuds. Reason being that technology really improved every 2 years making connection battery life and sound quality better. Over ear Bluetooth already have great sound and battery and usually better connectivity so would rather in verst there. Still love my p7w from B&W and my master and dynamic mw50 on ears.
Right now many sales on the Jabra Elite 85t for around 175 and at that price worth it. Buy from somewhere you can return and test them. I can send you my EQ settings. Stock eartips.


----------



## bladefd

Canabuc said:


> That is hard question. I kind of feel that 175$US is my max budget on tws earbuds. Reason being that technology really improved every 2 years making connection battery life and sound quality better. Over ear Bluetooth already have great sound and battery and usually better connectivity so would rather in verst there. Still love my p7w from B&W and my master and dynamic mw50 on ears.
> Right now many sales on the Jabra Elite 85t for around 175 and at that price worth it. Buy from somewhere you can return and test them. I can send you my EQ settings. Stock eartips.



Hmm, price for 85t must have gone back up. Shows $229. I most won't likely spend over $200 for earbuds. 

I guess Sony at $158 is tough to beat. Only the Touch can beat that cost/value ratio but charging issue makes it a difficult choice.


----------



## chinmie

i bought the Tivo TWS Neo last week after seeing a really good deal, and also since lately I've been using the Onyx Ace more often than my other TWS. 
i was excited to see the Aptx adaptive and sound EQ, but it turns out that it only works on some select Vivo phones.. i guess i didn't do enough research. 

but on the plus side, after putting some silicone sleeves this sounds really good. it has a clear, polished and balanced sound, and also great signal connection (while the Onyx Ace would occasionally stutter from time to time). 

the Onyx Ace is good too with it's neutral and balanced sound. Note that i put thin earbuds foams on them. because without it both the Ace and Neo would be slightly loose on my large ears and sound thin as the result.


----------



## Canabuc

bladefd said:


> Hmm, price for 85t must have gone back up. Shows $229. I most won't likely spend over $200 for earbuds.
> 
> I guess Sony at $158 is tough to beat. Only the Touch can beat that cost/value ratio but charging issue makes it a difficult choice.


Keep checking it seems to go on sale often

https://mashable.com/shopping/jan-4-jabra-elite-85t-true-wireless-bluetooth-earbuds/


----------



## Canabuc

bladefd said:


> Hmm, price for 85t must have gone back up. Shows $229. I most won't likely spend over $200 for earbuds.
> 
> I guess Sony at $158 is tough to beat. Only the Touch can beat that cost/value ratio but charging issue makes it a difficult choice.


Sony have great sound. My only issues with it are they are bulky and so less stable for exercise with no IP rating. Also can't control everythi g from buds and I prefer button control which works with gloves etc to touch controls. I. Fact the Technics touch controls were so sensitive every time they end in my ears I was triggering different actions. Sony's are better but not in our winters


----------



## bronco1015

Canabuc said:


> Question about technics. I have read some reviews on Amazon that say the case discharges with buds in them such that if not used for several days the case and buds will be empty. This was an issue with 1st gen MTW. Have you noticed this? I love how my L2P or Samsung buds will still be at full charge even if not touched for many days.


Catching up in real time so i'm sure you already have an answer. I always check for this for any TWE because of the 1st gen MTW. My AZ70 only recently started doing this but before i reviewed it, i let it sit for a couple weeks before i reviewed it and it hadn't done that. They have done this a couple times now, but i've only used them a couple times in the last 2 months or so. they were brand new, but i got them as a review unit so i don't think i can get a replacement Which i only mention in case you replied and asked about working with Customer Service etc. I hadn't seen any mention of complaints about battery drain on them yet though, so figured i might have a bad unit. Still could be the case, these are great to use though, and love seeing posts from others using them.


----------



## Ultrainferno

We today reviewed the GT220 TWS from Grado. @Aerosphere concludes: _I think this is a marvelous start for Grado and to be honest, I am quite excited about what will we be seeing from them on the wireless market in the near future. _
https://www.headfonia.com/grado-gt220-review/

Feel free to reach out to him if you have any questions about the review.


----------



## Tommy C

Ultrainferno said:


> We today reviewed the GT220 TWS from Grado. @Aerosphere concludes: _I think this is a marvelous start for Grado and to be honest, I am quite excited about what will we be seeing from them on the wireless market in the near future. _
> https://www.headfonia.com/grado-gt220-review/
> 
> Feel free to reach out to him if you have any questions about the review.



Looks interesting but to stay competitive in this market they need an app, more features such as hearthrough, ANC etc and the price has to come down too as it’s difficult to justify the price tag even if they sound insanely good.


----------



## jant71 (Jan 11, 2021)

Don't think the Grado has proven itself out. It seems to sound good but not insanely good but very good for TWS. Problems aside not sure it would beat the Touch for $110 less. I think some would buy it even at the price if it did sound amazing but it can be up and down and seems the mids could do better.

In other news... CES day 1. Sony at 5:30 PM IIRC


----------



## Canabuc

bronco1015 said:


> Catching up in real time so i'm sure you already have an answer. I always check for this for any TWE because of the 1st gen MTW. My AZ70 only recently started doing this but before i reviewed it, i let it sit for a couple weeks before i reviewed it and it hadn't done that. They have done this a couple times now, but i've only used them a couple times in the last 2 months or so. they were brand new, but i got them as a review unit so i don't think i can get a replacement Which i only mention in case you replied and asked about working with Customer Service etc. I hadn't seen any mention of complaints about battery drain on them yet though, so figured i might have a bad unit. Still could be the case, these are great to use though, and love seeing posts from others using them.


Are you referring to the case draining? Didn't have them long enough to know for sure. Did notice though that the red lights on the buds were on and never turned off. I suspect the case is continuously trickle charging them this drawing down the case over time. I also found the contacts in the case finicky. If I didn't sleep the buds in just right they would still fit but would not charge


----------



## Canabuc

bladefd said:


> Hmm, price for 85t must have gone back up. Shows $229. I most won't likely spend over $200 for earbuds.
> 
> I guess Sony at $158 is tough to beat. Only the Touch can beat that cost/value ratio but charging issue makes it a difficult choice.


Even the Sony's note seen to have gone back up to300cdn$. All the same seem to be over at the moment.


----------



## dweaver

bronco1015 said:


> Catching up in real time so i'm sure you already have an answer. I always check for this for any TWE because of the 1st gen MTW. My AZ70 only recently started doing this but before i reviewed it, i let it sit for a couple weeks before i reviewed it and it hadn't done that. They have done this a couple times now, but i've only used them a couple times in the last 2 months or so. they were brand new, but i got them as a review unit so i don't think i can get a replacement Which i only mention in case you replied and asked about working with Customer Service etc. I hadn't seen any mention of complaints about battery drain on them yet though, so figured i might have a bad unit. Still could be the case, these are great to use though, and love seeing posts from others using them.


I saw one person post this in the reviews on Amazon, I have not noticed anything but I also have been using these just about every single day so no real way to see if it happens with mine so far. I found the original MTW were bad enough I could not really leave them for much more than a week and they would be dead. But I do hate this issue so hopefully it's not a bug they ignored and is faulty units. I may need to sacrifice listening to my mine for a couple of weeks to see what happens.  Thanks for mentioning it though as I do think people need to know if this happens consistently or not.

I am going to have one last listen to my pair and then charge them up and let them sit to see what happens. I will switch over to my L2P or maybe use some over ears for a couple weeks instead.


----------



## bladefd

jant71 said:


> Don't think the Grado has proven itself out. It seems to sound good but not insanely good but very good for TWS. Problems aside not sure it would beat the Touch for $110 less. I think some would buy it even at the price if it did sound amazing but it can be up and down and seems the mids could do better.
> 
> In other news... CES day 1. Sony at 5:30 PM IIRC



Do companies typically announce cost and release date for things at CES? Or just announce the products? I never watched it to know.


----------



## tinyman392

bladefd said:


> Do companies typically announce cost and release date for things at CES? Or just announce the products? I never watched it to know.



Product announcements are typical for CES.  However, while the majority of products do have prices and release dates associated with them, not all do.  You have to look to the press release for that information.


----------



## chortya

I’ll try to consolidate my thoughts and experience around the following TWS/Neckband IEMs that I currently have and was able to test side-by-side: *Cambridge Audio Melomania Touch, Oppo Enco X, Huawei Freebuds Pro, Sennheiser Momentum True Wireless 2, Sony WI-1000XM2.*

As already mentioned in one of my previous posts I am using Sony IER-Z1R with Shanling MW200 as my reference, but I find them not mobile enough to fully compete with the rest of the headphones I have. And due to huge price difference, it’s not fair to really compare them. But they still give that nice reference point. I also must admit that I am a fanboy of Sony Z1R sound signature.

My wife also uses Airpods Pro but I will also not include them into the comparison as they work best with Apple phones only, so again it’s unfair to compare different platforms/sources. Out of my experience they were not a good match to my Android phones.

I am using Samsung Fold2 with Tidal as my main source. Maybe I will extend the test to use Sony Xperia 1ii too which is my second/backup phone. Good thing about Sony is that you have more visibility and control what wireless protocol is used in the Bluetooth settings…

I did not test or compare battery life and connectivity.

I will structure as following: SQ, Fit, Design/case, App, summary of personal/subjective Pros/Cons.



*Oppo Enco X

SQ:* very punchy and dynamic bass, crisp highs, slightly recessed mids – so typical fun V-shaped signature. Dual-driver design (11mm DD + BA) really shines here and really creates high resolution sound with a lot of details. Sometimes the highs are too prominent and can be tiring for some listeners. Medium sound stage.

*ANC: *OK, but nothing special.

*Fit:* good fit but I am still often having a feeling that they are falling out. I have to say my ears are quite wide, so the usual old earplugs never stayed in place. I used L sized tips.

*Design/Case:* Solid case, really like it with the metal accent and ability to open the case with one hand. Wireless charging is supported.

*App:* limited settings in the app, no EQ, no multiple ANC settings. Firmware update possible.

*General Pros: *Nice design, fun sound, high resolution, good price-quality ratio.

*General Cons: *Limited settings in the app, highs are sometimes too prominent. Some microphonics without music playing due to ANC and looser fit.

* 

Cambridge Audio Melomania Touch

SQ:* Quite balanced, slightly dark/warm with a little bit more focus on mids compared to Oppo and Huawei. Compared to the rest of the bunch a little bit boring, I would even call them Sennheiser Momentum TWS2 light, like Sennheiser in general but not as good. 7mm DD.

*ANC: *No ANC.

*Fit:* very good fit due to similarity with the usual universal IEM design. I had to use L sized tips and fin.

*Design/Case:* The case has very cheap feeling but looks ok due to the structured surface. Worst thing that for me it’s impossible to open it with 1 hand. Nice charge level

*App:* limited settings in the app, no EQ, no multiple ANC settings. Firmware update possible.

*General Pros: *Nice design, fun sound, high resolution.

*General Cons: *Strange connectivity approach with both headphones connecting separately (active-active), maybe this could be positive, but I am reading about some connectivity issues from other users. No ANC. Bad case. Price-quality ratio rather bad due to missing ANC.



*Sennheiser Momentum True Wireless 2

SQ:* I have used them in hifi mode. Very balanced, slightly warm. Good sound stage. Medium level of details. Single DD design (7mm).

*ANC: *OK, but nothing special.

*Fit:* Very good fit in general but they are big with slightly deeper fit which I generally like better than loose fit.

*Design/Case:* Solid case, really like the fabric like material. Putting the headphones in can be tricky sometimes. No wireless charging.

*App:* Solid and mature app.

*General Pros: *Good sound, mature product.

*General Cons: *Still expensive. ANC could be better.



*Huawei Freebuds Pro

SQ:* V-Shaped signature but more balanced then Oppo Enco X but still fun sounding. Medium stage with good level of details for single DD design (11mm).

*ANC: *Best or on par with Sony.

*Fit:* good fit but I am still often having a feeling that they are falling out. I have to say my ears are quite wide, so the usual old earplugs never stayed in place. I used M sized tips, somehow L size is making things worth.

*Design/Case:* Solid case, can be opened with one hand. Wireless charging is supported.

*App:* Good app with balanced features but not only focused on headphones. Firmware update possible and these are coming quite often.

*General Pros: *Nice design, fun sound, very good price-quality ratio (got mine as new for 110 Euro).

*General Cons: *Actually, not many, maybe slightly loose fit for me personally.

* 

Sony WI-1000XM2

SQ:* Best compared to the rest of the tested headphones, dual-driver design (9mm DD and BA), punchy bass and nice highs but still well balanced. 360 Audio support, DSEE HX™ and LDAC support. Broad soundstage. Btw, I also owned WF-1000XM3 and I like the SQ of WI-1000XM2 better.

*ANC: *Probably best in class.

*Fit:* Very good fit due to deep insertion.

*Design/Case:* Can not be compared with TWS but it also comes with dedicated travel-case. Due to neckband design you just leave them on your neck when not in use 😊

*App:* Solid and mature app with a lot of settings.

*General Pros: *Best sound, can be called Z1R-light due to similar signature. Clearly a hidden gem in wireless headphones space. A lot of connectivity options including cable!

*General Cons: *Expensive, some microphonics due to neckband design with cables to the headphones. Shorter battery life then I would expect of neckband.



As a result, I will probably keep Sennheiser and Huawei as my TWS options because they have so different signatures and definitely I am keeping my Sony WI-1000XM2 for future travel (if we come back to normality at some point in time), still very happy that I did not sell them. I am also happy that I have re-purchased Huawei Freebuds Pro because only in side-by-side comparison I understood that they are a better option compared to Oppo Enco X. I am planning to pre-order the new Samsung S21 Ultra which will probably come with Buds Pro as pre-order bonus. After that I will decide what TWS out of 3 I will keep.


----------



## tinyman392

chortya said:


> I’ll try to consolidate my thoughts and experience around the following TWS/Neckband IEMs that I currently have and was able to test side-by-side: *Cambridge Audio Melomania Touch, Oppo Enco X, Huawei Freebuds Pro, Sennheiser Momentum True Wireless 2, Sony WI-1000XM2.*
> 
> <snip>



I was going to, excitedly, ask "Oppo is making headphones again?!"  Then I realized that it was the cell phone company and not the, now defunct, headphone/DAC/amp company...


----------



## JWAR1976

I spoke with my neurologist today and he has advised me against getting over ear headphones for day to day use, especially for walking around in.  This is gutting as I was all set to order the Sony WH-1000XM4.  So now it is back to the drawing board for earbuds, as the current range of TWS are extremely limited for Multipoint support, I am hoping that some alternatives to Jabra get announced at CES.


----------



## tinyman392

JWAR1976 said:


> I spoke with my neurologist today and he has advised me against getting over ear headphones for day to day use, especially for walking around in.  This is gutting as I was all set to order the Sony WH-1000XM4.  So now it is back to the drawing board for earbuds, as the current range of TWS are extremely limited for Multipoint support, I am hoping that some alternatives to Jabra get announced at CES.



Did you get a reason as to why you should avoid over-ear headphones?


----------



## JWAR1976

tinyman392 said:


> Did you get a reason as to why you should avoid over-ear headphones?



i have a VP shunt for secondary hydrocephalus caused by Arnold Chiari Malformation and that I shouldn’t have anything resting on top of my head or against my neck.


----------



## tinyman392

JWAR1976 said:


> i have a VP shunt for secondary hydrocephalus caused by Arnold Chiari Malformation and that I shouldn’t have anything resting on top of my head or against my neck.



Oof, sorry to hear that.  Makes sense though.


----------



## JWAR1976

tinyman392 said:


> Oof, sorry to hear that.  Makes sense though.



Yes perfect sense unfortunatel, It is ok just disheartening that I was really looking forward to getting them.  Hopefully a viable solution happens this year.


----------



## Canabuc

JWAR1976 said:


> I spoke with my neurologist today and he has advised me against getting over ear headphones for day to day use, especially for walking around in.  This is gutting as I was all set to order the Sony WH-1000XM4.  So now it is back to the drawing board for earbuds, as the current range of TWS are extremely limited for Multipoint support, I am hoping that some alternatives to Jabra get announced at CES.


Huawei also have multipoint though I love the 85t


----------



## JWAR1976

tinyman392 said:


> Did you get a reason as to why you should avoid over-ear headphones?





Canabuc said:


> Huawei also have multipoint though I love the 85t



Oh thank you ever so much for that information I will take a look, I honestly thought that Jabra were the only ones


----------



## dweaver

Take a look at the Status Between Pro I believe they listed it as having multipoint as well. Bit risky as it is just coming out of Indiegogo but the company is established and has released several products.


----------



## FYLegend (Jan 16, 2021)

I just noticed if you use Earfun Free Pro in busy environments with sudden thumping sounds, they will actually distort your audio playback. It's not frequent but worse than any other ANC device I've used so far.

MIFO has launched a second-generation version of the O5 Plus. Finally there's USB Type-C and Transparency Mode is present as well (not sure why they took it off the O7). There's a red Canada edition which costs Unfortunately as Gamesky would say "they control everything but the volume" and no ANC by now is also a bit of an oversight.

EDIT: They do support volume so I don't think Gamesky will be complaining



Canabuc said:


> I would skip the 1more. Sound is dark and warm with no built in eq.
> Battery life is poor and overtake volume is lacking.  If you want ANC I would lookvat the Sony or Jabra or Technicsdorms in what sound signature you like.
> Mtw or nose are more eq options as well.


I think they have the potential for treble but often only hear it in one ear. The treble has this brassy texture which can be too sibilant in some tracks. However right ear sounds dark and warm unless I shove them deep into my ear. I don't know if this is due to the seal or if I got a dud. I think there is also the matter of driver flex, as when I shove the left bud in with ANC on, it becomes way too loud unless I re-insert the buds. My main gripe is the seal and I'm still contemplating on whether to return these or not. The other annoyance I have is that auto-pause can't be turned off, and especially on my left ear it sometimes pauses unintentionally when it gets slightly loose.

Do you find the 85t good enough with SBC codec?


----------



## JWAR1976

dweaver said:


> Take a look at the Status Between Pro I believe they listed it as having multipoint as well. Bit risky as it is just coming out of Indiegogo but the company is established and has released several products.



Thank you for that especially as according to the Huawei website, their multipoint is only compatible with their phones / tablets / watches.


----------



## jant71 (Jan 11, 2021)

I don't know. It doesn't look good so far. Sony conference had no mention of personal audio and all their little video promotion bits showed the new stuff like a commercial with music and flashes of Sony stuff. The only true wireless they showed were the XB700 and SP800N. Showing the new drone camera filming system in one frame then flashing the SP800N for 1.5 seconds leads me to believe they have nothing new to show.

How about these...




ANC buds from a brand you probably never heard of. 

Cheaper Technics...



" The press conference confirmed that the premium audio brand will be launching new true wireless earbuds this year, either to succeed or sit alongside the 2020-released Technics EAH-AZ70W. We don't know where they will sit yet, but there was a hint that they could be a cheaper model: “Now, for the first time, that legendary audio experience is available to everyone,” the speaker announced. "

TCL ANC...




HP Elite wireless promises personalized audio and seamless switching between devices...




Edifier GM5 gaming buds with LL...


----------



## JWAR1976

Ii have just noticed an advert from Soundcore on Facebook that tomorrow at 5pm (UK Time), they will be revealing their new Earbuds with the hashtag #Audioescape.  Being a newbie in headphones, I don’t know much about the company but they seem to be making a big deal out of this reveal, so could well be interesting.


----------



## Mouseman

JWAR1976 said:


> Ii have just noticed an advert from Soundcore on Facebook that tomorrow at 5pm (UK Time), they will be revealing their new Earbuds with the hashtag #Audioescape.  Being a newbie in headphones, I don’t know much about the company but they seem to be making a big deal out of this reveal, so could well be interesting.


They're the audio side of Anker, and have some very good audio gear at decent prices. I have a few of their things. I'm really interested to see what they're announcing, seems like an IEM with a stalk and ANC.


----------



## noobandroid

i have the samsung galaxy buds and the plus, do think both are really good sounding and substantially different sounding characters too

and if anc headphone, i have the sony xm4 and the dark sounding + thump bass, with anc, very nice (borat toned)


----------



## cresny

I went through below (and all the linked music) with the Devialet Gemini, and it was amazing. I never knew I liked classical music before, and maybe I still don't really, but this is some challenging stuff for detail. Out of curiosity I did the same with the Sony XM3s. Nice enough but really no comparison, the difference is striking.  I don't think any other wireless IEM can compare. Any other Gemini owners care to try? I'm posting here rather than the Gemini topic because the setup issues gave these things a bad rep, but I think those were overblown and more people should consider these along with the top others, eg Senns, etc., if having the best sound is the goal.

https://flypaper.soundfly.com/discovery/breaking-down-radioheads-orchestration-burn-the-witch/


----------



## bronco1015

Canabuc said:


> Are you referring to the case draining? Didn't have them long enough to know for sure. Did notice though that the red lights on the buds were on and never turned off. I suspect the case is continuously trickle charging them this drawing down the case over time. I also found the contacts in the case finicky. If I didn't sleep the buds in just right they would still fit but would not charge


Yes the case drain. They can be a bit picky but i just check now before i close the lid.


----------



## dweaver

bronco1015 said:


> Yes the case drain. They can be a bit picky but i just check now before i close the lid.



I charged mine up and am going to check on them every couple of days. Open case and see if the led light changes over time.

I have had instances where they were not seated right and did not charge. I also have had times where the LEDs said there was more than 1 charge and the LED was dead the next time I used the IEMs and they were not fully charged. 

So the charging case isn't perfect.


----------



## bronco1015

[





CocaCola15 said:


> The CA Melomania Touch arrived this morning. A few observations. Having owned the Jabra/Sony/Senn triumvirate of BT royalty (and a few more relatively expensive pair as well), I ended up keeping the Melomania 1 as my on the go BT phones.  To me, the simplicity of the controls (click not touch) and the un-EQ'd sound quality just were on par with any of the higher priced phones I owned.  In fact, I preferred the M1 sound to any of the others I tried, price to performance/usability.
> 
> So trying the Touch was a natural, hoping for even better sound and an app this time. Don't care about transparency or ANC. I use them primarily for walks with the dog, honestly. That's it. For air travel or home listening I favor the Sony WH1000XM3.
> 
> ...


] For me, timing was the reason i didn't get 1st gen Melomania 1, by the time i'd seen them, i was happy with what i had at the time, but have been waiting for a sequal. I'm gonna pick these up. can't wait to hear them.


----------



## FYLegend

I'm confused about the Anker loyalties thing, is it already over? I tried registering my Q30 but then it said the serial was invalid (official from Amazon)


----------



## Luchyres (Jan 12, 2021)

Well... it's been a week or two - I think I did really lose my JBL CLUB PRO+ ANC  

Now, my number one anticipated release iis the  JBL Tour Pro Plus:






JBL's Tour Series headphones will hit the market later in the year, with the JBL Tour Pro Plus available in black at major retailers and on JBL.com on May 30 for $200.

Key specs, according to JBL:


6.8mm dynamic drivers
Adaptive Noise Canceling
Six hours of battery with active noise canceling on, eight hours with Bluetooth only
Speed Charge (10 minutes of charging gets you an hour of playback)
Adaptive Ambient Aware and TalkThru
Voice Clarity with three-mic beamforming array technology
Dual Connect + Sync and Fast Pair
Hands-free voice capability with Amazon Alexa and Google Assistant
IPX4 sweatproof
SilentNow and My Alarm
Smart Audio & Video, optimized for listening to music versus a movie
Customized tap panel control
Check My Best Fit feature lets you check your ear fit with the companion app
JBL Headphones App to customize EQ settings
Price: $200

Edit: These were my favorites for sound (after EQ) out of:


Nuarl NT01AX (My first favorites - still fantastic sound imo)
Nuarl N6 (Great all around sound - former daily driver - but no extra features (ANC, hearthrough)) 
Jabra 75T (some resonance in the L bud, great calls, multipoint)
Jabra 85T (Liked a lot, don't love the style of isolation (felt too open - I crave the isolation of IEMs)
Huawei Freebuds Pro (loved form factor, wanted a little more depth with sound)
Anker LP2 (did not like - peaky in the treble/crossover with the BA for me - very fatiguing)
AKG N400 (Also, not a fan - underwhelming bass delivery and hit or miss treble for me)
Sony XM3 (TWS) (sound was ok, case was huge, fit was rough) 
+ Others I'm forgetting.

Convienience wise I love the 75t for multipoint and call quality (new JBL has "dual connect"? which I hope is multipoint and some new mic tech?) I'm hoping these will take my favorite features from the Jabra and marry them with the EQable sound/depth/clarity of the CLUB PRO+ ANC I lost. 

May can't come soon enough!


----------



## Canabuc

FYLegend said:


> I just noticed if you use Earfun Free Pro in busy environments with sudden thumping sounds, they will actually distort your audio playback. It's not frequent but worse than any other ANC device I've used so far.
> 
> MIFO has launched a second-generation version of the O5 Plus. Finally there's USB Type-C and Transparency Mode is present as well (not sure why they took it off the O7). There's a red Canada edition which costs Unfortunately as Gamesky would say "they control everything but the volume" and no ANC by now is also a bit of an oversight.
> 
> ...


The 85t are using AAC for me and sound very good. It comes down to the fit of tips. They are different so less tip options and feel looser but still are secure.


----------



## TheWarmInRain

I am waiting to receive Cambridge Audio Melomania Touch this week, after I test them I will write my opinion about them.


----------



## Canabuc

Ok doing alot more testing. The 85t vs Sony XM3.  Sony wind slightly overall and it depends on your musical taste.

The table in the Sonys have a bit more bite. A bit more crisp. The 85t even EQ'd are a little softer. Bit less sparkle. Depending on the song I prefer one over the other. Some vocals the Sony treble can be a tad harsh. But in others the vocals sound more present and the guitars a tad more vibrant. 

I think either in a vacuum I would be happy with. Both sound better than the 75t with a more spacious and full sound. The vocals on 75t are thin. Where the 75t shine is in hiphop or bass heavy tracks.

I now have 3 sets of earbuds I can return to Amazon all purchased at a great price and not sure what to do. So will solicit opinions.

1. Sony XM3 bought for around 160$usd or 200cdn

2. Jabra 85t  bought for 167usd$ or 215$cdn

3. Jabra active 85t warehouse deal so no full warranty but 80$usd or 105$cdn

Each has pro and con.


Sound- XM3>85t>75t (slightly better on XM3 in the treble depending on taste and genre)

Comfort- 85t>75t>XM3

Features-85t=75t>XM3 (85t Qi and better ANC, 75t better IP rating for sport and swim)

ANC- 85t=XM3>75t

Size- 75t>85t>>XM3

Volume- XM3=85t>75t
Bass- 75t>85t=XM3

I'm leaning 85t if I had to pick 1. There are some aftermarket tips that are oval. Spinfit for APP are apparently fitting. Misodiko has a set too. Some non oval tips fit too.

Though combo of 75t and XM3 might be option using one for sport and by thepool beach if the Pandemic ever ends. XM3 for more critical listening.

From what I can see there aren't alot of ANC TWS planned for imminent release. There are the new Samsung but from early reports the ANC not the best and if the sound is no better than the buds+don't see the point.

Any other ideas? For some reason the JBL club pro+ don't seem to have been released in Canada but sound intriguing too.


----------



## tma6

I think the 85ts are really the best tws out there. They have all the features you’d want, excellent sound quality imo, and are super convenient- which is one of the main points of tws to me.


----------



## Canabuc

tma6 said:


> I think the 85ts are really the best tws out there. They have all the features you’d want, excellent sound quality imo, and are super convenient- which is one of the main points of tws to me.


Have you tried any alternative tips? Cp360 spin fit can fit and give the treble more bite but then need to boost the bass


----------



## tma6

Canabuc said:


> Have you tried any alternative tips? Cp360 spin fit can fit and give the treble more bite but then need to boost the bass



No actually the stock large tips fit me perfectly. I use this EQ setting if you wanna try it. I actually prefer how the 85t sounds to the xm3. Much more natural midrange w better staging imo.


----------



## Canabuc

tma6 said:


> No actually the stock large tips fit me perfectly. I use this EQ setting if you wanna try it. I actually prefer how the 85t sounds to the xm3. Much more natural midrange w better staging imo.


Will try it. I just did the hear test on it. It definitely changed the sound! The treble are crisper now. Best my 52 year old ears were missing the highs a bit and corrected it have them back. Even with the stock tips.

I had to actually EQ them with lower bass and treble after the sound test. Too bad that couldn't be set as a different profile like the soundcore.
But they are more dynamic sounding now.


----------



## jant71 (Jan 12, 2021)

Luchyres said:


> Well... it's been a week or two - I think I did really lose my JBL CLUB PRO+ ANC
> 
> Now, my number one anticipated release iis the  JBL Tour Pro Plus:
> 
> ...



Yep JBL announced them before CES and still so far it seems the Tour + is the best thing announced assuming the Earin A3 doesn't count as a competitor due to being open earpod style and no ANC. Or you think HP is gonna beat the JBL but I'm not leaning that way.

Anyone order the new Soundcore yet...
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08G4K8CY8/?tag=reality


----------



## Luchyres

jant71 said:


> Yep JBL announced them before CES and still so far it seems the Tour + is the best thing announced assuming the Earin A3 doesn't count as a competitor due to being open earpod style and no ANC. Or you think HP is gonna beat the JBL but I'm not leaning that way.
> 
> Anyone buy the new Soundcore yet...
> https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08G4K8CY8/?tag=reality



I like Earin, and I like their new A3 as a product - but it would be more of a replacement of my 75T Elite for work and calls than for intensive music listening, which is what I'm eyeing the Tour+ for (with good enough calls to hopefully be the only thing I take on a trip).

I have not seen the HP yet....


----------



## jant71

Luchyres said:


> I like Earin, and I like their new A3 as a product - but it would be more of a replacement of my 75T Elite for work and calls than for intensive music listening, which is what I'm eyeing the Tour+ for (with good enough calls to hopefully be the only thing I take on a trip).
> 
> I have not seen the HP yet....






They are playing the multipoint/multistream thing up. An interesting thing is the other Elite products have audio by B&O so a chance maybe B&O helps out here for this one.

Becoming the Norm, ANC true wireless that cost $199. Seems most are this price now .


----------



## dweaver

On the new Soundcore model


PureNote Driver Technology: *Get a 45% boost to your bass*, and a 30% wider frequency bandwidth than ordinary drivers. Drivers coated with 10 hardened nano-layers offer incredible stiffness to generate stunning accuracy and clarity.

Not sure if 45% additional bass is good thing or not... depends on where/how that gets emphasized I guess... it sound intriguing though. Not a huge fan of the stem design but I do see how using it for mics can help improve sound quality.


----------



## C_Lindbergh

So both the JBL and new HP earbuds claims they got some sort of multipoint? I take it they are not using a qualcomm chip then? Multipoint with SBC/AAC isn't something new.


----------



## Canabuc

They were briefly available shop next day on Amazon Canada now pushed back 2 to 3 weeks and price is 169$cdn.
For Liberty air 2 pro. Was tempted until I realized am still aidiotiong 3 pairs and I have lost part of my mind.

Think the 85t are the one bud to rule them all for now with best mix of sound quality comfort and features.
Last hurdle test is how they handle a workout.


----------



## jant71

C_Lindbergh said:


> So both the JBL and new HP earbuds claims they got some sort of multipoint? I take it they are not using a qualcomm chip then? Multipoint with SBC/AAC isn't something new.



Not that info just yet. JBL doesn't seem to use Qualcomm though. HP only says seamlessly switch between devices with a simple tap on the earphones or " seamless connection switching between devices through their Windows 10, iOS or Android app - it enables you to switch between a conference call and music in an instant."



Canabuc said:


> They were briefly available shop next day on Amazon Canada now pushed back 2 to 3 weeks and price is 169$cdn.
> For Liberty air 2 pro. Was tempted until I realized am still aidiotiong 3 pairs and I have lost part of my mind.
> 
> Think the 85t are the one bud to rule them all for now with best mix of sound quality comfort and features.
> Last hurdle test is how they handle a workout.



EL JEFFE video says you can't have every control on board so you have to choose and leave stuff out. Seems, unless they firmware update, the earbuds have no single or triple tap function using only double tap and hold. Kinda stupid for ANC and ambient buds so perhaps they will change that in an update esp. since that won't fly with many people.


----------



## FYLegend

Canabuc said:


> The 85t are using AAC for me and sound very good. It comes down to the fit of tips. They are different so less tip options and feel looser but still are secure.


yes but on my Windows 10 laptop, I would be restricted to SBC codec. Most earbuds still sound pretty good but some like the Galaxy Buds+ have the bitpool decreased such that they sound distorted.


----------



## Canabuc

jant71 said:


> Not that info just yet. JBL doesn't seem to use Qualcomm though. HP only says seamlessly switch between devices with a simple tap on the earphones or " seamless connection switching between devices through their Windows 10, iOS or Android app - it enables you to switch between a conference call and music in an instant."
> 
> 
> 
> EL JEFFE video says you can't have every control on board so you have to choose and leave stuff out. Seems, unless they firmware update, the earbuds have no single or triple tap function using only double tap and hold. Kinda stupid for ANC and ambient buds so perhaps they will change that in an update esp. since that won't fly with many people.


My same issue with Sony. You have to choose. Not so with Jabras


----------



## jant71 (Jan 12, 2021)

No Cleer CES unveiling just yet but they are on the website now...




Ally Plus II not much different looking outside of color. Just touted to better " industry-leading hybrid noise cancellation technology, customizable performance with the Cleer+ app, extended battery life and touchpad controls" They get 11 hours of battery on a charge(assuming w/o ANC).

Roam NC the $60 one...



Roam NC delivers superior sound with 5.8mm custom tuned dynamic drivers by Cleer’s Acoustic Lab and features noise cancelling that blocks noise up to 25dB for distraction-free listening. Users can control noise cancellation and ambient aware levels, set custom EQ levels and customize control with the Cleer+ APP.


----------



## rhsauer (Jan 12, 2021)

dweaver said:


> On the new Soundcore model
> 
> 
> PureNote Driver Technology: *Get a 45% boost to your bass*, and a 30% wider frequency bandwidth than ordinary drivers. Drivers coated with 10 hardened nano-layers offer incredible stiffness to generate stunning accuracy and clarity.
> ...


I was lucky enough to get to try these new Soundcore Liberty Air 2 Pros -- and I will try to write a longer review after a few days (because I think it's important to test over a few days before forming any meaningful opinions) -- but for now, I can say they are impressive.  You can read all their specifications on their website, so I won't rehash them here -- but, more subjectively, I will say that (1) the sound is reminiscent of the Liberty 2 Pros in timbre and tuning (but not _quite_ as good because the L2P is, after all, a dual driver), (2) the microphones seem amazing (and the call quality, I'm told, is great), (3) the ANC seems very, very good (although I haven't had a chance to test it on subways or planes for obvious reasons), and (4) the case is a really nice form factor (like the L2P but much smaller).  Highly recommended for the price.  Frankly, I was hoping that these would have the same coaxial driver setup that the L2Ps have, but they don't -- so I guess that gives us something to look forward to.  In any event, these earphones sound great, just not as great as the L2Ps.


----------



## TWSMan (Jan 12, 2021)

The new Soundcore Liberty Air 2 Pro announced today with a £30 discount code for £99.99:  *LIBERTY30UK



*




https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B08G4Q6CNN

https://uk.soundcore.com/products/a3951011

30% discount can be used by our friends in the US, EU and Germany directly from Soundcore: WS30NME

US $99.99:
https://us.soundcore.com/products/a3951021

EU 99.99€:
https://eu.soundcore.com/products/a3951021

Germany 99.99€:
https://de.soundcore.com/products/a3951021


----------



## Canabuc

FYLegend said:


> yes but on my Windows 10 laptop, I would be restricted to SBC codec. Most earbuds still sound pretty good but some like the Galaxy Buds+ have the bitpool decreased such that they sound distorted.


Haven't tested with pc yet


----------



## bronco1015

Tommy C said:


> The ghosts of PSB M4U TW1 that sounded amazing but boy pairing them and tech sucked.


That pairing process for the TW1 was a joke. i lucked out though. Before buying them, I had seen mention of how weird it was, so read the manual and it worked the first time. Definitely saved those instructions for when i'd have to pair them to another device cause knew i would forget how to pair them haha.
 i'm guessing what happened in this person's case with the melomania Touch is that they paired one earbud, probably the left, may not have seen the prompt to pair the right one after left was paired, or their source device doesn't support true wireless plus, in which case both would need to be paired individually first one then the 2nd while the first is in the case. They could still bbe used in mono, and would work together when both were out, as one will feed audio to the other.


----------



## bronco1015 (Jan 12, 2021)

C_Lindbergh said:


> I hope CA will come out with some sort of statement about the issues. Instead of being dead silent about it publicly like Sennheiser was with the battery drain issue.
> 
> I'll deffo buy them once we know that all issues are fixed.


Same here. I was all excited for these, but as i read through and see all these posts i think about the early adopter issues with the battery drain on OG MTW, the Blue Sattelite headphones which i just dusted off after over a year of non use, in that case, 4th time was a charm, the buzzing on the WF XM3 i got when they first came out etc. I'm gonna sit this one out for a while.


----------



## bronco1015

tinyman392 said:


> I was going to, excitedly, ask "Oppo is making headphones again?!"  Then I realized that it was the cell phone company and not the, now defunct, headphone/DAC/amp company...


Oppo Digital who made the headphones was an offshoot of Oppo who made these iems.


----------



## tinyman392

bronco1015 said:


> Oppo Digital who made the headphones was an offshoot of Oppo who made these iems.



When the PM-X series was still big on Head-Fi, that Oppo made it a pretty big deal to make sure that we all knew that they had little to do with the Oppo phone brand and were in fact two different companies.


----------



## bronco1015

rhsauer said:


> I was lucky enough to get to try these new Soundcore Liberty Air 2 Pros -- and I will try to write a longer review after a few days (because I think it's important to test over a few days before forming any meaningful opinions) -- but for now, I can say they are impressive.  You can read all their specifications on their website, so I won't rehash them here -- but, more subjectively, I will say that (1) the sound is reminiscent of the Liberty 2 Pros in timbre and tuning (but not _quite_ as good because the L2P is, after all, a dual driver), (2) the microphones seem amazing (and the call quality, I'm told, is great), (3) the ANC seems very, very good (although I haven't had a chance to test it on subways or planes for obvious reasons), and (4) the case is a really nice form factor (like the L2P but much smaller).  Highly recommended for the price.  Frankly, I was hoping that these would have the same coaxial driver setup that the L2Ps have, but they don't -- so I guess that gives us something to look forward to.  In any event, these earphones sound great, just not as great as the L2Ps.


Thanks for posting. i was supposed to have a pair of these here on Saturday, but they got lost in the mail. so being sent another pair. looking forward to trying them.


----------



## bronco1015

tinyman392 said:


> When the PM-X series was still big on Head-Fi, that Oppo made it a pretty big deal to make sure that we all knew that they had little to do with the Oppo phone brand and were in fact two different companies.


Same owners though BBK. You're right, they went to great lengths to mention that.


----------



## AudioNoob (Jan 13, 2021)

Just posted a long-term revisit of the Jabra Elite Active 75t including a look at the spintip cp360 and cp1025
https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/jabra-elite-active-75t.24897/reviews#item-review-25115

I wasn't aware that the cp1025 would fit anything other than Airpod Pros but Spinfit recommend it and it sure fits the Jabra. If anybody is looking for truly short stem tips, these are it at perhaps half the size of sedna and others. It fits in the case without issues. I'm really impressed with the quality and secure fit on both 1025 and 360 models.


----------



## Canabuc

AudioNoob said:


> Just posted a long-term revisit of the Jabra Elite Active 75t including a look at the spintip cp360 and cp1025
> https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/jabra-elite-active-75t.24897/reviews#item-review-25115
> 
> I wasn't aware that the cp1025 would fit anything other than Airpod Pros but Spinfit recommend it and it sure fits the Jabra. If anybody is looking for truly short stem tips, these are it at perhaps half the size of sedna and others. It fits in the case without issues. I'm really impressed with the quality and secure fit on both 1025 and 360 models.


Saw a Chinese video that said the 1025 work in the Jabras 85t too


----------



## Dregur

bronco1015 said:


> That pairing process for the TW1 was a joke. i lucked out though. Before buying them, I had seen mention of how weird it was, so read the manual and it worked the first time. Definitely saved those instructions for when i'd have to pair them to another device cause knew i would forget how to pair them haha.
> i'm guessing what happened in this person's case with the melomania Touch is that they paired one earbud, probably the left, may not have seen the prompt to pair the right one after left was paired, or their source device doesn't support true wireless plus, in which case both would need to be paired individually first one then the 2nd while the first is in the case. They could still bbe used in mono, and would work together when both were out, as one will feed audio to the other.



I will say since I figured out the whole thing with the fitting in the case for the right earbud, my connection issues have greatly lessened so far. As long as I make sure that the right earbud is charging correctly when I put it back into the case, I can be mostly confident that when I take out the buds out of the case (without pausing after opening the case), it will automatically re-pair to my phone.


----------



## bronco1015

Dregur said:


> I will say since I figured out the whole thing with the fitting in the case for the right earbud, my connection issues have greatly lessened so far. As long as I make sure that the right earbud is charging correctly when I put it back into the case, I can be mostly confident that when I take out the buds out of the case (without pausing after opening the case), it will automatically re-pair to my phone.


Have you used eq from the CA app? Does the eq you create save locally to the iems or does it only work while using the app? most products i've used do save eq changes to the product itself, hoping that's the case with the Melomania Touch.


----------



## soullinker20

I can confirm my AZ70W has battery draining issue
back when this was new it didn't have this issue


----------



## Enn Jott

This is from the avforums thread on the melomanias. Mine have the same issue, sadly. Dealbreaker for me. While in the return/refund process I decided to ask CA about the issue before sending them back. Maybe this can be fixed with an update of some sort, but I'm not optimistic. Does anybody else have this problem too?


----------



## jant71

Enn Jott said:


> This is from the avforums thread on the melomanias. Mine have the same issue, sadly. Dealbreaker for me. While in the return/refund process I decided to ask CA about the issue before sending them back. Maybe this can be fixed with an update of some sort, but I'm not optimistic. Does anybody else have this problem too?



White noise can perhaps improved by firmware unless it is from the device side. Bad mics on the other hand is what you are stuck with.

When I watched the Gamesky video, not sure about other people, the mic section did not impress me. Sounded worse than it should for $150. Same with my JVC Aero's. Would expect better for that price range.


----------



## Caipirina

chinmie said:


> a cheaper competitor to Bose's
> https://www.theverge.com/platform/a...frames-open-ear-headphones-price-release-date


Nice! Want!


----------



## Caipirina

jant71 said:


> Since I was interested I was investigating the BOSE Sport Open Buds and it seems the bad design extends to more than just not integrating charging into the case. They try to cover it up but the ear hook part is only flexible behind the ear. So, it is rigid and can pinch the ear where it goes over. Rigid means you can't adjust for comfort or to aim the speakers some. The comfort and being able to aim the angle of the speakers is critical for this design. The crook of the design being rigid till this line...
> 
> ...was absolutely not the way to go. How they let them end up with it done this way for both the fit/comfort and reliability of attaining the proper sound and case/charging is quite miserable for 2021 and from a brand that is not exactly new and working out kinks. Even with the risk free returns I don't think I will try these.


 Color me intrigued ... I wish I lived somewhere where I could take advantage of that 90 risk free trial ...


----------



## bronco1015

soullinker20 said:


> I can confirm my AZ70W has battery draining issue
> back when this was new it didn't have this issue


That sucks, sounds a lot like how mine have been. This only started last month so they were good for 4-5 months before it started.


----------



## Caipirina

After 5 months (!) I finally managed to get a new set of TWS from AliExpress. Found ONE seller willing to try Singapore Post at a more reasonable price (compared to the now standard EMS / DHL for 50, 100, 100+$ shipping), and it only took like 5 weeks (of which for the first 2 weeks the tracking was stuck at 'packed and ready for pick up' ... ) 

Anyhooo ... I am currently happy as a clam listening to the Fiil T1 Pro, my first ever Fiil ... and they fit marvelously, sound just delightful (still have to try all kinds of genres) and I am not too broken up about not being able to use the app (as per scarbir's latest investigations, which he posted just after I had ordered) .. honestly, play / pause and anc on / off is enough for me .. now, if the app had come with some killer EQ ... but does not look like it ...


----------



## Luchyres

Uh oh - I may have assumed incorrectly that the JBL TOUR PRO+ would have multipoint - it looks like JBL lists "Dual Connect" as something else on Amazon:

"DUAL CONNECT: The power of Dual Connect gives you the choice to seamlessly enjoy music or make calls with either one or both buds. And the battery life keeps up with you, as you can keep one earbud charging, while using the other one
" 🙄 

 it actually comes with multipoint but no longer waiting with bated breath.


----------



## bladefd

Dregur said:


> I will say since I figured out the whole thing with the fitting in the case for the right earbud, my connection issues have greatly lessened so far. As long as I make sure that the right earbud is charging correctly when I put it back into the case, I can be mostly confident that when I take out the buds out of the case (without pausing after opening the case), it will automatically re-pair to my phone.



I have had success with that too last couple days. I will keep the Touch. My Sennheiser cx400bt already went back, and Sony xm3 are on the way back. Unfortunately, I didn't get a chance to compare them. I spent so much time on the battery issue that I just was unable to do a thorough comparison. Ah well. I will still try to do a broad comparison because I listened a lot to the Sony's.


----------



## dweaver

soullinker20 said:


> I can confirm my AZ70W has battery draining issue
> back when this was new it didn't have this issue


That does suck, I am testing mine right now, it has been 2 days so far unplugged and fully charged, I am hoping by the end of the week I should see some change on battery status indicator LEDs.

I wonder if the last firmware update introduced something that is causing this.


----------



## jant71

Caipirina said:


> Color me intrigued ... I wish I lived somewhere where I could take advantage of that 90 risk free trial ...



I was saying no but still thinking on it a little bit. Keeping an eye on the Cleer ARC which was at CES 2020 and coming soon all year and now dissapeared from their website. Pretty sure that is done if it is gone and not mentioned at CES this year. No other options unless one thinks the Jlab thing would sound great for $50 but highly doubtful it will. 

Probably either try Bose or stick with the Cleer Goal which is quite good. Just takes a while with some run in and getting the fit. I need foams to warm them up and maybe a tweak on the EQ depending on source. They are up and down for those interested. Goal might be pretty good then buyer's remorse happen's than you work with them some more and then they become a keeper. $60 now so I certainly recommend them for open style if you can be a little(like a month) patient with them.


----------



## jant71

Deal: Refurb Sony for $59.99 after code... https://www.ebay.com/i/274430628136?ul_noapp=true


----------



## howdy

bronco1015 said:


> Oppo Digital who made the headphones was an offshoot of Oppo who made these iems.


I loved Oppo! Had the PM3s and still have the HA2SE that I use with my CIEMs.


----------



## kolbo

I’m really torn about the Geminis. 
I returned the Bose QC earbuds as they were really hurting my ears. 
I have the 85t as my daily driver. They are not perfect but for me are so comfortable with stock tips. They mostly work well. I love the textile buttons as opposed to touch controls. They sound very good but not great. 
The Geminis sound really great. They are just crisper than all the others I tried. But - sit as comfortable to wear even after tip rolling, and the touch controls are really not working well. I thought mine were defective but I just got a replacement today and they were the same. Single tap works most of the time but not always. Double tap is hit and miss. Since I use that for Siri and answering calls it is very annoying.


----------



## tinyman392

howdy said:


> I loved Oppo! Had the PM3s and still have the HA2SE that I use with my CIEMs.



I still have both of those  I haven’t used either in a while though.


----------



## clerkpalmer

jant71 said:


> Deal: Refurb Sony for $59.99 after code... https://www.ebay.com/i/274430628136?ul_noapp=true


That’s a solid deal there.


----------



## clerkpalmer

kolbo said:


> I’m really torn about the Geminis.
> I returned the Bose QC earbuds as they were really hurting my ears.
> I have the 85t as my daily driver. They are not perfect but for me are so comfortable with stock tips. They mostly work well. I love the textile buttons as opposed to touch controls. They sound very good but not great.
> The Geminis sound really great. They are just crisper than all the others I tried. But - sit as comfortable to wear even after tip rolling, and the touch controls are really not working well. I thought mine were defective but I just got a replacement today and they were the same. Single tap works most of the time but not always. Double tap is hit and miss. Since I use that for Siri and answering calls it is very annoying.


Yeah they are all about the sound.  Fit is pretty good too. The rest of the package is subpar although the ANC is really strong.


----------



## bronco1015

howdy said:


> I loved Oppo! Had the PM3s and still have the HA2SE that I use with my CIEMs.


I haven't used my PM3 or HA-2SE for close to a year. the PM3 is the only piece of audio gear i own that doesn't seem to have depreciated in value lol.


----------



## bronco1015

dweaver said:


> That does suck, I am testing mine right now, it has been 2 days so far unplugged and fully charged, I am hoping by the end of the week I should see some change on battery status indicator LEDs.
> 
> I wonder if the last firmware update introduced something that is causing this.


Wait. You're hoping for a change in battery status after a week of non use? maybe you're saying if it's gonna happen you hope it does within a week? That would make sense. Heres hoping this hasn't affected your unit. FWIW, i have never updated the firmware of these because IIRC when @d3myz updated the pair he bought and returned, it reduced the level of ANC.


----------



## bronco1015

Does anyone by chance have an extra Anbes359  case or SSKBT03 etc? the left side of my case doesn't consistently charge lately so can't use these as much as i have previously. Or does anyone have a suggestion on how to get a charge  to the left iem? AFAIK the cases aren't different but if they are, i have the OG anbes359 with track navigation and volume control.


----------



## dweaver

bronco1015 said:


> Wait. You're hoping for a change in battery status after a week of non use? maybe you're saying if it's gonna happen you hope it does within a week? That would make sense. Heres hoping this hasn't affected your unit. FWIW, i have never updated the firmware of these because IIRC when @d3myz updated the pair he bought and returned, it reduced the level of ANC.


Your absolutely right! I do hope it doesn't display the issue! At least we would then know it might be faulty units versus a damn design flaw that happens to them all like the original MTW. Thanks for the correction.


----------



## Canabuc

kolbo said:


> I’m really torn about the Geminis.
> I returned the Bose QC earbuds as they were really hurting my ears.
> I have the 85t as my daily driver. They are not perfect but for me are so comfortable with stock tips. They mostly work well. I love the textile buttons as opposed to touch controls. They sound very good but not great.
> The Geminis sound really great. They are just crisper than all the others I tried. But - sit as comfortable to wear even after tip rolling, and the touch controls are really not working well. I thought mine were defective but I just got a replacement today and they were the same. Single tap works most of the time but not always. Double tap is hit and miss. Since I use that for Siri and answering calls it is very annoying.


What about sound don't you like in 85t?
I was comment on the highs being crisper on the Sony's. The I added a new element to my A/B test. My favorite wireless over wars the B&W P7W.
And noticed the Sony's were crisper than those too. In fact noticed the p7w sounded very similar to the 85t once I EQ'd the Jabras. So the XM3 have a crisper treble but it doesn't sound quite as natural. The highs once EQ'd are very clear natural without sibilance. 

On a different note I was charging the 85t and did my first exercise experiment ; used the active 75t and the XM3. Well 75t were great. Having that punchy bass for workout music and a smaller more secure fit was very good.
Sony only got as far as the elliptical as while it stated in my ear and kept a seal I felt the tips move around in my ears. Was distracting.
So next test will work out with 85t. If they are better than the Sony's


----------



## cresny

clerkpalmer said:


> Yeah they are all about the sound.  Fit is pretty good too. The rest of the package is subpar although the ANC is really strong.


I think the passthrough mode is also great. No hiss or exterior amplification, very natural sounding. And also mic quality on phone and Zoom is excellent. Add the sound quality, these things hit the trifecta for me. Admittedly the app and pairing quirks are puzzlingly bad. To me these things are like a supercar hamstrung with a sub-par manual transmission.


----------



## kolbo

Canabuc said:


> What about sound don't you like in 85t?
> I was comment on the highs being crisper on the Sony's. The I added a new element to my A/B test. My favorite wireless over wars the B&W P7W.
> And noticed the Sony's were crisper than those too. In fact noticed the p7w sounded very similar to the 85t once I EQ'd the Jabras. So the XM3 have a crisper treble but it doesn't sound quite as natural. The highs once EQ'd are very clear natural without sibilance.
> 
> ...


I’m not sure I can explain. My non tws are Andromedas. I love very clear treble. The Geminis just seem to have detail that the 85t lacks. I keep switching between them.


----------



## bronco1015

dweaver said:


> Your absolutely right! I do hope it doesn't display the issue! At least we would then know it might be faulty units versus a damn design flaw that happens to them all like the original MTW. Thanks for the correction.


No prob. You got your status Audio TWE's yet?


----------



## bladefd

Canabuc said:


> What about sound don't you like in 85t?
> I was comment on the highs being crisper on the Sony's. The I added a new element to my A/B test. My favorite wireless over wars the B&W P7W.
> And noticed the Sony's were crisper than those too. In fact noticed the p7w sounded very similar to the 85t once I EQ'd the Jabras. So the XM3 have a crisper treble but it doesn't sound quite as natural. The highs once EQ'd are very clear natural without sibilance.
> 
> ...



You tried the Touch, right? Did you ever compare them to the Sony? I don't remember if you did


----------



## dweaver (Jan 13, 2021)

bronco1015 said:


> No prob. You got your status Audio TWE's yet?


I backed out of my pair when I bought the AZ70 as I couldn't afford both. Might end wishing I hadn't but will see people like them .


----------



## Canabuc

kolbo said:


> I’m not sure I can explain. My non tws are Andromedas. I love very clear treble. The Geminis just seem to have detail that the 85t lacks. I keep switching between them.


If you can, do the heading test on them. And eq the treble up to 1/3 to 50% above neutral. Really helps the treble. In my case in on a Samsung phone so I also have Dolby Atmos on. Find the treble  is clear but not harsh. Very smooth.

If you like treble that view then I agree the Sony and the 75t have more of that than the 85t. Technics treble is similar to 85t I've EQ'd.


----------



## Canabuc

bladefd said:


> You tried the Touch, right? Did you ever compare them to the Sony? I don't remember if you did


Haven't tried the touch. Not available on Amazon in Canada's so would have to order direct from CA. Also I want ANC on my next set of buds. Today for example the fan and elliptical noise working out were gone even on the 75t. Seems the best sounding buds with ANC are the MTW2 but at that price point not worth it for me. The jabra are nearly half the price based on what I paid. And my 75t active warehouse deal 1 quarter the price.

Also all the reports of connectivity issues turns me off.


----------



## bladefd

Canabuc said:


> Haven't tried the touch. Not available on Amazon in Canada's so would have to order direct from CA. Also I want ANC on my next set of buds. Today for example the fan and elliptical noise working out were gone even on the 75t. Seems the best sounding buds with ANC are the MTW2 but at that price point not worth it for me. The jabra are nearly half the price based on what I paid. And my 75t active warehouse deal 1 quarter the price.
> 
> Also all the reports of connectivity issues turns me off.



Ah, gotcha. It must have been another poster who was going to compare Sony to the Touch :x


----------



## soullinker20

Got my Geminis. sound is somewhat W shape.
App is buggy. touch sensitivity is sometimes ok.
i like the fit and it is small and dont protrude that much, less than az70w. 
Will post more impressions with Ue Fits and AZ70W


----------



## Eyalpaz

Got my MT today.
Connectivity works perfectly well. App is not the best but don't really need it once you get the hang of the touch controls. Very comfortable, super sound. The sounddddd wow! Audiophile indeed. 
Sits very well in my ear and the transparency mode also work nicely if your GF calling you from the kitchen 
Firmware update went well. Followed instructions and charged the pair before first pairing!


----------



## clerkpalmer

Not many exciting CES announcements yet. Have TWS peaked?


----------



## Viber

Oh god, just received Fiil T1 Lite and i'm *DONE* listening to reviews, especially from Scarbir.
Nothing comes close to my old 14$-23$ ZS6/ZSR + 12$ buggy Kz adapter.

I'm not going to spend more time and money on China TWS, unless it's a very good hybrid effort with good battery from KZ.


----------



## dweaver

sorry, I caved...

Just couldn't let the AZ70 sit there for a week plus unused. I like them to much.  So until the bloom wears of I won't be able to tell if my case discharges over time.

On the flip side I am sitting here happily listening to music while I work...


----------



## dweaver

Eyalpaz said:


> Got my MT today.
> Connectivity works perfectly well. App is not the best but don't really need it once you get the hang of the touch controls. Very comfortable, super sound. The sounddddd wow! Audiophile indeed.
> Sits very well in my ear and the transparency mode also work nicely if your GF calling you from the kitchen
> Firmware update went well. Followed instructions and charged the pair before first pairing!


which true wireless is MT?


----------



## Eyalpaz

dweaver said:


> which true wireless is MT?


Melomania touch


----------



## CocaCola15

So I got the RMA for the Melomania Touch. I have 30 days. To return them. I just started listening to them and I hate to return them. They sound so fine.

Based on the app, the left bud is 100 percent and the right is 50 percent. Same as before. I wonder if the app is just reading it wrong? Also, I keep them in the case when not in use and my usage is usually less than an hour. 

In terms of connectvity. The left one goes on right away, but I have to power the right one on using the touch pad (hold it down for a few seconds). After than, never drops the signal.

Anyway, I need more time with them, see how it goes. If they stay where they are, I'm probably going to keep them. And no ANC? Not a problem. I am typing away and can't hear the keyboard at all (and it's not a quiet one).

Again, the sound is just so fine. I know, not very detailed analysis. But sometimes it's just an ear/hearing thing. I have no analytic chops.


----------



## dweaver (Jan 14, 2021)

Listening to Paradise Circus from Massive Attch and have to say the AZ70 slays this song for me. There is a bass line throughout the song and the AZ70 captures it beautifully. Every strum is felt but never overwhelms the song. This is why for me, the AZ70 work so well as most of my headphones and IEM's would over emphasize this and while it would be good in a droning sort of way it just would not act in the same percussive fashion. BTW I posted this using my computer and when I listened to the song on the PC it sounded horrible. I hope this is just a testament to my crappy built in laptop speakers  .


----------



## feizor

Viber said:


> Oh god, just received Fiil T1 Lite and i'm *DONE* listening to reviews, especially from Scarbir.
> Nothing comes close to my old 14$-23$ ZS6/ZSR + 12$ buggy Kz adapter.
> 
> I'm not going to spend more time and money on China TWS, unless it's a very good hybrid effort with good battery from KZ.



This is surprising. I have the Fiil T1 Pro and find myself reaching for these more than higher priced iem. The highs are slightly bright but personally this doesn't bother me.


----------



## Viber

feizor said:


> This is surprising. I have the Fiil T1 Pro and find myself reaching for these more than higher priced iem. The highs are slightly bright but personally this doesn't bother me.



The Fiil's got nice seperation and some potential for dark sounding genres.
But electric guitars and bright synths?  Just no.


----------



## bladefd

New Samsung buds are up for pre-order btw for $200. Not sure how they will be but will keep an eye out for reviews


----------



## FYLegend

1More ANC Pro is being announced today/tomorrow! Yet another reason I should return the loose-fitting originals... These look like they'd fit my ears better.

https://www.ces.tech/Innovation-Awa...-True-Wireless-ANC-Pro-In-Ear-Headphones.aspx


----------



## faithguy19

FYLegend said:


> 1More ANC Pro is being announced today/tomorrow! Yet another reason I should return the loose-fitting originals... These look like they'd fit my ears better.
> 
> https://www.ces.tech/Innovation-Awa...-True-Wireless-ANC-Pro-In-Ear-Headphones.aspx



They look pretty nice. Hopefully they will have good price/performance to match!


----------



## jant71 (Jan 14, 2021)

FYLegend said:


> 1More ANC Pro is being announced today/tomorrow! Yet another reason I should return the loose-fitting originals... These look like they'd fit my ears better.
> 
> https://www.ces.tech/Innovation-Awa...-True-Wireless-ANC-Pro-In-Ear-Headphones.aspx


Thanks for reminding. The award winners were the first thing I posted about then I forgot about them. So, the JBL Tour is not the only real exciting thing since the 1More would be as well and the Earin if you want bud style. I posted about the Helm winning an award as well but they are a not so exciting stem design. The new Kenwood comes out tomorrow and seems cool with 10mm BE drivers and no app needed adjusting of ambient and noise cancelling amounts and other creature comforts being labeled a "smart headset".



clerkpalmer said:


> Not many exciting CES announcements yet. Have TWS peaked?



Nope. Sure Covid has hurt some I'm sure and killed the schedule and slowed down the new BT5.2 LE stuff so it more like the old standard has peaked but the new one couldn't make its appearance in time for CES. Sony did say they would have something and it got derailed. Noble is still brand new, the touch when all worked out, the new Kenwood, and Aviot and the Nuarl ANC should come to the US soon. More new stuff is out there but just not at CES. Not reached the peak as more and more will fit in good amp chips like the Touch plus LC3+ and better battery and more features.

A better way to look at it is this is the calm before the storm when things get rolling.


----------



## dj24

The galaxy buds pro look very promising when it comes to call quality and wind resistance..

https://www.gsmarena.com/samsung_galaxy_buds_pro_announced_with_improved_call_quality-news-47215.php


----------



## jant71 (Jan 14, 2021)

dj24 said:


> The galaxy buds pro look very promising when it comes to call quality and wind resistance..
> 
> https://www.gsmarena.com/samsung_galaxy_buds_pro_announced_with_improved_call_quality-news-47215.php



Several vids have gone up in the last week as they have sent out quite a few pairs to be reviewed and they are already on sale...


----------



## Luke Skywalker

overall I’m enjoying the Technics EAH-AZ70W-K. The fit is awesome and the sound is much better than the XM3’s

The only negative is yesterday I was running on the treadmill at the gym yesterday and started getting a “clunk” sound from the left bud every time my foot hit the treadmill. It was so annoying that I popped in my N6P’s today.

i keep waiting for someone like JH audio to come out with a true wireless IEM. I have Their Bluetooth cable but The bass isn’t adjustable on it and is too heavy for me


----------



## CocaCola15

Went back and compared the Melomania 1 with the Melomania Touch, and the M1s also still sound very very good, especially with the original CA foam tips. The Touch is for sure a more refined sounding BT IEM, but the difference is more about fit/comfort than sound. For a minor sound boost (10-20%?) it costs $149 vs $79 for the M1s. I am torn, because I do like the improved sound, but the M1s are built like tanks and have very basic design, click not touch. Anyway, I need to sit down and listen at home to both. If I return the Touch, I may try a different brand coming out of CES for an upgrade to the M1, one with ANC maybe, or better mics for calls.


----------



## TheWarmInRain

Newest review  https://www.kopfhoerer.de/test/cambridge-audio-melomania-touch/


----------



## Dregur (Jan 14, 2021)

jant71 said:


> Several vids have gone up in the last week as they have sent out quite a few pairs to be reviewed and they are already on sale...




I keep hearing the ANC is sorta...meh, not exactly top tier.


----------



## Dregur

bladefd said:


> Ah, gotcha. It must have been another poster who was going to compare Sony to the Touch :x



Which Sony's are you trying to compare to? I have the WF-1000xm3's.


----------



## Canabuc

G





dweaver said:


> Listening to Paradise Circus from Massive Attch and have to say the AZ70 slays this song for me. There is a bass line throughout the song and the AZ70 captures it beautifully. Every strum is felt but never overwhelms the song. This is why for me, the AZ70 work so well as most of my headphones and IEM's would over emphasize this and while it would be good in a droning sort of way it just would not act in the same percussive fashion. BTW I posted this using my computer and when I listened to the song on the PC it sounded horrible. I hope this is just a testament to my crappy built in laptop speakers  .



Great song! Will listen to them on the Jabra and see how they go. Am tempted to try the new Liberty air 2 pro.

Sony's going back. Great sound but terrible ergonomics


----------



## bladefd (Jan 14, 2021)

Dregur said:


> Which Sony's are you trying to compare to? I have the WF-1000xm3's.



WF-1000xm3.

I actually had the xm3 until Tuesday, but I ran out of time & had to return them. I was messing with the Touch connection issue then charging issue that I sadly didn't get a chance to do A/B test. I finally think I have the Touch figured out - jiggle it a bit until the red light comes on then you are good to go.

From my memory, I'm pretty sure the Touch have slightly better sound in a smaller lighter package. Bass is slightly on the strong side much like the Sony, mids need to be EQ'd a bit to raise a bit, highs are not as smooth as the Sony, soundstage might be slightly better on the Touch, I feel Touch are bit better in sound quality, Touch are smaller+lighter+ipx4 water-resistant, Sony has better app/case but it's close enough, Touch also have aptx. Overall I think Touch are better because smaller package, better bang for the buck, more comfortable and I think they sound bit better. I am kind of mad I didn't have the time to do A/B test. I actually had time but didn't use it properly.

If CA can get the connection issue fixed, I think these are great earbuds. They sound pretty much on par with the cx400bt, which have same drivers as the MTW2. I think cx400 had more neutral sound that was great out of the box. Touch needed some EQ, doesn't quite sound as natural and cx400bt was better with the highs. Cx400bt was barebones with no iptx water-resistance, no transparency mode and not comfortable. Touch has advantage in all 3 things.


----------



## Forceberg

soullinker20 said:


> Got my Geminis. sound is somewhat W shape.
> App is buggy. touch sensitivity is sometimes ok.
> i like the fit and it is small and dont protrude that much, less than az70w.
> Will post more impressions with Ue Fits and AZ70W



Touch sensitivity is not good, especially the double tap seem to be a hit or miss.
App worked fine for me, except a few failed fit-tests (which also induced an imbalance). I haven’t experienced any connections issues so far. The firmware update failed once but worked on the second try.
I noticed at least for me that any strange behaviour (like buds showing 0 % battery although charged) could be solved by unpairing them and pair again with phone.

I’m keeping them crossing fingers Devialet will update firmware. The sound is just amazing imo. Compared to other TW these are my favourites


----------



## chortya

Dregur said:


> I keep hearing the ANC is sorta...meh, not exactly top tier.


I would be more interested in proper SQ review from somebody who at least understands hifi.
I have ordered S21 Ultra and Buds Pro are added as pre-order goodie but I still need to wait until 26th when the package arrives. Looking forward to test it.


----------



## BobJS

dweaver said:


> sorry, I caved...
> 
> Just couldn't let the AZ70 sit there for a week plus unused. I like them to much.  So until the bloom wears of I won't be able to tell if my case discharges over time.
> 
> On the flip side I am sitting here happily listening to music while I work...



You must be an iphone user.  As a Galaxy user, anything without Aptx or LDAC is a non-starter.


----------



## Canabuc

BobJS said:


> You must be an iphone user.  As a Galaxy user, anything without Aptx or LDAC is a non-starter.


Have Samsung phone myself. Don't find AAC bad at all on my Jabra or when I tested the Technics.


----------



## jant71

BobJS said:


> You must be an iphone user.  As a Galaxy user, anything without Aptx or LDAC is a non-starter.



Though as far as TWS, LDAC is a non-starter. None have and probably won't as there will be the new standard and the more efficent LC3+ soon enough. LDAC in TWS was never a player and probably won't be in the TWS segment. Not sure why a smaller outfit like Hiby can have a true wireless with their UAT codec but Sony couldn't do one with LDAC.


----------



## mdickerman

What is the impact of Bluetooth 5.2? Is it worth specifically finding a source and earphone that support it?


----------



## BobJS (Jan 15, 2021)

jant71 said:


> Though as far as TWS, LDAC is a non-starter. None have and probably won't as there will be the new standard and the more efficent LC3+ soon enough. LDAC in TWS was never a player and probably won't be in the TWS segment. Not sure why a smaller outfit like Hiby can have a true wireless with their UAT codec but Sony couldn't do one with LDAC.



I use LDAC all the time between my phone and ES100.  Yes, not true wireless, and not really waiting for LDAC on a true wireless.  I was really saying that, on my Samsung Galaxy S10+ at least, AAC is not implemented particularly well and is noticeably inferior to AptX.

Edit:  Could I tolerate AAC?  Of course.  At this point, though there's no need to settle.  It's not like I don't already have way more stuff than I need or really could ever use.


----------



## cresny (Jan 15, 2021)

BobJS said:


> I use LDAC all the time between my phone and ES100.  Yes, not true wireless, and not really waiting for LDAC on a true wireless.  I was really saying that, on my Samsung Galaxy S10+ at least, AAC is not implemented particularly well and is noticeably inferior to AptX.
> 
> Edit:  Could I tolerate AAC?  Of course.  At this point, though there's no need to settle.  It's not like I don't already have way more stuff than I need or really could ever use.


I can concur same on my Pixel 2XL, toggling in developer options. I'm sure it's posted elsewhere, but has anyone conclusively done an AAC I-phone to Android comparison? I was thinking of switching to an i-phone but this would give me pause.


----------



## Dregur

bladefd said:


> WF-1000xm3.
> 
> I actually had the xm3 until Tuesday, but I ran out of time & had to return them. I was messing with the Touch connection issue then charging issue that I sadly didn't get a chance to do A/B test. I finally think I have the Touch figured out - jiggle it a bit until the red light comes on then you are good to go.
> 
> ...



I don't have a ton of time to do an A/B, but I dislike the Sony's sound in general. Compared to the MT's, the bass is boomy, and the resolution and imaging is incredibly congested. The ANC is pretty good (not as good as any of my ANC over the ears of course), but I have been trying to find a replacement TWS with similar to better ANC because I don't like the sound. The fit/comfort is okay for me, but the MT's definitely win. The case feels better than the MT's but it is quite a bit larger, but does come with NFC, so initial pairing quite a bit easier.


----------



## feizor (Jan 15, 2021)

Viber said:


> The Fiil's got nice seperation and some potential for dark sounding genres.
> But electric guitars and bright synths?  Just no.



Fair comment. I haven't listened to much electric guitar or synths specifically and can't speak for the Fiil T1 Lite but on the T1 Pros EDM sounds very good. This is also comparing with Sony WH and WF 1000xm3.

Edit: speaking about sound quality only. For ANC Fiil doesn't hold a candle to Sony.


----------



## dweaver

BobJS said:


> You must be an iphone user.  As a Galaxy user, anything without Aptx or LDAC is a non-starter.


I am a brand new S20 user and S9 before that, like Canabuck I don't mind AAC. I actually own several LDAC products (fullsize or wired BT products) and also own several that do APTx or APTxHD. LDAC sounds great and APTxHD is good but I prefer AAC over APTx myself as I find APTx to be a bit brittle sounding to my ears and unfortunately my S9 did not support the HD codec so I was unable to use that so found myself using AAC or occasionally LDAC.

Having said all that I have to say that the drivers and tuning play as big or bigger role than codecs in my opinion. I own the WH-1000XM3, WH-910N, WI-1000X (neckband noise cancelling first gen Sony product) and while each sounds good for different reasons none have more detail than the AZ70 IMO even though all of them use LDAC. As for TWS as someone else mentioned nobody has released an LDAC version yet and I do not believe anyone has an APTxHD version either (unless that standard has been absorbed or renamed into a new APTx standard/codec I am aware of...).


----------



## jant71

BobJS said:


> I use LDAC all the time between my phone and ES100.  Yes, not true wireless, and not really waiting for LDAC on a true wireless.  I was really saying that, on my Samsung Galaxy S10+ at least, AAC is not implemented particularly well and is noticeably inferior to AptX.
> 
> Edit:  Could I tolerate AAC?  Of course.  At this point, though there's no need to settle.  It's not like I don't already have way more stuff than I need or really could ever use.



I had gotten the Sony neckband model refurb for $40 and was rocking the LDAC for a while. Of course that brought the 3 button control which is also nice to have. We need that more in TWS. The Nuarl N6 had that and it is good esp. when adding more features. Hate tapping three or even for times or leaving out stuff since you don't have the options with on touch area. The TWS industry really can do better and be more inventive and convenient. Hopefully they will be in the future. At times they seem to lack common sense or just not do all they can to do it right.


----------



## Rafinnnnnn15

Hello, I currently have the 1more nubia pods tws and the edifier tws5, but I want something a little better, I do not know any recommendation that has between $ 100- $ 150 dollars, I am looking for the "Edifier Tws6" that is seen on aliexpress at 80 dollars good and interesting for the Knowles controllers and apart I'm looking at the LYPERTEK TEVI, but I don't know how it works out of the latter, I hope you can help me: D


----------



## Viber

feizor said:


> Fair comment. I haven't listened to much electric guitar or synths specifically and can't speak for the Fiil T1 Lite but on the T1 Pros EDM sounds very good. This is also comparing with Sony WH and WF 1000xm3.
> 
> Edit: speaking about sound quality only. For ANC Fiil doesn't hold a candle to Sony.



You use Aptx?


----------



## howdy

Rafinnnnnn15 said:


> Hello, I currently have the 1more nubia pods tws and the edifier tws5, but I want something a little better, I do not know any recommendation that has between $ 100- $ 150 dollars, I am looking for the "Edifier Tws6" that is seen on aliexpress at 80 dollars good and interesting for the Knowles controllers and apart I'm looking at the LYPERTEK TEVI, but I don't know how it works out of the latter, I hope you can help me: D


What is it you want to know about the Tevis? I have them and they are amazing! Love the sound and you can eq them to your liking with the app.


----------



## dweaver (Jan 15, 2021)

I like these darn AZ70 enough I starting to wonder if the EAH-F70N might be worth buying if I can find a can find a good price.

Do wish they had BT 5.x and a USB-C charging though but other than that tempted so long as I can find a reasonable price...

Hmmmmm,   mighty tempting...


----------



## bronco1015

BobJS said:


> You must be an iphone user.  As a Galaxy user, anything without Aptx or LDAC is a non-starter.


IMO, AAC on the LG V60 is much improoved. To the point where i'm willing to give something a shot at least if it doesn't have APTX, and the AZ70 sound great to my ears.


----------



## DigDub

Fiil t1 pro. Now I understand what the praise is all about. Clear sound without being harsh and the bass sounds fluid. Natural timbre. The app is useful. A very minor issue is that I wished the voice prompt for changing between ANC off/on/ambient mode can be louder as it is quite soft


----------



## ForgotMyName

I was thinking ces would have wireless buds with aptx hd, but I guess not. Has there ever been a reason given for that? I want to go wireless, but I don't want a huge downgrade from my flc8s. It's a shame that the melomania touch kind of flopped.


----------



## C_Lindbergh

ForgotMyName said:


> I was thinking ces would have wireless buds with aptx hd, but I guess not. Has there ever been a reason given for that?



Probably the extra battery consumption or possibly the lack of bandwith. 

Bluetooth LE/LC3 should solve both those issues thought.


----------



## SilverEars (Jan 16, 2021)

Dregur said:


> I keep hearing the ANC is sorta...meh, not exactly top tier.


I could care less about what he heard.  This guy measured the performance and in some ways it's better than APP.   I was looking forward to this one and ordered a set!  If it got the same bass as QC buds, score!
This guy saying 5 hrs with ANC, and The Verge saying 4 hrs. hmmm  But, Verge says 8 hrs with ANC off.

https://www.0db.co.kr/REVIEW_0DB/1721231

Turn English subtitles on.


----------



## voicemaster

So, I preordered the S21 ultra and got $200 credit on samsung store so I also ordered the galaxy buds pro. I am not really picky about ANC but a good ambiance mode, sound and call quality are most important.


----------



## Canabuc

Crinacle just gave buds pro his top sound ranking of any tws!


----------



## dweaver

Will be interested in your impressions on the Bud Pro.

I bought the S20 during Black Friday week as I was able to get almost for $40 a month off the financing price per month. So only paying $25/mth for 2 years which I thought was a good deal. Glad I did since the S21 has removed the MicroSD slot and went with a plastic back cover. So the S20 fits my needs much better.

Have to admit I miss the headphone jack of my S9 but I am getting over that... LOL.


----------



## Canabuc

Wish they were available on Amazon. Can order from the source but not sure their return policy. Stores on lockdown here in Montreal until February.


----------



## clerkpalmer

I read a review stating the Pro sounds better than on a Note 10 than an iPhone. I am genuinely interested in why this would be the case. They support AAC which is implemented well in an iPhone. The sound should be as good. Aptx adaptive shouldn’t really be an upgrade on Apples AAC should it? I am coming around to the science that AAC as implemented by Apple is audibly transparent.


----------



## Canabuc

Samsung scalable codec


----------



## clerkpalmer

Canabuc said:


> Samsung scalable codec


My bad. Still it shouldn’t be any better than AAC on an i device.


----------



## jant71 (Jan 16, 2021)

Can anybody translate these instructions? They do translate but the section in Use of Each Feature about L and R operation of ambient and ANC translates and then disappears under/after "simple operation on the L and more detailed operation on R".
https://manual2.jvckenwood.com/accessory/headphones/contents/ws-a1/jp/BONDSYyfrjkppg.php
Thanks! Those two clickable sections are the only thing I am missing really. I I do think I can guess from what I can quickly read but not scroll down any. I think the L toggles between ambient, voice enhancement, and NC modes and on R you swipe to adjust the amount?


----------



## voicemaster

clerkpalmer said:


> I read a review stating the Pro sounds better than on a Note 10 than an iPhone. I am genuinely interested in why this would be the case. They support AAC which is implemented well in an iPhone. The sound should be as good. Aptx adaptive shouldn’t really be an upgrade on Apples AAC should it? I am coming around to the science that AAC as implemented by Apple is audibly transparent.


Same as when you are using airpods on android device. Tho in galaxy buds case, they are the best when paired up with samsung phone because they unlock the "scalable codec" in the developer options.


----------



## rhsauer (Jan 20, 2021)

rhsauer said:


> I was lucky enough to get to try these new Soundcore Liberty Air 2 Pros -- and I will try to write a longer review after a few days (because I think it's important to test over a few days before forming any meaningful opinions) -- but for now, I can say they are impressive.  You can read all their specifications on their website, so I won't rehash them here -- but, more subjectively, I will say that (1) the sound is reminiscent of the Liberty 2 Pros in timbre and tuning (but not _quite_ as good because the L2P is, after all, a dual driver), (2) the microphones seem amazing (and the call quality, I'm told, is great), (3) the ANC seems very, very good (although I haven't had a chance to test it on subways or planes for obvious reasons), and (4) the case is a really nice form factor (like the L2P but much smaller).  Highly recommended for the price.  Frankly, I was hoping that these would have the same coaxial driver setup that the L2Ps have, but they don't -- so I guess that gives us something to look forward to.  In any event, these earphones sound great, just not as great as the L2Ps.


I've been listening to the new Soundcore Liberty Air 2 Pros for about a week now and wanted to supplement my early impressions above.  These are very, very nice earphones.  I'm enjoying the sound more and more -- great highs, thumping lows, very reminiscent of the L2Ps, if not quite as good.  (And since the L2Ps are, in my view, among the best sounding TWEs on the market, "not quite as good" is still very, very good.) 

Also on the upside, the Soundcore app is terrific.  Not only can you choose from many equalizer presets, but you can then customize them -- or overlay presets onto your HearID settings. (HearID is basically a hearing test that determines which frequencies you have trouble hearing and accommodates accordingly.)  The app allows you to adjust both the ANC (highlighting Transport sounds, Indoor sounds, or Outdoor sounds) and the Transparency mode (letting all sounds through or focusing on voices only -- which seems to work well).

And the case, which slides open like the L2P case, is incredibly easy to use one-handed.  I thought the lid mechanism was a gimmick at first, but it's actually incredibly ergonomic and convenient.

On the downside, I've found the earphones to be a bit less comfortable than I originally thought they would be.  They are designed for narrow insertion, and I found it difficult to prevent the plastic part of the earphone from touching my ear cartilage, which gets uncomfortable pretty quickly.  None of the nine (9!) sizes of tips that are included really worked for me.  I ended up switching to the Spinfit CP360s, which helped a lot.  The CP360s fit in the case, but the case isn't big enough to accommodate tips longer than the CP360s -- and a bit more room would be nice.  With the Spinfits, the low end deepens and the highs sweeten (without any sibilance or harshness), and the ANC is noticeably better.  Fit is obviously personal, but I'm always amazed at how important a good fit is to both sound and ANC.

Bottom line:

Pros -- Terrific sound quality, very good (and adjustable) ANC and transparency modes, great (perhaps best in class) microphones and call noise suppression, app support and equalizers, connection reliability, battery life (5-6 hours with ANC on, depending on volume), and small and very cool case.  At $129, if this form factor and feature set is what you're looking for, I think these are priced very well for what you get -- and I would recommend them highly.  (And I think there are still discount codes available.)

Cons -- Fit (personal, and can be [mostly] fixed with the right tip), no multipoint, no AptX (SBC and AAC only).  Sound quality, while great, falls short of the L2P (which have dual drivers and are startlingly good to my ears).  

It's hard to find a comparable set of ANC buds at this price (maybe just the Jabra 75T?)


----------



## Canabuc

Have they updated the firmware to let you control volume from the buds as well as the tracks?


----------



## rhsauer

Canabuc said:


> Have they updated the firmware to let you control volume from the buds as well as the tracks?


Not sure if you're asking about the Liberty Air 2 Pros, but, if you are, the answer is you can control both volume and ANC -- but to do so you have to give up track control and Siri.  I have mapped "two taps" as play/pause (R) and Siri (L), and "long press" as volume up (R) and volume down (L).  I change ANC modes infrequently enough that it's not inconvenient to use the app.


----------



## Canabuc

They should add triple trap then you can have it all. How would you compare the LA2P to some other tws


----------



## clerkpalmer

voicemaster said:


> Same as when you are using airpods on android device. Tho in galaxy buds case, they are the best when paired up with samsung phone because they unlock the "scalable codec" in the developer options.


I guess I don’t understand why though. Apples superior implementation of AAC is on the phone side and therefore it should be superior with every tws that has AAC. Not saying this isn’t true but I’d like to understand why. If AAC is transparent in an iPhone, Samsung’s codec shouldn’t be any better.


----------



## tinyman392

clerkpalmer said:


> I guess I don’t understand why though. Apples superior implementation of AAC is on the phone side and therefore it should be superior with every tws that has AAC. Not saying this isn’t true but I’d like to understand why. If AAC is transparent in an iPhone, Samsung’s codec shouldn’t be any better.


Yes and no.  If you are using a headphone that supports AAC and using AAC as the codec on the iPhone/iPad/Mac vs using it on a Windows/Linux/Android device, you'll likely find that the Apple device sounds better.  However, when other options are available, then those options then we start comparing different codecs and asking if we can tell the difference between said codecs.

Edit: So in the case above, is Samsung's scaleable codec on a Samsung phone superior to AAC on an iPhone?  That would be the million dollar question.  It's likely that AAC on the Samsung phone is worse than AAC on the iPhone though.


----------



## clerkpalmer

The new Earin looks cool. Seemed like the most interesting tws from CES.


----------



## clerkpalmer

tinyman392 said:


> Yes and no.  If you are using a headphone that supports AAC and using AAC as the codec on the iPhone/iPad/Mac vs using it on a Windows/Linux/Android device, you'll likely find that the Apple device sounds better.  However, when other options are available, then those options then we start comparing different codecs and asking if we can tell the difference between said codecs.


I agree. Now tell me whether you can hear a difference between LDAC on Android versus AAC on iOS. Most blind studies suggests you cannot. I can definitely hear a difference between AAC on an Android device and LDAC on that same device. But switching over to iOS, I’m not sure. I was doing some AB with my Ananda BT between my pixel using LDAC and my iPhone. If there is a difference, I couldn’t tell to be honest. Maybe I’m lucky that my ears are bad.


----------



## rhsauer

Canabuc said:


> They should add triple trap then you can have it all. How would you compare the LA2P to some other tws


It's comparable in price/sound/features to the Jabra 75t -- and probably also comparable to the more expensive Jabra 85t (though I think the 85t may sound a bit better).  (There is a house Jabra sound and a house Soundcore sound.)  The LA2P sounds better than the APP (except for the APP's killer Apple integration).


----------



## voicemaster

clerkpalmer said:


> I agree. Now tell me whether you can hear a difference between LDAC on Android versus AAC on iOS. Most blind studies suggests you cannot. I can definitely hear a difference between AAC on an Android device and LDAC on that same device. But switching over to iOS, I’m not sure. I was doing some AB with my Ananda BT between my pixel using LDAC and my iPhone. If there is a difference, I couldn’t tell to be honest. Maybe I’m lucky that my ears are bad.


I can hear the difference when playing my galaxy buds live on PC and on my S20+. On pc, it is default on SBC and I can hear crackling or graininess on the top end. This most likely because I am using it indoor with very low noise, when you using it outside, it is very hard to distinguish. I don't have any iPhone so I don't know how it sounds on iOS.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

SBC vs better codecs is pretty obvious. After that I take anyone claiming to readily hear the difference with a grain of salt big enough to chase Indiana Jones.


----------



## clerkpalmer

SomeGuyDude said:


> SBC vs better codecs is pretty obvious. After that I take anyone claiming to readily hear the difference with a grain of salt big enough to chase Indiana Jones.


I am coming around to this although AAC on Android is noticeably worse than iOS. I’d put AAC on Android right there with SBC.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

clerkpalmer said:


> I am coming around to this although AAC on Android is noticeably worse than iOS. I’d put AAC on Android right there with SBC.



This is possible. I've only used AAC on a few occasions and never on anything that had higher codecs available so I couldn't compare. I'm still baffled that B&O made a $550 set that topped out at AAC.


----------



## Canabuc

rhsauer said:


> It's comparable in price/sound/features to the Jabra 75t -- and probably also comparable to the more expensive Jabra 85t (though I think the 85t may sound a bit better).  (There is a house Jabra sound and a house Soundcore sound.)  The LA2P sounds better than the APP (except for the APP's killer Apple integration).


So if I have 75t active wouldn't be worth the switch for better sound quality?


----------



## rhsauer

Canabuc said:


> So if I have 75t active wouldn't be worth the switch for better sound quality?


Only if you like the Soundcore house sound better than the Jabra house sound.   The Jabras are more laid back.


----------



## FYLegend

_Any confirmation on the SBC Bitpool of the Galaxy Buds Pro?_

Can't speak for them as I don't use them I read somewhere that AAC and SBC are throttled to 160kbps on some OnePlus devices, and possibly other Android devices. Not sure if this was ever addressed. Samsung is supposed to have one of the better AAC implementations but still poor compared to Apple. On the Note 9 I think AAC is more or less on par with AptX and possibly _slightly_ better than SBC. However, on my 1More MK802 and Dyplay Over-ear Urban Traveller 2, AptX is adding some weird distortion to clipped tracks. I also read that AptX may also be cutting off some frequencies or compressing the dynamic range.

As for Samsung Scalable codec, some users have complained about "bit crush". While I haven't noticed much distortion on the Buds+ with Scalable, sometimes the string instruments sound too tall and brassy which might be a result of bit crush. The Buds+ are utter trash for SBC with their bitpool 37, maybe if you have Linux or an Android custom ROM you might be able to tweak SBC to sound better.



voicemaster said:


> I can hear the difference when playing my galaxy buds live on PC and on my S20+. On pc, it is default on SBC and I can hear crackling or graininess on the top end. This most likely because I am using it indoor with very low noise, when you using it outside, it is very hard to distinguish. I don't have any iPhone so I don't know how it sounds on iOS.


The Buds Live/Buds+ just have a bad implementation of SBC with the bitpool set at 37. Windows 10 can support a Bitpool 53 which almost as good as AAC. My Earfun Free Pro (bitpool 52) sounds about the same with SBC as with AAC, though SBC is a bit more splashy in the treble and the bass is more boomy. However, SBC even at Bitpool 53 shows some weird artifacts when I play the frequency sweeps on audiocheck.net, like a high-pitched whine overlaying the played frequency, but I've yet to have anything like this affect "real-world" music.



DigDub said:


> Fiil t1 pro. Now I understand what the praise is all about. Clear sound without being harsh and the bass sounds fluid. Natural timbre. The app is useful. A very minor issue is that I wished the voice prompt for changing between ANC off/on/ambient mode can be louder as it is quite soft


How much better is the sound from the Earfun Free Pro? I find those a tad too flabby in the bass although they are great overall. Are you able to still use ambient/ANC with a single bud out of the case? (I can't do this with Earfun Free Pro)

One user here also mentioned the T1 Pro has a lowered SBC bitpool than normal though they didn't specify. The Earfun Free Pro has a bitpool of 53.


----------



## Canabuc

rhsauer said:


> Only if you like the Soundcore house sound better than the Jabra house sound.   The Jabras are more laid back.


Truth is open L2P and elite Active 75t and like neither signature sound but EQ them to the best sound for me.
The 85t have a better sound than the 75t. And are likely the buds I will be keeping. Just wish their treble was a bit crisper. I think it was but the firmware update pushed up the low end as people complained about the bass being better on 75t


----------



## DigDub (Jan 16, 2021)

FYLegend said:


> How much better is the sound from the Earfun Free Pro? I find those a tad too flabby in the bass although they are great overall. Are you able to still use ambient/ANC with a single bud out of the case? (I can't do this with Earfun Free Pro)
> 
> One user here also mentioned the T1 Pro has a lowered SBC bitpool than normal though they didn't specify. The Earfun Free Pro has a bitpool of 53.


The t1 pro sounds more balanced than the earfun. The earfun has this persistent bass which can be distracting. What the t1 pro gets right is that the high/mid/low frequencies are well tuned without over/under emphasis, so even if I try to nitpick on the sound quality, it is hard to find one frequency which sounds excessively overdone or recessed. The bass quality sounds so fluid that it sounds almost as if it came from full sized headphones rather than a tiny driver.

I'm unable to use ANC or ambient mode with only a single bud. There's skip back track on the t1 pro which is missing on the earfun. The app for the t1 pro is also massively useful.

Not sure about the bitpool thing as I've never really looked into it.


----------



## bronco1015

last week i got the Soundcore Life A2NC in for review. they remind me of a smaller L2P. They have decent ANC but transparency mode doesn't seem to work that well, i almost wonder if this pair is defective because while i can adjust the level of it in the soundcore app, it's maximum volume is at a lower volume than even the OG MTW's transparency mode. .
Sound by default has a pretty aggressive bass similar to my ears, to what i remember when first using the L2P. It didn't tame down at all after a couple days of burn in, so i finally made my own eq. Default sound to my ears had a boomy bass with decent treble extention though a bit synthetic sounding at times, and mids that sounded....crowded. now i've got quite a different sound. less bass over all, hardly any bass bleed, only happens here and there. Bass and mids sound much smoother, though i don't think i can completely get rid of the rough patches i do hear at times. mids are much more full and realistic sounding and same with treble.
ANC doesn't seem to bad. i'm using 2nd to smallest default tips and smallest fins, and it blocks out a good chunk of fan noise, and the car engine.
Calls sound just fine to me, and people could hear me just fine, but could also hear everything in the background.
I think these go for $40ish IIRC, they are a great value for that price imo.


----------



## bronco1015

clerkpalmer said:


> I agree. Now tell me whether you can hear a difference between LDAC on Android versus AAC on iOS. Most blind studies suggests you cannot. I can definitely hear a difference between AAC on an Android device and LDAC on that same device. But switching over to iOS, I’m not sure. I was doing some AB with my Ananda BT between my pixel using LDAC and my iPhone. If there is a difference, I couldn’t tell to be honest. Maybe I’m lucky that my ears are bad.


I'd be curious to try. While i did mention a couple pages back that AAC is much improved on the V60, it's still to my ears generally speaking, implemented way better on an iPhone. i got this pair of TWE's in for review several months back, they were generic i can't remember the name unfortunately. Anyway, they supported SBC and AAC, and at times sounded wayyy boomy on the V60. I gave them to a friend who paired them with her iPhone XS, and they sounded much better. it wasn't even close.


----------



## Caipirina

DigDub said:


> Fiil t1 pro. Now I understand what the praise is all about. Clear sound without being harsh and the bass sounds fluid. Natural timbre. The app is useful. A very minor issue is that I wished the voice prompt for changing between ANC off/on/ambient mode can be louder as it is quite soft


You managed to get the app to run? Android I guess? And did they send you extra tips, or are those yours? I am actually happy with the large size that were in the box. And yes, they sound amazing, as long as you don't walk / run


----------



## DigDub

Caipirina said:


> You managed to get the app to run? Android I guess? And did they send you extra tips, or are those yours? I am actually happy with the large size that were in the box. And yes, they sound amazing, as long as you don't walk / run


I managed to get the chinese app to run on my Samsung note 20 ultra without issues. I bought it from a physical shop and the seller was kind enough to give me a few sets of extra tips including a pair of foam ones. I'm not noticing any issue using them while walking. What issues did you encounter?


----------



## erockg (Jan 17, 2021)

Had a wild hair and picked up the Devialet Gemini.  Zero issues so far outside of that it took me three tried to update the right earbud but it did work.  I must say, the sound is just sick.  Wide soundstage and a more lively than my MTW2's.  Bass hits hard.  Still having issues with finding the right earbud tips.  Case isn't as large as I thought it would be.  No volume controls.  Really hope they add them with a firmware update.  ANC is very very good.  Up there with the Sennies as long as you have a great seal.


----------



## Kuli

New here. Been following the thread ever since I bought the unfortunate Cambridge Melomania, now returned. Just couldn't deal with all the connection issues and since it wasn't any step up in sound (too bass heavy) compared to the Technics (my favorite) or Lypertek (2nd favorite) then I had no reason to keep struggling to get them connected to my phone.

Any one else have luck with theirs?


----------



## kolbo

erockg said:


> Had a wild hair and picked up the Devialet Gemini.  Zero issues so far outside of that it took me three tried to update the right earbud but it did work.  I must say, the sound is just sick.  Wide soundstage and a more lively than my MTW2's.  Bass hits hard.  Still having issues with finding the right earbud tips.  Case isn't as large as I thought it would be.  No volume controls.  Really hope they add them with a firmware update.  ANC is very very good.  Up there with the Sennies as long as you have a great seal.


The best seal I got is with XELASTEC tips. My main issue with those is that they I can hear them deform when I work my jaw (eating etc.)
I have seal issues with SpinFits - I can get them to seal but it takes a lot of work and patience every time in one ear.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

kolbo said:


> The best seal I got is with XELASTEC tips. My main issue with those is that they I can hear them deform when I work my jaw (eating etc.)
> I have seal issues with SpinFits - I can get them to seal but it takes a lot of work and patience every time in one ear.



XELASTEC also has a warping problem that I've never experienced with any other tips.


----------



## bladefd

Kuli said:


> New here. Been following the thread ever since I bought the unfortunate Cambridge Melomania, now returned. Just couldn't deal with all the connection issues and since it wasn't any step up in sound (too bass heavy) compared to the Technics (my favorite) or Lypertek (2nd favorite) then I had no reason to keep struggling to get them connected to my phone.
> 
> Any one else have luck with theirs?



I think it's a charging issue. You have to ensure the red light turns on when placing them in the case. I have to make sure of that.

You also have to wait for them to connect. What I do now is take out just one bud (the one that is paired which happens to be the left one), wait for it to connect, then take out the 2nd one from the case. It seems to be working well so far.


----------



## erockg

kolbo said:


> The best seal I got is with XELASTEC tips. My main issue with those is that they I can hear them deform when I work my jaw (eating etc.)
> I have seal issues with SpinFits - I can get them to seal but it takes a lot of work and patience every time in one ear.


What size X tips did you get?  I’m using the large OEM right now.  A little shallow and I have the same issues as you with the SF.


----------



## kolbo

erockg said:


> What size X tips did you get?  I’m using the large OEM right now.  A little shallow and I have the same issues as you with the SF.


I’m using the MS. Maybe I should try the smaller ones.


----------



## Caipirina

DigDub said:


> I managed to get the chinese app to run on my Samsung note 20 ultra without issues. I bought it from a physical shop and the seller was kind enough to give me a few sets of extra tips including a pair of foam ones. I'm not noticing any issue using them while walking. What issues did you encounter?


Typical runner's THUD on each foot fall, amplified by very much sealed earholes   Happens with most TWS that seal well.


----------



## chinmie

Caipirina said:


> Typical runner's THUD on each foot fall, amplified by very much sealed earholes   Happens with most TWS that seal well.



on the topic of runner's thud, this two eartips model is interesting, buf i don't know if the Pioneer ones are sold separately 





https://www.hifiheadphones.co.uk/pr...d-silicone-sports-eartips-extra-small-3-pairs

anyone has ever found something similar to these?


----------



## CocaCola15 (Jan 17, 2021)

Kuli said:


> New here. Been following the thread ever since I bought the unfortunate Cambridge Melomania, now returned. Just couldn't deal with all the connection issues and since it wasn't any step up in sound (too bass heavy) compared to the Technics (my favorite) or Lypertek (2nd favorite) then I had no reason to keep struggling to get them connected to my phone.
> 
> Any one else have luck with theirs?


Actually, I love the M1s. Don’t hear them bass heavy and connection issues have gone away with FW updates. However, I truly only favor them using the OEM foam tips, so I managed to secure the larger of CA’s foamies (they only made two sizes). With foam, they sound great and I also am a fan of click not touch. Having said that I also just bought the Melomania Touch, which at $149 are $70 more than the M1 (Anazon price). The Touch sound is a bit better, but some charging issues. Not sure I will kerp them or not.
Oops. Are you talking M1 or Touch? There are two Melomania models.


----------



## DigDub

Caipirina said:


> Typical runner's THUD on each foot fall, amplified by very much sealed earholes   Happens with most TWS that seal well.


I see. I don't find that a distraction though.


----------



## FYLegend

DigDub said:


> The t1 pro sounds more balanced than the earfun. The earfun has this persistent bass which can be distracting. What the t1 pro gets right is that the high/mid/low frequencies are well tuned without over/under emphasis, so even if I try to nitpick on the sound quality, it is hard to find one frequency which sounds excessively overdone or recessed. The bass quality sounds so fluid that it sounds almost as if it came from full sized headphones rather than a tiny driver.
> 
> I'm unable to use ANC or ambient mode with only a single bud. There's skip back track on the t1 pro which is missing on the earfun. The app for the t1 pro is also massively useful.
> 
> Not sure about the bitpool thing as I've never really looked into it.


Bitpool can be tested if you have an Android phone. Get the btsnoop.log file from your Android phone (you may need to extract it using ADB via USB connection).  Then upload your file to this tool. 

Still haven't heard any news about the Buds Pro. I asked one YouTube reviewer who responded that he just found Windows 10 Bluetooth too tedious to use with too much latency compared to mobile. My experience has been the opposite with my BT5.0 laptop - latency is typically better than Android, such that casual games are fine.


----------



## axhng

Caipirina said:


> You managed to get the app to run? Android I guess? And did they send you extra tips, or are those yours? I am actually happy with the large size that were in the box. And yes, they sound amazing, as long as you don't walk / run



don't have the T1 Pro but have the T1XS/T1X, and not my favourite for jogging as well. I can mostly ignore the thud from footsteps but not the most enjoyable since gotta push the volume louder.  the fit is really secure and has above average passive isolation for TWS though. not sure if anyone encounters this too since it might just be my ears, but the sound signature changes slightly when i'm looking straight ahead vs when i'm looking down on the ground.


----------



## Kuli

CocaCola15 said:


> Actually, I love the M1s. Don’t hear them bass heavy and connection issues have gone away with FW updates. However, I truly only favor them using the OEM foam tips, so I managed to secure the larger of CA’s foamies (they only made two sizes). With foam, they sound great and I also am a fan of click not touch. Having said that I also just bought the Melomania Touch, which at $149 are $70 more than the M1 (Anazon price). The Touch sound is a bit better, but some charging issues. Not sure I will kerp them or not.
> Oops. Are you talking M1 or Touch? There are two Melomania models.



Melomania Touch. I really wanted to keep them but the connection issues were very frustrating. I paired both earbuds for the first time and listened to them for an hour. After placing them back in the charging case and trying to resume my listening later. The right earbud paired and the left paired and didn't connect. That was the beginning of my frustrations. 

I reset them almost 20 times with the same result. Right paired but left didn't connect. I read this thread and one on avforum about seating the buds properly and waiting for the red light to turn white and also let one pair first before removing the other from the case etc. I tried it all. It just seemed like I was doing beta testing for Cambridge Audio. 

Eventually returned it and ordered Sennheiser cx-400bt


----------



## Kuli

bladefd said:


> I think it's a charging issue. You have to ensure the red light turns on when placing them in the case. I have to make sure of that.
> 
> You also have to wait for them to connect. What I do now is take out just one bud (the one that is paired which happens to be the left one), wait for it to connect, then take out the 2nd one from the case. It seems to be working well so far.



I don't think mine was a charging issue. I made sure the red lights came on and even waited for it to go off. Trued several times after reading this thread. Also tried taking them out one at a time to connect.

It just got too much trying to get basic functionality to work. Didn't help that I have better sounding earbuds, so I simply returned it.


----------



## Caipirina (Jan 18, 2021)

DigDub said:


> I see. I don't find that a distraction though.


I am exploring mine more and learn Chinese along the way. Tried to get the iOS app, but the iTunes Store would not let me change country unless I have a valid payment method there. Bummer. And then the right bud starts talking to me ... I keep getting a message precisely every 5 minutes... I googled if it might be ‘recharge’ ..  although, the buds show 100% ... so, anyone any clue what (and I apologize for my phonetic transcription) “*chin chon bien*” could mean?


----------



## helmutcheese (Jan 18, 2021)

My *SoundPeats H1 Premium's* came today, I am not really a reviewer but this is what I typed on Kickstarter.

=================================================================================================================

"H1 Premiums arrive today, set them up and little disappointed to see the same cheap pairing as the Sonics in that they try to auto pair each time they are disconnected from a device so not ideal.

Not sure if they remember 2-3 devices like all my other SoundPeats Neckbands or simply forget/repair each time.

Also the App in a nightmare to sign up to as the email box is just out of screen so you cannot type in it, I manage to get my email in by copy/pasting and messing about to finally hit the Verification Button.

I did not see any option to check/update Firmware, they have an EQ setting and a ANC setting which I assume does nothing on these.

Also same as Sonics in that QUALCOMM's claim of aptx-Adaptative being backwards compatible is bollocks as it falls back to aptX on my Moto Z2 Force instead of aptX-HD so if I listen to amazon HD or any Hi-Res it will be stuck with 16/44.1, I would be better of listening on my SoundPeats Force HD in aptx-HD.

The sound is not that great TBH (I would rather disable the EQ fully and use PowerAmp's EQ but you cannot) but the volume unlike the Sonics is pretty loud using SpinFits tips as none of the included tips are large enough for me as like the Sonics they did not include their XL tips."

=================================================================================================================

(The sound is ok now I am used to the change and depends on what you listen to and what bitrate, but would be better to not have 2 EQ's conflicting/cancelling each other out).

The Premium difference AFAIK is only the is SoundPeats Voice Prompt and it works fine with OK.Hey SoundPeats, then do as you would as if you pressed Google voice button and ask it to do something like Play/Pause/ Next Tract or ask it the time or weather.


----------



## TheWarmInRain

The Melomania Touch arrived so I try them and this is my opinion. As an music producer, I am very critical how something sounds and I assure you that Melomania Touch are one step in front of musicality in wireless earbuds you can buy for the price and even compare to really expensive earbuds and in-ear or over-ear headphones. They sound better than my studio professional Sennheiser studio on-ear headphones in price range around 200 euros.

Sound is dynamic that you get tingles, incredible musical, separation of the instruments and stereo field is amazing. Every instrument has its own space and you can hear so much details. This kind of depth and warmth I have with my ONKYO A-9010 amplifier connected with my Pro On-Ear Studio headphones. Great work Cambridge Audio! Works excellent with type of music like The Weeknd , Dua Lipa, and also with different styles like R&B, Pop, Dance, EDM, Rock, Jazz, and almost everything you throw at.

I need to mention that you will fall in love from the music and a High Performance mode, a hi-fi grade amplification technology, which is derived from their CX amplifiers that gives great dynamic and harmonic warmth to any sound. All frequencies are clear to hear, neutral balanced profile is great but also exposing a little bit of low mid-range, mid-range and high frequencies without adding the lowest frequency works very well. There is no strain on your ear when listening longer time because how harsh frequencies are managed. High frequency has perfect analog sound, very lush, no harshness.

It is very important to find your size of silicon tips as this can better lock into your ear and reproduce better listening. Also check video from Cambridge Audio website how to put correctly into your ear canal because just a small micro rotation can improve the overall listening, I got best listening experience when I completely rotated ear fin forwards to lock in the ear shape.

I didn't have any problems with connection after I first upgraded them on a new firmware. I recommend that you first charge them to full and immediately after update the latest firmware. My Pixel 4A didn’t have any problems to automatically connect them individually.

Every time I take them out of a box they turn on and they automatically connect with my Pixel 4A. I use aptX codec as I disabled AAC as I getting less latency. It there is any issues I suggest to reset them by putting earbuds into box and touch them both and hold for 20 sec.

Their App is very useful and you can play with transparency mode, equalizer, and find location of your earbuds. Transparency mode works well when you don’t want to take earbuds off and you want to listen surroundings.

Touch controls work great, as I didn’t have problems when I am putting them into ear. I was holding them on the side. You can also torn off these controls in the app, but I keep them on. Passive noise cancellation is excellent and I didn’t hear too much noise outside. Voice call is great as my calling person told me she hears me clear and loud.

Life of battery is excellent, it depends what mode you are using, on High Performance mode I managed to get more than 7 hours on one charge with aptX and charging case has 5 times that amount. On Low Power mode battery lasted around 9 hours, but I prefer High Performance mode.

Charging case is small enough for putting in a pocket and really looks beautiful. Earbuds have that shining gloss finish and they look really cool.

Highly recommend them.


----------



## cresny

erockg said:


> Had a wild hair and picked up the Devialet Gemini.  Zero issues so far outside of that it took me three tried to update the right earbud but it did work.  I must say, the sound is just sick.  Wide soundstage and a more lively than my MTW2's.  Bass hits hard.  Still having issues with finding the right earbud tips.  Case isn't as large as I thought it would be.  No volume controls.  Really hope they add them with a firmware update.  ANC is very very good.  Up there with the Sennies as long as you have a great seal.


Maybe it's just me but I found that seal is much less important with the Geminis compared to almost any other buds. First, I don't think the fit is meant to go deep. When these are fully inserted they feel like most other buds do when they are loose. Second, they still manage to sound pretty good even when they are actually loose, and I'm wondering how much the touted Ear Active Matching is a thing here. OTOH these are not supposed to be vertical but sort of nested at an angle, so maybe I'm just genetically lucky with my antihelical fold


----------



## erockg

cresny said:


> Maybe it's just me but I found that seal is much less important with the Geminis compared to almost any other buds. First, I don't think the fit is meant to go deep. When these are fully inserted they feel like most other buds do when they are loose. Second, they still manage to sound pretty good even when they are actually loose, and I'm wondering how much the touted Ear Active Matching is a thing here. OTOH these are not supposed to be vertical but sort of nested at an angle, so maybe I'm just genetically lucky with my antihelical fold


I agree.  The tips are meant to be shallow.  I get the best sound with the stock tips.  My only issue is that sometimes the feel like they’re going to fall out.  That said, maybe the tips need breaking in a bit so they hold better.  Really loving them so far and have zero issues.


----------



## Enn Jott (Jan 18, 2021)

Before sending the CA MTs back I toyed with the (pretty good) in app EQ and liked what i heard. Taming the bass gave room for literally everything else. Enough to be somethat happy with them, apart from the sometimes wayward pairing. Given i'd only paid about 120€ i kept thinking about keeping them. So i asked about the microphone issue that was mentioned by me and others (from avforums) ...









Unfortunately it seems this cannot be solved. I was in a dead silent room for a zoom call and people thought I'd turned my mic off, that's how silent i was. Calling somehow seems to work slightly better, but far from good. While sound is my main priority i still want in ears that work according to their specs. CAs answer was the nail to the coffin, at least for me ...





I'm kind of and yet not really surprised that most people don't really care, but yeah, they do sound good and are comfortable given their price tag. CAs customer service was helpful and very friendly. That being said i'm not really surprised the MTs are not available on amazon (germany, where i bought them) atm.

Now eying the galaxy buds pro but not really sure yet (bixby, eq only presets and some other things) ...


----------



## cresny

erockg said:


> I agree.  The tips are meant to be shallow.  I get the best sound with the stock tips.  My only issue is that sometimes the feel like they’re going to fall out.  That said, maybe the tips need breaking in a bit so they hold better.  Really loving them so far and have zero issues.


Glad you're having zero issues. Same for me other than that I have to double open-close the lid whenever I am done listening and check my phone to see that Bluetooth has been disengaged, or I get a battery drain. A fix for that and volume controls are tops on my wish list for firmware updates.


----------



## CocaCola15 (Jan 18, 2021)

TheWarmInRain said:


> The Melomania Touch arrived so I try them and this is my opinion. As an music producer, I am very critical how something sounds and I assure you that Melomania Touch are one step in front of musicality in wireless earbuds you can buy for the price and even compare to really expensive earbuds and in-ear or over-ear headphones. They sound better than my studio professional Sennheiser studio on-ear headphones in price range around 200 euros.
> 
> Sound is dynamic that you get tingles, incredible musical, separation of the instruments and stereo field is amazing. Every instrument has its own space and you can hear so much details. This kind of depth and warmth I have with my ONKYO A-9010 amplifier connected with my Pro On-Ear Studio headphones. Great work Cambridge Audio! Works excellent with type of music like The Weeknd , Dua Lipa, and also with different styles like R&B, Pop, Dance, EDM, Rock, Jazz, and almost everything you throw at.
> 
> ...


Funny, but today I decided to give them a very long listening session, for the first time since I got them. I have to say you nailed it. At first, I had some of the connection issues (not staying connected, but getting both R and L working easily with my iPhone 8+). I figured it out, I press them into the case first, then insert the left bud (connecting voice comes on) and then the right one; it seems I need to press it a second to turn it on. So that many not be perfect, but it works 10 out of 10 times.

When using them not a single disconnect so far. And the sound is fantastic (as noted above), but it also does require the rudimentary proper tip size and insertion position (I do not use the stability wings, no need). They do in fact sound better than any of the TW BT in-ears I have owned and returned or sold, and that includes most, not all, but most of the name brands hereabouts.

Finally, I do not use the app. No need for it really. I use my onboard Kaiser Audio EQ to fine tune them just a tad.

I did finally use them for a call this morning, to my wife as we were both out of the house. Afterwards, I asked if she had any issues hearing me, etc. She said no, sounded like a typical iPhone call. So there's that. But calls are not my main reason for  BT TW in-ears, sound quality is.


----------



## Canabuc

So far my Jabra 85t have very nice musical sound. Whole I enjoyed the Sony's there was something that felt a bit artificial in the tonality. More electronic.

So now down to the Jabra 85t but of course I'm a suck and when Crinacle raved about the Samsung's new offering and again them hitting my list of features from IP rating tunable sound ANC Qi charging and great sound I had to order.

Will likely come down to one or the other but will be hard to beat the Jabra as a compete package


----------



## Enn Jott

CocaCola15 said:


> I did finally use them for a call this morning, to my wife as we were both out of the house. Afterwards, I asked if she had any issues hearing me, etc. She said no, sounded like a typical iPhone call. So there's that. But calls are not my main reason for BT TW in-ears, sound quality is.



Maybe mine and obviously quite and number of others could be not working properly. Or a different perception of call quality. Or parts of ears covering mics. Who knows ...


----------



## X-Nemesis

I asked earlier about tips for my earfun pros that would prevent them from falling out.  I was recommended the Xelastics, but those are $64 plus $20 shipping from Amazon.ca
Any alternatives that don't cost a kidney?


----------



## clerkpalmer

erockg said:


> I agree.  The tips are meant to be shallow.  I get the best sound with the stock tips.  My only issue is that sometimes the feel like they’re going to fall out.  That said, maybe the tips need breaking in a bit so they hold better.  Really loving them so far and have zero issues.


Mine starting having a battery drain issue in the case. Specifically the R earbud is always dead. Any know fix? This is incredibly annoying and likely will result in a return.


----------



## tiagopinto (Jan 18, 2021)

TheWarmInRain said:


> The Melomania Touch arrived so I try them and this is my opinion. As an music producer, I am very critical how something sounds and I assure you that Melomania Touch are one step in front of musicality in wireless earbuds you can buy for the price and even compare to really expensive earbuds and in-ear or over-ear headphones. They sound better than my studio professional Sennheiser studio on-ear headphones in price range around 200 euros.
> 
> Sound is dynamic that you get tingles, incredible musical, separation of the instruments and stereo field is amazing. Every instrument has its own space and you can hear so much details. This kind of depth and warmth I have with my ONKYO A-9010 amplifier connected with my Pro On-Ear Studio headphones. Great work Cambridge Audio! Works excellent with type of music like The Weeknd , Dua Lipa, and also with different styles like R&B, Pop, Dance, EDM, Rock, Jazz, and almost everything you throw at.
> 
> ...



Thanks. Exactly my thoughts. Sometimes they do fail connection on one of the buds but putting them back in the case, waiting for the “three time red blinking/charging lights” and the removing then one by one, they always blink white, at the same time announcing the connections and... they reconnect. Even with this “minor” gripe, comfort is good, touch controls work, transparency mode works, the case could be a little bit sturdier but is good, battery is great, the app is good (although I never use EQ). Had they a spotless connection, ANC and Qi charging and they could be closer to perfect. The good much outweighs the faults. Glad someone’s also enjoying their great sound.


----------



## DigDub

Caipirina said:


> I am exploring mine more and learn Chinese along the way. Tried to get the iOS app, but the iTunes Store would not let me change country unless I have a valid payment method there. Bummer. And then the right bud starts talking to me ... I keep getting a message precisely every 5 minutes... I googled if it might be ‘recharge’ ..  although, the buds show 100% ... so, anyone any clue what (and I apologize for my phonetic transcription) “*chin chon bien*” could mean?


I think it's saying "chin chon dian". Which means please charge the battery.


----------



## erockg (Jan 18, 2021)

clerkpalmer said:


> Mine starting having a battery drain issue in the case. Specifically the R earbud is always dead. Any know fix? This is incredibly annoying and likely will result in a return.


I did notice mine didn't seat properly and were connected to my phone.  Adjusted them and seems to be fine now.  But I'll keep an eye on that.  Thanks for the heads up.


----------



## erockg

erockg said:


> I did notice mine didn't seat properly and were connected to my phone.  Adjusted them and seems to be fine now.  But I'll keep an eye on that.  Thanks for the heads up.


Edit: Spoke too soon.  Mine were in the case for half the day and the left earbud  was charged but the right bud was at 6%.


----------



## webvan

Interesting posts bout the  Melomania Touch, glad to see they moved on from the horrible form factor of their previous model ! Pretty good fit then ? No having to mess around to get a seal ? Has anyone compared their SQ to the L2Ps ?

I've decided to send back the 75t as they are redundant with my current TWS stable (EchoBuds, L2Ps, SiFi II and X12) with some weaknesses like an average ANC, poor ambient (worse than on the 65t where it was really good), button settings getting lost and some strengths like the fit, the sturdy connection and the small case.


----------



## cresny

erockg said:


> Edit: Spoke too soon.  Mine were in the case for half the day and the left earbud  was charged but the right bud was at 6%.


The pins have nothing to do with the drain. It seems to me it's all software, a bug in the Gemini Right/Left split brain communication (yes a brain drain). It seems the Right and Left are always somehow seeking each other. On my phone, I connect with the Right and it communicates with the Left, but on my macbook I connect and disconnect with the Left. On both devices, almost always whenever I disconnect, the other (R/L) will pop in a few seconds later and I have to do a secondary as shutdown, via menu on the Mac, and what works for me on the phone is shutting the case, waiting a couple seconds until it reconnects on its own with the case closed (!), then open/shut again will make it really disconnect (bluetooth shows no activity). 

Also, never connect or disconnect the "Gemini" bluetooth entry; always either use Right or Left.

They called these Gemini I guess because they are twins that are supposed to constantly work together, not master slave. I've noticed other things where sound will sometimes shift right and left as if it's they're trying to compensate for each other. A couple of times in a conference call it had a participant's voice shifting all around my head, like an old Pink Floyd record. This sort of thing rarely happens, but it seems to be only with voice and never with music.

TLDR; I'm sure this stuff is firmware fixable. In the meantime just be watchful when you shut down.


----------



## erockg

cresny said:


> The pins have nothing to do with the drain. It seems to me it's all software, a bug in the Gemini Right/Left split brain communication (yes a brain drain). It seems the Right and Left are always somehow seeking each other. On my phone, I connect with the Right and it communicates with the Left, but on my macbook I connect and disconnect with the Left. On both devices, almost always whenever I disconnect, the other (R/L) will pop in a few seconds later and I have to do a secondary as shutdown, via menu on the Mac, and what works for me on the phone is shutting the case, waiting a couple seconds until it reconnects on its own with the case closed (!), then open/shut again will make it really disconnect (bluetooth shows no activity).
> 
> Also, never connect or disconnect the "Gemini" bluetooth entry; always either use Right or Left.
> 
> ...


You're 100% correct.  As I typed my last update yesterday here, I noticed as I used my buds, the battery percentage for the right bud in the app was actually going UP.

I've also noticed the sound shift as they sync.  No particular instance, but did notice it a few times so far.  

I agree, definitely a firmware issue.  I've seen this on other earbuds ie, the incorrect battery display.  For me, this seems to all be a non-issue.  Fingers crossed!


----------



## FYLegend

Any way to shrink the Earfun Free Pro ear hooks (like microwaving them or something)? Mine are starting to loosen up.

The fit on these is really weird, I find that if they're too deep in my ears, the ANC is actually worse than if I just gently settle them outside my ears.


----------



## dj24

Canabuc said:


> So far my Jabra 85t have very nice musical sound. Whole I enjoyed the Sony's there was something that felt a bit artificial in the tonality. More electronic.
> 
> So now down to the Jabra 85t but of course I'm a suck and when Crinacle raved about the Samsung's new offering and again them hitting my list of features from IP rating tunable sound ANC Qi charging and great sound I had to order.
> 
> Will likely come down to one or the other but will be hard to beat the Jabra as a compete package



Could you take the time to compare them and see which one of the two does better with call quality?  I'm looking for the best one to use for work VOIP calls so background noise (kids, tv) suppression and crystal clear sounding voice will decide which one of the two I'll end up purchasing.  Thanks!


----------



## SilverEars (Jan 19, 2021)

I got the Galaxy Buds Pro and Samsung really pisses me off.  I think this iem has good potential, and it seem sound good, but I can't get a good fit due to them trying to copy Apple and going proprietary tips.  Stupid, stupid idea.  I don't know why Samsung tries to copy the most annoying things from Apple.  Like getting rid of headphone jack and leaving out power adapters and now they gimp the fit of the iem and also the after market tips usability.  Jesus Christ!  Do they know how to stay original?

I know I should be getting more bass out of these, and I feel like I would actually like these the best if I can get bigger size tips (L is smaller than L APP tips!) and the nozzle was extended longer.  This is so disappointing.  The tips are not large enough and it effects noise isolation and ANC for highs as well.

It seems to sound better (sound stage and imaging seems to be better than previous models I've tried, and sounding more refined and cleaner), but I can't the best out of them.  So annoying.  Samsung does the dumbest things sometimes.

If you go large tips, I suggest waiting until larger after market tips comes out.  So annoying.


----------



## SilverEars (Jan 19, 2021)

I decided to improvise, and tried to fit in various tips.  My old Kanas Pro tips actually fit, and the tips sticks out forward giving me the fit that I need.  If what I'm hearing with such fit is what they intended, I do like these compared to a lot of TWS I've tried.  The bass is much better than previous Samsung and better than other TWS I've tried besides the QC earbuds.  Compared to QC earbuds, the bass on these are tighter and faster.  The sound stage large and to my liking as well.  The highs are crisp like the NC400, but these just seem to sound cleaner than previous Samsung/Harman/AKG whatever have you.

To me, these remind me of Drop JVC FDX1 in wireless form.  Very fast with electronic, and very nice with electronic tracks. I do really like the bass! This is another doing bass well out of TWS like the QC earbuds.  It seems like sound is improving with TWS.  Bass certainly is, which I didn't think would happen.

Only thing I'm not too fond of is the vocals, it's to forward and too textury due to the treble lift. Brings out some sibilance. Basically, it's not smooth vocals.  Other than that, it has high clarity, and crispy for those that that type of response.

I think the filling of the 200hz area made sense compared to cut in the Harman (seems agreeable to my ears), but I think that treble up top should be tamed slightly.


----------



## Canabuc

dj24 said:


> Could you take the time to compare them and see which one of the two does better with call quality?  I'm looking for the best one to use for work VOIP calls so background noise (kids, tv) suppression and crystal clear sounding voice will decide which one of the two I'll end up purchasing.  Thanks!


Samsung? Or Sony?just sent the Sony's back.
Jabra call quality is good but haven't tested in noisy environments.
Waiting on the Samsungs.
With stored closed due to pandemic everything depends on shipping.


----------



## Canabuc

SilverEars said:


> I got the Galaxy Buds Pro and Samsung really pisses me off.  I think this iem has good potential, and it seem sound good, but I can't get a good fit due to them trying to copy Apple and going proprietary tips.  Stupid, stupid idea.  I don't know why Samsung tries to copy the most annoying things from Apple.  Like getting rid of headphone jack and leaving out power adapters and now they gimp the fit of the iem and also the after market tips usability.  Jesus Christ!  Do they know how to stay original?
> 
> I know I should be getting more bass out of these, and I feel like I would actually like these the best if I can get bigger size tips (L is smaller than L APP tips!) and the nozzle was extended longer.  This is so disappointing.  The tips are not large enough and it effects noise isolation and ANC for highs as well.
> 
> ...


Try other tips. Even round tips can be fit on them. At least they could on the Jabrawhich are oval


----------



## Canabuc

SilverEars said:


> I decided to improvise, and tried to fit in various tips.  My old Kanas Pro tips actually fit, and the tips sticks out forward giving me the fit that I need.  If what I'm hearing with such fit is what they intended, I do like these compared to a lot of TWS I've tried.  The bass is much better than previous Samsung and better than other TWS I've tried besides the QC earbuds.  Compared to QC earbuds, the bass on these are tighter and faster.  The sound stage large and to my liking as well.  The highs are crisp like the NC400, but these just seem to sound cleaner than previous Samsung/Harman/AKG whatever have you.
> 
> To me, these remind me of Drop JVC FDX1 in wireless form.  Very fast with electronic, and very nice with electronic tracks. I do really like the bass! This is another doing bass well out of TWS like the QC earbuds.  It seems like sound is improving with TWS.  Bass certainly is, which I didn't think would happen.
> 
> ...


Forget where bit saw all the frequency response graphs for the different EQ presets. Was either on Crinacle website or a Korean one. Seems that I believe the soft or the dynamic reduce that treble peak a bit. Might be worth a try.


----------



## SilverEars (Jan 19, 2021)

Canabuc said:


> Forget where bit saw all the frequency response graphs for the different EQ presets. Was either on Crinacle website or a Korean one. Seems that I believe the soft or the dynamic reduce that treble peak a bit. Might be worth a try.


You mean this?  I tried soft and it does tame the treble. If you look below, I have no idea why the lower-mids gets lifted.  I can hear that warmth, I dislike as it warms the bass.  Normal has the right bass to my ears, but the treble is still lifted slighty for my taste.  I'm starting to notice that dip in the mids.  I can hear less full-ness in that area.  It's like less full there and then a rise, and doesn't feel fully distributed for vocals.

For soft, they should have just shaved off the treble and left the normal response of the bass.  I got to say ANC is pretty lousy.


----------



## Canabuc

SilverEars said:


> You mean this?  I tried soft and it does tame the treble. If you look below, I have no idea why the lower-mids gets lifted.  I can hear that warmth, I dislike as it warms the bass.  Normal has the right bass to my ears, but the treble is still lifted slighty for my taste.  I'm starting to notice that dip in the mids.  I can hear less full-ness in that area.  It's like less full there and then a rise, and doesn't feel fully distributed for vocals.
> 
> For soft, they should have just shaved off the treble and left the normal response of the bass.  I got to say ANC is pretty lousy.


Yes that one. Looking at it it seems dynamic which is the olive one shaved that treble peak a bit without adding too much bass. Our the clear nude which knocks the bass a bit. Maybe comply tips?


----------



## SilverEars (Jan 19, 2021)

Canabuc said:


> Yes that one. Looking at it it seems dynamic which is the olive one shaved that treble peak a bit without adding too much bass. Our the clear nude which knocks the bass a bit. Maybe comply tips?


Dynamic actually does sound like Crin's measurements, tilts slightly warmer, but keeps the sibilant area at the same level.  Kinda worse than normal IMO.  I think normal is the best as thy failed to tame the treble at a good level  and kept a good warmth balance with any of their presets.  Perhaps the shallow insertion causes somewhat of a peak in the treble for some of us.

Not sure if the bass was intended like I hear out of Kanas Pro eartips, in which normal level bass sound good to me.  This could just be tip dependent, but none of the early Samsung I liked the bass even with tips swapping.  Pretty underwhelmed with bass with those.


----------



## DRuM (Jan 19, 2021)

Hi guys. Can any of you kindly recommend me buds around £40 to £50? My mate has been telling me how good the Boltune BT-BH024 is. Are they the best sound quality for their price or is there better? I'd like some that stay secure in the ears while jogging, preferably with warmth close to my wired ibasso ITO1 sound rather than bright and fatiguing (like my TFZ Exclusive 3), volume control and track skip, and either touch, or if they're buttons, a nice easy press without making the ear feel uncomfortable.  Thanks.


----------



## dj24

Canabuc said:


> Samsung? Or Sony?just sent the Sony's back.
> Jabra call quality is good but haven't tested in noisy environments.
> Waiting on the Samsungs.
> With stored closed due to pandemic everything depends on shipping.


 
Yup.  Samsung Pro vs. Jabra Elite 85t.  Thanks!


----------



## Canabuc

dj24 said:


> Yup.  Samsung Pro vs. Jabra Elite 85t.  Thanks!


Will do when they come in


----------



## FYLegend

SilverEars said:


> Dynamic actually does sound like Crin's measurements, tilts slightly warmer, but keeps the sibilant area at the same level.  Kinda worse than normal IMO.  I think normal is the best as thy failed to tame the treble at a good level  and kept a good warmth balance with any of their presets.  Perhaps the shallow insertion causes somewhat of a peak in the treble for some of us.
> 
> Not sure if the bass was intended like I hear out of Kanas Pro eartips, in which normal level bass sound good to me.  This could just be tip dependent, but none of the early Samsung I liked the bass even with tips swapping.  Pretty underwhelmed with bass with those.


Have you tried them on Windows 10 yet to see how's the SBC quality?


----------



## webvan

Was getting a strange muffled sound in the left ear on my Bomaker SiFi II even after cleaning the small membranes protecting the drivers from little earwax debris. So I removed the membranes and...fixed. Now of course the drivers are no longer protected so that's not ideal. Maybe I'll try to let them soak to see if it fixes the problem. Come to think of it I'd had to do the same thing with the SiFi I that I later gave away due to poor fit in my ears (kept popping out) but apparently they still work fine.


----------



## Eyalpaz

Melomania touch users:
AAC or APTX? 
Sound wise and connectivity wise. 
I am with a galaxy s10 phone and automatically got APTX all the time. Now changed to AAC, and to me it sound even better, also feel connectivity is faster. Opinions?


----------



## bronco1015

SilverEars said:


> I got the Galaxy Buds Pro and Samsung really pisses me off.  I think this iem has good potential, and it seem sound good, but I can't get a good fit due to them trying to copy Apple and going proprietary tips.  Stupid, stupid idea.  I don't know why Samsung tries to copy the most annoying things from Apple.  Like getting rid of headphone jack and leaving out power adapters and now they gimp the fit of the iem and also the after market tips usability.  Jesus Christ!  Do they know how to stay original?
> 
> I know I should be getting more bass out of these, and I feel like I would actually like these the best if I can get bigger size tips (L is smaller than L APP tips!) and the nozzle was extended longer.  This is so disappointing.  The tips are not large enough and it effects noise isolation and ANC for highs as well.
> 
> ...


Samsung is the worst. I get anoyed with severl other OEM's, my favorite LG for coppying the stupid airpod like stem design for their Tone earbuds among other things. But Samsung deciding not to include APTX, okay fine i get not wanting to pay for licensing when you have a proprietary codec, but then causing bitpool on SBC, and AAC being what it is on android, not consistent that is,...I don't know. I just hate on principal when companies purposely hamstring a product. I don't care who makes it. Whatever it is.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

So I just discovered someone did a preset aiming at the Harman curve specifically for the Jaybird Vista (it's in the Jaybird app). No joke, I am pretty damn impressed with the sound of these now. Before they were just my "big bass hip hop gym headphones" but now they actually sound pretty solid for general enjoyment.


----------



## SilverEars

Update on Samsung Galaxy Buds Pro:

I'm getting fatigued after listening to them due to the slight treble emphasis.  Not as bad a M&D or MTW series, but I can't listen to these long thinking I maybe causing hearing damage with such response. This doesn't motivate me to listen to them anymore. I really do like the crispness and cleaniness of the response with it's tight responsive bass with good quantity.  I hope to get the right target response one day with good bass and just the right amount of highs, but with high clarity as well.


----------



## Canabuc

SilverEars said:


> Update on Samsung Galaxy Buds Pro:
> 
> I'm getting fatigued after listening to them due to the slight treble emphasis.  Not as bad a M&D or MTW series, but I can't listen to these long thinking I maybe causing hearing damage with such response. This doesn't motivate me to listen to them anymore. I really do like the crispness and cleaniness of the response with it's tight responsive bass with good quantity.  I hope to get the right target response one day with good bass and just the right amount of highs, but with high clarity as well.


So what you are saying is that they sound better to you then 2 of the top regarded earbud for sound and they are still not good enough.
Maybe wavelet can help time down the treble or try comply tips.

Crinacle and others have regarded the sound as very good and the Trevor as being crisp but not fatiguing.


----------



## vurtomatic

Has anyone compared the FIIL T1 Pro with the T1 X? Wondering if it'll be a good upgrade. Or is there something else to try?


----------



## SilverGrey

DRuM said:


> Hi guys. Can any of you kindly recommend me buds around £40 to £50? My mate has been telling me how good the Boltune BT-BH024 is. Are they the best sound quality for their price or is there better? I'd like some that stay secure in the ears while jogging, preferably with warmth close to my wired ibasso ITO1 sound rather than bright and fatiguing (like my TFZ Exclusive 3), volume control and track skip, and either touch, or if they're buttons, a nice easy press without making the ear feel uncomfortable.  Thanks.



Mpow M30 Plus are a really good buy. I have headphones and earbuds costing hundreds and the M30s are just as good. 100 hours of battery life is also very useful.


----------



## killrforehand

Pete7874 said:


> Doing some quick listening comparison between L2P and L2, using my Shanling M3s as source, they sound very similar except for treble.  Treble on L2P is more pronounced to the point where it sounds overdone and shrill and ear piercing on some recordings such as Dido - Take You Home or Indila - Derniere Danse, and even using Treble Reducer EQ setting does not help with this.  Granted, it is possible these are just overproduced recordings  where L2P uncovers their flaws, but I personally prefer how these tracks sound on L2 instead.
> 
> Need to spend more time with both L2 and L2P before I make up my mind.
> 
> If anyone wants to suggest any particular test tracks with 'challenging' treble that some earphones struggle with, I am all ears (heh).



I just got the L2P and I had this exact problem - the treble was so pronounced that it was not even sibilance anymore, it was a shrill that was very uncomfortable to my ear. I had to turn down the volume to protect my ears. I read somewhere that the headphones need to be burned in so I let it sit overnight on low volumes and that has settled the treble down significantly. It's still there under certain EQ settings at high volumes (like Riley Mackin professional EQ), but it's much better now. I don't think this is a problem for a lot of ballads, but a representative example is "Need Your Love" by Gryffin - the vocals distorted significantly before the burn in especially in the chorus.


----------



## DRuM (Jan 20, 2021)

SilverGrey said:


> Mpow M30 Plus are a really good buy. I have headphones and earbuds costing hundreds and the M30s are just as good. 100 hours of battery life is also very useful.



Thanks man.  Slightly cheaper than the Boltunes and I noticed on Amazon there's also an updated M30 for the same price.

Reviewers seem to like the M30.  Apparently a range of 30 feet which is good.  Do you actually get 5 hours playtime from yours? Is the bass punchy, and would you say they're warm sounding buds or bright? Any idea how they compare to the Boltune BH024?

Edit: oops, I just noticed you mentioned the plus version.  I'll go check more reviews of that.


----------



## dweaver

killrforehand said:


> I just got the L2P and I had this exact problem - the treble was so pronounced that it was not even sibilance anymore, it was a shrill that was very uncomfortable to my ear. I had to turn down the volume to protect my ears. I read somewhere that the headphones need to be burned in so I let it sit overnight on low volumes and that has settled the treble down significantly. It's still there under certain EQ settings at high volumes (like Riley Mackin professional EQ), but it's much better now. I don't think this is a problem for a lot of ballads, but a representative example is "Need Your Love" by Gryffin - the vocals distorted significantly before the burn in especially in the chorus.


I also own and enjoy the L2P but I find the treble every so slightly metallic in nature even though I find the over default signature a bit on the bass oriented side. It did get better over time but still persists. In comparison my AZ70 is much brighter sounding and as some members have noted not as bass enhanced for everyones taste, yet even with the brightness I never find myself wishing that shrill sound would go away...

The L2P kind of remind me of some of the early Sony XBA series earphones in regards to the treble.


----------



## HerrXRDS

SilverEars said:


> Update on Samsung Galaxy Buds Pro:
> 
> I'm getting fatigued after listening to them due to the slight treble emphasis.  Not as bad a M&D or MTW series, but I can't listen to these long thinking I maybe causing hearing damage with such response. This doesn't motivate me to listen to them anymore. I really do like the crispness and cleaniness of the response with it's tight responsive bass with good quantity.  I hope to get the right target response one day with good bass and just the right amount of highs, but with high clarity as well.



This is my experience too. After a few days of owning them I got to the point I now dread having to listen to any song with female vocals on it, the sibilance is just so grating. A shame cause everything else is almost perfect, they fit great, they don't sound congested as other TWS I've tried, bass, details and overall sound is top notch except for that spike that creates sibilance. I have many other sets that are sibilant and I enjoy, something like DT990 doesn't bother me, but there is something about these, maybe cause it is the one issue holding them back from being the perfect TWS set and it pisses me off. Anyway, I will return these.


----------



## SilverEars (Jan 20, 2021)

HerrXRDS said:


> This is my experience too. After a few days of owning them I got to the point I now dread having to listen to any song with female vocals on it, the sibilance is just so grating. A shame cause everything else is almost perfect, they fit great, they don't sound congested as other TWS I've tried, bass, details and overall sound is top notch except for that spike that creates sibilance. I have many other sets that are sibilant and I enjoy, something like DT990 doesn't bother me, but there is something about these, maybe cause it is the one issue holding them back from being the perfect TWS set and it pisses me off. Anyway, I will return these.


Exactamundo as quoted by the ninja turtles.  I too like everything about the sound besides the sibilance.  I hate the tips and ANC is underwhelming.  It's not as practical as APP.

How ironic that they try to be like Apple, and that backfires.


----------



## DigDub (Jan 20, 2021)

vurtomatic said:


> Has anyone compared the FIIL T1 Pro with the T1 X? Wondering if it'll be a good upgrade. Or is there something else to try?


T1 pro has far better sound than the t1x. If you don't need the ANC, t1 lite is better than t1x but behind t1 pro in terms of sound quality.


----------



## mbk

killrforehand said:


> I just got the L2P and I had this exact problem - the treble was so pronounced that it was not even sibilance anymore, it was a shrill that was very uncomfortable to my ear. I had to turn down the volume to protect my ears. I read somewhere that the headphones need to be burned in so I let it sit overnight on low volumes and that has settled the treble down significantly. It's still there under certain EQ settings at high volumes (like Riley Mackin professional EQ), but it's much better now. I don't think this is a problem for a lot of ballads, but a representative example is "Need Your Love" by Gryffin - the vocals distorted significantly before the burn in especially in the chorus.



I really love the bass impact of the L2P. It’s awesome. But the treble is just so sibilant and metallic and harsh that I can’t listen to them anymore. Even something as simple as a tambourine can be fatiguing on the L2P. I didn’t do a formal burn-in but after a couple of weeks i never saw an improvement.

I moved on to the Grado GT220 and I’m happy with them so far. No fatigue.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

mbk said:


> I really love the bass impact of the L2P. It’s awesome. But the treble is just so sibilant and metallic and harsh that I can’t listen to them anymore. Even something as simple as a tambourine can be fatiguing on the L2P. I didn’t do a formal burn-in but after a couple of weeks i never saw an improvement.
> 
> I moved on to the Grado GT220 and I’m happy with them so far. No fatigue.



I'm exceptionally curious about the Grado, chiefly because they supposedly aren't the standard Grado "treble above all" type affair.


----------



## mbk

SomeGuyDude said:


> I'm exceptionally curious about the Grado, chiefly because they supposedly aren't the standard Grado "treble above all" type affair.



Correct. If you’re looking for the typical Grado sound signature you won’t find it in the GT220. The GT220 has significantly more bass and, obviously, as an in-ear it doesn’t have the open sound of a full-size Grado.

That being said, it’s really great. I also have the AirPods Pro and it blows them away. Way more extension in the bass and treble and far better tonality.

I’m surprised more people on here haven’t tried them. I suppose it’s a steep price for TWS that don’t have an app, ANC, or a transparent mode.... but the sound is very good and I personally don’t need any of those things. In terms of isolation, the Grado sits fairly deep in the ear canal and so isolation is very good without ANC.


----------



## killrforehand

mbk said:


> Correct. If you’re looking for the typical Grado sound signature you won’t find it in the GT220. The GT220 has significantly more bass and, obviously, as an in-ear it doesn’t have the open sound of a full-size Grado.
> 
> That being said, it’s really great. I also have the AirPods Pro and it blows them away. Way more extension in the bass and treble and far better tonality.
> 
> I’m surprised more people on here haven’t tried them. I suppose it’s a steep price for TWS that don’t have an app, ANC, or a transparent mode.... but the sound is very good and I personally don’t need any of those things. In terms of isolation, the Grado sits fairly deep in the ear canal and so isolation is very good without ANC.


The Grado's price is comparable to the Sennheiser MTW2 - have you had the chance to listen to both and compare?


----------



## mbk

killrforehand said:


> The Grado's price is comparable to the Sennheiser MTW2 - have you had the chance to listen to both and compare?



Sorry, no. Just the APP and L2Ps to compare. I have an old pair of UE custom corded IEMs that I was using until recently when I decided that wires weren’t worth the hassle anymore.


----------



## Tommy C

Grado looks interesting but the price tag is too high if they don’t offer a bunch of features like the Jabra, Senn, Sony and the rest. This is not 2017 when companies could get by with TWS that sounded good but no app or additional features.


----------



## Canabuc

My galaxy buds pro arriving today!
A free here have said they sound great but that the treble can be harsh. Will be curious to see if I have the same opinion.

Crinacle gave these his best rating for a TWS. The buds+ are reported to have significantly harsher highs and those were still not too bad for me. 

My use case may be different but I want 4 things from a pair of truly wireless earbuds.

1. Comfort and fit. If the buds can't stay in my ears securely or comfortably during the activities I am using them for, there is no point for them.

2. Sound quality. They need to sound above a certain baseline. I want my music to sound good with clear highs good mids and sufficient bass that has energy in the music. 
3. Connectivity. If they keep breaking up or getting static or losing connection then they aren't for me.

4. Feature set. At the very least I want an ambient mode, volume and track control on the buds. I prefer to have ANC even if not class leading so that my listening enchantment won't have distracting noise.

5. Usability in many different settings. Thus an IP rating that would allow use for working out or in places that they might get wet as in the rain, sweat....This also means they need to get loud enough to use
where there might be a lot of noise that even ANC can't block.

6. Battery life and case size. Since the goal of these are to be a mobile form. If battery too short or case too big then advantages of wirefree design are not beneficial.


So with that being said I am still trying to find that perfect TWS bud.

Sony XM3- Case size,no IP rating,insecure fit means despite great sound they aren't for me. Might as well use on or over ear headphones.

Liberty 2 Pro- Close once EQ'd 
but no ambient mode or ANC.

Technics AZ70W- Too bulky case with some battery drain issies,and slightly with buds. Not secure enough while working out. Volume not loud enough and bass is a bit lacking. So close but a bit weak in a few caregories.

Galaxy buds +- Close. Great size comfort case and controls. No ANC.
Bass ok but not best and highs a bit harsh. If sounded a bit better would be the one especially if had ANC.

Jabra Active 75t- case,  comfort volume so good. ANC sufficient. Sound is good but bass need to be EQ'd down and mids up to sound acceptable. Best in class up rating for supports and water activity.
Also close. If sound was a bit better and Qi charging, would be the winner.

Jabra Elite 85t- So far my top content all around. Very musical sound! One EQ'd in app, great lows without hitting mids. Treble is detailed and not thin like 75t. Only sound complaints is the treble is a bit soft compared to say the XM3 which has a bit more bite. This is a personal thing and maybe those of you finding the new buds pro might prefer the Jabra 85t.
Otherwise has great ANC and ambient modes. Controls everything from the buds. Multi pairing which is unique among most earbuds. Great case and size. Ipx4 so can use with working out without worry.
First workout with it was good but not great. Never fell out but due to how they fit they were more noticeable and distracting in my ears than the 75t,buds+ or L2P. Think if I could find a better tip this would be solved.

Galaxy buds Pro- TBD. But if they improve the bass and treble of the+which according to Crinacle they do, these could be the one for sound. They added ANC and improved the mics and ambient from an already good buds+. Battery especially with ANC off is great and 2nd only to buds+but with more charges in the case. Hopefully comfort want sacrificed in the redesign. One negative from reviews for me was the removal of the land feature to ten the scene of the bud for volume control as in the buds+that allows me to get every possible control on the buds like Jabra. Hopefully that can be added as an update if these win it for the other features but certainly not a deal breaker since it has voice activated bixby which can perform the tasks of turning on ambient mode or ANC without pulling the phone out. It also has an intriguing feature where if ANC is on and you start to talk to someone it automatically recognizes you and lowers music and puts you into ambient mode without having to press any buttons. Only other headphone I know of with this is the Sony XM3 headphones.

Also if you are a Samsung phone user you get the following address benefits: Samsung scalable codec which can sale up to 24 bit 96k sound which is much improved over standard AAC. Once phone software updated it will have Dolby 360 sound. It can read it you emails and other notifications and messages to you if you want....

Will update you guys with my sound impressions
When they arrive.

Buds I haven't decided to test yet:

Bose- at that size, case, and price would just go for over ear....

MTW2- Most expensive by 100$ over the Jabra or Samsung here in Canada. Case seems a bit big and fabric? Really? Seems to have to reports sound and does not all the other points except maybe a bit bulky like the Technics. Might be last resort.

Cambridge MT- not readily available in Canada and won't consider before a firmware update as there seem to be alot of issues and unknown if fixable.

Devialet Gemini- same as the MT. Except also pricy. 

Liberty Air 2 pro- interesting as great price and apparently sound quality not far off from the L2P. Disappointing controls as can't control volume from the buds. And the stem design in these seem long and awkward. Might be worth a try.

JBL club pro+- might be an option too. Finally available in Canada. Price right around the Jabras and marginally cheaper than the buds pro. Very tunable with apparently very good sound has good case etc. ANC not the best apparently and have heard they aren't most comfortable after a while but everyone ears are different. Interestingly they are also owned by Samsung who own Harman which makes AKG and JBL.

If anyone has any other buds they think are worth trying that might meet all my goals let me know.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

Tommy C said:


> Grado looks interesting but the price tag is too high if they don’t offer a bunch of features like the Jabra, Senn, Sony and the rest. This is not 2017 when companies could get by with TWS that sounded good but no app or additional features.



I disagree there. One of the issues with TWS right now is that most of them care more about the tech and less about the sound. I've owned:

M&D MW07
Senn MTW
Jabra 65T
Jabra 75T
Sony sp700n
B&O e8
Bose Soundsport Free
Jaybird Vista

Currently I keep the Vista above all the others, because since none of them are good "daily driver" replacements for even my cheaper wired IEMs then I'll go with the ones that have the most secure fit in my ears and some bells and whistles. The MW07 did sound amazing, but the 1.5 hour battery life made it a no go. The point is that none of them were good enough to cause me to reach for them rather than even stuff like my chi-fi stuff. If Grado made a set that's actually on par with a $100-150 IEM but is also wireless, then that's a no-brainer, app be damned.

Let's be honest, what does anyone do with the app? EQ? For almost any situation it's just there to make them connect.


----------



## Canabuc

SomeGuyDude said:


> I disagree there. One of the issues with TWS right now is that most of them care more about the tech and less about the sound. I've owned:
> 
> M&D MW07
> Senn MTW
> ...


EQ. Setting features like ANC and ambient button controls firmware updates.....

Grado from what I hear are very overated buds with little functionality. 3 years late.

JBL have a parametric equalizer such that you can probably EQ them close to any sound you like.....


----------



## mbk

Canabuc said:


> EQ. Setting features like ANC and ambient button controls firmware updates.....
> 
> Grado from what I hear are very overated buds with little functionality. 3 years late.
> 
> JBL have a parametric equalizer such that you can probably EQ them close to any sound you like.....



I certainly havent compared enough TWS to claim the Grado is the top, but the reviews I found were almost universally very positive.
They don’t have as much of a V shaped sound to my ears so they didn’t knock my socks off when I first turned them on. But once I got used to the sound (or burned them in?) and compared them to my other TWS and wired headphones, I found them very very good. I’d like to hear the opinion of some of you who have a lot of these TWS to compare with the Grado. Hoping some of you will take a chance on them.


----------



## jant71

I don't hear(or read) the Grado is either overated nor universally positive. Definite unimpressive reviews out there and some good ones and can lead one to believe they need to be fit right to have the optimal sound. FWIR the most positives have come from less experienced where they are not compared to the best but things like the first Hifi-man TWS600 and not many at all vs. the top of the crop for sound. Too little to say I wouldn't be disappointed for $259 vs. my $145 Victor or that the Grado would sound better than the $150 Touch. Might be more interesting if they dropped price Like the Klipsch which have already been 50% on the T5 II, $129 for the Sennheiser CX400BT etc. So not many people in this thread have pulled the trigger.


----------



## Peddler

I thought I would post some short reviews for some of the TWS headphones I have in my collection and report on the pros and cons that each have along with my findings discovered from longer term ownership of these headphones.

Sony WF1000XM3

These are some of the finest active noise cancelling TWS headphones currently on the market in my opinion.  Although many people complain about their size and fit, I personally have found that these headphones fit me perfectly and they're one of the easiest IEM's to actually put in my ears.  I love their sound - both in quality and character.  Battery life is more than good enough for my needs and, although they do have a somewhat large battery case, I don't really have any problems putting them in my pocket. The active noise cancelling is truly superb - not only very effective at getting rid of pretty much all external noise, this is achieved without effecting the sound quality. Although there is a little noise floor when using the active noise cancelling and ambient sound function, it's considerably lower than that found with other ANC earbuds and pretty much completely disappears once your music starts.  To top it off, a function that appears to be unique to Sony's active noise cancelling headphone range, touch and hold to activate instant ambient sound. This is a great feature and one which I wish other headphones had.

Pros
Really nice sound quality, fit, touch controls that work, excellent active noise cancelling that doesn't affect the sound quality and case magnets that almost pull the headphones from your fingers resulting in a perfect connection for charging.

Cons
No APtX, incomplete remote controls (although improved with software update). I have experienced occasional drop-outs when out and about but I tend to only use these at home.

iBasso CF01/IT00/Magaosi K3 Pro Combination

In many ways it’s not fair to include this combination in this because from a sound quality perspective, the combination absolutely beats the rest hands down.  Although the IT00 IEM’s and the CF01 Bluetooth Module were absolutely made for each other, I decided to pair the module with my Magaosi K3 Pro’s - mostly because I like using the IT00’s wired with my Walkman and the Magaosi’s had a dodgy headphone cable which kept coming apart - the CF01 presented an ideal solution - and boy does it sound good.  
Super clear sound (APtX), they go loud, there’s no significant noise floor and, in the case of the Magaosi’s, you’re getting a kinda multiple-driver dynamic/balanced armature TWS solution. The electronics part of this combo appears to be ruler flat - crystal clear amplification and delivery to your favourite IEM's. Both the Magaosi and the IT00's sound superb.

Pros
Excellent sound quality. Excellent volume. Nice thoughtfully designed charging case. Comfortable. Good battery life. 

Cons
Limited remote controls. Difficult to find buttons. 

Apollo Bold

I wasn't initially impressed with these headphones - finding them far too bassy but after using them for a while, they have really started to shine.  Don't get me wrong, they're still rather bassy but thanks to their software update, you can at least change to the Jazz EQ pre-set which takes the edge off. What I really like though is their low-volume performance which is nothing short of staggering in my opinion. Whilst the active noise cancelling works pretty well, the noise floor is a little higher than the Sony's and it does have an effect on the sound character by increasing the bass even more.  The Bold's appear to have a huge frequency range and dynamics - again, this works really well at low levels which make these an ideal bedtime headphone. 

The other thing I really like about these headphones is the fact that you can customise the touch controls. Out of the box these just don't really work when you're in bed because the touch controls are constantly being accidentally triggered - by disabling the single touch and single touch and hold functions, there's no more accidental touches.

Pros
Wide sound - these kinda sound like really big speakers - which is nice. Comfortable, good battery life, complete control over volume as well as functions, very lightweight and they go loud.

Cons
Bass is simply too much at louder volumes. ANC has an effect on sound quality (although it's not too bad all in all). Case feels flimsy.

Apple Airpod

Well, I have to admit it. I do like the Apple Airpods and find that I do like their sound character and quality. I do use foamies with them as I have found that this both improves the bass response and the overall fit.  There's really not much to say about the Airpods -  pretty much everyone has at least some experience with them I suspect. Although I'm happy to accept their limitations, the only think I really don't like about them is that when you fit foamies to them, they tend to lose their touch controls.

Pros
Nice open sound quality. Good stable connection and range. Well made - both the earbuds and the case.  Good overall battery life. Very comfortable.

Cons
Tend to lack bass. Controls effectively disabled when using foamies. Perhaps a little too easy to lose (but that is nitpicking).

Lypertek Tevi

Out of all the TWS headphones I own - the Tevi's are perhaps the most natural sounding and unassuming of the lot. They are perhaps the closest to the sound character of the Ultimate Ears Triple Fi 10. They don't have active noise cancelling or ambient sound mode. They don't use touch controls - just basic touch controls. These are comfortable (with the right tips), go really loud and have an excellent battery life.

Pros
Excellent sound quality. Nice ergonomic case. Excellent battery life. Water resistant enough for them to use used in a shower (not that I have tried). Excellent sound quality and they go loud. Well made - both headphones and case 

Cons
Buttons can be hard to push sometimes. Slippery - somewhat difficult to get out of the case. Can take a while to get a good fit - kinda reminds me of the Etymotics and UE Triple Fi 10 in this as they take a little wriggling around before they sound their best.

Mavin Air-X

This one's an old-timer but it's still an outstanding TWS headphone. Offering a combination of excellent sound quality, excellent signal range, excellent battery life and excellent power output. Similar sound quality to the Tevi's but with perhaps a little more bass. No touch controls but buttons are easy enough to press and you also have full remote controls. Throw in decent water resistance, it's hard to fault these.  Case feels flimsy and uses USB type B.

Pros
Really good sound quality, water resistance, battery life, volume, buttons, full remote.

Cons
Flimsy case. USB B. That's about it.

*To Sum Up*

Interestingly, they all have their good and bad points.  Out of all of them though, I definitely rate the Sony's the highest. They have a unique sound character in my opinion in that they sound like full sized headphones. None of the other IEM’s in my collection do this to the same extent.  I really like the functions and features and use them all the time.

The ibasso CF01/K3 Pro combination offers a definite improvement over the Sony's at the expense of no active noise cancellation. They offer an additional level of sub-bass and slightly higher details in the top end. In all fairness though, the Sony's aren't that far behind - perhaps lacking in the finer details and the sub-bass.  The Sony's are also the easiest to get in my ears and get a good fit first go.  I'm afraid I can't really say this for any of the other IEM's - both wired and wireless, in my collection.

At the end of the day, I'm spoilt for choice.  I also feel that the differences in sound quality between wired and wireless headphones is far narrower now than ever. It's only a matter of time now.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

Canabuc said:


> EQ. Setting features like ANC and ambient button controls firmware updates.....
> 
> Grado from what I hear are very overated buds with little functionality. 3 years late.
> 
> JBL have a parametric equalizer such that you can probably EQ them close to any sound you like.....



My Jaybirds have a robust app and I like puttering with the EQ but I'd rather great sound than tweak crap with an app. ANC on an IEM isn't critical.


----------



## mbk

jant71 said:


> I don't hear(or read) the Grado is either overated nor universally positive. Definite unimpressive reviews out there and some good ones and can lead one to believe they need to be fit right to have the optimal sound. FWIR the most positives have come from less experienced where they are not compared to the best but things like the first Hifi-man TWS600 and not many at all vs. the top of the crop for sound. Too little to say I wouldn't be disappointed for $259 vs. my $145 Victor or that the Grado would sound better than the $150 Touch. Might be more interesting if they dropped price Like the Klipsch which have already been 50% on the T5 II, $129 for the Sennheiser CX400BT etc. So not many people in this thread have pulled the trigger.



These were the reviews that swayed me to give the Grado a shot. I tend to ignore the tech website reviews and lean towards more audio-oriented sites. These are all basically on the first two pages of a Google search so nothing groundbreaking.

https://www.whathifi.com/us/reviews/grado-gt220
https://headfonics.com/grado-gt220-review/
https://majorhifi.com/an-audiophiles-true-wireless-grado-gt220-review/
https://hifitrends.com/2020/11/13/g...lling-bluetooth-earbuds-have-brilliant-sound/
https://audio-head.com/review-grado-gt220/
https://www.headfonia.com/grado-gt220-review/

I'd be interested in reading more critical reviews of them. (I confess I don't have a ton of patience for YouTube reviews, so if that's where the negative ones are, that's why I haven't seen them.) I don't particularly have a dog in the fight... just looking for the best sound quality in a TWS. I was also considering the Noble Falcon Pro but some of the reviews I came across made me worried that I'd have similar issues with the treble to the Liberty 2 Pro. I've never been a huge Sennheiser fan in their full size phones, so I think that's why I didn't go for the MTW2. I may check out Sony's update for the XM3 when that's released.


----------



## Tommy C

SomeGuyDude said:


> I disagree there. One of the issues with TWS right now is that most of them care more about the tech and less about the sound. I've owned:
> 
> M&D MW07
> Senn MTW
> ...



Equalizer, hear-through and app support for firmware updates at the very least. 
My Jabra has heartrate monitor and a great app which I really like. 
I could live without the ANC and gestures but even features Ike Find My Buds are super helpful.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

Tommy C said:


> Equalizer, hear-through and app support for firmware updates at the very least.
> My Jabra has heartrate monitor and a great app which I really like.
> I could live without the ANC and gestures but even features Ike Find My Buds are super helpful.



Those are nice little bonuses but if you ask me what matters most about the headphones, I'm gonna say the sound. People seem to think firmware updates are like OS updates where it'll add all these brand spanking new features. If it works perfectly well out of the box, boom. It's done. 

I get that people want extra bells and whistles but this idea that a set is totally unacceptable for focusing on (gasp) the _sound_ kinda makes me laugh. Like, if you give me two sets at the same price, one sounds meh but is jam packed with neat features and one that's barebones but sounds amazing... it ain't hard to pick. I'm not gonna spend a ton of time futzing with features, but listening.


----------



## tinyman392

jant71 said:


> I don't hear(or read) the Grado is either overated nor universally positive. Definite unimpressive reviews out there and some good ones and can lead one to believe they need to be fit right to have the optimal sound. FWIR the most positives have come from less experienced where they are not compared to the best but things like the first Hifi-man TWS600 and not many at all vs. the top of the crop for sound. Too little to say I wouldn't be disappointed for $259 vs. my $145 Victor or that the Grado would sound better than the $150 Touch. Might be more interesting if they dropped price Like the Klipsch which have already been 50% on the T5 II, $129 for the Sennheiser CX400BT etc. So not many people in this thread have pulled the trigger.



The HiFiMan TWS600 wasn’t that great to be honest. It was a bit too mid heavy with a spike in the middle of the midrange. I’m not sure how the TWS800 fares though, but it’s something I want to eventually try.


----------



## DigDub

Canabuc said:


> My galaxy buds pro arriving today!
> A free here have said they sound great but that the treble can be harsh. Will be curious to see if I have the same opinion.
> 
> Crinacle gave these his best rating for a TWS. The buds+ are reported to have significantly harsher highs and those were still not too bad for me.
> ...


You should have a serious look at the fiil t1 pro. It meets most if  not all of your requirements. I'm impressed with mine.


----------



## CocaCola15

Just when I thought my issues with the Melomania Touch were over, I noticed the case was losing power (LED lights going from 5 to 2 in a couple of days). Not good. Same issue as the first version of the Senn True Wireless phones. I wrote CA customer support: this was their response. We’ll see.

We have been made aware of this on a small number of units and have already come up with a firmware fix that will be provided via the app soon. We are currently in the process of testing it fully and combining its release with a number of other improvements, so please give us some time for you to receive it.


----------



## Tommy C

SomeGuyDude said:


> Those are nice little bonuses but if you ask me what matters most about the headphones, I'm gonna say the sound. People seem to think firmware updates are like OS updates where it'll add all these brand spanking new features. If it works perfectly well out of the box, boom. It's done.
> 
> I get that people want extra bells and whistles but this idea that a set is totally unacceptable for focusing on (gasp) the _sound_ kinda makes me laugh. Like, if you give me two sets at the same price, one sounds meh but is jam packed with neat features and one that's barebones but sounds amazing... it ain't hard to pick. I'm not gonna spend a ton of time futzing with features, but listening.


 
For me I need an app with an equalizer for my iDevices so while sound quality is at the top of my list, when out and about I also want hear-through and I’m not doing any critical listening when outdoors so convenience with some features tops that for most people including myself, hence the need for a solid app.
i.e Jabra for example added ANC to the t75 which shows you how far we have come with TWS. 
If Grado is all for the sound that’s cool but they will be missing the mark for those who want some features to go along with their TWS especially when their asking price is $260. 
Sony, Sennheiser, Technics, Panasonic, JBL and many other brands proved that you can have high tier SQ with a solid app, it’s not one or the other when they could have done both. 
Grado choosing to go with no app at this price range feels like a half-baked product at their retail price.


----------



## Canabuc

SomeGuyDude said:


> My Jaybirds have a robust app and I like puttering with the EQ but I'd rather great sound than tweak crap with an app. ANC on an IEM isn't critical.


For you. Depends on use case. If I am alone in my room I might as well use my over ear headphones. If I am exercising commuting travelling etc then earbuds with ambient and ANC make more sense


----------



## Canabuc

SomeGuyDude said:


> Those are nice little bonuses but if you ask me what matters most about the headphones, I'm gonna say the sound. People seem to think firmware updates are like OS updates where it'll add all these brand spanking new features. If it works perfectly well out of the box, boom. It's done.
> 
> I get that people want extra bells and whistles but this idea that a set is totally unacceptable for focusing on (gasp) the _sound_ kinda makes me laugh. Like, if you give me two sets at the same price, one sounds meh but is jam packed with neat features and one that's barebones but sounds amazing... it ain't hard to pick. I'm not gonna spend a ton of time futzing with features, but listening.



You used word headphones not earbuds. To me they have different use cases.
Earbuds are lighter better seal no wires. So having ANC ambient and other tools on them to control them are important.
If I am alone and can immerse myself in my music o would rather use my headphones with 40 or 50mm drivers.


----------



## Canabuc

DigDub said:


> You should have a serious look at the fiil t1 pro. It meets most if  not all of your requirements. I'm impressed with mine.


Earfun pro is an option but the fiil is hard to get in Canada and my Chinese is not up to snuff to manage the app


----------



## DigDub

Canabuc said:


> Earfun pro is an option but the fiil is hard to get in Canada and my Chinese is not up to snuff to manage the app


The earfun pro is pretty good also, just more bass heavy and lack track back function if it matters to you. There's a youtube video to explain the options on the Chinese app, after setting them, there's no more need to tinker with it.


----------



## HerrXRDS

Canabuc said:


> Jabra Elite 85t- So far my top content all around. Very musical sound! One EQ'd in app, great lows without hitting mids. Treble is detailed and not thin like 75t. Only sound complaints is the treble is a bit soft compared to say the XM3 which has a bit more bite. This is a personal thing and maybe those of you finding the new buds pro might prefer the Jabra 85t.
> Otherwise has great ANC and ambient modes. Controls everything from the buds. Multi pairing which is unique among most earbuds. Great case and size. Ipx4 so can use with working out without worry.
> First workout with it was good but not great. Never fell out but due to how they fit they were more noticeable and distracting in my ears than the 75t,buds+ or L2P. Think if I could find a better tip this would be solved.



Eager to hear how you think Buds Pro compares to Elite 85t. 
Other than the fact I find the Buds Pro a bit sibilant, another thing I think they don't do too well, is pulling you into the music. Like how when I so something while listening to Sony N3 for example and find myself more often getting sidetracked and just starting to get engulfed into the music. Sony should figure out how to put the N3 in a waterproof TWS already.


----------



## Canabuc

HerrXRDS said:


> Eager to hear how you think Buds Pro compares to Elite 85t.
> Other than the fact I find the Buds Pro a bit sibilant, another thing I think they don't do too well, is pulling you into the music. Like how when I so something while listening to Sony N3 for example and find myself more often getting sidetracked and just starting to get engulfed into the music. Sony should figure out how to put the N3 in a waterproof TWS already.


Well I can assure you in my brief listening so far the treble is definitely softer on the 85t. So if that is an issue for you I think it would be a good option and is very tunable with the in built EQ


----------



## alleroy (Jan 22, 2021)

clerkpalmer said:


> The new Earin looks cool. Seemed like the most interesting tws from CES.


May I ask you some more details about the reasons for you consider them interesting?


----------



## DigDub

Fiil android app and translation for use with t1 pro and lite as they don't have English app support yet.

Download apk from
http://fiil.cn/cn/download.php


----------



## LordToneeus

vurtomatic said:


> Has anyone compared the FIIL T1 Pro with the T1 X? Wondering if it'll be a good upgrade. Or is there something else to try?


I’ve been itching to try the t1 pro, but settled for the Earfun Free Pro, since they’re supposedly the same model with a slight bass emphas in the latter. Well, they’re going back to Amazon. I muuuuuch prefer the sound of my trusty T1X. It was the hollow midrange. The T1X were a breath of fresh air after the Earfun Free Pro.

I will miss the size, fit, and ambient mode.


----------



## Luchyres

LordToneeus said:


> I’ve been itching to try the t1 pro, but settled for the Earfun Free Pro, since they’re supposedly the same model with a slight bass emphas in the latter. Well, they’re going back to Amazon. I muuuuuch prefer the sound of my trusty T1X. It was the hollow midrange. The T1X were a breath of fresh air after the Earfun Free Pro.
> 
> I will miss the size, fit, and ambient mode.



Would be curious to hear your thoughts on the T1 Pro then if you get ahold of it!


----------



## jant71 (Jan 22, 2021)

alleroy said:


> May I ask you some more details about the reasons for you consider them interesting?



Well obvious from looking at them it is most likely the Earpod more open style, the small size and low profile. Perhaps the interchange ability being symmetrical but not sure if that is just marketing but in reality not very useful at all. Awkward and unnatural after using TWS for a while to not put the right ear in the right side of the case or taking the right side out and putting in the right ear. Not sure when or why I would need to swap.

The low profile will certainly eliminate wind whistle vs. bigger stuff where if wind hits you the right way and can go underneath certain egg shapes that stick out and give you the wind whistle passing through that area that sticks out and the ear. Though that is just wind whistle and not general wind noise. 

The Earin is a big draw for those who want a more open sound. Big scare for me would be the touch controls.



That little plateau has to be the touch control and how do you grab these with two fingers without accidentally registering at times? Thinking these could be a no single press set up or if single press we wish it wasn't lol.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

Canabuc said:


> You used word headphones not earbuds. To me they have different use cases.
> Earbuds are lighter better seal no wires. So having ANC ambient and other tools on them to control them are important.
> If I am alone and can immerse myself in my music o would rather use my headphones with 40 or 50mm drivers.



Did you really just go all semantic on me because I didn't use the right word? I apologize, Emperor of Audio Product Language, forgive me my sins.

The point is you don't need ANC on in-ears nearly as much as over-ears because they tend to seal out noise far more effectively. A set of foams on IEMs will drown out sound better than ANC on full-size, it's why stage performers don't worry about ANC on their monitors.


----------



## SilverEars

SomeGuyDude said:


> The point is you don't need ANC on in-ears nearly as much as over-ears because they tend to seal out noise far more effectively. A set of foams on IEMs will drown out sound better than ANC on full-size, it's why stage performers don't worry about ANC on their monitors.


False.  Try it in a flight.


----------



## Canabuc

SomeGuyDude said:


> Did you really just go all semantic on me because I didn't use the right word? I apologize, Emperor of Audio Product Language, forgive me my sins.
> 
> The point is you don't need ANC on in-ears nearly as much as over-ears because they tend to seal out noise far more effectively. A set of foams on IEMs will drown out sound better than ANC on full-size, it's why stage performers don't worry about ANC on their monitors.


In a quiet environment I would agree. The beauty of tws is their use in many environments often noisy ones and ones in which headphones would be inadvisable. 
You are entitled to your opinion but it is for your use case fine generalize for everyone.


----------



## chinmie

SomeGuyDude said:


> Did you really just go all semantic on me because I didn't use the right word? I apologize, Emperor of Audio Product Language, forgive me my sins.
> 
> The point is you don't need ANC on in-ears nearly as much as over-ears because they tend to seal out noise far more effectively. A set of foams on IEMs will drown out sound better than ANC on full-size, it's why stage performers don't worry about ANC on their monitors.



if there were ANC tech for in ear monitors back when i was doing gigs, i would use it in a heart beat. using full ANC headphones for stage is not very appealing to look at by the audiences   

I don't gig anymore, but i do use my ANC TWS as earplugs when i play in studios with friends because i can hear their instrument's notes better than just using my usual etymotic earplugs. 

passive foam earplugs are better for low pass isolations, while ANC are better for high pass isolations, so each have their own strengths/use


----------



## SomeGuyDude

SilverEars said:


> False.  Try it in a flight.



Have. Thanks. ANC is better solely for that hum. But okay. I see this thread is about to devolve into a pissing match over splitting hairs so I'm out.


----------



## go0gle

alleroy said:


> May I ask you some more details about the reasons for you consider them interesting?



I’d say mainly the size.

shame we didn’t get anything new really, same old tech repackaged in different ways.


----------



## Canabuc

Decided to order the Fiil t1 pro . At 76$ CDN shipped I figure they can always be a backup of workout but. They will not be returnable if I don't like as costs to send back to China are crazy. Though other option is always to sell them to some one here if they are interested.

Any ideas how long till they would get to me? Also should I be expected to pay duties? Warranty?

How are they for bass? The earfun pro are tuned more for bass but didn't like no app or EQ adjustments. And limited track control.


----------



## Canabuc

Ok so first thoughts on the galaxy buds pro:

They sound painfully great!

Imaging sound stage separation are all great. Miss highs and lows are fantastic with a caveat.

These bugs are more dependent then for them any other twsi have ever tried. With wrong side tips or even the right side not adjusted just right the sound is too strong in the treble. Problem is unlike most earbuds these are hard to get the right fit or know when you have it. But when you do, they sound as good as any I have heard.

The big negative for me right now is the right earbuds in particular causes me alot of discomfort if I get that for seal for sound and even the left is not most comfortable. Buds+much better in that regard.

If the discomfort doesn't get better with time these will go back unfortunately. Then again my L2P were uncomfortable at the beginning too and got better after a few days.


----------



## stormwrx

Canabuc said:


> Ok so first thoughts on the galaxy buds pro:
> 
> They sound painfully great!
> 
> ...



I am similarly impressed with the sound of the Galaxy Buds Pro. If you have access to the tips from the Sennheiser MTW 1/2, I find that they increase the comfort and seal.


----------



## Canabuc

stormwrx said:


> I am similarly impressed with the sound of the Galaxy Buds Pro. If you have access to the tips from the Sennheiser MTW 1/2, I find that they increase the comfort and seal.


I don't unfortunately


----------



## stormwrx

Canabuc said:


> I don't unfortunately



You can find the MTW tips on eBay. I stole a set off my MTW2s, but ordered a replacement set off eBay.


----------



## bladefd

Canabuc said:


> Ok so first thoughts on the galaxy buds pro:
> 
> They sound painfully great!
> 
> ...



Interesting. How do they compare to the xm3?


----------



## tracyca

bladefd said:


> Interesting. How do they compare to the xm3?


Me, too my left ear gets uncomfortable from the pros. But they do sound great!


----------



## Canabuc

bladefd said:


> Interesting. How do they compare to the xm3?


Mids are more clear on the buds pro. Sound stage similar though. Sony sound feels a bit less natural and more electrotherapy amplified if that makes sense. Treble is higher in buds pro but feels a bit less of a bite if that makes sense.
If the Sony has for and were more stable I would have liked but given my plans to use for working out as well they were a bad choice with no IP and unstable for. Buds pro are hiring now so may not be good either but much more secure and IP x7


----------



## SilverEars (Jan 22, 2021)

I have very high hopes for bass out of TWS now, as Galaxy Buds Pro has exemplified.  I hope to see such driver design in the future, and I hope Samsung tames the treble with future iteration.  It's interesting what you can get when these big companies tries to push something.  You get dual dynamic driver TWS.  Crazy.

I have high hopes for TWS sound quality to get better.  Looking better with TWS than full-sized with AirPods Max, which hasn't really pushed the fidelity.


----------



## C_Lindbergh

Acourding to this poster on AvForum, CA will issue a firmware update in the upcoming days that should fix most problems with the Melomania touch 

https://www.avforums.com/threads/cambridge-audio-melomania-touch.2337070/page-10#post-28877348

I'll order them straight away if most issues are solved.


----------



## newtophones07

C_Lindbergh said:


> Acourding to this poster on AvForum, CA will issue a firmware update in the upcoming days that should fix most problems with the Melomania touch
> 
> https://www.avforums.com/threads/cambridge-audio-melomania-touch.2337070/page-10#post-28877348
> 
> I'll order them straight away if most issues are solved.



I had to send mine back for a refund.  Hope they fix the charging and connect issues, as they sound great.


----------



## Canabuc

SilverEars said:


> I have very high hopes for bass out of TWS now, as Galaxy Buds Pro has exemplified.  I hope to see such driver design in the future, and I hope Samsung tames the treble with future iteration.  It's interesting what you can get when these big companies tries to push something.  You get dual dynamic driver TWS.  Crazy.
> 
> I have high hopes for TWS sound quality to get better.  Looking better with TWS than full-sized with AirPods Max, which hasn't really pushed the fidelity.


What Phone you using? I have a Samsung and just did their head test. Seems after activating that sounds profile on the phone the buds treble seems a little less bright.


----------



## bladefd

C_Lindbergh said:


> Acourding to this poster on AvForum, CA will issue a firmware update in the upcoming days that should fix most problems with the Melomania touch
> 
> https://www.avforums.com/threads/cambridge-audio-melomania-touch.2337070/page-10#post-28877348
> 
> I'll order them straight away if most issues are solved.



I still use them daily. They sound awesome - bass slightly on heavy but that's my only complaint with sound quality. If the firmware solves the connection issue and the charging issue, my search is finished. If the issues continue then the Touch goes back. I gave it my all and been waiting patiently last 15 days since around January 7th.


----------



## SilverEars

Canabuc said:


> What Phone you using? I have a Samsung and just did their head test. Seems after activating that sounds profile on the phone the buds treble seems a little less bright.


Samsung, and I have some gripes about the new ones.  They got rid of indicator LEDs which was hugely useful if anybody has used a phone with an led indicator.  I don't know why battery drains quicker compared to LG phones.


----------



## natalieann

I can’t get enough of the UE fit. UE absolutely nailed it


----------



## Canabuc

SilverEars said:


> Samsung, and I have some gripes about the new ones.  They got rid of indicator LEDs which was hugely useful if anybody has used a phone with an led indicator.  I don't know why battery drains quicker compared to LG phones.


So on Samsung make sure to have Dolby Atmos on. Also do the adapt sound. It will EQ your buds to your hearing. For my ears at least it made the rebel a bit less bright.


----------



## clerkpalmer

bladefd said:


> I still use them daily. They sound awesome - bass slightly on heavy but that's my only complaint with sound quality. If the firmware solves the connection issue and the charging issue, my search is finished. If the issues continue then the Touch goes back. I gave it my all and been waiting patiently last 15 days since around January 7th.


Just wondering how awesome do they sound? I’ve read they sound better than any tws under 200 but how about the big boys? MTW2, Mw07 ? Do they sound better than those? I’m intrigued but ANC has become a “must” for me on TWS these days so I’m on the fence.


----------



## mbk

natalieann said:


> I can’t get enough of the UE fit. UE absolutely nailed it


 
These are a cool idea. How would you describe the sound? Any other TWS to compare to?


----------



## bladefd

clerkpalmer said:


> Just wondering how awesome do they sound? I’ve read they sound better than any tws under 200 but how about the big boys? MTW2, Mw07 ? Do they sound better than those? I’m intrigued but ANC has become a “must” for me on TWS these days so I’m on the fence.



I can only compare it to Sony wf-1000xm3, Sennheiser cx400bt (same drivers as MTW2), and Technics AZ70. I feel Touch has similar sound signature to Sony. Not quite natural+neutral like the Senn or AZ70, but definitely a lot of fun to listen to. 

Lows: Senn > Touch > Sony > AZ70
Mids:  Senn = AZ70 > Touch > Sony
Highs: Senn > AZ70 > Sony > Touch
On overall sound quality, I would go Senn > CA Touch > Technics > Sony.

My overall preference considering everything including price & features & fit/comfort: Touch > Sony > Technics > Senn.


----------



## Inear

Luchyres said:


> @jant71 @Luke Skywalker - I second the JBL ANC CLUB PRO+  - I really like mine after EQing to my taste. The only issue is that I've misplaced them  I'm considering buying them again, or whatever JBL makes next....




How is the ANC?


----------



## Canabuc (Jan 22, 2021)

Think my.samsungs are going back my ears can't take the pain despite loving the sound.

The JBL club pro on sale for about 170usd. I know there is a new tour + model coming out in may but doesn't sound like much is changing...

Same drivers same 3 mic system for calls same battery life.
Only thing sounding new was hands free voice assistant.

Anyone know of any other changes?


----------



## C_Lindbergh (Jan 23, 2021)

Apperently the update is out for the CA Melomania touch. I got the update for the app at least.

Did it fix most issues?


----------



## Rayners (Jan 23, 2021)

Hello !

After a few months with the Soundpeats Truengine 3SE, I noticed a problem with them. Sometimes, when listening music and raising the volume, the sound progressively goes only to the right until the point where I hear only sound coming from the right. When deceasing it, the sound goes to the left until the same point.

After two or three pairing, this problem is solved. But it reappears again quite after sometime (on a random basis).

Do you know what could cause this issue? Could it come from the 3SE or from my phone (OnePlus 7T Pro)?

Thank you!

PS: Final Audio Tips works really well with the 3SE!


----------



## chifihead (Jan 23, 2021)

Hi folks! Does anyone know if the Hifiman TWS400 and TWS600 are one and the same?

In Indonesia there's a model called the TWS400 which I find impossible to find the reviews for (those that I found are from India and Indonesia). I can find the TWS600 which have the same outward appearances though..



Rayners said:


> Hello !
> 
> After a few months with the Soundpeats Truengine 3SE, I noticed a problem with them. Sometimes, when listening music and raising the volume, the sound progressively goes only to the right until the point where I hear only sound coming from the right. When deceasing it, the sound goes to the left until the same point.
> 
> ...


Do you raise the volume using your phone or using the buds?

I found volume shanenigans when using the Sabbat X12 Ultra (or anything with Qualcomm 3020) when I change the volume using the buds. Only one side changed. But if I change the volume from the phone, no problemo. The issue is that the phone allows the buds to save their own volume level, and the phone has a separate volume level.

I don't find that issue on other phones (Realme) which only have one volume level (= the phone's), and changing the volume through the buds would only change the phone volume.

But your case might be different.


----------



## vladzakhar

C_Lindbergh said:


> Apperently the update is out for the CA Melomania touch. I got the update for the app at least.
> 
> Did it fix most issues?


Can't update mine here in US, it shows that old firmware is up to date. Maybe, the update is not "live" here yet.


----------



## SilverEars (Jan 23, 2021)

chifihead said:


> Hi folks! Does anyone know if the Hifiman TWS400 and TWS600 are one and the same?
> 
> In Indonesia there's a model called the TWS400 which I find impossible to find the reviews for (those that I found are from India and Indonesia). I can find the TWS600 which have the same outward appearances though..
> 
> ...


Make sure to look at the measurements. Hifiman's first TWS release had nasty measurements.  It was the 600.  avoid Hifiman TWS like a plague!


----------



## chifihead

SilverEars said:


> Make sure to look at the measurements. Hifiman's first TWS release had nasty measurements.  It was the 600.  avoid Hifiman TWS like a plague!


Yikes, probably why they rebranded it here... 

Thanks!


----------



## SilverEars

chifihead said:


> Yikes, probably why they rebranded it here...
> 
> Thanks!


This nasty.


----------



## tinyman392

SilverEars said:


> This nasty.



What's the compensated plot look like?  I know the IEM had a small spike in the 1-2k range which was very complained about (and rightfully so).  We don't know what the TWS400 or TWS800 actually sounds like.  I actually am interested in the TWS800 and how it sounds.  HiFiMan has made great sounding IEMs in the past RE-400 being one of the best bang for the buck IEMs.  Their RE-1000 was actually really good though it had a V-shaped signature to it.  RE-600 was very sweet, but dark sounding.


----------



## SilverEars (Jan 23, 2021)

tinyman392 said:


> What's the compensated plot look like?  I know the IEM had a small spike in the 1-2k range which was very complained about (and rightfully so).  We don't know what the TWS400 or TWS800 actually sounds like.  I actually am interested in the TWS800 and how it sounds.  HiFiMan has made great sounding IEMs in the past RE-400 being one of the best bang for the buck IEMs.  Their RE-1000 was actually really good though it had a V-shaped signature to it.  RE-600 was very sweet, but dark sounding.


iems from back in those days really weren't GREAT sounding.  We had so many crappy flavor of the month hypes.

Those were times when people rarely looked at measurements and better accurate measurements weren't as accessible.  Headfi just went by random iems introduced that got hyped.


----------



## tinyman392 (Jan 23, 2021)

SilverEars said:


> iems from back in those days really weren't GREAT sounding.  We had so many crappy flavor of the month hypes.
> 
> Those were times when people rarely looked at measurements and better accurate measurements weren't as accessible.  Headfi just went by random iems introduced that got hyped.



Tyll sad noises (Rin too, though he stopped measuring; I guess they both did).  The RE-400 measured very well.  RE-600 measured linearly until the treble dropped.  RE-1000 has a V-shaped signature (shows on measurements).

Edit: still didn't answer my question though, is that graph compensated?  And if so, for what target?


----------



## SilverEars (Jan 23, 2021)

tinyman392 said:


> Tyll sad noises (Rin too, though he stopped measuring; I guess they both did).  The RE-400 measured very well.  RE-600 measured linearly until the treble dropped.  RE-1000 has a V-shaped signature (shows on measurements).


Show me from an accurate rig if you want to convince me.

I look at raw measurements.


----------



## tinyman392 (Jan 23, 2021)

SilverEars said:


> Show me from an accurate rig if you want to convince me.



Innerfidelity didn't have an accurate rig?  Granted all of their measurements are gone now...

Edit: Rin's measurements are the only ones still up from that time.  Innerfidelity had a huge library of headphones measured.  It was sad to see those go


----------



## SilverEars

tinyman392 said:


> Innerfidelity didn't have an accurate rig?  Granted all of their measurements are gone now...


Is that all you base what accurate is?  Do you understand measurements?  You keep asking compensation.


----------



## tinyman392 (Jan 23, 2021)

SilverEars said:


> Is that all you base what accurate is?



You haven't answered any of my questions...  Why should I answer any more of yours?  But yes, Innerfidelity's rig was accurate.  So are many others (like Crinacle and Rins, for example).

Edit: I keep asking compensation because it's important.  The ear, and rigs in general, have natural resonances that need to be accounted for and the entire point of DF compensation...  Do you understand measurements?  A headphone that measures flat in a raw measurement is a very dark, V-shaped sounding headphone.

Edit 2: if you look at the measurements for any Etymotic, they tend to have a pretty big spike in the 2-4k region for whatever reason...  Why must that be!  Naw, they just sound horrible.


----------



## SilverEars (Jan 23, 2021)

tinyman392 said:


> You haven't answered any of my questions...  Why should I answer any more of yours?  But yes, Innerfidelity's rig was accurate.  So are many others (like Crinacle and R


You obviously do not underatand measurements if you can't see it in the posted measurement and ask for compensation.


----------



## tinyman392 (Jan 23, 2021)

SilverEars said:


> You obviously do not underatand measurements if you can see it in the posted measurement and ask for compensation.



It's obvious that you don't understand the reason _why_ compensation is done. Whether it be DF, harman target, etc. spoiler alert, they all seem to compensate for spikes in the 2-4k region for some reason... Sometimes lower sometimes higher depending on the rig. Hence I ask if it's compensated... 🤦‍♂️

Look, it's got a huge spike!  Surely it can't be good!  (sarcasm for obvious reasons, but it's a near-_universally_ agreed upon very, very good headphone; _many_ would chastise you for saying it's bad).





Note I _admitted_ a few flaws about the TWS600, even regarding the spikes you talked about.  However, your plot was very misleading because you showed a raw plot with 0 compensation (it exaggerates any spikes centered in the 2.5k region, but for a reason).  I also said that many of HiFiMans IEMs from the past have been good and measured well. 

Then you go off and flame on Innerfidelity and the massive amount of work they put into getting measurements out there and reviewing headphones which is absurdly unfair.


----------



## bladefd (Jan 23, 2021)

C_Lindbergh said:


> Apperently the update is out for the CA Melomania touch. I got the update for the app at least.
> 
> Did it fix most issues?



Firmware update is not out yet. I am guessing Monday probably.

Edit: Apparently it came out today so I stand corrected. I've not tried it yet


----------



## Canabuc

So, I want to love the Samsung's as I really like the clarity. But despite multiple tips and insertion methods I get literal pain in my right ear and neither are comfortable for long. It's amazing how no reviewers online mention this. Though did see 1 actually and many on Reddit.
Hope they are not just shills getting free goods or cash so don't want to insult the golden goose.

They are literally the only earbud ever that hurt me. Some may be less comfortable or have a bad fit but never painful.
I'd rather have the XM3 back as while I was too aware of them in my ears they didn't hurt.

So far I think the Jabra 85t have best combination of sound while still having ANC and full functionality. After EQing up the treble and down a bit the bass they really are such a natural sounding bit with great lows and mids and highs that are natural, not too sibilant and not harsh.
My only minor gripe is that while comfortable in ear, exercise I do feel them move a bit and am aware of them more than traditional round in ear buds. They haven't fallen out though they don't  feel as locked in.

JBL club pro plus coming tomorrow. I know their ANC not as good as jabra. Price for me was actually 10$more. But if they sound as good or better but with more secure fit they could be my daily driver. If not will stick with 85t. With Fiil t1pro coming from China that could be my workout bids given small size weight ipx4 and wings to secure fit.


----------



## CocaCola15 (Jan 23, 2021)

vladzakhar said:


> Can't update mine here in US, it shows that old firmware is up to date. Maybe, the update is not "live" here yet.


In the USA here, and they updated after a bit of refreshing them with my iPhone 8+. They still sound great, but we'll see if the update fixes the connection/case battery drain. Sure hope so. I want to keep them. Love the sound.


----------



## C_Lindbergh

Seems promising judging by the comments from one user at avforum. 

https://www.avforums.com/threads/cambridge-audio-melomania-touch.2337070/page-11#post-28882851


----------



## beowulf

Canabuc said:


> So, I want to love the Samsung's as I really like the clarity. But despite multiple tips and insertion methods I get literal pain in my right ear and neither are comfortable for long. It's amazing how no reviewers online mention this. Though did see 1 actually and many on Reddit.
> Hope they are not just shills getting free goods or cash so don't want to insult the golden goose.



Comfort with those models can be very subjective. I have some Galaxy Buds Plus I can wear for 10 hours a day of needed without any discomfort and barely feel them. They're like custom IEMs, perfectly matched my ears out of luck. But know some friends with them who struggle finding comfort. Same for other models. Hard to hit 100% without going custom.


----------



## bladefd

CocaCola15 said:


> In the USA here, and they updated after a bit of refreshing them with my iPhone 8+. They still sound great, but we'll see if the update fixes the connection/case battery drain. Sure hope so. I want to keep them. Love the sound.



Just updated mine. Went smoothly. Will know over next couple days of use to see how the update was.


----------



## dweaver

Anyone try the Audiofly AFT2? The shape seems similar to the MT. No app but the price seems fairly reasonable but not many reviews out there. The one review I did see I think the guy liked them as much as the cheaper Sennheiser TWS can't remember model name...


----------



## Canabuc (Jan 23, 2021)

beowulf said:


> Comfort with those models can be very subjective. I have some Galaxy Buds Plus I can wear for 10 hours a day of needed without any discomfort and barely feel them. They're like custom IEMs, perfectly matched my ears out of luck. But know some friends with them who struggle finding comfort. Same for other models. Hard to hit 100% without going custom.



Well I love my galaxy buds + and besides some itching from the tips never had comfort issues.
Bought these pros from Costco so have 90 days to return and now there is a 65$cdn (50usd) rebate of I send them some old broken earphones as trade inaking them also a very good value.

I want them to work as I love the sound with my Samsung phone.

I tried and experimented with some things. Seems if I size down to medium tip on the left it is comfortable at least for an hour including during a workout. Haven't had chance to listen for longer.

The right ear is the problem. Most eartips I need a larger size on the right. Seems the medium while not painful doesn't make an adequate seal which is why I went to the large. The large makes the seal but because the tips don't insert into the ear canal like typical tips it causes the body of the earbuds to push on my ear causing very sore spots. Tried Spinfit cp360 which didn't work well as well as a comply which was a bit better but wouldnt allow me to close the case and felt different from the stock tips so weird mixing the 2.

Well I somehow found an old loose tip I think was from Sony earbud from pre wireless days. Managed to get it on and while not perfect didn't feel too bad. In fact by end of the workout both sides stayed in place with no pain. Only issue was when lying on my back the seal was looser so would lose some bass unless I readjusted but that is true of most tws for me. The sound was great and I had no pain or pressure. In fact they seemed not really more uncomfortable than other earbuds.

My dilemma is that I will only be keeping 1 between the 85t and the buds pro.  The 85t sound very good but are a bit less detailed than the Samsungs. Bass is a bit looser on 85t as well though still excellent. I think I would be happy just keeping the Jabras but for working out they don't feel as secure as the Samsungs.

Anyone have experience with any oval tips 3rd party? I know Misodiko makes some that fit 85t/freebuds pro.


----------



## Canabuc (Jan 23, 2021)

On another note regarding ANC.
Tried an experiment. Sat in my den home theater and fired up a YouTube video of airplane noise at cruising altitude and noisy coffee shop. Tested the Jabra and Samsung.
Both did very well and truthfully for both those environments there was no clear winner. The plane noise was effectively gone. Cafe noise only a bit of the highest frequency could be heard. And this was with no .usic playing just the ANC on highest setting for both. So with music would easily not hear anything!

I do miss having all the controls on the buds pro as I could on the buds plus. But the lab feature is not available to do so. As such I gave up voice assistant and ambient/ANC.

Reason being  and this is a tip for Samsung users. Handsfree Bixby can turn on and off ANCand ambient mode. And if I talk to someone the ambient recognition when talking works well provided I don't talk or sing to myself.

So if any other galaxy buds pro users are out there I want to hear from you regarding tip selection and opinion on sound.

Those who feel the highs are too tinny or sharp or that bass isn't great, I suspect are using tips not making a great seal which also affects ANC.


----------



## Remiam7

jant71 said:


> Well obvious from looking at them it is most likely the Earpod more open style, the small size and low profile. Perhaps the interchange ability being symmetrical but not sure if that is just marketing but in reality not very useful at all. Awkward and unnatural after using TWS for a while to not put the right ear in the right side of the case or taking the right side out and putting in the right ear. Not sure when or why I would need to swap.
> 
> The low profile will certainly eliminate wind whistle vs. bigger stuff where if wind hits you the right way and can go underneath certain egg shapes that stick out and give you the wind whistle passing through that area that sticks out and the ear. Though that is just wind whistle and not general wind noise.
> 
> ...



Well,been using my Earin A3’s  since last Wednesday, and I absolutely love them.  Never thought I would get used to any  open design.  But the A3 sound incredible to me.


----------



## clerkpalmer

Remiam7 said:


> Well,been using my Earin A3’s  since last Wednesday, and I absolutely love them.  Never thought I would get used to any  open design.  But the A3 sound incredible to me.


When did they become available? I was monitoring their website. Can you offer more sound impressions? Thanks.


----------



## clerkpalmer

bladefd said:


> I can only compare it to Sony wf-1000xm3, Sennheiser cx400bt (same drivers as MTW2), and Technics AZ70. I feel Touch has similar sound signature to Sony. Not quite natural+neutral like the Senn or AZ70, but definitely a lot of fun to listen to.
> 
> Lows: Senn > Touch > Sony > AZ70
> Mids:  Senn = AZ70 > Touch > Sony
> ...


Some pretty high praise. Definitely intrigued.


----------



## Precogvision (Jan 25, 2021)

I've been listening to the Galaxy Buds Pro the last couple days, so I thought I'd drop some impressions here. I won't focus too much on the technical traits, as honestly, I don't care about that stuff very much. I was surprised by how small the case is, though! It's a little thicker than the AirPods Pro case, but feels more compact. The controls of the Buds Pro do seem somewhat finicky; for example, I don't like how they inadvertently pause or swap through the ANC modes each time you physically adjust them. You also lose access to a lot of flexibility on iOS (as there's no app).






But as for the actual sound, well, I have to say...they sound really good. I couldn't get them out of my ears the evening they arrived and almost fell asleep with them on! They’re warmer, more V-shaped than their predecessors; the bass shelf doesn’t level out until slightly past 600hZ. The quality of the bass is good overall, sporting appropriate levels of slam and texturing; however, bloat does seem imminent at times which I’d attribute to a lack of intangible control. While the upper-midrange presentation doesn’t seem to have changed much, this more gentle slope to the bass region makes the Buds Plus a tad less lean (a criticism of most Harman-oriented IEMs) in the notes. Another welcome change is the treble. Treble is almost perfectly linear throughout the impact and crash regions. Yeah, it’s still fairly elevated, and while I don’t think extension is much better, this is impressive considering how rare normal treble is in most cheaper IEMs. The FR graph corroborates this, and I don't hear sibilant or tinny treble; your mileage might vary and all that.

Technical ability is, of course, more middling and I don’t think it’s really an improvement over the OG Buds or Buds+ in this regard. In fact, I suspect some might find the OG Buds and Buds+ slightly more resolving because they’re brighter, leaner in the notes with the Buds+ in particular having a much more incisive bass shelf. I'd also be remiss if I did not point out a notable lack of center image incisiveness; even for a TWS, the Buds Pro are pushing it on this front. Nonetheless, the Buds Pro have an extremely pleasing tonal balance. Good enough, in fact, for me to say that not only is this the best TWS I’ve heard yet, but that the Buds Pro are also competitive with many of their similarly-priced, wired counterparts. Hope these impressions are helpful!

TL;DR Definitely some technical limitations - particularly if you're on iOS - but the sound itself is quite good, even class-leading for TWS.


----------



## CocaCola15

bladefd said:


> Just updated mine. Went smoothly. Will know over next couple days of use to see how the update was.


Gave mine some ear time and they connected right away. Sound great, more ear time but think they got it figured out. Hope so.


----------



## DigDub (Jan 24, 2021)

Buds pro came with my s21 ultra purchase.






Clear and elevated highs and mids. Bass is more of the mid bass variety, so vocals sound warm and natural, but also gives a slight impression of muddy sound. I do not find them sibilant or overly bright.

I can see why some people will have issue with the fit as the inner part of the bud is quite bulbous and may result in a poor fit. The nozzle is also quite short, so most 3rd party tips will be too short to be used on the buds pro. My ears just about fit the buds pro with the stock large tips, so I have no issues with the fit.


----------



## bladefd

CocaCola15 said:


> Gave mine some ear time and they connected right away. Sound great, more ear time but think they got it figured out. Hope so.



They connected right away for me too. I want to see if they disconnect again. Seems good so far!


----------



## Canabuc

bladefd said:


> They connected right away for me too. I want to see if they disconnect again. Seems good so far!


Where can Canadian get the MT?


----------



## Dregur (Jan 24, 2021)

CocaCola15 said:


> Gave mine some ear time and they connected right away. Sound great, more ear time but think they got it figured out. Hope so.





bladefd said:


> Just updated mine. Went smoothly. Will know over next couple days of use to see how the update was.



Same...but I'm still having some issues. It seems the re-pairing process, while seemingly more stable and consistent, takes longer than before. I'm also have some weird volume issues where the volume is jittery and going up and down, but I can't tell if it's my phone or not (OnePlus 8t).


----------



## slex

Precogvision said:


> I've been listening to the Galaxy Buds Pro the last couple days, so I thought I'd drop some impressions here. I won't focus too much on the technical traits, as honestly, I don't care about that stuff very much. I was surprised by how small the case is, though! It's a little thicker than the AirPods Pro case, but feels more compact. The controls of the Buds Pro do seem somewhat finicky; for example, I don't like how they inadvertently pause or swap through the ANC modes each time you physically adjust them. You also lose access to a lot of flexibility on iOS (as there's no app).
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Precog, have you heard the Samsung Beans? Judging by this new design. Samsung Bud Lives might be a .


----------



## Rayners

chifihead said:


> Hi folks! Does anyone know if the Hifiman TWS400 and TWS600 are one and the same?
> 
> In Indonesia there's a model called the TWS400 which I find impossible to find the reviews for (those that I found are from India and Indonesia). I can find the TWS600 which have the same outward appearances though..
> 
> ...



Hello ! I raise the volume mainly using my phone. However, in my case, when I raise the volume, when one side goes up, the other side goes down. It means that at full volume, I hear only the right earbud and at very low volume, I hear only the left earbud.

The 3SE also use the Qualcomm 3020, could there be a link ?


----------



## rhsauer (Jan 24, 2021)

I received the Soundcore Life Dot 2 NC yesterday from Walmart.  I think these are the same earphones as the Soundcore Life A2 NC, which are now available on Amazon, with only cosmetic differences (e.g., the color of the control button is black on mine, but grey on the A2s).  Specs are otherwise identical, and both cost $79.

For the price, these are a really easy choice.  They are, hands down, the most comfortable earphones I've ever worn -- it's seriously easy to forget you're wearing them.  They are extremely light and rest largely outside the ear (like the Liberty 2 Pros) and are held in place with a small fin (three size choices included) -- but they're small enough so they don't protrude much.  They have 11mm dynamic drivers that really pump out the bass and, overall, have a smooth consumer-oriented sound.  The sound quality is not _quite_ on par with the higher end Soundcores or the Jabra 75t (or, certainly, the 85t) -- and while these might not be the earphones I'd pick to sit in an easy chair and listen (that would be my MTWs), they have a great "walking around" sound that's also perfect for watching video.

The ANC is surprisingly good at this price point.  Since I can't get on the subway or a plane at the moment, I tested via YouTube videos and compared against my APPs, Jabras and the Soundcore Liberty Air 2 Pros, and the ANC was broadly comparable.  ANC is to a significant extent dependent on the quality of the fit and seal of the earphones, and the good thing about the Life Dot 2 NC's is that (in addition to the five sizes of tips that are supplied) many, many third party tips fit on the earphones _and_ in the case, so most people should be able to find a good fit and seal.  I can't overstate how much I appreciate that, because my ears are hard to fit and nothing is more frustrating than earphones that are otherwise terrific but just don't quite fit with the supplied tips -- and don't easily allow third party tips (and yes, I'm looking at you Jabra 85t).

Battery life is billed at 7 hours (not yet tested by me), build quality is good for the price, and the range seems terrific (I went down for coffee this morning and lost the connection only briefly on the way down the stairs at the other side of the house).  Another thing that sets these apart of many other earphones in their price range is the wonderful Soundcore app, which allows changes to the control scheme, ANC and transparency settings, and firmware updates -- and also has about the best equalizer options I've seen.  There's even an iOS widget that allows on the fly changes to ANC options.

Finally, the call quality seems to be superb.  There are six microphones total and my guess is that the four external mics are used for noise reduction and "beamforming" (whatever that is) during calls.  I haven't tested from the subway platform yet (for obvious reasons), but I'm told the connection from indoors and out was terrific and suitable for work calls.

Overall, if you're looking for an extremely comfortable, nice sounding earphones for daily use at a price that won't knock your socks off, these are a great option.


----------



## HiddenUser

helmutcheese said:


> My *SoundPeats H1 Premium's* came today, I am not really a reviewer but this is what I typed on Kickstarter.
> 
> =================================================================================================================
> 
> ...


Hi,

Thanks for your quick review. It seems that you are not happy with your H1, isn't it? I was surprised when you said your phone didn't switch to aptX HD mode! Could it be a bug in the H1 firmware? According to Qualcomm, aptX Adaptive is backwards compatible with aptX HD. Did you force the aptX HD codec in the developer settings of your Z2 Force? I think that the pairing issue could be fixed with a firmware update. Did you report it?

On the other hand, do you know Kenneth Tanaka? If not, it's a japanese YouTube reviewer and he reviewed the H1 and compared it with other earbuds. The H1 did not fare well in a latency test using the gaming mode. Surprisingly, the AAC codec on the AirPods Pro has much lower latency that the gaming mode on the H1! See THIS video.

Well, I was going to buy the standard H1, but I think I have changed my mind after reading your first impressions.What other alternatives are there with aptX Adaptive, low latency and good sound and fit?


----------



## jant71 (Jan 24, 2021)

Remiam7 said:


> Well,been using my Earin A3’s  since last Wednesday, and I absolutely love them.  Never thought I would get used to any  open design.  But the A3 sound incredible to me.


Okay what about the touch control scheme and the aspect of sensitivity and accidental pressing if you want to adjust fit. Spill. 



clerkpalmer said:


> When did they become available? I was monitoring their website. Can you offer more sound impressions? Thanks.


Yep, thought it was being crowdfunded so it would be at least another month.

Two in here say they have them as well. https://www.reddit.com/r/Earin/comments/l1nuyc/my_very_quick_initial_review_of_the_a3/
What did we miss??  People there not liking the fit. Had the same with the Goal. Foams fixed thay right up. Problem with A3 being Earpod style and trying to be small is, while you can fix that style with foams or attachments in many situations and might need to, the A3 design doesn't allow this like the Goal does. Unless somehow the pins could poke through the foam and still contact to charge and they would still fit in the case right. Not likely any mod will work with the case. The idea of small and small case is great but that plays into the Earpod style weakness. If they are too small to fit right they lose the bass. These of course are a much more buy them from where you can return them type with no fit options.


----------



## chifihead

Rayners said:


> Hello ! I raise the volume mainly using my phone. However, in my case, when I raise the volume, when one side goes up, the other side goes down. It means that at full volume, I hear only the right earbud and at very low volume, I hear only the left earbud.
> 
> The 3SE also use the Qualcomm 3020, could there be a link ?


Probably. I suggest going to Developer Options and toggling Absolute Volume.
https://screenrant.com/android-absolute-bluetooth-volume-explained-disable/

I find that you need to restart your phone so the change can take effect.


----------



## jant71 (Jan 24, 2021)

Gamesky Status video...


Not sure about the charge port on the bottom of the case. Gamesky unfortunately never really directly compares sound so the talk about the sound quality being good could be put into more perspective since he just reviewed the Buds Pro, Liberty Air pro 2, and the Touch as well. Maybe in the comments. Of course these would be less risk and better value at the $99 than $169.


----------



## Canabuc

Any JBl club pro plus users here? I am feeling like a bud whore here trying to find best set for me.
JBLs just got here by Amazon.

first impressions case is nice and buds seem pretty comfortable.

Sound volume on stock setting seemed anemic out of the box.
Some of the DJ tunings sounded good but again volume seemed low.

Then it was like pulling back the current to the VIP sound room when I discovered the custom EQ!!!

Holy Crap! This EQ is insane. Many bands but more importantly you can dial in the exact frequency on them to tune it near infinitely. Also that anemic sound can get so much louder! The base miss and treble can really sing! Why they have it sounding so weak volume wise out of the box is beyond me. Most average consumers probably won’t take the time to adjust that complex but incredible equalizer. But if they do......wow!

More playing needed but for pure sound and out of box comfort colour me impressed!


----------



## SilverEars

slex said:


> Precog, have you heard the Samsung Beans? Judging by this new design. Samsung Bud Lives might be a .


Beans is not an iem.  It lacks seal.  Need I say more?  Impossible to do get defined or good bass out of it, and ANC really suffers due to bad seal.  earpods/airpods were really terrible due to lack of seal, and live was even worse.  Also, I find Samsung ANC mediocre in general even with the new Pros.


----------



## Canabuc

Another question for JBL users. Do you have issues with the workers charging case. Seems to not like my Samsung Qi charger blinking and stopping to charge after a few seconds. 
Seems to reverse charge ok on my phone though. The Red light doesn't always turn off... Wonder if the case is defective.


----------



## CocaCola15 (Jan 24, 2021)

jant71 said:


> Gamesky Status video...
> 
> 
> Not sure about the charge port on the bottom of the case. Gamesky unfortunately never really directly compares sound so the talk about the sound quality being good could be put into more perspective since he just reviewed the Buds Pro, Liberty Air pro 2, and the Touch as well. Maybe in the comments. Of course these would be less risk and better value at the $99 than $169.



Being as I ordered these for $79 on Indiegogo (one of the first 300) and already own/love the CA Melomania Touch (Gamesky also had praise for the sound, and it seems the issues with connections/charging are now resolved via FW update), I think I am set. Haha. Famous HF last words. But honestly, if the Status phones are as he says (and I am also a happy status customer, with the BT One on-ear phones), very excited to hear these interesting BT IEMs.

Got notice tonight; they have shipped. Should be here in a few days.


----------



## bladefd

Canabuc said:


> Where can Canadian get the MT?



I think they pulled them from the market. Now with new firmware they might return back to Amazon


----------



## bladefd

jant71 said:


> Gamesky Status video...
> 
> 
> Not sure about the charge port on the bottom of the case. Gamesky unfortunately never really directly compares sound so the talk about the sound quality being good could be put into more perspective since he just reviewed the Buds Pro, Liberty Air pro 2, and the Touch as well. Maybe in the comments. Of course these would be less risk and better value at the $99 than $169.




They don't have an app or transparency mode, do they?? I am curious about sound quality comparisons too


----------



## MCPT

Is there anyone who has been able to compare the sound and function of the Nuarl N6 Pro and the CA Melomania Touch?

I'm focusing on both of these because my primary criteria are:

1 Sound quality
2 Independent use of left or right earbud (I often only want one in when working and want to be able to switch ears and still use the phone)
3 Use of a wing or fin to keep bud stable in ear

It seems like many of the other top rated earbuds for sound are lacking criteria 2 and/or 3 (otherwise I would entertain Jabra, Sony, JBL, Bose, Tevi, etc.).  

I know the Touch have had some connection issues that CA appears to be working hard to remedy.  I currently have the Soundcore Liberty Pro 2 and I find the fit and function to be perfect as I don't need ANC, but I find that there is a harshness in the treble that can't be tamed to my liking with the apps EQ.


----------



## helmutcheese (Jan 24, 2021)

HiddenUser said:


> Hi,
> 
> Thanks for your quick review. It seems that you are not happy with your H1, isn't it? I was surprised when you said your phone didn't switch to aptX HD mode! Could it be a bug in the H1 firmware? According to Qualcomm, aptX Adaptive is backwards compatible with aptX HD. Did you force the aptX HD codec in the developer settings of your Z2 Force? I think that the pairing issue could be fixed with a firmware update. Did you report it?
> 
> ...





*Here is my Kickstarter Feedback:

1)* "H1 Premiums arrive today, set them up and little disappointed to see the same cheap pairing as the Sonics in that they try to auto pair each time they are disconnected from a device so not ideal.

Not sure if they remember 2-3 devices like all my other SoundPeats Neckbands or simply forget/repair each time.

Also the App in a nightmare to sign up to as the email box is just out of screen so you cannot type in it, I manage to get my email in by copy/pasting and messing about to finally hit the Verification Button.

I did not see any option to check/update Firmware, they have an EQ setting and a ANC setting which I assume does nothing on these.

Also same as Sonics in that QUALCOMM's claim of aptx-Adaptative being backwards compatible is bollocks as it falls back to aptX on my Moto Z2 Force instead of aptX-HD so if I listen to amazon HD or any Hi-Res it will be stuck with 16/44.1, I would be better of listening on my SoundPeats Force HD in aptX-HD.

The sound is not that great TBH (I would rather disable the EQ fully and use PowerAmp's EQ but you cannot)but the volume unlike the Sonics is pretty loud using SpinFits tips as none of the included tips are large enough for me as like the Sonics they did not include their XL tips.

I also found the FW setting in the SoundPeats App appears in very top of menu before you connect the earphones and disappears once connected, so I assume none are available"

*EDIT : They are sounding ok now with SpinFits Tips and I am adjusted to the different sound from my other earbuds.


2) "*Fit is far better than the *Sonics*, instructions book is for the *H1 not H1 Prem,* not a big deal.

So far I discharged them once, not sure if they were fully charged but did say 100% but Right Bud dies with the Left Bus still at 30% which is not great for TWS Mirroring, my *Sonics* die within minutes of each other getting in the 0-10% battery range which is great.

I will condition the battery by charging/using/discharge them over the course of the week and test them overnight and I would hope to get at least 8 hours even though aptX on PC as Volume will not be anywhere near 60% for Brown Noise to sleep to."


*3)* "Again the Right Bud dies at 30%-40% ahead of the Left Bud so about 6-7 hours @ 31% Volume aptX during the night, so I doubt the will do the claimed 10hours @ 60% Volume SBC especially if the Left Bud is doing all the work as the Right seems to have poor battery or is not doing its fair share of the Mirroring.

The Right Bud turns off and the Left Bud keeps working and if you leave it 5-10 mins to recover some battery and turn off the Left Bud  and connect the Right Bud it will not auto connect like the *Sonics* do in Mirroring Mode instead it will be seen in as an LE headset for you Pair to if you choose (at least I think this is what is going on)."


*4)* "I now think it is the TWS Mirroring which is not working as it does work fine on my *Sonics* on my Android and PC as it is done on the earbuds not the device unlike TWS+.

With aptX @ 80% Volume I took a screenshot as Right Bud  died and Left Bud had 40% left, it then took 2 hours (*I set the Android Stopwatch it said 2h 10s*) till the Left Bud died so that is not useable no way and a waste of battery if one dies when other is still at 40% which is like the old Master/Slave system.

If you let it rest 5-10 mins you turn it back on you will see the at Left bud 40% and Right bud 10% then a after a few minutes the Right Bud will die again.

I will again try a few charge/discharge session but this looks like a bad battery in the Right bud, the *Sonics* can Mirror for each other so if any one is turned off the other after about 1sec takes over and when one dies the other will be at 10% or less and die within 5-10mins of each other but nowhere near the claimed 15hours ' 60% Vol SBC even at 31% aptX."


*5)* "Got an SoundPeats App update today but it looks exactly the same and still no way to check FW if the buds are connected that menu is not visible and is only visible if buds are not connected.

Adding to the Right Bud continues dropping battery 20-30% ahead of the Left Bud and I now have an Volume issue where it goes really low and the audio sound underwater/muddy like it is in LE Talk Mode (You will see an LE device next to H1 when you pair these).

I can turn Volume to 100% and its not that loud and still underwater/muddy, resetting in SoundPeats App did not fix it also re-pairing with Android and PC did not fix it and nothing fixed it till I did a full reset in the case and re-pairing to Android and PC is needed after doing this.

Today it happened again and I cannot get it to fix so I am done with these, they were rushed without proper testing.

I am back to my SoundPeats Force HD neckband and at least I have long battery (35hours) and I can have the aptX-HD option as QUALCOMM's claim is BS as aptX-Adaptive being backwards compatible as it does not fall back to HD but is on aptX (the same  on *Sonics*).and reading comments from others for *both Sonics and H1's* it is the same on many different makes/models of phones so not me alone.

This was confirmed by Lenovo/Moto staff on their forum, on my Moto Z2 Force aptX Adaptive will not fall back to aptX-HD and will not on any phone unless the phone has both aptX-Adaptive and aptx-HD support.

I had a set of B&W P14's that were also aptX-Adaptive and I though they fell back to aptX-HD but I found out from above staff and using an App to see codecs they have the standalone aptX-HD codec as well as aptX-Adaptive.

So again so much for QUALCOMMS claim of backwards compatibility if you need the manufacturers to pay a license for more codecs."


----------



## slex

SilverEars said:


> Beans is not an iem.  It lacks seal.  Need I say more?  Impossible to do get defined or good bass out of it, and ANC really suffers due to bad seal.  earpods/airpods were really terrible due to lack of seal, and live was even worse.  Also, I find Samsung ANC mediocre in general even with the new Pros.


Guess it's a failed product.😊


----------



## Luchyres

Canabuc said:


> Any JBl club pro plus users here? I am feeling like a bud whore here trying to find best set for me.
> JBLs just got here by Amazon.
> 
> first impressions case is nice and buds seem pretty comfortable.
> ...




My experience was very similar to yours - I loved them after EQing, and don't mind the weaker ANC. I do wish they filtered for my voice a bit better, but otherwise I'm very sad I lost them and your post is making me think about buying them again - where's the best deal currently?


----------



## SilverEars (Jan 24, 2021)

slex said:


> Guess it's a failed product.😊


Samsung has plenty of those failed ideas.  To me it is, but may not be for the general public that uses airpods without any seal.


----------



## chifihead

slex said:


> Guess it's a failed product.😊


I wouldn't be so quick to judge. Open back (I.e. Non isolating) headphones are a thing, it's just their uses are limited. 

Non isolating earphones have their uses too, I actually prefer my Sabbat X12 Ultra for when I'm not expecting privacy (washing dishes, reading out in the living room), because I won't miss it if my housemates say hi or whatever. 

The decision to include ANC is super weird because it does nary a thing.. But otherwise it's just an open back model so to speak!


----------



## FYLegend

Don't know how I could have missed this, but buried in the package of the 1More ANC I found an earhook cover that doesn't have earhooks. Now they fit and stay much better in my ears and sound more balanced. The left side still seems a bit brighter but that might just be my hearing/resonance as my Earfun Free Pro seems to be doing the same (but because they're not as resolving, I don't mind it as much). However, they still loosen a bit after prolonged use and fit more poorly if I'm wearing a mask though. Now I'm a bit more inclined to keep them, but I still have a few days to make the decision, especially with 1More Colorbuds Pro on the horizon. The ColorBuds Pro seem to support multipoint, BUT one site mentioned "*Bluetooth LE multi-point*" which might mean that the new multipoint implementation requires your source device to support Bluetooth LE and Bluetooth 5.2...


----------



## HiddenUser (Jan 24, 2021)

helmutcheese said:


> *Here is my Kickstarter Feedback:
> 
> 1)* "H1 Premiums arrive today, set them up and little disappointed to see the same cheap pairing as the Sonics in that they try to auto pair each time they are disconnected from a device so not ideal.
> 
> ...


Could you post the link with user feedback on the Kickstarter website? I would like to see replies from other users with similar issues and, of course, the official response from Soundpeats.

Did you see Ken Tanaka's video? What do you think? Have you tested your H1 with movies and TV programmes?

What other alternatives are there with aptX Adaptive, low latency and good sound and fit (reasonably priced under €100, I cannot afford the Noble Falcon 2, for example)?

Thanks again and good luck with your H1. If you can send them back and get a refund, I recommend it. I could not keep a product with those issues for sure.


----------



## helmutcheese

I watched many YT videos on Sonics and H1's the latency is not an issue with any of the reviews (I already linked someone a review on this topic) if you use aptX as its better than SBC or ACC for latency but if you still get it in movies since there is no aptX-LL now in aptX-Adaptive you can enter Game Mode which is even lower.

I never knew that brand you mentioned, looks similar specs but single driver for a higher price .

* SOUNDPEATS H1: Best Sounding Hybrid Dual-Driver TWS Earbuds by SOUNDPEATS Audio — Kickstarter *


----------



## Canabuc (Jan 24, 2021)

MCPT said:


> Is there anyone who has been able to compare the sound and function of the Nuarl N6 Pro and the CA Melomania Touch?
> 
> I'm focusing on both of these because my primary criteria are:
> 
> ...


JBL don't have ear hook but fit all your other criteria and seem comfortable


----------



## Canabuc

Luchyres said:


> My experience was very similar to yours - I loved them after EQing, and don't mind the weaker ANC. I do wish they filtered for my voice a bit better, but otherwise I'm very sad I lost them and your post is making me think about buying them again - where's the best deal currently?


In Canada  they are 217 or iabout 160 USD rght now but they will only ship in 1 to 4 weeks.

I like the sound of them alot but mine is having an issue with the Qi charging case. It doesn't work on ymchargong pad where all my others do. Seems to work on 1 of 3.
Also feel I need better tips as even the large is not best seal in my right ear. Found another tip that seals better bit it doesn't fit well in case


----------



## CocaCola15

MCPT said:


> Is there anyone who has been able to compare the sound and function of the Nuarl N6 Pro and the CA Melomania Touch?
> 
> I'm focusing on both of these because my primary criteria are:
> 
> ...


I had the N6 Pro and Liberty Pro 2 but returned them. It was awhile go. Unless something goes drastically wrong, I’ll be keeping the MT. Best I can say. The fit and SQ hit the sweet spot, and the FW update appears to have done the job.


----------



## HiddenUser

helmutcheese said:


> I watched many YT videos on Sonics and H1's the latency is not an issue with any of the reviews (I already linked someone a review on this topic) if you use aptX as its better than SBC or ACC for latency but if you still get it in movies since there is no aptX-LL now in aptX-Adaptive you can enter Game Mode which is even lower.
> 
> I never knew that brand you mentioned, looks similar specs but single driver for a higher price .
> 
> * SOUNDPEATS H1: Best Sounding Hybrid Dual-Driver TWS Earbuds by SOUNDPEATS Audio — Kickstarter *


Do you know any other alternatives with aptX Adaptive, low latency, good sound and fit?


----------



## Inear

I just got the JBL Club Pro + and the sound quality is amazing, the bass is on point. ANC I need to try it out when I'm at the gym or go for my run. Anyone recommend any tips for them?


----------



## Canabuc

Inear said:


> I just got the JBL Club Pro + and the sound quality is amazing, the bass is on point. ANC I need to try it out when I'm at the gym or go for my run. Anyone recommend any tips for them?


I am in my testing phase and I do get more snug fit with the spinfit cp360 bit they stick out more. Wondering if a different Spinfit or comply model would be better.

Also can you test yours on a wireless charger? I am having some issues on mine and not sure if it's defective or if it just doesn't play nice with my charger while my other devices do.


----------



## Tommy C

Walmart Canada has the 75t in black or silver certified refurbished for $115 Cad which is about $85. Really good value and it qualifies for their standard return policy.


----------



## Canabuc

Tommy C said:


> Walmart Canada has the 75t in black or silver certified refurbished for $115 Cad which is about $85. Really good value and it qualifies for their standard return policy.


What is the warranty? Are these new? I'm worried about my Jabras 75t and will likely return because they were Amazon warehouse deal so no real warranty. And sound like alot of people have issues with them crapping out in one bud


----------



## bladefd

CocaCola15 said:


> I had the N6 Pro and Liberty Pro 2 but returned them. It was awhile go. Unless something goes drastically wrong, I’ll be keeping the MT. Best I can say. The fit and SQ hit the sweet spot, and the FW update appears to have done the job.



Do you have any other eartips you could try with the MT? I tried the Symbio F, but no good. They are way too big.

I know, I know, don't fix if it's not broken. Still, I would be curious to see how they sound with other tips.


----------



## Tommy C

Canabuc said:


> What is the warranty? Are these new? I'm worried about my Jabras 75t and will likely return because they were Amazon warehouse deal so no real warranty. And sound like alot of people have issues with them crapping out in one bud



Nothing on the Walmart site but according to Jabra’s website certified refurbished are covered for 180 days.


----------



## Canabuc

Tommy C said:


> Nothing on the Walmart site but according to Jabra’s website certified refurbished are covered for 180 days.


I read somewhere if you can have directly and ask if any promotion people are getting them for like 145cdn. If pay 30 for new with 2 year warranty over that.


----------



## Tommy C

Canabuc said:


> I read somewhere if you can have directly and ask if any promotion people are getting them for like 145cdn. If pay 30 for new with 2 year warranty over that.



Having warranty is definitely nice. Have had my Jabra Elite Sport for 3 years now as a daily driver with zero issues.  Just this week I noticed that the battery doesn’t last as long but that’s to be expected I suppose.


----------



## chifihead (Jan 25, 2021)

My Buds Plus just arrived. I've been nervous because I'm spending so much on a TWS (which can't even do AptX, at that!) Previously I only bought cheap TWS (Haylous, QCY, et al) after getting burned by the E12 Ultra.

Play by play:
- It arrived dead. Huh. I tried charging it wirelessly. Took a reaaallly long time to get to ~30%, don't know if this is normal. Probably should've charged it wired but I didn't want to go through the hassle of unplugging-replugging the cable from my quick charger.
- The manual says I have to use an app to pair. Like whaaaa. But okay. Downloaded app. Paired. Updated the firmware.
- The regular sized tips fits me well (I usually use M-sized tips for everything as well except for Acoustune AET08 which I need an L for).
- I don't know what these wingy things do. They don't grip, they don't even touch anything in my ear, they don't seem to achieve anything. I replaced the medium ones with the large ones and now I can't be bothered to switch back. Oh well. The manual says I shouldn't ever wear the buds without the wings on, because then they can go too deep (?). Cool cool cool.
- Fit is perfect. Or rather, no complaints. I don't really like the tips, they're a bit small and needs jamming in to really get a seal. (I tried the larger one, didn't really help, so I switched back to regs). The body of the buds (?) is huge, fat, round, but doesn't pose a problem.
- Sound was bassy. Midbassy. The upper frequencies are tame, making for a dark sound. The reviews say the Buds Plus are brighter than the OG Buds. Man, these are dark, I can't imagine what the OG Buds sound like.
- Played with the app and found the EQ. The "Dynamic" one is fun and lively (V-shaped, it sounds like the default EQ with the upper frequencies boosted?). The "Clear" one is pretty neutral (like the default with reduced bass). The "Treble boost" one is basically the Clear one with the upper frequencies boosted. I can imagine using these three and switching between them according to mood. If I have to choose my favorite I'd choose the "Clear," but then again it's only been ~45 minutes. We'll see. We shall see. The rest (including the default EQ) are useless to me.
To be honest I didn't expect to find the EQ this good. Previously preset EQs have always been rubbish. Good on you, Samsung!
- The hearthrough mode is.. rubbish. Or maybe my expectations were too high. It does let you hear what happens around you but in this tinny, old-radio sound. After a while it just started hissing, and I couldn't find any real sound which it can reproduce as a hiss. Turned it off and I don't think I'll ever turn it on again.
- It took me a long time to write this, and by the time I get to this part the rear part of my ear is starting to ache. I'm switching back to regular-sized wings.
- Alright, I'm switching to Youtube now. The delay is virtually zero. Netflix, likewise.

All in all, I'm really satisfied with the Buds Plus. I bought it blind, only relying on reviews, and with skepticism that a household name (Samsung) can create something good.. and color me pleasantly surprised. I should've considered this an AKG product, not a Samsung product I guess.

The sound reminds me of the moondrop trio (KPE, Starfield, KXXS), though the "Clear" EQ reminds me more of the KPE. It's definitely a popular tuning. The EQs are also a hoot.
I'm itching to replace the tips because I believe I can get a tighter sound with better tips.. but we'll see.

Is it worth the asking price? Not if you're only looking for sound quality. Yes if you're looking for the convenience of a TWS. I haven't tried the Tevi but I reckon I'll still vote for the Buds Plus due to the EQ.

Edit: if you're using Android, the app Galaxy Wearables have a couple of widgets. One to monitor the battery life, the other houses quick toggles for hearthrough and "block touches." My qualify of life has increased 70% by blocking touches.


----------



## bronco1015

dweaver said:


> Anyone try the Audiofly AFT2? The shape seems similar to the MT. No app but the price seems fairly reasonable but not many reviews out there. The one review I did see I think the guy liked them as much as the cheaper Sennheiser TWS can't remember model name...


To my ears the upper mids and treble were a bit harsh, especially the upper mids. other than that i liked what i heard from the default sound.


----------



## bronco1015

rhsauer said:


> I received the Soundcore Life Dot 2 NC yesterday from Walmart.  I think these are the same earphones as the Soundcore Life A2 NC, which are now available on Amazon, with only cosmetic differences (e.g., the color of the control button is black on mine, but grey on the A2s).  Specs are otherwise identical, and both cost $79.
> 
> For the price, these are a really easy choice.  They are, hands down, the most comfortable earphones I've ever worn -- it's seriously easy to forget you're wearing them.  They are extremely light and rest largely outside the ear (like the Liberty 2 Pros) and are held in place with a small fin (three size choices included) -- but they're small enough so they don't protrude much.  They have 11mm dynamic drivers that really pump out the bass and, overall, have a smooth consumer-oriented sound.  The sound quality is not _quite_ on par with the higher end Soundcores or the Jabra 75t (or, certainly, the 85t) -- and while these might not be the earphones I'd pick to sit in an easy chair and listen (that would be my MTWs), they have a great "walking around" sound that's also perfect for watching video.
> 
> ...


This could just be an issue with the pair i got, but yes calls sound great, but so did everything in the background. TV, kids playing etc. These are sneaky good over all though. Glad someone else has enjoyed using them.


----------



## Luchyres

Canabuc said:


> I am in my testing phase and I do get more snug fit with the spinfit cp360 bit they stick out more. Wondering if a different Spinfit or comply model would be better.
> 
> Also can you test yours on a wireless charger? I am having some issues on mine and not sure if it's defective or if it just doesn't play nice with my charger while my other devices do.



When I had mine, I did find that one of the tips (Xelastics MS) wouldn't fit in the case, but I had a good fit with 1 M and 1 L Spinfit CP360 IIRC. 

Mine did work on my "Yootech" qi chargers (3) but it does have to placed dead center for the coil to engage, I found, and wouldn't engage as well if off on the side. Also, you probably know this, but the case lays on it's back (not the USB port), so I'd always be careful setting it so I could see the charge light engage on the bottom of case and make sure it was in the right position. But, I guess this is all to say, I don't think yours is bad, but it may be touchy re-qi charging. If it won't stay charging - make sure it's not full already (it charged v quick for me) and otherwise if you still have probs I'd return 'em. (or send to me!) lol


----------



## vladzakhar

bladefd said:


> Do you have any other eartips you could try with the MT? I tried the Symbio F, but no good. They are way too big.
> 
> I know, I know, don't fix if it's not broken. Still, I would be curious to see how they sound with other tips.


I am using the Jabra's 75t tips on MT and it's give me better seal and isolation and they fit in the case just fine.


----------



## Inear (Jan 25, 2021)

Canabuc said:


> I am in my testing phase and I do get more snug fit with the spinfit cp360 bit they stick out more. Wondering if a different Spinfit or comply model would be better.
> 
> Also can you test yours on a wireless charger? I am having some issues on mine and not sure if it's defective or if it just doesn't play nice with my charger while my other devices do.



Are you able to close the case without any issues?

Thanks. I didn't even check out the wireless charging, will do tonight after work.


----------



## clerkpalmer

Anyone jumping in on the Earin? Available today. Not much in the way of reviews. A couple folks on Reddit said they don’t fit well. I like the diminutive size but seems like they don’t really offer anything unique or groundbreaking.


----------



## Luchyres

clerkpalmer said:


> Anyone jumping in on the Earin? Available today. Not much in the way of reviews. A couple folks on Reddit said they don’t fit well. I like the diminutive size but seems like they don’t really offer anything unique or groundbreaking.


I like the idea of the big driver, but otherwise I'd really need to see some stellar reviews to pick up. I'm much more a fan of the sealing design of IEMs than the openness of the airpods, Buds Live, or even the Jabra 85t. 

Thus far, though I really want the best for Earin, this doesn't look like a buy for me.


----------



## clerkpalmer

Luchyres said:


> I like the idea of the big driver, but otherwise I'd really need to see some stellar reviews to pick up. I'm much more a fan of the sealing design of IEMs than the openness of the airpods, Buds Live, or even the Jabra 85t.
> 
> Thus far, though I really want the best for Earin, this doesn't look like a buy for me.


My gut tells me these are a pass as well. I do like the open design but some reports state that mids and bass are low unless you press them in so that’s a red flag. Cool form factor but I’m going to hold out.


----------



## erockg

clerkpalmer said:


> Anyone jumping in on the Earin? Available today. Not much in the way of reviews. A couple folks on Reddit said they don’t fit well. I like the diminutive size but seems like they don’t really offer anything unique or groundbreaking.


Yep.  I pulled the trigger.  I've had all the Earin generations and I like to support the indie companies like this.  We shall see.  Hope they are good.


----------



## Luchyres

erockg said:


> Yep.  I pulled the trigger.  I've had all the Earin generations and I like to support the indie companies like this.  We shall see.  Hope they are good.


 I hope they're awesome and that I get to see your impressions posted here in a week or two!  Good luck!


----------



## CocaCola15 (Jan 25, 2021)

bladefd said:


> Do you have any other eartips you could try with the MT? I tried the Symbio F, but no good. They are way too big.
> 
> I know, I know, don't fix if it's not broken. Still, I would be curious to see how they sound with other tips.


Honestly, I am good with the large tips from CA. I loved the CA foam tips that came with the Melomania 1, but that sound tube is massive compared to the Touch, so no good. But no, I have tons of tips here on hand from my years of IEM purchases, but have not tried any of them. My main reason is that they would affect the case charging process. But maybe I will try out a pair of Complys, just for kicks.

Meantime, I listened to the MTs for two hours this morning, flawless connectivity, connected right away with my iPhone 8+. And they sounded spectacular to me, in all genres I tried. So they will be keepers, I hope. The Status Audio Between Pro ANC buds are arriving today (so says the USPS Informed Delivery app), so can't wait to compare them to the MT. I will use both if they both sound equal, though the Between Pro buds have ANC and are triple driver models, so there is that. Either way, two nice pair of BT phones based on stellar SQ for about $220. Works for me.


----------



## jant71 (Jan 25, 2021)

clerkpalmer said:


> Anyone jumping in on the Earin? Available today. Not much in the way of reviews. A couple folks on Reddit said they don’t fit well. I like the diminutive size but seems like they don’t really offer anything unique or groundbreaking.



An early adopter, since they would be getting the word of mouth out, discount code would have been nice. Also more than a 14 day trial might be nice. Small is nice but that means 5 hour battery life for $200. No too hard to resist these.


----------



## Dregur

CocaCola15 said:


> Honestly, I am good with the large tips from CA. I loved the CA foam tips that came with the Melomania 1, but that sound tube is massive compared to the Touch, so no good. But no, I have tons of tips here on hand from my years of IEM purchases, but have not tried any of them. My main reason is that they would affect the case charging process. But maybe I will try out a pair of Complys, just for kicks.
> 
> Meantime, I listened to the MTs for two hours this morning, flawless connectivity, connected right away with my iPhone 8+. And they sounded spectacular to me, in all genres I tried. So they will be keepers, I hope. The Status Audio Between Pro ANC buds are arriving today (so says the USPS Informed Delivery app), so can't wait to compare them to the MT. I will use both if they both sound equal, though the Between Pro buds have ANC and are triple driver models, so there is that. Either way, two nice pair of BT phones based on stellar SQ for about $220. Works for me.



 I don't think the Between Pro have ANC.


----------



## CocaCola15 (Jan 25, 2021)

Dregur said:


> I don't think the Between Pro have ANC.


Oops. To quote Rick in Casablanca, "I was misinformed." (Actually I was projecting, I guess). But no matter, for me that's not a prerequisite for BT in-ears, since I use them mainly walking and well-fit IEMs seem to do the trick re external noise.

Looking forward to hearing them after a full charge.


----------



## Dregur

vladzakhar said:


> I am using the Jabra's 75t tips on MT and it's give me better seal and isolation and they fit in the case just fine.



I have some spinfit that seem to fit. Makes the bass disappear, and everything tinny. I also have some foams that I got for some Galaxy Buds +, and it makes everything sound boomy. I actually really like the silicon tips that came with the MT.


----------



## MCPT

Canabuc said:


> JBL don't have ear hook but fit all your other criteria and seem comfortable



Thanks for the suggestion.  If fins/wings weren't such a preference of mine, the JBL would be a top contender.


----------



## MCPT (Jan 25, 2021)

CocaCola15 said:


> I had the N6 Pro and Liberty Pro 2 but returned them. It was awhile go. Unless something goes drastically wrong, I’ll be keeping the MT. Best I can say. The fit and SQ hit the sweet spot, and the FW update appears to have done the job.



Thanks for the feedback! 

I'm glad that you've found the latest update has ironed out many of the software issues.  It helps to know that you've tried the Nuarl N6P and don't feel like you're missing out on the sound quality.  I'm hoping the CA Touch meet my needs as they have aspects to them that the N6P are lacking (EQ in the app, pass through and potentially increased bass response).


----------



## Remiam7

Been listening to my Earin A3’s since last Wednesday and I like them more then anything else I have used  since 2013 or so.  Never had an open design, but used to it now.  The fit does take a little adjusting to get right for your ears.  Do have to turn up the volume a bit more than i would normally.  Don’t listen at high volume with any of my IEM’s or wireless earbuds though.  They do seem to have a bigger sound or perhaps volume of sound is what I have getting at, if that makes any sense.  I sure would compare the sound quality to some of my IEM’s, wether using Amazon Prime HD or my Sony ZX300.  I like the idea of no tips as I listen for hours at a time every day, and it doesn’t seem to take that many hours of listening before needing to remove IEM’s or other wireless earbuds because of mild irritation.  So far battery has been at about 5 hours of stated 5.5 hours, but no problem for me.  Would probably compare them to Apple’s AirPod Pro’s that I had been using, but with much bigger sound quality all around.  Better bass, more detailed mids, and treble about the same.  They don’t compare to my Bragi Starkey Dash, but that is to be expected I think.  I am completely satisfied with purchasing these and will be my first goto of each day.  I did suggest to Earin about designing some silicone sleeves, but only for a more secure fit.  Maybe something having the texture of my azla Sedna xelastic ear tips would be ideal.


----------



## Canabuc

Luchyres said:


> When I had mine, I did find that one of the tips (Xelastics MS) wouldn't fit in the case, but I had a good fit with 1 M and 1 L Spinfit CP360 IIRC.
> 
> Mine did work on my "Yootech" qi chargers (3) but it does have to placed dead center for the coil to engage, I found, and wouldn't engage as well if off on the side. Also, you probably know this, but the case lays on it's back (not the USB port), so I'd always be careful setting it so I could see the charge light engage on the bottom of case and make sure it was in the right position. But, I guess this is all to say, I don't think yours is bad, but it may be touchy re-qi charging. If it won't stay charging - make sure it's not full already (it charged v quick for me) and otherwise if you still have probs I'd return 'em. (or send to me!) lol


Thanks for the info. I tried the case on every square inch. It starts charging then 10 seconds later the charger light starts blinking and the charger light on the case turns off. It's as if there is a communication issue.
Too bad I do really like the sound. Easily on par with XM3 for me.
But it suffers a few weakness I will test out more but might have to return.

ANC is useless. I haven't tested thoroughly but my bathroom ceing fan is completely blocked out with Sony Jabra and Samsung. JBL made zero difference.
Will try some other scenarios but that is a concern as I can spend less and get a good set of earbuds without ANC. And my L2P sound as good when EQ'd right.

Other issue is by setting controls for track and volume thee is no way to turn on ambient sound or ANC without going into phone. This was same issue as Sony.

So far only the Jabras can do it and even they cripes it going from.75 to85 as now the off toggle isn't on the buds.

Would be easy to fix in firmware but I'm worried about JBL not supporting these. They are sold out on their site. They have announced the tour + coming out in may which do everything these do and more.

So far the Jabra 85t are best all around bud I've tested when considering sound quality followed by features and comfort and I got for 170$US. I ordered some Spinfit 1025 tips and some tips meant for freebuds pro that should also work on them that are foam. If I can get a slightly more secure fit for workouts they will be near perfect.
Only buds that sound better to me (and not by much) have been the XM3 and JBL. L2P sound a bit more dynamic butbpeefer the warmer natural sound of 85t.


----------



## Canabuc

Just a heads up the Sennheiser CX400BT on sale for 100$. No high end features but apparently same sound as MTW2 at nearly a 1/3 the price


----------



## faithguy19

Canabuc said:


> Just a heads up the Sennheiser CX400BT on sale for 100$. No high end features but apparently same sound as MTW2 at nearly a 1/3 the price


Does anyone know if these really do sound the same as the MTW2 minus the noise cancellation, etc.?


----------



## Canabuc

faithguy19 said:


> Does anyone know if these really do sound the same as the MTW2 minus the noise cancellation, etc.?


Reviews all say sound is exactly same touch controls and app same otherwise cx400 has no IP rating no ambient mode or ANC


----------



## Sound Eq

Hi everyone, this thread has alot of info, can anyone tell me what is the best TWS no matter its price, I care more about sound quality than ANC and other features, so sound quality should have the priority than other features


----------



## Sam L

Canabuc said:


> Just a heads up the Sennheiser CX400BT on sale for 100$. No high end features but apparently same sound as MTW2 at nearly a 1/3 the price


thanks for the heads up!


----------



## clerkpalmer

Remiam7 said:


> Been listening to my Earin A3’s since last Wednesday and I like them more then anything else I have used  since 2013 or so.  Never had an open design, but used to it now.  The fit does take a little adjusting to get right for your ears.  Do have to turn up the volume a bit more than i would normally.  Don’t listen at high volume with any of my IEM’s or wireless earbuds though.  They do seem to have a bigger sound or perhaps volume of sound is what I have getting at, if that makes any sense.  I sure would compare the sound quality to some of my IEM’s, wether using Amazon Prime HD or my Sony ZX300.  I like the idea of no tips as I listen for hours at a time every day, and it doesn’t seem to take that many hours of listening before needing to remove IEM’s or other wireless earbuds because of mild irritation.  So far battery has been at about 5 hours of stated 5.5 hours, but no problem for me.  Would probably compare them to Apple’s AirPod Pro’s that I had been using, but with much bigger sound quality all around.  Better bass, more detailed mids, and treble about the same.  They don’t compare to my Bragi Starkey Dash, but that is to be expected I think.  I am completely satisfied with purchasing these and will be my first goto of each day.  I did suggest to Earin about designing some silicone sleeves, but only for a more secure fit.  Maybe something having the texture of my azla Sedna xelastic ear tips would be ideal.


Thanks - so you think they sound bigger and more full than the APP?  I find the APP to have decent balanced sound overall - if a bit thin.  As far as Bragi Dash, I'm surprised the battery still charges in those ...


----------



## CocaCola15

Spent a couple of hours with the Status Audio Between Pros, purchased on Indiegogo for $79. Fantastic bargain, but only if one of the three tip sizes work for you. I started with the ones that came on the phones. Sounded thin. I was thinking uh-oh. Moved to the largest pair of tips and voila! Balanced, crisp clean and detailed sound, expected from a triple driver IEM, BT or not. Comfort is fantastic and I am a big fan of no touch controls, using the small tactile button instead. So if you need to change position, fix insertion, etc., no accidental pause, etc. They do look odd, for sure, but that's a minor issue to me. So for now, a very good purchase. On par with for sound quality with the CA Melomania Touch. Happy to have both.

Caveat: The sound tube on the Between Pro is slightly oval, not round. So not sure how other tips will work, but going to check that out at some point. Figure you can still get round on oval because ear tip materials are flexible. And it should seal fine. For now, happy with the large OEM silicone.


----------



## Knightsfan11

faithguy19 said:


> Does anyone know if these really do sound the same as the MTW2 minus the noise cancellation, etc.?


They have the same acoustical system & same 7mm dynamic drivers as the MTW2. 

The MOMENTUM True Wireless 2 adds enhanced features such as ANC & Transparent Hearing, smart pause, IPX4 splash resistance, MOMENTUM craftmanship and a 28-hour battery life, compared to 20 hours for the CX 400BT True Wireless.


----------



## bladefd

CocaCola15 said:


> Spent a couple of hours with the Status Audio Between Pros, purchased on Indiegogo for $79. Fantastic bargain, but only if one of the three tip sizes work for you. I started with the ones that came on the phones. Sounded thin. I was thinking uh-oh. Moved to the largest pair of tips and voila! Balanced, crisp clean and detailed sound, expected from a triple driver IEM, BT or not. Comfort is fantastic and I am a big fan of no touch controls, using the small tactile button instead. So if you need to change position, fix insertion, etc., no accidental pause, etc. They do look odd, for sure, but that's a minor issue to me. So for now, a very good purchase. On par with for sound quality with the CA Melomania Touch. Happy to have both.
> 
> Caveat: The sound tube on the Between Pro is slightly oval, not round. So not sure how other tips will work, but going to check that out at some point. Figure you can still get round on oval because ear tip materials are flexible. And it should seal fine. For now, happy with the large OEM silicone.



Is there an app for it with EQ?


----------



## erockg

clerkpalmer said:


> Thanks - so you think they sound bigger and more full than the APP?  I find the APP to have decent balanced sound overall - if a bit thin.  As far as Bragi Dash, I'm surprised the battery still charges in those ...


Man, I truly miss my Bragi Dash Pros...


----------



## erockg

During a week of wild hair headphone purchases, I got the UE Fits.  Took a day to get them to me. I must say, the fit really is great.  I forget I'm wearing them.  Simple controls.  Case is small.  About the size of my APP with their leather Nomad case.  Buds are small.  Sound is decent.  Soundstage is wider than the APP for sure.  They sound much better than my APP IMO.


----------



## Tommy C

Knightsfan11 said:


> They have the same acoustical system & same 7mm dynamic drivers as the MTW2.
> 
> The MOMENTUM True Wireless 2 adds enhanced features such as ANC & Transparent Hearing, smart pause, IPX4 splash resistance, MOMENTUM craftmanship and a 28-hour battery life, compared to 20 hours for the CX 400BT True Wireless.



$100 for the Senn sound quality that’s a great deal on the CX 400BT


----------



## Canabuc

Tommy C said:


> $100 for the Senn sound quality that’s a great deal on the CX 400BT


If I didn't already have the L2P I would jump on it but I want ambient sound and ANC and buds to exercise so IP rating. But if I was buying buds instead of headphones just for the music then these would be great choice


----------



## Remiam7

clerkpalmer said:


> Thanks - so you think they sound bigger and more full than the APP?  I find the APP to have decent balanced sound overall - if a bit thin.  As far as Bragi Dash, I'm surprised the battery still charges in those ...



I think the A3 definantly puts out much more sound just because of the 13.5mm driver within a smaller  enclosure than the APP.  That being said, just like the APP the A3 doesn’t go deep enough into the ear to take advantage of a superior sound quality.  I do believe I have come up with a simple solution to this problem without using any form of sleeve that may be created.  Will be working on it over the next day or so to see if I am correct.  

As for the Bragi Dash, my KS edition now only get a little over 2hrs per use.  My Starkey Dash are still going strong at 5hrs per use.


----------



## tinyman392

erockg said:


> During a week of wild hair headphone purchases, I got the UE Fits.  Took a day to get them to me. I must say, the fit really is great.  I forget I'm wearing them.  Simple controls.  Case is small.  About the size of my APP with their leather Nomad case.  Buds are small.  Sound is decent.  Soundstage is wider than the APP for sure.  They sound much better than my APP IMO.



The more I listened to the Fits the more I enjoyed them.  They certainly are preferred over the APP IMO.  The issue I have with the Fits is the lack of control.  A single control per side simply isn't great when the APP has skip, back, play/pause + one additional per side with auto-pause (remove one to pause).  The Fits are very comfortable and do disappear from your ears.  Though they don't offer much passive isolation.


----------



## chifihead

Canabuc said:


> Just a heads up the Sennheiser CX400BT on sale for 100$. No high end features but apparently same sound as MTW2 at nearly a 1/3 the price


Oh wow.. they're being sold for $250 here in Indonesia! 

It means they're only $30 cheaper than the MTW2 here, which is weird..


----------



## bladefd

faithguy19 said:


> Does anyone know if these really do sound the same as the MTW2 minus the noise cancellation, etc.?



My review/comparisons of cx400bt:
Going fully Wireless IEMs. Too soon? Or are we there yet? | Page 1842 | Headphone Reviews and Discussion - Head-Fi.org (head-fi.org)
Going fully Wireless IEMs. Too soon? Or are we there yet? | Page 1870 | Headphone Reviews and Discussion - Head-Fi.org (head-fi.org) 

I ended up returning them because I had fit issues. I chose Sony wf-1000xm3 over it. Then I chose the Melomania Touch over the Sony. I'm probably keeping the Melomania Touch


----------



## bladefd

tinyman392 said:


> The more I listened to the Fits the more I enjoyed them.  They certainly are preferred over the APP IMO.  The issue I have with the Fits is the lack of control.  A single control per side simply isn't great when the APP has skip, back, play/pause + one additional per side with auto-pause (remove one to pause).  The Fits are very comfortable and do disappear from your ears.  Though they don't offer much passive isolation.



I would love to get the fits too, but $250 is beyond my budget. The best I can afford to spend in $200, and that's already past my $175 budget. =[


----------



## tinyman392

bladefd said:


> I would love to get the fits too, but $250 is beyond my budget. The best I can afford to spend in $200, and that's already past my $175 budget. =[



They are a tad pricey.  To be honest, I'm still more likely to put more use in my APP over my Fits simply due to the fact that I get far better control on the APP. The Fits do sound better and fit much better, but its lack of control is an Achilles heal IMO.


----------



## erockg

bladefd said:


> I would love to get the fits too, but $250 is beyond my budget. The best I can afford to spend in $200, and that's already past my $175 budget. =[


There are 10% off coupons out there.  Google is your friend 😉


----------



## DigDub

Found some spinfit cp100 tips and they improve the fit and sound of the buds pro. Does not interfere with the case charging and closing as well.


----------



## Newguyuk

Please can i ask did the recent firmware update in the Melomania Touch improve call quality or is this issue  not fixable because it’s hardware related
 thanks


----------



## CocaCola15 (Jan 27, 2021)

bladefd said:


> Is there an app for it with EQ?


No. I use the EQ on my two music apps for the Between Pro.


----------



## jant71 (Jan 27, 2021)

Philips TAT3265. IPX4, BT5.2, dual mics, 13mm drivers, SBC/AAC/AptX. ~$120

Also a new Final...


The TWS08R is characterized by its compact size, which is the smallest and lightest in the series. Black/CREAM/BLUE is adopted for the main body color. It is compatible with life waterproof IPX4, and it appeals that it can be used with confidence even in sudden weather changes.



「TWS08R」 BLUE

It is said that the main body adopted a shape that fits tightly in the pocket part "Aero-kai" around the ear hole. Final's "TYPE E Fully Wireless Specification" earpiece is also included as standard, realizing high sound insulation and comfortable fitting.

This model is also fully supervised by final, and he explains that he has won "a sound that combines bouncy heavy bass with clear vocals". The playback frequency band is 20Hz - 20kHz, the communication method is Bluetooth 5.0 compliant, the codec is SBC/AAC/aptX, and the profile is A2DP/AVRCP/HSP/HFP.

The continuous music playback time is up to 7 hours (up to 28 hours including case), and the battery capacity is 40 mAh on one side of the earphone / 300 mAh in the case. The earpiece "final TYPE E fully wireless exclusive specification" comes with SS / S / M / L size, and also comes with a cable for USB type C charging. ~$75.


----------



## DRuM

I've just bought a pair of Mpow M30, should be here Saturday. I'm hoping they're close to the quality of either of my TFZ or ibasso wired buds. Can't see it really as my wired buds have 9mm and 10mm drivers and the M30 I think has only 6mm drivers.


----------



## faithguy19

tinyman392 said:


> They are a tad pricey.  To be honest, I'm still more likely to put more use in my APP over my Fits simply due to the fact that I get far better control on the APP. The Fits do sound better and fit much better, but its lack of control is an Achilles heal IMO.





tinyman392 said:


> The more I listened to the Fits the more I enjoyed them.  They certainly are preferred over the APP IMO.  The issue I have with the Fits is the lack of control.  A single control per side simply isn't great when the APP has skip, back, play/pause + one additional per side with auto-pause (remove one to pause).  The Fits are very comfortable and do disappear from your ears.  Though they don't offer much passive isolation.



This has been my assessment as well.  I thoroughly enjoy the sound and comfort of the UE Fits but I am frustrated by the lack of controls.


----------



## tinyman392

faithguy19 said:


> This has been my assessment as well.  I thoroughly enjoy the sound and comfort of the UE Fits but I am frustrated by the lack of controls.



Their double-tap functionality takes a little while to learn how to do right too.  To be honest, I know a lot of companies are trying to get fancy with control structures, but just use a normal button; there's nothing wrong with that.  Heck Apple moved back to a normal button(-like) control and the AirPods are far better for it.


----------



## Canabuc

DigDub said:


> Found some spinfit cp100 tips and they improve the fit and sound of the buds pro. Does not interfere with the case charging and closing as well.


I tried the cp360 and cp1025 on them and neither quite are right on the buds.  Aren't the 100 a bit long or deep?
At this point I am going to return mine solely on fit reasons.
So  leaves me with Jabra or possibly try another JBL if the case works better with wireless charger

Or should I just go for the MTW2. It is about 75$ more than I like to spend on tws but if they are that great sounding with full contest good ANC and battery and sufficient for and comfort for working out.....

Also could get the Devialet Gemini for 20 more than the MTW2 is that a better choice?

I have literally tried 8 different tws hoping to find best combo of sound comfort and functionality. The best sounding buds usually fail in comfort for me and to a lesser extent functionality.

Jabra 85t is the closest but the treble detail and the tightness of the bass not quite there with XM3 or buds pro despite there being more bass than either.


----------



## DigDub

Canabuc said:


> I tried the cp360 and cp1025 on them and neither quite are right on the buds.  Aren't the 100 a bit long or deep?
> At this point I am going to return mine solely on fit reasons.
> So  leaves me with Jabra or possibly try another JBL if the case works better with wireless charger
> 
> ...


I tried the cp360 and the cp1025 too, they are too short due to the short nozzle on the buds pro. The buds pro need long tips to work. The cp100 (not the z version) is perfect for the buds pro. The buds pro ranks in the top 3 on terms of sound quality for me now. The fit is also much more comfortable with the cp100 tips.


----------



## Punslayer

jant71 said:


> Also a new Final...



Your link goes to a report from the Adult VR show, which is probably not what you intended.  Here's a link to the Final and Ag product info:

https://av.watch.impress.co.jp/docs/news/1302621.html


----------



## Sam L

DigDub said:


> Found some spinfit cp100 tips and they improve the fit and sound of the buds pro. Does not interfere with the case charging and closing as well.


nice! I am a big fan of trying third party tips on TWS earphones. Problem is many of the cases to not have room to accommodate.  I should be getting my galaxy buds pros this afternoon along with my s21 phone upgrade.

The Jabra 85t's can rock the RHA dual flange tips and have enough clearance in the case.


----------



## Sam L

DRuM said:


> Hi guys. Can any of you kindly recommend me buds around £40 to £50? My mate has been telling me how good the Boltune BT-BH024 is. Are they the best sound quality for their price or is there better? I'd like some that stay secure in the ears while jogging, preferably with warmth close to my wired ibasso ITO1 sound rather than bright and fatiguing (like my TFZ Exclusive 3), volume control and track skip, and either touch, or if they're buttons, a nice easy press without making the ear feel uncomfortable.  Thanks.


I had the ibasso it01 before it was stolen. 

I keep coming back to TWS earphones every 3 or 4 months only to find that, despite the gap getting narrower, they don't compete with wired iems at all. I just got the penon fan in. I'm convinced that no TWS is even close to the sound quality of the Fan. But TWS fans (pun intended) value mobility and freedom from wires, so I recognize in that use case wired IEMs are not a fit for many of us in this thread.


----------



## Canabuc

DigDub said:


> I tried the cp360 and the cp1025 too, they are too short due to the short nozzle on the buds pro. The buds pro need long tips to work. The cp100 (not the z version) is perfect for the buds pro. The buds pro ranks in the top 3 on terms of sound quality for me now. The fit is also much more comfortable with the cp100 tips.


Problem for me is not knowing if I need medium or large. The cp360 had both sizes.


----------



## Canabuc

Sam L said:


> nice! I am a big fan of trying third party tips on TWS earphones. Problem is many of the cases to not have room to accommodate.  I should be getting my galaxy buds pros this afternoon along with my s21 phone upgrade.
> 
> The Jabra 85t's can rock the RHA dual flange tips and have enough clearance in the case.


Do those tips have any wax guards? The 85t don't have one but rely on one being in the tip


----------



## Sam L

Canabuc said:


> Do those tips have any wax guards? The 85t don't have one but rely on one being in the tip


No, they don't. I'm blessed with dry, flaky wax. 
Regardless, these tips are supple enough to be able to easy maintain a clear bore. The comfort and isolation with the double flange silicon tips are excellent.


----------



## kolbo

The Devialet Geminis sound great with Spiral Dots tips! I was looking through my old tips bag and decided to try. Comfortable, sound great, great seal and fit in the case.


----------



## Canabuc

Sam L said:


> No, they don't. I'm blessed with dry, flaky wax.
> Regardless, these tips are supple enough to be able to easy maintain a clear bore. The comfort and isolation with the double flange silicon tips are excellent.


Where can I get them? Didn't see on Amazon canada


----------



## clerkpalmer

Canabuc said:


> Where can I get them? Didn't see on Amazon canada


Crutchfield or Devialet.


----------



## Canabuc

clerkpalmer said:


> Crutchfield or Devialet.


The ear tips or the Devialet buds?
Also anyone compare the Devialet Gemini to the MTW2?
I think I might just bite the bullet on price if sound comfort and features are top notch on one of the 2


----------



## kolbo

Canabuc said:


> The ear tips or the Devialet buds?
> Also anyone compare the Devialet Gemini to the MTW2?
> I think I might just bite the bullet on price if sound comfort and features are top notch on one of the 2


I would wait on the Gemini until they resolve the issues. I live with it because I also have the 85t and I like the sound a lot, but you never know if they will connect, or if they will disconnect when put in the case.


----------



## clerkpalmer

Canabuc said:


> The ear tips or the Devialet buds?
> Also anyone compare the Devialet Gemini to the MTW2?
> I think I might just bite the bullet on price if sound comfort and features are top notch on one of the 2


Lol. The buds. I own both. It’s close but I prefer the Devialet. The MTW is too warm for my liking. The Devialet is v shaped but they do a good job controlling the bass so it doesn’t bleed into the mids. They sound more dynamic and exciting to me. The ANC is also light years ahead.


----------



## Canabuc

erockg said:


> Had a wild hair and picked up the Devialet Gemini.  Zero issues so far outside of that it took me three tried to update the right earbud but it did work.  I must say, the sound is just sick.  Wide soundstage and a more lively than my MTW2's.  Bass hits hard.  Still having issues with finding the right earbud tips.  Case isn't as large as I thought it would be.  No volume controls.  Really hope they add them with a firmware update.  ANC is very very good.  Up there with the Sennies as long as you have a great seal.


Where did you buy and how much? Debating them vs MTW2. Price withing 25$ for me.


----------



## Canabuc

kolbo said:


> I would wait on the Gemini until they resolve the issues. I live with it because I also have the 85t and I like the sound a lot, but you never know if they will connect, or if they will disconnect when put in the case.


If I may ask why own both them and the Jabra? Currently have 85t and they seem like the best compromise earbud for comfort sound and feature. But having heard the detail in the treble on the new Samsung and the XM3 I am wanting better sound without compromising much.

Options at a cost are the MTW2 or the Geminis.
The JBL sound great too bit ANC was basically nonexistent and think they don't work with my wireless charger.


----------



## Canabuc

clerkpalmer said:


> Lol. The buds. I own both. It’s close but I prefer the Devialet. The MTW is too warm for my liking. The Devialet is v shaped but they do a good job controlling the bass so it doesn’t bleed into the mids. They sound more dynamic and exciting to me. The ANC is also light years ahead.


What is best price you have seen the Devialet? In Canada they sell for 400 or around 300 ISD. One store has them for 374 after coupon. Sennheiser 350 for me.


----------



## erockg

Canabuc said:


> Where did you buy and how much? Debating them vs MTW2. Price withing 25$ for me.


The Devialet Gemini?  Amazon US.  You can also get them off Devialet's website.  Few app bugs but nothing that makes me return them.  The sound is sick.  Switched the stock tips to some Spinfits I had.  The stock tips were making noise when going for walks outside.


----------



## erockg

kolbo said:


> I would wait on the Gemini until they resolve the issues. I live with it because I also have the 85t and I like the sound a lot, but you never know if they will connect, or if they will disconnect when put in the case.


I've had the disconnect problem too.  Usually just open and close the case and that shuts them off.  This could be another MTW first gen type of issue.  Sad but true.


----------



## Tommy C

Most reviewers agreed that the Devialet sounds good however the software is glitchy AF. Big investment for a half-baked product.


----------



## erockg

Tommy C said:


> Most reviewers agreed that the Devialet sounds good however the software is glitchy AF. Big investment for a half-baked product.


I'd say they're 90-95% baked.  The ANC is awesome and the sound is phenomenal.  The soundstage and the bass drum hits with the Dynamic setting blows my head off.  That said, I listen to some heavy stuff.  I've had so many of the high end TWE that these have really amazed me.  No idea how they made them sound so good.  I rarely get any disconnects.  If any at all.  Touch sensor works great for me.  Wish they had volume controls on them but not a big deal.  All just my opinion.  If you can take them for a test drive from a store with a great return policy, I highly recommend.  Amazon all the way for me.


----------



## DRuM

Sam L said:


> I had the ibasso it01 before it was stolen.
> 
> I keep coming back to TWS earphones every 3 or 4 months only to find that, despite the gap getting narrower, they don't compete with wired iems at all. I just got the penon fan in. I'm convinced that no TWS is even close to the sound quality of the Fan. But TWS fans (pun intended) value mobility and freedom from wires, so I recognize in that use case wired IEMs are not a fit for many of us in this thread.



Well, I've got some TWS coming in a couple of days. Mpow m30. They were recommended by someone on here who said they sound as good as much more expensive buds he has. However, they've got 6mm drivers and cost £28, and my IT01 have 10mm and cost 3x times as much at the time, so I'm not holding my breath for particularly enjoyable sound but we'll see. Sorry to hear about your stolen ibasso!


----------



## kolbo

Canabuc said:


> If I may ask why own both them and the Jabra? Currently have 85t and they seem like the best compromise earbud for comfort sound and feature. But having heard the detail in the treble on the new Samsung and the XM3 I am wanting better sound without compromising much.
> 
> Options at a cost are the MTW2 or the Geminis.
> The JBL sound great too bit ANC was basically nonexistent and think they don't work with my wireless charger.


I agree that the 85t is the best all-around. I just love the sound of the Gemini. They are not as comfortable but not bad. 
I’m really hoping they can fix the issues with a firmware update. 
Walking around the house, cooking etc. I use the 85t. I can wear them for hours. 
late at night cleaning listening to music I use the Geminis. I’m more relaxed and can appreciate the sound.


----------



## Tommy C

erockg said:


> I'd say they're 90-95% baked.  The ANC is awesome and the sound is phenomenal.  The soundstage and the bass drum hits with the Dynamic setting blows my head off.  That said, I listen to some heavy stuff.  I've had so many of the high end TWE that these have really amazed me.  No idea how they made them sound so good.  I rarely get any disconnects.  If any at all.  Touch sensor works great for me.  Wish they had volume controls on them but not a big deal.  All just my opinion.  If you can take them for a test drive from a store with a great return policy, I highly recommend.  Amazon all the way for me.



IIRC main complain is that they often don’t connect when you take them out of the case. 
Keeping an eye on it to see if they fix it.


----------



## DigDub (Jan 27, 2021)

Canabuc said:


> Problem for me is not knowing if I need medium or large. The cp360 had both sizes.


Large cp360 fits my ears for other buds, while I'm on the medium for cp100.


----------



## soullinker20

I've been going back and forth with UE  Fits and geminis. sold my az70w already.

really like the geminis if I didn't heard the UE fits. for vocals and highs ue fits will give a bit more detail and extension bass is is more on quality but lacking to me. overall sound is immersive and very close to a custom iem.

Geminis for me is the all rounder, highs roll off obviously when listening next to ue fit, vocals are detailed, natural and ok but not as full bodied like the ue fit. bass is satisfying, a little loose. it's more on the sub region than mid bass so there's more on impact/rumble than slam. the overall sound is distant. while on the ue fit, feels you are with the band, the geminis feel you in a concert hall seated in the middle or a couple more rows back.


----------



## bladefd (Jan 27, 2021)

It would be nice if someone could compare the UE Fits and Melomania Touch (or even the Sony wf-1000xm3 which have similar sound to the Touch)


----------



## Canabuc

erockg said:


> The Devialet Gemini?  Amazon US.  You can also get them off Devialet's website.  Few app bugs but nothing that makes me return them.  The sound is sick.  Switched the stock tips to some Spinfits I had.  The stock tips were making noise when going for walks outside.


Compared to the akgn400 or other buds you have how would you rate would comfort ANC....


----------



## erockg

Canabuc said:


> Compared to the akgn400 or other buds you have how would you rate would comfort ANC....


For me, I like the fit better than the AKG.  The ANC is much better than the AKG. No contest.


----------



## erockg

Tommy C said:


> IIRC main complain is that they often don’t connect when you take them out of the case.
> Keeping an eye on it to see if they fix it.


Mine connect no problem when I take them out of the case. Using an iPhone 12 Mini. Working from home these days so all I do is use headphones.


----------



## Eli1232

For other people with the Melomania Touch, do you hear background white noise/whooshing when you turn on transparency mode? There is a slight hiss whenever they are on and connected, but it is much more pronounced when I turn on transparency mode.


----------



## CocaCola15

Eli1232 said:


> For other people with the Melomania Touch, do you hear background white noise/whooshing when you turn on transparency mode? There is a slight hiss whenever they are on and connected, but it is much more pronounced when I turn on transparency mode.


Never use transparency but I can try it.


----------



## bladefd

Eli1232 said:


> For other people with the Melomania Touch, do you hear background white noise/whooshing when you turn on transparency mode? There is a slight hiss whenever they are on and connected, but it is much more pronounced when I turn on transparency mode.



Yes I do hear the whooshing sound in transparency mode almost like a wave moving through. It's a constant occurrence for me. I reported it to Cambridge Audio couple weeks back but dunno if they looked into it. I might ask them again, but I hate bugging over and over again lol. You should email them too (support@cambridgeaudio.com) - perhaps if more complain, they might do something in future update or something.


----------



## Eli1232

bladefd said:


> Yes I do hear the whooshing sound in transparency mode almost like a wave moving through. It's a constant occurrence for me. I reported it to Cambridge Audio couple weeks back but dunno if they looked into it. I might ask them again, but I hate bugging over and over again lol. You should email them too (support@cambridgeaudio.com) - perhaps if more complain, they might do something in future update or something.



Alright, I'll try using it for a few days, but it's probably not a dealbreaker for me since the music usually drowns it out and I'm a fan of the fit and the sound. At least the transparency mode works, unlike my last pair which only made white noise without changing the outside noise.


----------



## dj24

The Jabra Elite Active 75ts are currently just $95 at target..

https://www.target.com/p/jabra-elit...d/-/A-80173761?preselect=81526621#lnk=sametab


----------



## exitfire401

Got my galaxy buds pro mid-day yesterday. Sound is fine. I expected nothing, but they actually surprised me. I've moved to the dynamic eq as I found the default eq to drown the mids. Dynamic seems to be the most balanced. Voice activated ambient is an absolute lifesaver in the office though. I don't have to rush to get my adv tips out of my ears anymore. Buds charge enough to get through the second half of my day while on my lunch break as they're in the case. Obviously won't replace my FDX1 anytime soon. The sound is fine for what I wanted (Some music and anc to drown out office noise), but definitely not where I would want them to be to replace my primary iem (and based upon everything else I've listened to so far, we're just not there with tws yet). I definitely like the fit and sound above the airpods pro from the couple of weeks that I tested them.


----------



## Enn Jott (Jan 28, 2021)

Newguyuk said:


> Please can i ask did the recent firmware update in the Melomania Touch improve call quality or is this issue  not fixable because it’s hardware related
> thanks



Would love some new information on the MT in this regard as well. I had to send mine back because they were (almost) useless for calls. Got them pretty early though. Some people complained about call quality, one person on here said it was fine. The others did not really say anything about it. If the first batch/version was fixed via updates or had mechanical issues that were fixed I'd like to give them another try.


----------



## bladefd

Newguyuk said:


> Please can i ask did the recent firmware update in the Melomania Touch improve call quality or is this issue  not fixable because it’s hardware related
> thanks





Enn Jott said:


> Would love some new information on the MT in this regard as well. I had to send mine back because they were (almost) useless for calls. Got them pretty early though. Some people complained about call quality, one person on here said it was fine. The others did not really say anything about it. If the first batch/version was fixed via updates or had mechanical issues that were fixed I'd like to give them another try.



I will test it tomorrow by calling couple people with it.


----------



## Ultrainferno

The Falcon Pro replaces the original Falcon on our recommended buy list. Please contact @Virtu Fortuna if you have any questions.
https://www.headfonia.com/noble-falcon-pro-review/


----------



## zeinharis (Jan 28, 2021)

Ok, I’m jumping onto the wagon as well.

Been hearing to Nuarl N6 Mini this couple of days, first hour of listening I feel the sound is very congested (well I’m a wired person), details is there especially on the mids, but man the sound is (I wouldn’t say awful) being layered by something, my brain is trying hard to keep up with the sound coming out of the 6 mini. Second hour of listening, I tried to EQ’d it (boost the trebles a bit), and all of the sudden the sounds changed pretty significantly, it opens up a lot while keeping those details intact (in the mids and the bass), separation is good as well  the soundstage. I’m happy with the n6 mini, now I can enjoy music outside without  worrying about wires, even though it’s not as good as my wired ones.


----------



## Stourmead (Jan 29, 2021)

Master & Dynamic MW07 go in Lime Green

*Edited after feedback from M&D*

I love these but they are flawed and perhaps questions about build quality (see below) 




These ear buds come with a range of different colours,  with multiple tip size and wings included in the box to ensure a comfortable and secure fit. I use either the small or XS tips with the small wing on one ear and the medium on the other. Large really are huge !

So they are water resistant and marketed as gym / active wear . I find they are great for excluding   the rubbish music at the gym, or background noises like traffic if I'm on a run.

The sound quality is quite decent , and presents as slightly mid bass focussed to my ears . Great for the kind of get up and go tracks on my workout playlists.
Battery life is HUGE , reminds me of those Nokia 3210 memes....

Reliability? Ugh...  mine broke within a few weeks . The left one suddenly was verrrryyyy low in volume compared to the right one, regardless of resets, gentle cleaning etc.

Master & Dynamic were great though and sent me a new pair via their returns channel.

However much I'd love to say there are no issues on the replacement set, unfortunately I can't. The 2nd pair started showing  misbalance again on both tone and volume . However after a gentle clean with a cotton bud and a tiny drop of hydroxide, and crucially  leaving them alone deactivated for a good 12 hours, I came back and they were back to sounding normal. 

What puzzles me was they were spotlessly clean before this issue popped up,  so I have no idea what's causing this - I'm just happy the issue has cleared itself up by me literally doing nothing. I hope it's not recurring or indicative of quality issues , but remembering my first pair , that seed of doubt in my mind will always be there.


anyhow, Why did I choose these ?
The colour , the decent reviews of the standard MW07 , and the fact I dont want to overpay at the temple of apple.

I think these give a streak of individuality and great sound at the price. They are always a talking point. Even the box is cool with its tech-fabric feel and bright indicator LEDs , with the magnetic closure keeping your goodies safe.

Any cons?
Matching that lime green (or other colour you choose) to this season's gym wear is tricky, you might suddenly find your MW07's out of fashion for a few seasons , so you won't be able to colour co-ordinator as effortlessly as you like.

Fashion aside,
Call quality is meh. I'd prefer to take them out and speak in my phone like a normal person tbh.  The caller will also not that your voice seems quiet.

Pairing to one device is simple but then trying to pair to something else, or do a reset , becomes a mission of random feeling button presses, holds, and swearing as the little white LEDs rotate through their various disco modes lol. They aren't a great user experience if you want to muck about with them.

The ear fitting, as I've mentioned above, seems entirely dependent on getting the right combo of tips and wings , so trial and error.
I definitely see some people would always end up with one either never 'screwing' in to their conch for the wings to grip, or the ear tip itself just being the wrong angle/depth when the wing is perfect.
If it's in, it's perfect. Just don't expect to get there withing 2 seconds.


Again these are minor points and dont spoil the party once you've got it dialled in. They give joy.

So overall would I but these again?
I'm not sure. Reliability issues aside , they are great but they are niche.
They do the job I want them to (gym+run, full wireless) and to that end I KNOW I'm compromised right from the get-go. So as far as compromises go, they really are fab.

But maybe I'd be tempted to buy something less 'single use-case scenario'  , and enjoy all the usability on offer from other products on the market.


----------



## jant71 (Jan 28, 2021)

KEF Mu3...



https://www.stereonet.co.uk/news/kef-mu3-true-wireless-noise-cancelling-earphones-announced

Coming early Feb. Potential as they have good sounding stuff. Some winners and losers in the headphones and earphones like the M200. $50 cheaper and more ergonomic looking than the Devialet but we'll see if they don't have any issues and how they sound.


----------



## cresny

soullinker20 said:


> I've been going back and forth with UE  Fits and geminis. sold my az70w already.
> 
> really like the geminis if I didn't heard the UE fits. for vocals and highs ue fits will give a bit more detail and extension bass is is more on quality but lacking to me. overall sound is immersive and very close to a custom iem.
> 
> Geminis for me is the all rounder, highs roll off obviously when listening next to ue fit, vocals are detailed, natural and ok but not as full bodied like the ue fit. bass is satisfying, a little loose. it's more on the sub region than mid bass so there's more on impact/rumble than slam. the overall sound is distant. while on the ue fit, feels you are with the band, the geminis feel you in a concert hall seated in the middle or a couple more rows back.


I think your orchestra positioning anology is spot-on with the Geminis. 
There are a couple of things I think they do particularly well and am wondering how they compared to the UEs. One is how they render bow string sounds and other orchestral timbres, I think the detail is pretty great.  But what impresses me most is when listening loud, songs have dynamics that kick in and get complex, on all other earphones I usually have to turn it down because it gets overwhelming, but on the Geminis I don't. I'm not sure if that's technically what you call distortion, but IMO it's what separates the great from the merely good, and I'm wondering how the UEs compare.


----------



## Canabuc (Jan 28, 2021)

So for those in the know.

My quest for the Lord of the Buds. One bud to rule them all is not going well.

Contenders that didn't hit the mark:

XM3- insecure fit,bulky, terrible for exercise.

AZ70- Insufficient low end, bulbous insecure ear fit. Bad charging case with drain issue.

75t active- harsh highs, make soundstage bass bloated.

1moreAnc- Weak volume and battery with overly dark sound no EQ.

Galaxy buds pro- Would be a keeper of I could get a fit that was not painful but 6 different tips later and it's not worth it. Top 3 in sound though not as loud as others.

On the fence:

85t- does everything will but sound while good is not class leading. Fit less secure than usual for exercise.

JBL club pro+- great sound EQ'd.( Equal or better than Sony). Had issue with the Qi charging case so returned. ANC in brief test was nearly non existent.

Still to try but mixed reviews out other issues:

AKG N400- great sound but hear the case has issues and battery life total not great. ANC average and apparently bad latency for video.

MTW2- price above ideal but would consider. No Qi charging at that price. Heard they don't get that loud. ? Comfort?

Devialet- most expensive. Buggy software. No volume control on buds.

Cambridge MT- buggy, no ANC.

So for the contenders, should I gamble on the MTW2 or Gemini?

I have until Feb 11 to return the Jabras but so far if I could just get a bit more treble detail from them they would be the champs.


----------



## rhsauer

Canabuc said:


> So for those in the know.
> 
> My quest for the Lord of the Buds. One bud to rule them all is not going well.
> 
> ...


I've been watching your search for the perfect earphones with some amusement (because I go through the same thing, constantly).  The perfect earphone (like the perfect apartment) always seems to be just around the corner or just out of reach.  If they get the sound right, the fit is off -- if they get the sound and the fit, the ANC is disappointing.  On and on.  My advice, at the moment, is to get the Soundcore Life A2 NC (a/k/a the Soundcore Life Dot 2 NC, which is the same earphone with only cosmetic differences).  They may not sound quite as good as the Jabra 85t, but they cost less than 1/2 as much.  They tick all the boxes for me.


----------



## Canabuc

rhsauer said:


> I've been watching your search for the perfect earphones with some amusement (because I go through the same thing, constantly).  The perfect earphone (like the perfect apartment) always seems to be just around the corner or just out of reach.  If they get the sound right, the fit is off -- if they get the sound and the fit, the ANC is disappointing.  On and on.  My advice, at the moment, is to get the Soundcore Life A2 NC (a/k/a the Soundcore Life Dot 2 NC, which is the same earphone with only cosmetic differences).  They may not sound quite as good as the Jabra 85t, but they cost less than 1/2 as much.  They tick all the boxes for me.


Well I was lucky and got Jabras on sale were 216$Canadian or about 165$US. Think they offer the best value factoring sound comfort ANC....
Just having heard the XM3 and the JBL I prefer their sound a bit more. I would gladly pay more of I could get the bud with the features of the 85t. Comfort of the buds+. Sound of the XM3 or JBL. Can't figure out why the Lord of the Buds is harder to obtain.

At this point for a budget model I did order the Fiil t1pro which should arrive in 10di believe. At the 60$ USD price they check many boxes and would at least be a good workout bids given the light weight ear wind and ipx5.


----------



## Canabuc

On a different note any one using wavelet? I can't get them to work outside of legacy mode. Sam I flying something wrong? I don't want them running all the time but only when I use my ear buds.


----------



## C_Lindbergh

It's way too early to search for the perfect TWS, there's still too many fundamental flaws with the current Bluetooth technology. 

Even tho most of the issues will get fixed when we finally get earbuds with Bluetooth LE.


----------



## TK33 (Jan 28, 2021)

Stourmead said:


> Master & Dynamic MW07 go in Lime Green
> 
> I love these but they are flawed and perhaps unreliable - I've got questions about build quality (see below)
> 
> ...


I use Spinfits with mine (believe they are the CP100z) which I found to be an improvement over stock tips.

I initially had a battery charging issue on my first set of MW07 Go (black) which I returned after buying them in October 2019.  I bought them again after waiting a month (in Dec 2019) and have been using them now for over a year and haven't had any driver imbalance issues. Must be an issue with more recent production.

I agree with you thatcall quality is horrible and, in my opinion, unusable on the MW07 Go, especially if you are outdoors in a noisy or windy environment.

The current prices are great though...I paid $200 + tax for mine...


----------



## clerkpalmer

Canabuc said:


> So for those in the know.
> 
> My quest for the Lord of the Buds. One bud to rule them all is not going well.
> 
> ...


If you're willing to live with the gremlins and can buy with a return policy and you are risk taker, the Gemini is more satisfying sound wise.  That said the MTW2 is no slouch either and they are solid although I will warn that the ANC on them is pretty weak.  And by "pretty weak" I really mean "nonexistent".


----------



## alsorkin

Canabuc said:


> On another note regarding ANC.
> Tried an experiment. Sat in my den home theater and fired up a YouTube video of airplane noise at cruising altitude and noisy coffee shop. Tested the Jabra and Samsung.
> Both did very well and truthfully for both those environments there was no clear winner. The plane noise was effectively gone. Cafe noise only a bit of the highest frequency could be heard. And this was with no .usic playing just the ANC on highest setting for both. So with music would easily not hear anything!
> 
> ...


Only had the Pro for a day and using the largest tips and bass boost I find quite good sounding.


----------



## erockg

Canabuc said:


> So for those in the know.
> 
> My quest for the Lord of the Buds. One bud to rule them all is not going well.
> 
> ...


Sadly, nothing is perfect.  It's all subjective imo.  I change headphones more than I change my... well, I won't go there


----------



## Stourmead

TK33 said:


> The current prices are great though...I paid $200 + tax for mine...


Ive seen an $80 discount today on the Verge online shop, now at $120!


----------



## Canabuc

erockg said:


> Sadly, nothing is perfect.  It's all subjective imo.  I change headphones more than I change my... well, I won't go there


You are correct. Nothing is perfect.
I'm just frustrated as I could literally combine the traits of 2 earbuds and have the perfect setup for me.

I don't need single bud use.
Good sound is a must.
I do want ambient mode and decent ANC.
I want them to be loud enough and fit well enough to use for exercise.
I do want volume and track control accessible from the earbuds.

Anything else is gravy. In fact if you took the Jabra 85t and mixed them with the buds pro.....you have my perfect bud.


----------



## TK33

Stourmead said:


> Ive seen an $80 discount today on the Verge online shop, now at $120!


Yes that is the price I was referring to.  I saw it for the same price on Best Buy yesterday.


----------



## rhsauer (Jan 28, 2021)

I just got the Soundcore Life A2 NC from Amazon, even though I already have the Life Dot 2 NC, which seem to be identical (don't ask why), and off the bat I can tell that (i) the firmware of the A2 is 2.20 and the firmware of the Dot 2 is 1.55 -- so something is going on besides cosmetic differences, and (ii) the case for the A2 seems to have a slightly better build quality than the case for the Dot 2.  The sound similar (both sound good), but I haven't spend much time comparing them (yet).


----------



## erockg

Canabuc said:


> You are correct. Nothing is perfect.
> I'm just frustrated as I could literally combine the traits of 2 earbuds and have the perfect setup for me.
> 
> I don't need single bud use.
> ...



I spoke too soon.  Now I’m having a strange issue with the Devialet Gemini whereas the right bud keeps trying to connect even if I open and close the case which had been working.  I have to manually disconnect it and even then it still wakes and connects.


----------



## Canabuc

Was looking to buy from a Canadian store bit now they stopped selling the Devialet Gemini. Wonder if they got pulled for hardware reasons?


----------



## voicemaster

Just got my S21 Ultra and Galaxy buds pro today. Pairing was a breeze just like any other Galaxy buds. I am using "normal" EQ on mine and this buds pro sounds really good, definitely better than buds plus. I don't hear any sibilance tho the treble does sound really splashy but it doesn't bothering me at all for now. Tried the ANC and it blocked my PC fan noise like 99% of it. The ambiance mode sounds better than the buds plus, it is less metallic and less hiss. Pretty impressed by the sound so far.


----------



## Tommy C

Canabuc said:


> Was looking to buy from a Canadian store bit now they stopped selling the Devialet Gemini. Wonder if they got pulled for hardware reasons?



I won’t be surprised if they got pulled.  I’m very curious about the sq but despise glitchy products. It’s almost like some companies don’t do proper QA nowadays because if they were then Cambridge Audio and Devialet would have seen the issues with pairing and charging and whatnot.


----------



## soullinker20

Canabuc said:


> So for those in the know.
> 
> My quest for the Lord of the Buds. One bud to rule them all is not going well.
> 
> ...



i only have MTW. for fitting I would lean more on the geminis as it is less protruding and i can wear them for hours im not sure on the mtw2 as it is a little smaller than the 1st gen(hurts after 25-30mins). for sound alone let your ears decide. for ANC, ambience the geminis are really that good. functionality - on my case, i listen to music more on my laptop so i adjust the volume on my laptop. 
the geminis only have ANC and transparency mode if you control it on the earbuds itself. if you want to use it normally you have no choice but to set it via app. one thing i appreciate between those 2 modes is when i use them on webex, i can switch to ANC and transparency. while on the mtw and az70w the earbuds disconnect from the laptop.

th geminis are a bit buggy but manageable as long as you connect the left earbud first you're good.


----------



## soullinker20

cresny said:


> I think your orchestra positioning anology is spot-on with the Geminis.
> There are a couple of things I think they do particularly well and am wondering how they compared to the UEs. One is how they render bow string sounds and other orchestral timbres, I think the detail is pretty great.  But what impresses me most is when listening loud, songs have dynamics that kick in and get complex, on all other earphones I usually have to turn it down because it gets overwhelming, but on the Geminis I don't. I'm not sure if that's technically what you call distortion, but IMO it's what separates the great from the merely good, and I'm wondering how the UEs compare.



I'm a fan of UE that's why i bought it. they sound very close to a custom iem but the lack of bass is one of the reason i cannot recommend them. the geminis have spoiled me on the bass and they sound loud i listen to them at 40-80 on laptop and phone (depends on the content on youtube)


----------



## chinmie

erockg said:


> I spoke too soon.  Now I’m having a strange issue with the Devialet Gemini whereas the right bud keeps trying to connect even if I open and close the case which had been working.  I have to manually disconnect it and even then it still wakes and connects.



do you use 3rd party eartips with it? might be it doesn't quite fit on the case and causing auto connection?


----------



## erockg

chinmie said:


> do you use 3rd party eartips with it? might be it doesn't quite fit on the case and causing auto connection?


I’m using the stock large tips.  I reset them and that seems to have fixed the issue.  Time will tell.


----------



## Dregur

I'm watching the Klipsch T5 II ANC that might be interesting, but I have no idea when those come out. 

https://www.klipsch.com/ces-2021

I just want a ANC that sounds good, has good ANC, and whose case isn't insanely large.

The feel the Sony XM1000m3 have some rather large deficencies in all three, honestly.


----------



## C_Lindbergh

Dregur said:


> I'm watching the Klipsch T5 II ANC that might be interesting, but I have no idea when those come out.
> 
> https://www.klipsch.com/ces-2021
> 
> ...



Some interesting features:




> A built-in Bragi® operating system with embedded artificial intelligence allows for a growing ecosystem of future features and functions. With Bragi Moves, accepting calls is as easy as nodding your head
> 
> Integrated Dirac® HD Sound technology optimizes sound performance digitally for a clearer and more balanced sound



Even tho I susspect the "Dirac HD" is mostly just a buzzword, but the Bragi OS system seems very interesting.


----------



## Stourmead

TK33 said:


> Yes that is the price I was referring to.  I saw it for the same price on Best Buy yesterday.


Yeah it's a good price for sure 
Maybe I spoke too soon about reliability. Contacted master and dynamic , they advised me in the best cleaning techniques. Tried it, as of last night there was no change to the sound quality post cleaning but today, omg they are back to their roaring best.  I'm so confused . Do they reset their bud to bud pairing after a significant time ? Who knows


----------



## HerrXRDS

Does anyone else find the bass guitars to be lacking on Buds Pro?


----------



## 453183

I've had four pairs of true wireless earbuds at this point. I live & work in a metropolitan area - two of them (Libratone Track Air+ SE, Edifier TWS NB2) have an issue with sound dropping out frequently when I wear them outdoors. The other two (Jaybirds, 1More) had no such problem. How can I tell if this is likely to be an issue with future TWS purchases? I don't see many reviewers making reference to urban outdoor stability.


----------



## cresny

erockg said:


> I spoke too soon.  Now I’m having a strange issue with the Devialet Gemini whereas the right bud keeps trying to connect even if I open and close the case which had been working.  I have to manually disconnect it and even then it still wakes and connects.





erockg said:


> I spoke too soon.  Now I’m having a strange issue with the Devialet Gemini whereas the right bud keeps trying to connect even if I open and close the case which had been working.  I have to manually disconnect it and even then it still wakes and connects.


Happened to me, too. Best to just reset them, re-pair and carry on.


----------



## Canabuc (Jan 29, 2021)

Anyone have experience with the Oppo Enco X? Seems they were made with assistance of Dynaudio using disk drives with good ANC. Early reviews sound very good.
Coaxial dual drivers. BT 5.2 full controls.....


----------



## clerkpalmer

Having spent more time with the Gemini, I'm not sure I could find a better sound out of ANY bluetooth headset (except my HFM Ananda BT).  I prefer them to my AKG371 and my Air Pods Max.  In fact, I am selling the Air Pod Max's because the Gemini frankly just sound better.  I recently sold off my Drop Panda, but the Gemini also sound better than those.  They really nailed the tonality.  The dynamics are excellent and there is sub bass which I don't typically hear on an IEM.  They aren't neutral but neither are the Air Pods Max.  And the ANC is very strong.  After some initial pairing issues, mine seem to be holding up fine.  They pair quickly to my phone and I am not experiencing battery drain issues.


----------



## cresny

Tommy C said:


> I won’t be surprised if they got pulled.  I’m very curious about the sq but despise glitchy products. It’s almost like some companies don’t do proper QA nowadays because if they were then Cambridge Audio and Devialet would have seen the issues with pairing and charging and whatnot.


Totally agree, no doubt they were rushed out for the holiday shopping season. As good as the hardware is, no way these are ready for the masses. Apparently new firmware for Geminis is imminent so hopefully they will at least make the move from alpha to beta. Otherwise these will forever be confined to special order for "special" people


----------



## erockg

clerkpalmer said:


> Having spent more time with the Gemini, I'm not sure I could find a better sound out of ANY bluetooth headset (except my HFM Ananda BT).  I prefer them to my AKG371 and my Air Pods Max.  In fact, I am selling the Air Pod Max's because the Gemini frankly just sound better.  I recently sold off my Drop Panda, but the Gemini also sound better than those.  They really nailed the tonality.  The dynamics are excellent and there is sub bass which I don't typically hear on an IEM.  They aren't neutral but neither are the Air Pods Max.  And the ANC is very strong.  After some initial pairing issues, mine seem to be holding up fine.  They pair quickly to my phone and I am not experiencing battery drain issues.


Funny, I’m having the same thoughts re: should I sell my APM and just use the Gemini.  That said, I do love the soundstage and ease of use with my Apple gear that the APM provide.  Sound is great too, more neutral than the Gem.  Addictions suck


----------



## erockg

Dregur said:


> I'm watching the Klipsch T5 II ANC that might be interesting, but I have no idea when those come out.
> 
> https://www.klipsch.com/ces-2021
> 
> ...


I read somewhere the ANC version was supposed to come out in March but upon reading this link it looks like they decided to put the Bragg OS in the T5II ANC which was slated to be in the T10.  I wonder if they decided against making the T10. Bragi OS is pretty awesome. It was installed in the Bragi Dash Pro and I loved using it.


----------



## clerkpalmer

erockg said:


> Funny, I’m having the same thoughts re: should I sell my APM and just use the Gemini.  That said, I do love the soundstage and ease of use with my Apple gear that the APM provide.  Sound is great too, more neutral than the Gem.  Addictions suck


I’m selling my APM and letting the Gemini be my BT ANC set. Yeah a little more neutral but the sucked out mids on the APM bother me. I’m going with some Aeon Flow closed backs so it's not like I'm saving any money.  But the Gemini makes the APM seem largely redundant for a home Bt set.  The fact that the APM really can't be used for anything other than sitting still at a desk due to weight and construction limits their usefulness to me.  It's a decent product but there are some questionable design choices and the price is way too high.


----------



## Canabuc

Will all the stores that sell the Gemini say sold out including the Devialet site.
Wonder if there were issues with the initial batch. Can't imagine everywhere would sell out for such an expensive product at the same time.


----------



## clerkpalmer

Canabuc said:


> Will all the stores that sell the Gemini say sold out including the Devialet site.
> Wonder if there were issues with the initial batch. Can't imagine everywhere would sell out for such an expensive product at the same time.


Sounds like perhaps they halted sales until the new FW is available. Probably a good decision as the pairing process is ridiculously complicated and unstable.


----------



## Canabuc

clerkpalmer said:


> Sounds like perhaps they halted sales until the new FW is available. Probably a good decision as the pairing process is ridiculously complicated and unstable.


Maybe who knows. If it's only a firmware thing don't know why sales would be halted. Every company has firmware updates. Funny thing is Cambridge also having issues and halted sales. Wonder if they are both using same chip and maybe there is a design issue


----------



## cresny

Canabuc said:


> Maybe who knows. If it's only a firmware thing don't know why sales would be halted. Every company has firmware updates. Funny thing is Cambridge also having issues and halted sales. Wonder if they are both using same chip and maybe there is a design issue


A less tech savvy friend of mine got them and had no patience with them, had to return them. I imagine there was good proportion of this and Devialet had to answer to a lot of pissed off retailers. That answer may have been to pause sales, and "sold out" is a lot easier to say than "paused for bug fixes".


----------



## caprimulgus

Canabuc said:


> You are correct. Nothing is perfect.
> I'm just frustrated as I could literally combine the traits of 2 earbuds and have the perfect setup for me.


----------



## tinyman392

caprimulgus said:


>




Such an awesome car!  It was immortalized in Hot Wheel form at one point too!


----------



## exitfire401

HerrXRDS said:


> Does anyone else find the bass guitars to be lacking on Buds Pro?


I definitely don't get the punch that I do from my IEMs, but it's definitely a sufficient amount of bass guitar in balance with everything else imo.


----------



## DRuM (Jan 29, 2021)

SilverGrey said:


> Mpow M30 Plus are a really good buy. I have headphones and earbuds costing hundreds and the M30s are just as good. 100 hours of battery life is also very useful.



I received them today. Actually, I didn't buy the plus, I bought the standard M30 for under £30. Wow, they're great! I genuinely wasn't expecting them to be as good as you said but they are. The case is a perfect size, only as big as an egg, nice and dinky in the hand. Synced straight away with my phone, and all the touch controls work smoothly.  There's excellent detail in the sound with nice mids and treble. I fitted the largest tips in the box and while they sound good and give some punchy bass, there isn't enough depth and the highs are a bit bright for me. I decided to take my even larger white ones off my TFZ buds and fit them on the Mpow, and they have wider holes. Here's a size comparison.










What a massive difference tips make! Now the bass is deeper, the overall sound is fuller and warmer and the highs have been tamed. These do actually come pretty close to my ibasso buds. And they're very secure in the ears and comfortable. And they fit perfectly in the magnetic case with the larger tips and still charge up. Very happy with these. Thanks for the recommendation.


----------



## Dregur (Jan 29, 2021)

Well, it looks like my time with the Melomania Touch has come to an end. Just sent in my RMA to return the earbuds. Even after the firmware update these were the problems I kept having:

Headphones will not pair together: Cannot factory reset left bud after right bud was factory reset, and now they will not pair together.
Issues with inconsistent bluetooth connection
Issues with volume sometimes being quiet and having put the buds back in the case, and having taking them back out of the case.
Issues with adjusting the volume, the volume starts oscillating between the two earbuds. Have to put them back in the case and take them back out.

It sucks, I really love the sound of the earbuds, but these issues kept coming back up. Partnered with the hardware issues with the case with the earbuds not sitting in them correctly, I'd rather go for another pair of earbuds that I can depend on with connecting correctly every time.


----------



## jasonb (Jan 29, 2021)

So I’ve had my iPhone and AirPods Pro since mid December now and I really enjoy them. I’ve since gotten an iPad Air Gen 4 as well. I really like the iPad and AirPods Pro for movies with the spatial audio. I don’t have a home theater system anymore, and this really is pretty damn awesome. I never thought I’d be this invested in the Apple ecosystem, but I’m liking this stuff a lot. I also bought Apples overpriced Magic Keyboard for the iPad as well, but I got that for 33% off.


----------



## dj24

The Jabra Elite Active 75ts keep dropping and now are in chi-fi price territory.  They're currently just *$80* on eBay sold by Jabra as certified refurbished once you use coupon code *PERFECTVDAY15* during checkout.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Jabra-Elit...ss-Earbuds-Certified-Refurbished/164441338697


----------



## Canabuc

Sony wf800 on sale now 148$ Canadian or about 115$usd.
Any opinion on their sound? They are ip55 ANC and have earwing to keep in place.


----------



## MCPT

Ouch.  I literally have the Melomania Touch white ear buds and black case in my cart and came here to check and make sure current owners are still finding them to be better since the update.  Are any other owners still happy with them and finding them to be mostly reliable?  If so, I may still take the plunge.


----------



## vladzakhar

Nothing is wrong with my pair of MT's. Connection is rock solid. The only thing you have to watch when placing them in the case, make sure the start flashing red. This is the case design flaw but it doesn't bother me much.


----------



## voicemaster

HerrXRDS said:


> Does anyone else find the bass guitars to be lacking on Buds Pro?


What eq setting are you using? I am using "normal" and I don't find it lacking in delivering bass guitar. 

One of my test song for any audio related.


----------



## bladefd

MCPT said:


> Ouch.  I literally have the Melomania Touch white ear buds and black case in my cart and came here to check and make sure current owners are still finding them to be better since the update.  Are any other owners still happy with them and finding them to be mostly reliable?  If so, I may still take the plunge.



It's been working well for me since the firmware update. Connection issues I used to have are solved. I really like the sound quality and am probably keeping them.

That reminds me I have to check microphone quality for couple posters here. Forgot to do it.


----------



## Canabuc

hifi80sman said:


> Comfort/Sound combination is absolutely fantastic.  I still think pure audio quality goes to the JBL Club Pro+, however, after a few hours, the plastic does make my ears a bit sore and I need a break.  I can wear both the QC and Sport earbuds all day long.  That being said, I do crave the Bose sound signature to feed the beast.


Thinking about buying the JBL again. Loved the sound and were comfortable. ANC was weak but think my ear seal could have been better but sound wise they were right there with XM3 but with clearer mids.
What type would fit in them? Thinking I need something bigger than the stock large on the right.


----------



## 3Putter (Jan 29, 2021)

Canabuc said:


> So for those in the know.
> 
> My quest for the Lord of the Buds. One bud to rule them all is not going well.
> 
> ...


Seems the chase is the real fun with this endeavor...


----------



## 3Putter

jasonb said:


> So I’ve had my iPhone and AirPods Pro since mid December now and I really enjoy them. I’ve since gotten an iPad Air Gen 4 as well. I really like the iPad and AirPods Pro for movies with the spatial audio. I don’t have a home theater system anymore, and this really is pretty damn awesome. I never thought I’d be this invested in the Apple ecosystem, but I’m liking this stuff a lot. I also bought Apples overpriced Magic Keyboard for the iPad as well, but I got that for 33% off.


I was the same. My kids and wife said I need to get on board with the iPhone so I did. Have a MacBook Air for work use as I grew tired of burning through windows machines. Won't likely go to a Windows PC again. AAC is ok. Sounds good with my wired Period Audio C's. A consultant I am working with on Social Media and Google promotions for my business highly recommends the Magic Mouse and Keyboard. Says, 'They're expensive but welllll worth it....' I would love to try the APM's. Didn't think the APP's were worth the tradeoff convenience for SQ. But I go back and forth and think at the new price of $199 maybe...nope, sticking with my wired IEM's and desktop setup for listening. I have my wife's Bose Soundsports for the gym and ughhhhh...nasty


----------



## Canabuc

3Putter said:


> For all the time wasted trying to find the perfect wireless bud why not just use wired? Unless, of course, the chase is the real thrill...


Well if you have read my posts you would know my main reasons for wireless is exercise, late night listening in bed convenience when traveling or out and about. 

My phone no longer Congress with a hack so now I would need a single as well. And I still would want ambient sound and ANC. Not many weeks buds would work.

Trust me I don't want the chase. I was lucky with headphones. My p7w were only my second try after gaining the momentum 2. And I like the warm sound also of my M&D mw50. But having a hard time finding a bud that his all my criteria. Jabra 85t is close though the fit is not perfect and the unique tip shape makes it a bit tough to tip roll.

JBL hit the sound and comfort ANC is weak but maybe not a deal breaker given us the for best sounding I have heard.

Frankly my buds plus if they could have ANC and sound of the pros would be perfect too. The buds pro hit all my criteria but hurt my ears.


----------



## jhwalker

3Putter said:


> For all the time wasted trying to find the perfect wireless bud why not just use wired? Unless, of course, the chase is the real thrill...



For me, it's mobility.  

I use mine for work / Zoom working from home (plus music / movies when / if I ever wind up traveling again) - I can't wander around the house in my undies with wired earbuds.


----------



## ForgotMyName (Jan 29, 2021)

Canabuc said:


> So for those in the know.
> 
> My quest for the Lord of the Buds. One bud to rule them all is not going well.
> 
> ...



How disappointing. Some of the users in here made it seem like the melomania touch's issues have been fixed with the update.


----------



## CocaCola15 (Jan 29, 2021)

MCPT said:


> Ouch.  I literally have the Melomania Touch white ear buds and black case in my cart and came here to check and make sure current owners are still finding them to be better since the update.  Are any other owners still happy with them and finding them to be mostly reliable?  If so, I may still take the plunge.


I have a pair and have not had the same issues re connectivity or charging. Do really like the sound. Will keep them. But ... I got in early on the Status Audio Between Pro triple driver BT phones @$79 on Indiegogo. They are fantastic though I did some tip rolling. So far, no hiccups reconnections/dropouts or charging.

But as for the MT, sound great and as someone noted, make sure they are snug in the case.

Of course, I’m an addict. Just ordered the Jabra 75t Activ refurbs for $80 on ebay. And still love the Melomania 1 sound sig too. Four BT phones! And that’s just the in-ears! have a pair of Tranya B530s too. Need to give them away!


----------



## dweaver (Jan 29, 2021)

Canabuc said:


> Sony wf800 on sale now 148$ Canadian or about 115$usd.
> Any opinion on their sound? They are ip55 ANC and have earwing to keep in place.


Wow where are you seeing them at that price?

NVM I should have googled first. There they are on Bestbuy...


----------



## Canabuc

dweaver said:


> Wow where are you seeing them at that price?
> 
> NVM I should have googled first. There they are on Bestbuy...


Amazon.
Do they sound as good as XM3 after EQ in app?


----------



## MCPT

I appreciate all of your feedback regarding your Melomania Touch buds.  I'm going to go ahead and give them a try.  I'll post my impressions once I get sometime to get a good feeling for their sound and function.


----------



## dweaver

Canabuc said:


> Amazon.
> Do they sound as good as XM3 after EQ in app?


Lol I wish I knew! I have not heard either unfortunately. But from why I have read the SP800 is more bass heavy than the 1000XM3 and consequently not as detailed or bright sounding. So if you love bass you might prefer the SP800N but if you loved the 1000XM3 signature you might not.

They have fins to help secure them in your ear so fit better but may not be as comfortable. I am semi tempted but don't think I can afford them even at that good price. Plus I am still enjoying the AZ70 which is pretty much the polar opposite.

I suspect this may mean Sony is getting close to releasing a new TWS probably the 1000XM4 and store are staring to want to clear inventory.


----------



## Canabuc

dweaver said:


> Lol I wish I knew! I have not heard either unfortunately. But from why I have read the SP800 is more bass heavy than the 1000XM3 and consequently not as detailed or bright sounding. So if you love bass you might prefer the SP800N but if you loved the 1000XM3 signature you might not.
> 
> They have fins to help secure them in your ear so fit better but may not be as comfortable. I am semi tempted but don't think I can afford them even at that good price. Plus I am still enjoying the AZ70 which is pretty much the polar opposite.
> 
> I suspect this may mean Sony is getting close to releasing a new TWS probably the 1000XM4 and store are staring to want to clear inventory.


I agree regarding bass heavy but if drivers are same as XM3 then maybe EQ can get them to sound same as body is quite similar.
My issue with XM3 was fit and security and IP rating.


----------



## Kuli

Dregur said:


> Well, it looks like my time with the Melomania Touch has come to an end. Just sent in my RMA to return the earbuds. Even after the firmware update these were the problems I kept having:
> 
> Headphones will not pair together: Cannot factory reset left bud after right bud was factory reset, and now they will not pair together.
> Issues with inconsistent bluetooth connection
> ...



Same reason I returned mine. Too much trouble. They should have waited to get it right before the release.


----------



## Thesonofkrypton (Jan 30, 2021)

Can't believe there's no news at all regarding the WF-1000XM4.  But Sony have recently dropped a lot of products, TV, Speakers, Pro mobile phone, the new A1 camera all out the blue almost, so there
's some hope the earphones/headphones are soon.


----------



## Canabuc

You would think there would be a leak or rumor of xm4 but nothing.


----------



## clerkpalmer

Canabuc said:


> You would think there would be a leak or rumor of xm4 but nothing.


It's been a really slow period for TWS.  Nothing really new being brought to the table.  Kinda boring.  I mentioned a month ago that TWS may have peaked and I stand by my assertion.  Until we get a new breakthrough in BT, I think we are pretty close to the limit.  Not to say this is a bad thing - there are some excellent choices out there but the innovation seems to have stalled. Maybe Audeze has something in the works?


----------



## HerrXRDS (Jan 30, 2021)

voicemaster said:


> What eq setting are you using? I am using "normal" and I don't find it lacking in delivering bass guitar.
> 
> One of my test song for any audio related.




I'm also using normal. I can hear the bass when there's not much around it, but if I listen to metal or busy tracks, drums and other instruments will drown it too much for my taste.

For example I was just listening to this and the notes are clear on some other sets, not so much on Buds Pro during busy sections.


----------



## voicemaster (Jan 30, 2021)

HerrXRDS said:


> I'm also using normal. I can hear the bass when there's not much around it, but if I listen to metal or busy tracks, drums and other instruments will drown it too much for my taste.
> 
> For example I was just listening to this and the notes are clear on some other sets, not so much on Buds Pro during busy sections.



Try using dynamic eq. It sure increase the mid bass and bring out the bass guitar more.
Also, western metal and rock band almost always have the bass guitar low in the mix. Compare to the Japanese metal or rock band which mix it a little bit even.


----------



## Dregur

So I ended up getting the Galaxy Buds Pro myself. My first impressions are fairly positive: 

The big elephant in the room is fit: They fit me great, they're more comfortable than the Galaxy Buds Plus for me. But I am aware that I have large ears/conchas (I always use large tips, and large wings on earbuds), and I can absolutely see someone with smaller ears having issues with the earbuds hitting the extended part of the concha. The GBP do not hit that for me, and I have some clearance from the earbuds.

The tips themselves are not the worst I've ever used, but they are definitely not the best. I get a decent seal, but they could be improved on, and I think it affects the ANC not being all that great. While I was aware what I was getting into, it's stupid the nozzles are proprietary. 

The case is..okay. The hinge is loose, and I miss the sturdiness and snappiness of the Buds Plus case. I prefer the case on Buds plus too. There's a bigger lip on the case that makes the case easy to open. The Buds Pro do not have that, and the ergonomic of it are pretty bad. It is fairly small though, which I like. 

Turning off the ANC sucks some out of the bass. I wonder if the ANC is covering that the seal isn't perfect.

Sound quality is great. Comparing to the MT, it's definitely different. I'm not sure if I can prefer one or the other, but the Buds Pro lean more toward the consumer side, but they're still really great. The grittiness/sharpness on the highs from the Buds Plus are gone, and the clarity is better than the Sony's.


----------



## Canabuc

Dregur said:


> So I ended up getting the Galaxy Buds Pro myself. My first impressions are fairly positive:
> 
> The big elephant in the room is fit: They fit me great, they're more comfortable than the Galaxy Buds Plus for me. But I am aware that I have large ears/conchas (I always use large tips, and large wings on earbuds), and I can absolutely see someone with smaller ears having issues with the earbuds hitting the extended part of the concha. The GBP do not hit that for me, and I have some clearance from the earbuds.
> 
> ...


My ears have shallow Concha and that is why I find them painful. Interestingly I tried some comply tips on them that lead to the sticking out more and thus less contact points with my ear and comfort improved.
I bet if I can find a tip that is a bit shallower than the comply I have but longer than stock I might be ok. 
I do really like the sound even if bass could be a bit stronger and overall volume is a tick or so low.
ANC on my test was equal to 85t


----------



## DigDub (Jan 30, 2021)

The buds pro need a longer tip to improve the fit and comfort. Also a thicker material to thicken the bass. I find the spinfit cp100 perfect for this. As for the ANC, Samsung has tuned it to be similar to the buds live - mid-low ambient noise is filtered out, so low humming engine and wind noise are generally cut off, but speech and mid high tones are still audible. I guess Samsung's intention is not to create a totally silent environment for listening, but to cut out noise that are constant and continuous, and sounds like announcements and people trying to get your attention to come through.


----------



## zeinharis

Listening to Soen’s newest album Imperial on my N6 Mini is a breeze, Joel Ekelöf voice is awesome more weightier. The recording is already as it is (close to neutral sound recording, compared to earlier album, best album ever) and the N6 Mini (boost the trebles a tad) shines in this album


----------



## Canabuc

DigDub said:


> The buds pro need a longer tip to improve the fit and comfort. Also a thicker material to thicken the bass. I find the spinfit cp100 perfect for this. As for the ANC, Samsung has tuned it to be similar to the buds live - mid-low ambient noise is filtered out, so low humming engine and wind noise are generally cut off, but speech and mid high tones are still audible. I guess Samsung's intention is not to create a totally silent environment for listening, but to cut out noise that are constant and continuous, and sounds like announcements and people trying to get your attention to come through.


Spinfit cp100. Hmm. I had tried the 360 and they weren't good ironically some old comply tips seemed good but just a drop long.
Will have to start doing tip length measurements lol.

That said the sound is great on them.

Overall for just sound for my ears:

1. XM3=JBL club pro+
2. Buds Pro
3. 85t
4. L2P
5. AZ70W
6.Buds +
7.75t

Debating trying Sennheiser or Bose though to be honest if I can get the right fit on Samsung no need to go further.

And JBL was about to re buy and Amazon jacked the price 80 cdn in a manner of hours so that is on hold.


----------



## bladefd

Canabuc said:


> My ears have shallow Concha and that is why I find them painful. Interestingly I tried some comply tips on them that lead to the sticking out more and thus less contact points with my ear and comfort improved.
> I bet if I can find a tip that is a bit shallower than the comply I have but longer than stock I might be ok.
> I do really like the sound even if bass could be a bit stronger and overall volume is a tick or so low.
> ANC on my test was equal to 85t



If you are having so many fit issues with earbuds, why don't you try UE Fits? You can customize the eartip to your ear shape.

I thought about trying UE Fits but I am not having fit/comfort issues with Touch. It doesn't make sense for me to spend $75 more for the UE Fits.


----------



## Canabuc

bladefd said:


> If you are having so many fit issues with earbuds, why don't you try UE Fits? You can customize the eartip to your ear shape.
> 
> I thought about trying UE Fits but I am not having fit/comfort issues with Touch. It doesn't make sense for me to spend $75 more for the UE Fits.


Not available in Canada.
Expensive

No idea what the sound quality is like so would be hesitant to make a non returnable purchase. 

Most earbuds I can fix the fit but the newer ones seem tricky. The tips are now oval with a shallow fit for some.

Buds plus, L2P, 75t all fit me well. JBL fit fine bit just need a slightly bigger tip in right ear.
XM3 don't fit most people for longer with exercise.
Only issue is buds pro right ear and the 85t don't feel secure enough for working out.

So far no 3rd party oval tips to speak of.


----------



## turbobb

Canabuc said:


> Overall for just sound for my ears:
> 
> 1. XM3=JBL club pro+
> 2. Buds Pro
> ...



From this list, which would you rank best for call quality?


----------



## turbobb (Jan 31, 2021)

Since I do a bit of video editing, I've been keeping an eye out on units with low latency (be it aptX LL or proprietary). Thus far, those that support aptX LL have been few but here's an interesting one coming up from EPOS (Senn's gaming focused brand):
https://www.eposaudio.com/en/us/gam...y-connection-bluetooth-gaming-headset-1000230

It comes with an aptX LL dongle with USB-C so can be used w/Android and Switch. I assume it can be used without the dongle w/devices that support aptX LL natively in which case, I saw the TWS being listed sans dongle on Amazon for $30 less).

Another TWS I noticed that's coming out w/low latency (though I'm not sure how it's implemented since it mentions that it's not dependent on the source) is:
https://avantree.com/ace-tws130
EDIT 2: Avantree confirmed this uses the QCC3040 but yet says it doesn't have aptX Adaptive...

On a different but related topic, not sure how may of us on this board have TWS with aptX Adaptive (and a supporting source) but wondering if anyone knows how does the low latency work? Is there a way to turn it on / off or does it assume if you're watching video, it'll invoke low latency automatically?
EDIT: Found a good write up of how it works here.


----------



## Canabuc

turbobb said:


> From this list, which would you rank best for call quality?


Havent made calls with all but the Samsung's seemed best, Jabra 85t was mixed bag as I had one very poor can but not sure if it was the buds or the caller. Liberty 2 pro was worst. The others were in middle


----------



## voicemaster

turbobb said:


> From this list, which would you rank best for call quality?


The samsung buds from the plus up to now has been top tier for call quality.


----------



## erockg

bladefd said:


> If you are having so many fit issues with earbuds, why don't you try UE Fits? You can customize the eartip to your ear shape.
> 
> I thought about trying UE Fits but I am not having fit/comfort issues with Touch. It doesn't make sense for me to spend $75 more for the UE Fits.


I have them and love them. The fit is just perfect. Not many options as far as touch controls but I’ve used them on phone calls for work and no one ever has an issue hearing me. I haven’t had any disconnect issues or the like. So far so good. I found a 10% off coupon by googling. Pretty cool technology but you are paying a premium to have that fit which is definitely very very good. The sound quality is great.


----------



## XUPX

Anyone tried the Earsonics Aero?
Looking for something that sounds good but also has a small bore (<3mm), waterproof, decent battery life and small shape. Currently have Apple Airpods (non pro) which I like because I prefer buds to IEMs (hate things in my ears) even though they sound terrible. 
Unfortunately, lack of waterproofing killed the mice and I can't use them for calls. 
Price up to $400 is fine i think.


----------



## Dregur

turbobb said:


> Since I do a bit of video editing, I've been keeping an eye out on units with low latency (be it aptX LL or proprietary). Thus far, those that support aptX LL have been few but here's an interesting one coming up from EPOS (Senn's gaming focused brand):
> https://www.eposaudio.com/en/us/gam...y-connection-bluetooth-gaming-headset-1000230
> 
> It comes with an aptX LL dongle with USB-C so can be used w/Android and Switch. I assume it can be used without the dongle w/devices that support aptX LL natively in which case, I saw the TWS being listed sans dongle on Amazon for $30 less).
> ...



The Nuarl N6 Sport uses APTX adaptive.. I would've bought that if it was available in the US.


----------



## tinyman392

XUPX said:


> Anyone tried the Earsonics Aero?
> Looking for something that sounds good but also has a small bore (<3mm), waterproof, decent battery life and small shape. Currently have Apple Airpods (non pro) which I like because I prefer buds to IEMs (hate things in my ears) even though they sound terrible.
> Unfortunately, lack of waterproofing killed the mice and I can't use them for calls.
> Price up to $400 is fine i think.



The Earsonics would still be considered IEMs IMO (shallow fitting, but still in-ear).  From the looks of their design, they actually look like they insert not much deeper than the AirPods Pro.  Keep in mind that it's very difficult to make an earbud (non-sealing) design sound good because the seal actually helps quite a bit from the acoustic standpoint.


----------



## XUPX

tinyman392 said:


> The Earsonics would still be considered IEMs IMO (shallow fitting, but still in-ear).  From the looks of their design, they actually look like they insert not much deeper than the AirPods Pro.  Keep in mind that it's very difficult to make an earbud (non-sealing) design sound good because the seal actually helps quite a bit from the acoustic standpoint.


Thanks for the input. 
I totally agree and understand. I don't think anyone is making earbuds anymore unfortunately, so I'm left with a shallow insertion IEMs I think. 
I think the Airpods just sound bad. I had an earbud from B&O a long time ago that actually sounded very decent, so I know it's possible 
But I guess most people prefer IEMs. I just hate the feeling of things in my ears


----------



## Toom

XUPX said:


> Thanks for the input.
> I totally agree and understand. I don't think anyone is making earbuds anymore unfortunately, so I'm left with a shallow insertion IEMs I think.
> I think the Airpods just sound bad. I had an earbud from B&O a long time ago that actually sounded very decent, so I know it's possible
> But I guess most people prefer IEMs. I just hate the feeling of things in my ears



Fiio EM5


XUPX said:


> Thanks for the input.
> I totally agree and understand. I don't think anyone is making earbuds anymore unfortunately, so I'm left with a shallow insertion IEMs I think.
> I think the Airpods just sound bad. I had an earbud from B&O a long time ago that actually sounded very decent, so I know it's possible
> But I guess most people prefer IEMs. I just hate the feeling of things in my ears



Earbuds are still being made  - https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/page-3470

I personally recently got the new Fiio EM5s and they sound fantastic.


----------



## XUPX

Toom said:


> Fiio EM5
> 
> 
> Earbuds are still being made  - https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/page-3470
> ...


Good to know! Thanks! But right now on search for some true wireless earphones.


----------



## tinyman392

XUPX said:


> Thanks for the input.
> I totally agree and understand. I don't think anyone is making earbuds anymore unfortunately, so I'm left with a shallow insertion IEMs I think.
> I think the Airpods just sound bad. I had an earbud from B&O a long time ago that actually sounded very decent, so I know it's possible
> But I guess most people prefer IEMs. I just hate the feeling of things in my ears



I know you feel the AirPods sound bad (because they actually do).  The Pro do sound a lot better though (they don't sound anything like the OG AirPods).  The EarSonics do look interesting though, EarSonics has a good reputation with IEMs.


----------



## tinyman392

@XUPX Sorry to double post.  There are some other earbud style (and non-sealing) TWS out there.  JBL has the 225TWS that runs about 50-70 USD (depending on where you purchase).  I think Bose recently released a non-sealing headphone too, they run 200.  This type of headphone is rare, but does exist.  I'm not sure how any of them sound; the Bose is new and the JBL isn't super popular I don't think.


----------



## XUPX

tinyman392 said:


> I know you feel the AirPods sound bad (because they actually do).  The Pro do sound a lot better though (they don't sound anything like the OG AirPods).  The EarSonics do look interesting though, EarSonics has a good reputation with IEMs.


I actually heard the APP and they do sound better. But as you say, ES has a good reputation and in willing to spend a bit more if they're better


----------



## tinyman392 (Jan 31, 2021)

XUPX said:


> I actually heard the APP and they do sound better. But as you say, ES has a good reputation and in willing to spend a bit more if they're better



One of the things I've found with TWS (any headphone really) is that there is more to it than just sound.  My UE Fits sound quite a bit better than my APP and are far more comfortable.  But they lack any sort of music control which really cripples them as a BT headphone.  I can't tell if  the ES has touch control or a button/pressure based on.  I've found touch control on most headphones (not just IEMs) to be very finicky and have quite a learning curve.  An old school button would simply work better in many cases (with with Apple going from AP to APP, granted they use a pressure sensor).

I should note that the UE Fits are extremely comfortable (probably the most comfortable universal IEM I've used; I've 200+ IEMs sitting in my closet from back in the day), sit shallow, and sound very good (plus EQ if you need to adjust).  If you can deal with the limited controls, they may fit what you're looking for (limited control is double tap per earbud, you can only assign one function per ear, no automatic pausing when you remove one from your ear).


----------



## XUPX

tinyman392 said:


> One of the things I've found with TWS (any headphone really) is that there is more to it than just sound.  My UE Fits sound quite a bit better than my APP and are far more comfortable.  But they lack any sort of music control which really cripples them as a BT headphone.  I can't tell if  the ES has touch control or a button/pressure based on.  I've found touch control on most headphones (not just IEMs) to be very finicky and have quite a learning curve.  An old school button would simply work better in many cases (with with Apple going from AP to APP, granted they use a pressure sensor).
> 
> I should note that the UE Fits are extremely comfortable (probably the most comfortable universal IEM I've used; I've 200+ IEMs sitting in my closet from back in the day), sit shallow, and sound very good (plus EQ if you need to adjust).  If you can deal with the limited controls, they may fit what you're looking for (limited control is double tap per earbud, you can only assign one function per ear, no automatic pausing when you remove one from your ear).


Cool. I'll see if I can find them around here. Might give them a shot.


----------



## jant71 (Jan 31, 2021)

XUPX said:


> Anyone tried the Earsonics Aero?
> Looking for something that sounds good but also has a small bore (<3mm), waterproof, decent battery life and small shape. Currently have Apple Airpods (non pro) which I like because I prefer buds to IEMs (hate things in my ears) even though they sound terrible.
> Unfortunately, lack of waterproofing killed the mice and I can't use them for calls.
> Price up to $400 is fine i think.



I would think the Earin A3 is something you might want to check out.


----------



## voicemaster

So been rocking galaxy buds pro and I am very impressed by the sound. I am still using the normal EQ and find it pretty natural sounding than the other EQs. Sound signature is shallow V shaped imho. Bass is punchy with enough rumble to it, mid is a little bit more forward than previous model (plus), treble is extended quite well and splashy but never sibilance to my ear. Some people who are treble sensitive might find it fatiguing after awhile, for me tho it is perfect. Connection is solid as expected and I paired the pro with my s21 ultra so I get the scalable codec which is better than SBC imho. The fit also great and very secure in my ears even when I shake my head. I am using the largest tips supplied. 
The ANC is okay as it is not my priority for a TWS for me. It does a good job blocking low noise, but doesn't really do much for mid to high frequencies. Perfectly fine for me as I could hardly hear a damn thing outside even without ANC while the music is playing .
The ambiance mode also better than the plus, less hissing and metallic at least. Touch control is typical galaxy buds and I turned on "block touch" like 90% of the time anyway.


----------



## dasadab

XUPX said:


> Thanks for the input.
> I totally agree and understand. I don't think anyone is making earbuds anymore unfortunately, so I'm left with a shallow insertion IEMs I think.
> I think the Airpods just sound bad. I had an earbud from B&O a long time ago that actually sounded very decent, so I know it's possible
> But I guess most people prefer IEMs. I just hate the feeling of things in my ears


The Audeze offerings are fantastic.  They are like mini speakers that lightly hook on the ear.


----------



## 3Putter

Canabuc said:


> Well if you have read my posts you would know my main reasons for wireless is exercise, late night listening in bed convenience when traveling or out and about.
> 
> My phone no longer Congress with a hack so now I would need a single as well. And I still would want ambient sound and ANC. Not many weeks buds would work.
> 
> ...


I probably did. I like the chase myself. I have wired set up only. I tried the APP and enjoyed them but volume was lacking and the sound just wasn't what I was used to so I gave them to my daughter. I can get a pair of APM's but I don't know if I'd like them at the gym. I hear you on wanting it - just isn't there yet. I'm intrigued to try the Jabra's


----------



## XUPX

dasadab said:


> The Audeze offerings are fantastic.  They are like mini speakers that lightly hook on the ear.


I've been debating trying those, but I'm mostly using full sized cans these days. Just looking for a wireless setup now for working out and meetings. 
Thanks!


----------



## tinyman392

dasadab said:


> The Audeze offerings are fantastic.  They are like mini speakers that lightly hook on the ear.



The iSines are absolutely wonderful headphones...  But I wouldn't consider them truly wireless and their fit is kind of odd on its own.  They are shallow fit though which helps.  Even to make them BT you'd have to buy Audeze's 100 dollar BT cable (completely worth it though IMO).


----------



## jant71 (Jan 31, 2021)

Looks like Koss will be dipping their toe in...






Philips first pair with aptX(only SBC/AAC so far)...


----------



## tinyman392

^^ @XUPX Looks like Philips also has their own earbud now too. ^^


----------



## jant71

Want to get my hands on the four sizes of silicones that come on the new Sudio NIO...




Not sure if I would spend the $$$ on them.


----------



## clerkpalmer

XUPX said:


> I've been debating trying those, but I'm mostly using full sized cans these days. Just looking for a wireless setup now for working out and meetings.
> Thanks!


Audeze sine series and i3 are indeed excellent and they do not require you to jam them in your ears.  However, they are extremely sensitive to movement and placement.  I ultimately gave upon them for fit reasons.  Even the slightest movement would change the sound dramatically.  When everything is set properly, there are amazing.  The Xelento has a really shallow comfortable fit and has some sick sound.  Pricey but used prices are reasonable and they offer a BT module or you can grab an aftermarket one.


----------



## Canabuc

3Putter said:


> I probably did. I like the chase myself. I have wired set up only. I tried the APP and enjoyed them but volume was lacking and the sound just wasn't what I was used to so I gave them to my daughter. I can get a pair of APM's but I don't know if I'd like them at the gym. I hear you on wanting it - just isn't there yet. I'm intrigued to try the Jabra's


Jabras are so far best all arounders for me. Best controls. Very good sound and bass. Comfort is good. Qi charging....
Just wish the treble was a bit better like the buds pro or JBL. It is a bit rolled off. And I think a different tip would make them feel a bit more secure.


----------



## helmutcheese

SoundPEATS T2 ANC


SoundPEATS T2 ANC Earbuds! MUST SEE!!! SoundPeats first ANC earbuds! - YouTube


----------



## XUPX

Can anyone that has the Lypertek Tevi please measure the bore size? These seem decent and are cheap enough that I'm willing to just try them. ANC is nice to have but not a necessity. Also remember seeing some good things about them here. 

Can't seem to find UE Fits in Canada unfortunately. We seem to not get random things. That's part of why the Earsonics are interesting for me. They are available and seem to fit what I want.


----------



## jant71 (Feb 1, 2021)

XUPX said:


> Can anyone that has the Lypertek Tevi please measure the bore size? These seem decent and are cheap enough that I'm willing to just try them. ANC is nice to have but not a necessity. Also remember seeing some good things about them here.
> 
> Can't seem to find UE Fits in Canada unfortunately. We seem to not get random things. That's part of why the Earsonics are interesting for me. They are available and seem to fit what I want.



Again with the bore size? The Earsonics have a bigger bore. Hope you are not confusing that with their other models. These use a 6mm China driver and are not an Earsonics made into a TWS...



You mentioned 3mm bore size and the Earsonics are clearly larger.

And we have the EPZ S350T coming...

Comfortable and high-pitched -3d printed resin ring iron true wireless

Inspired by the star's custom-made private-model headphones

EPZ in order to achieve a real wireless headset comparable to private custom headphones, 3 years of research and development, mastered the color resin cavity 3D printing core technology, combined with EPZ more than 10 years of hardware and software development and resin headphone OEM experience so that S350T set high-face value, good sound in one and achieve personalized customization and large-scale mass production!

Over-level top match, only for the first sound 
 Give you a different hearing feast 

1, Qualcomm QCC3040: Bluetooth 5.2 module

2, ring iron coaxial diaphragm: treble more stable, bass deeper

3, personalized personal customization: to create a unique exclusive

4, 3D printing resin cavity: fit ergonomic design

5, APTX-HD and APTX-LL: Free switch

6, Qualcomm wireless mirroring technology: single-ear seamless switching

7, QI standard wireless charge: 8 plus 45 hours battery life

8, IPX7 waterproof: sports rain is not afraid

9, business trip casually listen to: a put can be charged


----------



## XUPX

jant71 said:


> Again with the bore size? The Earsonics have a bigger bore. Hope you are not confusing that with their other models. These use a 6mm China driver and are not an Earsonics made into a TWS...
> 
> You mentioned 3mm bore size and the Earsonics are clearly larger.


I'm not sure what's the problem with asking about bore size :/ 
It is literally a fit problem for me, and I've had issues with some IEMs in the past. 

I did make a mistake though. Just measured my current IEMs and they have a 5mm bore which is fine but probably my upper limit for fit.

I'm not sure where you are getting your info about the Easonics. Not to say it isn't true, just that I didn't find anything, and read 100+ pages of this thread and didn't see any information about them. 

Anyway, based in what I can get here I just might try the Lypertek Tevi as they give me what I need and hopefully something better will come out at some point. 

Thanks


----------



## kolbo

85t just got a firmware update. 
I think the treble sounds a bit better but I could easily be imagining it.


----------



## Canabuc

kolbo said:


> 85t just got a firmware update.
> I think the treble sounds a bit better but I could easily be imagining it.


When today? That is my main gripe with them. That and I find the fit feels loose even thought it is secure. Think the ovval design does that. But if the treble is improved these will be my day drivers. It is the one think that makes XM3 Samsung and JBL over these.


----------



## kolbo

Canabuc said:


> When today? That is my main gripe with them. That and I find the fit feels loose even thought it is secure. Think the ovval design does that. But if the treble is improved these will be my day drivers. It is the one think that makes XM3 Samsung and JBL over these.


Today as far as I could see.


----------



## Canabuc

kolbo said:


> Today as far as I could see.


Will update when I get home. Read release notes am also excited they added ability to turn off ANC via the buttons as well like 75t! Now hearthrough ANC and off are toggles


----------



## Canabuc

Just got home firmware not showing up for me 😕


----------



## kolbo

Canabuc said:


> Just got home firmware not showing up for me 😕


Did you update the app?


----------



## FYLegend (Feb 2, 2021)

The 1More Dual Driver ANC TWS were finally growing on me after swapping out to the no-earhook sleeves, but just this week I ran into more issues and returned them today. The left bud would sometimes power on and connect while inside the case. Before the battery of the case would last about 2 days, but yesterday it only lasted about 1 day (~8 hours of listening).

I wonder if the Colorbuds Pro might be slightly lower-end due to the lower MSRP, and seeing it's based on the Colorbuds with presumably BA drivers, it might be geared towards an analytical tuning with less bass. My other concern is that while they are slated to have multipoint, that Bluetooth LE 5.2 multipoint won't be backward compatible with my current BT5.0 devices. For BT5.0, options may remain limited such as Jabra, Huawei, and VIVO...

*Final impressions:*
Sound - 8.5/10. Broad V-shape but generally sounds warm and dark. Punchy bass but slight mid-bass bloat. There's a hot spot in the treble that sounds borderline sibilant, but the detail retrieval is excellent similar to the 1More Triple Driver IEM. Soundstage and instrument separation is quite spacious, but they can sound terrible for Nujabes/lo-fi or vinyl rips due to excessive resolution. Perhaps just my ears but there's often a left channel volume imbalance but other times it sounds fine. With ANC on if I shove the left bud into my ears, the bass becomes too boomy and loud until I re-insert the buds.

Build quality: Charging case is nicely built with an anti-slip rubber bottom. However, the bottom does collect dust and lint quite easily. The earbuds themselves are another story - after repeated usage and removing the eartips/sleeves, the right earbud's housing started making a crackling sound (especially when squeezed) suggesting the plastic seams have become loose.

Connectivity 8.5/10  - Clunky older Qualcomm single-ear implementation. Playing/resuming tracks or changing the volume causes the audio to pan around before it settles.   Connection is relatively solid overall at home, but when I was using the left bud independently outdoors in a busy environment, it was very prone to cutting. Also dislike the fact that you must turn on ANC manually each time you use them and cycle through the touch controls to turn it off or use ambient mode. Ambient mode is quite clean with a constant level (I can play piano without it cutting or distorting in loud notes), but a bit low in volume.

Wearing detection/auto-pause can't be turned off (only an option whether to resume playback or not) which is disappointing as I had cases of unintentional auto-pauses when I was using ear-hooks.

Fit - 5/10 I struggled to get a seal with the larger earhooks which often pushed out my right ear such that I was hearing less treble than the right and getting unintentional auto-pauses on the left bud. The sleeves with no earhooks worked very well for me and seemed to stay in my ears better, but they would still slip out after prolonged use, not to mention when wearing a mask with tight ear loops.

Isolation 7/10 - For my ears these don't fit deep, more like "half in-ears" so passive isolation is medicore. ANC is decent mainly tames down/smooths background noises rather than reducing it. There's also some EMI static whether ANC is turned on or off. My commute is still very noisy thanks to the old-generation skytrains.

Battery life 6.5/10 - 4.5-5 hour at high volumes. Case battery is quite short lasting between 7-10 hours or between 1.5 days of usage. Sometimes the charging case LED indicator would show as yellow (medium) but then flash red (low) when I shut the lid and vice versa. I always preferred those step-LEDs as being more reliable than changing colours..


----------



## Canabuc

kolbo said:


> Did you update the app?


Oops! Updating now thx


----------



## FYLegend

jant71 said:


>


No ambient sound seems like a bit of an oversight at this day and age.

Curious if anyone has tried the original EPZ S350 here. I could only find one or two reviews/impressions saying they were more analytical/less bassy than Sabbat E12 Ultra.


----------



## webvan

XUPX said:


> Good to know! Thanks! But right now on search for some true wireless earphones.



The Sabbat X12 are great TWS earbuds, can't be beat for running (no thud) and pleasant enough sound. Now they ain't no L2Ps of course !


----------



## jant71 (Feb 2, 2021)

FYLegend said:


> No ambient sound seems like a bit of an oversight at this day and age.
> 
> Curious if anyone has tried the original EPZ S350 here. I could only find one or two reviews/impressions saying they were more analytical/less bassy than Sabbat E12 Ultra.



I think it is Chi-Fi. The adapters like Fiio and TRN and all these KZ, CCA, TRN TWS, the Moondrop Sparks, on and on don't do ambient. Lucky if they don't leave out volume controls or rewind.


----------



## Canabuc

Ok so updated the 85t. Listened in bed last night. Definite change in sound.
firstly, the treble is improved. Not quite to level of buds pro of jbl but much closer. It is a bit less sharp but some detail and airiness in the high end is now there that wasn’t before. One of my reference songs has some symbols that get hit in sequence where with Samsung they are noticeable and clear and sharp.
before the update the jabra and some other earbuds you can detect them but they were masked quite a bit and very dull. now they are close to the Samsung but a little less sharp. Same thing with the buzz o guitar strings of some different songs.

The secondary change which is related is that the sound stage seems wider and more airy and open. Songs now felt more coming from outside my head than before.

The upper mid bass is a bit less strong by comparison. It hits deeper and stronger than Samsung though.

my eq settings have changed to nearly flat with tiny bump in mid bass and treble whereas before all bass was pushed down a third and all treble up 50%.

Also they added functionality to button toggle for anc. Now you can cycle through off, hearthrough and ANC. Brief test of ANC and seems stronger too.  Had a you tube video on in den. 85t on no music playing. Listening at my usual tv volume. ANC on max and it was like tv was in mute except the faintest high frequency vocal sounds.

Overall very happy with sound and very close to the top tier XM3 now Except with better controls case with Qi charging, fit, ip rating......


----------



## bladefd

Canabuc said:


> Ok so updated the 85t. Listened in bed last night. Definite change in sound.
> firstly, the treble is improved. Not quite to level of buds pro of jbl but much closer. It is a bit less sharp but some detail and airiness in the high end is now there that wasn’t before. One of my reference songs has some symbols that get hit in sequence where with Samsung they are noticeable and clear and sharp.
> before the update the jabra and some other earbuds you can detect them but they were masked quite a bit and very dull. now they are close to the Samsung but a little less sharp. Same thing with the buzz o guitar strings of some different songs.
> 
> ...



Search finally finished??


----------



## erockg (Feb 2, 2021)

AirPods Pro vs Earin A-3 pics.  Still testing out the Earin, but wow, so tiny.  Open ear design.  Fits well.  Decent soundstage.  Bass depending on your fit.  Did I say they were TINY???  No, not better than the Devialet Gemini, MTW2 and the like, but that's not really what they're going for here.


----------



## tma6

Canabuc said:


> Ok so updated the 85t. Listened in bed last night. Definite change in sound.
> firstly, the treble is improved. Not quite to level of buds pro of jbl but much closer. It is a bit less sharp but some detail and airiness in the high end is now there that wasn’t before. One of my reference songs has some symbols that get hit in sequence where with Samsung they are noticeable and clear and sharp.
> before the update the jabra and some other earbuds you can detect them but they were masked quite a bit and very dull. now they are close to the Samsung but a little less sharp. Same thing with the buzz o guitar strings of some different songs.
> 
> ...



Agreed on the update on the 85ts. Treble is less mushy and they now have greater clarity and realism to cymbal hits. Honestly, I've tried pretty much everything outside of the new galaxy buds pro and the Jabras are my favorite as an overall package. I think when EQ'd they actually have one of the best midrange and bass presentations on any TWS, and now the treble is more in line with the other frequencies. Also still the best staging on any TWS I've tried too. I'm a fan of the xm3 but they sound a little artificial compared w the 85ts. 

As for features, for such a small and comfortable bud the ANC is actualy fantastic, and the transparancy mode is as close to APP as I've experienced. Calls are a bit of a mixed bag in terms of letting in a bit too much ambient noise, but even then the person on the other line can always hear me, and in quiet environments they're fantastic. Also the ability to multi pair and press one button to mute is fantastic. This update also allows you to toggle the ANC off with a button press rather than just switch between ANC and transparency, which took them way too long to do IMO. 

These are the complete package and were my top choice before this update, but this puts them even further ahead to me. Nothing else that I've tried is as well rounded and polished.


----------



## Canabuc

bladefd said:


> Search finally finished??


Looking that way. These or Samsung if I can fix the fit give me the sound I love with the Constellation of features I want.
My ears getting more used to Samsung and seems you can insert them wrong in the ears. Doing it like the picture and now not painful but still not as comfortable as I would like. Experiment with comply tips added comfort but they are not right size or shape. Think they would be great choice when comply or someone makes 3rd party foam tips.

Also apparently firmware update to improve ANC and transparency though haven't gotten that update to test yet.


----------



## Canabuc

tma6 said:


> Agreed on the update on the 85ts. Treble is less mushy and they now have greater clarity and realism to cymbal hits. Honestly, I've tried pretty much everything outside of the new galaxy buds pro and the Jabras are my favorite as an overall package. I think when EQ'd they actually have one of the best midrange and bass presentations on any TWS, and now the treble is more in line with the other frequencies. Also still the best staging on any TWS I've tried too. I'm a fan of the xm3 but they sound a little artificial compared w the 85ts.
> 
> 
> These are the complete package and were my top choice before this update, but this puts them even further ahead to me. Nothing else that I've tried is as well rounded and polished.



Agreed. I would describe the sound as the most natural. 

XM3 were great but had an electronic digital feel to the sound.

Buds pro. Sound great very clear and crisp with good bass. Treble has great but but can be a tiny bit harsh on some tracks due to how sharp it is.

85t. Great bass, great soundstage. Most natural sound with softer treble, not as crisp as Samsung but feels most like what I would hear through a speaker or live .

AZ70W. Great mids and nice silly vocals and treble but weakest bass of the 4 keeping it or if top 3 for me in sound.

JBL. Also great sound and arguably the best sounding after playing with their amazing parametric equalizer.
But weakest ANC of the 4 if that's important.


----------



## vladzakhar (Feb 2, 2021)

erockg said:


> AirPods Pro vs Earin A-3 pics.  Still testing out the Earin, but wow, so tiny.  Open ear design.  Fits well.  Decent soundstage.  Bass depending on your fit.  Did I say they were TINY???  No, not better than the Devialet Gemini, MTW2 and the like, but that's not really what they're going for here.


This is the reason I sent A-3's back. The fit was bad for me, no matter what I did. I had to push them in with my hands to get the decent bass.
Great customer service, though. DHL picked it up to send it back to Sweden.


----------



## erockg

vladzakhar said:


> This is the reason I sent A-3's back. The fit was bad for me, no matter what I did. I had to push them in with my hands to get the decent bass.
> Great customer service, though. DHL picked it up to send it back to Sweden.


I'm not having any fit issues so far, but I do wish the bass port on them would fit flush to my conch.  Then the bass would be more powerful.  That said, these are open-ear, and they definitely sound better than the first and second gen AirPods.  Yes, Earin has a stellar return policy, warranty and they're always spot on with support.  I've had all their buds and have loved them all for various reasons.  Sorry they didn't work out.  Rumor has it another model might be coming...


----------



## turbobb

Following up on my last post, have been looking into aptX Adaptive (to assess latency) as well as BT 5.2 for the new LE Audio and LC3 codec. A shame Win10 makes it so difficult to find relevant BT info like version and codec used but I found this excellent article describing how to do just that:
https://helgeklein.com/blog/2020/09...luetooth-a2dp-audio-codec-is-used-on-windows/
(another excellent geeky article that is linked from the above is: https://habr.com/en/post/456182/)

Win10 at some point clearly identified when one was using aptX with a small pop-up but that stopped after a specific upgrade (not sure which version...) although it does still support aptX. Following the steps in that article, I was able to verify that my Mavin Air-X are in fact using aptX. I have the TrueAir2 inbound and will see if I can get the values for the codec when they're here (given it's relatively new - will be relying the Bluetooth vendor IDs posted here [also linked in the article above]).

NOTE: I know you can easily verify the codec on Mac or Android but should be helpful for those on Win10 and iPhone combo plus it'll be interesting to help ID chips in lesser known Chi-Fi units.


----------



## helmutcheese (Feb 2, 2021)

Windows 10 is now aptX for a while, if your earphones do not support this it will be SBC.

AFAIK that small pop up with Codec was only if you installed the DELL drivers on specific BT cards, does not work on latest Intel WIFI/BT cards.

Bluetooth Tweaker (bluetoothgoodies.com)  < This will tell you but since I am on Win 10 DEV builds its seems to read me as using ACC codec which is obviously not true and it read as aptX correctly till I updated.to DEV's.

I would settle for aptX-HD on Win 10, no real need for LDAC.


----------



## Remiam7

vladzakhar said:


> This is the reason I sent A-3's back. The fit was bad for me, no matter what I did. I had to push them in with my hands to get the decent bass.
> Great customer service, though. DHL picked it up to send it back to Sweden.



this is the idea I came up with to improve the fit for my ears, which are on the smaller side.  I sacrificed a pair of my azla Sedna xelastic ear tips, carefully cut away the stem, then stretched the remaining tip over each A3 earbud.  I chose these ear tips because of the tacky texture.  Not sure if other ear tips will perform as these, but perhaps.


----------



## dj24

tma6 said:


> Agreed on the update on the 85ts. Treble is less mushy and they now have greater clarity and realism to cymbal hits. Honestly, I've tried pretty much everything outside of the new galaxy buds pro and the Jabras are my favorite as an overall package. I think when EQ'd they actually have one of the best midrange and bass presentations on any TWS, and now the treble is more in line with the other frequencies. Also still the best staging on any TWS I've tried too. I'm a fan of the xm3 but they sound a little artificial compared w the 85ts.
> 
> As for features, for such a small and comfortable bud the ANC is actualy fantastic, and the transparancy mode is as close to APP as I've experienced. Calls are a bit of a mixed bag in terms of letting in a bit too much ambient noise, but even then the person on the other line can always hear me, and in quiet environments they're fantastic. Also the ability to multi pair and press one button to mute is fantastic. This update also allows you to toggle the ANC off with a button press rather than just switch between ANC and transparency, which took them way too long to do IMO.
> 
> These are the complete package and were my top choice before this update, but this puts them even further ahead to me. Nothing else that I've tried is as well rounded and polished.



Hmm.  Not sure if you've had a chance to try out the 75t..  If so would you say that the call quality in regards to noise cancellation has regressed?  I was looking to upgrade from my 75 active to the 85 active once it's released but this gives me pause..


----------



## C_Lindbergh

Hmm maybe I should consider the 85t's until there are more options with LC3/Bluetooth LE, it seems to be a pretty solid package, sure a few earbuds might sound better, but almost none got multipoint except Jabra. I also really like the physical buttons instead of touch controls.


----------



## jant71

Remiam7 said:


> this is the idea I came up with to improve the fit for my ears, which are on the smaller side.  I sacrificed a pair of my azla Sedna xelastic ear tips, carefully cut away the stem, then stretched the remaining tip over each A3 earbud.  I chose these ear tips because of the tacky texture.  Not sure if other ear tips will perform as these, but perhaps.



Probably gonna grab the KEF to try an ANC model stick and with my Cleer goal instead of an A3 but still curious if that works with the case and they still charge or is it something you have to take off and put on again?


----------



## Remiam7

jant71 said:


> Probably gonna grab the KEF to try an ANC model stick and with my Cleer goal instead of an A3 but still curious if that works with the case and they still charge or is it something you have to take off and put on again?



I understand your decision.  And yes, it works with the case as far as charging.


----------



## jant71 (Feb 2, 2021)

If anyone is interested, I contacted KEF since I saw product pages on other countries KEF sites but nothing on KEF US. They said Feb. 4 for the release info. Hopefully is is out soon and not like a Nuarl situation where US is a while later.

Probably should have told them to make sure they work right before you put them out.


----------



## tma6

dj24 said:


> Hmm.  Not sure if you've had a chance to try out the 75t..  If so would you say that the call quality in regards to noise cancellation has regressed?  I was looking to upgrade from my 75 active to the 85 active once it's released but this gives me pause..



Yup I trialed the 75ts. It’s hard to know for sure but I’d say call quality is about the same for both. If you’re fine w the 75ts then you should be good w the 85ts too


----------



## Thesonofkrypton

jant71 said:


> If anyone is interested, I contacted KEF since I saw product pages on other countries KEF sites but nothing on KEF US. They said Feb. 4 for the release info. Hopefully is is out soon and not like a Nuarl situation where US is a while later.
> 
> Probably should have told them to make sure they work right before you put them out.



Good to know roughly when the ETA is with the KEF. Hope it’s not a repeat of the Melomania Touch.


----------



## Subrising (Feb 2, 2021)

In terms of microphone quality is there any of these that are distinctly better than others in the $300 AUD ($200 USD) price range as I'll be using these as a primary work microphone when on the go and potentially at the gym. Been looking at L2P or 85t or APP so far.


----------



## tma6

Subrising said:


> In terms of microphone quality is there any of these that are distinctly better than others in the $300 AUD ($200 USD) price range as I'll be using these as a primary work microphone when on the go and potentially at the gym. Been looking at L2P or 85t or APP so far.



1. APP
2. 85t 
3. L2P


----------



## Leeco

tma6 said:


> 1. APP
> 2. 85t
> 3. L2P


If your primary phone is an iPhone, APP... 
But be careful if you carry an Android phone, while APP does work, it’s just decent at best with an Android. A lot of people here on head-fi “blindly” recommend APP for voice calls, nor realizing that there is a HUGE difference between voice quality on iPhone and Android when using APP.
There are lots of YouTube videos comparing different brands with each other, so I recommend you watch some of those.


----------



## tma6 (Feb 2, 2021)

Leeco said:


> If your primary phone is an iPhone, APP...
> But be careful if you carry an Android phone, while APP does work, it’s just decent at best with an Android. A lot of people here on head-fi “blindly” recommend APP for voice calls, nor realizing that there is a HUGE difference between voice quality on iPhone and Android when using APP.
> There are lots of YouTube videos comparing different brands with each other, so I recommend you watch some of those.



Lol it’s not blind. Was just tryna rank the ones he listed for call q from my experience. I do have an iPhone so it worked great for me. Sq is very meh tho imo. My bad tho, if calls are not good on Android, then go w 85ts or some of the soundcore airs have good call q.


----------



## Canabuc

Subrising said:


> In terms of microphone quality is there any of these that are distinctly better than others in the $300 AUD ($200 USD) price range as I'll be using these as a primary work microphone when on the go and potentially at the gym. Been looking at L2P or 85t or APP so far.


L2P not great for mic quality and no ambient sound. If not Apple user go 85t


----------



## chinmie

Subrising said:


> In terms of microphone quality is there any of these that are distinctly better than others in the $300 AUD ($200 USD) price range as I'll be using these as a primary work microphone when on the go and potentially at the gym. Been looking at L2P or 85t or APP so far.



i haven't compared them personally, but if only based on the many youtube comparison videos, the Samsung Buds+, Buds Live, Buds Pro are top contenders for mic quality (the latter two seems to be similar). other than that, the Jabras are also consistently good for that regard. 

the best I've ever heard (or should i say, watched) is this Edifier


----------



## tma6

chinmie said:


> i haven't compared them personally, but if only based on the many youtube comparison videos, the Samsung Buds+, Buds Live, Buds Pro are top contenders for mic quality (the latter two seems to be similar). other than that, the Jabras are also consistently good for that regard.
> 
> the best I've ever heard (or should i say, watched) is this Edifier




Ohhhh yeah galaxy buds + might actually be the best. They’re awesome for calls.


----------



## voicemaster

As someone with LDR, I can confirm that the galaxy buds plus, live and pro are excellent for calling.


----------



## bronco1015

Subrising said:


> In terms of microphone quality is there any of these that are distinctly better than others in the $300 AUD ($200 USD) price range as I'll be using these as a primary work microphone when on the go and potentially at the gym. Been looking at L2P or 85t or APP so far.


I've been using pixelbuds for calls for work, conference calls etc, i can leave my phone on my desk and walk all through the apartment and people can still hear me well on a call. These may not be bad for the gym either, they let a decent but not overwhelming amount of sound in.


----------



## CocaCola15 (Feb 2, 2021)

After some serious ear time, sorry to say I am returning the Cambridge Audio Melomania Touch. Having some fit issues and also the right bud won’t charge past 50%. Even after a FW update.
On the upside, I an keeping the Status Audio Between Pro BT phones, a serious steal at $79 via Indiegogo. Triple driver model, great fit, buttons not touch (my preference). Some buyers report crackling issues in the left earphone. So far so good. They just plain sound right, from every cymbal hit to a tight, taught bass line. No EQ required. I’d pay full freight for them, just got lucky going the crowdsource route, I guess. Always a risk.  
I am not alone loving these BT buds.


----------



## erockg

Remiam7 said:


> this is the idea I came up with to improve the fit for my ears, which are on the smaller side.  I sacrificed a pair of my azla Sedna xelastic ear tips, carefully cut away the stem, then stretched the remaining tip over each A3 earbud.  I chose these ear tips because of the tacky texture.  Not sure if other ear tips will perform as these, but perhaps.


Can you post some pics?  Sounds interesting.  Would love to see.


----------



## Subrising

Cheers for the help and recommendations guys! Yeah I'm an android user so I'll probably take a look at the galaxy buds or 85ts then.


----------



## erockg

erockg said:


> Can you post some pics?  Sounds interesting.  Would love to see.


Well, the honeymoon is over for me.  As of yesterday, my A-3 have stopped working.  One bud won't even power on and the other keeps going through what looks like to be a firmware reset over and over.  Not sure what is up and I've email Earin support 3x and haven't heard back.  Fingers crossed...


----------



## samandhi

Anyone know of a good set of TWS that has reference tuning? I have the Hifiman TWS600 and find them pretty good, but they are just way too hot in the mid range without a ton of EQing. I also tried the Melomania Touch based on "professional" reviews that said they are tuned neutral (not even close), and while I DO like them and probably will keep them, I am looking for something more neutral/reference for a TWS.


----------



## erockg

For those having issues with their Devialet Gemini, I received this response from support and it seems to have fixed my issues.  Hope it help some of you!

Hello,

Thank you for your response.

Your headphones are up to date, good news.

I invite you to perform the following manipulation:

- Remove and put the earphones one by one in the case.
- Close the case
- Press the button, and in the meantime
- Open/close the case twice in a row
- Release the button

Did the light turn flashing orange and then green for a moment?

If yes, the reset has been well done, and you will be able to put the box in pairing mode again.

Forget in your phone's Bluetooth settings any device linked to Gemini.

Then repair with Gemini L and pair with R.

This should solve the problem you are experiencing.

Feel free to come back to me if you need me.

Wishing you a very nice day!


----------



## samandhi

erockg said:


> For those having issues with their Devialet Gemini, I received this response from support and it seems to have fixed my issues.  Hope it help some of you!
> 
> Hello,
> 
> ...


.......... Stand on one foot, turn in a circle, then turn them back on.


----------



## Forceberg

erockg said:


> For those having issues with their Devialet Gemini, I received this response from support and it seems to have fixed my issues.  Hope it help some of you!
> 
> Hello,
> 
> ...



yeah that’s the reset for Geminis, but for me no :/
Something is broken, I get 5 % sound of left earbud. When put in charging case they start making a weird noise.
I purchased from a local dealer and they won’t replace them as the % of people having issues and returning them are too high.
Even of mine worked (right now) I would return them and wait until they do a re-launch with some seriously improved QC.

or purchase the new Kefs and hope for the best


----------



## erockg

samandhi said:


> .......... Stand on one foot, turn in a circle, then turn them back on.


I do that every day, I don't need them to tell me.  #PandemicLifeWorkFromHome


----------



## erockg

Forceberg said:


> yeah that’s the reset for Geminis, but for me no :/
> Something is broken, I get 5 % sound of left earbud. When put in charging case they start making a weird noise.
> I purchased from a local dealer and they won’t replace them as the % of people having issues and returning them are too high.
> Even of mine worked (right now) I would return them and wait until they do a re-launch with some seriously improved QC.
> ...


Try reaching out to Devialet.  They've been very responsive.


----------



## Forceberg

erockg said:


> Try reaching out to Devialet.  They've been very responsive.



yes! They have been helpful with all my issues, connection, battery, channel imbalance, failed fit tests. No complaints from me regarding Devialet support.

Their reply was ”wait for new firmware” then I got a new email saying ”return them”. That tells me they dont know what is the problem and they dont know when they have a fix.

Really sad because I think they sound terrific :/


----------



## Forceberg

Also if it was a firmware issue and the solution was somewhat imminent I find it hard to believe they’d recommend me to return them. Especially after I explicitly explained how to them that I was very happy with the sound when working.


----------



## Thesonofkrypton (Feb 3, 2021)

Anyone bite on the KEF Mu3? At £199 it’s tempting with ANC, possible good fit from images, wireless charging case, 8.3mm driver, KEF tuning. Apparently according to their blurb, a signal is sent to both earpieces at the same time and it’s not a master slave scenario as with Melomania Touch. 

Would have normally bought this on sight but don’t want a repeat of the Melomania Touch scenario, so waiting on reviews this time! But on paper it seems better.


----------



## dweaver

samandhi said:


> Anyone know of a good set of TWS that has reference tuning? I have the Hifiman TWS600 and find them pretty good, but they are just way too hot in the mid range without a ton of EQing. I also tried the Melomania Touch based on "professional" reviews that said they are tuned neutral (not even close), and while I DO like them and probably will keep them, I am looking for something more neutral/reference for a TWS.


You might like the Audio Technica AZ70, i find it has more reference level bass for sure, its mids are elevated but not harshly, treble is well defined without becoming sibilant, decent sound stage.


----------



## cresny

Forceberg said:


> yes! They have been helpful with all my issues, connection, battery, channel imbalance, failed fit tests. No complaints from me regarding Devialet support.
> 
> Their reply was ”wait for new firmware” then I got a new email saying ”return them”. That tells me they dont know what is the problem and they dont know when they have a fix.
> 
> Really sad because I think they sound terrific :/


It does seem your situation would take probably more than a FW update to fix, but it is hard to say with these. When mine do a cold connect there's sometimes a slow fade from Right to Left, so maybe your Right -> Left communication is somehow stuck? On my first pair I had a dead chamber, rendered useless by a failed flash. Support told me I had to return them, and I did, but I very much suspect that had it allowed me to re-flash it would have fixed itself.


----------



## erockg

Forceberg said:


> yes! They have been helpful with all my issues, connection, battery, channel imbalance, failed fit tests. No complaints from me regarding Devialet support.
> 
> Their reply was ”wait for new firmware” then I got a new email saying ”return them”. That tells me they dont know what is the problem and they dont know when they have a fix.
> 
> Really sad because I think they sound terrific :/


Maybe explain the situation and see if they'll send a replacement.  Then flip them on Ebay.  Just spitballing.  I usually buy from Amazon or Ebay so I get their great return policy.  Easier.  Sorry you're having issues.


----------



## erockg

Forceberg said:


> Also if it was a firmware issue and the solution was somewhat imminent I find it hard to believe they’d recommend me to return them. Especially after I explicitly explained how to them that I was very happy with the sound when working.


Ah, didn't see this response.  Well, they're a reputable company, so hopefully they come through for all of us.


----------



## samandhi

dweaver said:


> You might like the Audio Technica AZ70, i find it has more reference level bass for sure, its mids are elevated but not harshly, treble is well defined without becoming sibilant, decent sound stage.


Ahh, thank you! I will give them a look.


----------



## voicemaster

So there is an updated firmware for the galaxy buds pro and I noticed the ambiance mode has less hiss on all levels, especially on High and Ultra High. It also sounds less artificial and more natural. I usually go with High setting before the update and now, I am comfortable using Medium setting. 
Also, the ANC got a nice upgrade from previous firmware. Now, the low noise is completely blocked even on low setting. The high is also cancelled quite considerably more than before.


----------



## Forceberg

cresny said:


> It does seem your situation would take probably more than a FW update to fix, but it is hard to say with these. When mine do a cold connect there's sometimes a slow fade from Right to Left, so maybe your Right -> Left communication is somehow stuck? On my first pair I had a dead chamber, rendered useless by a failed flash. Support told me I had to return them, and I did, but I very much suspect that had it allowed me to re-flash it would have fixed itself.



yeah I had that too XD
It seem Ive had every bug known.
But yeah it starts from left, then going right except I never get the sound back to the left. Plus the weird noise they make, could possibly be hardwear fault, hard to tell.



erockg said:


> Ah, didn't see this response.  Well, they're a reputable company, so hopefully they come through for all of us.



yeah Im not worried in that sense. I’m a regular at the dealer so they will refund me unless they get the go ahead from Devialet to sell them again. I’m not sure I want to wait, might try the KEF Mu3 and hope they are good 
Devialet support has been great for me. One might question though how a 300 usd pair of buds are not tested more before release hmm.


----------



## samandhi

dweaver said:


> You might like the Audio Technica AZ70, i find it has more reference level bass for sure, its mids are elevated but not harshly, treble is well defined without becoming sibilant, decent sound stage.


I could only find  Technics EAH-AZ70W, nothing from Audio Technica for AZ70. I assume this is the one you are talking about?


----------



## erockg

Forceberg said:


> yeah I had that too XD
> It seem Ive had every bug known.
> But yeah it starts from left, then going right except I never get the sound back to the left. Plus the weird noise they make, could possibly be hardwear fault, hard to tell.
> 
> ...


Most of this stuff is assembled/made in China.  I'm sure those facilities are getting hammered during the pandemic.  Probably why some releases are being rushed out, delayed or even cancelled.  Hopefully they make things right for us all.


----------



## tinyman392

samandhi said:


> I could only find  Technics EAH-AZ70W, nothing from Audio Technica for AZ70. I assume this is the one you are talking about?



Google gave me links to the Technics AZ70 when I googled it.


----------



## erockg

erockg said:


> Most of this stuff is assembled/made in China.  I'm sure those facilities are getting hammered during the pandemic.  Probably why some releases are being rushed out, delayed or even cancelled.  Hopefully they make things right for us all.


I just got the Earin A-3 and one of the buds died.  Literally, the day after I received them from Sweden.  Their sending a replacement, but still very very frustrating.


----------



## Canabuc (Feb 3, 2021)

voicemaster said:


> So there is an updated firmware for the galaxy buds pro and I noticed the ambiance mode has less hiss on all levels, especially on High and Ultra High. It also sounds less artificial and more natural. I usually go with High setting before the update and now, I am comfortable using Medium setting.
> Also, the ANC got a nice upgrade from previous firmware. Now, the low noise is completely blocked even on low setting. The high is also cancelled quite considerably more than before.


I love their sound probably tied with top sounding earbud for me. But I can't find a comfortable solution.

So I either pony up for Sennheiser or Bose each with their own issues or settle for the overall very good sound and features of jabra sacrificing the best to me sound quality.... It these were only as comfy as the previous generation but with the new hardware upgrades.


----------



## erockg

Canabuc said:


> I love their sound probably tied with top sounding earbud for me. But I can't find a comfortable solution.
> 
> So I either weekend up for Sennheiser or Bose each with their own issues or settle for the overall very good sound and features of jabra sacrificing the best to me sound quality.... It these were only as comfy as the previous generation but with the new hardware upgrades.


I went with Comply tips and it's really helped the fit for me.


----------



## Canabuc

erockg said:


> I went with Comply tips and it's really helped the fit for me.


Which ones fit without being too big for the case on the Samsungs


----------



## erockg

Canabuc said:


> Which ones fit without being too big for the case on the Samsungs


Whoops, thought you were referring to a different set of buds...


----------



## Canabuc

erockg said:


> Whoops, thought you were referring to a different set of buds...


Which buds? My final choice is down to 85t and Samsung. Prefer Samsung sounds a bit but having fit/comfort issues


----------



## erockg

Canabuc said:


> Which buds? My final choice is down to 85t and Samsung. Prefer Samsung sounds a bit but having fit/comfort issues


The ones you don't have lol... Devialet.


----------



## voicemaster

Canabuc said:


> I love their sound probably tied with top sounding earbud for me. But I can't find a comfortable solution.
> 
> So I either pony up for Sennheiser or Bose each with their own issues or settle for the overall very good sound and features of jabra sacrificing the best to me sound quality.... It these were only as comfy as the previous generation but with the new hardware upgrades.


Well thats sad you can't get comfortable fit with the pro. It fits me perfectly with the Largest tips.


----------



## rhsauer

The Soundcore Liberty Air 2 Pro just got firmware upgrade that, among other things, added a fit test.


----------



## Canabuc

erockg said:


> The ones you don't have lol... Devialet.


Oh. Think they might be fixing those before putting them back for sale. Seems noone is selling them right now.
Hopefully for you a firmware fix will help or you can get refund if still a problem.


----------



## erockg

Canabuc said:


> Oh. Think they might be fixing those before putting them back for sale. Seems noone is selling them right now.
> Hopefully for you a firmware fix will help or you can get refund if still a problem.


Support gave a a reset process (posted it few post pages ago) that fixed my issues.  I've been using mine all day on work Zoom calls and for music without any issues - Famous last words...


----------



## cresny

erockg said:


> Support gave a a reset process (posted it few post pages ago) that fixed my issues.  I've been using mine all day on work Zoom calls and for music without any issues - Famous last words...


Given the issues posted, I get that folks would want to stay away from the Geminis. But given their capability, I suggest that anyone in the market wait until the firmware is released before passing on these. For me, I would not regret my purchase even if it never gets released


----------



## Canabuc

People can't buy them now. I had a coupon code to buy at local retailer and then they got pulled.

Meanwhile I have been listening alot to the Samsung buds pro and they are phenomenal. If if could just improve the comfort.


----------



## soullinker20

erockg said:


> For those having issues with their Devialet Gemini, I received this response from support and it seems to have fixed my issues.  Hope it help some of you!
> 
> Hello,
> 
> ...



I did this and it went well. my problem is the earbuds batt drains itself randomly. maybe just a firmware issue.


----------



## dweaver

samandhi said:


> I could only find  Technics EAH-AZ70W, nothing from Audio Technica for AZ70. I assume this is the one you are talking about?


Yup those are the ones. I think that model number is for the white ones.


----------



## assassin10000

Canabuc said:


> People can't buy them now. I had a coupon code to buy at local retailer and then they got pulled.
> 
> Meanwhile I have been listening alot to the Samsung buds pro and they are phenomenal. If if could just improve the comfort.



Try aftermarket APP foams? They come on oval adapters and can be removed easily to use on other TWS/IEMs.


----------



## Canabuc

assassin10000 said:


> Try aftermarket APP foams? They come on oval adapters and can be removed easily to use on other TWS/IEMs.


Can you explain the pics? You have to pull the adapter?  

Right now the stock tips on left is good. On right nothing is comfortable for long. Best is a comply tip I cut down to be shorter but still comfort is an issue for more than 30 minutes of listening. Better than before where I couldn't make it through a song....


----------



## tinyman392

assassin10000 said:


> Try aftermarket APP foams? They come on oval adapters and can be removed easily to use on other TWS/IEMs.



I’m not sure if they’ve gotten any better, but the last pair I got (generic Chinese foam tip for the APP) separated from the the plastic core...  Also, the plastic cracked when I removed it.  I’d argue that Comply foam is likely better though.


----------



## erockg

soullinker20 said:


> I did this and it went well. my problem is the earbuds batt drains itself randomly. maybe just a firmware issue.


I use them so much, I haven't noticed -- yet.


----------



## soullinker20

erockg said:


> I use them so much, I haven't noticed -- yet.



Few days ago after I used them i disconnected them on my laptop and turned off the bluetooth. Made sure that the buds are well placed on the chamber, then when I was about to use it yesterday, the left earbud has 3-4% batt left, the right earbud having  90ish. After charging for a while and checked it, the right earbud went down to 80ish. weird.


----------



## erockg

soullinker20 said:


> Few days ago after I used them i disconnected them on my laptop and turned off the bluetooth. Made sure that the buds are well placed on the chamber, then when I was about to use it yesterday, the left earbud has 3-4% batt left, the right earbud having  90ish. After charging for a while and checked it, the right earbud went down to 80ish. weird.


Strange.  I do know that sometimes I have to open and close the case right after I stop listening to make them disconnect from my iPhone.  Haven't connected to a computer yet.  I'd reach out to Devialet.  Worth a shot.


----------



## samandhi

dweaver said:


> Yup those are the ones. I think that model number is for the white ones.


OK. Cool! I have been looking at them, and they DO seem to be what I am looking for. Gonna have to wait to replenish my "obsession fund", as I just bought the Hifiman TWS600, Melomania Touch, and the Hifiman Deva (which I LOVE btw)... Thanks again.


----------



## soullinker20

erockg said:


> Strange.  I do know that sometimes I have to open and close the case right after I stop listening to make them disconnect from my iPhone.  Haven't connected to a computer yet.  I'd reach out to Devialet.  Worth a shot.



Yeah, emailed them and here is the response:

To fix the problem, please try the followings:
  
1. Get a clean microfiber eyeglass cleaning cloth to clean the earbuds pins (the 4 tiny metal pins) and the holder where you place the earbuds in the Chamber.  

2. Please leave the charging case plugged in with both earbud inside + the charging case closed, for 2 hours.  

3. After 2 hours, try the below instructions to see if the LED light starts blinking:  
* slide open  
* take out the left earbud (LED green one time) and place it back in the chamber (LED green one time)  
* take out the right earbud (LED green one time) and place it back in the chamber (LED green one time)  

Note: when placing any of the earbud back in the casing, 
* If LED blink Red it means the earbud needs to be charged so place both of them back in the casing. 
* If LED blink Orange or Green when placing back both earbuds then you proceed with next step. 

4. Kindly uninstall Gemini app and install it again.
   1. Delete an app from the App Library and Home Screen: Touch and hold the app in the App Library to open a quick actions menu, tap Delete App, then tap Delete.
   2. Re-install Gemini app

5. Pair your Gemini by following the steps below  
  1. Slide up the casing  
  2. Press the front button of your casing for 2 seconds (Blinking white LED light)  
  3. Activate the Bluetooth of your Phone  
  4. Select Gemini L and wait till a pop appears to authorize a connection to the Gemini R (Android), or Headset (ios).  

Please let me know the outcome.


----------



## assassin10000 (Feb 3, 2021)

Canabuc said:


> Can you explain the pics? You have to pull the adapter?
> 
> Right now the stock tips on left is good. On right nothing is comfortable for long. Best is a comply tip I cut down to be shorter but still comfort is an issue for more than 30 minutes of listening. Better than before where I couldn't make it through a song....



You just remove the foam tips from the adapter, just like removing a foam tip from an IEM. It slips or pulls off.



tinyman392 said:


> I’m not sure if they’ve gotten any better, but the last pair I got (generic Chinese foam tip for the APP) separated from the the plastic core...  Also, the plastic cracked when I removed it.  I’d argue that Comply foam is likely better though.



Yeah, not a huge surprise. We're removing them from the adapter anyways, so it's a non-issue. As I'm not using them on APP's.


----------



## Canabuc

assassin10000 said:


> You just remove the foam tips from the adapter, just like removing a foam tip from an IEM. It slips or pulls off.
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah, not a huge surprise. We're removing them from the adapter anyways, so it's a non-issue. As I'm not using them on APP's.


Do you have link to purchase?


----------



## assassin10000

Canabuc said:


> Do you have link to purchase?



https://a.aliexpress.com/_msPo7NX


----------



## Canabuc

assassin10000 said:


> https://a.aliexpress.com/_msPo7NX


Was hoping for Amazon. These won't arrive before return period. Thanks anyway


----------



## DigDub

Still waiting for the firmware update to appear for my buds pro.


----------



## erockg

soullinker20 said:


> Yeah, emailed them and here is the response:
> 
> To fix the problem, please try the followings:
> 
> ...


Wow.  Well if that didn’t work and you’re still under warranty they need to replace them.


----------



## Canabuc

DigDub said:


> Still waiting for the firmware update to appear for my buds pro.


Only out in USA so far😕


----------



## voicemaster

DigDub said:


> Still waiting for the firmware update to appear for my buds pro.


Just go and do manually.


----------



## assassin10000

Canabuc said:


> Was hoping for Amazon. These won't arrive before return period. Thanks anyway



Quick search of 'foam airpod pro tips' on Amazon.

https://smile.amazon.com/dp/B08B3P795X/


----------



## Canabuc

assassin10000 said:


> Quick search of 'foam airpod pro tips' on Amazon.
> 
> https://smile.amazon.com/dp/B08B3P795X/


Ordered will be worth a shot.


----------



## Mlaihk

For those fortunate ones getting the Galaxy Buds Pro for free, try them with different ear tips before you trash them.  I am pleasantly surprised when I put AZLA Xelastic and Azla SednaEarFit short on them.  Their SQ is very close to my MTW2 with the Azla SednaEarFit short, and the buds pro's ANC actually works very well.


----------



## DigDub

voicemaster said:


> Just go and do manually.


I checked again and the update is available now in the wareable app.


----------



## DigDub

Canabuc said:


> Only out in USA so far😕


Just checked and it's now available in Singapore. ANC blocks more external human voices now. Bass seems a tad deeper.


----------



## chifihead

Mlaihk said:


> For those fortunate ones getting the Galaxy Buds Pro for free, try them with different ear tips before you trash them.  I am pleasantly surprised when I put AZLA Xelastic and Azla SednaEarFit short on them.  Their SQ is very close to my MTW2 with the Azla SednaEarFit short, and the buds pro's ANC actually works very well.


Wait, people are trashing the buds pros? But crinacle gave them a very high score, the best globally-available TWS in fact! 

Does the case accommodate the Azla shorts? 

Also, is there a 'Clear' setting in the app and does it improve sound quality? (It does on the Buds Plus)


----------



## monsieurfromag3

Thesonofkrypton said:


> Anyone bite on the KEF Mu3? At £199 it’s tempting with ANC, possible good fit from images, wireless charging case, 8.3mm driver, KEF tuning. Apparently according to their blurb, a signal is sent to both earpieces at the same time and it’s not a master slave scenario as with Melomania Touch.
> 
> Would have normally bought this on sight but don’t want a repeat of the Melomania Touch scenario, so waiting on reviews this time! But on paper it seems better.


Bought! For my wife, who loved her M500, and also because there’s AAC and no aptX so it’s perfect for her iOS systems. I’ll be sure to test it too and report back.


----------



## voicemaster

DigDub said:


> Just checked and it's now available in Singapore. ANC blocks more external human voices now. Bass seems a tad deeper.


Should try the ambiance mode and hear how natural the sound now.


----------



## voicemaster

chifihead said:


> Wait, people are trashing the buds pros? But crinacle gave them a very high score, the best globally-available TWS in fact!
> 
> Does the case accommodate the Azla shorts?
> 
> Also, is there a 'Clear' setting in the app and does it improve sound quality? (It does on the Buds Plus)


Some people can't get a good fit which is pretty normal for iem. Then there are people who is super sensitif for treble and find the pro too fatiguing. Another one is some people don't use samsung phone so no "superior" codec. 
From the gbuds live and pro, the normal setting actually sounds the best from all other settings. 
Bass boost = muddy
Soft = less muddy
Dynamic = more fun, but a bit too much mid bass boost for my liking
Clear = the sound become a bit too thin imho
Treble boost = no!


----------



## Canabuc

voicemaster said:


> Should try the ambiance mode and hear how natural the sound now.


Got the update to though the information in it says same thing as last update when though the firmware number is new


----------



## tiagopinto

Dregur said:


> Well, it looks like my time with the Melomania Touch has come to an end. Just sent in my RMA to return the earbuds. Even after the firmware update these were the problems I kept having:
> 
> Headphones will not pair together: Cannot factory reset left bud after right bud was factory reset, and now they will not pair together.
> Issues with inconsistent bluetooth connection
> ...



I also had a few issues with the upgrade, eventually having to factory reset them and start over (the left one was stubborn to be recognized and kept turning itself off). After reset, they are now behaving fine. They assumed the latest firmware version (I guess 1.2.3).

I’ll be testing their behavior in the next few days. I’d hate to part with them because I really like the sound and the fit. For the price I believe it’d be hard to get better. But I’m open to change if the sound quality is similar, mainly, but also if the battery and fit (with fins) are similar.

To me they only lack ANC (I don’t use it often and I know it normally changes the sound a little, but I’d like to have it when I need it), Qi charging and maybe a wind noise supressor when in Transparency Mode (because I use them when I ride my mountain bike and they pick up too much wind noise on the mics). 
Other than these three features, I’m fine.


----------



## tiagopinto

MCPT said:


> Ouch.  I literally have the Melomania Touch white ear buds and black case in my cart and came here to check and make sure current owners are still finding them to be better since the update.  Are any other owners still happy with them and finding them to be mostly reliable?  If so, I may still take the plunge.



To put you in perspective, I must tell you that the most important feature for me is the sound. A flat frequency response (harder to get in wireless earbuds) and trying to get the sound that the artist intended for me to listen. This is the main issue. 
Then... I use an iPhone so different codecs are, for me, useless. AAC works just fine on my Xs. Then, I never equalize and rarely use the app, unless for firmware updates or sometimes checking the battery. Then, I’m very meticulous and careful with my tech and my gadgets so dealing with the products intricacies and details is almost a hobby.

Having said that, I too am looking for the “perfect” wireless earbuds for a reasonable budget. What’s reasonable? Well, being thoroughly imbedded in the Apple environment, I found the AirPods to be really crappy and the Pro’s too expensive. I still own and use Jaybird Bluebuds X (from back in the day) but the sound quality is under par. 

So, I’d been eyeing the Melomania 1 but felt they lacked what I needed. I love sound but other features are also welcome, specially when they are available in the market. 
I bought a pair of Liberty Air 2’s for my wife this Christmas, tried them out, found the sound to be a little too “digital” but the rest is ok and they are fine for her demands, which mostly were to pick up calls in the car, be able to use them independently and occasionally listen to music or watch stuff on the iPad. If I had waited ‘till after Xmas I would have gotten her the Pro’s and she would get ANC. Such is the tech life nowadays, specially in true wireless buds, where there’s a new model each friggin’ day, incorporating the feature you wanted yesterday. 

Final thought... yes, buy the Melomania Touch. After this latest firmware update and also according to a few reports, they are working fine and you will love their sound.


----------



## tiagopinto

bladefd said:


> It's been working well for me since the firmware update. Connection issues I used to have are solved. I really like the sound quality and am probably keeping them.
> 
> That reminds me I have to check microphone quality for couple posters here. Forgot to do it.



Exactly!


----------



## Canabuc

If ANC is important the 85t with latest firmware is wow!
Snow removal trucks outside my bedroom very noisy. ANC on with nothing playing and nothing!
Buds pro reduced the noise but could still hear it.

Comfort wise also the 85t are great lying in bed after 15 min I almost don't feel them in my ears.

As for sound playing with the EQ and raising the treble up a fair bit and tiny drop in bass and midrange and the sound is much more detailed than before. Not quite up to Samsung treble detail, but nice natural sound and the Cumberland etc are cleared than before and not hidden in the music. 

Unless a different tip can fix the Samsung's comfort issues I think my search is over for best all around ear buds.

If course when I began this journey I also ordered the Fiil t1pro as a cheaper experiment based on great reviews. These will arrive any day.

Any Fiil t1 pro users rate the sound quality to the more expensive bugs discussed here? Just sound not ANC or transparency. And yes will have access to the Chinese app.


----------



## tinyman392

chifihead said:


> Wait, people are trashing the buds pros? But crinacle gave them a very high score, the best globally-available TWS in fact!
> 
> Does the case accommodate the Azla shorts?
> 
> Also, is there a 'Clear' setting in the app and does it improve sound quality? (It does on the Buds Plus)



Crinacle has a very specific sound that he prefers in his headphones.  This highly influences both the tonal and technical scores.  A lot of people agree with said sound, others are neutral, and others don’t like said sound.


----------



## Canabuc

tiagopinto said:


> To put you in perspective, I must tell you that the most important feature for me is the sound. A flat frequency response (harder to get in wireless earbuds) and trying to get the sound that the artist intended for me to listen. This is the main issue.
> Then... I use an iPhone so different codecs are, for me, useless. AAC works just fine on my Xs. Then, I never equalize and rarely use the app, unless for firmware updates or sometimes checking the battery. Then, I’m very meticulous and careful with my tech and my gadgets so dealing with the products intricacies and details is almost a hobby.
> 
> Having said that, I too am looking for the “perfect” wireless earbuds for a reasonable budget. What’s reasonable? Well, being thoroughly imbedded in the Apple environment, I found the AirPods to be really crappy and the Pro’s too expensive. I still own and use Jaybird Bluebuds X (from back in the day) but the sound quality is under par.
> ...


Try the 85t. Comfort is great and ANC is too. Has Qi charging.
Stock running is a bit warm and bass heavy but that can be adjusted in the app. Once adjusted the EQ settings stay permanent in the buds so you only have to adjust one to your taste.
The controls can do everything from the buds too.. from ANC to track to volume or voice assistant. You don't have to pick one and sacrifice the others.
Also while some YouTube reviewers don't like button controls these are great. No accidental touches triggering things while adjusting the buds in your ears. Works well with great in our using gloves too.
Cost wise I got mine when on sale for 216 CDN$ which is about 170$usd. 

Only higher end buds I haven't tried were Sennheiser due to lack of wireless charging, and from what I hear lowish volume and not most comfortable. At a high price.

The Bose are intriguing though the case is quite large as are the buds but otherwise reports are they sound very good are comfortable and best in class EQ. Also pricy.


----------



## Canabuc

tinyman392 said:


> Crinacle has a very specific sound that he prefers in his headphones.  This highly influences both the tonal and technical scores.  A lot of people agree with said sound, others are neutral, and others don’t like said sound.


I like his sound but with a tad more warmth. But the clarity and crispiness in his top choices are nice.
At end of day I almost bought the AKG n400 because of his review of its sound and the poor comfort of the bud pro. Until I read about static crackling convection issues with them and poor battery life with only one charge in the case and bad video latency which are all things he didn't test.
So yes sounds quality of the most important but if you can't wear the earbuds for long due to pain or dropouts etc then that sound quality is for nothing. This is why I am staying away from the Gemini as well. And the Melomania touch also as well as fact they lack ANC which I feel should be a given in any newly released earbud.


----------



## Mlaihk

chifihead said:


> Wait, people are trashing the buds pros? But crinacle gave them a very high score, the best globally-available TWS in fact!
> 
> Does the case accommodate the Azla shorts?
> 
> Also, is there a 'Clear' setting in the app and does it improve sound quality? (It does on the Buds Plus)


The new style case DOES ALLOW regular tips!   I did not even have to try Clear on EQ.  The normal eq is tuned excellent for me already.


----------



## BigZ12 (Feb 4, 2021)

I've had a lot of trouble with my Airpods Pro.
Rattling, loss of bass, bad ANC, yellow ear fit test (which were green when I got them), distortion when speaking on the phone etc.
It got so bad, that I got a full refund after 3 replacements.

After reading that Apple admitted problems with APPs manufactured before Oct. 2020, I was interested trying a new pair.
From this thread; Rattlegate, I learned about both the new recessed grill on one sensor and what serial numbers to look for when trying to get a "revised" version (post Oct. 20). (Before Oct. 20, the last 4 digits are LKKT, and after it's 0C6L)

I've had a new pair for about a month now, with 0C6L and the recessed grill, and have to say I really notice the difference.
Still green ear fit test, ANC is great, sound/bass is better and no rattling.

Let's hope they stay like this, 'cause I really like them.
Edit: And they are even better with the Comply Foam 2.0!


----------



## Thesonofkrypton

AirPods Pro are fairly decent. Which is why I keep a pair just for the ease of connecting to everything at home and around the house and for running as well.

Finding a decent sounding pair though has been the real challenge!


----------



## jant71

Kinda lame no aptX/aptXLL and a portable gaming TWS needs ambient unless you never interact with anyone and if you are gaming on your phone your hands are occupied to take one out to hear announcements or people. $79 so not really budget enough to skip ambient either in 2021.


----------



## mbk

Thesonofkrypton said:


> AirPods Pro are fairly decent. Which is why I keep a pair just for the ease of connecting to everything at home and around the house and for running as well.
> 
> Finding a decent sounding pair though has been the real challenge!


 
I would say AirPods Pro are decent at best. Their real advantage is the integration with Apple hardware, which is seamless. But based on sound quality there are way better options out there.


----------



## voicemaster

Thesonofkrypton said:


> AirPods Pro are fairly decent. Which is why I keep a pair just for the ease of connecting to everything at home and around the house and for running as well.
> 
> Finding a decent sounding pair though has been the real challenge!


Samsung galaxy buds line up has been pretty good in sound department lately. The buds plus sounds decent, the live sounds good when you learn how to put them in your ears, the latest pro is the best sounding galaxy buds so far.


----------



## Thesonofkrypton

mbk said:


> I would say AirPods Pro are decent at best. Their real advantage is the integration with Apple hardware, which is seamless. But based on sound quality there are way better options out there.



Yes that’s what I was getting at. If you’re in the Apple eco system they’re good, they just connect and work. Wish they would licence that out, would make life easier if every set was like that!


----------



## tinyman392 (Feb 4, 2021)

Thesonofkrypton said:


> AirPods Pro are fairly decent. Which is why I keep a pair just for the ease of connecting to everything at home and around the house and for running as well.
> 
> Finding a decent sounding pair though has been the real challenge!



I remember when I first got the APP I was kind of flabbergasted that they sounded very close to DF neutral.  RTings measurements (if you compensate out their raw) actually kind of confirmed this bing +/- 2-3 dB from DF neutral.  It's not a favorite sound signature of many, but it was my preferred one. 



jant71 said:


> Kinda lame no aptX/aptXLL and a portable gaming TWS needs ambient unless you never interact with anyone and if you are gaming on your phone your hands are occupied to take one out to hear announcements or people. $79 so not really budget enough to skip ambient either in 2021.



Kind of odd to just do AAC and SBC.  For 80 bucks though, can't really complain too much.  1/20s latency doesn't seem to bad, though I'm not sure what the lows are nowadays. That said, the sound signature doesn't look to be my cup of tea.  The graph below is theirs, I'm assuming uncompensated due to the 10 dB peak around the 3k range.


----------



## Brave Heart

I got the Samsung Buds Pro a couple of days ago and they are really quite fantastic. I've heard a lot of complaints about the fit (and lack of the fins that the previous buds had) but they fit me fine with the largest tips and are comfortable for me.
The Buds Plus gave me ear pain but I haven't had this problem with the Pro.


----------



## Bobbetybob

Thesonofkrypton said:


> Yes that’s what I was getting at. If you’re in the Apple eco system they’re good, they just connect and work. Wish they would licence that out, would make life easier if every set was like that!


Android actually has this functionality and has had it for a while it's just that nobody uses it, probably because it's more effort than it's worth to get it implemented. 

https://blog.google/products/android/fast-pair-easier-bluetooth/


----------



## jasonb (Feb 4, 2021)

mbk said:


> I would say AirPods Pro are decent at best. Their real advantage is the integration with Apple hardware, which is seamless. But based on sound quality there are way better options out there.



I like the AirPods Pro with the Headphone Accommodations set to “balanced tone” with Comply foam tips quite a bit. I like the sound more than every other TWS I’ve tried so far including the first 3 Samsung Galaxy Buds, the WF1000XM3, and the Lypertek Tevi. The Lypertek Tevi would be my second favorite in terms of just sound quality, but their fit and comfort never quite worked for me, and they lacked any ambient sound mode.

Also, when it comes to watching a movie on an iPad, the spatial audio with the AirPods Pro is really fun.


----------



## tiagopinto

Canabuc said:


> Try the 85t. Comfort is great and ANC is too. Has Qi charging.
> Stock running is a bit warm and bass heavy but that can be adjusted in the app. Once adjusted the EQ settings stay permanent in the buds so you only have to adjust one to your taste.
> The controls can do everything from the buds too.. from ANC to track to volume or voice assistant. You don't have to pick one and sacrifice the others.
> Also while some YouTube reviewers don't like button controls these are great. No accidental touches triggering things while adjusting the buds in your ears. Works well with great in our using gloves too.
> ...



I agree, I could try them but the MT are 140€ while the 85t are 200€. And you get ANC. The glitches were fixed by the update on the MT so, for now, I guess I’m keeping these. I really like the sound. Thanks.


----------



## Canabuc

tiagopinto said:


> I agree, I could try them but the MT are 140€ while the 85t are 200€. And you get ANC. The glitches were fixed by the update on the MT so, for now, I guess I’m keeping these. I really like the sound. Thanks.


I guess at those prices but I got the 85t for less than the MT


----------



## BigZ12

jasonb said:


> I like the AirPods Pro with the Headphone Accommodations set to “balanced tone” with Comply foam tips quite a bit.


I use the exact same config


----------



## tinyman392 (Feb 4, 2021)

I took the dive and made a purchase of the HiFiMan TWS800.  I was very reluctant after the abrasive midrange the TWS600 had.  Glad to say the abrasive midrange is more or less gone which is good news.  No weird, ear-ringing resonance in the midrange.  Lots of tip rolling to get proper bass response.  These are still pretty bright IEMs, so if you’re sensitive to highs, these might be something to refrain from.  The bass is pretty full bodied with very good extension while remaining pretty linear which is nice.  The midrange is very energetic and lacks quite a bit of warmth to them.  Lots of detailing and clarity, gobs of it.  I’d probably argue these are analytical in nature with a small bass boost...  They are very unforgiving, even next to something like an Etymotic.  I’d argue that the sound signature is very far from what would be considered consumer.

Edit: I’m going to let these burn in and see how I feel about them with time.


----------



## jasonb

BigZ12 said:


> I use the exact same config


It sounds pretty good doesn’t it? If anything it’s a hair on the brighter side, but it sounds pretty clean and clear.


----------



## Dregur

tiagopinto said:


> I also had a few issues with the upgrade, eventually having to factory reset them and start over (the left one was stubborn to be recognized and kept turning itself off). After reset, they are now behaving fine. They assumed the latest firmware version (I guess 1.2.3).
> 
> I’ll be testing their behavior in the next few days. I’d hate to part with them because I really like the sound and the fit. For the price I believe it’d be hard to get better. But I’m open to change if the sound quality is similar, mainly, but also if the battery and fit (with fins) are similar.
> 
> ...



Honestly, the Galaxy Buds Pro made me realize how bad the technological deficiencies of the Melomania Touches were bothering me even when they were working for me. 

The fact it took upwards of 10 seconds to connect to the buds when I took them out of the case.
That they were connected separately in the bluetooth menu which honestly caused the issues I was having with the buds desynching from one another somehow.
I had to double check when putting the buds back in the case to ensure it was sitting in there properly for both charging and that I could take out the buds to reconnect
The bluetooth connection and how inconsistent it was. 
The microphones being pretty bad comparable to the other TWS I have. 

Fit is an individual thing, but for me the Galaxy Buds Pro sound just as great as the Melomania Touch, work 99.9% of the time right out of the gates, and are just as comfortable for me.


----------



## Dregur

chifihead said:


> Wait, people are trashing the buds pros? But crinacle gave them a very high score, the best globally-available TWS in fact!
> 
> Does the case accommodate the Azla shorts?
> 
> Also, is there a 'Clear' setting in the app and does it improve sound quality? (It does on the Buds Plus)



I just tried Azla XElastec tips which technically fit, but I'm not sure I like how they sound on the Galaxy Buds Pro. I definitely get a better seal, but the bass is actually a bit too boomy now. The buds will still fit in the case and properly charge.


----------



## FYLegend

What keeps me hanging from the Buds Pro is whether or not they still have a low SBC bitpool, as I would like to listen to them on my PC as well as my phone, unlike many users who seem to use TWS on their phones and don't notice this issue.

The other issue is reliability and after-service. In my experience, a bigger brand like Samsung is more likely to play coy with your issues. Techs and fanboys on their forum just blurt out "do a factory reset" or "get a replacement". I've only used my Buds+ for about 5 months and the right bud now drains by itself after a week or so without use. The charge LED also reports a false green light until I re-seat the earbud to which it starts charging VERY slowly. I guess a rule of thumb is to charge your devices after periods of no use, but my Jabra 65t and some other TWS still hold that charge after months.

Smaller brands try to make it up to you even if they do it through shady ways like full-refunds or gift card bribes.



tinyman392 said:


> Crinacle has a very specific sound that he prefers in his headphones.  This highly influences both the tonal and technical scores.  A lot of people agree with said sound, others are neutral, and others don’t like said sound.


I can totally see Oluv and Totally Dubbed HD trash the Buds Pro.


----------



## DigDub

Canabuc said:


> If ANC is important the 85t with latest firmware is wow!
> Snow removal trucks outside my bedroom very noisy. ANC on with nothing playing and nothing!
> Buds pro reduced the noise but could still hear it.
> 
> ...


The Fiil t1 pro ranks at the top of my tws pile now for sound quality, with the buds pro close behind. T1 pro has clear and natural highs and mids. The bass hits deep and is very fluid.


----------



## DRuM

Anyone here ever used their IPX7/8 buds in the shower with no issues? I told a friend I was going to use my IPX8 buds in the shower and he said I know you can but I wouldn't. So I didn't.


----------



## assassin10000

DRuM said:


> Anyone here ever used their IPX7/8 buds in the shower with no issues? I told a friend I was going to use my IPX8 buds in the shower and he said I know you can but I wouldn't. So I didn't.



Yes. IPX7 Mavin Air-XR. 

Fell out of my ears into the drain a couple times. Earwax plus warm water under pressure & silicone tips = extra slippery. No issues, after being submerged a few times, just blew the water off the driver opening and left the case open after.


----------



## chinmie

DigDub said:


> The Fiil t1 pro ranks at the top of my tws pile now for sound quality, with the buds pro close behind. T1 pro has clear and natural highs and mids. The bass hits deep and is very fluid.



how's the other features (anc, ambient, fit, reliability, etc) of the T1 pro compare to the Buds Pro's in your opinion?


----------



## chinmie

I bought the Mobvoi Ticpods ANC, and after trying it out for a couple of days, i like it. it has a warm and "old tape" analog sound, good rounded bass and slight roll off on the treble, great for long listening. fit is nice too, it's kind of a hybrid of open earbuds and IEM in fitting, so it does block noise slightly, but doesn't make my ears "sweaty" even after very long usage. with usual IEMs, i have to take them off every two hours at max to let my ears breathe. 
i also like the ambient and ANC..it's not great, but works adequately. i tested it for running with ambient mode, and no runner's thud and no wind noise. i haven't test it for bike riding though. 

the cons about it is the controls, which is reliable, but really simplified (no volume and previous track control), and tad bigger than my other earbuds TWS. here's a comparison to the Onyx Ace and Vivo Neo




both the signal and range of the Ticpods and Vivo is great, while the Onyx Ace have annoying random dropouts from time to time...shame though.. because i quite like the sound, especially with foams on it. 

anyone else here using the Onyx Ace have the same problems?

i also use the Vivo with foams, but have make slight adjustments on the case with some small grinder so it would fit inside the case. with the Onyx Ace, it can fit inside the case with foam just fine without adjustment.


----------



## DigDub

chinmie said:


> how's the other features (anc, ambient, fit, reliability, etc) of the T1 pro compare to the Buds Pro's in your opinion?


The ANC cuts off rumbling noise, so they are effective for engine noise. The effect is not as strong as the buds pro though. Ambient is also very soft, can't hear much ambient sound when music is playing. Fit wise, it is pretty comfortable due to its small size. There was one occasion where the right bud died, I read that it is quite common for Fiil. Just leave the buds in the charging case for 1 to 2 days and it came alive again. Connection is rock solid and latency is very low.


----------



## DRuM

assassin10000 said:


> Yes. IPX7 Mavin Air-XR.
> 
> Fell out of my ears into the drain a couple times. Earwax plus warm water under pressure & silicone tips = extra slippery. No issues, after being submerged a few times, just blew the water off the driver opening and left the case open after.



Thanks. Lol yeah, I've got a removable metal drain plug which allows water to drain but not enough space between it and the drain to lose buds. I'd better remember to put it in the drain before I use them!


----------



## bladefd (Feb 4, 2021)

tiagopinto said:


> Exactly!



I am most likely keeping the Touch. I still have like another month to decide, but I'm leaning towards keeping. Sound is great and so are comfort/fit/battery life.

I tried Sennheiser cx400bt, Technics AZ70 and Sony wf1000-xm3. Sony had everything I wanted but was massive - not secure enough to use while lying down in bed at night reading a book with music in background. Touch had similar sound signature to Sony but in smaller package. Only thing missing is ANC, but I don't really need ANC for my use. I actually think Touch have slightly better overall sound quality than the Sony.

I'm just bit displeased by how many issues I had out of the box before the firmware update. I think it was inexcusable and unprofessional to rush something out without proper quality control & testing before release. I am glad they fixed the connection issue. The case is still not great - it doesn't always automatically start charging, but I think I'm used to it now. It's all about how you place the earbuds. It's not bad after getting used to it.


----------



## mux7

I don't want to put a damper, but has anyone been surprised at the sound quality of wired iems/headphones after using wireless for so long? I've been using Airpods Pros for a very long time, which I thought sounded decent. I then recently got the Galaxy Buds Pro, and those sounded even better, albeit less comfortable. I decided to chuck 20$ and get the Sony MH750's and was blown away at the sound quality compared to my wireless options at a cost of 1/10 of the Buds Pro.


----------



## samandhi

mux7 said:


> I don't want to put a damper, but has anyone been surprised at the sound quality of wired iems/headphones after using wireless for so long? I've been using Airpods Pros for a very long time, which I thought sounded decent. I then recently got the Galaxy Buds Pro, and those sounded even better, albeit less comfortable. I decided to chuck 20$ and get the Sony MH750's and was blown away at the sound quality compared to my wireless options at a cost of 1/10 of the Buds Pro.


This exactly. I am coming from wired IEMs and full sized headphones. I have read reviews and read a ton of this thread, and have bought 2 pairs blindly (no place to audition anyhow), and found both to sound like crap to my ears. Almost everything I have read about the melomania touch (for instance) says they sound really good (just have other issues). I am so surprised at how off they actually sound, but more suprised at how much people have gotten used to listening to bad sound, and don't really know it. 

That might also be part of the problem. I don't think I will ever find some TWS that compare to what I have unwittingly gotten used to with IEMs and headphones. If I could find those unicorns, I would then be end game with TWS AND IEMs... All I would need to complete would be the full sized headphones. I think I am close with either my HE400S or Deva (if I could find a combination of the 2 I would have it). 

I hope I have not offended anyone, I was just offering my personal opinion.


----------



## Canabuc

DigDub said:


> The Fiil t1 pro ranks at the top of my tws pile now for sound quality, with the buds pro close behind. T1 pro has clear and natural highs and mids. The bass hits deep and is very fluid.


Well if the ANC is half decent then maybe everything else does back and I wait for the next generation which will all have multi pairing better ANC and sound.


----------



## Newguyuk

DigDub said:


> The Fiil t1 pro ranks at the top of my tws pile now for sound quality, with the buds pro close behind. T1 pro has clear and natural highs and mids. The bass hits deep and is very fluid.


----------



## Forceberg

monsieurfromag3 said:


> Bought! For my wife, who loved her M500, and also because there’s AAC and no aptX so it’s perfect for her iOS systems. I’ll be sure to test it too and report back.



Did you receive a shipment confirmation yet? Ordered as well but haven’t heard anything since the order confirmation.


----------



## Thesonofkrypton

Forceberg said:


> Did you receive a shipment confirmation yet? Ordered as well but haven’t heard anything since the order confirmation.



Looking forward to hearing your thoughts on them gentlemen.  The old me would have bought them already, but not getting burnt again after CA Melomania Touch lol


----------



## jant71

mux7 said:


> I don't want to put a damper, but has anyone been surprised at the sound quality of wired iems/headphones after using wireless for so long? I've been using Airpods Pros for a very long time, which I thought sounded decent. I then recently got the Galaxy Buds Pro, and those sounded even better, albeit less comfortable. I decided to chuck 20$ and get the Sony MH750's and was blown away at the sound quality compared to my wireless options at a cost of 1/10 of the Buds Pro.





samandhi said:


> This exactly. I am coming from wired IEMs and full sized headphones. I have read reviews and read a ton of this thread, and have bought 2 pairs blindly (no place to audition anyhow), and found both to sound like crap to my ears. Almost everything I have read about the melomania touch (for instance) says they sound really good (just have other issues). I am so surprised at how off they actually sound, but more suprised at how much people have gotten used to listening to bad sound, and don't really know it.
> 
> That might also be part of the problem. I don't think I will ever find some TWS that compare to what I have unwittingly gotten used to with IEMs and headphones. If I could find those unicorns, I would then be end game with TWS AND IEMs... All I would need to complete would be the full sized headphones. I think I am close with either my HE400S or Deva (if I could find a combination of the 2 I would have it).
> 
> I hope I have not offended anyone, I was just offering my personal opinion.



I know my Elecom GB41 are my best sounding BT item and they cost $49. They have dual chambers and big drivers with different layers of diaphragms in a nice sandwich. Dual venting as well. Hard to get really good sound in TWS with all the stuff in there so with the pods out on the cable you can do what you want with speakers and housing and venting and pressure relief to get the best sound.

The Victor are a close second and surprise there claim to SQ is puting the driver more separate with space behind it to "breath".





TWS is difficult cause you are taking up space that can be used to improve sound. TWS is getting better though. Perhaps the stem kind will have a better shot since they can put more of the other stuff out of the way. Still, headphones and cabled wireless models still have the edge. TWS will sacrifice for the convenience of ditching that one wire and pod/s in between or the size and headband off wireless headphones.




Forceberg said:


> Did you receive a shipment confirmation yet? Ordered as well but haven’t heard anything since the order confirmation.



I know here in the US it is pre-order so they might be able to purchase but not quite ready to ship. 

Any concerned about the output power? Specs say max 5mw and the earpieces get 9 hours of battery life with ANC and they have 50mah batteries. Unless they are some silly easy to drive speakers I fear low volume headroom on the KEF. 16 Ohm and 104sens. on the drivers so pretty easy to drive but still a bit worried since I use MSEB to tune and it cuts to avoid clipping and distortion.


----------



## chifihead

voicemaster said:


> Some people can't get a good fit which is pretty normal for iem. Then there are people who is super sensitif for treble and find the pro too fatiguing. Another one is some people don't use samsung phone so no "superior" codec.
> From the gbuds live and pro, the normal setting actually sounds the best from all other settings.
> Bass boost = muddy
> Soft = less muddy
> ...


Cheers! I personally like the clear one the most, the vocals sound most realistic there. The normal setting is too thick for me.. 



tinyman392 said:


> Crinacle has a very specific sound that he prefers in his headphones.  This highly influences both the tonal and technical scores.  A lot of people agree with said sound, others are neutral, and others don’t like said sound.


That makes sense.. Cheers



Mlaihk said:


> The new style case DOES ALLOW regular tips!   I did not even have to try Clear on EQ.  The normal eq is tuned excellent for me already.


Ah, that's great news! One of the downsides of TWS is that they seldom allow for tip rolling 



Dregur said:


> I just tried Azla XElastec tips which technically fit, but I'm not sure I like how they sound on the Galaxy Buds Pro. I definitely get a better seal, but the bass is actually a bit too boomy now. The buds will still fit in the case and properly charge.


Yeah, the xelastec is a hit or miss with me too..


----------



## faithguy19

Well, I can say I am very happy with my Status Audio Between Pros.  It doesn't have the bells and whistles of some of my other tws but as for sound, it is top-notch IMO.  Very pleased with it.  At $79 it is outperforming my $200-300 sets.


----------



## Canabuc

faithguy19 said:


> Well, I can say I am very happy with my Status Audio Between Pros.  It doesn't have the bells and whistles of some of my other tws but as for sound, it is top-notch IMO.  Very pleased with it.  At $79 it is outperforming my $200-300 sets.


Price is good but why in 2021 skimp on better features. Why not add them and charge 30 more?


----------



## faithguy19 (Feb 5, 2021)

Canabuc said:


> Price is good but why in 2021 skimp on better features. Why not add them and charge 30 more?



They said they wanted to focus on sound and battery life. Originally had transparency mode but removed it for some reason.  They felt since the headphones can do mono mode it was unnecessary.  While I would enjoy those other features like anc, transparency, multipoint, etc. I am kinda glad they focused on sound.  I enjoy the sound of these more than the 75t, APP, MTW 2, 1000xm3, etc. Just ticks my boxes sound wise.  When I need ANC or transparency mode I just switch to one of those other devices.


----------



## monsieurfromag3

Forceberg said:


> Did you receive a shipment confirmation yet? Ordered as well but haven’t heard anything since the order confirmation.


No shipping yet, actually the order still reads as Unprocessed on KEF’s website. They must be swamped as they haven’t replied to an e-mail I sent either.


----------



## Canabuc

faithguy19 said:


> They said they wanted to focus on sound and battery life. Originally had transparency mode but removed it for some reason.  They felt since the headphones can do mono mode it was unnecessary.  While I would enjoy those other features like anc, transparency, multipoint, etc. I am kinda glad they focused on sound.  I enjoy the sound of these more than the 75t, APP, MTW 2, 1000xm3, etc. Just ticks my boxes sound wise.  When I need ANC or transparency mode I just switch to one of those other devices.


Might as well just get the sound core Liberty 2 pro then. They got every thing these do. I am glad you like but in 2021 to not offer ambient mode or ANC just doesn't make sense.


----------



## faithguy19

Canabuc said:


> Might as well just get the sound core Liberty 2 pro then. They got every thing these do. I am glad you like but in 2021 to not offer ambient mode or ANC just doesn't make sense.


I mean I guess it depends on what you are looking for.  These are cheaper than the Liberty 2 Pro and sound better than them.


----------



## Canabuc

Time to buy the 85t! Jabra has in sale this week for 200$ Canadian about 155$ US!


----------



## Canabuc

faithguy19 said:


> I mean I guess it depends on what you are looking for.  These are cheaper than the Liberty 2 Pro and sound better than them.


Not in Canada and you got that price as an early bird. Now is 99$ as Canadian shipping and you are at 115$. The L2P are at about 100$ right now on Amazon. They can be tuned amazing. Maybe out of the box they sound worse. My only rain they aren't my every day buds are for lack of ambient and ANC. Same reason at least for me I would go for status audio.
If they ever make an upgraded one with those 2 features would be all over it though. Enjoy the sound am sure it is great. I am a fan of multi driver tws. Seems to allow much better separation and detail in low and high notes.


----------



## Shadowclash10

Just got an email from Audeze about the Euclid. At first I was really hyped upon seeing that they were closed-back TWS, but then I saw the price tag ($1299) LOL. Considering the price tag, and the fact that they can be used wired (detachable MMCX cable), they seem more like high-end IEMs, not really competitors in the TWS space. But I guess it's nice to see more products from Audeze, even though I was really hoping for sub $400 TWSs from them


----------



## tinyman392

Shadowclash10 said:


> Just got an email from Audeze about the Euclid. At first I was really hyped upon seeing that they were closed-back TWS, but then I saw the price tag ($1299) LOL. Considering the price tag, and the fact that they can be used wired (detachable MMCX cable), they seem more like high-end IEMs, not really competitors in the TWS space. But I guess it's nice to see more products from Audeze, even though I was really hoping for sub $400 TWSs from them



I was super excited until I saw that price tag...  Dang...


----------



## faithguy19

Shadowclash10 said:


> Just got an email from Audeze about the Euclid. At first I was really hyped upon seeing that they were closed-back TWS, but then I saw the price tag ($1299) LOL. Considering the price tag, and the fact that they can be used wired (detachable MMCX cable), they seem more like high-end IEMs, not really competitors in the TWS space. But I guess it's nice to see more products from Audeze, even though I was really hoping for sub $400 TWSs from them


I really wish they would make a tws product.


----------



## tinyman392

faithguy19 said:


> I really wish they would make a tws product.



You could turn those IEMs into a TWS using a Fiio (or other similar) adapter though.  It would be a very expensive TWS.


----------



## faithguy19

tinyman392 said:


> You could turn those IEMs into a TWS using a Fiio (or other similar) adapter though.  It would be a very expensive TWS.


True, but will they have the power to make it sound decent?


----------



## tinyman392 (Feb 5, 2021)

faithguy19 said:


> True, but will they have the power to make it sound decent?



Likely yes, it's a 105 dB / 1 mW sensitivity and 12 ohm impedance.  So it should be very easy to drive.

Edit: numbers take from here since it was the first thing to pop up on Google 

Edit 2: numbers confirmed on Audeze's website.


----------



## samandhi

tinyman392 said:


> Likely yes, it's a 105 dB / 1 mW sensitivity and 12 ohm impedance.  So it should be very easy to drive.
> 
> Edit: numbers take from here since it was the first thing to pop up on Google
> 
> Edit 2: numbers confirmed on Audeze's website.


WOW! I am always looking for some really good planar IEMs. They are far and few between, and even then, there are only a couple of really good ones. I have the Tinhifi P1, and consider them to be VERY high end planar IEMs, even though the price tag would suggest budget. 

Some day soon, I would be that someone will come out with some high end TWS. Now that we have codecs like LDAC and LDHC we should start to see someone making them. I recently bought the Hifiman Deva and let me just say that in bluetooth mode, they sound very close to what they sound like wired (wired still wins out, but by far better than I would have imagined 5 years ago). 

Looking at the reviews of those, had they been that good in the sound quality department AND been TWS, I would come off the cash for those.


----------



## tinyman392

samandhi said:


> WOW! I am always looking for some really good planar IEMs. They are far and few between, and even then, there are only a couple of really good ones. I have the Tinhifi P1, and consider them to be VERY high end planar IEMs, even though the price tag would suggest budget.
> 
> Some day soon, I would be that someone will come out with some high end TWS. Now that we have codecs like LDAC and LDHC we should start to see someone making them. I recently bought the Hifiman Deva and let me just say that in bluetooth mode, they sound very close to what they sound like wired (wired still wins out, but by far better than I would have imagined 5 years ago).
> 
> Looking at the reviews of those, had they been that good in the sound quality department AND been TWS, I would come off the cash for those.



The last pair of Planar IEMs I got I was sort of disappointed with (the AAW Nightingale I think they were).  Though I have a pair of Gold Planars somewhere that I never really gave a good listen to.  I actually am currently using my iSine 10 with the Cipher BT cable which is a good mix.  Not TWS, but very good for what it is.


----------



## samandhi

tinyman392 said:


> The last pair of Planar IEMs I got I was sort of disappointed with (the AAW Nightingale I think they were).  Though I have a pair of Gold Planars somewhere that I never really gave a good listen to.  I actually am currently using my iSine 10 with the Cipher BT cable which is a good mix.  Not TWS, but very good for what it is.


Yeah, I got lucky. I have read some stories of planar IEMs, and have not seen TOO many good reviews of them (especially of those reviewers that tend to like similar sound as me). The P1 are the first planar IEMs I auditioned. 

How do you find the Cipher? Are there any drawbacks that you can see/hear? Are they MMCX connections? I May get something like this and just wait for the day when some really good TWS come out, though someone on here DID recommend the Technics AZ70 (which I may still check into) for really good sound quality. The reviews I have read seem to agree that they do indeed sound very good.


----------



## tinyman392

samandhi said:


> Yeah, I got lucky. I have read some stories of planar IEMs, and have not seen TOO many good reviews of them (especially of those reviewers that tend to like similar sound as me). The P1 are the first planar IEMs I auditioned.
> 
> How do you find the Cipher? Are there any drawbacks that you can see/hear? Are they MMCX connections? I May get something like this and just wait for the day when some really good TWS come out, though someone on here DID recommend the Technics AZ70 (which I may still check into) for really good sound quality. The reviews I have read seem to agree that they do indeed sound very good.



The Cipher cable for the iSine use 2-pin connectors with no memory wire (since they point downward).  The cable is great to be honest, no complaints.  The only  thing I do wish is that they had the EQ that was available on the Lightning Cipher cables.  

On an off note, after looking at Crinacle's graphs on the new Audeze's the measurements looks very close to how I'd picture the HiFiMan TWS800 looking if one were to measure them.  Crinacle's impressions of the Audeze actually line up a lot with my HiFiMan too.  It may be interesting to compare the two.


----------



## samandhi

tinyman392 said:


> The Cipher cable for the iSine use 2-pin connectors with no memory wire (since they point downward).  The cable is great to be honest, no complaints.  The only  thing I do wish is that they had the EQ that was available on the Lightning Cipher cables.
> 
> On an off note, after looking at Crinacle's graphs on the new Audeze's the measurements looks very close to how I'd picture the HiFiMan TWS800 looking if one were to measure them.  Crinacle's impressions of the Audeze actually line up a lot with my HiFiMan too.  It may be interesting to compare the two.


I assume, then that they don't make a MMCX, only 2 pin?! Maybe I'll "cable roll" with some of them then. Before you mentioned it, I really hadn't considered it because I pair my T800 and P1 with the iBasso DX160, and didn't want to lose the DAC in it with BT, but while at work, I have found BT earphones to be useful. 

That is indeed interesting to hear about the Audeze. I don't normally pay too much credence to Crin's impressions/reviews as his taste in sound usually tends to differ widely from mine. Do you have the TWS800? I had considered those, but found the $49 price tag on the TWS600 too good to be true. I figured I could just gift them out if I didn't like them. The TWS600 (BTW) with some EQ CAN be good sounding (short of excellent), if a bit fatiguing after a time.


----------



## tinyman392 (Feb 5, 2021)

samandhi said:


> I assume, then that they don't make a MMCX, only 2 pin?! Maybe I'll "cable roll" with some of them then. Before you mentioned it, I really hadn't considered it because I pair my T800 and P1 with the iBasso DX160, and didn't want to lose the DAC in it with BT, but while at work, I have found BT earphones to be useful.
> 
> That is indeed interesting to hear about the Audeze. I don't normally pay too much credence to Crin's impressions/reviews as his taste in sound usually tends to differ widely from mine. Do you have the TWS800? I had considered those, but found the $49 price tag on the TWS600 too good to be true. I figured I could just gift them out if I didn't like them. The TWS600 (BTW) with some EQ CAN be good sounding (short of excellent), if a bit fatiguing after a time.



Audeze says a BT cable will be out in March on their website. 



> Bluetooth and 4.4mm balanced cables expected availability in March



So I assume that a MMCX BT cable from Audeze will eventually make its way to us.  I would expect it to be about the same price as the Cipher BT cable (99 USD) as well, but I'm not Audeze, they may change that up.  As for using a BT cable on your own headphones, it depends on the BT cable you're using.  I've found Fiio to use very good components so I'd expect their BT cables and TWS adapters to be very good (so long as the IEM you're powering is easier to drive).  Making sure they fit is another thing though.  For MMCX, it's more or less universal, but recessed 2-pin plugs can be difficult to find good matches for (I've yet to find a BT cable that fits my Drop Plus IEMs for example).  But as long as it has a good DAC/amp, it should be good to go.  But everything from cable rolling to getting a good DAC/amp that plays well with a pair of headphones will make a difference.  But as you add all that in, it starts to become combinatoric.  1 headphone with 3 cables and 3 DACs and 2 amps has a total of 18 different combinations! 

His tastes in sound actually differs from mine as well, but his impressions generally are spot on.  If you read his review ignoring scores/grading, they're pretty accurate IMO.  Especially from the tonality side of stuff.  Despite not agreeing with a lot of the grades he gives, I've had a hard time finding something in his review that isn't true.  His measurements are measurements, they normally can be confirmed pretty easily by another party, or even mapping his tonality impressions to the measurements.  I don't always agree with his grades (actually rarely), but do typically agree with his impressions. 

I was hesitant on getting the TWS800 after hearing the TWS600, but did eventually give them a try.  Don't get the TWS600 BTW, the midrange is harsh as there is a bit of a resonance almost smack dab near the 1-2k range.  It's not only elevated 5-ish dB, but it resonates.  I received the TWS800 yesterday and am happy with the sound.  It's very analytical with a modest bump in the sub bass (like 5 dB or so to my ears).  The only real sonic complaint I have about it is that it completely lacks warmth.  That said, if you don't like treble or are sensitive to it, stay way from the TWS800.  A lot of tip rolling has to be done with the 800 as well since getting a good fit can be difficult (you get a multitude of tips though).  To add to all that, I have to make sure the fit isn't too good as my right side has a bit of driver flex.  Oh, and the case it comes with looks beautiful and is well constructed, but the thing is huge!  All this said, I received them yesterday, I'm still burning them in, so it'll take a little time for me to finalize my opinions on the sound.


----------



## FYLegend

voicemaster said:


> Connection is solid as expected and I paired the pro with my s21 ultra so I get the scalable codec which is better than SBC imho.


How do you find the Pro on SBC compared to AAC? I have a Samsung phone that supports scalable but I can only use SBC on Windows 10.


----------



## voicemaster

I paired the pro with my OnePlus7 with SBC codec. Very hard to tell the difference between scalable codec vs SBC.


----------



## tinyman392

samandhi said:


> I assume, then that they don't make a MMCX, only 2 pin?! Maybe I'll "cable roll" with some of them then. Before you mentioned it, I really hadn't considered it because I pair my T800 and P1 with the iBasso DX160, and didn't want to lose the DAC in it with BT, but while at work, I have found BT earphones to be useful.
> 
> That is indeed interesting to hear about the Audeze. I don't normally pay too much credence to Crin's impressions/reviews as his taste in sound usually tends to differ widely from mine. Do you have the TWS800? I had considered those, but found the $49 price tag on the TWS600 too good to be true. I figured I could just gift them out if I didn't like them. The TWS600 (BTW) with some EQ CAN be good sounding (short of excellent), if a bit fatiguing after a time.



Thanks for mentioning cable rolling actually.  I've gotten a lot of cheap BT cables (KZ for example) that are designed for IEMs that turned a lot of stuff very bright.  Well, they match very well with the Nightingale that has previously seen no use due to it being way too dark for my tastes.


----------



## samandhi

tinyman392 said:


> Audeze says a BT cable will be out in March on their website.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thanks for your thoughts on that. I will definately look into a BT cable, but it WILL need some juice to push my P1 properly. I kind of doubt there is a beast like that out there for less than a fortune. The P1 don't look like they take much on paper, but in reality they require about as much juice as something like an HD600 to push correctly. The good news is that my DX160 pushes about 1.2W out of balanced, so I have a back-up/less mobile solution. 

Yeah, the midrange is pretty harsh (especially those sensitive to such things), but EQ'ing them down helps, and brings the bass up a bit (even though I EQ that up a bit too). Please do let us know your thoughts after burning them in on those TWS800. I am curious to know about them. I am  not a fanboy of Hifiman, per se', but I just really like their overall sound signature on their phones.


----------



## samandhi

tinyman392 said:


> Thanks for mentioning cable rolling actually.  I've gotten a lot of cheap BT cables (KZ for example) that are designed for IEMs that turned a lot of stuff very bright.  Well, they match very well with the Nightingale that has previously seen no use due to it being way too dark for my tastes.


I can't speak to BT cables, but know what you mean because they tune the DAC on those for universal use, not to specific cans (or to specific cans, but not for anything else). But wires in general will also make a difference on IEMs.

A lot of people give no credence to the different compositions to the wires we use (especially on IEMs), making a difference in the way they sound. I didn't used to believe so, until I got the T800. A cable and tips make a pretty decent sized difference (not huge mind you, its more subtle, but changes the sound nonetheless). I have a crap ton of lower end SPC, OCC, pure silver, etc... laying around for the same reason... I found the Tripowin C8 work best with my P1, and a Dbro SPC cable works best with my T800. I have found it makes a much smaller difference on full sized headphones (but still a difference). Pure silver sounds good with almost nothing except something that is VERY warm to begin with (which I don't own a lot of). 

I like bright headphones. Not sibilant, but as much detail retrieval as can be had without being sibilant. Which is actually why I was surprised that the TWS600 actually bothered me more than I thought they would.. heh


----------



## tinyman392

samandhi said:


> Thanks for your thoughts on that. I will definately look into a BT cable, but it WILL need some juice to push my P1 properly. I kind of doubt there is a beast like that out there for less than a fortune. The P1 don't look like they take much on paper, but in reality they require about as much juice as something like an HD600 to push correctly. The good news is that my DX160 pushes about 1.2W out of balanced, so I have a back-up/less mobile solution.
> 
> Yeah, the midrange is pretty harsh (especially those sensitive to such things), but EQ'ing them down helps, and brings the bass up a bit (even though I EQ that up a bit too). Please do let us know your thoughts after burning them in on those TWS800. I am curious to know about them. I am  not a fanboy of Hifiman, per se', but I just really like their overall sound signature on their phones.



Good luck finding something to drive them that works well too  I'm sure it can be done.  I tend to listen quietly, so getting to proper volume typically isn't too difficult.  

TWS800 sounds more HiFiMan than the TWS600 did.  Reminds me more of their older IEMs when they were very treble happy (think RE0 type treble).  I'll update the thread later on for sure.  The TWS did force me to listen at a lower volume than I normally did due to the midrange oddities it had.  



samandhi said:


> I can't speak to BT cables, but know what you mean because they tune the DAC on those for universal use, not to specific cans (or to specific cans, but not for anything else). But wires in general will also make a difference on IEMs.
> 
> A lot of people give no credence to the different compositions to the wires we use (especially on IEMs), making a difference in the way they sound. I didn't used to believe so, until I got the T800. A cable and tips make a pretty decent sized difference (not huge mind you, its more subtle, but changes the sound nonetheless). I have a crap ton of lower end SPC, OCC, pure silver, etc... laying around for the same reason... I found the Tripowin C8 work best with my P1, and a Dbro SPC cable works best with my T800. I have found it makes a much smaller difference on full sized headphones (but still a difference). Pure silver sounds good with almost nothing except something that is VERY warm to begin with (which I don't own a lot of).
> 
> I like bright headphones. Not sibilant, but as much detail retrieval as can be had without being sibilant. Which is actually why I was surprised that the TWS600 actually bothered me more than I thought they would.. heh



I didn't find the TWS600 that bright (in the treble).  The bass was very linear and the treble laid back slightly (not too much).  Maybe my memory is waning on them


----------



## SoundChoice

Canabuc said:


> Try the 85t. Comfort is great and ANC is too. Has Qi charging.
> Stock running is a bit warm and bass heavy but that can be adjusted in the app. Once adjusted the EQ settings stay permanent in the buds so you only have to adjust one to your taste.
> The controls can do everything from the buds too.. from ANC to track to volume or voice assistant. You don't have to pick one and sacrifice the others.
> Also while some YouTube reviewers don't like button controls these are great. No accidental touches triggering things while adjusting the buds in your ears. Works well with great in our using gloves too.
> ...



Hi, I haven't posted in a while, but have been reading what everyone's been sharing, and trying (futilely) to keep up on the Discovery thread (and others), but really enjoying this one.

I bought the Jabra 85t and am trying to make them work. The sound is pretty good, and the ANC is probably among best in class (up there with Tronsmart Apollo Bold and XM3). The two major problems I have with them are fit and the volume control. With these oval tips, I thought the fit was one of those semi-open types that sort of hangs on your ear and is designed not to have a seal. But with the latest firmware, the "My Fit" part of it wouldn't be happy no matter how much I adjusted them or mashed them into my ear. Finally, I switched tips to the larger 14mm silicons (the common kind found on AliExpress in packs of 4 of varying sizes including double-flange) and voila - My Fit was happy. So they _are_ meant to get a seal - Jabra just doesn't provide tips that make that happen if you have largish ears, and you're going to rip a SpinFit trying to stretch it over that oval racetrack nozzle.

But even with the new firmware and maybe I'm blind,  but, how do you get volume controls for the Jabra 85T? In the customize Media controls, I have start/stop, next/previous track, ANC/HT/Off, but nothing about volume. In the year 2021, a $200 TWS earphone where I can put my phone away and be cordless but without volume control is, to me, useless.

Which gets us to the  AKG N400 which was all the rage for a while, and was written about again here in the past day. Good sound quality, nice fit, but 1) the case is the shortest battery drain of anything I've seen since KZ's pathetic TWS, and 2) the "swipe to adjust volume" is so extremely finicky and random, it's like not having volume control at all and this is one of the few TWS I sent back on Amazon.

Thanks to all, and for sharing your journey with the Jabras.


----------



## FYLegend

voicemaster said:


> I paired the pro with my OnePlus7 with SBC codec. Very hard to tell the difference between scalable codec vs SBC.


Have you tried AAC or Scalable with the Pro, maybe with orchestral tracks? If there isn't a huge difference then Samsung might have raised the bitpool, but I still have my doubts. 

Or you could extract the btsnoop.log (you might need to use ADB to retrieve the file) and use this tool to find out the SBC bitpool.


----------



## Canabuc

SoundChoice said:


> Hi, I haven't posted in a while, but have been reading what everyone's been sharing, and trying (futilely) to keep up on the Discovery thread (and others), but really enjoying this one.
> 
> I bought the Jabra 85t and am trying to make them work. The sound is pretty good, and the ANC is probably among best in class (up there with Tronsmart Apollo Bold and XM3). The two major problems I have with them are fit and the volume control. With these oval tips, I thought the fit was one of those semi-open types that sort of hangs on your ear and is designed not to have a seal. But with the latest firmware, the "My Fit" part of it wouldn't be happy no matter how much I adjusted them or mashed them into my ear. Finally, I switched tips to the larger 14mm silicons (the common kind found on AliExpress in packs of 4 of varying sizes including double-flange) and voila - My Fit was happy. So they _are_ meant to get a seal - Jabra just doesn't provide tips that make that happen if you have largish ears, and you're going to rip a SpinFit trying to stretch it over that oval racetrack nozzle.
> 
> ...


Holdings down the button on the left is volume down and right is volume up. There is no seeing to change that function. All other button press are modifiable.


----------



## FYLegend

Earfun Free Pro or Fiil T1 Pro users - Anyone notice that the controls except volume don't work with Windows 10 anymore? Just got a new system update recently and now I can't play/pause or skip forward with the touch controls.


----------



## bronco1015 (Feb 6, 2021)

I just recieved the Tribit Flybuds C1 for review. They do have a stem design but it isn't to bad imo.
qualcom QC3040 chip, reported 12 hours per charge with 3 charges in the case. Charge via typeC.
Stock tips are okay, wasn't expecting much. haven't tip rolled but i think they'll lend themselves to several tip options.
Controls are on the stem. press button once to play-pause, both sides.
Twice on left rewind, twice on right skip forward.
3 times on either summon assistent and press and hold on left to lower and right to raise volume.
True Wireless mirroring so signal is sent to both. i can put either in the case and shut it and audio doesn't stop.
Sound is much better than the last tribit product i heard tuning anyway. a decent bass, mids are hot here and there, i notice it with electric guitars, symbols are kind of splashy. Mids aren't as full as they could be but still pretty solid. Treble could be tamed a bit. Some subBass bleed in to mids at times, but for $70 not to bad really. I have only listened to them for 40 minutes or so.
Edit, forgot to mention, Amazon US currently has a 15% off coupon bringing them down to $59.49


----------



## chinmie

so, on the topic of planar driver, does this Nokia TWS really do have planar drivers inside? because if so, it's becoming interesting


----------



## Yasin Caliskan

This review honored Tevi too. Have more than 2k sales on amazon. Anybody heard it personally?

https://kulakligim.net/bluetooth/tws/lypertek-tevi-tws-review/


----------



## howdy

Yasin Caliskan said:


> This review honored Tevi too. Have more than 2k sales on amazon. Anybody heard it personally?
> 
> https://kulakligim.net/bluetooth/tws/lypertek-tevi-tws-review/


Lots of people on this thread own them including me. Absolutely the biggest bang for 90 bucks. I love the sound and it's one of my go to's.


----------



## Thesonofkrypton

chinmie said:


> so, on the topic of planar driver, does this Nokia TWS really do have planar drivers inside? because if so, it's becoming interesting



It's a dynamic driver though isn't it? The photography on the product page cracked me up, it's like some high school end of year photos lol


----------



## chinmie

Thesonofkrypton said:


> It's a dynamic driver though isn't it? The photography on the product page cracked me up, it's like some high school end of year photos lol



if only based on that description, i think it says 10mm dynamic driver handles the bass, while a different driver (composite diaphragm) handles the mids and treble. the other slide that i posted seems to mention that composite diaphragm as planar design


----------



## Thesonofkrypton

That's interesting.  And Nokia of all people.  When you click where to buy it only shoes two China stockists which made me think they might be produced for the Asian market, but I can see them listed on Amazon UK but not currently available.


----------



## clerkpalmer

Any updates on the promised Devialet update? After being stable for a couple of weeks they are back to their old habits of not connecting and battery drain. Losing my patience. Crutchfiled may be receiving a call from me soon ... shame.


----------



## jant71

I see this Nokia was intro'd at $50 and only see 10mm dynamic with composite diaphragm and the spec list dynamic driver only.  Think dual driver is not even true and neither is Planar. Bad wording or translation so it doesn't say 10mm with composite diaphragm. One driver and a diaphragm makes little sense. Of course a diaphragm is not a driver but a part of a driver. 

"Transducer principle Dynamic, closed

Transducer size 10mm"


----------



## samandhi

jant71 said:


> I see this Nokia was intro'd at $50 and only see 10mm dynamic with composite diaphragm and the spec list dynamic driver only.  Think dual driver is not even true and neither is Planar. Bad wording or translation so it doesn't say 10mm with composite diaphragm. One driver and a diaphragm makes little sense. Of course a diaphragm is not a driver but a part of a driver.
> 
> "Transducer principle Dynamic, closed
> 
> Transducer size 10mm"


Looking at other links and such, I found  this which doesn't mention planar at all.


----------



## jant71

samandhi said:


> Looking at other links and such, I found  this which doesn't mention planar at all.



They might be a good pair but don't think they are gonna be special or anything or be a darkhorse sound champ. Another 100-ish $$ APP competitor.


----------



## erockg (Feb 6, 2021)

clerkpalmer said:


> Any updates on the promised Devialet update? After being stable for a couple of weeks they are back to their old habits of not connecting and battery drain. Losing my patience. Crutchfiled may be receiving a call from me soon ... shame.


I had to reset them using the process Devialet sent me and then repairing them again yesterday.  They seem to be holding up.  In the meantime, I emailed support and they said this:

Hello,

Thank you for your answer.

Indeed, our engineers are currently working on the development of the next update that will solve the problems mentioned.

Of course, I remain at your disposal for any further information.

Have a nice day.
*Maxim | Customer service & support Devialet*

I have ten more days to return mine to Amazon, but I'm holding out home because at the start of all this I purchased the Devialet extended warranty.  Ugh.


----------



## cresny (Feb 6, 2021)

erockg said:


> I had to reset them using the process Devialet sent me and then repairing them again yesterday.  They seem to be holding up.  In the meantime, I emailed support and they said this:
> 
> Hello,
> 
> ...





erockg said:


> I had to reset them using the process Devialet sent me and then repairing them again yesterday.  They seem to be holding up.  In the meantime, I emailed support and they said this:
> 
> Hello,
> 
> ...



I also heard that there is no definite date for the update, but hopefully they are taking the time to properly test this one. In the meantime I've mitigated the battery drain by removing Gemini R from my Bluetooth device list, leaving just Gemini. It means I need to manually tap to connect, but it also reliably shuts down when I close the case. I'm also careful to see that I get a green light every time I put an earpiece in the case.


----------



## erockg

cresny said:


> I also heard that there is no definite date for the update, but hopefully they are taking the time to properly test this one. In the meantime I've mitigated the battery drain by removing Gemini R from my Bluetooth device list, leaving just Gemini. It means I need to manually tap to connect, but it also reliably shuts down when I close the case. I'm also careful to see that I get a green light every time I put an earpiece in the case.


I’ll try that.  Thanks!


----------



## VICosPhi

Mlaihk said:


> The new style case DOES ALLOW regular tips!   I did not even have to try Clear on EQ.  The normal eq is tuned excellent for me already.


Do the proprietary fins at each end of the elliptical shaped outer ring of the Buds Pro make third party ear tips easy to slip off or are they pretty secure?


----------



## darveniza

Currently  enjoying  Noble Audio Falcon Pro (2 BA + 1 DD)  and Grado GT200 (1 DD)

Falcon reminds me of the  Vega 2020 Bass slam with a good handling of Mids and Highs , those frequencies  feel a bit like Final Audio B3 or even the UM 3DT

GT200 Tuning is brighter but well balanced . The bass does not slam as the Noble Audio,  but really  like their Mids and Highs

Have not burned enough , will continue testing 

The Sennheiser TWS2 is extremely  neutral  when compared  against both of these

Ergonomics wise I like the GT200


----------



## clerkpalmer

darveniza said:


> Currently  enjoying  Noble Audio Falcon Pro (2 BA + 1 DD)  and Grado GT200 (1 DD)
> 
> Falcon reminds me of the  Vega 2020 Bass slam with a good handling of Mids and Highs , those frequencies  feel a bit like Final Audio B3 or even the UM 3DT
> 
> ...


Interesting about ergonomics. I’m not a fan of the long nozzle in the Noble but I bet they sound great.


----------



## tinyman392

clerkpalmer said:


> Interesting about ergonomics. I’m not a fan of the long nozzle in the Noble but I bet they sound great.



I actually wasn't a fan of the ergonomics either on the Falcon.  Kind of odd since I felt the Heir Audio 3.Ai and 4.Ai fit me perfectly (also designed by The Wizard).


----------



## mbk

darveniza said:


> Currently  enjoying  Noble Audio Falcon Pro (2 BA + 1 DD)  and Grado GT200 (1 DD)
> 
> Falcon reminds me of the  Vega 2020 Bass slam with a good handling of Mids and Highs , those frequencies  feel a bit like Final Audio B3 or even the UM 3DT
> 
> ...



Thanks for the comparison. I was considering both of these and ended up going with the Grado. I was worried that the more V-shaped tune of the Noble would be fatiguing. I ran into that with the Liberty 2 Pro, which is also a combination DD/BA driver. 

Do you find any harshness to the Falcon Pros? I can listen to the Grado for long periods without a problem and I’ve come to be really impressed with how smooth they sound.

Which ones do you like better?


----------



## Enn Jott

Found another Person on AV Forums talking about bad call quality on the CA MT. It seems it was an Issue with some early pieces that has been solved. Therefore I'm tempted to order them again while contemplating about Buds Pro and KEF Mu3.


----------



## zeinharis

darveniza said:


> Currently  enjoying  Noble Audio Falcon Pro (2 BA + 1 DD)  and Grado GT200 (1 DD)
> 
> Falcon reminds me of the  Vega 2020 Bass slam with a good handling of Mids and Highs , those frequencies  feel a bit like Final Audio B3 or even the UM 3DT
> 
> ...



does the Grado have similar soundsign with it’s headphones counter part?


----------



## jant71

darveniza said:


> Currently  enjoying  Noble Audio Falcon Pro (2 BA + 1 DD)  and Grado GT200 (1 DD)
> 
> Falcon reminds me of the  Vega 2020 Bass slam with a good handling of Mids and Highs , those frequencies  feel a bit like Final Audio B3 or even the UM 3DT
> 
> ...



Interesting except the part where the is Senn extremely neutral part in comparison. Never heard any Senn TWS but think most have said they might be even a bit too warm and needed tips for that and the new audiophile sound update was created to help with that. Not seeing that being the case except for less than optimal fit with the Senn. A bit warmer or having more bass sure but extremely neutral in comparison?


----------



## mbk

zeinharis said:


> does the Grado have similar soundsign with it’s headphones counter part?



In my opinion, no. The GT220 seems to have a stronger bass boost than their full size phones. The treble on full size Grados also seems brighter to me.

And obviously, there is a big difference in general between a full size open air headphone and an IEM, but I’m ignoring that for the purposes of the answer.


----------



## clerkpalmer

mbk said:


> In my opinion, no. The GT220 seems to have a stronger bass boost than their full size phones. The treble on full size Grados also seems brighter to me.
> 
> And obviously, there is a big difference in general between a full size open air headphone and an IEM, but I’m ignoring that for the purposes of the answer.


I also am intrigued by your statement that the MTW is the most neutral of the 3. I find the Sens colored, overly warm and with a bit to much bloom in the bass. These aren’t necessarily criticisms just observations. I’d love to get my hands on the Nobles and Grados for comparison but I currently lack a use case for a TWS without ANC.


----------



## mbk

clerkpalmer said:


> I also am intrigued by your statement that the MTW is the most neutral of the 3. I find the Sens colored, overly warm and with a bit to much bloom in the bass. These aren’t necessarily criticisms just observations. I’d love to get my hands on the Nobles and Grados for comparison but I currently lack a use case for a TWS without ANC.



That wasn’t my statement, sorry for the confusion. Darveniza is the poster who has both the Noble and the Grado. I have just the Grado, but I like full size Grado phones too so I figured I’d give you my take on it.


----------



## darveniza

clerkpalmer said:


> I also am intrigued by your statement that the MTW is the most neutral of the 3. I find the Sens colored, overly warm and with a bit to much bloom in the bass. These aren’t necessarily criticisms just observations. I’d love to get my hands on the Nobles and Grados for comparison but I currently lack a use case for a TWS without ANC.


When comparing them using no EQ,standard tips,same volume and songs. 
Noble has the strongest  bass and does well with female vocals ,etc

Grado GT200 is great on its own standing and is brighter when compared to the Noble

By then using the TW2 I find them neutral against the other 2. Not saying  on their right are neutral, they feel neutral. Still own them and use them

BTW these are from a music perspective,  they still don't do well enough for long calls and Huawei, Samsung and Apple still control that space

I would say TW2 is the best of all 3 for phone calls


----------



## bladefd

Sennheiser is famous for their neutral tuning. I do believe the TW2/cx400bt have very much neutral sound signatures, which I personally prefer (I also have the sennheiser HD600, which is very neutral as well).


----------



## Enn Jott

bladefd said:


> Sennheiser is famous for their neutral tuning. I do believe the TW2/cx400bt have very much neutral sound signatures, which I personally prefer (I also have the sennheiser HD600, which is very neutral as well).



That really depends on the use of the word "neutral". Most people seem to thinks Senns have a warmish "house sound". Certainly not neutral in a studio/recording/mixing/mastering sense. That's what keeps me from steering towards TW2 or the cheaper ones sadly.


----------



## SilverEars (Feb 7, 2021)

Enn Jott said:


> That really depends on the use of the word "neutral". Most people seem to thinks Senns have a warmish "house sound". Certainly not neutral in a studio/recording/mixing/mastering sense. That's what keeps me from steering towards TW2 or the cheaper ones sadly.


House sound?  They don't have any consistencies between full-sized to iems.  HD6 series have their type of response which is different from HD800, etc..  There is no house sound that is shared across headphones/iems.  Their iem tuning totally sucks, but I'm ok with HD6XX.  There is no house sound.


----------



## samandhi

SilverEars said:


> House sound?  They don't have any consistencies between full-sized to iems.  HD6 series have their type of response which is different from HD800, etc..  There is no house sound that is shared across headphones/iems.  Their iem tuning totally sucks, but I'm ok with HD6XX.  There is no house sound.


I totally agree, but I think that what was meant by house sound, is that generally (with the exeption of a few like HD700, HD800, etc...) that Sennheiser tends to always tune their headphones to the warmer side of neutral. Hence the old saying the Sennheiser "veil".

I agree that there is a wide difference in individual tuning for each, you just wouldn't generally see them tuned (overall sound signature) like Grado, or Hifiman, etc... Just my opinion.


----------



## SilverEars (Feb 7, 2021)

If we look at their headphone and iem response, we can see they are totally different.  Only consistency we see is HD6 series.  I don't understand, why can't they tune their iems like the popular HD6 series?  I find that Moondrop is much more like their HD6 series than their crappy toned iems.  Their is no generalizations to be made across full-sized and iems.  They are tuned differently, and I really don't get their iem tunings.  I've said this many times, MTW2 is V-shaped.

Full-sized

HD800


hd600

hd650


iems
ie800

MTW2


----------



## samandhi

SilverEars said:


> If we look at their headphone and iem response, we can see they are totally different.  Only consistency we see is HD6 series.  I don't understand, why can't they tune their iems like the popular HD6 series?  I find that Moondrop is much more like their HD6 series than their crappy toned iems.  Their is no generalizations to be made across full-sized and iems.  They are tuned differently, and I really don't get their iem tunings.  I've said this many times, MTW2 is V-shaped.
> 
> Full-sized
> 
> ...


I don't disagree with this, and have the same question. Maybe they are just catering to the masses, and let's face it, most people actually like the typical "V" shaped, boomy bass, veiled treble that is so typical of non-audiophile type of manufactures. I personally find this sound is really bad to my ears, but for years it has effected music quality in general, services rendered (low quality mp3 services), and artists recording of the music itself. I have read somewhere where some artists actually record their music poorly on purpose, or as they would put it "to sound the best on the typical headphones". I don't have a source for this, but I think I read it once when I was researching streaming services like Tidal.


----------



## SilverEars (Feb 7, 2021)

samandhi said:


> I don't disagree with this, and have the same question. Maybe they are just catering to the masses, and let's face it, most people actually like the typical "V" shaped, boomy bass, veiled treble that is so typical of non-audiophile type of manufactures. I personally find this sound is really bad to my ears, but for years it has effected music quality in general, services rendered (low quality mp3 services), and artists recording of the music itself. I have read somewhere where some artists actually record their music poorly on purpose, or as they would put it "to sound the best on the typical headphones". I don't have a source for this, but I think I read it once when I was researching streaming services like Tidal.


Crin calls MTW2, 'the mainstream' with the same sentiments.  Look at the response of their latest Momentum full sized.  They boosted the bass significantly.  Momentum is their mainstream line.

I never understood the tuning of HD800 or HD700.  HD580 to HD6 series I assume they went by diffuse field target.  Only if they boosted the subs a bit, the HD6 series would have been better.

So, we can't assume that they want to tune to a certain target.  Axel worked on the HD580 to the 6 series, HD700, 800, and 820, and he was all over the place in terms of tuning.  So, we can't say he's a master tuner or anything.

I wouldn't mind a new Sennheiser headphone with HD6 series tonality with better subs and technicalities of HD800.  If I ahd full control, that's the direction I would lead their audiophile flagship line.


----------



## salocin82

I wanted to ask you if it is a good idea to buy the Haylou GT1 Plus.

I currently own the QCY T5 and I like it. But I have read very good opinions about the GT1 Plus being  superior to the T5. But I don't know if I should go for them because I have also read that the sound is very low.

In Android, the sound in the GT1 Plus seemed very low or normal?


----------



## KPzypher

So, I got the Galaxy buds pro 'free' with the S21 Ultra pre-order.  While waiting for the package to arrive, I was more excited about the phone, whereas I had zero expectation regarding the buds pro.  I'm a hardcore wired headphone kinda guy and was never into the TWS scene.  About a year ago, while I was heavily into DAPs/IEMs, I eventually sold everything and moved on to full desktop setup. Back then, I was even less tempted to get into the TWS, as the title suggests, thought they were still too soon and at its infancy, thus far from ideal.  

Oh my, how surprised I was when I tried the buds pro for the first time.  Up until now, my only TWS experience was the Jabra active 65T that I purchased several years ago for strictly workout duty and an old Bose wireless. Those sounded 'meh' at best and I stopped using them after random frequent cutouts.  Fast forward to today, I'm genuinely surprised at how good these sound in comparison.  In fact, I was so pleased, I just grabbed two more similarly priced products (Klipsch T5II Mclaren edition & Grado GT220) to further test the water. 

Strictly speaking, the technicality simply cannot match wired high-end headphones.  However, IMO the sheer form-factor, features, and convenience more than makes up for it. Plus, they actually do sound quite good.  If the trend keeps up, I'm gonna have to start adding TWS to my collection.  I like the fact that even the higher end ones (e.g. E8) are much more palatable in terms of price, compared to full-size cans (at least for now).  

Time to sift thru the 1900+ pages of this thread to see what other gems are out there.


----------



## samandhi

SilverEars said:


> Crin calls MTW2, 'the mainstream' with the same sentiments.  Look at the response of their latest Momentum full sized.  They boosted the bass significantly.  Momentum is their mainstream line.
> 
> I never understood the tuning of HD800 or HD700.  HD580 to HD6 series I assume they went by diffuse field target.  Only if they boosted the subs a bit, the HD6 series would have been better.
> 
> ...


I have agreed with all that you're saying by discontinuing my wallet from opening to Sennheiser for a while now. My overall signature preference has come from Hifiman since then. I have also dipped my toes into the Chi-fi scene (and a good thing too, as the Tin Hifi P1 were exceptional, for me). 

I DO love my HD700, but only because I have EQ'ed the crap out of them for many years to find the right spot (pretty much the same with my OG Momentums, etc..), but I have to say MY favorite Senn out of the box is one of their cheapest (discontinued) headphones... The PX360... LOL


----------



## bronco1015

bladefd said:


> Sennheiser is famous for their neutral tuning. I do believe the TW2/cx400bt have very much neutral sound signatures, which I personally prefer (I also have the sennheiser HD600, which is very neutral as well).


 


SilverEars said:


> House sound?  They don't have any consistencies between full-sized to iems.  HD6 series have their type of response which is different from HD800, etc..  There is no house sound that is shared across headphones/iems.  Their iem tuning totally sucks, but I'm ok with HD6XX.  There is no house sound.


 If the MTW2 in default is considered neutral to any degree in comparison to another product, i don't want to hear that twe at all. I like the OG MTW, the MTW2 less and the Momentum 3, but only because they all respond well to eq.


----------



## SemiAudiophile (Feb 8, 2021)

I've been out of the headphone game for a while but recently got into TWS ear buds for their portability, convenience, and traveling.

My 3 favorite right now are the Lypertek Tevi, Sennheiser CX400BT, and Grado GT220.

They all have their strengths and flavors. Can't really say one is better than the other but more like what I'm in the mood for. However, the CX400BT are an absolute steal right now at $99. They're basically the Momentum TWS 2 without ANC. But the Tevis are also a really good deal at around $90 too.

I think the tech has come a long way and honestly I'm quite impressed with how Bluetooth TWS sound compared to a full headphone rig. They're comparable to a $500+  headphone and DAC/amp combo IMO.

If I really wanted to do some serious listening of course there's no comparison to a quality DAC and tube amp. But I could happily live with listening to TWS ear buds for the rest of my life without the whole rig setup.


----------



## deuter

What is currently the top true wireless headphone?
I do have the Sennheiser Momentum Gen 1 but reading that Cambridge Audio Melomania Touch is probably the top contender.


----------



## DRuM

Anyone know if the Mpow M30 Plus has the aptx low latency codec? I've got the basic M30 which only has SBC. They sync perfectly with my phone, absolutely no lag at all. But I bought an aptx low latency bluetooth transmitter for my tv and there's some lag with the M30. I'm thinking of buying the M30 Plus if it gives me less delay.  I emailed Mpow on Saturday but not heard back yet.


----------



## Bobbetybob (Feb 8, 2021)

DRuM said:


> Anyone know if the Mpow M30 Plus has the aptx low latency codec? I've got the basic M30 which only has SBC. They sync perfectly with my phone, absolutely no lag at all. But I bought an aptx low latency bluetooth transmitter for my tv and there's some lag with the M30. I'm thinking of buying the M30 Plus if it gives me less delay.  I emailed Mpow on Saturday but not heard back yet.


As far as I'm aware there's only a couple of TWS that have aptX-LL, I'm not even sure if the M30 Plus have normal aptX. There seems to be a review stating they have aptX-LL but I don't think that's true. Qualcomm's aptX website has a products page where you can search for certain codecs I'm not sure how up to date it is though or if it lists every product.

https://www.aptx.com/product-listing


----------



## DRuM

Bobbetybob said:


> As far as I'm aware there's only a couple of TWS that have aptX-LL, I'm not even sure if the M30 have normal aptX. There seems to be a review stating they have aptX-LL but I don't think that's true. Qualcomm's aptX website has a products page where you can search for certain codecs I'm not sure how up to date it is though or if it lists every product.
> 
> https://www.aptx.com/product-listing



Thanks. Yeah,  I'd read that same review stating aptx ll but since it's the only place mentioning it,  I too have my doubts.

Do you think aptx ll buds would make much of a difference to lag when using an aptx ll transmitter? Apparently there's extra delay just from the tv audio to the transmitter. 

Another consideration for me is buying a tv with built in bluetooth. Someone who has an LG bluetooth tv told me he also used to get lag with an external bluetooth transmitter, but not anymore with his tv. 
I'd love to know if anyone else has a bluetooth tv and if they found it to be lag free with TWS.


----------



## samandhi

deuter said:


> What is currently the top true wireless headphone?
> I do have the Sennheiser Momentum Gen 1 but reading that Cambridge Audio Melomania Touch is probably the top contender.


Unless you like HIGHLY boosted bass, recessed mids (but mids are also very thin), and rolled off treble (worse than the Sennheiser "veil" IMO), the MT is not the one. I kept reading that same thing too, and I'm not sure why some of the reviewers are talking the sound quality up so much, and calling them very neutral. They are far from neutral. It almost made me angry when I bought them based on reviewers saying they were neutral, and then they were not.


----------



## chifihead

salocin82 said:


> I wanted to ask you if it is a good idea to buy the Haylou GT1 Plus.
> 
> I currently own the QCY T5 and I like it. But I have read very good opinions about the GT1 Plus being  superior to the T5. But I don't know if I should go for them because I have also read that the sound is very low.
> 
> In Android, the sound in the GT1 Plus seemed very low or normal?


The GT1 Plus is one of the few rare models which create a vaccuum seal in my ears, very uncomfortable. The GT1 and GT2 don't do this. I tried the GT1 XR (which is just the GT1 Plus in a bigger capacity case), and got the same issue! 

That being said, when I do get good seal on my GT1 Plus: they sound tighter and more analytical than the GT2, which in turn sounds tighter and more analytical than my GT1 Pro. 

I love the GT2 because it has a press button instead of a touch button which I'm sick of. The frequency of mistouch is too high compared to the convenience of not having to press the button. 

That being said don't expect a lot of difference compared to your T5 (which I also have). They're both neutralish cheap earphones. Why not try something different like the Haylou T15? Male vocals sound warmer with them. Battery capacity is a beast as well.

Or go for the Edifier X3 which I personally haven't tried but it got an award from Scarbir.


----------



## samandhi

DRuM said:


> Thanks. Yeah,  I'd read that same review stating aptx ll but since it's the only place mentioning it,  I too have my doubts.
> 
> Do you think aptx ll buds would make much of a difference to lag when using an aptx ll transmitter? Apparently there's extra delay just from the tv audio to the transmitter.
> 
> ...


I use bluetooth headphones, and TWS with my TV (Samsung smart tv), and I find 0 lag ever... I DO know that SBC has recently been updated. Maybe try switching from AptX to SBC on the source you are trying to get lower lag, and see if that helps until some decent AptX-LL come out or LDHC (basically a lower latency versison of LDAC) becomes more popular outside of Hifiman bluetooth devices.


----------



## Enn Jott

samandhi said:


> Unless you like HIGHLY boosted bass, recessed mids (but mids are also very thin), and rolled off treble (worse than the Sennheiser "veil" IMO), the MT is not the one. I kept reading that same thing too, and I'm not sure why some of the reviewers are talking the sound quality up so much, and calling them very neutral. They are far from neutral. It almost made me angry when I bought them based on reviewers saying they were neutral, and then they were not.



About the MT - Indeed very boosted bass. Taming the bass in the apps eq-settings helps alot though, especially for other frequencies. Plus the settings seem to be saved, so the are still working when using them on other devices such as your laptop, which is good. "Neutral" is and remains a difficult term to describe audio-characteristics as many people have a different understanding of what it means to them.


----------



## Bhelpoori

DRuM said:


> Thanks. Yeah,  I'd read that same review stating aptx ll but since it's the only place mentioning it,  I too have my doubts.
> 
> Do you think aptx ll buds would make much of a difference to lag when using an aptx ll transmitter? Apparently there's extra delay just from the tv audio to the transmitter.
> 
> ...


Actually, for most video players the absolute lag between audio and video is handled by a Bluetooth protocol between the app/OS and the Bluetooth receiver that compensates for the difference. This is why buying a newer TV will help here as it may support the Bluetooth protocol that does it. If you add a USB Bluetooth transmitter there's a good chance it won't have this compensation so they try to overcome it with a lower fidelity but lower latency Bluetooth codec... sadly, aptX LL is almost legacy now as the latest aptX Adaptive has a higher minimum latency of 80ms which is above where humans can detect audio-video lag (aka "lipsync").


----------



## salocin82

chifihead said:


> The GT1 Plus is one of the few rare models which create a vaccuum seal in my ears, very uncomfortable. The GT1 and GT2 don't do this. I tried the GT1 XR (which is just the GT1 Plus in a bigger capacity case), and got the same issue!
> 
> That being said, when I do get good seal on my GT1 Plus: they sound tighter and more analytical than the GT2, which in turn sounds tighter and more analytical than my GT1 Pro.
> 
> ...



Thank you very much for the reply! This is very helpful to me!

Yes, I have read about the Haylou T15, but on the Scarbir site he has rated them 3 stars and for that reason I have given up on buying them.

You're right, I don't know if it's a good decision to change my current QCY T5 for the Haylou GT1 Plus, as they are quite similar.

Another option I have looked at is the Haylou T19, but I have read that it has some drawbacks with the proximity sensor. At times the sound cuts out, as it detects that you have removed them from your ear when in fact you are wearing them.

Unfortunately, in my country I cannot get anything from the Fiil brand, as there are several models that are recommended. 

Perhaps, what I should do is continue with my QCY T5 and wait a few more months for more and better budget headphones to appear on the market.


----------



## DRuM

samandhi said:


> *I use bluetooth headphones, and TWS with my TV (Samsung smart tv), and I find 0 lag ever.*.. I DO know that SBC has recently been updated. Maybe try switching from AptX to SBC on the source you are trying to get lower lag, and see if that helps until some decent AptX-LL come out or LDHC (basically a lower latency versison of LDAC) becomes more popular outside of Hifiman bluetooth devices.



That sounds very promising! Unfortunately there's no way to switch the codec on the source which is the transmitter. The only source I can switch codecs is on my phone when my TWS buds are synced directly to it and then I get perfect sync.  From what I've read about my transmitter, it would automatically switch to SBC if the buds don't support aptx. So I think the transmitter is probably running SBC, same as my phone, and yet it's not completely lip synced.  



Bhelpoori said:


> Actually, for most video players the absolute lag between audio and video is handled by a Bluetooth protocol between the app/OS and the Bluetooth receiver that compensates for the difference. T*his is why buying a newer TV will help here as it may support the Bluetooth protocol that does it.* If you add a USB Bluetooth transmitter there's a good chance it won't have this compensation so they try to overcome it with a lower fidelity but lower latency Bluetooth codec... sadly, aptX LL is almost legacy now as the latest aptX Adaptive has a higher minimum latency of 80ms which is above where humans can detect audio-video lag (aka "lipsync").



I think I'll buy the tv. I only need a 32" and I've seen an LG smart tv with bluetooth and wi-fi which isn't too expensive, only £220. It's a bummer that non essential shops are currently closed because of lockdown. There's a chain of shops called Richer Sounds in the UK where I could have just walked in with my buds and tested syncing to one of their bluetooth tvs.


----------



## Kuli

deuter said:


> What is currently the top true wireless headphone?
> I do have the Sennheiser Momentum Gen 1 but reading that Cambridge Audio Melomania Touch is probably the top contender.


IMO Technics EAH-AZ70W. It has two sound signatures. A very neutral sound signature with a wide soundstage without turning on ANC or pass through modes and a bass boosted, similar to Cambridge Melomania Touch, when either is on.  Detail retrieval and imaging are way better than Sennheiser CX-400BT. 

On a budget, then get Lypertek Tevi.


----------



## mbk

SemiAudiophile said:


> I've been out of the headphone game for a while but recently got into TWS ear buds for their portability, convenience, and traveling.
> 
> My 3 favorite right now are the Lypertek Tevi, Sennheiser CX400BT, and Grado GT220.
> 
> ...



Can you give us a comparison between the Senns, Tevis, and Grados?


----------



## clerkpalmer

Am I correct that the grado has no water proof rating? Bummer.


----------



## deuter

Does anyone know what online stores will ship the Cambridge Melomania Touch overseas, Iam in Australia and I cannot locally buy it. Thanks for your help.


----------



## deuter

Kuli said:


> IMO Technics EAH-AZ70W. It has two sound signatures. A very neutral sound signature with a wide soundstage without turning on ANC or pass through modes and a bass boosted, similar to Cambridge Melomania Touch, when either is on.  Detail retrieval and imaging are way better than Sennheiser CX-400BT.
> 
> On a budget, then get Lypertek Tevi.


What else have you heard, compared to models like the Grado etc.


----------



## cresny

For those interested, this review comparing MTW2 and Devialet Gemini seems really accurate. I don't have the MTWs but this mirrors my thoughts comparing to the Sony xm3s. https://portativ.ua/blog/obzor-naushnikov-devialet-gemini-hi-end-sredi-true-wireless.html (Google Translate is your friend).


----------



## dj24

Can anyone recommend a Bluetooth transmitter for a TV with Soundbar that works very well with 2 different TWS simultaneously?  Ideally it'll play two sets of TWS (myself and the wife's Jabra Elite 75 and Buds+) with no lip sync issues.  We'll mostly use it late at night watching movies when everyone's asleep.


----------



## Kuli (Feb 8, 2021)

deuter said:


> What else have you heard, compared to models like the Grado etc.


Cambridge Melomania Touch, 1more Triple Driver, Sony XM3, Sennheiser MW2 and hifiman tws600

Haven't heard the Grados


----------



## CocaCola15

samandhi said:


> Unless you like HIGHLY boosted bass, recessed mids (but mids are also very thin), and rolled off treble (worse than the Sennheiser "veil" IMO), the MT is not the one. I kept reading that same thing too, and I'm not sure why some of the reviewers are talking the sound quality up so much, and calling them very neutral. They are far from neutral. It almost made me angry when I bought them based on reviewers saying they were neutral, and then they were not.


I have to agree with this assessment of the MTs. At first I EQ’d them, but in the end returned them preferring the Status Between Pro model (only available on Indiegogo) because the latter are much more balanced, triple driver mode but no ANC. Having said that I still like the original Melomania 1s quite a bit, keepers and a steal for $79 on Amazon.


----------



## deuter

CocaCola15 said:


> I have to agree with this assessment of the MTs. At first I EQ’d them, but in the end returned them preferring the Status Between Pro model (only available on Indiegogo) because the latter are much more balanced, triple driver mode but no ANC. Having said that I still like the original Melomania 1s quite a bit, keepers and a steal for $79 on Amazon.


I do need excellent bass, mostly listening to Spotify and YouTube. Music genre is vocal trance. I need something that is significantly better in audio quality to the Senhheiser Momentum Gen 1.


----------



## EMEM2049

The issue I have with wireless IEMs is if you have a good DAP (Acoustic Research, HiFiMan, Astell&Kern, etc.) they just don't hold up compared to to wired IEMs. I don't see them ever infiltrating that niche personally.

They are very handy for answering calls and for general use on smartphones with no headphone jack though.


----------



## bladefd

deuter said:


> I do need excellent bass, mostly listening to Spotify and YouTube. Music genre is vocal trance. I need something that is significantly better in audio quality to the Senhheiser Momentum Gen 1.



I don't think you are going to find 'significantly better' in audio quality over MTW1. For that, you would probably have to go wired IEMs.

The Devialet Gemini are probably your best bet to get better sound quality, but I don't think I would consider it significantly better. My personal favorites are Melomania Touch and Sony wf1000-xm3, but neither are neutral. Best sound quality I've personally heard was cx400bt, which is MTW2 sound with same drivers. Several posters here said Gemini sound better. Still, I doubt they are head-and-shoulders better.


----------



## bladefd

EMEM2049 said:


> The issue I have with wireless IEMs is if you have a good DAP (Acoustic Research, HiFiMan, Astell&Kern, etc.) they just don't hold up compared to to wired IEMs. I don't see them ever infiltrating that niche personally.
> 
> They are very handy for answering calls and for general use on smartphones with no headphone jack though.



It seems the day of IEMs are coming to an end. Headphone jacks are pretty much going away across the board in smartphones. I guess that's one way for them to bring down the smartphone sizes more but more importantly bring down the production cost+make bit more money with one chip out.


----------



## CocaCola15 (Feb 8, 2021)

EMEM2049 said:


> The issue I have with wireless IEMs is if you have a good DAP (Acoustic Research, HiFiMan, Astell&Kern, etc.) they just don't hold up compared to to wired IEMs. I don't see them ever infiltrating that niche personally.
> 
> They are very handy for answering calls and for general use on smartphones with no headphone jack though.


TW IEMs won’t infiltrate that niche because they are a different niche altogether. For sitting at home (or wherever) sure high end wired IEMs are superior. But sitting at home some, me included, would rather opt for full-sized or even on-ear phones to use with high end DAPs. For travel, walking, exercising etc., nothing beats the TW niche for sound/comvenience. And the wireless to SQ gap has closed considerably I think. Just glad my old ears can hardly tell the difference, though I do switch to wired DAC assisted full size phones in my easy chair.
They are for more than answering calls, TW IEMs, that is.


----------



## zeinharis

mbk said:


> In my opinion, no. The GT220 seems to have a stronger bass boost than their full size phones. The treble on full size Grados also seems brighter to me.
> 
> And obviously, there is a big difference in general between a full size open air headphone and an IEM, but I’m ignoring that for the purposes of the answer.



thank you very much for your input.

So basically the GT220 is a different “creature” (tunning), and yes I’m aware of that (the IEM vs Full sized headphones) thing.


----------



## deuter

bladefd said:


> I don't think you are going to find 'significantly better' in audio quality over MTW1. For that, you would probably have to go wired IEMs.
> 
> The Devialet Gemini are probably your best bet to get better sound quality, but I don't think I would consider it significantly better. My personal favorites are Melomania Touch and Sony wf1000-xm3, but neither are neutral. Best sound quality I've personally heard was cx400bt, which is MTW2 sound with same drivers. Several posters here said Gemini sound better. Still, I doubt they are head-and-shoulders better.


I haven’t read this whole thread, on the Devialet website the Gemini is advertised for its features and not necessarily for its sound. Whereas MT is all about sound in the reviews atleast.


----------



## bladefd (Feb 8, 2021)

deuter said:


> I haven’t read this whole thread, on the Devialet website the Gemini is advertised for its features and not necessarily for its sound. Whereas MT is all about sound in the reviews atleast.



I have not listened to the Gemini so I can't really compare them from experience. I have read quite a few people though talking highly about them though, especially their sound quality. I also read they have some issues and waiting for firmware update. If you can afford it, it's probably worth trying.

I like my Touch. I think they have very good sound quality. Only way you can tell what you prefer is by trying.  The Touch has free return shipping if you don't like it - I don't know about Gemini.


----------



## EMEM2049

bladefd said:


> It seems the day of IEMs are coming to an end. Headphone jacks are pretty much going away across the board in smartphones. I guess that's one way for them to bring down the smartphone sizes more but more importantly bring down the production cost+make bit more money with one chip out.


Sadly yes. It's beneficial in some ways and detrimental in others. If you haven't got wiresless IEMs you need to buy an adapter (most manufactures don't include it in the bok nowadays). Some adapters don't work on certain phones either. Samsung is an example where you have to buy specific adapters. Alternatively you can use the cheap IEMs that manufacturers include in the box (which is becoming more scarce as well now) or buy a set of wireless IEMs which can be expensive. Really good quality ones can set you back over €100 easily.

So in some ways it does bring down the cost for the manufacturer but sadly not always for the consumer. I don't think wired IEMs will ever truly die out, not for a long time at least, however in smartphones they're almost completely gone due to the removal of the headphone jack like you said.


CocaCola15 said:


> TW IEMs won’t infiltrate that niche because they are a different niche altogether. For sitting at home (or wherever) sure high end wired IEMs are superior. But sitting at home some, me included, would rather opt for full-sized or even on-ear phones to use with high end DAPs. For travel, walking, exercising etc., nothing beats the TW niche for sound/comvenience. And the wireless to SQ gap has closed considerably I think. Just glad my old ears can hardly tell the difference, though I do switch to wired DAC assisted full size phones in my easy chair.
> They are for more than answering calls, TW IEMs, that is.


Totally agree with you. Personally, I prefer wired IEMs for walking and on the go over wireless IEMs but I am lucky to own a pair of Final F7200s which are probably the best wired IEM on the market for versatility in terms of walking, going out an about, build quality, sound, size, weight, cable and such. It doesn't excel at any of the aforementioned but it's very good at everything. 

For others I completely understand why people prefer wireless for convenience. I use wireless earphones on my sim rig, for online meeting, phone calls, etc myself.

But to be truthful, I never see wired IEMs dying out, though I could be wrong. I think they're still the nice middle ground between wireless IEMs and full sized cans.


----------



## SemiAudiophile (Feb 8, 2021)

mbk said:


> Can you give us a comparison between the Senns, Tevis, and Grados?




Here are my general impressions of the 3...

Some things to note:
1. Finding the right ear tips and having a good fit is essential before making any judgement with TWS ear buds.
2. Soundstage will never compare to full-sized open back headphones due to the way they are designed and engineered.

The Tevi's are the most neutral sounding of the 3. With a truly flat response and "clear" sound. Kind of reminds me of the old Grado HP1000's.  Because of that, they are able to retrieve very good but what I would call "perceived detail". They have an "HiFi" sound where it's all about the music reproduction and transparency in it's purest form. What impresses me the most about them is it's ability to achieve a black/silent background where you can just appreciate the music for what it is. They have a sense of musicality (PRaT) to them where  I am able to emotionally connect to the music without it needing to do any special tricks or tuning. They are pretty versatile buds sounding great with most genres. Of the 3, they sound the best with vocals. The midrange is clear, intimate, and slightly sweet. They also shine with acoustic/rock, especially when I boost the bass/treble in EQ.

The CX400BT kind of remind me of the HD600 without the same resolution and detail. They do sound somewhat "neutral", but are definitely colored with the classic Sennheiser sound signature. Presentation is what you'd expect from Sennheiser giving you a feeling that you're about 10-15 rows back. Resolution and detail is slightly better than the Tevi's. There's not much to say that hasn't already been said about these or the MTWS2. Just a very good, versatile sounding pair of buds.

I was really disappointed with the Grado GT220's at first and nearly returned them. With the stock ear tips, I found the sound to be just a little above average (I noticed other reviewers experiencing something similar as well). Sounded V-shaped with uncontrolled, boomy bass. Not what I was expecting from Grado at all. But, once I replaced the ear tips with the extra ones from CX400BT, everything changed for the better. Bass control, definition, and texture improved dramatically; details were able to shine through. I couldn't believe it at first but switching back and forth from the stock tips to the Sennheiser ones definitely made a difference.

With the new tips on, to me the GT220 have the best resolution and detail out of all 3 (not by a lot, but marginally). They also have the best tone, texture, timbre as well; I think they are comparable to the SR225 IMO. Presentation is what you'd expect, with a more forward in-your-face, but also engaging, groovy, foot-tapping sound. I am quite amazed how they were able to retain the tonality of the Grado sound into these ear buds TBH. To me, that's one of my favorite things about the Grado line. I'm really glad they didn't add a companion app and EQ settings with these, as the tuning is just perfect as-is to my ears. Grado fans will not be disappointed!

I can't wait for Gen 2 of these ear buds...a Tevi with higher resolution drivers or a Reference Series RS1 equivalent of the GT220's???? One only can dream!!!


----------



## CocaCola15 (Feb 8, 2021)

EMEM2049 said:


> Sadly yes. It's beneficial in some ways and detrimental in others. If you haven't got wiresless IEMs you need to buy an adapter (most manufactures don't include it in the bok nowadays). Some adapters don't work on certain phones either. Samsung is an example where you have to buy specific adapters. Alternatively you can use the cheap IEMs that manufacturers include in the box (which is becoming more scarce as well now) or buy a set of wireless IEMs which can be expensive. Really good quality ones can set you back over €100 easily.
> 
> So in some ways it does bring down the cost for the manufacturer but sadly not always for the consumer. I don't think wired IEMs will ever truly die out, not for a long time at least, however in smartphones they're almost completely gone due to the removal of the headphone jack like you said.
> 
> ...


Wired IEMs will always have a role in portable (or even listening in place) audio I would wager. I bought the BLON 03, for example, after lots of positive posts. They sound very good with a balanced cable and the EarStudio ES100 plugged into an LG V20. But I just end up listening to the Fidelio  X2HR instead (same setup). But once I leave home, it’s the Wireless IEMs in my ears, albeit my less than perfect pair.


----------



## samandhi

EMEM2049 said:


> Sadly yes. It's beneficial in some ways and detrimental in others. If you haven't got wiresless IEMs you need to buy an adapter (most manufactures don't include it in the bok nowadays). Some adapters don't work on certain phones either. Samsung is an example where you have to buy specific adapters. Alternatively you can use the cheap IEMs that manufacturers include in the box (which is becoming more scarce as well now) or buy a set of wireless IEMs which can be expensive. Really good quality ones can set you back over €100 easily.
> 
> So in some ways it does bring down the cost for the manufacturer but sadly not always for the consumer. I don't think wired IEMs will ever truly die out, not for a long time at least, however in smartphones they're almost completely gone due to the removal of the headphone jack like you said.
> 
> ...


It may seem like they are dying out, but in reality, there are more new audiophiles than there ever used to be. A lot more people are waking up to the poor sound quality they have been subjected to (from song quality to the equipment passed off to the mainstream). IMO I think IEMs are on the rise actually, what with above quality portable DAPS that are affordable even for the mainstream, and cheaper costs but with better materials, like micro planar magnetic IEMs. 10 years ago this would be unheard of, but nowadays you can buy a set for about $110(ish).

There will always be the masses that don't care (or can't tell the difference between an mp3 and DSD), and those are the people that the Best Buy quality products are made for (again IMO). There is nothing wrong with this, but after hearing good quality sound through good IEMs and headphones, it is very tough going back to Beats, and Bose, and the things patterned after those devices (and let's face it, most are nowadays, because there is a ton of money to be made from this market).

I don't believe that the removal of the HP jack was for space, or cost (to us), but was for potential better margins for them. I also believe that Apple (being the first to do this, I think) did it to stay relevant. They haven't really innovated for a long time (at that point), happy to rest on their name alone. I think they created this false trend to be back in the field as a industry leader (which they DID used to be, I'll admit). 

Other phone makers just followed the leader. Samsung being one of the last to ditch the jack (even though they put out a commercial making fun of Apple for doing this when they first announced they would be taking out the jack). I believe that LG is REALLY trying to keep it alive, but the problem is that portable DAPS have come down SOOO far in price that they really can't compete (eg, the DX160 puts out 1.2W from balanced, whereas the LG can't keep up in that front). 

For myself, I am happy with having a portable DAP that can be mobile, or can drive some of the hardest cans on the market, and sound fantastic. I'll leave the phone for phone calls and texts, and web searches, etc... I realize this might be a bit more inconvenient for those used to using their phone for EVERYTHING except taking a crap, but alas, I am from a generation that had to use a rotary phone to make phone calls, and had to contend with long distance, and had to pay by the hour for (dial-up) internet usage.. 

Don't get me wrong, I am still on the search for the best sounding TWS I can find, but it isn't really out of necessity or even really convenience. I am doing it because of the addiction that inflicts most of us on this site to begin with... lol

Just my 2cents!


----------



## EMEM2049

samandhi said:


> It may seem like they are dying out, but in reality, there are more new audiophiles than there ever used to be. A lot more people are waking up to the poor sound quality they have been subjected to (from song quality to the equipment passed off to the mainstream). IMO I think IEMs are on the rise actually, what with above quality portable DAPS that are affordable even for the mainstream, and cheaper costs but with better materials, like micro planar magnetic IEMs. 10 years ago this would be unheard of, but nowadays you can buy a set for about $110(ish).
> 
> There will always be the masses that don't care (or can't tell the difference between an mp3 and DSD), and those are the people that the Best Buy quality products are made for (again IMO). There is nothing wrong with this, but after hearing good quality sound through good IEMs and headphones, it is very tough going back to Beats, and Bose, and the things patterned after those devices (and let's face it, most are nowadays, because there is a ton of money to be made from this market).
> 
> ...


Couldn't agree more. Saps have been coming down in prices substantially. I was very lucky to pick up an Acoustic Research AR-M2 for €550 incuding delivery, brand new. Not so long ago, that was a £999 unit.

Same with the Astell&Kern SP1000M. Very fortunate to pay €1,125 including delivery and a case brand new. Used to be around €2,400 if memory serves me correct.

So I agree, I think wired IEMs and headphones are growing because of falling prices of DAPs and simply better quality being pushed out. Kinda odd that wired IEMs and cans are growing as a niche but diminishing as a mainstream product. I think it's a good thing personally.



CocaCola15 said:


> Wired IEMs will always have a role in portable (or even listening in place) audio I would wager. I bought the BLON 03, for example, after lots of positive posts. They sound very good with a balanced cable and the EarStudio ES100 plugged into an LG V20. But I just end up listening to the Fidelio  X2HR instead (same setup). But once I leave home, it’s the Wireless IEMs in my ears, albeit my less than perfect pair.


I use my wired IEMs and DAP everywhere. I user to be petrified I'd break them when heading out, but once I got over the fear of damaging or breaking them, I started to enjoy the music a lot more.


----------



## mbk

SemiAudiophile said:


> Here are my general impressions of the 3...
> 
> Some things to note:
> 1. Finding the right ear tips and having a good fit is essential before making any judgement with TWS ear buds.
> ...



This is a great post, thanks so much. Could you post a pic of the difference between the Grado eartip and the Sennheiser? I’ve swapped the Grados for some spinfit tips and I didn’t notice much difference. Maybe need to give it more time.

I, too, was disappointed with the Grado out of the box. But after a few days I was in love with them. I’ve always been skeptical of burn-in, but I was convinced they came to life after a few days of listening.


----------



## CocaCola15 (Feb 9, 2021)

@EMEM ... At those DAP prices, even discounted, you are talking about a very small sample of consumers. I went through a costly period with DAPs and headphones/IEMs, including JH customs. But now, using either my LG 20 as a DAP or my iPhone 8+ Plus some decent BT IEMs keeps me happy. If that puts me among the great unwashed, so be it.  Anyway, Back to whether or not it’s too soon to switch to wireless. I sort of made that decision I guess, when it comes to IEMs.


----------



## clerkpalmer

> I haven’t read this whole thread, on the Devialet website the Gemini is advertised for its features and not necessarily for its sound. Whereas MT is all about sound in the reviews atleast.


i can’t speak to the marketing but buy them for the sound not the features. The features suck. The sound however does not suck.


----------



## clerkpalmer

bladefd said:


> It seems the day of IEMs are coming to an end. Headphone jacks are pretty much going away across the board in smartphones. I guess that's one way for them to bring down the smartphone sizes more but more importantly bring down the production cost+make bit more money with one chip out.


I agree with this. It may take a while and perhaps another breakthrough in BT sq, but TWS will keep eating away at the iem market slowly. Soon enough the established high end iem manufacturers will all start making TWS. It’s already happening. It’s like the gasoline engines or blockbuster video or cable tv, they are dead men walking. A small niche might survive but the gap between wired and BT will shrink to the point that only the most discerning ears will accept the trade offs. My Ananda BT are proof that while not perfect, high end sound can be achieved through BT. We aren’t there yet and it’s probably going to take a stable high res codec with good battery life to emerge but it will happen sooner than later.


----------



## cresny

clerkpalmer said:


> i can’t speak to the marketing but buy them for the sound not the features. The features suck. The sound however does not suck.


I think it depends on what is meant by "features". ANC and Transparency mode might be called features and though basic, they are done very well. Setup and connectivity is where they do a face plant.


----------



## EMEM2049

CocaCola15 said:


> @EMEM ... At those DAP prices, even discounted, you are talking about a very small sample of consumers. I went through a costly period with DAPs and headphones/IEMs, including JH customs. But now, using either my LG 20 as a DAP or my iPhone 8+ Plus some decent VT IENs Keeps me happy. If that puts me among the great unwashed, so be it.  Anyway, Back to whether or not it’s too soon to switch to wireless. I sort of made that decision I guess, when it comes to IEMs.


Very much agree with you when it comes to DAPs being very niche even at discounted prices.

When it comes to whether it's time to go wireless or not, I think it's a very nuanced discussion. However, I genuinely believe it can be boiled down to whether you use a DAP or a phone. For phones you have almost no choice but to go wireless, so logically, I think it's the best option. Cambridge Audio and Soul make some very good wireless IEMs for under €100 and if you pair that with something like a Galaxy S20 FE which can be bought for €500 and is essentially a toned down flagship in many regards, then you get a lot for your money. Musically and sonically, I don't think you will be able to compare them to wired IEMs but you do gain a lot in terms of practicality, convenience, portability and such. But if you're like myself and really strive for sound quality, I think wired IEMs and DAPs are here to stay for a long time. 

In the end I believe it's where you categorize yourself. Decent wireless IEMs paired with a capable phone will serve most people more than well enough.

I don't know how many people here are into sim racing, but it somewhat reminds me of the belt vs direct drive driven wheels. Belt is cheaper, more practical, more consumer friendly, more compatible and will do the job fine. However, a direct drive wheel just elevates the experience, although you have to make compromises, usually with the wallet 😅

I don't think the two are dissimilar in many ways.


----------



## tiagopinto

samandhi said:


> I don't disagree with this, and have the same question. Maybe they are just catering to the masses, and let's face it, most people actually like the typical "V" shaped, boomy bass, veiled treble that is so typical of non-audiophile type of manufactures. I personally find this sound is really bad to my ears, but for years it has effected music quality in general, services rendered (low quality mp3 services), and artists recording of the music itself. I have read somewhere where some artists actually record their music poorly on purpose, or as they would put it "to sound the best on the typical headphones". I don't have a source for this, but I think I read it once when I was researching streaming services like Tidal.



Interesting. There are like minded people here. I also don’t (and don’t want to) understand the “catering for the masses” concept. The masses didn’t ask to listen to bloated bass, recessed mids or veiled highs. Someone gave it to them, also to mask poor quality mp3’s, and the masses ate it. They didn’t even fight to listen to what their favorite artists intended them to listen to...

Fortunately, there are still a few manufacturers who cater for the music lover in me, although not as much in the TWS market, as I believe they think this fast growing niche is just for reggaeton loving kids. It’s not.

If many music lovers keep buying that type of thrashy sound in the (almost ubiquitous) desire to “correct it via EQ”, the manufacturers will not change the product because they’ll keep selling.

In my opinion, it should be the opposite. Manufacturers can still imprint their “signature sound” on a more neutral and trustworthy frequency response and then, whoever wants to feel like they’re “in da club” or whatever, can use that EQ and boost that bass... and “make” their sound, closer to their preference. Not the other way around. 

Just hopping. And wishing manufacturers would read this.


----------



## tiagopinto

deuter said:


> What is currently the top true wireless headphone?
> I do have the Sennheiser Momentum Gen 1 but reading that Cambridge Audio Melomania Touch is probably the top contender.



In all honesty, I don’t have the experience of many people here, regarding trying many TWS. I’ve tried a few. But I’ve tried many more full sized headphones, wired and Bluetooth.

If budget was no issue, I’d try the Senn MTW2, the B&O e8 3rd gen. and the Grado GT220. But I really don’t want to invest “too much” in a more volatile type of product like I believe TWS are.

I did recently buy the Melomania Touch and I’m very impressed with their sound quality. For 140€, I think it’s hard to beat. They did have a few connection issues at first but these have been corrected via firmware. I like the fit, the battery, the controls. They do have transparency mode which I use for cycling. If they had ANC and Qi they’d be “almost” perfect.


----------



## tiagopinto

DRuM said:


> Thanks. Yeah,  I'd read that same review stating aptx ll but since it's the only place mentioning it,  I too have my doubts.
> 
> Do you think aptx ll buds would make much of a difference to lag when using an aptx ll transmitter? Apparently there's extra delay just from the tv audio to the transmitter.
> 
> ...



I have a Sony tv and it’s not lag free with the Melomania Touch. It gets better with the Aonic 50. But it’s not a feature I really use often. I guess most brands are just trying to sell more units at a moderate or lower price and there’s only so much technology they can fit in there. 

I just bought a Taotronics transmitter and I’m hopping it won’t be as bad. Also, my av receiver allows me to correct sound delay, so it can be improved.


----------



## tiagopinto

samandhi said:


> Unless you like HIGHLY boosted bass, recessed mids (but mids are also very thin), and rolled off treble (worse than the Sennheiser "veil" IMO), the MT is not the one. I kept reading that same thing too, and I'm not sure why some of the reviewers are talking the sound quality up so much, and calling them very neutral. They are far from neutral. It almost made me angry when I bought them based on reviewers saying they were neutral, and then they were not.



Here I agree to disagree.


----------



## tiagopinto

deuter said:


> Does anyone know what online stores will ship the Cambridge Melomania Touch overseas, Iam in Australia and I cannot locally buy it. Thanks for your help.



I bought mine directly on the Cambridge Audio website. I guess they’ll ship wherever, please check.


----------



## ForgotMyName

People on this site have a distorted view of what "bloated bass" is. I've listened to a handful of the headphones listed on here, and can tell that the community doesn't like ANY type of impact in their headphones and prefer a hot treble without any thud at all. 

Remember, hip hop is the most popular genre. So companies are going to have to make headphones with bass. Not everything is going to be tuned for 40 year olds who listen to classical.


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## tinyman392 (Feb 9, 2021)

ForgotMyName said:


> People on this site have a distorted view of what "bloated bass" is. I've listened to a handful of the headphones listed on here, and can tell that the community doesn't like ANY type of impact in their headphones and prefer a hot treble without any thud at all.
> 
> Remember, hip hop is the most popular genre. So companies are going to have to make headphones with bass. Not everything is going to be tuned for 40 year olds who listen to classical.



You're in an audiophile community, they tend to prefer sound with more linear bass presentation, even if it's elevated 5-10 dB, they still prefer something linear.  Some don't mind a boost in the sub-bass (< 100 Hz for example), but having a boost closer to the 200-400 Hz range generally creates this bloat that most talk about.  You don't have to have big bass to have a strong impact by the way.  There is also such a thing as too treble happy too.

Edit: I'll also add that a lot of older generation also prefer a warmer headphone to listen to (modest linear push in the bass, slight reduction in treble, or both).  I think the push of the Harman target also kind of puts that more in perspective.


----------



## bubsdaddy

I recently purchased the Jabra Active 75t. I like the sound but there are two issues that are driving me nuts. First, even with the largest tips they rotate out and fall out of my ears - and I am not even using them for running yet. If anyone has found a tip that is more reliable I'd like to hear about it.  Second, there is no way to turn the NC on without using the Sounds app. The 75t doesn't remember the last setting for NC. I confirmed this with Jabra support. How odd.


----------



## tracyca

SoundChoice said:


> Hi, I haven't posted in a while, but have been reading what everyone's been sharing, and trying (futilely) to keep up on the Discovery thread (and others), but really enjoying this one.
> 
> I bought the Jabra 85t and am trying to make them work. The sound is pretty good, and the ANC is probably among best in class (up there with Tronsmart Apollo Bold and XM3). The two major problems I have with them are fit and the volume control. With these oval tips, I thought the fit was one of those semi-open types that sort of hangs on your ear and is designed not to have a seal. But with the latest firmware, the "My Fit" part of it wouldn't be happy no matter how much I adjusted them or mashed them into my ear. Finally, I switched tips to the larger 14mm silicons (the common kind found on AliExpress in packs of 4 of varying sizes including double-flange) and voila - My Fit was happy. So they _are_ meant to get a seal - Jabra just doesn't provide tips that make that happen if you have largish ears, and you're going to rip a SpinFit trying to stretch it over that oval racetrack nozzle.
> 
> ...


push and hold right earbud to up volume and push and hold left to volume down.


----------



## deuter

tiagopinto said:


> I bought mine directly on the Cambridge Audio website. I guess they’ll ship wherever, please check.


I did check and you cannot select any other country.


----------



## Canabuc

DigDub said:


> Fiil android app and translation for use with t1 pro and lite as they don't have English app support yet.
> 
> Download apk from
> http://fiil.cn/cn/download.php


My Fiil just arrived today from China. Only tested for 5 minutes. Overall pleasantly surprised with the sound and the fit it of the box was comfortable. No idea which tips to use but so far the medium seen to create a good enough seal for full bass.

Some questions regarding the app and setup.
In the great pic you provided there is a volume control setting for media and voice call. Does this sync with my phone's Bluetooth volume? Seems it keeps changing and not sure if it is because it is responding to what my phone's controls tell it or not.

Also, the custom EQ when I change settings and save them it negatively impacts the overall volume sort of like when I try that in my built in equalizer in my galaxy note phone.
Yet if I change to a built in order for bass it treble or neutral out gets lots again. Does the equalizer change this frequencies only when you change them and touch nothing else after saving? Or does it as those EQ changes in to of the stock presets?

As for ANC. Tested it in bathroom with noisy fan. Definitely not in same class as Jabra or Samsung but was as good as JBL and there was a difference.
Ambient mode is very soft but is better than not having.

Sound so far is quite good will need to do testing to check sound stage separation etc. Buds pro still have the most detailed treble of any bid I have tested and these are not better than the Jabras in that regard but are also 1/3 the price.


----------



## Canabuc (Feb 9, 2021)

Of course the MTW2 also went on sale yesterday at about 250.$329 in Canada and are inbound. If most people say they are the best all around sounding TWS I am willing to pay that amount but not the 400$they are usually asking.
Be interesting to see how they compare.


----------



## deuter

Anyone here with the Devialet Gemini care to provide your feedback on those earphones?


----------



## samandhi

ForgotMyName said:


> People on this site have a distorted view of what "bloated bass" is. I've listened to a handful of the headphones listed on here, and can tell that the community doesn't like ANY type of impact in their headphones and prefer a hot treble without any thud at all.
> 
> Remember, hip hop is the most popular genre. So companies are going to have to make headphones with bass. Not everything is going to be tuned for 40 year olds who listen to classical.





tinyman392 said:


> You're in an audiophile community, they tend to prefer sound with more linear bass presentation, even if it's elevated 5-10 dB, they still prefer something linear.  Some don't mind a boost in the sub-bass (< 100 Hz for example), but having a boost closer to the 200-400 Hz range generally creates this bloat that most talk about.  You don't have to have big bass to have a strong impact by the way.  There is also such a thing as too treble happy too.
> 
> Edit: I'll also add that a lot of older generation also prefer a warmer headphone to listen to (modest linear push in the bass, slight reduction in treble, or both).  I think the push of the Harman target also kind of puts that more in perspective.


I would argue that the people that LIKE the bloated bass are the ones that actually have a distorted view of what the artists meant the music to sound like. I am not trying to offend here, but I am in agreeance with tinyman392 in this. There is a major difference between good quality bass that has more quantity, and simply giving more quantity with poor quality. Also, most audiophiles will tell you they also don't like hot treble at all, but if there is a veil on the treble or it is reduced too much, not only does it make the tone of the instruments wrong, but you miss details in a song that you would not otherwise. 

I love rap, and mix it up with rock, metal, R&B, etc... all the time. If you were to listen to rap from something like a pair of Hifiman Ananda, or Deva, etc... (just for example) you would find that you can give it a really good bass boost but it will still be very clean sounding AND you will still hear the rest of the music to go along with that wonderful impact of bass hit. I also love a good rumble in my bass, but again, if it is flabby, loose, bloated, it just doesn't sound good (unless of course the artists intended it to sound that way). It is like one note being played over and over and over.

If some of the headphones you have listened to don't give you this picture, then you have chosen the wrong ones, or bass is all you are about, and can safely use a crossover to tune everything out except the bass. If, however you have an open mind and truly DO want to hear good quality sound, then you might try others in turn. That is really the reason the people on here keep buying/selling buying/selling again headphones/IEMs. It is the quest to find the perfect sound (for their ears). If you are happy with the "bloated" sounds, then by all means stick with it, but please don't say that the community has a distorted view of this or that because it does not agree with what your ears like.


----------



## jant71

KEF not really saying when the MU3 are actual going out. Did see an Amazon page went up... https://www.amazon.com/KEF-Noise-Ca...d=1612900709&sourceid=Mozilla-search&sr=8-112 ...and says anywhere from early March to early April. Hope they don't actually look like this in real life:



The medium gray looks pretty good in most pics but that cheap silvery plastic there ^ looks cheap as hell. Hope it is not that plastic trying to look like metal but obviously failing look.


----------



## BigZ12

jant71 said:


> KEF not really saying when the MU3 are actual going out. Did see an Amazon page went up... https://www.amazon.com/KEF-Noise-Ca...d=1612900709&sourceid=Mozilla-search&sr=8-112 ...and says anywhere from early March to early April. Hope they don't actually look like this in real life:
> 
> The medium gray looks pretty good in most pics but that cheap silvery plastic there ^ looks cheap as hell. Hope it is not that plastic trying to look like metal but obviously failing look.


Any info regarding bt codecs?


----------



## TK33

BigZ12 said:


> Any info regarding bt codecs?


SBC and AAC.  No mention of aptX

https://us.kef.com/mu3.html


----------



## jant71 (Feb 9, 2021)

First review declares it "best"  for sound(if you like clear and tight) but not best for noise canceling. I suspect some better fitting might improve the noise cancelling and the sound to not be as "cool". Control scheme is not the best and leaves out rewind.
https://www.translatetheweb.com/?ref=TVert&from=&to=en&a=https://wadaiblog2020.com/mu3-review#

"The overall impression is that it sounds bright and energetic.


In addition, there is no feeling of mingly that is common in completely wireless earphones, and it is very clear.


The balance between the low and medium and high frequencies was good, and personally, it was a sound that I personally liked.


In particular, the tight bass that did not disturb the melody, the brilliant violin and the brilliant gold tube sounded clear without sticking, and I decided on my main machine.


A sound field with a three-dimensional effect that feels depth not only in live recording but also in studio recording.
The left and right are also fairly wide.


By the way, I did not feel white noise.

*Compared to MOMENTUM True Wireless 2*





momentum and Mu3

The bass is available in MOMENTUM True Wireless 2.
However, mu3's bass was not a reverbed bower like MOMENTUM True Wireless 2, but a sharp bass with a clear outline, and it was a quick start.


For example, in Lepin & Gergiev's Tchaikovsky Violin Concerto, the part that rushes into the development of one movement.
One timpany shot and subsequent double bass sound can be heard in MOMENTUM True Wireless 2 with a fairly loud sound.
Mu3 has a tight sound that does not interfere with the melody.
Originally, it is easy to understand the difference because it is a recording with a lot of reverberation.


Another low string in Bromstedt's Nielsen immortality, moving from the third movement to the fourth movement, also sounds tighter in Mu3.


Also, even when two timpanies hit in a series, it is a clearer sound in Mu3.


I think the impression changes depending on my taste and the genre I listen to, but I like mu3 bass better because momentum True Wireless 2 often felt that "bass is disturbing" when listening to orchestras.


The medium and high tones sound better than momentum True Wireless 2, which has a rounded sound.


In the last movement coder of Tchaikovsky Symphony No. 5 (recorded in Schorti 1987), I can understand it well by listening to the part where stringed instruments play the theme, but when I listen to it in MOMENTUM True Wireless 2, I feel like it will get excited once in that part.
There are not many sparkly tones containing the oversoning of the violin, and you can hear a calm sound.


When you listen to mu3, you can hear the glittering sound of the violin properly.


In general, Mu3 is better for orchestras."

Would think this could be a bit rushed and the fit could be mastered some and run in may tame some treble and/or looses the suspension where more air is moved giving a bit more warmth to them. Nice to be the first to review but there can be some change with use and learning how best to use. Just the first impression so interesting but not proven accurate just yet. Still a good read with some good info esp. testing the tips that fit with the case. Some cred from someone who has heard MTW2, E8, Aviot "J", Klipsch T5II, Noble Pro, etc.


----------



## dj24

bubsdaddy said:


> I recently purchased the Jabra Active 75t. I like the sound but there are two issues that are driving me nuts. First, even with the largest tips they rotate out and fall out of my ears - and I am not even using them for running yet. If anyone has found a tip that is more reliable I'd like to hear about it.  Second, there is no way to turn the NC on without using the Sounds app. The 75t doesn't remember the last setting for NC. I confirmed this with Jabra support. How odd.



Check out AudioNoob's review here.  I followed his suggestion and purchased the Spinfit 360s and haven't looked back.  For some reason I find Jabra's stock tips to be quite uncomfortable and even worse make my ears quite itchy.


----------



## deuter

The Devialet Gemini is not being sold anymore in Australia as there are software issues, they are waiting for an update to the firmware prior to releasing the product.


----------



## LordToneeus

bubsdaddy said:


> I recently purchased the Jabra Active 75t. I like the sound but there are two issues that are driving me nuts. First, even with the largest tips they rotate out and fall out of my ears - and I am not even using them for running yet. If anyone has found a tip that is more reliable I'd like to hear about it.  Second, there is no way to turn the NC on without using the Sounds app. The 75t doesn't remember the last setting for NC. I confirmed this with Jabra support. How odd.


I had luck with the spinfit CP360’s. They don’t budge. With regard to ANC, for me, once they are updated, one push of the left bud activates “hear through,” two pushes activates ANC, and three pushes turns ANC off.


----------



## SemiAudiophile (Feb 9, 2021)

mbk said:


> This is a great post, thanks so much. Could you post a pic of the difference between the Grado eartip and the Sennheiser? I’ve swapped the Grados for some spinfit tips and I didn’t notice much difference. Maybe need to give it more time.
> 
> I, too, was disappointed with the Grado out of the box. But after a few days I was in love with them. I’ve always been skeptical of burn-in, but I was convinced they came to life after a few days of listening.



This is the best I could do with my phone's camera.



Grado size S on the left, Sennheiser size XS on the right.




Comparison between Grado size S, Sennheiser size S and XS.

Dimensions are similar as you can tell. Sennheiser S is a little taller than Grado S. I use the Sennheiser XS on my Grado's.

I'm not sure why they sound different as I did have a good fit with the Grado ear tips. I suspect maybe the silicone is different? The Grados do feel a little flimsy compared to the Senns which are a little more dense.

I highly recommend the Sennheiser tips though if you're not happy with the sound. They can be had for $11 directly from Sennheiser.

***I tried the stock ones again just now just for kicks and I immediately could hear the droney overpowering bass.


----------



## mbk

SemiAudiophile said:


> This is the best I could do with my phone's camera.
> 
> Grado size S on the left, Sennheiser size XS on the right.
> 
> ...



Thanks I’ll order a set of the Sennheiser tips.


----------



## Canabuc

Anyone using Fiil T1PRO have any EQ settings they can recommend?
They are really good sounding with more bass than I expected based on every one saying the earfun free pro is tuned for more bass out of the same bud. I find even in the treble preset there is plenty of bass. It is not quite to 75t level but easily matches 85t and can surpass it in bass boost mode over stock 85t settings..

The MTW2 have very nice sound and wide soundstage. Volume kind of weak. About 10 percent weaker.

Not sure I can justify the cost even at the same price. Can get the Jabras and the cx400 combined for same price as the MTW2


----------



## Caipirina

mux7 said:


> I don't want to put a damper, but has anyone been surprised at the sound quality of wired iems/headphones after using wireless for so long? I've been using Airpods Pros for a very long time, which I thought sounded decent. I then recently got the Galaxy Buds Pro, and those sounded even better, albeit less comfortable. I decided to chuck 20$ and get the Sony MH750's and was blown away at the sound quality compared to my wireless options at a cost of 1/10 of the Buds Pro.



I actually had a reverse experience the other day, tried a few of my wired IEMs and as soon as I dared moving I could hear the rustling of the wire against clothing / skin / beard ...


----------



## chifihead

mux7 said:


> I don't want to put a damper, but has anyone been surprised at the sound quality of wired iems/headphones after using wireless for so long? I've been using Airpods Pros for a very long time, which I thought sounded decent. I then recently got the Galaxy Buds Pro, and those sounded even better, albeit less comfortable. I decided to chuck 20$ and get the Sony MH750's and was blown away at the sound quality compared to my wireless options at a cost of 1/10 of the Buds Pro.


The gist makes sense, but not with the MH750s. I would say you just like the tonality of the MH750s more. 

Did you try using the app with the Buds Pro, and changing the EQ preset? If you like the MH750, the "Clear" preset might tickle your fancy. 



Caipirina said:


> I actually had a reverse experience the other day, tried a few of my wired IEMs and as soon as I dared moving I could hear the rustling of the wire against clothing / skin / beard ...


Oof, yeah I hate that! That's what makes aftermarket cables worth it.


----------



## diimaan

jant71 said:


> First review declares it "best"  for sound(if you like clear and tight) but not best for noise canceling. I suspect some better fitting might improve the noise cancelling and the sound to not be as "cool". Control scheme is not the best and leaves out rewind.



It’s been five days since I made the purchase in their EU page. I live in Germany. 
I contacted KEF support on Facebook, they responded by saying shipping will begin in approx 8-10 days due to the Pandemic.

I will update here once I get them


----------



## Canabuc

DigDub said:


> The Fiil t1 pro ranks at the top of my tws pile now for sound quality, with the buds pro close behind. T1 pro has clear and natural highs and mids. The bass hits deep and is very fluid.


Can you recommend any EQ settings?


----------



## 543293 (Feb 16, 2021)

Canabuc said:


> Anyone using Fiil T1PRO have any EQ settings they can recommend?
> They are really good sounding with more bass than I expected based on every one saying the earfun free pro is tuned for more bass out of the same bud. I find even in the treble preset there is plenty of bass. It is not quite to 75t level but easily matches 85t and can surpass it in bass boost mode over stock 85t settings..



Hello, new user here and owner of the FIILs. I'd like to share this EQ setting for the T1 Pro. If possible, may T1 Pro users please try this configuration in the FIIL app and let me know how it sounds? This aims for a deeper, bigger bass while retaining control, raises the lower mids a fair amount to boost warmth while keeping clear of muddiness, and slightly reduces the treble peaks present from 2k to 8k in the T1 Pro. Essentially, this aims to achieve the best of both worlds: the earfun free pro bassy sound without the somewhat-intrusive and sloppy bass, and the fiil t1 lite balanced sound with reduced treble harshness. (Note: I use the stock eartips on the T1 pros)

https://imgur.com/a/tijTktr

For precise values, you may input these on a digital EQ app:
30 = +3.5 db or +3 db
60 = +3.5 db or +3 db
125 = +3.5 db or +3 db
250 = +1.5 db
500 = 0 db
1k = 0 db
2k = -1 db
4k = -3 db to -2 db
8k = -3 db or -2 db
16k = 0 db

EDIT:  cut for 4k and 8k changed to range from -2 to -3. The former to preserve more presence and detail, the latter for less fatigue and added bass presence. Also changed to +3 db for bands from 30 to 125, less mud and more natural sounding lows.


----------



## mbk

SemiAudiophile said:


> This is the best I could do with my phone's camera.
> 
> Grado size S on the left, Sennheiser size XS on the right.
> 
> ...



All sizes out of stock in Sennheiser site. Since you have the different sizes of both, which Sennheiser size is most comparable to the Grado medium? That’s what fits me the best.


----------



## Canabuc

Lorelock said:


> Hello, new user here and owner of the FIILs. I'd like to share this EQ setting for the T1 Pro. If possible, may T1 Pro users please try this configuration in the FIIL app and let me know how it sounds? This aims for a deeper, bigger bass while retaining control, raises the lower mids a fair amount to boost warmth while keeping clear of muddiness, and slightly reduces the treble peaks present from 2k to 8k in the T1 Pro. Essentially, this aims to achieve the best of both worlds: the earfun free pro bassy sound without the somewhat-intrusive and sloppy bass, and the fiil t1 lite balanced sound with reduced treble harshness. (Note: I use the stock eartips on the T1 pros)
> 
> https://imgur.com/a/tijTktr
> 
> ...


Tried it was nice but felt I needed more treble than that but agree to drop the mids and I boosted upper treble to get more detail


----------



## SemiAudiophile

mbk said:


> All sizes out of stock in Sennheiser site. Since you have the different sizes of both, which Sennheiser size is most comparable to the Grado medium? That’s what fits me the best.






I would go with the Small ear tip. The height is about the same as the Grado Medium maybe just a tiny bit taller, but the Grado's are fatter as well. 

The Sennheiser Mediums are surprisingly shorter than both but fatter than the Grados. 

I guess it depends on your fit? If you want it to be deeper in your ear or if you want better seal?


----------



## regancipher (Feb 14, 2021)

Some new reviews from me, kinda difficult without a working phone but about ten or so to upload, here's the first four:

Tronsmart Q10
Taotronics Soundliberty 80
FIIL CC2
Soundcore Q30


----------



## tinyman392

@SemiAudiophile those Sennheiser tips look similar to some generic ones that HiFiMan used to offer with their IEMs.  I think Heir Audio (from like 5 years ago) did the same.  They were very good tips though.  HiFiMan no longer offers those tips and Heir Audio doesn't exist anymore, the main person in charge went on to create Noble Audio.


----------



## erockg

Man, I just got the Grado's and I'm comparing them to my Devialet Gemini.  They are killer.  Less features, but man, they do sound good.


----------



## Forceberg

erockg said:


> Man, I just got the Grado's and I'm comparing them to my Devialet Gemini.  They are killer.  Less features, but man, they do sound good.



intersting! Im looking to replace my faulty Geminis. Waiting for the KEF Mu3. Would you say the Grado’s sound better than Geminis?


----------



## Canabuc

First few listens with MTW2. I know late to the party.
Expected more to be honest.
Bass is good. Vocals good. Wide soundstage.
But lower mids seemed like the bass bled into them. Volume is low too had to go to over 80% whereas the Jabra would need 65 and the Fiil 70.

Once EQ'd I really enjoy the Fiil t1 pro sound. Similar to Jabra when both EQ'd but with the treble detail being a bit better.

Outside of the Chinese app and a case lid that closes too easy all the time these are quite the steal.

ANC and ambient are not class leading but full controls great fit and comfort and sound with Qi charging and a tiny case for 60$! US


----------



## erockg

Forceberg said:


> intersting! Im looking to replace my faulty Geminis. Waiting for the KEF Mu3. Would you say the Grado’s sound better than Geminis?


Yeah, I just packed up my Gemini's for a return.  I'll revisit when they fix things.  I think the Grado's sound more natural, but still listening.  The soundstage is comparable and the fit is also more secure.  I bought them from Crutchfield here in the US.  They shipped FAST.


----------



## DigDub

Canabuc said:


> Can you recommend any EQ settings?


I leave it at flat.


----------



## mbk

SemiAudiophile said:


> I would go with the Small ear tip. The height is about the same as the Grado Medium maybe just a tiny bit taller, but the Grado's are fatter as well.
> 
> The Sennheiser Mediums are surprisingly shorter than both but fatter than the Grados.
> 
> I guess it depends on your fit? If you want it to be deeper in your ear or if you want better seal?



That pic is great. I’m more towards the Grado S tip so I’ll probably start with the Senn S once I can find them.

Glad a bunch of people are discovering the Grado... they’re really good.


----------



## howdy

My next purchase will be the Samsung Galaxy pro. I'm jumping in on the Samsung wagon and will soon be getting the S21 ultra. Samsung has really seemed to step it up!


----------



## clerkpalmer

It's a good time to be alive.  I have the Noble Falcon Pro and the Devialet Gemini engaged in a fight to the death.  Both of these TWS sound excellent with a dynamic fun sound.  It's _really _close.  Both are v shaped and both offer an EQ in the app to sculpt the sound (the Falcon responds better to EQ).  If I had to choose one to live with on an island, I'd probably take the Gemini but not without second thoughts.  They sound just a bit more musical and cohesive to me overall with the added bonus of ANC.  Out of the box and without any EQ they sound terrific.  The sub bass is present with very little bleed and there is a little bit of warmth to them. They can be a little shouty but this doesn't usually both me at my age (46 with tinnitus).  I prefer the sizzle to rolled off highs. They remind me of the excellent MW07 but on steroids.  

The Falcon Pro are superb in their own right.  The bass hits hard and fast although perhaps just a bit less sub bass.  They win in terms of clarity and detail.  They also win in terms of soundstage.  While I was concerned about the stem length being too long on the Pro, I actually prefer the fit to the Gemini.  They isolate better and stay put while the Gemini are constantly sliding around when I'm moving.  Noble gets extra points for immediately pairing and updating via the iPhone APP.

Both of these TWS showcase just how good TWS can sound if price is not an object.  I may just have to keep both.


----------



## erockg

clerkpalmer said:


> It's a good time to be alive.  I have the Noble Falcon Pro and the Devialet Gemini engaged in a fight to the death.  Both of these TWS sound excellent with a dynamic fun sound.  It's _really _close.  Both are v shaped and both offer an EQ in the app to sculpt the sound (the Falcon responds better to EQ).  If I had to choose one to live with on an island, I'd probably take the Gemini but not without second thoughts.  They sound just a bit more musical and cohesive to me overall with the added bonus of ANC.  Out of the box and without any EQ they sound terrific.  The sub bass is present with very little bleed and there is a little bit of warmth to them. They can be a little shouty but this doesn't usually both me at my age (46 with tinnitus).  I prefer the sizzle to rolled off highs. They remind me of the excellent MW07 but on steroids.
> 
> The Falcon Pro are superb in their own right.  The bass hits hard and fast although perhaps just a bit less sub bass.  They win in terms of clarity and detail.  They also win in terms of soundstage.  While I was concerned about the stem length being too long on the Pro, I actually prefer the fit to the Gemini.  They isolate better and stay put while the Gemini are constantly sliding around when I'm moving.  Noble gets extra points for immediately pairing and updating via the iPhone APP.
> 
> Both of these TWS showcase just how good TWS can sound if price is not an object.  I may just have to keep both.


Nice!  I want to pick up the NFP, but they're OOS on Amazon.  Got the Grado's and the Melomania Touch today.  Enjoying both but it's early.  Returning the Gemini for sure.  Got tired of the issues and always resetting them.  Hopefully, Devialet irons the issues out.


----------



## Canabuc

erockg said:


> Yeah, I just packed up my Gemini's for a return.  I'll revisit when they fix things.  I think the Grado's sound more natural, but still listening.  The soundstage is comparable and the fit is also more secure.  I bought them from Crutchfield here in the US.  They shipped FAST.


Would be interested





DigDub said:


> I leave it at flat.


So you use the middle stock EQ settings? I tried that and it does sound very good but I found the lows and highs a bit strong.
I went it to the multi band equalizer and got a similar overall sound but with a bit of the treble and upper basslowerwd a bit to bring out some clarity.


----------



## cigarello

Is the fiil t1 pro the best under $50? Needing an upgrade from my dying Anbes 359. Or do you think I should just jump to sony wf1000xm3?


----------



## Canabuc (Feb 11, 2021)

cigarello said:


> Is the fiil t1 pro the best under $50? Needing an upgrade from my dying Anbes 359. Or do you think I should just jump to sony wf1000xm3?


I am very impressed by the comfort and sound of the Fiil. If your primary concern is ANC they wouldn't be my to choice but best sound for the dollar and comfortable fit.

I enjoyed the Sony's but no IP rating and bulky for me meant they didn't suit my needs. And right now they are back up to full price.


----------



## BobJS

howdy said:


> My next purchase will be the Samsung Galaxy pro. I'm jumping in on the Samsung wagon and will soon be getting the S21 ultra. Samsung has really seemed to step it up!



You're aware there's no microSD slot, right?


----------



## jant71

clerkpalmer said:


> It's a good time to be alive.  I have the Noble Falcon Pro and the Devialet Gemini engaged in a fight to the death.  Both of these TWS sound excellent with a dynamic fun sound.  It's _really _close.  Both are v shaped and both offer an EQ in the app to sculpt the sound (the Falcon responds better to EQ).  If I had to choose one to live with on an island, I'd probably take the Gemini but not without second thoughts.  They sound just a bit more musical and cohesive to me overall with the added bonus of ANC.  Out of the box and without any EQ they sound terrific.  The sub bass is present with very little bleed and there is a little bit of warmth to them. They can be a little shouty but this doesn't usually both me at my age (46 with tinnitus).  I prefer the sizzle to rolled off highs. They remind me of the excellent MW07 but on steroids.
> 
> The Falcon Pro are superb in their own right.  The bass hits hard and fast although perhaps just a bit less sub bass.  They win in terms of clarity and detail.  They also win in terms of soundstage.  While I was concerned about the stem length being too long on the Pro, I actually prefer the fit to the Gemini.  They isolate better and stay put while the Gemini are constantly sliding around when I'm moving.  Noble gets extra points for immediately pairing and updating via the iPhone APP.
> 
> Both of these TWS showcase just how good TWS can sound if price is not an object.  I may just have to keep both.



Any issues with the Noble?? Seen some one star reviews due to them not shutting down, playing after they are put in the case. Sound is good but some are not happy with function issues. That KEF review as well listing the Noble as one of the weaker ones as far as ambient performance. I know the Aviot is true so am inclined to believe it and others reviews mention ambient having mechanical sounding nature and such.


----------



## jant71

Not like actually hearing them but does confirm the first comparison vs. the Sennheiser. Seems cooler and more neutral.


----------



## Canabuc (Feb 11, 2021)

jant71 said:


> Any issues with the Noble?? Seen some one star reviews due to them not shutting down, playing after they are put in the case. Sound is good but some are not happy with function issues. That KEF review as well listing the Noble as one of the weaker ones as far as ambient performance. I know the Aviot is true so am inclined to believe it and others reviews mention ambient having mechanical sounding nature and such.


Am curious about the Kef too. Seems to have it all except wireless charging.

That video makes them sound bright and tiny lacking mids and bass though.


----------



## jant71

Canabuc said:


> Am curious about the Kef too. Seems to have it all except wireless charging.


Sure?? Bullet point 2 has it...


----------



## clerkpalmer

jant71 said:


> Any issues with the Noble?? Seen some one star reviews due to them not shutting down, playing after they are put in the case. Sound is good but some are not happy with function issues. That KEF review as well listing the Noble as one of the weaker ones as far as ambient performance. I know the Aviot is true so am inclined to believe it and others reviews mention ambient having mechanical sounding nature and such.


For the first couple of minutes, they were not disconnecting but it seemed to resolve itself.  No issues currently.  Seems to be stable and connect and disconnect as it should.  There also was an update through the EQ app that went smoothly.


----------



## Thesonofkrypton

Glad I didn't buy them, bright sounding and lacking bass is not what I'm looking for.  Sidestepped another landmine lol


----------



## Canabuc

jant71 said:


> Sure?? Bullet point 2 has it...


Is there EQ or app?


----------



## jant71 (Feb 11, 2021)

Canabuc said:


> Is there EQ or app?



Nope. They have two apps for some speakers so they could make one for it but if they will you'd probably have to ask and see what they say.



Thesonofkrypton said:


> Glad I didn't buy them, bright sounding and lacking bass is not what I'm looking for.  Sidestepped another landmine lol



Kinda interested cause of that. My Victor is the warmer type and I MSEB more air and highs. Might be interested to go the other way and add some warmth if they have the air, space and detail and resolution. It is what you end up with is what counts. Have some devices that are warmer as well like my Sony A26 so interesting to see how that pairing would go. Add a bit of warmth for the Cleer Goal which is open so not scared of the KEF being neutral. These seem to be truly neutral not like people calling the Senn neutral and I can see people shying away though.


----------



## KPzypher

Anyone else notice loud hissing with their Grado gt220?  And these have super prominent driver flex even with a slightest movement.


----------



## bladefd

jant71 said:


> Not like actually hearing them but does confirm the first comparison vs. the Sennheiser. Seems cooler and more neutral.




Mu3 seems to sound bit thin in soundstage and almost tinny


----------



## erockg

KPzypher said:


> Anyone else notice loud hissing with their Grado gt220?  And these have super prominent driver flex even with a slightest movement.


I'm checking now, but I'm not sure that I hear anything out of the ordinary.  They sound great.  When do you hear this?  While playing music or when paused?


----------



## david8613

hey guys i have a bunch of true wireless iems from cheap ones to higher end ones. i just pulled out my anbes 359 OMG! these things still sound absolutely awesome!!!! i mean seriously these give competition to alot of my higher end buds. anyone still using theres? any new super budgets that sound this good?


----------



## Dregur (Feb 11, 2021)

So, this is odd. Apparently Samsung sent out a YouTube video telling everyone that they are wearing the Buds Pro wrong. Basically, the mesh is supposed to face downwards.



I personally did not have any uncomfortable fit issues, however I noticed that the ANC works better since I have a better seal now, also I noticed having the mesh face downwards makes the fit a bit shallower. I notice the buds now hovers over my outer concha. This might alleviate some of the fit issues others were having.


----------



## KPzypher

erockg said:


> I'm checking now, but I'm not sure that I hear anything out of the ordinary.  They sound great.  When do you hear this?  While playing music or when paused?



I can hear it even on low volume while music is playing.

Real brief(at work and on my cell), As far as sound, I think these are the least TWS sounding (in a positive way) TWS available.  Tonal balance is surprisingly good for BT, and have the least wacky resonance issues other TWS products tend to suffer from.  Slight emphasis and a tad bit off timbre in the HF but better than others, and the LF is spot on for me with good transient response, although others may find the bass a bit lacking if you're used to wireless products.  Most I've tried had way over boosted bass and typically poorly implemented.  If you're used to good wired open back headphones, I think most of you will find the SQ of GT220 quite pleasant.  

Anyways, I like these a lot and just requested a replacement unit.  I've returned the Klipsch T5ii and ordered a MTW2, but that's another story.


----------



## KPzypher

Dregur said:


> So, this is odd. Apparently Samsung sent out a YouTube video telling everyone that they are wearing the Buds Pro wrong.



I've been wearing them with the mesh facing downwards from day 1.  Thought that was the correct way.  Wasn't aware people have been wearing them upside down.

Anyways, no fit issues for me, although they're not quite as snug as some other products.


----------



## deuter

Any further on the Gemini?


----------



## clerkpalmer

deuter said:


> Any further on the Gemini?


No updates on firmware.


----------



## erockg

deuter said:


> Any further on the Gemini?


As far as -- ?  I returned mine today.  Zero updates.  Tired of the issues and having to reset them every week.  For the cost, not worth the hassle.  Sound was amazing.  Moved to the Grado and Melomania this week.  So far so good.  Also, started therapy for my headphones addition.  Kidding.


----------



## Dregur

KPzypher said:


> I've been wearing them with the mesh facing downwards from day 1.  Thought that was the correct way.  Wasn't aware people have been wearing them upside down.
> 
> Anyways, no fit issues for me, although they're not quite as snug as some other products.



It wasn't upside down, but rather rotated 90 degrees, so the mesh was facing forward. It was definitely how I was wearing it. 

But I agree with you, it's less snug in my ears since the fit is shallower. I wouldn't say it's unsecure though.


----------



## tiagopinto

deuter said:


> I did check and you cannot select any other country.



In the menu you can choose the region and country. Australia is there.


----------



## SemiAudiophile

KPzypher said:


> Anyone else notice loud hissing with their Grado gt220?  And these have super prominent driver flex even with a slightest movement.



I can hear some slight hissing when they are connected but no music is playing. It's not there all the time but it happens occasionally. It's not noticeable when music is playing though.


----------



## fusionramjet

Geekfly has an updated TWS: GF8S, available from Penon.
Anyone know how it differs from the original one?


----------



## dj24

dj24 said:


> Can anyone recommend a Bluetooth transmitter for a TV with Soundbar that works very well with 2 different TWS simultaneously?  Ideally it'll play two sets of TWS (myself and the wife's Jabra Elite 75 and Buds+) with no lip sync issues.  We'll mostly use it late at night watching movies when everyone's asleep.



Fast moving thread...  Suggestions anyone?  Thanks!


----------



## howdy

BobJS said:


> You're aware there's no microSD slot, right?


Yep, that does not bother me. I would just get the 256 or 512gb which is plenty for me. I only stream music from my phone and a have a few DAPs for my other Flac and hi res.


----------



## Canabuc

Dregur said:


> So, this is odd. Apparently Samsung sent out a YouTube video telling everyone that they are wearing the Buds Pro wrong. Basically, the mesh is supposed to face downwards.
> 
> 
> 
> I personally did not have any uncomfortable fit issues, however I noticed that the ANC works better since I have a better seal now, also I noticed having the mesh face downwards makes the fit a bit shallower. I notice the buds now hovers over my outer concha. This might alleviate some of the fit issues others were having.



Actually upset that any way I try them they hurt as they are tied for my favorite for sound quality.


----------



## tiagopinto

samandhi said:


> I would argue that the people that LIKE the bloated bass are the ones that actually have a distorted view of what the artists meant the music to sound like. I am not trying to offend here, but I am in agreeance with tinyman392 in this. There is a major difference between good quality bass that has more quantity, and simply giving more quantity with poor quality. Also, most audiophiles will tell you they also don't like hot treble at all, but if there is a veil on the treble or it is reduced too much, not only does it make the tone of the instruments wrong, but you miss details in a song that you would not otherwise.
> 
> I love rap, and mix it up with rock, metal, R&B, etc... all the time. If you were to listen to rap from something like a pair of Hifiman Ananda, or Deva, etc... (just for example) you would find that you can give it a really good bass boost but it will still be very clean sounding AND you will still hear the rest of the music to go along with that wonderful impact of bass hit. I also love a good rumble in my bass, but again, if it is flabby, loose, bloated, it just doesn't sound good (unless of course the artists intended it to sound that way). It is like one note being played over and over and over.
> 
> If some of the headphones you have listened to don't give you this picture, then you have chosen the wrong ones, or bass is all you are about, and can safely use a crossover to tune everything out except the bass. If, however you have an open mind and truly DO want to hear good quality sound, then you might try others in turn. That is really the reason the people on here keep buying/selling buying/selling again headphones/IEMs. It is the quest to find the perfect sound (for their ears). If you are happy with the "bloated" sounds, then by all means stick with it, but please don't say that the community has a distorted view of this or that because it does not agree with what your ears like.



Exactly my view. What the artist intended for you to listen to... 

Some people here have told me to try the 85t to compensate for the MT’s failings. Has anyone compared the MTW2 with the 85t?

Here 85t are in the 200€ mark (discounted from 230€) and MTW2 around the 240€ mark (discounted from 300€)

Is there a MTW3 coming soon? If the mishaps were improved I’d have to up my budget and maybe go for them. 

Yesterday I had sudden signal drops with the MT, which had not happened before. It took them a few seconds and... the music came back on. About three times during a work day. They’re starting to annoy me more. I still like them but...


----------



## Typo2

Just got my KEF mu3. Was between this and the Galaxy Buds Pro and I cancelled the samsungs on the assumption these might sound better. Do I regret my choice? Not at all but wish I could a/b them.

First impressions, not a fan of the case or style. They do sit well in the ear however.

First impression of the sound...even though im limited to aac as the best codec these sound surprisngly good. They have avoided the typical v-shape and overcooked bass of a lot of TWS. Id say they are neutral throughout the range with a nudge towards warm which is pretty much how I like it.. This is with ANC on which is how Ill use them, early ANC impressions are decent. Havnt left the house but the passive isolation seems fairly strong and the ANC seems decent in addition.

There is no APP which is a big fail for me but im happy with the sound signature OOB, be nice to configure the tactile buttons which you cant at the mo.

Other missing comforts include sensor for when its in your ear or not. 

TLDR - A lot missing but early impressions they sound good. Neutral-warm. Missing aptx, missing app.


----------



## alsorkin

dj24 said:


> Fast moving thread...  Suggestions anyone?  Thanks!



* 1Mii Bluetooth 5.0 Transmitter Receiver for Home Stereo TV, HiFi Wireless Audio Adapter with Audiophile ESS DAC & AptX HD/Low Latency, Long Range, Optical RCA AUX 3.5mm Outputs/Inputs *

About $75 on Amazon. 













Price:$79.99      _FREE One-Day_  &    FREE Returns  _Coupon_


----------



## FYLegend

I had to take off the filters for my Earfun Free Pro as one side started sounding congested and veiled. There wasn't much earwax but I guess the mesh was no longer permeable.  Now the treble is brighter (almost similar but it'll do) and the bass is less boomy. Ambient sound is a tad clearer now.


----------



## AudioNoob

jabra-company-store via eBay has* Jabra Elite 85t Wireless Earbuds *(Certified Refurbished, Titanium Black) on sale for *$119.99* when you apply coupon code *PREZDAY20*. *Shipping is free*. https://www.ebay.com/itm/Jabra-Elite-85t-Titanium-Black-Certified-Refurbished/164667800671 *75t is something like $77*


----------



## Canabuc

AudioNoob said:


> jabra-company-store via eBay has* Jabra Elite 85t Wireless Earbuds *(Certified Refurbished, Titanium Black) on sale for *$119.99* when you apply coupon code *PREZDAY20*. *Shipping is free*. https://www.ebay.com/itm/Jabra-Elite-85t-Titanium-Black-Certified-Refurbished/164667800671 *75t is something like $77*


On Amazon new they are equivalent of 150$ USD here in Canada.


----------



## Ynot1

Feature request:
Lately I've been thinking, how about a button to skip ads on youtube.
Currently I can only skip ads by pulling out the phone and using the touch screen and waiting for the skip selection.
I don't know if voice  assistant can do this for me. 
Unfortunately I think Youtube and Android is cotrolled by the same people. I wonder if ios can implement Siri to skip ads.
Doing dishes and trying to skip ads at the same time requires too much work.


----------



## tinyman392

Ynot1 said:


> Feature request:
> Lately I've been thinking, how about a button to skip ads on youtube.
> Currently I can only skip ads by pulling out the phone and using the touch screen and waiting for the skip selection.
> I don't know if voice  assistant can do this for me.
> ...



There's really no way to do this unfortunately as YouTube doesn't want you doing this.  It may be possible to find a jailbreak tweak that can do this, but nothing that will run natively in either OS.


----------



## Canabuc

Ynot1 said:


> Feature request:
> Lately I've been thinking, how about a button to skip ads on youtube.
> Currently I can only skip ads by pulling out the phone and using the touch screen and waiting for the skip selection.
> I don't know if voice  assistant can do this for me.
> ...


YouTube Vanced or pay for premium and get YouTube music also


----------



## Canabuc

Well more time with seenheiser MTW2 and opinions have changed. Changed to larger tip on right and seated them a bit different and now I hear the fantastic soundstage and great tuning.

Wish they were louder though.
Have to test ANC more.

The Fiil T1PRO really impressed me. I can get them to sound 90% as good as MTW2 with great highs and soundstage too.
They also seem to be a bit better on quality than MTW2 also. Very light and comfy fit even with no wing tips secure.
Highly recommend them.


----------



## erockg

The new regime.


----------



## deuter

erockg said:


> The new regime.


Iam keen to get your opinion and differences between the two.
These are in my list to get as the Devialet Gemini is no longer sold.


----------



## chifihead

Ynot1 said:


> Feature request:
> Lately I've been thinking, how about a button to skip ads on youtube.
> Currently I can only skip ads by pulling out the phone and using the touch screen and waiting for the skip selection.
> I don't know if voice  assistant can do this for me.
> ...


The simplest (and best?) solution is just to buy YT premium. The no ads is great, the ability to download videos has its uses, and YT Music is.... there.


----------



## ForgotMyName

tinyman392 said:


> You're in an audiophile community, they tend to prefer sound with more linear bass presentation, even if it's elevated 5-10 dB, they still prefer something linear.  Some don't mind a boost in the sub-bass (< 100 Hz for example), but having a boost closer to the 200-400 Hz range generally creates this bloat that most talk about.  You don't have to have big bass to have a strong impact by the way.  There is also such a thing as too treble happy too.
> 
> Edit: I'll also add that a lot of older generation also prefer a warmer headphone to listen to (modest linear push in the bass, slight reduction in treble, or both).  I think the push of the Harman target also kind of puts that more in perspective.



Audiophile or good sound doesn't necessarily mean having no bass is all I'm saying. I've listened to headphones that considered to have "exaggerated" bass when in reality they didn't really have any sub bass. The comment remains. The taste in sound seems to differ dramatically by age.


----------



## ForgotMyName

samandhi said:


> I would argue that the people that LIKE the bloated bass are the ones that actually have a distorted view of what the artists meant the music to sound like. I am not trying to offend here, but I am in agreeance with tinyman392 in this. There is a major difference between good quality bass that has more quantity, and simply giving more quantity with poor quality. Also, most audiophiles will tell you they also don't like hot treble at all, but if there is a veil on the treble or it is reduced too much, not only does it make the tone of the instruments wrong, but you miss details in a song that you would not otherwise.
> 
> I love rap, and mix it up with rock, metal, R&B, etc... all the time. If you were to listen to rap from something like a pair of Hifiman Ananda, or Deva, etc... (just for example) you would find that you can give it a really good bass boost but it will still be very clean sounding AND you will still hear the rest of the music to go along with that wonderful impact of bass hit. I also love a good rumble in my bass, but again, if it is flabby, loose, bloated, it just doesn't sound good (unless of course the artists intended it to sound that way). It is like one note being played over and over and over.
> 
> If some of the headphones you have listened to don't give you this picture, then you have chosen the wrong ones, or bass is all you are about, and can safely use a crossover to tune everything out except the bass. If, however you have an open mind and truly DO want to hear good quality sound, then you might try others in turn. That is really the reason the people on here keep buying/selling buying/selling again headphones/IEMs. It is the quest to find the perfect sound (for their ears). If you are happy with the "bloated" sounds, then by all means stick with it, but please don't say that the community has a distorted view of this or that because it does not agree with what your ears like.


Bass is supposed to rumble and it is supposed to be felt. People who like a completely flat sound obviously have no clue what other genres are supposed to sound like. Hip hop with no impact in the background feels awkward to listen to.


----------



## ForgotMyName

tiagopinto said:


> Exactly my view. What the artist intended for you to listen to...
> 
> Some people here have told me to try the 85t to compensate for the MT’s failings. Has anyone compared the MTW2 with the 85t?
> 
> ...



Listen to any hip hop concert and see if they intended to have no sub bass.


----------



## Enn Jott (Feb 13, 2021)

ForgotMyName said:


> Bass is supposed to rumble and it is supposed to be felt. People who like a completely flat sound obviously have no clue what other genres are supposed to sound like. Hip hop with no impact in the background feels awkward to listen to.



You start to mix things up now. Headphones often appreciated by "audiophiles" more or less portray what was originally recorded/mixed/mastered. That means if there is sub-bass (on the recording) you'll hear it IF the headphone can reproduce it.

It is desirable that good headphones reproduce the whole frequency range somewhat evenly. Ideally good headphones sound great on hiphop as well as on acoustic live sets, maybe with only one vocalist and a guitar, with the guitar still sounding like a guitar (especially for someone who's playing as well). Bass heavy headphones sure sound good with hiphop or electronic music but often not so much on acoustic tracks, jazz or classical music. Once a guitar does not sound like a guitar anymore it may be just too much bass.

And lastly people within this community tend to be older because headphones are expensive (even chi-fi, if you buy many of those) and it also takes some time to listen to a lot of them. People find what they like in headphones over years. It's something that develops itself over time and ultimately some people like bassier headphones, some like more neutral headphones or v-shaped sound signatures. Saying someone has no clue is not only unkind but also short-sighted.

Edit: I guess it also depends what and how many genres one is listening to. People only listening to hiphop or techno sure have different needs. If you listen to many very different genres you'll desire headphones that handle every genre. Personally I listen to singer songwriter stuff but also shoegaze, techno and many more. That said I like headphones that work throughout my taste of music an not only for the bassier stuff.


----------



## tiagopinto

AudioNoob said:


> jabra-company-store via eBay has* Jabra Elite 85t Wireless Earbuds *(Certified Refurbished, Titanium Black) on sale for *$119.99* when you apply coupon code *PREZDAY20*. *Shipping is free*. https://www.ebay.com/itm/Jabra-Elite-85t-Titanium-Black-Certified-Refurbished/164667800671 *75t is something like $77*



I went straight away for them. They don’t send them here. But thanks.


----------



## tiagopinto

Enn Jott said:


> You start to mix things up now. Headphones often appreciated by "audiophiles" more or less portray what was originally recorded/mastered. That means if there is sub-bass (on the recording) you'll hear it IF the headphone can reproduce it.
> 
> It is desirable that good headphones reproduce the whole frequency range somewhat evenly. Ideally good headphones sound great on hiphop as well as on acoustic live sets, maybe with only one vocalist and a guitar, with the guitar still sounding like a guitar (especially for someone who's playing as well). Bass heavy headphones sure sound good with hiphop or electronic music but often not so much on acoustic tracks, jazz or classical music. Once a guitar does not sound like a guitar anymore it may be just too much bass.
> 
> ...



Thank-you for your on point reply.


----------



## tiagopinto

ForgotMyName said:


> Listen to any hip hop concert and see if they intended to have no sub bass.



Well, you can sample some of the music I listen to right here:



I trust you may find some ecletism in there...

So, when people who love music search for headphones, and they want something practical like a pair of true wireless earbuds, they want them to sound good with Radiohead and Miles Davis and Kendrick Lamar and Tame Impala and Idles and... whatever you want to throw at them.

Definitely, IMO, headphones shouldn’t be built or factory tuned for... these will be good for Bob Marley... these will be good for Daft Punk... these will be good for Billie Holiday...

A flat frequency response may seem less exciting at first, even the name - flat - but this is what should be intended, this is what the better brands try to look for (albeit keeping their “signature” in there). Linear is a better name.

Then, when you have a good, linear, trustworthy base, you can (and should be able to) customize them to “your” preference or to whatever genre of music where you might believe there’s tweaking to be done. Freedom is the key... your taste, your sound.


----------



## samandhi

tiagopinto said:


> Well, you can sample some of the music I listen to right here:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Sooooo this ^^^   This is ultimately my goal when searching for new headphones. If a company tunes a headphone to a bloated bass, and recessed mids, and veiled treble (let's say for example), it is usually done to cover up the technical issues that the drivers have, and therefore these cannot usually be tuned in a different direction (to suite your ears). In contrast a linearly tuned headphone will allow you to tune them to almost ANY way you like, because they are more likely to be able to technically handle ALL the frequencies correctly. 


ForgotMyName said:


> Bass is supposed to rumble and it is supposed to be felt. People who like a completely flat sound obviously have no clue what other genres are supposed to sound like. Hip hop with no impact in the background feels awkward to listen to.


By your statements alone, you are the one (in this case) who doesn't really have a clue. You are passing off opinion (and your personal opinion at that) as fact. You are misled by the headphone/speaker industry. By the way they tune some of the mainstream stuff, they are telling you JUST that. But, does it match what the artist intended? If you do some searching, you will see that there are very few recording artists that use headphones that have that bloated bass or veiled treble. They use studio monitors, which are tuned very linear, or flat. This is what it means when you see "how the artist intended", not what the headphone manufacturers TELL you is intended. This is a marketing ploy to get you to buy their product. You will see the terms "Fun", and "Analytical" around here. Fun are not accurate, but tend to sound good to certain types of listeners. Analytical is just that; accurate....

Who told you that bass is SUPPOSED to rumble or to be felt? In some stuff, I would agree, but I have also heard many a song that has more subtle bass (and was intended to be that way), and if you have a set of phones that have all bass, you will NOT be hearing it as was intended. I have headphones that can do both when the song calls for it. Also, rumble is not the same thing as impact at all when describing bass. I have some headphones that have no rumble at all, but have plenty of impact.

It sounds to me like your only genre is hip-hop (or at least the genres that focus on bass more than any other thing). I find it a bit offensive that you would say that people who like flat sound have no clue with other genres. To say that people have a distorted view of bass, and that they have no clue means to me that you think the world revolves around hip-hop, and there is no other genre worth listening to unless you are old. This is a biased view, and shows your ignorance (and age) about music in general. 

The definition of an audiophile is: 

*Definition of audiophile*

*: *a person who is enthusiastic about high-fidelity sound reproduction

This short definition alone implies accuracy, or the "way the artist intended". What you are arguing is there is no other genre worth listening to (or that the "type" of sound you like is the only one), and everyone else should agree with you. I respect your opinion (but only as an opinion, not as fact), let others have theirs (whether you agree or not). If you don't like the way people think on this community, find another one that is more to the line of thinking you are on.


----------



## jibberish

I got a pair of the Jabra 85t this week, and I think they're excellent.  Other TWS sets I own are Fiil T1XS and Technics EAH-AZ70W, so I don't have many others to compare to.  I do really like how the AZ70 sound, but the fit, lack of passive isolation, poor mic quality, and difficulty with the touch controls in cold weather were drawbacks. Catching up on the thread recently, I hoped the 85t would fit the bill in terms of sound and fit/finish/usability, and that's absolutely true.

Once I got the eq on the 85t dialed in, there's nothing to complain about for how they sound, only minor nitpick is that detail resolution is only average-to-good, but not great. Beyond that I'm extremely impressed with the tuning and especially the sound stage/imaging. I would be extremely pleased with the sound stage and imaging of this set in a similarly priced wired set of IEMs. Also the ability to pair with two devices at once works quite well, I can listen to music from my phone and then take a work meeting on my laptop without messing with settings/defaults.

The ANC is fantastic. The app is great, with clever features for managing favored presets for different usage scenarios. It's super comfortable, although those oval stock tips were useless to me.  I'm using the Acoustune AET07 tips, and they're fantastic for seal, comfort, and sound with the 85t. Like I said above, I'd be happy with how these sound if this was a wired IRM in the same price bracket.  But this isn't wired, it's a wireless set with great comfort, build quality, and ANC.


----------



## captblaze

jibberish said:


> I got a pair of the Jabra 85t this week, and I think they're excellent.  Other TWS sets I own are Fiil T1XS and Technics EAH-AZ70W, so I don't have many others to compare to.  I do really like how the AZ70 sound, but the fit, lack of passive isolation, poor mic quality, and difficulty with the touch controls in cold weather were drawbacks. Catching up on the thread recently, I hoped the 85t would fit the bill in terms of sound and fit/finish/usability, and that's absolutely true.
> 
> Once I got the eq on the 85t dialed in, there's nothing to complain about for how they sound, only minor nitpick is that detail resolution is only average-to-good, but not great. Beyond that I'm extremely impressed with the tuning and especially the sound stage/imaging. I would be extremely pleased with the sound stage and imaging of this set in a similarly priced wired set of IEMs. Also the ability to pair with two devices at once works quite well, I can listen to music from my phone and then take a work meeting on my laptop without messing with settings/defaults.
> 
> The ANC is fantastic. The app is great, with clever features for managing favored presets for different usage scenarios. It's super comfortable, although those oval stock tips were useless to me.  I'm using the Acoustune AET07 tips, and they're fantastic for seal, comfort, and sound with the 85t. Like I said above, I'd be happy with how these sound if this was a wired IRM in the same price bracket.  But this isn't wired, it's a wireless set with great comfort, build quality, and ANC.



Never tried Jabras, but have a set of Klipsch T5 Sport and am surprised with how much sound can be produced by its 5mm drivers. Only other TWS I own is a Master & Dynamic MW07 (gen 1) and they have 9mm drivers. I will say I am pleased with how well the T5 fits. Klipsch tips are oval shaped and come in multiple sizes including splitting medium into 3 sizes. One of the few non customs I own that feel formed to my ear canals with the included tips. I do have some interest in listening to KEF Mu3, but I have shot a big enough hole in my wallet for 2021,

Do the Jabras come with control app?


----------



## bronco1015 (Feb 14, 2021)

david8613 said:


> hey guys i have a bunch of true wireless iems from cheap ones to higher end ones. i just pulled out my anbes 359 OMG! these things still sound absolutely awesome!!!! i mean seriously these give competition to alot of my higher end buds. anyone still using theres? any new super budgets that sound this good?


The Anbes 359 are still going strong for me as well. Thought they were about to die for good because they would barely charge and wouldn't last for more than 30-45 mins. Was ready to retire them but then had the thought to reset them. After doing that 3-4 times, they are back to normal. I've heard several newer budget TWEs lately, but haven't heard noteable ones like the Fiil T1 pro, but i had the T1X last year and really liked it. but to end my rambling, the cheaper TWEs i've heard still fall short of the Anbes 359. The 359 for the $32 i payed for them are great across the board. Could bass be a bit more controled and have better texture? yes but it certainly isn't muddy sounding at all. When i first got them i always wanted just a bit more treble than they offered, but generally speaking that has improved and mids have opened up more as well. Several have posted about these things many many pages ago. The total package has earned them a steady spot in my rotation for 21 months now. the only other TWE that's been in constant use for me durring that time and for 4 months longer is the MTW1. That one took me 2 months to get behind.


----------



## Caipirina

bronco1015 said:


> The Anbes 359 are still going strong for me as well. Thought they were about to die for good because they would barely charge and wouldn't last for more than 30-45 mins. Was ready to retire them but then had the thought to reset them. After doing that 3-4 times, they are back to normal. I've heard several newer budget TWEs lately, but haven't heard noteable ones like the phiil T1 pro, but i had the T1X last year and really liked it. but to end my rambling, the cheaper TWEs i've heard still fall short of the Anbes 359. The 359 for the $32 i payed for them are great across the board. Could bass be a bit more controled and have better texture? yes but it certainly isn't muddy sounding at all. When i first got them i always wanted just a bit more treble than they offered, but generally speaking that has improved and mids have opened up more as well. Several have posted about these things many many pages ago. The total package has earned them a steady spot in my rotation for 21 months now. the only other TWE that's been in constant use for me durring that time and for 4 months longer is the MTW1. That one took me 2 months to get behind.


I think the closest to 'cheap and impressive' for me would be the Tronsmart Spunky Beats. Also not to forget, the Haylou GT1 ... 
But those Anbes will always hold a very special place in my rotation / heart. Those were my first budget chi-fi TWS I ordered all the way back in 2019 .. before the hoarding .. errr... collecting started


----------



## jibberish

captblaze said:


> Do the Jabras come with control app?



They do, yes, and it's quite nice.


----------



## AudioNoob

jibberish said:


> The ANC is fantastic. The app is great, with clever features for managing favored presets for different usage scenarios. It's super comfortable, although those oval stock tips were useless to me.  I'm using the Acoustune AET07 tips, and they're fantastic for seal, comfort, and sound with the 85t. Like I said above, I'd be happy with how these sound if this was a wired IRM in the same price bracket.  But this isn't wired, it's a wireless set with great comfort, build quality, and ANC.



They fit in the case with acoustune tips?


----------



## kolbo

jibberish said:


> I got a pair of the Jabra 85t this week, and I think they're excellent.  Other TWS sets I own are Fiil T1XS and Technics EAH-AZ70W, so I don't have many others to compare to.  I do really like how the AZ70 sound, but the fit, lack of passive isolation, poor mic quality, and difficulty with the touch controls in cold weather were drawbacks. Catching up on the thread recently, I hoped the 85t would fit the bill in terms of sound and fit/finish/usability, and that's absolutely true.
> 
> Once I got the eq on the 85t dialed in, there's nothing to complain about for how they sound, only minor nitpick is that detail resolution is only average-to-good, but not great. Beyond that I'm extremely impressed with the tuning and especially the sound stage/imaging. I would be extremely pleased with the sound stage and imaging of this set in a similarly priced wired set of IEMs. Also the ability to pair with two devices at once works quite well, I can listen to music from my phone and then take a work meeting on my laptop without messing with settings/defaults.
> 
> The ANC is fantastic. The app is great, with clever features for managing favored presets for different usage scenarios. It's super comfortable, although those oval stock tips were useless to me.  I'm using the Acoustune AET07 tips, and they're fantastic for seal, comfort, and sound with the 85t. Like I said above, I'd be happy with how these sound if this was a wired IRM in the same price bracket.  But this isn't wired, it's a wireless set with great comfort, build quality, and ANC.


Are you concerned about using tips that done have the wax guard in them?


----------



## Luke Skywalker

mbk said:


> I really love the bass impact of the L2P. It’s awesome. But the treble is just so sibilant and metallic and harsh that I can’t listen to them anymore. Even something as simple as a tambourine can be fatiguing on the L2P. I didn’t do a formal burn-in but after a couple of weeks i never saw an improvement.
> 
> I moved on to the Grado GT220 and I’m happy with them so far. No fatigue.


Hey I was thinking of getting the Grado's actually.  Pretty good? What kind of music do you listen to?


----------



## Luke Skywalker

clerkpalmer said:


> It's been a really slow period for TWS.  Nothing really new being brought to the table.  Kinda boring.  I mentioned a month ago that TWS may have peaked and I stand by my assertion.  Until we get a new breakthrough in BT, I think we are pretty close to the limit.  Not to say this is a bad thing - there are some excellent choices out there but the innovation seems to have stalled. Maybe Audeze has something in the works?


I'd love some Audeze TWS.  I go on their site on a regular basis to see if they come out with them.  Listening to a 5.6 Mbps Pink Floyd "The Wall" DSD on my LCD-2's right now and the sound is unbelievable


----------



## bronco1015

Caipirina said:


> I think the closest to 'cheap and impressive' for me would be the Tronsmart Spunky Beats. Also not to forget, the Haylou GT1 ...
> But those Anbes will always hold a very special place in my rotation / heart. Those were my first budget chi-fi TWS I ordered all the way back in 2019 .. before the hoarding .. errr... collecting started


i'll 2nd a vote for spunky Beats. I gave mine to a friend's kid because he lost the ones i got him for Christmas. But those Spunky beats had an even better fit for me and amazing sound. I'd put them above the Anbes actually when push comes to shove.


----------



## jibberish

AudioNoob said:


> They fit in the case with acoustune tips?


Yep, no problem at all


----------



## Luke Skywalker

Shadowclash10 said:


> Just got an email from Audeze about the Euclid. At first I was really hyped upon seeing that they were closed-back TWS, but then I saw the price tag ($1299) LOL. Considering the price tag, and the fact that they can be used wired (detachable MMCX cable), they seem more like high-end IEMs, not really competitors in the TWS space. But I guess it's nice to see more products from Audeze, even though I was really hoping for sub $400 TWSs from them


wow dude those look amazing.  thanks for sharing.  Looks like my JH Lola's are going to have some company


----------



## tinyman392

Luke Skywalker said:


> I'd love some Audeze TWS.  I go on their site on a regular basis to see if they come out with them.  Listening to a 5.6 Mbps Pink Floyd "The Wall" DSD on my LCD-2's right now and the sound is unbelievable



It is possible to turn their new Euclid into a TWS using either the Fiio or Shure MMCX TWS adapters.


----------



## Canabuc

AudioNoob said:


> They fit in the case with acoustune tips?


The 85t are a great all around bud. Right now they are on sale for about 150$ too.
My issues with them were the fit was a bit insecure even with largest tips for to how shallow they fit. I couldn't find after market tips that fit right. Also the wax guards are not in the buds but the tips so no protection with most aftermarket tips.

They are also very tunable but at end of day, for me, I preferred the sound of other buds more.


----------



## Canabuc

My 6 biggest wants out of my buds:

1) Comfort/fit. Face it if they hurt you won't wear them long and it will ruin enjoyment. That killed galaxy buds pro for me. My right ear begged me to stop! Ruled out the XM3 as insecure and had to push the tips too close to my brain.

Favorites for fit are the Fiil T1PRO and buds+. Sennheiser MTW2 too early to tell but fit so far is very good too. Worst are Sony and buds pro. 
JBL and AZ70W just were too insecure for exercise but were comfortable. 75t were good but had most feeling of in ear pressure. L2P after finding right tips and wings were very good too.

2) Sound. I want my sound very god for my taste. If they are comfortable but sound like garbage they won't make me want to listen. Jabra 75t fit great but Trevor was thin and harsh and bass was over powering.

My favorite sounding TWS so far:
1. MTW2
2. XM3 /JBL club pro plus tie
3. Fiil T1pro /Buds pro tie
4. L2P
5. 85t
6. AZ70W
7. Buds plus
8. 75t

3) Controls. I want to be able to control every aspect of my buds without pulling my phone out. 
XM3 & JBL make you choose between controlling volume track ANC but not all 3. So easy to fix but means I have to give up a useful function.

Best for full controls are MTW2 and 85T as they both are full control with customizability. MTW2 are best touchpads out of any. Jabra are button press which I prefer in many instances in our winters with gloves and hats. Buds plus and AZ70W also allow for full control of track volume etc. But not as customizable.

4) Features/quality. For me these include ANC, ambient mode, Qi charging, fit and finish, battery life up rating....

This is where the 85t shine. They have it all great size case, Qi charging good battery top notch ANC/ambient...

Sony is very good except the case.
Fiil T1PRO is among best with only build quality a shortcoming but has great battery Qi charging Etc.. the ANC and ambient are only ok though.

Buds pro also among the best for all of these and if I could get the right ear comfort better would likely be my top overall choice bud.

All the other buds fall in the middle.
MTW2 have great ambient good ANC top build quality case is nice but too big and no Qi.

Az70 worst case of all. No Qi. Flimsy and buds never go in properly so won't charge. Also seems to suffer battery drain issue. Noone talks about these things in reviews because you need time with them to learn these things.

JBL very good but their Qi charging didn't work well and ANC was weak.

L2P Qi charging but case is awkward to put in buds no ANC or transparency modes.

1 quick word about IP rating.
All are ipx4 except Sony with none. Buds pro with ipx7. Fiil ipx5. Buds + ipx2. 75t ip55 or 57 for active. So if you workout or use in wet conditions consider this too

5) Price
While this changes all the time, if patient and find sales only the MTW2 would cost more than 200

Fiil t1pro if you don't mind Chinese are the best value ever. Small great battery and sound fully featured and cost me 60$usd all in. If they ever get an English app/firmware these would be my top recommendation.

Jabra 85t now in sale great value at 150$

Sony now on sale great value at 150$

Technics and JBL were on sale when I bought but presently are over priced here in Canada. Technics range from USD amount of 180 to 280. JBL are going for 230. Buds pro are 200 but there is a trade in deal for about 50$off.

MTW2 currently on sale 50$off at 250.


6. Connectivity/Volume. Most buds have been fine. Some outliers however. 

75t and 85t and MTW2 are master slave which I don't care about though some do. I never have a reason to use just one ear bud. My primary use case is music and I can't be immersed with just 1 earbud.

85t and 75t are multipoint which I thought would be great but was horrible for me. First off, when connected to my galaxy note 20 ultra and my iPad at same time, when listening to audio through my ipadi would get dropouts of signal/sound every 30_60 second on the iPad. Never on the phone though. Also for multipoint audio to work you have to stop your music first before then starting in the next device. More often than not I would get audio from the iPad 1st even though I wanted audio from my phone.... In the end was more of a nuisance. Prefer the way MTW2 does it. You can quick swap via the app. Or just connect blue tooth on desired device and it will automatically disconnect from the previous device. Very easy and seamless. They also have feature to auto answer a call if you pull right bud out of the case of you want to speak on your buds and you aren't wearing them.

Problems I had were with the Sony. Frequent dropouts and poor connection. Technics also had some. Rest all seemed good.

Volume wise loudest were the L2P 85T and XM3 for me. JBL were quietest at struck settings but when equalizer became among the loudest. Very strange but they can be boosted by 10db.

AZ70W and MTW2 were about 1.5 full volume press lower than the top and 1 less than the average. Fiil and Samsung were in the middle. For example L2P and 85t comfortable listening at 65%. Most at 70to75% MTW2 at 80%

I know this post is long but figure if there are any prospective buyers,I could help them decide what matters most to them to help them down the road.

For me based on my trials and tribulations and ranking sound quality and comfort/secure fit first while still giving me the controls I need without using my phone are:

1. Fiil T1PRO
2. MTW2
3. Jabra 85t
4. Galaxy buds plus
5. JBL club pro plus
6. L2P
7. XM3
8. AZ70W
9. 75t
10. Buds pro

Caveat is that if I can find the magic tips to make the right buds pro comfortable they jump to 1or 2 spot.

Well reiterate that the 85t are best all arounders but are not best in any one category except controls. 

Feel free to ask me more detailed questions about any one of these or comment on other buds I haven't tried and how they compare.


----------



## Canabuc

Luke Skywalker said:


> Hey I was thinking of getting the Grado's actually.  Pretty good? What kind of music do you listen to?


Haven't tried the Grados myself but reading reviews i hear the sound is very good. However they have no features at that price point. No real up rating no transparency or ANC. No EQ app and bulky case.
If I was buying buds purely for sound and nothing else, the cx400bt Sennheiser apparently sound every bit as good as the MTW2, but are in same for 100$now. Heck you could but those and still have 150$left over towards a pair of ANC buds like Jabras or Sony!


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## erockg (Feb 14, 2021)

Luke Skywalker said:


> Hey I was thinking of getting the Grado's actually.  Pretty good? What kind of music do you listen to?


I was using my Grado's last night while the family was asleep.  Cranked two bands considered Stoner Rock... which is basically hard rock.  One called All Them Witches and another, King Buffalo.  Both HIGHLY recommended.  Anyway, it was euphoric.  Been comparing the Grado's to the Melomania Touch and I think the Grado's are just phenomenal for a set of buds that have zero features and/or EQ.  Everything is clean, tight and loud.  Soundstage is wide.  Zero issues so far.  They have a Qi charging case but no frills outside of that.


----------



## Canabuc

erockg said:


> I was using my Grado's last night while the family was asleep.  Cranked two bands considered Stoner Rock... with is basically hard rock.  One called All Them Witches and another, King Buffalo.  Both HIGHLY recommended.  Anyway, it was euphoric.  Been comparing the Grado's to the Melomania Touch and I think the Grado's are just phenomenal for a set of buds that have zero features and/or EQ.  Everything is clean, tight and loud.  Soundstage is wide.  Zero issues so far.  They have a Qi charging case but no frills outside of that.


Have you tried the MTW2 or cx400bt? How does sound compare


----------



## samandhi

Canabuc said:


> My 6 biggest wants out of my buds:
> 
> 1) Comfort/fit. Face it if they hurt you won't wear them long and it will ruin enjoyment. That killed galaxy buds pro for me. My right ear begged me to stop! Ruled out the XM3 as insecure and had to push the tips too close to my brain.
> 
> ...


Very nice write-up. Sounds like you have been working pretty hard trying to find your "end" result?! What type of sound do you prefer?


----------



## erockg

Canabuc said:


> Have you tried the MTW2 or cx400bt? How does sound compare


MTW2.  Which has the same sound as the cheaper CX400BT.  Grado's are way nicer sound-wise.  I've had all the Momentums and I alway felt the bass drum hit was lacking and at times muddy, even with EQ.  The Grado's are super clean.  If you can try them from a place with a good return policy, I would.  I've been pleasantly surprised.


----------



## jant71

erockg said:


> I was using my Grado's last night while the family was asleep.  Cranked two bands considered Stoner Rock... which is basically hard rock.  One called All Them Witches and another, King Buffalo.  Both HIGHLY recommended.  Anyway, it was euphoric.  Been comparing the Grado's to the Melomania Touch and I think the Grado's are just phenomenal for a set of buds that have zero features and/or EQ.  Everything is clean, tight and loud.  Soundstage is wide.  Zero issues so far.  They have a Qi charging case but no frills outside of that.



Grado is phenomenal and the Touch is ???


----------



## KPzypher

erockg said:


> I was using my Grado's last night while the family was asleep.  Cranked two bands considered Stoner Rock... which is basically hard rock.  One called All Them Witches and another, King Buffalo.  Both HIGHLY recommended.  Anyway, it was euphoric.  Been comparing the Grado's to the Melomania Touch and I think the Grado's are just phenomenal for a set of buds that have zero features and/or EQ.  Everything is clean, tight and loud.  Soundstage is wide.  Zero issues so far.  They have a Qi charging case but no frills outside of that.





Canabuc said:


> Have you tried the MTW2 or cx400bt? How does sound compare



I have both and I like both for different reasons.



Which TWS is better depends on which aspect(s) of sound you value more.  In terms of pure technicality, I believe GT220 has the edge.  But MTW2 is more tonally balanced.  For me, tonal balance and timbre is more important than things like resolution/clarity, imaging/separation, soundstage, etc., as long as those qualities do not suffer tremendously.  Never understood people looking for soundstage in BT earphones as no matter which way you dice them, they will always sound congested, especially when compared to headphones.  And when products try to 'simulate' wider soundstage, they will typically accompany sucked out FR which destroys the tonal balance.  

Like @erockg pointed out, Grado is clean, tight w/ good impact and can get "very loud."  GT220 throughout the FR sound a lot more coherent than typically 'V-shaped' TWS.  On the other hand, MTW2 has even more balanced sound and maintain dynamics well even on low volume, which is my typical setting/listening preference.  Overall, MTW2 is less fatiguing too, which is another important factor.  I would hands down gravitate towards the MTW2 for long sessions or for mindless casual listening, especially for vocal jazz, acoustic, etc.  But if I want that wow factor or listening to occasional rock, I'll put on the Grados.  In the end, it's all about tradeoffs.

If price is a factor, MTW2 is $10 cheaper than the Grados at the moment, and is better built with more complete features.

If I could only keep one set, it would have to be the MTW2s.  Well, lucky me, I get to keep both.       

*one thing to note, I wouldn't get too wrapped up in BT codecs w/ current TWS.  Higher bitrate doesn't always mean better.  AAC on apple platform will generally sound better than AptX in android IMO.  Too bad LDAC isn't available on TWS.  And implementation is important on both ends, not just on your earbuds.   Finally, Spotify sounds mediocre at best on all the TWS i've tested.  I think Tidal thru UAPP is the way to go, albeit the UI can be a little lackluster and cumbersome.


----------



## Canabuc

samandhi said:


> Very nice write-up. Sounds like you have been working pretty hard trying to find your "end" result?! What type of sound do you prefer?


That is tough question to clarify.
I still find U W M and V shaped description thrown around all the time even by so called you tube experts and they don't agree on the sound profile of a given headphone....

I like strong bass that goes low. But not so strong that the mids or vocals are impacted. I enjoy detail clarity in the upper regions where you can feel the resolution of the instrument rather than just the tone. 

I can sooner tell you what I like and don't like in the sound of a given earbud or headphone.

For instance my first overeat that I bought and returned a few years back were the Sennheiser momentum 2. Found the sound too warm and dull. Subsequently got the B&W P7W. Absolutely love them!
Are they natural flat sounding? No.
Treble is  bright compared to flat but never harsh and gives a nice sparkle and bite when called for. Bass is powerful but never get in way of mid range tones.

I also have M&D mw50 on ears. They have a warmer sound signature more rolled off highs yet I still really like how they sound especially for acoustic indy and rock.

New buds pro have amazing clarity that I love with great Bass. Feel like the upper treble range needs to be dropped a bit to sound perfect but the stock EQ presets don't quote achieve that.

JBL,Sony,Fiil all have great equalizers and so I can get them to sound  great for me.
Jabra 85t the bass is great but hurts mids a bit and the treble is a bit rolled off. As such some songs sound great and others sound a bit congested and not as resolved.

MTW2 have a really nice bass and overall sound without needing EQ. They need to get 1-2 notches louder though.

Does this make sense?


----------



## Canabuc

erockg said:


> MTW2.  Which has the same sound as the cheaper CX400BT.  Grado's are way nicer sound-wise.  I've had all the Momentums and I alway felt the bass drum hit was lacking and at times muddy, even with EQ.  The Grado's are super clean.  If you can try them from a place with a good return policy, I would.  I've been pleasantly surprised.


At this stage of I'm investing that much in an earbud I want more features. No ambient or ANC is a big fail in 2021 especially at that price point. Technology is evolving so fast that already the buds with 3040 chipset are getting better latency wat better battery life better codecs....and can be had at a fraction of the price. In 2 years every earbud will have top notch battery life of min 7 hours will have ANC ambient wireless charging multipoint connection and only difference will be the tuning.


----------



## Canabuc

KPzypher said:


> I have both and I like both for different reasons.
> 
> 
> Which TWS is better depends on which aspect(s) of sound you value more.  In terms of pure technicality, I believe GT220 has the edge.  But MTW2 is more tonally balanced.  For me, tonal balance and timbre is more important than things like resolution/clarity, imaging/separation, soundstage, etc., as long as those qualities do not suffer tremendously.  Never understood people looking for soundstage in BT earphones as no matter which way you dice them, they will always sound congested, especially when compared to headphones.  And when products try to 'simulate' wider soundstage, they will typically accompany sucked out FR which destroys the tonal balance.
> ...


Great post. It is also why I am considering returning the MTW2 and getting the cx400bt. I would be saving 150$ USD and taxes which can then be applied to the next great earbud to come out later this year but will still get that great Sennheiser sound for my late night listening when ambient and ANC modes are not required.


----------



## bladefd

Canabuc said:


> Great post. It is also why I am considering returning the MTW2 and getting the cx400bt. I would be saving 150$ USD and taxes which can then be applied to the next great earbud to come out later this year but will still get that great Sennheiser sound for my late night listening when ambient and ANC modes are not required.



I didn't find the cx400bt very comfortable though. It might have slightly different design and definitely plasticy material. I didn't get to compare it to mtw2 so can't exactly compare the 2


----------



## KPzypher

Canabuc said:


> At this stage of I'm investing that much in an earbud I want more features. No ambient or ANC is a big fail in 2021 especially at that price point. Technology is evolving so fast that already the buds with 3040 chipset are getting better latency wat better battery life better codecs....and can be had at a fraction of the price. In 2 years every earbud will have top notch battery life of min 7 hours will have ANC ambient wireless charging multipoint connection and only difference will be the tuning.



Yes technology is always evolving, but at current state, I think ANC on TWS is more of a gimmick than a useful feature.  At least on the ones i've tested, they don't do much in noise cancelling and are no where near effective as the ANC on fullsize headphones like Sony XM4s and Bose QC35s.  And latency is still very much an issue if you're into mobile gaming, which fortunately I am not.

I would rather have a set of TWS that actually sounds good than having tons of gimmicky features that only drains the batter life.


----------



## jant71

KPzypher said:


> I have both and I like both for different reasons.
> 
> 
> Which TWS is better depends on which aspect(s) of sound you value more.  In terms of pure technicality, I believe GT220 has the edge.  But MTW2 is more tonally balanced.  For me, tonal balance and timbre is more important than things like resolution/clarity, imaging/separation, soundstage, etc., as long as those qualities do not suffer tremendously.  Never understood people looking for soundstage in BT earphones as no matter which way you dice them, they will always sound congested, especially when compared to headphones.  And when products try to 'simulate' wider soundstage, they will typically accompany sucked out FR which destroys the tonal balance.
> ...



There it is again. One says phenomenal but then another it has an "edge" or edges out over the Senn so it seems way out in front only part of the time. The very loud thing is something I have been reading with the Grado. While good to have in a TWS, the perceived volume giving a better impression of sound quality effect may be at play here which is why some give the Grado higher marks. Higher volume making them seem better than they are so they are better than the Senn but not something really above and beyond??


----------



## KPzypher

jant71 said:


> There it is again. One says phenomenal but then another it has an "edge" or edges out over the Senn so it seems way out in front only part of the time. The very loud thing is something I have been reading with the Grado. While good to have in a TWS, the perceived volume giving a better impression of sound quality effect may be at play here which is why some give the Grado higher marks. Higher volume making them seem better than they are so they are better than the Senn but not something really above and beyond??



Not sure what you mean?  I said it goes 'loud' to point out its feature, not necessarily meant I listen to them that way.  Did I not say I like to listen to music in low volume?  So while perceived volume giving a better impression is definitely a factor one cannot overlook, I don't think it applies here.  Anyways, 'better' in sound is all relative.

So far, I like the Senn the best.


----------



## Canabuc

KPzypher said:


> Yes technology is always evolving, but at current state, I think ANC on TWS is more of a gimmick than a useful feature.  At least on the ones i've tested, they don't do much in noise cancelling and are no where near effective as the ANC on fullsize headphones like Sony XM4s and Bose QC35s.  And latency is still very much an issue if you're into mobile gaming, which fortunately I am not.
> 
> I would rather have a set of TWS that actually sounds good than having tons of gimmicky features that only drains the batter life.


I don't game with earbuds or on a phone. 
I agree and that is why in my looooonnnngggg post in my criteria those features were listed lower down with sound and comfort top 2.

I disagree with it being a gimmick however. Yes they can't work as effectively as over wars bit given they have better passive noise isolation they don't need to. Also I can say without a doubt they do have a real effect.

Test cases: 
Exercising I don't hear noise from elliptical fan or the heat pump outside the basement windowwith ANC on.
Noisy Bathroom fan with ANC on no music playing completely disappears.
YouTube video in den on surround sound at 85db testing noisy cafe or airplane sound are almost completely neutralized with a good ANC earbud no other sound playing. Means I could listen at a lower volume without needing to drown outside noise.
Ambient mode is a must! Wearing buds outdoors or even at home countless times I need to talk to someone and now I don't have to remove my ear buds to communicate.
If I am going to listen at home in silence where I don't need these features I can use headphones. 
Beauty of earbuds are they are compact portable and first for listening in any environment.


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## jant71 (Feb 14, 2021)

KPzypher said:


> Not sure what you mean?  I said it goes 'loud' to point out its feature, not necessarily meant I listen to them that way.  Did I not say I like to listen to music in low volume?  So while perceived volume giving a better impression is definitely a factor one cannot overlook, I don't think it applies here.  Anyways, 'better' in sound is all relative.
> 
> So far, I like the Senn the best.




I mean some people at times tend to report something louder as sounding better. It can make people report the SQ as being better when it is really not that much better. I do feel this may be at play with some who claim some big difference between the Senn(and a couple of others) and the Grado. Since as many if not more say they are pretty close with the Grado edging out at time and the Senn winning a couple of times as well. Perhaps drivability or more volume headroom over BT account for the discrepancy. We have enough comparisons to think, at least I do, that something like that is at play here as some that rated it really highly mentioned how loud they go. Hard to be so varied between close and way better than the Senn unless there QC variance with the Senn or the Grado units or fit issues or the Grado being easier to drive and the Senn making the Grado sound more dynamic and much better since it's more difficult to drive and hinders it in some cases.


----------



## KPzypher

jant71 said:


> I mean some people at times tend to report something louder as sounding better. It can make people report the SQ as being better when it is really not that much better. I do feel this may be at play with some who claim some big difference between the Senn(and a couple of others) and the Grado. Since as many if not more say they are pretty close with the Grado edging out at time and the Senn winning a couple of times as well. Perhaps drivability or more volume headroom over BT account for the discrepancy. We have enough comparisons to think, at least I do, that something like that is at play here as some that rated it really highly mentioned how loud they go. Hard to be so varied between close and way better than the Senn unless there QC variance with the Senn or the Grado units or fit issues or the Grado being easier to drive and the Senn making the Grado sound more dynamic and much better since it's more difficult to drive and hinders it in some cases.



Gotcha.  Same reason some people equate higher gain to sounding objectively 'better.'  Anyways, like I said before, its all personal preference.  There's nothing objective about my statement or anyone else' for that matter other than pointing out their features.  Only way to test them is by plugging them in your ears and testing them out yourself.  For me, out of the 6 sets i've purchased recently, MTW2 and GT220 are the only two that actually sound good to me.  One big downside of the Grado is the pronounced white noise that can get distracting on low volume and in-between passages.  I've tested this on two separate Grados and was very much apparent on both sets.  The Galaxy buds pro sound decent and would be my choice for travel use, but not on even playing field IMO.  The Technics sound too thin and uncomfortable to wear, and the Klipsch T5 II just sounded trash, and EQ couldn't fix the slow and bloated LF.  JBL Club Pro+ is the last set I'm waiting on but I don't really have high hopes for that set.

Other sets currently in the market or on imminent release that pique my interest are Noble Falcon Pro, Bowers & Wilkins PI7, and KEF Mu3, but I doubt they'll sound head and shoulders above the MTW2.  Maybe I'll hold off until next gen TWS starts to hit the market.


----------



## Canabuc

jant71 said:


> I mean some people at times tend to report something louder as sounding better. It can make people report the SQ as being better when it is really not that much better. I do feel this may be at play with some who claim some big difference between the Senn(and a couple of others) and the Grado. Since as many if not more say they are pretty close with the Grado edging out at time and the Senn winning a couple of times as well. Perhaps drivability or more volume headroom over BT account for the discrepancy. We have enough comparisons to think, at least I do, that something like that is at play here as some that rated it really highly mentioned how loud they go. Hard to be so varied between close and way better than the Senn unless there QC variance with the Senn or the Grado units or fit issues or the Grado being easier to drive and the Senn making the Grado sound more dynamic and much better since it's more difficult to drive and hinders it in some cases.


Been doing some testing. Seems the Sennheiser MTW2 can get loud they just don't seem to raise volume linearly. Up to 80% they are quieter than other buds. But at 85% they seem to get as loud as others as if the slope isn't constant for volume.


----------



## erockg

Canabuc said:


> At this stage of I'm investing that much in an earbud I want more features. No ambient or ANC is a big fail in 2021 especially at that price point. Technology is evolving so fast that already the buds with 3040 chipset are getting better latency wat better battery life better codecs....and can be had at a fraction of the price. In 2 years every earbud will have top notch battery life of min 7 hours will have ANC ambient wireless charging multipoint connection and only difference will be the tuning.


Sadly, there isn't an all in one solution out there yet.  Some seemingly have it all but then a few revealing quirks IMO.  It's all very subjective.  More in the pipeline, like the Klipsch ANC with Bragi OS and those new B&W PI5's, but who knows when we'll see them.


----------



## erockg

KPzypher said:


> Yes technology is always evolving, but at current state, I think ANC on TWS is more of a gimmick than a useful feature.  At least on the ones i've tested, they don't do much in noise cancelling and are no where near effective as the ANC on fullsize headphones like Sony XM4s and Bose QC35s.  And latency is still very much an issue if you're into mobile gaming, which fortunately I am not.
> 
> I would rather have a set of TWS that actually sounds good than having tons of gimmicky features that only drains the batter life.


I agree re: better sound.  Although, ANC on a TWS does have a place in my collection.  Usually, if I'm on a work call with my AirPods pro.  I prefer the extra silence.  That said, I do think most try to pack features in and fail or "almost" get there.  For instance, the Devialet Gemini's.  So great, but the firmware bombed.  ANC was surprisingly great.  For $259, Grado did a hell of a job and they're a company that makes phono styluses, so I have faith that they know what they're doing.  So far so good.


----------



## erockg

jant71 said:


> There it is again. One says phenomenal but then another it has an "edge" or edges out over the Senn so it seems way out in front only part of the time. The very loud thing is something I have been reading with the Grado. While good to have in a TWS, the perceived volume giving a better impression of sound quality effect may be at play here which is why some give the Grado higher marks. Higher volume making them seem better than they are so they are better than the Senn but not something really above and beyond??


It's all subjective.  You just have to hear for yourself.  I've had three pairs of MTW2 since they've come out, but I always wind up returning them or selling them.  I love ANC and Pass through, but my ears much prefer the Grado's.  I'm not giving the Grado's higher marks for volume.  For me, it's the sound.  Don't get me wrong, I do like the Sennies, but the fit and muddy bass didn't do it for me.  But what's muddy to me, might be clear as rain to another.  My old ears may not work as good as some.  Too much metal.


----------



## BigZ12

I have a pair Fiio FH3 I would love to make wireless. 
Any good BT TWS adapters out there now?


----------



## Canabuc

erockg said:


> Sadly, there isn't an all in one solution out there yet.  Some seemingly have it all but then a few revealing quirks IMO.  It's all very subjective.  More in the pipeline, like the Klipsch ANC with Bragi OS and those new B&W PI5's, but who knows when we'll see them.


I love the B&W P7W if the buds have same sound profile....take my money!


----------



## jant71

erockg said:


> It's all subjective.  You just have to hear for yourself.  I've had three pairs of MTW2 since they've come out, but I always wind up returning them or selling them.  I love ANC and Pass through, but my ears much prefer the Grado's.  I'm not giving the Grado's higher marks for volume.  For me, it's the sound.  Don't get me wrong, I do like the Sennies, but the fit and muddy bass didn't do it for me.  But what's muddy to me, might be clear as rain to another.  My old ears may not work as good as some.  Too much metal.



Yep, interested in why the impressions vary more than other TWS. Maybe kinda like getting to the bottom of that. I also know the fit varies and reports of the sound as well. Don't think i would buy to help figure it out at the price w/o ambient and when I have my Victor. Might try an ANC model if i want something new to try. Keep wanting to try the CKR70TW out for whatever reason.


----------



## jibberish

KPzypher said:


> Yes technology is always evolving, but at current state, I think ANC on TWS is more of a gimmick than a useful feature.  At least on the ones i've tested, they don't do much in noise cancelling and are no where near effective as the ANC on fullsize headphones like Sony XM4s and Bose QC35s.  And latency is still very much an issue if you're into mobile gaming, which fortunately I am not.
> 
> I would rather have a set of TWS that actually sounds good than having tons of gimmicky features that only drains the batter life.


I get what you're saying, I think that the ANC on the Technics AZ70 is pretty mediocre, I think they sound good but the extra feature set there is not very impressive.  The 85t's ANC is really good though. It's so good that I feel like it's changed the way I will evaluate new TWS purchases for sure, with ANC being a pretty major factor.


----------



## Canabuc

erockg said:


> It's all subjective.  You just have to hear for yourself.  I've had three pairs of MTW2 since they've come out, but I always wind up returning them or selling them.  I love ANC and Pass through, but my ears much prefer the Grado's.  I'm not giving the Grado's higher marks for volume.  For me, it's the sound.  Don't get me wrong, I do like the Sennies, but the fit and muddy bass didn't do it for me.  But what's muddy to me, might be clear as rain to another.  My old ears may not work as good as some.  Too much metal.


Have you tried the Fiil T1pro? Can't believe how good these sound once I EQ'd them. So good I might just hold off on a fancier pair for now until Devialet or someone else gets their s#it together.
They are spacious and the bass and treble are great. Plenty loud and the poorly rated ANC is not had once you get a good seal.


----------



## 543293

Canabuc said:


> Have you tried the Fiil T1pro? Can't believe how good these sound once I EQ'd them. So good I might just hold off on a fancier pair for now until Devialet or someone else gets their s#it together.
> They are spacious and the bass and treble are great. Plenty loud and the poorly rated ANC is not had once you get a good seal.


Can you share your in-app EQ config for the FIIL?


----------



## mbk

Luke Skywalker said:


> Hey I was thinking of getting the Grado's actually.  Pretty good? What kind of music do you listen to?



I listen to mostly rock and pop, a bit of hip-hop, and occasionally some opera and showtunes. As others have said, the Grado sound is really nice and clean and I haven’t noticed it being weak in any genres.

I’m surprised people are describing the Grado as V-shaped. I disagree with that. I associate V-shaped signature with recessed mids/vocals and that is definitely not the case on the GT220. There is a bass boost (which I like - it’s fun) but mids and highs feel very balanced to me.

The Grado doesn’t have ANC but it sits deep in the ear canal and passive isolation is excellent. If I had one nitpick, it’s that the blue “G” flashes constantly. Annoying when I’m listening to them in bed.


----------



## 3Putter

DigDub said:


> The Fiil t1 pro ranks at the top of my tws pile now for sound quality, with the buds pro close behind. T1 pro has clear and natural highs and mids. The bass hits deep and is very fluid.





faithguy19 said:


> They said they wanted to focus on sound and battery life. Originally had transparency mode but removed it for some reason.  They felt since the headphones can do mono mode it was unnecessary.  While I would enjoy those other features like anc, transparency, multipoint, etc. I am kinda glad they focused on sound.  I enjoy the sound of these more than the 75t, APP, MTW 2, 1000xm3, etc. Just ticks my boxes sound wise.  When I need ANC or transparency mode I just switch to one of those other devices.


Where can one purchase a set of these? I looked on amazon and found a search but only other models.


----------



## tinyman392

BigZ12 said:


> I have a pair Fiio FH3 I would love to make wireless.
> Any good BT TWS adapters out there now?



Fiio makes a set of TWS adapters...  Shure also makes a set that would be compatible with MMCX.


----------



## Canabuc

Lorelock said:


> Can you share your in-app EQ config for the FIIL?


----------



## clerkpalmer

KPzypher said:


> Yes technology is always evolving, but at current state, I think ANC on TWS is more of a gimmick than a useful feature.  At least on the ones i've tested, they don't do much in noise cancelling and are no where near effective as the ANC on fullsize headphones like Sony XM4s and Bose QC35s.  And latency is still very much an issue if you're into mobile gaming, which fortunately I am not.
> 
> I would rather have a set of TWS that actually sounds good than having tons of gimmicky features that only drains the batter life.


Definitely not a gimmick form me. I use my tws exercising regularly and the ANC on the Bose and Devialet absolutely kills the fan I keep running and lets me lower the volume. I could not go back to no ANC at least in my workout room.


----------



## jant71 (Feb 14, 2021)

I forgot the Audio-technica CKR70TW had both the button for play/pause, track control, volume and the touch for ANC, voice assistant, and ambient. I like the form factor so I ordered one. Was 5% off and a few points. They have both "hear through" and "ambient" as well. Interesting to see how they do and if I think ANC is something I need.


----------



## clerkpalmer

Canabuc said:


> Great post. It is also why I am considering returning the MTW2 and getting the cx400bt. I would be saving 150$ USD and taxes which can then be applied to the next great earbud to come out later this year but will still get that great Sennheiser sound for my late night listening when ambient and ANC modes are not required.


Unless fit is an issue absolutely return them. The ANC is worthless on the MTW2. The hi res mode is nice but not 150 nice.


----------



## samandhi

Canabuc said:


> That is tough question to clarify.
> I still find U W M and V shaped description thrown around all the time even by so called you tube experts and they don't agree on the sound profile of a given headphone....
> 
> I like strong bass that goes low. But not so strong that the mids or vocals are impacted. I enjoy detail clarity in the upper regions where you can feel the resolution of the instrument rather than just the tone.
> ...


It does make sense. I like similar sound signature. I like as much (good) bass as they will take without intruding on anything else. I DO have to mention I have come to like a bit mid forwards, but not at the expense of the detail retrieval up top. They have to be revealing without being sibilant (which can be tricky for some). I hardly ever like a warm treble sound on headphones. Even on my OG Momentums I EQ up the treble for clarity (which they DO take pretty well). 

I haven't heard the B&W P7, but I do own the P5, and they were alot like the Momentum 2, which your description was pretty accurate in saying "warm" (too warm for me). 

When looking for headphones (for me), I pick something that is neutral to begin with, but I actually like them on the more "fun" side of neutral, so I pretty much EQ everything to my taste. The Tinhifi P1 (for instance) are probably the best sounding IEMs I have heard, but not without a tad of EQ (boost in bass, and reduction in 2k). 

Have you heard anything from Hifiman headphones? That seems to get me closest to my desired signature, but I don't rule any others out per se'. What sorts of music do you tend to gravitate towards? I like a ton of different genres, but I would have to say I tend to come back to metal, rock, classic rock, that sort of sound. It sounds like we have similar sound desires at least. I will have to go back and see what you have tested so far and what you liked best, etc... 

I don't really care about features in TWS, except passthrough. Matter of fact, I prefer physical buttons over touch also. To me it is all about sound, fit, and connection stability (and to a lesser degree battery life).


----------



## Canabuc

3Putter said:


> Where can one purchase a set of these? I looked on amazon and found a search but only other models.


The Fiil t1pro are Chinese market only at moment. Got mine on Ali express. Took 3 weeks to come to Canada. Cost me 60$US all in.
The app is in Chinese but there are guides out there how to use it and once set you don't need app again as all the setting stick to the buds.
Volume control ,track control ambient ANC and  voice assistant all can work directly from the buds. 

Ear fun free pro are the same earbud on Amazon but English. However there is no app. The tuning is more bass less treble and can't be adjusted as with the original Fiil. Also no option to skip back a song on the buds and no option to update firmware down the road. That said they are 60$ on Amazon and often on sale for 50$


----------



## jant71 (Feb 14, 2021)

Canabuc said:


> The Fiil t1pro are Chinese market only at moment. Got mine on Ali express. Took 3 weeks to come to Canada. Cost me 60$US all in.
> The app is in Chinese but there are guides out there how to use it and once set you don't need app again as all the setting stick to the buds.
> Volume control ,track control ambient ANC and  voice assistant all can work directly from the buds.
> 
> Ear fun free pro are the same earbud on Amazon but English. However there is no app. The tuning is more bass less treble and can't be adjusted as with the original Fiil. Also no option to skip back a song on the buds and no option to update firmware down the road. That said they are 60$ on Amazon and often on sale for 50$



Well there is the remove the filter screen option that seems to bring the Earfun sound closer to the Pro. 

Some might find this interesting...

Soundpeats seems to win on a few fronts but maybe not there yet. They might just pull out in front with the next ANC model.


----------



## Canabuc (Feb 14, 2021)

clerkpalmer said:


> Unless fit is an issue absolutely return them. The ANC is worthless on the MTW2. The hi res mode is nice but not 150 nice.


I thought so too at first with the bathroom fan test. Was worse than even the Fiil. Then adjust the buds to where I felt the seal was better in my ears and boom. The noise cancelling blocked it out 100% as good as galaxy buds pro.
I think people who have complaints about ANC on MTW2 likely don't have as a good a seal in ear as they think. It's good enough even with a not perfect seal so as not to affect sound and the bass so most wouldn't notice it. 
With buds pro you can really tell when seal is poor as all the bass goes away in music. The deeper fit of MTW2 can mask that.
Problem is my right ear has trouble with most ear buds and despite going up a size from medium to large the seal on right is not perfect. Same ear gives me issues with the buds pro....


----------



## Canabuc

jant71 said:


> Well there is the remove the filter screen option that seems to bring the Earfun sound closer to the Pro.


? Fiil have the screen in place so not sure that affects the sound or tuning. I think they just set the EQ in firmware to more consumer friendly sound and gave no app which would be expensive to convert to English to make further adjustments given the low cost of the product. 
I feel the Fiil have a ton of bass as is in the stock setting ,more than any bud except  the Jabra 75and 85t. Would worry the earfun might be too bass heavy.


----------



## Canabuc

samandhi said:


> It does make sense. I like similar sound signature. I like as much (good) bass as they will take without intruding on anything else. I DO have to mention I have come to like a bit mid forwards, but not at the expense of the detail retrieval up top. They have to be revealing without being sibilant (which can be tricky for some). I hardly ever like a warm treble sound on headphones. Even on my OG Momentums I EQ up the treble for clarity (which they DO take pretty well).
> 
> I haven't heard the B&W P7, but I do own the P5, and they were alot like the Momentum 2, which your description was pretty accurate in saying "warm" (too warm for me).
> 
> ...


I heard a lower end hifiman a while back. Maybe was a planar model don't recall. Very clean sound but found the model I tried was a bit bright.
My taste in music always evolving.
At one end I like grunge and hard rock. Also love Pink Floyd Radiohead..But these days I seem to be relaxing to more vocalists like Diana Krall Norah Jones. Like Billie Eilish...
Also into some Jazz. Less so classical but like some pieces.
Work out to  hip hop.
Basically everything but country or Latin music.


----------



## Canabuc

jant71 said:


> Well there is the remove the filter screen option that seems to bring the Earfun sound closer to the Pro.
> 
> Some might find this interesting...
> 
> Soundpeats seems to win on a few fronts but maybe not there yet. They might just pull out in front with the next ANC model.



Saw that video but fit and sound went to the earfun. 2 things I love about the Fiil.


----------



## 543293

Three things the earfun free pro will never have outside of sound:

1) previous track control
2) in-ear detection for play-pause
3) any means to attain the first two, as there is no app and no firmware updates possible



P.S. also, they don't get a cool name.


----------



## 3Putter

Canabuc said:


> The Fiil t1pro are Chinese market only at moment. Got mine on Ali express. Took 3 weeks to come to Canada. Cost me 60$US all in.
> The app is in Chinese but there are guides out there how to use it and once set you don't need app again as all the setting stick to the buds.
> Volume control ,track control ambient ANC and  voice assistant all can work directly from the buds.
> 
> Ear fun free pro are the same earbud on Amazon but English. However there is no app. The tuning is more bass less treble and can't be adjusted as with the original Fiil. Also no option to skip back a song on the buds and no option to update firmware down the road. That said they are 60$ on Amazon and often on sale for 50$


Thanks for the explanation. I'm not interested in buying Chinese gear but do appreciate the competition making US companies compete. I'd love to try the APM's but they are  made in China, too. Can't get completely away from it. I mostly use Grado and Periodic Audio gear.


----------



## Canabuc

Lorelock said:


> Three things the earfun free pro will never have outside of sound:
> 
> 1) previous track control
> 2) in-ear detection for play-pause
> ...


Fiil has those the the in ear detection works not by IR so so stones if the buds are moved in ear it thinks it came out and pauses music. Works mostly fine


----------



## Canabuc

3Putter said:


> Thanks for the explanation. I'm not interested in buying Chinese gear but do appreciate the competition making US companies compete. I'd love to try the APM's but they are  made in China, too. Can't get completely away from it. I mostly use Grado and Periodic Audio gear.


Even the Grados are made in China


----------



## erockg

Canabuc said:


> Have you tried the Fiil T1pro? Can't believe how good these sound once I EQ'd them. So good I might just hold off on a fancier pair for now until Devialet or someone else gets their s#it together.
> They are spacious and the bass and treble are great. Plenty loud and the poorly rated ANC is not had once you get a good seal.


I've tried the T1XS but thought they didn't have a great build quality.  I can't find the Pro here in the US via Amazon.


----------



## Canabuc

erockg said:


> I've tried the T1XS but thought they didn't have a great build quality.  I can't find the Pro here in the US via Amazon.


Only earfun free pro which are same bud but with more limited English firmware and no app.
Fiil only Chinese version available. Best 60$ spent on buds!


----------



## erockg

Canabuc said:


> Even the Grados are made in China


Almost everything is these days... but designed elsewhere.


----------



## erockg

Canabuc said:


> Only earfun free pro which are same bud but with more limited English firmware and no app.
> Fiil only Chinese version available. Best 60$ spent on buds!


Yeah, I've gotten burned so many times with these ChiFi buds out there, I'm resigned to sticking with the higher end buds even if they cost me.  But Hell, maybe one day I'll be really surprised.  Hope so.


----------



## Canabuc

erockg said:


> Yeah, I've gotten burned so many times with these ChiFi buds out there, I'm resigned to sticking with the higher end buds even if they cost me.  But Hell, maybe one day I'll be really surprised.  Hope so.


I bought figuring was worth the gamble. Truthfully aside from having to watch some videos to figure out he app I will honestly say the sound if they can from a 250 dollar bud would not disappoint me.

They are basically up there with the best once EQ'd. Ambient and ANC are only mediocre but they are there! And not much worse ANC than buds costing 2-3 x.

If nothing else they would be great workout bud with super secure fit ipx5 and plenty loud.


----------



## hifi80sman (Feb 15, 2021)

Just in case anyone is interested:


----------



## deuter

The Devialet Gemini will possibly be another few months.
Taking this into perspective what would you recommend to someone who’s looking to upgrade the sound from Sennheiser Momentum 1 True Wireless.


----------



## ImMcLovin

BigZ12 said:


> I have a pair Fiio FH3 I would love to make wireless.
> Any good BT TWS adapters out there now?



FiiO UTWS3


----------



## 3Putter (Feb 15, 2021)

Canabuc said:


> Even the Grados are made in China


They are? I can't find anything to verify that claim and by you saying this you're saying they're not being honest on their website.


----------



## DjBobby (Feb 15, 2021)

3Putter said:


> They are? I can't find anything to verify that claim and by you saying this you're saying they're not being honest on their website.


It is written on the bottom of the case.
https://theaudiophilecafe.com/2020/10/23/grado-gt220-true-wireless-iem/#jp-carousel-1061


----------



## jant71

3Putter said:


> They are? I can't find anything to verify that claim and by you saying this you're saying they're not being honest on their website.



Don't see anything on the website about where the TWS is made. The headphones are a different story. But you had to know their TWS was gonna be made in China. The statement about hand built in Brooklyn does not apply to earphones only headphones.


Deal??




Used T3 Pro for $6.49 with FEB50 code. About $7 with the tax. Never heard them myself.


----------



## Canabuc

3Putter said:


> They are? I can't find anything to verify that claim and by you saying this you're saying they're not being honest on their website.


They go out of their way to hide the fact. https://www.soundstagesolo.com/inde...-gt220-true-wireless-earphones?comment_id=624

Does mention it in their review.


----------



## mbk

Yes, Grados are definitely made in China, not Brooklyn.


----------



## Canabuc

mbk said:


> Yes, Grados are definitely made in China, not Brooklyn.


I only being that point to as some people are biased against Chinese products. But Apple, Grado and most American brands still manufacture over there.


----------



## mbk

Canabuc said:


> They go out of their way to hide the fact. https://www.soundstagesolo.com/inde...-gt220-true-wireless-earphones?comment_id=624
> 
> Does mention it in their review.



This review is an odd outlier. Almost all the other GT220 reviews note that the bass is actually pretty powerful on the GT220. This is my own experience as well. Either that reviewer didn’t have a good seal or they let the word “Grado” on the box color their impressions.


----------



## Canabuc

mbk said:


> This review is an odd outlier. Almost all the other GT220 reviews note that the bass is actually pretty powerful on the GT220. This is my own experience as well. Either that reviewer didn’t have a good seal or they let the word “Grado” on the box color their impressions.


I haven't heard the Grado buds. And at 260$with no features I won't.
For 100$the cx400bt are available. Heck you can get those and the XM3 or 85t right now for the price of the Grado.


----------



## mbk

Canabuc said:


> I haven't heard the Grado buds. And at 260$with no features I won't.
> For 100$the cx400bt are available. Heck you can get those and the XM3 or 85t right now for the price of the Grado.



Nobody is going to argue with you that the Grados are a good deal. But $260 is still cheap in the audiophile world. Clearly the Grados are not for you.


----------



## Tommy C

mbk said:


> Nobody is going to argue with you that the Grados are a good deal. But $260 is still cheap in the audiophile world. Clearly the Grados are not for you.


$260 is reasonable for a product that is wired and can last for quite some time. $260 for a product which is basically disposable after 2 years most likely due to batteries losing ability to hold charge is not priced right and they will struggle moving them with high price tag, lack of features even with the Grado branding.


----------



## HerrXRDS

Which TWS is closest to something like BLON 03?


----------



## mbk

Tommy C said:


> $260 is reasonable for a product that is wired and can last for quite some time. $260 for a product which is basically disposable after 2 years most likely due to batteries losing ability to hold charge is not priced right and they will struggle moving them with high price tag, lack of features even with the Grado branding.



Yeah fair points. No argument here. I’m not particularly price sensitive, the reviews are good, and I’ve always like Grado so that led me to take the plunge.


----------



## Canabuc (Feb 15, 2021)

mbk said:


> Nobody is going to argue with you that the Grados are a good deal. But $260 is still cheap in the audiophile world. Clearly the Grados are not for you.


Well people say the cx400bt sound is there with MTW2 and suddenly audiophile grade. Sony's are reportedly among top tws for sound.... Combined they cost same as Grado. That is my only point. Except with those you get app. Equalizer and on one top tier ANC and ambient.
As said above these bugs usually have life of 2 to 3 years before batteries and technology surpass them. Though I hear Sony batteries can be replaced.
Another argument against paying so much. A headphone or weirded item will last for ever.


----------



## deuter

mbk said:


> Yeah fair points. No argument here. I’m not particularly price sensitive, the reviews are good, and I’ve always like Grado so that led me to take the plunge.


The question is whether they are better sounding to the Sennheiser Momentum’s


----------



## clerkpalmer

mbk said:


> Yeah fair points. No argument here. I’m not particularly price sensitive, the reviews are good, and I’ve always like Grado so that led me to take the plunge.


I think these higher end companies will struggle moving units at their asking prices. In particular, Grado, Noble and Devialet have priced their tws sky high. They most be focusing on their fan base because at the asking prices and due to a lack of features, these are niche items. The Devialet may have the best chance of breaking through because it offers ANC and a consumer based sound profile. The average consumer isn’t buying the Grado or the Noble at their current asking prices and my guess is Grado and Noble know this and don’t care. They must be cheap enough to produce that small sales volumes are worth it to them and their respective fan bases.


----------



## erockg

deuter said:


> The Devialet Gemini will possibly be another few months.
> Taking this into perspective what would you recommend to someone who’s looking to upgrade the sound from Sennheiser Momentum 1 True Wireless.


If you need the features, get the MTW2.  You may not be h


mbk said:


> Yeah fair points. No argument here. I’m not particularly price sensitive, the reviews are good, and I’ve always like Grado so that led me to take the plunge.


I've been using the Grado since the day I got them.  I love them.  More than the Melomania Touch so far (still have to go on a tear with them).  I really really dig them.  Worth $259?  To me, yes, because I'm happy with the sound.  If folks have the money to spend, get what you want, not what you want to pay.  That's just my opinion.  My buds are a revolving door.  I get what I want when I want them because I love the tech.  I keep trying to force myself to use over ears or wired and I keep going back to my TWS.  I'm a junkie, what can I say


----------



## erockg

hifi80sman said:


> Just in case anyone is interested:


Didn't these get a bad rap when they came out?  I get that the price is really tempting.  I put them in my car twice then deleted after reading reviews.  JRR had a lot to say about them.  Any issues anyone?


----------



## clerkpalmer

deuter said:


> The question is whether they are better sounding to the Sennheiser Momentum’s


Probably comes down to personal preferences.


----------



## clerkpalmer

erockg said:


> Didn't these get a bad rap when they came out?  I get that the price is really tempting.  I put them in my car twice then deleted after reading reviews.  JRR had a lot to say about them.  Any issues anyone?


They sound pretty good. Fit is iffy but for 23 why not.


----------



## Canabuc

clerkpalmer said:


> They sound pretty good. Fit is iffy but for 23 why not.


Might be worth it just for the tip selection


----------



## erockg

Canabuc said:


> Might be worth it just for the tip selection


Ha ha! I thought the same thing.


----------



## SemiAudiophile

KPzypher said:


> I have both and I like both for different reasons.
> 
> 
> Which TWS is better depends on which aspect(s) of sound you value more.  In terms of pure technicality, I believe GT220 has the edge.  But MTW2 is more tonally balanced.  For me, tonal balance and timbre is more important than things like resolution/clarity, imaging/separation, soundstage, etc., as long as those qualities do not suffer tremendously.  Never understood people looking for soundstage in BT earphones as no matter which way you dice them, they will always sound congested, especially when compared to headphones.  And when products try to 'simulate' wider soundstage, they will typically accompany sucked out FR which destroys the tonal balance.
> ...



I agree, the Senn's are great when I just want to sit back, relax and enjoy the music (good detail at low volume). The Grado's are great when I want a more engaged and lively sound. I don't pay much attention to the BT codecs either, as it sounds fine as is. It can only get better when they implement higher bitrate codec though. 

I've been using Tidal HiFi and it's been great. They had a promotional period at the beginning of the year for 4 months at $4. I was thinking about getting the UAPP, but wasn't sure if it was worth it? I assume its suppose to do an additional layer of decoding the MQA when you listen through Tidal?


----------



## SemiAudiophile

mbk said:


> The Grado doesn’t have ANC but it sits deep in the ear canal and passive isolation is excellent. If I had one nitpick, it’s that the blue “G” flashes constantly. Annoying when I’m listening to them in bed.



Yep, the passive noise isolation is good enough for me. I find the blue and red flashing lights on the Grado to be tacky and wished they kept it to just a white light without the flashing every 20 seconds. That and the case feels a little cheap for a close to $300 earbud. If they covered it in leather or something would've been a nice touch.


----------



## clerkpalmer

SemiAudiophile said:


> I agree, the Senn's are great when I just want to sit back, relax and enjoy the music (good detail at low volume). The Grado's are great when I want a more engaged and lively sound. I don't pay much attention to the BT codecs either, as it sounds fine as is. It can only get better when they implement higher bitrate codec though.
> 
> I've been using Tidal HiFi and it's been great. They had a promotional period at the beginning of the year for 4 months at $4. I was thinking about getting the UAPP, but wasn't sure if it was worth it? I assume its suppose to do an additional layer of decoding the MQA when you listen through Tidal?


UAPP has a special Bluetooth mode but your mileage may vary. It also offers a full PEQ through toneboosters which is probably the most valuable part of it at least for wireless use.


----------



## Tommy C

Amazon has some great deals on some Jabra models:
65t for $78 on the Titanium Black 
75t for $129 on the Titanium Black and Gold Beige 
Both are pretty safe bets and the Jabra app is one of the best.


----------



## C_Lindbergh

Just ordered the Sennheiser CX400 from Amazon for 99 EUR... It's a really solid price imo, but god damn I wish these had a transparency mode. I won't really miss the other premium features that the MTW2 have.


----------



## tinyman392

C_Lindbergh said:


> Just ordered the Sennheiser CX400 from Amazon for 99 EUR... It's a really solid price imo, but god damn I wish these had a transparency mode. I won't really miss the other premium features that the MTW2 have.



Sad truth is, you really can't have transparency mode without ANC as they'd work off nearly the same tech, I'd argue that the programming/hardware for the tech would be very similar too.


----------



## C_Lindbergh (Feb 15, 2021)

tinyman392 said:


> Sad truth is, you really can't have transparency mode without ANC as they'd work off nearly the same tech, I'd argue that the programming/hardware for the tech would be very similar too.



There are a few earbuds with ambient mode and no ANC, the Melomania touch comes to mind.

I'll deffo miss the ambient mode much more than ANC from the MTW2.

But for 99 EUR I doubt anything in the price range comes close in terms of SQ. Since they should sound the same as the MTW2.

I just don't wanna spend much more money given the fact that we should see earbuds with next gen Bluetooth later in the year/early next year.


----------



## 3Putter

DjBobby said:


> It is written on the bottom of the case.
> https://theaudiophilecafe.com/2020/10/23/grado-gt220-true-wireless-iem/#jp-carousel-1061


Yeehaw, you got me! Bummer to hear they're Chifi rebrands.


----------



## mbk

SemiAudiophile said:


> I agree, the Senn's are great when I just want to sit back, relax and enjoy the music (good detail at low volume). The Grado's are great when I want a more engaged and lively sound. I don't pay much attention to the BT codecs either, as it sounds fine as is. It can only get better when they implement higher bitrate codec though.
> 
> I've been using Tidal HiFi and it's been great. They had a promotional period at the beginning of the year for 4 months at $4. I was thinking about getting the UAPP, but wasn't sure if it was worth it? I assume its suppose to do an additional layer of decoding the MQA when you listen through Tidal?



I tried that deal with Tidal HiFi but I'd be lying if I said I could accurately tell the difference between Tidal and Apple Music. Tried wireless and wired headphones... didn't seem to make a difference. Maybe I'm just old.


----------



## 3Putter

mbk said:


> I tried that deal with Tidal HiFi but I'd be lying if I said I could accurately tell the difference between Tidal and Apple Music. Tried wireless and wired headphones... didn't seem to make a difference. Maybe I'm just old.


I'm jealous. With some headphones the differences are marginal. On others, night and day. I also stream through BluOS to my NAD Integrated Amp in my home 2-channel system and Tidal HiFi makes a world of difference compared to Apple Music. I dig how everybody can find what they want for content. It's all out there! I don't know why people are even buying albums or CD's. I buy an occasional album but I listen to my IEM's mostly.


----------



## Jitu13

Anyone here tried t1xs or t1pro for long time? How does it hold up after some months of use? What about comparison with other tws under 100$ (especially senn)?


----------



## Canabuc

tinyman392 said:


> Sad truth is, you really can't have transparency mode without ANC as they'd work off nearly the same tech, I'd argue that the programming/hardware for the tech would be very similar too.


Not true galaxy buds plus
Jabra 65t and then 75t did before they added ANC to 75t. You just use the mics from the calls to do it.


----------



## Canabuc

Jitu13 said:


> Anyone here tried t1xs or t1pro for long time? How does it hold up after some months of use? What about comparison with other tws under 100$ (especially senn)?


Only had em a week so far and love the sound and fit.(T1Pro)


----------



## Linus Jian

I keep hearing good things about galaxy buds pro but after listening to them with my s21u for 2 days I gotta say the sound quality is not very impressive... A/B ed with N6 pro and clarity wise the difference is night and day.

Tried xm3, mtw 2, also got crushed by n6pro. I'm thinking if the bose gonna do better...


----------



## jant71

Not sure how good but may be worth a look at the right price(currently $119.99 on Amazon)... Monster Clarity 700dB
QCC3020, 5.0 , SBC/AAC/aptX, IPX5, 6.5 hours per and 100 hours with the case.


----------



## hifi80sman

erockg said:


> Didn't these get a bad rap when they came out?  I get that the price is really tempting.  I put them in my car twice then deleted after reading reviews.  JRR had a lot to say about them.  Any issues anyone?


I originally purchased them when they were $150+ and enjoyed mostly everything about them except for the fit (at the gym) and some mixed feedback as it relates to phone calls.  That being said, I enjoyed the sound, just the quirks at that price point turned me off.  For $20 bucks or so?  I'll take them for the sound.  They're V-shaped, but not to the extent of Monster earbuds (love the bass, but hate the shrill treble).  These are basically a little tamer version of Monster.  I think they sound great, but I know there are others that aren't a fan of the signature. 

The funny thing is, I'm actually able to get a secure fit using the M tips that come on it out of the box.  Who knows, maybe calls will work better with the new iPhone 12 Pro!


----------



## hifi80sman

Linus Jian said:


> I keep hearing good things about galaxy buds pro but after listening to them with my s21u for 2 days I gotta say the sound quality is not very impressive... A/B ed with N6 pro and clarity wise the difference is night and day.
> 
> Tried xm3, mtw 2, also got crushed by n6pro. I'm thinking if the bose gonna do better...


I returned my GB Pros for the same reason.  They don't sound bad by any means, but they definitely sound "regular".  Also, with audio off and ANC on, a whooshing sound began to occur in the right earbud.


----------



## tinyman392

jant71 said:


> Not sure how good but may be worth a look at the right price(currently $119.99 on Amazon)... Monster Clarity 700dB
> QCC3020, 5.0 , SBC/AAC/aptX, IPX5, 6.5 hours per and 100 hours with the case.



I’ve always had mixed experiences with Monster headphones.  Their earbuds tended to be very nice and well designed, but their cabling kept a lot to be wanted.  With TWS I guess that latter issue is kind of moot.  Their sound was always slightly overpriced.  Not nearly as bad as Beats, but still a little over.  Most of what I’ve received from them did sound good though.


----------



## erockg

erockg said:


> If you need the features, get the MTW2.  You may not be h
> 
> I've been using the Grado since the day I got them.  I love them.  More than the Melomania Touch so far (still have to go on a tear with them).  I really really dig them.  Worth $259?  To me, yes, because I'm happy with the sound.  If folks have the money to spend, get what you want, not what you want to pay.  That's just my opinion.  My buds are a revolving door.  I get what I want when I want them because I love the tech.  I keep trying to force myself to use over ears or wired and I keep going back to my TWS.  I'm a junkie, what can I say


I’ve had the MTW 1& 2.  I prefer the sound of my Grados.


----------



## erockg

hifi80sman said:


> I originally purchased them when they were $150+ and enjoyed mostly everything about them except for the fit (at the gym) and some mixed feedback as it relates to phone calls.  That being said, I enjoyed the sound, just the quirks at that price point turned me off.  For $20 bucks or so?  I'll take them for the sound.  They're V-shaped, but not to the extent of Monster earbuds (love the bass, but hate the shrill treble).  These are basically a little tamer version of Monster.  I think they sound great, but I know there are others that aren't a fan of the signature.
> 
> The funny thing is, I'm actually able to get a secure fit using the M tips that come on it out of the box.  Who knows, maybe calls will work better with the new iPhone 12 Pro!


I grabbed them and added the extended warranty off Amazon for an extra $2.99 🤘


----------



## erockg

tinyman392 said:


> I’ve always had mixed experiences with Monster headphones.  Their earbuds tended to be very nice and well designed, but their cabling kept a lot to be wanted.  With TWS I guess that latter issue is kind of moot.  Their sound was always slightly overpriced.  Not nearly as bad as Beats, but still a little over.  Most of what I’ve received from them did sound good though.


I’d be curious to know if Monster is even really Monster anymore or if a Chinese company just bought the naming rights.


----------



## Jitu13

Canabuc said:


> Only had em a week so far and love the sound and fit.(T1Pro)


I am looking forward to your feedback after a month. I had a mpow, which started dropping connection right at the edge of 1 month. Good thing they were from Amazon, I returned them! Turns out many has the same issue after a month, talk about ticking time bomb.
Btw, even though you ranked T1pro 3rd in your sound ranking, can you compare them a bit more? You have a nice collection, I would definitely love a detailed sound analysis between them. Like how is the separation, clarity, tonality etc.


----------



## turbobb

Welp, if anyone was ever curious what the insides of a TWS looks like (in particular the Mavin Air XR), here you go:





Was the victim of an accident, the case has some small dents but still seems functional, PM me if you want them (free).


----------



## 543293 (Feb 16, 2021)

Jitu13 said:


> I am looking forward to your feedback after a month. I had a mpow, which started dropping connection right at the edge of 1 month. Good thing they were from Amazon, I returned them! Turns out many has the same issue after a month, talk about ticking time bomb.
> Btw, even though you ranked T1pro 3rd in your sound ranking, can you compare them a bit more? You have a nice collection, I would definitely love a detailed sound analysis between them. Like how is the separation, clarity, tonality etc.


Allow me to pitch in. I've owned the T1 Pros for several months now and they do their job of delivering. Ergonomics, feature set, sound presentation, etc. all of them for a reasonable price.

Vocal precision and detail retrieval are the FIILs trademark. The lows are well-defined and are handled nicely but it takes the back seat in the mix, ultimately giving the mids and highs a chance to shine. If you need to tweak the sound to your liking, then the app gives you a choice of 15 presets and a custom graphic EQ.

Overall a complete package with great versatility.


----------



## Canabuc

Jitu13 said:


> I am looking forward to your feedback after a month. I had a mpow, which started dropping connection right at the edge of 1 month. Good thing they were from Amazon, I returned them! Turns out many has the same issue after a month, talk about ticking time bomb.
> Btw, even though you ranked T1pro 3rd in your sound ranking, can you compare them a bit more? You have a nice collection, I would definitely love a detailed sound analysis between them. Like how is the separation, clarity, tonality etc.


Well I have them ranked 3rd but the difference in the 3 is marginal and for certain genres I like them better than the ones ahead.

My opinions are not on stock sound as they have very adjustable EQ. They have great bass. It goes deep and is powerful but doesn't feel bloated like 75t. The highs are a little brighter than MTW2 but not fatiguing and very good detail.

Mids are good nothing stands out except that they don't get cluttered or lost/masked by the bass.They are not too forward or shouty that is for sure but are not as recessed as some other v shaped buds.

Soundstage is quite good. MTW2 are best I have heard and these are close behind. Some reviewer referenced thriller and another song for soundstage and found these and Sennheiser were neck and neck.

Volume is very good not quite at L2P or 85t but better than MTW2.
I don't listen to these past 80% and they are plenty loud. Might distort a tiny bit at highest volume though.

Battery life and connection and fit are great.

Weaknesses:

Touch controls do everything but you can't customize what does what. You have to settle for how they are set. And that means false presses as these unlike the MTW2 are so small there isn't really side surface to touch to I sent remove or adjust them.

ANC is average. XM3 and Jabra blow these away Samsung's do to with a good seal. Sennheiser a in brief testing weren't much better.
Ambient mode isn't strong enough and adds only a hint of volume over not being on.
Charging case is small Qi enabled with 3 recharges so great but the lid closes too easily and not always easiest getting the buds out.

Don't look as premium as some of the expensive ones but build seems fine.

Honestly these should be higher in my ranking for sound. 
And as a complete package they are up there. Only Jabra 85t has everything this does though better controls and ambient but with worse sound and fit.


----------



## Jitu13

Lorelock said:


> Allow me to pitch in. I've owned the T1 Pros for several months now and they do their job of delivering. Ergonomics, feature set, sound presentation, etc. all of them for a reasonable price.
> 
> Vocal precision and detail retrieval are the FIILs trademark. The lows are well-defined and are handled nicely but it takes the back seat in the mix, ultimately giving the mids and highs a chance to shine. If you need to tweak the sound to your liking, then the app gives you a choice of 15 presets and a custom graphic EQ.
> 
> Overall a complete package with great versatility.





Canabuc said:


> Well I have them ranked 3rd but the difference in the 3 is marginal and for certain genres I like them better than the ones ahead.
> 
> My opinions are not on stock sound as they have very adjustable EQ. They have great bass. It goes deep and is powerful but doesn't feel bloated like 75t. The highs are a little brighter than MTW2 but not fatiguing and very good detail.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the feedback. They are on my buying list then.


----------



## Caipirina

tinyman392 said:


> Sad truth is, you really can't have transparency mode without ANC as they'd work off nearly the same tech, I'd argue that the programming/hardware for the tech would be very similar too.



The Jabra Elite Sport from 2017 had HearThrough without ANC ...and it wasn't half bad.


----------



## Caipirina

Linus Jian said:


> I keep hearing good things about galaxy buds pro but after listening to them with my s21u for 2 days I gotta say the sound quality is not very impressive... A/B ed with N6 pro and clarity wise the difference is night and day.
> 
> Tried xm3, mtw 2, also got crushed by n6pro. I'm thinking if the bose gonna do better...


Thanks for sharing .. I keep my eyes peeled on impressions of those as they are possibly one of the very few new buds I could get here locally. But not sure yet if I want to pay that much for another pair of Samsungs while I am actually quite happy with the Buds Live


----------



## DigDub

Linus Jian said:


> I keep hearing good things about galaxy buds pro but after listening to them with my s21u for 2 days I gotta say the sound quality is not very impressive... A/B ed with N6 pro and clarity wise the difference is night and day.
> 
> Tried xm3, mtw 2, also got crushed by n6pro. I'm thinking if the bose gonna do better...


The closest tws I've heard that compares with the n6pro is the original galaxy buds with spinfit 360 tips.


----------



## chinmie

DigDub said:


> The closest tws I've heard that compares with the n6pro is the original galaxy buds with spinfit 360 tips.



in what sound preset? I'm still rockin' the OG Gbuds in my rotation, still loving the tuning of them.. might try your suggestion with the 360 tips tonight.


----------



## bronco1015

Canabuc said:


> I thought so too at first with the bathroom fan test. Was worse than even the Fiil. Then adjust the buds to where I felt the seal was better in my ears and boom. The noise cancelling blocked it out 100% as good as galaxy buds pro.
> I think people who have complaints about ANC on MTW2 likely don't have as a good a seal in ear as they think. It's good enough even with a not perfect seal so as not to affect sound and the bass so most wouldn't notice it.
> With buds pro you can really tell when seal is poor as all the bass goes away in music. The deeper fit of MTW2 can mask that.
> Problem is my right ear has trouble with most ear buds and despite going up a size from medium to large the seal on right is not perfect. Same ear gives me issues with the buds pro....


Nice to see someone else mention that the ANC on MTW2 is not as bad as it's sometimes portrayed.


----------



## DigDub

chinmie said:


> in what sound preset? I'm still rockin' the OG Gbuds in my rotation, still loving the tuning of them.. might try your suggestion with the 360 tips tonight.


In the dynamic sound preset. The spinfit 360 reduces the bass and improves clarity, which makes it sounds 90% similar to the n6pro.


----------



## Leeco

DigDub said:


> The closest tws I've heard that compares with the n6pro is the original galaxy buds with spinfit 360 tips.


The beauty is in the eyes of a beholder. Or in our case: everyone hears differently. I bought N6pro as a recommendation from you guys here, but boy, was it a huge pile of *@&#. I think mine must have been DOA. No bass and weird tonality. I got at least some Spinfits 360 out of the deal... 

What I've learned is that EVERYONE hears differently. Crinacle put Sony XM3s on the same level as Buds Plus...  XM3s are at least a level higher (or even two) IMO.


----------



## Canabuc

bronco1015 said:


> Nice to see someone else mention that the ANC on MTW2 is not as bad as it's sometimes portrayed.


It is finicky though. More dependent on a good ear seal than say Jabra. Samsung also very dependent.

Think comply tips would make all the difference as for me the MTW2 fit seems to vary. Sometimes tighter and then it is better sometimes a bit looser.


----------



## Thesonofkrypton

Leeco said:


> The beauty is in the eyes of a beholder. Or in our case: everyone hears differently. I bought N6pro as a recommendation from you guys here, but boy, was it a huge pile of *@&#. I think mine must have been DOA. No bass and weird tonality. I got at least some Spinfits 360 out of the deal...
> 
> What I've learned is that EVERYONE hears differently. Crinacle put Sony XM3s on the same level as Buds Plus...  XM3s are at least a level higher (or even two) IMO.



That's exactly why I personally always take all these earphones/headphones and gear reviews with a large pinch of salt, as everyone hearing/musical taste and expectations are different.  Only your own experiences will really tell you if something is right for you, which is why this hobby is so expensive lol


----------



## clerkpalmer

bronco1015 said:


> Nice to see someone else mention that the ANC on MTW2 is not as bad as it's sometimes portrayed.


something is up then.  There are reports all over the place of terrible ANC on the MTW2 (reddit has several threads on the topic).  Either this is user error, ANC is terrible or there are a lot of these in the wild with faulty hardware.  I did some digging and ultimately concluded the ANC was just weak and it was not hardware related.  I attempted to contact Sennheiser about it but their customer service leaves a lot to be desired.  Everything is done via an email portal.  

Perhaps it is a fitment issue - IDK but it is strange that some report excellent ANC and others report virtually no ANC.  With mine I could hear the ANC "engage" but it just didn't do anything.  My test was against an exercise fan so maybe the particular hum of my fan wasn't in the sweet spot but with my Bose and Gemini, the fan immediately gets killed.


----------



## Enn Jott (Feb 16, 2021)

Just for fun I ordered the Galaxy Buds Pro because I liked the idea behind the driver placement. Arrived pretty quick, you know where I ordered 

Initial impression: Oh boi ... trebly, out of the box (case). Then threw my fav. sibilance check track on them ... ouch. Tinkered with the eq presets (why, oh why no graphic eq samsung?) and found the "clear" preset the only one that works to me, giving me some of the missing lower mids while taming the highs a bit. Therefore crinacles measurements are audible...





The tip sizes are weird. I'd call them small (and short), small (long) and medium (long). I'd use bigger ones but as these are proprietary I do not have any, to get the seal that would feel sealed. Touch seems a bit to sensitive.

The general feel is okay but nothing special. I do like the case. Given I "only" have a Pixel 5 I can't use the best codec unlike samsung phones. Knew it, still quite a bummer.

I'll give them some time to see if they are growing on me but I don't think they will. The only tws I can compare them to atm are the airpods pro (after sending the melomania touch back bc of mic issues) and as of now i like them better. We'll see ...


----------



## KPzypher

clerkpalmer said:


> something is up then.  There are reports all over the place of terrible ANC on the MTW2 (reddit has several threads on the topic).  Either this is user error, ANC is terrible or there are a lot of these in the wild with faulty hardware.  I did some digging and ultimately concluded the ANC was just weak and it was not hardware related.  I attempted to contact Sennheiser about it but their customer service leaves a lot to be desired.  Everything is done via an email portal.
> 
> Perhaps it is a fitment issue - IDK but it is strange that some report excellent ANC and others report virtually no ANC.  With mine I could hear the ANC "engage" but it just didn't do anything.  My test was against an exercise fan so maybe the particular hum of my fan wasn't in the sweet spot but with my Bose and Gemini, the fan immediately gets killed.



ANC on MTW2 is terrible for me.  It does absolutely nothing to block out my bathroom fan noise.  When I switch ANC on, I could hear it engage, but does little to 'cancel' external noise, at least not on any meaningful level.  I wouldn't attribute the polarity to user error.  It's as simple as plugging them in your ears and two taps to engage (or whatever you have it set to).  One should definitely know if they don't have a proper seal or have fitment issues if you you've been using IEMs long enough. It's no rocket science.  I've tried 4 different ANCs on higher-end TWS, and they all suck, albeit they weren't Sony/Bose.  It's night and day difference between the ANC on TWS's i've tried and my Sony WH-1000XM4.  Hence I mentioned in my earlier post it's more a gimmick than anything else, at least for me.  If solid ANC is your primary objective, I would stick to fullsize cans like WH-1000XM4, NC700, etc.  

YMMV.


----------



## clerkpalmer

KPzypher said:


> ANC on MTW2 is terrible for me.  It does absolutely nothing to block out my bathroom fan noise.  When I switch ANC on, I could hear it engage, but does little to 'cancel' external noise, at least not on any meaningful level.  I wouldn't attribute the polarity to user error.  It's as simple as plugging them in your ears and two taps to engage (or whatever you have it set to).  One should definitely know if they don't have a proper seal or have fitment issues if you you've been using IEMs long enough. It's no rocket science.  I've tried 4 different ANCs on higher-end TWS, and they all suck, albeit they weren't Sony/Bose.  It's night and day difference between the ANC on TWS's i've tried and my Sony WH-1000XM4.  Hence I mentioned in my earlier post it's more a gimmick than anything else, at least for me.  If solid ANC is your primary objective, I would stick to fullsize cans like WH-1000XM4, NC700, etc.
> 
> YMMV.


My experience precisely.


----------



## cpugh9

Hi guys,

I am looking for a pair of true wireless "IEMs". The problem is that I have an ear condition that makes my ears itchy and therefore I have to put ear liquid in to moisturize them. Thus, regular IEMs tend to fall out of my ear. I need something with support either in the outer ear or around the ear.  Can anyone suggest truewireless IEMs that have something like this? I need it to be really stable in my ear. Thank you in advance for your help!


----------



## tinyman392

cpugh9 said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> I am looking for a pair of true wireless "IEMs". The problem is that I have an ear condition that makes my ears itchy and therefore I have to put ear liquid in to moisturize them. Thus, regular IEMs tend to fall out of my ear. I need something with support either in the outer ear or around the ear.  Can anyone suggest truewireless IEMs that have something like this? I need it to be really stable in my ear. Thank you in advance for your help!


A bit of dampness actually helps me create a stronger seal. That said try looking at the FiiO, TRN, and Shure TWS adapters with an MMCX IEM to attach to it.


----------



## bladefd

cpugh9 said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> I am looking for a pair of true wireless "IEMs". The problem is that I have an ear condition that makes my ears itchy and therefore I have to put ear liquid in to moisturize them. Thus, regular IEMs tend to fall out of my ear. I need something with support either in the outer ear or around the ear.  Can anyone suggest truewireless IEMs that have something like this? I need it to be really stable in my ear. Thank you in advance for your help!



You may need xelastec eartips. They are supposed to create suction and just stick inside your ears. Just expensive eartips and I am not sure if they will fit certain TWS cases. You can email them to ask once you have in mind couple tws models you want to try. Depending on what features you are looking for and cost


----------



## jant71

cpugh9 said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> I am looking for a pair of true wireless "IEMs". The problem is that I have an ear condition that makes my ears itchy and therefore I have to put ear liquid in to moisturize them. Thus, regular IEMs tend to fall out of my ear. I need something with support either in the outer ear or around the ear.  Can anyone suggest truewireless IEMs that have something like this? I need it to be really stable in my ear. Thank you in advance for your help!


These... https://www.amazon.com/JVC-Wireless...1&keywords=JVC+HA-E45BT&qid=1613498268&sr=8-5 ...will be stable and configurable as they have both fins and ear guides that you can use either type or both together.


----------



## tinyman392

cpugh9 said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> I am looking for a pair of true wireless "IEMs". The problem is that I have an ear condition that makes my ears itchy and therefore I have to put ear liquid in to moisturize them. Thus, regular IEMs tend to fall out of my ear. I need something with support either in the outer ear or around the ear.  Can anyone suggest truewireless IEMs that have something like this? I need it to be really stable in my ear. Thank you in advance for your help!



Another idea that just came up, UE Fits are kind of partially custom fit to the shape of your ear.  They may or may not have the secure fit you’re looking for though.  I think there is a 30-day refund on them though.


----------



## erockg

Thesonofkrypton said:


> That's exactly why I personally always take all these earphones/headphones and gear reviews with a large pinch of salt, as everyone hearing/musical taste and expectations are different.  Only your own experiences will really tell you if something is right for you, which is why this hobby is so expensive lol


Totally agree.


----------



## Canabuc

clerkpalmer said:


> something is up then.  There are reports all over the place of terrible ANC on the MTW2 (reddit has several threads on the topic).  Either this is user error, ANC is terrible or there are a lot of these in the wild with faulty hardware.  I did some digging and ultimately concluded the ANC was just weak and it was not hardware related.  I attempted to contact Sennheiser about it but their customer service leaves a lot to be desired.  Everything is done via an email portal.
> 
> Perhaps it is a fitment issue - IDK but it is strange that some report excellent ANC and others report virtually no ANC.  With mine I could hear the ANC "engage" but it just didn't do anything.  My test was against an exercise fan so maybe the particular hum of my fan wasn't in the sweet spot but with my Bose and Gemini, the fan immediately gets killed.


As I said I can get a good fit and anc is great. Smallest adjustment of the earbud may not effect the sound from the buds but anc goes weak. It really is a fit issue and thus hard to notice as in my ears the sound doesn’t change only the seal is tiny bit less and ANC gets weak.


----------



## erockg

tinyman392 said:


> Another idea that just came up, UE Fits are kind of partially custom fit to the shape of your ear.  They may or may not have the secure fit you’re looking for though.  I think there is a 30-day refund on them though.


I just returned mine.  Fit was good, had issues with my right ear, always do.  Sound was okay.  Gemini, Grado, Melomania Touch, blows them away IMO.  But again, the fit is special if you can get a good impression.  I preferred my Bragi Dash Starkey Edition fit by far, but those were done by an audiologist.  Maybe that is the next step for UE but I can't see that happening in this day and age if they want to make a profit.  Too niche.


----------



## myltz400

cpugh9 said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> I am looking for a pair of true wireless "IEMs". The problem is that I have an ear condition that makes my ears itchy and therefore I have to put ear liquid in to moisturize them. Thus, regular IEMs tend to fall out of my ear. I need something with support either in the outer ear or around the ear.  Can anyone suggest truewireless IEMs that have something like this? I need it to be really stable in my ear. Thank you in advance for your help!



My I ask what liquid you use to combat the reaction to your ears?  I have the same problem and have almost given up on in ear monitors.


----------



## Canabuc

Did a brief ANC test with the Sennheiser and I understand why some think it doesn't do anything.

It's because the passive isolation is so good it just take out some extra low end beyond.

With no music bids in ANC off I listened to loud cafe and Ane noise. Noise was medium. Turned on ANC and there was a modest reduction such that the sound remaining was more high end.
 Then I removed the buds completely and was shocked at how loud the sound coming from tv was.

So what it means I'd that the PNC ANC combo together is excellent but the PNC is so good the ANC doesn't add much.

Conversely the APP were not good for PNC so there is a substantial difference when ANC turned on.


----------



## DigDub

Leeco said:


> The beauty is in the eyes of a beholder. Or in our case: everyone hears differently. I bought N6pro as a recommendation from you guys here, but boy, was it a huge pile of *@&#. I think mine must have been DOA. No bass and weird tonality. I got at least some Spinfits 360 out of the deal...
> 
> What I've learned is that EVERYONE hears differently. Crinacle put Sony XM3s on the same level as Buds Plus...  XM3s are at least a level higher (or even two) IMO.


I believe most of us who have the n6pro would agree it is not exactly bassy or warm sounding. The n6pro is known more for its detail retrieval and neutral signature. The xm3 is bassy and a more consumer friendly sound. So that would match what most of us describes. It just happens that you appreciate a more bassy sound while some appreciate a flatter and "faster" sound.


----------



## cpugh9

myltz400 said:


> My I ask what liquid you use to combat the reaction to your ears?  I have the same problem and have almost given up on in ear monitors.



Sure, I use mineral oil. It's not bad. It helps for a little while. I find that I have to do it regularly (like at least 2x a day) in order to get it to work. When I've used cortisone prescription drops, those work better, but it's not really sustainable for dry ears. I don't really produce ear wax. I wish I did. Ear wax keeps everything moist.


----------



## 543293

Does anyone here have the Soundpeats H1?


----------



## Dregur

Lorelock said:


> Does anyone here have the Soundpeats H1?



I'm interested too, would love it for gaming on my PC (I have a BT reciever with APTX LL).

But it seems they're not selling it, and doesn't even show up on their website which I find odd.


----------



## erockg

Anyone have both the Grado's and the Melomania Touch?  Thoughts?  Really enjoying both.


----------



## jasonb

Dregur said:


> I'm interested too, would love it for gaming on my PC (I have a BT reciever with APTX LL).
> 
> But it seems they're not selling it, and doesn't even show up on their website which I find odd.



assuming you mean transmitter, not receiver.


----------



## samandhi

DigDub said:


> I believe most of us who have the n6pro would agree it is not exactly bassy or warm sounding. The n6pro is known more for its detail retrieval and neutral signature. The xm3 is bassy and a more consumer friendly sound. So that would match what most of us describes. It just happens that you appreciate a more bassy sound while some appreciate a flatter and "faster" sound.


How do the N6pro EQ? I do like the notion of a flatter tuning, but like to EQ it to my taste (depending on the type of music I am listening to). Flat is great for critical listening, but sometimes you just want to tune it a bit to a more fun nature.


----------



## Quad Dac (Feb 16, 2021)

.


----------



## Leeco

samandhi said:


> How do the N6pro EQ? I do like the notion of a flatter tuning, but like to EQ it to my taste (depending on the type of music I am listening to). Flat is great for critical listening, but sometimes you just want to tune it a bit to a more fun nature.


I wouldn’t describe N6pro as having a “flatter tuning”. I have Etymotic ER4S, and they have a perfect amount of bass (and a perfect tuning for a deep-fitting iem). I know that opinions vary, but N6pro do NOT sound anywhere close to ER4s. Again, it’s just my opinion, but NUARL’s sound to me like somebody EQed bass out of them on purpose. 
Here in Japan where I live, there are so many N6PRO circulating on the second-hand market, that the average price of these has dropped to around $60 US.
I have to admit that there is a chance that I was unlucky and got a busted pair... who knows...


----------



## samandhi

Leeco said:


> I wouldn’t describe N6pro as having a “flatter tuning”. I have Etymotic ER4S, and they have a perfect amount of bass (and a perfect tuning for a deep-fitting iem). I know that opinions vary, but N6pro do NOT sound anywhere close to ER4s. Again, it’s just my opinion, but NUARL’s sound to me like somebody EQed bass out of them on purpose.
> Here in Japan where I live, there are so many N6PRO circulating on the second-hand market, that the average price of these has dropped to around $60 US.
> I have to admit that there is a chance that I was unlucky and got a busted pair... who knows...


WOW! The cheapest I have seen them here (US) is $120. So would you call these a more mid forward presentation? I have some Tinhifi P1 and most people that are used to a lot of bass called them bass lite. I find them (with just a tad of EQ) to be very punchy (though not a ton of rumble) and satisfying for most of my music needs (I use the Audiosense T800 for better bass and more musical). I am looking for something more analytical in nature than most of the TWS I have heard (ER4S not being one of them). I know I am asking a lot from a TWS.

I also have the Hifiman TWS600 (which I got for $50) and while they aren't bad with the 1k and 2k reduced by a ton and some bass bumped up, they sound a bit grainy and not quite what I was looking for. They are pretty decent at detail retrieval, but lack body, and are thin sounding. Overall They are pretty good for the price, and considering they ONLY have SBC they sound pretty good in that respect. 

I have found the Melomania Touch way off for my taste. Big boomy bass, recessed mids, and veiled treble keep me from loving them. They DO EQ decently (not from the app though IMO), but even after EQ to my taste they don't quite get the tone and timbre right for me. 

I still have my OG Bose Soundsport Free, and they DO sound pretty good, and can EQ them to my tastes, and have a natural passthrough mode (not being an in ear earphone), they stick out SOOO much, and the battery life is atrocious. The bass is a bit boosted and does (in some songs) override the mids, but I can EQ that out for the most part, but then they sound pretty dull. I like flat response, not lifeless...


----------



## DigDub

samandhi said:


> How do the N6pro EQ? I do like the notion of a flatter tuning, but like to EQ it to my taste (depending on the type of music I am listening to). Flat is great for critical listening, but sometimes you just want to tune it a bit to a more fun nature.


N6pro doesn't respond to EQ well. Maybe that's why nuarl has the n6 for those who prefer a warmer sound.


----------



## bronco1015

Canabuc said:


> It is finicky though. More dependent on a good ear seal than say Jabra. Samsung also very dependent.
> 
> Think comply tips would make all the difference as for me the MTW2 fit seems to vary. Sometimes tighter and then it is better sometimes a bit looser.





clerkpalmer said:


> something is up then.  There are reports all over the place of terrible ANC on the MTW2 (reddit has several threads on the topic).  Either this is user error, ANC is terrible or there are a lot of these in the wild with faulty hardware.  I did some digging and ultimately concluded the ANC was just weak and it was not hardware related.  I attempted to contact Sennheiser about it but their customer service leaves a lot to be desired.  Everything is done via an email portal.
> 
> Perhaps it is a fitment issue - IDK but it is strange that some report excellent ANC and others report virtually no ANC.  With mine I could hear the ANC "engage" but it just didn't do anything.  My test was against an exercise fan so maybe the particular hum of my fan wasn't in the sweet spot but with my Bose and Gemini, the fan immediately gets killed.


I think @Canabuc put it best. When i think back to first owning these, i remember how weak the ANC was for me until the firmware update i did in october. Even then while they do fit better than the OG MTW for me, meaning i didn't have to spend as much time finding a perfect fit as i did with the 1st gen, they are more difficult to get a seal with. That's gonna be key for many things obviously, ANC included. @clerkpalmer I'm not disputing what you're saying, i'm just saying while they definitely aren't the ANC kings or even in the top 3 IMO, i think a case for a spot in the top 5 could be made, definitely top7.


----------



## cresny

The Devialet Gemini will be back, and apparently it was a software issue. https://www.01net.com/actualites/de...s-ecouteurs-true-wireless-gemini-2035004.html
Meanwhile mine have been holding up well and if you want great ANC along with great sound, I suggest you wait.


----------



## myltz400

cpugh9 said:


> Sure, I use mineral oil. It's not bad. It helps for a little while. I find that I have to do it regularly (like at least 2x a day) in order to get it to work. When I've used cortisone prescription drops, those work better, but it's not really sustainable for dry ears. I don't really produce ear wax. I wish I did. Ear wax keeps everything moist.


Thanks for the info!


----------



## soullinker20

Im not giving up on the Geminis yet. i love the the size and fit as well as the sound. on the batt draining issue it could be that it just doesn't disconnect even if i manually disconnect and turn off my laptop and phone's bluetooth. 
hopefully the firmware update comes out the soonest. for the mean time i managed to prevent the left earbud from draining. after disconnecting and putting them on the chamber i just press the button to make them pair again (blinking blue) in that way i think you can say it has disconnected


----------



## kolbo

Anyone saw newer reviews of the KEF mu3? Google search just shows me PR pieces.


----------



## Dregur

jasonb said:


> assuming you mean transmitter, not receiver.



Yes, I mean, it's both, but I meant transmitter yes.


----------



## Luke Skywalker

Well this sucks. I bought the “Technics EAH-AZ70W-K” a month ago and today the right bud stopped working.

I’ve tried re-pairing with my iPhone 12 and nothing... they haven’t even been dropped

anyone else have this issue?


----------



## Luke Skywalker

samandhi said:


> How do the N6pro EQ? I do like the notion of a flatter tuning, but like to EQ it to my taste (depending on the type of music I am listening to). Flat is great for critical listening, but sometimes you just want to tune it a bit to a more fun nature.


I just stuck the N6P’s in my ears and turned on the music and they sounded amazing. I hate monkeying around endlessly with EQ settings. I spent days doing that with my XM3’s and still hated the sound


----------



## Luke Skywalker

cresny said:


> The Devialet Gemini will be back, and apparently it was a software issue. https://www.01net.com/actualites/de...s-ecouteurs-true-wireless-gemini-2035004.html
> Meanwhile mine have been holding up well and if you want great ANC along with great sound, I suggest you wait.


Those look pretty wicked but I don’t see any mention of AAC. I think I’d be stuck with SBC on my iPhone right?


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

erockg said:


> Anyone have both the Grado's and the Melomania Touch?  Thoughts?  Really enjoying both.


Made an account just to reply to you.

Currently have:
Soundcore Liberty Air 2 Pro
Soundcore Liberty Air
Melomania Touch
APPs
Senn CX400bt (in transit)
Jabra Elite 85T (on order)
Status Between 2 Pro (on order)

I'm no stranger to a multitude of IEMs or on/over-ears, but losing a headphone jack on my phone and this whole working from home thing caused me to reevaluate how I listen to music.

That being said, I positively LOVE the MTs...when they work. Fit was challenging, but finally settled on some size M wingtips and L SpinFit CP360 tips to take care of the slippery fitment issues. Problem is that one or both ears tend to disconnect mid-listen. I've even tried manually resetting both buds to no avail. That's not ideal for anybody here at the house (especially during late-night listening) so the LA2Ps have been getting most of the favor. They're light, comfortable, connection is stable, and all the features just kinda work. The added bonus of wireless charging comes more in handy than even I predicted it could.

It's a shame. If the MTs had the connection stability of the LA2Ps, they'd be my daily pair. They really do sound that good and handle EQ pretty admirably. I have high hopes for the remaining pairs coming in (and still secretly hoping the wife surprises me with Noble Falcon Pros for a belated V-Day present), but for now, I'm all smiles with the Soundcores.


----------



## erockg

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Made an account just to reply to you.
> 
> Currently have:
> Soundcore Liberty Air 2 Pro
> ...


Ha Ha ha!! Well, ain't no going back now.  The MT's are putting up a strong fight against my Grado's.  I have an issue with my right ear as always, but when I find the sweet spot, the MT are killer.  I'm working from home and have zero issues with the MT bt.  I've had those LPs.  Didn't love the fit.  I also really love passthrough mode on earbuds for work. They were supposed to add that feature to the LP but not sure what happened there.  Thanks for the input.


----------



## erockg

Luke Skywalker said:


> Those look pretty wicked but I don’t see any mention of AAC. I think I’d be stuck with SBC on my iPhone right?


Not sure.  I have an iPhone 12 and the Gemini sound was absolutely euphoric.  That said, I returned them due to certain issues.  If they fix them with a firmware update, I'll buy them again in a heartbeat.


----------



## erockg

erockg said:


> I just got the Earin A-3 and one of the buds died.  Literally, the day after I received them from Sweden.  Their sending a replacement, but still very very frustrating.


Almost three weeks and Earin is really dropping the ball.  No replacement yet and zero responses from their Customer Service folks.  Just awful.  They actually used to be quite responsive.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic (Feb 17, 2021)

Luke Skywalker said:


> Those look pretty wicked but I don’t see any mention of AAC. I think I’d be stuck with SBC on my iPhone right?


I thought iPhones were AAC only. Can someone confirm?



erockg said:


> Ha Ha ha!! Well, ain't no going back now.  The MT's are putting up a strong fight against my Grado's.  I have an issue with my right ear as always, but when I find the sweet spot, the MT are killer.  I'm working from home and have zero issues with the MT bt.  I've had those LPs.  Didn't love the fit.  I also really love passthrough mode on earbuds for work. They were supposed to add that feature to the LP but not sure what happened there.  Thanks for the input.


The LA2P fit more like traditional earbuds, so the addition of SpinFits mean I get a secure fit with no pressure points that I can detect. I can see how the L2P form factor wouldn't be comfortable on a lot of ear types, though.

I'm optimistically waiting for another firmware update for the MTs. Agree 100% that they're fantastic, especially at the price point. Have you tip-rolled them, yet? I couldn't get a consistently good seal with any of the stock tips. Also might help to go larger than you initially think you need and going for a shallower fit. Kinda counterintuitive, but it worked for me.


----------



## BigZ12 (Feb 17, 2021)

https://www.theverge.com/2021/2/16/...elling-consumer-headphones-soundbars-business

So no Senn' MTW3 then?


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

BigZ12 said:


> https://www.theverge.com/2021/2/16/...elling-consumer-headphones-soundbars-business
> 
> So no Senn' MTW3 then? :/


Not what I got from the article at all. Sounds more like they want an investor to put muscle behind sales in consumer electronics so they can focus more on what they do best: innovate.

Didn't realize Neumann was one of their babies, though. That's kinda cool.


----------



## deuter

I got the Grado GT 220 based partially on the advise I received here.
The Devialet Gemini seem to be atleast another month away from being re-released.
The Grado’s are really nice, play louder then my Sennheiser Momentum’s, have huge base and possibly little more detail.
The thing that really stands out for me is that they are in you face and very dynamic.

Thanks guys for the fine advise.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Not what I got from the article at all. Sounds more like they want an investor to put muscle behind sales in consumer electronics so they can focus more on what they do best: innovate.
> 
> Didn't realize Neumann was one of their babies, though. That's kinda cool.


Went and re-read it. Now I see where the idea of them selling would come from. That'd be a shame if they mistook the pressure COVID has placed on people's buying power as a sign they have to sell their consumer electronics division. Let's hope it doesn't get to that.


----------



## cresny

Luke Skywalker said:


> Those look pretty wicked but I don’t see any mention of AAC. I think I’d be stuck with SBC on my iPhone right?


SBC, AAC and APT-X (afaik)


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

cresny said:


> SBC, AAC and APT-X (afaik)


https://darko.audio/2019/03/tangled-up-in-bluetooth-ldac-aptx-and-aac/

_The elephant in the room is Apple. It chooses not to option Sony’s LDAC or Qualcomm’s aptX / aptX HD for its iOS devices — only AAC. This has sound quality implications for some Bluetooth headphone models. Pair any Apple iPhone with the Sennheiser Momentum Wireless and the Bluetooth connection will fall back to the inferior sounding SBC. Ditto Koss Porta Pro Wireless. iPhone users seek out AAC support in their chosen Bluetooth headphone. _

Looks like SBC and AAC. I'm assuming SBC for voice traffic, AAC for audio streams. I know there is a hack to enable aptX on MacOS, but don't think there currently is one for iOS.


----------



## bladefd

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Made an account just to reply to you.
> 
> Currently have:
> Soundcore Liberty Air 2 Pro
> ...



I don't have connection issues with my MT since the firmware. Did you try fully resetting them, re-pairing and then firmware update? Worth a shot!


----------



## hifi80sman

Just got around to pulling the trigger on the MTW2.  So far, so good.  Does anyone know, precisely, what the "High-End Sound Tuning" does?  It seems as though it may be hardware based, given it notes battery life is impacted.  Enjoying them so far with "High-End Sound Tuning" activated.

Sitting near an air intake main, the ANC does git rid of mostly all of the "whooshing" rumbling, but environmental noise is still present.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

bladefd said:


> I don't have connection issues with my MT since the firmware. Did you try fully resetting them, re-pairing and then firmware update? Worth a shot!


I've done:

Multiple manual resets for both buds while in the case
Verified firmware is up to date on both buds
Gone into Low Power mode and then back to whatever the HiFi mode was called
Done another manual reset over all of that
I know they're working on similar connectivity issues from other user reports and from correspondence I've had with Cambridge (the CEO putting his email on the packaging was a smart touch), so I'm willing to be patient and deal with a couple dropped signals here and there. For someone who has those as their only pair, though, I could see it being a dealbreaker. That sound signature can just get so infectious. It's the first time in a long time I didn't feel cheated because something wasn't neutral out of the box.


----------



## erockg

hifi80sman said:


> Just got around to pulling the trigger on the MTW2.  So far, so good.  Does anyone know, precisely, what the "High-End Sound Tuning" does?  It seems as though it may be hardware based, given it notes battery life is impacted.  Enjoying them so far with "High-End Sound Tuning" activated.
> 
> Sitting near an air intake main, the ANC does git rid of mostly all of the "whooshing" rumbling, but environmental noise is still present.


https://everydaylistening.net/2020/10/28/sennheiser-mtw2-high-end-sound-tuning-update-impressions/
When I still had my MTW2, I did notice a difference and it was quite nice.


----------



## jant71 (Feb 17, 2021)

https://www.meeaudio.com/X20/
Mee with their ANC model that doesn't seem to be trying to hard but they are only $99. Big looking case, so-so battery life. No volume control with the buds and no ambient. They say they are "heavy" on features but not really. Hopefully they sound good as they state they use the 10mm from the M6 pro 2nd gen I guess but not sure how good that is.

For, a heavy on the features TWS from Mee would have ambient and Cinema Ear settings on the buds and maybe in-ear detection and volume control.


----------



## Luke Skywalker

miserybeforethemusic said:


> https://darko.audio/2019/03/tangled-up-in-bluetooth-ldac-aptx-and-aac/
> 
> _The elephant in the room is Apple. It chooses not to option Sony’s LDAC or Qualcomm’s aptX / aptX HD for its iOS devices — only AAC. _


Ya that really frustrates me too. I can hear a noticeable difference when going Iphone -> ES100 (AAC) -> JH Lola IEMs versus my HiBy R6 Pro using LDAC 

The best option I’ve found for audiophile listening on the iPhone is to use my iFi xDSD and a balanced cable.

tidal MQA’s sound amazing and DSD files are sublime...


----------



## bladefd

miserybeforethemusic said:


> I've done:
> 
> Multiple manual resets for both buds while in the case
> Verified firmware is up to date on both buds
> ...



Perhaps you can ask for replacement. I used to have so many issues before firmware update especially with connection. It might be possible you have a bad unit. They will pay for shipping both ways.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

bladefd said:


> Perhaps you can ask for replacement. I used to have so many issues before firmware update especially with connection. It might be possible you have a bad unit. They will pay for shipping both ways.


Thanks. I'll consider it. Should be easy enough considering I ordered from them


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

Luke Skywalker said:


> Ya that really frustrates me too. I can hear a noticeable difference when going Iphone -> ES100 (AAC) -> JH Lola IEMs versus my HiBy R6 Pro using LDAC
> 
> The best option I’ve found for audiophile listening on the iPhone is to use my iFi xDSD and a balanced cable.
> 
> tidal MQA’s sound amazing and DSD files are sublime...


Can relate. I've fed my OnePlus 6 via USB-C OTG to a Monoprice THX desktop a few times. Conversely, I've also just plugged in one of those tiny metal mobile DAC/amps and tried to run a pair of iSine 10s through each. Totally not the same experience. First one sounds amazing on stuff like this. I don't recommend the second one.


----------



## dweaver

Luke Skywalker said:


> Well this sucks. I bought the “Technics EAH-AZ70W-K” a month ago and today the right bud stopped working.
> 
> I’ve tried re-pairing with my iPhone 12 and nothing... they haven’t even been dropped
> 
> anyone else have this issue?


At risk of jinxing myself my pair is working great so far.


----------



## Luke Skywalker

Hmm... Grado G220 or Noble Falcon Pro?  so many choices.  The new ultimate ears?


----------



## Canabuc

Right now I think best sound for money is Fiil T1PRO and Sennheiser cx400 BT as is on sale for 100$US.

Love sound off the MTW2 though could be a tick louder in volume. Given the great value of the CX400 and fact that the T1pro are perfect workout bids. I think I might just return them for the CX400 and save 150$ US to use towards a future purchase or get crazy and reorder the Sony XM3. I loveed their sound and ANC and comfort was fine but fit wasn't most secure. Think more tip rolling in order.


----------



## KPzypher

hifi80sman said:


> Just got around to pulling the trigger on the MTW2.  So far, so good.  Does anyone know, precisely, what the "High-End Sound Tuning" does?  It seems as though it may be hardware based, given it notes battery life is impacted.  Enjoying them so far with "High-End Sound Tuning" activated.
> 
> Sitting near an air intake main, the ANC does git rid of mostly all of the "whooshing" rumbling, but environmental noise is still present.



MTW2 are all I listen to now.  I like the Grado GT220 as well, but they're too 'in your face' and a bit fatiguing for long sessions.  And I feel like my ears are getting violated every time I stick those long azz stems in.  The rest of the lineup are just too sibilant.  One thing i've noticed is that a lot of the TWS are tuned too bright up top to appear to have that clarity/resolution they lack. Not my cup of tea.


----------



## KPzypher

Anyone know if Momentum 3s have similar SQ to the MTW2?


----------



## tinyman392 (Feb 17, 2021)

Luke Skywalker said:


> Hmm... Grado G220 or Noble Falcon Pro?  so many choices.  The new ultimate ears?



After getting a better fitting tip on the OG Noble Falcon (not Pro) I'm actually very happy with their size and form factor (the case is extremely small which is a huge plus).  They are on the bassier side though.  The GT220 looks like it would be very close to the Harman curve with maybe a small boost in the treble (might create a V-shaped sound).  The UE sound great to my ears, slightly above the APP in all categories while retaining the majority of the main signature.  They are crippled by their control though and because of that I don't really use them often.  They are the most comfortable universal IEM I own right next to my RE-1000 CIEM.


----------



## Caipirina (Feb 18, 2021)

Since I don't get anything new for the foreseeable future I have to make do with what I have (It's called 'stretching vs. chasing'   )  so I spent the last few days updating my TWS spreadsheet (which I shall never share, out of shame) and tested pretty much all my devices, checking for battery rot / contacts corrosion ...

So much fun to 'rediscover' some oldies but goodies ... (also coming across some of the utter trash I somehow got) .. surprises like some older Anyfun, which had not been used / charged since before last summer, but still connecting right away with 90% battery charge!

I think I will make a small top 5 list based on my recent findings ... like the long term gems.

In there for sure will be the Sabbat X12 pro ... those are still the best running buds IMHO ... even though I have to fiddle every morning with putting on foams and wings .. and they can dislocate from the contacts and I wake up to one side empty, they are just fantastic in sound, there is no runner's thud ... and today, I put them in 7:45, started running ... and they have been in my ears since then, it is 1:05PM now ! and they still show 40% battery !!! and no ear fatigue!

What are some of your old all time favs?

(edit: by 1:45 they were at 30% and then moved very quickly to 10% and then just off. like 1 minute after first and only low battery warning ... but getting 6h from a device I bought in Nov 2019 and have used quite well since then ... nice)


----------



## bronco1015

soullinker20 said:


> Im not giving up on the Geminis yet. i love the the size and fit as well as the sound. on the batt draining issue it could be that it just doesn't disconnect even if i manually disconnect and turn off my laptop and phone's bluetooth.
> hopefully the firmware update comes out the soonest. for the mean time i managed to prevent the left earbud from draining. after disconnecting and putting them on the chamber i just press the button to make them pair again (blinking blue) in that way i think you can say it has disconnected


Any time i noticed my OG MTW  battery draining i'd do the same thing. They seemed to shut off after a minute or 2, and that has really helped prolong the battery on them.


----------



## bronco1015

hifi80sman said:


> Just got around to pulling the trigger on the MTW2.  So far, so good.  Does anyone know, precisely, what the "High-End Sound Tuning" does?  It seems as though it may be hardware based, given it notes battery life is impacted.  Enjoying them so far with "High-End Sound Tuning" activated.
> 
> Sitting near an air intake main, the ANC does git rid of mostly all of the "whooshing" rumbling, but environmental noise is still present.


I honestly don't notice much of a difference with high-end tuning on or off. I've considered factory resetting them then trying it.


----------



## veraideishal (Feb 18, 2021)

So, Fostex dropped a new version of the companion app for the TM2, and with it a new firmware version. Most of my previous complaints (see the quoted post below) have been addressed.

The firmware update process no longer requires you to update each unit separately (hooray)
The equalizer appears to sync to both units without needing a disconnect beforehand.
Landscape / ambient / environmental / hearthrough mode is still a disappointment, but much better than two firmware versions ago. UPDATE: It picks up bass frequencies (e.g. the rumble of a subway car) _really really well_.
It no longer blasts your ears with noise at random intervals.
So they’re getting there, after a bit more than a year. Still would not recommend buying them if you don’t already own them. If you do, the firmware might make them better.



veraideishal said:


> So, Fostex have finally released a new version of the TM2 control app (on iOS, at least; Android is still stuck on the old version), and with it a new firmware for the TM2. The firmware update requires you to connect each unit of the TM2 separately to your iPhone, and update each separately (uh...why?). The update will take about 5 minutes for each unit, so 10 minutes total.
> 
> New features:
> 
> ...


----------



## BigZ12

veraideishal said:


> So, Fostex dropped a new version of the companion app for the TM2, and with it a new firmware version. Most of my previous complaints (see the quoted post below) have been addressed.
> 
> The firmware update process no longer requires you to update each unit separately (hooray)
> The equalizer appears to sync to both units without needing a disconnect beforehand.
> ...


Why are they so expensive, compared to the FiiO UTWS3 for ex.?


----------



## Luke Skywalker

tinyman392 said:


> After getting a better fitting tip on the OG Noble Falcon (not Pro) I'm actually very happy with their size and form factor (the case is extremely small which is a huge plus).  They are on the bassier side though.  The GT220 looks like it would be very close to the Harman curve with maybe a small boost in the treble (might create a V-shaped sound).  The UE sound great to my ears, slightly above the APP in all categories while retaining the majority of the main signature.  They are crippled by their control though and because of that I don't really use them often.  They are the most comfortable universal IEM I own right next to my RE-1000 CIEM.


Thanks for the advice!  Tough decision.  Tempted to buy another pair of the Bose NC but I know as soon as they arrive I’ll find mine under my couch or something 

Not sure what to get.  Guess I need to return my Technics because the right bud stopped working.  I have my XM3’s which work well for you phone calls but I hate the sound and they don’t stay in my ears even after trying every tip in my Arsenal


----------



## Canabuc

Luke Skywalker said:


> Thanks for the advice!  Tough decision.  Tempted to buy another pair of the Bose NC but I know as soon as they arrive I’ll find mine under my couch or something
> 
> Not sure what to get.  Guess I need to return my Technics because the right bud stopped working.  I have my XM3’s which work well for you phone calls but I hate the sound and they don’t stay in my ears even after trying every tip in my Arsenal


What is your budget and your top 3 wants out of TWS earbud?


----------



## MuzicGuy (Feb 18, 2021)

Guys who own MTW 2/CX 400BT can you share your experiences with lag. Does anyone gets Audio lag when watching YouTube or streaming from Netflix/hulu/disney+ or making video calls like in zoom on your phone?

Also what about your experiences using MTW 2/CX 400BT with your laptop (pc/mac)? Does audio lag happens when playing a video file or streaming shows/movies or making group video calls?


----------



## Canabuc

MuzicGuy said:


> Guys who own MTW 2/CX 400BT can you share your experiences with lag. Does anyone gets Audio lag when watching YouTube or streaming from Netflix/hulu/disney+ or making video calls like in zoom on your phone?
> 
> Also what about your experiences using MTW 2/CX 400BT with your laptop (pc/mac)? Does audio lag happens when playing a video file or streaming shows/movies or making group video calls?


Only tried YouTube and Netflix so far on Samsung devices and no lag.


----------



## Luke Skywalker

Canabuc said:


> What is your budget and your top 3 wants out of TWS earbud?


Budget = unlimited 
main wants: 
1) good to great noise cancellation or excellent passive blocking of outside noise. hear-through not important 
2) incredible sound for female vocals, classical and opera, instrumental guitar, Pink Floyd, blues, jazz... as close as possible to JH Lola sound signature
3) AAC. Other high end codecs are a huge plus 
4) great sound without having to endlessly fiddle with EQ settings. 

I don’t care about heavy bass for hip hop or phone call quality. 

thanks so much for the help!


----------



## Canabuc

Inear said:


> I just got the JBL Club Pro + and the sound quality is amazing, the bass is on point. ANC I need to try it out when I'm at the gym or go for my run. Anyone recommend any tips for them?


Any updates on these sound and ANC wise? I had them briefly and liked sound but my case was defective returned them and then price shot up.


----------



## Dregur

Canabuc said:


> Only tried YouTube and Netflix so far on Samsung devices and no lag.


I should point out that YouTube and Netflix both adjusts the audio so it syncs correctly. Usually games show more latency.


----------



## MuzicGuy

Dregur said:


> I should point out that YouTube and Netflix both adjusts the audio so it syncs correctly. Usually games show more latency.


I really don’t care about using them with games, all i care about if MTW 2/CX 400BT gets audio lag when watching videos/streaming whether it’s on laptops or smartphones.


----------



## erockg

MuzicGuy said:


> I really don’t care about using them with games, all i care about if MTW 2/CX 400BT gets audio lag when watching videos/streaming whether it’s on laptops or smartphones.


No, I've never experienced the above with the MTW2 for video on an iPhone 12.  CX is the same tech, no ANC, et al.


----------



## bladefd

MuzicGuy said:


> Guys who own MTW 2/CX 400BT can you share your experiences with lag. Does anyone gets Audio lag when watching YouTube or streaming from Netflix/hulu/disney+ or making video calls like in zoom on your phone?
> 
> Also what about your experiences using MTW 2/CX 400BT with your laptop (pc/mac)? Does audio lag happens when playing a video file or streaming shows/movies or making group video calls?



I was getting slight lag with the cx400bt on my Google pixel 3. The only one without much lag were Sony wf-1000xm3. Melomania touch doesn't have much lag either.

It would be a challenge to play games on it though. I don't play games on it so I didn't check how that lag time was with the cx400bt.


----------



## bladefd

Dregur said:


> I should point out that YouTube and Netflix both adjusts the audio so it syncs correctly. Usually games show more latency.



Not all apps do that auto-sync afaik. Just certain ones


----------



## bladefd

MuzicGuy said:


> I really don’t care about using them with games, all i care about if MTW 2/CX 400BT gets audio lag when watching videos/streaming whether it’s on laptops or smartphones.



I noticed some minor lag on YouTube between lips of people moving vs audio when I first got the cx400bt. It wasn't too bad but I could notice if I paid close attention to it. I was using aptx.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

bladefd said:


> I was getting slight lag with the cx400bt on my Google pixel 3. The only one without much lag were Sony wf-1000xm3. Melomania touch doesn't have much lag either.
> 
> It would be a challenge to play games on it though. I don't play games on it so I didn't check how that lag time was with the cx400bt.


MT has been the most consistently lag-free TWS I've messed with so far. Assuming it has something to do with each earbud receiving its own BT signal directly from the device and the utilization of aptX.


----------



## Canabuc

Just reordered the JBl as price dropped again on Amazon. Hopefully case has no issue this time. 
They have a video mode to reduce latency which is good apparently.


----------



## Tommy C

Canabuc said:


> Just reordered the JBl as price dropped again on Amazon. Hopefully case has no issue this time.
> They have a video mode to reduce latency which is good apparently.


JBL which model?


----------



## veraideishal

BigZ12 said:


> Why are they so expensive, compared to the FiiO UTWS3 for ex.?


My best guess is that it’s because the TM2 is from a Japanese company, Fostex. Other than the landscape (ambient, etc.) mode, it’s really nothing special by now.


----------



## Canabuc (Feb 18, 2021)

Luke Skywalker said:


> Budget = unlimited
> main wants:
> 1) good to great noise cancellation or excellent passive blocking of outside noise. hear-through not important
> 2) incredible sound for female vocals, classical and opera, instrumental guitar, Pink Floyd, blues, jazz... as close as possible to JH Lola sound signature
> ...



MTW2 would be my top choice for all your needs.
If better ANC is important more so than overall sound, 85t Jabra or Bose.
Samsung if you can get a good fit have had 2 updates recently and ANC is improved. I am ordering my last set of eartips to get comfy fit in my right ear as they would be my top sou ding earbud that has ANC and great sound without a crazy big case.

Sony XM3 is also a great option for sound and ANC.

I know not helpful but presuming you Sony go Apple I would go:

 for sound:
1. MTW2
2. Buds pro/XM3/JBL
3. Bose anecdotal as have not heard
4. 85t
5. Technics

If ANC is top priority
1. Bose
2. XM3/85T
3. Buds pro/Technics
4. MTW2/JBL

For budget and if don't mind Chinese app and voice prompts, would put Fiil T1PRO in 3rd for sound
and tied for 4th with MTW2 for ANC.


----------



## Canabuc

Tommy C said:


> JBL which model?


Club pro +. Were among my favorite sounding earbuds but the wireless charging was not working on the case. At 220$ canadian which is about 165$USD. Up there with the Sony but with smaller more comfortable buds and case, wireless charging ipx4, and equal battery life. Only area it was worse than Sony was ANC but to be honest I think I didn't have the best seal when I tried them as the tips ran a bit small for me. Have some other tips on way to try too.


----------



## kolbo

Canabuc said:


> Club pro +. Were among my favorite sounding earbuds but the wireless charging was not working on the case. At 220$ canadian which is about 165$USD. Up there with the Sony but with smaller more comfortable buds and case, wireless charging ipx4, and equal battery life. Only area it was worse than Sony was ANC but to be honest I think I didn't have the best seal when I tried them as the tips ran a bit small for me. Have some other tips on way to try too.


Does it have touch or real buttons?


----------



## Canabuc

kolbo said:


> Does it have touch or real buttons?


JBL has touch controls. Only buds I know with buttons are the Jabra. I think the Kef are supposed to have buttons too.


----------



## samandhi

Canabuc said:


> JBL has touch controls. Only buds I know with buttons are the Jabra. I think the Kef are supposed to have buttons too.


*LYPERTEK TEVI*​*Liberty 2*​Redmi Earbuds S​*Hifiman TWS600

Bose Soundsport Free

Melomania 1*

I am sure there are a lot more, but it seems that the physical button hasn't died out JUST yet. I'm on the fence about which I like best. I think it depends on the implementation.


----------



## Canabuc

samandhi said:


> *LYPERTEK TEVI*​*Liberty 2*​Redmi Earbuds S​*Hifiman TWS600
> 
> Bose Soundsport Free
> 
> ...


Every bud you listed was made in 2019 or before.


----------



## samandhi

Canabuc said:


> Every bud you listed was made in 2019 or before.


Aah, my bad! I didn't know you meant new. I just assumed you meant of the ones still relevant (though the Bose ones aren't really anymore).


----------



## monsieurfromag3

The KEF Mu3 have landed... 
Physical buttons. They look killer. Will report soon.


----------



## cqtek

fusionramjet said:


> Geekfly has an updated TWS: GF8S, available from Penon.
> Anyone know how it differs from the original one?



I don't have the previous version, but I do have the new one. And I have to say it is the best sounding TWS I have tried. Yes, it is also the most expensive and I don't have that many TWS to compare either. But I do have many wired IEMS and this one is on par with many of them, even above. Also, its frequency response is not as strange as other TWS, but very much like that of the TFZ Live X, but without as much physical capability in the low end.
It has been a very pleasant surprise for me.


----------



## diimaan

My Mu3! 















As for as I can tell from my limited listening experience it is no way a bass light one! The bass actually rumbles when called for. May be the fit matters, but for me large on the left and medium on the right sits perfectly!
Not able to test the ANC completely, but it cancels out decent enough noise like my computer fan. 
One quirk would be the buttons, as I have to press them little harder and it presses the tws inside my ears further! I believe the experienced headfi'ers can give much detailed explanation on the sound quality, detail retrieval etv! To my inexperienced ears this sounds good so far. Better than my previously used Galaxy Buds+, except may be little low on the volume.


----------



## Thesonofkrypton

diimaan said:


> My Mu3!
> 
> 
> 
> ...



The design of those are slick.  Using iPhone or Android?


----------



## diimaan

Thesonofkrypton said:


> The design of those are slick.  Using iPhone or Android?



Yeah, very light in the ears! I am on iLand 
So all those exquisite codecs doesn't matter as long as AAC is present!


----------



## mbk

cqtek said:


> I don't have the previous version, but I do have the new one. And I have to say it is the best sounding TWS I have tried. Yes, it is also the most expensive and I don't have that many TWS to compare either. But I do have many wired IEMS and this one is on par with many of them, even above. Also, its frequency response is not as strange as other TWS, but very much like that of the TFZ Live X, but without as much physical capability in the low end.
> It has been a very pleasant surprise for me.


 
Wow these look very interesting. I’ve never heard of a piezoelectric ceramic driver before. Response curve is a little scary for me. Do the mids sound very recessed? I’d like to see more reviews of these.


----------



## Canabuc

samandhi said:


> Aah, my bad! I didn't know you meant new. I just assumed you meant of the ones still relevant (though the Bose ones aren't really anymore).


I guess my point was most companies Bose included seem to have gone away from this design. Too bad as every touchpad I have used aside from Sennheiser leads to false presses when I sertin adjusting or removing them.


----------



## jant71

Thesonofkrypton said:


> The design of those are slick.


Shame they have buttons. I bought the AT over them mainly to not go back to the button pushing into the ears thing. The KEF has some nice ergomonc shape, they talk of weighting them for the right balance but they didn't think of the "button mashing' effect.

Odd one off type of thing. Monocozzi/ADV collab. 
https://www.ebay.com/itm/193629634187?var=493836899047&mkevt=1&mkcid=28&chn=ps


----------



## clerkpalmer

diimaan said:


> Yeah, very light in the ears! I am on iLand
> So all those exquisite codecs doesn't matter as long as AAC is present!


Where can these be purchased in the US?


----------



## tinyman392

clerkpalmer said:


> Where can these be purchased in the US?


Not the person you’re quoting, but Kef’s website might have them. I also saw them in Music Direct.


----------



## diimaan

clerkpalmer said:


> Where can these be purchased in the US?


I ordered through the KEF website in EU! It took little around 10-12 days to reach me in Germany! For states I think you can order from here


----------



## clerkpalmer

tinyman392 said:


> Not the person you’re quoting, but Kef’s website might have them. I also saw them in Music Direct.


Thanks. I tried music direct but they charge for shipping.  It’s 2021. I don’t pay for shipping. Lol.


----------



## clerkpalmer

diimaan said:


> I ordered through the KEF website in EU! It took little around 10-12 days to reach me in Germany! For states I think you can order from here


Thanks. Perfect. Free shipping and no sales tax.


----------



## tinyman392

clerkpalmer said:


> Thanks. I tried music direct but they charge for shipping.  It’s 2021. I don’t pay for shipping. Lol.


Than Kef’s website it is 😂


----------



## smith

cqtek said:


> I don't have the previous version, but I do have the new one. And I have to say it is the best sounding TWS I have tried. Yes, it is also the most expensive and I don't have that many TWS to compare either. But I do have many wired IEMS and this one is on par with many of them, even above. Also, its frequency response is not as strange as other TWS, but very much like that of the TFZ Live X, but without as much physical capability in the low end.
> It has been a very pleasant surprise for me.


Do they have good volume/loudness ...my big issue with a lot of TWS. On the box they mention class A Amp but is this just marketing...


----------



## tinyman392

smith said:


> Do they have good volume/loudness ...my big issue with a lot of TWS. On the box they mention class A Amp but is this just marketing...


Class A is a type of amplifier (vs B, AB, D, etc.). So if it isn’t a class A amp, then that’s pretty blatant false advertisement.


----------



## clerkpalmer

Tempted to grab the Sennheiser CX 400BT before the sale ends this weekend as my "beater" TWS set.  My primary use would be biking (trail not road) where I don't need ANC but do enjoy good sound.  Seems like these are going to be hard to beat for $99.  Anyone who has owned both this and the MTW comment on whether fit is an issue?  I had no problems with the fit of the MTW2.  Thanks.  Anything else out there in at $99 that can hang with these for sound?


----------



## Canabuc

clerkpalmer said:


> Tempted to grab the Sennheiser CX 400BT before the sale ends this weekend as my "beater" TWS set.  My primary use would be biking (trail not road) where I don't need ANC but do enjoy good sound.  Seems like these are going to be hard to beat for $99.  Anyone who has owned both this and the MTW comment on whether fit is an issue?  I had no problems with the fit of the MTW2.  Thanks.  Anything else out there in at $99 that can hang with these for sound?


Ordered as well but won't arrive until next week. Think the part in ear looks to be same shape as MTW2. Just the outside seems boxy.


----------



## clerkpalmer

Canabuc said:


> Ordered as well but won't arrive until next week. Think the part in ear looks to be same shape as MTW2. Just the outside seems boxy.


Just noticed no IP rating. Hmm. Bummer


----------



## Canabuc

clerkpalmer said:


> Just noticed no IP rating. Hmm. Bummer


For 100$ I am not buying for exercise but for more listening at home.

Fiil T1pro would be great exercise choice. Great sound super light secure fit ipx5 and 60bucks


----------



## cqtek

mbk said:


> Wow these look very interesting. I’ve never heard of a piezoelectric ceramic driver before. Response curve is a little scary for me. Do the mids sound very recessed? I’d like to see more reviews of these.



As you can see from the graph, these are U-V IEMS, I can't fool you there. The bass feels very deep, but its tendency towards sub-bass frees up the mids, as usual. But don't expect midrange in the front, at least in their first half. I have to analyse them in depth. Give me time and I'll write a review about them.



smith said:


> Do they have good volume/loudness ...my big issue with a lot of TWS. On the box they mention class A Amp but is this just marketing...



That is another issue about which I am always concerned. So much so that I have a Bluetooth receiver/transmitter for volume gain connected to a DAC via its line input. The bad thing is that these things are usually not very reliable in terms of audio quality.
But I can say that their power is superior to other TWS I own and I no longer need to set my smartphone or my HiBy R3 Pro to maximum volume. But don't expect it to be a beast either.


----------



## busski

Just got my Kef Mu3.

Overall I’m very impressed.

A few initial observations:

Overall finish:  better than I expected. They look a little plasticy In the pictures. The earbuds themselves feel very solid although they are quite light which is good. They are also smaller than expected and don’t stick out as much as I would’ve thought they would. Overall only a tiny bit of Frankenstein look but fairly unobtrusive in the ear. 8/10

The case is a lint magnet but overall solid and snaps shut with a nice click. Shape is odd, and wish it were a bit thinner, but it passes the jeans pocket test. The hinge looks a little flimsy but overall build quality is solid. Earbuds attach solidly and make a clean connection every time. 7/10

Fit:  A deeper insertion earbud, which is great for getting a good seal with my big ear canal. Overall seal is better than my Jabra, APP, Melomania 1, and Melomania Touch (returned). In fact it’s the best seal I’ve gotten in a TW, and is close to what I get with my JH13 and JH16. I’d say 80-90% as good which is amazing.

Once inserted they disappear as the body is quite light with the exception of that little tickle you get from deep insertion. Definitely reminiscent of old etymotics.   10/10

User interface: no app but does not seem needed. The buttons are easy to use and a light touch. Easy to switch ANC off. Buttons are angled so you can push up more than in to use which means less of an ear squash than my Jabras and way less than the melomania 1. 8/10 

Sound: wow. just wow. Strong bass but not at the expense of clarity. Super wide soundstage. Highs come through nicely with great timing. Definitely a bit of a midrange hole. I haven enjoyed herbie Hancock headhunters as much on TW headphones. Also acoustic sounds stellar.  Sound signature is definitely Kef, as I used to have the Kef r3 stand mounts and these evoke the same feeling. Far exceed what APP and Jabra elite 65t can do. Melomania 1 has a much brighter sound but bass less compelling and soundstage has nothing on these. Volume levels are decent but wish it would go up just one more click to 11.  9/10

more later.


----------



## clerkpalmer

busski said:


> Just got my Kef Mu3.
> 
> Overall I’m very impressed.
> 
> ...


Thanks. I held off on these today waiting for more impressions. Would love to know if you have heard mw07, mtw, Gemini, falcon pro or Grado to compare. The kef are well priced relatively speaking.


----------



## clerkpalmer

Whelp I guess the Gemini are going to have to go back to crutchfield. Another day and a dead battery on one side despite a charged case. This can’t happen. Nothing more annoying than grabbing for them and having them no working. Too bad. I prefer the sound to the Noble Falcon. Looks like Kef will be next in line.


----------



## busski

clerkpalmer said:


> Thanks. I held off on these today waiting for more impressions. Would love to know if you have heard mw07, mtw, Gemini, falcon pro or Grado to compare. The kef are well priced relatively speaking.


I had the MW07 and couldn’t get a good seal so returned. Can’t really judge sound because of that. Haven’t listened to the others.


----------



## DJ XtAzY

busski said:


> Just got my Kef Mu3.
> 
> Overall I’m very impressed.
> 
> ...


How do the vocals sound on these? I'm debating on whether I want to get the Samsung Galaxy Buds Pro (since I have a Samsung phone), the Grado GT220, and now Kef. I don't really care about ANC as much as bass and vocals.


----------



## busski

DJ XtAzY said:


> How do the vocals sound on these? I'm debating on whether I want to get the Samsung Galaxy Buds Pro (since I have a Samsung phone), the Grado GT220, and now Kef. I don't really care about ANC as much as bass and vocals.


Been listening to Celeste's new album. She's got a raspy voice with a natural swing in the delivery that the Kef does a nice job capturing.   Detail is very good.  Overall, though vocals are a little bit more laid back when i compare head to head to my JH16s.  If I go to something like queen of the night's aria from the magic flute it's precise and detailed but there's just a little something missing. The comparison with the JH16 isn't exactly fair, admittedly. I've found it does better with male voices.  Tom Petty's free falling is right in the sweet spot. As is Orville Peck's Dead of Night.


----------



## Luke Skywalker

busski said:


> Just got my Kef Mu3.
> 
> Overall I’m very impressed.
> 
> ...


Thanks dude!  Just ordered them.


----------



## diimaan (Feb 19, 2021)

clerkpalmer said:


> Thanks. I held off on these today waiting for more impressions. Would love to know if you have heard mw07, mtw, Gemini, falcon pro or Grado to compare. The kef are well priced relatively speaking.


I do not have any of these mentioned but my other TWS are

Bomaker SiFi - II

Haylou T16

Nuarl N6 Pro

Sabbat E12 Ultra
Sabbat X12 Ultra

Samsung Galaxy Buds Plus

Shanling MTW100

Of all the buds I would rate them like Mu3 > Galaxy Buds Plus > N6P > Shanling

N6P are good but Buds Plus and Mu3 are little less fatiguing as I would go on non stop listening sessions for 6-7 hours!

The opening guitar bit on Chris Cornell's You Know My Name never felt this better on any of the TWS I have listened so far when compared to Mu3!

*Edit: *Not a big fan of country but I do listen to few albums such as Raising Sand especially because of Alisson's vocals. Not sure it is completely a country album as it was a collab between Krauss and Robert Plant.
They sound great with Mu3

Sabbat are bass monsters which I am not a big fan of!
Haylou I got it mainly because of it's outdoor mode which cuts out the wind noise completely while biking/running! I feel it has kinda veiled sound!

I also have the wired/wireless headset Mobius and Sennheiser HD25!

The music I listen to mostly are Led Zeppelin, Pink Floyd, Soundgarden, Audioslave, Linkin Park, Rammstein ... to name a few


----------



## clerkpalmer

diimaan said:


> I do not have any of these mentioned but my other TWS are
> 
> Bomaker SiFi - II
> 
> ...


Can they hang with mobius?


----------



## diimaan

clerkpalmer said:


> Can they hang with mobius?


I use mine wired 100% so it is no competition


----------



## dweaver

Well, I ended up buying the WF-1000XM3 at their $199CAD sale price. I was going to buy the CX400BT but the store that had the pair I bought online turned out to be stolen when I got there. So I asked if they could give me the Sony's sale price that ended yesterday and they agreed.

So far I am really enjoying the sound of them (the bit I heard) as I am fully charging them at the moment. I will post some impressions later. But I think they are going to offer a really nice alternative signature to the AZ70. Might end up just keeping the two and start selling off some of my other BT gear.


----------



## monsieurfromag3

Luke Skywalker said:


> Thanks dude!  Just ordered them.


You’re in for a treat, detail retrieval and texture on vocals is amazing. Woodkid’s most minute inflexions and subtle breathing are really something on the Mu3.


----------



## LordToneeus

busski said:


> Just got my Kef Mu3.
> 
> Overall I’m very impressed.
> 
> ...





busski said:


> “that little tickle you get from deep insertion”


*snicker*

All right, all right, I’m sorry! Lol. Back to TWS...

i gave Melomania Touch another go after giving them a few weeks of revision. I ordered the white this time, and had zero issues until yesterday morning when the left bud would not pair with the right until I ultimately had to factory reset them. So far, that has been an anomaly (though at the time an extremely frustrating one) and I’m going to keep them.

BTW, I had to use my Fiil T1X yesterday in a pinch (left home on an errand without the MT), and boy do they still sound good to me. Fit and fit still satisfy. I’ve been tempted to pick up the T1 Pro’s, but having tried the Earfun Free Pro and returned them for the relatively disappointing sound, I’m a bit gun shy.


----------



## 543293

FIIL's been laying on the low for a while. Maybe some half ways or so through the year I bet they'll be releasing a successor to the T1 series with aptX and better ANC design.


----------



## Canabuc

LordToneeus said:


> *snicker*
> 
> All right, all right, I’m sorry! Lol. Back to TWS...
> 
> ...


The pros if you use the app can be EQ'd and can sound really good. Great pair for price.
ANC not as bad as reported of you get good fit.


----------



## kolbo

busski said:


> Just got my Kef Mu3.
> 
> Overall I’m very impressed.
> 
> ...


Thoughts about the quality of the ANC and Ambient Mode?


----------



## busski

kolbo said:


> Thoughts about the quality of the ANC and Ambient Mode?


Ambient mode is quite effective. Given the strong passive isolation I found myself needing it while walking downtown yesterday. ANC is OK, not super impressive. When combined with good passive isolation it more than suits my needs.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

Well, was hoping to provide at least some initial impressions on the CX400BT, but whichever UPS driver was supposed to deliver it yesterday decided they didn't want to finish their job. Not only that but they went back into the tracking and deleted any mention of my order being out for delivery. Couldn't talk to a person via UPS support (they make it literally impossible) and Sennheiser's representative was less than helpful. Malicious as it may sound, maybe there's a reason their CS division is tanking. Maybe it has to do with post-sales support.

So I impulse-purchased a pair of MW07 GO in retaliation. If they get here before the Sennheisers do, I'm just going to reject delivery on the Senns.

Really bummed about it considering I already gifted the LA2Ps to my son expecting those to come in. Oh well.


----------



## Enn Jott

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Well, was hoping to provide at least some initial impressions on the CX400BT, but whichever UPS driver was supposed to deliver it yesterday decided they didn't want to finish their job. Not only that but they went back into the tracking and deleted any mention of my order being out for delivery. Couldn't talk to a person via UPS support (they make it literally impossible) and Sennheiser's representative was less than helpful. Malicious as it may sound, maybe there's a reason their CS division is tanking. Maybe it has to do with post-sales support.
> 
> So I impulse-purchased a pair of MW07 GO in retaliation. If they get here before the Sennheisers do, I'm just going to reject delivery on the Senns.
> 
> Really bummed about it considering I already gifted the LA2Ps to my son expecting those to come in. Oh well.


Just to be clear - you called sennheiser support because the delivery guy didn't make it? I mean you probably know that they have a lot lot of more stuff to deliver atm, for people making impulse-purchases, like you. And thinking Sennheiser is looking to part with one of their devisions because of that is ridiculous.

I don't want to sound mean or something but I think you should put things into a broader perspective, just like you probably do with headphones. Let us know what you think once your tws arrive. At least you get to compare them to each other. That's actually pretty good!


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

Enn Jott said:


> Just to be clear - you called sennheiser support because the delivery guy didn't make it? I mean you probably know that they have a lot lot of more stuff to deliver atm, for people making impulse-purchases, like you. And thinking Sennheiser is looking to part with one of their devisions because of that is ridiculous.
> 
> I don't want to sound mean or something but I think you should put things into a broader perspective, just like you probably do with headphones. Let us know what you think once your tws arrive. At least you get to compare them to each other. That's actually pretty good!


When I spent about 45 minutes trying to reach a person at UPS and ultimately failed, calling the company I purchased from was the next logical step.

I don't give any company credit they haven't earned. If I make a purchase, I expect my product in a reasonable time. If they can't deliver in a reasonable timeframe, I consider that unreasonable behavior in the transaction. If you, the customer, allow these companies to do whatever they want with your money before you have your product, you are enabling that behavior.

Look, even Senn vets don't like where the company has gone and I'm just saying I can see why. If they knew something like this happened 10 years ago, they would have jumped through hoops to make it right. This CS rep couldn't care less. You don't inspire confidence in a consumer when you show compete apathy for their concerns. Sennheiser showed compete apathy for my concern, so I will not reward them with my money. It's as simple as that. Whether I'm one of a number of other customers is irrelevant.

More of you should be willing to put up fights like this.


----------



## bladefd (Feb 20, 2021)

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Well, was hoping to provide at least some initial impressions on the CX400BT, but whichever UPS driver was supposed to deliver it yesterday decided they didn't want to finish their job. Not only that but they went back into the tracking and deleted any mention of my order being out for delivery. Couldn't talk to a person via UPS support (they make it literally impossible) and Sennheiser's representative was less than helpful. Malicious as it may sound, maybe there's a reason their CS division is tanking. Maybe it has to do with post-sales support.
> 
> So I impulse-purchased a pair of MW07 GO in retaliation. If they get here before the Sennheisers do, I'm just going to reject delivery on the Senns.
> 
> Really bummed about it considering I already gifted the LA2Ps to my son expecting those to come in. Oh well.


When I reached out to sennheiser in 2018, they replied within 15 minutes to my inquiry on momentum 2 wireless.

I emailed them in December 2020 concerning cx400bt, I never got a reply (just got assigned ticket number), and I ended up returning the cx400bt because my 30 days were up. I still don't have a reply, but I have moved on already. Sennheiser's customer support has fallen off the cliff in just a couple years. I have a feeling they may have outsourced their customer support.


----------



## monsieurfromag3

kolbo said:


> Thoughts about the quality of the ANC and Ambient Mode?


I found both a joke. I switched on Ambient and asked my wife to talk to me and couldn’t make out a word she was saying. Passive noise cancellation, comfort and fit are excellent, so that ANC does not make the slightest difference for me - at least there’s no one mode where music sounds better, the switch is transparent.


----------



## dweaver

Well it didn't take long to see why the complaint about the WF-1000XM3 not being secure. The included tips just don't work great. The foam ones are neat but make them insecure and the other tips are NOT Sony's hybrid tips and have similar slipping issues. Fortunately I have several pairs of real hybrid tips from other Sony headphones. I don't understand why Sony keeps trying to go away from these tips. They are one of their best product designs as they are super comfy and the grip in the ear often getting pulled inside out when being removed.

With the large Sony hybrid tips these just stay in place and are super comfy. I may buy a cheap pair of wire buds just to get a new pack of tips or hunt down a new pack of actually Sony tips if I can find some.

Setting the tips issue aside I do like how these sound. It's a great tuning out of the box. They are slightly warmer than the AZ70 and have a very easy to listen signature. Strangely enough I think the AZ70 goes deeper into the sub bass region but this may be more about the slightly elevated midbass masking the sub bass. For several genres that added midbass is nice though. Some rock and jazz sound better with the added warmth for example. They are not as bass heavy as the XB700 though which for me is a good thing as I found it a bit to bass heavy for my tastes. I also appreciate they are not as dark sounding as the WH-1000XM3 which was just a bit to dark sounding for me.

I like the Sony app as well, how the EQ options work a bit stronger than the AZ70 apps EQ which is very mild in comparison even when you crank the values manually. The sliders also work easily and reliably. I did turn off the adaptive feature though as I found it very distracting. I am also not sure I hear anything different using DSEE HX so may turn it off.

i will see how I feel after a few more days but so far I am enjoying the sound quality and feel like I have solved the comfort issue secure feeling issue.


----------



## Luke Skywalker

monsieurfromag3 said:


> You’re in for a treat, detail retrieval and texture on vocals is amazing. Woodkid’s most minute inflexions and subtle breathing are really something on the Mu3.


Awesome dude I might rock some Norah Jones or maybe Joss Stone.  Can’t wait to get them!


----------



## Luke Skywalker

monsieurfromag3 said:


> I found both a joke. I switched on Ambient and asked my wife to talk to me and couldn’t make out a word she was saying. Passive noise cancellation, comfort and fit are excellent, so that ANC does not make the slightest difference for me - at least there’s no one mode where music sounds better, the switch is transparent.


No need for ambient mode here. I put on headphones so I don’t have to listen to my wife haha


----------



## bronco1015

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Well, was hoping to provide at least some initial impressions on the CX400BT, but whichever UPS driver was supposed to deliver it yesterday decided they didn't want to finish their job. Not only that but they went back into the tracking and deleted any mention of my order being out for delivery. Couldn't talk to a person via UPS support (they make it literally impossible) and Sennheiser's representative was less than helpful. Malicious as it may sound, maybe there's a reason their CS division is tanking. Maybe it has to do with post-sales support.
> 
> So I impulse-purchased a pair of MW07 GO in retaliation. If they get here before the Sennheisers do, I'm just going to reject delivery on the Senns.
> 
> Really bummed about it considering I already gifted the LA2Ps to my son expecting those to come in. Oh well.


your experience with UPS is like so many of mine with fedex. hopefully things get sorted out asap.


----------



## dweaver (Feb 20, 2021)

I laugh when I see courier complaints. I live in Canada and even in major cities we live with courier issues at least several times a year. I live in Calgary which is close to one of the Amazon's warehouses and we suddenly can get same day or next delivery something unheard of 3 years ago. I am used to waiting 7 - 10 days and even then having delays outside of the couriers notices. In Canada we just expect it and realize it's not something the seller can control. Oh and did I mention it is crazy expensive to boot! Especially if I as an individual want to ship something to someone. Hell when I sell something through the sales forums I often lose $20 in shipping costs alone... I sent a headphone to someone down in the states and paid almost $100 in shipping and that was just to the US! The only good news in that instance is the customer insisted on UPS and wanted extra careful packaging ($1000 wood headphone...) So we split the cost of shipping.

Bottom line is frustration about shipping is universal and it's as frustrating for the seller as it is for the buyer LOL.


----------



## kolbo

Luke Skywalker said:


> No need for ambient mode here. I put on headphones so I don’t have to listen to my wife haha


Sadly most of my listening time is while cooking, cleaning etc. I have to be able to hear my wife and kids...


----------



## dweaver

Well tried the WF-1000XM3 while doing AB excercises and had one fall out right near the end, so they definitely are not a good option for sweatgenerating excercises LOL. Great music while working out though LOL.

To be fair my AZ70 have fallen out due to sweat as well. Might just relate the XB700 for heavy sweat activity. Or maybe see if I can find some wings that might work...


----------



## CocaCola15

https://www.tomsguide.com/news/sennheiser-could-offer-custom-fit-earbuds-the-airpods-pro-cant-beat

Maybe someone else posted this. Found it interesting, having once owned a pair of JH5s. Loved them, but alas one of them died after 8 great years.


----------



## chinmie

dweaver said:


> Well it didn't take long to see why the complaint about the WF-1000XM3 not being secure. The included tips just don't work great. The foam ones are neat but make them insecure and the other tips are NOT Sony's hybrid tips and have similar slipping issues. Fortunately I have several pairs of real hybrid tips from other Sony headphones. I don't understand why Sony keeps trying to go away from these tips. They are one of their best product designs as they are super comfy and the grip in the ear often getting pulled inside out when being removed.
> 
> With the large Sony hybrid tips these just stay in place and are super comfy. I may buy a cheap pair of wire buds just to get a new pack of tips or hunt down a new pack of actually Sony tips if I can find some.
> 
> ...



I also settle with Sony Hybrid tips on my XM3, the combination of the relatively short profile of the tips and the gummy silicone works great for it. 
other users of the XM3s said that xelastecs also work great, but i haven't tested them myself. 

i never use mine for sport, mainly because i have other TWS that work better for that situation. if only Sony provides it with some sort of fins or hooks, it might be more reliable for sport. other method that works is wearing a beanie over the XM3 to hold it in place. 

i use it under a buff/balaclava when using it with a helmet for riding as a rumble noise suppressor.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

No luck with receiving the Senns today. Ended up ordering a set of Earfun Free Pro as an impulse buy. Considering there's a 10% coupon on Amazon (and a 20% one for their site, I guess), seemed like a no-brainer on price alone, though I know I'm going to wish it had an app. Should arrive tomorrow.


----------



## 543293

FIIL users should give this preset more of a listen—pretty classy bass and works for any kind of track.


----------



## Canabuc

dweaver said:


> Well it didn't take long to see why the complaint about the WF-1000XM3 not being secure. The included tips just don't work great. The foam ones are neat but make them insecure and the other tips are NOT Sony's hybrid tips and have similar slipping issues. Fortunately I have several pairs of real hybrid tips from other Sony headphones. I don't understand why Sony keeps trying to go away from these tips. They are one of their best product designs as they are super comfy and the grip in the ear often getting pulled inside out when being removed.
> 
> With the large Sony hybrid tips these just stay in place and are super comfy. I may buy a cheap pair of wire buds just to get a new pack of tips or hunt down a new pack of actually Sony tips if I can find some.
> 
> ...


Mine came in and oddly enough with all the buds testing I have done, they seem more comfortable and secure then I remember the first go. I amusing the stock tips with large on one side and medium the other.
Wouldn't use them to work out but for everyday listening or going where I need ANC or ambient these are really good!
The EQ really delivers sonic changes unlike the Sennheiser or the Technics which made little change for me.

These and the buds pro have the best treble of any tws I have heard.



This track about a minute in you hear cymbals hit  for about 30 seconds. With Samsung and Sony it crisp detailed and resonant.
Every other earbud seems to lose the definition including the MTW2.
The bass is very good but Jabra and Fiil do have better sub bass.

I am still figuring out the EQ settings as to what I like best.

JBL have very nice sound too and with EQ can sound very much like Sony bit with better sub bass but that upper treble detail not as good.
Controls are identical to the sony but with ipx4 and wireless charging though the case doesn't love my charger.
Given the price of these I think I will end up keeping 1 and if I still love the Sennheiser sound will return the MTW2 for the CX00 BT.
This way for the price of the MTW2 I can get Sony and the Sennheiser. Best of both worlds.


----------



## Canabuc

Lorelock said:


> FIIL users should give this preset more of a listen—pretty classy bass and works for any kind of track.


I actually prefer the new age though it is cutoff and just says new. Or I have my own custom EQ changes too.


----------



## Monkeytofu (Feb 20, 2021)

> jant71 said:
> 
> 
> > Edifier GM5 gaming buds with LL...


I bought the GM5s because I wanted to try and see if they work as PC gaming earbuds.

They come with a special gaming mode (which makes a difference while gaming) and compared to most wireless earbuds they're good. I wouldn't say they're audiophile quality. Unfortunately, the main thing I wanted them for was to use them for gaming on my laptop, but they don't have the FastStream Codec, so while they work perfectly for mobile gaming and provide good positional audio and an amazing microphone, you can't use the nice microphone while PC gaming.

They don't provide much audio sealing, but they're comfortable and have some active noise cancelling you can turn off and on. I actually like that I can hear, I find myself yelling wearing big headphones.

If you own a separate mic that's good, but if you wanted a no wires set up, which this kind of headset would be for, it's not optimal. Really unfortunate, I've talked to some of the edifier people on Aliexpress about it. Hopefully, they'll use fast stream with the next iteration for PC gamers, but for mobile gamers, I think this is the best you can get when it comes to wireless, no delay audio.

Creative sells some in-ear monitors with FastStream but my ear canal cannot handle even the smallest of silicone/IEM type earbuds.


----------



## Canabuc

Any JBL club pro plus users have some EQ settings to share?


----------



## turbobb (Feb 20, 2021)

Been looking for an all-in-one solution to have decent quality music and mic for Zoom calls on PC. However, PC creates the separate profiles with Headphone/Headset forcing one to use the latter when mic is on and kicking it into mono. Apparently the FastStream codec is the solution and while I have Avantree's DG60 adapter, I'm not aware of any TWS that supports this. Just curious if anyone facing similar issue found a solution? For now, I've resorted to using my Comica wireless mic in conjunction w/whatever TWS I'm using.

EDIT: @Monkeytofu - meant to reply to your post - looks like we're after the same thing but not sure it exists atm.


----------



## darveniza

Have spent the past week with a set of TWS

Grado GT200
Sennheiser Momentum 2
Ultimate Ear Fits
Cambridge Audio Melomania 
Noble Audio Falcon Pro
Sony WF 1000XM3*
Master Dynamics TW07 Plus*
(*Had to stop using due to fit issues)

Have other TWS like Samsung Buds Pro, Pixel, Huawei Freebuds 3 Pro but consider these more for work and have a little of other non music related features

Just to share

Sound Ranking 

1- Grado
2- Cambridge Audio (Latest FW)
3-UE Fits (latest FW)
4- MTW2
5- Noble 
6-MD
7 Sony

Just created a a Playlist with mixture of music from different Genres, including from the 70's heavy in guitars to Hip Hop. Placed it on shuffle play as I wanted to avoid bias and was looking for no doubt instruments,  punch but also not having  to use eq or adjust sound. Use at 50% and stock Tuning (no eq). Noble was bass was strong but was present in all tunes so it became a bit much, but with 2 BAs it did well with Highs and mids

Comfort and Stability 

1- Cambridge 
2- UE Fits
3-MTW2 and Grado
4- Noble
5- MD 
6-Sony

Walking, normal jog , jumping and mat type exercises 

App

1-Cambridge
2-MTW2
3- Noble
4- UE
5-Sony
Grado has no app 

Ease of use, features, eq and some other basics like FW updates

Best Battery Performance and Connection Speed to Phone

1- Cambridge (beast)
2- Grado ( no app allows for reduce battery consumption) 
3-MTW2
4-UE Fits
5-Sony and MD
6- Noble (painful) 

How quick it connected after taking out of case and how long It took me to get 50% and 25%

Controls TWS

1-Cambridge 
2-Grado
3- MTW2
4-UE Fits
5-Noble
6-MD
7-Sony

I was looking at accuracy for changing  songs,, pause /play,play, while walking. Some TWS like UE Fits is limited on controls.Cambridge was best as I think they used a larger sensor and TWS surface could not be missed even if jogging 


Price vs Performance 

1-Cambridge
2- Grado
3- MTW2
4-UE Fits
5- MD
6-Sony
7- Noble


The biggest discovery for me during the evaluation was the Cambridge Audio Melomania, wow!!!!!


----------



## soullinker20

haven't updated my UE Fits yet. does the latest firmware update have changes is sound quality?


----------



## Monkeytofu (Feb 21, 2021)

turbobb said:


> Been looking for an all-in-one solution to have decent quality music and mic for Zoom calls on PC. However, PC creates the separate profiles with Headphone/Headset forcing one to use the latter when mic is on and kicking it into mono. Apparently the FastStream codec is the solution and while I have Avantree's DG60 adapter, I'm not aware of any TWS that supports this. Just curious if anyone facing similar issue found a solution? For now, I've resorted to using my Comica wireless mic in conjunction w/whatever TWS I'm using.
> 
> EDIT: @Monkeytofu - meant to reply to your post - looks like we're after the same thing but not sure it exists atm.



There are some solutions, but like faststream, they're all kind of cobbled together... Jabra has this dongle they sell that allows you to use their TWS earbuds during zoom calls and I've heard good things. But even the dongle has versions that are"optimized" for Skype or Microsoft Teams. Jabra earbuds also use the IEM style tips, which unfortunately for me is a no-go. 

According to this list the KZ wireless earbuds you see on Aliexpress also have faststream. However, they don't support AptxLL, which makes them a bit useless for gaming, but may work for your situation?

You'd think with almost 2 decades of Bluetooth, this wouldn't be an issue. However, I think this more of an issue with Windows/MacOS and how they handle Bluetooth because it doesn't seem to be an issue at all when it comes to IOS and Android from my tests. People were actually surprised how clear my mic was on games.

Edit: This Jabra TWS set seems to be "the" solution but you're looking at 180-200 USD from what I can see on Amazon in the states. about 428 CAD for me. Reviews are mixed too.


----------



## TK33

turbobb said:


> Been looking for an all-in-one solution to have decent quality music and mic for Zoom calls on PC. However, PC creates the separate profiles with Headphone/Headset forcing one to use the latter when mic is on and kicking it into mono. Apparently the FastStream codec is the solution and while I have Avantree's DG60 adapter, I'm not aware of any TWS that supports this. Just curious if anyone facing similar issue found a solution? For now, I've resorted to using my Comica wireless mic in conjunction w/whatever TWS I'm using.
> 
> EDIT: @Monkeytofu - meant to reply to your post - looks like we're after the same thing but not sure it exists atm.


I use my phone + Galaxy Buds Live for the "call" part of a "Zoom call".  If there is an actual dialin, you can enter the participant ID or the code they give you in the audio section while also logged in on uh our computer and they will link up your phone (audio) and computer (video). It is pretty easy to switch between computer audio and phone audio.  It will mute computer audio when you do this and just use your phone so you dont get that awful feedback.  I noticed recently that you can usually do the same with WebEx.

Probably not the solution you were looking for but I usually find phone audio to just work better for these calls anyway.


----------



## dj24

turbobb said:


> Been looking for an all-in-one solution to have decent quality music and mic for Zoom calls on PC. However, PC creates the separate profiles with Headphone/Headset forcing one to use the latter when mic is on and kicking it into mono. Apparently the FastStream codec is the solution and while I have Avantree's DG60 adapter, I'm not aware of any TWS that supports this. Just curious if anyone facing similar issue found a solution? For now, I've resorted to using my Comica wireless mic in conjunction w/whatever TWS I'm using.
> 
> EDIT: @Monkeytofu - meant to reply to your post - looks like we're after the same thing but not sure it exists atm.





Monkeytofu said:


> There are some solutions, but like faststream, they're all kind of cobbled together... Jabra has this dongle they sell that allows you to use their TWS earbuds during zoom calls and I've heard good things. But even the dongle has versions that are"optimized" for Skype or Microsoft Teams. Jabra earbuds also use the IEM style tips, which unfortunately for me is a no-go.
> 
> According to this list the KZ wireless earbuds you see on Aliexpress also have faststream. However, they don't support AptxLL, which makes them a bit useless for gaming, but may work for your situation?
> 
> ...



https://www.reddit.com/r/Jabra/comments/f6jrpa/using_jabra_elite_75t_as_bluetooth_headset_on/

I went ahead with the Jabra Link 380 USB-C and haven't looked back since then.  Works great with all my VOIP work calls and most TWS except Samsung.  Unfortunately this the best we can do until APTX Voice which was announced in CES 2020 starts appearing in future TWS devices.


----------



## dweaver (Feb 21, 2021)

Canabuc said:


> Mine came in and oddly enough with all the buds testing I have done, they seem more comfortable and secure then I remember the first go. I amusing the stock tips with large on one side and medium the other.
> Wouldn't use them to work out but for everyday listening or going where I need ANC or ambient these are really good!
> The EQ really delivers sonic changes unlike the Sennheiser or the Technics which made little change for me.
> 
> ...



Neat song, I actually hear that cymbal more clearly on the AZ70 but I know what you mean regarding the 1000XM3 as it also has great clarity while having more warmth. The contrast is interesting because the 1000XM3 is more lush with thee piano sounding darker and the vocals being more rich, everything a bit more intimate. The AZ70 on the other hand has a brighter piano and more airy sound with vocals slightly higher pitched and detailed. They are both distinctly different and yet both sound cohesive and whole to my ears.

The AZ70 represent the best of a mid treble centric signature with tight but deep bass and the 1000XM3 represents the best of a bass mid centric sound with excellent treble extension. Both avoiding the the pitfalls of those signatures. Ie the AZ70 avoids sibilance and the 1000XM3 avoids being overly dark and losing detail.

But given only one choice for the song I prefer the 1000XM3 because the piano just has that extra decay and vitality plus the vocals have a bit more authority.


----------



## Peddler (Feb 21, 2021)

I'm beginning to think that I'm the only one who consistently gets a good fit with the Sony WF1000XM3's. I absolutely love these headphones - and still feel that they're amongst the best TWS of there.

I also have the Apollo Bold's, Lypertek Tevi, Mavin Air-X and the iBasso CF01/IT00 combo (which sound utterly superb by the way).

The anc on the Sony's works brilliantly when it comes to filtering out the traffic noise outside my window and doesn't have any significant effect on the sound quality.

For late night listening at very low volume levels I use the Apollo's as they're excellent for low volume listening (anc turned off as it introduces additional noise). I personally think that these are the best sounding headphones I've ever heard when it comes to listening at very low volume levels. 

I also have the WH1000XM2 full size headphones which I also love their sound quality and character - I guess I'm a Sony fanboy.


----------



## FYLegend

My final review of the Earfun Free Pro: https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/earfun-free-pro.24971/reviews#review-25340


----------



## BigZ12

darveniza said:


> The biggest discovery for me during the evaluation was the Cambridge Audio Melomania, wow!!!!!


Did they fix the connection issues with a firmware? (3 of 5 stars at What Hifi because of bad connection)
Of course there's no place to buy the Melomania Touch here in Norway...(not possible to buy from Amazon either (us/uk))


----------



## Canabuc

dweaver said:


> Neat song, I actually hear that cymbal more clearly on the AZ70 but I know what you mean regarding the 1000XM3 as it also has great clarity while having more warmth. The contrast is interesting because the 1000XM3 is more lush with thee piano sounding darker and the vocals being more rich, everything a bit more intimate. The AZ70 on the other hand has a brighter piano and more airy sound with vocals slightly higher pitched and detailed. They are both distinctly different and yet both sound cohesive and whole to my ears.
> 
> The AZ70 represent the best of a mid treble centric signature with tight but deep bass and the 1000XM3 represents the best of a bass mid centric sound with excellent treble extension. Both avoiding the the pitfalls of those signatures. Ie the AZ70 avoids sibilance and the 1000XM3 avoids being overly dark and losing detail.
> 
> But given only one choice for the song I prefer the 1000XM3 because the piano just has that extra decay and vitality plus the vocals have a bit more authority.


I don’t have the technics anymore to test with that song. But those cymbals have best detail and clarity on the Sony and buds pro.
overall however I am enjoying the sound on the Sony and JBL a lot. The Samsung’s I like too but the treble end of spectrum is a bit much. Opposite of what the jabra was for me.  Sennheiser and those 2 are best overall sounding for me. mTW2 are warmer overall and a bit more laid back but with best soundstage. JBL more neutral but has such eq you can tailor sound the most. Sony is unique in that it is a bit warm like the Jabra but the bass doesn’t overwhelm the kids and the treble is very good.

Going to be hard deciding on one to keep. I will Decide between Sony and jbl as they both are 100 to 130 cheaper than the MTW2 and the money saved can pay for the CX400 model to still give me the sennheiser sound but without features.

This will maybe come down to things like comfort fit and ANC ambient modes as the JBL and Sony sound are very close and each has some features that are better.


----------



## Canabuc

Peddler said:


> I'm beginning to think that I'm the only one who consistently gets a good fit with the Sony WF1000XM3's. I absolutely love these headphones - and still feel that they're amongst the best TWS of there.
> 
> I also have the Apollo Bold's, Lypertek Tevi, Mavin Air-X and the iBasso CF01/IT00 combo (which sound utterly superb by the way).
> 
> ...


Which tips you using on the Sony. I am finding fit and comfort much better than when I first got them. Just don’t think I would exercise with them given no ip rating and their bulk will lead to them moving more in my ears than a lighter earbud or one with stability wing.


----------



## bronco1015

dweaver said:


> I laugh when I see courier complaints. I live in Canada and even in major cities we live with courier issues at least several times a year. I live in Calgary which is close to one of the Amazon's warehouses and we suddenly can get same day or next delivery something unheard of 3 years ago. I am used to waiting 7 - 10 days and even then having delays outside of the couriers notices. In Canada we just expect it and realize it's not something the seller can control. Oh and did I mention it is crazy expensive to boot! Especially if I as an individual want to ship something to someone. Hell when I sell something through the sales forums I often lose $20 in shipping costs alone... I sent a headphone to someone down in the states and paid almost $100 in shipping and that was just to the US! The only good news in that instance is the customer insisted on UPS and wanted extra careful packaging ($1000 wood headphone...) So we split the cost of shipping.
> 
> Bottom line is frustration about shipping is universal and it's as frustrating for the seller as it is for the buyer LOL.


I hear ya. the problems for me come up because i'm on the boarder of 3 cities. Now i know that for certain sites i have to use 1 address, for UPS 1 for fedex another etc. Some of them are better at managing the madness than others lol.


----------



## bronco1015

The Melomania Touch is back on Amazon U>S. Could have been for a while but i haven't looked recently with all the issues. has anyone bought or repurchased them? debating on giving them a shot.


----------



## Canabuc

darveniza said:


> Have spent the past week with a set of TWS
> 
> Grado GT200
> Sennheiser Momentum 2
> ...


Haven't tried some of those but disagree on battery life which is great on Sony's. You must have used with DSEE on which cuts battery in half and doesn't add anything if the source material is good enough.


----------



## howdy

Peddler said:


> I'm beginning to think that I'm the only one who consistently gets a good fit with the Sony WF1000XM3's. I absolutely love these headphones - and still feel that they're amongst the best TWS of there.
> 
> I also have the Apollo Bold's, Lypertek Tevi, Mavin Air-X and the iBasso CF01/IT00 combo (which sound utterly superb by the way).
> 
> ...


I agree with you, I love everything with the XM3S. They are still my favorite of everything I have. I use the Xelastec eartips with XM3 and they never fall out or move.


----------



## Thesonofkrypton

Always said the Sony's offer the best package in the market, best ANC, best sound.  Their next iteration, I hope, should fix the fit if they've been listening to customers.


----------



## Trzystatrzy

Just got my Edifier X3. Really like build quality. Much better than TWS1. With stock tips it's too offensive, too bright. Tried with chinese foams - much better, full sound without sharp highs, but it's not comfortable to me. Then I tried Thomson Hed16. Excellent comfortable, full sound with a little too sharp highs, but acceptable. Really like it for 25 bucks.


----------



## Canabuc

Thesonofkrypton said:


> Always said the Sony's offer the best package in the market, best ANC, best sound.  Their next iteration, I hope, should fix the fit if they've been listening to customers.


Sennheiser is great too with better overall sound but worse ANC. They also have best touch controls of any tws I have tried.


----------



## Peddler

Canabuc said:


> Which tips you using on the Sony. I am finding fit and comfort much better than when I first got them. Just don’t think I would exercise with them given no ip rating and their bulk will lead to them moving more in my ears than a lighter earbud or one with stability wing.


I'm using the stock tips (silicone) as they have a deeper insertion depth. I normally get the best results from triple flange tips on other IEM's.


----------



## mbk

darveniza said:


> Have spent the past week with a set of TWS
> 
> Grado GT200
> Sennheiser Momentum 2
> ...



Great post. Thanks for this.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic (Feb 21, 2021)

It's like KZ madness all over again. GAD (do we have an acronym for that in the TWS space yet?) is in full effect.........

UE Fits on order


----------



## darveniza

Canabuc said:


> Haven't tried some of those but disagree on battery life which is great on Sony's. You must have used with DSEE on which cuts battery in half and doesn't add anything if the source material is good enough.


The battery life as I ranked them, do not mean they are terrible, just that the other models have managed a larger battery or the power usage is much more efficient.  The Sony's are using an architecture that is 3 years old .


----------



## darveniza

BigZ12 said:


> Did they fix the connection issues with a firmware? (3 of 5 stars at What Hifi because of bad connection)
> Of course there's no place to buy the Melomania Touch here in Norway...(not possible to buy from Amazon either (us/uk))


I read some reviews that had connection issues, not all onbny end. However I always update the FW prior to any use. My biggest connection issues were with the Noble


----------



## vladzakhar

darveniza said:


> Have spent the past week with a set of TWS
> 
> Grado GT200
> Sennheiser Momentum 2
> ...


----------



## vladzakhar (Feb 21, 2021)

I would disagree on Noble Falcons. I think, they have the best sound out of all on your list. At least resolution and sound stage. I have Grados on order. Will see if they will beat it.


----------



## dweaver

howdy said:


> I agree with you, I love everything with the XM3S. They are still my favorite of everything I have. I use the Xelastec eartips with XM3 and they never fall out or move.


I grabbed my Xelastec tips that came with another earphone last night and they do fit nice and snug with a bit more grip. Will be trying them through out today.

The ANC of the 1000XM3 is also a bit better than the AZ70 BTW. But I want to wait till I go for a walk to see how they handle wind.


----------



## Canabuc

darveniza said:


> The battery life as I ranked them, do not mean they are terrible, just that the other models have managed a larger battery or the power usage is much more efficient.  The Sony's are using an architecture that is 3 years old .


Except that owning the Sennheiser and the Sony,the Sony are far superior battery life wise . So I am surmising you must be using the Sony with a setting that is causing battery drain more.
Sony get 8hours no AMC and 6 with.
MTW2 get 7 without on AAC  and at 50%volume. The Volume on them are lower than other buds so most articles state at 75db listening with ANC you are lucky to get 4 hours. The Sony in same test got nearly 5.


----------



## jant71

BGVP back with the second edition of thier TWS, the Q2"s". Still can convert to wired but with MMCX and we'll see what other improvements they will have. Being a Chi-fi brand it will probably again not have an ambient function and unless they made little MMCX covers they won't have an IP rating either. Looks nice though.


----------



## dweaver

How does this look? I used the wings from a pair of Status BT Transfer but had to go back to the Sony Hybrid tip vs the Xelastic tips. Very secure and still quite comfy and the wing actually give some added protection. Going to try it for the day and see how it goes.


----------



## dweaver (Feb 21, 2021)

The wings passed the sweat slippage test on my WF-1000XM3  . Water  was dripping of my face but the IEMs sat nice and secure.

Just realized, I can't put these in the case with the wings on. So maybe not such a good idea... To bad they definitely are more secure and actually feel more comfy.


----------



## dweaver

Slipped the wings back in the Status BT Transfer and thought why not use these for working out... Maybe not true wireless but they are IPX-5 rated and they sound darn good too...

So there, got that problem solved... Lol


----------



## cqtek

tinyman392 said:


> Class A is a type of amplifier (vs B, AB, D, etc.). So if it isn’t a class A amp, then that’s pretty blatant false advertisement.


Class A refers to the fact that the entire signal is fully amplified, both positive and negative, and needs to be biased so that the entire signal is within the useful amplification range of the transistors.
I understand that a TWS headset has a Bluetooth decoder and a small amplifier stage. And that small amplifier stage can be class A, avoiding any zero-crossing distortion. Don't you think it can be like that?


----------



## clerkpalmer

vladzakhar said:


> I would disagree on Noble Falcons. I think, they have the best sound out of all on your list. At least resolution and sound stage. I have Grados on order. Will see if they will beat it.


I think the Falcons have the best resolution and technicalities but I don’t love the tonality on them.  They seem a little flat to me. Maybe I need to monkey with the EQ. Interested in your impressions on the Grado and in hearing more about the Kef. To me thus far, the Gemini still sounds best.


----------



## bladefd

bronco1015 said:


> The Melomania Touch is back on Amazon U>S. Could have been for a while but i haven't looked recently with all the issues. has anyone bought or repurchased them? debating on giving them a shot.


I use them almost daily. I was on the verge of returning them until new firmware version 1.2.3 released. I have had no issues with connection since. I use Google pixel 3 with aptx. Sound is just spectacular. Had to eq the mids/highs though by raising them especially the highs. Some might find the bass strong but for me it's perfect at neutral.

I would say it's a hybrid between cx400bt (great sound quality) and wf-1000xm3 (sound signature). Missing anc, of course, and transparency mode is a bit wavey. It requires some eq like the Sony to make mids/highs stand out (cx400bt was great out of the box without requiring eq).


----------



## miserybeforethemusic (Feb 21, 2021)

Earfun Free Pro (shortened to EFP from hereon out) just arrived. After a quick stint on the wireless charger (I'm really starting to like this thing), it was into my ears they went.

These suckers push the boundaries for what I thought a "small" TWS could be and that definitely plays towards their ability to be completely intuitive to insert and lock in place. Keep in mind that's out of what I've tried; ymmv. Size-wise, they remind me the most of a pair of KZ ZSA (for those familiar) and slightly smaller than the shell of my Noble X (and thankfully much more ergonomic). Sadly, they don't sit flush enough with the outer surface of the ear for me to consider them sleeptime buds or they'd probably be perfect for the purpose. Initial impressions on comfort are great; if you didn't have SpinFit tips to swap out on these, you'd probably still be more than happy with the assortment of included fins and tips.

Commands work easily enough on the EFP. Though I'd definitely prefer the convenience of a GUI, I'm okay with touch commands that consistently work and work these do. I like that Normal/ANC/Pass-through can all be cycled by touch on the Left ear. I _really_ like that there's virtually no time delay between when you single-tap to drop the volume and volume perceivably goes down. Might be a minor detail for some, but I am constantly adjusting which ears have buds, what the volume is, and what ambient mode I'm in, so I consider this an absolute blessing

And that sound? Oh boy. Having just popped out the MTs before I put these in, I thought I might be setting up the EFPs for an absolute smackdown. I mean there's no way the EFPs are going to hold a candle to the MTs when they're a fraction of the price...

Even though the best I can hope for is AAC (compared to aptX on the MTs), the EFP hold up surprisingly well in comparison. There's an infectious top-end sparkle that the MTs lack from being rolled off too early, which really helps the piano shine throughout Mae's _(m) (a) (e) _(Qobuz, 16/44) Extended Play. Lucid Planet's _II_ (Bandcamp, 24/48) ebbs and flows with a surprising amount of technical prowess, though some of the more complex passages in the album did fall short due to a lack in instrument separation. The extra midrange presence of the EFPs over the MTs do lend itself well to guitar tracks and I can get more complexities out of the groove of tracks like "Anamnesis", but I think I'm a little more partial to the MT's portrayal of this album as a drums-forward, Tool-alike trancefest.

If you've only got 50 USD or so to spend on a set of TWS, you could do so much worse than these. I can easily see these going into a rotating stock at the house here, so much so that I've already gifted the Liberty Air 2 Pros to my son (who in turn is gifting his LA2s to his sister...because sharing is caring). Two enthusiastic thumbs up. I really need to be working on a Soundcore Q30 review, but the EFP are going to stay in just a little longer today


----------



## darveniza

clerkpalmer said:


> I think the Falcons have the best resolution and technicalities but I don’t love the tonality on them.  They seem a little flat to me. Maybe I need to monkey with the EQ. Interested in your impressions on the Grado and in hearing more about the Kef. To me thus far, the Gemini still sounds best.


The Falcons as I stated on a previous reply had good handling of Mids and Highs but I think the bass was so prevailing or was even there when not call upon for it. That is what drove me to lower them in the Ranking. Again my Ranking is not a professional review or trying to tell anyone what to buy. Was just running  a fee notes and decided to share, can they change in a month , sure as opinions have to be open to change over time


----------



## vladzakhar

clerkpalmer said:


> I think the Falcons have the best resolution and technicalities but I don’t love the tonality on them.  They seem a little flat to me. Maybe I need to monkey with the EQ. Interested in your impressions on the Grado and in hearing more about the Kef. To me thus far, the Gemini still sounds best.


Yes, I forgot to add that Falcons need to be EQed to sound the best. Flat they sound awful. Also I would recommend using 3rd party tips. The case allowed it. I use Spin fits. Not sure what source you are using, but with Iphone via AAC the sound heavenly.  I used to have Gemini and returned them. They did sound good, but not Falcon good. I guess the hybrid of dynamic and armature drivers plus very good tuning makes them sound as good as some of wired IEms I used to own.


----------



## Canabuc

dweaver said:


> How does this look? I used the wings from a pair of Status BT Transfer but had to go back to the Sony Hybrid tip vs the Xelastic tips. Very secure and still quite comfy and the wing actually give some added protection. Going to try it for the day and see how it goes.


Does it fit in case or just add on for workouts.


----------



## dweaver

Would just have to add-on for workouts which sucks as the fin worked pretty solidly on them. I took it off and am trying the Xelastic tips for now. They are super secure but a bit itchy. Will see what I settle on.


----------



## Canabuc

dweaver said:


> Would just have to add-on for workouts which sucks as the fin worked pretty solidly on them. I took it off and am trying the Xelastic tips for now. They are super secure but a bit itchy. Will see what I settle on.


What is your ANC experience so far?


----------



## miserybeforethemusic (Feb 21, 2021)

After a couple more hours with the EFPs in, I'm starting to see some of the areas in which they had to make some sacrifices...

Transparency Mode on the EFP leaves a good amount to be desired. While I can leave the MTs in with Transparency Mode on with music playing at a decent volume, I don't have much difficulty at all making out those around me. The EFPs aren't so up to the task. Luckily, insertion and removal is pretty easy as I've had to do it quite a bit today.

Also, Noise Canceling won't do much to remove stuff in the vocal range; seems like it's really only going to serve well for droning sounds.

Connection stability's been top-notch, though. I've kept my phone plugged in on the main floor and have been able to walk throughout my house without any signal degredation.

Then again, if either of these features were dealbreakers, I don't think I'd be looking in this price category. What the EFPs lack in features, they more than make up for in terms of pure sound quality. I can safely say that the sound signature is different to something like the LA2P, favoring meat/impact/warmth over clarity. It doesn't always land; bad recordings won't come out of these pristine, especially if the treble is a little hot. Good news is that I never feel like it's anywhere close to Beyer-level fatiguing.

So far, here's the standing:
1. EFP
2. MT (until the connection stability issues are fixed)
3. LA2P
4. LA2
...
...
...
5. Drop Move - I include these because, while I technically own them, they only get used only when completely necessary. I neither enjoy the fit nor the overall sound representation on these.


----------



## bronco1015

bladefd said:


> I use them almost daily. I was on the verge of returning them until new firmware version 1.2.3 released. I have had no issues with connection since. I use Google pixel 3 with aptx. Sound is just spectacular. Had to eq the mids/highs though by raising them especially the highs. Some might find the bass strong but for me it's perfect at neutral.
> 
> I would say it's a hybrid between cx400bt (great sound quality) and wf-1000xm3 (sound signature). Missing anc, of course, and transparency mode is a bit wavey. It requires some eq like the Sony to make mids/highs stand out (cx400bt was great out of the box without requiring eq).


awesome, appreciate your comparisons. That gives me a good idea of what they sound like out of the box and of their potential with eq. I felt like i had to eq the XM3 to get mids and treble to stand out as well.


----------



## clerkpalmer

vladzakhar said:


> Yes, I forgot to add that Falcons need to be EQed to sound the best. Flat they sound awful. Also I would recommend using 3rd party tips. The case allowed it. I use Spin fits. Not sure what source you are using, but with Iphone via AAC the sound heavenly.  I used to have Gemini and returned them. They did sound good, but not Falcon good. I guess the hybrid of dynamic and armature drivers plus very good tuning makes them sound as good as some of wired IEms I used to own.


Would you mind sharing your EQ settings?


----------



## vladzakhar

clerkpalmer said:


> Would you mind sharing your EQ settings?


----------



## clerkpalmer

Cool. Thanks. Will report back.


----------



## 543293

Any users of the SpinFit 360s? Generally speaking, how does it affect the bass and treble?


----------



## Shanling

Hi, today we posted final specs for our upcoming MTW300, they are available in its own thread.

Release in April at 119 USD/Euro.

Let me know if you will have any questions, best to tag me in your post


----------



## Enn Jott

Some, including me might find this interesting -  Sony WF-1000XM4 leaked?




(Image source: Reddit via The Walkman Blog)

Smaller footprint, which seems nice as the size kept me away from the xm3s ...

Full article here


----------



## webvan

Just noticed that Rtings had posted their review of the Tozo NC9 and found them quite good. They didn't figure out you could use their clone's app to turn ANC on/off though  They quite liked them oddly enough https://www.rtings.com/headphones/reviews/tozo/nc9-truly-wireless#page-test-results


----------



## Canabuc

Lorelock said:


> Any users of the SpinFit 360s? Generally speaking, how does it affect the bass and treble?


I may be in the minority but I find that they make the bass weaker and have yet to give me a great fit. They are comfy and secure but that bendable part of the tube makes them sheets feel like the buds are loosely floating in my ears.
I have yet to make them the main tips in any of my buds though they are closest in the XM3.


----------



## tinyman392

Enn Jott said:


> Some, including me might find this interesting -  Sony WF-1000XM4 leaked?
> 
> 
> (Image source: Reddit via The Walkman Blog)
> ...



It could be the XM4, it could also be a higher-end focused headphone for audiophiles as well.  Be interesting to see what they are, if the leak is real that is.


----------



## jant71 (Feb 22, 2021)

tinyman392 said:


> It could be the XM4, it could also be a higher-end focused headphone for audiophiles as well.  Be interesting to see what they are, if the leak is real that is.


Well not really. The whole pic has it on top...








It is the XM4, just it is real or not.


----------



## webvan

Wonder what that "port" on the outside is!


----------



## jant71 (Feb 22, 2021)

webvan said:


> Wonder what that "port" on the outside is!



Possible they went aux in for a cable? Maybe that is a fancier microphone for the ANC like you see on a voice recorder? 

This here came in and case is much smaller than pics make it look...




We'll see how they are in a bit.


----------



## samandhi

jant71 said:


> Possible they went aux in for a cable? Maybe that is a fancier microphone for the ANC like you see on a voice recorder?
> 
> This here came in and case is much smaller than pics make it look...
> 
> ...


If it is for an AUX cable, I would argue they are doing another proprietary cable connection, as that doesn't look like anything I recognize. I tend to think that that is probably just as you said, another mic, but with bling.


----------



## tinyman392

jant71 said:


> Possible they went aux in for a cable? Maybe that is a fancier microphone for the ANC like you see on a voice recorder?
> 
> This here came in and case is much smaller than pics make it look...
> 
> ...



That would be a stupid place to pug a audio cable connection.  With that form factor the over ear loop is going to be more popular, but I doubt they'll off that too.  I want to say it's a microphone, but you can kind of see two holes on the top that might serve that purpose.  Unless they have an additional microphone for ANC.  It could also just simply be porting for the rear-side of the driver (or front side).


----------



## Canabuc

Having a hard time deciding between the JBL and Sony . They both sound very similar and features near identical bit with portability and Qi charging IP rating for JBL and better ANC for Sony. Thinking I should go for the ANC as that is a real differentiating factor and will likely use the Fiil for workouts.


----------



## earmonger

jant71 said:


> It is the XM4, just it is real or not.


It could just be some Photoshop nonsense too. The notebookcheck.net story pointed out there are not even regulatory filings yet. But they already have the box designed? Color me skeptical. Happy to find out I'm wrong later.


----------



## jant71

earmonger said:


> It could just be some Photoshop nonsense too. The notebookcheck.net story pointed out there are not even regulatory filings yet. But they already have the box designed? Color me skeptical. Happy to find out I'm wrong later.



Yep, that is when we have something. A box picture could be some bored dude f*cking around. April fool joke he couldn't wait for lol.


----------



## monsieurfromag3 (Feb 22, 2021)

I’m not finding the time for extended listening sessions, but for now my wife and I’s impression of the Mu3 is of a rather balanced sound with the interesting parts coming from the mids up. There’s full-bodied bass, with no excessive presence, rather smoothed out. Very high resolution in the mids, great for voices. And extended, forward treble with zing.

On the one hand it’s an exciting listen because of the depth and richness of detail. However, less exciting is the laid-back pace. The Mu3 are not excellent rhythmically, lacking a bit of punch and slam. It’s a comfortable tuning - not safe or boring, rather it sounds mature and calm. Rather like the earbuds themselves, which look gorgeous and are gloriously comfortable for her and for me, with an easy seal and impressively secure insertion.

My wife is probably going to keep them for aerial dancing on melancholy, soulful, vocal-heavy tunes, and hang on to her Nuforce Be6i (wireless but not true wireless) whose 10mm Ti and Mg coated drivers bring massive groove and hard-hitting bass for high-intensity training fueled by trap and dark electro.


----------



## samandhi

Got my Nuarl N6 Pro today and have listened to them for about an hour, so here are first impressions:

  I like the way they look. They are not too... Blingy, but don't look plain either. I like the placement of the buttons (I still like physical buttons). I will have to say, though that the buttons are so small and sensitive they might as well be touch buttons. I keep hitting them by accident, especially when inserting the buds into my ears. The buds stick out a bit far (think Bose Soundsport Free, but not as wide and tall). I love that they come with the Spinfits, as they provide the "tacky" rubber needed to stay in my ears. I am using medium on the left and small on the right. 

  With that combination (along with the wings), they will probably stay in my ears till hell freezes over. While in my ears, they are very comfortable and (so far) I don't feel any hot-spots. I can't speak to very long sessions yet, but I am not new to IEMs in general and don't think I will be feeling pain even after a long while (but who knows?). 

The first time I put them into my ears I thought they sounded like complete s***! I have never had an IEM/TWS that was SO sensitive with insertion. I can see now (from a few pages back) how someone said they sound like someone turned the bass way down on these. I changed tips and re-inserted them (they really need to go pretty deep), and low and behold the sound is much better. The bass now goes very low, and has some thump to it (even on rock songs). 

Keep in mind these are first impressions, and this may change over time (for various reasons). The good: The treble is NOT rolled off, and not quite sibilant (though JUST on the verge, especially with rock or highly compressed music). The bass is not overpowering, though boosted just a bit in the sub bass area. The mids ARE recessed, but are clear if a bit warm. Overall I like them better than most TWS I have listened to. They are similar to the Hifiman TWS600, but with more sub bass.

The bad: There is a HUGE spike in the 4k and a smaller one in the 2k area, and I have to subtract 10 db in 4k and 2 from 2k to correct for this. These areas give higher pitched instruments and vocals a painful quality, not to mention throws the overall tone of instruments off. Now that I have made it less painful, I can see that the treble is very grainy which makes cymbals and that sort of thing sound very thin and dry. It also exacerbates bad recordings. It also sounds a bit funny because the mids are actually pretty warm (it is a stark contrast to  the treble to my ears). 

The sub bass is boosted but doesn't really overshadow the mids (even though the mids are recessed), but I think it is mainly because there is very little mid bass, and even less upper bass. While talking about sub bass, the other problem with it is that it is not very resolving at all. Also, with some rap (or music that has huge rumbling bass) there is quite a bit of distortion. 

So far it seems that soundstage and imaging are not very big at all. When there are a lot (or complicated parts) of instruments these DO sound congested. They DO sound great with music that has very few instruments though. I think that overall (and with some EQ), I like the sound signature. I think they were trying to go for more analytical (less fun), but failed to do that. With the right amount of EQ I might be able to make them fun sounding though. Time will tell!

Those are my impressions for now, I will report back after listening to them longer, with different types of music.


----------



## jant71

samandhi said:


> Got my Nuarl N6 Pro today and have listened to them for about an hour, so here are first impressions:
> 
> 
> The first time I put them into my ears I thought they sounded like complete s***! I have never had an IEM/TWS that was SO sensitive with insertion. I can see now (from a few pages back) how someone said they sound like someone turned the bass way down on these. I changed tips and re-inserted them (they really need to go pretty deep), and low and behold the sound is much better. The bass now goes very low, and has some thump to it (even on rock songs).



This. Insertion depth and tip dependent. Going through this at this very moment with the CKR70TW. Thick and warm with stock L and a bit thin and cool with the M. I knew the AT tips would leave SQ on the table. Need to dial in the right amount of seal. I feel these are well tuned overall with a smooth and even sound. Even with lower seal and a thinner sound the treble isn't really peaky even if more bright. The old school UE are a dream so far...

 They do sound big and grand and delicate. Just using the ROCK preset on the Hidiz EQ but nothing really involved and not the MSEB settings. Funny that these and the DUNU Zen share DLC domes and damn if they don't sound quite similar in tuning with the UE tips. I did notice that they have that in common and reviews did suggest that tuning was there so I bought them. These are up there for SQ but I don't think they are for ANC. Mics are very good though.

The AT do have a notched bore for pressure relief...


----------



## Jo0b4k4

I've started venturing into the TWS world. I've tried the Lypertek Tevi and the Helm TWS, both of which I returned to Amazon shorty after trying them out. 



Jo0b4k4 said:


> I'm starting to wonder if I'm approaching TWS with the wrong mindset. Are we just that spoiled by IEM and over ear quality and performance for the prices we pay for TWS?
> 
> I'm honestly expecting something similar to Monster Turbines, RevoNext RN-QT2, or (for those that remember) Soundsoul S-018.



I want to try the Cambridge Melomania and the Sennheiser CX400BT/MWT2 next, but after going through this thread, I wonder if either of those will get me closer to what I'm looking for. 

What I listen to and what are my uses:
    I listen to EDM (DnB, FutureBass, Trap, mostly Female Vocals), Rock (pop punk, metal, hard rock, alt, ska), and Jazz/Instrumental (mostly piano and brass/horns). 
    Primary uses will be for gym use (lifting and rowing) and when at work. (WFH/open office, so screaming kids and loud neighbors). 
    Sources would be my phone and/or laptop

Features?
    ANC - would be nice to have, but not necessary
    Voice/Call quality - would love to have great quality here, but I understand there's no silverbullet and I'm willing to sacrifice this for superior/better music listening quality
    Water/weatherproofing - I'm careful with my things, but having peace of mind knowing they will survive some degree of carelessness or accidental exposure to the weather would be nice.

Price range - I kind of don't have a budget since ANC blows the price up anyways, but I'm definitely trying to be conscious of how much I spend. 




My impression of the Lypertek Tevi and the Helm TWS are in the quotes below that are from another thread here. 



Jo0b4k4 said:


> Just got the Tevi in today. Sound was alright and the call quality from the caller side and the called side were horrible in my opinion.
> 
> Music/sound quality, yeah they were good, I just wasn't impressed by them for the amount I paid.
> 
> ...





Jo0b4k4 said:


> Got them Sunday and gave them about 4 hours of listening. Then I returned them today.
> 
> I actually liked them. Exactly how you described them, fun! Bass heavy with pretty decent quality, but not too overboard in my opinion. I wish they had an app to EQ or I played with EQ some more so that I could get the upper mids and highs to be more pronounced.
> 
> The reason why I returned them was because when playing DnB or anything with fast treble/highs, it sounds like the drivers were clipping or getting distorted.


----------



## FYLegend

Speaking of Audio-Technica, there's recently been reports of fire and smoke with the charging case of the ATH-CK3TW, and in some places they handing replacement charging cases. https://www.audio-technica.com.tw/活...WEWGQBsXhop5NPwdZykpX3uU6W_0DxJMJATLl985tbLKM


----------



## zeinharis (Feb 23, 2021)

samandhi said:


> Got my Nuarl N6 Pro today and have listened to them for about an hour, so here are first impressions:
> 
> I like the way they look. They are not too... Blingy, but don't look plain either. I like the placement of the buttons (I still like physical buttons). I will have to say, though that the buttons are so small and sensitive they might as well be touch buttons. I keep hitting them by accident, especially when inserting the buds into my ears. The buds stick out a bit far (think Bose Soundsport Free, but not as wide and tall). I love that they come with the Spinfits, as they provide the "tacky" rubber needed to stay in my ears. I am using medium on the left and small on the right.
> 
> ...



give them a week or so, the sounds will be better, just like my N6 Mini where at first I was always fiddling with EQ, but after some times the sounds and the technicalities improved, I don’t EQ’d them now. Although the N6 Pro and the N6 Mini have a different DD, but there is a chance that the N6 Pro sounds will improved over time as well.


----------



## bronco1015

samandhi said:


> Got my Nuarl N6 Pro today and have listened to them for about an hour, so here are first impressions:
> 
> I like the way they look. They are not too... Blingy, but don't look plain either. I like the placement of the buttons (I still like physical buttons). I will have to say, though that the buttons are so small and sensitive they might as well be touch buttons. I keep hitting them by accident, especially when inserting the buds into my ears. The buds stick out a bit far (think Bose Soundsport Free, but not as wide and tall). I love that they come with the Spinfits, as they provide the "tacky" rubber needed to stay in my ears. I am using medium on the left and small on the right.
> 
> ...


In my experience, after 20 hours or so, that treble smoothed out quite a bit. just curious, is the hinge on your charging case loose feeling? Mine was from day 1 and knock on wood, no issues after a bit over a year. I don't use them as much as MTW but they still get used consistently.


----------



## Aerosphere

I spent some time with Lypertek Soundfree S20. 

Very good for the price! 
https://www.headfonia.com/lypertek-soundfree-s20-review/


----------



## Forceberg

monsieurfromag3 said:


> I’m not finding the time for extended listening sessions, but for now my wife and I’s impression of the Mu3 is of a rather balanced sound with the interesting parts coming from the mids up. There’s full-bodied bass, with no excessive presence, rather smoothed out. Very high resolution in the mids, great for voices. And extended, forward treble with zing.
> 
> On the one hand it’s an exciting listen because of the depth and richness of detail. However, less exciting is the laid-back pace. The Mu3 are not excellent rhythmically, lacking a bit of punch and slam. It’s a comfortable tuning - not safe or boring, rather it sounds mature and calm. Rather like the earbuds themselves, which look gorgeous and are gloriously comfortable for her and for me, with an easy seal and impressively secure insertion.
> 
> My wife is probably going to keep them for aerial dancing on melancholy, soulful, vocal-heavy tunes, and hang on to her Nuforce Be6i (wireless but not true wireless) whose 10mm Ti and Mg coated drivers bring massive groove and hard-hitting bass for high-intensity training fueled by trap and dark electro.


Pretty much my takeaway as well. I do enjoy the more relaxed tuning. For me they are keepers and I will finally claim my refund for the Geminis.
My only real complaint with Kef Mu3 is the ANC/ambient settings. They are not good. I think you should either do them well or not at all.


----------



## Thesonofkrypton

Enn Jott said:


> Some, including me might find this interesting -  Sony WF-1000XM4 leaked?
> 
> 
> (Image source: Reddit via The Walkman Blog)
> ...



Finally! Hope this is the real deal.


----------



## Canabuc

The JBL Club Pro plus might be a good option for you. they have amazing sound a very good fit if you use different tips as the supplied ones seem a bit small they get loud they are very tunable with their equalizer their ipx for rated they do have noise canceling but it is not the best but the Ambient sound feature is good and the call quality so far seems quite good.


----------



## jant71

FYLegend said:


> Speaking of Audio-Technica, there's recently been reports of fire and smoke with the charging case of the ATH-CK3TW, and in some places they handing replacement charging cases. https://www.audio-technica.com.tw/活動公告/真無線耳機ath-ck3tw充電盒回收更換事宜暨道歉啟事/?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=fb-post&utm_campaign=202102_ATHCK3TWrecallnotice&fbclid=IwAR0V1hfdc4Nld_WEWGQBsXhop5NPwdZykpX3uU6W_0DxJMJATLl985tbLKM


They got off to a rough start. Probably best to avoid all the first gen/early stuff. Real growing pains. Unfortunately that means all the US stuff till the current gen gets here. I bought the 70TW just because of the f*ck ups actually. I trusted they had to up their game and it seems like they did. The effort can be seen to improve. Still a few niggles like making the case small makes them closer together and a bit harder to take out esp. since the magnets hold them in strongly. Perhaps the button will be a little small for the fatter of fingers to easily press. And they still have their ear tip challenges even those these have a horn design and are trying to lock on to the earphones real well.  A better effort on this one.


----------



## turbobb

dj24 said:


> https://www.reddit.com/r/Jabra/comments/f6jrpa/using_jabra_elite_75t_as_bluetooth_headset_on/
> 
> I went ahead with the Jabra Link 380 USB-C and haven't looked back since then.  Works great with all my VOIP work calls and most TWS except Samsung.  Unfortunately this the best we can do until APTX Voice which was announced in CES 2020 starts appearing in future TWS devices.


I got the 370 UC but unfortunately none of my TWS work properly with it - at best they function the same way as with my regular BT adapter and at worst, some won't connect at all; I do have an 85t on the way and while not stated to be compatible, am hopeful it'll work. 

I checked the settings in the Jabra Direct app but don't see anything that'd enable the mic and still maintain A2DP - did you have to do anything special aside from pairing with the adapter?


----------



## TooFrank

Canabuc said:


> I may be in the minority but I find that they make the bass weaker and have yet to give me a great fit. They are comfy and secure but that bendable part of the tube makes them sheets feel like the buds are loosely floating in my ears.
> I have yet to make them the main tips in any of my buds though they are closest in the XM3.


+1 as regards the XM3. I have returned to use the comply truegrip pro...


----------



## Luke Skywalker

Have any of you guys picked up the NUARL N10 with ANC?  I wonder how they sound... I love my N6Ps


----------



## miserybeforethemusic (Feb 23, 2021)

Considering every post I make involving Senn gets taken down, I won't be surprised if this one does, too.

Still waiting on the CX400BT. UPS has already been here and it apparently wasn't on board. These did show up, though:




UE FITS arrived in record time, but UE is also right around the corner for me. The M&Ds, though, are a special Reddit find and effectively BNIB. Really curious to see where they are similar and where they differ from each other.

Oh and don't know if my impressions of the Earfun Free Pro got deleted, either, but I really like those dang things. IMO, probably the best bang-for-your-buck in terms of "quick-shipping" TWS, though I could see how the Lypertek Tevi's sound signature would be favored over the EFP's.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic (Feb 23, 2021)

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Considering every post I make involving Senn gets taken down, I won't be surprised if this one does, too.
> 
> Still waiting on the CX400BT. UPS has already been here and it apparently wasn't on board. These did show up, though:
> 
> ...


So far, already hitting issues with the UE FITS not wanting to perform a firmware update. Unfortunately, you can't figure this out until you've already done the molding process, so guess I'm going to keep giving it a shot until this update eventually takes.

Also bummed that these don't have wireless charging. Considering the Earfun Free Pro's case is technically smaller all around and features it, seeing it omitted on the UEs is a bit of a bummer. Really does help me appreciate how small the EFP's case is, even relative to the UEs. M&D's case sits somewhere in the middle.


----------



## dj24 (Feb 23, 2021)

turbobb said:


> I got the 370 UC but unfortunately none of my TWS work properly with it - at best they function the same way as with my regular BT adapter and at worst, some won't connect at all; I do have an 85t on the way and while not stated to be compatible, am hopeful it'll work.
> 
> I checked the settings in the Jabra Direct app but don't see anything that'd enable the mic and still maintain A2DP - did you have to do anything special aside from pairing with the adapter?



Hope you don't mind I take the mantle and answer this one for you.  You just need to download the Jabra software to get going..

https://www.jabra.com/supportpages/jabra-link-370#/#14208-08

Edit:  Not sure if it matters but make sure you choose the right variant of your 370 from the drop down menu first.


----------



## turbobb

@dj24 - thx I already had the Jabra Direct s/w installed (same version as one in your link). Which non-Jabra TWS do you have that works with it?


----------



## tinyman392

miserybeforethemusic said:


> So far, already hitting issues with the UE FITS not wanting to perform a firmware update. Unfortunately, you can't figure this out until you've already done the molding process, so guess I'm going to keep giving it a shot until this update eventually takes.
> 
> Also bummed that these don't have wireless charging. Considering the Earfun Free Pro's case is technically smaller all around and features it, seeing it omitted on the UEs is a bit of a bummer. Really does help me appreciate how small the EFP's case is, even relative to the UEs. M&D's case sits somewhere in the middle.



You should be able to complete the molding process before updating the firmware.  The molds do get warm and have a distinct odor to them after molding  Perfect time to update the firmware actually, let them cool off XD


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

UEs are probably going back. Left earbud keeps throwing itself in standby mode every couple minutes. Trying to get in touch with their CS, but it's another webform.

Not that pleased with the sound signature, anyway. Neutral, sure. EQ-able, kinda. Comfy, yeah, but that doesn't matter when one ear is constantly losing signal.


----------



## tinyman392

miserybeforethemusic said:


> UEs are probably going back. *Left earbud keeps throwing itself in standby mode every couple minutes*. Trying to get in touch with their CS, but it's another webform.
> 
> Not that pleased with the sound signature, anyway. Neutral, sure. EQ-able, kinda. Comfy, yeah, but that doesn't matter when one ear is constantly losing signal.



Put them both in the case.  There is a factory reset that can be done on them.  I had hiccups on the initial connection.  I set the X as the primary (first connected) then connected Y.  Afterwards they would never connect.  So I did a factory reset (don't need to remold doing this) and then set Y as primary (connected first) then X and it's worked great since.

Edit: X and Y are L and R, but I forget which I did first and second.  I just remember switching them hoping that would solve connection issues.


----------



## jant71 (Feb 23, 2021)

Luke Skywalker said:


> Have any of you guys picked up the NUARL N10 with ANC?  I wonder how they sound... I love my N6Ps


Another one that had an issue and was recalled. Though when they come out here in the US they will be issue free. IIRC it was a bad batch of hardware and not an issue anymore except for some stock that was out there so they did the trade in thing or whatever for customers but best not to buy from Japan yet unless you live there. There was a serial number range of bad units they narrowed it to and called them back.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

tinyman392 said:


> Put them both in the case.  There is a factory reset that can be done on them.  I had hiccups on the initial connection.  I set the X as the primary (first connected) then connected Y.  Afterwards they would never connect.  So I did a factory reset (don't need to remold doing this) and then set Y as primary (connected first) then X and it's worked great since.
> 
> Edit: X and Y are L and R, but I forget which I did first and second.  I just remember switching them hoping that would solve connection issues.


Would love to factory reset. Buds won't go into that mode. I've tried about 10 different ways and times at this point.


----------



## Luke Skywalker

jant71 said:


> Another one that had an issue and was recalled. Though when they come out here in the US they will be issue free. IIRC it was a bad batch of hardware and not an issue anymore except for some stock that was out there so they did the trade in thing or whatever for customers but best not to buy from Japan yet unless you live there. There was a serial number range of bad units they narrowed it to and called them back.


Thanks!  I’ve been wondering why I don’t see them for sale on Amazon or hear people discussing


----------



## samandhi

bronco1015 said:


> In my experience, after 20 hours or so, that treble smoothed out quite a bit. just curious, is the hinge on your charging case loose feeling? Mine was from day 1 and knock on wood, no issues after a bit over a year. I don't use them as much as MTW but they still get used consistently.


Not at all. The hinge seems pretty solid. Overall the buds AND the case seem very solid.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Would love to factory reset. Buds won't go into that mode. I've tried about 10 different ways and times at this point.


Ok...after about 3 full resets and a whole lot of frustration with the UEs later, turns out I was barking up the wrong tree. What it eventually took was to go in and delete the data/cache for the UE FITS app itself (Android only, though. Don't know how you'd do this for iPhone). Once I did that, the app identified that my firmware needed updating (which I already had done), but let it run through anyway. After the "update" has been completed, I'm a couple songs in now without dropouts, so seems like that was the magic fix. I still get a constant nag from the app asking me to update, after which it tells me that I'm already up to date, but at least I only get that while I'm in the app. Really surprised to see UE, a Logitech-owned company, have issues at the software level like this. It's atypical.

Sound seems pretty par for the course from what I remember of UE's Triple.Fi lineup. Initial listening observations are being done with the default "UE Signature" EQ, which resembles a FR plot that correlates to what I'm hearing. There's definitely a push throughout the bass and treble regions with mids sitting at unity. I don't mind this signature; it gives instruments enough room to breathe and you can hear everything that's going on within the track. Just doesn't seem to evoke much of an emotional response from me like the Earfun or Cambridge did. I definitely wouldn't recommend these for long-term listening due how fatigued my ears already feel at 45 minutes on medium-low volume.

Also managed to put in the M&Ds long enough to make a trip to the mailbox and back. I could see why ANC wasn't needed as passive isolation. Unfortunately, the call quality was so bad that my wife made a point of mentioning it during our call; in her words, I sounded like I was talking in a fish tank.

Today taught me that I'm not crazy for grabbing a bunch of pairs at first, even if my wife chastised me over the weekend for ordering so many pairs. Now I'm really hoping Cambridge manages to take care of their minor issues so they can sit firmly up top as the top pair in my...usable...arsenal. The Earfuns probably fall right behind it, but it's a really close competition there.

Here's where I'll put the standings at the moment:

1. Soundcore Liberty Air 2 Pro (best all-arounder, good comfort with SpinFit tips)
2. Cambridge Melomania Touch (most "romantic" and closest to my preferred sound signature, just marred by connectivity and volume control issues)
3. Earfun Free Pro (better SQ to my ears than the LA2P and tiiiiny buds; I just prefer to have an app for controls) 
4. UE FITS (frustrating setup process and that's an understatement, sound signature doesn't grab me, but hey...they don't budge once they're in)
5. M&D MW07 GO (great SQ, but I prefer to have an app and the poor call quality is an automatic disqualifier)
6. Drop Move (Poor fit, meh SQ, no app, hard pass)


----------



## jant71 (Feb 23, 2021)

While the buds burn in some I took case pics...
About 2.5" long


and 1.25" at most

Made in Vietnam...

Hinge locks open with some hold.

Nice outside of trying to be small keeping the buds closer together making the removal a bit harder not being as easy to grab and the other downer is no Qi wireless.

Was a choice between the AT and the KEF and I haven't heard the KEF but think I made the right choice. Shipping wasn't free but still $41 less, wait KEF has tax too right, so $60 less, and I like the form factor and easy fit, the button placement and added touch controls and ANC and transparency are better on the AT. AT has a decent app for these as well. Think the KEF don't voice the battery state when you put them in do they? So, that is helpful. Auto play/pause not working with the UE tips though probably cause they are longer and the sensors don't work. Never use that anyhow as with ambient they can stay in and pressing the button is easier than taking one out. Should mention these are the first wireless to go 25 feet then up walled in stairs then walk back to that position on the next floor without a drop. Though if on the next floor up I put my arms away from my sides and up it did block the signal so floor plus arms gave it trouble.


----------



## zeinharis

Luke Skywalker said:


> Have any of you guys picked up the NUARL N10 with ANC?  I wonder how they sound... I love my N6Ps



I wondered it myself, but there’s a lot of connectivity issues with the N10 Pro. A lot of users exchanged their units due to this issue. Products manufactured from August to December 2020, or products purchased by January 2020 (target serial numbers: N66U8A0000 ~, N66U9A0000 ~, N66UXA0000 ~, N66UYA0000 ~, N66UZA0000 ~) are the ones that effected and eligible for the exchange program, though not all of them are effected.


----------



## tinyman392

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Ok...after about 3 full resets and a whole lot of frustration with the UEs later, turns out I was barking up the wrong tree. What it eventually took was to go in and delete the data/cache for the UE FITS app itself (Android only, though. Don't know how you'd do this for iPhone). Once I did that, the app identified that my firmware needed updating (which I already had done), but let it run through anyway. After the "update" has been completed, I'm a couple songs in now without dropouts, so seems like that was the magic fix. I still get a constant nag from the app asking me to update, after which it tells me that I'm already up to date, but at least I only get that while I'm in the app. Really surprised to see UE, a Logitech-owned company, have issues at the software level like this. It's atypical.
> 
> Sound seems pretty par for the course from what I remember of UE's Triple.Fi lineup. Initial listening observations are being done with the default "UE Signature" EQ, which resembles a FR plot that correlates to what I'm hearing. There's definitely a push throughout the bass and treble regions with mids sitting at unity. I don't mind this signature; it gives instruments enough room to breathe and you can hear everything that's going on within the track. Just doesn't seem to evoke much of an emotional response from me like the Earfun or Cambridge did. I definitely wouldn't recommend these for long-term listening due how fatigued my ears already feel at 45 minutes on medium-low volume.
> 
> ...



Glad you were able to get the software stuff sorted out.  Logitech has always been a hardware company first for me and a software second.  The only make the software because they have to, so software glitches don't surprise me.  I'm not sure how much of a hand Logitech has in the UE fits though, if it's more UE and less Logitech, software glitches make even more sense as unwelcome as they are (not making an excuse for it though).  I had a weird setup process as well with glitches.  Unfortunate to hear the sound didn't fit your preferences; it's not a super "fun" signature though at the end of the day either.  The EQ is also a bit wonky.  

I actually didn't find the isolation to be all that great.  They were about average, maybe slightly less, for a pair of IEMs.  Once music is playing they're fine though.  Neve tested a call with them.  Don't really plan to


----------



## Canabuc

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Ok...after about 3 full resets and a whole lot of frustration with the UEs later, turns out I was barking up the wrong tree. What it eventually took was to go in and delete the data/cache for the UE FITS app itself (Android only, though. Don't know how you'd do this for iPhone). Once I did that, the app identified that my firmware needed updating (which I already had done), but let it run through anyway. After the "update" has been completed, I'm a couple songs in now without dropouts, so seems like that was the magic fix. I still get a constant nag from the app asking me to update, after which it tells me that I'm already up to date, but at least I only get that while I'm in the app. Really surprised to see UE, a Logitech-owned company, have issues at the software level like this. It's atypical.
> 
> Sound seems pretty par for the course from what I remember of UE's Triple.Fi lineup. Initial listening observations are being done with the default "UE Signature" EQ, which resembles a FR plot that correlates to what I'm hearing. There's definitely a push throughout the bass and treble regions with mids sitting at unity. I don't mind this signature; it gives instruments enough room to breathe and you can hear everything that's going on within the track. Just doesn't seem to evoke much of an emotional response from me like the Earfun or Cambridge did. I definitely wouldn't recommend these for long-term listening due how fatigued my ears already feel at 45 minutes on medium-low volume.
> 
> ...


JBLs are great sounding and very reliable connection and call quality. You should try them


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

tinyman392 said:


> Glad you were able to get the software stuff sorted out.  Logitech has always been a hardware company first for me and a software second.  The only make the software because they have to, so software glitches don't surprise me.  I'm not sure how much of a hand Logitech has in the UE fits though, if it's more UE and less Logitech, software glitches make even more sense as unwelcome as they are (not making an excuse for it though).  I had a weird setup process as well with glitches.  Unfortunate to hear the sound didn't fit your preferences; it's not a super "fun" signature though at the end of the day either.  The EQ is also a bit wonky.
> 
> I actually didn't find the isolation to be all that great.  They were about average, maybe slightly less, for a pair of IEMs.  Once music is playing they're fine though.  Neve tested a call with them.  Don't really plan to


Haha unfortunately I can't skimp on the call quality end as that's what these things will be used for about 80% of the time. M&Ds are automatically DQ'ed. Let's hope the Senns don't have the same problem. Doubt Jabra will (oh yeah, those are still on the way) and I've still got a few more months for the Status.

As far as I understood, Logitech has a pretty flat corporate structure, allowing for pretty broad platform-sharing. Logitech probably provided the software and BT end of the buds, UE the drivers and tuning, and Revols handled the Lightform application. Could be wrong, though.

And it's not so much that the sound isn't "fun" as it was just grating with the default EQ. I was able to smooth that out by just creating a flat EQ and saving it as a preset. That at least allowed for a lot more stage presence. While I've lost some of the low-end power, I feel almost a half-bubble's worth of space now. Doesn't extend that far beyond the ears, but it's definitely perceivable.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

Canabuc said:


> JBLs are great sounding and very reliable connection and call quality. You should try them


I have added and removed those from my Sweetwater cart more times than I care to admit. Very tempted. Assume you're talking about the Club Pro+?


----------



## Canabuc (Feb 23, 2021)

My JBL early review(with comparisons to other to popular models I have tried):

Btw should I post a more detailed one on the site? Never done one before.
Well I have been spending a lot of time trying to evaluate and make a decision between the JBL Club Pro plus and the Sony wf1000xm3 earbuds.

I would say once equalized the two of them have probably the closest sound signature of any two earbuds I have listened to.

the low end on the JBL seems a little bit tighter with the base being a little more fast and impactful whereas on the Sony it seems a little boomier and less defined. And conversely the Sony a tiny little bit more bite at the high end in the treble although after equalization the differences for both of these are quite small.

I think the JBL maybe one of the most underrated true wireless earbuds out there right now for two different reasons. The first one is that they did not do the YouTube review tour as I like to call it in that sound core Samsung Sony Apple Sennheiser Jabra even have all given out earbuds and had tons of reviews come out on release date.it is almost comical. When the sound core Liberty air to prose released on the first day there were at least 30 YouTube reviews by all the typical characters.of course they all got their units for free and for the most part had glowing reviews to me these don't really give you a true accurate picture of what they are like but I liken them more to unboxing videos so that you can see the product.

The JBL on the other hand have maybe four or five YouTube videos that have been released all together in the English language. As such there has been a lot less exposure to reviews. Additionally for some reason there has been very limited stock for people to purchase. The JBL website appears sold outget it for a very good price on amazon.ca.

what is interesting however is that there are a ton of Japanese reviews of these earbuds. Unfortunately I don't understand Japanese however when viewing YouTube on the desktop there is the opportunity to invoke translated subtitles which are kind of amusing as the translations are not very good. however you can also use Google translate to translate the comments as well.

It would seem as if these JBL earbuds are getting very high reviews and some reviewers have ranked them their number one and certainly in their top three of all true Wireless earbuds.

with a few small exceptions they hit every Target I could possibly want in an ear bud:

They get loud and sound amazing once you use the equalizer which is very expansive and comprehensive.I would put them on the same tier sound quality wise as the Sony and the sennheiser. The sennheisers in some music I prefer but in some genres they're warmer laid-back sound does not convey the energy in the song. With the JBL I find every musical genre it sounds great. Though some do sound a little better with the sennheisers but the Sennheiser is also require 10 to 15% boost in volume to reach the same volume levels as the jbl.

They have two different types of transparency mode. They have one that goes on and is there so that you can hear ambient noise in the background while your music is playing. They also have a talk through feature where when activating this it will actually lower the volume to very low levels and amplify the microphones even more so that one can hold a very good conversation that is clear without having to remove the buds. However should you choose to remove an earbud there is auto pause and additionally transparency mode will activate on the other earbud while that is happening. Either but can be used independently unlike the Sennheiser or the Jabra.

Like the Jabra they have a total of six microphones and I have found so far in a few calls that I have made that I sounded clear to the collar the collar sounded very clear to me and I would say the microphone quality is better than the sennheiser's by far better than the Sony and at least on par with the Jabra.

The case is very nice as well. It is shaped very similar to the new Galaxy Bud pros but is slightly bigger dimensionally. It is smaller significantly than the Sony or the Sennheiser. And unlike them does have wireless charging. With the case total battery life is 32 hours without ANC and 24 with anc. 8 hours or 6 hours with ANC off or on in the buds themselves. So far I do not think there are any noise canceling earbuds that have longer reported battery life than these.

Negatives:

Since I have yet to find the perfect earbud there are some negatives and for some these may be a deal breaker but I don't think so. The first one is you can't control every feature at the same time on the earbuds.
In fact the controls are basically identical to the Sony in that you can customize either side. however you have to choose one side to be either track control volume control ambient and noise canceling control or your assistant dedicated controls.
It would have been nice if you could have had volume control added on and then choose two of the other three. as it stands now I have ambient control set on the left with track control on the right. You can still activate your assistant with a long press but you don't have the full assistant functionality that you do when it's assigned to a bud so the main thing I am missing would be volume control. I can do this by holding down the assistant button and telling it the volume I prefer or do it from the phone so it is not a total loss.

The other somewhat negative would be with respect to noise canceling. I have only tested it in a limited fashion so far. I would say if you were buying earbuds specifically for top quality noise canceling I would go for the Jabra the Sony if you get the right fit or the Bose. (The Samsung's are also supposed to be good but since I could never get a proper fit they did not work well for me and accept at a few second intervals when the seal was just right)

The ANC does work but what I found was it was similar to that of the MTW2. Listening to crowded cafe or airplane sounds in a cabin at 65 decibels in my living room home theater system I found with the Sony when I had a good seal would eliminate it all but the highest frequency sounds in those environments. Same thing for the job rep the JBL and the Sennheiser would eliminate the low end part of those noises but the upper frequencies would still come through louder than on the class leaders. Now in the case of the JBL which play volume louder than the Sennheiser if I were to turn the music on I would not hear any of those noises. my tests were done with no music playing but just the noise canceling on to see exactly how much they could eliminate.

Another small negative has to do with the included ear tips they only come with three and even the largest ones are not large enough for my ears. For reference with the Sony I fit best with the silicone included ear tips with medium on one side and large on the other. This tends to be the case with most earbuds that do fit me okay. In the case of the JBL even with a large on both sides I found that while comfortable I was not getting the best seal and the fit was too loose with the buds easily falling out with head shaking. I happen to have extra ear tips from my Liberty 2 Pro. These happen to fit fantastically for both the Sony and for these period the fit became secure with no loss and comfort or sound quality and the earbuds will not come out of my ear even with vigorous shaking.
On one of those Japanese videos I did see them make mention of actually using the ear tips that fit the airpods pro from spin fit the cp1025 perhaps because of their lower profile and that they made a secure comfortable fit as well. I did try the cp360s in medium and large and they were comfortable with a good fit but with putting my head down or shaking it they were not quite as secure and did let more passive noise in and thus not as good noise canceling with them I find this is the case using cp360 for any earbud however.

In conclusion I think right now short of sale prices that are going on for the Sony this represents the best value when putting sound quality with features all in one package. The comfort is great the sound is fantastic the battery life and call quality and ambient mode were all very good for me as well. The case is sufficiently small with wireless charging as well. I think right now they and Sony are pretty much neck and neck (now that I have found a good fit with the Sony's with different tips) for my favorite overall earbuds, with Sony having better ANC and JBL better comfort and features (ipx4 Qi charging, smaller form factor). The Sennheiser momentum true Wireless to have a better touch control design and perhaps for some music a better overall sound signature but lack in volume features and battery life in comparison while costing more than 50% more.

Hopefully as more people discover these outside of Japan there will be more YouTube videos and Buzz for this really great product.


----------



## Canabuc

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Haha unfortunately I can't skimp on the call quality end as that's what these things will be used for about 80% of the time. M&Ds are automatically DQ'ed. Let's hope the Senns don't have the same problem. Doubt Jabra will (oh yeah, those are still on the way) and I've still got a few more months for the Status.
> 
> As far as I understood, Logitech has a pretty flat corporate structure, allowing for pretty broad platform-sharing. Logitech probably provided the software and BT end of the buds, UE the drivers and tuning, and Revols handled the Lightform application. Could be wrong, though.
> 
> And it's not so much that the sound isn't "fun" as it was just grating with the default EQ. I was able to smooth that out by just creating a flat EQ and saving it as a preset. That at least allowed for a lot more stage presence. While I've lost some of the low-end power, I feel almost a half-bubble's worth of space now. Doesn't extend that far beyond the ears, but it's definitely perceivable.


Don't bother with the sennheisers of you like call quality. They are garbage in the MTW2 which are better than the cx400.

I ordered the cx400 for the best price because I like the sound signature but they would not be a great everyday earbud. No Ambient mode poor quality for calls no ANC or IP rating. And even battery is neutered as the case has less than 2 charges for 20 hours total if listening on AAC at 50% volume. Based on the MTW2 and being in Android I will be on APTX and need minimum 70% to 80% volume so I will be lucky to see 15 total hours.

Best call quality will be Bose, Samsung, Jabra, JBL.


----------



## Canabuc

miserybeforethemusic said:


> I have added and removed those from my Sweetwater cart more times than I care to admit. Very tempted. Assume you're talking about the Club Pro+?


Yes. Got them from Amazon Canada. Currently 219$ CDN which is about  170$ US.


----------



## tinyman392

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Haha unfortunately I can't skimp on the call quality end as that's what these things will be used for about 80% of the time. M&Ds are automatically DQ'ed. Let's hope the Senns don't have the same problem. Doubt Jabra will (oh yeah, those are still on the way) and I've still got a few more months for the Status.
> 
> As far as I understood, Logitech has a pretty flat corporate structure, allowing for pretty broad platform-sharing. Logitech probably provided the software and BT end of the buds, UE the drivers and tuning, and Revols handled the Lightform application. Could be wrong, though.
> 
> And it's not so much that the sound isn't "fun" as it was just grating with the default EQ. I was able to smooth that out by just creating a flat EQ and saving it as a preset. That at least allowed for a lot more stage presence. While I've lost some of the low-end power, I feel almost a half-bubble's worth of space now. Doesn't extend that far beyond the ears, but it's definitely perceivable.



I created a flat EQ too, though I don't mind the way the UE has it set up default.  If you want to, you can further edit the flat EQ to add a bit of low end power.  I wish UE offered dB markings on the EQ as that's what makes it hardest to EQ properly IMO.  But then again, is it worth getting them to how you like it if you can't use them for calls?


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

Canabuc said:


> Don't bother with the sennheisers of you like call quality. They are garbage in the MTW2 which are better than the cx400.
> 
> I ordered the cx400 for the best price because I like the sound signature but they would not be a great everyday earbud. No Ambient mode poor quality for calls no ANC or IP rating. And even battery is neutered as the case has less than 2 charges for 20 hours total if listening on AAC at 50% volume. Based on the MTW2 and being in Android I will be on APTX and need minimum 70% to 80% volume so I will be lucky to see 15 total hours.
> 
> Best call quality will be Bose, Samsung, Jabra, JBL.


Oh boy. Guess they'll be in the same camp as the M&Ds, then, which have been growing on me this afternoon. Granted, I did swap out the tips with some SpinFits and that helped a lot with fit and sound signature. These feel very "Hi-Fi" to me now, which I don't mind a whole lot these days; it's why I find the Cambridge so admirable. These are a little more bloated in comparison, though, especially on Electronic music.


Canabuc said:


> Yes. Got them from Amazon Canada. Currently 219$ CDN which is about  170$ US.


Nice price! Very tempting...


tinyman392 said:


> I created a flat EQ too, though I don't mind the way the UE has it set up default.  If you want to, you can further edit the flat EQ to add a bit of low end power.  I wish UE offered dB markings on the EQ as that's what makes it hardest to EQ properly IMO.  But then again, is it worth getting them to how you like it if you can't use them for calls?


I'll have to do some call testing on them in a bit. There's something sweet enough about them to keep, even if call quality isn't awesome. I did find myself lost in a few tracks, mostly due to how little you feel them in your ears.


----------



## tinyman392

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Oh boy. Guess they'll be in the same camp as the M&Ds, then, which have been growing on me this afternoon. Granted, I did swap out the tips with some SpinFits and that helped a lot with fit and sound signature. These feel very "Hi-Fi" to me now, which I don't mind a whole lot these days; it's why I find the Cambridge so admirable. These are a little more bloated in comparison, though, especially on Electronic music.
> 
> Nice price! Very tempting...
> 
> I'll have to do some call testing on them in a bit. There's something sweet enough about them to keep, even if call quality isn't awesome. I did find myself lost in a few tracks, mostly due to how little you feel them in your ears.


You don’t feel them at all while they’re in your ear. It really is amazing. To be honest, I may or may not feel them more than I do with my CIEM. Which is pretty amazing to think about. Granted they don’t sit deep in the ear canal at all though.


----------



## Canabuc

For those who speak Japanese or like me use desktop mode and generate English subtitles then translate the comments.

Seems all the main recent reviews of the JBL club pro plus are coming out of Japan. I think JBL made a mistake in not sponsoring some reviews as this thing is getting great reviews there in happen.

This video and others have it ranked 1st overall.

The top 5 overall with noise cancelling in this video. He has a scoring system or of 150 factoring in fit comfort sound ANC and features etc:

5. Tie APP Nuarl10pro 106/150
4. Jabra 85t 111/150
3 Aviot TED01M 112/150
2. MTW2 114/150
1. JBL club pro plus 121/150

Some notes. He really likes the ANC of Jabras and APP the best.
Sound overall MTW2 and JBL.


----------



## tinyman392

New TWS… well it’s more of a Frankenstein to create a TWS. Fiio UTWS 3 + Audeze Euclid. The Fiio has a really nice DAC/amp in it which is more than capable of driving the Euclid IMO. I also have the Fiio neckband which offers a ton more features I wish this had for my Nightingale (2-pin) as I was planning to turn that into a TWS too. Mainly I’ll miss the 10-bad EQ the neckband has vs the 5-band the TWS setup offers. While not an issue with the Euclid, the Nightingale needs an EQ to sound anywhere near coherent.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

tinyman392 said:


> New TWS… well it’s more of a Frankenstein to create a TWS. Fiio UTWS 3 + Audeze Euclid. The Fiio has a really nice DAC/amp in it which is more than capable of driving the Euclid IMO. I also have the Fiio neckband which offers a ton more features I wish this had for my Nightingale (2-pin) as I was planning to turn that into a TWS too. Mainly I’ll miss the 10-bad EQ the neckband has vs the 5-band the TWS setup offers. While not an issue with the Euclid, the Nightingale needs an EQ to sound anywhere near coherent.


What's your take on the Euclid relative to, say the iSine or Mobius? These piqued my curiosity, but they're definitely a long-term strategy price-wise.


----------



## dj24

turbobb said:


> @dj24 - thx I already had the Jabra Direct s/w installed (same version as one in your link). Which non-Jabra TWS do you have that works with it?


I'm currently sing the Jabra Elite Active 75t without any issues.  Previously I've had the Tranya M10 and the original Bomaker Sifi and they worked really well too.  I couldn't get the Samsung Buds + to work though.  They kept disconnecting frequently for some reason and my understanding is that they're the only brand that are not compatible.

My advice is to keep trying until you get the connection going the first time around.  It's difficult at first but connection is instantaneous every time after that.


----------



## tinyman392

miserybeforethemusic said:


> What's your take on the Euclid relative to, say the iSine or Mobius? These piqued my curiosity, but they're definitely a long-term strategy price-wise.



The Mobius actually also has a thicker bass presentation in the Music EQ as well, though the total quantity seems about 1 or 2 dB above the Euclid (they’re very close in quantity like this); in contrast the Euclid seems to be a bit more delicate in the way it presents the bass.  The midrange on the Mobius sounds a little more hallow in comparison with a more upfront focus on detailing.  The treble on the Euclid has a tad more energy and splash in the treble as a whole and does better with detailing up here.  Overall the the Euclid does end up sounding a lot cleaner than the Mobius.  

I could probably say similar stuff in comparison to the iSine 10 except that the iSine 10 don’t really have that hallower midrange that I hear in the Mobius.  

I did post my general first impressions of the Euclid earlier in Audeze’s announcement thread.  Still need to give them time to burn in and stuff though.


----------



## Jo0b4k4

tinyman392 said:


> New TWS… well it’s more of a Frankenstein to create a TWS. Fiio UTWS 3 + Audeze Euclid. The Fiio has a really nice DAC/amp in it which is more than capable of driving the Euclid IMO. I also have the Fiio neckband which offers a ton more features I wish this had for my Nightingale (2-pin) as I was planning to turn that into a TWS too. Mainly I’ll miss the 10-bad EQ the neckband has vs the 5-band the TWS setup offers. While not an issue with the Euclid, the Nightingale needs an EQ to sound anywhere near coherent.




Holy crap that is amazing. This might be a path I go down as well vs going through the "real TWS" market. Now I need to do some research on what MMCX IEMs to pair with these.


----------



## tinyman392

Jo0b4k4 said:


> Holy crap that is amazing. This might be a path I go down as well vs going through the "real TWS" market. Now I need to do some research on what MMCX IEMs to pair with these.



Fiio also makes a 2-pin as well  But only shallow/flush 2-pin setups will work with it (so a recessed 2-pin socket may not work).  But yeah, it really opens up the options for TWS.  The only downside with them is the size of the case.  Oh, I haven‘t tested call quality either since that’s not a huge thing for me.


----------



## Jo0b4k4

tinyman392 said:


> Fiio also makes a 2-pin as well  But only shallow/flush 2-pin setups will work with it (so a recessed 2-pin socket may not work).  But yeah, it really opens up the options for TWS.  The only downside with them is the size of the case.  Oh, I haven‘t tested call quality either since that’s not a huge thing for me.


If it's above average in call quality, that's good enough for me. If you don't mind me asking, where did you end up ordering it from, and can you provide a link? I get directed to aliexpress from Fiio's website, but not directly to a product page on their aliexpress store. Just want to make sure that if I do end up buying these, I'm not getting a counterfeit.


----------



## tinyman392 (Feb 23, 2021)

Jo0b4k4 said:


> If it's above average in call quality, that's good enough for me. If you don't mind me asking, where did you end up ordering it from, and can you provide a link? I get directed to aliexpress from Fiio's website, but not directly to a product page on their aliexpress store. Just want to make sure that if I do end up buying these, I'm not getting a counterfeit.



I ended up purchasing the MMCX from Amazon.  I did buy a 2-pin from AliExpress, but it hasn’t arrived yet, I don’t remember who the reseller is for that though.

Edit: can’t find the 2-pin on Amazon, but the MMCX goes in and out of stock.

Edit 2: I made a voice memo using the headphones.  It seemed pretty clean on that end.  But not sure how that translate to going over the phone to another person.  It’s also quiet where I am right now too though.

Edit 3: sorry for the massive edits.  TRN also has an adapter this is cheaper than Fiio‘s as well.  I’m not sure how good the adapter is though; I do know it doesn’t have the EQ and other app features though.


----------



## Jo0b4k4

tinyman392 said:


> I ended up purchasing the MMCX from Amazon.  I did buy a 2-pin from AliExpress, but it hasn’t arrived yet, I don’t remember who the reseller is for that though.
> 
> Edit: can’t find the 2-pin on Amazon, but the MMCX goes in and out of stock.
> 
> ...



Ah no wonder I couldn't find it on Amazon, it's out of stock now. I'll get on the waiting list for this. Thanks again for making me aware of development in the TWS adapter segment


----------



## clerkpalmer

tinyman392 said:


> New TWS… well it’s more of a Frankenstein to create a TWS. Fiio UTWS 3 + Audeze Euclid. The Fiio has a really nice DAC/amp in it which is more than capable of driving the Euclid IMO. I also have the Fiio neckband which offers a ton more features I wish this had for my Nightingale (2-pin) as I was planning to turn that into a TWS too. Mainly I’ll miss the 10-bad EQ the neckband has vs the 5-band the TWS setup offers. While not an issue with the Euclid, the Nightingale needs an EQ to sound anywhere near coherent.


Cool but can the fiio really drive the Euclid properly?


----------



## tinyman392 (Feb 24, 2021)

clerkpalmer said:


> Cool but can the fiio really drive the Euclid properly?



Actually, Audeze said they can.  The specs kind of say that too with a 12 ohm impedance and 105 dB/1mW sensitivity, they should be pretty easy to drive.

Edited: linked post from Audeze stating they’re easy to drive.


----------



## 543293

Any FIIL user here with an Android device? Could I gather some input on your experience with the sound quality based on the use of SBC codec compared to AAC?


----------



## Canabuc

Lorelock said:


> Any FIIL user here with an Android device? Could I gather some input on your experience with the sound quality based on the use of SBC codec compared to AAC?


Only use it on AAC and sound great why use sbc?


----------



## guido (Feb 24, 2021)

ZAX with the FiiO UTWS3 wireless adapters....sound amazing!!

I have had the Sony WF1000-XM3, Sennheiser Momentum TW, and BT40 ....absolutely NO contest, these are on a different level altogether


----------



## bronco1015

samandhi said:


> Not at all. The hinge seems pretty solid. Overall the buds AND the case seem very solid.


Awesome. Yeah the case feels solid, it's just the hinge is so loose feeling. When i got them i was in the middle of moving and never got around to asking nuarl. it's not like the lid just flops all over the place, i just wish it felt more secure to me than it does. The buds are solid indeed.


----------



## bronco1015

I'm thinking about picking up both the JBL Club pro and Melomania Touch. with the JBL's though, aren't they releasing a successor to the club pro soonish? Thought i saw that in a CES article but can't find it.


----------



## BigZ12

bronco1015 said:


> I'm thinking about picking up both the JBL Club pro and Melomania Touch. with the JBL's though, aren't they releasing a successor to the club pro soonish? Thought i saw that in a CES article but can't find it.


JBL Club pro supports SBC only? That's a no from me.


----------



## Caipirina

Finally seen the Galaxy Buds Pro around here locally .. but holy moly, they come in at 240USD, which includes a hefty 'first adopter / gloater' fee. 
Oh, and no way they want to open / unseal a box. No way to try ... so ... no for now ..


----------



## BigZ12

tinyman392 said:


> Fiio also makes a 2-pin as well  But only shallow/flush 2-pin setups will work with it (so a recessed 2-pin socket may not work).  But yeah, it really opens up the options for TWS.  The only downside with them is the size of the case.  Oh, I haven‘t tested call quality either since that’s not a huge thing for me.



So for instance, these would be a problem? This is what you call recessed?

And I guess this is "flush"?

How do "shallow" look? 
Sorry, I'm a newbie on 2-pin  Only have a Fiio FH3 mmcx, that's almost ruined by driver flex.


----------



## guido

the 2-pin version will definitely work on both


----------



## 543293

Canabuc said:


> Only use it on AAC and sound great why use sbc?


Using an Android? What brand (eg. samsung)? Not all Android phones handle AAC as well as Apple does.


----------



## bronco1015 (Feb 24, 2021)

BigZ12 said:


> JBL Club pro supports SBC only? That's a no from me.


I didn't even catch that wow. Yes, it is all about implementation etc, i'm always in that camp, but i'm not paying $200 for SBC only. Thanks for pointing that out. I was willing to try that with the XM3 2 years ago, but not now with the improvements we've seen generally.


----------



## zeinharis

Been listening to this on my Nuarl N6 Mini











The layering, separations, imaging, and timbre is pretty good for a TWS, bass is fast enough to keep up with the tracks (its not bloated, its tight, and its deep), though the trebles is laid back but it still gives that energetic sound. I don’t EQ’d them anymore, apparently my brain is getting accustomed with their sound.


----------



## jant71

I am holding off on the TWS adapters till they get better design wise. Thought about getting the Shure since it is the one that has "environmental" sound so the only one you can hear through but didn't want to spend that much. I'll wait for aptX HD, ambient, and if they can put a three button control on a Nuarl TWS they can put one on TWS adapters!  I bought a JPride cable to wait till that sort of thing comes along.



I bought this along with my CKR70TW for my Dunu Zen. I wanted the longer cable that lays on the side of the neck but not out in front or up dangling and bouncing.

Of course the American brand Shure put ambient in and none of the Chinese brands have put that in and hard to name a Chi-Fi TWS that has ambient. What they don't talk to people live in China ?  Only on calls. What's the deal??


----------



## tinyman392

BigZ12 said:


> So for instance, these would be a problem? This is what you call recessed?
> 
> And I guess this is "flush"?
> 
> ...


The top is flush. The bottom is actually a different 2-pin connector that sticks out from the body. Recessed would be the opposite of the second photo, something like the Drop Plus.


----------



## veraideishal

jant71 said:


> I am holding off on the TWS adapters till they get better design wise. Thought about getting the Shure since it is the one that has "environmental" sound so the only one you can hear through but didn't want to spend that much. I'll wait for aptX HD, ambient, and if they can put a three button control on a Nuarl TWS they can put one on TWS adapters!  I bought a JPride cable to wait till that sort of thing comes along.
> 
> I bought this along with my CKR70TW for my Dunu Zen. I wanted the longer cable that lays on the side of the neck but not out in front or up dangling and bouncing.
> 
> Of course the American brand Shure put ambient in and none of the Chinese brands have put that in and hard to name a Chi-Fi TWS that has ambient. What they don't talk to people live in China ?  Only on calls. What's the deal??


Qualcomm doesn’t yet provide ambient mode as a standard built-in feature for their Bluetooth audio chips and reference designs, so it’s additional development work to integrate it, which I’m pretty sure that very few brands have the expertise to do (see: Fostex TM2, which has a half-baked implementation of it. Haven’t tried the Shures, but my hopes aren’t high for those either).


----------



## GreenError

Hello  I'd like to buy new headphones and can't choose between the Jabra 85T, Melomania Touch and the KEF mu3. Can someone help me make the decision?  

To me: iPhone users, so only aac. I like bass-heavy music, but also rock and acoustic songs. Sound quality is most important to me. ANC is great, but good passive isolation is enough for me. I only make calls sometimes, so it's not so important. Hope someone can help with the decision, someone could test two or 3 of the headphones? The KEF mu3 doesn't have an app, so you have to live with the presets? Thank you


----------



## BigZ12 (Feb 24, 2021)

guido said:


> the 2-pin version will definitely work on both





tinyman392 said:


> The top is flush. The bottom is actually a different 2-pin connector that sticks out from the body. Recessed would be the opposite of the second photo, something like the Drop Plus.


So the Ikko OH10 Obsidian will work with the 2-pin UTWS3 then? (I've got a real nice offer, seconhand bought in January)


----------



## tinyman392

BigZ12 said:


> So the Ikko OH10 Obsidian will work with the 2-pin UTWS3 then? (I've got a real nice offer, seconhand bought in January)



I feel like it _should_ work.  This is assuming the the pin ports are the same distance apart each other compared to the other 2-pin setups.


----------



## tinyman392

Oh crap, I just realized that the UTWS 3 doesn't have a customizable EQ at all, it's just 3 presets


----------



## Canabuc

bronco1015 said:


> I'm thinking about picking up both the JBL Club pro and Melomania Touch. with the JBL's though, aren't they releasing a successor to the club pro soonish? Thought i saw that in a CES article but can't find it.


It is not a successor buta slightly different model for I think the tour pro. Has same identical looking words except the design looks more business oriented in tennis of the bud shape.
I don't think the drivers batteries or features are any different.
The club pro plus only was announced in September and became available I think I'm December and even then it seems it did not get a full rollout as it is usually out of stock.

JBL has AAC and SBC. Even their top line one ear headphone that compete with Bose and Sony breast doesn't have APTX. Seems most companies seen to be abandoning those codecs on their true wireless models.


----------



## Canabuc

Caipirina said:


> Finally seen the Galaxy Buds Pro around here locally .. but holy moly, they come in at 240USD, which includes a hefty 'first adopter / gloater' fee.
> Oh, and no way they want to open / unseal a box. No way to try ... so ... no for now ..


I just returned mine. Sound was great but could not get comfortable fit or seal in my right ear for my life.


----------



## Canabuc

Lorelock said:


> Using an Android? What brand (eg. samsung)? Not all Android phones handle AAC as well as Apple does.


Have Samsung. And honestly with Dolby Atmos  enabled AAC sound great. On Sennheiser HD I use APTX as it seems louder but it also drains more battery in the ear buds.


----------



## Canabuc

bronco1015 said:


> I didn't even catch that wow. Yes, it is all about implementation etc, i'm always in that camp, but i'm not paying $200 for SBC only. Thanks for pointing that out. I was willing to try that with the XM3 2 years ago, but not now with the improvements we've seen generally.


IS not SBC only it has AAC where did that rumor start?


----------



## Enn Jott

Canabuc said:


> I just returned mine. Sound was great but could not get comfortable fit or seal in my right ear for my life.


Same here, could not get a seal. Treble seemed too intense and just EQ-presets. Kind of fiddly to get into the ear as well. 

All in all I don't feel like I can judge them given the seal-problem. Now i have the JBLs on order.


----------



## Fudgebar

Chalk me up as a big fan of the EarFun Pros!  Great sounding set of affordable TWS that are actually the US version of the Fiil T1Pros for those that may not know

Here is my collection of great TWS in order of sound quality from my opinion

1. EarFun Free Pro  -best all around sound signature  -Smooth v shape with good detail
2. Edifier X3 - Best sounding vs price performance TWS on market period.  These rival the Earfun Pro and may actually have better layering and space between instruments
3. Fiil T1XS- Loudest TWS (but you have to max the volume in the app first) and most flexible EQ options.  Very good all around detail
4. MW 07 Go- Nice sounding rich sound. Price is no longer attractive considering what you can get cheaper above
5. Edifier TWS1 - Very good all around sound but doesnt have the texture detail and vocal forwardness of it cheaper brother, the X3
6. Enacfire Air - Clean all around airy sound. Not as loud and impactful as the hard hitting buds in my top 3
7. Senheisser Momentum (version 1) -These were very dissapointing when compared to the top 3.  They lacked the bass response and their treble detail was terrible. very very overrated TWS earbuds that have used their strong audiophile history to fool many in the TWS market.  I actually returned these even when I got them on the recent Amazon sale of $100. They failed every musical type of head to head battle against the top 3 and their quirky EQ app couldnt salvage them.
8. Enacfire E18  One of my first TWS, very mediocre, ok in a pinch, no bass, a bit harsh on the timbre
9. Geekee Pro - very cheap gaming website recommended TWS buds. Overemphasized bass and muddy mids & high. only in desperation would i use again


----------



## Canabuc (Feb 24, 2021)

JBL's Tour Series headphones will hit the market later in the year, with the JBL Tour Pro Plus available in black at major retailers and on JBL.com on May 30 for $200.

Key specs, according to JBL: 

6.8mm dynamic driversAdaptive Noise Canceling
Six hours of battery with active noise canceling on, eight hours with Bluetooth onlySpeed Charge (10 minutes of charging gets you an hour of playback)Adaptive Ambient Aware and TalkThruVoice Clarity with three-mic beamforming array technologyDual Connect + Sync and Fast PairHands-free voice capability with Amazon Alexa and Google AssistantIPX4 sweatproofSilentNow and My AlarmSmart Audio & Video, optimized for listening to music versus a movieCustomized tap panel controlCheck My Best Fit feature lets you check your ear fit with the companion appJBL Headphones App to customize EQ settingsPrice: $200


This the announcement for the newer JBL model coming in May. Outside of silent now and my alarm nothing listed is absent on the club pro plus. The club pro plus has a different bud shape and adds some custom DJ EQ.


----------



## Canabuc

Boy am I a bud whore.
Was looking at the headphones section on Costco Canada as I see the JBL club one are on sale.

Of course now I see the Master and dynamic mw07 plus are suddenly there on the site for 268$Canadian or about 210usd.

Never considered them at their original price and nowhere to audition them.

Anybody have feedback? My biggest priority would be sound, for comfort, ambient and controls. Hopefully with decent ANC.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

Canabuc said:


> Boy am I a bud whore.
> Was looking at the headphones section on Costco Canada as I see the JBL club one are on sale.
> 
> Of course now I see the Master and dynamic mw07 plus are suddenly there on the site for 268$Canadian or about 210usd.
> ...


If you're never going to be making phone calls with them, slap on a set of SpinFits to combat some of the midrange bloat and you'll be a happy camper. Otherwise, pass on the MW07. Unless their microphones are dramatically different from the MW07 GO, they've been the one set I've used so far that can't pass the call quality test.

And I finally just submitted a PP claim for the CX400BT. 5 days later, in my hometown, and they're still marked as "In Transit" by UPS. Senn doesn't want to help (only "escalate") so I've done some escalating of my own. Would be nice to have them in the arsenal, but not for this much headache just trying to receive them.


----------



## Canabuc

miserybeforethemusic said:


> If you're never going to be making phone calls with them, slap on a set of SpinFits to combat some of the midrange bloat and you'll be a happy camper. Otherwise, pass on the MW07. Unless their microphones are dramatically different from the MW07 GO, they've been the one set I've used so far that can't pass the call quality test.
> 
> And I finally just submitted a PP claim for the CX400BT. 5 days later, in my hometown, and they're still marked as "In Transit" by UPS. Senn doesn't want to help (only "escalate") so I've done some escalating of my own. Would be nice to have them in the arsenal, but not for this much headache just trying to receive them.


Mics are apparently different they use beam forming mics on the plus be Omni directional on the go.
Also the sound signature is not quite the same. Truth is I'm happy with the Sony or JBL so unless the M&D offer something like a better Sennheiser sound but with more comfort and battery there is no point in even demoing. But the price is very good


----------



## miserybeforethemusic (Feb 24, 2021)

Canabuc said:


> Mics are apparently different they use beam forming mics on the plus be Omni directional on the go.
> Also the sound signature is not quite the same. Truth is I'm happy with the Sony or JBL so unless the M&D offer something like a better Sennheiser sound but with more comfort and battery there is no point in even demoing. But the price is very good


The GO are seriously comfortable, fwiw. I'd put them right behind the UE FITS in that category. The Earfun Free Pro, once you figure out the proper fin/tip combo and Cambridge MTs would go neck-and-neck for comfort behind those two.

Wasn't aware they used beamforming on the Plus, so I guess my opinion on the mic doesn't really apply. Even if the call quality isn't the greatest, I can definitely admit the M&D's SQ is no laughing matter on the right tracks. Feed it stuff with a lot of brass instruments and be prepared to smile. It's even surprisingly competent on poorer-quality recordings. Not a lifesaver, mind you, but it definitely smooths over some of the rough edges in a pleasing way. They do use the Right bud as the primary, though, so you won't have the freedom of switching buds in and out like you can with some other pairs.

Matter of fact, I'm going to put them back in now...

Oh and decided to take a photo of case sizes for those interested. Honestly, they're all pocketable...some are just more pocketable than others.


_Left to Right, Top to Bottom:
1. Soundcore Liberty Air 2
2. M&D MW07 GO
3. Earfun Free Pro
4. Soundcore Liberty Air 2 Pro
5. Cambridge Melomania Touch
6. Drop Move
7. UE FITS_


----------



## erudite

martiniCZ said:


> T1 Lite is a completely different level in terms of sound, it is significantly more balanced and fuller. I had to get used to the Edifier X3 for a long time and only recently did I find eartips that I am happy with.
> But ...
> unfortunately, I found out this morning that they sent me a scum, the earphones are not charging at all in the case. After the first day, they discharged and can no longer be turned on, so I only have a pile of plastic with the inscription FIIl  At first glance, everything works, the case charges, when the lid is closed, the LED lights up and 5V voltage is on the contacts, but the earphones are dead.
> The quality of goods from China has dropped significantly over the last year, it's downright lottery. Not long ago, I had to complain Blon's BL-03, now fill again .
> ...


Did you get a replacement pair of Fiil T1 Lites? If so, were they any more reliable? How do they compare to the wired offerings around the same price point in terms of sound quality?

Has anyone else had any quality issues with Fiil TWs? I've read a number of people saying that the lite ones randomly stop taking a charge.


----------



## C_Lindbergh

I just received the Sennheiser CX400, considering you're only paying 99 EUR I can't give them anything other than a 5/5, they sound as good as the MTW2 for a fraction of the price.  I actually like the case of the CX400 more than the MTW2, it's smaller (thus tiny bit worst battery life) and I'm no fan of the fabric of the MTW2.

However I do really miss Ambient Mode... If only they could have included this feature, I value it much more than ANC. 

Thinking of ordering the Melomania Touch for comparison, 40 EUR extra for a bit more feature, sound-wise I don't espect a huge difference.


----------



## bronco1015

bronco1015 said:


> I didn't even catch that wow. Yes, it is all about implementation etc, i'm always in that camp, but i'm not paying $200 for SBC only. Thanks for pointing that out.





Canabuc said:


> IS not SBC only it has AAC where did that rumor start?? May have just been a mixup. That's good to know it has AAC.


----------



## bronco1015 (Feb 24, 2021)

C_Lindbergh said:


> I just received the Sennheiser CX400, considering you're only paying 99 EUR I can't give them anything other than a 5/5, they sound as good as the MTW2 for a fraction of the price.  I actually like the case of the CX400 more than the MTW2, it's smaller (thus tiny bit worst battery life) and I'm no fan of the fabric of the MTW2.
> 
> However I do really miss Ambient Mode... If only they could have included this feature, I value it much more than ANC.
> 
> Thinking of ordering the Melomania Touch for comparison, 40 EUR extra for a bit more feature, sound-wise I don't espect a huge difference.


Can the CX 400 be eqed to have a similar sparkle in the highs that the MTW1 has? That reason is primarily why i'm selling my MTW2. They just need a bit more treble imo.


----------



## C_Lindbergh

bronco1015 said:


> Can the CX 400 be eqed to have a similar sparkle in the highs that the MTW1 has? That reason is primarily why i'm selling my MTW2. They just need a bit more treble imo.



No idea, I only owned the MTW1 for some weeks before I got sick of the battery drain issue, but the CX400 should sound the same as the MTW2.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

Jabra 85T just arrived. Managed to snag this thanks to another user's mention of Jabra selling refurbished pairs of the 75t and 85t for basement pricing. They did take a while to ship due to the storms, but got across the country (and into my ears) in record time.

Setup process was so much easier this time around. Everything connects. Everything fits. The app works. Multipoint works (the buds even tell you how many devices you have connected). Passthrough works well enough and these really have no differential pressure on either side of the bud...that's pretty nifty. There's definitely a noticeable difference between each of the 3 sound isolation modes, though I prefer leaving it in HearThrough at medium settings for comfort's sake. You really can forget these things are in, but in a different sense than the UEs...those are still the reigning champions of "disappearing TWS" in my book.

I'm a good way off from being able to make impressions on the sound quality. I feel like, based on what I'm hearing, anything I write about now is going to change anyway.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

tinyman392 said:


> Oh crap, I just realized that the UTWS 3 doesn't have a customizable EQ at all, it's just 3 presets


Android + the Neutralizer app?


----------



## tinyman392

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Android + the Neutralizer app?



On Android a full EQ is possible.  Though the downside of using system EQ vs a BT one is that if you switch headphones, you'll have to undo it.  I was hoping that I could EQ my Nightingale with the UTWS3, but it doesn't look like it'll be possible and I'll have to stick with the Fiio LCBT2 with it.  My Euclid don't need EQ, they're actually extremely well tuned out of the box.  

All this said, I'm also on iOS running Apple Music which makes EQing much harder in general.


----------



## bladefd

bronco1015 said:


> Can the CX 400 be eqed to have a similar sparkle in the highs that the MTW1 has? That reason is primarily why i'm selling my MTW2. They just need a bit more treble imo.


You use the same sennheiser app with both so you get access to the same equalizer in there.


----------



## bladefd

C_Lindbergh said:


> I just received the Sennheiser CX400, considering you're only paying 99 EUR I can't give them anything other than a 5/5, they sound as good as the MTW2 for a fraction of the price.  I actually like the case of the CX400 more than the MTW2, it's smaller (thus tiny bit worst battery life) and I'm no fan of the fabric of the MTW2.
> 
> However I do really miss Ambient Mode... If only they could have included this feature, I value it much more than ANC.
> 
> Thinking of ordering the Melomania Touch for comparison, 40 EUR extra for a bit more feature, sound-wise I don't espect a huge difference.


Do you have comfort issues?? I found them uncomfortable and returned after a month. I found Sony xm3 and melomania touch to be much more comfortable


----------



## Tommy C (Feb 24, 2021)

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Jabra 85T just arrived. Managed to snag this thanks to another user's mention of Jabra selling refurbished pairs of the 75t and 85t for basement pricing. They did take a while to ship due to the storms, but got across the country (and into my ears) in record time.
> 
> Setup process was so much easier this time around. Everything connects. Everything fits. The app works. Multipoint works (the buds even tell you how many devices you have connected). Passthrough works well enough and these really have no differential pressure on either side of the bud...that's pretty nifty. There's definitely a noticeable difference between each of the 3 sound isolation modes, though I prefer leaving it in HearThrough at medium settings for comfort's sake. You really can forget these things are in, but in a different sense than the UEs...those are still the reigning champions of "disappearing TWS" in my book.
> 
> I'm a good way off from being able to make impressions on the sound quality. I feel like, based on what I'm hearing, anything I write about now is going to change anyway.



Personally I’m a big fan of Jabra. Not because the SQ is that exceptional it’s more so for the ease of use. Everything works as it should and they are reliable and sound very good with some tweaks.  The user experience is very good, especially nowadays while working from home and many people look for a set of TWS for calls and music.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

Tommy C said:


> Personally I’m a big fan of Jabra. Not because the SQ is that exceptional it’s more so for the ease of use. Everything works as it should and they are reliable and sound very good with some tweaks.  The user experience is very good, especially nowadays while working from home and many people look for a set of TWS for calls and music.


I can wholeheartedly agree with you based on the past couple hours' worth of experience. In terms of raw practicality, the 85t have easily taken the cake. What sealed the deal for me was having a Skype call with my manager (who was mowing the lawn on their end) and me running one of those robotic vacuum cleaners on mine. We were both using Jabras and couldn't hear anything but each others' voices. Now I'm really tempted to grab the USB dongle that allows for improved computer call quality to see how much better they can get.

And I agree with you on them not having exceptional EQ. It's been playing the whole FR pretty well during this demo playlist and they're not fatiguing, but nothing's really stuck out to me like on some of my other top picks. I was going to completely write off the M&Ds until I heard the brass section come in on Mae's _(m) (a) (e)_ EP. For what it's worth, that's been one stellar album for testing headphones. Lots of fun little audio tricks and lots of nuances in the recording.


----------



## Fudgebar

Canabuc said:


> JBL's Tour Series headphones will hit the market later in the year, with the JBL Tour Pro Plus available in black at major retailers and on JBL.com on May 30 for $200.
> 
> Key specs, according to JBL:
> 
> ...


I just recieved the Edifier X5 TWS today....i need a little time to break them in, but very initial impressions is they are close to the X3 in sound quality but a little harsher and not as smooth.  But here's the deal, I got them on Amazon onsale Tuesday for $29 with a -$10 coupon so they were only $19!!!  Bro, for $19 these are a steal!!!!


----------



## Canabuc

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Jabra 85T just arrived. Managed to snag this thanks to another user's mention of Jabra selling refurbished pairs of the 75t and 85t for basement pricing. They did take a while to ship due to the storms, but got across the country (and into my ears) in record time.
> 
> Setup process was so much easier this time around. Everything connects. Everything fits. The app works. Multipoint works (the buds even tell you how many devices you have connected). Passthrough works well enough and these really have no differential pressure on either side of the bud...that's pretty nifty. There's definitely a noticeable difference between each of the 3 sound isolation modes, though I prefer leaving it in HearThrough at medium settings for comfort's sake. You really can forget these things are in, but in a different sense than the UEs...those are still the reigning champions of "disappearing TWS" in my book.
> 
> I'm a good way off from being able to make impressions on the sound quality. I feel like, based on what I'm hearing, anything I write about now is going to change anyway.


I really liked the Jabras as an overall performer. I just couldn't get a fit in my ears that sealed perfectly when lying down causing sound to get tinny. Rest of time I found the treble a bit too rolled off for my taste. And my goal was to get best sounding earbuds first .
If I needed one for calls and good overall package though they are great choice.
My other issue with multipoint was that when I had it paired to multiple things often the audio was playing from the wrong device. 
Also my iPad would have audio dropout every 30 seconds if it was connected to my phone as well. This would go away of I disconnected my phone. This made the multipoint not useful for me.
YMMV.
I think if and when so.e custom oval tips with wax guards come out these will be good.


----------



## Fudgebar

Here is my collection of great TWS in order of sound quality from my opinion

Currently reviewing the Edifier X5 right now

1. EarFun Free Pro -best all around sound signature -Smooth v shape with good detail
2. Edifier X3 - Best sounding vs price performance TWS on market period. These rival the Earfun Pro and may actually have better layering and space between instruments
3. Fiil T1XS- Loudest TWS (but you have to max the volume in the app first) and most flexible EQ options. Very good all around detail
4. MW 07 Go- Nice sounding rich sound. Price is no longer attractive considering what you can get cheaper above
5. Edifier TWS1 - Very good all around sound but doesnt have the texture detail and vocal forwardness of it cheaper brother, the X3
6. Enacfire Air - Clean all around airy sound. Not as loud and impactful as the hard hitting buds in my top 3
7. Senheisser Momentum (version 1) -These were very dissapointing when compared to the top 3. They lacked the bass response and their treble detail was terrible. very very overrated TWS earbuds that have used their strong audiophile history to fool many in the TWS market. I actually returned these even when I got them on the recent Amazon sale of $100. They failed every musical type of head to head battle against the top 3 and their quirky EQ app couldnt salvage them.
8. Enacfire E18 One of my first TWS, very mediocre, ok in a pinch, no bass, a bit harsh on the timbre
9. Geekee Pro - very cheap gaming website recommended TWS buds. Overemphasized bass and muddy mids & high. only in desperation would i use again


----------



## jant71 (Feb 24, 2021)

veraideishal said:


> Qualcomm doesn’t yet provide ambient mode as a standard built-in feature for their Bluetooth audio chips and reference designs, so it’s additional development work to integrate it, which I’m pretty sure that very few brands have the expertise to do (see: Fostex TM2, which has a half-baked implementation of it. Haven’t tried the Shures, but my hopes aren’t high for those either).



Yep, even Fiio is bad with software and need fixes on most releases even though mostly DAP's which are a more complicated thing. Though the latest UTWS3 had an early issue that needed correction as well. At least they were able to give it 26 volume steps instead of the usual 15/16. Fostex never lowering the price nor making any real fixes should be ashamed of themselves. I can see charging what they did at first cause they were all alone, not that I would pay $300, but now they should have a better price and done some tweaking to it. Shure also had an issue but addressed it and started selling again but they don't incorporate volume control so they need to keep working on it. TWS adapters are like this thread when it first started... Are we there yet? The answer is NO. 

Get off tomorrow and gonna test the AT out at the park maybe some wind tests, maybe how the ANC drowns out basketball dribbling and out and about more. Again, you can't tell in pics but...


Love the size of the Victor and had posted that they were smaller than anything else I had. Had this pic vs. some...

Have to add the stem but the AT housings are smaller and shallower fitting. They really did much better than the CKR7TW and CKS5TW big ass clunkers. By the time these come to the states these should be long term tested to see how they hold up.


----------



## C_Lindbergh (Feb 24, 2021)

bladefd said:


> Do you have comfort issues?? I found them uncomfortable and returned after a month. I found Sony xm3 and melomania touch to be much more comfortable



They do look kinda bulky on the outside, but I haven't got any issues with comfort.

I rarely have comfort issues with IEMs tho.


About the Jabras, I really liked how well polished everything was... But they really fell short because of 2 reasons. 

1. You can't use your own eartips, with Sennheiser (among others) this is never a problem since the cases are designed with that in mind. 

2. The limitations of SBC, they sound ok when you're using your phone. 

However since there's no Aptx you're stuck with SBC when using it with your Pc. Thus making the multipoint ability kinda useless, at least for my taste.


----------



## tinyman392

BigZ12 said:


> So the Ikko OH10 Obsidian will work with the 2-pin UTWS3 then? (I've got a real nice offer, seconhand bought in January)



I may take back what I said earlier.  No guarantee that they will fit on something that protrudes out like that.  There are a few connectors that do this.  Sennheiser uses a different plug that also protrudes out and a 2-pin definitely wouldn’t fit into there at all.  So I can’t guarantee that a standard 2-pin (flush) plug will go into those.


----------



## turbobb

Continuing my quest for Low Latency TWS (and not necessarily those that have aptX LL - since there's really only two such models), I wound up giving the Jabees Firefly Vintage a shot. Got it on sale w/10% off and given the features touted aside from the LL (that is not hardware/software dependent):  aptX, AAC, BT 5.2, Noise Canceling (though I'm not sure if this is just for calls) and Transparency mode, wireless charging and even an app (though I haven't been able to get it working) I figured it was worth a shot. Very initial zero burn-in impressions is that these are quite good sounding with very crisp treble and elevated bass (teensy bit bloated but gives it a fun profile). Will need more time with it and formulate a way to measure the latency empirically. More to come...


----------



## dj24

miserybeforethemusic said:


> I can wholeheartedly agree with you based on the past couple hours' worth of experience. In terms of raw practicality, the 85t have easily taken the cake. What sealed the deal for me was having a Skype call with my manager (who was mowing the lawn on their end) and me running one of those robotic vacuum cleaners on mine. We were both using Jabras and couldn't hear anything but each others' voices. Now I'm really *tempted to grab the USB dongle that allows for improved computer call quality* to see how much better they can get.
> 
> And I agree with you on them not having exceptional EQ. It's been playing the whole FR pretty well during this demo playlist and they're not fatiguing, but nothing's really stuck out to me like on some of my other top picks. I was going to completely write off the M&Ds until I heard the brass section come in on Mae's _(m) (a) (e)_ EP. For what it's worth, that's been one stellar album for testing headphones. Lots of fun little audio tricks and lots of nuances in the recording.



I wouldn't hesitate on the dongle especially if you deal with VOIP calls frequently.  I'm using the Jabra 75t active on Cisco Jabber calls anywhere 8- 10 hours a day and from the improved call quality to being able to use your phone (multipoint capable)  It is truly a life saver.  The incredible thing is that it seems to work with all other TWS (except Samsung for some reason.)


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

dj24 said:


> The incredible thing is that it seems to work with all other TWS (except Samsung for some reason.)


I think you just sold me on that statement alone. Didn't think about this, but could be a major boon as I noticed I couldn't successfully pair up my UE FITS to my laptop today. If this dongle is the magic fix, that's reason enough.

Did you order it anywhere in particular?


----------



## Aramaki

bladefd said:


> Do you have comfort issues?? I found them uncomfortable and returned after a month. I found Sony xm3 and melomania touch to be much more comfortable


Very comfy with Spinfit 360's.


----------



## dogucanb

Hello guys. I have a question. I am seriously considering purchasing fiil t1pro but I am a bit hesitant regarding the Chinese language stuff. Does T1XS has a separate app in English? Or do they use the same app. Also do you think that it is a good choice compared to sony wf-1000xm3? I know Sony is almost the double price. Do you think that it deserves the price gap?


----------



## erudite

dogucanb said:


> Hello guys. I have a question. I am seriously considering purchasing fiil t1pro but I am a bit hesitant regarding the Chinese language stuff. Does T1XS has a separate app in English? Or do they use the same app. Also do you think that it is a good choice compared to sony wf-1000xm3? I know Sony is almost the double price. Do you think that it deserves the price gap?



The T1XS has an English app. The other versions may get an English app in the future.

There are guides on YouTube on how to use the Chinese app - it's not difficult.

I went for the T1 Lite, they miss some features of the T1 pro but are half the price with apparently better sound quality.

Google T1 Lite review and you will find a comparative review on a site called scarbir.


----------



## dogucanb

erudite said:


> The T1XS has an English app. The other versions may get an English app in the future.
> 
> There are guides on YouTube on how to use the Chinese app - it's not difficult.
> 
> ...


I have read almost all reviews of scarbir ). Got Mpow X3 (because of a deal) but got a bit disappointed. Therefore I wanted to ask you guys. Thanks a lot for the response!


----------



## DigDub

DigDub said:


> Fiil android app and translation for use with t1 pro and lite as they don't have English app support yet.
> 
> Download apk from
> http://fiil.cn/cn/download.php


For those who needs translation with the chinese Fiil app.


----------



## bronco1015

bladefd said:


> You use the same sennheiser app with both so you get access to the same equalizer in there.


Right, was just trying to see if the CX was voiced similar to the MTW1 or 2. i figured it would be the 2, but was holding out hope.


----------



## bronco1015

Tommy C said:


> Personally I’m a big fan of Jabra. Not because the SQ is that exceptional it’s more so for the ease of use. Everything works as it should and they are reliable and sound very good with some tweaks.  The user experience is very good, especially nowadays while working from home and many people look for a set of TWS for calls and music.


I totally agree. last year i got both the 85 T and Evolve 2 85 sent to me for review, and they both do so many things well out of the box. I gifted the 85T to my Mom but thinking of picking a pair up. as is, i use the evolve 2 85 for work. i can have music playing at a nice volume from a Google home about 6 feet from my desk, have sideTone set to 100% and hear my co workers and the music perfectly, and no one on the other end hears the music playing at all. makes me wonder how effective the 85T might be. I tested it for call quality in a number of scenarios, but when i first tried this with the Evolve 2 85 it worked much better than i thought it would. This is another scenario i'll add going forward for all my reviews.


----------



## Aramaki

bronco1015 said:


> Right, was just trying to see if the CX was voiced similar to the MTW1 or 2. i figured it would be the 2, but was holding out hope.


Same drivers as MTW2..


----------



## guido

I am still not sure why anyone with audiophile tendencies would still pursue standard offerings of wireless IEMs when with as little as 160 euros you can do the FiiO UTWS3 adapters and a hybrid 10 driver IEM like the KZ ZAX...with many other options even cheaper [or more expensive]

The combo is on a completely different level to the Sony WF1000-XM3 or MTW...for less money....


----------



## bronco1015

turbobb said:


> Continuing my quest for Low Latency TWS (and not necessarily those that have aptX LL - since there's really only two such models), I wound up giving the Jabees Firefly Vintage a shot. Got it on sale w/10% off and given the features touted aside from the LL (that is not hardware/software dependent):  aptX, AAC, BT 5.2, Noise Canceling (though I'm not sure if this is just for calls) and Transparency mode, wireless charging and even an app (though I haven't been able to get it working) I figured it was worth a shot. Very initial zero burn-in impressions is that these are quite good sounding with very crisp treble and elevated bass (teensy bit bloated but gives it a fun profile). Will need more time with it and formulate a way to measure the latency empirically. More to come...


I just got these last night, i'm hoping that bass setles down after a while. i couldn't get ANC of any kind to work, it may just be for background noise of calls. controls i've gotten to work, press and hold on each for 3 seconds or so for assistant, press once on left or right for volume down and up respectively, there is beeping with each volume step, WHYYYY!? 2 taps for play-pause on each, 3 taps on left for track back and 3 on right for track forward.


----------



## turbobb (Feb 25, 2021)

bronco1015 said:


> I just got these last night, i'm hoping that bass setles down after a while. i couldn't get ANC of any kind to work, it may just be for background noise of calls. controls i've gotten to work, press and hold on each for 3 seconds or so for assistant, press once on left or right for volume down and up respectively, there is beeping with each volume step, WHYYYY!? 2 taps for play-pause on each, 3 taps on left for track back and 3 on right for track forward.


Looking forward to your impressions. Re: ANC, I suspect you're right in that it's just for calls. As for the controls, they are interesting in that it's a hybrid touch/physical button - first of its kind that I've experienced and kinda cool but also flaky. The Transparency (which by the way is not great due to excessive white noise - but apparently there are three different modes that can be accessed via the app that I can't get to work on either Android or iOS despite resetting the buds as suggested by Jabees support) and Gaming modes can only be invoked by a physical press rather than the touch controls. Agreed that I could also do without the beeping for volume but do appreciate the chime indicating on/off of the Transparency/Gaming modes - what I especially can't stand is the full blast shouting every time these buds are connected/disconnected or goes into pairing mode - wish one could tone that down. However as for the SQ, still really enjoying it.


----------



## TK33

guido said:


> I am still not sure why anyone with audiophile tendencies would still pursue standard offerings of wireless IEMs when with as little as 160 euros you can do the FiiO UTWS3 adapters and a hybrid 10 driver IEM like the KZ ZAX...with many other options even cheaper [or more expensive]
> 
> The combo is on a completely different level to the Sony WF1000-XM3 or MTW...for less money....


Convenience.  I know a lot of people here like those adapters but they are not for everyone.  Personally, I like the form factor of what you call "standard" true wireless and the pocketability during commutes.  They also have great features (like ambient modes which are great for hearing train and boarding announcements). Pre COVID, I used wired for when I actually cared about SQ. Now with COVID, it is annoying enough wearing a mask with glasses...I can't imagine having three things hooked on my ear.  I would still rather use wired at that point (I bought two V60 phones recently to make sure I can do that for a few more years).  My Galaxy Buds Live with their open design have been getting the most use these days with being on calls all day and not having to touch them when I am out and about running errands (they go in my ear before I leave and come out after I get back home).


----------



## bronco1015

guido said:


> I am still not sure why anyone with audiophile tendencies would still pursue standard offerings of wireless IEMs when with as little as 160 euros you can do the FiiO UTWS3 adapters and a hybrid 10 driver IEM like the KZ ZAX...with many other options even cheaper [or more expensive]
> 
> The combo is on a completely different level to the Sony WF1000-XM3 or MTW...for less money....


it's a great question. I think for me i've owned some nice iems in the past, but i generally prefer over ears. When i first started down this audio rabbit hole, my first purchases were headphones. I'd had plenty experience with cheap iems and felt at the time that the gap from the iems i'd used previously to something like the SE535 was to large and to much to pay. I'd heard the 215, XBAH1 and others and i just felt my money was better spent on headphones. Despite making to many purchases, i've largely stuck to my unofficial parameters. no more than $300 for an iem; wired, true wireless etc. No more than $400 for a Bluetooth over ear etc. Following this has served me well because i've found a number of products tuned differently that i enjoy, and they all have convenience of some kind, which brings me back to True Wireless. if i can get a sound that i'd enjoy for an extended amount of time while away from home, and it has great ambient, ANNC etc; than i am interested. IF it only has sq i enjoy, than i spend a lot less. Having said all that, there are so many wired iems at great prices these days and i've been looking at different BT adaptors as well.


----------



## bronco1015 (Feb 25, 2021)

turbobb said:


> Looking forward to your impressions. Re: ANC, I suspect you're right in that it's just for calls. As for the controls, they are interesting in that it's a hybrid touch/physical button - first of its kind that I've experienced and kinda cool but also flaky. The Transparency (which by the way is not great due to excessive white noise - but apparently there are three different modes that can be accessed via the app that I can't get to work on either Android or iOS despite resetting the buds as suggested by Jabees support) and Gaming modes can only be invoked by a physical press rather than the touch controls. Agreed that I could also do without the beeping for volume but do appreciate the chime indicating on/off of the Transparency/Gaming modes - what I especially can't stand is the full blast shouting every time these buds are connected/disconnected or goes into pairing mode - wish one could tone that down. However as for the SQ, still really enjoying it.


Same here on the sq. Yeah i'll have to play with the functions more. That app is garbage. it doesn't crash for me, it is just unresponsive.
Forgot to mention, the only other twe i've seen with hybrid controls is the BackBeat Pro 5100 from plantronics. and that Ambient has a ton of white noise, like the JLab Epic Air Sport ANC.


----------



## tinyman392

bronco1015 said:


> it's a great question. I think for me i've owned some nice iems in the past, but i generally prefer over ears. When i first started down this audio rabbit hole, my first purchases were headphones. I'd had plenty experience with cheap iems and felt at the time that the gap from the iems i'd used previously to something like the SE535 was to large and to much to pay. I'd heard the 215, XBAH1 and others and i just felt my money was better spent on headphones. Despite making to many purchases, i've largely stuck to my unofficial parameters. no more than $300 for an iem; wired, true wireless etc. No more than $400 for a Bluetooth over ear etc. Following this has served me well because i've found a number of products tuned differently that i enjoy, and they all have convenience of some kind, which brings me back to True Wireless. if i can get a sound that i'd enjoy for an extended amount of time while away from home, and it has great ambient, ANNC etc; than i am interested. IF it only has sq i enjoy, than i spend a lot less. Having said all that, there are so many wired iems at great prices these days and i've been looking at different BT adaptors as well.



One of the nice things about using an adapter is that you can repurpose your old IEMs if you'd like.  So something like your SE215 could be repurposed into an TWS IEM.  The downside is that you cannot get ANC with an adapter right now and implementing such a system would be difficult.  Most of the adapters on the market do filter out background noise for calls though, but with call quality your mileage may vary.  

One thing I will note is that when you're looking at ANC, transparency, etc. features you will end up sacrificing sound quality for the price to get those features since it does require R&D and hardware to make work.  In my experiences, if a headphone supports ANC, transparency, etc. the actual SQ of the headphone is comparable to another non-ANC headphone that is ¼-½ the advertised price of the ANC one.


----------



## bronco1015

tinyman392 said:


> One of the nice things about using an adapter is that you can repurpose your old IEMs if you'd like.  So something like your SE215 could be repurposed into an TWS IEM.  The downside is that you cannot get ANC with an adapter right now and implementing such a system would be difficult.  Most of the adapters on the market do filter out background noise for calls though, but with call quality your mileage may vary.
> 
> One thing I will note is that when you're looking at ANC, transparency, etc. features you will end up sacrificing sound quality for the price to get those features since it does require R&D and hardware to make work.  In my experiences, if a headphone supports ANC, transparency, etc. the actual SQ of the headphone is comparable to another non-ANC headphone that is ¼-½ the advertised price of the ANC one.


Great points for sure. Ideally i would have 1 nice twe, another backup and a good adaptor with a nice set of IEMs. AS nice as ANC and Ambient are, sq is always first for me. The other 2 don't have to be at the same level but for the money i do think the right adaptor iem combo goes a lot further.


----------



## Caipirina

Those who know the Sony SP700N and know how they are worn might get a chuckle out of this  
From Spiderman - far from home


----------



## C_Lindbergh

guido said:


> I am still not sure why anyone with audiophile tendencies would still pursue standard offerings of wireless IEMs when with as little as 160 euros you can do the FiiO UTWS3 adapters and a hybrid 10 driver IEM like the KZ ZAX...with many other options even cheaper [or more expensive]
> 
> The combo is on a completely different level to the Sony WF1000-XM3 or MTW...for less money....



1. The case for the UTWS3 is huge
2. No IP-rating 
3. Adapters are slightly bulky
4. No ANC
5 No Ambient Mode

TWS are a different product category, obviously they wont sound as good as proper IEMs, but there are other advantages


----------



## dweaver (Feb 25, 2021)

Caipirina said:


> Those who know the Sony SP700N and know how they are worn might get a chuckle out of this
> From Spiderman - far from home


how did he even get them in his ears that way? LOL

I watched a Shirley Maclean movie where she's a rich mean old lady who discovers herself throughout the movie. At one point she decides to become a disc jockey at a radio station and she's wearing a pair of Sony MDR-Z7 headphones and in one scene she is wearing them correctly and then a minute later she has them on backwards. Cracked me up when I saw it


----------



## tinyman392 (Feb 25, 2021)

C_Lindbergh said:


> 1. The case for the UTWS3 is huge
> 2. No IP-rating
> 3. Adapters are slightly bulky
> 4. No ANC
> ...



Fiio UTWS3 is IPX4 rated.  The rest is true, however.  I will admit though, that a good pair of IEMs will provide enough passive isolation where ANC may not be needed entirely.  Especially once music is playing.  This is form factor and shape dependent though.  You could in theory also attach an open-backed IEM as well if you don’t need the isolation and want spacial awareness.  But it does become an either-or scenario (So you don’t get the flexibility).


----------



## guido

C


C_Lindbergh said:


> 1. The case for the UTWS3 is huge
> 2. No IP-rating
> 3. Adapters are slightly bulky
> 4. No ANC
> ...



-Case is not much bigger than the Sony case
-IPX4 rated
-ANC on IEMs not really needed in my opinion...was not great on the Sonys anyway
-they may be bulky but are way more comfy than the Sonys and MTW that I had and definitely feel more secure and wont fall out..
-ambient mode...never used it..


----------



## Thesonofkrypton (Feb 25, 2021)

.


----------



## Thesonofkrypton

guido said:


> I am still not sure why anyone with audiophile tendencies would still pursue standard offerings of wireless IEMs when with as little as 160 euros you can do the FiiO UTWS3 adapters and a hybrid 10 driver IEM like the KZ ZAX...with many other options even cheaper [or more expensive]
> 
> The combo is on a completely different level to the Sony WF1000-XM3 or MTW...for less money....



Because people have different requirements simple lol
Is that setup water resistant, does it fold up small, does it have ANC, etc.  I have the end all Z1R earphones but I wouldn't use them on a plane/commuting.


----------



## C_Lindbergh (Feb 25, 2021)

guido said:


> C
> 
> 
> -Case is not much bigger than the Sony case
> ...



- Case is still huge compared to almost every TWS, meaning they aren't that portable, the Sony's aren't really representative.
- The actual IEM's aren't IP-rated tho...Adapters aren't in any risk of getting sweat inside them anyway
- ANC is quite useful to plenty of people
- The adapter isn't what you insert in your ear... So obviously they will be more comfy... The adapter paired with an IEM is way more bulky than just a TWS
- Again, plenty of people finds Ambient Mode quite useful when you're out and about.

I think you guys don't understand that some of us really likes TWS when we're outside our home, ANC, Ambient Mode, IP-rating, portable case etc, all becomes very useful features then.
Just compare the size of the cases, my Sennheiser CX400BT measures:
59 x 33.8 x 42.3 mm

Whilst the UTWS3 measures:
93.5x71.1x34.6 mm

The difference in size is quite stark, and there are TWS with even smaller cases than my CX400BT.

I'm still a huge fan of regular IEM's when im at home.


----------



## voicemaster

Usually I use my BT20s pro more at home and my galaxy buds pro for outside.


----------



## SemiAudiophile

guido said:


> I am still not sure why anyone with audiophile tendencies would still pursue standard offerings of wireless IEMs when with as little as 160 euros you can do the FiiO UTWS3 adapters and a hybrid 10 driver IEM like the KZ ZAX...with many other options even cheaper [or more expensive]
> 
> The combo is on a completely different level to the Sony WF1000-XM3 or MTW...for less money....


For me, resolution/detail is not the ultimate factor when deciding on a pair of headphones. It's an important factor. But I personally like the house sound of Grado's, Senns...so it was an easy decision for me when they came out with TWS.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

Just pulled the trigger on that Jabra USB adapter. Bought from them directly, so hoping that keeps shipping quick. Pretty excited at the prospect of using the UEs with my work laptop


----------



## Caipirina

dweaver said:


> how did he even get them in his ears that way? LOL
> 
> I watched a Shirley Maclean movie where she's a rich mean old lady who discovers herself throughout the movie. At one point she decides to become a disc jockey at a radio station and she's wearing a pair of Sony MDR-Z7 headphones and in one scene she is wearing them correctly and then a minute later she has them on backwards. Cracked me up when I saw it



I got my pair out and tried .. yes, you can get them to somehow hold, but I doubt you get a seal / good sound ...  he is at least wearing the right one on the right side  

Reminds me of first appearances of iphones (2007) in TV shows, and people were apparently holding dummies upside down


----------



## KPzypher

guido said:


> I am still not sure why anyone with audiophile tendencies would still pursue standard offerings of wireless IEMs when with as little as 160 euros you can do the FiiO UTWS3 adapters and a hybrid 10 driver IEM like the KZ ZAX...with many other options even cheaper [or more expensive]
> 
> The combo is on a completely different level to the Sony WF1000-XM3 or MTW...for less money....



Because they look hideous.

Why would anyone with "audiophile tendencies" (your words) look at wireless to begin with? It's all about convenience and form factor, at least for me.  And those look absolutely horrible.  If I'm so concerned about squeezing out every last ounce of performance from wireless, best to just remain wired.


----------



## guido

because I am an audiophile that likes to walk around while I listen to audiophile quality music...and look hideous at the same time..


----------



## tinyman392

KPzypher said:


> Because they look hideous.
> 
> Why would anyone with "audiophile tendencies" (your words) look at wireless to begin with? It's all about convenience and form factor, at least for me.  And those look absolutely horrible.  If I'm so concerned about squeezing out every last ounce of performance from wireless, best to just remain wired.



Wireless codecs are more or less transparent to lossless nowadays with 256 AAC and APT-X.  No, they are not truly lossless, but you'd be hard-pressed to hear the differences, especially with the use case for such systems (on the go/casual listening).  To be honest, I could name a few headphones that are 5-6 years old that have adequate BT quality.  At the end of the day, the DAC and amp is actually what's going to make the bigger difference when it comes to audio quality if you're talking source device vs BT, and even then the driver and headphone itself will make an even bigger difference.  The bottleneck of wireless/wired is a lot smaller than a lot of people seem to think, especially when it comes to IEMs which are relatively easy to drive generally (there are exceptions, but they're far and few between).


----------



## Tommy C

guido said:


> because I am an audiophile that likes to walk around while I listen to audiophile quality music...and look hideous at the same time..



When I’m out and about walking downtown or exercising or at home doing dishes, cleaning up or doing some yard work, I don’t care about the best sound I can possibly squeeze. My main priority is convenience which you get with a good set of TWS. Of course sound quality is very important to most people here but it may not be a priority based on their use case.


----------



## tinyman392

Another note regarding water resistance, I know someone mentioned that although the adapter is protected when it shouldn't need it as much, the IEM itself is not.  

The adapter is the part with more electronics, more processors, and a battery.  It needs more protection than the IEM itself; despite it being cheaper.
In my days at Head-Fi I don't think I can remember one instance where an IEM's housing (IE with a removable cable) died due to water or sweat.  I'd be very hard pressed to find one, and even if you do, I'd also argue that your chances of having that happen is about the same as the chances of having an IPX rated device fail due to water or sweat in the environment it is rated for.  That said, if anyone has a story of their IEM (IEM not the cable) due to sweat/splash I would love to hear it.  I was very active (headphone reviewer) about a decade ago on here for a good 5-ish years before taking a hiatus from headphones and can't remember any stories of this happening.  IPX ratings weren't huge in the headphone market at the time as they only just started to take off in fitness focused headphones towards the end of that stint.  
Keep in mind that just because something isn't IPX4 rated doesn't mean a splash of water will instantly kill it.  It just means that it hasn't been tested in the IPX4 environment or the company didn't want to go through the licensing costs to do so.  The year or two before Apple started IPX rating their iPhones, iFixit could easily see the gaskets and other water resistance measures Apple was putting into their devices.  Even without the IPX rating, there was something in place.  

If I'm not mistaken, the only AirPod right now that is IPX rated is the AirPods Pro (water damage is still not covered under warranty); the AirPods Max, AirPods, and AirPods 2 don't seem to hold any rating.  The Max has some measures to deal with water resistance (gaskets here and there to keep water out, but I probably wouldn't trust them in water but would trust them in workouts and stuff.  The AirPods and AirPods 2 have more than enough glue in them to keep them protected from the elements.


----------



## KPzypher

tinyman392 said:


> Wireless codecs are more or less transparent to lossless nowadays with 256 AAC and APT-X.  No, they are not truly lossless, but you'd be hard-pressed to hear the differences, especially with the use case for such systems (on the go/casual listening).  To be honest, I could name a few headphones that are 5-6 years old that have adequate BT quality.  At the end of the day, the DAC and amp is actually what's going to make the bigger difference when it comes to audio quality if you're talking source device vs BT, and even then the driver and headphone itself will make an even bigger difference.  The bottleneck of wireless/wired is a lot smaller than a lot of people seem to think, especially when it comes to IEMs which are relatively easy to drive generally (there are exceptions, but they're far and few between).



I'm not too picky with codecs in terms of maximum supported bitrate. 
Other aspects and Implementation on either end of the devices matter more. AAC  on IOS sounds better than AptX on Android and that's fairly well documented.  The bigger issues with TWS in general IMO are things like inherent noise, resonance, terrible DSP, tonal balance, timbre, and etc.  And looking from that angle, there still exist pretty significant gap between wired and wireles IMO.

With that being said, they sound 'good enough' (considering the convenience factor) for me to make the transition to wireless for most occasions.  Nowadays, I'm less concerned for technicality (imaging, resolution, soundstage, etc.), as long as they are tonally balanced with good timbre, and near 'my definition' of 'reference.'  But that's just me and to each his/her own.


----------



## clerkpalmer

tinyman392 said:


> Wireless codecs are more or less transparent to lossless nowadays with 256 AAC and APT-X.  No, they are not truly lossless, but you'd be hard-pressed to hear the differences, especially with the use case for such systems (on the go/casual listening).  To be honest, I could name a few headphones that are 5-6 years old that have adequate BT quality.  At the end of the day, the DAC and amp is actually what's going to make the bigger difference when it comes to audio quality if you're talking source device vs BT, and even then the driver and headphone itself will make an even bigger difference.  The bottleneck of wireless/wired is a lot smaller than a lot of people seem to think, especially when it comes to IEMs which are relatively easy to drive generally (there are exceptions, but they're far and few between).


I’m not there yet. I’ve heard this argument but I still think there is a decent gap between wired and BT. To give an example, my Ananda BT sounds MUCH better wired into an iPhone than wireless. The DAC and the AMP are exactly the same. It is more dynamic and less compressed whether I’m using AAC or LDAC. I still pick wired every time if the use case permits. I realize you are discussing iems so maybe there the gap is smaller.


----------



## HiFiHawaii808 (Feb 25, 2021)

clerkpalmer said:


> I’m not there yet. I’ve heard this argument but I still think there is a decent gap between wired and BT. To give an example, my Ananda BT sounds MUCH better wired into an iPhone than wireless. The DAC and the AMP are exactly the same. It is more dynamic and less compressed whether I’m using AAC or LDAC. I still pick wired every time if the use case permits. I realize you are discussing iems so maybe there the gap is smaller.


I agree with you.   There is a clear sound quality gap between BT and wired.   I know because I test it every single day on a 2 hour walk.   I want to keep the weight down, so I alternate between using the Fiio UTWS3 with my Blessing 2 Dusk IEMs and using a Lotoo Paw S1 with a cable.    I have been choosing the Lotoo 80% or more of the time.   Perhaps the Lotoo is just a lot better than the Fiio and that accounts for more of the difference in quality.  But, I still tend to listen wired when I get back home.


----------



## tinyman392 (Feb 25, 2021)

clerkpalmer said:


> I’m not there yet. I’ve heard this argument but I still think there is a decent gap between wired and BT. To give an example, my Ananda BT sounds MUCH better wired into an iPhone than wireless. The DAC and the AMP are exactly the same. It is more dynamic and less compressed whether I’m using AAC or LDAC. I still pick wired every time if the use case permits. I realize you are discussing iems so maybe there the gap is smaller.



The differences are there and clear, they're small though and not super huge IMO; it's a tradeoff of bass thickness and better volume control.  I'd argue that the differences you're hearing is actually the differences in DAC DSP.  I explained this a bit in the Ananda BT thread, but where the processing actually happens is important as well.  Wired you end up with the following sound in -> decoding -> mixing (system sounds, etc.) -> USB out -> USB in -> DAC (passive) -> amp.  In a wireless setup you end up with the following sound in -> decoding -> mixing (system sounds ,etc.) -> encoding -> BT out -> BT in -> DAC -> decoding -> amp.  I still have a pressing feeling that the differences you have here are a difference in DAC DSP still as the digital audio is actually being processed at a different area.

I'll admit that I'm running off of an iPhone right now which tends to produce a brighter sound in general (most of the DACs and amps Apple employ do this) while most 3rd party DACs and amps tend to have a warmer tilt to them.

The other thing to keep in mind is that I'm not driving any of these things off of a dedicated DAC/amp, rather the simple lightning based/packaged ones.  I could plug into my HA-2 SE (which gives my headphones a warm tilt in comparison to the iPhone adapter), but at that point it's not really a fair comparison as that's not really what it's aiming to replace.  Especially if we're talking IEMs.

Edit:the difference is in where the DSP is done rather than the DAC.


----------



## clerkpalmer

tinyman392 said:


> The differences are there and clear, they're small though and not super huge IMO; it's a tradeoff of bass thickness and better volume control.  I'd argue that the differences you're hearing is actually the differences in DAC.  I explained this a bit in the Ananda BT thread, but where the processing actually happens is important as well.  Wired you end up with the following sound in -> decoding -> mixing (system sounds, etc.) -> USB out -> USB in -> DAC (passive) -> amp.  In a wireless setup you end up with the following sound in -> decoding -> mixing (system sounds ,etc.) -> encoding -> BT out -> BT in -> DAC -> decoding -> amp.  I still have a pressing feeling that the differences you have here are a difference in DAC still as the digital audio is actually being processed at a different area.
> 
> I'll admit that I'm running off of an iPhone right now which tends to produce a brighter sound in general (most of the DACs and amps Apple employ do this) while most 3rd party DACs and amps tend to have a warmer tilt to them.
> 
> The other thing to keep in mind is that I'm not driving any of these things off of a dedicated DAC/amp, rather the simple lightning based/packaged ones.  I could plug into my HA-2 SE (which gives my headphones a warm tilt in comparison to the iPhone adapter), but at that point it's not really a fair comparison as that's not really what it's aiming to replace.  Especially if we're talking IEMs.


I’m not sure why the DAC is different in my setup between wired and wireless but maybe I’m just not understanding. In any event I am hearing dynamics and less compression. Not sure that’s DAC thing. I still think the gap is big enough that I’m not going to give up wired. But certainly others may find wireless good enough.


----------



## tinyman392 (Feb 25, 2021)

clerkpalmer said:


> I’m not sure why the DAC is different in my setup between wired and wireless but maybe I’m just not understanding. In any event I am hearing dynamics and less compression. Not sure that’s DAC thing. I still think the gap is big enough that I’m not going to give up wired. But certainly others may find wireless good enough.



The DAC itself on the headphone doesn't change.  But where the digital audio processing does.  When in wired mode, the source does the majority (all) of the digital processing and the DAC on the headphone runs more or less passive and acts like a pipe.  In wireless, the source does the packaging but the DAC then needs to unpackaged and process it in which case you're actually hearing the DAC doing its thing.

Edit: crap, DAC was the wrong term to use, DSP is the proper term.  Where the DSP is being done changes and that's likely what you're hearing.


----------



## clerkpalmer

tinyman392 said:


> The DAC itself on the headphone doesn't change.  But where the digital audio processing does.  When in wired mode, the source does the majority (all) of the digital processing and the DAC on the headphone runs more or less passive and acts like a pipe.  In wireless, the source does the packaging but the DAC then needs to unpackaged and process it in which case you're actually hearing the DAC doing its thing.
> 
> Edit: crap, DAC was the wrong term to use, DSP is the proper term.  Where the DSP is being done changes and that's likely what you're hearing.


I don’t think this is right.  There should be no dsp in the iPhone output. That would be a major no no.  So I don’t think dsp is the reason the wired sounds better. I just think the wired signal is cleaner and obviously no compression using hi res files.


----------



## dj24 (Feb 25, 2021)

bronco1015 said:


> I totally agree. last year i got both the 85 T and Evolve 2 85 sent to me for review, and they both do so many things well out of the box. I gifted the 85T to my Mom but thinking of picking a pair up. as is, i use the evolve 2 85 for work. i can have music playing at a nice volume from a Google home about 6 feet from my desk, have sideTone set to 100% and hear my co workers and the music perfectly, and no one on the other end hears the music playing at all. makes me wonder how effective the 85T might be. I tested it for call quality in a number of scenarios, but when i first tried this with the Evolve 2 85 it worked much better than i thought it would. This is another scenario i'll add going forward for all my reviews.



Do you use the jabra link with with your Evolve 2?  The one thing I'm not sure of while using the Jabra Link (since it acts as a soundcard) is if the noise cancellation works for the other party during calls just as you described it with your music scenario.  Hopefully you can test this with the 85t as well if you do end up getting it.


----------



## tinyman392 (Feb 25, 2021)

clerkpalmer said:


> I don’t think this is right.  There should be no dsp in the iPhone output. That would be a major no no.  So I don’t think dsp is the reason the wired sounds better. I just think the wired signal is cleaner and obviously no compression using hi res files.



To get the iPhone output, DSP must be done.  The sound must be mixed at some point.  If I'm listening to music on my iPhone and an email comes in while I'm typing away I'll hear the email notification sound, clicking, and music all at the same time.  This can only happen if the 3 signals have been mixed somehow.  I'd also argue that the encoding and decoding of different file formats would also be considered DSP.  For lossy formats this is likely a much bigger deal as for lossless formats it should create identical digital output (but this also depends on how good it is).  But both require processing of a compressed audio format (whether lossy or lossless) to the waveform (this I do categorize as DSP since you're digitally processing to create a signal).

I'm using lossy files (AAC 256) for input wired and wireless on my Ananda BT and hear similar differences that you pick up on, so it definitely has less to do with how hi-resolution the files are since I'm limited to 256 AAC.  The only major differences I could be hearing is the additional encoding by the source and the decoding on the headphones.  Somewhere in that chain, the input sound for the DAC is changing with a warmer tilt.  The differences you hear are likely not the hardware; it's likely the software.


----------



## clerkpalmer

tinyman392 said:


> To get the iPhone output, DSP must be done.  The sound must be mixed at some point.  If I'm listening to music on my iPhone and an email comes in while I'm typing away I'll hear the email notification sound, clicking, and music all at the same time.  This can only happen if the 3 signals have been mixed somehow.  I'd also argue that the encoding and decoding of different file formats would also be considered DSP.  For lossy formats this is likely a much bigger deal as for lossless formats it should create identical digital output (but this also depends on how good it is).
> 
> I'm using lossy files (AAC 256) for input wired and wireless on my Ananda BT and hear similar differences that you pick up on, so it definitely has less to do with how hi-resolution the files are since I'm limited to 256 AAC.  The only major differences I could be hearing is the additional encoding by the source and the decoding on the headphones.  Somewhere in that chain, the input sound for the DAC is changing.  The differences you hear are likely not the hardware; it's likely the software.


I don’t agree here. Even if you are using lossy files wired, the signal path is still cleaner wired. I am chalking this up to wired sounding better than wireless. Obviously you can disagree with me. There’s no reason why the iPhone would be be using dsp to alter the sound unless we disagree on what dsp is. To me dsp is used to change the sound. For instance, Audeze uses dsp in the cipher cable to alter the sound of the isine versus passive wired.


----------



## dj24

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Just pulled the trigger on that Jabra USB adapter. Bought from them directly, so hoping that keeps shipping quick. Pretty excited at the prospect of using the UEs with my work laptop



Just saw your last post asking where I purchased them from... Mine was purchased months ago and they aren't on sale currently from that same vendor.  Hope you bought the 380 since it's the latest one with bluetooth 5.0


----------



## miserybeforethemusic (Feb 25, 2021)

dj24 said:


> Do you use the jabra link with with your Evolve 2?  The one thing I'm not sure of while using the Jabra Link (since it acts as a soundcard) is if the noise cancellation works for the other party during calls just as you described it with your music scenario.  Hopefully you can test this with the 85t as well if you do end up getting it.


I've got a Link 380 on its way. Will do my best to provide feedback on my personal experience getting it to work with the 85t as well as my UE FITS, which I'm hoping I can finally pair to a computer in stereo. Jabra has mentioned on other forums that there are some software features that don't work with their TWS since those are intended for mobile applications.


clerkpalmer said:


> I don’t agree here. Even if you are using lossy files wired, the signal path is still cleaner wired. I am chalking this up to wired sounding better than wireless. Obviously you can disagree with me. There’s no reason why the iPhone would be be using dsp to alter the sound unless we disagree on what dsp is. To me dsp is used to change the sound. For instance, Audeze uses dsp in the cipher cable to alter the sound of the isine versus passive wired.


There's a combination of factors at play here. Zooming in on the DSP utilization (which, technically, @tinyman392 is correct about) kinda does us all a disservice. I can report similar experiences that you've had with the Ananda, just with the Mobius instead. LDAC is definitely the preferred codec, but I don't think the Mobius were really capable of fully utilizing LDAC without a lot of dropouts. Even in that case, there's definitely a perceivable difference between wired and wireless. I always thought it had to do with amplification, though. Just too many variables to reasonably isolate, which makes thinking about this kinda stuff fun mental floss, but not much more.


dj24 said:


> Just saw your last post asking where I purchased them from... Mine was purchased months ago and they aren't on sale currently from that same vendor.  Hope you bought the 380 since it's the latest one with bluetooth 5.0


Yep, got the Link 380 from them directly. Saw a couple places that were selling them at $70-80, but I'd rather not have to deal with more middlemen.


----------



## tinyman392 (Feb 25, 2021)

clerkpalmer said:


> I don’t agree here. Even if you are using lossy files wired, the signal path is still cleaner wired. I am chalking this up to wired sounding better than wireless. Obviously you can disagree with me. There’s no reason why the iPhone would be be using dsp to alter the sound unless we disagree on what dsp is. To me dsp is used to change the sound. For instance, Audeze uses dsp in the cipher cable to alter the sound of the isine versus passive wired.



DSP is any sort of digital signal processing.  It's intent doesn't need to be to alter the sound.  The mere act of converting AAC to its waveform or converting FLAC to its waveform (yes that conversion needs to be done since FLAC is compressed) is signal processing since the end goal is to produce a signal; since it's done in the digital realm, it's digital signal processing.

Even if you don't call that DSP, it's still a software thing (vs a hardware issue).  The hardware hasn't changed and we're still hearing differences.  We're in a digital scope here, there is no such thing as a dirty or clean signal, it's 0's and 1's and likely with check bits to make sure everything is Kosher.  Edit: or maybe Monster's marketing was right and the signal from my HDMI cables is dirty and I should use some gold plated stuff.

Edit 2: for all we know, the only differences we could be here is the encoding and decoding of the audio codec being used by the headphones.  It's the most likely culprit IMO.  This step is completely bypassed when you are wired.  But both of these fall under software vs hardware.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

tinyman392 said:


> DSP is any sort of digital signal processing.  It's intent doesn't need to be to alter the sound.  The mere act of converting AAC to its waveform or converting FLAC to its waveform (yes that conversion needs to be done since FLAC is compressed) is signal processing since the end goal is to produce a signal; since it's done in the digital realm, it's digital signal processing.
> 
> Even if you don't call that DSP, it's still a software thing (vs a hardware issue).  The hardware hasn't changed and we're still hearing differences.  We're in a digital scope here, there is no such thing as a dirty or clean signal, it's 0's and 1's and likely with check bits to make sure everything is Kosher.


Android/UAPP handles this (edit: meaning signal coversion/routing) really cleverly, from what I've experienced. Unfortunately, sometimes it takes out volume control on the buds while you're listening to music, but amplification/dynamics/etc all seem to improve when playing the same locally-stored and streamed stuff. If someone could figure out an iOS equivalent to that, they'd make bank. Unfortunately, doesn't sound like the developer wants to (or might even be able to) provide a solution like this for the Apple folk. Shame, too, because that's the most-used app on my phone these days. Well worth the purchase.


----------



## clerkpalmer

tinyman392 said:


> DSP is any sort of digital signal processing.  It's intent doesn't need to be to alter the sound.  The mere act of converting AAC to its waveform or converting FLAC to its waveform (yes that conversion needs to be done since FLAC is compressed) is signal processing since the end goal is to produce a signal; since it's done in the digital realm, it's digital signal processing.
> 
> Even if you don't call that DSP, it's still a software thing (vs a hardware issue).  The hardware hasn't changed and we're still hearing differences.  We're in a digital scope here, there is no such thing as a dirty or clean signal, it's 0's and 1's and likely with check bits to make sure everything is Kosher.


Well in many ways I suppose it doesn’t matter a whole lot. If they sound better wired than no matter the reason, they do. If it’s software and not hardware that’s fine.  Still sounds better than wireless. The Ananda BT is a good example to use because it has a built in DAC and AMP so you can control for those.


----------



## clerkpalmer

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Android/UAPP handles this (edit: meaning signal coversion/routing) really cleverly, from what I've experienced. Unfortunately, sometimes it takes out volume control on the buds while you're listening to music, but amplification/dynamics/etc all seem to improve when playing the same locally-stored and streamed stuff. If someone could figure out an iOS equivalent to that, they'd make bank. Unfortunately, doesn't sound like the developer wants to (or might even be able to) provide a solution like this for the Apple folk. Shame, too, because that's the most-used app on my phone these days. Well worth the purchase.


Interestingly, I’ve found that listening to hi res files over iOS (wired or wireless) actually sound better than using UAPP on android. You give up the parametric EQ and that’s a bummer. I don’t see Apple ever allowing a system wide solution like UAPP sadly.


----------



## dj24

tinyman392 said:


> Another note regarding water resistance, I know someone mentioned that although the adapter is protected when it shouldn't need it as much, the IEM itself is not.
> 
> The adapter is the part with more electronics, more processors, and a battery.  It needs more protection than the IEM itself; despite it being cheaper.
> In my days at Head-Fi I don't think I can remember one instance where an IEM's housing (IE with a removable cable) died due to water or sweat.  I'd be very hard pressed to find one, and even if you do, I'd also argue that your chances of having that happen is about the same as the chances of having an IPX rated device fail due to water or sweat in the environment it is rated for.  That said, if anyone has a story of their IEM (IEM not the cable) due to sweat/splash I would love to hear it.  I was very active (headphone reviewer) about a decade ago on here for a good 5-ish years before taking a hiatus from headphones and can't remember any stories of this happening.  IPX ratings weren't huge in the headphone market at the time as they only just started to take off in fitness focused headphones towards the end of that stint.
> ...



I wish that was the case with IP rated TWS as well.  I've lost count of how many IPX7 rated ones I've had that have stopped working over time after exposure to excessive sweating.  I'm surprised more people here haven't reported this as I know there are a few long distance runners... I guess y'all don't have acid sweat like I do


----------



## tinyman392

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Android/UAPP handles this (edit: meaning signal coversion/routing) really cleverly, from what I've experienced. Unfortunately, sometimes it takes out volume control on the buds while you're listening to music, but amplification/dynamics/etc all seem to improve when playing the same locally-stored and streamed stuff. If someone could figure out an iOS equivalent to that, they'd make bank. Unfortunately, doesn't sound like the developer wants to (or might even be able to) provide a solution like this for the Apple folk. Shame, too, because that's the most-used app on my phone these days. Well worth the purchase.


 


clerkpalmer said:


> Interestingly, I’ve found that listening to hi res files over iOS (wired or wireless) actually sound better than using UAPP on android. You give up the parametric EQ and that’s a bummer. I don’t see Apple ever allowing a system wide solution like UAPP sadly.


Yes, you can have 3rd party software actually do that portion of the signal processing.  

The closest thing Apple has is their API that allows you to get music from the user's Music library.  If you want music from other sources that would need to be hooked into with the respective sources.  So long as that music doesn't have DRM encryption, then the developer of that app can process the audio themselves.  A lot of apps also allow storing of music locally within their own sandboxes too which can be read from.  Unfortunately a systemwide setup for this isn't possible and clerkpalmer is right, Apple likely would never allow for it.  But in theory, that could take out a bit of the decoding to make that a non-variable.  

I don't think the issue (software-wise) is the source side though, but rather on the headphone side.  I feel like the differences we're hearing (clerkpalmer and I with the Ananda and miserybeforethemusic with the Mobius; I haven't tried the Mobius wired through USB) are due to the way the software is handling the compressed sound (LDAC, AAC, APTX, MP3, etc.) on its end.  This of course assumes you have a good source, then the headphone's processing capabilities may be the bottleneck.  

One thing I will note that can be related to a hardware issue is if the processor being used on the headphone isn't fast enough, then it may need to sacrifice to produce a signal in a timely manner or risk higher latency.


----------



## tinyman392 (Feb 25, 2021)

dj24 said:


> I wish that was the case with IP rated TWS as well.  I've lost count of how many IPX7 rated ones I've had that have stopped working over time after exposure to excessive sweating.  I'm surprised more people here haven't reported this as I know there are a few long distance runners... I guess y'all don't have acid sweat like I do


When I said I've never heard of it, I was actually referring to old-school IEMs rather than TWS headphones.  They generally don't have many electrical components inside of them that can short easily...  Or that are connected to batteries.  I can see TWS headphones having these sorts of issues though with water.  My argument is that the IEM itself (the ones that would be adapted to a TWS adapter) likely don't have the liquid issues that the adapter itself and other TWS headphones have.  Thus failures of such a system would require a replacement of  the adapter itself and unlikely requires replacing the IEM portion that was being adapter.

Edit: keep in mind that the rubber gaskets and stuff degrade over time.  So over time the IPX rated stuff in theory would lose their IPX rating.


----------



## Canabuc

tinyman392 said:


> To get the iPhone output, DSP must be done.  The sound must be mixed at some point.  If I'm listening to music on my iPhone and an email comes in while I'm typing away I'll hear the email notification sound, clicking, and music all at the same time.  This can only happen if the 3 signals have been mixed somehow.  I'd also argue that the encoding and decoding of different file formats would also be considered DSP.  For lossy formats this is likely a much bigger deal as for lossless formats it should create identical digital output (but this also depends on how good it is).  But both require processing of a compressed audio format (whether lossy or lossless) to the waveform (this I do categorize as DSP since you're digitally processing to create a signal).
> 
> I'm using lossy files (AAC 256) for input wired and wireless on my Ananda BT and hear similar differences that you pick up on, so it definitely has less to do with how hi-resolution the files are since I'm limited to 256 AAC.  The only major differences I could be hearing is the additional encoding by the source and the decoding on the headphones.  Somewhere in that chain, the input sound for the DAC is changing with a warmer tilt.  The differences you hear are likely not the hardware; it's likely the software.


I thought if you use Bluetooth you use the DAC in the headphone and when you use wired you use the DAC in the music player be it your phone or other device.
So depending on the quality of the DSC in the headphone via Bluetooth the sound may change.
If you use a phone with a bad built in DAC your wired headphones won't sound as good as say an LG phone with a better DAC. Once you go Bluetooth that DAC is bypassed for the DAC in the headset.


----------



## SilverEars (Feb 25, 2021)

Just received Jabra 85t and I realized that tips are what's holding back the sound.  The oval tips just don't work for me.  I'm using Kanas Pro tips on it, and it makes such a big difference in sound stage and imaging. These tips opens up the sound stage imaging by a large margin.  Bass isn't all that impressive, but tonality on the highs are good, no excessive highs I notice.  I did preform the audiogram on the Jabra app, and wonder if that's what balanced out the tone for me?

I had similar experience with Samsung Galaxy Buds Pro.  I used Kanas Pro tips, and it made a drastic difference in sound.  Tips makes such a huge difference.  I'm sure the tips have good weight in why I like the sound of Kanas Pro.  Because those tips work perfectly for my ears.


----------



## dj24 (Feb 25, 2021)

tinyman392 said:


> When I said I've never heard of it, I was actually referring to old-school IEMs rather than TWS headphones.  They generally don't have many electrical components inside of them that can short easily...  Or that are connected to batteries.  I can see TWS headphones having these sorts of issues though with water.  My argument is that the IEM itself (the ones that would be adapted to a TWS adapter) likely don't have the liquid issues that the adapter itself and other TWS headphones have.  Thus failures of such a system would require a replacement of  the adapter itself and unlikely requires replacing the IEM portion that was being adapter.
> 
> Edit: *keep in mind that the rubber gaskets and stuff degrade over time.  So over time the IPX rated stuff in theory would lose their IPX rating.*


This pretty much explains my recurring problem.  I was wondering why mine stop working after 4-6 months ( I run almost everyday)..  I believe sweat turns more corrosive too after a while (compared to just water) continuing to do damage just sitting there once it dries up.


----------



## tinyman392

Canabuc said:


> I thought if you use Bluetooth you use the DAC in the headphone and when you use wired you use the DAC in the music player be it your phone or other device.
> So depending on the quality of the DSC in the headphone via Bluetooth the sound may change.
> If you use a phone with a bad built in DAC your wired headphones won't sound as good as say an LG phone with a better DAC. Once you go Bluetooth that DAC is bypassed for the DAC in the headset.


If you are running through USB to the headphone, you use the DAC in the headphone both times and the DAC in your source is never touched.  If you run out with the 3.5mm then the DAC and amplifier in the source is typically utilized.  If you're running through Lightning then the headphone's DAC will 100% for sure be utilized (Lightning is digital only).  

If the DAC is required in the headphone (like with the AirPods Max or B&H H95), and you're running the 3.5mm out, then that signal needs to be converted back to digital through and ADC before entering the headphone's DAC.  In that case you'd end up running through the DAC in the source to create an analog signal to amplify, that signal is then converted back to digital which is then sent to the headphone's DAC converted back to analog and amplified once again.  You incur the cost of double-amping in that scenario.


----------



## Canabuc

clerkpalmer said:


> I don’t agree here. Even if you are using lossy files wired, the signal path is still cleaner wired. I am chalking this up to wired sounding better than wireless. Obviously you can disagree with me. There’s no reason why the iPhone would be be using dsp to alter the sound unless we disagree on what dsp is. To me dsp is used to change the sound. For instance, Audeze uses dsp in the cipher cable to alter the sound of the isine versus passive wired.


I'm not sure I agree. If say you use iPhone with AAC format audio. There will be no decoding required and the compressed audio should be streamed via Bluetooth to the Headset.
If it was an mp3 file the iPhone for example would convert that audio to AAC with some further slight loss before sending the stream to the headset.
Whether that stream is wired or wireless shouldn't matter if bandwidth is not exceeded.


----------



## tinyman392

dj24 said:


> This pretty much explains my recurring problem.  I was wondering why mine stop working after 4-6 months ( I run almost everyday)..  I believe sweat turns more corrosive too after a while compared to just water continuing to do damage just sitting there once it dries up.


Not sure if you are doing this already, but wipe up the headphones after each workout.  Might also help to wipe them down during breaks.  It's the salt and other electrolytes in your seat that break stuff down, keeping that in contact for as little time as possible will help out a lot.


----------



## tinyman392

Canabuc said:


> I'm not sure I agree. If say you use iPhone with AAC format audio. There will be no decoding required and the compressed audio should be streamed via Bluetooth to the Headset.
> If it was an mp3 file the iPhone for example would convert that audio to AAC with some further slight loss before sending the stream to the headset.
> Whether that stream is wired or wireless shouldn't matter if bandwidth is not exceeded.



I was always curious whether or not the AAC is decoded then re-encoded on the iPhone.  Never really got a good answer either.  But it is mixed with system sounds which makes me think the iPhone decodes it, mixes it, then re-encodes it rather than just streamlining it.  Unless AAC is easy to add to in the compressed format.  I don't know enough about the format as a whole to know the answer to that.  

Someone once did say that decoding and re-encoding AAC is non-destructive though...  

None of this is confirmed though to my knowledge.


----------



## dj24

tinyman392 said:


> Not sure if you are doing this already, but wipe up the headphones after each workout.  Might also help to wipe them down during breaks.  It's the salt and other electrolytes in your seat that break stuff down, keeping that in contact for as little time as possible will help out a lot.


Iam. Constantly.  I'm just unfortunate that I tend to sweat profusely from both sides of my head and that tends to go straight past my ears where my earphones like to gobble them up


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

SilverEars said:


> Just received Jabra 85t and I realized that tips are what's holding back the sound.  The oval tips just don't work for me.  I'm using Kanas Pro tips on it, and it makes such a big difference in sound stage and imaging. These tips opens up the sound stage imaging by a large margin.  Bass isn't all that impressive, but tonality on the highs are good, no excessive highs I notice.  I did preform the audiogram on the Jabra app, and wonder if that's what balanced out the tone for me?
> 
> I had similar experience with Samsung Galaxy Buds Pro.  I used Kanas Pro tips, and it made a drastic difference in sound.  Tips makes such a huge difference.  I'm sure the tips have good weight in why I like the sound of Kanas Pro.  Because those tips work perfectly for my ears.


Might need to be careful with this one. The 85ts require different tips than most IEMs; I couldn't use any of my spare stock without having the tips end up lodged in my ears. That's an easy enough fix when at home, but I couldn't imagine that happening to you while commuting.


----------



## tinyman392

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Might need to be careful with this one. The 85ts require different tips than most IEMs; I couldn't use any of my spare stock without having the tips end up lodged in my ears. That's an easy enough fix when at home, but I couldn't imagine that happening to you while commuting.



Do the 85Ts have a non-round nozzle?  In terms of diameter, there really isn't a "standard" size for tips  Shure, Westone, Etymotic tend to utilize a very thin nozzle while UE and Audeze use a larger nozzle while Sony and HiFiMan use a nozzle that's kind of in between in size.  Even within the same brand, though, they may have different nozzle sizes  As long as the tip's connection diameter is smaller than the nozzle's it will fit, albeit with a bit of fenangling it.


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## miserybeforethemusic (Feb 25, 2021)

tinyman392 said:


> Do the 85Ts have a non-round nozzle?  In terms of diameter, there really isn't a "standard" size for tips  Shure, Westone, Etymotic tend to utilize a very thin nozzle while UE and Audeze use a larger nozzle while Sony and HiFiMan use a nozzle that's kind of in between in size.  Even within the same brand, though, they may have different nozzle sizes  As long as the tip's connection diameter is smaller than the nozzle's it will fit, albeit with a bit of fenangling it.


Yeah, they're oval tips with a mesh screen built in. I did attempt to "fit" a set of SpinFits on there and it'll work, but I still have reservations about them popping off, especially if you're trying to get more of a seal than the 85t is designed to provide. The real issue I've seen with most TWS tips is the relatively short nozzle and the nozzle's lip. Seems like any tip with a longer stem is massively at risk for dislodging.

Besides, with the L tips and ANC on, it's amazing how much sound the 85t can block out without needing passive isolation and without sacrificing the overall sound signature. It's still pretty tough to wrap my head around commuting with the volume level below 20% and still being able to hear everything. Until Comply or Dekoni (Edit: looks like Dekoni do...5mm bore and 7.5mm tall) join the game with aftermarket tips, I don't think I'd recommend trying to use alternatives. For science's sake, though, I'm willing to give it a shot and I'll report back what I think of it. Fwiw, the 85t is plenty comfortable and isolating for me in stock form.


----------



## dj24

miserybeforethemusic said:


> I've got a Link 380 on its way. Will do my best to provide feedback on my personal experience getting it to work with the 85t as well as my UE FITS, which I'm hoping I can finally pair to a computer in stereo. Jabra has mentioned on other forums that there are some software features that don't work with their TWS since those are intended for mobile applications....



They are a hassle to pair the first time around but other than that it's smooth sailing after that.  On my Active 75t, I can get hear through to work but not active noise cancellation so they're right about some features not working.  Mute works as well too as that it is a critical feature to have when you're moving around the house or doing something on the side. 

Having said that, the price for the dongle is still ludicrous though costing as much as a very good pair of TWS.  I wonder if there's a Chinese knockoff somewhere with the same features on AliExpress or the like and that we just haven't come across it yet.  Either way someone should though as Windows bluetooth implementation leaves a lot to be desired by itself let alone once you throw TWS to the mix.  I've had lots of family, friends and work colleagues end up buying this dongle and by all accounts most people on the Internet swear by them too.  Jabra is probably smiling all the way to the bank charging $100 a pop for something that should barely cost $25.  I see you Jabra


----------



## tinyman392

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Yeah, they're oval tips with a mesh screen built in. I did attempt to "fit" a set of SpinFits on there and it'll work, but I still have reservations about them popping off, especially if you're trying to get more of a seal than the 85t is designed to provide. The real issue I've seen with most TWS tips is the relatively short nozzle and the nozzle's lip. Seems like any tip with a longer stem is massively at risk for dislodging.
> 
> Besides, with the L tips and ANC on, it's amazing how much sound the 85t can block out without needing passive isolation and without sacrificing the overall sound signature. It's still pretty tough to wrap my head around commuting with the volume level below 20% and still being able to hear everything. Until Comply or Dekoni (Edit: looks like Dekoni do...5mm bore and 7.5mm tall) join the game with aftermarket tips, I don't think I'd recommend trying to use alternatives. For science's sake, though, I'm willing to give it a shot and I'll report back what I think of it. Fwiw, the 85t is plenty comfortable and isolating for me in stock form.



Yeah, that would definitely cause issues with 3rd party tips.  There are very few headphones with ovular nozzles, I'd probably back your recommendations against tip rolling as well.  Make sure you have a pair of tweezers with you while you're sciencing for all of us   I hate it when tips get lodged in your ear.  The stem portion of Etymotic, Audeze, and Apple (old ADDIEM) tips eventually lost their grip and would start doing this until you got a new pair of tips.  Actually, the stock tips on my Nightingale did this too


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## miserybeforethemusic

dj24 said:


> They are a hassle to pair the first time around but other than that it's smooth sailing after that.  On my Active 75t, I can get hear through to work but not active noise cancellation so they're right about some features not working.  Mute works as well too as that it is a critical feature to have when you're moving around the house or doing something on the side.
> 
> Having said that, the price for the dongle is still ludicrous though costing as much as a very good pair of TWS.  I wonder if there's a Chinese knockoff somewhere with the same features on AliExpress or the like and that we just haven't come across it yet.  Either way someone should though as Windows bluetooth implementation leaves a lot to be desired by itself let alone once you throw TWS to the mix.  I've had lots of family, friends and work colleagues end up buying this dongle and by all accounts most people on the Internet swear by them too.  Jabra is probably smiling all the way to the bank charging $100 a pop for something that should barely cost $25.  I see you Jabra


The $10 Amazon off-brand special didn't cut it, despite the BT5.0 marking on its packaging. I'm willing to spend a bit more if it works, but yeah...that's a hard ask for what's effectively a Bluetooth dongle. Then again, that's always been Jabra's M.O. in my experience. At least you tend to get what you pay for.

Or...you know...Microsoft could finally fix itself and allow a software-level TWS implementation. Shouldn't be _that_ hard for them to do, right? They just need to take 1 of the 5 million people working on Teams "upgrades" to put some focus on it.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

tinyman392 said:


> Yeah, that would definitely cause issues with 3rd party tips.  There are very few headphones with ovular nozzles, I'd probably back your recommendations against tip rolling as well.  Make sure you have a pair of tweezers with you while you're sciencing for all of us   I hate it when tips get lodged in your ear.  The stem portion of Etymotic, Audeze, and Apple (old ADDIEM) tips eventually lost their grip and would start doing this until you got a new pair of tips.  Actually, the stock tips on my Nightingale did this too


Try pulling out a pair of Shure SE530 to have both the tip _and_ the filter still lodged in your ear. That was a rough day...Tweezers are at the ready


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## tinyman392 (Feb 25, 2021)

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Try pulling out a pair of Shure SE530 to have both the tip _and_ the filter still lodged in your ear. That was a rough day...Tweezers are at the ready



That sounds like a rough day.  Realistically though, the only tip I can't get out with my fingers if they lodge in my ear was the Apple dual-driver IEMs from way back in the day.  The tip was about twice the length of the nozzle connector piece of the tip and the headphones needed deep insertion and a strong seal to get bass out of them.  Luckily the filters screw into the IEM's housing nozzle.

Good luck on your adventure.  If all else fails there is Loctite*.

*(please don't actually do this)


----------



## KPzypher

SilverEars said:


> Just received Jabra 85t and I realized that tips are what's holding back the sound.  The oval tips just don't work for me.  I'm using Kanas Pro tips on it, and it makes such a big difference in sound stage and imaging. These tips opens up the sound stage imaging by a large margin.  Bass isn't all that impressive, but tonality on the highs are good, no excessive highs I notice.  I did preform the audiogram on the Jabra app, and wonder if that's what balanced out the tone for me?
> 
> I had similar experience with Samsung Galaxy Buds Pro.  I used Kanas Pro tips, and it made a drastic difference in sound.  Tips makes such a huge difference.  I'm sure the tips have good weight in why I like the sound of Kanas Pro.  Because those tips work perfectly for my ears.



One of the reasons why I gave up portable/IEM in favor of fullsize HPs and desktop setup was because I got so tired of tip rolling w/ IEMs.  You're never sure which one sounds the best so you're constantly tip rolling going back and forth between hundred different sets of tips.  In the end I usually settled with spinfit or comply foam tips.  Another thing you have to contend with is the possibility of drastic sound change with certain tips.  

So do you find tonal balance acceptable with the 85ts? What about timbre?  I don't care about lack of bass as long as there's some 'body' in the midrange and the HF isn't shouty or sibilant.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

tinyman392 said:


> That sounds like a rough day.  Realistically though, the only tip I can't get out with my fingers if they lodge in my ear was the Apple dual-driver IEMs from way back in the day.  The tip was about twice the length of the nozzle connector piece of the tip and the headphones needed deep insertion and a strong seal to get bass out of them.  Luckily the filters screw into the IEM's housing nozzle.
> 
> Good luck on your adventure.  If all else fails there is Loctite.


Hah never Loctite. Neither Gorilla Glue, since we apparently have to clarify in year 2021.

Didn't last long, anyway. The SpinFits technically attach to the bud and they did stay secure during my testing, but...



You can clearly see there's a massive difference in both protection and apparent port size for each tip. While the SpinFits do stay secure on the nozzle (and even fit inside the case), they do have to be stretched on pretty tight. I think that, in combination with the longer nozzle and smaller bore, produce a transmission effect and I don't mean that in a pleasant way. The bass was completely sucked out and upper mids/treble got stabby. I don't think I lasted more than a couple minutes.

But hey...they don't come off, so if comfort's an absolute requirement and the 85t aren't cutting it, I suppose this would work in a pinch.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

Learned something interesting about the UE FITS. Wonder what the logic was behind taking such a large dynamic driver and reducing its usable surface area to this:


And it still sounds fantastic. Weird.


----------



## SilverEars (Feb 25, 2021)

KPzypher said:


> One of the reasons why I gave up portable/IEM in favor of fullsize HPs and desktop setup was because I got so tired of tip rolling w/ IEMs.  You're never sure which one sounds the best so you're constantly tip rolling going back and forth between hundred different sets of tips.  In the end I usually settled with spinfit or comply foam tips.  Another thing you have to contend with is the possibility of drastic sound change with certain tips.
> 
> So do you find tonal balance acceptable with the 85ts? What about timbre?  I don't care about lack of bass as long as there's some 'body' in the midrange and the HF isn't shouty or sibilant.


Tips making a significant different is real.  It just baffles me how much of a difference tips make in how iem sounds.  It's a must for all iems for making any final judgements on it.  Usually, when there is elevated treble, tip rolling will not change that, but I notice tip rolling will change how the details, sound stage, imaging, and bass are presented.  It's been years since I've listened with iems, and when I first noticed how even the bore size changes how the sound is perceived baffled my mind. 

I don't mind tip rolling personally.  The part of the fun for me is, anticipating what the tips will do the sound, and sometimes results in unexpected surprised, and it feels like payoff.  I just find it sad that companies chooses to ignore this and provide crappy tips, and sometimes with trial and error you arrive at sound performance you didn't expect. 

After tip rolling alot you notice what tips works well consistantly or most times.  For me it's been Final Audio, Spiral Dots, Kanas Pro, and in minor cases Spin Fits.  Those are almost always guaranteed to get the maximum sound performance out of any iem I try so I go through them first.  Tips can't vary too much you'd find, once you narrowed down to several top tips that works best for you.

Tonal balance is better than acceptable with 85t.  I think the tonal balance is one of the best.  It doesn't lack bass.  Bass is highly present above neutral.  The quality isn't on the level of Galaxy Buds Pro, but Buds Pro comes with it's issue of highs being too much at times.  I find it warm sounding, and lower minds may need some reduction.

The trend I'm noticing with TWS are proprietary tips following Apple's trend.  This is a terrible trend for tip rolling.


----------



## voicemaster

Headphones also benefit from earpad rolling FYI.


----------



## SilverEars

voicemaster said:


> Headphones also benefit from earpad rolling FYI.


My HE-6 says yes.


----------



## tinyman392 (Feb 25, 2021)

KPzypher said:


> One of the reasons why I gave up portable/IEM in favor of fullsize HPs and desktop setup was because I got so tired of tip rolling w/ IEMs.  You're never sure which one sounds the best so you're constantly tip rolling going back and forth between hundred different sets of tips.  In the end I usually settled with spinfit or comply foam tips.  Another thing you have to contend with is the possibility of drastic sound change with certain tips.
> 
> So do you find tonal balance acceptable with the 85ts? What about timbre?  I don't care about lack of bass as long as there's some 'body' in the midrange and the HF isn't shouty or sibilant.



Just FYI, ear pad rolling is a thing too.  I tend to not tip roll outside supplied tips unless I'm not getting a good seal (drop-off in bass) or run into flex issues (seal too strong).  I also tend to also not ear pad roll either, though I believe I did that with the HE-560 at one point with HiFiMan's focus pads.  How the full-sized is placed on your head (more forward or backward, physically) can also change the sound too.  With regards to IEMs, how deep you insert the IEMs will also change the sound.


----------



## KPzypher

tinyman392 said:


> Just FYI, ear pad rolling is a thing too.  I tend to not tip roll outside supplied tips unless I'm not getting a good seal (drop-off in bass) or run into flex issues (seal too strong).  I also tend to also not ear pad roll either, though I believe I did that with the HE-560 at one point with HiFiMan's focus pads.  How the full-sized is placed on your head (more forward or backward, physically) can also change the sound too.  With regards to IEMs, how deep you insert the IEMs will also change the sound.



Of course ear pad rolling is a thing.  I own enough headphones and have aftermarket pads for almost all my headphones.  But I do it more to keep a backup pair rather than to remedy fit/seal issues. Pad swapping on headphones is way less stressful than tip rolling on IEMs.

Anyways, my recent foray into TWS made me realize once again how much I hate fiddling w/ in-ears to get a perfect seal and good fit to avoid discomfort.

I think I've sampled enough current gen TWS to get a good feel for their strengths and weaknesses WRT latest TWS tech, so I'm going to move to full-size wireless ANC for a bit until next gen TWS starts to hit the market (5.2, LE, LDAC, etc.).


----------



## miserybeforethemusic (Feb 25, 2021)

KPzypher said:


> I'm going to move to full-size wireless ANC for a bit until next gen TWS starts to hit the market (5.2, LE, LDAC, etc.).


I highly, HIGHLY suggest that you start with the Soundcore Q30 if you do this. In my opinion, those are the current gold standard for entry-level ANC over-ears. Anker/Soundcore got so many little things right when they designed these. If you could imagine this forum building that one pair that would bridge the gap between normal listeners and the enthusiasts, I think you'd end up somewhere close to what Soundcore released. Sure, they're not going to be the best-sounding pair you'll run across in your journey, but I really think you'd be doing yourself a disservice if you didn't see how all-around _good_ those Q30 are. Seeing them ask less than $100 for them is honestly shocking.


----------



## tinyman392

KPzypher said:


> Of course ear pad rolling is a thing.  I own enough headphones and have aftermarket pads for almost all my headphones.  But I do it more to keep a backup pair rather than to remedy fit/seal issues. Pad swapping on headphones is way less stressful than tip rolling on IEMs.
> 
> Anyways, my recent foray into TWS made me realize once again how much I hate fiddling w/ in-ears to get a perfect seal and good fit to avoid discomfort.
> 
> I think I've sampled enough current gen TWS to get a good feel for their strengths and weaknesses WRT latest TWS tech, so I'm going to move to full-size wireless ANC for a bit until next gen TWS starts to hit the market (5.2, LE, LDAC, etc.).



Full-sized ANC tends to do better than IEM ANC which is often shallow fit.  Though I always found the passive isolation with a pair of IEMs that seated deeper to be more than adequate; not needing ANC.


----------



## Canabuc

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Might need to be careful with this one. The 85ts require different tips than most IEMs; I couldn't use any of my spare stock without having the tips end up lodged in my ears. That's an easy enough fix when at home, but I couldn't imagine that happening to you while commuting.



85t tips have wax guard built into the tip not the bud. Be careful or if wax get into the body of the earbud you could ruin the volume and sound.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

Canabuc said:


> 85t tips have wax guard built into the tip not the bud. Be careful or if wax get into the body of the earbud you could ruin the volume and sound.


Thanks and I agree. I honestly just did it because I wasn't sure if it would work and I'd rather have found out for myself. Something akin to a "hold my beer" moment for me. I'd much rather run the stock tips based on how they sit in the ear.


----------



## jibberish

I wish I could've tried the 85t with the stock tips, but the largest stock tips still weren't big enough for my ears, and I could never get a seal.  I am using them currently with the big, narrow bore orange silicon tips from the Sony MH755, and it's working quite well.  That is a good point about the screen guard in the stock tips though, I should figure out a solution for that.

I still really am enjoying the 85t though.  I think the tuning, sound stage, and imaging are all very good, but it does lack a bit in terms of resolution and ability to handle complex passages.  The bass does go deep when you have a good seal, very audible sub bass with good extension, just not very good texture or impact.  Also all the non-music aspects about the 85t are top notch.

I'm now considering the JBL Club Pro Plus, based on the feedback I've seen about that set.  I do think I'll try to wait to see if a sale price pops up though, I'm in pretty good shape with the 85t and Technics AZ70 at the moment.


----------



## SilverEars

Anybody know what the personal audiogram does?  I took a hearing test on the Jabra app that created an audiogram.


----------



## tinyman392 (Feb 25, 2021)

SilverEars said:


> Anybody know what the personal audiogram does?  I took a hearing test on the Jabra app that created an audiogram.


If it’s like on iOS and the AirPods, it’ll adjust/EQ the sound of the headphones to your hearing.  So if you have lost higher frequency hearing due to age, it would adjust that for example.  

Edit: there are a few apps that do this as well on iOS if I’m not mistaken.  The audio gram has to be tailored to the respective headphone.  Not a warning for you, since you’re using the Jabra app.  For others though, don’t create or use one if it’s not designed for your specific headphone as you’ll get sporadic results.  I haven’t personally used any audio grams though.


----------



## FYLegend

miserybeforethemusic said:


> I highly, HIGHLY suggest that you start with the Soundcore Q30 if you do this. In my opinion, those are the current gold standard for entry-level ANC over-ears. Anker/Soundcore got so many little things right when they designed these. If you could imagine this forum building that one pair that would bridge the gap between normal listeners and the enthusiasts, I think you'd end up somewhere close to what Soundcore released. Sure, they're not going to be the best-sounding pair you'll run across in your journey, but I really think you'd be doing yourself a disservice if you didn't see how all-around _good_ those Q30 are. Seeing them ask less than $100 for them is honestly shocking.


I've been enjoying them a lot as my daily driver but the creaking headband drives me nuts. I've also had occasions my long hair gets caught in the headband when taking them off. My Dyplay Urban Traveller 2 has superior ANC and build quality but lacks an ambient mode and the sound with ANC on may be too bright for most listeners.

Back in 2019 my gripe was most of these budget headphones still didn't have USB-C, but the budget market is opening up and I'm curious how the Tranya H10, Monoprice BT-600 compare... Wyze is another promising budget option.


----------



## Canabuc

jibberish said:


> I wish I could've tried the 85t with the stock tips, but the largest stock tips still weren't big enough for my ears, and I could never get a seal.  I am using them currently with the big, narrow bore orange silicon tips from the Sony MH755, and it's working quite well.  That is a good point about the screen guard in the stock tips though, I should figure out a solution for that.
> 
> I still really am enjoying the 85t though.  I think the tuning, sound stage, and imaging are all very good, but it does lack a bit in terms of resolution and ability to handle complex passages.  The bass does go deep when you have a good seal, very audible sub bass with good extension, just not very good texture or impact.  Also all the non-music aspects about the 85t are top notch.
> 
> I'm now considering the JBL Club Pro Plus, based on the feedback I've seen about that set.  I do think I'll try to wait to see if a sale price pops up though, I'm in pretty good shape with the 85t and Technics AZ70 at the moment.


Love JBL for sound and has very good ambient modes and mics but the ANC is worthless. 

My bathroom fan plane and cafe noise test on YouTube and there was little to no reduction in noise.
By comparison the Sony eliminated the fan completely and the cafe and plane noise everything but the highest frequencies were gone.
85t were similar fr memory to the Sony.
Sennheiser was distant 4th.
Samsung 3rd but if seal not perfect was worse than MTW2.
Surprisingly the Fiil eliminated almost all fan noise and was similar to sennheiser's ANC.


----------



## busski (Feb 26, 2021)

GreenError said:


> Hello  I'd like to buy new headphones and can't choose between the Jabra 85T, Melomania Touch and the KEF mu3. Can someone help me make the decision?
> 
> To me: iPhone users, so only aac. I like bass-heavy music, but also rock and acoustic songs. Sound quality is most important to me. ANC is great, but good passive isolation is enough for me. I only make calls sometimes, so it's not so important. Hope someone can help with the decision, someone could test two or 3 of the headphones? The KEF mu3 doesn't have an app, so you have to live with the presets? Thank you



Having owned all three, here's my order:

Kef Mu3
Jabra 85T
Melomania Touch

I've been listening to the kef's for a week and I am very impressed with everything except the ANC/Ambient modes, which are not great. Not even good.  Connection has been rock solid.  They are incredibly comfortable and provide the best seal I've ever had from TWS.  And the sound is just what I want.  Detailed, Great soundstage, solid bass, and beautiful clear treble.  The detail is truly surprising for a TWS.  I listen to mostly soul music and bass heavy electronic music.  The bass is deep and powerful but a little less "punchy' than others I've listened to.

Melomania Touch was UI garbage.  Connection issues across multiple firmware versions. In addition the touch was too sensitive so you couldn't adjust them in the ear without having the earphones "do" something like adjust the track, volume, or call up siri.  They were truly maddening.  Whathifi review was spot on.  The melomania 1 is a better product.  Sound was great but not worth the hassle.  Bright, spacious with crystal clear mids and high end with bass definitely powerful and punchy.  Sent them back.

Jabra 85t.  They just work.  Everything isintuitive and they have rock solid connections and great call quality.   Sound is just plain boring and forgettable.  They are just not very expressive, except in the bass, which is solid but over-emphasized.


----------



## zeinharis

Just get an Azla Xelastec, impressions is that the tips opens up the mids (just some, which the N6 Mini mids is already good) and the highs (especially the highs) without losing any impact on the bass. The grip is perfect, so is the isolation, definitely an excellent tips.


----------



## bronco1015 (Feb 26, 2021)

dj24 said:


> Do you use the jabra link with with your Evolve 2?  The one thing I'm not sure of while using the Jabra Link (since it acts as a soundcard) is if the noise cancellation works for the other party during calls just as you described it with your music scenario.  Hopefully you can test this with the 85t as well if you do end up getting it.


i haven't been using the link, the calls have been through a phone so i'm not sure what would happen using the link. I won't be able to test it for a few days but i will asap and let you know. Edit: i decided to try this before i left for the day, with the evolve 2 the link does reduce background noise, but vs calls on the phone, it isn't quite as good unless i'm missing something in settings.


----------



## X-Nemesis

I just picked up the soundpeats sonics for a cheap button based tws with a supposed 11hr listening time.  One problem, the buttons are to stiff and push the buds into the ear.
Are there any comparable button based tws that have at least 6hrs per charge but have a very soft button push that don't drive them into your ear canal?


----------



## blomman77 (Feb 26, 2021)

Lypertek soundfree will most likely work for you.
https://www.lypertek.com/product-page/lypertek-levi-truly-wireless-earphones


X-Nemesis said:


> I just picked up the soundpeats sonics for a cheap button based tws with a supposed 11hr listening time.  One problem, the buttons are to stiff and push the buds into the ear.
> Are there any comparable button based tws that have at least 6hrs per charge but have a very soft button push that don't drive them into your ear canal?


----------



## Canabuc

X-Nemesis said:


> I just picked up the soundpeats sonics for a cheap button based tws with a supposed 11hr listening time.  One problem, the buttons are to stiff and push the buds into the ear.
> Are there any comparable button based tws that have at least 6hrs per charge but have a very soft button push that don't drive them into your ear canal?


Liberty 2 pro


----------



## SilverEars

Canabuc said:


> 85t tips have wax guard built into the tip not the bud. Be careful or if wax get into the body of the earbud you could ruin the volume and sound.


That's a major problem indeed.  I wonder how I can get wax guard and still use tips without waxguard on it.


----------



## X-Nemesis

blomman77 said:


> Lypertek soundfree will most likely work for you.
> https://www.lypertek.com/product-page/lypertek-levi-truly-wireless-earphones


Thanks I'll take a look at both those options.  I didn't realize the liberty 2 pro's were button based.


----------



## tinyman392 (Feb 26, 2021)

SilverEars said:


> That's a major problem indeed.  I wonder how I can get wax guard and still use tips without waxguard on it.


Simplest solution would be to find a similar mesh/fabric and place it between the nozzle opening and the tip.  It's probably not the prettiest, but it would work.

For a more permanent solution you could super glue the mesh/fabric onto the tip; using a toothpick to apply glue and tweezers to apply mesh may be useful.  This is non-reversible (for the tip) and can be a bit messy though.

Edit: this can, in theory change the sound of the headphones!  Granted it's for a different headphone, wax guards can be used to help tune the sound of headphones as seen in the ADDIEM here (see "on second thought #3).


----------



## Canabuc

X-Nemesis said:


> Thanks I'll take a look at both those options.  I didn't realize the liberty 2 pro's were button based.


Buttons are in top so no issue with the press


----------



## tinyman392

X-Nemesis said:


> Thanks I'll take a look at both those options.  I didn't realize the liberty 2 pro's were button based.



I've never had issues with buttons and kind of prefer any sort of pressure-based system.  Touch controls tend to be very finicky for me and have a small learning curve with every headphone (timing differences, location of the touch sensitive areas, etc.).  Some are done better than others, but there is a lot of inconsistency.  A button is a physical mechanism and you get feedback from it so you know it was pressed.  Accidental touches when adjusting fit is also less of an issue with buttons as well.


----------



## PixelSquish (Feb 26, 2021)

I've had the Senn Momentum TW2's since April and absolutely am in love with them. They get used every day and my high end wired IEM's are just gathering dust. If I wanted to get a second pair of True Wireless buds to be able to throw into the mix that are high end as well that can give me sound on par with the Senns' but perhaps slightly different, what would you recommend? There are probably only a few that truly compare no? Sony's are out because I don't like how they fit, with so much of the bud outside of your ear. The Technics look really good to me, anybody used both?


----------



## bronco1015 (Feb 26, 2021)

PixelSquish said:


> I've had the Senn Momentum TW2's since April and absolutely am in love with them. They get used every day and my high end wired IEM's are just gathering dust. If I wanted to get a second pair of True Wireless buds to be able to throw into the mix that are high end as well that can give me sound on par with the Senns' but perhaps slightly different, what would you recommend? There are probably only a few that truly compare no? Sony's are out because I don't like how they fit, with so much of the bud outside of your ear. The Technics look really good to me, anybody used both?


If you want something now, and something that imo has better ANC than the MTW2, the Technics are a great option. 85T are also worth a look and have great ANC. Edit, I've owned all 3, currently still have the MTW2 and AZ70, i like MTW1 sq better so selling MTW2.


----------



## bronco1015

A New pair from JBL:
https://www.underarmour.com/en-us/p/ua-true-wireless-streak-headphones/1364119.html
And a new pair from RHA
https://www.rha-audio.com/us/headphones/wireless/truecontrol-anc
Anyone heard either of these?


----------



## Luke Skywalker (Feb 26, 2021)

GreenError said:


> Hello  I'd like to buy new headphones and can't choose between the Jabra 85T, Melomania Touch and the KEF mu3. Can someone help me make the decision?
> 
> To me: iPhone users, so only aac. I like bass-heavy music, but also rock and acoustic songs. Sound quality is most important to me. ANC is great, but good passive isolation is enough for me. I only make calls sometimes, so it's not so important. Hope someone can help with the decision, someone could test two or 3 of the headphones? The KEF mu3 doesn't have an app, so you have to live with the presets? Thank you


Wow I just got my KEF mu3.  The sound is absolutely incredible with my iPhone. The case and buds are stunning looking and they fit amazing. Blows away Sony XM3, Jabra 65, NUARL N6P

These might be my endgame TWS. came super fast too (USA).


----------



## kolbo

Luke Skywalker said:


> Wow I just got my KEF mu3.  The sound is absolutely incredible with my iPhone. The case and buds are stunning looking and they fit amazing. Blows away Sony XM3, Jabra 65, NUARL N6P
> 
> These might be my endgame TWS. came super fast too (USA).


Can we get your impressions on ambient mode and ANC?


----------



## miserybeforethemusic (Feb 26, 2021)

bronco1015 said:


> A New pair from JBL:
> https://www.underarmour.com/en-us/p/ua-true-wireless-streak-headphones/1364119.html
> And a new pair from RHA
> https://www.rha-audio.com/us/headphones/wireless/truecontrol-anc
> Anyone heard either of these?


The UAs are, to my memory, basically mid-tier JBLs that are more workout tough. If waterproofing and a secure fit are your top priorities, then go for it. Those types of in-ears are usually pretty uncomfortable long-term, too. Seems like the smarter buy would be to either a) get the Club Pro+ if you need something now or b) wait a few more weeks for the seasonal announcements to be made to see if they're releasing another. JBL does have a knack for quietly discontinuing things, though, so I wouldn't sleep on it too long.

As for the RHA, I think they'll probably sound fine and it's nice to see aptX, but I'm a little confused that it's not aptX Adaptive. For a new release, that would seem to me to be a requirement.


----------



## Luke Skywalker

kolbo said:


> Can we get your impressions on ambient mode and ANC?


Sure!  So this isn’t very scientific but I went into my bathroom that has a loud fan and it was dead silent with Katie Melua stardust playing. One press on the left switched to ambient and i could clearly hear the fan. One more press turned ANC off (voice confirmation on each mode btw).  

As someone else said, the fit is incredible so some of this might be passive. It came with 3 other sets of tips but I just stuck them in my ears and it’s perfect. it almost feels like a magnet is holding them inside my ears. Super pimp looking too and they don’t stick out at all

haven’t tested phone calls get


----------



## bladefd

PixelSquish said:


> I've had the Senn Momentum TW2's since April and absolutely am in love with them. They get used every day and my high end wired IEM's are just gathering dust. If I wanted to get a second pair of True Wireless buds to be able to throw into the mix that are high end as well that can give me sound on par with the Senns' but perhaps slightly different, what would you recommend? There are probably only a few that truly compare no? Sony's are out because I don't like how they fit, with so much of the bud outside of your ear. The Technics look really good to me, anybody used both?



Did you enjoy the Sony wf-1000xm3 sound signature? If you did, then you should like the Melomania Touch. You seem to have a big budget though so you should be able to get something even better like say kuf mu3 and 85t. I honestly do not believe you are going to get much better sound quality than the Sennheiser mtw2.

I personally was not a huge fan of the technics AZ70 sound signature (missing the oomph in the lows and sound stage not as good as others) and had some comfort issues (they stuck out too much too causing some comfort issues). I enjoyed the Sennheiser, Sony wf-1000xm3 and Melomania Touch sound signatures more for sure. I felt the sennheiser mtw2 sound signature was noticeably better than the AZ70, but quite a few posters here are big fans of the AZ70. You can try it out certainly.


----------



## Demo3

Luke Skywalker said:


> Wow I just got my KEF mu3.  The sound is absolutely incredible with my iPhone. The case and buds are stunning looking and they fit amazing. Blows away Sony XM3, Jabra 65, NUARL N6P
> 
> These might be my endgame TWS. came super fast too (USA).


Getting my mu3 next week... can't wait.


----------



## Luke Skywalker

Demo3 said:


> Getting my mu3 next week... can't wait.


So exciting... I lost my Bose NC which I loved , so I can‘t compare them at the moment but I think these sound even better.  These sound almost as good as my JH Lola‘a for clarity and separation. Tons of bass too unless you’re a super bass head


----------



## PixelSquish

bladefd said:


> Did you enjoy the Sony wf-1000xm3 sound signature? If you did, then you should like the Melomania Touch. You seem to have a big budget though so you should be able to get something even better like say kuf mu3 and 85t. I honestly do not believe you are going to get much better sound quality than the Sennheiser mtw2.
> 
> I personally was not a huge fan of the technics AZ70 sound signature (missing the oomph in the lows and sound stage not as good as others) and had some comfort issues (they stuck out too much too causing some comfort issues). I enjoyed the Sennheiser, Sony wf-1000xm3 and Melomania Touch sound signatures more for sure. I felt the sennheiser mtw2 sound signature was noticeably better than the AZ70, but quite a few posters here are big fans of the AZ70. You can try it out certainly.



Thanks for the great info. Yeah I'm looking to spend up to $250 as I just sold my Meze Rai Penta's. I have not heard the Sony's but I just really hate that fit/look. The kef Mu3 looks intriguing but it seems they are not available from a US e-tailer yet and no real reviews out either, just a bunch of marketing fluff pieces from a quick Google. Maybe I should wait and hear more about those. I have read some nice things about the Jabra 85T and trying to get over my bias of them being more of a making phone calls company rather than a high end audio experience company. I do use the Senn's for phone calls when I happen to be walking my dog and they work fine, don't need anything better. I just want really good sound, something to switch it up with.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic (Feb 26, 2021)

Couldn't resist and pulled the trigger on the JBL Club Pro Plus. I need another pair like I need a hole in my head, but I've passed on enough JBL gear in my life and regretted it. I'm familiar with KEF's house sound and it's a little too subdued for my tastes (and would probably be pretty similar to the M&Ds).

To be honest, I haven't found a clear winner overall yet. Seems like each pair I own excels in some areas, but has a clear-cut con somewhere else.



PixelSquish said:


> Thanks for the great info. Yeah I'm looking to spend up to $250 as I just sold my Meze Rai Penta's. I have not heard the Sony's but I just really hate that fit/look. The kef Mu3 looks intriguing but it seems they are not available from a US e-tailer yet and no real reviews out either, just a bunch of marketing fluff pieces from a quick Google. Maybe I should wait and hear more about those. I have read some nice things about the Jabra 85T and trying to get over my bias of them being more of a making phone calls company rather than a high end audio experience company. I do use the Senn's for phone calls when I happen to be walking my dog and they work fine, don't need anything better. I just want really good sound, something to switch it up with.


I was looking at your listing in the classified 20 minutes ago and was tempted to make an offer. Realized I'm not ready to go back to wired IEMs yet and opted for the JBL instead.

Are you looking for something sonically similar to the Penta?


----------



## Luke Skywalker

Mu3 manual 

https://assets.kef.com/pdf_doc/mu3/Mu3_manual_EN.pdf


----------



## PixelSquish

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Couldn't resist and pulled the trigger on the JBL Club Pro Plus. I need another pair like I need a hole in my head, but I've passed on enough JBL gear in my life and regretted it. I'm familiar with KEF's house sound and it's a little too subdued for my tastes (and would probably be pretty similar to the M&Ds).
> 
> To be honest, I haven't found a clear winner overall yet. Seems like each pair I own excels in some areas, but has a clear-cut con somewhere else.
> 
> ...



The clarity of the Penta's in the mids and highs was amazing, while still being lush and organic, just could have used a touch more bass. I just noticed the Technics don't support AptX, that's a bummer   I'm on Android.


----------



## PixelSquish

The B&O beoplay e8 might be an option too.


----------



## PixelSquish

Rumored photo of the new Sony's, looks like they are going to be more along the lines of Senns in design, which is bueno

https://www.cnet.com/news/sonys-rumored-wf-1000xm4-true-wireless-earbuds-may-be-coming-soon/


----------



## miserybeforethemusic (Feb 26, 2021)

PixelSquish said:


> The clarity of the Penta's in the mids and highs was amazing, while still being lush and organic, just could have used a touch more bass. I just noticed the Technics don't support AptX, that's a bummer   I'm on Android.


In terms of pure SQ, I'm pretty satisfied with the UEs. I think they're plenty tunable, very detail-centric without being stabby, responsive to EQ, and _darn_ comfortable. I do have UE sending me another set of tips because I think the fit in my Right ear is just a bit off from being perfectly sealed, and that does reflect in low-end extension and left-right balance when the fit is off. The replacement process is pretty much entirely run from the app and you have to "complain" about the fit/SQ enough for them to suggest the replacement. Be prepared to take photos of your ears if this happens, but I'd just consider it a formality.

I also haven't heard any complaints on call quality, even after using it for an hour-long Zoom call on the phone. My guess is it handles the task admirably, but sets that use cVc noise cancelling mic arrays will probably do better at cutting outside noises in your calls.

Going from the Mezes to the 85t, I think you'll be very happy with the feature set, but frustrated with the SQ and difficulty in tuning them just right. The UEs seem way more right out of the box.


----------



## Luke Skywalker

Still listening to the mu3’s here. Realized that the noise cancelation isn’t quite up to what I remember my Bose to be. If you’re in a room full of people talking loudly you can definitely hear it.


----------



## PixelSquish

It's really too bad Panasonic shafted the Technics with no Aptx. There are probably a lot of Android users out there not familiar with codecs getting subpar sound with those than they should be.

I think may as well wait to see what Sony puts out next. Everything else seems to have a critical flaw. Though gotta wait to read more impressions about the MU3


----------



## bladefd (Feb 26, 2021)

PixelSquish said:


> It's really too bad Panasonic shafted the Technics with no Aptx. There are probably a lot of Android users out there not familiar with codecs getting subpar sound with those than they should be.
> 
> I think may as well wait to see what Sony puts out next. Everything else seems to have a critical flaw. Though gotta wait to read more impressions about the MU3


Yeah, you are better off waiting until the summer for something new. If you are enjoying your MTW2 then just stick to it for a few months. Honestly, you are not getting a big upgrade in sound quality out of any of the current crop of TWS over the MTW2. You might get minor improvement here, minor improvement there but drastic improvement?? I doubt it - you are already at the high-end with the MTW2, which has awesome sound imo.

I'm certain MTW2 will be bested certainly sooner or later - that is 2019 tech, but covid has thrown a monkey-wrench into 2020. I expect 2021 to be a catchup year for stuff we missed out on in 2020. There was a lot of talk of Devialet Gemini recently, but apparently they have some firmware issues. You could try that out or wait to see if they fix issues with a firmware.


----------



## Canabuc

PixelSquish said:


> I've had the Senn Momentum TW2's since April and absolutely am in love with them. They get used every day and my high end wired IEM's are just gathering dust. If I wanted to get a second pair of True Wireless buds to be able to throw into the mix that are high end as well that can give me sound on par with the Senns' but perhaps slightly different, what would you recommend? There are probably only a few that truly compare no? Sony's are out because I don't like how they fit, with so much of the bud outside of your ear. The Technics look really good to me, anybody used both?



I prefer JBL to the Technics except for noise cancelling.
I am in middle of deciding on keeping them vs the Sony. Similar sound between the 2 with Sony having slightly crisper highs vs JBL having tighter stronger bass. After EQ of course.


----------



## Canabuc

Luke Skywalker said:


> Wow I just got my KEF mu3.  The sound is absolutely incredible with my iPhone. The case and buds are stunning looking and they fit amazing. Blows away Sony XM3, Jabra 65, NUARL N6P
> 
> These might be my endgame TWS. came super fast too (USA).



Is ANC sub par


----------



## Canabuc

Luke Skywalker said:


> Sure!  So this isn’t very scientific but I went into my bathroom that has a loud fan and it was dead silent with Katie Melua stardust playing. One press on the left switched to ambient and i could clearly hear the fan. One more press turned ANC off (voice confirmation on each mode btw).
> 
> As someone else said, the fit is incredible so some of this might be passive. It came with 3 other sets of tips but I just stuck them in my ears and it’s perfect. it almost feels like a magnet is holding them inside my ears. Super pimp looking too and they don’t stick out at all
> 
> haven’t tested phone calls get



Would be curious to know how ANC works with no music playing and can there then you can see what it does vs just passive isolation.


----------



## Canabuc

bladefd said:


> Did you enjoy the Sony wf-1000xm3 sound signature? If you did, then you should like the Melomania Touch. You seem to have a big budget though so you should be able to get something even better like say kuf mu3 and 85t. I honestly do not believe you are going to get much better sound quality than the Sennheiser mtw2.
> 
> I personally was not a huge fan of the technics AZ70 sound signature (missing the oomph in the lows and sound stage not as good as others) and had some comfort issues (they stuck out too much too causing some comfort issues). I enjoyed the Sennheiser, Sony wf-1000xm3 and Melomania Touch sound signatures more for sure. I felt the sennheiser mtw2 sound signature was noticeably better than the AZ70, but quite a few posters here are big fans of the AZ70. You can try it out certainly.



Interesting feel same way as you do. But have some interesting observations consulting Sony and Sennheiser.
Sony's are much brighter sounding. Colder if you will. That can be tuned out to some degree with EQ. MTW2 are very warm sounding but their EQ doesn't change the sound much.
When I listen to one for any length of time my brain burns in and the sound is great. When I switch to the other which has such a different sound signature it sound awful for a while until my brain burns in again. Ironically though I love how both sound.
The JBL sound very similar to don't and the transition listening to one or the other is more seamless.
My cx400bt came in and while the signature is definitely like the MTW2, it seems to miss a bit of  low end by comparison and the highs seen a bit higher. Only really notice when doing A/B comparison.

Final note on Sony vs Sennheiser is volume. But sure you experience but in my Samsung phone volume goes to 0-150.
When I listen to Sony at about 90 or about 60%, I need to our the MTW2 up to about 105 or 110 ( 70to73%) for equivalent volume.
The cx400 and  MTW2 are the lowest volume earbuds! Means their battery ratings are for garbage as 7 hours is at 50% volume which are too low except for late night in the dark listening.

So now my debate and I welcome opinions.....

1. Keep the MTW2 to be my only pair and use the Fiil for exercise.

2. Keep Sony to be my pair for sound and great ANC. Keep the Cx400 for that Sennheiser sound. Both together cost me same price as the MTW2.

3. Keep JBL and cx400bt. Lose out on good noise canceling but get wireless charging and smaller case . Price for both within 15$ of the MTW2.

4. Keep one of the JBL(170$ USD) Sony ($155) and cx400 ($100) and use the savings to wait on something newer coming down the pipe this year such as the rumored xm4,Kef, updated Gemini or other.

My 1st priority is sound quality but I do want good ANC and ambient if I am going to pay anything over 150$ USD.


----------



## Canabuc

My preliminary out of 10 active noise canceling rating:

Sony wf-1000xm3 9/10
Jabra 85t 8.5/10
Buds pro  7.5/10 seal dependant
MTW2 7/10 seal dependent
Jabra 75t 6/10
Fiil T1PRO 6/10
JBL club pro plus 3/10

Have not tested APP or Bose


----------



## Canabuc

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Couldn't resist and pulled the trigger on the JBL Club Pro Plus. I need another pair like I need a hole in my head, but I've passed on enough JBL gear in my life and regretted it. I'm familiar with KEF's house sound and it's a little too subdued for my tastes (and would probably be pretty similar to the M&Ds).
> 
> To be honest, I haven't found a clear winner overall yet. Seems like each pair I own excels in some areas, but has a clear-cut con somewhere else.
> 
> ...



Like you have been hunting for the perfect TWS bud.
If someone could put the Sony, JBL Sennheiser or galaxy buds pro sound into the 85t but with the foot of the buds plus or Fiil T1pro, my search would be over LoL!


----------



## dweaver

PixelSquish said:


> I've had the Senn Momentum TW2's since April and absolutely am in love with them. They get used every day and my high end wired IEM's are just gathering dust. If I wanted to get a second pair of True Wireless buds to be able to throw into the mix that are high end as well that can give me sound on par with the Senns' but perhaps slightly different, what would you recommend? There are probably only a few that truly compare no? Sony's are out because I don't like how they fit, with so much of the bud outside of your ear. The Technics look really good to me, anybody used both?





PixelSquish said:


> Thanks for the great info. Yeah I'm looking to spend up to $250 as I just sold my Meze Rai Penta's. I have not heard the Sony's but I just really hate that fit/look. The kef Mu3 looks intriguing but it seems they are not available from a US e-tailer yet and no real reviews out either, just a bunch of marketing fluff pieces from a quick Google. Maybe I should wait and hear more about those. I have read some nice things about the Jabra 85T and trying to get over my bias of them being more of a making phone calls company rather than a high end audio experience company. I do use the Senn's for phone calls when I happen to be walking my dog and they work fine, don't need anything better. I just want really good sound, something to switch it up with.


I have the AZ70 and the WF-1000XM3 and also own the original MTW (dead now so have to go by memory). The AZ70 have what I would call a mid/treble centric signature with deep sub-bass but the mid-bass is very flat. This would definitely give you a change up from the MTW2 which if they are the MTW are a bit warmer in nature and have a bit of a mid bass hump. Sound stage wise I think they might be close to comparable from my ears anyway. The Sony has a bit heavier bass than the both and is a smoother richer signature with crossing the line into being dark or too bassy. I would say they a bass/midcentric with decent highs. I would say it would be more like the MTW2 except Senns and Sony have very different driver designs especially when it comes to presentation of instruments like cymbals so have to be careful in that statement.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

PixelSquish said:


> The clarity of the Penta's in the mids and highs was amazing, while still being lush and organic, just could have used a touch more bass. I just noticed the Technics don't support AptX, that's a bummer   I'm on Android.


I mean I'm all smiles with the UE. Granted, I try to cycle through all of my pairs to make sure they get a good rotation, but I'll be darned if I'm not a little giddier right before I reach for the UEs every time. Sounds like you've already got that laid-back pair with the MTWs. I know it pushes the boundary of $250, but that's where I'd put my money if I had to do it all over again. I wish it had more features, but the fit is great enough to make for a lot of passive isolation and none of that matters anyway once you turn the volume up at all. Resolution is incredible and, as I've said before, it's pretty responsive to EQ. Just can't use it on a computer (yet...we'll see if that changes once the Jabra Link 380 arrives).


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

Canabuc said:


> Like you have been hunting for the perfect TWS bud.
> If someone could put the Sony, JBL Sennheiser or galaxy buds pro sound into the 85t but with the foot of the buds plus or Fiil T1pro, my search would be over LoL!


I'd be down to see someone cross-develop Bose's ANC, UE's driver tuning and molding system, Jabra's call quality, and Soundcore's app, I'd be set.

Oh and shell designed by The Wizard...because reasons.


----------



## Tommy C

Luke Skywalker said:


> Still listening to the mu3’s here. Realized that the noise cancelation isn’t quite up to what I remember my Bose to be. If you’re in a room full of people talking loudly you can definitely hear it.



Do they have an app?


----------



## samandhi

bronco1015 said:


> Awesome. Yeah the case feels solid, it's just the hinge is so loose feeling. When i got them i was in the middle of moving and never got around to asking nuarl. it's not like the lid just flops all over the place, i just wish it felt more secure to me than it does. The buds are solid indeed.


I guess there IS a bit of play when the lid is open, though I would not have noticed it until you mentioned it. Also I wouldn't have seen this as an issue either way. I think the way it is designed is a long roller pin that simply goes from one end to the other, and the top lid is not fit perfect in the bottom part, thus using the roller pin to make up the difference in slack. I would bet that you could get rid of some of the play (if it bothers you) using a hair dryer on it (kinda' like shrink tubing).


----------



## SemiAudiophile

Canabuc said:


> My cx400bt came in and while the signature is definitely like the MTW2, it seems to miss a bit of  low end by comparison and the highs seen a bit higher. Only really notice when doing A/B comparison.



The MTW2 measures +3db in bass IIRC compared to the CX400. Can be easily adjusted in EQ though if needed.


----------



## Canabuc

SemiAudiophile said:


> The MTW2 measures +3db in bass IIRC compared to the CX400. Can be easily adjusted in EQ though if needed.


I find the 3 band EQ doesn't seem to change the sound much. You would think if I boosted all 3 bands by say 4 db the volume should sound louder but it doesn't. Only notice a change when I boost on band relative to the others.

Will try the 3 db boost. The question is will such a wide range of bass frequencies really reproduce the bass changes accurately?

Also do you recommend if they other wise sound the same to go with those at the 100$ price I go them for or the 255 I got the MTW2. I have 1 more week to decide if the added features are worth the price of owning another set of buds.


----------



## SemiAudiophile

Canabuc said:


> I find the 3 band EQ doesn't seem to change the sound much. You would think if I boosted all 3 bands by say 4 db the volume should sound louder but it doesn't. Only notice a change when I boost on band relative to the others.
> 
> Will try the 3 db boost. The question is will such a wide range of bass frequencies really reproduce the bass changes accurately?
> 
> Also do you recommend if they other wise sound the same to go with those at the 100$ price I go them for or the 255 I got the MTW2. I have 1 more week to decide if the added features are worth the price of owning another set of buds.


I think you should give it some time and see if the differences in features/sound really make up the cost difference...A decision I won't be able to help you with unfortunately. 😆


----------



## samandhi

Canabuc said:


> I find the 3 band EQ doesn't seem to change the sound much. You would think if I boosted all 3 bands by say 4 db the volume should sound louder but it doesn't. Only notice a change when I boost on band relative to the others.
> 
> Will try the 3 db boost. The question is will such a wide range of bass frequencies really reproduce the bass changes accurately?
> 
> Also do you recommend if they other wise sound the same to go with those at the 100$ price I go them for or the 255 I got the MTW2. I have 1 more week to decide if the added features are worth the price of owning another set of buds.


That is because most apps nowadays have auto gain settings in the EQ app. This means one of two things. It will either automatically decrease the gain by a static amount, or will do it on the fly as needed. By decreasing the gain (the overall volume) you can adjust the EQ settings to whatever you want and it still won't clip. This has become very popular as the end user doesn't need to know all about using proper EQ settings to tweak to their liking. 

If you use an app like UAPP you can set it to "Auto Gain", or you can turn it off, and take the chance of the sound clipping if you boost a frequency too much and don't decrease the gain the amount needed to keep it from clipping. Think of it this way, when you increase a frequency above 0 (which is 100% volume), you are boosting the volume in that frequency alone, while leaving the others at 0 (or again 100%). The best way to properly EQ without distorting or clipping is by using subtractive EQ, rather than boosting frequencies (try and keep the frequency you want boosted at 0, and the rest take some away). This WILL mean you need to increase the overall volume, but you will get better results using this technique.

With a 3 band equalizer (with, say a +10db max) and boosted all to +4db, you are basically trying to boost the entire/overall volume by almost 50%. If the app didn't have auto gain, the sound would clip on almost every note, and would sound horrible.


----------



## Nene93

I have Edifier X3 which I am quite happy with, incredible value for money. But they hurt me after 30/40 minutes. 
I am considering buying Galaxy Buds +, or Melomania Touch. Could someone tell me if they are more comfortable? 

Thank you.


----------



## Kuli

PixelSquish said:


> It's really too bad Panasonic shafted the Technics with no Aptx. There are probably a lot of Android users out there not familiar with codecs getting subpar sound with those than they should be.
> 
> I think may as well wait to see what Sony puts out next. Everything else seems to have a critical flaw. Though gotta wait to read more impressions about the MU3


The codec is really not that noticeable IMO. Sound source plays a bigger role. 10mm graphene coated driver of the Technics delivers amazing midrange. And a warmer sound signature with ANC or ambient mode on without sacrificingany details.

Listening to it side by side with my Sennheisers just makes the Senns sound muddy.


----------



## highlightshadow

Just looks like maybe a long wait for the international release of the UE Fits .... they look like they'd be perfect for me .... i've yet to find a set of IEM's or TWS ear that stay in my ears properly ... can't abide foam tips and i've tried about 10 different models of the silicone ones but just can never seem to get them to stay in my right ear


----------



## bronco1015

miserybeforethemusic said:


> The UAs are, to my memory, basically mid-tier JBLs that are more workout tough. If waterproofing and a secure fit are your top priorities, then go for it. Those types of in-ears are usually pretty uncomfortable long-term, too. Seems like the smarter buy would be to either a) get the Club Pro+ if you need something now or b) wait a few more weeks for the seasonal announcements to be made to see if they're releasing another. JBL does have a knack for quietly discontinuing things, though, so I wouldn't sleep on it too long.
> 
> As for the RHA, I think they'll probably sound fine and it's nice to see aptX, but I'm a little confused that it's not aptX Adaptive. For a new release, that would seem to me to be a requirement.


i agree on APTX adaptive, i'd like to see it, my V60 supports it. as for the UA, i should have prefaced, i saw those and thought of my Sister and many friends with small ears who want something good for running. These might just fit the bill perfectly for that.


----------



## bronco1015

PixelSquish said:


> It's really too bad Panasonic shafted the Technics with no Aptx. There are probably a lot of Android users out there not familiar with codecs getting subpar sound with those than they should be.
> 
> I think may as well wait to see what Sony puts out next. Everything else seems to have a critical flaw. Though gotta wait to read more impressions about the MU3


i thought the same thing with the AZ70, but i got a review unit so didn't buy them so heres what i'd say. Before that i was tempted to buy them, but no APTX was basicly a deal breaker. having heard them, i'm quite happy with them but i would not have pulled the triggor based on no APTX. They're a great posibility if you want something now, but like @bladefd said, you're better off waiting.
My prediction, the WF XM4 won't have APTX. They'll have SBC, AAC and the 330 KBPS version of LDAC, maybe 660 KBPS.


----------



## bronco1015

samandhi said:


> I guess there IS a bit of play when the lid is open, though I would not have noticed it until you mentioned it. Also I wouldn't have seen this as an issue either way. I think the way it is designed is a long roller pin that simply goes from one end to the other, and the top lid is not fit perfect in the bottom part, thus using the roller pin to make up the difference in slack. I would bet that you could get rid of some of the play (if it bothers you) using a hair dryer on it (kinda' like shrink tubing).


Oh that's brilliant. never thought of that. Thanks for the recommendation.


----------



## X-Nemesis

tinyman392 said:


> I've never had issues with buttons and kind of prefer any sort of pressure-based system.  Touch controls tend to be very finicky for me and have a small learning curve with every headphone (timing differences, location of the touch sensitive areas, etc.).  Some are done better than others, but there is a lot of inconsistency.  A button is a physical mechanism and you get feedback from it so you know it was pressed.  Accidental touches when adjusting fit is also less of an issue with buttons as well.


I agree,  I've encountered enough finicky touch issues in my use, but with the few button based tws it's not something to worry about,  and a good click response is satisfying. And works worth gloves and a hat on.


----------



## diimaan

For the tip rollers out there, these are the tips I have tried with KEF Mu3!

Custom Eartips:
Acoustune AET08
AZLA Sedna Earfit Light Short
AZLA SednaEarfit XELASTEC for APP
MandarinEs Symbio W
SpinFit CP360

Stock Eartips:
Nuarl N6P Stock
Samsung Galaxy Buds Plus Stock

Out of all these tips only three tips fit the charging case of KEF Mu3!

Nuarl N6P Stock
Samsung Galaxy Buds Plus Stock
SpinFit CP360

N6P' Stock are wide bore. I liked the sound with GBP Stock's but the fit was little iffy! So I am currently using the Mu3's with CP360! And the ANC it is not sub par but not at the same level as Bose, Sony, Jabra's, even though I do not own the other buds but I have heard enough on them from my matey! I guess the reason could be because of the passive isolation because of the fit!
Ambience mode is okayish'! Kinda tinny and it is almost similar to GBP on low-medium.


----------



## diimaan

Does anyone has both KEF and JBL Club Pro's? 
I am seriously looking at them and ANC doesn't matter to me but the ambience is as I go on biking with them often! 
Wind noise is a serious problem with all these buds!

The only one with zero wind noise problems I had so far is Haylou T16!


----------



## cleg

I've posted this video to the TRN thread, but probably here it could be useful too  

My video about TRN T300. Really good offer (IMHO) in terms of sound, but the microphone could've been better


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

bronco1015 said:


> i agree on APTX adaptive, i'd like to see it, my V60 supports it. as for the UA, i should have prefaced, i saw those and thought of my Sister and many friends with small ears who want something good for running. These might just fit the bill perfectly for that.


Honestly, both the Earfun and the M&D have the same kind of secure fit. With the right tip/fin combo, neither are going to budge and they're both good at alleviating pressure points. I think it comes down to your preferred sound signature in the end.


----------



## Canabuc

Last night was listening to the jbl club pro plus at about 40% volume with my home made EQ settings and had some wow moments.
The bass even at that low volume extended low and could feel it in certain songs with move texture and never hiring the other ranges.
The sound stage send wider than I remember for the songs in that play list too. Really felt as wife at least on that moment as any TWS I have tested.

At one point I the in the Sony and the Sennheiser and did not get quite same feeling.

They also are pretty comfortable though I am using tips from my Liberty 2 pro as their tips were too small for me even in large.

Well do some more listening but so far these might just be my favorite sounding earbuds at least for low volume listening. More to come.


----------



## BobJS (Feb 27, 2021)

Kuli said:


> The codec is really not that noticeable IMO. Sound source plays a bigger role. 10mm graphene coated driver of the Technics delivers amazing midrange. And a warmer sound signature with ANC or ambient mode on without sacrificingany details.
> 
> Listening to it side by side with my Sennheisers just makes the Senns sound muddy.



You're certainly entitled to your opinion, but, as for me, uh ... no.  Samsung Galaxy user here and in this day and age there's just no need to settle for inferior sound of AAC.  Maybe it doesn't matter if you listen to < Spotify quality bitrate.  When I'm on the go, I listen to FLAC on my phone, or Tidal (through UAPP), and the codec difference between aptx and AAC is very noticeable.

It's a given that when you're out and about, sound quality doesn't matter as much as when you're at home with your premium gear, but still, for me, there's no need to settle.


----------



## SilverEars

BobJS said:


> You're certainly entitled to your opinion, but, as for me, uh ... no.  Samsung Galaxy user here and in this day and age there's just no need to settle for inferior sound of AAC.  Maybe it doesn't matter if you listen to < Spotify quality bitrate.  When I'm on the go, I listen to FLAC on my phone, or Tidal (through UAPP), and the codec difference between aptx and AAC is very noticeable.
> 
> It's a given that when you're out and about, sound quality doesn't matter as much as when you're at home with your premium gear, but still, for me, there's no need to settle.


That's the reason why I stick with Android.  Easy music drop and play system, and USB Audio Player Pro.  I tend to like Samsung phones as they work really well (At least compared to LG). I just hate that they recently try to do the same as Apple does.


----------



## samandhi

Kuli said:


> The codec is really not that noticeable IMO. Sound source plays a bigger role. 10mm graphene coated driver of the Technics delivers amazing midrange. And a warmer sound signature with ANC or ambient mode on without sacrificingany details.
> 
> Listening to it side by side with my Sennheisers just makes the Senns sound muddy.


Sound source on bluetooth speakers/IEMs etc... make no differnce at all, except when a music player is not bit perfect (has coloration introduced by the software driver). With bluetooth, the source only acts as a transport. All the DSP and amping is done in the earphones themselves. So, if you have a pc with a bit perfect music player, and a phone that has a bit perfect music player app, there should not be a difference in sound when connecting to each. The implementation of the codec (for bluetooth) is more important in this case. 

Implementation of the codecs make a world of difference. SBC gets a bad rap because it used to have a poor compression algorithm compared to AptX or AAC (it has recently been updated). SBC actually has better capabilities than AAC. AAC is only capable of 16/44 at 320, where SBC is capable of 16/48 at 345. AptX has better capabilities at 16/48 at 384. In all reality these are all good sounding codecs when implemented well. Why do I say this? Well, so far I have not heard any TWS that are on par with any audiophile grade IEMs, so I would argue that you are not missing anything (most people can't tell the difference between 320 mp3 and 16/44 CD quality except on some of the best headphone/IEMs). 

I agree with you (though I have not heard the TWS you are referring to) that NOT having AptX makes little difference (in this case). I have the Hifiman TWS600, and while I don't really like the tuning on them, they sound (where codecs are concerned) fantastic, and I can't tell the difference between those with the SBC codec, and my Hifiman Deva with LDAC (or even LDHC) quality-wise.


----------



## Canabuc

samandhi said:


> Sound source on bluetooth speakers/IEMs etc... make no differnce at all, except when a music player is not bit perfect (has coloration introduced by the software driver). With bluetooth, the source only acts as a transport. All the DSP and amping is done in the earphones themselves. So, if you have a pc with a bit perfect music player, and a phone that has a bit perfect music player app, there should not be a difference in sound when connecting to each. The implementation of the codec (for bluetooth) is more important in this case.
> 
> Implementation of the codecs make a world of difference. SBC gets a bad rap because it used to have a poor compression algorithm compared to AptX or AAC (it has recently been updated). SBC actually has better capabilities than AAC. AAC is only capable of 16/44 at 320, where SBC is capable of 16/48 at 345. AptX has better capabilities at 16/48 at 384. In all reality these are all good sounding codecs when implemented well. Why do I say this? Well, so far I have not heard any TWS that are on par with any audiophile grade IEMs, so I would argue that you are not missing anything (most people can't tell the difference between 320 mp3 and 16/44 CD quality except on some of the best headphone/IEMs).
> 
> I agree with you (though I have not heard the TWS you are referring to) that NOT having AptX makes little difference (in this case). I have the Hifiman TWS600, and while I don't really like the tuning on them, they sound (where codecs are concerned) fantastic, and I can't tell the difference between those with the SBC codec, and my Hifiman Deva with LDAC (or even LDHC) quality-wise.


I agree with what you say about the various codecs. However they all use slightly different algorithms for how they compress a higher quality source. In the case of SBC I think it struggles with more of the higher frequency sounds and cuts them off more so that there is more of a roll off in the treble. As such music tends to sound more bass heavy with sbc. In the case of AAC they use some form of psycho acoustic algorithms such that at a lower bit rate they can achieve a higher sound quality compared to MP3. In the case of APTX I think the quality of the compressiondoesn't vary through the frequency range.


----------



## samandhi

Canabuc said:


> I agree with what you say about the various codecs. However they all use slightly different algorithms for how they compress a higher quality source. In the case of SBC I think it struggles with more of the higher frequency sounds and cuts them off more so that there is more of a roll off in the treble. As such music tends to sound more bass heavy with sbc. In the case of AAC they use some form of psycho acoustic algorithms such that at a lower bit rate they can achieve a higher sound quality compared to MP3. In the case of APTX I think the quality of the compressiondoesn't vary through the frequency range.


I totally agree with you. It is still going to come down to the implementation of the manufacturer. Most nowadays are pretty lazy. when not implemented correctly (most common today) it is actually only capable of 192kbs. This is definitely where you hear the loss of high frequency. 

All of the codecs are guilty of this to some extent. LDAC, for instance when trying to run at higher bit rates will cut off anything above 20k (of course it is arguable if you can even hear above this, but that is another conversation altogether). LDAC actually is outperformed by AAC and AptX with its default setting on an android device. Unless you go into developers options and force the bit rate, it is set to "Best Effort" and will only run at 330kbs (as opposed to its capability of 990).  I have forced this bitrate with my Deva and found that my phone (Samsung Note 9) won't run above "Best Effort" very well, and skips often.


----------



## cr3ativ3

Anyone heard the new RHA true control yet ?

https://www.rha-audio.com/de/headphones/wireless/truecontrol-anc?c=150


----------



## clerkpalmer

BobJS said:


> You're certainly entitled to your opinion, but, as for me, uh ... no.  Samsung Galaxy user here and in this day and age there's just no need to settle for inferior sound of AAC.  Maybe it doesn't matter if you listen to < Spotify quality bitrate.  When I'm on the go, I listen to FLAC on my phone, or Tidal (through UAPP), and the codec difference between aptx and AAC is very noticeable.
> 
> It's a given that when you're out and about, sound quality doesn't matter as much as when you're at home with your premium gear, but still, for me, there's no need to settle.


There more going on here however. Yes you can hear a difference between aac and aptx on android but it’s not because aptx is superior to aac it’s because aptx is superior to android’s implementation of aac which is well known to be poor. A better comparison would be aac on iOS to aptx on android. If you compare those you won’t hear any difference or maybe even the aac will be superior. There is a lot of information out there on this. AAC as implemented by Apple is an excellent codec. It’s not very good on android so when on android choose Aptx every time.


----------



## tinyman392

cr3ativ3 said:


> Anyone heard the new RHA true control yet ?
> 
> https://www.rha-audio.com/de/headphones/wireless/truecontrol-anc?c=150


Ι think this was posted about yesterday, but not much has been said about them.  The shaping looks better than their previous TWS offering which is a plus; looks a _lot_ more ergonomic.  That said, I don’t think anyone has any clue how they sound.  RHA can be quite hit or miss with their SQ if their history is anything to go by.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

cr3ativ3 said:


> Anyone heard the new RHA true control yet ?
> 
> https://www.rha-audio.com/de/headphones/wireless/truecontrol-anc?c=150



That guy has. Obv have to take it with a grain of salt, but it at least gets you in the ballpark


----------



## cr3ativ3

miserybeforethemusic said:


> That guy has. Obv have to take it with a grain of salt, but it at least gets you in the ballpark





they sound pretty odd somehow...


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

cr3ativ3 said:


> they sound pretty odd somehow...



Similar happens from video to video. I think he's getting poor seals on the Noble and it's more noticeable in that test because there's a clear L/R bass imbalance. The RHA seem to be distorting and I can't tell if it's his rig or the RHAs when it happens.

Then again, he could just be intentionally making one product sound worse than the other for all I know.


----------



## Canabuc

Other issue with those videos are they are done at the stock EQ settings. JBL sound thin yet with EQ they have the best bass of all I have tested.


----------



## cr3ativ3

Canabuc said:


> Other issue with those videos are they are done at the stock EQ settings. JBL sound thin yet with EQ they have the best bass of all I have tested.


Did you tried mtw2   ?


----------



## Canabuc

cr3ativ3 said:


> Did you tried mtw2   ?


Right now I have MTW2 CX400BT Jbl Club pro plus Sonly Wf1000xm3 to go with my Fiil T1 pro.
Am debating what to keep based first and foremost on sound quality then feature and value.
All sound great but the best bass goes to JBL. Best miss and vocals go to Sennheiser. Treble Sony.
ANC Sony. Comfort and value Fiil.

Right now the Sony occasional has some audio drop outs wher for like half second sound cuts out. Helps to choose connection stability mode over sound quality.

Too bas as I love the ANC and they were great price but that and lack of ip rating and their bulk I think they are out of the running.
So now it’s down to JBL which would be a no brainer if ANC was better or MTW2. I can keep cx400 and JBL for almost same price as MTW2.


----------



## Canabuc

just saw this video well done to hear sound differences on some tws.
Dont like sound of the Bose so will not consider them.
curious to hear others opinions on the sounds.


----------



## BobJS

clerkpalmer said:


> There more going on here however. Yes you can hear a difference between aac and aptx on android but it’s not because aptx is superior to aac it’s because aptx is superior to android’s implementation of aac which is well known to be poor. A better comparison would be aac on iOS to aptx on android. If you compare those you won’t hear any difference or maybe even the aac will be superior. There is a lot of information out there on this. AAC as implemented by Apple is an excellent codec. It’s not very good on android so when on android choose Aptx every time.


Agree completely. Didn't mean to imply otherwise.


----------



## cr3ativ3

Canabuc said:


> just saw this video well done to hear sound differences on some tws.
> Dont like sound of the Bose so will not consider them.
> curious to hear others opinions on the sounds.



in this video the bose sounds somehow hollow ?  not really "good" in my opinion ...


----------



## 543293

Has anyone ever heard of and/or tried *Remax* products? If you have, what's your opinion on the sound signature?

I have one of their TWS and it seems to sound better than stuff like the FIILs.


----------



## erockg

tinyman392 said:


> Ι think this was posted about yesterday, but not much has been said about them.  The shaping looks better than their previous TWS offering which is a plus; looks a _lot_ more ergonomic.  That said, I don’t think anyone has any clue how they sound.  RHA can be quite hit or miss with their SQ if their history is anything to go by.


Had them, returned them.  Fit is great, sound not so much.  A little low and not very robust.  Many better options out there.  I think I may have posted pics when they first came out.


----------



## PixelSquish

Gonna try the JBL Club Pro Plus from Amazon. Kinda would like some thumping bass with the music I'm listening to now. Let's see how they roll.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

PixelSquish said:


> Gonna try the JBL Club Pro Plus from Amazon. Kinda would like some thumping bass with the music I'm listening to now. Let's see how they roll.


I'll be discovering right along with you. Sounds like we'll be spending some pretty extensive time figuring out what EQ settings we prefer until we can make a solid decision.


----------



## Canabuc

PixelSquish said:


> Gonna try the JBL Club Pro Plus from Amazon. Kinda would like some thumping bass with the music I'm listening to now. Let's see how they roll.


Two things I strongly recommend. First of all don’t even bother listening to them until you go into the equalizer app and make some adjustments. You will find the volume low I am very flat sounding otherwise. Second thing is at least for me I typically wear a medium your tip on my left ear and a large on the right, however even with both large your tips I had some difficulty getting seal. So you may want to look at other tips to try on it.

Once you do that you’ll be very pleasantly surprised at how good these can sound. You can have very impactful bass but that still has texture and depth without sounding bloated or boomy. Myths and highs are also very good as well once equalized.

I have been comparing it back-and-forth with the Sennheiser omentum to Wireless too, and I have to say I’m starting to like the sound of these more. There are some individual songs where the sanitizers just have such beautiful vocal clarity and texture to the meds and trouble that it sounds very nice. However on some other songs there seems to sometimes be some overlap between the upper base registers and the lower mid‘s making some Instruments and voices sound a little bit muffled.

I do not have this issue with the JBL because the EQ is so extensive that you can really tune it to your satisfaction. Additionally they get much louder than the Sennheiser ‘s. I would say on the order of 10 to 15% overall. As I’ve said in a previous post I use a Samsung galaxy phone and on it the volume goes from 0 to 150. I find if I listen to the JBL at say 50% I would need to listen to the Sennheiser ‘s at 65% to get equivalent volume. This is not an issue for late night listening when I keep the volume low but depending on the environment you are going to use these in you may want to listen to your music louder and there is less headroom with the Sennheisers.

My main criticism of the JBL has to do with the active noise canceling. Maybe I need to try different ear tips that isolate more than the ones I’ve been using on them (ones from my liberty 2 pro). I would think the potential for better noise cancelling is there because they do use a six microphone system rather than a four microphone system that is used in many other earbuds. Given that they can do both feedback and feet forward and see one would think with a firmware update that they could increase the strength of the ANC.

Oddly the other noise cancelling earbuds that are in the process of being released both now and in May don’t seem to have any upgraded internals in terms of battery life driver system or features except that the NC in the app looks to allow for adjustment of the ANC. I wonder if that will end up coming to these earbuds as these really have only been out for a couple of months available to the public and even then there have probably not been many sold as JBL‘s on site has been sold out and even Amazon barely seems to have it in stock.


----------



## Tommy C

Lorelock said:


> Has anyone ever heard of and/or tried *Remax* products? If you have, what's your opinion on the sound signature?
> 
> I have one of their TWS and it seems to sound better than stuff like the FIILs.



What about Remax? Never heard of them and they are probably like the rest of the hundreds of the Chinese brands that pop-up like mushrooms.


----------



## Canabuc

My EQ settings at moment on JBL.
I keep tweaking of this pattern especially between 500 and 4k to get vocals where I want them.


----------



## VICosPhi (Feb 27, 2021)

After listening to Buds Pro and most other competing TWS, I still think nothing matches Sennheiser MTW2 as a total TWS package with best SQ. 

Just read this news which doesn't look promising for future consumer audio products from Sennheiser, but hopefully Sennheiser retains their consumer audio division and gets a good investor to bring us MTW future iterations.

https://en-us.sennheiser.com/newsro...ess-units-independently-of-each-other-s5jh2n?


----------



## TK33

clerkpalmer said:


> There more going on here however. Yes you can hear a difference between aac and aptx on android but it’s not because aptx is superior to aac it’s because aptx is superior to android’s implementation of aac which is well known to be poor. A better comparison would be aac on iOS to aptx on android. If you compare those you won’t hear any difference or maybe even the aac will be superior. There is a lot of information out there on this. AAC as implemented by Apple is an excellent codec. It’s not very good on android so when on android choose Aptx every time.


He did mention he is a Samsung Galaxy user in the post you quoted.  I am also a long time Android and Windows user and have never had (and most likely never will have) an iPhone or mac.  Therefore, how good AAC can sound when properly implemented on an Apple device is irrelevant to me if it does not sound good on Android.  That said, I don't necessarily shy away from TWS because it does not have aptX but I definitely prefer that it does.  I am not trying to bash AAC as I am sure it sounds great on Apple devices but for an Android user, I agree AAC is not great (due to implementation on Android) and I think that was his point. I also understand codec is only a small part of it but if your source is crippled from the start, you have already limited yourself in terms of SQ. Unfortunately the world of TWS is full of trade-offs.

I was super excited that KEF was coming out with the mu3 but decided I would hold off mainly because it is AAC and SBC only and that is the one thing I have not been happy about with my Galaxy Buds Live ever since I got rid of my Samsung Galaxy S9 (no more scalable codec for me)...they just do not sound good with my One Plus 8T over AAC and I find I have to max volume sometimes. I loved them when I had a Samsung phone.


----------



## Canabuc

VICosPhi said:


> After listening to Buds Pro and most other competing TWS, I still think nothing matches Sennheiser MTW2 as a total TWS package with best SQ.
> 
> Just read this news which doesn't look promising for future consumer audio products from Sennheiser, but hopefully Sennheiser retains their consumer audio division and gets a good investor to bring us MTW future iterations.
> 
> https://en-us.sennheiser.com/newsro...ess-units-independently-of-each-other-s5jh2n?



I really do love their sound for most music. I find some songs the lower mids seem to be blanketed a bit from the upper bass and lack some clarity.
Volume needs to be about 10% louder as well. Also the case is too big for the amount of recharges and needs Qi charging at that price point. ANC is ok not class leading.  So I feel that the price point is a bit high. I think they and Bose you pay for the name. They should be 225$ max and go on sale often for 200$

The cx400bt were just on sale for 100 with basically same sound performance. You lose ipx4 hear through and ANC and case is 1 charge less but also noticeably smaller. Price was 2.5x less than the best sale price for the MTW2.

I am debating what to do as I really do enjoy the whole package of the MTW2 but not at 100$ more than the JBL.


----------



## TK33

samandhi said:


> I totally agree with you. It is still going to come down to the implementation of the manufacturer. Most nowadays are pretty lazy. when not implemented correctly (most common today) it is actually only capable of 192kbs. This is definitely where you hear the loss of high frequency.
> 
> All of the codecs are guilty of this to some extent. LDAC, for instance when trying to run at higher bit rates will cut off anything above 20k (of course it is arguable if you can even hear above this, but that is another conversation altogether). LDAC actually is outperformed by AAC and AptX with its default setting on an android device. Unless you go into developers options and force the bit rate, it is set to "Best Effort" and will only run at 330kbs (as opposed to its capability of 990).  I have forced this bitrate with my Deva and found that my phone (Samsung Note 9) won't run above "Best Effort" very well, and skips often.


LDAC 990 really depends on the phone and device (implementation, as you note).  My Galaxy S9 had the same issues you noted.  My V60 + Qudelix 5K run at 990 by itself even on Best Effort (without me having to touch Developer Options).


----------



## TK33

VICosPhi said:


> After listening to Buds Pro and most other competing TWS, I still think nothing matches Sennheiser MTW2 as a total TWS package with best SQ.
> 
> Just read this news which doesn't look promising for future consumer audio products from Sennheiser, but hopefully Sennheiser retains their consumer audio division and gets a good investor to bring us MTW future iterations.
> 
> https://en-us.sennheiser.com/newsro...ess-units-independently-of-each-other-s5jh2n?


Agreed! I am hoping there is a MTW3 in my future


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

TK33 said:


> He did mention he is a Samsung Galaxy user in the post you quoted.  I am also a long time Android and Windows user and have never had (and most likely never will have) an iPhone or mac.  Therefore, how good AAC can sound when properly implemented on an Apple device is irrelevant to me if it does not sound good on Android.  That said, I don't necessarily shy away from TWS because it does not have aptX but I definitely prefer that it does.  I am not trying to bash AAC as I am sure it sounds great on Apple devices but for an Android user, I agree AAC is not great (due to implementation on Android) and I think that was his point. I also understand codec is only a small part of it but if your source is crippled from the start, you have already limited yourself in terms of SQ. Unfortunately the world of TWS is full of trade-offs.
> 
> I was super excited that KEF was coming out with the mu3 but decided I would hold off mainly because it is AAC and SBC only and that is the one thing I have not been happy about with my Galaxy Buds Live ever since I got rid of my Samsung Galaxy S9 (no more scalable codec for me)...they just do not sound good with my One Plus 8T over AAC and I find I have to max volume sometimes. I loved them when I had a Samsung phone.


Ok, so it's not just me who's hearing a little bit of degradation on Android when using AAC. Something was feeling off about the EFPs; maybe that's it. It's like some of the upper mids/treble are being bitcrushed or something.

Good news is I have an aptX Adaptive set on the way. I'll finally be able to see if there's some merit to the marketing.

Senn, no matter how great they sound, will remain off the table until they make things right with me on the 400BTs that haven't arrived. Since I can really only vote with my wallet on this one, I intend to do so. Good news is the UEs are, to me, in a league of their own. Was listening to some Pretty Lights earlier today and some of the tracks legitimately made me feel uneasy, matching the tone of the music. Bizarre emotional connection.


----------



## clerkpalmer

TK33 said:


> He did mention he is a Samsung Galaxy user in the post you quoted.  I am also a long time Android and Windows user and have never had (and most likely never will have) an iPhone or mac.  Therefore, how good AAC can sound when properly implemented on an Apple device is irrelevant to me if it does not sound good on Android.  That said, I don't necessarily shy away from TWS because it does not have aptX but I definitely prefer that it does.  I am not trying to bash AAC as I am sure it sounds great on Apple devices but for an Android user, I agree AAC is not great (due to implementation on Android) and I think that was his point. I also understand codec is only a small part of it but if your source is crippled from the start, you have already limited yourself in terms of SQ. Unfortunately the world of TWS is full of trade-offs.
> 
> I was super excited that KEF was coming out with the mu3 but decided I would hold off mainly because it is AAC and SBC only and that is the one thing I have not been happy about with my Galaxy Buds Live ever since I got rid of my Samsung Galaxy S9 (no more scalable codec for me)...they just do not sound good with my One Plus 8T over AAC and I find I have to max volume sometimes. I loved them when I had a Samsung phone.


Agree with all of this but there is a misconception that AAC is poor compared to Aptx and it’s not true. AAC is a more sophisticated codec than any of LDAC, Aptx and Aptx HD even if the bitrate is lower. I have LDAC on my pixel and AAC on my iPhone and I would be hard pressed to tell a difference. It’s just a completely different experience on iOS.  Among other things AAC is far more stable than LDAC.


----------



## TK33

clerkpalmer said:


> Agree with all of this but there is a misconception that AAC is poor compared to Aptx and it’s not true. AAC is a more sophisticated codec than any of LDAC, Aptx and Aptx HD even if the bitrate is lower. I have LDAC on my pixel and AAC on my iPhone and I would be hard pressed to tell a difference. It’s just a completely different experience on iOS.  Among other things AAC is far more stable than LDAC.


I hear you.  I just don't ever plan on owning Apple devices anymore.  Last Apple devices I owned was the first iPad with Retina Display.  Have moved on since then.

Instability of LDAC also varies and seems to really depends on implementation...as I mentioned above, I had issues with LDAC on my Galaxy S9 with anything above LDAC 660 (mostly with an ES100).  Q5K + V60 on LDAC has been fantastic and don't even need to go into Developer Options (no issues noted with 8T either but use V60 more for music). I think all this talk about codecs, implementation, etc. really just highlights how much more room there is for this technology to grow and improve (so, in response to the question posed by the title of this thread, no, I do not think we are not there yet).


----------



## samandhi

TK33 said:


> LDAC 990 really depends on the phone and device (implementation, as you note).  My Galaxy S9 had the same issues you noted.  My V60 + Qudelix 5K run at 990 by itself even on Best Effort (without me having to touch Developer Options).


That is pretty awesome. On my iBasso DX160 I can get 660, but 990 skips every second or so. I cannot get the Hifiman app running on the DX so I haven't been able to test the LDHC codec yet. Being as it is not implemented on android at all (yet), the driver is in the Hifiman app. It can do 24/96 at 900kbs and is a low latency codec. 

Edit: NM I figured out why it doesn't work on the DX. It is because the DX is only android 8.1 where LDHC is for 10 and up. Maybe I'll put my card in my phone and see how it works...


----------



## TK33

samandhi said:


> That is pretty awesome. On my iBasso DX160 I can get 660, but 990 skips every second or so. I cannot get the Hifiman app running on the DX so I haven't been able to test the LDHC codec yet. Being as it is not implemented on android at all (yet), the driver is in the Hifiman app. It can do 24/96 at 900kbs and is a low latency codec.
> 
> Edit: NM I figured out why it doesn't work on the DX. It is because the DX is only android 8.1 where LDHC is for 10 and up. Maybe I'll put my card in my phone and see how it works...


Good luck. My V60 was on android 10 until yesterday (now also on android 11) so maybe it does have something to do with android versions.


----------



## joel96

Several weeks ago, I made a spreadsheet with a list of IEM companies, models, prices, aptx/tws/anc inclusion, and most importantly, negative reviews at the mass production level. I've yet to find any ANC headphones that I'm ready to buy, due to availability, functionality of the ANC (not even the quality mind you--just that it functions during playback), design flaws, and more so than any other problem, companies' failures to remedy poor quality control in the manufacture stage with customer service RMAs. At the very least, this list will give an intermediate means of surveying some of the recent fully wireless products and the companies producing them. 

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/15FeK9jf98TWc7If9UCiJNBoLPujY7f3cdqEDVe7C5p4/edit?usp=sharing


----------



## earmonger (Feb 28, 2021)

joel96 said:


> Several weeks ago, I made a spreadsheet with a list of IEM companies, models, prices, aptx/tws/anc inclusion, and most importantly, negative reviews at the mass production level. I've yet to find any ANC headphones that I'm ready to buy, due to availability, functionality of the ANC (not even the quality mind you--just that it functions during playback), design flaws, and more so than any other problem, companies' failures to remedy poor quality control in the manufacture stage with customer service RMAs. At the very least, this list will give an intermediate means of surveying some of the recent fully wireless products and the companies producing them.
> 
> https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/15FeK9jf98TWc7If9UCiJNBoLPujY7f3cdqEDVe7C5p4/edit?usp=sharing


Just looking at your spreadsheet....the Sony WF-1000XM3 does indeed have noise cancellation, so that listing is erroneous. To my ears the noise cancellation setting noticeably improves the sound, with more bass, more clarity and more volume.


----------



## Enn Jott (Feb 28, 2021)

I've already had the JBL Club Pro+ and after a few days they are on their way back. Sound signature wasn't for me and the EQ can only alter that to a certain degree. Spend days tinquering with the EQ and having tried about 50-70 Settings I went from the Rting measurement and corrected the dips and highs. Was the best setting on these but the mids still lacked presence while the highs felt rasping or hoarse. Got good bass only on the DJ setting, which don't work for me otherwise. Here the corrected EQ I used.






Other than that: The app is great especially the EQ. So much to tweak there and you can save loads of EQ-settings. Fit was ok but didn't feel great. Got an ok seal but I really had to push them in. And the while the bore is not too wide it thickens quickly which can be a problem for insertion I guess. I think a had some good moments with these as they can be quite revealing, but compared to other headphones it just wasn't musical or natural sounding (too me), like my APPs ot the Melomania Touch I've had. The latter had the best bass response compared to the JBLs and had to be tamed quite a bit. NC was quite a joke by the way. Soundstage was pretty nice and separation was decent as well.

As of now I don't really know what to try next. I thought the KEFs would be interesting but really not sure. Some interesting candidates are not available in Germany. Some are out of the game because of their size/design, like the Liberty Pros ot the Sonys.


----------



## zeinharis

clerkpalmer said:


> There more going on here however. Yes you can hear a difference between aac and aptx on android but it’s not because aptx is superior to aac it’s because aptx is superior to android’s implementation of aac which is well known to be poor. A better comparison would be aac on iOS to aptx on android. If you compare those you won’t hear any difference or maybe even the aac will be superior. There is a lot of information out there on this. AAC as implemented by Apple is an excellent codec. It’s not very good on android so when on android choose Aptx every time.



I can confirm it that there’s no audible difference between APTX on my wife’s Redmi Note 8 Pro vs my iPhone 11 AAC (at least to my ears), but there’s a difference on battery life though, that being said I prefer my iPhone 11’s AAC due to longer listening times


----------



## bronco1015 (Feb 28, 2021)

TK33 said:


> Good luck. My V60 was on android 10 until yesterday (now also on android 11) so maybe it does have something to do with android versions.


I just got Android 11 on my V60 saturday Morning and i normally have to switch to 990 on my Aonic 50, but in this latest update, changing LDAC playback is freaking disabled! i know you mentioned not having to switch it but curious if yours is disabled as well? Edit, I had Aonic 50 on the brain, not on my head lol. Just realized what i'd written, i was actually wearing the Drop Panda at the time, about to switch to Aonic 50. long story short, this is only disabled while using the Panda. Not the Aonic 50, XM4 etc. weird.


----------



## FYLegend

Does anyone have any info on whether AAC or AptX compress dynamic range compared to SBC and what causes a perceived EQ shift? I recall reading somewhere AptX compresses the DR, but I'm not sure if it's adding a filter or something that cuts the highs and lows...

For many devices I find SBC Bitpool 53 to sound slightly less clean than AAC or AptX, but also has more boomy bass (which can be better or worse, it was fine for Earfun Free Pro but just made things worse for the TaoTronics 94). Where SBC 53 struggles is technical frequency sweeps (see audiocheck.net) where there is imbalance and rattling distortion absent with AAC. However, these issues have yet to severely affect music listening in a wide variety of genres. On the other hand, I have noticed a clipping/crackling distortion with AptX on two of my wireless over-ear headphones (1More MK802 and Dyplay Urban Traveller 2) in certain tracks, almost like AptX is dealing badly with certain clipping conditions.


----------



## tiagopinto

I need your help. (Don’t we all...)

I’m using the CAMT. I love the sound (and after the FW upgrade to 1.2.3, most if not all of the reported issues are gone). While using them at home I can’t complain much for their price. They definitely do the job and well, for me.

I too am looking for the perfect pair and to add to the CAMT I would only add ANC and Qi charging. For this reason, a couple of folks here have recommended I listen to the 85t.

One thing I had noticed with the MT is, while riding my bike and needing to use Transparency Mode, they do pick up a lot of wind noise. Yesterday, it was windy, I was riding with a buddy and couldn’t even understand what he was saying because of the amplified wind noise in my ears. It came to a point where it was uncomfortable and I put them back in the case. 

I know there are a few runners and bikers in here. Have you folks tried the 85t or any other brand which will not blare that wind noise into your ears?
Although in an earbud I prefer touch controls to button controls, with the MT I can’t use any neck tube or other over my ears because it will trigger the controls on the buds (and create a mess). That’s another positive on the 85t because of the buttons, for that use. 
Also, while biking, will the 85t (or any other) stay put or is there a risk they’ll fly off?

85t’s work in slave mode which is a negative to me... but they do have multipoint which is a slight plus. 

Sound quality is the most important feature for me anyway. How do they compare?

So, what should I do? What are your recommendations? 85t? LA2Pro? Other? Thanks.


----------



## sofastreamer

what is camt?


----------



## Canabuc

Enn Jott said:


> I've already had the JBL Club Pro+ and after a few days they are on their way back. Sound signature wasn't for me and the EQ can only alter that to a certain degree. Spend days tinquering with the EQ and having tried about 50-70 Settings I went from the Rting measurement and corrected the dips and highs. Was the best setting on these but the mids still lacked presence while the highs felt rasping or hoarse. Got good bass only on the DJ setting, which don't work for me otherwise. Here the corrected EQ I used.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Looking at your EQ settings I see one problem. The Sims goes to another level when you start with everything bumped up to about+4. Then from there to can make small adjustments to base mids range and treble.
I agree at close to the zero db starting line on the equalizer it sound very meh.
Now I say it gives the MTW2 a run for their money and sound at least as good as the  Sony.
I agree on the tips and that might be your other issue. I found the tips made them insecure and with a less than good seal you will lose the bass and midrange and the treble will sound tinny.

If you haven't sent them back try a larger tip (tell me what other buds you own I can tell you what worked for me)
And my EQ settings warmer in the thread.

Do agree on the ANC being weak though.


----------



## Thesonofkrypton

zeinharis said:


> I can confirm it that there’s no audible difference between APTX on my wife’s Redmi Note 8 Pro vs my iPhone 11 AAC (at least to my ears), but there’s a difference on battery life though, that being said I prefer my iPhone 11’s AAC due to longer listening times



Same here, wife has the Samsung galaxy (can't remember which one) and I have the iPhone 12 Pro using sony wf xm3, prefer the iPhone sound and honestly for on the go, it's more than good enough, it's above and beyond my expectations for wireless.  But if the xm4 can squeeze a little bit more out of the set up, I would welcome that lol


----------



## clerkpalmer

Thesonofkrypton said:


> Same here, wife has the Samsung galaxy (can't remember which one) and I have the iPhone 12 Pro using sony wf xm3, prefer the iPhone sound and honestly for on the go, it's more than good enough, it's above and beyond my expectations for wireless.  But if the xm4 can squeeze a little bit more out of the set up, I would welcome that lol


I'm gonna take it one step further and say that you won't tell a difference between LDAC and AAC on ios.  I admittedly didn't believe it and hammered Apple for not including LDAC in the APM but as I dug into it more and purchased an iPhone 12, I really am a big believer in AAC on iOS as being as good as anything out there right now even with the capped bitrates.  I'd love to hear someone who can hear a difference between LDAC and AAC - maybe it's just my old ears.  Streaming Qobuz on my iPhone is sublime and sounds better than the pixel (may be hardware?).  The biggest shortfall is the lack of a system wide EQ on iOS which always sends me back to the pixel.  Trying to use Oratory's settings for most cans these days and it just can't be done on an iPhone.  Really inexcusable at this point.  How hard could it be to implement a system wide EQ considering how solid the hardware is for audio?


----------



## zeinharis

Thesonofkrypton said:


> Same here, wife has the Samsung galaxy (can't remember which one) and I have the iPhone 12 Pro using sony wf xm3, prefer the iPhone sound and honestly for on the go, it's more than good enough, it's above and beyond my expectations for wireless.  But if the xm4 can squeeze a little bit more out of the set up, I would welcome that lol


Just like clerkpalmer said, the optimizations on both iOS (AAC) and Android (APTX), either way both are good in terms of sound quality, but if I have to choose I would go with iOS (AAC) due to battery life


----------



## zeinharis

clerkpalmer said:


> I'm gonna take it one step further and say that you won't tell a difference between LDAC and AAC on ios.  I admittedly didn't believe it and hammered Apple for not including LDAC in the APM but as I dug into it more and purchased an iPhone 12, I really am a big believer in AAC on iOS as being as good as anything out there right now even with the capped bitrates.  I'd love to hear someone who can hear a difference between LDAC and AAC - maybe it's just my old ears.  Streaming Qobuz on my iPhone is sublime and sounds better than the pixel (may be hardware?).  The biggest shortfall is the lack of a system wide EQ on iOS which always sends me back to the pixel.  Trying to use Oratory's settings for most cans these days and it just can't be done on an iPhone.  Really inexcusable at this point.  How hard could it be to implement a system wide EQ considering how solid the hardware is for audio?



I believe there’s a tweak on cydia that adds a system wide EQ, it requires you to jailbreak your iPhones, but the process of jailbreaking the phone can be troublesome though


----------



## tinyman392

FYLegend said:


> Does anyone have any info on whether AAC or AptX compress dynamic range compared to SBC and what causes a perceived EQ shift? I recall reading somewhere AptX compresses the DR, but I'm not sure if it's adding a filter or something that cuts the highs and lows...
> 
> For many devices I find SBC Bitpool 53 to sound slightly less clean than AAC or AptX, but also has more boomy bass (which can be better or worse, it was fine for Earfun Free Pro but just made things worse for the TaoTronics 94). Where SBC 53 struggles is technical frequency sweeps (see audiocheck.net) where there is imbalance and rattling distortion absent with AAC. However, these issues have yet to severely affect music listening in a wide variety of genres. On the other hand, I have noticed a clipping/crackling distortion with AptX on two of my wireless over-ear headphones (1More MK802 and Dyplay Urban Traveller 2) in certain tracks, almost like AptX is dealing badly with certain clipping conditions.



They shouldn’t compress dynamic range too much unless they’re extremely low transfer rate (think like 128 kbps AAC).  Perceived EQ shift is likely more due to any of the following: 1) DSP from source, this can be the encoding process to AAC/APTX, 2) DSP from the headphone, this can be the decoding processing from AAC/APTX to the raw waveform, EQ, or ANC/transparency modes getting mixed in, 3) coloration/distortion caused by the DAC, 4) coloration/distortion caused by the amplifier.


----------



## tinyman392

zeinharis said:


> I believe there’s a tweak on cydia that adds a system wide EQ, it requires you to jailbreak your iPhones, but the process of jailbreaking the phone can be troublesome though



I wouldn’t say that the process of jailbreaking itself is troublesome.  If you’re on the right version of iOS, it should be ridiculously easy to do.  The issue can occur if you do stupid stuff after you jailbreak and overload your system with tweaks.  A system-wide EQ likely won’t do too much, but as you add more it’ll take up more performance overhead.  The major issues with jailbreaking is the support for all OS versions (14.4 might be supported, but 14.5, 6, or 7 might not be for example) and the ability to update is lost.  For the latter this means lost security updates; however, in some instances jailbreak tweaks can close security holes before Apple releases a public patch (a certain SMS running assembler code bug from the past comes to mind), granted this is kind of more on the rare side (normally Apple closes it first and the jailbreak community never closes it).


----------



## zeinharis

tinyman392 said:


> I wouldn’t say that the process of jailbreaking itself is troublesome.  If you’re on the right version of iOS, it should be ridiculously easy to do.  *The issue can occur if you do stupid stuff after you jailbreak and overload your system with tweaks.*  A system-wide EQ likely won’t do too much, but as you add more it’ll take up more performance overhead.  The major issues with jailbreaking is the support for all OS versions (14.4 might be supported, but 14.5, 6, or 7 might not be for example) and the ability to update is lost.  For the latter this means lost security updates; however, in some instances jailbreak tweaks can close security holes before Apple releases a public patch (a certain SMS running assembler code bug from the past comes to mind), granted this is kind of more on the rare side (normally Apple closes it first and the jailbreak community never closes it).


That and security issues make me stop to jailbreaking my iPhones in the first place, mobile banking is the one that affected, it could be bypassed though, but still..

Uncover just released 6.0.0, up to iOS 14.3


----------



## tiagopinto

sofastreamer said:


> what is camt?



Cambridge Audio Melomania Touch. Sorry, I extended the acronym.

Anyway, I do need input from the experts here.


----------



## Canabuc

Seems all the main reviews and comparisons on JBL are Japanese. Here is another video where he chooses his overall top 5 from this past year.
5th place APP 6/10 for sound
4th place Nuarl N6 pro 8/10
3rd place Aviot TE-BD21J 10/10
2nd place Jabra 85t 7/10
1st JBL club pro + 10/10

Rankings also factor functionality and I think noise cancelling but the translation was bad via YouTube generated....


----------



## Canabuc (Feb 28, 2021)

https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=ja&tl=en&u=https://review.kakaku.com/review/K0001306847/&prev=search

More reviews translated.
wonder where I can get the nuarl magic + tws ear tips?

Her are some EQ that other reviewers posted

One theme is they all equalized it several db up from flat. They get much louder and more dynamic that way.


----------



## zeinharis

Hifiman TWS800 review

https://moonstarreviews.net/hifiman-tws800-review/


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## Enn Jott (Feb 28, 2021)

Canabuc said:


> https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=ja&tl=en&u=https://review.kakaku.com/review/K0001306847/&prev=search
> 
> More reviews translated.
> wonder where I can get the nuarl magic + tws ear tips?
> ...


There no real difference between raising the EQ in the app and the volume on the phone - why would there be? One could lower the settings a few db around to the dashed line and the result (soundwise) would be the same. On the JBLs I often felt like I needed to add volume as they don't get terribly loud really quick. They seem to need a bit of volume to sound better. Often I felt like I was listening a tad too loud though. Plus it added even more of the hoarse timbre I did not like.


----------



## tinyman392

Enn Jott said:


> There no real difference between raising the EQ in the app and the volume on the phone - why would there be? One could lower the settings a few db around to the dashed line and the result (soundwise) would be the same. On the JBLs I often felt like I needed to add volume as they don't get terribly loud really quick. They seem to need a bit of volume to sound better. Often I felt like I was listening a tad too loud though. Plus it added even more of the hoarse timbre I did not like.



Depends on how the EQ is implemented, but the EQ also happens after the signal is sent.  So pushing dB on an EQ could introduce distortion, clipping, etc. into the waveform being played out while pushing volume on the device wouldn’t have such issues.  

However, a lot of EQs actually get around this by doing an automatic gain match up so the they transform the EQ linearly so the maximum dB EQ’d is 0 and things are subtracted instead of added.  If this is done, then adding dB through an EQ (if all pushed the same amount) would actually do 0 change to the volume as a whole.  Some EQs may also do a partial auto gain setup where they limit peak gain to X dB.


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## Canabuc (Feb 28, 2021)

Enn Jott said:


> There no real difference between raising the EQ in the app and the volume on the phone - why would there be? One could lower the settings a few db around to the dashed line and the result (soundwise) would be the same. On the JBLs I often felt like I needed to add volume as they don't get terribly loud really quick. They seem to need a bit of volume to sound better. Often I felt like I was listening a tad too loud though. Plus it added even more of the hoarse timbre I did not like.



I'm not sure this is accurate in this case. 
I know for a fact if I use the stock EQ on my Samsung phone the volume get boyfriend querier but the frequency response changes but I had how it sound because I need to raise the volume much higher selfie the fact that I only changed a single bar on the equalizer.

The Fiil if I make small changes same thing happens but as soon as I go above about 3 notches from flat the sound improves.

Same with the JBL.
Not so much with the Sony and not with the Sennheiser.

These bugs have their own amplification within and probably to meet certain target battery numbers etc they are probably set at a default that is much lower than their true performance.
Thing of aPC in Windows set for battery saver or recommended mode instead of more performance mode.

At least to my ears listening to it at flat with a tiny adjustment here or there and reading the phone volume did not give me as pleasing a sound as keeping the phone volume lower and EQ ING as I have described earlier.


In any case I can only tell you what my ears hear. And it seems the Japanese review community at large seems to be rating this number one for sound over and over. Above the likes of the usual culprits we talk about here.
So my feeling is you have either not tried my EQ settings(or theirs) or you have a bad fit with the included ear tips leading to loss of the overall sound quality.


----------



## Enn Jott

Canabuc said:


> So my feeling is you have either not tried my EQ settings(or theirs) or you have a bad fit with the included ear tips leading to loss of the overall sound quality.



I would have - but I send them back yesterday. Shure would have been interesting and thanks for your insight. But still, there is only so much an EQ can do. And for my preferences it most likely would not have been enough, sadly.


----------



## Canabuc

zeinharis said:


> Hifiman TWS800 review
> 
> https://moonstarreviews.net/hifiman-tws800-review/


Nice review.... But I always take reviews where the company have the reviewer the product with a grain of salt.
Also for an audiophile earbuds they don't support APTX?
No transparency? ANC?
Not sure why these companies like them Grado, are skimping on features that are not only standard bit are being made available in earbuds costing 1/8 the price. 

What's next they going to add a wire? Just kidding I'm sure they sound great but I think these companies are feeling pressure to out a true wireless model to be competitive without understanding the market for these.
If you plan to use an Earth's or and about our while exercising then ambient mode at the least and likely ANC should be on the bud.
If you are going to listen at home during in a room alone why bother with true wireless?


----------



## Canabuc

Enn Jott said:


> I would have - but I send them back yesterday. Shure would have been interesting and thanks for your insight. But still, there is only so much an EQ can do. And for my preferences it most likely would not have been enough, sadly.


Well I know in my case EQ turned these from earbuds I also would have returned in an instant to ones that I feel are neck and neck with Sony and Sennheiser.

They also do some little things really well too like double tap to talk through mode which requests the ambient very high and lowers music volume. Makes it so you never have to remove the buds to hold a conversation.
Then regular ambient spent touch the music volume and only lasts in a lower amount of surrounding sound.

Any way in 6 months from now we will all be taking about the MTW2 the xm4, airpods pro plus, galaxy buds pro plus live....


----------



## FYLegend

tinyman392 said:


> They shouldn’t compress dynamic range too much unless they’re extremely low transfer rate (think like 128 kbps AAC).  Perceived EQ shift is likely more due to any of the following: 1) DSP from source, this can be the encoding process to AAC/APTX, 2) DSP from the headphone, this can be the decoding processing from AAC/APTX to the raw waveform, EQ, or ANC/transparency modes getting mixed in, 3) coloration/distortion caused by the DAC, 4) coloration/distortion caused by the amplifier.


This is what I found which probably explains the crackling issue I had with some AptX headphones. 


> Contrary to popular belief of aptX sound quality, in some cases it can produce worse audio quality than SBC with a standard 328k bitrate.
> 
> SBC dynamically allocates quantization bits for frequency bands, acting on a «bottom-to-top» basis. If the whole bitrate was used for the lower and middle frequencies, the upper frequencies are «cut off» (silenced).
> aptX quantizes frequency bands with the same number of bits constantly, which makes it a constant bitrate codec: 352 kbps for 44.1 kHz, 384 kbps for 48 kHz. It can't «transfer bits» to frequencies that need them most. Unlike SBC, aptX will not «cut» frequencies, but will add quantization noise to them, reducing the dynamic range of audio, and sometimes introducing crackles. SBC, on the contrary, «eats the details» — discards the quietest areas.
> On average, compared to SBC 328k, aptX makes less distortion in music with a wide frequency range, but on music with a narrow frequency range and a wide dynamic range SBC 328k sometimes wins


What I do wonder is why SBC does so badly for frequency sweeps. Maybe the dual channel/XQ mod can fix that but not much I can do on Windows 10...


----------



## TK33

bronco1015 said:


> I just got Android 11 on my V60 saturday Morning and i normally have to switch to 990 on my Aonic 50, but in this latest update, changing LDAC playback is freaking disabled! i know you mentioned not having to switch it but curious if yours is disabled as well? Edit, I had Aonic 50 on the brain, not on my head lol. Just realized what i'd written, i was actually wearing the Drop Panda at the time, about to switch to Aonic 50. long story short, this is only disabled while using the Panda. Not the Aonic 50, XM4 etc. weird.



Weird. I noticed it is grayed out when nothing is connected so maybe it does not detect your Pandas as being connected via LDAC? No issues with my V60 + Qudelix 5K via LDAC.  I can get into the developer options menu and see the different bitrate settings, although I dont need to change it to get 990.  Screenshots attached.


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## tinyman392 (Feb 28, 2021)

Canabuc said:


> Nice review.... But I always take reviews where the company have the reviewer the product with a grain of salt.
> Also for an audiophile earbuds they don't support APTX?
> No transparency? ANC?
> Not sure why these companies like them Grado, are skimping on features that are not only standard bit are being made available in earbuds costing 1/8 the price.
> ...



I actually agreed with a bit of the review. That being said, although I don’t get free samples anymore, I did in the past and you can definitely remain unbiased with your reviews; it also makes comparisons a lot easier to do as well as you’d be able to compare to 5 or 6 popular models without any real attachment to any of them.  One thing to keep in mind with reviewing something you paid for is the emotional attachment you have to said payment, so that tends to go either overstated or understated.  The issue with the sample’d review is that there might be a bias to be more positive.  That said, a lot of reviewers will simply not review a bad product.

That said, the TWS800 is a great sounding IEM that I can and would recommend if you don’t need the active isolation and find passive to be more than adequate (and for the most part it tends to be).  I wouldn’t recommend the TWS600 by any means since the midrange is a little harsh.  I made a post about the 800 earlier in this thread, but haven’t gotten around to writing something more in depth.  

As for why not have all the features?  Features cost money and R&D.  That cost has to be cut somewhere else somewhere on the headphone, with most of my experiences with BT and noise canceling headphones, that cost gets cut from the audio quality itself.  While ANC is nice to have, if you have a deeper-inserting IEM, it’s not necessary as the passive isolation can be more than adequate.

Dealing with why you’d want to listen with TWS or BT (in general) headphones at home, being untethered is nice, even when you’re home.


----------



## Canabuc

tinyman392 said:


> I actually agreed with a bit of the review. That being said, although I don’t get free samples anymore, I did in the past and you can definitely remain unbiased with your reviews; it also makes comparisons a lot easier to do as well as you’d be able to compare to 5 or 6 popular models without any real attachment to any of them.  One thing to keep in mind with reviewing something you paid for is the emotional attachment you have to said payment, so that tends to go either overstated or understated.  The issue with the sample’d review is that there might be a bias to be more positive.  That said, a lot of reviewers will simply not review a bad product.
> 
> That said, the TWS800 is a great sounding IEM that I can and would recommend if you don’t need the active isolation and find passive to be more than adequate (and for the most part it tends to be).  I wouldn’t recommend the TWS600 by any means since the midrange is a little harsh.  I made a post about the 800 earlier in this thread, but haven’t gotten around to writing something more in depth.
> 
> ...


Yes there are research costs etc. But these earbuds usually are already at the extreme price point. The materials are not really that much more expensive. There is a much bigger markup on the audiophile brands. Just look at the galaxy bud pro. Dual drivers ANC ambient wireless charging AKG tuning.... 200$ retail.

Grado,Hifiman etc 250 to 300 with no features. The material cost for those features is marginal. And heck there are 40$ earbud using qc3040 chips so which have APTX adaptive. There should be no excuse for a new release to not have this.

Just my 2 cents.
And yes untethered is nice but untethered makes removing an earbud to talk more difficult making ambient mode nice. ...


----------



## bladefd (Feb 28, 2021)

Canabuc said:


> Yes there are research costs etc. But these earbuds usually are already at the extreme price point. The materials are not really that much more expensive. There is a much bigger markup on the audiophile brands. Just look at the galaxy bud pro. Dual drivers ANC ambient wireless charging AKG tuning.... 200$ retail.
> 
> Grado,Hifiman etc 250 to 300 with no features. The material cost for those features is marginal. And heck there are 40$ earbud using qc3040 chips so which have APTX adaptive. There should be no excuse for a new release to not have this.
> 
> ...



They are of course maximizing their profit margin. Samsung can go with slimmer profit margin because earbuds is such a tiny portion of their business. They make huge profits in other areas that they can easily afford to keep profit margins small here & still make big bucks. Grado/Hifiman are pretty much a niche market and don't have much room to play with.

Samsung, on company name alone, will sell waaay more Galaxy bud plus than any of these niche lesser-known companies like Grado/HiFiMan. All of us here on head-fi know of Grado, but if you ask an average person, they will have no clue. They will instantly know of Samsung though. As I'm sure you know, demand/number of sales makes a huge difference when it comes to pricing.


----------



## tinyman392 (Feb 28, 2021)

Canabuc said:


> Yes there are research costs etc. But these earbuds usually are already at the extreme price point. The materials are not really that much more expensive. There is a much bigger markup on the audiophile brands. Just look at the galaxy bud pro. Dual drivers ANC ambient wireless charging AKG tuning.... 200$ retail.
> 
> Grado,Hifiman etc 250 to 300 with no features. The material cost for those features is marginal. And heck there are 40$ earbud using qc3040 chips so which have APTX adaptive. There should be no excuse for a new release to not have this.
> 
> ...



Materials is likely a very small portion of what makes the products price as the R&D would likely surpass the the material price (raw) for a given product.  There may be a markup for brand name, but HiFiMan isn’t exactly a “brand name,” to be honest, their known for cutting corners elsewhere to push sound quality.  I wouldn’t consider Galaxy an audiophile brand, just saying.  There is also more to the sound that a specific chip either.

As for ambient mode, it depends on application to be honest.  I rarely find myself using that function with my IEMs.  For the most part, the piped in sound just sounds like amplified outside noise which is very unnatural to my ear.

Everyone nowadays is chasing feature lists and spec sheets, we quickly forget that there is more than just the spec sheet, and each item on the spec sheet likely takes away from funding that can be put into the SQ without jacking up the price exorbitantly.

Edit: Realistically I feel like we have a new triangle: sound quality, features, price; choose 2.  Realistically it’s a balance of all 3 (or lack thereof) as you can’t have all of it.


----------



## Canabuc

bladefd said:


> They are of course maximizing their profit margin. Samsung can go with slimmer profit margin because earbuds is such a tiny portion of their business. They make huge profits in other areas that they can easily afford to keep profit margins small here & still make big bucks. Grado/Hifiman are pretty much a niche market and don't have much room to play with.
> 
> Samsung, on company name alone, will sell waaay more Galaxy bud plus than any of these niche lesser-known companies like Grado/HiFiMan. All of us here on head-fi know of Grado, but if you ask an average person, they will have no clue. They will instantly know of Samsung though. As I'm sure you know, demand/number of sales makes a huge difference when it comes to pricing.


Ok so then let me list other buds:
Kef mu3 
JBL club pro+
Jabra 85t
Master & Dynamic
Devialet Gemini
Sennheiser

Every one of those has ANC and ambient.
All of them are companies who are not Samsung like companies but are dedicated audio companies.

I will agree to disagree. I think they figure they could put anything out and the audiophile crowd will buy them and then buy the gen 2 when they add features that should have been in Gen 1.

Heck Sennheiser who arguably are among best sounding TWS out there out out a model with no features and was in sale for 100$!


----------



## bladefd (Feb 28, 2021)

Canabuc said:


> Ok so then let me list other buds:
> Kef mu3
> JBL club pro+
> Jabra 85t
> ...


That might be it too. It's all to maximize their profit margin. Companies manufacture things in China for the same reason. They don't have to follow environmental laws, can dump waste in rivers & open fields and use child labor while paying pennies a day often in horrendous conditions. It's all to increase their profit margin. I'm sure Samsung does it and Sennheiser and most of these companies.

Ultimately, you are right that for the money they are charging (250-300+), they can easily stick on anc/ambient mode. They are just being cheap to pocket that every little extra. Depends on the company business model/ownership doing penny-pinching I guess. I don't usually do business with companies like those (Well, HiFiMan is a fully Chinese company - I don't do business with Chinese companies or any authoritarian countries if I can help it).


----------



## SemiAudiophile

tinyman392 said:


> Everyone nowadays is chasing feature lists and spec sheets, we quickly forget that there is more than just the spec sheet, and each item on the spec sheet likely takes away from funding that can be put into the SQ without jacking up the price exorbitantly.
> 
> Edit: Realistically I feel like we have a new triangle: sound quality, features, price; choose 2.  Realistically it’s a balance of all 3 (or lack thereof) as you can’t have all of it.



I agree. Features like ANC, ambient mode, adjustable EQ usually involve a companion app. Which cuts into the cost of hiring developers, additional support, and maintenance. 

I personally don't care about those additional features and mainly interested in how they sound. So I'm not mad at Grado, HiFiMan for not including them. They are  a smaller brand compared to Sennheiser, Samsung, etc. So I can see why they didn't bother.


----------



## zeinharis

Canabuc said:


> Nice review.... But I always take reviews where the company have the reviewer the product with a grain of salt.
> Also for an audiophile earbuds they don't support APTX?
> No transparency? ANC?
> Not sure why these companies like them Grado, are skimping on features that are not only standard bit are being made available in earbuds costing 1/8 the price.
> ...


I’m guessing due to the amp that being used is taking up the battery life, so no APTX or other figures on this TWS cause it will drain the battery more, but who knows.


----------



## Canabuc (Feb 28, 2021)

tinyman392 said:


> Materials is likely a very small portion of what makes the products price as the R&D would likely surpass the the material price (raw) for a given product.  There may be a markup for brand name, but HiFiMan isn’t exactly a “brand name,” to be honest, their known for cutting corners elsewhere to push sound quality.  I wouldn’t consider Galaxy an audiophile brand, just saying.  There is also more to the sound that a specific chip either.
> 
> As for ambient mode, it depends on application to be honest.  I rarely find myself using that function with my IEMs.  For the most part, the piped in sound just sounds like amplified outside noise which is very unnatural to my ear.
> 
> ...


A wired bud doesn't need ambient indoor. You can just pull a bud out and the wires will keep it from falling to the ground during your conversation. A TWS bud that is not an option so either hold the bud you pulled out or use an ambient mode.


----------



## tinyman392 (Feb 28, 2021)

SemiAudiophile said:


> I agree. Features like ANC, ambient mode, adjustable EQ usually involve a companion app. Which cuts into the cost of hiring developers, additional support, and maintenance.
> 
> I personally don't care about those additional features and mainly interested in how they sound. So I'm not mad at Grado, HiFiMan for not including them. They are  a smaller brand compared to Sennheiser, Samsung, etc. So I can see why they didn't bother.


Agree completely.  To add to this, in order to do ANC, you need a sound engineer to actually build the ANC system so it works properly and at least adequately.  Just like with transparency modes, if the feature isn’t great or has quirks, it’s likely to not be used.  The same goes for an app too (I can’t get Senn’s app to connect to my IE80s BT, App Store reviews are riddled with people with connection issues).  I feel like a lot of people forget that there is more to the headphone than the sum of its parts; really, this applies to any sort of tech product (I can’t count the number of price breakdowns I’ve seen of smartphones).

In some cases a good UI also is important, even if it isn’t graphical.  Something like odd volume stepping can be extremely annoying; things like the V-Moda Crossfade Wireless 1, NAD HP70, and even the HiFiMan Ananda all have these weird things.  With the latter, the volume stepping can differ between phones which is ridiculously odd.  Or the use of touch controls...  Implemented well, it’s great.  Implemented poorly they would have been better off using standard buttons; for the most part, I feel like buttons are the better direction to go, most touch controls are finicky.  But touch control just ticks another check mark, right?

None of these costs to make any of these things work, let alone work well, come free.  They either inflate the price of the device or eat up the sound quality.



Canabuc said:


> A word bud doesn't need ambient indoor. You can just pull a bud out and the wires will keep it from falling to the ground during your conversation. A TWS bud that is not an option so either hold the bud you pulled out or use an ambient mode.


This is true, a wire does help from the bud dropping.  With most of my headphones that supported a transparency mode, I really never used them; in my experience most of them aren’t great.  Though at this point I may be spoiled by Apple’s implementations which feel like you’re not wearing headphones at all with it on.  I will admit it’s convenient to have when it’s around and works well.  But it’s not really a requirement for me; if I need to be aware of my surroundings I’m generally not wearing headphones to begin with. 

Edit: use of transparency indoors also depends on where.  I’d likely want to hear around me at the gym or grocery store (though I don’t use headphones in these scenarios), but if I’m on a bus or train I could probably care less.  Though microphonics always was the primary reason I hated headphones at the gym; good ANC systems can actually deal with some of that now.


----------



## Canabuc

SemiAudiophile said:


> I agree. Features like ANC, ambient mode, adjustable EQ usually involve a companion app. Which cuts into the cost of hiring developers, additional support, and maintenance.
> 
> I personally don't care about those additional features and mainly interested in how they sound. So I'm not mad at Grado, HiFiMan for not including them. They are  a smaller brand compared to Sennheiser, Samsung, etc. So I can see why they didn't bother.


You make it seem like a companion app costs the manufacturer so much money.
If soundcore can have an amazing app and Fiil can have one and jlab can have one in sure it didn't cost them an exorbitant amount.
And even with no app you can have all those features. Kef, & Master and Dynamic both more audiophile smaller brand have a premium tws  with ANC and ambient neither returns an app.

I value sound over all else. If I was in the market for Grado or Hifiman I would gladly pay an extra 25$or so dollars to have those extra features include once I'm making that investment. I'm sure just once they are spending that kind of money on a premium set of earbuds would have no issue doing so either.
Ambient especially costs nothing to add as the mics are already there in the ear bud. It's just the algorithm to pipe the noise in from outside.


----------



## Canabuc

zeinharis said:


> I’m guessing due to the amp that being used is taking up the battery life, so no APTX or other figures on this TWS cause it will drain the battery more, but who knows.


More likely they are not using a Qualcomm chip or they are not willing to pay the small licence fee to Qualcomm.


----------



## Canabuc (Feb 28, 2021)

tinyman392 said:


> Agree completely.  To add to this, in order to do ANC, you need a sound engineer to actually build the ANC system so it works properly and at least adequately.  Just like with transparency modes, if the feature isn’t great or has quirks, it’s likely to not be used.  The same goes for an app too (I can’t get Senn’s app to connect to my IE80s BT, App Store reviews are riddled with people with connection issues).  I feel like a lot of people forget that there is more to the headphone than the sum of its parts; really, this applies to any sort of tech product (I can’t count the number of price breakdowns I’ve seen of smartphones).
> 
> In some cases a good UI also is important, even if it isn’t graphical.  Something like odd volume stepping can be extremely annoying; things like the V-Moda Crossfade Wireless 1, NAD HP70, and even the HiFiMan Ananda all have these weird things.  With the latter, the volume stepping can differ between phones which is ridiculously odd.  Or the use of touch controls...  Implemented well, it’s great.  Implemented poorly they would have been better off using standard buttons; for the most part, I feel like buttons are the better direction to go, most touch controls are finicky.  But touch control just ticks another check mark, right?
> 
> ...


Have you used an earbud with ANC?
I am amazed at what the Sony XM3 can block out. I can literally lower the music 15% lower and still not hear the background noise for most things.
And Ambient for me is convenient. Working the dog, listening at home and my wife coming to ask me something it is so easy and convenient to activate ambient and not pull out the bud. Especially walking the dog where my hands aren't free.

As I say this I am listening to the cx400bt which have none of those features but just really nice sound that likely competes with the Hifiman and Grado. But cost me 100$. It has an app an EQ great touch controls that are will implemented. A smooth connection system to multiple devices without having to disconnect from the previous device. Oh and it has APTX.
But cost me 100$. Did I mention it has a 2 year warranty?

It can be done and much of the costs are one time costs because once you engineer the software the hear through feature and the ANC, you get to use them in more than one model and in future generations so the cost scales down.

I am now deciding on keeping the JBL with its equally great sound but with a more dynamic signature then the sennheisers or the Sony which sound nearly as good but have near class leading ANC, an app, a DSP to upscale lower quality recordings and cost me 155$.


----------



## tinyman392 (Feb 28, 2021)

Canabuc said:


> You make it seem like a companion app costs the manufacturer so much money.
> If soundcore can have an amazing app and Fiil can have one and jlab can have one in sure it didn't cost them an exorbitant amount.
> And even with no app you can have all those features. Kef, & Master and Dynamic both more audiophile smaller brand have a premium tws  with ANC and ambient neither returns an app.
> 
> ...



It’s not 25 dollars, that’s a gross underestimate of what it is.  Ignoring the app, which if a company wants to do does require you to hire at least 1 developer or hire a company to make an app, we do know a minimum threshold for these additional features looking at the Senn CX400 and MTW MSRPs: 200 vs 300 dollars.  This assumes all else is true (same driver, same software, same internal hardware, same app, etc.).  And keep in mind, this isn’t top of the line either, if you want that it’ll cost even more.  So a lower bound to add ANC and transparency is 100 dollars for the final MSRP.

I do agree that if they added the features without sacrificing the SQ, I likely would still pick it up and it would be nice.  But add the 100 dollars and we’d be looking at 360 dollars for the Grado and 400 for the HiFiMan to add transparency and ANC.  Developing an app would require similar labor prices to get someone to do it.  You also have the added long term support, so say another 50 bucks for that.  Now we have a 410 dollar Grado IEM and a 450 dollar HiFiMan IEM.  If you want top of the line ANC and transparency (Sony/Bose/Apple) levels, you’d need to add more money into that as well so it could balloon out to 460 for the Grado and 500 for the HiFiMan.  That 500 figure is roughly why the APM costs as much as it does.  But even looking at the 410 and 450 price points, I feel like you’d see a _lot_ of people complaining at price at this point (like some are complaining about missing features); they already did it with the APM (even on Head-fi).


----------



## tinyman392 (Feb 28, 2021)

Canabuc said:


> Have you used an earbud with ANC?
> I am amazed at what the Sony XM3 can block out. I can literally lower the music 15% lower and still not hear the background noise for most things.
> And Ambient for me is convenient. Working the dog, listening at home and my wife coming to ask me something it is so easy and convenient to activate ambient and not pull out the bud. Especially walking the dog where my hands aren't free.
> 
> ...



I thought I said that the AirPods transparency modes have spoiled me when comparing to others.  A good passive-isolating (25-35 dB is not uncommon) IEM can cause you to lower 15% too...  Signature also plays a role in how much you decrease volume as well.

Edit 1: You can outsource software development, but it still factors into the price of the headphone.  Then you have to support the software with updates as the OS updates and as people inevitably have issues with said software.

Edit 2: You unfortunately can’t use the same ANC software for new generations unless you keep the design of the headphone unchanged and don’t plan to improve the ANC (bad idea as well).  If you plan to do either of those, then the engineering of the ANC isn’t entirely a 1-time cost.  It gets cheaper with each generation is true, but still needs to be factored into cost.  5-10 years ago, adding BT would incur similar costs to the final headphone, today it is a small cost, but ANC tech is what’s eating that up now.


----------



## Canabuc

tinyman392 said:


> It’s not 25 dollars, that’s a gross underestimate of what it is.  Ignoring the app, which if a company wants to do does require you to hire at least 1 developer or hire a company to make an app, we do know a minimum threshold for these additional features looking at the Senn CX400 and MTW MSRPs: 200 vs 300 dollars.  This assumes all else is true (same driver, same software, same internal hardware, same app, etc.).  And keep in mind, this isn’t top of the line either, if you want that it’ll cost even more.  So a lower bound to add ANC and transparency is 100 dollars for the final MSRP.
> 
> I do agree that if they added the features without sacrificing the SQ, I likely would still pick it up and it would be nice.  But add the 100 dollars and we’d be looking at 360 dollars for the Grado and 400 for the HiFiMan to add transparency and ANC.  Developing an app would require similar labor prices to get someone to do it.  You also have the added long term support, so say another 50 bucks for that.  Now we have a 410 dollar Grado IEM and a 450 dollar HiFiMan IEM.  If you want top of the line ANC and transparency (Sony/Bose/Apple) levels, you’d need to add more money into that as well so it could balloon out to 460 for the Grado and 500 for the HiFiMan.  That 500 figure is roughly why the APM costs as much as it does.  But even looking at the 410 and 450 price points, I feel like you’d see a _lot_ of people complaining at price at this point (like some are complaining about missing features).


That 100$ retail also give you a case with more optimum materials an extra charge also sensors for play and pause as well as better materials on the touch pads as well. Also the actual mics for calls are higher quality. So split the difference and say 50$. If they sell 5000 of these that pays 250000$which can easily party for the costs and now you have the app for all future designs. You can then lower prices on future iterations because the R&D costs will be less each subsequent year to update existing designs.


----------



## tinyman392 (Mar 1, 2021)

Canabuc said:


> That 100$ retail also give you a case with more optimum materials an extra charge also sensors for play and pause as well as better materials on the touch pads as well. Also the actual mics for calls are higher quality. So split the difference and say 50$. If they sell 5000 of these that pays 250000$which can easily party for the costs and now you have the app for all future designs. You can then lower prices on future iterations because the R&D costs will be less each subsequent year to update existing designs.


Fine, drop 50 bucks from my estimates, we’re still looking at 360 and 400 dollar IEMs, and this is likely going dirt cheap in terms for pricing estimates.  I already likely underestimated the software prices.  This also acts as a huge risk for these smaller companies too, they don’t sell much volume (getting that R&D cost back could be tricky, especially if they go cheap and it doesn’t work so hot).

Edit: 360 and 400 or 410 and 450, especially on the latter (being Chi-fi known for cutting corners on stuff that isn’t audio), people will complain about paying that much...

Edit 2: if the ANC tech and app and all that are good, I wouldn’t mind paying the price.  However, if it were to be shoddy (which it very well could be) I’d rather them just put out a good product that works well with the feature set it already has than to pay 100 more bucks for features I likely won’t touch.


----------



## Canabuc

tinyman392 said:


> Fine, drop 50 bucks from my estimates, we’re still looking at 360 and 400 dollar IEMs, and this is likely going dirt cheap in terms for pricing estimates.  I already likely underestimated the software prices.  This also acts as a huge risk for these smaller companies too, they don’t sell much volume.


Except you are assuming what they are charging is not massively marked up. These earbuds are not made in the USA. They are made in the same Chinese factories just with the supplied design.
If sennheiser's cx400bt can go on sale at 100$ 5 months after release not as an 18 month old model it shows you how much a mark up there is as I am sure they are no losing money on an end that sold for 200$ last month.


----------



## tinyman392 (Mar 1, 2021)

Canabuc said:


> Except you are assuming what they are charging is not massively marked up. These earbuds are not made in the USA. They are made in the same Chinese factories just with the supplied design.
> If sennheiser's cx400bt can go on sale at 100$ 5 months after release not as an 18 month old model it shows you how much a mark up there is as I am sure they are no losing money on an end that sold for 200$ last month.


I’ve already cut the price of R&D ridiculously low, that will account for markup too.  At the end of the day, the 260 and 300 dollar IEMs will need at least 100 dollars to add ANC and transparency, and likely more to add an app.  Heck, even if you ignore the app pricing and just mash that into the 100 dollars to deal with the markup, the math ends up the same.  360 and 400.  This is a huge risk for these small companies.

Senn likely produces their products in the same Chinese factories.

Edit: Grado likely goes through similar measures to Senn when it comes to distribution and manufacture, they’re home is in the US.

Edit 2: I still feel like this estimate would still be lower than what would come out, but I’m playing best case scenario for price right now.

Edit 3: Chi-fi and Grado also can go on sale too...  Still need profit margins.


----------



## Canabuc

tinyman392 said:


> I’ve already cut the price of R&D ridiculously low, that will account for markup too.  At the end of the day, the 260 and 300 dollar IEMs will need at least 100 dollars to add ANC and transparency, and likely more to add an app.  Heck, even if you ignore the app pricing and just mash that into the 100 dollars to deal with the markup, the math ends up the same.  360 and 400.  This is a huge risk for these small companies.
> 
> Senn likely produces their products in the same Chinese factories.
> 
> ...


Well my guess is that most consumers even audiophile won't bother spending 300$ for an earbud without extra functionality. These aren't IEMS that can last for many years. These use a non replaceable battery which will last 2 to 3 years of used regularly and Bluetooth technology which in 3 years from now will be obsolete.

Even Apple who charges a lot for the airpods max have kept the APP at a reasonable for them price.


----------



## veraideishal (Mar 1, 2021)

Canabuc said:


> Ambient especially costs nothing to add as the mics are already there in the ear bud. It's just the algorithm to pipe the noise in from outside.


Fostex appeared to think so with their TM2, using the same single pair of microphones that they use for phone calls to implement their ambient mode. It’s basically unusable; too much hiss, everything sounds muffled, can’t hold a conversation with it enabled. Basically, only good enough to hear cars honking at you, and no more.

Proper ambient mode evidently requires more than a single pair of microphones, probably because your ears take in sound from a range of directions. For example, the APP have six microphones in total, three on each side (two externally in the stems, one inside each ear). So the cost of parts increases. I imagine Apple, and other manufacturers which offer ambient mode, had to figure out the optimum placement of those microphones. That’s R&D effort.

Of course, the Bluetooth chipset used in the earphones will then have to be able to process these six input channels as well. I don’t know Qualcomm’s Bluetooth chip lineup, but I’d wager those extra channels cost...well, extra.


----------



## FYLegend (Mar 1, 2021)

Canabuc said:


> Ambient especially costs nothing to add as the mics are already there in the ear bud. It's just the algorithm to pipe the noise in from outside.





veraideishal said:


> Fostex appeared to think so with their TM2, using the same single pair of microphones that they use for phone calls to implement their ambient mode. It’s basically unusable; too much hiss, everything sounds muffled, can’t hold a conversation with it enabled. Basically, only good enough to hear cars honking at you, and no more.
> 
> Proper ambient mode evidently requires more than a single pair of microphones, probably because your ears take in sound from a range of directions. For example, the APP have six microphones in total, three on each side (two externally in the stems, one inside each ear). So the cost of parts increases. I imagine Apple, and other manufacturers which offer ambient mode, had to figure out the optimum placement of those microphones. That’s R&D effort.
> 
> Of course, the Bluetooth chipset used in the earphones will then have to be able to process these six input channels as well. I don’t know Qualcomm’s Bluetooth chip lineup, but I’d wager those extra channels cost...well, extra.


I think the main issue with ambient mode is less the number of mics but rather mic quality and the need for the processor to constantly output audio close to realtime.
There's a few hearthough apps on Android using your smartphone mics, but they suffer from a terrible delay. Not sure how much of it is tied to the SoC but Jabees was one of the first budget brands with ambient hearthrough, and they use a Mediatek/Airoha chip as do most of the others on my list.

For me a good ambient mode should keep a relatively loud and constant volume. I also do the Piano Test - Everyone's usage is different but I should be able to play the piano and it should still sound reasonably clear with no volume fluctuations. I'd really like to see a "sidechain ducking" mode where louder sounds lower your music volume slightly. But again, everything is good AS AN OPTION because there are exceptions to usage.  Wondering if someone can elaborate on the WF-1000XM3 "voice focus" ambient mode, do they just let in mid frequencies or do they actually duck the volume?

These all have strengths and weaknesses but generally this is how I rank the ambient modes from best to worse:
Jabra Elite 65t > Galaxy Buds+ > 1More ANC ~ TaoTronics SoundLiberty 94 > Jabees Firefly Pro > Earfun Free Pro ~ Aufo M1

Jabra 65t - No volume fluctuations but a tad hollow/compressed sounding though. Perhaps this was due to my first foray being the Sony MDR-1000X, which had a very natural-sounding, warm ambient mode.  Could be _slightly _louder at times but very usable though this may also be due to the fact that the earbuds aren't particularly loud/I struggle to get a seal with the bass. Passes the Piano Test with flying colours. Wondering how the 75t works as some users said its ambient mode was worse than 65t.

Galaxy Buds+ - Very clean output with adjustable volume, but volume is adaptive and not constant. It will adjust to your surroundings and gradually become lower and lower. Fails the piano test because playing above a certain volume will cause the audio feed to continuously drop in volume, regardless of what level you set it as in the app. After this you need to re-insert the earbuds to reset the volume of the feed. A wind reduction algorithm was added in a later firmware update, which also causes the audio to pan left and right due to some phase inversion going on. Personally I dislike it and find it unsafe because the sound of passing cars has the wrong stereo image due to the panning.

1More ANC - Very clean ambient mode, but a tad faint. Music must be turned down considerably for me to converse with people. Passes the Piano Test with flying colours though. There is a slight high-pitched EMI sound regardless of which mode I'm in, but this seems unrelated to ambient mode. I also disliked having to cycle through ANC-OFF, ANC high, ANC low just to get to ambient mode.

TaoTronics 94 ambient mode quality is more or less on par with the 1More being very clean but my units have an irritating cricket-like EMI hiss on the left bud. I'm told that not all units have this issue but I've already received two units with this defect. Very loud sounds like a hand clap cause the ambient feed or a loud piano note to temporarily shut off. One odd quirk I noticed with ambient mode on some earbuds is that the microphones cut off when exposed to direct or harsh reflected sunlight.

Jabees Firefly Pro is fairly decent but has a bit of distortion/phasing. Piano doesn't sound very good because there is a slight buzzing artifact with every note. I believe this is down to phasing due to a _very _slight delay in the mic feed (I no longer have these buds to test). For conversations among other things, the ambient mode is rather subtle but complements well because passive isolation with the stock tips isn't good to begin with. One odd quirk I noticed with ambient mode on some earbuds is that the microphones cut off when exposed to direct or harsh reflected sunlight. The TaoTronics 94 and Jabees Firefly Pro both have this issue.

Earfun Free Pro ambient mode is a tad low in volume and distorts under rough sounds (clapping, rumbling, and fails the piano test miserably), but at least it doesn't hiss like the Aufo (it does emit a faint high pitched static though). Seems they are using a very basic microphone system, which works fairly well for ANC but not ambient or call quality. Also interesting how these are the only ANC product I've had where there is no difference between sound quality in various modes. Unless you have the other earbud in your pocket or with the case open, ambient mode can't be used with only a single earbud.

The Aufo is awful to say the least. It doesn't distort like the Earfun or chirp like a cricket like the TaoTronics, but it does hiss quite loudly. Though the high frequencies are clean, it has a noticeable delay which makes one finger snap sound like two. It also lowers your music volume when you are using ambient mode. While this is good as an option, I don't like this being the only setting. Also you need to quadruple-tap in order to activate ambient mode which doesn't always register well.


----------



## chinmie

i just bought the Sabbat Vooplay. been contemplating whether to buy this or the X12Ultra, but seeing that i already have two X12Pro, i decided with the Vooplay to try something a bit different. 

overall it's a nice purchase, it feels a slightly bit smaller on my ears than the X12, buttons are much more softer to press, and the overall sound is more "IEM-like" compared to the X12: mids and treble are airier, more separation. the X12 is more center focused and thicker mids. 

i also like that it only connect with one name to my devices and also signal is very good: cupping both earpiece with my hand and the signal keeps going strong, similar to my Vivo TWS Neo. 

here's a size comparison to the X12 in case anyone is interested:


----------



## zeinharis

Canabuc said:


> More likely they are not using a Qualcomm chip or they are not willing to pay the small licence fee to Qualcomm.


Good point, but I do believe (highly) Hifiman can pay the Qualcomm’s license or the RnD fee for TWS800, and I do believe also that Hifiman was pursuing sound quality over features.


----------



## SemiAudiophile (Mar 1, 2021)

Canabuc said:


> Except you are assuming what they are charging is not massively marked up. These earbuds are not made in the USA. They are made in the same Chinese factories just with the supplied design.
> If sennheiser's cx400bt can go on sale at 100$ 5 months after release not as an 18 month old model it shows you how much a mark up there is as I am sure they are no losing money on an end that sold for 200$ last month.


Well, I think it comes down to their target audience. Sennheiser, Sony, and the like have both audiophile and consumer audiences. So they would want to add features to please a wider audience. Whereas Grado, HiFiMan, etc. have a more niche market tailoring more toward audiophile based. So they would likely focus their efforts on sound quality. I'm sure they could've add an app and extra features and maybe they will down the line but it depends on the market.

Chi-Fi brands just don't have the luxury of marking up their products without an established audience. 

Side note: my guess is that Sennheiser is trying to sell off their consumer division due to recent reports. So maybe that's why the CX400 and others have been on sale recently?


----------



## Caipirina (Mar 1, 2021)

Lorelock said:


> Has anyone ever heard of and/or tried *Remax* products? If you have, what's your opinion on the sound signature?
> 
> I have one of their TWS and it seems to sound better than stuff like the FIILs.


Like 5 years ago I bought a sporty BT set with that brandname on it  ...  i am not sure if it was the sound, or the fit, or if it died ... but one of those put remax on my naughty list  (like Bludio)
Though I do remember that it came with ample eartips ...


----------



## Caipirina

TK33 said:


> I hear you.  I just don't ever plan on owning Apple devices anymore.  Last Apple devices I owned was the first iPad with Retina Display.  Have moved on since then.


Lol .. the good old 2012 retina iPad is the only one I ever bought and it is still working today ... just never figured out really what to use an iPad for ...


----------



## Caipirina

chinmie said:


> i just bought the Sabbat Vooplay. been contemplating whether to buy this or the X12Ultra, but seeing that i already have two X12Pro, i decided with the Vooplay to try something a bit different.
> 
> overall it's a nice purchase, it feels a slightly bit smaller on my ears than the X12, buttons are much more softer to press, and the overall sound is more "IEM-like" compared to the X12: mids and treble are airier, more separation. the X12 is more center focused and thicker mids.
> 
> ...


Does it come with wings? 
Still curious about them, but still no way of getting them, unless I am willing to pay 50$ for EMS / DHL ...


----------



## Canabuc (Mar 1, 2021)

veraideishal said:


> Fostex appeared to think so with their TM2, using the same single pair of microphones that they use for phone calls to implement their ambient mode. It’s basically unusable; too much hiss, everything sounds muffled, can’t hold a conversation with it enabled. Basically, only good enough to hear cars honking at you, and no more.
> 
> Proper ambient mode evidently requires more than a single pair of microphones, probably because your ears take in sound from a range of directions. For example, the APP have six microphones in total, three on each side (two externally in the stems, one inside each ear). So the cost of parts increases. I imagine Apple, and other manufacturers which offer ambient mode, had to figure out the optimum placement of those microphones. That’s R&D effort.
> 
> Of course, the Bluetooth chipset used in the earphones will then have to be able to process these six input channels as well. I don’t know Qualcomm’s Bluetooth chip lineup, but I’d wager those extra channels cost...well, extra.


My 60$fiil have 4 mics and perfectly passable ambient mode and good call quality. Most ear buds have 4 to 6 mics for calls these days.

Don't know why people are making excuses for these companies. Devialet at 300$ has all of these features.  Cambridge MT at least has ambient at 150$. Again these are not giant consumer brands.


----------



## bronco1015

tinyman392 said:


> I actually agreed with a bit of the review. That being said, although I don’t get free samples anymore, I did in the past and you can definitely remain unbiased with your reviews; it also makes comparisons a lot easier to do as well as you’d be able to compare to 5 or 6 popular models without any real attachment to any of them.  One thing to keep in mind with reviewing something you paid for is the emotional attachment you have to said payment, so that tends to go either overstated or understated.  The issue with the sample’d review is that there might be a bias to be more positive.  That said, a lot of reviewers will simply not review a bad product.
> 
> That said, the TWS800 is a great sounding IEM that I can and would recommend if you don’t need the active isolation and find passive to be more than adequate (and for the most part it tends to be).  I wouldn’t recommend the TWS600 by any means since the midrange is a little harsh.  I made a post about the 800 earlier in this thread, but haven’t gotten around to writing something more in depth.
> 
> ...


Haven't heard any of the HiFiMAN TWEs, but as someone who currently does get review samples your take definitely resonated with me. I find that it's really easy to point out flaws and strengths but if i'm back and forth on an aspect of sq for example, I stop wearing them and come back. If theres something i feel is poorly done i want to make sure i point it out.


----------



## Canabuc

bronco1015 said:


> Haven't heard any of the HiFiMAN TWEs, but as someone who currently does get review samples your take definitely resonated with me. I find that it's really easy to point out flaws and strengths but if i'm back and forth on an aspect of sq for example, I stop wearing them and come back. If theres something i feel is poorly done i want to make sure i point it out.


I am glad you guys are objective. But go on you tube and look at when the flag goes up to allow a new product to be reviewed and suddenly 30 glowing reviews by big names come out same day.

These are never critical or nearly never. They know if you say bad things about the product you stop getting your free products to review and then no YouTube monetization...


----------



## bronco1015

TK33 said:


> Weird. I noticed it is grayed out when nothing is connected so maybe it does not detect your Pandas as being connected via LDAC? No issues with my V60 + Qudelix 5K via LDAC.  I can get into the developer options menu and see the different bitrate settings, although I dont need to change it to get 990.  Screenshots attached.


So when i first got the Panda a few weeks ago, it would connect via APTX Adaptive. i couldn't go in to device settings and toggle the setting from priority on connection to sq. So I'd go in to dev options, switch to LDAC and music would stop for a second as the phone switched to LDAC, but it would never stay on LDAC when i'd power the headphones up again or after rebooting the device. Always comes back to APTX Adaptive. Well now in dev options, while wearing the Panda it won't even switch to LDAC, which i don't understand.


----------



## chinmie

Caipirina said:


> Does it come with wings?
> Still curious about them, but still no way of getting them, unless I am willing to pay 50$ for EMS / DHL ...



sadly it doesn't come with wings like the X12s in the package.. 
i do use this silicone sleeves with the Vooplay though (and also my X12s). it add extra grip and also accentuate the subbass too


----------



## bronco1015

Canabuc said:


> I am glad you guys are objective. But go on you tube and look at when the flag goes up to allow a new product to be reviewed and suddenly 30 glowing reviews by big names come out same day.
> 
> These are never critical or nearly never. They know if you say bad things about the product you stop getting your free products to review and then no YouTube monetization...


You're definitely right. There are some reviewers who either get specs wrong often, or fault a product even when it has something identical to what they praise on another product. For example, last year i saw a reviewer go on and on about how nice it was to use the Shure aonic 50 everywhere when wired, and they said it had a 3.5 MM connector on the headphone so any 3.5 MM cable would work just fine. That same reviewer then reviewed the Bose 700 ANC and dissed it for having a 2.5 MM connector on the headphone. Well, that same shure Aonic 50 also has a 2.5 MM connector on the headphone. i think plenty of people want to and try to be as objective as possible. but sadly, reviews of any kind can be like sifting through news stories. Theres a bit of truth in almost all the stories but they differ on so much as well.


----------



## Canabuc

bronco1015 said:


> You're definitely right. There are some reviewers who either get specs wrong often, or fault a product even when it has something identical to what they praise on another product. For example, last year i saw a reviewer go on and on about how nice it was to use the Shure aonic 50 everywhere when wired, and they said it had a 3.5 MM connector on the headphone so any 3.5 MM cable would work just fine. That same reviewer then reviewed the Bose 700 ANC and dissed it for having a 2.5 MM connector on the headphone. Well, that same shure Aonic 50 also has a 2.5 MM connector on the headphone. i think plenty of people want to and try to be as objective as possible. but sadly, reviews of any kind can be like sifting through news stories. Theres a bit of truth in almost all the stories but they differ on so much as well.


Even more concerning for me is the reviewers come out day 1 of product release and don't have a single critical thing to say about the product. They sound like walking advertisements.

I prefer the guys who review weeks later have had a chance to really use the product and will describe the warts as well as the positive aspects.


----------



## tiagopinto

tiagopinto said:


> I need your help. (Don’t we all...)
> 
> I’m using the CAMT. I love the sound (and after the FW upgrade to 1.2.3, most if not all of the reported issues are gone). While using them at home I can’t complain much for their price. They definitely do the job and well, for me.
> 
> ...



Canabuc, tinyman, bladefd, bronco, samandhi, clerk, enn... and all others I may be forgetting (sorry for that) who own or have owned the MT and the 85t and many other options, would you please give me some feedback on this?

(Your recent talk on cost vs features was very interesting)

Cheers and thanks.


----------



## tinyman392

Canabuc said:


> Even more concerning for me is the reviewers come out day 1 of product release and don't have a single critical thing to say about the product. They sound like walking advertisements.
> 
> I prefer the guys who review weeks later have had a chance to really use the product and will describe the warts as well as the positive aspects.


Keep in mind most press samples are sent to reviewers weeks in advanced. Some are also embargo’d from releasing anything for weeks as well. So by the time release happens, they may have already had a couple weeks to get their thoughts together and on paper.

It is sad to see no critiques whatsoever. The new toy effect occurs in many instances. Even on Head-fi.


----------



## 543293

Anyone looked into the Status Audio Between Pro? Sub-150 for an IEM-level sound, reviewers claim, but shame that's all it has to offer. (no extra modes, no ear-wings, no app)


----------



## bronco1015

Canabuc said:


> Even more concerning for me is the reviewers come out day 1 of product release and don't have a single critical thing to say about the product. They sound like walking advertisements.
> 
> I prefer the guys who review weeks later have had a chance to really use the product and will describe the warts as well as the positive aspects.


Like what we saw with the liberty air 2 Pro several weeks ago.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

tinyman392 said:


> Keep in mind most press samples are sent to reviewers weeks in advanced. Some are also embargo’d from releasing anything for weeks as well. So by the time release happens, they may have already had a couple weeks to get their thoughts together and on paper.
> 
> It is sad to see no critiques whatsoever. The new toy effect occurs in many instances. Even on Head-fi.


I've been part of review programs and can confirm this is how it happens.

It's also worth realizing that a lot of these tech youtubers run their stuff off a full production schedule, accounting for review embargos, so they can have those polished products finished a week or more in advance. They've formalized how they review so much that there's often glaring omissions in the final product. Unbox Therapy is notoriously bad at this, but certainly he's not the only one.

I bring it up, though, because these guys are your competition and can easily be knocked off by someone who's similarly charismatic, but can also back their stuff up with qualified statements. The only thing they have going for them, really, is production value and a following (that was probably bought out acquired via SEO). Most of us here could do a better job with nothing more than our smartphone camera. They're using megabuck studio setups and often multiples of them.



tiagopinto said:


> Canabuc, tinyman, bladefd, bronco, samandhi, clerk, enn... and all others I may be forgetting (sorry for that) who own or have owned the MT and the 85t and many other options, would you please give me some feedback on this?
> 
> (Your recent talk on cost vs features was very interesting)
> 
> Cheers and thanks.


They're passable, I guess. I bought them for call quality and features and they excel there. I don't reach for it when I want to listen to music unless I really need the ANC or the hearthrough.


Lorelock said:


> Anyone looked into the Status Audio Between Pro? Sub-150 for an IEM-level sound, reviewers claim, but shame that's all it has to offer. (no extra modes, no ear-wings, no app)


I ordered one a couple weeks ago, but they're not expected to arrive until April. Will have to hold opinion until then.


----------



## bronco1015 (Mar 1, 2021)

tiagopinto said:


> Canabuc, tinyman, bladefd, bronco, samandhi, clerk, enn... and all others I may be forgetting (sorry for that) who own or have owned the MT and the 85t and many other options, would you please give me some feedback on this?
> 
> (Your recent talk on cost vs features was very interesting)
> 
> Cheers and thanks.


I haven't pulled the triggor on the MT yet, still thinking about it. The 85T once they're in don't budge for me, but they also pick up wind noise like crazy. same with the AZ70, MTW2 and a host of cheaper TWEs i've tried with Ambient unfortunately.
Edit; let me also add the LG Tone free FN7, Razer Hammerhead Pro and anker life A2 NC to that list of recent TWEs i've tested ambient on.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

bronco1015 said:


> Like what we saw with the liberty air 2 Pro several weeks ago.


I own them and paid for my own set (eg not a review sample). They really are that good. They're not SQ champs, but they're certainly passable. The LA2Ps deserve every bit of praise they receive


----------



## clerkpalmer

bronco1015 said:


> So when i first got the Panda a few weeks ago, it would connect via APTX Adaptive. i couldn't go in to device settings and toggle the setting from priority on connection to sq. So I'd go in to dev options, switch to LDAC and music would stop for a second as the phone switched to LDAC, but it would never stay on LDAC when i'd power the headphones up again or after rebooting the device. Always comes back to APTX Adaptive. Well now in dev options, while wearing the Panda it won't even switch to LDAC, which i don't understand.


Try the Bluetooth settings not developer options. There should be a toggle next to panda to activate LDAC.


----------



## bronco1015

miserybeforethemusic said:


> I own them and paid for my own set (eg not a review sample). They really are that good. They're not SQ champs, but they're certainly passable. The LA2Ps deserve every bit of praise they receive


I don't doubt it, Anker makes some solid gear. But i saw so many glowing reviews not pointing out flaws. That's never a good sign.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

bronco1015 said:


> I don't doubt it, Anker makes some solid gear. But i saw so many glowing reviews not pointing out flaws. That's never a good sign.


It's ironic, because I bought them to one-up my son who got the Liberty Air 2. Reviews all dropped a day or two after they arrived. I'm this case, it was a nice validation, but I get where you're coming from: it's always the same reviewers, same brand, same glowing opinion that sounds like they read it directly off the brochure.

Anything for clicks, I guess. It used to be the main reason I wouldn't order the MTW2s. Now it's because they can't successfully deliver anything to me when I order it from them. PayPal claim is still ongoing. I'm not bitter


----------



## bronco1015

clerkpalmer said:


> Try the Bluetooth settings not developer options. There should be a toggle next to panda to activate LDAC.


Thanks for the suggestion, on LG phones it's a bit different unfortunately. In the settings for a specific device, if a headphone has LDAC or APTX-HD, then theres an option to use the better codec vs priority on connection, but it doesn't let you choose LDAC or APTX-HD specificly from this menu, if the headphone is capable of both. It weirdly lumps them together calling it "the Optimized  for sound quality, using the LDAC APTX-HD codec. So if you want to switch from LDAC to APTX-HD then you'd do that from dev options. otherwise when you toggle this setting it defaults to LDAC. Which is what i want in this case, but it's like the V60 isn't recognizing that the headphone is capable of LDAC. i've found some other reported issues online of people having this problem specificly with the V60 and other devices like the 5k.


----------



## TK33

Caipirina said:


> Lol .. the good old 2012 retina iPad is the only one I ever bought and it is still working today ... just never figured out really what to use an iPad for ...


Mine now serves as a BluOS controller/remote for my Node 2is


----------



## bronco1015

miserybeforethemusic said:


> It's ironic, because I bought them to one-up my son who got the Liberty Air 2. Reviews all dropped a day or two after they arrived. I'm this case, it was a nice validation, but I get where you're coming from: it's always the same reviewers, same brand, same glowing opinion that sounds like they read it directly off the brochure.
> 
> Anything for clicks, I guess. It used to be the main reason I wouldn't order the MTW2s. Now it's because they can't successfully deliver anything to me when I order it from them. PayPal claim is still ongoing. I'm not bitterr That sucks. Good luck with that claim.


----------



## tinyman392

miserybeforethemusic said:


> I've been part of review programs and can confirm this is how it happens.
> 
> It's also worth realizing that a lot of these tech youtubers run their stuff off a full production schedule, accounting for review embargos, so they can have those polished products finished a week or more in advance. They've formalized how they review so much that there's often glaring omissions in the final product. Unbox Therapy is notoriously bad at this, but certainly he's not the only one.
> 
> ...


One other note I guess is that these reviewers likely have a different target audience that may not be us.  I can write reviews fine (always have in the past), but have never been good at video work unfortunately; also requires a lot more time to record a good, well-productioned review than it is to write on too IMO.  I honestly wish I still had the time to just write reviews


----------



## mbk

Canabuc said:


> My 60$fiil have 4 mics and perfectly passable ambient mode and good call quality. Most ear buds have 4 to 6 mics for calls these days.
> 
> Don't know why people are making excuses for these companies. Devialet at 300$ has all of these features.  Cambridge MT at least has ambient at 150$. Again these are not giant consumer brands.



The counterargument would be that the Devialet Gemini has those features and also isn't currently selling their product because of technical difficulties. The Melomania Touch also has had a number of technical difficulties that caused a lot of people to abandon them. The big mainstream companies (Jabra, Sony, Sennheiser, Anker, Apple, etc) are really good at the technology part. Few instances of major technical problems. Might be smarter for the niche audiophile companies like Grado and Hifiman to focus on sound quality and get the basics right, especially since they're not targeting the mainstream audience. Bottom line is that there's a market for both strategies. I don't think it's fair to criticize the smaller audiophile companies for not doing things the big mainstream manufacturers are doing. If you need/want EQ, app, ANC, transparency then you have plenty of great choices. The worst thing a small audiophile company could do is make a great sounding earphone that doesn't work.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

mbk said:


> The counterargument would be that the Devialet Gemini has those features and also isn't currently selling their product because of technical difficulties. The Melomania Touch also has had a number of technical difficulties that caused a lot of people to abandon them. The big mainstream companies (Jabra, Sony, Sennheiser, Anker, Apple, etc) are really good at the technology part. Few instances of major technical problems. Might be smarter for the niche audiophile companies like Grado and Hifiman to focus on sound quality and get the basics right, especially since they're not targeting the mainstream audience. Bottom line is that there's a market for both strategies. I don't think it's fair to criticize the smaller audiophile companies for not doing things the big mainstream manufacturers are doing. If you need/want EQ, app, ANC, transparency then you have plenty of great choices. The worst thing a small audiophile company could do is make a great sounding earphone that doesn't work.


Those big companies are also excruciatingly risk-averse and have the extra funding to stay in development for considerably longer; something smaller companies like Devialet might not have in their arsenal. Granted, that's not a defense of Devialet. As far as I'm concerned, they're 0/2 on product stability.


----------



## TK33

bronco1015 said:


> So when i first got the Panda a few weeks ago, it would connect via APTX Adaptive. i couldn't go in to device settings and toggle the setting from priority on connection to sq. So I'd go in to dev options, switch to LDAC and music would stop for a second as the phone switched to LDAC, but it would never stay on LDAC when i'd power the headphones up again or after rebooting the device. Always comes back to APTX Adaptive. Well now in dev options, while wearing the Panda it won't even switch to LDAC, which i don't understand.



This is what Qudelix had responded to me with (I posted this in the Qudelix 5K thread) when I had this issue with my 5K.  I don't have the Pandas so not sure if that is possible for you but it seems to have to do with the way the V60 prioritizes codecs. I left aptX adaptive disabled on my 5K since I never use it.

"We finally got the LG V60 in our hands.

As we checked, it seems LG V60 remembers the connected device supported codec list.

Please follow the steps below.

5K App --> Codec --> Remove/Uncheck aptX Adaptive
Reboot 5K.
Remove/Forget the 5K out of V60 paired device list.
Repair 5K to the V60.

Then, you will see the LDAC HD Audio option in Bluetooth paired device setting."


----------



## bronco1015

TK33 said:


> This is what Qudelix had responded to me with (I posted this in the Qudelix 5K thread) when I had this issue with my 5K.  I don't have the Pandas so not sure if that is possible for you but it seems to have to do with the way the V60 prioritizes codecs. I left aptX adaptive disabled on my 5K since I never use it.
> 
> "We finally got the LG V60 in our hands.
> 
> ...


i'll see if drop has an app for the Panda i think that might be the only way to potentially follow these steps. thanks for sharing this.


----------



## Tommy C

bronco1015 said:


> I haven't pulled the triggor on the MT yet, still thinking about it. The 85T once they're in don't budge for me, but they also pick up wind noise like crazy. same with the AZ70, MTW2 and a host of cheaper TWEs i've tried with Ambient unfortunately.
> Edit; let me also add the LG Tone free FN7, Razer Hammerhead Pro and anker life A2 NC to that list of recent TWEs i've tested ambient on.


Unfortunately most TWS will pick up wind noise when ambient is on. 
I don’t think there is a way to get around this yet.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic (Mar 1, 2021)

tiagopinto said:


> Canabuc, tinyman, bladefd, bronco, samandhi, clerk, enn... and all others I may be forgetting (sorry for that) who own or have owned the MT and the 85t and many other options, would you please give me some feedback on this?
> 
> (Your recent talk on cost vs features was very interesting)
> 
> Cheers and thanks.


Since it's a workday, using the 85t paired to both my work laptop and a OnePlus 8T, which is playing a locally stored version of this:



Played through the MT, you get cavernous bass with a good seal. Those suckers can extend. The 85t can't. With the 85t, those bass kicks have no impact; they pop instead of punch. Additionally, treble is rolled off early and the upper mids are ducked, so everything's "pleasant" to listen to, but overall not that exciting. So yes, there's tradeoffs in SQ and I'm not sure if I would consider the 85t my "partner pair" for the MT unless it was the _features_ of the 85t that were my deciding factor. SQ is admirable, but not the key selling feature of the Jabras. They simply lack the same perceived stage space, impact, dynamics, and low-end extension of the MTs...BUT...they've also been rock-solid stable from Day 1 and everything works that should.

Would I recommend them? Only if you're an Android user (or you really need multi-device pairing that's not restricted to the Apple/Samsung ecosystem), honestly. If your main device will be an iPhone, just get the APPs. I think the APPs offer far more that's unique from the MT, even down to sound signature (and I'm really not a fan of Apple...it takes a lot to admit this). My guess is they patented the easy way to do a lot of the ANC/hearthrough/etc because they were one of the first to really mess with the TWS space. Everybody who's followed has had to either migrate legacy tech (like Sony with the XM or Bose with the QCs...for them, it was easy) or rely on open-source/third-party methods that aren't nearly as stable. I can't even knock the lack of reparability since most (if not all) of these pairs can't be user-serviced.

I've got one more high-buck TWS on its way, but this one's coming internationally. Think I'm going to use that pair as an opportunity to figure out if I sit and wait for the Status to arrive or keep going down the rabbit hole.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic (Mar 1, 2021)

I'll also add that the moment I shifted to listening to music on the computer via the 85t instead of listening via the phone, everything falls apart even more. Really hoping the addition of the Link 380 can correct that, but it's absolutely not a fair comparison between AAC on Android vs SBC over PC. Mind you, I listened via YouTube in both cases to make sure it wasn't just a product of streaming compression.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

The quest continues. Man, Sweetwater got these here fast. Love doing business with those guys. Onto the charger it goes...


----------



## erockg

miserybeforethemusic said:


> The quest continues. Man, Sweetwater got these here fast. Love doing business with those guys. Onto the charger it goes...


Curious what you think.  I got them from Best Buy.  The sound is really great with ANC off.  With ANC on, it takes a pretty big hit and the volume won't get as loud.  Still trying to find the perfect tips.  That said, the size and sound is very impressive.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

erockg said:


> Curious what you think.  I got them from Best Buy.  The sound is really great with ANC off.  With ANC on, it takes a pretty big hit and the volume won't get as loud.  Still trying to find the perfect tips.  That said, the size and sound is very impressive.


Listened for about 30 seconds before I realized they needed an update. From what I heard, even running flat on a little Sevendust, I was already impressed. These may be my rock-forward pair, or at least something that's rock-savvy, but has the added features like pass-through and ANC available that the UEs don't. Should be a fun afternoon/evening with them.


----------



## erockg (Mar 1, 2021)

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Listened for about 30 seconds before I realized they needed an update. From what I heard, even running flat on a little Sevendust, I was already impressed. These may be my rock-forward pair, or at least something that's rock-savvy, but has the added features like pass-through and ANC available that the UEs don't. Should be a fun afternoon/evening with them.


I EQ'd them and the bass drum has sick punch on the new Evergrey album.  I like these better than the UE Fits.  ANC is def weak, but honestly, not really needed on these.  It's an extra perk.


----------



## bladefd

miserybeforethemusic said:


> The quest continues. Man, Sweetwater got these here fast. Love doing business with those guys. Onto the charger it goes...


I would be most curious to see how you would compare them to the Melomania Touch since you have both! At least in sound quality department.


----------



## bronco1015

Tommy C said:


> Unfortunately most TWS will pick up wind noise when ambient is on.
> I don’t think there is a way to get around this yet.


i agree. I always check, but can't think of a product where wind hasn't overrun the mics. I think it will be a while before that might change but who knows.


----------



## PixelSquish

Just got my JBL Club Pro + as well and am playing around with them. A little EQ'ing and that sub-bass is definitely gorgeous. Gonna fiddle around quite a bit more, set up gestures the way I want them and then experiment with the EQ.


----------



## PixelSquish

When I turn ANC on the JBL Club Pro +, the volume gets too low. I rarely use ANC on my as the passive isolation is really good, and these might even be better, but that is a bummer.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic (Mar 1, 2021)

bladefd said:


> I would be most curious to see how you would compare them to the Melomania Touch since you have both! At least in sound quality department.


In stock form, they're night and day different. If I had nothing and was buying again, knowing what I know now, I'd probably get the JBL.

It's about 50% of the way towards the UE before you fiddle with EQ and I think most of the folks here will probably enjoy that tuning. Having that parametric is quite nice, but I'm really not a fan of having to draw my curve point-by-point. Not as easy to do with precision on a smartphone screen. Would much rather prefer text entry so I could just do it myself. Good news is there's software alternatives, so those who can't get past JBL's UI (potentially like me) can find solace in apps like Neutralizer (assuming you're on Android). If JBL could somehow roll out a CustomID sorta deal with the EQ where it runs you through a series of tones and you choose the ones you can hear, I think that'd really round out the package.

There's some other features I really like that weren't present on the Cambridge. For example, they support fast-pairing on Android (a la APP's pairing GUI on iOS/macOS). They allow full integration of either Google's assistant or Alexa to your buds for truly hands-free use, provided you can memorize all the commands. I'm a bit ashamed to admit I've been so opposed to voice assistants for the longest time just because I didn't have a use case for it and didn't like the idea of voluntarily putting a wiretap in my house, but...

Man if Google's integration with the JBLs hasn't been so smooth to work with. I'll admit: it's a little frustrating that you can only set specific control schemes to the Left or Right earbuds instead of having more control over the individual controls. Once you start using apps like UAPP, volume control from the buds goes out the window anyway. Using the voice assistant to adjust the volume just works. Until I build a better understanding of what voice commands I'm supposed to use, I'll start figuring out how hands-free these things can really get, but I can't do anything more complex than open UAPP and I'd really like to learn how to have it open, select an album, _and_ play...if that's possible.

Another thing of note: The JBL use what are called Smart Audio Modes, which somewhat remind me of the "High Amplification" mode or whatever they're called on the CA MTs. Similar to the MT, a reboot is required after each selection and you have 3 choices:

Normal - "Giving you a stable connection, performing the best in congested areas."
In my testing, this produced a 16/44 AAC stream

Audio Mode - "Giving you the best audio quality, best for listening to music."
Another 16/44 AAC stream

Video Mode - "Improving lip-sync performance, best for watching video"
16/44 AAC

Man, I'll bet the iCrowd feels taken care of, at least. If I had to guess, JBL ended up with 3 separate sets of code and each one was optimized for the 3 elements mentioned above. Not a bad idea, considering you can control how all of the processes react/operate and not just the audio stream. Pretty clever. That being said, none of them make any sort of immediately noticeable difference to me. I'll have to reserve judgment for long-term usage.



PixelSquish said:


> When I turn ANC on the JBL Club Pro +, the volume gets too low. I rarely use ANC on my as the passive isolation is really good, and these might even be better, but that is a bummer.


I can confirm this happens, too. Here's to hoping JBL is relatively quick with rolling out an app update/firmware fix for it. I do find the pass-through mode quite usable, though, and I do appreciate that.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

Well now I don't know if I _want _to touch the EQ on these JBLs...

I did swap out the stock Medium tips for some Large SpinFit CP360 and they immediately came out. There's a comical gap between the ear and the shell of the IEM when I tried to use them and the IEM shell just ended up flopping around the inside of my ear for a minute or so before I called it quits. Doesn't insert deep enough to work. Check.

Tried Medium CP360s next and the seal is fantastic; I think anybody who's having issues getting these things to stay in place should consider going with that combo. You still get more than enough meat in the bottom-end and the FR is _mostly_ unaltered over the stock tips. I do hear, however, some sort of grain on the top-end that's more noticeable than with the stock tips. Not sure if that's because you can just hear the driver more or there's some channeling with the bore (the JBLs seem to have a wider bore than my other sets) that's causing some weird stuff to happen. Easiest way to catch this is to listen to cymbal hits. Do they crash, splash, or tizz? In the SpinFits' case, they were a little tizzy. They definitely splash on stock tips. Maybe someone else can confirm this on their own.

So I ended up putting on the stock Large tips and think I've found a nice middle. These things are locked in enough to survive some pretty spirited head-banging, getting a seal on insertion is pretty consistent now, and I don't hear any of that top-end grain. I also don't hear any regions where I'd want to EQ in a little improvement.

Oh and I forgot to mention: the JBLs are very, very light. I thought the large form factor might be a problem, but I can feel the Jabras in my ears (~30 min) sooner than I can feel the JBL (~45 min) so far. UE are still the reigning champ at (~never).


----------



## Canabuc

tiagopinto said:


> Canabuc, tinyman, bladefd, bronco, samandhi, clerk, enn... and all others I may be forgetting (sorry for that) who own or have owned the MT and the 85t and many other options, would you please give me some feedback on this?
> 
> (Your recent talk on cost vs features was very interesting)
> 
> Cheers and thanks.


Have owned the 85t. They are asking  the best if not the best all around ear bud.
The whole feature set is on the buds.  Button control means gloves or hat are not problems.
Multi point connection though for me was glitchy on my iPad with my Samsung phone.
Sound overall is good but to me it was still a step behind the class leaders like Sennheiser Sony JBL...
ANC is great battery case size and Qi charging all great. App great too.
Winter here so didn't really use them out doors. They never fell out of my ears but the shallow fit made them feel that they weren't as secure and I was always adjusting them.


----------



## Canabuc

Lorelock said:


> Anyone looked into the Status Audio Between Pro? Sub-150 for an IEM-level sound, reviewers claim, but shame that's all it has to offer. (no extra modes, no ear-wings, no app)


But this illustrates my point. Hear is an audiophile bud and they are charging 99$with no extra features. Hifiman and Grado are charging 150 to 200$more.


----------



## Canabuc

bronco1015 said:


> Like what we saw with the liberty air 2 Pro several weeks ago.


Exactly. El Jefe, Digital Slang, Gamesky... They are always careful with their wording.

Prefer guys like MRKWD. He will will call it something if it is bad...


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

Canabuc said:


> Exactly. El Jefe, Digital Slang, Gamesky... They are always careful with their wording.


El Jefe's mentioned in his own livestream that they're all friends. I don't think they make any secrets about working together. I also don't think that's as much the problem as you make it out to be. These guys follow a script and don't deviate too far from it because that's what their audience expects and they play for their audience.


----------



## Canabuc

miserybeforethemusic said:


> I own them and paid for my own set (eg not a review sample). They really are that good. They're not SQ champs, but they're certainly passable. The LA2Ps deserve every bit of praise they receive


Except none of those reviewers until now commented on the meager battery life with ANC. Like 3 and half hours. None complain of the controls that are lacking....


----------



## Canabuc

tinyman392 said:


> One other note I guess is that these reviewers likely have a different target audience that may not be us.  I can write reviews fine (always have in the past), but have never been good at video work unfortunately; also requires a lot more time to record a good, well-productioned review than it is to write on too IMO.  I honestly wish I still had the time to just write reviews


Every review sound the same. Deep punchy bass, clear mids and crispy treble. Listen to digital slang. Every review is the same. 
They are all afraid to lend a criticism like poor battery life or lousy ANC. They will always say it's good but not class leading....


----------



## Canabuc

Tommy C said:


> Unfortunately most TWS will pick up wind noise when ambient is on.
> I don’t think there is a way to get around this yet.


Not that I have tried it yet but the Sony have a wind setting. Also Samsung has put a physical wind filter in their new pro. I lived that bud but couldn't get a good comfortable possible seal in my right ear. Others have had better luck.


----------



## Canabuc

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Since it's a workday, using the 85t paired to both my work laptop and a OnePlus 8T, which is playing a locally stored version of this:
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Which one?


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

Canabuc said:


> Which one?


Gotta build at least a little suspense here...


----------



## tinyman392

Canabuc said:


> Every review sound the same. Deep punchy bass, clear mids and crispy treble. Listen to digital slang. Every review is the same.
> They are all afraid to lend a criticism like poor battery life or lousy ANC. They will always say it's good but not class leading....



That typically describes a V-shape pretty well.  This popular signature tends to encompass the majority of the TWS headphones on the market right now.


----------



## Canabuc

erockg said:


> Curious what you think.  I got them from Best Buy.  The sound is really great with ANC off.  With ANC on, it takes a pretty big hit and the volume won't get as loud.  Still trying to find the perfect tips.  That said, the size and sound is very impressive.



My one criticism with these and why I might not keep them over the Sennheiser Sony combo is that the ANC for me seems to do nothing or near nothing. Maybe I need to try foam tips to tighten the seal.

The Sennheisers really sound great and if I am not using ANC anyway the cx400bt were a steak at 200$.
The sound is near identical to the MTW2 once the bass is bumped up 2db.
Unlike the MTW2 they don't have this terrible robotic interference that Congress and goes on calls. Seems many have complained about this since the 4.13 firmware update. My return window in the MTW2 is another week so if not fixed they are just not usable for calls. Sisterly that update also made the ANC worse.

Anyone else have this issue? One option is to exchange and not update firmware until a newer firmware comes.


----------



## Canabuc

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Listened for about 30 seconds before I realized they needed an update. From what I heard, even running flat on a little Sevendust, I was already impressed. These may be my rock-forward pair, or at least something that's rock-savvy, but has the added features like pass-through and ANC available that the UEs don't. Should be a fun afternoon/evening with them.


Definitely EQ them with a W signature and about 4Db at the highest ends.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

Canabuc said:


> Every review sound the same. Deep punchy bass, clear mids and crispy treble. Listen to digital slang. Every review is the same.
> They are all afraid to lend a criticism like poor battery life or lousy ANC. They will always say it's good but not class leading....


I know it's frustrating, but you have to remember you're not their target audience. The only thing you have in common with their audience is you're looking at this one particular tws. Your standards and demands do not match theirs.

That being said, they're leaving the path wide open for you to go in and take their place. Why haven't you started?


Canabuc said:


> My one criticism with these and why I might not keep them over the Sennheiser Sony combo is that the ANC for me seems to do nothing or near nothing. Maybe I need to try foam tips to tighten the seal.
> 
> The Sennheisers really sound great and if I am not using ANC anyway the cx400bt were a steak at 200$.
> The sound is near identical to the MTW2 once the bass is bumped up 2db.
> ...


I've only tested indoors so far, but really don't expect much from the ANC here, much like I didn't with the Soundcores. They're still respectable, but have nothing in comparison to Jabra's or Apple's implementation.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

Canabuc said:


> Definitely EQ them with a W signature and about 4Db at the highest ends.


That sounds crazy extreme. Keep in mind I'm perfectly fine with a neutral signature. I prefer these with EQ off completely as of right now.


----------



## Canabuc

bronco1015 said:


> i agree. I always check, but can't think of a product where wind hasn't overrun the mics. I think it will be a while before that might change but who knows.


Another option is a head band. It acts as a wind filter. At least my winter hat works that way.


----------



## Canabuc

PixelSquish said:


> When I turn ANC on the JBL Club Pro +, the volume gets too low. I rarely use ANC on my as the passive isolation is really good, and these might even be better, but that is a bummer.


Haven't notched that. Did you update the firmware? The buds picture has a little down arrow in Orange....


----------



## Canabuc

miserybeforethemusic said:


> In stock form, they're night and day different. If I had nothing and was buying again, knowing what I know now, I'd probably get the JBL.
> 
> It's about 50% of the way towards the UE before you fiddle with EQ and I think most of the folks here will probably enjoy that tuning. Having that parametric is quite nice, but I'm really not a fan of having to draw my curve point-by-point. Not as easy to do with precision on a smartphone screen. Would much rather prefer text entry so I could just do it myself. Good news is there's software alternatives, so those who can't get past JBL's UI (potentially like me) can find solace in apps like Neutralizer (assuming you're on Android). If JBL could somehow roll out a CustomID sorta deal with the EQ where it runs you through a series of tones and you choose the ones you can hear, I think that'd really round out the package.
> 
> ...



I live the talk through mode. I can double tap the bud and ambient how very loud and music gets very low so easy to hold a conversation.
Not sure what the active toggle does for the ANC as I discern no difference.
These do have 3mics or side with feed forward and back so could easily strengthen the ANC as hardware is there.

Also interesting if you only have one bud in ancient mode is active too.

I haven't tried the full Google assistant on it. Does it work hands free or do you still need to press the button. Because you can still have the assistant in not dedicated mode seeing with the ANC setting in the buds.

Also you can go into Google assistant and set your default music app. Then to can say to Google to play an artist etc and it will launch your default player to do so.


----------



## Canabuc

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Well now I don't know if I _want _to touch the EQ on these JBLs...
> 
> I did swap out the stock Medium tips for some Large SpinFit CP360 and they immediately came out. There's a comical gap between the ear and the shell of the IEM when I tried to use them and the IEM shell just ended up flopping around the inside of my ear for a minute or so before I called it quits. Doesn't insert deep enough to work. Check.
> 
> ...


I am using tips from my Liberty 2pro. If the air 2 pro tips are the same give them a try would love your opinion. I feel they kick in better than the stock tips. My right ear has one big a$$ hole. Seems the large stock tip still too small for me.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

Canabuc said:


> Does it work hands free or do you still need to press the button. Because you can still have the assistant in not dedicated mode seeing with the ANC setting in the buds.


Completely voice-activated once it's set up. One of the 5 million pamphlets that were included have instructions on setting it up with either Alexa or Google Assistant, but I was auto-prompted through it.

Without having personally owned the Pixel Buds, I can only speculate that the experience is somewhat similar. I didn't need to push any buttons, though, so that's a plus.


Canabuc said:


> I am using tips from my Liberty 2pro. If the air 2 pro tips are the same give them a try would love your opinion. I feel they kick in better than the stock tips. My right ear has one big a$$ hole. Seems the large stock tip still too small for me.


If ever my children find the box, I'll gladly pull a pair of LA2P tips and give it a shot.


----------



## Canabuc

miserybeforethemusic said:


> El Jefe's mentioned in his own livestream that they're all friends. I don't think they make any secrets about working together. I also don't think that's as much the problem as you make it out to be. These guys follow a script and don't deviate too far from it because that's what their audience expects and they play for their audience.



I guess I want a review that isn't just as feature description. Tell me what was good what was bad. Why this isn't worth the money....
I have yet to hear any of those guy say that a bud was not worth the retail price.


----------



## Canabuc

tinyman392 said:


> That typically describes a V-shape pretty well.  This popular signature tends to encompass the majority of the TWS headphones on the market right now.


Except that never say the bass is too boomy and found the mids. The treble is never harsh or fatiguing. 
Every bud sound great so how can I the consumer decide which one is better.


----------



## Canabuc

miserybeforethemusic said:


> I know it's frustrating, but you have to remember you're not their target audience. The only thing you have in common with their audience is you're looking at this one particular tws. Your standards and demands do not match theirs.
> 
> That being said, they're leaving the path wide open for you to go in and take their place. Why haven't you started?
> 
> I've only tested indoors so far, but really don't expect much from the ANC here, much like I didn't with the Soundcores. They're still respectable, but have nothing in comparison to Jabra's or Apple's implementation.



Would love too steep in and reviews but Truth is these guys have production teams. My reviews would not have the Polish and production quality these guys do. They make a living from YouTube.
DHRME now these 2 guys are fun. And they have no problem making fun of companies. Boy did they joke about the Bose QC buds case....


----------



## Canabuc

miserybeforethemusic said:


> That sounds crazy extreme. Keep in mind I'm perfectly fine with a neutral signature. I prefer these with EQ off completely as of right now.


It sounds extreme but it is free to try. They deem to have a fair bit of head room. I try to balance them so that their volume and the Sony are about the same loudness.


----------



## Canabuc

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Completely voice-activated once it's set up. One of the 5 million pamphlets that were included have instructions on setting it up with either Alexa or Google Assistant, but I was auto-prompted through it.
> 
> Without having personally owned the Pixel Buds, I can only speculate that the experience is somewhat similar. I didn't need to push any buttons, though, so that's a plus.
> 
> If ever my children find the box, I'll gladly pull a pair of LA2P tips and give it a shot.



I tried it but it still seems i need to long press to activate. How do you do it hands free?


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

Canabuc said:


> I guess I want a review that isn't just as feature description. Tell me what was good what was bad. Why this isn't worth the money....
> I have yet to hear any of those guy say that a bud was not worth the retail price.


I've heard it a couple times, but can't pinpoint you to specific videos. That being said, I really only check those videos out for a features bulletin because even I'm capable of messing up what I'm hearing. These guys know how to read spec sheets and find the most dynamic pair they can. Anything beyond that tends to be out of their league. What they do cover is 100% in-league with most of their subscribers.

To date, I haven't found a single YT reviewer who I haven't disagreed wildly with in terms of sound impressions. I've just taken that as a hint to completely disregard them.


Canabuc said:


> Would love too steep in and reviews but Truth is these guys have production teams. My reviews would not have the Polish and production quality these guys do. They make a living from YouTube.
> DHRME now these 2 guys are fun. And they have no problem making fun of companies. Boy did they joke about the Bose QC buds case....


So buy everything you review out of your own pocket and don't worry about the feedback. You've got to remember there's at least one other _you_ out there who's looking for the same material and probably don't care if it's not polished to the nines. Is Flossy Carter super-polished? Heck no. He's still one of the more entertaining reviewers out there.

Alternatively, you could look at the following other sources for reviews. They just may not be in video format and it's not an exhaustive list:
www.headphonesty.com
www.headfonia.com
www.headfonics.com

The more you learn about guys like YouTube, the more you realize that the subscriber count is completely meaningless; that it's an entertainment platform first and foremost. Being a valuable source of information was never part of the job description.


----------



## PixelSquish

Been listening to the JBL Club Pro Plus for a while now plus threw on the MTW2's for some comparisons. The Club Pro Plus sound real good. A little EQ and they sound as good as the MTW2's to my average ears. I feel like they have just a tad more sub-bass presence but when I throw on the MTW2's it gets really hard to tell if that is the case at all. Both a lot of fun to listen to.

With my Google Pixel 5 I have to keep both the Senns and JBL's at 90-100% volume to keep me happy. I like my music loud. I wish both had more headroom. I have absolute volume turned off in developer options.

The JBL case is so small it's impressive. Wish it had the fabric on the outside like the Senn case, just easier to grab onto and less slippery, but the size is great.

It's somewhat easier to use the touch controls on the Senns as they have that one big circular platform to touch, whereas the JBL surface area is smaller and has a more angular design around the touchable area.

Both isolate well passively. Both are very easy to insert and stay in your ear well.

Gesture customization is superior on the MTW2's, but the JBL is still good.

The bummer is that the JBL's ANC lowers the volume by a noticeable chunk. I rarely use ANC so this is not a dealbreaker but I do certainly hope this can be fixed via firmware. This was both before and after the firmware update to 4.5 and then after a soft reset. I chatted with JBL support and they had no real solution.


----------



## Canabuc

PixelSquish said:


> Been listening to the JBL Club Pro Plus for a while now plus threw on the MTW2's for some comparisons. The Club Pro Plus sound real good. A little EQ and they sound as good as the MTW2's to my average ears. I feel like they have just a tad more sub-bass presence but when I throw on the MTW2's it gets really hard to tell if that is the case at all. Both a lot of fun to listen to.
> 
> With my Google Pixel 5 I have to keep both the Senns and JBL's at 90-100% volume to keep me happy. I like my music loud. I wish both had more headroom. I have absolute volume turned off in developer options.
> 
> ...


I like their sound alot as well as the Sony and the Sennheiser.
The MTW2 and cx400 have Avery different signature. More spacious a bit warmer but with amazing clear treble.

The JBL really get lower in the bass range( yet with good texture ) than the Sennheiser's, have good clarity in the mids have nice highs and a very energetic sound compared to a bit more laid back sound of Senheiser. 
I love both in different waysFor some songs I prefer JBL or Sony and others the sennheisers.

As for the Sony they might not be the newest kid on the block but they still have great sound and ANC. With Liberty 2 pro tips I have good secure fit and comfort.
Battery life is great too.

Sound signature very similar to JBL. Difference is Sony with less defined bass bit with more detailed treble.


----------



## bladefd (Mar 1, 2021)

miserybeforethemusic said:


> In stock form, they're night and day different. If I had nothing and was buying again, knowing what I know now, I'd probably get the JBL.
> 
> It's about 50% of the way towards the UE before you fiddle with EQ and I think most of the folks here will probably enjoy that tuning. Having that parametric is quite nice, but I'm really not a fan of having to draw my curve point-by-point. Not as easy to do with precision on a smartphone screen. Would much rather prefer text entry so I could just do it myself. Good news is there's software alternatives, so those who can't get past JBL's UI (potentially like me) can find solace in apps like Neutralizer (assuming you're on Android). If JBL could somehow roll out a CustomID sorta deal with the EQ where it runs you through a series of tones and you choose the ones you can hear, I think that'd really round out the package.
> 
> ...


Features sound good, but I would probably be unlikely to use most of them. I don't even have Google assistant enabled on my phone (would have to manually open it) lol.

I just don't know if the JBL would be worth $50 more for me if I don't plan on using ANC or some of the extra features. I occasionally use hearthrough mode with my MT, but that's pretty much it. MT has aptx and 2yr warranty.


Edit: Melomania has 2yr warranty in UK only not USA.


----------



## Canabuc

I





bladefd said:


> Features sound good, but I would probably be unlikely to use most of them. I don't even have Google assistant enabled on my phone (would have to manually open it) lol.
> 
> I just don't know if the JBL would be worth $50 more for me if I don't plan on using ANC or some of the extra features. I occasionally use hearthrough mode with my MT, but that's pretty much it. MT has aptx and 2yr warranty.
> 
> ...


JBL often goes on sale. Got mine for about 170$USD. They are fighting it out with the Sony. If they had Sony's ANC it would be a no brainer. Winner if they can improve it with an update.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

bladefd said:


> Features sound good, but I would probably be unlikely to use most of them. I don't even have Google assistant enabled on my phone (would have to manually open it) lol.
> 
> I just don't know if the JBL would be worth $50 more for me if I don't plan on using ANC or some of the extra features. I occasionally use hearthrough mode with my MT, but that's pretty much it. MT has aptx and 2yr warranty.
> 
> ...


In your case, I wouldn't since you already have the MT and you seem to be pleased enough with its hearthrough to meet your needs. Then again, maybe you enjoy tweaking a little more than I do and don't mind spending some time with the app. The driver JBL chose is pretty great, but I think I'm leaning a little more towards Cambridge's implementation.


----------



## Canabuc

miserybeforethemusic said:


> In your case, I wouldn't since you already have the MT and you seem to be pleased enough with its hearthrough to meet your needs. Then again, maybe you enjoy tweaking a little more than I do and don't mind spending some time with the app. The driver JBL chose is pretty great, but I think I'm leaning a little more towards Cambridge's implementation.


How did you manage to get Google assistant to work hands free?


----------



## Canabuc

Did some testing with the ANC on the JBL. Only when it turns on does it drop the volume to play the beer sound infringing you is active but 1 second later it fits back to normal.


----------



## Canabuc

Now this had some nice low bass texture punch and detail in the JBL!


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

Canabuc said:


> How did you manage to get Google assistant to work hands free?


I honestly have no idea. Something popped up on my OnePlus 8T asking me if I wanted to sync with Google or something like that. I just said yes and everything was set up from there


----------



## Canabuc

This shows off the dynamism of the JBL.

My EQ


----------



## Canabuc

miserybeforethemusic said:


> I honestly have no idea. Something popped up on my OnePlus 8T asking me if I wanted to sync with Google or something like that. I just said yes and everything was set up from there


I did all that too but it still requires me to press the earbud.
Hands free only works if I say hey Google to my phone but if I'm in another room the buds aren't on always listening. I think the pixel buds do that. APP does it and I thing buds pro do it for Bixby.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

Canabuc said:


> I did all that too but it still requires me to press the earbud.
> Hands free only works if I say hey Google to my phone but if I'm in another room the buds aren't on always listening. I think the pixel buds do that. APP does it and I thing buds pro do it for Bixby.


Might be another case of them saving the best stuff for themselves, then. Thought my buds were picking up the wake word, but maybe not.


----------



## FYLegend

Tommy C said:


> Unfortunately most TWS will pick up wind noise when ambient is on.
> I don’t think there is a way to get around this yet.


I hear wind with my ears, so why cancel it out? I understand how many people want it but for me the wind reduction algorithm on the Galaxy Buds+ just made the ambient feed more disorienting/unsafe to use. It also made me think the Buds+ are capable of ANC but Samsung dropped it at the last minute.



Canabuc said:


> Exactly. El Jefe, Digital Slang, Gamesky... They are always careful with their wording.
> 
> Prefer guys like MRKWD. He will will call it something if it is bad...


The bigger reviewers are pretty much tied to an embargo on when to drop reviews. There was some controversy a while back about Bad Guy Good Audio calling them out for the Drop Panda hype and dragged El Jefe into it. I only take those big names more like a first-look, though I particularly enjoy Sean Talks Tech, Ceonthemaking and SoZen Gadgets. SoZen's top ANC list was a bit weird though as he put 1More ANC high up his list but said he was disappointed with the ANC and sent them back as I did. MRKWD is great but he generally doesn't get to cover as much of the market. I was also a bit dumbfounded when he said the Soundcore Life Q30 has good call quality when it was quite poor until after his review when they rolled out a firmware update.  Lachlanlikesathing was one reviewer I enjoyed watching back in the days of wired audio, he would call out issues often avoided by others, and he also took a stand against review units to the point of quitting this site. Now that he's a salesperson for Minidisc he's had to change this though and rarely covers wireless budget-fi.

The other issue is most reviewers aren't willing to put down a product just because its tuning doesn't necessarily suits them. While I wouldn't go to the point of "if you like this sound you must be deaf", it just seems like more sugar coating, and also how mainstream tuning corrupts the public perception. Oluv, TotallyDubbedHD and Zeos are some examples lol

What I find a bit frustrating is how most of them don't test their devices with Windows PCs, and therefore let a brand like Samsung get away with the low bitpool issue. I asked El Jefe about this and he complained how Windows Bluetooth was terrible overall with too much latency for anything. Sounds like he only uses a Bluetooth 4 dongle or something because I find BT5.0 on my laptop a step ahead of my android phone and perfectly usable for most situations. Nobody ever mentions if a USB-C port is real or fake either.


----------



## tinyman392

FYLegend said:


> I hear wind with my ears, so why cancel it out?


The way the wind buffets against a lot of IEMs makes even the wind noise sound unnatural and "rough" IMO.  It can also get to the extent where the wind noise on the headphone makes it sound way windier then it really is.


----------



## Canabuc

FYLegend said:


> I hear wind with my ears, so why cancel it out? I understand how many people want it but for me the wind reduction algorithm on the Galaxy Buds+ just made the ambient feed more disorienting/unsafe to use. It also made me think the Buds+ are capable of ANC but Samsung dropped it at the last minute.
> 
> 
> The bigger reviewers are pretty much tied to an embargo on when to drop reviews. There was some controversy a while back about Bad Guy Good Audio calling them out for the Drop Panda hype and dragged El Jefe into it. I only take those big names more like a first-look, though I particularly enjoy Sean Talks Tech, Ceonthemaking and SoZen Gadgets. SoZen's top ANC list was a bit weird though as he put 1More ANC high up his list but said he was disappointed with the ANC and sent them back as I did. MRKWD is great but he generally doesn't get to cover as much of the market. I was also a bit dumbfounded when he said the Soundcore Life Q30 has good call quality when it was quite poor until after his review when they rolled out a firmware update.  Lachlanlikesathing was one reviewer I enjoyed watching back in the days of wired audio, he would call out issues often avoided by others, and he also took a stand against review units to the point of quitting this site. Now that he's a salesperson for Minidisc he's had to change this though and rarely covers wireless budget-fi.
> ...


Check out DHRME on youtube


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

tinyman392 said:


> The way the wind buffets against a lot of IEMs makes even the wind noise sound unnatural and "rough" IMO.  It can also get to the extent where the wind noise on the headphone makes it sound way windier then it really is.


Seems like something that would be fixed better with aerodynamics than noise-canceling microphones, but no way are you going to be able to pull that off at a commercial level.

What I'd love to see is something akin to a bone conduction microphone start to get implemented. Seems like microphones on every one of these has an ability to be the achilles heel. My Aftershokz were usually pretty clear in any environment.


----------



## samandhi

tiagopinto said:


> Canabuc, tinyman, bladefd, bronco, samandhi, clerk, enn... and all others I may be forgetting (sorry for that) who own or have owned the MT and the 85t and many other options, would you please give me some feedback on this?
> 
> (Your recent talk on cost vs features was very interesting)
> 
> Cheers and thanks.


IMO any TWS that has an ambient mode that uses the mics for the passthrough, will pick up wind while on a bike or running. This is just something that has not been easy to cancel out as wind makes such different sounds at differing frequencies, and volumes. Also, IMO the ambient mode on the MT are of really good quality. If you like the sound signature presented by them, they are a good buy. I also have had none of the connection, charging issues that others have complained about before the multiple FW releases. I, personally don't like the tuning of them, but fortunately for me, they EQ pretty decently, so I have kept them for now until I find something better out of the box. But, then I don't mind EQ'ing stuff too much (as long as they are capable of getting to my preferred sound that is).

I have come to like the Nuarl N6Pro sound quality. The tuning isn't too bad, but can be fixed up with some EQ, and the problems I thought I had when I first listened to them, have mostly gotten better... The Bass STILL has some distortion on songs that the sub bass hits really hard though. The grainy treble I was hearing before has gone away and now is pretty smooth. Mids have been pretty good out of the box. These phones don't have any extra options, except that they have really good passive isolation. 

The Hifiman TWS600 were absolutely horrible at first listen, but I have admit they EQ REALLY well, and once you get them set right, they sound fantastic (again, not the best). They are only $50 so I really couldn't lose on that. Again, no features to speak of. They don't have AptX, only AAC and SBC. I DO have to mention, they have done some miracles with SBC on these because the sound quality is amazing for a decade old codec.

My old school Bose Soundsport Free sound pretty good right out of the box (but not my preferred sound signature). They don't have any features, except they don't go IN your ears, so have a natural ambient mode. I have to admit these have some of the best bass that I have heard from a TWS even though they don't go in your ears. I have a couple of issues with them though; they stick out like frankenstein bolts, and look huge in your ears. This is obviously subjective. Also, they only last for a few hours. I imagine it was average for battery life when they were new though. They ONLY have SBC codec. Now when they were new and cost $200 (ish), that was out of site, but I picked them up for less than $100, so it didn't bother me TOO much at the time.

I'm still scoping out what I will try next, because I have yet to find my "end game" or equivalent in TWS. Not sure I will find them until the tech catches up with the ideas that are able to be cooked up in some people's minds...  I may try the Jabras or Grados. I have been afraid to try the "chi-fi" version of some of the TWS because I am not sure there are too many that will punch higher than their cost yet(unlike some IEMs). 




Canabuc said:


> I tried it but it still seems i need to long press to activate. How do you do it hands free?


I think there is a setting (in the millions of options) for google voice that you can allow "OK Google" through bluetooth... Also for Alexa, if you are using the Amazon app, you can enable Alexa commands (also) via a setting inside the app itself, though I think you DO have to have the app in focus on your phone when you turn the screen off. That I am not sure of because I have yet to use it via bluetooth.


----------



## FYLegend

tinyman392 said:


> The way the wind buffets against a lot of IEMs makes even the wind noise sound unnatural and "rough" IMO.  It can also get to the extent where the wind noise on the headphone makes it sound way windier then it really is.


yeah, I mean that should have been accounted for from the get-go, instead of adding some software filter that alters the overall usage experience as Samsung has done. The original ambient mode let in a fair amount of low frequencies but now it just sounds tinny after the April firmware update.


----------



## 543293

Day after day of fine-tuning in the FIIL app and I've finally found the sound to surpass that of the EFP and T1 Lite


----------



## Soul_Viper (Mar 2, 2021)

hello everybody!!

in the last 2 months had the opportunity of trying aipods pro and now moving again to android went for a pair of the new galaxy buds pro

the change was a bit frustrating for me, the galaxy are much less comfortable for me and the active anc is awful in comparison (it doesn't block completely the voices of my boring colleagues)

so I'm planing to sell the galaxy buds and try another anc tws, so I hope you can recommend me some model

The keys for me are comfort > anc > sound > battery and don't care about the price

Have seen several models like jabra elite 85t, momentum true wireless 2,  WF-1000 XM3 but can't decide between them, what do you think about it?

Thanks in advance!


----------



## Canabuc (Mar 2, 2021)

Soul_Viper said:


> hello everybody!!
> 
> in the last 2 months had the opportunity of trying aipods pro and now moving again to android went for a pair of the new galaxy buds pro
> 
> ...


Add the Bose to your list of ANC is a main requirement. Otherwise would say Jabra then either Sony or Sennheiser though both for me are not best for calls.
Even the Huawei freebuds pro is sound is not to priority. They have good ANC multipoint audio as well.


----------



## Soul_Viper (Mar 2, 2021)

Canabuc said:


> Add the Bose to your list of ANC is a main requirement. Otherwise would say Jabra then either Sony or Sennheiser though both for me are not best for calls.
> Even the Huawei freebuds pro is sound is not to priority. They have good ANC multipoint audio as well.



thanks for your answer, I saw bose a few days ago but reviews apparently didn't talk well about them except in terms of anc and comfort

thanks for your tip about calling, interesting 

also have read some good things about Panasonic RZ-S500WE-K (found about 70€ amazon used)

will search some info about this freebuds pro

so between all of these tws, which you would buy?


----------



## Thesonofkrypton

Might as well wait for the rumoured March/April launch of the AirPods Pro 2 / Sony WF-1000XM4 at this stage


----------



## Soul_Viper

Thesonofkrypton said:


> Might as well wait for the rumoured March/April launch of the AirPods Pro 2 / Sony WF-1000XM4 at this stage



interesting info, thanks


----------



## Canabuc

Soul_Viper said:


> thanks for your answer, I saw bose a few days ago but reviews apparently didn't talk well about them except in terms of anc and comfort
> 
> thanks for your tip about calling, interesting
> 
> ...


I am still trying to figure that out. On my journey I am discovering that no one TWShas eveeything I want at the level I want.

My priorities are different than yours. I am not on calls that much. I commute by car. I listen to music or watch tv while exercising. I have a wife who gets disturbed easily by music at night as I listen alot in bed.

As such my priorities are 1st sound and comfort. My logic is if I am listening to music I want to enjoy it and I can't if the buds hurt or the music doesn't excite me.

However for you maybe commuting and calls are most important.

The Jabra came close to being the perfect bud for me but the rolled off treble and some lack of detail made them sound good for long listening but the music didn't excite me.
The Sony, Samsung, Sennheisers,and JBL all give me a sound that makes me excited to listen to my music. But each has their trade off.
Sennheiser has great sound and best touch controls out there. ANC is so so only. And at least for my tests the calls have some artifacts that I hear that no other earbud also has. Reports are latest firmware made this happen and made ANC worse.
Otherwise they would be my pick.


----------



## jant71

As far as wind noise the JVC still has the right design and has to be among the very best.




I own them and if you turn on the mics you hear the wind noise. The right housing shape and they come with ambient tips which is still the best way to go as of now.  Physical ambient with tips. They are great for wind noise and runners thump. You have the on board bass boost mode to use with the ambient tips as well since less sealing tips lose bass.


----------



## Bhelpoori (Mar 2, 2021)

Soul_Viper said:


> hello everybody!!
> 
> in the last 2 months had the opportunity of trying aipods pro and now moving again to android went for a pair of the new galaxy buds pro
> 
> ...


I pretty much had a similar sort of dilemma as I needed to get a TWS to work with an Android work phone while most of my other objects being in the Apple ecosystem. Like you I needed good ANC which needed to be at least as good as the APP. I’ve had lots of Chinese TWS over a long period but after the APP I only bought those for secondary use as none got close to the APP for me. 

I ended up with the Jabra 85t because:
1. Bose was double the price 
2. Connectivity to two devices
3. Reliability 
4. Calling
5. Controls including mute 

I didn’t expect much from the sound and whilst it is early days, I’m pleasantly surprised especially with Wavelet. The Jabra MySound test made the sound worse for me. I may comment later on the sound as it is too early right now. 

The Fit is way better than the APP for me because the APPs needed constant adjustment when I walked the dog as they would slip around in my ear. The Jabra MyFit test worked on my right but not my left ear though both felt great to me. The APP fit test worked at the beginning but not right now either. Guess I have weird ears...

ANC is better for me on the Jabra than the APP even when the APP is properly fitted. I’ve also used Jabra a lot without ANC something that I never did on the APP... because transparency/hear through on Jabra is just good enough for  short takes and I can hear enough background while walking with ANC off. On the APP I just had transparency mode on all the time. 

More in a few days after I get more time with them.


----------



## JoshG1217

So I know this is borderline heresy, but I have the TRN bts20 pro and use them with my Clairvoyance and they drive them really well. I use them at the gym (even more blasphemous) and they murder thr falcon pro, which are the best TWS I've heard. I'm shocked how well these drive the Clairvoyance given how power hungry they are. I just ordered the Fiio UTWS3 to compare, but I could only find them through aliexpress, so will take 2 months to get them.


----------



## PixelSquish

The JBL Club Pro Plus are probably going back. The left earbud has cut out twice, but pausing the music and starting again it fixes that. But also the touch controls sometimes just don't work. While I think the low ANC volume could be fixable with firmware, I don't want to have to worry about waiting for fixes for everything else too. Got them at Amazon so a quick return to Kohls will be easy.


----------



## bronco1015

got the sylable s 103 coming in for review, never tried the 101, but a lot of the cheap earbuds these days are not as good as cheap ones were a couple years ago imo, i mean at the $30-50 price. There are still good options it seems, just not as many.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

PixelSquish said:


> The JBL Club Pro Plus are probably going back. The left earbud has cut out twice, but pausing the music and starting again it fixes that. But also the touch controls sometimes just don't work. While I think the low ANC volume could be fixable with firmware, I don't want to have to worry about waiting for fixes for everything else too. Got them at Amazon so a quick return to Kohls will be easy.


Sorry they didn't work out, man. I can see how these wouldn't be that captivating if they weren't the only pair in your collection, but that price point is hypercompetitive these days.

So what's next?


----------



## PixelSquish

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Sorry they didn't work out, man. I can see how these wouldn't be that captivating if they weren't the only pair in your collection, but that price point is hypercompetitive these days.
> 
> So what's next?


If the Panasonics just worked right out of the box, I'd keep them. I like the sound and they have longer battery life per charge than the Senns. Do your touch controls work well?

The only thing that intrigues me still are the Technics just because they have slightly more lower end than the Senn's it seems, plus the ANC is supposedly really good and I'd like to experience it, even though I don't use that feature much. I wish there was more news on the upcoming Sony's but there really doesn't seem to be much news about really any upcoming higher end TWS in the pipeline.


----------



## Canabuc

PixelSquish said:


> If the Panasonics just worked right out of the box, I'd keep them. I like the sound and they have longer battery life per charge than the Senns. Do your touch controls work well?
> 
> The only thing that intrigues me still are the Technics just because they have slightly more lower end than the Senn's it seems, plus the ANC is supposedly really good and I'd like to experience it, even though I don't use that feature much. I wish there was more news on the upcoming Sony's but there really doesn't seem to be much news about really any upcoming higher end TWS in the pipeline.


I found the Technics lacking compared to sennheiser's


----------



## Canabuc

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Sorry they didn't work out, man. I can see how these wouldn't be that captivating if they weren't the only pair in your collection, but that price point is hypercompetitive these days.
> 
> So what's next?


You have Melomania touch? They just released in Canada and while no ANC if they have good Ambient and great sound might be interested in them if they sound better than JBL.


----------



## Remiam7 (Mar 2, 2021)

Deleted


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

Canabuc said:


> You have Melomania touch? They just released in Canada and while no ANC if they have good Ambient and great sound might be interested in them if they sound better than JBL.


Yep. While they weren't technically my first pair, they were the ones that pushed me back down the rabbithole. If the JBL were a blank canvas for the EQ-savvy, the MTs are considerably more character-focused; they don't have a flat EQ and they don't mince words about it. I do enjoy those, even with stock tips, but I had to go with the small fins for the best compromise of comfort and seal. Don't think I could ever see those depart the collection, even if they're not the best at anything, really.


​But this tiny little guy showed up today. Decided to go with the USB-C version because I had a spare port on the work laptop available. Setup was basically plug & play, right through pairing up the 85t. Not so much luck with the UE FITS, though, which I was really hoping for. Both the L and R channels will show up on the Jabra Direct software in Win10, but I sadly can't establish a connection with either side. Good news is there's definitely an improvement in SQ and latency when listening to computer content via the Link/85t combo. Quite enjoying this album at the moment. Track 3's a doozy:


----------



## Canabuc

So at same other





miserybeforethemusic said:


> Yep. While they weren't technically my first pair, they were the ones that pushed me back down the rabbithole. If the JBL were a blank canvas for the EQ-savvy, the MTs are considerably more character-focused; they don't have a flat EQ and they don't mince words about it. I do enjoy those, even with stock tips, but I had to go with the small fins for the best compromise of comfort and seal. Don't think I could ever see those depart the collection, even if they're not the best at anything, really.
> 
> ​But this tiny little guy showed up today. Decided to go with the USB-C version because I had a spare port on the work laptop available. Setup was basically plug & play, right through pairing up the 85t. Not so much luck with the UE FITS, though, which I was really hoping for. Both the L and R channels will show up on the Jabra Direct software in Win10, but I sadly can't establish a connection with either side. Good news is there's definitely an improvement in SQ and latency when listening to computer content via the Link/85t combo. Quite enjoying this album at the moment. Track 3's a doozy:



So at same price point which do you prefer between JBL and the MT? Which has better fit and comfort?


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

Canabuc said:


> So at same other
> So at same price point which do you prefer between JBL and the MT? Which has better fit and comfort?


Hard to say this soon since I've only had a day with the JBL. As of right now, probably the MT, but I don't want you upset with me if you're not a fan of the sound signature.


----------



## Canabuc

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Hard to say this soon since I've only had a day with the JBL. As of right now, probably the MT, but I don't want you upset with me if you're not a fan of the sound signature.


I like my bass! But I don't like the the to be rolled off like on the 85t. I like treble detail as well so I guess U shape for me or W. My Liberty 2 pros were 2 harsh in the treble and bass was too boomy. 
Love the Sennheiser sound and more than happy with the Sony and JBL.
I'm tempted to order these but I am going bonkers now testing out 4 different tws between the 2 Senheiser the Sony and JBL. 
I don't love any of them for working out though. Thinking the MT with that stability fun would help. And they look like they don't stick out much from the ears so good for night time?
If so I will be sold if sound and comfort are there and decent ambient.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

Canabuc said:


> I like my bass! But I don't like the the to be rolled off like on the 85t. I like treble detail as well so I guess U shape for me or W. My Liberty 2 pros were 2 harsh in the treble and bass was too boomy.
> Love the Sennheiser sound and more than happy with the Sony and JBL.
> I'm tempted to order these but I am going bonkers now testing out 4 different tws between the 2 Senheiser the Sony and JBL.
> I don't love any of them for working out though. Thinking the MT with that stability fun would help. And they look like they don't stick out much from the ears so good for night time?
> If so I will be sold if sound and comfort are there and decent ambient.


Not sure I'd use the MTs for workouts, personally, unless you're willing to put in the trial and error to figure out which wing/tip combo your ears prefer. I hadn't by the time I needed the MTs for a full day of drywall repair and they started sliding around pretty easily after 2 hours of sweating. Spinfits might help; I didn't have them yet.


----------



## Canabuc

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Not sure I'd use the MTs for workouts, personally, unless you're willing to put in the trial and error to figure out which wing/tip combo your ears prefer. I hadn't by the time I needed the MTs for a full day of drywall repair and they started sliding around pretty easily after 2 hours of sweating. Spinfits might help; I didn't have them yet.


I would definitely spend the time. My 2 ears are different size canals. Thinking those options might help the fit. The JBL need extra large tips for me and then they wish out more than I like. 
MT with that fin might help.


----------



## bronco1015

Canabuc said:


> I found the Technics lacking compared to sennheiser'ss That's crazy. My technics had monster bass out of the box and slightly more with ANC activated. way more than the MTW2 did out of the box. I did get them as a review unit, so wonder if they came tuned that way?


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

Canabuc said:


> I would definitely spend the time. My 2 ears are different size canals. Thinking those options might help the fit. The JBL need extra large tips for me and then they wish out more than I like.
> MT with that fin might help.


I'll just share that, in my experience, the smaller fins have consistently had both the more secure fit and better long-term comfort; it's a little counter-intuitive, but I saw it happen with the EFPs first, then the MTs, and finally the M&Ds...man, those M&Ds really disappear in your ears with the small fins. Also, I recommend going for a shallow insertion on the tips. Seems they prefer to just sit on your ear canal or the bore really starts to hurt your inner ear after a few minutes. Don't worry; the seal is still outstanding.


----------



## bronco1015

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Yep. While they weren't technically my first pair, they were the ones that pushed me back down the rabbithole. If the JBL were a blank canvas for the EQ-savvy, the MTs are considerably more character-focused; they don't have a flat EQ and they don't mince words about it. I do enjoy those, even with stock tips, but I had to go with the small fins for the best compromise of comfort and seal. Don't think I could ever see those depart the collection, even if they're not the best at anything, really.
> 
> ​But this tiny little guy showed up today. Decided to go with the USB-C version because I had a spare port on the work laptop available. Setup was basically plug & play, right through pairing up the 85t. Not so much luck with the UE FITS, though, which I was really hoping for. Both the L and R channels will show up on the Jabra Direct software in Win10, but I sadly can't establish a connection with either side. Good news is there's definitely an improvement in SQ and latency when listening to computer content via the Link/85t combo. Quite enjoying this album at the moment. Track 3's a doozy:



Have you listened to this song on the MTs? Does that strong bass complement or drown out the awesome detail that's going on otherwise?


----------



## miserybeforethemusic (Mar 2, 2021)

bronco1015 said:


> Have you listened to this song on the MTs? Does that strong bass complement or drown out the awesome detail that's going on otherwise?


The bass never overwhelms. Stays punchy with a nice subbass extension that some of you could really grow fond of, but fast enough to not completely lose itself over rapid-fire kicks. However, I know some people won't be as happy with the top-end rolloff these have. I know they did it to soften up the DD they chose to use, but I don't think anybody's ever going to accuse these things of being exceptionally-detailed in the treble. To date, the only BA-based TWS I've listened to that handle treble detail really well (without being stabby) are the UEs.


----------



## Canabuc

I'm not sure but yes the bass improved with ANC on but overall it seemed the tuning was more towards the vocal range and lower treble. Kind of feel the Sennheiser's sound similar in the highs but with a better low end.
 I'm not the only one who feels this way but everyone's ears are different.

I should qualify it could hit very low bass sub bass extension just not with enough volume.
Conversely the Sony for example have much more Bass volume but don't hit sub bass as well.

JBL excels at that.


----------



## bladefd

Canabuc said:


> I like my bass! But I don't like the the to be rolled off like on the 85t. I like treble detail as well so I guess U shape for me or W. My Liberty 2 pros were 2 harsh in the treble and bass was too boomy.
> Love the Sennheiser sound and more than happy with the Sony and JBL.
> I'm tempted to order these but I am going bonkers now testing out 4 different tws between the 2 Senheiser the Sony and JBL.
> I don't love any of them for working out though. Thinking the MT with that stability fun would help. And they look like they don't stick out much from the ears so good for night time?
> If so I will be sold if sound and comfort are there and decent ambient.


MT has similar sound signature to the Sony imo. Much more similar than the Sennheiser at least.

I don't use the fin btw. I prefer just letting them sit in the ear with all pressure on the eartips. If you are working out though then yes, you should use the fin. I mostly use my MT while lying in bed late at night reading a book or just relaxing with music running. I don't even feel them, which I really like.

Also, I use large eartips with MT (all other earbuds I have tried, I have used medium-sized tips). If you have massive ears, eartips might not be large enough. For me, large eartips are perfect.


----------



## Luke Skywalker

Canabuc said:


> Is ANC sub par


sorry for the late reply...  You know, when I have music playing like in the gym today, I couldn't hear any background noise.  But if I'm in a noisy room with the kids I can definitely hear it.  I suspect that the Bose would be more to your liking if ANC is really important to you.


----------



## Canabuc

Luke Skywalker said:


> sorry for the late reply...  You know, when I have music playing like in the gym today, I couldn't hear any background noise.  But if I'm in a noisy room with the kids I can definitely hear it.  I suspect that the Bose would be more to your liking if ANC is really important to you.


Ambient mode is more important than ANC. Music quality and fit are my top priority.
ANC is a bonus at this point as it seems every tws with ANC makes 1 sacrifice or another be it sound quality, bulkiness, or effectively useless ANC. That is why I had high hopes on the Devialet Gemini....


----------



## Canabuc

And we'll looks like wife may divorce me when she finds out I just ordered the MT.
I will have 2 Sennheisers a Sony a JBL and now an MT I will be evaluating rest of the week.
Before Monday all will have to go but 1if more expensive or 2 if I keep the cheaper cx400bt along with 1 of Sony JBL or MT.

If she does divorce me Im sure I'll be getting the buds in the settlement....


----------



## erockg

Canabuc said:


> And we'll looks like wife may divorce me when she finds out I just ordered the MT.
> I will have 2 Sennheisers a Sony a JBL and now an MT I will be evaluating rest of the week.
> Before Monday all will have to go but 1if more expensive or 2 if I keep the cheaper cx400bt along with 1 of Sony JBL or MT.
> 
> If she does divorce me Im sure I'll be getting the buds in the settlement....


Yeah, man, right there with you.  Fortunately, she's a nurse and I'm alone working from home.  Perfect crime.


----------



## Bytor123

Marriage is a fine institution...but who wants to live in an institution?


----------



## Canabuc

Why do you think I need ANC? Lol


----------



## miserybeforethemusic (Mar 2, 2021)

Canabuc said:


> And we'll looks like wife may divorce me when she finds out I just ordered the MT.
> I will have 2 Sennheisers a Sony a JBL and now an MT I will be evaluating rest of the week.
> Before Monday all will have to go but 1if more expensive or 2 if I keep the cheaper cx400bt along with 1 of Sony JBL or MT.
> 
> If she does divorce me Im sure I'll be getting the buds in the settlement....


How have you not found a way to parallel this with her makeup/shoes/clothing/whatever hobby? All I had to do was point out to my wife that she could run a makeup store with the amount she owns and I haven't heard anything more than a casual grumble here and there.

Yes, She (Who) Must Be Obeyed...I get it. She also must be called out from time to time...

Congrats btw. If you ordered directly from Cambridge, they ship pretty darn fast.


----------



## Canabuc

miserybeforethemusic said:


> How have you not found a way to parallel this with her makeup/shoes/clothing/whatever hobby? All I had to do was point out to my wife that she could run a makeup store with the amount she owns and I haven't heard anything more than a casual grumble here and there.
> 
> Yes, She (Who) Must Be Obeyed...I get it. She also must be called out from time to time...
> 
> Congrats btw. If you ordered directly from Cambridge, they ship pretty darn fast.


Amazon now selling in Canada. Next day delivery ! Coming tomorrow!
Best thing about being in the pandemic especially here in Canada where there are still curfew is that it feels like Xmas with packages coming all the time.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

Canabuc said:


> Amazon now selling in Canada. Next day delivery ! Coming tomorrow!
> Best thing about being in the pandemic especially here in Canada where there are still curfew is that it feels like Xmas with packages coming all the time.


As a homeowner, I feel the opposite pangs. All those Amazon packages leave Amazon boxes. I can only fit so many in the recycle bin per week. We end up with a pretty heavy overflow on the crazy weeks. Local dumps won't accept residential trash/recycle due to COVID, so we have to keep what we can't fit in the bin pretty often.

Glad you're finding a silver lining, though.


----------



## erockg

miserybeforethemusic said:


> As a homeowner, I feel the opposite pangs. All those Amazon packages leave Amazon boxes. I can only fit so many in the recycle bin per week. We end up with a pretty heavy overflow on the crazy weeks. Local dumps won't accept residential trash/recycle due to COVID, so we have to keep what we can't fit in the bin pretty often.
> 
> Glad you're finding a silver lining, though.


I'm the family garbage man.  Amazon needs to figure out eco-friendly dissolvable boxes like Crutchfield and their popcorn.  Up for grabs, I just want my cut.


----------



## Canabuc

erockg said:


> I'm the family garbage man.  Amazon needs to figure out eco-friendly dissolvable boxes like Crutchfield and their popcorn.  Up for grabs, I just want my cut.


I end up returning some and then I have a closet with some boxes and rest I recycled


----------



## Luke Skywalker

Ok guys I think I was being a little unfair to my KEF mu3’s from an ANC standpoint.  I did an outdoor test walking along a street with lots of traffic.  Didn’t hear a thing with my music playing with ANC on and had to actually turn on the pass through function to hear the cars. 

And man, the sound is absolutely incredible.  I’m listening to Eric Bibb and Laurence Juber and they really sound amazing. Compare quite well to JH Lola 

The fit is amazing too.  I too always have bud pop out.  These slide right into my ears and fit like there are magnets in there. No connection issues out to 50+ feet indoors.

got them for $230 I think on KEF‘s website. They’d be a bargain at double that price


----------



## TK33

miserybeforethemusic said:


> As a homeowner, I feel the opposite pangs. All those Amazon packages leave Amazon boxes. I can only fit so many in the recycle bin per week. We end up with a pretty heavy overflow on the crazy weeks. Local dumps won't accept residential trash/recycle due to COVID, so we have to keep what we can't fit in the bin pretty often.
> 
> Glad you're finding a silver lining, though.





Canabuc said:


> I end up returning some and then I have a closet with some boxes and rest I recycled



I actually like Amazon's boxes...been using it to pack stuff away, cover floors while getting some new work done, returning items, and I save some of the good ones to use in my next move (whenever it is I finally decide to sell).  Makes shipping things like IEMs for repair easier too since they also have small boxes and there seems to be a new box on my doorstep everyday.  Also like their envelopes for packing things like picture frames...can always find some way to recycle and reuse them.


----------



## bronco1015

miserybeforethemusic said:


> The bass never overwhelms. Stays punchy with a nice subbass extension that some of you could really grow fond of, but fast enough to not completely lose itself over rapid-fire kicks. However, I know some people won't be as happy with the top-end rolloff these have. I know they did it to soften up the DD they chose to use, but I don't think anybody's ever going to accuse these things of being exceptionally-detailed in the treble. To date, the only BA-based TWS I've listened to that handle treble detail really well (without being stabby) are the UEs.


Thanks for the quick rundown. I do like a brighter sound generally, wonder if could eek a bit more out of the treble and lessen the bass a tad without throwing the tuning completely off-kilter. If I do get them I'll definitely listen to them first though, i might enjoy stock tuning. Does sound like it's probably a fun sound they went for.


----------



## bladefd

bronco1015 said:


> Thanks for the quick rundown. I do like a brighter sound generally, wonder if could eek a bit more out of the treble and lessen the bass a tad without throwing the tuning completely off-kilter. If I do get them I'll definitely listen to them first though, i might enjoy stock tuning. Does sound like it's probably a fun sound they went for.


I pumped up the highs and mids on my MT in equalizer. They sound pretty bright now. I kept the bass flat at stock tuning though because I think it's just enough bass to be right for me.


----------



## 543293 (Mar 14, 2021)




----------



## bronco1015

bladefd said:


> I pumped up the highs and mids on my MT in equalizer. They sound pretty bright now. I kept the bass flat at stock tuning though because I think it's just enough bass to be right for me.


Awesome! That actually inches me closer to buying them. I don't know why i'm hesitant, but I am.


----------



## dweaver

bronco1015 said:


> Thanks for the quick rundown. I do like a brighter sound generally, wonder if could eek a bit more out of the treble and lessen the bass a tad without throwing the tuning completely off-kilter. If I do get them I'll definitely listen to them first though, i might enjoy stock tuning. Does sound like it's probably a fun sound they went for.


If you like a brighter signature the AZ70 might be right up your alley. I would call them a mid/treble centric IEM with good sub-bass extension as compared to the 1000XM3 which I think of as being a bass mid centric signature with good treble extension.


----------



## PixelSquish

Luke Skywalker said:


> Ok guys I think I was being a little unfair to my KEF mu3’s from an ANC standpoint.  I did an outdoor test walking along a street with lots of traffic.  Didn’t hear a thing with my music playing with ANC on and had to actually turn on the pass through function to hear the cars.
> 
> And man, the sound is absolutely incredible.  I’m listening to Eric Bibb and Laurence Juber and they really sound amazing. Compare quite well to JH Lola
> 
> ...



What other TWS have you had to compare them to? I'm looking for something to compete with the Senn MTW2 if possible.


----------



## bronco1015

dweaver said:


> If you like a brighter signature the AZ70 might be right up your alley. I would call them a mid/treble centric IEM with good sub-bass extension as compared to the 1000XM3 which I think of as being a bass mid centric signature with good treble extension.


I agree on the sound of the AZ70. i have them and love them. Have loved seeing your posts about them. They're really great imo.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

bronco1015 said:


> I agree on the sound of the AZ70. i have them and love them. Have loved seeing your posts about them. They're really great imo.


Shhh I don't need to sneak another pair through the mail again...


----------



## bronco1015

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Shhh I don't need to sneak another pair through the mail again...


Before you hit submit on that order, just remember..It's only 1 more. Lol.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

bronco1015 said:


> Before you hit submit on that order, just remember..It's only 1 more. Lol.


I've got a herd of my own at this point; think I'd be okay with one less for a while.

That being said, I did fiddle around with the MT's EQ for a bit. Ended up with what's been recommended already, but figured someone might benefit from a visual:


Just goes off a little subtractive EQ. Things do open up a bit once the bass isn't front and center and I like that it doesn't lose too much impact in the process, at least with Rock. Mind, you can peg the sliders on either end of this equalizer and there's no audible distortion, so there's probably some auto-gain at play in the background, but I think they give you enough room to play here.


----------



## Luke Skywalker

PixelSquish said:


> What other TWS have you had to compare them to? I'm looking for something to compete with the Senn MTW2 if possible.


1. Jabra 65t’s - decent for what they are but muffled and no NC
2. had (and lost) the Bose which also sounded great but didn’t have the same fit. Awesome NC from what I remembee
3. NUARL N6 which I love but the sound isn’t quite as great and no ANC
4. sony xm3: hate the sound and the fit but good NC 

The KEFs are just awesome


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

Another one you can mess around with, if you feel so inclined. Might be a little less shouty for some of you


----------



## PixelSquish

Luke Skywalker said:


> 1. Jabra 65t’s - decent for what they are but muffled and no NC
> 2. had (and lost) the Bose which also sounded great but didn’t have the same fit. Awesome NC from what I remembee
> 3. NUARL N6 which I love but the sound isn’t quite as great and no ANC
> 4. sony xm3: hate the sound and the fit but good NC
> ...


 you hated the XM3? Those seem like they have a nice rich sound, you prefer less warm signatures?


----------



## Luke Skywalker

PixelSquish said:


> you hated the XM3? Those seem like they have a nice rich sound, you prefer less warm signatures?


Ha yeah they‘ve sat in a drawer for months.  I tried dozens of EQ settings that people posted and I never heard a single song of any genre that didn’t sound like s*it


----------



## miserybeforethemusic (Mar 3, 2021)

Think I've found a winning trio of EQ settings after having browsed through a few fairly different genres. Would love to hear feedback on each of these. Couldn't find one universal EQ to work across all genres/recordings, sadly.




This was a pretty cool track to bounce between each EQ. Each one pulls out textures just a little differently:


----------



## bladefd

miserybeforethemusic said:


> I've got a herd of my own at this point; think I'd be okay with one less for a while.
> 
> That being said, I did fiddle around with the MT's EQ for a bit. Ended up with what's been recommended already, but figured someone might benefit from a visual:
> 
> Just goes off a little subtractive EQ. Things do open up a bit once the bass isn't front and center and I like that it doesn't lose too much impact in the process, at least with Rock. Mind, you can peg the sliders on either end of this equalizer and there's no audible distortion, so there's probably some auto-gain at play in the background, but I think they give you enough room to play here.


Man, I have mine very bright compared to yours. I will post my eq tomorrow. I think my tuning might be a little bit too extreme for most people lol


----------



## DJ XtAzY (Mar 3, 2021)

bladefd said:


> I pumped up the highs and mids on my MT in equalizer. They sound pretty bright now. I kept the bass flat at stock tuning though because I think it's just enough bass to be right for me.


This is pretty much my EQ tuning for my MT too. The flat bass was enough of a rumble I like for my EDM music. Pumping up the mids and highs helped with the vocals and made it less dark.

I took the plunge of buying these last week on Amazon, and so far so good with the lastest firmware.


----------



## tiagopinto

Tommy C said:


> Unfortunately most TWS will pick up wind noise when ambient is on.
> I don’t think there is a way to get around this yet.



Are there any which pick up less wind noise? (at least less than the MT)


----------



## tiagopinto (Mar 3, 2021)

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Since it's a workday, using the 85t paired to both my work laptop and a OnePlus 8T, which is playing a locally stored version of this:
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Thanks for your valuable input.

I definitely prefer to keep the better SQ of the MT over the 85t. I am using an iPhone XS, so the option would be the APP at twice the price from the MT... I’m really trying to keep my TWS budget down (being this a volatile market). Guess I’ll keep looking...


----------



## Enn Jott

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Think I've found a winning trio of EQ settings after having browsed through a few fairly different genres. Would love to hear feedback on each of these. Couldn't find one universal EQ to work across all genres/recordings, sadly.
> 
> 
> 
> This was a pretty cool track to bounce between each EQ. Each one pulls out textures just a little differently:




What I used on the MT was pretty much this. Bass was too strong for me and this brought out the rest rather nice. Improved Soundstage as well as far as i can remember. As the mics now seem to work on them I'm contemplating ordering them again. Or maybe the KEF? Idk ...


----------



## Womaz

I dip in and out of this thread a lot and wow you guys go through some earbuds, I love it .
I keep putting off buying some as every time I come on here there seems to be a new different bud available, but I now need to take the plunge as I need some for my walking.
I have narrowed it down to the Sony WFX, Jabra Elite 85t, JBL Pro Plus or the Senn MW2. 
I have the Sony over ears WHXM2 and I love the sound of these , I have to give the treble a bit of a boost in the app for my preferences . They are bassy I think compared to what I am used to but I kind of like that when outdoors. So its tempting to just go with Sony, however I am keen to hear opinions off more experienced TW users.

The other option is just go for a cheaper Tozo NC9 for now as at £43 I have nothing to lose.........this would maybe be a temporary option to see how much I would use TW earbuds.
Any opinions on any of the above would be useful


----------



## webvan

tiagopinto said:


> Are there any which pick up less wind noise? (at least less than the MT)


No, ambient (like ANC) requires the outer mics to be on, so wind noise will always be picked up. It's tolerable when walking but horrible when riding a bike.


----------



## webvan

Womaz said:


> I dip in and out of this thread a lot and wow you guys go through some earbuds, I love it .
> I keep putting off buying some as every time I come on here there seems to be a new different bud available, but I now need to take the plunge as I need some for my walking.
> I have narrowed it down to the Sony WFX, Jabra Elite 85t, JBL Pro Plus or the Senn MW2.
> I have the Sony over ears WHXM2 and I love the sound of these , I have to give the treble a bit of a boost in the app for my preferences . They are bassy I think compared to what I am used to but I kind of like that when outdoors. So its tempting to just go with Sony, however I am keen to hear opinions off more experienced TW users.
> ...


The Tozo aren't too bad, you can't turn off ANC with the buttons once you activate it though so you have to put them back in the box to turn it off (or use the app of their clones whose name escapes me right now). 

They posted a detailed review on Rtings recently.


----------



## Womaz

webvan said:


> The Tozo aren't too bad, you can't turn off ANC with the buttons once you activate it though so you have to put them back in the box to turn it off (or use the app of their clones whose name escapes me right now).
> 
> They posted a detailed review on Rtings recently.


I will try and find that review thanks. I guess ANC is not of massive importance to me , its more for the wireless convenience , although I do find I like the Sony over ears more with the ANC ON.
I normally do not mind spending decent cash on my gear I am just not sure how much use they will get so that is the only real reason the Tozo is being considered.


----------



## bronco1015

miserybeforethemusic said:


> I've got a herd of my own at this point; think I'd be okay with one less for a while.
> 
> That being said, I did fiddle around with the MT's EQ for a bit. Ended up with what's been recommended already, but figured someone might benefit from a visual:
> 
> Just goes off a little subtractive EQ. Things do open up a bit once the bass isn't front and center and I like that it doesn't lose too much impact in the process, at least with Rock. Mind, you can peg the sliders on either end of this equalizer and there's no audible distortion, so there's probably some auto-gain at play in the background, but I think they give you enough room to play here.


That's great to hear. thanks for sharing. I know the feeling. That's the biggest reason I haven't gotten the MTs yet, need to sell some others first.


----------



## bronco1015

Womaz said:


> I dip in and out of this thread a lot and wow you guys go through some earbuds, I love it .
> I keep putting off buying some as every time I come on here there seems to be a new different bud available, but I now need to take the plunge as I need some for my walking.
> I have narrowed it down to the Sony WFX, Jabra Elite 85t, JBL Pro Plus or the Senn MW2.
> I have the Sony over ears WHXM2 and I love the sound of these , I have to give the treble a bit of a boost in the app for my preferences . They are bassy I think compared to what I am used to but I kind of like that when outdoors. So its tempting to just go with Sony, however I am keen to hear opinions off more experienced TW users.
> ...


i haven't heard the Tozo, but i like the idea of starting cheaper in case you don't use them as much as you anticipated. Like getting a cheaper over ear headphone before taking the plunge on one that costs a lot more.


----------



## Womaz

bronco1015 said:


> i haven't heard the Tozo, but i like the idea of starting cheaper in case you don't use them as much as you anticipated. Like getting a cheaper over ear headphone before taking the plunge on one that costs a lot more.


Yes it could be the sensible option, i guess I am just a little worried that they may sound awful I do have some decent headphones and I do want decent sound quality even if they only get occasional use.


----------



## webvan

No they won't sound awful, they have quite decent SQ, good fit and excellent isolation and . I didn't keep them because I had what they offer "covered" by my "herd".


----------



## tiagopinto

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Not sure I'd use the MTs for workouts, personally, unless you're willing to put in the trial and error to figure out which wing/tip combo your ears prefer. I hadn't by the time I needed the MTs for a full day of drywall repair and they started sliding around pretty easily after 2 hours of sweating. Spinfits might help; I didn't have them yet.


I’ve been using the MT on 3/4 hour mountain bike rides, sweating a lot, and no issue at all with fit or slipping. All good. It’s just that amplified wind noise that’s bothering me when I go past 10/15 km/h (very easy, of course) or if it’s very windy by itself. And my neck tube, when over the buds, triggers commands. But I’m not doing it too often, only if it’s too cold. 

I guess I’m keeping the MT for now... (although I’d like to try the 85t, I couldn’t ever compromise on SQ) and we’ll see what’s dropping in the market soon.


----------



## webvan

Can't you turn off Ambient? Or is it to stay aware? In that case you'd be better off with the X12 that are ideal for running, for biking the "road noise" could be a distraction.


----------



## Tommy C

tiagopinto said:


> Are there any which pick up less wind noise? (at least less than the MT)



Not that I’m aware of. Sorry.


----------



## Canabuc

Womaz said:


> I dip in and out of this thread a lot and wow you guys go through some earbuds, I love it .
> I keep putting off buying some as every time I come on here there seems to be a new different bud available, but I now need to take the plunge as I need some for my walking.
> I have narrowed it down to the Sony WFX, Jabra Elite 85t, JBL Pro Plus or the Senn MW2.
> I have the Sony over ears WHXM2 and I love the sound of these , I have to give the treble a bit of a boost in the app for my preferences . They are bassy I think compared to what I am used to but I kind of like that when outdoors. So its tempting to just go with Sony, however I am keen to hear opinions off more experienced TW users.
> ...



I have owned or tested all of the ones you listed ask me anything!


----------



## Canabuc

Womaz said:


> I dip in and out of this thread a lot and wow you guys go through some earbuds, I love it .
> I keep putting off buying some as every time I come on here there seems to be a new different bud available, but I now need to take the plunge as I need some for my walking.
> I have narrowed it down to the Sony WFX, Jabra Elite 85t, JBL Pro Plus or the Senn MW2.
> I have the Sony over ears WHXM2 and I love the sound of these , I have to give the treble a bit of a boost in the app for my preferences . They are bassy I think compared to what I am used to but I kind of like that when outdoors. So its tempting to just go with Sony, however I am keen to hear opinions off more experienced TW users.
> ...


I would consider the Fiil t1 pro or if you don't want to deal with an app, the earfun free pro.
With coupon code would likely be as cheap as the Tozo bit better sound.


----------



## Womaz (Mar 3, 2021)

Canabuc said:


> I have owned or tested all of the ones you listed ask me anything!


Ok thanks.
Which one would you recommend if I decide to do the job properly ie spend some cash on this  
I will try and explain what I need to avoid at all costs. I always find IEM listening a bit of a shock at first as I mainly use full size headphones. They are in my signature.
I dislike too bright a signature and dislike even more a bloated bass, which drowns out all of the detail.
As this will be on the go listening and possibly lazing in the garden on a summers say the sound does not have to be amazing. Connection reliability , good tight bass and no brightness would be the critical factors.
An app to EQ would also be beneficial as I can play about with this.
I have both the Andromeda and the ER4XR and love both of these so anything with a similar sound signature would be great


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

Canabuc said:


> I would consider the Fiil t1 pro or if you don't want to deal with an app, the earfun free pro.
> With coupon code would likely be as cheap as the Tozo bit better sound.


I'd second this. Those are distinctly tiny buds, too. Pretty comfy over long stretches


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

Womaz said:


> Ok thanks.
> Which one would you recommend if I decide to do the job properly ie spend some cash on this
> I will try and explain what I need to avoid at all costs. I always find IEM listening a bit of a shock at first as I mainly use full size headphones. They are in my signature.
> I dislike too bright a signature and dislike even more a bloated bass, which drowns out all of the detail.
> ...


Sounds like the M&Ds might be right up your alley. I'd take a stab and say the KEF will probably be tuned right up your alley.

On the budget end (<$100), either the Lypertek S2 Fiil T1 Pro or the Earfun Free Pro (with a little EQ to tackle the bass hump) would probably be good choices.

Mid-tier ($100-200), I'd probably go with the JBL Club Pro+ or Cambridge MT. The EQ is the real stunner there, offering you a lot of tweakability. I haven't had the same issues with audio staying ducked on the JBL after turning on ANC, either, and it's certainly effective enough to drown out the vacuum/carpet cleaner. MTs will run you a little less, isolate pretty well passively, but have the added bonus of stabilizing fins on each IEM shell.

I'd consider high end (at this point) anywhere in excess of $200 until the really big players enter the TWS space. MTW2, 85t, UE FITS... Kind of a free-for-all up there. I wouldn't go for the Sony if you're already a little disappointed in the over-ears. The M&D MW07 Plus might be right up your alley.


----------



## Womaz

The Fiil T1 Pro look a little difficult to find in the UK
I guess right now I am pondering whether to go for a cheap option at first or just go for one of the more expensive options. I guess if they do not get used a lot I could sell them on


----------



## Canabuc

Womaz said:


> Ok thanks.
> Which one would you recommend if I decide to do the job properly ie spend some cash on this
> I will try and explain what I need to avoid at all costs. I always find IEM listening a bit of a shock at first as I mainly use full size headphones. They are in my signature.
> I dislike too bright a signature and dislike even more a bloated bass, which drowns out all of the detail.
> ...


How important are add on features like IP rating, ANC,wireless charging...

If you like tight bass and not overly bright treble JBL would be great option but their ANC is near worthless.
85t has a warm sound treble pretty rolled off. Bass a bit bloated but the EQ can tame that.
Among class leaders for ANC.


----------



## Womaz (Mar 3, 2021)

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Sounds like the M&Ds might be right up your alley. I'd take a stab and say the KEF will probably be tuned right up your alley.
> 
> On the budget end (<$100), either the Lypertek S2 Fiil T1 Pro or the Earfun Free Pro (with a little EQ to tackle the bass hump) would probably be good choices.
> 
> ...


Great post thanks.
I do like the Sony over ears so not sure where you picked my dislike of them up . Infact I often prefer them to my Andromedas and ER4XR.
I will investigate your other suggestions......but I dont want the list getting bigger   
Can you clarify which of the JBL or Cambridge option had the great app for EQ please?

The fins on the Cambridge might also appeal as they can help a lot with fit I feel


----------



## Womaz

Canabuc said:


> How important are add on features like IP rating, ANC,wireless charging...
> 
> If you like tight bass and not overly bright treble JBL would be great option but their ANC is near worthless.
> 85t has a warm sound treble pretty rolled off. Bass a bit bloated but the EQ can tame that.
> Among class leaders for ANC.


I guess all of those are not that important. ANC maybe as I think it can help the sound quality , I think it does with the Sony over ears.
I think tight bass is probably the biggest like for me . I like the bass in both my Andro and the ER4XR


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

Womaz said:


> Great post thanks.
> I do like the Sony over ears so not sure where you picked my dislike of them up . Infact I often prefer them to my Andromedas and ER4XR.
> I will investigate your other suggestions......but I dont want the list getting bigger
> Can you clarify which of the JBL or Cambridge option had the great app for EQ please?


Forgive me. We're just waking up on my coast, so it got lost in context.

JBL's EQ is, bar none, the most extensive of any option I've tried. Some appreciate that, some find it a real chore to dial in. The presets JBL includes are effectively useless, but the driver itself is tuned pretty closely to the Harman curve. Cambridge's paints with broader strokes, just giving you names for the audio regions and sliders. It's not completely graphical, though, and there's some auto-gain and parametric stuff going in the background. Some people prefer its simplicity.


----------



## chinmie

Womaz said:


> Great post thanks.
> I do like the Sony over ears so not sure where you picked my dislike of them up . Infact I often prefer them to my Andromedas and ER4XR.
> I will investigate your other suggestions......but I dont want the list getting bigger
> Can you clarify which of the JBL or Cambridge option had the great app for EQ please?
> ...



if you like the Sony WH sound, the natural choice might be the WF XM3. i have the WH XM3, and the WF is similar in sound, but with a slightly leaner midbass and cleaner mid, though it's easy to EQ them to be closer, and i think it's possible to make the WF closer to the Andromeda because they have similar signature (if i remember the Andro sound correctly). i like the WF sound better so i gave my WH to my son. 

for the ER4XR, people say that the Lypertek Tevi would be the closest, though i haven't tried it myself. 
among my TWS collections that are closer to my ER4XR sound would be the old Nillkin Go and Tronsmart Onyx Free, and maybe the Galaxy Buds to some degree, but it's more of a harman tuning than the Ety's


----------



## Canabuc

Womaz said:


> Great post thanks.
> I do like the Sony over ears so not sure where you picked my dislike of them up . Infact I often prefer them to my Andromedas and ER4XR.
> I will investigate your other suggestions......but I dont want the list getting bigger
> Can you clarify which of the JBL or Cambridge option had the great app for EQ please?
> ...


JBL have the most comprehensive equalizer I have seen. My Cambridge arrive later today but seems to have at our 6 band EQ.
Sony XM3 is a good option at its current price if you don't mind the bulkier fit. But they sound very good and have terrific ANC..

So in order for sound.:
MTW2
JBL
Sony
Jabra

ANC:
Sony/Jabra
MTW2
JBL

Comfort:
MTW2/JBL
Jabra
Sony ( though with right tips the comfort very good)

Battery life:
Sony
JBL
Jabra/MTW2

Equalizer:
JBL
Sony
Jabra
Sennheiser


Will update when I can test the Melomania touch.


----------



## Canabuc

Womaz said:


> I guess all of those are not that important. ANC maybe as I think it can help the sound quality , I think it does with the Sony over ears.
> I think tight bass is probably the biggest like for me . I like the bass in both my Andro and the ER4XR


In most buds ANC change the sound and not usually for the better. Often adds more Bass but loose detail and soundstage.

If you like impactful bass that doesn't cloud the mids, then JBL are my top choice, MTW2 second, Sony 3rd, Jabra similar to Sony.


----------



## Womaz

Some excellent replies guys so thanks very much.
I will have a good look at all of the suggestions, but this time I need to take the plunge as I have been close a few times and backed off. I have some cash in my Paypal account so I think this rules Amazon out which is a bit of a shame as I like the return policy.

I will also look on EBay as sometimes get some relatively new stuff at a good price.


----------



## webvan

If you're in the US or the UK take a look at the Amazon Echobuds. If I had to keep just ONE pair of TWS it would be them. Using them right now on my commuter train actually. I've had maybe 20+ pairs over the past two years if that helps 
For some reason they are generally snubbed here, because they're MicroUSB for a start...yeah it's mildly annoying but absolutely not a deal-breaker in my book. They are up there with MTW2 for SQ/Fit/Battery life but at half (or more) the price and with slightly better isolation, the best isolation across the board probably, TWS and Headphones.

Actually since I run I would also keep the Sabbat X12.


----------



## stormwrx

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Think I've found a winning trio of EQ settings after having browsed through a few fairly different genres. Would love to hear feedback on each of these. Couldn't find one universal EQ to work across all genres/recordings, sadly.
> 
> 
> 
> This was a pretty cool track to bounce between each EQ. Each one pulls out textures just a little differently:



I’m a big fan of Custom 2 above. It is a nice improvement over the “Balanced” EQ - still punchy, but with more clarity and top-end sparkle. 

Also, I am using the Final Audio Type E True Wireless tips (wider bore and shorter stem) and they work great with the Melomania Touch:
https://www.mtmtaudio.com/products/...-for-true-wireless-bluetooth-earphone-2-pairs


----------



## Canabuc (Mar 3, 2021)

stormwrx said:


> I’m a big fan of Custom 2 above. It is a nice improvement over the “Balanced” EQ - still punchy, but with more clarity and top-end sparkle.
> 
> Also, I am using the Final Audio Type E True Wireless tips (wider bore and shorter stem) and they work great with the Melomania Touch:
> https://www.mtmtaudio.com/products/...-for-true-wireless-bluetooth-earphone-2-pairs


I made a mistake and saw these on amazon for good price but was not the tws version. I wonder if the only difference is stem length? If so can stems be trimmed?


----------



## bladefd

stormwrx said:


> I’m a big fan of Custom 2 above. It is a nice improvement over the “Balanced” EQ - still punchy, but with more clarity and top-end sparkle.
> 
> Also, I am using the Final Audio Type E True Wireless tips (wider bore and shorter stem) and they work great with the Melomania Touch:
> https://www.mtmtaudio.com/products/...-for-true-wireless-bluetooth-earphone-2-pairs


I was looking to order those type e tips for tws. Are they more comfortable than MT's default ones? Can you please give a basic comparison of the two??


----------



## bladefd

Canabuc said:


> I made a mistake and saw these on zone for good price but was not the tws version. I wonder if the only difference is stem length? If so can stems be trimmed?


I don't think so. You would probably have to cut some of the bore too. Cutting would probably also change the sound quality a bit.

I emailed final company a few weeks ago and they told me those will be coming to Amazon soon. I'm waiting until they come on Amazon.


----------



## stormwrx

bladefd said:


> I was looking to order those type e tips for tws. Are they more comfortable than MT's default ones? Can you please give a basic comparison of the two??



Unfortunately, I can’t give a good comparison because even the largest tips that came with the Melomania Touch did not form a seal with my ears. However, the Final Audio tips in extra large form a great seal, are very comfortable, and sound balanced to my ears.

Here’s a review of the Final Audio tips (will need to be translated from Japanese): https://kajetblog.com/type-e-tws/

Here’s another great article comparing various tips, including the Final Audios:
https://www.audioreviews.org/guide-to-iem-silicone-eartips/

Note that these tips are quite a bit different from the standard Type Es - they have the same ribbed core, but the stem is much shorter and the bore is a lot wider than the standards.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

stormwrx said:


> I’m a big fan of Custom 2 above. It is a nice improvement over the “Balanced” EQ - still punchy, but with more clarity and top-end sparkle.
> 
> Also, I am using the Final Audio Type E True Wireless tips (wider bore and shorter stem) and they work great with the Melomania Touch:
> https://www.mtmtaudio.com/products/...-for-true-wireless-bluetooth-earphone-2-pairs


Thanks! I tried to keep the changes relatively subtle.

Good news is that, so long as you view each of the MT's EQ sliders as fixing a "region" vs a specific frequency, I think you'll really get the hang of taking care of bad recordings. More than once, I had to drop one of the sliders a notch from where I thought it needed to be because something got shouty.


----------



## dj24

PixelSquish said:


> Been listening to the JBL Club Pro Plus for a while now plus threw on the MTW2's for some comparisons. The Club Pro Plus sound real good. A little EQ and they sound as good as the MTW2's to my average ears. I feel like they have just a tad more sub-bass presence but when I throw on the MTW2's it gets really hard to tell if that is the case at all. Both a lot of fun to listen to.
> 
> With my Google Pixel 5 I have to keep both the Senns and JBL's at 90-100% volume to keep me happy. *I like my music loud.* I wish both had more headroom. *I have absolute volume turned off in developer options.*
> 
> ...


I feel the same.  I wish my Jabra Elite Active 75t was a tad more louder.  Do you keep absolute volume turned off for this reason and do you see a difference in loudness with it on and off?  I guess I can try to do the same with my Galaxy Note 20 Ultra.


----------



## DJ XtAzY

For the owners of MT, do your buds deplete battery at the same rate for both sides, or does one of them deplete faster than the other one?


----------



## bladefd

DJ XtAzY said:


> For the owners of MT, do your buds deplete battery at the same rate for both sides, or does one of them deplete faster than the other one?


The one connected to the phone depletes faster because it is doing 2-way communications with the phone and the other earbud. Once the battery equilibrium gets too extreme, the connected earbud switches. That has been my experience. Just give it 2-3 seconds to switch buds automatically.


----------



## Canabuc

dj24 said:


> I feel the same.  I wish my Jabra Elite Active 75t was a tad more louder.  Do you keep absolute volume turned off for this reason and do you see a difference in loudness with it on and off?  I guess I can try to do the same with my Galaxy Note 20 Ultra.


If you boost with eq the jbl get very loud. If your eq settings are near 0db try moving the same shape we up about 3db. Unlike Sennheiser the music is amplified rather than just equalized. They are now just a hair behind the Sony which seem to be loudest for me.
85talso got loud.


----------



## Canabuc

bladefd said:


> The one connected to the phone depletes faster because it is doing 2-way communications with the phone and the other earbud. Once the battery equilibrium gets too extreme, the connected earbud switches. That has been my experience. Just give it 2-3 seconds to switch buds automatically.


I thought for newer phones it has tws+ connection so not master slave

https://www.androidauthority.com/qualcomm-truewireless-stereo-plus-true-wireless-earbuds-942128/


----------



## Peddler

Womaz said:


> I dip in and out of this thread a lot and wow you guys go through some earbuds, I love it .
> I keep putting off buying some as every time I come on here there seems to be a new different bud available, but I now need to take the plunge as I need some for my walking.
> I have narrowed it down to the Sony WFX, Jabra Elite 85t, JBL Pro Plus or the Senn MW2.
> I have the Sony over ears WHXM2 and I love the sound of these , I have to give the treble a bit of a boost in the app for my preferences . They are bassy I think compared to what I am used to but I kind of like that when outdoors. So its tempting to just go with Sony, however I am keen to hear opinions off more experienced TW users.
> ...


I have both the WH1000XM2 and the WF1000XM3 and feel that they definitely share a similar sound characteristic.  I personally love both these headphones and the WF's are amongst my favourite TWS - I don't use EQ as I really like their default profile.  I suppose I'm one of the lucky ones as I always get a really good fit with them as well.

Whilst I think that the best sounding wireless setup for me are the iBasso IT00/CF01 combination, the Sony's are not that far behind. I hope this helps.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

DJ XtAzY said:


> For the owners of MT, do your buds deplete battery at the same rate for both sides, or does one of them deplete faster than the other one?


They can differ by a couple percent, but should track pretty well with each other. It's part of the TWS+ standard; there is a designated primary, which is usually either the first bud paired or the first one connected after pulling them out of the case.


----------



## bladefd (Mar 3, 2021)

Canabuc said:


> I thought for newer phones it has tws+ connection so not master slave
> 
> https://www.androidauthority.com/qualcomm-truewireless-stereo-plus-true-wireless-earbuds-942128/


I don't have tws+ connection mode on my pixel 3 (chip supports it, but google has not integrated it for some reason). On mine, one bud connects to phone and other piggybacks off it. Then it just tries to maintain equilibrium. For MT, either bud can be master.


----------



## bladefd

stormwrx said:


> Unfortunately, I can’t give a good comparison because even the largest tips that came with the Melomania Touch did not form a seal with my ears. However, the Final Audio tips in extra large form a great seal, are very comfortable, and sound balanced to my ears.
> 
> Here’s a review of the Final Audio tips (will need to be translated from Japanese): https://kajetblog.com/type-e-tws/
> 
> ...


I suspected MT's large may not be large enough for some people with big ears.

Until I got to MT, all my eartips were medium for every earbud I tried. I have average ear size but only large would fit with MT. I don't know if other MT users had same issue, but maybe my ears are bigger than average person? I've no clue.

I read both those reviews before emailing Final because I was interested. Just checked Amazon - it's not up yet. MTMT sends them from Hong Kong so I don't know if I feel comfortable ordering from there. I don't quite know if I would want to get large or medium either :/


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

bladefd said:


> I suspected MT's large may not be large enough for some people with big ears.
> 
> Until I got to MT, all my eartips were medium for every earbud I tried. I have average ear size but only large would fit with MT. I don't know if other MT users had same issue, but maybe my ears are bigger than average person? I've no clue.
> 
> I read both those reviews before emailing Final because I was interested. Just checked Amazon - it's not up yet. MTMT sends them from Hong Kong so I don't know if I feel comfortable ordering from there. I don't quite know if I would want to get large or medium either :/


Did you check Audio46? I know they have a set of Final tips with bore adapters. Don't think they're TWS-specific, though.


----------



## bladefd

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Did you check Audio46? I know they have a set of Final tips with bore adapters. Don't think they're TWS-specific, though.


I just see the regular version. Wouldn't fit in the case unfortunately. Have to wait for the TWS version.


----------



## turbobb (Mar 3, 2021)

tiagopinto said:


> Are there any which pick up less wind noise? (at least less than the MT)


Supposedly Libratone's new Track Air+ SE can also block wind but I don't believe they're released yet.

Per the product page:


> "Smart noise cancellation has been enhanced even more. From now on wind noises can simply be blocked out."



EDIT: Looks like @mincyr has this model - can you speak to how well it blocks wind noise?


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

bladefd said:


> I just see the regular version. Wouldn't fit in the case unfortunately. Have to wait for the TWS version.


What a bummer.

On my end, found a random pair of tips from the Noble X case. Don't know much about them, besides they're a little less bulbous than the stock MT tips, black, and have a piece of rubber that goes down the middle of the bore at the top. Fits like a charm on the MTs for me and it doesn't seem to affect SQ for the negative. Maybe the upper midrange has opened up a bit, but I need more listening to make up my mind.

Would have taken a photo, but this OnePlus camera is pretty garbage unless the lighting is perfect here and it sure isn't perfect today. The MTs do look kinda funky with a white body and black tips, but at least they're not visible.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

turbobb said:


> Supposedly Libratone's new Track Air+ SE can also block wind but I don't believe they're released yet.


Man, that product page looks pretty janky. Not too happy that I can't find a spec sheet very easily and the product language used is a little on the basic side for my tastes. Things like how they describe the charging pad rub me the wrong way.

Kudos to them if they figured out a decent wind-blocking algo, though. I'd be more than happy to give credit if credit's due.


----------



## tinyman392

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Man, that product page looks pretty janky. Not too happy that I can't find a spec sheet very easily and the product language used is a little on the basic side for my tastes. Things like how they describe the charging pad rub me the wrong way.
> 
> Kudos to them if they figured out a decent wind-blocking algo, though. I'd be more than happy to give credit if credit's due.


Libratone has historically been a design-first audio company that pushed for more fabrics and textiles in their designs.  I always tended to compare them to Bowers & Wilkins when it came to styling, though I never actually heard any of their headphones (had a speaker to review from them a long time ago, don’t remember what it sounded like though).


----------



## miserybeforethemusic (Mar 3, 2021)

Here we go. Oh, this is a lovely combination btw:



I have zero complaints about these so far. None. I'm happy enough with them to run with JBL's EQ disabled entirely, to be honest. They're just so comfy.


tinyman392 said:


> Libratone has historically been a design-first audio company that pushed for more fabrics and textiles in their designs.  I always tended to compare them to Bowers & Wilkins when it came to styling, though I never actually heard any of their headphones (had a speaker to review from them a long time ago, don’t remember what it sounded like though).


Makes sense. Seems like they're hyper-focused on the lifestyle space because they don't understand their market.


----------



## tinyman392

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Here we go. Oh, this is a lovely combination btw:
> 
> 
> I have zero complaints about these so far. None. I'm happy enough with them to run with JBL's EQ disabled entirely, to be honest. They're just so comfy.
> ...


Those are some good tips.  Used to be standard fare for a lot of Chi-fi IEMs, they stopped including them for some reason, one of the few tips I could always count on getting a good seal with.  

As for Libratone...  I feel like they know their market, it's just not _us_.  The market is likely similar to the Urbanears market, but for the subset with more coin in their purse.


----------



## Canabuc

bladefd said:


> I just see the regular version. Wouldn't fit in the case unfortunately. Have to wait for the TWS version.


This is why I asked if cutting the tip on the regular e model would effectively convert it to. TWS model. They are 100 in length so likely only 1 mm or so would be needed.


----------



## Canabuc

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Here we go. Oh, this is a lovely combination btw:
> 
> 
> I have zero complaints about these so far. None. I'm happy enough with them to run with JBL's EQ disabled entirely, to be honest. They're just so comfy.
> ...


Which tips are those on the JBL and what size compared to your usual?

Also my MT came in just charged up and updated firmware.
Let the games begin!


----------



## samandhi

stormwrx said:


> Unfortunately, I can’t give a good comparison because even the largest tips that came with the Melomania Touch did not form a seal with my ears. However, the Final Audio tips in extra large form a great seal, are very comfortable, and sound balanced to my ears.
> 
> Here’s a review of the Final Audio tips (will need to be translated from Japanese): https://kajetblog.com/type-e-tws/
> 
> ...


I had the same issue with the tips on the MT. I normally wear medium(ish) in one ear and small(ish) in the other. I actually found the large to fit best in the one I normally use medium, but never got a great seal with the stock tips in either ear really.

I tried the regular Final Es on the MT, and found then to work perfectly for my ears because they are soft and at the same time tacky (or almost sticky). I think this is what makes them so popular IMO. Most stock tips are just too hard and slippery. The problem came when I tried to put them back in the case with the Final E on... They would not charge. So, if they now make a TWS version (shorter) then I may have to give them a try. But, I'm a bit disappointed that the bore is much bigger. I think that the MT already have an overpowering bass, and feel the bigger bore will increase the perception of bass.

I finally found the perfect pairing (for me) for the MT. The Spinfits that came with the Nuarl N6Pro were just the ticket. Funny thing is, they aren't very good for the N6Pro for me, but the Final E work a treat with those. Who knew???


----------



## samandhi

Canabuc said:


> This is why I asked if cutting the tip on the regular e model would effectively convert it to. TWS model. They are 100 in length so likely only 1 mm or so would be needed.


I wouldn't cut the tip, but take some from the core (from the bottom side), and leave the skirt as is. This should make it sit lower (as long as the earphone neck is long enough and it doesn't bottom out too early), but still have the full size of the effective area of the tip.... Though, I would probably practice this with a throw-away set first... heh (not that those tips are very expensive anyhow) My 2cents!


----------



## Canabuc (Mar 3, 2021)

samandhi said:


> I had the same issue with the tips on the MT. I normally wear medium(ish) in one ear and small(ish) in the other. I actually found the large to fit best in the one I normally use medium, but never got a great seal with the stock tips in either ear really.
> 
> I tried the regular Final Es on the MT, and found then to work perfectly for my ears because they are soft and at the same time tacky (or almost sticky). I think this is what makes them so popular IMO. Most stock tips are just too hard and slippery. The problem came when I tried to put them back in the case with the Final E on... They would not charge. So, if they now make a TWS version (shorter) then I may have to give them a try. But, I'm a bit disappointed that the bore is much bigger. I think that the MT already have an overpowering bass, and feel the bigger bore will increase the perception of bass.
> 
> I finally found the perfect pairing (for me) for the MT. The Spinfits that came with the Nuarl N6Pro were just the ticket. Funny thing is, they aren't very good for the N6Pro for me, but the Final E work a treat with those. Who knew???


Which spinfits and which size?
If you have extra final e tips maybe experiment by cutting the tubing on 1 by enough to fit in the case and see if it give a good seal still.
When I said the tip I meant the connector end not the ear end.
I believe they are 10mm. Measure them vs stock to have an idea from tube end  to tip.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

Canabuc said:


> Which tips are those on the JBL and what size compared to your usual?
> 
> Also my MT came in just charged up and updated firmware.
> Let the games begin!


Literally no idea what they are. Just knew I had a set of Final-ish tips in my Noble X case and found these in the process. Dimensions all worked well enough for TWS, so I figured what the heck...glad I did. They work really well with both the Club Pro+ and MT. Hopefully someone else can track them down.


----------



## Canabuc

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Literally no idea what they are. Just knew I had a set of Final-ish tips in my Noble X case and found these in the process. Dimensions all worked well enough for TWS, so I figured what the heck...glad I did. They work really well with both the Club Pro+ and MT. Hopefully someone else can track them down.


Tease!


----------



## samandhi

Canabuc said:


> Which spinfits and which size?
> If you have extra final e tips maybe experiment by cutting the tubing on 1 by enough to fit in the case and see if it give a good seal still.
> When I said the tip I meant the connector end not the ear end.
> I believe they are 10mm. Measure them vs stock to have an idea from tube end  to tip.


They are the Spinfit CP360, and I use small and medium.

My bad. I thought you meant to cut the actual tip part... LOL Yeah, I believe they are 10mm, and the MT requires, at most 8 mm (I think) to fit in the case (the small is 7.5 and fits easily, but the medium is 8). And the 8mm (medium) CAN be finicky getting them to seal to the charging pins. You have to drop them from about half inch away to get them to snap in there just right.


----------



## samandhi

Canabuc said:


> Tease!


^^^


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

Canabuc said:


> Tease!





samandhi said:


> ^^^


Sorry! I really wish I knew what they were, but the Noble X were a secondhand buy and I have no idea what tips might have been added/removed since. If a product page comes across my sight, I'll definitely share it here.


----------



## tinyman392

Canabuc said:


> Which tips are those on the JBL and what size compared to your usual?
> 
> Also my MT came in just charged up and updated firmware.
> Let the games begin!



Those are very good tips, but they're generic.  I have a few full sets lying around somewhere in my closet  A lot of Chi-fi brands used to include them with their headphones, most notably HiFiMan and Heir Audio (who disbanded and became Noble Audio).


----------



## Canabuc

Ok first 2 minutes impressions with MT.
I haven't tried other tips sizes or fins.
First off these screw in tight!.no way these fall out!
That said the medium tip on left seems ok but too small as usual for me on the right.
If press right tough and get a proper seal 
Omg that bass gets low and strong. Bass seems even better with a tiny bump down on left EQ for bass like 0.5 and same for second bar. 
Guess next step is tip tuning


One concern for me was I noticed even in the case the right earbud hasn't shut off when I first out them in after updating firmware.
Hope was user error not making sure the buds were in evenly.


----------



## bladefd

samandhi said:


> They are the Spinfit CP360, and I use small and medium.
> 
> My bad. I thought you meant to cut the actual tip part... LOL Yeah, I believe they are 10mm, and the MT requires, at most 8 mm (I think) to fit in the case (the small is 7.5 and fits easily, but the medium is 8). And the 8mm (medium) CAN be finicky getting them to seal to the charging pins. You have to drop them from about half inch away to get them to snap in there just right.


Final type e tws is 7mm so would be perfect for MT. If only they were on Amazon.

So you tried regular final e? Which size was it? I use MT's large so would be curious which final e matches up with MT's large.


----------



## bladefd

Canabuc said:


> Ok first 2 minutes impressions with MT.
> I haven't tried other tips sizes or fins.
> First off these screw in tight!.no way these fall out!
> That said the medium tip on left seems ok but too small as usual for me on the right.
> ...


You mean when you placed them in the case?? You have to ensure the red light comes on the back to make sure they began charging. You might have to jiggle them or push on the pins side until you hear a click. I had that issue - might be a case issue but it happens much less for me now. Just have to make sure red light turns on when you place in case.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

bladefd said:


> Just have to make sure red light turns on when you place in case.


Yep, exactly this. I think going smaller on the fins has helped more than anything, too.


----------



## samandhi

bladefd said:


> Final type e tws is 7mm so would be perfect for MT. If only they were on Amazon.
> 
> So you tried regular final e? Which size was it? I use MT's large so would be curious which final e matches up with MT's large.


Yeah, I used the large stock tip in one ear, and medium in the other. Going to the Final E, I used the medium in one ear and small in the other. It almost seems as though the stock tips are about 1 size smaller than most "standard" sizes. Maybe that isn't entirely true. It almost seems as though the stock tips are wider at the tip so don't insert as well, whereas the Fina E seem a bit "pointier" at the tip, so can be inserted a bit better (and seal). I am not in a position to take them out and compare atm, but I will have a look at them side by side.


----------



## Canabuc

bladefd said:


> You mean when you placed them in the case?? You have to ensure the red light comes on the back to make sure they began charging. You might have to jiggle them or push on the pins side until you hear a click. I had that issue - might be a case issue but it happens much less for me now. Just have to make sure red light turns on when you place in case.


Haven't first time I put them in after firmware update. Not since but am being more careful to see the red light. Didn't know about that at first.

I'm trying to figure out the fit of these. Stock tip medium left large right with large wings or even medium wings seen to work best. If I just put them in smoothly. Configurable but seems if I lie down the seal breaks and lose all the low end.

If I mash the tips in hard the seal seems much more secure but then the comfort goes away.

With a bump in Treble 1 and highest Treble 2 and tiny bump down in second bass by 1 send to hit the sweet spot for me sound wise


----------



## diimaan (Mar 4, 2021)

tiagopinto said:


> Are there any which pick up less wind noise? (at least less than the MT)


Haylou T16 on outdoor mode! I have them, and they work surprisingly well against wind noise but the sound quality leaves a lot to be desired!

More info here


----------



## Caipirina (Mar 4, 2021)

webvan said:


> If you're in the US or the UK take a look at the Amazon Echobuds. If I had to keep just ONE pair of TWS it would be them. Using them right now on my commuter train actually. I've had maybe 20+ pairs over the past two years if that helps
> For some reason they are generally snubbed here, because they're MicroUSB for a start...yeah it's mildly annoying but absolutely not a deal-breaker in my book. They are up there with MTW2 for SQ/Fit/Battery life but at half (or more) the price and with slightly better isolation, the best isolation across the board probably, TWS and Headphones.
> 
> Actually since I run I would also keep the Sabbat X12.


Kindly remind me again what makes the Echobuds your 'one I want to keep' ... I recall you have been vocal about them before ...
It appears that one shop here has them locally .. and since I have had nothing new in such a long time (and I am not convinced by the GB Pro, from everything I read, plus the ridiculous price here)  I might scrounge some shopping money together to get those 

(Looking at some YT videos, i feel quite often I hear 'they are fantastic for that price' ... well, locally I would have to pay 203usd ... still worth it? And what about 'The Thud'? Not really wanting them for running, but even just on long walks, the thud can be annoying )


----------



## dj24 (Mar 4, 2021)

'Looking to get a small portable music player that has excellent bluetooth and gapless playback to pair with my Jabra Elite Active 75t during my workouts/ runs.  I was just going to pick up one of the newer version sansa players when I realized none of them do gapless anymore let alone having decent bluetooth performance.

Any recommendations?

Thanks!


----------



## tiagopinto

webvan said:


> Can't you turn off Ambient? Or is it to stay aware? In that case you'd be better off with the X12 that are ideal for running, for biking the "road noise" could be a distraction.



When I’m on the trails, no problem, I turn Transparency off and it’s great. But getting to and from the trails is done on the road. Or I can do more of a city ride and, in these situations, I need to hear traffic and everything else. But I guess there’s no workaround, the mics will pickup whatever... and someone here even said the MT’s were one of the less penalizing at picking up wind. 
I guess I was just hoping someone would say “get so-and-so, they are great at this...”
Thanks.


----------



## bronco1015

samandhi said:


> I had the same issue with the tips on the MT. I normally wear medium(ish) in one ear and small(ish) in the other. I actually found the large to fit best in the one I normally use medium, but never got a great seal with the stock tips in either ear really.
> 
> I tried the regular Final Es on the MT, and found then to work perfectly for my ears because they are soft and at the same time tacky (or almost sticky). I think this is what makes them so popular IMO. Most stock tips are just too hard and slippery. The problem came when I tried to put them back in the case with the Final E on... They would not charge. So, if they now make a TWS version (shorter) then I may have to give them a try. But, I'm a bit disappointed that the bore is much bigger. I think that the MT already have an overpowering bass, and feel the bigger bore will increase the perception of bass.
> 
> I finally found the perfect pairing (for me) for the MT. The Spinfits that came with the Nuarl N6Pro were just the ticket. Funny thing is, they aren't very good for the N6Pro for me, but the Final E work a treat with those. Who knew???


even eqed in your opinion, can the MTs bring out more detail than the N6pro? I have a feeling i'll move mids and treble up quite a bit and who knows with bass. any characteristics or anything for comparisons of MT and N6P i'd appreciate if you don't mind.


----------



## Womaz

Once again just a thank you to all those who helped me on here. After reading and doing a bit more research I have decided its probably the JBL Club Pro or the Sennheiser MW2. 
There is a pair of lightly used MW2 on ebay that I may get for around £180 . The JBLs I will have to go brand new.
One last thing is the Sennheiser EQ any good. I dont play about a lot with stuff like this . I tend to tweak things and then just leave them at the setting.
Is the MW2 brand new worth the extra cost over the JBL?


----------



## davidcotton

Womaz said:


> Once again just a thank you to all those who helped me on here. After reading and doing a bit more research I have decided its probably the JBL Club Pro or the Sennheiser MW2.
> There is a pair of lightly used MW2 on ebay that I may get for around £180 . The JBLs I will have to go brand new.
> One last thing is the Sennheiser EQ any good. I dont play about a lot with stuff like this . I tend to tweak things and then just leave them at the setting.
> Is the MW2 brand new worth the extra cost over the JBL?


Sony wf10003 on Amazon uk for £150 if that’s any use?


----------



## Womaz

davidcotton said:


> Sony wf10003 on Amazon uk for £150 if that’s any use?


Yes this is also being considered ......but I think they look quite large so this is making me think twice. It is the no brainer choice in a way as I love the Sony sound from my Wireless over ears.


----------



## Canabuc

Womaz said:


> Once again just a thank you to all those who helped me on here. After reading and doing a bit more research I have decided its probably the JBL Club Pro or the Sennheiser MW2.
> There is a pair of lightly used MW2 on ebay that I may get for around £180 . The JBLs I will have to go brand new.
> One last thing is the Sennheiser EQ any good. I dont play about a lot with stuff like this . I tend to tweak things and then just leave them at the setting.
> Is the MW2 brand new worth the extra cost over the JBL?


Tough. For me the price difference between those w was nearly 100$ US.
I slightly prefer the sound of Sennheiser though some songs don’t sound great on the mTW2.
the EQ doesn’t make large sound changes.
The JBL may not sound as great for every song but never sound bad for any and can be eq much more to your taster.


----------



## Canabuc

Womaz said:


> Yes this is also being considered ......but I think they look quite large so this is making me think twice. It is the no brainer choice in a way as I love the Sony sound from my Wireless over ears.


Do you have option to buy from somewhere with return policy.
if you only care about sound the Sennheiser cx400 bt is going for about 100 US. Sound basically on par as mTW2 but without all the bells and whistles.

where are you located?


----------



## Womaz (Mar 4, 2021)

Canabuc said:


> Do you have option to buy from somewhere with return policy.
> if you only care about sound the Sennheiser cx400 bt is going for about 100 US. Sound basically on par as mTW2 but without all the bells and whistles.
> 
> where are you located?


I am in the UK.
I think the JBL is looking the more likely option .....although I will check the CX400 out too. (They are £169 in the UK so similar to the JBL)


----------



## Canabuc

Womaz said:


> I am in the UK.
> I think the JBL is looking the more likely option .....although I will check the CX400 out too. (They are £169 in the UK so similar to the JBL)


Melomania touch? Cambridge audio in UK.
Good price and am trying now got them yesterday and sound is amazing so far.
NO ANC but has ambient and full controls.


----------



## Devodonaldson

clerkpalmer said:


> I'm gonna take it one step further and say that you won't tell a difference between LDAC and AAC on ios.  I admittedly didn't believe it and hammered Apple for not including LDAC in the APM but as I dug into it more and purchased an iPhone 12, I really am a big believer in AAC on iOS as being as good as anything out there right now even with the capped bitrates.  I'd love to hear someone who can hear a difference between LDAC and AAC - maybe it's just my old ears.  Streaming Qobuz on my iPhone is sublime and sounds better than the pixel (may be hardware?).  The biggest shortfall is the lack of a system wide EQ on iOS which always sends me back to the pixel.  Trying to use Oratory's settings for most cans these days and it just can't be done on an iPhone.  Really inexcusable at this point.  How hard could it be to implement a system wide EQ considering how solid the hardware is for audio?


Not sure if someone has replied to you yet but I feel I can pretty much tell the difference between AAC and LDAC pretty consistently on good recordings. The major difference is in the upper frequencies, the treble region. The amount of detail and sparkle in the music is where AAC seems to leave more to be desired. Fiio BTR5 AAC and same track LDAC is similar except for in the upper frequencies which is where the lower bit rates lose out vs the higher bit rate codecs, from what I hear regularly


----------



## Womaz

Canabuc said:


> Melomania touch? Cambridge audio in UK.
> Good price and am trying now got them yesterday and sound is amazing so far.
> NO ANC but has ambient and full controls.


Yes they were in my original considerations.   
This is why I sit on the fence at times but I am determined to actually make the decision this time.
The Melomania Touch is £129 in the UK


----------



## Canabuc (Mar 4, 2021)

Any of those 3 won't disappoint you then it's a matter of your use case.
In my brief time with the MT so far they have the most secure fit so that if working out is a consideration....

As for ANC if that is a requirement skip the JBL it isn't much better than the passive isolation from the MT and just go for Sony or MTW2.


----------



## Womaz

Canabuc said:


> Any of those 3 won't disappoint you then it's a matter of your use case.
> In my brief time with the MT so far they have the most secure fit so that if working out is a consideration....


They may be used for workouts but these days the workouts are not that rigorous so the Sony over ears do this job.
The app looks decent on the Melomania ........does it have good tight bass?
I think I had more or less decided on the JBL  as the MW2 has gone off Ebay and dont really want to fork out £279 for a new pair.


----------



## tiagopinto

bladefd said:


> I suspected MT's large may not be large enough for some people with big ears.
> 
> Until I got to MT, all my eartips were medium for every earbud I tried. I have average ear size but only large would fit with MT. I don't know if other MT users had same issue, but maybe my ears are bigger than average person? I've no clue.
> 
> I read both those reviews before emailing Final because I was interested. Just checked Amazon - it's not up yet. MTMT sends them from Hong Kong so I don't know if I feel comfortable ordering from there. I don't quite know if I would want to get large or medium either :/



I usually use the Medium or the Large but on MT the Large is loose in my right ear, but with the fin it’s still secure. These tips are definitely smaller.


----------



## tiagopinto

turbobb said:


> Supposedly Libratone's new Track Air+ SE can also block wind but I don't believe they're released yet.
> 
> Per the product page:
> 
> ...



Thanks for your input.
On the website they’re not very clear about the ANC/Passthrough features. I mean, will wind suppression work while in passthrough mode?
Let’s see what @mincyr has to say. Also if he could elaborate when compared to MT?
Cheers.


----------



## Womaz

Canabuc said:


> Melomania touch? Cambridge audio in UK.
> Good price and am trying now got them yesterday and sound is amazing so far.
> NO ANC but has ambient and full controls.


Ok I have ordered the Melomania , thanks again for your help with this. 
I have been in and out of this thread for well over 6 months so I promised myself that I would make the decision this time


----------



## Soul_Viper

Bhelpoori said:


> I pretty much had a similar sort of dilemma as I needed to get a TWS to work with an Android work phone while most of my other objects being in the Apple ecosystem. Like you I needed good ANC which needed to be at least as good as the APP. I’ve had lots of Chinese TWS over a long period but after the APP I only bought those for secondary use as none got close to the APP for me.
> 
> I ended up with the Jabra 85t because:
> 1. Bose was double the price
> ...



so jabra elite 85t is your recommendation actually, right?

thanks for your mini-review my friend


----------



## tiagopinto

diimaan said:


> Haylou T16 on outdoor mode! I have them, and they work surprisingly well against wind noise but the sound quality leaves a lot to be desired!
> 
> More info here



Thanks. Question is, would I be able to hear the cars still? 

Also, I could not compromise on SQ.


----------



## DJ XtAzY

I usually wear medium, but MT is the only case I have to use small, since for some reason moving my head up and down alters the sound with bigger sizes. I don't have this kind of issue with my Samsung Buds.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

Womaz said:


> Ok I have ordered the Melomania , thanks again for your help with this.
> I have been in and out of this thread for well over 6 months so I promised myself that I would make the decision this time


I'd also recommend it. They were one of the first pairs I picked up and, despite a lot of really solid options I've purchased since, there's something about the MT that I keep coming back to. I hope you enjoy it!


----------



## cqtek

Here is my humble opinion of the *Geekfly GF8S*, a TWS on par with many of the wired IEMS I own and easily superior in sound quality to most of them.
I hope you like the review.
Regards to all.

https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/geekfly-gf8s.25004/reviews#review-25431


----------



## Luke Skywalker

Anyone else get the KEF mu3’s yet?  Man I love these things. I’ve been running a Tidal burn in playlist every night and unless I’m imagining things, the difference is really noticeable.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

Luke Skywalker said:


> Anyone else get the KEF mu3’s yet?  Man I love these things. I’ve been running a Tidal burn in playlist every night and unless I’m imagining things, the difference is really noticeable.


Nope and looks like they're backordered on KEF's site as well. Might be a while before they become available again.


----------



## Bhelpoori

Soul_Viper said:


> so jabra elite 85t is your recommendation actually, right?
> 
> thanks for your mini-review my friend


Thank you for the kind comment. It is too early for me to recommend them yet as I haven’t had enough time to completely check out the sound or phone call quality because of work. I should get time this weekend though. 

However I did check with support about MyFit in the app and got a local language reply quickly from a named support person with a direct reply address. Impressed. It did fix MyFit too.


----------



## PixelSquish

Disappointed in the MTW2 today. Usually I use them an hour at time tops. Never check the battery really. Today I used them for an hour and 40 minutes in a row, battery was down to 50%. This is at full volume on with ANC on. I know they rated the battery running at 50% volume but it's still disappointing.

With ANC on and full volume these buds will probably last 3.5 hours. Enough for any of my usage patterns this past year but disappointing if that changes.

But damn they sound good.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

PixelSquish said:


> Disappointed in the MTW2 today. Usually I use them an hour at time tops. Never check the battery really. Today I used them for an hour and 40 minutes in a row, battery was down to 50%. This is at full volume on with ANC on. I know they rated the battery running at 50% volume but it's still disappointing.
> 
> With ANC on and full volume these buds will probably last 3.5 hours. Enough for any of my usage patterns this past year but disappointing if that changes.
> 
> But damn they sound good.


Checks with the review I just read clocking them in at just under 4 hours of continuous play. I have a feeling Sennheiser's Integrated Circuitry isn't very power-efficient. I was just about to pull the trigger on them _and _the Technics, but the battery life on both were pretty instant turnoffs. Guess I need a better justification for something either pair brings to the table that something else I have doesn't do already.


----------



## tinyman392

PixelSquish said:


> Disappointed in the MTW2 today. Usually I use them an hour at time tops. Never check the battery really. Today I used them for an hour and 40 minutes in a row, battery was down to 50%. This is at full volume on with ANC on. I know they rated the battery running at 50% volume but it's still disappointing.
> 
> With ANC on and full volume these buds will probably last 3.5 hours. Enough for any of my usage patterns this past year but disappointing if that changes.
> 
> But damn they sound good.





miserybeforethemusic said:


> Checks with the review I just read clocking them in at just under 4 hours of continuous play. I have a feeling Sennheiser's Integrated Circuitry isn't very power-efficient. I was just about to pull the trigger on them _and _the Technics, but the battery life on both were pretty instant turnoffs. Guess I need a better justification for something either pair brings to the table that something else I have doesn't do already.


I wonder what Sennheiser's testing conditions were.  50% with SBC?  4 hours is about the norm you'd see with something like the AP and APP, but battery life will only get worse with time though as well :/


----------



## MasterDomino

Hello has anyone here tested TWS1 Pro from edifier, they look really close to x3 and i thought that they might be a good upgrade with new qc chipset and bt 5.2, i lost my set of x3 so currently trying to find a replacement one as my kz zsn are falling apart after 3 years of use.

Sincerely,
Master.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic (Mar 4, 2021)

MasterDomino said:


> Hello has anyone here tested TWS1 Pro from edifier, they look really close to x3 and i thought that they might be a good upgrade with new qc chipset and bt 5.2, i lost my set of x3 so currently trying to find a replacement one as my kz zsn are falling apart after 3 years of use.
> 
> Sincerely,
> Master.


aptX Adaptive, IP56-rated, cVc microphones, 12/40 hours? Might be worth it to just play around with these suckers. Not too versed on Edifier's sound signature anyway, so I'll guinea pig this one. Considering they're basically the same price as the regular TWS1, gives me a chance to get a TWS1 for the daughter (in pink, of course) and a TWS1 Pro (in "white") for myself. I'll definitely give feedback once they're in my hands.

Only place I could find for the TWS1 Pro was at Edifier's store on Ali, though. Not even their US website had a product page for them.


----------



## Luke Skywalker

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Nope and looks like they're backordered on KEF's site as well. Might be a while before they become available again.


Wow crazy... Yeah I ordered the immediately when i saw them on there without knowing anything about them.  But I'd heard some KEF speakers and they're pimp


----------



## miserybeforethemusic (Mar 4, 2021)

Hah, yeah, it's very...pretty. No AAC, though, so iUsers might want to beware.



Spoiler: Edifier TWS1 and TWS1 Pro










Oh and Paypal's got jokes...at least my wife found this one amusing.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

Luke Skywalker said:


> Wow crazy... Yeah I ordered the immediately when i saw them on there without knowing anything about them.  But I'd heard some KEF speakers and they're pimp


I've owned a set of Q300 for years at this point. Only upgraded them when I wanted to go with towers, so I totally get it. Those Q300 make amazing near-field monitors; shame I don't have the desk space for the stands at the moment. Those spaces are currently occupied by both of my work laptops.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

Another couple interesting options for those of you who are looking to adopt aptX Adaptive, but might want some more options:

Found one for the Nuarl fans:
https://nuarl.com/n6sports/


And looks like Soundpeats' H1 are also compatible:
https://www.kickstarter.com/project...ver-tws-earbuds?ref=discovery&term=soundpeats


----------



## Canabuc

Womaz said:


> They may be used for workouts but these days the workouts are not that rigorous so the Sony over ears do this job.
> The app looks decent on the Melomania ........does it have good tight bass?
> I think I had more or less decided on the JBL  as the MW2 has gone off Ebay and dont really want to fork out £279 for a new pair.


I paid all in about 380$ Canadian after tax for MTW2.it is about 215 Pounds.

I have 1 week to return them to Amazon. Maybe you can buy from Amazon?


----------



## Canabuc

Soul_Viper said:


> so jabra elite 85t is your recommendation actually, right?
> 
> thanks for your mini-review my friend


My 2 cents if you like the fit of the 85t they are a great all around earbud. They are not the best in anyone category but are strong with a large feature set you can't go well g with them.
I chose not to keep mine as my 1st priority was a more audiophile sound quality but otherwise they sound overall quote good and non fatiguing.


----------



## Canabuc

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Checks with the review I just read clocking them in at just under 4 hours of continuous play. I have a feeling Sennheiser's Integrated Circuitry isn't very power-efficient. I was just about to pull the trigger on them _and _the Technics, but the battery life on both were pretty instant turnoffs. Guess I need a better justification for something either pair brings to the table that something else I have doesn't do already.



This is why I think I may just keep the cx400bt and the MT or JBL.
Cx400bt sound about as good as MTW2 with no ANC. So battery reviews have it more like 5 and half hours.
Still get the great sounds and touch controls. And only cost me 100$US.


----------



## Canabuc

tinyman392 said:


> I wonder what Sennheiser's testing conditions were.  50% with SBC?  4 hours is about the norm you'd see with something like the AP and APP, but battery life will only get worse with time though as well :/


on their site their testing parameters was AAC no ambient or ANC or other high fidelity modes or EQ.
Also volume set to 50% which is a joke for these.

Will be returning mine since the ANC is not all that and can have the great sound from the cx400bt and the Melomania touch or the JBL for the price I paid for the MTW2.


----------



## tinyman392

Canabuc said:


> on their site their testing parameters was AAC no ambient or ANC or other high fidelity modes or EQ.
> Also volume set to 50% which is a joke for these.
> 
> Will be returning mine since the ANC is not all that and can have the great sound from the cx400bt and the Melomania touch or the JBL for the price I paid for the MTW2.



I don't think there is any headphone I own (BT or otherwise) where I need to set the volume above 50%  Though I generally listen pretty quietly (70-ish dB).  I think the highest I've ever done was 65-75% volume for a pair of HE-560 driven out of an iPhone.  I can definitely see the addition of a higher bitrate codec (AAC can be pretty efficient) and ANC eating up ⅓ of the battery.


----------



## Canabuc

tinyman392 said:


> I don't think there is any headphone I own (BT or otherwise) where I need to set the volume above 50%  Though I generally listen pretty quietly (70-ish dB).  I think the highest I've ever done was 65-75% volume for a pair of HE-560 driven out of an iPhone.  I can definitely see the addition of a higher bitrate codec (AAC can be pretty efficient) and ANC eating up ⅓ of the battery.



Headphone 50% not same as earbud 50% and MTW2 not same as another companies 50%.
Sound guys test all their earbuds at 75db as a fair comparison

I that test with ANC on they got just under 4 hours. APP got 5:06
Cx400bt got 5:18

4 hours not great especially for mediocre ANC


----------



## tinyman392 (Mar 4, 2021)

Canabuc said:


> Headphone 50% not same as earbud 50% and MTW2 not same as another companies 50%.
> Sound guys test all their earbuds at 75db as a fair comparison
> 
> I that test with ANC on they got just under 4 hours. APP got 5:06
> ...


I specifically said BT or otherwise to fill in the void of an IEM.  In general IEMs are quite a bit easier to drive (there are exceptions, but they are _rare_), so 50% on a full-sized typically will require less than 50% to reach the same volume on an IEM or TWS.  My hardest to drive headphone (HE-560 which is a full size, no surprise) only needs to get to like 70% to have sufficient volume.  I listen to my APP at around 38% and my APM at 44%.  My Euclid driven out of the UTWS 3 is around 33%.  My UE Fits are around 31%, same with the HiFiMan TWS800.

I'm surprised the APP got 5 hours, that's actually impressive.  4 hours is more akin to what Apple quoted for their original AirPods which was good enough, but not great.

Edit: one thing I have learned is that Head-fiers in general tend to listen a _lot_ louder than I do.  I remember going to a meet some years back, saw someone crank up the volume to almost twice what I was demoing it before at the HiFiMan table.  I guess I might be the outcast when it comes to volume.

Edit 2: It also depends on what you're listening to too though.  Loudness war era and philosophy stuff requires a lot less volume to get to volume than stuff that isn't recorded as loud and with better dynamic range.


----------



## Ascariss

Hello everyone, perhaps someone would know the answer to this.

With LE Audio coming this year, is it possible for a headset, whose Bluetooth SoC has been certified for BT 5.2 (with proper firmware upgrades and passing through appropriate certification bodies) be updated to support LE audio?


----------



## tinyman392

Ascariss said:


> Hello everyone, perhaps someone would know the answer to this.
> 
> With LE Audio coming this year, is it possible for a headset, whose Bluetooth SoC has been certified for BT 5.2 (with proper firmware upgrades and passing through appropriate certification bodies) be updated to support LE audio?


If they have the proper hardware support, it's possible for them to add it in.  Whether they can or whether they will are two different questions though.  Even if they can, I doubt they will.  Far more profitable to make you buy a new product if you want said feature compared to a net loss of profit to put it in old products.


----------



## samandhi

bronco1015 said:


> even eqed in your opinion, can the MTs bring out more detail than the N6pro? I have a feeling i'll move mids and treble up quite a bit and who knows with bass. any characteristics or anything for comparisons of MT and N6P i'd appreciate if you don't mind.


All this is with comparison between the two in mind: I can say (and I bet I'm not alone in this one) that the MT definately cannot bring out more detail than the N6Pro. That isn't the end of the story though. N6Pro has VERY weak bass. Oh it's there, and you can EQ it up, but when there is a bass heavy song playing I notice distortion in the sub-bass. There IS no mid bass to speak of, and the upper bass is recessed. While the bass on the MT is quite lovely (if you EQ it down a bit, because it is just too strong for me out of the box). It has really good sub-bass, and good mid bass, and good upper bass (these seem to have the biggest boost in sub-bass to my ears). 

As for the mids and treble, the N6pro have some of the smoothest mids and best detail retrieval of TWS I have yet to hear. At first listen I thought they sounded very grainy, but found out that these are indeed pretty picky about the quality of music you feed them. They are a mid forward tuned set of TWS. I find I have to EQ down the 1k and 2k region a bit on these. The MT have a really warm and full sounding mid, but they are very recessed a lot (I find I have to EQ up the 1k and 2k regions). The treble is where these are not my favorite. You can EQ up the treble but it doesn't make them better at details, because when you do this, the treble becomes pretty thin sounding (though remember I am speaking comparatively here). Cymbals are the worst offender for this. These are not so much a V but more like a V with a broken right arm... 

Overall, I would say I like the N6Pro better for rock and classical (anything I might want better detail). I like the MT better overall because they seem better matched to play just about anything, if you can live without the really good detail retrieval (they are more of a fun sound).  This is not to say the detail retrieval is horrible on these, but compared to the N6Pro they are.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

samandhi said:


> All this is with comparison between the two in mind: I can say (and I bet I'm not alone in this one) that the MT definately cannot bring out more detail than the N6Pro. That isn't the end of the story though. N6Pro has VERY weak bass. Oh it's there, and you can EQ it up, but when there is a bass heavy song playing I notice distortion in the sub-bass. There IS no mid bass to speak of, and the upper bass is recessed. While the bass on the MT is quite lovely (if you EQ it down a bit, because it is just too strong for me out of the box). It has really good sub-bass, and good mid bass, and good upper bass (these seem to have the biggest boost in sub-bass to my ears).
> 
> As for the mids and treble, the N6pro have some of the smoothest mids and best detail retrieval of TWS I have yet to hear. At first listen I thought they sounded very grainy, but found out that these are indeed pretty picky about the quality of music you feed them. They are a mid forward tuned set of TWS. I find I have to EQ down the 1k and 2k region a bit on these. The MT have a really warm and full sounding mid, but they are very recessed a lot (I find I have to EQ up the 1k and 2k regions). The treble is where these are not my favorite. You can EQ up the treble but it doesn't make them better at details, because when you do this, the treble becomes pretty thin sounding (though remember I am speaking comparatively here). Cymbals are the worst offender for this. These are not so much a V but more like a V with a broken right arm...
> 
> Overall, I would say I like the N6Pro better for rock and classical (anything I might want better detail). I like the MT better overall because they seem better matched to play just about anything, if you can live without the really good detail retrieval (they are more of a fun sound).  This is not to say the detail retrieval is horrible on these, but compared to the N6Pro they are.


Can't remember if you've tried the UEs. I would say similar things you have about the N6 Pro with the exception of subbass being plenty healthy if someone wants to EQ it all in there. I haven't wanted more than what the UE Signature curve (or whatever it's called) provides.


----------



## diimaan

tiagopinto said:


> Thanks. Question is, would I be able to hear the cars still?
> 
> Also, I could not compromise on SQ.


Yes, I can hear them and if the music is low I can even hear the stream which flows next to my biking route!


----------



## PixelSquish

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Checks with the review I just read clocking them in at just under 4 hours of continuous play. I have a feeling Sennheiser's Integrated Circuitry isn't very power-efficient. I was just about to pull the trigger on them _and _the Technics, but the battery life on both were pretty instant turnoffs. Guess I need a better justification for something either pair brings to the table that something else I have doesn't do already.



I usually don't need ANC on, so I could probably get 4-5 hours out of them. I don't have a usage scenario where I'd ever need that much straight battery life. Today using them close to 2 hours in a row was an anomaly. But that could change. I ordered the Technics the other day but cancelled the order but might re-order. The reviews of those do say they reach the advertised battery life of 6.5 hours WITH ANC ON. I would like to think the reviewers were listening to them at over 50% volume but they did not specify. 6.5 hours at a good volume with ANC on would be plenty for me, cause they would last longer with ANC off, and plenty for pretty much any usage scenario I can ever think of getting into, besides very long international trips. Nothing I will encounter anytime soon, and one can just bring a pair of wired buds with to fill in gaps on such journeys.

I do really like the feature the Senns have of pausing the music when you take one out of your ear. That comes in handy a lot, more so than the ambient mode. But I think the Technics will be tried next.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic (Mar 4, 2021)

PixelSquish said:


> I think the Technics will be tried next.


I was in the process of typing up a justification for why I shouldn't order the Technics, but I think I've run out of reasons. I do know that WorldWideStereo has them available for $200 and take Affirm, so I can at least start the order and just pay them off after the next billing cycle.

Enablers. You guys are enablers. All of you.


----------



## PixelSquish (Mar 4, 2021)

miserybeforethemusic said:


> I was in the process of typing up a justification for why I shouldn't order the Technics, but I think I've run out of reasons. I do know that WorldWideStereo has them available for $200 and take Afterpay, so I can at least start the order and just pay them off after the next billing cycle.
> 
> Enablers. You guys are enablers. All of you.



I love my T90's, and they are very detailed cans, with solid bass. So I can't see the Technics not being fun enough for me. They seem to have solid bass, just not MTW2 levels of bass, but bass that extends well. Definitely worth a listen.

Also, using the Senns again after the JBL Club Pro Plus was a pleasure because the touch controls work so much better. You need that big round surface area for touch controls to work well. I, at least, use the on bud touch controls a lot to skip tracks and occasionally to turn on ambient mode or turn ANC on or off. The Technics have that surface area.


----------



## samandhi

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Can't remember if you've tried the UEs. I would say similar things you have about the N6 Pro with the exception of subbass being plenty healthy if someone wants to EQ it all in there. I haven't wanted more than what the UE Signature curve (or whatever it's called) provides.


I'll have to look them up. I haven't had some UEs since the very first UE over ear Bluetooth headphones (can't remember the model anymore, as I no longer have them). They were really good, but very boomy in the bass department, but not as bad as some I have heard. That would be a very nice sounding TWS indeed (I would think). You don't find them the best, or they just don't have features  you need? My needs are simple: sound quality, connectivity, fitment, battery life..... other features are a bonus but not absolute. I DO like transparency mode, but don't need ANC at all.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

samandhi said:


> I'll have to look them up. I haven't had some UEs since the very first UE over ear Bluetooth headphones (can't remember the model anymore, as I no longer have them). They were really good, but very boomy in the bass department, but not as bad as some I have heard. That would be a very nice sounding TWS indeed (I would think). You don't find them the best, or they just don't have features  you need? My needs are simple: sound quality, connectivity, fitment, battery life..... other features are a bonus but not absolute. I DO like transparency mode, but don't need ANC at all.


Used to own some of the Triple.Fi stuff and can relate to your experience. In stock form, the FITS seem somewhat bass-light, but it doesn't take much to get sucked up into the music as long as your source material is good and I suppose someone could EQ more in to suit their tastes without it overwhelming the rest of the FR.

Of all the pairs I have, it's the UE's sound signature I love the most. Just doesn't have the same feature stack of its competitors and I'm still waiting on UE to send a replacement set of tips to see if I can't negotiate a better seal out of the right earbud. We're talking hair-splitting levels of seal improvement, though, and it's really just my attempt to squeeze the last couple percent of passive performance out of them. There's no ANC, no hearthrough, no wireless charging, and microphone quality is plenty usable (though not exceptional). Battery life is more than adequate. It's funny how you forget about all of that once you've got music playing through them, though.


----------



## PixelSquish

miserybeforethemusic said:


> I was in the process of typing up a justification for why I shouldn't order the Technics, but I think I've run out of reasons. I do know that WorldWideStereo has them available for $200 and take Affirm, so I can at least start the order and just pay them off after the next billing cycle.
> 
> Enablers. You guys are enablers. All of you.



It was a team effort. I just re-ordered the Technics from Amazon for $200, they'll be here on Saturday. Will try them for a few days otherwise they will go back and I will just wait for something else.


----------



## Ascariss

tinyman392 said:


> If they have the proper hardware support, it's possible for them to add it in.  Whether they can or whether they will are two different questions though.  Even if they can, I doubt they will.  Far more profitable to make you buy a new product if you want said feature compared to a net loss of profit to put it in old products.



Indeed, would it be in their interest, my question is more for an unreleased TWS headset, specifically the WF-1000XM4. I don't have the exact time for when they will be released, the retail box design is supposed to be finalized in april/may with priduction starting shortly after, not sure what the timeframe is from SOP to introduction. This is all assuming sony sticks with the MT2811 (found in the WF-1000XM3) which has been certified for 5.2


----------



## PixelSquish

Ascariss said:


> Indeed, would it be in their interest, my question is more for an unreleased TWS headset, specifically the WF-1000XM4. I don't have the exact time for when they will be released, the retail box design is supposed to be finalized in april/may with priduction starting shortly after, not sure what the timeframe is from SOP to introduction. This is all assuming sony sticks with the MT2811 (found in the WF-1000XM3) which has been certified for 5.2



Sounds like a June/July release for the Sony's then?


----------



## Canabuc

PixelSquish said:


> I usually don't need ANC on, so I could probably get 4-5 hours out of them. I don't have a usage scenario where I'd ever need that much straight battery life. Today using them close to 2 hours in a row was an anomaly. But that could change. I ordered the Technics the other day but cancelled the order but might re-order. The reviews of those do say they reach the advertised battery life of 6.5 hours WITH ANC ON. I would like to think the reviewers were listening to them at over 50% volume but they did not specify. 6.5 hours at a good volume with ANC on would be plenty for me, cause they would last longer with ANC off, and plenty for pretty much any usage scenario I can ever think of getting into, besides very long international trips. Nothing I will encounter anytime soon, and one can just bring a pair of wired buds with to fill in gaps on such journeys.
> 
> I do really like the feature the Senns have of pausing the music when you take one out of your ear. That comes in handy a lot, more so than the ambient mode. But I think the Technics will be tried next.



Just a warning the Technics suffer a battery case drain issue not too dissimilar from the 1st generation MTW.


----------



## zeinharis

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Another couple interesting options for those of you who are looking to adopt aptX Adaptive, but might want some more options:
> 
> Found one for the Nuarl fans:
> https://nuarl.com/n6sports/


Those are good TWS, can’t comment on the APTX adaptive though cause I don’t test it, but sound quality wise they are good. It have more bass (just a tad) than the N6 Mini (which is already warm), less tight and slower as well, I personally choose the Mini due to the less bass than the sports ones.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

Canabuc said:


> Just a warning the Technics suffer a battery case drain issue not too dissimilar from the 1st generation MTW.


Talking about idle drain while buds are inside the case?


----------



## Canabuc

miserybeforethemusic said:


> I was in the process of typing up a justification for why I shouldn't order the Technics, but I think I've run out of reasons. I do know that WorldWideStereo has them available for $200 and take Affirm, so I can at least start the order and just pay them off after the next billing cycle.
> 
> Enablers. You guys are enablers. All of you.



I had bought them over Xmas in same for about 135$ US at the time. Was impressed with the details and the mids. Found the bass was making as was the overall volume.
The bigger issue for me was they didn't fit the best. Feel it of my ears with any vigorous head movement. Also they apparently drain while in the case like the original MTW.

If those aren't issues for you they are a nice product.

But been listening to the MT. They sound in a word luscious. Definitely a warmer sound but with EQ the highs still come through nicely and better than the 85t.
Sound stage is really great and the bass is best I have heard.
They seem configurable which is important for me as I struggle with that.
I had a bit of a fit issue with right ear as the large tip while hunting a good deal would lose it with a smile or lying down.

A perfect relevant on the right is the large size tip from the Sennheiser's. Large stock tip on left and large Sennheiser on right. Perfect seal!
So for those who might need something a bit bigger than the stock large it might be a go.

Since I plan to keep the cx400bt my tip issue might be fixed without further purchases!


----------



## bladefd

PixelSquish said:


> I love my T90's, and they are very detailed cans, with solid bass. So I can't see the Technics not being fun enough for me. They seem to have solid bass, just not MTW2 levels of bass, but bass that extends well. Definitely worth a listen.
> 
> Also, using the Senns again after the JBL Club Pro Plus was a pleasure because the touch controls work so much better. You need that big round surface area for touch controls to work well. I, at least, use the on bud touch controls a lot to skip tracks and occasionally to turn on ambient mode or turn ANC on or off. The Technics have that surface area.


I felt bass was weak on the AZ70. It was a very good TWS certainly, but if your focus is on bass, I think they would be bit undermining and missing the oomph you expect from the lows/drums/rumbling. It's worth trying to see what you think but just my thoughts.


----------



## Canabuc

samandhi said:


> I'll have to look them up. I haven't had some UEs since the very first UE over ear Bluetooth headphones (can't remember the model anymore, as I no longer have them). They were really good, but very boomy in the bass department, but not as bad as some I have heard. That would be a very nice sounding TWS indeed (I would think). You don't find them the best, or they just don't have features  you need? My needs are simple: sound quality, connectivity, fitment, battery life..... other features are a bonus but not absolute. I DO like transparency mode, but don't need ANC at all.


You just described the Melomania touch!


----------



## Canabuc (Mar 4, 2021)

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Talking about idle drain while buds are inside the case?



Yes  the case continuously tried to charge the buds even when they are charged up and so the case drains down over time. Most buds the case store when buds are charged up. 
Read about it to confirm. This was a bit issue assistant with the first Sennheiser bud


----------



## PixelSquish

Canabuc said:


> Yes send the case continuously tried to charge the buds even when they are charged up and so the case drains down over time. Most buds the case store when buds are charged up.
> Read about it to confirm. This was a bit issue assistant with the first Sennheiser bud



I've read a lot of reviews of the Technics and never read that comment. I did find that commented a lot about the first MTW. 

I ordered the MT's also. I can't afford both the Technics and the MT so I'll return one or both, but I have 4 weeks before my next billing cycle so it's a no brainer.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

Canabuc said:


> But been listening to the MT. They sound in a word luscious. Definitely a warmer sound but with EQ the highs still come through nicely and better than the 85t.
> Sound stage is really great and the bass is best I have heard.


Glad you like 'em! They really just have a special quality to them that's hard to quantify. Good luck nailing down that fit!


bladefd said:


> I felt bass was weak on the AZ70. It was a very good TWS certainly, but if your focus is on bass, I think they would be bit undermining and missing the oomph you expect from the lows/drums/rumbling. It's worth trying to see what you think but just my thoughts.


My goal is always for what grabs me the most natural timbre out of a track, but can be configured for a little fun, if necessary. Bit of a pipe dream in the TWS space, but it's been a fun journey so far.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

I volunteered for the Edifier... anybody want to give these a shot? Pretty ridiculous coupon right now.


----------



## Canabuc

PixelSquish said:


> I've read a lot of reviews of the Technics and never read that comment. I did find that commented a lot about the first MTW.
> 
> I ordered the MT's also. I can't afford both the Technics and the MT so I'll return one or both, but I have 4 weeks before my next billing cycle so it's a no brainer.



I know a few around here myself included experienced the case issue and saw it in a review somewhere as well bit don't recall which one.

Ask @dweaver


----------



## samandhi

Canabuc said:


> You just described the Melomania touch!


I know, that's why I originally bought them... heh


----------



## Canabuc

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Glad you like 'em! They really just have a special quality to them that's hard to quantify. Good luck nailing down that fit!
> 
> My goal is always for what grabs me the most natural timbre out of a track, but can be configured for a little fun, if necessary. Bit of a pipe dream in the TWS space, but it's been a fun journey so far.



The fit on the MT seems great using the sennheisers large in my ear that usually has issues.
Those tips look much like the ones you posted from the Falcons.

Definitely most secure fit.i can shake my head or position it any which way and they don't budget at all. The fins I am still figuring which are most secure without any discomfort bit even the discomfort seems short lived .

The sound is definitely unique and I am still trying to find my preferred EQ settings.
There is great soundstage.
Very powerful but not boomy bass. Mids and highs are a bit recessed so I am trying to EQ them up yet somehow piano and strings still have a nice Livy sound.
Overall tone is a bit warm like Sennheiser and Jabra compared to the brighter JBL and Sony.
Makes me wonder what to keep as keeping JBL or Sony gives me a different sound signature. 

Curious for MT owners what is their best EQ settings to bring out the detail in the upper range.


----------



## samandhi

Canabuc said:


> Yes  the case continuously tried to charge the buds even when they are charged up and so the case drains down over time. Most buds the case store when buds are charged up.
> Read about it to confirm. This was a bit issue assistant with the first Sennheiser bud


I had forgot about checking into that issue. Some of the older model TWS had that issue, and I guess I assumed that was solved. My Bose Soundsport free has that issue, and it turns me off severely. Sometimes I can go a few days without listening to them, and by that time they would be dead.


----------



## Canabuc

miserybeforethemusic said:


> I volunteered for the Edifier... anybody want to give these a shot? Pretty ridiculous coupon right now.



Don't bother with Onkyo. It is a rebrand and not made by them.


----------



## Canabuc

samandhi said:


> I know, that's why I originally bought them... heh


How have you EQ them?
What tips and fins?


----------



## Ascariss

PixelSquish said:


> Sounds like a June/July release for the Sony's then?



Good question, I suspect July/August, but I don't have that info just yet.


----------



## samandhi (Mar 4, 2021)

Canabuc said:


> How have you EQ them?
> What tips and fins?


I use Spinfit CP360 small and mediuim with small fins. I found the large and medium fins to fit better but cause hot-spots after a while of use.  Here is my EQ setting for them:




This setting (to my ears) dials down the sub-bass a bit, but still gives some good bass overall, brings up the mids, and gives them a bit more clarity and sparkle.... It's not perfect, but the best I have found on this EQ app. I found there isn't really a need to do subtractive on this EQ as it is basically set to autogain on the fly, and I don't actually lose any volume or clip with additive. As a matter of fact, I find using this same setting but with subtractive, they sound different, so that means there are possibly more combinations than one might think at first glance.


----------



## bladefd

My favorite MT eq (gets bright but I like bright tbh):


----------



## samandhi

bladefd said:


> My favorite MT eq (gets bright but I like bright tbh):


That second treble is what usually makes music "shouty" to me, and I normally tone it down a bit, but overall I agree, I like bright, as long as it brings good detail retrieval without screechy or sibilant.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

Canabuc said:


> Curious for MT owners what is their best EQ settings to bring out the detail in the upper range.


You can try one of these:


----------



## erockg

Canabuc said:


> Don't bother with Onkyo. It is a rebrand and not made by them.


Yup, TCL.  https://www.amazon.com/TCL-ACTV500T...words=tcl+true+wireless&qid=1614909007&sr=8-6


----------



## bladefd

samandhi said:


> That second treble is what usually makes music "shouty" to me, and I normally tone it down a bit, but overall I agree, I like bright, as long as it brings good detail retrieval without screechy or sibilant.


I will try your EQ too. Just have to flip the two treble frequencies and go back and forth.

I'm happy with bass though. I might bring up bass2 a tiny bit but not much change there


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

erockg said:


> Yup, TCL.  https://www.amazon.com/TCL-ACTV500T...words=tcl+true+wireless&qid=1614909007&sr=8-6


Man, that's about as shameless as Samsung with AKG...


----------



## samandhi

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Man, that's about as shameless as Samsung with AKG...


LOL. Yeah, I'm not even sure I believe that AKG even tuned those free buds that came with the note 8, 9, 10...


----------



## dweaver

Canabuc said:


> I know a few around here myself included experienced the case issue and saw it in a review somewhere as well bit don't recall which one.
> 
> Ask @dweaver


I have noticed the power drain a bit but not much and nothing like the original MTW.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

samandhi said:


> LOL. Yeah, I'm not even sure I believe that AKG even tuned those free buds that came with the note 8, 9, 10...


I remember reading something about them acquiring the company and keeping the name only. Maybe an engineer or two survived the transfer, who knows? They've just been slapping the AKG name on all of their stuff to gain market share since, though.


----------



## samandhi

miserybeforethemusic said:


> I remember reading something about them acquiring the company and keeping the name only. Maybe an engineer or two survived the transfer, who knows? They've just been slapping the AKG name on all of their stuff to gain market share since, though.


All I know is that if AKG tuned those buds, I hate AKG.... hehe Though I can say that those buds CAN take a good amount of EQ and don't sound totally as bad as they do out of the box (not great either).


----------



## chinmie

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Man, that's about as shameless as Samsung with AKG...



might be a different story though.. as the Samsung did own AKG now, so they're not exactly rebranding, but using the tech to make their own. 
that Onkyo might be more similar to Nakamichi, which is straight up taking OEM products and rebranding it with their's

on the other news, this looks great, though the features are not up to par with the competition :
https://www.theverge.com/22312301/marshall-mode-ii-earbuds-review-features-price


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

chinmie said:


> might be a different story though.. as the Samsung did own AKG now, so they're not exactly rebranding, but using the tech to make their own.
> that Onkyo might be more similar to Nakamichi, which is straight up taking OEM products and rebranding it with their's
> 
> on the other news, this looks great, though the features are not up to par with the competition :
> https://www.theverge.com/22312301/marshall-mode-ii-earbuds-review-features-price


I can agree with the reviewer's sentiment about this release needing to be a bit more polished before release if they were going to take this long. That aesthetic is so weird. Feel like I'd find that tucked in with the spare tire in back.

Bet they'd sound great, though. Priced well enough, I think.


----------



## tinyman392

chinmie said:


> might be a different story though.. as the Samsung did own AKG now, so they're not exactly rebranding, but using the tech to make their own.
> that Onkyo might be more similar to Nakamichi, which is straight up taking OEM products and rebranding it with their's
> 
> on the other news, this looks great, though the features are not up to par with the competition :
> https://www.theverge.com/22312301/marshall-mode-ii-earbuds-review-features-price


Marshall headphone are rebranded Urbanears (both owned by Zound, Adidas headphones too).  Though I do tend to like the styling queues that Marshall and Urbanears take.


----------



## samandhi (Mar 4, 2021)

miserybeforethemusic said:


> You can try one of these:


The second one isn't bad at all, though still a bit bassy for my tastes.


chinmie said:


> might be a different story though.. as the Samsung did own AKG now, so they're not exactly rebranding, but using the tech to make their own.
> that Onkyo might be more similar to Nakamichi, which is straight up taking OEM products and rebranding it with their's
> 
> on the other news, this looks great, though the features are not up to par with the competition :
> https://www.theverge.com/22312301/marshall-mode-ii-earbuds-review-features-price


Speaking of someone else tuning, does Marshall tune their own stuff now? I still have some OG Marshall Monitor over ears, and they still have the best bass of all the headphones I have tried in all the years since, so I didn't care that they didn't tune them themselves. They need a bit of help on the high end though. They are not quite audiophile quality sound, but boy are they fun. I still listen to them even now, although the pleather coating on the headband is cracking and coming apart...


Edit: Ya' beat me to it @tinyman392


----------



## chinmie (Mar 4, 2021)

tinyman392 said:


> Marshall headphone are rebranded Urbanears (both owned by Zound, Adidas headphones too).  Though I do tend to like the styling queues that Marshall and Urbanears take.



now that i didn't know, though it does not surprise me that they do that. thanks for the info



samandhi said:


> The second one isn't bad at all, though still a bit bassy for my tastes.
> 
> Speaking of someone else tuning, does Marshall tune their own stuff now? I still have some OG Marshall Monitor over ears, and they still have the best bass of all the headphones I have tried in all the years since, so I didn't care that they didn't tune them themselves. They need a bit of help on the high end though. They are not quite audiophile quality sound, but boy are they fun. I still listen to them even now, although the pleather coating on the headband is cracking and coming apart...
> 
> ...



seeing how big and diverse their products now, i doubt they make those themselves and only cashing in on their classic amp looks.
i don't think even guitarists would jump and buy their products other than their amps, other than to have that "old stack amps" look


----------



## Luke Skywalker

miserybeforethemusic said:


> I've owned a set of Q300 for years at this point. Only upgraded them when I wanted to go with towers, so I totally get it. Those Q300 make amazing near-field monitors; shame I don't have the desk space for the stands at the moment. Those spaces are currently occupied by both of my work laptops.


Wow nice!  I’d heard great things about KEF speakers and when I saw the m3u, I figured I’d give them a try.  I’d just lost my Bose NC buds 
 and although i like their sound, my N6P’s aren’t NC

so glad I got these.  I wonder how many hours fully burns them in?  Using a Tidal white noise playlist that cycles through the frequencies


----------



## samandhi

Unrelated: WOW! Just noticed that the Marshall Monitors are still available, but I wouldn't pay $199 for them nowadays. There are just too many options that are better and cost less. It doesn't look like they have even changed the webpage for them either... haha I think IIRC that I originally bought those back in 2006 or 2007??


----------



## Luke Skywalker

I haven’t heard much talk about the new Grado‘s.  Anybody have them?  Not sure which buds to get next.  The Devialet Gemini’s sound compelling once they’re available again


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

Luke Skywalker said:


> Wow nice!  I’d heard great things about KEF speakers and when I saw the m3u, I figured I’d give them a try.  I’d just lost my Bose NC buds
> and although i like their sound, my N6P’s aren’t NC
> 
> so glad I got these.  I wonder how many hours fully burns them in?  Using a Tidal white noise playlist that cycles through the frequencies


I'm not sure we're going to see benefit from burning in these types of earbuds. They usually have at least one coating on the dynamic driver used (graphene, beryllium, random precious metals) to keep it as rigid as possible. More likely it's your ears that are getting used to the KEF's characteristics over time.


----------



## TK33

miserybeforethemusic said:


> I'm not sure we're going to see benefit from burning in these types of earbuds. They usually have at least one coating on the dynamic driver used (graphene, beryllium, random precious metals) to keep it as rigid as possible. More likely it's your ears that are getting used to the KEF's characteristics over time.


How would you compare the sound signature of the mu3 to your Q300s? I also have the old Q series and was pretty excited to see KEF throw their hat in the ring. They make great stuff.


----------



## PixelSquish

The more I read about the MT the more I am excited about them coming here on Sunday. But really, micro USB? I mean come on, USB-C should be the norm.


----------



## samandhi

PixelSquish said:


> The more I read about the MT the more I am excited about them coming here on Sunday. But really, micro USB? I mean come on, USB-C should be the norm.


The MT has USB-C not micro...


----------



## PixelSquish

samandhi said:


> The MT has USB-C not micro...


Oh that's great. The second bullet point on the Amazon product listing says "

UP TO 50 HOURS PLAYTIME - Up to 9 hours playback without recharging the Melomania Touch ear buds. Case battery holds an additional 41 hours of charge. 30 minutes to charge earbuds; 2 hours to charge the case *via micro-USB* (cable included)."


----------



## Canabuc

PixelSquish said:


> The more I read about the MT the more I am excited about them coming here on Sunday. But really, micro USB? I mean come on, USB-C should be the norm.


USB C here


----------



## samandhi

PixelSquish said:


> Oh that's great. The second bullet point on the Amazon product listing says "
> 
> UP TO 50 HOURS PLAYTIME - Up to 9 hours playback without recharging the Melomania Touch ear buds. Case battery holds an additional 41 hours of charge. 30 minutes to charge earbuds; 2 hours to charge the case *via micro-USB* (cable included)."


Looks like someone was lazy when they wrote that...


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

TK33 said:


> How would you compare the sound signature of the mu3 to your Q300s? I also have the old Q series and was pretty excited to see KEF throw their hat in the ring. They make great stuff.


Wish I could tell you, but they're sold out at the moment. I'll probably end up picking them up in the future, though.


PixelSquish said:


> The more I read about the MT the more I am excited about them coming here on Sunday. But really, micro USB? I mean come on, USB-C should be the norm.


USB-C. Doesn't have wireless charging, though. Really wish it did.


PixelSquish said:


> Oh that's great. The second bullet point on the Amazon product listing says "
> 
> UP TO 50 HOURS PLAYTIME - Up to 9 hours playback without recharging the Melomania Touch ear buds. Case battery holds an additional 41 hours of charge. 30 minutes to charge earbuds; 2 hours to charge the case *via micro-USB* (cable included)."


Hahaha oops yeah that's a typo.


----------



## Canabuc

Loving the sound on these. Makes the Sennheiser sound boring.
Bass goes lowwwww.
Mifs and highs are more exciting. Only area I think Sennheiser wind is the upper treble has a certain bite and clarity that I have yet to hear matched.

Just having an issue with the case. Using the Sennheiser tip I can't just drop it in or it won't necessarily start charging and turn off the bud. I have to wriggle it.

Sennheiser or JBL or sunny you just drop em in without a worry.
Otherwise I love em for their sound They are also nearly 15% louder than the mtw2 .
I can listen on 55% volume where similar volume would need my one turned up to 70%


----------



## samandhi

Canabuc said:


> Loving the sound on these. Makes the Sennheiser sound boring.
> Bass goes lowwwww.
> Mifs and highs are more exciting. Only area I think Sennheiser wind is the upper treble has a certain bite and clarity that I have yet to hear matched.
> 
> ...


Which ones are you talking about? The MT?


----------



## Canabuc

samandhi said:


> Which ones are you talking about? The MT?


Yes


----------



## trivik12

its interesting Qualcomm has already launched new bluetooth chips (QCC3056 and QCC515x). Previous version released year back(QCC3046 and QCC514x) are barely seen(I know about Soundpeats and Vivo but that is almost negligible compared to sheer number of TWS released almost every day. Are these chips too expensive for OEM's to use them. I dont think we have any TWS with QCC5146.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

Canabuc said:


> Loving the sound on these. Makes the Sennheiser sound boring.
> Bass goes lowwwww.
> Mifs and highs are more exciting. Only area I think Sennheiser wind is the upper treble has a certain bite and clarity that I have yet to hear matched.
> 
> ...


I find myself wanting more in the treble as well, but I realized that the MT's real strength is in its bass textures and drum impact. These get really energetic once you EQ a little bit of the bloat out of there and really let the lower mids shine, but not in a fatiguing way.

Going back to something I said earlier today about timbre-accurate sound, I'm really finding some good moments with the JBLs in recordings where I have just heard some fantastically-accurate instruments. Not always the most pleasant thing to hear, especially with overly-compressed/brickwalled recordings, but those shining moments are awesome.

Everybody's welcome to listen along, provided you have a Qobuz subscription. I'll have to work on the Spotify equivalent eventually:

http://open.qobuz.com/playlist/2377418


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

trivik12 said:


> its interesting Qualcomm has already launched new bluetooth chips (QCC3056 and QCC515x). Previous version released year back(QCC3046 and QCC514x) are barely seen(I know about Soundpeats and Vivo but that is almost negligible compared to sheer number of TWS released almost every day. Are these chips too expensive for OEM's to use them. I dont think we have any TWS with QCC5146.


Probably. I'm assuming that the first in the supply chain pecking order would be the major smartphone players. Becomes prohibitively expensive to R&D the latest tech into your product the further down that list you get.


----------



## FYLegend

It's a bit baffling that Edifier in particular seems reluctant to add volume control on their devices, maybe they're thinking "if Apple doesn't we don't have to".

Earfun Free Pro with filters removed using Samsung Galaxy Buds Large Eartips is a pretty good combination. No more crappy flange flipping and the seal is much better better. There's a thicker sound in the upper mids though it does feel like the treble is rolled off (or maybe I've been listening to filterless for too long, which has a very raw treble response) .


webvan said:


> The Tozo aren't too bad, you can't turn off ANC with the buttons once you activate it though so you have to put them back in the box to turn it off (or use the app of their clones whose name escapes me right now).
> 
> They posted a detailed review on Rtings recently.


Those would be the 20Decebel app. Some users have complained it bricked their Tozos in one way or another after updating the firmware, such as causing increased battery drain. I have the TaoTronics 94 and see an option to update the firmware but don't have to do it to use any of the features.

Can't speak for these but Tozo is supposed to have a brighter sound than the Taotronics or 20Decebel. I also loathe the battery life of the TaoTronics as once the case is low on battery you cannot power off the earbuds and they only last me about 10 hours at high volumes.

I'm still waiting for SoundPeats T2 but they still aren't available in Canada. For whatever reason you can't even import them from Amazon.com



miserybeforethemusic said:


> I remember reading something about them acquiring the company and keeping the name only. Maybe an engineer or two survived the transfer, who knows? They've just been slapping the AKG name on all of their stuff to gain market share since, though.


Well they have been aggressively pushing for the Harman IEM target tuning on the Galaxy Buds/Buds+/N400


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

FYLegend said:


> Well they have been aggressively pushing for the Harman IEM target tuning on the Galaxy Buds/Buds+/N400


Explains why there's a lot of good reviews on their SQ if that's the case. Still seems like a cash grab to me, though.


----------



## bladefd

Canabuc said:


> Loving the sound on these. Makes the Sennheiser sound boring.
> Bass goes lowwwww.
> Mifs and highs are more exciting. Only area I think Sennheiser wind is the upper treble has a certain bite and clarity that I have yet to hear matched.
> 
> ...


That has been my nuisance with the MT case too since I got them, but it's a mild nuisance. Just takes couple extra seconds and have to ensure red light is on. With the Sony/sennheiser/technics, you just throw them in and done. 

And it's usually with the right earbud and never with the left for me. Just the way it is built I guess. I'm used to it now. No biggie after 2 months


----------



## Womaz

Canabuc said:


> Loving the sound on these. Makes the Sennheiser sound boring.
> Bass goes lowwwww.
> Mifs and highs are more exciting. Only area I think Sennheiser wind is the upper treble has a certain bite and clarity that I have yet to hear matched.
> 
> ...


Stop this 😀😀😀 I am getting too hyped up now 😀 
according to DPD mine arrive today . It’s my first wireless earbud so not really sure what to expect .......but looking forward to them arriving .


----------



## Yeezybop

Is there any love for the Noble Falcon Pro's?

Trying to decide between those and the new Grado or Devialet buds.

Currently have the MTW 1 and itching to upgrade.


----------



## Canabuc

bladefd said:


> That has been my nuisance with the MT case too since I got them, but it's a mild nuisance. Just takes couple extra seconds and have to ensure red light is on. With the Sony/sennheiser/technics, you just throw them in and done.
> 
> And it's usually with the right earbud and never with the left for me. Just the way it is built I guess. I'm used to it now. No biggie after 2 months



Same seems to be the right. In fairness I am using a Sennheiser tip on it which maybe be the reason but it does not seem any taller.


----------



## Canabuc

Womaz said:


> Stop this 😀😀😀 I am getting too hyped up now 😀
> according to DPD mine arrive today . It’s my first wireless earbud so not really sure what to expect .......but looking forward to them arriving .


Hope you aren't disappointed. Take the time to charge and update the firmware and test and find the right tip wing combo for a good seal.

And EQ up the Treble some. Reduce the bass a bit too your liking too.

Did some listens last night and the Treble actually is quite good once EQ'd. Some back and forth with MTW2 and there is more energy with the MT. Kinky the highest Treble is better with sennheisers and I think that is because the mids etc are so much warmer.


----------



## Canabuc

FYLegend said:


> It's a bit baffling that Edifier in particular seems reluctant to add volume control on their devices, maybe they're thinking "if Apple doesn't we don't have to".
> 
> Earfun Free Pro with filters removed using Samsung Galaxy Buds Large Eartips is a pretty good combination. No more crappy flange flipping and the seal is much better better. There's a thicker sound in the upper mids though it does feel like the treble is rolled off (or maybe I've been listening to filterless for too long, which has a very raw treble response) .
> 
> ...



There is also a Dyplay bud using same design as the Tozo and Taotronic but I think with more controls and less boomy bass tuning.


----------



## Womaz

Canabuc said:


> Hope you aren't disappointed. Take the time to charge and update the firmware and test and find the right tip wing combo for a good seal.
> 
> And EQ up the Treble some. Reduce the bass a bit too your liking too.
> 
> Did some listens last night and the Treble actually is quite good once EQ'd. Some back and forth with MTW2 and there is more energy with the MT. Kinky the highest Treble is better with sennheisers and I think that is because the mids etc are so much warmer.


I doubt I will be disappointed . I tend to take some time to get what I want , but then I dont really change my gear that much.
I am keen to hear these though as my first wireless ear buds. Not even sure they will get a lot of use , but I do love the convenience of wireless.
I will play with the EQ for sure and I have already noted some of the other guys custom settings on here.
The tips will be interesting as I am really fussy about having a good fit......so I will play around with these. Once again thanks for your input.


----------



## Canabuc

Womaz said:


> I doubt I will be disappointed . I tend to take some time to get what I want , but then I dont really change my gear that much.
> I am keen to hear these though as my first wireless ear buds. Not even sure they will get a lot of use , but I do love the convenience of wireless.
> I will play with the EQ for sure and I have already noted some of the other guys custom settings on here.
> The tips will be interesting as I am really fussy about having a good fit......so I will play around with these. Once again thanks for your input.


I think you will enjoy too. Just temper expectations if you are coming from iem  or over ears as no tws can quite compete given limitations of Bluetooth at this point in time. For me and my old ear I am more than satisfied with the sound quality of TWS.


----------



## Luke Skywalker

miserybeforethemusic said:


> I'm not sure we're going to see benefit from burning in these types of earbuds. They usually have at least one coating on the dynamic driver used (graphene, beryllium, random precious metals) to keep it as rigid as possible. More likely it's your ears that are getting used to the KEF's characteristics over time.


Ahh I did not know there.  Hopefully I didn’t hurt them by doing that? I’ve just always heard people say they burn in their buds and headphones


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

Luke Skywalker said:


> Ahh I did not know there.  Hopefully I didn’t hurt them by doing that? I’ve just always heard people say they burn in their buds and headphones


Doubt you hurt anything in the process. I've just learned over the years that I gain nothing by putting these things on some sort of break-in bed, so now I just go straight to unboxing and enjoying.


----------



## samandhi

Luke Skywalker said:


> Ahh I did not know there.  Hopefully I didn’t hurt them by doing that? I’ve just always heard people say they burn in their buds and headphones


Nah, you won't hurt them. A lot of people don't really believe in burn in, and just listen to them, but often come back after a period of time and say how much they have changed. I am not sure myself, as I HAVE heard a difference after using them, but that could just be your brain/ears getting used to the sound they make... On the other hand, anything with moving parts tends to change over time, so........


----------



## samandhi

Womaz said:


> Stop this 😀😀😀 I am getting too hyped up now 😀
> according to DPD mine arrive today . It’s my first wireless earbud so not really sure what to expect .......but looking forward to them arriving .


If you are expecting audiophile level sound, like some of the reviews say, then you will be a bit disappointed like I was in the beginning. But, they are a very fun sound, and if it matches your type of sound signature, you will love them, because they are quite good. I would almost say that with some EQ they can match a lot of people's preferred tuning (they take EQ very well). There are a few nigling things that I myself don't like about them (the touch sensor is a bit sensitive and can be hard to get in your ears without triggering something, for instance), but the goods outweigh the bads IMO. Can't wait to hear your impressions (first impressions, and then after using them for a bit)?!


----------



## TK33

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Wish I could tell you, but they're sold out at the moment. I'll probably end up picking them up in the future, though.
> 
> USB-C. Doesn't have wireless charging, though. Really wish it did.
> 
> Hahaha oops yeah that's a typo.


 Got it.  Misread your post to mean you had them.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic (Mar 5, 2021)

Spending the day with the Earfun Free Pros and those mystery Chi-Fi tips. Even with EQ disabled, it's not a bad combo, but you can tell from the spatial cues that EQ needs some serious love. After creating a profile in Neutralizer for them, things have cleaned up a decent amount, but they're still very much a $50-ish TWS with a fun tuning. Don't expect them to resolve as much as the MTs, but they might be a good supplemental pair for someone looking for something that locks in just as easily and has a little more treble detail. The small form factor definitely helps.

Also really helps that the touch controls just work. It's nice to have every press actually register. It'll be really interesting to see how these stack up against the Edifiers.

And, as promised, here's the Spotify port for last night's playlist:


In case you don't want to scroll back and find the Qobuz link, here you go again. Updated so only 4 tracks in the playlist aren't Hi-Res:
http://open.qobuz.com/playlist/2377418


----------



## Womaz

samandhi said:


> If you are expecting audiophile level sound, like some of the reviews say, then you will be a bit disappointed like I was in the beginning. But, they are a very fun sound, and if it matches your type of sound signature, you will love them, because they are quite good. I would almost say that with some EQ they can match a lot of people's preferred tuning (they take EQ very well). There are a few nigling things that I myself don't like about them (the touch sensor is a bit sensitive and can be hard to get in your ears without triggering something, for instance), but the goods outweigh the bads IMO. Can't wait to hear your impressions (first impressions, and then after using them for a bit)?!


OK I will give my initial impression as requested. I wasn’t going to as I am no expert in headphones etc. I come on here to get advice rather than to give it to be honest

First things first the instructions are not good at all, I followed them exactly and I could not pair the earphones or connect them. Eventually I succeeded but this was time consuming and I succeeded by luck rather than the instructions provided.

I swapped the flange and tips for large and the fit was OK, pretty snug actually , at first I was pleased with this , but later realised that they do move about when I move….or even smile   

First impressions soundwise was not good if I am honest. Bass overpowering everything , muddy as hell , could not hear any treble detail at all. The EQ is A MUST! So I have boosted the treble a little and tined down the bass too and it sounds a lot better. The Balanced option in the EQ was horrendous to my ears. Muddy , cloudy not so much a veil over the music …more like a big thick bath towel 

They are a bit fiddly to get in the ears too, and I end up turning them off sometimes when doing so, although I suspect this is my mishandling of the units until I get used to them.

The big plus so far is the EQ, its excellent and very responsive , the changes are very noticeable and they are immediate. I am still to get the sound I want but I will keep trying some options .

My main issue is I am struggling to charge them , been charging over an hour now and according to the App they are not charging, ie the percentages are staying the same. Again I will have to get the manual out and see what I am doing wrong ….it certainly a VERY TIGHT fit into the case so I am not sure I am placing them in the case correctly.

I just want to stress that I bought these for convenience and occasional use when lying in the garden in the summer for example so I was not expecting them to blow my mind.

My other gear is quite good too so I feel I may be a tad spoilt in this area.

Overall I need to hear more detail than what I am hearing. I have the ER4XR and I guess this is the sound I would like to get close to ……I will keep experimenting with the treble to see if I can get closer to that sound.

Only had them in for an hour and the ears are very itchy, like uncomfortably itchy….so I will have to see how this goes. I always use Comply foam tips for better comfort but not sure how they would go with these, and I certainly would not get them in the case

It sounds like I am not that impressed, but its early days and they are a convenience buy for me, They will be used sparingly I would imagine …..but I wanted to share my first impressions.

For me there is still a huge gap between wireless and wired from what I can hear. However in the past I have found new gear takes a little bit of adjusting to so I will continue to listen and experiment with the EQ.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

Womaz said:


> I have the ER4XR and I guess this is the sound I would like to get close to


Then the UEs or JBL might be more up your alley if you're looking for something more like your Etys, but try to not compare the sound you get from a dynamic driver to one you get from a balanced armature. Sorry if I somehow missed neutrality as a requirement, but the MTs are definitely tuned more for fun than neutrality/diffuse field. I'd recommend a BA-based TWS, but I don't have enough experience with them to make an educated opinion. Maybe someone else here will.

Think I just found the tips, by the way. Come in black, white, or grey. Order up!


----------



## Womaz

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Then the UEs or JBL might be more up your alley if you're looking for something more like your Etys, but try to not compare the sound you get from a dynamic driver to one you get from a balanced armature. Sorry if I somehow missed neutrality as a requirement, but the MTs are definitely tuned more for fun than neutrality/diffuse field. I'd recommend a BA-based TWS, but I don't have enough experience with them to make an educated opinion. Maybe someone else here will.
> 
> Think I just found the tips, by the way. Come in black, white, or grey. Order up!


I will stick with these as I just dont have the time to keep swapping gear all the time. I intend to keep listening and tweaking ............thats if I can charge the left bud   .The right ear bud is at 99% and the left at 22% according to the app


----------



## bladefd

samandhi said:


> If you are expecting audiophile level sound, like some of the reviews say, then you will be a bit disappointed like I was in the beginning. But, they are a very fun sound, and if it matches your type of sound signature, you will love them, because they are quite good. I would almost say that with some EQ they can match a lot of people's preferred tuning (they take EQ very well). There are a few nigling things that I myself don't like about them (the touch sensor is a bit sensitive and can be hard to get in your ears without triggering something, for instance), but the goods outweigh the bads IMO. Can't wait to hear your impressions (first impressions, and then after using them for a bit)?!


I turned off all touch controls on mine. I guess these are no longer melomania "touch" for me 

I just don't like touch controls for some reason. I turned them off on the other buds I tested too.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

Womaz said:


> I will stick with these as I just dont have the time to keep swapping gear all the time. I intend to keep listening and tweaking ............thats if I can charge the left bud   .The right ear bud is at 99% and the left at 22% according to the app


Are you checking to make sure the LEDs on each earbud start slowly blinking orange before you close the case? I've found that it's usually either the tip or fin that's interfering. Might be worth taking off the tips first to see if they seat on the charging contacts. Fwiw, I usually drop them in the case from about an inch or two away; the magnets tend to take care of the rest, and that's using Small fins and those medium tips I just linked above, which might also help with some of the bloat you're facing.

Foam tips might help absorb some of the extra bass, but I'd be prepared to combat that reduction with EQ as it'll probably bleed over into the midrange. Last time I checked, it looked like Dekoni already had TWS-specific tips. Didn't see anything for Comply, but they might have something by now as well. Remember: this is dynamic driver bass; you can treat it to an extent, but EQ can't completely fix some design choices. Makes a lot more sense to me now why they restricted the surface area of the UEs so much; definitely helps with driver control.


----------



## Canabuc

Womaz said:


> OK I will give my initial impression as requested. I wasn’t going to as I am no expert in headphones etc. I come on here to get advice rather than to give it to be honest
> 
> First things first the instructions are not good at all, I followed them exactly and I could not pair the earphones or connect them. Eventually I succeeded but this was time consuming and I succeeded by luck rather than the instructions provided.
> 
> ...


Make sure you have updated the firmware. Connection issues not there at least for me on 1.2.3
I think the bass clouds the detail but that there is detail there and finding the right EQ settings helps bring it out.

If you want something that is less bass heavy and more detailed then you might prefer the Technics or the JBL if you still like good bass but without affecting the overall sound. And the dedicated EQ is comprehensive with bands at 32,64,125,250,500,1k,2k,4k,8k,16k.


----------



## Canabuc

Womaz said:


> I will stick with these as I just dont have the time to keep swapping gear all the time. I intend to keep listening and tweaking ............thats if I can charge the left bud   .The right ear bud is at 99% and the left at 22% according to the app


Check that the earbud is seated correctly in the case and that you are on latest firmware.


----------



## Womaz

Canabuc said:


> Check that the earbud is seated correctly in the case and that you are on latest firmware.


Yeah I updated the firmware before I started to use them.
The red light is flashing , indicating they are charging but the app still showing 22% for the left ear.
I wont be changing to another brand as I just dont have the time or inclination to do this   
As long as I can solve the charge issue I will stick with these .......like I say its early days. The EQ has helped too


----------



## Canabuc

Womaz said:


> Yeah I updated the firmware before I started to use them.
> The red light is flashing , indicating they are charging but the app still showing 22% for the left ear.
> I wont be changing to another brand as I just dont have the time or inclination to do this
> As long as I can solve the charge issue I will stick with these .......like I say its early days. The EQ has helped too



Is the light blinking red when going into case?
Also check in Bluetooth menu when you close case. If the budis still connected then it didn't shut off which means  it wasn't seated properly in the case..
These and the Technics for some reason have finicky placement in the case for me.


----------



## Womaz

bladefd said:


> I turned off all touch controls on mine. I guess these are no longer melomania "touch" for me
> 
> I just don't like touch controls for some reason. I turned them off on the other buds I tested too.


I think I will do the same


----------



## Womaz

Canabuc said:


> Is the light blinking red when going into case?
> Also check in Bluetooth menu when you close case. If the budis still connected then it didn't shut off which means  it wasn't seated properly in the case..
> These and the Technics for some reason have finicky placement in the case for me.


I dont think it started blinking red until I put it in the case. 
They are disconnected according to my BT settings.


----------



## Canabuc

Trying this setting now.
Seems to have much better detail in the upper range for me.



Nice detail in this song.


----------



## Womaz (Mar 5, 2021)

Ok now the app is saying I have updated firmware available......I updated before I started using them, but I will go through the process again

Ok I have deleted the app and reinstalling it as I was having a lot of issues. I was updating the firmware and as soon as I had done this it was asking me to do it again.
So I am starting from scratch now.
Surely I do not have to pair them every time I turn them on?


----------



## Canabuc

Womaz said:


> Ok now the app is saying I have updated firmware available......I updated before I started using them, but I will go through the process again


1.2.3 is newest


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

Canabuc said:


> Trying this setting now.
> Seems to have much better detail in the upper range for me.
> 
> 
> ...



Heh, that curve looks familiar 


Womaz said:


> Ok now the app is saying I have updated firmware available......I updated before I started using them, but I will go through the process again


Happened to me as well; one earbud had updated, but the other didn't. I ended up having to delete cache and data, reopen the software, and rerun the software update. Somehow, the app thought both buds were updated but they weren't. Yes, it's a tedious process and I'm sorry you have to deal with it.


----------



## Womaz

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Heh, that curve looks familiar
> 
> Happened to me as well; one earbud had updated, but the other didn't. I ended up having to delete cache and data, reopen the software, and rerun the software update. Somehow, the app thought both buds were updated but they weren't. Yes, it's a tedious process and I'm sorry you have to deal with it.


Yes I am having a few troubles now. The right ear bud wont connect. I have a feeling they have not paired.......


----------



## miserybeforethemusic (Mar 5, 2021)

Womaz said:


> Yes I am having a few troubles now. The right ear bud wont connect. I have a feeling they have not paired.......


And this is exactly why Cambridge started including that yellow card underneath the case inside of your packaging. Sounds like you'll have to do a manual reset. If you don't feel like pulling out the instructions, all you have to do is this:

Put the earbuds in the case and verify they make contact with the case by observing that the amber lights slowly blink on both sides
Tap and hold on both earbuds' control surface until both lights rapidly blink white. This can take up to 20 seconds
Your earbuds will go through the factory reset process. While this is happening, forget the MT's pairing on whatever connected devices you have
Once the factory reset is complete, the lights will be slowly blinking amber again.
Remove your buds from their case. They should automatically enter pairing mode.
It might take more than one reset, too. I wish I had an exact troubleshooting list I could walk you through, but I don't work for CA. If they happen to be listening, though, I wouldn't mind that fancy service script


----------



## Womaz (Mar 5, 2021)

miserybeforethemusic said:


> And this is exactly why Cambridge started including that yellow card underneath the case inside of your packaging. Sounds like you'll have to do a manual reset. If you don't feel like pulling out the instructions, all you have to do is this:
> 
> Put the earbuds in the case and verify they make contact with the case by observing that the amber lights slowly blink on both sides
> Tap and hold on both earbuds' control surface until both lights rapidly blink white. This can take up to 20 seconds
> ...


I have somehow managed to get them working again
On the plus side they sound a lot better .....but that could be as I was desperate to hear some music   
I want to keep these but if I have to go through that pairing them every time then I will get rid......just dont have time for that

I have disabled the touch settings too


----------



## PixelSquish

Yes some reviews of the MT said the touch controls were too sensitive but the pairing issues have been fixed. I hope the touch controls just take some getting used to. I find them extremely handy on my MTW2's and they work very well on those buds.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

Womaz said:


> I have somehow managed to get them working again
> On the plus side they sound a lot better .....but that could be as I was desperate to hear some music
> I want to keep these but if I have to go through that pairing them every time then I will get rid......just dont have time for that


If I had to go through that much of a hassle pairing every time, I think mine would have been used for target practice a while ago. Fingers crossed you're good. If they still act squirrely, please give the factory reset a shot.

Also, inside the box for the MTs, you'll find the CEO's direct company email. I would _highly _suggest sharing your experience with them. I got a response within about a week that wasn't just copy-pasted, so that was pretty cool. My guess is, without any real ability to send error reporting to them otherwise, they may not know about some of these issues or they need a sufficient amount of people to escalate a bin request (aka a requested "fix").


PixelSquish said:


> Yes some reviews of the MT said the touch controls were too sensitive but the pairing issues have been fixed. I hope the touch controls just take some getting used to. I find them extremely handy on my MTW2's and they work very well on those buds.


Now that I'm used to them, I think they're great...as long as I'm not using UAPP. Then again, almost none of the TWS volume controls work very well when using UAPP, so it's not isolated to the MTs.


----------



## Canabuc (Mar 5, 2021)

The trIck with the touch controls is not to touch then by accident. Very quickly I have learned to handle it annual the buds from the top and bottom of the body avoiding the touch sensor.
Can it them in and take them off or August them this way as there is a good are of surface to do so. 
I prefer the larger surface area compared to the jbl where 1/3 of time my touches don't register as I don't hit the sensor fully.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

Canabuc said:


> The truck with the touch controls is not to touch then by accident. Very quickly I have learned to handle it annual the buds from the top and bottom of the body avoiding the touch sensor.
> Can it them in and take them off or August them this way as there is a good are of surface to do so.
> I prefer the larger surface area compared to the jbl where 1/3 of time my touches don't register as I don't hit the sensor fully.


JBL's touch controls really feel like an afterthought in comparison. I suppose you could consider each one a different extreme on the spectrum. It's possible focus groups didn't go for the name "Cambridge Melomania Breath-Counts-as-a-Touch"


----------



## erockg

miserybeforethemusic said:


> JBL's touch controls really feel like an afterthought in comparison. I suppose you could consider each one a different extreme on the spectrum. It's possible focus groups didn't go for the name "Cambridge Melomania Breath-Counts-as-a-Touch"


Completely agree re: the JBL.  Similar to the Sony WF's.  You can't have volume controls AND passthrough controls with play/pause.  Dumb.  I love the JBL's but this one thing has been driving me nuts.  That and I've been getting random skips while listening to music.  As if the buds disconnect for a millisecond.  Doesn't happen with any other buds I own.


----------



## Womaz

To put them back in the case correctly I have to take the large flanges off.......is everyone else finding they have to do this?


----------



## samandhi

Womaz said:


> OK I will give my initial impression as requested. I wasn’t going to as I am no expert in headphones etc. I come on here to get advice rather than to give it to be honest
> 
> First things first the instructions are not good at all, I followed them exactly and I could not pair the earphones or connect them. Eventually I succeeded but this was time consuming and I succeeded by luck rather than the instructions provided.
> 
> ...


I felt the very same way when I first started listening to them. I am in a similar boat as you (spoiled a bit...) I come from planar headphones/IEMs and BA IEMs too. But, after finding the EQ I use, I just listened to them for a week or so, and they are sounding better to me, whether it is (the debated) burn-in, or brain/ear burn-in I do not know, but I agree with everything you noticed about these. Once you get the bass under control it does have very nice texture to it, though not as fast as something like a good BA or Planar. But, it just doesn't drown everything else out. I boost the highs and mids and subtract sub-bass (the main culprit), and boost the upper bass a bit to give it less rumble/boomy, and more thump. IMO this gives the perception that the bass is a bit tighter and faster (the way I love it). 

It's a shame about the charging issue though. I have had 0 issues with mine, as long as I verify that the slow blinking light is on both of them before I close the case. I do hope you get it all squared away, as they ARE good (better than most I have listened to thus far) for TWS, even though out of the box they are not the tuning I prefer at all. I DO agree with you, that there is still a noticeable gap between TWS and even the next quality step up, wireless. I have a pair of Hifiman Deva (bluetooth) that are REALLY close to wired sound, so I hope the TWS category will catch up pretty soon. 

One day soon, a company will do something like Hifiman has done (with their over ear phones), and create an audiophile grade TWS that is cheaper than most regular TWS. I believe this will start a trend that we will benefit from most.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

Womaz said:


> To put them back in the case correctly I have to take the large flanges off.......is everyone else finding they have to do this?


Yes! The Large flanges jut out quite a bit. The proper in-case tolerance for those is probably really small, so you might want to consider going down to a Medium and just rotating the buds a little further towards the back of the ear to keep a grip.

Now that I'm proficient with insertion/removal, it really can be a one-handed thing and I think I've stumbled across a thing or two: 

Don't go for deep insertion like you would with the Etys; try them with the tip just resting _on_ your ear canal instead and see if that doesn't help.
The larger earfins are not necessarily better for helping keep these things locked in your ear. I used to think I needed a Medium fin on all of my pairs to keep a secure fit, but was having issues with sore cartilage over time. Going down a size has eliminated that entirely and long-term comfort is massively improved. Yes, it takes getting used to.
Chances are, things are probably going to feel boomy at first, which you can tame by using the EQ to drop Bass 1 (subbass) and Bass 2 (aka bass/midbass).


----------



## samandhi (Mar 5, 2021)

miserybeforethemusic said:


> If I had to go through that much of a hassle pairing every time, I think mine would have been used for target practice a while ago. Fingers crossed you're good. If they still act squirrely, please give the factory reset a shot.
> 
> Also, inside the box for the MTs, you'll find the CEO's direct company email. I would _highly _suggest sharing your experience with them. I got a response within about a week that wasn't just copy-pasted, so that was pretty cool. My guess is, without any real ability to send error reporting to them otherwise, they may not know about some of these issues or they need a sufficient amount of people to escalate a bin request (aka a requested "fix").
> 
> Now that I'm used to them, I think they're great...as long as I'm not using UAPP. Then again, almost none of the TWS volume controls work very well when using UAPP, so it's not isolated to the MTs.


Might be your install of UAPP, as I have had no issues for over a year with UAPP (it is my go-to app for the PEQ and Tonbooster Morphit) on my DX160, even with bluetooth.



Canabuc said:


> The truck with the touch controls is not to touch then by accident. Very quickly I have learned to handle it annual the buds from the top and bottom of the body avoiding the touch sensor.
> *Can it them in and take them off or August them this way as there is a good are of surface to do so.*
> I prefer the larger surface area compared to the jbl where 1/3 of time my touches don't register as I don't hit the sensor fully.


In this case I think proof-reading is a great thing my friend. I get the main gist, but can't understand a lot of what you are trying to convey here.. hehe Did you write this from your phone? Prolly' "Auto-correct" in action..... At least it didn't put in anything too dirty... LOL

But, to your point, I do the same thing, and it was very tricky at first.... I think the lack of instant pairing has helped these, as I can normally manage to get them into my ears before they actually pair. This prevents me from hitting something by accident. Maybe they should have added a touch control to not have them turn on automatically, and you have to hold the touch pad for a time before they turn on. This would give you time to get them into your ears and comfortable before they try and pair.


Womaz said:


> To put them back in the case correctly I have to take the large flanges off.......is everyone else finding they have to do this?


I didn't have this issue when I was using the large wings... I have found the best way (for me) to put them in the case is to line them up from about half inch away from the case, then when you drop them, gravity and the magnet strength will get them where they need to be. But from what I have been reading, not everyone's case is the same, and there were issues with them seating properly in the beginning.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

samandhi said:


> Might be your install of UAPP, as I have had no issues for over a year with UAPP (it is my go-to app for the PEQ and Tonbooster Morphit) on my DX160, even with bluetooth.


Good point. Could also be because I used OnePlus Switch to migrate everything over from a Pixel 3a, so brought some gremlins over in the process. Let's see if an uninstall/reinstall helps.


----------



## samandhi

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Good point. Could also be because I used OnePlus Switch to migrate everything over from a Pixel 3a, so brought some gremlins over in the process. Let's see if an uninstall/reinstall helps.


Hope it does because UAPP and Neutron, and even the Hiby app are all top-of the line (for android) apps. There may be better out there but I have yet to find ones that sound so good and have all the features these apps have. Let us know if that helps. If it doesn't try uninstalling it then booting your phone into recovery mode and clearing your cache, and reinstalling it.


----------



## samandhi

BTW. I found this forum, that seems to have a lot of people that have had the MT since the beginning. You can read about the woes they had before FW updates fixed a lot of things here


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

samandhi said:


> Hope it does because UAPP and Neutron, and even the Hiby app are all top-of the line (for android) apps. There may be better out there but I have yet to find ones that sound so good and have all the features these apps have. Let us know if that helps. If it doesn't try uninstalling it then booting your phone into recovery mode and clearing your cache, and reinstalling it.


OnePlus restricted their options on the Recovery screen, so now you can't dump cache in Recovery Mode. Considered doing that as well. Will probably just end up doing a full wipe this weekend for the peace of mind.

Good news is my son gifted me $25 in Google Play credit. Could probably pick up both the HiBy and Neutron players and still have some spare change. Good call.


----------



## samandhi

Cheers!


----------



## Womaz

Thanks for all the help again guys. I am off to do some listening now so hoping they just work straight out of the charging case this time


----------



## samandhi

Womaz said:


> Thanks for all the help again guys. I am off to do some listening now so hoping they just work straight out of the charging case this time


Still looking forward to your thoughts after a week or more..... Enjoy!


----------



## Luke Skywalker

bladefd said:


> I turned off all touch controls on mine. I guess these are no longer melomania "touch" for me
> 
> I just don't like touch controls for some reason. I turned them off on the other buds I tested too.


Funny you mention that. I was thinking today that the KEFs have the best controls of any TWS I’ve had.

One physical button on each bud instead of some others where you need to gently touch some specific part, slide your finger around, or 5 buttons in random locations.

example: press the left button once to switch from NC, ambient, and off (and it says, “ambient...” etc).  Press and hold the left button to turn volume down 

for the right button, 1 click starts and stops music, 2 clicks goes to the next song, click and hold turns up the volume


----------



## Luke Skywalker

samandhi said:


> Hope it does because UAPP and Neutron, and even the Hiby app are all top-of the line (for android) apps. There may be better out there but I have yet to find ones that sound so good and have all the features these apps have. Let us know if that helps. If it doesn't try uninstalling it then booting your phone into recovery mode and clearing your cache, and reinstalling it.


Neutron is great on iOS too btw. Although the UI isn’t the best, it gives you a huge amount of control over things. Easily streams DSD files across a network


----------



## bronco1015

samandhi said:


> All this is with comparison between the two in mind: I can say (and I bet I'm not alone in this one) that the MT definately cannot bring out more detail than the N6Pro. That isn't the end of the story though. N6Pro has VERY weak bass. Oh it's there, and you can EQ it up, but when there is a bass heavy song playing I notice distortion in the sub-bass. There IS no mid bass to speak of, and the upper bass is recessed. While the bass on the MT is quite lovely (if you EQ it down a bit, because it is just too strong for me out of the box). It has really good sub-bass, and good mid bass, and good upper bass (these seem to have the biggest boost in sub-bass to my ears).
> 
> As for the mids and treble, the N6pro have some of the smoothest mids and best detail retrieval of TWS I have yet to hear. At first listen I thought they sounded very grainy, but found out that these are indeed pretty picky about the quality of music you feed them. They are a mid forward tuned set of TWS. I find I have to EQ down the 1k and 2k region a bit on these. The MT have a really warm and full sounding mid, but they are very recessed a lot (I find I have to EQ up the 1k and 2k regions). The treble is where these are not my favorite. You can EQ up the treble but it doesn't make them better at details, because when you do this, the treble becomes pretty thin sounding (though remember I am speaking comparatively here). Cymbals are the worst offender for this. These are not so much a V but more like a V with a broken right arm...
> 
> Overall, I would say I like the N6Pro better for rock and classical (anything I might want better detail). I like the MT better overall because they seem better matched to play just about anything, if you can live without the really good detail retrieval (they are more of a fun sound).  This is not to say the detail retrieval is horrible on these, but compared to the N6Pro they are.


okay. yeah that's tough. Because yes you're right about bass on N6P, but i feel i have other products that fill the need for that. Famous last words but i think i'm gonna hold off on the MT then unless something else wears out. I think i'd like the sound a lot, but was hoping for basicly an N6P with better bass. Thanks for your reply.


----------



## bronco1015

Canabuc said:


> Just a warning the Technics suffer a battery case drain issue not too dissimilar from the 1st generation MTW.


having owned both the 1st gen MTW and AZ70 i would say the only comparison between these 2 in my experience was that they both had battery drain issue. the technics didn't start until maybe a month or so ago for me so after 6 months, the 1st gen MTW1 was right out of the gate. if you use both regularly it isn't really an issue. Also i've not seen nearly as much on line about battery drain on the AZ70 as i have for the MTW1 whatever that's worth. Based on personal experience but also what i've seen from others, while battery drain is unacceptable on any product to a certain degree, it's natural for batteries to slowly drain after all, comparing battery drain of the AZ70 vs MTW1 is pretty exaggerated.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic (Mar 5, 2021)

miserybeforethemusic said:


> OnePlus restricted their options on the Recovery screen, so now you can't dump cache in Recovery Mode. Considered doing that as well. Will probably just end up doing a full wipe this weekend for the peace of mind.
> 
> Good news is my son gifted me $25 in Google Play credit. Could probably pick up both the HiBy and Neutron players and still have some spare change. Good call.


Looks like a full wipe took care of the gremlins for now. Volume control by phone works just fine with the MTs now Volume control's still borked, but at least pairing was effortless this time. I did learn that, if your MT factory reset is successful, one or both of the lights may not come back on after it's finished...means it's powered down and ready for immediate pairing after they get pulled out of the case. That's kinda nifty.

I'm just not looking forward to restoring all of my app logins now...man, I really need to get Titanium up and running on this thing.


----------



## Canabuc

Been doing some A/B testing with the MT. They definitely outperform the Sony.
Their soundstage and instrument situation equals the Sennheiser.

The JBL still had a bigger bass. Still gets deep but has more definition and doesn't intrude on the mids. Also the Treble detail is a bit better.

Going to be tough decision as I really like both of these. 
For those with the Cambridge Melomania touch for a while she's the ear cartilage plain go away? That ear fun is so rigid. Wish the tip of it was a bit more flexible. Hurts my ear after a while but I need it because without that fin I lose the ear seal needed to get the best sound.
The small ear fins don't work for me. Both the medium and large end up hurting. This might make them not a keeper if this can't be remedied or if over time this goes away.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic (Mar 5, 2021)

Canabuc said:


> For those with the Cambridge Melomania touch for a while she's the ear cartilage plain go away? That ear fun is so rigid. Wish the tip of it was a bit more flexible. Hurts my ear after a while but I need it because without that fin I lose the ear seal needed to get the best sound.
> The small ear fins don't work for me. Both the medium and large end up hurting. This might make them not a keeper if this can't be remedied or if over time this goes away.


I mean I'm going to tell you to either go with the small one or take a good look at where you're trying to get that fin to engage. I thought it was supposed to lock into the back corner at first, but that's what was causing my cartilage to flare up after a couple hours. I'd suggest you keep playing around with fit, maybe with the help of a mirror, and remember these don't need to be crammed in there to stay in place if the fit is right; they'll feel locked in, but not like they're pushing against anything.

Seems really counterintuitive, but the way Cambridge shows you in their instructional videos is exactly how I've managed to get consistently good fits. Just don't rotate the buds back too much.


----------



## Canabuc

I did it like the video it just seems if I turn it forward as much as they describe, the pointy end of the fin pushes directly against the  the ear cartilage. If I don't turn it as forward them it doesn't fit as secure.
Maybe I'm trusting to far forward. 
I really want these to work. I live their sound and the ambient mode was great walking the dog today.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

Canabuc said:


> I did it like the video it just seems if I turn it forward as much as they describe, the pointy end of the fin pushes directly against the  the ear cartilage. If I don't turn it as forward them it doesn't fit as secure.
> Maybe I'm trusting to far forward.
> I really want these to work. I live their sound and the ambient mode was great walking the dog today.


If you take a closer look at that picture, you can see a gap between the fin and the front end of that ear cartilage. The fin actually sits somewhere in the middle (between front and back) securely. Like you, twisting it too far forward hurts, so I try to avoid that.


----------



## Canabuc

miserybeforethemusic said:


> If you take a closer look at that picture, you can see a gap between the fin and the front end of that ear cartilage. The fin actually sits somewhere in the middle (between front and back) securely. Like you, twisting it too far forward hurts, so I try to avoid that.


Seems a bit better this way. I also am trying my magic tips from my soundcore Liberty 2pro that seem to be the only tips that make the Sony and JBL work for me and sensibly they are better on these too. They are just a tiny bit shallower so the tip of the fin floats more and supports against the cartilage instead of paying the tip against the wall of the ear cartilage if you get my meaning.
That said I would prefer not to be aware of the find at all. Maybe more I am feeling the residual irritation.
 The JBL while not as secure never caused pain.


----------



## Rizorith

I'm wondering what this thread's take is on the galaxy pro's? I saw a bit about them a few months back and then nothing. I got a pair to go with my android phone (pixel 3) and PC, and I kinda like them, but they are a bit fatiguing to my ears and like many others don't fit well. The sound itself is good though, although sometimes the treble can be a bit too much. I had the sony wf-xsm3's for a while but didn't like the sound as much and had connection issues.

I'll likely return, but I'm unsure what to try next. I'm no audiophile, but the biggest single attribute I want is good sound, assuming they meet some minimum requirements. For me this is, in no particular order:

1. Good solid connection with my phone/PC
2. ANC (doesn't have to be top notch but it is important to me)
3. Hear through ie I want to be able to change a setting so I can talk to others without taking the iem's out. I love how on the samsung, if I talk it automatically goes to that mode.
4. Decently good mic - just enough for some calls and occasional webcam use.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

Canabuc said:


> Seems a bit better this way. I also am trying my magic tips from my soundcore Liberty 2pro that seem to be the only tips that make the Sony and JBL work for me and sensibly they are better on these too. They are just a tiny bit shallower so the tip of the fin floats more and supports against the cartilage instead of paying the tip against the wall of the ear cartilage if you get my meaning.
> That said I would prefer not to be aware of the find at all. Maybe more I am feeling the residual irritation.
> The JBL while not as secure never caused pain.


I did find and link those Chi-Fi ones a few pages back. Might be worth considering, but it's AE...obv won't show up tomorrow via Prime.

It's very likely you're getting fatigued from messing around with a new pair so much. Have any over-ears you can take a break with?


Rizorith said:


> I'm wondering what this thread's take is on the galaxy pro's? I saw a bit about them a few months back and then nothing. I got a pair to go with my android phone (pixel 3) and PC, and I kinda like them, but they are a bit fatiguing to my ears and like many others don't fit well. The sound itself is good though, although sometimes the treble can be a bit too much. I had the sony wf-xsm3's for a while but didn't like the sound as much and had connection issues.
> 
> I'll likely return, but I'm unsure what to try next. I'm no audiophile, but the biggest single attribute I want is good sound, assuming they meet some minimum requirements. For me this is, in no particular order:
> 
> ...


I'm in a very anti-Samsung camp after one of their Galaxy S4s tried to burn my house down. Wouldn't have been such a big deal if Samsung didn't try to outright deny it, all the way up the corporate ladder, then had that rash of issues about a year later. Long story short, Samsung's out for me no matter how good they are. It's a principle thing.

Based on the remainder of your requirements, the best option's going to be the Jabra 85t simply off Requirement 1 alone. That combined with the Jabra Link 380 provides a significant boost in both audio quality for general listening as well as call quality during all these work-from-home meetings. ANC is plenty robust, HearThrough works great, and I think I covered the mic well enough.

Pro tip: Look for the refurbished models on Jabra's Ebay page. They still have the Elite Active 75t for under $100, so you could reasonably apply that savings towards the Link (which I had to get from their website directly). With coupon, pretty sure I paid about $130 for those 85t. At that price, I can't complain about a dang thing.


----------



## Canabuc

Rizorith said:


> I'm wondering what this thread's take is on the galaxy pro's? I saw a bit about them a few months back and then nothing. I got a pair to go with my android phone (pixel 3) and PC, and I kinda like them, but they are a bit fatiguing to my ears and like many others don't fit well. The sound itself is good though, although sometimes the treble can be a bit too much. I had the sony wf-xsm3's for a while but didn't like the sound as much and had connection issues.
> 
> I'll likely return, but I'm unsure what to try next. I'm no audiophile, but the biggest single attribute I want is good sound, assuming they meet some minimum requirements. For me this is, in no particular order:
> 
> ...



If AnC is important in any way then Jabra,Sony,Bose would be top 3 choices

If audio sound with ANC is important then Sennheiser momentum 2 true wireless would be best option.

If you are on a budget tronsmart Apollo bold has quite good ANC for about 100$


----------



## samandhi

bronco1015 said:


> okay. yeah that's tough. Because yes you're right about bass on N6P, but i feel i have other products that fill the need for that. Famous last words but i think i'm gonna hold off on the MT then unless something else wears out. I think i'd like the sound a lot, but was hoping for basicly an N6P with better bass. Thanks for your reply.


If I could make a suggestion?! If you like the N6Pro sound but want better bass, then maybe you should try the Hifiman TWS600. They do in fact have much better bass. It is similar in that it is not totally in your face, but it is much fuller and has some texture to it. They are tuned to be mid forward just like the N6Pro, and they have great detail retrieval. Granted they are AAC or SBC (no AptX), but I can't really hear the difference on these. I think they did the codecs right. The big difference, besides the bass, is that the mids are actually a bit too forwards. I EQ down the 1k and 2k region a bit further than I do with the N6Pro (but you may like them as is). The other thing that makes them attractive is that they are only $50, so you really can't lose. 

I would say that those two are very similar in tuning, but the Hifiman is actually a bit cleaner overall, just a bit shouty in the upper mid/lower treble, but certainly not sibilant at all. I believe they do burn-in (or your brain gets used it) and tone down a bit, but if you can't handle it, then just EQ that region down about 3 or 4 db. 

These are some of the best fitting TWS I have, and I love the physical button (which is not TOO stiff or TOO soft). I have worn these all day at work and not a single hot-spot. Granted, I ditched the stock tips (which weren't bad per se') for the Final E tips (the regular ones), and they are even more comfortable for me. They also fit into the case with these (and I suspect any stock IEM tips) really well. 

Keep in mind that when I say better bass, it is not boomy, nor is it huge amounts in quantity, but it is the quality. It DOES have more quantity too, but it is not all sub-bass, and it is much better controlled. There is good mid and upper bass too. I can hear the snares and all other drums much better on these (which is pretty much a prerequisite nowadays for me, because while I do like some synth bass, I really love analog or real instruments that make those sounds). I wouldn't classify the bass as fast and punchy as planars or even really good dynamics, but for a TWS it is almost an "audiophile" type of bass in its quality.

Anyhow just a suggestion if you like the N6Pro sound!


----------



## samandhi

Canabuc said:


> Seems a bit better this way. I also am trying my magic tips from my soundcore Liberty 2pro that seem to be the only tips that make the Sony and JBL work for me and sensibly they are better on these too. They are just a tiny bit shallower so the tip of the fin floats more and supports against the cartilage instead of paying the tip against the wall of the ear cartilage if you get my meaning.
> That said I would prefer not to be aware of the find at all. Maybe more I am feeling the residual irritation.
> The JBL while not as secure never caused pain.


Yeah, even with the large selection of tips/wings I also found these to be hard to get a good fit. I ended up using the Spinfit CP360, and as of today, I have taken the wings out. I haven't had time to test them for a day or more yet, but even the small ones had a bit of a hot-spot (though not as big as the medium and large ones). Maybe my skin doesn't like the material used or something, because there was not really any pressure that would indicate they might hurt after a while.  Hope you get them to your liking, because it would a shame if you had to get rid of them just because you can't get them stuffed in your ears comfortably....


----------



## samandhi (Mar 5, 2021)

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Looks like a full wipe took care of the gremlins for now. Volume control by phone works just fine with the MTs now Volume control's still borked, but at least pairing was effortless this time. I did learn that, if your MT factory reset is successful, one or both of the lights may not come back on after it's finished...means it's powered down and ready for immediate pairing after they get pulled out of the case. That's kinda nifty.
> 
> I'm just not looking forward to restoring all of my app logins now...man, I really need to get Titanium up and running on this thing.


I just thought of this, because I had issues with this when I first started using my Deva. Did you try disabling absolute volume in developers options? Many BT devices aren't compatible with this, and I believe it is enabled by default on phones. Or enabling it if it is disabled?!


----------



## Canabuc (Mar 5, 2021)

samandhi said:


> Yeah, even with the large selection of tips/wings I also found these to be hard to get a good fit. I ended up using the Spinfit CP360, and as of today, I have taken the wings out. I haven't had time to test them for a day or more yet, but even the small ones had a bit of a hot-spot (though not as big as the medium and large ones). Maybe my skin doesn't like the material used or something, because there was not really any pressure that would indicate they might hurt after a while.  Hope you get them to your liking, because it would a shame if you had to get rid of them just because you can't get them stuffed in your ears comfortably....



Ironically my most comfortable fitting tws right now are the Fiil t1pro.
JBL comfortable but not as secure.
Oddly the Sony are doing well in that regard and at the price I paid and their great ANC I might just keep them


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

samandhi said:


> I just thought of this, because I had issues with this when I first started using my Deva. Did you try disabling absolute volume in developers options? Many BT devices aren't compatible with this, and I believe it is enabled by default on phones. Or enabling it if it is disabled?!


Thanks! Box was called "Disable Absolute Volume" and, by default, was unchecked. It is now checked. I'll let you know if that works.


----------



## samandhi

Canabuc said:


> Access idly my must comfortable firing tws right now are the Fiil t1pro.
> JBL comfortable but not as secure.
> Oddly the Sony are doing well in that regard and at the price I paid and their great ANC I might just keep them


Just curious, why do you find that odd? Are they known to not be comfortable or secure?


----------



## Canabuc

https://www.gizguide.com/2021/03/qualcomm-announces-snapdragon-sound.html?m=1


----------



## Canabuc

samandhi said:


> Just curious, why do you find that odd? Are they known to not be comfortable or secure?


Well the Sony if you read are always considered poor fitting easy to fall out.... With the right tips they seem very secure and while they are heavier so I notice them in my ears there is never discomfort and can wear comfortably for a long time.
I am having such a hard time finding a daily driver earbud that I can use for most activities.

If I can get the MT to fit comfortably then they have great sound transparency and a secure fit for exercise. Not ready to give up. Just need to rest my bruised ears.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

Canabuc said:


> https://www.gizguide.com/2021/03/qualcomm-announces-snapdragon-sound.html?m=1


That sounds really promising. Wonder how Qualcomm could mess this one up?


> In the same press release, Qualcomm says that Xiaomi and Audio Technica will be the first customers of the new certification.


Oh.


----------



## Devodonaldson

vladzakhar said:


> I would disagree on Noble Falcons. I think, they have the best sound out of all on your list. At least resolution and sound stage. I have Grados on order. Will see if they will beat it.


I'm with you on this. Love my Falcon pros. At first with the stock tips the treble har far too much bite for me, but that is actually a good thing for tws. Airh final audio type e tips, the treble gets reduced to what I would consider normal levels with detail. Treble is the biggest issue with tws, due to codec and freq response. It's the upper registers that lose the most information as they are higher on the freq spectrum. I almost feel as if I don't miss much detail with the falcon pro and final e tips. They are awesome. Ambient mode works well enough as I don't have to take them off, and passive cancelation is good with the deep fit. Aptx adaptive works great for gaming with an aptx ll adapter and my Switch. These are great musical iems. Best I've heard to date. Haven't heard Grado, but like them better than Sennheiser


----------



## DigDub

New update available for galaxy buds live.


----------



## FYLegend

Canabuc said:


> https://www.gizguide.com/2021/03/qualcomm-announces-snapdragon-sound.html?m=1


Seems like more proprietary jumble to me, where's Multipoint support?  Maybe I got too many duds but so far QCC products have failed to impress me outside of good connectivity and several of them had channel imbalance.


----------



## Kuli

Canabuc said:


> Just a warning the Technics suffer a battery case drain issue not too dissimilar from the 1st generation MTW.


Not in my experience. Have had them for several months.


----------



## bronco1015

samandhi said:


> If I could make a suggestion?! If you like the N6Pro sound but want better bass, then maybe you should try the Hifiman TWS600. They do in fact have much better bass. It is similar in that it is not totally in your face, but it is much fuller and has some texture to it. They are tuned to be mid forward just like the N6Pro, and they have great detail retrieval. Granted they are AAC or SBC (no AptX), but I can't really hear the difference on these. I think they did the codecs right. The big difference, besides the bass, is that the mids are actually a bit too forwards. I EQ down the 1k and 2k region a bit further than I do with the N6Pro (but you may like them as is). The other thing that makes them attractive is that they are only $50, so you really can't lose.
> 
> I would say that those two are very similar in tuning, but the Hifiman is actually a bit cleaner overall, just a bit shouty in the upper mid/lower treble, but certainly not sibilant at all. I believe they do burn-in (or your brain gets used it) and tone down a bit, but if you can't handle it, then just EQ that region down about 3 or 4 db.
> 
> ...


Thank you for that suggestion, for that price it can't hurt. And great descriptions. i'm not after boomy bass but fuller and more texture are exactly what i'm after.


----------



## vladzakhar

Devodonaldson said:


> I'm with you on this. Love my Falcon pros. At first with the stock tips the treble har far too much bite for me, but that is actually a good thing for tws. Airh final audio type e tips, the treble gets reduced to what I would consider normal levels with detail. Treble is the biggest issue with tws, due to codec and freq response. It's the upper registers that lose the most information as they are higher on the freq spectrum. I almost feel as if I don't miss much detail with the falcon pro and final e tips. They are awesome. Ambient mode works well enough as I don't have to take them off, and passive cancelation is good with the deep fit. Aptx adaptive works great for gaming with an aptx ll adapter and my Switch. These are great musical iems. Best I've heard to date. Haven't heard Grado, but like them better than Sennheiser


Glad you like them too. I got the Grados and returned them the same day. The Falcons sound much better. Now, out of all top tier, I tried everything except UE and Hifiman
TWS and nothing sounds better to my ears when Noble Falcon pros.


----------



## Dobrescu George

Wow, this thread has 2018 pages!!

I want to contribute a bit, and add my review of the Hiby WH3, an IEM with a really good sonic quality`

Made by the software / DAP designer @HiByMusic , this one has a ton of detail, and a nice build quality. 

Also pretty much sticks it to apple airpods pro, which I also had time to compare with  

https://www.audiophile-heaven.com/2021/03/hiby-wh3-tws-iems-better-than-the-airpods.html


----------



## Canabuc

bronco1015 said:


> Thank you for that suggestion, for that price it can't hurt. And great descriptions. i'm not after boomy bass but fuller and more texture are exactly what i'm after.



JBL club pro plus


----------



## Linus Jian

vladzakhar said:


> Glad you like them too. I got the Grados and returned them the same day. The Falcons sound much better. Now, out of all top tier, I tried everything except UE and Hifiman
> TWS and nothing sounds better to my ears when Noble Falcon pros.


Kef mu3? Devialet Gemini? Nuarl N10pro?


----------



## Robius

Another Aptx adaptive tws from Redmi: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005002224976522.html


----------



## vladzakhar

Linus Jian said:


> Kef mu3? Devialet Gemini? Nuarl N10pro?


Yes, you are right. I didn't try KEF and Nuarl N10pro. They not available in US yet. Tried Gemini, they are good. But all of them has single dynamic driver, if I remember correctly,  and don't have this sweet treble extension, resolution and sound stage which armature drivers of Falcons can reproduce. Or maybe, I am just the big fan of hybrids.


----------



## Canabuc

vladzakhar said:


> Yes, you are right. I didn't try KEF and Nuarl N10pro. They not available in US yet. Tried Gemini, they are good. But all of them has single dynamic driver, if I remember correctly,  and don't have this sweet treble extension, resolution and sound stage which armature drivers of Falcons can reproduce. Or maybe, I am just the big fan of hybrids.



Galaxy bud pro have 2 drivers and great treble extension. I just couldn't get a good fit but a worthy listen of you like a nice crisp clean high end.


----------



## Womaz

Ok my second day with the Melomania so thought I would share a few observations.
Overall I really like these, they are much better than I could have anticipated.
I did a firmware update ( I thought I had already done this) and I am not sure if that has brought the sound improvements from yesterday. It could also be the EQ. The EQ is not that comprehensive but that suits me and I like the results I get as opposed to the flat Balanced sound they arrive with.
Comfort ?? well its early days but this could be an issue for me. I have tried the various fins and Tips and they can sometimes give me a bit of pain. This is wearing them for say 90 minutes. I am unlikely to ever wear them for longer than this so it may not be such a big thing........we will see 

So I love the sound. I am using EQ and its still not perfect as I would like the vocals to be a bit more prominent, and also they can be a tad bright at times, so I am still experimenting.

The biggest downside for me is having to remove the fins to be able to fit them in the charging case. I may be being picky and fussy but i find this laborious. I want convenience and this to me is not convenient.

Overall though as long as I can combat the ear pain then these are a good choice I think. The sound quality is much better than I expected.


----------



## bronco1015 (Mar 6, 2021)

Womaz said:


> Ok my second day with the Melomania so thought I would share a few observations.
> Overall I really like these, they are much better than I could have anticipated.
> I did a firmware update ( I thought I had already done this) and I am not sure if that has brought the sound improvements from yesterday. It could also be the EQ. The EQ is not that comprehensive but that suits me and I like the results I get as opposed to the flat Balanced sound they arrive with.
> Comfort ?? well its early days but this could be an issue for me. I have tried the various fins and Tips and they can sometimes give me a bit of pain. This is wearing them for say 90 minutes. I am unlikely to ever wear them for longer than this so it may not be such a big thing........we will see
> ...


Someone suggested i think it was @miserybeforethemusic using a smaller fin. How do the medium fins fit you? Someone else mentioned the larger fins fit in the case better as well. 


Canabuc said:


> JBL club pro plus


if the ANC isn't that great and they're 4 times as much with no aptx idk. Almost bought them last week but for that price i can get the MT and TWS600.


----------



## paddyberger

I have some L2Ps and love them. I’d like a cheap pair of TWS for listening to podcasts in the bath!

Any recommendations? Thanks.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

paddyberger said:


> I have some L2Ps and love them. I’d like a cheap pair of TWS for listening to podcasts in the bath!
> 
> Any recommendations? Thanks.


Earbud-style or in-ear?


----------



## turbobb

paddyberger said:


> I have some L2Ps and love them. I’d like a cheap pair of TWS for listening to podcasts in the bath!
> 
> Any recommendations? Thanks.


I've been eyeing these as cheap IPX7 beaters but I just don't need them:
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08R3PRT15

Up until yesterday, they were 50% off but today it's only 40% (still for $15 - these might be worth a shot and the IPX7 gives some assurance they'll survive a dip in case they fall out - I've used various IPX7 rated TWS in the shower without any issues).


----------



## paddyberger

Don’t mind really, preferably something that won’t fall out. Don’t want to wear my good ones just in case.


----------



## turbobb

@paddyberger - sorry, just noticed your location, they're going for £18.99 on Amazon UK not quite the bargain they are for US version:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Bluetooth-Headphones-RIENOK-Earphones-Waterproof/dp/B08R3PRT15


----------



## paddyberger

turbobb said:


> @paddyberger - sorry, just noticed your location, they're going for £18.99 on Amazon UK not quite the bargain they are for US version:
> https://www.amazon.co.uk/Bluetooth-Headphones-RIENOK-Earphones-Waterproof/dp/B08R3PRT15


They look ideal, thank you my friend.


----------



## bladefd

vladzakhar said:


> Yes, you are right. I didn't try KEF and Nuarl N10pro. They not available in US yet. Tried Gemini, they are good. But all of them has single dynamic driver, if I remember correctly,  and don't have this sweet treble extension, resolution and sound stage which armature drivers of Falcons can reproduce. Or maybe, I am just the big fan of hybrids.


Falcons are tough to get in USA though - they are not on amazon. Only on their company website and if you have to return them, they have high restocking fee and return fees. Could be very expensive if you don't like them for any reason.


----------



## bladefd (Mar 6, 2021)

Womaz said:


> Ok my second day with the Melomania so thought I would share a few observations.
> Overall I really like these, they are much better than I could have anticipated.
> I did a firmware update ( I thought I had already done this) and I am not sure if that has brought the sound improvements from yesterday. It could also be the EQ. The EQ is not that comprehensive but that suits me and I like the results I get as opposed to the flat Balanced sound they arrive with.
> Comfort ?? well its early days but this could be an issue for me. I have tried the various fins and Tips and they can sometimes give me a bit of pain. This is wearing them for say 90 minutes. I am unlikely to ever wear them for longer than this so it may not be such a big thing........we will see
> ...


Do you require the fins?? You can try without fins. If you plan on exercising or something with them though then you might need the fins. I find them much more comfortable without the fins (not that I tried the fins for more than 2 days to get used to them).

Also, this might be a stupid question (I apologize) but did you put the left fin on the left bud and right fin on the right bud? When I initially got them and was testing the fins, I didn't realize the side mattered so I put them on opposite sides.


----------



## Canabuc (Mar 6, 2021)

Womaz said:


> Ok my second day with the Melomania so thought I would share a few observations.
> Overall I really like these, they are much better than I could have anticipated.
> I did a firmware update ( I thought I had already done this) and I am not sure if that has brought the sound improvements from yesterday. It could also be the EQ. The EQ is not that comprehensive but that suits me and I like the results I get as opposed to the flat Balanced sound they arrive with.
> Comfort ?? well its early days but this could be an issue for me. I have tried the various fins and Tips and they can sometimes give me a bit of pain. This is wearing them for say 90 minutes. I am unlikely to ever wear them for longer than this so it may not be such a big thing........we will see
> ...



Make sure the fins are on correctly on the buds. There is a notch on the buds. The rubber has a groove that this notch fits into. You shouldn't have an issue fitting them in the case even with the largest wings.


----------



## Canabuc

bronco1015 said:


> Someone suggested i think it was @miserybeforethemusic using a smaller fin. How do the medium fins fit you? Someone else mentioned the larger fins fit in the case better as well.
> 
> if the ANC isn't that great and they're 4 times as much with no aptx idk. Almost bought them last week but for that price i can get the MT and TWS600.


I paid same order for the JBL as the MT.
So for someone looking for right impactful bass looking for one bud. JBL has a lot to offer sound and feature wise.


----------



## vladzakhar

bladefd said:


> Falcons are tough to get in USA though - they are not on amazon. Only on their company website and if you have to return them, they have high restocking fee and return fees. Could be very expensive if you don't like them for any reason.


You can get them from Audio46 with 30 day return policy.


----------



## dweaver (Mar 6, 2021)

I avoided buying the WF-1000XM3 but was finally lured into a pair with the latest discounted sale price. I also own the AZ70 which I also really like. But I have to admit the Sony sounds better to my ears most of the time as I do prefer their warm tilt and lower noise floor.

But I did play with tips a lot. As of right now I am actually using the stock large silicone tip as it has the most stable fit so I can run with them. Second place goes to the true Sony hybrid tips which are more comfy but slightly less stable.

I do find them slightly more quirky than the AZ70. They have more more features which is great but those features add enough complexity that sometimes they are glitchy.

I also find they will start to have weird sound glitches (stutters) which are annoying BUT this happens with all my TWS and even some non TWS BT products and is a product of 2 many BT products and connections (smartwatch) and car. The thing is the issue seems a bit worse on the WF1000XM3 than the AZ70 or my other TW products. Here is the good news... If I restart my phone the issue is resolved for several days on all my BT products including these. But it is definitely annoying when it happens and has had me almost return them for a refund.


----------



## turbobb (Mar 6, 2021)

Finally got to test the 85t w/Jabra Link (both 370 and 380) but can't figure out how to enable Stereo audio quality w/the mics on (I've installed the Jabra Direct app and ensured all FW are updated). Under Win10 Sound Settings I have set the output and input device as Jabra Link and when I listen to music, it plays it only in mono mode. Once I set input to anything but the Jabra Link then I get back Stereo mode (but then it defeats the purpose of having an all-in-one solution via the 85t). Anyone have this working properly?


----------



## elliottjoe2809 (Mar 6, 2021)

How are the Sabbat E12 Ultras? I saw a pair used for $23 and was curious how they were since I saw them on amazon for like $80. Since I can get them pretty cheap how do they compared to stuff under say.............$50? Never owned a wireless iem before so this would be my first and havent researched them to much yet. So if these arent good im open to suggestions. These really just stood out due to the price and the fact it has wireless charging(not exactly super important but would be give me a excuse to use the wireless charger I have lying around and dont actually use).

Music I tend to listen to would be classical, kpop, jpop, rock, metal, rap, country, and really any other genre. My tracks tend to be more more female vocal heavy as well.


----------



## PixelSquish

The Technics just got here. They came with a 10% charge. The JBL and Senns both came with at least 50% charge. So they are charging away - there is also a firmware update available so will be testing them out in a little bit once they charge for an hour.


----------



## MasterDomino

miserybeforethemusic said:


> aptX Adaptive, IP56-rated, cVc microphones, 12/40 hours? Might be worth it to just play around with these suckers. Not too versed on Edifier's sound signature anyway, so I'll guinea pig this one. Considering they're basically the same price as the regular TWS1, gives me a chance to get a TWS1 for the daughter (in pink, of course) and a TWS1 Pro (in "white") for myself. I'll definitely give feedback once they're in my hands.
> 
> Only place I could find for the TWS1 Pro was at Edifier's store on Ali, though. Not even their US website had a product page for them.


What ive read here on forum is that it seems like the tws1 are worse than x3 so i would if you dont worry about color get your daughter an x3 but if shes not an audiophile it might not really matter for her, i had an x3 and honestly its been one of my favourite headsets, thought about getting tws1 pro cuz i has technological advancment over x3 but ill guess ill wait for your review


----------



## Womaz

Canabuc said:


> Name sure the funds are aware correctly on the buds. There is a notch on the buds. The rubber has a groove that this notch fits into. You shouldn't have an issue fitting them in the case even with the largest wings.


Yeah they are fitted correctly , I will keep trying to get them in The case . Apparently a few have this issue


----------



## Womaz

bladefd said:


> Do you require the fins?? You can try without fins. If you plan on exercising or something with them though then you might need the fins. I find them much more comfortable without the fins (not that I tried the fins for more than 2 days to get used to them).
> 
> Also, this might be a stupid question (I apologize) but did you put the left fin on the left bud and right fin on the right bud? When I initially got them and was testing the fins, I didn't realize the side mattered so I put them on opposite sides.


Tried them without the fins but they were far too loose. 
I did try the medium fins, but I am going to try them again


----------



## PixelSquish

The Technics charged fast, updated the firmware and been listening to them for the last half hour. Very initial impressions - definitely not as bassy as the Senns, but the bass boost does help. I have to listen to these at 100% volume and I feel they are a smidge lower in volume than the MTW2's, which is disappointing.

ANC is much better than the MTW2, it was impressive, not only completely drowned out my HVAC, but also the talk radio playing in the background. The Touch controls are pretty customizable so I have them set up my way. I wish the buds would beep with each successful touch like the Senns, but touches work well so just going to have to get used to that. When turning on Ambient mode, the music doesn't automatically pause and there is no setting to adjust that. Disappointing. You have to pause the music, then turn on Ambient mode if you want to really hear what is going on around you or talk to someone. Also, no ability for the music to stop automatically when a bud is removed from your ear. Too bad, I use that a lot. 

Sound overall is very pleasant though. Didn't have that initial wow factor the MTW2 gave me when first listening to them but it is good, going to listen to a lot more music to see where they shine.


----------



## PixelSquish

PixelSquish said:


> The Technics charged fast, updated the firmware and been listening to them for the last half hour. Very initial impressions - definitely not as bassy as the Senns, but the bass boost does help. I have to listen to these at 100% volume and I feel they are a smidge lower in volume than the MTW2's, which is disappointing.
> 
> ANC is much better than the MTW2, it was impressive, not only completely drowned out my HVAC, but also the talk radio playing in the background. The Touch controls are pretty customizable so I have them set up my way. I wish the buds would beep with each successful touch like the Senns, but touches work well so just going to have to get used to that. When turning on Ambient mode, the music doesn't automatically pause and there is no setting to adjust that. Disappointing. You have to pause the music, then turn on Ambient mode if you want to really hear what is going on around you or talk to someone. Also, no ability for the music to stop automatically when a bud is removed from your ear. Too bad, I use that a lot.
> 
> Sound overall is very pleasant though. Didn't have that initial wow factor the MTW2 gave me when first listening to them but it is good, going to listen to a lot more music to see where they shine.


I think the overall volume is going to be a big issue with the Technics. I just switched to the Senn's mid-track and they are noticeably louder. Using a Google Pixel 5.


----------



## KPzypher

PixelSquish said:


> The Technics charged fast, updated the firmware and been listening to them for the last half hour. Very initial impressions - definitely not as bassy as the Senns, but the bass boost does help. I have to listen to these at 100% volume and I feel they are a smidge lower in volume than the MTW2's, which is disappointing.
> 
> ANC is much better than the MTW2, it was impressive, not only completely drowned out my HVAC, but also the talk radio playing in the background. The Touch controls are pretty customizable so I have them set up my way. I wish the buds would beep with each successful touch like the Senns, but touches work well so just going to have to get used to that. When turning on Ambient mode, the music doesn't automatically pause and there is no setting to adjust that. Disappointing. You have to pause the music, then turn on Ambient mode if you want to really hear what is going on around you or talk to someone. Also, no ability for the music to stop automatically when a bud is removed from your ear. Too bad, I use that a lot.
> 
> Sound overall is very pleasant though. Didn't have that initial wow factor the MTW2 gave me when first listening to them but it is good, going to listen to a lot more music to see where they shine.


Besides the Technics being uncomfortable to wear, every time I open the case, the battery is completed drained.  These are terrible.


----------



## Canabuc

PixelSquish said:


> I think the overall volume is going to be a big issue with the Technics. I just switched to the Senn's mid-track and they are noticeably louder. Using a Google Pixel 5.


And I find the Sennheiser volume is low. The Sony,MT and JBL are much louder.


----------



## Canabuc

KPzypher said:


> Besides the Technics being uncomfortable to wear, every time I open the case, the battery is completed drained.  These are terrible.


I found the buds often didn’t charge when out in the case and I had to fiddle around with them. Between that the loose fit low volume and lack of bass they just didn’t seem ready to be competing with the likes of the Sony Sennheiser or jabra Jbl.....


----------



## bronco1015

Canabuc said:


> I paid same order for the JBL as the MT.
> So for someone looking for right impactful bass looking for one bud. JBL has a lot to offer sound and feature wise.


they're showing $200 USD on Amazon for me which is why i phrased it that way.


----------



## PixelSquish

The Technics fit me great, it's just literally a low volume problem. If they were as loud or a bit louder than the Senns, I also think the sound would have more impact too because the SQ seems to be there. Oh well. 

The JBL Club Pro Plus had great sound but the touch controls were practically useless (not to mention barely customizable but didn't matter since the touch barely functioned), the ANC lowered the volume too much when turned on so that was useless also. 

I hope the MT really shine when they get here, too bad about no ANC though.


----------



## Bobbetybob

miserybeforethemusic said:


> aptX Adaptive, IP56-rated, cVc microphones, 12/40 hours? Might be worth it to just play around with these suckers. Not too versed on Edifier's sound signature anyway, so I'll guinea pig this one. Considering they're basically the same price as the regular TWS1, gives me a chance to get a TWS1 for the daughter (in pink, of course) and a TWS1 Pro (in "white") for myself. I'll definitely give feedback once they're in my hands.
> 
> Only place I could find for the TWS1 Pro was at Edifier's store on Ali, though. Not even their US website had a product page for them.


Have a look and see if you can find the Edifier X3 TO-U, they're a colourful version of the X3 that comes in pink or blue. The X3 got better reviews than the TWS1 and I still use it as my ultra portable set as the case is really nice and small.


----------



## dweaver (Mar 6, 2021)

The AZ70 fit me very comfortably but I am using Sony hybrids vs their own tips.

I find I have to check to make sure they are lit up when I out them in the case. But have not had serious issues with the case not staying charged that other have had.

Since I have the Sony's I think I am going to charge the AZ70 and then let them site for 2 weeks. And then see if the case has lost charge so I can say for certain one way or another if my pair suffers from this issue.

I rarely listen to my gear at more than 50% volume so I am not a good person to look at when it comes to loudness in an IEM.


----------



## bladefd

PixelSquish said:


> The Technics fit me great, it's just literally a low volume problem. If they were as loud or a bit louder than the Senns, I also think the sound would have more impact too because the SQ seems to be there. Oh well.
> 
> The JBL Club Pro Plus had great sound but the touch controls were practically useless (not to mention barely customizable but didn't matter since the touch barely functioned), the ANC lowered the volume too much when turned on so that was useless also.
> 
> I hope the MT really shine when they get here, too bad about no ANC though.


Yeah, MT will be louder, but I'm not sure if it's as loud as the MTW2. It doesn't affect me much because I listen at night when I'm the only one awake - no distractions. Besides, I don't like to listen to my music very loud. My ears are pretty sensitive and they actually hurt if I pump up the volume too much. Same goes with loud music at people's parties & weddings - it drives me nuts not being able to hear myself breathe haha. But most people are opposite of me in that manner.

Regardless, it's worth a shot.


----------



## Canabuc

bronco1015 said:


> they're showing $200 USD on Amazon for me which is why i phrased it that way.


They often go on sale for about 160 to 180.


----------



## Canabuc

bladefd said:


> Yeah, MT will be louder, but I'm not sure if it's as loud as the MTW2. It doesn't affect me much because I listen at night when I'm the only one awake - no distractions. Besides, I don't like to listen to my music very loud. My ears are pretty sensitive and they actually hurt if I pump up the volume too much. Same goes with loud music at people's parties & weddings - it drives me nuts not being able to hear myself breathe haha. But most people are opposite of me in that manner.
> 
> Regardless, it's worth a shot.



For me my night time listening is usually at 45-50%.
Daytime listening 60-70%
Working out or busy environment 70-80%

Sennheiser are much quieter than the MT and definitely less than the Sony and slightly less than the JBL.
If I use the above settings as my standard, I would reduce by 5% using the MT and raise by 10% the MTW2.


----------



## dweaver (Mar 6, 2021)

LOL I am seeing ads for the WF-1000XM3 back down to $199 in Canada so the XM4 must be imminent. Might wish I had just skipped the XM3...

I just charged the AZ70 I will check the case next weekend to see if the led has  dropped to 2 and continue another week if it's still at 3.

It's funny I find the AZ70 louder than XM3 at lower volumes in that I have to set it lower than the XM3 when I want a quiet listen for sleeping or concentrating at work. But that may be the difference in the sound signatures.


----------



## Tommy C

dweaver said:


> LOL I am seeing ads for the WF-1000XM3 back down to $199 in Canada so the XM4 must be imminent. Might wish I had just skipped the XM3...
> 
> I just charged the AZ70 I will check the case next weekend to see if the led has  dropped to 2 and continue another week if it's still at 3.
> 
> It's funny I find the AZ70 louder than XM3 at lower volumes in that I have to set it lower than the XM3 when I want a quiet listen for sleeping or concentrating at work. But that may be the difference in the sound signatures.


Possibly, but the price of the WF-1000XM3 has been all over the place in the last few months in Canada so don't kick yourself. 
Who knows when the XM4 will pop up and be available in Canada.


----------



## Canabuc

I don't think at 200$ CDN there is another earbud as good sounding with ANC as the sony.
Well the JBL except their ANC is garbage.

Anyone have opinions on the freebuds pro? Apparently feet ANC great multipoint and microphones.

Have heard varying reviews in their audio from great bass and overall nice sound but weak highs ....


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

PixelSquish said:


> The Technics just got here. They came with a 10% charge. The JBL and Senns both came with at least 50% charge. So they are charging away - there is also a firmware update available so will be testing them out in a little bit once they charge for an hour.


No dice for me. FedEx decided to take the day off, I guess.

Not much to comment on, except that I had the MTs in while I pressure-washed the garage and siding. Never budged and I clocked about 22k steps from it, so I think that suffices for a workout. That's good enough to pass the fit test, as far as I'm concerned.


----------



## Canabuc

miserybeforethemusic said:


> No dice for me. FedEx decided to take the day off, I guess.
> 
> Not much to comment on, except that I had the MTs in while I pressure-washed the garage and siding. Never budged and I clocked about 22k steps from it, so I think that suffices for a workout. That's good enough to pass the fit test, as far as I'm concerned.



Am using large fin on left medium on right with Liberty 2 pro ear tips. So far pain is less seal is better.
Will need to give it a long term test.

Question about the case.
Mine is I put pressure on the top it creaks faintly and the top door has a little bit of wriggle unlike the Sennheiser which feel more stuff and solid.
Are they all like that or did I get a bad build.


----------



## dweaver (Mar 7, 2021)

I thought about it and the reality is I can't afford early adoption pricing anyway. So even if the XM4 was released tomorrow I won't be looking at buying it until it's prices starts to drop or it goes in sale anyway.

The good news for me is that the XM3 actually fit me pretty decently so why worry...

It like the shoes I bought yesterday. They were on clearance for just about half price. The new model might have slight improvements but at nearly twice the price... I don't think so


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

Canabuc said:


> Am using large fin on left medium on right with Liberty 2 pro ear tips. So far pain is less seal is better.
> Will need to give it a long term test.
> 
> Question about the case.
> ...


No idea. I must be too ginger with my stuff, but I don't feel any creaking on the MT's case.


----------



## tinyman392 (Mar 7, 2021)

I know the Libratone TWS were brought up a couple days ago...  The measurements Crinacle has for them actually don’t look half bad.  Really big sub-bass boost, like a 10 dB bump shelf starting at 100 Hz peaking around 30-ish Hz.

Edit: it would help if I showed the plot, huh?


----------



## Canabuc

miserybeforethemusic said:


> No idea. I must be too ginger with my stuff, but I don't feel any creaking on the MT's case.



Can you hold it in your hand and press down on the top lid. Also try to wiggle the lid when closed.

Ears hurting again from the fins. Will try small find tomorrow but these might have to go back.


----------



## bladefd

dweaver said:


> I thought about it and the reality is I can't afford early adoption pricing anyway. So even if the XM4 was released tomorrow I won't be looking at buying it until it's prices starts to drop or it goes in sale anyway.
> 
> The good news for me is that the XM3 actually fit me pretty decently so why worry...
> 
> It like the shoes I bought yesterday. They were on clearance for just about half price. The new model might have slight improvements but at nearly twice the price... I don't think so


Best not to buy on release. I usually don't due to not only the high cost but also bugs/issues out of the gate. I learned that multiple times with computer hardware over the years to not buy on release. I have tightly held to that rule over the years until I went against that very rule with the MT lol. First 3 weeks until the firmware were absolute hell, and I re-learned that same lesson once again. I probably needed a refresher lol


----------



## Womaz

So with the Melomania I get a good fit with the large fins but I need a bigger tip , one that goes into my ear more.
I am looking for some foam tips as I find these do that. Looked at the Comply website but the Melomania is not listed. Anyone know what number I would get? I have some for my Andros and my ER4XR but none of them fit. 
It does not have to be Comply foam tips.....any foam tips will do


----------



## davidcotton

dweaver said:


> I thought about it and the reality is I can't afford early adoption pricing anyway. So even if the XM4 was released tomorrow I won't be looking at buying it until it's prices starts to drop or it goes in sale anyway.
> 
> The good news for me is that the XM3 actually fit me pretty decently so why worry...
> 
> It like the shoes I bought yesterday. They were on clearance for just about half price. The new model might have slight improvements but at nearly twice the price... I don't think so


I just picked up the xm3 despite having no interest until recently in tws.  Got them on sale for £140.00 in the uk.  Same issue as iems for me when it comes to fit.  Left ear fits fine, right ear no dice.  Medium feels loose whilst large fits but made the ear sore.  Actually contemplating getting a set of custom tips done for them, but guessing I would have to take them off to fit in the case each time to charge?  Do we know what the nozzle size is for tip rolling?


----------



## Aerosphere

Nicely done FiiO! 
https://www.headfonia.com/fiio-utws3-review/


----------



## FYLegend

Hqs anyone actually tried SongX? Can't believe they actually exist after the disastrous Indiegogo flak beliechttps://www.amazon.ca/dp/B08XKF8JZF/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_i_28VQY7PFK7YVSQ1NCC5Y


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

Canabuc said:


> Can you hold it in your hand and press down on the top lid. Also try to wiggle the lid when closed.
> 
> Ears hurting again from the fins. Will try small find tomorrow but these might have to go back.


There is the slightest amount of flex on the case when squeezing. I don't think I'd be concerned about it


----------



## Canabuc

miserybeforethemusic said:


> There is the slightest amount of flex on the case when squeezing. I don't think I'd be concerned about it


I'm just wondering if this is normal or if maybe there is a defect in the hinge


----------



## miserybeforethemusic (Mar 7, 2021)

Canabuc said:


> I'm just wondering if this is normal or if maybe there is a defect in the hinge


I think it's because you're pushing hard on a piece of plastic, but I wouldn't call that a defect. The Earfun Free Pros creak far worse; almost sounds like a crack when they do. To be honest, I don't keep these compressed in pockets much, so I didn't think anything of it until you asked.

If anything, the issue with bud fit in the case (as far as charging is concerned) has more to do with the pin alignment, which is why several of us have suggested to kinda drop your buds in from ~1 inch or so and let the magnets take care of the rest. The Large fins give you a very, very narrow tolerance for how they'll fit in the case and still charge, so I guess we can chalk that one up to either bad design or a sign they need to tighten tolerances in manufacturing.

Edit: forgot to mention both the TWS1 (non-Pro) and Technics are marked out for delivery today. I probably won't even ask my daughter to demo them for a while. I have an idea what to expect sound-wise and they're more a gift for her anyway. Just hope Ali doesn't take a millennia to ship out the Pro.

Also really digging Neutron player, but man if that UI doesn't manage to remind me of 80s-90s Hi-Fi gear with its unnecessarily complex layout. Sounds fantastic, though. Glad they allow a trial of this; makes it really easy to justify the cost.

Today's gloomy weather tends to help be connect more to stuff like this. Was trying to link the album by Spotify, but the app is being squirrelly today:


----------



## Canabuc (Mar 7, 2021)

miserybeforethemusic said:


> I think it's because you're pushing hard on a piece of plastic, but I wouldn't call that a defect. The Earfun Free Pros creak far worse; almost sounds like a crack when they do. To be honest, I don't keep these compressed in pockets much, so I didn't think anything of it until you asked.
> 
> If anything, the issue with bud fit in the case (as far as charging is concerned) has more to do with the pin alignment, which is why several of us have suggested to kinda drop your buds in from ~1 inch or so and let the magnets take care of the rest. The Large fins give you a very, very narrow tolerance for how they'll fit in the case and still charge, so I guess we can chalk that one up to either bad design or a sign they need to tighten tolerances in manufacturing.
> 
> ...



The more I listen to the CA MT the more I absolutely love the sound. Have them EQ'd where the bass still hit hard but vocals and highs are more present than stock tuning.


I just need to find right ear tips and fin combo. I either have pain or a bad seal.
I really want to make these work.
May have to go finless or with the small which don't add any support for me other than a rubber surface.
Have heard the final audio tips for tws are very good but only 1 place sells from China and are 20$ and would likely need different size for each ear meaning 40 dollars.


----------



## Womaz

Canabuc said:


> The more I listen to the CA MT the more I absolutely love the sound. Have them EQ'd where the bass still hit hard but vocals and highs are more present than stock tuning.
> 
> 
> I just need to find right ear tips and fin combo. I either have pain or a bad seal.
> ...


Can you share your EQ setting please as that sort if tuning is what I an looking for


----------



## miserybeforethemusic (Mar 7, 2021)

Canabuc said:


> The more I listen to the CA MT the more I absolutely love the sound. Have them EQ'd where the bass still hit hard but vocals and highs are more present than stock tuning.
> 
> 
> I just need to find right ear tips and fin combo. I either have pain or a bad seal.
> ...


Talking about these guys?
https://www.mtmtaudio.com/products/...-for-true-wireless-bluetooth-earphone-2-pairs

Tempted to order a set myself, but almost $20 for 2 sets is asking a lot.

Also came up with a wild idea today to ditch the app-specific EQs and just run the MTs through Neutralizer. If you're not familiar, the app plays a series of sine tones over white noise, then has you adjust the volume of those tones one by one until they're barely audible. The idea is that it gives you the truly "neutral" EQ based on your own hearing. Here's what I came up with:


I should mention that I can pretty much never hear the 10 kHz tone on any pair, wired or otherwise, so I usually just leave it untouched.


----------



## dweaver

davidcotton said:


> I just picked up the xm3 despite having no interest until recently in tws.  Got them on sale for £140.00 in the uk.  Same issue as iems for me when it comes to fit.  Left ear fits fine, right ear no dice.  Medium feels loose whilst large fits but made the ear sore.  Actually contemplating getting a set of custom tips done for them, but guessing I would have to take them off to fit in the case each time to charge?  Do we know what the nozzle size is for tip rolling?


The original Hybrid tips fit on them really well and the large size is softer so would be more comfortable in that one ear.

Sorry not sure on the diameter of the nozzle.


----------



## bronco1015

maybe this is more trouble than it's worth, but i just got the IE300 in for review yesterday. Is there an adaptor i could buy to make them fit the Shure TW1?


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

bronco1015 said:


> maybe this is more trouble than it's worth, but i just got the IE300 in for review yesterday. Is there an adaptor i could buy to make them fit the Shure TW1?


I thought they were both MMCX. What sort of fit concerns do you have?


----------



## bronco1015 (Mar 7, 2021)

miserybeforethemusic said:


> I thought they were both MMCX. What sort of fit concerns do you have?


Indeed they both are, so I didn't expect a problem. but the IE300 will not snap on to the TW1 at all. It will connect, you can hear audio, but will not snap in to place. Edit: the Audiofly AF180 MK2 connect just fine to the tw1.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

bronco1015 said:


> Indeed they both are, so I didn't expect a problem. but the IE300 will not snap on to the TW1 at all. It will connect, you can hear audio, but will not snap in to place. Edit: the Audiofly AF180 MK2 connect just fine to the tw1.


That's bizarre. Wonder if Senn did something semi-proprietary like mess around with the MMCX standard or give it a deep socket so your Shures can't fully secure to the cup.

I've always wanted to give those AF180s a shot, but couldn't ever pull the trigger. Heard great things, though


----------



## Canabuc

Womaz said:


> Can you share your EQ setting please as that sort if tuning is what I an looking for


----------



## Canabuc

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Talking about these guys?
> https://www.mtmtaudio.com/products/...-for-true-wireless-bluetooth-earphone-2-pairs
> 
> Tempted to order a set myself, but almost $20 for 2 sets is asking a lot.
> ...



So you have to run this app in the background on phone when listening to music?


----------



## bronco1015

miserybeforethemusic said:


> That's bizarre. Wonder if Senn did something semi-proprietary like mess around with the MMCX standard or give it a deep socket so your Shures can't fully secure to the cup.
> 
> I've always wanted to give those AF180s a shot, but couldn't ever pull the trigger. Heard great things, though


They are pretty solid. First product from Audiofly i'd heard and while there are things i'd change, i was pretty impressed with them.


----------



## Canabuc

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Talking about these guys?
> https://www.mtmtaudio.com/products/...-for-true-wireless-bluetooth-earphone-2-pairs
> 
> Tempted to order a set myself, but almost $20 for 2 sets is asking a lot.
> ...



Yes those tips. If it was 20$for a mixed set I would do it but my left and right ear needs different sizes.


----------



## Canabuc

What I am noticing with the MT is that they don't go into the ear canals as much as seal the opening unlike the Sennheisers.
This is why so e people lose seal with smiling chewing etc as it separates from the opening. This is why I think these would benefit from wider tips.since pushing them into the ear canals doesn't really work.
I never got along with Spinfit co360 though they seem to be the right size. Based on the Cambridge audio site specs in the included ear tips.
Maybe I should try the XL and large instead of the medium and large.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

Canabuc said:


> So you have to run this app in the background on phone when listening to music?


Yes. I imagine some apps that take exclusive control might override it, but does the trick for everything else I've tried. Having multiple profiles available for one pair based on use case is really nifty.

I kinda dig the way the MTs sound after knocking down that gigantic wall of midbass. Certainly tamer in comparison, but definitely helps everything from the midrange up.


Canabuc said:


> What I am noticing with the MT is that they don't go into the ear canals as much as seal the opening unlike the Sennheisers.
> This is why so e people lose seal with smiling chewing etc as it separates from the opening. This is why I think these would benefit from wider tips.since pushing them into the ear canals doesn't really work.
> I never got along with Spinfit co360 though they seem to be the right size. Based on the Cambridge audio site specs in the included ear tips.
> Maybe I should try the XL and large instead of the medium and large.


I keep saying _do not insert these as much as IEMs_. You will have a consistently-broken seal. You need a tip wide enough to sit on the opening of you ear canal; the fin does the rest to keep it in place. Unlike the JBLs, which seem to do fantastic when inserted deeper, I've only had problems with the MTs and deep insertion. Wasn't kidding when I said it was kinda counterintuitive to get a good seal.


----------



## Canabuc

What I am noticing with the MT is that they don't go into the ear canals as much as seal the opening unlike the Sennheisers.
This is why so e people lose seal with smiling chewing etc as it separates from the opening. This is why I think these would benefit from wider tips.since pushing them into the ear canals doesn't really work.
I never got along with Spinfit co360 though they seem to be the right size. Based on the Cambridge audio site specs in the included ear tips.
Maybe I should try the XL and large instead of the medium and large.


----------



## Canabuc

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Yes. I imagine some apps that take exclusive control might override it, but does the trick for everything else I've tried. Having multiple profiles available for one pair based on use case is really nifty.
> 
> I kinda dig the way the MTs sound after knocking down that gigantic wall of midbass. Certainly tamer in comparison, but definitely helps everything from the midrange up.
> 
> I keep saying _do not insert these as much as IEMs_. You will have a consistently-broken seal. You need a tip wide enough to sit on the opening of you ear canal; the fin does the rest to keep it in place. Unlike the JBLs, which seem to do fantastic when inserted deeper, I've only had problems with the MTs and deep insertion. Wasn't kidding when I said it was kinda counterintuitive to get a good seal.



You are very right but my canyon size right ear hile needs a bigger tip or wider at least to keep that seal. So far the largest tips from L2P seems to work on right and next size down on left. Went to smallest fin on right. Pain better, wing does nothing but the tip seems large enough and the bud light enough that it seems relatively secure. Oddly am using largest fin on left with no real discomfort. I would love to get customized wi G's and tips as these definitely seem as best overall sounding earbud for every genre I've thrown at it.

Sennheiser are great for jazz acoustic but not as good for hip hop EDM...


----------



## Womaz

Thanks. That’s very similar to mine


----------



## Womaz

Canabuc said:


> What I am noticing with the MT is that they don't go into the ear canals as much as seal the opening unlike the Sennheisers.
> This is why so e people lose seal with smiling chewing etc as it separates from the opening. This is why I think these would benefit from wider tips.since pushing them into the ear canals doesn't really work.
> I never got along with Spinfit co360 though they seem to be the right size. Based on the Cambridge audio site specs in the included ear tips.
> Maybe I should try the XL and large instead of the medium and large.


I am thinking along the same lines . i am thinking about some foam tips for these . I smile .....and I have to readjust them again . That’s why I have had to disable the touch controls


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

Womaz said:


> I am thinking along the same lines . i am thinking about some foam tips for these . I smile .....and I have to readjust them again . That’s why I have had to disable the touch controls


I know it's across the pond, but I'd still suggest giving these a shot:
https://dekoniaudio.com/product/dek...black-the-mercury-true-wireless-4-9mm-3-pack/


----------



## Womaz

miserybeforethemusic said:


> I know it's across the pond, but I'd still suggest giving these a shot:
> https://dekoniaudio.com/product/dek...black-the-mercury-true-wireless-4-9mm-3-pack/


It’s the cost to get them here . The import costs and then the fees on top of that


----------



## bladefd (Mar 7, 2021)

miserybeforethemusic said:


> I know it's across the pond, but I'd still suggest giving these a shot:
> https://dekoniaudio.com/product/dek...black-the-mercury-true-wireless-4-9mm-3-pack/


Hmm, no mention of length. For MT, tip length has to be less than 8mm to fit in the case I believe. The final type e for tws is 7mm

Edit: Apparently the dekoni length is 7.5mm so it is hard to be sure if it would fit MT. Would be nice to know exact length of MT stock tips


----------



## tinyman392

bronco1015 said:


> maybe this is more trouble than it's worth, but i just got the IE300 in for review yesterday. Is there an adaptor i could buy to make them fit the Shure TW1?


I do know that not all MMCX plugs are made alike, how they are housed and the dimensions surrounding them could cause issues. I remember reading on the AKG N5005 information page saying that the other AKG cables are not compatible one way or the other.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

bladefd said:


> Hmm, no mention of length. For MT, tip length has to be less than 8mm to fit in the case I believe. The final type e for tws is 7mm
> 
> Edit: Apparently the dekoni length is 7.5mm so it is hard to be sure if it would fit MT. Would be nice to know exact length of MT stock tips


They mention in their blog post that dimensions are identical to the MTW2's stock tips. Think it's safe to assume they're compatible.


----------



## bronco1015

tinyman392 said:


> I do know that not all MMCX plugs are made alike, how they are housed and the dimensions surrounding them could cause issues. I remember reading on the AKG N5005 information page saying that the other AKG cables are not compatible one way or the other.


Good to know. I honestly never knew or considered that. I have way more experience with headphones than wired iems. it's to bad though. the IE300 would fit a nice use case if could pair it with the TW1. AT least i can use them wired with several different options.


----------



## dweaver

When I read about the IE300, Sennheiser mentions a recessed MMCX connector or something to that effect so they are proprietary, the reason was to help make them more reliable according to the literature.


----------



## bronco1015

dweaver said:


> When I read about the IE300, Sennheiser mentions a recessed MMCX connector or something to that effect so they are proprietary, the reason was to help make them more reliable according to the literature.


lame. And would have been nice to get some info sent with them about that. Oh well though. I can still review based on use with my V60, HA-2SE and desktop setup so still some different scenarios to give feedback from.


----------



## davidcotton

@Womaz audiosanctuary.co.uk stock dekoni.  They may be able to get some of the tips you are after?


----------



## tinyman392

bronco1015 said:


> Good to know. I honestly never knew or considered that. I have way more experience with headphones than wired iems. it's to bad though. the IE300 would fit a nice use case if could pair it with the TW1. AT least i can use them wired with several different options.


It wouldn’t be too different from like a recessed 3.5mm jack designed to only accept their cable or some other BS 😆 Etymotic’s MMCX actually has a notch in it to stop it from spinning around.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

The pink TWS1 showed up today. Didn't last more than a few minutes out of the box before my daughter snatched them up and ran to her room to listen to some stuff on Spotify. If two children can get this thing unboxed, charged, paired, and running on an iPhone, I'd say that's pretty impressive.

Still waiting on the Technics, though.


----------



## TK33 (Mar 7, 2021)

miserybeforethemusic said:


> The pink TWS1 showed up today. Didn't last more than a few minutes out of the box before my daughter snatched them up and ran to her room to listen to some stuff on Spotify. If two children can get this thing unboxed, charged, paired, and running on an iPhone, I'd say that's pretty impressive.
> 
> Still waiting on the Technics, though.


You would be surprised at what kids can do these days...I think we give them too little credit.  My 3 year old just walked into the room with my phone (which was charging on top of a table) unlocked and Amazon music already launched because he wanted to listen to the "vegetable song".

He also told me that a pair of TWS needed batteries because the lights wouldn't turn on when he was playing with them...


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

TK33 said:


> You would be surprised at what kids can do these days...I think we give them too little credit.  My 3 year old just walked into the room with my phone (which was charging on top of a table) unlocked and Amazon music already launched because he wanted to listen to the "vegetable song".
> 
> He also told me that a pair of TWS needed batteries because the lights wouldn't turn on when he was playing with them...


I can't even get mine to check the silverware before they unload the dishwasher, yet they could unlock a phone at 3. What is happening?


----------



## Canabuc

bladefd said:


> Hmm, no mention of length. For MT, tip length has to be less than 8mm to fit in the case I believe. The final type e for tws is 7mm
> 
> Edit: Apparently the dekoni length is 7.5mm so it is hard to be sure if it would fit MT. Would be nice to know exact length of MT stock tips


----------



## PixelSquish (Mar 7, 2021)

My comments on the Technics are earlier but I have to add the Ambient Sound mode is better than the MTW2. But they are going back due to simply having too low of a volume which to go along with a bit less bass than I like just means they don't have a punchy enough sound for me. The ANC though is really good. If you don't listen to your music loud, and don't need a lot of bass, the Technics might be perfect. I don't they don't have bass, they are not cold and analytical, just not as much bass as I needed, coming from the MTW2 and having experienced the JBL Club Pro Plus.

The Melomania Touch came in today. They paired easy, went to do the firmware upgrade - the left bud upgraded fine but the right kept failing. I had to reset the buds in the case then re-pair them and the firmware updated ok. Fit is more finicky with these than the MTW2 and the case is far more restrictive with 3rd party tips than the Senns and my favorite tips won't work with the MT case. The JBL case was also no good with the tips I like. These cases just don't close since they build them with tolerances so tied to the size of their own tips, very frustrating. Luckily a pair of Large Spinfits I have fit on the MT and go in the case. When you take these out of the case they take a bit longer to connect to my phone than either the Senns, JBL's or Technics.

These definitely get loud like I enjoy. They are just as loud or maybe a tiny bit louder than the MTW2. They just have a great organic fun sound to them. I like the stock MT sound with the equalizer left alone. Don't find them too bassy at all. They definitely have a really nice rich but still detailed sound. The touch controls are a bit finicky - too sensitive in many cases. I immediately disabled the volume controls on both buds as if you adjust the buds, you will set off the volume control. I kept all the other playback controls active though. We shall see how that goes but I think it will work out. Gonna have to test out the battery life with these at near full volume and see how long they go. I have these set to aptX only with my Google Pixel 5. The sound really is shining on these, I don't find myself missing the MTW2 sound, nor do I find these noticeably better either, more like a just as nice type of thing. 

I do feel any bud with Ambient mode should have an option to auto pause the music when you turn transparency mode on, these don't. I miss that. I also do miss not having the option for the music to automatically stop when you take an earbud out of your ear. But I knew that when I bought these.


----------



## Canabuc

PixelSquish said:


> My comments on the Technics are earlier but I have to add the Ambient Sound mode is better than the MTW2. But they are going back due to simply having too low of a volume which to go along with a bit less bass than I like just means they don't have a punchy enough sound for me. The ANC though is really good. If you don't listen to your music loud, and don't need a lot of bass, the Technics might be perfect. I don't they don't have bass, they are not cold and analytical, just not as much bass as I needed, coming from the MTW2 and having experienced the JBL Club Pro Plus.
> 
> The Melomania Touch came in today. They paired easy, went to do the firmware upgrade - the left bud upgraded fine but the right kept failing. I had to reset the buds in the case then re-pair them and the firmware updated ok. Fit is more finicky with these than the MTW2 and the case is far more restrictive with 3rd party tips than the Senns and my favorite tips won't work with the MT case. The JBL case was also no good with the tips I like. These cases just don't close since they build them with tolerances so tied to the size of their own tips, very frustrating. Luckily a pair of Large Spinfits I have fit on the MT and go in the case. When you take these out of the case they take a bit longer to connect to my phone than either the Senns, JBL's or Technics.
> 
> These definitely get loud like I enjoy. They are just as loud or maybe a tiny bit louder than the MTW2. They just have a great organic fun sound to them. I like the stock MT sound with the equalizer left alone. Don't find them too bassy at all. They definitely have a really nice rich but still detailed sound. The touch controls are a bit finicky - too sensitive in many cases. I immediately disabled the volume controls on both buds as if you adjust the buds, you will set off the volume control. I kept all the other playback controls active though. We shall see how that goes but I think it will work out. Gonna have to test out the battery life with these at near full volume and see how long they go. I have these set to aptX only with my Google Pixel 5. The sound really is shining on these, I don't find myself missing the MTW2 sound, nor do I find these noticeably better either, more like a just as nice type of thing.



What phone youisng them with. They are insanely louder than the MTW2 for me. 
My samdu g has volume increment up to 150. These at 95 are as loud or louder than sennheisers at 115!


----------



## PixelSquish

Canabuc said:


> What phone youisng them with. They are insanely louder than the MTW2 for me.
> My samdu g has volume increment up to 150. These at 95 are as loud or louder than sennheisers at 115!



I have the Google Pixel 5. There is no numerical scale on the volume control. I can say the MT are at least one but probably two clicks louder than the MTW2 on my volume control. 

I can't wait to see the battery life on these. They claim 7 hours at the High Quality setting.


----------



## Canabuc

PixelSquish said:


> I have the Google Pixel 5. There is no numerical scale on the volume control. I can say the MT are at least one but probably two clicks louder than the MTW2 on my volume control.
> 
> I can't wait to see the battery life on these. They claim 7 hours at the High Quality setting.


What other tws earbud do you currently own. I have to decide on the Sennheiser by Wednesday. Think they are going back. The sound is very nice but since genres don't do great with them and outside of ANC which is only mediocre, they don't offer anything more than the MT. At 100$ more.


----------



## PixelSquish

Canabuc said:


> What other tws earbud do you currently own. I have to decide on the Sennheiser by Wednesday. Think they are going back. The sound is very nice but since genres don't do great with them and outside of ANC which is only mediocre, they don't offer anything more than the MT. At 100$ more.


I own the Senn MTW2. I have tried the JBL Club Pro Plus and the Technics. The more I listen to these MT's at home just chilling out, where I usually don't usually just sit and listen to wireless IEM's, these are really nice sounding buds. When I walked the dog earlier with these I passed the garbage truck twice, and didn't stop to think these could use ANC. I'll see how they sound on the train on Wednesday but I don't foresee any problems. 

The things I like more about the MTW2 is touch controls that aren't overly sensitive with true customizability, auto pausing the music with Ambient mode, a case that fits with more tips, and auto pausing the music when you take a bud out. Don't like the battery life. If it's all about sound, the MT's are great. Plus they reportedly have a chunk better battery life. The sound is very nice though. I don't mind the bass that some think needs to be tamed a little bit.


----------



## Canabuc

Also one more case question bout the CA MT.
If I squeeze top of lid from each end then open with the other hand it opens smoothly. If I open from the front it almost feels as if the front lip catches briefly before it gives way. This and when case is closed there is a bit of wriggle with top lid makes me wonder if they are all like that or if mine has a bit of a defect. When closed it is secure and buds go in fine with red lights. And ho ge when fully open seems find.
Just wondering if all cases are like mine or if I should exchange.


----------



## Canabuc

PixelSquish said:


> I own the Senn MTW2. I have tried the JBL Club Pro Plus and the Technics. The more I listen to these MT's at home just chilling out, where I usually don't usually just sit and listen to wireless IEM's, these are really nice sounding buds. When I walked the dog earlier with these I passed the garbage truck twice, and didn't stop to think these could use ANC. I'll see how they sound on the train on Wednesday but I don't foresee any problems.
> 
> The things I like more about the MTW2 is touch controls that aren't overly sensitive with true customizability, auto pausing the music with Ambient mode, a case that fits with more tips, and auto pausing the music when you take a bud out. Don't like the battery life. If it's all about sound, the MT's are great. Plus they reportedly have a chunk better battery life. The sound is very nice though. I don't mind the bass that some think needs to be tamed a little bit.


I agree the Sennheiser touch controls are the best. The pause music removing bid is not a big deal it literally is one tap as I remove the bud to pause it.

As far as ambient I prefer JBL implementation. There I have choice 1 where ambient goes with music and I choose music volume with it.
Hearthrough drops music to 10% and ambient sound is amplified more so better for a conversation or to listen to announcements.

With Sennheiser if you set ambient to pause your music then you can't listen to music with ambient at same time without going into the app to turn off that setting.

With MT again 1 press to pause and the true press to activate ambient but I can have both options that way.
Battery much better on MT.
As for sensitive touch controls I am learning how to hold the MT from the vertical end when inserting or adjusting and my phantom press rate is way down. Better than the galaxy buds pro where there was no accessible surface.

Did you return the JBL?
Right now am leaning towards keeping the MT and with the money saved can keep the Sennheiser cx400bt which were 100$ and give me nearly identical sound to MTW2. So get both for cost of MTW2.


----------



## PixelSquish

Canabuc said:


> I agree the Sennheiser touch controls are the best. The pause music removing bid is not a big deal it literally is one tap as I remove the bud to pause it.
> 
> As far as ambient I prefer JBL implementation. There I have choice 1 where ambient goes with music and I choose music volume with it.
> Hearthrough drops music to 10% and ambient sound is amplified more so better for a conversation or to listen to announcements.
> ...


I returned the JBL's already. I initiated a return for the Technics. Gonna keep the MT to go along with the MTW2, since I've had those since last April. Which is good because they are only $150 and I'm happier with these than the JBL's or the Technics.


----------



## Canabuc

Did you ever try the sonys


----------



## bladefd

@Canabuc 

So max eartip length limit for MT is 8.4mm. Probably want to stay around 8mm or less just to be safe


----------



## Canabuc

bladefd said:


> @Canabuc
> 
> So max eartip length limit for MT is 8.4mm. Probably want to stay around 8mm or less just to be safe


Spinfits have same dimensions but didn't love the large maybe the extra large?


----------



## bronco1015

Canabuc said:


> I agree the Sennheiser touch controls are the best. The pause music removing bid is not a big deal it literally is one tap as I remove the bud to pause it.
> 
> As far as ambient I prefer JBL implementation. There I have choice 1 where ambient goes with music and I choose music volume with it.
> Hearthrough drops music to 10% and ambient sound is amplified more so better for a conversation or to listen to announcements.
> ...


What happens if you press play on your MTW2 with ambient activated? For me it just stays in ambient mode. when i switch from passive or ANC to Ambient it does pause the music, but then just pressing play on the left iem the music starts back up and can still hear what's going on around me.


----------



## Windmolinos

So, after more than 30000 posts... what is the answer to the question in the title? too soon? or we can start compare with wired?


----------



## bronco1015

Windmolinos said:


> So, after more than 30000 posts... what is the answer to the question in the title? too soon? or we can start compare with wired?


start reading. If nothing else it might be fun to see people's journey. SQ is much better on products than it was when this thread started 3.5 years ago, and convenience is hard to argue with. IMO there are a lot of good products but TWEs are still behind wired when it comes to sound.


----------



## davidcotton

bronco1015 said:


> start reading. If nothing else it might be fun to see people's journey. SQ is much better on products than it was when this thread started 3.5 years ago, and convenience is hard to argue with. IMO there are a lot of good products but TWEs are still behind wired when it comes to sound.


The main issue for me is still going to be battery life.  Wired, you never have that issue.


----------



## Aevum

any recommendations on something small to sleep with ? im looking at something nice and cheap for noisy neighbours.


----------



## Canabuc

davidcotton said:


> The main issue for me is still going to be battery life.  Wired, you never have that issue.


Many earbuds now give you 6 to 9 hours on a charge with the case giving 3 more. Would be very exceptional you would have run out of battery listener to music.


----------



## BigZ12

Aevum said:


> any recommendations on something small to sleep with ? im looking at something nice and cheap for noisy neighbours.


If you use an iPhone, I recommend the Beats Flex (neckband style, not tws).
Pretty cheap, very good battery life, good sq and small enough for sleeping without any discomfort. 
I use it with the Symbio F tips. Very secure and comfortable fit.


----------



## Canabuc

Galaxy bud plus, earfun free pro/Fiil t1 pro in or lite both are small light and low profile for sleep.


----------



## turbobb

turbobb said:


> Finally got to test the 85t w/Jabra Link (both 370 and 380) but can't figure out how to enable Stereo audio quality w/the mics on (I've installed the Jabra Direct app and ensured all FW are updated). Under Win10 Sound Settings I have set the output and input device as Jabra Link and when I listen to music, it plays it only in mono mode. Once I set input to anything but the Jabra Link then I get back Stereo mode (but then it defeats the purpose of having an all-in-one solution via the 85t). Anyone have this working properly?


Giving this a bump to see if those who have the Jabra Link might be able to chime in. @miserybeforethemusic - I recall you mentioning you have a 380 inbound, have you received it yet?


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

Aevum said:


> any recommendations on something small to sleep with ? im looking at something nice and cheap for noisy neighbours.


Earfun Free Pro would definitely fit that bill.


turbobb said:


> Giving this a bump to see if those who have the Jabra Link might be able to chime in. @miserybeforethemusic - I recall you mentioning you have a 380 inbound, have you received it yet?


Yep. Tiny little bugger, too. Didn't accomplish my goal of pairing up some of the other TWS+ buds, but worth it alone on the call quality and SQ upgrades.


----------



## turbobb

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Yep. Tiny little bugger, too. Didn't accomplish my goal of pairing up some of the other TWS+ buds, but worth it alone on the call quality and SQ upgrades.


So you're able to still listen to music in stereo while the mic is active? If so, which TWS is that with?


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

turbobb said:


> So you're able to still listen to music in stereo while the mic is active? If so, which TWS is that with?


Don't think that'll work, but I honestly haven't tested it. What I meant is that call quality is significantly improved and people I'm on the call are very grateful for it. The barrier between that old BT sound-like-you're-at-the-end-of-a-hall-and-underwater sound is gone. Additionally, music quality for general listening when I'm not on calls is significantly improved. Finally, having the ability to EQ sound mid-call has been a major plus for people who are running sub-optimal conference call setups.

Also, the USB-C dongle is tiny and barely takes up more space than the plug itself.


----------



## Canabuc

Ok it's official MTW2 going back.
They are very good but ANC is just OK and truthfully CA MT just sound as good or better for every song.
Sennheiser sound great for certain genres and not so good for others where the lower mids and upper bass sound a bit muffled whereas the MT sound deeper and can bring the mids forward more through EQ.

In fact despite the great deal on the cx400bt they offer nothing over the MT either except slightly better touch controls.

Brief try with the large Spinfit 360 on the right and seems first time ever a Spinfit tip felt right in a bud. Will trying the left and if large fits there too might even order the extra large for the right to get it sealed even better since the depth doesn't change.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

Canabuc said:


> Ok it's official MTW2 going back.
> They are very good but ANC is just OK and truthfully CA MT just sound as good or better for every song.
> Sennheiser sound great for certain genres and not so good for others where the lower mids and upper bass sound a bit muffled whereas the MT sound deeper and can bring the mids forward more through EQ.
> 
> ...


I'd say that's two giant thumbs up...and here I felt like I was going to get drawn and quartered if y'all bought the MTs and hated them.

And I'll be honest; between all my pairs, the only 3 that have gotten steady rotation have been the Jabra 85T, UE FITS, and Cambridge MT. The EFPs sneak in there from time to time just because of how dang small and easy to use they are, but the remainder of the pairs haven't gotten as much love. Maybe I can try to fix that this week, because there really is something impressive in each one of these.

Also good to know that I'm not missing much of anything with the Senns that never arrived. My PayPal case was supposed to be decided yesterday, but in the age of zero accountability, we've blown right past that deadline. Would be really nice to get that money back. Technics were marked Out for Delivery for the 3rd day in a row, so maybe 3rd time's a charm.


----------



## Gorillaphant

What's the best current option for an MMCX True Wireless adapter? Was sort of looking at the ibasso CF01 and also Shure's option as well.


----------



## BigZ12

Gorillaphant said:


> What's the best current option for an MMCX True Wireless adapter? Was sort of looking at the ibasso CF01 and also Shure's option as well.


I would go for the Fiio UTWS3, but they are difficult to get hold of right now?!


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

Gorillaphant said:


> What's the best current option for an MMCX True Wireless adapter? Was sort of looking at the ibasso CF01 and also Shure's option as well.


There's also the Fiio UTWS3, which ups the ante and gives you the ability to use both 0.78mm 2-pin _and_ MMCX. @BigZ12 beat me to the punch, but that's probably where I'd put my recommendation as well.


----------



## Canabuc (Mar 8, 2021)

miserybeforethemusic said:


> I'd say that's two giant thumbs up...and here I felt like I was going to get drawn and quartered if y'all bought the MTs and hated them.
> 
> And I'll be honest; between all my pairs, the only 3 that have gotten steady rotation have been the Jabra 85T, UE FITS, and Cambridge MT. The EFPs sneak in there from time to time just because of how dang small and easy to use they are, but the remainder of the pairs haven't gotten as much love. Maybe I can try to fix that this week, because there really is something impressive in each one of these.
> 
> Also good to know that I'm not missing much of anything with the Senns that never arrived. My PayPal case was supposed to be decided yesterday, but in the age of zero accountability, we've blown right past that deadline. Would be really nice to get that money back. Technics were marked Out for Delivery for the 3rd day in a row, so maybe 3rd time's a charm.



Don't get me wrong I live the sound on the sennheisers and they sound different than profile of most other buds with great soundstage.
But certain genres they are missing a certain loneliness that JBL and MT have.

Just wish the JBL had better ANC. Hard to justify keeping them and the MT.
The only actual benefit of the JBL is wireless charging case and maybe a tiny reduction in noise low end rumble with ANC and I like their implementation of ambient modes. But I lose volume control to have that on the buds.

Now if they had Sony's or even Samsung's ANC they would be my only bud.
For now think I will just hang on to the MT and see what else comes down the road. At worse they will always be my shorts buds as they are very secure ipx4 and have plenty of volume and bass.


----------



## bladefd

Canabuc said:


> Don't get me wrong I live the sound on the sennheisers and they sound different than profile of most other buds with great soundstage.
> But certain genres they are missing a certain loneliness that JBL and MT have.
> 
> Just with the JBL had better ANC. Hard to justify keeping them and the MT.
> ...


Might as well wait for more buds to show up down the road. I am rolling with the MT for at least a year. 

I also personally don't like to keep too many buds/headphones on hand at a time - I prefer buying when I need to. Not only can I not afford to have multiple ones, but having too many choices makes it difficult to choose lol. If I enjoy a piece, I just stick with it until it breaks or if I get sick of it. Right now I have a Sennheiser HD600 I have been using for a few years - love the sound but now I'm starting to get sick of the same same every day. I'm considering selling them and moving to something different. After a couple years, I just get sick of stuff and move onto something different.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic (Mar 8, 2021)

Gave the JBLs the Neutralizer treatment this morning. Ended up with the following curves based off each mode. Kinda interesting how this will point out what changes to the sound signature each mode causes:


Spoiler: JBL Club Pro+ Neutralizer Settings






















bladefd said:


> Might as well wait for more buds to show up down the road. I am rolling with the MT for at least a year.


Probably a good idea. Wait around for another major change to BT protocols, power delivery, or something similar. Considering COVID wiped out my ability to seek recreation in public, this is the next best thing, so I just reallocated my "night out" budget towards this rabbit-hole of a hobby.

Really don't regret it.


----------



## Canabuc

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Gave the JBLs the Neutralizer treatment this morning. Ended up with the following curves based off each mode. Kinda interesting how this will point out what changes to the sound signature each mode causes:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Can you show your results and also explain what the pictures mean?


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

Canabuc said:


> Can you show your results and also explain what the pictures mean?


Forum's doing some weird stuff with attachments when posting from mobile lately, so I had to link the photos externally. Post should be updated with photos now, hidden behind a spoiler tag.

Neutralizer runs pretty similar to Jabra's or Soundcore's HearID features. They just play a series of tones and make adjustments based on your ability to hear them. In Neutralizer's case, it's a manual adjustment. This really comes in handy when you might want a fairly neutral signature, but don't mind adding some sub-bass back in. Considering how receptive the JBLs are to EQ, it was kinda interesting to see that the adjustments are fairly similar to the MTs: bump subbass/bass a hair, drop midrange up to about 6k, then a small climb to 8k for presence. Kinda reminds me of the Harman target, which makes sense.

Been fun playing this during the demo period:


----------



## Gorillaphant

miserybeforethemusic said:


> There's also the Fiio UTWS3, which ups the ante and gives you the ability to use both 0.78mm 2-pin _and_ MMCX. @BigZ12 beat me to the punch, but that's probably where I'd put my recommendation as well.


This looks like a good option. Definitely going to see if I can get my hands on a set some time soon.


----------



## zeinharis

Aevum said:


> any recommendations on something small to sleep with ? im looking at something nice and cheap for noisy neighbours.


Is this furaizaa?. I thought you've got your answer on Kaskus?


----------



## kolbo

Canabuc said:


> Ok it's official MTW2 going back.
> They are very good but ANC is just OK and truthfully CA MT just sound as good or better for every song.
> Sennheiser sound great for certain genres and not so good for others where the lower mids and upper bass sound a bit muffled whereas the MT sound deeper and can bring the mids forward more through EQ.
> 
> ...


How is the transparency of the MT compared to the 85t? Call quality?


----------



## PixelSquish (Mar 8, 2021)

Listened to the MT's today on a long walk with the dog, they are great sounding buds, and comfy to wear too. Haven't had any urge to grab the MTW2's - between the two if you are just looking at SQ, you are good either way, and the MT are much cheaper.  Was listening to them at 90-100% volume, for an hour, minus a 10 minute pause while I went into the post office. Battery was down to about 82%. At this rate at near full volume these buds would last only about 5 hours with music on High Quality vs Performance Mode. Will have to do more testing though.


----------



## erockg

Best Buy here in the US have the new Bowers & Wilkins up as coming soon.  Good to see movement here.  

https://www.bestbuy.com/site/bowers...r-headphones-charcoal/6431696.p?skuId=6431696

https://www.bestbuy.com/site/bowers...r-headphones-charcoal/6431697.p?skuId=6431697


----------



## miserybeforethemusic (Mar 8, 2021)

erockg said:


> Best Buy here in the US have the new Bowers & Wilkins up as coming soon.  Good to see movement here.
> 
> https://www.bestbuy.com/site/bowers...r-headphones-charcoal/6431696.p?skuId=6431696
> 
> https://www.bestbuy.com/site/bowers...r-headphones-charcoal/6431697.p?skuId=6431697


Think I saw the PI5 pop up at Crutchfield as well. Was confused by them at first. M&D competitor, maybe? Think they're asking a bit much on the PI7, frankly.



> You get 4.5 hours of listening with noise cancellation on a full charge, and the charging case banks up to 9 hours of power.


From Crutchfield's product page. Seems pretty low, but then again they could have some beefy amplification in there for all I know.


----------



## erockg

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Think I saw the PI5 pop up at Crutchfield as well. Was confused by them at first. M&D competitor, maybe? Think they're asking a bit much on the PI7, frankly.


Can't really figure out the differences.  Not sure why anyone needs the airplane mode.  It's 2021.  When reading, looked to be different drivers, but who know yet.  I'll definitely test out a pair.  I love B&W a bit more than M&D, but oddly enough, testing out the M&W MW65's against Airpods Max here today with the band Unisonic.  The M&W's sound awfully good.  But I drank the Apple Kool Aid years ago.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

kolbo said:


> How is the transparency of the MT compared to the 85t? Call quality?


That's a one-sided fist fight there, friend. Jabra's definitely got the upper hand in transparency mode. Unless you crank the HearThrough slider in Jabra's app, the noise floor remains low and the effect is plenty convincing, especially since you perceive less pressure on your ear as is with the Jabras. In Cambridge's case, the Hearthrough mode is certainly serviceable, but you have to get used to a blanket of white noise dithering the signal while it's enabled and it only works when both buds are paired to your controlling device.

As for call quality, Jabra's going to take the cake again; it's what Jabra does and has for decades. This is Cambridge's second consumer-level portable audio device; they're still figuring stuff like good call quality out. That being said, I haven't heard my wife complain about it yet and she doesn't hesitate to let me know...every...single...time.

Happy Women's Day, by the way


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

erockg said:


> Can't really figure out the differences.  Not sure why anyone needs the airplane mode.  It's 2021.  When reading, looked to be different drivers, but who know yet.  I'll definitely test out a pair.  I love B&W a bit more than M&D, but oddly enough, testing out the M&W MW65's against Airpods Max here today with the band Unisonic.  The M&W's sound awfully good.  But I drank the Apple Kool Aid years ago.


Looks like the PI7 is a "bi-amped" (there's that buzzword again), DD/BA hybrid whereas the PI5 is a single-DD unit. Dynamic driver on the PI7 is a whopping 0.1mm larger than the PI5. The PI7's ANC is advertised as "Advanced Adaptive Hybrid ANC" versus the PI5's more pedestrian "Advanced ANC."

Honestly, I think they're both overpriced, but that's the B&W way


----------



## erockg

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Looks like the PI7 is a "bi-amped" (there's that buzzword again), DD/BA hybrid whereas the PI5 is a single-DD unit. Dynamic driver on the PI7 is a whopping 0.1mm larger than the PI5. The PI7's ANC is advertised as "Advanced Adaptive Hybrid ANC" versus the PI5's more pedestrian "Advanced ANC."
> 
> Honestly, I think they're both overpriced, but that's the B&W way


And yet here we are... way too many in the collection.  I'm bi-amped for all of them.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

erockg said:


> And yet here we are... way too many in the collection.  I'm bi-amped for all of them.


You got a real-world groan out of me from that one.

Just makes me think of what M&D did with the MW07 GO and Plus, but B&W seem to think they can command an extra $100 for each model over their direct competitors. Curious to see how these would stack up against the Between Pro/Falcon Pro, but not to the point where I'm ready to plunk down cash. Besides, those suckers look heavy.


----------



## erockg

miserybeforethemusic said:


> You got a real-world groan out of me from that one.
> 
> Just makes me think of what M&D did with the MW07 GO and Plus, but B&W seem to think they can command an extra $100 for each model over their direct competitors. Curious to see how these would stack up against the Between Pro/Falcon Pro, but not to the point where I'm ready to plunk down cash. Besides, those suckers look heavy.


You're welcome?  

The case looks just like my Earin A-3's.  If it's that small, wow.  I'm sure they'll go on sale.  You can score the M&W stuff _cheap-er_ now.  Plus' for about $229 now on Amazon for the Leica version.  Go's were $99 over the weekend at BB.  Makes you wonder what the markup is on these things.  Those fins on the M&D kill my ears and my wife keeps telling me to turn them down when I'm rocking out.  Lots of sound leakage.


----------



## bladefd

Glad I am past the 60 day return limit on the MT. I am too broke to buy another pair. My search has forcefully come to an end. My rollercoaster ride is over until at least next year, ladies & gentlemen 

Not that I'm complaining. MT is very good, and I like their sound quality.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

erockg said:


> You're welcome?
> 
> The case looks just like my Earin A-3's.  If it's that small, wow.  I'm sure they'll go on sale.  You can score the M&W stuff _cheap-er_ now.  Plus' for about $229 now on Amazon for the Leica version.  Go's were $99 over the weekend at BB.  Makes you wonder what the markup is on these things.  Those fins on the M&D kill my ears and my wife keeps telling me to turn them down when I'm rocking out.  Lots of sound leakage.


Hahaha sorry I should have prefaced the last comment with a thanks. Been under the weather today, so needed a lift in spirits.

Luckily, I managed to snag the GOs on Reddit for about $100 shipped, but I think that's about as much as I'd be willing to pay for them. Congrats to anybody who managed to snag them at BB for that price; I think you got a good deal. I just think they're just too feature-poor to justify asking for anything more in my opinion. Luckily I haven't heard any complaints about leakage yet, but I get the impression that quite a bit of sound could go right through that plastic shell and bleed out.


bladefd said:


> Glad I am past the 60 day return limit on the MT. I am too broke to buy another pair. My search has forcefully come to an end. My rollercoaster ride is over until at least next year, ladies & gentlemen
> 
> Not that I'm complaining. MT is very good, and I like their sound quality.


Even warriors on the battlefield understand when it's time to rest. Sounds like you've fought bravely.


----------



## Canabuc

kolbo said:


> How is the transparency of the MT compared to the 85t? Call quality?


Call quality was terrible on the MTW2. Calls would have all kinds of digital artificats and cut out so it was hard to communicate. Other part hear me fine.

The CA MT seemed fine on the 2 calls I made. Not class leading but seemed good enough.
Transparency was good and is adjustable I strength though at higher levels there is more white noise.


----------



## erockg

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Hahaha sorry I should have prefaced the last comment with a thanks. Been under the weather today, so needed a lift in spirits.
> 
> Luckily, I managed to snag the GOs on Reddit for about $100 shipped, but I think that's about as much as I'd be willing to pay for them. Congrats to anybody who managed to snag them at BB for that price; I think you got a good deal. I just think they're just too feature-poor to justify asking for anything more in my opinion. Luckily I haven't heard any complaints about leakage yet, but I get the impression that quite a bit of sound could go right through that plastic shell and bleed out.
> 
> Even warriors on the battlefield understand when it's time to rest. Sounds like you've fought bravely.


Oh, I completely get your sense of humor.  No apology necessary.  I've returned and/or sold all my M&W tws sadly.  Didn't make the every day cut over here.  I used to wear them at work before the new way and everyone would tell me they could hear my music.  Sadly, they couldn't handle a little face melting.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

Finally!


Battery is completely dead on both the buds and case. Going to be sitting on the charger for a while. Those buds really lock into the case, by the way. Holy wow.

Also brownie points for the abundance of metal on the case. It's been chilly outside, so everything is nice and cool to the touch.


----------



## alchemical

In the market for a new pair of running headphones - would any MW07 Go owners be able to confirm if they support AAC? I've read that the Plus doesn't, but seen conflicting reports on the Go. Much appreciated!


----------



## erockg

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Finally!
> 
> Battery is completely dead on both the buds and case. Going to be sitting on the charger for a while. Those buds really lock into the case, by the way. Holy wow.
> 
> Also brownie points for the abundance of metal on the case. It's been chilly outside, so everything is nice and cool to the touch.


Been here.  They're good.  They fit really well with the MTW2 tips IMO.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

alchemical said:


> In the market for a new pair of running headphones - would any MW07 Go owners be able to confirm if they support AAC? I've read that the Plus doesn't, but seen conflicting reports on the Go. Much appreciated!


SBC/aptX only. Sorry.


erockg said:


> Been here.  They're good.  They fit really well with the MTW2 tips IMO.


Ooooh good call. I'll keep that in mind.

I do like how the stock tips are color-matched. Cheap thrills, I guess. Got a kick out of my daughter's Edifiers having matching pink tips, too.


----------



## alchemical

miserybeforethemusic said:


> SBC/aptX only. Sorry.


Thanks for confirming, mate.


----------



## PixelSquish

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Finally!
> 
> Battery is completely dead on both the buds and case. Going to be sitting on the charger for a while. Those buds really lock into the case, by the way. Holy wow.
> 
> Also brownie points for the abundance of metal on the case. It's been chilly outside, so everything is nice and cool to the touch.



Good luck. Curious to see what you think. Mine are in my bag ready to take to Kohls with me tomorrow for an Amazon return. They have great features just don't have the punch I like. Plus the fact they got here barely charged unlike any other buds I've tried, I think tells me the drain bug is real.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

PixelSquish said:


> Good luck. Curious to see what you think. Mine are in my bag ready to take to Kohls with me tomorrow for an Amazon return. They have great features just don't have the punch I like. Plus the fact they got here barely charged unlike any other buds I've tried, I think tells me the drain bug is real.


I'll keep my fingers crossed for no issues. Looks like they loosely packed in sheets talking about the app, though, so I assume it's at least a new-ish batch. Would have assumed they'd be packed with the other paperwork otherwise.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

PixelSquish said:


> Good luck. Curious to see what you think. Mine are in my bag ready to take to Kohls with me tomorrow for an Amazon return. They have great features just don't have the punch I like. Plus the fact they got here barely charged unlike any other buds I've tried, I think tells me the drain bug is real.


So turns out it's not a bug. They even mention it shipping empty in the manual:


----------



## alchemical

Can anyone point to Melomania Touch stockists who ship internationally? Drawing a blank with any shipping to Australia.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

Technics case is still charging, but the buds are good to go for now. Running them on ANC at first and with no other adjustments to try to get a good initial impression on them. Here's what I've got:

These are, without a doubt, built with materials worthy of their asking price. Everything feels nice to the touch. Nothing creaks. It just feels _dense_. I approve. Have mixed feelings about the little L/R nub they put on each bud, but I imagine that's to help you figure out which ear is which without having to look.

Setup was equally easy; only the JBLs so far set up easier and that's because you have to first take the Technics out of their case for initial pairing (with the JBLs, you don't). Even the firmware update, though somewhat long, effortlessly worked. So far, so good. Hey, that case is still charging...I hope that's not going to be a regular problem, but I guess I can just leave them to charge overnight.

Technics even manages to carry the design language of the buds into their app. Hard to explain, but it's intuitive and well-designed. Still not finding a fault here.

How do they sound? They're not too shabby. At first listen, they're considerably bass-light compared to, say the MTs, but then you realize no one range seems to play above the other. In that sense, the AZ70W might be unapologetically neutral. Pretty cool that the Bass Boost has a very limited band, adding to impact without the bloat. Does collapse the stage a bit, though.

I can tell these are going to be a pair you have to sit with and get used to. The UEs were the same way. They're definitely not consumer-tuned and they won't hide any recording blemishes (admittedly, the UEs can mask bad recordings just a little better). Sometimes, that's exactly what I'm looking for.


----------



## PixelSquish

Couple downsides from the otherwise great sounding MT's. Transparent mode is really mediocre. Tested it out by turning it on and off when having talk radio or TV on in the same room. At 100% it just mostly turns on white noise. At 75% it's really not much better. The Technics crushed ambient mode, with the MTW2's in second place. Also the MT's don't click into the charging case as easily or reliably as pretty much any of the other buds I've tried. Apparently the right one didn't click in to charge even though it seemed like it, because just taking them out on a walk the left bud was 85% charged with the right bud 56% charged.


----------



## Canabuc

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Technics case is still charging, but the buds are good to go for now. Running them on ANC at first and with no other adjustments to try to get a good initial impression on them. Here's what I've got:
> 
> These are, without a doubt, built with materials worthy of their asking price. Everything feels nice to the touch. Nothing creaks. It just feels _dense_. I approve. Have mixed feelings about the little L/R nub they put on each bud, but I imagine that's to help you figure out which ear is which without having to look.
> 
> ...



For me the thing that made me dislike them was the fit. They are so bulbous that I could never maintain a secure fit as they stick out so far from the ears.
I hated the case. It looks premium but I never would get the buds seated correctly even when they looked correct. Makes the MT seem easy by comparison.
I loved female vocals on them but otherwise the sound did nothing for me.
Unlike the wow of the Sennheiser or the MT or even the JBL.
Honestly I find the Sony since it can be EQ'd with more effecr were a better value and gave up nothing to the Technics.


----------



## bladefd

PixelSquish said:


> Couple downsides from the otherwise great sounding MT's. Transparent mode is really mediocre. Tested it out by turning it on and off when having talk radio or TV on in the same room. At 100% it just mostly turns on white noise. At 75% it's really not much better. The Technics crushed ambient mode, with the MTW2's in second place. Also the MT's don't click into the charging case as easily or reliably as pretty much any of the other buds I've tried. Apparently the right one didn't click in to charge even though it seemed like it, because just taking them out on a walk the left bud was 85% charged with the right bud 56% charged.


Lots of people have an issue with the right bud in charging case. I'm pretty sure it's a slight MT case design issue. Be sure the red light turns on before you close the case. I'm used to it now so doesn't bother me anymore or take more than 2 seconds.

If the red light is not on then it's not charging, and you must wiggle them until red light comes on


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

Canabuc said:


> For me the thing that made me dislike them was the fit. They are so bulbous that I could never maintain a secure fit as they stick out so far from the ears.
> I hated the case. It looks premium but I never would get the buds seated correctly even when they looked correct. Makes the MT seem easy by comparison.
> I loved female vocals on them but otherwise the sound did nothing for me.
> Unlike the wow of the Sennheiser or the MT or even the JBL.
> Honestly I find the Sony since it can be EQ'd with more effecr were a better value and gave up nothing to the Technics.


Our ears are definitely not built the same. These lock right into place with the stock tips and they are legitimately the first TWS without a fin that don't budge once they're in.

That being said, they're absolute treble cannons if you don't have enough EQ to tame them. Swapping out the tips with some SpinFit CP360 and using Neutralizer has helped bring in a lot of the midrange that feels otherwise sucked out in stock form, but some of the sibilance I get on these tracks is either inherent to the dynamic driver itself or a byproduct of having to use AAC. These are definitely going to be an at-home pair unless ANC really is as good as they say it is.


----------



## Canabuc

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Our ears are definitely not built the same. These lock right into place with the stock tips and they are legitimately the first TWS without a fin that don't budge once they're in.
> 
> That being said, they're absolute treble cannons if you don't have enough EQ to tame them. Swapping out the tips with some SpinFit CP360 and using Neutralizer has helped bring in a lot of the midrange that feels otherwise sucked out in stock form, but some of the sibilance I get on these tracks is either inherent to the dynamic driver itself or a byproduct of having to use AAC. These are definitely going to be an at-home pair unless ANC really is as good as they say it is.


They did have good ANC. For me though I prefer the Sony for ANC and overall sound.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

Man, this is a real treat on the Technics. I definitely think these things were completely cut off at the knees from their in-app EQ limitations:


----------



## dj24 (Mar 8, 2021)

turbobb said:


> Finally got to test the 85t w/Jabra Link (both 370 and 380) but can't figure out how to enable Stereo audio quality w/the mics on (I've installed the Jabra Direct app and ensured all FW are updated). Under Win10 Sound Settings I have set the output and input device as Jabra Link and when I listen to music, it plays it only in mono mode. Once I set input to anything but the Jabra Link then I get back Stereo mode (but then it defeats the purpose of having an all-in-one solution via the 85t). Anyone have this working properly?



Can you tell me how or what you used to test mono/ stereo mode?  I have the 380 and I can try to replicate it on my Win 10 laptop and let you know.


miserybeforethemusic said:


> Don't think that'll work, but I honestly haven't tested it. What I meant is that call quality is significantly improved and people I'm on the call are very grateful for it. The barrier between that old BT sound-like-you're-at-the-end-of-a-hall-and-underwater sound is gone. Additionally, music quality for general listening when I'm not on calls is significantly improved. Finally, having the ability to EQ sound mid-call has been a major plus for people who are running sub-optimal conference call setups.
> 
> Also, the USB-C dongle is tiny and barely takes up more space than the plug itself.



I find the sound quality excellent for my Cisco Jabber work calls too.  I'm curious though if my 75t Actives apply any kind of noise cancellation during VOIP calls though while using the 380 as they definitely do on normal smartphone calls.  Do you think that's the case with your 85t?

By the way, keep at it with your other TWS sets.  It's a bitch to pair them the first time (make sure to first turn off the bluetooth setting on your computer) but eventually the 380 will see them under ''Available Devices".  Takes a good solid 10 or so minutes and the trick is to turn their pairing feature on (if they have one) and keep putting them back in their cases and taking them back out and pressing "Search" on the Jabra Direct software repeatedly.  Once you see them under" Available devices" you can easily choose "Connect" and you're good to go from there.  Know that the Connect option will not change to a connected status and the only time you'll know they're connected is when you get the audio confirmation from your TWS.  After that they'll automatically connect every time you take them out of their case.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

dj24 said:


> Do you think that's the case with your 85t?


You know, I'm not really sure. During one call, the other members could clearly hear birds that were chirping outside, but that just may have been a weird one for any ANC to address. Don't get complaints otherwise.


----------



## Kuli

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Our ears are definitely not built the same. These lock right into place with the stock tips and they are legitimately the first TWS without a fin that don't budge once they're in.
> 
> That being said, they're absolute treble cannons if you don't have enough EQ to tame them. Swapping out the tips with some SpinFit CP360 and using Neutralizer has helped bring in a lot of the midrange that feels otherwise sucked out in stock form, but some of the sibilance I get on these tracks is either inherent to the dynamic driver itself or a byproduct of having to use AAC. These are definitely going to be an at-home pair unless ANC really is as good as they say it is.


Mine fits in my ear securely too and no problem with seating them in the case even with memory foam tips. I love the neutral sound signature and detail retrieval. 

ANC or Ambient mode warms up the sound.


----------



## Canabuc

Kuli said:


> Mine fits in my ear securely too and no problem with seating them in the case even with memory foam tips. I love the neutral sound signature and detail retrieval.
> 
> ANC or Ambient mode warms up the sound.


They fit securely until you start doing anyworkouts then they squirm like fish on a hook!


----------



## tiagopinto

Canabuc said:


> The trIck with the touch controls is not to touch then by accident. Very quickly I have learned to handle it annual the buds from the top and bottom of the body avoiding the touch sensor.
> Can it them in and take them off or August them this way as there is a good are of surface to do so.
> I prefer the larger surface area compared to the jbl where 1/3 of time my touches don't register as I don't hit the sensor fully.



I too have gotten very used to this. You’ll have to get used to grabbing them by top and bottom. Touch controls are very sensitive, that’s true, but they work a charm. You can control everything on these. 



Womaz said:


> To put them back in the case correctly I have to take the large flanges off.......is everyone else finding they have to do this?



I too wear the Large fins and Large tips and no issues at all with fit in the ear or in the box. They do fit perfectly in both. 

@samandhi has said it before a couple of times and it always works: drop the buds from about half an inch from the box and they simply fall into place, every time. Just make sure the lights start blinking red and close the case. 

I wear these daily and I’m loving them.


----------



## AudioJunki3

Oluv's gadgets has a special tuned version of the Earfun Free Pro available to order now. I'm very tempted but I wasn't all that impressed with the original. 
Anyone else have thoughts on this?


----------



## tiagopinto

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Heh, that curve looks familiar



Usually I don’t touch stock curves. But a while ago you posted three interesting EQ profiles I’d like to test on the MT. I’m not finding them. Would you please re-share? Thanks.


----------



## tiagopinto

samandhi said:


> I felt the very same way when I first started listening to them. I am in a similar boat as you (spoiled a bit...) I come from planar headphones/IEMs and BA IEMs too. But, after finding the EQ I use, I just listened to them for a week or so, and they are sounding better to me, whether it is (the debated) burn-in, or brain/ear burn-in I do not know, but I agree with everything you noticed about these. Once you get the bass under control it does have very nice texture to it, though not as fast as something like a good BA or Planar. But, it just doesn't drown everything else out. I boost the highs and mids and subtract sub-bass (the main culprit), and boost the upper bass a bit to give it less rumble/boomy, and more thump. IMO this gives the perception that the bass is a bit tighter and faster (the way I love it).
> 
> It's a shame about the charging issue though. I have had 0 issues with mine, as long as I verify that the slow blinking light is on both of them before I close the case. I do hope you get it all squared away, as they ARE good (better than most I have listened to thus far) for TWS, even though out of the box they are not the tuning I prefer at all. I DO agree with you, that there is still a noticeable gap between TWS and even the next quality step up, wireless. I have a pair of Hifiman Deva (bluetooth) that are REALLY close to wired sound, so I hope the TWS category will catch up pretty soon.
> 
> One day soon, a company will do something like Hifiman has done (with their over ear phones), and create an audiophile grade TWS that is cheaper than most regular TWS. I believe this will start a trend that we will benefit from most.



Would you please share the EQ profile you’ve elected for the MT? Thanks.


----------



## Canabuc

tiagopinto said:


> I too have gotten very used to this. You’ll have to get used to grabbing them by top and bottom. Touch controls are very sensitive, that’s true, but they work a charm. You can control everything on these.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Does your case lid  creak at all when closed if your wired it at all. Also does it wiggle a bit when closed as of it's loose? 
Also when opening the case lid is it another it does it feel as if it's stuck like it's catching until our shattered a few millimeters and then opens normally?
I'm wondering if my case is normal. It seems to work just fine and send aligned when closed. Just worked if there is a defect that it will get worse over time it if these are just particularities in the design and I'm worried for nothing.


----------



## tiagopinto

Luke Skywalker said:


> Neutron is great on iOS too btw. Although the UI isn’t the best, it gives you a huge amount of control over things. Easily streams DSD files across a network



Care to elaborate on this Neutron solution, please? It’s a paid app, right? Worth it? Are there alternatives?
Thanks!


----------



## Caipirina (Mar 9, 2021)

I am not sure if I am seeking encouragement or 'talk me out of this', but I have the rare opportunity to get something NEW tomorrow. At a not totally ridiculous price (well, it's all relative, but since flying is out of the question, I have to take (or leave) what the local market has to offer)  ...
So, the bose quietcomfort earbuds ... I am a sucker for great ANC, and I like the Bose house sound .. I love my SSF and always wished they had the same ANC as the QC20  (there might be an old old post of mine in here saying that like 3 years ago)  ... and I really enjoy the stay-hear tips ...
From what I read / skimmed here so far, I am fully aware that they are not ideal (at all) for running, but ok, for that I can use my Sabbats ...
Basically I am considering using them to slowly replace my QC35 over ears as desk audio devices.
It appears that there is a slight hype consensus on YT that these are currently the 'best' ANC together with the MTW2 ...

For context, I already have way too many ANC buds, but they all come with their caveats .. and heck, I am a hoarder .. I mean, collector  Currently for daily walks I really love the Galaxy Beans. The Sony XM3 are very fit / seal depending and I barely dare moving with them. The appolos / tozos / bonola / dyplay / panasonics are all nice and such, but nothing really to fall in love with .. oh, and the APP have great ANC, play great with iOS .. and sound mainstream mediocre / safe for all genres ...

So, should i get the bose quietcomfort earbuds ... and why yes, why no 

Important Bonus question; has anyone tested these for watching movies on mac using VLC? Was there a lag?


----------



## 543293

AudioJunki3 said:


> Oluv's gadgets has a special tuned version of the Earfun Free Pro available to order now. I'm very tempted but I wasn't all that impressed with the original.
> Anyone else have thoughts on this?





Lorelock said:


> Three things the earfun free pro will never have outside of sound:
> 
> 1) previous track control
> 2) in-ear detection
> ...


----------



## tiagopinto (Mar 10, 2021)

alchemical said:


> Can anyone point to Melomania Touch stockists who ship internationally? Drawing a blank with any shipping to Australia.



I bought them directly from their website and, since I’m in Portugal, mine shipped from Germany. You can go to their website and choose your country. I’m almost sure they ship there.

Can’t help you local stockists though. You can surely ask them.

(Listening to the Shake Your Money Maker anniversary re-issue on them right now. I love these buds!)


----------



## Bhelpoori

miserybeforethemusic said:


> You know, I'm not really sure. During one call, the other members could clearly hear birds that were chirping outside, but that just may have been a weird one for any ANC to address. Don't get complaints otherwise.


I spent a while today with my 85Ts and testing stuff with my Macs, with Android and iPhone taking Teams and Zoom calls.

Jabra don't recommend using the 85T with a Mac and I can understand why. It works really well with Zoom and Teams to listen to calls but it isn't optimal for speaking, perhaps because I don't have an end-to-end Jabra connection. 
The microphone works with the Mac but two issues have bugged me: 
The microphone gain occasionally completely fails so you sometimes sound far away but sometimes it is too loud. Can't work out why either, which is bugging me.
The mute button doesn't work on Teams on Mac, and even with the headset button sync setting on Zoom it fails. 

The App on Android/iPhone continues to work whilst you use the Mac to deliver audio. I have found some benefit, if you have two devices in the Call Settings to turn Prioritise... on so that when in Teams/Zoom you are connected just to the device which Teams/Zoom is running on.
I found no issues when running Slack Calls, Zoom or Teams (sorry, haven't tried WebEx) on either Android 9 or iPhone. Mute, for example, worked perfectly.
I compared the microphone to the Airpod Pro and it is interesting the differences. The AIrpod tries to cancel the background noise whereas the 85T tends to focus on your voice at the expense of cutting out some of the background noise. This is best shown when it is windy where the Airpod Pro tries to cancel the wind noise but "loses" your voice, whereas the 85T keeps some wind noise but you can still be heard clearly. This may also explain the "birds in the background"
85T appears to support the later version of the Bluetooth spec that has HD Voice whereas the Airpod Pro doesn't.
The Bose 700 is still, by some distance, the best Bluetooth microphone for noise rejection and good for clarity. Side by Side with the 85t there's no comparison. The Bose also has a mute button but it mostly doesn't work, which the 85T is better at...


----------



## Canabuc

Melomania 1+ announced. Will have high end audio and app like the touch bit in the original form factor. And comes with foam tips.

Hmmmmmm.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic (Mar 9, 2021)

Bhelpoori said:


> The Bose 700 is still, by some distance, the best Bluetooth microphone for noise rejection and good for clarity. Side by Side with the 85t there's no comparison. The Bose also has a mute button but it mostly doesn't work, which the 85T is better at...


Makes a lot more sense now why so many people are buying up the 700s. I couldn't put my finger on why Bose brought them to market when they already have the QC, but the shift to working from home makes a lot more sense.

Wish I could help you on the other stuff, but web-based telephony/VoIP is far from one of my strong suits. I just know it took me a good while to be comfortable with using Bluetooth for it again as I was just having issue after issue trying to make the Audeze Mobius fit the purpose without a slew of pressure points (double entendre...those things are heavy). If I had my way with arranging where the desk is, I'd just go for a fully wired setup with studio cans and a SM7B for all my work calls, but the wife would probably throw me out of the house once she saw all the boom arms.


Canabuc said:


> Melomania 1+ announced. Will have high end audio and app like the touch bit in the original form factor. And comes with foam tips.
> 
> Hmmmmmm.


Why do you do this to me? I thought I was done with the Technics...

Product page for anybody remotely interested. Seems like a refresh of the Melomania 1 with app-based control. Honestly, not sure why they did this when the price is so close to the MT...
https://www.cambridgeaudio.com/usa/en/products/headphones/melomania-1-plus


----------



## Thesonofkrypton

Might as well spend that extra £10 here in the UK and get the Touch for the better fit.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic (Mar 10, 2021)

tiagopinto said:


> Would you please share the EQ profile you’ve elected for the MT? Thanks.


Sure thing. Here you go:


Spoiler: MT In-App EQ Settings


----------



## deuter

Aevum said:


> any recommendations on something small to sleep with ? im looking at something nice and cheap for noisy neighbours.


Get memory foam ear plugs, works a treat.


----------



## bladefd (Mar 9, 2021)

Canabuc said:


> Melomania 1+ announced. Will have high end audio and app like the touch bit in the original form factor. And comes with foam tips.
> 
> Hmmmmmm.


Seems about the same as MT but in the shape/design of the Melomania 1.

-USB Type-C charging
-Melomania app support
-High Performance Audio Mode

But bit cheaper than the MT and has their stock foam tip support. MT has bigger drivers though so I'm guessing MT will still be better (5.8mm on 1+, 7mm on MT).


----------



## C_Lindbergh (Mar 9, 2021)

Just got my CA MT...And there's a problem right away, the left earbud wont charge in the case 

I'll give them 1-2 tries to send me a working pair, because I really love the sound coming out of these.

I just can't believe that they're having these kinds of issues since this is not their first True Wireless earbuds.



bladefd said:


> Seems about the same as MT but in the shape/design of the Melomania 1.
> 
> -USB Type-C charging
> -Melomania app support
> ...



It doesn't have ambient mode though? I value this feature a lot


----------



## Bhelpoori

Soul_Viper said:


> so jabra elite 85t is your recommendation actually, right?
> 
> thanks for your mini-review my friend


I promised I'd reply to you on whether I would recommend after a few days. Here's my thoughts:

If you're in the Apple ecosystem exclusively then Airpods Pro are the better buy assuming roughly the same pricing: Slightly worse but still good ANC and battery life, much better transparency, better Apple integration and if you have a big iPad/watch video then Spatial audio is very nice, together with slightly better calls if you're not in a windy or very noisy place.
If you have Android then the whole Jabra package fitted my requirements perfectly. It is reliable, which in spite of my stress testing, is something quite unusual in my collection of TWS and headphones (e.g Bose for the continual 700 bugs...)... it does dual connections well - better than my Bose and the Sony XM4 over-ears.
I prefer the sound resolution of the Airpods but I can tune the tonality of the Jabras closer to my needs, especially using Waveform on Android. The Jabra's retain the EQ settings in the headphone so even on iPad or Mac/PC they still sound the same. 
The Jabra sound is quite good but isn't good enough that you want to listen to your collection again. It is, however, consistent across all devices... which is a major win for me as the Airpods don't do this given the different status of EQ in iOS, iPadOS and MacOS. 
I found the battery life for my use to be much better with the Jabras. I'm lucky to get 3 hours of calls out of the Airpods even at low volume and about 4'ish hours of music. I'm getting 5+ hours out of the Jabras and if I play music with ANC off then I can get 6 easily.
Fit after wearing them for a while is better for me with Jabra when walking (they don't move, whereas the AirPod Pro move in one ear just slighly enough to be annoying). Sitting down they both work well for me.
Controls are great because of the breadth and customisation and I like buttons rather than touch, but that's a personal preference. 
Jabra's app is better than the scattered, rather bizarre collection of different places in iOS that Apple have spread Airpods Pro controls. It is also slick, easy to use and works reliably.
Jabra support have been great for me. The 2 year warranty for free is a bonus. The ability to get a replacement case and tips/eargels for a reasonable price is something few companies do.
Summary:  If sound is paramount to your needs, look elsewhere. If you are in the Apple device world exclusively choose the Airpod Pro. If not, and you need good decent ANC then for me these are really difficult to beat right now.

P.S. Don't try to take Jabra's iOS App over to MacOS on M1 and run it. I tried:  It resulted in the Jabra app crashing and leaving the buds in a weird state afterwards...cured by resetting the buds.


----------



## bubsdaddy

Caipirina said:


> I am not sure if I am seeking encouragement or 'talk me out of this', but I have the rare opportunity to get something NEW tomorrow. At a not totally ridiculous price (well, it's all relative, but since flying is out of the question, I have to take (or leave) what the local market has to offer)  ...
> So, the bose quietcomfort earbuds ... I am a sucker for great ANC, and I like the Bose house sound .. I love my SSF and always wished they had the same ANC as the QC20  (there might be an old old post of mine in here saying that like 3 years ago)  ... and I really enjoy the stay-hear tips ...
> From what I read / skimmed here so far, I am fully aware that they are not ideal (at all) for running, but ok, for that I can use my Sabbats ...
> Basically I am considering using them to slowly replace my QC35 over ears as desk audio devices.
> ...


Can you easily return them? I am a Bose house sound fan also with the SS wireless and SSF in my running rotation. I bought the QC earbuds on day one as I have a local Bose store nearby. As everyone has mostly pointed out, they aren't great for running but you didn't intend using them for that purpose anyway. The sound is very good for a TWS. In the end, I travel so little now due to a job and location change 4 years ago and a global pandemic that I didn't see enough value in keeping another set roughly of $300 after tax Bose NC's as I already own the 35s and the QC20s. I know that doesn't help your intended use all that much but take from my opinion what you can. 

On a different note, I am just loving the Soundpeats Truefree2 for running. I use the largest tips and they don't sit very deep in my ear canal so the "runner's thump" is minimal and even more so after the sweat loosens them even further. The wing fins keep them in place and I never need to fiddle with them. I get no wind sound (which annoys me even more than the thump) and the I think the sound is very reminiscent of the Bose house sound. I have purchased several sets for friends who are just getting started running. Such a bargain at around $24.


----------



## CocaCola15 (Mar 9, 2021)

Canabuc said:


> Melomania 1+ announced. Will have high end audio and app like the touch bit in the original form factor. And comes with foam tips.
> 
> Hmmmmmm.


Ordered mine already, from Amazon. I love the M1s and really, despite all the other TW phones I have tried, the M1s sound is very very good, no EQ required. And the foam tips are, to me, what make them great. The original M1s had gone down to $79, but are now $99. Could be a price drop again with the M1+ arriving. I am going to sell off the Jabra 75t Active I bought recently (OB from Jabra), because I can't get them to fit properly without a lot of hassle. With the M1s, you get them in once with the foams tips and you are good. No ANC? No problem. No transparency? Don't use it. Anyway, this is quite a surprise from CA. Looking forward to hearing how they improved (hopefully) and already great sounding TW in-ear.

I owned the MTs, returned them. Connectivity issues and even with the new design, I didn't find them good enough to keep, owning the M1s. No, the M1s don't have all the features of many TW IEMs out there, but they are built like tanks, have great battery life and just sound great. Basic, simple pleasure. So hoping the M1+ takes them to another level.


----------



## dj24

dj24 said:


> 'Looking to get a small portable music player that has excellent bluetooth and gapless playback to pair with my Jabra Elite Active 75t during my workouts/ runs.  I was just going to pick up one of the newer version sansa players when I realized none of them do gapless anymore let alone having decent bluetooth performance.
> 
> Any recommendations?
> 
> Thanks!



Shameless bump.  Anyone?


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

dj24 said:


> Shameless bump.  Anyone?


Maybe something from HiBy? I don't know many DAPs that would use the newer Snapdragon silicon that supports the TWS+ standard.

I think most of us just use our phones.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

Day 2 with the Technics. I've put the stock tips back on them and pretty much exclusively use them in conjunction with Neutralizer. In contrast to the stock tuning, it's considerably more tolerable and sibilance only shows up on those days where the mastering engineer was just feeling overly spiteful with a recording.

Usually, I can wax poetic about this kinda stuff, but these little guys have shut me up in a way that honestly surprised me. They're really, really good. Like in a technical sense they just play things in a super-refined way. I know there's probably some heavy power of persuasion, but the Technics really do remind me of 90s-era living-room Hi-Fi gear, right down to the sound. And for anybody who claims these don't have bass, the hour of hardstyle I just thoroughly enjoyed would like to have a word with you.

I've learned these buds were definitely designed to twist into place with a single hand. They don't do well with deep insertion. Matter of fact, these feel extremely close to my iSines against the inner ear. I _really_ could have done without the little L/R indentations on each side of the part that rests against your ear, but my best guess is that Technics probably put that there to be intentionally annoying and keep users from trying to cram these too deep into their ears. Sure enough, you won't feel it at all when the fit is right, but it still digs at you during insertion/removal and I'm not really a fan.

Really wish UE would hurry up with sending out those replacement gels so I could revise my opinion on them. Based on memory, though, the Technics seem to be able to punch just a little harder, yet don't have the same upper-midrange resolution and staging/imaging that the UEs seem to pull off flawlessly. I'd have a really hard time choosing between these two if I had to and, honestly, the Technics kinda check all the boxes, minus support for Hi-Res (which is probably what gives the UEs that resolution edge).

So I'll take another stab at "the list." No qualifiers, just rankings:

1. Technics AZ70W (with Neutralizer)
2. UE FITS
3. Cambridge MT
4. Jabra 85t
5. JBL Club Pro+
6. Earfun Free Pro
7. Soundcore Liberty Air 2 Pro
8. M&D MW07 GO
9. Soundcore Liberty Air 2
10. Drop Move


----------



## jant71 (Mar 9, 2021)

@dj24  Maybe the Hiby R2 or Hidiz AP80. Double check the manuals for gapless. I have an AP80 but not sure I have anything gapless as it is mostly used for various podcasts. I know the Cowon Plenue D3 is gapless and has BT but the BT has given some trouble and others no real issue. Guess it would be decent but not great if you BT phones aren't good as far as antenna.


We also got a new vid since these are supposed to drop soon...


And a first look? at this...


----------



## PixelSquish

MT's sounding great again today but they are just not as a refined product as the MTW2 in other ways. While I have disabled the volume controls since the touch is just way too sensitive, it's still hard to touch these without activating the pause/unpause feature even though you try to grab from the top and bottom while avoiding the sides. Very finicky with the touch controls. One of the reviews I mentioned said you really gotta disable the volume controls otherwise these just won't work well.

So far testing the battery, these will last max 5 hours at High Quality if you listen to these at 85% volume or higher. Not 6 hours. Unless maybe the battery indicator is aggressively going down in the first hour and a half of listening to these.

Also, the fins. The band of the fins has an indentation on one side that matches a plastic nub on the bud, so that should line up. Problem is when that lines up, the microphone holes don't line up. That's a problem. I lined these up with the microphone holes and now transparency mode is pretty decent. But the fins aren't right. I have to email Cambridge and see if they send me new fins.

I did test these on a call today for the first time while walking the dog. Person on the other end did not complain about my voice, but they sounded off at times, kinda scratchy, also there was some digital interference here and there. Nothing that made them unintelligible, but never happened with the Senns. It was a VOIP call on Viber, which is how this person usually calls me, so I'll have to make more calls, who knows maybe it was something on the Viber side.


----------



## Caipirina

bubsdaddy said:


> Can you easily return them? I am a Bose house sound fan also with the SS wireless and SSF in my running rotation. I bought the QC earbuds on day one as I have a local Bose store nearby. As everyone has mostly pointed out, they aren't great for running but you didn't intend using them for that purpose anyway. The sound is very good for a TWS. In the end, I travel so little now due to a job and location change 4 years ago and a global pandemic that I didn't see enough value in keeping another set roughly of $300 after tax Bose NC's as I already own the 35s and the QC20s. I know that doesn't help your intended use all that much but take from my opinion what you can.
> 
> On a different note, I am just loving the Soundpeats Truefree2 for running. I use the largest tips and they don't sit very deep in my ear canal so the "runner's thump" is minimal and even more so after the sweat loosens them even further. The wing fins keep them in place and I never need to fiddle with them. I get no wind sound (which annoys me even more than the thump) and the I think the sound is very reminiscent of the Bose house sound. I have purchased several sets for friends who are just getting started running. Such a bargain at around $24.


Thanks for your input!
There is no easy return here, you can't even try them in shop .. as soon as you open the box, they can't sell as new anymore, so nope. Usually the prices here are crazy, like 50-100% on top of regular US price ... but with these, it is 'only' 10% .. and that actually would put them on par with the European 279€ price tag (Of course, now that I check, I see that amazon.de has them for 205€!)
I don;t really NEED another set, nor do I have any travel coming up ... but I happen to have a bit of money to burn (since there is nothing else to buy  )  and well, those popped up on my radar ...  How would you rate the ANC compared to the QC20? 

I will keep those soundpeats in mind ... right now they want 60$ fedex shipping to my location ...


----------



## PixelSquish

user error on the MT fins. I had switched the right and left. Woops.


----------



## bladefd (Mar 9, 2021)

PixelSquish said:


> user error on the MT fins. I had switched the right and left. Woops.


I think I mentioned that to you too several days ago. I had made the same mistake myself 

edit: I'm sorry, but it was to womaz not you. https://www.head-fi.org/threads/goi...e-we-there-yet.861024/page-2019#post-16222150


----------



## dj24

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Maybe something from HiBy? I don't know many DAPs that would use the newer Snapdragon silicon that supports the TWS+ standard.
> 
> I think most of us just use our phones.





jant71 said:


> @dj24  Maybe the Hiby R2 or Hidiz AP80. Double check the manuals for gapless. I have an AP80 but not sure I have anything gapless as it is mostly used for various podcasts. I know the Cowon Plenue D3 is gapless and has BT but the BT has given some trouble and others no real issue. Guess it would be decent but not great if you BT phones aren't good as far as antenna.


Thanks.  I was looking for something small and cheap for my workouts in the $100 range.  My last one that just finally gave out was the sansa clip+ and it crossed all the boxes that I needed.  As my user name implies, all my workout tracks are dj mixes where one track merges into the next one and any silence in between is just plain awful.  Iam bewildered that portable players don't include gapless playback as a feature anymore unless you move up to a much higher price range. My sansa clip+ had it and it only set me back about $30. Now not even the million chi-fi brands I see on Amazon offer gapless playback as an option.

I'm not sure if it's a matter of cost or something else entirely.  I didn't think I'd have so much trouble finding one that would include just gapless playback and bluetooth.  I guess if I'm not successful soon enough, I can always go the software route and use Audacity or the like and merge my mixes into one long track.  Tedious and hopefully unnecessary.


----------



## Bobbetybob

dj24 said:


> Thanks.  I was looking for something small and cheap for my workouts in the $100 range.  My last one that just finally gave out was the sansa clip+ and it crossed all the boxes that I needed.  As my user name implies, all my workout tracks are dj mixes where one track merges into the next one and any silence in between is just plain awful.  Iam bewildered that portable players don't include gapless playback as a feature anymore unless you move up to a much higher price range. My sansa clip+ had it and it only set me back about $30. Now not even the million chi-fi brands I see on Amazon offer gapless playback as an option.
> 
> I'm not sure if it's a matter of cost or something else entirely.  I didn't think I'd have so much trouble finding one that would include just gapless playback and bluetooth.  I guess if I'm not successful soon enough, I can always go the software route and use Audacity or the like and merge my mixes into one long track.  Tedious and hopefully unnecessary.


Shanling M0/Fiio M5 might be good options, they both have older Bluetooth versions (4.1/4.2) though.


----------



## tiagopinto

Canabuc said:


> Does your case lid  creak at all when closed if your wired it at all. Also does it wiggle a bit when closed as of it's loose?
> Also when opening the case lid is it another it does it feel as if it's stuck like it's catching until our shattered a few millimeters and then opens normally?
> I'm wondering if my case is normal. It seems to work just fine and send aligned when closed. Just worked if there is a defect that it will get worse over time it if these are just particularities in the design and I'm worried for nothing.



You have a point there, the case looks premium but it’s build is not the strongest. Normally, when I sense something is not built tough, I tend not to fiddle with it too much because, whatever faults it has, they get worse and it won’t last as long. 
The details you describe are accurate but honestly I just don’t go “forcing” it. “It works fine and aligned” so let it stay that way for as long as possible. If it fails, there’s always warranty.


----------



## C_Lindbergh

Canabuc said:


> Does your case lid  creak at all when closed if your wired it at all. Also does it wiggle a bit when closed as of it's loose?
> Also when opening the case lid is it another it does it feel as if it's stuck like it's catching until our shattered a few millimeters and then opens normally?
> I'm wondering if my case is normal. It seems to work just fine and send aligned when closed. Just worked if there is a defect that it will get worse over time it if these are just particularities in the design and I'm worried for nothing.



This was exactly my experience with the case of the CA MT...I could make the top wiggle very easy once it was closed, never had that on any other TWS... 

The quality control of these are really bad :/


----------



## tiagopinto

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Why do you do this to me?



Hahahaha...



miserybeforethemusic said:


> Honestly, not sure why they did this when the price is so close to the MT...



I guess they’re just saying “we’re all about sound, so whatever form you like, we have options. If you liked these, now you’ll love them”. 

I wouldn’t be surprised if they were planning on a “more complete” higher-end third option. The market is literally flooded with options, too many in my opinion, but it’s also part of the product evolution. We’ll be here to witness and rave and rant about it.


----------



## tiagopinto

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Sure thing. Here you go:
> 
> 
> Spoiler: MT In-App EQ Settings



Can’t see the photos...


----------



## samandhi

tiagopinto said:


> Would you please share the EQ profile you’ve elected for the MT? Thanks.





Or, if you want more detail, this is pretty much the same curve with added treble:



I still prefer the first one best.


----------



## Canabuc (Mar 10, 2021)

tiagopinto said:


> You have a point there, the case looks premium but it’s build is not the strongest. Normally, when I sense something is not built tough, I tend not to fiddle with it too much because, whatever faults it has, they get worse and it won’t last as long.
> The details you describe are accurate but honestly I just don’t go “forcing” it. “It works fine and aligned” so let it stay that way for as long as possible. If it fails, there’s always warranty.


Thanks. Just want to be sure that it is not defective. Some cases like the JBL Jabra Sony and Sennheiser are very solid.
The Technics was not this isn't though it looks premium.
Fiil isn't.
I can live with it but if this was a defect and other cases were more solid, then  I am in the return window would return for a new pair.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

tiagopinto said:


> Can’t see the photos...


You've got to look at previous posts and find them again. I've tried fiddling with image posting about five different ways and they all end up messed up. Sorry.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

@dj24 think this might suit your needs:
https://store.hiby.com/products/hiby-r3-pro

BT 5.0 and 2-way LDAC, plus an Android OS should at least give you the ability to have modern-ish Bluetooth and whatever app you like for gapless, though HiBy makes a great app on its own and that's the one that's cooked into the DAP. There's also a slightly more premium model with dual Sabre ES9218P DACs for those who are firmly in team ESS. Think it runs you an extra $10, so they're not asking too much, in my opinion.

Worth looking into, at least.


----------



## Caipirina

Caipirina said:


> I am not sure if I am seeking encouragement or 'talk me out of this', but I have the rare opportunity to get something NEW tomorrow. At a not totally ridiculous price (well, it's all relative, but since flying is out of the question, I have to take (or leave) what the local market has to offer)  ...
> So, the bose quietcomfort earbuds ... I am a sucker for great ANC, and I like the Bose house sound .. I love my SSF and always wished they had the same ANC as the QC20  (there might be an old old post of mine in here saying that like 3 years ago)  ... and I really enjoy the stay-hear tips ...
> From what I read / skimmed here so far, I am fully aware that they are not ideal (at all) for running, but ok, for that I can use my Sabbats ...
> Basically I am considering using them to slowly replace my QC35 over ears as desk audio devices.
> ...


So, I got the Bose QC buds today and so far: oh boy! It feels like I have reached my personal endgame! 
In terms of fit / sound / ANC this is pretty exactly what I wanted! This is IMHO the comfort & sound of the SSF paired with the fantastic ANC exceeding the QC 20.
They even added volume control on the bud(s) with a firmware update. 
now, if they could somehow make the switch between sources easier (phone to laptop etc), that one still hurts. 
and yes, the case & the buds are bulky ...


----------



## Rizorith (Mar 10, 2021)

Canabuc said:


> Melomania 1+ announced. Will have high end audio and app like the touch bit in the original form factor. And comes with foam tips.
> 
> Hmmmmmm.


Strange, it's only $10 less than the touch and at least by the specs, seems more like the original but with the app and amplification of the touch. Drivers are same size as the 1.

I'm wondering if they are increasing the price point in these, or perhaps just new item price.

Either way, doesn't seems to be a reason to but these over the touch


----------



## samandhi (Mar 10, 2021)

Here are the screenshots of the Photos that @miserybeforethemusic  posted.


----------



## Bhelpoori

Caipirina said:


> So, I got the Bose QC buds today and so far: oh boy! It feels like I have reached my personal endgame!
> In terms of fit / sound / ANC this is pretty exactly what I wanted! This is IMHO the comfort & sound of the SSF paired with the fantastic ANC exceeding the QC 20.
> They even added volume control on the bud(s) with a firmware update.
> now, if they could somehow make the switch between sources easier (phone to laptop etc), that one still hurts.
> and yes, the case & the buds are bulky ...


Glad you like them. One of the reasons I ended up getting the Jabra 85t is that Bose said in their forums that they can’t do dual Bluetooth connections because of the hardware they choose. I therefore doubt they can make switching easier. 

It is a pity since everyone tells me they have the best ANC in TWS so still may get them if the price here drops to something reasonable (it was $425 last time I looked).


----------



## tinyman392

Bhelpoori said:


> Glad you like them. One of the reasons I ended up getting the Jabra 85t is that Bose said in their forums that they can’t do dual Bluetooth connections because of the hardware they choose. I therefore doubt they can make switching easier.
> 
> It is a pity since everyone tells me they have the best ANC in TWS so still may get them if the price here drops to something reasonable (it was $425 last time I looked).


Sony is another idea as well if you want really good ANC.  Though I don't know how well the multi-connection is.  If you're in the Apple ecosystem the APP would be an obvious choice.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

Bhelpoori said:


> Glad you like them. One of the reasons I ended up getting the Jabra 85t is that Bose said in their forums that they can’t do dual Bluetooth connections because of the hardware they choose. I therefore doubt they can make switching easier.
> 
> It is a pity since everyone tells me they have the best ANC in TWS so still may get them if the price here drops to something reasonable (it was $425 last time I looked).


Technics' ANC is pretty stellar as well. I've been thoroughly impressed at how many household sounds it eliminates...not masks...eliminates. Pretty fun to be standing right next to a running dryer and watch it go from full whirr to nothing at the touch of a button. At least then you might be able to get it shipped from Japan vice the USA...could be cheaper in the end.

I know it doesn't have the dual-connection piece of the 85t, but I've found that to be more of a hindrance than a help. Even after adding the Link 380, when multiple things start trying to play on top of each other (i.e. getting a phone call while in the middle of a conference call). Instead, the Technics can just disconnect/reconnect directly from the new host device and it's almost just as fast. Granted, you've already picked up the 85t, but others might appreciate the info as well.

Can't speak on the Sony. I could never push myself to get them, even after prices started dropping. Maybe once the BX does another price drop and it truly goes <$200.


----------



## pk4425

Once I tried Moondrop Starfield, I decided to ditch TWS altogether. The Starfields are better than any TWS earphone I've heard, including the very enjoyable and well-reviewed Cambridge Audio Melomania 1 and Lypertek Tevi.

I've decided that I'll use some $50 and under TWS Chi-fi buds for podcasts and calls while doing chores. But if I'm listening to music, which I usually do while relaxing and not working, then sound quality is paramount. And the Starfield proved to me again that wired IEMs still sound better than TWS earphones at the same price point and often above.


----------



## C_Lindbergh

pk4425 said:


> Once I tried Moondrop Starfield, I decided to ditch TWS altogether. The Starfields are better than any TWS earphone I've heard, including the very enjoyable and well-reviewed Cambridge Audio Melomania 1 and Lypertek Tevi.
> 
> I've decided that I'll use some $50 and under TWS Chi-fi buds for podcasts and calls while doing chores. But if I'm listening to music, which I usually do while relaxing and not working, then sound quality is paramount. And the Starfield proved to me again that wired IEMs still sound better than TWS earphones at the same price point and often above.



Congrats? That's the whole thing about TWS, you sacrifice a bit of SQ for convinence and portability. 

However there are a few TWS that punches way above it's price tag, like the Melomania Touch.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

pk4425 said:


> Once I tried Moondrop Starfield, I decided to ditch TWS altogether. The Starfields are better than any TWS earphone I've heard, including the very enjoyable and well-reviewed Cambridge Audio Melomania 1 and Lypertek Tevi.
> 
> I've decided that I'll use some $50 and under TWS Chi-fi buds for podcasts and calls while doing chores. But if I'm listening to music, which I usually do while relaxing and not working, then sound quality is paramount. And the Starfield proved to me again that wired IEMs still sound better than TWS earphones at the same price point and often above.


No matter how good the Starfield (or any other IEM for that matter) sounds, I can never ignore:

The cord wrapped around my ears
The knowledge that I'm tethered to another device
Maintenance of multiple connection points
Finding good device "synergy" because impedance can be a real pain sometimes, especially with Chi-Fi equipment
And that's coming from someone who served 12 years and had plenty of problem when trying to do things like clean a bilge with a wired set. Younger, dumber me thought there was no issue doing that with a set of Shure SE530 and I had to field-medic those things ten ways east of Sunday.

Moral of the story is there's a use case for _both, _and it seems like every 100 posts or so that someone else comes in and says "TWS Bad, IEM Good" rather than even attempt to keep things within the context of the thread title.

Are we there yet? I'd argue yes. Bluetooth protocols have significantly bridged the gap in wired/wireless throughput since even aptX was initially announced. Both major players and boutique brands have functional, successful, quality-built products (with some exceptions in the mix) that we get the privilege of talking about on here, whenever we want. aptX Adaptive-capable sets are beginning to roll out. HiBy's even willing to step outside of the mainstream and worked on their own Hi-Res-capable BT protocol.

It's an exciting time for TWS.


----------



## pholcus1975

Frankly, it's a sort of personal taste, but I don't find Moondrop better than Melomania Touch. They sound different but Touch (and M1 also) sound exceptionally good, even compared to some wired (hifiman re600, that went for 400 $ when launched, and Soundmagic e80). M1 almost made me want to sell my Plenue M1, so good as they are. I didn't sell it, because for some critical listening I just got Final Audio A4000.
But surely I will never bring it with me on the go or on vacation. M1 and MT are so good it's my portable setup now. Plus, there's the convenience of having all my collection always with me (uapp+ vpn+nas)


----------



## pk4425 (Mar 10, 2021)

C_Lindbergh said:


> Congrats? That's the whole thing about TWS, you sacrifice a bit of SQ for convinence and portability.
> 
> However there are a few TWS that punches way above it's price tag, like the Melomania Touch.


True. I haven't tried the Touch, as I'm waiting for more steady confirmation that firmware updates have fixed the myriad connectivity problems upon release. The Melomania 1's sound terrific for $100, but not as good as the Starfield's at $109.

Guess I'll just tuck the wire under my shirt, for now. Maybe I'll pick up a Moondrop wireless cable or go for the Melomania 1's or Touch's down the line.


miserybeforethemusic said:


> No matter how good the Starfield (or any other IEM for that matter) sounds, I can never ignore:
> 
> The cord wrapped around my ears
> The knowledge that I'm tethered to another device
> ...


I never said, "TWS bad; IEM good." I said I have decided I'm using TWS only for podcasts during chores and using wired -- whether IEM or over-ear -- for musical enjoyment since the sound quality is better to me.

No question TWS has drastically improved in quality over the past years, and the use cases for TWS continue to grow by the day. I've enjoyed many of the TWS I've tried in the last six months, a number that's approaching double digits. But for_ me, _I'm willing to live with a wire to get better sound quality at a comparable price.

That's it.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

pk4425 said:


> I never said, "TWS bad; IEM good." I said I have decided I'm using TWS only for podcasts during chores and using wired -- whether IEM or over-ear -- for musical enjoyment since the sound quality is better to me.


That's fair and I'm sorry if I came across a little heated. I'm definitely into the double digits at this point as well and have seen a steady evolution across the board. Perhaps you won't find your stunner at the $100 price point, but it's all a game of economics and asking a manufacturer to more or less eat the cost of the added complexity in design a TWS provides over a wired pair seemed a little silly.

In this regard, I think the MT and Starfield are probably more direct competitors than you'd think; once you factor in what the BT, app development, and case design ran, Cambridge probably spent about as much on raw hardware as Moondrop did. Yes, there are a good amount of pairs that significantly trail the pack, but the margin is very close now.


----------



## samandhi

miserybeforethemusic said:


> No matter how good the Starfield (or any other IEM for that matter) sounds, I can never ignore:
> 
> The cord wrapped around my ears
> The knowledge that I'm tethered to another device
> ...


I would agree with almost everything you said, except.... I would argue that TWS aren't there yet, wireless is closer, but still NOT quite... I DO like where the prices of TWS is heading. It's more affordable than when there were only a few names out there, but the sound  quality is just not close (if I'm to be honest). There are a lot of "great" sounding TWS out there, but they really can't compare to a good set of IEMs. This is not really a fair statement though, because (normally) you would need to pay a large amount to get a set that are THAT noticeably better (leaving out some of the great Chi-fi stuff like Tin Hifi P1 <heavenly sound>). The sound is good, just not as refined. I AM pretty spoiled though, listening to audiophile grade headphones destroys one's ability to go back to something like "Skullcandy" LOL.

On the wireless front, though I have to do some serious critical listening to hear a difference sometimes. I have a set of Hifiman Deva, and I CAN hear a difference between wired and BT, but I gotta' say, it is not large at all, and might even just be the different coloring added by the amp of my DAP as opposed to the BT amp/DAC. 

BUT.... I am not complaining about TWS (yet), and am content to keep trying new ones until I find some I REALLY like. I say not yet, because if the industry becomes stagnant and decides they are good enough, THEN I will complain... 

On a shocking front, I have found a new winner for me (outta' the ones I have so far). You won't believe it, but it is actually the Hifiman TWS600. I can see now why they were originally $199 (since dropped all the way to $50). They have the capability/technicalities to be amazing sounding, just not out of the box. Out of the box they are SOOOO mid forwards that the upper mids (especially female vocals and high males) not only dominate all, but are shrill to the point of pain. 

Now, I have been able to EQ that part down and they do sound good, but I tried something new the other day, and now they are absolutely amazing. Yeah ya' have to work at it a bit to get them there, but for $50..... Anyhow, I have used Neutron for a while now, but didn't realize it had something called Auto-EQ. I found there was a profile for the TWS600 and downloaded it. They sound terrific (for those that like the Harmon curve), but I wasn't done there. When a headphone/IEM has well textured and refined bass, I DO like to beef it up a bit, and I always like more treble (it brings out details if it is well implemented on the driver), so in addition to the profile, I set up the following on a 10 band EQ (in Neutron player): 

31HZ = +10db
62Hz = +5db
125Hz = +2db
The rest at 0 until you get to:

8K = +4db
16K = +7db
It is not as much of a V as you might think because of the mid forward presentation of the TWS600 already. If you are using android and don't want to pay for the Neutron app, you can install an app called Wavelet, which has the same profiles for free. You can pay to unlock the rest of the functions, but they aren't very good. This app is system wide, so you can set "Auto-EQ" and it will work with any app (that I have come across), then use whatever EQ besides that you want to. I haven't found a profile for Nuarl or MT yet, but I am sure there will be one at some point.

Sorry to run on so long, just thought I would share...


----------



## DJ XtAzY

Headphones.com just dropped a comparison review between all the Samsung Galaxy Buds, Buds+, and Pro.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic (Mar 10, 2021)

samandhi said:


> On a shocking front, I have found a new winner for me (outta' the ones I have so far). You won't believe it, but it is actually the Hifiman TWS600. I can see now why they were originally $199 (since dropped all the way to $50). They have the capability/technicalities to be amazing sounding, just not out of the box. Out of the box they are SOOOO mid forwards that the upper mids (especially female vocals and high males) not only dominate all, but are shrill to the point of pain.
> 
> Now, I have been able to EQ that part down and they do sound good, but I tried something new the other day, and now they are absolutely amazing. Yeah ya' have to work at it a bit to get them there, but for $50..... Anyhow, I have used Neutron for a while now, but didn't realize it had something called Auto-EQ. I found there was a profile for the TWS600 and downloaded it. They sound terrific (for those that like the Harmon curve), but I wasn't done there. When a headphone/IEM has well textured and refined bass, I DO like to beef it up a bit, and I always like more treble (it brings out details if it is well implemented on the driver), so in addition to the profile, I set up the following on a 10 band EQ (in Neutron player):
> 
> ...


Sounds very similar to initial impressions I had with the Technics, but you put them into words better than I could. At least they've managed to mellow out after a day or two and I think using a PEEK diaphragm, coated or otherwise, might have been part of the reason why. I can now run them with stock tips and no EQ without the same sibilance issues I had on Day 1.

Wish I could get behind the Hifiman, but I've had so many build quality issues with that brand that it's hard to plunk down more change for it. I'm really surprised my third-hand HE-400i haven't suffered from the broken yoke issue, but my RE-400 went kaput after only a week or two of commuting (terrible joint construction for all the insulated wire ends). Positively love their double-flange tips, though. Managed to keep my set even though the earbuds are long gone.

Unfortunately, they're wiped out on the manufacturer's website for that $50 deal or I might have just ordered anyway. Looks like Audio46 has them for $100, but I'm really apprehensive to pull the trigger even at that price.

On another note: the Final TWS tips I ordered from MTMTaudio apparently ship from Portland OR, not Hong Kong (major plus). Hopefully I'll get them by Monday. Weather isn't too fun on the west coast today, so I'm not too optimistic USPS is going to go the extra mile on this one.

I did buy Neutron, by the way. Nice companion to UAPP since it's still being squirrely with volume control on almost all of the TWS pairs. How did you figure out the Auto-EQ?


----------



## Canabuc

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Technics' ANC is pretty stellar as well. I've been thoroughly impressed at how many household sounds it eliminates...not masks...eliminates. Pretty fun to be standing right next to a running dryer and watch it go from full whirr to nothing at the touch of a button. At least then you might be able to get it shipped from Japan vice the USA...could be cheaper in the end.
> 
> I know it doesn't have the dual-connection piece of the 85t, but I've found that to be more of a hindrance than a help. Even after adding the Link 380, when multiple things start trying to play on top of each other (i.e. getting a phone call while in the middle of a conference call). Instead, the Technics can just disconnect/reconnect directly from the new host device and it's almost just as fast. Granted, you've already picked up the 85t, but others might appreciate the info as well.
> 
> Can't speak on the Sony. I could never push myself to get them, even after prices started dropping. Maybe once the BX does another price drop and it truly goes <$200.



Sony XM3 ANC is killer. Like you to turn it on a!d whoosh sounds disappear. Other buds just sort of take some of the noise away.
I really do like the overall sound of Sony and prefer the treble to the MT.

Overall I think I love the JBL sound best overall across widest range of music. Just wish I would have a more secure fit as they are the least secure between them Sony MT and sennheisers.

Heard the cp1025 Spinfit meant for airpods pro are a good option for them.
Gonna try. If that works think the other buds all go back including the MT.
They are that good sounding.
The MT just have that locked in fit though worse passive isolation .


----------



## erockg

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Sounds very similar to initial impressions I had with the Technics, but you put them into words better than I could. At least they've managed to mellow out after a day or two and I think using a PEEK diaphragm, coated or otherwise, might have been part of the reason why. I can now run them with stock tips and no EQ without the same sibilance issues I had on Day 1.
> 
> Wish I could get behind the Hifiman, but I've had so many build quality issues with that brand that it's hard to plunk down more change for it. I'm really surprised my third-hand HE-400i haven't suffered from the broken yoke issue, but my RE-400 went kaput after only a week or two of commuting (terrible joint construction for all the insulated wire ends). Positively love their double-flange tips, though. Managed to keep my set even though the earbuds are long gone.
> 
> ...


I'll never go back to wired.  I tried, but always come back to my TWS.  I've tried most, if not all of the high end TWS and have so many that to my ears sound just as good as all the wired I've owned over the years.  The tech just keeps getting better.  I also can't spend on cheap chi-fi anymore.  I'm always disappointed by build quality.  I know most, if not all, are assembled in China, but I have no problem spending on the bigger brands.  Just one man's opinion.  I have the M1+ and the new Libratone Air+ on the way this week.  Fingers crossed.  Also, can't stop emailing Devialet every other day about the date for the Gemini re-release.  I miss them every day they're gone.


----------



## samandhi

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Sounds very similar to initial impressions I had with the Technics, but you put them into words better than I could. At least they've managed to mellow out after a day or two and I think using a PEEK diaphragm, coated or otherwise, might have been part of the reason why. I can now run them with stock tips and no EQ without the same sibilance issues I had on Day 1.
> 
> Wish I could get behind the Hifiman, but I've had so many build quality issues with that brand that it's hard to plunk down more change for it. I'm really surprised my third-hand HE-400i haven't suffered from the broken yoke issue, but my RE-400 went kaput after only a week or two of commuting (terrible joint construction for all the insulated wire ends). Positively love their double-flange tips, though. Managed to keep my set even though the earbuds are long gone.
> 
> ...


I haven't rules out the Technics yet, but I am awaiting more stories about them. The one common thing I have read about them that is a deal breaker for me is the constant battery drain. My Bose Soundsport Free have done that since day one, and Bose has NOT fixed them in all that time. Glad to know they sound good to ya' though. Please keep us updated as/when you find something new, break-in better, etc... 

Yeah, I have read a great many horror stories about the QC of Hifiman, but to be honest, I have not had any issues whatsoever. I have the HE400S (updated version 3.5 plugs), the Deva I mentioned earlier, and the TWS600. Maybe I have been lucky, but of the stories I have read, I haven't read about any issues with those three that I own (only by happenstance, not purposeful).  

Knowing what I now know, I STILL wouldn't hesitate to buy them for $100. Think of it this way, all the others you buy have to be tuned to your ear anyhow. Well so do these, and I would argue that the technicalities of the driver blow a lot of other TWS out there, out of the water. But I digress, because this is all just my opinion. I WOULD like to try the TWS800 too, but I have read good AND bad things about them, and for the price, I want to make damn sure I will like them... 

OOH! let us know when you get them and test them out, I am curious to know about them, as I think the Final E tip work on more of my IEMs/TWS than any others commonly do.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

Canabuc said:


> Just wish I would have a more secure fit as they are the least secure between them Sony MT and sennheisers.


Did you try inserting the JBLs similar to IEMs (aka pulling back on your ear to straighten the canal on insertion)? The JBLs have had the most IEM-like fit of all the TWS I own; everything else seems to favor a shallower insertion and once the JBLs are in, they're locked for me. Worth looking into.


erockg said:


> I'll never go back to wired.  I tried, but always come back to my TWS.  I've tried most, if not all of the high end TWS and have so many that to my ears sound just as good as all the wired I've owned over the years.  The tech just keeps getting better.  I also can't spend on cheap chi-fi anymore.  I'm always disappointed by build quality.  I know most, if not all, are assembled in China, but I have no problem spending on the bigger brands.  Just one man's opinion.  I have the M1+ and the new Libratone Air+ on the way this week.  Fingers crossed.  Also, can't stop emailing Devialet every other day about the date for the Gemini re-release.  I miss them every day they're gone.


I can share your sentiment. As I speak, my 6XX, iSine 10, Mobius, Aeon Flow Closed (v1), and LCD-2C are all staring me in the face, collecting dust. Are all of them technically better performers than my TWS? Arguably, yes. They're just nowhere near as day-to-day usable as the TWS have been. When you have two children and a never-ending "honey-do" list, you really don't get the ability to sit down and enjoy music...ever.

At this rate, the "only" pairs I have still on their way are the Edifier TWS1 Pro (shipping from China), Status Between Pro, and Noble Falcon Pro. Edifier's shipping from China, NFPs just cleared NY customs this morning, and the Status aren't estimated to arrive until April. Curious to see impressions on what you're waiting on. Maybe I'll finally have enough of a lull between "new" pairs to be able to submit my Q30 impressions to Soundcore


----------



## erockg (Mar 11, 2021)

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Did you try inserting the JBLs similar to IEMs (aka pulling back on your ear to straighten the canal on insertion)? The JBLs have had the most IEM-like fit of all the TWS I own; everything else seems to favor a shallower insertion and once the JBLs are in, they're locked for me. Worth looking into.
> 
> I can share your sentiment. As I speak, my 6XX, iSine 10, Mobius, Aeon Flow Closed (v1), and LCD-2C are all staring me in the face, collecting dust. Are all of them technically better performers than my TWS? Arguably, yes. They're just nowhere near as day-to-day usable as the TWS have been. When you have two children and a never-ending "honey-do" list, you really don't get the ability to sit down and enjoy music...ever.
> 
> At this rate, the "only" pairs I have still on their way are the Edifier TWS1 Pro (shipping from China), Status Between Pro, and Noble Falcon Pro. Edifier's shipping from China, NFPs just cleared NY customs this morning, and the Status aren't estimated to arrive until April. Curious to see impressions on what you're waiting on. Maybe I'll finally have enough of a lull between "new" pairs to be able to submit my Q30 impressions to Soundcore


I keep waiting for those NFP's to come back in stock.  I usually sell off my stuff that starts to collect dust before they lose equity.  I listen when my son's in school and while working from home.  When the storm arrives at the end of the day, game over.  The honey-do list.  Classic.  I just get called into every room of the house for every reason under the sun.  That's my job I guess... after the music stops.


----------



## erockg

Canabuc said:


> Sony XM3 ANC is killer. Like you to turn it on a!d whoosh sounds disappear. Other buds just sort of take some of the noise away.
> I really do like the overall sound of Sony and prefer the treble to the MT.
> 
> Overall I think I love the JBL sound best overall across widest range of music. Just wish I would have a more secure fit as they are the least secure between them Sony MT and sennheisers.
> ...


The ANC on those Sonys IS great.  I just could never for my life get a good fit/seal with them.  Really hope gen 2 fixes that.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

samandhi said:


> I haven't rules out the Technics yet, but I am awaiting more stories about them. The one common thing I have read about them that is a deal breaker for me is the constant battery drain. My Bose Soundsport Free have done that since day one, and Bose has NOT fixed them in all that time. Glad to know they sound good to ya' though. Please keep us updated as/when you find something new, break-in better, etc...
> 
> Yeah, I have read a great many horror stories about the QC of Hifiman, but to be honest, I have not had any issues whatsoever. I have the HE400S (updated version 3.5 plugs), the Deva I mentioned earlier, and the TWS600. Maybe I have been lucky, but of the stories I have read, I haven't read about any issues with those three that I own (only by happenstance, not purposeful).
> 
> ...


I absolutely will and you make a lot of valid points on the Hifiman. They are consistently good performers from the midrange-up, for what it's worth and I'm not afraid to give credit where credit's due. While those HE-400i are so bass-light out of the box that you need to listen to them in an anechoic chamber to pull out bass detail, they EQ impressively well. Matter of fact, that was the pair that solidified my faith in Roon. Maybe I'll request a price check on the TWS600 with Audio46 to see if they'll go for it. If they go for it, I'll take the hint and order away.

So far, no perceived issues with battery drain, but I've been using them so frequently, I don't think I'd notice. Haven't had them die on me yet, fwiw.


erockg said:


> *I keep waiting for those NPF's to come back in stock*.


@clerkpalmer wink wink



> I listen when my son's in school and while working from home.  When the storm arrives at the end of the day, game over. The honey-do list.  Classic.  I just get called into every room of the house for every reason under the sun.  That's my job I guess... after the music stops.


Story of my life. Thanks to over a decade in a submarine engine room, my ears are basically incompatible with any of the Hearthrough options, though I still take advantage of them to help with that congested-ear feeling. It's way more effective for me to have a one-ear solution so I can hear what my next involuntary tasking is going to be, about five seconds after I've sat down from finishing the previous one.

Today, it was building a planter for her succulents and trying to salvage her seedlings from the heaviest random hailstorm Los Angeles has seen in years...while she was out getting her nails done. Lasted a whopping 10 minutes, but still took out one of our cheap shelving units. Win-win: get to clean a bunch of broken pottery _and _test out IP ratings on TWS at the same time. EFPs handled it just fine, though.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

Figured out the AutoEQ presets with Neutron. For anybody else interested, looks like someone put together a nice, graphical tutorial on the process. I manually entered everything the first time for the Technics; turns out I didn't even need to do that (hint: look for "Frequency Response Correction"). Looks like now, as long as your TWS/IEM/whatever are loaded into jaakkopasanen's Github, they'll be available to you within Neutron:

https://neutroncode.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=6134&sid=741112d452f86455a3143e214d3b051e

Tried it out with the Technics while playing a 24/96 Qobuz-bought copy of Tool's _Fear Inoculum_. Gives them a lot of grunt back, but does smear things in the upper midrange a bit. Guitar tonality is significantly improved, but I think some of the magic in drum sounds fell by the weyside as a result.

Super nifty; thanks @samandhi for the suggestion!


----------



## pk4425

samandhi said:


> I would agree with almost everything you said, except.... I would argue that TWS aren't there yet, wireless is closer, but still NOT quite... I DO like where the prices of TWS is heading. It's more affordable than when there were only a few names out there, but the sound  quality is just not close (if I'm to be honest). There are a lot of "great" sounding TWS out there, but they really can't compare to a good set of IEMs. This is not really a fair statement though, because (normally) you would need to pay a large amount to get a set that are THAT noticeably better (leaving out some of the great Chi-fi stuff like Tin Hifi P1 <heavenly sound>). The sound is good, just not as refined. I AM pretty spoiled though, listening to audiophile grade headphones destroys one's ability to go back to something like "Skullcandy" LOL.



I think you're on to something with the IEM and TWS landscape. One of the reasons IEMs have progressed and, frankly, are such an exciting market segment right now is the explosion of Chi-fi. Sure, there are a LOT of crap Chi-fi IEMs. But there also are a ton of gems coming from anonymous factories in China, including some that build headphones and IEMs for name brands.

The "Chi-fi" effect is just starting to come to quality TWS products, with examples like Lypertek. But once Chi-fi explodes in TWS like it has in IEMs, I think the inevitable Chi-fi "hidden gems" among TWS products will help to close the gap to IEMs even more.


----------



## erockg

miserybeforethemusic said:


> I absolutely will and you make a lot of valid points on the Hifiman. They are consistently good performers from the midrange-up, for what it's worth and I'm not afraid to give credit where credit's due. While those HE-400i are so bass-light out of the box that you need to listen to them in an anechoic chamber to pull out bass detail, they EQ impressively well. Matter of fact, that was the pair that solidified my faith in Roon. Maybe I'll request a price check on the TWS600 with Audio46 to see if they'll go for it. If they go for it, I'll take the hint and order away.
> 
> So far, no perceived issues with battery drain, but I've been using them so frequently, I don't think I'd notice. Haven't had them die on me yet, fwiw.
> 
> ...


I missed the storm.  We're on the westside.  Buddy in BH got hit, but we missed it.  I really wanted more


----------



## tinyman392

miserybeforethemusic said:


> I absolutely will and you make a lot of valid points on the Hifiman. They are consistently good performers from the midrange-up, for what it's worth and I'm not afraid to give credit where credit's due. While those HE-400i are so bass-light out of the box that you need to listen to them in an anechoic chamber to pull out bass detail, they EQ impressively well. Matter of fact, that was the pair that solidified my faith in Roon. Maybe I'll request a price check on the TWS600 with Audio46 to see if they'll go for it. If they go for it, I'll take the hint and order away.


I haven't run into any QC issues with my HiFiMan gear.  My HE-560 were used extensively as were their IEMs RE-600 and RE-1000 also used very extensively without much issue.  The balanced to unbalanced adapter for my RE-600 did give out though (better than the opposite happening though).  Unfortunately I really can't recommend the TWS600 due to it's very hot midrange; I found the TWS800 to be far better.  Its signature is more analytical with a modest bass bump, as such it does end up being very unforgiving in nature.


----------



## LordToneeus

pk4425 said:


> True. I haven't tried the Touch, as I'm waiting for more steady confirmation that firmware updates have fixed the myriad connectivity problems upon release. The Melomania 1's sound terrific for $100, but not as good as the Starfield's at $109.
> 
> Guess I'll just tuck the wire under my shirt, for now. Maybe I'll pick up a Moondrop wireless cable or go for the Melomania 1's or Touch's down the line.
> 
> ...


And I’m with you there. I just returned my MTs, because I’m happier with my KZ Zax + TRN Bt20s combo. Sure they’re a smidge less easy in and out and I’ll miss ambient, but I really wasn‘t blown away by the sound of the MTs, especially not with the random necessary hard reset. As an all around package, I even prefer wearing my Fiil T1X to the MT.


----------



## pk4425

LordToneeus said:


> And I’m with you there. I just returned my MTs, because I’m happier with my KZ Zax + TRN Bt20s combo. Sure they’re a smidge less easy in and out and I’ll miss ambient, but I really wasn‘t blown away by the sound of the MTs, especially not with the random necessary hard reset. As an all around package, I even prefer wearing my Fiil T1X to the MT.



Ah, the FIIL T1X's. I thought they might be the Holy Grail of sub-$50 TWS when I tested them last fall, but the treble was too hot for me. I'm treble-sensitive due to somewhat severe tinnitus.


----------



## SemiAudiophile

Canabuc said:


> Melomania 1+ announced. Will have high end audio and app like the touch bit in the original form factor. And comes with foam tips.
> 
> Hmmmmmm.



Nice, I really liked the design and form factor of the original Melomania 1's. The bass was too boomy and overbearing for my taste though, even with the smallest tips, so I ended up returning them.  I'm really glad they added the companion app for the plus version and extra tips. This is tempting...


----------



## BenKatz (Mar 10, 2021)

Just my 2 cents since I hear people talking about the Technics, since I had them. A few weeks back, after a long run with my Campfire Polaris v2, I decided I'll give the TWS category another try. I did try the Sony XM3s 2 years back when they came out, but I since switched to wired.

I looked around at what's new and sounds good, and ended up ordering the Technics TWS and Sennheiser TWS. After 2 days of A/Bing, I decided on the Technics - they simply sounded better overall for most music genres, and had a cleaner more natural sound with much better subbass.

But then, less then a week ago, I cam across some 2020/21 reviews of the Sony XM3s vs the rest, and many reviewers stated that the XM3s still sound best. I was surprised. So I ended up ordering them since I found them almost 50% off MSRP.

To my surprised, they sounded better than the Technics. By quite a bit. In short: better mid-bass (more slam), clearer vocals and sweeter highs. The only thing the Technics did better was the subbass, which is awesome, but overall it's inferior to the Sonys. I should also mention that since the last time I had the XM3s, they've had a software update to v3.0, and one difference I see is that they now connect via AAC to my phone (Xperia 1 mark 2). I also use the Sonys with DSEE ON and Sound Quality Priority (these 2 options make a big difference in audio quality). Another extra point is that the Sonys sound even louder at max volume vs the Technics.

As far as ANC, the Sony is more or less just as good as the Technics (the technics are rather good at ANC) - and the transparency mode on the Technics is better. HOWEVER, the Technics exhibits a "hiss" with ANC on, while the Sonys doesn't. Another big minus for the Technics is that they have too little mid-bass, but with ANC on, they have quite the bass-boost (turining ANC on affects the sound quite a bit). No such problem on the Sonys.

The biggest surprise came when I compared the Sonys to the wired Campfire Polaris v2. While the Polaris v2 definitely go louder out of my phone, and have a bit more "zing" in the highs, the Sonys sound wider (yes, I know, shocking, but I've tested them extensively, the bluetooth, lossy, wireless Sonys with 1 6mm dynamic driver, sound WIDER and more OPEN than the 500 USD wired Polaris v2 with a bigger dynamic driver and a balanced armature), and have a more neutral and natural tuning. The Polaris v2, as a result, end up sounding too bloated in the lows and "boxed in" vs the Sonys.

So I ended up, to my surprise, using the TWS Sony XM3, that cost 230 USD MSRP undiscounted, vs the wired Polaris v2 (500 USD), because they simply sound better overall (though I wish they had more power).

Can't wait to see what sony is gonna do with the (leaked?) XM4s.


----------



## SemiAudiophile (Mar 10, 2021)

pk4425 said:


> Once I tried Moondrop Starfield, I decided to ditch TWS altogether. The Starfields are better than any TWS earphone I've heard, including the very enjoyable and well-reviewed Cambridge Audio Melomania 1 and Lypertek Tevi.
> 
> I've decided that I'll use some $50 and under TWS Chi-fi buds for podcasts and calls while doing chores. But if I'm listening to music, which I usually do while relaxing and not working, then sound quality is paramount. And the Starfield proved to me again that wired IEMs still sound better than TWS earphones at the same price point and often above.



I've been tapping into the IEM market lately just to see what its about. I never had a use case for them before since I would never take them outside with a DAP or portable dac/amp with all the wires hanging out. But with the revelation of all the universal Chi-Fi brands making them a lot more affordable and discovering new tech like the UTWS3 lately I've been tempted to dig in.

Just got my first pair of IEM's KZ ZAX yesterday and so far I already like them more than the Tevi and N6p Pro. Out of the Hip Dac, they already do everything those can do but better.  I will most likely use them at home only until I can get ahold of the UTWS3. Looks like they're sold out everywhere until April?

I still enjoy my TWS buds though, depending on the use case. Nice to be able to change up the sound with different dac/amps and cables and be portable when need to. It's a great time to be an audiophile! 

Moondrop Blessing 2: Dusk OTW...can't wait!


----------



## erockg

SemiAudiophile said:


> Nice, I really liked the design and form factor of the original Melomania 1's. The bass was too boomy and overbearing for my taste though, even with the smallest tips, so I ended up returning them.  I'm really glad they added the companion app for the plus version and extra tips. This is tempting...


I think you can now EQ them in the app.  Not 100% sure.  I'll have mine on Friday.


----------



## cresny

erockg said:


> Also, can't stop emailing Devialet every other day about the date for the Gemini re-release.  I miss them every day they're gone.


Any news?


----------



## chinmie

pk4425 said:


> Once I tried Moondrop Starfield, I decided to ditch TWS altogether. The Starfields are better than any TWS earphone I've heard, including the very enjoyable and well-reviewed Cambridge Audio Melomania 1 and Lypertek Tevi.
> 
> I've decided that I'll use some $50 and under TWS Chi-fi buds for podcasts and calls while doing chores. But if I'm listening to music, which I usually do while relaxing and not working, then sound quality is paramount. And the Starfield proved to me again that wired IEMs still sound better than TWS earphones at the same price point and often above.



you can also try to use TWS BT dongles like TRN BT20S Pro or the Fiio UTWS1 with your Starfield. That is the system i use at home when i want mobility with my favorite IEMs


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

erockg said:


> I missed the storm.  We're on the westside.  Buddy in BH got hit, but we missed it.  I really wanted more


Almost smack-dab in the middle of the valley, which is why I was caught off guard. We never get weather here.


tinyman392 said:


> I haven't run into any QC issues with my HiFiMan gear.  My HE-560 were used extensively as were their IEMs RE-600 and RE-1000 also used very extensively without much issue.  The balanced to unbalanced adapter for my RE-600 did give out though (better than the opposite happening though).  Unfortunately I really can't recommend the TWS600 due to it's very hot midrange; I found the TWS800 to be far better.  Its signature is more analytical with a modest bass bump, as such it does end up being very unforgiving in nature.


I'll keep both in mind. Been herding cats here, so haven't had time to ask for a price match.


----------



## erockg

cresny said:


> Any news?


Early Spring they suggested but weren’t completely sure


----------



## erockg

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Almost smack-dab in the middle of the valley, which is why I was caught off guard. We never get weather here.
> 
> I'll keep both in mind. Been herding cats here, so haven't had time to ask for a price match.


But you sure do you get over 100° weather  

By the way, what did you pay for the Technics? Amazon just dropped the price to $150.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic (Mar 10, 2021)

erockg said:


> But you sure do you get over 100° weather
> 
> By the way, what did you pay for the Technics? Amazon just dropped the price to $150.


About $50 more than Amazon just price-dropped to. Time to find out if WWS takes rain checks on pricing (edit: website says they do for up to 30 days after purchase...sweet).

At $150, I fully expect more people to jump on the Technics train like you did the MTs...


----------



## bladefd (Mar 10, 2021)

erockg said:


> But you sure do you get over 100° weather
> 
> By the way, what did you pay for the Technics? Amazon just dropped the price to $150.


I got them at $165 in last week of November with 10% cashback on top of that if using Amazon prime card, which I did. I ended up returning them couple weeks later. But that was before people knew about them so they were trying to get people to buy to get more reviews up. Two weeks after that, they pumped the price up to $200.

Honestly, if they were more comfortable & secure, I probably would have kept them. I really liked their build quality even though I preferred the sound of Sennheiser/Sony. Sennheiser cx400 were another pair I found very uncomfortable. I have hard time finding many of the stock eartips comfortable. I really need to find a pair of eartips made just for TWS that I can use universally. That's my primary issue I kept coming across in my 2 month search - lack of comfort.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

bladefd said:


> I really need to find a pair of eartips made just for TWS that I can use universally. That's my primary issue I kept coming across in my 2 month search - lack of comfort.


Have you considered:
Silicone - SpinFit CP360
Foam - Dekoni Bullets (they have a TWS variant)
There's the offbeat bud, like the Jabras that are oval, but I find the Spinfits are pretty compatible with all of the remaining sets I have here. Worth looking into.


----------



## samandhi

tinyman392 said:


> I haven't run into any QC issues with my HiFiMan gear.  My HE-560 were used extensively as were their IEMs RE-600 and RE-1000 also used very extensively without much issue.  The balanced to unbalanced adapter for my RE-600 did give out though (better than the opposite happening though).  Unfortunately I really can't recommend the TWS600 due to it's very hot midrange; I found the TWS800 to be far better.  Its signature is more analytical with a modest bass bump, as such it does end up being very unforgiving in nature.


And here I JUST recommended the TWS600 earlier today. I did describe (in a lot more words) the same thing you did, but with Auto-EQ and some extra EQing, I have found them to be amazing.  I think the tuning is just out of whack, but think the drivers have some really good technicalities (for a TWS) if re-tuned if you will. 

Please share a bit more about the TWS800 if you would?! I am interested in them, but I don't want to spend that kind of money if I don't think I will like them, and I kinda' know your sound sig preferece from reading posts from other threads (all the way back to when the HE400S was released). I simply love the Hifiman "House" sound. I realize these are dynamic drivers, but I generally like the way they tune their drivers. 


SemiAudiophile said:


> I've been tapping into the IEM market lately just to see what its about. I never had a use case for them before since I would never take them outside with a DAP or portable dac/amp with all the wires hanging out. But with the revelation of all the universal Chi-Fi brands making them a lot more affordable and discovering new tech like the UTWS3 lately I've been tempted to dig in.
> 
> Just got my first pair of IEM's KZ ZAX yesterday and so far I already like them more than the Tevi and N6p Pro. Out of the Hip Dac, they already do everything those can do but better.  I will most likely use them at home only until I can get ahold of the UTWS3. Looks like they're sold out everywhere until April?
> 
> ...


It is indeed a great time. Do let us know if you decide to "dig in" and your thoughts about them?!

 Oh WOW! I was getting ready to ask you for impressions when you got the Moondrops, but I saw the extra word "Dusk" there, and went What? I am looking at possibly getting a new set of IEM and the Blessing 2 and LZ A7 were the two contenders (I actually just posted somewhere on Head-Fi that the ones I own are end-game for me, but I just can't seem to help myself hehe). I WOULD still like to hear your impressions of them, but am not too sure they would be for me, as they are advertised not to be analytical, but fun. I DO like fun sounding headphones, but most of the times something is boosted too much. I generally like to get them neutral, and then tune them to fun if I want to, that way I have both analytical AND fun in one IEM. I did look at the FR graph for these, and I'll be damned if I can see the "fun" sound in it though. They look better than a LOT of so called "Audiophile" tuned IEMs (neutral-wise).


----------



## bladefd (Mar 10, 2021)

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Have you considered:
> Silicone - SpinFit CP360
> Foam - Dekoni Bullets (they have a TWS variant)
> There's the offbeat bud, like the Jabras that are oval, but I find the Spinfits are pretty compatible with all of the remaining sets I have here. Worth looking into.


At that time, I didn't know if other eartips would fit cases and didn't know there were special TWS-version of eartips. I didn't want to buy several different tips only to realize they didn't fit, especially because you can't return used eartips. I still did order the Symbio F, which didn't fit in the cases. I ended up wasting $15 for tips I'll probably never use =[

I still look forward to see what you think of the Final type e for tws when you get them.


----------



## clerkpalmer

erockg said:


> I keep waiting for those NPF's to come back in stock.


If you check the classifieds you might just find a set for way less than MSRP!


----------



## Caipirina

Despite (or because of) just getting the Bose QC Earbuds, now I also want the sporty ones  that blue is kinda pretty.  Oh, woe is me!
Anyone done some running with them?


----------



## erockg

clerkpalmer said:


> If you check the classifieds you might just find a set for way less than MSRP!


$50? 😂.  No way.  They need to fix the firmware first.


----------



## samandhi (Mar 10, 2021)

Caipirina said:


> Despite (or because of) just getting the Bose QC Earbuds, now I also want the sporty ones  that blue is kinda pretty.  Oh, woe is me!
> Anyone done some running with them?


Reel em' in, another one hooked! 

I haven't with the new ones, but if they still use the style of wings they used on the Soundsport Free then you are good. Those hold SO well, and they don't even go inside your ears at all.

Edit: NM, I just looked and they do not have the "Stay Here" wings like the Soundsport free. They actually look alot like the MT wings, which aren't bad, but aren't the greatest in the world.


----------



## Canabuc

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Did you try inserting the JBLs similar to IEMs (aka pulling back on your ear to straighten the canal on insertion)? The JBLs have had the most IEM-like fit of all the TWS I own; everything else seems to favor a shallower insertion and once the JBLs are in, they're locked for me. Worth looking into.



Based on most other tws I need a 12 or larger mm diameter tip I left ear and 13 to 14 on right.
The large tip on JBL I measure to less than 13.
If I don't move my head they are secure. But if I lean forward or do some head shaking they fall out.

Spinfits coming (cp1025) tomorrow. The 360 are secure on the JBL but they stick out too far. The 1025 while designed for airpods pro have normal opening. There is an adapter to make them fit the APP. They are shallower than 360 by. 1.7 mm. Heard they might be a good choice for the JBL. Maybe even the MT.

And like the bud HO I am the Liberty air 2 pro had a coupon code on Amazon dropping them to 139$ cdn or about 108$. Worth a try as most reviews seems very positive for sound quality ANC and transparency.

Other sound quality option is the mwo7+ which is on sale for about 205$ at Costco.


----------



## SemiAudiophile

samandhi said:


> And here I JUST recommended the TWS600 earlier today. I did describe (in a lot more words) the same thing you did, but with Auto-EQ and some extra EQing, I have found them to be amazing.  I think the tuning is just out of whack, but think the drivers have some really good technicalities (for a TWS) if re-tuned if you will.
> 
> Please share a bit more about the TWS800 if you would?! I am interested in them, but I don't want to spend that kind of money if I don't think I will like them, and I kinda' know your sound sig preferece from reading posts from other threads (all the way back to when the HE400S was released). I simply love the Hifiman "House" sound. I realize these are dynamic drivers, but I generally like the way they tune their drivers.
> 
> ...


Yup, I would probably be happy with the original blessing 2's as I tend to like the sound towards neutral as well. But seeing these as fan inspired and collectors edition, I couldn't help myself. 😄 I'm also little sensitive to "shouty" mids and seeing these tuned down a little in that region seemed appealing to me. I don't mind a "darker" sound. Should arrive in a couple days. 👍


----------



## Canabuc

erockg said:


> The ANC on those Sonys IS great.  I just could never for my life get a good fit/seal with them.  Really hope gen 2 fixes that.


I couldn't my first go around with them but re ordered when they went in sale and using tips from my Liberty 2 pro I have a very comfortable secure fit. More so than most other buds right now.

The soundcore tips can go wider as they have a huge variety of sizes and they are not too deep.


----------



## Canabuc

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Figured out the AutoEQ presets with Neutron. For anybody else interested, looks like someone put together a nice, graphical tutorial on the process. I manually entered everything the first time for the Technics; turns out I didn't even need to do that (hint: look for "Frequency Response Correction"). Looks like now, as long as your TWS/IEM/whatever are loaded into jaakkopasanen's Github, they'll be available to you within Neutron:
> 
> https://neutroncode.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=6134&sid=741112d452f86455a3143e214d3b051e
> 
> ...



How is neutron different from wavelet?


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

Canabuc said:


> How is neutron different from wavelet?


Haven't used Wavelet, so not sure. I'm guessing you could use Wavelet for PEQ as well, but you'll probably have to enter your EQ manually.


----------



## Canabuc

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Haven't used Wavelet, so not sure. I'm guessing you could use Wavelet for PEQ as well, but you'll probably have to enter your EQ manually.


Wavelet is on Android it also does auto EQ using profiles from different earbuds.
Plus it has separate EQ if you want to use say for your buds that have no stock built in EQ.
.it is free with some add-ons that are pay. Bit the auto EQ feature is free.


----------



## samandhi

Canabuc said:


> How is neutron different from wavelet?


Neutron is a standalone app/player that has its own drivers and bypasses the android drivers, thereby giving more control of the EQ and DSP controls. it also has SOOOO many features (besides the auto-eq feature) packed in.  Plus it is bit-perfect. 

Wavelet is not a player, but is a system wide EQ app. IMO the EQ part is pretty weak (like all system wide android eq that are not root), but the main part that makes it ultra useful is the auto-eq feature. It has the same database of heaphones/IEMs (over 2500 atm) to auto correct tuning in headphones/IEMs. It DOES have a few "paid" features (Bass-boost, virtualization, reverberation, bass tuner) but I didn't find them too useful, and the bass boost as not as good as you might think (doesn't go to a low enough frequency for the boost).


----------



## Linus Jian

C_Lindbergh said:


> Congrats? That's the whole thing about TWS, you sacrifice a bit of SQ for convinence and portability.
> 
> However there are a few TWS that punches way above it's price tag, like the Melomania Touch





pholcus1975 said:


> Frankly, it's a sort of personal taste, but I don't find Moondrop better than Melomania Touch. They sound different but Touch (and M1 also) sound exceptionally good, even compared to some wired (hifiman re600, that went for 400 $ when launched, and Soundmagic e80). M1 almost made me want to sell my Plenue M1, so good as they are. I didn't sell it, because for some critical listening I just got Final Audio A4000.
> But surely I will never bring it with me on the go or on vacation. M1 and MT are so good it's my portable setup now. Plus, there's the convenience of having all my collection always with me (uapp+ vpn+nas)


Good for you that you are not an audiophile. The resolution/clarity of MT is really awful...


----------



## Linus Jian

BenKatz said:


> Just my 2 cents since I hear people talking about the Technics, since I had them. A few weeks back, after a long run with my Campfire Polaris v2, I decided I'll give the TWS category another try. I did try the Sony XM3s 2 years back when they came out, but I since switched to wired.
> 
> I looked around at what's new and sounds good, and ended up ordering the Technics TWS and Sennheiser TWS. After 2 days of A/Bing, I decided on the Technics - they simply sounded better overall for most music genres, and had a cleaner more natural sound with much better subbass.
> 
> ...


Either you are not very sensitive to resolution/clarity or the music files you listened to are low quality, maybe both actually, I listened to both extensively and while the resolution of Polaris is not outstanding comparing to its iem competitors, the resolution/clarity of the sonys is trash.


----------



## FYLegend

pk4425 said:


> I think you're on to something with the IEM and TWS landscape. One of the reasons IEMs have progressed and, frankly, are such an exciting market segment right now is the explosion of Chi-fi. Sure, there are a LOT of crap Chi-fi IEMs. But there also are a ton of gems coming from anonymous factories in China, including some that build headphones and IEMs for name brands.
> 
> The "Chi-fi" effect is just starting to come to quality TWS products, with examples like Lypertek. But once Chi-fi explodes in TWS like it has in IEMs, I think the inevitable Chi-fi "hidden gems" among TWS products will help to close the gap to IEMs even more.


Not sure I'd really call Lypertek Chi-Fi, they're based in Hong Kong but did most of their early marketing in Korea. In 2019 there was the Anbes 359/SSK BT03 hype on this thread. Unfortunately by the time I tried looking for it sellers were throwing out rebrands/knockoffs. On YouTube the hype was more on Sabbat E12 but here that product had a more mixed/negative response. TaoTronics, MPOW and Anker are more-or-less Chi-Fi in my book.  I do get the feeling what is reasonably good today is only equivalent to the bang for buck IEMs of yesterday. Aside from something like Samsung and Lypertek (which I haven't heard personally), much of the market is geared towards a consumer-friendly sound with punchy bass and V-shaped tuning. Reminds me of the days of Philips SHE3580, JVC FX40, Xiaomi Pistons and SoundMagic E10 before KZ and BLON became a thing (I've stopped following IEMs so I'm likely not giving a concise list). My issue is getting bad-lucked with receiving duds, which even happens from large companies like 1More and Samsung. Smaller brands might try bribing you into 5-star reviews in exchange for reviews, which is a shady practice, but at least they _act _like they really care about your feedback. Larger companies tend to play coy with issues with reps/fanboys rushing in to say "DID YOU FACTORY RESET?"


----------



## samandhi




----------



## Bhelpoori

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Technics' ANC is pretty stellar as well. I've been thoroughly impressed at how many household sounds it eliminates...not masks...eliminates. Pretty fun to be standing right next to a running dryer and watch it go from full whirr to nothing at the touch of a button. At least then you might be able to get it shipped from Japan vice the USA...could be cheaper in the end.
> 
> I know it doesn't have the dual-connection piece of the 85t, but I've found that to be more of a hindrance than a help. Even after adding the Link 380, when multiple things start trying to play on top of each other (i.e. getting a phone call while in the middle of a conference call). Instead, the Technics can just disconnect/reconnect directly from the new host device and it's almost just as fast. Granted, you've already picked up the 85t, but others might appreciate the info as well.
> 
> Can't speak on the Sony. I could never push myself to get them, even after prices started dropping. Maybe once the BX does another price drop and it truly goes <$200.


Thanks, great information.

I too found it a pain when on a Zoom when the other connection interrupts the Zoom. The Bose and Sony AFAIK don’t deal with this well too and so I did like you, disconnect the other device.

On Jabra I was doing that too until I found a setting in “Call Experience” that is only revealed by scrolling: “Prioritise Bluetooth Device with call” which does this automatically: when on a call it disconnects from the 2nd device, when the call ends the 2nd device is reconnected…Quite neat and very useful for us Zoom/Teams junkies IMHO.


----------



## samandhi (Mar 11, 2021)

FYLegend said:


> Not sure I'd really call Lypertek Chi-Fi, they're based in Hong Kong but did most of their early marketing in Korea. In 2019 there was the Anbes 359/SSK BT03 hype on this thread. Unfortunately by the time I tried looking for it sellers were throwing out rebrands/knockoffs. On YouTube the hype was more on Sabbat E12 but here that product had a more mixed/negative response. TaoTronics, MPOW and Anker are more-or-less Chi-Fi in my book.  I do get the feeling what is reasonably good today is only equivalent to the bang for buck IEMs of yesterday. Aside from something like Samsung and Lypertek (which I haven't heard personally), much of the market is geared towards a consumer-friendly sound with punchy bass and V-shaped tuning. Reminds me of the days of Philips SHE3580, JVC FX40, Xiaomi Pistons and SoundMagic E10 before KZ and BLON became a thing (I've stopped following IEMs so I'm likely not giving a concise list). My issue is getting bad-lucked with receiving duds, which even happens from large companies like 1More and Samsung. Smaller brands might try bribing you into 5-star reviews in exchange for reviews, which is a shady practice, but at least they _act _like they really care about your feedback. Larger companies tend to play coy with issues with reps/fanboys rushing in to say "DID YOU FACTORY RESET?"


OMG, I STILL have the Piston 2's, and while I don't really listen to them anymore, I DID like them back then (though they were overcooked in the bass department for sure). I have the white ones, and the brown (chocolate ones). BTW. They do still smell like chocolate if you put your nose right up to them.. hehe 

They sounded amazing for $12 though. Funny thing is $12 was the regular price and they were still cloned like crazy....


----------



## bladefd

samandhi said:


> Neutron is a standalone app/player that has its own drivers and bypasses the android drivers, thereby giving more control of the EQ and DSP controls. it also has SOOOO many features (besides the auto-eq feature) packed in.  Plus it is bit-perfect.
> 
> Wavelet is not a player, but is a system wide EQ app. IMO the EQ part is pretty weak (like all system wide android eq that are not root), but the main part that makes it ultra useful is the auto-eq feature. It has the same database of heaphones/IEMs (over 2500 atm) to auto correct tuning in headphones/IEMs. It DOES have a few "paid" features (Bass-boost, virtualization, reverberation, bass tuner) but I didn't find them too useful, and the bass boost as not as good as you might think (doesn't go to a low enough frequency for the boost).


What does auto eq do? I used to regularly use wavelet until I got the MT, which eq's on actual hardware/bud level. I just remember auto-eq used to sound great, but I don't know what settings it automatically tries to eq to.


----------



## C_Lindbergh

Linus Jian said:


> Good for you that you are not an audiophile. The resolution/clarity of MT is really awful...


Wow someone on Head.fi telling me I'm not an audiophile! How will I ever recover 😩


----------



## Womaz

https://www.headfonia.com/earsonics...KzT2f_BNfptuwyr1nF6nYLJskFJVLxNKR1jzqufKZqSNo
Interesting review


----------



## tiagopinto

bubsdaddy said:


> Can you easily return them? I am a Bose house sound fan also with the SS wireless and SSF in my running rotation. I bought the QC earbuds on day one as I have a local Bose store nearby. As everyone has mostly pointed out, they aren't great for running but you didn't intend using them for that purpose anyway. The sound is very good for a TWS. In the end, I travel so little now due to a job and location change 4 years ago and a global pandemic that I didn't see enough value in keeping another set roughly of $300 after tax Bose NC's as I already own the 35s and the QC20s. I know that doesn't help your intended use all that much but take from my opinion what you can.
> 
> On a different note, I am just loving the Soundpeats Truefree2 for running. I use the largest tips and they don't sit very deep in my ear canal so the "runner's thump" is minimal and even more so after the sweat loosens them even further. The wing fins keep them in place and I never need to fiddle with them. I get no wind sound (which annoys me even more than the thump) and the I think the sound is very reminiscent of the Bose house sound. I have purchased several sets for friends who are just getting started running. Such a bargain at around $24.



I know that at 25€ I can’t ask for much, but how’s the sound on the Soundpeats TF2? When you say “no wind noise” do they have an ambient mode or is this from passive isolation? Thanks.


----------



## BenKatz

Linus Jian said:


> Either you are not very sensitive to resolution/clarity or the music files you listened to are low quality, maybe both actually, I listened to both extensively and while the resolution of Polaris is not outstanding comparing to its iem competitors, the resolution/clarity of the sonys is trash.



In that case there was something very wrong with the Sonys that you had. In fact i'm fairly certain of it, since I tested them extensively. And relax, don't need to worry about my "sensitivity" for clarity. I'm quite sensitive. I've played around with enough headphone, dacs and especially home stereos (my home stereo has had some massive modifications in the last year on both electronics and speaker ends until I got the desired SQ in the last year) to tell. I still have them both right now and the only "clarity" that is apparent with the Polaris v2 is that they can go (in this particular case, mobile use with my Xperia 1 mk 2, that has a 3.5mm jack) louder, which can give a slight impression of clarity on account of pure db increase. But the Sonys are excellently tuned and have very good clarity and soundstage, especially for a TWS. 

Saying that Sonys have "trash" clarity not only makes you a small minority vs the vast majority of online reviews and mine (even chuckolatte on yt has a review on them and is surprised, and the guy mostly reviews high end in-ear/over ear headphones), but also makes me either question your sensitivity to clarity and resolution, or might mean that the Sonys you tested were definitely defective.


----------



## Thesonofkrypton

Linus Jian said:


> Either you are not very sensitive to resolution/clarity or the music files you listened to are low quality, maybe both actually, I listened to both extensively and while the resolution of Polaris is not outstanding comparing to its iem competitors, the resolution/clarity of the sonys is trash.


It'a all relative to be honest.  You might think Sony XM3 are trash but what are you basing it on - comparisons to wired iems? Of course, no competition.  Compared to other wireless earphones, I stand by my opinion that they're the best out there.  It's a compromise with truly wireless earphones and one shouldn't expect a wired earphone experience - not now anyway, maybe one day.


----------



## clerkpalmer

Womaz said:


> https://www.headfonia.com/earsonics...KzT2f_BNfptuwyr1nF6nYLJskFJVLxNKR1jzqufKZqSNo
> Interesting review


Look amazing. Too bad no AAC on board from what I can tell. Looks like a misfire if that’s the case.


----------



## BenKatz

Thesonofkrypton said:


> It'a all relative to be honest.  You might think Sony XM3 are trash but what are you basing it on - comparisons to wired iems? Of course, no competition.  Compared to other wireless earphones, I stand by my opinion that they're the best out there.  It's a compromise with truly wireless earphones and one shouldn't expect a wired earphone experience - not now anyway, maybe one day.



Yeah that comment came out of nowhere, and if you check he's saying about the same thing about the Melomania when replying to someone else, basically trashing their headphone assessing ability. 

There is no doubt wired are still where it's at, even with simple electronic sources (like smartphone).

But at least in my case, vs the Polaris V2 (which i loved since i appreciate bass heavy headphoneS), the XM3s simply surprised me a lot! They actually have areas where they are better. Sure, Polaris have more crystal highs and much more sub-bass, but the bloat in the bass smudges a lot of the mids, whereas this is where the XM3 shines as in many genres, it's clearer across the freq range and sounds more open. 

Btw, I see you have the LEGENDARY Z1R. I never had a chance to listen to them. How do they compare to the XM3s? I'm not asking whether they are better, i've 0 doubt. I'm just wondering in terms of tuning and sound signature. Do they have commonalities?


----------



## samandhi (Mar 11, 2021)

bladefd said:


> What does auto eq do? I used to regularly use wavelet until I got the MT, which eq's on actual hardware/bud level. I just remember auto-eq used to sound great, but I don't know what settings it automatically tries to eq to.


Quote from the project home page:


> AutoEQ is a project for equalizing headphone frequency responses automatically and it achieves this by parsing frequency response measurements and producing equalization settings which correct the headphone to a neutral sound.


Not all headphones I have tried using the settings for sound better, but there are some that are made to sound amazing, or at the least make it possible to get my own EQ settings tuned in a bit better. When I first started using it, like @miserybeforethemusic I added all 10 of the EQ settings provided in a file manually, but then realized that you can just open Wavelet, or Neutron and search the database for your headphones, and have it load those settings for you.


----------



## Thesonofkrypton (Mar 11, 2021)

BenKatz said:


> Yeah that comment came out of nowhere, and if you check he's saying about the same thing about the Melomania when replying to someone else, basically trashing their headphone assessing ability.
> 
> There is no doubt wired are still where it's at, even with simple electronic sources (like smartphone).
> 
> ...



I've always wanted to dip my toe in the Campfire Audio world and have looked on at the Polaris 2 and Atlas with a keen eye! lol But yes, I share your opinions about he XM3, I think if you did a blind test and put them into someone's ears, they'd have a hard time telling it was wireless. 

The Z1R are my favourite purchase in the hobby so far.  I'm a fan of the Sony house sound, so it was a dream to get hold of them, albeit second hand, but very impressed by what they offer.  There's that familiar Sony tuning that they share, warmish slightly v shaped, fun sound, the Z1R is more refined on both ends (and the mids) obviously and has a much wider soundstage but moving from them straight to the XM3, you can tell they're cut from the same cloth.  Quite frankly, I'm excited for the XM4, based off what has been offered in the XM3, a close to wired sound in wireless form is the dream as I don't take the Z1R or any my headphones out of the house so I rely on the TWS to sound decent-ish.


----------



## pk4425

SemiAudiophile said:


> Moondrop Blessing 2: Dusk OTW...can't wait!


I'm lusting for those, too!


----------



## pk4425

bladefd said:


> I got them at $165 in last week of November with 10% cashback on top of that if using Amazon prime card, which I did. I ended up returning them couple weeks later. But that was before people knew about them so they were trying to get people to buy to get more reviews up. Two weeks after that, they pumped the price up to $200.
> 
> Honestly, if they were more comfortable & secure, I probably would have kept them. I really liked their build quality even though I preferred the sound of Sennheiser/Sony. Sennheiser cx400 were another pair I found very uncomfortable. I have hard time finding many of the stock eartips comfortable. I really need to find a pair of eartips made just for TWS that I can use universally. That's my primary issue I kept coming across in my 2 month search - lack of comfort.


The CX400 didn't fit me well, either. The square, boxy form factor put pressure on my ear cartilage.


----------



## Womaz

After some pretty unhelpful communication with Cambridge Audio I am looking for some help from this forum instead.
I have the MT but I need to try some foam tips to see if I can get a better fit. I know they do not recommend foam tips but its worth a try. Would anyone have any idea what size I would need. 
I usually use Comply and they have a lot of different models


----------



## pk4425

Linus Jian said:


> Either you are not very sensitive to resolution/clarity or the music files you listened to are low quality, maybe both actually, I listened to both extensively and while the resolution of Polaris is not outstanding comparing to its iem competitors, the resolution/clarity of the sonys is trash.


I didn't care for the XM3's, either. Veiled and a bit boomy, just like Sony's wireless over-ears. Different strokes for different folks!


----------



## samandhi

Womaz said:


> After some pretty unhelpful communication with Cambridge Audio I am looking for some help from this forum instead.
> I have the MT but I need to try some foam tips to see if I can get a better fit. I know they do not recommend foam tips but its worth a try. Would anyone have any idea what size I would need.
> I usually use Comply and they have a lot of different models


Im pretty sure the bore size is just standard size, but the tip length needs to be under 7.5mm. It could be a bit longer, like 8mm, but I don't think anything over that would work. Someone posted the specs of the stock (custom) tips that CA uses here in this thread. I have read on another forum of some using Comply tips, though they had to trim them down to fit in the case. They didn't mention specs, just that it IS possible to do. 

In looking at the neck on the buds, it looks like they weren't intended to go all the way into your ear (which is a shame really), so fitment has been hit or miss for a lot of people.


----------



## samandhi (Mar 11, 2021)

OK. Found it. Originally posted by @Canabuc. Here is the info you requested... whew!  :


----------



## BenKatz

pk4425 said:


> I didn't care for the XM3's, either. Veiled and a bit boomy, just like Sony's wireless over-ears. Different strokes for different folks!



That really depends what you're looking for and what you are comparing it with. As far as the Polaris V2, they are great especially for sub-bass and bassheads (techno music, etc). But as far as my assessment, I stand by it 100%. I have both XM3 and Polaris V2 on my desk. Have you tried the Polaris V2? It's good but there's a LOT of bass bleed into the mids, and it makes the sound much more veiled, boomy and narrow/boxy vs the XM3. Also, it really depends how you set up the XM3. I found that setting the options to DSEE On and Priority Sound Quality makes a huge difference. Just for the record, DSEE is set to OFF and connection is set to Connection Priority as Default when you set them up. Which i think is a BIG mistake by Sony. They should've let these settings on the best sound quality by default. Many folks didn't care to look up these options in the app (or some didn't even install the app at all) and got a much inferior sound out of the XM3 than what they are truly capable off. I see this in online reviews as well, there are people reviewing them as great and some as flat and veiled. I'm pretty sure it has something to do with the setup and options.


----------



## bubsdaddy

Caipirina said:


> Thanks for your input!
> There is no easy return here, you can't even try them in shop .. as soon as you open the box, they can't sell as new anymore, so nope. Usually the prices here are crazy, like 50-100% on top of regular US price ... but with these, it is 'only' 10% .. and that actually would put them on par with the European 279€ price tag (Of course, now that I check, I see that amazon.de has them for 205€!)
> I don;t really NEED another set, nor do I have any travel coming up ... but I happen to have a bit of money to burn (since there is nothing else to buy  )  and well, those popped up on my radar ...  How would you rate the ANC compared to the QC20?
> 
> I will keep those soundpeats in mind ... right now they want 60$ fedex shipping to my location ...


The ANC of the QC buds and the QC20 are pretty similar. It's tough to do a great comparison without travelling but both will suffice. I am currently enjoying a pair of Jabra 85ts that I picked up refurbished on eBay. They have pretty decent NC but I think the Bose is better. 

Stupid addicting hobby. I don't "need" it but I "need" it.


----------



## BenKatz

Thesonofkrypton said:


> I've always wanted to dip my toe in the Campfire Audio world and have looked on at the Polaris 2 and Atlas with a keen eye! lol But yes, I share your opinions about he XM3, I think if you did a blind test and put them into someone's ears, they'd have a hard time telling it was wireless.
> 
> The Z1R are my favourite purchase in the hobby so far.  I'm a fan of the Sony house sound, so it was a dream to get hold of them, albeit second hand, but very impressed by what they offer.  There's that familiar Sony tuning that they share, warmish slightly v shaped, fun sound, the Z1R is more refined on both ends (and the mids) obviously and has a much wider soundstage but moving from them straight to the XM3, you can tell they're cut from the same cloth.  Quite frankly, I'm excited for the XM4, based off what has been offered in the XM3, a close to wired sound in wireless form is the dream as I don't take the Z1R or any my headphones out of the house so I rely on the TWS to sound decent-ish.



Well the campfires are great, particularly the Polaris V2 - but that's only if you like bass heavy headphones. The issue I have with them only appeared after comparing them with the XM3 - the bass bleeds too much in the mids and as a result makes the sound narrower, boxyer and more bloated than the XM3, as well as veiling some details. If you want something closer to the XM3 in sound tuning, I think you'd have to compare them to something like the Solaris , but that's Z1R price-range. So since you already have the Z1R...you basically don't need anything else 

As far as practicality, yeah, that's a  HUGE advantage. Tried the other day to use the (wired) campfires, no chance. It's just TOO MUCH hassle to use it especially when you use your phone to pay/wear a jacket/wear a mask. TWS is the future, no doubt.

The only notable complaint I have with the XM3 is their somewhat lackluster sub-bass, but I think that's rather a limitation of the 6mm (small) dynamic driver than the bt connection/electronics. Here's hoping the XM4 come with something more substantial, maybe a 10mm-ish one, that would definitely solve the sub-bass issue. Who knows, maybe they go dynamic-driver + balanced armature, like the XBA series? I also have the XBA-N1 (wired) and love the sound, maybe more than the much more expensive Polaris v2. I always wondered why no one thought about making a multi-driver TWS. Maybe sony will be the first one. Maybe not, but it will have a killer single dynamic driver.

In any case, if the leaks are to be trusted, the box says high-res wireless. This can only mean one thing - they finally figured out how to make LDAC work on TWS earphones


----------



## pk4425

C_Lindbergh said:


> Wow someone on Head.fi telling me I'm not an audiophile! How will I ever recover 😩


Yeah, that was a bit strong. Hope my agreement with his premise about the XM3's wasn't seen as dickish, either. The sound of the XM3's didn't suit _me; _I'm glad it suits you!


----------



## bubsdaddy

tiagopinto said:


> I know that at 25€ I can’t ask for much, but how’s the sound on the Soundpeats TF2? When you say “no wind noise” do they have an ambient mode or is this from passive isolation? Thanks.


The sound is a bit warm and bassy which I really enjoy while running. The isolation is enough to prevent wind noise. I tried my Jabra 85ts a few days ago and quickly switched back to the Soundpeats due to the wind noise. the Jabras don't really seal much. Scarbir has some good info on these:

Best Sports TWS under $50

Soundpeats Truefree 2 review


----------



## cr3ativ3

Technics EAH-AZ70W someone heard them?


----------



## Canabuc

samandhi said:


> Im pretty sure the bore size is just standard size, but the tip length needs to be under 7.5mm. It could be a bit longer, like 8mm, but I don't think anything over that would work. Someone posted the specs of the stock (custom) tips that CA uses here in this thread. I have read on another forum of some using Comply tips, though they had to trim them down to fit in the case. They didn't mention specs, just that it IS possible to do.
> 
> In looking at the neck on the buds, it looks like they weren't intended to go all the way into your ear (which is a shame really), so fitment has been hit or miss for a lot of people.


I posted the specs of the Cambridge audio page.
From my experiencing, the cp360 spinfits are a good choice. Not foam but worth a try. 
Dekoni makes a true wireless foam model that might be a good fit as well.
Also if you have any Sennheiser or soundcore true wireless earbuds they also seem to have the right shallow fit to try.


----------



## Caipirina (Mar 11, 2021)

samandhi said:


> Reel em' in, another one hooked!
> 
> I haven't with the new ones, but if they still use the style of wings they used on the Soundsport Free then you are good. Those hold SO well, and they don't even go inside your ears at all.
> 
> Edit: NM, I just looked and they do not have the "Stay Here" wings like the Soundsport free. They actually look alot like the MT wings, which aren't bad, but aren't the greatest in the world.


The Bose SSF were actually my second set of (brandname) TWS and even after they had a battery fail and I could not invoke warranty, I ended up buying a new pair! I like 'em that much.
That;s what got me interested in Bose's new offerings .. I love love love the StayHear tips .. and maybe they don't call them that anymore (or StayHear 2, oh, StayHear MAX!), I find them to be super similar. It is just the side that attaches to the bud that has changed. I have not been able to find replacememts yet (on aliexpress) but that will come eventually 

What are the "MT wings" ?

BTW, found one YT video where a guy compares the QC buds with the new sportbuds and he says even the sound quality of the sportbuds is meh .. so, no real incentive to get them .. same IPX4 rating ...
On the other hand, I see that shiny blue color on German amazon for 130€ ... let;'s see where that price is in summer 

Edit: do NOT check AliExpress for ‘stayhear max’


----------



## tinyman392

samandhi said:


> And here I JUST recommended the TWS600 earlier today. I did describe (in a lot more words) the same thing you did, but with Auto-EQ and some extra EQing, I have found them to be amazing.  I think the tuning is just out of whack, but think the drivers have some really good technicalities (for a TWS) if re-tuned if you will.
> 
> Please share a bit more about the TWS800 if you would?! I am interested in them, but I don't want to spend that kind of money if I don't think I will like them, and I kinda' know your sound sig preferece from reading posts from other threads (all the way back to when the HE400S was released). I simply love the Hifiman "House" sound. I realize these are dynamic drivers, but I generally like the way they tune their drivers.


If you can EQ out the midrange spike, yeah the TWS600 will sound very good IMO.  iOS doesn't give me such luxuries though unfortunately  The 800 is a very analytical signature with very little (if any) warmth to them from the midrange on up.  It's quite bright in both midrange and treble; the midrange focuses on the upper midrange creating lots of energy and clarity while the treble is elevated giving lots of energy and detailing; it can all be a bit much though.  There is a very solid bass-line to them that is elevated and overall pretty linear which gives it good texturing and impact with good presence.  It isn't a bass-head IEM nor Harman IMO; those have been very popular in this thread though.  

From memory, they remind me of what an RE-0 would sound like, but with an added bass bump.  

Those 400S days were a _long_ time ago


----------



## Canabuc (Mar 11, 2021)

All this XM3 talk made me pull them out and listen again as I have been mostly using the JBL and MT last few days.

They are still among best sounding tws  buds to date.

The sub bass doesn't get as dei as others but the mids bass is very good. The table smoking the best and there is a nice surrounded and separation to them.



This artist has some nice instrumentals and with these buds you feel like you are floating in the music


----------



## pk4425

Canabuc said:


> All this XM3 talk made me pull them out and listen again as I have been mostly using the JBL and MT last few days.
> 
> They are still among best sounding tws  buds to date.
> 
> ...



That's pretty music. I'll find more by this cat. Thanks for the tip.


----------



## Linus Jian

BenKatz said:


> That really depends what you're looking for and what you are comparing it with. As far as the Polaris V2, they are great especially for sub-bass and bassheads (techno music, etc). But as far as my assessment, I stand by it 100%. I have both XM3 and Polaris V2 on my desk. Have you tried the Polaris V2? It's good but there's a LOT of bass bleed into the mids, and it makes the sound much more veiled, boomy and narrow/boxy vs the XM3. Also, it really depends how you set up the XM3. I found that setting the options to DSEE On and Priority Sound Quality makes a huge difference. Just for the record, DSEE is set to OFF and connection is set to Connection Priority as Default when you set them up. Which i think is a BIG mistake by Sony. They should've let these settings on the best sound quality by default. Many folks didn't care to look up these options in the app (or some didn't even install the app at all) and got a much inferior sound out of the XM3 than what they are truly capable off. I see this in online reviews as well, there are people reviewing them as great and some as flat and veiled. I'm pretty sure it has something to do with the setup and options.


First thing I did when I received the xm3 is to change the settings... Been using a lot of sony bluetooth speakers / headphones, dsee is not a secret to me. And I didn't say the resolution of the xm3 is the worst in the realm of tws. But it's average or below even in the tws world, and for people like me that favor resolution/listen to complex music, it's unbearable. 

To give you an example, nural n6pro which is also a pair of tws, has much better resolution than the xm3.

And also like I said, music files make ton of difference, if most of the time you are listening to pop songs thru spotify I can see why it's hard for you to tell the difference.


----------



## Canabuc

Linus Jian said:


> First thing I did when I received the xm3 is to change the settings... Been using a lot of sony bluetooth speakers / headphones, dsee is not a secret to me. And I didn't say the resolution of the xm3 is the worst in the realm of tws. But it's average or below even in the tws world, and for people like me that favor resolution/listen to complex music, it's unbearable.
> 
> To give you an example, nural n6pro which is also a pair of tws, has much better resolution than the xm3.
> 
> And also like I said, music files make ton of difference, if most of the time you are listening to pop songs thru spotify I can see why it's hard for you to tell the difference.



So what you would rank ahead?


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

pk4425 said:


> Yeah, that was a bit strong. Hope my agreement with his premise about the XM3's wasn't seen as dickish, either. The sound of the XM3's didn't suit _me; _I'm glad it suits you!


I'm in a similar camp; I've tried many pairs of Sony buds/cans and speakers in the past and the best equipment I think they've ever put out were the ES series dual monoblock car amplifiers (pre-Xplod era).


cr3ativ3 said:


> Technics EAH-AZ70W someone heard them?


Have 'em. Love 'em. I seem to be in small company, though.


Linus Jian said:


> First thing I did when I received the xm3 is to change the settings... Been using a lot of sony bluetooth speakers / headphones, dsee is not a secret to me. And I didn't say the resolution of the xm3 is the worst in the realm of tws. But it's average or below even in the tws world, and for people like me that favor resolution/listen to complex music, it's unbearable.
> 
> To give you an example, nural n6pro which is also a pair of tws, has much better resolution than the xm3.
> 
> And also like I said, music files make ton of difference, if most of the time you are listening to pop songs thru spotify I can see why it's hard for you to tell the difference.


Think it's worth being a little fair to how certain people embrace certain terms in the community. It's virtually impossible convincing the average listener about what resolution is, let alone its value in a set of TWS/IEMs/cans/speakers. It's really difficult to get novices to point them out, even on extremely revealing headphones. So I've been careful to not knock people for thinking Sony's house sound values resolution. That's never been the case, in my experience; definitely more about making an emotional connection to the music. Not a bad thing, just how it is.


----------



## pk4425

I had no idea about the Technics IEMs until this thread. Now they're on my radar since you cats are recommending them for sound quality and the price is down to $150 at Amazon.

Thought I was done with TWS for a while. Now maybe not.

Damn you bastards!


----------



## cr3ativ3

miserybeforethemusic said:


> I'm in a similar camp; I've tried many pairs of Sony buds/cans and speakers in the past and the best equipment I think they've ever put out were the ES series dual monoblock car amplifiers (pre-Xplod era).
> 
> Have 'em. Love 'em. I seem to be in small company, though.
> 
> Think it's worth being a little fair to how certain people embrace certain terms in the community. It's virtually impossible convincing the average listener about what resolution is, let alone its value in a set of TWS/IEMs/cans/speakers. It's really difficult to get novices to point them out, even on extremely revealing headphones. So I've been careful to not knock people for thinking Sony's house sound values resolution. That's never been the case, in my experience; definitely more about making an emotional connection to the music. Not a bad thing, just how it is.


it belongs to Panasonic


----------



## cr3ativ3

pk4425 said:


> I had no idea about the Technics IEMs until this thread. Now they're on my radar since you cats are recommending them for sound quality and the price is down to $150 at Amazon.
> 
> Thought I was done with TWS for a while. Now maybe not.
> 
> Damn you bastards!


i just received my unit , and its the first tws iem which sounds better than sennheiser mtw2 to me . really decent sound


----------



## miserybeforethemusic (Mar 11, 2021)

cr3ativ3 said:


> it belongs to Panasonic


Yep. I've seen several people suggest it's a dressed-up version of the Panasonic RZ-S500W with a slightly different tuning and some extra features. All changes I think help the AZ70W for the better, but I almost _hated _it out of the box. Compared to just about every other TWS in my arsenal right now, these have no shame when it comes to everything from the upper-midrange on up. The same veil that keeps a lot of the other pairs from being fatiguing is gone, meaning you're now free to have your ears wrecked by subpar recordings...in the beginning.

But after about a day of running a Harman-ish EQ on them, just casually listening to music at moderate volumes, I think the DD Panasonic chose to put in both units loosens up just enough to smooth over some of that top-end bite. I'm guessing it has to do with loosening up the coated PEEK diaphragm, but it could also just be my ears getting used to things. They're still not as detailed as the UEs up top and, allegedly, the N6Pro. Might have to investigate that one a little more closely, though I need another set of TWS like I need another hole in my head or animal in the house.

Long story short, they can now run on stock EQ without being overly fatiguing and without losing the low-end weight that really makes these things stand out on drum tracks. Just wish they had aptX.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

pk4425 said:


> I had no idea about the Technics IEMs until this thread. Now they're on my radar since you cats are recommending them for sound quality and the price is down to $150 at Amazon.
> 
> Thought I was done with TWS for a while. Now maybe not.
> 
> Damn you bastards!


At $150, I can't tell you to _not_ buy it. Waiting for this conference call I'm on to end so I can get a price adjustment on the set I bought for $200.

I think you'd have a much harder time trying to justify the AZ70W relative to other pairs at its original $250 retail, but with that $100 price drop, well, it's kinda like Hifiman selling the TWS600 for $50...starts to approach impulse buy territory.

Just think of it this way: what other $150 TWS right now have a similar feature set of the Technics? They just became a really enticing option.

Also, still no sign of that dreaded battery drain. Matter of fact, left the buds sitting out of the case on the nightstand all night, ANC on, and still woke up to about 40% full buds and a case that was fully charged, but not plugged in. Either I got lucky or Panasonic took care of things after the initial run.


----------



## Canabuc

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Yep. I've seen several people suggest it's a dressed-up version of the Panasonic RZ-S500W with a slightly different tuning and some extra features. All changes I think help the AZ70W for the better, but I almost _hated _it out of the box. Compared to just about every other TWS in my arsenal right now, these have no shame when it comes to everything from the upper-midrange on up. The same veil that keeps a lot of the other pairs from being fatiguing is gone, meaning you're now free to have your ears wrecked by subpar recordings...in the beginning.
> 
> But after about a day of running a Harman-ish EQ on them, just casually listening to music at moderate volumes, I think the DD Panasonic chose to put in both units loosens up just enough to smooth over some of that top-end bite. I'm guessing it has to do with loosening up the coated PEEK diaphragm, but it could also just be my ears getting used to things. They're still not as detailed as the UEs up top and, allegedly, the N6Pro. Might have to investigate that one a little more closely, though I need another set of TWS like I need another hole in my head or animal in the house.
> 
> Long story short, they can now run on stock EQ without being overly fatiguing and without losing the low-end weight that really makes these things stand out on drum tracks. Just wish they had aptX.



I wanted to like the Technics. Couldn't get along with it far out of my ears they stuck out. And they just had no lie end energy for me. 
I really like their midrange and lower Treble. They really had nice clarity and female vocals sound great. 
They also suffered from lack of volume like the Sennheisers.

I guess with EQ customizing they have the hardware to perform better than their stock tuning and eq settings but that is not a game I like to play.

I love to EQ buds but using the companies app which sets the equalization on the buds and carries over to any device. I use my buds on my iPad,PC and Android phone. 
Maybe the AAC on the Android phone just didn't do them justice.

For me I much prefer the sound of the MT, and prefer the Sony and sennheisers as well. Even the Fiil T1PRO have that same Treble and mids like the Panasonic's oops I mean Technics. But with better low end.

Right now using disk EQ in their respective apps my favorite sound of current generation buds:

1. MT
2. JBL
3. Sennheisers
4. Sony/fast buds pro
5. Fiil
6. Technics
7. Jabra 85t

Now this is across all genres.
The MT once tuned make Jazz, blue rock everything just sound energetic yet with good detail and resolution and space.

JBL is very close with MT and honestly has a slightly more resolving bass. Really should be a 1A and 1B. JBL equalizer is so comprehensive that it can really be tweaked too anyone preferred sound. 

Sennheiser are the champs for overall soundstage, treble detail, and sound best for acoustics, Jazz, but can be a bit veiled in lower mids for Rock and rap.

Sony also sound good across genre but miss a bit of that low end of the MT, and sizzle a bit more in the highs.


----------



## Canabuc

miserybeforethemusic said:


> At $150, I can't tell you to _not_ buy it. Waiting for this conference call I'm on to end so I can get a price adjustment on the set I bought for $200.
> 
> I think you'd have a much harder time trying to justify the AZ70W relative to other pairs at its original $250 retail, but with that $100 price drop, well, it's kinda like Hifiman selling the TWS600 for $50...starts to approach impulse buy territory.
> 
> ...


The Sony to be are actually cheaper now and a better overall earbud for me.


----------



## cr3ativ3

Canabuc said:


> I wanted to like the Technics. Couldn't get along with it far out of my ears they stuck out. And they just had no lie end energy for me.
> I really like their midrange and lower Treble. They really had nice clarity and female vocals sound great.
> They also suffered from lack of volume like the Sennheisers.
> 
> ...


did you tried the bass enhancer in the app? (technics)


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

Canabuc said:


> The Sony to be are actually cheaper now and a better overall earbud for me.


I can't get past the bud and case sizes. I'm sure they sound fantastic; I was even happy with the NW-A45 I had right up until my son sent it through the washer. I think I just have my mind made up on waiting for the new ones to come out, so hopefully they slash the price down even further. At $100 NIB, I'd probably snatch them up without thinking about it, but I'm not going to take chances on an eBay clone.

Agreed with you on the JBL's technical abilities. I think they just designed a really good driver/enclosure and left the tuning up to you, which is smart. Hopefully they can improve the issues people have been having with low volume while ANC is on with a firmware update. Think it's only happened a couple times to me, early on, and before I wiped my phone. Since then, hasn't been a problem for me.


----------



## Canabuc

cr3ativ3 said:


> did you tried the bass enhancer in the app? (technics)


I found it did little. ANC on helped boost the bass but then the soundstage and the parts of the sound I did like were negatively affected.


----------



## samandhi

Caipirina said:


> The Bose SSF were actually my second set of (brandname) TWS and even after they had a battery fail and I could not invoke warranty, I ended up buying a new pair! I like 'em that much.
> That;s what got me interested in Bose's new offerings .. I love love love the StayHear tips .. and maybe they don't call them that anymore (or StayHear 2, oh, StayHear MAX!), I find them to be super similar. It is just the side that attaches to the bud that has changed. I have not been able to find replacememts yet (on aliexpress) but that will come eventually
> 
> What are the "MT wings" ?
> ...


Yeah, I have always loved the StayHear wings, they have just the right amount of rigidity to keep them in place, but never get "Hot" in the ear.

MT wings = Melomania Touch wings = not near as comfortable even when they fit correctly.

I have found most Bose phones to have meh sound (to be honest), but most times they can be EQ'ed pretty well. I just have a hard time spending the kinda' money they ask for meh headphones. It reminds me of the Beats fad....


tinyman392 said:


> If you can EQ out the midrange spike, yeah the TWS600 will sound very good IMO.  iOS doesn't give me such luxuries though unfortunately  The 800 is a very analytical signature with very little (if any) warmth to them from the midrange on up.  It's quite bright in both midrange and treble; the midrange focuses on the upper midrange creating lots of energy and clarity while the treble is elevated giving lots of energy and detailing; it can all be a bit much though.  There is a very solid bass-line to them that is elevated and overall pretty linear which gives it good texturing and impact with good presence.  It isn't a bass-head IEM nor Harman IMO; those have been very popular in this thread though.
> 
> From memory, they remind me of what an RE-0 would sound like, but with an added bass bump.
> 
> Those 400S days were a _long_ time ago


Ah you have IOS... I'm terribly sorry for you... heh J/K OIC, well then I may need to pass on the TWS800, because I am pretty sensitive to a 3k bump (which is a typical tuning trick used in Chinese phones). I don't mind mid and upper treble boosts though. Hell, I still own (and listen to) the Sennheiser HD700. Remember the huge 7k spike to give the illusion of airiness? Those don't bother my ears much at all (though I DO have most of the errors corrected with DSP).

Yeah, most of the TWS out there are closely tuned to the Harman curve (or at least are inspired by). I don't hate it, but I prefer more neutral for most times, then I can adjust DSP when the mood arises. I just wish they would finally get over this tech hurdle and get me some good planar TWS already.. 

Yes, they were, and I still use them as a measuring stick for a lot of phones... 


miserybeforethemusic said:


> At $150, I can't tell you to _not_ buy it. Waiting for this conference call I'm on to end so I can get a price adjustment on the set I bought for $200.
> 
> I think you'd have a much harder time trying to justify the AZ70W relative to other pairs at its original $250 retail, but with that $100 price drop, well, it's kinda like Hifiman selling the TWS600 for $50...starts to approach impulse buy territory.
> 
> ...


I am curious about battery drain insomuch as when they are in the case. Like my Soundsport Free (for instance). When in the case if you leave them untouched, the buds will try to keep charged therefore suck the battery from the case. In about a week they are completely dead. The buds simply don't power down (although they do disconnect when inserted into the case). I was worried that this might be the case with the AZ, and it is a dealbreaker for me. I don't listen to TWS as much as would be needed to keep them charged, but I need them to be charged when I need them (for work or something like that).


----------



## Canabuc

miserybeforethemusic said:


> I can't get past the bud and case sizes. I'm sure they sound fantastic; I was even happy with the NW-A45 I had right up until my son sent it through the washer. I think I just have my mind made up on waiting for the new ones to come out, so hopefully they slash the price down even further. At $100 NIB, I'd probably snatch them up without thinking about it, but I'm not going to take chances on an eBay clone.
> 
> Agreed with you on the JBL's technical abilities. I think they just designed a really good driver/enclosure and left the tuning up to you, which is smart. Hopefully they can improve the issues people have been having with low volume while ANC is on with a firmware update. Think it's only happened a couple times to me, early on, and before I wiped my phone. Since then, hasn't been a problem for me.


Sony's might be shaped differently but don't feel bulkier. Even the case is flatter then the Technics so while overall bigger is more pocketable.

Never once extruded lower volume with JBL when turning on ANC. Then again the ANC seems to only cut it a small amount of extra sound...


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

Canabuc said:


> I found it did little. ANC on helped boost the bass but then the soundstage and the parts of the sound I did like were negatively affected.


Their bass boost operates on a really narrow band and won't be perceived very well on most of the stuff you've shared with us. Definitely helps emphasize kicks on modern recordings, though it does so at the expense of staging.



samandhi said:


> I am curious about battery drain insomuch as when they are in the case. Like my Soundsport Free (for instance). When in the case if you leave them untouched, the buds will try to keep charged therefore suck the battery from the case. In about a week they are completely dead. The buds simply don't power down (although they do disconnect when inserted into the case). I was worried that this might be the case with the AZ, and it is a dealbreaker for me. I don't listen to TWS as much as would be needed to keep them charged, but I need them to be charged when I need them (for work or something like that).


I figured we were talking about a parasitic drain issue. Have no issue continuing to monitor for any signs of it, but so far so good. Honestly, I think the already-low battery capacity of the case means I'm charging these things about daily based on how much I use them. Once they start falling to the back of the rotation, I should be able to have a better idea of whether there is parasitic drain. Hopefully this is also something that could be fixed via a firmware update; sounds like a simple battery-reporting issue.

And WorldWideStereo has matched pricing on the AZ70Ws for me; I'm not used to getting a price match after the fact, but that just made me really happy. Absolutely no issue getting it to happen, no questions asked. Guess I found a new Etailer to keep in the "heavy rotation" pile.


----------



## pk4425

miserybeforethemusic said:


> At $150, I can't tell you to _not_ buy it. Waiting for this conference call I'm on to end so I can get a price adjustment on the set I bought for $200.
> 
> I think you'd have a much harder time trying to justify the AZ70W relative to other pairs at its original $250 retail, but with that $100 price drop, well, it's kinda like Hifiman selling the TWS600 for $50...starts to approach impulse buy territory.
> 
> ...


Yep. And your previous post about the treble grain/shrillness wearing off after burn-in tempts me even more. I'm quite treble-sensitive due to tinnitus.


----------



## cr3ativ3

Canabuc said:


> I found it did little. ANC on helped boost the bass but then the soundstage and the parts of the sound I did like were negatively affected.


with it on , and symbio w tips , the bass is pretty good so far


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

pk4425 said:


> Yep. And your previous post about the treble grain/shrillness wearing off after burn-in tempts me even more. I'm quite treble-sensitive due to tinnitus.


Yeah, I'm treble-sensitive as well. Really tried to tough it out with a set of Beyer 1990s for months because I thought I could train myself into enjoying the extra detail, but never made it. My initial impressions of the Technics were somewhat similar to those Beyers in terms of frequency emphasis (or lack thereof). No idea if the new owner feels the same, but part of me thinks that every time I see a set of 1990 up on r/AVExchange, it's that very set. Probably not, though.

Good news is there were ways I could curb that sharpness during whatever "break-in" period was taking place; running Neutron was one way; using Neutralizer might have been another, but Crinacle's settings from the AutoEQ repository helped in both cases, at least for the first couple days. I never just set them on the table to let them play, though that probably would have been a good idea. Matter of fact, I may pull out the 3a for that purpose...


----------



## PixelSquish

I did like the Technics sound overall, I didn't feel they were lacking bass, I could tell they were more on the neutral side but still engaging - although they clearly had less bass than the MTW2 and JBL Club Pro plus and MT's, but if you like to listen to your music at 85% or higher on TW's buds, these will just be lacking. They just don't bring the loudness, and thus had no real punch to me when I wanted them to. If you don't want your music loud, I think the Technics are an amazing deal at 150 - their build quality, ANC and Ambient mode are the best I've tried (between MTW2, MT, JBL CPPlus). They are bulbous, but they fit in my ear fine as well. Didn't keep them long enough to check on battery drain though.


----------



## Thesonofkrypton

same boat as you with the 1990s.  Such a shame, they were beautifully crafted, really wanted to love them but didn't regret moving them on.


----------



## PixelSquish

Random question for all TW's users. I have had this issue now with all the TW buds I've tried, so I know it's not an issue by brand. I'm trying to figure out if it's a Tidal issue or Android issue. Basically I'm listening to a playlist on Tidal. I can pause or switch to transparent mode say, then unpause and it continues where it lefts off. But sometimes when I try to restart the music from a pause, the playlist starts with some random track and I lose my place in the playlist. Does this happen to anyone else? And with what OS and with what music playing app?


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

PixelSquish said:


> Random question for all TW's users. I have had this issue now with all the TW buds I've tried, so I know it's not an issue by brand. I'm trying to figure out if it's a Tidal issue or Android issue. Basically I'm listening to a playlist on Tidal. I can pause or switch to transparent mode say, then unpause and it continues where it lefts off. But sometimes when I try to restart the music from a pause, the playlist starts with some random track and I lose my place in the playlist. Does this happen to anyone else? And with what OS and with what music playing app?


It's happened to me on Android before and I'm thinking it's a coding issue on the OS end. While it's a major benefit having the ability to use whatever media app you want, I think it throws the OS for a loop when you do what it considers to be random pauses/restarts. I've had Neutron start playing when I was listening to Qobuz or UAPP fires up when I insert a bud and I was watching a video on YouTube. Don't think it's caused by the TWs themselves, though.

Google's got some kinks to iron out.


----------



## erockg

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Their bass boost operates on a really narrow band and won't be perceived very well on most of the stuff you've shared with us. Definitely helps emphasize kicks on modern recordings, though it does so at the expense of staging.
> 
> 
> I figured we were talking about a parasitic drain issue. Have no issue continuing to monitor for any signs of it, but so far so good. Honestly, I think the already-low battery capacity of the case means I'm charging these things about daily based on how much I use them. Once they start falling to the back of the rotation, I should be able to have a better idea of whether there is parasitic drain. Hopefully this is also something that could be fixed via a firmware update; sounds like a simple battery-reporting issue.
> ...


Do I get %10 here?    Kidding.  Glad you got your cash!  I always get my stuff price matched.  No skin off their back, it's a manufacturer incentive.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic (Mar 11, 2021)

erockg said:


> Do I get %10 here?    Kidding.  Glad you got your cash!  I always get my stuff price matched.  No skin off their back, it's a manufacturer incentive.


The really nice part is I started in chat, but the guy my CS representative needed to talk to was in a meeting. They let me know there would be a delay in getting me an answer and they'd call me as soon as that meeting let out. Sure enough, I got a call within the 20 minutes following letting me know it was all good to go.

Fry's (rest in peace) was good about that for a while, but insider buzz is that they were starting to train their staff to flat-out ignore you when you came in looking for a price match. Lot of weird things surrounding people who've come and gone from that company over the years. At least I go to take my kids through the Woodland Hills and Burbank locations before they shuttered for good.

Thanks again for pointing out the discount. Wish I could have taken that $50 and put them towards the TWS600.


----------



## TK33

miserybeforethemusic said:


> The really nice part is I started in chat, but the guy my CS representative needed to talk to was in a meeting. They let me know there would be a delay in getting me an answer and they'd call me as soon as that meeting let out. Sure enough, I got a call within the 20 minutes following letting me know it was all good to go.
> 
> Fry's (rest in peace) was good about that for a while, but insider buzz is that they were starting to train their staff to flat-out ignore you when you came in looking for a price match. Lot of weird things surrounding people who've come and gone from that company over the years. At least I go to take my kids through the Woodland Hills and Burbank locations before they shuttered for good.
> 
> Thanks again for pointing out the discount. Wish I could have taken that $50 and put them towards the TWS600.


Best Buy is great for price matching as well.  Probably have done that 4 or 5 times already this year (one after the fact price match last night). I have been buying what I can from them because of it (and easy returns).  No shame here asking for a match.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic (Mar 11, 2021)

85t foamies just showed up. Wasn't expecting so much extra hardware, but I guess it's a multi-step process.


Spoiler: Big Picture










Good news is they sent me a message with the following video for installing all of this stuff:


Edit: and they're really, _really_ comfortable. Fragile to install as I accidentally ripped open one of the Size Large tips (and partially ripped a Small). The protrusion with Size M is a little silly, so I moved down to the Small and am much happier. Granted, the extra width from the foam means you perceive more pressure in your ear over the stock gel tips, but they're much more secure.


----------



## tinyman392

samandhi said:


> Ah you have IOS... I'm terribly sorry for you... heh J/K OIC, well then I may need to pass on the TWS800, because I am pretty sensitive to a 3k bump (which is a typical tuning trick used in Chinese phones). I don't mind mid and upper treble boosts though. Hell, I still own (and listen to) the Sennheiser HD700. Remember the huge 7k spike to give the illusion of airiness? Those don't bother my ears much at all (though I DO have most of the errors corrected with DSP).
> 
> Yeah, most of the TWS out there are closely tuned to the Harman curve (or at least are inspired by). I don't hate it, but I prefer more neutral for most times, then I can adjust DSP when the mood arises. I just wish they would finally get over this tech hurdle and get me some good planar TWS already..
> Yes, they were, and I still use them as a measuring stick for a lot of phones...


iOS can be somewhat limited, mainly with EQ and AAC requirements.  Though the AAC codec is great on iOS so no issues there.  The 2-3k bump (raw, uncompensated) is actually placed there to mimic the natural resonance in your ear canal all the way back from the Etymotic days (Elk Grove, IL, USA); most IEMs tend to have some spike here to deal with that.  8 and 10k spikes are very common to create splash and airiness, I tend to not have much issue with them except that it can cause the treble detailing to smear over each other at times.  

I really feel like a 10 dB bump in the bass is a bit much for IEMs, my preference is probably closer to a 5-ish dB bump over a 10 dB, but I'd rather a neutral over 10 dB any day, but that's more a preference thing.  

The RE-0 are a great headphone, I wish I remembered where I left mine


----------



## CocaCola15

Cambridge Audio Melomania 1+ just arrived. As it happened, I was listening to a bit of jazz on the M1s. They are fantastic and with no EQ. Some don't like the design (bolt-like), no ANC, etc. But for pure sound quality, they are a fantastic deal. I happen to like the form/fit factor, especially with foam tips.

So need to charge them up, connect to them to my iPhone 8+ and LG V20 and listen. If they improve on the M1s, I will be sold. Probably sell off the Jabra 75t Actives I bought OB. Can't get a great fit with them for some reason, and tried other tips. Just not a match with my right ear. Spend too much time adjusting the fit.


----------



## bladefd

Womaz said:


> After some pretty unhelpful communication with Cambridge Audio I am looking for some help from this forum instead.
> I have the MT but I need to try some foam tips to see if I can get a better fit. I know they do not recommend foam tips but its worth a try. Would anyone have any idea what size I would need.
> I usually use Comply and they have a lot of different models


If you find some tips that you like and fit the MT case, let us know!


----------



## bladefd

Canabuc said:


> Sony's might be shaped differently but don't feel bulkier. Even the case is flatter then the Technics so while overall bigger is more pocketable.
> 
> Never once extruded lower volume with JBL when turning on ANC. Then again the ANC seems to only cut it a small amount of extra sound...


Sonys are tough to wear in bed. I also have a side-sleeper pillow (small space for the ear) and sony were impossible to wear while lying on my side at night. MT don't jut out at all so I can wear them even while sleeping on my side. I could not wear Sony, az70, or even cx400bt while sleeping on the side (cx400bt I could but they kept getting pushed a bit). Only the MT I have no issues sleeping with.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

bladefd said:


> Sonys are tough to wear in bed. I also have a side-sleeper pillow (small space for the ear) and sony were impossible to wear while lying on my side at night. MT don't jut out at all so I can wear them even while sleeping on my side. I could not wear Sony, az70, or even cx400bt while sleeping on the side (cx400bt I could but they kept getting pushed a bit). Only the MT I have no issues sleeping with.


I can echo these sentiments. At this point, I'd only attempt sleep with the Earfun Free Pro or MT; everything else protrudes too much, wiggles loose easily, or is otherwise a royal pain for side sleepers.

Regardless, I'm a glutton for punishment and slept with the AZ70Ws in last night. Thanks to some partying that was happening next door, ANC was definitely warranted and it paid off in dividends. The EFPs with music on would probably have worked just as well, though.

Just sent a RMA request to Cambridge. Hoping to get a pair that doesn't have the volume control issues I was facing and I love that pair too much to just return outright. Maybe second time will be a charm.


----------



## erockg

miserybeforethemusic said:


> The really nice part is I started in chat, but the guy my CS representative needed to talk to was in a meeting. They let me know there would be a delay in getting me an answer and they'd call me as soon as that meeting let out. Sure enough, I got a call within the 20 minutes following letting me know it was all good to go.
> 
> Fry's (rest in peace) was good about that for a while, but insider buzz is that they were starting to train their staff to flat-out ignore you when you came in looking for a price match. Lot of weird things surrounding people who've come and gone from that company over the years. At least I go to take my kids through the Woodland Hills and Burbank locations before they shuttered for good.
> 
> Thanks again for pointing out the discount. Wish I could have taken that $50 and put them towards the TWS600.


Good old Frys.  We had one here by us in Manhattan Beach.  Awful customer service though.  They truly went downhill fast.  I'm always price matching if I can.  Amazon is the only place that won't do it.  They always suggest returning the item and repurchasing it.  Odd, but okay.  Glad you got your money back for more toy purchases.


----------



## erockg

tinyman392 said:


> iOS can be somewhat limited, mainly with EQ and AAC requirements.  Though the AAC codec is great on iOS so no issues there.  The 2-3k bump (raw, uncompensated) is actually placed there to mimic the natural resonance in your ear canal all the way back from the Etymotic days (Elk Grove, IL, USA); most IEMs tend to have some spike here to deal with that.  8 and 10k spikes are very common to create splash and airiness, I tend to not have much issue with them except that it can cause the treble detailing to smear over each other at times.
> 
> I really feel like a 10 dB bump in the bass is a bit much for IEMs, my preference is probably closer to a 5-ish dB bump over a 10 dB, but I'd rather a neutral over 10 dB any day, but that's more a preference thing.
> 
> The RE-0 are a great headphone, I wish I remembered where I left mine


I absolutely LOVED my Etymotic headphones back in the day.  I read they're coming out with a new style.  Would be cool to use the Fiio TWS adapters with them if possible.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

erockg said:


> Good old Frys.  We had one here by us in Manhattan Beach.  Awful customer service though.  They truly went downhill fast.  I'm always price matching if I can.  Amazon is the only place that won't do it.  They always suggest returning the item and repurchasing it.  Odd, but okay.  Glad you got your money back for more toy purchases.


Going down the "just how bad were they" rabbit-hole is pretty interesting when it comes to Fry's. For example, did you know that most of the items in their ads were made up? Product never existed. Whole point was to bait and switch customers. Or there's another fun one about how an exec up in the PNW embezzled tens of millions from the company. They started off so well, but completely fell apart in their later years. Ignoring invoicing was the final nail in their coffin, I guess.

And, yes, more toy purchases...maybe I'll wait until PayPal finishes my claim on the CX400BT before I order anything else. Frustratingly, they keep pushing back the ETA by a week, then a day, then another day. Great way to let me know they haven't looked at what's essentially an open-and-shut case in literal weeks.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

erockg said:


> I absolutely LOVED my Etymotic headphones back in the day.  I read they're coming out with a new style.  Would be cool to use the Fiio TWS adapters with them if possible.


Ety goes DD? This seems very confusing.


----------



## jant71

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Ety goes DD? This seems very confusing.



Triple armature and @erockg  no FiiO adapters since they won't be MMCX. Though not sure why Fiio doesn't tap the market and release versions with other connectors.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic (Mar 11, 2021)

jant71 said:


> Triple armature


Sold. I absolutely love Ety's diffuse field tuning on the right material.

Those ER-4Ps were always resilient buggers, too. Survived two underway deployments and a whole lotta field days.


----------



## erockg

jant71 said:


> Triple armature and @erockg  no FiiO adapters since they won't be MMCX. Though not sure why Fiio doesn't tap the market and release versions with other connectors.


Agreed.  They should.  Here's more info from the email I got:


*Stainless Steel*
Departing from our acclaimed precision machined, anodized and laser-etched aluminum bodies, our new metal injection molding allowed us to take a different direction. Crafting geometrically complex curves with heat and high pressure, we created elaborate angles out of stainless steel.  


T2 Connecter System
Get fully immersed into the music with the minimalistic and aesthetic design that the T2 Linum BaX T2 cable system provides. Improving both reliability and performance was at the forefront of what we wanted to accomplish. To do this, we designed the EVO with ultralight cabling from Estron.  


Concha Locked Fit
 Etymotic engineers studied the shape of ear and looked for the most comfortable fit for the majority of people. We landed on a design that cradled the earphone within the ear's concha. Additionally, the nozzle has been shortened for a wider set of ears.


----------



## erockg

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Sold. I absolutely love Ety's diffuse field tuning on the right material.
> 
> Those ER-4Ps were always resilient buggers, too. Survived two underway deployments and a whole lotta field days.


I spent many years on a train from LBC to Century City using mine.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic (Mar 11, 2021)

erockg said:


> *Concha Locked Fit*
> Etymotic engineers studied the shape of ear and looked for the most comfortable fit for the majority of people. We landed on a design that cradled the earphone within the ear's concha. Additionally, the nozzle has been shortened for a wider set of ears.


That's the part that's going to be hit-or-miss with these. I've had a few pairs of IEMs that locked into your concha; with most of them, you can feel rub the concha after about 30-45 minutes. Hopefully they do a good job beveling those edges. Willing to give it a shot to see how they tune a 3-BA setup, though. Don't think they'll meet a lot of people's bass needs, though.

Found some more glamour shots of the Etymotic EVO (as it's named) on Ety's Instagram from January. Gives you a better idea of size and scale. That nozzle is...well, it's a nozzle.


Spoiler: Mystery Etymotic Multi-BA IEM


















And here's your landing page:
https://www.etymotic.com/evo-multi-driver-earphone.html

And the Head-Fi product thread. Think my work for the day is done:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/etymotic-research-evo-impressions-and-discussion-thread.954294/


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

Have we discussed this one yet? Because this one's way more compelling to me, provided Ety figured out there's a TWS use case for this as well.






https://www.etymotic.com/etymotic-m...-earplugs-with-active-hearing-protection.html


----------



## jant71 (Mar 11, 2021)

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Have we discussed this one yet? Because this one's way more compelling to me, provided Ety figured out there's a TWS use case for this as well.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


We have not because they are not a TWS  They are hearing protection. They have ambient but you have to play the music with your band cause they don't play music. No calls either so they don't really meet the criteria.

I see the 1more are on Ali. They claim a wind noise mode...
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/100...earchweb0_0,searchweb201602_,searchweb201603_


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

jant71 said:


> We have not because they are not a TWS  They are hearing protection. They have ambient but you have to play the music with your band cause they don't play music. No calls either so they don't really meet the criteria.
> 
> I see the 1more are on Ali. They claim a wind noise mode...
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/100...earchweb0_0,searchweb201602_,searchweb201603_


That's the joke. I'm fully aware these are basically really expensive DSP-enhanced earplugs. Means they're already about 2/3 of the way to a TWS, though, even if it's something like the ER2XR in TWS form. Might be wishful thinking, but I think it's a perfect way for Etymotic to break in. Their fan base will take care of the rest.


----------



## tinyman392

erockg said:


> I absolutely LOVED my Etymotic headphones back in the day.  I read they're coming out with a new style.  Would be cool to use the Fiio TWS adapters with them if possible.



Those are MMCX jacks unfortunately   They're T2/IPX jacks, same that UE uses on their customs if I'm not mistaken, so if you wanted to use a TWS adapter, you'd definitely need to get an adapter for the TWS adapter  They do look very interesting and I'll likely drop on a pair if it's not super expensive.  It's supposed to be tuned more towards their "extended range" line that boosts bass; the Etymotic rep on the forums said the bass shelf began around 100 Hz.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

tinyman392 said:


> Those are MMCX jacks unfortunately   They're T2/IPX jacks, same that UE uses on their customs if I'm not mistaken, so if you wanted to use a TWS adapter, you'd definitely need to get an adapter for the TWS adapter


Yep. The HF thread I linked a few posts up goes into all the nitty gritty. Dave from Etymotic makes a guest appearance as well. While an IPX connection isn't proprietary, it's pretty uncommon. Expect about $100 right now per replacement, though Ety embracing the standard may encourage third party cable manufacturers to stock the connectors moving forward. Ety's Bluetooth adapters are already pretty impressive; I can't imagine it would be too tough to release an IPX variant of that.


----------



## erockg

tinyman392 said:


> Those are MMCX jacks unfortunately   They're T2/IPX jacks, same that UE uses on their customs if I'm not mistaken, so if you wanted to use a TWS adapter, you'd definitely need to get an adapter for the TWS adapter  They do look very interesting and I'll likely drop on a pair if it's not super expensive.  It's supposed to be tuned more towards their "extended range" line that boosts bass; the Etymotic rep on the forums said the bass shelf began around 100 Hz.


Correct.  Confirmed above somewhere.  Bummer, but maybe someone will make a TWS solution.


----------



## pk4425

miserybeforethemusic said:


> I can echo these sentiments. At this point, I'd only attempt sleep with the Earfun Free Pro or MT; everything else protrudes too much, wiggles loose easily, or is otherwise a royal pain for side sleepers.
> 
> Regardless, I'm a glutton for punishment and slept with the AZ70Ws in last night. Thanks to some partying that was happening next door, ANC was definitely warranted and it paid off in dividends. The EFPs with music on would probably have worked just as well, though.
> 
> Just sent a RMA request to Cambridge. Hoping to get a pair that doesn't have the volume control issues I was facing and I love that pair too much to just return outright. Maybe second time will be a charm.


I say this in good humor and with a smile on my face: How the hell can you cats go to sleep with earbuds and music playing? When I place my head on the pillow, I want silence so I can turn off my brain and go to sleep. 

I'm very fortunate in that I've hardly ever had trouble sleeping. I insist one of the reasons is that I only do two things in bed -- sleeping and well, ahem, you know. I don't read in bed. I've never had a TV in my bedroom in my 55 years on this planet. I don't listen to music in bed. I don't browse my phone or laptop in bed. Ever. Never. Nada.

I think that has trained my brain to be wired into thinking, "Head hits pillow; shut off and go to sleep." At least it works for me!


----------



## pk4425 (Mar 11, 2021)

erockg said:


> Good old Frys.  We had one here by us in Manhattan Beach.  Awful customer service though.  They truly went downhill fast.  I'm always price matching if I can.  Amazon is the only place that won't do it.  They always suggest returning the item and repurchasing it.  Odd, but okay.  Glad you got your money back for more toy purchases.


I strongly suggest the Honey browser extension for Chrome if you shop often at Amazon. It shows you the price history of the item over the last month or two, and you would be shocked how much the price of items fluctuates at Amazon, even outside of traditional sale periods. It's almost like gas prices.

Honey also alerts you when an item you've short-listed with them drops in price. It's a really cool, free service.

Another recommended Chrome browser extension for Amazon is ReviewMeta. It somehow sorts the fake reviews from Amazon listings and gives you a far more accurate depiction of the true user rating of items sold at Amazon.

Find both in the Chrome extensions store. Both are free.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

pk4425 said:


> I say this in good humor and with a smile on my face: How the hell can you cats go to sleep with earbuds and music playing? When I place my head on the pillow, I want silence so I can turn off my brain and go to sleep.
> 
> I'm very fortunate in that I've hardly ever had trouble sleeping. I insist one of the reasons is that I only do two things in bed -- sleeping and well, ahem, you know. I don't read in bed. I've never had a TV in my bedroom in my 55 years on this planet. I don't listen to music in bed. I don't browse my phone or laptop in bed. Ever. Never. Nada.
> 
> I think that has trained my brain to be wired into thinking, "Head hits pillow; shut off and go to sleep." At least it works for me!


Comes from 12 years of "head hits pillow; the shift that just relieved you is going to run drills in 30 minutes." Spending so long on constant alert has turned me into a very light sleeper.

Sometimes it's music, but mostly it's playing Pzizz, which is specifically meant to help promote good sleep.


pk4425 said:


> I strongly suggest the Honey browser extension for Chrome if you shop often at Amazon. It shows you the price history of the item over the last month or two, and you would be shocked how much the price of items fluctuates, even outside of traditional sale periods. It's almost like gas prices.
> 
> Honey also alerts you when an item you've short-listed with them drops in price. It's a really cool, free service.
> 
> ...


I'm weird about services like that because the waters get really murky on how they make their money (which, realistically, is by selling off your browsing and purchase history to advertisers). Getting on-the-fly discounts is great, but the Big Brother aspect of it is a major turnoff for me. Thank you for the recommendation, though; I imagine it'll really help some people here.


----------



## jant71

miserybeforethemusic said:


> That's the joke. I'm fully aware these are basically really expensive DSP-enhanced earplugs. Means they're already about 2/3 of the way to a TWS, though, even if it's something like the ER2XR in TWS form. Might be wishful thinking, but I think it's a perfect way for Etymotic to break in. Their fan base will take care of the rest.


Doubt they would but now since Ety are a Lucid company I'm pretty sure we will see TWS and most likely it would be the ER2 drivers in it. But it better have ambient if they are gonna have the deep fit with higher iso.


----------



## Canabuc

bladefd said:


> Sonys are tough to wear in bed. I also have a side-sleeper pillow (small space for the ear) and sony were impossible to wear while lying on my side at night. MT don't jut out at all so I can wear them even while sleeping on my side. I could not wear Sony, az70, or even cx400bt while sleeping on the side (cx400bt I could but they kept getting pushed a bit). Only the MT I have no issues sleeping with.



Cp1025 spinfits came in and make a nice shallow seal and fit with the MT. Comfortable and nice sound. Plus profile sits more flush with ear.

On another not the soundcore Liberty air 2 pro came in and are going back after.30 minutes

Terrible design. The send hit your face and fit way too shallow. No volume either though the actualsound was good.

Only positive was nice case and ANC seemed.to work very well.


----------



## Canabuc

miserybeforethemusic said:


> I can echo these sentiments. At this point, I'd only attempt sleep with the Earfun Free Pro or MT; everything else protrudes too much, wiggles loose easily, or is otherwise a royal pain for side sleepers.
> 
> Regardless, I'm a glutton for punishment and slept with the AZ70Ws in last night. Thanks to some partying that was happening next door, ANC was definitely warranted and it paid off in dividends. The EFPs with music on would probably have worked just as well, though.
> 
> Just sent a RMA request to Cambridge. Hoping to get a pair that doesn't have the volume control issues I was facing and I love that pair too much to just return outright. Maybe second time will be a charm.


What issues?


----------



## pk4425

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Comes from 12 years of "head hits pillow; the shift that just relieved you is going to run drills in 30 minutes." Spending so long on constant alert has turned me into a very light sleeper.
> 
> Sometimes it's music, but mostly it's playing Pzizz, which is specifically meant to help promote good sleep.
> 
> I'm weird about services like that because the waters get really murky on how they make their money (which, realistically, is by selling off your browsing and purchase history to advertisers). Getting on-the-fly discounts is great, but the Big Brother aspect of it is a major turnoff for me. Thank you for the recommendation, though; I imagine it'll really help some people here.


I'm tighter than two coats of paint. So, if an extension saves me money, no f*cks given about taking my information. Big Brother can watch me all he wants if he saves me bucks. I have nothing to hide. Well, not much ...


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

Canabuc said:


> What issues?


Volume would act erratically if you tried to adjust it by the phone and one or both ears would randomly drop connection perodically.

Since I'm still within a window, I don't mind doing the exchange process with Cambridge directly. This also gives me an idea for how they handle small issues since, based on what I've tried so far, I could see myself saving up for an Edge NQ/W combo down the road. Easier to take a $150 bath over a $10k one.

Glad the SpinFit APP tips are working out for you.


----------



## tinyman392

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Yep. The HF thread I linked a few posts up goes into all the nitty gritty. Dave from Etymotic makes a guest appearance as well. While an IPX connection isn't proprietary, it's pretty uncommon. Expect about $100 right now per replacement, though Ety embracing the standard may encourage third party cable manufacturers to stock the connectors moving forward. Ety's Bluetooth adapters are already pretty impressive; I can't imagine it would be too tough to release an IPX variant of that.


EtyDave has hinted at an IPX Bluetooth cable.  I do hope that ends up happening too  


erockg said:


> Correct.  Confirmed above somewhere.  Bummer, but maybe someone will make a TWS solution.


There are adapters that likely do exist to go from IPX to MMCX or 2-pin...  But the manufacturer of the connectors does say to be weary of fake connectors 🤷‍♂️


----------



## miserybeforethemusic (Mar 11, 2021)

pk4425 said:


> I'm tighter than two coats of paint. So, if an extension saves me money, no f*cks given about taking my information. Big Brother can watch me all he wants if he saves me bucks. I have nothing to hide. Well, not much ...


Why, oh why didn't I take the blue pill.

These 85t foam tips are pretty neat. A little goofy as I can't use them on any other pair I own (too wide), but they keep their shape/spring decently. Think they're overpriced at a little under $20 for the set. Way more comfy over time than the stock gels. On that alone, worth it and I'd even be willing to pay for a replacement set if they won't comp the tips that were damaged.


----------



## Typo2

tinyman392 said:


> I know the Libratone TWS were brought up a couple days ago...  The measurements Crinacle has for them actually don’t look half bad.  Really big sub-bass boost, like a 10 dB bump shelf starting at 100 Hz peaking around 30-ish Hz.
> 
> Edit: it would help if I showed the plot, huh?



That measurement looks like its with the bass boost preset of the buds on to me. I wouldnt have said these were bassy at all in their 'neutral' eq. If anything they are a bit bass shy without boosting the bass. They sound decent overall and pretty neutral. Nothing special but better than most and no overdone v shape. Kef Mu3 make them sound like a toy however, yet I still use the libratones over the kef for the form factor and foam tips...they are just so convenient.

Still waiting on trying..

1more colorbuds pro/tws anc pro when released - bluetooth 5.2 brings multipoint... .hoping these can end my search.
Bowers and wilkings pi7 - ugly but interesting
May try the geminis when back in stock but the hockey puck sized case puts me off l

If my track air die/all of the above fail ill probably go back to the mu3s. I feel like we are getting close to good sound AND convenience/features. So close. Hoping to see more multi point pairs.


----------



## Darkestred

pk4425 said:


> I strongly suggest the Honey browser extension for Chrome if you shop often at Amazon. It shows you the price history of the item over the last month or two, and you would be shocked how much the price of items fluctuates at Amazon, even outside of traditional sale periods. It's almost like gas prices.
> 
> Honey also alerts you when an item you've short-listed with them drops in price. It's a really cool, free service.
> 
> ...


Dont mean to take this off topic but is it the same as keepa?  I use that and it shows a chart of the prices.


----------



## Caipirina

samandhi said:


> Yeah, I have always loved the StayHear wings, they have just the right amount of rigidity to keep them in place, but never get "Hot" in the ear.
> 
> MT wings = Melomania Touch wings = not near as comfortable even when they fit correctly.
> 
> I have found most Bose phones to have meh sound (to be honest), but most times they can be EQ'ed pretty well. I just have a hard time spending the kinda' money they ask for meh headphones. It reminds me of the Beats fad....



That's an interesting comparison .. and maybe that's why I like the Bose House Sound, I was never terribly offended by the Beats ... it was more the crazy hype around them and they were the flag ship fake item back in the day / early internet trading with China and such ...  I had my pair of fake beats just because they looked pretty .. had some real ones (still said that one lost it's ANC ability on one side, me idiot actually used them in the gym and killed them with sweat!)

Another kind of wings I really get along with great are the ones that come with the Sabbat X12, it's a bit of a hazzle to put on each time (together with earbud foams for better fit), but they stay in on runs for hours)


----------



## pk4425

Darkestred said:


> Dont mean to take this off topic but is it the same as keepa?  I use that and it shows a chart of the prices.


Not sure. Never used Keepa. Sorry.


----------



## Canabuc

I know it's been it a while but what are profiles options of the M&D MW07+?
They are going for just over 200$US at Costco.
Trying to find an audiophile bud with good transparency comfortable and secure fit. ANC is a bonus.

I have tried every non foam tip on my JBLs and best fit are the soundcore tips but they are still not the best. Seal is good sound is good but any vigorous head movement and I feel them unseat.

If they had amazing ANC I would love with it but their ANC is near zero so there is little benefits over the MT. I do prefer how on them and the Sony I can activate a talk thru mode easy that also reduces the music volume. Or in the MTW2 and Jabra can pause it.
Sony and JBL have better dual iteration for always on vs transient.
Same with Samsung where it is talk activated.

Leaning towards the MT just because I think the secure fit means they will be useful for workouts too.


----------



## erockg

Got the new Libratone Air+ today.  Enjoying the sound.  ANC still being evaluated.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

Looks like WWS has adjusted their product page to price-match the AZ70W. Definitely recommend these guys after the way they took care of me. They do support ID.me for you vets and government workers out there...

https://www.worldwidestereo.com/pro...ess-earbuds-with-noise-cancelling?color=Black


----------



## dj24

Bobbetybob said:


> Shanling M0/Fiio M5 might be good options, they both have older Bluetooth versions (4.1/4.2) though.





miserybeforethemusic said:


> @dj24 think this might suit your needs:
> https://store.hiby.com/products/hiby-r3-pro
> 
> BT 5.0 and 2-way LDAC, plus an Android OS should at least give you the ability to have modern-ish Bluetooth and whatever app you like for gapless, though HiBy makes a great app on its own and that's the one that's cooked into the DAP. There's also a slightly more premium model with dual Sabre ES9218P DACs for those who are firmly in team ESS. Think it runs you an extra $10, so they're not asking too much, in my opinion.
> ...



Thanks!  I ended up getting the Fiio M5 as it's size seemed ideal for running/ workouts.  'Supposedly has bluetooth & gapless playback as well.


----------



## pk4425

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Looks like WWS has adjusted their product page to price-match the AZ70W. Definitely recommend these guys after the way they took care of me. They do support ID.me for you vets and government workers out there...
> 
> https://www.worldwidestereo.com/pro...ess-earbuds-with-noise-cancelling?color=Black


I forgot to mention this during our conversation here today: Thank you for your service to our country, sir!


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

pk4425 said:


> I forgot to mention this during our conversation here today: Thank you for your service to our country, sir!


Appreciate it. Just glad there was something to come home to. Best thanks I could ever get is to see that kindness paid forward.


----------



## FYLegend

samandhi said:


> OMG, I STILL have the Piston 2's, and while I don't really listen to them anymore, I DID like them back then (though they were overcooked in the bass department for sure). I have the white ones, and the brown (chocolate ones). BTW. They do still smell like chocolate if you put your nose right up to them.. hehe
> 
> They sounded amazing for $12 though. Funny thing is $12 was the regular price and they were still cloned like crazy....


I had the Piston 3's which are literally collecting dust on the ground somewhere among tangled wires in my computer room. They had good value overall with a punchy bass but the treble response was underwhelming for me, and the cable started developing kinks underneath the woven fabric. Sound reminds me a bit of TaoTronics SoundLiberty 94

I had the SHE3580 but didn't realize the hype about it until years later when I got the 3590 to replace it (broken cable). My main gripe was the cable and for whatever reason one side sealed with more bass than the other (which doesn't happen with other IEMs). The SHE8100 and SHE3900 sealed a bit better though. I also remember the Audio-Technica CKM500 (these broke quickly for me) and IM70 hype trains. I really enjoyed the IM70's W-shaped sound but one day lost them and now they cost a fortune. Astrotec S60, Sabbat E12 Ultra and 1More ANC have some similar sonic aspects but differ in other ways.


----------



## BenKatz

Linus Jian said:


> First thing I did when I received the xm3 is to change the settings... Been using a lot of sony bluetooth speakers / headphones, dsee is not a secret to me. And I didn't say the resolution of the xm3 is the worst in the realm of tws. But it's average or below even in the tws world, and for people like me that favor resolution/listen to complex music, it's unbearable.
> 
> To give you an example, nural n6pro which is also a pair of tws, has much better resolution than the xm3.
> 
> And also like I said, music files make ton of difference, if most of the time you are listening to pop songs thru spotify I can see why it's hard for you to tell the difference.



Yeah, I more than completely disagree. If your assement of the XM3 is that the rewolution of the XM3 is "average or below even in the TWS world", I'm now 100% sure your pair was defective.

As I said, I compared them to the TWS Technics AZ70, Sennheiser Momentum 2, in-ear wired Campfire Audio Polaris v2, Sony XBA-N1a, and the XM3 came definitely on top of the TWS, and very competitive in some aspects (some better, some worse) than the wired high-end-ish ones.

And Idk what you are listening to, but you definitely don't kno what I'm listenin to  I don't even use spotify, I use tidal, and no, I don't listen to POP, so you needn't worry about the "music file" differences. 

Trust me, as I said before, considering the overwhelming number of reviews and comparisons of the XM3 online, (even disregarding mine which is quite extensive), saying that the XM3 have "trash" resolution or are below average even for TWS truly does mean that you have had a defective model.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic (Mar 12, 2021)

Now that I've got the Pixel 3a up and running, I can start to run some preliminary battery tests. Think this might come in handy considering I've gotten really irritated seeing the usual review suite not cover things like what battery life is like when ANC is off (specifically regarding the Technics). So here's my first run on the AZ70W:

Test Conditions:

Device - Google Pixel 3a (on WiFi only)
Media Player - Spotify, Very High Quality, playing every random long playlist I can
Volume - 50%
Ambient Sound Control - Normal (No ANC, No Hearthrough)
Sound Enhancement (EQ) - Off
Milestones:

11:20 - 100%, start of test
14:20 - 70%
15:20 - 50%
18:20 - 20%, test ended
After 4 data points, I think I can make a logical conclusion that battery life would be close to 7-8 hours with ANC/Hearthrough off and at 50% volume. Makes sense, considering the estimates with ANC on are about 6 hours and I blew well past that without effort. Honestly, 50% is probably going to be a little too loud for at-home listening with what passive seal the body and tips provide; you probably still could, but it would end up fatiguing after a while.

Keep in mind this is a stress test; I don't know many people who are going to have the ability to start one of these 10+ hour playlists and just keep it running continuously (kudos if you can, though!). There will be times where you're not listening to anything, times when phone calls occur, etc and those all have battery impact. For most, this disclaimer should be obvious, but some people may not think about these things.

Also, I dropped both buds into the Technics charger and just left it alone overnight to see if I could catch any symptoms of the parasitic drain issue that's been reported. Figured that the buds would tax the battery enough, so I should at least lose _one_ bar on the battery indicator, right? Nope. Still a full battery the next morning. I'll continue to monitor, though.


BenKatz said:


> Yeah, I more than completely disagree. If your assement of the XM3 is that the rewolution of the XM3 is "average or below even in the TWS world", I'm now 100% sure your pair was defective.


I think we can all agree that Linus has a particular set of requirements and standards for his listening equipment that some of us are willing to be a little more liberal with. Instead of being at each other's throats about it, how about we just acknowledge we have different tastes and the squabbles don't matter. Maybe Linus' pair is defective or maybe his ears are spoiled; happens more easily than you'd think.

But this exchange did encourage me to start looking into buying another set of Etymotics (not the multi-BA one, though that's pretty awesome) to use as a reference point. I noticed they have a pretty decent-looking BT cable that mates up with the ER4XR and uses an AKM DAC along with support for aptX/HD/LL and respectable battery life. While it won't be TWS-level, may just be the next best thing.

Man, I haven't owned a set of Etys since the mid-2000s...


----------



## tinyman392

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Now that I've got the Pixel 3a up and running, I can start to run some preliminary battery tests. Think this might come in handy considering I've gotten really irritated seeing the usual review suite not cover things like what battery life is like when ANC is off (specifically regarding the Technics). So here's my first run on the AZ70W:
> 
> Test Conditions:
> 
> ...


People have really been enjoying the ER2 as of late as well, Adorama is still selling the ER4 for like 130 bucks or something I think if you have the right link.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic (Mar 12, 2021)

tinyman392 said:


> People have really been enjoying the ER2 as of late as well, Adorama is still selling the ER4 for like 130 bucks or something I think if you have the right link.


I noticed Sweetwater's doing some call-in pricing as well, so reached out to my rep to see exactly how much less than $300 they're asking for the ER4XR. Adorama's burnt me in the past with keeping me strung along with items I thought were on backorder but had, in fact, been discontinued, but $130 new for either of the ER2 is really, really good.

Edit, even cheaper than $130 right now. Woah.
https://www.adorama.com/etyer2xr.html


----------



## Canabuc

Huawei freebuds pro en route. Idea of great ANC and multi pairing are enticing me.


----------



## darveniza

Canabuc said:


> Huawei freebuds pro en route. Idea of great ANC and multi pairing are enticing me.


I have the Huawei are very good. Like the ANC and sound. A bit difficult to get out the case. But aside from this is really awesome


----------



## Womaz

miserybeforethemusic said:


> I noticed Sweetwater's doing some call-in pricing as well, so reached out to my rep to see exactly how much less than $300 they're asking for the ER4XR. Adorama's burnt me in the past with keeping me strung along with items I thought were on backorder but had, in fact, been discontinued, but $130 new for either of the ER2 is really, really good.
> 
> Edit, even cheaper than $130 right now. Woah.
> https://www.adorama.com/etyer2xr.html


You get some great deals in the USA. in the UK the ER4XR are over £300


----------



## Canabuc

darveniza said:


> I have the Huawei are very good. Like the ANC and sound. A bit difficult to get out the case. But aside from this is really awesome
> [/QUOTE
> The trick to get it if the case is to use thumb to push the head of the bud back then pull upwards.
> 
> How is the sound. I have had universally that bass and mids are great. Some reviews say treble not great other reviews say these are best buds they have heard with one reviewer looking sound as much as the MTW2.


----------



## bladefd

Womaz said:


> You get some great deals in the USA. in the UK the ER4XR are over £300


Is that with taxes included or are taxes tacked on top of that??


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

Womaz said:


> You get some great deals in the USA. in the UK the ER4XR are over £300






We get some really good ones on eBay, too. Ironically, this is exactly how I got my 4P almost a couple decades ago and I spent _less_ this time around.


----------



## Canabuc

New firmware for MT


----------



## tinyman392

miserybeforethemusic said:


> I noticed Sweetwater's doing some call-in pricing as well, so reached out to my rep to see exactly how much less than $300 they're asking for the ER4XR. Adorama's burnt me in the past with keeping me strung along with items I thought were on backorder but had, in fact, been discontinued, but $130 new for either of the ER2 is really, really good.
> 
> Edit, even cheaper than $130 right now. Woah.
> https://www.adorama.com/etyer2xr.html



Adorama can do much better if you know secrets.  

ER2SE: 55 USD
ER2XR: 100 USD
ER4XR: 129 USD
ER4SR: 129 USD


----------



## miserybeforethemusic (Mar 12, 2021)

Canabuc said:


> New firmware for MT


So far ahead of the pulse, you beat Cambridge to releasing its own statement on their ZenDesk about the update. Latest change notes they have are for v1.2.3:

https://melomania.zendesk.com/hc/en...What-is-the-current-Melomania-Touch-Firmware-

Update process itself went soooooo much better than 1.2.3. No multiple attempts, only one temporary hangup at 99% on the Right bud, but everything pushed properly. Took screenshots along the way for reasons:


Spoiler: Firmware Update Process










Post-update, things seem to be in working order. I even attempted to force the volume bug to occur and couldn't. Subjectively speaking, I think there are audible improvements to both Hearthrough and the overall tuning (both positives). I did notice, however, that the touch surface is still hypersensitive and it seems that Neutron won't resume from the buds anymore if you do accidentally pause while listening. That being said, the pros outweigh the cons and hopefully this also means those of you who were considering returns might want to give them one more shot before finally calling it quits.

Oh yeah, postal clerk rang the doorbell while I was updating/posting and dropped something off from a far away land. Regulars in the classifieds might be able to figure out who these came from. A massive thank you to this member! Really looking forward to enjoying these.
​Nevermind the AZ70W on the right. They're just going through Day 2 of their bass workout. Currently playing:


----------



## Canabuc

Yes the MT seems like the upper range is clearer and soundstage seems a bit wider. It's as if the upper bass was tamed a bit to allow the mids and lower treble to breathe more


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

tinyman392 said:


> Adorama can do much better if you know secrets.
> 
> ER2SE: 55 USD
> ER2XR: 100 USD
> ...


One of these days, you'll have to teach me


----------



## erockg

miserybeforethemusic said:


> So far ahead of the pulse, you beat Cambridge to releasing its own statement on their ZenDesk about the update. Latest change notes they have are for v1.2.3:
> 
> https://melomania.zendesk.com/hc/en...What-is-the-current-Melomania-Touch-Firmware-
> 
> ...



Do I need those NFP's?  Are they worth the $300+?  Keep putting them in my cart but hold off.


----------



## pholcus1975

Just updated MT, it took 2 attempts before it got right. There seems to be less bass bloating and overall added clarity.


----------



## samandhi

miserybeforethemusic said:


> So far ahead of the pulse, you beat Cambridge to releasing its own statement on their ZenDesk about the update. Latest change notes they have are for v1.2.3:
> 
> https://melomania.zendesk.com/hc/en...What-is-the-current-Melomania-Touch-Firmware-
> 
> ...



Awesome, ya' junkie! 

I just want some of that candy.


----------



## Canabuc

pholcus1975 said:


> Just updated MT, it took 2 attempts before it got right. There seems to be less bass bloating and overall added clarity.


Yes. It is like they carved a way some bloat in the upper bass and soundstage opened up.

Cx400bt going back and likely JBL too as I just love the sound. Will accept no matter what tip fin combo I can't get my right ear perfect but this is true for every bud. But I can get it comfortable and with good seal 95% of the time. 100% if I don't smile lol.

Thinking them and Huawei could be a good 1-2 punch. Huawei has top of line ANC with a good sound mumtipairing so can use with more than one device at a time.

Think I'm done right now.
Only thing that has me intrigued is the B&W tws as I love their over ear P7W and if they can put that sound in an earbud with multiple drivers ANC transparency and a case that can act as a Bluetooth transmitter,.....


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

erockg said:


> Do I need those NFP's?  Are they worth the $300+?  Keep putting them in my cart but hold off.


I'll need way more time with them to make that impression, but I'll say yes if the following reasons are high up in your considerations:

Wireless charging works flawlessly
Super-strong magnets in what is now almost the smallest case in my lineup (dimension for dimension almost identical to the JBLs)
Ear tips have the absolute widest bore possible; 
True IEM insertion (these suckers almost go Ety deep and still manage to seal)
Super-lightweight buds that seem to just fit like a glove...you'd think this was a no-brainer for Noble, but anybody who's ever tried to get the fit right on some of their non-customs know what I'm talking about
Hearthrough that works so well, I can actually hear my wife and make out what she's saying, even if she's on a completely different floor...and it doesn't sound robotic. It gets more sensitive when music is playing and definitely amplifies my keystrokes when working. Unfortunately, there's only two modes (on and off) and no adjustability. I don't hate it, but I also don't particularly appreciate the implementation; I'll just say I'm somewhere in the middle
But if you want sound impressions, those are going to take a while. Out of the box, they're definitely treble-tilted with neutral bass but can still rumble if the track requires it. Once you get past the shock of that, they're extremely coherent and, dare I say, IEM-like. The lighter weight + lack of a cable really does bely the NFP's sound signature. Relative to the Technics, they're a little more neutral on stock EQ, but don't seem to suffer from the same presence region spike of the AZ70Ws, which lends credence to my suspicions that the usage of AAC over Android was crippling the Technics. Regardless, I can now basically stream bit-perfect 24/48 over BT again and I'm a happy camper...haven't had that since the TRN BT adapter days.

I did ask for a microphone quality test from my mother-in-law and she didn't even know I was on Bluetooth. I'll take that as a big pro. No word on how they work at blocking out environmental noise yet, but based on the insertion of these, it wouldn't surprise me if passive isolation takes care of the majority of external noise. Hope so, because these have zero ANC.


----------



## DJ XtAzY (Mar 12, 2021)

Update went smoothly for me. I just hope MT's new firmware address some of the battery issues I've been having. If they improve connectivity issues, that would also be great. I hope they put out the release notes soon. Other then that, I'm still addicted to the tuning, makes them very hard for me to return them despite the issues I listed.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic (Mar 12, 2021)

DJ XtAzY said:


> Update went smoothly for me. I just hope MT's new firmware address some of the battery issues I've been having. If they improve connectivity issues, that would also be great. I hope they put out the release notes soon. Other then that, I'm still addicted to the tuning, makes them very hard for me to return them despite the issues I listed.


What's weird is, despite the firmware update rolling out this morning, Cambridge still processed my RMA instead of suggesting I update my firmware. Wish they would have; I think that just took care of everything. Now I have to decide whether the RMA is really necessary; might cancel it if no other problems come up over the weekend.

Seems like getting them to charge in the case was even easier, but might have just been expectation bias at play.

And these Nobles are good. Really, really good. Haven't seen them slip up on a single genre yet.


----------



## Canabuc

miserybeforethemusic said:


> What's weird is, despite the firmware update rolling out this morning, Cambridge still processed my RMA instead of suggesting I update my firmware. Wish they would have; I think that just took care of everything. Now I have to decide whether the RMA is really necessary; might cancel it if no other problems come up over the weekend.
> 
> Seems like getting them to charge in the case was even easier, but might have just been expectation bias at play.
> 
> And these Nobles are good. Really, really good. Haven't seen them slip up on a single genre yet.


Should hope they are good. They are the most expensive TWS out at the moment!


----------



## bladefd (Mar 12, 2021)

I look forward to this MT update tonight when I get some quiet around the house!



Canabuc said:


> *Think I'm done right now.*
> Only thing that has me intrigued is the B&W tws as I love their over ear P7W and if they can put that sound in an earbud with multiple drivers ANC transparency and a case that can act as a Bluetooth transmitter,.....


Just give it a couple of days and for someone to mention other earbuds. You will be right back in the game! 

I only stopped because I am past return window for MT and out of capital to make any other purchase. I got forcefully thrown out to the street lol


----------



## chinmie (Mar 12, 2021)

https://www.kickstarter.com/project...y-switch-audio-across-infinite-devices-any-os

i saw this yesterday..seems interesting, but haven't heard of the company before, seems to be an offshoot of Creative. 

keypoint that interesting for me is the 24 hours per single charge and the single Knowles BA config. the controls from the case is also interesting, but it doesn't say if it can also be controlled from the earpieces or not


----------



## erockg

Got the new Melomania 1+.  Not much new to report.  Nice to have the EQ option.  Honestly, my old ears do not notice a HUGE difference between these and the MT which I returned.  The 1+ fit me better.  Plus, the case is tiny.


----------



## erockg

bladefd said:


> I look forward to this MT update tonight when I get some quiet around the house!
> 
> 
> Just give it a couple of days and for someone to mention other earbuds. You will be right back in the game!
> ...


Amazon has a great return policy.  Do it.  You know you want to


----------



## Canabuc

bladefd said:


> I look forward to this MT update tonight when I get some quiet around the house!
> 
> 
> Just give it a couple of days and for someone to mention other earbuds. You will be right back in the game!
> ...


Lol.
Nothing really exciting getting announced. I guess the xm4 would be interesting

I'm actually disappointed of the releases given the quality of chips out there. Why so few buds have mumtipairing or APTX adaptive or better ANC.

Literally Jabra and Huawei only 2 with true multipairing and Jabra wit master slave.

Kinda sad. Figured by now everything should be multipair, Qi charging multi driver long battery life with hi res by connection.

And really none have all that. Closest is Huawei and noone even talks about them except as ? Chinese company Spying on USA.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

Canabuc said:


> Should hope they are good. They are the most expensive TWS out at the moment!


Maybe in the sense that they're currently available, but the B&W PI7 will have them beat on release. I think they're good, but you're talking about serious diminishing returns here.


chinmie said:


> https://www.kickstarter.com/project...y-switch-audio-across-infinite-devices-any-os
> 
> i saw this yesterday..seems interesting, but haven't heard of the company before, seems to be an offshoot of Creative.
> 
> keypoint that interesting for me is the 24 hours per single charge and the single Knowles BA config. the controls from the case is also interesting, but it doesn't say if it can also be controlled from the earpieces or not


That's pretty smart. Don't know how people are going to feel about the screen in reality, though. Great idea in theory.


Canabuc said:


> Lol.
> Nothing really exciting getting announced. I guess the xm4 would be interesting
> 
> I'm actually disappointed of the releases given the quality of chips out there. Why so few buds have mumtipairing or APTX adaptive or better ANC.
> ...


Don't think many people want to be on the development hook for making multipoint work. Soundcore Q30 do a really good job with it, though, and I guess they kinda act as proof that it probably doesn't require a huge admission price to implement. May just not be worth enough to the bean-counters who determine what features are worth investing in.


----------



## Canabuc

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Maybe in the sense that they're currently available, but the B&W PI7 will have them beat on release. I think they're good, but you're talking about serious diminishing returns here.
> 
> That's pretty smart. Don't know how people are going to feel about the screen in reality, though. Great idea in theory.
> 
> Don't think many people want to be on the development hook for making multipoint work. Soundcore Q30 do a really good job with it, though, and I guess they kinda act as proof that it probably doesn't require a huge admission price to implement. May just not be worth enough to the bean-counters who determine what features are worth investing in.


My Jabra from 3 years ago have multipoint. My mw50 headphones also do and they are Bluetooth 4.2

There is no excuse for it not to be common place especially given how ubiquitous Bluetooth devices requiring audio are.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

Canabuc said:


> There is no excuse for it not to be common place especially given how ubiquitous Bluetooth devices requiring audio are.


Long-term development cost


----------



## chinmie

miserybeforethemusic said:


> That's pretty smart. Don't know how people are going to feel about the screen in reality, though. Great idea in theory.



yes, that aspect is a bit worrying for me, because it's kinda like having a tiny phone just to control the TWS.. i do hope they add direct control too.


----------



## CocaCola15 (Mar 12, 2021)

erockg said:


> Got the new Melomania 1+.  Not much new to report.  Nice to have the EQ option.  Honestly, my old ears do not notice a HUGE difference between these and the MT which I returned.  The 1+ fit me better.  Plus, the case is tiny.


Listening to the original M1, which I’ve owned for more than a year, the M1+  Is an upgrade. I “forgot” the originals on my iphone 8+ and LG V20 and now moved to the M1+. I also had the Touch, returned it. Too wonky and I actually prefer the M1+ for comfort/fit with foam tips. And my ears are old too!


----------



## Mouseman

chinmie said:


> yes, that aspect is a bit worrying for me, because it's kinda like having a tiny phone just to control the TWS.. i do hope they add direct control too.


It says in the FAQ that they also have tap control and always on voice assistant. Although I didn't see which ones.


----------



## erockg

CocaCola15 said:


> Listening to the original M1, which I’ve owned for more than a year, the M1+  Is an upgrade. I “forgot” the originals on my iphone 8+ and LG V20 and now moved to the M1+. I also had the Touch, returned it. Too wonky and I actually prefer the M1+ for comfort/fit with foam tips. And my ears are old too!


Love the EQ.  The soundstage is great.  I’ve always been a sucker for the bullet form factor and all the small TWS earbuds.


----------



## bladefd

I do wonder if the 5.8mm drivers on M1+ versus 7mm drivers on MT creates a difference in sound quality/volume/etc. It might be worth $10 extra to just go to the Touch's bigger drivers if everything else is pretty much the same (except for the OEM foam tips support).

I also suspect that once the original Melomania 1 runs out of stock, they will slash the 1+ price to be around where the original 1's are currently at. The Touch with bigger drivers being only $10 more severely cripples the 1+'s ability to sell so they are probably just waiting for the original 1s to sell out.


----------



## Caipirina

my local TWS shopping options ... whaddayathink? Should I get those EarStuds?




I even saw one shop having the Gear Icon x in their window. Might even be the real deal. But sure they still want to have like 300us$ for them


----------



## Caipirina

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Looks like WWS has adjusted their product page to price-match the AZ70W. Definitely recommend these guys after the way they took care of me. They do support ID.me for you vets and government workers out there...
> 
> https://www.worldwidestereo.com/pro...ess-earbuds-with-noise-cancelling?color=Black



Wow .. and few months ago I was willing to spend like 300$ on them ... glad I stuck with the cheaper Panasonics ... at 140 I would totally get them as well!


----------



## CocaCola15

bladefd said:


> I do wonder if the 5.8mm drivers on M1+ versus 7mm drivers on MT creates a difference in sound quality/volume/etc. It might be worth $10 extra to just go to the Touch's bigger drivers if everything else is pretty much the same (except for the OEM foam tips support).
> 
> I also suspect that once the original Melomania 1 runs out of stock, they will slash the 1+ price to be around where the original 1's are currently at. The Touch with bigger drivers being only $10 more severely cripples the 1+'s ability to sell so they are probably just waiting for the original 1s to sell out.


You may well be right. For me, the driver size difference was not an issue, I just prefer the M1+ over the Touch because I do prefer the fit and the M1+ sounds very very good. CA will probably drop the price on the M1+ and the Touch at some point. I paid 129 for the original M1, it went down to $79 for a bit, now at $99. But that’s okay. I’m happy with the upgrade. With the M1+ and Status Audio Between Pro on hand, TW stable is solid. Just waiting for the specially tuned Earfun Free Pro to arrive, took a flyer on it at $69.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

Hah found a solution to your buds falling out. Seems horribly impractical, but it's getting funding:
https://www.kickstarter.com/project...successful_discover_project_recommendations_4


----------



## chinmie

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Hah found a solution to your buds falling out. Seems horribly impractical, but it's getting funding:
> https://www.kickstarter.com/project...successful_discover_project_recommendations_4



i think I'll stick to wearing buffs or beanies for that purpose


----------



## Mouseman

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Hah found a solution to your buds falling out. Seems horribly impractical, but it's getting funding:
> https://www.kickstarter.com/project...successful_discover_project_recommendations_4


But it says "ultimate comfort"! 
I have a couple of rubberbands that are cheaper than $25 and available now...


----------



## Kuli (Mar 13, 2021)

Just ordered Oluv's tuned earfun free pro. It sounds promising and I just watched his video below comparing against it to Sony XM3, Lypertek, Soundcore LAP, Sony MH1, Moondrop Blessing and it sure sounds great. Comparison starts at 17.30

Was shocked how the XM3 fared


----------



## CocaCola15 (Mar 13, 2021)

I’m in for one as well. Curiosity killed the walllet. I’ve owned the Soundcore L2P, Sony and Tevi, but not the LAP. Did not end up keeping any of the three.


----------



## Canabuc

CocaCola15 said:


> I’m in for one as well. Curiosity killed the walllet. I’ve owned the Soundcore L2P, Sony and Tevi, but not the LAP. Did not end up keeping any of the three.


I bought the Fiil version sucks to have Chinese as only voice and app configuration but I can EQ it how I like and they sound great.
These are great value set of earbuds.


----------



## DJ XtAzY (Mar 13, 2021)

DJ XtAzY said:


> Update went smoothly for me. I just hope MT's new firmware address some of the battery issues I've been having. If they improve connectivity issues, that would also be great. I hope they put out the release notes soon. Other then that, I'm still addicted to the tuning, makes them very hard for me to return them despite the issues I listed.


Just to give a quick update on MT's new firmware. I think the battery drainage has significantly improved and pretty balanced between each bud (4% difference). I've lost about 25% after listening to them for a about 2 hours. Before one of the earbuds would drop to 65% in about an hour, while the other is around 80%. Fyi I am using the Low Power mode. I'll retest with the High Performance mode one day, but I don't find night and day difference between the quality, and will stick with low until I return from a trip.

No random connectivity drops so far.


----------



## CocaCola15

Canabuc said:


> I bought the Fiil version sucks to have Chinese as only voice and app configuration but I can EQ it how I like and they sound great.
> These are great value set of earbuds.


So the Fiil version is the one tuned by Oluv too? Looking forward to it.


----------



## Canabuc

Freebuds pro arrived. 
First impressions. Case is very nice and Qi charging!
Took some time to figure out how to install the correct ai life app. This gives you full control of buds etc.

The design and fit are great! With largest tips in the fit is secure and comfortable. Generally not easy for me.

The controls are amazing!you grip the stem. It gives a haptic feedback of a click.
You can toggle ance ambient and off. Change tracks forward back play pause.

Volume control on buds is amazing!slide up and down stem with finger.

ANC is freaking great! Up there with the Sony in limited testing and has 4 modes from dynamic where it figures out level needed. Then there are three other modes.

Made one call and was crystal clear no complaints from other side.
Did not test if ambient canned active during a call.

Oh and Didi I mention it has multipairing? Yes you can connect to your iPad and phone or PC at same time.

Has auto pause when removing a bud too.
Now for the sound......

There is unfortunately no built in EQ on the app. Out of the box the tuning is a bit warm. Mids and bass are very nice. Treble is very reminiscent of the Jabra 85t. Misses a bit of the highs so a bit rolled off.
Not fatiguing but not energetic.

Decided to install wavelet which I still don't understand how some times I need legacy mode and not others..

Unfortunately no auto EQ profile.

Decided to use the graphic equalizer and eq up the treble and a bit of the sub bass region. Sound came alive more.

No it's not the MT but it sounds overall quite good.
 Gonna give some more time with them but could be a good all rounder like the 85t.

Would be a nice complement with the MT.


----------



## SilverEars (Mar 13, 2021)

I hope one day we get a very tiny ANC TWS that's on the level of full-sized XM3 level of ANC with at least 10 hrs of continuous battery life.  I'm starting to see how useful it would be for sleep.  I'm a very light sleeper, so this would be very practical.

This is all I ask for these days. lol

Sized like this.  One day....


----------



## Canabuc

CocaCola15 said:


> So the Fiil version is the one tuned by Oluv too? Looking forward to it.



the Ear fun free Pro is the Fiil t1 Pro that Earfun has basically licensed under their own name. The only difference is that they have the firmware tuned to a particular sound profile. There is no EQ or app and the buttons are set a certain way and not customizable. The fill t1 Pro on the other hand has a Chinese app where you have at least eight preset equalizers as well as one that you can customize that is a 10 band equalizer. Additionally you can customize to some degree The touch settings.


----------



## erockg

SilverEars said:


> I hope one day we get a very tiny ANC TWS that's on the level of full-sized XM3 level of ANC with at least 10 hrs of continuous battery life.  I'm starting to see how useful it would be for sleep.  I'm a very light sleeper, so this would be very practical.
> 
> This is all I ask for these days. lol
> 
> Sized like this.  One day....


I have those Bose Sleepbuds II.  They have their flaws but man, they do help my sleep issues for sure.


----------



## PixelSquish

SilverEars said:


> I hope one day we get a very tiny ANC TWS that's on the level of full-sized XM3 level of ANC with at least 10 hrs of continuous battery life.  I'm starting to see how useful it would be for sleep.  I'm a very light sleeper, so this would be very practical.
> 
> This is all I ask for these days. lol
> 
> Sized like this.  One day....



Going to need a significant technological break in battery technology for that to ever happen


----------



## samandhi (Mar 13, 2021)

I downloaded the new FW for the MT today. Boy, has the sound signature changed. All the reviews that have been done about these so far (for the sound part anyhow) can be thrown out the window. They didn't just tweak them a bit, these are totally different buds than what I bought. Will have to let you know later if I like them or not, because it is going to take time to get used to the different signature.

First impressions though are that I don't like how far they took the sub-bass. It seems like it can still go deep, but all the punch is gone (even trying to boost with EQ). The detail retrieval is much better on the treble end, but (again) I think they overdid it a bit, and it makes the whole sound thin. Mids are still recessed a lot, and sound very thin and not warm at all.

With the way they were tuned before, at least I could decrease the bass and boost the mids, and get a decent sound. At the moment I am not able to tune the bass up enough to get some of that punch back (even boosting it so far it overpowers the mids). It just becomes one bassy sound. It almost seems as though they tried to re-tune it for both the consumer masses, AND the audiophile, and have failed at both.

But, I digress, and will have to listen to them for longer before passing that label with confidence. It might come down to something like my Sennheiser HD700 (if anyone remembers how polarizing those were) where they were just so odd of a sound, at first listen one hated them, but the more one listened the better they sounded.

Edit: NM. Disregard almost all the above. Must be something going on with my Neutron player.... I opened up UAPP and started playing the same songs, and it doesn't sound the same at all. They DID reduce the overall bass, and boosted the treble (and left the mids recessed), but it doesn't sound the same as it did in Neutron by far. The sound HAS changed though, I'm thinking in a positive way now?!


----------



## SilverEars

erockg said:


> I have those Bose Sleepbuds II.  They have their flaws but man, they do help my sleep issues for sure.


Big issue: Not ANC.


PixelSquish said:


> Going to need a significant technological break in battery technology for that to ever happen


I know, I know...


----------



## Canabuc

ANC can't work in a sleep bud. The microphones will pick up the hard moving against the sheets or pillow.


----------



## CocaCola15

Canabuc said:


> the Ear fun free Pro is the Fiil t1 Pro that Earfun has basically licensed under their own name. The only difference is that they have the firmware tuned to a particular sound profile. There is no EQ or app and the buttons are set a certain way and not customizable. The fill t1 Pro on the other hand has a Chinese app where you have at least eight preset equalizers as well as one that you can customize that is a 10 band equalizer. Additionally you can customize to some degree The touch settings.


So the Oluv version from Earfun is a different sounding TW in-ear from the stock Free Pro offered by Fiil, but the latter gives you an app and EQ? Of course, one can always use their player app to EQ the sound of any in-ear, so there is that option. I use the 20-band EQ on the Kaiser Audio app when called for, listening to onboard source music. If I am streaming, then no EQ using the service I have, which is Amazon HD music. But that's fine. In any case, looking forward to Oluv's take on an already popular and inexpensive TW ear phone.


----------



## bronco1015

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Yep. I've seen several people suggest it's a dressed-up version of the Panasonic RZ-S500W with a slightly different tuning and some extra features. All changes I think help the AZ70W for the better, but I almost _hated _it out of the box. Compared to just about every other TWS in my arsenal right now, these have no shame when it comes to everything from the upper-midrange on up. The same veil that keeps a lot of the other pairs from being fatiguing is gone, meaning you're now free to have your ears wrecked by subpar recordings...in the beginning.
> 
> But after about a day of running a Harman-ish EQ on them, just casually listening to music at moderate volumes, I think the DD Panasonic chose to put in both units loosens up just enough to smooth over some of that top-end bite. I'm guessing it has to do with loosening up the coated PEEK diaphragm, but it could also just be my ears getting used to things. They're still not as detailed as the UEs up top and, allegedly, the N6Pro. Might have to investigate that one a little more closely, though I need another set of TWS like I need another hole in my head or animal in the house.
> 
> Long story short, they can now run on stock EQ without being overly fatiguing and without losing the low-end weight that really makes these things stand out on drum tracks. Just wish they had aptX.


i own both the N6P and AZ70. IMO the N6P does best the Technics in detail but when looking at the big picture, what each pair offers in SQ and features in the case of the AZ70, as the N6p have no ambient, ANC etc,  plus other TWEs you have, the better detail isn't worth the money imo. Also, the n6p has an aggressive treble out of the box just like the AZ70 do. It settles down though. on the other hand, the N6P have APTX, each iem has full controls, meaning play-pause, track navigation and volume control which i love for books, podcasts etc when i just use 1.


----------



## samandhi

bronco1015 said:


> i own both the N6P and AZ70. IMO the N6P does best the Technics in detail but when looking at the big picture, what each pair offers in SQ and features in the case of the AZ70, as the N6p have no ambient, ANC etc,  plus other TWEs you have, the better detail isn't worth the money imo. Also, the n6p has an aggressive treble out of the box just like the AZ70 do. It settles down though. on the other hand, the N6P have APTX, each iem has full controls, meaning play-pause, track navigation and volume control which i love for books, podcasts etc when i just use 1.


Yeah, I do like that each bud has all controls on the N6Pro.


----------



## Tommy C

who's going to try these new kids on the block?
They are comically huge but I'm intrigued  
https://www.microsoft.com/en-ca/p/s...ec7b3c45e319822f7&activetab=pivot:overviewtab


----------



## Canabuc

CocaCola15 said:


> So the Oluv version from Earfun is a different sounding TW in-ear from the stock Free Pro offered by Fiil, but the latter gives you an app and EQ? Of course, one can always use their player app to EQ the sound of any in-ear, so there is that option. I use the 20-band EQ on the Kaiser Audio app when called for, listening to onboard source music. If I am streaming, then no EQ using the service I have, which is Amazon HD music. But that's fine. In any case, looking forward to Oluv's take on an already popular and inexpensive TW ear phone.


The Oluv edition is just a different tuning of the earfun free pro. That bud has no app or EQ.
Fiil t1pro is the real earbud that makes the bud for earfun.
The T1pro has an EQ. The advantage is it is saved to the buds so that you can use them in any device and the EQ settings stay. 
The advantage is you have your preferred EQ and not some guy from YouTube.


----------



## CocaCola15

Canabuc said:


> The Oluv edition is just a different tuning of the earfun free pro. That bud has no app or EQ.
> Fiil t1pro is the real earbud that makes the bud for earfun.
> The T1pro has an EQ. The advantage is it is saved to the buds so that you can use them in any device and the EQ settings stay.
> The advantage is you have your preferred EQ and not some guy from YouTube.


I guess I’ll see how it sounds OOB and if it needs a touch of EQ, I’ll use the Kaiser Audio app. Price was right.


----------



## Canabuc (Mar 13, 2021)

CocaCola15 said:


> I guess I’ll see how it sounds OOB and if it needs a touch of EQ, I’ll use the Kaiser Audio app. Price was right.


They are a great earbud punch way above their weight sound wise


----------



## erockg (Mar 13, 2021)

SilverEars said:


> Big issue: Not ANC.
> 
> I know, I know...


I got it, I don’t need it.  They block my wife and toddler at 6am or the middle of the night perfectly.  Then, wake me with an alarm when it’s time to get up.  But I’m sure they don’t work for everyone.


----------



## Canabuc

Love to hear from any Huawei freebuds pro users.
So far with a bit of EQ with wavelet to raise treble it sounds quite good. Not MT Good but close to the Sony just warmer but better low end. Wonder if anyone has so e EQ settings or wavelet profile to share.

I heard rumor that Huawei might add an EQ to their app. That would be great as that extra treble boost adds nice detail. Also soundstage surprisingly good too.

ANC really is brilliant. And for someone who has trouble getting earbuds to fit. These do with stock large tips for me. Would have thought stem style would be less secure in the ear. But these are 2nd most secure after the MT.


----------



## Mlaihk

2045pages......  Isn't it time to split this into separate threads or even its own group?


----------



## DigDub

Canabuc said:


> The Oluv edition is just a different tuning of the earfun free pro. That bud has no app or EQ.
> Fiil t1pro is the real earbud that makes the bud for earfun.
> The T1pro has an EQ. The advantage is it is saved to the buds so that you can use them in any device and the EQ settings stay.
> The advantage is you have your preferred EQ and not some guy from YouTube.


Agree wholeheartedly. Oluv is just another fixed tuning by a guy who tunes it to his own preference. The Fiil t1 pro offers way more customization options and track back option.


----------



## BigAund

Anybody got experience with the oppo enco x? Seem ok on paper, battery accepting, and apparently do lhdc too.


----------



## bronco1015

Tommy C said:


> who's going to try these new kids on the block?
> They are comically huge but I'm intrigued
> https://www.microsoft.com/en-ca/p/surface-earbuds/8R9CPQ146064/BVWB?OCID=AID2100846_SEM_4f8da41300b11ecec7b3c45e319822f7:G:s&ef_id=4f8da41300b11ecec7b3c45e319822f7:G:s&s_kwcid=AL!4249!10!79371094902466!4582970641649230&msclkid=4f8da41300b11ecec7b3c45e319822f7&activetab=pivotverviewtab


Lol. I have a pair in for review actually. Gonna open them up this afternoon.


----------



## Sebulr

I got my hands on a set of bomaker sifi 2s for £20 two weeks ago from an amazon sale and they sound really nice. Touch controls aren't my thing, but work OK, the eartips are made for mice, however so I tossed them in the bin. I had the hardest time getting a tip to fit in the case, as I normally use 14.5mm tips, I had to settle with large tennmak whirlwinds in the end, which just fit in the case, but leave a problematic fit for me. The battery life on the case is crap too, I get about two and half charges out of the case, but it is tiny, so I can live with it. 

They are quite a lot larger than the originals with a shallower fit, so why the tiny tips?


----------



## 543293

Canabuc said:


> The Oluv edition is just a different tuning of the earfun free pro. That bud has no app or EQ.
> Fiil t1pro is the real earbud that makes the bud for earfun.
> The T1pro has an EQ. The advantage is it is saved to the buds so that you can use them in any device and the EQ settings stay.
> The advantage is you have your preferred EQ and not some guy from YouTube.





DigDub said:


> Agree wholeheartedly. Oluv is just another fixed tuning by a guy who tunes it to his own preference. The Fiil t1 pro offers way more customization options and track back option.


Funny you should mention that.


----------



## Canabuc

Lorelock said:


> Funny you should mention that.


Ironic as he likely is getting paid for his name on those.


----------



## chinmie

Lorelock said:


> Funny you should mention that.



i personally not interested in the Oluv tuning, simply because of what El Jeffe said. it doesn't need a youtuber's insight to see that apparently.. even me as a regular viewer (and i doubt I'm the only one) can come to a conclusion that he's a bit one sided in opinions and trashes others that's not aligned with his.


----------



## Kuli

chinmie said:


> i personally not interested in the Oluv tuning, simply because of what El Jeffe said. it doesn't need a youtuber's insight to see that apparently.. even me as a regular viewer (and i doubt I'm the only one) can come to a conclusion that he's a bit one sided in opinions and trashes others that's not aligned with his.


He has strong opinions and is blunt about them but he tries to back them up with relevant sound samples which differentiates him from other reviewers. I've learned a lot from him.


----------



## Canabuc

Kuli said:


> He has strong opinions and is blunt about them but he tries to back them up with relevant sound samples which differentiates him from other reviewers. I've learned a lot from him.


Truthfully I have no dog in that fight. They are great sounding earbuds especially for the price. Maybe his tuning is very good.

I am just a believer that my ears and hearing differ from yours or his. This is why I prefer to EQ them myself. I am over 50 years old and likely have different shaped ears than him as well. His tuning even if good may not fit what I need.

With the T1 pro I can adjust the sound signature for what I like.
Chances are he will have lowered the bass pushed up the mids to get a more neutral sound as the EFP see tuned bass heavier than stock Fiil T1PRO


----------



## Canabuc

Does make me wonder if.all those good soundcore reviews though did have some paid advertising but in.
I literally bought the liberty or 2 pro and returned an hour later.
They felt like crap in my ears despite trying all the tip sizes. Controls are very limited and the sound was nothing special. Yes one can EQ them which I like but I hated the form factor and lack of controls.
The  stems were so long they run against my cheeks causing  microphones especially if mics are active.

My freebuds pro I just got have a shorter stem and much better fit and comfort. They only lack an equalizer making me have to use wavelet. But even stock EQ is nice. Wavelet just adds that treble detail I want.


----------



## Canabuc

chortya said:


> I’ll try to consolidate my thoughts and experience around the following TWS/Neckband IEMs that I currently have and was able to test side-by-side: *Cambridge Audio Melomania Touch, Oppo Enco X, Huawei Freebuds Pro, Sennheiser Momentum True Wireless 2, Sony WI-1000XM2.*
> 
> As already mentioned in one of my previous posts I am using Sony IER-Z1R with Shanling MW200 as my reference, but I find them not mobile enough to fully compete with the rest of the headphones I have. And due to huge price difference, it’s not fair to really compare them. But they still give that nice reference point. I also must admit that I am a fanboy of Sony Z1R sound signature.
> 
> ...



Just got the freebuds pro. Am using Samsung phone. With wavelet installed I adjusted treble and mids. Found it added detail and improved the soundstage.

Would love to hear more about your experiences with these buds. Have only had mine for 1 day.

Features are excellent. Wish they had their own EQ as wavelet really improved sound.
Also found volume wise not as loud as Sony or Cambridge but a bit louder than the Sennheiser. Is this your experience?
I was amazed at how secure they were as I usually associated stem style with loose fit.


----------



## Canabuc

greenkomodo1 said:


> Thanks I will look into them!
> 
> I found this one a site but its not the canal which hurts, just the outside cartilidge on my actual ear.
> "For people with small ears, it can often be quite difficult to find a pair of earbuds that fit comfortably, if at all. Many in-ears have fairly large earbuds that push pressure and push on different parts of the ear, causing fatigue and pain over time"
> ...


What didn't you like about the pro vs the 3?


----------



## Caipirina

SilverEars said:


> I hope one day we get a very tiny ANC TWS that's on the level of full-sized XM3 level of ANC with at least 10 hrs of continuous battery life.  I'm starting to see how useful it would be for sleep.  I'm a very light sleeper, so this would be very practical.
> 
> This is all I ask for these days. lol
> 
> Sized like this.  One day....


The size is IMHO not the issue ... there are already some Chinese cheapos that small .. BUT, connectivity is the issue, the deeper those mini pills burrow into the ear canal, the worse the reception gets ... until they make strides in that area ... 
Hence the Bose sleep buds are not 'live' BT buds ... 

But yeah, one can dream!


----------



## WhiteFox01

I think its a bit too soon still, but within a few years its definitely possible.


----------



## CocaCola15

Canabuc said:


> Does make me wonder if.all those good soundcore reviews though did have some paid advertising but in.
> I literally bought the liberty or 2 pro and returned an hour later.
> They felt like crap in my ears despite trying all the tip sizes. Controls are very limited and the sound was nothing special. Yes one can EQ them which I like but I hated the form factor and lack of controls.
> The  stems were so long they run against my cheeks causing  microphones especially if mics are active.
> ...


I had the Liberty 2 Pro and sold them; could not EQ them to meet my sound preference, even with all the celebrity EQs, an EQ in the app, etc. With the Oluv version, I just figured that I could use a pair of BT in-ears at relatively low cost that track more along the neutral sound of, say, an Ety, and he did that fine-tuning for me. He's certainly set up for it! Haha.

I use BT phones almost strictly outside the home with onboard tracks so if I need to EQ the Oluv model, so be it. I am not stuck on having a native app for my BT phones. For over a year, I really enjoyed the Melomania 1, which had no app (the new M1+, which I bought and love, does have one) and never a problem. I guess paying $10 more for a pre-tuned, specific version of the Earfun phones seem sort of silly, but not a deal breaker for me.


----------



## Canabuc

CocaCola15 said:


> I had the Liberty 2 Pro and sold them; could not EQ them to meet my sound preference, even with all the celebrity EQs, an EQ in the app, etc. With the Oluv version, I just figured that I could use a pair of BT in-ears at relatively low cost that track more along the neutral sound of, say, an Ety, and he did that fine-tuning for me. He's certainly set up for it! Haha.
> 
> I use BT phones almost strictly outside the home with onboard tracks so if I need to EQ the Oluv model, so be it. I am not stuck on having a native app for my BT phones. For over a year, I really enjoyed the Melomania 1, which had no app (the new M1+, which I bought and love, does have one) and never a problem. I guess paying $10 more for a pre-tuned, specific version of the Earfun phones seem sort of silly, but not a deal breaker for me.


Again price is a value even at 10$ more for those buds. As they say, they punch above their weight class.


----------



## SilverEars

erockg said:


> I got it, I don’t need it.  They block my wife and toddler at 6am or the middle of the night perfectly.  Then, wake me with and


It's not ANC though.  I don't hear anything with my xm3 full sized.  That's what I want, not some noise masking solution.


Caipirina said:


> The size is IMHO not the issue ... there are already some Chinese cheapos that small .. BUT, connectivity is the issue, the deeper those mini pills burrow into the ear canal, the worse the reception gets ... until they make strides in that area ...
> Hence the Bose sleep buds are not 'live' BT buds ...
> 
> But yeah, one can dream!


If I only need it for sleep, no need for connectivity


----------



## WhiteFox01

I hope wireless iems going forward have better codecs too.


----------



## Canabuc

SilverEars said:


> It's not ANC though.  I don't hear anything with my xm3 full sized.  That's what I want, not some noise masking solution.
> 
> If I only need it for sleep, no need for connectivity



Earbud ANC on sleep not good option as the mics will contact surfaces and cause noise rather than suppress.


----------



## erockg

SilverEars said:


> It's not ANC though.  I don't hear anything with my xm3 full sized.  That's what I want, not some noise masking solution.
> 
> If I only need it for sleep, no need for connectivity


I completely understood what you were saying.  I've done a ton of research for this type of bud.  Way too many sleep issues here.  I thought no ANC would be a problem for me, but those Bose Sleepbuds actually work very very well in my case.  You must be an even lighter sleeper than me!  

Quiet On is the only company that makes what you're looking for, sleep buds with ANC.  That said, I've fallen asleep with my AirPods pro in before... no issues, but after a while they do hurt my ears because I'm a side sleeper.


----------



## Windmolinos

Guys, I bought the MelomaniaTouch... The sound is amazing, 10/10, but like I was expecting, I can't wear them more than 15 minutes without pain in my ears ( is not a problem of the MT, it happens to me with all this type of earphones)
So I was thinking of buying better something like oppo enco or airpods, but I don't find good reviews here in this post.
Could you please recommend me some?
Thanks!


----------



## erockg

Caipirina said:


> The size is IMHO not the issue ... there are already some Chinese cheapos that small .. BUT, connectivity is the issue, the deeper those mini pills burrow into the ear canal, the worse the reception gets ... until they make strides in that area ...
> Hence the Bose sleep buds are not 'live' BT buds ...
> 
> But yeah, one can dream!


I used to sleep with the Earin M-2's all the time.  Worked really well with Comply foam tips to block noise.  I'd play some Rain sounds and the battery would die around 4 hours in.  But they did hurt after a few nights from sleeping on my side.  Like you've said, battery size.  One day...


----------



## miserybeforethemusic (Mar 14, 2021)

Found another premium tip, if anybody wants to take a look at these. Should be familiar to some here, but the thermo-forming aspect of them is pretty nifty:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08TWFM2K3/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_fabc_33A2HBQKTQ645HQ9J4FA




Edit: FINALLY found the "TWS" variant of the Complys. Not my bag (way too much work for insertion/removal imo), but might be yours:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07PY4PSBT/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_fabc_B7KDZVM7GJZBNENG3EW3


----------



## Canabuc

Windmolinos said:


> Guys, I bought the MelomaniaTouch... The sound is amazing, 10/10, but like I was expecting, I can't wear them more than 15 minutes without pain in my ears ( is not a problem of the MT, it happens to me with all this type of earphones)
> So I was thinking of buying better something like oppo enco or airpods, but I don't find good reviews here in this post.
> Could you please recommend me some?
> Thanks!



I had issues with the MT as well but using different tips and going to smallest wings got rid of it.

I can't get the Oppo in Canada but in that style if ndroid the Huawei is a nice choice with fantastic ANC.


----------



## pk4425

chinmie said:


> i personally not interested in the Oluv tuning, simply because of what El Jeffe said. it doesn't need a youtuber's insight to see that apparently.. even me as a regular viewer (and i doubt I'm the only one) can come to a conclusion that he's a bit one sided in opinions and trashes others that's not aligned with his.


Cut Oluv some slack. He's Austrian -- they may be among the most blunt people on Earth. Totally unafraid to tell it like it is or how they see it is. I'm serious.


----------



## pk4425

Canabuc said:


> Does make me wonder if.all those good soundcore reviews though did have some paid advertising but in.
> I literally bought the liberty or 2 pro and returned an hour later.
> They felt like crap in my ears despite trying all the tip sizes. Controls are very limited and the sound was nothing special. Yes one can EQ them which I like but I hated the form factor and lack of controls.
> The  stems were so long they run against my cheeks causing  microphones especially if mics are active.
> ...


Agree. The Liberty Air 2 Pro -- or whatever the $150 TWS ANC buds made by Soundcore are called -- were AWFUL to my ears. Artificial, dry, no musicality. They were the bad rock supergroup -- Chickenfoot, maybe? -- of TWS earbuds. Wonderfully tuned individual elements that sounded like crap when blended. It's almost like Anker had engineers create ideal bass, mids and treble in a vacuum and never combine them into a sound signature.

Different than the ones I think you tested, as the Liberty 2 Air Pro's don't have stems. But yeah, I couldn't stand them despite the gushing reviews in forums and on YouTube.

Different strokes, as they say ...


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

pk4425 said:


> Agree. The Liberty Air 2 Pro -- or whatever the $150 TWS ANC buds made by Soundcore are called -- were AWFUL to my ears. Artificial, dry, no musicality. They were the bad rock supergroup -- Chickenfoot, maybe? -- of TWS earbuds. Wonderfully tuned individual elements that sounded like crap when blended. It's almost like Anker had engineers create ideal bass, mids and treble in a vacuum and never combine them into a sound signature.
> 
> Different than the ones I think you tested, as the Liberty 2 Air Pro's don't have stems. But yeah, I couldn't stand them despite the gushing reviews in forums and on YouTube.
> 
> Different strokes, as they say ...


Think you're confusing the Liberty 2 Pro (stemless, dual-driver) and the Liberty Air 2 Pro (with stem, single driver).

I'll agree that the tuning isn't exceptional, but I was happier with the whole package than I was just the overall sound quality. Before prices started dropping left and right, I thought they were a pretty solid value, but there's just too much competition at the $120-150 range. In a vacuum, they're really not that bad.

Regarding stem comfort, I found these things have a very specific way they like to go in. They are earbuds first, so forget about deep insertion. Also, I found that they seem to fit better when the stem is rotated a little more upward (if that makes sense); don't try to have them point straight downward.

Had to sacrifice a SpinFit tip for it (ripped the core), but managed to get the CP360 onto the NFPs. Really had no choice since fitment with the stock tips is really finicky. Too shallow and you might as well be listening to horns, too deep and the driver flex is unbearable. With the Medium CP360, though, even the sibilance issues are toned down. Might still run through the gamut of aftermarket tips on them, but I'm happy with this pairing for now. Extremely balanced sound all around, but very revealing of poor recordings. "Organic Hard Drive" on Lucid Planet's _Lucid Planet II _demonstrates this extremely easily. I don't think you're going to be able to listen to bootleg albums on YouTube and Soundcloud mixes without hearing compression artifacts left and right.


----------



## chinmie

pk4425 said:


> Cut Oluv some slack. He's Austrian -- they may be among the most blunt people on Earth. Totally unafraid to tell it like it is or how they see it is. I'm serious.



if he's naturally blunt, then he also doesn't need or care any slack from anyone by nature   

audio is a very subjective hobby. we can like certain sound signature, certain fitting, esthetics, degree of features (especially in TWS world). there will be things that we would not like that turns out to be loved by others... nothing wrong with that. bashing others by calling their ears damaged, having subpar taste, crappy system, a shill, etc, are straight up unnecessary. 

or maybe it's just because I'm asian


----------



## pk4425

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Think you're confusing the Liberty 2 Pro (stemless, dual-driver) and the Liberty Air 2 Pro (with stem, single driver).
> 
> I'll agree that the tuning isn't exceptional, but I was happier with the whole package than I was just the overall sound quality. Before prices started dropping left and right, I thought they were a pretty solid value, but there's just too much competition at the $120-150 range. In a vacuum, they're really not that bad.
> 
> ...


Yep, you're right. I tried the Liberty 2 Pro, not the Air. Thanks.


----------



## 543293

chinmie said:


> if he's naturally blunt, then he also doesn't need or care any slack from anyone by nature
> 
> audio is a very subjective hobby. we can like certain sound signature, certain fitting, esthetics, degree of features (especially in TWS world). there will be things that we would not like that turns out to be loved by others... nothing wrong with that. bashing others by calling their ears damaged, having subpar taste, crappy system, a shill, etc, are straight up unnecessary.
> 
> or maybe it's just because I'm asian


Hoo, boy. If only you knew what other reviewers like scarbir had to say about him.


----------



## FYLegend (Mar 15, 2021)

Canabuc said:


> Truthfully I have no dog in that fight. They are great sounding earbuds especially for the price. Maybe his tuning is very good.
> 
> I am just a believer that my ears and hearing differ from yours or his. This is why I prefer to EQ them myself. I am over 50 years old and likely have different shaped ears than him as well. His tuning even if good may not fit what I need.
> 
> ...


Well there's two ways of doing things, one is that something gets a pass or fail if it's not to your liking, the other is to write to to a casual audience and think everything is fine. Most reviewers do the latter so it's nice that someone assesses them more bluntly and not conform to how things should sound due to something like Harman target. My issue with rating numbers is they don't always add up to my critical feedback mention something like "these sometimes have bluetooth dropouts" or "I don't like the eartip quality".

Here's an extreme example of Pass or Fail  https://www.head-fi.org/members/vaziyetu.405048/#showcase-reviews



Canabuc said:


> Ironic as he likely is getting paid for his name on those.


It goes both ways as most of the YouTubers regularly get products for free. They don't bother buying products. El Jefe doesn't bother trying Windows 10 Bluetooth because it's "too cumbersome".


----------



## Windmolinos

Canabuc said:


> I had issues with the MT as well but using different tips and going to smallest wings got rid of it.
> 
> I can't get the Oppo in Canada but in that style if ndroid the Huawei is a nice choice with fantastic ANC.


Thanks!
Do you mean the FreeBuds3?
I couldn't find any review focused on the sound... and to be honest Huawei is not a brand well known for this... 
Have you seen any good review?
Thanks!


----------



## Caipirina

pk4425 said:


> Cut Oluv some slack. He's Austrian -- they may be among the most blunt people on Earth. Totally unafraid to tell it like it is or how they see it is. I'm serious.


Finally I understand which / what Oluv you guys are talking about    Somehow YT stopped recommending his vids in my algo .. then again, not much for those YT reviews anymore anyways .. they are kinda all the same and take way too long listing all the obvious specs  

But I recall him ranting over the ... what was it, the L2P ? revealing how much Anker would pay him for each sold unit and such


----------



## Caipirina

Question regarding the Fiil T1 pro, even after reading reviews and watching videos, I am not 100% sure which side activates what (because Chinese Audio) ... just from my own perception I want to say that LEFT long presses toggles through ANC on / off, while RIGHT toggles through ambient on / off ... 
Too bad I can't record the little voices in my head (I mean the ones coming from the buds), I would not mind learning word by word what those Chinese ladies are saying exactly, as I have other Chinese buds. 

In general I's love to record and compare those voice prompts ... maybe have an awards show    I recall calling one the most 'snotty', but already forgot which one that was ... some are really friendly and uplifting, other are just annoying  

What's your favorite?


----------



## DigDub (Mar 15, 2021)

Caipirina said:


> Question regarding the Fiil T1 pro, even after reading reviews and watching videos, I am not 100% sure which side activates what (because Chinese Audio) ... just from my own perception I want to say that LEFT long presses toggles through ANC on / off, while RIGHT toggles through ambient on / off ...
> Too bad I can't record the little voices in my head (I mean the ones coming from the buds), I would not mind learning word by word what those Chinese ladies are saying exactly, as I have other Chinese buds.
> 
> In general I's love to record and compare those voice prompts ... maybe have an awards show    I recall calling one the most 'snotty', but already forgot which one that was ... some are really friendly and uplifting, other are just annoying
> ...








Have you enabled both ANC and ambient mode options on both sides of the earbuds? I can't remember which side controls what function in the default state as I have enabled all the functions.

The voice prompts meanings in order  if all controls under the MAF section are enabled (from ANC and ambient off state):

Jiang zao kai - ANC on
Jian ting kai - ambient mode on
MAF guan - ANC and ambient off


----------



## Caipirina (Mar 15, 2021)

DigDub said:


> Have you enabled both ANC and ambient mode options on both sides of the earbuds? I can't remember which side controls what function in the default state as I have enabled all the functions.
> 
> The voice prompts meanings in order  if all controls under the MAF section are enabled (from ANC and ambient off state):
> 
> ...


Thanks for taking the time to respond! 
I should have mentioned that I am on iOS and do NOT have the app.

trying to get along your transcribed Chinese I get on the left:
Jiang zao kai (with uplifting high beeps)
Jiang zao guan (with lower beeps)
Right:
Jian ting kai
Jian ting Guan
Same beeps. So I guess this confirms my initial feeling. Only that because I am app-less, this is mapped to 2 sides for me.
Time to study Chinese


----------



## DigDub

Caipirina said:


> Thanks for taking the time to respond!
> I should have mentioned that I am on iOS and do NOT have the app.
> 
> trying to get along your transcribed Chinese I get on the left:
> ...


I guess you have it correct. 👍

Jiang zao - reduce noise, also known as noise reduction
Jian ting - listen simultaneously, also known as ambient mode
Kai - switch on
Guan - switch off

Actually the Chinese on the buds are not very descriptive even for someone who understands Chinese. I guess the technology is still relatively new and the Chinese words are newly coined and not commonly heard.


----------



## Caipirina

DigDub said:


> I guess you have it correct. 👍
> 
> Jiang zao - reduce noise, also known as noise reduction
> Jian ting - listen simultaneously, also known as ambient mode
> ...


Understandable .. and fascinating ... I know the sound of 'connected' (but no idea how to transcribe) ... and my funniest example is that one of my Sabbat X12 pairs is bilingual, one side speaks English, the other one Chinese ... I know I could possibly rectify that with a hard reset ... but this is fun & unique
Don't get me started on those bluetooth commends in German


----------



## Canabuc

Windmolinos said:


> Thanks!
> Do you mean the FreeBuds3?
> I couldn't find any review focused on the sound... and to be honest Huawei is not a brand well known for this...
> Have you seen any good review?
> Thanks!



Freebuds pro.
Amazing ANC, transparency, secure fit. Wireless charging. Good sound. Full controls. Multi pairing. 
So far it and the Jabras are the only 2 buds I would consider as all arounders. Meaning that they tick every Buc as far as features and functionalities.


----------



## Canabuc

Caipirina said:


> Question regarding the Fiil T1 pro, even after reading reviews and watching videos, I am not 100% sure which side activates what (because Chinese Audio) ... just from my own perception I want to say that LEFT long presses toggles through ANC on / off, while RIGHT toggles through ambient on / off ...
> Too bad I can't record the little voices in my head (I mean the ones coming from the buds), I would not mind learning word by word what those Chinese ladies are saying exactly, as I have other Chinese buds.
> 
> In general I's love to record and compare those voice prompts ... maybe have an awards show    I recall calling one the most 'snotty', but already forgot which one that was ... some are really friendly and uplifting, other are just annoying
> ...



You can customize this. Something that sound like chin chin Thai is ambient ....


----------



## Luke Skywalker

Rizorith said:


> I'm wondering what this thread's take is on the galaxy pro's? I saw a bit about them a few months back and then nothing. I got a pair to go with my android phone (pixel 3) and PC, and I kinda like them, but they are a bit fatiguing to my ears and like many others don't fit well. The sound itself is good though, although sometimes the treble can be a bit too much. I had the sony wf-xsm3's for a while but didn't like the sound as much and had connection issues.
> 
> I'll likely return, but I'm unsure what to try next. I'm no audiophile, but the biggest single attribute I want is good sound, assuming they meet some minimum requirements. For me this is, in no particular order:
> 
> ...


I’d go with the KEF mu3’s.  I‘m listening to classical right now and they sound incredible


----------



## Luke Skywalker

vladzakhar said:


> Yes, you are right. I didn't try KEF and Nuarl N10pro. They not available in US yet. Tried Gemini, they are good. But all of them has single dynamic driver, if I remember correctly,  and don't have this sweet treble extension, resolution and sound stage which armature drivers of Falcons can reproduce. Or maybe, I am just the big fan of hybrids.


Actually I’m in the US and I bought the KEFs right off their website. Fast shipping and astonishing sound


----------



## Caipirina

Canabuc said:


> You can customize this. Something that sound like chin chin Thai is ambient ....


Thank you ... I forgot to mention in my question that I am on iOS, hence I do NOT have the app and cannot customize anything  

@DigDub and I kinda agreed on a glossary / sounds like like this 
Jiang zao - reduce noise, also known as noise reduction
Jian ting - listen simultaneously, also known as ambient mode
Kai - switch on
Guan - switch off

so, chin chin thai / jian ting kai ... same same ... i guess


----------



## Luke Skywalker

tiagopinto said:


> Care to elaborate on this Neutron solution, please? It’s a paid app, right? Worth it? Are there alternatives?
> Thanks!


I mainly use Neutron to stream FLAC and DSDs from my PC to my iPhone. Then I plug my iFI xDSD it my phone and use my JH Lola wired IEMs. The sound is absolutely incredible


----------



## Luke Skywalker

miserybeforethemusic said:


> @dj24 think this might suit your needs:
> https://store.hiby.com/products/hiby-r3-pro
> 
> BT 5.0 and 2-way LDAC, plus an Android OS should at least give you the ability to have modern-ish Bluetooth and whatever app you like for gapless, though HiBy makes a great app on its own and that's the one that's cooked into the DAP. There's also a slightly more premium model with dual Sabre ES9218P DACs for those who are firmly in team ESS. Think it runs you an extra $10, so they're not asking too much, in my opinion.
> ...


I have the R6 Pro and although it sounds amazing with JH Lola and my Audeze LCD-2, I’ve had a lot of issues pairing Bluetooth devices (still haven’t gotten my KEFs to pair with it...)

I also have a hard time with the wifi connection. I can be sitting in one spot in the house with jh IPhone steaming tidal perfectly but the R6 drops constantly 

it is nice though to be able to pop a 1 TB SD card in


----------



## Luke Skywalker

Thesonofkrypton said:


> It'a all relative to be honest.  You might think Sony XM3 are trash but what are you basing it on - comparisons to wired iems? Of course, no competition.  Compared to other wireless earphones, I stand by my opinion that they're the best out there.  It's a compromise with truly wireless earphones and one shouldn't expect a wired earphone experience - not now anyway, maybe one day.


I have to concur on the XM3s. I’ve tried a number of different tips and a every imaginable EQ setting and they’re my least favorite. great ANC and for phone calls though to be fair 

jabra 65 elite active, Bose NC, NUARL N6P (second favorite), and the KEFs which blow all the others away


----------



## Luke Skywalker

PixelSquish said:


> Random question for all TW's users. I have had this issue now with all the TW buds I've tried, so I know it's not an issue by brand. I'm trying to figure out if it's a Tidal issue or Android issue. Basically I'm listening to a playlist on Tidal. I can pause or switch to transparent mode say, then unpause and it continues where it lefts off. But sometimes when I try to restart the music from a pause, the playlist starts with some random track and I lose my place in the playlist. Does this happen to anyone else? And with what OS and with what music playing app?


When I add a Tidal song to my favorites (iOS), it goes to the next track. Extremely annoying


----------



## TK33

Luke Skywalker said:


> Actually I’m in the US and I bought the KEFs right off their website. Fast shipping and astonishing sound


They have been backordered for a while now.


----------



## Canabuc

Anybody have the issue where they find their true Wireless earbud does not sound as loud as they want? I've noticed this was an issue for the Sennheiser and to a lesser but still true extend for the Huawei freebuds pro. However the Sony and the Melomania touch or significantly louder by comparison. I have an Android Samsung phone and decided to look up how to fix this on YouTube and discovered that by disabling the absolute volume it has a two-fold effect. the first effect is it decouples the Bluetooth volume on your phone and your earbuds such that they now work independently of one another after rebooting the phone. what this means is that you can have the volume on your buds at 100% but the phone's bluetooth volume still at 50 and so you're absolute output would still only be 50%. However if you then set your media volume on the phone to maximum and just control the volume with the earbuds it gets a significantly louder than when the two are synced together without the absolute volume disable button turned on in developer settings.

well I know this is a little less convenient because now it means when you change the volume it is not changing everything at the same time, it does give that extra volume if you need it to your earbuds.

I would estimate that the earbuds sound at least 10 to 15% louder after making this change in the developer settings. So for any of you who feel you don't have enough volume with your earbuds on Android this could be something worth trying.

On another on another note the multiparing worked very well today on my iPad and phone having both paired and swapping between the two very seamlessly. this is a feature I've only seen on the Jabra and the Huawei and for those of you who are looking for that feature I highly recommend either one of those earbuds.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

TK33 said:


> They have been backordered for a while now.


They certainly have, but you can get on a preorder while KEF catches up on stock if you know where to look:
https://www.crutchfield.com/p_991MU3TW/KEF-Mu3.html


----------



## TK33

miserybeforethemusic said:


> They certainly have, but you can get on a preorder while KEF catches up on stock if you know where to look:
> https://www.crutchfield.com/p_991MU3TW/KEF-Mu3.html


Thanks. Yes, I saw that Crutchfield had it as a "pre order" when I did a Google search before.  Was just noting they are no longer readily available in the US and have not been for a while as the previous post that I responded to seemed to suggest.


----------



## pk4425

Canabuc said:


> Anybody have the issue where they find their true Wireless earbud does not sound as loud as they want? I've noticed this was an issue for the Sennheiser and to a lesser but still true extend for the Huawei freebuds pro. However the Sony and the Melomania touch or significantly louder by comparison. I have an Android Samsung phone and decided to look up how to fix this on YouTube and discovered that by disabling the absolute volume it has a two-fold effect. the first effect is it decouples the Bluetooth volume on your phone and your earbuds such that they now work independently of one another after rebooting the phone. what this means is that you can have the volume on your buds at 100% but the phone's bluetooth volume still at 50 and so you're absolute output would still only be 50%. However if you then set your media volume on the phone to maximum and just control the volume with the earbuds it gets a significantly louder than when the two are synced together without the absolute volume disable button turned on in developer settings.
> 
> well I know this is a little less convenient because now it means when you change the volume it is not changing everything at the same time, it does give that extra volume if you need it to your earbuds.
> 
> ...


The Melomania 1s don't get that loud, either. Not a bad thing for me, as I'm 55 with some hearing loss and serious tinnitus. But yeah, the Melomania 1's will have trouble cutting through a lot of street noise.

Your fix is aces for those on Android!


----------



## Canabuc

pk4425 said:


> The Melomania 1s don't get that loud, either. Not a bad thing for me, as I'm 55 with some hearing loss and serious tinnitus. But yeah, the Melomania 1's will have trouble cutting through a lot of street noise.
> 
> Your fix is aces for those on Android!



If you're on Android you can activate the developer mode and then toggle on the disable absolute volume in the settings for developer settings. After that you can reboot the phone. You now will have separate volume controls for the earbud and your Bluetooth so you can then actually get it louder than previously. I just did this for my Huawei free buds Pro and they are noticeably louder.


----------



## Canabuc

TK33 said:


> Thanks. Yes, I saw that Crutchfield had it as a "pre order" when I did a Google search before.  Was just noting they are no longer readily available in the US and have not been for a while as the previous post that I responded to seemed to suggest.


I wonder how many of these they actually sold that they're on backordered. Clearly people have had orders and received them so it can't be a pre-order. I wonder if they also had some manufacturing issues the way the DeVialet Gemini did and to a lesser degree the Melomania touch. And maybe they're trying to have everything tuned better before a more massive release.


----------



## TK33

Canabuc said:


> I wonder how many of these they actually sold that they're on backordered. Clearly people have had orders and received them so it can't be a pre-order. I wonder if they also had some manufacturing issues the way the DeVialet Gemini did and to a lesser degree the Melomania touch. And maybe they're trying to have everything tuned better before a more massive release.


I think KEF just has limited supply here in the US.  Same issue with their speakers...heard people were having trouble finding LS50 Metas when they first came out and they are still out of stock at many places (including KEF Direct and Crutchfield). Don't think I saw anyone complaining too much about the mu3 so didn't think there was anything to indicate that they pulled the mu3 like the others you mentioned.  Seems like a solid product and I would have picked one up too if I were still commuting (and who knows when that will start again).


----------



## Canabuc

TK33 said:


> I think KEF just has limited supply here in the US.  Same issue with their speakers...heard people were having trouble finding LS50 Metas when they first came out and they are still out of stock at many places (including KEF Direct and Crutchfield). Don't think I saw anyone complaining too much about the mu3 so didn't think there was anything to indicate that they pulled the mu3 like the others you mentioned.  Seems like a solid product and I would have picked one up too if I were still commuting (and who knows when that will start again).


Just seemed odd there are almost 0 reviews online or videos on YouTube. They were for sale very briefly and now on backorder/preorder.


----------



## alpha421

FYI: As a KEF fan, I pre-ordered the mu3.  However, I canceled my order after I was told from KEF USA that it wouldn't be in stock until sometime in May.  Sounds like a production/manufacturing issue.


----------



## Luke Skywalker

TK33 said:


> They have been backordered for a while now.


Man that sucks... I took a chance ordering them right away before I read any reviews, mainly based on their reputation with speakers and stuff. I was very much hoping they weren't all buggy

The only minor thing is that occasionally when i remove them from the case, they don't connect automatically to my iphone. If I just set them back in the case without even closing it, then when I lift them back out that connects just fine

I also wonder how firmware update will be handled since there isn't an app…

I just wore them at the gym and it's so awesome to just single press the left button for ambient mode without having to take them out if some clown interrupts my workout. Press again for "ANC off" then once more for blissful silence.  I can't stand buds that have a whole bunch of buttons and complicated controls where you have to tap them a certain number of times, slide your finger around and all that crap


----------



## Luke Skywalker

I ordered mine Feb 19 and chose the free shipping option. They were in my hand Feb 25 in USA


----------



## CocaCola15

pk4425 said:


> The Melomania 1s don't get that loud, either. Not a bad thing for me, as I'm 55 with some hearing loss and serious tinnitus. But yeah, the Melomania 1's will have trouble cutting through a lot of street noise.
> 
> Your fix is aces for those on Android!


Chiming in with the loud thing. I have the Melomania 1 and the Melomania 1+ (recently arrived). When I use the latter with my LG V30 (strictly used as a DAP, no service), I have to hold down the right phone button to boost the sound and it gets VERY loud. I can then adjust the volume using the volume switch on the LG. Not the case with my iPhone 8+, which is plenty loud from the jump using either Melomanias.

I have the same issue with a pair of Samsung Level On BT on-ear phones. I have to swipe up on the right side to get the volume loud, then adjust down with my phone (either Android or iOS). Weird.

I just stumbled on both situations because I was unhappy with the inability to get them loud enough. And I am not talking dangerously loud either.

My Android "disable absolute volume" in developer settings was already toggled to off.


----------



## Canabuc

CocaCola15 said:


> Chiming in with the loud thing. I have the Melomania 1 and the Melomania 1+ (recently arrived). When I use the latter with my LG V30 (strictly used as a DAP, no service), I have to hold down the right phone button to boost the sound and it gets VERY loud. I can then adjust the volume using the volume switch on the LG. Not the case with my iPhone 8+, which is plenty loud from the jump using either Melomanias.
> 
> I have the same issue with a pair of Samsung Level On BT on-ear phones. I have to swipe up on the right side to get the volume loud, then adjust down with my phone (either Android or iOS). Weird.
> 
> ...


No you toggle it to on. Then reboot phone. Then you can set the buds volume and phone volume separately. This somehow allows much louder volume the. When the buds and phone volume control are synced.


----------



## CocaCola15

Canabuc said:


> No you toggle it to on. Then reboot phone. Then you can set the buds volume and phone volume separately. This somehow allows much louder volume the. When the buds and phone volume control are synced.


Thanks!


----------



## dj24

Canabuc said:


> No you toggle it to on. Then reboot phone. Then you can set the buds volume and phone volume separately. This somehow allows much louder volume the. When the buds and phone volume control are synced.


Does this method also work with buds that don't have their own independent volume control as well?  I'm on Android.


----------



## Canabuc

dj24 said:


> Does this method also work with buds that don't have their own independent volume control as well?  I'm on Android.


Yes. Normally the buds are coupled to the phone and raising volume on but raises phone volume and vice versa.

Toggling this on decouples the 2.
Now if say your phone volume for Bluetooth is set at 50% your buds can lower and raise their independent volume but only to the max of 50% of the phone's. So if you set phone's Bluetooth to 100. Now you can control your buds from. 0 to 100 and for some reason this gets louder than when coupled.
Seems when volume is synced it is also limited.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic (Mar 15, 2021)

Nobles are on the break-in bed today, but I continue to be happy with them. Really curious to see how the Final tips change the overall fit and sound sig. Definitely don't regret swapping out for the SpinFits. I've just come to realize that driver flex is a _massive _issue with the Noble Falcon Pros if they're inserted with any residual pressure (positive or negative) inside the ear. If you've never experienced driver flex, it can be as benign as sounding like crinkling metal every time you breathe in and out to as major as massive driver distortion, leading to potential driver failure. Since there's 2 BAs and a DD inside of each of these shells, it can produce all sorts of interesting changes in the NFP's sound if left unchecked. If you got a pair and everything sounds hollow or sucked out, chances are you either have a phase issue or, in my case, one of the drivers is being mechanically bound (that sounds so bad to even type out, let alone think about).

At this point, the most effective technique for me has been to pull on my ear to widen the canal and just kinda rest the IEM down instead of pushing it in. Once I release my ear, the canal contracts and makes for an effective seal. Just doesn't produce the most confident fit; I may go back to the stock tips and fiddle around with this some more, but these really could have used a vent of some sort. The pressure control issues are just too much and you're going to have to decide if you're okay with that. Personally, I think I'll manage; I have plenty of other pairs I can use if I need to move around more.

Totally forgot about it, but I somehow must have ordered a set of Elite 75T Actives in Navy Blue last week and not remembered it. Put them on the charger; will give impressions sometime tomorrow, most likely.

Oh and for the first battery test of the NFPs, I've used the same test case as previous and left Hear Through off. Currently sitting at 35% after about 5 hours of continuous play. That's pretty respectable, especially considering how much extra juice you can get out of the case.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

Just arrived. Makes more sense now why there's virtually no domestic availability; they haven't even made domestic packaging. Which one should I open first?


----------



## FYLegend

Canabuc said:


> No you toggle it to on. Then reboot phone. Then you can set the buds volume and phone volume separately. This somehow allows much louder volume the. When the buds and phone volume control are synced.


Well it seems this varies a lot between Android device. Samsung used to have a "media volume sync" which was a quick toggle that worked similarly but since it was removed some users have complained that disable absolute volume made the volume lower than what MVS did.  It's especially annoying on earbuds without built-in volume control.  I have a 3.5mm Bluetooth receiver that sounds badly distorted unless I disable absolute volume. My Astrotec S60 used to be very loud when I toggled MVS off and on but for whatever reason it got greyed out for this specific device after my phone got a firmware update and is now barely loud enough on my phone. The Earfun Free (Olulz edition) was just fine for me but other users experienced low volume on other Android devices which some solved with absolute volume but others could not.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic (Mar 15, 2021)

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Just arrived. Makes more sense now why there's virtually no domestic availability; they haven't even made domestic packaging. Which one should I open first?


Spoiler alert: get these if you have the MT. Just do it.

Two words: cleaner midrange. Yes, it gets even cleaner. I took a couple photos of the tips (installed) with no qualifiers. Can you figure out which one is the Final and which one is the stock MT tip?


----------



## dj24

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Nobles are on the break-in bed today, but I continue to be happy with them. Really curious to see how the Final tips change the overall fit and sound sig. Definitely don't regret swapping out for the SpinFits. I've just come to realize that driver flex is a _massive _issue with the Noble Falcon Pros if they're inserted with any residual pressure (positive or negative) inside the ear. If you've never experienced driver flex, it can be as benign as sounding like crinkling metal every time you breathe in and out to as major as massive driver distortion, leading to potential driver failure. Since there's 2 BAs and a DD inside of each of these shells, it can produce all sorts of interesting changes in the NFP's sound if left unchecked. If you got a pair and everything sounds hollow or sucked out, chances are you either have a phase issue or, in my case, one of the drivers is being mechanically bound (that sounds so bad to even type out, let alone think about).
> 
> At this point, the most effective technique for me has been to pull on my ear to widen the canal and just kinda rest the IEM down instead of pushing it in. Once I release my ear, the canal contracts and makes for an effective seal. Just doesn't produce the most confident fit; I may go back to the stock tips and fiddle around with this some more, but these really could have used a vent of some sort. The pressure control issues are just too much and you're going to have to decide if you're okay with that. Personally, I think I'll manage; I have plenty of other pairs I can use if I need to move around more.
> 
> ...


I have the 75t Active's currently and can't wait to hear your impressions.  I've always felt Jabra refines and tweaks their tuning with their Active sets.  I feel the 75t Active's bass is leaner and tighter compared to the bloated mess of the regular 75t's when I had the latter earlier last year.  I think they listened to the feedback.  Iam quite eager how the 75 Active t compares to your 85t once you compare them against each other as I plan on getting the 85t Active when they release them later this year.  That is as long as they keep the IPX7 rating


----------



## bladefd

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Spoiler alert: get these if you have the MT. Just do it.
> 
> Two words: cleaner midrange. Yes, it gets even cleaner. I took a couple photos of the tips (installed) with no qualifiers. Can you figure out which one is the Final and which one is the stock MT tip?


How are bass and highs? I read that final type e apparently amplifies the bass.


----------



## Canabuc

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Spoiler alert: get these if you have the MT. Just do it.
> 
> Two words: cleaner midrange. Yes, it gets even cleaner. I took a couple photos of the tips (installed) with no qualifiers. Can you figure out which one is the Final and which one is the stock MT tip?


Well if you have any leftovers I'll buy them. But between cost and shipping time it's not really option for me as I would need a medium and a large I believe.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic (Mar 15, 2021)

bladefd said:


> How are bass and highs? I read that final type e apparently amplifies the bass.


Bass is cleaned up, but the impact also seems to have been boosted as well. Don't hear much of an effect in the treble, but the upper midrange seems to have come out of its shell and I feel like stage width has improved as well.

This varies wildly from TWS to TWS, though. This is especially true with the Technics, in which case I lost what midbass that set did have, regardless of which size tip I used. They're a match made in heaven for the 75t Active, and seem to take a head-in-the-subwoofer level of bass down enough to play along with the rest of the instruments. Still wouldn't try to run Samuel Barber's _Adagio for Strings _on them, but they do help quite a bit...and I haven't done any EQ adjustments yet.


Canabuc said:


> Well if you have any leftovers I'll buy them. But between cost and shipping time it's not really option for me as I would need a medium and a large I believe.


I'll go through the rest of the pairs to see what I'd need to stock up on, but good news is those MTMT guys deliver.


----------



## DJ XtAzY (Mar 15, 2021)

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Just arrived. Makes more sense now why there's virtually no domestic availability; they haven't even made domestic packaging. Which one should I open first?


Do you have a link on where you purchased these? And do the sound change as you move your head and neck around? It's a constant issue with the stock tips.

And look like they finally have the release notes on the v1.3.1 firmware:

*Updates:*


Improved reliability of auto power-on when taking earphones out of charging case.
Improved reliability of auto power-off when putting earphones into charging case.
Added “Waiting to pair” voice prompt on removal from charging case after a system reset or when not previously paired.
Added battery power indication when only one earphone is powered on.
Improve call quality to increase sound volume in the receiving device and reduce ambient noise from the earphones.
Improved volume synchronisation on One plus phones.
Improve stereo drift whilst the volume is synchronizing and adjusting at low volume on Huawei phones.
Disable auto power-off when transparency is on and playing audio is paused.
System reset no longer resets the voice prompt language to English.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic (Mar 15, 2021)

Some people might not be happy to hear this, but the Jabra Elite Active 75t (EA75t, for short... it's catchy) is turning out to be everything I wished the 85t were in some respects; enough so that I'm going to say this:

Depending on what you listen to, the EA75t is a _better_ buy than the 85t, even if price wasn't a factor.

Yes, the 85t has better ANC, but even being able to compare ANC between these two is awesome, considering it was done by software update (mentioned before, but worth mentioning again)! It doesn't compare to pairs that were developed around the tech, like the 85t or Technics AZ70W, but they do really darn well around the house.

For me, it's not even about the ANC, though. The EA75t just fits better. There's something oddly ergonomic about the way they fit in my ears. In a sense, they're how I wished the JBLs fit (yet unfortunately don't). They don't protrude like crazy, either, but definitely enough for the mic to pick up my voice, even masked and in the middle of a busy supermarket (wife never complained...win). Once they're in, they don't budge. At all. I even tested it with some Static-X and, while the room won't stop spinning and I regret going for that second glass of scotch first, the Jabras haven't moved.

It's bloated to the gills with bass in stock form, though. Luckily, I have the Final Type E TWS that just came in today to swap out and I'm so glad I did. Granted, you're still going to hate these on classical, jazz, binaural beats, or anything massively complex. The Jabra traded sophistication for grunt in the form of legitimate sub-bass, whether it's an amount you like or not and, while the Final tips are good, they don't make magic happen. Good news is you'll be all smiles for the stuff that you'd normally want to crank to 11. Big Bottoms slams on these. Just sayin'.

Get the 85t if you're going to want to listen to more refined material. The EA75t's energy doesn't translate over to these genres well. I don't know many people who are breaking PRs while jamming out to sick arias, but do whatever floats your boat.



DJ XtAzY said:


> Do you have a link on where you purchased these? And do the sound change as you move your head and neck around? It's a constant issue with the stock tips.
> 
> And look like they finally have the release notes on the v1.3.1 firmware:
> 
> ...


Sure. Here you go:
https://www.mtmtaudio.com/products/...ooth-earphone-2-pairs#judgeme_product_reviews

They also have some other fun ones you could try out, like the SednaEarFit that I mentioned earlier. As for whether I hear any sonic changes when I move my head, I don't, but I also don't think that was ever a problem for me on the stock tips.

Great find on the release notes and, yes, I can confirm the British lady saying "waiting to pair" gets me one step closer to a certain one of DankPod's speakers and I'm all for that.


----------



## Canabuc

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Some people might not be happy to hear this, but the Jabra Elite Active 75t (EA75t, for short... it's catchy) is turning out to be everything I wished the 85t were in some respects; enough so that I'm going to say this:
> 
> Depending on what you listen to, the EA75t is a _better_ buy than the 85t, even if price wasn't a factor.
> 
> ...


I much preferred the fit of the 65t to the 85t. However  the soundstage was narrow. Bass was bloated but with great sub bass. Also the treble is much stronger but harsh. 85t is opposite in the high end and wider soundstage. 
75t are the perfect workout buds but not for pure listening.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

Canabuc said:


> I much preferred the fit of the 65t to the 85t. However  the soundstage was narrow. Bass was bloated but with great sub bass. Also the treble is much stronger but harsh. 85t is opposite in the high end and wider soundstage.
> 75t are the perfect workout buds but not for pure listening.


They're still the first Jabras I've ever claimed enjoying listening to. I consider those high marks.


----------



## Canabuc

miserybeforethemusic said:


> They're still the first Jabras I've ever claimed enjoying listening to. I consider those high marks.


My journey for the perfect buds started with the 75t actives. For casual poobedm listening and working out they were a great all around earbud.
But I also had the buds + and Liberty 2 pro at the time and decided to go down the rabbit hole and find the perfect earbud.

Well it doesn't yet exist. I think if I had 3 earbuds that I can mix into 1 I could find that unicorn.

So for now I have decided to try to go to 2 buds to cover all my needs.

Right now The MT are there to fill the need for sound quality with a secure fit that make it great for listening to music or working out. 

The 2nd set right now are for more practical use. So ancand wauloty ambient modes and great call quality to use in more work type setting or commute/ travel, etc.
So far in that category the  options would be the 85t, freebuds pro, XM3, Bose, Technics/Panasonic, MTW2, 
JBL,Liberty air 2 pro, galaxy buds pro....

Of all those I have only not tried the Bose as the size outs me off.
Some on that list I had hoped would be that perfect bud but:

JBL could not get a secure fit for workouts. Button control was literally hit or miss and limited. Ambient was great but ANC was useless.

85t was so close. Functionality was great with 2 exceptions. The multipairing would lead to audio dropouts on my iPad when 2 devices connected. Sound for me even with ton of time was just not exciting. It was a sif lol the vocals and instruments played the right sound but they didn't add up to something that engaged me the way JBL or MT do. And also for me even with largest tips I always was adjusting the buds as they would move around in the ear.
They would be an excellent choice as an all arounders with great ANC however and perfect for professional use.

MTW2 were disappointing. Soundstage and treble detail was amazing. Volume too low and lower midrange was muffle din several genres. ANC was below average and case was on the big side. Call quality was terrible with many robotic sounding artifacts. Battery life was below average as well.

Galaxy buds pro were very nice. Great details d sound though treble was a bit too prominent. ANC when I could get a secure fit was very good though not top class. Ambient amazing. But could not for life of me get proper seal and fit was actually painful beyond 20 minutes. ( Us Amazon has so e 3rd party tips out. If those ever come here would try these again)

XM3 might be a good choice for their excellent ANC and very good sound. Case and buds are bulky but I can get good fit and seal. Call wuity is only ok and can't control everything from the buds. Still at their current on sale price they were nearly half the cost of the MTW2. Might still be a keeper.

Liberty air 2 pro lasted literally 2 hours at my house. Just hated the stems that were too long and rub against my face. In ear comfort was terrible and sound was not great as could get a good seal despite 80 included eartips.

Technics have very good ANC. They have a detailed sound but without sufficient bass for me and thus some music just sounded bland while others,female vocals or pianos were great. Boy did I have a lot of errant button presses trying to adjust them as I could never get a fit that felt like they wouldn't fall out. Felt like tumors were growing out of my ears. Did not like the case either. Despite the aluminum trim it felt cheap and flimsy and the buds never seated prophet on the first go. To me they should never sell for more than 150$.

Now onto the freebuds pro. ANC is best I've heard. Ambient mode is great. The controls are all there including volume control. Has nice size case with Qi charging.
Despite the stem design has good fit and seal.
Only negatives which are minor so far are no IP rating like the Sony, though I have read in several places they say it is splash resistant and likely around ipx4.
Other issue was sound profile. There is no in built EQ and while the stock sound is very nice with great Bass, the treble is a bit rolled off and missing some detail similar to 85t. Volume was a bit lower than the Sony as well.
That said with wavelet I stalled I used the system wide graphic EQ and boosted the treble and got it to where I like it. Also the disable absolute volume control trick work around seems to have gotten me the missing volume should I need it. I ktially there as no app for iPhone bit there is now. Only issue is not having EQ on Apple though. I heard they might add EQ in software update. They really do support these. Since release in September there have been no less than 6 firmware updates.
If they had the MT sound my journey would be over. But they sound much better than I thought they would. With nice instruments separation and soundstage. Better in that regard than the 85t. And they sound more exciting to my ears than the 85t.
My ears still get a bit sore after listening for a when but new buds often do this and they are only 2 days old.
If I had to travel and take 1 pair it would likely be these as they hit all my needs and the call quality and multipairing are great.

Hope this post helps some people.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

Canabuc said:


> My journey for the perfect buds started with the 75t actives. For casual poobedm listening and working out they were a great all around earbud.
> But I also had the buds + and Liberty 2 pro at the time and decided to go down the rabbit hole and find the perfect earbud.
> 
> Well it doesn't yet exist. I think if I had 3 earbuds that I can mix into 1 I could find that unicorn.
> ...


I think the MT was an unexpected smash hit, once the wrinkles got ironed out. It's crazy how the more stuff I try, the more I just want to come back to the MTs for a little while longer. They don't care what you're listening on or to; they don't throw tantrums with poor-quality recordings. Even audio sync, while not perfect, is more than usable as a daily driver.

If you're casually lurking and asking yourself for a recommendation, I suggest you start here.


----------



## bladefd (Mar 16, 2021)

miserybeforethemusic said:


> I think the MT was an unexpected smash hit, once the wrinkles got ironed out. It's crazy how the more stuff I try, the more I just want to come back to the MTs for a little while longer. They don't care what you're listening on or to; they don't throw tantrums with poor-quality recordings. Even audio sync, while not perfect, is more than usable as a daily driver.
> 
> If you're casually lurking and asking yourself for a recommendation, I suggest you start here.


I think I might try final type e for tws. I am trying to get some improvement in mids, highs and soundstage. I realize it doesn't do much to the highs, but perhaps improvements to the mids & soundstage may be worth it.

I just wonder about sizing.

What final type e is almost equal in size to the MT oem large? On all other earbuds including az70/xm3 I was using medium but MT is a size large for some reason.


----------



## Windmolinos

Anyone has some references about the open ones Vivo Neo?


----------



## zeinharis

Apparently Xiaomi released a new TWS : Xiaomi Redmi AirDots 3 TWS Wireless Bluetooth 5.2 Earphone Hybrid Vocalism Mi True Wireless Headset CD-level Sound Quality - Blue  
https://www.gearbest.com/bluetooth-headphones/pp_3001459257154867.html?wid=2000001&lkid=78799124


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

bladefd said:


> I think I might try final type e for tws. I am trying to get some improvement in mids, highs and soundstage. I realize it doesn't do much to the highs, but perhaps improvements to the mids & soundstage may be worth it.
> 
> I just wonder about sizing.
> 
> What final type e is almost equal in size to the MT oem large? On all other earbuds including az70/xm3 I was using medium but MT is a size large for some reason.


Probably the Large. The material with the final tips is considerably softer, which might help it conform to the shape of your ears better. So far, I've found a use for each size (NFP seems to like the Small).


----------



## samandhi

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Probably the Large. The material with the final tips is considerably softer, which might help it conform to the shape of your ears better. So far, I've found a use for each size (NFP seems to like the Small).


That answers the question about the type of material used (is is like the regular tips). I would also assume that because they are made for TWS they fit into the (very picky) case on the MT?


----------



## miserybeforethemusic (Mar 16, 2021)

samandhi said:


> That answers the question about the type of material used (is is like the regular tips). I would also assume that because they are made for TWS they fit into the (very picky) case on the MT?


They're a little lower-profile than the stock MT buds (wider bore, flatter top, shorter sleeve), so you shouldn't have any fit issues with them. Come to think of it, I don't think there's a single case they haven't fit into as well as or better using the Final TWS tips than with the stock tips. One major caveat is that, due to the thinner core, these can be tricky to put on some of the wider-bore TWS sets out there. It took some work, but I have managed to fit them to both the NFPs and the Technics.

As for material, it's a really soft silicone with a core that has almost no thickness of its own. The inner bore itself looks rifled (if that makes sense), or with little grooves going from inside-out. I have had zero issues with itchy ears, even with a little sweat working on them. I took the MT/Final combo out for a walk to the convenience store last night. Even though I didn't have ANC, I couldn't hear any of the busy road traffic once volume got to 50%. No sonic changes from turning my head or walking briskly, either (don't judge me, it was cold).

It was probably a matter of meeting the price point, but I really think these are the tips that should have shipped with the MTs. Maybe it's just me; guess I'll see what other people think.


----------



## DeepSouth (Mar 16, 2021)

Is there a TOTL wireless model yet? I'm using apple earpod pro, and they're ok. I don't get the best seal, I'll pass the test, then fail the test, then wiggle them deeper and pass again. I'm not going to read through all 2051 pages, hoping for cliff notes.
I tried Louis Vuitton's version, I don't get a seal at all, so whatever it's rebranded from probably won't do so well. I'm using A18t at the gym, and it's not ideal with a 2.5 balanced cable.


----------



## samandhi

DeepSouth said:


> Is there a TOTL wireless model yet? I'm using apple earpod pro, and they're ok. I don't get the best seal, I'll pass the test, then fail the test, then wiggle them deeper and pass again. I'm not going to read through all 2051 pages, hoping for cliff notes.
> I tried Louis Vuitton's version, I don't get a seal at all, so whatever it's rebranded from probably won't do so well. I'm using A18t at the gym, and it's not ideal with a 2.5 balanced cable.


Really hard to give you a recommendation based on the information you have given about what you are looking for. Cambridge Audio Melomania Touch seems to be pretty popular atm. There are others that sound better, but don't have features. Fitment is an issue with others. There doesn't seem to be one BEST one yet. There are a lot that do some things very well, but others, not so well....... You might have to do a smidge of research to find what you are looking for.

I would start by sharing the type of sound signature you are looking for, then I'm sure there will be some good recommendations for you.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic (Mar 16, 2021)

samandhi said:


> Really hard to give you a recommendation based on the information you have given about what you are looking for. Cambridge Audio Melomania Touch seems to be pretty popular atm. There are others that sound better, but don't have features. Fitment is an issue with others. There doesn't seem to be one BEST one yet. There are a lot that do some things very well, but others, not so well....... You might have to do a smidge of research to find what you are looking for.
> 
> I would start by sharing the type of sound signature you are looking for, then I'm sure there will be some good recommendations for you.


They're not going to hold a candle to the 64Audios, though, so I hope he's ready to take a major step backwards in resolution in order to have that wireless convenience.

The TWS game, as it stands right now, is still heavily steeped in compromise. There have been a couple pairs that wowed me for how many of the boxes they can check given their price point, but I don't know if they're going to really fall within your sonic requirements. If it's purely a gym-based set, try to find pairs that favor a secure/comfortable fit; something like the Jabra Elite Active 75t (once you've swapped out the tips) or Ultimate Ears' UE FITS would be my suggested starting points, depending on which price to entry you're comfortable with.

The UEs will probably be the most CIEM-like, both in terms of relative fit and overall sound signature, even though they're only using a single dynamic driver. If you need a multi-driver setup, the options list gets narrower. Those choices include:

Noble Falcon Pro - 1 DD, 2 Knowles BAs per ear; battery life is good, fit is wonky and driver flex becomes a real issue if pressure across both sides isn't neutral. Since there's no vent to help with this, I don't know if I'd consider them a good gym pair
Status Between Pro - Can't speak on them any more than they're a multi-driver set like the Noble. I'll find out in April if they're worth anything
Galaxy Buds Pro - Can't speak on these either, though seems they're mostly favorable here. Based on the shape, I'm not sure how secure they'd be long-term
It'll also depend on what you're listening to, primarily. While I can advocate for the EA75t, it's only on a limited set of genres.

For what it's worth, by the way, coming in and saying you're going to ignore 2,000 pages of time and energy people spent already answering your questions in favor of being spoon-fed is really bad practice. Take a chunk at a time if you have to, read only the last 20 pages...do whatever, but don't be rude. Meh, it's water under the bridge


----------



## samandhi

miserybeforethemusic said:


> They're a little lower-profile than the stock MT buds (wider bore, flatter top, shorter sleeve), so you shouldn't have any fit issues with them. Come to think of it, I don't think there's a single case they haven't fit into as well as or better using the Final TWS tips than with the stock tips. *One major caveat is that, due to the thinner core, these can be tricky to put on some of the wider-bore TWS sets out there. It took some work, but I have managed to fit them to both the NFPs and the Technics.*
> 
> As for material, it's a really soft silicone with a core that has almost no thickness of its own. The inner bore itself looks rifled (if that makes sense), or with little grooves going from inside-out. I have had zero issues with itchy ears, even with a little sweat working on them. I took the MT/Final combo out for a walk to the convenience store last night. Even though I didn't have ANC, I couldn't hear any of the busy road traffic once volume got to 50%. No sonic changes from turning my head or walking briskly, either (don't judge me, it was cold).
> 
> It was probably a matter of meeting the price point, but I really think these are the tips that should have shipped with the MTs. Maybe it's just me; guess I'll see what other people think.


This is the issue I had with the regular type e also.... Thanks for sharing your impressions. Looks like ima' have to get some for myself...


----------



## DeepSouth

samandhi said:


> Really hard to give you a recommendation based on the information you have given about what you are looking for. Cambridge Audio Melomania Touch seems to be pretty popular atm. There are others that sound better, but don't have features. Fitment is an issue with others. There doesn't seem to be one BEST one yet. There are a lot that do some things very well, but others, not so well....... You might have to do a smidge of research to find what you are looking for.
> 
> I would start by sharing the type of sound signature you are looking for, then I'm sure there will be some good recommendations for you.


Good to know. I like JHA Layla and A18t. I like CF andromeda but it's a little too fatiguing, and I like the sure se846.   
The flimsy silicone eartips have fit issues. I have a wide yet flat/narrow ear canal. Foam tips do ok, not great. 
Bose's quiet comfort 15 or whatever the 3.5 plug in version with attached battery had a perfect fit in-ear, but the sound wasn't very clear. I wonder what the new bose sounds like. 
The airpod pro has a great sound for the convenience factor and price, but the bass/seal is too fickle, and both earpieces failed at different times under warranty due to a crackle sound. 
The cambridge appears to have the silicone that gives me fit issues. I'd go the snugz route, but I'd have to dismount every time I want to charge.


----------



## faithguy19

Looks like the 85ts can be had for $138 with promo code "tg694hffv" today.


----------



## tinyman392

DeepSouth said:


> Good to know. I like JHA Layla and A18t. I like CF andromeda but it's a little too fatiguing, and I like the sure se846.
> The flimsy silicone eartips have fit issues. I have a wide yet flat/narrow ear canal. Foam tips do ok, not great.
> Bose's quiet comfort 15 or whatever the 3.5 plug in version with attached battery had a perfect fit in-ear, but the sound wasn't very clear. I wonder what the new bose sounds like.
> *The airpod pro has a great sound for the convenience factor and price, but the bass/seal is too fickle, and both earpieces failed at different times under warranty due to a crackle sound.*
> The cambridge appears to have the silicone that gives me fit issues. I'd go the snugz route, but I'd have to dismount every time I want to charge.


Apple has apparently fixed this issue; AirPods Pro manufacturers after October 2020 should not have this issue begin.  The issue actually affected both ANC and bass performance on top of the audible crackles and clicks.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

samandhi said:


> This is the issue I had with the regular type e also.... Thanks for sharing your impressions. Looks like ima' have to get some for myself...


Might be a little easier since the stem is shorter, too. I've found the easiest way to get these (and the SpinFits) onto most sets is to invert the shroud first and use it as a gripping surface. Then I just walk them around the circumference until they're fully seated. Feels weird at first, but you'll get the hang of it.


faithguy19 said:


> Looks like the 85ts can be had for $138 with promo code "tg694hffv" today.


Think that's pretty close to what I paid as well. Is that from the Jabra's eBay refurb listings? So far, have gotten two sets that way without issue. You just don't get the retail box, so factor that into your decision. Then again, they didn't give me a retail box when I bought the Link 380 directly from their website, either.


----------



## faithguy19

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Think that's pretty close to what I paid as well. Is that from the Jabra's eBay refurb listings? So far, have gotten two sets that way without issue. You just don't get the retail box, so factor that into your decision. Then again, they didn't give me a retail box when I bought the Link 380 directly from their website, either.


Brand New. They are having a one day 40% off sale off all products today


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

Note to self, when looking for solutions to driver flex, do not consult Yahoo...yikes:

https://answers.yahoo.com/question/...-uyyxl8AkyiI_EBf313xavCeRhR-Om9ZO0eYnM6kcX4a8



faithguy19 said:


> Brand New. They are having a one day 40% off sale off all products today


Great deal, then! Remember for those looking: there are foam tips available for the 85t and the Elite Active 75t sound absolutely stellar with the Final TWS tips. Can't go wrong with either one for a good work-from-home set. Both sets support multi-pairing, which has made it very easy to bounce back and forth between workstations.


----------



## DeepSouth (Mar 16, 2021)

miserybeforethemusic said:


> They're not going to hold a candle to the 64Audios, though, so I hope he's ready to take a major step backwards in resolution in order to have that wireless convenience.
> 
> The TWS game, as it stands right now, is still heavily steeped in compromise. There have been a couple pairs that wowed me for how many of the boxes they can check given their price point, but I don't know if they're going to really fall within your sonic requirements. If it's purely a gym-based set, try to find pairs that favor a secure/comfortable fit; something like the Jabra Elite Active 75t (once you've swapped out the tips) or Ultimate Ears' UE FITS would be my suggested starting points, depending on which price to entry you're comfortable with.
> 
> ...


2017 info is outdated. I don't mean to be rude, and before I bought he SP1000 is did read the entire 2000 page megathread.
The problem with 2000 page megathreads are while they are a perfect snapshot in time, they're outdated with (now) false information. The SP1000 is no longer the best, the SP2000 is within AK. Many of these pages are going to be talking about firmware issues which are now updated. It's hard to read the entire journal of a product, but trust me I will and have read all 2,000 pages (and all the privately reviewed from each user like twister) when I'm inspired.
The main reason I don't want to read 2017 material is we'd be talking about a lot of discontinued models, and problems on current models that are fixed by firmware, or now on a next gen. Sorry if I came off too brash, I can see that I rubbed some people here the wrong way and I didn't mean to be rude. Sorry about that. I did follow this thread in 2018 which is where I learned about LV's version, and I came to the conclusion that in-ear wired versions where far better for me, this is before my requirements changed from the best portable sound in world, to the best gym-friendly sounding wireless. I also read the last 5 pages, and realized this isn't a TOTL wireless thread, but quite a universal all encompassing thread about wireless.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic (Mar 16, 2021)

DeepSouth said:


> 2017 info is outdated. I don't mean to be rude, and before I bought he SP1000 is did read the entire 2000 page megathread.
> The problem with 2000 page megathreads are while they are a perfect snapshot in time, they're outdated with (now) false information. The SP1000 is no longer the best, the SP2000 is within AK. Many of these pages are going to be talking about firmware issues which are now updated. It's hard to read the entire journal of a product, but trust me I will and have read all 2,000 pages (and all the privately reviewed from each user like twister) when I'm inspired.
> The main reason I don't want to read 2017 material is we'd be talking about a lot of discontinued models, and problems on current models that are fixed by firmware, or now on a next gen. Sorry if I came off too brash, I can see that I rubbed some people here the wrong way and I didn't mean to be rude. Sorry about that. I did follow this thread in 2018 which is where I learned about LV's version, and I came to the conclusion that in-ear wired versions where far better for me, this is before my requirements changed from the best portable sound in world, to the best gym-friendly sounding wireless. I also read the last 5 pages, and realized this isn't a TOTL wireless thread, but quite a universal all encompassing thread about wireless.


No worries, bud. I understand it's a lot to work through, which is why I suggested only going back about 20 pages (which will only take you back a week) to get the basic gestalt.

As for it not being a TOTL-dedicated thread, those are still pretty few and far between at the moment. A couple of us high-rollers are taking chances with the ones that do come up for sale, though. The Noble Falcon Pro were the first to come to mind, followed by the KEF Mu3 and the upcoming B&W Pi5 and Pi7 (which may end up just being pretty lifestyle buds, but they're certainly going to be the most expensive available). Devialet's still plagued with problems, which takes the Gemini out of contention (and out of stock on most sites). Honestly, you might be better off looking for a BT 2-pin adapter for your a18t. Something like TRN's BT20 would start you off at the budget end, but Fiio's UTWS3 might be more up your alley and allow you to continue using what you already enjoy.


----------



## DJ XtAzY

Maybe it's time to have each TWS model in its own thread.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

DJ XtAzY said:


> Maybe it's time to have each TWS model in its own thread.


If anybody starts one (or more), I'd appreciate a mention in them so I know where to look.


----------



## erockg

faithguy19 said:


> Brand New. They are having a one day 40% off sale off all products today


I got this email too.  Ugh.  My finger is on the buy button as I type, for the 85T's that I had once.  Price is just too damn good.


----------



## erockg

miserybeforethemusic said:


> They're not going to hold a candle to the 64Audios, though, so I hope he's ready to take a major step backwards in resolution in order to have that wireless convenience.
> 
> The TWS game, as it stands right now, is still heavily steeped in compromise. There have been a couple pairs that wowed me for how many of the boxes they can check given their price point, but I don't know if they're going to really fall within your sonic requirements. If it's purely a gym-based set, try to find pairs that favor a secure/comfortable fit; something like the Jabra Elite Active 75t (once you've swapped out the tips) or Ultimate Ears' UE FITS would be my suggested starting points, depending on which price to entry you're comfortable with.
> 
> ...


For anyone who is interested, on UE's site, the UE Fits are $249 with free Wonderboom.  There is also a coupon code out there for 15% off.  Not sure if you can post that kind of code here but you should be able to find if via Google.  I just got the UE Fits and a  Wonderboom 2 (which I'll prob flip on eBay) for $232 all in.


----------



## davidcotton

Some bargains on amazon uk today.

Airpods pro £189, presumably because of the new models coming soon supposedly 

and

Amazon echo buds £59.00


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

erockg said:


> For anyone who is interested, on UE's site, the UE Fits are $249 with free Wonderboom.  There is also a coupon code out there for 15% off.  Not sure if you can post that kind of code here but you should be able to find if via Google.  I just got the UE Fits and a  Wonderboom 2 (which I'll prob flip on eBay) for $232 all in.


That's a really nice price. Hope the molding process goes well for you!


----------



## Canabuc

erockg said:


> I got this email too.  Ugh.  My finger is on the buy button as I type, for the 85T's that I had once.  Price is just too damn good.


Debating it too. My only hesitation is that if you return you have to pay for shipping but otherwise a great deal.

I am really loving the sound in the freebuds pro though. Having a bug with multipoint involving PC.
If I am watching video on oc and phone rings I can answer in buds. When I go back to PC the audio isn't playing through them even with video playing. I can toggle between speaker and buds and audio come back but not best. Not sure if it's a PC issue or buds issue as this doesn't happen between iPad and phone with them and it beats the audio dropouts the 85t gave me on the iPad when was connected to both.
Right now Costco has freebuds pro for 219$ canadian or about 168$. So about 30$ more than the Jabra. I'm not sure what to do.


----------



## erockg

Canabuc said:


> Debating it too. My only hesitation is that if you return you have to pay for shipping but otherwise a great deal.
> 
> I am really loving the sound in the freebuds pro though. Having a bug with multipoint involving PC.
> If I am watching video on oc and phone rings I can answer in buds. When I go back to PC the audio isn't playing through them even with video playing. I can toggle between speaker and buds and audio come back but not best. Not sure if it's a PC issue or buds issue as this doesn't happen between iPad and phone with them and it beats the audio dropouts the 85t gave me on the iPad when was connected to both.
> Right now Costco has freebuds pro for 219$ canadian or about 168$. So about 30$ more than the Jabra. I'm not sure what to do.


I bit the bullet and bought the 85T


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

erockg said:


> I bit the bullet and bought the 85T


Any idea what size foams you need? I still have leftover kit from my order, depending on the size.


----------



## TK33

DeepSouth said:


> 2017 info is outdated. I don't mean to be rude, and before I bought he SP1000 is did read the entire 2000 page megathread.
> The problem with 2000 page megathreads are while they are a perfect snapshot in time, they're outdated with (now) false information. The SP1000 is no longer the best, the SP2000 is within AK. Many of these pages are going to be talking about firmware issues which are now updated. It's hard to read the entire journal of a product, but trust me I will and have read all 2,000 pages (and all the privately reviewed from each user like twister) when I'm inspired.
> The main reason I don't want to read 2017 material is we'd be talking about a lot of discontinued models, and problems on current models that are fixed by firmware, or now on a next gen. Sorry if I came off too brash, I can see that I rubbed some people here the wrong way and I didn't mean to be rude. Sorry about that. I did follow this thread in 2018 which is where I learned about LV's version, and I came to the conclusion that in-ear wired versions where far better for me, this is before my requirements changed from the best portable sound in world, to the best gym-friendly sounding wireless. I also read the last 5 pages, and realized this isn't a TOTL wireless thread, but quite a universal all encompassing thread about wireless.



FYI - I am assuming the LV ones you are referring to are the M&D MW07.  Pretty sure someone posted the updated LV / M&D MW07 PLUS recently here.  Havent heard them myself but I believe they are just a rebrand of the MW07 PLUS, which came out in 2019.


----------



## erockg (Mar 16, 2021)

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Any idea what size foams you need? I still have leftover kit from my order, depending on the size.


I'm not sure.  I usually use the large that comes with the 85T, but the fit can be wonky.  What foam tips do you use?


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

erockg said:


> I'm not sure.  I usually use the large that comes with the 85T, but the fit can be wonky.  What foam tips do you use?


The Small have been the best performers for me so far; just the right size to be able to push in without needing to compress them first. If it's the Large you're after, I've got the vendor shipping me a replacement pair, so they'll be brand spankin' new for ya.

Just...be careful with installation. The inner core and foam on these are pretty fragile. Even trimmed, my fingernails sliced right through it.


----------



## erockg

miserybeforethemusic said:


> The Small have been the best performers for me so far; just the right size to be able to push in without needing to compress them first. If it's the Large you're after, I've got the vendor shipping me a replacement pair, so they'll be brand spankin' new for ya.
> 
> Just...be careful with installation. The inner core and foam on these are pretty fragile. Even trimmed, my fingernails sliced right through it.


Thanks man!


----------



## PixelSquish

The MT's have a quirky thing with volume. Every time I connect them to my phone and start up Tidal, the volume drops to 50%. With absolute volume off, that means you have to raise the volume of the buds, as the phone volume control is separated. If you have the volume controls turned off on the MT's because the touch controls are really oversensitive, that's annoying.

Also I realize these buds will go down in battery at slightly different rates, but yesterday one bud was 8% lower than the other bud. Not sure if that would correct itself with more listening time or perhaps even get worse. 

Such a great sounding bud though. But they got more firmware updates to work on.


----------



## Canabuc

My bad I rebooted the laptop and now the multipair works fine with the freebuds pro.
Decided I prefer the fit and sound of them to the Jabra.
So don't think I will bite the bullet as would be redundant as they both excel at same things.

From what I read though I think they are only 2 buds where the tips can interchange due to same size oval shape.

Misodiko has foam tips that work on both.

I gave the Jabra a month trial once before and between the sound cutouts on my iPad  and not loving the sound I'm not sure I should go for them again but am conflicted as would love to do side by side with the Huawei. Maybe they are as good and would be cheaper by about 30to 40$


----------



## bladefd (Mar 16, 2021)

PixelSquish said:


> The MT's have a quirky thing with volume. Every time I connect them to my phone and start up Tidal, the volume drops to 50%. With absolute volume off, that means you have to raise the volume of the buds, as the phone volume control is separated. If you have the volume controls turned off on the MT's because the touch controls are really oversensitive, that's annoying.
> 
> *Also I realize these buds will go down in battery at slightly different rates, but yesterday one bud was 8% lower than the other bud. Not sure if that would correct itself with more listening time or perhaps even get worse.*
> 
> Such a great sounding bud though. But they got more firmware updates to work on.


That is normal. The master bud uses slightly more battery because it connects to the phone and relays data to other bud at same time. If the difference in battery gets too much between the buds, the master bud switches buds. It switches master bud for me often.

Some newer phones have TWS-mode though so they apparently can connect separately to each bud. I have Google Pixel 3, but unfortunately, Google has not implemented TWS-mode in firmware update even though the Pixel phone chip supports it.

I can't help with the volume issue though. I use absolute volume so it's same for me on buds & phone. I didn't actually know it was possible to have different volumes for different connected devices. Do you prefer having different volume for different devices?


----------



## Canabuc

PixelSquish said:


> The MT's have a quirky thing with volume. Every time I connect them to my phone and start up Tidal, the volume drops to 50%. With absolute volume off, that means you have to raise the volume of the buds, as the phone volume control is separated. If you have the volume controls turned off on the MT's because the touch controls are really oversensitive, that's annoying.
> 
> Also I realize these buds will go down in battery at slightly different rates, but yesterday one bud was 8% lower than the other bud. Not sure if that would correct itself with more listening time or perhaps even get worse.
> 
> Such a great sounding bud though. But they got more firmware updates to work on.


 battery difference can't really be corrected much in firmware. The technology is such that while the buds are connected most of the time they are acting in a master and slave fashion however unlike the Jabra earbuds the master and slave can reverse sides. Only once there is a significant enough difference between the two sides will it then switch sides to then even out the battery drain difference. I would think anything under 15% would be considered within tolerable limits. As 8% is not a huge difference.


----------



## erockg

PixelSquish said:


> The MT's have a quirky thing with volume. Every time I connect them to my phone and start up Tidal, the volume drops to 50%. With absolute volume off, that means you have to raise the volume of the buds, as the phone volume control is separated. If you have the volume controls turned off on the MT's because the touch controls are really oversensitive, that's annoying.
> 
> Also I realize these buds will go down in battery at slightly different rates, but yesterday one bud was 8% lower than the other bud. Not sure if that would correct itself with more listening time or perhaps even get worse.
> 
> Such a great sounding bud though. But they got more firmware updates to work on.


The volume issue happens for me with the Melomania 1+ on an iPhone.  Every time I put them in the case to charge, then open to reuse them, the volume is back at 50%.  Annoying.  No other buds I own do this.


----------



## DeepSouth

TK33 said:


> FYI - I am assuming the LV ones you are referring to are the M&D MW07.  Pretty sure someone posted the updated LV / M&D MW07 PLUS recently here.  Havent heard them myself but I believe they are just a rebrand of the MW07 PLUS, which came out in 2019.


Yes, those are the ones. The seal isn't good for my problem ears, and the accessories for fit look identical to MW07. I bought them for Mrs. DeepSouth for xmas.


----------



## PixelSquish

erockg said:


> The volume issue happens for me with the Melomania 1+ on an iPhone.  Every time I put them in the case to charge, then open to reuse them, the volume is back at 50%.  Annoying.  No other buds I own do this.



It's definitely a weird quirk. The MTW2, JBL Club Pro + or Technics buds don't do this ever. The MT do it every time. It's not a dealbreaker it's just a bit of a nuisance, especially since I have the volume controls disabled on the MT because the touch controls are overly sensitive. They really are a fun sounding pair of buds.


----------



## Canabuc

Not sure why freebuds pro don't get more love. Maybe Huawei hate but they really are great.
Sound is dynamic but a bit warm. Soundstage was surprisingly great as was separation. Tiny tweak at sub bass and treble end in wavelet and the sound really comes alive. Anyone who can EQ these and they are definitely great sounding and fully featured. Multipair is amazing and the ANC is as good or better than the Sony wf-1000xm3.


----------



## TK33

DeepSouth said:


> Yes, those are the ones. The seal isn't good for my problem ears, and the accessories for fit look identical to MW07. I bought them for Mrs. DeepSouth for xmas.


Have you tried different tips? I use Spinfits on my MW07 Go and found them way better than the stock tips.  You will see alot of discussion here about tip rolling if you look through the thread (even the last few days).  For me personally, I have found that sometimes different tips (or even sizes) work better for me for different true wireless earbuds/IEMs.


----------



## Canabuc

Am I the only one that doesn't like spinfits? They feel flimsy and crinkly in my ear and have yet to get a better fit with them....
I got strange ears I guess


----------



## Womaz

miserybeforethemusic said:


> They're not going to hold a candle to the 64Audios, though, so I hope he's ready to take a major step backwards in resolution in order to have that wireless convenience.
> 
> The TWS game, as it stands right now, is still heavily steeped in compromise. There have been a couple pairs that wowed me for how many of the boxes they can check given their price point, but I don't know if they're going to really fall within your sonic requirements. If it's purely a gym-based set, try to find pairs that favor a secure/comfortable fit; something like the Jabra Elite Active 75t (once you've swapped out the tips) or Ultimate Ears' UE FITS would be my suggested starting points, depending on which price to entry you're comfortable with.
> 
> ...


I think this is a great post for anyone browsing this particular thread as I did before I bought.
I believe there is still a big difference between wired and TW, so a simple answer to the thread question about is TW there yet? My findings are no they are not. There is still a sacrifice for the convenience of wireless. You have to accept a drop in sound quality.
What I would also say is it depends what you want them for. Mine is for walking or maybe a fitness session so sound quality can be compromised here as its not critical listening for me. I wont ever use my Cambridge MT to just listen to music so for me they are very adequate. I also must add that a decent EQ can also get you closer to the sound you want. For me on the move I have realised I prefer more thumping bass and I have adjusted accordingly.


----------



## tinyman392

Womaz said:


> I think this is a great post for anyone browsing this particular thread as I did before I bought.
> I believe there is still a big difference between wired and TW, so a simple answer to the thread question about is TW there yet? My findings are no they are not. There is still a sacrifice for the convenience of wireless. You have to accept a drop in sound quality.
> What I would also say is it depends what you want them for. Mine is for walking or maybe a fitness session so sound quality can be compromised here as its not critical listening for me. I wont ever use my Cambridge MT to just listen to music so for me they are very adequate. I also must add that a decent EQ can also get you closer to the sound you want. For me on the move I have realised I prefer more thumping bass and I have adjusted accordingly.


Kind of disagree here. They won’t beat a dedicated DAC/amp designed for portable use. But will easily match the quality you can get from one of the included Lightning adapters Apple provides.

A lot of your dedicated IEMs can be adapted to TWS. The Fiio adapter actually is very good. I didn’t have much luck with the TRN as it seemed to create a strong bass body but sacrificed details throughout. Both were connected to my Audeze Euclid.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

tinyman392 said:


> They won’t beat a dedicated DAC/amp designed for portable use. But will easily match the quality you can get from one of the included Lightning adapters Apple provides.


Exactly how I feel on the matter as well. Most of the $150+ dynamic-only TWS, at least in my opinion, aren't that sonically different from the vast majority of DD-only wired headsets out there. At least, in my opinion, the TWS market still has plenty of value given its sound quality and potential feature sets. Doesn't mean they're always in the same product, but they're there.

Also, in full disclosure, I'm tabling the Nobles for now. I just can't seem to find the right fit for these without causing the drivers to bind up, so instead of being perpetually frustrated, I'm just moving on to another set. I might reattempt further down the road with foam tips, but I know that'll have an effect on the sound sig. Did ask the question in the dedicated product thread, too, but guess my question isn't important enough for them to answer...especially concerning because this is the second Noble product I've bought that has had some sort of quirk that needed to be looked into and the second one I seem to not get an answer for. Don't think I'm willing to wait around for a third strike, so unfortunately, I'm going to have to shoot it down in contention until I can share some answers and positive experiences. To be honest, it's a bit of a Devialet-level of letdown for me.

Good news is the new UE tips should arrive today, so I will be able to reevaluate those a little more fairly.

So maybe I'll just leave it up to everybody here. Is there a particular pair you'd like to see me do a little more of a deep-dive on?


----------



## tinyman392

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Exactly how I feel on the matter as well. Most of the $150+ dynamic-only TWS, at least in my opinion, aren't that sonically different from the vast majority of DD-only wired headsets out there. At least, in my opinion, the TWS market still has plenty of value given its sound quality and potential feature sets. Doesn't mean they're always in the same product, but they're there.
> 
> Also, in full disclosure, I'm tabling the Nobles for now. I just can't seem to find the right fit for these without causing the drivers to bind up, so instead of being perpetually frustrated, I'm just moving on to another set. I might reattempt further down the road with foam tips, but I know that'll have an effect on the sound sig. Did ask the question in the dedicated product thread, too, but guess my question isn't important enough for them to answer...especially concerning because this is the second Noble product I've bought that has had some sort of quirk that needed to be looked into and the second one I seem to not get an answer for. Don't think I'm willing to wait around for a third strike, so unfortunately, I'm going to have to shoot it down in contention until I can share some answers and positive experiences. To be honest, it's a bit of a Devialet-level of letdown for me.
> 
> ...


To be honest, all tips tend to change sound signature.  A lot of things end up influencing it...  The material, subclasses of material (thickness/type of silicone, density of foam, etc.), nozzle size, etc.  Even with the Euclid, the included SpinFit will darken the sound quite a bit over the other included silicone tips (which helps the overall signature of the headphones).  Comply was also included with those which would darken them quite a bit.  I don't have the Noble Falcon Pro, just the Falcon, I found that SpinFits did help them, as did these generic dual-flange tips I found.  By they do have an issue with driver flex with them too.  The HiFiMan TWS800 I have is another IEM with major driver flex issues unfortunately as well.  

Hope the new UE tips help out.  Did you go up in size or did the fit fail the first time around?


----------



## Canabuc

Cansomeone explain driver flex?
If the housing of the earbud is solid plastic how is it that the driver inside can flexform how it is inserted?


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

tinyman392 said:


> To be honest, all tips tend to change sound signature.  A lot of things end up influencing it...  The material, subclasses of material (thickness/type of silicone, density of foam, etc.), nozzle size, etc.  Even with the Euclid, the included SpinFit will darken the sound quite a bit over the other included silicone tips (which helps the overall signature of the headphones).  Comply was also included with those which would darken them quite a bit.  I don't have the Noble Falcon Pro, just the Falcon, I found that SpinFits did help them, as did these generic dual-flange tips I found.  By they do have an issue with driver flex with them too.  The HiFiMan TWS800 I have is another IEM with major driver flex issues unfortunately as well.
> 
> Hope the new UE tips help out.  Did you go up in size or did the fit fail the first time around?


Thanks for the tip-rolling advice. I'll have to give it another go with the SpinFits in a day or two and see if that doesn't help. With the stock tips or Finals, though, it's practically impossible to get fit right the first time because of those pesky drivers. Good to know I'm not the only one experiencing this on a pair of high-buck TWS.

I hope the new UE tips work out as well. Looks like they are sending a larger size, which was probably based on the photos I sent in. The biggest problem I had with them was that I could feel one of the rough edges for the driver shell through the rubbery bits.


Canabuc said:


> Cansomeone explain driver flex?
> If the housing of the earbud is solid plastic how is it that the driver inside can flexform how it is inserted?


Mentioned it earlier, but driver flex is a mechanical movement of the drivers inside the shell without the introduction of an electrical current. Basically, the air pressure inside your ear forces the driver into an extended position and it has to continue overcoming that air pressure the whole time it's operating. Sometimes it just sounds like metal crinkling when you put them on, but in extreme cases (like the ones I'm encountering), it can result in a full mechanical binding of the driver...which means no sound will come out. Continued use with driver flex can result in driver failure, but is usually avoidable as long as you don't keep pushing on it.

You definitely don't want that sort of thing happening in a multi-driver arrangement. Does all sorts of weird things to the sound signature.


----------



## tinyman392

Canabuc said:


> Cansomeone explain driver flex?
> If the housing of the earbud is solid plastic how is it that the driver inside can flexform how it is inserted?


When you insert the headphones into your ear, you're essentially compressing the air in your ear.  If this force exerted by this compression is higher than the resistance of the spring of the driver, then the driver will flex back.  This can end up with the driver producing no sound or having big influences on the way the driver sounds.  Porting the housing either on the front side or rear side can help equalize the air pressure.  There are also ways of inserting the IEM into your ear that can help it as well.  For example, pulling the top of your ear up while pulling the IEM body down to break the seal (let all the pressure out) then resealing it.  With smaller-bodied IEMs this can be very useful.  With something larger (like the TWS800) it's harder to do since breaking the seal is harder.  The tip selected also makes a difference too when using this method (larger tips are harder to break seals with).  

Driver flex can also happen with movement as well (when the IEMs move it compresses and decompresses the air in your ear canal).  This is what can make the distinctive clicking that driver flex can make when inserting or walking around.  Driver flex can happen on a set of closed-back cans as well (either on or over ear); they were a pretty big problem with my Audeze Sine (closed back).  I actually needed to find another set of pads that breathed better on the front end to help with this, otherwise the headphone would make an audible click every time I moved my head (turning to the side for example); you could really forget about walking around.


miserybeforethemusic said:


> Thanks for the tip-rolling advice. I'll have to give it another go with the SpinFits in a day or two and see if that doesn't help. With the stock tips or Finals, though, it's practically impossible to get fit right the first time because of those pesky drivers. Good to know I'm not the only one experiencing this on a pair of high-buck TWS.
> 
> I hope the new UE tips work out as well. Looks like they are sending a larger size, which was probably based on the photos I sent in. The biggest problem I had with them was that I could feel one of the rough edges for the driver shell through the rubbery bits.


I'd probably agree with UE, the tip isn't large enough so the housing is sitting too close to your ear.


----------



## erockg

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Exactly how I feel on the matter as well. Most of the $150+ dynamic-only TWS, at least in my opinion, aren't that sonically different from the vast majority of DD-only wired headsets out there. At least, in my opinion, the TWS market still has plenty of value given its sound quality and potential feature sets. Doesn't mean they're always in the same product, but they're there.
> 
> Also, in full disclosure, I'm tabling the Nobles for now. I just can't seem to find the right fit for these without causing the drivers to bind up, so instead of being perpetually frustrated, I'm just moving on to another set. I might reattempt further down the road with foam tips, but I know that'll have an effect on the sound sig. Did ask the question in the dedicated product thread, too, but guess my question isn't important enough for them to answer...especially concerning because this is the second Noble product I've bought that has had some sort of quirk that needed to be looked into and the second one I seem to not get an answer for. Don't think I'm willing to wait around for a third strike, so unfortunately, I'm going to have to shoot it down in contention until I can share some answers and positive experiences. To be honest, it's a bit of a Devialet-level of letdown for me.
> 
> ...


What worked for me with the UE Fits, keep your jaw slightly open and push them in, leave your jaw open while they form.  The seal usually feels better afterwards.  I had this issue with my old Bragi Dash Starkey edition.  The audiologist did the fit but didn't tell me to open my jaw.  Every time I wore them the just never felt sealed.  So I was going to have them redone and another audiologist said that was the issue, I needed to have my molds made with my jaw/mouth open slightly.  Anyway, passing along for what it's worth.


----------



## Canabuc

tinyman392 said:


> When you insert the headphones into your ear, you're essentially compressing the air in your ear.  If this force exerted by this compression is higher than the resistance of the spring of the driver, then the driver will flex back.  This can end up with the driver producing no sound or having big influences on the way the driver sounds.  Porting the housing either on the front side or rear side can help equalize the air pressure.  There are also ways of inserting the IEM into your ear that can help it as well.  For example, pulling the top of your ear up while pulling the IEM body down to break the seal (let all the pressure out) then resealing it.  With smaller-bodied IEMs this can be very useful.  With something larger (like the TWS800) it's harder to do since breaking the seal is harder.  The tip selected also makes a difference too when using this method (larger tips are harder to break seals with).
> 
> Driver flex can also happen with movement as well (when the IEMs move it compresses and decompresses the air in your ear canal).  This is what can make the distinctive clicking that driver flex can make when inserting or walking around.  Driver flex can happen on a set of closed-back cans as well (either on or over ear); they were a pretty big problem with my Audeze Sine (closed back).  I actually needed to find another set of pads that breathed better on the front end to help with this, otherwise the headphone would make an audible click every time I moved my head (turning to the side for example); you could really forget about walking around.
> 
> I'd probably agree with UE, the tip isn't large enough so the housing is sitting too close to your ear.



Interesting. Think when I walk with large tips on the freebuds pro I can hear a crinkling sound.thouggt it was just noise from silicon and it is inaudible when music playing.
Seemed to go away when I downsized the tips. Wonder if this may have been driver flex.


----------



## bladefd

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Exactly how I feel on the matter as well. Most of the $150+ dynamic-only TWS, at least in my opinion, aren't that sonically different from the vast majority of DD-only wired headsets out there. At least, in my opinion, the TWS market still has plenty of value given its sound quality and potential feature sets. Doesn't mean they're always in the same product, but they're there.
> 
> Also, in full disclosure, I'm tabling the Nobles for now. I just can't seem to find the right fit for these without causing the drivers to bind up, so instead of being perpetually frustrated, I'm just moving on to another set. I might reattempt further down the road with foam tips, but I know that'll have an effect on the sound sig. Did ask the question in the dedicated product thread, too, but guess my question isn't important enough for them to answer...especially concerning because this is the second Noble product I've bought that has had some sort of quirk that needed to be looked into and the second one I seem to not get an answer for. Don't think I'm willing to wait around for a third strike, so unfortunately, I'm going to have to shoot it down in contention until I can share some answers and positive experiences. To be honest, it's a bit of a Devialet-level of letdown for me.
> 
> ...


I think the tips are much more important than people realize. In not just fitting & comfort but very much sound quality too. I searched hard to see if anyone compared different tws eartips, but it seems to be something not done unfortunately. I guess the problem is tws is such a new area and traditional tips don't work. Tws-specific tips market is fairly new so nobody has gotten around to comparing tws-specific tips.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic (Mar 17, 2021)

erockg said:


> What worked for me with the UE Fits, keep your jaw slightly open and push them in, leave your jaw open while they form.  The seal usually feels better afterwards.  I had this issue with my old Bragi Dash Starkey edition.  The audiologist did the fit but didn't tell me to open my jaw.  Every time I wore them the just never felt sealed.  So I was going to have them redone and another audiologist said that was the issue, I needed to have my molds made with my jaw/mouth open slightly.  Anyway, passing along for what it's worth.


*smacks head* _open. mouth. mold_. You're a genius. Now excuse me while I fervently refresh my tracking so I know the exact moment it's in the mailbox...Wonder if I have something I can use as a bite block around here, now that you mention it.


Canabuc said:


> Interesting. Think when I walk with large tips on the freebuds pro I can hear a crinkling sound.thouggt it was just noise from silicon and it is inaudible when music playing.
> Seemed to go away when I downsized the tips. Wonder if this may have been driver flex.


Sounds like driver flex to me. You can really pick it up on some of the cheaper sealed Dynamic Driver sets out there. Was pretty easy for me to do it with a lot of the KZs before they were utilizing shell vents (sigh...still miss my ES4). Weirdly out-of-place to find it on a $300+ set, but as you can see from @tinyman392,  even the Hifiman weren't immune. Just unfortunate that no other set I have has an issue with it.


bladefd said:


> I think the tips are much more important than people realize. In not just fitting & comfort but very much sound quality too. I searched hard to see if anyone compared different tws eartips, but it seems to be something not done unfortunately. I guess the problem is tws is such a new area and traditional tips don't work. Tws-specific tips market is fairly new so nobody has gotten around to comparing tws-specific tips.


I think there were enough of us that tip-rolled like crazy during the rise of Chi-Fi that we at least understood the concept. It's one of the reasons I have a higher level in confidence that foamies might help with the NFP's flex issues, but I've spent enough on tips and various TWS at this point (not to mention the ER4XR and Etymotion BT cable I also snagged). Think I can hold off a paycheck or two for getting the foams.


----------



## tinyman392

erockg said:


> What worked for me with the UE Fits, keep your jaw slightly open and push them in, leave your jaw open while they form.  The seal usually feels better afterwards.  I had this issue with my old Bragi Dash Starkey edition.  The audiologist did the fit but didn't tell me to open my jaw.  Every time I wore them the just never felt sealed.  So I was going to have them redone and another audiologist said that was the issue, I needed to have my molds made with my jaw/mouth open slightly.  Anyway, passing along for what it's worth.


Yup, may or may not be super known, but this is common practice when fitting CIEMs.  A lot of places will actually have a block for you to bite on while they're molding your impressions. 


Canabuc said:


> Interesting. Think when I walk with large tips on the freebuds pro I can hear a crinkling sound.thouggt it was just noise from silicon and it is inaudible when music playing.
> Seemed to go away when I downsized the tips. Wonder if this may have been driver flex.


This is likely driver flex.  Silicone really doesn't make a crinkling sound.  Flex is normally caused by a seal that is too strong.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

tinyman392 said:


> This is likely driver flex.  Silicone really doesn't make a crinkling sound.  Flex is normally caused by a seal that is too strong.


Also worth mentioning that if you try to force a better seal than was originally designed for the earbud/IEM/TWS you're using, you often end up with an overabundance of bass, especially if you're going for deep insertion when deep insertion isn't preferred.


----------



## tinyman392

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Also worth mentioning that if you try to force a better seal than was originally designed for the earbud/IEM/TWS you're using, you often end up with an overabundance of bass, especially if you're going for deep insertion when deep insertion isn't preferred.


That's also part of tip rolling IMO.  Insertion depth makes huge differences when it comes to sound too.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic (Mar 17, 2021)

Decent deal if you need gift ideas for little ones that won't break the bank. Edifier just notified me they were doing a one-day sale (edit: the refurb TWS1 don't look like they're a part of it, but price is still good):

https://www.edifier.com/us/en/refurbished/edifier-tws1-ref
https://www.edifier.com/us/en/headphones-earphones/twsnb-true-wireless-earbud-headphones

Flyer is pretty cute, though. Can tell they spent a lot of time on it...


----------



## erockg

tinyman392 said:


> Yup, may or may not be super known, but this is common practice when fitting CIEMs.  A lot of places will actually have a block for you to bite on while they're molding your impressions.
> 
> This is likely driver flex.  Silicone really doesn't make a crinkling sound.  Flex is normally caused by a seal that is too strong.


Exactly.  At the time, the first audiologist didn't agree with me.  Amazing.  You'd think they'd all be aware.  Oh well.  But man, I do miss my Bragi Dash Pros...


----------



## tinyman392

erockg said:


> Exactly.  At the time, the first audiologist didn't agree with me.  Amazing.  You'd think they'd all be aware.  Oh well.  But man, I do miss my Bragi Dash Pros...


I guess it depends on where you go  I chose from a list provided by Ultimate Ears, which is what Unique Melody told me to do for my HiFiMan IEMs.


----------



## erockg

tinyman392 said:


> I guess it depends on where you go  I chose from a list provided by Ultimate Ears, which is what Unique Melody told me to do for my HiFiMan IEMs.


Agreed.  I went to a Starkey approved audiologist back then.  Big fail and not really a great experience here in LA.  Never had the other UE IEM's though, only the Fits.  Always tempted to get the UE 5's or something.


----------



## erockg

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Decent deal if you need gift ideas for little ones that won't break the bank. Edifier just notified me they were doing a one-day sale (edit: the refurb TWS1 don't look like they're a part of it, but price is still good):
> 
> https://www.edifier.com/us/en/refurbished/edifier-tws1-ref
> https://www.edifier.com/us/en/headphones-earphones/twsnb-true-wireless-earbud-headphones
> ...


Did I just fall out of my DeLorean?  Either way, Happy St. Patrick Valentine's Day!  Ooof.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

erockg said:


> Agreed.  I went to a Starkey approved audiologist back then.  Big fail and not really a great experience here in LA.  Never had the other UE IEM's though, only the Fits.  Always tempted to get the UE 5's or something.


I think you have a bit of an upper hand being close to UE headquarters. May just be able to schedule an appointment to show up and get scanned (pretty sure they migrated to 3D scans in lieu of impressions) there.


erockg said:


> Did I just fall out of my DeLorean?  Either way, Happy St. Patrick Valentine's Day!  Ooof.


I had to double-take myself. Looks like someone was a little sleepy in the publicity department. 🤣


----------



## dj24

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Note to self, when looking for solutions to driver flex, do not consult Yahoo...yikes:
> 
> https://answers.yahoo.com/question/...-uyyxl8AkyiI_EBf313xavCeRhR-Om9ZO0eYnM6kcX4a8
> 
> ...



Can you tell which foam tips (maybe a link) work with with your EA75t?  Do they fit in the case comfortably?


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

dj24 said:


> Can you tell which foam tips (maybe a link) work with with your EA75t?  Do they fit in the case comfortably?


If I were to get any, I'd be looking at one of these two:

https://dekoniaudio.com/product/dek...black-the-mercury-true-wireless-4-9mm-3-pack/
https://www.amazon.com/Comply-Truly...d=1&keywords=comply+tws&qid=1616015746&sr=8-3

But I have spent so much lately; I'm forcing myself to go on a break and learn to enjoy what I have. To be honest, though, I wouldn't bother with foams on the EA75t. I would wholeheartedly recommend these instead:

https://www.mtmtaudio.com/collectio...-for-true-wireless-bluetooth-earphone-2-pairs


​And then these guys showed up. Man, there's just something about the UE FITS packaging that's just fun and fresh...and minimal...but I really can't understand for the life of me why they thought it necessary to include 2 pamphlets of safety information, one which I'm pretty sure I can hold onto in case I need shade on a hot day.

Regardless, I gingerly removed the old tips and installed the new, significantly larger tips onto the FITS per the guided instructions on the FITS app. Once I found a makeshift bite block, I pushed in a little harder than last time and patiently waited for the process to finish. Let me tell you, it feels very, _very _weird when the stem starts moving into your inner ear. Nothing uncomfortable, though.

The end result has left me all smiles so far. Fitment feels much more secure. I can shake my head all over the place and open my mouth wide (for those Dokken vocals, man) and the seal doesn't shift _at all_. Now they live up to their name and that's the best I could ask for.

Which brings me to the final point: if you can swing the asking price for these and just want a listening set that can handle the occasional phone call as well, these are still probably going to sit at the top of my recommended list. They _are_ a sound signature you'll have to get used to if you're coming from the vast majority of U or V-shaped pairs on the market, but I think you might find yourself wanting to. Guess we'll see what @erockg thinks after he's had some time with them


----------



## tinyman392

erockg said:


> Agreed.  I went to a Starkey approved audiologist back then.  Big fail and not really a great experience here in LA.  Never had the other UE IEM's though, only the Fits.  Always tempted to get the UE 5's or something.



I had a UE900 before this, not a CIEM though.  A very good one none-the less.  I’m always tempted to pull the trigger on a UERM or something, but never have.


----------



## CocaCola15

erockg said:


> The volume issue happens for me with the Melomania 1+ on an iPhone.  Every time I put them in the case to charge, then open to reuse them, the volume is back at 50%.  Annoying.  No other buds I own do this.


Me too. Annoying but I love the sound.


----------



## tinyman392

erockg said:


> The volume issue happens for me with the Melomania 1+ on an iPhone.  Every time I put them in the case to charge, then open to reuse them, the volume is back at 50%.  Annoying.  No other buds I own do this.



My Fiio adapters keep going to 100%.  My AirPods Max did this too at one point, but have since stopped.  The TRN adapters I have go to like 33% or something every time.


----------



## JES

I just got these *EarFun Free Pro* earbuds to replace my aged Anbes 359 (which are bulletproof btw ... I have a NIB set as a backup but haven't needed them). I use them solely to work out, and I'm liking them for that purpose. I have a couple questions:

1. Since the shaft/nozzle isn't round, _how do I know what aftermarket ear tips will work?_ For instance, does anyone know which size SpinFits work? Or any other brand?

2. I had to really turn down the bass. I use Wavelet on my Samsung Galaxy S10. _Does anybody have any EQ settings I could compare to?_ I've got them pretty close to where I want them, but I'm curious how others have tuned them.

Thanks for any info that can be shared.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

JES said:


> I just got these *EarFun Free Pro* earbuds to replace my aged Anbes 359 (which are bulletproof btw ... I have a NIB set as a backup but haven't needed them). I use them solely to work out, and I'm liking them for that purpose. I have a couple questions:
> 
> 1. Since the shaft/nozzle isn't round, _how do I know what aftermarket ear tips will work?_ For instance, does anyone know which size SpinFits work? Or any other brand?
> 
> ...


Huh...never noticed the tips weren't circles until you mentioned it. CP360s worked just fine on them (Mediums tend to work in my ears). As long as the measurements are relatively similar to the CP360's shaft and bore, you should be good with any other set as well.

Yes, they're overwhelming in bass when you come from something neutral. The only EQ settings I've been using are generated based on my ears (I use Neutralizer). If you can swing a few bucks for the app, I wholeheartedly recommend it. Basically gives every pair you own SoundID, wired or otherwise, each with their own individual presets. Think I remember it being 5 USD or less. Alternatively, you could see if someone's made an AutoEQ profile for it and run Wavelet/Neutron instead.


----------



## vladzakhar

I had the driver flex on my left Noble Falcon Pro monitor till I switched to Symbio hybrid ear tips with foam inside. The flex is gone now.
https://symbioeartips.com/


----------



## tinyman392

I kind of want to try the Falcon Pro, though the OG Falcon’s I have are a bit V-shaped  I also like the tiny case the OG Falcons have, it’s smaller than the APP case!


----------



## JES

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Huh...never noticed the tips weren't circles until you mentioned it. CP360s worked just fine on them (Mediums tend to work in my ears). As long as the measurements are relatively similar to the CP360's shaft and bore, you should be good with any other set as well.
> 
> Yes, they're overwhelming in bass when you come from something neutral. The only EQ settings I've been using are generated based on my ears (I use Neutralizer). If you can swing a few bucks for the app, I wholeheartedly recommend it. Basically gives every pair you own SoundID, wired or otherwise, each with their own individual presets. Think I remember it being 5 USD or less. Alternatively, you could see if someone's made an AutoEQ profile for it and run Wavelet/Neutron instead.


Thanks for the quick answer ... that really helps. I'll try Neutralizer. And the CP360s

You said "Wavelet/*Neutron*". Neutron as in the Neutron Music Player? I stream every thing from Qobuz. I'm not sure if that app will work for me (if that's what you're referring to). Or did you mean Wavelet/Neutralizer?


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

JES said:


> Thanks for the quick answer ... that really helps. I'll try Neutralizer. And the CP360s
> 
> You said "Wavelet/*Neutron*". Neutron as in the Neutron Music Player? I stream every thing from Qobuz. I'm not sure if that app will work for me (if that's what you're referring to). Or did you mean Wavelet/Neutralizer?


Sadly, no, though UAPP does support Qobuz. I mentioned Wavelet and Neutron together because they both utilize the AutoEQ database (aka oratory1990 and Friends' neutralization EQ curves). If you just want to run the native Qobuz app, then you'd only need to run Wavelet or Neutralizer in addition to it.


----------



## jant71

Another budget model...






Cheap, a couple colors, light, plenty of battery, Quick charge 40 min. to full, Titanium coated driver, and full controls with volume and track control.  No ambient or other features though.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

jant71 said:


> Another budget model...
> 
> 
> Cheap, a couple colors, light, plenty of battery, Quick charge 40 min. to full, Titanium coated driver, and full controls with volume and track control.  No ambient or other features though.


I ordered these a week or so ago from their international store. I'll definitely provide impressions once it arrives, but I wouldn't expect too much from it given the price point.


----------



## jant71

miserybeforethemusic said:


> I ordered these a week or so ago from their international store. I'll definitely provide impressions once it arrives, but I wouldn't expect too much from it given the price point.


Someone said better than TWS1 and X3 but not better sounding than NB2. No real burn in or tip rolling so it seems solid not spectacular. Getting your moneys worth. A Soundpeats Sonic competitor.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

jant71 said:


> Someone said better than TWS1 and X3 but not better sounding than NB2. No real burn in or tip rolling so it seems solid not spectacular. Getting your moneys worth. A Soundpeats Sonic competitor.


The NW2 are on sale today if you'd like to put that to the test. Think they're marked down to 80 USD at the moment.


----------



## erockg

miserybeforethemusic said:


> If I were to get any, I'd be looking at one of these two:
> 
> https://dekoniaudio.com/product/dek...black-the-mercury-true-wireless-4-9mm-3-pack/
> https://www.amazon.com/Comply-Truly...d=1&keywords=comply+tws&qid=1616015746&sr=8-3
> ...


Never Unchain the Night, Dude.  Lynch rules.


----------



## clerkpalmer

vladzakhar said:


> I had the driver flex on my left Noble Falcon Pro monitor till I switched to Symbio hybrid ear tips with foam inside. The flex is gone now.
> https://symbioeartips.com/


Holy crap those are large. How do you get them to stay in your ears? I can barely get them in with the medium stock tips.


----------



## samandhi

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Sadly, no, though UAPP does support Qobuz. I mentioned Wavelet and Neutron together because they both utilize the AutoEQ database (aka oratory1990 and Friends' neutralization EQ curves). If you just want to run the native Qobuz app, then you'd only need to run Wavelet or Neutralizer in addition to it.


Samsung phones have their own version of Netralizer baked in called Adapt Sound, which does the same thing. It has been a part of the samsung ecology for quit a few years now. I'm sort of surprised that no company has taken advantage of how well it works until recently.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

erockg said:


> Never Unchain the Night, Dude.  Lynch rules.


Always felt like I appreciated Lynch more than most of the guitarists I was told to appreciate, much the same way I've got a soft spot for Malmsteen, corny as his stuff can be from time to time.

What's your take on the FITS so far?


----------



## Mouseman

Canabuc said:


> Am I the only one that doesn't like spinfits? They feel flimsy and crinkly in my ear and have yet to get a better fit with them....
> I got strange ears I guess


No, you're not alone. I can't stand them and find them uncomfortable. Spiral dots for the win. Or Radio Shack ones.


----------



## samandhi

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Always felt like I appreciated Lynch more than most of the guitarists I was told to appreciate, much the same way I've got a soft spot for Malmsteen, corny as his stuff can be from time to time.
> 
> What's your take on the FITS so far?


I couldn't agree more Lynch was some of my favorite pickin in my youth. 


Mouseman said:


> No, you're not alone. I can't stand them and find them uncomfortable. Spiral dots for the win. Or Radio Shack ones.


Off topic, but I love your avatar. I used to love watching Dangermouse quah.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

clerkpalmer said:


> Holy crap those are large. How do you get them to stay in your ears? I can barely get them in with the medium stock tips.


If I remember right, the foam on the inside compresses and the outer shell is pretty soft silicone. Think of shoving a Comply tip inside of a SpinFit.

Agree with you, though. Those must bounce back super quick.


----------



## Mouseman

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Always felt like I appreciated Lynch more than most of the guitarists I was told to appreciate, much the same way I've got a soft spot for Malmsteen, corny as his stuff can be from time to time.
> 
> What's your take on the FITS so far?


Yngwie F'ing Malmsteen! I grew up on his early stuff. Fire and Ice is a great disc, along with everything before it. Once he started doing his own vocals, I was out. 


samandhi said:


> I couldn't agree more Lynch was some of my favorite pickin in my youth.
> 
> Off topic, but I love your avatar. I used to love watching Dangermouse quah.


Thanks. I needed something ages ago to fit my username and he's a lot cooler than Mickey.


----------



## Canabuc (Mar 17, 2021)

tinyman392 said:


> Yup, may or may not be super known, but this is common practice when fitting CIEMs.  A lot of places will actually have a block for you to bite on while they're molding your impressions.
> 
> This is likely driver flex.  Silicone really doesn't make a crinkling sound.  Flex is normally caused by a seal that is too strong.


Might be. When I went down a size in tip it seems to go away but then lying down or smiling I would lose seal. That crinkling though would occur if I would wiggle my ears or walk and was only audible if music was paused.

Discovered a neat trick though which might help others with getting a better fit with their ear tips.

I had some foam cheap earplugs. I trimmed off a piece about as thick as a quarter and size of a dime punched a hole in it. Then turned my tips into Symbio style. I put the form under the UNfolded silicone. Then folded Beck over to the normal shape. This have the tips a bit more volume but with foam that can conform to the ear.
The fit is now perfect. The crinkle is gone too. The comfort is great as well.

Have to say I am loving the freebuds pro. The fit is so secure even with no wings I worked out with them and they were as secure as the MT.

The sound is great. In fact I like the sound enough the Sony wf-1000xm3 are going back. They offer exactly nothing over the freebuds pro except for an EQ.

That is my only wish in these buds is an in app EQ. Wavelet gets me almost perfect. The sound signature is on the warmer side like the 85t. But the separation detail, imaging soundstage are better. Reminds me of the MTW2 sound except missing those sparkly highs I love in the MTW2, but with better lower end.
And that ANC is amazing.


----------



## tinyman392

Canabuc said:


> Might be. When I went down a size in tip it seems to go away but then lying down or smiling I would lose seal. That crinkling though would occur if I would wiggle my ears or walk and was only audible if music was paused.
> 
> Discovered a neat trick though which might help others with getting a better fit with their ear tips.
> 
> ...


The more you describe it, the more like driver flex it sounds.


----------



## Canabuc

Coolest thing about them also is that each bud has all the controls including volume so you don't have to remember which buds had what it if you just use one you still have full control.


----------



## Canabuc

tinyman392 said:


> The more you describe it, the more like driver flex it sounds.


Maybe.  In any case it seems to be gone with my home made Symbio setup and seal is still amazing


----------



## SemiAudiophile

bladefd said:


> I think the tips are much more important than people realize. In not just fitting & comfort but very much sound quality too. I searched hard to see if anyone compared different tws eartips, but it seems to be something not done unfortunately. I guess the problem is tws is such a new area and traditional tips don't work. Tws-specific tips market is fairly new so nobody has gotten around to comparing tws-specific tips.


 I hardly ever go with the stock tips. Prob 90% of the time. It's usually because they either don't fit snugly in my ear or just the sound is off. Too hollow/bassy. Sometimes the tips are just too long and they stick out. 🤷🏻‍♂️ Foam tips always seem to degrade sound quality IMO. They're great if you like bass though. I like using them on my earfun free for casual working out sessions.


----------



## tinyman392

SemiAudiophile said:


> I hardly ever go with the stock tips. Prob 90% of the time. It's usually because they either don't fit snugly in my ear or just the sound is off. Too hollow/bassy. Sometimes the tips are just too long and they stick out. 🤷🏻‍♂️ Foam tips always seem to degrade sound quality IMO. They're great if you like bass though. I like using them on my earfun free for casual working out sessions.


I tend to try to get a stock tips.  Since they tend to change sound quite drastically, I feel like the engineers that designed the IEMs may have kept the tip in mind.  Though at the same time many include those spares and stuff too 🤷‍♂️ Though when I wrote reviews, I always tried my hardest to stick to a stock tip since that's typically what a buyer would be stuck with.


----------



## SemiAudiophile (Mar 18, 2021)

tinyman392 said:


> I feel like the engineers that designed the IEMs may have kept the tip in mind.


You would think so, but I feel like the tips they often come with are some cheapo run of the mill tips. I generally try to stick with stock too for the first couple of days. Stock tips for the cx400 and n6p did sound the best to me.

Well, everyone's ear canal is built different, so you can't really design a tip that'll fit everyone. Unlike headphones where the pads just fit over/around the ear.


----------



## bladefd

SemiAudiophile said:


> I hardly ever go with the stock tips. Prob 90% of the time. It's usually because they either don't fit snugly in my ear or just the sound is off. Too hollow/bassy. Sometimes the tips are just too long and they stick out. 🤷🏻‍♂️ Foam tips always seem to degrade sound quality IMO. They're great if you like bass though. I like using them on my earfun free for casual working out sessions.


What tips do you use with tws?


----------



## SemiAudiophile (Mar 18, 2021)

bladefd said:


> What tips do you use with tws?


Nothing specific. I just keep the stock tips whenever I buy TWS/IEMs. Often if I find the stock tips don't work for me I just use the tips from another model as long as the bore fits. 😂 I generally prefer shorter style tips and start with the smallest size. If I find the fit too loose, I go a size up.

Ex. I'm using cx400 tips on the gt220, that seemed to work for me soundwise. I'm actually using n6p tips on the ZAX right now and just got spinfit cp155 and SednaEarfit for the B2 Dusk. Stock tips on the Dusk made the soundstage sound too narrow.


----------



## Caipirina

davidcotton said:


> Some bargains on amazon uk today.
> 
> Airpods pro £189, presumably because of the new models coming soon supposedly
> 
> ...


Thanks so much for that heads-up
I managed to see this in time and alert a UK friend to grab me a pair (of the echo buds since @webvan kerps talking about them  ). 
now, if / how / when I will get those is a different story. This friend was scheduled to relocate to my island in the middle of nowhere just when wave 2 of Corona hit ... now, we are waiting  I hear UK ppl are especially welcome


----------



## jant71

Not sure if it was Covid but we were supposed to have more of these. Obvious with more features and functions we need more dual control buds and the rotary control is a better option than a button or touch on the edge. The disc kind there is not the best though. We were supposed to have the Helm...




...which is better than disc shape since you can grab and adjust fit and stuff w/o worry about spinning the control. Rotary seems the best way to go to split controls and not have a stem. Rotary does all the volume and track controls leaving the touch center for voice assistant, ambient, ANC, hearthrough etc.  Was hoping the new Sony TWS would go this route.


----------



## clerkpalmer

Looking for an upgrade to my mpow m30 for biking. I don’t need an open ear design or ANC. Any recommendations sub 100 ish? Thanks


----------



## Canabuc

jant71 said:


> Not sure if it was Covid but we were supposed to have more of these. Obvious with more features and functions we need more dual control buds and the rotary control is a better option than a button or touch on the edge. The disc kind there is not the best though. We were supposed to have the Helm...
> 
> ...which is better than disc shape since you can grab and adjust fit and stuff w/o worry about spinning the control. Rotary seems the best way to go to split controls and not have a stem. Rotary does all the volume and track controls leaving the touch center for voice assistant, ambient, ANC, hearthrough etc.  Was hoping the new Sony TWS would go this route.




Freebuds pro can do everything form each stem. Volume, track, ANC....and duplicated so even if only in earbud in your ear you can still control everything. A first for me to see in a bud.


----------



## Peddler (Mar 18, 2021)

I recently bought some inexpensive triple flange tips for use with several of my headphones and love the improvement in sound quality and fit - I always got on well with the Etymotics when using the triple flange tips.

I'm currently using them on my ibasso IT00, Triple Fi 10's and Magaosi K3 Pro's. The only problem is that they won't fit in most TWS charging cases otherwise I would have also used them with the Lypertek Tevi and Mavin Air-X. 

Luckily I always get a good fit with the Sony WF1000XM3's and Apollo Bold so I don't need them for those.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

clerkpalmer said:


> Looking for an upgrade to my mpow m30 for biking. I don’t need an open ear design or ANC. Any recommendations sub 100 ish? Thanks


If you can EQ it, the Earfun Free Pro wouldn't be a bad choice. Should be relatively close to MPOW's house sound. They do really well with the Final tips, in my experience. Seems to clean up the bass quite a bit. SpinFits work well with them, too.


----------



## clerkpalmer

miserybeforethemusic said:


> If you can EQ it, the Earfun Free Pro wouldn't be a bad choice. Should be relatively close to MPOW's house sound. They do really well with the Final tips, in my experience. Seems to clean up the bass quite a bit. SpinFits work well with them, too.


Thanks. Reading over at Scarbir, I’m wondering if the CX400 isn’t the best of the best for 100. No IP rating but I wonder if that’s marketing to sell more MTW. I mean they have to have basic sweat protection right?


----------



## Canabuc




----------



## miserybeforethemusic

clerkpalmer said:


> Thanks. Reading over at Scarbir, I’m wondering if the CX400 isn’t the best of the best for 100. No IP rating but I wonder if that’s marketing to sell more MTW. I mean they have to have basic sweat protection right?


I remember reading that their IP rating was fairly low and I'd have concerns about them falling out over time, but yes. I'd agree they're probably the sonic winners


----------



## Canabuc

clerkpalmer said:


> Thanks. Reading over at Scarbir, I’m wondering if the CX400 isn’t the best of the best for 100. No IP rating but I wonder if that’s marketing to sell more MTW. I mean they have to have basic sweat protection right?



Has the cx400bt and if you want MTW2 sound on a budget with full controls they are a good choice.

Volume was not that loud for me and as such battery life suffered as I had to at it 20 percent louder than other buds.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

clerkpalmer said:


> Thanks. Reading over at Scarbir, I’m wondering if the CX400 isn’t the best of the best for 100. No IP rating but I wonder if that’s marketing to sell more MTW. I mean they have to have basic sweat protection right?


These will. I'm still blown away at how good these sound after a tip changeout. That addition of ANC and HearThrough is a big plus. Its implementation works considerably bettter than EarFun's:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Jabra-Elit...171807&hash=item264977b349:g:fMMAAOSw7j5fhG2N


----------



## clerkpalmer

miserybeforethemusic said:


> These will. I'm still blown away at how good these sound after a tip changeout. That addition of ANC and HearThrough is a big plus. Its implementation works considerably bettter than EarFun's:
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/Jabra-Elite-Active-75t-True-Wireless-Earbuds-Certified-Refurbished/164441338697?epid=6038171807&hash=item264977b349:g:


Thanks. I don’t think about the Jabra too often because I’ve sound the sound to be just average. Will check them out.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic (Mar 18, 2021)

clerkpalmer said:


> Thanks. I don’t think about the Jabra too often because I’ve sound the sound to be just average. Will check them out.


I don't usually think about Jabra, either. I almost forgot to recommend them, but maybe the EA75t's fun tuning helps. Still surprises me that I find myself reaching for them more than the 85t during the workday, even on days where I know I won't be taking any calls.


----------



## erockg

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Always felt like I appreciated Lynch more than most of the guitarists I was told to appreciate, much the same way I've got a soft spot for Malmsteen, corny as his stuff can be from time to time.
> 
> What's your take on the FITS so far?


I get my new set tomorrow, but I've had them before at full price.  I thought they really sounded nice, better EQ'd, fit is just awesome.  Wish they had ANC and I thought the limited controls were a bummer.  But again, that fit...  No shame in a little Rising Force.  Love it!


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

Half of the reference set have arrived! Still surprises me how quickly Sweetwater can ship, even with the basic options. While they both went out for delivery on the same day, the BT adapter didn't ship until Tuesday (ER4XR went out last Friday). That candy's just an added bonus.


Fwiw, I really like that Ety still packs in the neoprene case. Doesn't look any different than I remember it.


----------



## jant71

Canabuc said:


> Freebuds pro can do everything form each stem. Volume, track, ANC....and duplicated so even if only in earbud in your ear you can still control everything. A first for me to see in a bud.


 Though the point is to not need a stem esp. for those that don't want that style and has tactile control that doesn't push the buds into the ear.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

jant71 said:


> Though the point is to not need a stem esp. for those that don't want that style and has tactile control that doesn't push the buds into the ear.


Depends on the user, I suppose. Some companies do stems well, some don't. Curious to see if Jabra managed to pull it off with this:


----------



## clerkpalmer

miserybeforethemusic said:


> I don't usually think about Jabra, either. I almost forgot to recommend them, but maybe the EA75t's fun tuning helps. Still surprises me that I find myself reaching for them more than the 85t during the workday, even on days where I know I won't be taking any calls.


Pulled the trigger in the blue ones for 79.99. Thanks for the tip. Concerned on the shape of the Senns and lack of IP rating.


----------



## Canabuc

jant71 said:


> Though the point is to not need a stem esp. for those that don't want that style and has tactile control that doesn't push the buds into the ear.


This doesn't push buds in ear. No accidental presses due to the pinch controls and full volume control too. And very secure fit


----------



## jant71

Canabuc said:


> This doesn't push buds in ear. No accidental presses due to the pinch controls and full volume control too. And very secure fit


 I did say tactile so was comparing rotary to buttons. Obviously touch controls don't or shouldn't push in. And again there are those who don't want stem(I like my AT which has a stem) so pinch is not really an option for a non stem model.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

Reference set is all hooked up and ready to go. Man, this whole kit is tiny. So hard to believe everything fits in the neoprene case with plenty of room to spare.

​After having gone the TWS gamut for a couple weeks now, there's something strangely simple and satisfying about these. I have buttons...3 of them...and they do what they're supposed to do. I don't have to remember how many taps do this or that...and there's something about that simplicity that's just infectious. And while I know it's a far cry from being able to put the words "true" and "wireless" together, the overall experience is pretty darn close. Lightweight as the adapter is, it ends up being negligent if you use the packed-in clips. At that point, my sweatshirt holds the brunt of that weight and I no longer even feel the wires there unless I crane my neck. The fit is plenty secure and I'm lucky that my ear canals are large enough that I don't experience discomfort from the IEM cans.

Of course they sound good. They're ER4XRs; Head-Fi has waxed poetic on them for hundreds (if not thousands) of pages already. I can't pick up any signal degradation from wireless to wired here. Whatever DAC/amp combo they're using here has some muscle to it (pretty sure it's AKM front-to-back, but can't remember). The most remarkable part is realizing just how messed with the upper-midrange and treble are on every pair of TWS I currently have on the desk, Noble included. For some of the most accurate IEMs on the planet, they're so easy to listen to.

If you're willing to enter a higher price bracket (or patiently wait for the right deal to pop up), I think this is seriously something worth considering. Even though the Etymotion is keyed for ER-series IEMs, I did briefly hook up a pair of Tin T2 Pro to find out it works just as well. Looks goofy, but would do the trick for those willing to take function over form.


----------



## tinyman392 (Mar 18, 2021)

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Reference set is all hooked up and ready to go. Man, this whole kit is tiny. So hard to believe everything fits in the neoprene case with plenty of room to spare.
> 
> ​After having gone the TWS gamut for a couple weeks now, there's something strangely simple and satisfying about these. I have buttons...3 of them...and they do what they're supposed to do. I don't have to remember how many taps do this or that...and there's something about that simplicity that's just infectious. And while I know it's a far cry from being able to put the words "true" and "wireless" together, the overall experience is pretty darn close. Lightweight as the adapter is, it ends up being negligent if you use the packed-in clips. At that point, my sweatshirt holds the brunt of that weight and I no longer even feel the wires there unless I crane my neck. The fit is plenty secure and I'm lucky that my ear canals are large enough that I don't experience discomfort from the IEM cans.
> 
> ...



That is a very nice set up.  I have my ER4SR hooked up to the EtyMotion cable which works nicely.  If you want something that feels more natural with the T2 Pro, try one of the Fiio adapters (neckband or TWS).  The neckband has a really nice EQ on it if you download the app  I'm running their TWS setup with my Euclid right now and it works great...  Except for the volume that wants to set itself to 100% every time they turn on (neckband had no such issue).


----------



## miserybeforethemusic (Mar 18, 2021)

tinyman392 said:


> That is a very nice set up.  I have my ER4SR hooked up to the EtyMotion cable which works nicely.  If you want something that feels more natural with the T2 Pro, try one of the Fiio adapters (neckband or TWS).  The neckband has a really nice EQ on it if you download the app  I'm running their TWS setup with my Euclid right now and it works great...  Except for the volume that wants to set itself to 100% every time they turn on (neckband had no such issue).


Thanks! Figured one of the BT adapters that's meant to go around the ears would work better. May seriously consider the UTWS3 if for nothing more than to start rolling my IEMs back into rotation, but I'll probably hold off until they resolve the volume issues. The MTs already gave me enough grief with that.


----------



## erockg

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Half of the reference set have arrived! Still surprises me how quickly Sweetwater can ship, even with the basic options. While they both went out for delivery on the same day, the BT adapter didn't ship until Tuesday (ER4XR went out last Friday). That candy's just an added bonus.
> 
> Fwiw, I really like that Ety still packs in the neoprene case. Doesn't look any different than I remember it.


I think it's time for an intervention.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic (Mar 18, 2021)

erockg said:


> I think it's time for an intervention.


I'm fine. I swear I can stop at any time.

I just don't want to.

_Disclaimer: This is satire. I do not condone nor support Gear Acquisition Disorder in any form. Please don't sue me._


----------



## tinyman392

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Thanks! Figured one of the BT adapters that's meant to go around the ears would work better. May seriously consider the UTWS3 if for nothing more than to start rolling my IEMs back into rotation, but I'll probably hold off until they resolve the volume issues. The MTs already gave me enough grief with that.


If you don’t mind having a non-TWS setup, their neckband works very well and doesn’t have said volume issue. Fiio also had a firmware update which deal with “volume logic” I have had no luck installing for the UTWS3 as well.


----------



## erockg

miserybeforethemusic said:


> I'm fine. I swear I can stop at any time.
> 
> I just don't want to.
> 
> _Disclaimer: This is satire. I do not condone nor support Gear Acquisition Disorder in any form. Please don't sue me._


100%  My wife said to me yesterday, "I just don't understand why you're always testing out so many headphones."  I said, "You wouldn't understand unless it were stretchy pants and healthy foods that go to waste because they tasted bad."  She replied, "Whatever."  Conversation over.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

erockg said:


> 100%  My wife said to me yesterday, "I just don't understand why you're always testing out so many headphones."  I said, "You wouldn't understand unless it were stretchy pants and healthy foods that go to waste because they tasted bad."  She replied, "Whatever."  Conversation over.


I'm eternally lucky that my wife chose makeup for a hobby. Makes it really easy to draw parallels when I ask her why she needs 500 brushes (or, worse, one $500 brush) or that new independently-made palette that sold out faster on Instagram than Halen tickets did with a physical box office in the 80s.

We have discussed what I spend on gear three times in our 15+ years of marriage; each conversation never made it past 5 minutes before we realized we're both too far in the rabbit hole to take shots across the bow.


----------



## tiagopinto

miserybeforethemusic said:


> If anybody starts one (or more), I'd appreciate a mention in them so I know where to look.



I’d rather discuss this all in one thread, honestly...


----------



## C_Lindbergh

Now that I finally got my exchange unit from Cambridge Audio I can finally enjoy them. 

After the last firmware update I got no issues with the MT, my only minor complaint would be the touch controls, they're a bit harder to get right even compared to other touch control TWS like the MTW2. 

But oh man, the sound quality and comfort... I just can't believe these only setted me back by 140 EUR. The Sennheiser CX400 are deffo going back, there's nothing wrong with them, for the price they're incredible, I just miss certain features like ambient mode.


----------



## samandhi

erockg said:


> 100%  My wife said to me yesterday, "I just don't understand why you're always testing out so many headphones."  I said, "You wouldn't understand unless it were stretchy pants and healthy foods that go to waste because they tasted bad."  She replied, "Whatever."  Conversation over.


And then there was the couch....


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

samandhi said:


> And then there was the couch....


I get in trouble when I go to the couch on my own during arguments. It's weird. I don't understand it.

Taking a break tonight. Ety ear is real, but so worth it. I should have bought those ER4XR years ago. Makes one awesome reference point against all these TWS.



C_Lindbergh said:


> Now that I finally got my exchange unit from Cambridge Audio I can finally enjoy them.
> 
> After the last firmware update I got no issues with the MT, my only minor complaint would be the touch controls, they're a bit harder to get right even compared to other touch control TWS like the MTW2.
> 
> But oh man, the sound quality and comfort... I just can't believe these only setted me back by 140 EUR. The Sennheiser CX400 are deffo going back, there's nothing wrong with them, for the price they're incredible, I just miss certain features like ambient mode.


That's great to hear! Now I really need to get mine out via the RMA. Hopefully I'll find some time tomorrow.


----------



## Caipirina

To Jabra or not to Jabra? 75 or 85? Runner's thud or pressure relief vents ...   so many questions. 
Ever since the Jabra Elite sport, my very first TWS, I have not gotten really into any of the other offerings .. but I keep reading so much between the lines, like 75 have a more 'fun' tuning, and now thanks FW they can do ANC as well? The 85 on the other hand have really kick ass ANC? Some sites say the 85 are 'semi in ear' and have pressure relief valves / vents, so does that mean there's no runner's thud? 

Having a chance here to get a set of the 85 locally, and trying to get that done before they adjust the price (the way local currency performs to USD, I have seen that i.e. that Bose set I recently bought now is 50-60$ more expensive, similar for the Galaxy Buds Pro) 

Oh, and if there was a choice ... J85t or the GBPro?


----------



## Bhelpoori

Caipirina said:


> To Jabra or not to Jabra? 75 or 85? Runner's thud or pressure relief vents ...   so many questions.
> Ever since the Jabra Elite sport, my very first TWS, I have not gotten really into any of the other offerings .. but I keep reading so much between the lines, like 75 have a more 'fun' tuning, and now thanks FW they can do ANC as well? The 85 on the other hand have really kick ass ANC? Some sites say the 85 are 'semi in ear' and have pressure relief valves / vents, so does that mean there's no runner's thud?
> 
> Having a chance here to get a set of the 85 locally, and trying to get that done before they adjust the price (the way local currency performs to USD, I have seen that i.e. that Bose set I recently bought now is 50-60$ more expensive, similar for the Galaxy Buds Pro)
> ...


I use the 85s to fast walk the dog and they have slightly less thump than the Airpod Pros so still there but reasonable for me.


----------



## Caipirina

Bhelpoori said:


> I use the 85s to fast walk the dog and they have slightly less thump than the Airpod Pros so still there but reasonable for me.


That's great info, as I perceive the APP already as 'not so thumpy'. Thanks


----------



## clerkpalmer

Caipirina said:


> To Jabra or not to Jabra? 75 or 85? Runner's thud or pressure relief vents ...   so many questions.
> Ever since the Jabra Elite sport, my very first TWS, I have not gotten really into any of the other offerings .. but I keep reading so much between the lines, like 75 have a more 'fun' tuning, and now thanks FW they can do ANC as well? The 85 on the other hand have really kick ass ANC? Some sites say the 85 are 'semi in ear' and have pressure relief valves / vents, so does that mean there's no runner's thud?
> 
> Having a chance here to get a set of the 85 locally, and trying to get that done before they adjust the price (the way local currency performs to USD, I have seen that i.e. that Bose set I recently bought now is 50-60$ more expensive, similar for the Galaxy Buds Pro)
> ...


https://www.rtings.com/headphones/tools/compare/jabra-elite-active-75t-vs-jabra-elite-85t/1801/18452

Judging from the frequency response charts, the 85t is far more neutral. For running buds, the 75t may be more “fun”.


----------



## clerkpalmer

Caipirina said:


> To Jabra or not to Jabra? 75 or 85? Runner's thud or pressure relief vents ...   so many questions.
> Ever since the Jabra Elite sport, my very first TWS, I have not gotten really into any of the other offerings .. but I keep reading so much between the lines, like 75 have a more 'fun' tuning, and now thanks FW they can do ANC as well? The 85 on the other hand have really kick ass ANC? Some sites say the 85 are 'semi in ear' and have pressure relief valves / vents, so does that mean there's no runner's thud?
> 
> Having a chance here to get a set of the 85 locally, and trying to get that done before they adjust the price (the way local currency performs to USD, I have seen that i.e. that Bose set I recently bought now is 50-60$ more expensive, similar for the Galaxy Buds Pro)
> ...


What’s the “Gbpro”?


----------



## tinyman392

clerkpalmer said:


> https://www.rtings.com/headphones/tools/compare/jabra-elite-active-75t-vs-jabra-elite-85t/1801/18452
> 
> Judging from the frequency response charts, the 85t is far more neutral. For running buds, the 75t may be more “fun”.


Neutral or Harman? I think RTings uses the Harman curve vs the DF Neutral curve for their compensation.


----------



## C_Lindbergh

clerkpalmer said:


> What’s the “Gbpro”?


Galaxy Buds pro


----------



## clerkpalmer

tinyman392 said:


> Neutral or Harman? I think RTings uses the Harman curve vs the DF Neutral curve for their compensation.


Here is what they have to say:

Our headphone target response is a hybrid; it follows the Harman target response in the bass and mid ranges, but its treble range is based on the Diffuse Field response of the HMS. This is because the Harman target response was derived using a dummy head different from the one used by us, and therefore its treble range, which includes the ear resonances, doesn't match the ear resonances of our dummy head. Our target response for in-ear headphones has an additional 5dB of boost in the bass range, compared to our target for over/on-ears.


----------



## davidcotton

Anyone tried custom ear tips with tws?  Main issues would be having to swop out the tips for the charging case.


----------



## davidcotton

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Reference set is all hooked up and ready to go. Man, this whole kit is tiny. So hard to believe everything fits in the neoprene case with plenty of room to spare.
> 
> ​After having gone the TWS gamut for a couple weeks now, there's something strangely simple and satisfying about these. I have buttons...3 of them...and they do what they're supposed to do. I don't have to remember how many taps do this or that...and there's something about that simplicity that's just infectious. And while I know it's a far cry from being able to put the words "true" and "wireless" together, the overall experience is pretty darn close. Lightweight as the adapter is, it ends up being negligent if you use the packed-in clips. At that point, my sweatshirt holds the brunt of that weight and I no longer even feel the wires there unless I crane my neck. The fit is plenty secure and I'm lucky that my ear canals are large enough that I don't experience discomfort from the IEM cans.
> 
> ...


Was going to ask about other iems.  Got a pair of campfire audio comets and was just idly wondering if they would fit?


----------



## Caipirina

clerkpalmer said:


> What’s the “Gbpro”?


Galaxy Buds Pro


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

davidcotton said:


> Was going to ask about other iems.  Got a pair of campfire audio comets and was just idly wondering if they would fit?


Technically, yes, but the MMCX adapter is keyed so the IEM barrels don't rotate. That might cause issues for your Comets. Fiio makes an around-neck model that would probably be more ideal for your use case.


----------



## Luke Skywalker

DeepSouth said:


> Good to know. I like JHA Layla and A18t. I like CF andromeda but it's a little too fatiguing, and I like the sure se846.
> The flimsy silicone eartips have fit issues. I have a wide yet flat/narrow ear canal. Foam tips do ok, not great.
> Bose's quiet comfort 15 or whatever the 3.5 plug in version with attached battery had a perfect fit in-ear, but the sound wasn't very clear. I wonder what the new bose sounds like.
> The airpod pro has a great sound for the convenience factor and price, but the bass/seal is too fickle, and both earpieces failed at different times under warranty due to a crackle sound.
> The cambridge appears to have the silicone that gives me fit issues. I'd go the snugz route, but I'd have to dismount every time I want to charge.


I haven't heard the Layla, however the closest to my JH Lola in sound are the KEF mu3's.  I'd say the second closest in sound are the NUARL N6Ps


----------



## Luke Skywalker

miserybeforethemusic said:


> I'm eternally lucky that my wife chose makeup for a hobby. Makes it really easy to draw parallels when I ask her why she needs 500 brushes (or, worse, one $500 brush) or that new independently-made palette that sold out faster on Instagram than Halen tickets did with a physical box office in the 80s.
> 
> We have discussed what I spend on gear three times in our 15+ years of marriage; each conversation never made it past 5 minutes before we realized we're both too far in the rabbit hole to take shots across the bow.


Yeah right, or a couple hundred pairs of shoes when the wife has 2 feet?  I have 3 pair of shoes - sneaks, black dress shoes, hiking boots.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic (Mar 19, 2021)

Luke Skywalker said:


> Yeah right, or a couple hundred pairs of shoes when the wife has 2 feet?  I have 3 pair of shoes - sneaks, black dress shoes, hiking boots.


Wait, there's more types of shoes than "work" and "not work?" Oh man, that explains a lot.

Today's deal that came across my email ($90 in lieu of $150):
https://drop.com/buy/soundcore-liberty-2-pro-true-wireless-iem

Price is fair; would be a nice alternative if you found the stem on the LA2P was too much. Personally, I didn't mind it at all. Just don't take this as an endorsement of Drop. Caveat emptor if you choose to order.


----------



## bladefd

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Wait, there's more types of shoes than "work" and "not work?" Oh man, that explains a lot.
> 
> Today's deal that came across my email ($90 in lieu of $150):
> https://drop.com/buy/soundcore-liberty-2-pro-true-wireless-iem
> ...


Looks massive but looks like good price. Probably a bit risky buy without any reviews though


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

bladefd said:


> Looks massive but looks like good price. Probably a bit risky buy without any reviews though


They're not new to the market, just new to Drop. These were Soundcore's flagship TWS before the Liberty Air 2 Pro were released last month. Reviews are mixed, but it's another option out there for people who want a dual-driver TWS.


----------



## Windmolinos

Hello all!
I'm looking for an open tws. I don't want airpods so I'm deciding between:

JBL tune 225tws

vivo tws neo

OnePlus buds


Anyone has references of them?
Thanks!


----------



## Mouseman

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Wait, there's more types of shoes than "work" and "not work?" Oh man, that explains a lot.
> 
> Today's deal that came across my email ($90 in lieu of $150):
> https://drop.com/buy/soundcore-liberty-2-pro-true-wireless-iem
> ...


I have a pair, and with the app to EQ they're pretty much my favorite. But they don't have any advanced like ANC or ambient, so the "original" price is a bit high now.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

Mouseman said:


> I have a pair, and with the app to EQ they're pretty much my favorite. But they don't have any advanced like ANC or ambient, so the "original" price is a bit high now.


Figured it lost its value proposition by this point. Aside from driver count (and SQ, objectively speaking), the Liberty Air 2 Pro have dethroned it on the Soundcore lineup.


----------



## erockg

Okay @miserybeforethemusic.  I got my UE Fits today and man, the new AC/DC album sounds great.  Phone calls are working great.  Zero issues.  Sound is clean.  Slightly EQ'd the bass.  Soundstage is wide enough.  What are your EQ settings?  Still wish they had more tap controls, but the fit... oh the fit.  I got these for $199 (they price matched a sale price) with a free Wonderboom 2 that will go the eBay route.  At the end of the day, that IMO is a STEAL.


----------



## dj24 (Mar 19, 2021)

miserybeforethemusic said:


> I don't usually think about Jabra, either. I almost forgot to recommend them, but maybe the EA75t's fun tuning helps. Still surprises me that I find myself reaching for them more than the 85t during the workday, even on days where I know I won't be taking any calls.


I agree with you.  A bit of tinkering in the sound+ app where you lower the base a a smidge or two and increase the mids and treble a bit and they sound great...

I'm probably in the minority here but one thing that's not talked about as much about TWS is long term comfort.  I'm on constant non stop Cisco jabber VOIP work calls 8-10 hours straight with one or maybe two 20 minute breaks during my entire shift.  We are "definitely not there yet" if you're me once you get to the 5-6 hour mark and your ears start feeling like someone is bench pressing on them.  The 75t Active is the first TWS that I have owned that are truly comfortable for my loong work marathon call sessions and even then I initially almost gave up on them when I first tried them on.  The quality of their stock silicone tips (although a perfect fit for me in the smallest size) are just horrendous and a calling for an immediate allergy reaction/ ear infection.  Those things itch and burn like you would never imagine possible once you get to the 4 hour mark.  The crazy thing is that they feel excellent for the first 3 hours or so.  What the hell is that about?  I almost sent them back when luckily I saw @ AudioNoob post a link to his 75t review on this thread recommending the Spinfit 360s and 1025s for them.  I got the 360s and with them they feel as smooth as silk for the entire 8-10 hours I have them on and  haven't looked back since then.

Fun fact.  Most TWS manufacturers truly exaggerate when they list the specs for their battery life.  For my work call scenario they're usually off by about 1-2 hours.  The 75t Active's truly live up to their 7.5 hour mark and I've actually managed to squeeze an extra 8-10 minutes on top of that a few times.  They are truly a swiss army knife that excel at everything you throw at them.  Their multipoint is the gold standard when it comes to handling VOIP and regular cell networks without dropping either one of them. I also usually run about 5 miles a day after work and their IP57 rating is flawless.  I sweat excessively and unfortunately for me everything goes down the side of my head and my ears right into them.  I've lost count of the number of IPX7 TWS (mostly Chi-fi) where they've stopped working only after 4-5 months due to sweat degradation and minerals/ oils affecting them over time.  8 months in and the 75t Active's still look and sound brand new.   In fact there was an ebay code a few days ago ( didn't last very long) that dropped their price down to just $57 that I managed to get on and order an extra set.  These ones will strictly be for work and I'll relegate my current ones to outside use and my workouts.  I feel like I've committed highway robbery by getting these at such a ridiculous price and suggest everyone grab one without thinking about it too much if they go back down in the $60 range.

I know there are a few people here lurking and waiting for the mighty all in one and I say to all of you look no further for now.  For their current $75 asking price *here* @ target and just $85 for the same version but with wireless charging- they do it all.  Good to great sound quality (not excellent or close to current reference TWS by any means), reference multipoint and excellent battery life, true IP57 protection for running and swimming (yes, I've done that), Excellent call quality (reference once you add the jabra link 370/ 380 to the mix if you use a computer for music or work calls), good ANC, very good hear through, reference app customization and likewise for both the left/ right earbuds.  The downsides that I can think of are just far and few.  Left earbud is a slave to the right one so not independent by itself (I never understood why this is a big deal for most people if you can use the right one), bloated bass (which I truly believe is one that applies to the regular 75t and not to the slightly differently tuned 75t active which while is still much out of the box is definitely not bloated and can be tamed in the sound+ app) and finally the amount of refurbs floating out there.  This last one is frankly one I have no answer for.  I can only speculate that quality control is an issue when they're brand new or people like to abuse the return process.  I'm sure it honestly falls somewhere between the two.  At the same time I have bought 12-15 or so of these for coworkers, family and friends (all Jabra refurbs) all within the last few months and not one has gone bad so far. If you're worried about this just purchase them online @ Target and return them in store within 30 days no questions asked.  Oh yeah and currently Jabra automatically upgrades your warranty from 6 months for the refurbs to a full 2 years if you register them in the sound core app.

Enough said.  I'm starting to sound like a kid who just discovered candy for the first time


----------



## chinmie

dj24 said:


> I agree with you.  A bit of tinkering in the sound+ app where you lower the base a a smidge or two and increase the mids and treble a bit and they sound great...
> 
> I'm probably in the minority here but one thing that's not talked about as much about TWS is long term comfort.  I'm on constant non stop Cisco jabber VOIP work calls 8-10 hours straight with one or maybe two 20 minute breaks during my entire shift.  We are "definitely not there yet" if you're me once you get to the 5-6 hour mark and your ears start feeling like someone is bench pressing on them.  The 75t Active is the first TWS that I have owned that are truly comfortable for my loong work marathon call sessions and even then I initially almost gave up on them when I first tried them on.  The quality of their stock silicone tips (although a perfect fit for me in the smallest size) are just horrendous and a calling for an immediate allergy reaction/ ear infection.  Those things itch and burn like you would never imagine possible once you get to the 4 hour mark.  The crazy thing is that they feel excellent for the first 3 hours or so.  What the hell is that about?  I almost sent them back when luckily I saw @ AudioNoob post a link to his 75t review on this thread recommending the Spinfit 360s and 1025s for them.  I got the 360s and with them they feel as smooth as silk for the entire 8-10 hours I have them on and  haven't looked back since then.
> 
> ...



for me, open air earbuds are the best for long sessions, and my current favorites are the Sabbats (X12 and Vooplay) and the Vivo TWS Neo. i run and skate only around my neighborhood though, which is not too many cars passing by and generally not too noisy. 

silicone tipped TWS, no matter how comfortable they are, seems to make my ears sweat after more than one hour of use, so i need to take a break with them from time to time. 
I'm curious about adding the Gbuds Live to my collection, but i think i would wait for the next gen open TWS with longer battery life


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

erockg said:


> Okay @miserybeforethemusic.  I got my UE Fits today and man, the new AC/DC album sounds great.  Phone calls are working great.  Zero issues.  Sound is clean.  Slightly EQ'd the bass.  Soundstage is wide enough.  What are your EQ settings?  Still wish they had more tap controls, but the fit... oh the fit.  I got these for $199 (they price matched a sale price) with a free Wonderboom 2 that will go the eBay route.  At the end of the day, that IMO is a STEAL.


Yeah, you made out like a bandit on that deal. Honestly, I haven't changed it fro. UE Signature since I got the new tips. That's honestly good enough for me.

If you want to be more daring, I'd opt for any of the "SoundID"-likes out there, but I'm more than happy with this thing as is.


----------



## pkcpga

Started a collection of wireless buds, Sony WF-1000XM3, Sennheiser Momentum True 2 and Noble Falcon Pro.
Out of the three best out of box sound was the Sony, Sennheiser was better when equalized (hifi mode) and Noble was much better when equalized.  
Ranked
1. Noble’s out of the box sound pretty meh, plenty of detail but very V shaped with recessed vocals.  Luckily Noble app has the best equalizer out of all of the ones I’ve tried.  And the equalizer setting stays saved with the IEMs so when switching from my phone to Fiio m15 or iPad or A&K, my settings are all saved.  Not the case on the Sennheiser’s.  The Noble’s require the most playing with the EQ but once set they are drastically more detailed, better bass control and better dynamics then the other two.  Noble includes the newest Apt X which when used with the m15 sounds great, much better sub bass, dynamic bass, more details and air in highs.  I’m sure having BA for highs helps with the dynamic driver for lows, the vocals due have a BA which is both good and bad.  It’s a modern BA so timbre is pretty good but the Sennheiser is definitely the best of the 3 for vocals.  Noble’s mids need a bunch of EQ to sound textured and less thin.  Also dropping the 4K EQ to get rid of sibilance.  Although after EQ it is definitely the best of the group.
2. Sennheiser again only ok out of the box, but once EQ they sound good.  They have best vocals of the three.  The vocals are clear and warm, not as detailed as the Noble, but they have a great timbre.  The mids do require a bit of EQ to sound best, since once again a very V shaped IEM.  The bass can easily be tamed and pleasant but has no where near the speed of the Noble or the texture and detail of the Noble in the low end.  Sennheiser again has very pleasant  highs but they roll off quickly and not nearly as detailed as the Noble’s or even the Sony.  Sennheiser’s timing was a bit off, but still enjoyable just not toe tapping.  Overall I liked the Sennheiser over the Sony for vocals and fit.
3. Sony’s I liked least, even though they sounded best out of the box.  Once again a theme all V shaped out of the box.  Sony app did not include a way to EQ this, my biggest issue.  The vocals or mids are dry, lifeless.  Bass was a bit more boom then I like but was mostly controlled.  The highs were extended and fairly detailed, can get sibilant.  Timing and dynamics were better then the Sennheiser but a little behind the Noble’s.  The only real reason I returned the Sony after a week was fit and dry mids that  very lacking to me.

Sennheiser are the most comfortable for me with the Noble’s and Sony’s falling a bit behind.  Noble’s need a deep fit to have good bass and can create some pressure.  Sony’s are heavier, old shaped and I tend to have a hard time keeping them in place if I’m moving around.  Sennheiser’s are not the smallest, Nobles, but are shaped well and easily sit in my ear.  

For features, Sony’s noise canceling was best, Noble has none, Sennheiser’s didn’t really do much.  App’s Noble app didn’t always find the falcon’s but had the best EQ by far.  Sennheiser EQ was basic and helped but would have liked more control.  Sony needs to include a custom EQ option.  Noble latest Apt X definitely shined with flac and master quality songs, better lows and highs.  Which in aac there definitely is less detail and control presuming from missing info.  Unfortunately Noble’s app only works with location on, so only on phones and not on either of my daps so EQing needs to be done on your phone, luckily the falcons hold their settings until changed again.  Sony could be a winner with a little app refresh just felt in need of an update.  Sennheiser and Noble both have full customization of taps for commands in the app.  

I chose to keep the Noble’s for my needs, comfort and sound quality.  Far from perfect or a wired iem but best option I’ve tried so far.  The Noble’s definitely have better bass control and more detail with good timing.  The Wizard must have drunk when tuning these but they take EQ easily and well.  Out of three, the Noble’s are the only ones where drums sound like drums, not thumps and small details are not completely lost.  You can still hear artists breaths and guitar strings have an edge.  The other two lose micro dynamic and small details.  Although when using Apple aac you lose some of this edge Apt X adaptive with 5.2.  

Any others I should try?  I’m not a bass head, my favorite headphones are LCD 4’s, Verite Closed, Stellia, Utopia and A12t.


----------



## dweaver

pkcpga said:


> Started a collection of wireless buds, Sony WF-1000XM3, Sennheiser Momentum True 2 and Noble Falcon Pro.
> Out of the three best out of box sound was the Sony, Sennheiser was better when equalized (hifi mode) and Noble was much better when equalized.
> Ranked
> 1. Noble’s out of the box sound pretty meh, plenty of detail but very V shaped with recessed vocals.  Luckily Noble app has the best equalizer out of all of the ones I’ve tried.  And the equalizer setting stays saved with the IEMs so when switching from my phone to Fiio m15 or iPad or A&K, my settings are all saved.  Not the case on the Sennheiser’s.  The Noble’s require the most playing with the EQ but once set they are drastically more detailed, better bass control and better dynamics then the other two.  Noble includes the newest Apt X which when used with the m15 sounds great, much better sub bass, dynamic bass, more details and air in highs.  I’m sure having BA for highs helps with the dynamic driver for lows, the vocals due have a BA which is both good and bad.  It’s a modern BA so timbre is pretty good but the Sennheiser is definitely the best of the 3 for vocals.  Noble’s mids need a bunch of EQ to sound textured and less thin.  Also dropping the 4K EQ to get rid of sibilance.  Although after EQ it is definitely the best of the group.
> ...


You might like the AZ70, good sub bass, more midrange / treble leaning.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

pkcpga said:


> Any others I should try?  I’m not a bass head, my favorite headphones are LCD 4’s, Verite Closed, Stellia, Utopia and A12t.


I'm pretty partial to the UE FITS if you're willing to dial EQ in like your did with the Noble. For a pair you might be able to toss around a bit and worry less about, I'd consider the Cambridge Melomania Touch. They're far from the resolving, detailed, technical beasts in your repertoire, but they have a unique character on their own and would be one of my go-to recommendations for a gym pair. Not bass monsters, either; just warm and unapologetically British.


dj24 said:


> I agree with you.  A bit of tinkering in the sound+ app where you lower the base a a smidge or two and increase the mids and treble a bit and they sound great...
> 
> I'm probably in the minority here but one thing that's not talked about as much about TWS is long term comfort.  I'm on constant non stop Cisco jabber VOIP work calls 8-10 hours straight with one or maybe two 20 minute breaks during my entire shift.  We are "definitely not there yet" if you're me once you get to the 5-6 hour mark and your ears start feeling like someone is bench pressing on them.  The 75t Active is the first TWS that I have owned that are truly comfortable for my loong work marathon call sessions and even then I initially almost gave up on them when I first tried them on.  The quality of their stock silicone tips (although a perfect fit for me in the smallest size) are just horrendous and a calling for an immediate allergy reaction/ ear infection.  Those things itch and burn like you would never imagine possible once you get to the 4 hour mark.  The crazy thing is that they feel excellent for the first 3 hours or so.  What the hell is that about?  I almost sent them back when luckily I saw @ AudioNoob post a link to his 75t review on this thread recommending the Spinfit 360s and 1025s for them.  I got the 360s and with them they feel as smooth as silk for the entire 8-10 hours I have them on and  haven't looked back since then.
> 
> ...


Said it better than I could myself. The praise is well-deserved. I honestly favor these over the 85t most workdays.


----------



## pkcpga

dweaver said:


> You might like the AZ70, good sub bass, more midrange / treble leaning.


You might like the EQ capabilities of the Noble’s and it works very well with very noticeable sound changes even just 1 or 2 dbs.  Looked up the AZ70, sound signature sounds good, too bad no Apt X hd or adaptive.


----------



## C_Lindbergh

I'm really not a bass-head, but I must say I really like how the CA Melomania touch handles the low-end... It just sounds so smooth and clear.


----------



## SoundChoice

Caipirina said:


> To Jabra or not to Jabra? 75 or 85? Runner's thud or pressure relief vents ...   so many questions.
> Ever since the Jabra Elite sport, my very first TWS, I have not gotten really into any of the other offerings .. but I keep reading so much between the lines, like 75 have a more 'fun' tuning, and now thanks FW they can do ANC as well? The 85 on the other hand have really kick ass ANC? Some sites say the 85 are 'semi in ear' and have pressure relief valves / vents, so does that mean there's no runner's thud?
> 
> Having a chance here to get a set of the 85 locally, and trying to get that done before they adjust the price (the way local currency performs to USD, I have seen that i.e. that Bose set I recently bought now is 50-60$ more expensive, similar for the Galaxy Buds Pro)
> ...


Bought the 85t, not the 75 or G buds pro, so I’ll focus on what I have.

Yes, the Jabra has something that looks and feels like a semi on-ear, in that there is no way for me and my larger ear holes to get a seal.. and they have oval nozzles that won’t take many tips. But the eureka moment was with the MyFit with the app. It was impossible to get the L stock oval to give me passes, even with jamming it into my ear. Then, when I changed to my go-to LL silicones, it gave OKs and a great seal and sound. So based on the Jabra app, it wants a seal like an in-ear.

Yes, with the above, the ANC is *that* good. To me a hair better than Apollo Bold, and about the same as Sony XM3.

The tuning is not bass heavy like the Apollos, but the app lets you EQ them.

To me, the Jabra 85t ticks almost all the boxes. Comfort, Transparency, ANC, volume control on the IEM. Pro feel. The sound signature could be closer to the Urbanfuns, which I like.

The MT is mostly blah, to compare. updated firmware, can’t get the sub bass to sound like the XM3. They still needed a reset due to connection issue. Almost impossble to get large nonstock tips into box. Hassle to fuss with R bud to get into case. Every. Single. Time. For me, the Fiil T1XS is a similar but better. I’ll probably return the MT. Sorry, I know it gets a lot of love

Jabra is becoming my regular daily earbud.

I hope this helps.


----------



## Windmolinos

chinmie said:


> for me, open air earbuds are the best for long sessions, and my current favorites are the Sabbats (X12 and Vooplay) and the Vivo TWS Neo. i run and skate only around my neighborhood though, which is not too many cars passing by and generally not too noisy.
> 
> silicone tipped TWS, no matter how comfortable they are, seems to make my ears sweat after more than one hour of use, so i need to take a break with them from time to time.
> I'm curious about adding the Gbuds Live to my collection, but i think i would wait for the next gen open TWS with longer battery life


Could you please make a quick sound quality review of the Vivo?


----------



## diimaan

To the JBL Club Pro+ owners, what type of tips fit these buds? 
Just pulled the plug on these for 149€!


----------



## chinmie

Windmolinos said:


> Could you please make a quick sound quality review of the Vivo?



for my slightly large ears, which usually use L size tips, the Vivo would be a bit loose, so the overall sound would be a bit thin because the reduced bass. but I'm using it with earbud foams, and the subbass can reach deep with it. 

the overall feel is closer to using IEMs: separation is good, mids and treble are clear, bass is emphasized on the subbass than the midbass. i have to make adjustments to the case so it can fit and still charge with foams attached. 

if you're using Vivo phones, you would have extra access to EQ and sound preset adjustments.


----------



## C_Lindbergh

Anyone knows what happened to the first Bowes and Wilkins TWS? Maybe supply issues given the pandemic? 

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Bowers-Wilkins-Cancelling-headphones-resolution-White/dp/B08H8486Y7


----------



## Careden (Mar 20, 2021)

A specific information about those TWS is hard to find for most:
Which ones do have a "good" equalizer app that saves the settings in the device itself allowing you to unpair them with the smartphone then pair them to whatever device without EQ software (TV, Laptop, ...) while keeping the saved android EQ settings active ?

I use Earfun Free Pro as some test device with a PC and EQ APO/Peace GUI (they don't have an app/eq). This worked better than I expected (with up to +8dB for the 2k-4k frequencies though).
And now I am looking for higher sound quality with it's own integrated EQ but I have been googling for like 2 weeks for the JBL Club Pro+ and Cambridge MTs without finding an answer (do the EQ settings from their app stay active when pairing to a non-smartphone device ?). JBL seems to have a very good EQ while the MTs have a more limited one (not sure about the +-dB EQ range for those).

The only TWS I am quite sure that keep their custom EQ settings when switching media player are Sennheiser CX 400BT/MTW2 (but quite limited EQ) and Soundcore/Anker (not the top rated for sound but never tested myself so who knows...).

Starting to get old and developing some hearing losses does not mean you have to give up on Audiophile devices IMHO, just that you have to be more cautious with the Maximum Volume. I still love my Audeze and Hifiman headphones 
Thank you !


----------



## Windmolinos

chinmie said:


> for my slightly large ears, which usually use L size tips, the Vivo would be a bit loose, so the overall sound would be a bit thin because the reduced bass. but I'm using it with earbud foams, and the subbass can reach deep with it.
> 
> the overall feel is closer to using IEMs: separation is good, mids and treble are clear, bass is emphasized on the subbass than the midbass. i have to make adjustments to the case so it can fit and still charge with foams attached.
> 
> if you're using Vivo phones, you would have extra access to EQ and sound preset adjustments.


Can I ask which earbud foams are you using with the Vivo?
Thanks!


----------



## diimaan (Mar 20, 2021)

Update on the KEF Mu3 ANC! I used the buds on local trains and it was able to cut off commuter noise most of the times and only the rumbling of trains I could feel. The ambience is alright while I was inside the train.
But when I took them out while biking, it gives the natural effect in wind noise, you feel the wind how it is if you are not wearing the buds and no unnecessary amplification like the GB+. That’s a positive for me


----------



## chinmie

Windmolinos said:


> Can I ask which earbud foams are you using with the Vivo?
> Thanks!



Hiegi full foams


----------



## diimaan

Luke Skywalker said:


> I haven't heard the Layla, however the closest to my JH Lola in sound are the KEF mu3's.  I'd say the second closest in sound are the NUARL N6Ps


Have you tried the mu3’s with N6P tips? For me the fit is more stable with Nuarl’s tips than KEF’s!


----------



## pkcpga

C_Lindbergh said:


> Anyone knows what happened to the first Bowes and Wilkins TWS? Maybe supply issues given the pandemic?
> 
> https://www.amazon.co.uk/Bowers-Wilkins-Cancelling-headphones-resolution-White/dp/B08H8486Y7


In the US, stores are taking preorders but they are called P15 not P17.  Same photo as supplied in your link but full details on them available if you look up P15, but no release date listed yet.  They also seem to not be running a new Bluetooth like 5.1 or 5.2 but 5.0 and also only Apt X not Apt X HD or the newest Apt X Adaptive.


----------



## alchemical (Mar 20, 2021)

pkcpga said:


> In the US, stores are taking preorders but they are called P15 not P17.  Same photo as supplied in your link but full details on them available if you look up P15, but no release date listed yet.  They also seem to not be running a new Bluetooth like 5.1 or 5.2 but 5.0 and also only Apt X not Apt X HD or the newest Apt X Adaptive.


Two different TW models from what I understand. The PI5 being a single dynamic driver, and the PI7 being a more expensive higher-end hybrid set-up of dynamic driver and balanced armature. There was a PI7 listing with full details on Bestbuy a couple of weeks ago, but it’s been taken down, I’m assuming at the request of B&W.

This Amazon NL listing has PI7 release date as 17 April.
https://www.amazon.nl/Bowers-Wilkins-Cancelling-hoofdtelefoon-verbinding/dp/B08H8486Y7

EDIT: Here’s a link I found from a different site with a pic of the PI7 and dual driver details, as was previously on Bestbuy:
https://slankit.com/products/bowers...-cancelling-in-ear-headphones-charcoal-162620

The PI7 is Bluetooth 5.0 with AptX Adaptive


----------



## pkcpga

alchemical said:


> Two different TW models from what I understand. The PI5 being a single dynamic driver, and the PI7 being a more expensive higher-end hybrid set-up of dynamic driver and balanced armature. There was a PI7 listing with full details on Bestbuy a couple of weeks ago, but it’s been taken down, I’m assuming at the request of B&W.
> 
> This Amazon NL listing has PI7 release date as 17 April.
> https://www.amazon.nl/Bowers-Wilkins-Cancelling-hoofdtelefoon-verbinding/dp/B08H8486Y7
> ...


Interesting just asked Crutchfield, they list the p15 and believe it’s being released within the next 30 days.  While the p17 Crutchfield removed from preorder and the customer service rep I just talked to did not know why.  The p17 is definitely interesting, being a hybrid like the Noble Falcon Pro and Apt X Adaptive.  Hopefully with better Bluetooth formats like Apt X HD and Adaptive we’ll start seeing more interesting hybrid iems with a fuller more detailed range.  I wonder if Apple is going to improve aac since it definitely does not sound as good as apt x hd/adaptive.  Certainly be easier for me to be able to just use my phone over dap.


----------



## Canabuc

pkcpga said:


> Started a collection of wireless buds, Sony WF-1000XM3, Sennheiser Momentum True 2 and Noble Falcon Pro.
> Out of the three best out of box sound was the Sony, Sennheiser was better when equalized (hifi mode) and Noble was much better when equalized.
> Ranked
> 1. Noble’s out of the box sound pretty meh, plenty of detail but very V shaped with recessed vocals.  Luckily Noble app has the best equalizer out of all of the ones I’ve tried.  And the equalizer setting stays saved with the IEMs so when switching from my phone to Fiio m15 or iPad or A&K, my settings are all saved.  Not the case on the Sennheiser’s.  The Noble’s require the most playing with the EQ but once set they are drastically more detailed, better bass control and better dynamics then the other two.  Noble includes the newest Apt X which when used with the m15 sounds great, much better sub bass, dynamic bass, more details and air in highs.  I’m sure having BA for highs helps with the dynamic driver for lows, the vocals due have a BA which is both good and bad.  It’s a modern BA so timbre is pretty good but the Sennheiser is definitely the best of the 3 for vocals.  Noble’s mids need a bunch of EQ to sound textured and less thin.  Also dropping the 4K EQ to get rid of sibilance.  Although after EQ it is definitely the best of the group.
> ...



Great post agree with most of what you said about Sony and Sennheiser. Sony so does allow custom EQ however. There are 2 custom and 1 manual setting in addition to the presets.


----------



## pkcpga

Canabuc said:


> Great post agree with most of what you said about Sony and Sennheiser. Sony so does allow custom EQ however. There are 2 custom and 1 manual setting in addition to the presets.


Really, damn I only noticed the presets on the Apple app.  Is it a detailed EQ? Like 8 or 10 way or just 3 or 4 way like Sennheiser’s.


----------



## Canabuc (Mar 20, 2021)

miserybeforethemusic said:


> I'm pretty partial to the UE FITS if you're willing to dial EQ in like your did with the Noble. For a pair you might be able to toss around a bit and worry less about, I'd consider the Cambridge Melomania Touch. They're far from the resolving, detailed, technical beasts in your repertoire, but they have a unique character on their own and would be one of my go-to recommendations for a gym pair. Not bass monsters, either; just warm and unapologetically British.
> 
> Said it better than I could myself. The praise is well-deserved. I honestly favor these over the 85t most workdays.



I'm loving The Cambridge Melomania Touch. Especially after latest firmware, the Treble detail and highs are better and the bass is less boomy with better texture. I much preferred is overall sound to the Sony and the Sennheiser. It only lacks ANC and has a few quirks or it would be the perfect earbud.

If you want something to try that has a fantastic feature set and with some Separate EQ can should really great too look at the freebuds pro.

Been using them alot this past week and they have great ANC, full controls, stable fit, great case with Qi charging.
Sound of of the box is warm and mids centric with Treble too rolled off. After playing with wavelet EQ on Android and boosting the highs and lowering the mids a fraction with another tiny boost in the sub bass ( though truthfully only the Treble was needed), they really round great. They have a great soundstage better than the Sony and best equal with the MTW2.
Bass is tighter than the Sony and Sennheiser.
Treble detail after EQ is actually better than I thought. 



This song just after the 1 minute mark, had some cymbals playing on the left. A gentle repetitive hit. On most TWS I find they can't resolve the different tonal character of each one except the 3rd hit which is lower frequency.

The only 3 buds I have tried that do are the Sony Sennheiser and Huawei. I was shocked.  JBL even with us great EQ couldn't, the 75t, 85t neither. Technics I returned prior to testing so can't comment. Even the MT whose sound signature I really like don't quite get there.

In any case right now they are the best ANC tws with good sound for me but with EQ. Best combo of fit,sound,  comfort and features. While they don't have official IP rating I have heard reviewers who reached out to Huawei who told them it is splash resistant so likely minimum ipx2 or4 level. And I was amazed how secure they were in my ears working out.

Multi pairing is great feature too and only the Jabras can claim that too unless you are all in in Apple ecosystem. Unlike Hebrew you can use either buds independently.

My search is over between them and the MT to meet all my needs. Coming down the pipe, I don't see much outside of the time xm4, or maybe a retooled Devialet Gemini.

The Kef reportedly has weak ANC so see no reason to get over anything else in that tier.

Have not heard the falcon pros, but truthfully for my budget, I don't want to spend that much on something that has a short lifespan. Over ear headphones have much better longevity often with replaceable batteries or a wire to use them wired so even if the technology is passed over you can still have the sound. TWS, have 2 to 3 years before battery degradation, and the technology changes so rapidly given the differing needs as they are used in the gym, commuting the workplace as well as home so that the features of IP rating, ANC and ambient etc are different than something used at home.


----------



## pkcpga

Canabuc said:


> I serving The Cambridge Melomania Touch. Especially after latest firmware, the Treble detail and highs are better and the bass is less boomy with better texture. I much preferred is overall sound to the Sony and the Sennheiser. It only lacks ANC and has a few quirks or it would be the perfect earbud.
> 
> If you want something to try that has a fantastic feature set and with some Separate EQ can should really great too look at the freebuds pro.
> 
> ...



The Noble Falcon Pro’s pick up the cymbals very well from soft to firmer hits, starting at 1:07-08.  They also pick up the light clicking sound and the singers breath.  The reason I’ve been a bit surprised by the hybrid design of the Falcon pro’s granted out of the box they badly need EQ.  Even in stairway to heaven, Led Zeppelin remastered Flac HR they pick up him gently tapping his guitar at 16-17 seconds in, which the Sennheiser’s and Sony’s didn’t pick up at all.  Cambridge are cheap, I’ll have to order one to try.


----------



## pkcpga (Mar 20, 2021)

Canabuc said:


> I serving The Cambridge Melomania Touch. Especially after latest firmware, the Treble detail and highs are better and the bass is less boomy with better texture. I much preferred is overall sound to the Sony and the Sennheiser. It only lacks ANC and has a few quirks or it would be the perfect earbud.
> 
> If you want something to try that has a fantastic feature set and with some Separate EQ can should really great too look at the freebuds pro.
> 
> ...



With the update are the Cambridge Audio Apt X HD or Adaptive or only standard?  After hearing the difference not sure I want to buy one with older technology.  Personally don’t like ANC on most they add a static sound that I can’t stand.  I switch to comply foam tips and usually block enough outside sound for me.


----------



## Caipirina

SoundChoice said:


> Jabra is becoming my regular daily earbud.
> 
> I hope this helps.


It does! Thanks!


----------



## X-Nemesis

Are there any low profile tips that are made of the same material as the xelastec brand?


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

diimaan said:


> To the JBL Club Pro+ owners, what type of tips fit these buds?
> Just pulled the plug on these for 149€!


I've used SpinFit CP360 and the Final TWS tips. Prefer the stock ones as the changes to sound signature were negligible and they already have a really robust in-app EQ to tame any peaks. Don't think it's necessary, though.


C_Lindbergh said:


> Anyone knows what happened to the first Bowes and Wilkins TWS? Maybe supply issues given the pandemic?
> 
> https://www.amazon.co.uk/Bowers-Wilkins-Cancelling-headphones-resolution-White/dp/B08H8486Y7


I think B&W jumped the shark and announced too early. PI7 probably got held up in development.


pkcpga said:


> The Noble Falcon Pro’s pick up the cymbals very well from soft to firmer hits, starting at 1:07-08.  They also pick up the light clicking sound and the singers breath.  The reason I’ve been a bit surprised by the hybrid design of the Falcon pro’s granted out of the box they badly need EQ.  Even in stairway to heaven, Led Zeppelin remastered Flac HR they pick up him gently tapping his guitar at 16-17 seconds in, which the Sennheiser’s and Sony’s didn’t pick up at all.  Cambridge are cheap, I’ll have to order one to try.


The Cambridge won't resolve to the same degree as the Noble. Then again, that's comparing a single Dynamic Driver to a hybrid setup...not quite a fair comparison. That being said, I have both and would rather listen to the Cambridge for extended periods. Not only are they more comfortable in terms of fit, I think they're less fatiguing long-term.
That being said, I'd love to see what EQ you ended up with. If I can ever get the app to see my Pros on load, I'd love to test it myself.


pkcpga said:


> With the update are the Cambridge Audio Apt X HD or Adaptive or only standard?  After hearing the difference not sure I want to buy one with older technology.  Personally don’t like ANC on most they add a static sound that I can’t stand.  I switch to comply foam tips and usually block enough outside sound for me.


I got caught up the codec wars for a while, but have learned that implementation matters. AptX Adaptive is only available on limited chipsets. If your device didn't support it (and I'm pretty sure the M15 does not), then you'll revert to aptX/HD/LL anyway. My phone does provide support, but the app tends not to, and I find multiple instances of LL-Noble FalconPro in my devices list if I attempt to use the app, causing my phone to be confused about which device it needs to output signal to.
If you're using an iDevice, be happy with AAC because you don't get aptX anyway; at least the codec has been updated/optimized for the device anyway and it's similar to aptX in throughput at this point. SBC still lags the pack, though.
Long story short, the codec wars are a bit silly. Yes, there are some cases where I can detect codec artifacts (the Technics using AAC on Android was one of them), but even that can vary from device to device.


----------



## Canabuc

pkcpga said:


> Really, damn I only noticed the presets on the Apple app.  Is it a detailed EQ? Like 8 or 10 way or just 3 or 4 way like Sennheiser’s.


6 band I think


----------



## pkcpga

miserybeforethemusic said:


> I've used SpinFit CP360 and the Final TWS tips. Prefer the stock ones as the changes to sound signature were negligible and they already have a really robust in-app EQ to tame any peaks. Don't think it's necessary, though.
> 
> I think B&W jumped the shark and announced too early. PI7 probably got held up in development.
> 
> ...


I’ll send you my settings, for the Fiio m15 with Tidal and Qobuz they both show Apt X HD on the Fiio.  Apt X Adaptive just means it can switch between LL/HD/Dynamic depending on the situation, it adapts and uses what works best.  Strangely with downloaded music on Fiio through the Fiio music player it just shows AptX with their symbol, so might just be standard, no idea what the symbol stands for.


----------



## Canabuc

pkcpga said:


> The Noble Falcon Pro’s pick up the cymbals very well from soft to firmer hits, starting at 1:07-08.  They also pick up the light clicking sound and the singers breath.  The reason I’ve been a bit surprised by the hybrid design of the Falcon pro’s granted out of the box they badly need EQ.  Even in stairway to heaven, Led Zeppelin remastered Flac HR they pick up him gently tapping his guitar at 16-17 seconds in, which the Sennheiser’s and Sony’s didn’t pick up at all.  Cambridge are cheap, I’ll have to order one to try.


. 

I think I heard that little tap in the right earbuds on both the freebuds pro and the MT. Was it just once or more?


----------



## Canabuc

pkcpga said:


> With the update are the Cambridge Audio Apt X HD or Adaptive or only standard?  After hearing the difference not sure I want to buy one with older technology.  Personally don’t like ANC on most they add a static sound that I can’t stand.  I switch to comply foam tips and usually block enough outside sound for me.



Just APTX but they have a higher performance mode which sounds better. They apparently have a better quality amp in them than most earbud. They definitely get louder!


----------



## Canabuc

SoundChoice said:


> Bought the 85t, not the 75 or G buds pro, so I’ll focus on what I have.
> 
> Yes, the Jabra has something that looks and feels like a semi on-ear, in that there is no way for me and my larger ear holes to get a seal.. and they have oval nozzles that won’t take many tips. But the eureka moment was with the MyFit with the app. It was impossible to get the L stock oval to give me passes, even with jamming it into my ear. Then, when I changed to my go-to LL silicones, it gave OKs and a great seal and sound. So based on the Jabra app, it wants a seal like an in-ear.
> 
> ...



Different ears hear different things I guess. Sony sub bass for me is non existent and its mod bass is a bit overdone and boomy. The MT have much better sub bass. You can really feel it. 85t somewhere in between.


----------



## Canabuc

diimaan said:


> To the JBL Club Pro+ owners, what type of tips fit these buds?
> Just pulled the plug on these for 149€!



Never found a perfect tip for them to be honest. Closest for me were the ones from my soundcore Liberty 2 pro. Everything else was too lose and any amount of head shake they would  loosen up.


----------



## pkcpga

Canabuc said:


> .
> 
> I think I heard that little tap in the right earbuds on both the freebuds pro and the MT. Was it just once or more?


Once at 16-17 then again around 30.  With the Sennheiser, I definitely didn’t hear it, sounds like a static noise with the Sennheiser.  The Sennheiser mushes micro dynamics too much and has a strong roll off.  Pleasant sound but very rolled off.  My wife kept the Sennheiser because she loves electric/dance/rap/pop music.  The Sennheiser replaced her Jabre 75t from last year.  These are my first real go at wireless since even over ear ones I’ve tried I’ve cringed at when hearing.  I’ve tried dongle plugs for my 64 Audios but the static noise is very apparent when doing that.  Hoping technology keeps advancing because they really are convenient when your doing something or working out.


----------



## Canabuc

Careden said:


> A specific information about those TWS is hard to find for most:
> Which ones do have a "good" equalizer app that saves the settings in the device itself allowing you to unpair them with the smartphone then pair them to whatever device without EQ software (TV, Laptop, ...) while keeping the saved android EQ settings active ?
> 
> I use Earfun Free Pro as some test device with a PC and EQ APO/Peace GUI (they don't have an app/eq). This worked better than I expected (with up to +8dB for the 2k-4k frequencies though).
> ...



JBL Sony Soundcore all have very good apps. Melomania Touch is quite good too. All make noticeable changes to the sound and are save to the earbud so will apply regardless of device connected.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

pkcpga said:


> I’ll send you my settings, for the Fiio m15 with Tidal and Qobuz they both show Apt X HD on the Fiio.  Apt X Adaptive just means it can switch between LL/HD/Dynamic depending on the situation, it adapts and uses what works best.  Strangely with downloaded music on Fiio through the Fiio music player it just shows AptX with their symbol, so might just be standard, no idea what the symbol stands for.


There's some extra provisions to aptX Adaptive, but it's really getting into the weeds on the white papers. Agreed that it is backwards-compatible with the codecs you mentioned. Good thing it is, because they've got some wrinkles to iron out, in my experience. I've got a set of Edifier TWS1 Pro coming in that also support Adaptive, so I'll be able to see if it's Noble's implementation or the codec just being in early phase that's the culprit.

Regarding the MT's EQ, it is limited in adjustability, but it doesn't exactly operate like a band-limited EQ would. There's some extra DSP going on in the background that sort of smooths over transitions between EQ adjustments you make it in-between each band. Honestly, it's pretty clever, and I don't mind using it. If that's not your tea, though, you can always leave it flat and make adjustments in another third-party EQ app.


----------



## Canabuc

pkcpga said:


> Once at 16-17 then again around 30.  With the Sennheiser, I definitely didn’t hear it, sounds like a static noise with the Sennheiser.  The Sennheiser mushes micro dynamics too much and has a strong roll off.  Pleasant sound but very rolled off.  My wife kept the Sennheiser because she loves electric/dance/rap/pop music.  The Sennheiser replaced her Jabre 75t from last year.  These are my first real go at wireless since even over ear ones I’ve tried I’ve cringed at when hearing.  I’ve tried dongle plugs for my 64 Audios but the static noise is very apparent when doing that.  Hoping technology keeps advancing because they really are convenient when your doing something or working out.



Yes definitely heard it there and 2 more times in next 30 seconds.


----------



## dj24

Wireless charging version of the Jabra Elite Actives are now $72.

https://www.target.com/p/jabra-elit...ertified-refurbished/-/A-82459091#lnk=sametab

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08W3CTD7...0INT&_encoding=UTF8&psc=1&smid=A33YYQSE2NUERD

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Jabra-Elit...customid=c3cf955c899f11eb9afaf68da10d41810INT


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

dj24 said:


> Wireless charging version of the Jabra Elite Actives are now $72.
> 
> https://www.target.com/p/jabra-elit...ertified-refurbished/-/A-82459091#lnk=sametab
> 
> ...


Nice find! Takes out one more con from the list.
Fwiw, I've bought twice from their eBay store and once from them directly. Both were good experiences, but remember these will arrive without a retail box. Consider that if you have any plans to resell if they don't suit your tastes.


----------



## samandhi

miserybeforethemusic said:


> I've used SpinFit CP360 and the Final TWS tips. Prefer the stock ones as the changes to sound signature were negligible and they already have a really robust in-app EQ to tame any peaks. Don't think it's necessary, though.
> 
> I think B&W jumped the shark and announced too early. PI7 probably got held up in development.
> 
> ...


Actually AAC is not as close as one might think (strictly speaking of through-put) at only 250kbs. SBC actually has better through-put at 320kbs (AptX having 350). But, this just proves your original statement that "implementation matters", because I have heard cases that AAC does indeed sound best (on that particular phone), where AptX sounds better on others. If implemented right, SBC can sound very good (16/48 320kbs), but most manufactures have taken the quick route and not implemented it properly. The Bose Soundsport Free are still high up on Crinacle's list of TWS, and they use SBC exclusively (not that that is an end-all, but just as an example of a nicely tuned set of SBC TWS).  AAC has a lesser through-put, but has capability of better overall sound (24/48 250kbs). I would say that because it started out with better algorithms it is easier to implement well. AptX has been around for a long time too, but if it aint' broke, don't fix it. If it is sometimes difficult to tell the difference between cd quality and higher quality on expensive over ear headphones, then I would argue it would be improbable to tell with TWS, and impossible to tell with TWS and out and about. 

I would say that SBC will never meet audiophile sound, but I would argue that there are no TWS that you will be able to tell that difference yet (if you are using the TWS in the manner they were intended for). On some over ears you definitely can tell.  I also believe that as long as it is implemented well, (just for sound quality argument) the codec used should not be what you are yelling at the manufacturers for leaving out (or using older ones). I believe we should be on them about making their drivers better so that we CAN tell the difference between non audiophile and audiophile sound. I applaud companies like Noble that are using multiple driver TWS, but just having multiple drivers does NOT make them better than a single driver TWS. 

A properly tuned single driver setup will always sound better than a improperly (lazy, cheap, etc..) tuned multiple driver setup. I have found (especially with the chi-fi craze) that a lot of companies are simply putting multiple drivers in IEMs just for the cash that it brings from people that (mistakenly) think numbers always make things better. I can't wait for the day when a great pair of planar TWS come out (and sound great).


----------



## bladefd

pkcpga said:


> Interesting just asked Crutchfield, they list the p15 and believe it’s being released within the next 30 days.  While the p17 Crutchfield removed from preorder and the customer service rep I just talked to did not know why.  The p17 is definitely interesting, being a hybrid like the Noble Falcon Pro and Apt X Adaptive.  Hopefully with better Bluetooth formats like Apt X HD and Adaptive we’ll start seeing more interesting hybrid iems with a fuller more detailed range.  I wonder if Apple is going to improve aac since it definitely does not sound as good as apt x hd/adaptive.  Certainly be easier for me to be able to just use my phone over dap.


Knowing b&w, I bet the p17 is going to cost an arm and a leg lol. I won't be surprised if we see $400. Their products do sound damn good though. Just not for the average person.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

samandhi said:


> Actually AAC is not as close as one might think (strictly speaking of through-put) at only 250kbs. SBC actually has better through-put at 320kbs (AptX having 350). But, this just proves your original statement that "implementation matters", because I have heard cases that AAC does indeed sound best (on that particular phone), where AptX sounds better on others. If implemented right, SBC can sound very good (16/48 320kbs), but most manufactures have taken the quick route and not implemented it properly. The Bose Soundsport Free are still high up on Crinacle's list of TWS, and they use SBC exclusively (not that that is an end-all, but just as an example of a nicely tuned set of SBC TWS).  AAC has a lesser through-put, but has capability of better overall sound (24/48 250kbs). I would say that because it started out with better algorithms it is easier to implement well. AptX has been around for a long time too, but if it aint' broke, don't fix it. If it is sometimes difficult to tell the difference between cd quality and higher quality on expensive over ear headphones, then I would argue it would be improbable to tell with TWS, and impossible to tell with TWS and out and about.
> 
> I would say that SBC will never meet audiophile sound, but I would argue that there are no TWS that you will be able to tell that difference yet (if you are using the TWS in the manner they were intended for). On some over ears you definitely can tell.  I also believe that as long as it is implemented well, (just for sound quality argument) the codec used should not be what you are yelling at the manufacturers for leaving out (or using older ones). I believe we should be on them about making their drivers better so that we CAN tell the difference between non audiophile and audiophile sound. I applaud companies like Noble that are using multiple driver TWS, but just having multiple drivers does NOT make them better than a single driver TWS.
> 
> A properly tuned single driver setup will always sound better than a improperly (lazy, cheap, etc..) tuned multiple driver setup. I have found (especially with the chi-fi craze) that a lot of companies are simply putting multiple drivers in IEMs just for the cash that it brings from people that (mistakenly) think numbers always make things better. I can't wait for the day when a great pair of planar TWS come out (and sound great).


I like your perspective and think you covered the nuances of SBC really well. I do remember my time with LDAC and the Mobius were a real mixed bag and it was really hard to maintain 990 kbps on that silicon. Now that I have the 8T and its Snapdragon 865, maybe I'll give it another go.

100% agree that you can have great single-driver IEMs. Etymotic spoiled me there and I still have a hard time believing that's a BA in the ER4XR. The dynamic drivers included in the Technics, UE, and JBL are all really special on their own, just for different reasons.

That'll probably be the push in the future: drivers that are versatile in tuning being released with companion apps to EQ to your tastes. Pretty sure this is something even Head-Fi discussed a few years back when aptX first broke.


bladefd said:


> Knowing b&w, I bet the p17 is going to cost an arm and a leg lol. I won't be surprised if we see $400. Their products do sound damn good though. Just not for the average person.


I remember pricing before BB pulled the product page. $400 is right on the mark, making it the most expensive TWS I can think of that isn't some crazy custom setup. Also probably why they buried all info about it. Maybe they didn't really understand the market.


----------



## C_Lindbergh

bladefd said:


> Knowing b&w, I bet the p17 is going to cost an arm and a leg lol. I won't be surprised if we see $400. Their products do sound damn good though. Just not for the average person.



Problem is its a TWS, meaning that sooner or later your battery will need to be replaced, and replacing a battery in a tws isn't exactly easy like some big over-ear bt headphone. 

I'm not so sure I'm willing to spend that ammount of money on a TWS no matter how good it sounds.


----------



## pkcpga

C_Lindbergh said:


> Problem is its a TWS, meaning that sooner or later your battery will need to be replaced, and replacing a battery in a tws isn't exactly easy like some big over-ear bt headphone.
> 
> I'm not so sure I'm willing to spend that ammount of money on a TWS no matter how good it sounds.


I think on technology products like phones, iPads, now tws, price is all relative to the customer they are looking to attract.  A $500-600 TWS wouldn’t bother me if I’m getting the incremental better product.  Wether I spend $150 or $500 on a product I’m going to use a bunch over a year or two is no skin off my back.  But I’m sure there are very different markets just like with headphones or electronics, mass sales will probably be at $150 range.


----------



## SilverEars (Mar 20, 2021)

C_Lindbergh said:


> Problem is its a TWS, meaning that sooner or later your battery will need to be replaced, and replacing a battery in a tws isn't exactly easy like some big over-ear bt headphone.
> 
> I'm not so sure I'm willing to spend that ammount of money on a TWS no matter how good it sounds.


They need to do build them to be easily battery replaceable.  I think Galaxybuds have good battery replaceabilty score.  AirPods Pro on the other hamd unfortunately doesn't.

thing about this tech is, the tech updates over time like phone and people ditch old tech.  It's a great money making sche.e for companies so people keep buying new stuff.


----------



## zeinharis

Canabuc said:


> .
> 
> I think I heard that little tap in the right earbuds on both the freebuds pro and the MT. Was it just once or more?


I heard it too on my Nuarl’s clearly. On 01:07 cymbals positioned on the right back, than another one on the left forward side. The cymbals could be heard again on the right back side at 01:24


----------



## turbobb (Mar 20, 2021)

miserybeforethemusic said:


> There's some extra provisions to aptX Adaptive, but it's really getting into the weeds on the white papers. Agreed that it is backwards-compatible with the codecs you mentioned. Good thing it is, because they've got some wrinkles to iron out, in my experience. I've got a set of Edifier TWS1 Pro coming in that also support Adaptive, so I'll be able to see if it's Noble's implementation or the codec just being in early phase that's the culprit.


A few of us were discussing Adaptive's implementation over on this thread and thus far haven't been able to unravel how it works or what exactly it should fall back to (e.g. Falcon Pro should fall back to HD on non-Adaptive Tx that supports HD). The fact that even aptX's website can't get which devices truly support it correct further compounds the issue (e.g. SoundPeats TrueAir2 doesn't have Adaptive despite having QCC3040).

I don't have a phone that supports Adaptive so will need to wait until Tx's supporting it become available for me to test further and enjoy its benefits.


----------



## C_Lindbergh

pkcpga said:


> I think on technology products like phones, iPads, now tws, price is all relative to the customer they are looking to attract.  A $500-600 TWS wouldn’t bother me if I’m getting the incremental better product.  Wether I spend $150 or $500 on a product I’m going to use a bunch over a year or two is no skin off my back.  But I’m sure there are very different markets just like with headphones or electronics, mass sales will probably be at $150 range.


I guess, but a phone and tablet are both pretty easy to replace the battery. So even if the tech falls behind they're still usable years after launch. 

Personally I doubt I'd wanna spent the money that Bowers & Wilkins might charge for thr P17. Unless there's an easy way to replace the battery.


----------



## Canabuc

C_Lindbergh said:


> Problem is its a TWS, meaning that sooner or later your battery will need to be replaced, and replacing a battery in a tws isn't exactly easy like some big over-ear bt headphone.
> 
> I'm not so sure I'm willing to spend that ammount of money on a TWS no matter how good it sounds.


That is my argument as to why I wouldn't spent 300$ or more on one set of tws. My B&W P7W are several years old and yes still have micro usb and Bluetooth be 4.2i think but they sound as great and even if the battery is now 14 instead of 18 how I can manage. If my tws lasts 2 hours instead then they will not get used much


----------



## Canabuc

C_Lindbergh said:


> I guess, but a phone and tablet are both pretty easy to replace the battery. So even if the tech falls behind they're still usable years after launch.
> 
> Personally I doubt I'd wanna spent the money that Bowers & Wilkins might charge for thr P17. Unless there's an easy way to replace the battery.


And am iPad can serve as may other things even when it's performance deteriorates. I've seen it used as a digital picture frame an e-book or magazine reader or to watch videos...


----------



## alchemical

bladefd said:


> Knowing b&w, I bet the p17 is going to cost an arm and a leg lol. I won't be surprised if we see $400. Their products do sound damn good though. Just not for the average person.


Initial Reddit thread that leaked the B&W info had PI5 at $249.99 and PI7 at $449.99 I believe.


----------



## samandhi

Canabuc said:


> And am iPad can serve as may other things even when it's performance deteriorates. I've seen it used as a digital picture frame an e-book or magazine reader or to watch videos...


I agree with this. Though I do have to say that I don't appreciate companies that build in "planned obsolescence" using the battery as an example. For example I used to have the Samsung Note 4. It was the best phone ever put out (IMO), and Samsung knew it was a mistake to make something so bulletproof, because they would lose future sales for people having no desire to ever upgrade. I would argue that because of the plateau of hardware speeds, cost, etc... it would still be relevant today. It was the last phone that Samsung made the battery easily replaceable (also that awesome IR blaster). From there Samsung started taking features away from each phone, then splitting them into different tiers of their products and charging hand over fist for things like a simple 32 gb upgrade, or one that has a memory card slot as opposed to one that doesn't, etc...

I still use my Note 4 for reading ebooks, and even using some of my older BT headphone (ie Sennheiser Momentum 2.0) because it did have AptX onboard. I have had mine since the first year they were released, and I have actually only replaced the battery 1 time thus far (granted, I use it very little nowadays, but still...).


----------



## Canabuc

Loved my note 4 until the screen broke


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

turbobb said:


> A few of us were discussing Adaptive's implementation over on this thread and thus far haven't been able to unravel how it works or what exactly it should fall back to (e.g. Falcon Pro should fall back to HD on non-Adaptive Tx that supports HD). The fact that even aptX's website can't get which devices truly support it correct further compounds the issue (e.g. SoundPeats TrueAir2 doesn't have Adaptive despite having QCC3040).
> 
> I don't have a phone that supports Adaptive so will need to wait until Tx's supporting it become available for me to test further and enjoy its benefits.


Thanks for pointing me in the direction of that thread. Once things slow down here, I'll hop over and get caught up. What I can say is that, in my experience, native AptX Adaptive (as in it does not revert to another codec) is possible, but my results vary based on which app I'm using and how much throughput is required for the track I'm playing. It does not handle high bitrates well consistently and I've seen this manifest anywhere from slight artifacting to the buds completely dropping out on one or both sides.


----------



## Canabuc

Question for MT users. Do you prefer the white or black. I bought the black bit I'm wondering if I should have gone for the white. I prefer look of the white buds but was worried about the case getting dirty.

Opinions?


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

Canabuc said:


> Question for MT users. Do you prefer the white or black. I bought the black bit I'm wondering if I should have gone for the white. I prefer look of the white buds but was worried about the case getting dirty.
> 
> Opinions?


Love the white. I honestly couldn't picture these in black. Hopefully they get some wild idea (and the courage) down the road to release one with a clear case. I'd buy a second pair in a heartbeat.


----------



## samandhi

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Thanks for pointing me in the direction of that thread. Once things slow down here, I'll hop over and get caught up. What I can say is that, in my experience, native AptX Adaptive (as in it does not revert to another codec) is possible, but my results vary based on which app I'm using and how much throughput is required for the track I'm playing. It does not handle high bitrates well consistently and I've seen this manifest anywhere from slight artifacting to the buds completely dropping out on one or both sides.


This exactly. This is also going back to what you said earlier about LDAC codec. I am STILL in 2021 only able to run my Deva on LDAC at 660kbs. Anything higher and it has artifacts, or just stops altogether. For that part, I am thinking the paper specs are ahead of the the actual implementation for BT....


Canabuc said:


> Question for MT users. Do you prefer the white or black. I bought the black bit I'm wondering if I should have gone for the white. I prefer look of the white buds but was worried about the case getting dirty.
> 
> Opinions?


I have the white ones. Had them for a while now, and I haven't found them to get dirty very easily (though I was afraid of that at first), even though the case is in a material that seems SHOULD pick up dirt easily. I would say that they DON'T in fact get dirty easily, because I frequently work in HVAC mechanical rooms (and we all know how dirty those can get), and new construction sites (also a constant dirt magnet). They seem like they would wipe right off if I should want to though, so I don't think I would sweat it too much. I can't say whether I would have liked the white or black better, but most of my IEMs/TWS are black (or at least a dark color), so I thought I would change it up. My wife accuses me of stuffing cotton in my ears so I can't hear her.   

Normally when people see you wearing anything white, they assume you must have something apple... LOL


----------



## Canabuc

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Love the white. I honestly couldn't picture these in black. Hopefully they get some wild idea (and the courage) down the road to release one with a clear case. I'd buy a second pair in a heartbeat.


The case doesn't show signs of wear it dirt?
I'm asking because I don't like the creek is the case on June. Also feels the kids sticks someone's and doesn't open smoothly. Thinking of exchanging them and wondering if I go white. All my buds are black or grey though the metallic Chrome of freebuds is cool too.


----------



## Canabuc

samandhi said:


> This exactly. This is also going back to what you said earlier about LDAC codec. I am STILL in 2021 only able to run my Deva on LDAC at 660kbs. Anything higher and it has artifacts, or just stops altogether. For that part, I am thinking the paper specs are ahead of the the actual implementation for BT....
> 
> I have the white ones. Had them for a while now, and I haven't found them to get dirty very easily (though I was afraid of that at first), even though the case is in a material that seems SHOULD pick up dirt easily. I would say that they DON'T in fact get dirty easily, because I frequently work in HVAC mechanical rooms (and we all know how dirty those can get), and new construction sites (also a constant dirt magnet). They seem like they would wipe right off if I should want to though, so I don't think I would sweat it too much. I can't say whether I would have liked the white or black better, but most of my IEMs/TWS are black (or at least a dark color), so I thought I would change it up. My wife accuses me of stuffing cotton in my ears so I can't hear her.
> 
> Normally when people see you wearing anything white, they assume you must have something apple... LOL


Are you referring to the buds themselves or the case? I'm not worried about the buds but rather the faux leather case.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

samandhi said:


> This exactly. This is also going back to what you said earlier about LDAC codec. I am STILL in 2021 only able to run my Deva on LDAC at 660kbs. Anything higher and it has artifacts, or just stops altogether. For that part, I am thinking the paper specs are ahead of the the actual implementation for BT....


Oh of course. Still blows my mind how clean the signal I get from the Etymotion cable is and that's no spring chicken. Maybe aptX HD is our best compromise (in terms of usability/reliability) for Android at the moment and iOS users have a theoretical upper hand with their implementation of AAC.


Canabuc said:


> The case doesn't show signs of wear it dirt?
> I'm asking because I don't like the creek is the case on June. Also feels the kids sticks someone's and doesn't open smoothly. Thinking of exchanging them and wondering if I go white. All my buds are black or grey though the metallic Chrome of freebuds is cool too.


I'm not the best person to ask at the moment as I'm usually at home most of the time, meaning these don't get pocketed. I'll say they haven't shown any discoloration yet. The buds themselves have never been dirt magnets for me and I've used them for tons of housework at this point; they had their opportunity.


----------



## Canabuc

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Oh of course. Still blows my mind how clean the signal I get from the Etymotion cable is and that's no spring chicken. Maybe aptX HD is our best compromise (in terms of usability/reliability) for Android at the moment and iOS users have a theoretical upper hand with their implementation of AAC.
> 
> I'm not the best person to ask at the moment as I'm usually at home most of the time, meaning these don't get pocketed. I'll say they haven't shown any discoloration yet. The buds themselves have never been dirt magnets for me and I've used them for tons of housework at this point; they had their opportunity.


My only hesitation in the white is the case. The buds look very nice in that color though the black are more noticeable when someone thinks you aren't listening ( in usually not anyway lol).


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

Decided to pull out what I believe has become the least-played pair to give some love today...the JBL Club Pro+ (JBLCP+ abbreviated?). I really just want to dive deep into them and figure out if it's simply because there's so many other options to go to that I don't think much about the JBLCP+. The more I listen to it in stock EQ, the more I realize what they remind me of...and bear with me on this one:

The Sennheiser HD280 Pro.

I can't be crazy on this one, I swear, but the JBLCP+ really remind me of the same kind of sound signature I basically grew up on with the HD280s. There's definitely a little bloom in the bass, but it's done tastefully so nothing ends up boxy or honky. Treble is rolled off, but not so much that the detail completely dies off. Stage width feels about the same. It even has the same sense that you're hearing the entire track, but it's not as sophisticated and surgical with instrument separation like the Noble and ER4XR can be.

And I think that's why, played as little as they are, I can't really bring myself to want to return or sell these. They've become a known quantity in the collection. Just wish they'd address the almost non-existent ANC and extremely digital HearThrough tech, because the driver they put in that thing is exceptional.


Canabuc said:


> My only hesitation in the white is the case. The buds look very nice in that color though the black are more noticeable when someone thinks you aren't listening ( in usually not anyway lol).


If you're planning on getting the white anyway, why not use the white buds in the black charging case when you're on the go? As far as I can tell, they're not uniquely paired together.


----------



## samandhi

Canabuc said:


> Are you referring to the buds themselves or the case? I'm not worried about the buds but rather the faux leather case.


I'm talking about the case. I snapped a couple of photos for you. I have had these for maybe 2 months or so??? I have not wiped them down or cleaned them at all.


----------



## Canabuc

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Decided to pull out what I believe has become the least-played pair to give some love today...the JBL Club Pro+ (JBLCP+ abbreviated?). I really just want to dive deep into them and figure out if it's simply because there's so many other options to go to that I don't think much about the JBLCP+. The more I listen to it in stock EQ, the more I realize what they remind me of...and bear with me on this one:
> 
> The Sennheiser HD280 Pro.
> 
> ...



Going to return the black. It's question of which to replace white or black


----------



## Canabuc

Listening to this song with freebuds pro and wow. It's like I'm feeling the background best. I'm loving these buds. Is go as far to say if I only had to own 1 earbud right now if take these over the Sennheiser Jabra Sony or JBL or MT. Just wish they had in app EQ.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

Canabuc said:


> Going to return the black. It's question of which to replace white or black


White. No need to overthink it.


----------



## Canabuc

samandhi said:


> I'm talking about the case. I snapped a couple of photos for you. I have had these for maybe 2 months or so??? I have not wiped them down or cleaned them at all.


Wow look great! Do you take them out on the go? In pocket or to workout? I think I'm might seal mine for the white.


----------



## pkcpga

Canabuc said:


> Going to return the black. It's question of which to replace white or black


I actually like the gray fabric case, I’d be afraid of my jeans rubbing off on the white case.  I personally think the Sennheiser’s in black or white are some of the nicest looking buds and cases.  The Noble’s case is the biggest let down for me, looks and feels pretty cheap in comparison, but is easy to pocket.


----------



## pkcpga

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Decided to pull out what I believe has become the least-played pair to give some love today...the JBL Club Pro+ (JBLCP+ abbreviated?). I really just want to dive deep into them and figure out if it's simply because there's so many other options to go to that I don't think much about the JBLCP+. The more I listen to it in stock EQ, the more I realize what they remind me of...and bear with me on this one:
> 
> The Sennheiser HD280 Pro.
> 
> ...


I used to love my hd280’s, I had them in college.


----------



## tinyman392

I know someone about a month back or so was talking about trying to adapt the UTWS3 to the TinHiFi P1, but fearing it couldn’t drive it properly...  Well I finally was able to get a pair of P1 in hand (Drop) and can definitely confirm, the UTWS3 is able to drive the P1.  They are only slightly harder to drive than the Audeze Euclid.  They also do sound more planar than the Euclid does  P1 is also extremely tiny, OMG.  I’m using the XXS Tips right now I think


----------



## samandhi

Canabuc said:


> Wow look great! Do you take them out on the go? In pocket or to workout? I think I'm might seal mine for the white.


Yes, I take them to work on most days.. I rotate between those, the Hifiman TWS600, and the Nuarl N6Pro, but these get used more often than the other two (because I like having the ambient mode. I work in dirty mechanical rooms, and new construction sites, so while I might come home dirty my buds don't... Hope that is helpful.

I do HVAC controls programming, so I normally take them in my coat, or laptop backpack. When I put them in, I normally leave the case sitting on my foldable/portable table throughout the day, so there is plenty of opportunity to pick up dirt.


----------



## samandhi (Mar 20, 2021)

tinyman392 said:


> I know someone about a month back or so was talking about trying to adapt the UTWS3 to the TinHiFi P1, but fearing it couldn’t drive it properly...  Well I finally was able to get a pair of P1 in hand (Drop) and can definitely confirm, the UTWS3 is able to drive the P1.  They are only slightly harder to drive than the Audeze Euclid.  They also do sound more planar than the Euclid does  P1 is also extremely tiny, OMG.  I’m using the XXS Tips right now I think


That was me (or at least I was one person). Now you have me super excited, as the P1 are ONE of my absolute favorite IEMs I own. Also one of, if not the most comfortable over time. Do give some impressions after you have listened to them for a time?!

I wasn't concerned so much about being able to drive them, because you can actually drive them pretty easily from a phone, but to drive them well, that is another matter altogether (the specs are super deceiving on these). I use the DX160 from 4.4mm balanced to get the 1.2W I need to drive them to potential. Otherwise they do get plenty loud, but are pretty darned flat and lifeless.

Edit: I was just looking at the specs on the UTWS3 and noticed that it only ouputs 38mw at 16ohms (which the P1 are 20ohms), but I found on my DX160 from SE (which is 600mw) they sound pretty lifeless. So, if you could do some comparisons with something that has some good power I would appreciate it (if you had the DX160 that would be ideal, at least for me haha).


----------



## tinyman392 (Mar 20, 2021)

samandhi said:


> That was me (or at least I was one person). Now you have me super excited, as the P1 are ONE of my absolute favorite IEMs I own. Also one of, if not the most comfortable over time. Do give some impressions after you have listened to them for a time?!
> 
> I wasn't concerned so much about being able to drive them, because you can actually drive them pretty easily from a phone, but to drive them well, that is another matter altogether (the specs are super deceiving on these). I use the DX160 from 4.4mm balanced to get the 1.2W I need to drive them to potential. Otherwise they do get plenty loud, but are pretty darned flat and lifeless.
> 
> Edit: I was just looking at the specs on the UTWS3 and noticed that it only ouputs 38mw at 16ohms (which the P1 are 20ohms), but I found on my DX160 from SE (which is 600mw) they sound pretty lifeless. So, if you could do some comparisons with something that has some good power I would appreciate it (if you had the DX160 that would be ideal, at least for me haha).



I can play around with it.  With the UTWS3 they give off a very planar sound, not too different than something I’d expect out of a HiFiMan full-sized planar in terms of tonality.  So a thicker bass with great extension, body, and texturing leading to a warm midrange and clarity that is subdued so it’s not in your face.  Treble is on the softer side by still offering good energy and splash.  It’s a very easy IEM to listen to that isn’t fatiguing. 

I listen at a very low volume in general (about 70-80 dB average) so I tend to not need to push high wattage when listening in general, even with my Topping DX3 Pro I really don’t need to ramp up the volume knob too far with my HE-560 to get to comfortable listening levels.

Edit: normally I feel like the quality of the DAC/amp vs the actual power output tends to make the biggest difference when it comes to SQ when swapping between them.  That and the output impedance (on headphones that are sensitive to that).  I know the TRN TWS adapters I have aren’t great when paired with my Euclid since they kind of muddy up the sound a bit but the Fiio works a ton better.  I’m planning on returning the TRN adapters though since I was kind of underwhelmed by them sonically.


----------



## samandhi

tinyman392 said:


> I can play around with it.  With the UTWS3 they give off a very planar sound, not too different than something I’d expect out of a HiFiMan full-sized planar in terms of tonality.  So a thicker bass with great extension, body, and texturing leading to a warm midrange and clarity that is subdued so it’s not in your face.  Treble is on the softer side by still offering good energy and splash.  It’s a very easy IEM to listen to that isn’t fatiguing.
> 
> I listen at a very low volume in general (about 70-80 dB average) so I tend to not need to push high wattage when listening in general, even with my Topping DX3 Pro I really don’t need to ramp up the volume knob too far with my HE-560 to get to comfortable listening levels.
> 
> Edit: normally I feel like the quality of the DAC/amp vs the actual power output tends to make the biggest difference when it comes to SQ when swapping between them.  That and the output impedance (on headphones that are sensitive to that).  I know the TRN TWS adapters I have aren’t great when paired with my Euclid since they kind of muddy up the sound a bit but the Fiio works a ton better.  I’m planning on returning the TRN adapters though since I was kind of underwhelmed by them sonically.


That is actually what interested me in them to begin with, I was looking for something in a portable IEM that had the Hifiman sound I loved. They are actually tuned very similarly to the HE400S IMO. 

I also listen fairly quietly (except when that one song comes on that needs some volume and toe tapping ). I don't need the wattage for the volume either, but you know as well as I do that volume is not the only benefit that you get from good amping... 

I don't know where you are from, but would you know where I can pick this up from in the US? I can only find it on flea-bay. I found it on Shenzhenaudio, but it says pre-order, and that it won't be out until April.


----------



## pkcpga

C_Lindbergh said:


> I guess, but a phone and tablet are both pretty easy to replace the battery. So even if the tech falls behind they're still usable years after launch.
> 
> Personally I doubt I'd wanna spent the money that Bowers & Wilkins might charge for thr P17. Unless there's an easy way to replace the battery.


I think it’s all economy to scale and will target the customer they are looking for. I’d personally even spend a grand on a really good set of wireless headphones even if they were obsolete in two years.  But I also am willing to spend 6 figures on a car I know will last 5 years, so it all depends on what is considered an acceptable amount for the customer they are targeting and that’s varies drastically.  While TWS are interesting they are still by far the cheapest headphones I own, plus throw in regular headphones require a dap or dac/amp combo, cables.  Dac’s and Dap’s easily get older and usually get updated, less frequently then TWS’s but they generally cost a decent amount more.  Dap’s battery’s are generally harder to replace like iPhones or iPads.  I find it hard to believe customers who spend 5k plus on headphones, plus another 2-5k on dac/amp wouldn’t spend $500 on a TWS if it sounds enjoyable for on the go.


----------



## tinyman392 (Mar 20, 2021)

samandhi said:


> That is actually what interested me in them to begin with, I was looking for something in a portable IEM that had the Hifiman sound I loved. They are actually tuned very similarly to the HE400S IMO.
> 
> I also listen fairly quietly (except when that one song comes on that needs some volume and toe tapping ). I don't need the wattage for the volume either, but you know as well as I do that volume is not the only benefit that you get from good amping...
> 
> I don't know where you are from, but would you know where I can pick this up from in the US? I can only find it on flea-bay. I found it on Shenzhenaudio, but it says pre-order, and that it won't be out until April.



I’m assuming you’re referring to the UTWS3 as those are kind of hard to come by in the US?  I actually was able to get an MMCX variant of it on Amazon.  It goes in and out of stock though which can be annoying :/ But yeah, the first thing I thought when I put them in my ears is that the P1 reminded me more of a HiFiMan tuning; being some of the first planar magnetic headphones I owned I guess I kind of equated that sort of signature to the “planar” sound.

Edit 1: I was able to get a pair from AliExpress as well (2-pin) that seem legit (the app picks them up still.  That takes a bit longer to ship though.
Edit 2: Amazon seems to be out of stock of the MMCX 
Edit 3: Here’s the Amazon link I ordered from.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic (Mar 20, 2021)

Figured I'd share my Neutralizer comp curve for the JBL Club Pro+ with the Final TWS tips installed. Really surprised the 1k-4k was getting dropped down to almost 5% to amplitude-match with the bass and midbass, but this lines up really well against the ER4XR. Different architectures, so not identical in sound, but there's a lot in common.


_Disclaimer_: _every wireless pair I own cuts off before 10k. Since I don't want to massively gain-boost there and risk distortion, I leave the 10k setting alone. It just ends up throwing off the response curve.

Here's the track I'm testing against. Small visual changes on the curve can still be pretty drastic to the ear. Good news is this is one track that I think pushes things in all directions, so you'll know if something doesn't sound quite right.
_


----------



## dj24

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Nice find! Takes out one more con from the list.
> Fwiw, I've bought twice from their eBay store and once from them directly. Both were good experiences, but remember these will arrive without a retail box. Consider that if you have any plans to resell if they don't suit your tastes.



Remember to e-mail Jabra and ask for a price match if you're within your 30 day window.  They've responded to me within minutes for a price match and once when I was 2 days past the 30 day deadline.  They're pretty good about it.


----------



## Luke Skywalker

pkcpga said:


> Started a collection of wireless buds, Sony WF-1000XM3, Sennheiser Momentum True 2 and Noble Falcon Pro.
> Out of the three best out of box sound was the Sony, Sennheiser was better when equalized (hifi mode) and Noble was much better when equalized.
> Ranked
> 1. Noble’s out of the box sound pretty meh, plenty of detail but very V shaped with recessed vocals.  Luckily Noble app has the best equalizer out of all of the ones I’ve tried.  And the equalizer setting stays saved with the IEMs so when switching from my phone to Fiio m15 or iPad or A&K, my settings are all saved.  Not the case on the Sennheiser’s.  The Noble’s require the most playing with the EQ but once set they are drastically more detailed, better bass control and better dynamics then the other two.  Noble includes the newest Apt X which when used with the m15 sounds great, much better sub bass, dynamic bass, more details and air in highs.  I’m sure having BA for highs helps with the dynamic driver for lows, the vocals due have a BA which is both good and bad.  It’s a modern BA so timbre is pretty good but the Sennheiser is definitely the best of the 3 for vocals.  Noble’s mids need a bunch of EQ to sound textured and less thin.  Also dropping the 4K EQ to get rid of sibilance.  Although after EQ it is definitely the best of the group.
> ...


KEF mu3, my friend.  Not quite up there with my JH Lola's but the closest I've seen him a TWS by far.  I also like LCD 2s


----------



## Luke Skywalker

diimaan said:


> Have you tried the mu3’s with N6P tips? For me the fit is more stable with Nuarl’s tips than KEF’s!


Wow no I'll try that thanks.  I actually have them in my ears right now.  I listen to them for like 4+ hours a day now


----------



## samandhi

tinyman392 said:


> I’m assuming you’re referring to the UTWS3 as those are kind of hard to come by in the US?  I actually was able to get an MMCX variant of it on Amazon.  It goes in and out of stock though which can be annoying :/ But yeah, the first thing I thought when I put them in my ears is that the P1 reminded me more of a HiFiMan tuning; being some of the first planar magnetic headphones I owned I guess I kind of equated that sort of signature to the “planar” sound.
> 
> Edit 1: I was able to get a pair from AliExpress as well (2-pin) that seem legit (the app picks them up still.  That takes a bit longer to ship though.
> Edit 2: Amazon seems to be out of stock of the MMCX
> Edit 3: Here’s the Amazon link I ordered from.


Yes, I was talking about the UTWS3. Funny, that was my very first thought also with them. I had done some research on planar IEM and could only find the Audeze Isine planar, but had read enough bad reviews that I knew they couldn't have the sound signature I was looking for. When I first got the P1 I thought they ripped off the tuning of the HE400S but with a bit more treble resolution, and less bass quantity overall. I am in the same boat as you, Hifiman being the first set of planar headphones, I also associate that planar sound to them. 

Yeah, that Amazon link is the one I was looking at also, but alas it is out of stock atm.... Oh well, I'll just keep looking, or maybe order it from Shenzhanaudio.com (if it is reputable) on a pre-order.

I look forwards to your thoughts on how well the UTWS3 performs after a bit of time!?


----------



## samandhi

diimaan said:


> Have you tried the mu3’s with N6P tips? For me the fit is more stable with Nuarl’s tips than KEF’s!


I actually like the N6P tips with the MT also, but they won't fit into the case if I do.


----------



## TK33

alchemical said:


> Initial Reddit thread that leaked the B&W info had PI5 at $249.99 and PI7 at $449.99 I believe.


Screenshot from my Best Buy app. Best Buy had the PI7 up for $400 for a bit.  Product page was pulled but still shows up in my Saved Items in my cart.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic (Mar 20, 2021)

samandhi said:


> I had done some research on planar IEM and could only find the Audeze Isine planar, but had read enough bad reviews that I knew they couldn't have the sound signature I was looking for.


IMO, the secret to making the iSines work is understanding how to EQ them and how to make them consistently fit. Audeze horribly mis-advertised these by not mentioning they basically ship as a blank slate in terms of EQ. Those drivers ship in some of the most boring, neutral tuning on the planet. From there, you can either use the Cipher cable (BT or wired) to get their house tuning re-injected or parse whatever resource you want for a reference point of your own. I can tell you I would get stellar results using some generic 7-band GEQ settings with those planars; they can really take some EQ.

Also, they need current. More current is better. You'll find the low-end starts to round out the more powerful a source you've got it connected to and it's not always the one that's rated for more watts. I do have pretty good synergy with the Cayin N5iiS if I run it balanced, but it really sings on the desktop amp (Monoprice THX 788). Try to go wired directly out of your phone and it's an uphill battle.

Long story short, I'll never sell these. I want iSine 20s eventually, but these are mighty fine as is.


----------



## tinyman392

samandhi said:


> Yes, I was talking about the UTWS3. Funny, that was my very first thought also with them. I had done some research on planar IEM and could only find the Audeze Isine planar, but had read enough bad reviews that I knew they couldn't have the sound signature I was looking for. When I first got the P1 I thought they ripped off the tuning of the HE400S but with a bit more treble resolution, and less bass quantity overall. I am in the same boat as you, Hifiman being the first set of planar headphones, I also associate that planar sound to them.
> 
> Yeah, that Amazon link is the one I was looking at also, but alas it is out of stock atm.... Oh well, I'll just keep looking, or maybe order it from Shenzhanaudio.com (if it is reputable) on a pre-order.
> 
> I look forwards to your thoughts on how well the UTWS3 performs after a bit of time!?



The Audeze iSine is actually a very good IEM if you have access to an EQ or their Cipher cable (Lightning, not BT) as it was Audeze’s way of trying to really tune their headphones using DSP instead of a more analog method.  They moved to the analog style of doing it with the Euclid, which I feel they succeeded with, though I wouldn’t really equate that sound with the “planar sound.”  That’s still a technically amazing IEM that’s kind of a jack of all trades IMO.  I don’t have too many planar IEMs, I tried the RHA CL2 which sounded great except for the spikes in the lower treble/upper midrange, but again, the bass quantity wasn’t strong and the midrange was a bit hot (this was returned).  The Euclid is similar in that regard with a midrange that isn’t as hot.  I also have the Nightingale by AAW that I got from Drop.  With EQ work, they sound fantastic with lots of resolution, but they need a ton of EQing since they are just overly dark otherwise.  I’m really enjoying the P1 since the sound signature is familiar.  On the plus side, the TRN adapters don’t completely kill the P1 sound signature like they do on the Euclid; they still make it a bit warmer though at a slight cost of clarity (on the Euclid it does both of these to larger extremes); I’d still recommend the Fiio over the TRN unless you want to add more warmth to the sound as a whole.  

Regarding Shenzhanaudio, you could ask Fiio if their are authorized to sell.  They seem to sell a lot of different Chinese brands too, so they in all likelihood are, but you could email Fiio and confirm . 

So far I’ve been very happy with the UTWS3, it does its job and does it very well.  The only thing I don’t like is that I have to set the volume to where I like it half of the time when it connects (I think it’s more of an iOS bug than it is Fiio, but who knows).  I really wish you could update the firmware using the iOS app as I can’t get the Android app to play ball...  Granted I bought the cheapest Android phone to try to update my firmware with (some Blu phone).


----------



## tinyman392

miserybeforethemusic said:


> IMO, the secret to making the iSines work is understanding how to EQ them and how to make them consistently fit. Audeze horribly mis-advertised these by not mentioning they basically ship as a blank slate in terms of EQ. Those drivers ship in some of the most boring, neutral tuning on the planet. From there, you can either use the Cipher cable (BT or wired) to get their house tuning re-injected or parse whatever resource you want for a reference point of your own. I can tell you I would get stellar results using some generic 7-band GEQ settings with those planars; they can really take some EQ.
> 
> Also, they need current. More current is better. You'll find the low-end starts to round out the more powerful a source you've got it connected to and it's not always the one that's rated for more watts. I do have pretty good synergy with the Cayin N5iiS if I run it balanced, but it really sings on the desktop amp (Monoprice THX 788). Try to go wired directly out of your phone and it's an uphill battle.
> 
> Long story short, I'll never sell these. I want iSine 20s eventually, but these are mighty fine as is.


I’ve got the iSine 10 with a Cipher cable.  Definitely will be a long time before I let them go, assuming I ever do  I’m in the same boat as you.  They are a stellar IEM, but need some work to get them going.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

tinyman392 said:


> I’ve got the iSine 10 with a Cipher cable.  Definitely will be a long time before I let them go, assuming I ever do  I’m in the same boat as you.  They are a stellar IEM, but need some work to get them going.


Pretty sure my Cipher Lightning cable is still around here somewhere. Never had a positive experience with it, but that's more a synergy issue with iOS than it is a negative against Audeze. I'd be willing to give the Cipher BT a shot for the right price.

Huh...so after about a week of sitting on the sidelines, I reached for the Technics case and...

Case is fully charged and each bud is at 100%.

Whatever parasitic drain bug has been reported in the past, it apparently does not affect the pair I bought. Great news, because they really are unique enough to stick around. Definitely the most temperamental of the bunch when it comes to sound adjustments (second only to, perhaps, the EFP), though. That's some impressive battery retention, given the circumstances.

At this point, I'll admit defeat in attempting to get the 85t to come close to sounding as clear and dynamic as the EA75t. It may just be the inferior-sounding pair, which is a rotten shame because of how much else it does really well. I just can't breathe life or energy into them. Of all the pairs I have here, I didn't consider that the 85t might be the first ones on the chopping block. Maybe I'll give them a free pass since I got them for far below retail and, as a result, they're far more worth their asking price. Think I'd have been really upset if I had paid over $200 for those.

The EFPs, additionally, cannot shake their true nature of being very bassy, yet very comfortable buds. While the Final tips do little to help bring down the bass weight, their Large TWS tip more than fills out the shallower parts of my inner ear, making it even more comfortable than I had previously thought possible. If I'm going to be out somewhere loud and the environmental noise is going to soak up that extra bass, then I don't think it'll be a problem, but it's just a bit too much to allow for an articulate midrange. Haven't been able to fix this with Neutralizer so far. That being said, it's one stellar $50 TWS.


----------



## samandhi

miserybeforethemusic said:


> IMO, the secret to making the iSines work is understanding how to EQ them and how to make them consistently fit. Audeze horribly mis-advertised these by not mentioning they basically ship as a blank slate in terms of EQ. Those drivers ship in some of the most boring, neutral tuning on the planet. From there, you can either use the Cipher cable (BT or wired) to get their house tuning re-injected or parse whatever resource you want for a reference point of your own. I can tell you I would get stellar results using some generic 7-band GEQ settings with those planars; they can really take some EQ.
> 
> Also, they need current. More current is better. You'll find the low-end starts to round out the more powerful a source you've got it connected to and it's not always the one that's rated for more watts. I do have pretty good synergy with the Cayin N5iiS if I run it balanced, but it really sings on the desktop amp (Monoprice THX 788). Try to go wired directly out of your phone and it's an uphill battle.
> 
> Long story short, I'll never sell these. I want iSine 20s eventually, but these are mighty fine as is.





tinyman392 said:


> The Audeze iSine is actually a very good IEM if you have access to an EQ or their Cipher cable (Lightning, not BT) as it was Audeze’s way of trying to really tune their headphones using DSP instead of a more analog method.  They moved to the analog style of doing it with the Euclid, which I feel they succeeded with, though I wouldn’t really equate that sound with the “planar sound.”  That’s still a technically amazing IEM that’s kind of a jack of all trades IMO.  I don’t have too many planar IEMs, I tried the RHA CL2 which sounded great except for the spikes in the lower treble/upper midrange, but again, the bass quantity wasn’t strong and the midrange was a bit hot (this was returned).  The Euclid is similar in that regard with a midrange that isn’t as hot.  I also have the Nightingale by AAW that I got from Drop.  With EQ work, they sound fantastic with lots of resolution, but they need a ton of EQing since they are just overly dark otherwise.  I’m really enjoying the P1 since the sound signature is familiar.  On the plus side, the TRN adapters don’t completely kill the P1 sound signature like they do on the Euclid; they still make it a bit warmer though at a slight cost of clarity (on the Euclid it does both of these to larger extremes); I’d still recommend the Fiio over the TRN unless you want to add more warmth to the sound as a whole.
> 
> Regarding Shenzhanaudio, you could ask Fiio if their are authorized to sell.  They seem to sell a lot of different Chinese brands too, so they in all likelihood are, but you could email Fiio and confirm .
> 
> So far I’ve been very happy with the UTWS3, it does its job and does it very well.  The only thing I don’t like is that I have to set the volume to where I like it half of the time when it connects (I think it’s more of an iOS bug than it is Fiio, but who knows).  I really wish you could update the firmware using the iOS app as I can’t get the Android app to play ball...  Granted I bought the cheapest Android phone to try to update my firmware with (some Blu phone).


I stand corrected, and I may have to look at these. I don't won't regret my choice of the P1 either way though. But if the iSine can be tuned however I want and still not be distorted, I might love them as a contrast to the P1. ATM I am using the Audiosense T800 as a good contrast (bassy, bright, slight V sound). 

For the P1 (for my taste) I have found the best sound to be with a boosted sub-bass of about 5db, subtracted 4k about 2 or 3db and boosted upper treble of about 4db (to compensate for the illusion of warmth added by taking away 4k). This creates a nice W that is both fun AND analytic in nature, but still sort of warm with super clarity... Best I can describe it. You'll just have to give it a shot and listen... hehe

The UTWS3 is definitely on my radar now though, and I will have it at some point. Plus they are not that expensive. What was the cost of them when you bought them? I saw them on Shenzhanaudio for $79.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

samandhi said:


> The UTWS3 is definitely on my radar now though, and I will have it at some point. Plus they are not that expensive. What was the cost of them when you bought them? I saw them on Shenzhanaudio for $79.


Is that the MMCX-only version or the one that includes the 0.78mm adapters? $79 sounds like an insane deal.


----------



## samandhi (Mar 21, 2021)

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Is that the MMCX-only version or the one that includes the 0.78mm adapters? $79 sounds like an insane deal.


Nope, no adaptor with it. Just the MMCX version. Here is the link.



Edit: Looks like $79 is about right. Saw them (though out of stock) on HifiGo for same price, but Flea-Bay were $109 (of course). Aliexpress has them for $106 (also without the adaptor).


----------



## tinyman392

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Pretty sure my Cipher Lightning cable is still around here somewhere. Never had a positive experience with it, but that's more a synergy issue with iOS than it is a negative against Audeze. I'd be willing to give the Cipher BT a shot for the right price.
> 
> Huh...so after about a week of sitting on the sidelines, I reached for the Technics case and...
> 
> ...


The Cipher BT ends up darkening the sound signature a lot IMO. It did work and was comfortable, but I prefer the sound signature from the Cipher, though that’s pretty close to neutral with a slight elevation of bass (from memory). 


samandhi said:


> For the P1 (for my taste) I have found the best sound to be with a boosted sub-bass of about 5db, subtracted 4k about 2 or 3db and boosted upper treble of about 4db (to compensate for the illusion of warmth added by taking away 4k). This creates a nice W that is both fun AND analytic in nature, but still sort of warm with super clarity... Best I can describe it. You'll just have to give it a shot and listen... hehe
> 
> The UTWS3 is definitely on my radar now though, and I will have it at some point. Plus they are not that expensive. What was the cost of them when you bought them? I saw them on Shenzhanaudio for $79.


I got them for 79 from Amazon and the 2-pin variant for the same price on AliExpress. 


miserybeforethemusic said:


> Is that the MMCX-only version or the one that includes the 0.78mm adapters? $79 sounds like an insane deal.


The UTWS3 doesn’t really use adapters, the TRN is the one that has MMCX, 2-pin, etc. adapters. The UTWS3 comes as either MMCX or 2-pin.


----------



## C_Lindbergh (Mar 21, 2021)

pkcpga said:


> I think it’s all economy to scale and will target the customer they are looking for. I’d personally even spend a grand on a really good set of wireless headphones even if they were obsolete in two years.  But I also am willing to spend 6 figures on a car I know will last 5 years, so it all depends on what is considered an acceptable amount for the customer they are targeting and that’s varies drastically.  While TWS are interesting they are still by far the cheapest headphones I own, plus throw in regular headphones require a dap or dac/amp combo, cables.  Dac’s and Dap’s easily get older and usually get updated, less frequently then TWS’s but they generally cost a decent amount more.  Dap’s battery’s are generally harder to replace like iPhones or iPads.  I find it hard to believe customers who spend 5k plus on headphones, plus another 2-5k on dac/amp wouldn’t spend $500 on a TWS if it sounds enjoyable for on the go.


I highly doubt many people have this mindset, unless they are really wealthy.

Your comparisons are a bit weird imo, a car, iPhone, dac etc are all fairly easy to fix in case something goes wrong.

Whereas a TWS is much more difficult to fix given it sizes and lack of parts.

I really don't think Bowers and Wilkins will sell that many TWS if they price them +400€.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic (Mar 21, 2021)

Think I'm finally getting the hang of how these Noble Falcon Pro go in and out of my ears most easily. I've been playing around with then again for the past hour, a treat of sorts after dialing in the Neutralizer compensation on all the other TWS pairs.

Man, those things sing once the EQ is dialed in. So technically good, even if they're not the smoothest. They just have this crazy ability to handle fast bass, smooth bass, hard bass, synthetic bass, upright bass, and all the basses in between. Kick drums have that whooshing air sound that studio techs (and musicians) should be intimately familiar with. You can hear the difference in rebound noises on toms and snares. Between different zones on the ride cymbal. It's awesome.

They also seem to be ridiculously sensitive and, in this case, what's a con for me might be exactly what @Canabuc would consider worth high praise. I just have to run the phone at lower volume settings when I'm using the NFPs than I do with any other pair. For the life of me, I cannot run them at sustained periods of time at more than 50% in Neutron; they just become too energetic for me at that point. I do have a few different TWS foamies coming in that I can test to see if I can ca some of that treble energy down (as well as tame the driver flex).

Regardless, I don't know if that many other people are going to want to sit through the trial-and-error of figuring out the fit on these. AptX Adaptive sources are still relatively few and far between. Perhaps the Noble Falcon Pro is just a little ahead of its time, but I really think you can get these dialed in to a really fun, but really detailed experience.

This is going to remain my choice for the best TWS if raw sound quality is your only metric. Do ask about other qualifiers, though...these aren't the best all around (of what I've used)


----------



## bladefd

Canabuc said:


> Question for MT users. Do you prefer the white or black. I bought the black bit I'm wondering if I should have gone for the white. I prefer look of the white buds but was worried about the case getting dirty.
> 
> Opinions?


I went with white and case has been fine over 2 months. I also like that white is vegan-friendly. Makes me wonder what's in the black case that isn't in white. Regardless, I prefer how the white looks.


----------



## tiagopinto (Mar 21, 2021)

Canabuc said:


> Question for MT users. Do you prefer the white or black. I bought the black bit I'm wondering if I should have gone for the white. I prefer look of the white buds but was worried about the case getting dirty.
> 
> Opinions?



I got the black but have nothing against the white. I guess the notion of getting the tips and the fin bands dirty when mountain biking didn’t appeal to me. I do clean my black ones for sweat. I like both but definitely prefer the black.

Edit (after seeing more photos): I like both, honestly. The white also looks very premium, to me. I just went for the traditional option.


----------



## diimaan

miserybeforethemusic said:


> I've used SpinFit CP360 and the Final TWS tips. Prefer the stock ones as the changes to sound signature were negligible and they already have a really robust in-app EQ to tame any peaks. Don't think it's necessary, though.



Ahh, Thanks! I have the SpinFits! Most stock tips have questionable fit for me as I use Large on my right and medium on my left. Only for the Azla tips I use ML and M!
I have also ordered Azla Crystal Tips! Do they fit JBL?
The Azla support said they are best suited for GBPlus, so they might fit KEF's as well. I will post more once I get them


----------



## diimaan

samandhi said:


> I actually like the N6P tips with the MT also, but they won't fit into the case if I do.



For the KEF they fit the case quite well


----------



## clerkpalmer

pkcpga said:


> In the US, stores are taking preorders but they are called P15 not P17.  Same photo as supplied in your link but full details on them available if you look up P15, but no release date listed yet.  They also seem to not be running a new Bluetooth like 5.1 or 5.2 but


I think there are two different models.


miserybeforethemusic said:


> Think I'm finally getting the hang of how these Noble Falcon Pro go in and out of my ears most easily. I've been playing around with then again for the past hour, a treat of sorts after dialing in the Neutralizer compensation on all the other TWS pairs.
> 
> Man, those things sing once the EQ is dialed in. So technically good, even if they're not the smoothest. They just have this crazy ability to handle fast bass, smooth bass, hard bass, synthetic bass, upright bass, and all the basses in between. Kick drums have that whooshing air sound that studio techs (and musicians) should be intimately familiar with. You can hear the difference in rebound noises on toms and snares. Between different zones on the ride cymbal. It's awesome.
> 
> ...


care to share your for secrets. Mine are only good for stationary listening. Move an inch and the seal breaks. How far in are you pushing them?
On the topic of isines, I’ve owned the 10, 20 and i3, and the 10 is the best value of the bunch by a mile.


----------



## pkcpga

C_Lindbergh said:


> I highly doubt many people have this mindset, unless they are really wealthy.
> 
> Your comparisons are a bit weird imo, a car, iPhone, dac etc are all fairly easy to fix in case something goes wrong.
> 
> ...


In the US looks like they were going to be priced at $399, the Noble Falcon Pro’s are $329 and constantly sold out, including now again.  So I think there’s plenty of a market for them.  Just like the air pod Max’s everyone claim they were too expensive, still sold out everywhere.


----------



## pkcpga (Mar 21, 2021)

clerkpalmer said:


> I think there are two different models.
> 
> care to share your for secrets. Mine are only good for stationary listening. Move an inch and the seal breaks. How far in are you pushing them?
> On the topic of isines, I’ve owned the 10, 20 and i3, and the 10 is the best value of the bunch by a mile.


I went for a 5 mile jog this morning in my Falcon pro’s, no issue with seal.  They do sit fairly deep in your ear almost like a custom.  I did switch to comply foam tips, they seem to work much better for me.  I use small comply tips and let them go into the ear all the way until the housing touches my outer ear.  I’ve noticed if they don’t sit deep enough you loose some bass and details as well as move around, since they have a long inner ear part to them.  They seem to rely on depth for fit and sound over a hard seal.  If you haven’t worn custom IEMs before they definitely will take some getting used to.  I start with the longer part a little more horizontal and turn them a little counter clock wise when going in.


----------



## C_Lindbergh

pkcpga said:


> In the US looks like they were going to be priced at $399, the Noble Falcon Pro’s are $329 and constantly sold out, including now again.  So I think there’s plenty of a market for them.  Just like the air pod Max’s everyone claim they were too expensive, still sold out everywhere.



There's still quite a bit of difference between 329 USD and 399+, I can also imagine that Bowers and Wilkins needs to sell much more units than Noble audio in order for the product to be called a success.

Also you can't compare them with anything Apple releases, they probably have the strongest brand in the world. The Air Pods Max are over-ears as well, not TWS.


----------



## pkcpga

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Think I'm finally getting the hang of how these Noble Falcon Pro go in and out of my ears most easily. I've been playing around with then again for the past hour, a treat of sorts after dialing in the Neutralizer compensation on all the other TWS pairs.
> 
> Man, those things sing once the EQ is dialed in. So technically good, even if they're not the smoothest. They just have this crazy ability to handle fast bass, smooth bass, hard bass, synthetic bass, upright bass, and all the basses in between. Kick drums have that whooshing air sound that studio techs (and musicians) should be intimately familiar with. You can hear the difference in rebound noises on toms and snares. Between different zones on the ride cymbal. It's awesome.
> 
> ...


Glad you got them dialed in until your new tips come.  They really are the first TWS that have micro/macro detail and dynamics in bass as well as highs that I’ve heard.  Definitely no where near as smooth sounding as the Sennheiser’s rounded edges.  The comply tips do smooth out the highs a little, but lows stay with great speed and detail.


----------



## pkcpga (Mar 21, 2021)

C_Lindbergh said:


> There's still quite a bit of difference between 329 USD and 399+, I can also imagine that Bowers and Wilkins needs to sell much more units than Noble audio in order for the product to be called a success.
> 
> Also you can't compare them with anything Apple releases, they probably have the strongest brand in the world. The Air Pods Max are over-ears as well, not TWS.


I guess it all depends on how you view the price difference, it’s 7 trips to Starbucks, one weekly trip to the gas station, two months of my Tidal and Qobuz membership fee.  I feel many people today where I live view anything under $500 not as a large amount of money.  A week of my kids summer camp, one of my daughters horse shows both cost double that. It’s two months of my cable/wifi bill($225 a month).  Two months of my family wireless bill.  It costs more to open or close our pool, it’s about the same as heating the pool the first month it’s opened.  For B&W based on the number of $10-100k speakers they sell without issue, not sure they are worried about a $400 disposable iem selling due to price.  They seem to have no issue selling the $1,000 battery powered Bluetooth speaker, that they came out with a $4,000 version.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

pkcpga said:


> Glad you got them dialed in until your new tips come.  They really are the first TWS that have micro/macro detail and dynamics in bass as well as highs that I’ve heard.  Definitely no where near as smooth sounding as the Sennheiser’s rounded edges.  The comply tips do smooth out the highs a little, but lows stay with great speed and detail.


Ironically, the ER4XR and Etymotion combo sounded better out of the box. If someone's willing to deal with wires, I still suggest that (or the UTWS3 + dedicated IEMs) over the Noble as it's considerably less frustrating to get a good fit and that might be enough for most.


diimaan said:


> Ahh, Thanks! I have the SpinFits! Most stock tips have questionable fit for me as I use Large on my right and medium on my left. Only for the Azla tips I use ML and M!
> I have also ordered Azla Crystal Tips! Do they fit JBL?
> The Azla support said they are best suited for GBPlus, so they might fit KEF's as well. I will post more once I get them


As long as the stem on the Azla are short enough, you should be fine. The consistent issue I see is these tips designed for IEMs are just too long, which would be a major problem for deep-insertion pairs (they'd probably come off and get stuck). Since the JBL are a shallower fit, you should be okay either way.


clerkpalmer said:


> I think there are two different models.
> 
> care to share your for secrets. Mine are only good for stationary listening. Move an inch and the seal breaks. How far in are you pushing them?
> On the topic of isines, I’ve owned the 10, 20 and i3, and the 10 is the best value of the bunch by a mile.


I take advantage of the dimple on the shell and use that as a lever point. My insertion isn't IEM-deep and instead relies on the flat part of my outer ear holding the tip against the opening to my ear. using one hand to insert so they don't go in too deep and rotating the driver as I insert have also been a pretty big help. I then tame the first-bend resonances with EQ or things get really shouty.

And that's how it's going to be until the foamies arrive and I can actually insert these deeper. Every other technique I've tried so far results in driver flex or mismatches in FR between each ear. I'd much rather insert these deeper if I could, but it's just not practical at the moment.


----------



## Canabuc

bladefd said:


> I went with white and case has been fine over 2 months. I also like that white is vegan-friendly. Makes me wonder what's in the black case that isn't in white. Regardless, I prefer how the white looks.


White had been ordered!


----------



## SemiAudiophile

samandhi said:


> That was me (or at least I was one person). Now you have me super excited, as the P1 are ONE of my absolute favorite IEMs I own. Also one of, if not the most comfortable over time. Do give some impressions after you have listened to them for a time?!
> 
> I wasn't concerned so much about being able to drive them, because you can actually drive them pretty easily from a phone, but to drive them well, that is another matter altogether (the specs are super deceiving on these). I use the DX160 from 4.4mm balanced to get the 1.2W I need to drive them to potential. Otherwise they do get plenty loud, but are pretty darned flat and lifeless.
> 
> Edit: I was just looking at the specs on the UTWS3 and noticed that it only ouputs 38mw at 16ohms (which the P1 are 20ohms), but I found on my DX160 from SE (which is 600mw) they sound pretty lifeless. So, if you could do some comparisons with something that has some good power I would appreciate it (if you had the DX160 that would be ideal, at least for me haha)


Damn you guys...just added another IEM to the list I want to try out. 😝


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

For anybody who says the JBL Club Pro+ are weak in the subbass, my experience with this track begs to differ:

Certainly nothing new, but there's so many good textures in the midrange that a lot of V-shaped pairs will just kinda gloss over. Synth lines have snarl, you can hear the digital "oohs" in the background during the verse before things pan out to the choir. Really, a brilliant production when you dig into the details. But MAN do the kicks feel like they're pushing from inside your head outward and it's kinda fun...


----------



## Darkestred

the MT is a bit intriguing.  Can anyone do a quick comparison between the L2P?  Perhaps what they like over the other.  I really do not need another TWS.  Maybe i do...

i wouldnt mind a snug fitting TWS.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

Darkestred said:


> the MT is a bit intriguing.  Can anyone do a quick comparison between the L2P?  Perhaps what they like over the other.  I really do not need another TWS.  Maybe i do...
> 
> i wouldnt mind a snug fitting TWS.


What overall sound character do you prefer? Not sure what you do and don't like about the L2P, but I can try to steer you if you give me a little more information:

Have you tried anything else?
What do you wish what you had could do that it doesn't do?
What do you _not _want it to do?
How much do you have to spend?
How much do you want to spend?


----------



## Darkestred

miserybeforethemusic said:


> What overall sound character do you prefer? Not sure what you do and don't like about the L2P, but I can try to steer you if you give me a little more information:
> 
> Have you tried anything else?
> What do you wish what you had could do that it doesn't do?
> ...



Hmm.  Id say i like a U type graph/sound.  But, with more emphasis on mids.  I like the l2p quite a bit.  I wouldn't mind perhaps a better mid range presence as i think that is the weak point of the l2p.  

I currently own the L2P and Nuarl N6.  I've tried the Sony XM3 - which i liked but they were bought used and had more damage than id have liked (ebay) and at one point had the adv sound model x.

I'm more intrigued by new offerings as a whole.

Price isn't really an issue.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

Darkestred said:


> Hmm.  Id say i like a U type graph/sound.  But, with more emphasis on mids.  I like the l2p quite a bit.  I wouldn't mind perhaps a better mid range presence as i think that is the weak point of the l2p.
> 
> I currently own the L2P and Nuarl N6.  I've tried the Sony XM3 - which i liked but they were bought used and had more damage than id have liked (ebay) and at one point had the adv sound model x.
> 
> ...


If it's midrange emphasis you're really after, I think the MT will really appeal to you. Notice I didn't say midrange _detail_. The MT are still more towards the V/fun-shaped category in that respect, but the treble is rolled down enough that your eardrums aren't being pierced as the volume knob goes up.

Otherwise, you could consider the JBL Club Pro+ and spend some time getting the EQ dialed in just the way you want (though I love the way it sounds in stock form). I've been having a blast seeing just how much more midrange detail I can extract from these, but there's not much of a midbass hump to remove at this point. They're pretty fantastic, honestly. Just plagued by a HearThrough and ANC modes that don't seem to be doing much of anything.


----------



## Canabuc

miserybeforethemusic said:


> For anybody who says the JBL Club Pro+ are weak in the subbass, my experience with this track begs to differ:
> 
> Certainly nothing new, but there's so many good textures in the midrange that a lot of V-shaped pairs will just kinda gloss over. Synth lines have snarl, you can hear the digital "oohs" in the background during the verse before things pan out to the choir. Really, a brilliant production when you dig into the details. But MAN do the kicks feel like they're pushing from inside your head outward and it's kinda fun...




I thought bass and sub bass was a strength of the JBL. Found it deep yet still textured not boomy. Very impressive from small drivers.


----------



## Canabuc

Darkestred said:


> the MT is a bit intriguing.  Can anyone do a quick comparison between the L2P?  Perhaps what they like over the other.  I really do not need another TWS.  Maybe i do...
> 
> i wouldnt mind a snug fitting TWS.



MT are a bit warmer with less sibilant treble and similar soundstage. They are more comfortable and have ambient mode.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

Canabuc said:


> I thought bass and sub bass was a strength of the JBL. Found it deep yet still textured not boomy. Very impressive from small drivers.


Thought I remembered you mentioning it wasn't enough for you. Maybe it was somebody else. Agreed; one heck of a driver and tuning they chose to use here.


----------



## Canabuc

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Thought I remembered you mentioning it wasn't enough for you. Maybe it was somebody else. Agreed; one heck of a driver and tuning they chose to use here.


No for me the issue was that the ANC was worthless and the fit was not secure despite all the tips I tried. The sound was great for me.
Just didn't see a point over the MT for what they offered.


----------



## pkcpga

Darkestred said:


> Hmm.  Id say i like a U type graph/sound.  But, with more emphasis on mids.  I like the l2p quite a bit.  I wouldn't mind perhaps a better mid range presence as i think that is the weak point of the l2p.
> 
> I currently own the L2P and Nuarl N6.  I've tried the Sony XM3 - which i liked but they were bought used and had more damage than id have liked (ebay) and at one point had the adv sound model x.
> 
> ...


You might like the Sennheiser Momentum, they do have a nice mid range.  Only thing you have to not mind is they have poor timing and rolled highs.  They have a pleasing sound, my wife loves them.  The timing between the bass and the rest of the spectrum kind of bothers me.  The treble rolls a bit so it’s quick and mids are mostly natural and warm but lows/bass are slow/methodical and their impact start and end do not line up well with the rest of the range.  Almost like the band is slightly out of sync.  It’s only a little off but surprises me that Sennheiser let that pass.  Definitely more like a warm tube listen then a toe tapping listen.  Again my wife likes them much better then her 75t they replaced.


----------



## pkcpga

Darkestred said:


> Hmm.  Id say i like a U type graph/sound.  But, with more emphasis on mids.  I like the l2p quite a bit.  I wouldn't mind perhaps a better mid range presence as i think that is the weak point of the l2p.
> 
> I currently own the L2P and Nuarl N6.  I've tried the Sony XM3 - which i liked but they were bought used and had more damage than id have liked (ebay) and at one point had the adv sound model x.
> 
> ...


The Sony xm3 have a less warm mid range then the Sennheiser’s, the Sony’s have more bloat in the upper bass for impact but definitely drier sounding vocals and a bit more extension of highs then the Sennheiser’s.


----------



## Canabuc

Not to beat a dead horse but as an all arounders with great mids the freebuds pro


----------



## Darkestred

miserybeforethemusic said:


> If it's midrange emphasis you're really after, I think the MT will really appeal to you. Notice I didn't say midrange _detail_. The MT are still more towards the V/fun-shaped category in that respect, but the treble is rolled down enough that your eardrums aren't being pierced as the volume knob goes up.
> 
> Otherwise, you could consider the JBL Club Pro+ and spend some time getting the EQ dialed in just the way you want (though I love the way it sounds in stock form). I've been having a blast seeing just how much more midrange detail I can extract from these, but there's not much of a midbass hump to remove at this point. They're pretty fantastic, honestly. Just plagued by a HearThrough and ANC modes that don't seem to be doing much of anything.


They've sort of been on my radar.  Definitely making me curious.  Never thought much of the JBL Club Pro+.  May need to do some research on that one.  Thank you.


Canabuc said:


> MT are a bit warmer with less sibilant treble and similar soundstage. They are more comfortable and have ambient mode.


I like that.  Thank you.


pkcpga said:


> You might like the Sennheiser Momentum, they do have a nice mid range.  Only thing you have to not mind is they have poor timing and rolled highs.  They have a pleasing sound, my wife loves them.  The timing between the bass and the rest of the spectrum kind of bothers me.  The treble rolls a bit so it’s quick and mids are mostly natural and warm but lows/bass are slow/methodical and their impact start and end do not line up well with the rest of the range.  Almost like the band is slightly out of sync.  It’s only a little off but surprises me that Sennheiser let that pass.  Definitely more like a warm tube listen then a toe tapping listen.  Again my wife likes them much better then her 75t they replaced.


Eek.  Too many negatives imo and im not a fan of Senn in general. Thank you!


----------



## bladefd

pkcpga said:


> I guess it all depends on how you view the price difference, it’s 7 trips to Starbucks, one weekly trip to the gas station, two months of my Tidal and Qobuz membership fee.  I feel many people today where I live view anything under $500 not as a large amount of money.  A week of my kids summer camp, one of my daughters horse shows both cost double that. It’s two months of my cable/wifi bill($225 a month).  Two months of my family wireless bill.  It costs more to open or close our pool, it’s about the same as heating the pool the first month it’s opened.  For B&W based on the number of $10-100k speakers they sell without issue, not sure they are worried about a $400 disposable iem selling due to price.  They seem to have no issue selling the $1,000 battery powered Bluetooth speaker, that they came out with a $4,000 version.


It's very difficult to justify spending $400 (plus taxes on top) for an audio device (TWS) that will last 3yrs max. If you buy $1,000 speakers, they will probably last many years, perhaps a decade. I have been to airbnb with speakers 20-30yrs old. Quality speakers can last decades and battery would at least be replaceable on speakers. I don't think TWS batteries can be replaced afaik


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

bladefd said:


> It's very difficult to justify spending $400 (plus taxes on top) for an audio device (TWS) that will last 3yrs max. If you buy $1,000 speakers, they will probably last many years, perhaps a decade. I have been to airbnb with speakers 20-30yrs old. Quality speakers can last decades and battery would at least be replaceable on speakers. I don't think TWS batteries can be replaced afaik


Most of them can't. Apple pretty much set the trend for completely awful user serviceability and they were part of the chorus that ushered in planned obsolescence, too.

Sparing the soapbox, I'll just say that I'm aware not everybody shares the same priorities on their purchases. That $400, with a mean time to fail of a few years or less, is still more than acceptable for some people in this hobby. The tech changes rapidly enough to permit this, in all fairness, which in turn tends to fuel the hobby. There's tradeoffs to making these casings user-serviceable as well, which is what you'd need to facilitate changing out the batteries: form factor. There's a reason engineers and designers tend to constantly be butting heads. One person's bulletproof construction and easy access is another's unsightly and unaesthetic mess. The trick to a good product is just how well they come to an agreement.


----------



## bladefd (Mar 21, 2021)

miserybeforethemusic said:


> For anybody who says the JBL Club Pro+ are weak in the subbass, my experience with this track begs to differ:
> 
> Certainly nothing new, but there's so many good textures in the midrange that a lot of V-shaped pairs will just kinda gloss over. Synth lines have snarl, you can hear the digital "oohs" in the background during the verse before things pan out to the choir. Really, a brilliant production when you dig into the details. But MAN do the kicks feel like they're pushing from inside your head outward and it's kinda fun...



Great song to test. That is one of the songs I use to test all my headphones/TWS. It's great for testing details, soundstage, mids, instruments and vocals imo.

It sounds heavenly on my Sennheiser HD600. So luscious, full and detailed..


----------



## Canabuc

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Most of them can't. Apple pretty much set the trend for completely awful user serviceability and they were part of the chorus that ushered in planned obsolescence, too.
> 
> Sparing the soapbox, I'll just say that I'm aware not everybody shares the same priorities on their purchases. That $400, with a mean time to fail of a few years or less, is still more than acceptable for some people in this hobby. The tech changes rapidly enough to permit this, in all fairness, which in turn tends to fuel the hobby. There's tradeoffs to making these casings user-serviceable as well, which is what you'd need to facilitate changing out the batteries: form factor. There's a reason engineers and designers tend to constantly be butting heads. One person's bulletproof construction and easy access is another's unsightly and unaesthetic mess. The trick to a good product is just how well they come to an agreement.



I have no problem ponying up for nice speakers and my monitor audios were reasonable price and are going on 15 years and work as well and look as good as day 1.

My p7w headphones work great still.

Earbuds over time especially tws change so much that anything over 2 to 3 years old just can't keep up sound quality wise. Technology improvements in miniature drivers, battery Bluetooth etc has changed alot in 3 years.
2 years ago I couldn't watch videos with tws because the lip sync issues were horrendous and battery life was terrible.
My Jabra 65t were great with their 3 hour battery life and mediocre sound and decent lip sync.

This is why I don't want to invest heavily on tws price wise as I know that amazing pair I spent 300$ next year will be outclassed by one that cost less than half thatnand with more features to boot.

To each their own. If you have the money by all means spend it on what makes you happy. But for me I get peeved when I spend good coin on something and a year later it is not so great comparatively.

My MacBook pro I got in 2012 and payed a fortune still is capable now. My Sony TV is going on 6 years and works as well as day one but will soon be replaced by a bigger newer gen model.
I also look at the use case for earbuds over headphones and speakers. 
If they were going to be my only source of audio listening, then yes get me the best most expensive pair as it will get used everywhere and for everything.
Bit at home I listen in speakers 15% Headphones tv or music about 40%. My earbuds the rest. And even there I sue different ones for different purposes. 
Freebuds pro are for work commuting and casual listening and can be good for exercise or just detailed listening too, but the MT are my main exercise bids or if I want a different musical sound to the more clear sound of the Huawei.


----------



## bronco1015

Haven't been in this thread for a few days, but wanted to pop in and share initial impressions of the lypertek SoundFree S20, AKA Lypertek levi. Wireless charging isn't working on either of my Qi chargers. Case is smallish but cheap feeling. More that it feels like a step backwards from the Tevi's case.
Iems are comfortable for me to wear and have a round button on the side so no pressing a button and jamming them further inside the ear canal.
Ambient mode exists but is underwhelming even for the price. Treble is to harsh imo and mids for the most part are to far forward. middBass feels rough. Not sloppy, but poorly textured.
if it were me, I would have released a successor to the Tevi along with this budget model. just releasing the levi doesn't feel like a good step forward. First impressions and all, but imo these suck. not worth the time.
https://www.lypertek.com/product-page/lypertek-levi-truly-wireless-earphones


----------



## bladefd

BTW- Melomania Touch is currently $130 on Amazon (at least in USA)

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B08KK94ZDG/


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

bronco1015 said:


> Haven't been in this thread for a few days, but wanted to pop in and share initial impressions of the lypertek SoundFree S20, AKA Lypertek levi. Wireless charging isn't working on either of my Qi chargers. Case is smallish but cheap feeling. More that it feels like a step backwards from the Tevi's case.
> Iems are comfortable for me to wear and have a round button on the side so no pressing a button and jamming them further inside the ear canal.
> Ambient mode exists but is underwhelming even for the price. Treble is to harsh imo and mids for the most part are to far forward. middBass feels rough. Not sloppy, but poorly textured.
> if it were me, I would have released a successor to the Tevi along with this budget model. just releasing the levi doesn't feel like a good step forward. First impressions and all, but imo these suck. not worth the time.
> https://www.lypertek.com/product-page/lypertek-levi-truly-wireless-earphones


What a bummer. The Tevi was received well; wonder why the step backwards?

Still waiting on the TWS1 Pro. Think they're stateside, at least. Hopefully they'll get here by the end of the week. MTs also went out for RMA, but looks like Cambridge uses a third party based on who it's getting sent to. Fingers crossed the whole process goes smoothly enough; I'd really be frustrated if they just sent the same pair back, but my experience so far hasn't implied that'll be the case.


----------



## Canabuc

miserybeforethemusic said:


> What a bummer. The Tevi was received well; wonder why the step backwards?
> 
> Still waiting on the TWS1 Pro. Think they're stateside, at least. Hopefully they'll get here by the end of the week. MTs also went out for RMA, but looks like Cambridge uses a third party based on who it's getting sent to. Fingers crossed the whole process goes smoothly enough; I'd really be frustrated if they just sent the same pair back, but my experience so far hasn't implied that'll be the case.


Why you rma the MT? Thought firmware update fixed your issue?


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

Canabuc said:


> Why you rma the MT? Thought firmware update fixed your issue?


Volume issue showed back up again and it started to happen as soon as the buds came out of the case. Figured maybe there was a faulty chip somewhere, so I'll just go with the RMA process instead and hope a new set manages to take care of the issue.

I miss them already.


----------



## Canabuc

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Volume issue showed back up again and it started to happen as soon as the buds came out of the case. Figured maybe there was a faulty chip somewhere, so I'll just go with the RMA process instead and hope a new set manages to take care of the issue.
> 
> I miss them already.


What volume issue? I have an issue where when first taken or of the case the volume seems to drop to 50% of normal and I have to raise it back. But once connected it doesn't happen again.
It's that the issue or something else?


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

Canabuc said:


> What volume issue? I have an issue where when first taken or of the case the volume seems to drop to 50% of normal and I have to raise it back. But once connected it doesn't happen again.
> It's that the issue or something else?


Something else. Problem manifests in three ways:

I remove one of the buds from the case and volume starts jumping all over the place; this will continue until I put the buds back in and let them soft-reset.
I'm listening to music with one or both buds in and attempt to use volume control on the phone. The same issue with erratic volume mentioned in (1) occur again.
I attempt to adjust volume by phone and volume control rejects my entries (I mean literally rejects them...I see it bounce in the direction I select, then back to original).
Hard-resetting didn't work and disabling absolute volume only compounded the issue as everything was out of whack gain-wise. So I'm thinking it's an issue with how the buds are communicating with each other or between themselves and the device, even with the TWS+ stuff at work in the background. Regardless, I figured it was worth an escalation after I saw this stuff resurface after a couple days on the new firmware.


----------



## MCPT

Canabuc said:


> Question for MT users. Do you prefer the white or black. I bought the black bit I'm wondering if I should have gone for the white. I prefer look of the white buds but was worried about the case getting dirty.
> 
> Opinions?


I was torn between the black and white as well because I liked the white earbuds but didn't want to risk the white case getting dirty.  I ended up buying the black case and white earbuds separately from the Cambridge store.  The total cost was still $150, but I was able to get exactly what I wanted.  I also think the contrast between the white buds and black case looks great.  

The only downside was that the buds and case are shipped in very basic boxes without the original packaging that you would get from buying all one color.  I really like the sound of the MT, but I was having the frequent connection issues that others experienced.  I sent back the original white buds and have a replacement pair on the way.  I'm hoping that the new pair doesn't have the connection issues, because I really like the MT otherwise.


----------



## MCPT

Darkestred said:


> the MT is a bit intriguing.  Can anyone do a quick comparison between the L2P?  Perhaps what they like over the other.  I really do not need another TWS.  Maybe i do...
> 
> i wouldnt mind a snug fitting TWS.


I owned the L2P just before I bought the MT.  I found that they both had their strengths, but for sound quality, I much prefer the MT.

My quick breakdown between the two would be as follows:
L2P Pro's

Fit - for me the fin did an excellent job of holding them in place with little to no effort.  The MT take more effort to get a good fit and tend to lose their seal sometimes if I move my jaw.
Stability.  I never had a problem with the connection of the L2P.  I was able to switch between just one bud or both buds without an issue.  The MT on the other hand haven't stayed stable when I switch between the use of just the left or right earbud.  Even when using both for music, I have had multiple connection issues.  In fact, I needed to RMA the first pair and I'm waiting on delivery of the replacement pair.  
Case - very quick insertion and removal of buds from case.  I found the sliding door on the top to be very practical and the buds consistenly landed where they were supposed to and charged without issues.  The MT take more care when placing in the case and sometimes one of the earbuds won't charge unless you take a moment to ensure that the red light flashes.
MT Pro's

Sound.  I find the MT's to have excellent deep, but tight bass and smoother treble while still being pretty detailed.  I felt the need to EQ both buds, but I was able to get a very enjoyable sound from the MT as I felt they responded better to EQ.  Although the L2P's have a full sound, I found the treble to be harsh to my ears.  If I used the EQ to tame what I perceived to be the harshness, the sound became distant and uninvolving.  I tried all of the "Pro EQ options", but none of them sounded natural to me.  I also listen to a lot of podcasts and I found the L2P's to have the same metallic harshness with many voices during the podcasts.  When I found myself using cheap wired buds to avoid the harshness that I was hearing in the L2P's, I knew they needed to go back.  I've had no concerns with the sound of the MT's.  In fact, I've had moments where the sound from the MT's was so good (especially the deep bass) that I briefly forgot that I was listening to earbuds.  They won't replace my iSine 20's, but they are very enjoyable.
I'm hoping that my replacement MT are a lot more stable.  If not, I will be on the search again.  If they're stable, then I won't feel the urge to buy another pair as I really find the sound to be very enjoyable for a TWS.


----------



## turbobb

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Still waiting on the TWS1 Pro. Think they're stateside, at least. Hopefully they'll get here by the end of the week.


Am very interested to hear your thoughts on these - at this point I'm trying to stay w/BT 5.2 or Adaptive and this one ticks both boxes.


----------



## Darkestred (Mar 22, 2021)

MCPT said:


> I owned the L2P just before I bought the MT.  I found that they both had their strengths, but for sound quality, I much prefer the MT.
> 
> My quick breakdown between the two would be as follows:
> L2P Pro's
> ...




Thank you very much for this write-up.  I went and bought them off amazon earlier.  Seems to be the "best" discount yet on them.   I had about 60 bucks in gift cards and rewards.  I need a good workout pair and maybe they'll become a more go to.  I agree on the L2P sounding metallic-like.  At least in the treble.  I personally like the treble but it feels a bit artificial or fake sounding.

I hope not to see any of the early issues or common issues, as well.  *Fingers crossed*

if not, maybe the JBL club pro+ as mentioned to me.


----------



## mymail0808

Hi;

When I pair the Soundpeats H1 with the Hiby R3 pro and the connection is never be as good as connection to phone (redmi T9 pro), no matter what codec I selected, it drops a lot and a lot, for seconds every time. This happens with all my TWS IEM, Mpow, Lypertek levi, Fiil T1x, ... DAP pioneer XDP-300R or R3pro....

Anything else I could do?

Second question is about sound quality.
While using TWS IEM and the DAP/Phone is not using the chipset which output to the headphone jack. It is using another chipset for bluetooth to send the sound to the TWS, right? In this case, no matter how good that the DAP output sound to the , say 3.5mm jack, the sound should be same as phone if the bluetooth chips same? The tuning is only depends on the TWS IEM? if yes and seems really no point to use a DAP for this purpose. OR my understanding is wrong??

People using TWS IEM here only use their phone for music?


----------



## Caipirina

Canabuc said:


> Listening to this song with freebuds pro and wow. It's like I'm feeling the background best. I'm loving these buds. Is go as far to say if I only had to own 1 earbud right now if take these over the Sennheiser Jabra Sony or JBL or MT. Just wish they had in app EQ.



I knew I recognized that bass line!


----------



## davidcotton

Canabuc said:


> What volume issue? I have an issue where when first taken or of the case the volume seems to drop to 50% of normal and I have to raise it back. But once connected it doesn't happen again.
> It's that the issue or something else?


Imagine that’s a safety thing, to stop your ears being blown.


----------



## C_Lindbergh (Mar 22, 2021)

I'm still having issues with my CA MT's... Sometimes both earbuds wont connect when taken out of the case, and other times one of the earbuds wont charge properly.

All the other branded TWS I've owned just works, that's one of the big upsides with TWS.

Thinking of returning the MT's, their convenience factor is just too bad compared to others, despite the awesome sound and comfort.

It's just ridiculous that Cambridge Audio are having these issues with their product in 2021, it's not like TWS are a new product type any more.  Something went very wrong at some point during the product development, it's also very strange that they didn't catch all these problems during the test phase.

Feels like Sennheiser MTW gen 1 all over again...They sound great and all, but there's some major technical difficultis that kills the product.


----------



## samandhi

mymail0808 said:


> Hi;
> 
> When I pair the Soundpeats H1 with the Hiby R3 pro and the connection is never be as good as connection to phone (redmi T9 pro), no matter what codec I selected, it drops a lot and a lot, for seconds every time. This happens with all my TWS IEM, Mpow, Lypertek levi, Fiil T1x, ... DAP pioneer XDP-300R or R3pro....
> 
> ...


It sounds like you have an issue with the Hiby itself. Problem is that it COULD be software related, or it could be the hardware. I know that DAPs (even the best of them) cannot usually match the hardware of a good flagship phone, except for the amp/DAC section (which is where they focus more anyhow). Things such as wifi, BT, cpu, the OS itself, are usually only just functional because they focus (almost) exclusively on the sound that it is capable of making. There are of course exceptions to this rule of thumb. 

You are absolutely right. The phone/DAP etc... is only used for transporting the music to the amp/DAC of the TWS. So, if there is no DSP being done at the source, any source you play music from should sound exactly the same as any other.


----------



## Kuli

C_Lindbergh said:


> I'm still having issues with my CA MT's... Sometimes both earbuds wont connect when taken out of the case, and other times one of the earbuds wont charge properly.
> 
> All the other branded TWS I've owned just works, that's one of the big upsides with TWS.
> 
> ...


I returned mine. It was a huge disappointment, felt very half baked and rushed


----------



## C_Lindbergh (Mar 22, 2021)

Kuli said:


> I returned mine. It was a huge disappointment, felt very half baked and rushed



At this point I doubt that CA can fix them via software updates, it seems to be an inherent design problem.

I'm not that tech savy, but I do find it odd that Melomania shows up as L and R in the bluetooth menu instead as a single pair like most other TWS.

I'll give them until my return window is up.


----------



## Canabuc (Mar 22, 2021)

C_Lindbergh said:


> At this point I doubt that CA can fix them via software updates, it seems to be an inherent design problem.
> 
> I'm not that tech savy, but I do find it odd that Melomania shows up as L and R in the bluetooth menu instead as a single pair like most other TWS.
> 
> I'll give them until my return window is up.


the L2P do also.
I am in a newer Samsung phone and have had no connection issues with mine after the initial firmware updates. What are you pairing yours to?


----------



## mymail0808

samandhi said:


> It sounds like you have an issue with the Hiby itself. Problem is that it COULD be software related, or it could be the hardware. I know that DAPs (even the best of them) cannot usually match the hardware of a good flagship phone, except for the amp/DAC section (which is where they focus more anyhow). Things such as wifi, BT, cpu, the OS itself, are usually only just functional because they focus (almost) exclusively on the sound that it is capable of making. There are of course exceptions to this rule of thumb.
> 
> You are absolutely right. The phone/DAP etc... is only used for transporting the music to the amp/DAC of the TWS. So, if there is no DSP being done at the source, any source you play music from should sound exactly the same as any other.


Thanks a lot


So the best way to improve the sound quality is get the right earbud, even with my china phone


----------



## Luke Skywalker

C_Lindbergh said:


> I guess, but a phone and tablet are both pretty easy to replace the battery. So even if the tech falls behind they're still usable years after launch.
> 
> Personally I doubt I'd wanna spent the money that Bowers & Wilkins might charge for thr P17. Unless there's an easy way to replace the battery.


Yeah, how sweet would it be if someone comes out with a TWS w/ replaceable batteries?  I'm into flashlights and I have one with a 10180 battery that's so small I can barely hold it in my hand without dropping it.


----------



## Luke Skywalker

Darkestred said:


> Hmm.  Id say i like a U type graph/sound.  But, with more emphasis on mids.  I like the l2p quite a bit.  I wouldn't mind perhaps a better mid range presence as i think that is the weak point of the l2p.
> 
> I currently own the L2P and Nuarl N6.  I've tried the Sony XM3 - which i liked but they were bought used and had more damage than id have liked (ebay) and at one point had the adv sound model x.
> 
> ...


I love my N6Ps.  Best sound of all my TWS (Jabra 65t, crappy XM3s...) but they truly do not compare to the KEF mu3s.


----------



## pkcpga

mymail0808 said:


> Hi;
> 
> When I pair the Soundpeats H1 with the Hiby R3 pro and the connection is never be as good as connection to phone (redmi T9 pro), no matter what codec I selected, it drops a lot and a lot, for seconds every time. This happens with all my TWS IEM, Mpow, Lypertek levi, Fiil T1x, ... DAP pioneer XDP-300R or R3pro....
> 
> ...


Unfortunately it all depends on what Bluetooth chip was used and how it’s implemented (codec), nothing to do with the devices internal dac.  Just the two Bluetooth chips and their ability to share and translate that information.  The better the two devices communicate (codec same language and better rates), the better the quality of the music can be.  With chips that use AAC primarily, Apple devices tend to be better since Apple doesn’t restrict the power supply with Bluetooth the way many Android devices do to lengthen battery life.  Strange because Apple bottlenecks it’s lightning port with low power use through it for dongle dacs but not it’s Bluetooth, while Android seems to do the exact opposite.  Part of the reason my Bluetooth headsets require lower volume levels through my iPhone then through my Fiio m15.  Although the Fiio m15 plays Apt X HD to my Falcon Pro’s which I like better then AAC with the Falcon Pro’s.


----------



## Darkestred

Luke Skywalker said:


> I love my N6Ps.  Best sound of all my TWS (Jabra 65t, crappy XM3s...) but they truly do not compare to the KEF mu3s.


N6Ps do sound nice but their design sucks.  Those are relegated to movie watching.

I did notice the kefs.  Ive seen very bad call quality.  How has your experience been?


----------



## Aevum

the chipset thing is annoying. 

I got some cheap soundpeats for sleeping and podcasts, didnt think i need much. 

so you have Qualcomm, Realtek and Mediatek now with chipsets, and unless you get something qualcomm powered or something from Sony, its going to be just SBC and AAC and the latency will suck. and were seing a lot of manufacturers saving a buck or two getting the realtek or Mediatek chipset so they can skip on the aptx license, so they are great for music, but as soon as you watch a video o try to follow a clip on youtube. screw it.


----------



## C_Lindbergh (Mar 22, 2021)

Aevum said:


> the chipset thing is annoying.
> 
> I got some cheap soundpeats for sleeping and podcasts, didnt think i need much.
> 
> so you have Qualcomm, Realtek and Mediatek now with chipsets, and unless you get something qualcomm powered or something from Sony, its going to be just SBC and AAC and the latency will suck. and were seing a lot of manufacturers saving a buck or two getting the realtek or Mediatek chipset so they can skip on the aptx license, so they are great for music, but as soon as you watch a video o try to follow a clip on youtube. screw it.



That's what the Bluetooth SIG are trying to solve with Bluetooth Audio LE and their LC3 codec, hopefully the market will look quite different in 2-3 years 

Such a shame about the time frame tho, LC3 was announced at CES 2020, but we still don't have a single device with it. I'm sure the whole COVID-situation played a big part in the delay.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

Aevum said:


> the chipset thing is annoying.


Supremely. I'm more annoyed because the so-called "leaps" in tech improvement due to poor implementation seem like either lateral or downward moves as far as stability is concerned.  I had high hopes for LDAC, but getting a consistently-high bitrate is a constant problem. Seems aptX Adaptive isn't that far off.

To date, I still think aptX HD was as good as it got all around, meaning that's what I'll look for if I can help it. Your options are severely limited for HD, though, and it's really unfortunate that it's been so overlooked these days. Pretty sure only the Etymotion cable will do it; while the NFP are technically backwards-compatible with legacy aptX codecs, aptX HD is somehow not selectable in Development Options.

So, yeah, it's a mess.


----------



## Darkestred

C_Lindbergh said:


> At this point I doubt that CA can fix them via software updates, it seems to be an inherent design problem.
> 
> I'm not that tech savy, but I do find it odd that Melomania shows up as L and R in the bluetooth menu instead as a single pair like most other TWS.
> 
> I'll give them until my return window is up.




As the guy below you mentioned.  There are some newer offerings that still do this.  I too also wonder how different phone types play into issues people have and dont have. Every bluetooth solution has worked without hiccups on my note 10.  My friends LG G6...not so much.  Im hoping its the same when my CA MTs arrive this week.


----------



## tiagopinto

pkcpga said:


> I used to love my hd280’s, I had them in college.



Still use my pair when I DJ (very seldom lately). I very much need to replace my earpads though.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

Darkestred said:


> As the guy below you mentioned.  There are some newer offerings that still do this.  I too also wonder how different phone types play into issues people have and dont have. Every bluetooth solution has worked without hiccups on my note 10.  My friends LG G6...not so much.  Im hoping its the same when my CA MTs arrive this week.


Fingers crossed for your sake. My issues are on a OnePlus 8T and may have been linked to a firmware update that didn't take quite well the first time. My suggestion is remain patient and be prepared to hard-reset the buds a time or two if you hit a dead end.


tiagopinto said:


> Still use my pair when I DJ (very seldom lately). I very much need to replace my earpads though.


Gave mine to the movers a while back when I realized how many pairs I had to have them box up. Figured it was the least I could do. I'm sure they really appreciated it.


----------



## Aevum

im wondering if i should pick up the MTW300 from Shanling, the MTW100 was quite nice and it has a APTX capable chipset.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

Aevum said:


> im wondering if i should pick up the MTW300 from Shanling, the MTW100 was quite nice and it has a APTX capable chipset.


Only experienced their DAPs, which I thought were a pretty darn good value. I also like that they're relatively active on Head-Fi, meaning you're more likely to have your grievances heard.

Hope they fit well. Specs look pretty good. Based on what I'm seeing regarding sound signature, you're looking at Chi-Fi V-shaped tuning; how extreme is the question. Caught these initial impressions in the announcement thread:


> I don't want to comment to much on sound since it's still not burned it. But out of the box and with 1h playing time they already sound good. Have no obvious pitfall. Imaging is good, soundstage also good. Generally a fun slightly V tuned frequency response. Although again they need some burn in, they sound bit "loose" and bit harsh high frequencies.


Could probably EQ out the trouble zones, but this sounds like they could have spent more on the driver itself than they did.


----------



## Darkestred

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Fingers crossed for your sake. My issues are on a OnePlus 8T and may have been linked to a firmware update that didn't take quite well the first time. My suggestion is remain patient and be prepared to hard-reset the buds a time or two if you hit a dead end.
> 
> Gave mine to the movers a while back when I realized how many pairs I had to have them box up. Figured it was the least I could do. I'm sure they really appreciated it.



The adv sound model x had similar issues as you and pulling them out doing a special reset and then placing them back in the case and then out only to do it again 3 days later was not fun.  If there is any remote chance i have to do this more than once in a week - back they go.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

Darkestred said:


> The adv sound model x had similar issues as you and pulling them out doing a special reset and then placing them back in the case and then out only to do it again 3 days later was not fun.  If there is any remote chance i have to do this more than once in a week - back they go.


Don't think you'll do it on a periodic cycle. My point was more that it might take a couple initial resets to stave off the gremlins for good. I think Cambridge agrees this might be necessary as well, which is why they now pack in a card with hard reset instructions in the retail package.

My issue is most likely hardware-based and unrelated to what other people seem to be encountering. I hold no ill will towards Cambridge, either. They've been really easy to deal with throughout all of this.


----------



## turbobb

miserybeforethemusic said:


> I don't usually think about Jabra, either. I almost forgot to recommend them, but maybe the EA75t's fun tuning helps. Still surprises me that I find myself reaching for them more than the 85t during the workday, even on days where I know I won't be taking any calls.


I initially ordered the 85t as an all-arounder but later tested my friend's pair and wasn't too keen on the tuning (treble was a bit rolled off for my tastes but aside from that, just sounded a bit flat) so my set is still sitting BNIB (will be putting them up 4sale). Took advantage of a coupon and got the EA75t refurb'd due to your vouching for them and the mention of fun tuning - these things are the "bee's knees", "cat's pajamas" and whatever quips you'd care to throw at them, granted due to the fun tuning, the bass out of the box is a bit more than I care for but easily tweaked via EQ. Thx!


----------



## Canabuc

turbobb said:


> I initially ordered the 85t as an all-arounder but later tested my friend's pair and wasn't too keen on the tuning (treble was a bit rolled off for my tastes but aside from that, just sounded a bit flat) so my set is still sitting BNIB (will be putting them up 4sale). Took advantage of a coupon and got the EA75t refurb'd due to your vouching for them and the mention of fun tuning - these things are the "bee's knees", "cat's pajamas" and whatever quips you'd care to throw at them, granted due to the fun tuning, the bass out of the box is a bit more than I care for but easily tweaked via EQ. Thx!



How much you pay?


----------



## clerkpalmer

turbobb said:


> I initially ordered the 85t as an all-arounder but later tested my friend's pair and wasn't too keen on the tuning (treble was a bit rolled off for my tastes but aside from that, just sounded a bit flat) so my set is still sitting BNIB (will be putting them up 4sale). Took advantage of a coupon and got the EA75t refurb'd due to your vouching for them and the mention of fun tuning - these things are the "bee's knees", "cat's pajamas" and whatever quips you'd care to throw at them, granted due to the fun tuning, the bass out of the box is a bit more than I care for but easily tweaked via EQ. Thx!


Got mine today. Listening to them now. Definitely a punchy and energetic sound. I dialed the bass down and the treble up a bit. With the ANC update and for 80 bucks hard to complain. Fit is really nice. Small and just disappear.


----------



## turbobb

@Canabuc - was $79.99 - $10 coupon - I see it now dropped to $74.99 (includes 2 yr warranty from Allstate due to being certified refurb'd - caveat emptor they share your info as a trade-off but I already have a bunch of Sq. Trade contracts)

@clerkpalmer - yes, the comfort is great and love the multi-point (albeit I get a few interrupts on PC every now and then), ANC, transparency mode, IPX7, etc. etc. IMO, it's fantastic bang for the buck with the included warranty.


----------



## jant71

Behold the future...




X77 (tentative name)" is said to be a high-performance complete wireless earphone belonging to the high-end class in the NUARL lineup, and in addition to Snapdragon Sound, compatible devices are expected to be released in 2021 "LE audio (LC3)" ) ”, And plans to support cooperation with various services such as music and telephone calls.        

In addition, specifications such as adoption of the original dynamic driver, support for Adaptive Active Noise Canceling, and installation of a hear-through function have been clarified.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

jant71 said:


> Behold the future...
> 
> X77 (tentative name)" is said to be a high-performance complete wireless earphone belonging to the high-end class in the NUARL lineup, and in addition to Snapdragon Sound, compatible devices are expected to be released in 2021 "LE audio (LC3)" ) ”, And plans to support cooperation with various services such as music and telephone calls.
> 
> In addition, specifications such as adoption of the original dynamic driver, support for Adaptive Active Noise Canceling, and installation of a hear-through function have been clarified.


Woah they need a better advertising firm.

So same driver, better ANC, and HearThrough? What's so revolutionary?


----------



## jant71 (Mar 22, 2021)

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Woah they need a better advertising firm.
> 
> So same driver, better ANC, and HearThrough? What's so revolutionary?


Original driver(ignore the bad Google translation) meaning new and not the same and Snapdragon with LE audio/LC3. They should be in the know so the compatible devices to be released in 2021 is a nice tidbit.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

jant71 said:


> Original driver(ignore the bad Google translation) meaning new and not the same and Snapdragon with LE audio/LC3. They should be in the know so the compatible devices to be released in 2021 is a nice tidbit.


I mean I've been hearing the buzz about Snapdragon jumping into the codec realm, but thought they were a far cry off from implementing. Any idea if there's existing silicon this will be compatible with?
I'm just worried this is also going to go the way of HiBy's wireless codec; important only in its small ecosystem.


----------



## SilverEars

jant71 said:


> Behold the future...
> 
> X77 (tentative name)" is said to be a high-performance complete wireless earphone belonging to the high-end class in the NUARL lineup, and in addition to Snapdragon Sound, compatible devices are expected to be released in 2021 "LE audio (LC3)" ) ”, And plans to support cooperation with various services such as music and telephone calls.
> 
> In addition, specifications such as adoption of the original dynamic driver, support for Adaptive Active Noise Canceling, and installation of a hear-through function have been clarified.


Snapdragon sound? Lol What does a Snapdragon sound like? Does it sound like a SoC chip?


----------



## jant71

https://www.qualcomm.com/products/features/snapdragon-sound


----------



## miserybeforethemusic (Mar 22, 2021)

SilverEars said:


> Snapdragon sound? Lol What does a Snapdragon sound like? Does it sound like a SoC chip?


Think of it like a unification/standardization platform. Similar to "Works with Windows 10" or "Made for iPhone," except there's some legitimate improvements to how things are handled on the backend (Aqstic could be interesting if they pull it off).


----------



## C_Lindbergh (Mar 22, 2021)

"Snapdragon sound" seems totally unnecessary given the features of Bluetooth LE/LC3 tho?

Similar features, but without Qualcomm license fee.

I guess Qualcomm are getting pretty desperate 😂

LC3/Bluetooth audio LE will standardize so many features that's either new or previous proprietary tech from mainly Apple/Qualcomm/Samsung.


----------



## Canabuc

turbobb said:


> @Canabuc - was $79.99 - $10 coupon - I see it now dropped to $74.99 (includes 2 yr warranty from Allstate due to being certified refurb'd - caveat emptor they share your info as a trade-off but I already have a bunch of Sq. Trade contracts)
> 
> @clerkpalmer - yes, the comfort is great and love the multi-point (albeit I get a few interrupts on PC every now and then), ANC, transparency mode, IPX7, etc. etc. IMO, it's fantastic bang for the buck with the included warranty.


Contemplating getting em but really have no use. They are perfect for winter outdoors as buttons work with hat and gloves. That might be only use case though as the freebuds pro outside of IP rating outperform it for me and I'm having a hard time justifying them the freebuds pro and Melomania touch all at same time.
1st world problems lol


----------



## regancipher

ZMI PurPods - blimey, cheap TWS are getting really bloody good. A sign that when the semi conductor market sorts itself out some big improvements are coming for sure.


----------



## howdy

Anyone with the samsung pros have alternative tips they are using? Just like my 85ts the right side large ear tip is to small.
Spinfits just slip off due to the short boss.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

howdy said:


> Anyone with the samsung pros have alternative tips they are using? Just like my 85ts the right side large ear tip is to small.
> Spinfits just slip off due to the short boss.


There's an eBay listing for 85t foam tips. They're a little tricky to install, but worth it if you're finding the Large a bit too small for your ears.

Worst case, maybe you can cannibalize whatever adapter they put on the stem


----------



## Canabuc

howdy said:


> Anyone with the samsung pros have alternative tips they are using? Just like my 85ts the right side large ear tip is to small.
> Spinfits just slip off due to the short boss.


https://www.amazon.com/diofit-Premi...alaxy+buds+pro+ear+tips&qid=1616461995&sr=8-3


----------



## howdy

Canabuc said:


> https://www.amazon.com/diofit-Premi...alaxy+buds+pro+ear+tips&qid=1616461995&sr=8-3


That's funny as I just literally bought those. They have XL and the one I found was 15.99.(same brand)


----------



## Canabuc

Maybe if those were out in Canada when I bought the pros I would have kept them.


----------



## clerkpalmer

turbobb said:


> @Canabuc - was $79.99 - $10 coupon - I see it now dropped to $74.99 (includes 2 yr warranty from Allstate due to being certified refurb'd - caveat emptor they share your info as a trade-off but I already have a bunch of Sq. Trade contracts)
> 
> @clerkpalmer - yes, the comfort is great and love the multi-point (albeit I get a few interrupts on PC every now and then), ANC, transparency mode, IPX7, etc. etc. IMO, it's fantastic bang for the buck with the included warranty.


How do you claim the warranty? Thanks.


----------



## turbobb

clerkpalmer said:


> How do you claim the warranty? Thanks.


Details here (on that page is a link to file a claim). I noticed not all listings for the EA75t carry the warranty (e.g. not this one), I used the link that @miserybeforethemusic posted: https://www.ebay.com/itm/Jabra-Elit...ss-Earbuds-Certified-Refurbished/164441338697 which is sold directly by Jabra.


----------



## Canabuc

turbobb said:


> Details here (on that page is a link to file a claim). I noticed not all listings for the EA75t carry the warranty (e.g. not this one), I used the link that @miserybeforethemusic posted: https://www.ebay.com/itm/Jabra-Elit...ss-Earbuds-Certified-Refurbished/164441338697 which is sold directly by Jabra.


I looked at the ad. Can't find where it says 2 year warranty.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

turbobb said:


> Details here (on that page is a link to file a claim). I noticed not all listings for the EA75t carry the warranty (e.g. not this one), I used the link that @miserybeforethemusic posted: https://www.ebay.com/itm/Jabra-Elit...ss-Earbuds-Certified-Refurbished/164441338697 which is sold directly by Jabra.


Bingo. Pretty sure they shipped me an email with claim instructions, should they be needed.

That Jabra/GN store is awesome, but really gets better when eBay does its sitewide coupons. Best time to buy would be when the coupon code is for 20% off or more.

Fingers crossed they "Active-ate" the 85t's tuning. I'm hoping they do.


Canabuc said:


> I looked at the ad. Can't find where it says 2 year warranty.


Truth be told, I glossed over it the first time and barely noticed it the second, but I do remember Allstate coverage being part of the deal. Think it's an eBay thing.


----------



## clerkpalmer

turbobb said:


> Details here (on that page is a link to file a claim). I noticed not all listings for the EA75t carry the warranty (e.g. not this one), I used the link that @miserybeforethemusic posted: https://www.ebay.com/itm/Jabra-Elit...ss-Earbuds-Certified-Refurbished/164441338697 which is sold directly by Jabra.


Thanks. Yeah that’s what I purchased. Looks like you just get the warranty. For 80 bucks I am definitely satisfied. For “beater” buds they will do nicely. I noticed on my bike the insane bass is tempered a bit into just a whole lotta bass.


----------



## Canabuc

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Bingo. Pretty sure they shipped me an email with claim instructions, should they be needed.
> 
> That Jabra/GN store is awesome, but really gets better when eBay does its sitewide coupons. Best time to buy would be when the coupon code is for 20% off or more.
> 
> ...


The only thing I saw was in the title but nowhere within the listing. Amazon sells same item at same price also sold direct by Jabra and warranty says 180 days. Not sure why it would be more through eBay.


----------



## Canabuc

Truthfully through eBay I won't pay any taxes or duties to Canada and likely free returns. Think my credit card would extend my warranty to double so would still get a year I imagine...


----------



## turbobb

Canabuc said:


> Truthfully through eBay I won't pay any taxes or duties to Canada and likely free returns. Think my credit card would extend my warranty to double so would still get a year I imagine...


That explains it - the warranty is US only:


----------



## Canabuc

turbobb said:


> That explains it - the warranty is US only:


Interesting I was on eBay. Com but it must have seen me as a Canadian address. Guess my best bet is Amazon then.

On a different note I really am amazed at the sound I am getting on the Huawei. I would put their sound right up there with my favorites but with so much more functionality. They need some EQ in the Treble bit mean they are clear with great sound stage and instrument separation. I am really healthy i stumbled onto these.

Not sure why none else is using them.
Anyone on Android I am happy to share my EQ settings from wavelet. Getting nice detail in treble with these settings now too. Better than MT and JBL. I also live the analog sound of the MT too, but if I had to return every earbud I own and use one as my daily driver for every circumstance these would win.


----------



## FYLegend

Aevum said:


> the chipset thing is annoying.
> 
> I got some cheap soundpeats for sleeping and podcasts, didnt think i need much.
> 
> so you have Qualcomm, Realtek and Mediatek now with chipsets, and unless you get something qualcomm powered or something from Sony, its going to be just SBC and AAC and the latency will suck. and were seing a lot of manufacturers saving a buck or two getting the realtek or Mediatek chipset so they can skip on the aptx license, so they are great for music, but as soon as you watch a video o try to follow a clip on youtube. screw it.


Latency is more a problem with Android's optimization. Android 9 Pie onwards improved it significantly compared to previous versions, but it still falls behind compared to Windows 10. My laptop has Intel BT5.0 Bluetooth stack and the latency is good enough for some basic gaming, whether I'm using AptX or SBC. Earfun Free Pro's low latency mode helps a bit as well but it was already good to start.


----------



## Asakurai

just received this Geekfly GF8S TWS yesterday, pretty awesome on SQ alone, wonder why still few people talking about this one. definitely comparable against my wired IEMs at this price point (i prefer this than Tanchjim Oxygen or See Audio Yume xD).


----------



## regancipher

65t down to £49.99 here in the UK


----------



## Aevum

cheap, shame about brexit, dont feel adding another 30-40 euros to it in fees.


----------



## jant71

Asakurai said:


> just received this Geekfly GF8S TWS yesterday, pretty awesome on SQ alone, wonder why still few people talking about this one. definitely comparable against my wired IEMs at this price point (i prefer this than Tanchjim Oxygen or See Audio Yume xD).



They did a horrible job of selling it. Never explained the difference and why this was double the price of the original. Of course no ambient or other features and a small relatively unproven brand with this the only model. Not much wonder really why few talk about them  They are cheaper and more versatile than the Grado is but Grado has a name so more are gonna try it.


----------



## clerkpalmer (Mar 23, 2021)

Looks like M&D has a new offering. Slightly bigger driver and likely real ANC. I struggle with the fit on these so that’s a bummer. Certainly look the part:

https://www.engadget.com/master-and-dynamic-mw08-true-wireless-earbuds-120013056.html

and some reviews are out:

https://appleinsider.com/articles/2...08-true-wireless-earbuds-impress-in-every-way


----------



## mh1c

Has anyone purchased the Earfuns tuned by Oluv?


----------



## Canabuc

At this point with all my recent returns to Amazon I got a letter suggesting I am returning too many products.
I think right now am set with MT, Huawei and bought the refurb 75t active with Qi case just because. Well actually they will be my Mudder pair. So anywhere they can get very wet. Ie pool, washing my car.....

Think my next investment in this will skip the generation coming out now like the new M&D,KEf, Sony, B&W etc as I think they will be iterative updates.
None will have better ANC multipairing and overall utility of the  freebuds.None will have more secure fit and that lovely warm British sound of the Melomania and none will have the IP ratings of the Jabra.

In 2022 I expect BLE to become mainstream and we will see the next big leap in terms of battery life connectivity with incremental improvements in sound more due to codecs.

It has been a fun ride but the Amazon reminder out things into perspective and have gone overboard.
Will post my final comparisons in a post soon among all the buds I have auditioned.
If there are specific questions about various earbuds I would be glad to answer as I have out them all through their paces and can really dial in the difference both sound and functionality etc between them.


----------



## dj24 (Mar 23, 2021)

Anyone with the 75t Active and the 85t....  I know the ANC is but is the call quality that much better on the 85t?  That's the only reason I'm considering them when they release the 85t actives since their battery life will probably be much less compared to the current 75t active.


----------



## C_Lindbergh (Mar 23, 2021)

Personally I hope we'll see BLE products coming out this year 

But yeah, usually the advice in tech is that there will always be better stuff, so just buy when you need it. But the upcoming next gen standardised bluetooth will be a huge upgrade, it will even outshine when we got APTX instead of SBC.

So if Sony/B&W/M&D  etc launches new TWS with current Bluetooth tech it would just feel like such a waste to buy them. At least the CA MT's are very cheap considering they've only been out for a couple of months.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

dj24 said:


> Anyone with the 75t Active and the 85t....  I know the ANC is but is the call quality that much better on the 85t?  That's the only reason I'm considering them when they release the 85t actives since their battery life will probably be much less compared to the current 75t active.


Not in my experience; they're largely the same.


----------



## Darkestred

Received the MT's today.   These are pretty nice and fit great.

My quick impressions vs the L2P as that was my main inquiry:

Pros
The MT has better bass extension and texture.
Slightly thicker presentation and more body
Slightly wider sound stage to my ears
Bass is more realistic
More realistic Timbre
Fit is excellent
Paired no issue even before upgrade.  Signal seems great.  Walked around house with my phone at the opposite end and room it was in door was closed.

Cons
Slightly less detailed

With that said, imo they do not dethrone the L2P but will definitely be a great addition to the family, especially due to the fit.  Thanks for the rec @MCPT @miserybeforethemusic @Canabuc


----------



## MCPT

Darkestred said:


> Received the MT's today.   These are pretty nice and fit great.
> 
> My quick impressions vs the L2P as that was my main inquiry:
> 
> ...


I’m glad you’re enjoying them.  I’d agree with your assessment of the differences in sound between the two.

I just received my replacement pair, so I hope all of the connection issues are resolved for me.


----------



## jant71

C_Lindbergh said:


> Personally I hope we'll see BLE products coming out this year
> 
> But yeah, usually the advice in tech is that there will always be better stuff, so just buy when you need it. But the upcoming next gen standardised bluetooth will be a huge upgrade, it will even outshine when we got APTX instead of SBC.
> 
> So if Sony/B&W/M&D  etc launches new TWS with current Bluetooth tech it would just feel like such a waste to buy them. At least the CA MT's are very cheap considering they've only been out for a couple of months.


I think this is why we haven't seen or heard much about the Sony. I think they will be new standard capable. Of course should be backward compatible I would assume. Same with Qualcomm 3050 series should still work with current tech but no Snapdragon capabilities if not a SD capable device connected to it. I don't see there being a cutoff where old won't work with new and new with old.

Sony was always ahead of Nuarl. So hard to think Nuarl are showing something they will be producing and Sony will come out with an old tech TWS.


----------



## Luke Skywalker (Mar 23, 2021)

Darkestred said:


> N6Ps do sound nice but their design sucks.  Those are relegated to movie watching.
> 
> I did notice the kefs.  Ive seen very bad call quality.  How has your experience been?


i had a few phone calls today for work and no one mentioned having any issues hearing me. Far as I know they’re good.

The music is absolutely incredible


----------



## Luke Skywalker

clerkpalmer said:


> Looks like M&D has a new offering. Slightly bigger driver and likely real ANC. I struggle with the fit on these so that’s a bummer. Certainly look the part:
> 
> https://www.engadget.com/master-and-dynamic-mw08-true-wireless-earbuds-120013056.html
> 
> ...


Ya I just saw that too. I tried to buy them but M&D’s site has the “enter your email address to be notified when these are available “ kind of thing


----------



## Canabuc (Mar 23, 2021)

Darkestred said:


> Received the MT's today.   These are pretty nice and fit great.
> 
> My quick impressions vs the L2P as that was my main inquiry:
> 
> ...



Guess I pissed off Amazon. My replacement white MT were supposed to arrive today and there has been no updates on tracking for last 3 days...


----------



## IamJon (Mar 23, 2021)

Anyone looked at the 1More ComfoBuds Pro yet?

I'm fairy happy with my LP2 and wired kz zsx. But still looking for a comfortable wireless IEM with ANC, for use on long haul flights and public transport.

Current short list is:
Jabra 75t / 85t
Anker Air 2 pro
Momentum True wireless 2 (expensive)
1More dual anc pro (neckband ldac)

Using with Android so aptx would be nice.


----------



## Canabuc

IamJon said:


> Anyone looked at the 1More ComfoBuds Pro yet?
> 
> I'm fairy happy with my LP2 and wired kz zsx. But still looking for a comfortable wireless IEM with ANC, for use on long haul flights and public transport.
> 
> ...


If AnC and call quality is important skip Sennheiser and consider freebuds pro.


----------



## TK33

clerkpalmer said:


> Looks like M&D has a new offering. Slightly bigger driver and likely real ANC. I struggle with the fit on these so that’s a bummer. Certainly look the part:
> 
> https://www.engadget.com/master-and-dynamic-mw08-true-wireless-earbuds-120013056.html
> 
> ...


Looks like the app may allow you to disable in ear detection too, which is why I went with the MW07 Go instead of the Plus (hate when I pull one earbud out only to have my music stop).  A welcome change.  Three mics seems promising too. Definitely interested in seeing what this new driver can do although there is a lot more competition now than there was back in 2019 when the MW07 Plus/Go came out.


----------



## Canabuc

TK33 said:


> Looks like the app may allow you to disable in ear detection too, which is why I went with the MW07 Go instead of the Plus (hate when I pull one earbud out only to have my music stop).  A welcome change.  Three mics seems promising too. Definitely interested in seeing what this new driver can do although there is a lot more competition now than there was back in 2019 when the MW07 Plus/Go came out.


My only reluctance with these are they are a great behind the competition. 
Jabra, Huawei, Samsung, JBL,I think Sennheiser all use 3 mic systems.
They still don't offer wireless charging. Seems the ANC might finally catch up to the competition but that is still to be determined. They just don't seem to offer anything new.


----------



## Darkestred

Canabuc said:


> Guess I pissed off Amazon. My replacement white MT were supposed to arrive today and there has been no updates on tracking for last 3 days...



Uh oh.  My tracking said 25-28thish but i literally got them a day after i ordered on the 22nd.  Maybe tomorrow!


----------



## Aevum

whats the general opinion about the Huawei freebuds pro ?  supposably they aren't on the same level as Sony or Galaxy Buds pro on sound quality, but the Kirin Soc seems to be very effective, ANC is great, very low latency, good multipoint connection (what's killing me with the N400), at least that's what i got from the reviews out there.


----------



## Caipirina

PSA for people with Bose QC earbuds or those considering buying them ... apparently there is a pretty nasty bug for some units / users, in which the buds do not disconnect when put in case, or randomly reconnect, thus draining power and people report missed alarms / phone calls on Bose's community, 
For what those buds cost, this is really unacceptable and the 'help' given in the thread is rather 'meh' (reboot, read all of our possible trouble shooting guidelines, find service center)

Unfortunately in my location there is no real 'service center' and I could possibly only return in case of real 'stopped working' ... not sure how / if the warranty rules in this country work ... 

Quite disappointing Bose!


----------



## Canabuc

Aevum said:


> whats the general opinion about the Huawei freebuds pro ?  supposably they aren't on the same level as Sony or Galaxy Buds pro on sound quality, but the Kirin Soc seems to be very effective, ANC is great, very low latency, good multipoint connection (what's killing me with the N400), at least that's what i got from the reviews out there.



How will you be using them? I have owned both and didn't get asking with the Samsung's.
They lack all the controls on the buds. The touch sensor way too sensitive with false presses all the time.
Sound worse they were very good but the Treble was a bit much and the mids lacking.

Freebuds pro have great controls. Great ANC and multi pairing.
Sound wise they are best opposite to Samsung. They are weather sounding with better mid range. If you are on Android you can use wavelet and bring up the Treble on them and it really opens up the sound in terms of detail and sound stage.


----------



## TK33

Canabuc said:


> My only reluctance with these are they are a great behind the competition.
> Jabra, Huawei, Samsung, JBL,I think Sennheiser all use 3 mic systems.
> They still don't offer wireless charging. Seems the ANC might finally catch up to the competition but that is still to be determined. They just don't seem to offer anything new.


I do not disagree.  In my opinion, many of the "updated" features are what should have been included in the MW07 Plus and it is a bit too late.  It does seem like these may be smaller in physical dimensions and maybe the new larger driver can work some magic so I left that out of my initial comment and will reserve judgement.  Hopefully we can see some real impressions here soon but I am probably taking a pass on this one unless I hear that there is a massive SQ upgrade since my MW07 Go still work great.


----------



## pkcpga

Has anyone tried the HiFi TWS800 or Grado GT220?  I wonder how they compare to the Sony or Sennheiser or Noble.  Thanks


----------



## Canabuc

TK33 said:


> I do not disagree.  In my opinion, many of the "updated" features are what should have been included in the MW07 Plus and it is a bit too late.  It does seem like these may be smaller in physical dimensions and maybe the new larger driver can work some magic so I left that out of my initial comment and will reserve judgement.  Hopefully we can see some real impressions here soon but I am probably taking a pass on this one unless I hear that there is a massive SQ upgrade since my MW07 Go still work great.


Seems alot companies are playing catch-up. Assuming Sennheiser first with making TWS they will improve ANC and maybe add wireless charging next.

Sony was groundbreaking in 2019! ANC that was top level with good sound. They just were too bulky both case and buds. They could have updated them in 2020 but the completion was barely catching up. 

This year assuming the xm4 leak is real we will see a smaller bud with I have to imagine wireless charging. How much better performing they will be will likely be more at the call end as they were lacking there.

For now my freebuds pro do everything I could want. Single bud use. Multipoint connection. Top level ANC. Very good battery life in buds and case. A very good sound that when tweaked is as good to my ears as the Sony was with better tighter bass. Wireless charging and very secure fit.
Only lacking thing is the official IP rating though I have read some various reports they are likely ipx4 equivalent.

Don't see anyone surpassing that feature set anytime soon. That's why I think 2022 or late 2021 will be the next leap.


----------



## clerkpalmer

TK33 said:


> I do not disagree.  In my opinion, many of the "updated" features are what should have been included in the MW07 Plus and it is a bit too late.  It does seem like these may be smaller in physical dimensions and maybe the new larger driver can work some magic so I left that out of my initial comment and will reserve judgement.  Hopefully we can see some real impressions here soon but I am probably taking a pass on this one unless I hear that there is a massive SQ upgrade since my MW07 Go still work great.


I was trying to figure out if they are smaller or not. Couldn’t find anything definitive but I agree that would be a worthwhile change.


----------



## Canabuc

White MT just arrived! Wow they look nice.
And case is much better it feels more secure.
Have to say the white case looks bigger than the black lol.


----------



## Canabuc

pkcpga said:


> Has anyone tried the HiFi TWS800 or Grado GT220?  I wonder how they compare to the Sony or Sennheiser or Noble.  Thanks


Haven't sorry. They both lack features I feel are important for me in a TWS.


----------



## tinyman392 (Mar 24, 2021)

pkcpga said:


> Has anyone tried the HiFi TWS800 or Grado GT220?  I wonder how they compare to the Sony or Sennheiser or Noble.  Thanks


There are quite a few people in the thread that have tried the GT220 and also have the Sony, Sennheiser, and/or Noble.  The TWS800 is less popular here due to the shortcomings of the TWS600 and the price point it comes in at (300 USD when its predecessor was less than stellar/borderline hard to listen to).  I do own the TWS800, but not the GT220.  However, I don't own the new Sony, Sennheiser, or Noble so comparisons won't be possible :/ The only thing I can really say about the TWS800 is that it's an analytical signature with a modest bass bump.  Think Etymotic with a tad more upper treble and a small bass bump (probably more akin to their XR series of IEMs).

Edit: keep in mind that for the price of the TWS800 and GT220 you could in theory buy the Tin HiFi P1 and the Fiio UTWS3 or TRN BT20s Pro and get SQ that is going to be very difficult to beat.  I was able to find the P1 for 130 bucks (retails for 170) and the TWS adapters for 80 bucks, so the setup costs about 210-250 dollars total.  If you already own an MMCX or 2-pin IEM that you enjoy, this might be a pretty cheap direction to go.  Especially if you don't care about ANC, transparency, and the other features that are currently being pushed in more mainstream TWS setups (which may be the case if you're asking about the TWS800, GT220, and Noble).


----------



## clerkpalmer

tinyman392 said:


> There are quite a few people in the thread that have tried the GT220 and also have the Sony, Sennheiser, and/or Noble.  The TWS800 is less popular here due to the shortcomings of the TWS600 and the price point it comes in at (300 USD when its predecessor was less than stellar/borderline hard to listen to).  I do own the TWS800, but not the GT220.  However, I don't own the new Sony, Sennheiser, or Noble so comparisons won't be possible :/ The only thing I can really say about the TWS800 is that it's an analytical signature with a modest bass bump.  Think Etymotic with a tad more upper treble and a small bass bump (probably more akin to their XR series of IEMs).
> 
> Edit: keep in mind that for the price of the TWS800 and GT220 you could in theory buy the Tin HiFi P1 and the Fiio UTWS3 or TRN BT20s Pro and get SQ that is going to be very difficult to beat.  I was able to find the P1 for 130 bucks (retails for 170) and the TWS adapters for 80 bucks, so the setup costs about 210-250 dollars total.  If you already own an MMCX or 2-pin IEM that you enjoy, this might be a pretty cheap direction to go.  Especially if you don't care about ANC, transparency, and the other features that are currently being pushed in more mainstream TWS setups (which may be the case if you're asking about the TWS800, GT220, and Noble).


Does the p1 fit with the TRN? I’ve had issues getting iems to fit with the hooks.


----------



## tinyman392 (Mar 24, 2021)

clerkpalmer said:


> Does the p1 fit with the TRN? I’ve had issues getting iems to fit with the hooks.


The P1 are tiny, so they'll fit in the TRN case.  But you are correct, the TRN case is a bit finicky as it doesn't give a bunch of head room for IEMs to fit (which is kind of a shame).  The little elastic pouch will push up against the P1 when you close it, but the top of the case itself won't.

Edit: I should note that I'm using the smallest tips provided by Tin HiFi.  If you're using a foam or something, then the elastic band may mess with those.  Most silicone tips are kind of resilient to that though.


----------



## clerkpalmer

tinyman392 said:


> The P1 are tiny, so they'll fit in the TRN case.  But you are correct, the TRN case is a bit finicky as it doesn't give a bunch of head room for IEMs to fit (which is kind of a shame).  The little elastic pouch will push up against the P1 when you close it, but the top of the case itself won't.


Apologies. Poor wording. In terms of fit I meant does the trn bend properly for the iem to stay in your ears? I tried trn with some iems and they just wouldn’t bend correctly.


----------



## tinyman392

clerkpalmer said:


> Apologies. Poor wording. In terms of fit I meant does the trn bend properly for the iem to stay in your ears? I tried trn with some iems and they just wouldn’t bend correctly.


Ah, from that perspective.  There is a stiffness still there.  They are easier to fit more comfortably than the Fiio since the overall body of the adapter is smaller.  I have relatively small ears though, so the way it bends works very well with me, I could see some difficulty coming if you get a larger ear in there though.  So with that said, the P1 with the TRN do fit me without much issue.  The P1 kind of have a finicky fit in general though.


----------



## turbobb (Mar 24, 2021)

Caipirina said:


> PSA for people with Bose QC earbuds or those considering buying them ... apparently there is a pretty nasty bug for some units / users, in which the buds do not disconnect when put in case, or randomly reconnect, thus draining power and people report missed alarms / phone calls on Bose's community,
> For what those buds cost, this is really unacceptable and the 'help' given in the thread is rather 'meh' (reboot, read all of our possible trouble shooting guidelines, find service center)
> 
> Unfortunately in my location there is no real 'service center' and I could possibly only return in case of real 'stopped working' ... not sure how / if the warranty rules in this country work ...
> ...


I've been a Bose fan for many years and have owned various products that are really good quality and have lasted. However, the rubber on the original SSF is an exception to that and is a common issue but Bose has not owned up to it. The left side of mine have broken off and the way they designed it is with a plastic piece under it so now I can't activate the button on my left bud. Fantastic sound and I really enjoyed them and had been considering their Sport or QC but am now hesitant as I'm concerned they're using the same rubber formula.

Aside from the bug you mentioned, their Bluetooth implementation is quirky on a few of their devices; even though they're supposed to be "off", I always see the SSF and the Revolve+ as being available for pairing (not so with their 700 at least).

This isn't meant to be a rant, I'm still enjoying a bunch of their products - just sharing experiences FWIW.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic (Mar 24, 2021)

turbobb said:


> I've been a Bose fan for many years and have owned various products that are really good quality and have lasted. However, the rubber on the original SSF is an exception to that and is a common issue but Bose has not owned up to it. The left side of mine have broken off and the way they designed it is with a plastic piece under it so now I can't activate the button on my left bud. Fantastic sound and I really enjoyed them and had been considering their Sport or QC but am now hesitant as I'm concerned they're using the same rubber formula.
> 
> Aside from the bug you mentioned, their Bluetooth implementation is quirky on a few of their devices; even though they're supposed to be "off", I always see the SSF and the Revolve+ as being available for pairing (not so with their 700 at least).
> 
> Please note that this is not meant to be a rant, I'm still enjoying a bunch of their products - just sharing experiences FWIW.


Honestly haven't bought a Bose product in over a decade. That being said, the QC 35 (original, not the II) have been absolute tanks here at the house. Wife bought me a pair new when they first came out and I finally had to swap the pads out this past week. Guess they build them tough when they want to, eh?

Finally got all the foam tips in (Comply S/M and Dekoni EZ-TWS-M). Complys were total duds for the NFPs as they wouldn't extend over the nozzle, no matter how much I tried. They work really well for everything else with the exception of the Technics AZ70W and 85t, but both of those have comically-large nozzles. I'll most likely keep them on the side in case I'm having an itchy-ear day; foam tips tend to make those a little more bearable than the silicones.

The Dekoni tips, even if they had to stretch a little to get over the NFP's nozzles, seem way more suited to the task. Fit is great, no clearance issues with the case, and the foam in the tips has just enough rebound for me to bottom these IEMs out when compressed for a nice, secure fit. Granted, I may opt for the same tips in Small to see if I don't have to compress them with my fingers at all, but this is a nice middle-ground.


Spoiler: Dekoni on Noble









And I'm happy to say I haven't heard any remnants of that dang driver flex/buzz I was dealing with previously. Knowing these are finally ready to go back into the rotation; that I won't be dealing with pop-pop-bzzz-bzzz every few insertions. Sound signature isn't too messed with, though there's more treble rolloff than with the stock tips (and I'm not complaining). Bass energy is still largely there, if not a little more diffused than with the stock silicone tips.

"Celebrating" with _Wish You Were Here_ in DSD. Think I've earned it.

_Edit: And this is probably a big one; I think my driver issues are actually codec-based in nature. Started getting the snap, crackle, and pop even with the Dekoni tips. Went into Developer Options and selected aptX instead of aptX Adaptive. BOOM - noise is gone. Just music again. Even if I close every other app except the music player and re-enable aptX Adaptive, the noise comes right back. Switch from Adaptive to regular aptX? Noise is gone. I think that's enough to confirm it being a codec issue, not a driver one.

I just spent a whole bunch on aftermarket foam tips only to be bit by the early adopter tax._


----------



## Luke Skywalker

I may pick up the Grado’s... their simplicity is what I love. 1) Stick in ears 2) play music. 

I do love the KEFs however one can never have too many earphones.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

Luke Skywalker said:


> I may pick up the Grado’s... their simplicity is what I love. 1) Stick in ears 2) play music.
> 
> I do love the KEFs however one can never have too many earphones.


Depends on which "one" we're talking about here. On second thought, knowing how often my wife loses her APPs, I might have to agree with you (only for different reasons).

Could save yourself some coin and go with the JBL or MW07 GO (unless you care about how you sound on phone calls, in which case pass on the M&D) and save some spare change, though. I also wouldn't shy away from the UE FITS for the reasons you mentioned, but I'm sure the Grado sound spectacular as well.


----------



## Canabuc

Well My New MT case while not creaking and feeling solid seems to have the right earbud for issue. As soon as I go to larger than standard tip it doesn't seat easily without me making sure to fit it properly.
This was not the case with the black pair I returned.

How did others save this who had this issue?


----------



## Typo2

Incase anyone missed it there's new firmware with EQ options for the Enco X. If you hated the Enco X's default v shape with recessed mids like I did, the new EQ options improve it massively, both tunings are way more neutral. Now using these over my kef mu3's and track air + due to the form factor and just overall features/convenience/size. Hopefully can also try LHDC on my next phone and see if they improve anymore. Reasonably happy with these now. Got half an eye on the b&w pi7 - doubt ill get £250-300 worth of improvement for the premium but I like being surprised and I gotta try them all. 😅

Latest Hey Melody app isnt on google play yet, which is where the Eq options are.


----------



## PixelSquish (Mar 24, 2021)

clerkpalmer said:


> Looks like M&D has a new offering. Slightly bigger driver and likely real ANC. I struggle with the fit on these so that’s a bummer. Certainly look the part:
> 
> https://www.engadget.com/master-and-dynamic-mw08-true-wireless-earbuds-120013056.html
> 
> ...



These look interesting. If they sound as good as the MTW2 and MT but with very good ANC and the battery life is actually significantly better than those two, I might bite. That's all I want. If I can get 6+ hours at high volume with good ANC on with that kind of SQ, that's all I need. No need to chase the dragon. Of course it needs a good app as well, although reviews have said the app for these has no EQ.


----------



## Canabuc

Typo2 said:


> Incase anyone missed it there's new firmware with EQ options for the Enco X. If you hated the Enco X's default v shape with recessed mids like I did, the new EQ options improve it massively, both tunings are way more neutral. Now using these over my kef mu3's and track air + due to the form factor and just overall features/convenience/size. Hopefully can also try LHDC on my next phone and see if they improve anymore. Reasonably happy with these now. Got half an eye on the b&w pi7 - doubt ill get £250-300 worth of improvement for the premium but I like being surprised and I gotta try them all. 😅
> 
> Latest Hey Melody app isnt on google play yet, which is where the Eq options are.


Was interested in these but short of eBay no way to get in canada


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

A moment of silence...


NFPs are out of commission. They really didn't like tip-rolling...


----------



## tinyman392

miserybeforethemusic said:


> A moment of silence...
> 
> NFPs are out of commission. They really didn't like tip-rolling...


Is that an electrical connection on the nozzle?  You could in theory glue it back in if it isn't.  But if you have warranty...


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

tinyman392 said:


> Is that an electrical connection on the nozzle?  You could in theory glue it back in if it isn't.  But if you have warranty...


You're looking at the back end of two of the balanced armatures. Don't think I'm going to be able to press-fit this one back together.


----------



## Sebulr

I've been using my bomaker sifi 2 as a daily driver for a couple of weeks. Lovely earphone, steal for 20 quid. Minor niggles with the case being too small for decent size tips and a tiny battery in it, having to charge the thing up every few days is slightly annoying. If my mifos sounded like these, they'd be perfect.

 I still prefer buttons to touch sensors. Bring back the sifi 1, bomaker! And give us some 14.5mm tips not the ones made for babies, that I tossed in the bin.


----------



## Sebulr

miserybeforethemusic said:


> You're looking at the back end of two of the balanced armatures. Don't think I'm going to be able to press-fit this one back together.


Urgghh. My condolences.


----------



## bladefd

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Honestly haven't bought a Bose product in over a decade. That being said, the QC 35 (original, not the II) have been absolute tanks here at the house. Wife bought me a pair new when they first came out and I finally had to swap the pads out this past week. Guess they build them tough when they want to, eh?
> 
> Finally got all the foam tips in (Comply S/M and Dekoni EZ-TWS-M). Complys were total duds for the NFPs as they wouldn't extend over the nozzle, no matter how much I tried. They work really well for everything else with the exception of the Technics AZ70W and 85t, but both of those have comically-large nozzles. I'll most likely keep them on the side in case I'm having an itchy-ear day; foam tips tend to make those a little more bearable than the silicones.
> 
> ...


How would you compare the foam dekoni memory foam tips with your final type e silicone? In terms of comfort and sound quality, soundstage, highs/mids/lows.


----------



## bladefd

Canabuc said:


> Well My New MT case while not creaking and feeling solid seems to have the right earbud for issue. As soon as I go to larger than standard tip it doesn't seat easily without me making sure to fit it properly.
> This was not the case with the black pair I returned.
> 
> How did others save this who had this issue?


You have to jiggle it a bit until the red light comes on. I'm used to it now. Occasionally a bit annoying, but there isn't much choice. I feel it's a quality assurance issue


----------



## bladefd

miserybeforethemusic said:


> A moment of silence...
> 
> NFPs are out of commission. They really didn't like tip-rolling...


Ouch! Looks like Dekoni tips were too small for the NFP?


----------



## CocaCola15

Canabuc said:


> Well My New MT case while not creaking and feeling solid seems to have the right earbud for issue. As soon as I go to larger than standard tip it doesn't seat easily without me making sure to fit it properly.
> This was not the case with the black pair I returned.
> 
> How did others save this who had this issue?


I also returned a black pair, then bought white at the $129 sale price. Chose the L tip, no issue with the case yet. But for whatever reason, I can’t understand why I returned them in the first place. They sound excellent. No issues with the controls. FW update went well. Now I own the M1+ and the Touch. Keeping both.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

Sebulr said:


> Urgghh. My condolences.


Appreciate it. Not going to get worked up over it until I've exhausted all other options. Luckily, I had a backup pair...or few. Going with the Technics for now and not really complaining about it; even running on stock EQ and no ANC/HearThrough to warm things up.


bladefd said:


> How would you compare the foam dekoni memory foam tips with your final type e silicone? In terms of comfort and sound quality, soundstage, highs/mids/lows.


Their form factor is about the same. Took a photo to illustrate some differences:

Dekoni is on the left, Final up front, SpinFit on the right, and one of the Comply in the back.

The Final still win out for shortest profile in terms of height, but looks like the Dekoni might be a little more narrow and have the benefit of foam to compress.

The SpinFit and Comply both seem to have about the same height, but the SpinFit are significantly wider at their widest point. Should help you decide what works better for you in terms of comfort. I won't be able to test the Dekoni tips on the MTs until Cambridge is done with their RMA, but know that both the SpinFit and Final worked just fine on the MT when it came to getting things in the case. Full disclosure: I'm usually a size Medium.


bladefd said:


> Ouch! Looks like Dekoni tips were too small for the NFP?


Nope, but the Comply definitely were and I was babying these when this happened. I just wanted to swap out the foamies for the stock tips to confirm my belief that it's the aptX Adaptive codec that was responsible for my noise issues. Can't test anything now.


----------



## tinyman392

miserybeforethemusic said:


> You're looking at the back end of two of the balanced armatures. Don't think I'm going to be able to press-fit this one back together.


Oh crap, I didn't even notice that  Yeah...  That won't just drop in nicely unfortunately :/  Hopefully Noble can get you a replacement; light speed!


----------



## Canabuc

bladefd said:


> You have to jiggle it a bit until the red light comes on. I'm used to it now. Occasionally a bit annoying, but there isn't much choice. I feel it's a quality assurance issue


It seems as if the magnet is not aligned right on that side. The first pair I had were much better in that regard.
Dropping them from an inch up and the magnets would ensure the contacts were made.
These that doesn't happen. I have to press fit


----------



## Canabuc

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Appreciate it. Not going to get worked up over it until I've exhausted all other options. Luckily, I had a backup pair...or few. Going with the Technics for now and not really complaining about it; even running on stock EQ and no ANC/HearThrough to warm things up.
> 
> Their form factor is about the same. Took a photo to illustrate some differences:
> 
> ...


 Any interest in selling any large final E tips?


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

Canabuc said:


> Any interest in selling any large final E tips?


If I had any left, I would, but they now live on the Earfun Free Pro and MW07 GO.


----------



## samandhi

Canabuc said:


> It seems as if the magnet is not aligned right on that side. The first pair I had were much better in that regard.
> Dropping them from an inch up and the magnets would ensure the contacts were made.
> These that doesn't happen. I have to press fit


Now that you have mentioned it, I slipped on the large tips for mine, and sure enough, the left one doesn't drop right in (like they do when using the M or S or even the spinfits). Interesting find. Seems like their tolerance levels in the factory are pretty laxed for these. Oh well, I'm keeping them anyhow, they work well for me, connect every time, do what they are supposed to do, etc...


----------



## Sebulr

I can't get my preferred extral large tips in any case but my cheapo tws sets. I can get by with large tenmakk whirlwinds in my bomaker case but the fit is problematic. Those dekonis might be worth a shot.

Pretty much the most annoying thing about tws sets to me. Really gets my goat.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

Sebulr said:


> I can't get my preferred extral large tips in any case but my cheapo tws sets. I can get by with large tenmakk whirlwinds in my bomaker case but the fit is problematic. Those dekonis might be worth a shot.
> 
> Pretty much the most annoying thing about tws sets to me. Really gets my goat.


If the Dekoni don't work out, give the Final a shot. They're pricey, but the smallest form factor and most flexible shroud I've seen so far. I recommend both, but one might be better for certain applications than another.


----------



## pkcpga

Typo2 said:


> Incase anyone missed it there's new firmware with EQ options for the Enco X. If you hated the Enco X's default v shape with recessed mids like I did, the new EQ options improve it massively, both tunings are way more neutral. Now using these over my kef mu3's and track air + due to the form factor and just overall features/convenience/size. Hopefully can also try LHDC on my next phone and see if they improve anymore. Reasonably happy with these now. Got half an eye on the b&w pi7 - doubt ill get £250-300 worth of improvement for the premium but I like being surprised and I gotta try them all. 😅
> 
> Latest Hey Melody app isnt on google play yet, which is where the Eq options are.


Wouldn’t hold my breathe on the B&W P17, two US dealers I spoke with stated only the P15 is on the upcoming order sheet.  No mention of a P17 anymore even though it was listed a few months ago.


----------



## bladefd

CocaCola15 said:


> I also returned a black pair, then bought white at the $129 sale price. Chose the L tip, no issue with the case yet. But for whatever reason, I can’t understand why I returned them in the first place. They sound excellent. No issues with the controls. FW update went well. Now I own the M1+ and the Touch. Keeping both.


I recall you returning due to connection issues


----------



## CocaCola15 (Mar 24, 2021)

bladefd said:


> I recall you returning due to connection issues


Right. Seems long ago. Glad I returned them, saved $20. So far, so good with the new pair.


----------



## Canabuc

CocaCola15 said:


> Right. Seems long ago. Glad I returned them, saved $20. So far, so good with the new pair.


Mine work fine just worried will have case issues. In retrospect would rather have creaky loose lid bit bud that had better fit inside.
Oh well at least I got the white and the price had gone down about 30$ Canadian


----------



## Caipirina

turbobb said:


> I've been a Bose fan for many years and have owned various products that are really good quality and have lasted. However, the rubber on the original SSF is an exception to that and is a common issue but Bose has not owned up to it. The left side of mine have broken off and the way they designed it is with a plastic piece under it so now I can't activate the button on my left bud. Fantastic sound and I really enjoyed them and had been considering their Sport or QC but am now hesitant as I'm concerned they're using the same rubber formula.
> 
> Aside from the bug you mentioned, their Bluetooth implementation is quirky on a few of their devices; even though they're supposed to be "off", I always see the SSF and the Revolve+ as being available for pairing (not so with their 700 at least).
> 
> This isn't meant to be a rant, I'm still enjoying a bunch of their products - just sharing experiences FWIW.


It's interesting, I never had trouble with the rubber on the SSF .. my first pair 'died' of some battery / charging failure and I was not able to claim warranty, that was well within the first year. But I liked them so much, I bought them again, and this set as well has charging quirks, basically I need to watch them charge with open case ... other wise they stop blinking (and thus charging) after 3 blinks ... my guess is that somehow there is the wrong 'I am done charging' feedback given. 
Still, I enjoy them so much that I keep doing that and keep running with them
Can't say my Jabra Elite Sport lasted that long, they, too, had charging issues / playing music while in case and such. Got them replaced once, but then eventually they just died ...


----------



## LordToneeus

Received my Fiil T1 Pro's yesterday from AliExpress (which was hella fast considering I ordered them March 8).  I really dig the sound, ever so much more than the Earfun Free Pro.  I knew going in that to unlock all the goodies of this set I'd need the Chinese app.  What I didn't know was 1) that I couldn't do ANYTHING save play/pause without the app; and 2) that the app is sort of a pain in the ass to get on iOS.  

I could wait and hope Fiil update the global app, but I think these are going on the auction block.  I like them quite a bit: they sound great, fit great, wireless charging, etc., but I'd rather recoup some of the $70, as I'm more likely to keep using the Jabra 75t's as my daily driver.


----------



## turbobb (Mar 25, 2021)

For those who hopped on the refurb'd EA75t, wanted to share something that might not be readily obvious given that no manual was provided (and not that one is really needed for the most part given the excellent app albeit this wasn't covered in the app though - EDIT: Actually it's covered in the Quick Start Guide but can't be changed in MyControls).

If you press and hold the respective buttons: L will decrease volume, R will increase it. Excellent! Can't say enough about how much I'm enjoying these - aside from the SQ, the controls were just so well thought out both in functionality and customization flexibility. I also much prefer buttons over touch controls and the pressure is just right so that it doesn't require a lot of force (thus potentially breaking the seal of the tips) but yet provides enough haptic feedback giving assurance on your executions. Kudos to whoever designed these!


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

turbobb said:


> For those who hopped on the refurb'd EA75t, wanted to share something that might not be readily obvious given that no manual was provided (and not that one is really needed for the most part given the excellent app albeit this wasn't covered in the app though).
> 
> If you press and hold the respective buttons: L will decrease volume, R will increase it. Excellent! Can't say enough about how much I'm enjoying these - aside from the SQ, the controls were just so well thought out both in functionality and customization flexibility. I also much prefer buttons over touch controls and the pressure is just right so that it doesn't require a lot of force (thus potentially breaking the seal of the tips) but yet provides enough haptic feedback giving assurance on your executions. Kudos to whoever designed these!


Definitely two thumbs up on 'em. My personal favorite part about the EA75t is the non-slip coating they've used for the shell. These don't budge once they're in, which is exceptionally awesome because they don't have fins/wings, either.

Suppose it's one of the better-kept secrets in Jabra-land.


----------



## Canabuc (Mar 25, 2021)

LordToneeus said:


> Received my Fiil T1 Pro's yesterday from AliExpress (which was hella fast considering I ordered them March 8).  I really dig the sound, ever so much more than the Earfun Free Pro.  I knew going in that to unlock all the goodies of this set I'd need the Chinese app.  What I didn't know was 1) that I couldn't do ANYTHING save play/pause without the app; and 2) that the app is sort of a pain in the ass to get on iOS.
> 
> I could wait and hope Fiil update the global app, but I think these are going on the auction block.  I like them quite a bit: they sound great, fit great, wireless charging, etc., but I'd rather recoup some of the $70, as I'm more likely to keep using the Jabra 75t's as my daily driver.


https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...FjAAegQIBRAC&usg=AOvVaw1rMOCEWoUjx6HljqG5xTzs

Someone modified the Fiil app to be in English. The firmware is still Chinese as are the voice prompts but now the app is available in English.

So even if you don't have an I ok s phone anyone with Android can install use your buds to activated the advanced features and choose EQ you like. Then you can uninstall the app.


----------



## Dany1

A friend of mine has recently bought the Fiil CC2, but he's having a serious fit issue with it. He has big ears and these keep falling out of his ears. He has tried fitting them through all possible angles but no luck. If anyone here could tell any possible solution for this it'd be of great help and i'll pass it on to him.


----------



## mymail0808

pkcpga said:


> Unfortunately it all depends on what Bluetooth chip was used and how it’s implemented (codec), nothing to do with the devices internal dac.  Just the two Bluetooth chips and their ability to share and translate that information.  The better the two devices communicate (codec same language and better rates), the better the quality of the music can be.  With chips that use AAC primarily, Apple devices tend to be better since Apple doesn’t restrict the power supply with Bluetooth the way many Android devices do to lengthen battery life.  Strange because Apple bottlenecks it’s lightning port with low power use through it for dongle dacs but not it’s Bluetooth, while Android seems to do the exact opposite.  Part of the reason my Bluetooth headsets require lower volume levels through my iPhone then through my Fiio m15.  Although the Fiio m15 plays Apt X HD to my Falcon Pro’s which I like better then AAC with the Falcon Pro’s.


Note, many thanks


----------



## jant71

Dany1 said:


> A friend of mine has recently bought the Fiil CC2, but he's having a serious fit issue with it. He has big ears and these keep falling out of his ears. He has tried fitting them through all possible angles but no luck. If anyone here could tell any possible solution for this it'd be of great help and i'll pass it on to him.


Ear bud foams. Something decent like Hiegi.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

Wanted to provide a quick update with regard to the Jabra wars. The 85t still sits collecting dust for the most part; I'm really tempted to get another Link 380, this time with a USB-A termination, to use with the other work laptop. That way, I can have the 85t linked between one work computer and my phone and the EA75t to my phone and the other laptop.

Or I'll just start looking for a buyer for the 85t and keep the EA75t. Long and short of it is...having both seems very redundant right now.


----------



## bubsdaddy

Sebulr said:


> I've been using my bomaker sifi 2 as a daily driver for a couple of weeks. Lovely earphone, steal for 20 quid. Minor niggles with the case being too small for decent size tips and a tiny battery in it, having to charge the thing up every few days is slightly annoying. If my mifos sounded like these, they'd be perfect.
> 
> I still prefer buttons to touch sensors. Bring back the sifi 1, bomaker! And give us some 14.5mm tips not the ones made for babies, that I tossed in the bin.


Seriously....I can't make a single aftermarket tip fit these. It's very aggravating when manufacturers make the case so shallow that a tip even slightly taller won't fit. I'm looking at you too, Soundpeats!


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

bubsdaddy said:


> Seriously....I can't make a single aftermarket tip fit these. It's very aggravating when manufacturers make the case so shallow that a tip even slightly taller won't fit. I'm looking at you too, Soundpeats!


Manufacturers have a bit of a dilemma when it comes to making TWS, though...

Option 1 - Put every user-requested feature into the earbuds so everybody can potentially be happy. This has a very high implementation cost. Time to implement is completely dependent on the engineer's ability to say _no_, how many bin requests there are, how long they take to implement, and (hopefully) the testing time to ensure everything works prior to release. I'd say 1-2% of the industry probably lives here and most of them are very small operations.
Option 2 - Build based on your largest demographic and ignore the rest. This is what most Chi-Fi companies tend to do as they'll just crank out a refreshed model in a few months. Most of these guys don't have the running capital for anything else and quantity over quality is the name of the game. Parts costs is kept as low as reasonably achievable, so it's more cost-effective to throw away RMA returns rather than perform repairs. This is where I'd say about 90% of the market lives these days.
Option 3 - Everything must have a purpose, everything must work. Not all user suggestions get implemented, but you make an earnest effort to incorporate the "good ideas." Everything must work before release. These guys are very few and far between, have limited runs, and usually only have word of mouth to build awareness. Advertising capital is usually small to nonexistent. Average development cycle: 5-10 years
Tl;dr - we're a picky subset of a subset of the buying population. The majority of purchasers don't even know that aftermarket tips exist, let alone their benefits. They do care about their cases being built as small as possible, which means tolerances get stupid tight inside the case, et voila...we have all these issues in mass-produced cases. To date, only Noble seems to have a case that was more than reasonably accommodating for aftermarket tips.


----------



## jant71 (Mar 26, 2021)

I think AT did a good job on the CKR70TW. On the features set and quality. You got the DLC coated driver with  stainless steel conduit and  Rubycon capacitors for the sound. Both quick hear through tapping on the right and ambient tapping on the left. ANC is nothing special though it works just not as much as better ANC models that cancels out more. The beamform mics are good so the other functions besides ANC are quite good. You got the auto pause, a decent app with EQ, L/R balance, 64 volume step adjustment, locator function, and a good case that is small yet I am using 10mm long tips on them. Battery is 20 hours so decent with ANC and they split touch plus buttons for the controls. Also announce battery level upon insertion so you don't have to look on a phone though it will be there as well.

They just left out Qi charging but good quality and feature set for $199. and $172 at the time I purchased. Still I think fair price for the engineering thought and feature set that went into them and they shrank it down to an impressively small size for AT.

Not sure we will get them but I hope more companies want to throw almost everything in there and do it with some quality and not charge over $200.


----------



## howdy

The Diofit eartips that I bought for the Samsung Galaxy pro also fit perfectly on the Jabra 85t. I finally have a perfect fit for my ears.
Anyone with the large still being to small the Diofit XL work perfect with Jabra 85t and the case shuts like normal to. I like it so much I just may return the Galaxy pro, maybe.


----------



## tinyman392

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Manufacturers have a bit of a dilemma when it comes to making TWS, though...
> 
> Option 1 - Put every user-requested feature into the earbuds so everybody can potentially be happy. This has a very high implementation cost. Time to implement is completely dependent on the engineer's ability to say _no_, how many bin requests there are, how long they take to implement, and (hopefully) the testing time to ensure everything works prior to release. I'd say 1-2% of the industry probably lives here and most of them are very small operations.
> Option 2 - Build based on your largest demographic and ignore the rest. This is what most Chi-Fi companies tend to do as they'll just crank out a refreshed model in a few months. Most of these guys don't have the running capital for anything else and quantity over quality is the name of the game. Parts costs is kept as low as reasonably achievable, so it's more cost-effective to throw away RMA returns rather than perform repairs. This is where I'd say about 90% of the market lives these days.
> ...


To be honest some of us have also mentioned huge cases being a turn off when talking about certain TWS.  I also do prefer a smaller case as it does make transporting the headphones a lot easier.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

jant71 said:


> I think AT did a good job on the CKR70TW. On the features set and quality. You got the DLC coated driver with  tainless steel conduit and  ubycon capacitors for the sound. Both quick hear through tapping on the right and ambient tapping on the left. ANC is nothing special though it works just not as much as better ANC models that cancels out more. The beamform mics are good so the other functions besides ANC are quite good. You got the auto pause, a decent app with EQ, L/R balance, 64 volume step adjustment, locator function, and a good case that is small yet I am using 10mm long tips on them. Battery is 20 hours so decent with ANC and they split touch plus buttons for the controls. Also announce battery level upon insertion so you don't have to look on a phone though it will be there as well.
> 
> They just left out Qi charging but good quality and feature set for $199. and $172 at the time I purchased. Still I think fair price for the engineering thought and feature set that went into them and they shrank it down to an impressively small size for AT.
> 
> Not sure we will get them but I hope more companies want to throw almost everything in there and do it with some quality and not charge over $200.


AT is being smart, for a change. Based on your feedback, looks like they deserve plenty of credit. Sounds like a pretty strong competitor against the Technics now.


howdy said:


> The Diofit eartips that I bought for the Samsung Galaxy pro also fit perfectly on the Jabra 85t. I finally have a perfect fit for my ears.
> Anyone with the large still being to small the Diofit XL work perfect with Jabra 85t and the case shuts like normal to. I like it so much I just may return the Galaxy pro, maybe.


Nice find!


tinyman392 said:


> To be honest some of us have also mentioned huge cases being a turn off when talking about certain TWS.  I also do prefer a smaller case as it does make transporting the headphones a lot easier.


Kinda where I'm getting here. In the battle between small case/low tip compatibility and large case/high tip compatibility, Option 1 won.


----------



## erockg (Mar 25, 2021)

So, the UE Fits app was just updated and enables a single tap function to go along with the double tap function.  Anyone able to get this to work?  I'm on IOS and the single tap toggle doesn't show up when I'm paired.  Sigh...


----------



## tinyman392

erockg said:


> So, the UE Fits app was just updated and enables a single tap function to go along with the double tap function.  Anyone able to get this to work?  I'm on IOS and the single tap toggle doesn't show up when I'm paired.  Sigh...



I updated the app and it asks to install a firmware update (1.1.8).  If single tap does work, that'll add just enough control for what I want (play/pause, previous, next).  Waiting for them to update though.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

erockg said:


> So, the UE Fits app was just updated and enables a single tap function to go along with the double tap function.  Anyone able to get this to work?  I'm on IOS and the single tap toggle doesn't show up when I'm paired.  Sigh...


Of course I choose today to use them all day. I'm going to charge them up and check for myself. At least then I can report on the Android front.


----------



## tinyman392 (Mar 25, 2021)

erockg said:


> So, the UE Fits app was just updated and enables a single tap function to go along with the double tap function.  Anyone able to get this to work?  I'm on IOS and the single tap toggle doesn't show up when I'm paired.  Sigh...



I'm on iOS, but I do want to confirm that you have updated the firmware on them (1.1.8 is current) as they appeared after updating the firmware.

Edit: I think I know what you mean, it won't register a single tap 

Edit 2: if you have the option in the app, change it to anything, save, then change back.  Fixed the non-registering of single taps for me!

Sorry for all the edits.


----------



## erockg

tinyman392 said:


> I updated the app and it asks to install a firmware update (1.1.8).  If single tap does work, that'll add just enough control for what I want (play/pause, previous, next).  Waiting for them to update though.


Interesting.  I'm still on 1.0.5 firmware.  App is 1.19.1.1.


----------



## tinyman392

erockg said:


> Interesting.  I'm still on 1.0.5 firmware.  App is 1.19.1.1.


If you're on 1.0.5, that's likely the reason why you don't have the option, the firmware does need to be updated so the buds know that single taps exist.  You can try quitting the app, reentering, etc. and making sure your firmware is updated.  Also see my edits on getting it to register single taps...  I guess UE is still not 100% perfect with software.  I am on the same app version.


----------



## erockg

tinyman392 said:


> If you're on 1.0.5, that's likely the reason why you don't have the option, the firmware does need to be updated so the buds know that single taps exist.  You can try quitting the app, reentering, etc. and making sure your firmware is updated.  Also see my edits on getting it to register single taps...  I guess UE is still not 100% perfect with software.  I am on the same app version.


Yeah, I rebooted, reinstalled, unpaired, etc.  Emailed support.  Ugh.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

erockg said:


> Interesting.  I'm still on 1.0.5 firmware.  App is 1.19.1.1.


1.0.5 and no update option on Android. Oh well. Just installed the app update in the Play Store and rebooted as well. Cleared cache/data as well.

I don't think it's our time yet.


----------



## erockg

miserybeforethemusic said:


> 1.0.5 and no update option on Android. Oh well. Just installed the app update in the Play Store and rebooted as well. Cleared cache/data as well.
> 
> I don't think it's our time yet.


Argh.  Been hoping for more options.  Glad they’re listening.  Impatiently waiting...


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

erockg said:


> Argh.  Been hoping for more options.  Glad they’re listening.  Impatiently waiting...


Yeah, app's even on 1.19.3. Change Notes specifically call this as a one-button update out on the Play Store page. You know what that means?

There is no update. We are talking about Logitech here. I think 1.0.5 is the latest, even if it was a January release.


----------



## tinyman392

erockg said:


> Yeah, I rebooted, reinstalled, unpaired, etc.  Emailed support.  Ugh.


Are you iOS or Android?  


miserybeforethemusic said:


> 1.0.5 and no update option on Android. Oh well. Just installed the app update in the Play Store and rebooted as well. Cleared cache/data as well.
> 
> I don't think it's our time yet.


Oof, that’s no fun.  On the bright side, at least UE is trying to support firmware updates on iOS and Android.  The Fiio TWS only supports Android.  I ended up buying a phone just to update them in hopes that it would fix the volume going to full on start up randomly issue I had.  Android app on my phone won’t connect to them (the phone does though!).  Fiio’s latest suggestion to me was to go into a phone store and use one of their demo phones to update them 🤦‍♂️ 

I hope y’alls support talks (for those going that route) are more fruitful


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

tinyman392 said:


> Oof, that’s no fun.  On the bright side, at least UE is trying to support firmware updates n iOS and Android.  The Fiio TWS only supports Android.  I ended up buying a phone just to update them in hopes that it would fix the volume going to full on start up randomly issue I had.  Android app on my phone won’t connect to them (the phone does though!).  Fiio’s latest suggestion to me was to go into a phone store and use one of their demo phones to update them 🤦‍♂️
> 
> I hope y’alls support talks (for those going that route) are more fruitful


Eh I've had my fill of wanting to be the early adopter/beta tester at this point, so I'm willing to wait a couple days on this one.

Truth be told, I'd rather run these without any touch controls; my hair tends to set them off.

Also, I agree with you: Fiio really needs to get on their game and add an iOS development wing. Such a missed opportunity.


----------



## tinyman392

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Eh I've had my fill of wanting to be the early adopter/beta tester at this point, so I'm willing to wait a couple days on this one.
> 
> Truth be told, I'd rather run these without any touch controls; my hair tends to set them off.
> 
> Also, I agree with you: Fiio really needs to get on their game and add an iOS development wing. Such a missed opportunity.


My hair’s short, so I rarely set them off.  It’s kind of weird since their touch controls are still a little finicky.  I set them off by accident putting them in my ear, but they fail to register my taps like 10-20% of the time.  It can get annoying.  I feel the control is much needed though.  I was very excited when you posted since I have kind of been neglecting my UE Fits because of the lack of control despite really enjoying their sound signature.  

It’s ironic, Fiio has an iOS app and it works great.  It actually picks up the TWS headphones.  They just don’t support upgrading on iOS!  🤷‍♂️


----------



## zeinharis

Just wanted to share my EQ for Sony WF1000XM3 + Xelastec tips, improved the mids and soundstage.


----------



## alleroy

Besides Earin M-3, which other very small TWS which you would suggest are available at present time?


----------



## chinmie

I just bought the Buds Live, and comparing it to my other open TWS, i think i enjoy the Vooplay and Vivo Neo (both with foams). 

i haven't tested the ANC with constant droning machine sound, but i kinda don't like the fact that it boosted the bass EQ of the music too.. the touch is also a bit finicky. i ended up removing the rubber wings entirely so i can slide the buds deeper into my ears to have a fuller mids and bass.. i already ordered the silicone sleeves, hopefully it would raise the bass slightly. 

on the plus side, it's really comfortable on my ears


----------



## Caipirina

I caved and added the Jabra 85t to the stable and so far I am loving them. I did not know the app even has its own white noise / ambient sounds generator. Awesome. 

The fit is also great and the app confirms it. The only thing is that it feels not super secure, this is where I miss the wings of the Bose QC earbuds. I tried googling around, but has anyone tested any kind of wings with the 85t? Is there anything that would fit? I am already used to fitting wings onto my Sabbat X12 every time I take them out of the case, so that would not be the worst hassle.


----------



## Caipirina

chinmie said:


> I just bought the Buds Live, and comparing it to my other open TWS, i think i enjoy the Vooplay and Vivo Neo (both with foams).
> 
> i haven't tested the ANC with constant droning machine sound, but i kinda don't like the fact that it boosted the bass EQ of the music too.. the touch is also a bit finicky. i ended up removing the rubber wings entirely so i can slide the buds deeper into my ears to have a fuller mids and bass.. i already ordered the silicone sleeves, hopefully it would raise the bass slightly.
> 
> on the plus side, it's really comfortable on my ears


I think getting the fit right is really key, I think I got very lucky in that case. I ordered and tried the sleeves, but they don't add anything, actually slightly less comfortable ... 

I love the ANC and that slight bass boost ... the only thing I think I notice is that there are like 2 different phases / cycles in the ANC .. hard to explain, but the quality seems to even so slightly change back and forth .. like as if I suddenly change my jaw line by grinning and it effect the fit, but it happens when I don't do anything  ...


----------



## bubsdaddy

Caipirina said:


> I caved and added the Jabra 85t to the stable and so far I am loving them. I did not know the app even has its own white noise / ambient sounds generator. Awesome.
> 
> The fit is also great and the app confirms it. The only thing is that it feels not super secure, this is where I miss the wings of the Bose QC earbuds. I tried googling around, but has anyone tested any kind of wings with the 85t? Is there anything that would fit? I am already used to fitting wings onto my Sabbat X12 every time I take them out of the case, so that would not be the worst hassle.


I would also be a purchaser of any wings we can get to fit. I bought some SpinFits and they are an improvement over the stock oval tips but not a huge improvement. The SpinFits improve the 75ts quite a bit.


----------



## fursan7

DigDub said:


> Agree wholeheartedly. Oluv is just another fixed tuning by a guy who tunes it to his own preference. The Fiil t1 pro offers way more customization options and track back option.


https://forum.xda-developers.com/t/app-mod-fiil-english-translation.4250785/
Someone made a fiil+ app port in English.


----------



## chinmie

Caipirina said:


> I think getting the fit right is really key, I think I got very lucky in that case. I ordered and tried the sleeves, but they don't add anything, actually slightly less comfortable ...
> 
> I love the ANC and that slight bass boost ... the only thing I think I notice is that there are like 2 different phases / cycles in the ANC .. hard to explain, but the quality seems to even so slightly change back and forth .. like as if I suddenly change my jaw line by grinning and it effect the fit, but it happens when I don't do anything  ...



i just tested the ANC (my wife was using her hair dryer  ) it does cut the lowest frequency, but not much.. also that chime everytime i turn in on/off is annoyingly loud.. wish it could be turned off like the XM3.. i think i won't use the ANC for now.

now that it's quieter, i can appreciate the sound of it more. it has a wider/more spread sound compared to the vooplay, but now I'm starting to enjoy it too. 

it's really comfortable and i can lay my ears on the pillow without problems


----------



## Darkestred (Mar 26, 2021)

So, i am wondering if "custom" like fittings lower the BT Range since they become more absorbed by the human body.  I love the MT's but i have noticed they have some wonky reception.  No issues walking with the phone in my pocket or in open areas. But, when there are some obstructions is when the single starts to break in my cases.  I would rate their BT Range as slightly below average.

For instance, i have a deck where i'll put my phone on one of the support beams below.  The deck is 15 feet long.  If i walk around to the stairs (all open underneath) it starts to have issues.  But, if im wandering the 75 foot backyard - no issues.

Does anyone else who have had experience with more of an out the ear and in the ear notice the same thing with range/obstructions?


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

Darkestred said:


> So, i am wondering if "custom" like fittings lower the BT Range since they become more absorbed by the human body.  I love the MT's but i have noticed they have some wonky reception.  No issues walking with the phone in my pocket or in open areas. But, when there are some obstructions is when the single starts to break in my cases.  I would rate their BT Range as slightly below average.
> 
> For instance, i have a deck where i'll put my phone on one of the support beams below.  The deck is 15 feet long.  If i walk around to the stairs (all open underneath) it starts to have issues.  But, if im wandering the 75 foot backyard - no issues.
> 
> Does anyone else who have had experience with more of an out the ear and in the ear notice the same thing with range/obstructions?


Can't say that I had. I can use most pairs throughout the house, even if I leave my phone on the nightstand. What source are you using?


----------



## Caipirina

bubsdaddy said:


> I would also be a purchaser of any wings we can get to fit. I bought some SpinFits and they are an improvement over the stock oval tips but not a huge improvement. The SpinFits improve the 75ts quite a bit.


I am actually fine with the stock tips ... are there any oval tips that fit well? I really like the semi open feel. Works for me and my wonky ears.


----------



## Caipirina

chinmie said:


> i just tested the ANC (my wife was using her hair dryer  ) it does cut the lowest frequency, but not much.. also that chime everytime i turn in on/off is annoyingly loud.. wish it could be turned off like the XM3.. i think i won't use the ANC for now.
> 
> now that it's quieter, i can appreciate the sound of it more. it has a wider/more spread sound compared to the vooplay, but now I'm starting to enjoy it too.
> 
> it's really comfortable and i can lay my ears on the pillow without problems


I actually have the ANC always on and the touches blocked  So, I am not getting the annoying on / off sounds that much


----------



## Darkestred (Mar 26, 2021)

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Can't say that I had. I can use most pairs throughout the house, even if I leave my phone on the nightstand. What source are you using?



Note 10; its a workhorse.  The L2Ps can go anywhere in my house - no issues.  I leave my phone downstairs when i workout between sets and i'll come up to my room which above where i work out.  The MTs were clipping.  L2Ps, no issue.

Its not a huge issue but more so from curiosity.  I am ok with relegating the MTs to smallish range activities.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

Darkestred said:


> Note 10; its a workhorse.  The L2Ps can go anywhere in my house - no issues.  I leave my phone downstairs when i workout between sets and i'll come up to my room which above where i work out.  The MTs were clipping.  L2Ps, no issue.
> 
> Its not a huge issue but more so from curiosity.  I am ok with relegating the MTs to smallish range activities.


Interesting. The only time I ever really have a range issue is when it comes to placing my phone in my back pocket and the MTs were the first pair that didn't give me grief in that department. Hopefully there's an update that improves range for you.


----------



## Darkestred

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Interesting. The only time I ever really have a range issue is when it comes to placing my phone in my back pocket and the MTs were the first pair that didn't give me grief in that department. Hopefully there's an update that improves range for you.



If there is one, great.  If not, for what i use them for - they are great.  The small hiccups in circumstances that are of the lowest priority - i'll take the good with the bad.


----------



## Luke Skywalker

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Depends on which "one" we're talking about here. On second thought, knowing how often my wife loses her APPs, I might have to agree with you (only for different reasons).
> 
> Could save yourself some coin and go with the JBL or MW07 GO (unless you care about how you sound on phone calls, in which case pass on the M&D) and save some spare change, though. I also wouldn't shy away from the UE FITS for the reasons you mentioned, but I'm sure the Grado sound spectacular as well.


hey thanks for the advice!  I was actually thinking today about the Grado, wondering I’d they’d be good for “side sleeping”.  My KEFs are almost small enough but still not totally comfortable. I’ve heard the Grado’s stick in really deep so maybe they’d be good?

Anybody try side sleeping with the Grado’s or find any high end TWS that are good for that?


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

Luke Skywalker said:


> hey thanks for the advice!  I was actually thinking today about the Grado, wondering I’d they’d be good for “side sleeping”.  My KEFs are almost small enough but still not totally comfortable. I’ve heard the Grado’s stick in really deep so maybe they’d be good?
> 
> Anybody try side sleeping with the Grado’s or find any high end TWS that are good for that?


I have no idea. Truth be told, none of these TWS work for me as a side-sleeper. I wouldn't expect the Grado to be any different in that regard, but ymmv.


----------



## jant71 (Mar 26, 2021)

Luke Skywalker said:


> hey thanks for the advice!  I was actually thinking today about the Grado, wondering I’d they’d be good for “side sleeping”.  My KEFs are almost small enough but still not totally comfortable. I’ve heard the Grado’s stick in really deep so maybe they’d be good?
> 
> Anybody try side sleeping with the Grado’s or find any high end TWS that are good for that?



I think the Grado and also the Noble fit deep due to  longer bore length and not as much the whole earphone going deeper. Looks like they stick out a bit unless you have deep ear openings...


----------



## miserybeforethemusic (Mar 26, 2021)

jant71 said:


> I think the Grado and also the Noble fit deep due to  longer bore length and not as much the whole earphone going deeper. Looks like they stick out a bit unless you have deep ear openings...


Noble can fit deep, but it's not Ety deep and they still end up protruding too much. There's a hump on the back that keeps things extended pretty well past your concha past the antihelix. The way the Grado are pictured in your post are pretty close to what I experience as well.


----------



## pkcpga

Luke Skywalker said:


> hey thanks for the advice!  I was actually thinking today about the Grado, wondering I’d they’d be good for “side sleeping”.  My KEFs are almost small enough but still not totally comfortable. I’ve heard the Grado’s stick in really deep so maybe they’d be good?
> 
> Anybody try side sleeping with the Grado’s or find any high end TWS that are good for that?


I have the Noble which are deep and small but still wouldn’t be comfortable to side sleep like my custom IEMs.  ADV makes a custom TWS, the m5, they seem like they sit flush with the ear and shouldn’t have pressure points being custom.


----------



## Canabuc

75t actives arrived today. Shipped very fast from USA. 
Ordered grey though wanted blue. What came seems almost black in color. Looks great. Forgot how small they were.

Think my stable is done. Jabra will be my mudders and maybe workouts for Dat Bass!

Freebuds pro will be my casual listening travel and work buds given ANC multipairing and really good all around sound for Al genres.

MT can also be workout buds and we'll just love their sound.

I think 2022 maybe 1 bud will have form factor and op rating of 75t ANC and multipoint quality of Huawei with secure fit and lush sound of MT.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

Canabuc said:


> 75t actives arrived today. Shipped very fast from USA.
> Ordered grey though wanted blue. What came seems almost black in color. Looks great. Forgot how small they were.
> 
> Think my stable is done. Jabra will be my mudders and maybe workouts for Dat Bass!
> ...


Glad you like 'em. Now try 'em with some Final tips


----------



## Canabuc (Mar 26, 2021)

Send me those final tips to try. Need Large and LL!
😉


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

Canabuc said:


> Send me those final tips to try. Need Large and LL!
> 😉


In lieu of recent events, not sure I trust anything I send out to make it to its destination right now. MTs and the Nobles didn't move at all today. That's not normal.


----------



## alleroy

Luke Skywalker said:


> Anybody try side sleeping with the Grado’s or find any high end TWS that are good for that?



I am interested in this feature too: what about Earin A-3?


----------



## Luke Skywalker

miserybeforethemusic said:


> In lieu of recent events, not sure I trust anything I send out to make it to its destination right now. MTs and the Nobles didn't move at all today. That's not normal.


Because of that big a$s boat stuck in the Suez Canal? That's pretty crazy how easy it is to block such a major waterway.  Where's superman when we need him


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

Luke Skywalker said:


> Because of that big a$s boat stuck in the Suez Canal? That's pretty crazy how easy it is to block such a major waterway.  Where's superman when we need him


That canal story gets weirder the more you look into it, but things are going to get a lot worse if they can't free that ship by Monday (especially if it's taken on water). May have to say goodbye to Chi-Fi as an "affordable" alternative for a while.

Just hope my Edifiers made it over first...


----------



## miserybeforethemusic (Mar 27, 2021)

@erockg it's showtime baby!


----------



## cleg

My video about PaMu Quiet. Nothing spectacular about the sound, pretty normal ANC, but… I'm using them time to time simply because I like playing with their case


----------



## pkcpga

alleroy said:


> I am interested in this feature too: what about Earin A-3?


Personally I don’t see any of them working without being custom, the housing needs to hold not only the driver but the battery, Bluetooth chip/dac chip as well.


----------



## erockg

miserybeforethemusic said:


> @erockg it's showtime baby!


Awwwww yeah!


----------



## erockg

alleroy said:


> I am interested in this feature too: what about Earin A-3?


I have them and use them all the time in certain situations. They basically just sit in your ear and could definitely fall out while you’re sleeping. That said, I have not tried sleeping with them yet. I’ll test this out one night and report back.


----------



## Luke Skywalker

miserybeforethemusic said:


> That canal story gets weirder the more you look into it, but things are going to get a lot worse if they can't free that ship by Monday (especially if it's taken on water). May have to say goodbye to Chi-Fi as an "affordable" alternative for a while.
> 
> Just hope my Edifiers made it over first...


Ya it really is weird.  I remember a few years one of the dictators or Supreme Masters over there threatened to blockade the Suez Canal and I just  laughed, thinking it was some giant waterway.  Benefits of an American public edumucation I guess


----------



## SilverEars

Does UE Fits have good balanced sound?  I've been curious about them?


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

SilverEars said:


> Does UE Fits have good balanced sound?  I've been curious about them?


Yes, they're considerably more balanced than most of the mainstream offerings. There's a couple midrange peaks that you can tame to taste, but I think it starts you off much closer to neutral.


----------



## Naschy

Hey everyone. I’m thinking about getting the Fiil T1 Pro. Seems the sound signature would be more to my taste. If anyone has them, can they recommend some tips, that also still fit in the case? I want to achieve a more secure, comfortable fit. Spinfits, foam?


----------



## Canabuc

Naschy said:


> Hey everyone. I’m thinking about getting the Fiil T1 Pro. Seems the sound signature would be more to my taste. If anyone has them, can they recommend some tips, that also still fit in the case? I want to achieve a more secure, comfortable fit. Spinfits, foam?


I find I get a great fit with the stock tips which is rare for me


----------



## Naschy

Canabuc said:


> I find I get a great fit with the stock tips which is rare for me


That’s good to know. I need something that will really grip and seal because work has me sweating and moving about a lot.


----------



## erockg

Pandemic life.  I’m so pathetic.  New addition to the collection.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

erockg said:


> Pandemic life.  I’m so pathetic.  New addition to the collection.


Whaddya think?


----------



## tinyman392

SilverEars said:


> Does UE Fits have good balanced sound?  I've been curious about them?



It does have a very good balance overall.  The 5-band EQ does allow you to have a bit of control over it too; the headphones don’t default to a “flat” EQ either as it defaults over to UE’s EQ which is not flat (they depict this in app).  I’m not sure what the true tuning of the driver actually is (and how much DSP they’re using).  Outside the “custom” tips, there are no special features for this IEM though; it’s more of a no-frills setup.  Isolation isn’t the strongest with the tips for me as they kind of are shallow on me, but they are second in terms of comfort to a CIEM IMO.  

UE does have a 30 day risk-free trial, so if you’re not happy, you can send them back.  If you don’t want to put down a ton of money up front, their Affirm offer has 12-months 0% (so you pay like 20 bucks and change up front).


----------



## erockg

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Whaddya think?


Overpaid, I'm sure, but whatever.  I only have the Ety ER4XR's and these Moondrops are fun.  More bass.  The Fostex's seem to be working well.  No battery case, but the adapters last around 10 hrs, probably less.  I knew what I was getting into.  They're very light.  Barely noticeable compared to the Shure TW1's.  Soundstage is wide.  You can EQ in the app if need be.  They really do make an album like Dokken's Back for the Attack which was mastered in the 80's, sound really great.  Loud Love by Soundgarden is hypnotic.


----------



## erockg (Mar 27, 2021)

tinyman392 said:


> It does have a very good balance overall.  The 5-band EQ does allow you to have a bit of control over it too; the headphones don’t default to a “flat” EQ either as it defaults over to UE’s EQ which is not flat (they depict this in app).  I’m not sure what the true tuning of the driver actually is (and how much DSP they’re using).  Outside the “custom” tips, there are no special features for this IEM though; it’s more of a no-frills setup.  Isolation isn’t the strongest with the tips for me as they kind of are shallow on me, but they are second in terms of comfort to a CIEM IMO.
> 
> UE does have a 30 day risk-free trial, so if you’re not happy, you can send them back.  If you don’t want to put down a ton of money up front, their Affirm offer has 12-months 0% (so you pay like 20 bucks and change up front).


+1 on those UE Fits.  Love mine.  Plus, UE's customer service is stellar.  They also told me that they're working on a true wireless adapter for their fitted IEM's.  No release date yet.  I also suggested they add a passthrough/transparency mode to the rep.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

tinyman392 said:


> Outside the “custom” tips, there are no special features for this IEM though; it’s more of a no-frills setup.  Isolation isn’t the strongest with the tips for me as they kind of are shallow on me, but they are second in terms of comfort to a CIEM IMO.


But...but...we have volume control now!

Seriously, though, these are basically listen-only TWS. They'll take calls, too, but won't do much else. And I absolutely love them anyway.

Just wish that the UE did a bit more in the features department. Having all of that Logitech R&D at their disposal and not using it is such a tease.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

erockg said:


> Overpaid, I'm sure, but whatever.  I only have the Ety ER4XR's and these Moondrops are fun.  More bass.  The Fostex's seem to be working well.  No battery case, but the adapters last around 10 hrs, probably less.  I knew what I was getting into.  They're very light.  Barely noticeable compared to the Shure TW1's.  Soundstage is wide.  You can EQ in the app if need be.  They really do make an album like Dokken's Back for the Attack which was mastered in the 80's, sound really great.  Loud Love by Soundgarden is hypnotic.


Only Moondrop I've heard is the Kanas Pro and really wish those had more of the fun factor, but man are they smooth otherwise. Glad you found a good combo.

Here's a Navarro side project if you fancy. Sounds like it'd be a lot of _fun_ on that combo:


----------



## erockg

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Only Moondrop I've heard is the Kanas Pro and really wish those had more of the fun factor, but man are they smooth otherwise. Glad you found a good combo.
> 
> Here's a Navarro side project if you fancy. Sounds like it'd be a lot of _fun_ on that combo:



Moondrop makes a bunch of good ones evidently.  I've been analyzing the Crinacle list: https://crinacle.com/rankings/iems/
I've heard of that side project.  Been a while.  Added!
Here's one right back at you:


----------



## Knightsfan11

Does anyone use True Wireless phones while cycling? If so, can you report whether wind noise occurs? I'm guessing if you get a good seal, it shouldn't..
Am looking at getting the Sennheiser CX400BT headphones as they are on special at the moment & I've read they perform as well as the Momentums, just without ANC


----------



## tinyman392

erockg said:


> +1 on those UE Fits.  Love mine.  Plus, UE's customer service is stellar.  They also told me that they're working on a true wireless adapter for their fitted IEM's.  No release date yet.  I also suggested they add a passthrough/transparency mode to the rep.


A TWS adapter will be awesome.  The new multi-driver Etymotic uses the same connectors as the UE custom I think (T2/IPX).  So it’ll be exciting to see if they can do something without the need to go through Foster (which is super expensive).



miserybeforethemusic said:


> But...but...we have volume control now!
> 
> Seriously, though, these are basically listen-only TWS. They'll take calls, too, but won't do much else. And I absolutely love them anyway.
> 
> Just wish that the UE did a bit more in the features department. Having all of that Logitech R&D at their disposal and not using it is such a tease.


I personally don’t mind the no-frills, listen-only setup, but there are a certain demographic of people who require that their TWS do everything.  I honestly don’t want to know what the Fits would cost if they incorporated ANC tech and other things.  Even then, I’d still question how good it would end up being; granted it would be their first rodeo with ANC (they had a full-sized BT headphone way back when with somewhat average ANC).


----------



## miserybeforethemusic (Mar 28, 2021)

Knightsfan11 said:


> Does anyone use True Wireless phones while cycling? If so, can you report whether wind noise occurs? I'm guessing if you get a good seal, it shouldn't..
> Am looking at getting the Sennheiser CX400BT headphones as they are on special at the moment & I've read they perform as well as the Momentums, just without ANC


Seems like ANC during a bike ride would result in the chuffing (that wind noise you're talking about) being more apparent, not less. I'd say if that's a top priority for you, the Cambridge Melomania Touch or ADV's custom TWS are probably going to be your best bets, if you can afford to spend that much.

Aside from that, maybe the Jabra Elite Active 75t manages to stay close enough to the ear that it's not a big problem, but can't tell you from personal experience whether that's the case.

And, truth be told, even the non-custom version of those ADVs looks really impressive. I'm about 95% sure I'm going to have to add that to the stable, especially if it gives promise to a true custom that I could use wirelessly.


tinyman392 said:


> I personally don’t mind the no-frills, listen-only setup, but there are a certain demographic of people who require that their TWS do everything.  I honestly don’t want to know what the Fits would cost if they incorporated ANC tech and other things.  Even then, I’d still question how good it would end up being; granted it would be their first rodeo with ANC (they had a full-sized BT headphone way back when with somewhat average ANC).


I really don't, either. It's honestly really refreshing when I need to do work around the house and the knowledge that they won't budge once they're in is a major plus. It's also fantastic that I can hit pause and hear people well enough passively that I don't feel like I have to remove and reinsert them every time.


----------



## tinyman392

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Seems like ANC during a bike ride would result in the chuffing (that wind noise you're talking about) being more apparent, not less. I'd say if that's a top priority for you, the Cambridge Melomania Touch or ADV's custom TWS are probably going to be your best bets, if you can afford to spend that much.
> 
> Aside from that, maybe the Jabra Elite Active 75t manages to stay close enough to the ear that it's not a big problem, but can't tell you from personal experience whether that's the case.
> 
> I really don't, either. It's honestly really refreshing when I need to do work around the house and the knowledge that they won't budge once they're in is a major plus. It's also fantastic that I can hit pause and hear people well enough passively that I don't feel like I have to remove and reinsert them every time.


Most IEMs I use tend to be stable in my ears regardless which is nice.  The UE are just so comfortable.  The one thing I did realize quickly when I took them out yesterday was that the touch controls don’t work nearly as well in louder environments.  I think since it likely uses a microphone to ”hear” taps, the louder environment could create issues for detecting taps.  Moving to a quiet office fixed all of that quickly though.


----------



## Knightsfan11

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Seems like ANC during a bike ride would result in the chuffing (that wind noise you're talking about) being more apparent, not less. I'd say if that's a top priority for you, the Cambridge Melomania Touch or ADV's custom TWS are probably going to be your best bets, if you can afford to spend that much.
> 
> Aside from that, maybe the Jabra Elite Active 75t manages to stay close enough to the ear that it's not a big problem, but can't tell you from personal experience whether that's the case.


So something without ANC might be a better option for me?


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

Knightsfan11 said:


> So something without ANC might be a better option for me?


Correct. All that rushing air basically freaks out the ANC mics and they go haywire. Pretty tough to implement properly, so go for good aerodynamics over active tech. I just tried to show you a couple suggestions that fit that criteria.


----------



## Knightsfan11

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Correct. All that rushing air basically freaks out the ANC mics and they go haywire. Pretty tough to implement properly, so go for good aerodynamics over active tech. I just tried to show you a couple suggestions that fit that criteria.


Thanks.
Your suggestions are more than I'd like to pay, for the purpose. 
Looking at Jabra Elite Active 75t. Hopefully be able to try them on.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

Knightsfan11 said:


> Thanks.
> Your suggestions are more than I'd like to pay, for the purpose.
> Looking at Jabra Elite Active 75t. Hopefully be able to try them on.


If you decide going that route, keep an eye on Jabra's eBay store. You can usually snag these refurbished for a deep discount over paying retail for them new and I don't think a single one of the folks here (myself included) that have chosen to do so have encountered an issue. Fwiw, I spent $80 for the EA75t and $150 for the 85t by going that route. Can save even more when eBay's running coupons, but that's not a requirement.


----------



## samandhi

Knightsfan11 said:


> So something without ANC might be a better option for me?


Think of ANC as something like computer programing algorithms that control an analog signal. It uses a PID (proportional, integral, and derivitive) loop to adjust on the fly (how much change, how fast to change, when to stop based on history). The limitation is that it is tuned to a certain speed of reaction, and can't be changed without reprogramming it. So, when you hit them with random timed, and levels (DB) of wind, for instance, it cannot change enough on the fly to compensate. It needs time to analyze the level of noise, and frequency, etc... so it can create the anti-noise to cancel it out. Sudden changes actually exacerbate it more than not having ANC at all.


----------



## Knightsfan11

I saw on the Jabra website, for the 75t, they have some wind prevention technology? Have you got any opinion on how it works? Guessing ANC can be turned off as well.
Currently using my wired Westone W30 IEM's, but getting sick of a cable.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

Knightsfan11 said:


> I saw on the Jabra website, for the 75t, they have some wind prevention technology? Have you got any opinion on how it works? Guessing ANC can be turned off as well.
> Currently using my wired Westone W30 IEM's, but getting sick of a cable.


Might have more to do with the microphones for calls than it does with preventing wind noise from entering your ears, so I wouldn't put too much stock in it. Truth be told, there's still going to be a learning curve to going fully wireless, but I think you're going to appreciate the comfort in knowing you'll never risk having a cable get caught up in your gears. Been there. Never want to do it again.


----------



## C_Lindbergh

Knightsfan11 said:


> Does anyone use True Wireless phones while cycling? If so, can you report whether wind noise occurs? I'm guessing if you get a good seal, it shouldn't..
> Am looking at getting the Sennheiser CX400BT headphones as they are on special at the moment & I've read they perform as well as the Momentums, just without ANC



I would not get the CX400 for that purpose since they don't have an ambient mode.


----------



## regancipher

I've seen the Kinera YH623 get some love here before - I know they've been around a while but they're currently £14.99 at Amazon UK, cheaper than I ever remember seeing them on Aliexpress - Link


----------



## Caipirina

Terrible addiction this audio hobby, now especially with TWS .. it seems I can never have enough ... 
In the last few weeks I got the Bose QC Earbuds AND the Jabra 85t and consider them both endgame material ... 
and yet ... 
I keep wondering ... 

WHAT NEXT? 

anyone else? 

and seriously, what next? 
(Oh, I also have the Amazon Echobuds waiting in the UK for me, pending visa for the courier)


----------



## Caipirina

cleg said:


> My video about PaMu Quiet. Nothing spectacular about the sound, pretty normal ANC, but… I'm using them time to time simply because I like playing with their case



Nice, I keep seeing now ads on my FB for the 'mini' version at 59$


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

Caipirina said:


> Terrible addiction this audio hobby, now especially with TWS .. it seems I can never have enough ...
> In the last few weeks I got the Bose QC Earbuds AND the Jabra 85t and consider them both endgame material ...
> and yet ...
> I keep wondering ...
> ...


How about that ADV custom?


----------



## Typo2 (Mar 28, 2021)

Caipirina said:


> Terrible addiction this audio hobby, now especially with TWS .. it seems I can never have enough ...
> In the last few weeks I got the Bose QC Earbuds AND the Jabra 85t and consider them both endgame material ...
> and yet ...
> I keep wondering ...
> ...


Yes.

Currently rocking...

Oppo Enco X
Kef mu3
Samsung galaxy buds pro (my least fav..)
Libratone Track Air+ (my old trusty)

Id put them roughly in that order overall, kef wins for sound.

What next? Pi7? Wf-1000m4? OnePlus Colorbuds Pro?

Thats the 3 im eyeing up.


----------



## Caipirina

miserybeforethemusic said:


> How about that ADV custom?


Interesting, did not see those before ... (I admit I had to google search and wade through many motorcycles first) 
but no way I can get those here  If I find something in this small island market place at all, it has to be fairly mainstream ... or old! Saw one e-vendor still trying to sell the first Sony WF1000 for about 250$   

I could get the Galaxy Buds Pro, for some strange reason the official Samsung store here only offers them in that weird lilac color.


----------



## clerkpalmer

So my love affair with the 75t is ending. Bought them for my riding bike. I am getting a ton of wind noise and they keep slipping out just enough to make the wind unbearable. Tried M and L stock tips. No difference. The M30 are much quieter in every respect. Before I send them back, any tips?


----------



## Caipirina

Typo2 said:


> Yes.
> 
> Currently rocking...
> 
> ...


Some interesting food for thought ... I see that I could get the Oppo Enco W31 here ... so, maybe in a few months they have the Enco X  
I had been looking at the Kefs for a bit ... also interesting ... never got around to try the Libratones.

Has there been any word if / when XM4 might be happening? I remember that one rumor / leak design pic ... 

And what's Pi7?


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

clerkpalmer said:


> So my love affair with the 75t is ending. Bought them for my riding bike. I am getting a ton of wind noise and they keep slipping out just enough to make the wind unbearable. Tried M and L stock tips. No difference. The M30 are much quieter in every respect. Before I send them back, any tips?


Try different tips. The stock ones are slippery. Do you have foams you can slip on? If not, I can confirm the EA75t don't budge in my ear once the Small Final tips are on.

Sorry they're slipping out. Alternatively, you could kinda wear a 'do rag to hold them in place. Fabric should be light enough to still allow the microphones to work. Might look a little goofy, but might help.

And if that doesn't work, there's always that Kickstarter for rubber bands for your ears I linked back (only half-kidding).


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

Caipirina said:


> Some interesting food for thought ... I see that I could get the Oppo Enco W31 here ... so, maybe in a few months they have the Enco X
> I had been looking at the Kefs for a bit ... also interesting ... never got around to try the Libratones.
> 
> Has there been any word if / when XM4 might be happening? I remember that one rumor / leak design pic ...
> ...


The Pi7 is a rumored B&W flagship. Basically takes the Pi5 that's due out and gives it steroids in driver count, ANC, and probably some other features I can't remember. We're expecting retail to be about $400 on it. Making them the second-most expensive TWS I've found and the most expensive universal TWS.

Problem is all the product pages have been pulled. They may end up only available by request and within the dealer network.

As for the XM4, nothing new. Sony's staying pretty hush-hush about it.


----------



## clerkpalmer

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Try different tips. The stock ones are slippery. Do you have foams you can slip on? If not, I can confirm the EA75t don't budge in my ear once the Small Final tips are on.
> 
> Sorry they're slipping out. Alternatively, you could kinda wear a 'do rag to hold them in place. Fabric should be light enough to still allow the microphones to work. Might look a little goofy, but might help.
> 
> And if that doesn't work, there's always that Kickstarter for rubber bands for your ears I linked back (only half-kidding).


Thanks. Not your fault ... lol. I think the lack of a wing is the problem. I had the original Jabra elite sport and the 65 and the bigger size actually helped them stay put. Are the final tips available for stand alone purchase anywhere? Any other suggestions worth trying? I think they need to have low profile for wind. Interestingly I had no issues with the MTW2 on my bike.  Maybe I’ll go back to those.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic (Mar 28, 2021)

clerkpalmer said:


> Thanks. Not your fault ... lol. I think the lack of a wing is the problem. I had the original Jabra elite sport and the 65 and the bigger size actually helped them stay put. Are the final tips available for stand alone purchase anywhere? Any other suggestions worth trying? I think they need to have low profile for wind. Interestingly I had no issues with the MTW2 on my bike.  Maybe I’ll go back to those.


Might be worth going back to the Senns if they're a known quantity for you. Here's a link to the Final tips. They shipped reasonably fast:

https://www.mtmtaudio.com/collectio...-for-true-wireless-bluetooth-earphone-2-pairs

And I'd definitely buy them again as their silicone (might be ptfe, not sure) is super soft and non-irritating.

If not those, then the Dekoni TWS foam tips I got have been working really well stretched over the Noble X; if they can hold those in place, I have to imagine they're good for the EA75t as well. Once the family is up and running here, I'll check fit to make sure they won't pop off the short EA75t stem.

https://dekoniaudio.com/product/dek...black-the-mercury-true-wireless-4-9mm-3-pack/

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Dekoni-Aud...7?pageci=8fe00d3e-768f-4f8f-a12e-bd49504f98ea

For some reason, these are slightly different. I think the ones in the eBay link have a slower rebound on the foam whereas the Mercury have effectively no rebound time at all. I could be wrong, though.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

clerkpalmer said:


> Thanks. Not your fault ... lol. I think the lack of a wing is the problem. I had the original Jabra elite sport and the 65 and the bigger size actually helped them stay put. Are the final tips available for stand alone purchase anywhere? Any other suggestions worth trying? I think they need to have low profile for wind. Interestingly I had no issues with the MTW2 on my bike.  Maybe I’ll go back to those.


Might be worth going back to the Senns if they're a known quantity for you. Here's a link to the Final tips. They shipped reasonably fast:

https://www.mtmtaudio.com/collectio...-for-true-wireless-bluetooth-earphone-2-pairs

And I'd definitely buy them again as their silicone (might be ptfe, not sure) is super soft and non-irritating.

If not those, then the Dekoni TWS foam tips I got have been working really well stretched over the Noble X; if they can hold those in place, I have to imagine they're good for the EA75t as well. Once the family is up and running here, I'll check fit to make sure they won't pop off the short EA75t stem


----------



## Canabuc (Mar 28, 2021)

Well my white MT going back. It takes a good 10 tries to get the right earbud charging. I have to rotate the right bud clockwise and then it is 50 50 if it turns red and charges
First pair was not like that at all the only issue first pair was the creaky case.

Still in fence about the white. They look nice and all but my bed and sheets are white and man I can never find the case or bud if they end up on the bed. Worried wil get filthy in a few months too.

wondering if people with right ear bu case issues mainly had the whit ear black model?
wonder if it’s random or maybe a certain manufacturing batch that has issues.


----------



## howdy

Caipirina said:


> Terrible addiction this audio hobby, now especially with TWS .. it seems I can never have enough ...
> In the last few weeks I got the Bose QC Earbuds AND the Jabra 85t and consider them both endgame material ...
> and yet ...
> I keep wondering ...
> ...



I'm down these after selling a few.
Sony XM3 
Sennheiser MTW 
Jabra 85t 
Jabra 75t
Samsung galaxy pro
Lypertec Tevi 
I'm going to see how long I can stick it out with these.


----------



## C_Lindbergh

Canabuc said:


> Well my white MT going back. It takes a good 10 tries to get the right earbud charging. I have to rotate the right bud clockwise and then it is 50 50 if it turns red and charges
> First pair was not like that at all the only issue first pair was the creaky case.
> 
> Still in fence about the white. They look nice and all but my bed and sheets are white and man I can never find the case or bud if they end up on the bed. Worried wil get filthy in a few months too.
> ...


I had this issue on my first black pair.


----------



## jant71

After getting some new wireless stuff, just grabbed a Senn HD250Bt and the also new Soundblaster Jam V2 among them, I thought letting something go if I can barely use it. Most interesting would be the Victor FX100T and figure I'd post here before making a FS thread if any were wanting to try them here in the US. You can check most of the reviews on Amazon Japan and ask me any Q's.


----------



## Canabuc

C_Lindbergh said:


> I had this issue on my first black pair.


I just figured out if I put them into the case and rotate a tiny bit clockwise as it seats it makes the connection to power off and turn on red charging light every time. If I put them in any other way it fails 90%. Debating if I return or repurchase or just accept as is as it seems this is a common issue and next pair might be as bad or worse.


----------



## SoundChoice

Canabuc said:


> Well my white MT going back. It takes a good 10 tries to get the right earbud charging. I have to rotate the right bud clockwise and then it is 50 50 if it turns red and charges
> First pair was not like that at all the only issue first pair was the creaky case.
> 
> Still in fence about the white. They look nice and all but my bed and sheets are white and man I can never find the case or bud if they end up on the bed. Worried wil get filthy in a few months too.
> ...


I have the white MT also, and to make the right bud-in-case issue worse, need XL tips and medium wings on it, making the snug case even more of a, um, challenge. It's taken a lot of trial and error, but I've got a tolerable solution that works. When putting them away, with music playing and the left ear still in, take out the right one and hold it a 1/4 inch over case and drop in. You're looking for the right bud to start glowing red, which can be hard to see in bright light, so I also rely on music stopping in my left ear. 

1 in 5 or 8 times the music in my left ear stops the first try.
If not, I push the edge of the right bud in the case the corner closest to the front of the case and wait a second. 1 in 2 times this makes it hit the contacts, the music in the left stops and things are happy. If not, take the R bud out and drop it in again, then try the front-corner push. The more I try this, the better my success rate gets. 

Is this ideal? No. 

Is it workable? Yes, with patience.

Is it acceptable from a premium brand for this price? Reasonable people can disagree. The sound is indeed very nice (I'm learning to love it with the bass EQ'd up), but there are many other TWS with pretty good sound where all this fussing isn't necessary just to put the buds away so you can do some other task. Whether the nice sound is worth this hassle I'll leave up to you. I'm still in my return window, and less likely to return now than I was a week ago, but that window ain't closed yet.

I hope this helps!


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

No-go on foam tips with the EA75t. I didn't feel confident enough with the purchase any of them had on the nozzle. Would hate to see someone lose a bud on the go as a result.


----------



## Canabuc

SoundChoice said:


> I have the white MT also, and to make the right bud-in-case issue worse, need XL tips and medium wings on it, making the snug case even more of a, um, challenge. It's taken a lot of trial and error, but I've got a tolerable solution that works. When putting them away, with music playing and the left ear still in, take out the right one and hold it a 1/4 inch over case and drop in. You're looking for the right bud to start glowing red, which can be hard to see in bright light, so I also rely on music stopping in my left ear.
> 
> 1 in 5 or 8 times the music in my left ear stops the first try.
> If not, I push the edge of the right bud in the case the corner closest to the front of the case and wait a second. 1 in 2 times this makes it hit the contacts, the music in the left stops and things are happy. If not, take the R bud out and drop it in again, then try the front-corner push. The more I try this, the better my success rate gets.
> ...


The dropping in the case worked for my first pair. Doesn't with this pair.
What does work is to out them in gently and give a slight clockwise turn. This is only necessary on the right side. That turn seems to get the pins lined up and all is good. So far this is working so might just hold on despite initiating a return with Amazon as I figured this trick out after the return request.
Just worried if sale price goes back up and I need an exchange if this stops working....

Which XL tips you using? I actually find if I have no tip on the fit in case for charging seems worse.
Feels as if the right magnet isn't aligned properly to pull the budin such a way as to force good contact with the charging pins.


----------



## Kuli

Just received my Oluv tuned Earfun free pro. Had to immediately swap the tips with RIYO memory foam tips. I have to say,  my immediate reaction can be summed up as impressed. Only been listening for a few hours, so haven't tested features like noise canceling etc. Not expecting much in that department


----------



## assassin10000 (Mar 28, 2021)

Knightsfan11 said:


> I saw on the Jabra website, for the 75t, they have some wind prevention technology? Have you got any opinion on how it works? Guessing ANC can be turned off as well.
> Currently using my wired Westone W30 IEM's, but getting sick of a cable.



Maybe grab the Fiio UTWS3 to use with your Westones?

Has the lowest OI/noise floor of the TWS adapters that I'm aware of.


Or given your use the BT20S or BT20S Pro. If you don't mind some noise. This is my UM Pro 10's on my modded BT20S.


----------



## turbobb (Mar 28, 2021)

clerkpalmer said:


> Thanks. Not your fault ... lol. I think the lack of a wing is the problem. I had the original Jabra elite sport and the 65 and the bigger size actually helped them stay put. Are the final tips available for stand alone purchase anywhere? Any other suggestions worth trying? I think they need to have low profile for wind. Interestingly I had no issues with the MTW2 on my bike.  Maybe I’ll go back to those.


I found the EA75t to be creating some pressure on my concha which became uncomfortable with prolonged wear. What helped for me is after inserting them to rotate them (CCW for R and CW for L) into the bottom part of the concha so that the antitragus would basically be hugging them (on a set with wings [like SSF or MW07] you'd be rotating the opposite direction so the wings would slot into the Antihelix/Helix Lock).

This made it much more comfortable to wear and further improved the grip that was already very good; worn in this manner, I need to pry them out of my ears, they are simply not going to be falling out on their own (of course YMMV but give it a shot if you haven't already).

EDIT: while this might address your fit issue not sure about the wind issue.


----------



## C_Lindbergh

Canabuc said:


> I just figured out if I put them into the case and rotate a tiny bit clockwise as it seats it makes the connection to power off and turn on red charging light every time. If I put them in any other way it fails 90%. Debating if I return or repurchase or just accept as is as it seems this is a common issue and next pair might be as bad or worse.



You shouddn't have to care how you put them in, as long as it connects to the magnets. If you have to check it every time then you loose much of the convenience of TWS.


----------



## X-Nemesis

Does a 3rd party wing exist for the earfun pro's?


----------



## Canabuc (Mar 28, 2021)

C_Lindbergh said:


> You shouddn't have to care how you put them in, as long as it connects to the magnets. If you have to check it every time then you loose much of the convenience of TWS.



I agree and hence my frustrations. Initially I couldn't do anything to ensure they made proper contact to get them to charge.
Now when I slot it with a slight clockwise twist it seems to work 100% of time. It adds zero time to the endeavor. Better than what I had with the Technic earbuds when often I thought they were seated and they weren't....

Deciding what to do. I also reached out to Cambridge audio via amazon to see what they have to say.


----------



## zeinharis

Caipirina said:


> Terrible addiction this audio hobby, now especially with TWS .. it seems I can never have enough ...
> In the last few weeks I got the Bose QC Earbuds AND the Jabra 85t and consider them both endgame material ...
> and yet ...
> I keep wondering ...
> ...


Nuarl N10 Pro perhaps?. If you like rumbling hard hitting bass (sub), N10 Pro is not for you, but if you values timbres and neutral sounding headphones then the N10 Pro might suits you


----------



## Canabuc

zeinharis said:


> Nuarl N10 Pro perhaps?. If you like rumbling hard hitting bass (sub), N10 Pro is not for you, but if you values timbres and neutral sounding headphones then the N10 Pro might suits you


Huawei freebuds pro.


----------



## Slowhand

clerkpalmer said:


> Looks like M&D has a new offering. Slightly bigger driver and likely real ANC. I struggle with the fit on these so that’s a bummer. Certainly look the part:
> 
> https://www.engadget.com/master-and-dynamic-mw08-true-wireless-earbuds-120013056.html
> 
> ...



Some better pics below. Looks smaller than the MW07 Go to me but measurements should be available on Tuesday. Regardless, the fit looks different from previous gens!


----------



## Slowhand (Mar 28, 2021)

C_Lindbergh said:


> Personally I hope we'll see BLE products coming out this year
> 
> But yeah, usually the advice in tech is that there will always be better stuff, so just buy when you need it. But the upcoming next gen standardised bluetooth will be a huge upgrade, it will even outshine when we got APTX instead of SBC.
> 
> So if Sony/B&W/M&D  etc launches new TWS with current Bluetooth tech it would just feel like such a waste to buy them. At least the CA MT's are very cheap considering they've only been out for a couple of months.



The lack of clarity on the net around BLE is really frustrating, haha.

Are we sure LC3 provides a sound quality improvement over AAC/aptX? No doubt in the efficiency of the codec and BLE also bringing individual earphone pairing (to be possible on iPhones, finally) but I cannot get a clear read on SQ improvements aside from SBC.

Then there is the piece around Bluetooth 5.2 supposedly being able to support BLE/LC3 once final specifications are set - remains to be seen... At least M&D has an app now which opens the window to firmware updates.

Also, if all the phones releasing in 2021 come out with Bluetooth 5.2 and it won't support BLE or able to be updated retroactively then we have to wait for the next cycle to have the source and the buds both be on BLE? 

I've been hanging on to my first and only TWS (MW07 GO) diligently since its release but now I need something new. Debating M&D MW08 or CA MT (and upgrading much sooner, gifting the MT's to family eventually).

The Sony's seem so far out and $300 is my limit (out of principle, for TWS) so that rules out B&W


----------



## C_Lindbergh (Mar 28, 2021)

Slowhand said:


> The lack of clarity on the net around BLE is really frustrating, haha.
> 
> Are we sure LC3 provides a sound quality improvement over AAC/aptX? No doubt in the efficiency of the codec and BLE also bringing individual earphone pairing (to be possible on iPhones, finally) but I cannot get a clear read on SQ improvements aside from SBC.
> 
> ...



If the MW08 have the latest Qualcomm chip they might be upgradable to support BLE/LC3 once the final specifications are done later this year. It would be great if M&D made some sort of statement about that once we see the final specs, the incredible battery life seems to indicate that they do in fact have the latest Qualcomm chip. The 300 EUR mark is also were my limit is when it comes to TWS, since sooner or later the battery will degrade, however given that you can get around 12 h from the MW08, they should last a very long time before the battery becomes too inefficient.

BLE/LC3 is so much more than sound quality, I doubt it will sound much better, but the key is that there's no need to pay Qualcomm a royalty fee, every new BT device will support it from the get go.

It will also bring loads of other features like Audio Share, Multi-stream, individual connections (for TWS), low latency/high energy efficiently codec (LC3). I mean it will revolutionese the audio market, thus i'm quite hesitant to spend much money on BT devices at this time.

There's also the mysterious LC3plus, which should give LDAC a run for its money when it comes to sound quality, no idea if that codec will be avaible for TWS tho. Either way the future for bluetooth audio seems really bright 

https://www.iis.fraunhofer.de/en/ff/amm/communication/lc3.html


----------



## PixelSquish

Not sure what is going on with my Melomania Touch's. Just the last few days they refuse to connect with my Google Pixel 5 when I first take them out of the case. I have to put them back in the case and take them out again. Anyone else having this type of issue with them?


----------



## C_Lindbergh

PixelSquish said:


> Not sure what is going on with my Melomania Touch's. Just the last few days they refuse to connect with my Google Pixel 5 when I first take them out of the case. I have to put them back in the case and take them out again. Anyone else having this type of issue with them?



Yea, it has happened to me 2 times, had to reset them...There's just something very wrong with them. They do work most of the time, but 90% of all competitors bascially works 10/10 times.  I still got almost a week for me return window, not sure if I'm gonna keep them.


----------



## CocaCola15 (Mar 28, 2021)

Kuli said:


> Just received my Oluv tuned Earfun free pro. Had to immediately swap the tips with RIYO memory foam tips. I have to say,  my immediate reaction can be summed up as impressed. Only been listening for a few hours, so haven't tested features like noise canceling etc. Not expecting much in that department


Got mine too. I found some tips that work for me and very nice ... but had to tip the bass quite a bit using the Kaiser Audio app 30-band EQ. Sound fine now and so small and comfy. More to come...

Nice pair of TW phones, but still favor the Melomania Touch/M1+/Status Between Pro, which all cost more and deliver superior sound, no EQ required.

The Oluv-tuned Earfun are okay, but OOB tuning just not my cup of tea. Not a fair comparison but For neutral/flat signature the Ety ER4XR is the go-to IEM. Curiosity got me. I’ll sell them but worth a listen.

Work best with jazz/acoustic/classical genres.


----------



## Canabuc

C_Lindbergh said:


> Yea, it has happened to me 2 times, had to reset them...There's just something very wrong with them. They do work most of the time, but 90% of all competitors bascially works 10/10 times.  I still got almost a week for me return window, not sure if I'm gonna keep them.


Haven't had that issue though sometimes one seems to say connected long after the other despite them both playing. Other little glitches.
I so love the sound but....no other bud except the Technics ever gave me issues.


----------



## PixelSquish

Canabuc said:


> Haven't had that issue though sometimes one seems to say connected long after the other despite them both playing. Other little glitches.
> I so love the sound but....no other bud except the Technics ever gave me issues.


Probably returning my MT. Too many glitches. Maybe I'll put that 150 towards the new M&W


----------



## zeinharis

Canabuc said:


> Huawei freebuds pro.


Haven’t heard one of those, but I’m sure they are good


----------



## Canabuc (Mar 29, 2021)

Listening to my freebuds pro now after having had to reset the Melomania touch when the right bud just wouldn't play music.

Really pain in the a$$.

Think I will return them but not sure I will replace them. With wavelet I have the Huawei tuned and sound every bit as great to me. Feel bass great mids and enough detail in the highs without being too peaky or harsh in the treble.

I really want to like the MT but quality control has been poor. Reminds me of the Jaguar Cars in the 70s and 80s. Were great except they were in for repairs all the time.


----------



## Kuli

CocaCola15 said:


> Got mine too. I found some tips that work for me and very nice ... but had to tip the bass quite a bit using the Kaiser Audio app 30-band EQ. Sound fine now and so small and comfy. More to come...
> 
> Nice pair of TW phones, but still favor the Melomania Touch/M1+/Status Between Pro, which all cost more and deliver superior sound, no EQ required.
> 
> ...


The memory foam tip made the Oluv tuned earfun free pro really come alive. I get a complete seal and it sounds better, to my own taste, than the boomy MT. I ended up returning the MT early due to connection issues.

Now compared to my Sennheiser cx400 bt. I have to EQ the Senn to get it close to the Oluv which needs no EQ. I found it closer to the Lypertek Tevi using the same memory foam tip. But it slightly edges out the lypertek IMO. I'll compare it to my Technics next. But nice little buds they are, will serve me well at the gym. Love the convenience, the tiny case. Sucks that I can't close it with the memory foam tips.


----------



## Caipirina

bubsdaddy said:


> I would also be a purchaser of any wings we can get to fit. I bought some SpinFits and they are an improvement over the stock oval tips but not a huge improvement. The SpinFits improve the 75ts quite a bit.



those are the wings that come with the Sabbat X12. It _kinda_ works... but loose on the front tip. Not sure if I would test that out on a trail run  good thing is that there’s no optical sensor to keep in mind and I think the mics are also not covered ....


----------



## Jmm722 (Mar 29, 2021)

After 3 years of daily use I lost my Jaba 65t Active earbuds.  So, I need a new pair of earbuds that can withstand the gym, but are decent for phone calls.

I returned the AirPod Pros, as I couldn’t get a good fit, even with multiple tips.

Current thoughts are: Jabra 75t, Powerbeats Pro, and Bose Sport; but I’m sure I’m missing other options.  I prefer bass heavy and need to be able to hear around me (either ambient mode or less isolation) as I run on the street.

I prefer bass for workouts, which is why I’m    not looking at Jaybirds.


----------



## Canabuc

For bass heavy go Jabra.
Melomania touch
Earfun free pro


----------



## pkcpga

Jmm722 said:


> After 3 years of daily use I lost my Jaba 65t Active earbuds.  So, I need a new pair of earbuds that can withstand the gym, but are decent for phone calls.
> 
> I returned the AirPod Pros, as I couldn’t get a good fit, even with multiple tips.
> 
> ...


Bass - Jabra or Sony wf800N


----------



## bubsdaddy

Caipirina said:


> those are the wings that come with the Sabbat X12. It _kinda_ works... but loose on the front tip. Not sure if I would test that out on a trail run  good thing is that there’s no optical sensor to keep in mind and I think the mics are also not covered ....


It may be hard to tell from these photos but the stem of the 85t is forcing the SpinFits into an oval shape.


----------



## TK33

Slowhand said:


> Some better pics below. Looks smaller than the MW07 Go to me but measurements should be available on Tuesday. Regardless, the fit looks different from previous gens!


This article says that they are smaller than the MW07 Go (which is great) but the improvements overall seem to be incremental and the companion app seems a bit half baked.  Call quality also seems to be just passable so sounds like I may be using my MW07 Go for a bit longer and maybe skipping this generation. Also seems to point to some of the older (and now cheaper) true wireless buds as cheaper alternatives (such as the Jabra 85T or MTW2). I really like my MW07 Go but finding it hard to get excited for the MW08 for some reason.  Hoping to see some impressions here that will change my mind.

https://www.engadget.com/master-and-dynamic-mw08-review-true-wireless-earbuds-143027692.html

In the meantime, back to waiting for an MTW3.


----------



## PixelSquish

TK33 said:


> This article says that they are smaller than the MW07 Go (which is great) but the improvements overall seem to be incremental and the companion app seems a bit half baked.  Call quality also seems to be just passable so sounds like I may be using my MW07 Go for a bit longer and maybe skipping this generation. Also seems to point to some of the older (and now cheaper) true wireless buds as cheaper alternatives (such as the Jabra 85T or MTW2). I really like my MW07 Go but finding it hard to get excited for the MW08 for some reason.  Hoping to see some impressions here that will change my mind.
> 
> https://www.engadget.com/master-and-dynamic-mw08-review-true-wireless-earbuds-143027692.html
> 
> In the meantime, back to waiting for an MTW3.


I'm curious about the next gen of MTW. And the next Sony's. Read a bunch of reviews on the MW08 and also not 100% sold


----------



## Canabuc

Right now seems like my freebuds pro have nothing to fear for a while.
Bluetooth 5.2. 
multipoint connection
Single bud use
Qi charging
Full control on bud
Great ANC and ambient mode
Great sound but no in built EQ yet.


----------



## zeinharis

Canabuc said:


> Listening to my freebuds pro now after having had to reset the Melomania touch when the right bud just wouldn't play music.
> 
> Really pain in the a$$.
> 
> ...


Now I got to listen those freebuds pro, thanks for the heads up.


Jmm722 said:


> After 3 years of daily use I lost my Jaba 65t Active earbuds.  So, I need a new pair of earbuds that can withstand the gym, but are decent for phone calls.
> 
> I returned the AirPod Pros, as I couldn’t get a good fit, even with multiple tips.
> 
> ...


Nuarl N6 Sports
Jabra 75t
Sony WF-SP800N


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

Jmm722 said:


> After 3 years of daily use I lost my Jaba 65t Active earbuds.  So, I need a new pair of earbuds that can withstand the gym, but are decent for phone calls.
> 
> I returned the AirPod Pros, as I couldn’t get a good fit, even with multiple tips.
> 
> ...


Natural progression would be the 75t Active (don't get the regular one), though you might appreciate the locked-in feeling the Earfun Free Pro's fins get you. I just think the 75t Active does a better job of separating the bass and midrange than Earfun did.  Both improve with EQ.


----------



## Canabuc

zeinharis said:


> Now I got to listen those freebuds pro, thanks for the heads up.
> 
> Nuarl N6 Sports
> Jabra 75t
> Sony WF-SP800N



For freebuds pro are you on Android? If so make sure to install wavelet to get equalizer for your music. Only because it needs a slight bump in the treble to improve detail and soundstage. Still worth getting as it has every feature on a bud.


----------



## tiagopinto (Mar 29, 2021)

Knightsfan11 said:


> Does anyone use True Wireless phones while cycling? If so, can you report whether wind noise occurs? I'm guessing if you get a good seal, it shouldn't..
> Am looking at getting the Sennheiser CX400BT headphones as they are on special at the moment & I've read they perform as well as the Momentums, just without ANC



I’ve used my MT while riding my mountain bike. When on the trails I don’t need transparency mode. And I get great sound. But if you want to listen to your buddies or traffic, you turn it on and... above 10km/h (very easy, of course) or with strong wind, it gets very annoying.
I guess by design most will amplify outside noise in transparency mode and amplify wind with it. 

Someone here has mentioned the Haylou T16 to be more forgiving with wind noise but I haven’t tested them.

I believe if you ride a road bike, all bets are off, because you are faster (more wind noise) and you always have to listen to traffic.

EDIT: I’ve seen a few posts about fit and the MT’s are great here. The fins just give you that extra security. Passive isolation for wind is great and with music on you’ll hear very little from the outside.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic (Mar 30, 2021)

Looks like a pretty decent cost of entry for the Falcon line. Someone here might be interested. New, not refurbished, according to the listing:

https://www.nobleaudio.com/bstock-open-box-clearance/p/falcon-white

In other news, completely on the fence about whether I want to look into upgrading the trusty-dusty Cayin N5iiS. It sounds bloody fantastic and the thing is built like a tank, but its screen is tiny, UI is slow, and there's a lot of midrange options that now offer MQA unfolding (gimmick or otherwise, still nice to have). On the short list, I have the HiBy R5 Saber, Cayin N3 Pro, iBasso DX160 and Shanling M6 Pro. Not sure I want to go into kilobuck territory, though of course I think we'd all love a LPGT if someone else was footing the bill...


----------



## Slowhand

TK33 said:


> This article says that they are smaller than the MW07 Go (which is great) but the improvements overall seem to be incremental and the companion app seems a bit half baked.  Call quality also seems to be just passable so sounds like I may be using my MW07 Go for a bit longer and maybe skipping this generation. Also seems to point to some of the older (and now cheaper) true wireless buds as cheaper alternatives (such as the Jabra 85T or MTW2). I really like my MW07 Go but finding it hard to get excited for the MW08 for some reason.  Hoping to see some impressions here that will change my mind.
> 
> https://www.engadget.com/master-and-dynamic-mw08-review-true-wireless-earbuds-143027692.html
> 
> In the meantime, back to waiting for an MTW3.


Yeah, I am also awaiting proper reviews, not going to order blindly. 

For me there is enough to upgrade my MW07 Go -> larger drivers, AAC support (as opposed to SBC), hybrid ANC (as opposed to MW07 Plus feedback ANC) and firmware updates available through the app. It would be nice if the app offered EQ but some streaming services offer it natively as well (e.g. Spotify). Call quality is a fair bit down my list of priorities. 

I would be surprised if MTW3 launches in 2021 though. 

We got B&W PI5/PI7 coming soon but what I've read is that they offer about 5 hours of battery life; I wouldn't be comfortable on something that is below 7 hours (taking into account battery degradation et cetera). Not to mention the projected price of PI7. PI5 is apparently feedback ANC, and PI7 hybrid. 

Sony's might be an August launch. 

I think 2nd gen KEF or 3rd gen Cambridge can be interesting options down the line as well.


----------



## tinyman392

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Looks like a pretty decent cost of entry for the Falcon line. Someone here might be interested. New, not refurbished, according to the listing:
> 
> https://www.nobleaudio.com/bstock-open-box-clearance/p/falcon-white
> 
> In other news, completely on the fence about whether I want to look into upgrading the trusty-dusty Cayin NiiS. It sounds bloody fantastic and the thing is built like a tank, but its screen is tiny, UI is slow, and there's a lot of midrange options that now offer MQA unfolding (gimmick or otherwise, still nice to have). On the short list, I have the HiBy R5 Saber, Cayin N3 Pro, iBasso DX160 and Shanling M6 Pro. Not sure I want to go into kilobuck territory, though of course I think we'd all love a LPGT if someone else was footing the bill...



Not a bad price for those; I really like the case Noble was using for their entry level since they are tiny.  To get some scale, the case is smaller than the APP, super portable and not bad sounding either.


----------



## clerkpalmer

Slowhand said:


> We got B&W PI5/PI7 coming soon but what I've read is that they offer about 5 hours of battery life; I wouldn't be comfortable on something that is below 7 hours (taking into account battery degradation et cetera). Not to mention the projected price of PI7. PI5 is apparently feedback ANC, and PI7 hybrid.


Any idea what "soon" means? I'd be more interested in the PI7 but it's looking like vaporware.

 So, new MW08 or Kef - that is the question?  And will either sound better than the Gemini?


----------



## Canabuc

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Looks like a pretty decent cost of entry for the Falcon line. Someone here might be interested. New, not refurbished, according to the listing:
> 
> https://www.nobleaudio.com/bstock-open-box-clearance/p/falcon-white
> 
> In other news, completely on the fence about whether I want to look into upgrading the trusty-dusty Cayin NiiS. It sounds bloody fantastic and the thing is built like a tank, but its screen is tiny, UI is slow, and there's a lot of midrange options that now offer MQA unfolding (gimmick or otherwise, still nice to have). On the short list, I have the HiBy R5 Saber, Cayin N3 Pro, iBasso DX160 and Shanling M6 Pro. Not sure I want to go into kilobuck territory, though of course I think we'd all love a LPGT if someone else was footing the bill...


Think I would go for the falcon 2 for much better specs at 139 myself and go for the blue lol


----------



## clerkpalmer

clerkpalmer said:


> Any idea what "soon" means? I'd be more interested in the PI7 but it's looking like vaporware.
> 
> So, new MW08 or Kef - that is the question?  And will either sound better than the Gemini?


Answering my own question looks like the MW08 is ditching the stabilizer wings. Strange choice. That’s a deal breaker for me.


----------



## CocaCola15 (Mar 29, 2021)

Kuli said:


> The memory foam tip made the Oluv tuned earfun free pro really come alive. I get a complete seal and it sounds better, to my own taste, than the boomy MT. I ended up returning the MT early due to connection issues.
> 
> Now compared to my Sennheiser cx400 bt. I have to EQ the Senn to get it close to the Oluv which needs no EQ. I found it closer to the Lypertek Tevi using the same memory foam tip. But it slightly edges out the lypertek IMO. I'll compare it to my Technics next. But nice little buds they are, will serve me well at the gym. Love the convenience, the tiny case. Sucks that I can't close it with the memory foam tips.


Have not even tried foam tips figuring they would not fit in the case. Guess I should give them a try, but the case thing is a PITA to me. I don't find the MTs boomy, like the sound, and connection issues are not happening with the white ones I have (did send back my first pair). Go figure. But I will try foam tips on the Earfun.

Update update: You are right. I found a pair of Comply tips and these phones really came to life, and they excel with instrumental genre (jazz, acoustic). Sadly, I had to amend my last update as the phones won't charge with the Complys, even though I can close the case. So I need to store them without the foam tips, which is not great. I can't remember what Comply type they are, but they are grey and have a wax screen and are bulb-shaped. If I try to see what Comply fits the Earfun models, the Free Pro is not listed, only the Free. And it does not look like the body of the Free Pro in the photo. Plus the recommended Comply is black/cone shaped, not bulb shaped nor grey.

Then, there is the fact that 3 pair of Complys cost 1/3 the price of the Earfuns. And Complys are not known for their longevity. I did not use EQ, just streamed a bunch of different tracks via Amazon Music HD. Sounded very nice.


----------



## tiagopinto

A friend of mine, knowing my penchant for sound reproduction gadgets, go figure... told me “take my Tevi’s for a week, test them out and let me know what you think”.

At the time he got his, like a year ago, I tried talking him into buying the Melomania 1’s... he went for the Tevi’s. I showed him my MT’s this weekend but we didn’t have the opportunity for him to test mine or me his. 

I listened to the Tevi for a few hours today but don’t have a complete conclusion. I’m gonna do an MT/Tevi direct comparison and I’ll give you my humble opinion.


----------



## Slowhand

clerkpalmer said:


> Any idea what "soon" means? I'd be more interested in the PI7 but it's looking like vaporware.


Had to involve some pandemic-related delays I'd imagine as certain Danish retailers listed info about them already last year.

Latest info I saw somewhere on the net was PI7 in April and PI5 in May - if that is the case then comms should come sooner rather than later.



clerkpalmer said:


> So, new MW08 or Kef - that is the question?  And will either sound better than the Gemini?


Good question  have not heard the Gemini's but can't say I am a fan of the design


----------



## clerkpalmer

Slowhand said:


> Had to involve some pandemic-related delays I'd imagine as certain Danish retailers listed info about them already last year.
> 
> Latest info I saw somewhere on the net was PI7 in April and PI5 in May - if that is the case then comms should come sooner rather than later.
> 
> ...


They actually fit better than you would think but they aren’t suitable for exercise.


----------



## zeinharis (Mar 29, 2021)

Canabuc said:


> For freebuds pro are you on Android? If so make sure to install wavelet to get equalizer for your music. Only because it needs a slight bump in the treble to improve detail and soundstage. Still worth getting as it has every feature on a bud.


Currently both my phones are on iOS (i11 & i8), but I’m getting an android phone next month, considering those new Asus ROG phone, they looked really badass.

Any way, here’s another EQ for Sony WF1000XM3




For me the EQ setting sounds really good with this songs


----------



## erockg

clerkpalmer said:


> They actually fit better than you would think but they aren’t suitable for exercise.


Completely agree.  I returned mine because of the little issues, but cannot wait for the re-release supposedly mid-April.  Gemini were by far one of my all-time favorite TWS.


----------



## Canabuc

zeinharis said:


> Currently both my phones are on iOS (i11 & i8), but I’m getting an android phone next month, considering those new Asus ROG phone, they looked very badass.
> 
> Any way, here’s another EQ for Sony WF1000XM3
> 
> ...


Does iOS have ew settings? If not what music app do you use as some have EQ within


----------



## zeinharis

Canabuc said:


> Does iOS have ew settings? If not what music app do you use as some have EQ within


No they don’t unfortunately, but I can always use the Flacbox’s EQ though, it offers 10 band equalizer


----------



## Canabuc

zeinharis said:


> No they don’t unfortunately, but I can always use the Flacbox’s EQ though, it offers 10 band equalizer


Well would give freebuds pro a try then. To be safe just buy from a retailer you can return if you don't like.
There is an iOS app so you are good as far as having controls over the ANC and ambient modes etc.


----------



## FYLegend

New Sabbat G12 Elite is geared for gamers. They have a low latency mode and Realtek chip. Not sure how good Realtek is now but the original E12 had rather spotty connectivity on my phone.

I wish they just made something in-ear with ambient mode and ANC.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

Canabuc said:


> Think I would go for the falcon 2 for much better specs at 139 myself and go for the blue lol


Sure, but how many other opportunities are you going to get a pair of Noble for under a hundred bucks? Good gift idea?


clerkpalmer said:


> Answering my own question looks like the MW08 is ditching the stabilizer wings. Strange choice. That’s a deal breaker for me.


Yep. Mine are unusable without them. Maybe someone else's ears are more forgiving, though.

---

Looks like there's a new feature update for the 85t. This was in the change log for an Android app update:


----------



## erockg

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Sure, but how many other opportunities are you going to get a pair of Noble for under a hundred bucks? Good gift idea?
> 
> Yep. Mine are unusable without them. Maybe someone else's ears are more forgiving, though.
> 
> ...


I can't use those wings.  They kill my ears.  I'll get the MW08's and report back for sure.

The Fostex TM2's seem to be taking over my listening sessions.  Wow.  I can't get enough of them with the Moondrop Starfield.  Might return and upgrade to something even more high end.  Seriously enjoying them.  I recommend anyone to try them out.  Just walked a mile and zero dropouts.  Fingers crossed they're the real deal.  Either I'm losing my hearing or these suckers sure do rock.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

erockg said:


> I can't use those wings.  They kill my ears.  I'll get the MW08's and report back for sure.
> 
> The Fostex TM2's seem to be taking over my listening sessions.  Wow.  I can't get enough of them with the Moondrop Starfield.  Might return and upgrade to something even more high end.  Seriously enjoying them.  I recommend anyone to try them out.  Just walked a mile and zero dropouts.  Fingers crossed they're the real deal.  Either I'm losing my hearing or these suckers sure do rock.


Full disclosure: that's been me and the Noble X this week after I found out just how darn well they play out of the phone with one of those ddhifi dongles...man, those things are tiny.

But they're going to have to sit tight again for a while...

Round 2 with the NFP is about to begin! Noble gets all my praise on how they handled this one. No specifics required; I just wish it went like that every time something didn't go quite right. Makes sense why Jim's fans are so loyal.


----------



## Knightsfan11

Bought the Jabra Elite Active 75t yesterday & wore them this morning on my 40km ride into work (road bike). I had ANC turned off, they worked great. Very minimal wind noise, I'd say it's on par with the wired Westone W30's I was using in the past.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

Knightsfan11 said:


> Bought the Jabra Elite Active 75t yesterday & wore them this morning on my 40km ride into work (road bike). I had ANC turned off, they worked great. Very minimal wind noise, I'd say it's on par with the wired Westone W30's I was using in the past.


And no potential for a major mishap from an overzealous chain! Glad they're working out. Hope they continue to do so.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

In case anybody was curious as to whether aptX Adaptive really can do what it claims to do, the answer (in my experience) is a big "maybe." Found a way for HiBy's Android app to display what the output signal was, which should at least give us an indication for what Adaptive is really calling for out of the media player.

Sample track was a 24/96 FLAC of Disturbed's "Prayer" from _Believe:

_


----------



## Canabuc

miserybeforethemusic said:


> In case anybody was curious as to whether aptX Adaptive really can do what it claims to do, the answer (in my experience) is a big "maybe." Found a way for HiBy's Android app to display what the output signal was, which should at least give us an indication for what Adaptive is really calling for out of the media player.
> 
> Sample track was a 24/96 FLAC of Disturbed's "Prayer" from _Believe:
> _


Hence why I suggested the falcon 2 as they support APTX adaptive


----------



## Knightsfan11

miserybeforethemusic said:


> And no potential for a major mishap from an overzealous chain! Glad they're working out. Hope they continue to do so.


Thanks for the info yesterday.
I had to set custom EQ as the bass is too harsh out of the box. Will keep fiddling with the sound, but overall, happy.

I did add ANC to my profile, so I guess if I use them when out & about, not riding, I'll just switch that on. ANC to me seems fairly good. In the TWS world, I've only experienced the Sony's & Nuraloops.

Did you have a preferred EQ for these?


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

Canabuc said:


> Hence why I suggested the falcon 2 as they support APTX adaptive


I still think the codec is in beta form, though. Bandwidth seems very dependent on factors the user can't always control and the type of artifacting it produces when things do go south are unpleasant, to say the least.

For now, they work. If someone wants to go for the Falcon 2 in the $150-ish bracket, I won't tell them no. Both the Noble X and Falcon Pro are exceptionally-well-tuned, but not each tuning is going to sit well with a universal group of listeners. From someone who used to think they just completely wasted their money on the X and finally "got" them for a chance (they're a pair of IEMs that are supposed to play everything well, but nothing exceptionally well), I'd say the juice is worth the squeeze.


Knightsfan11 said:


> Thanks for the info yesterday.
> I had to set custom EQ as the bass is too harsh out of the box. Will keep fiddling with the sound, but overall, happy.
> 
> I did add ANC to my profile, so I guess if I use them when out & about, not riding, I'll just switch that on. ANC to me seems fairly good. In the TWS world, I've only experienced the Sony's & Nuraloops.
> ...


If I choose to run EQ, it's usually done via an Android app called Neutralizer. I'd suggest giving that (or Wavelet, a free analogue) a chance first. My profile ended up looking like this:

If you're willing to "invest" in the Final Audio TWS tips, that might help with some of the bloom as well. I've heard the Sednafit XELASTEC tend to work really well, too, but I can't vouch for their ability to stay on the nozzle.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic (Mar 29, 2021)

Now, that being said, my listening notes from this evening are nothing short of great.


Zero flex
Insertion and removal is a breeze, even single-handed
Equally enjoyable at low or high volumes (and can get blisteringly loud, if desired...60% is already pushing it)
Extremely well-isolating
About as comfortable and "disappearing" in the ear as the UEs
Seems to have handled every genre I've thrown at it
Perhaps there was something in significant need of repair with pair 1, but these make up for it in spades. I'm floored, guys.

@erockg what hat should I eat?


----------



## Knightsfan11

I actually put my SpinFit 360's on immediately, not the stock tips. I have Sednafit Xelastec tips at home & quickly put them on, but with such a short nozzle, I feel they'll get stuck in my ear when removing the headphone. 

Also, using an iPhone.. so unless you know of any system wide EQ apps, I'm stuck with the Jabra app.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

Knightsfan11 said:


> I actually put my SpinFit 360's on immediately, not the stock tips. I have Sednafit Xelastec tips at home & quickly put them on, but with such a short nozzle, I feel they'll get stuck in my ear when removing the headphone.
> 
> Also, using an iPhone.. so unless you know of any system wide EQ apps, I'm stuck with the Jabra app.


In that case, I assume it's a 5-band? Try dipping the 2nd and 3rd sliders to your taste. Only thing I thought they really needed was some taming in the midbass-midrange transition.


----------



## erockg

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Full disclosure: that's been me and the Noble X this week after I found out just how darn well they play out of the phone with one of those ddhifi dongles...man, those things are tiny.
> 
> But they're going to have to sit tight again for a while...
> 
> Round 2 with the NFP is about to begin! Noble gets all my praise on how they handled this one. No specifics required; I just wish it went like that every time something didn't go quite right. Makes sense why Jim's fans are so loyal.


Photos of unboxed, sealed TWS makes me add them to my cart.  You're awful.  Finger is hovering...


----------



## erockg

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Now, that being said, my listening notes from this evening are nothing short of great.
> 
> 
> Zero flex
> ...


Kogi BBQ?  Oops, they're closed on Mondays.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

erockg said:


> Kogi BBQ?  Oops, they're closed on Mondays.


If I didn't just load up on a whole bunch of tacos, I would have gladly gone for KBBQ. Awesome gogi place not too far from here.

Man, these are good. They're like fun UEs.


----------



## pkcpga

Slowhand said:


> Had to involve some pandemic-related delays I'd imagine as certain Danish retailers listed info about them already last year.
> 
> Latest info I saw somewhere on the net was PI7 in April and PI5 in May - if that is the case then comms should come sooner rather than later.
> 
> ...


Unfortunately two dealers in the USA stated the P17 has been removed from their order list but P15 should be out within the next month and they are taking preorders.


----------



## Canabuc

miserybeforethemusic said:


> I still think the codec is in beta form, though. Bandwidth seems very dependent on factors the user can't always control and the type of artifacting it produces when things do go south are unpleasant, to say the least.
> 
> For now, they work. If someone wants to go for the Falcon 2 in the $150-ish bracket, I won't tell them no. Both the Noble X and Falcon Pro are exceptionally-well-tuned, but not each tuning is going to sit well with a universal group of listeners. From someone who used to think they just completely wasted their money on the X and finally "got" them for a chance (they're a pair of IEMs that are supposed to play everything well, but nothing exceptionally well), I'd say the juice is worth the squeeze.
> 
> ...



Wavelet actually has an auto EQ profile for 75t and active 75t.
It cuts way too much bass though.
So I used the equalizer from the wavelet app and sort of copied the profile but with a bit more bass and treble as the auto EQ dropped like 10db at each end.
Actually sounds very good now though not up with the MT or my FBP but better than I can get it with the built in 5 band EQ.


----------



## bladefd

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Now, that being said, my listening notes from this evening are nothing short of great.
> 
> 
> Zero flex
> ...


For $330, I would hope it has all that and more! 

$330 is probably too much for the average consumer (like yours truly) though unfortunately. I looked at them a few months back, but as soon as I saw the price tag, I knew I wouldn't be buying them. Another thing that pushed me away was having to pay return shipping and a restocking fee. And of course, it wasn't being sold on Amazon, probably for this reason. Noble would not be able to charge a restocking fee through Amazon, would lose some margin to Amazon, and be at the mercy of Amazon's policies.

They do look nice though! I really wanted to try the older Falcon 2 tbh - they probably can hold their own against the MT. Falcon 2 wasn't sold on Amazon either so I skipped over Falcon altogether. Had I not liked Falcon 2, I would have pretty much dumped $30 to return (return shipping + restocking fee), which would be 1/5 of the total value of the Falcon 2. Just wasn't worth the risks to me.


----------



## Canabuc

miserybeforethemusic said:


> I still think the codec is in beta form, though. Bandwidth seems very dependent on factors the user can't always control and the type of artifacting it produces when things do go south are unpleasant, to say the least.
> 
> For now, they work. If someone wants to go for the Falcon 2 in the $150-ish bracket, I won't tell them no. Both the Noble X and Falcon Pro are exceptionally-well-tuned, but not each tuning is going to sit well with a universal group of listeners. From someone who used to think they just completely wasted their money on the X and finally "got" them for a chance (they're a pair of IEMs that are supposed to play everything well, but nothing exceptionally well), I'd say the juice is worth the squeeze.
> 
> ...



Also looking at your neutralizer I think either of understand it wrong but your profile looks like the opposite of the wavelet auto EQ. You have boosted the bass and treble and lowers the mids which seems the opposite of what the buds need as the treble is too peaky and bass to much with mids recessed.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

bladefd said:


> For $330, I would hope it has all that and more!
> 
> $330 is probably too much for the average consumer (like yours truly) though unfortunately. I looked at them a few months back, but as soon as I saw the price tag, I knew I wouldn't be buying them. Another thing that pushed me away was having to pay return shipping and a restocking fee. And of course, it wasn't being sold on Amazon, probably for this reason. Noble would not be able to charge a restocking fee through Amazon, would lose some margin to Amazon, and be at the mercy of Amazon's policies.
> 
> They do look nice though! I really wanted to try the older Falcon 2 tbh - they probably can hold their own against the MT. Falcon 2 wasn't sold on Amazon either so I skipped over Falcon altogether. Had I not liked Falcon 2, I would have pretty much dumped $30 to return (return shipping + restocking fee), which would be 1/5 of the total value of the Falcon 2. Just wasn't worth the risks to me.


Oh don't get me wrong; they're not cheap, but I'd feel much more confident now in telling someone that only wants to buy once, cry once that these are well worth it.

Of course they're not perfect, but they're comfortable enough to have just gone through a 4-hour marathon of just about any genre I could think to throw at it. Having that combo of seemingly endless sub-bass that somehow manages to stay controlled along with the ample treble extension to ensure metallic noises don't lose their realism, things get really addicting. It's one of the reasons I'll probably snag the Falcon 1 and maybe even the 2, anyway; would be great to compare what you get with each jump up the price ladder. I realize not everybody has disposable funds like this, especially given the current climate; please don't take my gushing as a requirement that anybody has to spend this much; I'm just taking a bunch of risks.


Canabuc said:


> Also looking at your neutralizer I think either of understand it wrong but your profile looks like the opposite of the wavelet auto EQ. You have boosted the bass and treble and lowers the mids which seems the opposite of what the buds need as the treble is too peaky and bass to much with mids recessed.


I haven't read up on the methodology in a while, but the graph basically plots an inverse relationship with the adjustments it makes. There's some other auto-gain voodoo that happens in the background as well, but it's really not representative to the adjustments being made. For example, I've made some dips down to 4% that look completely level with neighboring adjustments that were only brought down to 30%.


----------



## zeinharis

Now I know where Nuarl gets it’s accurate timbres especially on the mids and on the trebles, one of the reasons is their tips. Right now I’m using their Block Ear+ on my XM3 and the sound is solid, no more digital grainy trebles


----------



## XmarX

Was looking for a budget bluetooth earbud and found Jays T Four. 
My budget is $30-40 and I would be using it for phone calls, podcasts, netflix and may be a little gaming (PC gaming).

So, is it good?


----------



## Windmolinos (Mar 30, 2021)

I have just received the VIVO TWS, and I have to say that I would never imagine that an open TWS could sound so great...
Obviously they are not at the level of MT for obvious physical reasons, but for me it is impossible to wear a closed ones.
So I'm more than happy! and for 60USD!
And I'm not even using the aptx adaptive as my mobile doesn't support it...

https://gadgets.ndtv.com/audio/revi...eless-earphones-review-price-in-india-2288149


----------



## pkcpga

bladefd said:


> For $330, I would hope it has all that and more!
> 
> $330 is probably too much for the average consumer (like yours truly) though unfortunately. I looked at them a few months back, but as soon as I saw the price tag, I knew I wouldn't be buying them. Another thing that pushed me away was having to pay return shipping and a restocking fee. And of course, it wasn't being sold on Amazon, probably for this reason. Noble would not be able to charge a restocking fee through Amazon, would lose some margin to Amazon, and be at the mercy of Amazon's policies.
> 
> They do look nice though! I really wanted to try the older Falcon 2 tbh - they probably can hold their own against the MT. Falcon 2 wasn't sold on Amazon either so I skipped over Falcon altogether. Had I not liked Falcon 2, I would have pretty much dumped $30 to return (return shipping + restocking fee), which would be 1/5 of the total value of the Falcon 2. Just wasn't worth the risks to me.


I’d have to agree the Falcon Pro’s are definitely a step ahead in sound quality to any of the other TWS’s I’ve tried.  They play well with pretty much most music, have great bass when called for and nice separation and details.  They also take EQ very well through their app with an 10 way EQ with losing details or becoming muddy. The Falcon Pro is the first TWS I’m willing to use, still far from my 64 Audio customs or an Odin or Mest but definitely seems more equivalent to a $200 plus wired IEM, since it is a hybrid 3 way 3 driver that has cohesive crossovers.


----------



## Ukedone

LordToneeus said:


> Received my Fiil T1 Pro's yesterday from AliExpress (which was hella fast considering I ordered them March 8).  I really dig the sound, ever so much more than the Earfun Free Pro.  I knew going in that to unlock all the goodies of this set I'd need the Chinese app.  What I didn't know was 1) that I couldn't do ANYTHING save play/pause without the app; and 2) that the app is sort of a pain in the ass to get on iOS.
> 
> I could wait and hope Fiil update the global app, but I think these are going on the auction block.  I like them quite a bit: they sound great, fit great, wireless charging, etc., but I'd rather recoup some of the $70, as I'm more likely to keep using the Jabra 75t's as my daily driver.


Find an old android phone, install the Chinese app in it, configure the app to suit your needs, and get rid of phone. The buds will keep the advanced settings even when using them with IOS (I did that with the FIIL Lite.


----------



## vladzakhar

+1 for Falcons Pro. I extensively enjoying my pair for over a month now. Agree with everything mentioned above. No other TWS can give me this pleasure to enjoying my music. Today I am getting the Audeze's Euclid wired IEMs. I know, it's suppose to be no compression between them and Falcons Pros, but still very curious how close the Falcons can get to Audeze's sound wise.


----------



## clerkpalmer

What’s up with the Kef? Back ordered everywhere? Strange.  Anyone know a place that actually has them?


----------



## tiagopinto

bladefd said:


> For $330, I would hope it has all that and more!
> 
> $330 is probably too much for the average consumer (like yours truly) though unfortunately. I looked at them a few months back, but as soon as I saw the price tag, I knew I wouldn't be buying them. Another thing that pushed me away was having to pay return shipping and a restocking fee. And of course, it wasn't being sold on Amazon, probably for this reason. Noble would not be able to charge a restocking fee through Amazon, would lose some margin to Amazon, and be at the mercy of Amazon's policies.
> 
> They do look nice though! I really wanted to try the older Falcon 2 tbh - they probably can hold their own against the MT. Falcon 2 wasn't sold on Amazon either so I skipped over Falcon altogether. Had I not liked Falcon 2, I would have pretty much dumped $30 to return (return shipping + restocking fee), which would be 1/5 of the total value of the Falcon 2. Just wasn't worth the risks to me.



Yup, too much dough for these parts too. They do look good. They also miss ANC at this price point, right?


----------



## clerkpalmer

tiagopinto said:


> Yup, too much dough for these parts too. They do look good. They also miss ANC at this price point, right?


Yes and fit is iffy. For as good as they sound (and they do sound good) I have no idea how people get them to stay in their ears. The nozzle is super long. That said I don’t hear much complaining so I must be in the minority.


----------



## pkcpga

tiagopinto said:


> Yup, too much dough for these parts too. They do look good. They also miss ANC at this price point, right?


Yeah, no ANC, for myself that’s a huge plus, isolate well like a regular iem instead.  Personally can’t stand the added hiss or hum ANC always has, even Sony and Bose.


----------



## pkcpga

clerkpalmer said:


> Yes and fit is iffy. For as good as they sound (and they do sound good) I have no idea how people get them to stay in their ears. The nozzle is super long. That said I don’t hear much complaining so I must be in the minority.


I switched to Dekoni mercury foam ear tips, size small, since they sit so deep.  Originally tips did not stay in as well for myself also.  They do sit deeper then many regular universal fit IEMs but not nearly as deep as custom.


----------



## Windmolinos

chinmie said:


> for my slightly large ears, which usually use L size tips, the Vivo would be a bit loose, so the overall sound would be a bit thin because the reduced bass. but I'm using it with earbud foams, and the subbass can reach deep with it.
> 
> the overall feel is closer to using IEMs: separation is good, mids and treble are clear, bass is emphasized on the subbass than the midbass. i have to make adjustments to the case so it can fit and still charge with foams attached.
> 
> if you're using Vivo phones, you would have extra access to EQ and sound preset adjustments.


Hey, I followed your advice and I have the VIVO with the HIGI foams. Looks great and in my case I'm not having problems with the case... it closes fine


----------



## tiagopinto

pkcpga said:


> Yeah, no ANC, for myself that’s a huge plus, isolate well like a regular iem instead.  Personally can’t stand the added hiss or hum ANC always has, even Sony and Bose.



I totally understand it may slightly alter sound quality and potentially produce hiss when idle. It's just a convenience I have on my full size cans and which I’d like to have on my MT’s in case there are constant annoying noises around. The slight sound shift and or minor hiss I guess comes with the technology of having mics pointed outwards and trying to “out-phase” those external sounds. And I honestly think that at 330$ it’s a must nowadays. Even available at lower price points. You use it if you need it.


----------



## cresny

erockg said:


> Completely agree.  I returned mine because of the little issues, but cannot wait for the re-release supposedly mid-April.  Gemini were by far one of my all-time favorite TWS.


Just got word from support that firmware will be released April 6.  Happens to be when I'm scheduled for my covid shot. Hope the firmware is equally effective!


----------



## pkcpga

tiagopinto said:


> I totally understand it may slightly alter sound quality and potentially produce hiss when idle. It's just a convenience I have on my full size cans and which I’d like to have on my MT’s in case there are constant annoying noises around. The slight sound shift and or minor hiss I guess comes with the technology of having mics pointed outwards and trying to “out-phase” those external sounds. And I honestly think that at 330$ it’s a must nowadays. Even available at lower price points. You use it if you need it.


I think in the future with TWS this will be a divide, audio brands will go for purist sound as much as possible and mainstream/sport ones will be feature packed.  Based on the audio brands releases, most from more audiophile brands seem to be without ANC.  I think dealing with a hybrid drivers with crossovers and multi drivers then adding ANC to that might ruin the crossovers wanted when ANC mode or pure audio mode is on.  And these brands feel customers they are attracting are purely for sound over gizmos.


----------



## clerkpalmer

cresny said:


> Just got word from support that firmware will be released April 6.  Happens to be when I'm scheduled for my covid shot. Hope the firmware is equally effective!


My Gemini have remained largely stable for the past month even wo any firmware updates. The gremlins have not appeared. The sound is really as good as it gets and the anc is surprisingly good. I’m glad I stuck with them.


----------



## Canabuc

clerkpalmer said:


> My Gemini have remained largely stable for the past month even wo any firmware updates. The gremlins have not appeared. The sound is really as good as it gets and the anc is surprisingly good. I’m glad I stuck with them.


I came close to buying from a Canadian retailer but then they stopped selling. Think all stock was pulled until re release


----------



## vladzakhar

I don't hear any outside noises when music is playing on Falcons. The isolation is better when TWS with ANC on.


----------



## cresny

pkcpga said:


> Yeah, no ANC, for myself that’s a huge plus, isolate well like a regular iem instead.  Personally can’t stand the added hiss or hum ANC always has, even Sony and Bose.


I have both the Sonys and the (soon to be re-released) Devialets. I find the Geminis easily superior with a much more natural sound. The flip side of the ANC tech is transparency mode. With the Sonys it sounds like mic gain is raised with the accompanying hiss. The Geminis have none of that, just natural outside sound. The music sound of the Geminis is exactly the same with both ANC and transparency: slightly boosted bass and lots of detail. Oddly, it sounds better than with those things off. And wind noise handling with ANC on is excellent as well. Perhaps it's the mic quality (evident in the also far superior phone voice quality) or maybe the tech itself, but Sonys will be playing catch up when they release the XM4. As for Bose, I can't comment on their TWS, but musically I know what you mean going by their wired models.


----------



## tinyman392

pkcpga said:


> I think in the future with TWS this will be a divide, audio brands will go for purist sound as much as possible and mainstream/sport ones will be feature packed.  Based on the audio brands releases, most from more audiophile brands seem to be without ANC.  I think dealing with a hybrid drivers with crossovers and multi drivers then adding ANC to that might ruin the crossovers wanted when ANC mode or pure audio mode is on.  And these brands feel customers they are attracting are purely for sound over gizmos.


You'd need to have a BT radio, signal processor of some sort, DAC, and amp all running prior to the crossover anyways...  The ANC and other DSP would be done at the signal processing step.  Adding these features would require a better processor along with the R&D for said features.


----------



## Luke Skywalker

Caipirina said:


> Some interesting food for thought ... I see that I could get the Oppo Enco W31 here ... so, maybe in a few months they have the Enco X
> I had been looking at the Kefs for a bit ... also interesting ... never got around to try the Libratones.
> 
> Has there been any word if / when XM4 might be happening? I remember that one rumor / leak design pic ...
> ...


I love my KEFs.  I listen to them for at least 5 or 6 hours a day


----------



## Luke Skywalker

clerkpalmer said:


> What’s up with the Kef? Back ordered everywhere? Strange.  Anyone know a place that actually has them?


Luckily I ordered them immediately from the KEF website.  Came in a few days...  They crush everything else I've listened to and even rival my Lola's for some kinds of music


----------



## chinmie

Windmolinos said:


> Hey, I followed your advice and I have the VIVO with the HIGI foams. Looks great and in my case I'm not having problems with the case... it closes fine



does it charge the earpieces while on the case with foams on? on mine (before i mod it) the case can can close with the foams, but apparently the didn't charge. if you unit is fine without adjustment, great for you


----------



## Caipirina

Luke Skywalker said:


> I love my KEFs.  I listen to them for at least 5 or 6 hours a day


Need to put on wishlist for a while. Probably tricky to come by / unreliable (and cost prohibitive) shipping to my island ...


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

clerkpalmer said:


> Yes and fit is iffy. For as good as they sound (and they do sound good) I have no idea how people get them to stay in their ears. The nozzle is super long. That said I don’t hear much complaining so I must be in the minority.


The fit used to be iffy for me as well, but something must have clicked for me.

They definitely don't fit like standard TWS in my ears in the sense that they "fill" the outer ear. Really, the only two points of contact I focus on when inserting these are the concave edge above the stem and the tip itself; as long as I pay attention to those two, the rest falls into place.

Plenty secure, too, but it is weird thinking these should go deeper based on the nozzle shape. Really, they're no deeper than most of the other pairs.


----------



## turbobb (Mar 30, 2021)

Dany1 said:


> A friend of mine has recently bought the Fiil CC2, but he's having a serious fit issue with it. He has big ears and these keep falling out of his ears. He has tried fitting them through all possible angles but no luck. If anyone here could tell any possible solution for this it'd be of great help and i'll pass it on to him.


I had a similar issue with my SoundPeats TrueAir 2 and @jant71 suggestion was great.



jant71 said:


> Ear bud foams. Something decent like Hiegi.


I hadn't even thought about this but instead was looking for the silicon style covers but they didn't work well as the hook types need to be removed for charging and the other styles either block the bassport or were too thin. I went with cheap ones instead ($2.58 for 24 - lol should last me quite a while) and they work a treat in keeping the TA2 in my ears as well as aligning them for better sound quality. Best of all, they fit into the case (just need to be a little mindful of alignment).


----------



## erockg

cresny said:


> Just got word from support that firmware will be released April 6.  Happens to be when I'm scheduled for my covid shot. Hope the firmware is equally effective!


You're a lucky man on all fronts.  Maybe that'll be when they re-launch the buds for purchase... sadly, I'm not eligible for my shots until 4/15 here in CA.


----------



## CocaCola15

pkcpga said:


> I think in the future with TWS this will be a divide, audio brands will go for purist sound as much as possible and mainstream/sport ones will be feature packed.  Based on the audio brands releases, most from more audiophile brands seem to be without ANC.  I think dealing with a hybrid drivers with crossovers and multi drivers then adding ANC to that might ruin the crossovers wanted when ANC mode or pure audio mode is on.  And these brands feel customers they are attracting are purely for sound over gizmos.


That’s probably the case with the Status Between Pro, triple driver hybrids, no ANC. They go on sale in April, grabbed a pair on Indiegogo. Fantastic balanced sound, IMHO. Reviewers seem to agree so far.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

CocaCola15 said:


> That’s probably the case with the Status Between Pro, triple driver hybrids, no ANC. They go on sale in April, grabbed a pair on Indiegogo. Fantastic balanced sound, IMHO. Reviewers seem to agree so far.


Waiting on mine as well, but looks from the last update like everything is still on schedule. Great news!

Can't say the same for the Edifier TWS1 Pro, though. Haven't gotten an update on those in 10 days. At this point, the odds that they're sitting on the Ever Given are just too high.

Sadly, the NFP still have that intermittent artifacting on aptX Adaptive issue, but it's so weird how intermittent the issue is and at least it's nowhere near as severe here. Using Developer Options to revert to aptX instead of Adaptive takes care of the issue entirely. My new theory is that it's not very good at handling the crowded 2.4 GHz space and is pretty prone to distortion as a result. Originally, I thought there were too many background apps, but I can still reproduce the problem when all background apps except for the music player itself is running.

Hoping an update for the OnePlus 8T comes out soon and addresses that, but for now, seems like aptX Adaptive came out about as half-baked as LDAC did.


----------



## dj24

@ miserybeforethemusic:

Correct me if I'm wrong but do I Vaguely remember you saying that the defean foam tips did not fit your EV75t or the case for charging? Am I way off?  I wanted to make sure before I ordered these..


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

dj24 said:


> @ miserybeforethemusic:
> 
> Correct me if I'm wrong but do I Vaguely remember you saying that the defean foam tips did not fit your EV75t or the case for charging? Am I way off?  I wanted to make sure before I ordered these..


I haven't tried the Defean tips myself, but have heard good things about them otherwise. I had tried the Dekoni, which were a no-go, but they also didn't have a segmented core like the Defean. You might be okay with those.


----------



## CocaCola15

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Waiting on mine as well, but looks from the last update like everything is still on schedule. Great news!
> 
> Can't say the same for the Edifier TWS1 Pro, though. Haven't gotten an update on those in 10 days. At this point, the odds that they're sitting on the Ever Given are just too high.
> 
> ...


I think you will like the Between Pro.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

CocaCola15 said:


> I think you will like the Between Pro.


I hope so. Would be nice to have a more affordable triple-driver TWS that I could recommend to people. I only know a handful of people outside of the community that wouldn't laugh me out of the room if I recommended the NFP to them, even if that was after an audition.

Especially when you back-to-back them against, say, the Technics AZ70. Going back and forth between the two reminds you that consumer TWS tuning has a long way to go on taming their upper midrange; it's considerably more prone to "tizz" on busy passages than the Noble. Good news is there's moments of warmth on the Technics that still manage to surprise me. I think you're about 70% there, probably even closer depending on what genres you prefer. The Noble are just very unfairly advantaged in reproducing timbre very naturally and I'm a sucker for that. Rumor has it the Nuarl are also very good at this, so those could be a viable and cheaper alternative for timbre fanatics. 

If I had to dock the NFP points, I'd probably give it to their midrange representation. Due to the overall V-shaped tonality, vocals can sometimes get just a little further in the background than I'd like, but never are they completely lost. Keep in mind this is really relative to IEMs and not so much to other TWS. They're still either near the top or at the top of the TWS pile, from what my ears have experienced. If the Grado, Hifiman, or upcoming B&W are anywhere close, you're getting your money's worth.


----------



## turbobb (Mar 31, 2021)

XmarX said:


> Was looking for a budget bluetooth earbud and found Jays T Four.
> My budget is $30-40 and I would be using it for phone calls, podcasts, netflix and may be a little gaming (PC gaming).
> 
> So, is it good?


FYI that this thread is dedicated to true wireless (TWS) so sticking with that (since I don't have experience with any of Jays' products), I've been looking at low latency TWS that I can use with video editing (especially for matching multi-cam footage and the audio) and I picked up this set since it was so cheap:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B08LV477NK/

It's likely the best $16 I've spent on any TWS. The low latency function (four taps on right bud confirmed by 2 beeps) does improve the audio/video sync which I think might be crucial for you wrt gaming/videos. The sound quality is also quite good even over SBC (it does feature AAC as well but Win10 doesn't support it) with elevated bass and mids but slightly rolled off treble - the major caveat though is if you can get the included buds to seal well - I couldn't but ended up using Spinfit tips which worked well while still fitting in the case. The only knock is probably the mics - while serviceable they're not the greatest and makes one sound a little muffled, sorta like being underwater.

Not sure if they're available to you locally but I can highly recommend these for your purposes provided you're not hung up on extreme detail retrieval and will be using it heavily for calls.

Some pics (it's the white one) to show how compact they are relative to some other TWS as well as direct comparison w/the EA75t.


----------



## wwhypebeast

Recently bought a Null Audio cable for my UERM. The battery life is impressive. I go about 2h/day for 10 days without a charge. Meanwhile the Mee Audio cable for my MMCX IEM does not last 6h. Apple is a pain for non-wireless. The Airpods Pro will be my go-to for commuting even though sound quality is very subpar


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

Big news for the Chi-Fi nerds out there: AliExpress just started their anniversary sale. It's not quite as good as the 11.11 sales usually are, but HiBy's official storefront is participating. Combine this with a $20 vendor coupon and you've got yourself a nice price of (potentially) hi-res streaming-capable buds:


https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001802592180.html

Was going to place an order on one of their DAPs, but man are they selling quick. Might want to jump on this one.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

@Canabuc need a backup pair?




https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001424889026.html


----------



## Canabuc

miserybeforethemusic said:


> @Canabuc need a backup pair?
> 
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001424889026.html


Nope but you should get a pair!


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

Canabuc said:


> Nope but you should get a pair!


Have to receive the first pair I ordered before I'm comfortable letting AE hold onto more of my money. No TWS1 Pro? No new orders.


----------



## Canabuc

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Big news for the Chi-Fi nerds out there: AliExpress just started their anniversary sale. It's not quite as good as the 11.11 sales usually are, but HiBy's official storefront is participating. Combine this with a $20 vendor coupon and you've got yourself a nice price of (potentially) hi-res streaming-capable buds:
> 
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001802592180.html
> ...


Did Google search on these found an online site selling for 119.thiugh with shipping goes to 154.

Think I will pass. No ambient or ANC.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

Canabuc said:


> Did Google search on these found an online site selling for 119.thiugh with shipping goes to 154.
> 
> Think I will pass. No ambient or ANC.


I think they only start to make sense if you're already in the HiBy ecosystem due to the UAT implementation. Pretty sure there was at least one person in this thread who was looking for a small DAP/TWS combo; the WH3 and R2/R3 Pro would fit the bill really, really well. The DAPs having HiBy link is an added bonus.


----------



## erockg

These Moondrop Blessing 2’s are smacking down the Starfields right now.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

erockg said:


> These Moondrop Blessing 2’s are smacking down the Starfields right now.


Careful with the Moondrop train. They just keep coming out with new stuff...


----------



## erockg

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Careful with the Moondrop train. They just keep coming out with new stuff...


Don't be the Devil, Dude.  New Smith/Kotzen album with the Blessing 2s = getting me through a crazy day.  So clean.  Bass punchy, no mud.  Wide soundstage.  Heaven.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

erockg said:


> Don't be the Devil, Dude.  New Smith/Kotzen album with the Blessing 2s = getting me through a crazy day.  So clean.  Bass punchy, no mud.  Wide soundstage.  Heaven.


I've had my eye on the Blessing 2 before; think it's a good entry point for Moondrop. Heard really good things about the A8, but remember that being an all-BA unit.

No enabling, just remembering why I had to bail from the Chi-Fi wagon...seems like something newer and better is always around the corner. Think I still have my ZS7 lying around here somewhere, come to think of it.


----------



## erockg

miserybeforethemusic said:


> I've had my eye on the Blessing 2 before; think it's a good entry point for Moondrop. Heard really good things about the A8, but remember that being an all-BA unit.
> 
> No enabling, just remembering why I had to bail from the Chi-Fi wagon...seems like something newer and better is always around the corner. Think I still have my ZS7 lying around here somewhere, come to think of it.


Definitely a very rare Chi-fi purchase for me.


----------



## tinyman392

erockg said:


> These Moondrop Blessing 2’s are smacking down the Starfields right now.


I really want to get a Blessing 2 (non-dusk) in the blue wood simply because of how beautiful it looks


----------



## erockg

tinyman392 said:


> I really want to get a Blessing 2 (non-dusk) in the blue wood simply because of how beautiful it looks


I'm pretty surprised at how well built they are.  I wanted the wood too, but opted to save a few bucks.  Amazon had a 10% off coupon


----------



## tinyman392

erockg said:


> I'm pretty surprised at how well built they are.  I wanted the wood too, but opted to save a few bucks.  Amazon had a 10% off coupon


10% off coupon is nice.  Looks like that coupon is gone   I'm a sucker for beautiful wood


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

erockg said:


> I'm pretty surprised at how well built they are.  I wanted the wood too, but opted to save a few bucks.  Amazon had a 10% off coupon


Even the Kanas Pro are built like absolute metallic tanks. They don't stay in worth a damn, but they're definitely tanks. Might have to dig them back up and listen to them for a little bit, but man if they aren't silky smooth with the right tips.

Replacement MTs are supposed to arrive tomorrow. Here's to hoping the hinges and charging contacts all decide to play nicely.


----------



## SilverEars (Mar 31, 2021)

UE Fits EQ isn't working the app?  I can't select a preset or use customization.  Anybody know why?  It says 'scanning.'

Edit: I reinstalled the app, and it's working now.


----------



## bladefd

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Even the Kanas Pro are built like absolute metallic tanks. They don't stay in worth a damn, but they're definitely tanks. Might have to dig them back up and listen to them for a little bit, but man if they aren't silky smooth with the right tips.
> 
> *Replacement MTs are supposed to arrive tomorrow. Here's to hoping the hinges and charging contacts all decide to play nicely.*


I'm curious too. I have the same issue with charging contacts on the right bud. Not sure if it's worth doing an RMA if most of them have the same issue.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

SilverEars said:


> UE Fits EQ isn't working the app?  I can't select a preset or use customization.  Anybody know why?  It says 'scanning.'
> 
> Edit: I reinstalled the app, and it's working now.


Sometimes it's an app issue, but I've seen that happen when only one bud is connected to the phone (aka the other is in the case and the lid is closed). Glad you got it figured out.


bladefd said:


> I'm curious too. I have the same issue with charging contacts on the right bud. Not sure if it's worth doing an RMA if most of them have the same issue.


First pair didn't have issues with the contacts, at least. Just that weird volume thing. Otherwise I loved them for the price. These Falcon Pros kinda just take that signature and clean it up, adding in a whole bunch of resolution. Both are insanely comfortable in my ears. Good options in either price category.

I'd say RMA if you can. Doesn't seem like they have that high a bar for defects before a replacement is warranted. I'm not condoning abuse of the RMA process, though. Just don't live with the issue, even if it seems relatively small. At the very least, it feeds back into the company metrics and hopefully gets you better-built stuff the next time.


----------



## bladefd

miserybeforethemusic said:


> First pair didn't have issues with the contacts, at least. Just that weird volume thing. Otherwise I loved them for the price. These Falcon Pros kinda just take that signature and clean it up, adding in a whole bunch of resolution. Both are insanely comfortable in my ears. Good options in either price category.
> 
> I'd say RMA if you can. Doesn't seem like they have that high a bar for defects before a replacement is warranted. I'm not condoning abuse of the RMA process, though. Just don't live with the issue, even if it seems relatively small. At the very least, it feeds back into the company metrics and hopefully gets you better-built stuff the next time.


Volume drops for me 50% too as soon as music begins playing after connecting. It might be something intentional rather than a bug, but I don't know. I don't recall it always happening until a month ago. I might ask their customer support - just seems odd. It's not a big deal because I just raise the volume back up a couple ticks and it's solved until next time I reconnect.

The charging issue is why I would RMA though. I often have to lift the bud up and re-drop until the red light is stable blinking. It's fine like 75% of the time on the first drop, but 25% of the time I have to jiggle it or re-drop a 2nd time. It's definitely a quality assurance issue with the case itself.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

bladefd said:


> Volume drops for me 50% too as soon as music begins playing after connecting. It might be something intentional rather than a bug, but I don't know. I don't recall it always happening until a month ago. I might ask their customer support - just seems odd. It's not a big deal because I just raise the volume back up a couple ticks and it's solved until next time I reconnect.
> 
> The charging issue is why I would RMA though. I often have to lift the bud up and re-drop until the red light is stable blinking. It's fine like 75% of the time on the first drop, but 25% of the time I have to jiggle it or re-drop a 2nd time. It's definitely a quality assurance issue with the case itself.


If it's physical construction, I'd assume that warrants RMA. Especially when it comes to something that plays into battery maintenance.

Mine wasn't the 50% issue. Volume just jumped all over the place if I pulled a second bud out while music was playing or if I tried to change volume by phone instead of by buds. I think there was an issue with the buds not talking to each other, personally, but we'll see what happens tomorrow. For all I know, could just be my phone being a royal pain.


----------



## SilverEars (Mar 31, 2021)

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Sometimes it's an app issue, but I've seen that happen when only one bud is connected to the phone (aka the other is in the case and the lid is closed). Glad you got it figured out.


I think it has to do with requiring 'location' info from the phone.  I don't like to turn that on because it drains battery.  More and more apps are requiring it be on to function normally.

My initial impression isn't great.  Can't say I'm impressed.

First of all, I think the custom fit thing is a gimmick.  I don't notice much of a difference in fit from it's original shape to after the 'molding.'

As far as sound, I didn't like the stock UE custom EQ.  It sounded upper-mids emphasized, and upper-mids wasn't so clean.  It didn't sound harsh or anything, but just not all that clean of a response.  Didn't notice anything impressive with imaging or soundstage, so probably not so great there.

I don't know why it doesn't have a non-EQ stock setting?  Is there a way to turn off EQ?  Just shut it off completely?  I'm curious how it is with EQ off.

EQ software is quite good.  It feels like parametric.

I use USB Audio Player Pro so I do not need UE app for EQ.  I EQ on UAPP.  The problem is, when I have UAPP on bit-perfect-mode with EQ applied with the UE app, the sound distorts.  I just want a setting to turn off the EQ on UE.


----------



## tinyman392

SilverEars said:


> I think it has to do with requiring 'location' info from the phone.  I don't like to turn that on because it drains battery.  More and more apps are requiring it be on to function normally.
> 
> My initial impression isn't great.  Can't say I'm impressed.
> 
> ...


If you create a new EQ, it defaults to “flat.”  The question is we don’t know if the UE EQ is actually the default non-DSP setup or if the “flat” is the non-DSP setup.  In other words, is the UE EQ done by the default driver tuning or added in after the fact using DSP.  Or maybe neither of those are actually the non-DSP setup and neither of them are your non-DSP setup.  I really only question the UE EQ as if you look at the EQ it does show you exactly what it’s EQ looks like, a bump in the bass and a drop in the treble creating a small emphasis on the upper midrange and adding a slight sweetness to the sound as a whole.


----------



## Canabuc

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Even the Kanas Pro are built like absolute metallic tanks. They don't stay in worth a damn, but they're definitely tanks. Might have to dig them back up and listen to them for a little bit, but man if they aren't silky smooth with the right tips.
> 
> Replacement MTs are supposed to arrive tomorrow. Here's to hoping the hinges and charging contacts all decide to play nicely.


Cambridge audio is offering for me to return mine and ship out a new pair.
Alternatively I could just return them to Amazon but might get a pair from same manufacturing batch.
Maybe will just return them altogether and buy them or ometui g better down the road. I don't like having to always be fixing buggy tech.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

SilverEars said:


> I think it has to do with requiring 'location' info from the phone.  I don't like to turn that on because it drains battery.  More and more apps are requiring it be on to function normally.
> 
> My initial impression isn't great.  Can't say I'm impressed.
> 
> ...


Stock EQ is wonky. Not sure what's going on with your bit-perfect issue, but maybe dropping the preamp a bit will help?


Canabuc said:


> Cambridge audio is offering for me to return mine and ship out a new pair.
> Alternatively I could just return them to Amazon but might get a pair from same manufacturing batch.
> Maybe will just return them altogether and buy them or ometui g better down the road. I don't like having to always be fixing buggy tech.


I'd let them do a swap. I understand if you don't want to, though.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

@SilverEars I'll add this with the UEs because it was recommended to me as well: give em a chance. I didn't really understand how these made sense until I had made it through a couple albums and realized how much time had really passed. It's one of those sound signatures that isn't necessarily that interesting at first listen, but it grows on you. Reminds me, in a sense, of how my Shure SE530 were equal parts frustrating and rewarding in that regard.

As to whether the "fit" part of it does anything, I can only anecdotally say that there were definite differences between my first and second set of molds. If you're in doubt at all about fit, I'd suggest getting the L2 tips. Made a world of difference for my right ear, as did doing the mold with a slightly open jaw and pushing in slightly.


----------



## SemiAudiophile

erockg said:


> These Moondrop Blessing 2’s are smacking down the Starfields right now.






I've been enjoying the Dusk, although they haven't been getting as much playing time since I just picked up the P1 as well. 😅

All 3 of them ZAX, Dusk, and P1 are great IEMs. They just present music differently. 

Still waiting on the UTWS3 to ship... hopefully soon!


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

SemiAudiophile said:


> I've been enjoying the Dusk, although they haven't been getting as much playing time since I just picked up the P1 as well. 😅
> 
> All 3 of them ZAX, Dusk, and P1 are great IEMs. They just present music differently.
> 
> Still waiting on the UTWS3 to ship... hopefully soon!


The Pinnacle P1, I presume? Tin HiFi made that confusing for everybody else


----------



## SemiAudiophile

miserybeforethemusic said:


> The Pinnacle P1, I presume? Tin HiFi made that confusing for everybody else


No the Tin HiFi P1's. I've been missing the planar sound


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

SemiAudiophile said:


> No the Tin HiFi P1's. I've been missing the planar sound


Been curious about those. What's the tuning like relative to the T2 Pro?


Club Pro+ users, looks like we've got another update. We'll see what this brings


----------



## SemiAudiophile

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Been curious about those. What's the tuning like relative to the T2 Pro?


Never heard the T2's but they sound pretty neutral. Upper mids and treble are tuned perfectly where it has great detail with no harshness at all. Good for long relaxing sessions. They are a bit bass light and I often find myself turning on the bass boost to compensate and give it overall more body and weight to the sound. They are definitely special and keepers for sure. 👍


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

SemiAudiophile said:


> Never heard the T2's but they sound pretty neutral. Upper mids and treble are tuned perfectly where it has great detail with no harshness at all. Good for long relaxing sessions. They are a bit bass light and I often find myself turning on the bass boost to compensate and give it overall more body and weight to the sound. They are definitely special and keepers for sure. 👍


Wondering if I should try snagging one during the 11-year sale. Looks like I could snag them for about $135 right now on AE. Good enough or pass?


----------



## SemiAudiophile

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Wondering if I should try snagging one during the 11-year sale. Looks like I could snag them for about $135 right now on AE. Good enough or pass?


----------



## tinyman392 (Apr 1, 2021)

miserybeforethemusic said:


> @SilverEars I'll add this with the UEs because it was recommended to me as well: give em a chance. I didn't really understand how these made sense until I had made it through a couple albums and realized how much time had really passed. It's one of those sound signatures that isn't necessarily that interesting at first listen, but it grows on you. Reminds me, in a sense, of how my Shure SE530 were equal parts frustrating and rewarding in that regard.
> 
> As to whether the "fit" part of it does anything, I can only anecdotally say that there were definite differences between my first and second set of molds. If you're in doubt at all about fit, I'd suggest getting the L2 tips. Made a world of difference for my right ear, as did doing the mold with a slightly open jaw and pushing in slightly.


I remember when I first got the Euclid, they really didn’t wow me in any way; and to be honest, besides the sound stage and separation, they didn’t.  The thing was, they did very little wrong to my ears which took a little while more me to figure out.  Normally when a headphone stands out, it does something spectacular either spectacularly good or spectacularly poor.  This always tends to affect other parts of the audio spectrum as well (there trends to be a trade off somewhere else).  The Euclid didn’t do any of that.

The UE really doesn’t stick out, but isn’t perfect either.  It tries to be a jack of all trades type of character IMO.  It’s not a bad thing, but it also means it likely won’t stand out in any great way.

Regarding fit, I remember way back when Rin Choi would do his measurements and test input impedance (using resistors) to see how a headphone would react to  tip insertion depth and its effect on the sound of the IEM.  It almost always would affect the way the IEM sounded creating the entire idea that some IEMs would sound better with a shallow insertion while others required you to really get that tip deep in the ol’ noggin.  I’d say that the ”fit” of an IEM would have similar influence as the actual head placement of a full-sized headphone (which Innerfidelity did an article on; even Head-Fi has made comments on this as well); both have measurable effects.  With IEMs tip material, shape, etc. all play a role in how it sounds like how pad shape, material, etc. all play a role for full-sized.  Fit definitely plays a huge role in sound IMO.  Even over time the rigidity of both tips and pads will change too; this could lead to changes in sound.  In some cases even completely to the point where they no longer seal properly (Etymotic triple-flanges need to be replaced like every few months).


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

SemiAudiophile said:


>


Fine, but after this...and the Falcon 1...and the Status...and the Edifier, I'm done for the month!


----------



## tinyman392

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Fine, but after this...and the Falcon 1...and the Status...and the Edifier, I'm done for the month!


That’s fine, the month ends today anyways, you have a whole new month ahead of you for more headphones


----------



## Canabuc

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Stock EQ is wonky. Not sure what's going on with your bit-perfect issue, but maybe dropping the preamp a bit will help?
> 
> I'd let them do a swap. I understand if you don't want to, though.


Reluctant to. Seems like you had to do 2 swaps..might as well just reorder from Amazon. Or wait a month when maybe the manufacturing bugs are all fixed.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

Canabuc said:


> Reluctant to. Seems like you had to do 2 swaps..might as well just reorder from Amazon. Or wait a month when maybe the manufacturing bugs are all fixed.


Only 1 swap so far. The other RMA was for the Nobles. Up to you, though. Seems the Huawei really stole the show for you anyway.

Spending the evening with the JBLs post-update. Everything's smooth and stable. Perhaps the Hearthrough mode works a little better? ANC is still pretty anemic, but it did a good enough job of blocking out an airplane flying overhead during my evening walk.

Having a blast listening to Shpongle's debut album. Lots of fun spatial cues on _And the Day Turned to Night_. The JBLs can image pretty smoothly across the L/C/R planes; even gives a little bit of height info. That rumbling sub-bass throughout the track really helps add texture, too.

They're not the most comfortable long-term, though. I can feel the weight after about 45 minutes on the inside of my ears. Maybe I'll mess around with tips again tomorrow to see if that helps. Had the Final Mediums on this evening.


----------



## Bartig

turbobb said:


> FYI that this thread is dedicated to true wireless (TWS) so sticking with that (since I don't have experience with any of Jays' products), I've been looking at low latency TWS that I can use with video editing (especially for matching multi-cam footage and the audio) and I picked up this set since it was so cheap:
> https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B08LV477NK/
> 
> It's likely the best $16 I've spent on any TWS. The low latency function (four taps on right bud confirmed by 2 beeps) does improve the audio/video sync which I think might be crucial for you wrt gaming/videos. The sound quality is also quite good even over SBC (it does feature AAC as well but Win10 doesn't support it) with elevated bass and mids but slightly rolled off treble - the major caveat though is if you can get the included buds to seal well - I couldn't but ended up using Spinfit tips which worked well while still fitting in the case. The only knock is probably the mics - while serviceable they're not the greatest and makes one sound a little muffled, sorta like being underwater.
> ...


Ha! Those are the Tiso i5's in another package. Quite a fun thing yes, and with a fun bassy sound as well, right?

The same model is being sold as the 'Rolfstone Nova' from a 'Dutch' manufacturer, for 100 dollars...


----------



## Dobrescu George

I hope my review take on the Pamu Slide Mini helps those who need a really affordable TWS IEM with a natural singature  

https://www.audiophile-heaven.com/2021/04/pamu-slide-mini-this-is-natural.html


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

New release from Emotiva. Wonder what BT codecs it supports?


----------



## TK33

miserybeforethemusic said:


> New release from Emotiva. Wonder what BT codecs it supports?



If they were going to use floppy disks, I would've preferred the 5 1/4" version.  That would really be an engineering success if you could fit 17 minutes on there.  Thanks for sharing this.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

TK33 said:


> If they were going to use floppy disks, I would've preferred the 5 1/4" version.  That would really be an engineering success if you could fit 17 minutes on there.  Thanks for sharing this.


I guess Zip disks were too modern. Way too many (not) fond memories of bent 5-1/4" floppy disks, all seemingly on install disk 38 out of 39.


----------



## tinyman392

miserybeforethemusic said:


> New release from Emotiva. Wonder what BT codecs it supports?



I'm really excited for this!  I hope they're able to put in a 20 or so floppy changer system.  It'd be great to be able to just shove them all in there and listen to an album uninterrupted!


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

tinyman392 said:


> I'm really excited for this!  I hope they're able to put in a 20 or so floppy changer system.  It'd be great to be able to just shove them all in there and listen to an album uninterrupted!


Right? Don't want to give away spoilers, but I thought that's what the second reveal was going to be!

In other news, the MTs showed up...and seems they've brought a friend. Did the cosmic universe chose to play the biggest April Fool's Day joke or is it just my lucky day?

It'll make sense soon.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

Here we go...I actually had to open the box to make sure I wasn't being punked. Then I had to open the box inside of that box. Then I had to open the charging case to be sure. Can someone pinch me?


There's a set of CX400BT in there...I thought UPS declared them damaged, though? The plot thickens...

Oh yeah, and My Morning Jacket just issued the 20th anniversary release of _At Dawn_. I'm in a parallel universe or something.

Also found this interesting. Looks like Cambridge has added to their packaging:


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

Here's some pictures of that new setup guide, for anybody interested:


----------



## tinyman392

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Here's some pictures of that new setup guide, for anybody interested:


Those directions don't seem any different than regular BT IEMs 😂 Congrats on your Senns as well.  May April bring you more bundles of TWS


----------



## Luke Skywalker

One slight negative to the KEFs, if you can even call it that.  I tried swapping the included tips for my favorite Acoustune AET08's.  They sounded amazing but the with the large size, the case didn't close at all.  I tried the mediums and they case came really close to closing but you could see a crack and they didn't consistently charge.  Thought about cutting a few millimeters off the end of the AET08 tip to see if that might help


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

tinyman392 said:


> Those directions don't seem any different than regular BT IEMs 😂 Congrats on your Senns as well.  May April bring you more bundles of TWS


I'm very confused as well. Looks like they wanted to do something quick, because that card is on the outside of the shrink-wrap.

I think this month just needs to bring me the rest of what I ordered and I'll be okay. No more or I'm going to drive the wife off into another one of _her_ buying sprees.


----------



## tinyman392

miserybeforethemusic said:


> I'm very confused as well. Looks like they wanted to do something quick, because that card is on the outside of the shrink-wrap.
> 
> I think this month just needs to bring me the rest of what I ordered and I'll be okay. No more or I'm going to drive the wife off into another one of _her_ buying sprees.


Yeah, it is odd.  I know a lot of BT headphones with apps want you to connect using the app rather than the regular way first (the V-Moda M-200 was the last headphone I had that wanted this).  Maybe they had a bunch of people trying to connect using the app instead of standard BT protocol?  IDK.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

tinyman392 said:


> Yeah, it is odd.  I know a lot of BT headphones with apps want you to connect using the app rather than the regular way first (the V-Moda M-200 was the last headphone I had that wanted this).  Maybe they had a bunch of people trying to connect using the app instead of standard BT protocol?  IDK.


Knowing what Apple has done to the general consumers' expectation bias, that wouldn't surprise me.

For the lurkers out there, if you want the thing where it auto-pairs when you open the lid, you need a pair that supports the feature. I know the JBL Club Pro+ and Pixel Buds 2 support it, but that's usually a "premium" feature.


----------



## tinyman392 (Apr 1, 2021)

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Knowing what Apple has done to the general consumers' expectation bias, that wouldn't surprise me.
> 
> For the lurkers out there, if you want the thing where it auto-pairs when you open the lid, you need a pair that supports the feature. I know the JBL Club Pro+ and Pixel Buds 2 support it, but that's usually a "premium" feature.



Apple really doesn't have an app either though.  Apple uses NFC and BT to just tell you the headphones is near  It is really nice the way it works.  Most TWS actually have the auto-power on and auto-power off feature.  It's not difficult to implement, use the charging as a trigger/switch.


----------



## CocaCola15

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Here we go...I actually had to open the box to make sure I wasn't being punked. Then I had to open the box inside of that box. Then I had to open the charging case to be sure. Can someone pinch me?
> 
> There's a set of CX400BT in there...I thought UPS declared them damaged, though? The plot thickens...
> 
> ...


I got the same thing with my new pair (returned the first). My guess is maybe buyers were not following their specific OOB connection process, so they added it after the fact in a way no one could miss. Seems the only logical thing.

I've had no issues with connectivity this time, updated the FW out of the box. Loving the sound actually, maybe a bit bass-heavy, but not in an offensive way. Hard to decide if I favor the Melomania 1+ or the Touch, but both are staying here.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

CocaCola15 said:


> I got the same thing with my new pair (returned the first). My guess is maybe buyers were not following their specific OOB connection process, so they added it after the fact in a way no one could miss. Seems the only logical thing.
> 
> I've had no issues with connectivity this time, updated the FW out of the box. Loving the sound actually, maybe a bit bass-heavy, but not in an offensive way. Hard to decide if I favor the Melomania 1+ or the Touch, but both are staying here.


I recommended both to a friend, recently. Had lent him the Soundcore Q30 and wasn't aware this was his first time not listening to some generic consumer pair of headphones; suffice to say he's now been bit by the bug, so figured the Q30 would be a fitting gift, but told him the MT/M1+ would be leagues better if he was willing to take the plunge (assuming the sound signatures are relatively close).

But here's an odd question...I thought the CX 400BT didn't have HearThrough, but I'm seeing it here on the app's intro stack. I know it didn't have ANC.

Also, do all updates usually take an hour? I'm looking at a 41-minute ETA for the completion of this one. Have no idea what the original firmware was; didn't check beforehand.


----------



## Canabuc

miserybeforethemusic said:


> I recommended both to a friend, recently. Had lent him the Soundcore Q30 and wasn't aware this was his first time not listening to some generic consumer pair of headphones; suffice to say he's now been bit by the bug, so figured the Q30 would be a fitting gift, but told him the MT/M1+ would be leagues better if he was willing to take the plunge (assuming the sound signatures are relatively close).
> 
> But here's an odd question...I thought the CX 400BT didn't have HearThrough, but I'm seeing it here on the app's intro stack. I know it didn't have ANC.
> 
> Also, do all updates usually take an hour? I'm looking at a 41-minute ETA for the completion of this one. Have no idea what the original firmware was; didn't check beforehand.


There was no hearthrough when I owned them.


----------



## Bartig (Apr 1, 2021)

miserybeforethemusic said:


> I recommended both to a friend, recently. Had lent him the Soundcore Q30 and wasn't aware this was his first time not listening to some generic consumer pair of headphones; suffice to say he's now been bit by the bug, so figured the Q30 would be a fitting gift, but told him the MT/M1+ would be leagues better if he was willing to take the plunge (assuming the sound signatures are relatively close).
> 
> But here's an odd question...I thought the CX 400BT didn't have HearThrough, but I'm seeing it here on the app's intro stack. I know it didn't have ANC.
> 
> Also, do all updates usually take an hour? I'm looking at a 41-minute ETA for the completion of this one. Have no idea what the original firmware was; didn't check beforehand.


That’s strange, I can’t recall an update that took longer than a few minutes tops. :-/

Or... did they just add Transparency mode in a big update?


----------



## Canabuc

Canabuc said:


> There was no hearthrough when I owned them.


If there is with an update might reconsider them over the buggy MT.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

Canabuc said:


> There was no hearthrough when I owned them.


I've got at least 30 minutes before I can find out for myself. Comfort's not too bad, though there's a clear difference between kinda inserted and _really _inserted thanks to those shells. I'm going to continue testing it out, but the _kinda inserted _method might be just fine, in which case Senn knocked it out of the park with regards to comfort.


----------



## SoundChoice

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Here's some pictures of that new setup guide, for anybody interested:



Status LED #4 - "Right earbud is in case but not charging against contacts, try again."

(congrats on the Senn gift!)


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

SoundChoice said:


> Status LED #4 - "Right earbud is in case but not charging against contacts, try again."
> 
> (congrats on the Senn gift!)


:lol: That's probably more accurate. In full disclosure, the left buds seem to pull towards the case with more magnetic force than the right. I have a feeling this might be a systemic thing, but the contacts still engage and the MTs are now fully charged. Looks like I'll have to be more conscientious of the right bud than the left. No creaky case, at least.

And thanks regarding the Senns! Extremely unexpected, definitely appreciated. 27 minutes to go on that update; must have been going for about 20 minutes already. This must be a pretty substantial update. So substantial I can't track down a single Change Notes or article about it...


----------



## Canabuc

Bartig said:


> That’s strange, I can’t recall an update that took longer than a few minutes tops. :-/
> 
> Or... did they just add Transparency mode in a big update?


No there was an update when I first got them took like 40 minutes


----------



## Canabuc

SoundChoice said:


> Status LED #4 - "Right earbud is in case but not charging against contacts, try again."
> 
> (congrats on the Senn gift!)


Got a lot of status 4 LED.


----------



## Canabuc

miserybeforethemusic said:


> :lol: That's probably more accurate. In full disclosure, the left buds seem to pull towards the case with more magnetic force than the right. I have a feeling this might be a systemic thing, but the contacts still engage and the MTs are now fully charged. Looks like I'll have to be more conscientious of the right bud than the left. No creaky case, at least.
> 
> And thanks regarding the Senns! Extremely unexpected, definitely appreciated. 27 minutes to go on that update; must have been going for about 20 minutes already. This must be a pretty substantial update. So substantial I can't track down a single Change Notes or article about it...


Do you just drop the right bud in and it clicks in and charges?
Not sure what to do as this seems to be a common issue. Think it is a lottery and maybe a future batch they will fix properly.
I messaged them through Amazon and they never acknowledged it was an issue only that they would replace from their stock. Wonder if they have newer fixed stock over that from Amazon.
What was turnaround from when you shipped yours to them and got the replacement.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

Canabuc said:


> Do you just drop the right bud in and it clicks in and charges?


Yep, from about an inch off the plate. Left one goes in with a solid *thunk*. Right one goes in with a less confident eeeeeh (onomatopoeia baby!), but they both charge for now.

If you want the newest stock, sounds like you'll want an RMA. Takes 1-2 days for them to reply to your trouble ticket, they'll send you prepaid postage, and you'll probably get a shipping notification the day after your bunk pair arrives at their service center (pretty sure they contract this part out). I got my replacement within the same week, but they shipped from a state or two over. Might want to add a few days to allow time for the mounties to have fun with it.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

Well that stinks. Took 50 minutes to finish the update aaaaaand...totally a typo. Double-tapping the Right bud just resumed Spotify.

So no transparency mode. Oh well.


----------



## Canabuc

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Yep, from about an inch off the plate. Left one goes in with a solid *thunk*. Right one goes in with a less confident eeeeeh (onomatopoeia baby!), but they both charge for now.
> 
> If you want the newest stock, sounds like you'll want an RMA. Takes 1-2 days for them to reply to your trouble ticket, they'll send you prepaid postage, and you'll probably get a shipping notification the day after your bunk pair arrives at their service center (pretty sure they contract this part out). I got my replacement within the same week, but they shipped from a state or two over. Might want to add a few days to allow time for the mounties to have fun with it.


Would I just be better off ordering another pair from Amazon and return these? Can have em by Saturday. Just worried will have same issue and Amazon already has me on naughty list. So either I return for good or RMA


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

Canabuc said:


> Would I just be better off ordering another pair from Amazon and return these? Can have em by Saturday. Just worried will have same issue and Amazon already has me on naughty list. So either I return for good or RMA


RMA


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

Switching over the MT to make sure I don't have a dud. Looks like this pair shipped with FW 1.1.2, but instantly paired up and recognized the need to update firmware when I opened the app.



Spoiler: Spoiler Alert: Open Only If You Want To Laugh At My Expense



First attempt didn't go too well. Got an Error 0X0000.
Tried to immediately reattempt and got the same error.
Rebooted and got an Error 0x0023 this time.
Immediately reattempted and this time the Right bud sticks on 0% for 5 minutes, then generates an error with no corresponding code.
Closed out the app, cleared cache and app data...
COMPLETED
Go back to home screen
_*The firmware versions of your left and right earphones are different. Please update the firmware now*_
Seriously?
Sure, why not...
Right bud hangs at 1% for 5 minutes, then generates an error with no corresponding code.
Force close app and restart
_*The firmware versions of your left and right earphones are different. Please update the firmware now*_
Now I'm just a glutton for punishment...UPDATE
Gets to 11%, unspecified error
Close app, wipe cache and data _again_
*You're all up to date*
Sure, and my BP is all up to 220/130 now. Thanks.



After all of that, I decide to tap the volume rocker up _once_ on the phone _and the erratic volume thing happens all over again_. Cambridge , your code is messed up. The odds that I'd have the same exact setup (and user experience) hassle on two separate retail sets are astronomically high unless it's the code or my phone itself causing the trouble. This doesn't happen with _any_ other set, though. Man, I'm frustrated.

Kudos to those of you who got a good pair. Looks like I got back the same exact quantity I sent out, at least.


----------



## bladefd (Apr 1, 2021)

miserybeforethemusic said:


> :lol: That's probably more accurate. In full disclosure, the left buds seem to pull towards the case with more magnetic force than the right. I have a feeling this might be a systemic thing, but the contacts still engage and the MTs are now fully charged. Looks like I'll have to be more conscientious of the right bud than the left. No creaky case, at least.


So it might not be worth it getting RMA over it if it's an universal issue. Dang it! 

I think I'm just going to have to deal with the charging issue. I will probably get Sony xm4 or something next summer but at least it will have a full year of firmwares/bugs & issues oiled out. I want to be wiser next time instead of rushing it.


----------



## Canabuc

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Switching over the MT to make sure I don't have a dud. Looks like this pair shipped with FW 1.1.2, but instantly paired up and recognized the need to update firmware when I opened the app.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That is concerning. I would have thought if you got newer stock it would have had a newer firmware out of the box. My gut feeling is they made 1 big run of these and warehoused them and either them or Amazon just distributes after.
Means if I go through them or Amazon I will likely get the same item.....


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

bladefd said:


> So it might not be worth it getting RMA over it if it's an universal issue. Dang it!


In the short term? Probably not worth it, but there's definitely something wonky with the right bud. I can understand if it takes a little more finesse to get the charging contacts to align; requiring a certification in advanced troubleshooting to get past the initial setup steps? Significantly bigger problem. But problems like that, the ones that are relegated to software, are so user-specific that it's really hard for manufacturers to give fixes to that kind of stuff. Only thing we can really do is give them metric data to hopefully identify and address this issue for good...or be able to give a warning to users of certain phones that there's a compatibility issue.

But I've got them both updated, in High Power mode, and verified volume control works. I'll probably _still_ hold onto them just to test with other phones, but maybe we'll consider this a preliminary warning to owners of OnePlus 8Ts. Maybe I'll relegate these to the Pixel 3a for a week to see if I have any of the same issues.

Really hope it's the phone and not the buds, though at this point, I won't be as upset if I end up sending these back.


Canabuc said:


> That is concerning. I would have thought if you got newer stock it would have had a newer firmware out of the box. My gut feeling is they made 1 big run of these and warehoused them and either them or Amazon just distributes after.
> Means if I go through them or Amazon I will likely get the same item.....


I think you're coming to the wrong conclusion there. Seems more likely Cambridge overbought on inventory for the "buggy" run, meaning it's going to take something big to get them to scrap that stock. Also means Amazon and Cambridge are pulling from the same stock pool. It's very likely you'll get the same batch, regardless of whom you choose to buy from.

Like I said, best thing we can do is email. CEO gave it in the box, so let's use it. Once I'm out of team meetings for the day, I'll be drafting one myself.


----------



## Luke Skywalker

Seeing some great reviews of the MW08s. anyone get them yet?


----------



## Canabuc

miserybeforethemusic said:


> In the short term? Probably not worth it, but there's definitely something wonky with the right bud. I can understand if it takes a little more finesse to get the charging contacts to align; requiring a certification in advanced troubleshooting to get past the initial setup steps? Significantly bigger problem. But problems like that, the ones that are relegated to software, are so user-specific that it's really hard for manufacturers to give fixes to that kind of stuff. Only thing we can really do is give them metric data to hopefully identify and address this issue for good...or be able to give a warning to users of certain phones that there's a compatibility issue.
> 
> But I've got them both updated, in High Power mode, and verified volume control works. I'll probably _still_ hold onto them just to test with other phones, but maybe we'll consider this a preliminary warning to owners of OnePlus 8Ts. Maybe I'll relegate these to the Pixel 3a for a week to see if I have any of the same issues.
> 
> ...


I guess my point is that I can't see how they make this right if I will be getting a replacement from the same pool of stock that has these issues. I don't know the economics of these things bit I imagine to save on costs they mass produce a large batch. When that inventory reaches a certain threshold and based on projected sales in the future they might make another run that would likely also have some slight revisions to the hardware.
However if sales are below expectations and it would seem this model got off to a rocky start with connectivity issues and poor Amazon reviews it likely won't ever reach that revised run if inventory meaning all of the ones being sold will have varying degrees of these same issues.

It is no wonder the price had dropped by 30 dollars Canadian so fast in am effort to promote more sales.

The firmware you replacement had which is likely close to a month newer from last purchase, is still 4 firmware updates old and thus likely from the initial run.

As such anyone RMAing their unit will be playing the lottery if the next set improves.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

Canabuc said:


> I guess my point is that I can't see how they make this right if I will be getting a replacement from the same pool of stock that has these issues. I don't know the economics of these things bit I imagine to save on costs they mass produce a large batch. When that inventory reaches a certain threshold and based on projected sales in the future they might make another run that would likely also have some slight revisions to the hardware.
> However if sales are below expectations and it would seem this model got off to a rocky start with connectivity issues and poor Amazon reviews it likely won't ever reach that revised run if inventory meaning all of the ones being sold will have varying degrees of these same issues.
> 
> It is no wonder the price had dropped by 30 dollars Canadian so fast in am effort to promote more sales.
> ...


Yep, it's certainly a lottery. Somewhat of a Catch-22 as well. Can't know there's a problem if it's not reported, but maybe not enough people are reporting?

Anywho, I've sent my message off to Cambridge, along with an invite to join discussion here. Hoping he drops in, but I guess we'll see what happens. For now, I've got to table the MTs. If I can't even pair them to the Pixel 3a and get both buds to play, then that's a pretty big problem.


----------



## bladefd (Apr 1, 2021)

Canabuc said:


> I guess my point is that I can't see how they make this right if I will be getting a replacement from the same pool of stock that has these issues. I don't know the economics of these things bit I imagine to save on costs they mass produce a large batch. When that inventory reaches a certain threshold and based on projected sales in the future they might make another run that would likely also have some slight revisions to the hardware.
> However if sales are below expectations and it would seem this model got off to a rocky start with connectivity issues and poor Amazon reviews it likely won't ever reach that revised run if inventory meaning all of the ones being sold will have varying degrees of these same issues.
> 
> It is no wonder the price had dropped by 30 dollars Canadian so fast in am effort to promote more sales.
> ...


That's why I might wait a few months to rma. Unfortunately, they might eventually begin to RMA returned units from initial batch rather than brand new ones so it might continue until they have completely exhausted the initial first batch that even rma doesn't cycle through them.. Might take 6-10 months depending on how big the batch was..


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

bladefd said:


> That's why I might wait a few months to rma. Unfortunately, they might eventually begin to RMA returned units from initial batch rather than brand new ones so it might continue until they have completely exhausted the initial first batch that even rma doesn't cycle through them.. Might take 6-10 months depending on how big the batch was..


Took James about 5 days to get back to me last time. In that email, he seemed genuinely interested in a solution, so I'm willing to be patient. Just means I have to pull these from my recommendations list until all the bugs are sorted out. I'd honestly just keep RMAing bad devices until I got a good one. I was also born in the Year of the Ox, so that naturally makes me pretty obstinate when I want to be.

Senns are in; don't think the stock sound signature is that grand. I would have been pretty upset if I spent $200 for these. I guess, in a sense, they're non-fatiguing, but they're also largely lifeless and bloated to my ears. They're a little more easy to digest at 1/2 that price. Treble is way too rolled off, midbass bleed is quite obnoxious, and everything just somewhat lives in the midrange making the overall sound signature pretty tough for me to appreciate. They can't reproduce natural timbres nearly as well as the Technics or Noble can. Don't disappear into your ears quite like the UEs or Noble can. Dare I say it, they're just okay. Is this really what the tech-tubers were salivating over for months?

If the Technics hadn't received a price drop, the JBL would be stealing the crown in this price category. Now that you can get the AZ70W for $150, though, I think that's going to be a smarter entry point for a lot of people, especially iPhone users as you'll have the advantage with AAC. Had the JBL made more positive steps to improve ANC and their HearThrough modes, I'd give them more credit and their dynamic driver is certainly the most compelling part of the package, but I think the Technics has more to offer and in a more premium package. Then again, JBL wins outright on the case in a lot of ways; guess it depends on what's important to you.


----------



## Canabuc (Apr 1, 2021)

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Took James about 5 days to get back to me last time. In that email, he seemed genuinely interested in a solution, so I'm willing to be patient. Just means I have to pull these from my recommendations list until all the bugs are sorted out. I'd honestly just keep RMAing bad devices until I got a good one. I was also born in the Year of the Ox, so that naturally makes me pretty obstinate when I want to be.
> 
> Senns are in; don't think the stock sound signature is that grand. I would have been pretty upset if I spent $200 for these. I guess, in a sense, they're non-fatiguing, but they're also largely lifeless and bloated to my ears. They're a little more easy to digest at 1/2 that price. Treble is way too rolled off, midbass bleed is quite obnoxious, and everything just somewhat lives in the midrange making the overall sound signature pretty tough for me to appreciate. They can't reproduce natural timbres nearly as well as the Technics or Noble can. Don't disappear into your ears quite like the UEs or Noble can. Dare I say it, they're just okay. Is this really what the tech-tubers were salivating over for months?
> 
> If the Technics hadn't received a price drop, the JBL would be stealing the crown in this price category. Now that you can get the AZ70W for $150, though, I think that's going to be a smarter entry point for a lot of people, especially iPhone users as you'll have the advantage with AAC. Had the JBL made more positive steps to improve ANC and their HearThrough modes, I'd give them more credit and their dynamic driver is certainly the most compelling part of the package, but I think the Technics has more to offer and in a more premium package. Then again, JBL wins outright on the case in a lot of ways; guess it depends on what's important to you.


I'm hoping the next set of earbuds JBL announced for May release will have improved ANC. Think they will have the same driver. So if they can keep the sound but with better for and ANC they will have a winner.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic (Apr 1, 2021)

That's a little better. Still think they're going to need a lot of EQ, but at least the bass is tighter. Fit is a lot more confident/comfortable with the Final tips on as well.

Tried the Comply and Dekoni I had. Both suck what little treble energy is left out of the picture. I'm not ready to mess with those quite yet.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

Ok that's not bad.

Much clearer. Sub-bass is now distinct from bass and midbass whereas it seemed like one giant glob up until the midrange before. Treble is a little more extended, though significantly rolled off, as I made about 1/2 the adjustment on 8k than I normally do.

They still don't have a very realistic timbre, though it's a lot better now than what it was in stock form. Definitely some ooh moments here and there, but not quite the HD6/8 experience that one might anticipate getting from a company of such pedigree. Still, the value proposition is a little better now.

They're certainly worth $100.


----------



## Canabuc

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Ok that's not bad.
> 
> Much clearer. Sub-bass is now distinct from bass and midbass whereas it seemed like one giant glob up until the midrange before. Treble is a little more extended, though significantly rolled off, as I made about 1/2 the adjustment on 8k than I normally do.
> 
> ...


I know I asked about neutralizer before but you manually do this rest? Then do those settings work system wide?
Also the graphs you post are the adjustments you made? E.g. the sub bass bump as well as the peak at 10k? Or is it just the waveform compared to some standard?


----------



## diimaan

Luke Skywalker said:


> One slight negative to the KEFs, if you can even call it that.  I tried swapping the included tips for my favorite Acoustune AET08's.  They sounded amazing but the with the large size, the case didn't close at all.  I tried the mediums and they case came really close to closing but you could see a crack and they didn't consistently charge.  Thought about cutting a few millimeters off the end of the AET08 tip to see if that might help


I posted some time back in the thread about tips compatibility for KEF’s! Including the AET08 
The ones those fit well are the ones compatible with Galaxy Buds Plus and N6P stock. I recently got Sedna Crystal and they fit like a glove and I’m using them on my three mostly used buds (KEF, JBL Club Pro+ and Galaxy Buds Plus)


----------



## CocaCola15

miserybeforethemusic said:


> I recommended both to a friend, recently. Had lent him the Soundcore Q30 and wasn't aware this was his first time not listening to some generic consumer pair of headphones; suffice to say he's now been bit by the bug, so figured the Q30 would be a fitting gift, but told him the MT/M1+ would be leagues better if he was willing to take the plunge (assuming the sound signatures are relatively close).
> 
> But here's an odd question...I thought the CX 400BT didn't have HearThrough, but I'm seeing it here on the app's intro stack. I know it didn't have ANC.
> 
> Also, do all updates usually take an hour? I'm looking at a 41-minute ETA for the completion of this one. Have no idea what the original firmware was; didn't check beforehand.


Funny, I got the Q30 for like $59 on a sale. Fantastic value. Thisclose to the Sony WH1000-XM3.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

Canabuc said:


> I know I asked about neutralizer before but you manually do this rest? Then do those settings work system wide?
> Also the graphs you post are the adjustments you made? E.g. the sub bass bump as well as the peak at 10k? Or is it just the waveform compared to some standard?


It's a semi-manual process. Here's how making a preset works, to the best of my ability:

Tap the "+" button to add a preset
Name your preset (they call this "Create profile"
A 32 Hz tone plays and you see a screen like this:
You can either use your fingers to run the dial up/down until you can just hear the tone play, then tap the right arrow
The process repeats at 63Hz, 125Hz, 250Hz. 500Hz, 1k, 2k, 4k, 8k, and finally 16k. Usually 16k is completely inaudible for me, so I leave it alone
Tap the check box and your preset is saved.
It's not 100% system-wide, but it seems like the usual suspects will feed through the EQ just fine. Spotify, Qobuz, and YouTube worked. UAPP didn't, but that should be expected, given the way audio routing within UAPP works.


CocaCola15 said:


> Funny, I got the Q30 for like $59 on a sale. Fantastic value. Thisclose to the Sony WH1000-XM3.


Yeah, it's surprisingly close to the QC35 (original) that we have here as well in terms of overall build. Man, those Bose are built like tanks. They have to be more than a decade old, no case, and I've only swapped the pads once. She's definitely scratched up from years of travel, but otherwise built far better than most stuff these days.

I wish the clamping force were a little tighter, though. Only gripe in terms of build I could really think of. Plenty of swivel for oddly-shaped heads (not meaning to put anybody down, but you know who you are). Takes one to know one. Otherwise an exceptional deal, especially at that sale price.


----------



## CocaCola15

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Switching over the MT to make sure I don't have a dud. Looks like this pair shipped with FW 1.1.2, but instantly paired up and recognized the need to update firmware when I opened the app.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Stinks. I had one hiccup on the FW update, but it went through.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

CocaCola15 said:


> Stinks. I had one hiccup on the FW update, but it went through.


Hah mine is borked. Glad it worked out for one of us, but good news is I don't get mad over stuff like this anymore.


----------



## erockg

Luke Skywalker said:


> Seeing some great reviews of the MW08s. anyone get them yet?


Slated for delivery tomorrow.  Fingers crossed...


----------



## CocaCola15 (Apr 1, 2021)

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Hah mine is borked. Glad it worked out for one of us, but good news is I don't get mad over stuff like this anymore.


Honestly when the FW update sputtered on the R bud, I figured they were going back and I’d be happy with the new M1+ . But it made it through. Now on 1.3.1. Upside is the $20 price drop from the original pair. This time I bought white. No issue with R bud in the case, though not as solid an initial connection as with the R.
Looking forward to your take on the Status Between Pro. Enjoying them here.

Update: As I was typing, the MTs stopped playing, hitting play/pause on the player ... nothing. Tapped the right bud, started playing again.

Uh-oh.
Nevermind. My Echo Dot jumped into the BT que, cut off the MT connection. It happens now and then. Damn Amazon.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

CocaCola15 said:


> Honestly when the FW update sputtered on the R bud, I figured they were going back and I’d be happy with the new M1+ . But it made it through. Now on 1.3.1. Upside is the $20 price drop from the original pair. This time I bought white. No issue with R bud in the case, though not as solid an initial connection as with the R.
> Looking forward to your take on the Status Between Pro. Enjoying them here.
> 
> Update: As I was typing, the MTs stopped playing, hitting play/pause on the player ... nothing. Tapped the right bud, started playing again.
> ...


It's the newest feature. No longer do you need to _speak_ the wake word. Merely _think_ it and she'll put herself smack dab in the middle of your business.
I'm only half kidding.


----------



## CocaCola15

miserybeforethemusic said:


> It's the newest feature. No longer do you need to _speak_ the wake word. Merely _think_ it and she'll put herself smack dab in the middle of your business.
> I'm only half kidding.


Mic is turned off. But Alexa is nothing but determined. Finds the BT signal, bam! It’s connected to my iphone.
But we digress. Back to TW chat.


----------



## Canabuc

My settings for the EA75t.
Honestly I prefer them to the 85t and the refurbished with wireless charging deal was great. 
ANC is above average to die to very good PNC as well.
It beat the Sennheiser killed the JBL beat the Samsung. Would it put it just behind the Huawei and Sony and 85t.

Buttons are very practical as well.


----------



## Canabuc

Just got a reply from Cambridge audio. They state they will send me from New stock. The warehouse happens to be in Quebec so hopefully a quick turnaround.


----------



## rhsauer

erockg said:


> Slated for delivery tomorrow.  Fingers crossed...


Did you get expedited shipping?  I ordered by noon on the day of release and mine aren't coming until April 7.  Will be looking forward to your thoughts about them!


----------



## LordToneeus

erockg said:


> Slated for delivery tomorrow.  Fingers crossed...


Since I sent back the Cambridge MTs I’ve contented myself with the refurbed Active 75ts and my Bt20s + KZ ZAX combos, but M&D sure have sang the siren song with the MWO8s. Every review I’ve seen has pretty much said, “yep, they‘re worth that.”  I’m just waiting for Best Buy to list them, as I have $115 in rewards certificates that will make the $299 asking price more palatable.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

LordToneeus said:


> Since I sent back the Cambridge MTs I’ve contented myself with the refurbed Active 75ts and my Bt20s + KZ ZAX combos, but M&D sure have sang the siren song with the MWO8s. Every review I’ve seen has pretty much said, “yep, they‘re worth that.”  I’m just waiting for Best Buy to list them, as I have $115 in rewards certificates that will make the $299 asking price more palatable.


At least in my experience, _yep, they're worth that_ is equivalent to _if you don't have anything nice to say, at least comment on the price bracket_.

The MW07 needed a lot of tuning, but they had a good foundation. I wouldn't expect the MW08 to be a mad departure, but I really hope they fixed their in-call mic quality because it was practically unusable inside of a house, let alone in real-world conditions. Definitely take advantage of the rewards you can claim because I have a hard time swallowing that retail price. Might as well just put the same funds towards the PI5 when it's released at that price.


----------



## Luke Skywalker

diimaan said:


> I posted some time back in the thread about tips compatibility for KEF’s! Including the AET08
> The ones those fit well are the ones compatible with Galaxy Buds Plus and N6P stock. I recently got Sedna Crystal and they fit like a glove and I’m using them on my three mostly used buds (KEF, JBL Club Pro+ and Galaxy Buds Plus)


Wow that’s awesome.  So what are the absolute best tips for the KEFs to buy?
thanks


----------



## diimaan (Apr 2, 2021)

Luke Skywalker said:


> Wow that’s awesome.  So what are the absolute best tips for the KEFs to buy?
> thanks



AZLA SednaEarfit Crystal, I like them so far! Also I use N6P stock tips at times!
And for compatibility, any tips that are compatible with Galaxy Buds Plus or N6P fits the KEF


----------



## erockg (Apr 2, 2021)

M&D nailed it. Wow. Still testing out. They’re smaller. Beautiful build quality. Matte finish is awesome. Love redesigned case. ANC so far is miles ahead of the MW07 Plus. So glad they redesigned the fit. The wingtips always killed my ears after a few hours. Now, hardly notice I’m wearing them.


----------



## erockg (Apr 2, 2021)

Delete


----------



## TK33

erockg said:


> M&D nailed it. Wow. Still testing out. They’re smaller. Beautiful build quality. Matte finish is awesome. Love redesigned case. ANC so far is miles ahead of the MW07 Plus. So glad they redesigned the fit. The wingtips always killed my ears after a few hours. Now, hardly notice I’m wearing them.


How do they sound? Similar to the MW07 Plus (if you can remember)? I actually like the wings. Helped keep them stable in my ears. Ive had others fall out due to either me being too hungry or my lunch tasting too delicious and the chewing that resulted in either case and always felt the wings helped. Looking forward to your impressions.


----------



## samandhi

@miserybeforethemusic  IMO yes, the Tin Hifi P1 are worth the sale price for sure. I would argue that they are worth much more than the asking price. I think they would actually compete with some of much higher priced IEMs for instance. If it were me though, I would get the bundle that includes the Tripowin C8 balanced cable (your choice of ends). It is fantastic! Most people that got these when the hype train was rolling gave up on these way too early, thinking they have no bass at all. They do, and it is VERY detailed. You DO have to EQ it up a bit to get a fuller sound, but you don't seem to be scared away from having to EQ a bit. I absolutely love the planar sound so this this is all my opinion, so may or may not be your sound, but at this price, you can't really lose. 

On another note, I have been using the Nuarl N6Pro for about a month or so, and have some great news! They sound fantastic. Maybe it is my ears, but I swear that the bass has gotten much better for me. Combined with the already superior detail retrieval, these are really great TWS. Don't get me wrong, I DO still EQ them a bit, but I can listen to them stock, and not think they suck at this point. I am not trying to debate the belief (or not) of burn-in, but something has gotten better to my ears for them, and I will be keeping them as they do everything I need from a sound perspective (and I love the clicky buttons over touch). I ordered the Pro version for the Spinfit 360, but use these on other TWS. Instead I found the Final Type E (regular) are the best for these because they are deep insertion TWS.


----------



## erockg

TK33 said:


> How do they sound? Similar to the MW07 Plus (if you can remember)? I actually like the wings. Helped keep them stable in my ears. Ive had others fall out due to either me being too hungry or my lunch tasting too delicious and the chewing that resulted in either case and always felt the wings helped. Looking forward to your impressions.


I think they do sound better, but I still have to crank them up all the way when using my iPhone 12, just like the Plus.  The 08's seem to be more bass heavy to my ears.  If you loved the wings, you may not like the fit.  It's like wearing nothing.  I'll be using them all weekend to assess.


----------



## zeinharis

samandhi said:


> @miserybeforethemusic  IMO yes, the Tin Hifi P1 are worth the sale price for sure. I would argue that they are worth much more than the asking price. I think they would actually compete with some of much higher priced IEMs for instance. If it were me though, I would get the bundle that includes the Tripowin C8 balanced cable (your choice of ends). It is fantastic! Most people that got these when the hype train was rolling gave up on these way too early, thinking they have no bass at all. They do, and it is VERY detailed. You DO have to EQ it up a bit to get a fuller sound, but you don't seem to be scared away from having to EQ a bit. I absolutely love the planar sound so this this is all my opinion, so may or may not be your sound, but at this price, you can't really lose.
> 
> On another note, I have been using the Nuarl N6Pro for about a month or so, and have some great news! They sound fantastic. Maybe it is my ears, but I swear that the bass has gotten much better for me. Combined with the already superior detail retrieval, these are really great TWS. Don't get me wrong, I DO still EQ them a bit, but I can listen to them stock, and not think they suck at this point. I am not trying to debate the belief (or not) of burn-in, but something has gotten better to my ears for them, and I will be keeping them as they do everything I need from a sound perspective (and I love the clicky buttons over touch). I ordered the Pro version for the Spinfit 360, but use these on other TWS. Instead I found the Final Type E (regular) are the best for these because they are deep insertion TWS.


You definitely need to get the Nuarl N10 Pro, it have N6P’s detail retrieval (even better) but with thumping bass.


----------



## TK33

erockg said:


> I think they do sound better, but I still have to crank them up all the way when using my iPhone 12, just like the Plus.  The 08's seem to be more bass heavy to my ears.  If you loved the wings, you may not like the fit.  It's like wearing nothing.  I'll be using them all weekend to assess.


Thanks. Not sure how I feel about more bass heavy.  Glad to hear you like them though. Enjoy!


----------



## SilverEars

miserybeforethemusic said:


> New release from Emotiva. Wonder what BT codecs it supports?



Overkill for TWS? lol  I wish they'd make a headphone amp.  I thought the basX was pretty good for the money, but it has too much gain that it can only drive very low efficient headphone due to being a speaker amp.


----------



## kolbo

I’m trying the MW08 now. 
To me they sound much better than the 85t. Deeper, more defined bass and clearer treble. 
Issues so far:

Fit. They are very shallow. I’m still trying to find tips that fit well 
ANC does almost nothing. Passive isolation is not so bad though so I need ANC less. 
Ambient mode is mediocre. I hope they can improve it via firmware.


----------



## erockg (Apr 2, 2021)

kolbo said:


> I’m trying the MW08 now.
> To me they sound much better than the 85t. Deeper, more defined bass and clearer treble.
> Issues so far:
> 
> ...


Weird.  The ANC here is completely cutting fan noise inside and traffic noise outside my window.  Also had a conversation with passthrough on with no issues.


----------



## kolbo

erockg said:


> Weird.  The ANC here is completely cutting fan noise inside and traffic noise outside my window.


Maybe my fit is still not great? I don’t know.


----------



## erockg

kolbo said:


> Maybe my fit is still not great? I don’t know.


Could be.  I switched mine out for the XL tips but may experiment with others from my collection.


----------



## SemiAudiophile

samandhi said:


> @miserybeforethemusic  IMO yes, the Tin Hifi P1 are worth the sale price for sure. I would argue that they are worth much more than the asking price. I think they would actually compete with some of much higher priced IEMs for instance. If it were me though, I would get the bundle that includes the Tripowin C8 balanced cable (your choice of ends). It is fantastic! Most people that got these when the hype train was rolling gave up on these way too early, thinking they have no bass at all. They do, and it is VERY detailed. You DO have to EQ it up a bit to get a fuller sound, but you don't seem to be scared away from having to EQ a bit. I absolutely love the planar sound so this this is all my opinion, so may or may not be your sound, but at this price, you can't really lose.
> 
> On another note, I have been using the Nuarl N6Pro for about a month or so, and have some great news! They sound fantastic. Maybe it is my ears, but I swear that the bass has gotten much better for me. Combined with the already superior detail retrieval, these are really great TWS. Don't get me wrong, I DO still EQ them a bit, but I can listen to them stock, and not think they suck at this point. I am not trying to debate the belief (or not) of burn-in, but something has gotten better to my ears for them, and I will be keeping them as they do everything I need from a sound perspective (and I love the clicky buttons over touch). I ordered the Pro version for the Spinfit 360, but use these on other TWS. Instead I found the Final Type E (regular) are the best for these because they are deep insertion TWS.


I bought the kbear limpid pro to go with mine. Felt like a pure silver balanced would go well with them or the Dusk. I don't really mind the bass being light, but think they do lack some fullness in the sound. Turning on bass boost or EQ make them sound a lot better.  They could probably be valued around $400-500 range tbh.

I really liked the n6p too but felt like they weren't versatile enough for different genres. They sounded amazing on certain tracks but then shrill on others. I also noticed a bit of sibilance on them too. In the end, I didn't think they were worth keeping so I returned them.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

samandhi said:


> @miserybeforethemusic  IMO yes, the Tin Hifi P1 are worth the sale price for sure. I would argue that they are worth much more than the asking price. I think they would actually compete with some of much higher priced IEMs for instance. If it were me though, I would get the bundle that includes the Tripowin C8 balanced cable (your choice of ends). It is fantastic! Most people that got these when the hype train was rolling gave up on these way too early, thinking they have no bass at all. They do, and it is VERY detailed. You DO have to EQ it up a bit to get a fuller sound, but you don't seem to be scared away from having to EQ a bit. I absolutely love the planar sound so this this is all my opinion, so may or may not be your sound, but at this price, you can't really lose.
> 
> On another note, I have been using the Nuarl N6Pro for about a month or so, and have some great news! They sound fantastic. Maybe it is my ears, but I swear that the bass has gotten much better for me. Combined with the already superior detail retrieval, these are really great TWS. Don't get me wrong, I DO still EQ them a bit, but I can listen to them stock, and not think they suck at this point. I am not trying to debate the belief (or not) of burn-in, but something has gotten better to my ears for them, and I will be keeping them as they do everything I need from a sound perspective (and I love the clicky buttons over touch). I ordered the Pro version for the Spinfit 360, but use these on other TWS. Instead I found the Final Type E (regular) are the best for these because they are deep insertion TWS.


Thanks! I really appreciate the insight. I think we're fairly like-minded in what part of this we see as a hobby. Didn't end up getting the C8 cable, but P1s will be on the way whenever a company I can't name here ends up shipping them. Knowing how big this sale just was, it'll probably be a while. I will most likely forget I even ordered them by the time they arrive.

I wouldn't mind giving the Nuarl a spin. There's just so many pairs here at this point that I've got to thin the herd first.


SilverEars said:


> Overkill for TWS? lol  I wish they'd make a headphone amp.  I thought the basX was pretty good for the money, but it has too much gain that it can only drive very low efficient headphone due to being a speaker amp.


Did you watch the video? It's their AFD special. Pretty well-written, imo. I'd be a customer just for the creativity.

By your second statement, I assume that means you could barely bring gain above bottom or it'd overdrive? If so, that's a bummer. Haven't had much experience with their processors or headphone stages, though.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

James (Cambridge) sent a very thoughtful response. At his suggestion (and with my gratitude for the valuable time he's donated to going above and beyond on his own), I'm sharing it here:


> Thank you so much for reaching out to me again. I am so sorry you are unable to be positive, given the troubles you have had.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Slowhand

erockg said:


> I think they do sound better, but I still have to crank them up all the way when using my iPhone 12, just like the Plus.  The 08's seem to be more bass heavy to my ears.  If you loved the wings, you may not like the fit.  It's like wearing nothing.  I'll be using them all weekend to assess.



I wonder if there is a difference between the 07's Plus and Go in the volume department. I have the Go and never go above 60-70% volume, tested on iPhone XS and 8.


----------



## ticoss

it seems that Lypertek is preparing new TWS: the Lypertek Pureplay Z7
2Ba, 1 dynamic driver, Qualcomm QCC3040 chipset, 10 hours from a the single charge + 60 with the case (who case seems large) etc..
On their Facebook, there is a picture where the price is 199.99$


----------



## kolbo

erockg said:


> Could be.  I switched mine out for the XL tips but may experiment with others from my collection.


I think my seal is fine. 
I just tested again after factory reset. There is barely any difference between off and ANC. I’m standing next to a fan and the difference is minuscule. Maybe my set if defective?


----------



## erockg

kolbo said:


> I think my seal is fine.
> I just tested again after factory reset. There is barely any difference between off and ANC. I’m standing next to a fan and the difference is minuscule. Maybe my set if defective?


Strange.  Could be, or your expectations were higher than mine.  I have a toddler watching Bluey, a wife doing laundry, as well as, normal outside noise right now.  I tested them against my APP and the MW08.  Both cut out pretty much the same amount of noise in my surroundings at home.  APP a _tiny_ bit more of the tv show.  Neither cut out the w/d if I'm standing right next to them, but that's to be expected.  My AirPods Max crush them both in the ANC department. 

They do sound pretty awesome.  IMO, better than the 07 Plus.  Absolutely love the build quality and size.

Did you compare them to any other buds you have with ANC?


----------



## kolbo

erockg said:


> Strange.  Could be, or your expectations were higher than mine.  I have a toddler watching Bluey, a wife doing laundry, as well as, normal outside noise right now.  I tested them against my APP and the MW08.  Both cut out pretty much the same amount of noise in my surroundings at home.  APP a _tiny_ bit more of the tv show.  Neither cut out the w/d if I'm standing right next to them, but that's to be expected.  My AirPods Max crush them both in the ANC department.
> 
> They do sound pretty awesome.  IMO, better than the 07 Plus.  Absolutely love the build quality and size.
> 
> Did you compare them to any other buds you have with ANC?


I’m comparing them to my 85t. Large difference.
On the other hand, passive isolation is better on the MW08. So if they are both off (no ANC or ambient) the MW08 blocks more.
I reached out to the company. We will see what they say. Love the sound so far though.


----------



## Luke Skywalker

diimaan said:


> AZLA SednaEarfit Crystal, I like them so far! Also I use N6P stock tips at times!
> And for compatibility, any tips that are compatible with Galaxy Buds Plus or N6P fits the KEF


Sweet - they’re on amazon for $28. Since I  wear a M in the Acoustune’s and the included KEF tips, I’m thinking of buying the M/ML/L set...


----------



## samandhi

SemiAudiophile said:


> I bought the kbear limpid pro to go with mine. Felt like a pure silver balanced would go well with them or the Dusk. I don't really mind the bass being light, but think they do lack some fullness in the sound. Turning on bass boost or EQ make them sound a lot better.  They could probably be valued around $400-500 range tbh.
> 
> I really liked the n6p too but felt like they weren't versatile enough for different genres. They sounded amazing on certain tracks but then shrill on others. I also noticed a bit of sibilance on them too. In the end, I didn't think they were worth keeping so I returned them.


Interesting choice of cables. I have never wholly believed in cables making a difference in sound, but for the first time with the P1 it is an almost quantifiable. On that note, I have found that pure silver is just too much (to my ears), and prefer the SPC cable. I tried pure copper, and also didn't like that as much. I totally agree with adding some bass quantity for a fuller overall sound. I also add a bit in the upper treble too. The 4K range is a bit boosted for me, and by adding this upper treble, it doesn't seem as much (rather than subtract the 4k and throwing off the overall tonal sound).  I also tend to agree with your valuation, but I might even say that they can compete with some of the <$1K brands out there (not all of course). 

I actually use the same tuning EQ on the N6P as I do with the P1. That extra boost in the upper treble takes away that shrill range (most likely again 4k or so) to me. So actually my EQ setup for these is more like a W. I don't notice any sibilance at all, but have heard the shrill(ness) that you described from time to time.


miserybeforethemusic said:


> Thanks! I really appreciate the insight. I think we're fairly like-minded in what part of this we see as a hobby. Didn't end up getting the C8 cable, but P1s will be on the way whenever a company I can't name here ends up shipping them. Knowing how big this sale just was, it'll probably be a while. I will most likely forget I even ordered them by the time they arrive.
> 
> I wouldn't mind giving the Nuarl a spin. There's just so many pairs here at this point that I've got to thin the herd first.


It seems that we are indeed like-minded in that respect. Yeah, mine took a long time to get to me initially also, but it was worth the wait for my part. I only mention the cable bundle because it was my experience that when I first got mine out of 3.5 SE (on the DX160) they sounded absolutely flat and lifeless (that and the stock cable is put together poorly, though not bad quality itself). This may have changed over time (burn-in?), but I have not even tried to use the 3.5mm since I got the balanced cable. So, who knows, maybe they do sound good from that connection now?! @tinyman392 seems to like them with the BT adaptor he has, and it only outputs less than half of what the DX outputs from SE. 

I know what you mean about reducing your stock first. It's hard to enjoy any one when you have so many to try and give personal attention to. 


miserybeforethemusic said:


> James (Cambridge) sent a very thoughtful response. At his suggestion (and with my gratitude for the valuable time he's donated to going above and beyond on his own), I'm sharing it here:


It is fantastic to see a company reacting this way in this day and age. I would rather stick with a company that ACTUALLY cares and has issues, than a company that doesn't care at all, and has no issues (I'm looking at Samsung for intsance), because in the long run there will be much less frustration IMO....


----------



## tinyman392

@samandhi I have the P1 connected to the TRN TWS adapters right now.  It adds a little bit of thickness to the bass as a whole while retaining the warmer mids and smoother treble.  I actually do like that setup very much.  I've always felt that the coloration that a DAC/amp provides makes a bigger difference in sound over the the pure power it outputs.  Some headphones are also very picky on input source too, so there is that.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic (Apr 3, 2021)

samandhi said:


> It is fantastic to see a company reacting this way in this day and age. I would rather stick with a company that ACTUALLY cares and has issues, than a company that doesn't care at all, and has no issues (I'm looking at Samsung for intsance), because in the long run there will be much less frustration IMO....


Considering my Galaxy S4 overheated on the charger and almost burned our house down, I agree wholeheartedly. James' response blew me out of the water and was such a refreshing take. Looking forward to hearing his perspective on things and it's somewhat reassuring to see that it may, in fact, be my phone that's the ultimate culprit.

And I do want to take a moment to emphasize this, in case you've (using the royal "you") been burned by something similar in the past. Sometimes it really is just the phone's fault. Just dealt with the wife's APPs not playing audio out of her iPhone yesterday and that's a product within their own ecosystem.

Tossing around DAPs between the DX160, Cayin N3 Pro, and M11 Pro. Just deciding whether I'm ready to go without my 2.5mm jack. Always thought the 4.4 would just look silly on most IEM cables. Anybody manage to get opinions on the daily usability and Bluetooth operation of either? I know they both lag in silicon compared to smartphones, but I'm still on that quest for a dedicated DAP.


----------



## SemiAudiophile (Apr 3, 2021)

samandhi said:


> Interesting choice of cables. I have never wholly believed in cables making a difference in sound, but for the first time with the P1 it is an almost quantifiable. On that note, I have found that pure silver is just too much (to my ears), and prefer the SPC cable. I tried pure copper, and also didn't like that as much. I totally agree with adding some bass quantity for a fuller overall sound. I also add a bit in the upper treble too. The 4K range is a bit boosted for me, and by adding this upper treble, it doesn't seem as much (rather than subtract the 4k and throwing off the overall tonal sound).  I also tend to agree with your valuation, but I might even say that they can compete with some of the <$1K brands out there (not all of course).
> 
> I actually use the same tuning EQ on the N6P as I do with the P1. That extra boost in the upper treble takes away that shrill range (most likely again 4k or so) to me. So actually my EQ setup for these is more like a W. I don't notice any sibilance at all, but have heard the shrill(ness) that you described from time to time.


Yeah I generally prefer SPC as well as they have the best of both worlds. Warmth of copper and extension of silver. But after trying the Duw-02 (excellent cable btw) on them I found they weren't a good match. It made the Dusk sound a little too warm too. They were much better suited with the ZAX. The stock cable sounds fine, I just don't like the build quality of them and want to try balanced. I actually found the stock foam tips sounded the best with the P1. Silicone was more lean and almost too airy sounding.

Update from Shenzhen Audio says UTWS3 will start shipping mid April. 😏


----------



## SemiAudiophile (Apr 3, 2021)

ticoss said:


> it seems that Lypertek is preparing new TWS: the Lypertek Pureplay Z7
> 2Ba, 1 dynamic driver, Qualcomm QCC3040 chipset, 10 hours from a the single charge + 60 with the case (who case seems large) etc..
> On their Facebook, there is a picture where the price is 199.99$


If they sound anything like the ER4's I'm all in! 😁


----------



## samandhi

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Considering my Galaxy S4 overheated on the charger and almost burned our house down, I agree wholeheartedly. James' response blew me out of the water and was such a refreshing take. Looking forward to hearing his perspective on things and it's somewhat reassuring to see that it may, in fact, be my phone that's the ultimate culprit.
> 
> And I do want to take a moment to emphasize this, in case you've (using the royal "you") been burned by something similar in the past. Sometimes it really is just the phone's fault. Just dealt with the wife's APPs not playing audio out of her iPhone yesterday and that's a product within their own ecosystem.
> 
> Tossing around DAPs between the DX160, Cayin N3 Pro, and M11 Pro. Just deciding whether I'm ready to go without my 2.5mm jack. Always thought the 4.4 would just look silly on most IEM cables. Anybody manage to get opinions on the daily usability and Bluetooth operation of either? I know they both lag in silicon compared to smartphones, but I'm still on that quest for a dedicated DAP.



I can't speak to the Cayin at all, and have never heard the M11 Pro personally, but did a lot of research when buying the DX. The M11 sound signature is on the bright side of neutral (some even say a bit tingy or too digital on the treble with treble cans), but has a much better OS (well, CPU anyhow) and in turn WiFi and Bluetooth. The DX is a tad on the warm side of neutral overall. It has an older Rockwell processor, but I haven't really had any issues with speed, or things to that nature. The bluetooth on it does have strength issues, and you won't be able to get more than 20 feet or so before having some drops. I keep mine in my pocket either way, so I have 0 issues with it. The DX has more power to the amp section, but both have dual DACs, all contemporary BT codecs on board, including being able to receive BT signals, etc.... You really can't go wrong with either one (though, since I own it, I am biased towards the DX by human nature.. hehe). 

Being a tube design, the N3Pro might also be on the warmer side, but I couldn't tell you either way. Also, don't forget to throw the Hiby R5 in the mix. It is a competitor to the Fiio and the DX in its price range, although it looks to be sold out everywhere (wonder if it is discontinued for the R5 Saber??).



SemiAudiophile said:


> Yeah I generally prefer SPC as well as they have the best of both worlds. Warmth of copper and extension of silver. But after trying the Duw-02 (excellent cable btw) on them I found they weren't a good match. It made the Dusk sound a little too warm too. They were much better suited with the ZAX. The stock cable sounds fine, I just don't like the build quality of them and want to try balanced. I actually found the stock foam tips sounded the best with the P1. Silicone was more lean and almost too airy sounding.


Yeah, I also did a bit of tip rolling on the P1. The stems on them are just so short, it is hard to get a good fit. I found that the best fit/sound for me was the Final Type E tips. I didn't like the foamies as much because, while it did boost the bass a bit, it took too much away from the detail retrieval for me (which is one of the things that set them apart for me).


----------



## BigZ12

Why so much talk of wired IEM's in here right now?


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

BigZ12 said:


> Why so much talk of wired IEM's in here right now?


How do you know if you're "there yet" if you don't compare against some sort of reference?

Part of this journey involved some of us being willing to make sonic sacrifices for the convenience of TWS, but there are some areas in which that gap is narrowing. The occasional discussion of wired pairs in comparison to wireless isn't that unreasonable, especially considering we're talking about products in comparable price ranges.

Tl;dr: It's within scope of the thread title/theme


----------



## BigZ12

miserybeforethemusic said:


> How do you know if you're "there yet" if you don't compare against some sort of reference?
> 
> Part of this journey involved some of us being willing to make sonic sacrifices for the convenience of TWS, but there are some areas in which that gap is narrowing. The occasional discussion of wired pairs in comparison to wireless isn't that unreasonable, especially considering we're talking about products in comparable price ranges.
> 
> Tl;dr: It's within scope of the thread title/theme


Don't agree. Many discussions with no comparison with TWS at all. The post before I wrote:

"Yeah, I also did a bit of tip rolling on the P1. The stems on them are just so short, it is hard to get a good fit. I found that the best fit/sound for me was the Final Type E tips. I didn't like the foamies as much because, while it did boost the bass a bit, it took too much away from the detail retrieval for me (which is one of the things that set them apart for me)."

What has that to do with TWS vs wired?


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

BigZ12 said:


> Don't agree. Many discussions with no comparison with TWS at all. The post before I wrote:
> 
> "Yeah, I also did a bit of tip rolling on the P1. The stems on them are just so short, it is hard to get a good fit. I found that the best fit/sound for me was the Final Type E tips. I didn't like the foamies as much because, while it did boost the bass a bit, it took too much away from the detail retrieval for me (which is one of the things that set them apart for me)."
> 
> What has that to do with TWS vs wired?


Because if all everybody talks about is TWS and we never provide a basis for comparison, the general perspective is that they're _as good as_ wired, which imo they're not.

Are you expecting us to create an echo chamber because you don't like the course of this discussion? Do you have any authority to direct this conversation?


----------



## tinyman392

SemiAudiophile said:


> If they sound anything like the ER4's I'm all in! 😁


I’m not sure why they’d sound like the ER4s?  I may have missed it I guess, did someone say they sound that way?  I love the design of their case though.  


BigZ12 said:


> Why so much talk of wired IEM's in here right now?


I’ve actually adapted many of my wired IEMs to BT and TWS


----------



## BigZ12

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Because if all everybody talks about is TWS and we never provide a basis for comparison, the general perspective is that they're _as good as_ wired, which imo they're not.
> 
> Are you expecting us to create an echo chamber because you don't like the course of this discussion? Do you have any authority to direct this conversation?


Do I have any authority to direct this conversation? Are you for real? 
I just posted my opinion based on reading a lot of posts recently, where I felt you didn't "comply" to the topic of the thread. 

After you and a couple of others new members "hijacked" this thread, (posting 425 posts since Feb...), I've actually lost interest in reading this every day, like I used to before.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic (Apr 3, 2021)

tinyman392 said:


> I’ve actually adapted many of my wired IEMs to BT and TWS


Thank you for the rational answer. All it takes is something like this and that wired pair is now a TWS. The tip discussion would then be fully warranted


BigZ12 said:


> Do I have any authority to direct this conversation? Are you for real?
> I just posted my opinion based on reading a lot of posts recently, where I felt you didn't "comply" to the topic of the thread.
> 
> After you and a couple of others new members "hijacked" this thread, (posting 425 posts since Feb...), I've actually lost interest in reading this every day, like I used to before.


Your opinion comes across as indignance. Do not expect to come into a conversation without tact and expect to receive it. Just because you're faceless on the internet does not excuse you from common courtesy.

Congratulations for losing interest. I do not exist to make your life more interesting.

For what it's worth, only my username is new. You really should work on being less judgmental.


----------



## BigZ12

tinyman392 said:


> I’ve actually adapted many of my wired IEMs to BT and TWS


I agree, when talking about for example the Fiio UTWS3, it's well within the topic.
Been thinking about buying that myself, when it's in stock again.
What IEM to use them with, I will discuss in another thread...


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

I keep forgetting about the ignore button.

Anyway, have been spending the morning with the 400BTs just watching video reviews on YouTube and I finally found something these things uniquely do that the other sets don't. I really love the way voices sound on these, but it's awfully confusing how only those vocal timbres seem to feel natural. If they're boxy/nasal at all, it didn't seem apparent to me, especially when compared to its own genre. I could see these being a great choice for the opera/singer-songwriter listeners out there. Shame I don't think they're as competent on rock/metal, which is primarily where I spend my time right now.

I like them more than I did before. I still don't think I quite understand them yet.


----------



## samandhi

BigZ12 said:


> I agree, when talking about for example the Fiio UTWS3, it's well within the topic.
> Been thinking about buying that myself, when it's in stock again.
> What IEM to use them with, I will discuss in another thread...


And ironically, you have spent the last several posts complaining (off topic) about others doing the very thing you are doing. I'm sorry if you find no interest in anything other than TWS, but as @miserybeforethemusic mentioned, it is hard to answer the very title of this thread without some a/b'ing, which include IEMs. I AM buying the UTWS3 when it is in again, and will be using them on the P1 (the IEMs that I was discussing). If you don't find it relevant then I don't know what to tell you. 

Please feel free to not read this thread anymore, if you aren't finding any interest at all?! To be perfectly honest, we will move on with or without you, or your approval. Hate to be brutal about it, but there you are!

Meanwhile back at the batcave:
I have found that I am a total duma**! I said that when I switched from the normal tips I was using with the MT to large stock (to see how they did) that I started having issues with my left bud not seating all the way (like @Canabuc was having with his new pair), and not charging. Well........ it was because I was using a right side wing on the left bud... Now that I discovered this, and put the correct one on, I have 0 issues of any kind with the MT (as it was before I stoopeeded out). DOH! 

Also whoever recommended me to get the Nuarl N10, can you tell me what is different and what has improved, and maybe even what is worse about them? Now that I find the N6Pro to sound very good, I am interested (if they are indeed better).


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

samandhi said:


> Meanwhile back at the batcave:
> I have found that I am a total duma**! I said that when I switched from the normal tips I was using with the MT to large stock (to see how they did) that I started having issues with my left bud not seating all the way (like @Canabuc was having with his new pair), and not charging. Well........ it was because I was using a right side wing on the left bud... Now that I discovered this, and put the correct one on, I have 0 issues of any kind with the MT (as it was before I stoopeeded out). DOH!
> 
> Also whoever recommended me to get the Nuarl N10, can you tell me what is different and what has improved, and maybe even what is worse about them? Now that I find the N6Pro to sound very good, I am interested (if they are indeed better).


That case is so darn picky with the stock wing/tip combo. Could only imagine how much weirder it was with the fins on opposite sides! Have you noticed the notch the fin is supposed to fit over on the bud? That's my dummy check each time. Won't fit over properly if it's reversed.


----------



## erockg

I'm all for the IEM's with an adapter.  As some of you already know, I'm obsessed with the Blessing 2's and the Fostex TM2.  Match made in heaven.  Now, if you come on this thread asking about the best pizza, we'll have an issue, obviously.


----------



## tinyman392

erockg said:


> I'm all for the IEM's with an adapter.  As some of you already know, I'm obsessed with the Blessing 2's and the Fostex TM2.  Match made in heaven.  Now, if you come on this thread asking about the best pizza, we'll have an issue, obviously.



Wait, so does pineapple belong on pizza?


----------



## erockg

tinyman392 said:


> Wait, so does pineapple belong on pizza?


Awful.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

tinyman392 said:


> Wait, so does pineapple belong on pizza?





erockg said:


> Awful.


Discussions about pineapple in close proximity to red sauce have more of a parallel than I think you might have intended there hahahaha. Sounds like we could be sparking a sound signature debate if we wanted to give this a TWS spin...

_Which TWS, so far, has been everybody's pineapple on pizza?_

For me, I suppose it's the AirPods Pro. They're a quantity I don't quite understand, but like a true Hawaiian, their attempt to handle all of the major flavors in one slice has to be commended anyway. They've got great ANC/HearThrough and good (though not great) sound quality, but there's still going to be people out there completely offended by the flavor.


----------



## samandhi

miserybeforethemusic said:


> That case is so darn picky with the stock wing/tip combo. Could only imagine how much weirder it was with the fins on opposite sides! Have you noticed the notch the fin is supposed to fit over on the bud? That's my dummy check each time. Won't fit over properly if it's reversed.


Well, that is just the thing, apparently I must have changed them in the dark(ish), and somehow it fit, notch and all. I suppose that since it was the small ones, I probably didn't notice it in my ear either... so the fin itself would angle (45 degrees or so) to the right, instead of the left we'll say for argument sake. Boy do I feel pretty stupid, and am glad I didn't do something drastic like write an email to CA about the issue. haha


erockg said:


> Awful.


Now there is something I can totally agree with. Pineapple does not belong on pizza, nor should pizza ever be considered a dessert (not that is tastes bad in that form though).


----------



## Canabuc

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Discussions about pineapple in close proximity to red sauce have more of a parallel than I think you might have intended there hahahaha. Sounds like we could be sparking a sound signature debate if we wanted to give this a TWS spin...
> 
> _Which TWS, so far, has been everybody's pineapple on pizza?_
> 
> For me, I suppose it's the AirPods Pro. They're a quantity I don't quite understand, but like a true Hawaiian, their attempt to handle all of the major flavors in one slice has to be commended anyway. They've got great ANC/HearThrough and good (though not great) sound quality, but there's still going to be people out there completely offended by the flavor.



Pineapple 🍍 does not belong on pizza. Maybe we should devote a thread to discuss the origins of the pineapple? Hawaifi? Does it come with active hunger cancellation?


----------



## samandhi

Canabuc said:


> Pineapple 🍍 does not belong on pizza. Maybe we should devote a thread to discuss the origins of the pineapple? Hawaifi? Does it come with active hunger cancellation?


ROFL!


----------



## Canabuc

My MT with stock tip fit well but the seal doesn't hold up to a smile or lying down. Do like the comfort.
Using medium left large right and largest fins.
I would love to get the final E TWS but at the price and not knowing the size and needing different size for each ear, the tips will cost a 1/3 the price of the buds. 
Any other suggestions? Or does anyone want to sell or lend me any final e TWS tips to try?


----------



## Canabuc

Also on another note have decided to RMA mine. Rather than return though did toy with idea of saving the money towards the kef or Devialet when they are released.

Decided to switch back to black color. I think I prefer darker buds especially given my bedroom covers and sheets are white and if I put case down sometimes they get lost.
Also once you go black.....


----------



## Canabuc

One more MT question.
If I shoven the tips deep in my ear holes the seal is better though this feels less natural. Now I am not sure if inserting it right. Feels like I am pushing them in far enough that the body of the bud is flush.
Is this right?


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

samandhi said:


> Well, that is just the thing, apparently I must have changed them in the dark(ish), and somehow it fit, notch and all. I suppose that since it was the small ones, I probably didn't notice it in my ear either... so the fin itself would angle (45 degrees or so) to the right, instead of the left we'll say for argument sake. Boy do I feel pretty stupid, and am glad I didn't do something drastic like write an email to CA about the issue. haha
> 
> Now there is something I can totally agree with. Pineapple does not belong on pizza, nor should pizza ever be considered a dessert (not that is tastes bad in that form though).


I'm just trying to wrap my head around how they managed to stay locked behind the antihelix if that's the case, but I could see how easy it is to get them backwards. Was spinning my wheels for a while until I noticed the notch, so figured I'd pass on the word


Canabuc said:


> Pineapple 🍍 does not belong on pizza. Maybe we should devote a thread to discuss the origins of the pineapple? Hawaifi? Does it come with active hunger cancellation?


I merely said I understood its appeal from a culinary standpoint and attempted to make a relevant comparison. Have had to eat enough of those during pizza nights on the submarine that I don't mind them all too much (we had good cooks...some bad ones, too). Will I ever willingly order another one again? No thank you.

My stunning self-control has resulted in the purchase of a HiBy R5 Saber and WH3 from MusicTeck; figured it'd be a ripe opportunity to test their ecosystem and UAT implementation. Strangely enough, the WH3 look an awful lot like the Soundcore Liberty Air 2 Pro, so I have a good idea of what to expect with the way they'll fit in my ears. Hopefully they feel a little more premium as well.


Canabuc said:


> One more MT question.
> If I shoven the tips deep in my ear holes the seal is better though this feels less natural. Now I am not sure if inserting it right. Feels like I am pushing them in far enough that the body of the bud is flush.
> Is this right?


I don't think so. If you have the outer shell flush with your ear, the bottom microphone gets blocked. Here's what mine ends up looking like when inserted:


And, by the looks of it, I might want to go up a size in fin. These don't budge, though.


----------



## bladefd

erockg said:


> I'm all for the IEM's with an adapter.  As some of you already know, I'm obsessed with the Blessing 2's and the Fostex TM2.  Match made in heaven.  Now, if you come on this thread asking about the best pizza, we'll have an issue, obviously.


Adapters still kind of take away the convenience of TWS tbh. I thought about it, but quickly eliminated it. The reason is that I would buy a TWS because I want nothing sticking out of the ears. Even if the adapter loops around the ears and connects, the full convenience of TWS is still missing imo.


----------



## Canabuc

miserybeforethemusic said:


> I'm just trying to wrap my head around how they managed to stay locked behind the antihelix if that's the case, but I could see how easy it is to get them backwards. Was spinning my wheels for a while until I noticed the notch, so figured I'd pass on the word
> 
> I merely said I understood its appeal from a culinary standpoint and attempted to make a relevant comparison. Have had to eat enough of those during pizza nights on the submarine that I don't mind them all too much (we had good cooks...some bad ones, too). Will I ever willingly order another one again? No thank you.
> 
> ...


So looks like top of bud is near flush and bottom is half way out of rubber and front of but is right against tragus and alsmot flush with it. That seems to be my most comfortable fit, bit a smile and the seal is lost but reseals after.

That is why I am debating what other tips would keep seal with same comfort. Think the final e might be good but don't know how tall they are and which diameter would be best choice. Given cost and shipping times from MTM I don't want to gamble.


----------



## rhsauer

kolbo said:


> I’m comparing them to my 85t. Large difference.
> On the other hand, passive isolation is better on the MW08. So if they are both off (no ANC or ambient) the MW08 blocks more.
> I reached out to the company. We will see what they say. Love the sound so far though.


So jealous of you guys who already received the MW08s. The reviews are also all over the place on the effectiveness of the ANC. I do think both ANC and sound are dependent on fit, and small differences in fit can make a big difference to both.  Can’t wait to find out myself on Wednesday.


----------



## Luke Skywalker

miserybeforethemusic said:


> How do you know if you're "there yet" if you don't compare against some sort of reference?
> 
> Part of this journey involved some of us being willing to make sonic sacrifices for the convenience of TWS, but there are some areas in which that gap is narrowing. The occasional discussion of wired pairs in comparison to wireless isn't that unreasonable, especially considering we're talking about products in comparable price ranges.
> 
> Tl;dr: It's within scope of the thread title/theme


Totally agree!  I’ve been thinking of getting a Bluetooth cable for my JH Lola’s and I’m loving the info everyone is sharing.  

I picked up the JH one but there was no bass adjustment like they have on the normal and balanced cables.  Tried to return it and they never replied to my emails


----------



## Luke Skywalker

BigZ12 said:


> Do I have any authority to direct this conversation? Are you for real?
> I just posted my opinion based on reading a lot of posts recently, where I felt you didn't "comply" to the topic of the thread.
> 
> After you and a couple of others new members "hijacked" this thread, (posting 425 posts since Feb...), I've actually lost interest in reading this every day, like I used to before.


Suggest you unwatch the thread dude. Button at top


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

Canabuc said:


> That is why I am debating what other tips would keep seal with same comfort. Think the final e might be good but don't know how tall they are and which diameter would be best choice. Given cost and shipping times from MTM I don't want to gamble.


Well if it helps you think of it in terms of feel, the Final are a really soft silicone that conforms well to a surface (wide, narrow: it's flexible). I have pretty high confidence a L would do you well and, yes, I'm aware it's pretty expensive to buy these 2 sets at a time. Makes more sense if you're swapping out tips on multiple pairs at once. They do have a LL, but I don't think you're going to need it.

Conversely, the Azla XELASTEC ones allegedly also conform to the surface of your ear, but in more of a semi-permanent sort of way, which I think is kinda cool. Just haven't gotten around to testing them myself yet, but there's plenty of threads on HF that have mentioned them; can't remember where I first read about them.


Luke Skywalker said:


> Totally agree!  I’ve been thinking of getting a Bluetooth cable for my JH Lola’s and I’m loving the info everyone is sharing.
> 
> I picked up the JH one but there was no bass adjustment like they have on the normal and balanced cables.  Tried to return it and they never replied to my emails


That's a little weird about the lack of replies; thought Jerry was all about the customer experience. Bummer about those connectors.


----------



## erockg (Apr 3, 2021)

bladefd said:


> Adapters still kind of take away the convenience of TWS tbh. I thought about it, but quickly eliminated it. The reason is that I would buy a TWS because I want nothing sticking out of the ears. Even if the adapter loops around the ears and connects, the full convenience of TWS is still missing imo.


The funny thing about it is I’ve had three different true wireless headphone adapters like the Fostex and the Fostex by far is the best. It doesn’t really even sit around your ear. The IEM holds it in the air ever so slightly so it feels like you’re wearing nothing at all. At least with my ears. I was down this road a long time ago and then crawled back somehow. So I totally get where you’re coming from.


----------



## SemiAudiophile

tinyman392 said:


> I’m not sure why they’d sound like the ER4s?  I may have missed it I guess, did someone say they sound that way?  I love the design of their case though.


Well they say the Tevi sounds like the closest thing to wireless ER2's. (Crinnacle did anyway) 😜


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

SemiAudiophile said:


> Well they say the Tevi sounds like the closest thing to wireless ER2's. (Crinnacle did anyway) 😜


I think his ears have been pretty reliable. Currently using an EQ preset of his on a (gasp) _wired set of IEMs. _While it definitely takes some getting used to, especially with regard to the upper-midrange and subbass treatment, I think he's pretty tonally on point.

Did he specify what about the Tevi reminded him of the ER2?


----------



## Canabuc

miserybeforethemusic said:


> I think his ears have been pretty reliable. Currently using an EQ preset of his on a (gasp) _wired set of IEMs. _While it definitely takes some getting used to, especially with regard to the upper-midrange and subbass treatment, I think he's pretty tonally on point.
> 
> Did he specify what about the Tevi reminded him of the ER2?


Although he ranked both galaxy buds pro and plus very highly and said pros are among best iem wired or otherwise he has heard.

I like the sound but found the mids were recessed and treble too strong on the pro and the treble shrill on the plus myself. So I don't think his preferred tonal signature fits my own.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

Canabuc said:


> Although he ranked both galaxy buds pro and plus very highly and said pros are among best iem wired or otherwise he has heard.
> 
> I like the sound but found the mids were recessed and treble too strong on the pro and the treble shrill on the plus myself. So I don't think his preferred tonal signature fits my own.


I can understand it being a _different strokes _thing.

Feels like every few years, my preferred signature changes as well, so I understand I'll disagree with some of his higher-ranked items. Keep in mind that ear shape can make a huge difference, so you two might have different <insert technical jargon term about inner-ear anatomy and bends and stuff here>, which would throw off the frequency response. Unfortunate nature of the beast.

I still can't do Samsung, so have no experience with any of the Galaxy lineup. Will gladly take your word for it.


----------



## bladefd

Canabuc said:


> Although he ranked both galaxy buds pro and plus very highly and said pros are among best iem wired or otherwise he has heard.
> 
> I like the sound but found the mids were recessed and treble too strong on the pro and the treble shrill on the plus myself. So I don't think his preferred tonal signature fits my own.


Do the Galaxy buds pro really have that great sound? 

I guess it doesn't matter now. I refuse to blow any more money on TWS. Not until summer of 2022.


----------



## DJTobes

erockg said:


> Could be.  I switched mine out for the XL tips but may experiment with others from my collection.


Hey,

First post _ever_ here so be gentle yeah‽ Long time lurker though 

I've also purchased the MW08's. Sound quality based on my very _first_ impression is a little too much on the mid highs but WAY better than AirPods Pro in the bass whilst not being over whelming either which I'm super impressed with, when it needs bass it's there, when it doesn't it isn't. 

Here's a question for fellow early adopters/lucky owners of the MW08. Have you managed to successfully update the firmware via the iOS app yet? No matter what I try, in-ear, out of my ears but next to each other, resetting them back to factory, deleting and then resetting the Bluetooth iOS pairing, you get the idea... after about 15-20 minutes always the same ‘The update was unsuccessful. Please try again.’ screen appears. I thought I'd ask here just in case you had any tips.

As IEM's go, got to be honest, I'm very impressed indeed. I've currently own Sennheiser HD700's, Beyer DT 880 Pro's, used to own the Momentum Wireless, still own the AirPods Pro (for convenience more than anything) so I thought I'd try the MW08's.....very impressed indeed. I'll need more time with them for sure to form a more solid opinion but for now... yeah! Very good! Surprisingly, I had to change the tips for one size down to make a better fit, usually it's one size up in other IEM's I've used. 

Apart from all of the above waffle.... hello fellow head-fi friends. Glad to be here.


----------



## erockg

DJTobes said:


> Hey,
> 
> First post _ever_ here so be gentle yeah‽ Long time lurker though
> 
> ...


What phone?  I'm on an iPhone 12.  No issues at all over here.  It went smooth.  Can you try with another device?  I know the M&D app was updated a few times the past week for OTA update tweaks.  I'm sure you're on the most recent update.  Outside of the usual app install, delete, reboot stuff you've most likely already done, email M&D, they've always been responsive.  I love them.  Love the bass.  Better than the last versions.  Can say that my ears have the same mid-high issue, but everyone hears different.  I listen to a lot of hard rock/heavy metal and Maiden's Fear of the Dark sounds just awesome at this exact moment  \m/


----------



## Canabuc

bladefd said:


> Do the Galaxy buds pro really have that great sound?
> 
> I guess it doesn't matter now. I refuse to blow any more money on TWS. Not until summer of 2022.


I didn't think so. They were clear detailed and crisp. But too treble focused and lacked mid range.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

Canabuc said:


> I didn't think so. They were clear detailed and crisp. But too treble focused and lacked mid range.


Sure that's not the basshead in you speaking?


----------



## SemiAudiophile (Apr 3, 2021)

miserybeforethemusic said:


> I think his ears have been pretty reliable. Currently using an EQ preset of his on a (gasp) _wired set of IEMs. _While it definitely takes some getting used to, especially with regard to the upper-midrange and subbass treatment, I think he's pretty tonally on point.
> 
> Did he specify what about the Tevi reminded him of the ER2?



Referring to his list of ranked IEMs.





https://crinacle.com/rankings/iems/

I actually had the ER4SR along with the Bluetooth module in my shopping cart, but then canceled and went with the P1 last minute. 

I don't think I'd like sticking them that deep in my ear plus didn't like that I had to buy a separate Bluetooth module just to use them wirelessly.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

SemiAudiophile said:


> Referring to his list of ranked IEMs.
> 
> 
> https://crinacle.com/rankings/iems/


So based on a diffuse-field-esque tuning. Fair enough.


----------



## kolbo

erockg said:


> What phone?  I'm on an iPhone 12.  No issues at all over here.  It went smooth.  Can you try with another device?  I know the M&D app was updated a few times the past week for OTA update tweaks.  I'm sure you're on the most recent update.  Outside of the usual app install, delete, reboot stuff you've most likely already done, email M&D, they've always been responsive.  I love them.  Love the bass.  Better than the last versions.  Can say that my ears have the same mid-high issue, but everyone hears different.  I listen to a lot of hard rock/heavy metal and Maiden's Fear of the Dark sounds just awesome at this exact moment  \m/


I have an iPhone 12 Pro Max and updated with no issue. But that was before the last two app updates.


----------



## Canabuc

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Sure that's not the basshead in you speaking?


No the bass was not an issue. The recesses mids and overly bright treble was.
It has nearly the opposite issues to the 85t. Which is mid forward and lacks treble.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

I seem to have found a way to have a good amount of fun with the Melomania Touch, especially if you don't mind having fun with EQ...

HiBy's App (I'm using it on Android, assuming there is _not_ an iOS equivalent) has MSEB (Mage Sound Eight Ball)! Weird name, awesome EQ. The terms can take some getting used to, but the EQ shaping is pretty infectious. You can get the bass on the MTs to extend suuuuuuuper deep, to the point where drum kicks are punching your skull.

Way too early to show any settings, but I highly encourage you to explore. Man, that thing is fun. Bet it'll be awesome on the R5 Saber.


----------



## tinyman392

SemiAudiophile said:


> Well they say the Tevi sounds like the closest thing to wireless ER2's. (Crinnacle did anyway) 😜


Ah, the midrange and treble is Eytmotic like...  Basically a bass boosted DF curve...  Very similar to Harman, though Harman tones down the upper mids and treble a little bit.


----------



## samandhi

miserybeforethemusic said:


> I seem to have found a way to have a good amount of fun with the Melomania Touch, especially if you don't mind having fun with EQ...
> 
> HiBy's App (I'm using it on Android, assuming there is _not_ an iOS equivalent) has MSEB (Mage Sound Eight Ball)! Weird name, awesome EQ. The terms can take some getting used to, but the EQ shaping is pretty infectious. You can get the bass on the MTs to extend suuuuuuuper deep, to the point where drum kicks are punching your skull.
> 
> Way too early to show any settings, but I highly encourage you to explore. Man, that thing is fun. Bet it'll be awesome on the R5 Saber.


Looks like it didn't take you long to pull the trigger on a shiny new (good) DAP. I just don't think that you can go wrong at all with any of the current mid-tier DAPs, so congratz to you. 

I also find the Hiby app to be very good, and when asked for recommendations will usually mention the big three (Neutron, UAPP, and Hiby) apps. All good for different (and maybe even overlapping) things.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

samandhi said:


> Looks like it didn't take you long to pull the trigger on a shiny new (good) DAP. I just don't think that you can go wrong at all with any of the current mid-tier DAPs, so congratz to you.
> 
> I also find the Hiby app to be very good, and when asked for recommendations will usually mention the big three (Neutron, UAPP, and Hiby) apps. All good for different (and maybe even overlapping) things.


Stress-buy hahaha. Children were extra stir-crazy today.

Thanks much for the suggestion; before you'd mentioned it, I honestly hadn't made the mental connection that the same EQ would be available on the regular Android app. Runs really well on the OnePlus 8T and it's been a lot of fun tweaking the overall sound signature in ways that are usually pretty difficult otherwise. Reminds me of the JetEffect stuff Cowon's known for. They give you a huge bandwidth to work with, too. Didn't think I had to make too many adjustments

I was so close to getting the Cayin N3 Pro because the prospect of a mini N8 sounded awesome, but think HiBy ended up winning out in terms of OS implementation and because I could test UAT with HiBy's dual-driver TWS. Not sure if you've looked into them, but the idea that you can adjust the crossover point between the BA and DD sounds really cool as well, so now I'm really excited. Still don't think anybody should pass on either the N3 Pro or the DX160 if they're interested. There's so many good options, it's hard to really narrow it down.


----------



## DJTobes

kolbo said:


> I have an iPhone 12 Pro Max and updated with no issue. But that was before the last two app updates.


It must be something to do with the new (updated) M&D Connect app then, I've deleted it, and reinstalled it. Same deal, after about fifteen minutes, the "unsuccessful" error appears again. Oh well, not a great new user experience, but I'm confident it'll be resolved.... hopefully! 

EDIT: I also have the iPhone 12 Pro Max, totally up to date iOS version wise as well.


----------



## erockg

DJTobes said:


> It must be something to do with the new (updated) M&D Connect app then, I've deleted it, and reinstalled it. Same deal, after about fifteen minutes, the "unsuccessful" error appears again. Oh well, not a great new user experience, but I'm confident it'll be resolved.... hopefully!
> 
> EDIT: I also have the iPhone 12 Pro Max, totally up to date iOS version wise as well.


Very strange. I just got mine yesterday but my app was updated to the most recent app and I had zero issues. Could just be luck of the draw. Hopefully their support will help. I would definitely try finding another device to see if you have the same issue. Then at least you can QC and know that it was the app and not the device.


----------



## Canabuc

miserybeforethemusic said:


> I seem to have found a way to have a good amount of fun with the Melomania Touch, especially if you don't mind having fun with EQ...
> 
> HiBy's App (I'm using it on Android, assuming there is _not_ an iOS equivalent) has MSEB (Mage Sound Eight Ball)! Weird name, awesome EQ. The terms can take some getting used to, but the EQ shaping is pretty infectious. You can get the bass on the MTs to extend suuuuuuuper deep, to the point where drum kicks are punching your skull.
> 
> Way too early to show any settings, but I highly encourage you to explore. Man, that thing is fun. Bet it'll be awesome on the R5 Saber.


 the app works with different buds?


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

Canabuc said:


> the app works with different buds?


Should be any BT-connected audio device, as far as I understand. It's just not system-wide.


----------



## Canabuc

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Should be any BT-connected audio device, as far as I understand. It's just not system-wide.


So wouldn't work with steamed music.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

Canabuc said:


> So wouldn't work with steamed music.


I'm afraid it won't even handle ironed music.


----------



## Canabuc

miserybeforethemusic said:


> I'm afraid it won't even handle ironed music.


Lol. I swipe type and sometimes I don't pay close attention. But will it do YouTube music or just audio directly connected


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

Canabuc said:


> Lol. I swipe type and sometimes I don't pay close attention. But will it do YouTube music or just audio directly connected


Looks like it's only whatever you have stored on the phone or whatever is HiBy-linked to it.


----------



## SemiAudiophile

Put on my GT220's last night and listening to them this morning. I still enjoy them very much. I gotta say the great thing about TWS is not having to worry about dac/amp pairing and wondering if you're driving them properly. They just work as intended.  

I don't get the full MQA unfold, but honestly I can't even tell.


----------



## Luke Skywalker

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Well if it helps you think of it in terms of feel, the Final are a really soft silicone that conforms well to a surface (wide, narrow: it's flexible). I have pretty high confidence a L would do you well and, yes, I'm aware it's pretty expensive to buy these 2 sets at a time. Makes more sense if you're swapping out tips on multiple pairs at once. They do have a LL, but I don't think you're going to need it.
> 
> Conversely, the Azla XELASTEC ones allegedly also conform to the surface of your ear, but in more of a semi-permanent sort of way, which I think is kinda cool. Just haven't gotten around to testing them myself yet, but there's plenty of threads on HF that have mentioned them; can't remember where I first read about them.
> 
> That's a little weird about the lack of replies; thought Jerry was all about the customer experience. Bummer about those connectors.


Great info on the tips thanks. I think I’ll go with the M/ML/L‘s and see how they fit.

But why did you put this on this thread - are those tips wireless?? (Hee hee!)

Yeah, I wouldn’t say that JH is the most responsive company but man, the Lola’s...  imagine going from mainstream sub-$100 gear directly to those. I laid on the couch listening to them for hours when I first plugged them in to my R6 Pro. 

I should just sell the JH BT cable but I’m too lazy to do it. Really this hobby isn’t really for you if you aren’t willing to spend some $$$ experimenting with different DAPs, cables, tips... 

thanks again


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

Luke Skywalker said:


> Great info on the tips thanks. I think I’ll go with the M/ML/L‘s and see how they fit.
> 
> But why did you put this on this thread - are those tips wireless?? (Hee hee!)
> 
> ...


Sounds like the SE530, my first big-boy pair. It was so easy to get lost in tip- and filter-rolling, not realizing at the time how ridiculously mid-centric that set was. Knowing what the Lola is capable of, that would definitely have been a major jump in terms of overall quality. Think you made a great choice.

Also just checked the tips for wires. None found. Think we're good.

Tried sleeping with the JBLs last night. Went on an Easter Bud hunt when I woke up, but managed to find everything. Thank God I don't have black sheets.


----------



## howdy

anyone dealt with Bose warranty claims? My sons 5 month old Bose QC TW right side earbud is super quite and when you use the right side by itself its quite and sounds blown.


----------



## erockg

howdy said:


> anyone dealt with Bose warranty claims? My sons 5 month old Bose QC TW right side earbud is super quite and when you use the right side by itself its quite and sounds blown.


For their first Gen Sleepbuds and they were spot on.  Called them directly instead of emailing and they were fast and responsive.


----------



## howdy

Thanks! We will call them tomorrow.


----------



## Luke Skywalker

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Sounds like the SE530, my first big-boy pair. It was so easy to get lost in tip- and filter-rolling, not realizing at the time how ridiculously mid-centric that set was. Knowing what the Lola is capable of, that would definitely have been a major jump in terms of overall quality. Think you made a great choice.
> 
> Also just checked the tips for wires. None found. Think we're good.
> 
> Tried sleeping with the JBLs last night. Went on an Easter Bud hunt when I woke up, but managed to find everything. Thank God I don't have black sheets.


Wow those SE530s look sweet 

Ya I got the Lola’s maybe 2 years ago on the advice of @MaxwellDot. He took a lot of time to help me figure out the best brand and model for my music preferences.  Classical and female vocals sound absolutely stunning.

As a matter of fact, i‘m watching the Snyder cut of Justice League right now on my projector, listening with the Lola’s. I have them plugged into my HiBy R6 Pro, which is connected to my Nvidia shield with a 15 foot USB cable.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

Luke Skywalker said:


> Wow those SE530s look sweet
> 
> Ya I got the Lola’s maybe 2 years ago on the advice of @MaxwellDot. He took a lot of time to help me figure out the best brand and model for my music preferences.  Classical and female vocals sound absolutely stunning.
> 
> As a matter of fact, i‘m watching the Snyder cut of Justice League right now on my projector, listening with the Lola’s. I have them plugged into my HiBy R6 Pro, which is connected to my Nvidia shield with a 15 foot USB cable.


Sounds pretty intense, bud. SE530s were all right; great for their intended use as a stage monitor, but I was young/dumb and the market hadn't exploded nearly as much as it has now. There were only a handful of players outside the mainstream at that point.


----------



## assassin10000

erockg said:


> The funny thing about it is I’ve had three different true wireless headphone adapters like the Fostex and the Fostex by far is the best. It doesn’t really even sit around your ear. The IEM holds it in the air ever so slightly so it feels like you’re wearing nothing at all. At least with my ears. I was down this road a long time ago and then crawled back somehow. So I totally get where you’re coming from.


Have you tried the Fiio UTWS3? They're in consideration for my next TWS'ish buy.

Or maybe a pair of the Earin A-3's. Kinda interested in their form factor. But not sure they'd be comfortable in my ears.


----------



## chinmie

assassin10000 said:


> Have you tried the Fiio UTWS3? They're in consideration for my next TWS'ish buy.
> 
> Or maybe a pair of the Earin A-3's. Kinda interested in their form factor. But not sure they'd be comfortable in my ears.



are there reviews comparing the utws3 with the bt20s pro? 

I've been rockin' earbuds type tws more and more lately around the house and exercising, only resorting to IEM types when i go out or don't want to be disturbed. 

been using the Vooplay, Buds Live, and Vivo Neo in rotation (as well as the trusty old X12 for podcast and youtube)


----------



## samandhi

assassin10000 said:


> Have you tried the Fiio UTWS3? They're in consideration for my next TWS'ish buy.
> 
> Or maybe a pair of the Earin A-3's. Kinda interested in their form factor. But not sure they'd be comfortable in my ears.


@tinyman392 has both the UTWS3 and the TRN adaptors. He can tell you more about it. I plan on getting it as soon as it is in stock in the US.


----------



## erockg (Apr 5, 2021)

assassin10000 said:


> Have you tried the Fiio UTWS3? They're in consideration for my next TWS'ish buy.
> 
> Or maybe a pair of the Earin A-3's. Kinda interested in their form factor. But not sure they'd be comfortable in my ears.


Been trying to get the UTWS3 but they’ve been out of stock here in the USA.  Soon I hope.

I love my Earin A-3.  Super tiny and they just sit in my ears sort of like the first Gen AirPods without the stalks.  That said, the Earin’s feel more secure in my ears and sound better due to a larger driver.  They sent me a coupon code for the silver version: SPRING_15OFF.  Not sure if it’s still live but worth a shot.


----------



## tinyman392

assassin10000 said:


> Have you tried the Fiio UTWS3? They're in consideration for my next TWS'ish buy.
> 
> Or maybe a pair of the Earin A-3's. Kinda interested in their form factor. But not sure they'd be comfortable in my ears.



I‘m happy with the quality that Fiio gives with the UTWS3.  What would be the memory wire section of the UTWS3 is kind of stiff, so this makes the MMCX version a bit more comfortable over the 2-pin variant since you do get that one degree of freedom.  There is also the volume issue which can be annoying where it’ll randomly set the volume to 100% on launch (iOS 14.4 and 14.5 beta).  I also do have the BT20s Pro as well.  I was originally going to return them, but they pair better with the P1 than the UTWS3 did (my Euclid paired far better with the UTWS3 than the BT20s 🤷‍♂️).  



chinmie said:


> are there reviews comparing the utws3 with the bt20s pro?
> 
> I've been rockin' earbuds type tws more and more lately around the house and exercising, only resorting to IEM types when i go out or don't want to be disturbed.
> 
> been using the Vooplay, Buds Live, and Vivo Neo in rotation (as well as the trusty old X12 for podcast and youtube)



I should probably write a quick review of the two as they kind of have their pros and cons.


----------



## Caipirina (Apr 5, 2021)

tinyman392 said:


> Wait, so does pineapple belong on pizza?


resounding YES !

Speaking of PineAPPle


----------



## Thesonofkrypton

excited to read on walkmanblog that the wf-1000xm4 has passed fcc certification.  Hoping the shape is what we've seen in leaks, would probably solve most fit issues


----------



## Typo2 (Apr 5, 2021)

So my mw08 arrived. First impression, smaller than expected in a good way. Its refreshing to sound so neutral out of the box, maybe a touch warm...maybe more intimate than kef/encox more listening needed but happy so far. Volume seems low compared to all my other tws. Takes foam tips that fit in the case, finally one where I dont have to take the tips off. The buds scream quality, the case and buds build/materials are excellent. Its a battle between these and my EQ'd Enco X for my fav tws. For ANC I expect these should beat my Enco X as Ive got the foams on, unless the ANC sucks. Appears to be no multipoint or quick device switching like the oppos which is a little dissapointing. . Didnt plan it but in the picture I added to show relative case size top to bottom is my order of fav so far. The mu3s case is huge compared to the rest. Will report back later after more listening and ANC tests. Initial impressions very positive, very premium.


----------



## BigZ12

Typo2 said:


> So my mw08 arrived.
> Volume seems low compared to all my other tws.


Thanks. I've been interested in these, but a little worried about the volume as you mentioned. 
I mostly use my Senn' MTW2, and I feel the volume is low on those as well. (noticable lower than both Lypertek Tevi and Airpods Pro..)
Do you/anyone else have the possibility to compare volume between MTW2 and MW08? Would the MW08 be a huge upgrade to the MTW2? Worth the $300 price tag?


----------



## assassin10000

tinyman392 said:


> I‘m happy with the quality that Fiio gives with the UTWS3.  What would be the memory wire section of the UTWS3 is kind of stiff, so this makes the MMCX version a bit more comfortable over the 2-pin variant since you do get that one degree of freedom.


I only have MMCX IEM/Buds currently so 2-pin isn't a worry for me.



tinyman392 said:


> There is also the volume issue which can be annoying where it’ll randomly set the volume to 100% on launch (iOS 14.4 and 14.5 beta).


Also a non-issue. I have an Android phone.


----------



## tinyman392

assassin10000 said:


> I only have MMCX IEM/Buds currently so 2-pin isn't a worry for me.
> 
> 
> Also a non-issue. I have an Android phone.


I haven't had a chance to test much on Android.  I bought a Blu phone to update the firmware on the UTWS3 which wasn't so fruitful...  While the phone recognizes the headphones and will play music and audio through them, the Fiio app won't recognize them at all 😢 iOS app recognizes them fine though.


----------



## rhsauer

BigZ12 said:


> Thanks. I've been interested in these, but a little worried about the volume as you mentioned.
> I mostly use my Senn' MTW2, and I feel the volume is low on those as well. (noticable lower than both Lypertek Tevi and Airpods Pro..)
> Do you/anyone else have the possibility to compare volume between MTW2 and MW08? Would the MW08 be a huge upgrade to the MTW2? Worth the $300 price tag?


My MW08s came this morning and I've had a couple of hours with them at this point.  The first hour was spent, as usual, tip rolling until I found what works best for me, which in this case are the XL Spinfit CP360s.  The L included tips fit my left ear perfectly, but were too small for my right ear.  The XL included tips were too tight on both ears and really stuffed up the sound.  I also tried about five other likely tip candidates before settling on the CP360s.  The fit is relatively shallow, but that gives the sound some room to breath and keeps the earphones comfortable.  I'm definitely getting a good seal.  

Sound-wise, these are like a warm hug.  The sound is incredibly rich (without any bass-bleed), yet still nicely detailed (without any harshness).  They're just right.  I'm fine not having an equalizer included in the app, because I can't imagine I'd want to adjust the sound signature at all. My favorite TWS, sound-wise, has been the Jabra 85t, which I find a smidge better than the Sennheiser MTW (1st Gen).  These MW08s are better.  There's no issue with volume from my perspective.  I'm listening now at about 45% on my iPhone, and it's louder than I need.  One of my go-to songs to test new earphones is Eminem's "Love the Way You Lie."  To be honest, I don't even like that song -- but it's got a couple areas (in both Eminem's and Rihanna's sections of the song) that are incredibly dense and complex "walls-of-sound" that all but the very best earphones completely fall down on.  These earphones nail it.  You can imagine how much I'm enjoying songs I actually like.

I haven't had an opportunity to test the ANC in real life.  The NYC subway system is my go-to test bed, and I won't be on the subway until next week.  Since they're a relatively shallow fit, my expectation is that they'll diminish the rumble of the subway (and even city traffic) -- hopefully sufficiently enough to allow me to enjoy some music on my way around town -- but I'm not expecting complete isolation.  I can live with that.  I DID test the ANC while sitting in front of my computer listening to YouTube videos of plane and subway noise.  My preliminary reaction is that the ANC is -- about what I'd expect.  It's not as strong as the Sony's or the APPs, but it makes a difference. 

As reported elsewhere, the earphones are smaller than expected, and look terrific.  There's no multipoint, or fast device switching, but you can hold the multi-touch button to switch devices.  I read elsewhere some speculation that there was no Siri -- but there is.  (Just hold the multi-touch button for three seconds.). And, by the way -- having physical buttons is fantastic. 

A few odds and ends:  I can confirm both AAC and aptX.  (I returned the MW07+ because there was no AAC, and I'm glad M&W included it now.) I obviously haven't had a chance to test the battery yet, but if it's as advertised I'll be very happy.  Finally, I updated the firmware upon opening.  It took two tries on my iPhone 11 Pro Max, but eventually worked fine.

Bottom line:  These are all about the sound, the battery life, and the design.  If the intersection of those three things are what's important to you, these are as good as any earphones you'll find (at the moment).  The ANC is an added bonus, but (as with most TWS), if you're looking for relative silence, you should probably look elsewhere.


----------



## PixelSquish

I sadly returned my Melomania Touch. The sound is truly phenomenal but a couple times one bud didn't charge as it didn't seat perfectly, and then lately having connection issues when taking them out of the case, and least of all but still a little issue, the volume drop to 50% when playing music when they first connect. Will keep an eye on if future firmware fixes these things.



Thesonofkrypton said:


> excited to read on walkmanblog that the wf-1000xm4 has passed fcc certification.  Hoping the shape is what we've seen in leaks, would probably solve most fit issues



excited as well. Looking forward to the specs.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

rhsauer said:


> My MW08s came this morning and I've had a couple of hours with them at this point.  The first hour was spent, as usual, tip rolling until I found what works best for me, which in this case are the XL Spinfit CP360s.  The L included tips fit my left ear perfectly, but were too small for my right ear.  The XL included tips were too tight on both ears and really stuffed up the sound.  I also tried about five other likely tip candidates before settling on the CP360s.  The fit is relatively shallow, but that gives the sound some room to breath and keeps the earphones comfortable.  I'm definitely getting a good seal.
> 
> Sound-wise, these are like a warm hug.  The sound is incredibly rich (without any bass-bleed), yet still nicely detailed (without any harshness).  They're just right.  I'm fine not having an equalizer included in the app, because I can't imagine I'd want to adjust the sound signature at all. My favorite TWS, sound-wise, has been the Jabra 85t, which I find a smidge better than the Sennheiser MTW (1st Gen).  These MW08s are better.  There's no issue with volume from my perspective.  I'm listening now at about 45% on my iPhone, and it's louder than I need.  One of my go-to songs to test new earphones is Eminem's "Love the Way You Lie."  To be honest, I don't even like that song -- but it's got a couple areas (in both Eminem's and Rihanna's sections of the song) that are incredibly dense and complex "walls-of-sound" that all but the very best earphones completely fall down on.  These earphones nail it.  You can imagine how much I'm enjoying songs I actually like.
> 
> ...


Good to know the MW07's character managed to carry over to the 08 as that was probably its most admirable quality.

Warm hug is a really good way to describe it, which is surprising given that it's similar to the 99 Classics in overall sound signature, but I find the M&Ds to have the upper hand in midrange resolution. The Meze are guilty of getting too warm in the mids sometimes, which leads to an almost syrupy sound. Probably works really well on some of the genres you demoed, but the bass wasn't fast enough to keep up with the kicks on Devin Townsend's Empath. To be fair, 64-count doubles are hard for a lot of equipment to resolve without falling massively behind, so that's a hard ask.

If you'd like to somewhat stress-test the ANC, you could just use your HT to approximate the environment. Amplitude will be wildly different, but you should at least be able to figure out if the ANC algo can treat simulated subway sounds before you're SOL on the 6.

Glad you enjoy them! They weren't my preference, but that didn't mean I couldn't see massive potential in them for the right kind of listener.

And MusicTeck has shipped out the R5 and WH3. Really excited to have a dedicated demo rig for some of this stuff to isolate phone-specific issues I encounter during testing. Getting potentially a full watt out of the 4.4mm connection is just icing on the cake.


PixelSquish said:


> I sadly returned my Melomania Touch. The sound is truly phenomenal but a couple times one bud didn't charge as it didn't seat perfectly, and then lately having connection issues when taking them out of the case, and least of all but still a little issue, the volume drop to 50% when playing music when they first connect. Will keep an eye on if future firmware fixes these things.


Sorry to hear they're still giving you grief. There are moments where troubleshooting is required, for any set, and produces nothing but cortisol and frustration and the MTs can have their fair share of them. I'm pretty confident that the Cambridge crew will figure it out. Going through the HiBy R5 thread helped put the amount of field issues in perspective. 

Just with TWS, I think I've had about a 67% success rate out of what's shown up to the house at this point, which is right about what I was expecting going in. Unfortunate nature of the beast, but that isn't a horrible statistic).

What's taking over in the meantime?


----------



## rhsauer

miserybeforethemusic said:


> If you'd like to somewhat stress-test the ANC, you could just use your HT to approximate the environment. Amplitude will be wildly different, but you should at least be able to figure out if the ANC algo can treat simulated subway sounds before you're SOL on the 6.


Thanks for your thoughts! Can you please expand on this. What’s an HT?


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

rhsauer said:


> Thanks for your thoughts! Can you please expand on this. What’s an HT?


Home Theater (sorry). One of the YT reviewers will blast crowd noise through his computer speakers to test ANC. Got the idea from them. If we can't go to the noises themselves, might as well bring them to us, right?


----------



## PixelSquish

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Good to know the MW07's character managed to carry over to the 08 as that was probably its most admirable quality.
> 
> Warm hug is a really good way to describe it, which is surprising given that it's similar to the 99 Classics in overall sound signature, but I find the M&Ds to have the upper hand in midrange resolution. The Meze are guilty of getting too warm in the mids sometimes, which leads to an almost syrupy sound. Probably works really well on some of the genres you demoed, but the bass wasn't fast enough to keep up with the kicks on Devin Townsend's Empath. To be fair, 64-count doubles are hard for a lot of equipment to resolve without falling massively behind, so that's a hard ask.
> 
> ...



Just going to stick with my MTW2. Really looking forward to the XM4 if Sony adapts the form factor seen on the leaks. I decided to upgrade the drivetrain of my city bike with the MT money instead. I think Sony with all their history and engineering has the best chance of coming out with something I want next.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

PixelSquish said:


> Just going to stick with my MTW2. Really looking forward to the XM4 if Sony adapts the form factor seen on the leaks. I decided to upgrade the drivetrain of my city bike with the MT money instead. I think Sony with all their history and engineering has the best chance of coming out with something I want next.


Sounds like a good compromise. Can't listen on a bike if it's stuck in the garage.

Keep wanting to like these 400BT, but I think the form factor just doesn't work that well for my ears to wear as comfortably as the Noble or UEs can. I either get hot spots on my concha or antihelix (depending on whether they're rotated front or rear) after about 45 minutes. I assume the MTW2 sit pretty well in your ears?

They are stellar for vocals and I think I'm getting more used to the timbre, but wired pairs like the Kanas Pro can still spank these things in terms of timbre, resolution, and extension. Easily worth $100 on sound alone, but it wouldn't take much extra to get the sound and ANC/HearThrough (a la Technics).


----------



## CocaCola15

PixelSquish said:


> I sadly returned my Melomania Touch. The sound is truly phenomenal but a couple times one bud didn't charge as it didn't seat perfectly, and then lately having connection issues when taking them out of the case, and least of all but still a little issue, the volume drop to 50% when playing music when they first connect. Will keep an eye on if future firmware fixes these things.
> 
> 
> 
> excited as well. Looking forward to the specs.


Sorry to hear. I returned my first pair but no issues yet with the replacements, this time in white. Hope they continue to work because like you I am into the sound signature.


----------



## PixelSquish

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Sounds like a good compromise. Can't listen on a bike if it's stuck in the garage.
> 
> Keep wanting to like these 400BT, but I think the form factor just doesn't work that well for my ears to wear as comfortably as the Noble or UEs can. I either get hot spots on my concha or antihelix (depending on whether they're rotated front or rear) after about 45 minutes. I assume the MTW2 sit pretty well in your ears?
> 
> They are stellar for vocals and I think I'm getting more used to the timbre, but wired pairs like the Kanas Pro can still spank these things in terms of timbre, resolution, and extension. Easily worth $100 on sound alone, but it wouldn't take much extra to get the sound and ANC/HearThrough (a la Technics).



I like a slightly warmer fun sound with good bass impact whilst still having nice details, like the MT and MTW2, so I think the Sony's can match that from what I've read. The MTW2 fit great. I've had them for a year now and never had an issue. Occasionally I'll do a light sprint down a block or two with the dog and they don't budge. The bike worked fine, I just wanted 9 speeds vs 7  

The MT checked the SQ box really well. I think maybe even slightly better than the MTW2. But I just want to know that I can pull them out of the case and they will be connected and fully charged by the time I get down the stairs to leave, with the MT did not do always. Oh well. First world problems, live with the MTW2 for a few months until something else pops up that feels worth it.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic (Apr 5, 2021)

PixelSquish said:


> I like a slightly warmer fun sound with good bass impact whilst still having nice details, like the MT and MTW2, so I think the Sony's can match that from what I've read. The MTW2 fit great. I've had them for a year now and never had an issue. Occasionally I'll do a light sprint down a block or two with the dog and they don't budge. The bike worked fine, I just wanted 9 speeds vs 7
> 
> The MT checked the SQ box really well. I think maybe even slightly better than the MTW2. But I just want to know that I can pull them out of the case and they will be connected and fully charged by the time I get down the stairs to leave, with the MT did not do always. Oh well. First world problems, live with the MTW2 for a few months until something else pops up that feels worth it.


I admire your patience and understand what you mean in terms of your preferred sound signature. Mine tends to be a very PA/live-focused sound that has lots of energy and impact. Like to close my eyes and think I'm right where the FOH engineer set up the arena. Secondary to that is realistic timbre. Used to think this was a pretty JBL-esque sound, but the waters are so murky now that they're under the Harman umbrella.

How warm can you get before it's considered dark, by the way? You might be a good M&D candidate, save for the form factor potentially picking up some more wind in comparison.


----------



## fmkuz

rhsauer said:


> My MW08s came this morning and I've had a couple of hours with them at this point.  The first hour was spent, as usual, tip rolling until I found what works best for me, which in this case are the XL Spinfit CP360s.  The L included tips fit my left ear perfectly, but were too small for my right ear.  The XL included tips were too tight on both ears and really stuffed up the sound.  I also tried about five other likely tip candidates before settling on the CP360s.  The fit is relatively shallow, but that gives the sound some room to breath and keeps the earphones comfortable.  I'm definitely getting a good seal.
> 
> Sound-wise, these are like a warm hug.  The sound is incredibly rich (without any bass-bleed), yet still nicely detailed (without any harshness).  They're just right.  I'm fine not having an equalizer included in the app, because I can't imagine I'd want to adjust the sound signature at all. My favorite TWS, sound-wise, has been the Jabra 85t, which I find a smidge better than the Sennheiser MTW (1st Gen).  These MW08s are better.  There's no issue with volume from my perspective.  I'm listening now at about 45% on my iPhone, and it's louder than I need.  One of my go-to songs to test new earphones is Eminem's "Love the Way You Lie."  To be honest, I don't even like that song -- but it's got a couple areas (in both Eminem's and Rihanna's sections of the song) that are incredibly dense and complex "walls-of-sound" that all but the very best earphones completely fall down on.  These earphones nail it.  You can imagine how much I'm enjoying songs I actually like.
> 
> ...


Thanks for you words! Did you test the mics performances for calls or videoconferences?


----------



## davidcotton

Custom Art announce new wireless custom/universal called the Go One.


----------



## DJTobes

rhsauer said:


> Finally, I updated the firmware upon opening.  It took two tries on my iPhone 11 Pro Max, but eventually worked fine.


For those here like myself that have had no joy at all installing the M&D MW08 firmware update (iPhone 12 Pro Max on 14.4.2, with the M&D Connect app v 1.0.4) the lovely M&D support people tell me that there is a 1.05 version of the app being released later this week with a new firmware version for all, as well as resolving the updating issue that I, and obviously others, have reported. Good times!


----------



## bladefd (Apr 5, 2021)

PixelSquish said:


> The MT checked the SQ box really well. I think maybe even slightly better than the MTW2. But I just want to know that I can pull them out of the case and they will be connected and fully charged by the time I get down the stairs to leave, with the MT did not do always. Oh well. First world problems, live with the MTW2 for a few months until something else pops up that feels worth it.


Yeah unfortunately, the MT are all about placement in case. When you are putting them away, you have to worry about the next time you will be removing them from the case. When you are removing them, you have to worry whether you put them in perfectly the day before. You can't just enjoy them for the present moment, but you have to worry about the day before or day after lol.

I have the same thought running in my mind daily when I'm either pulling them out of the case or putting them away. If they were placed properly then I just relax and it's all great. If they were not placed properly and if they don't connect within seconds, I know right away it didn't charge. And I groan.

My fallback strategy for worst-case scenario is that I always connect the left side bud because issue only happens with the right bud. It never happens with the left bud. My phone also doesn't have TWS+ mode so I leave right bud in slave mode. That means I will always have sound in the left bud no matter what and those days, I only use left bud. It's not optimal solution, but it's worst case scenario for me. I'm hoping to wait couple more months to RMA and maybe they fix that case issue in a future batch.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

Special delivery!


Got a full tip kit, leather case for the Noble X, and a set of Falcon 1 for grins. It'd be nice to crown a new sub-$100 champ.

The double-flange wide-bore tips here are excellent for the Falcon Pro, especially for those who are in between sizes for the included tips. Basically just the driver working at this point with no obstruction to the port:



I'm able to use the Small on both sides and get a snug, potentially deeper fit that seems to feel less "pushy" on the ear canal. Wholeheartedly recommend them for people with wide-bore TWS out there that haven't quite found their fit yet, but don't feel like forking out $20 for two pairs of a "maybe." Spent about $30 for the whole tip kit there. Should be able to extract the "per pair" price from that.


----------



## C_Lindbergh

So you can switch devcies with the buttons on the MW08?  

Im also curious about the button placement, are they easy to use? Normally buttons would be placed onto the Earbuds and not at the top.


----------



## rhsauer

DJTobes said:


> For those here like myself that have had no joy at all installing the M&D MW08 firmware update (iPhone 12 Pro Max on 14.4.2, with the M&D Connect app v 1.0.4) the lovely M&D support people tell me that there is a 1.05 version of the app being released later this week with a new firmware version for all, as well as resolving the updating issue that I, and obviously others, have reported. Good times!


FWIW, when I first paired the MW08s with my iPhone I used the iPhone to change the name (putting an asterisk in the front, so it would appear at the top of my list).  When I then tried to apply the update, it hung at about 30%.  I then took the asterisk out and tried again -- and the update worked seamlessly.  I don't know if renaming the device interfered with the update, but it's at least some anecdotal evidence that it might.


----------



## rhsauer

fmkuz said:


> Thanks for you words! Did you test the mics performances for calls or videoconferences?


I just tested the mic outside and was told I sounded like I was speaking into the phone.  I then went indoors and turned on a TV, and was told I was still very audible (though the TV could be heard in the background).  So -- so far, so good.


----------



## rhsauer

C_Lindbergh said:


> So you can switch devcies with the buttons on the MW08?
> 
> Im also curious about the button placement, are they easy to use? Normally buttons would be placed onto the Earbuds and not at the top.


I think the buttons at the top are ideal -- you don't push the buds into your ear canal.  If you hold down the multi-function button for six seconds or so, it goes into pairing mode and you can pair to a new device or reconnect to a previously paired device by choosing the MW08s from the Bluetooth menu.  On some earphones you have to physically find and disconnect from the device you're already paired with to pair with another device.  That can be a pain if you use the earphones with more than a few devices.  This is better than that -- but not as good as Apple's system, or fast pairing.


----------



## erockg

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Special delivery!
> 
> Got a full tip kit, leather case for the Noble X, and a set of Falcon 1 for grins. It'd be nice to crown a new sub-$100 champ.
> 
> ...


Where'd you buy from?  How long did it take to get?  Should I get the Pro or the NF2's?  Hmmm...


----------



## miserybeforethemusic (Apr 5, 2021)

erockg said:


> Where'd you buy from?  How long did it take to get?  Should I get the Pro or the NF2's?  Hmmm...


Ordered from Noble direct on the 31st and got everything today (was scheduled for tomorrow). Want to figure out where the NF1 fit on the spectrum relative to the NFP, but I don't think you'd be going wrong with the NFP; it's just simply a darn-good sounding 3-driver TWS that happens to do HearThrough pretty decently and takes regular-size tips. Update process on the NF1 is a chore compared to the NFP because it requires a second app, but so far so good.

Where the NF1 will probably pull its ire is in the case design. That might have been justified at its original price, but I don't think it's horrible for the new price point. Regardless, stepping up to the better case (shared by the NF2 and NFP) gives you much better ergonomics and confidence that the charging contacts are aligned when cased. Size-wise, they're very similar to the 400BT and a little bit fatter than both of the Jabras.

Bummer about the NF1 is that they're more akin to the Jabra 75t/Senn 400BT when it comes to nozzle length. Means it's really small. I'll attempt to use Final tips on these, but they may not work out so well. That being said, the stock tips are pretty reminiscent of what you get with the JBL Club Pro+ and Earfun Free Pro; just a smoky single-flange (edit: these are C-Pro tips similar in material to the NFP's, but different in shape and bore diameter), pretty soft silicone. Should be fine for most people. Plenty comfortable.


----------



## erockg

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Ordered from Noble direct on the 31st and got everything today (was scheduled for tomorrow). Want to figure out where the NF1 fit on the spectrum relative to the NFP, but I don't think you'd be going wrong with the NFP; it's just simply a darn-good sounding 3-driver TWS that happens to do HearThrough pretty decently and takes regular-size tips. Update process on the NF1 is a chore compared to the NFP because it requires a second app, but so far so good.
> 
> Where the NF1 will probably pull its ire is in the case design. That might have been justified at its original price, but I don't think it's horrible for the new price point. Regardless, stepping up to the better case (shared by the NF2 and NFP) gives you much better ergonomics and confidence that the charging contacts are aligned when cased. Size-wise, they're very similar to the 400BT and a little bit fatter than both of the Jabras.
> 
> Bummer about the NF1 is that they're more akin to the Jabra 75t/Senn 400BT when it comes to nozzle length. Means it's really small. I'll attempt to use Final tips on these, but they may not work out so well. That being said, the stock tips are pretty reminiscent of what you get with the JBL Club Pro+ and Earfun Free Pro; just a smoky single-flange, pretty soft silicone. Should be fine for most people. Plenty comfortable.


Oh, I thought those were the new NF2's that are on their site.  Thinking about them since they're more than half the price with similar features, less driver specs.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

erockg said:


> Oh, I thought those were the new NF2's that are on their site.  Thinking about them since they're more than half the price with similar features, less driver specs.


Makes more sense. If the driver is tuned the same between the NF1 and NF2, you're going to want the Pro. Much cleaner out of the box; these have a lot of upper midrange energy in stock form, as evidenced by an overabundance of cymbal splash on Mae's _The Fisherman's Song_ (previously linked). These will take some time to EQ, but I can hear potential in the top-end of these things that I haven't yet heard at the price point. Have to remember they're under $100 now.

Here's the kicker: both the NF1 and NF2 require a separate app called Noble Upgrade just for firmware updates. It was intuitive enough for me, but those who require a more refined GUI are going to be out of luck here. Process ran just fine, though I did notice that I had to make sure "Location Always On" was selected instead of "While Using the App" or the app itself went haywire and I couldn't select any TWS to update. Absolutely zero factory resets were required to make things work. Don't want to overlook that point.

Initial impressions are this: the NF1 remind me, in a lot of ways, about the way the Noble X were tuned. Instead of going for a technical powerhouse in one genre and having to sacrifice abilities in another, the NF1 seem tuned to handle every genre I throw at them just fine (but not exceptionally). They have a treble presence that's completely engulfed in bloom on the Earfun Free Pro and a decent sense of space to boot. I think they'll benefit much more from some EQ, but this is a pretty good starting point.


----------



## Canabuc

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Special delivery!
> 
> Got a full tip kit, leather case for the Noble X, and a set of Falcon 1 for grins. It'd be nice to crown a new sub-$100 champ.
> 
> ...



Where is tip kit from?


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

Canabuc said:


> Where is tip kit from?


Bought from Noble direct here:
https://www.nobleaudio.com/accessories/p/eartips-set


----------



## TK33

C_Lindbergh said:


> So you can switch devcies with the buttons on the MW08?
> 
> Im also curious about the button placement, are they easy to use? Normally buttons would be placed onto the Earbuds and not at the top.



I dont have the MW08 but I do have the MW07 Go and was glad to see they kept the buttons on the MW08 (starting to get FOMO from all the positive discussion here).  I think it is a great design and is very easy to use (esp the volume rocker). No need to memorize left vs right controls or number of taps and the placement prevents the earbud from getting shoved in your ear when pressed.  Glad to see they stuck with it.


----------



## chinmie

tinyman392 said:


> I should probably write a quick review of the two as they kind of have their pros and cons.


I'll be looking forward for it, thanks


----------



## miserybeforethemusic (Apr 5, 2021)

Earfun who? After a little EQ, these NF1s are just stealing the show left and right. Any TWS that can handle this track properly, so the way through, gets due credit from me:

_Bonus points if you start from the track before this one_

Even at the original $140, these would have still been a good value. At their current price, I'd call them a steal unless you need a smaller form factor (because the NF1 protrude a decent amount). I understand there might have been firmware troubles before this, but I've had a really smooth ride so far.

What surprises me is how composed this thing is after taming a couple trouble spots; a quick run through Neutralizer should be all you need. Afterwards, what you get is a pretty balanced single-DD powerhouse that's capable of good bass extension without losing its impact or timbre. Treble admittedly feels recessed, as do vocals, but they're tonally on point and set on an even plane in terms of left-to-right. Oddly enough, they seem more cramped than I think they could be. Devin's known for making some really atmospheric stuff, but you never feel like you're blasting off with the symphony.

Perhaps this is the major value-add to those extra BAs in the NFP. That's not too sell the DD in here short, though. It's really, really good.

More to follow on things like call quality, battery life, and day-to-day usage, but the Noble Falcon 1 will be my go-to rec under $100. Unless you need the more advanced features of the Earfun or Jabra 75t and are willing to take the necessary SQ hit to get it, I think this is where you should start.

I'd definitely get it over the 400BT...


----------



## Canabuc

Under 100 fiil to pro are best sounding of what I have tested.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

Canabuc said:


> Under 100 fiil to pro are best sounding of what I have tested.


IIRC, aren't the T1 Pro and Earfun Free Pro the same, only the T1P has an app? If so, these walk on the FIIL in SQ. EFP/T1P still have the edge in available ANC and HearThrough. EFP/T1P are also considerably more low-profile in the ear, though the NF1 still lock into my ears just fine and don't budge while headbanging.

Don't think you can go wrong with either, but I don't think the FIIL/Earfun are as versatile as the Noble.


----------



## Canabuc

They are the same hardware. But the EFP are tuned very differently. The Fiil equalized sound great with fantastic highs and nice sub bass without running the mids.  If they had better ambient and were a bit better with the touch controls which are over sensitive they would just about be up there with the JBL.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

Canabuc said:


> They are the same hardware. But the EFP are tuned very differently. The Fiil equalized sound great with fantastic highs and nice sub bass without running the mids.  If they had better ambient and were a bit better with the touch controls which are over sensitive they would just about be up there with the JBL.


But do they look this good on the charger?


I really wish we had this backlighting on the Falcon Pro.


----------



## XmarX (Apr 6, 2021)

turbobb said:


> FYI that this thread is dedicated to true wireless (TWS) so sticking with that (since I don't have experience with any of Jays' products), I've been looking at low latency TWS that I can use with video editing (especially for matching multi-cam footage and the audio) and I picked up this set since it was so cheap:
> https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B08LV477NK/
> 
> It's likely the best $16 I've spent on any TWS. The low latency function (four taps on right bud confirmed by 2 beeps) does improve the audio/video sync which I think might be crucial for you wrt gaming/videos. The sound quality is also quite good even over SBC (it does feature AAC as well but Win10 doesn't support it) with elevated bass and mids but slightly rolled off treble - the major caveat though is if you can get the included buds to seal well - I couldn't but ended up using Spinfit tips which worked well while still fitting in the case. The only knock is probably the mics - while serviceable they're not the greatest and makes one sound a little muffled, sorta like being underwater.
> ...


Thanks for the reply!
But, unfortunately, its unavailable in my country!

I kind of like Soundpeats True Air 2.
Seems like its got a lot of positive reviews.

But TBH, I'm looking for a product from more "mainstream" western or Japanese brands like Sony, Jabra etc.
It seems like they are too costly.


----------



## Canabuc

miserybeforethemusic said:


> But do they look this good on the charger?
> 
> I really wish we had this backlighting on the Falcon Pro.


Saw the tips on Falcon site but looks like they are for IEM. Any chance you can measure the length and or diameter?


----------



## Ultrainferno

Do the Colorbuds still have what it takes?



https://www.headfonia.com/1more-colorbuds-review/


----------



## DigDub

Canabuc said:


> Under 100 fiil to pro are best sounding of what I have tested.


Even if the t1 pro costs more than the cheap price they ask for, I'd gladly pay for them. Their SQ is the best of the tws buds I've had.


----------



## DigDub

miserybeforethemusic said:


> IIRC, aren't the T1 Pro and Earfun Free Pro the same, only the T1P has an app? If so, these walk on the FIIL in SQ. EFP/T1P still have the edge in available ANC and HearThrough. EFP/T1P are also considerably more low-profile in the ear, though the NF1 still lock into my ears just fine and don't budge while headbanging.
> 
> Don't think you can go wrong with either, but I don't think the FIIL/Earfun are as versatile as the Noble.


The t1 pro and earfun pro are tuned differently. I've auditioned the noble falcon before and didn't quite like it. The SQ of the Fiil, at least to my ears, sounds better than the falcon. The Fiil has this uncanny ability to make voices sound natural without giving it a mid bass boost. Despite the smallish size of the driver, the sub bass sounds very fluid. The Fiil is pretty versatile since it gives a very natural sound signature.


----------



## cresny (Apr 6, 2021)

Devialet firmware is out. Tried to install and... bricked.

(edit) Ok it's back now. These things are weird. It's like they need time to heal themselves!


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

Canabuc said:


> Saw the tips on Falcon site but looks like they are for IEM. Any chance you can measure the length and or diameter?


They are for IEM, but you'll find a few of them still work for TWS, provided the nozzle is long enough.


----------



## clerkpalmer

cresny said:


> Devialet firmware is out. Tried to install and... bricked.
> 
> (edit) Ok it's back now. These things are weird. It's like they need time to heal themselves!


Scared to try.


----------



## kolbo

clerkpalmer said:


> Scared to try.


I just did. Works better now. I think I still prefer the MW08 even though the ANC and ambient are not great. I’m actually getting a replacement MW08 as on mine there is barely a difference between ANC on and off. Hope that works - they sound awesome...


----------



## Luke Skywalker

Found my Bose NC buds this morning!  Lost them a few months ago. Finally gave up looking and got the KEFs


----------



## cresny

clerkpalmer said:


> Scared to try.


I had to (again) reset network/Bluetooth, but mine did update eventually. There were some scary bits before that where it seemed I lost pairing ability, but it sort-of fixed itself. Anyway, all said and done it does appear they fixed the drain issue, as mine have now been standing by for a couple of hours and still show 100% charge.


----------



## Luke Skywalker

clerkpalmer said:


> Scared to try.


Don’t forget what Muad'dib says about Fear...

"I must not fear.Fear is the mind-killer.Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.I will face my fear.I will permit it to pass over me and through me.And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain."


----------



## miserybeforethemusic (Apr 6, 2021)

cresny said:


> I had to (again) reset network/Bluetooth, but mine did update eventually. There were some scary bits before that where it seemed I lost pairing ability, but it sort-of fixed itself. Anyway, all said and done it does appear they fixed the drain issue, as mine have now been standing by for a couple of hours and still show 100% charge.


Something to investigate if you're doing this via Android as I just figured this out last night:

Some LE devices need location services for the respective TWS app to be Always On, not just when the app is in use. I didn't do this when I tried to upgrade the NF1 and the system went haywire in the process. Once I changed it to Always On, the update went perfectly. Might be worth checking on the Devialet app to see if it's the same issue and I'd assume a cold boot would be a good idea as well. Conversely, if you're trying to do this on iOS and it's being a pain, do you have an Android device to try updating the firmware on as well?

This could also potentially be why my MTs were acting all screwy with volume. I'll have to spend some time with them after work today and report back on my findings. More to come...


davidcotton said:


> Custom Art announce new wireless custom/universal called the Go One.


Had this saved in my quotes stack, but never attached it to a post. Sorry about that.

Do you have a link to the discussion on it? Couldn't find anything on Piotr's site. And to think I had the FIBAE 7 in my sights. Might not have to anymore.




Update: found the product page, at least. Have fun with the customizer 
https://thecustomart.com/shop/acrylic-products/go-one/


----------



## smith

Anyone heard when the Devailet Gemini will be back up for the sale ...now the firmware fix is out🤔


----------



## erockg

smith said:


> Anyone heard when the Devailet Gemini will be back up for the sale ...now the firmware fix is out🤔


I keep asking them and they have no info as of last night.  Frustrating!

"
Thank you for your message. 

This product is currently unavailable and we will be glad to let you know when shipments resume. 

I apologize for not being able to provide a solid answer at this stage.  

Please kindly stay tuned via our Newsletter or Latest-News 
https://help.devialet.com/hc/en-us/categories/200536421-Latest-News
I will close this ticket temporarily so that you will not keep receiving a reminder e-mail from our system. You are always welcome to come back to us at any time. Simply give us a buzz or reply to this email when you need assistance. 

Once again, thank you for your contact. Your support means a lot to Devialet. 

Wishing you a very pleasant week. 

Best regards,
Masaji | Customer service & support Devialet"​


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

Sometimes it's the dumbest settings that can make or break a pair of TWS...I think I've narrowed down, at least in my case, the issue I was having with volume control on the MT.

With my particular flavor of Android, the Location popup that comes up on the first boot of each app (that would require it) did not present to me every available setting for the MT app. As a result, the TWS were only being granted location access when the Melomania app was open. Apparently, this can wreak havoc on certain features of a TWS. In the NF1's case, it prevented me from being able to select each bud in the firmware update app. Turns out that it had a similar effect for the MT, only with regard to volume control.

If you're on Android, I highly encourage you to test this theory out:

Open your Android settings menu (the big system-wide one)
Open Location (depending on which flavor of Android you have, this may be buried under additional settings menus)
Open "App access to Location" (or whatever sounds like "app-specific location settings")
Scroll until you find the Melomania app and select it
You should see something similar to this:

For me, Deny was selected at first. Once I selected Allow all the time, I got my volume control back. And, so far, it's stayed back.

The rationale behind why this matters, as far as I understand, is that LE devices need permanent location access to function properly. Guess it'll bork the OnePlus 8T's volume control without it.

Maybe it'll work for you, maybe not. Don't know what to suggest for the iPhone folks, if anything is even required.


----------



## jhwalker

cresny said:


> Devialet firmware is out. Tried to install and... bricked.
> 
> (edit) Ok it's back now. These things are weird. It's like they need time to heal themselves!


Both of my earbuds updated first try, but the case is bricked :/ so I can't re-pair them with ANY source.

So I have two up-to-date earbuds but no way to use them 

NOTE:  There is a tech note on their website re: getting a case to update - doesn't work for me.  Mine seems completely dead (firmware shows 0.0.0, charge at 0%, button completely unresponsive).


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

jhwalker said:


> Both of my earbuds updated first try, but the case is bricked :/ so I can't re-pair them with ANY source.
> 
> So I have two up-to-date earbuds but no way to use them
> 
> NOTE:  There is a tech note on their website re: getting a case to update - doesn't work for me.  Mine seems completely dead (firmware shows 0.0.0, charge at 0%, button completely unresponsive).


Android or iOS? Sometimes dumping app cache (and potentially app data) can release the update gremlins.


----------



## jhwalker

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Android or iOS? Sometimes dumping app cache (and potentially app data) can release the update gremlins.


iOS.  I uninstalled and re-installed the app, as well, to no avail 🤷‍♂️


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

jhwalker said:


> iOS.  I uninstalled and re-installed the app, as well, to no avail 🤷‍♂️


Have any other devices at your disposal? If not, you may also want to attempt a cold boot (power off fully, wait about 10 seconds, then power on your iPhone).

Unfortunately, I don't know iOS architecture above basic troubleshooting steps; the daily users should probably be able to help more than I can. Hope you manage to figure it out!


----------



## clerkpalmer

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Have any other devices at your disposal? If not, you may also want to attempt a cold boot (power off fully, wait about 10 seconds, then power on your iPhone).
> 
> Unfortunately, I don't know iOS architecture above basic troubleshooting steps; the daily users should probably be able to help more than I can. Hope you manage to figure it out!


Double scared now.  Hard to believe they took 3 months to push this update and it’s still not working. Debacle.


----------



## jhwalker

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Have any other devices at your disposal? If not, you may also want to attempt a cold boot (power off fully, wait about 10 seconds, then power on your iPhone).
> 
> Unfortunately, I don't know iOS architecture above basic troubleshooting steps; the daily users should probably be able to help more than I can. Hope you manage to figure it out!


Yes, have tried all that - I really don't think it's the phone.  I think the case is simply bricked - it's completely non-responsive - though, oddly, it still seems to charge the earbuds ... so at least they won't run down, even if I can't listen to them


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

clerkpalmer said:


> Double scared now.  Hard to believe they took 3 months to push this update and it’s still not working. Debacle.


Plot twist: _that's_ what Devialet means in ancient Aramaic...or something.


jhwalker said:


> Yes, have tried all that - I really don't think it's the phone.  I think the case is simply bricked - it's completely non-responsive - though, oddly, it still seems to charge the earbuds ... so at least they won't run down, even if I can't listen to them


The buds communicate to the phone _through the case_? Uh oh.


----------



## jhwalker

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Plot twist: _that's_ what Devialet means in ancient Aramaic...or something.
> 
> The buds communicate to the phone _through the case_? Uh oh.


No ... but like many other buds, you use a button-press on the case to trigger pairing.  So after the update, my buds were no longer paired with my phone, and now I can't re-pair them with my phone, or anything else.


----------



## bladefd

Sony WF-1000xm4 has been certified with Bluetooth 5.2 but no aptx/aptx HD. Seems they may be going for LDAC, and I'm sure it will have AAC/SBC.



> Meanwhile, the FCC describes that the WF-1000XM4 has a MediaTek MT2822S SoC, up from the MT2811S found in the WF-1000XM3. Based on The Walkman Blog's findings, the MT2822 has a faster CPU combined with an improved DSP coprocessor. The MT2822 supports up to 24-bit and 192 KHz audio like the MT2811S, but the former utilises Hardware Active Noise Cancellation (ANC) and hardware gain control, among other features.
> 
> The FCC has provided a sketch of the WF-1000XM4's charging case too, although possibly only of the top of its lid. While the *presence of a MediaTek SoC rules out the WF-1000XM4 from supporting any aptX codecs, leaked box art points to Sony including its proprietary LDAC* codec. It is unclear when Sony will release the WF-1000XM4, but the FCC suggests that the earbuds will arrive before September.


https://www.notebookcheck.net/The-S...les-out-aptX-or-aptX-HD-support.531036.0.html


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

bladefd said:


> Sony WF-1000xm4 has been certified with Bluetooth 5.2 but no aptx/aptx HD. Seems they may be going for LDAC, and I'm sure it will have AAC/SBC.


That's going to make some people grumpy, but I assume Sony will still manage to pull it off.


----------



## cresny (Apr 6, 2021)

jhwalker said:


> Yes, have tried all that - I really don't think it's the phone.  I think the case is simply bricked - it's completely non-responsive - though, oddly, it still seems to charge the earbuds ... so at least they won't run down, even if I can't listen to them


I had that as well, but after close/opening the case it just worked. The right earbud is supposed to passively update the case. If it doesn't then their suggested remedy is to take the right right out and put it back in after waiting a few seconds. It _should_ work eventually.

I agree that this is one of the weirdest update procedures I've ever seen.

basically you just want to see the light go on. don't bother pushing the button, but do try taking the buds out and back in and close/open the case. If it doesn't come back to life after a number of tries then I guess it's a brick, and they will replace them.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

cresny said:


> I had that as well, but after close/opening the case it just worked. The right earbud is supposed to passively update the case. If it doesn't then their suggested remedy is to take the right right out and put it back in after waiting a few seconds. It _should_ work eventually.
> 
> I agree that this is one of the weirdest update procedures I've ever seen.
> 
> basically you just want to see the light go on. don't bother pushing the button, but do try taking the buds out and back in and close/open the case. If it doesn't come back to life after a number of tries then I guess it's a brick, and they will replace them.


Sounds like Design won against whatever boardroom battle against Engineering they staked. That's a pretty wild update process...


----------



## clerkpalmer

bladefd said:


> Sony WF-1000xm4 has been certified with Bluetooth 5.2 but no aptx/aptx HD. Seems they may be going for LDAC, and I'm sure it will have AAC/SBC.
> 
> 
> https://www.notebookcheck.net/The-S...les-out-aptX-or-aptX-HD-support.531036.0.html


I wouldn’t expect LDAC absent major breakthroughs in chip technology and/or batteries. I have always assumed LDAC requires too much battery to be used in a tws. Hope I’m pleasantly surprised.


----------



## Luke Skywalker

In surprised Apple hasn’t implemented Airplay for the AirPods and the new headphones. My understanding is that it’s lossless


----------



## C_Lindbergh

Let's hope Sony has fixed their biggest issue with their previous flagship TWS... The humongous case...


----------



## samandhi

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Something to investigate if you're doing this via Android as I just figured this out last night:
> 
> Some LE devices need location services for the respective TWS app to be Always On, not just when the app is in use. I didn't do this when I tried to upgrade the NF1 and the system went haywire in the process. Once I changed it to Always On, the update went perfectly. Might be worth checking on the Devialet app to see if it's the same issue and I'd assume a cold boot would be a good idea as well. Conversely, if you're trying to do this on iOS and it's being a pain, do you have an Android device to try updating the firmware on as well?
> 
> ...





miserybeforethemusic said:


> Sometimes it's the dumbest settings that can make or break a pair of TWS...I think I've narrowed down, at least in my case, the issue I was having with volume control on the MT.
> 
> With my particular flavor of Android, the Location popup that comes up on the first boot of each app (that would require it) did not present to me every available setting for the MT app. As a result, the TWS were only being granted location access when the Melomania app was open. Apparently, this can wreak havoc on certain features of a TWS. In the NF1's case, it prevented me from being able to select each bud in the firmware update app. Turns out that it had a similar effect for the MT, only with regard to volume control.
> 
> ...


Just for information purposes, I have used the MT app with my DX160 since the beginning, and have had no issues, with location services turned off. Granted I have a pop-up yelling at me for having it turned off, every time I open the MT app, but no adverse effects otherwise. I also have absolute volume turned off (for my Deva BT because they don't have a volume control).

I don't have the location permission app open when I get to location services like your picture shows. All I have in my version of android is a list of apps, and a toggle switch to turn it on or off. That might be because the DX still uses android 8?! Not sure, but hopefully this info can help others (if we all gather the information about the scenerio).


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

C_Lindbergh said:


> Let's hope Sony has fixed their biggest issue with their previous flagship TWS... The humongous case...


I joked to myself, after reading that article, that the reason they only have a sketch of the top of the case was because it's going to be a behemoth! You're definitely not the only one.


samandhi said:


> Just for information purposes, I have used the MT app with my DX160 since the beginning, and have had no issues, with location services turned off. Granted I have a pop-up yelling at me for having it turned off, every time I open the MT app, but no adverse effects otherwise. I also have absolute volume turned off (for my Deva BT because they don't have a volume control).
> 
> I don't have the location permission app open when I get to location services like your picture shows. All I have in my version of android is a list of apps, and a toggle switch to turn it on or off. That might be because the DX still uses android 8?! Not sure, but hopefully this info can help others (if we all gather the information about the scenerio).


May be a smartphone thing, too. Just offering the suggestions in case someone comes by and has the same issue.

Been enjoying the evening listening to the _Black Mesa_ soundtrack on the EFPs; they're really taking advantage of the intensity cues. Still pretty bloomy, but I'm all right with this. Just wish the ANC did more; not the best for cutting out the fan noise from my HVAC on the back patio.


----------



## clerkpalmer

Luke Skywalker said:


> In surprised Apple hasn’t implemented Airplay for the AirPods and the new headphones. My understanding is that it’s lossless


Hmmm. Interesting. It would really only work on your home WiFi. Probably a very limited use case.


----------



## clerkpalmer

cresny said:


> I had that as well, but after close/opening the case it just worked. The right earbud is supposed to passively update the case. If it doesn't then their suggested remedy is to take the right right out and put it back in after waiting a few seconds. It _should_ work eventually.
> 
> I agree that this is one of the weirdest update procedures I've ever seen.
> 
> basically you just want to see the light go on. don't bother pushing the button, but do try taking the buds out and back in and close/open the case. If it doesn't come back to life after a number of tries then I guess it's a brick, and they will replace them.


Mine won’t update. Keeps throwing an error to make sure the buds are in the case - which they are.


----------



## clerkpalmer (Apr 6, 2021)

clerkpalmer said:


> Scared to try.


Well. iOS user here. My charging case bricked as well. Totally dead. Anyone on iOS Do Not do this.
Edit - false alarm. Back in business. It was dead for about 5 minutes. Now working.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

clerkpalmer said:


> Well. iOS user here. My charging case bricked as well. Totally dead. Anyone on iOS Do Not do this.
> Edit - false alarm. Back in business. It was dead for about 5 minutes. Now working.


Devialet means _heart attack _in Swahili?


----------



## clerkpalmer

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Devialet means _heart attack _in Swahili?


Mine have been working fine but I couldn’t help myself. Lol. The case was completely DOA. Plugged it in and everything. Then voila!


----------



## jhwalker

clerkpalmer said:


> Well. iOS user here. My charging case bricked as well. Totally dead. Anyone on iOS Do Not do this.
> Edit - false alarm. Back in business. It was dead for about 5 minutes. Now working.


I wish mine would come back to life.  I’ve been sitting here all evening trying every “fix” suggested, over and over.  No dice.

About time for me, at least, to throw in the towel.


----------



## clerkpalmer

jhwalker said:


> I wish mine would come back to life.  I’ve been sitting here all evening trying every “fix” suggested, over and over.  No dice.
> 
> About time for me, at least, to throw in the towel.


If you bought from Crutchfield might be worth asking for a refund.


----------



## tinyman392

bladefd said:


> Sony WF-1000xm4 has been certified with Bluetooth 5.2 but no aptx/aptx HD. Seems they may be going for LDAC, and I'm sure it will have AAC/SBC.
> 
> 
> https://www.notebookcheck.net/The-S...les-out-aptX-or-aptX-HD-support.531036.0.html


I don’t know about AAC, but the headphone has to support SBC as that’s kind of the base codec for BT.  I’m not sure if it’s against protocol to not support SBC, but I wouldn’t be surprised if it were.  


Luke Skywalker said:


> In surprised Apple hasn’t implemented Airplay for the AirPods and the new headphones. My understanding is that it’s lossless


Apple would need to add WiFi to the AirPods as well as a way for them to connect to the network.  This is harder said than done as a lot of networks require certificates and weird authentication...  Then you also get the lag associated with AirPlay setup and the power drain from it as well.  Might not be worth the hassle, especially if the majority of the population wouldn’t hear the difference anyways.


----------



## Luke Skywalker

tinyman392 said:


> Apple would need to add WiFi to the AirPods as well as a way for them to connect to the network.  This is harder said than done as a lot of networks require certificates and weird authentication...  Then you also get the lag associated with AirPlay setup and the power drain from it as well.  Might not be worth the hassle, especially if the majority of the population wouldn’t hear the difference anyways.


Thanks - great explanation!


----------



## Canabuc

Getting annoyed with Cambridge Audio.  Been back and forth with them and am awaiting a simple email to RMA these.  I know it was Easter but how hard is it for someone to send an email with a mailing label today?  I could have sent these back and gotten replacement through Amazon a week ago....


----------



## erockg

KLH Fusion.  Wide soundstage.  Bass punches.  Love the sound.  Voice controls are awesome.  BT strong indoors.  Calls today were flawless.  Clear both ways.  Case has Qi.  Fit is great and they are very light.


----------



## Choco

if i'm using iphone, current TWS buds only going to support master slave mode ?

i see only some android phones support dual mode


----------



## clerkpalmer

Devialet is giving existing owners 3 years extended warranty. Nice gesture.


----------



## soullinker20 (Apr 7, 2021)

finished updating my devialet gemini and now after 3 months of frustration it is a joy to use no more problems for me. the update was a pain tbh on my phone. at first it won't finish updating the left earbud and having error. the solution provided on the website was to reset network settings on android and unpairing the geminis.

I did not reset the network settings of my phone because i dont' want to lose my saved networks lol.

Instead I used my wife's phone (no connection history on the gemini) to update the geminis and was smooth and easy from start to finish.

after a day of observing and left my phone's bluetooth On all night, no more battery drain.

the right earbud connects automatically when you pull it out of the case and as soon as you put back both earbuds and close the case it disconnects instantly.
I'm glad i didn't give up on them.

Lastly, they might have slightly re-tuned the sound as the highs has a bit more spark and extension than before. I'm not sure if they decreased some bass as I use my geminis more on movies and youtube.

Hope this helps.


----------



## cresny

clerkpalmer said:


> Devialet is giving existing owners 3 years extended warranty. Nice gesture.


It looks like this is a free Devialet Care extension, which if so includes one accidental breakage replacement (so you can now drop one in the toilet 🙂). They have a link for current holders that fills out an email stating "I already have it, what can you do for me?". will see.


----------



## clerkpalmer (Apr 7, 2021)

cresny said:


> It looks like this is a free Devialet Care extension, which if so includes one accidental breakage replacement (so you can now drop one in the toilet 🙂). They have a link for current holders that fills out an email stating "I already have it, what can you do for me?". will see.


Yes it says it covers accidental damage. I assume this isn’t transferable but it’s basically a full guaranty on these for 3 years.


----------



## Aevum (Apr 7, 2021)

god damn you AKG...

i have the AKG N400, and they sound great but pairing is awful, touch controls do what they want, ANC is a joke. I got tired of putting them in their case and finding them dead when i wanted to use them since the 3rd pin on the right earbud sometimes doesn't rise the whole distance. or the magnetic locking doesn't make sure that the earbuds are sitting straight, Worst of all, even in AAC or SBC i couldn't make them sync with either VLC or Youtube.

I picked up some freebuds pro, F u AKG, they always sit well and charge well, hell i can even use the app to see how much juice ls left in the case. the sound is 95% of the way there, its like when i changed from the Triple.fi 10 to the IE80´s,  the IE80 was a slightly less bright and more bloated, but the sheer difference in comfort and usability made it a better IEM in every way, going to the freebuds was like touch controls actually work, pairing is easy as pie ( a botton on the side of the case, led turns white, and the buds appear on your bluetooth list ready to pair, you pull the buds out of a charged case and the buds WORK. 

im sorry, but sometimes comfort just trumps sound quality, what's the point if they have problems charging, pair like ass between devices and the touch controls are basically broken ?


----------



## clerkpalmer

clerkpalmer said:


> Yes it says it covers accidental damage. I assume this isn’t transferable but it’s basically a full guaranty on these for 3 years.


Tried to enter the code - didn’t work.


Aevum said:


> god damn you AKG...
> 
> i have the AKG N400, and they sound great but pairing is awful, touch controls do what they want, ANC is a joke. I got tired of putting them in their case and finding them dead when i wanted to use them since the 3rd pin on the right earbud sometimes doesn't rise the whole distance. or the magnetic locking doesn't make sure that the earbuds are sitting straight, Worst of all, even in AAC or SBC i couldn't make them sync with either VLC or Youtube.
> 
> ...


they do sound good. And that’s the beginning and the end of the story. I gave up on mine long ago. Like you, too many times dead when I needed them.


----------



## BigZ12

Do you think there'll be an update to the Tevi for getting the new hear through function? 
Or is that just on the Pureplay Z3 because of the new Qualcomm 3040 chipset?


----------



## Luke Skywalker

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Conversely, the Azla XELASTEC ones allegedly also conform to the surface of your ear, but in more of a semi-permanent sort of way, which I think is kinda cool. Just haven't gotten around to testing them myself yet, but there's plenty of threads on HF that have mentioned them; can't remember where I first read about them.


Hey dude so it turns out I ordered the wrong type of AZLA tips. Instead of the XELASTEC, i bought the SednaEarfit crystal.

That being said, the fit with my KEF mu3’s is amazing for the ML size. it’s like they’re glued to the inside of my ears. The sound is awesome.

do you think I should grab some XELASTEC’s too for comparison, in the ML size obviously.

Thanks again!


----------



## Canabuc

Aevum said:


> god damn you AKG...
> 
> i have the AKG N400, and they sound great but pairing is awful, touch controls do what they want, ANC is a joke. I got tired of putting them in their case and finding them dead when i wanted to use them since the 3rd pin on the right earbud sometimes doesn't rise the whole distance. or the magnetic locking doesn't make sure that the earbuds are sitting straight, Worst of all, even in AAC or SBC i couldn't make them sync with either VLC or Youtube.
> 
> ...



Are you using an equalizer with your Freebuds pro? I have lowered the mids bass tiniest bit and upped the treble and the sound has improved quite a bit.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

Luke Skywalker said:


> do you think I should grab some XELASTEC’s too for comparison, in the ML size obviously.
> 
> Thanks again!


I've heard mixed reports on them working for TWS because the stem is longer. You did good with the crystal; if the nozzle on your TWS isn't close to normal-IEM long, then I'd pass on the XELASTEC. Pretty sure they don't make a TWS variant, but I could be wrong.


----------



## Canabuc

Started listening to my Fiil last night and man I forgot how good they sound after going through so many other earbuds testing.  

They have great mid and treble but still have deep clean bass.

In fact I listen to them against the MT and they sound 95%as good and in some songs better that need more high end.


----------



## clerkpalmer

Seems like M&D is only selling the MW08 themselves? No Amazon or Best Buy? I’ve dealt with them before but I prefer zero hassle returns etc. I wonder if this is just temporary.


----------



## tinyman392

clerkpalmer said:


> Seems like M&D is only selling the MW08 themselves? No Amazon or Best Buy? I’ve dealt with them before but I prefer zero hassle returns etc. I wonder if this is just temporary.


They recently just released the product, I’m sure they’ll have other resellers.


----------



## gnychis

Does anyone know what happened to the FiiO UTWS3?  Seems very difficult to find after not having been out very long.  I'd really love a good MMCX connector for my SE846 before deciding to jump to something full bluetooth, though you all have some very interesting models here that I'm looking over.  The TRN BT20S Pro seems to be getting thrashed in reviews, so I was hoping the UTWS3 would be better.


----------



## tinyman392

gnychis said:


> Does anyone know what happened to the FiiO UTWS3?  Seems very difficult to find after not having been out very long.  I'd really love a good MMCX connector for my SE846 before deciding to jump to something full bluetooth, though you all have some very interesting models here that I'm looking over.  The TRN BT20S Pro seems to be getting thrashed in reviews, so I was hoping the UTWS3 would be better.


Both are fine to be honest.  I have very few issues with the TRN and very few with the UTWS3.  That said, you’ll either need to ship in from China to get the UTWS3 or wait for Amazon to get stock of the MMCX model again; no clue when that’ll happen.  Shure has their own TWS adapters as well, I haven’t tried them though; they’re on the pricier side.


----------



## gnychis

thanks a lot! I did see the Shure TWS ones but can't get over the call in only one ear thing in addition to the price  Maybe I'll try the TRN ones while waiting for the UTWS3.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

tinyman392 said:


> Both are fine to be honest.  I have very few issues with the TRN and very few with the UTWS3.  That said, you’ll either need to ship in from China to get the UTWS3 or wait for Amazon to get stock of the MMCX model again; no clue when that’ll happen.  Shure has their own TWS adapters as well, I haven’t tried them though; they’re on the pricier side.


Heard mixed reports on Shure's MMCX connector compatibility. It's available, but may not work with all IEMs.


----------



## tinyman392

gnychis said:


> thanks a lot! I did see the Shure TWS ones but can't get over the call in only one ear thing in addition to the price  Maybe I'll try the TRN ones while waiting for the UTWS3.


I haven't tried calls with the TRN or UTWS3, so I can't comment on that.  I'm not sure if it has changed, but I know a lot of early TWS headphones did not support stereo for phone calls in general.  


miserybeforethemusic said:


> Heard mixed reports on Shure's MMCX connector compatibility. It's available, but may not work with all IEMs.


Hm, interesting, I wouldn't know for sure.  Though @gnychis mentioned his SE846, I'm sure the Shure adapter would work for that; it'd be incredibly stupid of Shure if it didn't.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

tinyman392 said:


> Hm, interesting, I wouldn't know for sure.  Though @gnychis mentioned his SE846, I'm sure the Shure adapter would work for that; it'd be incredibly stupid of Shure if it didn't.


True, true. I'd be significantly more concerned if it didn't work within their own ecosystem. For the 846, I don't see why they wouldn't. The caveat I'll give, however, is towards just how fragile Shure's connectors have been for me in the past. I would avoid constantly swapping the connector, if possible. My SE215s didn't last a week due to connector fatigue (was trying to do something similar with TRN's original BT neckband).


----------



## TK33 (Apr 7, 2021)

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Heard mixed reports on Shure's MMCX connector compatibility. It's available, but may not work with all IEMs.


It supposedly sounds great with the SE846 and has preset profiles for Shure IEMs.  Not sure why it wouldnt work with other IEMs (if you can get over the profile name being different from the actual IEM) since third party MMCX cables seem to work with all of my Shure IEMs. Currently use a Meze Rai cable with my SE846, Linsoul balanced cable with my SE535s and Shure BT2 with my SE425s.  SE535s lasted 7 years with almost daily use until I had to get the MMCX connectors repaired. Havent gotten the Shure TWS adapter myself though because I still prefer wired and the one side mic thing that the OP pointed out is just silly in my opinion (bad design choice by Shure). Hoping they fix this with a v2 adapter.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

TK33 said:


> It supposedly sounds great with the SE846 and has preset profiles for Shure IEMs.  Not sure why it wouldnt work with other IEMs (if you can get over the profile name being different from the actual IEM) since third party MMCX cables seem to work with all of my Shure IEMs. Currently use a Meze Rai cable with my SE846, Linsoul balanced cable with my SE535s and Shure BT2 with my SE425s.  SE535s lasted 7 years with almost daily use until I had to get the MMCX connectors repaired. Havent gotten the Shure TWS adapter myself though because I still prefer wired and the one side mic thing that the OP pointed out is just silly in my opinion (bad design choice by Shure). Hoping they fix this with a v2 adapter.


It's not so much the cable compatibility with Shure IEMs as it is the compatibility of Shure cables with other IEMs. While all MMCX connectors look similar, they are not all the same. Some have recessed cups and some are keyed to prevent rotation, for example. These will either stress the connector on your IEM or just not make a solid electrical connection in the first place; neither is good for longevity.

Sometimes, that cheap cable is cheap because the parts are cheap. Not a universal truth, but still a valid lesson learned.


----------



## tiagopinto

erockg said:


> KLH Fusion.  Wide soundstage.  Bass punches.  Love the sound.  Voice controls are awesome.  BT strong indoors.  Calls today were flawless.  Clear both ways.  Case has Qi.  Fit is great and they are very light.



Very interesting. Does voice control work well? What’s the Environmental Noise Cancellation? Does this mean they have hearthrough? How does it behave with wind noise?

How does the sound compare to the MT... or others? Thanks!


----------



## tinyman392

TK33 said:


> It supposedly sounds great with the SE846 and has preset profiles for Shure IEMs.  Not sure why it wouldnt work with other IEMs (if you can get over the profile name being different from the actual IEM) since third party MMCX cables seem to work with all of my Shure IEMs. Currently use a Meze Rai cable with my SE846, Linsoul balanced cable with my SE535s and Shure BT2 with my SE425s.  SE535s lasted 7 years with almost daily use until I had to get the MMCX connectors repaired. Havent gotten the Shure TWS adapter myself though because I still prefer wired and the one side mic thing that the OP pointed out is just silly in my opinion (bad design choice by Shure). Hoping they fix this with a v2 adapter.



The shaping of the housing around the MMCX connector could create issues.  I don't know what Shure looks like, but I'm sure it's fine.  AKG's connector on the N5005 is recessed if I'm not mistaken.  There's a note on their page saying that N5005 connectors won't work with their other MMCX headphones.


----------



## erockg

tiagopinto said:


> Very interesting. Does voice control work well? What’s the Environmental Noise Cancellation? Does this mean they have hearthrough? How does it behave with wind noise?
> 
> How does the sound compare to the MT... or others? Thanks!


Yes, I'm really surprised that the voice control works so well.  I think ENC is just for calls.  They don't have ANC.  I thought they did, but no.  That said, they have pretty good isolation with the tips included.  I haven't used them outside yet.  They are louder than the MW08, which bums me out.  Really love the MW08, but on some albums they just don't punch up the volume the way I like.  I don't have the MT's anymore to test.  Too many issues with the MT so I returned them.


----------



## TK33

miserybeforethemusic said:


> It's not so much the cable compatibility with Shure IEMs as it is the compatibility of Shure cables with other IEMs. While all MMCX connectors look similar, they are not all the same. Some have recessed cups and some are keyed to prevent rotation, for example. These will either stress the connector on your IEM or just not make a solid electrical connection in the first place; neither is good for longevity.
> 
> Sometimes, that cheap cable is cheap because the parts are cheap. Not a universal truth, but still a valid lesson learned.


Understood. I think that is why I keep coming back to this site to see what valuable feedback others have based on their experience.  I only mentioned my experience with the Shure MMCX connectors in response to your post re the SE215s lasting a week.  It just seems the user experience varies quite a bit so I wanted to note that not all people who use Shure IEMs have had the same experience with failure of the MMCX connectors.  YMMV.  Anyway, this is probably not the forum to debate Shure,s MMCX connectors but to address their TWS adapter.  I was just adding my thoughts on why I passed on the Shure TWS1 (in agreement with the posts above).


----------



## erockg (Apr 7, 2021)

TK33 said:


> Understood. I think that is why I keep coming back to this site to see what valuable feedback others have based on their experience.  I only mentioned my experience with the Shure MMCX connectors in response to your post re the SE215s lasting a week.  It just seems the user experience varies quite a bit so I wanted to note that not all people who use Shure IEMs have had the same experience with failure of the MMCX connectors.  YMMV.  Anyway, this is probably not the forum to debate Shure,s MMCX connectors but to address their TWS adapter.  I was just adding my thoughts on why I passed on the Shure TWS1 (in agreement with the posts above).


I had the Shure TW1.  They're nice.  They do work with all of Shures IEM.  Never had an issue with a failure of the MMCX connection.  They would drop out every now and then, even after the new firmware fixes.  Passthrough worked very well and I never had an issue on calls.  The case is huge.  You can't save EQ settings within the app to the buds unless your music is stored locally on your phone.  Can't EQ Apple Music or Spotify.  They don't fit as well with a two pin adapter and different IEM's.  I wanted them to so badly, but in the end returned them.  I prefer the Fostex and the BT20S.  Both these models are modular and let you change the connectors.


----------



## tinyman392 (Apr 7, 2021)

erockg said:


> I had the Shure TW1.  They're nice.  They do work with all of Shures IEM.  Never had an issue with a failure of the MMCX connection.  They would drop out every now and then, even after the new firmware fixes.  Passthrough worked very well and I never had an issue on calls.  The case is huge.  You can't save EQ settings within the app to the buds unless your music is stored locally on your phone.  Can't EQ Apple Music or Spotify.  They don't fit as well with a two pin adapter and different IEM's.  I wanted them to so badly, but in the end returned them.  I prefer the Fostex and the BT20S.  Both these models are modular and let you change the connectors.



That is a huge plus with the BT20s and Fostex designs, the modularity of them.  Though if you're after an EQ, Fiio's neckband (LC-BT2) has an excellent 10-band EQ.  Since the EQ saves to the neckband, it works with anything


----------



## samandhi

gnychis said:


> Does anyone know what happened to the FiiO UTWS3?  Seems very difficult to find after not having been out very long.  I'd really love a good MMCX connector for my SE846 before deciding to jump to something full bluetooth, though you all have some very interesting models here that I'm looking over.  The TRN BT20S Pro seems to be getting thrashed in reviews, so I was hoping the UTWS3 would be better.





tinyman392 said:


> Both are fine to be honest.  I have very few issues with the TRN and very few with the UTWS3.  That said, you’ll either need to ship in from China to get the UTWS3 or wait for Amazon to get stock of the MMCX model again; no clue when that’ll happen.  Shure has their own TWS adapters as well, I haven’t tried them though; they’re on the pricier side.


From Shenzhenaudio site:

*Pre-order: This product is expected to ship in April, Thank you for your understanding!*

But that is the extent of the information I have been able to find. I look every day when I get home from work...


----------



## tinyman392

samandhi said:


> From Shenzhenaudio site:
> 
> *Pre-order: This product is expected to ship in April, Thank you for your understanding!*
> 
> But that is the extent of the information I have been able to find. I look every day when I get home from work...



I'd assume that it's on backorder or something?


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

samandhi said:


> From Shenzhenaudio site:
> 
> *Pre-order: This product is expected to ship in April, Thank you for your understanding!*
> 
> But that is the extent of the information I have been able to find. I look every day when I get home from work...





tinyman392 said:


> I'd assume that it's on backorder or something?


Most likely just ran out of buffer on the supply chain. I'm surprised a lot of companies have been able to stay relatively on top of production, but my guess is Fiio ran out of something required to generate new inventory and had to wait on a re-up. Considering how hard it's getting to get your hands on good silicon, that'd be my first suspicion.


----------



## Canabuc (Apr 7, 2021)

Lot of good cheap ANC Earbuds on Amazon now.  Tozo NC2,Boltune hybrid elite. 

Anyone ever hear the Lavanda Lune? Adorably has and chip as the xm3 with ANC, ip66, and right now about 90$ in Canada or about 70$


----------



## Canabuc

Also had a workout session with the Fiil T1pro and it was great.  Sound is very dynamic with much better treble than the MT.

For those interested there is a modified version of the Chinese app.  It is now in English so no issues with setting things up or not being aware what your are doing. 
The only negative is the voice prompts in the firmware are still in Chinese but this is really only for the ANC/ ambient.  And it is quick to learn. 
Best sounding earbuds for under 150$ US. and better than many above that price.


----------



## Canabuc

These are my final rankings for sound only until the next wave of high end buds come out. 

Fiil T1 pro: 8.5 overall
 Bass 8.75 Mids 8 Treble 8.75

MT: 8.6 overall 
B 9 M 8.5 T 8.25

Freebuds pro: 8.4 overall
B 8.5 M 8.75 T 8

Jabra active75t:  8.1 overall
B 8.75 M 7.25 T 8.25

MTW2: 8.4 overall
B 8.5 M 8.25  T 8.5

JBL club pro+: 8.6 overall
B 9.25 M 8.25 T 8.25

Sony xm3 : 8.33 overall
B 7.75 M 8.5 T 8.75

Technics eaz70w: 8.25 overall
B 7.25 M 9 T 8.5

Jabra 85t: 8.1 overall
B 8.5 M 8.5 T 7.25

Galaxy buds pro: 8.33 overall
B 8.5 M 7.75 T 8.75

Galaxy buds plus: 8 overall
B 8.25 M 8.25  T 7.5

Liberty 2 pro: 8.25 overall
B 8.75 M 8 T 8


----------



## Canabuc (Apr 7, 2021)

My ANC/ambient rankings: 

Freebuds pro  8.75/8.5
Xm3  8.75.8.75
85t 8.75.8.75
75t 8/8.75
T1pro 6.75/4
MTW2  6.75/8.5
Eaz70w  8.5/8.25
Jbl 3.5/8.25
Buds pro  7.5/9


----------



## Canabuc (Apr 7, 2021)

Features rankings which includes full controls on the buds, having anc and ambient, battery life
wireless charging, single buds use,  ip rating etc.

Freebuds pro 8.75 (no official ip)

85t 8.75 (master slave)

75t active 8.5 or 8.75 if qi case(best up reading) 

Mtw2 8 (no qi, so so battery big case but premium and best controls. master slave)

Jbl 8.75 (if anc would work would be 9.25 missing full controls)

MT 7.5 ( bad case, no anc, no qi )

Buds pro 8.5 (no full controls ok battery 2nd best ip)

Buds plus 8.5 (no anc) 

Liberty 2 pro 7 (no anc or ambient bigger case no full controls) 

Xm3 7 ( huge case, no qi, no full controls) 

Technics Eaz70w 7.75 (bad case no qi mediocre battery) 

T1 pro 8.5 has everything including EQ and app but over sensitive touch controls hinese firmware case not premium but fine


----------



## tinyman392

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Most likely just ran out of buffer on the supply chain. I'm surprised a lot of companies have been able to stay relatively on top of production, but my guess is Fiio ran out of something required to generate new inventory and had to wait on a re-up. Considering how hard it's getting to get your hands on good silicon, that'd be my first suspicion.


A lot of companies have ran into supply chain issues


----------



## tinyman392

*Fiio UTWS3 vs TRN BT20s Pro*






Adapters for normal detatchable cable IEMs to turn them into the next TWS setup have become more and more popular over the years. Fiio and TRN being among the first to enter this area which has recently also seen the likes of Shure, Fostex, and iBasso enter the scene. Despite this, the Fiio UTWS3 and TRN BT20s Pro remain the cheapest options which have an included charging case.

*Design, Case, Comfort*

Fiio utilizes a rectangular plastic case with a metal top while the TRN has a leather wrapped plastic case which is more ovular in shape. In overall dimensions, they are quite similar in external size. The Fiio has a more open internal setup allowing it to house IEMs with a larger housing while the TRN doesn’t offer such spacing. TRN does offer an accessory pouch which can store stuff like a charging cable or maybe even a normal IEM cable, however.  Overall, despite the overall similar dimensions, the TRN does feel more pocketable than the Fiio.  I'll have to admit, though, neither are something I'd call super pocketable due to their sheer size.  





The Fiio adapter itself is quite a bit larger than the TRN with the flexible rubbering being quite a bit more rigid than the TRN. This actually makes the TRN a little more comfortable to wear on the ear as a whole. Fiio’s button is very soft touch and doesn’t require much force to push while the TRN offers more resistance like a normal button does. Unfortunately, this means that in order to push it you’re kind of pushing the entire adapter against your head.





*Features*

The feature set of the two adapters kind of focus on different areas. Fiio looks more towards software as they offer an app that has a ton of control over the headphones. This gives you customization about how the single buttons on each adapter functions; the UTWS3 offers 3 different control schemes. The BT20s only has it’s default set up with no app support. As such, there is no updatable firmware offered by TRN. That’s not to say that Fiio is perfect either as firmware update support only applies if you have an Android device; I’ve had issues getting the Android app to recognize the UTWS3 so updating it hasn’t be possible for me.





The TRN has one major feature that is overlooked by most. The connector can actually be changed and detaches from the adapter using a 2-pin setup. This allows the single TRN adapter to be used with MMCX, 2-pin setups, and maybe even others. Fostex is the only other manufacturer to offer such functionality and it allows your single adapter to be used with a wider range of headphones. While Fiio has their UTWS3 in 0.78mm 2-pin and MMCX setups, you’d have to buy a separate UTWS3 for each. With TRN you can buy a single BT20s, then buy the adapter for your adapter to support multiple.





*Sound*

Both of these adapters are capable of delivering good quality sound to the ears, but keep in mind that if an IEM is picky about source, that may be the bigger issue when choosing an adapter as it can be very difficult to choose a good adapter for said IEM.  In general, the Fiio adapter seems to be an overall brighter sound, more akin to the iPhone 3.5mm adapter that they used to come supplied with. The TRN is a little warmer overall giving a slight mid-bass lift. Unfortunately that’s all I can really say as I don’t have the tools to measure this sort of stuff.

I've tried looking for some measurements and specs for these, but they're harder to come by.  I know the Fiio outputs 25mW @ 32ohms and 38mW @ 16ohms.  Power numbers for the TRN more difficult to come by.  Even harder are output impedance numbers which will give you a better idea of how they would influence the sound of an IEM; many of which are known for having pretty drastic impedance swings at times.  

*Bugs?*

Both of these adapters come in at 80 dollars, and are the cheapest option when it comes to TWS adapters that come with a charging case. Both of these have a weird volume bug on iOS (maybe Android as well). The UTWS3 will randomly connect to the iPhone and set the iPhone’s volume to 100% while the BT20s will randomly set it to ≈62.5%. So upon connection you have to reset the volume where you want it. Suffice to say, I’ve had the unfortunate effect of blasting out my ears a couple times; you learn quickly about this bug.

Fiio has the other bug as I have had issues updating the firmware on my UTWS3. Their support hasn’t been super helpful, after going through the normal troubleshooting steps to get the Android app to recognize the UTWS3, their last suggestion was to go to a store and use a demo phone on the floor to update the adapters.


----------



## Canabuc

Anybody have the Status Between Pro yet?  Assuming I return the MT, am wondering how they sound, if they have any glitches of their own? 
Might replace my MT with them.


----------



## jant71

JVC with a new budget Earpod like model. Red looks nice...




Only about the angle and the fit supposed to be barely there and having good sound.









10mm driver, 5.0 Class 1 and full controls. IPX4 and 6 hours per charge. Priced at around $49 converted from Yen but so was the similar closed model shaped like this which $29.99 when it came out in the US. A8T Should follow the A7T which is now $25 and gets solid reviews.


----------



## Canabuc (Apr 8, 2021)

I am modifying the readings as some may feel there is little difference.  These are all great earbuds overall and for the most part anyone will make you enjoy your music. 
The changes here represent a way to better distinguish Bass Mids and Treble.  

So you can see which are more balanced vs Bass prominent ....
These are my final rankings for sound only until the next wave of high end buds come out. 

Fiil T1 pro: 8.33 overall
 Bass 8.75 Mids 8 Treble 8.25

MT: 8.33 overall
B 9.25 M 8 T 7.75

JBL club pro+: 8.33
B 9 M 7.75 T 8.25

MTW2: 8.08
B 8 M 8.25  T 8

Sony xm3 : 8.08
B 7.5 M 8 T 8.75

Freebuds pro: 8.08
B 8.25 M 8.25 T 7.75

Galaxy buds pro: 8 overall
B 8 M 7.5 T 8.5

Jabra active75t:  7.83 overall
B 8.75 M 7 T 8

Technics eaz70w: 7.83 overall
B 6.75 M 8.75 T 8

Jabra 85t: 7.75 overall
B 8.5 M 8 T 6.75

Galaxy buds plus: 7.5 overall
B 7.5 M 8  T 7

Liberty 2 pro: 7.5 overall
B 8.5 M 6.5 T 7.25


Also just a note. These are using the stock equalizer in the app or wavelet to adjust the sound to what I perceive as best. 
Also volume wise is that is important..

Loudest In terms of overall volume MT, L2P XM3

Then 85t, T1pro JBL
Then Huawei, 75t, Buds +&pro

Worst are MTW2, Technics


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## Canabuc (Apr 8, 2021)

Based on all my rankings 
If you want great all arounders then  T1pro, Freebuds pro, Jabra would be my top choices.

If ANC isn't important the JBL and MT T1 pro would be tops for sound alone

Bassheads go for Jabra, MT JBL, L2P 

Treble heads go for Sony buds pro or Technics 

Balanced goes to T1pro Mtw2,JBL freebuds pro


----------



## clerkpalmer

Is the fiil t1pro available in the US? Do I want the pro or the lite for cycling? Thanks!


----------



## clerkpalmer

Canabuc said:


> Based on all my rankings
> If you want great all arounders then  T1pro, Freebuds pro, Jabra would be my top choices.
> 
> If ANC isn't important the JBL and MT T1 pro would be tops for sound alone
> ...


Have you heard the MW07? Any impressions on those versus the JBL? Rtings liked the JBL but didn’t think they were mind blowing or anything.


----------



## CocaCola15 (Apr 8, 2021)

Canabuc said:


> Anybody have the Status Between Pro yet?  Assuming I return the MT, am wondering how they sound, if they have any glitches of their own?
> Might replace my MT with them.


I've had a pair for a month, and IMHO they are the closest to listening to full-sized phones I have heard so far. I've owned many brands/models of TW phones (Sony, Senn, Nuarl ... a half dozen more) and returned or sold them. Now down to the MTs and the M1+ along with the Oluv-tuned Earfun Free Pro (not bad, but I wish I had not bought them). The BPs offer the best sound of what I've heard. I have had no issues so far otherwise, considering I got them early on Indiegogo for $79. You've seen the Youtube reviews, and I agree with El Jefe, Gamesky, EBPMan, TechRadar and soundstagesolo.com on these. Perfect? No. But they all like the Between Pros very much. I am not one who cares much about call quality, so I can't comment on that. But overall, I find them to be a very fine, fun listening experience. Unless I have durability/connection issues with the Between Pros, they are not going anywhere. And Status, to me, is a solid company. I absolutely love their relatively inexpensive BT-1 on-ear phones, so I had some prior experience with their sound quality offering.

Oh, and I am not returning the MTs either, I also find them to be very good price to performance-wise, got them for $129. They connect and stay connected I did send back my first pair for those reasons (connection), but whatever they did worked for the pair I own. And I also love the CA M1+ as well. My three TW pairs still here.


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## Canabuc (Apr 8, 2021)

clerkpalmer said:


> Have you heard the MW07? Any impressions on those versus the JBL? Rtings liked the JBL but didn’t think they were mind blowing or anything.


Rtings reviews take with grain of salt and read the fine print. They test with SBC and don't adjust the equalizer.  JBL has best equalizer out there which makes these buds go from meh to great!

Have not heard the mwo7 am tempted on the plus model which is being sold at Costco for great price but based on poor anc I am not sure what they add over my current stable.
The mw08 sound intriguing but cost is a bit high for me.


----------



## Canabuc

clerkpalmer said:


> Is the fiil t1pro available in the US? Do I want the pro or the lite for cycling? Thanks!


Only earfun pro is which I guess can be equalized with wavelet.
T1pro I got from Aliexpress and they cost me about 60$ us shipped.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

Canabuc said:


> Anybody have the Status Between Pro yet?  Assuming I return the MT, am wondering how they sound, if they have any glitches of their own?
> Might replace my MT with them.


Still waiting. The rep on their Indiegogo campaign insists they'll fulfill all orders this month, so we'll see.

Think I'm going to mellow out on TWS for a while. Had some money burning in my pocket, but couldn't bring myself to pick up any of the big players (Grado, KEF, KLH, etc). Probably sitting in that "waiting for the next generation" camp along with some others here, especially with regard to bandwidth stability on aptX Adaptive. Really wish I could take advantage of that on the Noble Falcon Pro, but it's practically codec-driven distortion hades any time I try to use it. Have even had a OnePlus 8T update since and that didn't seem to help at all.

Happy with the MT's performance now that I figured out Location Services was the major culprit there. I still love its sound signature and think it does a phenomenal job of flirting with "warm" and not venturing into "dark" territory quite like the MW07 GO did with stock tips. HearThrough works superb, latency is fantastic, resolution is great for the price, and the in-app EQ is more than robust enough for most listeners. Might be a bold claim, but I see them as the current 99 Classics of the TWS space. Comfy? Check. Sounds great? Check. Good-looking? Check.

I probably find myself rotating most between the MT, NFP, and Technics AZ70W at this point. @Canabuc and I seem to have different preferences as I'm positively smitten with the Technics. I find it to be fairly bass-accurate, but can see why others would consider them bass-light. If I need that extension on the top and bottom ends, I'll reach for the Noble. Warmth? I'm going with the Cambridge MT. I could rotate through all three of these just based on what I think my ears need/want at the time and not feel like I'm missing out at this point. Might toss in the JBL as a wildcard from time to time.

The UEs, while very good, really only come out when I know I'll be moving around a bunch and not taking any calls; I favor its fit over just about every other feature and have received criticism on how I sounded over the phone on more than one occasion; I have a feeling that my longer hair causes the microphones to go haywire, so that may not affect you as much.

I still stand by my recommendation for the Noble Falcon 1 for a sub-$100 choice, though it's certainly a crowded space of similarly-competent pairs. Don't think any of them quite have the curb appeal of those backlit Noble shells, though. Still, you've heard plenty of suggestions for the Fiil T1 Pro as well. The Earfun Free Pro is still my favorite tiny bud, especially at its price bracket, but I've just found myself spoiled by the other items in the stable; eventually I'll sit down and really dial in EQ to see if I can get rid of that stubborn midbass bloom without losing all of my impact cues.

It's honestly the Sennheiser CX400BT that somewhat sits in that no-man's land where I can't really give it a solid recommendation. Sound signature is great, but the stock tips didn't work for me and, with a nozzle that small, you're pretty limited on aftermarket pairs you can use. It's the comfort I can't get past and I just could not get it to fit in a way that didn't generate hotspots on my outer ears. I understand the lack of supporting features is made up with the MTW2, but I really think the 400BT needed HearThrough at a minimum, especially with those comfort concerns. Having to take these things in and out of my ear constantly to hold a conversation leads to early ear fatigue, something I think is impossible to ignore at any price point.

So what's next? Well, the R5 and WH3 are set to arrive tomorrow. Edifier TWS1 Pro are still sitting in the ether and have been since they allegedly got stateside late March. Status is supposed to finish shipping all of their existing Between Pro orders by the end of the month.

Until then: Hurry Up and Wait 


clerkpalmer said:


> Have you heard the MW07? Any impressions on those versus the JBL? Rtings liked the JBL but didn’t think they were mind blowing or anything.


Rtings can be weird with their overall impressions sometimes. Fwiw I have yet to find one of their AutoEQ curves that doesn't sound funky to my ears. My guess is they have a specific preference and they're fiercely loyal to it. In terms of overall signature, I guess I can see why Rtings was underwhelmed, but here's what my ears hear:

Sub-bass - Well-extended, good decay, not overpowering
Bass - Refined, accurate, fast for a DD
Midbass - One of the higher points on this set IMO. Has a good amount of impact without blooming into the mids. Very Harman-esque
Midrange - Just fine. Not the most articulate pair out there, but worthy of being in the upper tiers for TWS. Hifiman probably have them beat hardcore here
Upper Midrange - Neither honky nor boxy. Just what I like. Sennheiser pulls the edge on vocal timbres, but the JBL pull ahead in fast transient response and a much smoother midrange overall. Will get sharp on material that was recorded hot, but it has to be really hot. These are fairly forgiving of bad source material.
Treble - Extends better than most TWS. Not much to write about, but you get a good sense of air in between instruments
If you're familiar at all with how JBL pro audio gear sounds, you can kinda get an idea for how the Club Pro+ are tuned. The average Joe is going to put them in and say "wow, these are really clean" and probably not have much else in descriptors. In my opinion, though, the Club Pro+ are a cut above in terms of technical ability and would definitely fit well in your rotation. The EQ is JBL's real hidden weapon, but I'm such a fan of its stock tuning that all I've really done with it is create a flat EQ that's +4dB over neutral. Helps with volume control when things get louder outside. Also has one of the better AAC implementations I've come across and it doesn't seem to suffer from the same occasional grain that the Technics can pull out of material.


----------



## Canabuc

CocaCola15 said:


> I've had a pair for a month, and IMHO they are the closest to listening to full-sized phones I have heard so far. I've owned many brands/models of TW phones (Sony, Senn, Nuarl ... a half dozen more) and returned or sold them. Now down to the MTs and the M1+ along with the Oluv-tuned Earfun Free Pro (not bad, but I wish I had not bought them). The BPs offer the best sound of what I've heard. I have had no issues so far otherwise, considering I got them early on Indiegogo for $79. You've seen the Youtube reviews, and I agree with El Jefe, Gamesky, EBPMan, TechRadar and soundstagesolo.com on these. Perfect? No. But they all like the Between Pros very much. I am not one who cares much about call quality, so I can't comment on that. But overall, I find them to be a very fine, fun listening experience. Unless I have durability/connection issues with the Between Pros, they are not going anywhere. And Status, to me, is a solid company. I absolutely love their relatively inexpensive BT-1 on-ear phones, so I had some prior experience with their sound quality offering.
> 
> Oh, and I am not returning the MTs either, I also find them to be very good price to performance-wise, got them for $129. They connect and stay connected I did send back my first pair for those reasons (connection), but whatever they did worked for the pair I own. And I also love the CA M1+ as well. My three TW pairs still here.


My concern with the BP are they look very bulky in that they stick far out of the ears. I would keep 1 of them or MT so am wondering how they compare sound wise.

As for the online reviewers you mentioned I have stated before that I don't trust reviews when the merchandise is free and you get paid by affiliate purchases. 
They all love the Liberty air 2 pro also which may have been the fastest I have ever returned earbuds.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

Canabuc said:


> They all love the Liberty air 2 pro also which may have been the fastest I have ever returned earbuds.


So does my son and I even gifted him the MW07 GO. He gives both an equal amount of listening, too.

Some people just prefer that type of tuning and I thought it was configurable enough to keep around. Things dramatically improve after running SoundID as well. Not trying to detract from your opinions of donated audio gear; it's an issue every reviewer faces as well. Heck, I've paid for everything I've got here and I still can't put the words together to describe them sometimes.


----------



## clerkpalmer

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Still waiting. The rep on their Indiegogo campaign insists they'll fulfill all orders this month, so we'll see.
> 
> Think I'm going to mellow out on TWS for a while. Had some money burning in my pocket, but couldn't bring myself to pick up any of the big players (Grado, KEF, KLH, etc). Probably sitting in that "waiting for the next generation" camp along with some others here, especially with regard to bandwidth stability on aptX Adaptive. Really wish I could take advantage of that on the Noble Falcon Pro, but it's practically codec-driven distortion hades any time I try to use it. Have even had a OnePlus 8T update since and that didn't seem to help at all.
> 
> ...


You definitely have me intrigued and I need a new toy. Be nice to find them on sale.


----------



## clerkpalmer

Canabuc said:


> Only earfun pro is which I guess can be equalized with wavelet.
> T1pro I got from Aliexpress and they cost me about 60$ us shipped.


Yeah unfortunately no wavelet for me on iOS. I don’t feel like the Ali waiting game.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

clerkpalmer said:


> You definitely have me intrigued and I need a new toy. Be nice to find them on sale.


They're really good. When I was putting them through the paces, this track stuck out to be as particularly fun on the JBL. That sub-bass energy can be infectious.


----------



## Canabuc

miserybeforethemusic said:


> So does my son and I even gifted him the MW07 GO. He gives both an equal amount of listening, too.
> 
> Some people just prefer that type of tuning and I thought it was configurable enough to keep around. Things dramatically improve after running SoundID as well. Not trying to detract from your opinions of donated audio gear; it's an issue every reviewer faces as well. Heck, I've paid for everything I've got here and I still can't put the words together to describe them sometimes.


Actually if you look at my opinion of the Technics most of my criticism is the case  battery life and low volume. I find they shine in the mids but lack enough Bass that music outside of vocals sounds lifeless.
And no it's not because I am a basshead. The Sony and buds pro from Samsung have great Treble and livelier sound without being Bass heavy.

As for libertry air 2 pro. They lacked volume were uncomfortable with every tip. Poor as he'll battery life with anc. The sound seemed to have good mids but tinny Treble and bass was not good either. I would not recommend them over any warbud I mentioned  and there are many new budget anc earbuds out now that are much better at half the price.


----------



## Canabuc

clerkpalmer said:


> Yeah unfortunately no wavelet for me on iOS. I don’t feel like the Ali waiting game.


I am in Canada and it took me 3 weeks to get. Given they were not going to be my only pair I didn't mind waiting especially given the price. Sound really impressive. Ios app don't know about. But Spotify and others have eq in its apparently.


----------



## Ascariss

bladefd said:


> Sony WF-1000xm4 has been certified with Bluetooth 5.2 but no aptx/aptx HD. Seems they may be going for LDAC, and I'm sure it will have AAC/SBC.
> 
> 
> https://www.notebookcheck.net/The-S...les-out-aptX-or-aptX-HD-support.531036.0.html



Supposedly the new MT2822 is on a new manufacturing process so should improved power efficiency, if this will be enough to provide decent battery life with LDAC is unknown.

I will mention this, Sony did toy with adding LDAC to the wf-1000xm3 during the development, but the play time with LDAC was rather poor and the main complaints about the wf-1000x was the mediocre battery life and Sony didn't want to repeat that, so LDAC was left out.

What the notebookcheck article does not mention is that the wf-1000xm4 model on the FCC is labelled as a prototype rather than pre-production, which is interesting as all previous sony TWS models were pre-production. Maybe covid is to blame, who knows.


----------



## bladefd

New firmware releasing for MT soon according to CA customer support. I contacted them due to volume automatically dropping in half when I initially play music the first time after I put them on. That's when I was told of new firmware releasing very soon.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

Canabuc said:


> Actually if you look at my opinion of the Technics most of my criticism is the case  battery life and low volume. I find they shine in the mids but lack enough Bass that music outside of vocals sounds lifeless.
> And no it's not because I am a basshead. The Sony and buds pro from Samsung have great Treble and livelier sound without being Bass heavy.
> 
> As for libertry air 2 pro. They lacked volume were uncomfortable with every tip. Poor as he'll battery life with anc. The sound seemed to have good mids but tinny Treble and bass was not good either. I would not recommend them over any warbud I mentioned  and there are many new budget anc earbuds out now that are much better at half the price.


We can agree to disagree. I found plenty of rewarding qualities with the Soundcore and things get remarkably better once you've gone through the SoundID tuning. I know comfort can be an issue with those; they're a unique fit. Guess they worked just fine for my ears. I also have zero issues with the Technics' battery life or output volume. They're fantastic once ANC is on and I usually just throw on HearThrough for the free midbass lift it provides. Haven't charged them up in two weeks and they're still at 2/3 on the case battery indicator. All on stock tips, by the way. In each case, it took time to elicit the _wow _moments and I found more of those with the Technics, to be quite honest. It's unapologetically a 90s living room Hi-Fi kinda sound. Not going to be everybody's preference.

It sounds to me like you favor a V-shaped signature. I know you've mentioned wanting a W or U from time to time, but I honestly think you'd be happier with better-tuned V-shaped pairs.  that doesn't imply you're a basshead, but I think you need to be realistic with what your sound preferences are. It'll help narrow down what to spend your money on later, rather than hopping on whatever flavor of the week has run rampant through the internet circles. I used to think I wanted neutral. Neutral, neutral, neutral. Nope. I wanted _natural_ and I'm a timbre fanatic over just about everything else. Took me over a decade and a lot of money that could have been used better had I been more honest with myself about what I wanted. Please don't take this as a negative; definitely not meant that way.


bladefd said:


> New firmware releasing for MT soon according to CA customer support. I contacted them due to volume automatically dropping in half when I initially play music the first time after I put them on. That's when I was told of new firmware releasing very soon.


Always down for improvements. Thanks for the update!


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## CocaCola15 (Apr 8, 2021)

Canabuc said:


> My concern with the BP are they look very bulky in that they stick far out of the ears. I would keep 1 of them or MT so am wondering how they compare sound wise.
> 
> As for the online reviewers you mentioned I have stated before that I don't trust reviews when the merchandise is free and you get paid by affiliate purchases.
> They all love the Liberty air 2 pro also which may have been the fastest I have ever returned earbuds.


I hear you re design, but they fit well, comfy, so I don't care how they look to others. Don't find them bulky when wearing them at all. And I am a fan of click buttons, not touch controls (the MTs are fine, but I seldom mess with the touch controls for volume, etc., use my phone instead).

But the MTs and the BPs are different animals sound-wise. The former being a warmer signature, as miserybeforethemusic notes, and the latter being a bit v-shaped but not offensively so, with a more pronounced treble, though never harsh.

I also understand the online reviews were people don't pay for the merch. But when they report what I hear, after I have listened (I mean before I watch/read the reviews), what can I say? They didn't convince me that I liked the sound; they verified it. Big difference.

Having said that, if the MTs, the BPs or the M1+ have connectivity issues, then that's another ball of wax. My big care is not ANC or features, it's sound quality and ease of use. I don't really want ANC walking about the city streets. I'd rather get some sense of what's happening. And for home or travel (air travel mainly) listening, I don't use TWs much, I use full-sized noise canceling phones, the Sony M3s right now, or plug in a pair of Ety ER4HR, Philips Fidelio X2HRs or Koss Porta Pros with Yaxi pads (yes, old school fan). Good enough. Sometimes I use the Earstudio ES100 and turn those cabled phones into TWs phones as well. We have so much choice these days right?


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

CocaCola15 said:


> I hear you re design, but they fit well, comfy, so I don't care how they look to others. Don't find them bulky when wearing them at all. And I am a fan of click buttons, not touch controls (the MTs are fine, but I seldom mess with the touch controls for volume, etc., use my phone instead).
> 
> But the MTs and the BPs are different animals sound-wise. The former being a warmer signature, as miserybeforethemusic notes, and the latter being a bit v-shaped but not offensively so, with a more pronounced treble, though never harsh.
> 
> ...


I don't think I've used ANC more than a combined 15 minutes across all of my pairs and that was to prove the concept. I've been a commuter as well and fully understand the merit of good noise isolation/canceling; I favor the former over the latter as it's really hard to implement active ANC without coloring the overall sound signature. Maybe the next major milestone will be improved algorithms to battle wind noise.

It's just a little silly that something like the Moondrop Kanas Pro plugged into a $35 ddHifi dongle can absolutely wallop every TWS, NFP included, in overall sound quality. I managed to skew my perception quite a bit listening only to TWS for a couple weeks, so popping in those KPs was a pretty revelatory moment. So long as they're paired with a BT adapter that can provide 'em adequate power (thinking of your ES100), I don't think there's any comparison in terms of SQ. Don't mean to rain on anybody's parade, but I think that sort of perspective matters. While I don't regret spending what I did for the NFPs and think they're the best-sounding of the bunch to my ears (and second in comfort only to the UE FITS), it's sobering to see how much further there is to go before TWS SQ is as good (or better than) a wired counterpart.


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## CocaCola15 (Apr 8, 2021)

miserybeforethemusic said:


> I don't think I've used ANC more than a combined 15 minutes across all of my pairs and that was to prove the concept. I've been a commuter as well and fully understand the merit of good noise isolation/canceling; I favor the former over the latter as it's really hard to implement active ANC without coloring the overall sound signature. Maybe the next major milestone will be improved algorithms to battle wind noise.
> 
> It's just a little silly that something like the Moondrop Kanas Pro plugged into a $35 ddHifi dongle can absolutely wallop every TWS, NFP included, in overall sound quality. I managed to skew my perception quite a bit listening only to TWS for a couple weeks, so popping in those KPs was a pretty revelatory moment. So long as they're paired with a BT adapter that can provide 'em adequate power (thinking of your ES100), I don't think there's any comparison in terms of SQ. Don't mean to rain on anybody's parade, but I think that sort of perspective matters. While I don't regret spending what I did for the NFPs and think they're the best-sounding of the bunch to my ears (and second in comfort only to the UE FITS), it's sobering to see how much further there is to go before TWS SQ is as good (or better than) a wired counterpart.


Have to agree. Same with Blon 03s and especially with the Etys, using the ES100. I may need to upgrade that toy, I think there are new options on that front. Then again, I have old/aging ears, so my ability to discern the difference is fading fast ... which is fine.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

CocaCola15 said:


> I also understand the online reviews were people don't pay for the merch. But when they report what I hear, after I have listened (I mean before I watch/read the reviews), what can I say? They didn't convince me that I liked the sound; they verified it. Big difference.


Don't forget there's several Head-Fi users who also buy and review their own gear. @Dobrescu George gives his reviews with three shots of espresso and @cleg (Porta-Fi) just kinda tells it like it is. They may not have the production value of the typical TubeTour crowd, but I certainly value their opinions. @cleg , don't think I haven't seen you in here as well. Appreciate everything you and George do.

On the ES100 upgrade, what aren't you a fan of so far? I think the app is that unit's best feature.


----------



## CocaCola15

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Don't forget there's several Head-Fi users who also buy and review their own gear. @Dobrescu George gives his reviews with three shots of espresso and @cleg (Porta-Fi) just kinda tells it like it is. They may not have the production value of the typical TubeTour crowd, but I certainly value their opinions. @cleg , don't think I haven't seen you in here as well. Appreciate everything you and George do.
> 
> On the ES100 upgrade, what aren't you a fan of so far? I think the app is that unit's best feature.


Oh, I am still a fan and the app is amazing. I also use it as pure DAC/amp via USB-C cable to an old LGV30 I picked up for $89. I read that the original creator of the ES100 left EarStudio and was working on an alternative, but lost track of that. Anyway, the ES100 remains the best value I have encountered in sound gadget collection mode. But always looking for the next, best thing. I also track with your "neutral, neutral, neutral" mindset, but then figured out that's not what I really enjoy. Although, I do use the Etys (heavily EQ'd ... there I said it, haha).


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

CocaCola15 said:


> Oh, I am still a fan and the app is amazing. I also use it as pure DAC/amp via USB-C cable to an old LGV30 I picked up for $89. I read that the original creator of the ES100 left EarStudio and was working on an alternative, but lost track of that. Anyway, the ES100 remains the best value I have encountered in sound gadget collection mode. But always looking for the next, best thing. I also track with your "neutral, neutral, neutral" mindset, but then figured out that's not what I really enjoy. Although, I do use the Etys (heavily EQ'd ... there I said it, haha).


I, too, ask for menu substitutions at a 5-star restaurant (I kid, I kid) 

Think you're thinking of the Qudelix 5K. It's a good-looking unit, very reminiscent of the ES100, so I wouldn't be surprised. Kinda interested in it myself, but I just grabbed a second P1 and Blessing 2 locally (since AE finally shipped my 11th anniversary order out today). We'll see if the R5 will do the trick for now; obviously it won't have the microphones, clip, etc, but it'll certainly have the amplification and system-wide MSEB is icing on the cake. Really happy more DAPs are starting to implement a good 2-way BT stack.


----------



## C_Lindbergh

I ended up returning my CA MTs, I do maintain that price to sound quality ratio is prob the best TWS on the market, they're also really comfortable.

But the unreliible BT connection was just too much for me in the end... 2-3 times the last 2 days I've had this bug were they're still connected to my phone despite being put into the case. True wireless are about convnience above all else, the MTs don't really deiliver in that regard.


----------



## CocaCola15

miserybeforethemusic said:


> I, too, ask for menu substitutions at a 5-star restaurant (I kid, I kid)
> 
> Think you're thinking of the Qudelix 5K. It's a good-looking unit, very reminiscent of the ES100, so I wouldn't be surprised. Kinda interested in it myself, but I just grabbed a second P1 and Blessing 2 locally (since AE finally shipped my 11th anniversary order out today). We'll see if the R5 will do the trick for now; obviously it won't have the microphones, clip, etc, but it'll certainly have the amplification and system-wide MSEB is icing on the cake. Really happy more DAPs are starting to implement a good 2-way BT stack.


That's the one. Now I may need to spend $109 I had not intended to spend. Going to see what I can sell, looking for zero sum game. Back to TW chat!


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## CocaCola15

C_Lindbergh said:


> I ended up returning my CA MTs, I do maintain that price to sound quality ratio is prob the best TWS on the market, they're also really comfortable.
> 
> But the unreliible BT connection was just too much for me in the end... 2-3 times the last 2 days I've had this bug were they're still connected to my phone despite being put into the case. True wireless are about convnience above all else, the MTs don't really deiliver in that regard.


That stinks and I don't blame you. For some crazy reason (luck?) the second pair I got, after the price drop, work like a charm. Not a single hiccup since I updated the FW to 1.3.0. (which happened OOB when I turned them on). Sad, really. And there is a report earlier here that they are again updating the FW, but not sure I want it to happen now that mine work!


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## jant71 (Apr 8, 2021)

Nobody really digging the other Cambridge? Seems to have the performance mode, the sound, buttons, the app now and an issue free case. Surprised some are not trading in Touch for a 1+.


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## TK33

CocaCola15 said:


> Oh, I am still a fan and the app is amazing. I also use it as pure DAC/amp via USB-C cable to an old LGV30 I picked up for $89. I read that the original creator of the ES100 left EarStudio and was working on an alternative, but lost track of that. Anyway, the ES100 remains the best value I have encountered in sound gadget collection mode. But always looking for the next, best thing. I also track with your "neutral, neutral, neutral" mindset, but then figured out that's not what I really enjoy. Although, I do use the Etys (heavily EQ'd ... there I said it, haha).


He started a new company called Qudelix.  Great device.  I pre-ordered it at release and my ES100 has been sitting in a storage box under my bed ever since along with my unused TWS, cables, tips etc.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

C_Lindbergh said:


> I ended up returning my CA MTs, I do maintain that price to sound quality ratio is prob the best TWS on the market, they're also really comfortable.
> 
> But the unreliible BT connection was just too much for me in the end... 2-3 times the last 2 days I've had this bug were they're still connected to my phone despite being put into the case. True wireless are about convnience above all else, the MTs don't really deiliver in that regard.


Sorry about the bad break. Any idea what'll replace it?


jant71 said:


> Nobody really digging the other Cambridge? Seems to have the performance mode, the sound, buttons, the app now and an issue free case. Surprised some are not trading in Touch for a 1+.


I vaguely remember @erockg has the M1+ and likes it. Sonically, I woudn't assume it's much different from the Touch now that they've carried over the High Power amplication mode. Might be a good alternative for those who otherwise like the MT, but are having endless grief with the case.


----------



## erockg

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Sorry about the bad break. Any idea what'll replace it?
> 
> I vaguely remember @erockg has the M1+ and likes it. Sonically, I woudn't assume it's much different from the Touch now that they've carried over the High Power amplication mode. Might be a good alternative for those who otherwise like the MT, but are having endless grief with the case.


I did have them.  Sonically, not much of a difference.  I did return them due to fit.  I had an issue with the first gen and thought maybe I could deal, but still, my ears denied me.  Zero issues with the sound, case and BT signal.  App worked well too.


----------



## erockg

Some of you saw me post that I loved the Fostex TM2.  I do, really.  Well, I finally got the 2 pin adapters for the BT20S Pro.  They were 20 bucks off Amazon.  Popped my Moondrop Blessing 2's on them and nice!  A little tight fit to get them in the charging case.  The value is just great.  I'll be returning the Fostex TM2's.  They are awesome, but all-in, they were about 350.  The BT20S MMCX with an optional modular 2-pin adapter cost me 100 from Amazon and I added a 3 year warranty for 8 bucks.  So, 108 as opposed to 350.  I don't need the EQ or passthrough of the Fostex which is only accessible through the app.  Plus, the Fostex case is not a battery case and it's still micro-usb.  That said, I use the IEM's at home.  APP on Zoom calls.  The other gang of TW buds in between .


----------



## C_Lindbergh

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Sorry about the bad break. Any idea what'll replace it?



I'm thinking about the M&D MW08, but I'm not sure I wanna spend that kind of money just before next gen Bluetooth audio LE... :/

Usually when it comes to tech it's just better to buy stuff whenver you have the need for it, but man... Bluetooth Audio LE/LC3 will truely be a game-changer.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

C_Lindbergh said:


> I'm thinking about the M&D MW08, but I'm not sure I wanna spend that kind of money just before next gen Bluetooth audio LE... :/
> 
> Usually when it comes to tech it's just better to buy stuff whenver you have the need for it, but man... Bluetooth Audio LE/LC3 will truely be a game-changer.


Makes sense to wait; aside from the Custom Art Go One (which does have a universal version) or ADV's M5-TWS, there's really not much left out there in the current generation that grabs me.

Any prospects in that LE game? Also, what besides the power management and latency are you anticipating will be better than the existing standards?


----------



## Darkestred

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Sorry about the bad break. Any idea what'll replace it?
> 
> I vaguely remember @erockg has the M1+ and likes it. Sonically, I woudn't assume it's much different from the Touch now that they've carried over the High Power amplication mode. Might be a good alternative for those who otherwise like the MT, but are having endless grief with the case.



The fit is going to be horrendous for the majority - id imagine.  I was interested until i saw they were bullet style.


----------



## Luke Skywalker

tinyman392 said:


> A lot of companies have ran into supply chain issues


----------



## diimaan

Luke Skywalker said:


> Hey dude so it turns out I ordered the wrong type of AZLA tips. Instead of the XELASTEC, i bought the SednaEarfit crystal.
> 
> That being said, the fit with my KEF mu3’s is amazing for the ML size. it’s like they’re glued to the inside of my ears. The sound is awesome.
> 
> ...


The Crystal are the ones I suggested for KEF! XELASTEC won't fit the case of KEF!  But if you want to use it with your IEM's you can order the XELASTEC's


----------



## C_Lindbergh

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Makes sense to wait; aside from the Custom Art Go One (which does have a universal version) or ADV's M5-TWS, there's really not much left out there in the current generation that grabs me.
> 
> Any prospects in that LE game? Also, what besides the power management and latency are you anticipating will be better than the existing standards?



latency
Battery Life
R/L independent connection
Multistream
Audio share
New standard LC3 codec 

There's so much new stuff coming to bluetooth, some of it isn't new, but now its standard instead of proprietary.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

Luke Skywalker said:


>


Plot twist: the ship's name was the Beaver Given. It all makes so much sense.



diimaan said:


> The Crystal are the ones I suggested for KEF! XELASTEC won't fit the case of KEF!  But if you want to use it with your IEM's you can order the XELASTEC's


Have you tried tip-rolling the Crystal on anything else? I've been curious about what they do to the overall signature; seems like the general opinion is that they really tame down bass-heavy pairs, but can overemphasize treble.

But I'm tapped for now. Have a couple top-secret items on their way. Not TWS. Will definitely be used to test TWS, though.


C_Lindbergh said:


> latency
> Battery Life
> R/L independent connection
> Multistream
> ...


Went through some of the LE writeups on Qualcomm's site. Sounds interesting, but seems the initial push will be towards medical devices. That being said, I'm all for standardizing the way Bluetooth is managed. It's such a mess at this point.


----------



## diimaan

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Have you tried tip-rolling the Crystal on anything else? I've been curious about what they do to the overall signature; seems like the general opinion is that they really tame down bass-heavy pairs, but can overemphasize treble.
> 
> But I'm tapped for now. Have a couple top-secret items on their way. Not TWS. Will definitely be used to test TWS, though.



I am using Crystal with three of my TWS! KEF Mu3's, JBL Club Pro+ and Galaxy Buds Plus!


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

diimaan said:


> I am using Crystal with three of my TWS! KEF Mu3's, JBL Club Pro+ and Galaxy Buds Plus!


Opinions on what they did for the Club Pro+?


----------



## Canabuc

miserybeforethemusic said:


> We can agree to disagree. I found plenty of rewarding qualities with the Soundcore and things get remarkably better once you've gone through the SoundID tuning. I know comfort can be an issue with those; they're a unique fit. Guess they worked just fine for my ears. I also have zero issues with the Technics' battery life or output volume. They're fantastic once ANC is on and I usually just throw on HearThrough for the free midbass lift it provides. Haven't charged them up in two weeks and they're still at 2/3 on the case battery indicator. All on stock tips, by the way. In each case, it took time to elicit the _wow _moments and I found more of those with the Technics, to be quite honest. It's unapologetically a 90s living room Hi-Fi kinda sound. Not going to be everybody's preference.
> 
> It sounds to me like you favor a V-shaped signature. I know you've mentioned wanting a W or U from time to time, but I honestly think you'd be happier with better-tuned V-shaped pairs.  that doesn't imply you're a basshead, but I think you need to be realistic with what your sound preferences are. It'll help narrow down what to spend your money on later, rather than hopping on whatever flavor of the week has run rampant through the internet circles. I used to think I wanted neutral. Neutral, neutral, neutral. Nope. I wanted _natural_ and I'm a timbre fanatic over just about everything else. Took me over a decade and a lot of money that could have been used better had I been more honest with myself about what I wanted. Please don't take this as a negative; definitely not meant that way.
> 
> Always down for improvements. Thanks for the update!



I said W shaped because midrange and vocals are important to me. Based on some of the samples of music you have put up you seem to prefer genre that is fast paced and metal. Too much bass on songs like that and the midrange gets killed.

When I listen to a track that has deep powerful bass I want to hear that. When the track has a female vocalist who is a a bit similar I want that too.

I am glad you like the Technics and they have good anc and great Mids.  The Treble rolls off a bit compared to Sony or Samsung.  The bass needs anc on or it is just missing from tracks. Listen to Massive attack and it feels like the meat of many of their songs is missing.
I know what sound I like and I like earbuds that don't necessarily have a sound you think I like.
I love the Treble focus of the buds pro but I couldn't get them to fit for my life.
Songs sound while lacking sub bass and a bit of bloat in lower midrange had great Treble detail. Just couldn't get used to the bulky case and fit with no ip rating and lack of compete control .

MTW2 didn't like how the lower mids and some vocals got muffled by the bass and it lacked volume.

Fiil t1 pro really have a natural as you call it sound where no one frequency dominates or clouds the others. If a song has harsh Treble it will sound harsh on these not rolled off.
Bass extension is great and vocals sound great. It is shocking that they are as cheap as they are.

Freebuds sound very natural except a but warm as Treble is not as bright bit with some eqing it gets better. 

I sit on the fence with the MT because I do really enjoy the sound though it needs the mids and Treble equalized up a fair bit and bass toned down. It is a nice rich sound. But it is the only earbud that gives me trouble daily. Got the RMA tag today so debating  still do I return and save for next great thing like xm4 Gemini re-release or the kef maybe. Or the a chance that they figure this out in firmware and that replacement case is less problematic.


----------



## diimaan

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Opinions on what they did for the Club Pro+?


Apart from the fit? I feel the bass is more tight when using the Crystal! It sounds more like a Galaxy Buds Plus on Dynamic EQ overall, with a prominent bass presence of course!
Like you I am comfortable using JBL stock tuning and not using any EQ


----------



## Canabuc

jant71 said:


> Nobody really digging the other Cambridge? Seems to have the performance mode, the sound, buttons, the app now and an issue free case. Surprised some are not trading in Touch for a 1+.


I am curious about them(1+) The driver is smaller at 5.8mm not sure how that affects sound. Also the fit is very different which could be good or bad.

Right now in Canada at least they are 20$ more than the MT


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

diimaan said:


> Apart from the fit? I feel the bass is more tight when using the Crystal! It sounds more like a Galaxy Buds Plus on Dynamic EQ overall, with a prominent bass presence of course!
> Like you I am comfortable using JBL stock tuning and not using any EQ


Sounds fairly similar to what the Final do, then. Was wondering as it seems the XELASTEC can be very polarizing; wasn't sure if it carried over to the Crystal, but doesn't seem like it. Glad they're working out!


Canabuc said:


> I said W shaped because midrange and vocals are important to me. Based on some of the samples of music you have put up you seem to prefer genre that is fast paced and metal. Too much bass on songs like that and the midrange gets killed.
> 
> When I listen to a track that has deep powerful bass I want to hear that. When the track has a female vocalist who is a a bit similar I want that too.
> 
> ...


Hah I'm the worst influence when it comes to "what's next."

Appreciate the elaboration on your preferred signature and I'm sorry if I conveyed in anyway that I thought it was _wrong_. I'll admit, to an extent, I'm wading the waters to see where our tastes differ. Still learning about what I prefer, too. Might ask some tough questions or push a few buttons in the process. If that happens to you, I apologize in advance.

I usually pick the tracks I share here for their technical demands. What I listen to on my own time really just depends on mood and it can be Blind Melon one second, Blind Guardian the next, Blind Faith in another, and the Blind Boys of Alabama after that. No genre is really off limits, but I'll admit that no headphone can really make crust punk sound good. I tried.

I don't favor any one particular end of the FR and value timbre and spatial cues more than anything else; those are just two technical abilities that don't necessarily need a robust low-end to perform well. What's been driving me nuts about every (yes, _every_) pair of TWS I've tried so far is that they all don't handle spatial cues very well, but I know that's a limitation of the current BT protocols and having to communicate with two devices at once with no detectable difference in latency. Like @C_Lindbergh I'm hoping LE finally gives us an opportunity to tackle it head-on, but I think that's one major weak point caused by something that can't be corrected based on current tech. Unpopular opinion? Maybe.

That being said, the Technics are far from my ideal signature, but I think they handle the midrange-up extremely well. Agree that bass weight can be a weak point; I've learned that's pretty fit-dependent and those don't like to go in deep. But I know the intended audience for that signature; they'd love it. Modern consumers, especially North American ones? Not so much. _Mo' bass, mo' treble, no mids _is unfortunately a real problem in the consumer market these days; luckily the boutique market is closing the gap and I'm really happy to see @piotrus-g working on that Go One. Kinera's stepped into the TWS pool as well and I think some of their wired pairs have sound signatures that border on addictingly good. Only a matter of time before we have a wireless Norn that sounds as good as a wired one. When we're at that point, the sky's the limit.

Regarding the MT, and maybe it's me, but I think there have been minor changes to the sound signature after each firmware update. Also heard things clean up a bit once I corrected the Location Services issue. It'd be really cool if Cambridge could take some user feedback on a more purpose-built EQ setting that addresses your concerns and make it a preset; methinks they'd be able to sacrifice at least one of those presets to make it.


----------



## jant71

Canabuc said:


> I am curious about them(1+) The driver is smaller at 5.8mm not sure how that affects sound. Also the fit is very different which could be good or bad.
> 
> Right now in Canada at least they are 20$ more than the MT




Yep, I said it before the Melamania 1 should have the angle like the Victor does off the barrel. They probably should have done that change for the 1+.


----------



## diimaan

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Sounds fairly similar to what the Final do, then. Was wondering as it seems the XELASTEC can be very polarizing; wasn't sure if it carried over to the Crystal, but doesn't seem like it. Glad they're working out!


Yeah, the XELASTEC's can be tricky! I bought the regular versions and it didn't fit any of my TWS! But I could use it with my Sony XBA-N3, but the sony hybrid or triple comfort tips are more comfortable for that use!
If you want to try the XELASTEC's on TWS you could get the XELASTEC for APP and use the tips sans adapter for APP! But then again, your listening mileage could vary as I was not very fond of XELASTEC's on my Galaxy Buds Plus which itself on it's own already deprived of Bass


----------



## diimaan

Btw on off topic, has any iPhone users facing the Bluetooth of Death recently? Especially after the iOS 14.4.2 update?
The bluetooth option is just greyed out from the control center and I had to reboot the device to get it back again!


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

diimaan said:


> Yeah, the XELASTEC's can be tricky! I bought the regular versions and it didn't fit any of my TWS! But I could use it with my Sony XBA-N3, but the sony hybrid or triple comfort tips are more comfortable for that use!
> If you want to try the XELASTEC's on TWS you could get the XELASTEC for APP and use the tips sans adapter for APP! But then again, your listening mileage could vary as I was not very fond of XELASTEC's on my Galaxy Buds Plus which itself on it's own already deprived of Bass


Thank you! That helps a ton. Sonically, what do you usually hear between them over stock?


----------



## diimaan

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Thank you! That helps a ton. Sonically, what do you usually hear between them over stock?


The XELASTEC's? The regular ones were very good when compared to stock ones I would say but it is not suitable for any of the TWS! 
But the trimmed down XELASTEC for APP on my TWS's sounded little thin on bass and I would not say the treble is harsh or too sparkly but very suitable for vocals especially female ones


----------



## Canabuc

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Sounds fairly similar to what the Final do, then. Was wondering as it seems the XELASTEC can be very polarizing; wasn't sure if it carried over to the Crystal, but doesn't seem like it. Glad they're working out!
> 
> Hah I'm the worst influence when it comes to "what's next."
> 
> ...


Appreciate the reply. I actually find that I enjoy different sound signature depending on the genre. 

Acoustic guitar and vocals need good midrange and is why I didn't love the mtw2 for male vocals or the Samsung.
Sonys were great for those as were the Technics.
But the Technics were a bit too flat for hip hop jazz and mor energetic music.
I listen to tws with every workout and usually to upbeat punchy tunes. The Technics both lacked energy and kept falling out.
For Norah Jones they are great!


----------



## CocaCola15

jant71 said:


> Nobody really digging the other Cambridge? Seems to have the performance mode, the sound, buttons, the app now and an issue free case. Surprised some are not trading in Touch for a 1+.


I have and really like both. The M1+ is built like a tank, great sound. I use both CA models. Gave away my original M1 to a friend.


----------



## CocaCola15

TK33 said:


> He started a new company called Qudelix.  Great device.  I pre-ordered it at release and my ES100 has been sitting in a storage box under my bed ever since along with my unused TWS, cables, tips etc.


Headed to Amazon to give it a go! Thanks!


----------



## CocaCola15

Darkestred said:


> The fit is going to be horrendous for the majority - id imagine.  I was interested until i saw they were bullet style.


With foam tips they fit great. No issues for me. But I have to use foam for seal/sound.


----------



## Darkestred

CocaCola15 said:


> With foam tips they fit great. No issues for me. But I have to use foam for seal/sound.


are the nozzles angled?  for me any straight style design, sucks.  Angled nozzles can be the saving grace.


----------



## Canabuc

CocaCola15 said:


> I have and really like both. The M1+ is built like a tank, great sound. I use both CA models. Gave away my original M1 to a friend.



How do they sound comparatively?


----------



## Darkestred

Id be curious how the signal strength is on the 1.  Sorry to say, although the MT are great their reception sucks on anything other than a straight line.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

Darkestred said:


> Id be curious how the signal strength is on the 1.  Sorry to say, although the MT are great their reception sucks on anything other than a straight line.


They do just fine for me if I plop my phone on the desk and walk around the house. Can even hang out on the back patio without a phone. I think you're being hyperbolic.


----------



## CocaCola15

Darkestred said:


> are the nozzles angled?  for me any straight style design, sucks.  Angled nozzles can be the saving grace.


No, straight. Yes, they have the Frankenstein look, but I don’t mind. Roll the foam and screw them in. Angled nozzles not required for comfort. But I can understand not being a fan of the design.


----------



## CocaCola15 (Apr 8, 2021)

miserybeforethemusic said:


> They do just fine for me if I plop my phone on the desk and walk around the house. Can even hang out on the back patio without a phone. I think you're being hyperbolic.


The MT seems fine here too. Honestly. No disconnects even moving about the house within reason.
As for the 1+, no issues either. So far. Never had problems with the original M1 either, however.


----------



## CocaCola15

Canabuc said:


> How do they sound comparatively?


I need to actually do some A/B listening. I can say this, with the M1+, I don’t use an EQ. With the MT, I tip the high freqs a little and take the low end down. But very very little on both fronts. I just haven’t sat down and had a listening comparison. Seems odd, agree. It’s on my list for tomorrow.


----------



## Darkestred

miserybeforethemusic said:


> They do just fine for me if I plop my phone on the desk and walk around the house. Can even hang out on the back patio without a phone. I think you're being hyperbolic.



haha.  Definitely, not.  I will provide a test sometime over the next few days.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

Darkestred said:


> haha.  Definitely, not.  I will provide a test sometime over the next few days.


How do you intend to test my gear? My point is our experience is anecdotal and there's a ton of factors besides just your TWS that play into bluetooth connectivity. It's quite possible you're looking at the wrong end of the equation to correct. Just please don't conflate your experience to make it sound like this affects every device. There's two people here who have first-hand experience to the contrary. Are we wrong because our experience is different?


----------



## Darkestred

miserybeforethemusic said:


> How do you intend to test my gear? My point is our experience is anecdotal and there's a ton of factors besides just your TWS that play into bluetooth connectivity. It's quite possible you're looking at the wrong end of the equation to correct. Just please don't conflate your experience to make it sound like this affects every device. There's two people here who have first-hand experience to the contrary. Are we wrong because our experience is different?



I'm confused.  You're adding in more details to the comment i made, after the fact.  That's a bit unfair to the current discussion.  The same point you made also applies to me. Is my experience any less valid because you and two others dont have the issue?  Yes.  Maybe i hold more water weight, maybe i have more muscle mass.  There are variouis factors that can affect BT in each person.  That still leaves a valid concern as to why i get different results with two TWS solutions. 

I made a statement that the MT sucks in reception.  Obviously, im not telling anyone to not buy them or their's sucks, too.  I mean we are on a forum where people argue over how certain cables make the music a completely different experience or how burn-in is a thing.  The point is, there are plenty of anecdotal experiences that conflate any experience on boards like this but that is not my intent.  I am only voicing my disappointment with the connection but have stated many times i love the sound and for the needs i use it for are satisfactory.

I have two videos if you'd like to see them.  I even made the claim in another post that i wonder if in-ears fit vs and outter ear fit makes a difference and ive shown in my video that when i hold the MTs in my hand they work great - in my ears - not so great.


----------



## clerkpalmer

MW07 Go $100 bucks at BB. That’s a lot of sound for a hundred bucks. Couldn’t resist.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

Darkestred said:


> I made a statement that the MT sucks in reception.  Obviously, im not telling anyone to not buy them or their's sucks, too.  I mean we are on a forum where people argue over how certain cables make the music a completely different experience or how burn-in is a thing.  The point is, there are plenty of anecdotal experiences that conflate any experience on boards like this but that is not my intent.  I am only voicing my disappointment with the connection but have stated many times i love the sound and for the needs i use it for are satisfactory.


Bud, you came out conflating your experience to resemble the majority. I provided a counterpoint, disproving the allusion that this is a systemic problem. They are not equivalent. The words you choose to use matter, especially on a thread where people are constantly lurking and forming opinions of a product. If it affects you and only you, then the responsible thing would be to say so. That's all I'm getting at here. Not trying to start an argument.


clerkpalmer said:


> MW07 Go $100 bucks at BB. That’s a lot of sound for a hundred bucks. Couldn’t resist.


About what I paid. Well worth it at that price. When do they arrive?


----------



## clerkpalmer

miserybeforethemusic said:


> About what I paid. Well worth it at that price. When do they arrive?


When I drive 15 min to get my grubby paws on them. Hopefully I can find a way to make them fit cycling since the Jabra didn’t stay put.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic (Apr 9, 2021)

clerkpalmer said:


> When I drive 15 min to get my grubby paws on them. Hopefully I can find a way to make them fit cycling since the Jabra didn’t stay put.


If you're willing to feel a little more pressure on the antihelix, I suggest bumping up a size on the fins. While the small ones stayed locked in pretty well and didn't generate any hotspots, they can wiggle a little bit. Swapping out for the Medium fixed that in my case, but then hotspots develop after about an hour.

At least it'll have more inherent stability than the Jabras. Shame, thought they were working out for you.


----------



## clerkpalmer

miserybeforethemusic said:


> If you're willing to feel a little more pressure on the antihelix, I suggest bumping up a size on the fins. While the small ones stayed locked in pretty well and didn't generate any hotspots, they can wiggle a little bit. Swapping out for the Medium fixed that in my case, but then hotspots develop after about an hour.
> 
> At least it'll have more inherent stability than the Jabras. Shame, thought they were working out for you.


Bummer. Typical Best Buy. Not available for pickup even though it said they were. So order by mail or go for the JBL?


----------



## clerkpalmer

clerkpalmer said:


> Bummer. Typical Best Buy. Not available for pickup even though it said they were. So order by mail or go for the JBL?





miserybeforethemusic said:


> If you're willing to feel a little more pressure on the antihelix, I suggest bumping up a size on the fins. While the small ones stayed locked in pretty well and didn't generate any hotspots, they can wiggle a little bit. Swapping out for the Medium fixed that in my case, but then hotspots develop after about an hour.
> 
> At least it'll have more inherent stability than the Jabras. Shame, thought they were working out for you.


My problem in the past is that the fins would detach from the body of the iem. Over time as more sweat would get back there they would get worse to the point that the entire runner part over the iem pulled away every time I put them in my ears.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

clerkpalmer said:


> Bummer. Typical Best Buy. Not available for pickup even though it said they were. So order by mail or go for the JBL?


Depends on the intended use. Getting these for the bike? I'd suggest sticking with the M&Ds, unless you're talking about the JBL/UA collab. Just haven't heard them to see how consumer-tuned they really are.


----------



## erockg

clerkpalmer said:


> Bummer. Typical Best Buy. Not available for pickup even though it said they were. So order by mail or go for the JBL?


That's happened to me a few times.  Every time BB says a few in stock, nope, sold out or some guy is too lazy to go find it.  I had the MW07 and the fit killed my ears.  Even with all the wings.  MW08 seem to fit me like a charm.  But for biking, look elsewhere.  Had the JBL's too.  They do sound wonderful, but the fit is strange too.  Not sure they won't pop out on a ride.  UE Fits might be a good option for you.  Impressively stable, great customer service.


----------



## clerkpalmer

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Depends on the intended use. Getting these for the bike? I'd suggest sticking with the M&Ds, unless you're talking about the JBL/UA collab. Just haven't heard them to see how consumer-tuned they really are.


Was looking at the club pro everyone seems so high on.


----------



## clerkpalmer

erockg said:


> That's happened to me a few times.  Every time BB says a few in stock, nope, sold out or some guy is too lazy to go find it.  I had the MW07 and the fit killed my ears.  Even with all the wings.  MW08 seem to fit me like a charm.  But for biking, look elsewhere.  Had the JBL's too.  They do sound wonderful, but the fit is strange too.  Not sure they won't pop out on a ride.  UE Fits might be a good option for you.  Impressively stable, great customer service.


Wonder how those fits would do with wind noise.


----------



## Darkestred

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Bud, you came out conflating your experience to resemble the majority. I provided a counterpoint, disproving the allusion that this is a systemic problem. They are not equivalent. The words you choose to use matter, especially on a thread where people are constantly lurking and forming opinions of a product. If it affects you and only you, then the responsible thing would be to say so. That's all I'm getting at here. Not trying to start an argument.
> 
> About what I paid. Well worth it at that price. When do they arrive?



I'm not looking to argue, either.  If you believe i am conflating - that's fine.  I can understand where you have a point.  However, i do have an issue with it only being an issue for me since no one else has mentioned it - so therefor there is no reception issue.  We're only going on people saying,  "no, doesn't happen for me."  With no real way of knowing what they mean by that or what they are comparing to or if it mimics the same way i use mine.  Also, because no one else came forward does not mean the issue doesn't exist or is an isolated issue.


----------



## erockg

clerkpalmer said:


> Wonder how those fits would do with wind noise.


They don't have ANC or Passthrough.  So there isn't a mic on to interfere.  I use them for 5 mile walks near the beach with no issues.  But sure, biking may be a different breed.  UE gives you 30 days to try them.  $249 with a free Wonderboom 2 on their site or $213 on Amazon right now.  I'd totally try them and return if they don't work for you.  Worth a shot.


----------



## bladefd

I know this is a thread for TWS, but I was looking to get wireless earbuds for my mom for her iPhone but non-TWS wireless. What's a solid pair for under $100?? I was looking at the Jaybird Tarah. Wireless but not TWS so she wouldn't lose them.


----------



## clerkpalmer

erockg said:


> They don't have ANC or Passthrough.  So there isn't a mic on to interfere.  I use them for 5 mile walks near the beach with no issues.  But sure, biking may be a different breed.  UE gives you 30 days to try them.  $249 with a free Wonderboom 2 on their site or $213 on Amazon right now.  I'd totally try them and return if they don't work for you.  Worth a


Tempting. Seem a little pricey but not too bad.


----------



## erockg (Apr 9, 2021)

bladefd said:


> I know this is a thread for TWS, but I was looking to get wireless earbuds for my mom for her iPhone but non-TWS wireless. What's a solid pair for under $100?? I was looking at the Jaybird Tarah. Wireless but not TWS so she wouldn't lose them.


Moms, at least mine when she was with us, never cared.  The Tarah are nice.  Even the newer Beats.  At least they'll sound decent and work well with her iPhone.

https://www.apple.com/shop/product/...6527438e8974a1e72109b6e3748b43948c3f1b3c3fbbc


----------



## clerkpalmer

bladefd said:


> I know this is a thread for TWS, but I was looking to get wireless earbuds for my mom for her iPhone but non-TWS wireless. What's a solid pair for under $100?? I was looking at the Jaybird Tarah. Wireless but not TWS so she wouldn't lose them.


Check out some the RHA models. They are pretty nice and I think have a nicer build quality than the jaybird. Bose soundsport as well.


----------



## erockg

clerkpalmer said:


> Tempting. Seem a little pricey but not too bad.


I've paid more for worse


----------



## earmonger

bladefd said:


> I know this is a thread for TWS, but I was looking to get wireless earbuds for my mom for her iPhone but non-TWS wireless. What's a solid pair for under $100?? I was looking at the Jaybird Tarah. Wireless but not TWS so she wouldn't lose them.


Does she have IEMs with a detachable cable? You could just get a bluetooth cable with the right connectors.


----------



## tinyman392

bladefd said:


> I know this is a thread for TWS, but I was looking to get wireless earbuds for my mom for her iPhone but non-TWS wireless. What's a solid pair for under $100?? I was looking at the Jaybird Tarah. Wireless but not TWS so she wouldn't lose them.


There are a few Beats that use the W1 chip still that are wired, though most have gone TWS.  T1 chip tends to make things a lot easier to pair up.


----------



## FYLegend

Finally the SoundPeats T2 are available in Canada, anyone experiencing static issues like Scarbir did or did he just get a defective unit?


----------



## Canabuc

Jbl were not stable for me and head shake would have them fall out.

If you want stable go MT or Fiil both have wings.


----------



## Canabuc

Darkestred said:


> I'm not looking to argue, either.  If you believe i am conflating - that's fine.  I can understand where you have a point.  However, i do have an issue with it only being an issue for me since no one else has mentioned it - so therefor there is no reception issue.  We're only going on people saying,  "no, doesn't happen for me."  With no real way of knowing what they mean by that or what they are comparing to or if it mimics the same way i use mine.  Also, because no one else came forward does not mean the issue doesn't exist or is an isolated issue.



I only conflate after eating beans and then I don't need tws because no one will stay in the room with me so I can just blast my headphones .


----------



## CocaCola15 (Apr 9, 2021)

Canabuc said:


> How do they sound comparatively?


Just doing a bit of listening, and the Touch a bit more mid-focused: same track, Live Nude Cabaret, Jackson Browne. Limited sample, yes. But honestly, they sound very similar using the balanced preset on the CA app. Rich, luscious sound to my ears. Not neutral, I have an Ety ER4XR for that. But i am just a fan if the CA sound I guess. At $129 each, to me they are a great price to performance value. One caveat with the M1+ is I must use the OEM foam tips from CA, which can be bought on Amazon, $10/5 pair, mediums (only come in small or medium). The foams provide a superior sound/fit for my asymmetric ears canals.
I also found a random pair of silicone tips for the Touch that fit in the case. Just like them more than the OEM tips from CA. No foam for the Touch, the design is more favorable to my ears, if that makes sense. It’s just the reality.


----------



## erockg

I just got the Noble Falcon Pros today.  Popped them in my ears, tossed on a little EQ and WHOA!  @miserybeforethemusic I can't believe these things are TWS.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

Darkestred said:


> I'm not looking to argue, either.  If you believe i am conflating - that's fine.  I can understand where you have a point.  However, i do have an issue with it only being an issue for me since no one else has mentioned it - so therefor there is no reception issue.  We're only going on people saying,  "no, doesn't happen for me."  With no real way of knowing what they mean by that or what they are comparing to or if it mimics the same way i use mine.  Also, because no one else came forward does not mean the issue doesn't exist or is an isolated issue.


I am doing my best to call out stuff like what we've been discussing as it comes up. I'm just not always as direct about it.

Can we just leave this at "agree to disagree?" This is starting to sound like an argument about arguments and growing into something larger than it needs to be. I'll work on not being so abrasive while we're at it if that helps at all.


bladefd said:


> I know this is a thread for TWS, but I was looking to get wireless earbuds for my mom for her iPhone but non-TWS wireless. What's a solid pair for under $100?? I was looking at the Jaybird Tarah. Wireless but not TWS so she wouldn't lose them.


What does she usually listen to? Does she prefer features over sound or vice versa? Only issue I'll take with a lot of wireless buds is longevity of the cable. If they're non-detachable, I'd factor that in to the decision.


clerkpalmer said:


> Tempting. Seem a little pricey but not too bad.


They're good. They _are_ pricey, but they're good.

Only gripe I really have about them is how long it takes for my ears to get used to the sound signature as it's much less tilted than some of the other TWS out there. That level of patience will grant you one heck of a soundstage, though. Good amount of air in between instruments. Takes adjustments in MSEB pretty well, too. Usually, I just take the Cool/Warm/Dark slider and put it about 15 units over into Warm territory and that's good enough.

But I've got more to test again.




Really happy these WH3 have wireless charging. Funnily enough, I thought they were charging super fast (empty to full within a 1-hour meeting), but turns out the buds had some of that protective tape over the charging contacts. Guess I've gotta wait just a little longer.

Also, the screen protectors on these HiBy DAPs are a literal lint magnet...yeesh.  I do like that all the sides are glass. Feels really premium and hopefully will help with BT strength.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

erockg said:


> I just got the Noble Falcon Pros today.  Popped them in my ears, tossed on a little EQ and WHOA!  @miserybeforethemusic I can't believe these things are TWS.


Articulate but not anemic, right? So glad you like them!


----------



## erockg

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Articulate but not anemic, right? So glad you like them!


Soundstage is sick.  Separation great.  Bass hits nice.  Listening to the new The End Machine and Lynch is just shredding.  Few things.  When I Qi charge them, man the case gets HOT.  Also, when you can't activate passthrough until they've been paused a bit.  Then, my right but takes a sec to connect to the left.  These could just be growing pains.  What firmware are yours on?  I'm on 2.0, but no way to update if there is one.  Tried both apps.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic (Apr 9, 2021)

erockg said:


> Soundstage is sick.  Separation great.  Bass hits nice.  Listening to the new The End Machine and Lynch is just shredding.  Few things.  When I Qi charge them, man the case gets HOT.  Also, when you can't activate passthrough until they've been paused a bit.  Then, my right but takes a sec to connect to the left.  These could just be growing pains.  What firmware are yours on?  I'm on 2.0, but no way to update if there is one.  Tried both apps.


Mine is charging funky, too. Am I doing something wrong?

I kid, I kid.

Sounds like you either might want to try a different charging pad or check the position of the pad as it is now. If it's a persistent problem, might want to reach out to John/Jim about it, but I assume they're going to suggest you try a different pad first.

Enabling/disabling HearThrough can be annoying; agree with you there. Currently running 2.0 as well in both. Nothing newer than that as far as I know. Fwiw, you only need the Sound Suite app for upgrades on the NFP; The other one's only for the NF1/NF2.


----------



## erockg (Apr 9, 2021)

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Mine is charging funky, too. Am I doing something wrong?
> 
> I kid, I kid.
> 
> ...


Duuuuuumb 

It's the Nomad Base Station Pro.  Maybe that's it.  New tech.  Great pad.  Trying another now.

I figured that re: the apps.  Thanks for confirming.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic (Apr 9, 2021)

erockg said:


> Duuuuuumb
> 
> It's the Nomad Base Station Pro.  Maybe that's it.  New tech.  Great pad.  Trying another now.
> 
> I figured that re: the apps.  Thanks for confirming.


Started making an elaborate writeup for initial impressions on the WH3, but figured i'd just condense it down into bullet points. If anybody wants me to expand on them, I'm more than willing.

The HiBy Blue app sucks. Very similar to the original app Noble used to perform upgrades, but it also includes all the sound adjustments. GUI is awful.
There's a NFC logo on the side of the case, but no instructions in the manual on how to utilize it. Pressing the case to my phone (which is NFC-enabled) doesn't do a thing. Did they just not finish that implementation?
The case, while slightly larger overall than the NFP, manages to eclipse every case besides the Cambridge in terms of size. Totally pocketable...if you still wear JNCOs.
aptX is supported. TWS+, for some reason, is switchable within the app. Don't know if you're on Android and need a feature like that, but it's worth mentioning
The adjustable "hybrid crossover" feels like a gimmick initially. Panned hard left (or setting the crossover point to 40Hz) is what I imagine it sounds like to shove your head into the bass stack at an EDM festival. Take it hard right (19kHz) and it sounds funky in a way I just can't quite categorize. Anticipate you're going to be spending a good amount of time messing with this if you decide to buy them. I've pushed it down to 2kHz and it seems like a compromise for the time being.
There's a weird haze over the entire midrange that I can't seem to shake yet, though. It might just be inherent to the driver design. Definitely sounds like the driver is playing from behind a heavy blanket. That could either be a by-product of treble being rolled off too early, but whatever's causing it results in a _really thrown-off timbre_.
This DD has the capability of a lot of slam. It's just tuned way too hot. Matter of fact, that's my general take on the sound signature overall: punchy, hyper-compressed and hypo-dynamic.
So the outset isn't that great, but I don't give up that easily. I'm really hoping performance with the R5 Saber over UAT allows for improvement, but I'm leaning very heavily to sending these back. I'd expect this kind of sound signature out of some of the early Chi-Fi stuff and it certainly isn't fitting of either the original or the current price tag.

This screams of an unfinished product where the customer has no choice but to also become the beta tester.

_Disclaimer: To be fair to HiBy, they are trying to break into this space and this is a pilot product. It's possible most of these concerns can be addressed by firmware. I probably expected more than I should, given those circumstances._


----------



## bladefd

erockg said:


> Moms, at least mine when she was with us, never cared.  The Tarah are nice.  Even the newer Beats.  At least they'll sound decent and work well with her iPhone.
> 
> https://www.apple.com/shop/product/...6527438e8974a1e72109b6e3748b43948c3f1b3c3fbbc


I will look at Beats flex. Seems like either that or the Jaybird Tarah. Don't see another decent option under $100. Not like my mom is an audiophile or would be able to tell the difference in quality. Although she does call people so call quality matters to at least be average.



earmonger said:


> Does she have IEMs with a detachable cable? You could just get a bluetooth cable with the right connectors.


Nah, just some old Samsung oem wired crap ones that came with her old Samsung Galaxy s9 few years back. Using the same ones on iPhone now few years later lol


----------



## Luke Skywalker

diimaan said:


> The Crystal are the ones I suggested for KEF! XELASTEC won't fit the case of KEF!  But if you want to use it with your IEM's you can order the XELASTEC's


Awesome thank you.  They don’t stay in my ears quite as well when I’m at the gym, maybe because the surfaces are more smooth.  They sound awesome


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

Luke Skywalker said:


> Awesome thank you.  They don’t stay in my ears quite as well when I’m at the gym, maybe because the surfaces are more smooth.  They sound awesome


If you need more grip, SpinFit will probably remain your best pick. The Final aren't slippery, either, but SpinFit does feel more secure in my ears.


----------



## Luke Skywalker

Canabuc said:


> Appreciate the reply. I actually find that I enjoy different sound signature depending on the genre.
> 
> Acoustic guitar and vocals need good midrange and is why I didn't love the mtw2 for male vocals or the Samsung.
> Sonys were great for those as were the Technics.
> ...


You might want to give the KEF mu3 a try.  They sound awesome for Norah, guitar, classical.... and everything else really.


----------



## darveniza

Received my M&D 08, quite an improvement on sound, finish and fit.


----------



## darveniza

darveniza said:


> Received my M&D 08, quite an improvement on sound, finish and fit.


----------



## erockg

darveniza said:


>


Blue looks sweet.  I love them.  Got Black.  Still trying to find a good tips setup.  Way better than the last gen for sure.


----------



## darveniza

erockg said:


> Blue looks sweet.  I love them.  Got Black.  Still trying to find a good tips setup.  Way better than the last gen for sure.


I used the stock XL for now and feel very good and stable. The app is simple and hopefully in the future they will add more options


----------



## rhsauer

erockg said:


> Blue looks sweet.  I love them.  Got Black.  Still trying to find a good tips setup.  Way better than the last gen for sure.


I've also been having a hard time finding tips for the MW08s that don't hurt my right ear after a while.  (My right ear is usually a bit harder to fit.)  I'm currently using the SpinFit CP360s, size large (moved one size down), and they seem to work reasonably well.  I've also ordered a couple pairs of SednaEarfits, which should be here on Monday, in the hope that they'll work even better.  The battery life on the MW08s may be great, but if they hurt after a while I really doesn't matter how long the battery lasts.  To be fair, the problem is mostly the shape of my inner ear -- not the earphones.


----------



## clerkpalmer

darveniza said:


> Received my M&D 08, quite an improvement on sound, finish and fit.


Can you elaborate on this? Is the sound really improved?


----------



## erockg (Apr 9, 2021)

rhsauer said:


> I've also been having a hard time finding tips for the MW08s that don't hurt my right ear after a while.  (My right ear is usually a bit harder to fit.)  I'm currently using the SpinFit CP360s, size large (moved one size down), and they seem to work reasonably well.  I've also ordered a couple pairs of SednaEarfits, which should be here on Monday, in the hope that they'll work even better.  The battery life on the MW08s may be great, but if they hurt after a while I really doesn't matter how long the battery lasts.  To be fair, the problem is mostly the shape of my inner ear -- not the earphones.


Same here.  I think my right ear always screws me.  I put large Symbio tips on and they are working well today.

Keep me posted on you findings.


----------



## DJTobes

rhsauer said:


> I've also been having a hard time finding tips for the MW08s that don't hurt my right ear after a while.  (My right ear is usually a bit harder to fit.)


I bought the Spinfit CP100's M for my left ear and the CP100's L for my right ear... and WOW what a difference in sound quality. I know that the seal in any in-ears needs to be right but with this combination for me.... in-ear audio heaven! Very happy boy


----------



## Canabuc

Luke Skywalker said:


> You might want to give the KEF mu3 a try.  They sound awesome for Norah, guitar, classical.... and everything else really.


On backorder.


----------



## Slowhand

DJTobes said:


> I bought the Spinfit CP100's M for my left ear and the CP100's L for my right ear... and WOW what a difference in sound quality. I know that the seal in any in-ears needs to be right but with this combination for me.... in-ear audio heaven! Very happy boy


I assume the fit in case is without issue then?


----------



## rhsauer (Apr 10, 2021)

Slowhand said:


> I assume the fit in case is without issue then?


I found that the large CP-100s did fit in the case and allowed the mw08s to charge -- but the case didn't close _perfectly_, so the edge of the lid wasn't _quite_ flush with the top of the case.  All in, it's probably ok functionally, though that very small gap was working my obsessive/compulsive nerve.

I think the CP-100s are designed, principally, for IEMs, and the CP-360s are designed for TWSs.  In my case, I also found that the CP-360s were more comfortable over longer periods of time, without any noticeable sacrifice in sound quality -- and the longer CP-100s felt too deep after a while.  I'm wearing the MW08s right now with the CP-360s, and they're comfortable enough to allow me forget I'm wearing them (and they sound great).  Everyone's ears are different, of course, and YMMV.

For me, the real test of earphone tips is how comfortable they are after talking, chewing, or squinting for a while.  For example, I was outside in the sun the other day composing a long email on my phone, and I had to take the earphones out after a few minutes.  (I was using the XL M&D tips at the time.)

I also find that after tip rolling for a while my ears will just start hurting.  When that happens, any tips I use are going to hurt -- and I just need to take a break and come back after my ears have recovered.  Finally, I've also found that my inner ears change shape during the day.  When I step out of my morning shower, for example, my earphones fit more loosely than they will later in the day.  That can also complicate things.


----------



## Luke Skywalker

I may end up getting some UE fits just for the fit alone. I’ve always had trouble finding anything that will stay in my ears at the gym.  The closest I’ve come are my Jabra 65s w/ foam tips but the sound is rather mediocre compared to some of my others


----------



## clerkpalmer

Luke Skywalker said:


> I may end up getting some UE fits just for the fit alone. I’ve always had trouble finding anything that will stay in my ears at the gym.  The closest I’ve come are my Jabra 65s w/ foam tips but the sound is rather mediocre compared to some of my others


Down to 197 on Amazon this am. That’s worth a flyer for me. Will see how it goes.


----------



## clerkpalmer

clerkpalmer said:


> Down to 197 on Amazon this am. That’s worth a flyer for me. Will see how it goes.


Anyone who has these are they are deep iem or relatively shallow? The tips look large but not particularly deep (I hope).


----------



## potix (Apr 10, 2021)

miserybeforethemusic said:


> I probably find myself rotating most between the MT, NFP, and Technics AZ70W at this point. @Canabuc and I seem to have different preferences as I'm positively smitten with the Technics. I find it to be fairly bass-accurate, but can see why others would consider them bass-light. If I need that extension on the top and bottom ends, I'll reach for the Noble. Warmth? I'm going with the Cambridge MT. I could rotate through all three of these just based on what I think my ears need/want at the time and not feel like I'm missing out at this point. Might toss in the JBL as a wildcard from time to time.


Hello guys, I've read the last 250 pages and it took me 2 weeks 
This recent debate was really interesting. It's weird how I found az70's sound 90ish as well, although they are pretty balanced. I became addicted to them since the first listening, but I must admit I miss something between mid-bass and low-mids, on male voices mostly but on music too. My belief on the bass matter is that in the last 30 years the tastes have been progressively changing and even people not still young like me didn't notice it or can't even recall how they were used to listen at music at the high school. Maybe I am wrong but I think that these tws need some more bass but not too much because they mostly sound right.
And I agree that the fit of these is not perfect. So I guess both of you were right.
I am on the neutral side and I own an ATC setup, but when it comes to in-ear I prefer something that is not too much flat, maybe I comply with all those harman speculations.
I also prefer not to rotate equipment or spending money until the new Sony (or B&W maybe) are out, so I'm trying alternative tips for these Technics.
I tried foam but I don't like it, spinfit cp360 bettered comfort, fit and bass, but I still need some eq. So I've just ordered those azla xelastics, so at least I will possibly have the best possible grip.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

clerkpalmer said:


> Anyone who has these are they are deep iem or relatively shallow? The tips look large but not particularly deep (I hope).


Not deep at all. These are only designed to barely enter your ear canal, it seems. If you remember how chunky the ear tips used to be for the old workout earbuds (fill your outer ear, small but wide nozzle inside), it's similar to that.

I'm not going to be able to do a good job explaining what's taking place during the forming process, but it fills out more than it pushes in, if that makes any sense.


potix said:


> Hello guys, I've read the last 250 pages and it took me 2 weeks
> This recent debate was really interesting. It's weird how I found az70's sound 90ish as well, although they are pretty balanced. I became addicted to them since the first listening, but I must admit I miss something between mid-bass and low-mids, on male voices mostly but on music too. My belief on the bass matter is that in the last 30 years the tastes have been progressively changing and even people not still young like me didn't notice it or can't even recall how they were used to listen at music at the high school. Maybe I am wrong but I think that these tws need some more bass but not too much because they mostly sound right.
> And I agree that the fit of these is not perfect. So I guess both of you were right.
> I am on the neutral side and I own an ATC setup, but when it comes to in-ear I prefer something that is not too much flat, maybe I comply with all those harman speculations.
> ...


So not ATC flat, but something with a little more fun? Give the JBL a shot, as long as you don't need ANC. They'll probably bring back into the lows you're looking for without taking away that crispness you've probably been enjoying with the Technics. Worst case, you can EQ any trouble spots pretty easily, but I'm more than happy with it in stock form.

My tip-rolling with the Technics was fruitless and I ended up sticking to the stock ones. Have a feeling that thicker core has a lot to do with the overall signature and I didn't want to risk messing it up too much.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

clerkpalmer said:


> Down to 197 on Amazon this am. That’s worth a flyer for me. Will see how it goes.


Oh man that's a good price


----------



## tiagopinto

C_Lindbergh said:


> I'm thinking about the M&D MW08, but I'm not sure I wanna spend that kind of money just before next gen Bluetooth audio LE... :/
> 
> Usually when it comes to tech it's just better to buy stuff whenver you have the need for it, but man... Bluetooth Audio LE/LC3 will truely be a game-changer.



This is extremely interesting. Surely we’ll experience a major leap when this becomes democratized. The features are VERY promising.


----------



## tiagopinto

diimaan said:


> Btw on off topic, has any iPhone users facing the Bluetooth of Death recently? Especially after the iOS 14.4.2 update?
> The bluetooth option is just greyed out from the control center and I had to reboot the device to get it back again!



Not on my side (using Xs) all is well.


----------



## C_Lindbergh

tiagopinto said:


> This is extremely interesting. Surely we’ll experience a major leap when this becomes democratized. The features are VERY promising.



Yeah I actually got the Shure Aonics 50 (over-ears). even thought I prefer IEM's/TWS , because they have both low latency codec (APTX LL) and multipoint connection.

I really hope we'll see TWS with Bluetooth LE audio soon, I've waited since early 2020 :/


----------



## tiagopinto

darveniza said:


>



Good choice. I was also looking at the blue... But I shouldn’t pull any triggers now though. They’re a beauty.


----------



## tiagopinto (Apr 10, 2021)

C_Lindbergh said:


> Yeah I actually got the Shure Aonics 50 (over-ears). even thought I prefer IEM's/TWS , because they have both low latency codec (APTX LL) and multipoint connection.
> 
> I really hope we'll see TWS with Bluetooth LE audio soon, I've waited since early 2020 :/



I also have the A50’s. Absolutely love them.

For TWS I have the MT’s. Although not linear, I love them too.

LC3 on TWS has the potential of: instead of saving battery life (I don’t think I need more than currently available, but can appreciate a little more) it can give us more info, more resolution. And that will be amazing.

Some of the R&D in the industry paused with the pandemic. But the folks at Bluetooth didn’t. As soon as the consumer industry gets developing more, we’ll probably reap those benefits. 

And we all want that sooner than later. Cheers!


----------



## darveniza

clerkpalmer said:


> Can you elaborate on this? Is the sound really improved?


The bass is much more present, but they have tweaked the mids and highs also and they seem to showcase female vocals with further clarity for example. Have not compared the tuning with ANC on, so not sure on outcome there. Also I did get better fit as these seem to be smaller but have not compared with MW07 Plus


----------



## dweaver

potix said:


> Hello guys, I've read the last 250 pages and it took me 2 weeks
> This recent debate was really interesting. It's weird how I found az70's sound 90ish as well, although they are pretty balanced. I became addicted to them since the first listening, but I must admit I miss something between mid-bass and low-mids, on male voices mostly but on music too. My belief on the bass matter is that in the last 30 years the tastes have been progressively changing and even people not still young like me didn't notice it or can't even recall how they were used to listen at music at the high school. Maybe I am wrong but I think that these tws need some more bass but not too much because they mostly sound right.
> And I agree that the fit of these is not perfect. So I guess both of you were right.
> I am on the neutral side and I own an ATC setup, but when it comes to in-ear I prefer something that is not too much flat, maybe I comply with all those harman speculations.
> ...


I still love my AZ70 and agree on the sound. I end up going between them the WF1000XM3.

If you have any Sony hybrid tips, the real ones (black with colored core) kicking around I find they work best with the AZ70 and actually warm up the sound a smidge while being super comfy.

Actually use those tips on the XM3 as well. Really don't understand why Sony switched away from them. They are the best tip invented in my opinion.


----------



## potix

dweaver said:


> If you have any Sony hybrid tips, the real ones (black with colored core) kicking around I find they work best with the AZ70 and actually warm up the sound a smidge while being super comfy.


Hi, thank you, I remember you had written this. Do you mean the EP-EX11 tips?


----------



## chinmie

dweaver said:


> I still love my AZ70 and agree on the sound. I end up going between them the WF1000XM3.
> 
> If you have any Sony hybrid tips, the real ones (black with colored core) kicking around I find they work best with the AZ70 and actually warm up the sound a smidge while being super comfy.
> 
> Actually use those tips on the XM3 as well. Really don't understand why Sony switched away from them. They are the best tip invented in my opinion.


same here. that's also the eartips that I use with my XM3. much better than both the stock silicones and triple comfort tips


----------



## dweaver

potix said:


> Hi, thank you, I remember you had written this. Do you mean the EP-EX11 tips?


Yup those are the ones.


----------



## Canabuc

https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=41500

Anyone familiar with these?


----------



## TK33

rhsauer said:


> I found that the large CP-100s did fit in the case and allowed the mw08s to charge -- but the case didn't close _perfectly_, so the edge of the lid wasn't _quite_ flush with the top of the case.  All in, it's probably ok functionally, though that very small gap was working my obsessive/compulsive nerve.
> 
> I think the CP-100s are designed, principally, for IEMs, and the CP-360s are designed for TWSs.  In my case, I also found that the CP-360s were more comfortable over longer periods of time, without any noticeable sacrifice in sound quality -- and the longer CP-100s felt too deep after a while.  I'm wearing the MW08s right now with the CP-360s, and they're comfortable enough to allow me forget I'm wearing them (and they sound great).  Everyone's ears are different, of course, and YMMV.
> 
> ...


There used to be a CP100z which was designed for TWS but slightly longer than the CP360.  If you are able to find some it may be worth a try too.  I use them on my MW07 Go without any issues.


----------



## chinmie

Canabuc said:


> https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=41500
> 
> Anyone familiar with these?


looks like the same earpiece design to Cleer and Tronsmart Apollo Bold. the SoundID might be interesting though, because if they do have the same drivers to the Apollo Bold (which is a very capable drivers), that SoundID EQ would be great


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

chinmie said:


> looks like the same earpiece design to Cleer and Tronsmart Apollo Bold. the SoundID might be interesting though, because if they do have the same drivers to the Apollo Bold (which is a very capable drivers), that SoundID EQ would be great


Knowing Monoprice, they've sourced the same design and made minor modifications. Fwiw, I've used Sonarworks before; I think the prospect of making every pair sound "reference" seems fun, but it was pretty poorly executed when I had been giving it a try. I wouldn't make that your selling point.

They don't seem way off in price, at least. Could be good. Not this good, though. I'm still waiting for someone to be able to pull this off in a TWS:


----------



## chinmie

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Knowing Monoprice, they've sourced the same design and made minor modifications. Fwiw, I've used Sonarworks before; I think the prospect of making every pair sound "reference" seems fun, but it was pretty poorly executed when I had been giving it a try. I wouldn't make that your selling point.
> 
> They don't seem way off in price, at least. Could be good. Not this good, though. I'm still waiting for someone to be able to pull this off in a TWS:



yup, it would never copy the same sound of the original earphones especially if they're only working on matching EQ curves, and i doubt they're using convolution for this app. 

but at least it is better than the Tronsmart non-adjustable, preset only EQ that can't even shave of the bloated  bass on them   

but they do sound great for movies though


----------



## Canabuc

chinmie said:


> yup, it would never copy the same sound of the original earphones especially if they're only working on matching EQ curves, and i doubt they're using convolution for this app.
> 
> but at least it is better than the Tronsmart non-adjustable, preset only EQ that can't even shave of the bloated  bass on them
> 
> but they do sound great for movies though


They have volume control and I imagine tuning will be good


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

Canabuc said:


> They have volume control and I imagine tuning will be good


They've put out some janky tunings in the past. Hopped on that M300 train, thinking they were the poor man's iSine. Suffice to say they fell short. I couldn't find a single combo that made their over-ears tame enough when I had the luxury of Schiit's showroom at my fingertips. I remember when those "extended bass reference" in-ear metal monstrosities were out as well. Good low end, but awfully uncomfortable shells.

Seems like they pretty consistently consumer-tune their non-Monolith gear, so that's what I'd expect to see here. I hope this one succeeds only so they can hopefully can release a Monolith version for picky people like us.


----------



## Canabuc

This is a monolith product


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

Canabuc said:


> This is a monolith product


Good catch. It's been a day.


----------



## Canabuc




----------



## bladefd (Apr 11, 2021)

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Knowing Monoprice, they've sourced the same design and made minor modifications. Fwiw, I've used Sonarworks before; I think the prospect of making every pair sound "reference" seems fun, but it was pretty poorly executed when I had been giving it a try. I wouldn't make that your selling point.
> 
> They don't seem way off in price, at least. Could be good. Not this good, though. I'm still waiting for someone to be able to pull this off in a TWS:


I feel a lot of stuff Monoprice sells with their company label are products manufactured by other companies, but Monoprice seem to have contracts to label it Monoprice. These products are very similar to other products from other companies and have good pricing, which makes me think it is made in China and perhaps just perhaps reverse-engineered.

That always worries me. Huge chunk of Chifi is pretty much right down that reverse-engineering alley. That allows them to not have to do their own research and can cheaply copy parts that were designed/developed/made elsewhere (namely USA, Europe, Japan, South Korea) and reverse-engineered. Chinese companies have been known for doing such things for decades. This is exactly why I don't touch Chifi.

I actively avoid Chinese companies if I can do so. I didn't always when I was younger (not that I was aware then), but about a decade ago, I began to realize & learn of the tricks many many of these Chinese companies were using. IP-infringement and reverse-engineering aka stealing entire copyrighted things, re-creating and re-selling with their own label is practically profiting off stealing.

Not that I know if Monoprice is doing something similar (I do not know), but it would make me wonder.


----------



## rhsauer

TK33 said:


> There used to be a CP100z which was designed for TWS but slightly longer than the CP360.  If you are able to find some it may be worth a try too.  I use them on my MW07 Go without any issues.


Looking back through my Amazon order history, I see that over the last several years I've ordered a few pairs of the CP-100z (L) and also a few sets of the CP-360s (which includes L and XL).  Both then CP-100z (L) and the CP-360 (L) have baby blue stems, and I think I always assumed they were the same tips, just renamed.  If they are different, I'm actually not sure which I'm using on the MW08s.  In any event, whatever tip I'm using is working -- good fit, good sound, no pain.


----------



## Charlyro222

Those who have MT.

Is this power consumption on the right iem normal ?

All time listening both earbuds and the left after a few hours all time 100%.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic (Apr 11, 2021)

Charlyro222 said:


> Those who have MT.
> 
> Is this power consumption on the right iem normal ?
> 
> All time listening both earbuds and the left after a few hours all time 100%.


Think something is off with the battery reporting there. They should wear evenly.

What's the phone/DAP?


----------



## Charlyro222

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Think something is off with the battery reporting there. They should wear evenly.
> 
> What's the phone/DAP?


Ibasso DX300


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

Charlyro222 said:


> Ibasso DX300


Sounds like it'd be worth reaching out to them and explaining the issue. By the sound of it, the buds aren't reporting battery accurately back to the app and that's why you're not seeing a difference. The following things can sometimes un-stick it:

Force-closing and reopening the Melomania app
Putting the problem bud back in its case until it starts slowly blinking amber, then pulling it back out again (forces a disconnect/reconnect)
Hope one of them helps. Good luck!


----------



## potix

miserybeforethemusic said:


> My tip-rolling with the Technics was fruitless and I ended up sticking to the stock ones. Have a feeling that thicker core has a lot to do with the overall signature and I didn't want to risk messing it up too much.


I think you are right, I was feeling the airiness and details were killed by the spinfits that have a smaller core and hole. I had some spare time today and I tried modding the Technics tips putting in them some cheap foamies I had in a box. Now they sound as I would, but comfort is not the best probably because the foam is too much dense.
Does anybody know which foam tips are the softest ones?


----------



## Charlyro222

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Sounds like it'd be worth reaching out to them and explaining the issue. By the sound of it, the buds aren't reporting battery accurately back to the app and that's why you're not seeing a difference. The following things can sometimes un-stick it:
> 
> Force-closing and reopening the Melomania app
> Putting the problem bud back in its case until it starts slowly blinking amber, then pulling it back out again (forces a disconnect/reconnect)
> Hope one of them helps. Good luck!


Few things went wrong.
1.- Problem with the app on the Ibasso DX300. Now is ok.
2,. Problem with the pins conector on the right iem. Now is ok.
3.- Problems with volumen increasing and decrasing when BT Connected. Solved too

Once solved problems, let´s play with de MT.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

Charlyro222 said:


> Few things went wrong.
> 1.- Problem with the app on the Ibasso DX300. Now is ok.
> 2,. Problem with the pins conector on the right iem. Now is ok.
> 3.- Problems with volumen increasing and decrasing when BT Connected. Solved too
> ...


Glad you worked through it. That DX300 looks an absolute beast. Have fun!


----------



## Charlyro222

Absolutely  true. Is a beast. Sending a descomunal power over BT to the MT.


----------



## Canabuc

Charlyro222 said:


> Absolutely  true. Is a beast. Sending a descomunal power over BT to the MT.


?


----------



## Charlyro222

The Ibasso DX300 and the Cambridge Audio Melomania Touch. 
After solving the initial problems, a great combo has born.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

Charlyro222 said:


> Absolutely  true. Is a beast. Sending a descomunal power over BT to the MT.


Tesla was right about a lot. _A lot_.

Glad you're loving it! Had a blast enjoying the 1950s-ish recording of Tchaikovsky's _1812 Overture _last night on the R5 Saber. These DAPs are impressive beasts!


----------



## bronco1015

Canabuc said:


> Anybody have the issue where they find their true Wireless earbud does not sound as loud as they want? I've noticed this was an issue for the Sennheiser and to a lesser but still true extend for the Huawei freebuds pro. However the Sony and the Melomania touch or significantly louder by comparison. I have an Android Samsung phone and decided to look up how to fix this on YouTube and discovered that by disabling the absolute volume it has a two-fold effect. the first effect is it decouples the Bluetooth volume on your phone and your earbuds such that they now work independently of one another after rebooting the phone. what this means is that you can have the volume on your buds at 100% but the phone's bluetooth volume still at 50 and so you're absolute output would still only be 50%. However if you then set your media volume on the phone to maximum and just control the volume with the earbuds it gets a significantly louder than when the two are synced together without the absolute volume disable button turned on in developer settings.
> 
> well I know this is a little less convenient because now it means when you change the volume it is not changing everything at the same time, it does give that extra volume if you need it to your earbuds.
> 
> ...


Now I understand why the MTW2 wasn't loud enough for you. Disabling absolute volume is basically a must for me on every phone and i'll usually put phone volume at 100% or close to it and have the TWE at a way lower volume.


----------



## Canabuc

bronco1015 said:


> Now I understand why the MTW2 wasn't loud enough for you. Disabling absolute volume is basically a must for me on every phone and i'll usually put phone volume at 100% or close to it and have the TWE at a way lower volume.


Even doing so that we're the lowest volume tws of any I have tried


----------



## bronco1015

Canabuc said:


> Even doing so that we're the lowest volume tws of any I have tried


Crazy. Only say that because knock on wood, i haven't had a low volume problem with any set i've bought or review set I've gotten that i can think of. Sure we all have different hearing levels, tollerances, preferences of how loud we listen, but each phone OEM might have different ideas for volume control. With the MTW2 cranked i can comfortably hear everything while they sit in front of me right next to each other on my desk. I wouldn't dare put them in my ears at that level. not even at 80%.


----------



## Canabuc

bronco1015 said:


> Crazy. Only say that because knock on wood, i haven't had a low volume problem with any set i've bought or review set I've gotten that i can think of. Sure we all have different hearing levels, tollerances, preferences of how loud we listen, but each phone OEM might have different ideas for volume control. With the MTW2 cranked i can comfortably hear everything while they sit in front of me right next to each other on my desk. I wouldn't dare put them in my ears at that level. not even at 80%.


Well for me I needed to put them at 80 instead of 65%


----------



## bronco1015

pkcpga said:


> Started a collection of wireless buds, Sony WF-1000XM3, Sennheiser Momentum True 2 and Noble Falcon Pro.
> Out of the three best out of box sound was the Sony, Sennheiser was better when equalized (hifi mode) and Noble was much better when equalized.
> Ranked
> 1. Noble’s out of the box sound pretty meh, plenty of detail but very V shaped with recessed vocals.  Luckily Noble app has the best equalizer out of all of the ones I’ve tried.  And the equalizer setting stays saved with the IEMs so when switching from my phone to Fiio m15 or iPad or A&K, my settings are all saved.  Not the case on the Sennheiser’s.  The Noble’s require the most playing with the EQ but once set they are drastically more detailed, better bass control and better dynamics then the other two.  Noble includes the newest Apt X which when used with the m15 sounds great, much better sub bass, dynamic bass, more details and air in highs.  I’m sure having BA for highs helps with the dynamic driver for lows, the vocals due have a BA which is both good and bad.  It’s a modern BA so timbre is pretty good but the Sennheiser is definitely the best of the 3 for vocals.  Noble’s mids need a bunch of EQ to sound textured and less thin.  Also dropping the 4K EQ to get rid of sibilance.  Although after EQ it is definitely the best of the group.
> ...


----------



## samandhi

I actually agree with both of you (@miserybeforethemusic and @Canabuc ) for your preferred sound signatures. Timbre, tone, and imaging are very important to me (soundstage not as much, though I DO like wide). If the driver is tuned well, but is off in tonality, or the sound is congested then it doesn't really matter if it is tuned well IMO. 

On the other hand (or maybe in addition to) I like the W signature. If any one of these parts of the W are off then it doesn't sound right to me. I DO like bass, but only if it is quality bass, but not overly done like the MT are to me out of the box. I like it punchy and not bloated regardless of the quantity. I guess I really love planar type of bass for this. Mids are very important to me, and I can't stand when you have to strain to hear things meant for the middle. This also means I like clarity in the mids, if they are boosted a bit to mean anything. Treble does combine to create this some, but I have heard some with really rolled off treble, but very clear mids so... Treble is also very important for me. I am getting older, so I might require a bit more to make it sound clear, but am not so lacking in hearing treble that I can't hear sibilance, or shrillness. Detail retrieval is, in part, the result of great treble, and HAS to be in there. 

I hated the MT when I first got them because all of those things were totally off for me (in stock form). The bass was just way over-cooked (though pretty punchy, and not flabby), and the mids were just so recessed that I had a hard time hearing any detail in that area, and treble was almost "Sennheiser veiled" for me, which is not to say it was horrible, but just too warm in that front, and lacking in detail retrieval. 

I have come to the conclusion that the MT's best quality is their bass albeit way over boosted (a good dynamic driver sounding bass, but with some punchiness). The N6P have some really nice detail retrieval (lovely clarity lacking on the MT). The TWS600 have really great mids (but way overcooked upper mids, to the point of shrillness). With a bit of EQ on each, they all sound really nice, but none of them have any special imaging, so can get congested pretty easily. This might be a limitation of the codecs, but IMO this is one of the biggest things holding TWS back from being audiophile grade sound. 

I didn't even mention the Bose Soundsport Free because they ONLY do SBC, and while they are tuned very well (especially for buds that don't go in your ear), the bottleneck is apparent when comparing to the contemporary sound of the others. Out and about in a noisy environment, this might not matter as much, but as I wrote much earlier, I am spoiled by audiophile quality headphones, so they no longer cut it (except in that situation).


----------



## miserybeforethemusic (Apr 12, 2021)

samandhi said:


> I actually agree with both of you (@miserybeforethemusic and @Canabuc ) for your preferred sound signatures. Timbre, tone, and imaging are very important to me (soundstage not as much, though I DO like wide). If the driver is tuned well, but is off in tonality, or the sound is congested then it doesn't really matter if it is tuned well IMO.
> 
> On the other hand (or maybe in addition to) I like the W signature. If any one of these parts of the W are off then it doesn't sound right to me. I DO like bass, but only if it is quality bass, but not overly done like the MT are to me out of the box. I like it punchy and not bloated regardless of the quantity. I guess I really love planar type of bass for this. Mids are very important to me, and I can't stand when you have to strain to hear things meant for the middle. This also means I like clarity in the mids, if they are boosted a bit to mean anything. Treble does combine to create this some, but I have heard some with really rolled off treble, but very clear mids so... Treble is also very important for me. I am getting older, so I might require a bit more to make it sound clear, but am not so lacking in hearing treble that I can't hear sibilance, or shrillness. Detail retrieval is, in part, the result of great treble, and HAS to be in there.
> 
> ...


I think a lot of our impressions of these TWS come from our bases for comparison, too. You've had the advantage of testing out the Nuarl which, based on everything I've read, demonstrates that they have an extremely realistic midrange. I can see elements of that scattered about multiple sets, but no one set contains the lot. The NFP, UE, Technics, and JBL have come the closest so far (I have obviously not tried everything out there). I had high hopes for the HiBy for the tunability aspect, but I'm afraid they're just too V-shaped to bring out nuances. They have their moments, though, and more than I originally thought there would be. Still have the Hifiman offerings in my sights, but in the distant future at this point.

Speaking for myself, that desire for realistic timbre above frequency response stems from me wanting to be able to close my eyes, stop being in my current space, and momentarily exist in the recording space (whatever that may be for the recording). If it's too monitor-like, I can't get that, and that's what it took me years to learn while chasing that "neutrality" unicorn. There's plenty of neutral pairs out there; not so many that create realistic soundscapes (yes, I'm fully aware of how cliché that sounds).

As far as the MT are concerned, I've realized that I appreciate their warmth over everything else. They're far from the standard for the majority of technical aspects that most headphones are reviewed by. Yet, reviews be darned, there's still a really admirable quality to them. Honestly, it's their character I love. It's now a known quantity, I want it in my collection, and I don't want to give it up. That's enough to put them at the top of any rankings list for a good while for me, growing pains and all. Once you get an EQ capable enough to start cutting away at the bloom, there's a lot of good texture in the lower mids to pull. Pretty sure I mentioned before that they're unapologetically British and I meant it; it's a unique sonic characteristic I lend to a lot of equipment that came out of the area over the past half century. Best analogy I can come up with is the difference between amping through Vox, Marshall, Peavey, Orange, and Krank. Based on the region and time period, you're going to get a pretty characterizable sound.

Let this be a warning, cutting through the siren's calls to buy better and better dedicated source gear: if you've only got a smartphone and (at a luxury) a couple hundred bucks, there's a lot of good options here. The rabbit hole goes deeper, but it doesn't have many stopping points. Take that for whatever it's worth.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

Guess I should update my impressions on the WH3 at this point, shouldn't I? Keep in mind these are purely on the "Balanced" preset within the HiBy app (or a 2700Hz crossover, for the more technical types).

I don't think I could call this sound signature memorable. They have tons of impact and manage to avoid being shouty or sibilant, but they're not very exceptional, either. The DD is capable of plenty of slam, but I think it also ends up being the WH3's achilles heel, because at no point does it feel capable of being tamed enough to not overwhelm the overall sound signature. Perhaps you could sit down with MSEB or a good parametric and smooth out the bass energy, but without it, I'm afraid it's not my cup of tea. You end up with a severe

The single most value-added upgrade I performed was just doing a tip swap. In the cases of both the Final TWS tips and the SpinFit CP360, they massively improve comfort. Between the metal nozzle digging into my inner ear and the relatively unforgiving round earbud body, the WH3 seem to favor eartips that bloom out more in shape. If you decide to tip-roll with these, I suggest you start looking at wide bore, short loft, wide shroud tips. Anyone who has the M&D TWS should be able to understand what I mean. You'll want that big diameter on the shroud to help insulate your ears from the metal nozzles. Get past that point and, while isolation from external sounds takes a hit, seal is significantly improved. If I had to choose a personal pick at the current moment, I'd probably take the SpinFit's side. It's really close, though.

As for their effect on sound signature I'll say this: the Final TWS tips mostly preserve the stock sound signature, not putting enough of a dent into the excess bass energy for my liking. The SpinFits might be a little over-reductive in the bass department, but those looking for something more neutral might end up quite pleased. I'm not saying it's better, just different. At no point, however, does this pair fail to remind you that the DD in this set is boss overall and will be heard. The WH3 is capable of more than enough punch if desired; it just can't do it with much articulation. If bass texture and definition is what you're after, look elsewhere.

On the opposite end of the FR, I'm equally torn. I don't think I've ever thought the WH3 were fatiguing in the treble but treble almost seems shelved, so a lot of the cymbal sounds lose that kind of decay that helps add to a sense of realism. Here, the bass seems to have free reign to extend as far and for as long as it wants, yet treble remains on a short leash. Combine this with a relatively recessed midrange and you end up with a sound signature that's pretty distant. If you were to think of it in terms of opera/arena seating, these put you in the Mezzanine. Not quite the nosebleeds, but far enough away that you wish you could be a little closer. While the WH3 might be a party, you never feel like you're _in_ the party, just watching from a distance.

Unfortunately, I cannot test UAT (their proprietary wireless Hi-Res codec) at this time as the R5 Saber wouldn't allow me to enable UAT in Developer Options at all. And then the R5 Saber itself gave up the ghost entirely. UAT testing will be on indefinite pause.

If you'll pretty much only be listening to Electronic music (in all its forms), Hip-Hop, etc, then the WH3 will do you great. Just don't expect them to recreate cavernous spaces or slice through your tracks with surgical precision. Instead of getting a HD6XX, you're getting an AT M50X or Senn HD 280 Pro. Not necessarily a bad thing; just gotta know what you're getting yourself into.


----------



## samandhi

miserybeforethemusic said:


> I think a lot of our impressions of these TWS come from our bases for comparison, too. You've had the advantage of testing out the Nuarl which, based on everything I've read, demonstrates that they have an extremely realistic midrange. I can see elements of that scattered about multiple sets, but no one set contains the lot. The NFP, UE, Technics, and JBL have come the closest so far (I have obviously not tried everything out there). I had high hopes for the HiBy for the tunability aspect, but I'm afraid they're just too V-shaped to bring out nuances. They have their moments, though, and more than I originally thought there would be. Still have the Hifiman offerings in my sights, but in the distant future at this point.
> 
> Speaking for myself, that desire for realistic timbre above frequency response stems from me wanting to be able to close my eyes, stop being in my current space, and momentarily exist in the recording space (whatever that may be for the recording). If it's too monitor-like, I can't get that, and that's what it took me years to learn while chasing that "neutrality" unicorn. There's plenty of neutral pairs out there; not so many that create realistic soundscapes (yes, I'm fully aware of how cliché that sounds).
> 
> ...


Yeah, the N6P have some really fine qualities (if you can get over the initial stock sound, and after burn-in, or brain burn-in, whichever you believe in). In the end, the tuning is nice, and they actually wear more like an IEM than most TWS do, so that helps IMO. I am sorry that the Hiby are not working out great for you, but they are automatically disqualified from my list because I will not wear TWS with stems. The Hifimans actually have a better midrange than the N6P. Minus that hump in the upper mid, they are very detailed and clear, but yet rich and full. 

This is where (and perhaps why) I agree with both you and @Canabuc. I ride the fine line between analytical, and fun, and like to have both if I can. This has been a VERY tough thing to find (almost unicorn(ish)), but have found a few IEMs and headphones that have done just this, for my ears. Most of the time I desire neutral because I can then change them to how I like my sound. I have yet to find anything that sounds perfect to my ears right out of the box, though I have found some that I CAN listen to without changing if I get lazy..... But, I am with you as far as ignoring some of the neutral offerings because while they do fit the mold for being neutral and can be re-tuned, you really can't add timbre or imaging, or even soundstage. 

As an example (warning for those not interested in anything but TWS), my P1s are far from perfect out of the box, but they have the best imaging of anything (and that includes EVERYTHING over/on/in ears) I have ever heard. The soundstage is small, though not claustrophobic, but overall get the most things right that I need to have to be satisfied IMO. Then there is the FR curve. Again, it is not perfect, but it is so close to what I like that I call them perfect for me (after a bit of EQ). 

I think that we can all agree that there is no such thing as perfect tuning for our ears, so we simply try and find the headphone/IEM/TWS that has the least compromises that we can find for the price we are willing to pay. This (IMO) is the whole reason us addicts keep coming back for more, hoping to find a set that is closer to that "perfect" we can find. Because, for myself, I have had many that have been plenty good enough if I were just willing to STOP... 

Yeah, it even says it on the box: *Great British sound. *I DO like their sound, but ultimately miss the details I don't get to hear. I also agree with a comment you made earlier, in that I believe they HAVE been tweaking (subtly) the sound over the FW revisions. For the better IMO. I have recently turned the EQ back to balanced, and find that I can actually listen to them without bit****g about it too much. They are also permanently in my collection regardless if I complain about them or not. I also have not had any of the issues others have talked about (thankfully, and "knock on wood"). 


miserybeforethemusic said:


> Guess I should update my impressions on the WH3 at this point, shouldn't I? Keep in mind these are purely on the "Balanced" preset within the HiBy app (or a 2700Hz crossover, for the more technical types).
> 
> I don't think I could call this sound signature memorable. They have tons of impact and manage to avoid being shouty or sibilant, but they're not very exceptional, either. The DD is capable of plenty of slam, but I think it also ends up being the WH3's achilles heel, because at no point does it feel capable of being tamed enough to not overwhelm the overall sound signature. Perhaps you could sit down with MSEB or a good parametric and smooth out the bass energy, but without it, I'm afraid it's not my cup of tea. You end up with a severe
> 
> ...


Thanks for the impressions. 

Oh no, do you mean your Saber is not working at all? What happened?

I have found that my phone has been gimped, as far as BT codecs go. I have the Samsung Note 9. It does not have AptX HD, or AptX LL, or TWS+, and if you use Samsung buds, they will only allow you to choose their proprietary scalable codec. And, from what I have read, it is not great! This is rather counter intuitive if you ask me. They take away the phone jack, tell you that you can only use BT, and then gimp the codecs you can use. In all fairness, this phone still has the jack, but it also used to have all the codecs. They silently removed these through the life of the phone's update lifecycle. I am glad I have the iBasso DX160 if I need any of those (which I do). BTW, I also have the Note 10, and those codecs are also missing from it (and that phone does NOT have the jack)... Guess my next phone won't be a Samsung. LOL


----------



## miserybeforethemusic (Apr 12, 2021)

samandhi said:


> Oh no, do you mean your Saber is not working at all? What happened?


Yep, it died mid-listen. Arranging an exchange with MusicTeck wasn't hard. Just can't cross-ship, so it'll be a bit before I get the replacement up and running. The DX160 (2020 update) would have been my second choice and is probably the better pick for people with bigger fingers. R5 pushes the limit for a "usable" small screen. The gobs of power more than make up for it, though, which is why I'm willing to patiently await its return.

I enjoyed what you mentioned about the P1. Curious to see what I can extract from them once they arrive. A little worried for just how much they'll upstage the TWS, especially in the technical categories.

WH3 in "Hybrid" mode (10kHz crossover), so far, sounds better to my ears than the "Balanced" 2700. DD still has a lot of energy, but it seems more composed now. Stems are manageable and I find they help a ton with insertion and removal. There's flexibility in how you can insert these to get a good seal, which means you can have the stems lifted a little from the skin; they pick up zero microphonics from my beard. I'm not the biggest fan of them either, but I'm good with this implementation. More shining moments in the midrange and lower treble now, so that's good.

Oh and I can fit the buds back into the case with SpinFits on..it's a tight, not confident fit, but the charging pins make contact and the case lid helps maintain it. I don't think these would be able to do foams very well. I'll try to find out this week.


----------



## samandhi

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Yep, it died mid-listen. Arranging an exchange with MusicTeck wasn't hard. Just can't cross-ship, so it'll be a bit before I get the replacement up and running. The DX160 (2020 update) would have been my second choice and is probably the better pick for people with bigger fingers. R5 pushes the limit for a "usable" small screen. The gobs of power more than make up for it, though, which is why I'm willing to patiently await its return.
> 
> I enjoyed what you mentioned about the P1. Curious to see what I can extract from them once they arrive. A little worried for just how much they'll upstage the TWS, especially in the technical categories.
> 
> ...


Oh, now that just sucks! Glad it isn't too difficult though. I haven't actually heard the 2020 version (and until you mentioned it, forgot all about that there are differences). I have the 2019 version. From what I have read the 2020 version doesn't sound better per se'. People have reported that they found the soundstage to be a tad wider, and that it was no longer as much on the warm side of neutral, but that is not a wide-spread comment AFAIK. No, you probably chose the right one for you. It seems as though you like to use Bluetooth quite a bit, and while the DX160 is perfectly serviceable in that category, it is not the strongest connection unless you carry the device while you are listening. Yeah, the amp sections on any of the newer "mid-tier" DAPS are just insane for the money compared to yesteryear. IMO anything close to and above 1W on a mobile device is just crazy... 

Thanks! I think that since you DO play around with tuning a bit, you will find them ultimately a winner, and you SHOULD be nervous about comparing them to any TWS. In the IEM realm they compare (in technicalities and sound) to IEMs closer to the $600 to $800 range (IMO). But, if you are not a big fan of that "planar" sound you won't agree with me, because they are unmistakably planar.  

I DO like the idea of both hybrid drivers (in a TWS) and adjustable crossovers, but I am not sure they should have tried to attempt this on their maiden voyage into TWS. If they would have gotten this right, it could have been huge. Sounds like a bit of a wasted opportunity to me. I just can't bring myself to wearing TWS with stems. I had a hard enough time wearing the "Frankenstein bolts" that were the Bose Soundsport Free. Hell, I wouldn't even wear those damned headsets that had those boom mics in the early 2000's for that reason.


----------



## bladefd

@miserybeforethemusic

Did you ever get your replacement MT? How is the replacement pair? I'm curious because CA got back to me about volume automatically going down 50% on connect and I was told it requires rma. If they just send from the same batch, I will just get another problem unit so I don't know if it's worth the hassle of rma... I would be curious what you got with rma and whether it's another problem buds


----------



## paxanga

jant71 said:


> BGVP back with the second edition of thier TWS, the Q2"s". Still can convert to wired but with MMCX and we'll see what other improvements they will have. Being a Chi-fi brand it will probably again not have an ambient function and unless they made little MMCX covers they won't have an IP rating either. Looks nice though.




Hello everybody.
I've been reading you from the shadows for a long time.
I just wanted to say that the BGVP Q2S TWS are _garbage_
No IPX, no APTX HD / ADAPTIVE
No MMCX cable
Low volume, very low.

Confirmed by talking to the manufacturer in the aliexpress chat.
At least he is honest and shows me the qcc3040 chip but that they do not have a qualcomm license and that for the price that 3d printing is worth and what the product is worth they lose money. HAHA


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

bladefd said:


> @miserybeforethemusic
> 
> Did you ever get your replacement MT? How is the replacement pair? I'm curious because CA got back to me about volume automatically going down 50% on connect and I was told it requires rma. If they just send from the same batch, I will just get another problem unit so I don't know if it's worth the hassle of rma... I would be curious what you got with rma and whether it's another problem buds


I've only done 1 RMA and that's the unit that almost gave me an aneurism when it came in. After discovering that the problem was primarily user error and not the MT themselves (Location Services, you sly dog), I haven't felt any need to return them. They work great. No volume hunting. The HiBy WH3 and Blessing 2 have just taken up all of my listening time over the past week, so I haven't had much to say about the MT. Still well worth it, unless you need resolution monsters. In your case, I'd RMA again. I'd keep RMAing until you get a working copy. But I'm also a stubborn, principled engineer and don't like when things don't work per our requirements. We tend to make the vendor sweat until they make it right as a result.

It's possible the problem is with your buds and it's also possible the problem could be with your source. James (Cambridge) mentioned they've had problems with Huawei and OnePlus phones that were affecting the MT; somehow, OnePlus is being just a little more stubborn with compatibility. Sorry they're still frustrating you; if you can't find your groove with them, my suggestion would be to just work a return and get something else in the hopes it produces less frustration.

The JBL Club Pro+ would be my default next recommendation at the moment. Maybe the HiBy if you don't care about spatial cues and just need an energetic pair that's very decidedly V-shaped, but has enough customizability that you should be able to find a setting that your ears like. They need SpinFits, though. So much better with 'em.


----------



## Canabuc

bladefd said:


> @miserybeforethemusic
> 
> Did you ever get your replacement MT? How is the replacement pair? I'm curious because CA got back to me about volume automatically going down 50% on connect and I was told it requires rma. If they just send from the same batch, I will just get another problem unit so I don't know if it's worth the hassle of rma... I would be curious what you got with rma and whether it's another problem buds


 had same issue with mine too on 2 different pairs. Think will need firmware to fix.
Decided to return mine. Too many glitches be it connection or case design.

Willeither get the 1+instead or wait for something better to come out or for them to fix these issues in the next batch .


----------



## diimaan

Luke Skywalker said:


> Awesome thank you.  They don’t stay in my ears quite as well when I’m at the gym, maybe because the surfaces are more smooth.  They sound awesome


Ahh! You might want to check XELASTEC for APP! Which would fit the KEF’s! Spinfit might be a little too close with the case! But depends on the size! For KEF it’s Spinfit CP-360


----------



## clerkpalmer

Got these UE fits today with the hope that they will seal enough to be usable on my bike.  Definitely a well polished product.  Case and build quality are pretty nice.  Set up was a breeze.  App works well and directions were idiot proof.  The molding process is pretty subtle - I wouldn't expect magic here.  They definitely "tightened up" fit wise but it is not night and day from the way they were before the molding.  That said they do seem to fit pretty well post-molding.  My right ear isn't as good as the left but that's a common issue for me.  Shaking my head and they stay put.  

Sound quality is fine.  I'd call it middle of the pack and probably not worthy of the price tag.  Sound is balanced with some bass emphasis.  Consumer oriented without being over the top.  Not much to say here.  These are not M&D or Sennheiser (or even Sony) killers.  

The real test will be wind noise outside.  We will see.  The design suggests to me they will pick up a lot of wind but my hope is the seal will make it irrelevant.  I'll report back after the bike ride.

Overall, it's a nice enough package but the molding/fit is the primary draw here and it's benefits are moderate at best.  I have also achieved good results with Bose stay hear tips without all the fancy molding tech.  These would be more compelling at $150.  If they work on the bike, they will probably be keepers, otherwise, back to Amazon they go.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

clerkpalmer said:


> Got these UE fits today with the hope that they will seal enough to be usable on my bike.  Definitely a well polished product.  Case and build quality are pretty nice.  Set up was a breeze.  App works well and directions were idiot proof.  The molding process is pretty subtle - I wouldn't expect magic here.  They definitely "tightened up" fit wise but it is not night and day from the way they were before the molding.  That said they do seem to fit pretty well post-molding.  My right ear isn't as good as the left but that's a common issue for me.  Shaking my head and they stay put.
> 
> Sound quality is fine.  I'd call it middle of the pack and probably not worthy of the price tag.  Sound is balanced with some bass emphasis.  Consumer oriented without being over the top.  Not much to say here.  These are not M&D or Sennheiser (or even Sony) killers.
> 
> ...


If you get the Size 2 molds instead of the default Size 1, it's more apparent that something happens during the mold process. Pre-mold, there's a thin sheet cast over the hard silicone that seems to firm/tighten up once it's light-treated.

Agreed that they're a hard sell at their normal retail price as well when you realize they have effectively no features of their own and more complicated tap controls are a relatively new feature to the FITS. I won't say so much that they're [brand]-killers as I don't think that's ever been UE's philosophy, even pre-Logitech. They're an entity on their own; one I sometimes wonder why I've added to my collection, then 45 minutes of listening in, remember exactly why. Similar to how the pleasing qualities of the MT are hard to quantify, the FITS' sound signature seems very, very neutral. The UE Signature preset does attempt to pick up everything from midbass-down and upper midrange-up, but it does so extremely subtly and I have to admire that. Curious to see what you think of them long-term.

Here's to hoping they help with your road noise issues. Don't have many doubts about fit stability, even once you start to sweat. Should be more than covered there.

Most of all..._enjoy them_. Congrats on the new arrival.


----------



## clerkpalmer

miserybeforethemusic said:


> If you get the Size 2 molds instead of the default Size 1, it's more apparent that something happens during the mold process. Pre-mold, there's a thin sheet cast over the hard silicone that seems to firm/tighten up once it's light-treated.
> 
> Agreed that they're a hard sell at their normal retail price as well when you realize they have effectively no features of their own and more complicated tap controls are a relatively new feature to the FITS. I won't say so much that they're [brand]-killers as I don't think that's ever been UE's philosophy, even pre-Logitech. They're an entity on their own; one I sometimes wonder why I've added to my collection, then 45 minutes of listening in, remember exactly why. Similar to how the pleasing qualities of the MT are hard to quantify, the FITS' sound signature seems very, very neutral. The UE Signature preset does attempt to pick up everything from midbass-down and upper midrange-up, but it does so extremely subtly and I have to admire that. Curious to see what you think of them long-term.
> 
> ...


I think the molds are ok - just my funny right ear. They do have a pleasing and smooth sound signature. Certainly something to be said for that. A little warm for my liking but I can adjust that.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic (Apr 12, 2021)

clerkpalmer said:


> I think the molds are ok - just my funny right ear. They do have a pleasing and smooth sound signature. Certainly something to be said for that. A little warm for my liking but I can adjust that.


Funny as in it feels loose or finicky? You may want to consider bugging UE to send you the Size 2 tips. Had the same issue myself where I never felt confident about the way it would stay in my ear. Going up a size did help. Left was fine the first time around fwiw.

Started putting together another massive demo playlist last night since I was getting _way_ too familiar with the tracks I was using. May be your cup of tea, may not, but I tried to put a little bit of everything I could think of into it. It's not a single-sitting sort of playlist, but kudos to you if you want to give it a shot anyway. Just know the material in this playlist is what I'm using to demo; some people are into that sort of thing:

http://open.qobuz.com/playlist/5968984


Disclaimer: Not all content in that playlist is family-friendly. Listen responsibly.


----------



## erockg

clerkpalmer said:


> I think the molds are ok - just my funny right ear. They do have a pleasing and smooth sound signature. Certainly something to be said for that. A little warm for my liking but I can adjust that.


I had the same issue with my right ear.  I just got the Size 2 from UE on Saturday.  Have to mold them.  Shoot them an email, or reach out to them via the app.


----------



## bladefd

miserybeforethemusic said:


> I've only done 1 RMA and that's the unit that almost gave me an aneurism when it came in. After discovering that the problem was primarily user error and not the MT themselves (Location Services, you sly dog), I haven't felt any need to return them. They work great. No volume hunting. The HiBy WH3 and Blessing 2 have just taken up all of my listening time over the past week, so I haven't had much to say about the MT. Still well worth it, unless you need resolution monsters. In your case, I'd RMA again. I'd keep RMAing until you get a working copy. But I'm also a stubborn, principled engineer and don't like when things don't work per our requirements. We tend to make the vendor sweat until they make it right as a result.
> 
> It's possible the problem is with your buds and it's also possible the problem could be with your source. James (Cambridge) mentioned they've had problems with Huawei and OnePlus phones that were affecting the MT; somehow, OnePlus is being just a little more stubborn with compatibility. Sorry they're still frustrating you; if you can't find your groove with them, my suggestion would be to just work a return and get something else in the hopes it produces less frustration.
> 
> The JBL Club Pro+ would be my default next recommendation at the moment. Maybe the HiBy if you don't care about spatial cues and just need an energetic pair that's very decidedly V-shaped, but has enough customizability that you should be able to find a setting that your ears like. They need SpinFits, though. So much better with 'em.


Unfortunately, I'm past the 3 month return window so I don't see them refunding me. I could get the rma then sell it brand new, but idk if I would get very much for it considering the issues many of them have.



Canabuc said:


> had same issue with mine too on 2 different pairs. Think will need firmware to fix.
> Decided to return mine. Too many glitches be it connection or case design.
> 
> Willeither get the 1+instead or wait for something better to come out or for them to fix these issues in the next batch .


That's not a good sign lol. Might be best just waiting a couple months then I guess and hope it is a better batch. Volume issue is fairly minor so I can probably be okay for couple months, hoping a firmware fixes it.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic (Apr 12, 2021)

bladefd said:


> Unfortunately, I'm past the 3 month return window so I don't see them refunding me. I could get the rma then sell it brand new, but idk if I would get very much for it considering the issues many of them have.


I've had a few of those "oh well" purchases in the past. Here's my suggestion:

Get the RMA. When it shows up, leave it boxed and keep your eye on update cycles. When that next firmware version rolls our, unbox your MTs and see if things have improved. At least in my case, I have a tendency to hyper-focus on the things in my life that need repair. Have to remind myself sometimes that it's okay to leave something incomplete/on pause.

For all you know, you could be one firmware update (phone or buds) from all this being a non-issue.


----------



## erockg

clerkpalmer said:


> I think the molds are ok - just my funny right ear. They do have a pleasing and smooth sound signature. Certainly something to be said for that. A little warm for my liking but I can adjust that.


Alright, so I just molded my Size 2s.  MUCH better.  During the Molding process, I left my mouth open slightly, pulled back on my ear, slotted them in and held them with slight pressure.  My right ear has a better seal now.  Just sharing...


----------



## clerkpalmer

erockg said:


> Alright, so I just molded my Size 2s.  MUCH better.  During the Molding process, I left my mouth open slightly, pulled back on my ear, slotted them in and held them with slight pressure.  My right ear has a better seal now.  Just sharing...


Cool. Thanks everyone. I requested the size 2s.


----------



## soullinker20

to UE fits users, is the tap control not that much sensitive? I don't know if i have a defective unit because i find it hard to activate the double tap. it's miss almost all the time for me


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

soullinker20 said:


> to UE fits users, is the tap control not that much sensitive? I don't know if i have a defective unit because i find it hard to activate the double tap. it's miss almost all the time for me


Not defective. Touch controls on these things can be pretty wonky. They have been getting better through updates.

I usually don't use touch controls on any TWS, though, so take that with a grain of salt.


----------



## Canabuc (Apr 13, 2021)

Been playing with my L2P
 Find a pertussis preset that I think is new compared to the old app.  Seems I haven't been kind to these.  I had listened to them head to head tuned with the equalizer or with this presetand they sound very similar to the MT

Great south and sound stage.  Vocals and mud range used to be the issue as well as over powered bass and sharp treble. But equalizer really ranges them and man they do sound good. Don't think I will miss my MT after this equalizer adjustment. Anyone using the stock sound signature would be disappointed. But now.... they sound so much better than I remember.

Anyone with these try the Riley Mackin preset

That said my top 3 for sound are still Fiil T1 pro, JBL club pro plus and MT .


----------



## SemiAudiophile (Apr 13, 2021)

samandhi said:


> Yeah, the N6P have some really fine qualities (if you can get over the initial stock sound, and after burn-in, or brain burn-in, whichever you believe in). In the end, the tuning is nice, and they actually wear more like an IEM than most TWS do, so that helps IMO. I am sorry that the Hiby are not working out great for you, but they are automatically disqualified from my list because I will not wear TWS with stems. The Hifimans actually have a better midrange than the N6P. Minus that hump in the upper mid, they are very detailed and clear, but yet rich and full.
> 
> This is where (and perhaps why) I agree with both you and @Canabuc. I ride the fine line between analytical, and fun, and like to have both if I can. This has been a VERY tough thing to find (almost unicorn(ish)), but have found a few IEMs and headphones that have done just this, for my ears. Most of the time I desire neutral because I can then change them to how I like my sound. I have yet to find anything that sounds perfect to my ears right out of the box, though I have found some that I CAN listen to without changing if I get lazy..... But, I am with you as far as ignoring some of the neutral offerings because while they do fit the mold for being neutral and can be re-tuned, you really can't add timbre or imaging, or even soundstage.
> 
> ...



I'm in the same boat and like them analytical but fun at the same time. But we can't have our cake and eat it too I guess.  Well, out of the 3 IEMs in my collection, I guess the ZAX would fit that bill. They are SUPER fun sounding and have great detail as well. I've been kind of neglecting them ever since I got the Dusk and P1, but revisited them last night and man they are special to my ears (especially when running balanced with the DUW-02 cable). Honestly, the ZAX has been the most impressive out of the 3, especially given the price point. I would say their main strengths is their expansive soundstage (almost open-back headphone like) and layering capability. They can make badly recorded mainstream pop songs sound really good. The sound signature is U-shaped but not in a bad way. Vocals sound clear, perhaps slightly recessed, but with great detail. Otherwise, pretty balanced sounding. I think they do vocals better than the N6P (which were my favorite for TWS). Listening to Billie Eilish for example, sounded great on the Dusk and P1, but they sounded amazing on the ZAX with the much wider soundstage and layering. Bass is tight with good punch (maybe lacking definition), and treble is just enough where there's good detail without any harshness (there is a slight roll off at the upper treble though). They're a really versatile jack-of-all-trades type IEM. Also, depending on the source, I was running Tidal from my PC to the Hip Dac (versus using my phone), I swore some recordings sounded like I was listening to a HD audio cassette tape. Super smooth and analog sounding.

The P1's sound pretty close to the Sundara when driven out of the Hip Dac. Tuning is similar where I think there is more emphasis on mids/treble and more on the lean side. Although, I have a feeling I haven't unlocked their full potential, and will sound much different when driven by a proper desktop amp.  I actually find the soundstage on the P1 to be pretty good. Still "in your head" feeling but very wide and airy compared to other IEMs/TWS.

I've been hesitant to give my impressions of the Dusk since I feel like I haven't spent enough time with them yet. My first impressions were unremarkable. They sound very good, but I think because of all the hype, I had really high expectations for them. Tonality wise, I think they are near perfect. I guess they somewhat remind me of the HD650 having a "darker" type of sound. But their biggest weakness to me is their soundstage and treble roll off. Soundstage is slightly above average at best. They sound really good, but when there are busy passages, it can get quite congested. For Vocals, I'd give them the slight edge over the P1 and the ZAX. But for acoustic guitar, they would be dead last (behind the Tevi, GT220, CX400 as well) due to the treble roll off. I actually went back to the stock tips for these. For some reason, the small tips made the soundstage even worse and narrow. The Spinfit CP155 did help with soundstage, but made the overall sound slightly leaner (may not be a bad thing). I eventually settled with medium stock tips and they sound just right.

Dunu EST112 on the way...these are gonna be the "endgame" IEMs for me (and the last purchase of the year ). I've actually been eyeing the Clairvoyance as I wanted to try an "electrostatic" IEM. But after hearing news about the EST112, seeing its FR graph,  and positive early impressions, these were pretty much a must buy. 

I actually don't think there will ever be "The One" perfect headphone/IEM/TWS...even if there was, I'd eventually get bored of them. I like having different flavors and options and switching it up every one in a while. Keeps things exciting!


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

SemiAudiophile said:


> I'm in the same boat and like them analytical but fun at the same time. But we can't have our cake and eat it too I guess.  Well, out of the 3 IEMs in my collection, I guess the ZAX would fit that bill. They are SUPER fun sounding and have great detail as well. I've been kind of neglecting them ever since I got the Dusk and P1, but revisited them last night and man they are special to my ears (especially when running balanced with the DUW-02 cable). Honestly, the ZAX has been the most impressive out of the 3, especially given the price point. I would say their main strengths is their expansive soundstage (almost open-back headphone like) and layering capability. They can make badly recorded mainstream pop songs sound really good. The sound signature is U-shaped but not in a bad way. Vocals sound clear, perhaps slightly recessed, but with great detail. Otherwise, pretty balanced sounding. I think they do vocals better than the N6P (which were my favorite for TWS). Listening to Billie Eilish for example, sounded great on the Dusk and P1, but they sounded amazing on the ZAX with the much wider soundstage and layering. Bass is tight with good punch (maybe lacking definition), and treble is just enough where there's good detail without any harshness (there is a slight roll off at the upper treble though). They're a really versatile jack-of-all-trades type IEM. Also, depending on the source, I was running Tidal from my PC to the Hip Dac (versus using my phone), I swore some recordings sounded like I was listening to a HD audio cassette tape. Super smooth and analog sounding.
> 
> The P1's sound pretty close to the Sundara when driven out of the Hip Dac. Tuning is similar where I think there is more emphasis on mids/treble and more on the lean side. Although, I have a feeling I haven't unlocked their full potential, and will sound much different when driven by a proper desktop amp.  I actually find the soundstage on the P1 to be pretty good. Still "in your head" feeling but very wide and airy compared to other IEMs/TWS.
> 
> ...


Almost got the EST, but found the 3001 Pro at a price I couldn't pass up. If the EST112 is tuned at all like the 3001 Pro, you're in for a treat. I won't give any spoilers. Have a feeling they'll be a permanent fixture in your collection.

They give you tons of tips for a reason. Try the ones they make first. My shells are way smaller than yours will be; you probably won't be fussing with fit as much as I was, but anticipate they might feel weird at first.

Another day with the WH3 and they're growing on me. I really like that I can get them in single-handed. It sounds like such a minor perk, but it's tangible. This is a great pair for people who can't do HearThrough and constantly find themselves inserting and removing their earbuds throughout the day. Their "Hybrid" crossover setting is so much more consistent with my preferences than the DD-dominant one was.

I'm still not convinced they're very spacious in their representation. Staging is very narrow, but things luckily do not get that claustrophobic. Some flickering moments of brilliance in the upper midrange, too. Just wish there was more of it.


----------



## soullinker20

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Not defective. Touch controls on these things can be pretty wonky. They have been getting better through updates.
> 
> I usually don't use touch controls on any TWS, though, so take that with a grain of salt.



thanks. that settles it for me then. i guess i'll be using the geminis most of the time because of this issue with the ue fits


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

soullinker20 said:


> thanks. that settles it for me then. i guess i'll be using the geminis most of the time because of this issue with the ue fits


I'll mention if it improves in the future. Hopefully the Gemini remains problem-free on the next firmware update.


----------



## soullinker20 (Apr 13, 2021)

miserybeforethemusic said:


> I'll mention if it improves in the future. Hopefully the Gemini remains problem-free on the next firmware update.



thank You. it's been almost a week now since the latest update on my gemini and so far no problems, no battery drain issue. it's smooth.
what i notice is the right earbud seems to drain a lot faster than the left earbud when using it.

the right earbud seems to be more active because it connects automatically as soon as you pull it out of the chamber.
the left earbud can be used independently but needs to connect manually.

*UPDATE:*

just finished updating *UE fits* to the latest firmware. single tap has been added. designated single taps to +/-volume while double tap L and R is play/pause. single tap is more easier to activate. but when doing double taps what happens is the single tap is more recognized by the earbuds and still double tap is still a miss for almost all the time.


----------



## tiagopinto

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Funny as in it feels loose or finicky? You may want to consider bugging UE to send you the Size 2 tips. Had the same issue myself where I never felt confident about the way it would stay in my ear. Going up a size did help. Left was fine the first time around fwiw.
> 
> Started putting together another massive demo playlist last night since I was getting _way_ too familiar with the tracks I was using. May be your cup of tea, may not, but I tried to put a little bit of everything I could think of into it. It's not a single-sitting sort of playlist, but kudos to you if you want to give it a shot anyway. Just know the material in this playlist is what I'm using to demo; some people are into that sort of thing:
> 
> ...




Thanks for sharing. Will take a listen.


----------



## cr3ativ3

How would you guys rank (only by sound ) the tws sets You have heard !? Which is the best sounding ?

1. technics az70w
2. sennheiser mtw2
3. Apple air pods pro 
4. TRN T300


----------



## clerkpalmer

Gonna go off topic a bit but I think it’s relevant to how we review and assess tws in the grand scheme of this hobby.  What full size cans do folks have for critical listening?

ill start:  Aeon closed Drop X and LCD-2C for me. One open, one closed. Recently had Ananda, Ananda BT, deva and sundara as well. The aeon closed are stunning. The LCD-2C are bass cannons but I’m still trying to figure them out. They do not sound particularly open or spacious and I may prefer the Ananda tbh.

I only reach for my tws when I’m exercising or if I’m doing chores around the house where I need to move around although the Deva are pretty awesome for this purpose and make me wonder if I should get them again.


----------



## soullinker20

cr3ativ3 said:


> How would you guys rank (only by sound ) the tws sets You have heard !? Which is the best sounding ?
> 
> 1. technics az70w
> 2. sennheiser mtw2
> ...



haven't heard #3 &4. if mtw2 has the same sound mtw has then for me mtw2>az70w imho.


----------



## clerkpalmer

25 percent off sale and M&D. MW08 excluded. Which is a bummer and kinda annoying. Don’t advertise a friends and family sale and exclude your most exciting product. Rant over.


----------



## chinmie

clerkpalmer said:


> Gonna go off topic a bit but I think it’s relevant to how we review and assess tws in the grand scheme of this hobby.  What full size cans do folks have for critical listening?
> 
> ill start:  Aeon closed Drop X and LCD-2C for me. One open, one closed. Recently had Ananda, Ananda BT, deva and sundara as well. The aeon closed are stunning. The LCD-2C are bass cannons but I’m still trying to figure them out. They do not sound particularly open or spacious and I may prefer the Ananda tbh.
> 
> I only reach for my tws when I’m exercising or if I’m doing chores around the house where I need to move around although the Deva are pretty awesome for this purpose and make me wonder if I should get them again.



I'm not much of a headphone user, as i like to listen to music mostly while lying down/resting my head on the sofa.. more of an IEM/earbuds guy. 
the only headphone i have and love the sound is the ATH R70X. i also have an old relic ATH M50 (only using it for tracking/recording), and XM3 (adequately sounding if EQd, nice feature as a whole package)


----------



## jant71

https://mm.jbl.com/true-wireless/LIVE-PRO-PLUS-TWS-.html

11mm drivers vs 6.8 in the Club Pro+ but $20 cheaper and worse specs10-20 on the range vs. 20-20 for the Live.


----------



## clerkpalmer

chinmie said:


> I'm not much of a headphone user, as i like to listen to music mostly while lying down/resting my head on the sofa.. more of an IEM/earbuds guy.
> the only headphone i have and love the sound is the ATH R70X. i also have an old relic ATH M50 (only using it for tracking/recording), and XM3 (adequately sounding if EQd, nice feature as a whole package)


I’ve given up on traditional iems. I don’t like the feeling of a deep iem. Most tws are very shallow so they don’t bother me but for comfort full size cans are my favorite.


----------



## TK33

clerkpalmer said:


> 25 percent off sale and M&D. MW08 excluded. Which is a bummer and kinda annoying. Don’t advertise a friends and family sale and exclude your most exciting product. Rant over.


They did the same thing last time but eventually the MW07 Plus and MW07 Go became eligible for promotional discounts.  I ended up rebuying the MW07 Go at full price in 2019 because I wanted something with good IPX right away (first one had an issue with battery).  I am not in a hurry this time around so may bite if it does become eligible for promotional.  I recall they had some pretty good discounts last year. Hoping my MW07 Go lasts a few more months.  Left earbud hasn't been connecting automatically recently and requires a few button presses to wake up, which is annoying.


----------



## cr3ativ3

soullinker20 said:


> haven't heard #3 &4. if mtw2 has the same sound mtw has then for me mtw2>az70w imho.


It’s feels like the resolution is a bit higher with the technics , but they are close to me


----------



## clerkpalmer

TK33 said:


> They did the same thing last time but eventually the MW07 Plus and MW07 Go became eligible for promotional discounts.  I ended up rebuying the MW07 Go at full price in 2019 because I wanted something with good IPX right away (first one had an issue with battery).  I am not in a hurry this time around so may bite if it does become eligible for promotional.  I recall they had some pretty good discounts last year. Hoping my MW07 Go lasts a few more months.  Left earbud hasn't been connecting automatically recently and requires a few button presses to wake up, which is annoying.


Agree. I’m not seeing any reason to spend 300 on the mw08. I have mw07 go coming for 100. Had they put the mw08 in sale I would have jumped. I think it was shortsighted of them to exclude them. Sacrifice a little margin for increased sales and buzz and we all know they cost about 2 dollars more to make than the other variants.


----------



## Luke Skywalker

So I came to the conclusion today that the KEF mu3 sounds much, much better than my Bose NC buds, which I just found under my couch after having lost them a few months ago. 

I was listening to "No You Girls" by Franz Ferdinand on the Bose and decided to switch to the KEFs so I could charge up the Bose for the gym.

Man...  The sound was so much more open and clear on the KEFs (included tips) and a much bigger soundstage. The impressive thing about this statement is that IMHO, the Bose blow away my Jabra Elite Active 65, Technics AZ70W and Sony XM3. 

The Bose and KEFs also sound signficantly better than my NUARL N6Ps but I wouldn't go so far as to say they "blow them away", just because I do love the NUARLs


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

clerkpalmer said:


> Gonna go off topic a bit but I think it’s relevant to how we review and assess tws in the grand scheme of this hobby.  What full size cans do folks have for critical listening?
> 
> ill start:  Aeon closed Drop X and LCD-2C for me. One open, one closed. Recently had Ananda, Ananda BT, deva and sundara as well. The aeon closed are stunning. The LCD-2C are bass cannons but I’m still trying to figure them out. They do not sound particularly open or spacious and I may prefer the Ananda tbh.
> 
> I only reach for my tws when I’m exercising or if I’m doing chores around the house where I need to move around although the Deva are pretty awesome for this purpose and make me wonder if I should get them again.


I have quite a few, including the LCD-2C, original Aeon Closed, HD6XX, HE-400i, and a Denon AH-D5000. I also have children and almost no ability to sit down and listen to music with both ears covered. Really wish I could enjoy them more.

The Audeze need current and lots of it, but the way they tuned their low end creates a really weird, bulbous stage where things aren't easily locateable outside of, say, the left bubble or right bubble. Eventually, I'll get my hands on a LCD-X to see if it makes up for what I'm missing. The bass texturing is fun, but I find my HE-400i to sound much more spacious. They don't image as well as the Aeon, but they're definitely more open. The Denon are just a giant leather recliner of a headphone and have a sound signature that is uncompromisingly fat.

Honestly, I reach for my 6XX more often than not. Have a 2.5mm balanced cable and a couple DAPs that'll give it enough juice to not sound so thin, so I still get to enjoy headphones, but I'm not tied to a chair. Despite the hype, it's still a HD650 and I think that deserves a place in every collection, if only to be used as a reference point. They're tuned really well.

Conversely, I'm not a huge fan of the Meze 99 Classics. Too much of a good thing (warmth), too little detail for my tastes. Super comfy, though.


jant71 said:


> https://mm.jbl.com/true-wireless/LIVE-PRO-PLUS-TWS-.html
> 
> 11mm drivers vs 6.8 in the Club Pro+ but $20 cheaper and worse specs10-20 on the range vs. 20-20 for the Live.


Saw a really good writeup from Dunu in the DK-3001 thread about driver size correlating to bass quality more than quantity. Since the DD is basically coupled to your ear, the whole "no replacement for displacement" thing kinda goes out the window. The 6.8mm in the Club Pro+ is a really capable middle.


clerkpalmer said:


> I’ve given up on traditional iems. I don’t like the feeling of a deep iem. Most tws are very shallow so they don’t bother me but for comfort full size cans are my favorite.


Seems like the IEM camp is getting equally polarizing. Dunu fit really shallow in my ears and the shells are so tiny that they don't hurt. At all. Might be worth looking into. 2001 for fun, 3001 Pro for critical listening.

As for TWS, that shallow fit is exactly what I like about the HiBy, Noble, UE, and MT. I can wear them all without fatigue and only the Noble is really an outlier in insertion depth. Really, only the Technics, Sennheiser, and Earfun tend to irritate my ears over time. While I can handle Ety deep, I don't always want to.


----------



## Canabuc

soullinker20 said:


> haven't heard #3 &4. if mtw2 has the same sound mtw has then for me mtw2>az70w imho.


Agreed


----------



## cr3ativ3

Canabuc said:


> Agreed


have you heard something what is "better" in sound , as the 1&2 ?


----------



## miserybeforethemusic (Apr 13, 2021)

cr3ativ3 said:


> have you heard something what is "better" in sound , as the 1&2 ?


Glad I'm not the only one. Can we please use better descriptors than "better" to describe what we prefer? Use cases and preferences vary so wildly.

We need some qualifiers.

I don't normally give Drop any mentions, but someone's going to find the deal in this:

https://drop.com/buy/final-audio-eva-2020-tws-iem

$235 ain't too bad.

If you don't want to wait, there's a decent deal on an Open Box here:

https://audio46.com/products/final-audio-eva-2020-true-wireless-open-box


----------



## jant71

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Saw a really good writeup from Dunu in the DK-3001 thread about driver size correlating to bass quality more than quantity. Since the DD is basically coupled to your ear, the whole "no replacement for displacement" thing kinda goes out the window. The 6.8mm in the Club Pro+ is a really capable middle.



Though across a brand esp. driver size should correlate with larger and more surface area having the extension ability. When they measure the Club to 10 and the Live to 20 is not a good sign. Couple with lower price and you start to worry about the quality. Of course the Tour Pro+ is the one we expect to have the best SQ out of the newest models anyway.


----------



## jant71

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Glad I'm not the only one. Can we please use better descriptors than "better" to describe what we prefer? Use cases and preferences vary so wildly.
> 
> We need some qualifiers.
> 
> ...


BTW, Final announced the other day that they are also on the Qualcomm Snapdragon Sound bandwagon. I'm sure most Japan brands will outside of Sony. Final, AT, Aviot, Nuarl, JVC/Kenwood.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

jant71 said:


> Though across a brand esp. driver size should correlate with larger and more surface area having the extension ability. When they measure the Club to 10 and the Live to 20 is not a good sign. Couple with lower price and you start to worry about the quality. Of course the Tour Pro+ is the one we expect to have the best SQ out of the newest models anyway.


Would you rather hear a bloated 10Hz or a clean 20? That's the reason I don't get the specs chase, especially with in-ears. So many variables. Had my fill of getting the "lowest lows" in my car audio days. Lots of ways to get there using the same driver. Fwiw, they have 3mm dynamics that'll play down to 10Hz as well, which is why I say the spec is misleading.


jant71 said:


> BTW, Final announced the other day that they are also on the Qualcomm Snapdragon Sound bandwagon. I'm sure most Japan brands will outside of Sony. Final, AT, Aviot, Nuarl, JVC/Kenwood.


Interesting. Haven't tried the EVA, but I imagine it's a solid piece of kit. Curious to see what the next release will be.


----------



## clerkpalmer

miserybeforethemusic said:


> I have quite a few, including the LCD-2C, original Aeon Closed, HD6XX, HE-400i, and a Denon AH-D5000. I also have children and almost no ability to sit down and listen to music with both ears covered. Really wish I could enjoy them more.
> 
> The Audeze need current and lots of it, but the way they tuned their low end creates a really weird, bulbous stage where things aren't easily locateable outside of, say, the left bubble or right bubble. Eventually, I'll get my hands on a LCD-X to see if it makes up for what I'm missing. The bass texturing is fun, but I find my HE-400i to sound much more spacious. They don't image as well as the Aeon, but they're definitely more open. The Denon are just a giant leather recliner of a headphone and have a sound signature that is uncompromisingly fat.
> 
> ...


Thanks for sharing.  I agree re:  Meze.  I hated them.  Warm and dark.  Returned them to Drop immediately.  I always try traditional iems and return/sell them.  Just don't like the fit and the cables (which contribute to the fit).  The dunu looks intriguing.  Do they work/fit with the BT20?


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

clerkpalmer said:


> Thanks for sharing.  I agree re:  Meze.  I hated them.  Warm and dark.  Returned them to Drop immediately.  I always try traditional iems and return/sell them.  Just don't like the fit and the cables (which contribute to the fit).  The dunu looks intriguing.  Do they work/fit with the BT20?


Yep. Just need a MMCX connection. Dunu uses a patented variation on it for their cable, but they're compatible with MMCX as well. Best cable I've used yet, though, fwiw. The quick-connect idea for plug ends is genius and this is the first cable that literally disappears on my ears. Won't have to worry about that if you're using the BT20, though. Should work with the Fiio as well.


----------



## dweaver

cr3ativ3 said:


> It’s feels like the resolution is a bit higher with the technics , but they are close to me


I owned the original MTW and find the AZ70 sound better with more detail. But it really boils down to sonic preference. The AZ70 is less warm sounding and has slightly more sub-bass with less mid-bass.


----------



## cr3ativ3

dweaver said:


> I owned the original MTW and find the AZ70 sound better with more detail. But it really boils down to sonic preference. The AZ70 is less warm sounding and has slightly more sub-bass with less mid-bass.


Of cause , all is a question about preferences in the end .


----------



## clerkpalmer

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Yep. Just need a MMCX connection. Dunu uses a patented variation on it for their cable, but they're compatible with MMCX as well. Best cable I've used yet, though, fwiw. The quick-connect idea for plug ends is genius and this is the first cable that literally disappears on my ears. Won't have to worry about that if you're using the BT20, though. Should work with the Fiio as well.


Low and behold I just found a nice BT20s with mmcx connectors in my junk drawer (forgot I bought these). Any other recommendations for synergy and a shallowish for?


----------



## miserybeforethemusic (Apr 14, 2021)

cr3ativ3 said:


> Of cause , _all is a question about preferences in the end_ .


Bingo.

Learn about what design decisions influence your preferences and you will become a _much_ smarter consumer. In my experience, the CX400BT (which reviewers claim are sonically equivalent to the MTW2) have way too much midrange energy. I don't want to believe Sennheiser carried over their classically stereotypical "veil" to their TWS, but it's highly possible that something about that EQ treatment just produces very rich and addicting vocals. Sadly falls apart in a lot of other categories Doesn't mean they're technically incorrect for having that veil; just means you should be aware of what effect it will have.

The Technics, on the other hand, have virtually no bloat from the midbass through the midrange (though you can re-inject some of it by activating ANC or HearThrough). That's why they have a little more sparkle and sense of air around all the instruments. The tradeoff is real.

Unfortunately, this hobby has a ton of subjective language that has been adopted over the years as a means of objective measure. To date, I cannot find a consensus among more than two people what they feel "good" soundstage is. Most have been misled into thinking they need to hear a speaker-like positioning on a set of in-ears. Can't defy physics, man. You can have fun with certain psychoacoustic tricks, but it's still a battle of physics.


clerkpalmer said:


> Low and behold I just found a nice BT20s with mmcx connectors in my junk drawer (forgot I bought these). Any other recommendations for synergy and a shallowish for?


For the IEM? Haven't found shallower than the DUNU DK yet. Especially with some Auvio wide-bores, they're just pillows sitting in my ears. I cannot believe they can fit 4 BAs and a DD into these shells. Barely looks like there's room for the DD as is.

Moondrop Starfield will probably have a shallow fit similar to the Kanas Pro and are potentially easier to drive. Which you decide on is going to come down to whether you want Harman _warm_ or Harman _new_ (or VDSF, according to Moondrop themselves). I tend to favor the Kanas Pro, but they have a very specific sound signature and warm sources can make them outright syrupy on some material and need a fair amount of power to really wake up the DD inside. May not be the best combo. Don't want Harman at all? Don't do Moondrop; it's their thing.

Perhaps the MEST MINI if you're willing to give bone conduction a shot? They use QDC connectors (2-pin with a bulge instead of a recess), but a little secret: they'll work just fine with standard 2-pin. Not everybody's a fan of the tuning, though. Maybe used is the way to go there. Shooting myself in the foot if I decide to get these later, but here's a really good deal on 'em:
https://shop.musicteck.com/collecti...ver-hifi-iems-like-new?variant=39321125355582

Not sure what else there could be aside from those two, but my P1 should arrive tomorrow; I imagine they'll probably end up in the "medium" depth category, relatively speaking.


----------



## clerkpalmer

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Bingo.
> 
> Learn about what design decisions influence your preferences and you will become a _much_ smarter consumer. In my experience, the CX400BT (which reviewers claim are sonically equivalent to the MTW2) have way too much midrange energy. I don't want to believe Sennheiser carried over their classically stereotypical "veil" to their TWS, but it's highly possible that something about that EQ treatment just produces very rich and addicting vocals. Sadly falls apart in a lot of other categories Doesn't mean they're technically incorrect for having that veil; just means you should be aware of what effect it will have.
> 
> ...


you and i are on the same page.  I had the KXXS paired with the BT20 before but they are not a good match due to power requirements.  Maybe the starfield is better.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

clerkpalmer said:


> you and i are on the same page.  I had the KXXS paired with the BT20 before but they are not a good match due to power requirements.  Maybe the starfield is better.


Perhaps. We can carry this conversation on in PM if you'd like; don't want to make anybody grumpy for going too OT.

Pulled out the MT today after reluctantly putting down the DK-3001 Pro. Woah, my ears need time to adjust.


----------



## bladefd

clerkpalmer said:


> 25 percent off sale and M&D. MW08 excluded. Which is a bummer and kinda annoying. Don’t advertise a friends and family sale and exclude your most exciting product. Rant over.


They are probably trying to move their older generation products and get them out to make room for their latest & best in mw08


----------



## bladefd

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Yep. Just need a MMCX connection. Dunu uses a patented variation on it for their cable, but they're compatible with MMCX as well. Best cable I've used yet, though, fwiw. The quick-connect idea for plug ends is genius and this is the first cable that literally disappears on my ears. Won't have to worry about that if you're using the BT20, though. Should work with the Fiio as well.


Do those wires work with pc if you have Bluetooth on it? I wonder if I can make my hd600 run through bt or if I'm asking for too much


----------



## clerkpalmer

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Perhaps. We can carry this conversation on in PM if you'd like; don't want to make anybody grumpy for going too OT.
> 
> Pulled out the MT today after reluctantly putting down the DK-3001 Pro. Woah, my ears need time to adjust.


I think BT20 fits well within the topic matter of this thread but in any event gonna look for a starfield and dunu in the classifieds. As always appreciate the advice.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

bladefd said:


> They are probably trying to move their older generation products and get them out to make room for their latest & best in mw08


Bummer is realizing these sales prices are probably closer to the actual cost of manufacture and you've been subsidizing the cost of their R&D (or, in lazier companies, their vacations) so far. It's a major issue I have with the way pricing is set up in the audio world. Some companies are better than others about it. Markup in analog/home theater is absolutely insane.



bladefd said:


> Do those wires work with pc if you have Bluetooth on it? I wonder if I can make my hd600 run through bt or if I'm asking for too much


Sadly, no. Nowhere near enough power. If you want mobile HD600s, get a beefy DAP. That R5 Saber is capable of 1W per channel at 32 ohms and drove the 6XX beautifully. I was honestly shocked. Drop makes a 2.5mm cable, fwiw.

I mean you could also try something like the Qudelix 5K; it might have enough power out of the balanced to make the 600 work, but these TRN adapters won't cut it. They're made for IEMs, anyway.


clerkpalmer said:


> I think BT20 fits well within the topic matter of this thread but in any event gonna look for a starfield and dunu in the classifieds. As always appreciate the advice.


There's usually a Starfield a day popping up here. Just don't buy from anybody in NJ; long story.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

Another couple MT EQ presets for people to play with. Keep in mind I've got the Final tips on.




Still pretty bass-heavy, even with Custom 3, but any further reduction has too much of an effect on the midrange. This will do for now and it's a lot cleaner than Balanced to my ears. Nice to have an EQ that doesn't add audible distortion, even when pegged.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

Huh...that's weird. Had the Right MT in, was listening to music on Qobuz for about an hour (right bud only) and the whole bud powered off/dropped signal on its own. Little guys were fully charged before I put them in, so a little confused by what happened there. Perhaps Qobuz isn't reporting that it's a listening activity to the MTs and they're shutting down on standby? Regardless, took it as a sign to switch to the next pair. Noble Falcon 1, in you go!

I really do take for granted how comfy the Nobles are, across the board. The Moulton brothers really do have an advantage having worked with CIEMs for so long; they just happen to make a universal that works so well for my ear shape. Still trying to get a feel for how the Noble Upgrade app works (the older one). It never senses when you have the latest firmware, so you can end up pushing the same firmware update to your buds ad infinitum. There are merits to this, especially if your firmware ends up corrupted somehow, but it would be nice to have some means of knowing when the latest is, in fact, the latest. Currently, I'm on 1.2.5 for each bud.

But I like how much more evenly-tuned the NF1 are, relative to the MT. They may not be as rich or enveloping, but they come across to me as a low-fatigue, multi-genre capable, comfortable, and secure pair that I wouldn't mind taking to the gym or on the stationary bike if the situation calls for it. Not a whole lot of fuss, but also not a whole lot of price (anymore) for good aptX sound.

Still don't regret getting these on a whim. Still recommend them over the Earfun Free Pro, but understand that's based on my personal preference.


----------



## Canabuc

cr3ativ3 said:


> have you heard something what is "better" in sound , as the 1&2 ?


I like Mids alot on the Technics but find the low end meh.  Soundstage better on sennheiser as is overall sound to me.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

Canabuc said:


> I like Mids alot on the Technics but find the low end meh.  Soundstage better on sennheiser as is overall sound to me.


Psychoacoustics are so cool.

It's pretty impressive how much Sennheiser had to notch out of their sound signature to get that warmth without crushing all of the spatial cues. It's very 90s Bose-like...back before they started doing the whole lifestyle speaker thing. What I have a problem with is how that sort of sound signature is handled as volume goes up; trying to overcome the effects of equal-loudness contours. These TWS would be absolutely beautiful for some software management of it (kinda like an auto-gain for your volume that compensates based on the F-M curves). Haven't seen anybody mention that this is the route they're taking yet, but I'd market the hell out of it if I was. Geeks like me would go nuts over it.

Technics, on the other hand, just kinda does it the old school way and goes for a very W-shaped signature, minus the bottom-most peak. Also very 90s-like, but now you're looking at your, well, Technics gear. It had authority and strength, but you knew there were better options out there if you wanted a blanket of bass.

But the real trick is compensating for HRTF with in-ears since you're bypassing certain key parts of the ear that help make things sound as spacious as they do. Good tuners will know which upper-midrange and treble frequencies to excite in order to compensate for this. This is also why "flat" IEMs will most likely sound awful to your ears, because those excitation frequencies are being left completely untouched. What makes for a flat room speaker makes a terrible IEM. Was one of the hardest things for me to wrap my head around since I spend almost an equal amount of time in each hobby.

Not sure if everybody's familiar with this article, but knowing how to interpret a FR plot can save you from making some really bad purchasing decisions and avoid getting caught up in whatever flavor's popular this month. Also helps put a spotlight on how vague some of the terminology has gotten at this point. Absolute kudos to Crinacle for the time he spent putting content like this together.

Your listening notes are spot on for each pair, @Canabuc . Couldn't agree more in both cases.


----------



## jant71

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Would you rather hear a bloated 10Hz or a clean 20? That's the reason I don't get the specs chase, especially with in-ears. So many variables. Had my fill of getting the "lowest lows" in my car audio days. Lots of ways to get there using the same driver. Fwiw, they have 3mm dynamics that'll play down to 10Hz as well, which is why I say the spec is misleading.
> 
> Interesting. Haven't tried the EVA, but I imagine it's a solid piece of kit. Curious to see what the next release will be.


well 10 and 20 says nothing about the quality but BT already cuts the ends of the range off so 20 vs 10 is certainly something one can notice and not be too happy about. Depends on how much roll off bothers a person.  Of course the only quality indication would be that they are cheaper and that JBL isn't the kind to make these better sounding and cheaper especially since they are all part of the "+" series and the Club Pro + are seemingly gonna keep on going and with the $20 higher price. I think something is there to be said about the 6.8mm driver being in both the $199 models but not in anything even a little cheaper. Probably is the better quality driver. 

Still don't have aptX or LL or adaptive etc. and not gonna be LE compatible so not sure these new models will be that much in demand anyhow. Here where we are in the know it is ~6 months away from stuff that will be new tech capable.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

jant71 said:


> well 10 and 20 says nothing about the quality but BT already cuts the ends of the range off so 20 vs 10 is certainly something one can notice and not be too happy about. Depends on how much roll off bothers a person.  Of course the only quality indication would be that they are cheaper and that JBL isn't the kind to make these better sounding and cheaper especially since they are all part of the "+" series and the Club Pro + are seemingly gonna keep on going and with the $20 higher price. I think something is there to be said about the 6.8mm driver being in both the $199 models but not in anything even a little cheaper. Probably is the better quality driver.
> 
> Still don't have aptX or LL or adaptive etc. and not gonna be LE compatible so not sure these new models will be that much in demand anyhow. Here where we are in the know it is ~6 months away from stuff that will be new tech capable.


Forgot about the BT limitation on the low-end. Good call. JBL's so weird with how they structure their line, but I agree that they'll probably stick to those principles. They could also do the usual JBL/Harman thing and go completely off the rails, obscuring where any of the good products are within a range. We'll have to wait and see.

aptX is also a really bizarre omission from the Club Pro+ given its price, recent release, and decent app development. Would have thought they'd be able to swing aptX without a problem, too. At least what I get sounds pretty great.

Sounds like a little more stagnation for now. I'm sure everybody's wallet is probably happy for that. For now.

Speaking of, where _are_ my Edifier and Status?


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

Something like this won't sound good at all with too much bloom. It'll overdrive half the track. Perfect track for the Technics, though.


----------



## chinmie

miserybeforethemusic said:


> I cannot find a consensus among more than two people what they feel "good" soundstage is



i think it's similarly subjective as where to sit/stand in a live concert would be: some prefer standing right in front of the stage, some prefer a bit far back, or some prefer just sitting in the drum seat   

to me, there's no ultimate best. it all depends on my mood and the material at the time of listening

it is possible to mimic speaker-like positioning on headphones/in ears with crossfeed and (better yet) software manipulation, but still, to me it just to add options, not the ultimate and only goal


----------



## miserybeforethemusic (Apr 13, 2021)

chinmie said:


> i think it's similarly subjective as where to sit/stand in a live concert would be: some prefer standing right in front of the stage, some prefer a bit far back, or some prefer just sitting in the drum seat
> 
> it is possible to mimic speaker-like positioning on headphones/in ears with crossfeed and (better yet) software manipulation, but still, to me it just to add options, not the ultimate and only goal


Funnily enough, I still have one of the HeadRoom amps with a hardware crossfeed. The 788 will do it via DIRAC. Not that helpful for a lot of modern stuff, but it works wonders on mono source material that was lazily hard-panned to stereo. Here's a page from the Total Airhead manual:

It's a subtle effect and really tastefully done. Unfortunately, this technique would be impossible to do at a hardware level and I haven't heard many software implementations that work this well.

Think I've mentioned it before, but if I want the best sound, I try to hang out right at the sound booth since that's probably where the venue was tuned. There's exceptions, of course, but it usually works out exceptionally well in my experience.


> to me, there's no ultimate best. it all depends on my mood and the material at the time of listening


The more equipment I listen to, the more I realize exactly that. Yes, I just outed myself as one of _those guys_; calling myself an engineer should have been a dead giveaway. I listen to my gear. And it's a heck of a lot of fun. Have gotten lucky in finding out what I like as a result and it turns out, like you said, there's no ultimate something that has everything you want all the time.

Just got done with a marathon of that playlist on the Technics. Whole first half was okay, nothing exceptional, but then the live, acoustic, and classical started coming in and that was the wow moment. It made a lot more sense why they're tuned the way they are. That same lack of bass weight allows for a ton of subtle midrange detail to come through that would have otherwise been missed. I've probably listened to most of those songs about 50 times over...and yet they're presented so differently on those TWS.


----------



## soullinker20

technics az70w was a really nice tws and wowed me. i didn't mean to say the mtw/2 was better over it but what i would only prefer if i had to choose one. anyways i don't have them now as I've sold them and the new owner was very happy on the sound and ANC.
i am pretty much settled with my gemini and ue fits for now.


----------



## Canabuc

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Psychoacoustics are so cool.
> 
> It's pretty impressive how much Sennheiser had to notch out of their sound signature to get that warmth without crushing all of the spatial cues. It's very 90s Bose-like...back before they started doing the whole lifestyle speaker thing. What I have a problem with is how that sort of sound signature is handled as volume goes up; trying to overcome the effects of equal-loudness contours. These TWS would be absolutely beautiful for some software management of it (kinda like an auto-gain for your volume that compensates based on the F-M curves). Haven't seen anybody mention that this is the route they're taking yet, but I'd market the hell out of it if I was. Geeks like me would go nuts over it.
> 
> ...



All the talk about iems here makes me want to dabble.  Don't want to invest much.  Had so had some nice Shures which I broke. 
Thinking of getting the following: 

Sound magic A30 USB C Dac Amp to attach to my phone
And Blon Bl03.


Good entry level choices or would you recommend something else?


----------



## Canabuc

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Something like this won't sound good at all with too much bloom. It'll overdrive half the track. Perfect track for the Technics, though.



Listened on the Fiil and sounds very nice.  Somehow spacious yet intimate.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

Canabuc said:


> All the talk about iems here makes me want to dabble.  Don't want to invest much.  Had so had some nice Shures which I broke.
> Thinking of getting the following:
> 
> Sound magic A30 USB C Dac Amp to attach to my phone
> ...


The A30 should do a pretty good job, but I've heard mixed things about fit with the Bl03. You can shoot me a PM and we can see if I can't help you figure out the right choice for your budget and preferences.


Canabuc said:


> Listened on the Fiil and sounds very nice.  Somehow spacious yet intimate.


Based on what I can hear, he's playing at a bar. What was awesome with the Technics was that you could hear individual people in the crowd and make out everything they were saying, yet there were these midrange-rich passages with the guitar that were so warm...hearing a contrast like that in the same headphone was pretty awesome. Really good rendition of the original track, too. Almost can't hear the original anymore.


----------



## Canabuc

miserybeforethemusic said:


> The A30 should do a pretty good job, but I've heard mixed things about fit with the Bl03. You can shoot me a PM and we can see if I can't help you figure out the right choice for your budget and preferences.
> 
> Based on what I can hear, he's playing at a bar. What was awesome with the Technics was that you could hear individual people in the crowd and make out everything they were saying, yet there were these midrange-rich passages with the guitar that were so warm...hearing a contrast like that in the same headphone was pretty awesome. Really good rendition of the original track, too. Almost can't hear the original anymore.


I'm telling you you would love the Fiil. They have the bass that can get as dynamic as the JBL without coding the mids like the MTW2 do. All the while the Soundstage is wide the Treble is very realistic.  By that I mean it isn't ruled of and can be harsh if that is how the track called for it.  
I can't believe how good these sound at the piece.  I prefer them over every earbud except jbl 
where they match up pretty good and fit so much better. 

There is a CC pro out now that takes up the feature set a notch that are very tempting.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

Canabuc said:


> I'm telling you you would love the Fiil. They have the bass that can get as dynamic as the JBL without coding the mids like the MTW2 do. All the while the Soundstage is wide the Treble is very realistic.  By that I mean it isn't ruled of and can be harsh if that is how the track called for it.
> I can't believe how good these sound at the piece.  I prefer them over every earbud except jbl
> where they match up pretty good and fit so much better.
> 
> There is a CC pro out now that takes up the feature set a notch that are very tempting.


It sounds like you're a prime candidate for something that sticks to the Harman Target with a slightly warm tilt, then. I would suggest looking for single-DD IEMs, but understand there's a trade-off in that some DDs will need a good amount of power to keep them from getting too tinny in the upper midrange, which would mean you'd want to consider upping your power.

Think on a budget and PM me. I don't sell anything; just want to keep that sort of off-topic kind of discussion out of the thread.


----------



## Peddler

I've just got the Soundpeats T2 ANC buds - early impressions are very favourable - they produce a surprisingly good sound for such an inexpensive pair of headphones.  More detailed review to follow soon.


----------



## LordToneeus

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Something like this won't sound good at all with too much bloom. It'll overdrive half the track. Perfect track for the Technics, though.



OT funny story, but Travis Meeks was arrested and in custody in my small southern Indiana courtroom a few years back. It was wild. I think I was the only one who recognized him. He had an outstanding warrant from another state for unpaid child support. He told the judge, “I was tricked by an escort who thought I made a lot of money.“


----------



## clerkpalmer

For anyone with the mw08 how is the fit? Does the lack of wings make them unstable?

comparing the mw07 go to the ue fits is simply boys against men. The mw07 just destroy the fits in sound quality. But I am having an awful time getting the mw07 to stay put. The fin just slips out of my ear and the tips are so rigid they pop out as well. Gonna try some spinfits but the fins seem to make them worse not better. I may take a gamble on the mw08 if they fit well.


----------



## potix

Canabuc said:


> Freebuds sound very natural except a but warm as Treble is not as bright bit with some eqing it gets better.


I was reading some tests about az70 and freebuds pro on connect.de, same media publishing of stereoplay, my favourite and (in my opinion) reliable magazine when it comes to tests. The site doesn't seem well organized but the two tws got similar audio quality grade, so I ended up giving a shot to huawei since I have a huawei phone that support lhdc codec and I am curious about it. Their price on amazon wharehouse was too much tempting.
Do you think that the mesh on the tips can impact the treble and the overall sound?


----------



## jant71 (Apr 14, 2021)

Soundpeats Gamer No.1...



60ms dual driver with AAC and SBC for under $50. RGB colors for the case. Interesting to see if this will be regional or end up in NA etc.


----------



## Canabuc

potix said:


> I was reading some tests about az70 and freebuds pro on connect.de, same media publishing of stereoplay, my favourite and (in my opinion) reliable magazine when it comes to tests. The site doesn't seem well organized but the two tws got similar audio quality grade, so I ended up giving a shot to huawei since I have a huawei phone that support lhdc codec and I am curious about it. Their price on amazon wharehouse was too much tempting.
> Do you think that the mesh on the tips can impact the treble and the overall sound?


I had good fit with stock tips. My main issue sound wise is Treble is a bit rolled off but fixable with my phones eq.
Nice balanced sound.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

jant71 said:


> Soundpeats Gamer No.1...
> 
> 60ms dual driver with AAC and SBC for under $50. RGB colors for the case. Interesting to see if this will be regional or end up in NA etc.


They must think they're going to make a killing off the gamer market, not realizing these are going to disappear in the sea of budget stuff on Amazon. Cute concept, but really confused why they think this will boost sales. Looks so cheap.


----------



## johnston21 (Apr 14, 2021)

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Still trying to get a feel for how the Noble Upgrade app works (the older one). It never senses when you have the latest firmware, so you can end up pushing the same firmware update to your buds ad infinitum.



For the original Falcons, you only need to use the Upgrade App going from v1 to v2 firmware. After that, the Sound Suite app is used for future upgrades.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

Think your comment got lost there, @johnston21


----------



## johnston21

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Think your comment got lost there, @johnston21


Fixed.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

johnston21 said:


> For the original Falcons, you only need to use the Upgrade App going from v1 to v2 firmware. After that, the Sound Suite app is used for future upgrades.


Makes more sense. Wasn't sure if the second app had its code updated to support. Thanks!


----------



## pashustik

Can you tell me if Galaxy Buds are suitable for classical music? What do you think about Harman Curve compatibility with classical music


----------



## tinyman392

pashustik said:


> Can you tell me if Galaxy Buds are suitable for classical music? What do you think about Harman Curve compatibility with classical music


The Harman curve is essentially a bass boosted DF curve with a little less pinna gain.  It can definitely work for classical music, though the bass boost for IEMs is a bit much for my liking.  Harman for IEMs ask for a 10 dB bump while their full-sized headphone target has a 7-ish dB bump.


----------



## potix

pashustik said:


> Can you tell me if Galaxy Buds are suitable for classical music? What do you think about Harman Curve compatibility with classical music


I'll give you my 2cent. I think that no tws at the present time is able to reproduce classical music in a perfect or satisfying way, so try those most appreciated here, and judge by yourself. I guess Sennheiser could be the best bet.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

potix said:


> I'll give you my 2cent. I think that no tws at the present time is able to reproduce classical music in a perfect or satisfying way, so try those most appreciated here, and judge by yourself. I guess Sennheiser could be the best bet.


Really? I thought the AZ70W did a phenomenal job with classical. The UE can as well, but it's a much more laid back presentation. If you want that presence bite, especially with brass instruments, the Technics will really pull that out. If you want to be able to hear the biggest timpani roll, though, I agree with you that there are very few TWS that will do _that _accurately. I know it seems I've been harping on the Technics train lately, but it's only because I'm trying to put them through their paces.

Will they be as resolving and technically correct as a pair of amped, wired in-ears? No. If that's the bar for entry, then no TWS will meet it.


----------



## pashustik

Thank you, maybe off-topic what you think of AKG 361 in conjunction with a smartphone for classical music.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic (Apr 14, 2021)

pashustik said:


> Thank you, maybe off-topic what you think of AKG 361 in conjunction with a smartphone for classical music.


I have zero experience with AKG's new stuff. Have heard it's all tuned relatively close to the Harman Target, so I'd expect a relatively neutral presentation with a slight bass lift. Unfortunately, that gives absolutely zero insight to its technical ability, but at least they shouldn't be bass cannons. metal571 has a pretty decent breakdown of it (cliff notes: he prefers the 371 for reasons that sound like they'd lend themselves well to classical music), but I know he usually listens to harder music.

When you say smartphone+classical, I instantly start thinking of efficient 1-BA wideband IEMs, but it sounds like you're looking for a pair of fairly efficient over-ears that aren't priced in the stratosphere. If you want, we can try to narrow down some options via PM.


----------



## Rizorith

A couple people here had their eq settings for the jabra elite active 75t. I searched and can't locate it anymore - are there any suggestions on how to set these up? I like the features but the sound is pretty so so.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

Rizorith said:


> A couple people here had their eq settings for the jabra elite active 75t. I searched and can't locate it anymore - are there any suggestions on how to set these up? I like the features but the sound is pretty so so.


Can't point you to specific frequencies to cut, but the general guideline is to attack all that energy in the midbass/lower midrange. That'll bring out more of the midrange detail without hopefully losing all of the sub-bass extension.

From there, it's a matter of re-shaping the midrange spikes to be more compatible with your ear shape; can probably start at 2kHz, 4KHz, and 8KHz (one at a time) and just drop them by a dB at a time. Demo plenty of material in between adjustments and don't rush it. In the end, what you come up with will be better for your ears than anything people here can recommend. Unfortunately, the EQ in the Jabra app is lacking, so you would need a third-party solution.

Alternatively, Wavelet has an AutoEQ profile for it or you can just enter it manually using _these values_. I strongly encourage you only use that as a starting point, though.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

And if you really want to get down and dirty with EQ, here's a master sheet. Might take you a while to figure out how to use it, but it's basically all the answers to the test on a 3x5 card:


----------



## potix

miserybeforethemusic said:


> I know it seems I've been harping on the Technics train lately, but it's only because I'm trying to put them through their paces.


Or maybe because you're an old fart like me . I've been experimenting a bit in the last days with az70s and I'm getting to the conclusion that they sometimes sound not right in bass to my ears because I cannot obtain a perfect seal on both my ears (a bit different in each ear canal) with stock tips. As you said they don't have to be pushed hard inside, but there is always one of them that let some air through (I am very sensitive unfortunately). So I'm trying to fill tips with sponge instead of foam, that was too dense and unbearable after few minutes. I'm almost there. I'm also waiting for azla short light from japan.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic (Apr 14, 2021)

potix said:


> Or maybe because you're an old fart like me . I've been experimenting a bit in the last days with az70s and I'm getting to the conclusion that they sometimes sound not right in bass to my ears because I cannot obtain a perfect seal on both my ears (a bit different in each ear canal) with stock tips. As you said they don't have to be pushed hard inside, but there is always one of them that let some air through (I am very sensitive unfortunately). So I'm trying to fill tips with sponge instead of foam, that was too dense and unbearable after few minutes. I'm almost there. I'm also waiting for azla short light from japan.


I'm only old on the inside. Over a decade in uniform ages you pretty quickly. 35 going on 60.

The AZLA might come in handy. I've noticed the Technics' biggest problem with fit for some people are going to be those bulbous casings. It's almost like you need to treat them like they have a wing when they really don't. If you're familiar with insertion/removal of th CX400BT, it's a similar strategy. Both pairs seem to have a major problem with insertion past the ear opening, so I guess it's on us to find whatever tip size/style that keeps the AZ70's buds locked against the antihelix, but without collapsing the shroud on the eartips themselves.

The instructions make a point of instructing you to make sure the Technics logo is reading in a straight line before you insert them and I think that's the way to go. There seems to be a pretty big correlation to how these things are rotated vs how they sound. Too much rotation and I end up losing almost all of my treble. Too little and they'll fall right out. Seem to have the most success on stock Large tips with about 1/2" of rotation.

Final note is this: bass quantity is absolutely not a strength of th AZ70W. Texture/quality is. No other way to hack it, but I'm coming to the conclusion that it's a conscious choice and not some sort of design limitation. Listening to some of my acoustic tracks, turning on ANC/HearThrough injects too much back into the midbass which completely throws off the timbre of guitars for me, almost like they're being over-saturated. To use a musician's analogy, it'd be like running your guitar through a tubed stack, then switching over to a portable cab combo. My ears don't adjust to it well. Yes, certain genres can benefit from the adjustment. I'm just not a fan.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

Got an email from Status this morning stating that they're getting their next 10k units over the next two weeks. They'll ship out in 2k batches. If you order after today, you aren't projected to receive until June. Otherwise, sounds like everybody else will be taken care of. Keeping my fingers crossed I actually get them this month.

Sadly, I think the Edifier are lost forever. No movement since March 20th. Win some, lose some. Only 50 more days until I can make a claim...


----------



## potix

miserybeforethemusic said:


> The instructions make a point of instructing you to make sure the Technics logo is reading in a straight line before you insert them and I think that's the way to go. There seems to be a pretty big correlation to how these things are rotated vs how they sound. Too much rotation and I end up losing almost all of my treble. Too little and they'll fall right out. Seem to have the most success on stock Large tips with about 1/2" of rotation.
> 
> Final note is this: bass quantity is absolutely not a strength of th AZ70W. Texture/quality is. No other way to hack it, but I'm coming to the conclusion that it's a conscious choice and not some sort of design limitation. Listening to some of my acoustic tracks, turning on ANC/HearThrough injects too much back into the midbass which completely throws off the timbre of guitars for me, almost like they're being over-sarurated. To use a musician's analogy, it'd be like running your guitar through a tubed stack, then switching over to a portable cab combo. My ears don't adjust to it well. Yes, certain genres can benefit from the adjustment. I'm just not a fan.


You're absolutely right, I always refer to bass but I mean mid-bass to low-mids, my fault. This range can be hacked a bit playing with eartips hacks and make pop/rock (and even acoustic for voices) a bit more pleasant to me. These genres are what I listen to mostly when I'm out for work. But of course it always depends on how our brains react to this. Honestly classical is not my way, and when I listen to soundtracks with these I prefer silence


----------



## erockg

Devialet is taking preorders for Gemini round 2.  Ships 5/17.  

New Echo Buds on the way too.  Smaller.  Oddly enough, ships 5/13.


----------



## Rollk2

Hi! I want to try the JBL Club Pro+ to compare them to my Galaxy Buds Pro especially because they do not fit really well and it seems the JBL are one of the best option against the Samsung. Is that still the case?
I had the AKG N400, but sound was not really exciting, the Sennheiser MTW2 but bass was too slow and highs like soundstage were not extended. The Grado GT220 is a shame for the price, I kept them 3 days for comparison. Now I'm still with my Galaxy Buds Pro and I still have this fit issue. What would be your advice regarding the best option out there?


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

Rollk2 said:


> Hi! I want to try the JBL Club Pro+ to compare them to my Galaxy Buds Pro especially because they do not fit really well and it seems the JBL are one of the best option against the Samsung. Is that still the case?
> I had the AKG N400, but sound was not really exciting, the Sennheiser MTW2 but bass was too slow and highs like soundstage were not extended. The Grado GT220 is a shame for the price, I kept them 3 days for comparison. Now I'm still with my Galaxy Buds Pro and I still have this fit issue. What would be your advice regarding the best option out there?


Best option for what? Need more qualifiers. Relative to what you have, I don't think they're going to be all that different, honestly. The JBL doesn't have the sort of in-your-face sound your listening notes would suggest.

Because fit is the issue, I'd usually suggest the FITS, but those will be more relaxed than the KEF probably already are.

Can you elaborate on what kind of sound and technicalities you're looking for?


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

Made a Tidal version of the playlist:

https://tidal.com/playlist/78247f26-f498-4846-bdca-997b703889d7

I should have clarified that, while the first half is almost all electronic, the second half picks up with a couple different blends of Hip-Hop (start at DJ Format), followed by rock (Citizen King) and classical (David Zindman). If EDM isn't your thing, I've tried to make sure you don't feel left out.


----------



## Rollk2

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Best option for what? Need more qualifiers. Relative to what you have, I don't think they're going to be all that different, honestly. The JBL doesn't have the sort of in-your-face sound your listening notes would suggest.
> 
> Because fit is the issue, I'd usually suggest the FITS, but those will be more relaxed than the KEF probably already are.
> 
> Can you elaborate on what kind of sound and technicalities you're looking for?


Sure, sorry about that. I don't want a V shaped sound signature and I'm more looking for neutral bass boosted FR. I've no problem with high mids emphasis, but I like my mid bass and a bit of rumble. Actually, Galaxy Buds Pro sound signature is perfect, but the fit is at the beginning of the ear and I dislike that. I'm more an Ety guy and I like deep fit. It seems the JBL Club Pro+ go deeper. 
I'm really impressed by how the Buds Pro can perform and I want to keep that level of technicality: big stage, extension in both high and low frequencies, transparency. I was really disappointed by the Grado GT220 for exemple. The UE Fits seem to be bad, except the fit. 

Here are my expectations:
- Sound 
- Battery life (more than 6 hours)
- Deep fit (the GBP are exceptionally bad for that, my expectations are not so high)
- BT connectivity: both IEM must be connected, not like Cambridge Audio Melomania or Grado GT220

Thank you for your help


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

Well on the plus end, the JBL are considerably lighter than most of my TWS and that helps in their comfort. I do not need to insert them deeply for a secure seal, but they're also not just hanging out at the opening. From one Ety listener to another, nothing is going to get you an Ety seal in TWS. Get used to a shallower seal unless you're willing to tip-roll.

The problem I think some people will have is in the Club Pro+ resting on the intertragal notch (area between your tragus and antitragus, or the "picture hook" of your ear). If that gap gets stretched too much by the shell, that'll cause early fatigue. If that notch is too wide, they'll flop all over the place. Have to hope you're somewhere in the middle. If you are, it's perma-comfort. Great shell design, but only for the right ears.

Staging is adequate, but not up with the best out there. I blame the tuning because most single-DD tune-by-Harman sets I own blob it up, too. The Kanas Pro are a slight deviation from that, but they need a ton of power before they wake up enough to reveal that quality.

Isolation is also a mixed bag and, unless the capability gets a lot better, I don't think ANC will be enough for you here. Because the shells are so light, they also don't have much passive isolation until you get the music to start playing and, well, people here have already mentioned them needing more gain. A +4dB boosted flat EQ does the trick for me.

If you are dead-set against a V, I'd count out the Noble Falcon Pro, but it might have most of the qualities you're looking for otherwise. Not cheap, I'm afraid. The Status Between Pro might be somewhere in the ballpark, but I'm not going to rec them until I personally put them through their paces.

The FITS aren't bad. They're a listener- and comfort-focused semi-custom fit TWS with an adequate mic for calls and touch buttons they still need to work out. I consider it a good product, but one in which there's still a lot of wrinkles to iron out.


----------



## Rollk2

Thank you for that clear answer. I had considered the Falcon Pro, the V shaped sound signature can be an issue... or not if the stage is close enough. I also will wait a bit to see if Sony release something interesting.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

Rollk2 said:


> Thank you for that clear answer. I had considered the Falcon Pro, the V shaped sound signature can be an issue... or not if the stage is close enough. I also will wait a bit to see if Sony release something interesting.


@erockg can expand on his own experiences since he has dabbled with EQ on them more than I have, but I enjoy the tuning right out of the box fwiw.

Noble's in-app EQ is a graphic, but they give you 10 bands which is hopefully enough for any upper midrange concerns. I do find it annoying that changes aren't applied until after you release the slider, so it's not a gradual effect.

Mids are definitely not distant to my ears, nor are they in your face. If the material is recorded to be shouty, though, it will feel shouty. You can curb this by dropping 8k by a few dB without completely collapsing the stage or taking life out of the vocals, though. Can also just turn the volume down as this only becomes an issue past 50%. They don't seem to be shy in upper midrange energy if the mastering requires it. None of this is required at lower listening volumes; it's just a byproduct of what V-shaped signatures do as you move up the loudness curve. Have to compensate for that extra energy somehow.

There's enough treble detail to make out variations on cymbal strikes without much effort. On Cornell's _Songbook_ rendition of "Black Hole Sun," you can make out his lips smacking before certain lines of the song. I personally find the Technics to be a more live-friendly pair as they seem to scale staging with the venue really well.


----------



## Luke Skywalker

potix said:


> I'll give you my 2cent. I think that no tws at the present time is able to reproduce classical music in a perfect or satisfying way, so try those most appreciated here, and judge by yourself. I guess Sennheiser could be the best bet.


I actually love listening to Qobuz classical on my Kef mu3s. It sounds amazing


----------



## Luke Skywalker

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Made a Tidal version of the playlist:
> 
> https://tidal.com/playlist/78247f26-f498-4846-bdca-997b703889d7
> 
> I should have clarified that, while the first half is almost all electronic, the second half picks up with a couple different blends of Hip-Hop (start at DJ Format), followed by rock (Citizen King) and classical (David Zindman). If EDM isn't your thing, I've tried to make sure you don't feel left out.


Can’t wait to check your playlist! I wouldn’t mind a thread just for sharing Tidal playlists 

My guitar music: https://tidal.com/playlist/cc6df6a8-a907-45a8-9307-325d5e893c82


----------



## erockg

miserybeforethemusic said:


> @erockg can expand on his own experiences since he has dabbled with EQ on them more than I have, but I enjoy the tuning right out of the box fwiw.
> 
> Noble's in-app EQ is a graphic, but they give you 10 bands which is hopefully enough for any upper midrange concerns. I do find it annoying that changes aren't applied until after you release the slider, so it's not a gradual effect.
> 
> ...


I love the EQ. I’m able to give the bass a nice punch.  Same with me, I was listening to something last night and I kept hearing the singers lips snack and a breath.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

Luke Skywalker said:


> Can’t wait to check your playlist! I wouldn’t mind a thread just for sharing Tidal playlists
> 
> My guitar music: https://tidal.com/playlist/cc6df6a8-a907-45a8-9307-325d5e893c82


Good thinking, but I don't want to overdo it with the amount of threads I try to pay attention to and music threads take literal months out of my life. Been there. I'll add your playlist, though!

For now, I've got a slightly different delivery to mess around with...

Time to see what all the fuss is about and that means I have to start in my least favorite way possible. Straight outta the 3.5mm plug.

Based on feel, though, these might make an absolute banger of a combo with the UMTWS3/BT20S Pro, assuming they have enough power to lift them up over excitation. Nice, tiny buds need a nice, tiny BT dongle to go with 'em. Each side must have 5W of Class A RMS power and a 12-hour battery life. Weight? Under 10g.

Well it would certainly be a more attractive combo than the inevitable portable stack I'm going to have to make with the E12a...all jokes aside, I am curious to see if someone's been able to give them enough juice over BT because they'd be perfectly-sized for it.


erockg said:


> I love the EQ. I’m able to give the bass a nice punch.  Same with me, I was listening to something last night and I kept hearing the singers lips snack and a breath.


A mastering engineer somewhere just threw his beer against the wall for wasting an entire week trying to EQ those out.


----------



## erockg

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Good thinking, but I don't want to overdo it with the amount of threads I try to pay attention to and music threads take literal months out of my life. Been there. I'll add your playlist, though!
> 
> For now, I've got a slightly different delivery to mess around with...
> 
> ...


Once upon a time, I went to school to be one of of those guys.  Good thing I didn't pursue it!


----------



## jhwalker

Luke Skywalker said:


> I actually love listening to Qobuz classical on my Kef mu3s. It sounds amazing


Same on the Devialet Geminis - amazing sound with just about any genre.


----------



## dweaver

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Got an email from Status this morning stating that they're getting their next 10k units over the next two weeks. They'll ship out in 2k batches. If you order after today, you aren't projected to receive until June. Otherwise, sounds like everybody else will be taken care of. Keeping my fingers crossed I actually get them this month.
> 
> Sadly, I think the Edifier are lost forever. No movement since March 20th. Win some, lose some. Only 50 more days until I can make a claim...


I ended up jumping back on the Status Between Pro wagon so looking forward to trying these. Between the positive reviews and CocaCola's experience I think they are going to be great. Ended up paying a bit more than the $79 deal they originally offered but at $99 I think they are still a good deal especially if they have as good audio as reported. I already own 2 ANC models so am fine with just focusing on audio quality on this pair.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

dweaver said:


> I ended up jumping back on the Status Between Pro wagon so looking forward to trying these. Between the positive reviews and CocaCola's experience I think they are going to be great. Ended up paying a bit more than the $79 deal they originally offered but at $99 I think they are still a good deal especially if they have as good audio as reported. I already own 2 ANC models so am fine with just focusing on audio quality on this pair.


Are they done with the Early Bird pricing? Surprised it was being offered as long as it did.

Congrats on ordering the Status! Considering what HiBy charges for the WH3 (though it is currently marked down), I'd say $99 for a 3-driver arrangement is still a job well done.


----------



## dweaver

Totally agree . I ordered them a while back because I was afraid the $99 price would disappear. According to that latest update mine should be in the next week or 2. I am fine with the delay as I enjoy my AZ70 and WF-1000XM3.


----------



## tiagopinto

Luke Skywalker said:


> I actually love listening to Qobuz classical on my Kef mu3s. It sounds amazing



From what has been written lately, I’d really like to try these KEF’s, the Falcon Pro’s and the MW08. Just wish I had more wiggle room in my wallet and, since I’ve been reading about LE Audio and LC3 (I just hope Apple will have this available on an iPhone...), I honestly do not want to invest much now on what’s soon gonna be really different. Anyway, it’ll take some time...

Do you guys have any take on how long this will take to materialize and then eventually become a standard?



Luke Skywalker said:


> Can’t wait to check your playlist! I wouldn’t mind a thread just for sharing Tidal playlists
> 
> My guitar music: https://tidal.com/playlist/cc6df6a8-a907-45a8-9307-325d5e893c82



I’m a firm defender of keeping info condensed in one place and not dispersed. A “general” thread like this, about ALL the TWS makes very much sense to me, because comparison is paramount. I’ve thrown in the occasional playlist and really like when other people do that too or even mention what they’ve been listening to. Very interesting. 
I understand and sometimes like to compartmentalize some issues but this is evolving so fast that I’d hate to loose one bit. I’m glad I followed this thread early and read through more than twenty one hundred pages of information you guys keep sharing. Some people have even been accused of doing too much but that’s very far from my view. It’s been VERY useful info (thank you) and EVERYONE is encouraged to chime in (please do). I try to do my humble bit. Cheers!


----------



## rhsauer

clerkpalmer said:


> For anyone with the mw08 how is the fit? Does the lack of wings make them unstable?
> 
> comparing the mw07 go to the ue fits is simply boys against men. The mw07 just destroy the fits in sound quality. But I am having an awful time getting the mw07 to stay put. The fin just slips out of my ear and the tips are so rigid they pop out as well. Gonna try some spinfits but the fins seem to make them worse not better. I may take a gamble on the mw08 if they fit well.


The MW08 fit differently than prior generations -- you really need to try them (ideally for an extended period of time) to see how well they fit you.  For me, they're very stable.


----------



## zeinharis

Does anyone have this update installed?


----------



## potix

Recent review and measurements of Kef Mu3

https://www.soundstagesolo.com/index.php/equipment/earphones/283-kef-mu3-true-wireless-earphones
https://www.soundstagenetwork.com/i...-true-wireless-earphones&catid=263&Itemid=203


----------



## Canabuc

Jbl will be more comfortable but ymmv as to how they fit.  For me with stock tips they still didn't have perfect seal and angle vigorous head shaking they would fall out. 

For secure fit the MT,Fiil T1 pro both have rubber wing or fin to help keep them in place and are more comfortable


----------



## tiagopinto

potix said:


> Recent review and measurements of Kef Mu3
> 
> https://www.soundstagesolo.com/index.php/equipment/earphones/283-kef-mu3-true-wireless-earphones
> https://www.soundstagenetwork.com/i...-true-wireless-earphones&catid=263&Itemid=203



Yes, very tempting, for sure. But I just shouldn’t gamble with the pandemics’ uncertainty right now. Thanks.


----------



## gdv brisbane

erockg said:


> Devialet is taking preorders for Gemini round 2.  Ships 5/17.
> 
> New Echo Buds on the way too.  Smaller.  Oddly enough, ships 5/13.


Looks like a complete reboot for the Echo Buds. DD rather than BA and they've dropped the Bose ANR for "their own" ANC.
https://www.amazon.com/All-new-Echo...ld=1&keywords=echo+buds&qid=1618493876&sr=8-1


----------



## Luke Skywalker

tiagopinto said:


> From what has been written lately, I’d really like to try these KEF’s, the Falcon Pro’s and the MW08. Just wish I had more wiggle room in my wallet and, since I’ve been reading about LE Audio and LC3 (I just hope Apple will have this available on an iPhone...), I honestly do not want to invest much now on what’s soon gonna be really different. Anyway, it’ll take some time...
> 
> Do you guys have any take on how long this will take to materialize and then eventually become a standard?
> 
> ...


Yep, and in the end, the hobby is about finding music that you live listening to. I just discovered  Eric Bibb on the “what are you listening to now”


----------



## ilatimer1

So I just got the MW08's and I am a little torn. They seem a little darker thank the MW07 Plus's that I have. Has anyone else noticed this?


----------



## clerkpalmer

ilatimer1 said:


> So I just got the MW08's and I am a little torn. They seem a little darker thank the MW07 Plus's that I have. Has anyone else noticed this?


Subscribed. How’s the fit?


----------



## Darkestred (Apr 15, 2021)

tiagopinto said:


> From what has been written lately, I’d really like to try these KEF’s, the Falcon Pro’s and the MW08. Just wish I had more wiggle room in my wallet and, since I’ve been reading about LE Audio and LC3 (I just hope Apple will have this available on an iPhone...), I honestly do not want to invest much now on what’s soon gonna be really different. Anyway, it’ll take some time...
> 
> Do you guys have any take on how long this will take to materialize and then eventually become a standard?
> 
> ...


SIG is pushing for makers to implement the technology now but with some 5.2 changes not being fully available could be end of 2021 or beginning of 2022 we start seeing some makers go this route.


----------



## clerkpalmer

Darkestred said:


> SIIG is pushing for makers to implement the technology now but with some 5.2 changes not being fully available could be end of 2021 or beginning of 2022 we start seeing some makers go this route.


Apple users don’t hold your breath. Apple will remain stubborn for at least a year after android. And maybe forever.


----------



## tiagopinto

Luke Skywalker said:


> Yep, and in the end, the hobby is about finding music that you live listening to. I just discovered  Eric Bibb on the “what are you listening to now”



Just added him to my ongoing audition playlist. Thx. 



I invite you and everyone to take a peek but it’s constantly changing as I’m removing and adding more, normally full albums. 

(the title doesn’t mean much, it’s just the date it started and the first source I used. It’s VERY eclectic though, so for all tastes)


----------



## tiagopinto (Apr 15, 2021)

tiagopinto said:


> A friend of mine, knowing my penchant for sound reproduction gadgets, go figure... told me “take my Tevi’s for a week, test them out and let me know what you think”.
> 
> At the time he got his, like a year ago, I tried talking him into buying the Melomania 1’s... he went for the Tevi’s. I showed him my MT’s this weekend but we didn’t have the opportunity for him to test mine or me his.
> 
> I listened to the Tevi for a few hours today but don’t have a complete conclusion. I’m gonna do an MT/Tevi direct comparison and I’ll give you my humble opinion.



Tevi (100€)

Form factor and tech:

Unfortunately I tried out the beige colored buds. They look more like hearing aids. I’d never get this color. White is one thing, this is not good. 

Still they are comfortable and provide a good seal/passive isolation (I only tried them indoors). I wouldn’t workout or ride my bike in these as a more vigorous shake and they loose seal or might fall off.

The Left/Right is identified but you must angle them to the light to be able to see the tiny L or R.

The app is basic but works. EQ is fairly responsive but not the cure.

Button controls are too firm and every time uncomfortably pushing the buds in your ears, having to be readjusted.

The case is ok, although in this color it gets dirty very quick. No wireless charge. (Remaining charge) Lights only stay on for like half a second (forcing repeat actions) and the lights on the buds are very tiny and almost imperceptible (maybe they’d be more noticeable if the buds were black)

One very positive thing is that they always reconnected and never skipped or muted, even for a second.  Strangely, they remained “connected” even inside the closed case, which makes me wonder about battery drain...

Sound
Frequency Range:
Lows - present but not extended (only mid bass, no low bass)
Mids - bleed into all else
Highs - defined but not crisp

Soundstage - narrow (nowhere near)
Instrument Separation - muffled (nowhere near)
Musicality - no



MT (130€)

Form factor and tech:
I have these in black (but could get the white without any issue).

They are very comfortable, provide a good seal/passive isolation and the fins make them stay put and secure for workouts/bike rides. Although, as I have mentioned before, there is the awareness/wind noise issue.

Left/Right is clearly identified (and once you get used to them) even in the dark.

The app is fine, works well and has full control and EQ (with three custom profiles).

Touch controls are VERY sensitive, even triggered by a neck tube. Positive is they never miss, negative is they never miss.

The case is ok, maybe a little less robust but the lights stay on while the case is open. No wireless charge. The lights os the buds are noticeable and clear.

As is known, these buds had connection issues but this was solved by firmware and since then only very occasional dropouts occur.

Sound
Frequency Range:
Lows - present, extended (might need taming for some tastes)
Mids - clear, defined
Highs - defined, crisp (but not at all sibilant)

Soundstage - wide
Instrument Separation - definitely noticeable
Musicality - yes!


Bottom line is the Tevi’s may be more neutral sounding but there’s a sense that the sound is congested. On the other hand, although the MT’s may be more bass bloated, they make for a definitely more exciting and engaging audition.
I listened to several different genres and, as usual, my headphone test playlist. This is definitely not a critical review but just my two cents when comparing these two. Price/quality, I wouldn’t hesitate on the MT’s.


----------



## tiagopinto (Apr 15, 2021)

clerkpalmer said:


> Apple users don’t hold your breath. Apple will remain stubborn for at least a year after android. And maybe forever.



I know, I know. Everything works but it’s at their own pace...


----------



## ilatimer1

clerkpalmer said:


> Subscribed. How’s the fit?


I like the fit better than the MW07 Plus. Just feels more comfortable. I don't jump around with them so I am not sure how secure they are.


----------



## d3myz

Hi All, I've been away too long, been allocating my funds for an new OLED and building a new PC. 
Saw a review this morning on the MW08's and thought it might be time to buy a few more pairs of TWS'. 
I've been rocking the APPs, FIIL T1 Pros, Jabra 75t's and my Tevi's for a long while now and was wondering what all of your favorite TWS's at the moment are?


----------



## d3myz

gdv brisbane said:


> Looks like a complete reboot for the Echo Buds. DD rather than BA and they've dropped the Bose ANR for "their own" ANC.
> https://www.amazon.com/All-new-Echo...ld=1&keywords=echo+buds&qid=1618493876&sr=8-1


I just pulled the trigger on these too. I loved the SQ of the original and the ANC, but the fit wasn't great for me and the touch controls were buggy as hell.


----------



## tiagopinto

TWS choices...

KEF Mu3 (200€) maybe but would have to listen. I like the descriptions I’ve read

M&D MW08 (300€) the “probable” choice, but expensive

Noble Falcon Pro (330€) have read high praise, but VERY expensive

Grado GT220 (260€) I like the quality. But they definitely lack in “extra features”

Between these and the MT’s I own, what is your take? How do they compare? Are the others much better that they justify their price jump over the MT?

I prefer sound quality, and this trait is definitely the most important, but also like to have extra features, like Ambient/ANC, Qi, decent battery, good secure fit, nice easy controls (if buttons they must be soft or displaced like the M&D). I don’t care much for codecs as I’m on an iPhone (mostly) or an iPad. I listen to most genres on Spotify and Tidal (hi-fi). 
It’s my firm belief that any headphone (or speaker) should play well any genre (the meaning of high fidelity) and that EQ should only be corrective if needed. But our ears are free and taste plays a big role. 

Should I stay put or risk it? Which ones, any of these or any others?... too many questions. Thanks.


----------



## clerkpalmer

I am weak. MW08 ordered.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic (Apr 15, 2021)

d3myz said:


> Hi All, I've been away too long, been allocating my funds for an new OLED and building a new PC.
> Saw a review this morning on the MW08's and thought it might be time to buy a few more pairs of TWS'.
> I've been rocking the APPs, FIIL T1 Pros, Jabra 75t's and my Tevi's for a long while now and was wondering what all of your favorite TWS's at the moment are?


For live/acoustic? Technics AZ70W. For more of an all-rounder? Noble Falcon Pro. Considering what you already have in your stable, I think those two options will provide the most different pair.

With the APP, you don't really need ANC/hearthrough in something else unless you're legitimately looking to replace the APPs. Nobody else's implementations have come close to Apple's in effectivity for me and that's coming from an Android guy. I don't even like that ecosystem.

With the Fiil/Lypertek, you already have relatively similar sound signatures when compared against each other. The Jabras are your bassy pair. I think one of the other two would round out the collection nicely.

And you're probably going to get some recommendations from others for the KEF, Grado, and Devialet. I've heard of enough people returning their Grados because their feature set was too sparse for the price. Devialet _may_ have managed to fix their issues with a firmware update, but the jury is still out for some people. And I have a love/hate relationship with Sennheiser, to the extent that I'll just say I don't think the sound signature is going to different _enough_ from the Fiil and Jabra to warrant staying there.

Wildcard recommendation? Get the HiBy R3 and some SpinFits because those stock tips are awful and the sound signature is diverse enough to be effectively a lot of different sound signatures rolled up into one product. While I'm not the biggest fan of HiBy's Blue software (what you use to interface with the buds), it's worked consistently well and that can't be overlooked. Of course, I'm also semi-selfishly recommending these so I can have someone to talk about them with  



clerkpalmer said:


> I am weak. MW08 ordered.


Bud, you should look at my bank statements for the past couple months...


----------



## Kuli

d3myz said:


> Hi All, I've been away too long, been allocating my funds for an new OLED and building a new PC.
> Saw a review this morning on the MW08's and thought it might be time to buy a few more pairs of TWS'.
> I've been rocking the APPs, FIIL T1 Pros, Jabra 75t's and my Tevi's for a long while now and was wondering what all of your favorite TWS's at the moment are?


Been rocking Technics az70w, Lypertek Tevi, Sennheiser cx400bt and Oluv tuned earfun free pro.

All are great in their own way. Love the Technics for its technical performance. It just retrieves a lot of details


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

tiagopinto said:


> TWS choices...
> 
> KEF Mu3 (200€) maybe but would have to listen. I like the descriptions I’ve read
> 
> ...


I'll do the NFP comparison; others can comment on the Grado, M&D (won't assume the MW07 GO and MW08 are sonically the same), and KEF.

The NFP has the potential to knock your socks off in sound and, since you're running iOS won't have to deal with the codec issues I did. Where the MT has a very robust midbass, there's barely any perceivable bloom on the NFP to notice. Slight difference in tuning choices; it's what you'll tend to find with V-shaped material. Trick is realizing that those types of signatures need compensation via EQ if you're planning to crank them up often; in that case, I would suggest that it's required, not just needed. Wish I could give you a bigger thumb rule than that, but seems like a lot of that energy is between 6k and 8k and the in-app EQ is pretty responsive and knocking those down a little bit.

Did I mention they're one of the few pairs I have where the stock tips do just fine, by the way? Those E-Pro horns are great.


----------



## clerkpalmer

miserybeforethemusic said:


> For live/acoustic? Technics AZ70W. For more of an all-rounder? Noble Falcon Pro. Considering what you already have in your stable, I think those two options will provide the most different pair.
> 
> With the APP, you don't really need ANC/hearthrough in something else unless you're legitimately looking to replace the APPs. Nobody else's implementations have come close to Apple's in effectivity for me and that's coming from an Android guy. I don't even like that ecosystem.
> 
> ...


Lol yeah you may have me beat in the short term but if you go back to about page 5 of this 2000 page thread, I’ve been here since the beginning. The amount of money I’ve spent on tws since the original bragi dash is outrageous. The search for newer, better and different is never ending. The original mw07 was a groundbreaking tws based on the sound quality. I have a soft spot for them. As an aside, the mw07go worked surprisingly well on the bike. A little noisy over 15 mph but that is to be expected.


----------



## erockg

clerkpalmer said:


> I am weak. MW08 ordered.


You won't be disappointed.  They rock.  I've has all the M&D TWS and these are by far my favorite.


----------



## clerkpalmer

erockg said:


> You won't be disappointed.  They rock.  I've has all the M&D TWS and these are by far my favorite.


Thanks. Yeah now the waiting game. FedEx Ground from the left coast. Brutal. I’m anxious to compare them to the Gemini.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

clerkpalmer said:


> Lol yeah you may have me beat in the short term but if you go back to about page 5 of this 2000 page thread, I’ve been here since the beginning. The amount of money I’ve spent on tws since the original bragi dash is outrageous. The search for newer, better and different is never ending. The original mw07 was a groundbreaking tws based on the sound quality. I have a soft spot for them. As an aside, the mw07go worked surprisingly well on the bike. A little noisy over 15 mph but that is to be expected.


Plot twist: I remember you from the Chi-Fi threads. Had a different username at that time. For reference, the ZS3 was new...

Awesome news about the M&Ds on the bike. I assume the FITS were a no-go?


----------



## erockg

clerkpalmer said:


> Thanks. Yeah now the waiting game. FedEx Ground from the left coast. Brutal. I’m anxious to compare them to the Gemini.


I had to return my Gemini's but I do still think the G's are better.  Different.  Both very very good.  I plan to get the Gemini's when they're re-released next month for sure.  I'm on the West Coast and M&D has a warehouse here.  We get the M&D stuff in a few days.  I know M&D are in NYC.  Interesting they don't have a warehouse back East.


----------



## clerkpalmer

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Plot twist: I remember you from the Chi-Fi threads. Had a different username at that time. For reference, the ZS3 was new...
> 
> Awesome news about the M&Ds on the bike. I assume the FITS were a no-go?


As Flossy would say “major major no go”. I’m getting a bad seal, thin sound. I emailed support for the other tips and no response in 2 days. Disappointing. Going back to Amazon.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

clerkpalmer said:


> As Flossy would say “major major no go”. I’m getting a bad seal, thin sound. I emailed support for the other tips and no response in 2 days. Disappointing. Going back to Amazon.


Took me almost two weeks to get the Size 2. Only thing that changed? I replied to my ticket asking what was going on. Had a shipping notification the next day.

Seems like you've gotta be persistent with UE.

White Shoes? Calm down.


erockg said:


> I had to return my Gemini's but I do still think the G's are better.  Different.  Both very very good.  I plan to get the Gemini's when they're re-released next month for sure.  I'm on the West Coast and M&D has a warehouse here.  We get the M&D stuff in a few days.  I know M&D are in NYC.  Interesting they don't have a warehouse back East.


The golden age of fulfillment centers at work.


----------



## erockg

clerkpalmer said:


> As Flossy would say “major major no go”. I’m getting a bad seal, thin sound. I emailed support for the other tips and no response in 2 days. Disappointing. Going back to Amazon.


Email them through the app.  They responded to me right away.  You have to go through the fit test, and fail it, then you'll email them.  They'll hook you up.  Size 2 made a world of difference for me.


----------



## erockg (Apr 15, 2021)

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Took me almost two weeks to get the Size 2. Only thing that changed? I replied to my ticket asking what was going on. Had a shipping notification the next day.
> 
> Seems like you've gotta be persistent with UE.
> 
> ...


UE is in Irvine CA.  They shipped my tips on a Friday and I got them here in LA on Saturday.  Crazy.  UPS Ground.  But yes, I had to email them and say, hey, why haven't they shipped.  I'm sure there's like one guy doing it all in this new age of working from home.

Sadly, I'm forced to listed to that song way too much over here with a toddler.

https://www.youtube.com


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

erockg said:


> UE is in Irvine CA.  They shipped my tips on a Friday and I got them here in LA on Saturday.  Crazy.  UPS Ground.  But yes, I had to email them and say, hey, why haven't they shipped.  I'm sure there's like one guy doing it all in this new age of working from home.


Can I take their job and just keep my existing pay? I'll turn them into a household name overnight just from the improvement in CS turnaround. Need full amnesty from HR for a week to make it happen.

On a serious note, yeah they ship fast once they do send your stuff out the door.


erockg said:


> Sadly, I'm forced to listed to that song way too much over here with a toddler.


I had Baby Shark, Let it Go, all the Cars music, and Everything is Awesome. I feel your pain.


----------



## Darkestred

miserybeforethemusic said:


> I'll do the NFP comparison; others can comment on the Grado, M&D (won't assume the MW07 GO and MW08 are sonically the same), and KEF.
> 
> The NFP has the potential to knock your socks off in sound and, since you're running iOS won't have to deal with the codec issues I did. Where the MT has a very robust midbass, there's barely any perceivable bloom on the NFP to notice. Slight difference in tuning choices; it's what you'll tend to find with V-shaped material. Trick is realizing that those types of signatures need compensation via EQ if you're planning to crank them up often; in that case, I would suggest that it's required, not just needed. Wish I could give you a bigger thumb rule than that, but seems like a lot of that energy is between 6k and 8k and the in-app EQ is pretty responsive and knocking those down a little bit.
> 
> Did I mention they're one of the few pairs I have where the stock tips do just fine, by the way? Those E-Pro horns are great.



Have you heard the original Falcon ? That was a W-shaped tuning and it was pretty bad.  Did noble make this a completely different TWS solution?


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

Darkestred said:


> Have you heard the original Falcon ? That was a W-shaped tuning and it was pretty bad.  Did noble make this a completely different TWS solution?


Yep. Have the Falcon 1 here. Tuning isn't the same between the two. You've got a lot more treble extension on the Falcon Pro and the midbass to midrange transition is much cleaner. Listeners who are sensitive to shout may need to play with EQ a little, but I basically leave every band other than 8k alone (3-4 dB dip depending on the material) and that's only when I want to crank up the volume.

Keep in mind the NF1 is a single-DD unit. Not what I usually consider Noble's specialty. The NFP really does benefit from having a hybrid configuration and the upgrade in detail retrieval is noticeable. I'd pick the NF1 if I wanted something a little smoother that could serve as a background music generator. I use the NFP when I want to get up and dance. And by dance, I mean doing the Leash Tango for our daily dog walks.

The shells themselves are also a little slimmer, which does help with long-term comfort. Overall shape of the nozzle side of the buds is pretty similar. Both seem to use variations of the E-Pro Horn tips, so I'm not chalking it up to a tip issue.


----------



## CocaCola15

gdv brisbane said:


> Looks like a complete reboot for the Echo Buds. DD rather than BA and they've dropped the Bose ANR for "their own" ANC.
> https://www.amazon.com/All-new-Echo...ld=1&keywords=echo+buds&qid=1618493876&sr=8-1





d3myz said:


> I just pulled the trigger on these too. I loved the SQ of the original and the ANC, but the fit wasn't great for me and the touch controls were buggy as hell.


Same here. Though I never owned the originals. Time to call my shrink!


----------



## d3myz

miserybeforethemusic said:


> For live/acoustic? Technics AZ70W. For more of an all-rounder? Noble Falcon Pro. Considering what you already have in your stable, I think those two options will provide the most different pair.
> 
> With the APP, you don't really need ANC/hearthrough in something else unless you're legitimately looking to replace the APPs. Nobody else's implementations have come close to Apple's in effectivity for me and that's coming from an Android guy. I don't even like that ecosystem.
> 
> ...


I appreciate the feedback, man. Had the Technics when they launched, couldn't justify the sound quality for the price. I have the L2p's and the XM3's but they are both too bulky for my liking. I'll have to look in to the Gemini's and the Falcon's.


----------



## FYLegend

Lost my Earfun Free Pro case so now I'm back to using Galaxy Buds+ and TaoTronics. Buds+ are terrible at retaining battery life when not used. After about 2 weeks of not charging the case and buds are depleted, and the earbuds will only trickle-charge when you re-mount them. Earfun told me they don't sell the case on its own, unfortunately.

Are "bad run" SoundPeats T2 still being sold? I see it on Amazon.ca but am reluctant to buy it after seeing comments about clipping distortion when ANC is used, and the fact that SoundPeats is attributing it to a bad run of units but appears to be still selling them.


----------



## Canabuc

d3myz said:


> I appreciate the feedback, man. Had the Technics when they launched, couldn't justify the sound quality for the price. I have the L2p's and the XM3's but they are both too bulky for my liking. I'll have to look in to the Gemini's and the Falcon's.


Fiil t1 pro are small and cheap sound great


----------



## Peddler

Just got the Soundpeats T2 and haven't experienced any issues at all with them - in fact I think they're rather impressive for their price.


----------



## d3myz

I'm sure this has been covered, but can anyone tell me the diff. between the regular and OLUV tuned version of the Earfun Free Pro? I have the FIIL T1pro and don't own an android device which means I'm pretty much stuck w/o the ability to EQ them or use the app with them. Wondering if grabbing the EFP's would be worth it?


----------



## Canabuc

d3myz said:


> I'm sure this has been covered, but can anyone tell me the diff. between the regular and OLUV tuned version of the Earfun Free Pro? I have the FIIL T1pro and don't own an android device which means I'm pretty much stuck w/o the ability to EQ them or use the app with them. Wondering if grabbing the EFP's would be worth it?


Why don't you bring your buds to a friend with android phone install the fiil app. Make the modifications and then you no longer need the app.


----------



## d3myz

Canabuc said:


> Why don't you bring your buds to a friend with android phone install the fiil app. Make the modifications and then you no longer need the app.


I did, put them on bass about 6 months ago. but not being able to swap back and forth is a pain in the a$$.


----------



## Canabuc

d3myz said:


> I did, put them on bass about 6 months ago. but not being able to swap back and forth is a pain in the a$$.


Use equalizer set it how you like.
Or get a dirt cheap used android phone for like 20$


----------



## d3myz

Canabuc said:


> Use equalizer set it how you like.
> Or get a dirt cheap used android phone for like 20$


I just realized I bought my kids fire tablets for Christmas and I could use one. Thanks for the suggestion.


----------



## Canabuc

d3myz said:


> I just realized I bought my kids fire tablets for Christmas and I could use one. Thanks for the suggestion.


I recommend downloading the app from xda developer website.. someone translated it into English.


----------



## jant71 (Apr 15, 2021)

N10 Pro already re-imagined into the N10 Plus with 5.2, multipoint, aptX adaptive, gaming mode and other stuff and in new colors. https://nuarl.com/en/n10plus/

Oh yeah $50 cheaper as well. $200 this time round it seems.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

jant71 said:


> N10 Pro already re-imagined into the N10 Plus with 5.2, multipoint, aptX adaptive, gaming mode and other stuff and in new colors. https://nuarl.com/en/n10plus/


Sounds like the next flavor a lot of people are going to be trying out. I was already curious about the sound signature hahaha.

I'm just over here hell-bent on making aptX Adaptive work on the NFP without having that issue with distortion. Something tells me it might be related to the signal, so I'm going to mess with the in-app preamp controls. Maybe a dB or two down is all I'm going to need...


----------



## tlau1125

jant71 said:


> N10 Pro already re-imagined into the N10 Plus with 5.2, multipoint, aptX adaptive, gaming mode and other stuff and in new colors. https://nuarl.com/en/n10plus/
> 
> Oh yeah $50 cheaper as well. $200 this time round it seems.


Seems like Nuarl does not implement HDSS in N10 Plus.


----------



## diimaan

Not to be picky but!


“Equipped with NUARL acoustic technology

N10 Plus adopted original PTT multilayer diaphragm assembly with φ10.0mm dynamic type full range driver forming “NUARL DRIVER”[N10]v3, combining analog and digital tuning by storing the earbud module in a metal housing. Also, adopted the patented technology HDSS® which can prevent the in-head positioning problem that is common in inner type earbud and reproduce natural sound spread for the entire frequency band.”


----------



## bladefd (Apr 16, 2021)

That battery life looks pretty crappy if you use ANC with aptx. 3.5hrs. Without anc on, it's only 5hrs. Same as n10 pro. You would think they would be able to improve that battery life a bit in revision version. Good to see them drop the price on it down to $200 though.

I would wait for the Sony wf-1000xm4 to see what their specs are. Announcement should be just around the corner.

I'm personally waiting until the other companies. For this generation, I'm probably keeping with the MT. Cambridge audio firmware update is imminent from what the customer support said. I like that they are continuously fixing issues. Hopefully this one fixes the volume issue I have or I will have to rma.


----------



## bronco1015

I've went back and forth on whether or not to buy the MT.
From an SQ perspective, are they technically capable of hanging with or providing better SQ than  the MTW2, Technics AZ70?
Or what models in your opinion are they comparable to?


----------



## bronco1015

miserybeforethemusic said:


> I still think the codec is in beta form, though. Bandwidth seems very dependent on factors the user can't always control and the type of artifacting it produces when things do go south are unpleasant, to say the least...


Totally sums up my experience with APTX Adaptive. IMO APTX HD is way more stable and products tend to sound much better with it than via APTX Adaptive. One example, I traded for a Drop panda and while it's pretty overrated IMO, it does sound quite good over APTX HD vs APTX Adaptive. I just wish LDAC at 990 KBPS was stable. it really shines with the Aonic 50 and Drop Panda.
Back on track, I won't be buying a TWE just because it has APTX ADaptive. Maybe in a generation or 2.


----------



## webvan

d3myz said:


> I just pulled the trigger on these too. I loved the SQ of the original and the ANC, but the fit wasn't great for me and the touch controls were buggy as hell.


Do you have a shipping date ? They're showing as "out of stock" on amazon right now.

I like that the v1 are on the larger side as I could "tuck" them in my (larger ?) ears perfectly unlike most TWS that tend to pop out, the worse being the Sony's of course. The new ones may be 21% "smaller" but the also seem "thicker", a bit like the Panasonic ANC TWS and that didn't work too well for my ears either.
Never had a problem with the touch controls apart from the limited combinations available.
And the final "bad" news is that they mention a "vent for less pressure" so that's probably going to me less passive isolation, where the v1s were pretty much "king" and with the ANR it was the best isolating combo in the game. That "vent" that Apple claim to have doesn't really help with the dreaded "runner's thud" either in my experience.

Anyway, I'll be interested in reading feedback on these !

Big fa


gdv brisbane said:


> Looks like a complete reboot for the Echo Buds. DD rather than BA and they've dropped the Bose ANR for "their own" ANC.
> https://www.amazon.com/All-new-Echo...ld=1&keywords=echo+buds&qid=1618493876&sr=8-1


Not sure about DD vs BA, the SQ was really good on the v1 but it seems I'm BA biased as I also love the SQ of the L2Ps...


----------



## Canabuc

bronco1015 said:


> I've went back and forth on whether or not to buy the MT.
> From an SQ perspective, are they technically capable of hanging with or providing better SQ than  the MTW2, Technics AZ70?
> Or what models in your opinion are they comparable to?


I prefer the MT sound to either of those.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

bronco1015 said:


> I've went back and forth on whether or not to buy the MT.
> From an SQ perspective, are they technically capable of hanging with or providing better SQ than  the MTW2, Technics AZ70?
> Or what models in your opinion are they comparable to?


MT, to my ears, sits closer to the M&Ds in tonality, though nowhere near as dark. Between the two you mentioned, they're tonally closest to the Sennheiser.

Regarding technicalities, I don't put them up with either. Harsh reality, but the MT is musical and not technical. If you want something that's really good with spatial cues, I think the Technics and NFP have impressed me most. Even the WH3 has its moments. Need more in the low end? Go with the Senn, but you're going to sacrifice some spatial cues for it.


----------



## bronco1015

Canabuc said:


> I prefer the MT sound to either of those.





miserybeforethemusic said:


> MT, to my ears, sits closer to the M&Ds in tonality, though nowhere near as dark. Between the two you mentioned, they're tonally closest to the Sennheiser.
> 
> Regarding technicalities, I don't put them up with either. Harsh reality, but the MT is musical and not technical. If you want something that's really good with spatial cues, I think the Technics and NFP have impressed me most. Even the WH3 has its moments. Need more in the low end? Go with the Senn, but you're going to sacrifice some spatial cues for it.


alright, I feel like these 2 posts kind of feed in to one another based on impressions i've gathered from multiple posts from both of you. Sounds like my suspicions about how the MT might sound aren't far off. If I didn't already have the MTW2 and MTW, though the latter is inching towards death's door unfortunately, i'd probably pick these up. i'll wait for the NFP's to drop below $300. I won't spend more than $300 on a TWE. I know, it's only $30, but i've gotta draw a line somewhere lol. 
Thanks for your replies.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

bronco1015 said:


> alright, I feel like these 2 posts kind of feed in to one another based on impressions i've gathered from multiple posts from both of you. Sounds like my suspicions about how the MT might sound aren't far off. If I didn't already have the MTW2 and MTW, though the latter is inching towards death's door unfortunately, i'd probably pick these up. i'll wait for the NFP's to drop below $300. I won't spend more than $300 on a TWE. I know, it's only $30, but i've gotta draw a line somewhere lol.
> Thanks for your replies.


Audio46 had an Open Box one for $275 for a while, but looked like someone scooped it up. Don't blame you for wanting to wait it out for the right price. Maybe Noble will do something crazy for Black Friday this year.

I think your suspicions are probably right; with the MTW2, I think the MT is superfluous. Don't get me wrong; it's a really fun and comfortable TWS. I just think it won't be that different than what you already have.


----------



## jant71 (Apr 16, 2021)

bladefd said:


> That battery life looks pretty crappy if you use ANC with aptx. 3.5hrs. Without anc on, it's only 5hrs. Same as n10 pro. You would think they would be able to improve that battery life a bit in revision version. Good to see them drop the price on it down to $200 though.
> 
> I would wait for the Sony wf-1000xm4 to see what their specs are. Announcement should be just around the corner.
> 
> I'm personally waiting until the other companies. For this generation, I'm probably keeping with the MT. Cambridge audio firmware update is imminent from what the customer support said. I like that they are continuously fixing issues. Hopefully this one fixes the volume issue I have or I will have to rma.



Quick revision and don't think they were gonna do too much. Last one before the X77 or whatever it will be called and the Plus and Pro will be obsolete. I know I want them putting the time into the new one instead of doing more of a rework of the N10 Pro.


----------



## Canabuc

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Audio46 had an Open Box one for $275 for a while, but looked like someone scooped it up. Don't blame you for wanting to wait it out for the right price. Maybe Noble will do something crazy for Black Friday this year.
> 
> I think your suspicions are probably right; with the MTW2, I think the MT is superfluous. Don't get me wrong; it's a really fun and comfortable TWS. I just think it won't be that different than what you already have.


Preferred the MT sonically to MTW2. Better Bass less veiled low mods equalizer actually made relevant changes to the frequency response.
Some songs I found the mtw2 sounded great and others poor.
Not so with Melomania


----------



## Canabuc

Well I just wanna head and did it in bought my 1st in ear monitor in over 20 years.

Blon bl-01. Dirt cheap at about 25$.
With no burn in and an under amped tablet because I am awaiting my USB C dac amp, all I can say is wow! 

So these with no tip rolling yet no EQ etc. sound better than any tws I have heard. 

Bass is no deeper than others but better texture and faster without muffling the mids.

Vocals are clear Treble is extended and maybe not most detailed compared to other iems but more than most if not all tws.

If there is one tiny criticism is sometimes the lower treble can get a tiny bit hot but not fatiguing.

Imagine with better dac Amp and burn in these will sound even better.

So I can say definitively we are not quite there yet for TWS is a 25$ but beats out 300$ buds in sound quality.

I think once bluetooth LE allows higher bit rate data transmission  we will get there because the drivers are not the limitation.


----------



## PixelSquish

bronco1015 said:


> alright, I feel like these 2 posts kind of feed in to one another based on impressions i've gathered from multiple posts from both of you. Sounds like my suspicions about how the MT might sound aren't far off. If I didn't already have the MTW2 and MTW, though the latter is inching towards death's door unfortunately, i'd probably pick these up. i'll wait for the NFP's to drop below $300. I won't spend more than $300 on a TWE. I know, it's only $30, but i've gotta draw a line somewhere lol.
> Thanks for your replies.



I have the MTW2 and had the MT's. Sound-wise, they are amazing. They went toe to toe with the MTW2, with a slightly different signature that I kind of preferred, although it was on the more musical side vs technical side for sure, and they did play at a higher volume, so I found myself reaching for them more and more. However, they have some idiosyncrasies with glitches that made me return them. However if they get a hardware revision to fix those issues and/or come out with a successor, I will be buying them again. I miss the MT sound for sure.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

Canabuc said:


> Well I just wanna head and did it in bought my 1st in ear monitor in over 20 years.
> 
> Blon bl-01. Dirt cheap at about 25$.
> With no burn in and an under amped tablet because I am awaiting my USB C dac amp, all I can say is wow!
> ...


Awesome, glad they showed up!

The problem is you now have a basis for comparison as far as convenience is concerned. The first few times you choose to get up with a wired pair are going to feel a little awkward. Seems like such a minor thing, but it creeps up on you.

That being  said, I do not take for granted how nice it is to put my phone down and just move around the house when I'm listening to music and not have to worry about cable management.


----------



## pkcpga

cr3ativ3 said:


> How would you guys rank (only by sound ) the tws sets You have heard !? Which is the best sounding ?
> 
> 1. technics az70w
> 2. sennheiser mtw2
> ...


Ones I’ve heard:
1. Noble Falcon Pro
2. Grado GT220
3. Sennheiser mtw2


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

pkcpga said:


> Ones I’ve heard:
> 1. Noble Falcon Pro
> 2. Grado GT220
> 3. Sennheiser mtw2


Listening notes on the Grado? Just curious since their cans are always so polarizing


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

Been listening to the NFP with aptX Adaptive on, determined to test their limits. I'm not going gentle on them, either.

A little bit of Rodrigo y Gabriela's _Echoes_, because all those percussives on the guitar are bass overload. They're not too shabby here, but I think I'd definitely trade the thump these have with the brighter signature of the Technics for tracks like this. No distortion, at least.

A little bit of 24/96 organ music (_Toccata & Fugue in Dm_, of course) because I can't think of a better torture test on both the amp and dynamic range of these things. I'm missing a little bit of the wind at the top end of each note and the throat on those low notes. Darn, I really wish that could have been a slam dunk, but I feel like I need a lot more weight on the bottom notes. For full transparency, this is really, really hard for a lot of setups to render correctly. Bar is set intentionally high. Again, no distortion. Interesting.

Even went full bass and threw down with some Kayzo - _Wake Up, _followed Kendrick Lamar's Backseat Freestyle_. 

Ah_, _there it is_.

So I think something's probably happening when dealing with dynamically-compressed music either near or at clipping. Dropping the preamp by another couple dB helps, but there's definitely a max volume for these buds on some material. That's on Tidal, by the way.

Now here's the kicker: playing the same exact Kayzo track on Spotify produced no audible distortion, which leads me to think it's still a throughput issue. My phone is about 7 inches from the buds for all of this testing, btw. It should be getting full bandwidth.


----------



## pkcpga

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Listening notes on the Grado? Just curious since their cans are always so polarizing


They are not completely a true grado sound but more well rounded sound wise then many that need a decent amount of EQ.  Like many true wireless a more V sound signature.  Unlike many true wireless the Grado’s have decent timing, good micro and macro dynamics combined with decent amount of detail.  Not as separated as the the Falcon Pro, having three drivers definitely gives an advantage with detail and separation.  Overall the Grado’s are a pleasant sound signature with just enough detail, separation and dynamics to make me keep them.  To me they sound similar to the Sennheiser mtw2 just with better timing, the mtw2 seems to have bass that lags behind the rest of the music, while the Grado keeps everything more in line.  The Grado’s highs are a little unrefined but not brittle or harsh, just not as clean, detailed or airy as the Nobles.  The Grado’s highs are a bit more detailed then the mtw2 but the mtw2 has softer edges which makes them a little more refined sounding.  Grado has quick bass that can hit when needed but far from bloated like the Sony 1000 or as slow and extended as the mtw2.  More balanced, no real bleeding into the mids, this is the only spot on the 220’s that keeps Grado’s sound signature, the vocals are a little forward and have that little forceful full vocal range Grado is known for.  Not overdone like some of their headphones but definitely tuned for vocals more then any other true wireless I’ve heard.  The Grado timbre and texture of vocals are enough that I’m going to hold onto them.

I also recently tried the UE FITS since I have a custom iem from them and a bunch of people seem to like them.  For myself while comfortable they really don’t sound like anything special, the app isn’t great.  Wound up sending them back.


----------



## SemiAudiophile

PixelSquish said:


> I have the MTW2 and had the MT's. Sound-wise, they are amazing. They went toe to toe with the MTW2, with a slightly different signature that I kind of preferred, although it was on the more musical side vs technical side for sure, and they did play at a higher volume, so I found myself reaching for them more and more. However, they have some idiosyncrasies with glitches that made me return them. However if they get a hardware revision to fix those issues and/or come out with a successor, I will be buying them again. I miss the MT sound for sure.


You guys are making me contemplate on picking up the M1+ now. I think I'll wait til Black Friday sale though. 😄


----------



## SemiAudiophile

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Awesome, glad they showed up!
> 
> The problem is you now have a basis for comparison as far as convenience is concerned. The first few times you choose to get up with a wired pair are going to feel a little awkward. Seems like such a minor thing, but it creeps up on you.
> 
> That being  said, I do not take for granted how nice it is to put my phone down and just move around the house when I'm listening to music and not have to worry about cable management.


I just ordered the BT20S pro while I'm still waiting for the UTWS3 to ship...will see how they compare in the mean time. Maybe I'll keep both????


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

SemiAudiophile said:


> I just ordered the BT20S pro while I'm still waiting for the UTWS3 to ship...will see how they compare in the mean time. Maybe I'll keep both????


Makes sense to have a backup. Who the heck wants to wait for their IEMs to _charge_?


----------



## SemiAudiophile (Apr 16, 2021)

pkcpga said:


> They are not completely a true grado sound but more well rounded sound wise then many that need a decent amount of EQ.  Like many true wireless a more V sound signature.  Unlike many true wireless the Grado’s have decent timing, good micro and macro dynamics combined with decent amount of detail.  Not as separated as the the Falcon Pro, having three drivers definitely gives an advantage with detail and separation.  Overall the Grado’s are a pleasant sound signature with just enough detail, separation and dynamics to make me keep them.  To me they sound similar to the Sennheiser mtw2 just with better timing, the mtw2 seems to have bass that lags behind the rest of the music, while the Grado keeps everything more in line.  The Grado’s highs are a little unrefined but not brittle or harsh, just not as clean, detailed or airy as the Nobles.  The Grado’s highs are a bit more detailed then the mtw2 but the mtw2 has softer edges which makes them a little more refined sounding.  Grado has quick bass that can hit when needed but far from bloated like the Sony 1000 or as slow and extended as the mtw2.  More balanced, no real bleeding into the mids, this is the only spot on the 220’s that keeps Grado’s sound signature, the vocals are a little forward and have that little forceful full vocal range Grado is known for.  Not overdone like some of their headphones but definitely tuned for vocals more then any other true wireless I’ve heard.  The Grado timbre and texture of vocals are enough that I’m going to hold onto them.
> 
> I also recently tried the UE FITS since I have a custom iem from them and a bunch of people seem to like them.  For myself while comfortable they really don’t sound like anything special, the app isn’t great.  Wound up sending them back.


I agree with your assessment of the GT220. Not a true Grado house sound but very close. They are actually more well rounded than traditional over ear Grado headphones. Still the best for Rock IMO. And the upper mids are more tolerable and less piercing than the over ear counterparts. They are better value than SR225 imo.


----------



## Canabuc

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Awesome, glad they showed up!
> 
> The problem is you now have a basis for comparison as far as convenience is concerned. The first few times you choose to get up with a wired pair are going to feel a little awkward. Seems like such a minor thing, but it creeps up on you.
> 
> That being  said, I do not take for granted how nice it is to put my phone down and just move around the house when I'm listening to music and not have to worry about cable management.


Without a doubt.  Most of my music listening occurs when exercising or out and about. The convenience of no wires is paramount. 

This is my main reason for not going too expensive investment for my return to iems.

I am just impressed at what quality can be derived with such a budget set. Major improvements from 20 years go. My old 150$ Shures never sounded this good at 6x the price.


----------



## bladefd (Apr 16, 2021)

SemiAudiophile said:


> You guys are making me contemplate on picking up the M1+ now. I think I'll wait til Black Friday sale though. 😄


By then, I bet there will be announcements for next gen stuff. We should also have the Sony xm4 out by then. The landscape will be very different. Everything we are discussing right now will be just old stuff by then lol. If it wasn't for covid, that should have been this past winter but everything on new gen stuff got pushed back a whole year into upcoming winter/fall.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

bladefd said:


> By then, I bet there will be announcements for next gen stuff. We should also have the Sony xm4 out by then. The landscape will be very different by then. Everything we are discussing right now will be just old stuff by then lol. If it wasn't for covid, that should have been this past winter but everything on new gen stuff got pushed back a whole year into upcoming winter/fall.


Melomania Think should be out by then.

I want a royalty on that if they actually do it...


----------



## PixelSquish

bladefd said:


> By then, I bet there will be announcements for next gen stuff. We should also have the Sony xm4 out by then. The landscape will be very different. Everything we are discussing right now will be just old stuff by then lol. If it wasn't for covid, that should have been this past winter but everything on new gen stuff got pushed back a whole year into upcoming winter/fall.



I'm saving some pennies for the XM4's because I'm leaning towards they will be excellent and also not use that terrible form factor their current model uses. If they disappoint I'll pick up something else to pair with my MTW2.


----------



## Jmm722 (Apr 16, 2021)

PixelSquish said:


> I'm saving some pennies for the XM4's because I'm leaning towards they will be excellent and also not use that terrible form factor their current model uses. If they disappoint I'll pick up something else to pair with my MTW2.


I hope they make them water resistant.  I want a set of earbuds I can use for the gym, running and office.  Otherwise I’ll probably just get Jabra 75t active or see if anything else good comes out.

There doesn’t seem to be a do-it-all tws earbud yet.  I want to be able to run with them and use them for noise cancelling as well.  I don’t even care about price, I’d pay $500 for a do-it-all with great sound and an equalizer.


----------



## CocaCola15 (Apr 16, 2021)

SemiAudiophile said:


> You guys are making me contemplate on picking up the M1+ now. I think I'll wait til Black Friday sale though. 😄


Honestly, if I had to send one back between the MT and the M1+, I would choose the latter. I mean, both sound great to me. I had the original M1s and with foam tips (the ones CA bundles with the M1 or the M1+; Amazon has them for $10 for 5 pair), and the M1+ with the app and sound enhancement (whatever that CA engine is called), plus a basic EQ (which I don't use for the M1+) is just a home run. If you can get over the bolt-like style (I actually like click buttons over touch controls), they just fit better with the right tips. I have had issues with the MT, namely the wings hurting my right ear space after about an hour (tried all the sizes). I tried them without the wings and the right one feels like it will fall out, not snug. Also affects the sound of course (the seal always does).

And no foam tips with the MTs, only silicone. I am going to try to see if I can tip roll some foamies on the MTs so they will charge in the case. We'll see. I am keeping the MTs for now. Otherwise, they stay connected (FW updates helped) and they do sound very very nice, with  bit of EQ (take a little off the bass). I sent back my first pair in fact, but tried again (changed from black to white).

To me, if you can get the M1+ fitting right and use foam tips, they are fantastic. Imagine, Amazon had the M1s for sale at $79 for a couple of weeks. $99 now. And if they drop $20 for Black Friday, all the better. I did get $20 savings rebuying the MTs, Amazon had dropped the price from $149 to $129.

As for all the new stuff coming out, my old and aging ears are at their max level, good for my wallet! Not enough that I didn't buy a pair of the Blon Mini, haha (big fan of the Blon-03 w/balanced cable and ES100)


----------



## chinmie

Canabuc said:


> Well I just wanna head and did it in bought my 1st in ear monitor in over 20 years.
> 
> Blon bl-01. Dirt cheap at about 25$.
> With no burn in and an under amped tablet because I am awaiting my USB C dac amp, all I can say is wow!
> ...



The BL01 also pairs well with the BT20S Pro, and that "TWS combo" still have more bang for the buck in sound than more expensive true TWS.. well except for features like ANC, ambient, and case size


----------



## FYLegend

Unfortunately Earfun Free Pro is currently out of production, through their website, so I decided to get a SoundPeats T2, after the seller assured it is a new batch unit without the defect.


----------



## SemiAudiophile

CocaCola15 said:


> Honestly, if I had to send one back between the MT and the M1+, I would choose the latter. I mean, both sound great to me. I had the original M1s and with foam tips (the ones CA bundles with the M1 or the M1+; Amazon has them for $10 for 5 pair), and the M1+ with the app and sound enhancement (whatever that CA engine is called), plus a basic EQ (which I don't use for the M1+) is just a home run. If you can get over the bolt-like style (I actually like click buttons over touch controls), they just fit better with the right tips. I have had issues with the MT, namely the wings hurting my right ear space after about an hour (tried all the sizes). I tried them without the wings and the right one feels like it will fall out, not snug. Also affects the sound of course (the seal always does).
> 
> And no foam tips with the MTs, only silicone. I am going to try to see if I can tip roll some foamies on the MTs so they will charge in the case. We'll see. I am keeping the MTs for now. Otherwise, they stay connected (FW updates helped) and they do sound very very nice, with  bit of EQ (take a little off the bass). I sent back my first pair in fact, but tried again (changed from black to white).
> 
> ...


Yeah, that's when I had the M1's the first time around, when they were on sale for $79. I didn't like the bass at the time though, so I returned them. I also like the bullet style form factor more than the MT's. Since they added support for the app now (EQ), that makes it more enticing to give them a second chance.


----------



## d3myz

webvan said:


> Do you have a shipping date ? They're showing as "out of stock" on amazon right now.
> 
> I like that the v1 are on the larger side as I could "tuck" them in my (larger ?) ears perfectly unlike most TWS that tend to pop out, the worse being the Sony's of course. The new ones may be 21% "smaller" but the also seem "thicker", a bit like the Panasonic ANC TWS and that didn't work too well for my ears either.
> Never had a problem with the touch controls apart from the limited combinations available.
> ...


Shipping date for me is May 13th


----------



## potix

This belgian site states that they already have the white version of b&w pi7 in stock

http://www.hifihome.be/hifi-home-brugge_nieuws.asp?taal=nl


----------



## cr3ativ3

potix said:


> This belgian site states that they already have the white version of b&w pi7 in stock
> 
> http://www.hifihome.be/hifi-home-brugge_nieuws.asp?taal=nl


https://www.amac.nl/b-w-pi7-draadloze-oordopjes-wit


----------



## pkcpga

cr3ativ3 said:


> https://www.amac.nl/b-w-pi7-draadloze-oordopjes-wit


Very strange Bowers & Wilkins US, Dutch and UK site no longer list p17 as a model only p15, curious if someone tried ordering the p17.  Was looking forward to that model but thought it got cancelled since it’s was removed from the manufacturers site and all US store sites for preorder.


----------



## Caipirina

gdv brisbane said:


> Looks like a complete reboot for the Echo Buds. DD rather than BA and they've dropped the Bose ANR for "their own" ANC.
> https://www.amazon.com/All-new-Echo...ld=1&keywords=echo+buds&qid=1618493876&sr=8-1



What is the price on those? By now I also only see 'out of stock' with no price info ... 
I am still waiting for my V1 that I got on UK amazon for 59GBP and they are now with a friend who is scheduled to come within the month +quarantine ... he would probably kill me if I ask him to get the V2 as well  
And sure enough, now that I check, the V1 dropped another 5 quid on amz.uk! @webvan : time to get a spare at that price


----------



## Canabuc

So if u want to turn an iem into a tws do you recommend? 

1. Trn bt20 15$
2. BT20s 40$
3.Bt20spro 70$
4. Fiio us 3 115$

Approximate priced on aliexpress in Canadian dollars

Think the only one with apt hd is bt20spro.
Not sure difference between bt20 and the s model. Seems to be same.


----------



## CocaCola15

SemiAudiophile said:


> Yeah, that's when I had the M1's the first time around, when they were on sale for $79. I didn't like the bass at the time though, so I returned them. I also like the bullet style form factor more than the MT's. Since they added support for the app now (EQ), that makes it more enticing to give them a second chance.


Understood. I don't find the M1+ too bassy, but I didn't with the M1s either. On the other hand, I use(d) the M1/M1+ out of the house, on the go. So when I do that, I use the Kaiser Audio app with onboard tracks (13,000 of them on my iPhone 8+), not streaming services (I use Amazon Music HD at home with other phones, mainly over or on-ear types). The Kaiser app has a 10, 20 or 30-band EQ onboard, so I can take the bass down a bit if need be. I do that with the Touch, which delivers a bit more bass than I prefer.

Anyway, I was out today with the M1+ and they are rock solid, built like a tank, click buttons just work (no screwing around with the touch controls). I used the basic Apple Music player, no EQ for some reason and I can't be happier with a pair of TW in-ears for the price. Notice, the M1+ is now $10 more on Amazon than the Touch. Not sure what's going on with CA on that one. I sort of figured the Touch was their next level TW IEM. Guess not, as they have cut $20 from the original price.

I am going to fool around with tips/wings again on the Touch. Try and get a better fit. I would like to keep both; I am also selling off a bunch of other stuff on hand (anyone looking for the Earfun Free Pro Oluv edition?). Happy with the CA duo, the Status Between Pro for TWs and ER4XRs and BLON-03s for wired connecting.


----------



## slex

Canabuc said:


> So if u want to turn an iem into a tws do you recommend?
> 
> 1. Trn bt20 15$
> 2. BT20s 40$
> ...


No.4. more power and darker background.


----------



## Canabuc

slex said:


> No.4. more power and darker background.


I wouldn't need more power and doesn't have apt hd and is double the cost but will it give double performance?


----------



## jibberish

My Technics AZ70 have stopped working, sadly. They stopped connecting to my phone, and attempting to re-pair with any device just leads to a "Connection failed" message on the device I'm trying to pair them with.  That's not great for a set that I've owned for about 5 months.  I still do have my Jabra 85t Elites, which I preferred to the Technics for everything else except for sound, but I did really appreciate how good the AZ70 were in terms of detail retrieval and overall technicalities.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

jibberish said:


> My Technics AZ70 have stopped working, sadly. They stopped connecting to my phone, and attempting to re-pair with any device just leads to a "Connection failed" message on the device I'm trying to pair them with.  That's not great for a set that I've owned for about 5 months.  I still do have my Jabra 85t Elites, which I preferred to the Technics for everything else except for sound, but I did really appreciate how good the AZ70 were in terms of detail retrieval and overall technicalities.


Can you make a warranty claim? This sounds like it would fall under it.


----------



## jibberish

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Can you make a warranty claim? This sounds like it would fall under it.


That's a good idea.  I had only considered whether the retailer would accept a return, but I should try the manufacturer.


----------



## Caipirina

Canabuc said:


> So if u want to turn an iem into a tws do you recommend?
> 
> 1. Trn bt20 15$
> 2. BT20s 40$
> ...


For me the diff between 20 and 20s was the annoying hiss of the 20s 
For now 15$, the BT20 are a great deal.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

Well no more HiBy R5 Saber. At all. Long story. I'm not happy.

Just in time for all the color variants of the DX160 to be sold out! Just what I needed in the midst of everything else I'm dealing with right now.

Maybe I should just bulk-sell all these TWS, too. Just bail on the hobby altogether.

This hurts.


----------



## jant71 (Apr 17, 2021)

Canabuc said:


> Well I just wanna head and did it in bought my 1st in ear monitor in over 20 years.
> 
> Blon bl-01. Dirt cheap at about 25$.
> With no burn in and an under amped tablet because I am awaiting my USB C dac amp, all I can say is wow!
> ...


I just bought a used Auddio-technica Sport90BT for $21 and it also beats all the TWS I have heard. Of course they are $159 full price but they do sound better than the CKR70 TWS but not that surprising being a 7 series vs. a 9 series higher is supposed to be better. Mics are good too but hearthrough mode while having good mics has noise/hiss that is annoying and not near as good as the TWS. IMO, TWS is not quite there yet for the SQ.  As you said, LE should get us the next step closer. LE will help but I also feel they need to work on dynamic driver implementation as well since one wire models have the pod and the housings are free to do more with while TWS having everything inside the housings make optimizing DD more difficult and they can improve on that front.


----------



## turbobb (Apr 17, 2021)

jibberish said:


> My Technics AZ70 have stopped working, sadly. They stopped connecting to my phone, and attempting to re-pair with any device just leads to a "Connection failed" message on the device I'm trying to pair them with.  That's not great for a set that I've owned for about 5 months.  I still do have my Jabra 85t Elites, which I preferred to the Technics for everything else except for sound, but I did really appreciate how good the AZ70 were in terms of detail retrieval and overall technicalities.


Have u tried a factory reset? I don't own these but it's worked on other TWS when I've run into connection issues.

Check pg. 22 in the manual.


----------



## Canabuc

Caipirina said:


> For me the diff between 20 and 20s was the annoying hiss of the 20s
> For now 15$, the BT20 are a great deal.


Does it have aptx? Conflicting things looking at aliexpress.


----------



## jibberish

turbobb said:


> Have u tried a factory reset? I don't own these but it's worked on other TWS when I've run into connection issues.
> 
> Check pg. 22 in manual:
> www.technics.com/support/downloads/data/operating-instructions/eah_az70w/EAH-AZ70W_E_EN_PNQP1501YA.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwiBgcWKgobwAhVyU98KHRw2BHQQFjAAegQIAxAC&usg=AOvVaw2maFq_tE9amHMh0aWHLDQM


Oh, yes, that totally worked - thanks so much for the suggestion!


----------



## tinyman392

Canabuc said:


> So if u want to turn an iem into a tws do you recommend?
> 
> 1. Trn bt20 15$
> 2. BT20s 40$
> ...



3 or 4 since they have charging cases. The Fiio can fit a more diverse range of earbuds in its case since the openings for the buds is a bit larger. The BT20S Pro has the added ability of being able to use one BT adapter with multiple connectors since you can purchase adapters separately.


----------



## bronco1015

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Audio46 had an Open Box one for $275 for a while, but looked like someone scooped it up. Don't blame you for wanting to wait it out for the right price. Maybe Noble will do something crazy for Black Friday this year.
> 
> I think your suspicions are probably right; with the MTW2, I think the MT is superfluous. Don't get me wrong; it's a really fun and comfortable TWS. I just think it won't be that different than what you already have.. Regarding the MT, i agree. Heres hoping the next release stands out a way that makes them an easy purchase for me next time. Thanks for the heads up on the openBox deal, I'll start keeping an eye out for things like that.


----------



## assassin10000 (Apr 18, 2021)

Canabuc said:


> So if u want to turn an iem into a tws do you recommend?
> 
> 1. Trn bt20 15$
> 2. BT20s 40$
> ...





slex said:


> No.4. more power and darker background.





Caipirina said:


> For me the diff between 20 and 20s was the annoying hiss of the 20s
> For now 15$, the BT20 are a great deal.





Canabuc said:


> Does it have aptx? Conflicting things looking at aliexpress.



Bt20 - aac/sbc, lower volume/gain (less hiss with sensitive iem). 5+ hrs. May die due to sweat, no waterproofing.

Bt20s - aptx/aac/sbc, higher volume/gain, but has elevated noise floor/hiss. 6-7+ hrs. Has nano waterproof coating (no ipx given).

Both have very springy ear hooks, as there is a spring steel wire inside.


Bt20s pro - same as bt20s iirc, but has case and interchangeable softer ear hooks.


Utws3 has a separate amp with lower noise floor and more power throughput than all the other TWS adapters afaik.


I've had 2 each of #1 & 2. Skipped 3 and if it had qi charging I would already have #4.


----------



## Canabuc

assassin10000 said:


> Bt20 - aac/sbc, lower volume/gain (less hiss with sensitive iem). 5+ hrs. May die due to sweat, no waterproofing.
> 
> Bt20s - aptx/aac/sbc, higher volume/gain, but has elevated noise floor/hiss. 6-7+ hrs. Has nano waterproof coating (no ipx given).
> 
> ...


Thanks.  There is also a cheaper fiio any experience with that one?


----------



## assassin10000

Canabuc said:


> Thanks.  There is also a cheaper fiio any experience with that one?



It's a slightly changed BT20S. I think maybe a better antenna/lower noise floor, still elevated. But not significantly different.


----------



## rhsauer (Apr 18, 2021)

[delete]


----------



## FYLegend (Apr 18, 2021)

Anyone else have issue with Wavelet Graphic EQ being not as good as EqualizerAPO Parametric EQ?

Taotronics SoundLiberty 94 sounds so much cleaner with the AutoEQ preset (based on RTings), it also shows how much can be tweaked with EQ. However, with Wavelet there is a distortion at high volumes. It doesn't really clip per se (as on my Anker Q30), but at higher volumes the snare and sibilant sounds have a hard edge to them.

Does SoundPeats T2 remember your ANC setting the next time you power them on? That's one annoyance I have with the SoundLiberty 94. I end up draining the battery quite quickly.

EDIT: Used the 94s for less than 4 hours today. Case battery already depleted. Abysmal.


----------



## Canabuc

assassin10000 said:


> It's a slightly changed BT20S. I think maybe a better antenna/lower noise floor, still elevated. But not significantly different.



Fiio is utws1 not the bt20s


----------



## assassin10000

Canabuc said:


> Fiio is utws1 not the bt20s


Trn made the utws1 for Fiio. It is based on the BT20S with minor tweaks.


----------



## Canabuc

assassin10000 said:


> Trn made the utws1 for Fiio. It is based on the BT20S with minor tweaks.


Wow didn't know that. Is performed same?  Heard about connection issues...


----------



## rhsauer

FYLegend said:


> Anyone else have issue with Wavelet Graphic EQ being not as good as EqualizerAPO Parametric EQ?
> 
> Taotronics SoundLiberty 94 sounds so much cleaner with the AutoEQ preset (based on RTings), it also shows how much can be tweaked with EQ. However, with Wavelet there is a distortion at high volumes. It doesn't really clip per se (as on my Anker Q30), but at higher volumes the snare and sibilant sounds have a hard edge to them.
> 
> ...


Soundpeats T2 default to ANC and Transparency off when powered on.


----------



## Luke Skywalker

d3myz said:


> Hi All, I've been away too long, been allocating my funds for an new OLED and building a new PC.
> Saw a review this morning on the MW08's and thought it might be time to buy a few more pairs of TWS'.
> I've been rocking the APPs, FIIL T1 Pros, Jabra 75t's and my Tevi's for a long while now and was wondering what all of your favorite TWS's at the moment are?


KEF mu3 - no contest!


----------



## Luke Skywalker

jant71 said:


> N10 Pro already re-imagined into the N10 Plus with 5.2, multipoint, aptX adaptive, gaming mode and other stuff and in new colors. https://nuarl.com/en/n10plus/
> 
> Oh yeah $50 cheaper as well. $200 this time round it seems.


I still can't seem to find anywhere to buy the N10 in the USA.  I wonder what the difference between the N10 Plus and the N10 Pro are?  I love my N6Ps and wouldn't mind grabbing a pair


----------



## Canabuc

Ok well seems I may have to move to the iem threads.
Got a taste of the blon bl-01 And now just ordered the moon drop Aria which are supposed to be lime the Stanfield but maybe a bit more low end and Soundstage at lower price.

Will add so bt adapters also at some point and will have an unbelievable sound for under 150$ combined.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

Canabuc said:


> Ok well seems I may have to move to the iem threads.
> Got a taste of the blon bl-01 And now just ordered the moon drop Aria which are supposed to be lime the Stanfield but maybe a bit more low end and Soundstage at lower price.
> 
> Will add so bt adapters also at some point and will have an unbelievable sound for under 150$ combined.


Moondrop doesn't necessarily develop down like that. The Aria, to my knowledge, is intended to be an evolution of the Starfield, addressing some design concerns about them in the process (chipping paint, for example). They also parts-share across their line quite a bit and I was somewhat surprised to find out that they utilized KXXS shells on the Starfield as well (ones that apparently didn't meet the polished metal spec for the KXXS).

Think of them as a company that evolves their products more than cheapens them down. Hope you enjoy them and don't feel too bad about taking a TWS break. Just don't go too nuts upgrading now as it's pretty easy to throw money away at this stage.


----------



## pkcpga

tiagopinto said:


> TWS choices...
> 
> KEF Mu3 (200€) maybe but would have to listen. I like the descriptions I’ve read
> 
> ...


I’d skip the M&D, personally didn’t think much of them.  My favorite is the Noble Falcon Pro so far, the Grado’s I kept also, great vocals.  Would love to try the KEF’s just can’t find them in stock in the US anywhere.


----------



## Canabuc

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Moondrop doesn't necessarily develop down like that. The Aria, to my knowledge, is intended to be an evolution of the Starfield, addressing some design concerns about them in the process (chipping paint, for example). They also parts-share across their line quite a bit and I was somewhat surprised to find out that they utilized KXXS shells on the Starfield as well (ones that apparently didn't meet the polished metal spec for the KXXS).
> 
> Think of them as a company that evolves their products more than cheapens them down. Hope you enjoy them and don't feel too bad about taking a TWS break. Just don't go too nuts upgrading now as it's pretty easy to throw money away at this stage.



I think I'm about done. The money I saved from returning the MT I decided to put towards iems to see what I was missing.

This thread has made me discover my love of music as I have done a lot more listening as I tested out different buds.

Discovered a lot of great new and old music on my journey. 

I think right now in The tws space the changes are iterative. 
From 4 years ago until now the changes in battery life and sound quality and feature set is enormous. 

Last 12 months the changes have really been small. Perhaps biggest change has been that budget models are producing sound that competes with the big boys. Something that seems to have started with iems a few years ago.

As for the Aria. Crinacle and others have said they have essentially same frequency response as starfields but with better sound stage and a but less dominant ant upper mods but maybe a bit warmer low end. 
Also have a different and supposedly better cable.
May just get the bts20 for 30 or 40 so they can double as tws.
Based on the raving of the moondrop Stanfield at their price point I think I would need to scale up over 300$ to get a better resolving set and think there would be diminishing returns beyond that point.
Would sooner go cheap and get some different  chi fi models that have very different sonic signatures that play better with certain genrws though I think the Aria will be a daily driver when I don't need to go wireless.


----------



## Canabuc

pkcpga said:


> I’d skip the M&D, personally didn’t think much of them.  My favorite is the Noble Falcon Pro so far, the Grado’s I kept also, great vocals.  Would love to try the KEF’s just can’t find them in stock in the US anywhere.


Think the kef are available again directly from them on their site


----------



## jjkk88

hi everyone. i'm thinking of buying my first pair of wireless iems. looking for something comfortable and versatile. i've read some good things about the jabra elite 75, are they still worthy? or are there better alternatives for less than 100 dollars?


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

Canabuc said:


> Based on the raving of the moondrop Stanfield at their price point I think I would need to scale up over 300$ to get a better resolving set and think there would be diminishing returns beyond that point.


This part is what I'm trying to get you to avoid. You can spend years and thousands of dollars chasing something that better amplification will fix. You have two great entry-level pairs and will get far more out of improving the source than you will chasing the speakers. GIGO is a real thing.

It's also why DAPs aren't dead yet. Really hard to beat just plugging your headphones into a well-amped source. Unfortunately, there are no TWS dongles I know of to date that would be capable of giving either pair enough current to be comparable with wired performance, either. Just be prepared for the compromise.


jjkk88 said:


> hi everyone. i'm thinking of buying my first pair of wireless iems. looking for something comfortable and versatile. i've read some good things about the jabra elite 75, are they still worthy? or are there better alternatives for less than 100 dollars?


Comes down to what you're looking to get out of them. What sort of versatility are you looking for? I could throw out a blanket recommendation, but want to make sure you're happy with what you end up with. Some answers to these questions will help:

What will you primarily be listening to?
How much time will be spent on calls vs listening to music?
What equipment are you using as a source?
The EA75t are probably my favorite Jabra sound signature, but not for every genre. Bassheads will love it, but you sacrifice a good amount of detail for that fun. That may not matter to you.

I've personally found the Noble Falcon 1 (with a little EQ) to be a better all-rounder if you're genre-agnostic like me.

If call quality dominates all, though, Jabra hands down.


----------



## jjkk88

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Comes down to what you're looking to get out of them. What sort of versatility are you looking for? I could throw out a blanket recommendation, but want to make sure you're happy with what you end up with. Some answers to these questions will help:
> 
> What will you primarily be listening to?
> How much time will be spent on calls vs listening to music?
> ...


i listen to basically everything but rock/metal. the main usage will be music, calls are really secondary for me, and i'm using my phone as a source. i'm honestly not too picky about the audio quality (i figure anything around 100 dollars should sound decent), and i also value comfort, connectivy and durability a lot. 

i looked up the noble falcon but unfortunately can't find them at a good price in my country. thank you for your reply


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

jjkk88 said:


> i listen to basically everything but rock/metal. the main usage will be music, calls are really secondary for me, and i'm using my phone as a source. i'm honestly not too picky about the audio quality (i figure anything around 100 dollars should sound decent), and i also value comfort, connectivy and durability a lot.
> 
> i looked up the noble falcon but unfortunately can't find them at a good price in my country. thank you for your reply


What can you find? Probably best we start there.


----------



## FYLegend

rhsauer said:


> Soundpeats T2 default to ANC and Transparency off when powered on.


oh that's a shame, though I prefer that to ANC off as default as on the 1More ANC. How long does the case last?


----------



## jjkk88

miserybeforethemusic said:


> What can you find? Probably best we start there.


i'm planning on buying them from amazon (spain/italy/germany) so i figure most models should be available


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

jjkk88 said:


> i'm planning on buying them from amazon (spain/italy/germany) so i figure most models should be available


Of what I can think of and what's available to you, I'd probably go with the Jabra, then. Least likelihood of an issue, known quantity, and easy tuning to like. Keep in mind they did add updates to include ANC and HearThrough a while ago, so they're very feature-similar to the EA75t....to the extend I'd recommend them over the 85t unless you needed that semi-open feel or wireless charging. EQ options in-app aren't great, but there's third party options out there to fill in the gaps.


----------



## Charlyro222

I´ve just discovered an absolutely beast bt combo.
Fiio UTWS3+Campfire Audio Dorado 2020


----------



## Canabuc

miserybeforethemusic said:


> This part is what I'm trying to get you to avoid. You can spend years and thousands of dollars chasing something that better amplification will fix. You have two great entry-level pairs and will get far more out of improving the source than you will chasing the speakers. GIGO is a real thing.
> 
> It's also why DAPs aren't dead yet. Really hard to beat just plugging your headphones into a well-amped source. Unfortunately, there are no TWS dongles I know of to date that would be capable of giving either pair enough current to be comparable with wired performance, either. Just be prepared for the compromise.
> 
> ...


From what I read  themoondrops are pretty sensitive and even Amp on phone cam drive them easy so am sure the soundmagic USB dac Amp I have coming should be more than fine for them and the blon bl-01. 

I have no intention of going up in price on iem or earbuds. That was my point. I agree with you and would have to more than tried my cost to maybe hear a minuscule improvement in sound.
For now most of my music listening is streamed.  I might upgrade to a lossless or HD suncscriptiom with deeper amazon or tidal if a demo of it with these earbuds and the dac Amp with the upsacling that Samsung does via wired headphones makes a difference. 

As for tws adapters the fiio ones are amped decentlyand again should easily drive both pairs.
Investing in a Dap right now for me is pointless as I don't have the energy or time to rip my collection into lossless. And not sure my ears will see enough difference from streamed music especially the newer HD streaming options.


----------



## jant71

Luke Skywalker said:


> I still can't seem to find anywhere to buy the N10 in the USA.  I wonder what the difference between the N10 Plus and the N10 Pro are?  I love my N6Ps and wouldn't mind grabbing a pair


N10 Pro is only 5.0 not 5.2, no gaming mode, only does aptX, no Google fast pair. Different colors too but no real difference if not using above aptX or you don't care about gaming. I'd assume the N10Pro is done being made and either they have a batch to send to the U.S. or it will never come out here.


I did order this for $55 shipped unless the pre-order price guarantee kicks in and drops the price more since they come out on the 23rd.



Just for the hell of it since it is cheap. Cleer Goal is still the best sounding TWS I have but they are big Frankenstein bolts and I have never gotten used to the touch control area on them due to the size and shape of them. These will lose in SQ and win in comfort and weight and ergonomics most likely.


----------



## Canabuc

Charlyro222 said:


> I´ve just discovered an absolutely beast bt combo.
> Fiio UTWS3+Campfire Audio Dorado 2020


Thinking of ordering the fiio also. How light are they on the ears?
Given they are bluetooth do they sound like other tws or better?


----------



## Charlyro222

Canabuc said:


> Thinking of ordering the fiio also. How light are they on the ears?
> Given they are bluetooth do they sound like other tws or better?


They are very light on ears and with a tier iem, all tws are far way from that insane quality.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

Canabuc said:


> From what I read  themoondrops are pretty sensitive and even Amp on phone cam drive them easy so am sure the soundmagic USB dac Amp I have coming should be more than fine for them and the blon bl-01.
> 
> I have no intention of going up in price on iem or earbuds. That was my point. I agree with you and would have to more than tried my cost to maybe hear a minuscule improvement in sound.
> For now most of my music listening is streamed.  I might upgrade to a lossless or HD suncscriptiom with deeper amazon or tidal if a demo of it with these earbuds and the dac Amp with the upsacling that Samsung does via wired headphones makes a difference.
> ...


There's meeting the minimum sensitivity spec and then there's giving the driver adequate juice to move reliably. My experience has shown Moondrop's dynamic drivers need a good amount of current to "wake up," translating into a much less brittle upper midrange and more confident low-end. Under 50ish mW isn't enough.

Yes, they sound fine on power from a headphone out (or something like the BT20S), but the consequences of physics on these kinds of drivers are unavoidable. You're going to enjoy them plenty as is; I'm merely suggesting a next step if/when you're ready. Not trying to make you buy something else; just trying to help you steer clear of a very easy trap for wired Head-Fi enthusiasts to fall into.


----------



## Canabuc

Charlyro222 said:


> They are very light on ears and with a tier iem, all tws are far way from that insane quality.


Where you order from?do they do aptx hd?


----------



## Canabuc

miserybeforethemusic said:


> There's meeting the minimum sensitivity spec and then there's giving the driver adequate juice to move reliably. My experience has shown Moondrop's dynamic drivers need a good amount of current to "wake up," translating into a much less brittle upper midrange and more confident low-end. Under 50ish mW isn't enough.
> 
> Yes, they sound fine on power from a headphone out (or something like the BT20S), but the consequences of physics on these kinds of drivers are unavoidable. You're going to enjoy them plenty as is; I'm merely suggesting a next step if/when you're ready. Not trying to make you buy something else; just trying to help you steer clear of a very easy trap for wired Head-Fi enthusiasts to fall into.


Well the soundmagic usbc dac Amp has 30 mw at 32 ohms so figure these are 16 they are likely over 50mw.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

Canabuc said:


> Well the soundmagic usbc dac Amp has 30 mw at 32 ohms so figure these are 16 they are likely over 50mw.


Not continuously, but that's way too OT for this thread lol. Used to study driver physics when I was in my car audio days and am slowly learning how that translates to in-ear speakers. While we think the relationship is linear, there's a lot of other factors at play, namely that those power specs don't include any resistive loading and is done under controlled conditions.

It's kind of a shameless sales tactic, but something I see the community expect to see. I've seen full-on wars unfold over missing specifications (and I'm not even talking about ASR) that, in the end, turn out to be meaningless to the actual product performance.

All I'm saying is I've seen a thing or two.


----------



## Charlyro222

Canabuc said:


> Where you order from?do they do aptx hd?


You can order from Amazon or Aliexpress, both models (mmcx, 2 pin)

Ibasso Dx300 says it has got aptx-hd


----------



## Canabuc

Charlyro222 said:


> You can order from Amazon or Aliexpress, both models (mmcx, 2 pin)
> 
> Ibasso Dx300 says it has got aptx-hd


What app is showing that?


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

Canabuc said:


> What app is showing that?


Looks like the Bluetooth options for that device from the System Menu. There's another layer to that hidden under Developer Options, but this isn't it. The D.O. menu will allow you to select individual codecs and sample/bitrates (in the case of aptX(s) and LDAC).

Usually, this is done by going to your About menu and tapping on the Build Number about 5-10 times (varies by device). If you do it right, you should see a notification pop up confirming Developer Options are now available (or something similar).

This is a really useful tool to diagnose connectivity and codec issues on Android, but also a great way to significantly affect the performance of your phone. Please be careful when making these sorts of adjustments.


----------



## Canabuc

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Looks like the Bluetooth options for that device from the System Menu. There's another layer to that hidden under Developer Options, but this isn't it. The D.O. menu will allow you to select individual codecs and sample/bitrates (in the case of aptX(s) and LDAC).
> 
> Usually, this is done by going to your About menu and tapping on the Build Number about 5-10 times (varies by device). If you do it right, you should see a notification pop up confirming Developer Options are now available (or something similar).
> 
> This is a really useful tool to diagnose connectivity and codec issues on Android, but also a great way to significantly affect the performance of your phone. Please be careful when making these sorts of adjustments.


I have my developer menu but thus shows you the codec with an on off switch. Never seen that on Android.  closest was the melomania app


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

Canabuc said:


> I have my developer menu but thus shows you the codec with an on off switch. Never seen that on Android.  closest was the melomania app


Think some OSes use different menus outside of D.O. in this case. If you tap the gear icon next to the BT device in your Connected list, you should see something similar to that menu. Unfortunately, outside of vanilla Android or Oxygen OS, I can't tell you how consistent that menu is across different devices.


----------



## Canabuc

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Think some OSes use different menus outside of D.O. in this case. If you tap the gear icon next to the BT device in your Connected list, you should see something similar to that menu. Unfortunately, outside of vanilla Android or Oxygen OS, I can't tell you how consistent that menu is across different devices.


My Samsung phone has no settings like that. Developer Options let me change between available codecs but no on off switch. Good to know the fiio has apt hd as it isn't mentioned. Didn't even know was possible on 3020 chip.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

Canabuc said:


> My Samsung phone has no settings like that. Developer Options let me change between available codecs but no on off switch. Good to know the fiio has apt hd as it isn't mentioned. Didn't even know was possible on 3020 chip.


Unfortunately, that image isn't conclusive as there's still a "HD Audio" selection under AAC, which wouldn't make sense if that were the case.

If you go by the specification, though, aptX HD has a far amount of signal noise that even I wasn't that aware of. Signal purists may not admire that much, but I assume there's something about it the AKM BT modules I've used that support it. It's relatively power-inefficient as well, which would mean you'd probably only make it to a couple/few hours on each bud unless you beefed up the battery. Much easier to do with a neckband-style adapter. Not saying it's impossible to do on TWS, but I don't think the benefits outweigh the cost.


----------



## rhsauer

FYLegend said:


> oh that's a shame, though I prefer that to ANC off as default as on the 1More ANC. How long does the case last?


I'm not sure my post was clear.  IIRC, the Soundpeats T2 defaults to NORMAL (i.e., no ANC and no Transparency) when powered on.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

Realized I could just do a quick screenshot instead. Here's that same screen on my OnePlus 8T when using the AZ70W and Falcon Pro.



In my case, the HD Audio option isn't selectable from this menu (I have to go into D.O. to adjust that setting), but technically available on both codecs.


----------



## assassin10000 (Apr 18, 2021)

Canabuc said:


> Also have a different and supposedly better cable.
> May just get the bts20 for 30 or 40 so they can double as tws.


If you are going to go with more sensitive drivers, I would definitely step up to the UTWS3 as it has low output impedance. @ClieOS measured his at approx 1.5 ohms.

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/the-tws-neckband-bt-cable-adapter-thread.920709/post-16070752


The CF01 was the worst of the bunch at 20 ohms.
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/the-tws-neckband-bt-cable-adapter-thread.920709/post-15858133


Canabuc said:


> What app is showing that?


FYI that says the high definition audio codec being used is 'Apt-X', *not* 'Apt-X HD'. Gotta read the part past the '*:*'.


@cleg just posted a brief comparison vid of the BT20S, UTWS3 and CF01.


cleg said:


> I gathered all 3 most popular TWS adapters in one video, in case if someone is looking for the comparison


----------



## Jayden

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Of what I can think of and what's available to you, I'd probably go with the Jabra, then. Least likelihood of an issue, known quantity, and easy tuning to like. Keep in mind they did add updates to include ANC and HearThrough a while ago, so they're very feature-similar to the EA75t....to the extend I'd recommend them over the 85t unless you needed that semi-open feel or wireless charging. EQ options in-app aren't great, but there's third party options out there to fill in the gaps.


I have the Jabra 75T Elite for about a year now, sound with and without HearThrough is good. But sometimes the connections drop and it can get quite irritating.


----------



## FYLegend

rhsauer said:


> I'm not sure my post was clear.  IIRC, the Soundpeats T2 defaults to NORMAL (i.e., no ANC and no Transparency) when powered on.


yeah that's how it is now that I tried it. I guess it saves battery more but I prefer if things are remembered. I just find it silly the cycle is Normal - Passthrough - ANC


----------



## chinmie

Canabuc said:


> I think I'm about done. The money I saved from returning the MT I decided to put towards iems to see what I was missing.
> 
> This thread has made me discover my love of music as I have done a lot more listening as I tested out different buds.
> 
> ...



i hope you'll enjoy the Aria. I'm still using my original Kanas (not the pro version) paired with the BT20S Pro.. still one of the most enjoyable bass I've ever heard. 

some IEMs that i have, i do prefer them with my other DAC/amp as they lose some "magic" when paired with the BT20S, not that they sound bad, it's just certain dynamics are just better on my amp with those. 

some IEMs (like the Kanas) have no problem paired with dongles like the BT20S Pro


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

Jayden said:


> I have the Jabra 75T Elite for about a year now, sound with and without HearThrough is good. But sometimes the connections drop and it can get quite irritating.


I'd be irritated as well. For me, the biggest frustration is that any attempts to set up Link to reject an incoming call from interrupting me mid-conference currently do nothing. Not a good position to be in when you're the presenter.

Really need to figure that one out, but that comes with the territory of not being officially supported by the Link hardware/software suite. Can't blame Jabra for that.


----------



## bronco1015

Canabuc said:


> My Samsung phone has no settings like that. Developer Options let me change between available codecs but no on off switch. Good to know the fiio has apt hd as it isn't mentioned. Didn't even know was possible on 3020 chip.


What ever BT Adaptor you end up getting, are you planning to use it with a DAP or a phone other than your Samsung phone? IIRC, Samsung phones still don't support AP'TXHD. Before I posted this reply i did search XDA for a workaround for a few mins FWIW, no luck. however, if you have root, are using a different mod etc then I suppose anything is possible. But thought i'd ask the question, especially if it narrows anything down for you and potentially saves money etc.


----------



## FYLegend

In addition to lacking AptX HD, do the latest Snapdragon Samsung devices still not support TWS+?

*First impressions of SoundPeats T2 *are pretty good. Great fit though passive isolation is meh. Deep sub-bass, not as resonating as the Earfun Free Pro but tighter and less flabby than both the Earfun and TaoTronics 94. Mids/upper treble have some emphasis but not much treble extension. Soundstage is reasonably deep but not as wide as the Earfun Free Pro. Not really noticing any clipping issues with ANC so far, but the audio does seem to get a bit "touchy" for lack of a better word - like it's on the verge of clipping but held back by a limiter.

ANC is pretty good but rather hissy, such that after long periods of no music you'll start to think your fans are getting louder. Passive isolation is a tad mediocre with my fan in the background though. Ambient sound is pretty good but on the loud side that it will amplify background noise more than actual. Passes the piano-playing test with flying colours.


----------



## Canabuc

bronco1015 said:


> What ever BT Adaptor you end up getting, are you planning to use it with a DAP or a phone other than your Samsung phone? IIRC, Samsung phones still don't support AP'TXHD. Before I posted this reply i did search XDA for a workaround for a few mins FWIW, no luck. however, if you have root, are using a different mod etc then I suppose anything is possible. But thought i'd ask the question, especially if it narrows anything down for you and potentially saves money etc.


For now my phone unless someone can point me to a dap that is not to expensive and allows me to stream music rather than just play stored music.

Also seems none of these adapters do aptx HD yet only aptx.


----------



## Canabuc

FYLegend said:


> In addition to lacking AptX HD, do the latest Snapdragon Samsung devices still not support TWS+?
> 
> *First impressions of SoundPeats T2 *are pretty good. Great fit though passive isolation is meh. Deep sub-bass, not as resonating as the Earfun Free Pro but tighter and less flabby than both the Earfun and TaoTronics 94. Mids/upper treble have some emphasis but not much treble extension. Soundstage is reasonably deep but not as wide as the Earfun Free Pro. Not really noticing any clipping issues with ANC so far, but the audio does seem to get a bit "touchy" for lack of a better word - like it's on the verge of clipping but held back by a limiter.
> 
> ANC is pretty good but rather hissy, such that after long periods of no music you'll start to think your fans are getting louder. Passive isolation is a tad mediocre with my fan in the background though. Ambient sound is pretty good but on the loud side that it will amplify background noise more than actual. Passes the piano-playing test with flying colours.


They support tws+. Also I have not tried aptx  hd yet so don’t know if they support.


----------



## TK33

Canabuc said:


> For now my phone unless someone can point me to a dap that is not to expensive and allows me to stream music rather than just play stored music.
> 
> Also seems none of these adapters do aptx HD yet only aptx.


If it's just aptX I would stick with your phone.  My LG V60 is basically my "DAP".


----------



## blantonator

Anyone pair the KXXS with UTWS3?  I've heard the BT20 doesn't have enough power, but I read the UTWS3 has more power?


----------



## pkcpga

Canabuc said:


> For now my phone unless someone can point me to a dap that is not to expensive and allows me to stream music rather than just play stored music.
> 
> Also seems none of these adapters do aptx HD yet only aptx.


Most DAPs are going to run you at least a few hundred dollars, FiiO daps I’ve tried and own the m15 all played music streaming with WiFi.  A&K daps I’ve owned as well including a few year old one I have both streams and downloads music from Tidal or Qobuz without issue.   Not sure a cheaper dap is worth it, your phone probably has a better Bluetooth in it.  If your using the dac/amp for plug in that might be a different story.  Although dragonfly dac/amp dongle might be better then many cheap daps, I only notice a difference when you get into the ones that hit the $400-500 plus range.  Since you are paying for essentially a phone like device with a dac/amp built into it.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

blantonator said:


> Anyone pair the KXXS with UTWS3?  I've heard the BT20 doesn't have enough power, but I read the UTWS3 has more power?


Still don't think it'll generate enough current for the KXXS' dynamic driver to do a whole lot. Same issue I had when trying to run the Kanas Pro from the TRN neckband adapters. They'll work, just not as well as I'd want them to.


pkcpga said:


> Most DAPs are going to run you at least a few hundred dollars, FiiO daps I’ve tried and own the m15 all played music streaming with WiFi.  A&K daps I’ve owned as well including a few year old one I have both streams and downloads music from Tidal or Qobuz without issue.   Not sure a cheaper dap is worth it, your phone probably has a better Bluetooth in it.  If your using the dac/amp for plug in that might be a different story.  Although dragonfly dac/amp dongle might be better then many cheap daps, I only notice a difference when you get into the ones that hit the $400-500 plus range.  Since you are paying for essentially a phone like device with a dac/amp built into it.


HiBy R3 Pro/Saber and Hidisz AP80 would both be worth considering for budget solutions, but I fully understand where @Canabuc is coming from and trying to take careful steps to provide good education without also enabling them in the process.

Bruised two ribs and a pectoral muscle this weekend, so unwillingly confined to the bed for a couple days. I'll get some music therapy for sure, but wouldn't mind a little intellectual distraction here if someone's willing.

Any obscure TWS-related topics someone wants me to dig into and try to decode for the layman?


----------



## blantonator

So washed my KZ S2 TWS, which i liked for the price, and they are done. I've been reading the threads, but whats good for under $150 if I can't use the UTWS3 with my KXXS?


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

blantonator said:


> So washed my KZ S2 TWS, which i liked for the price, and they are done. I've been reading the threads, but whats good for under $150 if I can't use the UTWS3 with my KXXS?


What sort of sound signature are you looking for, what control/communication features are must-haves or must-nots?


----------



## SilverEars (Apr 19, 2021)

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Still don't think it'll generate enough current for the KXXS' dynamic driver to do a whole lot. Same issue I had when trying to run the Kanas Pro from the TRN neckband adapters. They'll work, just not as well as I'd want them to.


I have the Kanas Pro, and that is true.  It sounds better when driven from higher current source.  Something with a stronger driveability than a typical smartphone.

This is usually the case with dynamic drivers.

This is why I always had suspicition of TWS with dynic drivers not being driven to full potential.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

SilverEars said:


> I have the Kanas Pro, and that is true.  It sounds better when driven from higher current source.  Something with a stronger driveability than a typical smartphone.
> 
> This is usually the case with dynamic drivers.
> 
> This is why I always had suspicition of TWS with dynic drivers not being driven to full potential.


Wholeheartedly agree. Wish the idea of all BAs being super efficient were true as well, but you know what they say about absolutes.


----------



## regancipher

rhsauer said:


> I'm not sure my post was clear.  IIRC, the Soundpeats T2 defaults to NORMAL (i.e., no ANC and no Transparency) when powered on.


Yep, just reviewed them and they and the 75t default to normal


----------



## regancipher

FYLegend said:


> In addition to lacking AptX HD, do the latest Snapdragon Samsung devices still not support TWS+?
> 
> *First impressions of SoundPeats T2 *are pretty good. Great fit though passive isolation is meh. Deep sub-bass, not as resonating as the Earfun Free Pro but tighter and less flabby than both the Earfun and TaoTronics 94. Mids/upper treble have some emphasis but not much treble extension. Soundstage is reasonably deep but not as wide as the Earfun Free Pro. Not really noticing any clipping issues with ANC so far, but the audio does seem to get a bit "touchy" for lack of a better word - like it's on the verge of clipping but held back by a limiter.
> 
> ANC is pretty good but rather hissy, such that after long periods of no music you'll start to think your fans are getting louder. Passive isolation is a tad mediocre with my fan in the background though. Ambient sound is pretty good but on the loud side that it will amplify background noise more than actual. Passes the piano-playing test with flying colours.


My full review here too


----------



## blantonator

miserybeforethemusic said:


> What sort of sound signature are you looking for, what control/communication features are must-haves or must-nots?



I overall like the KXXS warm signature but would like a bit more airyness and clarity/detail.  Standard bluetooth fuction is fine, ANC would be a bonus.  I thought KZ S2 would pretty good sound for $30, but build quality was a bit low and couldn't fit foam eartips in the case.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

blantonator said:


> I overall like the KXXS warm signature but would like a bit more airyness and clarity/detail.  Standard bluetooth fuction is fine, ANC would be a bonus.  I thought KZ S2 would pretty good sound for $30, but build quality was a bit low and couldn't fit foam eartips in the case.


So perhaps more instrument separation and a cleaner midrange? How are you with the KXXS' bass response?


----------



## blantonator (Apr 19, 2021)

miserybeforethemusic said:


> So perhaps more instrument separation and a cleaner midrange? How are you with the KXXS' bass response?


Exactly.  I think the lack of seperation and detail limits the sound stage a bit.  Bass is fine; the KZ had a bit more impact, but I think the KXXS has more depth.  I have it slightly EQ'd up on my ES100.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

blantonator said:


> It's fine.  the KZ had a bit more impact, but I think the KXXS has more depth.  I have it slightly EQ'd up on my ES100.


I have similar listening notes. MD's bass representation is more neutral when compared to KZ's house sound.

I don't like to recommend stuff I haven't personally run, but you may end up quite happy with the Status Between Pro. Unfortunately, I'm still waiting on mine to show up, so can't speak on first-hand experience as to just how much of a difference the additional BAs or Status' tuning choice makes. If it's remotely close to a budget version of the Noble Falcon Pro, though...

Try to ignore the aesthetics at first, but the Kinera YH802 might be an interesting pair to mess with if you've already tried KZ's TWS. Seems like they do a lot of fun tunings as well and you'll certainly have a conversation piece since every pair is hand-painted.

Of what I've tried, the JBL Club Pro+ is the closest to Moondrop single-DD sound I've come across. It's also currently $50 over your max, unfortunately. If you can stretch just a little more, that's what I would suggest for you. Checks off the most boxes, at least.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

BT20s Pro is on sale today at TRN's official AE store. Looks like the adapters are as well. One more day left, but current pricing is $55 before coupons and adapters for any other connectors you'd need are just over $7 a pop. Would be a good time to buy for those who were interested.


----------



## Luke Skywalker

Canabuc said:


> Think the kef are available again directly from them on their site


thanks might order a pair for my non-audiophile buddy. he's never heard anything other than "gas station" quality audio equipment (those $3 buds they have next to the energy drinks)


----------



## potix

I've been trying freebuds pro this afternoon. Way too much low frequencies and lack of highs. After eqing them in wavelet they sound better but they are so thin, unatural and weaker in clarity compared to AZ70. The only pro is they are much more comfortable to wear, Technics are a pain, even though I tweaked them with azla shorts and some sponge and now they are more glued. Azlas cause irritation to my ears (as well as spinfits) so I tried washing them with soap and cleaning with alcohol, and it got better.
Maybe I should get rid of both and wait for something else


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

Luke Skywalker said:


> thanks might order a pair for my non-audiophile buddy. he's never heard anything other than "gas station" quality audio equipment (those $3 buds they have next to the energy drinks)


You're going to make his brain short-circuit. I did something similar with the Soundcore Q30 and a friend of mine. Plan to let him demo the NFP and DK-3001 Pro next time they're over.

It's fun to share, but it's a little like taking the red pill. No going back, at least not for me.


potix said:


> I've been trying freebuds pro this afternoon. Way too much low frequencies and lack of highs. After eqing them in wavelet they sound better but they are so thin, unatural and weaker in clarity compared to AZ70. The only pro is they are much more comfortable to wear, Technics are a pain, even though I tweaked them with azla shorts and some sponge and now they are more glued. Azlas cause irritation to my ears (as well as spinfits) so I tried washing them with soap and cleaning with alcohol, and it got better.
> Maybe I should get rid of both and wait for something else


The AZ70W may have spoiled you a bit too much with its brightness-done-right tuning. Man, that thing is so technically good.

You might have to go Noble, bud. I'm having a hard time thinking of anything else that's comparable on technicalities and that sort of upper-midrange clarity. I'm in a similar boat to you where a lot of the DD tunings within these TWS isn't very well-controlled. Maybe those ADV M5 would be up your alley as I seem to remember Japanese tunings meet your goals a little more consistently.

On the tips, though, I used to have the same irritation issues. Went on a sabbatical and now I can at least use SFs where I couldn't before, but my ears prefer the Final E TWS ones by a country mile. They just never seem to irritate. Still waiting on the AZLA, but I'll be sure to comment if my experience echoes yours.


----------



## Canabuc

potix said:


> I've been trying freebuds pro this afternoon. Way too much low frequencies and lack of highs. After eqing them in wavelet they sound better but they are so thin, unatural and weaker in clarity compared to AZ70. The only pro is they are much more comfortable to wear, Technics are a pain, even though I tweaked them with azla shorts and some sponge and now they are more glued. Azlas cause irritation to my ears (as well as spinfits) so I tried washing them with soap and cleaning with alcohol, and it got better.
> Maybe I should get rid of both and wait for something else


Agree the treble is rolled off but it is no more low than any other tws outside the Technics or Sony. It is a very mids centred sound with good bass.
My equing I turn down from 200 to 500 1  db
And turn up 1k 1 db and 4k through 16k about 3 db.


----------



## potix

miserybeforethemusic said:


> You're going to make his brain short-circuit. I did something similar with the Soundcore Q30 and a friend of mine. Plan to let him demo the NFP and DK-3001 Pro next time they're over.
> 
> It's fun to share, but it's a little like taking the red pill. No going back, at least not for me.
> 
> ...


Maybe you are right   but to be honest I don't know if japanese sound is my way, these just make me feel good when I listen to music with them probably because they awaken some memories. I tend to prefer british signature but leaving out tuning, the freebuds don't sound "almost-hi-fi" as az70s do, to my ears: the bass itself is louder but less tight (eq'd or not), strings are muffled, cymbals are fuzzy etc... It's a small thing because huaweis sound good after all and I could prefer them for practicality.
Nobles were my first choice 3 months ago, but here in Europe are expensive and now that I know of their v-shape I wouldn't risk.
Didn't know of ADV M5, they look sweet but without audio passthrough is a no-go.
I'll probably keep technics waiting for the upcoming sony tws.


Canabuc said:


> Agree the treble is rolled off but it is no more low than any other tws outside the Technics or Sony. It is a very mids centred sound with good bass.
> My equing I turn down from 200 to 500 1  db
> And turn up 1k 1 db and 4k through 16k about 3 db.


You would shiver if I told you how much I turned up and down  and they are still darker than az70s.


----------



## diimaan

A question for FiiO UTWS3 users! Does it has sufficient juice to drive Sony XBA-N3's?

Sony's are not demanding but still!


----------



## pkcpga

potix said:


> Maybe you are right   but to be honest I don't know if japanese sound is my way, these just make me feel good when I listen to music with them probably because they awaken some memories. I tend to prefer british signature but leaving out tuning, the freebuds don't sound "almost-hi-fi" as az70s do, to my ears: the bass itself is louder but less tight (eq'd or not), strings are muffled, cymbals are fuzzy etc... It's a small thing because huaweis sound good after all and I could prefer them for practicality.
> Nobles were my first choice 3 months ago, but here in Europe are expensive and now that I know of their v-shape I wouldn't risk.
> Didn't know of ADV M5, they look sweet but without audio passthrough is a no-go.
> I'll probably keep technics waiting for the upcoming sony tws.
> ...


Only thing with the Noble Falcon Pro is they are hybrid drivers and take EQing very well and the app for them has a great EQ with 10 sliders.  The Noble app gives you 3 spots to save your EQs.  I created 2 different EQs depending on what I’m listening to and the last spot for when I’m working out when I actually want the bass boost.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

potix said:


> Maybe you are right   but to be honest I don't know if japanese sound is my way, these just make me feel good when I listen to music with them probably because they awaken some memories. I tend to prefer british signature but leaving out tuning, the freebuds don't sound "almost-hi-fi" as az70s do, to my ears: the bass itself is louder but less tight (eq'd or not), strings are muffled, cymbals are fuzzy etc... It's a small thing because huaweis sound good after all and I could prefer them for practicality.
> Nobles were my first choice 3 months ago, but here in Europe are expensive and now that I know of their v-shape I wouldn't risk.
> Didn't know of ADV M5, they look sweet but without audio passthrough is a no-go.
> I'll probably keep technics waiting for the upcoming sony tws.
> ...


Hah I didn't know about the ADV either until I went on a hunt to see who in the CIEM world was willing to give them a shot. Now Custom Art is getting into the game as well, but I digress.

Keep in mind that in my referring to a V with the Noble, it's relative to the listening volume as well. They're just remarkably detailed, even at low volume, and that something I usually only find in stuff with V-shaped sound signatures. It's not like someone made a smiley face with the 10-band EQ, if you catch my drift (I swear I never did that to my parents...they were checkmarks, thank you). Just based on what you've liked so far, I thought it checked a lot of the boxes. No harm if that's a dealbreaker, though. You do get passthrough, after all


----------



## pkcpga

diimaan said:


> A question for FiiO UTWS3 users! Does it has sufficient juice to drive Sony XBA-N3's?
> 
> Sony's are not demanding but still!


I really wanted the FiiO UTWS3’s that I overpaid for them on eBay, got them, was very disappointed.  They are only 25mW at 16ohm and for any hybrid driver iem that’s not enough power.  And for many multi driver or larger driver iem’s they really need 50mW minimum and with a dongle dac/amp or dap they are usually using 50-150mW.  They are fairly light and comfortable but offer less power then many TWS, Noble, Sennheiser, KEF and Grado are all 50mW.  And Hifiman tws800 is 150ohm at 50mW.  I found the FiiO can produce a loud enough sound, it’s just a very thin sound.  The FiiO doesn’t have enough power to make any of my IEMs sound dynamic with the exception of a friends campfire audio andromeda which is very sensitive and has very low power requirements. Unfortunately the FiiO even fails with those since it creates a hissing sound that doesn’t going away when music is playing.  Andromeda are very sensitive and are prone to noise floors easily.  I personally wouldn’t waste my money on them unless you have an efficient iem that isn’t sensitive.  I’m going to try the fostex next, finally heard back from Fostex and they are 50mW at 32ohms.  The Fostex seem to be used by Ultimate Ears for their custom IEMs for a wireless option.


----------



## Canabuc

potix said:


> Maybe you are right   but to be honest I don't know if japanese sound is my way, these just make me feel good when I listen to music with them probably because they awaken some memories. I tend to prefer british signature but leaving out tuning, the freebuds don't sound "almost-hi-fi" as az70s do, to my ears: the bass itself is louder but less tight (eq'd or not), strings are muffled, cymbals are fuzzy etc... It's a small thing because huaweis sound good after all and I could prefer them for practicality.
> Nobles were my first choice 3 months ago, but here in Europe are expensive and now that I know of their v-shape I wouldn't risk.
> Didn't know of ADV M5, they look sweet but without audio passthrough is a no-go.
> I'll probably keep technics waiting for the upcoming sony tws.
> ...


Of course they are darker. They are tuned in the opposite directions. The Technics are more of a bright signature with not enough low end. Freebuds pro have nice warm bottom ( not that kind!) And clear natural mids but the treble is rolled off to early.


----------



## FYLegend

regancipher said:


> My full review here too


yeah that's quite spot-on!

This morning I had started noticing a bit of buzzy hiss on the left bud after a long listening session. It's quite subtle similar to what I experienced on the TaoTronics 94 and might have been linked to the kind of background noise around me. Another issue is that on Windows 10 there is sometimes a channel delay when initiating music, I've experienced this a lot with Qualcomm devices but on Bluetooth speakers it manifests as losing a second of playback at the start. Also, double-tapping the right bud doesn't always play/pause like on the left bud.


----------



## Caipirina

So, what else is everyone now waiting for? 
i think for me it would be the Sony WF1000XM4 and if all goes well I might get a chance to try the KEF in September ... still curious, though I noticed that all my TWS in main rotation are rather semi open, not IEM. These are my current main babies:
Bose QC buds are tied with Jabra 85t
Then Galaxy buds live and AirPods Pro
And for running Sabbath X12 and the old Bose SSF. I still won’t dare trying the QC buds for running, despite rocking the same ipx4 as the SSF ...


----------



## JES (Apr 20, 2021)

potix said:


> I've been trying freebuds pro this afternoon. Way too much low frequencies and lack of highs. After eqing them in wavelet they sound better but they are so thin, unatural and weaker in clarity compared to AZ70. The only pro is they are much more comfortable to wear, Technics are a pain, even though I tweaked them with azla shorts and some sponge and now they are more glued. Azlas cause irritation to my ears (as well as spinfits) so I tried washing them with soap and cleaning with alcohol, and it got better.
> Maybe I should get rid of both and wait for something else


My eq for Earfun Free Pro. I only use them when working out. Don't judge me. _edit: SpinFit CP360_


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

Caipirina said:


> So, what else is everyone now waiting for?
> i think for me it would be the Sony WF1000XM4 and if all goes well I might get a chance to try the KEF in September ... still curious, though I noticed that all my TWS in main rotation are rather semi open, not IEM. These are my current main babies:
> Bose QC buds are tied with Jabra 85t
> Then Galaxy buds live and AirPods Pro
> And for running Sabbath X12 and the old Bose SSF. I still won’t dare trying the QC buds for running, despite rocking the same ipx4 as the SSF ...


Honestly? Give me something with the midrange-up of the Technics with approximately the low-end of the Falcon and I'll be all smiles.

Otherwise, still waiting for the Edifier TWS1 Pro and Status Between Pro. I feel like I'm never going to get those Edifiers...


----------



## dweaver (Apr 20, 2021)

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Honestly? Give me something with the midrange-up of the Technics with approximately the low-end of the Falcon and I'll be all smiles.
> 
> Otherwise, still waiting for the Edifier TWS1 Pro and Status Between Pro. I feel like I'm never going to get those Edifiers...


I hope for the same from the Status Between Pro.


----------



## Luchyres

Caipirina said:


> So, what else is everyone now waiting for?
> i think for me it would be the Sony WF1000XM4 and if all goes well I might get a chance to try the KEF in September ... still curious, though I noticed that all my TWS in main rotation are rather semi open, not IEM. These are my current main babies:
> Bose QC buds are tied with Jabra 85t
> Then Galaxy buds live and AirPods Pro
> And for running Sabbath X12 and the old Bose SSF. I still won’t dare trying the QC buds for running, despite rocking the same ipx4 as the SSF ...



JBL Tour Pro + for me is going to be worth a purchase. (Pending reviews)


----------



## jant71

FreeBuds 4i. 10 hour battery(ANC off) and 4 hours with a 10 minute quick charge $100. Touted as bringing high level ANC and good SQ to the $100 mark. Coming next month.



> Caipirina said:
> 
> 
> So, what else is everyone now waiting for?
> ...


Think, after the N10 Pro and now Plus experience under their belt the Nuarl X77, or whatever the final nam,e will be solid and worth a try.


----------



## SemiAudiophile

Some new toys just came in...


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

SemiAudiophile said:


> Some new toys just came in...


Ooh! Aaaand?


----------



## Canabuc

SemiAudiophile said:


> Some new toys just came in...


Which model are those?


----------



## SemiAudiophile (Apr 20, 2021)

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Ooh! Aaaand?


The BT20S pro and EST 112 are surprisingly a very good match. My initial gripes about the BT20S pro is that there's no volume control though. The P1's don't get loud enough to even give them a decent listen. The case is also way too shallow to be able to hold any IEMs inside. And why in the world would they put right ear piece on the left and vice versa beats me???

They drive the ZAX and B2 Dusk just ok. Not great but serviceable. Keep in mind I only had a few hours maybe minutes with each of them though and I'm also using mmcx to 2-pin adapters for some of them so not sure if that affects sound quality.

It still sounds pretty darn good with the ZAX and I don't think it's fault of codec but due to proper amplification. Where it mainly loses tightness and control in the bass region and dynamics.

But so far, pretty darn happy with the BT20S pro and EST 112 combo. 👍 This combo could be my daily driver for sure. Oh yeah, and the freedom of not being tied to any wires is just so nice. 😁


----------



## erockg

SemiAudiophile said:


> The BT20S pro and EST 112 are surprisingly a very good match. My initial gripes about the BT20S pro is that there's no volume control though. The P1's don't get loud enough to even give them a decent listen. The case is also way too shallow to be able to hold any IEMs inside. And why in the world would they put right ear piece on the left and vice versa beats me???
> 
> They drive the ZAX and B2 Dusk just ok. Not great but serviceable. Keep in mind I only had a few hours maybe minutes with each of them though and I'm also using mmcx to 2-pin adapters for some of them so not sure if that affects sound quality.
> 
> ...


Welcome aboard.  Love mine.  Using them with the Blessing 2's every day.


----------



## bronco1015

Canabuc said:


> For now my phone unless someone can point me to a dap that is not to expensive and allows me to stream music rather than just play stored music.
> 
> Also seems none of these adapters do aptx HD yet only aptx.


Nice. That takes care of that then. I thought there was an adaptor from 64 Audio and one from FiiO that had APTXHD but neither here nor there since you'll be using it with your phone. Either way, not a bad route to go. I only have the Shure TW1 but i like using it from time to time.


----------



## FYLegend

Soundpeats T2 battery life  - The case only lasted me 2 days of "heavy" use (5-6 hours per day mainly with ambient mode and ANC), while the earbuds themselves barely ever go below 90%. Once the case is close to being depleted the earbuds will remain powered on - high pitched sounds happen because ambient mode is causing mic feedback (this happens on my Galaxy Buds+ when the case is open, but not on the TaoTronics 94). Fortunately unlike the Taotronics you can manually power them on and off, though you must power on the earbuds individually.


----------



## samandhi

I am dying to get my hands on the Fiio UTWS3 but alas, it is STILL unavailable on Amazon, Aliexpress, etc.. here in the US Shenzhenaudio still shows that it is pre-order. On Fiio (America) official site when clicking on the "buy" button, it takes me to Aliexpress where it says this product is no longer available. I can find it on Ebay, but I will not overpay by $30 (or more).


----------



## EvilJesus

A couple of weeks ago I picked up the T5II for half price (silver only?) and WOW. I primarily listen to rock and metal and these sound amazing. I'm starting to love these more than my MW07s. Never thought TW earbuds could get this good. Actually using TW more than my over ear collection as of late.


----------



## C_Lindbergh (Apr 21, 2021)

https://www.whathifi.com/news/bower...-become-bandws-first-true-wireless-headphones

Can't see anything on B&Ws website tho...

No matter how good they sound, the price to battery life ratio is just abmysal. :/

Imagine paying 400$ for a pair of tws with a mere 4 hours of battery life.

"There's more to the PI7's charging case than just storage and battery life, too. Uniquely, it has USB and 3.5mm ports, allowing you to connect it direct to an audio source. The case sends that music to your ears wirelessly using AptX Low Latency. 

I wonder if this would work with a PC/TV? If so then this feature is really awesome. 

I just can't get over the extremely poor battery life...real life battery life is usually a bit worse than the official battery life.


----------



## SemiAudiophile (Apr 21, 2021)

samandhi said:


> I am dying to get my hands on the Fiio UTWS3 but alas, it is STILL unavailable on Amazon, Aliexpress, etc.. here in the US Shenzhenaudio still shows that it is pre-order. On Fiio (America) official site when clicking on the "buy" button, it takes me to Aliexpress where it says this product is no longer available. I can find it on Ebay, but I will not overpay by $30 (or more).


Shenzhen audio and HiFiGo are going by waiting list AFAIK. Need to pre-order in order to get on that list. Last update I heard was supposedly some new stock coming in mid-April. Still waiting for my shipping confirmation though...

BT20S pro and B2 Dusk is pretty good match too. Battery life seems pretty good so far and no connection issues.

On another note, EST 112 have really excellent bass. Some of the best bass I've heard on any headphone; quantity and quality wise. Great impact, super tight, great definition and textures. Not overdone. Very tasteful. Blends in nicely. Soundstage is also excellent, nice and 3D. Very realistic and not artificially wide. Imaging is fantastic as well as separation. I usually have to close my eyes and imagine where the instruments are, but with these it's effortless.


----------



## Burakk

Hi all, I was expecting from Apple to announce AirPods 3 but not happened. Could you please suggest what is the best one for know without considering the price ? I would like to use it daily use case, comfort , mic performans and very well done  hear through ( like AirPods Max) would be important to me. I don't mind isolation, I wasn't happy with my AirPods Pro just because pressure feeling.


----------



## tinyman392

C_Lindbergh said:


> https://www.whathifi.com/news/bower...-become-bandws-first-true-wireless-headphones
> 
> Can't see anything on B&Ws website tho...
> 
> ...


The product is definitely real since I got the press release. The 3.5mm pass through you talk about is designed for airplanes and other non-BT things. I don’t know exactly how it works but their description makes it seem like it plugs into the case and the case relays the audio through Bluetooth to the TWS. Feature only looks like it’s available on the PI7.


----------



## Thesonofkrypton

Out of curiosity will probably pick up the PI5... maybe 7


----------



## C_Lindbergh (Apr 21, 2021)

The battery life is so freaking bad on these new B&W tws, especially the P17...

"
PI7 ear buds:


Bowers & Wilkins PI7 ear buds will last for up to 3.5 hours from a full charge when streaming via Bluetooth at an average playback volume" You get a mere 3.5 hours from listning to an average playback volume? That's like gen 1 true wireless right there 

https://support-uk.bowerswilkins.co...qRktPdjBCdkJibVlMM1NfSHNfbTlxYlAzeThRJTIxJTIx

What on earth were they thinking?

There's also no volume control or Ambient Mode control (need to use the app).

The transmitting ability of the case seems pretty awesome tho, but given the other 2 major disadvantages it's not enough. I just don't see why anyone would pay 400 EUR's for a pair of tws with a battery life that we saw when tws were first launched.


----------



## Thesonofkrypton

Yeah the battery life is pretty poor as far as today's standards go.  They're gunning for all out sound quality in a TWS and there's only so much you can cram in I guess, hence the poor battery life.  The one review I read seems to state these are the best sounding pair out there.  Haven't seen a review of the PI5 - if anyone sees one can they link it here pls? I don't mind paying PI5 price if they sound decent, but perhaps not the PI7 retail price.


----------



## tiagopinto

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Still don't think it'll generate enough current for the KXXS' dynamic driver to do a whole lot. Same issue I had when trying to run the Kanas Pro from the TRN neckband adapters. They'll work, just not as well as I'd want them to.
> 
> HiBy R3 Pro/Saber and Hidisz AP80 would both be worth considering for budget solutions, but I fully understand where @Canabuc is coming from and trying to take careful steps to provide good education without also enabling them in the process.
> 
> ...



Get well soon, cheers!


----------



## tiagopinto (Apr 21, 2021)

C_Lindbergh said:


> https://www.whathifi.com/news/bower...-become-bandws-first-true-wireless-headphones
> 
> Can't see anything on B&Ws website tho...
> 
> ...



This is just ridiculous. I’m sorry but... 4hrs! Maybe with LE Audio it can be fixed (assuming Apple will incorporate the tech in iOS, which is the only way it would work for me anyway). But that’s their next model, not this one.

I’m really curious about real life reviews. But definitely not a wagon I’m jumping into. Way too expensive anyway.


----------



## tiagopinto (Apr 21, 2021)

tiagopinto said:


> TWS choices...
> 
> KEF Mu3 (200€) maybe but would have to listen. I like the descriptions I’ve read
> 
> ...





miserybeforethemusic said:


> I'll do the NFP comparison; others can comment on the Grado, M&D (won't assume the MW07 GO and MW08 are sonically the same), and KEF.
> 
> The NFP has the potential to knock your socks off in sound and, since you're running iOS won't have to deal with the codec issues I did. Where the MT has a very robust midbass, there's barely any perceivable bloom on the NFP to notice. Slight difference in tuning choices; it's what you'll tend to find with V-shaped material. Trick is realizing that those types of signatures need compensation via EQ if you're planning to crank them up often; in that case, I would suggest that it's required, not just needed. Wish I could give you a bigger thumb rule than that, but seems like a lot of that energy is between 6k and 8k and the in-app EQ is pretty responsive and knocking those down a little bit.
> 
> Did I mention they're one of the few pairs I have where the stock tips do just fine, by the way? Those E-Pro horns are great.



Can I press you, or anyone else, on a thorough comparison between the MT and the other few I mentioned?

If I can’t wait long enough for LE Audio and LC3, I want the possibility of a step up in SQ, if the step up in price justifies it.

The must-have extras besides a good secure fit are ANC and Ambient modes. The nice-to-haves are decent battery and Qi charging.

The reason I wrote “probable” next to the MW08 is because of their “displaced” buttons. I could do without touch controls (although I still somewhat like it) but I probably couldn’t stand for in-line buttons (my recent experience with the Tevi made sure I don’t want to uncomfortably push the buds inside).

Other recommendations are more than welcome. Thanks again.


----------



## clerkpalmer (Apr 21, 2021)

I was about to pull the trigger on the PI7.  I have the MW08 en route which would probably have to be returned but man that battery life is garbage and that's best case scenario at medium volume.  Reminds me of the original MW07 which promised "up to 3.5 hours" but in reality got like 2 and thats before degradation sets in.  That really can't happen in 2021.  I don't mind paying big bucks for the best but I am pausing on this until I see more information.  Also the black ones appear to be sold out?  The white and gold is too much bling for me.    It appears aptx adaptive requires certain hardware and is not cross compatible with an aptx enabled phone? that's a bummer as well.

Edit- whelp the sickness got the best of me.  Black became available so I ordered.  I'm here to be the guinea pig for everyone.  I'd say there's a 50/50 chance that I'll keep them but curiosity got the cat for sure.  The battery life is likely a deal breaker ultimately.  Not even usable for a short domestic flight.


----------



## bubsdaddy

"With Bowers & Wilkins’ new PI7 truly wireless earbuds, you can enjoy what is arguably a more comfortable way to block out the endless whine of a plane’s engines, while still enjoying a seat-back entertainment system. The USB-C port on the bottom of the PI7's wireless charging case also accept a 3.5mm to USB-C adapter cable, meaning it can be plugged into nearly any device in existence that has a headphone jack, and the sound will be wirelessly streamed to the earbuds."

This is a wonderful feature for those who travel often - like I did pre-pandemic. I hope other manufacturers begin adding this feature.


----------



## clerkpalmer

Help me understand this:

"B&W has also included an excellent feature that means high-quality audio is more accessible than ever if you're using the PI7. It comes with a USB-C-to-USB-C cable and a 3.5mm-to-USB-C cable in the box. You can use either of these to plug the PI7's case into a computer or analogue audio source, effectively as a wireless adapter. The case will then send sound to the headphones over aptX LL (so: CD-quality audio).


This is a great feature not just for convenience (use them with your Nintendo Switch! Or with plane entertainment systems!), but also for improving the quality of wireless audio from something like a MacBook Air, if you have high-quality files or use a hi-fi-friendly streaming service."

If I am reading this correctly, you can use the case as a bridge to stream hi res files (i.e. no need for Aptx Adaptive).  The author references a macbook or an analogue source but why couldn't I just use this on an iPhoneor any android phone with a headphone jack?  Couldn't I go USB-C to USB-C and stream Qobuz?  Would that get me high res files?  If so, that's pretty cool.  What am I missing? It' may not be an ideal on the go setup but it seems useful for sure.


----------



## tinyman392

clerkpalmer said:


> Help me understand this:
> 
> "B&W has also included an excellent feature that means high-quality audio is more accessible than ever if you're using the PI7. It comes with a USB-C-to-USB-C cable and a 3.5mm-to-USB-C cable in the box. You can use either of these to plug the PI7's case into a computer or analogue audio source, effectively as a wireless adapter. The case will then send sound to the headphones over aptX LL (so: CD-quality audio).
> 
> ...


I have no clue what codec/format/spec B&W will be using for the wireless audio through the case transfer. It might be a standard BT protocol it could be a proprietary one. I’m curious about lag though.


----------



## alsorkin

clerkpalmer said:


> I was about to pull the trigger on the PI7.  I have the MW08 en route which would probably have to be returned but man that battery life is garbage and that's best case scenario at medium volume.  Reminds me of the original MW07 which promised "up to 3.5 hours" but in reality got like 2 and thats before degradation sets in.  That really can't happen in 2021.  I don't mind paying big bucks for the best but I am pausing on this until I see more information.  Also the black ones appear to be sold out?  The white and gold is too much bling for me.    It appears aptx adaptive requires certain hardware and is not cross compatible with an aptx enabled phone? that's a bummer as well.
> 
> Edit- whelp the sickness got the best of me.  Black became available so I ordered.  I'm here to be the guinea pig for everyone.  I'd say there's a 50/50 chance that I'll keep them but curiosity got the cat for sure.  The battery life is likely a deal breaker ultimately.  Not even usable for a short domestic flight.


The APTX can do APTX HD and connect to the charging case which will also do HD if source is good and within 10ft according to B&W support I talked with today.


----------



## clerkpalmer

tinyman392 said:


> I have no clue what codec/format/spec B&W will be using for the wireless audio through the case transfer. It might be a standard BT protocol it could be a proprietary one. I’m curious about lag though.


The article says the case uses Aptx LL to communicate with the headphones.  So effectively, you can stream Hi Res over an iPhone if you use the case as a bridge unless I am misunderstanding.  Seems like Cnet kind of missed the boat on this feature.  It's more than an airplane adapter.


----------



## clerkpalmer

alsorkin said:


> The APTX can do APTX HD and connect to the charging case which will also do HD if source is good and within 10ft according to B&W support I talked with today.


yeah, that's pretty awesome and has definitely upped my excitement level a bit.  This means (I think) true hi res is achievable from basically any device if you use the case as the bridge.  Not quite the same as on board AptxhD or LDAC but certainly innovative in the TWS space.


----------



## clerkpalmer

Since Aptx adaptive includes AptxHD does that mean this includes AptxHD as a standalone codec? Clear as mud.


----------



## Thesonofkrypton

I'm surprised at my own self control today, decided to wait for more reviews of the PI5 and PI7 first before I even think of ordering.  Don't want any nasty surprises like with the MT.


----------



## TK33

tinyman392 said:


> The product is definitely real since I got the press release. The 3.5mm pass through you talk about is designed for airplanes and other non-BT things. I don’t know exactly how it works but their description makes it seem like it plugs into the case and the case relays the audio through Bluetooth to the TWS. Feature only looks like it’s available on the PI7.


Agree, definitely real.  Got emails to preorder today as well.  Looks like some retailers previously jumped the gun when the product had not been officially released yet and had to pull the pages.


----------



## TK33

Thesonofkrypton said:


> Yeah the battery life is pretty poor as far as today's standards go.  They're gunning for all out sound quality in a TWS and there's only so much you can cram in I guess, hence the poor battery life.  The one review I read seems to state these are the best sounding pair out there.  Haven't seen a review of the PI5 - if anyone sees one can they link it here pls? I don't mind paying PI5 price if they sound decent, but perhaps not the PI7 retail price.


Good to see some aprX adaptive TWS and not just aptX, AAC or SBC (Android user here). My guess is that poor battery life is probably one of the reasons why we don't really see TWS with LDAC or many others with aptX HD or adaptive.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

clerkpalmer said:


> Since Aptx adaptive includes AptxHD does that mean this includes AptxHD as a standalone codec? Clear as mud.


Still has to be supported by the host device and it's weird. My phone can support all the codecs, but I can't make the NFP go into aptX HD. It's either Adaptive or normal.


----------



## clerkpalmer

TK33 said:


> Agree, definitely real.  Got emails to preorder today as well.  Looks like some retailers previously jumped the gun when the product had not been officially released yet and had to pull the pages.


If you order from B&W direct it appears to be available now? It doesn’t say it’s a preorder so I’m hoping for a quick shipment.


----------



## clerkpalmer

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Still has to be supported by the host device and it's weird. My phone can support all the codecs, but I can't make the NFP go into aptX HD. It's either Adaptive or normal.


Yeah okay that’s what I figured. So virtually no mainstream phone supports adaptive atm (one plus being the exception) but the bridge with the case will be fine for my intended use.


----------



## Aevum (Apr 21, 2021)

learned my lesson from the AKG N400, having them sound good is nice, having them actually function properly is better.
Im currently quite satisfied with my freebuds pro and if the next sonys have LDAC or APTX i´ll consider it. 

Im going to sit this one out,


----------



## clerkpalmer

Aevum said:


> learned my lesson from the AKG N400, having them sound good is nice, having them actually function properly is better.
> 
> Im going to sit this one out,


I actually rediscovered mine recently and love the sound. As far as the comparison to B&W, I don’t think it’s fair at this time. There is zero evidence the B&W don’t function properly. None of the reviews have mentioned any gremlins.


----------



## TK33

clerkpalmer said:


> Yeah okay that’s what I figured. So virtually no mainstream phone supports adaptive atm (one plus being the exception) but the bridge with the case will be fine for my intended use.


V60 does too.  I found that out when my Qudelix 5K kept connecting via aptX adaptive instead of LDAC.  Had to disable adaptive on the 5K to get LDAC to work with my V60.


----------



## TK33

clerkpalmer said:


> If you order from B&W direct it appears to be available now? It doesn’t say it’s a preorder so I’m hoping for a quick shipment.


Got it.  I had gotten an email from Audio46 earlier today.  Didnt realize you pulled the trigger.  Did you get the PI7? Look forward to hearing your impressions.


----------



## clerkpalmer

TK33 said:


> Got it.  I had gotten an email from Audio46 earlier today.  Didnt realize you pulled the trigger.  Did you get the PI7? Look forward to hearing your impressions.


We will see when they ship. The website didn’t say anything about a preorder. Seems like a trend to sell the first batch direct before distributing to retail partners.

Yes, pi7. Go big or go home.


----------



## TK33

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Still has to be supported by the host device and it's weird. My phone can support all the codecs, but I can't make the NFP go into aptX HD. It's either Adaptive or normal.


Is this your One Plus 8T? I have that phone as well and it does seem buggy (first time in a very long time that I have not had a Samsung phone and not too impressed to be honest).  As noted before, I had a similar problem with my 5K and V60 with LDAC (it preferred adaptive).  I wonder if it is an Android issue.


----------



## alsorkin

clerkpalmer said:


> We will see when they ship. The website didn’t say anything about a preorder. Seems like a trend to sell the first batch direct before distributing to retail partners.
> 
> Yes, pi7. Go big or go home.


I placed my order for black with Crutchfield today with Friday delivery.


----------



## clerkpalmer

alsorkin said:


> I placed my order for black with Crutchfield today with Friday delivery.


Oh nice. I guess I should have waited. They were showing preorder on Crutchfield. Longer return policy too.


----------



## alsorkin

Guess I lucked out with the timing.


----------



## tinyman392 (Apr 21, 2021)

TK33 said:


> Agree, definitely real.  Got emails to preorder today as well.  Looks like some retailers previously jumped the gun when the product had not been officially released yet and had to pull the pages.


No one technically jumped the gun.  Any words about it were embargoed until early this morning, though it was a shorter embargo than I've seen in the past.


----------



## Sebulr (Apr 21, 2021)

I don't like the fit on the bomaker sifi 2 as they are shallow fit bud like Tws set. I used the large set off my broken mifo 05, which are very thin with a small nozzle, but it was hard to get a seal with my massive lugs and still get a tip into the case. I tried large tcm tornados with a fin inside the tip that I had lying around and the fit was worse. So tried a gamble and ordered some tcm large 14mm tips with a wide bore shallow fit, and they now fit both my ears and the case fine. Weird thing is, it seems to have upped the bass a smidgeon and tamed the upper mids a bit. Now they are pretty much my preferred v shaped tuning. I don't understand tip rolling sometimes, I thought wide bores decrease bass and make treble and upper mids sharper?

The moral of the story is, sometimes it pays to tip roll! Your normal preferred tips just might not work. Especially true with tiny Tws cases and those blessed with cavernous ear holes. I think it was £6 for 7 pairs, and the spares are going in my tip rolling bags.


----------



## erockg

I preordered the B&W PI7's.  Been waiting too long for these to not try them out.  Spoke to a online order rep at B&W.  They said they are in stock, ship via Fed Ex and their shipping warehouse is in California.  Lucky for me.


----------



## clerkpalmer

erockg said:


> I preordered the B&W PI7's.  Been waiting too long for these to not try them out.  Spoke to a online order rep at B&W.  They said they are in stock, ship via Fed Ex and their shipping warehouse is in California.  Lucky for me.


Ahh crap. California again. I may try to cancel and get from crutchfield.


----------



## C_Lindbergh

Will be interesting to read the impressions of the P17l, especially the battery life, I'm really curious how bad the battery is if you use them on a louder volume setting.


----------



## vladzakhar

bowers & wilkins pi7 ordered. If the sound is better when Falcon Pros, when it's a keep for me.


----------



## bladefd

C_Lindbergh said:


> The battery life is so freaking bad on these new B&W tws, especially the P17...
> 
> "
> PI7 ear buds:
> ...


Some folks here like to listen very loud. They would be lucky to get 3hrs lol - perhaps 2.5hrs. Unless if you carry around 2 separate tws or only listen to music during lunch time or something, it's not worth the money tbh


----------



## erockg

clerkpalmer said:


> Ahh crap. California again. I may try to cancel and get from crutchfield.


If they ship Fed Ex Home today, you might still get them by Friday.  But I get it, Crutchfield ships from the East.  They can usually get to me in 3 days here in LA.


----------



## bladefd

clerkpalmer said:


> yeah, that's pretty awesome and has definitely upped my excitement level a bit.  This means (I think) true hi res is achievable from basically any device if you use the case as the bridge.  Not quite the same as on board AptxhD or LDAC but certainly innovative in the TWS space.


I hope that is a feature we see more of in other future tws tbh. That allows tws to fit in more electronics if a couple of the electronics can be moved to the case. We might see more of that rather than trying to cram too much into the earbuds themselves. There are only so much many more transistors you can fit in like 2 square inches of the buds themselves. I bet that's why the Sony xm3 and mw07 are so large - they are trying to cram in too much into a tiny space. It was also why earbuds had master-slave for so long - it allowed them to put in different electronics in different buds rather than have both cramming a double of everything across each earbud.

By moving a couple pieces over to the case, they have more space in the buds to do other things such as increase driver size and battery size. The case would suddenly become as crucial as the buds themselves.


----------



## bladefd

Man, next generation with low energy Bluetooth in tws and perhaps more of this b&w pi7 idea of the case as transmitter in your pocket or table top could be insane. Battery life, sound quality all could improve further while the buds stay the same exact size (more so resemble the MT/mtw2 in size/design than say the massive Sony xm3 or AZ70 that jut too far outwards). Then you can fit in any codec you want and you will see larger driver sizes perhaps up to 15mm packed into tiny tws.


----------



## Canabuc

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Still has to be supported by the host device and it's weird. My phone can support all the codecs, but I can't make the NFP go into aptX HD. It's either Adaptive or normal.



Adaptive includes.HD. don't think phone would show HD if connected via adaptive but not completely sure.
My Samsung doesn't support apt.hd anyway.

That.lg.seems.more and more interesting


----------



## Canabuc

Sebulr said:


> I don't like the fit on the bomaker sifi 2 as they are shallow fit bud like Tws set. I used the large set off my broken mifo 05, which are very thin with a small nozzle, but it was hard to get a seal with my massive lugs and still get a tip into the case. I tried large tcm tornados with a fin inside the tip that I had lying around and the fit was worse. So tried a gamble and ordered some tcm large 14mm tips with a wide bore shallow fit, and they now fit both my ears and the case fine. Weird thing is, it seems to have upped the bass a smidgeon and tamed the upper mids a bit. Now they are pretty much my preferred v shaped tuning. I don't understand tip rolling sometimes, I thought wide bores decrease bass and make treble and upper mids sharper?
> 
> The moral of the story is, sometimes it pays to tip roll! Your normal preferred tips just might not work. Especially true with tiny Tws cases and those blessed with cavernous ear holes. I think it was £6 for 7 pairs, and the spares are going in my tip rolling bags.



Link for tips please


----------



## Sebulr

Canabuc said:


> Link for tips please


https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B01F5OR...abc_2GCAKS5H9N1JHFHR1B6B?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1


----------



## TK33

Canabuc said:


> Adaptive includes.HD. don't think phone would show HD if connected via adaptive but not completely sure.
> My Samsung doesn't support apt.hd anyway.
> 
> That.lg.seems.more and more interesting


I believe aptX HD and adaptive are different codecs just like adaptive is different from aptX LL (and seems to have replaced LL in newer devices).  I believe it is a variable bitrate similar to how LDAC or Scalable, in the case of Samsung devices, work.


----------



## clerkpalmer

erockg said:


> If they ship Fed Ex Home today, you might still get them by Friday.  But I get it, Crutchfield ships from the East.  They can usually get to me in 3 days here in LA.


Usually 4 solid days from the west coast. I’ll have to suffer with my Devialet until they arrive. Hope I can survive the extra 2 days. Lol. Talk about first world problems.


----------



## erockg

clerkpalmer said:


> Usually 4 solid days from the west coast. I’ll have to suffer with my Devialet until they arrive. Hope I can survive the extra 2 days. Lol. Talk about first world problems.


I miss my Gemini buds so much


----------



## tma6 (Apr 21, 2021)

erockg said:


> I preordered the B&W PI7's.  Been waiting too long for these to not try them out.  Spoke to a online order rep at B&W.  They said they are in stock, ship via Fed Ex and their shipping warehouse is in California.  Lucky for me.



Very curious about these, they look very promising. If the feature set and sound are as advertised they could be top tier in the TWS space, though don't love the 4 hrs battery life.


----------



## erockg

tma6 said:


> Very curious about these, they look very promising. If the feature set and sound are as advertised they could be top tier in the TWS space, though don't love the 4 hrs battery life.


Not the greatest but if the sound and the mics work well, I'm in.  Plus, I think you get 2 hours off a 15 min charge, or something like that.  I usually take my buds out after a few hours, sooooo...  Fingers crossed.


----------



## potix (Jul 25, 2021)

Today I've playing with the AutoEQ file for Az70 made by jaakkopasanen. I didn't use any tool, just manually edited it watching at a couple of fr graphs and having in mind my personal compensation curve, but trying also to keep a bit of the behaviour of the Technics between 300hz and 2k.
I paste here the code. If you want to try it just copy and paste in a txt file, import it in the autoeq section of wavelet, then search for it (type the name of the txt file) to make the eq appear in list.



> GraphicEQ: 20 -5.0; 21 -5.1; 22 -5.3; 23 -5.2; 24 -5.0; 26 -5.0; 27 -5.1; 29 -5.0; 30 -5.1; 32 -4.9; 34 -5.0; 36 -4.9; 38 -4.8; 40 -4.7; 43 -4.6; 45 -4.6; 48 -4.7; 50 -4.7; 53 -4.6; 56 -4.5; 59 -4.5; 63 -4.6; 66 -4.6; 70 -4.7; 74 -4.6; 78 -4.5; 83 -4.6; 87 -4.4; 92 -4.3; 97 -4.3; 103 -4.2; 109 -4.2; 115 -4.2; 121 -4.3; 128 -4.4; 136 -4.3; 143 -4.2; 151 -4.2; 160 -4.1; 169 -3.9; 178 -3.9; 188 -3.8; 199 -3.7; 210 -3.6; 222 -3.5; 235 -3.5; 248 -3.3; 262 -3.6; 277 -3.4; 292 -3.4; 309 -3.7; 326 -3.9; 345 -4.0; 364 -4.3; 385 -4.9; 406 -5.4; 429 -6.0; 453 -6.3; 479 -6.5; 506 -6.7; 534 -7.0; 565 -6.9; 596 -7.0; 630 -7.0; 665 -7.1; 703 -7.0; 743 -7.0; 784 -6.8; 829 -6.8; 875 -6.7; 924 -6.5; 977 -6.4; 1032 -6.6; 1090 -6.9; 1151 -7.1; 1216 -7.6; 1284 -7.8; 1357 -8.0; 1433 -7.9; 1514 -7.8; 1599 -7.5; 1689 -7.1; 1784 -6.7; 1885 -6.3; 1991 -5.8; 2103 -5.2; 2221 -4.5; 2347 -3.7; 2479 -3.0; 2618 -2.2; 2766 -1.3; 2921 -0.6; 3086 +0.1; 3260 +0.6; 3443 +0.7; 3637 +0.7; 3842 +0.7; 4058 +0.7; 4287 +0.3; 4528 -0.2; 4783 -0.4; 5052 -0.8; 5337 -1.6; 5637 -2.6; 5955 -3.9; 6290 -5.4; 6644 -6.5; 7018 -6.6; 7414 -6.6; 7831 -6.9; 8272 -7.6; 8738 -8.5; 9230 -7.4; 9749 -6.8; 10298 -6.1; 10878 -6.4; 11490 -5.7; 12137 -4.7; 12821 -3.7; 13543 -2.4; 14305 -1.0; 15110 +0.1; 15961 +0.3; 16860 +0.3; 17809 +0.3; 18812 +0.3; 19871 +0.3


----------



## Slowhand

Curious to hear the feedback regarding the sonic qualities of the B&W's.
Gen 2 B&W with BLE might be the proper endgame to look forward to


----------



## Luke Skywalker

Burakk said:


> Hi all, I was expecting from Apple to announce AirPods 3 but not happened. Could you please suggest what is the best one for know without considering the price ? I would like to use it daily use case, comfort , mic performans and very well done  hear through ( like AirPods Max) would be important to me. I don't mind isolation, I wasn't happy with my AirPods Pro just because pressure feeling.


I love the KEFs with my iPhone 12. Everything sounds amazing on them and they have AAC


----------



## DJ XtAzY

New firmware for the MT's

*(v1.4.2)

Updates:*


Auto-connect is now quicker, at around 6 seconds
Optimised power-off consistency when the earphones are placed in the charging case.
Earphones no longer automatically power off after 60 minutes of use on voice calls on a Windows 10 laptop/PC.
The current Audio Mode is now correctly displayed in the Melomania App
During a system reset the earphones return to the previous peer connection, after 60 seconds, if a new connection is not found
System reset optimised.


----------



## SemiAudiophile (Apr 21, 2021)

BT20S pro sound pretty good with the P1's as well. But at max volume on my phone it's not quite as loud as normal listening levels I'm used to. Anyone know how to adjust the gain setting on UAPP? I already disabled absolute volume in developer options on my Pixel phone.


----------



## tinyman392

SemiAudiophile said:


> BT20S pro sound pretty good with the P1's as well. But at max volume on my phone it's not quite as loud as the levels I'm used to. Anyone know how to adjust the gain setting on UAPP? I already disabled absolute volume in developer options on my Pixel phone.


I run this combo at a little less than half volume on my iPhone.


----------



## jant71

DJ XtAzY said:


> New firmware for the MT's
> 
> *(v1.4.2)
> 
> ...



That is slow. What was the connect time before? Though it is all relative. My AT connects half as fast but you don't get the audio till it shuts up about "battery life high" and "bluetooth connected". So about 5 seconds till hearing my stuff.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

erockg said:


> I preordered the B&W PI7's.  Been waiting too long for these to not try them out.  Spoke to a online order rep at B&W.  They said they are in stock, ship via Fed Ex and their shipping warehouse is in California.  Lucky for me.


Congrats bud. Hope they're everything you're hoping they are!


clerkpalmer said:


> Ahh crap. California again. I may try to cancel and get from crutchfield.


Do eeeet. Move to California and you'll never have to worry about it again!


TK33 said:


> I believe aptX HD and adaptive are different codecs just like adaptive is different from aptX LL (and seems to have replaced LL in newer devices).  I believe it is a variable bitrate similar to how LDAC or Scalable, in the case of Samsung devices, work.


Kinda.

aptX Adaptive is one of those codecs where, if you have it, you get to use it. If not, you "downgrade" to the next aptX-based codec, assuming your phone supports that (in the case of the NFP and my phone, it's aptX TWS+). This can also be manually selected, provided you have access to your Developer Options in Android.


DJ XtAzY said:


> New firmware for the MT's
> 
> *(v1.4.2)
> 
> ...


Disabling the auto power-off, if it actually works, will be an absolute godsend. Very curious to see how they affect my pair. I'll find out when I get home, I guess.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

Melomania Touch update complete. App still bugged out at 99% on the Right earbud, but an app reset was all it took this time.


We are updated, baby! Oh and there's another shift in the sig again. I'm back to running it flat. Me likey.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

jant71 said:


> That is slow. What was the connect time before? Though it is all relative. My AT connects half as fast but you don't get the audio till it shuts up about "battery life high" and "bluetooth connected". So about 5 seconds till hearing my stuff.


Couldn't tell you exactly how long, but it usually said "Melomania Connected" in ***y speaker voice by the time I had them seated in my ear. It was plenty fast before. Hopefully the extra connection speed doesn't cause too many issues with accidental touches as well.

I'd tell you myself, but I'd have to take them out first. And that's not happening for a while. I needed this.


----------



## FYLegend

Anyone tried using the AirReps156X app? It allows you to tweak Airoha devices though it seems to be designed with Airpod Pro clones in mind. Seems to work fine on my SoundPeats T2 - I can choose to use Hybrid or Feedforward and Feedback ANC, but it seems I can't save this as a default for when I power them on. FF ANC is less hissy than the default Hybrid ANC while FB ANC is pretty hissy. I can also access Low Latency mode. However, I can't access the EQ configuration


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

What the [insert profane word here] did Cambridge do this signature?! This Melomania Touch...it has staging. It has space. Panning effects in tracks like this are almost perfectly handed off between left, right, and center now:

Woah.


----------



## johnston21 (Apr 21, 2021)

Looking forward to having the Pi7’s added to rotation with the NFPs (and the Falcon 1s), and seeing how the case source sound compares to the Fii0 BTA30 and the NW-ZX507 (non-capped).

Pre-ordered from Bay-Bloor Radio equivalent to a x1.2 USD price (which is quite reasonable).

So far, nothing I’ve tried beats zero TV latency through the Fii0 BTA30 than the Shure BT2 (using aptx LL with 846s). The NFPs (aptx adaptive) do have lower TV latency than the Falcon 1s (aptx classic), so I’ll be happy if the Pi7 case source can do better, as the BTA30 does not have aptx adaptive and defaults the NFP’s to what I think is aptx HD, not Classic (regardless of what the BTA30 is showing), as adaptive (NFPs) has lower TV latency than Classic (Falcon 1s) using a non-adaptive source.

From what I read, the Pi7 case does not TX adaptive.


----------



## Canabuc

miserybeforethemusic said:


> What the [insert profane word here] did Cambridge do this signature?! This Melomania Touch...it has staging. It has space. Panning effects in tracks like this are almost perfectly handed off between left, right, and center now:
> 
> Woah.



Stop enabling!
My Aria arrived today. Won't likely listen to them before Friday as I have busy work schedule and don't know when I will have time to setup tips etc.


----------



## whitete

regancipher said:


> My full review here too


And an excellent review it is!  Thank you.


----------



## bladefd

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Melomania Touch update complete. App still bugged out at 99% on the Right earbud, but an app reset was all it took this time.
> 
> We are updated, baby! Oh and there's another shift in the sig again. I'm back to running it flat. Me likey.


You think they improved the mids/highs? I have not tried them yet but will soon in a bit


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

bladefd said:


> You think they improved the mids/highs? I have not tried them yet but will soon in a bit


Mids are cleaner, for sure. Spatial cues wouldn't work as well otherwise. I was getting a little bit of front-to-back on some of the pans in that track above when I switched over to Tidal. Wasn't making too many listening notes on treble, but I'll keep an ear out.

It's the little things, anyway. They plunked in and started charging the first time. Both buds. No accidental re-pairings while in the case so far.

Still confused as to what these are and who took my Melomania Touch.


----------



## bronco1015

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Still has to be supported by the host device and it's weird. My phone can support all the codecs, but I can't make the NFP go into aptX HD. It's either Adaptive or normal.


What about switching from dev options? You may have to power cycle afterwords though. I can't get my V60 to switch to APTXHD or LDAC while using the panda, but the V60 has random compatibility issues with other devices too like the qudelix 5K. @TK33 had a similar issue with the 5K but was able to turn off APTX Adaptive from the Qudelix app.
I realize this may not be an option, and you might have tried these and or other steps already. But i haven't heard about anyone trying this on a OnePlus dev.


----------



## bladefd

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Mids are cleaner, for sure. Spatial cues wouldn't work as well otherwise. I was getting a little bit of front-to-back on some of the pans in that track above when I switched over to Tidal. Wasn't making too many listening notes on treble, but I'll keep an ear out.
> 
> It's the little things, anyway. They plunked in and started charging the first time. Both buds. No accidental re-pairings while in the case so far.
> 
> Still confused as to what these are and who took my Melomania Touch.


Balanced sounds very good now. You really don't have to eq them anymore if you don't want to. I personally like bright sound as I come from beyerdynamic DT880 and Sennheiser HD600 on the desktop side over past 12 years.

These have truly spectacular sound!


----------



## profusion

Does somebody have Tronsmart Onyx Ace? I need tws for good video calls and maybe watching movies (probably very incidentally music)


----------



## tiagopinto (Apr 22, 2021)

miserybeforethemusic said:


> What the [insert profane word here] did Cambridge do this signature?! This Melomania Touch...it has staging. It has space. Panning effects in tracks like this are almost perfectly handed off between left, right, and center now:
> 
> Woah.




I just updated mine and went straight to this track on Tidal. Simply amazing. Then I tried Astrix with Ace Ventura and Astrix with Infected Mushroom... and so on...

Panning in all directions has definitely improved. If at all before, nothing sounds congested. Dynamics seem to have improved also. I want to try different genres now. But if something this complicated is playing as it is, something simpler will probably reveal even more subtleties.



miserybeforethemusic said:


> Mids are cleaner, for sure. Spatial cues wouldn't work as well otherwise. I was getting a little bit of front-to-back on some of the pans in that track above when I switched over to Tidal. Wasn't making too many listening notes on treble, but I'll keep an ear out.
> 
> It's the little things, anyway. They plunked in and started charging the first time. Both buds. No accidental re-pairings while in the case so far.
> 
> Still confused as to what these are and who took my Melomania Touch.



My update was seamless, no hiccups. I hadn’t had issues with the the contacts and the placement in the case. So if the electronics sensitivity was tweaked, even better now.

That front-to-back imaging is awesome.



bladefd said:


> Balanced sounds very good now. You really don't have to eq them anymore if you don't want to. I personally like bright sound as I come from beyerdynamic DT880 and Sennheiser HD600 on the desktop side over past 12 years.
> 
> These have truly spectacular sound!



I didn’t use EQ much before. Sometimes applying that “correction” by lowering the (mainly the upper) bass a bit and upping the high mids a little. Will have to test more, but I believe I won’t really need it anymore.

Good things come to those who wait and, although I don’t like brands to launch products letting some of the R&D to be done “after release”, I think the CA lurkers around here were really listening to us and have done a great job. I’m VERY pleased I got these and hope whoever returned them to give them a second chance. I’d like to have the experience of some to be able to try more of other models and brands, but (of the ones I have tried) at 130€, I think these may be unbeatable. Yes!


----------



## C_Lindbergh (Apr 22, 2021)

My issue with the CA MT was never the sound, that was actually their best aspect... My issue was with the various technical issues like pairing and charging. There was either an issue with re-connection of both buds when taken out of the case, or both buds wouldn't charge, I expierences this around 1 out of 10 times.

The most important feature of a pair of TWS is the convenience, if I can''t trust that to a 100% then It's kinda of a deal breaker.


----------



## jant71

C_Lindbergh said:


> My issue with the CA MT was never the sound, that was actually their best aspect... My issue was with the various technical issues like pairing and charging. There was either an issue with re-connection of both buds when taken out of the case, or both buds wouldn't charge, I expierences this around 1 out of 10 times.
> 
> The most important feature of a pair of TWS is the convenience, if I can''t trust that to a 100% then It's kinda of a deal breaker.


Though to be fair, even though the SQ is being talked about, the firmware update is seemingly about technical issues and the update points posted don't even mention SQ.


----------



## tiagopinto

https://tidal.com/track/135529872

https://tidal.com/track/89759282

https://tidal.com/track/16025465

Enjoying these even more. If you know L’Ascenceur and know how it was recorded, in this track I can even “feel” the room. Awesome.


----------



## Canabuc

tiagopinto said:


> I just updated mine and went straight to this track on Tidal. Simply amazing. Then I tried Astrix with Ace Ventura and Astrix with Infected Mushroom... and so on...
> 
> Panning in all directions has definitely improved. If at all before, nothing sounds congested. Dynamics seem to have improved also. I want to try different genres now. But if something this complicated is playing as it is, something simpler will probably reveal even more subtleties.
> 
> ...


Thing that I don't really understand is why the firmware updates don't mention anything about chaining the tuning but only fixing problems. You would think if they made updates to the tuning that fixed or improve the sound that would be part of the release notes.


----------



## tiagopinto

C_Lindbergh said:


> My issue with the CA MT was never the sound, that was actually their best aspect... My issue was with the various technical issues like pairing and charging. There was either an issue with re-connection of both buds when taken out of the case, or both buds wouldn't charge, I expierences this around 1 out of 10 times.
> 
> The most important feature of a pair of TWS is the convenience, if I can''t trust that to a 100% then It's kinda of a deal breaker.



Form factor for me was always a plus, even considering the extra sensitivity of the touch surface. 

When they had failed me before, they don’t anymore. But I totally understand your annoyance when they failed. I got also got frustrated at first but they haven’t given me issues since. 



jant71 said:


> Though to be fair, even though the SQ is being talked about, the firmware update is seemingly about technical issues and the update points posted don't even mention SQ.



True. They don’t. But I honestly think something in the amplification changed... for the better.


----------



## tiagopinto

Canabuc said:


> Thing that I don't really understand is why the firmware updates don't mention anything about chaining the tuning but only fixing problems. You would think if they made updates to the tuning that fixed or improve the sound that would be part of the release notes.



My opinion might be suggested and I’m sorry if it is. I like them regardless.


----------



## C_Lindbergh

Well I had the update before that one that came just now, and I still had issues... :/ 

But oh well, might give them a go once more


----------



## miserybeforethemusic (Apr 22, 2021)

C_Lindbergh said:


> My issue with the CA MT was never the sound, that was actually their best aspect... My issue was with the various technical issues like pairing and charging. There was either an issue with re-connection of both buds when taken out of the case, or both buds wouldn't charge, I expierences this around 1 out of 10 times.
> 
> The most important feature of a pair of TWS is the convenience, if I can''t trust that to a 100% then It's kinda of a deal breaker.


I've been monitoring that stuff as well, but it was way too soon to include that in the update. Listening impressions aren't that hard to gather.

Here's what I can say: I haven't had an issue yet getting the buds to drop into the case and start charging. On either side. Should remember that the Right bud was giving even me grief, especially when it would re-connect while in the case. I haven't seen that happen once yet.

Both buds have re-connected every time I've pulled them out of the case. Listened to them so long last night, I guess I fell asleep.


jant71 said:


> Though to be fair, even though the SQ is being talked about, the firmware update is seemingly about technical issues and the update points posted don't even mention SQ.


Same stuff as above; still testing it out, but so far all positive.


tiagopinto said:


> True. They don’t. But I honestly think something in the amplification changed... for the better.


That's the same impression I'm getting. Something in the signal chain has been improved. Any notion that the "High Amplification" mode in this thing is a gimmick went away after the last update. That thing has some power and, thanks to the tuning change, you can crank it up and enjoy it even louder if you so choose.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

In other news, received prompts to update both the Jabra 85t and Link 380. Don't think the 85t one was new, but it requested I update anyway. Maybe I just never did?

Anyway, change notes for each are below:

Link 380:


85t:


----------



## clerkpalmer

Any pi7 buyers get a shipping notification from B&W? They promised they would ship yesterday or today. I assume the crutchfield orders shipped immediately.


----------



## erockg

I actually emailed B&W this morning and just now they replied and said it should go out today.


----------



## alsorkin

clerkpalmer said:


> Any pi7 buyers get a shipping notification from B&W? They promised they would ship yesterday or today. I assume the crutchfield orders shipped immediately.


Yes.....my Crutchfield order was shipped on Weds. and shows Friday delivery.


----------



## vladzakhar

Same here


----------



## clerkpalmer

alsorkin said:


> Yes.....my Crutchfield order was shipped on Weds. and shows Friday delivery.


Gd. I’ll be waiting until Tuesday or Wednesday probably. Annoyed!


----------



## erockg

erockg said:


> I actually emailed B&W this morning and just now they replied and said it should go out today.


@clerkpalmer Got the shipping notification.  Due for delivery tomorrow


----------



## clerkpalmer

erockg said:


> @clerkpalmer Got the shipping notification.  Due for delivery tomorrow


Argh. Nothing here yet.   I want my shiny new toy!


----------



## clerkpalmer

erockg said:


> @clerkpalmer Got the shipping notification.  Due for delivery tomorrow


FedEx or UPS?


----------



## erockg

clerkpalmer said:


> FedEx or UPS?


Fed Ex.  I saw if first in my Fed Ex app and now I just got the email notification.


----------



## clerkpalmer

erockg said:


> Fed Ex.  I saw if first in my Fed Ex app and now I just got the email notification.


Thanks. Can’t wait to get impressions. I have MW08 arriving Friday but I may not even open them.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

Turns out I was a little quick on the gun regarding a "seamless update" on the MT, but it's my phone's fault.

Update process kept doing the same thing where it hangs at 99% on the right bud and then errors out. Tried my usual steps, including wiping data and cache. While that was apparently enough to convince the OnePlus 8T that both buds had matching firmware, the Pixel 3a that I'm re-setting up here for DAP duty called BS on that. Allowed the firmware update to take place via the Pixel 3a and now everything's hunky-dory. My experience got me to thinking that perhaps it might not be a bad idea for more people to have one older backup device for situations like this. I'd imagine any Android phone you could find used for $50 or less would do the trick. Just helps with installs on the bad apples.

In other news, I got a whole slew of full-size tips in for the wired IEMs:

Naturally, I'll be attempting to couple these with the various TWS I have here to see what'll work and what won't. I can vouch that every single tip here has a pretty significant change over stock sound signatures. Sadly, not a single one is going to permit the MTs to mate properly inside the case; I still suggest sticking with the Final TWS tips.

However, if you have a case that can handle those Symbio W Hybrid tips, woah momma...they're really, really good. Gives a really tasteful bass boost to the Blessing 2; I'd imagine it could do the same for any other pairs that someone might think are bass-lean. Really hope they make a TWS version of those at some point (assuming they haven't already).

@erockg @clerkpalmer really curious to see what you think of those B&Ws when they arrive. Did you both get PI7s?


----------



## erockg

clerkpalmer said:


> Thanks. Can’t wait to get impressions. I have MW08 arriving Friday but I may not even open them.


I love my MW08's too.  Sigh... KEF's arrive next week.  Currently searching for a therapist to help with this problem I have.


----------



## erockg

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Turns out I was a little quick on the gun regarding a "seamless update" on the MT, but it's my phone's fault.
> 
> Update process kept doing the same thing where it hangs at 99% on the right bud and then errors out. Tried my usual steps, including wiping data and cache. While that was apparently enough to convince the OnePlus 8T that both buds had matching firmware, the Pixel 3a that I'm re-setting up here for DAP duty called BS on that. Allowed the firmware update to take place via the Pixel 3a and now everything's hunky-dory. My experience got me to thinking that perhaps it might not be a bad idea for more people to have one older backup device for situations like this. I'd imagine any Android phone you could find used for $50 or less would do the trick. Just helps with installs on the bad apples.
> 
> ...


Yep, PI7 en route.  Shipping from San Bernardino CA.


----------



## clerkpalmer

erockg said:


> I love my MW08's too.  Sigh... KEF's arrive next week.  Currently searching for a therapist to help with this problem I have.


At some point they will be redundant right? I mean a grand of tws headphones?!  We could each have purchased i4s or Arias or something. 300 a pop keeps adding up. Wait until Audeze releases a tws. Game on.
The PI7 is the first real innovation I’ve seen in a while. Expectations are pretty high. They better be excellent.


----------



## darveniza

B&W PI7 arrived


----------



## erockg

clerkpalmer said:


> At some point they will be redundant right? I mean a grand of tws headphones?!  We could each have purchased i4s or Arias or something. 300 a pop keeps adding up. Wait until Audeze releases a tws. Game on.
> The PI7 is the first real innovation I’ve seen in a while. Expectations are pretty high. They better be excellent.


I seem to have an uncontrollable revolving door here.  They come in, someone ups the ante and the old ones go out so the new ones can come in.  So sad.  But effin fun.  Being stuck working from home during an pandemic doesn't help!


----------



## erockg

darveniza said:


> B&W PI7 arrived


This is not a fair post.  We're all still waiting!  Ha ha!


----------



## clerkpalmer

darveniza said:


> B&W PI7 arrived


We are all waiting with baited breath...


----------



## fmkuz

darveniza said:


> B&W PI7 arrived


Waiting for your impressions!


----------



## clerkpalmer

erockg said:


> I seem to have an uncontrollable revolving door here.  They come in, someone ups the ante and the old ones go out so the new ones can come in.  So sad.  But effin fun.  Being stuck working from home during an pandemic doesn't help!


Yeah my only point is for all this money we are spending we could have one serious high end desktop rig with sound quality that blows the doors off any tws. Tws is still limited by BT. And since I’m home all day, I have no reason not to use my full size cans. But I agree. Traditional cans aren’t really much fun.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

erockg said:


> Yep, PI7 en route.  Shipping from San Bernardino CA.


I'll wave hi to the FedEx truck on its way down the interstate, then. Hopefully they don't give you a heart attack like they did with my wife's anniversary present yesterday. I don't even have heart attacks like that for my own gear. Luckily, it was "mis-delivered" to a house we knew and had contact info for.


clerkpalmer said:


> At some point they will be redundant right? I mean a grand of tws headphones?!  We could each have purchased i4s or Arias or something. 300 a pop keeps adding up. Wait until Audeze releases a tws. Game on.
> The PI7 is the first real innovation I’ve seen in a while. Expectations are pretty high. They better be excellent.


I keep reading what you're saying, but it's not making any sense. I thought more was better!

On your note about how we could have bought a kilobuck pair right now, well, I guess that's part and parcel with the hobby. This whole year has really given me a chance to finally dive into mid-fi the right way and I probably wouldn't have taken the first step if it weren't for this thread's topic. I'm honestly really, really grateful. It's stressful out there right now; I'll take what comfort I can get, even if it's not a custom EE ODIN or MEST MkII.


erockg said:


> I seem to have an uncontrollable revolving door here.  They come in, someone ups the ante and the old ones go out so the new ones can come in.  So sad.  But effin fun.  Being stuck working from home during an pandemic doesn't help!


I can relate...

This was my swan song.


----------



## erockg

clerkpalmer said:


> Yeah my only point is for all this money we are spending we could have one serious high end desktop rig with sound quality that blows the doors off any tws. Tws is still limited by BT. And since I’m home all day, I have no reason not to use my full size cans. But I agree. Traditional cans aren’t really much fun.


Trust me, I get the point haha!  I have AirPods Max, but my world needs to be able to take calls and suffer on too many Zoom calls all day.  But sure, we could definitely have the best instead of all the little guys.  You're right, muuuuuch more fun.


----------



## erockg

miserybeforethemusic said:


> I'll wave hi to the FedEx truck on its way down the interstate, then. Hopefully they don't give you a heart attack like they did with my wife's anniversary present yesterday. I don't even have heart attacks like that for my own gear. Luckily, it was "mis-delivered" to a house we knew and had contact info for.
> 
> I keep reading what you're saying, but it's not making any sense. I thought more was better!
> 
> ...


Yeah, your addiction trumps mine for sure.  Ha ha!

One issue is how do I heard Fed Ex ring the doorbell while I have my NFP's in?  B&W wants a signature...  argh.


----------



## TK33

erockg said:


> I love my MW08's too.  Sigh... KEF's arrive next week.  Currently searching for a therapist to help with this problem I have.


Very interested in your impressions of the MW08 vs. PI7.  I know I would probably like the sound signature of the KEFs but I currently "need" another TWS for calls and seems like call quality isn't there on those.  I was going to pick up another Galaxy Buds Live but then these two dropped and keep coming up. Getting tired of telling people to "hold" while I switch my Galaxy Buds Live to whichever phone or computer I am taking the call on (not that it is that difficult with the BB uds Live BUT that will be my excuse)...

Also curious how the sound signature of the PI7 compares to their over ear headphones (I expect it will be similar).  Feature-wise the PI7 seems to tick the most boxes.


----------



## clerkpalmer

I’m a grown man with a job and a family. Yet here I sit refreshing my FedEx app every ten minutes waiting for my shipment notification. What a loser I am.


----------



## erockg

clerkpalmer said:


> I’m a grown man with a job and a family. Yet here I sit refreshing my FedEx app every ten minutes waiting for my shipment notification. What a loser I am.


Right there with you re: the family.  Never let them see you sweat.  Email B&W.  They're responsive.  It'll make you feel better


----------



## BigZ12

clerkpalmer said:


> I’m a grown man with a job and a family. Yet here I sit refreshing my FedEx app every ten minutes waiting for my shipment notification. What a loser I am.


I don't think that sounds like a loser at all! 
Just an engaged and enthusiastic guy, with a burning interest for his hobby!

I am really looking forward to hear impressions about the B&W vs Kef vs M&D and the Cambridge MT.

It's time I bought myself a new set of TWS's, but i just can afford one of them... 
Been using the APP's, MTW2 and Tevis for a while now.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

erockg said:


> Yeah, your addiction trumps mine for sure.  Ha ha!
> 
> One issue is how do I heard Fed Ex ring the doorbell while I have my NFP's in?  B&W wants a signature...  argh.


I mean I get a notification on my phone when they do that, but that's because I have one of those smart doorbells. The answer is simple: HearThrough!


clerkpalmer said:


> I’m a grown man with a job and a family. Yet here I sit refreshing my FedEx app every ten minutes waiting for my shipment notification. What a loser I am.


You're in company. That's exactly how I was for everything that's come in this year, including my second pair of P1, which will now stay sealed until I find someone worthy enough to inherit them.


----------



## darveniza

fmkuz said:


> Waiting for your impressions!


Sound is very good you can actually feel that there's two drivers working at it. Did Bill quality is good but it's all made out of hard type plastic? Compared against the master and Dynamics I think the build materials do not match the price. The earbuds allow for play, pause, FF, Rev, Siri but no volume control? Again for the price of these earbuds they should have it included. The app is okay but no equalizer as the MW.
Will keep testing sound and do some comparisons to get a flavor


----------



## bladefd

So the next big one will be the Sony xm4 I presume? I wonder what Sony has awaiting for us with that. Usually, they are known for innovation and pushing the line - they did a great job with the xm3. Except for the massive size. That was my only complaint and lack of ipx rating. Lack of ipx rating is usually no issue for me because I don't wear tws outdoors, especially not in rainy weather.

In this generation of Sony, I'm personally focused on battery life and codec. I think that once you get past $200, I would expect a minimum of 5hrs of battery life with ANC on. We are in 3rd generation of TWS in 2021 so there is no excuse for any tws released henceforth not hitting 5hrs with ANC, 7hrs without ANC imo. That and whether they are able to fit LDAC or something equivalent to aptx into a tws frame. Basically, I want them to take a step forward from the xm3.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

bladefd said:


> Balanced sounds very good now. You really don't have to eq them anymore if you don't want to. I personally like bright sound as I come from beyerdynamic DT880 and Sennheiser HD600 on the desktop side over past 12 years.
> 
> These have truly spectacular sound!


Ok so it's not just me. Thank you and thank you @tiagopinto for helping assure me I wasn't going crazy. Spectacular indeed.


darveniza said:


> Sound is very good you can actually feel that there's two drivers working at it. Did Bill quality is good but it's all made out of hard type plastic? Compared against the master and Dynamics I think the build materials do not match the price. The earbuds allow for play, pause, FF, Rev, Siri but no volume control? Again for the price of these earbuds they should have it included. The app is okay but no equalizer as the MW.
> Will keep testing sound and do some comparisons to get a flavor


Out of curiosity, was this your first hybrid TWS? They do catch you off guard when you're used to listening to single-DD setups. Wonder if it's another one of those cases where the BA is glued inside the nozzle pointing outward or if they went the DUNU route and channel them with a sound tube. Fwiw, the NFP are the former, but I don't mind it.

Bummer about the "metal" pieces just being coated plastic, but chances are they went that way to keep from messing with BT signal/range. Good thing it at least feels nice to the touch.

How's the included literature? Did it seem like B&W was marketing these to the iCustomer or genuinely for audiophiles?


----------



## darveniza

Quick Physical Comparison


----------



## pkcpga

darveniza said:


> Quick Physical Comparison


How would you rank the 4 you have pictured?


----------



## Jmm722 (Apr 22, 2021)

Is Jabra Elite Active 75t still the “go to” for bass heavy workout earbuds?  I don’t mind the slave earbud because I have the 65t.  I run a lot now and want earbuds that’ll withstand rain and sweat with good quality sound and bass for running music.

What I need: 1. Good quality sound 2. Water/sweat proof 3. Good call quality 4. Bass 5. Good ambient mode.

No limits on price.  Alternatively I could get a pair for running earbuds and a pair of high-end earbuds.

I returned the Airpod Pros and Momentum so far.  Didn’t like the fit of either for exercising.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

Jmm722 said:


> What I need: 1. Good quality sound 2. Water/sweat proof 3. Good call quality 4. Bass 5. Good ambient mode.


I mean that describes the EA75t pretty darn well and you also get ANC (not the best implementation, but not an original feature). It's not going to be the pinnacle of sound quality, but it's a darn good workout pair for energetic listening. Jaybirds used to bore me to tears.

They're also coated with something different and it helps them stay in my ears, but ymmv. I do appreciate their grippiness; it comes in handy (pun half-intended).


----------



## darveniza

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Ok so it's not just me. Thank you and thank you @tiagopinto for helping assure me I wasn't going crazy. Spectacular indeed.
> 
> Out of curiosity, was this your first hybrid TWS? They do catch you off guard when you're used to listening to single-DD setups. Wonder if it's another one of those cases where the BA is glued inside the nozzle pointing outward or if they went the DUNU route and channel them with a sound tube. Fwiw, the NFP are the former, but I don't mind it.
> 
> ...


Just quickly: 
Used the Noble Falcon in the past from a hybrid perspective. Not sure on the arrangement of the driver, no images like 1 More does in their packaging.Literature is very "light"
On the construction of the TWS earbuds the bronze color portions feel "metallic" but not sure if it's just coating


----------



## darveniza

pkcpga said:


> How would you rank the 4 you have pictured?


On Sound with ANC Off :
1- MW 08
2- Mix Feelings at this time Senheiser 2 and BW PI17
3- Sony

Build 
1- MW by a mile
2- All the other TWS unit

Case
1- MW by a mile
2- All the other TWS Unit


----------



## clerkpalmer

darveniza said:


> On Sound with ANC Off :
> 1- MW 08
> 2- Mix Feelings at this time Senheiser 2 and BW PI17
> 3- Sony
> ...


Maybe I will be keeping my MW08. Have you tried to use the case as a “hi res” bridge. I’m guessing that won’t put them over the top but I’d be interested in hearing about that feature. So I guess the tonality of the MW08 wins the day as I assume the PI7 has to be more detailed and resolving?


----------



## jant71

darveniza said:


> Just quickly:
> Used the Noble Falcon in the past from a hybrid perspective. Not sure on the arrangement of the driver, no images like 1 More does in their packaging.Literature is very "light"
> On the construction of the TWS earbuds the bronze color portions feel "metallic" but not sure if it's just coating


There are btw...


----------



## darveniza

jant71 said:


> There are btw...


Thanks for image, I was looking in package and did not see


----------



## darveniza

clerkpalmer said:


> Maybe I will be keeping my MW08. Have you tried to use the case as a “hi res” bridge. I’m guessing that won’t put them over the top but I’d be interested in hearing about that feature. So I guess the tonality of the MW08 wins the day as I assume the PI7 has to be more detailed and resolving?


Have not , will try. Interesting thinking in particular for flights.


----------



## jant71 (Apr 22, 2021)

Exploded image for the new Lypertek Pureplay Z7...



"In order to install 3 drivers into the insufficient integral space in Z7, we use the COAXIAL structure to install the Balanced Armature Drivers and the Dynamic Driver. Which can save more space & provides the required sound performance we need.  

At the same time, exclusive design for the Balanced Armature Drivers, we removed the nozzle of the BA to save the space, tested, adjusted & improved the BA drivers, so that it can keep the high frequency performance but avoid the harsh issue.
For the Dynamic Driver, we tried to use different films for the the driver. Finalized to use the traditional Mylar film and then make the high purity PPF titanium plating on it. And improve the magnetism to the maximum N52. Also use the COAXIAL design for the driver inside. Finally the exclusive drivers provide our most premium sound to you."





https://www.lypertek.com/pureplay-z7


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

No issues at all today with the MTs accidentally auto-pairing in the case, disconnecting while listening, or getting the buds to start charging when you drop them in the case.

Well I'm happy. I'll put them back on the recommended list again. Congrats, Cambridge. Still have some work to do on the update process with OnePlus phones, but otherwise a slam dunk as far as I'm concerned.


----------



## CocaCola15 (Apr 22, 2021)

miserybeforethemusic said:


> No issues at all today with the MTs accidentally auto-pairing in the case, disconnecting while listening, or getting the buds to start charging when you drop them in the case.
> 
> Well I'm happy. I'll put them back on the recommended list again. Congrats, Cambridge. Still have some work to do on the update process with OnePlus phones, but otherwise a slam dunk as far as I'm concerned.


Did the FW update and also feel the balanced setting is now fine. No more EQ required. The FW update stalled twice but I shut it all down and back on, says FW up to date.
At the $129 sale price, amazing value. With the CA M1+ and Status Between Pro in the house, a happy canper. No wants seems to be interested in buying my Earfun Free Pro Oluv ed. Not bad, but not good enough compared to the three I mentioned.
I did maniacally  order the Echo Buds v2, for $99 presale, but an easy return. Call me curious, and crazy too.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic (Apr 22, 2021)

CocaCola15 said:


> Did the FW update and also feel the balanced setting is now fine. No more EQ required. The FW update stalled twice but I shut it all down and back on, says FW up to date.
> At the $129 sale price, amazing value. With the CA M1+ and Status Between Pro in the house, a happy canper. No wants seems to be interested in buying my Earfun Free Pro Oluv ed. Not bad, but not good enough compared to the three I mentioned.
> I did maniacally  order the Echo Buds v2, for $99 presale, but an easy return. Call me curious, and crazy too.


I'm about to gift off my EFPs as well. They just don't get used and I'd rather they go to someone who could really appreciate them instead.

They went out for loan today; we'll see what happens.

Got another email from Status today saying they got in another 3,000 units, but no shipping notification yet. April's almost over. Oh well.


----------



## CocaCola15

miserybeforethemusic said:


> I'm about to gift off my EFPs as well. They just don't get used and I'd rather they go to someone who could really appreciate them instead.
> 
> They went out for loan today; we'll see what happens.
> 
> Got another email from Status today saying they got in another 3,000 units, but no shipping notification yet. April's almost over. Oh well.


I truly hope you find them as enjoyable as I do. No, not neutral in the Ety mode, not even close. but not an over-baked V experience either. They are, as one may say, very musical. Just buggers getting them in and out of the case. I do have Ety ER4XRs on hand for my neutral fix, with the Eudelix Dac/amp.

Going through my best Dan Hicks mix now with the MTs. Dan would be proud, may he RIP.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

CocaCola15 said:


> I truly hope you find them as enjoyable as I do. No, not neutral in the Ety mode, not even close. but not an over-baked V experience either. They are, as one may say, very musical. Just buggers getting them in and out of the case. I do have Ety ER4XRs on hand for my neutral fix, with the Eudelix Dac/amp.
> 
> Going through my best Dan Hicks mix now with the MTs. Dan would be proud, may he RIP.


Talking about Hot Licks Dan Hicks? Always dug _Hesitation Blues._ Oh boy, that's some good stuff for the AZ70W. It loves acoustic work, especially once you bring in the fiddle.

Looking forward to the Status based on that feedback!


----------



## pkcpga

darveniza said:


> On Sound with ANC Off :
> 1- MW 08
> 2- Mix Feelings at this time Senheiser 2 and BW PI17
> 3- Sony
> ...


Interesting the MW08 personally for sound I thought was fairly poor, build was the nicest but sound was very lacking.  My top is the Falcon pro so far, debating on the BW P17 but it’s a bit high priced for a dual driver and there’s no EQ capabilities.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

pkcpga said:


> Interesting the MW08 personally for sound I thought was fairly poor, build was the nicest but sound was very lacking.  My top is the Falcon pro so far, debating on the BW P17 but it’s a bit high priced for a dual driver and there’s no EQ capabilities.


You might appreciate the WH3. I think there's some insight as a tuner into seeing just how that crossover plays into these hybrid arrangements. The WH3 is definitely not the most resolving pair out there, but they were definitely reliable, stable, and unique.

I told Andrew at MusicTeck I'd be sending them back, but I might change my mind based on this PI7 discussion.


----------



## tinyman392

pkcpga said:


> Interesting the MW08 personally for sound I thought was fairly poor, build was the nicest but sound was very lacking.  My top is the Falcon pro so far, debating on the BW P17 but it’s a bit high priced for a dual driver and there’s no EQ capabilities.


I’ve personally never really equated driver count with sound quality.  Some of my best IEMs are single-driver setups.  If you tune a single driver very well, it’ll easily outclass multi-driver ones.  Same with a good dual-driver outclassing triple+ driver setups.


----------



## CocaCola15 (Apr 22, 2021)

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Talking about Hot Licks Dan Hicks? Always dug _Hesitation Blues._ Oh boy, that's some good stuff for the AZ70W. It loves acoustic work, especially once you bring in the fiddle.
> 
> Looking forward to the Status based on that feedback!


The one and only Dan Hicks & His Hot Licks. Been a serious fan since the 1970s. Great in performance. So many fun tracks.
Sorry about the OT.
I really would love to hear feedback ftom Between Pro owners at some point. Lonely place to be. Can’t believe they cost me $79.

Last thing re Hicks: find the track entitled “How Can I Miss You When You Won’t Go Away?” from the “Alive & Lickin’” album. That song says it all.


----------



## alsorkin

pkcpga said:


> Interesting the MW08 personally for sound I thought was fairly poor, build was the nicest but sound was very lacking.  My top is the Falcon pro so far, debating on the BW P17 but it’s a bit high priced for a dual driver and there’s no EQ capabilities.


I have the Falcon Pro and will be having the B&W P17 on Friday. Will try to do a comparison soon after.


----------



## chinmie

jant71 said:


> Exploded image for the new Lypertek Pureplay Z7...
> 
> "In order to install 3 drivers into the insufficient integral space in Z7, we use the COAXIAL structure to install the Balanced Armature Drivers and the Dynamic Driver. Which can save more space & provides the required sound performance we need.
> 
> ...


with all that effort to save space on the earpieces, why the heck they went loose on the case size... talk about inconsistency


----------



## TK33

pkcpga said:


> Interesting the MW08 personally for sound I thought was fairly poor, build was the nicest but sound was very lacking.  My top is the Falcon pro so far, debating on the BW P17 but it’s a bit high priced for a dual driver and there’s no EQ capabilities.


I wish these companies would include EQ capabilities if they have an app.  Understand smaller companies may not have the development budget but my guess is that this was not the case with B&W.  I really liked my original MTWs because, while the in app EQ was very basic, it actually works really well (hate the stock tuning).

If anyone has the MW07 Plus or Go and the MW08, is the MW08 similar in sound signature to the older versions? I find the MW07 Go has great bass but is a bit U shaped for my personal taste and sometimes find myself craving a little more in the mids.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

CocaCola15 said:


> The one and only Dan Hicks & His Hot Licks. Been a serious fan since the 1970s. Great in performance. So many fun tracks.
> Sorry about the OT.
> I really would love to hear feedback ftom Between Pro owners at some point. Lonely place to be. Can’t believe they cost me $79.
> 
> Last thing re Hicks: find the track entitled “How Can I Miss You When You Won’t Go Away?” from the “Alive & Lickin’” album. That song says it all.


I'd love to give some feedback. It's either going to be those or the HiBy for my sub-$200 hybrid rec. We'll see which one when the BP gets here.

Tidal had about 50 renditions of that track, none on that album. Found it on Spotify. Got a good chuckle out of it. Love his live ad-libs.


----------



## darveniza

TK33 said:


> I wish these companies would include EQ capabilities if they have an app.  Understand smaller companies may not have the development budget but my guess is that this was not the case with B&W.  I really liked my original MTWs because, while the in app EQ was very basic, it actually works really well (hate the stock tuning).
> 
> If anyone has the MW07 Plus or Go and the MW08, is the MW08 similar in sound signature to the older versions? I find the MW07 Go has great bass but is a bit U shaped for my personal taste and sometimes find myself craving a little more in the mids.


Have MW07 Plus and the 08 Improves sound signature.


----------



## Robius (Apr 23, 2021)

Are there anyone who bought the new Fiil CC Pro? Some reviews say they have the best ANC to date. They'r advertising 39dB noise cancelling.


----------



## assassin10000 (Apr 23, 2021)

Anyone with the mw08 have a measurement setup? Kinda want to see it's sig.

The mw07 was a bit too V-shaped for me to bite.


----------



## Tstorey

Stupid question, the B&W Pi7 don’t do multi point pairing as far as I’ve read but if you use the bridge are the units paired to the bridge or the device you’re streaming from? Seems to me that if connected to the case/bridge then you can just plug and play between devices using this method (or have them paired to one device and use the bridge for all others?).

I love the B&W ”house” sound and will be getting the Pi7’s at some point.


----------



## Charlyro222

Totally agree. CA MT with new firmware update, no more EQ needed.


----------



## Charlyro222

Can anybody tell me  thoughts about mw08 vs MT? 
Thank's in advance.


----------



## C_Lindbergh

Please share your impressions about the battery life and how well the case transmitter works for the PI7!  

Hows the SQ and latency when using the PI7 with the case on a PC?


----------



## bronco1015

clerkpalmer said:


> I’m a grown man with a job and a family. Yet here I sit refreshing my FedEx app every ten minutes waiting for my shipment notification. What a loser I am.. Theres a little part of me that wants to just throw down and buy the Mu3, Mw08, PI7 and NFP right now. 2 are over my TWE spending limit per pair, and 1 the MW08 i have reservations about. I haven't liked M&D's approach to fingerprint magnet case and the feel of the MW07 i wasn't crazy about. But I never have been able to completely rule them out for some reason.


----------



## pkcpga

tinyman392 said:


> I’ve personally never really equated driver count with sound quality.  Some of my best IEMs are single-driver setups.  If you tune a single driver very well, it’ll easily outclass multi-driver ones.  Same with a good dual-driver outclassing triple+ driver setups.


Depends, I’ve never heard a single driver have great detail and separation.  Big thing I also find with single drivers is poor timing, most have quick highs and slower moving lows.  That is unless they have rolled lows and lack bass.  I guess it also depends on how crossovers are done.  Some of my favorite IEMs are the U12, Odin and Mest, all multi driver.  Even better speakers  are 3 or even 4 or 5 way drivers and crossovers, less frequency each driver does the easier to separate the detail as long as they all work coherently together.  I understand with true wireless, more drivers usually means more power requirements, another obstacle.  For myself even some of the famed dynamic single driver IEMs have poor timing and at least two weak zones in frequency response.  I personally have yet to find one I love.


----------



## TK33 (Apr 23, 2021)

darveniza said:


> Have MW07 Plus and the 08 Improves sound signature.


Can you elaborate on what you mean? Improves is a bit subjective.  Is it a bit less U or V shaped? Appreciate any color you can give.  From what I have read so far, sound signature of the MW08 and MW07 appear to be very similar except for some more bass on the MW08.  Thanks.


----------



## jant71

chinmie said:


> with all that effort to save space on the earpieces, why the heck they went loose on the case size... talk about inconsistency


Well, they could have a smaller case but then they wouldn't have the 60 hour battery life for the case. 

If you check it out, the pad is 100mm to the outside so that case is around 3.3" to 3.5" and seems to be a little more slender than the Z3 case maybe.


----------



## MaccaUK

In answer to the original question, with the arrival this morning of my shiny new B&W’s, then yes, I think we are there with TWS. These are so far in advance of anything else I’ve heard it makes almost all other headphones redundant. I’m not an audiophile, so forgive the lack of description, but the deatail, depth, clarity & just general finesse goes beyond any other TWS I currently have, or have sent back to Amazon, including the likes of Sennheiser, Cambridge Audio, M&D etc. etc....... Yes,it looks like the battery life will be the biggest downside, but I think I can live wth that because of all the upsides. Been listening now for around 5 hours with a few Webex meetings inbetween and a charge over lunch, and I am Very Impressed! Someone earlier in the thread mentioned the MT had a British tuning, and I would say that these take that route and supercharge it. Lovely!!


----------



## TK33 (Apr 23, 2021)

MaccaUK said:


> In answer to the original question, with the arrival this morning of my shiny new B&W’s, then yes, I think we are there with TWS. These are so far in advance of anything else I’ve heard it makes almost all other headphones redundant. I’m not an audiophile, so forgive the lack of description, but the deatail, depth, clarity & just general finesse goes beyond any other TWS I currently have, or have sent back to Amazon, including the likes of Sennheiser, Cambridge Audio, M&D etc. etc....... Yes,it looks like the battery life will be the biggest downside, but I think I can live wth that because of all the upsides. Been listening now for around 5 hours with a few Webex meetings inbetween and a charge over lunch, and I am Very Impressed! Someone earlier in the thread mentioned the MT had a British tuning, and I would say that these take that route and supercharge it. Lovely!!



Just to clarify, you mentioned WebEx...did you use them for the actual meeting/call? If so, how was the call/mic quality?


----------



## C_Lindbergh (Apr 23, 2021)

I just can't justify the price with that awful battery life, it would be like buying a tesla with a range of 100 kms... If you have to charge them fully 1-2 times each day I don't wanna imagine what kind of battery life you'll have in 2-3 years. However if 400 EUR is nothing to you and you'll have to problem purchasnig a new pair of TWS in a year then yeah go for it.

Also the fact that you can't enable ambient mode or change volume without taking up your phone is a pretty big downside, even tho this should be fixable with a firmware update.


----------



## clerkpalmer

jant71 said:


> Well, they could have a smaller case but then they wouldn't have the 60 hour battery life for I just can't justify the price with that awful battery life, it would be like buying a tesla with a range of 100 kms... If you have to charge them fully 1-2 times each day I don't wanna imagine what kind of battery life you'll have in 2-3 years.


Good comparison. I have a Tesla and after buying it learned that those promised ranges are nonsense. In reality they get about 2/3 to 3/4 of the promised range before battery degradation sets in. From there, losses mount.

for those who keep their tws for a number of years starting at 4 hours and going downhill from there is definitely a concern. For me, by the time the battery drops enough to matter, the tech will have advanced enough that I will have moved on. Let’s hope the promised 4 hours is correct because anything less means a return.

Sadly, these are basically disposable items and 400 is definitely a lot to spend for something like that. Everyone has their limits and it’s perfectly reasonable to pass on these based on the poor starting battery life. We all know it’s not going to improve.


----------



## pkcpga

clerkpalmer said:


> Good comparison. I have a Tesla and after buying it learned that those promised ranges are nonsense. In reality they get about 2/3 to 3/4 of the promised range before battery degradation sets in. From there, losses mount.
> 
> for those who keep their tws for a number of years starting at 4 hours and going downhill from there is definitely a concern. For me, by the time the battery drops enough to matter, the tech will have advanced enough that I will have moved on. Let’s hope the promised 4 hours is correct because anything less means a return.
> 
> Sadly, these are basically disposable items and 400 is definitely a lot to spend for something like that. Everyone has their limits and it’s perfectly reasonable to pass on these based on the poor starting battery life. We all know it’s not going to improve.


Definitely curious about real world battery time on the P17, the Falcon Pro’s I get about 7.5 hours use out of a charge.  Which works well for most flights plus airport use.  I think 4 hours is very low, I know the nobles state 5.5 hours at 100% volume and 10 hours at 50% volume, so wondering what volume 4 hours is at with the P17?


----------



## tinyman392

pkcpga said:


> Depends, I’ve never heard a single driver have great detail and separation.  Big thing I also find with single drivers is poor timing, most have quick highs and slower moving lows.  That is unless they have rolled lows and lack bass.  I guess it also depends on how crossovers are done.  Some of my favorite IEMs are the U12, Odin and Mest, all multi driver.  Even better speakers  are 3 or even 4 or 5 way drivers and crossovers, less frequency each driver does the easier to separate the detail as long as they all work coherently together.  I understand with true wireless, more drivers usually means more power requirements, another obstacle.  For myself even some of the famed dynamic single driver IEMs have poor timing and at least two weak zones in frequency response.  I personally have yet to find one I love.


Some of my favorite IEMs are single driver. Granted none of them are a single dynamic, I’m sure if one was done well enough, it would hit the spot. Etymotic and Audeze come to mind for the best single-driver setups I’ve heard.


----------



## clerkpalmer

pkcpga said:


> Definitely curious about real world battery time on the P17, the Falcon Pro’s I get about 7.5 hours use out of a charge.  Which works well for most flights plus airport use.  I think 4 hours is very low, I know the nobles state 5.5 hours at 100% volume and 10 hours at 50% volume, so wondering what volume 4 hours is at with the P17?


Apparently “medium” volume whatever that means. Waiting for real world tests. Let’s hope they pull a BMW and have underrated them.


----------



## C_Lindbergh (Apr 23, 2021)

Once we get Bluetooth audio LE/LC3 I'd would have no problem paying well over 1K EUR if a well-renowned audiophile company launched a pair of premium TWS,  if they could guarantee that you could exchange the batteries (and other parts) for a small fee over the next 5-10 years.

I just don't think we'll see any major technical improvements for a while after next gen Bluetooth.

I am however very pleased that B&W actually gave us something now with the whole transmitter in the case.


----------



## clerkpalmer (Apr 23, 2021)

Rant coming.  M&D MW08 ordered last tuesday - 4/13.  Shipped this tuesday - 4/20.  Sitting in California at FedEx.  Haven't moved since Wednesday.  Original ETA - Saturday, 4/24.  Now showing Tuesday 4/27.  So a whopping 14 days from ordering to receipt.  PI7 ordered Wednesday am, first thing.  In an effort to keep me from switching to Crutchfied, I was promised by B&W to ship "same day".  Didn't ship until "next day".  Showing delivery 4/28 - one week after ordering.  I find all of this unacceptable and a perfect reminder of why I make it a point never to buy directly from the manufacturer.  How much extra would it really cost these places to ship via FedEx 2 day?  $5 bucks? Or use USPS priority which is significantly faster (although prone to more problems).


----------



## sheamus

I'd be interested in what theP17's are like on phone calls. I love B&W, so willing to take a chance on SQ, but I need decent call-quality.  I have a pair of Senn TW2's, and basically can't use them for phone calls. Can't seem to find anything on the internet about people making a call with them.


----------



## C_Lindbergh (Apr 23, 2021)

I can't really find any reviews of the P17 other than a few clearly sponsored ones.

Typically the OEM will send out their new products to various reviewers before launch and then remove the NDA once they actually launch.

If they show up on Amazon I'll prob give them a go just for the sake of it, then I can easily return them. The official retailer in my country don't do IEM returns :/


----------



## Darkestred

C_Lindbergh said:


> Once we get Bluetooth audio LE/LC3 I'd would have no problem paying well over 1K EUR if a well-renowned audiophile company launched a pair of premium TWS,  if they could guarantee that you could exchange the batteries (and other parts) for a small fee over the next 5-10 years.
> 
> I just don't think we'll see any major technical improvements for a while after next gen Bluetooth.
> 
> I am however very pleased that B&W actually gave us something now with the whole transmitter in the case.




I think this would be smart and it would totally make sense as we start to see offerings soon eclipsing the $400 mark.  Given how cell phones all went non-removal battery.  I could see at best a trade-in program.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic (Apr 23, 2021)

clerkpalmer said:


> Rant coming.  M&D MW08 ordered last tuesday - 4/12.  Shipped this tuesday - 4/21.  Sitting in California at FedEx.  Haven't moved since Wednesday.  Original ETA - Saturday, 4/24.  Now showing Tuesday 4/27.  So a whopping 14 days from ordering to receipt.  PI7 ordered Wednesday am, first thing.  In an effort to keep me from switching to Crutchfied, I was promised by B&W to ship "same day".  Didn't ship until "next day".  Showing delivery 4/28 - one week after ordering.  I find all of this unacceptable and a perfect reminder of why I make it a point never to buy directly from the manufacturer.  How much extra would it really cost these places to ship via FedEx 2 day?  $5 bucks? Or use USPS priority which is significantly faster (although prone to more problems).


On behalf of California, I apologize. We're weird. I don't like our FedEx people, either, though they and UPS are in a perpetual battle for who can be _less bad_ than the other on almost a weekly basis.

To be fair, everything is moving slowly nowadays, unless it's coming via DHL. They're the only company I've ever seen get something from China to here in 4 days flat without paying anything extra in shipping (thank you, Apos). It's almost getting worth it to pay extra for faster shipping to get yourself ahead of the pecking order when you can. With everybody staying home and ordering in, all of these companies are just saturated. Add on the mandatory understaffing across the board and Orwellian crud coming out of the Amazon fulfillment centers (algorithms that monitor how close you are to your coworker...give me a break) and I'm about to go on a no-buy in protest.

We used to make jokes about unfair labor practices around the world. Now we're turning a blind eye while these guys usher them in for our own convenience. Gross.


Darkestred said:


> I think this would be smart and it would totally make sense as we start to see offerings soon eclipsing the $400 mark.  Given how cell phones all went non-removal battery.  I could see at best a trade-in program.


Either that or just make these things with user-replaceable batteries. I know we've normalized replacement instead of repair at this point, but I'm still a pretty staunch Right to Repair advocate. Wouldn't be too hard to configure these to have serviceable parts. We just like our stuff to look pretty and use that as an excuse to not engineer in the ability to perform basic maintenance. Matter of fact, I would think it could turn into a class action point if someone were to set precedent that these batteries having such short lives and no user replaceability was a form of market manipulation through planned obsolescence. Legally speaking, we're getting pretty close to that with what Louis Rossman's been doing for RTR against Apple. Not as big a fan of the guy's YT channel, but I applaud him for what he's doing for the consumer.

Someone's gotta do it.


----------



## tinyman392

I’m waiting on measurements of the PI7. B&W has been a mixed bag for me in the past with some that I’ve loved and others I’ve said meh to. The more linear ones I prefer, but their V-shaped and more recent PX that I heard I wasn’t the biggest fan of.


----------



## Thesonofkrypton

MaccaUK said:


> In answer to the original question, with the arrival this morning of my shiny new B&W’s, then yes, I think we are there with TWS. These are so far in advance of anything else I’ve heard it makes almost all other headphones redundant. I’m not an audiophile, so forgive the lack of description, but the deatail, depth, clarity & just general finesse goes beyond any other TWS I currently have, or have sent back to Amazon, including the likes of Sennheiser, Cambridge Audio, M&D etc. etc....... Yes,it looks like the battery life will be the biggest downside, but I think I can live wth that because of all the upsides. Been listening now for around 5 hours with a few Webex meetings inbetween and a charge over lunch, and I am Very Impressed! Someone earlier in the thread mentioned the MT had a British tuning, and I would say that these take that route and supercharge it. Lovely!!



I see from your sig you also have the XM3.  How do they compare? 

I have a friend who just took the marketing shots for the wf-1000xm4.  I expect they're out very soon.  He didn't know about ETA unfortunately.


----------



## erockg

clerkpalmer said:


> Rant coming.  M&D MW08 ordered last tuesday - 4/13.  Shipped this tuesday - 4/20.  Sitting in California at FedEx.  Haven't moved since Wednesday.  Original ETA - Saturday, 4/24.  Now showing Tuesday 4/27.  So a whopping 14 days from ordering to receipt.  PI7 ordered Wednesday am, first thing.  In an effort to keep me from switching to Crutchfied, I was promised by B&W to ship "same day".  Didn't ship until "next day".  Showing delivery 4/28 - one week after ordering.  I find all of this unacceptable and a perfect reminder of why I make it a point never to buy directly from the manufacturer.  How much extra would it really cost these places to ship via FedEx 2 day?  $5 bucks? Or use USPS priority which is significantly faster (although prone to more problems).


Defintitely call or email M&D.  This happened to me and I'm in CA!  After I called, suddenly my package moved. 

Got my B&Ws in my ears right now.  They fit me better than my MW08.  Tighter.  Better seal.  They sound great (I'll compare with MW08 during the day).  Better mids than the MW08.  ANC blows away the MW08.  I put them in, the world went silent here at home.  Case is plastic.  Qi works well.  Two wishes - Volume control and for transparency to kick in when I pause music.  Guessing this can be fixed in a firmware update.  It's going to be a fun Friday!


----------



## Darkestred

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Either that or just make these things with user-replaceable batteries. I know we've normalized replacement instead of repair at this point, but I'm still a pretty staunch Right to Repair advocate. Wouldn't be too hard to configure these to have serviceable parts. We just like our stuff to look pretty and use that as an excuse to not engineer in the ability to perform basic maintenance. Matter of fact, I would think it could turn into a class action point if someone were to set precedent that these batteries having such short lives and no user replaceability was a form of market manipulation through planned obsolescence. Legally speaking, we're getting pretty close to that with what Louis Rossman's been doing for RTR against Apple. Not as big a fan of the guy's YT channel, but I applaud him for what he's doing for the consumer.
> 
> Someone's gotta do it.



I'd be for it.  Either make a design like some of the campfire audio's so the user can unscrew them or have a flip design (think soundcore's usb-c implemetation) with a screw or a watchback type divet that can be raised for easy access.  But, i dont see it happening anytime soon.

Plenty of ways they could do potentially make a kililng whether its a battery manufacturer or a consortium making a standard blah blah blah.


----------



## bladefd

C_Lindbergh said:


> Once we get Bluetooth audio LE/LC3 I'd would have no problem paying well over 1K EUR if a well-renowned audiophile company launched a pair of premium TWS,  if they could guarantee that you could exchange the batteries (and other parts) for a small fee over the next 5-10 years.
> 
> I just don't think we'll see any major technical improvements for a while after next gen Bluetooth.
> 
> I am however very pleased that B&W actually gave us something now with the whole transmitter in the case.


Do any tws currently have replaceable batteries?? I almost feel like the tws business model is to not let the batteries be replaceable so you have to buy a new one every couple years.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

Darkestred said:


> I'd be for it.  Either make a design like some of the campfire audio's so the user can unscrew them or have a flip design (think soundcore's usb-c implemetation) with a screw or a watchback type divet that can be raised for easy access.  But, i dont see it happening anytime soon.
> 
> Plenty of ways they could do potentially make a kililng whether its a battery manufacturer or a consortium making a standard blah blah blah.


Easy access messes with IP certification, so I would agree with you. People seem to prefer knowing if they theoretically drop their buds in a glass of water, they'll survive. Never understood the allure to that, but I suppose they have to be "different" somehow nowadays.

First company to come along and make a truly user-serviceable TWS (like how Sennheiser used to be with their headphones) is going to get laughed off the market. The second company to try it will probably be way more successful.


----------



## bladefd

Darkestred said:


> I think this would be smart and it would totally make sense as we start to see offerings soon eclipsing the $400 mark.  Given how cell phones all went non-removal battery.  I could see at best a trade-in program.


Cell phones have turned into bit of a scam too. At one point, you could physically replace the battery yourself by opening the back panel.

Now once the battery starts going after couple years, the phone is useless. Then you have to buy a new one through trade-in, which gives you pennies on the dollar, or pay the company $100 to replace battery for you since it's too difficult to do it yourself (might be as much as the phone is worth after 2yrs of use). Companies like Apple are known for starting up crappy movements like that and it's a bit enraging. 

We have the same here with tws, but tws companies currently don't even replace batteries for you. I really hope that changes and doesn't continue on the path it has so far.


----------



## MaccaUK

TK33 said:


> Just to clarify, you mentioned WebEx...did you use them for the actual meeting/call? If so, how was the call/mic quality?


No. Sorry - I normally use my iMac speakers for Webex as I’m in a quiet home office.


----------



## MaccaUK

Thesonofkrypton said:


> I see from your sig you also have the XM3.  How do they compare?
> 
> I have a friend who just took the marketing shots for the wf-1000xm4.  I expect they're out very soon.  He didn't know about ETA unfortunately.


Night and day for me. I use an android DAP for most home / mobile listening, so the XM3 only play AAC on those models which is why I wanted a decent AptX implementation on my forever TWS. The Sony feels rich and warm, but almost muddy. For me they’re wasted on Tidal or Qobuz, but actually seem to improve Apple Music AAC’s especially with DSEE switched on with my iPhone . Both the AKG N400’s and now even more so, the B&W’s have more detail and clarity - seem to be much more revealing and even handed with their treatment of bass / mids / treble. Absolutely no regrets on the Pi7’s, less so with the XM3’s.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

bladefd said:


> Cell phones have turned into bit of a scam too. At one point, you could physically replace the battery yourself by opening the back panel.
> 
> Now once the battery starts going after couple years, the phone is useless. Then you have to buy a new one through trade-in, which gives you pennies on the dollar, or pay the company $100 to replace battery for you since it's too difficult to do it yourself (might be as much as the phone is worth after 2yrs of use). Companies like Apple are known for starting up crappy movements like that and it's a bit enraging.
> 
> We have the same here with tws, but tws companies currently don't even replace batteries for you. I really hope that changes and doesn't continue on the path it has so far.


Now that Apple has control of the CPU with their own silicon, they can effectively brick your device if you attempt to repair parts on your own. They're a special kind of dirty, but probably too OT for this thread. The abysmal repairability score on all of their audio products is bad enough.


----------



## tinyman392

bladefd said:


> Do any tws currently have replaceable batteries?? I almost feel like the tws business model is to not let the batteries be replaceable so you have to buy a new one every couple years.


Most do not. Some can be changed, but it would be difficult. Others are too much glue and are designed to be disposable. Battery is one major issue with TWS.


----------



## CocaCola15

miserybeforethemusic said:


> I'd love to give some feedback. It's either going to be those or the HiBy for my sub-$200 hybrid rec. We'll see which one when the BP gets here.
> 
> Tidal had about 50 renditions of that track, none on that album. Found it on Spotify. Got a good chuckle out of it. Love his live ad-libs.


Yes, that was a great aspect of his performances, and the band and Lickettes were also great.

Maybe your Between Pro will be in this latest batch. I noticed on Indiegogo, no one is talking about the BPs, only about their unhappiness with the delivery schedule. Shame. But many say they love the sound. My concern is durability, though Status is a good customer-facing company from my experience.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

CocaCola15 said:


> Yes, that was a great aspect of his performances, and the band and Lickettes were also great.
> 
> Maybe your Between Pro will be in this latest batch. I noticed on Indiegogo, no one is talking about the BPs, only about their unhappiness with the delivery schedule. Shame. But many say they love the sound. My concern is durability, though Status is a good customer-facing company from my experience.


Yes, I have to avoid that comments section. Just filled with people saying _I'm order number 4XXX, when do I get mine_. Kudos to Status for replying back to every single one of them, though. I think that speaks a lot to your post-sales support concerns. Hopefully it's not an act, but I don't think Status has ever done anything shady in the past as is.

You said you've had experience with them in the past. What was the product?


----------



## rhsauer

clerkpalmer said:


> Rant coming.  M&D MW08 ordered last tuesday - 4/13.  Shipped this tuesday - 4/20.  Sitting in California at FedEx.  Haven't moved since Wednesday.  Original ETA - Saturday, 4/24.  Now showing Tuesday 4/27.  So a whopping 14 days from ordering to receipt.  PI7 ordered Wednesday am, first thing.  In an effort to keep me from switching to Crutchfied, I was promised by B&W to ship "same day".  Didn't ship until "next day".  Showing delivery 4/28 - one week after ordering.  I find all of this unacceptable and a perfect reminder of why I make it a point never to buy directly from the manufacturer.  How much extra would it really cost these places to ship via FedEx 2 day?  $5 bucks? Or use USPS priority which is significantly faster (although prone to more problems).


I ordered my MW08's around noon on Wednesday, 3/31, they shipped the next day (4/1) and arrived on Monday, 4/5.  I'm on the east coast.  They originally showed a 4/7 delivery, so it was nice to get them on 4/5.  Hope you're equally lucky.  Once you have them, you'll forget the shipping time.


----------



## darveniza

TK33 said:


> Can you elaborate on what you mean? Improves is a bit subjective.  Is it a bit less U or V shaped? Appreciate any color you can give.  From what I have read so far, sound signature of the MW08 and MW07 appear to be very similar except for some more bass on the MW08.  Thanks.


Sorry, got caught short yesterday. Bass is extended and a bit deeper. But it could be associated to fit improvement


----------



## SemiAudiophile

Just got confirmation that the UTWS3 has shipped!


----------



## ryguy1911

I have had the Sony WI-1000X since 2018. At no point have I ever heard something as a earbud sound as good for under $500. I went on Amazon and tried all the new 2021 stuff and a $100 pair of 2018 Sony's win.

NOTE - The Sony WI-1000XM2 is a DOWNGRADE in performance.
If you want a headphone Then the Sony WH-100XM3 (Not 2 or 4). Will give you the best sound without the extra features of the 4.

What I have not tried are the Sony True Wireless WX-1000XM3...I hope they sound like the WI-1000x or better.


----------



## tinyman392

SemiAudiophile said:


> Just got confirmation that the UTWS3 has shipped!


I spent like 2 hours updating my MMCX yesterday. Still need to do my 2-pin. It was giving me issues during update, but eventually gave in. Update seemed to have fixed volume issues.


----------



## SemiAudiophile

tinyman392 said:


> I spent like 2 hours updating my MMCX yesterday. Still need to do my 2-pin. It was giving me issues during update, but eventually gave in. Update seemed to have fixed volume issues.


Nice, I wish the UTWS3 had swappable adapters like the BT20s, but I guess I'll just settle with 3rd party adapters for now. 

I quite like the BT20s pro sound quality wise. They drive the EST 112 really well and can get to very loud volume levels. The P1 on the other hand sounds good but harder to drive at higher volume. The tonal balance with the P1 is great though, I don't notice the leaness I previously heard. One other thing I don't like about them is not having a battery indicator level for the case. It's just red when charging then blue when full.

The whole experience with the Bluetooth adapters has been a game changer though. I enjoy my IEMs a lot more now and can easily switch between them. Before I would have a ritual of opening a different case, untangling the wires, plugging in the dac/amp to my phone, etc. Spent a whole 2 min to setup. Now it's just plug and play and way more freedom!


----------



## Jmm722 (Apr 23, 2021)

miserybeforethemusic said:


> I mean that describes the EA75t pretty darn well and you also get ANC (not the best implementation, but not an original feature). It's not going to be the pinnacle of sound quality, but it's a darn good workout pair for energetic listening. Jaybirds used to bore me to tears.
> 
> They're also coated with something different and it helps them stay in my ears, but ymmv. I do appreciate their grippiness; it comes in handy (pun half-intended).


Thanks for the feedback.  I have the Active 65t and bought the 75t today.  I like them so far, but I’m always second guess every purchase (just demoed 5 subwoofers for my home theater before settling) and over analyze my purchases.

I think it’s because I grew up with little money and have to remind myself I can treat myself to whatever I want now.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

Jmm722 said:


> Thanks for the feedback.  I have the Active 65t and bought the 75t today.  I like them so far, but I’m always second guess every purchase (just demoed 5 subwoofers for my home theater before settling) and over analyze my purchases.
> 
> I think it’s because I grew up with little money and have to remind myself I can treat myself to whatever I want now.


Well I'm glad you like them and please don't feel like you have to apologize for wanting to make sure you get the right product for _you_. That's what forums like this are for. Ask away.


----------



## CocaCola15

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Yes, I have to avoid that comments section. Just filled with people saying _I'm order number 4XXX, when do I get mine_. Kudos to Status for replying back to every single one of them, though. I think that speaks a lot to your post-sales support concerns. Hopefully it's not an act, but I don't think Status has ever done anything shady in the past as is.
> 
> You said you've had experience with them in the past. What was the product?


The BT-One on-ear phones. You’ll find feedback on them on Amazon. I nabbed them for a ridiculous $49 with a coupon. They came off at $99 MSRP (the tan ones still are) but are $69 now. IMHO they Just sound .... right. Lots of Amazon  buyers seem to agree. I use them doing time in our massage chair. Anyway, the BT-One is a big reason I took a chance on the BPs.


----------



## alsorkin

erockg said:


> Defintitely call or email M&D.  This happened to me and I'm in CA!  After I called, suddenly my package moved.
> 
> Got my B&Ws in my ears right now.  They fit me better than my MW08.  Tighter.  Better seal.  They sound great (I'll compare with MW08 during the day).  Better mids than the MW08.  ANC blows away the MW08.  I put them in, the world went silent here at home.  Case is plastic.  Qi works well.  Two wishes - Volume control and for transparency to kick in when I pause music.  Guessing this can be fixed in a firmware update.  It's going to be a fun Friday!


Will be comparing to Falcon Pro?


erockg said:


> Defintitely call or email M&D.  This happened to me and I'm in CA!  After I called, suddenly my package moved.
> 
> Got my B&Ws in my ears right now.  They fit me better than my MW08.  Tighter.  Better seal.  They sound great (I'll compare with MW08 during the day).  Better mids than the MW08.  ANC blows away the MW08.  I put them in, the world went silent here at home.  Case is plastic.  Qi works well.  Two wishes - Volume control and for transparency to kick in when I pause music.  Guessing this can be fixed in a firmware update.  It's going to be a fun Friday!


----------



## alsorkin

C_Lindbergh said:


> Please share your impressions about the battery life and how well the case transmitter works for the PI7!
> 
> Hows the SQ and latency when using the PI7 with the case on a PC?


I am using the case as BT transmitter from my Sony TV. The sound quality very good when watching movie today. No latency issues. Paired to 2 Samsung smartphones and one DAP with excellent results.


----------



## alsorkin

alsorkin said:


> I am using the case as BT transmitter from my Sony TV. The sound quality very good when watching movie today. No latency issues. Paired to 2 Samsung smartphones and one DAP with excellent results.


After 2 hrs playing the movie Stowaway the battery was spent. I guess the earbuds plus case transmitting was a increased load. I will try over the weekend to be sure that I have 100% on both buds and case before running a movie on Netflix on the TV. Maybe a USB-C splitter would work with charging cable on one port while using the supplied USB-C to 3.5 cable on the other.


----------



## tinyman392

SemiAudiophile said:


> Nice, I wish the UTWS3 had swappable adapters like the BT20s, but I guess I'll just settle with 3rd party adapters for now.
> 
> I quite like the BT20s pro sound quality wise. They drive the EST 112 really well and can get to very loud volume levels. The P1 on the other hand sounds good but harder to drive at higher volume. The tonal balance with the P1 is great though, I don't notice the leaness I previously heard. One other thing I don't like about them is not having a battery indicator level for the case. It's just red when charging then blue when full.
> 
> The whole experience with the Bluetooth adapters has been a game changer though. I enjoy my IEMs a lot more now and can easily switch between them. Before I would have a ritual of opening a different case, untangling the wires, plugging in the dac/amp to my phone, etc. Spent a whole 2 min to setup. Now it's just plug and play and way more freedom!


I think I may have said this already, but I drive my P1 at around 50% volume with the BT20S Pro. The UTWS3 is a little more powerful though.


----------



## bladefd

alsorkin said:


> I am using the case as BT transmitter from my Sony TV. The sound quality very good when watching movie today. No latency issues. Paired to 2 Samsung smartphones and one DAP with excellent results.


I'm curious what sort of data cable do you connect to the case? USB-C?


----------



## alsorkin

bladefd said:


> I'm curious what sort of data cable do you connect to the case? USB-C?


It is the one supplied =


bladefd said:


> I'm curious what sort of data cable do you connect to the case? USB-C?



with usb-c on the case side and 3.5mm on the source input side.


----------



## C_Lindbergh (Apr 24, 2021)

alsorkin said:


> After 2 hrs playing the movie Stowaway the battery was spent. I guess the earbuds plus case transmitting was a increased load. I will try over the weekend to be sure that I have 100% on both buds and case before running a movie on Netflix on the TV. Maybe a USB-C splitter would work with charging cable on one port while using the supplied USB-C to 3.5 cable on the other.



OH wow, just 2 hours :/

I guess that's why we haven't seen this technology before...

Still impressive tho.

But what if you hook it up via a USB cable? Will the case charge and play audio from the P17 at the same time?


----------



## Charlyro222

Saturday Shootout


----------



## alsorkin

C_Lindbergh said:


> OH wow, just 2 hours :/
> 
> I guess that's why we haven't seen this technology before...
> 
> ...


I ordered a splitter to do that.


----------



## zeinharis

Finding a new tips for both my Sony and Nual, Tanchjim T300T (treble version, not the T300B bass version).







(apologize for the dirty carpet LOL)

The T300T is a great alternative if you don’t want to deal with Xelastec’s sticky nature. Sound wise, longer decay on the upper frequencies (just a tad) vs shorter on xelastec, T300T doesn’t add too much midbass compared to xelastec but both hits deep and fast with good textures. Both have good effects on the midrange, makes vocals (both male and female) very engaging enough for me without feeling fatigued for long listening sessions. Both have the same characteristics in terms of soundstage and seperation


----------



## bladefd

C_Lindbergh said:


> OH wow, just 2 hours :/
> 
> I guess that's why we haven't seen this technology before...
> 
> ...


They will probably improve the battery in 2nd edition. Battery seems to be the biggest limitation in 1st edition, and I'm sure they know it. 

I suspect that the high cost per pair is also due to high research costs being priced - later editions will most likely get cheaper.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

zeinharis said:


> Finding a new tips for both my Sony and Nual, Tanchjim T300T (treble version, not the T300B bass version).
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Can also vouch that the standard SednaFit variants are also not sticky like the Xelastec. Fwiw, I love what the SednaFit do to my Blessing 2, enough so that I'll probably be adding a couple sets of the Crystal for the TWS to share some love. And it'll need to be a lot of love to improve upon what those Final TWS already do for comfort.


bladefd said:


> They will probably improve the battery in 2nd edition. Battery seems to be the biggest limitation in 1st edition, and I'm sure they know it.
> 
> I suspect that the high cost per pair is also due to high research costs being priced - later editions will most likely get cheaper.


I don't know where they'd fit it, to be honest. If the battery limitation is on the bud end, it seems they've kinda maximized their already-available space. A bigger battery might require a complete redesign.

The battery spec concerned me when I heard about it on release; if I had to guess, they're using some pretty high-current amplification for the drivers inside. On the plus, it makes them sound fantastic, but battery drain is the trade-off. Toss in transmit/receive requirements for the case, too, and that's a lot of need for power.

I don't think B&W intended for these to be all-day TWS.


----------



## zeinharis

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Can also vouch that the standard SednaFit variants are also not sticky like the Xelastec. Fwiw, I love what the SednaFit do to my Blessing 2, enough so that I'll probably be adding a couple sets of the Crystal for the TWS to share some love. And it'll need to be a lot of love to improve upon what those Final TWS already do for comfort.
> 
> I don't know where they'd fit it, to be honest. If the battery limitation is on the bud end, it seems they've kinda maximized their already-available space. A bigger battery might require a complete redesign.
> 
> ...


One thing I found bothering about Sedna (at least for me) is about the decay on the upper frequencies, it’s too fast to be accurate, while the Tanchjim keeps those upper frequencies feels more accurate.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

zeinharis said:


> One thing I found bothering about Sedna (at least for me) is about the decay on the upper frequencies, it’s too fast to be accurate, while the Tanchjim keeps those upper frequencies feels more accurate.


Might vary from IEM to IEM, then. They make the B2's treble sparkle without ever getting sibilant or tizzy. Midrange performance with them is also just sublime.

I'll keep that in mind on the Crystal, though, and will see if I can't find a decent source for the Tanchjim.


----------



## C_Lindbergh

miserybeforethemusic said:


> I don't think B&W intended for these to be all-day TWS.



They're barely  a 1/3 day tws at this point


----------



## jant71

C_Lindbergh said:


> They're barely  a 1/3 day tws at this point


What? You just gotta just them on your lunch hour. Then you might just make it the rest of the day.   15 minute quick charge for one hour is really old school. Now we have 10 minutes can give 4 hours even before LE will begin. Heard we will have full charge in 15 minutes with LE and newer batteries pretty soon.


----------



## C_Lindbergh (Apr 24, 2021)

jant71 said:


> What? You just gotta just them on your lunch hour. Then you might just make it the rest of the day.   15 minute quick charge for one hour is really old school. Now we have 10 minutes can give 4 hours even before LE will begin. Heard we will have full charge in 15 minutes with LE and newer batteries pretty soon.



You'll still have to put them down and charge them, there's plenty of  instances were  I want the charge to last longer than a few hours.

Even tho the battery degregation from all the increased charging cycles are a far greater issue.


----------



## erockg (Apr 24, 2021)

C_Lindbergh said:


> You'll still have to put them down and charge them, there's plenty of  instances were  I want the charge to last longer than a few hours.
> 
> Even tho the battery degregation from all the increased charging cycles are a far greater issue.


I used my PI7s all day yesterday.  Loved every minute.  Yes, they ran for about say 4 hours of on and off use.  Quick charged while I made lunch and got back to it.  Made calls etc.  Even though I have the MW08, NFPs and others that have up to ten hours of battery life, I've never hit that mark.  B&W did a nice job.  They're worth the penny to me, but I'm a junkie.


----------



## C_Lindbergh

erockg said:


> I used my PI7s all day yesterday.  Loved every minute.  Yes, they ran hour after say 4 hours of on and off use.  Quick charged while I made lunch and got back to it.  Made calls etc.  Even though I have the MW08, NFPs and others that have up to ten hours of battery life, I've never hit that mark.  B&W did a nice job.  They're worth the penny to me, but I'm a junkie.



I'm not saying that you're unhappy now, im just saying that in the near future the battery life will be even worse, not long after that you'll have to throw them away despite them being in a fully working condition.

If you use them frequently each day, and have to get 2 charging cycles going each day I don't think it will take too long for the degration to show its effect on that intial low battery life. Meaning you'll have to charge them even more.

Nonetheless it will be really interesting to follow 

Either way, it's a major win for B&W, this must be a dream product for them when it comes money, they're essentially selling a disposable wireless IEM for 400 EUR.


----------



## jant71

C_Lindbergh said:


> You'll still have to put them down and charge them, there's plenty of  instances were  I want the charge to last longer than a few hours.
> 
> Even tho the battery degregation from all the increased charging cycles are a far greater issue.


Though I jest about pretty soon or I mean they have new batteries that charge fast w/o much degradation and all so we will have that in existence but seeing that in TWS pretty soon is probably not happening.

Though I'll be fair to the B&W as My AT(not the TWS) that has the built in amp only gets 5 hours over BT but I do appreciate the sound. I'm sure more and more TWS will have amps fit into them. Cambridge and Hifiman use them and obviously a few others. Once we combine the the better frequency range of LE and have some new more efficient amps in TWS we will go nicely beyond the Touch and B&W  for sound esp. with LC3+ and battery life.  I believe a nice jump won't be too far off.


----------



## C_Lindbergh

jant71 said:


> Though I jest about pretty soon or I mean they have new batteries that charge fast w/o much degradation and all so we will have that in existence but seeing that in TWS pretty soon is probably not happening.
> 
> Though I'll be fair to the B&W as My AT(not the TWS) that has the built in amp only gets 5 hours over BT but I do appreciate the sound. I'm sure more and more TWS will have amps fit into them. Cambridge and Hifiman use them and obviously a few others. Once we combine the the better frequency range of LE and have some new more efficient amps in TWS we will go nicely beyond the Touch and B&W  for sound esp. with LC3+ and battery life.  I believe a nice jump won't be too far off.



Yea, L3/LC3 will be a total game changer in so many ways, after that the only major technological acgivement that's left is pretty much next gen battery tech. However who knows when that will finally arrive to us mortal consumers.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

erockg said:


> I used my PI7s all day yesterday.  Loved every minute.  Yes, they ran hour after say 4 hours of on and off use.  Quick charged while I made lunch and got back to it.  Made calls etc.  Even though I have the MW08, NFPs and others that have up to ten hours of battery life, I've never hit that mark.  B&W did a nice job.  They're worth the penny to me, but I'm a junkie.


I believe the politically correct term is "enthusiast."


----------



## erockg

C_Lindbergh said:


> I'm not saying that you're unhappy now, im just saying that in the near future the battery life will be even worse, not long after that you'll have to throw them away despite them being in a fully working condition.
> 
> If you use them frequently each day, and have to get 2 charging cycles going each day I don't think it will take too long for the degration to show its effect on that intial low battery life. Meaning you'll have to charge them even more.
> 
> ...


My mental issue is, I usually sell my gear before they even degrade!  They sound very very good.  But yes, quite pricey.  That said, tech changes so fast it's hard to keep up.  It's all by design.  As someone said on here a few days ago, go big or go home.  Sadly, I agree.  The fit, the ANC and the sound on the PI7 is just perfect for me.  The big test for me is outdoors.  If they cut out while walking in a park, they'll get returned.  Here we go!


----------



## erockg

miserybeforethemusic said:


> I believe the politically correct term is "enthusiast."


Ha ha! Right.


----------



## C_Lindbergh

erockg said:


> My mental issue is, I usually sell my gear before they even degrade!  They sound very very good.  But yes, quite pricey.  That said, tech changes so fast it's hard to keep up.  It's all by design.  As someone said on here a few days ago, go big or go home.  Sadly, I agree.  The fit, the ANC and the sound on the PI7 is just perfect for me.  The big test for me is outdoors.  If they cut out while walking in a park, they'll get returned.  Here we go!



I wouldn't really argue about the price if the battery wasn't like first gen TWS, I got no problem with pricy TWS if they deliver.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

C_Lindbergh said:


> I wouldn't really argue about the price if the battery wasn't like first gen TWS, I got no problem with pricy TWS if they deliver.


Wild speculation, but is it possible that the battery issue is why we saw the PI5 and PI7 vanish from view right after we heard about it? Maybe they were planning to release earlier and realized a little too late that battery life was going to be a sticking point for some people. Went back to try and quick-fix, couldn't, and that's why we're seeing what we're seeing?

Forgive me. Just trying to connect the dots.


----------



## C_Lindbergh

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Wild speculation, but is it possible that the battery issue is why we saw the PI5 and PI7 vanish from view right after we heard about it? Maybe they were planning to release earlier and realized a little too late that battery life was going to be a sticking point for some people. Went back to try and quick-fix, couldn't, and that's why we're seeing what we're seeing?
> 
> Forgive me. Just trying to connect the dots.


Well they don't like to talk about it that's for sure ^^

On the official page there's no mention of battery life, you'll have to go the support page or into the manual to find out about it.

https://www.bowerswilkins.com/net/headphones/pi7

It's also quite fun that they claim "up to 4 hours" in the manual, but on the support page they claim that you should only espect 3.5 hours.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

C_Lindbergh said:


> Well they don't like to talk about it that's for sure ^^
> 
> On the official page there's no mention of battery life, you'll have to go the support page or into the manual to find out about it.
> 
> ...


Some of the test conditions that people _publish_ are bad enough. Things like 15% volume, 0.5ft proximity, or some other completely unrealistic. If they come remotely close to target, then I consider myself happy.


----------



## alsorkin

bladefd said:


> Man, next generation with low energy Bluetooth in tws and perhaps more of this b&w pi7 idea of the case as transmitter in your pocket or table top could be insane. Battery life, sound quality all could improve further while the buds stay the same exact size (more so resemble the MT/mtw2 in size/design than say the massive Sony xm3 or AZ70 that jut too far outwards). Then you can fit in any codec you want and you will see larger driver sizes perhaps up to 15mm packed into tiny tws.


I find that the P17 cares a lot about BT signal strength on the transmitting source. My Samsung smartphones operate very well without stuttering when coupled to the P17 and moving around my small house. With my 3 DAPs I have considerable interruptions moving around in the same areas.


----------



## michsu

So Bose and Master Dynamics mw08 are still the better ones for now? I’m looking to buy some new wireless earbuds. Can anyone recommend? I looked at some different reviews and comparing the ANC. Bose has best ANC, but is their music quality good enough? Thanks.


----------



## BigZ12

erockg said:


> I used my PI7s all day yesterday.  Loved every minute.  Yes, they ran for about say 4 hours of on and off use.  Quick charged while I made lunch and got back to it.  Made calls etc.  Even though I have the MW08, NFPs and others that have up to ten hours of battery life, I've never hit that mark.  B&W did a nice job.  They're worth the penny to me, but I'm a junkie.


Is this right?
- No volume control on the buds?
- No ambient mode switch using the buds' touch control? (only with using the phone app?)
- 3,5-4 hours of battery life?
The sound quality and ANC must be really good for these to be interesting then? With that price tag too.


----------



## erockg

BigZ12 said:


> Is this right?
> - No volume control on the buds?
> - No ambient mode switch using the buds' touch control? (only with using the phone app?)
> - 3,5-4 hours of battery life?
> The sound quality and ANC must be really good for these to be interesting then? With that price tag too.


Correct.  Sound and ANC is great.  I’m very happy.


----------



## vladzakhar

After one day with P17 I decided to keep them, simply because they sound better when NFPs in my opinion. Not much, but better resolution and separation.
Also, they don't have this awful driver flex I have with NFPs. Of course, the battery life is a big minus but I can live with that. 
ANC is ok. Falcons isolate the outside noise as good without ANC. 
The case is little big, but nice in the hand and I can close the lid with spin fit tips.
Also, P17s are quiet. I have to crank up the volume on my Iphone to almost 90% when walking outside.
I didn't have any complains when talking on the phone using P17s. I guess, they are good for it.
They are very comfy and light and not as big as I thought.


----------



## alsorkin

vladzakhar said:


> After one day with P17 I decided to keep them, simply because they sound better when NFPs in my opinion. Not much, but better resolution and separation.
> Also, they don't have this awful driver flex I have with NFPs. Of course, the battery life is a big minus but I can live with that.
> ANC is ok. Falcons isolate the outside noise as good without ANC.
> The case is little big, but nice in the hand and I can close the lid with spin fit tips.
> ...


Your impressions match mine when compared to the NFP.


----------



## BigZ12

erockg said:


> Correct.  Sound and ANC is great.  I’m very happy.


Can you compare them ANC- and sound wise to the MTW2?


----------



## AmericanSpirit (Apr 25, 2021)

It’s not IEM, but I just ordered a pair of Senn’s probably last legacy for consumer HD series cans, HD560S to salute and farewell, with a side ordet of 2.5mm male to 2.5mm male balanced sure silver cable.  Then I suddenly noticed it could be modded as aptx HD & LDAC wireless headphone with balanced amp! I honestly can’t tell the difference between wired/wireless now, nice buy it was! (Not for outside use, because HD560S is open-back, and the outlook is kinda too nerdy😂 But it’s good for indoor!











[Edit] outlook updated


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

vladzakhar said:


> After one day with P17 I decided to keep them, simply because they sound better when NFPs in my opinion. Not much, but better resolution and separation.
> Also, they don't have this awful driver flex I have with NFPs. Of course, the battery life is a big minus but I can live with that.
> ANC is ok. Falcons isolate the outside noise as good without ANC.
> The case is little big, but nice in the hand and I can close the lid with spin fit tips.
> ...


Are you sure that's not aptX Adaptive distortion you're hearing? Thought I had driver flex with my NFPs, but it turned out to be the codec. I get nothing remotely resembling flex when I'm only using aptX vs Adaptive.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic (Apr 24, 2021)

AmericanSpirit said:


> It’s not IEM, but I just ordered a pair of Senn’s probably last legacy for consumer HD series cans, HD560S to salute and farewell, with a side ordet of 2.5mm male to 2.5mm male balanced sure silver cable.  Then I suddenly noticed it could be modded as aptx HD wireless headphone with balanced amp! I honestly can’t tell the difference between wired/wireless now, nice buy it was! (Not for outside use, because HD560S is open-back, and the outlook is kinda too nerdy😂 But it’s good for indoor!


Hahaha I think you might be cheating a bit!

Honestly, the thought of doing something like that myself has definitely come across my mind; think at that point I'd rather just deal with the wires, but sounds like it's working well for you.

Took the FITS to the dog park today. Never budged. Never glitched. No adjustments needed. These used to be given requirements, but now I guess they're things we should make note of. Still can't see a scenario where these leave my collection.

Glad everybody who got the PI7 is happy with them! Glad their sound/features are worthy of the price tag.


----------



## AmericanSpirit

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Hahaha I think you might be cheating a bit!
> 
> Honestly, the thought of doing something like that myself has definitely come across my mind; think at that point I'd rather just deal with the wires, but sounds like it's working well for you.
> 
> ...


Haha I just prefer cans when watching TV etc,  so HD560S as the dead flat neutral reference with lighter body vs HD600 was a perfect match👍  It’s not a biggy to just clip on cloth but haha just out of whim😂


----------



## erockg

BigZ12 said:


> Can you compare them ANC- and sound wise to the MTW2?


In my opinion the ANC is comparable to the MTWs, but I haven't had them in about 6 months so I cannot compare today.  I prefer the sound of the PI7 over the Sennies.  I always found the bass to be muddy on those MTW 1 & 2 no matter how hard I tried.  The PI7s bass has more of a punch.  I'm loving them.  Just took them on a walk to a farmers market with my family.  No dropouts, kept transparency on so I could listen to a baseball game while with everyone.  Perfection.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

AmericanSpirit said:


> Haha I just prefer cans when watching TV etc,  so HD560S as the dead flat neutral reference with lighter body vs HD600 was a perfect match👍  It’s not a biggy to just clip on cloth but haha just out of whim😂


I'll do the same with some of the TWS here if the kiddos are in bed and I want to listen a little louder (or for the political stuff so the wife stays happy). Definitely a good use case!

Have you been considering any of the True Wireless that are out there? Can't remember if you ended up with a pair of the Spark, but we'd love to hear your take on them if you did.


----------



## PixelSquish

What's going on with the Cambridge MT? Any of the connecting glitches fixed with the latest firmware? Any word on a hardware revision so they sit better in the case? Or is nothing going to happen until the next gen?


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

PixelSquish said:


> What's going on with the Cambridge MT? Any of the connecting glitches fixed with the latest firmware? Any word on a hardware revision so they sit better in the case? Or is nothing going to happen until the next gen?


I haven't had any issues. Seems like I also don't have any issues where the buds auto-connect back up with the phone while they're in the case if they're not perfectly aligned, which I did have issues with pre-update.

The only glitches I know that I and someone else have seen relate to the update process itself; my OnePlus 8T just doesn't like updating these earbuds, but that issue doesn't carry over to my spare device (Pixel 3a) and updates happen without issue.

I'll say this: for now, they're back on my recommended list and would currently sit as my top pick in that "midrange" category ($100-200) for most users.


----------



## AmericanSpirit

miserybeforethemusic said:


> I'll do the same with some of the TWS here if the kiddos are in bed and I want to listen a little louder (or for the political stuff so the wife stays happy). Definitely a good use case!
> 
> Have you been considering any of the True Wireless that are out there? Can't remember if you ended up with a pair of the Spark, but we'd love to hear your take on them if you did.


The spark preorder got suspended, They claim they are having hard time to get US electronic communication license for Sparks, they are expecting to delay official release until this summer. But yes I’m definitely after the sparks, the FR looks sweet.  My current TWSs are airpods pro and TRN VX (with TRN BT20Pro), I tried those TWS tails for many IEMs but many of them showed less forgiving compensations in sound quality, so I just hooked a well-made chi-fi TRN VX for fun.

Hope there are some LDAC or Aptx HD BT modules..


----------



## alsorkin (Apr 24, 2021)

AmericanSpirit said:


> It’s not IEM, but I just ordered a pair of Senn’s probably last legacy for consumer HD series cans, HD560S to salute and farewell, with a side ordet of 2.5mm male to 2.5mm male balanced sure silver cable.  Then I suddenly noticed it could be modded as aptx HD & LDAC wireless headphone with balanced amp! I honestly can’t tell the difference between wired/wireless now, nice buy it was! (Not for outside use, because HD560S is open-back, and the outlook is kinda too nerdy😂 But it’s good for indoor!


I did something similar using the Qudelix-5K Bluetooth DAC AMP with 2.5mm balanced plug from HD-820 or Focal Elegia equipped with a short 3ft custom Corpse Cable Gravedigger cable. Easy to walk around with the DAC AMP in a pants pocket (or pajamas these days!). 5K also has clip built-in to attach to clothing.


----------



## AmericanSpirit

alsorkin said:


> I did something similar using the Qudelix-5K Bluetooth DAC AMP with 2.5mm balanced plug from HD-820 or Focal Elegia equipped with a short 3ft custom Corpse Cable Gravedigger cable. Easy to walk around with the DAC AMP in a pants pocket (or pajamas these days!)


Lol yes pajamas with no pants!


----------



## darveniza

BigZ12 said:


> Is this right?
> - No volume control on the buds?
> - No ambient mode switch using the buds' touch control? (only with using the phone app?)
> - 3,5-4 hours of battery life?
> The sound quality and ANC must be really good for these to be interesting then? With that price tag too.


I believe those are all correct. But the UE Fits also started that way and with one software update they added a bunch of items. Hopefully these follow the same route


----------



## erockg

darveniza said:


> I believe those are all correct. But the UE Fits also started that way and with one software update they added a bunch of items. Hopefully these follow the same route


The med Symbio tips work very nicely on the PI7.  This track is just killer:


----------



## C_Lindbergh (Apr 25, 2021)

Do the P17 case charge when it's in transmission mode hooked up to a USB port? If it doesn't work ,does it work if you put the case under a charging pad?

Will the earbuds connect to the case source or phone when you take the earbuds out as the case are plugged in via 3.5 mm/USB?

Also do you have to use the USB-C to USB C cable provided? I suppose it also work with any USB C - USB A cable?


----------



## smith

Any Devialet Gemini owners here, how are they volume wise...Do you have they need a lot of volume . I have a Iphone and thinking of checking them out when they become available again next month.


----------



## clerkpalmer

alsorkin said:


> Any Devialet Gemini owners here, how are they volume wise...Do you have they need a lot of volume . I have a Iphone and thinking of checking them out when they become available again next month.


They get pretty loud. Can’t imagine anyone thinking low volume is an issue.


----------



## dasadab

C_Lindbergh said:


> Do the P17 case charge when it's in transmission mode hooked up to a USB port? If it doesn't work ,does it work if you put the case under a charging pad?
> 
> Will the earbuds connect to the case source or phone when you take the earbuds out as the case are plugged in via 3.5 mm/USB?
> 
> Also do you have to use the USB-C to USB C cable provided? I suppose it also work with any USB C - USB A cable?


I wanted to add a question as a potential B&W PI7 Buyer:  Watching a YouTube video review, it seemed like the case allows higher bit rate/resolution than transmitting from a source directly to the earbuds?  Can anyone clarify for me?


----------



## clerkpalmer

dasadab said:


> I wanted to add a question as a potential B&W PI7 Buyer:  Watching a YouTube video review, it seemed like the case allows higher bit rate/resolution than transmitting from a source directly to the earbuds?  Can anyone clarify for me?


Yes and no. If you aptx adaptive on your phone you can get hi res via regular streaming. Otherwise the YouTube video was correct. You can use the case to bridge any source including hi res files like tidal. The case transmit via bluetooth to the phone at a higher bitrate than AAC or Aptx. So if you want hi res and don’t have aptx adaptive, use the case as a bridge.


----------



## clerkpalmer

Actually reading up on this, now I’m confused. This has been reported widely however in researching this it says the case to buds transmit via aptx LL which would not in fact be hi res. Can anyone clarify?


----------



## alsorkin

clerkpalmer said:


> Actually reading up on this, now I’m confused. This has been reported widely however in researching this it says the case to buds transmit via aptx LL which would not in fact be hi res. Can anyone clarify?


Directly from the B&W support person last week the case will transmit APEX HD.


----------



## clerkpalmer

alsorkin said:


> Directly from the B&W support person last week the case will transmit APEX HD.


Thanks. Phew. Although I’ve come to not trust customer support as often they have no clue. That seems pretty specific though.


----------



## clerkpalmer

clerkpalmer said:


> Thanks. Phew. Although I’ve come to not trust customer support as often they have no clue. That seems pretty specific though.


Does it seem strange that the buds can receive aptx hd from the case but not a phone?


----------



## C_Lindbergh

alsorkin said:


> Directly from the B&W support person last week the case will transmit APEX HD.



But then you should have quite some latency when streaming from a PC or TV?


----------



## alsorkin

C_Lindbergh said:


> But then you should have quite some latency when streaming from a PC or TV?


No latency observed from my Sony Bravia TV headphone plugin.


----------



## clerkpalmer

C_Lindbergh said:


> But then you should have quite some latency when streaming from a PC or TV?


I trust what alsorkin was told but I need to get to the bottom this. AptxLL makes more sense to me than AptxHD given the use case. Also I struggle with why they have enabled AptxHD on the buds but then limit it to the case only. That does not make any sense. If they can receive AptxHD from the case they should receive it from any device. The only sources I found say aptx Ll. Has anyone tried to force AptxHD on these?


----------



## clerkpalmer

alsorkin said:


> No latency observed from my Sony Bravia TV headphone plugin.


This suggests it is using aptx LL then. HD has high latency.


----------



## alsorkin

clerkpalmer said:


> I trust what alsorkin was told but I need to get to the bottom this. AptxLL makes more sense to me than AptxHD given the use case. Also I struggle with why they have enabled AptxHD on the buds but then limit it to the case only. That does not make any sense. If they can receive AptxHD from the case they should receive it from any device. The only sources I found say aptx Ll. Has anyone tried to force AptxHD on these?


I suggest you call B&W support to get answers on this


----------



## clerkpalmer

alsorkin said:


> I suggest you call B&W support to get answers on this


I will but in my experience with customer support with other consumer audio companies they are often misinformed and or just wrong. This is pretty technical. I’ll see what I can find out but it’s probably beyond the skill set of the average customer rep.


----------



## clerkpalmer

clerkpalmer said:


> I will but in my experience with customer support with other consumer audio companies they are often misinformed and or just wrong. This is pretty technical. I’ll see what I can find out but it’s probably beyond the skill set of the average customer rep.


Trusted Reviews is quoting that they support AptxHD as a stand-alone codec.  Seems like lot of confusion. 

Erockg have you tried to force AptxHD?


----------



## clerkpalmer

This is from PCMag:

“The charging case then streams whatever you’ve connected—such as an airplane jack, a computer, or an old MP3 player—in aptX Adaptive quality (up to 24-bit/48kHz) to the earphones.”

so we have heard LL, Adaptive and HD. Lol.


----------



## alsorkin

clerkpalmer said:


> Trusted Reviews is quoting that they support AptxHD as a stand-alone codec.  Seems like lot of confusion.
> 
> Erockg have you tried to force AptxHD?


I found B&W customer support to be more technical believable than typical.


----------



## clerkpalmer (Apr 25, 2021)

Well we have an answer. I emailed the B&W rep listed on the press release. He just responded that it is indeed AptxLL between the case and the buds.  This is a major bmmer. It was nice of him to respond on a Sunday. My excitement level is subdued. No hi res support which was the only real excuse for the battery life.


----------



## alsorkin

clerkpalmer said:


> Well we have an answer. I emailed the B&W rep listed on the press release. He just responded that it is indeed AptxLL between the case and the buds.  This is a major bmmer. It was nice of him to respond on a Sunday. My excitement level is subdued. No hi res support which was the only real excuse for the battery life.


So which rep to believe?


----------



## clerkpalmer

alsorkin said:


> So which rep to believe?


This is the individual identified on the official press release for the PI7 but it’s certainly a fair point. It really doesn’t make any sense for them to use AptxHD between the case and the buds but not otherwise. That would be a very strange design choice. And you mentioned no latency and AptxHD has significant latency. So I think all  evidence points to AptxLL.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

alsorkin said:


> So which rep to believe?


Hot take: none of them.

Assume it's LL, though there are ways to account for latency with aptX HD that are done on the backend to avoid lip-sync issues.

I don't get it. B&W had the PX series and smashed it. What happened with power management here?


----------



## clerkpalmer

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Hot take: none of them.
> 
> Assume it's LL, though there are ways to account for latency with aptX HD that are done on the backend to avoid lip-sync issues.
> 
> I don't get it. B&W had the PX series and smashed it. What happened with power management here?


The guy answered very matter of factly. He seemed very confident. I followed up with some questions and am waiting for a further response. It was you or someone else that was speculating that the battery was the reason for the delay. It also could have been that they were gunning for full AptxHD but ditched it in favor of battery life. Aptx Adaptive is a really bizarre choice.


----------



## johnston21 (Apr 25, 2021)

Have yet to (previously) know of a BT Rx aptx Adaptive chip that has aptx LL as well.

Looking fwd to testing with the FiiO BTA30.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

clerkpalmer said:


> The guy answered very matter of factly. He seemed very confident. I followed up with some questions and am waiting for a further response. It was you or someone else that was speculating that the battery was the reason for the delay. It also could have been that they were gunning for full AptxHD but ditched it in favor of battery life. Aptx Adaptive is a really bizarre choice.


Interesting and you might be right. Could very well have been Qualcomm or another one of the big guys setting certification terms they couldn't meet.


----------



## C_Lindbergh (Apr 25, 2021)

Well if you're not getting any noticeable latency then the case is using APTX LL, at least if you watch some live tv or playing a game.

Unless the case is the very first with an APTX Adaptive transmitter, I've waited ever since APTX Adaptive was launched for one of those )

They've also finally listed the P17 on Amazon.de for us in mainland Europe 

https://www.amazon.de/-/en/Wireless...ywords=bowers+&+wilkins&qid=1619380373&sr=8-4


----------



## MaccaUK

clerkpalmer said:


> I trust what alsorkin was told but I need to get to the bottom this. AptxLL makes more sense to me than AptxHD given the use case. Also I struggle with why they have enabled AptxHD on the buds but then limit it to the case only. That does not make any sense. If they can receive AptxHD from the case they should receive it from any device. The only sources I found say aptx Ll. Has anyone tried to force AptxHD on these?


My Hiby R6 2020 is connected by AptX HD to the Pi7. Quality is stunning - I’m hearing things that I’ve never heard with any other headphones I own. Not tried the case to transmit yet, so cannot comment on the quality or codec used.


----------



## dj24 (Apr 25, 2021)

If you're dead set on getting the P17's  now and are willing to go through a few steps to get the sticker price down a bit, Touch Of Modern has them for $319 with their sitewide 20% off sale.  You'll have to set up an account first though before doing anything..

https://www.touchofmodern.com/

Edit:  P15's are $200.


----------



## Jester0fTortuga

Adaptive from the case bridge would make more sense than LL because it can transmit to the PX7, which does not support LL, but does support adaptive.


----------



## clerkpalmer

Jester0fTortuga said:


> Adaptive from the case bridge would make more sense than LL because it can transmit to the PX7, which does not support LL, but does support adaptive.


Losing confidence in my contact. Here is another statement which I can’t comprehend:




> “The case is definitely Aptx LL you can send a hi-res signal to the case but it will transmit it as Aptx LL.
> The buds will be set to the highest level of whatever they are connected to, so if the source has Aptx HD, that's what the buds will receive.”


----------



## clerkpalmer

clerkpalmer said:


> Losing confidence in my contact. Here is another statement which I can’t comprehend:


Reading this back to myself he seems to be saying the buds support AptxHD directly which is bizarre since it’s not in any of the marketing materials. But then again Aptx Adaptive seems to include AptxHD so maybe this is just a really poor job of explaining things.


----------



## clerkpalmer

MaccaUK said:


> My Hiby R6 2020 is connected by AptX HD to the Pi7. Quality is stunning - I’m hearing things that I’ve never heard with any other headphones I own. Not tried the case to transmit yet, so cannot comment on the quality or codec used.


So they handle AptxHD directly and without the need for the case?


----------



## mxdemian

For anyone that has a pair of the pi7s, how does the ANC compare with Bose QC earbuds?


----------



## johnston21 (Apr 25, 2021)

Even the specs in the User Manual are confusing as in one section they list all, and in the other they list only aptx Classic, AAC, and SBC


----------



## MaccaUK

clerkpalmer said:


> So they handle AptxHD directly and without the need for the case?


Correct. My understanding is that AptX Adaptive is backwards compatible with HD. My Hiby does not support adaptive, so defaults to HD. On the document I downloaded from the B&W site in the UK it states the following codes are supported;

AptX – Adaptive
AptX – HD
AptX – Low Latency
AptX – Classic
AAC
SBC


----------



## clerkpalmer

MaccaUK said:


> Correct. My understanding is that AptX Adaptive is backwards compatible with HD. My Hiby does not support adaptive, so defaults to HD. On the document I downloaded from the B&W site in the UK it states the following codes are supported;
> 
> AptX – Adaptive
> AptX – HD
> ...


That would be very nice and a terrible job marketing these. Why not lead with AptxHD as the main draw? I’ll have mine on Wednesday and will see if they connect to my pixel vial AptxHD.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

MaccaUK said:


> Correct. My understanding is that AptX Adaptive is backwards compatible with HD. My Hiby does not support adaptive, so defaults to HD. On the document I downloaded from the B&W site in the UK it states the following codes are supported;
> 
> AptX – Adaptive
> AptX – HD
> ...


Here's where things get interesting. My OnePlus 8T can support that entire suite of codecs. My Noble Falcon Pro can only support SBC, AAC, aptX, or Adaptive. I cannot select aptX HD, even though my Etymotion cable can.

I have a feeling aptX Adaptive is just a bit of a confusing mess and, as with most new technologies, isn't quite ready for primetime.


----------



## clerkpalmer

Here is more clarity from B&W:

“Apologies Timothy, I misunderstood your original question.
As with all Bluetooth headphones, it's the source that sets the transmission codeq. So if the buds directly connect to an iPhone it will be using AAC.
If the phone or tablet is Aptx HD compatible the buds will directly connect using Aptx-HD.
To have the full quality of Aptx Adaptive you need a compatible phone which gives you the potential of 24bit 48Khz. In that case the buds would connect using Aptx Adaptive.
I’ve attached a spec sheet so you can see all the codeqs you can use.
I think the journalists are misunderstanding the purpose of the case. Primarily its for air travel which is why you get a 3.5mm jack to USB-C cable in the box and there’s an ADC in the case itself.
You can also connect it digitally and there’s also a USB—C to USB-C cable in the box. This can be used for connecting to MACs etc. The output of the case is fixed at Aptx LL which in theory is higher quality than AAC. But the benefit of the case is convenience.”



I will contact our American colleagues and ask them to get CNET to correct the review”


----------



## clerkpalmer

It appears that in a rush, the marketing message must have gotten mixed up. They should have focused on AptxHD.


----------



## clerkpalmer

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Here's where things get interesting. My OnePlus 8T can support that entire suite of codecs. My Noble Falcon Pro can only support SBC, AAC, aptX, or Adaptive. I cannot select aptX HD, even though my Etymotion cable can.
> 
> I have a feeling aptX Adaptive is just a bit of a confusing mess and, as with most new technologies, isn't quite ready for primetime.


Yeah that’s a head scratcher.


----------



## TK33

clerkpalmer said:


> Actually reading up on this, now I’m confused. This has been reported widely however in researching this it says the case to buds transmit via aptx LL which would not in fact be hi res. Can anyone clarify?


I also read aptX LL somewhere which would explain why there does not seem to be latency issues but that also probably means it is not hires and lesser quality vs. aptX. Seems to be a lot of confusion around this and I have read different things online as well.


----------



## MaccaUK

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Here's where things get interesting. My OnePlus 8T can support that entire suite of codecs. My Noble Falcon Pro can only support SBC, AAC, aptX, or Adaptive. I cannot select aptX HD, even though my Etymotion cable can.
> 
> I have a feeling aptX Adaptive is just a bit of a confusing mess and, as with most new technologies, isn't quite ready for primetime.


In the UK, the 8T only supports AptX Classic, HD, AAC & LDAC?


----------



## FYLegend

Those with SoundPeats T2: Does your box say "Active Noise Control" or "Active Noise Cancelling" and 25 hours battery life or 30 hours? Mine says Active Noise Cancelling and 30 hours, and according to SoundPeats (via Amazon) it is supposed to be a newer unit that addresses clipping issues with louder volumes. So far I am a bit disappointed by the case battery life, it seems to drain within 2 days of use, even though the buds themselves remain above 90% at the end of my listening session. When the case battery is depleted, the earbuds also don't power off in the case, and if you have ambient sound on it causes a high-pitched feedback. Fortunately, you can power them on/off by holding the touch controls for over 6 seconds. It's great that these have touch controls for pairing mode, so I don't have to go into Bluetooth settings on the device I am disconnecting with, but the touch hold overlaps too closely with power on/off. 

I have tested tracks at high volume and experienced no clipping. However, the ANC buzzing phenomenon noticed by Scarbir/Bartig and other users is preset on my left bud (others have reported it on the right bud). I'm not sure how "bad" this issue is though. It seems to occur after listening to them for a prolonged period and is independent of ANC being turned on or off. It's not as bad as what I experienced on the TaoTronics SoundLiberty 94 (where it is worst when ambient sound is turned on). Both of these use an Airoha chipset so I'm wondering if that is part of it.

Using AirReps156X app I was able to turn used this to turn on ambient sound when using only one bud, but afterwards the two earbuds would no longer connect as a stereo pair, until deleted the pairing from my device and re-paired them.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

MaccaUK said:


> In the UK, the 8T only supports AptX Classic, HD, AAC & LDAC?


I was referring to my findings with using an aptX Adaptive set of True Wireless (Noble Falcon Pro) with the OnePlus 8T. Since they're both aptX Adaptive-capable units, one would assume that all of the legacy aptX codecs are available to you with that particular set.

Turns out that's not the case. aptX HD, which should theoretically be available to me, is not. I can only assume this is because aptX HD is a power-hungey codec and is probably disabled due to using the TWS+ (or whatever it's called) connection method.

aptX in general has just become a bit of a confusing mess and Qualcomm really needs to figure out what "standard" they're going to stick to. Currently I don't think there is one.


----------



## pkcpga (Apr 25, 2021)

The P17 states Apt X Adaptive, which is the same as on my Noble Falcon Pro.  Which connects to my Sony TV at LL and to my m15 at HD and to my iPhone 12 Pro at AAC.  The P17 supposedly has the same chip in it, not sure if the case has a matching chip in it as well or just an HD or LL chip to play music.  The whole point of the Adaptive is it matches it’s source with the best possible sound for the source.  I will say with HD on my m15 I sometimes get strange artifact noises, but with HD off music is a bit less dynamic but no once in a blue moon artifact noises.  No issues with AAC or LL, only while connected to HD and not constant or every time.  Seems HD is more sensitive to outside inference then other modes.


----------



## rsbanner

jant71 said:


> I think the Grado and also the Noble fit deep due to  longer bore length and not as much the whole earphone going deeper. Looks like they stick out a bit unless you have deep ear openings...


I agree, I think that they would not be comfortable for sleeping, unless you sleep on your back!


----------



## clerkpalmer

MaccaUK said:


> Correct. My understanding is that AptX Adaptive is backwards compatible with HD. My Hiby does not support adaptive, so defaults to HD. On the document I downloaded from the B&W site in the UK it states the following codes are supported;
> 
> AptX – Adaptive
> AptX – HD
> ...


This is correct and matches the spec sheet sent to me.


----------



## clerkpalmer

dj24 said:


> If you're dead set on getting the P17's  now and are willing to go through a few steps to get the sticker price down a bit, Touch Of Modern has them for $319 with their sitewide 20% off sale.  You'll have to set up an account first though before doing anything..
> 
> https://www.touchofmodern.com/
> 
> Edit:  P15's are $200.


That’s a pretty sizeable savings. Wow. Tempting to buy and return the first set.


----------



## pkcpga

dj24 said:


> If you're dead set on getting the P17's  now and are willing to go through a few steps to get the sticker price down a bit, Touch Of Modern has them for $319 with their sitewide 20% off sale.  You'll have to set up an account first though before doing anything..
> 
> https://www.touchofmodern.com/
> 
> Edit:  P15's are $200.


Very tempting, the battery life is tough, really even too short for a domestic flight and airport wait.


----------



## cappuchino (Apr 26, 2021)

KZ just officially released the AZ09. Only available in QDC connection. Initial price is at 28 USD (Lazada PH). We can expect this to go down on some shops/stores depending on the online platform. I should receive my unit this week and will be able to give you guys an initial impression.

I also see it on Amazon now for 23.99 USD. https://www.amazon.com/dp/B09292MSTF/ref=twister_B08BR7S98H?_encoding=UTF8&th=1

https://www.lazada.com.ph/products/...o4l.searchlist.list.3.40bf5f70HuZMKn&search=1


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

cappuchino said:


> KZ just officially released the AZ09. Only available in QDC connection.
> 
> https://www.lazada.com.ph/products/...o4l.searchlist.list.3.40bf5f70HuZMKn&search=1


Luckily, the shroud around QDC connectors can be carefully trimmed away (as long as the material permits it) and it just becomes a normal 2-pin again.

Interesting proposition.


----------



## TK33 (Apr 25, 2021)

clerkpalmer said:


> That’s a pretty sizeable savings. Wow. Tempting to buy and return the first set.


Seems like you guys really like these...I had them in my cart but Final Sale and 1-2 week delivery (no cancellation) is what is holding me back.  Was surprised to see Touch of Modern is an authorized B&W online retailer.

Edit: 30 min after posting this, I ordered the white B&W PI7 from Touch of Modern...guess I am stuck with it now but I am pretty sure I will like it based on what I have seen here and previous experience with B&W.  Thank you @dj24 for posting about the deal and thank you to everyone who has posted their impressions.  I found a $25 Amex Offer on my credit card as well which covered most of the NY sales tax and ended up being around what my Senn MTW (Gen 1) cost me.  At less than US 325 shipped, I just could not resist.  These will replace those MTWs so not too concerned about battery life.  They will definitely accompany me on my next flight this summer but I think for flights it will still be the SE846/Qudelix 5K combo for me (with an IE Match for the in flight entertainment).


----------



## bronco1015

clerkpalmer said:


> :Here is more clarity from B&W:
> 
> “Apologies Timothy, I misunderstood your original question.
> As with all Bluetooth headphones, it's the source that sets the transmission codeq. So if the buds directly connect to an iPhone it will be using AAC.
> ...


That totally makes sense. No need to have the case at more than APTX-LL if the intended use is to connect to a tv, flight entertainment system etc. Especially with convenience in mind. APTX Adaptive would drain the iems even faster. I found a link from Qualcomm. I'll put at the end of this post, and I'll paste portions of the page here and there. Apologies for the weird font, it won't clear for some reason.
But based on this page; APTX Adaptive seems to be a codec that offers characteristics of APTX-LL, "
Low-latency mode
Designed to support video and gaming, aptX Adaptive delivers a fully immersive experience.
""Technical Specifications
Latency
Low system latency approx. 80ms 
""Lower audio bitrate than APTX-HD, "
“No statistically significant difference between Qualcomm® aptX™ Adaptive at 420kbit/s and Linear Audio at 24bit / 96kHz” APTX-HD tops out at 576 KBITs.​"Crowded RF environments are no longer a worry. Wherever you are, enjoy the same high-quality sound." "​https://www.aptx.com/aptx-adaptive


----------



## chinmie

cappuchino said:


> KZ just officially released the AZ09. Only available in QDC connection. Initial price is at 28 USD. I should receive my unit this week and will be able to give you guys an initial impression.
> 
> https://www.lazada.com.ph/products/...o4l.searchlist.list.3.40bf5f70HuZMKn&search=1



the million dollar question on KZ TWS would be the battery life. seeing it uses 50mA and BT 5.2, it should last at least past 5 hours, but i will wait for your review to make sure


----------



## TK33

What wireless chargers are people using? I have a bunch of Samsung stands for phones but found they dont work well with smaller TWS cases.  Since my Galaxy Buds Live has already clained my only flat wireless charging pad I will need a new one for my new PI7s (I was in the market for a new one for another setup anyway but I would prefer it work well with TWS).


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

TK33 said:


> What wireless chargers are people using? I have a bunch of Samsung stands for phones but found they dont work well with smaller TWS cases.  Since my Galaxy Buds Live has already clained my only flat wireless charging pad I will need a new one for my new PI7s (I was in the market for a new one for another setup anyway but I would prefer it work well with TWS).


This one:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07THHQMH...abc_GHGVD6D4KDDH66RQNTSN?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1

Doesn't have to be fancy. This one has worked with everything (Qi) compatible so far. Even juiced up an iPhone X without issue.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic (Apr 26, 2021)

Had a wild hair today and decided to try some of the IEM tips I got on the JBL.

Obviously none of these tip options would work if you have to practically use these TWS out and about; the case just doesn't close. But it helped me understand what it is that's been bugging me so much about the JBL since I got them. Even with any of the tips I currently had, the seal I could get in one ear or another were just too insecure and started shifting around enough to break that seal once I started moving around. Turns out that nozzle is just too short for my ears.

I started with the Symbio W Hybrids (foam-filled silicone tips...a basshead's best friend and super-awesome budget IEM tips). Those were a lot of fun, but too wide for the use, which caused for me to have fitment issues in my left ear. I had to sit very still or the whole experience was ruined.

Swapping the Symbios out for my Spiral Dots brought out the light bulb. They extend the nozzle's reach out enough to make a good seal with my ear canal, but not so wide that it's forced to rest on the outside.

That improvement in sound that came from a better seal cannot be understated. These are already really great-sounding TWS, but the better fit these tips gave completely opened up that bottom-end. Unfortunately, there's a bit of smearing in the upper midrange I'm going to have to account for somehow. Always a tradeoff, but it has me curious about the newer SpiralDot models for these guys.

Tl;dr - SpiralDots rock for the JBL Club Pro+ with my ears. Nice, punchy sound that has weight behind it and doesn't completely saturate the midrange. Obviously this won't be a Harman Target anymore. Just a bummer they're not case-compatible, but I highly suggest you find a way to make it work.

---

If you have fitment issues like mine and want to stick to TWS-compatible tips only, it seems like any horn-shaped and long-bore tip will benefit. I also tried the E-Pro tips that came with the NFP on the JBL. Wonky fit on the nozzle, but very successful seal in the ear _and it will fit in the case_. Enough so that I'd recommend them over the Final at this point. Hopefully they're not too hard to find.

Edit: Found 'em. Not too expensive, either.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

A couple hours later and I can definitively say that I'm so glad I kept these JBL around. Those EPro tips keep these things completely locked in, without feeling like a vacuum (SpinFit-style), since I made that last post. Seriously, they don't move.

It was such a treat not having to struggle to hear everything in this rendition:

Even got a little bit of the body resonance from one of the violins. That was pretty cool. Doesn't do horns like the Technics can, but it comes pretty close.

And if I can keep sound this good, with shells these light, and now not have that pain issue in the notch, these become absolute stunners again. Just took a set of $5 eartips.

I hope JBL considers this as something worth addressing in a future revision. Don't want to cheap out on the tips, guys.


----------



## samandhi

WOW! I am gone of this thread for a few days, and everyone is getting their shiny new P17's, and MT has a significant FW update drop. 

As to that (the FW update) I updated mine as soon as I read about it, and it went flawlessly. Not that I have any issues to begin with. I can't believe how much better they sound than they did when I first got them, and then again on the last FW update (where I swear they changed the tuning also). They still have an enormous amount of bass, but with the mids better balanced, and the treble just short of airy, it is totally not bothersome, and I also (like many of you have said) don't need any EQ now. 

I would love to hear what the P17 sound like, but I think I shall not have that chance. I will never pay that kind of money for something as "disposable" as TWS no matter how good they sound. If, as @miserybeforethemusic suggests (and others), they made the battery either user replaceable or at least serviceable for a nominal fee, I would definitely pay good money for a good product. I won't promote companies building in "planned obsolescence" if I can avoid doing so. Though, it IS getting harder to have anything decent that doesn't have that goal in mind. It is almost as if every contemporary tech company has a sign suggesting this very thing posted at the entrance to the board room.

I think I just may stick with the current ones I have atm, and see where things go. At this point the ones I have sound good enough (though not the audiophile grade I would love to see) that it will need to be a pretty sizeable jump for me to buy-in. I say that now, but who knows, in a month I may buy something new.... lol After all, I am as much of a junkie as all of you are on here...


----------



## Jester0fTortuga (Apr 26, 2021)

clerkpalmer said:


> Here is more clarity from B&W:
> 
> “Apologies Timothy, I misunderstood your original question.
> As with all Bluetooth headphones, it's the source that sets the transmission codeq. So if the buds directly connect to an iPhone it will be using AAC.
> ...



Interesting. But the PX7, at least currently, does not support AptX LL and is advertised and shown in the PI7 manual as being able to connect to the PI7 case when in retransmission mode. So unless the case, in this particular use scenario, starts putting out standard AptX or AptX HD, I don't see how it would be a LL connection unless the devices are using adaptive to talk to each other.

Would be great if they clarified this specific point, since frankly using the case to bring a LL option to my PX7 when using a computer is an extremely compelling benefit that makes me feel a lot better about my intention to purchase the PI7.

Edit: It might also mean the PX7 is getting a firmware update to add AptX LL support (which would be lovely)


----------



## C_Lindbergh

cappuchino said:


> KZ just officially released the AZ09. Only available in QDC connection. Initial price is at 28 USD (Lazada PH). We can expect this to go down on some shops/stores depending on the online platform. I should receive my unit this week and will be able to give you guys an initial impression.
> 
> I also see it on Amazon now for 23.99 USD. https://www.amazon.com/dp/B09292MSTF/ref=twister_B08BR7S98H?_encoding=UTF8&th=1
> 
> https://www.lazada.com.ph/products/...o4l.searchlist.list.3.40bf5f70HuZMKn&search=1



Such a shame that they don't support APTX! But for the price I'm sure it's a great purchase.


----------



## pholcus1975 (Apr 26, 2021)

I don't know if posted before, but Melomania Touch got new fw update on April 21st. Here's changelog
*21st April 2021

(v1.4.2)

Updates:*


Auto-connect is now quicker, at around 6 seconds.
Optimised power-off consistency when the earphones are placed in the charging case.
Earphones no longer automatically power off after 60 minutes of use on voice calls on a Windows 10 laptop/PC.
The current Audio Mode is now correctly displayed in the Melomania App.
During a system reset, the earphones return to the previous peer connection after 60 seconds, if a new connection is not found.
System reset optimised.
To me they also tweaked sound, it seems to me they tamed down mid bass and raised mids. I hear more clarity and less boom


----------



## MaccaUK

Jester0fTortuga said:


> Interesting. But the PX7, at least currently, does not support AptX LL and is advertised and shown in the PI7 manual as being able to connect to the PI7 case when in retransmission mode. So unless the case, in this particular use scenario, starts putting out standard AptX or AptX HD, I don't see how it would be a LL connection unless the devices are using adaptive to talk to each other.
> 
> Would be great if they clarified this specific point, since frankly using the case to bring a LL option to my PX7 when using a computer is an extremely compelling benefit that makes me feel a lot better about my intention to purchase the PI7.
> 
> Edit: It might also mean the PX7 is getting a firmware update to add AptX LL support (which would be lovely)


According to B&W website and User Manual, the PX7 does support AptX Adaptive. I was checking as thinking of purchasing myself.


----------



## TK33

samandhi said:


> WOW! I am gone of this thread for a few days, and everyone is getting their shiny new P17's, and MT has a significant FW update drop.
> 
> As to that (the FW update) I updated mine as soon as I read about it, and it went flawlessly. Not that I have any issues to begin with. I can't believe how much better they sound than they did when I first got them, and then again on the last FW update (where I swear they changed the tuning also). They still have an enormous amount of bass, but with the mids better balanced, and the treble just short of airy, it is totally not bothersome, and I also (like many of you have said) don't need any EQ now.
> 
> ...


I don't see user replaceable batteries coming back any time soon.  I used to only buy phones that had replaceable batteries but then realized companies will find other ways to make the phones obsolete, such as not supporting an older Android version and, therefore, your apps stop working.  I think TWS will end up with a similar upgrade path as cell phones and we may see more mobile phone companies (manufacturers or service providers) bundle them or even finance them on monthly plans. Not an expert on the subject but that is my opinion at least.

As for pricing, I assume (only my own assumption) the pricing was meant to be in line with their over-ear options.  Maybe people are replacing their batteries on the larger over-ear versions but I always saw those as "disposable" as well since by the time I need a new battery, a new model will be out and I will probably want the new version anyway.  I have a bunch of TWS, headphones and even two pairs of wired non-bluetooth B&W P5s (v1 and S2 were my old travel headphones because I actually don't really care for ANC) that I just don't use anymore because something new (i.e. the ES100 which, still works perfectly but, has been replaced by the Qudelix 5K) came along and the old ones ended up back in their box and now collect dust in a closet.  A few years ago, a friend who was recently helping me replace a 9 year old PC told me I should not expect anything, including my desktop PC, to last me more than 5 years anymore.  Sure enough, I just bought a new laptop (no user replaceable battery).

Yes, the PI7s have terrible battery life but they are packed with features that many of us have been asking for and hopefully the tech gets better in the next iteration.  Unfortunately, too many of us, including myself, don't want to wait that long and are ok paying the "early adopter tax" B&W knows their market and seems to have done a good job with this one given places like Crutchfield sold out pretty quickly and most online authorized retailers only have preorders right now. I even bought one with no return policy (couldn't resist at that price).

Sorry for this post getting so long but I don't think this problem of everything being disposable is unique to TWS and, in my opinion, if you buy what you can afford out of your *disposable *income, then I don't see anything wrong with that as long as it makes you happy.


----------



## Jester0fTortuga

MaccaUK said:


> According to B&W website and User Manual, the PX7 does support AptX Adaptive. I was checking as thinking of purchasing myself.


AptX Adaptive is not AptX LL.


----------



## TK33

Jester0fTortuga said:


> Interesting. But the PX7, at least currently, does not support AptX LL and is advertised and shown in the PI7 manual as being able to connect to the PI7 case when in retransmission mode. So unless the case, in this particular use scenario, starts putting out standard AptX or AptX HD, I don't see how it would be a LL connection unless the devices are using adaptive to talk to each other.
> 
> Would be great if they clarified this specific point, since frankly using the case to bring a LL option to my PX7 when using a computer is an extremely compelling benefit that makes me feel a lot better about my intention to purchase the PI7.
> 
> Edit: It might also mean the PX7 is getting a firmware update to add AptX LL support (which would be lovely)


Could they somehow be limiting the aptX adaptive bitrate at the case and just be calling it low latency? Maybe it is not "aptX LL" despite what the reps have said.  Not sure we will ever really know so I think if we buy it assuming (and think we know that) it is not aptX HD/hires quality and, if it works well for it's intended use case, then I don't have an issue with it.  I would not expect it to convert a non-bluetooth  hi-end DAC into a bluetooth transmitter that can deliver hires music to your PI7s. I am glad people here also took the effort to reach out to B&W to correct some of these early "reviews" (if they can be called that) which seemed to imply you can use the case to make everything hires.


----------



## clerkpalmer

TK33 said:


> Could they somehow be limiting the aptX adaptive bitrate at the case and just be calling it low latency? Maybe it is not "aptX LL" despite what the reps have said.  Not sure we will ever really know so I think if we buy it assuming (and think we know that) it is not aptX HD/hires quality and, if it works well for it's intended use case, then I don't have an issue with it.  I would not expect it to convert a non-bluetooth  hi-end DAC into a bluetooth transmitter that can deliver hires music to your PI7s. I am glad people here also took the effort to reach out to B&W to correct some of these early "reviews" (if they can be called that) which seemed to imply you can use the case to make everything hires.


If they support AptxHD however the hi res is an option. At least for non-Samsung android users. For iOS definitely not ideal. I think they chose LL for battery life and low latency.  The rep mentioned that adaptive has better battery life than HD so maybe they switched to Adaptive to improve battery life. It will be interesting to see how awful the battery is using an AptxHD connection. Someone up thread is using aptxHD via his DAP.


----------



## TK33

clerkpalmer said:


> If they support AptxHD however the hi res is an option. At least for non-Samsung android users. For iOS definitely not ideal. I think they chose LL for battery life and low latency.  The rep mentioned that adaptive has better battery life than HD so maybe they switched to Adaptive to improve battery life. It will be interesting to see how awful the battery is using an AptxHD connection. Someone up thread is using aptxHD via his DAP.


I meant not hires only when transmitting via the case.  Sorry if I was not clear.  I am counting on the buds themselves supporting aptX HD, which is important to me since I plan on using them via aptX HD with my Node 2i in addition to adaptive with my V60 and OnePlus 8T. 

Anxiously waiting for them to ship...looks like Touch of Modern just drop ships so they will ship directly from B&W according to the email I got from them.


----------



## Darkestred

pholcus1975 said:


> I don't know if posted before, but Melomania Touch got new fw update on April 21st. Here's changelog
> *21st April 2021
> 
> (v1.4.2)
> ...




I was a bit hesistant to update to this since my MT's have been working fine but now i have had some odd issues with this update.  I've had no music or anything play through them...had to re-pair.  I've had them randomly power off and ive had the music cutoff and nothing played.  Had to once again re-pair.

Could just be me but will need to see if i can reset them.  Havent done much looking in the app.  Guess i will start today.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

Darkestred said:


> I was a bit hesistant to update to this since my MT's have been working fine but now i have had some odd issues with this update.  I've had no music or anything play through them...had to re-pair.  I've had them randomly power off and ive had the music cutoff and nothing played.  Had to once again re-pair.
> 
> Could just be me but will need to see if i can reset them.  Havent done much looking in the app.  Guess i will start today.


Right earbud? I've had it shut off on me a couple times since the update. Double-tapping woke it back up.


----------



## pholcus1975

I suggest to all you MT owners a complete reset after  fw update. Mine didn't connect once switched on. Reset solved. Just put them in the case and hold both buds till they fast flash white, then wait and the re-pair


----------



## LordToneeus

Just got my Moondrop Aria today and paired them with the TRN BT20S.  They have immediately replaced the TRN BT20S + KZ ZAX as my favorite combo.  The Aria look much better in person, and they feel so well-built and substantial (without feeling too heavy).  They are a bit hard to drive by the BT20S - I really have to crank the volume, but for my purposes and my tastes these are plenty loud.  

I'll save my KZ ZAX's for the KZ AZ09 I just ordered.


----------



## C_Lindbergh

Still not a single review of the PI7 on youtube :/


----------



## tinyman392

C_Lindbergh said:


> Still not a single review of the PI7 on youtube :/


Most reviewers are likely just now getting their hands on it.  If I remember correctly from my review days, the review samples I got from B&W were production samples; though I've been out of the review business for some time.  I still get their press releases because of this though; the PI5 and PI7 included.  I will say, the timeframe between the time I received the press release (and made aware of the official product) and the time I was allowed to talk about the press release was very short.


----------



## C_Lindbergh

tinyman392 said:


> Most reviewers are likely just now getting their hands on it.  If I remember correctly from my review days, the review samples I got from B&W were production samples; though I've been out of the review business for some time.  I still get their press releases because of this though; the PI5 and PI7 included.  I will say, the timeframe between the time I received the press release (and made aware of the official product) and the time I was allowed to talk about the press release was very short.



Strange! I thought most major reviewers got their hands on new releases weeks before the official release, at least from most big players which I would count B&W as.


----------



## tinyman392

C_Lindbergh said:


> Strange! I thought most major reviewers got their hands on new releases weeks before the official release, at least from most big players which I would count B&W as.


It depends on the company.  Some will get very early samples, others will not.  If a reviewer receives something too early, then the review could be posted earlier, however it may be considered pre-production which can have its own issues sometimes.  If a reviewer receives stock from production runs, then the reviewer will receive something that is going to more closely resemble what the consumer will get, but then the review typically comes later.  There are pros and cons to both ways.


----------



## bronco1015

C_Lindbergh said:


> Strange! I thought most major reviewers got their hands on new releases weeks before the official release, at least from most big players which I would count B&W as.





tinyman392 said:


> It depends on the company.  Some will get very early samples, others will not.  If a reviewer receives something too early, then the review could be posted earlier, however it may be considered pre-production which can have its own issues sometimes.  If a reviewer receives stock from production runs, then the reviewer will receive something that is going to more closely resemble what the consumer will get, but then the review typically comes later.  There are pros and cons to both ways.


when i reviewed the Anker life A2NC, i needed to provide a review ASAp! as they had just been released. When i reviewed the Yamaha YhE700A, I got it like 3 weeks before it was released, so couldn't talk about it until 2 days Prior. These reviews were for a 3rd party site, so I didn't deal with the OEM's directly in these cases, but sharing some of my experience to show how varried it can be with these things.


----------



## Darkestred

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Right earbud? I've had it shut off on me a couple times since the update. Double-tapping woke it back up.



I believe so.  I was driving and needed them so got frazzled but that sounds about right.


----------



## jant71 (Apr 26, 2021)

Got these today...













The JVC HA-A8T surprised me. Had no clue they were buttons under the outer silicone skin. D'oh tapping them and nothing is happening! 

Handsome looks, build is sleek and sturdy for a cheapie. Case and buds are solid on the fit and finish. This new shape design they came up with fits me great. Stable fit that doesn't move with no fins or foams needed. Bass even has some feel to it. No fancy codes other than SBC but they have that airy open sound with nice space and depth. Quite open. A nice balanced sound but a little warmer EQ gives a very satisfying low end for this style. They are Class 1 and JVC does a good job on the connection stability. Passed the back pocket test perfectly. Simple control scheme with play on both sides and volume is the L bud and track control the R. No issues till after a second wall. What many won't like is they are micro USB. I would love to see a higher end design of this with wireless charging, more codecs and stuff cause I think they nailed the fit and sound presentation.


----------



## DJ XtAzY (Apr 26, 2021)

Darkestred said:


> I was a bit hesistant to update to this since my MT's have been working fine but now i have had some odd issues with this update.  I've had no music or anything play through them...had to re-pair.  I've had them randomly power off and ive had the music cutoff and nothing played.  Had to once again re-pair.
> 
> Could just be me but will need to see if i can reset them.  Havent done much looking in the app.  Guess i will start today.


I had this issue too, where the music stops playing and then it starts playing again later. I'm not sure if there's a reason behind this, but I noticed this happens when the battery life between the buds are like 10%+ apart. For example, with both my buds at 100%, let's say my phone connects to the right bud first. Usually I will see the battery drains slightly faster than the left. After an hour of playing music or so, let's just say my left bud is now at 87% and my right one is at 74%. My music randomly stops without warning and I can see that my phone and the buds are no longer paired. Eventually I will get a message from my left bud saying that it's connected again. Now I slowly see the battery drainage of the left one catching up to the right one.  So yea I'm not sure if that's the reason for the disconnect, and it is just an observation.


----------



## Charlyro222

The most I listen to MT (with the new firm update) the most I like them.
Best in its price range 
.


----------



## bladefd (Apr 26, 2021)

DJ XtAzY said:


> I had this issue too, where the music stops playing and then it starts playing again later. I'm not sure if there's a reason behind this, but I noticed this happens when the battery life between the buds are like 10%+ apart. For example, with both my buds at 100%, let's say my phone connects to the right bud first. Usually I will see the battery drains slightly faster than the left. After an hour of playing music or so, let's just say my left bud is now at 87% and my right one is at 74%. My music randomly stops without warning and I can see that my phone and the buds are no longer paired. Eventually I will get a message from my left bud saying that it's connected again. Now I slowly see the battery drainage of the left one catching up to the right one.  So yea I'm not sure if that's the reason for the disconnect, and it is just an observation.


It's switching master earbuds. When that happens, just wait 5 seconds. Music will automatically start playing once the buds are finished switching. Master bud uses more battery than the slave bud because master bud has to receive signal from phone and transmit to the slave bud at the same time.

You have to pair both earbuds btw. If both are not paired then it will still try to switch master earbuds, but since other isn't paired, it will be unable to switch buds. Music doesn't restart playing and you are stuck unless if you manually reconnect to the paired bud. I had that happen once so then I just reset them and re-paired both buds to my phone.

Some newer phones have TWS mode so those phones don't have to worry about master/slave earbuds because both connect to the phone at same time. Sadly my pixel 3 doesn't have TWS mode.



Charlyro222 said:


> The most I listen to MT (with the new firm update) the most I like them.
> Best in its price range
> .


What tips are those??


----------



## alchemical

Does anyone know of any retailers with the charcoal PI7 currently in stock?


----------



## Darkestred

DJ XtAzY said:


> I had this issue too, where the music stops playing and then it starts playing again later. I'm not sure if there's a reason behind this, but I noticed this happens when the battery life between the buds are like 10%+ apart. For example, with both my buds at 100%, let's say my phone connects to the right bud first. Usually I will see the battery drains slightly faster than the left. After an hour of playing music or so, let's just say my left bud is now at 87% and my right one is at 74%. My music randomly stops without warning and I can see that my phone and the buds are no longer paired. Eventually I will get a message from my left bud saying that it's connected again. Now I slowly see the battery drainage of the left one catching up to the right one.  So yea I'm not sure if that's the reason for the disconnect, and it is just an observation.



Hmm. Never was an issue prior to update.  Have had them in for hours on end.  The buds were fresh off a charge and it happened within 15 minutes of taking them out.

i did the reset as mentioned above.  Hopefully, that works.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

Darkestred said:


> Hmm. Never was an issue prior to update.  Have had them in for hours on end.  The buds were fresh off a charge and it happened within 15 minutes of taking them out.
> 
> i did the reset as mentioned above.  Hopefully, that works.


Same. I just had different issues and got this one in trade. Has only happened twice since I updated, but it still happens.


bladefd said:


> It's switching master earbuds. When that happens, just wait 5 seconds. Music will automatically start playing once the buds are finished switching. Master bud uses more battery than the slave bud because master bud has to receive signal from phone and transmit to the slave bud at the same time.
> 
> You have to pair both earbuds btw. If both are not paired then it will still try to switch master earbuds, but since other isn't paired, it will be unable to switch buds. Music doesn't restart playing and you are stuck unless if you manually reconnect to the paired bud. I had that happen once so then I just reset them and re-paired both buds to my phone.
> 
> ...


Those are the SpinFit CP360 in Large. Medium is green, couldn't tell you what small is.


----------



## Canabuc (Apr 27, 2021)

LordToneeus said:


> Just got my Moondrop Aria today and paired them with the TRN BT20S.  They have immediately replaced the TRN BT20S + KZ ZAX as my favorite combo.  The Aria look much better in person, and they feel so well-built and substantial (without feeling too heavy).  They are a bit hard to drive by the BT20S - I really have to crank the volume, but for my purposes and my tastes these are plenty loud.
> 
> I'll save my KZ ZAX's for the KZ AZ09 I just ordered.


Give a bit of burn in time and the sound of the Aria improve alot in the high end and the bass becomes more resonant too!
Love their sound! Only wired so far


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

Canabuc said:


> Give a bit of burn in time and the sound of the Aria improve alot in the high end and the bass becomes more redundant too!
> Live their sound! Only wired so far


Oh boy, I saw "redundant bass" and instantly thought of the UM 3DT.

It's time to stop reading reviews.


----------



## Jayden

Charlyro222 said:


> The most I listen to MT (with the new firm update) the most I like them.
> Best in its price range
> .



How's the signature like?>


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

Bummer...

It's parasitic drain. Guess I'll chat with WorldWideStereo in the morning about my options.

At least it gave me a chance to take the JBL on a walk down one of the busy streets by here. ANC isn't bad. It definitely turns stuff down. It will not make you believe you're in a sound booth.


----------



## Canabuc

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Oh boy, I saw "redundant bass" and instantly thought of the UM 3DT.
> 
> It's time to stop reading reviews.


Lol damn autocorrect!  Fixed.


----------



## Canabuc

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Bummer...
> 
> It's parasitic drain. Guess I'll chat with WorldWideStereo in the morning about my options.
> 
> At least it gave me a chance to take the JBL on a walk down one of the busy streets by here. ANC isn't bad. It definitely turns stuff down. It will not make you believe you're in a sound booth.


Case drain? Had that with my set.


----------



## Charlyro222 (Apr 27, 2021)

bladefd said:


> It's switching master earbuds. When that happens, just wait 5 seconds. Music will automatically start playing once the buds are finished switching. Master bud uses more battery than the slave bud because master bud has to receive signal from phone and transmit to the slave bud at the same time.
> 
> You have to pair both earbuds btw. If both are not paired then it will still try to switch master earbuds, but since other isn't paired, it will be unable to switch buds. Music doesn't restart playing and you are stuck unless if you manually reconnect to the paired bud. I had that happen once so then I just reset them and re-paired both buds to my phone.
> 
> ...


Spinfits cp360 size L and waiting the XL from mtmtaudio


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

Canabuc said:


> Case drain? Had that with my set.


Yeah, was hoping it wasn't the case, but looks like I got bit, too.

I'm going to RMA for sure. They're mainstays in the collection, even if they continue to have this problem.


----------



## dweaver

My AZ70 does it a bit too but nothing as bad as my original MTW. I do enjoy the signature alot, so will be keeping my pair.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

dweaver said:


> My AZ70 does it a bit too but nothing as bad as my original MTW. I do enjoy the signature alot, so will be keeping my pair.


Bingo. It's also why I don't criticize people who like their PI7. It'd make me a right hypocrite.


----------



## tiagopinto

erockg said:


> Defintitely call or email M&D.  This happened to me and I'm in CA!  After I called, suddenly my package moved.
> 
> Got my B&Ws in my ears right now.  They fit me better than my MW08.  Tighter.  Better seal.  They sound great (I'll compare with MW08 during the day).  Better mids than the MW08.  ANC blows away the MW08.  I put them in, the world went silent here at home.  Case is plastic.  Qi works well.  Two wishes - Volume control and for transparency to kick in when I pause music.  Guessing this can be fixed in a firmware update.  It's going to be a fun Friday!



Now that’s quite the table. How are those B&O e8 3.0 sport? Very curious about SQ...


----------



## samandhi

I am mostly pleased with the newest FW update for the CA MT. I have now had a chance to wear them out and about for the first time with the new update (in a noisy mechanical room with a few air handlers running in the background). For that purpose they have nailed the sound tuning. They are clear enough that you can hear most everything you need to hear, and the boosted bass helps with the ambient noise. In a quiet environment I still feel they are boosted too much, but I just can't bring myself to decrease it because it is just so juicy.....  If I were lusting after a bass heavy sound, this would be it. It sounds VERY pronounced, but it also sounds very tight and controlled for a dynamic driver (which actually surprises me). These seem to be very good quality drivers that they just didn't get the tuning right the first few tries (to my ears). Kudos to Cambridge for sticking with it!

The last update lowered the overall volume of the passthrough mode just a tad, but this one seems as though they got lowered even more. On top of that, the left is louder than the right. Maybe it is just mine that do the imbalance, but it is a bit annoying. Or maybe the overall volume wasn't lowered so much as they don't sound as clear, especially when hearing human voices. It is hard to pinpoint, but something has changed for the worse, though certainly not anything to call a deal breaker. 

I can't speak to any of the other features because I have been one of the lucky ones that haven't had any other issues to speak of. I DID have a situation where they just wouldn't play at all, even though they were paired, and connected, but a reset fixed this. This has happened only once in the lifetime of having the buds. Granted, I don't listen to them every day, but they are in my rotation and they get play time at least once to three times a week (now a bit more).


----------



## Caipirina

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Bummer...
> 
> It's parasitic drain. Guess I'll chat with WorldWideStereo in the morning about my options.
> 
> At least it gave me a chance to take the JBL on a walk down one of the busy streets by here. ANC isn't bad. It definitely turns stuff down. It will not make you believe you're in a sound booth.


Just had the same with my similar built panasonics ... case dead after 2 weeks of no-love


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

Caipirina said:


> Just had the same with my similar built panasonics ... case dead after 2 weeks of no-love


Makes sense. Rumor is they're effectively the same TWS underneath, so probably a common architecture.


----------



## erockg

tiagopinto said:


> Now that’s quite the table. How are those B&O e8 3.0 sport? Very curious about SQ...


I like them a lot.  But I do prefer the B&Ws and the NFPs.  SQ is great.  Wide sound stage.  Depending on your source, they do not do well with older music that hasn't been remastered.  Meaning, those albums do not seem to get as loud as newer albums.  Sub bass can get low.  You can feel it.  The EQ isn't simple, some folks do not like it in the sense that it's not very standard.  Transparency mode is great, although when you activate it, it doesn't pause the music like on the MTWs, just mutes it.  Fit is snug and the case had Qi.  They're definitely not worth full price.  B&O rarely is.  I managed to grab a like new pair just under 200 off Amazon Warehouse.  B&O is supposedly releasing an updated model called the EQ.  No release date yet, but they seem to be releasing a new product every month.


----------



## king conan

In my case the new FW for the Melomania Touch solved the annoying connectivity problems. Before the last update I had to reset them 2 or 3 times every week because one of the buds simply didn't connect.

Since the new update every time works, so I believe they finally found the problem. I was pretty upset because I have them since February and it was a pain to use them. I decided to wait for a FW because the sound and fit is truly great. I've seen 3 (!) updates during this time but finally they nailed it. It's better later than never.


----------



## Darkestred

^^^ Ever since resetting them in the case like another user said i have not (its only been a day) had the issues that plagued me and ive had them on most of the day and out of the case, as well.  Day two is going well...so far.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

king conan said:


> In my case the new FW for the Melomania Touch solved the annoying connectivity problems. Before the last update I had to reset them 2 or 3 times every week because one of the buds simply didn't connect.
> 
> Since the new update every time works, so I believe they finally found the problem. I was pretty upset because I have them since February and it was a pain to use them. I decided to wait for a FW because the sound and fit is truly great. I've seen 3 (!) updates during this time but finally they nailed it. It's better later than never.


Patience really can be a virtue. Really happy to see everybody's having a much better time with the MT.

Threw the Technics in this morning because they're charged and channeled my inner redneck with some of Kid Rock's _Devil Without a Cause. _Got carried away with cleaning and forgot to call WWS.

Also boxed up the WH3 to send them back. Kept going back and forth on them, but they no longer spark joy. Wasn't meant to be.


----------



## dwine

Does anyone here know what Qualcomm chipset is on the MW08? I can't find info online - any way to figure it out? It's BT 5.2, so maybe QCC5144, 5141, or 5151. Or maybe the QCC3040.


----------



## tiagopinto

PixelSquish said:


> What's going on with the Cambridge MT? Any of the connecting glitches fixed with the latest firmware? Any word on a hardware revision so they sit better in the case? Or is nothing going to happen until the next gen?



I haven’t heard any dropouts lately. Surely not after the last update. I also find it extremely unexpected they would change the form factor now, in the same gen. I hope they don’t, ever.  



miserybeforethemusic said:


> I haven't had any issues. Seems like I also don't have any issues where the buds auto-connect back up with the phone while they're in the case if they're not perfectly aligned, which I did have issues with pre-update.
> 
> The only glitches I know that I and someone else have seen relate to the update process itself; my OnePlus 8T just doesn't like updating these earbuds, but that issue doesn't carry over to my spare device (Pixel 3a) and updates happen without issue.
> 
> I'll say this: for now, they're back on my recommended list and would currently sit as my top pick in that "midrange" category ($100-200) for most users.



And I’m glad I’m not the only one who has felt an “alignment” in the signature. They are rocking. Definitely my recommendation under 200€. At 130€, unbeatable.


----------



## tiagopinto

samandhi said:


> WOW! I am gone of this thread for a few days, and everyone is getting their shiny new P17's, and MT has a significant FW update drop.
> 
> As to that (the FW update) I updated mine as soon as I read about it, and it went flawlessly. Not that I have any issues to begin with. I can't believe how much better they sound than they did when I first got them, and then again on the last FW update (where I swear they changed the tuning also). They still have an enormous amount of bass, but with the mids better balanced, and the treble just short of airy, it is totally not bothersome, and I also (like many of you have said) don't need any EQ now.
> 
> ...



Wise words, as usual, which exactly match my impressions.


----------



## michsu

https://www.pocket-lint.com/headpho...nd-wilkins-pi7-review-true-wireless-earphones


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

michsu said:


> https://www.pocket-lint.com/headpho...nd-wilkins-pi7-review-true-wireless-earphones


Why wouldn't they just be honest up front and put battery life in the negatives? They didn't even bother testing it. I don't think anybody's made secrets about it being pretty rough. Really frustrates me when these big guys aren't just honest. They try enough gear to have an opinion and they'd rather ensure they keep getting their free stuff than being honest..

This shouldn't have been called a "review." Sorry. Rant over.

Good to see it has Fast Pairing for Android, though. The JBLs had that and it makes pairing effortless.


----------



## clerkpalmer (Apr 27, 2021)

Got my MW08 today (13 whopping days after ordering).  I really like the fit most of all. Much improved and no wings needed. I have the Go’s at home and half the time I can’t get them to stay put. The new design is a terrific improvement. I ordered the ceramic white and holy crap they are beautiful. Build quality is simply outstanding. I would feel 100 percent comfortable rocking these in a suit.

So here’s where I am struggling. They sound somewhat muddy and have lost some of the magic of the original MW07. I can’t quite put my finger on the differences but they have lost some sparkle on the high end the new and by objective standards improved low end seems to overwhelm a bit. I am probably being picky because they sound terrific but the originals sounded special. They remind me a bit of the MTW2 when it comes to the boomy bass.  I could see some people preferring the sq of the mw08 due to the increased bass extension but I prefer a little more high end. Maybe they will tone down with some burn in.

Compared to the Gemini I think the Gemini gets the edge overall on sq. They sound special whereas the MW08 just sound great. The Gemini have better soundstage and air  and have a cleaner bass delivery (likely due to the focus on the sub bass region with little bleed). 

PI07 incoming tomorrow ... not sure there is room in my house for all 3. Loser goes to RMA.


----------



## michsu

Is the PI7 better in SQ than the MW08? I’m waiting to make a purchase but looking at different things in this forum and reviews. I’m also looking at Bose Quietcomfort , but that lacks a lot of features that these have, especially just using one pair at a time. Thanks for recommendations.


----------



## alchemical

Still trying to find anywhere that has charcoal PI7 in stock I can snap up.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

michsu said:


> Is the PI7 better in SQ than the MW08? I’m waiting to make a purchase but looking at different things in this forum and reviews. I’m also looking at Bose Quietcomfort , but that lacks a lot of features that these have, especially just using one pair at a time. Thanks for recommendations.


@erockg


----------



## michsu (Apr 27, 2021)

miserybeforethemusic said:


> @erockg


Thanks, I have been reading his review here, and he said he likes it better. Just waiting for it to be on Amazon. Do you know when that usually happens after a new release? Is it better to buy from Amazon or other places regarding returns? Isn’t the PI7 using an older Qualcomm chip? I looked for MW08, but can’t find anything about that. Is that one older than PI7?


----------



## TK33 (Apr 27, 2021)

michsu said:


> Is the PI7 better in SQ than the MW08? I’m waiting to make a purchase but looking at different things in this forum and reviews. I’m also looking at Bose Quietcomfort , but that lacks a lot of features that these have, especially just using one pair at a time. Thanks for recommendations.


Seems like there may be a difference in sound signature from what I have read here (not many "real" online reviews) so that may be hard to answer since neither provides for an in app EQ.  Those 3 will likely all sound very different.  My PI7s probably won't be here for a few weeks but I imagine the MW08 and PI7 both sound great and it may be hard for someone to tell you what objectively has better SQ so it will likely come down to personal preference.  The one thing the PI7s have that the others don't is aptX HD and adaptive (i.e. more bandwidth vs. aptX) if you listen to hires music.  If you just use Spotify premium (320 kbps mp3) or you use Apple or Samsung devices then you can probably ignore that last part.

If you let people know what kind of sound you prefer , type of music you listen to or what other headphones or IEMs you have or like, I am sure people who have any (or all) of the three you mentioned would be willing to chime in and help. 

Be careful...you may just end up with all three...


----------



## michsu (Apr 27, 2021)

TK33 said:


> Seems like there may be a difference in sound signature from what I have read here (not many "real" online reviews) so that may be hard to answer since neither provides for an in app EQ.  Those 3 will likely all sound very different.  My PI7s probably won't be here for a few weeks but I imagine the MW08 and PI7 both sound great and it may be hard for someone to tell you what objectively has better SQ so it will likely come down to personal preference.  The one thing the PI7s have that the others don't is aptX HD and adaptive (i.e. more bandwidth vs. aptX) if you listen to hires music.  If you just use Spotify premium (320 kbps mp3) or you use Apple or Samsung devices then you can probably ignore that last part.
> 
> If you let people know what kind of sound you prefer , type of music you listen to or what other headphones or IEMs you have or like, I am sure people who have any (or all) of the three you mentioned would be willing to chime in and help.
> 
> Be careful...you may just end up with all three...


Thank you for that long reply. Currently I’m just using a Periodic Audio Beryllium on a RHA Dacamp L1. Haha, nothing fancy like you guys. I’m just looking for a wireless pair of earbuds that can take calls, has good enough ANC, and has awesome sound quality (similar to or better than what I had). I’m looking at Bose quietcomfort, MW08, and PI7. I’m not sure if there are any more good ones? Sony and Jabra 85 don’t seem too good in the reviews.

For music, I do a bit of these.. rock, pop, kpop, acoustic, voices. I like things with clarity, imaging and a bigger soundstage. Sorry, I may not be using the right terms. Regarding using things like Tidal or Qobuz in hifi,  will any earbuds mentioned be better than what Apple Music offers? I think they only give 320 kbps, while the others can go higher? When I do get better earbuds, I might switch over to Tidal or Qobuz if the sound quality really has a big difference.

periodic audio specs -
https://periodicaudio.com/products/beryllium
Reviews
https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/periodic-audio-beryllium-be.22397/reviews


----------



## miserybeforethemusic (Apr 27, 2021)

michsu said:


> Thanks, I have been reading his review here, and he said he likes it better. Just waiting for it to be on Amazon. Do you know when that usually happens after a new release? Is it better to buy from Amazon or other places regarding returns? Isn’t the PI7 using an older Qualcomm chip? I looked for MW08, but can’t find anything about that. Is that one older than PI7?


Depends on when Amazon decides to start carrying it or a third party vendor starts distributing through them.

Amazon will probably just handle returns passively and without much thought. They really don't check what came back half the time according to some buddies of mine who were contracted to an Amazon fulfillment center through a pretty large contracting agency for engineers (three letters, you've probably heard of them).


michsu said:


> For music, I do a bit of these.. rock, pop, kpop, acoustic, voices. I like things with clarity, imaging and a bigger soundstage. Sorry, I may not be using the right terms.


You described the Technics AZ70W sound signature pretty well. They might have that parasitic drain issue, though.

Noble Falcon Pro would go behind it on my recommendations list, but the sound in both really favors articulation and impact without coming across as shrill. People tend to think the Technics is bass-light. I think they're bass-neutral (at least per the Ety standard). If you need more thump instead of thwack, go for the Noble or turn on the Technics ANC/HearThrough.

JBL would be my last choice. Detail retrieval is really good. Staging is really good as well, but the sense of headspace is pretty small. I also found the nozzles to be too short, but EPro horn tips fixed that right up.

Maybe some other people can enlighten you on how those compare/contrast to the M&Ds/B&Os/B&Ws.

Fair warning, though: you're going to feel like anything in the TWS realm is a step down from that Periodic/RHA combo, so please be prepared for that.


----------



## dasadab

Just received my white PI7s direct from B&W.  I don’t purport to “speak” sound, but I will say that they are a delight.  I also have the Sonys and the MTW. No comparison IMHO.  Just a lot more spacious sounding with solid detail.  I will also say that the design fits me perfectly with the stock tips.  I bought the white ones because that’s all they had, but it turns out the white is great in person.  It’s not super obnoxious white and because it’s two tone, it blends in pretty well.  
One issue:  I have been listening on my iPhone and a DAP, Lotoo PAW 6000.  The Lotoo’s volume has to be all the way up to get even average sound volume.  I don’t think that the PI7s have a separate volume control?  Hoping someone can help.  Volume on the iphone is not a problem.  
Thanks.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

dasadab said:


> Just received my white PI7s direct from B&W.  I don’t purport to “speak” sound, but I will say that they are a delight.  I also have the Sonys and the MTW. No comparison IMHO.  Just a lot more spacious sounding with solid detail.  I will also say that the design fits me perfectly with the stock tips.  I bought the white ones because that’s all they had, but it turns out the white is great in person.  It’s not super obnoxious white and because it’s two tone, it blends in pretty well.
> One issue:  I have been listening on my iPhone and a DAP, Lotoo PAW 6000.  The Lotoo’s volume has to be all the way up to get even average sound volume.  I don’t think that the PI7s have a separate volume control?  Hoping someone can help.  Volume on the iphone is not a problem.
> Thanks.


If you have access to Developer Options on the Lotoo, then search for Disable Absolute Volume. Toggle that setting and you should gain independent volume control on both the DAP and the TWS.


----------



## michsu

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Depends on when Amazon decides to start carrying it or a third party vendor starts distributing through them.
> 
> Amazon will probably just handle returns passively and without much thought. They really don't check what came back half the time according to some buddies of mine who were contracted to an Amazon fulfillment center through a pretty large contracting agency for engineers (three letters, you've probably heard of them).
> 
> ...


Thank you for your reply. It’s very helpful. I was out of the headphones time for a little while (that’s why I have the RHA Dacamp, I think made from 2017). It’s too bad none of the TWS now after a few years still can’t compare to the Periodic/RHA combo. Hopefully people like the PI7, so I’ll be leaning towards that. Which of the 3 would you recommend? M&Ds/B&Os/B&Ws?


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

michsu said:


> Thank you for your reply. It’s very helpful. I was out of the headphones time for a little while (that’s why I have the RHA Dacamp, I think made from 2017). It’s too bad none of the TWS now after a few years still can’t compare to the Periodic/RHA combo. Hopefully people like the PI7, so I’ll be leaning towards that. Which of the 3 would you recommend? M&Ds/B&Os/B&Ws?


I'm not comfortable recommending what I haven't personally tested and, sadly, the closest I've come to any of those is the MW07 GO. Great sound if you need a warm, bassy hug, but I don't think it would have been a good fit based on what you're after. If it were my money and knowing what I know about them, I'd probably order the PI7 first. I can do with a short battery life if the trade-off in sound is there.

From what I know of their house sounds, B&W tends to lean towards the flat and analytical while B&O favors warmth and lends more of a sweet quality to the treble.

Those Noble will still hold their own against any of the other flagships and I'd say they're probably my favorite all-rounder pair at the moment. Don't discount them. Supremely comfy.

The reason TWS isn't up there with wired counterparts is really due to format limitations at this point. BT needs a major overhaul and you also have to take into account the power draw from these drivers, which means they're probably not that powerful to begin with. The B&W might be an exception to that. I'd have to see for myself.

You're getting these things for convenience and are going to compromise sound quality in the process.


----------



## michsu

Thank you, I’ll check out the Noble Falcon Pro? Is that correct?


----------



## TK33

dasadab said:


> Just received my white PI7s direct from B&W.  I don’t purport to “speak” sound, but I will say that they are a delight.  I also have the Sonys and the MTW. No comparison IMHO.  Just a lot more spacious sounding with solid detail.  I will also say that the design fits me perfectly with the stock tips.  I bought the white ones because that’s all they had, but it turns out the white is great in person.  It’s not super obnoxious white and because it’s two tone, it blends in pretty well.
> One issue:  I have been listening on my iPhone and a DAP, Lotoo PAW 6000.  The Lotoo’s volume has to be all the way up to get even average sound volume.  I don’t think that the PI7s have a separate volume control?  Hoping someone can help.  Volume on the iphone is not a problem.
> Thanks.


I also ordered white...don't really find them obnoxious but I find I prefer white these days (easier to find from under my bed  or wherever my toddler hides them too as an added bonus). Mine are going to replace my MTWs which served me well but I have decided to finally retire so good to hear you liked them that much more.  Since I haven't been commuting I also find I use TWS less so it is annoying to pick up the MTWs only to find them dead or randomly connecting to my phone (wasn't an issue when I used them regularly).


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

michsu said:


> Thank you, I’ll check out the Noble Falcon Pro? Is that correct?


That's correct. I recommend going through Bloom Audio or Noble directly. Think Audio46 officially carries them as well.


----------



## TK33 (Apr 28, 2021)

michsu said:


> Thank you for that long reply. Currently I’m just using a Periodic Audio Beryllium on a RHA Dacamp L1. Haha, nothing fancy like you guys. I’m just looking for a wireless pair of earbuds that can take calls, has good enough ANC, and has awesome sound quality (similar to or better than what I had). I’m looking at Bose quietcomfort, MW08, and PI7. I’m not sure if there are any more good ones? Sony and Jabra 85 don’t seem too good in the reviews.
> 
> For music, I do a bit of these.. rock, pop, kpop, acoustic, voices. I like things with clarity, imaging and a bigger soundstage. Sorry, I may not be using the right terms. Regarding using things like Tidal or Qobuz in hifi,  will any earbuds mentioned be better than what Apple Music offers? I think they only give 320 kbps, while the others can go higher? When I do get better earbuds, I might switch over to Tidal or Qobuz if the sound quality really has a big difference.
> 
> ...


Similar to @miserybeforethemusic I also have not heard the three you mentioned so can't really make a recommendation.  I do have the MW07 Go and found it to be a bit U shaped and not that great for vocals, which sound a bit recessed to me but it has great energy in my opinion and I use it when doing chores around the house (like dishes) or when I am grilling outside. I have not had fit issues like others mentioned.  However, feedback on MW08 seems to indicate it may have a warmer sound so I don't think that my thoughts on the MW07 Go can be extended to the MW08.  I went with the PI7 (haven't gotten it yet) mostly because I have the MW07 Go and want something different since these will replace my Senn MTWs (original v1).  Plus aptX HD and adaptive are important to me.  Qobuz is great for SQ (haven't used Tidal) but you probably will find lots of gaps in the catalog vs. Apple (especially for things like kpop). Note, the reason I mentioned Apple or Samsung before is that they don't support aptX HD or adaptive as far as I know so you won't get the benefit of aptX HD or adaptive that B&W is advertising unless you have a phone or other device that supports it.

I am hoping the B&W PI7s have decent call quality (was not impressed with the one review I saw on Youtube of the MW08 call quality) although my Galaxy Buds Live will be my primary call TWS (pretty much exclusively use these for calls). Took 2 calls using the Buds Luve at CVS while waiting to get my vaccine today and they worked great (got no complaints).  I do spend a few hours a day on calls so that is important to me too.  I just got impatient waiting for reviews.


----------



## michsu (Apr 28, 2021)

TK33 said:


> Similar to @miserybeforethemusic I also have not heard the three you mentioned so can't really make a recommendation.  I do have the MW07 Go and found it to be a bit U shaped and not that great for vocals, which sound a bit recessed to me but it has great energy in my opinion and I use it when doing chores around the house (like dishes) or when I am grilling outside. I have not had fit issues like others mentioned.  However, feedback on MW08 seems to indicate it may have a warmer sound so I don't think that my thoughts on the MW07 Go can be extended to the MW08.  I went with the PI7 (haven't gotten it yet) mostly because I have the MW07 Go and want something different since these will replace my Senn MTWs (original v1).  Plus aptX HD and adaptive are important to me.  Qobuz is great for SQ (haven't used Tidal) but you probably will find lots of gaps in the catalog vs. Apple (especially for things like kpop). Note, the reason I mentioned Apple or Samsung before is that they don't support aptX HD or adaptive as far as I know so you won't get the benefit of aptX HD or adaptive that B&W is advertising unless you have a phone or other device that supports it.
> 
> I am hoping the B&W PI7s have decent call quality (was not impressed with the one review I saw on Youtube of the MW08 call quality) although my Galaxy Buds Live will be my primary call TWS (pretty much exclusively use these for calls). I do spend a few hours a day on calls so that is important to me too.  I just got impatient waiting for reviews.


Thank you for your reply too. I think we are trying to find a medium between call quality and music sound quality. I think I saw that guy you mentioned in YouTube reviewing the MW08, and he didn’t like it too much on call quality. Supposedly this PI7 is better according to that guy above (a few pages ago) who got it already. He liked it a lot, except of course for battery life.
Also, I just read that B&W seems to have better sound quality than the other two (B&O and M&W and Bose too). Those seem to be more for consumer (great design but not necessarily best audio) while B&W is for audiophiles.

That Noble Falcon Pro looks good too. Is that using a new Qualcomm chip too? That 3032 something like that. Can you make calls with it and how is the ANC? I think that is just IEM, instead of the TWS?


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

michsu said:


> Thank you for your reply too. I think we are trying to find a medium between call quality and music sound quality. I think I saw that guy you mentioned in YouTube reviewing the MW08, and he didn’t like it too much on call quality. Supposedly this PI7 is better according to that guy above (a few pages ago) who got it already. He liked it a lot, except of course for battery life.
> Also, I just read that B&W seems to have better sound quality than the other two (B&O and M&W and Bose too). Those seem to be more for consumer (great design but not necessarily best audio) while B&W is for audiophiles.
> 
> That Noble Falcon Pro looks good too. Is that using a new Qualcomm chip too? That 3032 something like that. Can you make calls with it and how is the ANC? I think that is just IEM, instead of the TWS?


I hated the MW07 GO's call mic. My wife could never hear me and said I sounded like I was in a fishbowl. To my knowledge, the MW08 uses an entirely different microphone array, so probably going to be a different experience.

Here's the answer to that last part, direct from Noble:


And here's my caveat:

I don't think aptX Adaptive is ready for primetime. Get a lot of artifacting on mine and it's usually when streaming Hi-Res stuff. Spotify didn't have a problem with it. Qobuz, UAPP, Neutron, and Tidal all did. Reverting to regular aptX took care of it. Sounds phenomenal on either codec (when it's not artifacting... it's intermittent).


----------



## VICosPhi

Great deal on Jabra 85t refurbs imo. just $114.74 with promo coupon PICKCR4MOM

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1646678006...customid=3192470ca7db11eb9e71fa97e9bdbaef0INT


----------



## TK33

miserybeforethemusic said:


> I hated the MW07 GO's call mic. My wife could never hear me and said I sounded like I was in a fishbowl.



Same...one mic and only on the right earbud so it was pretty useless. I am not sure who thought that was a good idea when others had 2 or 3 on each side.  It would have been better to not have a mic at all.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

TK33 said:


> Same...one mic and only on the right earbud so it was pretty useless. I am not sure who thought that was a good idea when others had 2 or 3 on each side.  It would have been better to not have a mic at all.


Jabra's mics still rule over all in my book, but that M&D one was awful. I assume they thought it was good enough.


----------



## bronco1015

TK33 said:


> Similar to @miserybeforethemusic I also have not heard the three you mentioned so can't really make a recommendation.  I do have the MW07 Go and found it to be a bit U shaped and not that great for vocals, which sound a bit recessed to me but it has great energy in my opinion and I use it when doing chores around the house (like dishes) or when I am grilling outside. I have not had fit issues like others mentioned.  However, feedback on MW08 seems to indicate it may have a warmer sound so I don't think that my thoughts on the MW07 Go can be extended to the MW08.  I went with the PI7 (haven't gotten it yet) mostly because I have the MW07 Go and want something different since these will replace my Senn MTWs (original v1).  Plus aptX HD and adaptive are important to me.  Qobuz is great for SQ (haven't used Tidal) but you probably will find lots of gaps in the catalog vs. Apple (especially for things like kpop). Note, the reason I mentioned Apple or Samsung before is that they don't support aptX HD or adaptive as far as I know so you won't get the benefit of aptX HD or adaptive that B&W is advertising unless you have a phone or other device that supports it.
> 
> I am hoping the B&W PI7s have decent call quality (was not impressed with the one review I saw on Youtube of the MW08 call quality) although my Galaxy Buds Live will be my primary call TWS (pretty much exclusively use these for calls). Took 2 calls using the Buds Luve at CVS while waiting to get my vaccine today and they worked great (got no complaints).  I do spend a few hours a day on calls so that is important to me too.  I just got impatient waiting for reviews.


I'm curious to see whether or not you'll have that issue with the V60 defaulting to Adaptive instead of HD on the PI7. heres hoping that's not the case.


----------



## mainguy

miserybeforethemusic said:


> I'm not comfortable recommending what I haven't personally tested and, sadly, the closest I've come to any of those is the MW07 GO. Great sound if you need a warm, bassy hug, but I don't think it would have been a good fit based on what you're after. If it were my money and knowing what I know about them, I'd probably order the PI7 first. I can do with a short battery life if the trade-off in sound is there.
> 
> From what I know of their house sounds, B&W tends to lean towards the flat and analytical while B&O favors warmth and lends more of a sweet quality to the treble.
> 
> ...


B&W definately isn’t analytic, their headphones are often warm, romantic and even fun sounding.


----------



## VICosPhi

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Jabra's mics still rule over all in my book, but that M&D one was awful. I assume they thought it was good enough.


Agreed, my 75t had really good mic but I wish I still had them to compare with Galaxy buds pro mic as buds pro supposedly have a good mic in them.


----------



## potix

michsu said:


> For music, I do a bit of these.. rock, pop, kpop, acoustic, voices. I like things with clarity, imaging and a bigger soundstage. Sorry, I may not be using the right terms. Regarding using things like Tidal or Qobuz in hifi,  will any earbuds mentioned be better than what Apple Music offers? I think they only give 320 kbps, while the others can go higher? When I do get better earbuds, I might switch over to Tidal or Qobuz if the sound quality really has a big difference.


I am on Apple Music too because I like their indie's playlists and selections, and I will second miserybeforethemusic advise on Technics because they sound awesome on the music you mentioned. Wavelet equing works also really good on them if you want to extract even more juice. You would just need 30 seconds to tune your ears to their signature leaning towards high midrange rather than bass, because those tracks are already full in that.
Loudness could work 30 years ago, not on today's crappy mastering.

I suppose B&W will sound great, and not for the aptx support but since they are probably built like a tank.
Codecs support is overrated these days to me, the real bottlenecks of tws are amplification and dac chip/implementation.


----------



## pkcpga

michsu said:


> Thank you for your reply too. I think we are trying to find a medium between call quality and music sound quality. I think I saw that guy you mentioned in YouTube reviewing the MW08, and he didn’t like it too much on call quality. Supposedly this PI7 is better according to that guy above (a few pages ago) who got it already. He liked it a lot, except of course for battery life.
> Also, I just read that B&W seems to have better sound quality than the other two (B&O and M&W and Bose too). Those seem to be more for consumer (great design but not necessarily best audio) while B&W is for audiophiles.
> 
> That Noble Falcon Pro looks good too. Is that using a new Qualcomm chip too? That 3032 something like that. Can you make calls with it and how is the ANC? I think that is just IEM, instead of the TWS?


I’d easily recommend the Noble Falcon Pro’s, best I’ve heard so far.  But I’ve yet to receive the B&W PI17, looks like they are a week or two out.  The MW08 has a very muddy warm sound, I personally thought it was not very good.  They are built and look extremely nice but sound quality is equivalent to maybe a $100-150.  The Noble Falcon Pro was built for music play back so phone quality is good but not great like the Sony’s I’ve tried we’re definitely better in that aspect.  I also have the Grado’s and they sound great as well for another option but again phone quality was not their first thought so it’s good but not excellent.  I think you’ll find that most of the better music sounding will sometimes overlook the gizmo side of things, B&W might be the first to include everything well but comes with the cost of poor battery life.  Most reviews I’ve seen, a couple on you tube and a few on different forum sites all claim 3 to 3 1/2 hour battery max.  Which is very poor by today’s standards, but since I own a few, these might be worth owning just not great for traveling.  Since they won’t even last long enough for a domestic flight and airport time.


----------



## Coop

Does anyone here have narrow ear canals and uses the Melomania Touch? 

I'm looking for an upgrade from my TWS600 (for all the TWS600 reasons) and Galaxy Buds (which do everything I want TWS for good enough, except for staying in my ear). Due to my narrow ear canals I often have fit issues. The fin on the MT looks like it might help keeping them in place, but I'm a little worried that it might limit the adjustment options I'd need to get a proper seal.


----------



## tiagopinto

clerkpalmer said:


> Got my MW08 today (13 whopping days after ordering).  I really like the fit most of all. Much improved and no wings needed. I have the Go’s at home and half the time I can’t get them to stay put. The new design is a terrific improvement. I ordered the ceramic white and holy crap they are beautiful. Build quality is simply outstanding. I would feel 100 percent comfortable rocking these in a suit.
> 
> So here’s where I am struggling. They sound somewhat muddy and have lost some of the magic of the original MW07. I can’t quite put my finger on the differences but they have lost some sparkle on the high end the new and by objective standards improved low end seems to overwhelm a bit. I am probably being picky because they sound terrific but the originals sounded special. They remind me a bit of the MTW2 when it comes to the boomy bass.  I could see some people preferring the sq of the mw08 due to the increased bass extension but I prefer a little more high end. Maybe they will tone down with some burn in.
> 
> ...



I believe in burn-in in audio equipment, most importantly whatever works with drivers, like speakers and headphones. From your description vs the previous MW08 descriptions, it seems they’ll need a few hours to be tamed. 

I’m also hoping they do improve, so I would have further excuse to desire those blue ceramics. 

Let us know...


----------



## tiagopinto

michsu said:


> Thank you for that long reply. Currently I’m just using a Periodic Audio Beryllium on a RHA Dacamp L1. Haha, nothing fancy like you guys. I’m just looking for a wireless pair of earbuds that can take calls, has good enough ANC, and has awesome sound quality (similar to or better than what I had). I’m looking at Bose quietcomfort, MW08, and PI7. I’m not sure if there are any more good ones? Sony and Jabra 85 don’t seem too good in the reviews.
> 
> For music, I do a bit of these.. rock, pop, kpop, acoustic, voices. I like things with clarity, imaging and a bigger soundstage. Sorry, I may not be using the right terms. Regarding using things like Tidal or Qobuz in hifi,  will any earbuds mentioned be better than what Apple Music offers? I think they only give 320 kbps, while the others can go higher? When I do get better earbuds, I might switch over to Tidal or Qobuz if the sound quality really has a big difference.
> 
> ...



I was leaning towards trying out the MW08 or the Mu3, to complement my MT as a possible step up in SQ. The NFP or the Pi7 would be nice too but I guess they are over my reasonable budget for a TWS and I definitely could not live with a 4h battery (Pi7). 

But I haven’t decided yet. I’ll continue hoping for further descriptions on these and we’ll see...


----------



## samandhi (Apr 28, 2021)

Coop said:


> Does anyone here have narrow ear canals and uses the Melomania Touch?
> 
> I'm looking for an upgrade from my TWS600 (for all the TWS600 reasons) and Galaxy Buds (which do everything I want TWS for good enough, except for staying in my ear). Due to my narrow ear canals I often have fit issues. The fin on the MT looks like it might help keeping them in place, but I'm a little worried that it might limit the adjustment options I'd need to get a proper seal.


I have narrow ear canals, and I also own the MT and the TWS600. Of the 4 pairs of TWS I own, the MT are the worst at fitment and comfort, though I have overcome it a bit by switching tips on them. I am using the Spinfit CP360 Small/Medium.

They do fit better, but you must be precise in dropping the buds into the case or you might not get them to contact the charging points. This is because they are just a bit longer than the stock tips (though not by very much at all). I would almost call the stock tips bordering on proprietary. They don't, go into your ears, but span across your canals to make the seal. Sometimes this can make simply smiling or moving your head lose seal.

With the Spinfits in place I have not had this issue since, but they take a little longer getting them into place to begin with. I would say that you should order them from someplace you can return them if needed, because they will either fit, or they won't. There is not a ton of large adjustments available (more like fine tuning) to be had.

Curious as to what "for all the TWS600 reasons" mean to you? I would not have paid the original asking price for the shortcomings in the tuning (to be honest), but I got them for $49 off their site, and with some EQ work, they sound fantastic to me. They are not very good at call quality, and don't have any features to speak of, but just for listening to music, they are great. Also keep in mind, I add a lot of bass, lower mids, and treble (a W if you will) and lower the 4k(ish) region. This is not to say that I believe they are the "audiophile" type sound they imply, because they only support AAC and SBC, so there is that.... I think Hifiman knows they whiffed on these, because it appears they have been quietly discontinued (I think). Anyhow, I was just curious to hear some details on why you wanted to replace them (not that I blame you for wanting to mind you).

Bottom line is, they have a great driver in them, they just need some manual work in bringing out the sound they are capable of having.

Edit: I don't know what your preferred sound signature is, but if fitment is an issue, and you find the TWS600 to fit well, then I might recommend the Nuarl N6Pro (or just the regular N6). They are similar in fitment, in that they go into your ears like an IEM would, so you can use any regular tips on them from said IEMs. I use the Final Audio type E on them (the regular, not the new TWS type), and they are super comfortable for many hours. The sound signature is pretty neutral sounding, so if you are wanting something that is more on the fun side, you might either need to EQ a bit or look elsewhere. They also use AptX...

You could get either the N6Pro or the regular N6 because they are the same buds. The difference is that the Pro comes with the Spinfit CP360s, where the regular comes with the Nuarl stock tips. In retrospect, I would have gotten the regular if I had to do it again. Not that I don't like the Spinfits, but I just don't like the Spinfits for the Nuarls (currently using on the MT as mentioned earlier).


----------



## Darkestred

Coop said:


> Does anyone here have narrow ear canals and uses the Melomania Touch?
> 
> I'm looking for an upgrade from my TWS600 (for all the TWS600 reasons) and Galaxy Buds (which do everything I want TWS for good enough, except for staying in my ear). Due to my narrow ear canals I often have fit issues. The fin on the MT looks like it might help keeping them in place, but I'm a little worried that it might limit the adjustment options I'd need to get a proper seal.



I dont know if i have narrow ear canals but i do have a lot of fitment issues with all sorts of iems.  The two that have fit me amazing to very good have been the Anole VX and EE LX. 

I have had the original Noble Falcons, Advanced Model X, Ofusho, Nuarl N6, L2P and now the MT.  I have tried RHA's offering and the Sony XM3.

Of all those the MT has fit me the best - close to a custom like universal fit.  The only issue and this could be tip rolling dependent is that the MTs will jut out a tiny bit from the bottom but are always secure.

The next best fitting would be RHA --- > L2P --- > N6/XM/Model X.


----------



## Coop

samandhi said:


> I have narrow ear canals, and I also own the MT and the TWS600. Of the 4 pairs of TWS I own, the MT are the worst at fitment and comfort, though I have overcome it a bit by switching tips on them. I am using the Spinfit CP360 Small/Medium.
> 
> They do fit better, but you must be precise in dropping the buds into the case or you might not get them to contact the charging points. This is because they are just a bit longer than the stock tips (though not by very much at all). I would almost call the stock tips bordering on proprietary. They don't, go into your ears, but span across your canals to make the seal. Sometimes this can make simply smiling or moving your head lose seal.
> 
> ...



My preferred sound sig is neutral with a tad of elevated lows and a little sparkle up top, not so much v-shaped, more like an almost flat chevron shape (if that makes any sense) but for TWS I'm not that picky. 

My issues with the TWS600 itself is mostly their complete inability to make a call with both of them in my ears. I always have to take 1 out and hold it up to my mouth for the other side to hear what I'm saying. I just use my TWS for exercise or shopping runs, but I do need to be able to take a call (I'm the emergency contact for problems with the communications systems in multiple large hospitals). The TWS600 need for EQing is just a bit of an inconvenience. Also, their fit is pretty bad because they have the IEM style tips. Like most other TWS in this style I have tried, they have the large diameter nozzles. Usually 5-5.5mm in diameter. and as my earcanal is only 5.5mm at the smallest point (measured off my CIEM), that doesn't leave much space for the eartips. And the TWS600 sticks out pretty far, which I find annoying.
That's also why I'm looking at the MT, it looks like it doesn't stick out as much as the TWS600 and as it doesn't really go in the canal, but over, like my Galaxy Buds, it might just stay put a little better with the fin.

I wish there was a TWS IEM with the Westone/Etymotic/Shure style narrow nozzles, that would solve all my fit issues in 1 go...


----------



## rhsauer

I love the sound of the MW08s.  If they sound muddy, you might try changing the tips -- as with all earphones the sound signature can vary depending on what might seem like small differences in the tips.  (I found the sound muddy with the supplied XL tips, but when I switched to the SpinFit CP360s they really opened up.)  Also, with the right tips, the ANC is more than acceptable.  They passed the NYC subway test with room to spare.  The microphone quality for calls is as good as any other earphones I've tried, and the battery life is incredible.  Also, I'm fully bought in to the Apple ecosystem, so the benefits of the B&W PI7s are mostly lost on me.  And the MW08s look and feel terrific.


----------



## clerkpalmer

rhsauer said:


> I love the sound of the MW08s.  If they sound muddy, you might try changing the tips -- as with all earphones the sound signature can vary depending on what might seem like small differences in the tips.  (I found the sound muddy with the supplied XL tips, but when I switched to the SpinFit CP360s they really opened up.)  Also, with the right tips, the ANC is more than acceptable.  They passed the NYC subway test with room to spare.  The microphone quality for calls is as good as any other earphones I've tried, and the battery life is incredible.  Also, I'm fully bought in to the Apple ecosystem, so the benefits of the B&W PI7s are mostly lost on me.  And the MW08s look and feel terrific.


I have some spinfits. Will give them a run and see if it cleans things up. Good tip.

looks like my pI7 have gotten lost by FedEx. No scans since Friday. Kicking myself even more for not just ordering from crutchfield. And now they are sold out everywhere. So annoying. Why on earth do they distribute from California!


----------



## Jester0fTortuga

From B&W support: "The PX7 when paired with the PI7 case will use APTX Adaptive for the Bluetooth codex."

So, the PI7 case also appears to be the first AptX Adaptive transmitter on the market. This is a huge plus for me, a PX7 owner.


----------



## clerkpalmer

Jester0fTortuga said:


> From B&W support: "The PX7 when paired with the PI7 case will use APTX Adaptive for the Bluetooth codex."
> 
> So, the PI7 case also appears to be the first AptX Adaptive transmitter on the market. This is a huge plus for me, a PX7 owner.


This doesn’t make any sense. They have already said the adapter transmits in aptx LL. I don’t think this is correct information. Typical misinformation  I realize you are saying the PX7 but I highly doubt they are using different codecs. I suspect this is CS that doesn’t know what they are talking about.


----------



## Jester0fTortuga

clerkpalmer said:


> This doesn’t make any sense. They have already said the adapter transmits in aptx LL. I don’t think this is correct information. Typical misinformation  I realize you are saying the PX7 but I highly doubt they are using different codecs. I suspect this is CS that doesn’t know what they are talking about.


As I mentioned above, the PX7 does not support AptX LL, so the PI7 case cannot be making a connection with the PX7 over AptX LL. The only way the PX7 would receive a low latency anything from the PI7 case is if they were communicating with AptX Adaptive.


----------



## clerkpalmer

Jester0fTortuga said:


> As I mentioned above, the PX7 does not support AptX LL, so the PI7 case cannot be making a connection with the PX7 over AptX LL. The only way the PX7 would receive a low latency anything from the PI7 case is if they were communicating with AptX Adaptive.





Jester0fTortuga said:


> So they made a decision to use LL on the pI7 but not the px7?  And it somehow switches to Adaptive on the PX7? What if your device doesn’t support Adaptive? Then what?  I suppose it’s possible but seems unlikely.
> I don’t trust anything CS tells us on these details. Way too much misinformation.


----------



## Jester0fTortuga (Apr 28, 2021)

If I am not mistaken, the PI7 case will only connect with B&W headphones, so actually the AptX Adaptive thing makes total sense. Especially if its defaulting to the lowest latency setting within the adaptive framework.

Edit: and yes, they have AptX LL on the PI7 but not the PX7. I take it you don't own the PX7?


----------



## Jester0fTortuga

Jester0fTortuga said:


> If I am not mistaken, the PI7 case will only connect with B&W headphones, so actually the AptX Adaptive thing makes total sense. Especially if its defaulting to the lowest latency setting within the adaptive framework.
> 
> Edit: and yes, they have AptX LL on the PI7 but not the PX7. I take it you don't own the PX7?



From the PI7 manual: https://www.bowerswilkins.com/sites/default/files/2021-04/PI7-Manual_7.pdf

"8.3 Pairing Secondary/Subsequent Headphone (ONLY Bowers & Wilkins) to the case for media streaming"


----------



## clerkpalmer

Jester0fTortuga said:


> If I am not mistaken, the PI7 case will only connect with B&W headphones, so actually the AptX Adaptive thing makes total sense. Especially if its defaulting to the lowest latency setting within the adaptive framework.
> 
> Edit: and yes, they have AptX LL on the PI7 but not the PX7. I take it you don't own the PX7?


Correct. That’s pretty cool if true. So if you do not have a device that supports Adaptive do they simply not work?


----------



## samandhi

Coop said:


> My preferred sound sig is neutral with a tad of elevated lows and a little sparkle up top, not so much v-shaped, more like an almost flat chevron shape (if that makes any sense) but for TWS I'm not that picky.
> 
> My issues with the TWS600 itself is mostly their complete inability to make a call with both of them in my ears. I always have to take 1 out and hold it up to my mouth for the other side to hear what I'm saying. I just use my TWS for exercise or shopping runs, but I do need to be able to take a call (I'm the emergency contact for problems with the communications systems in multiple large hospitals). The TWS600 need for EQing is just a bit of an inconvenience. Also, their fit is pretty bad because they have the IEM style tips. Like most other TWS in this style I have tried, they have the large diameter nozzles. Usually 5-5.5mm in diameter. and as my earcanal is only 5.5mm at the smallest point (measured off my CIEM), that doesn't leave much space for the eartips. And the TWS600 sticks out pretty far, which I find annoying.
> That's also why I'm looking at the MT, it looks like it doesn't stick out as much as the TWS600 and as it doesn't really go in the canal, but over, like my Galaxy Buds, it might just stay put a little better with the fin.
> ...


Ah. In that case the MT should fit you nicely, as that is precisely the way they are meant to fit. I guess my canals must not be as narrow as yours because the TWS600 don't stick out much more than the MTs do. As a matter of fact I quit worrying about that a while ago, since I still have the original "Frankenstein bolts" that are the Bose Soundsport Free... 

You picked a good time for looking at the MT, what with the newest FW update. They fixed a lot of the bugs present, and they re-tuned them a bit, and sound fairly close to what you are describing (though JUST short of being airy up top). More on the fun side of things. The bass is boosted quite a bit, but not bleeding into other frequencies. Nor is it flabby, but pretty punchy. From what I have heard from others I have spoken to on the phone with, they are pretty good with clarity on phone calls too. 

The fins do in fact help keep them in place a bit, but keep in mind, if you are sensitive to the type of harder rubber they use, you will need to allow time for your ears to get used to them. It will be a bit of discomfort after a while, at first, but after a while you won't notice it much. There was a time when I just took the fins off altogether, and they actually held up pretty well, though I will admit, I didn't do much working out with them in.


----------



## samandhi (Apr 28, 2021)

clerkpalmer said:


> Correct. That’s pretty cool if true. So if you do not have a device that supports Adaptive do they simply not work?


I don't own them, but I would say that at the VERY least, they would just default to SBC.


----------



## michsu (Apr 28, 2021)

Thanks for all the replies. They are very informative.

I have been looking at various frequency responses for these earbuds:
1) Noble Falcon Pro - 20 to 20 - https://www.nobleaudio.com/wireless/p/falcon-pro (at the bottom)
2) Bowers PI7 - 10 to 20 - https://www.bowerswilkins.com/headphones/pi7 (download their manual)
3) MW08 (11mm nozzle) - ??? (They are Beryllium like my periodic audio, so it should have a wider range? I have been searching but cannot find it)
4) Bose QuietComforts - ???
5) Airpods Pro - ???

Any other good ones? The Bose/Airpods Pro/MW08 don't have any specs for frequency response on their website. That usually means it isn't very good?

Can someone help me with these? Thanks.

My Periodic Audio Beryllium (6mm nozzle) - 12 to 45

So it seems the IEMs can still do a much wider frequency range than the TWS (like what that guy told me). I'm looking for something with more than the 20-20 I guess, and has near awesome ANC (for the kids haha).


----------



## SilverEars

What's the cheapest TWS with quality mic?  I'm looking for cheap here.  Trying to find a cheap one for a buddy that cares only about the mic quality.


----------



## tiagopinto

rhsauer said:


> I love the sound of the MW08s.  If they sound muddy, you might try changing the tips -- as with all earphones the sound signature can vary depending on what might seem like small differences in the tips.  (I found the sound muddy with the supplied XL tips, but when I switched to the SpinFit CP360s they really opened up.)  Also, with the right tips, the ANC is more than acceptable.  They passed the NYC subway test with room to spare.  The microphone quality for calls is as good as any other earphones I've tried, and the battery life is incredible.  Also, I'm fully bought in to the Apple ecosystem, so the benefits of the B&W PI7s are mostly lost on me.  And the MW08s look and feel terrific.



My lust for the blue ceramic is growing. Don’t know if you own or have owned the MT. If so, how do they compare, solely in SQ?


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

Darkestred said:


> I dont know if i have narrow ear canals but i do have a lot of fitment issues with all sorts of iems.  The two that have fit me amazing to very good have been the Anole VX and EE LX.
> 
> I have had the original Noble Falcons, Advanced Model X, Ofusho, Nuarl N6, L2P and now the MT.  I have tried RHA's offering and the Sony XM3.
> 
> ...


The jutting out, as I've learned, is intentional. If you try to push them in flush, it blocks the microphone.


----------



## Jester0fTortuga (Apr 28, 2021)

clerkpalmer said:


> Correct. That’s pretty cool if true. So if you do not have a device that supports Adaptive do they simply not work?


Very cool even! I’ve been desperate for something that allows me to have a low latency option when using my computer and PX7. So if this is what’s happening, it’s a huge pro for the PI7 if you’re a PX7 owner on the fence.

Of course I’d vastly prefer if B&W just added AptX LL to the PX7 in a FW update, but after a year of waiting for some kind of option that solves this particular use case, I’ll take this.

Also, sadly, looks like the PI7 case only connects to B&W headphones, according to the manual.


----------



## mainguy

The Independent just published their review for the PI7, praising the sound. Seems like every reviewer says they sound fabulous


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

SilverEars said:


> What's the cheapest TWS with quality mic?  I'm looking for cheap here.  Trying to find a cheap one for a buddy that cares only about the mic quality.


Jabra 65t, refurbished via their official ebay store. Someone posted a coupon code earlier in the thread that should still be active.


----------



## clerkpalmer

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Jabra 65t, refurbished via their official ebay store. Someone posted a coupon code earlier in the thread that should still be active.


Agree. Jabra all the way.


----------



## Darkestred

miserybeforethemusic said:


> The jutting out, as I've learned, is intentional. If you try to push them in flush, it blocks the microphone.


Hmm.  That makes sense.


----------



## tinyman392

michsu said:


> Thanks for all the replies. They are very informative.
> 
> I have been looking at various frequency responses for these earbuds:
> 1) Noble Falcon Pro - 20 to 20 - https://www.nobleaudio.com/wireless/p/falcon-pro (at the bottom)
> ...


Frequency response doesn't really mean much once you're outside 20Hz - 20kHz.  A lot of headphones that go up to 20kHz still drop off between 10-20kHz too...


----------



## samandhi

mainguy said:


> The Independent just published their review for the PI7, praising the sound. Seems like every reviewer says they sound fabulous


I have come to despise so called "official" reviews (for the most part). Most times, when I end up getting said item, it almost seems to me as if they didn't even listen to them or use them. It's like they just regurgitate the official description but in their own words. 

I tend to rely on the common folk (like me) on this board, and others for all my review needs. Though there are a few bigger reviewers I do pay attention to because I have found over time that their preferred sound and mine tend to align fairly closely.


----------



## erockg (Apr 28, 2021)

miserybeforethemusic said:


> @erockg


In my unprofessional opinion, the PI7s DO sound better than the MW08. 

Just got the KEFs today.  Going to pit them against the MW08 as well later today.  I might like them better. 

New world order:


B&W PI7
NFP
KEF
MW08
B&O Beoplay Sport


----------



## clerkpalmer

erockg said:


> In my non-professional opinion, the PI7s DO sound better than the MW08.
> 
> Just got the KEFs today.  Going to pit them against the MW08 as well later today.  I might like them better.
> 
> ...


More time with the MW08 confirms my impressions and those of others that they are overly warm and somewhat muddy. The bass is flabby and lacks control. Spinfits helped a little but not enough. I am not giving up yet but am leaning toward a return even though I am smitten with the form factor and build.


----------



## TK33

clerkpalmer said:


> More time with the MW08 confirms my impressions and those of others that they are overly warm and somewhat muddy. The bass is flabby and lacks control. Spinfits helped a little but not enough. I am not giving up yet but am leaning toward a return even though I am smitten with the form factor and build.


Appreciate the impressions and the photos.  I thought the MW07 Go already had a lot of bass.  Had high hopes for the new larger driver but consistent reports of more bass told me these would not be for me (again, appreciate the feedback and impressions of everyone here).

Is it fair to say the three you pictured above (KEF, MW08 and PI7) are about the same size (physical size of earbuds)? Looks like KEFs may be the largest earbuds followed by the B&Ws and the MW08 but they seem pretty similar?  Still debating the KEFs since I like their speakers alot but wondering if there is a noticeable size difference.


----------



## erockg

clerkpalmer said:


> More time with the MW08 confirms my impressions and those of others that they are overly warm and somewhat muddy. The bass is flabby and lacks control. Spinfits helped a little but not enough. I am not giving up yet but am leaning toward a return even though I am smitten with the form factor and build.


I tend to agree with you after having experienced the B&Ws, NFP and KEF at this exact moment.  I think @Luke Skywalker is in love with his KEFs and I can totally see why.


----------



## clerkpalmer

TK33 said:


> Appreciate the impressions and the photos.  I thought the MW07 Go already had a lot of bass.  Had high hopes for the new larger driver but consistent reports of more bass told me these would not be for me (again, appreciate the feedback and impressions of everyone here).
> 
> Is it fair to say the three you pictured above (KEF, MW08 and PI7) are about the same size (physical size of earbuds)? Looks like KEFs may be the largest earbuds followed by the B&Ws and the MW08 but they seem pretty similar?  Still debating the KEFs since I like their speakers alot but wondering if there is a noticeable size difference.


Haven’t heard the Kefs but if SQ is a priority they are probably a very solid choice. Most people love them and very few complaints. The Gemini will be back soon so they may be worth waiting for.


----------



## erockg

TK33 said:


> Appreciate the impressions and the photos.  I thought the MW07 Go already had a lot of bass.  Had high hopes for the new larger driver but consistent reports of more bass told me these would not be for me (again, appreciate the feedback and impressions of everyone here).
> 
> Is it fair to say the three you pictured above (KEF, MW08 and PI7) are about the same size (physical size of earbuds)? Looks like KEFs may be the largest earbuds followed by the B&Ws and the MW08 but they seem pretty similar?  Still debating the KEFs since I like their speakers alot but wondering if there is a noticeable size difference.


I'd say for me, the KEF fit the best.  They're snug and I can't feel the tips in my ears even though they have a seal.  The B&W second - they fit great and the ANC is spot on, better than the KEF and the MW08.  The MW08 sit in my ears and I usually have to adjust them to get a good seal all the time.  They also have sound bleed says my wife.  She complains that I play my music loud when I wear the MW08.  She'll never understand.

The KEF are smaller than the B&W.  Here are a few pics.


----------



## Sebulr

cappuchino said:


> KZ just officially released the AZ09. Only available in QDC connection. Initial price is at 28 USD (Lazada PH). We can expect this to go down on some shops/stores depending on the online platform. I should receive my unit this week and will be able to give you guys an initial impression.
> 
> I also see it on Amazon now for 23.99 USD. https://www.amazon.com/dp/B09292MSTF/ref=twister_B08BR7S98H?_encoding=UTF8&th=1
> 
> https://www.lazada.com.ph/products/...o4l.searchlist.list.3.40bf5f70HuZMKn&search=1


Thanks for this post, I wasn't aware of kz releasing this. Its also available via a reseller on amazon UK for £22 pound. Ordered. Worth a risk at price, mine are on the way from China right now. I'll probably try my zsx on them. Might buy a spare set of headphones to go with them as the kz type c connectors on earphones are acrylic and tend to crack with repeated changes of cables.


----------



## mainguy

erockg said:


> In my unprofessional opinion, the PI7s DO sound better than the MW08.
> 
> Just got the KEFs today.  Going to pit them against the MW08 as well later today.  I might like them better.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the list, looks like you agree with the other reviews the PI7 are top dog for tws sound. Gods i want to order them but i just bought airpods max and they cost a small downpayment on a house...



clerkpalmer said:


> More time with the MW08 confirms my impressions and those of others that they are overly warm and somewhat muddy. The bass is flabby and lacks control. Spinfits helped a little but not enough. I am not giving up yet but am leaning toward a return even though I am smitten with the form factor and build.



I’ve owned a few M&D products (MH40, MW65 & MW07 +). They are literally gorgeous, like pieces of art. But aside from the MW07+ they really did fall short in sound, and even the MW07+ had some issues with mids. Vocals sounded off. It’s really hard to let go of their products because of the design though, I was hoping the MW08 would have fixed things shame they still have flaws.


----------



## TK33

erockg said:


> I'd say for me, the KEF fit the best.  They're snug and I can't feel the tips in my ears even though they have a seal.  The B&W second - they fit great and the ANC is spot on, better than the KEF and the MW08.  The MW08 sit in my ears and I usually have to adjust them to get a good seal all the time.  They also have sound bleed says my wife.  She complains that I play my music loud when I wear the MW08.  She'll never understand.
> 
> The KEF are smaller than the B&W.  Here are a few pics.


Thanks. This was super helpful.  You keeping all three?


----------



## erockg

TK33 said:


> Thanks. This was super helpful.  You keeping all three?


You're welcome.  Seriously considering selling the MW08 at this very moment.


----------



## dj24

SilverEars said:


> What's the cheapest TWS with quality mic?  I'm looking for cheap here.  Trying to find a cheap one for a buddy that cares only about the mic quality.


'Never hurts to have choices   

https://www.scarbir.com/guide/best-cheap-wireless-earbuds-for-phone-calls

https://www.scarbir.com/guide/best-earbuds-for-video-calls


----------



## rhsauer (Apr 29, 2021)

tiagopinto said:


> My lust for the blue ceramic is growing. Don’t know if you own or have owned the MT. If so, how do they compare, solely in SQ?


I don't have the MT, so I can't offer any comparisons to the MW08. 

For those who find the MW08s muddy or overly warm, you might try _slightly_ smaller tips.  With tips that fit properly, when the MW08s are twisted very slightly upward during insertion, the tips slip gently into the ear canal providing an extremely comfortable and effective seal.  If they feel overly warm, or if you have sound leakage, or if the ANC is underwhelming, it may be because the tips are too large and unable to fit properly in the ear canal.  That was my experience when using the supplied XL tips -- those tips sat just outside (rather than slightly inside) my ear canal.  It felt like I was getting a seal, but it was in fact more of an external blockage -- and sonically off.  The supplied XL tips also got uncomfortable pretty quickly, but with slightly smaller tips the MW08s are and remain very comfortable.

Fit is such a personal thing, and everyone's ears are different.  (In my case, even my left and right ears are slightly, but noticeably, different.)  Some very well regarded earphones never really fit me well -- and, accordingly, never sounded quite right no matter what tips I tried.  (I'm looking at you, Sony WF-1000XM3.)  With the right tips, the MW08 don't sound muddy to me at all -- the words I'd use to describe their sound are "smooth, clear and effortless."


----------



## Mr.Toad (Apr 29, 2021)

B&W PI7s arrived yesterday- the white ones. A couple of initial impressions:

My first reaction to them was that they are bass heavy and lack highs. I tried some different tips (settled on xelastic for now) and noticed much improved treble. The stock tips have a small black insert, foam or felt I assume that, I think, is filtering out some of the highs. With the xelastic tips the highs are quite detailed and sweet.
Sound stage is above average, instrument separation is good, overall tonal balance is warm and pleasing.
The included app is temperamental. If music is playing when it attempts to connect, there is sputtering until it succeeds. The lack of equalisation is annoying. I see it was updated today - still sputters on connection, though.
I have been getting dropouts. Phone is a Pixel 5. Putting them back in the case and reconnecting seems to fix this - for a while.
No matter where I place the case on wireless chargers, it doesn't charge. Not sure if this is a fault in the case or whether the chargers are all incompatible (that seems unlikely).
The ANC is about the same level as my other wireless IEMs - ie, not as good as over-ear ANC phones but better than nothing.
The sound signature changes when ANC is turned on.
Cosmetically, they are pretty, fairly small and reasonably comfortable.
Not sure whether I'll keep them. The sound (with non-stock tips) is interesting - typically B&W (I had the PX for a while) - and quite likable.


----------



## xanlamin

Has anyone here tried to string the Earfun Free Pro earbuds together to prevent any accidental loss? If so, is there any elegant accessory that can do the job?


----------



## michsu (Apr 29, 2021)

https://www.rtings.com/headphones/suggestions

They purchased the PI7, and is awaiting testing.. I’m looking forward to how the test results will be for those. They seem to test a lot of different things others don’t, if you look at their other reviews.

here are the Bose QuietComfort reviews - 
https://www.rtings.com/headphones/reviews/bose/quietcomfort-earbuds-truly-wireless


----------



## tinyman392

michsu said:


> https://www.rtings.com/headphones/suggestions
> 
> They purchased the PI7, and is awaiting testing.. I’m looking forward to how the test results will be for those. They seem to test a lot of different things others don’t, if you look at their other reviews.
> 
> ...


I looked at the UE Fits measurements they have, they couldn't get the left side to seal...  I rarely read their actual reviews (for other reasons), but do use their raw, uncompensated plots when debating about ordering stuff.


----------



## michsu (Apr 29, 2021)

I do admit, I just look at the scores too. If it’s good enough, I’ll consider buying it. I’m looking more at the neutral sound score and the call quality score (call recording).


----------



## tinyman392

michsu said:


> I do admit, I just look at the scores too. If it’s good enough, I’ll consider buying it. I’m looking more at the neutral sound score and the call quality score.


I don't even look at their scores.  The scores just say how close to the Harman curve it is; I don't agree with the 10 dB bump of the Harman curve they require.  I literally just the raw measurement.


----------



## TK33

michsu said:


> I do admit, I just look at the scores too. If it’s good enough, I’ll consider buying it. I’m looking more at the neutral sound score and the call quality score (call recording).


I use them more for TV reviews but will also look at them to see the tuning/frequency response.

I wouldnt put too much faith in their scores, especially the call quality scores.  The Galaxy Buds Live have a lower rating vs the Senn MTW (original) and the Galaxy Buds (original).  I have all three and the Galaxy Buds Live are much better for calls than the other two. I find the Youtube reviews more helpful for call quality tests pr you can download some apps and test them yourself if you have them already.


----------



## tinyman392

TK33 said:


> I use them more for TV reviews but will also look at them to see the tuning/frequency response.
> 
> I wouldnt put too much faith in their scores, especially the call quality scores.  The Galaxy Buds Live have a lower rating vs the Senn MTW (original) and the Galaxy Buds (original).  I have all three and the Galaxy Buds Live are much better for calls than the other two. I find the Youtube reviews more helpful for call quality tests pr you can download some apps and test them yourself if you have them already.


They tend to want/try to read what they want to read in the graphs rather than give a more true-to-life subjective impression of sound too.  It's really quite jarring how much they could get wrong doing that.  I remember in the APM review a commenter commented saying that they did everything in SBC.  Their response was that they tested AAC but saw no differences.  And in terms of measurement, that's likely true, but in terms of subjective differences that'll be _huge_.  That and another thing in the review made me question whether or not they even listen to the headphones themselves or just try to read graphs.


----------



## michsu

Which websites do you recommend for the reviews? I have headfonics, pocket lint, this one and a few others. Are the reviews on YouTube better? Thank you. Of course, these forums seem to be the best because of everyone’s opinions.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

michsu said:


> Which websites do you recommend for the reviews? I have headfonics, pocket lint, this one and a few others. Are the reviews on YouTube better? Thank you. Of course, these forums seem to be the best because of everyone’s opinions.


Headfonia (different site than Headfonics)
The Headphone List
Major Hi-Fi (take with a grain of salt)
Antdroid
Twister6

PocketLint used to be great. That hack job of an initial impressions for the PI7 that they called a "review" gives a better illustration of where I think they are now. That was a _senior editor's_ article and the grammar freak in me was screaming at my phone over it. Battery life was never tested and we know that's the biggest con to the unit. They're just not thorough.

Seems to be a chronic issue; these guys bring in more editors, don't vet them thoroughly, the senior staff don't edit them thoroughly. The volume of gear coming in to review only goes up and, eventually, the whole house of cards comes falling down.

Going to catch a lot of flak for this, but just look at Inner fidelity for an example.


----------



## TK33 (Apr 29, 2021)

michsu said:


> Which websites do you recommend for the reviews? I have headfonics, pocket lint, this one and a few others. Are the reviews on YouTube better? Thank you. Of course, these forums seem to be the best because of everyone’s opinions.


For true wireless I think this thread is great and has a lot of helpful people with first hand experience.  A lot of the big review sites and Youtube reviewers seem to just regurgitate specs and marketing materia (I personally don't really care about how nice the box is) l and I don't find them particularly helpful except where I am trying to find specs or features/functions (such as can auto pause be turned off).  As I mentioned before, I find Youtube has some decent call quality tests but they are not always available as we can see for newer stuff like the PI7.

Edit: just to clarify, I am not saying all reviewers are bad but the larger sites seem to have gone downhill.


----------



## michsu (Apr 29, 2021)

Ok, thank you for the replies. I’ll add those and remove the ones I have. Overall, I think people here give a much better review than what those other sites give. I just took a look at Headfonica (that’s a very detailed website, but probably some charts would be good), I just took a look at their Noble Falcon pro.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic (Apr 29, 2021)

michsu said:


> Ok, thank you for the replies. I’ll add those and remove the ones I have. Overall, I think people here give a much better review than what those other sites give. I just took a look at Headfonica (that’s a very detailed website, but probably some charts would be good), I just took a look at their Noble Falcon pro.


Glad you like them!

Keep in mind I read those primarily for entertainment and to see what might be out there that seems interesting. From there, I try to find a thread for the product here, on SBAF, or at ASR. The comments sections of those websites are usually pretty rough and about as misleading as Drop's comments section half the time.

E.A.R.S. rigs aren't very IEM-friendly to begin with. I wouldn't expect that to be standard equipment for these reviewers


----------



## clerkpalmer

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Going to catch a lot of flak for this, but just look at Inner fidelity for an example.


A long time ago in a galaxy far away, Crin participated in the thread. He threw a mini tantrum over some criticism and quit. For the record, I find his reviews very helpful and like him overall. But he really overreacted to a few comments and vowed never to return.


----------



## jasonb (Apr 29, 2021)

WalMart has the OG Galaxy Buds on sale for $49 right now. It seems like it's limited to in store only though. I had 2 Walmarts somewhat local to me that showed them in stock so I drove to one of them today and got a pair for $52 out the door including tax. On the "clear" EQ settings they sound pretty damn good to me. I had a pair a while ago, but sold them, then later tried the Buds +, and the Lives and wasn't really a huge fan of either. Happy to have the original Buds again. These don't have the same features as my Airpods Pro, but I like the overall sound more.

My AKG K371 with a Qudelix 5K with a small amount of EQ on LDAC still sounds way better though.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

clerkpalmer said:


> A long time ago in a galaxy far away, Crin participated in the thread. He threw a mini tantrum over some criticism and quit. For the record, I find his reviews very helpful and like him overall. But he really overreacted to a few comments and vowed never to return.


That honestly wouldn't surprise me. I know it was a really heated issue at the time. Not many people want to hear about their monoliths fall, but it happens


----------



## BigZ12

Some specs and several comments here lateley, suggests I should just keep my MTW2s and stay happy with that?

MW08 - muddy bass, too warm sound
PI7 - no volume control on buds/bad battery and the sound is not in line with the price?
Mu3 - bad ANC, no AptX (and "impossible" to get the hold of?)

Pureplay Z7, MT, Grado and Falcon Pro does not include ANC which I want... (MT with connection issues?, and the Nobles are very expensive as well).

Specs, looks, build quality and price had me going for the MW08, but you guys have scared me off... 

What do think?


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

New UE article, this time on how to effectively use their EQ:

https://custom.ultimateears.com/blogs/custom-made/how-to-build-your-own-ue-fits-tone-profiles


----------



## TK33

BigZ12 said:


> Some specs and several comments here lateley, suggests I should just keep my MTW2s and stay happy with that?
> 
> MW08 - muddy bass, too warm sound
> PI7 - no volume control on buds/bad battery and the sound is not in line with the price?
> ...


I think KEF may have the mu3 back in stock now.


----------



## Mr.Toad

BigZ12 said:


> Some specs and several comments here lateley, suggests I should just keep my MTW2s and stay happy with that?
> 
> MW08 - muddy bass, too warm sound
> PI7 - no volume control on buds/bad battery and the sound is not in line with the price?
> ...


My 2nd day into the PI7 and, with the right tips, I'd say the sound is worth the price. OTOH, I have been experiencing enough glitches to make the whole experience terminally annoying. And B&W's support mechanics is abysmal.


----------



## Canabuc

Still happy with my FBP once EQ'd
Walked the dog and all the lawnmowers from the Gardner's were blocked out completely.
Sound is very nice with good bass clean mids .
For more critical Listening will just enjoy my IEMS. Love my moondrop Aria! So much that might a a bt adapter to make them wireless too.


----------



## BigZ12

TK33 said:


> I think KEF may have the mu3 back in stock now.


Not in EU shop (and no shop in Norway of course... )


----------



## smith

My Status Between Pro have finally arrived. After a quick listen I must say I am impressed with the sound quality👍🏽...what really stands out so far is the soundstage, no low volume issue and the feeling of just want to dive into listening to music ...bass is nicely done as are the mids and treble. ...well worth the asking price...


----------



## BigZ12

Canabuc said:


> Still happy with my FBP once EQ'd
> Walked the dog and all the lawnmowers from the Gardner's were blocked out completely.
> Sound is very nice with good bass clean mids .
> For more critical Listening will just enjoy my IEMS. Love my moondrop Aria! So much that might a a bt adapter to make them wireless too.


Moondrop Aria and UTWS3 are tempting!


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

smith said:


> My Status Between Pro have finally arrived. After a quick listen I must say I am impressed with the sound quality👍🏽...what really stands out so far is the soundstage, no low volume issue and the feeling of just want to dive into listening to music ...bass is nicely done as are the mids and treble. ...well worth the asking price...


Rock on!

Still waiting for a shipping notice


----------



## jant71

BigZ12 said:


> Some specs and several comments here lateley, suggests I should just keep my MTW2s and stay happy with that?
> 
> MW08 - muddy bass, too warm sound
> PI7 - no volume control on buds/bad battery and the sound is not in line with the price?
> ...


Sounds like you may just want to wait for the Sony. Some speculation it will come sooner than fall but only speculation.


BigZ12 said:


> Moondrop Aria and UTWS3 are tempting!


But no ANC that way . I think Reecho SG03 and UTWS3 might be better for passive noise cancel and they may just sound a little better for the same $69. Though they have not been A/B'd directly yet AFAIK.


----------



## BigZ12

jant71 said:


> Sounds like you may just want to wait for the Sony. Some speculation it will come sooner than fall but only speculation.
> 
> But no ANC that way . I think Reecho SG03 and UTWS3 might be better for passive noise cancel and they may just sound a little better for the same $69. Though they have not been A/B'd directly yet AFAIK.


 Yes, I know. The Aria and UTWS3 was just something extra. Curious about both the Fiio and Moondrops. Anyway, thanks for the tip about Reecho SG03. Will check them out.

The new TWS I consider buying, will be more used outside, and on trams/the tube etc., that's why I want ANC that works ok.
Yes, maybe I wait for the Sony details.


----------



## johnston21

Mr.Toad said:


> My 2nd day into the PI7…OTOH, I have been experiencing enough glitches to make the whole experience terminally annoying.


Do tell.


----------



## Canabuc

BigZ12 said:


> Yes, I know. The Aria and UTWS3 was just something extra. Curious about both the Fiio and Moondrops. Anyway, thanks for the tip about Reecho SG03. Will check them out.
> 
> The new TWS I consider buying, will be more used outside, and on trams/the tube etc., that's why I want ANC that works ok.
> Yes, maybe I wait for the Sony details.


What makes the Reecho so good?


----------



## mainguy

BigZ12 said:


> Some specs and several comments here lateley, suggests I should just keep my MTW2s and stay happy with that?
> 
> MW08 - muddy bass, too warm sound
> PI7 - no volume control on buds/bad battery and the sound is not in line with the price?
> ...


lol literally every comment in this thread and review published is saying PI7 has insanely good sound.


----------



## jant71

Canabuc said:


> What makes the Reecho so good?


For BT vs. the Aria would be a better fit and iso and easier to drive as it is still the same Starfield driver that likes more power. Again good early reviews but not yet compared directly to Aria yet but sounds like it holds its own.


----------



## Canabuc

jant71 said:


> For BT vs. the Aria would be a better fit and iso and easier to drive as it is still the same Starfield driver that likes more power. Again good early reviews but not yet compared directly to Aria yet but sounds like it holds its own.


Aria fit is great. Easy driven sensitivity is 122db. My Soundmagic dongle amp DAC only needs 40% volume to be as loud as any of my earbuds at nearly 60%


----------



## dj24

Can anyone recommend a bluetooth adapter that can handle two wireless earphones (samsung galaxy buds+ and Jabra Elite 75t) so two people can listen at the same time while watching tv? I can stick it into my Panasonic plasma or my Vizio Soundbar (prefer the latter).

This way the 2 insomniacs don't have to wake the other family members late at night


----------



## Dregur

Well, I'm back on the Melomania Touch train since they were 20% off on Amazon, and now remember why I was so frustrated with them, since they sound so great.

I will say they're still pretty slow connecting to my phone compared to the Galaxy Buds Pro, but at least it's consistent, and they've connecting every time so far (firmware updating was a bit of a pain in the ass, took me 5-6 times to get fully installed on the right earbud). Still the most comfortable TWS earbuds I've ever owned.


----------



## Darkestred (Apr 29, 2021)

Not sure if this is local but ebay has a few options under its 15% off "like-new" TWS.  The XM3 (in white) is slightly appealing at $85.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/274003037794?epid=14034505835&hash=item3fcbda8e62:g:~DAAAOSwfY1geXv0&_trkparms=%26rpp_cid%3D60524757a3d2bbc02320e543

*edit eh nevermind they can be had for as low as ~70.


----------



## Mr.Toad

johnston21 said:


> Do tell.


Random persistent dropouts when my phone (Pixel 5) is close; they usually go away after putting the PI7s back in the case and removing them. Wireless charging isn't working - that's with 3 different wireless chargers. B&W support is a mess (you can't reply to one of their emails, you have to enter a response to their response by refilling out one of their contact forms). The app (android) is buggy: sometimes it won't connect at all; when it succeeds, it causes the audio the sputter during connection. The included eartips have a piece of foam/felt in them that dampens the highs. The sound is quite good, though - with different eartips.


----------



## Mr.Toad

mainguy said:


> lol literally every comment in this thread and review published is saying PI7 has insanely good sound.


It's reasonably good - but not with the included eartips imo.


----------



## clerkpalmer

Got my PI7 today. Very impressive. These sound like what the MW08 “should have”. Balanced with a touch of warmth. I love the fact that nothing is scooped and the bass is deep but accurate.

Bonus points for excellent fit with the stock tips and automatic AptxHD connection to my pixel. The battery life is still an issue and they feel a little cheap and plasticy for 400.

I think they delivered on the promise of class leading sound and tech. I suspect the battery life is the trade off for the hybrid setup, amp quality and AptxHD connection. I’ll need to test the battery using AptxHD to see how bad it is. If you can stomach the price, can’t imagine anyone being disappointed. Are they leaps and bounds better than the competition? No, I don’t think so. But sometimes you have to pay a lot more for that extra 10 percent in this hobby. Some won’t find it worth it. I do.


----------



## samandhi

clerkpalmer said:


> A long time ago in a galaxy far away, Crin participated in the thread. He threw a mini tantrum over some criticism and quit. For the record, I find his reviews very helpful and like him overall. But he really overreacted to a few comments and vowed never to return.


I remember that. IIRC he was accused of being a shill for the manufacturers because some of his reviews didn't "align" with theirs. I personally don't agree with most of his reviews (sound-wise), but he does a great job. I do like that he is no nonsense and only reviews the sound, and not the features though.



BigZ12 said:


> Not in EU shop (and no shop in Norway of course... )


Sorry to hear that... I just noticed yesterday that they are available here in the US (again). Now if we can just get the UTWS3 in stock here, I would be happy.


----------



## erockg

Mr.Toad said:


> Random persistent dropouts when my phone (Pixel 5) is close; they usually go away after putting the PI7s back in the case and removing them. Wireless charging isn't working - that's with 3 different wireless chargers. B&W support is a mess (you can't reply to one of their emails, you have to enter a response to their response by refilling out one of their contact forms). The app (android) is buggy: sometimes it won't connect at all; when it succeeds, it causes the audio the sputter during connection. The included eartips have a piece of foam/felt in them that dampens the highs. The sound is quite good, though - with different eartips.


OK, so I finally took the PI7s out for a 5 mile walk.  I decided I would test them and the new KEF Mu3s outdoors to see which one fared better.
I encountered a few bugs with the PI7.  When I first received them, I experienced random dropouts while sitting at my desk listening to music. Nothing major, but it sounds like Bluetooth skips.  I reset them and that did the trick for a few days but then today it came back.  While walking, if I wasn’t near a building for Bluetooth signal to bounce off of, the Bluetooth skipping happened randomly. Nothing major at all, just a random skip here and there.  Depending on which way you turned your head and how far my iPhone 12 was away from the buds.
Then, earlier today I was listening to an old 80s hair metal track.  Probably not a great source material since a lot of this albums we never mastered very well, but when the song hit a certain moment I heard crackling in the left ear.  I’ve heard this on other headphones, and I’m not a big audiophile so I can’t really tell you why it happens, only that I’m guessing it has something to do with the source material. That said, I didn’t hear it on any other music I listened to.  Also, while using the KEFs on the same song that had crackling, I didn’t hear the same issue.
I’m sharing this because even though these suckers were over $400 after tax and shipping, are they still worth keeping? The ANC is awesome. The sound is awesome, but there’s that little hiccup.  The Bluetooth switching between my Mac and my iPhone is awesome. All I have to do is click on the Bluetooth name and boom I am clicked over to a Zoom call instantly. So, I’m tormented. The honeymoon phase waning. Worth keeping or not? That is the question…
Oh and, ZERO issues like this with the KEFs so far.


----------



## michsu (Apr 29, 2021)

Do Bowers and Wilkins update the firmware in their other headphones after release? I’m meaning do they fix their bugs? If not, then a subpar company compared to them that fixes bugs is better. Haha, I’m close to wanting to buy it because of all the good sound quality reviews. This Bluetooth issue and the volume buttons can just be fixed with newer firmware.


----------



## Mr.Toad

erockg said:


> OK, so I finally took the PI7s out for a 5 mile walk.  I decided I would test them and the new KEF Mu3s outdoors to see which one fared better.
> I encountered a few bugs with the PI7.  When I first received them, I experienced random dropouts while sitting at my desk listening to music. Nothing major, but it sounds like Bluetooth skips.  I reset them and that did the trick for a few days but then today it came back.  While walking, if I wasn’t near a building for Bluetooth signal to bounce off of, the Bluetooth skipping happened randomly. Nothing major at all, just a random skip here and there.  Depending on which way you turned your head and how far my iPhone 12 was away from the buds.
> Then, earlier today I was listening to an old 80s hair metal track.  Probably not a great source material since a lot of this albums we never mastered very well, but when the song hit a certain moment I heard crackling in the left ear.  I’ve heard this on other headphones, and I’m not a big audiophile so I can’t really tell you why it happens, only that I’m guessing it has something to do with the source material. That said, I didn’t hear it on any other music I listened to.  Also, while using the KEFs on the same song that had crackling, I didn’t hear the same issue.
> I’m sharing this because even though these suckers were over $400 after tax and shipping, are they still worth keeping? The ANC is awesome. The sound is awesome, but there’s that little hiccup.  The Bluetooth switching between my Mac and my iPhone is awesome. All I have to do is click on the Bluetooth name and boom I am clicked over to a Zoom call instantly. So, I’m tormented. The honeymoon phase waning. Worth keeping or not? That is the question…
> Oh and, ZERO issues like this with the KEFs so far.


I'm wondering if the bluetooth skipping will get fixed by firmware at some point. From my limited 2 day experience, they are capable of maintaining a stable connection for a while and then the intermittent skipping starts. As you say, this shouldn't be the case for a $400 ($500 in my Canadian case) headphone. I have the MTW2, EAH-AZ70, WF-1000XM3 and none of them skip - ever.
Does wireless charging work for you? Doesn't for me. I contacted B&W support for enlightenment. Useless, I might as well have consulted chicken entrails.


----------



## erockg

Mr.Toad said:


> I'm wondering if the bluetooth skipping will get fixed by firmware at some point. From my limited 2 day experience, they are capable of maintaining a stable connection for a while and then the intermittent skipping starts. As you say, this shouldn't be the case for a $400 ($500 in my Canadian case) headphone. I have the MTW2, EAH-AZ70, WF-1000XM3 and none of them skip - ever.
> Does wireless charging work for you? Doesn't for me. I contacted B&W support for enlightenment. Useless, I might as well have consulted chicken entrails.


It’s frustrating for sure.  

I’m going to try another reset, repair.  

Wireless charging works fine with my Nomad charger.  they should definitely be able to fix bugs with firmware, but B&W is notoriously slow with updates.


----------



## michsu

Which companies are good with updates if they are bad with them? Thanks. Might as well buy their flagship ones. Like Noble Falcons?


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

michsu said:


> Which companies are good with updates if they are bad with them? Thanks. Might as well buy their flagship ones. Like Noble Falcons?


Think it's a catch-22. The Falcon Pros are on v2.0 and have been since I got 'em. Don't see anything that would result in them needing to be updated, unless there's some hope of a features update. Don't have any gripes with HearThrough or the EQ. I think aptX Adaptive is going to be on the smartphone end to fix; LDAC does the same stuff on my older phones. Since Noble is an IEM maker first (and a fantastic one at that), I'm not sure if they'll be spending much time on app development.

I will say this, though: the original Falcon app's interface was awful. The new one is great. I could end up wrong.


----------



## michsu

so these PI7s are worth it to buy, even with the Bluetooth skipping and hopefully for the fix in the future? Thank you.


----------



## W1ll1eTheP1mp

Hello! I need some recommendations/tips about TWS IEMs. I havent followed that market at all since it didnt interest me. BUT now im interested. I have actually worned out the 3.5 mm socket on my LG V40 (using it alot at work for Phone calls, meetings) and its not practically using a wired set at work.

What is considered a good budget TWS IEM these days?

My few criteria's is:
* Battery life
*Good voice quality and mic quality (meeting online and phonecalls).
* not gonna listen to much music with these,BUT podcast on way to job and when outsider walking/jogging
*good fit
*dont want to spend much on this since im not gonna critically listen with these. 

Thanks😁


----------



## senorbroom

I've been following this thread for a while but haven't seen a huge amount of discussion about the Galaxy Buds Pro despite Crinnacle giving them a very favourable review (https://crinacle.com/2021/01/16/samsung-galaxy-buds-pro-review-the-audiophiles-perspective/). I have a pair of Jabra 65Ts which have served me well the past couple of years but the sound is definitely a bit woolly. I am embedded in the Apple ecosystem and love the form factor of the Airpods Pro but can't bring myself to spend that amount of money on something with sub-par sound. I finally bit the bullet and purchased an unopened pair off of Facebook Marketplace for half the RRP (the market is flooded with them from a Samsung promotion). I decided to purchase them despite the fact that they don't have multipoint or iOS support. 

Luckily, the sound is very satisfying. It's nice and clear with defined bass. The treble is slightly metallic but nothing terrible. The ANC is fine for the form factor, and there is a noticeable bass boost when the ANC is turned on. Overall, the sound is surprisingly neutral with great clarity (for a consumer-grade TWS). 

Compared to the Jabras, the case is smaller while the battery life is only slightly longer with ANC on (4.5-5h) but close to double with ANC off (8h). The biggest drawback, however, is that the fit absolutely sucks. None of the supplied ear tips fit, the fit is shallow, and the actual buds themselves don't actually appear to properly rest in the ear. It essentially means that the tips themselves are what is holding the buds in, so it feels very precarious and moving your jaw can work them loose. I have swapped the tips for a larger pair of shallow silicone eartips but have ordered a pair of dual-flange Spinfits (https://www.spinfiteartip.com/en/product-detail/36) and am hoping that (1) they physically fit the nozzle, (2) they physically fit inside the case, and (3) that the deeper insertion gives a more solid feeling of attachment. It's shocking how close Samsung came to a great product but then decided to not support iOS and to mess with the fit (by all accounts the Buds Original and Plus have a great fit).


----------



## Dregur

senorbroom said:


> I've been following this thread for a while but haven't seen a huge amount of discussion about the Galaxy Buds Pro despite Crinnacle giving them a very favourable review (https://crinacle.com/2021/01/16/samsung-galaxy-buds-pro-review-the-audiophiles-perspective/). I have a pair of Jabra 65Ts which have served me well the past couple of years but the sound is definitely a bit woolly. I am embedded in the Apple ecosystem and love the form factor of the Airpods Pro but can't bring myself to spend that amount of money on something with sub-par sound. I finally bit the bullet and purchased an unopened pair off of Facebook Marketplace for half the RRP (the market is flooded with them from a Samsung promotion). I decided to purchase them despite the fact that they don't have multipoint or iOS support.
> 
> Luckily, the sound is very satisfying. It's nice and clear with defined bass. The treble is slightly metallic but nothing terrible. The ANC is fine for the form factor, and there is a noticeable bass boost when the ANC is turned on. Overall, the sound is surprisingly neutral with great clarity (for a consumer-grade TWS).
> 
> Compared to the Jabras, the case is smaller while the battery life is only slightly longer with ANC on (4.5-5h) but close to double with ANC off (8h). The biggest drawback, however, is that the fit absolutely sucks. None of the supplied ear tips fit, the fit is shallow, and the actual buds themselves don't actually appear to properly rest in the ear. It essentially means that the tips themselves are what is holding the buds in, so it feels very precarious and moving your jaw can work them loose. I have swapped the tips for a larger pair of shallow silicone eartips but have ordered a pair of dual-flange Spinfits (https://www.spinfiteartip.com/en/product-detail/36) and am hoping that (1) they physically fit the nozzle, (2) they physically fit inside the case, and (3) that the deeper insertion gives a more solid feeling of attachment. It's shocking how close Samsung came to a great product but then decided to not support iOS and to mess with the fit (by all accounts the Buds Original and Plus have a great fit).


The fit is quite weird: https://www.samsung.com/us/support/...e81d5df4445e1ca627cf57dd0503a289ea56512fe0786
The speaker is supposed to face downward. The supplied tips fit me, and I tend to use large tips on all IEM's I've ever used. For me using the above method, it's secure in my ear, moving my jaw doesn't move it all, but not snug (in contrast to something like the Melomania Touch which is not going to move...at all.) For me, it's much more comfortable to the Galaxy Buds Plus, but not quite as comfortable as the Melomania Touch, which for me is as close to a custom IEM I'll probably ever feel.


----------



## tgx78 (Apr 30, 2021)

Just got the Tronsmart Apollo Air and really liking its SQ. More mature tuning vs Apollo Bold. Comfort is much better as well. I will compare this with my Galaxy Buds Pro soon..


----------



## chinmie

tgx78 said:


> Just got the Tronsmart Apollo Air and really liking its SQ. More mature tuning vs Apollo Bold. Comfort is much better as well. I will compare this with my Galaxy Buds Pro soon..



I'm waiting for my unit too


----------



## senorbroom

Dregur said:


> The fit is quite weird: https://www.samsung.com/us/support/...e81d5df4445e1ca627cf57dd0503a289ea56512fe0786
> The speaker is supposed to face downward. The supplied tips fit me, and I tend to use large tips on all IEM's I've ever used. For me using the above method, it's secure in my ear, moving my jaw doesn't move it all, but not snug (in contrast to something like the Melomania Touch which is not going to move...at all.) For me, it's much more comfortable to the Galaxy Buds Plus, but not quite as comfortable as the Melomania Touch, which for me is as close to a custom IEM I'll probably ever feel.


Oh my god, thank you for this. The fit is still very weak but it definitely feels more natural.


----------



## Mlaihk

senorbroom said:


> Oh my god, thank you for this. The fit is still very weak but it definitely feels more natural.


I absolutely loved the buds pro as my go to TWS.  I had my fair share of TWS over the past 2 years and in term of voice call quality/SQ/control, I liked them the best overall.  Granted my MTW2 and MTW still sound a bit better than the Buds Pro but the buds pro win over them in ANC and control department.  I ditch my Libratone TrackAir+ SE/B&O version 2, and all the old versions of Samsung buds (literally I had all of them from the beginning from buying phones.....).

So when I am at home I will sometimes use MTW2 but mostly will end up with a pair of wired IEMs (Andromeda Gold/S/2020, IT01s, Fiio DD5) but when I am out and about, I pretty much always have my Buds Pro with me.

The shallow fit on the buds pro can be mitigated with Sedna XElastic Tips.  The buds pro sound fantastic and stay in my ear with these tips on.


----------



## bronco1015

BigZ12 said:


> Some specs and several comments here lateley, suggests I should just keep my MTW2s and stay happy with that?
> 
> MW08 - muddy bass, too warm sound
> PI7 - no volume control on buds/bad battery and the sound is not in line with the price?
> ...


I've had my MTW2 for just over a year, and am getting a review unit of the MW08 sent. Don't know for sure yet when it's gonna be here, but I'll share some comparisons between the 2.


----------



## bronco1015

chinmie said:


> I'm waiting for my unit too


Me too. Looking forward to them.


----------



## Mr.Toad

michsu said:


> so these PI7s are worth it to buy, even with the Bluetooth skipping and hopefully for the fix in the future? Thank you.


It depends what you mean by "worth it". Competition in true wireless phones is pretty fierce at the moment, and most other vendors seem to be capable of releasing new products without the problems I am getting with the PI7s. I'm going to attempt to return mine because wireless charging doesn't work; so I suppose I should add QC to my list of glitches.

If you enjoy the B&W sound (I quite like it), then these might be for you; prepare yourself for possible frustrations, though.


----------



## mainguy

Another review for PI7 from expert reviews, same thing, they say they’re the best sounding tws buds. I’ve not seen reviewers so unanimous on a tws before, it’s usually all over the place.

Getting closer and closer to pulling the trigger lol


----------



## johnston21 (Apr 30, 2021)

Mr.Toad said:


> Random persistent dropouts when my phone (Pixel 5) is close; they usually go away after putting the PI7s back in the case and removing them. Wireless charging isn't working - that's with 3 different wireless chargers. B&W support is a mess (you can't reply to one of their emails, you have to enter a response to their response by refilling out one of their contact forms). The app (android) is buggy: sometimes it won't connect at all; when it succeeds, it causes the audio the sputter during connection. The included eartips have a piece of foam/felt in them that dampens the highs. The sound is quite good, though - with different eartips.


Suggestion; try setting the source to aptx Classic to see if the drop-outs get less frequent (and let us know please).

How is the latency for TV via the case?

Curious to know if you imported or purchased through a Canadian Retailer. Bay Bloor Radio (Toronto) is still showing Pre-Order, though they mentioned they anticipate delivery soon.


----------



## C_Lindbergh

https://www.theverge.com/2021/4/29/22410088/microsoft-windows-10-bluetooth-aac-support-update

Jabra/airpods users will especially enjoy this update.


----------



## earmonger (Apr 30, 2021)

W1ll1eTheP1mp said:


> Hello! I need some recommendations/tips about TWS IEMs. I havent followed that market at all since it didnt interest me. BUT now im interested. I have actually worned out the 3.5 mm socket on my LG V40 (using it alot at work for Phone calls, meetings) and its not practically using a wired set at work.
> 
> What is considered a good budget TWS IEM these days?
> 
> ...


You have an Android phone so you should consider the original Samsung Galaxy Buds -- heavily discounted now that Samsung has also released the +, Pro and  Live. You can find them as open-box sales on Ebay for $35-$45, and whoa, here are white ones claimed as new for $30.
https://www.ebay.com/p/3029545004

  It's as mainstream as you can get, but that's not a bad thing for casual use.

Though the later Samsungs are said to have upgraded sound, even the original buds sound clear and will be just fine for podcasts. They were praised for battery life in reviews at the time. Google around for reviews. Also, since you've had your phone for awhile,  make sure your Android version will work with the Samsung app. ( Android 5.0 or higher with 1.5GB of RAM)


----------



## dasadab

mainguy said:


> Another review for PI7 from expert reviews, same thing, they say they’re the best sounding tws buds. I’ve not seen reviewers so unanimous on a tws before, it’s usually all over the place.
> 
> Getting closer and closer to pulling the trigger lol


I was ready to try something new, so I bought the PI7s.  I must say that I have had none of the dropout or wireless charging issues mentioned above.  I will say that I walked around with them again this morning with Iphone in back pocket—zero dropouts.  I think I have been guilty in the past of listening to my IEMs at too low of volume.  Today, I gave the PI7s a little “headroom” with a bit more volume than I usually use—I tended in the past to keep the volume just above flat sounding—all I can say is the PI7s really started to shine.  My Sonys and MTW are solid, the these new buds are, to me, much more engaging.  (I know, I should go back and test these others with a little more juice, but I am having a great time with the PI7s now.). I will add that I don’t care about long battery life (within reason), if it means more amp power.


----------



## TK33

earmonger said:


> You have an Android phone so you should consider the original Samsung Galaxy Buds -- heavily discounted now that Samsung has also released the +, Pro and  Live. You can find them as open-box sales on Ebay for $35-$45.  It's as mainstream as you can get, but that's not a bad thing for casual use.
> 
> Though the later Samsungs are said to have upgraded sound, even the original buds sound clear and will be just fine for podcasts. They were praised for battery life in reviews at the time. Google around for reviews. Also, since you've had your phone for awhile,  make sure your Android version will work with the Samsung app. ( Android 5.0 or higher with 1.5GB of RAM)


Buds live and Pro have better mic quality.  Vkice is ok on original buds but they dont really cancel out background noise but should be ok if you take your calls in a quiet room.  

If you're looking at Samsung, they also have a trade in program where you can send them just about anything for $20 off.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

dasadab said:


> I was ready to try something new, so I bought the PI7s.  I must say that I have had none of the dropout or wireless charging issues mentioned above.  I will say that I walked around with them again this morning with Iphone in back pocket—zero dropouts.  I think I have been guilty in the past of listening to my IEMs at too low of volume.  Today, I gave the PI7s a little “headroom” with a bit more volume than I usually use—I tended in the past to keep the volume just above flat sounding—all I can say is the PI7s really started to shine.  My Sonys and MTW are solid, the these new buds are, to me, much more engaging.  (I know, I should go back and test these others with a little more juice, but I am having a great time with the PI7s now.). I will add that I don’t care about long battery life (within reason), if it means more amp power.


Glad they're working out for you!

From what I could tell, the dropout issues were in places that there are no buildings to bounce the BT signal back to you. I deal with it pretty constantly if I try to use any of my buds in an open park, but consider that to be more of the "infrequent cases" category.

Another note is that, by you using these with an iPhone, they can transmit over AAC instead of aptX HD/Adaptive. Both of those aren't necessarily as robust as AAC is, just on account of age and generation.

And I agree; I can trade battery life for fantastic sound as long as I don't need these things in all day. Ironically, my 85t are the worst offenders with that. Usually can't make it through a couple Zoom calls before it's begging to be charged again.


C_Lindbergh said:


> https://www.theverge.com/2021/4/29/22410088/microsoft-windows-10-bluetooth-aac-support-update
> 
> Jabra/airpods users will especially enjoy this update.


Lol of course they'd tease it for the Fall update. Cynicism aside, it's been a long time coming and I hope they manage to pull it off.

Oh and I'm keeping the WH3 for now. They sat in a shipping box for a week waiting to go out, but between having my red anniversary and a couple bruised bones to nurse, just never cam around to it. After reading all the PI7 feedback, I figured it'd make more sense to keep and hope they add more features in via a firmware update.

The R5 Saber is gone, though, so can't test UAT. Oh well.


----------



## Caipirina (Apr 30, 2021)

Quick one: Best ANC with AptX?
I double checked and my favs (Bose QC buds and Jabra 85t) only do AAC/SBC. And i know that the Tronsmart Apollo Bold do AptX, but I had some really weird issues when I tried to switch them from phone to my Tempotec V1 .. I did not want to try that again ...
Seems I need to look into getting the MTW2 here


----------



## dj24

Seems the pendulum is swinging to the big names now and chi-fi is taking a backseat at least until someone steps up to the plate with excellent overall SQ..


----------



## jhwalker

Just a quick update on the Devialet Gemini.  

The new firmware has completely resolved any issues I had (mostly where at least one of the earbuds would discharge to 0% while in the case) and sound is still fantastic.  ANC is VERY good (literally, almost no sound gets through and tone really doesn't change at all ANC on vs. off).

I consider these my most accurate phones to listen to, including among my over-ear headphones (e.g., HiFiMan HE-500, MrSpeakers Alpha Dog, Focal Elegia, Dan Clark Aeon 2 Closed) and various TWS / IEMs (e.g., UEFit, Tevi, Blessing 2, etc.).  For sheer pleasure, I'd say it's close between the Aeon, the Blessing 2, and the Gemini.

Very glad I kept them ... though of course, I'm still jones-ing to try the KEF and B&W offerings


----------



## erockg

jhwalker said:


> Just a quick update on the Devialet Gemini.
> 
> The new firmware has completely resolved any issues I had (mostly where at least one of the earbuds would discharge to 0% while in the case) and sound is still fantastic.  ANC is VERY good (literally, almost no sound gets through and tone really doesn't change at all ANC on vs. off).
> 
> ...


This is great news.  Can't wait to repurchase to go along with my B&Ws and KEFs.


----------



## rsbanner

erockg said:


> OK, so I finally took the PI7s out for a 5 mile walk.  I decided I would test them and the new KEF Mu3s outdoors to see which one fared better.
> I encountered a few bugs with the PI7.  When I first received them, I experienced random dropouts while sitting at my desk listening to music. Nothing major, but it sounds like Bluetooth skips.  I reset them and that did the trick for a few days but then today it came back.  While walking, if I wasn’t near a building for Bluetooth signal to bounce off of, the Bluetooth skipping happened randomly. Nothing major at all, just a random skip here and there.  Depending on which way you turned your head and how far my iPhone 12 was away from the buds.
> Then, earlier today I was listening to an old 80s hair metal track.  Probably not a great source material since a lot of this albums we never mastered very well, but when the song hit a certain moment I heard crackling in the left ear.  I’ve heard this on other headphones, and I’m not a big audiophile so I can’t really tell you why it happens, only that I’m guessing it has something to do with the source material. That said, I didn’t hear it on any other music I listened to.  Also, while using the KEFs on the same song that had crackling, I didn’t hear the same issue.
> I’m sharing this because even though these suckers were over $400 after tax and shipping, are they still worth keeping? The ANC is awesome. The sound is awesome, but there’s that little hiccup.  The Bluetooth switching between my Mac and my iPhone is awesome. All I have to do is click on the Bluetooth name and boom I am clicked over to a Zoom call instantly. So, I’m tormented. The honeymoon phase waning. Worth keeping or not? That is the question…
> Oh and, ZERO issues like this with the KEFs so





erockg said:


> OK, so I finally took the PI7s out for a 5 mile walk.  I decided I would test them and the new KEF Mu3s outdoors to see which one fared better.
> I encountered a few bugs with the PI7.  When I first received them, I experienced random dropouts while sitting at my desk listening to music. Nothing major, but it sounds like Bluetooth skips.  I reset them and that did the trick for a few days but then today it came back.  While walking, if I wasn’t near a building for Bluetooth signal to bounce off of, the Bluetooth skipping happened randomly. Nothing major at all, just a random skip here and there.  Depending on which way you turned your head and how far my iPhone 12 was away from the buds.
> Then, earlier today I was listening to an old 80s hair metal track.  Probably not a great source material since a lot of this albums we never mastered very well, but when the song hit a certain moment I heard crackling in the left ear.  I’ve heard this on other headphones, and I’m not a big audiophile so I can’t really tell you why it happens, only that I’m guessing it has something to do with the source material. That said, I didn’t hear it on any other music I listened to.  Also, while using the KEFs on the same song that had crackling, I didn’t hear the same issue.
> I’m sharing this because even though these suckers were over $400 after tax and shipping, are they still worth keeping? The ANC is awesome. The sound is awesome, but there’s that little hiccup.  The Bluetooth switching between my Mac and my iPhone is awesome. All I have to do is click on the Bluetooth name and boom I am clicked over to a Zoom call instantly. So, I’m tormented. The honeymoon phase waning. Worth keeping or not? That is the question…
> Oh and, ZERO issues like this with the KEFs so far.


Good to know, it does sound like the KEFs are better, well... more reliable...


----------



## michsu

But that can hopefully be fixed with firmware update for PI7.


----------



## erockg

rsbanner said:


> Good to know, it does sound like the KEFs are better, well... more reliable...


No issues today, so who knows what's up.  I did reset them, repair and reboot everything.  Fingers crossed.


----------



## clerkpalmer

jhwalker said:


> Just a quick update on the Devialet Gemini.
> 
> The new firmware has completely resolved any issues I had (mostly where at least one of the earbuds would discharge to 0% while in the case) and sound is still fantastic.  ANC is VERY good (literally, almost no sound gets through and tone really doesn't change at all ANC on vs. off).
> 
> ...


Probably the pot calling the kettle black but .... if you have the Gemini I’m not sure the PI7 is necessary. Slightly different sound signature but a side grade at best. Honestly owning both is overkill. But gluttony is good right?


----------



## Mr.Toad

johnston21 said:


> Suggestion; try setting the source to aptx Classic to see if the drop-outs get less frequent (and let us know please).
> 
> How is the latency for TV via the case?
> 
> Curious to know if you imported or purchased through a Canadian Retailer. Bay Bloor Radio (Toronto) is still showing Pre-Order, though they mentioned they anticipate delivery soon.


I haven't tried aptx without HD or TV via the case. I bought them through the B&W online store. They were shipped directly to me from the US - took 3 business days.

Wireless charging doesn't work, so they will be going back.


----------



## Thesonofkrypton

A lot of PI7 talk going on, understandably.  Anyone purchase the PI5? Would be interested in how they sound given the more affordable price tag.


----------



## TK33

Mr.Toad said:


> I haven't tried aptx without HD or TV via the case. I bought them through the B&W online store. They were shipped directly to me from the US - took 3 business days.
> 
> Wireless charging doesn't work, so they will be going back.


Seems like you may have gotten a lemon.  Sorry to hear.  Happened to me with the M&D MW07 Go (bad battery) when they first came out and I waited a few months to repurchase. Seems to happen a lot with TWS unfortunately.


----------



## cresny

clerkpalmer said:


> Probably the pot calling the kettle black but .... if you have the Gemini I’m not sure the PI7 is necessary. Slightly different sound signature but a side grade at best. Honestly owning both is overkill. But gluttony is good right?


I nearly bought the Pi7 when there was that 20% off deal, but came to this conclusion. When I read that you need to use the app to access transparency mode, that sealed it. I really like the Gemini controls, simple and convenient.


----------



## BigZ12 (Apr 30, 2021)

jhwalker said:


> Just a quick update on the Devialet Gemini.
> The new firmware has completely resolved any issues I had (mostly where at least one of the earbuds would discharge to 0% while in the case) and sound is still fantastic.  ANC is VERY good (literally, almost no sound gets through and tone really doesn't change at all ANC on vs. off).
> 
> I consider these my most accurate phones to listen to, including among my over-ear headphones (e.g., HiFiMan HE-500, MrSpeakers Alpha Dog, Focal Elegia, Dan Clark Aeon 2 Closed) and various TWS / IEMs (e.g., UEFit, Tevi, Blessing 2, etc.).  For sheer pleasure, I'd say it's close between the Aeon, the Blessing 2, and the Gemini.
> ...


Haven't considered these because the quirks some of you have mentioned.
Now with most of them fixed, they are interesting.

Good sound and ANC, Ear Active Matching, 6 hours battery, AAC/AptX, good app? (EQ?)

No volume control on the buds, is that the only downside? Do they have wireless charging? A bit pricey maybe?
Edit: And big charging case I see.


----------



## TK33

cresny said:


> I nearly bought the Pi7 when there was that 20% off deal, but came to this conclusion. When I read that you need to use the app to access transparency mode, that sealed it. I really like the Gemini controls, simple and convenient.


I hear you.  I also hesitated because of the controls but in the end I bit and ordered it.  I realized that ever since the pandemic started, I am hesitant to touch my earbuds when I am out and about (reason why I love the open design of Galaxy Buds Live) and have gotten used to pulling my phone out to control music, volume etc.  Also, I really wish there was a standardized set of controls for those people with multiple pairs of TWS.  Sometimes I am just guessing if I havent used a device in a long time.


----------



## jhwalker

BigZ12 said:


> Haven't considered these because the quirks some of you have mentioned.
> Now with most of them fixed, they are interesting.
> 
> Good sound and ANC, Ear Active Matching, 6 hours battery, AAC/AptX, good app? (EQ?)
> ...



I guess "big" is a relative term - the Gemini charging case is not so small as (say) the AirPods Pro, but not so large as some I've seen.  They're really all about the same size, as far as I can tell 🤷‍♂️ I mean, none are so large as a deck of cards, or so small as a sugar cube ...

And I don't use volume controls on ANY of my headphones - guess I'm old-fashioned that way:  I use the volume controls in my player app (or the hardware buttons on my phone, if using it with a phone).

Finally, they actually DO support wireless charging - I'm not really a wireless charging kind of guy (give me a good ol' cable any time  but just tried them out on a charger I happened to have sitting around and confirmed they do charge wirelessly.


----------



## Mr.Toad

TK33 said:


> Seems like you may have gotten a lemon.  Sorry to hear.  Happened to me with the M&D MW07 Go (bad battery) when they first came out and I waited a few months to repurchase. Seems to happen a lot with TWS unfortunately.


Yes, looks like it. Annoying but not a catastrophe of apocalyptic proportions. I did a hard reset on them and bluetooth stability has improved for the moment. I do like the way they sound, although I have to lift the highs to make them suit me; once done they sound very good to my ears.


----------



## erockg

Mr.Toad said:


> Yes, looks like it. Annoying but not a catastrophe of apocalyptic proportions. I did a hard reset on them and bluetooth stability has improved for the moment. I do like the way they sound, although I have to lift the highs to make them suit me; once done they sound very good to my ears.


The sound IS great, but even after resetting, I just took a walk and at every crosswalk they cut out if I turned my head to the right.  Phone is in my left pocket always.  Ugh.  Is it worth keeping a great sounding pair of $400+ buds if you can use them outdoors?


----------



## michsu

Did anyone tell them about the problem? I don’t how long they will need to fix the issue though, but there shouldn’t have been problems at the start.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

michsu said:


> Did anyone tell them about the problem? I don’t how long they will need to fix the issue though, but there shouldn’t have been problems at the start.


This isn't as atypical as you'd think, but if we applied this same standard to the MT, nobody would still own them right now.

I know it seems frustrating, but we have to hope B&W will give updates with a fix relatively quickly. They're not going to have an issue getting sales. Managing returns is going to be a sticking point


----------



## michsu

It just came out, so it should be fixed sooner or later. I read that earbuds you mentioned had a bunch of issues too, but they were fixed recently?


----------



## erockg

michsu said:


> It just came out, so it should be fixed sooner or later. I read that earbuds you mentioned had a bunch of issues too, but they were fixed recently?


Usually, there's a firmware right aways, as in, as soon as you pair them up.  In this case, not so much.  MT released their updates very quickly.  They had a lot to fix.  There's no way to tell when B&W will push out a fw update.  Time will tell.


----------



## michsu (Apr 30, 2021)

A standard answer but I found this -

https://support.bowerswilkins.com/a...-or-interference-when-streaming-via-bluetooth

Which kind of phone has the issue? Iphone or Andriod? Maybe a older or newer Bluetooth version interferes with other things?

found this just now too
https://www.quora.com/Why-don-t-my-...network-on-Android-devices-but-does-on-iPhone


----------



## BigZ12

Anyone notice any difference with the new APP 3E751 firmware?
I have new Comply tips (L), and just updated today. 
Find both sound (deeper/punchier bass) and ANC noticably better.

FYI, I've returned my APP's 3 times because of the so called "Rattlegate" (and also missing bass and yellow ear fit test after a little while).
After Oct 20, they did some small improvements (recessed grills etc), and the last replacement I got was produced in January. 
They are surprisingly good, and I use them every day now. Very good allrounder I think.


----------



## jant71

So, the info today is not that the Lypertek PurePlay Z7 is for sale but that it will be available in June. Price is $199. Figured the "Buy Now" link would start working today but just another announcement for the final details.


----------



## michsu

jant71 said:


> So, the info today is not that the Lypertek PurePlay Z7 is for sale but that it will be available in June. Price is $199. Figured the "Buy Now" link would start working today but just another announcement for the final details.


https://www.techradar.com/news/lype...rbuds-boast-unbelievable-80-hour-battery-life


----------



## clerkpalmer

michsu said:


> https://www.techradar.com/news/lype...rbuds-boast-unbelievable-80-hour-battery-life


So how can Lypertek do a triple driver with aptx adaptive and advertise 10 hours (note they disclose that is with sbc and medium volume) but the pI7 are 4? Strange.


----------



## michsu

Looking at the Qualcomm chips. I can’t find any using the 5151, but found one saying it will use the new 5141. It looks very promising with the battery life.

https://cleeraudio.com/coming_soon/ally-plus-ii/


----------



## jant71

clerkpalmer said:


> So how can Lypertek do a triple driver with aptx adaptive and advertise 10 hours (note they disclose that is with sbc and medium volume) but the pI7 are 4? Strange.


The B&W has two amps, one for each of the drivers so there goes your battery. Lypertek needs to show they have done a good job on pushing 3 drivers or do they not perform as well as they could in favor of better battery life. In about another month we will see how they did.


----------



## Mr.Toad

michsu said:


> Did anyone tell them about the problem? I don’t how long they will need to fix the issue though, but there shouldn’t have been problems at the start.


I've been emailing B&W support about all this. That has been an adventure in its own right.


----------



## Mr.Toad (Apr 30, 2021)

michsu said:


> A standard answer but I found this -
> 
> https://support.bowerswilkins.com/a...-or-interference-when-streaming-via-bluetooth
> 
> ...


That's the standard boilerplate stuff that one has to wade through before getting anyone to admit there is a problem - "no I didn't have my head in a microwave oven when the dropouts occurred", type of thing. In my case, the phone is Android, specifically a Pixel 5.


----------



## jant71

Hey, Qi isn't the only wireless charging...




Now we got solar!


----------



## TK33

Mr.Toad said:


> That's the standard boilerplate stuff that one has to wade through before getting anyone to admit there is a problem - "no I didn't have my head in a microwave oven when the dropouts occurred", type of thing. In my case, the phone is Android, specifically a Pixel 5.


And you are absolutely sure at least one earbud was in your ear(s) when the dropout(s) occurred and that they were powered on after unplugging the AC cord from the earbuds and counting backwards from 30 before plugging them back in?? (I am just kidding of course)


----------



## clerkpalmer

jant71 said:


> The B&W has two amps, one for each of the drivers so there goes your battery. Lypertek needs to show they have done a good job on pushing 3 drivers or do they not perform as well as they could in favor of better battery life. In about another month we will see how they did.


Good point on the amps. The lypertek look solid but getting up in the 200 price range means expectations are high.


----------



## SemiAudiophile (Apr 30, 2021)

A welcome surprise came in the mail today!

USPS didn't update their tracking, so I wasn't expecting a delivery. I thought they were still stuck in customs. 




Couldn't get it to pair with my Pixel 5 for some reason. It will pair but not connect. Tries to connect then immediately disconnects. Same with the app. Will try to open but closes on its own.

I managed to get it to connect to my older Honor 8x phone though. App works fine on older phone too. App only allows 3 EQ presets??? No custom EQ is weird. I did notice some weird disconnects in a middle of a track too. Music will suddenly stop and skip to next?

So far it sounds amazing with the B2 Dusk though...this might be my favorite pairing with the Dusk so far. I already like them together more than with the hip dac. It's making me take back some of my earlier comments about the Dusk. These really make them come alive!


----------



## Mr.Toad

TK33 said:


> And you are absolutely sure at least one earbud was in your ear(s) when the dropout(s) occurred and that they were powered on after unplugging the AC cord from the earbuds and counting backwards from 30 before plugging them back in?? (I am just kidding of course)


 Well, I do have some sympathy for tech support people. Back in the dark ages when I worked on mainframes, we used to do a loopback test (networks ran on twisted pairs in those days) and the routine was that we would ask the user at the other end to unplug the RS232 cable from his modem and insert a paper clip between pins 2 and 3 - send and receive. One user came back to the phone furious because he had been electrocuted. It turned out that he had unplugged the modem from the power socket and inserted his paper clip the power receptacle. It was pins 2 and 3, though.


----------



## tinyman392

SemiAudiophile said:


> A welcome surprise came in the mail today!
> 
> USPS didn't update their tracking, so I wasn't expecting a delivery. I thought they were still stuck in customs.
> 
> ...


It’s a PITA, but you could try updating firmware and hoping that fixes things. I do have to warn, the first bud updates easily, the second never had updated easily for me. Once one is updated both need to though.

I was able to get Jen to connect to my Blu branded phone, but app wouldn’t work. I can get it to connect on my Pixel 3 from both the phone and app though.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

jant71 said:


> The B&W has two amps, one for each of the drivers so there goes your battery. Lypertek needs to show they have done a good job on pushing 3 drivers or do they not perform as well as they could in favor of better battery life. In about another month we will see how they did.


I dont get why they couldn't get a single amp with a crossover network in there instead.


----------



## SemiAudiophile

tinyman392 said:


> It’s a PITA, but you could try updating firmware and hoping that fixes things. I do have to warn, the first bud updates easily, the second never had updated easily for me. Once one is updated both need to though.
> 
> I was able to get Jen to connect to my Blu branded phone, but app wouldn’t work. I can get it to connect on my Pixel 3 from both the phone and app though.


It says I'm already on the latest firmware. 😅


----------



## samandhi

SemiAudiophile said:


> A welcome surprise came in the mail today!
> 
> USPS didn't update their tracking, so I wasn't expecting a delivery. I thought they were still stuck in customs.
> 
> ...


I am so jealous. Still unavailable on Amazon, and Shenzhenaudio updated status to "This product is expected to ship in May". As I mentioned earlier, I CAN find it on Ebay, but I won't pay what they are asking for it over the retail price.... 

If they sound great with the Dusk, I would bet they will probably also sound great with the Audio Sense T800. What is different about the sound compared to the Hip DAC? Glad you found a great combination BTW!


----------



## TK33

bronco1015 said:


> I'm curious to see whether or not you'll have that issue with the V60 defaulting to Adaptive instead of HD on the PI7. heres hoping that's not the case.


Will find out soon hopefully. Status finally changed to preparing for shipment (I have been obsessively checking).


----------



## SemiAudiophile (May 1, 2021)

samandhi said:


> If they sound great with the Dusk, I would bet they will probably also sound great with the Audio Sense T800. What is different about the sound compared to the Hip DAC? Glad you found a great combination BTW!


I never really felt like the Dusk and Hip DAC were a good match. Although, it did sound pretty good in certain ways, I always felt something about the pairing didn't quite sound "right". Even though the Hip DAC is a pretty capable little amp some of the things I mentioned previously about the Dusk like congestion and lack of treble detail were more apparent with the Hip DAC. I tried to resolve this by using different tips and even cables but in the end, I was really trying to mask the symptoms instead of finding the cure? I love the Hip DAC and it drives my other IEMs very well but sometimes power isn't enough.

With the UTWS3, I don't find the sound to be congested at all. Layering and imaging appears to be better, as well as treble detail. The sound is clean and very well controlled with a quiet background. I feel like I finally unlocked what the B2's are capable of and I now understand what the hype was about. Everything just sounds "right" where they are supposed to be.  I'm still getting used to the sound but so far, I am quite happy.  

Finally got it to connect with my Pixel 5! Whew. Still can't get the app working though but I'm sure that'll be fixed soon with an update.


----------



## tinyman392

SemiAudiophile said:


> It says I'm already on the latest firmware. 😅


Oof, that's really odd then.  I wonder what's going on with them.  I'd say to contact Fiio, but they really haven't been much help for me on the software-side of things.


----------



## W1ll1eTheP1mp

earmonger said:


> You have an Android phone so you should consider the original Samsung Galaxy Buds -- heavily discounted now that Samsung has also released the +, Pro and  Live. You can find them as open-box sales on Ebay for $35-$45, and whoa, here are white ones claimed as new for $30.
> https://www.ebay.com/p/3029545004
> 
> It's as mainstream as you can get, but that's not a bad thing for casual use.
> ...


Thanks so much. Gonna check the used markert for Galaxy buds here in Norway! Im 100% sure that the app will be compatible with my LG v40 😁


----------



## W1ll1eTheP1mp

TK33 said:


> Buds live and Pro have better mic quality.  Vkice is ok on original buds but they dont really cancel out background noise but should be ok if you take your calls in a quiet room.
> 
> If you're looking at Samsung, they also have a trade in program where you can send them just about anything for $20 off.


Idk how that works in Norway, where i live. And im very interested in buying used/second hand 😁


----------



## potix

miserybeforethemusic said:


> I dont get why they couldn't get a single amp with a crossover network in there instead.


Probably the same reasons why active crossovers are used for loudspeakers, they have some benefits especially in digital domain. Better dynamics, efficiency, less phase errors etc... Are PI7 the first tws using this design?


----------



## SilverEars

$10 with $20 clipable coupon.  Fit kinda sucks though.  

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08QTLS3R5


----------



## Caipirina

What can the Sennheiser Momentum TW2 better than the Bose QC EarBuds or Jabra 85t? 
My hoarding heart has found a local source for the MTW2, bit crazy price wise, but what can I do, can't fly somewhere else for shopping  
I have the Bose and the Jabras and love them a LOT, but neither of them has AptX .. which got me to look around and I recall that when the MTW2s were fresh, there was a lot of positive talk here ... 
Now, I checked some YT reviews ... (remember Jimmy? That made me realize how long the MTW2 have already been on the market, when Jimmy still did reviews) ... and overall I am not super convinced ... the fit could be an issue, the sound could be too 'neutral' ... and I really am not a fan of touch vs click buttons .. but at least they can be remapped .. 
Now, why would you say I still should get the MTW2 in my stable? The ANC seems to be about the same (and really depenidng on fit) ..


----------



## samandhi

SemiAudiophile said:


> I never really felt like the Dusk and Hip DAC were a good match. Although, it did sound pretty good in certain ways, I always felt something about the pairing didn't quite sound "right". Even though the Hip DAC is a pretty capable little amp some of the things I mentioned previously about the Dusk like congestion and lack of treble detail were more apparent with the Hip DAC. I tried to resolve this by using different tips and even cables but in the end, I was really trying to mask the symptoms instead of finding the cure? I love the Hip DAC and it drives my other IEMs very well but sometimes power isn't enough.
> 
> With the UTWS3, I don't find the sound to be congested at all. Layering and imaging appears to be better, as well as treble detail. The sound is clean and very well controlled with a quiet background. I feel like I finally unlocked what the B2's are capable of and I now understand what the hype was about. Everything just sounds "right" where they are supposed to be.  I'm still getting used to the sound but so far, I am quite happy.
> 
> Finally got it to connect with my Pixel 5! Whew. Still can't get the app working though but I'm sure that'll be fixed soon with an update.


Good layering and imaging is a good sign of "guts". You have me more excited than ever to try the UTWS3. I am concerned about the connection and app issue though,  because while they DO make good hardware, Fiio has a track record with software. See below:


tinyman392 said:


> Oof, that's really odd then.  I wonder what's going on with them.  I'd say to contact Fiio, but they really haven't been much help for me on the software-side of things.


I remember my experience with Fiio back in the X5 (first gen) days (also and including the X3II). When these DAPS first came out Fiio became an instant success company because they were offering hardware that was 90% of what you could get with an A&K DAP at that time, for 1/4 of the cost. It was a lot like ChiFi IEMs of nowadays. I bought both of the previously mentioned DAPs knowing that there were some issues with the software interface (I should have known better in hindsight).

Fiio made promises about making the software mature, and they even did put out some small updates, so why wouldn't people believe in them, because the sound was really amazing for the tech available at that time?! After a while it became apparent that they were not going to fix the big ticket items, and the proof came on the day when they decided to abandon their custom software type DAPs altogether for the first android DAP. To this day both of those DAPs I have are (IMHO) unfinished on the software side, and have some debilitating bugs. Don't get me wrong they are fine devices, but I lost faith in Fiio about making promises that they have no intention of keeping. 

The morale of the story is; don't buy something that is not 100% complete from companies like Fiio unless you are willing to deal with the device in its current state for its entire life-cycle. I really like their hardware, but they really suck on the software side (though they seem to have gotten better in many ways). 

I am certainly not trying to dissuade people from buying their products, I just don't want people to feel "betrayed" in the end if you they are invested into the product thinking they will "fix" things not working from the start.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

potix said:


> Probably the same reasons why active crossovers are used for loudspeakers, they have some benefits especially in digital domain. Better dynamics, efficiency, less phase errors etc... Are PI7 the first tws using this design?


Maybe.

I mean it makes perfect sense in the loudspeaker realm because you have much bigger cabinets to fit those crossover networks into and amplification comes from an external source that's mains-powered. But here, everything is micro-sized.

The standard practice I've seen is PCB crossover with a single amplification source. If B&W went a different route, that plus the aptX HD signal would drain these batteries proper quick.


Caipirina said:


> What can the Sennheiser Momentum TW2 better than the Bose QC EarBuds or Jabra 85t?
> My hoarding heart has found a local source for the MTW2, bit crazy price wise, but what can I do, can't fly somewhere else for shopping
> I have the Bose and the Jabras and love them a LOT, but neither of them has AptX .. which got me to look around and I recall that when the MTW2s were fresh, there was a lot of positive talk here ...
> Now, I checked some YT reviews ... (remember Jimmy? That made me realize how long the MTW2 have already been on the market, when Jimmy still did reviews) ... and overall I am not super convinced ... the fit could be an issue, the sound could be too 'neutral' ... and I really am not a fan of touch vs click buttons .. but at least they can be remapped ..
> Now, why would you say I still should get the MTW2 in my stable? The ANC seems to be about the same (and really depenidng on fit) ..


It's a middling sound signature at best, but I would place it above the 85t for sure. 85t is also more comfortable for me to wear longer-term and the pull-down notification widget I can utilize makes adjusting ANC/hearthrough on the fly a breeze.

It's the practical choice, not the audiophile's one. Hope that helps.


samandhi said:


> Good layering and imaging is a good sign of "guts". You have me more excited than ever to try the UTWS3. I am concerned about the connection and app issue though,  because while they DO make good hardware, Fiio has a track record with software. See below:
> 
> I remember my experience with Fiio back in the X5 (first gen) days (also and including the X3II). When these DAPS first came out Fiio became an instant success company because they were offering hardware that was 90% of what you could get with an A&K DAP at that time, for 1/4 of the cost. It was a lot like ChiFi IEMs of nowadays. I bought both of the previously mentioned DAPs knowing that there were some issues with the software interface (I should have known better in hindsight).
> 
> ...


Bingo. Let's not forget i had to physically reach out to Cambridge to feel like the ball was rolling on this stuff. We understand our needs better than them a lot of the time because we have to use these devices daily.

Then again, James from Cambridge said he was in the works on making an account months ago and we haven't heard anything since.


----------



## tinyman392

samandhi said:


> Good layering and imaging is a good sign of "guts". You have me more excited than ever to try the UTWS3. I am concerned about the connection and app issue though,  because while they DO make good hardware, Fiio has a track record with software. See below:
> 
> I remember my experience with Fiio back in the X5 (first gen) days (also and including the X3II). When these DAPS first came out Fiio became an instant success company because they were offering hardware that was 90% of what you could get with an A&K DAP at that time, for 1/4 of the cost. It was a lot like ChiFi IEMs of nowadays. I bought both of the previously mentioned DAPs knowing that there were some issues with the software interface (I should have known better in hindsight).
> 
> ...


Ain’t that the truth. I am glad their more recent updates fixed the issues I had with the UTWS3. So there is hope in the future.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

tinyman392 said:


> Ain’t that the truth. I am glad their more recent updates fixed the issues I had with the UTWS3. So there is hope in the future.


Really tempted to get these for the Dunu, but i know the rabbit hole that puts me down.

I still need a break. And my Edifiers. And the Between Pro.


----------



## bronco1015

Caipirina said:


> What can the Sennheiser Momentum TW2 better than the Bose QC EarBuds or Jabra 85t?
> My hoarding heart has found a local source for the MTW2, bit crazy price wise, but what can I do, can't fly somewhere else for shopping
> I have the Bose and the Jabras and love them a LOT, but neither of them has AptX .. which got me to look around and I recall that when the MTW2s were fresh, there was a lot of positive talk here ...
> Now, I checked some YT reviews ... (remember Jimmy? That made me realize how long the MTW2 have already been on the market, when Jimmy still did reviews) ... and overall I am not super convinced ... the fit could be an issue, the sound could be too 'neutral' ... and I really am not a fan of touch vs click buttons .. but at least they can be remapped ..
> Now, why would you say I still should get the MTW2 in my stable? The ANC seems to be about the same (and really depenidng on fit) ..


i'd say don't pay more than $200 USD for the MTW2. The ANC is not as good as the QC Earbuds, 85T and AZ70 IMO, but I was wearing the MTW2 on the train the other day, been a while since i took public transit. the ANC blocks out the train noise pretty well.
Not as wide of a soundstage as on MTW1 if you ever had those, they don't have as much sparkle up top as the MTW1 did, but do respond well to 3rd party eq well. Touch controls aren't to sensitive IMO, transparency is serviceable, not class leading. You can use it with music playing, but when you switch to it from say ANC, the music pauses so you have to resume it...Rambling but back to first part of my post, for $200 USD or under, a solid purchase.


----------



## SemiAudiophile (May 1, 2021)

samandhi said:


> Good layering and imaging is a good sign of "guts". You have me more excited than ever to try the UTWS3. I am concerned about the connection and app issue though,  because while they DO make good hardware, Fiio has a track record with software.


The imaging is excellent with these and the Dusk. Very 3D, almost speaker like. Sounds coming from all directions. I enjoy acoustic on these a lot now. 🙂

The only other gripe I have is that the 2-pin on the left hook doesn't fit snugly enough with the Dusk's left ear piece. It sometimes falls off, say if I'm lying down and move my head. I had to re-attach it a couple times.

I wish manufacturers moving forward would just stick with MMCX universally. Having different types of 2-pin 0.75, 0.78, QDC just doesn't make sense and is a pain in the butt.


----------



## Caipirina

bronco1015 said:


> i'd say don't pay more than $200 USD for the MTW2. The ANC is not as good as the QC Earbuds, 85T and AZ70 IMO, but I was wearing the MTW2 on the train the other day, been a while since i took public transit. the ANC blocks out the train noise pretty well.
> Not as wide of a soundstage as on MTW1 if you ever had those, they don't have as much sparkle up top as the MTW1 did, but do respond well to 3rd party eq well. Touch controls aren't to sensitive IMO, transparency is serviceable, not class leading. You can use it with music playing, but when you switch to it from say ANC, the music pauses so you have to resume it...Rambling but back to first part of my post, for $200 USD or under, a solid purchase.


Thanks! That's very helpful! 
Looking for something I could possibly love more than the Bose / Jabras ... and the MTW2 do not sound like that at all ... 
No bargains to be had here, and neither the KEF nor the Pi7 would show up here anytime soon ... ah well .. learning to curb my enthusiasm ...


----------



## samandhi

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Maybe.
> 
> I mean it makes perfect sense in the loudspeaker realm because you have much bigger cabinets to fit those crossover networks into and amplification comes from an external source that's mains-powered. But here, everything is micro-sized.
> 
> ...


A lot of companies nowadays just don't care, but there are a few that seem to. Even those companies tend to do JUST enough to give the illusion that they really care. It is tragic that CS and engineering is at an all time low (greed being the ONLY thing that matters). 

However, in the case of Cambridge (at least for the MT) their actions really do show that they care (or are at least smart enough to see that they were killing their profits with broken devices from the factory). I am just glad to see that they didn't follow the model that I described about Fiio (and Samsung, and many others nowadays), and abandon the device altogether and make a "new and improved" model. 

With my experience with the MT (and even though they are not the "best" out there), I would buy another product from Cambridge. That, to me, is what makes a company great, and be able to stick around for a long time (like Sennheiser used to be). 



miserybeforethemusic said:


> Really tempted to get these for the Dunu, but i know the rabbit hole that puts me down.
> 
> I still need a break. And my Edifiers. And the Between Pro.


Oh c'mon, you have said that multiple times on here, and you know good and well you couldn't keep that promise if you tried... LOL I recognize it because I have the same addiction, though yours goes deeper than mine IMO. 

Just get them, and let us know how good or bad they are?! I'll bet there are a lot of people that value your opinion on this stuff anyhow (me included). 

In all seriousness though, did you ever get your P1s? I haven't heard good or bad from you about them. If you don't want to post your impressions on here, there IS a P1 thread (that I still monitor) here.


----------



## samandhi

SemiAudiophile said:


> The imaging is excellent with these and the Dusk. Very 3D, almost speaker like. Sounds coming from all directions.
> 
> The only other gripe I have is that the 2-pin on the left hook doesn't fit snugly enough with the Dusk's left ear piece. It sometimes falls off, say if I'm lying down and move my head. I had to re-attach it a couple times.
> 
> I wish manufacturers moving forward would just stick with MMCX universally. Having different types of 2-pin 0.75, 0.78, QDC just doesn't make sense and is a pain in the butt.


Or, at the very least, to make a standard for 2 pin. I can't actually speak from experience though because all the IEMs that I own (that have detachable cables) are all MMCX only.  

To me MMCX has always seemed better (logically speaking anyhow). Two pins jutting out just beg to get broken, whereas MMCX uses the entire diameter of the connection to strengthen it. Is it perfect? No, but it just seems better IMO. It is (in my mind) like using the USB-C connection to connect headphones (rectangular) instead of the tried and true 3.5mm (round) connector. Whoever thought that up must have gotten their engineering degree from the bottom of a cereal box...


----------



## 100Pipers

Bought the Marshall Mode II earbuds today, made for small ears, they are tiny.


----------



## samandhi

100Pipers said:


> Bought the Marshall Mode II earbuds today, made for small ears, they are tiny.


Please give us some impressions once you have used them for a bit?! I am interested to hear about those. Thanks kindly!


----------



## samandhi

Here are the specs for the Marshall Mode II (for those interested):



I noticed that the case also has an IP rating... Also the codecs used are missing. From the 4 different sources I read, they have AptX and SBC. For iPone(ers) AAC is missing.


----------



## C_Lindbergh

samandhi said:


> Here are the specs for the Marshall Mode II (for those interested):
> 
> I noticed that the case also has an IP rating... Also the codecs used are missing. From the 4 different sources I read, they have AptX and SBC. For iPone(ers) AAC is missing.



Imagine not stating which bluetooth coecs the device supports...

If Cambridge Audio has fixed most issues with the MT's then I just don't see these competing, the MT's are also cheaper. They're pretty much unbeatble at that price range, unless you really want ANC.


----------



## Adamastor

I started with QCY T2C then i wanted better sound quality and bought Blon BL-03. I love the Blon BL-03 sound and its a very good price to quality ratio.
Now im looking for some wireless IEMs that have at least the same sound quality as the Blon BL-03 and good mic. Any bargains?
Whats the equivalent to Blon BL-03 for wireless?
Thanks


----------



## SilverEars

Why no discussion on the new Moondrop Sparks?  It's sfarting out at reasonale pricepoint and measurement looks interesting.

https://crinacle.com/2021/04/19/moondrop-sparks-unboxing/


----------



## mainguy

SilverEars said:


> Why no discussion on the new Moondrop Sparks?  It's sfarting out at reasonale pricepoint and measurement looks interesting.
> 
> https://crinacle.com/2021/04/19/moondrop-sparks-unboxing/


Nice to see Crin has another Moondrop product to gush over.

They look interesting. With Sony XM3s frequently hitting 100ish in sales these days though might be a pretty tough sell.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

samandhi said:


> A lot of companies nowadays just don't care, but there are a few that seem to. Even those companies tend to do JUST enough to give the illusion that they really care. It is tragic that CS and engineering is at an all time low (greed being the ONLY thing that matters).
> 
> However, in the case of Cambridge (at least for the MT) their actions really do show that they care (or are at least smart enough to see that they were killing their profits with broken devices from the factory). I am just glad to see that they didn't follow the model that I described about Fiio (and Samsung, and many others nowadays), and abandon the device altogether and make a "new and improved" model.
> 
> ...


I did get the P1! I was so impatient I ordered a second from Apos while I was waiting on the first from Ali. I'm going to leave that one sealed until the right recipient rolls along.

Just didn't want to congest the thread with comments on it. Very unique sound signature that will take some time to really dig through.

Guess I'm getting UMTWS3 and adapters. Ugh you enabler.


----------



## samandhi

miserybeforethemusic said:


> I did get the P1! I was so impatient I ordered a second from Apos while I was waiting on the first from Ali. I'm going to leave that one sealed until the right recipient rolls along.
> 
> Just didn't want to congest the thread with comments on it. Very unique sound signature that will take some time to really dig through.
> 
> Guess I'm getting UMTWS3 and adapters. Ugh you enabler.


Haha Don't act like you aren't happy to be "enabled".... Looks like you will be waiting until July to get them (unless you have a fast track, that you can share )?

Take your time! I look forward to hearing your thoughts about them.

Edit: Since they are sealed, can't you just send them back?


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

samandhi said:


> Haha Don't act like you aren't happy to be "enabled".... Looks like you will be waiting until July to get them (unless you have a fast track, that you can share )?
> 
> Take your time! I look forward to hearing your thoughts about them.
> 
> Edit: Since they are sealed, can't you just send them back?


Those shipping times ended up doing me in. Just going to snag an iBasso CF01 from Bloom for the short term and one of those E1DA wired units for experimenting.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

samandhi said:


> Edit: Since they are sealed, can't you just send them back?


I thought about doing that, but just feel like I'd rather find the right person to "pay it forward" to when the time is right than return it.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

For those of you who have been waiting for (or might be looking for) tiny adapters to/from MMCX and 2-pin, I stumbled across this while reading the CF01 thread.

https://www.oeaudio.net/iem-adapter

No Amazon link, but they're there. Personal choice, but I'm trying to pay companies direct if I can. These seem like high-quality connectors at first glance and I'm hoping they end up low-profile enough to work with the CF01 and my 2-pin stuff here.


----------



## SemiAudiophile

miserybeforethemusic said:


> For those of you who have been waiting for (or might be looking for) tiny adapters to/from MMCX and 2-pin, I stumbled across this while reading the CF01 thread.
> 
> https://www.oeaudio.net/iem-adapter
> 
> No Amazon link, but they're there. Personal choice, but I'm trying to pay companies direct if I can. These seem like high-quality connectors at first glance and I'm hoping they end up low-profile enough to work with the CF01 and my 2-pin stuff here.


Those look like the same ones I ordered from Amazon. I think they have their own store there. I didn't get the L shaped ones though, just the regular ones. They work fine for me.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

SemiAudiophile said:


> Those look like the same ones I ordered from Amazon. I think they have their own store there. I didn't get the L shaped ones though, just the regular ones. They work fine for me.


They do. Like I said, it's a personal thing and I just wanted to make sure Amazon didn't skim their "share" off the top.


----------



## Dcell7

promoting your new product by trashing your previous model


----------



## C_Lindbergh (May 2, 2021)

miserybeforethemusic said:


> For those of you who have been waiting for (or might be looking for) tiny adapters to/from MMCX and 2-pin, I stumbled across this while reading the CF01 thread.
> 
> https://www.oeaudio.net/iem-adapter
> 
> No Amazon link, but they're there. Personal choice, but I'm trying to pay companies direct if I can. These seem like high-quality connectors at first glance and I'm hoping they end up low-profile enough to work with the CF01 and my 2-pin stuff here.


Cool!

Personally I think that TWS adapters are far from "there", both the case and adapters are still way to big compared to TWS, you also miss out of functions like Ambient mode/ANC atm.

I'm not an engineer, but I just don't get why these adapters have to be so big, I mean they can fit plenty of tech in a tiny true wireless, a tws adapter should be able to be even smaller since there's no drivers.

It would make more sense to buy a really expensive IEM and just update the True Wireless adapter from time to time, the adapters was on point.


----------



## mainguy

C_Lindbergh said:


> Cool!
> 
> Personally I think that TWS adapters are far from "there", both the case and adapters are still way to big compared to TWS, you also miss out of functions like Ambient mode/ANC atm.
> 
> ...


They don’t have to be that large, it’s just so they fit over the ear and remain anchored


----------



## C_Lindbergh

mainguy said:


> They don’t have to be that large, it’s just so they fit over the ear and remain anchored



Weird design choice then imo, If I can't fit the case easly in my pockets, then what's the point?


----------



## mainguy

C_Lindbergh said:


> Weird design choice then imo, If I can't fit the case easly in my pockets, then what's the point?


I mean there’s no other option, otherwise the bt reciever will be what, sticking out if the side of your ear? Most iems arent designed to even have a few grams of counterweight like that. Until the reciever/dac/battery is absolutely tiny there is no option


----------



## C_Lindbergh

mainguy said:


> I mean there’s no other option, otherwise the bt reciever will be what, sticking out if the side of your ear? Most iems arent designed to even have a few grams of counterweight like that. Until the reciever/dac/battery is absolutely tiny there is no option



I deffo undrstand that you need something to wrap around your ear, but the actual plastic piece with all the tech is still pretty huge.


----------



## W1ll1eTheP1mp

Which TWS buds has the best batterylife on the buds itself?


----------



## Caipirina

W1ll1eTheP1mp said:


> Which TWS buds has the best batterylife on the buds itself?


Top of my head I would say Powerbeats Pro with 9h ...


----------



## chinmie

W1ll1eTheP1mp said:


> Which TWS buds has the best batterylife on the buds itself?



i think for now the Soundpeats Sonic is the longest, with up to 15 hours per charge


----------



## Caipirina (May 2, 2021)

chinmie said:


> i think for now the Soundpeats Sonic is the longest, with up to 15 hours per charge


wow! That's long!

I wonder if anyone has really tested that ... not super trusting the specs ... like according to their own website, they have BT 5.0 AND BT 5.2    

https://www.soundpeatsaudio.com/en/true-wireless-earbuds-sonic.html


----------



## chinmie

Caipirina said:


> wow! That's long!
> 
> I wonder if anyone has really tested that ... not super trusting the specs ... like according to their own website, they have BT 5.0 AND BT 5.2
> 
> https://www.soundpeatsaudio.com/en/true-wireless-earbuds-sonic.html



most reviewer on youtube seems to confirm that it can at least reach 12 hours, that's still impressively longer than the Buds plus. i haven't purchase it myself though, too many TWS lying around at the moment


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

C_Lindbergh said:


> Cool!
> 
> Personally I think that TWS adapters are far from "there", both the case and adapters are still way to big compared to TWS, you also miss out of functions like Ambient mode/ANC atm.
> 
> ...


Totally a conscious choice. I'd like to use my IEMs more with my phone, but setting up the dongle, amps, and cables can be a bit cumbersome. Sometimes i just want to throw them on.

They don't have an insane battery life, but the consensus I was seeing from reviews was that the CF01 could drive some fairly current-hungry IEMs. If they can make the Dunu DK-3001 Pro shine, then mission accomplished.

I predict they might struggle a little bit with the P1, but it'll be an interesting test.

I've also heard mixed reports about case size, but lugging these around in my pocket isn't in the plans. I can live with a bigger case, especially if practically any IEM will fit inside while connected and have cushion on both sides so it's not flopping all over the place.

The silicon inside looked good, form factor appeared just about right for me, and cleg's most recent review kinda sealed the deal for me. It really did come down to SQ in the end. I have a bunch of other pairs that can handle all the bells and whistles





C_Lindbergh said:


> Weird design choice then imo, If I can't fit the case easly in my pockets, then what's the point?


Because some IEM shells are really large and I haven't seen one complaint of a fitment issue with the CF01 and those offenders. Seems like you can just leave everything connected. Case does Qi charging, too, which is a major plus.

These basically sit on a desk or in a bag when they're not in use. I'm ok with them being a bit big.


----------



## assassin10000

chinmie said:


> most reviewer on youtube seems to confirm that it can at least reach 12 hours, that's still impressively longer than the Buds plus. i haven't purchase it myself though, too many TWS lying around at the moment


I got 12 hours out of my buds+. I listen at lower volumes though.


miserybeforethemusic said:


> Totally a conscious choice. I'd like to use my IEMs more with my phone, but setting up the dongle, amps, and cables can be a bit cumbersome. Sometimes i just want to throw them on.
> 
> They don't have an insane battery life, but the consensus I was seeing from reviews was that the CF01 could drive some fairly current-hungry IEMs. If they can make the Dunu DK-3001 Pro shine, then mission accomplished.
> 
> ...



Just FYI, if getting the CF01 be aware of the approx. 20ohm output impedance. It may skew the SQ of your IEMs if they are low impedance and high sensitivity.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

assassin10000 said:


> I got 12 hours out of my buds+. I listen at lower volumes though.
> 
> Just FYI, if getting the CF01 be aware of the approx. 20ohm output impedance. It may skew the SQ of your IEMs if they are low impedance and high sensitivity.


I read through the CF01 thread and know what you're talking about. I think both sides need to calm down a bit, honestly. Some guys just get a little too wrapped up in the spec wars.
I understand the detrimental effect if the output on a fixed load might be 20 ohms, but music isn't necessarily a fixed load, so the output impedance has more variability than people give it credit for.
Appreciate the concern, though! I'll be sure to keep an eye out for any weird synergy issues.


----------



## SemiAudiophile (May 2, 2021)

miserybeforethemusic said:


> They don't have an insane battery life, but the consensus I was seeing from reviews was that the CF01 could drive some fairly current-hungry IEMs. If they can make the Dunu DK-3001 Pro shine, then mission accomplished.


BT20S pro and the EST 112 are an excellent pairing. Haven't tried the UTWS3 on them yet though.

How do you like the 3001's? The EST 112 checks all the right boxes for me. I find that the different tips change the overall signature a bit too. With the grey tips, the overall sound is a very mild V shape with great extension on both ends. More energy, dynamic, engaging sound. They have the treble extension and sparkle that I like and the bass hits low and tight with excellent definition. With white tips I find the overall sound to be more balanced/neutral. Sound is a bit more relaxed, laid back.  I also find the resolution to be even better.

These past couple days I've been falling in love over the Dusk all over again though. With the Dusk and the EST 112, I think I've hit the end of the road. I don't see any reason to go any higher and don't want to spend $$$$ on kilobuck IEMs. The only ones that do intrigue me are perhaps the S8 (which is supposedly the bigger brother to the Dusk), Luna, and U12t but that's it. I guess I could settle for baby U12t (SA6). 😄


----------



## bronco1015

W1ll1eTheP1mp said:


> Which TWS buds has the best batterylife on the buds itself?


The JLab Epic Air Sport ANC advertise 15 hours, I listen at medium volume but i managed 12 and change with them.
Still not to shabby. for the price one could do a lot worse. also they have wireless charging and the optional charging cord is built in to the case. As I was writing this reply, I thought i'd pull them out and see if they had any juice left, as they haven't been used at all for at least 2 months. The prompt said battery full when I powered them up, but i kept them out for a bit to see what reading the phone would show. Sure enough, 100%. pretty impressive.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

SemiAudiophile said:


> BT20S pro and the EST 112 are an excellent pairing. Haven't tried the UTWS3 on them yet though.
> 
> How do you like the 3001's? The EST 112 checks all the right boxes for me. I find that the different tips change the overall signature a bit too. With the grey tips, the overall sound is a very mild V shape with great extension on both ends. More energy, dynamic, engaging sound. They have the treble extension and sparkle that I like and the bass hits low and tight with excellent definition. With white tips I find the overall sound to be more balanced/neutral. Sound is a bit more relaxed, laid back.  I also find the resolution to be even better.
> 
> These past couple days I've been falling in love over the Dusk all over again though. With the Dusk and the EST 112, I think I've hit the end of the road. I don't see any reason to go any higher and don't want to spend $$$$ on kilobuck IEMs. The only ones that do intrigue me are perhaps the S8 (which is supposedly the bigger brother to the Dusk), Luna, and U12t but that's it. I guess I could settle for baby U12t (SA6). 😄


Oh the 3001 Pro is sublime, bud. Sound signature is very tip-dependent; more so than I've really seen before. Each IEM is honestly so small, I can barely believe there's a single DD and 4 BAs in each earpiece. It is the first pair I have ever had that I could legitimately sleep with. Could wax poetic about the cable, but you already know how that experience goes.

As far as sound signature, it just kinda plays it all and so smoothly. I know you have the electrostatic benefit in yours, but man these sparkle and never stab. FR is just...right for my preferences. They thankfully have fantastic technicalities to back them up. I totally get why people suggest going with the 2001 if you need more fun, but these play closer to my preferences.

If someone can do that much in a casing this small, it really makes me wonder what they're feeding the kids over at Dunu. TWS manufacturers should be paying attention to this.


----------



## tgx78 (May 2, 2021)

Tronsmart Apollo Bold (Left), Tronsmart Apollo Air (Middle), and Samsung Galaxy Buds Pro (Right)



*Tronsmart Apollo Air*

The Apollo Air has a strong bass thump that never becomes offensive, but still pumps strong enough to give music power. Next to the mid-bass slam, the bass sounds deep enough. One thing I noticed is when ANC is off, bass quantity reduces a bit making it sounds more balanced. The sub-bass has a decent rumble and lows are more powerful than a lot of other TWS I have tried. The two adjectives that best sum up the sound of Air are 'delicious' and 'exciting'. I have spent some days comparing it to a pair of Galaxy Pro's more neutral and polite presentation. While the comparison did reveal some limitations in the Apollo Air, most obviously in some lack of grip and micro dynamic tension in the neither regions, and in upper treble extension and drive in general, this very stern comparison also confirmed how good the Air was in nearly every other aspect of performance. I'm finding the Apollo Air with 10mm graphene coated DD such an exciting and down-right enjoyable experience, especially with classical and acoustic material. When playing _*Poème*_, Op. 25 by Hilary Hahn, for example, its sheer delicacy and sumptuous sweetness in timbre is both inviting and immensely involving, and its tonality (ANC off) has an essential rightness that's thoroughly convincing.

Tested on iphone (AAC) with the latest firmware.


----------



## jant71

miserybeforethemusic said:


> For those of you who have been waiting for (or might be looking for) tiny adapters to/from MMCX and 2-pin, I stumbled across this while reading the CF01 thread.
> 
> https://www.oeaudio.net/iem-adapter
> 
> No Amazon link, but they're there. Personal choice, but I'm trying to pay companies direct if I can. These seem like high-quality connectors at first glance and I'm hoping they end up low-profile enough to work with the CF01 and my 2-pin stuff here.


Though they have known to start cutting out from a few reports. I bought a set cause I don't even put that many hours on stuff lately but still the right one started to cut out. I can fiddle to get it working again but it will keep doing it every so often. I'd expect the same. Though I do have two-pin to MMCX so per chance that may make a difference or it may not.

I read I guess speculation that there would be a CF02. Any actual info on if that is true? They seem the best design. I might like them to adopt the swappable connectors and ambient mode though that seems to be to hard for the Chinese companies. Even Shanling tried ambient with the first model and dropped it with the new one. It might be hard but you usually pay for chip maker to help out and I guess they don't want to pay the costs to get the implementation assist and perhaps the language barrier hurts too but Chi-Fi don't seem to do ambient.

 I have a DUNU Zen that is very true sounding and gets along with whatever you plug into it and is easy to power and is MMCX but not sure about a CF01 unless there is a deal on them.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic (May 2, 2021)

jant71 said:


> Though they have known to start cutting out from a few reports. I bought a set cause I don't even put that many hours on stuff lately but still the right one started to cut out. I can fiddle to get it working again but it will keep doing it every so often. I'd expect the same. Though I do have two-pin to MMCX so per chance that may make a difference or it may not.
> 
> I read I guess speculation that there would be a CF02. Any actual info on if that is true? They seem the best design. I might like them to adopt the swappable connectors and ambient mode though that seems to be to hard for the Chinese companies. Even Shanling tried ambient with the first model and dropped it with the new one. It might be hard but you usually pay for chip maker to help out and I guess they don't want to pay the costs to get the implementation assist and perhaps the language barrier hurts too but Chi-Fi don't seem to do ambient.
> 
> I have a DUNU Zen that is very true sounding and gets along with whatever you plug into it and is easy to power and is MMCX but not sure about a CF01 unless there is a deal on them.


Saw some of those cutting-out reports as well. I can make the Falcon Pro cry for signal in an open field with the thing in my back pocket, so I won't be too worried until issues start popping up within line-of-sight.

I mean Bloom has an Open Box CF01, but I don't know if the markdown is enough to warrant it. Would definitely trust Andrew to take care of any issues, though.

If a CF02 is in the works, that's news to me. I'd be really excited to know more about it since I think iBasso has been making pretty consistent progress with its hardware. HiBy too, to an extent.

I'll give feedback on how I think the CF01 work with some other single-DD arrangements I have around here to hopefully give you a rough idea of what to expect from the Zen. Have the T2 Pro and Kanas Pro; both should be able to make the CF01 beg in different ways.


----------



## michsu

PI7
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/bowers-wilkins-pi7.952402/


----------



## SemiAudiophile

jant71 said:


> Though they have known to start cutting out from a few reports. I bought a set cause I don't even put that many hours on stuff lately but still the right one started to cut out. I can fiddle to get it working again but it will keep doing it every so often. I'd expect the same. Though I do have two-pin to MMCX so per chance that may make a difference or it may not.


I just notice the cut outs with the 2-pin to MMCX adapter. The UTWS3 does not play well with these adapters. The BT20S pro worked ok with these because the hooks are more flexible but the UTWS3 hooks are stiffer and any slight movement it would cut out.

Also, the adapters make the fitment around the ear feel awkward  and loose and will tend to slip off a lot easier than without them. If you are standing or sitting upright it might be ok, but not lying down.


----------



## Luke Skywalker

michsu said:


> Thank you for that long reply. Currently I’m just using a Periodic Audio Beryllium on a RHA Dacamp L1. Haha, nothing fancy like you guys. I’m just looking for a wireless pair of earbuds that can take calls, has good enough ANC, and has awesome sound quality (similar to or better than what I had). I’m looking at Bose quietcomfort, MW08, and PI7. I’m not sure if there are any more good ones? Sony and Jabra 85 don’t seem too good in the reviews.
> 
> For music, I do a bit of these.. rock, pop, kpop, acoustic, voices. I like things with clarity, imaging and a bigger soundstage. Sorry, I may not be using the right terms. Regarding using things like Tidal or Qobuz in hifi,  will any earbuds mentioned be better than what Apple Music offers? I think they only give 320 kbps, while the others can go higher? When I do get better earbuds, I might switch over to Tidal or Qobuz if the sound quality really has a big difference.
> 
> ...


I'd go with the KEF mu3's.  I use both Tidal and Qobuz depending on what I plan on listening to.  Qobuz is especially great for classical and opera if you're into that sort of thing.


----------



## michsu

Luke Skywalker said:


> I'd go with the KEF mu3's.  I use both Tidal and Qobuz depending on what I plan on listening to.  Qobuz is especially great for classical and opera if you're into that sort of thing.


Ok, I’ll take a look at that. Thank you.


----------



## clerkpalmer

Reports this morning that Apple is going to launch a hifi music tier. Could be a game changer for iOS. I wonder if they will upgrade AAC - otherwise what purpose would it serve?


----------



## tinyman392

clerkpalmer said:


> Reports this morning that Apple is going to launch a hifi music tier. Could be a game changer for iOS. I wonder if they will upgrade AAC - otherwise what purpose would it serve?


We'll have to see what this entails.  A lot of speculation regarding it working with their AirPods headphones (hence the AirPods announcement delays).


----------



## clerkpalmer

tinyman392 said:


> We'll have to see what this entails.  A lot of speculation regarding it working with their AirPods headphones (hence the AirPods announcement delays).


Let’s hope Apple doesn’t make it closed for Apple products only.


----------



## mainguy

clerkpalmer said:


> Let’s hope Apple doesn’t make it closed for Apple products only.


no chance theyd do that


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

mainguy said:


> no chance theyd do that


I'm sure it wouldn't require their A1 chipset to work, right? Best way to leave as many legacy users in the dust as possible 

Ok on a more serious note, the CF01 shipped this morning. Put the Tin P1 back on the break-in bench so it's plenty ready for the CF01 when it arrives. Enduring death by powerpoint (company training) with the 85t this morning. For all the flak I give this thing on its sound signature, it's at least fatigue-free when you have to hear people talk all day. The vented enclosure definitely helps. Having HearThrough on at the lowest setting also helps.


----------



## clerkpalmer

mainguy said:


> no chance theyd do that


Not much I’d put past Apple these days. That said it’s probably going to require new hardware unless this has been baked in for a while.


----------



## tinyman392

clerkpalmer said:


> Let’s hope Apple doesn’t make it closed for Apple products only.


Apple's current codec for lossless is ALAC which is more or less Apple only.  Rumors also point to it being linked to Apple Music though, which means you'd need iTunes or the Apple Music app to use it anyways; though that is cross platform already with the exception of Linux (iTunes for Windows, Music for MacOS, Music for iOS, and Apple Music for Android).


----------



## clerkpalmer

tinyman392 said:


> Apple's current codec for lossless is ALAC which is more or less Apple only.  Rumors also point to it being linked to Apple Music though, which means you'd need iTunes or the Apple Music app to use it anyways; though that is cross platform already with the exception of Linux (iTunes for Windows, Music for MacOS, Music for iOS, and Apple Music for Android).


Totally assume Apple Music will be required. But the million dollar question will be what hardware requirements are there. Apple doesn’t believe in wired audio so they are certain to have a way to get hi res via Bluetooth. Surprised this didn’t happen with the release APM.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

clerkpalmer said:


> Totally assume Apple Music will be required. But the million dollar question will be what hardware requirements are there. Apple doesn’t believe in wired audio so they are certain to have a way to get hi res via Bluetooth. Surprised this didn’t happen with the release APM.


I'm sure every developer that has a hardware component to their company is trying to "fix" what Sonos managed to figure out years ago. Wouldn't surprise me in the least if it was either a new codec or straight AIFF transmitted over AirDrop.

Just got done chatting with WorldWideStereo. I've had trips to shipyard medical that were friendlier, if we're being perfectly honest. I said please more than my representative did. I asked for an exchange and, had I not asked about cross-shipping (which they were clueless about in the first place), would have been sending my product back only to receive a refund, at the _sale_ price, and been left completely out of luck.

Not the best experience. Still waiting on my return label, too. Fwiw, they didn't even acknowledge a systemic issue with this product, but I made sure to tell them. Doubt it'll be effectively communicated, but I did my part.


----------



## samandhi (May 3, 2021)

tinyman392 said:


> Apple's current codec for lossless is ALAC which is more or less Apple only.  Rumors also point to it being linked to Apple Music though, which means you'd need iTunes or the Apple Music app to use it anyways; though that is cross platform already with the exception of Linux (iTunes for Windows, Music for MacOS, Music for iOS, and Apple Music for Android).


It used to be Apple only. Since late 2011 it has been open source and royalty free. For instance Mediamonkey Player has a plugin that allows you to rip, convert, and play ALAC... As for just playing it, Windows 10 included this codec in the system in 2015 and therefore can be played natively. I would bet that Apple either uses a new codec, or they will take ALAC (or ALE) and add a DRM component to it because it is just an .mp4 file in a container (basically). I could be totally wrong because I have never really been in the Apple eco-system, but it has always seemed that they like to go out of their way to make things as proprietary as they can.

But, you are right insomuch as Apple is pretty much the only one that uses ALAC.

Edit: Just like, did you know that Windows has its own lossless codec? WMA..... But NOBODY uses it (that I am aware of)... heh


----------



## dweaver (May 3, 2021)

pretty sure WMA was Microsoft's lossy format to compete with MP3 back in the day. I used to use it back when I had a CD player that played MP3 and WMA files LOL. I believe I may have also used it with my first hard drive based music player. I remember going through 2 or 3 portable CD players back in the day... I know I know, I'm dating myself...


----------



## samandhi

dweaver said:


> pretty sure WMA was Microsofts lossy format to comete with MP3 back in the day. I used to use it back when I had a CD player that played MP# and WMA files LOL. I believe I may have also used it with my first hard drive based music player. I remember going through 2 or 3 portable CD players back in the day... I know I know, I'm dating myself...


Your right. I left out the word lossless... There was WMA, WMA+, and WMA lossless... I tried WMA back in the day also. I had what was considered the first hard drive media player (still have it to this day), which was the RCA Lyra Jukebox. It was a 20gb hard drive (HUGE for its time), and supported mp3PRO (another failed codec)....


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

dweaver said:


> pretty sure WMA was Microsofts lossy format to comete with MP3 back in the day. I used to use it back when I had a CD player that played MP# and WMA files LOL. I believe I may have also used it with my first hard drive based music player. I remember going through 2 or 3 portable CD players back in the day... I know I know, I'm dating myself...


WMA's a textbook case of Microsoft being horrible at advertising/product education. Without going on too much of a tangent, I vaguely remember WMA getting a huge overhaul, but it was too little too late. Besides, FLAC is open source. MP3 is open source. Really zero reason at this point to run protected formats unless they're the only way you can get that particular file. My Aiwa portable CD player could do WMA and MP3 as well. I know where you're going with that. Thank goodness we don't have the same space limitation issues we did back then.

Put the MTs in today for some music during lunchtime. Still love those things. Realized I cleared my desk and only the following guys aren't in a drawer at the moment:

JBL Club Pro+ (on the Qi charger)
HiBy WH3
Noble Falcon Pro
Jabra 85t
Melomania Touch
Technics AZ70W (on the bench for RMA)
No rankings; that's just what I seem to be rotating through at the moment. I won't say the WH3 smash anything
Also have the Tin P1 breaking in on the desktop amp, just running through tracks in my Roon library. Every now and then, I'll pick them up and put them in for a listen. Good Lord, do those things open up with the right source! If the P1 somehow magically matches up with the CF01, that's going to be a real treat (both are allegedly 20 ohms nominal).

I literally have no other in-ear that can compete for midrange resolution and fast transients. Have serious doubts that can be translated over wirelessly, but I'm going to try anyway. A serious thanks to @samandhi for the recommendation.


----------



## samandhi

miserybeforethemusic said:


> WMA's a textbook case of Microsoft being horrible at advertising/product education. Without going on too much of a tangent, I vaguely remember WMA getting a huge overhaul, but it was too little too late. Besides, FLAC is open source. MP3 is open source. Really zero reason at this point to run protected formats unless they're the only way you can get that particular file. My Aiwa portable CD player could do WMA and MP3 as well. I know where you're going with that. Thank goodness we don't have the same space limitation issues we did back then.
> 
> Put the MTs in today for some music during lunchtime. Still love those things. Realized I cleared my desk and only the following guys aren't in a drawer at the moment:
> 
> ...


Pretty much all my TWS are in rotation (N6P, TWS600, Bose Soundsport Free, and MT), but since the latest FW update the MT are getting much more playtime... I used them all day at work today, and enjoyed them immensely.... Kudos to Cambridge for sticking with them!

@tinyman392 got me thinking the same but with the UTWS3 for the P1, and finding the right synergy for these could be a journey in itself, but I will find it eventually..  If the CF01 synergize well, let us know, I might jump on that bandwagon. I really don't have much to lose because if they don't, I am sure they will with the T800 (unless they make them too hot in the treble area). 

Though, DO remember that the P1 ARE ChiFi, and as such, I am not convinced that the MMCX connectors on them are super stout. When I find the right combo, I might even buy a second pair so that I don't have to switch cables often and have a chance of them breaking.


----------



## new2mus

W1ll1eTheP1mp said:


> Which TWS buds has the best batterylife on the buds itself?


My cheap, waterproof workout buds : Enacfire 8+ hours of listening time but case adds 200+ hours and can be used as a powerbank
My work/VC: Buds+ have lasted me 9+ hours with 4-5 hours video conference calls + YT video watching for the remaining 4-5 hours (12+ hours for me when just listening to music)


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

samandhi said:


> Pretty much all my TWS are in rotation (N6P, TWS600, Bose Soundsport Free, and MT), but since the latest FW update the MT are getting much more playtime... I used them all day at work today, and enjoyed them immensely.... Kudos to Cambridge for sticking with them!
> 
> @tinyman392 got me thinking the same but with the UTWS3 for the P1, and finding the right synergy for these could be a journey in itself, but I will find it eventually..  If the CF01 synergize well, let us know, I might jump on that bandwagon. I really don't have much to lose because if they don't, I am sure they will with the T800 (unless they make them too hot in the treble area).
> 
> Though, DO remember that the P1 ARE ChiFi, and as such, I am not convinced that the MMCX connectors on them are super stout. When I find the right combo, I might even buy a second pair so that I don't have to switch cables often and have a chance of them breaking.


Haven't learned the MMCX trick yet?


Stop yanking on those connectors. Put a fingernail in between the plug and connector end on the IEM. Rotate your fingernail around the connector and they'll just pop off.


----------



## new2mus

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Haven't learned the MMCX trick yet?
> 
> Stop yanking on those connectors. Put a fingernail in between the plug and connector end on the IEM. Rotate your fingernail around the connector and they'll just pop off.


I knew there was a reason for me to stop biting my nails


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

new2mus said:


> I knew there was a reason for me to stop biting my nails


Helping break bad habits, one trick at a time


----------



## samandhi

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Haven't learned the MMCX trick yet?
> 
> Stop yanking on those connectors. Put a fingernail in between the plug and connector end on the IEM. Rotate your fingernail around the connector and they'll just pop off.


Guess I never thought of doing it that way, plus the fact that I don't have much in the finger-nail department. Although, the way I have been doing it seems to be less destructive than just yanking at them. 

I put fore-finger and thumb on either side. I pinch while lifting my fingers up (not pulling) at the same time, and they do come apart fairly easily. I do like your idea though! It seems as though with this method there should be very little wear and tear. 



new2mus said:


> I knew there was a reason for me to stop biting my nails





miserybeforethemusic said:


> Helping break bad habits, one trick at a time


LOL + LOL!


----------



## SemiAudiophile (May 3, 2021)

samandhi said:


> Pretty much all my TWS are in rotation (N6P, TWS600, Bose Soundsport Free, and MT), but since the latest FW update the MT are getting much more playtime... I used them all day at work today, and enjoyed them immensely.... Kudos to Cambridge for sticking with them!
> 
> @tinyman392 got me thinking the same but with the UTWS3 for the P1, and finding the right synergy for these could be a journey in itself, but I will find it eventually..  If the CF01 synergize well, let us know, I might jump on that bandwagon. I really don't have much to lose because if they don't, I am sure they will with the T800 (unless they make them too hot in the treble area).
> 
> Though, DO remember that the P1 ARE ChiFi, and as such, I am not convinced that the MMCX connectors on them are super stout. When I find the right combo, I might even buy a second pair so that I don't have to switch cables often and have a chance of them breaking.


You guys got me revisting the P1's again. I actually tried them with the UTWS3 briefly yesterday while doing laundry. The UTWS3 drives them to plenty loud enough levels. As far as synergy, I wouldn't call them a great match but it does drive them pretty decently. Keep in mind this was pretty brief and I was using the adapters in a noisy environment.

Listening to them again today this time out of the Hip DAC and the Tripowin C8 balanced cable. And I got to say I enjoy this pairing quite a lot. Brings me back to the special qualities that I like so much about the P1 like their intimate mids, detail, and airiness. I think the C8 cable helps the P1 "breathe" a little better and adds a bit of warmth. I didnt find them lean sounding or felt the need to add bass boost.

I think the P1's have a emotional, musical quality to them which is very enjoyable. Which is what makes them special to my ears. Other IEMs can be super technical but lack musicality. With the P1 I just enjoy listening to music with their laid back nature.

Both the P1 and EST 112 are excellent at treble extension and detail. I can't really say which one is better without a direct A/B comparison.


----------



## CocaCola15 (May 3, 2021)

Know what feels good? Giving away the Tranya B530s, giving away the Melomania 1 (both to good friends) and selling the Earfun Free Pro (tuned by Oluv). Just have to give away an ancient pair of QCY T1.

I’m a piker by HF TW standards: settled on the CA M1+, CA MT and the Status Between Pro. I have owned several name brands and returned them all. Always something bothered me, either sound or form factor, or both. Owning aging ears has its upside (and keeps spending down). Have Bye Bye Blackbird (Ray Brown, John Clayton and Christian MCBride doing the honors, the SuperBass album) playing and the Between Pro is sounding anazing. No EQ. I’ve only seen one other HF member who has them and he raved about them. They could be sleepers. I hope some others hear them soon. Using LG V30 (best Ebay buy ever) and Amazon Music HD to deliver the music.

I do listen to the Qudelix F5 with the Blon-03 and Ety ER4XR, but that doesn’t count as TW.


----------



## michsu

I checked the status between Pro and it won’t ship until June? How did you get it so fast?

https://www.status.co/products/betweenpro


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

SemiAudiophile said:


> You guys got me revisting the P1's again. I actually tried them with the UTWS3 briefly yesterday while doing laundry. The UTWS3 drives them to plenty loud enough levels. As far as synergy, I wouldn't call them a great match but it does drive them pretty decently. Keep in mind this was pretty brief and I was using the adapters in a noisy environment.
> 
> Listening to them again today this time out of the Hip DAC and the Tripowin C8 balanced cable. And I got to say I enjoy this pairing quite a lot. Brings me back to the special qualities that I like so much about the P1 like their intimate mids, detail, and airiness. I think the C8 cable helps the P1 "breathe" a little better and adds a bit of warmth. I didnt find them lean sounding or felt the need to add bass boost.


Those things are an insane value; shame they seem to be so picky with the source. There's so much electrical theory involved in explaining why, though, that I really try to avoid unless everybody else is willing to come along for the tangent.

Avoiding the whole "synergy" problem is, in my opinion, _the_ value-add to TWS. We could probably dig into the minutae and say Phone A sounds better out of the BT than Phone B on a particular set of TWS, but sound quality for that given device should be the same across the board. Way less variability as a result.

Always fun to see the tradeoffs when it comes to tech.


CocaCola15 said:


> Know what feels good? Giving away the Tranya B530s, giving away the Melomania 1 (both to good friends) and selling the Earfun Free Pro (tuned by Oluv). Just have to give away an ancient pair of QCY T1.
> 
> I’m a piker by HF TW standards: settled on the CA M1+, CA MT and the Status Between Pro. I have owned several name brands and returned them all. Always something bothered me, either sound or form factor, or both. Owning aging ears has its upside (and keeps spending down). Have Bye Bye Blackbird (Ray Brown, John Clayton and Christian MCBride doing the honors, the SuperBass album) playing and the Between Pro is sounding anazing. No EQ. I’ve only seen one other HF member who has them and he raved about them. They could be sleepers. I hope some others hear them soon. Using LG V30 (best Ebay buy ever) and Amazon Music HD to deliver the music.
> 
> I do listen to the Qudelix F5 with the Blon-03 and Ety ER4XR, but that doesn’t count as TW.


Enjoying a hi-res copy of Alt-J's _An Awesome Wave_ on the MT at the moment. Such a well-recorded album and one of the few modern bands that sounds almost identical live as they do in the studio. It's really something and the MT give it a special character all on their own.

Have you considered getting the Etymotion cable for those ER4XR? It's a great pairing and you get aptX HD with it. The neckband looks a little funky, but I promise they're more...ergonomic...than the IEMs themselves. The Qudelix will probably whomp it for power, but this shortens the wire just a little bit more. Plenty sturdy, too. I can clip the battery/transmitter to my shirt collar and practically forget it's there after a few minutes.

EFPs are out on "loan" to a local friend of a friend. He's about to go abuse them in the gym. I haven't given him any primers, so we'll see what he says after he's done. He's just beginning that whole quest for sound, though, so I figured the EFP were a good launching point.


michsu said:


> I checked the status between Pro and it won’t ship until June? How did you get it so fast?
> 
> https://www.status.co/products/betweenpro


He got lucky. I ordered back in March and haven't received mine yet. Their shipping plan is just...strange. That's probably the nicest way I can put it.


----------



## michsu (May 3, 2021)

For the price of the PI7, I can get both wireless and wired with their coupon. How is it possible they are so cheap? They use the Qualcomm 3040 chip (maybe they are producing a new version from the one he got?). Is the Qualcomm 3040 and the 5126 (like in the PI7) chips a big difference? These last 11 hours while the PI7 can barely get 4. I’m thinking sacrifice a bit of quality for much longer battery life?


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

michsu said:


> For the price of the PI7, I can get both wireless and wired with their coupon. How is it possible they are so cheap? They use the Qualcomm 3040 chip (maybe they are producing a new version from the one he got?). Is the Qualcomm 3040 and the 5000 chips a big difference? These last 11 hours while the PI7 can barely get 4. I’m thinking sacrifice a bit of quality for much longer battery life?


Based on what I've picked up on so far, I think B&W completely flubbed power management on the PI7. My guess is they didn't account for what sort of real-world load twin amps in each ear was going to be on the battery and couldn't improve it before release. As for the new chips, no idea. I wouldn't put too much stock in the silicon making that much of a difference.


----------



## samandhi

michsu said:


> For the price of the PI7, I can get both wireless and wired with their coupon. How is it possible they are so cheap? They use the Qualcomm 3040 chip (maybe they are producing a new version from the one he got?). Is the Qualcomm 3040 and the 5126 (like in the PI7) chips a big difference? These last 11 hours while the PI7 can barely get 4. I’m thinking sacrifice a bit of quality for much longer battery life?


I have yet to find a ton of information detailing the complete differences (other than that the 5xxx series is claimed to use 65% less energy than previous chips), but basically the 3040 chip was designed to be for entry level buds, while the 5xxx series is for top tier buds.


----------



## michsu (May 3, 2021)

Thank you guys. Yes, I saw that difference too for entry level (3040) vs premium (5100), but if the difference in battery life is that much (I saw many new 3040 offering big battery life.. like that Lypertek? (sorry for spelling), this one, and a few others). It seems anything with the new Bluetooth 5.2 3040 or similar may be worth it. I saw another one on Kickstarter just now too.

https://www.kickstarter.com/project...tive-noise-cancelling-100-hr-wireless-earbuds

I’ve been burned by Kickstarter and indiegogo so I’m wary of their specs and story. 12mm drivers and 10 hour battery life.


----------



## pkcpga

jant71 said:


> The B&W has two amps, one for each of the drivers so there goes your battery. Lypertek needs to show they have done a good job on pushing 3 drivers or do they not perform as well as they could in favor of better battery life. In about another month we will see how they did.


Noble Falcon Pro’s push three drivers very well with 10 hours battery life at 70% volume.  Mine typically last 8 1/2 hours before recharging due to low battery warning.


----------



## michsu

pkcpga said:


> Noble Falcon Pro’s push three drivers very well with 10 hours battery life at 70% volume.  Mine typically last 8 1/2 hours before recharging due to low battery warning.


How is the microphone and call quality? Thanks.


----------



## samandhi

michsu said:


> Thank you guys. Yes, I saw that difference too for entry level (3040) vs premium (5100), but if the difference in battery life is that much (I saw many new 3040 offering big battery life.. like that Lypertek? (sorry for spelling), this one, and a few others). It seems anything with the new Bluetooth 5.2 3040 or similar may be worth it. I saw another one on Kickstarter just now too.
> 
> https://www.kickstarter.com/project...tive-noise-cancelling-100-hr-wireless-earbuds
> 
> I’ve been burned by Kickstarter and indiegogo so I’m wary of their specs and story. 12mm drivers and 10 hour battery life.


I saw that one, but like you, I am wary about kickstarter TWS. Hell, even after release there are lots of major issues on lots of the TWS out there. Plus, I am NOT a fan of stems at all..


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

pkcpga said:


> Noble Falcon Pro’s push three drivers very well with 10 hours battery life at 70% volume.  Mine typically last 8 1/2 hours before recharging due to low battery warning.


Ditto. I'm out of steam before these buds are, usually. That or the wife's yelling at me to take them out.

Why _is_ she awake at 3am?


----------



## pkcpga

potix said:


> Probably the same reasons why active crossovers are used for loudspeakers, they have some benefits especially in digital domain. Better dynamics, efficiency, less phase errors etc... Are PI7 the first tws using this design?


The Noble Falcon Pro has active crossovers with system on chip integrated circuitry to save power, space and weight.  The PI7 are the first bi amped and I guess that’s an inefficient design.
Just received my PI7’s today so not ready to state how they fully compare.  My biggest complaint so far is drop outs while walking around and terrible app with no EQ.  Along with an OK tuning, would love to EQ them a bit but not something I can do directly and if I EQ on my device I have to remember to change it back with each headphone.  Also really poor battery life, first charge lasted 3 1/2 hours verse the Noble Falcon Pro with 3 hybrid drivers lasting 8 1/2 hours.  Sound quality is similar to the Noble Falcon Pro’s, both have different strengths in sound quality.  I like the B&W highs, but prefer the faster Noble lows and better timing.  B &W gets a little bloat with lows and slows the timing while the highs keep great pace with great detail.  Seems to be an issue with many TWS’s, both have great mids.  B&W has a better EQ out of the box, but has no option to adjust to preference as I’d like to tune the mid bass down a few dbs.  The Noble has a ten way EQ in their app so I can adjust to my liking.  Too early to decide if I’m keeping the PI7 but battery life is really poor, no app EQ and drop outs are not looking good, sound quality is it’s only plus.


----------



## CocaCola15

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Those things are an insane value; shame they seem to be so picky with the source. There's so much electrical theory involved in explaining why, though, that I really try to avoid unless everybody else is willing to come along for the tangent.
> 
> Avoiding the whole "synergy" problem is, in my opinion, _the_ value-add to TWS. We could probably dig into the minutae and say Phone A sounds better out of the BT than Phone B on a particular set of TWS, but sound quality for that given device should be the same across the board. Way less variability as a result.
> 
> ...


I saw the Etymotion


miserybeforethemusic said:


> Those things are an insane value; shame they seem to be so picky with the source. There's so much electrical theory involved in explaining why, though, that I really try to avoid unless everybody else is willing to come along for the tangent.
> 
> Avoiding the whole "synergy" problem is, in my opinion, _the_ value-add to TWS. We could probably dig into the minutae and say Phone A sounds better out of the BT than Phone B on a particular set of TWS, but sound quality for that given device should be the same across the board. Way less variability as a result.
> 
> ...


Considered the Etymotion, but too much scratch. The Etys are great with either the F5 or ES100.
I ordered the Between Pro right when they went on sale on Indiegogo, based on my curiosity and experience with Status, specifically their BT-1 on ear phones, which I really like, esp at $50 on a sale. I got the Between Pro for $79. Have another on order for a HFer in Canada, at the $99 Indiegogo price.


----------



## pkcpga

michsu said:


> How is the microphone and call quality? Thanks.


It’s ok, my wife’s Sennheiser is a little better, no echo, but the microphone can make me or my wife as she tested with me sound a little thin or less natural but still very clear to understand.


----------



## michsu (May 3, 2021)

With the PI7 only at 3.5 hours, you would probably need to recharge twice a day and that’s terrible. That’s not even before the battery degrading too over time.

Noble and Status between are the recommended ones with some “real” battery life.


----------



## CocaCola15 (May 3, 2021)

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Those things are an insane value; shame they seem to be so picky with the source. There's so much electrical theory involved in explaining why, though, that I really try to avoid unless everybody else is willing to come along for the tangent.
> 
> Avoiding the whole "synergy" problem is, in my opinion, _the_ value-add to TWS. We could probably dig into the minutae and say Phone A sounds better out of the BT than Phone B on a particular set of TWS, but sound quality for that given device should be the same across the board. Way less variability as a result.
> 
> ...


And thanks for An Awesome Wave. switched to the MTs. Very Nice. Switched back to the Between Pro. No contest. The detail, soundstage and separation on the BPs is a revelation. No app, no EQ. Damn. I am starting to doubt my ears! But what I hear is all the data I have. This is the ultra HD edition on Amazon HD, my only streaming service.

Guess the triple driver configuration is really what it’s all about with the BPs. I’ve not experienced the BP soundstage and detail on any other TW in-ears I’ve heard. Senn, Sony, Jabra, Nuarl and others.

Small thing, but I find myself adjusting the MTs a lot, right ear mainly. Of course that means accidentally pausing them. Frustrating. I like the sound but the BPs are just more to my, uh, idea of a great phone, not just a great TW phone. Of course, when more HFers hear them, I’ll be labeled hard of hearing, haha. But I hope not. An Awesome Wave is a showcase for the BPs.
The $79 I paid is an automatic disqualifer of sorts, when the talk here focuses mainly on TOTL TW gear.


----------



## michsu

CocaCola15 said:


> And thanks for An Awesome Wave. switched to the MTs. Very Nice. Switched back to the Between Pro. No contest. The detail, soundstage and separation on the BPs is a revelation. No EQ. IMHO. Damn.


Who? What? Where? Haha, can you elaborate on those acronyms (except for the EQ, of course)? Thanks. 😊 
What’s MT and BP? Is the Between Pro better?


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

CocaCola15 said:


> And thanks for An Awesome Wave. switched to the MTs. Very Nice. Switched back to the Between Pro. No contest. The detail, soundstage and separation on the BPs is a revelation. No app, no EQ. Damn. I am starting to doubt my ears! But what I hear is all the data I have. This is the ultra HD edition on Amazon HD, my only streaming service.


Nice! I know there's some weird stuff going on with the Alt-J masters. I can stream Hi-Res samples from Qobuz, but had to buy the album to get the full songs. First time I've seen that happen. Anywho, that album is a great example of just what a difference good mastering can make on a recording. Have it on vinyl as well and feels like a different album dynamically. Pretty cool.

Getting me excited for the BP!


michsu said:


> Who? What? Where? Haha, can you elaborate on those acronyms (except for the EQ, of course)? Thanks. 😊
> What’s MT and BP? Is the Between Pro better?


MT = Cambridge Melomania Touch
BP = Status Between Pro

Not so much a one being better than the other thing. The BP are technically cheaper than the MT, even during sales. Just two totally different sound signatures.


----------



## CocaCola15 (May 3, 2021)

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Nice! I know there's some weird stuff going on with the Alt-J masters. I can stream Hi-Res samples from Qobuz, but had to buy the album to get the full songs. First time I've seen that happen. Anywho, that album is a great example of just what a difference good mastering can make on a recording. Have it on vinyl as well and feels like a different album dynamically. Pretty cool.
> 
> Getting me excited for the BP!
> 
> ...


What he said. But I believe the Between Pro MSRP is $149 (cut from $169 for presale). The MTs dropped to $129 from $149. At least that’s what I paid on Amazon. Not talking Indiegogo price, but Staus website price. So they are pretty much the same price retail.


----------



## michsu (May 3, 2021)

You can get a 10% off with their coupon code WELCOME10 for the status between. I signed up for their email. Does it do one earpiece (not like Bose but like Airpods) where it can do everything? Thanks.


----------



## tinyman392

samandhi said:


> Pretty much all my TWS are in rotation (N6P, TWS600, Bose Soundsport Free, and MT), but since the latest FW update the MT are getting much more playtime... I used them all day at work today, and enjoyed them immensely.... Kudos to Cambridge for sticking with them!
> 
> @tinyman392 got me thinking the same but with the UTWS3 for the P1, and finding the right synergy for these could be a journey in itself, but I will find it eventually..  If the CF01 synergize well, let us know, I might jump on that bandwagon. I really don't have much to lose because if they don't, I am sure they will with the T800 (unless they make them too hot in the treble area).
> 
> Though, DO remember that the P1 ARE ChiFi, and as such, I am not convinced that the MMCX connectors on them are super stout. When I find the right combo, I might even buy a second pair so that I don't have to switch cables often and have a chance of them breaking.


I found the TRN BT20S to sound better with the P1. But it is less powerful than the UTWS3.


----------



## alsorkin

pkcpga said:


> The Noble Falcon Pro has active crossovers with system on chip integrated circuitry to save power, space and weight.  The PI7 are the first bi amped and I guess that’s an inefficient design.
> Just received my PI7’s today so not ready to state how they fully compare.  My biggest complaint so far is drop outs while walking around and terrible app with no EQ.  Along with an OK tuning, would love to EQ them a bit but not something I can do directly and if I EQ on my device I have to remember to change it back with each headphone.  Also really poor battery life, first charge lasted 3 1/2 hours verse the Noble Falcon Pro with 3 hybrid drivers lasting 8 1/2 hours.  Sound quality is similar to the Noble Falcon Pro’s, both have different strengths in sound quality.  I like the B&W highs, but prefer the faster Noble lows and better timing.  B &W gets a little bloat with lows and slows the timing while the highs keep great pace with great detail.  Seems to be an issue with many TWS’s, both have great mids.  B&W has a better EQ out of the box, but has no option to adjust to preference as I’d like to tune the mid bass down a few dbs.  The Noble has a ten way EQ in their app so I can adjust to my liking.  Too early to decide if I’m keeping the PI7 but battery life is really poor, no app EQ and drop outs are not looking good, sound quality is it’s only plus.


I found drop outs walking around also with DAPs but not with smartphones (Samsung Fold 2 and 21Ultra)


----------



## W1ll1eTheP1mp

Please help me folks! Its so hard to choose in the vast ocean of TWS IEMs. Which TWS has the best implenation of surround sound/360/Atmos/immersive sound etc?this can be fun if done right. I need a TWS for work and light jogging. Good battery, good mic and decent sound is what i need. This is not going to be a critical listening device i got U12T for that. This is going to be a very "fun" tws IEM.


----------



## michsu

Amazon has the PI7 white in stock if anyone is interested. I’m still considering because of the bad battery life.


----------



## senorbroom

W1ll1eTheP1mp said:


> Please help me folks! Its so hard to choose in the vast ocean of TWS IEMs. Which TWS has the best implenation of surround sound/360/Atmos/immersive sound etc?this can be fun if done right. I need a TWS for work and light jogging. Good battery, good mic and decent sound is what i need. This is not going to be a critical listening device i got U12T for that. This is going to be a very "fun" tws IEM.


iOS or android? Off the top of my head don't only the Airpod Pros and Galaxy Buds Pro do surround sound?


----------



## W1ll1eTheP1mp

W1ll1eTheP1mp said:


> Please help me folks! Its so hard to choose in the vast ocean of TWS IEMs. Which TWS has the best implenation of surround sound/360/Atmos/immersive sound etc?this can be fun if done right. I need a TWS for work and light jogging. Good battery, good mic and decent sound is what i need. This is not going to be a critical listening device i got U12T for that. This is going to be a very "fun" tws IEM.


I know galaxy buds pro, Apple airpods Pro and Sony have it. But the galaxy buds requires newest samsung phone(Im a LGV40 user). The airpods need Apple ios??. What about Sony 360 audio with tidal? Or is it just bull quality?


----------



## W1ll1eTheP1mp

senorbroom said:


> iOS or android? Off the top of my head don't only the Airpod Pros and Galaxy Buds Pro do surround sound?


Android 10 LG V40


----------



## Caipirina

michsu said:


> Amazon has the PI7 white in stock if anyone is interested. I’m still considering because of the bad battery life.


weird, can't find .. tried US, German and Japanese Amazon ... the latter has funky results ...


----------



## Coop

Well, after researching the alternatives a bit, I keep coming back to the Melomania Touch. So I ordered a set, should be here by the end of the week... Now the wait begins...


----------



## MFHRaptor (May 4, 2021)

W1ll1eTheP1mp said:


> Please help me folks! Its so hard to choose in the vast ocean of TWS IEMs. Which TWS has the best implenation of surround sound/360/Atmos/immersive sound etc?this can be fun if done right. I need a TWS for work and light jogging. Good battery, good mic and decent sound is what i need. This is not going to be a critical listening device i got U12T for that. This is going to be a very "fun" tws IEM.


I just got the Galaxy Buds Pro, and *it requires One UI 3.1-equipped Galaxy smartphone/tablet *for that feature. 3D sound implementation reminded me of my Audeze Mobius. There's an extra level of immersion when watching multi-channel content.. and there's head-tracking as well, which might not be as accurate, but it's a thing I've always loved about the Mobius. The Galaxy Buds Pro are worth the money for this feature solely, let alone the rest of their technological conveniences.
As for overall "regular" sound quality, strangely the Buds Pro performs admirably with live or binaural recordings. It conveys decent atmosphere to the soundstage.. However, they don't sound that good with studio recordings! Moreover, their sound gives me a throat itch!!


----------



## W1ll1eTheP1mp

MFHRaptor said:


> I just got the Galaxy Buds Pro, and *it requires One UI 3.1-equipped Galaxy smartphone/tablet *for that feature. 3D sound implementation reminded me of my Audeze Mobius. There's an extra level of immersion when watching multi-channel content.. and there's head-tracking as well, which might not be as accurate, but it's a thing I've always loved about the Mobius. The Galaxy Buds Pro are worth the money for this feature solely, let alone the rest of their technological conveniences.
> As for overall "regular" sound quality, strangely the Buds Pro performs admirably with live or binaural recordings. It conveys decent atmosphere to the soundstage.. However, they don't sound that good with studio recordings! Moreover, their sound gives me a throat itch!!


I only have a Galaxy tab A7. The budget model. Well, im not so interested in buying a product and not be able to use cool features like the headtracking. I have LG V40. 

From this thread it seems like Melomania 1, lypertek and the Sony wh xm3's is very popular?


----------



## W1ll1eTheP1mp

Coop said:


> Well, after researching the alternatives a bit, I keep coming back to the Melomania Touch. So I ordered a set, should be here by the end of the week... Now the wait begins...


What where your alternativer and what was you looking for? Im in the market myself, but ALOT have happend the last years on this front


----------



## michsu (May 4, 2021)

Well, forget about the PI7. I just read the ios app comments and they are terrible. Sort it by recent and the top few are bad too. Someone bought PI7, and it wouldn’t stay connected. People were asking for EQ since last year and they responded they will look into it. It shouldn’t be too hard to do if others can do it.

https://apps.apple.com/us/app/bowers-wilkins-headphones/id1446031493


----------



## michsu

Caipirina said:


> weird, can't find .. tried US, German and Japanese Amazon ... the latter has funky results ...


Bowers & Wilkins PI7 True Wireless in-Ear Headphones - White https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08H8486Y...abc_ZX89YZ5HRTB44WXH0HQJ?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1


----------



## michsu (May 4, 2021)

Anytime looking for status between? I saw some for $99. Is that a good price? I read through some comments and they said the telephone part isn’t that good. 😞


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

Coop said:


> Well, after researching the alternatives a bit, I keep coming back to the Melomania Touch. So I ordered a set, should be here by the end of the week... Now the wait begins...


Congrats! I think you made a really smart purchase. They may feel a bit bloated in the sound signature at first, but make sure the firmware is at least up to date. Sound signature was improved in the latest version.

Additionally, if you're having a hard time with getting them to fit or stay in, don't hesitate to ask questions. Some of us have extensively tip-rolled and can help there.


michsu said:


> Well, forget about the PI7. I just read the ios app comments and they are terrible. Sort it by recent and the top few are bad too. Someone bought PI7, and it wouldn’t stay connected. People were asking for EQ since last year and they responded they will look into it. It shouldn’t be too hard to do if others can do it.
> 
> https://apps.apple.com/us/app/bowers-wilkins-headphones/id1446031493


Keep in mind fixing app issues take a while and a lot of really stable products now had horrible apps in the beginning. Noble, for example, used a version of the same shell app that runs HiBy Blue and could only do firmware updates. EQ came later.

Not saying that'll for sure happen with the PI7, but give the developers some time to redeem themselves. Especially if the issues are with iOS, it's a lot easier to isolate, repair, and improve the issues reviewers are complaining about.


michsu said:


> Anytime looking for status between? I saw some for $99. Is that a good price? I read through some comments and they said the telephone part isn’t that good. 😞


That's the current Indiegogo pricing. If you're considering, that's a good price to pay.


----------



## tinyman392

michsu said:


> Well, forget about the PI7. I just read the ios app comments and they are terrible. Sort it by recent and the top few are bad too. Someone bought PI7, and it wouldn’t stay connected. People were asking for EQ since last year and they responded they will look into it. It shouldn’t be too hard to do if others can do it.
> 
> https://apps.apple.com/us/app/bowers-wilkins-headphones/id1446031493


A lot of apps have a lot of connection issues.  I guess manufacturers get better with it with time, but I've run into apps that have negative reviews with absolutely no issues while others with good reviews can't seem to get a connection.


----------



## michsu

So you guys are telling me I should still get the PI7 then.. haha


----------



## tinyman392

michsu said:


> So you guys are telling me I should still get the PI7 then.. haha


I don't own them, so I can't recommend them.  I was only mentioning that BT connection issues within apps seems to be somewhat sporadic (which also makes them a PITA to debug in general).


----------



## pkcpga

michsu said:


> So you guys are telling me I should still get the PI7 then.. haha


I might be returning mine, 2nd full charge lasted 3 hours 17 minutes this morning.  Using with iPhone 12 Pro Max, I got 3 disconnects during that time while walking with my phone in my pocket.  No issue with the Noble, Grado or Sennheiser walking in the same area.  With my Nobles or Grado’s I even sometimes leave my phone on the deck table when working in the yard and no issue.  Let alone leaving the phone in my pocket and 3 issues.  Easily reconnects but not sure why it disconnects in the first place.  Will try again after it’s recharged to see how long it lasts, but 3 hours 29 minutes and 3 hours 17 minutes are my first two full charges.  Just tried a hard reset and uninstall/reinstall on my phone, maybe that will help?


----------



## TK33

pkcpga said:


> I might be returning mine, 2nd full charge lasted 3 hours 17 minutes this morning.  Using with iPhone 12 Pro Max, I got 3 disconnects during that time while walking with my phone in my pocket.  No issue with the Noble, Grado or Sennheiser walking in the same area.  With my Nobles or Grado’s I even sometimes leave my phone on the deck table when working in the yard and no issue.  Let alone leaving the phone in my pocket and 3 issues.  Easily reconnects but not sure why it disconnects in the first place.  Will try again after it’s recharged to see how long it lasts, but 3 hours 29 minutes and 3 hours 17 minutes are my first two full charges.  Just tried a hard reset and uninstall/reinstall on my phone, maybe that will help?


 Seems like 3 hours is what we can expect.  I rarely have time to listen for more than 30-40 min before having another call or being interrupted and my commute is 1 1/2 to 2 hours max so its fine by me but probably a non-starter for many who need good battery life and are out and about all day.


----------



## michsu

That’s terrible. Thanks for your input. On to the next one then. People are recommending the Status between Pro. How about the Sennheiser Momentum? I have been looking at that but people didn’t like it too?


----------



## TK33

Caipirina said:


> weird, can't find .. tried US, German and Japanese Amazon ... the latter has funky results ...


Looks like its World Wide Stereo selling on the Amazon marketplace


----------



## michsu

TK33 said:


> Looks like its World Wide Stereo selling on the Amazon marketplace


Is that used for testing or completely new?


----------



## michsu

For the Sennheiser, I read comments where they turn on the ANC and get only 4-5 hours (even though it's rated for 7), so it's simliar to what B&W is offering (3 1/2).


TK33 said:


> Seems like 3 hours is what we can expect.  I rarely have time to listen for more than 30-40 min before having another call or being interrupted and my commute is 1 1/2 to 2 hours max so its fine by me but probably a non-starter for many who need good battery life and are out and about all day.


How is the ANC on that? Does it filter out the highs too? I read that many of the ANCs only do a good job at the low and mids. Thanks.


----------



## C_Lindbergh

Around 3 hours is freaking terrible, I'm glad I re-ordered the Melomania touch instead...


----------



## TK33

michsu said:


> For the Sennheiser, I read comments where they turn on the ANC and get only 4-5 hours (even though it's rated for 7), so it's simliar to what B&W is offering (3 1/2).
> 
> How is the ANC on that? Does it filter out the highs too? I read that many of the ANCs only do a good job at the low and mids. Thanks.


Haven't gotten mine yet but you are also asking the wrong person because I am one of the few that actually doesn't care for ANC and will probably end up leaving it off.  That weird pressure feeling I get from ANC gives me headaches so I prefer passive isolation when I want to block out sounds (like on a plane).  I also like to hear what is going on around me when walking around in NYC so I actually liked that the Galaxy Buds Live could be used to filter out just some lower end sounds like HVAC or fan noise while on a train/subway.  Just not a fan of listening to music on those but they are fantastic for calls.  Hoping the PI7 fills in the gap that my MTWs used to occupy. 

My only other ANC headphones are the QC35 IIs and I gave those to my wife....she loves the ANC on those (but it was not my cup of tea).


----------



## TK33

C_Lindbergh said:


> Around 3 hours is freaking terrible, I'm glad I re-ordered the Melomania touch instead...


Back to the original MW07 days...


----------



## TK33

michsu said:


> Is that used for testing or completely new?


They're a dealer.  I believe someone in the previous threads was just talking about their experience with them.

https://www.bowerswilkins.com/support/online-authorized-retailers


----------



## new2mus

MFHRaptor said:


> I just got the Galaxy Buds Pro, and *it requires One UI 3.1-equipped Galaxy smartphone/tablet *for that feature. 3D sound implementation reminded me of my Audeze Mobius. There's an extra level of immersion when watching multi-channel content.. and there's head-tracking as well, which might not be as accurate, but it's a thing I've always loved about the Mobius. The Galaxy Buds Pro are worth the money for this feature solely, let alone the rest of their technological conveniences.
> As for overall "regular" sound quality, strangely the Buds Pro performs admirably with live or binaural recordings. It conveys decent atmosphere to the soundstage.. However, they don't sound that good with studio recordings! Moreover, their sound gives me a throat itch!!


Interesting point about the studio recording sound for Buds pro. Did you have the Buds+? If so, how did they compare for studio recording? I have the Buds+ and debating whether I should get the Buds pro. Thanks.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

TK33 said:


> Haven't gotten mine yet but you are also asking the wrong person because I am one of the few that actually doesn't care for ANC and will probably end up leaving it off.  That weird pressure feeling I get from ANC gives me headaches so I prefer passive isolation when I want to block out sounds (like on a plane).  I also like to hear what is going on around me when walking around in NYC so I actually liked that the Galaxy Buds Live could be used to filter out just some lower end sounds like HVAC or fan noise while on a train/subway.  Just not a fan of listening to music on those but they are fantastic for calls.  Hoping the PI7 fills in the gap that my MTWs used to occupy.
> 
> My only other ANC headphones are the QC35 IIs and I gave those to my wife....she loves the ANC on those (but it was not my cup of tea).


ANC has come a ways since then. I have the original QC35. Can't stand the compression effect. Never got that with any of the ANC-capable TWS I've got, but I think I'd only use it if I'm walking to the convenience store nearby. Good news is even the JBL's ANC can handle that pretty well.


TK33 said:


> They're a dealer.  I believe someone in the previous threads was just talking about their experience with them.
> 
> https://www.bowerswilkins.com/support/online-authorized-retailers


That was me. Yeah, not the best costumer support (kept autocorrecting to "sorry" ha), but I didn't have any issue with making the order or getting a price adjustment when they went on sale right after I bought.

That particular rep probably just needed a hug or a lot of training in humility. So far, I'd still be willing to support them.


----------



## michsu

pkcpga said:


> I might be returning mine, 2nd full charge lasted 3 hours 17 minutes this morning.  Using with iPhone 12 Pro Max, I got 3 disconnects during that time while walking with my phone in my pocket.  No issue with the Noble, Grado or Sennheiser walking in the same area.  With my Nobles or Grado’s I even sometimes leave my phone on the deck table when working in the yard and no issue.  Let alone leaving the phone in my pocket and 3 issues.  Easily reconnects but not sure why it disconnects in the first place.  Will try again after it’s recharged to see how long it lasts, but 3 hours 29 minutes and 3 hours 17 minutes are my first two full charges.  Just tried a hard reset and uninstall/reinstall on my phone, maybe that will help?


Was this with the ANC on all the time or ANC completely off? Maybe the battery will last longer with ANC off? I don't need it on all the time, just a few minutes here and there.. Thanks.


----------



## erockg

I returned my PI7.  Couldn't deal with BT drops outdoors.  No patience.  I ordered the PI5 to see if those are any better.


----------



## PeteSTRADAMUS

pkcpga said:


> The Noble Falcon Pro has active crossovers with system on chip integrated circuitry to save power, space and weight.  The PI7 are the first bi amped and I guess that’s an inefficient design.
> Just received my PI7’s today so not ready to state how they fully compare.  My biggest complaint so far is drop outs while walking around and terrible app with no EQ.  Along with an OK tuning, would love to EQ them a bit but not something I can do directly and if I EQ on my device I have to remember to change it back with each headphone.  Also really poor battery life, first charge lasted 3 1/2 hours verse the Noble Falcon Pro with 3 hybrid drivers lasting 8 1/2 hours.  Sound quality is similar to the Noble Falcon Pro’s, both have different strengths in sound quality.  I like the B&W highs, but prefer the faster Noble lows and better timing.  B &W gets a little bloat with lows and slows the timing while the highs keep great pace with great detail.  Seems to be an issue with many TWS’s, both have great mids.  B&W has a better EQ out of the box, but has no option to adjust to preference as I’d like to tune the mid bass down a few dbs.  The Noble has a ten way EQ in their app so I can adjust to my liking.  Too early to decide if I’m keeping the PI7 but battery life is really poor, no app EQ and drop outs are not looking good, sound quality is it’s only plus.


I'm also on the fence between the P17 and Falcon Pro. I would use them for the gym pretty much. Battery life isn't much of a concern.


----------



## michsu (May 4, 2021)

Something like the Master Dynamics mw08 with "Up to 12 hours playtime / 10 hours with ANC" can last for two days easy. However, it's ANC isn't that good from reviews. It's music is pretty good though. What's comparable to the PI7, but with a bit more battery life?


----------



## vladzakhar

It might be a problem to use PI7 in the GYM. They are quiet. Falcons are much louder. The isolation is about the same.


----------



## vladzakhar

Noble Falcon Pros are closest to PI7 sound wise and with much better battery life. PI7 sounds better, though.


----------



## Havre

I don't love the battery performance on the PI7, but how often would I use it for 4 hours without putting it back in the case? Not often. And even if I would have to take a 15 min break to get 2 extra hours I think that should work just fine for me.

Ordered mine the other day. Just praying they won't have as many issues as mye Jabra 75t. Ending up getting my money back after endless problems.


----------



## michsu

What about battery degradation? Wouldn’t the time drop even more? Are these things done with full ANC calculation? If not, then the battery will be better.


----------



## PeteSTRADAMUS

vladzakhar said:


> It might be a problem to use PI7 in the GYM. They are quiet. Falcons are much louder. The isolation is about the same.


Yes, loudness is a big plus. The gym is very noisy.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

PeteSTRADAMUS said:


> I'm also on the fence between the P17 and Falcon Pro. I would use them for the gym pretty much. Battery life isn't much of a concern.


I think you'll be happier with the Falcon in the gym. I don't have issues with them popping out or moving around and think the stock tips do a great job of ensuring things stay that way. They also isolate really well, but HearThrough works effectively enough to stay safe on the weight floor.

If you prefer a different set of tips for grip, I'd all but guarantee it'll fit in there. Here's mine with Final TWS tips on, but have no issues getting them to sit properly in the case, even if I throw full-size IEM tips on them:


Perhaps this is to encourage people to reach out to John/Jim for custom tips for the NFP and still have them work with the case. Regardless, this is one pair you may find yourself not needing aftermarket tips for.

I just roll tips habitually.


michsu said:


> What about battery degradation? Wouldn’t the time drop even more? Are these things done with full ANC calculation? If not, then the battery will be better.


Practically speaking, yes. All of these batteries will degrade over time. That being said, good battery maintenance (not just constantly topping off the battery, letting it fully drain and recharge about once a month) will maximize the useful life of your devices. My original QC35s are still going strong and we bought them on release.

Best thing you can do to help yourself is _never let these charge overnight_. These devices should automatically either stop charging or transition to a trickle discharge/charge cycle, but that's not a guarantee and overcharging a battery will do more damage than just letting it passively drain.


----------



## Mr.Toad

pkcpga said:


> I might be returning mine, 2nd full charge lasted 3 hours 17 minutes this morning.  Using with iPhone 12 Pro Max, I got 3 disconnects during that time while walking with my phone in my pocket.  No issue with the Noble, Grado or Sennheiser walking in the same area.  With my Nobles or Grado’s I even sometimes leave my phone on the deck table when working in the yard and no issue.  Let alone leaving the phone in my pocket and 3 issues.  Easily reconnects but not sure why it disconnects in the first place.  Will try again after it’s recharged to see how long it lasts, but 3 hours 29 minutes and 3 hours 17 minutes are my first two full charges.  Just tried a hard reset and uninstall/reinstall on my phone, maybe that will help?


Yes, that's when I get bluetooth sputtering, too: walking with phone in my pocket. It doesn't disconnect, just cuts out for a second.


----------



## Mr.Toad

erockg said:


> I returned my PI7.  Couldn't deal with BT drops outdoors.  No patience.  I ordered the PI5 to see if those are any better.


They must be getting a lot of returns. I put in a request for an RMA, too. B&W are very slow in responding.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

Mr.Toad said:


> Yes, that's when I get bluetooth sputtering, too: walking with phone in my pocket. It doesn't disconnect, just cuts out for a second.


This has been a chronic BT issue since the beginning. I am convinced that back pockets are black holes for BT signal. Even my neckband-style wireless adapters suffer from signal dropouts when my phone is back-pocketed.

It's less apparent when your phone is in the back pocket that correlates to whatever the primary TWS you're using is (even with the TWS+ models). You could try shifting pocket to see if you encounter the same dropouts as a free troubleshooting step.


Mr.Toad said:


> They must be getting a lot of returns. I put in a request for an RMA, too. B&W are very slow in responding.


RMA for exchange or for return? Learned yesterday that it's a pretty important distinction.


----------



## TK33

Mr.Toad said:


> They must be getting a lot of returns. I put in a request for an RMA, too. B&W are very slow in responding.


Mine still haven't shipped so hopefully I don't end up with one of yours...


----------



## Mr.Toad (May 4, 2021)

miserybeforethemusic said:


> This has been a chronic BT issue since the beginning. I am convinced that back pockets are black holes for BT signal. Even my neckband-style wireless adapters suffer from signal dropouts when my phone is back-pocketed.
> 
> It's less apparent when your phone is in the back pocket that correlates to whatever the primary TWS you're using is (even with the TWS+ models). You could try shifting pocket to see if you encounter the same dropouts as a free troubleshooting step.
> 
> RMA for exchange or for return? Learned yesterday that it's a pretty important distinction.


Side pocket. No such sputtering with WF-1000XM3, MTW2 or EAH-AZ70W. Surely if they can manage it B&W should be able to. I have tried changing pockets without much success. It seems to be associated with movement - I can wander indoors a room away from my phone without a problem

Return, although I may order another one - I like the sound.


----------



## TK33

miserybeforethemusic said:


> This has been a chronic BT issue since the beginning. I am convinced that back pockets are black holes for BT signal. Even my neckband-style wireless adapters suffer from signal dropouts when my phone is back-pocketed.
> 
> It's less apparent when your phone is in the back pocket that correlates to whatever the primary TWS you're using is (even with the TWS+ models). You could try shifting pocket to see if you encounter the same dropouts as a free troubleshooting step.
> 
> RMA for exchange or for return? Learned yesterday that it's a pretty important distinction.



Interesting...i always keep my phone in my back pocket but havent noticed this with most of my stuff.  I did get dropouts consistently where there is lots of interference (Times Square for example) or right by my train station (always a drop out there for some reason) but never had the back pocket or cutout when turning head issue that others talk about.  Hoping the PI7 is no different but doesnt sound promising.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

Mr.Toad said:


> Side pocket. No such sputtering with WF-1000XM3, MTW2 or EAH-AZ70W. Surely if they can manage it B&W should be able to.
> 
> Return, although I may order another one - I like the sound.


There is _so much_ variability when it comes to BT signal dropouts. Sometimes it's the silicon, sometimes it's the casing, sometimes it's the broadcast channel (especially in crowded signal spaces) and sometimes it's just PFM.


TK33 said:


> Interesting...i always keep my phone in my back pocket but havent noticed this with most of my stuff.  I did get dropouts consistently where there is lots of interference (Times Square for example) or right by my train station (always a drop out there for some reason) but never had the back pocket or cutout when turning head issue that others talk about.  Hoping the PI7 is no different but doesnt sound promising.


Never seems to affect some people. I can reproduce it fairly well across just about every BT device I own, so maybe I'm just a walking Faraday cage sometimes. Only fix I've managed to find is changing which pocket the phone goes into.

Right pocket, left bud (or vice versa) seems like the easiest way to make this happen. It's an extreme case.


----------



## michsu

Are these with iPhones or other brands? Maybe that has something to do with it? Maybe it doesn’t like a particular Bluetooth chip?


----------



## Mr.Toad

TK33 said:


> Mine still haven't shipped so hopefully I don't end up with one of yours...


I'll etch a secret code at an obscure point inside the case if you like.


----------



## erockg

Mr.Toad said:


> Side pocket. No such sputtering with WF-1000XM3, MTW2 or EAH-AZ70W. Surely if they can manage it B&W should be able to. I have tried changing pockets without much success. It seems to be associated with movement - I can wander indoors a room away from my phone without a problem
> 
> Return, although I may order another one - I like the sound.


I have zero BT issues outside with my other TWS.  Just the B&W.  It's annoying.  Hopefully, maybe with a little less tech inside, the PI5 do not have the same issue.  Fingers crossed!


----------



## erockg

michsu said:


> Are these with iPhones or other brands? Maybe that has something to do with it? Maybe it doesn’t like a particular Bluetooth chip?


I'm on iPhone 12.  No issues with any other TWS other than the B&W.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

michsu said:


> Are these with iPhones or other brands? Maybe that has something to do with it? Maybe it doesn’t like a particular Bluetooth chip?


OnePlus 8T and Google Pixel 3A for my testing; my son has one of the newer iPhones (it's a 10 something or other).

Even the phone case you might be using can affect this sort of stuff. My phone always lives in a case, but I know there's a tradeoff in signal strength as a result.


----------



## Mr.Toad

miserybeforethemusic said:


> There is _so much_ variability when it comes to BT signal dropouts. Sometimes it's the silicon, sometimes it's the casing, sometimes it's the broadcast channel (especially in crowded signal spaces) and sometimes it's just PFM.
> 
> Never seems to affect some people. I can reproduce it fairly well across just about every BT device I own, so maybe I'm just a walking Faraday cage sometimes. Only fix I've managed to find is changing which pocket the phone goes into.
> 
> Right pocket, left bud (or vice versa) seems like the easiest way to make this happen. It's an extreme case.


A lot of variability, true. The PI7s hiccup when I open my laptop even though I've never connected them to it. The EAH-AZ70Ws don't like my microwave oven. 

I'm attempting to return them because wireless charging isn't working - I might just live with the PI7s other peccadilloes.


----------



## erockg

TK33 said:


> Interesting...i always keep my phone in my back pocket but havent noticed this with most of my stuff.  I did get dropouts consistently where there is lots of interference (Times Square for example) or right by my train station (always a drop out there for some reason) but never had the back pocket or cutout when turning head issue that others talk about.  Hoping the PI7 is no different but doesnt sound promising.


I bet you're fine with the PI7s in the city with buildings for BT to bounce off of.  And who know, maybe a fw update fixes the issues some of us are having.  I just didn't want to wait after spending $400+ on them, so I returned them and ordered the PI5.  Saved a few bucks too.  Man, I miss NYC.  LFGM!


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

Mr.Toad said:


> A lot of variability, true. The PI7s hiccup when I open my laptop even though I've never connected them to it. The EAH-AZ70Ws don't like my microwave oven.
> 
> I'm attempting to return them because wireless charging isn't working - I might just live with the PI7s other peccadilloes.


Even my desktop mouse/keyboard combo (Logitech MX, not the cheap stuff) can't handle BT very well when I'm using my TWS at the same time. I end up having to rely on the proprietary connection half the time or go without using my TWS if I need to type.

Signal interference out the wazoo. It's not just a TWS problem.


----------



## mainguy

pkcpga said:


> I might be returning mine, 2nd full charge lasted 3 hours 17 minutes this morning.  Using with iPhone 12 Pro Max, I got 3 disconnects during that time while walking with my phone in my pocket.  No issue with the Noble, Grado or Sennheiser walking in the same area.  With my Nobles or Grado’s I even sometimes leave my phone on the deck table when working in the yard and no issue.  Let alone leaving the phone in my pocket and 3 issues.  Easily reconnects but not sure why it disconnects in the first place.  Will try again after it’s recharged to see how long it lasts, but 3 hours 29 minutes and 3 hours 17 minutes are my first two full charges.  Just tried a hard reset and uninstall/reinstall on my phone, maybe that will help?


To be honest this is fine given the case has fast charge, 15 min of charging for 2 hrs listening on the buds right? Im fine with short battery life if the case has that feature. Easy compromise for SQ too


----------



## michsu

10 available on Amazon now.. I think I’m still going to get it


----------



## michsu (May 4, 2021)

I just bought it and I’ll try it out. I can always return it since it’s Amazon prime. How is he making money if he’s selling at the regular price? Maybe at a discount?


----------



## Mr.Toad

michsu said:


> Are these with iPhones or other brands? Maybe that has something to do with it? Maybe it doesn’t like a particular Bluetooth chip?


Android Pixel 5 in my case.


----------



## TK33

michsu said:


> I just bought it and I’ll try it out. I can always return it since it’s Amazon prime. How is he making money if he’s selling at the regular price? Maybe at a discount?


I dont think they pay B&W MSRP but if you wanted to help support the little guy you could order directly from them with free shipping.  Of course, with the issues we have been hearing about I can see why you want to take advantage of Prime shipping. Amazon does make it easy to return.


----------



## michsu (May 4, 2021)

TK33 said:


> I dont think they pay B&W MSRP but if you wanted to help support the little guy you could order directly from them with free shipping.  Of course, with the issues we have been hearing about I can see why you want to take advantage of Prime shipping. Amazon does make it easy to return.


It's a lot faster too.. Mine was already shipped, arriving Friday 
saw this on Amazon page...


           Question:

                                                                                      Can you use just one of these independently without the other, effectively doubling the battery life for phone call use on a given day?                                                           

               Answer:

                                                             Hi, many thanks for your enquiry. Yes, you can operate these in this way, if you wish. For further advice , please see our website FAQ for this product, or call 1 800 370 3740. Many thanks, Bowers & Wilkins.
     By Bowers & Wilkins                                              Manufacturer                   on May 4, 2021


----------



## miserybeforethemusic (May 4, 2021)

Well this is interesting and I wasn't aware I could even do this on my 8T until now...

Previously, when I had to change codecs, I had to drill all the way down to Developer Options to change it. Tried something different this time:



Spoiler: Quick Codec Change



Step 1: Navigate to your Bluetooth devices list in Settings. You can long-press on the BT icon in the notification tray as a shortcut. From there, tap on the gear icon next to the device you want to modify



Step 2: Tap on the codec displayed on the info page. I've highlighted it so it hopefully sticks out like a sore thumb:


Step 3: I received the following pop-up and selected aptX instead of Adaptive:

Et voila! Quick codec changes on OnePlus phones. I have an inkling there will be something similar for all Android users, but you're totally at the mercy of what the OEM chose to do with your particular device.





TK33 said:


> I dont think they pay B&W MSRP but if you wanted to help support the little guy you could order directly from them with free shipping.  Of course, with the issues we have been hearing about I can see why you want to take advantage of Prime shipping. Amazon does make it easy to return.


Yeah, I felt pretty on my own with the WWS rep I had to deal with. Really hoping it's an isolated incident, but someone who was as short with me as this representative was would have been fired on the spot had they been working for me. This might be one of those cases where you want a little Amazon assurance.


----------



## michsu

saw this


miserybeforethemusic said:


> Well this is interesting and I wasn't aware I could even do this on my 8T until now...
> 
> Previously, when I had to change codecs, I had to drill all the way down to Developer Options to change it. Tried something different this time:
> 
> ...


You didn't order through Amazon? Did you order directly from the World Wide Audio place? That seems to be the same seller as the one on Amazon. Maybe they didn't get production units and are only selling early units?


----------



## erockg

michsu said:


> saw this
> 
> You didn't order through Amazon? Did you order directly from the World Wide Audio place? That seems to be the same seller as the one on Amazon. Maybe they didn't get production units and are only selling early units?


Worldwide Stereo sells through Amazon with Amazon Prime.  You still get the Prime benefits, but the return goes to WWS.  Amazon isn't selling the B&Ws yet, i.e. shipped and sold by Amazon yet.


----------



## michsu (May 4, 2021)

erockg said:


> Worldwide Stereo sells through Amazon with Amazon Prime.  You still get the Prime benefits, but the return goes to WWS.  Amazon isn't selling the B&Ws yet, i.e. shipped and sold by Amazon yet.


Oh yes, I thought he ordered through Amazon like me because he said he was having trouble with a WWS representative. Sorry for the confusion. Supposedly you can return to Amazon without question.


----------



## erockg

michsu said:


> Oh yes, I thought he ordered through Amazon like me because he said he was having trouble with a WWS representative. Sorry for the confusion. Supposedly you can return to Amazon without question.


Yes, you'll have no issues.  I've bought stuff from WWS without any issues before.  But that's just me.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

michsu said:


> saw this
> 
> You didn't order through Amazon? Did you order directly from the World Wide Audio place? That seems to be the same seller as the one on Amazon. Maybe they didn't get production units and are only selling early units?


I ordered directly through their website. A couple of the loudspeaker guys I pay attention to have recommended WWS in the past. Figured I'd give them a shot to see if repeat business was warranted. Still on the fence, to be honest.

I guess we'll see how this RMA is handled first. It's estimated to arrive there Saturday, so I'm not even expecting an update until Monday afternoon PST at the earliest. Will definitely keep everybody posted, though.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

Changed the fins on the MT from Small back to Medium and swapped out the Final tips for the stock E-Pro tips from the Noble Falcon (1st gen). Tried the ones from the Pro, but the nozzle is too large for a secure fit. They don't budge now. At all.



Sonically, I don't distinguish these much from each other. I know the material/coatings are totally different between the two tip styles, but seems like these tips are more alike than they are different. Bore diameter is about the same. Loft is about the same. Outer diameter is larger on the Final and the material is a little more flexible/thin on the Final tips. E-Pro's tips are, by their own admission, graphene-impregnated silicone. I believe Final goes for a medical-grade silicone with no additives.


Don't know if anybody would believe me that they still socket up and charge, so took a photo for proof:


----------



## Darkestred

The one thing i can say about my MTs is no matter the tip i have not had any issues charging.  I just plop them in.  No adding twists and turns.  The one thing i did learn today is that there are different fins.  I need to look over packages better.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

Darkestred said:


> The one thing i can say about my MTs is no matter the tip i have not had any issues charging.  I just plop them in.  No adding twists and turns.  The one thing i did learn today is that there are different fins.  I need to look over packages better.


Knowing is half the battle. I've done way too many receipt inspections in my career; it's translated to me verifying I get all my pack-ins 

I can get the stock tips, SpinFit CP360, Final TWS, and now the E-Pro in without an issue. It's the foamies/standard IEM tips that tend to cause trouble for me.

Man, these E-Pro with the MT are a fantastic pairing. Might need to try working out with these, but they easily stay in place for all of the housework and I can't perceive any hot spots (pressure points). May have to start recommending these over the Final, especially for the price and availability.

Really impressive how easily it handles Nine Inch Nails' Ghosts I-IV which, for me, has always been a tough album to nail down dynamically. Doesn't quite sparkle up top like the Technics or Noble can, but this is one of the better renditions I've heard, especially on stuff like the constant fingerpicking in the background.

Would love to see if someone else gets a shared experience with 'em. Who's willing?


----------



## Darkestred

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Knowing is half the battle. I've done way too many receipt inspections in my career; it's translated to me verifying I get all my pack-ins
> 
> I can get the stock tips, SpinFit CP360, Final TWS, and now the E-Pro in without an issue. It's the foamies/standard IEM tips that tend to cause trouble for me.
> 
> ...


GI Joe was invaluable as a kid.  I have something similar to the e-horns.  Need to find em.  I'm currently using the stockers but i find sometimes the stock fin slips out which causes ear pain but only when you realize it! and need to work on a better tip.  My ear pieces do slide out from the bottom and need to be readjusted.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

Darkestred said:


> GI Joe was invaluable as a kid.  I have something similar to the e-horns.  Need to find em.  I'm currently using the stockers but i find sometimes the stock fin slips out which causes ear pain but only when you realize it! and need to work on a better tip.  My ear pieces do slide out from the bottom and need to be readjusted.


It's just nice to have something that allows for effectively unrestricted sound travel. The Final TWS were similar in this regard, but much like the stock MT tips, do get a little slippery.

Good luck tracking those tips down!


----------



## pkcpga

michsu said:


> Was this with the ANC on all the time or ANC completely off? Maybe the battery will last longer with ANC off? I don't need it on all the time, just a few minutes here and there.. Thanks.


This was with ANC off, I personally don’t like ANC the little distortion all headphones make while ANC is on drives me batty.


----------



## CocaCola15

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Knowing is half the battle. I've done way too many receipt inspections in my career; it's translated to me verifying I get all my pack-ins
> 
> I can get the stock tips, SpinFit CP360, Final TWS, and now the E-Pro in without an issue. It's the foamies/standard IEM tips that tend to cause trouble for me.
> 
> ...


I’m in. Ordered.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

CocaCola15 said:


> I’m in. Ordered.


I honestly just need to make sure this isn't "new thing" syndrome or if it legitimately helps almost "grip" your inner ear like a foam tip would. It's exactly what I needed to go from a good fit on the MT to a "oh, this doesn't move" fit.

Plus they're compatible with other stuff if it doesn't work out on the MT. I do like that it feels more or less like the only sound going into my ear is that from the nozzle. That horn tip is absolutely genius.

Anyway, thank you for taking the plunge. Pretty inexpensive anyway, especially relative to what some of my IEM tips cost. Hope they improve the experience just a bit more!


----------



## CocaCola15 (May 4, 2021)

As noted, my right side is funky loose with the MT OEM tips. And I need a consistent seal to be fair to them. Tired of fidgeting with the right bud and tapping pause. Getting on my nerves. So this is right up my alley.

Meantime spending the time listening to Tommy, ripped to flac from a Master recording on the LG 30 with the Between Pro. Just blown away by soundstage/separation and detail.

i noticed someone saw a comment about call quality being sub-par. I have not taken one call with the BPs yet. Call clarity is not really a factor for me. I’ll hsve to call someone I guess.


----------



## earmonger (May 5, 2021)

miserybeforethemusic said:


> There is _so much_ variability when it comes to BT signal dropouts. Sometimes it's the silicon, sometimes it's the casing, sometimes it's the broadcast channel (especially in crowded signal spaces) and sometimes it's just PFM.


What does Premiata Forneria Marconi, Italy's flagship 1970s prog-rock band, have to do with Bluetooth? I'm confused.


----------



## michsu (May 4, 2021)

Haha I just placed an order for the Status Between Pro on Indiegogo for $99 just because the person above liked the soundstage and clarity . However, I’m more excited about the PI7 that’s coming on Friday.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

earmonger said:


> What does Premiata Forneria Marconi have to do with Bluetooth? I'm confused.


Hahaha it's engineer speak for Pure [blank]ing Magic. Don't be surprised if you see that tucked into a few tech manuals out there.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

Oh this is a real treat on the MT tonight. Having that extra low-end weight definitely helps with the ambience. Not the airiest, most spacious presentation, but not too shabby. I can breathe.


----------



## bronco1015

Got the MW08 in, they connected to my V60 via APTX Adaptive on their own. Initial impressions? I just can't believe how sloppy and pathetic the bass sounds on these. Blobby, not good texture, they respond to eq okay, but the sloppiness of the bass tuning can't be eqed out.
everything else sounds okay, at times especially after eq, I noticed they have decent placement of instruments, and the mids can shine in a unique way. Hard to describe.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

bronco1015 said:


> Got the MW08 in, they connected to my V60 via APTX Adaptive on their own. Initial impressions? I just can't believe how sloppy and pathetic the bass sounds on these. Blobby, not good texture, they respond to eq okay, but the sloppiness of the bass tuning can't be eqed out.
> everything else sounds okay, at times especially after eq, I noticed they have decent placement of instruments, and the mids can shine in a unique way. Hard to describe.


Based off what I remember from the MW07 GO, I think I know what you're describing. Try listening to something with a lot of brass instruments on it, hopefully orchestral. How do the brass instruments sound to you?


----------



## bronco1015

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Based off what I remember from the MW07 GO, I think I know what you're describing. Try listening to something with a lot of brass instruments on it, hopefully orchestral. How do the brass instruments sound to you?


Hmm.. I've been playing with eq so much I had to go back to default and listen for a while. On orchestral as well as jazz, when bass isn't in the way they both really shine. Trumpets have that crisp bight / sizzle, and Trombones have that balance of mellow and pop. They both get your attention. Even a Trumpet with a plunger sounded pretty realistic. i've been trying to find a tuning that showcases this potential that is still audible in default mode. Honestly a complete facelift for bass and smoothing it out would do wonders for these.


----------



## W1ll1eTheP1mp

Best budget TWS with good battery life?


----------



## rhsauer (May 5, 2021)

bronco1015 said:


> Hmm.. I've been playing with eq so much I had to go back to default and listen for a while. On orchestral as well as jazz, when bass isn't in the way they both really shine. Trumpets have that crisp bight / sizzle, and Trombones have that balance of mellow and pop. They both get your attention. Even a Trumpet with a plunger sounded pretty realistic. i've been trying to find a tuning that showcases this potential that is still audible in default mode. Honestly a complete facelift for bass and smoothing it out would do wonders for these.


Are you listening with ANC on?  The ANC (particularly the max ANC) on the MW08s changes the sound signature and emphasizes the bass.   I think that's intended, because when there is excessive environmental noise the lower frequencies tend to get lost first -- but could result in the bloated bass you're describing.  Without ANC the bass is much tamer.  I listen without ANC and only activate ANC when I need it.  (The physical controls make it very easy to turn ANC on and off.)


----------



## MFHRaptor

pkcpga said:


> I might be returning mine, 2nd full charge lasted 3 hours 17 minutes this morning.  Using with iPhone 12 Pro Max, I got 3 disconnects during that time while walking with my phone in my pocket.  No issue with the Noble, Grado or Sennheiser walking in the same area.  With my Nobles or Grado’s I even sometimes leave my phone on the deck table when working in the yard and no issue.  Let alone leaving the phone in my pocket and 3 issues.  Easily reconnects but not sure why it disconnects in the first place.  Will try again after it’s recharged to see how long it lasts, but 3 hours 29 minutes and 3 hours 17 minutes are my first two full charges.  Just tried a hard reset and uninstall/reinstall on my phone, maybe that will help?


By Nobles, do you mean the Falcon Pro?
If so, and regardless of connection issues, I would like to ask how does the B&W PI7 compare to the Falcon Pro in sound quality, and soundstage?


new2mus said:


> Interesting point about the studio recording sound for Buds pro. Did you have the Buds+? If so, how did they compare for studio recording? I have the Buds+ and debating whether I should get the Buds pro. Thanks.


The Galaxy Buds Pro are the only Samsung earbuds I have, but if you're contesting musicality and pure sound quality between it and the Buds +, I wouldn't even recommend the Buds Pro for their sound. Get them for their myriad of technological features, or that 360°/3D sound feature (if you own a One UI 3.1 device).


----------



## C_Lindbergh

W1ll1eTheP1mp said:


> Best budget TWS with good battery life?


Depends on how you define budget


----------



## bronco1015

rhsauer said:


> Are you listening with ANC on?  The ANC (particularly the max ANC) on the MW08s changes the sound signature and emphasizes the bass.   I think that's intended, because when there is excessive environmental noise the lower frequencies tend to get lost first -- but could result in the bloated bass you're describing.  Without ANC the bass is much tamer.  I listen without ANC and only activate ANC when I need it.  (The physical controls make it very easy to turn ANC on and off.)


I haven't downloaded the app yet, so the only ANC setting i'm toggling to is whatever is programmed by default not sure if that's All day ANC or the max ANC. But i'm not hearing a difference in bass quantity. Some products the bass is reduced with ANC, some it's amplified as you mention, but these?...maybe a smidge more bass but the texture of it is the same, regardless of ambient, passive or ANC.


----------



## Caipirina (May 5, 2021)

I have this terrible itch that I need yet another TWS  and my local selection is very limited ... but, besides the ORANGE WF-SP800N from Sony, which I did not know existed (still looks to plasticky to me and I remember the complaints I read here about the fit), I also found a shop that allegedly has those 4 Nuarls ... and I have no Nuarl in my collection ... any of them highly recommended? and idea why the price difference between NT01L and NT01A?





Wow, there really is not a lot of reviews on the N6 Mini out there .. I found the few mentions that are in this thread, but on YT there are NO English language reviews ... hmm .. makes me curious .. and price is not too bad ...


----------



## Luchyres

Caipirina said:


> I have this terrible itch that I need yet another TWS  and my local selection is very limited ... but, besides the ORANGE WF-SP800N from Sony, which I did not know existed (still looks to plasticky to me and I remember the complaints I read here about the fit), I also found a shop that allegedly has those 4 Nuarls ... and I have no Nuarl in my collection ... any of them highly recommended? and idea why the price difference between NT01L and NT01A?
> 
> 
> 
> Wow, there really is not a lot of reviews on the N6 Mini out there .. I found the few mentions that are in this thread, but on YT there are NO English language reviews ... hmm .. makes me curious .. and price is not too bad ...


I loved my NT01A and N6, and even without the HDSS (which iirc the mini is lacking) I'm still very curious to hear the N6 Mini. That's the one I would encourage you to check out from these - or perhaps the N6 sport though I know even less about those. 

Let us know if you do!


----------



## dasadab

After a week, I returned my B&W I7s.  I loved the sound, but I perhaps got a bad pair because the ANC was not effective at all for me.  I have read a few other comments about the excellent ANC, so I am hoping I just got a bad pair.  I fiddled around with various tips and got solid seals, but still no joy with the ANC.  It was “there”, just really marginal.  Not even close to my AirPod pros or the Sonys.  I had to listen really hard to detect it at all with various frequencies, etc.   Anyway, I will await other ANC comments and probably reorder.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

Finally had to reach out to Status on their Indiegogo page asking where my Between Pro were. I ordered those dang things back on Valentine's Day and we're definitely past April at this point. Doing what I can to stay optimistic, though.


----------



## Canabuc

I have been out of this thread for a little while as I have started to dip my toes in the ear monitor world. I have come to love the Moondrop Arias and perhaps at one point I will consider buying true wireless adaptors for them.

that said a couple things sort of surprise me. There was buzz couple months ago with a leaked image of the new Sony‘s and here we are now in May and there has been no further news. When I come to think about it they really started the shift towards adding quality active noise cancelling to an earbud with premium sound. The XM threes nearly 2 years later are still rated among the best for noise cancelling and sound quality and where they to have wireless charging and we’re less bulky would probably be still among the best.

kind of disappointing that the latest offering from master and dynamic does not sound as good and that the noise cancelling give the price is not great. Also disappointing we’re all the issues I had with my Melomania  touch. And now from the sounds of it while Bower and Wilkins have really put out an interesting product that has some unique functionality, the connectivity issues in battery life are real disappointments.

As I have now started to really enjoy the sound of an I EM, I kind of feel like using a true wireless earbud is only worthwhile now when I am on the goal I hear exercising or perhaps when using a microphone for a zoom call or some thing else. Because of that the things that are more important to me our comfort and fit the ability to not get ruined from sweat good sound and battery life.

I just don’t think with the current offerings I could justify the expense of three or $400 for something that is not gonna get use that often for me. I think once Bluetooth low energy becomes the new adopted standard and that the transmission quality improves both in connectivity as well as data transmission, I can then revisit improved through wireless earbuds that can give me in ear monitor sound while still being wireless.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

Canabuc said:


> I have been out of this thread for a little while as I have started to dip my toes in the ear monitor world. I have come to love the Moondrop Arias and perhaps at one point I will consider buying true wireless adaptors for them.
> 
> that said a couple things sort of surprise me. There was buzz couple months ago with a leaked image of the new Sony‘s and here we are now in May and there has been no further news. When I come to think about it they really started the shift towards adding quality active noise cancelling to an earbud with premium sound. The XM threes nearly 2 years later are still rated among the best for noise cancelling and sound quality and where they to have wireless charging and we’re less bulky would probably be still among the best.
> 
> ...


Then don't try to justify the expense. You've now seen how far a sub-$100 set of IEMs on regular power can perform relative to what you've tried. If it's truly the sound quality that you're after, then wired is going to be the way to go for you. There is not a single pair of TWS that can match what some of these IEMs are capable of. I'm always a PM away and willing to help whichever choice you decide to make.

The CF01 arrive tomorrow and I'm genuinely curious if they're going to fit the bill. They're certainly the most expensive of the TWS adapters as far as I've seen. As long as they do decent with the Kanas Pro (will have to wait on the adapters to arrive to test that part), I'll consider it a win. Grand slam if they make the P1 shine.

Still waiting on those Status to show up; have a feeling they might be up your alley, but want to try them myself before saying so definitively.


----------



## jambaj0e

erockg said:


> I returned my PI7.  Couldn't deal with BT drops outdoors.  No patience.  I ordered the PI5 to see if those are any better.



Wow I've had no drops on mine these past few days on my Huawei P40 Pro


----------



## Havre

dasadab said:


> After a week, I returned my B&W I7s.  I loved the sound, but I perhaps got a bad pair because the ANC was not effective at all for me.  I have read a few other comments about the excellent ANC, so I am hoping I just got a bad pair.  I fiddled around with various tips and got solid seals, but still no joy with the ANC.  It was “there”, just really marginal.  Not even close to my AirPod pros or the Sonys.  I had to listen really hard to detect it at all with various frequencies, etc.   Anyway, I will await other ANC comments and probably reorder.



Same here. The ANC is rather useless. For speech it doesn't really remove anything vs. using them without the ANC. For lower frequency sounds there is some effect.


----------



## Canabuc

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Then don't try to justify the expense. You've now seen how far a sub-$100 set of IEMs on regular power can perform relative to what you've tried. If it's truly the sound quality that you're after, then wired is going to be the way to go for you. There is not a single pair of TWS that can match what some of these IEMs are capable of. I'm always a PM away and willing to help whichever choice you decide to make.
> 
> The CF01 arrive tomorrow and I'm genuinely curious if they're going to fit the bill. They're certainly the most expensive of the TWS adapters as far as I've seen. As long as they do decent with the Kanas Pro (will have to wait on the adapters to arrive to test that part), I'll consider it a win. Grand slam if they make the P1 shine.
> 
> Still waiting on those Status to show up; have a feeling they might be up your alley, but want to try them myself before saying so definitively.


Agreed plus if I order now by the time they deliver the xm4 and revised Gemini will be out most likely


----------



## Canabuc

The Fiil and Huawei satisfy my sound and utility need for now.

The freebuds pro multipoint is a godsend. As is their transparency and ANC. Sound is good enough and the fit comfort is great.

Curious to see what will co.e out to improve on sound without failing in those areas.


----------



## CocaCola15 (May 5, 2021)

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Finally had to reach out to Status on their Indiegogo page asking where my Between Pro were. I ordered those dang things back on Valentine's Day and we're definitely past April at this point. Doing what I can to stay optimistic, though.


Seems they got more orders than they bargained for, which is good and bad, I guess. The few prople on the comments section who have them seem to agree they are special. The video reviewers, though not always objective we know, also like them a lot.
It’s very odd having one of the only two pair apparently owned by HF members. It is making me a bit nuts. The fact the other owner also raved is all I got!

Now my main concern is durability. So far so good.


----------



## mainguy

So close to ordering the PI7s when they came in stock today, but £350 for a product which is in essence disposable is a tough pill to swallow. Once those tiny batteries degrade tws really do lose their usefulness. Think ill stick with the airpod pros and save the money for some other gear


----------



## erockg

jambaj0e said:


> Wow I've had no drops on mine these past few days on my Huawei P40 Pro


You're very lucky for sure.  Could be an iOS thing, who knows.  It was annoying.  

Take two.  Trying the PI5s outdoors in a bit.


----------



## michsu

mainguy said:


> So close to ordering the PI7s when they came in stock today, but £350 for a product which is in essence disposable is a tough pill to swallow. Once those tiny batteries degrade tws really do lose their usefulness. Think ill stick with the airpod pros and save the money for some other gear


Test it out on Amazon prime. There’s still a few left there.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

Havre said:


> Same here. The ANC is rather useless. For speech it doesn't really remove anything vs. using them without the ANC. For lower frequency sounds there is some effect.


Wonder whose ANC they licensed? Sounds similar to the attenuation the JBLs are capable of. Cancelling out droning noises (AC, cars passing by) is fine if not good, but vocal and transient noises really don't get cancelled at all. Unfortunately, I think the outer ear helps tremendously with allowing the brain to interpret these sounds, so no in-ear TWS solution is going to be perfect at that sort of noise attenuation. Bose/Sony come really close, though.


Canabuc said:


> Agreed plus if I order now by the time they deliver the xm4 and revised Gemini will be out most likely


And then the next thing will come out and the one after that...

Both fortunately and unfortunately, I've been in this Head-Fi rat race for a really long time and spent a lot more money than any small family reasonably should. I have no other real hobbies in life, so this is where my fun money goes. There will always be something late and great that we want to look forward to; I think if you can make it a goal of using the gear you have now to really understand how to utilize EQ effectively, you will find yourself leaps and bounds ahead of where you are now in a year's time in terms of knowing where your money should go next.

And that bar is really, really low in terms of cost these days compared to where it used to be. Anybody remember how much the ER-4P, Triple-Fi 10, and Shure SE530 ran when they were new? Those were arguably the pinnacle of in-ear tech for their respective time and I'm pretty sure each commanded at least a $300 investment for the IEMs alone. Look at what you can get for less than $100 now.

The TWS market will need time to catch up. I like what HiBy's playing around with regarding the adjustable crossover. I'm still learning how to adjust that thing for best effect, but I find it admirable that HiBy's willing to let the end user mess around with those settings on their own. Combine that with a 10-band EQ that goes up to 16KHz and you have a good amount of tweakability. These are definitely not the type of TWS one should buy if they're looking for a fuss-free experience. That's why I had to keep them. Much like the MT, I'm not ready to give up on them quite yet.

Plus, they're really dang comfy with the Final TWS tips on. A required upgrade, as far as I'm concerned. About to try them with the EPro horns...


----------



## Darkestred

Canabuc said:


> As I have now started to really enjoy the sound of an I EM, I kind of feel like using a true wireless earbud is only worthwhile now when I am on the goal I hear exercising or perhaps when using a microphone for a zoom call or some thing else. Because of that the things that are more important to me our comfort and fit the ability to not get ruined from sweat good sound and battery life.
> 
> I just don’t think with the current offerings I could justify the expense of three or $400 for something that is not gonna get use that often for me. I think once Bluetooth low energy becomes the new adopted standard and that the transmission quality improves both in connectivity as well as data transmission, I can then revisit improved through wireless earbuds that can give me in ear monitor sound while still being wireless.



Unless there is a huge breakthrough and TWS is being offered for 1/3 the price of its wired counterparts - i agree.  I would never critically listen to songs with TWS but they are great for as you mentioned, working out, going for a walk or when you dont want to deal with portable audio, cables and wires.

When the new codecs come out and the technology matures and we see higher-end offerings i dont think i could ever justify a 5,6,7,800+ tws solution, especially if the battery is not removable.  It will happen, though.


----------



## tracyrick

Hey Misery, ref. MT:  Which ePro tips are you using exactly? Amazon has 3 models. Looks like TW00 fits Noble Falcon. I also see EP00 and EP01.

The stock MT silicone tips are borderline OK for me on runs (I've been going back and forth on whether to return my MTs or not). I do find myself trying to push back them in occasionally. And they are no good in the gym, not enough isolation. I tried the SpinFitCP360 and they were a bust. Maybe I'll try ePro next.

Ideally I would just use foamies except I can't find a foamie fit for the MT. Plus, while foamie isolation, fit, and bass enhancement is nice, the sound is too congested and muddied for good listening. I use Comply 600 foamies on my M1s in the gym for the isolation but I don't enjoy the resulting treble attenuation. The never ending quest for the perfect ear tip...


----------



## Mr.Toad

erockg said:


> You're very lucky for sure.  Could be an iOS thing, who knows.  It was annoying.
> 
> Take two.  Trying the PI5s outdoors in a bit.


Not just iOS, happens for me on Android, too. It has improved somewhat after a hard reset on the PI7s.


----------



## mainguy

erockg said:


> You're very lucky for sure.  Could be an iOS thing, who knows.  It was annoying.
> 
> Take two.  Trying the PI5s outdoors in a bit.


ive heard they have a very different signature to the PI7 suprisingly (majorhifi review)


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

tracyrick said:


> Hey Misery, ref. MT:  Which ePro tips are you using exactly? Amazon has 3 models. Looks like TW00 fits Noble Falcon. I also see EP00 and EP01.
> 
> The stock MT silicone tips are borderline OK for me on runs (I've been going back and forth on whether to return my MTs or not). I do find myself trying to push back them in occasionally. And they are no good in the gym, not enough isolation. I tried the SpinFitCP360 and they were a bust. Maybe I'll try ePro next.
> 
> Ideally I would just use foamies except I can't find a foamie fit for the MT. Plus, while foamie isolation, fit, and bass enhancement is nice, the sound is too congested and muddied for good listening. I use Comply 600 foamies on my M1s in the gym for the isolation but I don't enjoy the resulting treble attenuation. The never ending quest for the perfect ear tip...


I'm using whatever came stock with the Noble Falcon 1, which means I'm pretty sure they're the TW00. Looks like the other two models are meant for IEMs with different nozzle diameters and probably won't work for our purposes.

Tried to use the newer iteration that come with the NFP, but they sit too loosely on just about every TWS I have here and it does translate into a funky FR due to the leakage. TW00 is the way to go; I just hope they're identical to those NF1 pack-ins. They're certainly branded as such.


----------



## Havre (May 5, 2021)

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Wonder whose ANC they licensed? Sounds similar to the attenuation the JBLs are capable of. Cancelling out droning noises (AC, cars passing by) is fine if not good, but vocal and transient noises really don't get cancelled at all. Unfortunately, I think the outer ear helps tremendously with allowing the brain to interpret these sounds, so no in-ear TWS solution is going to be perfect at that sort of noise attenuation. Bose/Sony come really close, though.



Been testing it a bit now - and in front of the TV listening to "normal sounds" I can't tell if the ANC is on or not - it is that bad. So for now I'm just going to assume the pair I got are not working as they should. I didn't expect all that much from the ANC, but this is ridiculous.

Sound quality is thankfully a lot better than the ANC. First TWS in-ear that have impressed me. But I bought them partly for flights so got to get this ANC sorted.


----------



## mainguy

Havre said:


> Been testing it a bit now - and in front of the TV listening to "normal sounds" I can't tell if the ANC is on or not - it is that bad. So for now I'm just going to assume the pair I got are not working as they should. I didn't expect all that much from the ANC, but this is ridiculous.
> 
> Sound quality is thankfully a lot better than the ANC. First TWS in-ear that have impressed me. But I bought them partly for flights so got to get this ANC sorted.


This seriously makes me doubt pro reviews lol, expert reviews say the anc is brilliant. Yet nobody here agrees, hmmm


----------



## michsu

Does Bowers know about the ANC issue? Can it be fixed through firmware?


----------



## Havre

mainguy said:


> This seriously makes me doubt pro reviews lol, expert reviews say the anc is brilliant. Yet nobody here agrees, hmmm



I don't know. If the ANC had been poor I would have drawn the same conclusion. But this is so bad I just can't believe anyone would have sold the product this way - and it is inconceivable to me that anyone reviewing a pair like the way mine are currently operating wouldn't notice how poor the ANC is.

Will be interesting to see - because they are definitely a keeper based on the sound - and for me the fit.


----------



## erockg

mainguy said:


> ive heard they have a very different signature to the PI7 suprisingly (majorhifi review)


In my unprofessional opinion the sound signatures are not drastically different.  I also do not find the PI5 bass heavy at all.  Not to my ears.  Maybe I had a defective unit with the PI7s, but on the PI7 I listened to a certain track that they couldn't handle.  There was static every time it hit a certain note, yet all my other tws didn't have this issue.  I just played that same track on the PI5 and they held up perfect.  Very strange.  All that said, if these drop out while on a walk today, it'll be very disappointing.


----------



## erockg

Mr.Toad said:


> Not just iOS, happens for me on Android, too. It has improved somewhat after a hard reset on the PI7s.


Same, it was okay for a bit and then came back.  I'm on the PI5s today.  We'll see...


----------



## erockg

Havre said:


> I don't know. If the ANC had been poor I would have drawn the same conclusion. But this is so bad I just can't believe anyone would have sold the product this way - and it is inconceivable to me that anyone reviewing a pair like the way mine are currently operating wouldn't notice how poor the ANC is.
> 
> Will be interesting to see - because they are definitely a keeper based on the sound - and for me the fit.


See, I'm only having BT issues.  ANC is great in my environment.  No, not over-the-ear headphones great, but definitely solid.  All my fans and air filters are gone, and any traffic noise outside my window is gone.  I've had way too many TWS buds and the ANC has performed just as well as the APP, MTW2 etc.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

Havre said:


> Been testing it a bit now - and in front of the TV listening to "normal sounds" I can't tell if the ANC is on or not - it is that bad. So for now I'm just going to assume the pair I got are not working as they should. I didn't expect all that much from the ANC, but this is ridiculous.
> 
> Sound quality is thankfully a lot better than the ANC. First TWS in-ear that have impressed me. But I bought them partly for flights so got to get this ANC sorted.


Hopefully they just need to adjust some algos and push a firmware update to improve that, but sounds very similar in "quality" to the ANC from the JBL Club Pro+ and Earfun Free Pro.


michsu said:


> Does Bowers know about the ANC issue? Can it be fixed through firmware?


Paradoxical question. Kinda like how I wonder if we'd ever have gotten the updates we did on the MT if I hadn't nagged their CEO via the email included in that box. Better to just be a squeaky wheel to B&W if owners want any hope of seeing this stuff improve.


erockg said:


> There was static every time it hit a certain note, yet all my other tws didn't have this issue.  I just played that same track on the PI5 and they held up perfect.  Very strange.  All that said, if these drop out while on a walk today, it'll be very disappointing.


Was this on the iPhone? Sounds like the same kind of artifacting I was hearing on the NFP in aptX Adaptive. May be an issue of signal bandwidth or the internal amplifiers on the PI7 need some serious adjustment.

EPro horns are working out great on the WH3. Not quite as pillow-soft as the Final TWS were, but they do provide for a very secure fit that I can achieve single-handedly and without having to tug on my ear during insertion. These seem very dependent on fit, like most earbuds tend to be. If you decide to take the plunge on these, keep in mind that you may spend a while figuring out the best positioning for comfort and SQ; both are affected by misalignment pretty drastically here.

Also tried Symbio W Hybrids on them. Not a fan. Super comfy, but sucks out all the midrange. I think the secret to the WH3 is finding tips that are as short as possible, yet still seal well in the ear. Spiral Dots also cause a pretty drastic shift in FR, though my ears seem to adjust quicker to the change than I had with the Symbio. Neither will fit in the case, though, so I don't see much practicality with either pair; just stick with the EPro TW00.


----------



## erockg

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Hopefully they just need to adjust some algos and push a firmware update to improve that, but sounds very similar in "quality" to the ANC from the JBL Club Pro+ and Earfun Free Pro.
> 
> Paradoxical question. Kinda like how I wonder if we'd ever have gotten the updates we did on the MT if I hadn't nagged their CEO via the email included in that box. Better to just be a squeaky wheel to B&W if owners want any hope of seeing this stuff improve.
> 
> ...


Yeah, iPhone 12 and another person on here said it's happening with his Android.  Sooo... who knows.  

I'm using Spinfits on my NFPs.  But I get this strange issue with my right bud that if I don't have a certain seal, the volume cuts out.  Very strange.  May do a reset.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

erockg said:


> Yeah, iPhone 12 and another person on here said it's happening with his Android.  Sooo... who knows.
> 
> I'm using Spinfits on my NFPs.  But I get this strange issue with my right bud that if I don't have a certain seal, the volume cuts out.  Very strange.  May do a reset.


That is strange. Fingers crossed a reset helps. Could also try forgetting the device in your BT list and re-pair them. Don't quote me on this, but I think they automatically revert to pairing mode if they lose their primary connection. If not, resetting isn't too tough. Good luck!

Also just received the following update from Status:


At least there's a definite window. I'll live with that, even if the response does sound a little canned. I imagine this is only the 5 millionth "where are my TWS" messages they've received, so I do have to commend them on maintaining their sanity.


----------



## assassin10000 (May 5, 2021)

tracyrick said:


> Ideally I would just use foamies except I can't find a foamie fit for the MT. Plus, while foamie isolation, fit, and bass enhancement is nice, the sound is too congested and muddied for good listening. I use Comply 600 foamies on my M1s in the gym for the isolation but I don't enjoy the resulting treble attenuation. The never ending quest for the perfect ear tip...



Not sure what size ear tips you use but perhaps using the Tennmak tips would work? They have a 'skin' that doesn't attenuate treble like open cell foamies like the others do. You may have to cut them shorter to close the case, depending on the TWS/case. 4.5mm or 5.0mm bore available iirc.
https://www.amazon.com/TENNMAK-Earphone-Mushroom-Earphones-4-5mm-Small/dp/B0828XP9RM/

Not my pic, from Amazon cust:




There's also the ikko iplanet or misodiko TWS pro style tips that fit more TWS cases. Also has a 'skin' over the foam. Their small are more of a medium small for Ikko (11.5mm) and medium for misodiko (12.0mm) when I measured them.





The generic air pods pro tips can be used if the plastic app adapters are removed from them. My 2nd favorite foam tip for TWS. Also skinned.









And my favorite tips for comfort are generic 'ball' style ts400 tips from AliExpress. They have 4.5mm (t200 size) and 5.0mm (t400) sizes, these have standard open cell foam. Fortunately with the rounded tip they don't block/attenuate the highs as much as the standard style tips (imo).


----------



## MaccaUK (May 5, 2021)

assassin10000 said:


> Not sure what size ear tips you use but perhaps using the Tennmak tips would work? They have a 'skin' that doesn't attenuate treble like open cell foamies like the others do. You may have to cut them shorter to close the case, depending on the TWS/case. 4.5mm or 5.0mm bore available iirc.
> https://www.amazon.com/TENNMAK-Earphone-Mushroom-Earphones-4-5mm-Small/dp/B0828XP9RM/
> 
> Not my pic, from Amazon cust:
> ...


I bought the Ikko iplanet for the MT to see if they’d fit in the temperamental case. Alas, the MT’s went back due to all the other issues I was having with them before they turned up. Fit well on the AKG N400 and B&W Pi7’s and sound decent without bloating the bass too much. Have since settled on some Sony Triple Comfort buds for both which are more comfortable and sounds even better to my ears.

I also seem to be one of the only ones on this thread that's completely happy with the Pi7's. I've experienced none of the Bluetooth issues reported and certainly for my ears the ANC is comparable with my AKG's and only slightly less effective than the Sony’s. I’m not commuting currently so the ANC is off most of the time which is also helping with battery life. I’ve had them almost 2 weeks now and have had ample opportunity to do some b2b listening with a variety of other IEM’s, TWS & Over Ears, and honestly I’m  liking these as much as most. All are paired to my Hiby R6 2020 so delivering a source sound signature that’s the same which makes comparison relatively straightforward. I’m sure firmware can fix any glitches including the only gripe I’ve got in that the app chops of the battery level display in half so can’t really see how much juice is left unless I use standard Bluetooth settings on android...........


----------



## tma6 (May 5, 2021)

Canabuc said:


> I have been out of this thread for a little while as I have started to dip my toes in the ear monitor world. I have come to love the Moondrop Arias and perhaps at one point I will consider buying true wireless adaptors for them.
> 
> that said a couple things sort of surprise me. There was buzz couple months ago with a leaked image of the new Sony‘s and here we are now in May and there has been no further news. When I come to think about it they really started the shift towards adding quality active noise cancelling to an earbud with premium sound. The XM threes nearly 2 years later are still rated among the best for noise cancelling and sound quality and where they to have wireless charging and we’re less bulky would probably be still among the best.
> 
> ...



I.. found this out the hard way and now I’m deep down the IEM rabbit hole. Ended up w the U12Ts as my end game for now, but things definitely got out of hand lol. You can PM me too if you want any recs.

Kinda why I settled on the Jabra 85ts for my tws. They do everything pretty well - solid sq, good battery life, good call quality, excellent anc and transparency, controls for everything, and nice compact case and size of buds. Nothing spectacular in the sound dept except for nice bass impact and texture, and above-average staging and imaging, but they make the fewest compromises w the best executed features out of anything else I’ve tried so far.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

MaccaUK said:


> I bought the Ikko iplanet for the MT to see if they’d fit in the temperamental case. Alas, the MT’s went back due to all the other issues I was having with them before they turned up. Fit well on the AKG N400 and B&W Pi7’s and sound decent without bloating the bass too much. Have since settled on some Sony Triple Comfort buds for both which are more comfortable and sounds even better to my ears.
> 
> I also seem to be one of the only ones on this thread that's completely happy with the Pi7's. I've experienced none of the Bluetooth issues reported and certainly for my ears the ANC is comparable with my AKG's and only slightly less effective than the Sony’s. I’m not commuting currently so the ANC is off most of the time which is also helping with battery life. I’ve had them almost 2 weeks now and have had ample opportunity to do some b2b listening with a variety of other IEM’s, TWS & Over Ears, and honestly I’m  liking these as much as most. All are paired to my Hiby R6 2020 so delivering a source sound signature that’s the same which makes comparison relatively straightforward. I’m sure firmware can fix any glitches including the only gripe I’ve got in that the app chops of the battery level display in half so can’t really see how much juice is left unless I use standard Bluetooth settings on android...........


The good thing about personal preferences is it's okay if they're not the same as everybody else's. If the PI7 rock your socks off, awesome! The R6 2020's certainly spec'd fantastically and it sounds like you've got a nice, stable connection.


tma6 said:


> I.. found this out the hard way and now I’m deep down the IEM rabbit hole. Ended up w the U12Ts as my end game for now, but things definitely got out of hand lol. You can PM me too if you want any recs.
> 
> Kinda why I settled on the Jabra 85ts for my tws. They do everything pretty well - solid sq, good battery life, good call quality, excellent anc, nice compact case and size of buds. Nothing spectacular in the sound dept except for above average staging and imaging, but they make the fewest compromises w the best executed features out of anything else I’ve tried so far.


I have drawers full of budget-fi stuff and have merely made it into midrange territory. Not ready to go into the kilobuck pairs yet, though I finally feel like I have sources that would be capable of doing them justice. U12t are definitely on the "win the lotto" short list, as are the FIBAE 7, MEST MkII, Spiral Ear SE5 Ultimate/SE6 Edge, and EE Odin. Add those together, and you could take the same amount of money and buy a new car with it.

This can be a really expensive hobby without a little restraint


----------



## Mr.Toad

mainguy said:


> This seriously makes me doubt pro reviews lol, expert reviews say the anc is brilliant. Yet nobody here agrees, hmmm


The ANC is about on a par with competitors - in ear. Which is to say, not bad for casual use but not great for flying. I would take the  wh-1000xm4 for that.


----------



## tracyrick

erockg - Ref. SpinFit, you are not crazy, I had the same issue. I had sound cut-out and just strange fit issues overall. I only tried on two runs so far, so I'm waiting to try a few more times before being sure what the problem is. Definitely having more problems than with the MT stock ear tips, when I thought the SpinFit would actually work better. Ugh. My guess is the pivot feature of the SpinFit is creating its own issue by blocking sound as it pivots? I need to experiment more.

assassin - Thanks for the tips, pun intended. Now I'm worried that to try all the ear tips out there I'll end up spending more than the cost of the earphones! I think I'll try Misery's ePro recommendation first and go from there.

Ref. charging case fit - I learned right away with the Melomania 1s not to worry about trying to fit my earbuds back into the charging case with my Comply tips (I ordered Comply's within 5 mins. of trying the stock silicone tips). I just take the foamies off and on each time I put them back in the case. It's easiest with a shirt vs. using your fingers. I also tried NOT putting them back in the case every time I use them, but this created connection/confusion issues for the earbuds so I gave up on that idea. So I'm not worried about any tips I try on MT not fitting in the case.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

tracyrick said:


> erockg - Ref. SpinFit, you are not crazy, I had the same issue. I had sound cut-out and just strange fit issues overall. I only tried on two runs so far, so I'm waiting to try a few more times before being sure what the problem is. Definitely having more problems than with the MT stock ear tips, when I thought the SpinFit would actually work better. Ugh. My guess is the pivot feature of the SpinFit is creating its own issue by blocking sound as it pivots? I need to experiment more.
> 
> assassin - Thanks for the tips, pun intended. Now I'm worried that to try all the ear tips out there I'll end up spending more than the cost of the earphones! I think I'll try Misery's ePro recommendation first and go from there.
> 
> Ref. charging case fit - I learned right away with the Melomania 1s not to worry about trying to fit my earbuds back into the charging case with my Comply tips (I ordered Comply's within 5 mins. of trying the stock silicone tips). I just take the foamies off and on each time I put them back in the case. It's easiest with a shirt vs. using your fingers. I also tried NOT putting them back in the case every time I use them, but this created connection/confusion issues for the earbuds so I gave up on that idea. So I'm not worried about any tips I try on MT not fitting in the case.


Sounds like the stem is folding in on itself somehow. Can happen when you're trying to use a larger tip than you should be. Some of the fancier brands have in-between sizes (like SS, SM, ML, and LL) for this exact reason. Looks like you're already on track to give the TW00 a shot; ordered a couple pairs myself today since I needed printer ink anyway.

Good news is there's enough height in that MT case to sit a spare pair of tips as long as they're short enough:


Apologies for the white balance issues. Probably too much dynamic range for my phone's camera.


----------



## Havre

Mr.Toad said:


> The ANC is about on a par with competitors - in ear. Which is to say, not bad for casual use but not great for flying. I would take the  wh-1000xm4 for that.



Would you say you without a doubt notice when it is turned on?

I just had another funny issue with mine. So I have used it with my S10+ phone and the connection is fine. Some small hiccups, but that has been me leaving the phone in the sofa walking over to the kitchen etc. Then I tested it on my Fiio X5 3rd and the signal is absolutely useless. Impossible to listen to. I know from before that using the X5 3rd with bluetooth isn't perfect, but I have never experienced anything like this. I used it with my Jabra 75t and I would occasionally lose the signal for half a second every now and then. When I connect it to my Denon receiver I will also occasionally have issues with the signal. So I'm starting to wonder if there is something more wrong in general with my set.

Sent B&W a question through their homepage. To see if this is something (the ANC) which is a known problem for them or not.


----------



## Mr.Toad (May 5, 2021)

Havre said:


> Would you say you without a doubt notice when it is turned on?
> 
> I just had another funny issue with mine. So I have used it with my S10+ phone and the connection is fine. Some small hiccups, but that has been me leaving the phone in the sofa walking over to the kitchen etc. Then I tested it on my Fiio X5 3rd and the signal is absolutely useless. Impossible to listen to. I know from before that using the X5 3rd with bluetooth isn't perfect, but I have never experienced anything like this. I used it with my Jabra 75t and I would occasionally lose the signal for half a second every now and then. When I connect it to my Denon receiver I will also occasionally have issues with the signal. So I'm starting to wonder if there is something more wrong in general with my set.
> 
> Sent B&W a question through their homepage. To see if this is something (the ANC) which is a known problem for them or not.


Yes, I can definitely tell a difference between ANC on or off. More on lower frequencies, though, particularly low droning sounds.


----------



## Havre

Thanks. Kind of good news I guess - another indication that something is just wrong with mine. Ideally just a firmware update. Will be interesting to hear what B&W got to say. My local shop is usually quite reasonable to deal with also when it comes to quality issues, but I was the first one to get a PI7 delivered so I don't think they got much experience just yet on possible common issues.


----------



## MaccaUK

Havre said:


> Would you say you without a doubt notice when it is turned on?
> 
> I just had another funny issue with mine. So I have used it with my S10+ phone and the connection is fine. Some small hiccups, but that has been me leaving the phone in the sofa walking over to the kitchen etc. Then I tested it on my Fiio X5 3rd and the signal is absolutely useless. Impossible to listen to. I know from before that using the X5 3rd with bluetooth isn't perfect, but I have never experienced anything like this. I used it with my Jabra 75t and I would occasionally lose the signal for half a second every now and then. When I connect it to my Denon receiver I will also occasionally have issues with the signal. So I'm starting to wonder if there is something more wrong in general with my set.
> 
> Sent B&W a question through their homepage. To see if this is something (the ANC) which is a known problem for them or not.


Can definitely tell when ANC is on. Works pretty well but I’m not expecting on-par performance to my Sony or AKG over ears.

The Fiio only supports Bluetooth 4.0, so maybe they don’t play nice with older versions? My Hiby R5 is only Bluetooth 4.2 and didn’t perform as well as the R6 2020 with 5.0.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic (May 5, 2021)

MaccaUK said:


> Can definitely tell when ANC is on. Works pretty well but I’m not expecting on-par performance to my Sony or AKG over ears.
> 
> The Fiio only supports Bluetooth 4.0, so maybe they don’t play nice with older versions? My Hiby R5 is only Bluetooth 4.2 and didn’t perform as well as the R6 2020 with 5.0.


If they conform to the TWS+ standard, it needs at least a Snapdragon 855. Most DAPs are still in the 600 or younger series, and both your 2020 R6 and the iBasso DX300 seem to sport the Snapdragon 660. with the iBasso DX300 being the most capable (for a DAP) processor on the market at the moment. Your R6 2020, for example, runs off the Snapdragon 660. A&K doesn't even disclose what silicon they're using, fwiw, and their UI is highly customized, so I have no way of digging into the settings to find out for myself.

The BT generation (4.1 vs 5) may make a slight difference, but I think implementation, the backend of the OS, and how many apps/devices are being managed simultaneously in your device play a major role. Your unit is built completely around sound quality with HiBy at the helm; never got around to testing BT on the R5 Saber, but man did that thing sound fantastic out of the balanced jack. Can only imagine how that R6 2020 sounds.

Back on the stock WH3 tips, this time in Large. Woah, what a difference. These TWS really don't like tips with a long bore. Not sure whether I prefer these or the EPro horns at the moment. Will have to do more testing before I can come to any conclusions.


----------



## dasadab

MaccaUK said:


> Can definitely tell when ANC is on. Works pretty well but I’m not expecting on-par performance to my Sony or AKG over ears.
> 
> The Fiio only supports Bluetooth 4.0, so maybe they don’t play nice with older versions? My Hiby R5 is only Bluetooth 4.2 and didn’t perform as well as the R6 2020 with 5.0.


I tested mine next to a room HEPA type filter and next to a dryer, and just walking around the neighborhood for several days with frequent damnable leaf blowers (the blight of existence, or close to it) and I could not detect any, I repeat, any ANC that wasn’t super subtle.  Not within a mile of my AirPod pros or the Sonys.  I have the over the ear Sonys for airplanes—XM4s.  They are fantastic.  I wasn't expecting anything close to that perfomance, but I was expecting something that made me aware that there even was ANC.  So perhaps my pair, just sent back, was defective.


----------



## tracyrick

Whoa! MT just popped up as an option on the Comply compatibility site with this foamie result:
TrueGrip™ TW-200-A​https://www.complyfoam.com/products/twzz-truegrip-1

Previously there was only Melomania 1, no MT to select. So previously no known foamie solution for MT that I'm aware of.

Now I have to decide if I want to go foamie with MT or not. Will I be back to great isolation but too much treble attenuation like I have with my M1 Comply 600 solution? These foamies don't go deep, so maybe they won't attenuate as much? Maybe have to buy these and the ePro and compare...


----------



## bladefd

The MT have been aggravating lately. The right bud to be exact. I can't get the charging light to stay on too often. Each night, I have 50/50 percent chance of seeing it 100% charged or not charged, and it's always the right side. *Always*.

I don't hear a click when putting the buds in after a listening session. Left side consistently begins charging without any issue though. Right side sometimes starts blinking red light for charging, but if I check the next afternoon, the right bud often doesn't light up when I open the case just to check (left always lights up as soon as I open the case).

I think it's time for warranty replacement. I'm getting bit annoyed lately when I see right bud is not charged about half the time.


----------



## bladefd

tracyrick said:


> Whoa! MT just popped up as an option on the Comply compatibility site with this foamie result:
> TrueGrip™ TW-200-A​https://www.complyfoam.com/products/twzz-truegrip-1
> 
> Previously there was only Melomania 1, no MT to select. So previously no known foamie solution for MT that I'm aware of.
> ...


Comply are very good but unfortunately don't last long. Few months max if you take good care of them. I guess that's always going to be the issue with foam tips - silicone typically lasts much longer.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

tracyrick said:


> Whoa! MT just popped up as an option on the Comply compatibility site with this foamie result:
> TrueGrip™ TW-200-A​https://www.complyfoam.com/products/twzz-truegrip-1
> 
> Previously there was only Melomania 1, no MT to select. So previously no known foamie solution for MT that I'm aware of.
> ...


Oooh nice! I don't have the TrueGrip, but I do have the heat-sensitive foamies and those work really well with the MT. They're a little broader on top than the ones you pictured, though, so I'm not sure how that plus the debris filter will mess with the sound signature. Keep in mind I have to remove those foamies in order for the charging contacts to properly align, but there's room enough on that shelf in between each bud at least.

Got them via eBay, but pretty sure these are the same product. Really, REALLY comfortable. Zero pressure on the ear canal so far.


bladefd said:


> The MT have been aggravating lately. The right bud to be exact. I can't get the charging light to stay on too often. Each night, I have 50/50 percent chance of seeing it 100% charged or not charged, and it's always the right side. *Always*.
> 
> I don't hear a click when putting the buds in after a listening session. Left side consistently begins charging without any issue though. Right side sometimes starts blinking red light for charging, but if I check the next afternoon, the right bud often doesn't light up when I open the case just to check (left always lights up as soon as I open the case).
> 
> I think it's time for warranty replacement. I'm getting bit annoyed lately when I see right bud is not charged about half the time.


Yeah, something funky has been happening with my Right bud as well. Seems to follow whichever bud is the "dominant" one, in my case.

Not quite putting them on the bench; instead, just making them the dedicated SR25 TWS buds. I figure if they manage to remain stable on that DAP, chances are there's something at the phone level that's been screwing with me. Regarding the charging issue, maybe it would warrant a quick clean of the charging contacts? If that's what you want to do, there's two ways to accomplish it:

Grab a Q-tip and some isopropyl alcohol (91% preferred, but 70% is fine). _DO NOT_ use rubbing alcohol; it will leave a residue, which is the exact opposite of what we're looking for. Dab the head of the Q-tip into a capful of isopropyl alcohol and gently wipe the charging contacts (both in the case and on the device). Isopropyl alcohol, if properly compounded, should dry completely residue-free and leave your electrical contacts nice and sparkly. We used to do this to remove all sorts of nasties from printed circuit boards, especially leftover flux.
If the idea of liquids next to your electronics is too much to handle, just grab a rubber eraser (like the one at the end of a No.2 pencil) and gently "erase" all of the metal contacts. Since this rubber is mildly abrasive, it should kind of "exfoliate" the surface of the metal, removing any oxidation. You will have to brush off whatever rubber is left over, but should end up with a pretty clean surface if you did it right.
In either regard, sounds like it's a contact issue. Maybe it's firmware and I'm off, but this might be worth messaging James about. Wouldn't hurt to ask when he plans to join the party, either. Said he was waiting on vendor verification a while ago; have to assume it'd be done by now.


----------



## bladefd

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Oooh nice! I don't have the TrueGrip, but I do have the heat-sensitive foamies and those work really well with the MT. They're a little broader on top than the ones you pictured, though, so I'm not sure how that plus the debris filter will mess with the sound signature. Keep in mind I have to remove those foamies in order for the charging contacts to properly align, but there's room enough on that shelf in between each bud at least.
> 
> Got them via eBay, but pretty sure these are the same product. Really, REALLY comfortable. Zero pressure on the ear canal so far.
> 
> ...


Do your buds click when you place them in? Like magnet


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

bladefd said:


> Do your buds click when you place them in? Like magnet


Only with the stock tips, Final TWS, or E-Pro horns. I usually drop them in from about an inch up and they click in place about 85% of the time.

Wish I had a better answer than that, but to be more direct: yes, I can get them to click in place.


----------



## bladefd

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Only with the stock tips, Final TWS, or E-Pro horns. I usually drop them in from about an inch up and they click in place about 85% of the time.
> 
> Wish I had a better answer than that, but to be more direct: yes, I can get them to click in place.


So you might be right. Mine used to click couple months ago but don't anymore. Something must be blocking the contacts. I will see if I have isopropyl alcohol somewhere in the house. If that doesn't solve the issue then RMA time =[


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

bladefd said:


> So you might be right. Mine used to click couple months ago but don't anymore. Something must be blocking the contacts. I will see if I have isopropyl alcohol somewhere in the house. If that doesn't solve the issue then RMA time =[


And a RMA may be warranted. Now that I've thoroughly cleaned this thing, I can tell how long those contact pins are in the case. Any misalignment on those would probably be an issue. Can't fix a bent pin with a firmware update, unfortunately.

They may ask you to try this in troubleshooting, so in order to get ahead of them, you may want to try unpairing the MT and re-pairing to the Left bud first this time (or right, if the left was your previous dominant).


----------



## erockg

Three mile walk and nothing but dropouts with the B&W PI5.  No, I don't have a metal plate in my head.  What.  This is awful.  I can't even adjust them in my ears without them pausing and/or losing BT connection.  Something is definitely up.  I've reset, repaired, rebooted, you name it.  Sure, they are okay if I'm sitting at my desk, but what is the fun in that???


----------



## dwine

MW08 owners: any tips on getting a tighter fit? I have on the x-s ear tips on and they definitely have a seal, but I can feel them moving around in my ear and becoming loose as I walk around. Bigger ear tips feel just as insecure with a worse seal. Loving the sound so far, though!


----------



## senorbroom

I read online that the Spinfit CP-240 can help with the Buds Pro fit (https://www.spinfiteartip.com/en/product-detail/36). I purchased the medium size and they do nothing but comically pop out of my ears. The fit is way too large and far, far worse than the standard tips. After following the Samsung guidelines for insertion they fit somewhat better but still feel precarious. I have purchased a cheap pair of Aliexpress silicone replacements and hope they might be shaped slightly differently (https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005002573061485.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.65344c4dEyS0MD).


----------



## michsu

I wrote on their Amazon page and posed it like a question saying there are Bluetooth dropouts and bad ANC and to check the HeadFi forums for more issues. I hope they can find this place. There was a limit on how much you can write.


----------



## Mr.Toad

erockg said:


> Three mile walk and nothing but dropouts with the B&W PI5.  No, I don't have a metal plate in my head.  What.  This is awful.  I can't even adjust them in my ears without them pausing and/or losing BT connection.  Something is definitely up.  I've reset, repaired, rebooted, you name it.  Sure, they are okay if I'm sitting at my desk, but what is the fun in that???


Thanks for the update, that's annoying to say the least.


----------



## erockg

Mr.Toad said:


> Thanks for the update, that's annoying to say the least.


It really is a bummer.  Literally just sitting on the couch and if I rest my chin with my left arm, the buds cut out sometimes.  Also, I was just on a call where the callers voice was going from the right to left bud and back at times.  I might call B&W tomorrow or chalk this up to another return.


----------



## cresny (May 5, 2021)

erockg said:


> Three mile walk and nothing but dropouts with the B&W PI5.  No, I don't have a metal plate in my head.  What.  This is awful.  I can't even adjust them in my ears without them pausing and/or losing BT connection.  Something is definitely up.  I've reset, repaired, rebooted, you name it.  Sure, they are okay if I'm sitting at my desk, but what is the fun in that???


Do you have pause on removal? When this happened with the B&W PX earlier firmware the "fix" was to disable that.


----------



## erockg

cresny said:


> Do you have pause on removal? When this happened with the B&W PX earlier firmware the "fix" was to disable that.


Yep.  Tried that too while I was walking but maybe it didn’t take.  I remember when the PX had that issue.  Sennheiser Momentums too.  Crazy.  I don’t see a sensor on the buds that activates wear detect, so not sure the tech used.  Maybe it’s just under the plastic.  I’m going to do the old unpair, reboot, repair then turn off wear detect yet again and see if that helps.


----------



## hmscott (May 8, 2021)

Tranya have come out with a new version, the T10B - and they finally released 2 months after I pre-ordered them, and the T10B sounds even better than the T10.  The T10B does have more bass, but the whole frequency range holds together much better than the original.  A new favorite.

The only way I can tell the original T10 and new T10B apart is by the screen hole size on the end of the nozzle.  The T10 has larger round holes and the T10B has many more small holes.

The other way to tell them apart is the Bass + wider soundstage of the new T10B's.  

Tranya T10B
https://tranya.com/products/t10-b
New Manual: https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0262/8855/4033/files/NEW_T10_-20201215.pdf?v=1616059744

The 2 pair I ordered came in the original T10 box, but the sticker on the back of the box says "Tranya T10B"


----------



## clerkpalmer

erockg said:


> It really is a bummer.  Literally just sitting on the couch and if I rest my chin with my left arm, the buds cut out sometimes.  Also, I was just on a call where the callers voice was going from the right to left bud and back at times.  I might call B&W tomorrow or chalk this up to another return.


Add one more. Used them tonight exercising. Phone was about 2 feet away from me on the floor next to my rower. Numerous dropouts. Using iPhone and the phone was on my right side. Shame. For $400 that just can’t happen. Too bad. Between the MW08 muddiness and this, consider me disappointed. I’ll give it a couple of days but this likely isn’t something that is gonna magically get better.


----------



## erockg

clerkpalmer said:


> Add one more. Used them tonight exercising. Phone was about 2 feet away from me on the floor next to my rower. Numerous dropouts. Using iPhone and the phone was on my right side. Shame. For $400 that just can’t happen. Too bad. Between the MW08 muddiness and this, consider me disappointed. I’ll give it a couple of days but this likely isn’t something that is gonna magically get better.


Awful.  Especially since we waited soooo long for these.


----------



## clerkpalmer

erockg said:


> Awful.  Especially since we waited soooo long for these.


This doesn’t feel like a firmware thing either. This is probably a design flaw. I give them credit for pushing the envelope on the technology but they seemed to have dropped the ball on the basics. Maybe they will respond to someone here that they are working on a fix.


----------



## michsu (May 5, 2021)

So what’s the one to get now? I’ll test it out, but I’m going to return it with all the bad reviews. That’s so sad. Is the Sennheiser Momentum any good? Noble Falcon Pro? That seems to be similar to the sound of this one.

People have been buying the PI7 from Amazon. When I got mine, there were 10 available, and now there are only 2 available. Lucky I ordered the Status between pro, but if that’s a lie too, then I’ll just stick with what I have.


----------



## michsu

Saw this on YouTube just now for the PI7. I haven’t watched it yet, but it may help?


----------



## erockg

michsu said:


> So what’s the one to get now? I’ll test it out, but I’m going to return it with all the bad reviews. That’s so sad. Is the Sennheiser Momentum any good? Noble Falcon Pro? That seems to be similar to the sound of this one.
> 
> People have been buying the PI7 from Amazon. When I got mine, there were 10 available, and now there are only 2 available. Lucky I ordered the Status between pro, but if that’s a lie too, then I’ll just stick with what I have.


I highly recommend the NFPs or the KEFs.  Both solid.  Stay away from the B&Ws right now IMO.


----------



## michsu

erockg said:


> I highly recommend the NFPs or the KEFs.  Both solid.  Stay away from the B&Ws right now IMO.


Unfortunately, I ordered it on Amazon yesterday and is coming Friday. Let’s see what happens. How is the microphone call quality on the KEFs or NFPs? I need a pair to do zoom calls or phone calls too during the day. Thanks.


----------



## michsu

Discussion inside on the PI7.. with mention of Bluetooth drop too near the end.. starts at 29-39 minutes


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

michsu said:


> Unfortunately, I ordered it on Amazon yesterday and is coming Friday. Let’s see what happens. How is the microphone call quality on the KEFs or NFPs? I need a pair to do zoom calls or phone calls too during the day. Thanks.


Mic on the NFPs is fine. Does it have to be a flagship if the PI7 doesn't work out?


----------



## samandhi

michsu said:


> So what’s the one to get now? I’ll test it out, but I’m going to return it with all the bad reviews. That’s so sad. Is the Sennheiser Momentum any good? Noble Falcon Pro? That seems to be similar to the sound of this one.
> 
> People have been buying the PI7 from Amazon. When I got mine, there were 10 available, and now there are only 2 available. Lucky I ordered the Status between pro, but if that’s a lie too, then I’ll just stick with what I have.


You could try the Klipsch TWS line, or maybe the Marshall Mode 2 TWS. I am on the fence about getting the Marshall until I start seeing others thoughts on them.


----------



## hifi80sman

erockg said:


> I highly recommend the NFPs or the KEFs.  Both solid.  Stay away from the B&Ws right now IMO.


I've been waiting for B&W to release a TWS that sounds like the P7W, which are STILL one of my favorite headphones.

Looks like I'll be waiting a bit longer.


----------



## SemiAudiophile (May 6, 2021)

FYI: UTWS3 is in stock on Amazon Fiio store May 12th/13th in the US. 😉


----------



## Havre

The avforums video more or less confirms to me that something odd is going on. The PI7s he is talking about do not match with the set I got in terms of ANC. Just not possible.

Had a strange experience at the store yesterday. For a second it felt like something was happening and that the ANC turned on for 1-2s and then disappeared again. Not sure as it happened so quickly. Makes me think there is something wrong with the code. That the ANC is there, but for some reason it isn't turned on on mine (and that is true whatever I do in the app to turn it on).

As for the connection it still works fine for me with my phone and my work computer (my mac won't find them - and the Fiio X5 3rd are as mentioned earlier completely usesless). I can freely walk around in my apartment with no issues.

Used them for quite a few phone calls yesterday as well. Works well. No issues at either end.

So for me if I can get the ANC working this would be close to a 10 out of 10 (probably 9.5 because I wish the battery was a bit better). Sound-wise they are to me very very good. I was so disappointed with the Jabra 75t, but this is in a completely different league. Makes sense to wait though - to see if B&W can get things sorted out with some of the clear flaws they currently got. Hopefully a quick fix and not a full Devialet.


----------



## bronco1015

michsu said:


> Discussion inside on the PI7.. with mention of Bluetooth drop too near the end.. starts at 29-39 minutes



I thought it was interesting that while in a Sstore with his oppo phone they not only cut out, but occasionally would skipp a track. He tried the same thing with the A&K Kann paired with the PI7 and had no issues, and no other TWEs cut out or skipped a track while paired to his phone in the store.


----------



## astrafiles (May 6, 2021)

Well.. I've got the PI7 and so far i really really never met the issues you described.
Ni hiccups, no drop...anc is working well , i can feel the difference.
by the way dont forget it is adaptative, so is it not due to the fact the buds feels you re in a quiet place , so anc is less strong ? This is really surprising to me. A totally different experience.

I have the Devialet Gemini as well.
As to say, the soft team has done a tremendous work to fix the issues that occurs for many users.
I can confirm they work as we would have expected when they were released.

So if B&W has things to fix via the software, it seems there is places to enhance the experience if they really need to.

If i compare both...

Sound : B&W with hi res file is just awesome.

I would say if you listen to mp4, mp3, flac 44-16 , you would not feel a real difference between the two.

If you go to higher bitrate, it is easier to feel/spot the difference.

I love the lows on both , the soundstage is extended on the B&W.

Battery... Devialet is better obviously.
This is the real downfall of B&W.
But I have less opportunity to listen to music during thebday for 4h in a row.
So i guess putting the earbuds in the box at each break would help complete the day.

If i m flying for a long trip, i would use the sony whm4 anyway.

Now the shame is on samsung that doesnt want to pay the aptx hd and ll.
By chance Sony xperia has it and it is pure joy.

About apple, i would agree that im not sure it worth it to pay that price to use only for aac.

Ho, yeah this is just my experience and don t expect that xbody will agree  

I have also sony wmf3 and first sennheiser mt... not sure they will see the light of day anymore now...


----------



## Havre

For the ANC I have tested turning the adaptive off. 

Went to the supermarket earlier today. The ANC will remove the drone from the refrigerators. So something is working, but only for very specific low frequency sounds.


----------



## Thesonofkrypton

Bit disheartening to see all these new sets having issues straight out the box.  Seems like everyone is rushing to get theirs out before Sony or Apple release their new sets, let's be honest they do it better connection/anc wise than others.


----------



## Havre

Thesonofkrypton said:


> Bit disheartening to see all these new sets having issues straight out the box.  Seems like everyone is rushing to get theirs out before Sony or Apple release their new sets, let's be honest they do it better connection/anc wise than others.



Yeah. B&W making a deal out of not being the first because they wanted to do it right. Funny.

This doesn't have to be a big issue, but you really got to wonder how they are testing the prototypes.


----------



## tiagopinto

Caipirina said:


> What can the Sennheiser Momentum TW2 better than the Bose QC EarBuds or Jabra 85t?
> My hoarding heart has found a local source for the MTW2, bit crazy price wise, but what can I do, can't fly somewhere else for shopping
> I have the Bose and the Jabras and love them a LOT, but neither of them has AptX .. which got me to look around and I recall that when the MTW2s were fresh, there was a lot of positive talk here ...
> Now, I checked some YT reviews ... (remember Jimmy? That made me realize how long the MTW2 have already been on the market, when Jimmy still did reviews) ... and overall I am not super convinced ... the fit could be an issue, the sound could be too 'neutral' ... and I really am not a fan of touch vs click buttons .. but at least they can be remapped ..
> Now, why would you say I still should get the MTW2 in my stable? The ANC seems to be about the same (and really depenidng on fit) ..



Yep, Jim’s review room... I miss the guy. He went into gaming. I liked his reviews.


----------



## tiagopinto

samandhi said:


> A lot of companies nowadays just don't care, but there are a few that seem to. Even those companies tend to do JUST enough to give the illusion that they really care. It is tragic that CS and engineering is at an all time low (greed being the ONLY thing that matters).
> 
> However, in the case of Cambridge (at least for the MT) their actions really do show that they care (or are at least smart enough to see that they were killing their profits with broken devices from the factory). I am just glad to see that they didn't follow the model that I described about Fiio (and Samsung, and many others nowadays), and abandon the device altogether and make a "new and improved" model.
> 
> ...



Yes on the first paragraph. As you may know, I only own the MT as TWS, although I’ve tried and tested several others. These are the ones I’m keeping and definitely would buy from CA again. They did successive FW updates until the initial issues were solved and as @miserybeforethemusic said before their approach to CS made me sure of that. I place enormous value on CS. 
I was tempted to get the MW08 because I love the looks, the form/function and the descriptions on SQ that have been shared. I might hold off until I hear more about BTLE/LC3. Tight wallet, tight decisions. 

Big yes on the second paragraph. I value his opinion very much. I know (and hope) he’s not keeping his promise and I’m eager to get his opinion on an approach I myself would not invest in but I’m very curious on the results/impressions.


----------



## tiagopinto

samandhi said:


> Here are the specs for the Marshall Mode II (for those interested):
> 
> I noticed that the case also has an IP rating... Also the codecs used are missing. From the 4 different sources I read, they have AptX and SBC. For iPone(ers) AAC is missing.



No AAC, I’m out. 

Honestly, I would be out anyway. Although I revere their guitar amps, I find that 20% of their price in other products is paying for the iconic logo. In BT speakers and in the headphones I tried, price definitely does not justify the quality. It’s not bad, but it’s never great. 

Like the Marley brand, you’re partially paying for branding. I don’t mind paying for design, as in M&D for example, but as much as I love Bob, the SQ does not justify the usual price. Just my opinion.


----------



## tiagopinto

C_Lindbergh said:


> Imagine not stating which bluetooth coecs the device supports...
> 
> If Cambridge Audio has fixed most issues with the MT's then I just don't see these competing, the MT's are also cheaper. They're pretty much unbeatble at that price range, unless you really want ANC.



Exacty.


----------



## Caipirina

Anyone here who has compared the ANC on the Soundcore Liberty Air 2 Pro and the Samsung Galaxy Pro? I actually found a YT video comparing them but this guy is like 'they both sound good, they both have great ANC' ... I am really curious about the ANC and I don't have a chance to test before buy ... 
Which brings me to the fit .. I had something similar to the Air 2 Pro (something from Aukey?) but the tips did not reach deep enough into the ear ...  on the other hand I read here that ppl have fit issues with the Galaxy Pros ... 
Argh ... I wish I wasn't that tempted and would just patiently wait until the Sony XM4 come out (remember how last year this time we got antsy about the Bose QC earbuds?)


----------



## Mr.Toad

Havre said:


> The avforums video more or less confirms to me that something odd is going on. The PI7s he is talking about do not match with the set I got in terms of ANC. Just not possible.
> 
> Had a strange experience at the store yesterday. For a second it felt like something was happening and that the ANC turned on for 1-2s and then disappeared again. Not sure as it happened so quickly. Makes me think there is something wrong with the code. That the ANC is there, but for some reason it isn't turned on on mine (and that is true whatever I do in the app to turn it on).
> 
> ...


Sorry if I'm asking the obvious, but you're sure that Auto is not turned on in the App?


----------



## Mr.Toad

bronco1015 said:


> I thought it was interesting that while in a Sstore with his oppo phone they not only cut out, but occasionally would skipp a track. He tried the same thing with the A&K Kann paired with the PI7 and had no issues, and no other TWEs cut out or skipped a track while paired to his phone in the store.


Yes, there is some weird interference going on with the wireless connection of the PI7s. Mine reliably cut out momentarily if I'm listening to them when I open my laptop even though they have never been paired with it.


----------



## Mr.Toad

Havre said:


> For the ANC I have tested turning the adaptive off.
> 
> Went to the supermarket earlier today. The ANC will remove the drone from the refrigerators. So something is working, but only for very specific low frequency sounds.


Right, forget my previous question, then. That may be as good as the ANC gets. I find it works mostly on low droning, sounds, too. A good seal helps with the higher frequencies, of course.


----------



## Havre

I do consider myself reasonably intelligent. So I think I got the toggle on off and the "auto" sorted in the app. 

Seal is very good. Not sure why considering the design, but probably the best seal I have ever had with any IEM. Even better than the Jabra Elite Active 75t which I guess is somewhat known for having a good seal. So good in fact that for anything but flying I'm not sure if I would use the ANC much. Sounds better with the ANC off - unless you like it "boomy".

I guess the next couple of weeks will show - if this is something more users start to question. Based on the reviews so far the ANC should be much much better than what I am experiencing (and also others in this thread).


----------



## clerkpalmer

Havre said:


> I do consider myself reasonably intelligent. So I think I got the toggle on off and the "auto" sorted in the app.
> 
> Seal is very good. Not sure why considering the design, but probably the best seal I have ever had with any IEM. Even better than the Jabra Elite Active 75t which I guess is somewhat known for having a good seal. So good in fact that for anything but flying I'm not sure if I would use the ANC much. Sounds better with the ANC off - unless you like it "boomy".
> 
> I guess the next couple of weeks will show - if this is something more users start to question. Based on the reviews so far the ANC should be much much better than what I am experiencing (and also others in this thread).


I would call the anc middle of the road. It’s definitely noticeable but I’m not sure it’s super effective. I’d give it a C. The Gemini have surprisingly good ANC but whenever I use my Bose i am reminded about how awesome Bose is with ANC. Even with the openish nature of them, they sure do quiet everything down.


----------



## michsu

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Mic on the NFPs is fine. Does it have to be a flagship if the PI7 doesn't work out?l





clerkpalmer said:


> I would call the anc middle of the road. It’s definitely noticeable but I’m not sure it’s super effective. I’d give it a C. The Gemini have surprisingly good ANC but whenever I use my Bose i am reminded about how awesome Bose is with ANC. Even with the openish nature of them, they sure do quiet everything down.


How is the Bose compared to any of these? I might as well get the Bose wireless. The only thing I don’t like about it is that you lose features just using one earbud.


----------



## Mr.Toad

clerkpalmer said:


> I would call the anc middle of the road. It’s definitely noticeable but I’m not sure it’s super effective. I’d give it a C. The Gemini have surprisingly good ANC but whenever I use my Bose i am reminded about how awesome Bose is with ANC. Even with the openish nature of them, they sure do quiet everything down.


Agreed, ANC is middling.


----------



## Havre

clerkpalmer said:


> I would call the anc middle of the road. It’s definitely noticeable but I’m not sure it’s super effective. I’d give it a C. The Gemini have surprisingly good ANC but whenever I use my Bose i am reminded about how awesome Bose is with ANC. Even with the openish nature of them, they sure do quiet everything down.



Just turend on my dishwasher (the beauty of home office). Kind of funny how it almost completely kills part of the noise the dishwasher makes - but for most of it I would say it has 0 effect. And you almost have to listen for the frequencies it is capable of removing.

I would be happy with a C at this point. So far this is a very weak D (there is something there), but if your ANC is this weak you might as well not have it in my opinion.


----------



## SoundChoice (May 7, 2021)

.


----------



## clerkpalmer

michsu said:


> How is the Bose compared to any of these? I might as well get the Bose wireless. The only thing I don’t like about it is that you lose features just using one earbud.


The Bose are solid particularly if ANC is important. The sq isn’t to the level of the B&W, M&D etc but it’s pretty good. A little hollow sounding maybe but if you are familiar with the Bose house sound you will enjoy them. I use mine all the time. Fit is terrific and they just work period. Every time. No hiccups. Long battery life. You can do a lot worse.


----------



## zeinharis (May 6, 2021)

Caipirina said:


> I have this terrible itch that I need yet another TWS  and my local selection is very limited ... but, besides the ORANGE WF-SP800N from Sony, which I did not know existed (still looks to plasticky to me and I remember the complaints I read here about the fit), I also found a shop that allegedly has those 4 Nuarls ... and I have no Nuarl in my collection ... any of them highly recommended? and idea why the price difference between NT01L and NT01A?
> 
> 
> 
> Wow, there really is not a lot of reviews on the N6 Mini out there .. I found the few mentions that are in this thread, but on YT there are NO English language reviews ... hmm .. makes me curious .. and price is not too bad ...





Luchyres said:


> I loved my NT01A and N6, and even without the HDSS (which iirc the mini is lacking) I'm still very curious to hear the N6 Mini. That's the one I would encourage you to check out from these - or perhaps the N6 sport though I know even less about those.
> 
> Let us know if you do!


I love my N6 mini which my go to for listening heavy bass tracks with their own tips (Nuarl Block Ear+), but now since I got my hands on Tanchjim T300T tips, the sounds is getting balanced between the lower and the upper frequencies without ruining the mids and it’s excellent timbres.

features wise, it’s only have hear through no ANC but the passive noise cancellation is pretty good, and it also have IP7x rating, so no worries about using it for workouts. Comfort wise, it’s among the best, it is quite small and it’s sitting flush on ears.







one more thing, Nuarl is releasing an App for the N6 Sports.


----------



## Canabuc

hifi80sman said:


> I've been waiting for B&W to release a TWS that sounds like the P7W, which are STILL one of my favorite headphones.
> 
> Looks like I'll be waiting a bit longer.


Yup. Live the p7w. Still their best sounding BT headphone. Better than any of their newer stuff


----------



## mainguy

hifi80sman said:


> I've been waiting for B&W to release a TWS that sounds like the P7W, which are STILL one of my favorite headphones.
> 
> Looks like I'll be waiting a bit longer.


I doubt thatll ever happen, b&w hit some kind of special sweet spot with p7w and p9 imo. The new products dont have that same sound


----------



## Canabuc

Caipirina said:


> Anyone here who has compared the ANC on the Soundcore Liberty Air 2 Pro and the Samsung Galaxy Pro? I actually found a YT video comparing them but this guy is like 'they both sound good, they both have great ANC' ... I am really curious about the ANC and I don't have a chance to test before buy ...
> Which brings me to the fit .. I had something similar to the Air 2 Pro (something from Aukey?) but the tips did not reach deep enough into the ear ...  on the other hand I read here that ppl have fit issues with the Galaxy Pros ...
> Argh ... I wish I wasn't that tempted and would just patiently wait until the Sony XM4 come out (remember how last year this time we got antsy about the Bose QC earbuds?)



Had Liberty air 2 pro for about 5 hours before returning. Fit was terrible and despite a million included tips it didn't help. Also didn't love the tuning. ANC was good though

Galaxy buds pro lived the sound but could not get a comfortable fit in my ears and do ANC was very dependent on seal.

Ended up returning.

Freebuds pro I get a very good secure fit and have great ANC. Using EQ I really like their sound. Noticeably warmer than the Samsung. More mids focused whereas the Samsung mids are recessed and the Treble is more apparent.


----------



## tiagopinto

W1ll1eTheP1mp said:


> Please help me folks! Its so hard to choose in the vast ocean of TWS IEMs. Which TWS has the best implenation of surround sound/360/Atmos/immersive sound etc?this can be fun if done right. I need a TWS for work and light jogging. Good battery, good mic and decent sound is what i need. This is not going to be a critical listening device i got U12T for that. This is going to be a very "fun" tws IEM.



I would try the Melomania Touch. For me they only lack ANC and Qi. Otherwise, they are VERY comfortable (I even ride my mountain bike with them), they have very good SQ, more than decent battery life and you can use left or right independently. You have to get used to the “full panel” touch control sensitivity because as I’ve said: bad thing is they never miss and good thing is they never miss. But they’re quite a treat sound wise. Unbeatable at 130€.


----------



## Canabuc

I had too many issues with the MT. The case design was bungled in my opinion. The magnet for the left locked the bud in perfectly but it seems misaligned on the right and it takes work to get them to make a proper connection.

This can't be fixed in firmware but could in a revision. But in tws world there is no time for revisions unless you have a blockbuster like the Sony XM3.
Instead you just released the next model.

That is what Sennheiser did with their 1st gen MTW which had the case drain issue.

This is why going forward I will reside to early adopt tws as every new high end model seems to have 1 issue or another be it Devialet, B&W, Cambridge audio...


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

Caipirina said:


> Anyone here who has compared the ANC on the Soundcore Liberty Air 2 Pro and the Samsung Galaxy Pro? I actually found a YT video comparing them but this guy is like 'they both sound good, they both have great ANC' ... I am really curious about the ANC and I don't have a chance to test before buy ...
> Which brings me to the fit .. I had something similar to the Air 2 Pro (something from Aukey?) but the tips did not reach deep enough into the ear ...  on the other hand I read here that ppl have fit issues with the Galaxy Pros ...
> Argh ... I wish I wasn't that tempted and would just patiently wait until the Sony XM4 come out (remember how last year this time we got antsy about the Bose QC earbuds?)


The LA2P's ANC is fair, but won't win any awards, that's for sure. I did think they needed the SpinFits to seal well enough for it to be effective as well, so you'll need to factor in the cost of tips along with it.

I assume ANC is a must-have?


tiagopinto said:


> I would try the Melomania Touch. For me they only lack ANC and Qi. Otherwise, they are VERY comfortable (I even ride my mountain bike with them), they have very good SQ, more than decent battery life and you can use left or right independently. You have to get used to the “full panel” touch control sensitivity because as I’ve said: bad thing is they never miss and good thing is they never miss. But they’re quite a treat sound wise. Unbeatable at 130€.


The case also cleans remarkably well. Just had to wipe the outer part down with a damp microfiber and it looks great again.

I have all touch controls disabled via the app except volume and HearThrough. Makes the whole experience a lot more enjoyable.

Honestly, it's a smash hit for the price. Don't even miss ANC because of how well they isolate for me. Sounds bloody fantastic paired up to the SR25.


----------



## Caipirina

zeinharis said:


> I love my N6 mini which my go to for listening heavy bass tracks with their own tips (Nuarl Block Ear+), but now since I got my hands on Tanchjim T300T tips, the sounds is getting balanced between the lower and the upper frequencies without ruining the mids and it’s excellent timbres.
> 
> features wise, it’s only have hear through no ANC but the passive noise cancellation is pretty good, and it also have IP7x rating, so no worries about using it for workouts. Comfort wise, it’s among the best, it is quite small and it’s sitting flush on ears.
> 
> ...


Thanks Zeinharis, I also read your earlier posts on the mini ...   interesting to see the app thing, but that's only for the sport?  Maybe I wait until Nuarl comes out with a kick ass ANC model ...


----------



## tiagopinto

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Even my desktop mouse/keyboard combo (Logitech MX, not the cheap stuff) can't handle BT very well when I'm using my TWS at the same time. I end up having to rely on the proprietary connection half the time or go without using my TWS if I need to type.
> 
> Signal interference out the wazoo. It's not just a TWS problem.



Very true. Your thoroughness keeps positively surprising me. I had never thought about interference from the keyboard but it definitely happens. I’m also using my crappy mouse with the little dongle, so I wonder if it still emits BT signal... I’ve been eyeing that MX combo as well but I need a second monitor first. Regardless, no issues whatsoever with the MTs lately, just enjoyment.


----------



## Caipirina

miserybeforethemusic said:


> The LA2P's ANC is fair, but won't win any awards, that's for sure. I did think they needed the SpinFits to seal well enough for it to be effective as well, so you'll need to factor in the cost of tips along with it.
> 
> I assume ANC is a must-have?


Well ... I am rattling through the options which presents themselves here locally (tropical island far away from regular mail service and shopping outlets) 

As many here know, I really don't NEED another set of TWS ... I have a slight substance abuse problem with audio gear   ... 

That being said, it has been too long that I got something new to play with .. but those last few months saw 2 endgame material TWS joining my farm, the Jabra 85t and the Bose QC earbuds ...   and yes, I am a huuuge fan of ANC and I am one of the few ppl who actually likes and appreciates the Galaxy Buds Live. 

Ideally I find something that has even more impressive ANC, while offering a head-bobbing dynamic energy in the sound profile (i.e. I love the ANC of the Airpods Pro, but I find the sound signature obscenely 'play it safe' mediocre)


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

tiagopinto said:


> Very true. Your thoroughness keeps positively surprising me. I had never thought about interference from the keyboard but it definitely happens. I’m also using my crappy mouse with the little dongle, so I wonder if it still emits BT signal... I’ve been eyeing that MX combo as well but I need a second monitor first. Regardless, no issues whatsoever with the MTs lately, just enjoyment.


It's what makes me pretty good at my job. Spend a lot of time thinking in the abstract, which really helps when you do a lot of troubleshooting. In this case, I noticed that if I switched from using the Logitech dongle over the BT connection (they do both) while I'm listening to TWS, my cursor sticks like crazy. Adjustments on the trackpad work perfectly.

Occam's razor suggests BT interference.

Second monitor first. I'm in the same boat. Really need something with USB-C, DP, and HDMI, which narrows down my options quite a bit. Maybe a size down, too. 32" is a bit silly.


----------



## zeinharis

Caipirina said:


> Thanks Zeinharis, I also read your earlier posts on the mini ...   interesting to see the app thing, but that's only for the sport?  Maybe I wait until Nuarl comes out with a kick ass ANC model ...


The app is currently for the sports, but I’m pretty sure it will be available for all the N6 series including the Mini, N6, and the N6 Pro.

I’m currently waiting for the N10 Plus that have ANC and ambient mode. I really love the N10 Pro for their sound but the connection issue is bugging me as hell soo I ended up returning them, hopefully I got my hands on the N10 Plus by end of this month.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

Caipirina said:


> Well ... I am rattling through the options which presents themselves here locally (tropical island far away from regular mail service and shopping outlets)
> 
> As many here know, I really don't NEED another set of TWS ... I have a slight substance abuse problem with audio gear   ...
> 
> ...


Misses the mark on most impressive ANC, but if you liked the 85t, the Active 75t is a great companion. Plenty of dynamic energy, especially on the low end.

Should satisfy that itch without breaking the bank or heavily risking a RMA.


----------



## W1ll1eTheP1mp

C_Lindbergh said:


> Depends on how you define budget


Max 150 usd new or used


----------



## michsu

W1ll1eTheP1mp said:


> Max 150 usd new or used


Get the status between Pro for $99 on their indiegogo page. You just have to wait a bit though. I placed an order.


----------



## johnston21 (May 6, 2021)

Got my PI7’s this morning and not (yet) experiencing any drop-outs from my iPhone SE (orig. version) or from my SONY NW-ZX507. Wear sensor has been turned off (via the app). I did experience the low sound issue, but the work-around resolves that.

They do sound good (with stock tips), but better than my NFP’s? Debatable. But since I didn’t graduate from journalism (and have a poor right ear), I don’t debate (or perpetuate SQ).

In the next few days I will post my foam tip compatibility findings and how well they work with the Fii0 BTA30 in the separate PI7 thread.

Advance spoiler: The Dekoni TWS 4.9’s (shorter length than the Mercury’s) fit well and allow the PI7’s to seat in the case just fine. The Symbio F’s fit just as well, but are a wee bit longer in length. They do make contact and the case does close without issue but sit up from the case just a bit. More to come.


----------



## CocaCola15

Anyone try the Comply TrueGrip TW-200-A on the Melomania Touch? I love the sound, fit, etc. But I can't get a proper seal with my right ear (you should see the difference on my old JH-500 customs between the two ears). So I am trying to find the best tip. I ordered the e-Pro tips (en route) and now the Complys. One of those two should work. But with all reaplacement tips, my concern is the Complys will be too large for the charging case (though they are made for the MTs). If I can solve this issue, I'll be a happy camper. Going out with the MTs now is too much adjusting. Unlike the M1+ which stay in place because I have foam tips from CA for them. For whatever reason, CA did not make foam tips for the MTs. The ones with the M1/M1+ are amazing, never seem to wear out and can be cleaned. Of course, I overbought backups because they are relatively cheap ($10 for 5 pair on Amazon). I am set for life on that front!
TrueGrip™ TW-200-A​


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

CocaCola15 said:


> Anyone try the Comply TrueGrip TW-200-A on the Melomania Touch? I love the sound, fit, etc. But I can't get a proper seal with my right ear (you should see the difference on my old JH-500 customs between the two ears). So I am trying to find the best tip. I ordered the e-Pro tips (en route) and now the Complys. One of those two should work. But with all reaplacement tips, my concern is the Complys will be too large for the charging case (though they are made for the MTs). If I can solve this issue, I'll be a happy camper. Going out with the MTs now is too much adjusting. Unlike the M1+ which stay in place because I have foam tips from CA for them. For whatever reason, CA did not make foam tips for the MTs. The ones with the M1/M1+ are amazing, never seem to wear out and can be cleaned. Of course, I overbought backups because they are relatively cheap ($10 for 5 pair on Amazon). I am set for life on that front!
> TrueGrip™ TW-200-A​


Had a feeling you might have had an issue with the way they beveled the topmost edge of that tip. I think you'd benefit more for something that's flatter up top.

You could try the TrueGrip Pro. They're the ones I mentioned earlier that were made for the MTW2 and have some sort of heat-reactive foam. Those fit like a dream in my ears with the MT. Problem is the ones I got were secondhand on eBay. These are the closest match to that:
https://www.complyfoam.com/products/tru-truegrip-for-sennheiser-momentum-true-wireless/

Alternatively, you could take a look at the Dekoni TWS tips. Maybe I'll throw those on today and get some impressions:
https://dekoniaudio.com/product/dek...black-the-mercury-true-wireless-4-9mm-3-pack/

In either case, I haven't found a need to compress the foam before insertion, especially on those Comply. Fwiw, ALL of these tips won't fit properly in the case when attached to the earbuds, but I do find that I can remove them and put them on that "shelf" in between where the buds go. Case still closes. You should find the EPro horns fit, though, and may mitigate your need for foams.


----------



## Canabuc (May 6, 2021)

Caipirina said:


> Well ... I am rattling through the options which presents themselves here locally (tropical island far away from regular mail service and shopping outlets)
> 
> As many here know, I really don't NEED another set of TWS ... I have a slight substance abuse problem with audio gear   ...
> 
> ...



I will keep banging the drum for the freebuds pro. Has it all and sounds really good too.

Very good ANC and transparency. Great fit and full controls on either bud. Multipairing and wireless charging.
No official IP rating but have heard some have reached out and it is ipx4 equivalent.

I have worked out many times with them and they fit great and no issues with sweat.

Only thing I needed was to use the equalizer in my phone to bump up the treble a bit.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic (May 6, 2021)

Snapped some photos of the 3 "TWS" foam tips I had on hand.

From left to right: Dekoni TWS, TrueGrip Pro (with the dust filter), TrueGrip Premium



Somehow mixed up the order, but Dekoni TWS, Comply TrueGrip Premium, TrueGrip Pro



I _really _dig the Premiums, but don't know how one would find them again. They seem to have the smallest form factor of the bunch as well. Need to spend more time with the TrueGrip Pro and Dekoni TWS, but it would stand to reason if the TW-200 weren't wide enough, you'd be better off with the TrueGrip Pro. Doesn't extend enough? Dekoni.

Edit for listening impressions:
I don't like what the Pro's debris filter does to the MT's upper midrange/treble response. Both the Dekoni and TrueGrip Premium alter the overall sound signature much less. If I had to pick a favorite at the moment, I'd probably go with the Dekoni as they're the most comfortable in my ears and there's really not much of a tradeoff in sound quality. I think they're also less expensive than either Comply.


----------



## tiagopinto

Darkestred said:


> The one thing i can say about my MTs is no matter the tip i have not had any issues charging.  I just plop them in.  No adding twists and turns.  The one thing i did learn today is that there are different fins.  I need to look over packages better.



I’ve been using the large tips with the large wings since day one and no complaints. The “samandhi drop” tactic and that’s it. They always charge.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic (May 6, 2021)

Wasn't kidding when I said they extend out quite a bit. Foam is a little tacky, too, so should help with grip as well. These have a very slow rebound. I imagine you can get a very deep insertion with these, but there's no way they fit in the case. It's pretty silly:


----------



## tiagopinto

bronco1015 said:


> Got the MW08 in, they connected to my V60 via APTX Adaptive on their own. Initial impressions? I just can't believe how sloppy and pathetic the bass sounds on these. Blobby, not good texture, they respond to eq okay, but the sloppiness of the bass tuning can't be eqed out.
> everything else sounds okay, at times especially after eq, I noticed they have decent placement of instruments, and the mids can shine in a unique way. Hard to describe.



Any burn-in?


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

Finally, the Comply TrueGrip Pro for visual comparison. Medium rebound, super wide, very "plush." There is an in-built debris filter which does muffle the midrange a bit on this 2.8MHz DSF copy of the pictured album (content filter will probably censor the title). Not like treble sensitivity has been anybody's issue with the MT, but I suppose you could use these in a pinch if you needed to roll off any harsh sibilants.


This fit is even sillier than the previous, but I felt it necessary to illustrate that they don't just _not _fit, they don't fit _at all_. None of the foam tips do.


----------



## Caipirina

Canabuc said:


> I will keep banging the drum for the freebuds pro. Has it all and sounds really good too.
> 
> Very good ANC and transparency. Great fit and full controls on either bud. Multipairing and wireless charging.
> No official IP rating but have heard some have reached out and it is ipx4 equivalent.
> ...


Interesting, they have flown under my radar so far ..  first check and it appears that they are available locally, same price as the Galaxy Buds Pro ... now I have another rabbit hole to follow down


----------



## CocaCola15 (May 6, 2021)

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Wasn't kidding when I said they extend our quite a bit. Foam is a little tacky, too, so should help with grip as well. These have a very slow rebound. I imagine you can get a very deep insertion with these, but there's no way they fit in the case. It's pretty silly:


I botched my post earlier, misunderstood your response. I have not yet tried the True-Grip TW-200-A, I just ordered them. In fact, I have both the E-Pro and the TW-200-A en route.

It's amazing how well the M1/M1+ foams from CA fit, both my ears and the case. Different form factor, of course. Why CA decided not to make OEM foam tips for the MTs I don't know. They crushed it with the M1/M1+ foam tips.

Also, I somehow ordered the X-large E-Pros, doh! May be too large for my ears, we'll see. Meantime, I just decided to give the OEM silicone large tips another go and guess what? I went for a 30-minute dog walk and not a single adjustment after leaving the front door. Snug fit. I must be losing my mind. Zappa's Stinkfoot never sounded so good (at least not on a TW in-ear I've owned). Have to try the Between Pros for that track; I still favor their sound sig over the MTs and M1+, but different tech right? Though I love all three. Am looking forward to more HFers getting those damn BPs, I need to know I am not completely crazy liking them so much! At $79, best value I have ever received in any headphone, and I am talking many dozens of purchases over the decades.

Looks like I will be following the "remove the tips store in case route" for the Comply tips with the MT, in any case. I am just a foam tip fan, even with today's silicone success.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

CocaCola15 said:


> So none of the Complys you have are the ones Comply says will work with the MTs? The TW-200A? I don't see them in your lineup. I have the E-Pro and the TW-200-A en route. It's amazing how well the M1/M1+ foams from CA fit, both my ears and the case. Different form factor, of course.
> 
> I somehow ordered the X-large E-Pros, doh! May be too big, we'll see. Meantime, I just decided to give the OEM silicone large tips a go again and guess what? I went for a 30-minute dog walk and not a single adjustment after leaving the front door. Snug fit. I must be losing my mind. Zappa's Stinkfoot never sounded so good (at least not on a TW in-ear I've owned). Have to try the Between Pros again, I think I still favor their sound sig over the MTs and M1+, but different tech right? Am looking forward to more HFers getting those damn things, I need to know I am not completely crazy! At $79, best value I have ever received in any headphone, and I am talking many dozens over the decades.


Correct. I don't have the TW-200A. While I don't recommend others try this, I basically blind-ordered all 3 sets at about the same time knowing that I'd be tip-rolling a bunch later. I waste money so hopefully other people don't have to.

For the MT, I recommend Dekoni, but that's with the caveat that they need to be removed every time you need to put them in the case. I know some people won't want to go through with that, though.

Did you add the E-Pro from your Amazon wishlist? It kept defaulting to XL for me as well. Had to manually select M on the product page. 

And you're not losing your mind; eventually you just figure out how these things were meant to fit. May 17th can't come soon enough; I need to hear these darn BPs already.


----------



## tiagopinto

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Paradoxical question. Kinda like how I wonder if we'd ever have gotten the updates we did on the MT if I hadn't nagged their CEO via the email included in that box. Better to just be a squeaky wheel to B&W if owners want any hope of seeing this stuff improve.



Yes, thank you, it surely helped.


----------



## CocaCola15

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Correct. I don't have the TW-200A. While I don't recommend others try this, I basically blind-ordered all 3 sets at about the same time knowing that I'd be tip-rolling a bunch later. I waste money so hopefully other people don't have to.
> 
> For the MT, I recommend Dekoni, but that's with the caveat that they need to be removed every time you need to put them in the case. I know some people won't want to go through with that, though.
> 
> ...


I'll try the Complys when they get here, I can return the E-Pros for the right size, and yes, it defaulted to X-large. I will tell Amazon they were defective and they will not charge return shipping. We have one of those UPS stores here where you can return Amazon stuff outside a box and they ship a whole bunch of returns at one time. For small items.

I'll hold off on the E-Pros until the Complys get here. Maybe they will fit the case, maybe not. Guess I will find out.


----------



## erockg

clerkpalmer said:


> This doesn’t feel like a firmware thing either. This is probably a design flaw. I give them credit for pushing the envelope on the technology but they seemed to have dropped the ball on the basics. Maybe they will respond to someone here that they are working on a fix.


I agree, it's a BT connection flaw.  I can literally pinch the right bud and the BT just cuts out non-stop.  Got my RMA, hasta la vista.


----------



## erockg

hifi80sman said:


> I've been waiting for B&W to release a TWS that sounds like the P7W, which are STILL one of my favorite headphones.
> 
> Looks like I'll be waiting a bit longer.


Definitely wait until they sort, IF they sort it out.  Some folks aren't having issues, but more are.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

erockg said:


> I agree, it's a BT connection flaw.  I can literally pinch the right bud and the BT just cuts out non-stop.  Got my RMA, hasta la vista.


Yeouch that's no good. Sounds like there might be a loose connection somewhere, then? That or BT signal is just having a beast of a time getting out of those shells. Hopefully they'll send back a pair that works for you this time.

In the meantime, this just arrived. Even after Bloom Audio basically blast-proofed their shipping container, there was still a little wear on the packaging. Inside contents are fine.



Might be hard to tell in the photo, but there's a little bit of the ol' Sennheiser Sparkle going on with the casing here. Really like this effect, especially on a case this large. I don't anticipate this thing being a fingerprint magnet at all.

But it's a big honker. Here they are sitting next to the WH3, which are already fairly large for their size/form factor. When those reviewers said you wouldn't have an issue fitting large IEMs in here, they weren't kidding. I can fit the WH3, stem and all, inside each cup and have room for extra tips left over.

Did have some issues getting it to charge on the wireless pad at first. Unplugged and plugged the charging pad back in and now we're good to go. User guide doesn't help much, but looks like there's a front-panel LED that blinks red whilst charging.

Once it's done with charging, I've got a few sets of MMCX IEMs that I can test with it:

Etymotic ER4XR (will probably pass on this as the Etymotion cable is already perfect for them and supports aptX HD)
Campfire Audio Comet
Dunu DK-3001 Pro
Tin HiFi T2 Pro
Tin HiFi P1 (Saving this one for last as it's going to be the hardest to drive and the one I'm most excited to test...delayed gratification is necessary here)


----------



## SemiAudiophile

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Yeouch that's no good. Sounds like there might be a loose connection somewhere, then? That or BT signal is just having a beast of a time getting out of those shells. Hopefully they'll send back a pair that works for you this time.
> 
> In the meantime, this just arrived. Even after Bloom Audio basically blast-proofed their shipping container, there was still a little wear on the packaging. Inside contents are fine.
> 
> ...


You will have no problems fitting XL IEMs in that case for sure. 😆

Looking forward to your impressions.


----------



## bladefd (May 6, 2021)

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Snapped some photos of the 3 "TWS" foam tips I had on hand.
> 
> From left to right: Dekoni TWS, TrueGrip Pro (with the dust filter), TrueGrip Premium
> 
> ...


How do the dekoni compare to the silicone ones? You think they could last long time? Sound quality? Comfort?

Edit: never mind, you later posted they don't fit the case. Not worth trying then.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

bladefd said:


> How do the dekoni compare to the silicone ones? You think they could last long time? Sound quality? Comfort?


Compared to the Final TWS (as I'm pretty sure all my stock MT tips are tucked away in the closet upstairs), the Dekoni provide a noticeable lower bass (not sub-bass) lift and crush the upper midrange a little bit. The effect is _much_ milder when compared to what the Complys do. In terms of pure SQ, the Final TWS will take it for detail freaks. Those wanting more dynamics or have issues with the buds slipping out should be more than happy with the Dekoni.

I think the Dekoni will last plenty long. You don't need to compress the foam for fit, which is a major plus. I do have some Dekoni foams for IEMs that are still doing just fine, but the material on these TWS tips are a little more dense than the IEM ones and I think that helps as well.

They clean pretty easily as well. I just run a moistened finger around the perimeter if any debris gets stuck on; that's really all it needs.


----------



## Canabuc

Caipirina said:


> Interesting, they have flown under my radar so far ..  first check and it appears that they are available locally, same price as the Galaxy Buds Pro ... now I have another rabbit hole to follow down


If you can buy where there is a return policy go for it.
after everything I have owned including the Sony the 85t jabra and the mTW2 these outlasted all of them as the best overall package for fit comfort sound and features.


----------



## clerkpalmer

erockg said:


> I agree, it's a BT connection flaw.  I can literally pinch the right bud and the BT just cuts out non-stop.  Got my RMA, hasta la vista.


Did you call to get the RMA or is there an email process?


----------



## erockg

clerkpalmer said:


> Did you call to get the RMA or is there an email process?


I bought the PI5 from Crutchfield and did it via their site.  The PI7, I emailed B&W directly.


----------



## tiagopinto

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Yeouch that's no good. Sounds like there might be a loose connection somewhere, then? That or BT signal is just having a beast of a time getting out of those shells. Hopefully they'll send back a pair that works for you this time.
> 
> In the meantime, this just arrived. Even after Bloom Audio basically blast-proofed their shipping container, there was still a little wear on the packaging. Inside contents are fine.
> 
> ...



Wow, this is exciting. I’m gonna keep looking for “worthy” TWS, but I gotta talk to you about IEM’s. And do share your experience in the next few days...


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

tiagopinto said:


> Wow, this is exciting. I’m gonna keep looking for “worthy” TWS, but I gotta talk to you about IEM’s. And do share your experience in the next few days...


I'm always a PM away


----------



## miserybeforethemusic (May 6, 2021)

Been almost 2 hours since I put the CF01 on the charger. About halfway through, I shifted over to a USB connection in hopes that it would charge faster, but doesn't seem to be the case. This could be the first potential negative aside from the sheer size of the case that I've come across, depending on your use case. Since I primarily listen at home and haven't needed to rely on extended battery life, I imagine I could probably just top the case off periodically while I'm listening to the TWS and save myself some time overall.

Also realized it had been so long since I listened to some of these IEMs that I needed to get a baseline via wired connection. Starting off with the Tin T2 Pro, which are a notoriously polarizing IEM (much like the P1 continues to be). Without performing the vent mod and running balanced out of the SR25, these things are so ridiculously smooth. No bass vent mod needed, even. I do recommend a tip that allows for deeper insertion and chose to start with the Spiral Dots as I've never been a fan of what Tin HiFi includes with their IEMs. Subbass isn't going to cut it for the vast majority of listeners, but those looking for something closer to Etymotic neutral should be quite pleased. I have to keep remembering this isn't the P1 and I shouldn't be comparing it as such.

Going to be a tall order to recreate this sort of sound via the CF01, but I suppose we'll see what happens.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic (May 6, 2021)

T2 Pro/CF01 are in! Guess they were fully charged, even if the case wasn't.

Pairing was effortless. Only two pairs that might beat this for simplicity are those that have the Google/iOS-specific auto-pairing (like the APP and JBL Club Pro+). Left "bud" was found first and the right connected immediately afterwards. Stupid easy.

These things are tremendously comfortable, by the way. I can barely feel the weight of the cable/adapter around my ear. Weight distribution seems to be on point. I can even headbang with these; the portion that loops around the ear flops a bit when you do, but not in any sort of way that messes with IEM fitment.

Went right into my purpose-built Qobuz playlist and pushed play...

...and woah. Any doubts I had about the CF01 turning the T2 Pro into a brittle mess disappeared. This is TWS with sparkle, sub-bass, and comfort above all. Instruments have air around them. Unfortunately, staging is pretty generic and there's clear bubbles in which the left, right, and center tracks tend to reside. Localization in between those extremes is relatively low, though the left and right bubbles do extend well enough that it doesn't give me much cause for concern. All of this is relative to the wired connection, by the way. Relative to other TWS, we're not even in the same ballpark anymore; these sound remarkably better.

Yes, I used the term "better." I have not been kidnapped. I have not lost my sanity. Initial impressions are fantastically positive. Granted, I never tried the Fiio/TRN offerings, but guess now I really don't need to.

On tip selection, I won't go too far into the weeds as that's not the point of this thread, but do find that the Symbio W Hybrids give me the best all-around SQ when using the T2 Pro. Effectively gives you a tape mod without the tape, for those familiar.

Edit: on the following track, which is an absolute torture test with sibilants (those "s" sounds). If upper midrange/treble are boosted too much, this track will just repetitively stab your ears. Not a problem for this combo, though. Rides the limits, but manages to stay within control.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic (May 6, 2021)

About an hour of continuous listening at ~35% volume via UAPP and we have made it to 80%, meaning the estimates of about 4.5 hours of battery life are probably right on the mark. I don't dare turn it up any louder at risk of damaging my hearing. Holy crud these things have headroom on the T2 Pro.

I wonder if that'll continue as I make my way through the remainder of these IEMs, but so far really good. As my ears adjust to the LCD2C-like staging (wide bubble left, bubble center, wide bubble right), I'm a little more able to pick out things slightly left and right of center, but imaging isn't quite up to snuff compared to wired. If that's the kind of nit-picking I have to engage in to produce a negative for the CF01, though, that's a major plus.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic (May 6, 2021)

My time with the Campfire Audio Comet on the CF01 has been a little less satisfying. Granted, the Comet is also one of those IEMs I've never really grown to appreciate, regardless of the tips I use. For "science," however, I will persevere.

What I'm not grateful for are two things:
the very tight fit on the MMCX connection and the very odd-feeling entry angle these make.

Because the MMCX connection on the Comet is already at an angle, the odd bends caused by also having an angled plug only compounds the problem. Don't get me wrong; I can make this comfortable, but it takes effort. Add that in with a MMCX plug that fits way too snug to the IEM for my comfort and it concerns me. This does complicate removal a little if you've gotten used to the fingernail/pinch method, so do take that into account. This was a shared experience with the T2 Pro as well.

Trying to listen to the Comet with the stock Final Type E tips takes some getting used to. Its single-BA timbre is a marked departure from just about anything I've listened to since I started this TWS journey. I can be very grateful to the CF01 that they're not taking an already _very_ present treble on the Comet and jacking it up further, though, as that would push this combo into "unusable" territory.

I also have to admire how far the treble extends and stays identifiable; my experience with BT adapters in the past have always presented this info as rolled off or added a ton of distortion, but everything here maintains its edge properly. That's worth acknowledging. Not even the Falcon Pro extends like this.

Midrange is plenty present and resolving. It misses out on some of the minor texture variations in stuff like the distortion of oscillating synth lines in Kid Cudi's _Day 'n' Nite. _This, however, is tough to accomplish for a lot of IEMs in this price range.

Sub-bass, sadly, is exactly what people tend to expect from this driver arrangement; that's to say there's not much of it at all. Choose your genres wisely and you won't notice, but a jack of trades this IEM is not. At least in no way as well as the performance T2 Pro just managed to pull off.

Long story short, the CF01 and Campfire Audio Comet do work together, but it's far from the jack-of-all-trades combination I was hoping it would.

_Edit_: I re-ran the sound test using the Spiral Dots, which does help tame some of the harsher treble energy I was experiencing with the Final tips. I attribute this to its wider bore; perhaps the Final was just too restrictive. Much better with the JVCs. My volume threshold for pain with this combo is approximately 50%. Comfortable listening closer to 30%. This is a hyper-efficient combo in terms of volume control.


----------



## SemiAudiophile (May 6, 2021)

Nice, I'm thinking about returning the BT20s pro. Although they sound pretty good, not having volume control and not being able to fit any IEMs inside the shallow case is a deal breaker for me. I do find them more comfortable to wear though with the longer and more flexible hooks. But I just don't think I'll be using them as much due to those issues. I think I'm gonna wait for the next version, where they hopefully fix these basic issues. 

I ordered a MMCX version of the UTWS3 in the meanwhile. Fiio has been pretty responsive in terms of customer support. Still haven't fixed the app connection issues but I'm optimistic.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

SemiAudiophile said:


> Nice, I'm thinking about returning the BT20s pro. Although they sound pretty good, not having volume control and not being able to fit any IEMs inside the shallow case is a deal breaker for me. I do find them more comfortable to wear though with the longer and more flexible hooks. But I just don't think I'll be using them as much due to those issues. I think I'm gonna wait for the next version, where they hopefully fix these basic issues.
> 
> I ordered a MMCX version of the UTWS3 in the meanwhile. Fiio has been pretty responsive in terms of customer support. Still haven't fixed the app connection issues but I'm optimistic.


Also helps that they maintain a presence here; hopefully the Fiio work out better for you than the TRN did.

You couldn't fit _any_ IEMs in the case? That's surprising.


----------



## 100Pipers

Marshall ModeII very small buds and case. Earbuds size is excellent for those of us with small ears.



They don't have acc, just sbx and aptx. The app has a basic 5 band equaliser.
Most vocal centric tws I have heard, no real bass to speak of, very clear. 
No volume control on earbuds (hopefully will be added in a future update), transparent mode insignificant if music playing. Left and right can be used independently. 
Needs wide flat tips, i found included tips too soft, so currently using the comply tips made for the Echobuds, 
case wont close with tall tips, included tips have soft core, all frequencies seemed improved with longer stem tips but they won't fit in the case. Going to get some large spinfit360s, the cp100 don't fit the case (improved bass and isolation tho). They have two types of notification sound, a bleep and what I have come the conclusion are guitar or amplifier sounds although when they occur seems a bit random. The buttons are touch instead of push and have a clicking sound. I couldn't sleep in them as button too sensitive. No connection issues or dropouts on my London underground journey to work yesterday.

 Keeping them


----------



## SemiAudiophile

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Also helps that they maintain a presence here; hopefully the Fiio work out better for you than the TRN did.
> 
> You couldn't fit _any_ IEMs in the case? That's surprising.


I could fit the P1's in there if I wanted to but they would be squished up against the hard plastic, perhaps scuffing them a bit. I wouldn't attempt to try fitting the EST 112 or B2 Dusk.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

SemiAudiophile said:


> I could fit the P1's in there if I wanted to but they would be squished up against the hard plastic, perhaps scuffing them a bit. I wouldn't attempt to try fitting the EST 112 or B2 Dusk.


Ouch that's pretty rough. Fingers crossed for the Fiio, then.


----------



## chinmie

SemiAudiophile said:


> I could fit the P1's in there if I wanted to but they would be squished up against the hard plastic, perhaps scuffing them a bit. I wouldn't attempt to try fitting the EST 112 or B2 Dusk.



when you out it in the case, does the eartips facing down (to the hard plastic) or up (to the mesh cover) ?

i haven't encountered any problems with my IEMs, even the larger multi driver ones with the BT20S pro case


----------



## SemiAudiophile

chinmie said:


> when you out it in the case, does the eartips facing down (to the hard plastic) or up (to the mesh cover) ?
> 
> i haven't encountered any problems with my IEMs, even the larger multi driver ones with the BT20S pro case


With MMCX you can twist the eartips upward. I still don't like the idea of squishing them in there though. These would be impossible with 2-pin unless you detach them first.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

I don't have much to say about this pairing. It has sufficiently shut me up. This combination is yes.

I can't believe you can get this kind of power and fidelity wirelessly. I seriously can't. There's no way this thing should be able to give adequate power to a 5-driver hybrid. No way. And yet, somehow it does.

I think I'm afraid to try the P1 now. Going to stay here for a while.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

This is basically my threshold for volume on the DK-3001 Pro + CF01 combo. Any louder than this and I'm out.

9mW of power my butt. How much juice does this thing really have?!


----------



## SemiAudiophile

miserybeforethemusic said:


> This is basically my threshold for volume on the DK-3001 Pro + CF01 combo. Any louder than this and I'm out.
> 
> 9mW of power my butt. How much juice does this thing really have?!


Ok, we get it. But what about the P1???? 😝


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

SemiAudiophile said:


> Ok, we get it. But what about the P1???? 😝


I want to tell you so bad right now, but I don't want to get ahead of myself.

Give me time on this one.


----------



## SemiAudiophile (May 7, 2021)

I changed my mind. I was able to get the OE adapters to work with the Dunu without cutting out. Only thing is the lid won't close with them on. 😕 The UTWS3 drives them just as good as the BT20s pro, but the latter has perhaps a little better synergy with them. I also went back to the grey tips because they're just moar FUN sounding and the staging is better. So probably gonna cancel my order for the MMCX version. Still gonna wait for the next version of BT20s though.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

SemiAudiophile said:


> I changed my mind. I was able to get the OE adapters to work with the Dunu without cutting out. Only thing is the lid won't close with them on. 😕 The UTWS3 drives them just as good as the BT20s pro, but the latter has perhaps a little better synergy with them. I also went back to the grey tips because they're just moar FUN sounding and the staging is better. So probably gonna cancel my order for the MMCX version. Still gonna wait for the next version of BT20s though.


I love those tips. Very Azla-like, but without having to sacrifice any bottom end. Dunu nailed it with those.


----------



## SemiAudiophile (May 7, 2021)

Weezer sounds amazing with this combo.


----------



## Coop

Received my Melomania Touch yesterday evening. Initial pairing was a breeze, updating the firmware wasn't, left earpiece was no problem, but the right earpiece took about 17 attempts before it succeeded. Seal is good with the small eartips, but I wouldn't mind a size smaller than that. I'm still playing with the wings to find the most comfortable fit.

So far I like the sound. It's nowhere near my JH Audio, but for what I want from a TWS set, it's quite good. One thing annoys me though. Through the Melomania app on my Android phone, I disabled all touch controls, as they are often accidentally activated when trying to find the best way to put them in your ears. But even with all touch controls switched off, they still beep on registering a touch. Anyone found a way to turn that off too?


----------



## bronco1015

tiagopinto said:


> Any burn-in?


Not yet, don't think it's gonna do anything for these. The bass is just poorly tuned imo. This is one of those products that no matter how much I try, I can't mask the poor voicing. To a degree I can with mids especially, but yeah...pretty sure these weren't tuned by the "master"


----------



## C_Lindbergh (May 8, 2021)

24h hours into my 2nd pair of the CA MT and I haven't faced any bugs/connection issues, so yeah seams like they've fixed most issues 

Now I hope they can work on improving the app  I want stuff like customizable touch controls and an option to pause the audio when you enable ambient mode.

For the price of 140 EUR these tws are magnificent, great battery life as well. The only complaint I have is with the touch control, they're very sensitive.


----------



## TK33

bronco1015 said:


> Not yet, don't think it's gonna do anything for these. The bass is just poorly tuned imo. This is one of those products that no matter how much I try, I can't mask the poor voicing. To a degree I can with mids especially, but yeah...pretty sure these weren't tuned by the "master"


Looks like I will be skipping these.  Doesn't sound like my cup of tea.  Was thinking of waiting for their sales to replace my MW07 Go with the MW08 which are starting to fail (left earbud doesn't always connect and volume buttons sometimes don't work but putting both back in the case and reconnecting fixes it).  Getting annoying though.  Back to the skipping generation strategy I guess.


----------



## TK33

miserybeforethemusic said:


> It's what makes me pretty good at my job. Spend a lot of time thinking in the abstract, which really helps when you do a lot of troubleshooting. In this case, I noticed that if I switched from using the Logitech dongle over the BT connection (they do both) while I'm listening to TWS, my cursor sticks like crazy. Adjustments on the trackpad work perfectly.
> 
> Occam's razor suggests BT interference.
> 
> Second monitor first. I'm in the same boat. Really need something with USB-C, DP, and HDMI, which narrows down my options quite a bit. Maybe a size down, too. 32" is a bit silly.


I also use the dongle for my Logitech mouse and keyboard at my desktop (looks like we have the same keyboard) due to terrible Bluetooth connection between one of my Logitech MX Anywhere 3 mice and my laptop.  Interestingly, I started getting interference using the dongle as well and just realized it was because I rearranged my desk yesterday and my router was moved closer to the dongle. If the router gets too close to my speakers then I start hearing noise from my speakers as well.  I imagine this can also wreak havoc on TWS /Bluetooth headphone connections?


----------



## clerkpalmer

The spinfits really do open up the PI7.  Wow. Major major improvement. Whoever commented up thread that it lets you hear the BA driver was right on. They do lose a bit of the warmth but the trade off is well worth it imho. So you guys posting all of your sexy tws adapter and fancy iem pics, it looks like 400 would get me a pretty amazing setup. So, stick with PI7 or grab one of those adapters. The ibasso is gorgeous. I shy away from traditional iems due to fit issues and the fact I hate those long nozzles.


----------



## michsu

Found this online - seems routers causes problems with Bluetooth as well. Maybe having too many wifi connections around is messing up our TWS Bluetooth connections?

https://www.codejourney.net/2017/04/wifi-and-bluetooth-interference-diagnosing-and-fixing/


----------



## CocaCola15

So Sennheiser is selling its personal audio business. Of course, the deal involves more than in-ear headphones, but wonder what the impact will be, if any, on the brand?


----------



## miserybeforethemusic (May 7, 2021)

TK33 said:


> I also use the dongle for my Logitech mouse and keyboard at my desktop (looks like we have the same keyboard) due to terrible Bluetooth connection between one of my Logitech MX Anywhere 3 mice and my laptop.  Interestingly, I started getting interference using the dongle as well and just realized it was because I rearranged my desk yesterday and my router was moved closer to the dongle. If the router gets too close to my speakers then I start hearing noise from my speakers as well.  I imagine this can also wreak havoc on TWS /Bluetooth headphone connections?


All of it emits EMI, especially your router. Have the Master 3, btw. Keep the Anywhere; you don't gain much. I honestly prefer the older scroll wheels.


michsu said:


> Found this online - seems routers causes problems with Bluetooth as well. Maybe having too many wifi connections around is messing up our TWS Bluetooth connections?
> 
> https://www.codejourney.net/2017/04/wifi-and-bluetooth-interference-diagnosing-and-fixing/


It's a chronic issue due to using signals all within the same relative channel/bandwidth (2.4 GHz-5 GHz, 20MHz-40MHz width, thanks to @michsu for the article). Think of a developing part of town. They try to build their roadways in anticipation of the needs of the town. If the town grows beyond those expectations, those roads are probably going to get very congested.

There is _so much _more utilization of these bands, especially with 5G mobile data (which, if it is in your area, will be quite close to where you are at any given point in time relative to 4G and other legacy tech) and it's only getting more congested.

I don't see this problem getting better if you live in the cities. Not to say there's ways B&W could have mitigated it, but the problem is bigger than it appears to be on the surface.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic (May 7, 2021)

CocaCola15 said:


> So Sennheiser is selling its personal audio business. Of course, the deal involves more than in-ear headphones, but wonder what the impact will be, if any, on the brand?


The parent company sounds very Etymotic-like, if they hadn't gone into consumer audio. This could be poised to work out _really _well for Sennheiser if Sonova helps them effetively utilize the new resource.

I'm picturing a MTW2, but in the EFP's body. Might be a pipe dream, but that's where this new partnership has the potential to take Senn's CS division.

...or Sennheiser MTW3 _Customs_


----------



## Caipirina (May 7, 2021)

Canabuc said:


> If you can buy where there is a return policy go for it.
> after everything I have owned including the Sony the 85t jabra and the mTW2 these outlasted all of them as the best overall package for fit comfort sound and features.


You open the box here, you own it   There is no testing and return only (maybe, have not had to try yet) in case of easy to proof warranty case ... i.e. buds obviosuly not working .. .I would not try dispute things like funky charging behavior and such (i.e. the Bose QC buds sometimes connect when they are in case, hence drain battery, Bose knows this and recommend 'go to your Bose service station', which we don't have   ...
I checked some videos and I am not too wild about the looks somehow ... maybe really better to see them in person some day

Random afterthought, felt like playing with my Apollo Bolds again .. and everytime I am reminded how awesome they actually .. and those are considered 'budget'. IMHO ANC is on par with the XM3, the connection is better (or something is wrong with my XM3 .. i get occasional drop outs) and sound quality is maybe only 90% as refined .. then again, my ears are old and forgiving


----------



## miserybeforethemusic (May 7, 2021)

New gen, fresh discount.

I'm tapped on new gear for a while, though. Hopefully someone else gets to take advantage of this:

https://www.adv-sound.com/collections/true-wireless-earphones/products/m5-tws?mc_cid=c7aa1eb03f


----------



## dweaver

CocaCola15 said:


> So Sennheiser is selling its personal audio business. Of course, the deal involves more than in-ear headphones, but wonder what the impact will be, if any, on the brand?


I hope they bring back some relevance to the brand by doing more product updates and research. The past few years Sennheiser started to feel like they were being lapped by other headphone manufacturers.


----------



## clerkpalmer

miserybeforethemusic said:


> New gen, fresh discount.
> 
> I'm tapped on new gear for a while, though. Hopefully someone else gets to take advantage of this:
> 
> https://www.adv-sound.com/collections/true-wireless-earphones/products/m5-tws?mc_cid=c7aa1eb03f


I can’t decide if advanced is a legit audio company or a rebrand company. Some of their full size cans are well regarded. But they got exposed on their tws being a straight rebrand of a lower cost tws. They got pretty defensive about it although in their defense they may have tuned them differently. I don’t consider them much anymore.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

clerkpalmer said:


> I can’t decide if advanced is a legit audio company or a rebrand company. Some of their full size cans are well regarded. But they got exposed on their tws being a straight rebrand of a lower cost tws. They got pretty defensive about it although in their defense they may have tuned them differently. I don’t consider them much anymore.


Interesting and I wasn't familiar with that controversy. I did reach out for a test sample. Won't be surprised if they tell me to kick rocks, but a closed mouth doesn't get fed.


----------



## rhsauer

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Correct. I don't have the TW-200A. While I don't recommend others try this, I basically blind-ordered all 3 sets at about the same time knowing that I'd be tip-rolling a bunch later. I waste money so hopefully other people don't have to.
> 
> For the MT, I recommend Dekoni, but that's with the caveat that they need to be removed every time you need to put them in the case. I know some people won't want to go through with that, though.
> 
> ...


Because of your earlier recommendation, @miserybeforethemusic, I ordered the ePro's (in XL) and have been using them for the last couple of days on my MW08s -- and they're great.  (Probably my new default tips for these earphones.)  The ePros are a bit stiffer than other alternatives, so they take some getting used to -- but they're not uncomfortable.  I know the tips are only one aspect of the sonic characteristics of a set of earphones, but to me the relatively wide but short bore on these tips (and maybe the stiffness of the tips) seems to help the sound feel more upfront, immediate and "present" -- and the bass feels a bit tighter (although I'm reluctant to say that, given the diversity of opinions about the bass on these earphones).  Need to listen more.


----------



## michsu (May 7, 2021)

Just got the PI7. Tried the ANC, it doesn’t even do anything. It’s an awesome seal, but I have my daughter nearby with her zoom class and I can still hear everything. The ambient pass through has more noise, but the auto ANC and the manual ANC is bad. BIG FAIL already. I’m not even going to test the sound.


----------



## CocaCola15 (May 7, 2021)

miserybeforethemusic said:


> New gen, fresh discount.
> 
> I'm tapped on new gear for a while, though. Hopefully someone else gets to take advantage of this:
> 
> https://www.adv-sound.com/collections/true-wireless-earphones/products/m5-tws?mc_cid=c7aa1eb03f


Tempted but I think I bought an early version of this phone on Indiegogo and returned it. Just checked my Indiegogo "campaigns" they sold it as the Model X (looks pretty much like the M5-TWS but different case). Maybe the Model X was the prototype for this phone? I didn't know about their rebranding mode. That was Q1 2019, when I initially bought it.  There are no TW IEMs called Model X on their product page. Not saying they are bad and I can't recall why I returned them (could have been connectivity issues). Anyway, they gave me a full refund.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic (May 7, 2021)

rhsauer said:


> Because of your earlier recommendation, @miserybeforethemusic, I ordered the ePro's (in XL) and have been using them for the last couple of days on my MW08s -- and they're great.  (Probably my new default tips for these earphones.)  The ePros are a bit stiffer than other alternatives, so they take some getting used to -- but they're not uncomfortable.  I know the tips are only one aspect of the sonic characteristics of a set of earphones, but to me the relatively wide but short bore on these tips (and maybe the stiffness of the tips) seems to help the sound feel more upfront, immediate and "present" -- and the bass feels a bit tighter (although I'm reluctant to say that, given the diversity of opinions about the bass on these earphones).  Need to listen more.


I'm so glad you like 'em! My extra sets aren't slated to arrive until Monday (Prime shipping is starting to slack). 100% agree with your assessment on the form factor; it's their ability to grip your ear that really wows me. Somewhat similar to a foam tip, but with silicone instead. Really cool.


CocaCola15 said:


> Tempted but I think I bought an early version of this phone on Indiegogo and returned it. Just checked my Indiegogo "campaigns" they sold it as the Model X (looks pretty much like the M5-TWS but different case). Maybe the Model X was the prototype for this phone? I didn't know about their rebranding mode. That was Q1 2019, when I initially bought it.  There are no TW IEMs called Model X on their product page. Not saying they are bad and I can't recall why I returned them (could have been connectivity issues). Anyway, they gave me a full refund.


Fair enough and I appreciate you folks being willing to share some backstory. Just to be consistent, though, I hope we'd be willing to apply the same standard to a large part of the Chi-Fi market. If ADV is truly just re-branding other people's products under their own name, that might be a problem. If it's a licensing thing, though, I don't know if I see that as much of a negative. Marshall's stuff is really Zound stuff which is also technically UrbanEars, fwiw. The Harman umbrella (which includes JBL) manages to stay decently segregated, but even they're not immune to platform-sharing.

Zound also makes no secret that it's their own product under popular brand names, btw:





Totally willing to be honest about the M5-TWS and ADV in general, though, so I suppose we'll see what sort of response they come back with. Wouldn't be the first time I stuck my neck out on a "maybe" company.


----------



## bronco1015

TK33 said:


> Looks like I will be skipping these.  Doesn't sound like my cup of tea.  Was thinking of waiting for their sales to replace my MW07 Go with the MW08 which are starting to fail (left earbud doesn't always connect and volume buttons sometimes don't work but putting both back in the case and reconnecting fixes it).  Getting annoying though.  Back to the skipping generation strategy I guess.


I think that's a good call. wish I'd followed that strategy for the MTW. The 2 has some nice things and all, but not quite the upgrade it should have been from the MTW1.


----------



## Darkestred

miserybeforethemusic said:


> I'm so glad you like 'em! My extra sets aren't slated to arrive until Monday (Prime shipping is starting to slack). 100% agree with your assessment on the form factor; it's their ability to grip your ear that really wows me. Somewhat similar to a foam tip, but with silicone instead. Really cool.
> 
> Fair enough and I appreciate you folks being willing to share some backstory. Just to be consistent, though, I hope we'd be willing to apply the same standard to a large part of the Chi-Fi market. If ADV is truly just re-branding other people's products under their own name, that might be a problem. If it's a licensing thing, though, I don't know if I see that as much of a negative. Marshall's stuff is really Zound stuff which is also technically UrbanEars, fwiw. The Harman umbrella (which includes JBL) manages to stay decently segregated, but even they're not immune to platform-sharing.
> 
> ...




Yeah its the Model X.  Anyways, there was talks about this before on the forums i believe.  Its also discussed on adv telegram.  If i recall they provided designs to other companies or the designs were stolen.  Something along those lines.


----------



## tinyman392

ADV also has their M5 available as a custom shell.  I'm not sure how much I would factor into getting a custom though since TWS don't seem to have the longest shelf life... If the battery were user replaceable I'd definitely say that's an awesome venture to get into (a custom TWS).


----------



## miserybeforethemusic (May 7, 2021)

tinyman392 said:


> ADV also has their M5 available as a custom shell.  I'm not sure how much I would factor into getting a custom though since TWS don't seem to have the longest shelf life... If the battery were user replaceable I'd definitely say that's an awesome venture to get into (a custom TWS).


That's honestly what caught my attention in the first place; a custom TWS sounded awesome, but it didn't look that user-friendly the more I read into it. They charge via plug-in instead of charging pin contacts, but that makes sense given the custom nature of the product.

Now that Custom Art is also in the game, at least there's choices. From the mastermind behind FIBAE, no less.


Darkestred said:


> Yeah its the Model X.  Anyways, there was talks about this before on the forums i believe.  Its also discussed on adv telegram.  If i recall they provided designs to other companies or the designs were stolen.  Something along those lines.


So did someone use ADV's design without approval? Think that's the context I'm getting here.


----------



## Peter Yoon

miserybeforethemusic said:


> That's honestly what caught my attention in the first place; a custom TWS sounded awesome, but it didn't look that user-friendly the more I read into it. They charge via plug-in instead of charging pin contacts, but that makes sense given the custom nature of the product.
> 
> Now that Custom Art is also in the game, at least there's choices. From the mastermind behind FIBAE, no less.
> 
> So did someone use ADV's design without approval? Think that's the context I'm getting here.


We offer collection of products that are produced in-house and contract manufactured as with most other companies.


----------



## tinyman392

miserybeforethemusic said:


> That's honestly what caught my attention in the first place; a custom TWS sounded awesome, but it didn't look that user-friendly the more I read into it. They charge via plug-in instead of charging pin contacts, but that makes sense given the custom nature of the product.
> 
> Now that Custom Art is also in the game, at least there's choices. From the mastermind behind FIBAE, no less.
> 
> So did someone use ADV's design without approval? Think that's the context I'm getting here.


They could in theory make a charging case for it and redesign the housing so the charging contacts are on the outside of the housing.  Though I'm not sure how well that will do for water resistance.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

Peter Yoon said:


> We offer collection of products that are produced in-house and contract manufactured as with most other companies.


Makes a lot of sense and that's why I was asking for clarification. Working in biotech, I understand contract manufacturing quite well.

Thank you!


----------



## Peter Yoon

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Makes a lot of sense and that's why I was asking for clarification. Working in biotech, I understand contract manufacturing quite well.
> 
> Thank you!


Always appreciate getting to know new people interested in the brand!


----------



## michsu (May 7, 2021)

Sorry if it may not be in the right group. I’m returning the PI7, and planning on buying a pair of headphones instead. What’s the best pair for ANC and sound? I’m just looking at the two big ones (Sony MX4 and Bose 700). Any other ones? Thank you.
I just looked at Sennheiser Momentum 3. It seems to have better sound quality but worse ANC.


----------



## mainguy

erockg said:


> Three mile walk and nothing but dropouts with the B&W PI5.  No, I don't have a metal plate in my head.  What.  This is awful.  I can't even adjust them in my ears without them pausing and/or losing BT connection.  Something is definitely up.  I've reset, repaired, rebooted, you name it.  Sure, they are okay if I'm sitting at my desk, but what is the fun in that???


Blimey. What a disaster.


michsu said:


> Sorry if it may not be in the right group. I’m returning the PI7, and planning on buying a pair of headphones instead. What’s the best pair for ANC and sound? I’m just looking at the two big ones (Sony MX4 and Bose 700). Any other ones? Thank you.


Ive tried most bluetooth anc cans, the Airpods Max and Sennheiser Momentum sound the best. The airpods max have the best ANC by a wide margin, then its XM4. In my opinion at least.


----------



## michsu

mainguy said:


> Blimey. What a disaster.
> 
> Ive tried most bluetooth anc cans, the Airpods Max and Sennheiser Momentum sound the best. The airpods max have the best ANC by a wide margin, then its XM4. In my opinion at least.


So Apple is the best overall with sound quality and ANC?


----------



## mainguy

michsu said:


> So Apple is the best overall with sound quality and ANC?


Yes no doubt about it. Shop around, i got mine on ebay for £420 practically brand new, if you want to save a bit.


----------



## Mr.Toad (May 7, 2021)

michsu said:


> Sorry if it may not be in the right group. I’m returning the PI7, and planning on buying a pair of headphones instead. What’s the best pair for ANC and sound? I’m just looking at the two big ones (Sony MX4 and Bose 700). Any other ones? Thank you.
> I just looked at Sennheiser Momentum 3. It seems to have better sound quality but worse ANC.


To my ears the MX4 has the best ANC and, after some EQ, pretty acceptable sound. B&O H95 has better sound (best of MX4, M3 and Aonic 50 imo), worse ANC. Momentum 3 has exciting sound that becomes wearing after a while - best soundstage, though and average ANC. Shure Aonic 50 middling ANC, clean but unexciting sound.

I EQ all my wireless phones with Wavelet to suit my taste - H95 still wins on sound.


----------



## samandhi

michsu said:


> So Apple is the best overall with sound quality and ANC?


This is just my opinion, but the Sennheiser Momentum 2.0 wireless are the best sounding  ANC headphones I have heard (plus they are pretty cheap comparatively right now. I have not heard the 3, but from everything I have read Sennheiser went the "consumer sound" route with these. Also keep in mind Sennheiser made the ANC on these purposeful for plane or train travel. This means that it will cut out all lows, and some lower mids, but keeps voices (so you can hear the flight attendant for instance). So, if you are wanting something that will cut out ALL then these aren't the ones you want. But if you want good battery life, excellent sound, and great ANC in the range it was meant to be, give these a try.


----------



## michsu

Thanks for all the quick replies. I’ll see if I can get them. Unlike Bowers, I can probably get them also directly from Apple (probably for latest firmware) or Amazon and Ebay and return with fewer issues.


----------



## erockg

michsu said:


> So Apple is the best overall with sound quality and ANC?


APM are awesome.  But beware they are a tighter fit than the SM.  SMs are like pillows on your ears.  That said, APM blow them away in every other aspect if you're in the Apple ecosystem.  I flipped my APM on eBay because of the tight fit.  Some days I felt it, others not so much.  I use my TWS a lot more.  Just my two cents...


----------



## michsu

Thank you. I’m choosing  the Airpro Max, but just deciding on a color for now. It looks like I need a case too. The one that comes with it isn’t so good.


----------



## jhwalker

michsu said:


> Thank you. I’m choosing  the Airpro Max, but just deciding on a color for now. It looks like I need a case too. The one that comes with it isn’t so good.


I actually like the case provided quite well - it's minimal, but It does what it needs to do and doesn't take up a lot of space  🤷‍♂️


----------



## michsu

jhwalker said:


> I actually like the case provided quite well - it's minimal, but It does what it needs to do and doesn't take up a lot of space  🤷‍♂️


Do you need the cover protection, like what spigen carries for it?
Spigen Ultra Hybrid PRO Designed for Airpods Max Case Cover Protective Ear Cup Covers - Crystal Clear https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08SJCR8W...abc_P5RZN3MKTYN8J46MK3GX?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1

Also, I’m looking at this case (nothing fancy). 
However, it can do the deep sleep.

SAMYERLEN Smart Case for AirPods Max Headphones with Sleep Mode Function, Protective Hard Shell Travel Carrying Bag with Cable Storage, Compact Design Storage Accessories for Apple AirPods Max https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08VN94QN...abc_26JPBQZX1RB7591P80XS?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1


----------



## bronco1015

samandhi said:


> This is just my opinion, but the Sennheiser Momentum 2.0 wireless are the best sounding  ANC headphones I have heard (plus they are pretty cheap comparatively right now. I have not heard the 3, but from everything I have read Sennheiser went the "consumer sound" route with these. Also keep in mind Sennheiser made the ANC on these purposeful for plane or train travel. This means that it will cut out all lows, and some lower mids, but keeps voices (so you can hear the flight attendant for instance). So, if you are wanting something that will cut out ALL then these aren't the ones you want. But if you want good battery life, excellent sound, and great ANC in the range it was meant to be, give these a try.


I tried the momentum 2.0 on a steep discount at the end of 2016. They were the muddiest,...i've got nothing nice to say about sq from there. killer Bluetooth range, something like 200 feet from my desk, walking past a server room among other things. The M3 have alot less bass than M2.0 in default setting. it's not neutral by any definition, but it's not tuned like a pair of Skullcandy headphones, which is exactly how i'd describe the 2.0.


----------



## Caipirina

michsu said:


> Sorry if it may not be in the right group. I’m returning the PI7, and planning on buying a pair of headphones instead. What’s the best pair for ANC and sound? I’m just looking at the two big ones (Sony MX4 and Bose 700). Any other ones? Thank you.
> I just looked at Sennheiser Momentum 3. It seems to have better sound quality but worse ANC.


Maybe also look at the Bose QC 35? Those have been my main cans for years now and I LOVE them. I tried the 700 when they came out and I did not see / feel / hear anything that made me want to upgrade ...


----------



## SemiAudiophile

Listening to some Black Keys this morning with the UTWS3 and ZAX combo. I am reminded just how good the ZAX are at layering. The Black Keys sound amazing and this combo is an excellent match. 

I'm chillin at a Dunkin, sippin on a iced cappuccino with these in my ears. Life is good.


----------



## C_Lindbergh

Feels quite nice to finally be pleased by my CA MT  I'll keep these until Bluetooth audio Le/LC3 finally arrives. I hope that Cambridge Audio makes a new version of the MT touch with LC3/ANC, I really like their "house sound".


----------



## guido

yup, love the UTWS3 with the ZAX, excellent synergy….got a second set of UTWS3 with MMCX connectors and trying them with DUNU DK-3001 pros….also really good, excellent detail and very
 neutral


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

guido said:


> yup, love the UTWS3 with the ZAX, excellent synergy….got a second set of UTWS3 with MMCX connectors and trying them with DUNU DK-3001 pros….also really good, excellent detail and very
> neutral


That DK-3001 Pro/CF01 combo is so good. Wholeheartedly know what you mean.


----------



## pkcpga

MFHRaptor said:


> By Nobles, do you mean the Falcon Pro?
> If so, and regardless of connection issues, I would like to ask how does the B&W PI7 compare to the Falcon Pro in sound quality, and soundstage?
> 
> The Galaxy Buds Pro are the only Samsung earbuds I have, but if you're contesting musicality and pure sound quality between it and the Buds +, I wouldn't even recommend the Buds Pro for their sound. Get them for their myriad of technological features, or that 360°/3D sound feature (if you own a One UI 3.1 device).


Was giving the PI7 a chance to break in and for myself to get used to their sound signature.  I’m returning the PI7’s for myself they are not worth the price.  Longest battery life with anc off was 3 and a half hours, most frequent battery life was 3 hours 18 minutes.  ANC I only tried a few times, was not impressed as it adds to much artificial noise to cover background noise.  Does not mask voices well, but some brands purposely leave mids in case you want to hear someone trying to talk to you.  
Nobles Falcon Pro verse the PI7, they really are fairly similar in sound quality with a few differences.  The PI7 has better EQ out of the box, but has no EQ option in its app.  The PI7 is a little mid bass heavy for my liking but I could live with it if battery life and dropped connection wasn’t a major issue.  The Noble Falcon Pro and PI7 have very similar sound stage, width and depth, both are good for wireless iem but otherwise just ok.  Both have good amount of detail, best I’ve heard for Bluetooth iem, the Noble requires EQing, out of box it’s a bit strange, although this is easy to do with a 10 way EQ in the app.  The Noble holds the EQ no matter which device you connect it to or even open the app which is great, I wish they all did this.  PI7 has no EQ in app and very little controls on the earbuds.  You need to be near your device for doing almost anything and I’ve had many disconnect issues when walking around.  Wether my phone is in my pocket or stationary while I walk around both inside and outside.  That may get fixed in an update.  The PI7 has 3 to 3 1/2 hour battery life compared to Noble at 8 to 8 1/2 hour battery life.  The Noble only has passive noise canceling by sitting fairly deep in your ear, which works better then the active noise cancelling on the PI7.  PI7 doesn’t block nearby talking well, Sony is much better at that.  Both are comfortable to wear, light in weight.  Noble has a bit more mid details and slightly better timing in the bass region.  The B&W has better high details, with spin fit they get nicely detailed, but mid bass is bloated and does slow down the timing a bit.  I feel if you could EQ a little this would drastically help this.  For myself I’ll stick with the Nobles, between battery life, drop outs, not great active noise cancelling and similar sound quality to the Noble at more money they are not worth keeping.  Going back Monday, not sure if Crutchfields sells returns at a discount, if it does mine will be on there next week.


----------



## Jaunty

In case of interest to anyone the M&D MW07 Plus in the Nike KD13 colours are currently 50% off direct from M&D with the code HYPE. I have a pair inbound in the U.K. for £114.50 delivered.


----------



## LordToneeus

SemiAudiophile said:


> Listening to some Black Keys this morning with the UTWS3 and ZAX combo. I am reminded just how good the ZAX are at layering. The Black Keys sound amazing and this combo is an excellent match.
> 
> I'm chillin at a Dunkin, sippin on a iced cappuccino with these in my ears. Life is good.


That exact combo is exactly what I’ve been using for workouts. It completely satisfies.


----------



## mainguy

Jaunty said:


> In case of interest to anyone the M&D MW07 Plus in the Nike KD13 colours are currently 50% off direct from M&D with the code HYPE. I have a pair inbound in the U.K. for £114.50 delivered.


Yeah i saw that. I was very close to ordering, then spent £350 on the PI7. Lets see if its regrettable or not.

At 115 i think theyre a steal tbh


----------



## J_3000 (May 10, 2021)

Thanks for the tip! Bought the MW07 Plus for 125€ including shipping. It was too good of a deal to pass!

I had the MT's, but returned them because of all the problems with connectivity etc. I was using them with OnePlus 8 Pro and my Carbon X1 g7 laptop. After reading about the update, i reordered them from Amazon again arriving tomorrow.

I also have the Fiio UTWS3, but I got glasses couple of months ago and over the ear hooks just arent the best fit with glasses. I still like them and will keep them for now, but time will tell how much I will be using them.

I also had the Shure RMCE-TW1's (before I had glasses) but sold them. The design was probably the best from any over the ear hooks, but offering only controls to play stop answer a call isnt enough for me.


----------



## samandhi

J_3000 said:


> Thanks for the tip! Bought the MW07 Plus for 125€ including shipping. It was too a deal good to pass!
> 
> I had the MT's, but returned them because of all the problems with connectivity etc. I was using them with OnePlus 8 Pro and my Carbon X1 g7 laptop. After reading about the update, i reordered them from Amazon again arriving tomorrow.
> 
> ...


IMO, you will be glad you reordered the MT. The (undocumented) change in sound signature is fantastic, not to mention the fixes that they implemented (that worked). I would bet the new tuning will please both consumer friendly and audiophile preferences alike (for the most part). They really are almost like a unicorn in that way. I remember when I first got them. I thought that they were just terrible! I am so glad I held on to them (actually I didn't decide that, I was just too lazy to send them back LOL). 

I would be interested in hearing any thoughts you might feel like sharing on the UTWS3 also.


----------



## guido

for me the UTWS3 is a no-brainer…it simply blows away every other wireless IEMs I have owned, it is not even a close call and for often half the price of the higher end offerings..

comfort wise I find them excellent and they fit very securely , no problem with spectacles either, way better than the Sony WF that alway felt like they were going to fall out (same story with the Senn MTW)


----------



## samandhi

guido said:


> for me the UTWS3 is a no-brainer…it simply blows away every other wireless IEMs I have owned, it is not even a close call and for often half the price of the higher end offerings..
> 
> comfort wise I find them excellent and they fit very securely , no problem with spectacles either, way better than the Sony WF that alway felt like they were going to fall out (same story with the Senn MTW)


Have you had opportunity to compare the UTWS3 with the iBasso CF01?


----------



## C_Lindbergh

Personally I don't think you should compare ordinary tws with these tws adapters...

A True-Wireless earbud is all about convenience and portability, the earbuds are small, the case is small, you got features like ANC/ambient mode which is awesome when you're out and about. 

Whereas true-wireless adapters like the UTWS3/CF01 are big and bulky (both case and the actual adapter), there's also no ANC/ambient mode. Obviously they will sound much better since ordinary IEMS dont need to make room for all various tech components like a tws. There's also plenty of space in the actual adapters for better amps etc. 

They're two completely different products.


----------



## Jaunty

C_Lindbergh said:


> Personally I don't think you should compare ordinary tws with these tws adapters...
> 
> A True-Wireless earbud is all about convenience and portability, the earbuds are small, the case is small, you got features like ANC/ambient mode which is awesome when you're out and about.
> 
> ...


Agreed. Mentioning them without saying what IEMs they’re driving for the comparison seems even less relevant.


----------



## Tstorey

Jaunty said:


> In case of interest to anyone the M&D MW07 Plus in the Nike KD13 colours are currently 50% off direct from M&D with the code HYPE. I have a pair inbound in the U.K. for £114.50 delivered.


Thanks for the heads up, after ruminating for ages on whether I can justify the £279 for the MW08 these seem an absolute steal. Also went for the slim reaper as the most subtle of them all (it’s all relative 😂). Looking forward to trying these out.


----------



## mainguy (May 9, 2021)

Tstorey said:


> Thanks for the heads up, after ruminating for ages on whether I can justify the £279 for the MW08 these seem an absolute steal. Also went for the slim reaper as the most subtle of them all (it’s all relative 😂). Looking forward to trying these out.


They’re great tws. I had the GO for a while which are identical, they have an interesting and very punchy signature. Ideal for workouts. At £115 its a heck of a deal tbh.


----------



## zeinharis

The new WF-1000XM4?!

















I liked the new design, if it’s true.

source : https://thewalkmanblog.blogspot.com/2021/05/sony-wf-1000xm4-full-design-leaked.html?m=1


----------



## tiagopinto

C_Lindbergh said:


> Feels quite nice to finally be pleased by my CA MT  I'll keep these until Bluetooth audio Le/LC3 finally arrives. I hope that Cambridge Audio makes a new version of the MT touch with LC3/ANC, I really like their "house sound".



Glad you’re enjoying them. I too am eager for what’s coming...


----------



## jant71

zeinharis said:


> The new WF-1000XM4?!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


The only thing I don't like is that they should probably have a button as well as the touch control. Are they gonna leave off volume control again like the XM3 with track controls on right and ambient/ANC/answer calls on the left.


----------



## zeinharis

jant71 said:


> The only thing I don't like is that they should probably have a button as well as the touch control. Are they gonna leave off volume control again like the XM3 with track controls on right and ambient/ANC/answer calls on the left.


Yeah, I’m guessing that too. One more thing, the XM4 are using looks like a foam tips if you looked at the pictures, it is likely that the XM4 have a brighter sound vs the XM3, but still we have to see and hear the final product.


----------



## clerkpalmer

jant71 said:


> The only thing I don't like is that they should probably have a button as well as the touch control. Are they gonna leave off volume control again like the XM3 with track controls on right and ambient/ANC/answer calls on the left.


Has it already been established LDAC will not be onboard ?


----------



## LordToneeus

C_Lindbergh said:


> Personally I don't think you should compare ordinary tws with these tws adapters...
> 
> A True-Wireless earbud is all about convenience and portability, the earbuds are small, the case is small, you got features like ANC/ambient mode which is awesome when you're out and about.
> 
> ...


I’m gonna push back a little here. These adapters are truly wireless. There’s no cable tethering you to your source or tethering the earbuds to each other, making them a heck of a lot more convenient.  And you can pick your favorite iem’s.
Now on the continuum of truly wireless earbuds, are they less convenient and less feature-rich than made to order TWS? Yep. But I contend they absolutely belong in a discussion of truly wireless earbuds, and I’m thankful for the proponents who have chimed in.


----------



## clerkpalmer

LordToneeus said:


> I’m gonna push back a little here. These adapters are truly wireless. There’s no cable tethering you to your source or tethering the earbuds to each other, making them a heck of a lot more convenient.  And you can pick your favorite iem’s.
> Now on the continuum of truly wireless earbuds, are they less convenient and less feature-rich than made to order TWS? Yep. But I contend they absolutely belong in a discussion of truly wireless earbuds, and I’m thankful for the proponents who have chimed in.


I definitely think they should be included in this discussion. And while they are somewhat different products, comparisons are fair even though I think the adapters are niche products.  Depending on someone’s priorities, an adapter plus iem may be the best tws experience for them. For me personally, I do prefer the all in convenience of the tws products over the adapters. I find myself going wired with iems even though I have the adapters but some of the more recent posts have me considering trying one of these newer adapters.  As technology improves, regular tws may approach the sound quality of the adapter combos while at the same time the adapters will get even better. Will be fun to watch things develop.

In any event, the broader the discussion here the better and there is room for both.


----------



## Peddler

I'm pleased to see the ibasso CF01 finally getting some attention on the forum - I'm using them in combination with their IT00's and I have to say that they really are rather remarkable. 

Whilst admittedly they're bulky - especially the case, but once you're wearing them they really are just like standard TWS Earbuds except that tend to have a more secure fit due to their form factor. 

Power output is insane and the sound quality is very pure and accurate in my opinion. I just wish they had better controls - benefits from being used with a smartwatch.


----------



## mt877

jant71 said:


> The only thing I don't like is that they should probably have a button as well as the touch control. Are they gonna leave off volume control again like the XM3 with track controls on right and ambient/ANC/answer calls on the left.


Sony added volume control in one of the XM3 FW updates. Then had to config in headphone connect app. It was choose ANC or volume control on left side.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic (May 9, 2021)

C_Lindbergh said:


> Personally I don't think you should compare ordinary tws with these tws adapters...
> 
> A True-Wireless earbud is all about convenience and portability, the earbuds are small, the case is small, you got features like ANC/ambient mode which is awesome when you're out and about.
> 
> ...


And that's why I'm going to be working on getting a UTWS3 into the stable. Really curious to see the differences in approach to control scheme, ergonomics, and amplification. Might be a while, though. I've definitely gone hog-wild on the new stuff lately.

Yeah, sonically, this is a one-sided fist fight. The genuine TWS products are far more feature-rich (usually) and I do find it irritating that there is currently no way to do firmware updates on the CF01, nor do I see any indication of that changing soon.


LordToneeus said:


> I’m gonna push back a little here. These adapters are truly wireless. There’s no cable tethering you to your source or tethering the earbuds to each other, making them a heck of a lot more convenient.  And you can pick your favorite iem’s.
> Now on the continuum of truly wireless earbuds, are they less convenient and less feature-rich than made to order TWS? Yep. But I contend they absolutely belong in a discussion of truly wireless earbuds, and I’m thankful for the proponents who have chimed in.


Thanks buddy. I'm sure the ire on that OT/derailment is aimed at me. I'll work on finding a middle. Maybe just link the impressions directly to the related IEM page or something.


Peddler said:


> I'm pleased to see the ibasso CF01 finally getting some attention on the forum - I'm using them in combination with their IT00's and I have to say that they really are rather remarkable.
> 
> Whilst admittedly they're bulky - especially the case, but once you're wearing them they really are just like standard TWS Earbuds except that tend to have a more secure fit due to their form factor.
> 
> Power output is insane and the sound quality is very pure and accurate in my opinion. I just wish they had better controls - benefits from being used with a smartwatch.


What's funny is I find the case bulky, but the adapters absolutely aren't. They're really small. The braided wire earhook is perfectly comfortable, even for those with glasses. Helps me to remind them it's basically a replacement for the cable with a built-in microphone and a couple buttons that I can occasionally use for limited controls.

But these can hang with the rest in terms of usability. I just spent hours yesterday detailing a car with the P1 plugged into the CF01 and never once did they budge, slip out, fall off the ears, or give me any discomfort. No neckband in the past has been capable of doing this for me, and certainly not with this much power.

I'll spare the suspense on whether the CF01 can drive the P1. Yes it can, with caveats. I'll take the caveats to the P1 page if preferred, or can answer them here for any curious. It's going to be a mixed bag for some, dealbreaker for others, and a "sign me up" for even others.

But it gives the DK-3001 Pro/CF01 combo a serious run for its money (and surpasses in some regards). You will darn near max out headroom, but you can definitely pull it off.

Would have written this sooner, but been working behind the scenes with @samandhi to make sure this testing is done as fairly as possible and we've learned a thing or two about sending _any_ BT signal out in the process. _That_ sort of stuff we'll be very pleased to share in the upcoming days.

But today is Mother's Day in the states (and hopefully abroad), compounded with Nurses' Week. As my wife is both and out of my tremendous respect for her, today goes to anything she needs. I wish ALL of the mothers out there a very happy Mother's Day and all those who put their lives (and sanity) on the line in the name of healthcare the best darn Nurses' Week anybody can get. May your admin thank you genuinely, keep the donuts at home for a change, and show you your proper dues.

I mean you've already been through the gauntlet for a year already...


----------



## SemiAudiophile (May 9, 2021)

clerkpalmer said:


> I definitely think they should be included in this discussion. And while they are somewhat different products, comparisons are fair even though I think the adapters are niche products.  Depending on someone’s priorities, an adapter plus iem may be the best tws experience for them. For me personally, I do prefer the all in convenience of the tws products over the adapters. I find myself going wired with iems even though I have the adapters but some of the more recent posts have me considering trying one of these newer adapters.  As technology improves, regular tws may approach the sound quality of the adapter combos while at the same time the adapters will get even better. Will be fun to watch things develop.
> 
> In any event, the broader the discussion here the better and there is room for both.


I've been preferring the sound of the TWS adapters over wired tbh. I think the synergy plays a huge part and I don't notice a drop in sound quality really.

The UTWS3 for example is very high quality and pairs excellently with the Dusk and ZAX. The BT20S pro is very good as well and pairs better with EST 112 and P1.

I still prefer using my Hip DAC for the P1 just because it can drive them to louder volumes. But for the rest of my IEMs, I've been solely using them with TWS adapters.

Also ANC/ambient mode aren't important features for me unless I'm in a really noisy environment like a plane. But I have the old Sony WH-1000xm2 for that. 

Listening to the UTWS3 and ZAX combo yesterday, I thought sounded just as good if not better than some of the $1k+ headphone rigs I've setup in the past.


----------



## samandhi

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Thanks buddy. I'm sure the ire on that OT/derailment is aimed at me. I'll work on finding a middle. Maybe just link the impressions directly to the related IEM page or something.


I think that as long as you are keeping with the true nature of the title of the thread, and are conveying your thoughts (and discussions) about the adaptors, and not as much about the IEMs, then you are following the topic that was intended (if not at least the spirit of the original thought). Because, while I do agree with @C_Lindbergh that they are different and there is no comparison sonically, I don't believe that they are so different that they don't warrant discussion on here. After all "true wireless" is true wireless regardless the shape they take. 

I have a feeling that as these TWS adaptors become more popular, they will start adding things like ANC and Passthrough. The only reason they haven't yet IMO is because these adaptors are more targeted to the discerned listener (and a niche market), and not so much the people out and about on their daily lives. When companies find that there is a market for such things, they will be added to increase their profit margins, and remain competitive (and relevant) . 

I don't think that these will ever replace TWS earbuds, or the other way around either. I think there will always be a market for both, and TWS IEMs will catch up to the adaptors in sound quality at some point. With the bright idea of removing headphone jacks from (most) all phones, there will even be new innovations that we might not have considered to this point. TWS have a head-start on these adaptors in a way. TWS was starting to become a thing even before headphone jacks were removed. Now that more and more people are forced to either carry more than one device around, or go BT, there is a need for everything wireless. 

True audiophiles won't bock at spending $1k for just one piece of equipment, but there is a growing number of audiophiles that are more of a hybrid animal. They still crave the quality in sound, but are looking more for avenues that save them some money, time, conveniences, etc... BT in general has not quite caught up with wired sound, but the gap is closing, and IMO these adaptors are an important step in helping to close this gap.

It is also my opinion that as long as we keep the discussion going, the word gets out, and they are not forgotten. Which means that companies will green light new projects, and more innovation. I would argue that this site in general (Head-Fi) is a pretty important tool for companies to get feedback on what is trending, what works well, tech used, etc (not that it is the ONLY site out there, but important nonetheless)...

Sorry to make this so long! I just wanted to share my thoughts, and I hope I have not offended anyone?!


----------



## clerkpalmer

samandhi said:


> I think that as long as you are keeping with the true nature of the title of the thread, and are conveying your thoughts (and discussions) about the adaptors, and not as much about the IEMs, then you are following the topic that was intended


Mostly, yes. But we do need/want to understand synergy between iems and adapters. Some adapters work better/worse with certain iems. I am enjoying reading about good matches for these adapters.


----------



## samandhi

clerkpalmer said:


> Mostly, yes. But we do need/want to understand synergy between iems and adapters. Some adapters work better/worse with certain iems. I am enjoying reading about good matches for these adapters.


Oh, I agree with this. I just meant that there might exist a fine line where the conversation might be all about the IEMs and not the adapters that power them, or the combination as a whole that make them TWS to begin with that could take the conversation totally off topic. 

And I am enjoying reading about them too!


----------



## C_Lindbergh

Well I do hope that they make adapters with small cases at some point, and hopefully improve all the tech related stuff like an ambient mode etc.


----------



## assassin10000

Regarding the new XM4.


assassin10000 said:


> Looks like it'll fit me better than the XM3 ever did. Hope it retains it's excellent ANC and improves it's sound, it'll be a class leader if it does.
> 
> I also hope thats a pressure relief like the adel system. That would be really neat and possibly a first.



As far as adapters, I like to hear about them and feel they fit in well here. Also like hearing about good combo's too. Comparisons of them (vs each other or even TWS), features, etc. All help.


I do agree they have larger cases than TWS but thats a by product of the market their aimed at. They need to be able to fit the IEM they'll be used with inside with them. TRN failed that with the BT20S Pro case. The UTWS3 missed the mark for me by lacking Qi.

I still use my older BT20S which fits in a smaller zippered case, which is as small or smaller than many TWS ones.


----------



## SemiAudiophile (May 9, 2021)

Just downloaded Wavelet yesterday and started to play around with it. Gotta say I love this lil app. It's so clean and easy to use. And the autoEQ is fantastic!




Listening to KoC's latest album. The vocals which were already excellent are even more palpable now. I'm in awe.


----------



## dweaver

H


zeinharis said:


> The new WF-1000XM4?!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That round gold antenna thing is intriguing. They says it an antenna and touch pad? If tough pad is pretty small target to find without sight. They suggest hi res in that walkman article so these might support ldac. I question how stable a connection be achieved  though, so might not a great all the time connection option.


----------



## bandario

dweaver said:


> I question how stable a connection be achieved though


I assume that's what the external antenna is for. If these have LDAC and APT-X I will buy them in a heartbeat.


----------



## cresny

dweaver said:


> H
> 
> That round gold antenna thing is intriguing. They says it an antenna and touch pad? If tough pad is pretty small target to find without sight. They suggest hi res in that walkman article so these might support ldac. I question how stable a connection be achieved  though, so might not a great all the time connection option.


Apparently that's actually the feed-forward mic: https://thewalkmanblog.blogspot.com/2021/03/sony-wf-1000xm4-all-facts-and-rumours.html?m=1


----------



## alsorkin

Mr.Toad said:


> Yes, that's when I get bluetooth sputtering, too: walking with phone in my pocket. It doesn't disconnect, just cuts out for a second.


Sputtering with my DAPs but not with my Galaxy smartphones. Stronger BT transmitter on the phones I assume.


----------



## dweaver

LOL the feedforward mic! Interesting TWS for sure! I will be watching it closely when its release. Hopefully is has good bass but is a balanced detailed signature.


----------



## bandario

cresny said:


> Apparently that's actually the feed-forward mic: https://thewalkmanblog.blogspot.com/2021/03/sony-wf-1000xm4-all-facts-and-rumours.html?m=1


I don't really know what this means.

Is there any chance these will be useable as a gaming headset on PC? Fairly frustrating having $400 headphones where you can't use the mic at the same time as proper quality sound.


----------



## Slowhand

New update on the website where the WF-1000xm4 leak was posted. Early June would be great if true.


----------



## bladefd (May 9, 2021)

bandario said:


> I assume that's what the external antenna is for. If these have LDAC and APT-X I will buy them in a heartbeat.


XM4 won't have aptx because they didn't use a qualcomm chip.

It will either have LDAC or stick with AAC/SBC like xm3. The latter might be bit disappointing, but it will be a sign that current generation is unable to do very advanced codecs beyond regular aptx/aac. If that's the case, I would just wait patiently with what I have until Bluetooth LE in next generation.


----------



## clerkpalmer (May 9, 2021)

Did some ANC testing today with my pi7. It’s definitely noticeable and better than nothing. It seems to do much better with low end rumble than high frequency. It cut all of the noise on my dryer nicely. With respect to my gym fan, it gets the low hum out but the fan is still noticeable and loud particularly at the higher frequencies. Nothing earth shattering here but it’s more effective than initially thought.


----------



## clerkpalmer

Slowhand said:


> New update on the website where the WF-1000xm4 leak was posted. Early June would be great if true.


Early June means preorders should be opening imminently as it’s usually about a month.


----------



## Caipirina

zeinharis said:


> The new WF-1000XM4?!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I gotten very much used to oval tips being a much better fit, my top 3 are all oval (Jabra 85, Bose QC, APP), so, seeing those round tips again .. somehow not convinced about the fit ... yet ... let's see .. will be months anyways before i can see / test / buy them .. xmas maybe


----------



## Slowhand

clerkpalmer said:


> Early June means preorders should be opening imminently as it’s usually about a month.



Maybe it is announced in June and starts shipping in July in that case?


----------



## Thesonofkrypton (May 10, 2021)

June is good.  Can't wait to see the product shots my mate took. I'm still holding out for a late may release/announcement.

Perhaps that gold circular design element on the earpiece is some kind of controller?  What do you guys think?


----------



## zeinharis (May 10, 2021)

Caipirina said:


> I gotten very much used to oval tips being a much better fit, my top 3 are all oval (Jabra 85, Bose QC, APP), so, seeing those round tips again .. somehow not convinced about the fit ... yet ... let's see .. will be months anyways before i can see / test / buy them .. xmas maybe


Yeah, we need to see, feel and hear about the final product.

On another TWS, hearing the Nuarl N10 Plus on this comparison video makes me excited about it, can’t wait for mine to arrived!

Nuarl N10 Plus


----------



## dasadab

Where did you buy them from.  Amazon doesn’t carry any of the latest models?  Thanks.


----------



## assassin10000

Repurchased the Beans/Buds Live.

I wonder if the updates changed the sound signature (for the better). I like them more than I recall. Minor EQ to bring the harman curve down a bit towards my personal preferences.

ANC still boosts the bass too much. EQ tunable tho.


----------



## dweaver

How comfortable are the beans? Do they stay put or need constant adjusting?


----------



## assassin10000

dweaver said:


> How comfortable are the beans? Do they stay put or need constant adjusting?


Pretty comfortable. Minimal adjustment needed. In the last 3-4 hours of use, I've adjusted the right side one time.

I have small ears and replace their 'wings' with an o-ring. I can wear them without either. The wings after 30 min (L) to 2 hours (S) give me a hot spot on the outer ear.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

Put the FITS on today for the first time in a while. Still have a wonky fit on the Right bud which does cause an imbalance (can notice it more on the lower frequencies), so I reached out to UE/Logitech one more time. Don't even care if I have to pay for another set; I'll give it one more go.

I think this is just a phenomenal set for people who might have liked the Technics, but need something with a more secure fit. I know it's pretty polarizing here, but this thing is so smooth on the right material. What it loses in tactility, it makes up for in brilliance (and I don't mean that in the Beyer sort of way) and that brilliance translates into breathing room for everything. If you decide to subject the FITS to Top 40, Eurovision Song Contest material, Dubstep, DMX, or anything that relies on heavy and sustained basslines, I don't think you're going to be very excited about the outcome. Not saying you'll hate it; just not the FITS' wheelhouse. It'll gobble up classical, jazz, and acoustic stuff all day long, though.

Now, I know I could sit here and EQ this thing until it makes up for my frustrations on more bass-heavy music. Then I have to live with the tradeoff of losing all those magic moments with the stuff it's already _excellent_ at. I'm also still holding out hope that a third set of tips and a slightly different technique with making the molds in the first place will cause me to retract all of this, but that seems more like wishful thinking based on what I'm hearing out of its tuning. It's a much drier-sounding setup, if that makes sense.

And it can do all the genres I said it's "okay" with just fine. I can thoroughly enjoy Mac Miller's "Self Care" and the bassline rolls just as it should. Perhaps it's just the lack of tactility that I was talking about earlier. It hits all the notes, but none of them would make you give that veritable "stinkface" on a bass drop. Listening to Itzhak Perlman's rendition of _Violin Concerto in D Major, Op.61 (Allegro, ma non troppo) _was a particular treat and that more detailed top-end allows for the bow action across Perlman's strings to resonate just a little more than I'm used to hearing. It really does make me happy when I can hear the violin body just as much as I can make out the strings in general and the FITS are willing to serve it. All of your other material is probably going to fall somewhere in between.

Oh! And I think I've finally figured out how to get taps to register consistently. Just applied an approach similar to operating the CF01's buttons (pinch the top and bottom together) and I can make single and double-taps register almost every time. It's a much smoother experience than previous firmwares, but there are still the odd occasions where you keep activating volume control while you're trying to adjust a bud. On more than one occasion, I've either put in a completely silent or a blaringly loud bud. For now, probably best to designate the double-taps to volume control just to avoid that happening to you. Win some, lose some.

The comfort aspect of the FITS is cool, but I don't think it should have been their real selling point. UE made the choice they did and probably weighed in multiple strategies, but I really don't know why they settled on the "made for athletes" market because it's wildly misleading when compared against the rest of that market. These aren't bass-jacked, ultra-V-shaped workout buds. They're a remarkably neutral (if not a little treble-tilted, but tastefully so) set of TWS that happen to have a unique (and very finicky) semi-custom fit process. And I'm all for that.

Oh and they're down to $200 on the UE site now, so a little easier to digest than their original retail. If they drop down to the $150-180 range and you've got the scratch, I highly recommend picking up a pair. Just don't make it your all-rounder.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

Besides, if you want your butt kicked by bass, you can always slap some EPro TW00 on the Melomania Touch...



Here's your tactility...


----------



## miserybeforethemusic (May 11, 2021)

Oh, by the way, Android 11 users should probably take a deeper look at their Development Options. You'll find this quirkily-named feature:




Apparently it's a new Bluetooth stack Google has been working on. Going to mess around with it for a while and see what happens.

Some light reading:
https://android.googlesource.com/pl...s/master/gd/docs/architecture/architecture.md

https://9to5google.com/2020/02/19/android-11-dp1-gabeldorsche-bluetooth/

https://blog.desdelinux.net/en/google-develops-a-new-bluetooth-stack-for-android-written-in-rust/

https://factschronicle.com/android-11-unknown-features-learned-from-the-source-code-24587.html

https://beebom.com/new-blesa-bluetooth-vulnerability-affects-billions-of-devices-researchers/


----------



## assassin10000

Modded my X12 Ultra's a 2nd time. Swapped from a 64Ω N55 driver to a 32Ω Ti (both 14.8mm). Pic with new drivers installed:


----------



## regancipher

One of my longest reviews for a while, the 1More Comfobuds Pro 

Also, I revisited the Jabra 75t to ask 'are they still worth it' here


----------



## mainguy (May 11, 2021)

PI7 came today, i’ve spent all morning with them.

Compared them thoroughly to Airpods pros in the official PI7 thread. In short: PI7 are a big step up in sound, from the Airpod Pros, I was suprised at just how big actually.

Took them with the Airpod Pros to a busy A-road and thoroughly tested ANC. The PI7 with ANC on blocks out more noise than the Airpod Pros, no doubt about it.

No dropout issues yet either. Only issue I’m getting is they’re about 20% louder driven from my iPad as opposed to iPhone.

I also prefer them big time to the MW07+. The SQ is such a step up I have a hunch the PI5 will be very good value for money, I imagine they still sound better than the Airpod Pros/Mw07+ but for less money.

So far, i also prefer the sound quality to my Airpod Max...


----------



## zeinharis

dasadab said:


> Where did you buy them from.  Amazon doesn’t carry any of the latest models?  Thanks.


The Nuarl N10 Plus?, thankfully there is a Nuarl’s dealer in my country so I can get the real retail price on them, same goes with Aviots


----------



## Canabuc

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Oh, by the way, Android 11 users should probably take a deeper look at their Development Options. You'll find this quirkily-named feature:
> 
> Apparently it's a new Bluetooth stack Google has been working on. Going to mess around with it for a while and see what happens.
> 
> ...



Tried Gabeldorsche a while back and saw no difference


----------



## tiagopinto

Here I am, praising the MT through and through and suddenly... the is no sound from the left bud...

I’ve gone through the reset process quite a few times, the lights behave as normal, the touch controls on the left ear bud even work... volume down, play/pause... but no sound: no “power on”, no “Melomania paired”, no beeps.

I’ve sent an email to support. Let’s see, but it’s a bummer.

I even thought there could be something with the recent iOS update to 14.5.1 so if someone experiences the same, let me know.


----------



## zeinharis

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Besides, if you want your butt kicked by bass, you can always slap some EPro TW00 on the Melomania Touch...
> 
> Here's your tactility...


Here’s my bass setup

Nuarl N6 Mini + Final Type E for TWS (black version)






The rumbling bass on this tracks is really good.


----------



## dasadab

mainguy said:


> PI7 came today, i’ve spent all morning with them.
> 
> Compared them thoroughly to Airpods pros in the official PI7 thread. In short: PI7 are a big step up in sound, from the Airpod Pros, I was suprised at just how big actually.
> 
> ...


Interesting.  Maybe I did get a defective pair.  I have the same gear as you do, and the ANC on the PI7s I received was essentially not worth using.  I agree that the sound quality was quite good for a BT IEM—much better than my AirPods.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

Canabuc said:


> Tried Gabeldorsche a while back and saw no difference


Based on everything I read, it's more to fix a bunch of bandaids and exploits brought on by code mismatches as Bluetooth aged and all the other tech advanced. There's also apparently a major exploit in the existing Fluoride BT stack that everybody is using. One of those links I posted goes into it. If there's any truth to the claims, I'd get off Fluoride ASAP. Even if there's no performance benefit (though it's way too soon for me to conclude anything about SQ, stability is fantastic even on stubborn pairs), there is a potential security one.


zeinharis said:


> Here’s my bass setup
> 
> Nuarl N6 Mini + Final Type E for TWS (black version)
> 
> ...


Sounds fantastic! I've been lucky enough to see IM a few times live and they can absolutely knock your socks off on a good system.  _IM the Supervisor_ is one of my all-time faves.


----------



## zeinharis

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Based on everything I read, it's more to fix a bunch of bandaids and exploits brought on by code mismatches as Bluetooth aged and all the other tech advanced. There's also apparently a major exploit in the existing Fluoride BT stack that everybody is using. One of those links I posted goes into it. If there's any truth to the claims, I'd get off Fluoride ASAP. Even if there's no performance benefit (though it's way too soon for me to conclude anything about SQ, stability is fantastic even on stubborn pairs), there is a potential security one.
> 
> Sounds fantastic! I've been lucky enough to see IM a few times live and they can absolutely knock your socks off on a good system.  _IM the Supervisor_ is one of my all-time faves.


I would love to see them in a concert, but who knows when with all this pandemic.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

zeinharis said:


> I would love to see them in a concert, but who knows when with all this pandemic.


Well I've been paying for my Dreamstate tickets all year; keeping my fingers crossed they'll give us permission to have fun again soon. Or we can just take it ourselves, but that's a totally different story haha. Nobody asked permission for underground raves back in the day...

Do you think the Mini is a solid purchase? Wouldn't mind adding a Nuarl into the collection based on feedback here, but also don't want to run the risk of having it feel redundant against something else in the stable.


----------



## mainguy

dasadab said:


> Interesting.  Maybe I did get a defective pair.  I have the same gear as you do, and the ANC on the PI7s I received was essentially not worth using.  I agree that the sound quality was quite good for a BT IEM—much better than my AirPods.


The ANC made a subtle difference, but so did the Pros. I think the passive nc on the PI7 is a lot better, really. I tried them with my air filter too and the hum sounded more distant on the PI7. 

Could also just be ear shape. IEMs have such feeble ANC (relatively) that passive noise cancellation is as much of a factor imo.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

mainguy said:


> The ANC made a subtle difference, but so did the Pros. I think the passive nc on the PI7 is a lot better, really. I tried them with my air filter too and the hum sounded more distant on the PI7.
> 
> Could also just be ear shape. IEMs have such feeble ANC (relatively) that passive noise cancellation is as much of a factor imo.


Getting something as small as a set of IEMs to handle ANC successfully is a pretty big ask. Sony and Bose have probably gotten the closest of the bunch, but you'd be kidding yourself if you think they didn't patent their approach or otherwise make it a licensing play for the brands that tried after they did. Unfortunately, this is the way big tech companies like to operate these days. Only a few innovate; everybody else has to either pay up a license fee or forego the tech altogether.

I'm all for passive NC over active when I can get it; should be more effective at blocking those random or higher-frequency noise patterns that seem to complete throw ANC algorithms off their game. The active stuff helps tremendously with the droning/AC noises you're describing.


----------



## stormwrx

Just got the Noble Falcon Pros. Does anyone have any EQ settings they would like to share?


----------



## bronco1015 (May 11, 2021)

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Oh, by the way, Android 11 users should probably take a deeper look at their Development Options. You'll find this quirkily-named feature:
> 
> Apparently it's a new Bluetooth stack Google has been working on. Going to mess around with it for a while and see what happens.
> 
> ...


I saw that when I updated a couple months ago, and was reminded of it Saturday and said to myself, I've gotta read up on that. Hadn't gotten around to it. Thanks for the links.


----------



## Caipirina

dweaver said:


> How comfortable are the beans? Do they stay put or need constant adjusting?


I am actually a big fan of the beans, they fit perfectly (using the biggest ring thingies) and I really enjoy the rather energetic sound signature and even the ANC, which maybe only works for me since I get a pretty good seal with those wonky ears of mine. 

But there is an oddity with the ANC that's tricky to describe and maybe it is just me? It seems to 'switch levels' every once in a while and it is not based on things like grinning or moving my jaw ... it's like as if I am on the highway in a pretty sound proof car .. and every so often someone cracks a window just a bit .. and then closes that again ... it is not too distracting, but a shame, because in 'closed window' cycle, it is really among the best ANC that I have here. Anyone else experiencing that? 

Already my second pair that has that (first died probably of moisture, running in this humidity creates just way too much sweat)


----------



## Caipirina

regancipher said:


> One of my longest reviews for a while, the 1More Comfobuds Pro
> 
> Also, I revisited the Jabra 75t to ask 'are they still worth it' here


I am still considering getting the 75s for my collection .. if I find a good deal

The Comfobuds ... pass ... that spike stem is really foooogly ...


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

stormwrx said:


> Just got the Noble Falcon Pros. Does anyone have any EQ settings they would like to share?


Didn't need much, honestly. I dropped the 3k a little at first for pinna gain adjustment and walked it up over time until it was neutral again. Really do admire the stock tuning.


----------



## TK33

Caipirina said:


> I am actually a big fan of the beans, they fit perfectly (using the biggest ring thingies) and I really enjoy the rather energetic sound signature and even the ANC, which maybe only works for me since I get a pretty good seal with those wonky ears of mine.
> 
> But there is an oddity with the ANC that's tricky to describe and maybe it is just me? It seems to 'switch levels' every once in a while and it is not based on things like grinning or moving my jaw ... it's like as if I am on the highway in a pretty sound proof car .. and every so often someone cracks a window just a bit .. and then closes that again ... it is not too distracting, but a shame, because in 'closed window' cycle, it is really among the best ANC that I have here. Anyone else experiencing that?
> 
> Already my second pair that has that (first died probably of moisture, running in this humidity creates just way too much sweat)


Mine fit me really well too and I like the design, although I only use it for music when I am walking around so I can hear my surroundings too. If I didnt get the PI7, I would have bought another pair to use exclusively for Zoom calls on my laptop (get tired of switching).  They were on sale for a while but that seems to have ended for the time being.

I get the ANC behavior you describe when I am on my patio sometimes and my PTAC is running.  If the seal breaks or possibly direction the noise is being picked up changes it will get louder like someone opened a window on the highway.  I thought it might have to do with the sounds being picked up by the inside mic.  Usually happens when I am taking care of the plants in my mini garden I have out there.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

Caipirina said:


> I am actually a big fan of the beans, they fit perfectly (using the biggest ring thingies) and I really enjoy the rather energetic sound signature and even the ANC, which maybe only works for me since I get a pretty good seal with those wonky ears of mine.
> 
> But there is an oddity with the ANC that's tricky to describe and maybe it is just me? It seems to 'switch levels' every once in a while and it is not based on things like grinning or moving my jaw ... it's like as if I am on the highway in a pretty sound proof car .. and every so often someone cracks a window just a bit .. and then closes that again ... it is not too distracting, but a shame, because in 'closed window' cycle, it is really among the best ANC that I have here. Anyone else experiencing that?
> 
> Already my second pair that has that (first died probably of moisture, running in this humidity creates just way too much sweat)


I can get the Jabra to do the same thing with HearThrough from time to time. Think it's a hiccup in the audio processing or something.


bronco1015 said:


> I saw that when I updated a couple months ago, and was reminded of it Saturday and said to myself, I've gotta read up on that. Hadn't gotten around to it. Thanks for the links.


I don't blame you for putting it off. Really not much conclusive that I can find on it, including from Google directly. Seems to be a complete rewrite of the Bluetooth stack, optimized for Android 11 and a framework referred to as "Rust." Have a feeling you'll find more on Rust than you will Gabeldorsche.


----------



## bronco1015

Was listening to the MW08 one last time, and a strange thing happened. i was a couple rooms from my phone, these have had no dropouts, but something else happened i've not experienced with another pair. Instead of the music cutting out, the sound switched from stereo to mono in both ears. They were perfectly in sync, there was no echo / out of focus sound, several ways i could describe it, one would be like that 96K bitrate on free Pandora back in the day.
They did this twice, and then switched back to stereo seamlessly, like nothing had happened. I don't want my audio to cut out from being interfered with of course, but in those moments where i'm a good distance from my phone and listening to a podcast or book, I'd rather have what i described happen instead of the garbled choppy audio that's so common.


----------



## drewbinaj

Don't sleep on airpod pro's. Honestly pretty fantastic for the price.


----------



## clerkpalmer

stormwrx said:


> Just got the Noble Falcon Pros. Does anyone have any EQ settings they would like to share?


There is an example posted up thread a bit. I asked the same question. Will see if I can find it.


----------



## Caipirina

It seems there ARE some ppl here who actually like the Galaxy beans, happy to hear. Any of those also tried the Galaxy Buds PRO? 

I'd like to hear your impressions ... 

mainly regarding the ANC. 

I watched several YT videos, but when they start with 'the ANC on the Buds Live was crap' then I already know that we have different ears


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

drewbinaj said:


> Don't sleep on airpod pro's. Honestly pretty fantastic for the price.


For sure. Even I'll vouch for the APPs and I have no practical use for them. Just wish the wife would use them more as I bought them for her in the first place. It's a bit funny watching her try to do stuff around the house with only one available hand, though.


----------



## clerkpalmer

Caipirina said:


> It seems there ARE some ppl here who actually like the Galaxy beans, happy to hear. Any of those also tried the Galaxy Buds PRO?
> 
> I'd like to hear your impressions ...
> 
> ...


I use them for calls.  They work very well for the purpose.  Basically Samsung’s answer to regular air pods. Music would only be in a pinch. ANC isn’t really effective. It’s a strange effect but relatively useless.  Edit sorry - didn’t realize this was for the pros. Mea culpa.


----------



## TK33

clerkpalmer said:


> I use them for calls.  They work very well for the purpose.  Basically Samsung’s answer to regular air pods. Music would only be in a pinch. ANC isn’t really effective. It’s a strange effect but relatively useless.  Edit sorry - didn’t realize this was for the pros. Mea culpa.


I also use them mostly for calls and for walking around town so I can hear what is going on around me and to be able to take handsfree calls.  Great to be able to talk to the starbucks barista without having to adjust or take out my earbuds.  

As I have noted before, I dont really care for ANC but it appears to do an effective job at fan/hvac/low frequency "droning" noises but does not negate much else.  I like that it works that way because, as the name suggests, it is intended to allow you to interact with your surroundings. You cant compare these for ANC to Sony or Bose but that is fine for me.  Dont have any Apple devices so cant compare to airpods.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

While it may not be the best choice for music, I'm really digging the E-Pro TW00 on my Jabra EA75t for calls. Does a phenomenal job cutting down some of the boominess that comes through from some callers and doesn't otherwise mess with fitment. Still on the fence about what they do for music, though, so that's what I'll try to spend my time today doing.


So far, here's what I can infer:

Those wanting a boosted midrange (or at least a more prominent midrange presence) would benefit more from the Final TWS tips. The TW00 seem to make cuts in the upper bass/lower midrange which turns some of that boom into more of a snap. Depending on the genre, this will be either a pro or a con.
They're even more comfortable on the EA75t than the Final TWS tips were, which I didn't think was possible. I could probably stand to go down a size on them and still keep a great seal.
Passive seal is much better than the Final TWS were. With the buds in and no music playing, I can barely make out the clacking of my keyboard when I type. Once I activate ANC, I have to _really_ struggle to hear it. This allows me to keep the volume low when I listen to music and avoid early fatigue.
I am constantly forgetting that I have auto-pause enabled. Keep forgetting the EA75t even have that feature. Or muli-link pairing, for that matter.
In full disclosure, the tips that Jabra includes with the EA75t are very similar in shape/style to the EPro horns; the two biggest differences being a _much_ wider bore on the TW00 and grippier texture. I think both will ultimately help keep this set fully planted in my "impulse buy" recommendations for under $100.


----------



## phixion (May 11, 2021)

What's the general consensus between the Galaxy Buds and Buds+? The Buds+ are cheaper here for some reason.

Are there any chances Samsung will add aptX in future versions or are they likely to stick with their proprietary technology?


----------



## bronco1015

phixion said:


> What's the general consensus between the Galaxy Buds and Buds+? The Buds+ are cheaper here for some reason.
> 
> Are there any chances Samsung will add aptX in future versions or are they likely to stick with their proprietary technology?


i can't speak to differences between the 2, but no APTX is a primary reason I don't buy them. Sure they have AAC, which imo has improoved on LG phones, RIP LG mobile, but I also don't play in the Samsung Sandbox. plus they hamstring the Galaxy Buds line by limiting playback on SBC. On principal that bothers me.
If i had to bet, I don't think APTX will make it's way to galaxy TWEs any time soon.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic (May 11, 2021)

Looks like Moondrop has gone live with the Sparks. Might be a good option for fans of their VDSF tuning.
https://apos.audio/collections/moondrop/products/moondrop-sparks-iems
https://hifigo.com/products/moondrop-sparks-tws?_pos=3&_sid=96dc3113c&_ss=r





Looks a lot better in this colorway than the pink/purple, in my opinion, but I know I'm not the entirety of the market. Feature set looks pretty decent as well. Curious to see how they're going to do in the arena.

Hoping @MOONDROP will hop in and share a little about their new TWS. Especially this, which sounds quite interesting:


----------



## zeinharis

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Well I've been paying for my Dreamstate tickets all year; keeping my fingers crossed they'll give us permission to have fun again soon. Or we can just take it ourselves, but that's a totally different story haha. Nobody asked permission for underground raves back in the day...
> 
> Do you think the Mini is a solid purchase? Wouldn't mind adding a Nuarl into the collection based on feedback here, but also don't want to run the risk of having it feel redundant against something else in the stable.


Definitely miss the old days, last time in a concert was back in 2015 watching Lamb of God, and it was awesome.

Personally for me, Nuarl N6 Mini is a solid purchase for the price vs performance (around $100 in my country). Love the sound quality of it, especially on the bass and mids (no boomy bass or shouty mids), trebles could use a little boost though, but you can always tips rolling or use the EQ, details is good and the timber is excellent. Currently I’m using Tanchjim T300T (no EQ) which brought up the trebles without adding any bass (sub or midbass), surely now the sounds is more balance, closer to my preferences. Soundstage is good, not too cluster phobic even though it doesn’t have HDSS likes it’s big brother, but it have an excellent separation for a TWS. Feature wise, it have AAC/SBC/Aptx, an ip7x rating and a hear through mode, but don’t expect it to be awesome though. Battery wise, I’m getting around 6 hours 50 minutes on AAC (iPhone 11) at 80% volume, and around 5 hours 43 minutes on Aptx (Redmi note 8 pro) at 80% volume.


----------



## mainguy

Do you guys know if any devices, either DAPs, or phones, give A louder output via tws?

I’m thoroughly enjoying the PI7, but I think another notch of volume and they’d be better than any tws has a right to be.


----------



## samandhi

mainguy said:


> Do you guys know if any devices, either DAPs, or phones, give A louder output via tws?
> 
> I’m thoroughly enjoying the PI7, but I think another notch of volume and they’d be better than any tws has a right to be.


The lack of volume is not due to the device you are sending the BT signal from. This is from the built-in DAC/AMP of the TWS itself. So changing devices will not make any difference.


----------



## mainguy (May 11, 2021)

samandhi said:


> samandhi said:
> 
> 
> > The lack of volume is not due to the device you are sending the BT signal from. This is from the built-in DAC/AMP of the TWS itself. So changing devices will not make any difference.



Tis a shame,

I really noticed on a run earlier how they lacked the power of the Airpods Pro/MW07+. Just felt a bit too small owing to the low volume from the iPhone, despite the clear advantage they have in every other area. Difficult, as at £350 the product kind of needs to be flawless.


----------



## zeinharis (May 11, 2021)

mainguy said:


> Do you guys know if any devices, either DAPs, or phones, give A louder output via tws?
> 
> I’m thoroughly enjoying the PI7, but I think another notch of volume and they’d be better than any tws has a right to be.


If you on iOS you could use Flacbox’s Preamplifier, add a few db on it could increase the volume (adding it with the master volume on your phone), but do in mind that using the preamplifier too much could distort your PI7.


----------



## samandhi

Or, you could just chuck it all and Jailbreak the phone and get rid of the locked top end that Apple puts on volume for hearing protection (like we are all kids and can't do the right thing for ourselves)... hehe


----------



## mainguy

samandhi said:


> Or, you could just chuck it all and Jailbreak the phone and get rid of the locked top end that Apple puts on volume for hearing protection (like we are all kids and can't do the right thing for ourselves)... hehe


Tempted, is there a phone that doesn’t have this volume limit?




zeinharis said:


> If you on iOS you could use Flacbox’s Preamplifier, add a few db on it could increase the volume (adding it with the master volume on your phone), but do in mind that using the preamplifier too much could distort your PI7.


Thanks a bunch man, just tried it, and it worked amazingly for vocals, then bass kicked in And it was distorted as heck.

It’s a shame, as they’ve made something exceptional. But volume is especially important for tws as you’re often using them out and about, and these are noticeably quieter than the APP. Tis a shame as they sound about twice as good.


----------



## zeinharis (May 11, 2021)

mainguy said:


> Tempted, is there a phone that doesn’t have this volume limit?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I wouldn’t go passed 1.5 on the Preamplifier, beyond that it would go distort. Try to play with it a little bit, who knows you might find a sweet spot on the volume.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

Just got a shipping notice from WorldWideStereo. Looks like the AZ70Ws are coming home to roost 

Otherwise been battling a wicked head cold today, so took a listening break. This stuff ain't fun, folks.


----------



## jant71

Not that they are proven to have better batteries in them just yet but I said, WTH, and got the new CCA CC1. Only $20.99. Something cheap to play with till the Sony or something real exciting comes along though it will take several weeks to come lol. Yes, I actually like the look of the "HYBRID TECHNOLOGY" on it. Has a "customized version of 30095 balanced armature and 8MM Dynamic unit". They are BT5.2 with supposed 20M range. Figured I gotta try one of these KZ/CCA sometime


----------



## SemiAudiophile

jant71 said:


> Not that they are proven to have better batteries in them just yet but I said, WTH, and got the new CCA CC1. Only $20.99. Something cheap to play with till the Sony or something real exciting comes along though it will take several weeks to come lol. Yes, I actually like the look of the "HYBRID TECHNOLOGY" on it. Has a "customized version of 30095 balanced armature and 8MM Dynamic unit". They are BT5.2 with supposed 20M range. Figured I gotta try one of these KZ/CCA sometime


That looks like an absolute steal. Where do you see it on sale for $20.99? I see $29.90 everywhere, still an absolute bargain anyhow.


----------



## jant71 (May 11, 2021)

SemiAudiophile said:


> That looks like an absolute steal. Where do you see it on sale for $20.99? I see $29.90 everywhere, still an absolute bargain anyhow.


Was $24.99 on Amazon with a $4 off coupon.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B092TZGSCJ/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
Not sure if the coupon is gone now for me cause I used it or it is just gone.


----------



## SemiAudiophile

jant71 said:


> Was $24.99 on Amazon with a $4 off coupon.
> https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B092TZGSCJ/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
> Not sure if the coupon is gone now for me cause I used it or it is just gone.


Nice! I got the coupon, just ordered one too.  Can't really go wrong at $20.


----------



## cappuchino (May 12, 2021)

For those that want to convert their IEMs that use QDC connection into TWS.

I rate the KZ AZ09 at 4.5/5. It currently sells on Shopee for 16 USD, on Amazon for 23 USD, and on Aliexpress for 20 USD.

https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/kz-az09.25142/review/25844/


----------



## senorbroom

I'm thinking I might just give up on these Galaxy Buds Pro and try and sell them due to the fit. Love the sound, love the size of the case, love the wireless charging, and even find the ANC acceptable for a TWS.  I've updated the firmware so can now control volume, ANC, and track skipping all from the buds. However, when wearing them I am accurately that I am wearing them and they constantly feel on the verge of falling out. It's frustrating because they're so close to being great.


----------



## Caipirina

senorbroom said:


> I'm thinking I might just give up on these Galaxy Buds Pro and try and sell them due to the fit. Love the sound, love the size of the case, love the wireless charging, and even find the ANC acceptable for a TWS.  I've updated the firmware so can now control volume, ANC, and track skipping all from the buds. However, when wearing them I am accurately that I am wearing them and they constantly feel on the verge of falling out. It's frustrating because they're so close to being great.


would you say they go in deep or stay pretty shallow? 
Tried different tips? 

I am still curious about them, wish I had a 'try' option


----------



## samandhi

mainguy said:


> Tempted, is there a phone that doesn’t have this volume limit?


Pretty much any android phone (that is not Samsung, who mostly copies Apple in all things). But either way, you won't get much more volume than that anyhow. Best bet might be to get a different pair if you aren't happy with the max volume (I'm sorry to say).


----------



## MaccaUK

samandhi said:


> Pretty much any android phone (that is not Samsung, who mostly copies Apple in all things). But either way, you won't get much more volume than that anyhow. Best bet might be to get a different pair if you aren't happy with the max volume (I'm sorry to say).


I don’t agree. I’ve got 2 Android DAP’s running 8.1 and 9.0, and both have more than enough power for the Pi7’s. The highest I’ve listened to is around 70 out of 100 and whilst the buds seemed happy to go higher, my ears did not. @mainguy - you might want to check some of the smaller Hiby units. Amazing value for what you get.


----------



## Keanureeves

Oluvs target audience are people who care if something sounds correct. Certain tonalitys are just objectively more realistic and correct then others regardless if someone likes it or not. Ofcourse people perceive and experience sound differently but there must be some baseline to say what is correct or not. Just like how we all experience the same world around us but have different opinions about it. If some people like an unnatural soundsignature thats fine but we should still be able to agree that it sounds off when compared against the real instrument for example.
Some people just dont care that much about correctness. I think in the end everything only matters with respect to a goal. You either want to hear things how they should be or you just want what you like.


----------



## mainguy

MaccaUK said:


> I don’t agree. I’ve got 2 Android DAP’s running 8.1 and 9.0, and both have more than enough power for the Pi7’s. The highest I’ve listened to is around 70 out of 100 and whilst the buds seemed happy to go higher, my ears did not. @mainguy - you might want to check some of the smaller Hiby units. Amazing value for what you get.


B&W agree with you, they got back to me and said it’s source dependent, could be because I’m just using iOS. I’ll try something else, thanks for the reccomendation


----------



## clerkpalmer

mainguy said:


> B&W agree with you, they got back to me and said it’s source dependent, could be because I’m just using iOS. I’ll try something else, thanks for the reccomendation


The buds are powered solely by their internal amps.  The only possible answer is source software is limiting volume. I have an android and an iPhone. I’ll test.


----------



## mammal

Wireless for me always has been about convenience, mainly for sport reasons. Due to being locked into Apple ecosystem, AirPods 2 worked for me quite well, AirPods Pro are better for isolation, they sound a bit nicer too (full bodied) but comfort is not as good as with AirPods 2.


----------



## mainguy

[deleted]


----------



## tiagopinto

tiagopinto said:


> Here I am, praising the MT through and through and suddenly... the is no sound from the left bud...
> 
> I’ve gone through the reset process quite a few times, the lights behave as normal, the touch controls on the left ear bud even work... volume down, play/pause... but no sound: no “power on”, no “Melomania paired”, no beeps.
> 
> ...



Waiting for RMA...


----------



## SilverEars (May 12, 2021)

SemiAudiophile said:


> Nice! I got the coupon, just ordered one too.  Can't really go wrong at $20.


ANC TWS for $20?!  damn cheap.  I don't expect ANC to be great however.

But, I got to chuckle at their advertisements.  Chinese ads are so damn ghetto.  It says BT 5.2 is lossless. LMAO.


----------



## jant71

SilverEars said:


> ANC TWS for $20?!  damn cheap.  I don't expect ANC to be great however.
> 
> But, I got to chuckle at their advertisements.  Chinese ads are so damn ghetto.  It says BT 5.2 is lossless. LMAO.


I don't expect any cause they don't have ANC.  They are only able, potentially, to do two things. Sound good and fit nicely. Not much else there. No ambient, no ANC, not even volume control. Of course the 20M range claim would hope that they have good stability and decent range. I hope they are nice and comfy, combine with my Cowon EQ to sound very good for the $20, and just work well as far as no drop outs under normal circumstances.


----------



## samandhi (May 12, 2021)

mainguy said:


> B&W agree with you, they got back to me and said it’s source dependent, could be because I’m just using iOS. I’ll try something else, thanks for the reccomendation





clerkpalmer said:


> The buds are powered solely by their internal amps.  The only possible answer is source software is limiting volume. I have an android and an iPhone. I’ll test.


Same thing I was trying to say. I apologize if I said it in the wrong way. I believe that if that was the answer B&W gave you, they were either giving you the short answer or the rep is not in the know. For anything BT as far as volume limit is concerned, that is decided by the amp inside the device itself, not the DAP/phone; except where the manufacturer has capped the volume limit in the software of the OS. Apple has always done this for "hearing safety" and the only way around it is to jailbreak the OS.

Android, on the other hand is usually not like this. Being an open OS it is normally left up to you to monitor the level at which you listen to your stuff (you will have the full range of volume). The exception to this has been Samsung products. They tend to do things like Apple does, and because of this they have initiated level caps on their products also. There is a way to temporarily get around this on Samsung devices. When you turn the volume up past a certain point, a pop-up will ask you if you are sure you want to do this. Once answered it will stay this way for a set period of time. It will reset after a reboot, or after a period of time, in which you will have to answer this pop-up again.

Volume on BT devices are not limited by the DAP/phone because while a BT device is hooked up to it (wirelessly) it is only acting as a transport to the heaphone/earphone. Meaning that as long as there is not some (in between) code limiting volume via software, you should get the full range 0-100% with any device you hook up to. The BT device now becomes both the DAC and the AMP for the sound you are hearing. You should get the same volume from a TV as you would a tiny DAP or phone. As a matter of fact, unless there is some DSP going on in the OS (or player), all players should sound the same through your BT IEMs

Long story longer is that unless Apple has gimped the cap by a ton, you will not get a ton of boosted volume on any device. Here is where I am not 100% sure because I have not listened to an iPhone since the 8, and before that the iPod Touch, which were equally gimped on the cap.



> Waiting for RMA...



You just cannot win for losing with those?! Sorry to hear that. I hope they make it right for you, and wish you had some like mine (have had no issues to speak of really), so you could be enjoying them rather that being annoyed with them. Did you get them directly from Cambridge? I have seen (here and elsewhere) that at least they try and make it right. 

It's crazy with those, because they could have had a massive winner with these if they didn't have so many issues. I wonder if the quality control manager still has a job when this is all over with, because it seems they did not run them through the paces at all on these, even though they are physically well built (it seems).


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

tiagopinto said:


> Waiting for RMA...


Do you mean waiting as in nobody has responded to you? Or that it's been sent out and you're awaiting its return?


----------



## tiagopinto

samandhi said:


> You just cannot win for losing with those?! Sorry to hear that. I hope they make it right for you, and wish you had some like mine (have had no issues to speak of really), so you could be enjoying them rather that being annoyed with them. Did you get them directly from Cambridge? I have seen (here and elsewhere) that at least they try and make it right.
> 
> It's crazy with those, because they could have had a massive winner with these if they didn't have so many issues. I wonder if the quality control manager still has a job when this is all over with, because it seems they did not run them through the paces at all on these, even though they are physically well built (it seems).



I did buy them directly from the CA website... and, besides from some of the (known) issues which were solved by firmware updates, I hadn’t had any issues with them. Suddenly the left bud stopped reproducing any sound. The led light seems ok, touch controls work... but there’s no sound. Which, honestly, is/was their best trait. 

I’m now just waiting for them to approve the RMA and send me the return label. I’ll keep you posted.


----------



## tiagopinto

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Do you mean waiting as in nobody has responded to you? Or that it's been sent out and you're awaiting its return?



They responded the same day... to both my emails. As I write this, I’ve received the authorization and return instructions, which is good news, all in a little over 24h. Now let’s see how long this will take...


----------



## pkcpga

mainguy said:


> B&W agree with you, they got back to me and said it’s source dependent, could be because I’m just using iOS. I’ll try something else, thanks for the reccomendation


I had no volume level issue on my iPhone 12 Pro max, used it at 70% volume, granted my Noble Falcon Pro I use at 40% volume to achieve the same volume level.


----------



## SemiAudiophile (May 12, 2021)

SilverEars said:


> ANC TWS for $20?!  damn cheap.  I don't expect ANC to be great however.
> 
> But, I got to chuckle at their advertisements.  Chinese ads are so damn ghetto.  It says BT 5.2 is lossless. LMAO.


Yeah, I'm not a fan of the "hybrid technology" monkier either. Rather it just say CCA. Didn't realize how cheap these hybrid TWS are getting nowadays. As long as they are decent sounding I'm fine with it. I plan to use them as backup earbuds for working out or mobile gaming/movies anyway.


jant71 said:


> I don't expect any cause they don't have ANC.  They are only able, potentially, to do two things. Sound good and fit nicely. Not much else there. No ambient, no ANC, not even volume control. Of course the 20M range claim would hope that they have good stability and decent range. I hope they are nice and comfy, combine with my Cowon EQ to sound very good for the $20, and just work well as far as no drop outs under normal circumstances.


Yeah no volume control is quite a shock on these. They actually shipped pretty fast though, looks like it already got picked up by shipping partner from Fremont, CA.


----------



## bladefd

tiagopinto said:


> They responded the same day... to both my emails. As I write this, I’ve received the authorization and return instructions, which is good news, all in a little over 24h. Now let’s see how long this will take...


I am curious too. I am going to have to rma my MT. No matter what I try, the right bud is hit-or-miss with charging. The contact is definitely loose with the pins, and there is nothing I can do on my end.


----------



## dj24

hmscott said:


> Tranya have come out with a new version, the T10B - and they finally released 2 months after I pre-ordered them, and the T10B sounds even better than the T10.  The T10B does have more bass, but the whole frequency range holds together much better than the original.  A new favorite.
> 
> The only way I can tell the original T10 and new T10B apart is by the screen hole size on the end of the nozzle.  The T10 has larger round holes and the T10B has many more small holes.
> 
> ...


How's the call quality on these?  Thinking of upgrading from the M10..


miserybeforethemusic said:


> While it may not be the best choice for music, I'm really digging the E-Pro TW00 on my Jabra EA75t for calls. Does a phenomenal job cutting down some of the boominess that comes through from some callers and doesn't otherwise mess with fitment. Still on the fence about what they do for music, though, so that's what I'll try to spend my time today doing.
> 
> So far, here's what I can infer:
> 
> ...


I cam always use more tips for my EA75 Active's.  Are these the same E-Pro TW00 or did you buy them from somewhere else?


----------



## MaccaUK

clerkpalmer said:


> The buds are powered solely by their internal amps.  The only possible answer is source software is limiting volume. I have an android and an iPhone. I’ll test.


I‘m not sure I get this? My Sony NW-ZX507 had an EU volume cap that made it useless for IEM’s, and worse for over-ears, but the bluetooth volume was surprisingly loud, suggesting your hypothesis is at least in part correct. However, how can Apple interfere with the Bluetooth volume if it’s controlled by the earphone amps? If the iPhone has no control or knowledge of the Bluetooth volume, how can it limit it?


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

bladefd said:


> I am curious too. I am going to have to rma my MT. No matter what I try, the right bud is hit-or-miss with charging. The contact is definitely loose with the pins, and there is nothing I can do on my end.


It's possible the pin might be bent, then. They protrude more than I'd realistically be comfortable with for a set of pins that doesn't have a spring action. If anything, that's the MT's Achilles' heel and something that should be addressed in the future.

Have you taken my suggestion and cleaned the contacts? I found that helped me out a ton.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

dj24 said:


> I cam always use more tips for my EA75 Active's.  Are these the same E-Pro TW00 or did you buy them from somewhere else?


That's the set! I've found they seem to run a little larger in my ears than their size indicates, though @CocaCola15 seems to have had the opposite experience with his LL (their version of XL) not sealing in his ears.

If you can swing it, try to grab the size you need and another set one size down. I'm tempted to grab a Small for the EA75t, though they're plenty comfortable as is; I just want to know if they'll work.

Oh and if you decide to WishList these, there's some odd bug that makes it a size XL. I'd suggest adding directly from the product page to avoid this.


----------



## stormwrx

If any fellow TWS enthusiasts want to provide a loving home to my gently used MW08s for a fair price, please message me directly. I like them, but they are not getting much use since I got the Noble Falcon Pros. Thanks.


----------



## AmericanSpirit

Order placed for Moondrop Sparks(for second time because former preorders got cancelled.) Now available at Amazon, Apos, Shenzhen audio. If you want leather case that matches with the TWS scheme(black/ivy blue (purple tws), red(pink TWS). You may need check out from Shenzhen audio.


----------



## samandhi

MaccaUK said:


> I‘m not sure I get this? My Sony NW-ZX507 had an EU volume cap that made it useless for IEM’s, and worse for over-ears, but the bluetooth volume was surprisingly loud, suggesting your hypothesis is at least in part correct. However, how can Apple interfere with the Bluetooth volume if it’s controlled by the earphone amps? If the iPhone has no control or knowledge of the Bluetooth volume, how can it limit it?


I know you are not asking me, but I will try and answer anyhow. The reason Apple CAN interfere with the volume is because even though the phone is acting as just a transport, it still has to go through the apple software driver/bt stack in order to be passed wirelessly to the IEM. This is the stage at which the OS intercepts/controls the volume max level that is recieved by the IEM. If you would like to try for yourself, you could follow THIS  which includes BT in the tutorial.


----------



## CocaCola15 (May 12, 2021)

So anyone checking out the Echo Buds 2.0 at $99 (raises hand). With Amazon’s easy return policy, figured why not? Did not own 1.0. Expectations are low, but curiosity got the best of me. Due in tomorrow.


----------



## LordToneeus

SemiAudiophile said:


> Yeah, I'm not a fan of the "hybrid technology" monkier either. Rather it just say CCA. Didn't realize how cheap these hybrid TWS are getting nowadays. As long as they are decent sounding I'm fine with it. I plan to use them as backup earbuds for working out or mobile gaming/movies anyway.
> 
> Yeah no volume control is quite a shock on these. They actually shipped pretty fast though, looks like it already got picked up by shipping partner from Fremont, CA.


I'm sorta tempted by them, but I owned the CCA CX4... three times and had to return them three times due to connection issues that rendered them unusable.  But I really loved the sound and fit of them!


----------



## MaccaUK

samandhi said:


> I know you are not asking me, but I will try and answer anyhow. The reason Apple CAN interfere with the volume is because even though the phone is acting as just a transport, it still has to go through the apple software driver/bt stack in order to be passed wirelessly to the IEM. This is the stage at which the OS intercepts/controls the volume max level that is recieved by the IEM. If you would like to try for yourself, you could follow THIS  which includes BT in the tutorial.


Thanks fo the information, but honestly that just shows me you can control volume through certain applications, and does not explain fundamental low volume over Bluetooth without app intervention. I’m certainly not looking to argue about this, but it seems an important topic to explore further, and your explanation doesn’t resolve this. Especially if people are using other music apps such as Qobuz.

AAC, or for that matter, AptX, SBC et al, are a transmission mechanism that code then decode a file to be moved from source to receiver in as small a volume as its parameters allow. Nowhere in the Bluetooth standard is there reference to volume control. Apple still have to comply with those standards at least.

I refer to what I said earlier with regard my Sony player. Hideously crippled on wired connection because of the EU cap, but they could do nothing about Bluetooth output and I nearly blew my eardrums out when I accidentally left the volume the same as when I’d used IEM’s.

That said, I’m primarily using Android so not an issue for me - just trying to help those who are affected.


----------



## samandhi

MaccaUK said:


> AAC, or for that matter, AptX, SBC et al, are a transmission mechanism that code then decode a file to be moved from source to receiver in as small a volume as its parameters allow. Nowhere in the Bluetooth standard is there reference to volume control. Apple still have to comply with those standards at least.


I am certainly no Apple engineer, nor phone OS coder, so I can't go TOO deeply into this hole. You may need to consult with Apple as to WHY this is what it is. The thing is that AAC, AptX, etc... are not the Bluetooth driver/stack. These are just the codecs, which is what the OS tells the BT stack (Flouride on android) to encode in order to be transmitted and then decoded on the IEM side of things. You are right this has nothing to do with the volume information (except if the song file itself contains gain levels/volume leveling numbers). 

And as for the Bluetooth standard, this is also not specific to any one OS, but coding can be inserted before or after the stack (or if they really want to right in the stack). Windows uses many many different Bluetooth stacks (some much better than others). Android only tends to use one at a time. And, to be quite frank, Apple doesn't always adhere 100% to standards because it is such a closed system. They might have to comply to standards that are not their own pieces of software/hardware, but if it is written specifically for IOS and only IOS they they need not comply with anything that is not patented. In the case of Bluetooth they only need to comply with the transport protocols that allow connections, signal transmissions, etc.. There is nothing saying that they cannot add volume leveling in the code if they so choose.


MaccaUK said:


> and does not explain fundamental low volume over Bluetooth without app intervention.


This, actually is exactly what I am telling you. There is indeed intervention from an app going on here. Think of the system volume on IOS as an app, just like Neutron, or etc... Except it overrides all other apps asking for volume information. It IS and does control the volume level of transmitted signals over all outputs possible rather than leave it alone as a "transport" only situation. This is also why your Sony limited headphone jack but not the BT volume, because they chose to leave it that way. 

What I am arguing here is not whether this phone limits volume or that one doesn't, I was simply trying to say that MOST android phones (and especially plain android DAPS) do not limit volume in any way concerning Bluetooth.


MaccaUK said:


> but honestly that just shows me you can control volume through certain applications


Which is exactly what I was trying to explain after you said:


MaccaUK said:


> If the iPhone has no control or knowledge of the Bluetooth volume, how can it limit it?



The bottom line is: IOS Bluetooth max volume is lower than on most android devices but not because of the power differences on the device. It is purely on a software level.


----------



## jant71

LordToneeus said:


> I'm sorta tempted by them, but I owned the CCA CX4... three times and had to return them three times due to connection issues that rendered them unusable.  But I really loved the sound and fit of them!


I'm sure we are hoping for the two positives you liked about them and the newer 5.2 chip to address the connection issues this time around.

I will compare to this DQ6 / Z3 wireless combo...


----------



## SemiAudiophile

LordToneeus said:


> I'm sorta tempted by them, but I owned the CCA CX4... three times and had to return them three times due to connection issues that rendered them unusable.  But I really loved the sound and fit of them!


Yeah, even the CX10 looks pretty tempting with 4BA and 1DD at $50. But you never know what kind of quality or QC issues you'll be getting, so I'm not sure I wanna take that gamble. Especially if I need to return them overseas.


----------



## jant71 (May 12, 2021)

You know you want one...



With six Godzilla voice patterns for various functions.  Not too shabby either since it is QCC3020 and does SBC/AAC and aptX.



Did we see these yet...











 More here: https://www.gsmarena.com/leaked_sony_wf1000xm4_renders_show_two_different_colorways-news-49074.php


----------



## dweaver

Sure hope the Sony's offer a silicone tip option. But they look good in white as well as black!


----------



## senorbroom

Caipirina said:


> would you say they go in deep or stay pretty shallow?
> Tried different tips?
> 
> I am still curious about them, wish I had a 'try' option


They stay quite shallow. The issue is that the battery housing which, in other TWS, typically lays flat in your ear is bulbous so that it protrudes out. It feels like the oval eartip is the only thing holding them in. I don’t have any such issues with the Jabra 65T.


----------



## hmscott (May 13, 2021)

dj24 said:


> How's the call quality on these?  Thinking of upgrading from the M10...


I've had numerous long calls recently on them, and no complaints from the called party, no communication confusions, or need to repeat myself.  I haven't heard them from the other end yet though.  I also used the T10's for a long time for phone calls too, and I have heard them from the other end and the voice was clear - not odd sounding. 

I haven't been out in crowds or loud crowded spaces for either the T10 or T10B, no idea how they will perform when I am once again.

Going from the T10's to the M10's didn't go well for me, I ended up returning the M10's...it's been a while I do recall there wasn't anything special about the M10's over the T10's, and I already had 2 pair of T10's.

The T10B's have more Bass by default, and 5 taps to the earpiece and it toggles between Bass and Gaming mode, I enjoy both modes, but mostly leave it on Default/Standard/Normal/Bass mode.  I haven't gone back to the T10's - I moved over my AZLA SednaEarfitLight 2 Pairs (Size ML) tips to the new T10B's, more on order.

Amazon still has the Tranya T10's for sale, $39.99 + 30% off at checkout - check the 30% discount box before adding to Cart/Buy.

I pre-ordered the T10B direct from Tranya, and that took a long time (2 months) for my pre-order to get delivered, heads up for future pre-orders 

IDK why, but Tranya is soft on the "B" calling it the "NEW T10" and "T10B".  Tranya use the "T10B" many places except the Title of the product page and the cart entry.

The T10B box said T10 but the T10/T10B boxes have different text on the cover and back of the box descriptions, and there is a "T10B" product sticker with a barcode stuck to the back of the boxes - I pre-ordered 2 T10B's.

I've heard that the T10B was sent to Brazil exclusively?! and that is why we still don't see it for sale here in the US.

All(?) of the T10B reviews I've seen have come out on Youtube in Portuguese 

Tranya NEW T10

The "T10B30" 30% Tranya.com discount code no longer works, but "SHARE20" 20% discount does work


----------



## Caipirina

senorbroom said:


> They stay quite shallow. The issue is that the battery housing which, in other TWS, typically lays flat in your ear is bulbous so that it protrudes out. It feels like the oval eartip is the only thing holding them in. I don’t have any such issues with the Jabra 65T.


The eartips are oval? I was trying to look at detail pics and they look round .. or my eyes are wonky  

But sounds like these won't be for me, as I have trouble with shallow fits .. and I saw several complaints on YT and reddit about a non-secure fit

thanks for your feedback. much appreciated


----------



## Caipirina

jant71 said:


> You know you want one...
> 
> 
> Did we see these yet...
> ...


These better sound insanely great and have next level ANC ... and proper fit ... on looks alone I am not 'sold' yet ..


----------



## senorbroom

Caipirina said:


> The eartips are oval? I was trying to look at detail pics and they look round .. or my eyes are wonky
> 
> But sounds like these won't be for me, as I have trouble with shallow fits .. and I saw several complaints on YT and reddit about a non-secure fit
> 
> thanks for your feedback. much appreciated


Yep, definitely oval-shaped. People with large ear holes also complain that the tips are way too small. I’m selling the buds pro tonight and might wait for reviews for the new Sonys. I don’t expect much from ANC in this form factor and am happy when it can cut out general hum.


----------



## Caipirina

CocaCola15 said:


> So anyone checking out the Echo Buds 2.0 at $99 (raises hand). With Amazon’s easy return policy, figured why not? Did not own 1.0. Expectations are low, but curiosity got the best of me. Due in tomorrow.


My first gen EchoBuds are finally scheduled to travel to my location this weekend (from that 59GBP deal a few months ago)... but let's see ... many things that still could go awray .. they might just totally close the airport


----------



## Caipirina

senorbroom said:


> Yep, definitely oval-shaped. People with large ear holes also complain that the tips are way too small. I’m selling the buds pro tonight and might wait for reviews for the new Sonys. I don’t expect much from ANC in this form factor and am happy when it can cut out general hum.


Thanks for that! 

Seems I am 'stuck' with having the leaders in ANC already (Bose QC and Jabra 85, maybe also APP), so, everything else will disappoint .. 
Hoping for the Sony or who knows if anyone comes in from the left field and surprises us


----------



## assassin10000

Caipirina said:


> These better sound insanely great and have next level ANC ... and proper fit ... on looks alone I am not 'sold' yet ..


Look waaayyy better (to me) than the XM3 fit wise. If it has at least as good ANC and better sound...


----------



## Thesonofkrypton

Sonys should be announced officially soon.  Wondering if the release will be this month also.


----------



## Aevum

If the overears are an indication, should we expect AAC and SBC only with a Mediatek chipset ?
Or maybe we will see LDAC this time ?


----------



## scansp7

Hi everyone,  I have some old Phonaks with the interchangeable filters which I bought probably 8 years ago.  What would be 3 high end wireless IEMs that you could recommend I need a pair.  Any help suggestions would be greatly appreciated


----------



## Aevum

depends on what you want, the AKG N400 is one of the best sounding, but they are absolute trash when it comes to controls, pairing and charging, 
the new B&W are being spoken well of, sony are good but i would wait for the new models, the samsung buds pro and the huawei freebuds pro are both ok to good sounding but are jacks of all trade with good pairing, ANC and easy to use.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic (May 13, 2021)

Caipirina said:


> Thanks for that!
> 
> Seems I am 'stuck' with having the leaders in ANC already (Bose QC and Jabra 85, maybe also APP), so, everything else will disappoint ..
> Hoping for the Sony or who knows if anyone comes in from the left field and surprises us


Those 85t are critically underrated for their ANC performance. It's really something special. Only trick is fitment with the oval tips; just a hair off axis and the whole thing collapses in my ears. Otherwise, it's absolutely phenomenal.


scansp7 said:


> Hi everyone,  I have some old Phonaks with the interchangeable filters which I bought probably 8 years ago.  What would be 3 high end wireless IEMs that you could recommend I need a pair.  Any help suggestions would be greatly appreciated


Will you buy all 3 to have variety or are you planning to narrow it down from there?

On SQ alone (so far):
-Noble Falcon Pro
-Cambridge Melomania Touch
-UE FITS

Alternatively, there's TWS adapters for 2-pin/MMCX IEMs you may want to consider. I personally love the iBasso CF01, but haven't tried the other offerings yet.


----------



## Jaunty (May 14, 2021)

Tstorey said:


> Thanks for the heads up, after ruminating for ages on whether I can justify the £279 for the MW08 these seem an absolute steal. Also went for the slim reaper as the most subtle of them all (it’s all relative 😂). Looking forward to trying these out.


My M&D MW07 Plus arrived today. Colour me impressed on first use, although the bar wasn’t too high with my current TWS (Jabra 65t and Pamu Quiet). I’ve got some wired  molded Livewires and Shure SE500 I have used Witham adapter, and some decent full size cans  (eg Senn HD650) knocking about too and Sony WH-1000 Xm2 for noise cancelling.

The MW07 Plus fit me great out of the box, which is half the battle with IEMs I think. The little fins are great. Could go on the dodgems with these and not worry I reckon. Love having real buttons that work and which I’ve learned in 2 minutes. Build quality is outstanding. Charging case much smaller than I expected from the pictures. My model has a matt black stainless steel case that looks great. Sound, I’m no  expert, but they’re not going back. Lots of air and separation, don’t sound like they are in the ear at all. Comfortable +1 hour in but like most IEMs not sure I’d want to wear for a straight 8+ hours which is their battery life.  Yet to ‘test’  connection but my iPhone as main source is always close so don’t expect issues. Noise cancelling not  a strong feature but that’s fine - passive cancelling is pretty good and the ANC helps with droning low frequency. Yet to test phone calls much but seems ok.

So - at half price I’m very happy so far. The offer runs until 31st May 2021 I think [Nike KD13 colourway versions direct from M&D with code HYPE]. Haven’t figured out how to check if they support AAC or not (specs say no but some mixed reports say later  versions did).

Cheers all.


----------



## samandhi

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Those 85t are critically underrated for their ANC performance. It's really something special. Only trick is fitment with the oval tips; just a hair off axis and the whole thing collapses in my ears. Otherwise, it's absolutely phenomenal.
> 
> Will you buy all 3 to have variety or are you planning to narrow it down from there?
> 
> ...


Also maybe another for the list would be the Nuarl N6 or N6 Pro (same thing, just one comes with Spinfit tips + stock tips). If you are into neutral  but massive detail retrieval, these are great. I have read that the N10 and Pro are supposed to be upgrades to the N6, but can't verify that statement because I have not heard them. 

I have not heard the other two on @miserybeforethemusic list, but trust his ear (as ours seem to be pretty close in taste), but the Melomania Touch I own, and since the newest firmware update, they are fantastic! Some continuously have issues with them, whereas others have no problems at all (myself falling into the latter), so take that with a grain of salt. Even for the ones that have had many issues, most people agree that they sound damned good (audiophiles and non-audiophiles alike).


----------



## mainguy

Jaunty said:


> My M&D MW07 Plus arrived today. Colour me impressed on first use, although the bar wasn’t too high with my current TWS (Jabra 65t and Pamu Quiet). I’ve got some wired  molded Livewires and Shure SE500 I have used Witham adapter, and some decent full size cans  (eg Senn HD650) knocking about too and Sony WH-1000 Xm2 for noise cancelling.
> 
> The MW07 Plus fit me great out of the box, which is half the battle with IEMs I think. The little fins are great. Could go on the dodgems with these and not worry I


what a steal for 115, theyre brilliant buds


----------



## TheOnlyDocc

I hope someone can help me. I search for a BT Amp for my IEM´s. I were able to test the Fiio BTR3K from a friend some time ago. In general i liked it. But when i used low impedance IEM´s (16Ω and one 22Ω)  i could hear a faint hiss and popping noise on low volume. After that i searched on the Web and found that this is a known problem with the BTR3K.
Then i checked the Shanling UP2. Seems to be a decent one. But it seems the App is a mess (connection problems, only a 5 band EQ and some more issues). Also i could not find any information how you can controll Titel jump Forward/Backwards/play/pause on the UP2. But in general it seems that the Sound is ok.
And every review i can find about the HiBy W3 is not making me want to spend money on it (+ it seems that the quality/longevity of the device is not good at all).
So I hope soemone can give me some tipps regarding a BT Amp for my IEM´s. Maybe a device i have not found yet, or if maybe problems with Fiio have been solved via a firmware update. . .


----------



## SemiAudiophile

Jaunty said:


> So - at half price I’m very happy so far. The offer runs until 31st May 2021 I think [Nike KD13 colourway versions direct from M&D with code Hype]. Haven’t figured out how to check if they support AAC or not (specs say no but some mixed reports say later  versions did).


Those Nike KD editions do look nice. If I didn't already have the TWS I already have, I probably would pick one up too. Just don't think I'd be using them enough in my rotation.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

TheOnlyDocc said:


> I hope someone can help me. I search for a BT Amp for my IEM´s. I were able to test the Fiio BTR3K from a friend some time ago. In general i liked it. But when i used low impedance IEM´s (16Ω and one 22Ω)  i could hear a faint hiss and popping noise on low volume. After that i searched on the Web and found that this is a known problem with the BTR3K.
> Then i checked the Shanling UP2. Seems to be a decent one. But it seems the App is a mess (connection problems, only a 5 band EQ and some more issues). Also i could not find any information how you can controll Titel jump Forward/Backwards/play/pause on the UP2. But in general it seems that the Sound is ok.
> And every review i can find about the HiBy W3 is not making me want to spend money on it (+ it seems that the quality/longevity of the device is not good at all).
> So I hope soemone can give me some tipps regarding a BT Amp for my IEM´s. Maybe a device i have not found yet, or if maybe problems with Fiio have been solved via a firmware update. . .


Either the Fiio BTR5 or Qudelix 5k would probably be my suggestions. The 5k is, effectively, an evolution of the ES100.

Do you need a specific cable termination?


----------



## samandhi (May 13, 2021)

TheOnlyDocc said:


> I hope someone can help me. I search for a BT Amp for my IEM´s. I were able to test the Fiio BTR3K from a friend some time ago. In general i liked it. But when i used low impedance IEM´s (16Ω and one 22Ω)  i could hear a faint hiss and popping noise on low volume. After that i searched on the Web and found that this is a known problem with the BTR3K.
> Then i checked the Shanling UP2. Seems to be a decent one. But it seems the App is a mess (connection problems, only a 5 band EQ and some more issues). Also i could not find any information how you can controll Titel jump Forward/Backwards/play/pause on the UP2. But in general it seems that the Sound is ok.
> And every review i can find about the HiBy W3 is not making me want to spend money on it (+ it seems that the quality/longevity of the device is not good at all).
> So I hope soemone can give me some tipps regarding a BT Amp for my IEM´s. Maybe a device i have not found yet, or if maybe problems with Fiio have been solved via a firmware update. . .


I am not sure you can beat that for the price, but will look around. Have you considered just buying a decent DAP? I realize it would be a bit bigger, but it seems that this is a really good price for what you get in this thing. Man, that sucks that there is a hiss going on. Have you found whether it is a software thing or is it the output impedance? I could not find that information to tell. 16 and 22 ohms seems like it should be up into the (no longer worrying about hiss) area, unless their efficiency is really high also. Have you considered the next one up in Fiio's stable of BT recievers? Like maybe  THIS


Edit: Then I also found THIS which seems to have at least the same(ish) features as the Fiio, plus you can connect wired with USB-C and use it that way while charging at the same time...


----------



## SemiAudiophile (May 13, 2021)

Ok, I bit since they have ANC and ambient mode (and since I'm a fan of KD). Will see how they compare to my other TWS and if they are good enough for the plane.

I went with the easy money snipers.


----------



## CocaCola15 (May 13, 2021)

Echo Buds v2 arrived today, $99 presale price. I have had them in maybe 25 minutes, and I have to say with a very minor tweak using the Alexa app (very basic EQ functionality) dialing back the highs one click and boosting the bass one click, sounding excellent for the price point and the compatibility with Alexa etc. Using the medium tips that came on the buds, will try a larger pair maybe, but they feel snug without adding the included wings. Passed the head shaking test (though I am not often out listening to music and shaking my head violently). My ears are old, so take my POV with a grain of salt, but they compare very favorably with the Cambridge Audio Melomania Touch and Melomania 1+, as well as the Status Between Pro (the three TW phones I now own). Comfort/fit is good. No touch control for volume, but you can just tell Alexa to do it. In fact, Alexa can do all the commands pretty much. Have to say, even though the other TW phones I have may work with voice commands, I never thought to try them before. Doh! I do like the ability to change tracks and volume with a voice command. Listening to my "headphone playlist" full of different genres/styles of music and so far, so good. No, they are probably not on par with the TOTL TWs out there, but for $99, pretty, pretty good (doing my best Larry David impression).

Minor update. I have screwy ears, using the medium tip in my right ear and the large in my left. The tips have a sort of waxguard built in, it seems. But not a muffled delivery, not at all. So whatever those color-coded filters are, they are not affecting the sound.

Another update, the ANC on these is okay, not great. Didn't expect much on that front at $99. It's about the same as a good passive pair of IEMs, thinking Ety and even the new BLON Minis that arrived yesterday. ANC, to me, is nice, but more for full-sized phones like the Sony M3s. For TW IEMs, I get a good enough seal with the phones I have. These Echo Buds are fine; they are also the only TW buds I own with ANC. I think I will keep them, but time will tell.


----------



## TK33

TheOnlyDocc said:


> I hope someone can help me. I search for a BT Amp for my IEM´s. I were able to test the Fiio BTR3K from a friend some time ago. In general i liked it. But when i used low impedance IEM´s (16Ω and one 22Ω)  i could hear a faint hiss and popping noise on low volume. After that i searched on the Web and found that this is a known problem with the BTR3K.
> Then i checked the Shanling UP2. Seems to be a decent one. But it seems the App is a mess (connection problems, only a 5 band EQ and some more issues). Also i could not find any information how you can controll Titel jump Forward/Backwards/play/pause on the UP2. But in general it seems that the Sound is ok.
> And every review i can find about the HiBy W3 is not making me want to spend money on it (+ it seems that the quality/longevity of the device is not good at all).
> So I hope soemone can give me some tipps regarding a BT Amp for my IEM´s. Maybe a device i have not found yet, or if maybe problems with Fiio have been solved via a firmware update. . .


If looking for a separate device, definitely check out the Qudelix 5K. The PEQ is great.  

There was some recent discussion on this thread about TWS adapters for IEMs (MMCX or 2 pin) if youre looking to go wireless.  Depends on if you want the flexibility to keep using your IEMs wired without swapping cables/adapters all the time or if you want to get rid of all the cables.


----------



## TK33 (May 13, 2021)

CocaCola15 said:


> I do like the ability to change tracks and volume with a voice command.



I hope I never have to sit next to you on a plane.  Just kidding...

I do have to say, one thing I took for granted on my Surface Pro 4 were the volume buttons.  I didnt realize how much I had gotten used to having volume buttons on it (and on my phones) until I got this XPS 13 2 in 1 laptop and now I cant adjust volume in tablet mode as quickly.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

@TheOnlyDocc I'll also mention, just for the sake of synergy, that I can use the iBasso CF01 on every IEM in the stable so far and none produce an audible hiss. I believe the CF01 was unnecessarily jeered for having this issue; turns out it makes for fantastic synergy with IEMs in the nominal impedance range you're mentioning. Handles the P1 without hiss, fwiw.


TK33 said:


> I hope I never have to sit next to you on a plane.  Just kidding...


Hahahahaha better get those ANC buds ready.

Could you imagine a plane full of us? It would end up being the most anti-social social event ever because we'd just be listening to TWS.

Y'all would probably confine me to the lavatory after a while...


----------



## CocaCola15

samandhi said:


> I am not sure you can beat that for the price, but will look around. Have you considered just buying a decent DAP? I realize it would be a bit bigger, but it seems that this is a really good price for what you get in this thing. Man, that sucks that there is a hiss going on. Have you found whether it is a software thing or is it the output impedance? I could not find that information to tell. 16 and 22 ohms seems like it should be up into the (no longer worrying about hiss) area, unless their efficiency is really high also.
> 
> Have you considered the next one up in Fiio's stable of BT recievers? Like maybe  THIS





TK33 said:


> I hope I never have to sit next to you on a plane.  Just kidding...


----------



## CocaCola15

miserybeforethemusic said:


> @TheOnlyDocc I'll also mention, just for the sake of synergy, that I can use the iBasso CF01 on every IEM in the stable so far and none produce an audible hiss. I believe the CF01 was unnecessarily jeered for having this issue; turns out it makes for fantastic synergy with IEMs in the nominal impedance range you're mentioning. Handles the P1 without hiss, fwiw.
> 
> Hahahahaha better get those ANC buds ready.
> 
> ...


Haha. I was thinking more of being out on the street so people think I am talking to myself (and scaring them away from me). But that is a funny.


----------



## samandhi

miserybeforethemusic said:


> @TheOnlyDocc I'll also mention, just for the sake of synergy, that I can use the iBasso CF01 on every IEM in the stable so far and none produce an audible hiss. I believe the CF01 was unnecessarily jeered for having this issue; turns out it makes for fantastic synergy with IEMs in the nominal impedance range you're mentioning. Handles the P1 without hiss, fwiw.
> 
> Hahahahaha better get those ANC buds ready.
> 
> ...


Just a bunch of people talking, but none to each other...


----------



## Tstorey

Jaunty said:


> My M&D MW07 Plus arrived today. Colour me impressed on first use, although the bar wasn’t too high with my current TWS (Jabra 65t and Pamu Quiet). I’ve got some wired  molded Livewires and Shure SE500 I have used Witham adapter, and some decent full size cans  (eg Senn HD650) knocking about too and Sony WH-1000 Xm2 for noise cancelling.
> 
> The MW07 Plus fit me great out of the box, which is half the battle with IEMs I think. The little fins are great. Could go on the dodgems with these and not worry I reckon. Love having real buttons that work and which I’ve learned in 2 minutes. Build quality is outstanding. Charging case much smaller than I expected from the pictures. My model has a matt black stainless steel case that looks great. Sound, I’m no  expert, but they’re not going back. Lots of air and separation, don’t sound like they are in the ear at all. Comfortable +1 hour in but like most IEMs not sure I’d want to wear for a straight 8+ hours which is their battery life.  Yet to ‘test’  connection but my iPhone as main source is always close so don’t expect issues. Noise cancelling not  a strong feature but that’s fine - passive cancelling is pretty good and the ANC helps with droning low frequency. Yet to test phone calls much but seems ok.
> 
> ...


Mine arrive Monday apparently and I’m now even more excited to get my hands (ears?) on them. I’ve also got the Jabra 65ts mainly for exercising in now and I find them OK (compared to my CIEMs of course) for general listening and the convenience is there too.


----------



## senorbroom

New Xiaomi ANC TWS: https://www.notebookcheck.net/Xiaom...latest-ANC-TWS-earbuds-with-ANC.539464.0.html

Interestingly, these come with the same Qualcomm QCC5151 used by the Bowers & Wilkins PI7.


----------



## LordToneeus

These came fast. I’ll let you know.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

LordToneeus said:


> These came fast. I’ll let you know.


Wow that was fast.

Looks _veeeerrry _similar to the BT20s with a different wire. Not saying that's a bad thing; just the first one to come to mind. Are you going to keep it QDC or shave off the shroud?


----------



## Robius

Moondrop knows how to tune an earphone but I'm waiting for the feedbacks espacially about fit.


----------



## Robius

senorbroom said:


> New Xiaomi ANC TWS: https://www.notebookcheck.net/Xiaom...latest-ANC-TWS-earbuds-with-ANC.539464.0.html
> 
> Interestingly, these come with the same Qualcomm QCC5151 used by the Bowers & Wilkins PI7.


Damn they look hot.


----------



## LordToneeus

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Wow that was fast.
> 
> Looks _veeeerrry _similar to the BT20s with a different wire. Not saying that's a bad thing; just the first one to come to mind. Are you going to keep it QDC or shave off the shroud?


These are intended for my ZAX, so no plans to make any mods. But we’ll see…


----------



## tinyman392

LordToneeus said:


> These came fast. I’ll let you know.



That looks really good.  All the adapters look like they're modified versions of each other


----------



## earmonger

Jaunty said:


> The offer runs until 31st May 2021 I think [Nike KD13 colourway versions direct from M&D with code Hype]. Haven’t figured out how to check if they support AAC or not (specs say no but some mixed reports say later  versions did).
> 
> Cheers all.


I don't see an offer. Which color (there are 10) has the discount?


----------



## aldinho878

Is there a way to control the kef mu3 ANC other than the left earbud? Say you're using the right side only. Is anc always turned on by default or can that be changed to off?


----------



## erockg

aldinho878 said:


> Is there a way to control the kef mu3 ANC other than the left earbud? Say you're using the right side only. Is anc always turned on by default or can that be changed to off?


Sadly, left side only.


----------



## jsmiller58

CocaCola15 said:


> Echo Buds v2 arrived today, $99 presale price. I have had them in maybe 25 minutes, and I have to say with a very minor tweak using the Alexa app (very basic EQ functionality) dialing back the highs one click and boosting the bass one click, sounding excellent for the price point and the compatibility with Alexa etc. Using the medium tips that came on the buds, will try a larger pair maybe, but they feel snug without adding the included wings. Passed the head shaking test (though I am not often out listening to music and shaking my head violently). My ears are old, so take my POV with a grain of salt, but they compare very favorably with the Cambridge Audio Melomania Touch and Melomania 1+, as well as the Status Between Pro (the three TW phones I now own). Comfort/fit is good. No touch control for volume, but you can just tell Alexa to do it. In fact, Alexa can do all the commands pretty much. Have to say, even though the other TW phones I have may work with voice commands, I never thought to try them before. Doh! I do like the ability to change tracks and volume with a voice command. Listening to my "headphone playlist" full of different genres/styles of music and so far, so good. No, they are probably not on par with the TOTL TWs out there, but for $99, pretty, pretty good (doing my best Larry David impression).
> 
> Minor update. I have screwy ears, using the medium tip in my right ear and the large in my left. The tips have a sort of waxguard built in, it seems. But not a muffled delivery, not at all. So whatever those color-coded filters are, they are not affecting the sound.
> 
> Another update, the ANC on these is okay, not great. Didn't expect much on that front at $99. It's about the same as a good passive pair of IEMs, thinking Ety and even the new BLON Minis that arrived yesterday. ANC, to me, is nice, but more for full-sized phones like the Sony M3s. For TW IEMs, I get a good enough seal with the phones I have. These Echo Buds are fine; they are also the only TW buds I own with ANC. I think I will keep them, but time will tell.


Got mine today as well.  Not sure about the sound yet - a bit bright and also lacking body.  Have tuned the treble way down, the bass way up, and the mids just a little bit down.  ANC is decent, not great, but, well, earbuds...  was on calls for a few hours today with them.  No one complained about the call quality, but I should ask next time!  Will play with them some more.


----------



## Mouseman

The Lypertek Z7s are up for pre-order. Is anyone going to bite? I wish they had ANC, but hear-through is nice.


----------



## CocaCola15 (May 13, 2021)

jsmiller58 said:


> Got mine today as well.  Not sure about the sound yet - a bit bright and also lacking body.  Have tuned the treble way down, the bass way up, and the mids just a little bit down.  ANC is decent, not great, but, well, earbuds...  was on calls for a few hours today with them.  No one complained about the call quality, but I should ask next time!  Will play with them some more.


Yeah, definitely have to EQ them on the extremes but that seemed to help. Tone down the treble and boost the bass. Going through some of my “test” tracks now. But sound much better than OOB. At $99, decent. Do I need them? No. Will I keep them? Not sure. With my other TW buds, may not keep them. But they do sound very decent. Being one of the members who limits $$$ outlay to $150 or less for TW buds, I would not be unhappy with the Echo Buds @$99.
Regarding ANC, decent but not top shelf.


----------



## samandhi

Mouseman said:


> The Lypertek Z7s are up for pre-order. Is anyone going to bite? I wish they had ANC, but hear-through is nice.


They certainly look interesting, but I think I am set for the moment. I will have to say, they probably should spend some money for a professional web-site. In the specs it says: 
Bluetooth 5.2 / TureWireless Mirroring Technology / aptX Adaptive​That was one thing, but if you read on, EVERY place it mentions true wireless (at least 3 more times), it is spelled that way.. LOL Unless TureWireless mirroring is some new technology...  I get that there will be some grammar issues because of the translation from Chinese to English..... Anyhow for some reason that tickled me a bit.


----------



## aldinho878

Do you know if the ANC is always on by default? 


erockg said:


> Sadly, left side only.


----------



## SemiAudiophile (May 14, 2021)

Mouseman said:


> The Lypertek Z7s are up for pre-order. Is anyone going to bite? I wish they had ANC, but hear-through is nice.


They did pique my interest, but I think I've become more picky with TWS now. Since I know I can get better sound with IEMs and a BT adapter I am now looking for more features when it comes to TWS like ANC, ambient, etc. Unless they have a specific sound signature that I like (Grado/Senn), that would be the exception.

I still enjoy my Tevi's quite a lot (still one of my fav TWS). Been applying the AutoEQ with Wavelet on them and they sound much smoother_. _


----------



## Jaunty (May 14, 2021)

earmonger said:


> I don't see an offer. Which color (there are 10) has the discount?


The offer is in the sentence you quoted? Use the discount code HYPE. The are 5 Nike KD13   Versions. Hopefully this link shows them for you https://www.masterdynamic.com/pages/master-dynamic-nike
(The MH40 KD13 headphones are also a bargain at 50% off)


----------



## TheOnlyDocc

First i have to say thank you for all the answeres! I did not expect to get so many infos in such a short time.
I spend some time to check the suggested devices.
@ miserybeforethemusic
After a bit of resurch i think i found the right one for me. The Qudelix 5k. It has everything i want 
(exept the price. but i will not be happy with the cheaper ones, so i have to make it work).
I really like that i can use the EQ even when using the LDAC code. And a decent App is also worth a lot.
But i can not find any info which Windows versions are supported. I ask because i use a old Win 7 PC at my workbench and it would be nice if i could use the Qudelix 5k as a USB DAC when i am soldering /repairing stuff. But i have another question.
Please correct me if i am wrong. To use the 2,5mm outpute i would need a completly new cable for my CCA CKX (balanced cable?).
Because the standart 3,5mm cable is using common ground and 2,5mm not, there is no way to use a adapter from 3,5 to 2,5.?.?
If i am right can someone point me in the right direction to a decent cable that does not cost as much as the Heapphones ?


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

TheOnlyDocc said:


> First i have to say thank you for all the answeres! I did not expect to get so many infos in such a short time.
> I spend some time to check the suggested devices.
> @ miserybeforethemusic
> After a bit of resurch i think i found the right one for me. The Qudelix 5k. It has everything i want
> ...


Correct. The wiring scheme itself is different, but the 3.5mm connection is a great starting point. Cables like the Tripowin C8 (check Amazon) are budget grand slams when you're ready to upgrade.


----------



## TheOnlyDocc (May 14, 2021)

OK Thank you again! Are all the 2,5mm cables for IEM´s balanced cables?
Will order the cable (from AE) at the same time i order the Qudelix 5k because the EU custom regulations change at 01.07.2021. From that time on we have to pay custom fees on all orders above 5€ inclusive shipping costs.  So it makes sense to get things like this now.
And what do you think about the Tripowin Zonie 16 cable? I ask not because it is slightly cheaper. I ask because it looks like it is braided tighter. So i would expect that it will not twist/tangles that easy.
​


----------



## scansp7

Thanks for the recommendations everyone, here is a few that seemed to popup:

UE FITS- $199// BT 5.0// Playback per chrage 20hr+// SQ- high
https://custom.ultimateears.com/pages/ue-fits

Nobel Audio Falcon Pro - $ 239// Playback per charge 7hr// SQ- High
https://www.nobleaudio.com/wireless/p/falcon-pro

Lypertek Pureplay Z7- $199.99 // BT 5.2 // Playback per Chrage 10hr but Can charge wirelessly from case? SQ??
https://www.lypertek.com/pureplay-z7

Cambridge Audio Melomania Touch- $129.99// BT 5.0// 50hr per chage// SQ- high
https://www.cambridgeaudio.com/usa/en/products/headphones/melomania-touch

Master Dynamic MW08- $299 // BT 5.2// Charge? // SQ- high
https://www.masterdynamic.com/products/mw08-active-noise-cancelling-true-wireless-earphones


For me the most important factors are Sound Quality, comfort and battery life/ connectivity. Probably hard to fins al those in one

ANC is not the biggest issue for me as I've never been a huge fan of it.

Im not sure if there is a big difference between Bluetooth 5.0 and 5.2?

So far it seems the the MWo8's are the best out in the list above?  But the UE fits seem like they coudl be the kings of comfort?

Please feel free to add anything else!


----------



## bronco1015

scansp7 said:


> Thanks for the recommendations everyone, here is a few that seemed to popup:
> 
> UE FITS- $199// BT 5.0// Playback per chrage 20hr+// SQ- high
> https://custom.ultimateears.com/pages/ue-fits
> ...


haven't listened to the first 4, but if sound is top priority, don't get MW08 IMO. Borring splashy sound except for portions of the mids and treble. have you checked out the Technics AZ70? they're a huge step up in sound from the MW08, cost less at their full MSRP and have way better ANC which could be just a nice bonus.


----------



## scansp7

Interesting.. First time I have heard about the Technics AZ70


----------



## scansp7

Seems there is alot of talk about the New Devialet Gemini:
https://www.devialet.com/en-us/true-wireless-earbuds/


----------



## tiagopinto

TheOnlyDocc said:


> OK Thank you again! Are all the 2,5mm cables for IEM´s balanced cables?
> Will order the cable (from AE) at the same time i order the Qudelix 5k because the EU custom regulations change at 01.07.2021. From that time on we have to pay custom fees on all orders above 5€ inclusive shipping costs.  So it makes sense to get things like this now.
> And what do you think about the Tripowin Zonie 16 cable? I ask not because it is slightly cheaper. I ask because it looks like it is braided tighter. So i would expect that it will not twist/tangles that easy.
> ​



What are these changes in customs regulations? With China? Please explain, thanks.


----------



## vladzakhar

Thank you guys for recommending FiiO UTWS3 + ZAX COMBO. Fantastic sound.
Any other recommendations to use with UTWS3, maybe with a little darker signature. UTWS3 + ZAX is a little bright for me.
Did anybody tried any Campfire Audio Products with Fiio?


----------



## bronco1015

scansp7 said:


> Seems there is alot of talk about the New Devialet Gemini:
> https://www.devialet.com/en-us/true-wireless-earbuds/


Had some major issues to start, but they were pulled for a couple months IIRC and some have purchased them. pretty sure the previous issues have been resolved. People have great things to say about them.


----------



## BigZ12 (May 14, 2021)

vladzakhar said:


> Thank you guys for recommending FiiO UTWS3 + ZAX COMBO. Fantastic sound.
> Any other recommendations to use with UTWS3, maybe with a little darker signature. UTWS3 + ZAX is a little bright for me.
> Did anybody tried any Campfire Audio Products with Fiio?


I was thinking of buying the UTWS3 and pair it with the Moondrop Aria 2 (edit) and/or Ikko OH10.


----------



## scansp7

Any suggestions for a good sports wireless IEM's?


----------



## scansp7

bronco1015 said:


> Had some major issues to start, but they were pulled for a couple months IIRC and some have purchased them. pretty sure the previous issues have been resolved. People have great things to say about them.


IS there a difference in manufacturing, eg older units may not be able to resolve the connection issues? Or is it something that just a firmware update can resolve?


----------



## BigZ12 (May 14, 2021)

scansp7 said:


> Any suggestions for a good sports wireless IEM's?


If you get a good fit, I would recommend the Lypertek Tevi/Pureplay Z3. They have IPX7 rating which is great if you sweat/use it outdoors in rain etc..
I use them with the Comply foam tips. Lose a tiny bit of oomph in the bass, but it limits the "thump" when running to a minimum compared to silicone tips.
Edit: And they are loud


----------



## earmonger

Jaunty said:


> The offer is in the sentence you quoted? Use the discount code HYPE. The are 5 Nike KD13   Versions. Hopefully this link shows them for you https://www.masterdynamic.com/pages/master-dynamic-nike
> (The MH40 KD13 headphones are also a bargain at 50% off)


Thanks--that was on a different page from the MW07. Very tempting!


----------



## TK33

TheOnlyDocc said:


> OK Thank you again! Are all the 2,5mm cables for IEM´s balanced cables?
> Will order the cable (from AE) at the same time i order the Qudelix 5k because the EU custom regulations change at 01.07.2021. From that time on we have to pay custom fees on all orders above 5€ inclusive shipping costs.  So it makes sense to get things like this now.
> And what do you think about the Tripowin Zonie 16 cable? I ask not because it is slightly cheaper. I ask because it looks like it is braided tighter. So i would expect that it will not twist/tangles that easy.
> ​


The 5K is a great device and seems to tick all the boxes for you.  I have been very happy with mine and still use it almost daily   it is technically not a "true wireless" device but there is a dedicated thread here if you have any questions.

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/the-qudelix-5k-thread.914628/

Qudelix support also does a great job in responding if you post on their official (non-headfi) forum.


----------



## clerkpalmer

Is Apple really going to showcase their new HiRes tier with a standard AirPod? Waiting with baited breath... should be interesting.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

scansp7 said:


> Thanks for the recommendations everyone, here is a few that seemed to popup:
> 
> UE FITS- $199// BT 5.0// Playback per chrage 20hr+// SQ- high
> https://custom.ultimateears.com/pages/ue-fits
> ...


I have all but the Z7 and MW08, though I had the MW07 GO and couldn't stand it.

The FITS are, in theory, the most comfortable, but also have the most "neutral" sound signature. It's a grower and I usually find myself enveloped in it after about 45 minutes of listening. It does not immediately grab you as a fantastic pair.

However, the semi-custom fit process is new and temperamental. Luckily, UE has been very accommodating with me on getting the fit just right. New tips #3 arrive today. Keep in mind I have a funky right ear, so this is not entirely their fault.

The Melomania Touch have a warm, robust sounds signature (similar to the M&D), but provide enough midrange and treble detail to avoid being dark. Some have had issues with firmware that have since been corrected while others have issues with charging in the case.

The Technics also have a charging issue; the case parasitically drains the battery over time. This becomes a non-issue if they're your daily driver, but I have pulled my pair out a couple times only to find the battery completely dead. Just got my second pair back via RMA. Hopefully this has been corrected, but I'm not optimistic. Don't care; like the FITS, they have an airiness about them that makes them a mainstay in the collection.

The Lypertek and Noble will probably be the best all-rounders, just at different ends of the price spectrum. I don't have the Lypertek, so can't comment on it. I do have the Noble. Ergonomics? Check? SQ? Check. Good app and stable firmware? Check. AptX Adaptive, so far, has not been ready for primetime, though, so I recommend running them on aptX instead. Very sensitive IEMs, but the app includes a pre-gain slider to help with volume control. If you can max those out, I question your sanity.

Wouldn't put too much stock in the sub-variants of BT 5. There's theoretical benefits in latency and range, but it's pretty negligible in practice.


scansp7 said:


> Interesting.. First time I have heard about the Technics AZ70


He and I might be the sole acolytes for the AZ70Ws left for reasons mentioned above. I positively love them, though.


scansp7 said:


> Any suggestions for a good sports wireless IEM's?


Jabra Elite Active 75t. Swap the tips with EPro TW00 to improve the tip grip and you'll have a rock-solid pair of workout buds you can also take with you into a day of WebEx calls. Firmware updates introduced ANC, which is serviceable, but as you mentioned it's not a priority, consider it a fringe benefit. Unlike the 65t/85t, these are tuned for fun. Don't do serious listening on these. Break personal records with 'em.

If you want more info, feel free to PM me (I am not a vendor and I am not trying to peddle my own wares). Just believe these purchases are personal things and it'll take time to make a personal recommendation.


----------



## TheOnlyDocc (May 14, 2021)

@tiagopinto
At the moment we have a tax free threshold of ~26€. Every Package with value below this is tax free and gets delivered to your home address without any additional cost.  At 01.07.2021 this will change. From that date on every package with a value above 5,20€ will cost tax. And here in Germany you have 2 choices.
1. You can pay the tax at the customs office. But you have to drive to the office for each package (for me ~20km forth and 20km back) and most of the time wait 1h and more to get the package.
2. You can allow DHL to do it for you (then you can pay when the package is delivered to your home address). But this will cost extra fees. If the custom declaration for the package is complete and everything is correct you only have to pay 6€ ontop of the 19% tax (DHL takes this money becuase they pay the tax in advance and this is the fee for it). If DHL has to handle the custom papers because it is not filled in correctly from the sender they take another 28,50€ for doing it.
So if you get a 6€ package from outside the EU (inclusive shipping costs) and you get it yourself at the custom office you will have to pay 1,14€ tax
If the papers are correct filled in and DHL handles the package, you have to pay additional 7,14€ (6€ DHL fee +1,14€ tax)
If the papers are not correct filled in and DHL has to do everything it will cost you additional 35,64€ (28,50 DHL custom declaration fee, 6€ DHL fee for paying the tax in advance +1,14€ tax)
Regardless what you do. It will end up in way more work  (for every package from outside the EU) or it will get very expensive.
So at the moment i order a lot of stuff.  Usually i would order the stuff over the next few month but because of the new regulation i try to get it to me before 01.07.
I hope that for example Aliexpress will get Warehouses inside the EU ready when the new regulation is in place. But it will take time to get everything smooth running again.
And even if they ger the warehouses inside the EU. You can be sure that everything will get a bit more expensive.
​


----------



## guido

vladzakhar said:


> Thank you guys for recommending FiiO UTWS3 + ZAX COMBO. Fantastic sound.
> Any other recommendations to use with UTWS3, maybe with a little darker signature. UTWS3 + ZAX is a little bright for me.
> Did anybody tried any Campfire Audio Products with Fiio?


The DUNU DK-3001 pro are outstanding withe the MMCX version of the UTWS3…. probably end-game for me…but it is a 600 euro outlay🤪


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

TheOnlyDocc said:


> OK Thank you again! Are all the 2,5mm cables for IEM´s balanced cables?
> Will order the cable (from AE) at the same time i order the Qudelix 5k because the EU custom regulations change at 01.07.2021. From that time on we have to pay custom fees on all orders above 5€ inclusive shipping costs.  So it makes sense to get things like this now.
> And what do you think about the Tripowin Zonie 16 cable? I ask not because it is slightly cheaper. I ask because it looks like it is braided tighter. So i would expect that it will not twist/tangles that easy.
> ​


The Zonie should work out well, too. I just recommend the C8 because ears I trust own it and love it. Would not expect the Zonie to be a massive departure from that.

The cables I use come from the company pictured; they won't be Tripowin cheap, but it also wouldn't surprise me if they're all built under the same roof anyway. Fwiw, some of these companies are not allowed to be discussed on Head-Fi for...unsavory business practices. These guys have given me no grief.




They can also be terminated in 2-pin or QDC if that's what your IEM needs. Never tangles.


vladzakhar said:


> Thank you guys for recommending FiiO UTWS3 + ZAX COMBO. Fantastic sound.
> Any other recommendations to use with UTWS3, maybe with a little darker signature. UTWS3 + ZAX is a little bright for me.
> Did anybody tried any Campfire Audio Products with Fiio?


Not the Fiio, but my writeup for the Comet with the iBasso CF01 is up earlier in this thread. Mixed feelings, but that has more to do with the Comet itself than the pairing. No hiss, but it's also not an Andromeda, so can't say definitively if you'll experience it. Once my OE adapters show up, I'll run the gamut on my 2-pin IEMs.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

guido said:


> The DUNU DK-3001 pro are outstanding withe the MMCX version of the UTWS3…. probably end-game for me…but it is a 600 euro outlay🤪


100% agree, just on a different adapter. That IEM in general is a neutral-lover's dream.


----------



## LordToneeus

Pairing was as simple as opening the case (once I removed the blue shipping tape from the contacts) and opening thr Bluetooth settings on my iPhone.  I was immediately impressed with the sound! These have considerably more power than my TRN BT20S, and the ZAX sound even better.
The fit is very light, but also a bit loose for me. If you look closely, you can see that they don’t even touch the top of my ear. I’ll have to run and jump and play in them to see if that’s gonna be any issue. 
One minor complaint…they don’t seem to automatically connect when I take them out for subsequent listens - I have to open Bluetooth settings on my phone and click on their name. Maybe they would if I let them go for a bit longer….


----------



## SemiAudiophile (May 14, 2021)

vladzakhar said:


> Thank you guys for recommending FiiO UTWS3 + ZAX COMBO. Fantastic sound.
> Any other recommendations to use with UTWS3, maybe with a little darker signature. UTWS3 + ZAX is a little bright for me.
> Did anybody tried any Campfire Audio Products with Fiio?


I don't find the UTWS3 and ZAX combo bright at all. Have you tried EQing the treble down a bit? The Fiio app hasn't been working that well for me but Wavelet is pretty awesome.

The Moondrop B2 Dusk is a excellent pairing as well. I wouldn't necessarily call them "dark" but has a somewhat warmer sound. More like neutral with bass boost.

Depending on your budget, you could also try the Aria, which has supposedly a warmer, bassier sound. Or the Starfield which is more neutral. I haven't heard those those two so take that with a grain of salt.


----------



## guido

I also do not find the ZAX bright in any way with the UTWS3, quite the contrary really…a bit heavier on mid-bass than the DUNU but also sounds excellent (considering it is a fifth the price of the DUNU)


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

LordToneeus said:


> Pairing was as simple as opening the case (once I removed the blue shipping tape from the contacts) and opening thr Bluetooth settings on my iPhone.  I was immediately impressed with the sound! These have considerably more power than my TRN BT20S, and the ZAX sound even better.
> The fit is very light, but also a bit loose for me. If you look closely, you can see that they don’t even touch the top of my ear. I’ll have to run and jump and play in them to see if that’s gonna be any issue.
> One minor complaint…they don’t seem to automatically connect when I take them out for subsequent listens - I have to open Bluetooth settings on my phone and click on their name. Maybe they would if I let them go for a bit longer….


Not to be _that_ guy, but are you sure polarity is good? Wouldn't be the first time one of these pairs is wired out of phase with each other


----------



## Spa03

Love the wireless experience and willing to accept slightly reduced sound performance. Having used quite a few various Bluetooth cables, the best I came across is definitely ikko itb05, it supports 2 akm4377 DACs can drive demanding sets. So far very good (it has its own limitation and downside obvious) 

Close 2nd would be CF01 - had it got more power to drive my EJ09, it would be close to perfect to me: easy to use (like AirPods), good battery life (3hrs if max vol), turn your IEMs into TWS. Battery case has pads to protect your sets and big enough for large sets.

ITB05 - has to get a separate (£10) case in preparing for returning to commuting


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

Spa03 said:


> Love the wireless experience and willing to accept slightly reduced sound performance. Having used quite a few various Bluetooth cables, the best I came across is definitely ikko itb05, it supports 2 akm4377 DACs can drive demanding sets. So far very good (it has its own limitation and downside obvious)
> 
> Close 2nd would be CF01 - had it got more power to drive my EJ09, it would be close to perfect to me: easy to use (like AirPods), good battery life (3hrs if max vol), turn your IEMs into TWS. Battery case has pads to protect your sets and big enough for large sets.
> 
> ITB05 - has to get a separate (£10) case in preparing for returning to commuting


What codecs does the Ikko support? I assume aptx HD, aptX, AAC, and SBC?


----------



## Spa03

miserybeforethemusic said:


> What codecs does the Ikko support? I assume aptx HD, aptX, AAC, and SBC?


Had to pick out the box and yep you are right that what it listed are: APTX, APTX-HD, SBC & AAC… 

I’m using iPhone Apple Music (as it has best sound via Bluetooth vs other streaming services) so AAC for me.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

Spa03 said:


> Had to pick out the box and yep you are right that what it listed are: APTX, APTX-HD, SBC & AAC…
> 
> I’m using iPhone Apple Music (as it has best sound via Bluetooth vs other streaming services) so AAC for me.


Looks like a great piece of kit. The Etymotion's AKM unit is also quite impressive. Shame what happened to their facility. Can't wait for them to bounce back!


----------



## AmericanSpirit

Fake alert for airpods pro. I have my own airpods pro purchased at Apple Store 5th avenue New York, and ordered another pair as a gift from a discounted online shop
https://m.bestbuyairpodprosapple.com/
On amazon on sale airpods pro was $150 and this store offered $130. i thought it was a fair discount. No don’t. Item arrived sounded horrible, no genuine authorization codes, and ANC is fake. It hooks just like real airpods pro, but sound and utility wise it’s just $20 TWS.  Be careful when purchasing airpods pro guys~, I contacted credit card company, paypal, bank, they all refused to refund. Seller offered $5 refund lmao.


----------



## Spa03

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Looks like a great piece of kit. The Etymotion's AKM unit is also quite impressive. Shame what happened to their facility. Can't wait for them to bounce back!


Totally! Really impressed thus far - battery lasting strongly, I’m on 60% of volume. Really well made neckband. Although the cable is very thin that there’s a risk it might snap one day… but if I’m using it daily battery might degraded after extensive use anyways.

Perhaps my poor hearing abilities or Apple Music limitation, previously on my Q5s, wired or Bluetooth I can’t tell difference in my EJ09. Now only ITB05 can drive this 9-driver set, obviously lose out pretty much in all aspects (vs Q5s) - but I’m willing to accept reduced performance in exchange for freedom of wires! For critical listening I can always swap back.

I would say this is not for everyone but for those whom might need bigger power to drive their IEMs, this prob is the only viable “thing” now out there.


----------



## LordToneeus

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Not to be _that_ guy, but are you sure polarity is good? Wouldn't be the first time one of these pairs is wired out of phase with each other


I don't know about that, but when I opened up the case just now they paired immediately.  Hopefully that's how it goes from now on.


----------



## Thesonofkrypton

AmericanSpirit said:


> Fake alert for airpods pro. I have my own airpods pro purchased at Apple Store 5th avenue New York, and ordered another pair as a gift from a discounted online shop
> https://m.bestbuyairpodprosapple.com/
> On amazon on sale airpods pro was $150 and this store offered $130. i thought it was a fair discount. No don’t. Item arrived sounded horrible, no genuine authorization codes, and ANC is fake. It hooks just like real airpods pro, but sound and utility wise it’s just $20 TWS.  Be careful when purchasing airpods pro guys~, I contacted credit card company, paypal, bank, they all refused to refund. Seller offered $5 refund lmao.



Come on my dude, that shady web address should have been all you needed to tell that was not legit.


----------



## bronco1015

scansp7 said:


> IS there a difference in manufacturing, eg older units may not be able to resolve the connection issues? Or is it something that just a firmware update can resolve?


Your best bet is gonna be to search this thread. There are a good number of posts detailing everything from several users.


----------



## TK33

bronco1015 said:


> I'm curious to see whether or not you'll have that issue with the V60 defaulting to Adaptive instead of HD on the PI7. heres hoping that's not the case.


Finally got the PI7.  AptX HD only seems to work for certain devices based on discussions I have seen so far.  I can confirm that it currently defaults to aptX adaptive on the V60 and OnePlus 8T (see screenshots attached).  AptX HD is not available as an option on either phone.  Very disappointing.

I also tried connecting it to my Node 2i and it connects via aptX (not aptX HD).  My Qudelix 5K and Shure BT2 never had problems connecting via aptX HD with the Node 2i.  Seems to be an issue with the PI7.  Hopefully B&W can fix via firmware update


----------



## Canabuc (May 14, 2021)

Anyone see there is a new budget Sennheisers CX wireless?

Seems to be an update of the cx400. Longer battery life ipx4 rating not sure what else.

https://www.thesource.ca/en-ca/audi...-noise-cancelling-earbuds---black/p/108094551


----------



## AmericanSpirit

Thesonofkrypton said:


> Come on my dude, that shady web address should have been all you needed to tell that was not legit.


I must have half drunk lol


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

AmericanSpirit said:


> I must have half drunk lol


I ordered two Tin P1, man. I've done some dumb stuff myself. Happens to the best of us.

Do you have any recourse? Hopefully they had PayPal.


----------



## AmericanSpirit

miserybeforethemusic said:


> I ordered two Tin P1, man. I've done some dumb stuff myself. Happens to the best of us.
> 
> Do you have any recourse? Hopefully they had PayPal.


Haha, yea we make mistakes😂
It was half year go, I already gave up man, just sharing my experience to prevent further tragedy. Man that airpods pro fake sounds terrible😭 $saving 20 extra bucks costed $130.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

Hmm...what could this be?


Special thanks to ADV for helping make this happen


----------



## SemiAudiophile

AmericanSpirit said:


> Haha, yea we make mistakes😂
> It was half year go, I already gave up man, just sharing my experience to prevent further tragedy. Man that airpods pro fake sounds terrible😭 $saving 20 extra bucks costed $130.


Yeah, I would be careful with those ads from IG and Facebook. I tried to buy some sunglasses from a legit looking website. Sometimes if the deal sounds too good to be true, it probably is. They sent me some cheapo  sunglasses from China that I could've got at the dollar store.  

Luckily I paid with PayPal and support was able to help with a refund. But never again. 😅


----------



## Thesonofkrypton (May 14, 2021)

AmericanSpirit said:


> I must have half drunk lol


I guess there are far worse things to have happened under the influence of alcohol lol

I hope you get that sorted!


----------



## BigZ12 (May 14, 2021)

Spa03 said:


> Love the wireless experience and willing to accept slightly reduced sound performance. Having used quite a few various Bluetooth cables, the best I came across is definitely ikko itb05, it supports 2 akm4377 DACs can drive demanding sets. So far very good (it has its own limitation and downside obvious)
> 
> Close 2nd would be CF01 - had it got more power to drive my EJ09, it would be close to perfect to me: easy to use (like AirPods), good battery life (3hrs if max vol), turn your IEMs into TWS. Battery case has pads to protect your sets and big enough for large sets.
> 
> ITB05 - has to get a separate (£10) case in preparing for returning to commuting


I've been considering the Fiio LC-BT2, mostly because of the LDAC support. I have the Fiio BTA-30 transmitter, which works very well with my Sony WH-1000XM4 using LDAC. (edit)
The BTA-30 also supports AptX-HD, so the Ikko ITB05 may also be interesting. (pairing it with the Ikko OH1?!)
Have you heard the LC-BT2 as well?


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

Presenting: the 2nd-Generation M5-TWS from ADV Sounds. Do note that ADV provided this review sample, even in light of my insistence that I would be brutally honest about my experience with them. They have accepted the challenge, and now so shall I.

Based on ADV's claim that the M5 has a "Neutral" signature, I have pulled the following pairs to use for comparison as well as the JBL Club Pro+, which are the most Harmon-esque pair I could find. Since neutral can be a rather nebulous term, I believe the variety presented should be sufficient for comparison.

My word, these are stunning. Camera can't even capture how nice in the hands these feel.

I have them on the charger at the moment, but I am so much more impressed with build quality than I thought I would be. Bar is going to be pretty high for sound now.


----------



## 3Putter (May 14, 2021)

michsu said:


> So Apple is the best overall with sound quality and ANC?


Not to my ears but they are decent. Better can be had for much less. I am liking my Bang & Olufsen H95i 3rd Gen. Better sound and ANC is good. Not as good as APM's but close. Saved $250, too.


----------



## Thesonofkrypton

Probably wishful thinking but I just noticed that amazon uk has 'sony wf-1000xm4 true wireless earbuds' suggested when you type in wf-1000xm4 into the search field (it hasn't been doing that before).  Not sure if that's an indication of what they have preloaded as far as stock goes or just what people search for most.


----------



## Spa03

BigZ12 said:


> I've been considering the Fiio LC-BT2, mostly because of the LDAC support. I have the Fiio BTA-30 transmitter, which works very well with my Sony WH-1000XM4 using LDAC. (edit)
> The BTA-30 also supports AptX-HD, so the Ikko ITB05 may also be interesting. (pairing it with the Ikko OH1?!)
> Have you heard the LC-BT2 as well?


Unfortunately nope, my IEM requires a lot of power to drive it properly so once found ITB05 I’m just set with it. Looks much better made too, felt really premium in hand. Unless your IEM requires a lot of power, which leads really just ITB05… other sets normal ones will be sufficient as my CF01 pairing with EJ07 is perfect event better than with Q5s. 

Also noticed the back of the ITB05 unit each side was secured by 1 single pinhole screw so in very unlucky event the cable snapped should be fairly easy to open it up and attach event better ones  I’m event contemplating doing that soon


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

Spa03 said:


> other sets normal ones will be sufficient as my CF01 pairing with EJ07 is perfect event better than with Q5s


Wow, that's high praise. I don't have much of a basis for comparison on the BT transmitter end anymore; most of my TRN adapters have either been donated off or given up the ghost.

And I totally agree with you; it blows me away that one can connect the Tin P1 to a set of CF01 and have a genuinely enjoyable experience. And one heck of a learning process; I have learned a ton about Bluetooth stacks and audio routing within Android devices (many thanks to @samandhi for our offline rants and gripes). I have not yet had a chance to see if enabling the Gabeldorsche stack improves some of the issues we encountered as that will require _serious _critical listening, but there is an upper limit on signal to those; one the P1 dances with and often exceeds.


----------



## Spa03

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Wow, that's high praise. I don't have much of a basis for comparison on the BT transmitter end anymore; most of my TRN adapters have either been donated off or given up the ghost.
> 
> And I totally agree with you; it blows me away that one can connect the Tin P1 to a set of CF01 and have a genuinely enjoyable experience. And one heck of a learning process; I have learned a ton about Bluetooth stacks and audio routing within Android devices (many thanks to @samandhi for our offline rants and gripes). I have not yet had a chance to see if enabling the Gabeldorsche stack improves some of the issues we encountered as that will require _serious _critical listening, but there is an upper limit on signal to those; one the P1 dances with and often exceeds.


Lol - that was mostly down to the tuning of EJ07, Q5s is towards warmer side hence cf01 allowed it to be more musical. Detail, stage and resolution is better (only very very slightly) with Q5s.

For flagship set such as the EJ09, difference is more noticeable but man I just can’t go back to the fiddly wire way any longer… I’m accepting the drop in sound (ok only slightly) in exchange with wire-free. I recon once swapped ITB05’s stock cable for something much better, it would more close to my Q5s+Single Crystal Silver setup. Will try that one day


----------



## CocaCola15

Back to basics here, with all the talk of combo units, TOTL TW phones, but the humble $99 presale Echo Buds are not bad at all.  I took them for a noisy walk today on the streets of Old City Philly and the ANC actually worked pretty well, and the sound (with a touch of EQ via the Alexa app) is pretty close to the quality delivered by the CA buds.  I compared all four pair I own last night on the same track and the winner was the Status Between Pro. Using Amazon Music HD to stream the track. Seems Status is still not delivering their latest batch, but for basic, on the go TW phones at a good price, the BPs are excellent IMHO. Now, the Echo Buds v2 I received match most of the online reviewers I've read so far. Seems they have all agreed not to release their reviews until May 13, the day early buyers got the Echo Bud latest version. No, they are not TOTL TW in-ear headphones, but for the non-audiophiles out there, a solid price to performance pair of TW phones.

I also managed to walk around without hailing Alexa, not once. I forgot I could use voice to control the Echo Buds, TBH. But it seems weird to talk to your headphones out on the streets.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic (May 14, 2021)

Oh man, these M5 sound impressions are going to be difficult. A lot of people are going to like these. Not to sound too cliché, but I heard dialogue in the background of A Perfect Circle's "The Stranger" that I never knew was there. Had to rip off an earbud more than once to make sure someone wasn't actually talking to me.



That being said, bass is well on the higher end of neutral, but not so warm that it overwhelms the midrange. Perhaps ADV may be choosing to define "neutral" in the Harman Target sense, but the M5 seem to have an ability to handle dynamics in a way that honestly makes me concerned about what the Club Pro+ would have cost without all the extra app development. This thing has been handling the background/studio vocals on APC's _Thirteenth Step_ with such accuracy that it's honestly a little jarring.

If the AZ70W can pull these sort of details out of primarily acoustic material, the M5 manage to chew up modern material and spit it out polished, packaged, and with a bow on top.


----------



## samandhi

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Oh man, these M5 sound impressions are going to be difficult. A lot of people are going to like these. Not to sound too cliché, but I heard dialogue in the background of A Perfect Circle's "The Stranger" that I never knew was there. Had to rip off an earbud more than once to make sure someone wasn't actually talking to me.
> 
> That being said, bass is well on the higher end of neutral, but not so warm that it overwhelms the midrange. Perhaps ADV may be choosing to define "neutral" in the Harman Target sense, but the M5 seem to have an ability to handle dynamics in a way that honestly makes me concerned about what the Club Pro+ would have cost without all the extra app development. This thing has been handling the background/studio vocals on APC's _Thirteenth Step_ with such accuracy that it's honestly a little jarring.
> 
> If the AZ70W can pull these sort of details out of primarily acoustic material, the M5 manage to perform the same  chew up modern material and spit it out polished, packaged, and with a bow on top.


Well, if you don't end up liking them, I would bet (by looking at the FR curve) that Crinacle will love them. The bass doesn't appear to be boosted as much as something like the MT.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

samandhi said:


> Well, if you don't end up liking them, I would bet (by looking at the FR curve) that Crinacle will love them. The bass doesn't appear to be boosted as much as something like the MT.


Which is ironic because I feel like bass _strength _exceeds that of the Melomania Touch. It's the upper midrange that seems to wildly vary between the two, but I think you nailed it:

The M5 is much more of a direct competitor to the Melomania Touch than the previous offerings I mentioned. And it's way too soon to tell whether I lean towards the British or the Japanese.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

For anybody who was planning to buy from Audio46 anyway, found the following coupon code in my inbox. I certainly don't need it:





Gotta use it by Monday!


----------



## jsmiller58

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Oh man, these M5 sound impressions are going to be difficult. A lot of people are going to like these. Not to sound too cliché, but I heard dialogue in the background of A Perfect Circle's "The Stranger" that I never knew was there. Had to rip off an earbud more than once to make sure someone wasn't actually talking to me.
> 
> That being said, bass is well on the higher end of neutral, but not so warm that it overwhelms the midrange. Perhaps ADV may be choosing to define "neutral" in the Harman Target sense, but the M5 seem to have an ability to handle dynamics in a way that honestly makes me concerned about what the Club Pro+ would have cost without all the extra app development. This thing has been handling the background/studio vocals on APC's _Thirteenth Step_ with such accuracy that it's honestly a little jarring.
> 
> If the AZ70W can pull these sort of details out of primarily acoustic material, the M5 manage to chew up modern material and spit it out polished, packaged, and with a bow on top.


I.  Really.  Don’t.  Need.  This.

It is already in the cart.  Someone, please help me.


----------



## bladefd

jsmiller58 said:


> I.  Really.  Don’t.  Need.  This.
> 
> It is already in the cart.  Someone, please help me.


R.I.P. lol


----------



## Luke Skywalker

erockg said:


> I tend to agree with you after having experienced the B&Ws, NFP and KEF at this exact moment.  I think @Luke Skywalker is in love with his KEFs and I can totally see why.


Ha yes I am.  I'm just catching up with this thread after a busy week...  So interestingly, my KEF's stopped playing music at the gym a week or so ago.  I figured that the battery was just dead but when I got home and took them out, they wouldn't connect or charge.  I fiddled around with them for a while and then emailed KEF support. 

Super fast reply... Actually two different guys reached out to me telling me how to do hard reset:

Please try out the HARD RESET process.
Put back the earbuds into the charging case,
Hold the “Multifunction” button on both earbuds for 8 Sec (LED turn white and blue alternately).

Please try to pull up two earbuds at the same time from the charging case and pair it again.
Here's the funny part... I opened the case to do this and of course... the damned things lit up.  Stuck them in my ears and they worked perfectly and I've never had another issue. 

I like to think of myself as a logical thinker and although I was happy that they just started working, I'm wondering how exactly that happened when I literally changed nothing and did the same thing I'd done probably 50 times. 

So great support, loving the sound as much as always.   

So what should I buy next?  I'm looking for something that doesn't need to be EQ'd, like the KEFs.  Maybe the Grado's?  You guys seem to think highly of the B&W's and the NFP, but I've heard you need to EQ the falcon's and that drives me nuts.  I always feel like it's not set quite right


----------



## Luke Skywalker

BigZ12 said:


> Some specs and several comments here lateley, suggests I should just keep my MTW2s and stay happy with that?
> 
> MW08 - muddy bass, too warm sound
> PI7 - no volume control on buds/bad battery and the sound is not in line with the price?
> ...


I would make a slight correction to what you say... I'd say the Mu3's have "average/decent" ANC.  I can't hear any background noise as the gym or in the living room when there's tons of noise and I just want to chill but my Bose NC buds are definitely superior from an ANC standpoint


----------



## Luke Skywalker

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Knowing is half the battle. I've done way too many receipt inspections in my career; it's translated to me verifying I get all my pack-ins
> 
> I can get the stock tips, SpinFit CP360, Final TWS, and now the E-Pro in without an issue. It's the foamies/standard IEM tips that tend to cause trouble for me.
> 
> ...


Hey do you have any other Tidal/Qobuz playlists to share?  I still listen to that one you gave me all the time dude


----------



## Luke Skywalker

bronco1015 said:


> Hmm.. I've been playing with eq so much I had to go back to default and listen for a while. On orchestral as well as jazz, when bass isn't in the way they both really shine. Trumpets have that crisp bight / sizzle, and Trombones have that balance of mellow and pop. They both get your attention. Even a Trumpet with a plunger sounded pretty realistic. i've been trying to find a tuning that showcases this potential that is still audible in default mode. Honestly a complete facelift for bass and smoothing it out would do wonders for these.


Do you have a playlist you could share?  I love classical and Jazz but never thought to listen to orchestral or look for specific trumpet/trombone tracks


----------



## Luke Skywalker

michsu said:


> Unfortunately, I ordered it on Amazon yesterday and is coming Friday. Let’s see what happens. How is the microphone call quality on the KEFs or NFPs? I need a pair to do zoom calls or phone calls too during the day. Thanks.


I use my KEFs for work and personal calls all the time and everyone says it sounds great.  Iphone 12 Pro Max


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

jsmiller58 said:


> I.  Really.  Don’t.  Need.  This.
> 
> It is already in the cart.  Someone, please help me.


PM me with some audition material and how you think it should sound. I don't mind being brutally honest.


Luke Skywalker said:


> Hey do you have any other Tidal/Qobuz playlists to share?  I still listen to that one you gave me all the time dude


Sure do, bud, but I ditched Tidal so only the Qobuz and Spotify ones are left. PM me and I'll hook it up. Probably spam enough links in this thread to have a target on my back.

When CanJam starts back up, I might need a bodyguard...


----------



## senorbroom

M


Canabuc said:


> Anyone see there is a new budget Sennheisers CX wireless?
> 
> Seems to be an update of the cx400. Longer battery life ipx4 rating not sure what else.
> 
> https://www.thesource.ca/en-ca/audi...-noise-cancelling-earbuds---black/p/108094551


Interesting. I almost bought the CX400 a couple of weeks ago due to them being half price. Looks like they were clearing stock. I’ll be interested whether these have active noise cancelling.

I’ve sold my Galaxy Buds Pro and plan on waiting for reviews to come in over these upcoming releases:

Samsung Galaxy Buds 2
Sennheiser CX
Sony WF-1000XM4
Xiaomi Flipbuds Pro
JBL Tour Pro+


----------



## TK33

Luke Skywalker said:


> I use my KEFs for work and personal calls all the time and everyone says it sounds great.  Iphone 12 Pro Max


So the KEFs are good for calls huh? If only it had aptX I would get them in a heartbeat.

PI7s don't switch sides seamlessly (if master is put back in the case then both buds disconnect and have to reconnect).  This is not ideal for long calls/Zoom meetings where I like to rotate ears every so often to give them a break.  Love them for SQ but the search may continue. Think I got spoiled by just how well the Galaxy Buds Live work for calls (whichever side I use or dont use or switch around...they just work).  Still looking for that perfect TWS with good call, functionality and SQ...


----------



## Darkestred (May 14, 2021)

I have a love hate with Adv.  They were my first dive into the mid-fi and my first custom.  Looking back wasn't quite the best IEM to get for my tastes (M5-1DD).  I was real interested in getting the TWS version with the first iteration.  I did at one point have the model x and those were a pretty damn nice TWS offering but didnt fit in my ears.

Side tracking real quick.  I had the MT's in my ears and not by choice.  I used them to make a quick call and forgot they were in my ears.  Walked a dog and they were starting to come out.  Couldn't get to them.  One fell out.  Hit the concrete...back to that in a second.  Managed to drop the other side when i was collecting myself.  Both bounced a few times which was rather funny even though i was slightly annoyed.  That rubber that surrounds the MT for the fin - i am not sure if that is by design but expecting a busted MT and being pleasantly surprised by just the rubber being marred.  Not bad.

And because of this situation i am slightly intrigued by the new iteration of the m5.  I did get the email about them, too.  Oh the irony.  Is this destiny calling?


----------



## miserybeforethemusic (May 14, 2021)

Darkestred said:


> I have a love hate with Adv.  They were my first dive into the mid-fi and my first custom.  Looking back wasn't quite the best IEM to get for my tastes (M5-1DD).  I was real interested in getting the TWS version with the first iteration.  I did at one point have the model x and those were a pretty damn nice TWS offering but didnt fit in my ears.
> 
> Side tracking real quick.  I had the MT's in my ears and not by choice.  I used them to make a quick call and forgot they were in my ears.  Walked a dog and they were starting to come out.  Couldn't get to them.  One fell out.  Hit the concrete...back to that in a second.  Managed to drop the other side when i was collecting myself.  Both bounced a few times which was rather funny even though i was slightly annoyed.  That rubber that surrounds the MT for the fin - i am not sure if that is by design but expecting a busted MT and being pleasantly surprised by just the rubber being marred.  Not bad.
> 
> And because of this situation i am slightly intrigued by the new iteration of the m5.  I did get the email about them, too.  Oh the irony.  Is this destiny calling?


In a sense. These have quirks. I've reached out to ADV to see how they respond to them. They blew away the initial audition, but as all new relationships go, the honeymoon period is finite.

I have no intention of sparking a flavor of the week with these. Their SQ is certainly on another level. Have way too many questions about their practical use at the moment.

For starters, these are straight aptX. Not aptX TWS+. aptX. So far, they don't hand off signal very well when swapping ears in the case. May be a minor quib, but has major impact if your listening habits rely on this working properly. On more than one occasion already, I've had to plunk both buds back in, wait a few seconds, and remove one to get audio to properly play through.


----------



## Darkestred

miserybeforethemusic said:


> In a sense. These have quirks. I've reached out to ADV to see how they respond to them. They blew away the initial audition, but as all new relationships go, the honeymoon period is finite.
> 
> I have no intention of sparking a flavor of the week with these. Their SQ is certainly on another level. Have way too many questions about their practical use at the moment.
> 
> For starters, these are straight aptX. Not aptX TWS+. aptX. So far, they don't hand off signal very well when swapping ears in the case. May be a minor quib, but has major impact if your listening habits rely on this working properly. On more than one occasion already, I've had to plunk both buds back in, wait a few seconds, and remove one to get audio to properly play through.




and after reading this i do recall have the same issues with the X.  Thank you for that.  Never again.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

Darkestred said:


> and after reading this i do recall have the same issues with the X.  Thank you for that.  Never again.


I'm giving them the benefit of the doubt and have reached out via email to give them a chance to respond. Until then, I intend to reserve judgment.


----------



## bronco1015

TK33 said:


> Finally got the PI7.  AptX HD only seems to work for certain devices based on discussions I have seen so far.  I can confirm that it currently defaults to aptX adaptive on the V60 and OnePlus 8T (see screenshots attached).  AptX HD is not available as an option on either phone.  Very disappointing.
> 
> I also tried connecting it to my Node 2i and it connects via aptX (not aptX HD).  My Qudelix 5K and Shure BT2 never had problems connecting via aptX HD with the Node 2i.  Seems to be an issue with the PI7.  Hopefully B&W can fix via firmware update


Thanks for the update, that sucks. Hopefully they do a swap.


----------



## bronco1015

Luke Skywalker said:


> Do you have a playlist you could share?  I love classical and Jazz but never thought to listen to orchestral or look for specific trumpet/trombone tracks


The music I refer to in this post was local files, but I do have some playlists in Amazon music HD I could share, don't have any in Spotify but could create one if you don't have Amazon music HD.


----------



## Jaunty

Tstorey said:


> Mine arrive Monday apparently and I’m now even more excited to get my hands (ears?) on them. I’ve also got the Jabra 65ts mainly for exercising in now and I find them OK (compared to my CIEMs of course) for general listening and the convenience is there too.



MW07 Plus Update - Oh dear. Perhaps I was too optimistic.  1 1/2 hour walk on a route with no issues on other TWS buds. Suffered infrequent random but regular drop outs. iPhone XR in a lightweight jacket - front left and right pockets at belt level, and holding/moving phone in hand, all experienced it. In an open air park environment with no other devices close, and on a not very busy U.K. high street. Doesn’t bode well for the City of London at rush hour post covid.

Will try a few more walks whilst I’m in the return period, but can’t see it magically improving sadly. Bummer.


----------



## mainguy

Jaunty said:


> MW07 Plus Update - Oh dear. Perhaps I was too optimistic.  1 1/2 hour walk on a route with no issues on other TWS buds. Suffered infrequent random but regular drop outs. iPhone XR in a lightweight jacket - front left and right pockets at belt level, and holding/moving phone in hand, all experienced it. In an open air park environment with no other devices close, and on a not very busy U.K. high street. Doesn’t bode well for the City of London at rush hour post covid.
> 
> Will try a few more walks whilst I’m in the return period, but can’t see it magically improving sadly. Bummer.


Sounds faulty to me, i dont think i had a single dropout with them and `i used them in the city of london tons, jogging, etc. iphone xs max


----------



## W1ll1eTheP1mp

Hi guys! Im about to buy myself a TWS set, but its isnt easy to choose one.. I will NOT be spending 3-400 usd on a new TWS. Im looking for max 200 new.  I also use LG V40 with Android 10.
Does someone have experience with:

* Panasonic RZ-S500? Seems like a very good deal at 99 usd and it got full pot at "What HiFi". 
* Moondrop Sparks? They look stunningly good! And the price is very good.
*Anker soundcore liberty air 2 (with or without pro) or other Anker TWS? 
*Jabra elite (active)75T?
* LG Tonefree FN6/7 series? They seems very interesting since they are tunes by Meridian and for what i can understand they have some form of spatial audio? (Im fan of spatial audio, as long is done right). 

Its important for me that it can be connected to 2 phones at the same time and that the micro Phone is decent( Teams meetings at work). Stable connectivity and decent soundquality. Its not gonna be my critical listening buds at all. Just buds for work, podcast and music when jogging/Walking 

 Since i use LGV40, i dont want Airpods og galaxy buds. This is because it seems that i cant use all the features they have since i dont have IPhone or Samsung. 

Thanks!


----------



## tiagopinto

TheOnlyDocc said:


> @tiagopinto
> At the moment we have a tax free threshold of ~26€. Every Package with value below this is tax free and gets delivered to your home address without any additional cost.  At 01.07.2021 this will change. From that date on every package with a value above 5,20€ will cost tax. And here in Germany you have 2 choices.
> 1. You can pay the tax at the customs office. But you have to drive to the office for each package (for me ~20km forth and 20km back) and most of the time wait 1h and more to get the package.
> 2. You can allow DHL to do it for you (then you can pay when the package is delivered to your home address). But this will cost extra fees. If the custom declaration for the package is complete and everything is correct you only have to pay 6€ ontop of the 19% tax (DHL takes this money becuase they pay the tax in advance and this is the fee for it). If DHL has to handle the custom papers because it is not filled in correctly from the sender they take another 28,50€ for doing it.
> ...



Thank you very much for the thorough explanation. That’s what happens already with whatever comes from the US. Except that VAT taxes in Portugal are 23% (instead of Germany’s 19%, that’s because Portugal has so much better wages than Germany... sorry, sad sarcasm) but yes, Europe is protecting itself more and more trade-wise. But it also has to be able to provide for alternatives on products for consumers “internally” and I don’t think the EU market is anywhere near that. So, it’s just more tax money taken from Europeans and at the same time it’s Europe protecting itself from massive Chinese trade control. The positives will outweigh the negatives in the long run, or so I hope, but meanwhile the consumer is paying for the eventual change. 

Sorry for the longer off-topic but I believe this may be of interest to people here. Cheers.


----------



## Jaunty

mainguy said:


> Sounds faulty to me, i dont think i had a single dropout with them and `i used them in the city of london tons, jogging, etc. iphone xs max


Oh that’s great to hear! Will see what M&D say.


----------



## bronco1015

W1ll1eTheP1mp said:


> Hi guys! Im about to buy myself a TWS set, but its isnt easy to choose one.. I will NOT be spending 3-400 usd on a new TWS. Im looking for max 200 new.  I also use LG V40 with Android 10.
> Does someone have experience with:
> 
> * Panasonic RZ-S500? Seems like a very good deal at 99 usd and it got full pot at "What HiFi".
> ...


the Tone free FN7 have decent ANC, but the sound was just odd to me. I can't remember enough to go in to detail but i quickly traded them. especially since you mention these will be for out and about, I'd recommend the 75T. Decent SQ that's customizeable, multipoint, good call quality, ambient, they call it hearthrough, ANC after an update, a decent IP rating, I used to swim with a pair of 65T non active and never had an issue, someone else has as well and they've posted about it but can't remember whom. I miss the gym and swimming. Anyway, back on topic, 75T. FWIW, I use both a V40 on Android 10 and a V60 on Android 11.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

W1ll1eTheP1mp said:


> Hi guys! Im about to buy myself a TWS set, but its isnt easy to choose one.. I will NOT be spending 3-400 usd on a new TWS. Im looking for max 200 new.  I also use LG V40 with Android 10.
> Does someone have experience with:
> 
> * Panasonic RZ-S500? Seems like a very good deal at 99 usd and it got full pot at "What HiFi".
> ...


You described the Jabra Elite Active 75t. Only pair in my stable (aside from the 85t) that supports multipoint and doesn't cost an arm and leg.

Man, taking a risk on that pair was such a good idea.

The RZ-500 is a lower-end Technics AZ70W. Great for acoustic/live stuff, but could potentially have the Technics' parasitic drain issue with the battery. Just don't lean on What.Hifi's recommendation. They have steered me wrong so many times (cough Sennheiser cough).

The Sparks are brand new; I've heard they're very fun-tuned, but the shell size gives me pause. I'd only get them in black. Moondrop's VDSF tuning is usually a slam dunk for the average listen. Somewhat Harmon-like, but without the exaggerated bass. The app they seem to be developing sounds like a knockout.

The Liberty 2 Pro seems to be the Soundcore to get. I have the Air 2 Pro and it's okay, but unless you need something with stems, I'd honestly pass. SpinFit tips with them are a MUST. The app is phenomenal, though.

Of your list, I would personally get the Jabra EA75t. Best deal if the bunch, especially when you buy the refurb on fleabay from Jabra's official store. They pair amazingly well with both the Final TWS and EPro TW00 tips. Most people will appreciate their fun tuning, but they are responsive enough to EQ that you can tame some of that punchiness out. Take the savings and get one of Jabra's Link 380 dongles for when you need to run Teams on the computer as well; they do make a variant specific for Teams compatibility.

Feel free to ask any more questions about the choices mentioned.

Happy hunting!


----------



## Caipirina

W1ll1eTheP1mp said:


> Hi guys! Im about to buy myself a TWS set, but its isnt easy to choose one.. I will NOT be spending 3-400 usd on a new TWS. Im looking for max 200 new.  I also use LG V40 with Android 10.
> Does someone have experience with:
> 
> * Panasonic RZ-S500? Seems like a very good deal at 99 usd and it got full pot at "What HiFi".
> ...


i think the Jabra is the only one in your list that does multi connections. and now also can be upgraded to ANC ... 

The panasonics are nice at that price, but I do experience battery drain like described for the Technics .. but sound and ANC are top and 99usd is a great price


----------



## Tommy C

Jabra is very underrated, not known for being a brand geared to audiophiles per se but they really stepped their game up in recent years.
Personally my experience with them has been great. Never any issues, they are super reliable and sound good regardless.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

*ADV Update #1*

Day 1 of testing is completed with a mixed bag. I will lead off, as I stated yesterday, that I have outstanding questions for ADV and am giving them a chance to respond before I mention them here. Some are engineering-level questions, so I am not expecting a rapid-fire response over the weekend. If something I'm having concerns with falls under that scope, I will also include the word (DISCLAIMER) in that statement to indicate as such.

From purely a listener's standpoint, these are jaw-droppers for those who may appreciate the Melomania Touch, but want just a little less bleed into the mids. Granted, updated MT tunings have significantly helped with this, but the M5 simply digs deeper, with more authority, and doesn't bloat over. Midrange detail is fantastic and I have to imagine this is the kind of treatment Nuarl lovers have been privileged to experience all along.

Things take a pretty heavy departure in practicality. Here's why:

(DISCLAIMER) These shells, while 3d printed and positively gorgeous, are some of the most slippery buggers around. There are clear detents on each IEM where the user is expected to grab when you remove the bud from the case, but my normal-size hands have a very difficult time removing them. I did suggest to ADV that, since these are 3D printed anyway, they explore texturing these contact surfaces just a little bit to improve grip.
Related to the above, ADV has gone the route of "best approximation of the average ear" when it comes to overall shape; these may sit perfectly in your concha or they may cause endless grief. I fell asleep with mine in last night, fwiw. Luckily, ADV has a plethora of included tips, including "Type A," "Type B," and some verrrry small foam tips. The only difference I can tell between the two types are loft and width, which should be a boon for people who want to dial that fit in just right. Nozzle length seems unchanged. I will need a lot of time to swap between to see if there's any sonic difference, but currently I can detect none.
(DISCLAIMER) No app and, therefore, no support for firmware updates that I can see. This was bullet point #1 in my email to ADV as I know that's going to be a dealbreaker for a lot of people.
These do not seem to support the TWS+ standard, meaning communication is piggybacked from one bud to the next. This could potentially explain why I can't simply pull the second bud from the case and insert the first one while expecting music to continue. This is a TWS standard issue, not ADV's. I don't think it's fair to put that on them
(DISCLAIMER) Limited control scheme. As there is no dedicated app and (from what I can see no tap gesture for volume control), those who rely on independent volume should look elsewhere. If ADV's response proves that claim as incorrect, I will retract this statement. I know some of you depend on independent volume control, so I am being fully transparent in saying that I don't see it possible here
So it's currently a mixed bag. These are so pretty and this is a pair you wouldn't mind showing off to your non-tech friends. They'll even think they sound amazing. I wish I could say just buy and wait for some firmware fixes, but since I don't see how that's managed at the moment, I can't.

Hype train has not left the station. Casey Jones has no speed to watch for whatsoever, but if you can handle all of the issues I mentioned above and just want a no-BS pair that leans on the more fun side of neutral without losing its technicalities, these are priced exactly where they should be.


----------



## SharkSkin

W1ll1eTheP1mp said:


> Hi guys! Im about to buy myself a TWS set, but its isnt easy to choose one.. I will NOT be spending 3-400 usd on a new TWS. Im looking for max 200 new.  I also use LG V40 with Android 10.
> Does someone have experience with:
> 
> * Panasonic RZ-S500? Seems like a very good deal at 99 usd and it got full pot at "What HiFi".
> ...


I've got the FN6. Out of the box the tuning is weird as bronco1015 said of the FN7. Its completely devoid of bass. No rumble, no impact, not even a bit of punch. And I'm not even a huge basshead. What I will say is that it does at least respond well to EQ, so I decided to keep them and still use them semi-frequently. Oh and in so far as spatial audio, I'm not sure that's really what it is. It has an immersive mode that makes it seem like it has a wider soundstage, but its not what I would consider to be spatial audio.

In so far as Anker TWS, I've got the Liberty Pro 2 and the Life A2 ANC. Pretty similar tuning in that they are bass heavy, with the LP2 having better highs in its out of the box tuning. I find the LP2 responds alright to EQing and I haven't really done much EQing with the Life A2 ANC.


----------



## jsmiller58

All the chatter about the Jabra 75t brings to mind a question - how do they compare to the 85t?  I have seen some nice reviews about SQ, ANC, and call quality.  Is the 85t a step up?  The biggest worry I have is how good a seal these will make and how stable in the ear they will be... Even if something stays in the ear, it bothers me if it “feels” like it is coming out...


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

jsmiller58 said:


> All the chatter about the Jabra 75t brings to mind a question - how do they compare to the 85t?  I have seen some nice reviews about SQ, ANC, and call quality.  Is the 85t a step up?  The biggest worry I have is how good a seal these will make and how stable in the ear they will be... Even if something stays in the ear, it bothers me if it “feels” like it is coming out...


Not in SQ. The 85t are very boring, and not in a neutral sense. I find they don't have the technicalities to back up the ease of listening.

They're super comfortable, though. Seal is different as the enclosure is vented, so you don't get that same feeling of pressure in your ears as you would normally. They're straight-up all-day comfortable.

Honestly, the 85t only makes sense to me when it's massively marked down. They're a great pair, but even better below $150. I'd still but the EA75t.


----------



## zeebee45

Does anyone have thoughts on the Earsonic Aero tws buds? I've only seen a few reviews and am not comfortable spending such a large amount on a set without seeing more reviews and personal experiences. https://www.earsonics.com/in-ear-monitors/en/aero/# 

I was also considering the Noble Falcon Pros but have seen mixed feedback on them having some harshness. 

I purchased my first TWS paid last week, the Soundpeats TrueAir2 which are great except they fall out of my ears and are harder to hear when commuting via the subway.

Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

zeebee45 said:


> Does anyone have thoughts on the Earsonic Aero tws buds? I've only seen a few reviews and am not comfortable spending such a large amount on a set without seeing more reviews and personal experiences. https://www.earsonics.com/in-ear-monitors/en/aero/#
> 
> I was also considering the Noble Falcon Pros but have seen mixed feedback on them having some harshness.
> 
> ...


I don't find the NFP harsh, but the in-app EQ is easy enough to use and dropping the 3k band by a couple notches should help with that pinna excitation. Earsonics makes a fantastic product and I believe @erockg has a set of their TWS, but might be mistaken.


----------



## jsmiller58

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Not in SQ. The 85t are very boring, and not in a neutral sense. I find they don't have the technicalities to back up the ease of listening.
> 
> They're super comfortable, though. Seal is different as the enclosure is vented, so you don't get that same feeling of pressure in your ears as you would normally. They're straight-up all-day comfortable.
> 
> Honestly, the 85t only makes sense to me when it's massively marked down. They're a great pair, but even better below $150. I'd still but the EA75t.


That is extremely appreciated!  Saves me both money and frustration!!

I am really just beginning my TWS journey.  I have something like 11 over ear headphones and somewhere over 20 wired IEMs.  As to TWS, so far, though, only the Soundcore Liberty Pro 2, Soundcore A2 NC, and the Amazon Echo Buds v2.  Rather than the try anything approach I used for headphones and IEMs I think I will be more selective with TWS...  but really itching to get something really good...


----------



## zeebee45

miserybeforethemusic said:


> I don't find the NFP harsh, but the in-app EQ is easy enough to use and dropping the 3k band by a couple notches should help with that pinna excitation. Earsonics makes a fantastic product and I believe @erockg has a set of their TWS, but might be mistaken.


Thank you!! So greatly appreciated; if you were to pick between the Noble and Earsonics for long listening sessions as well as business calls, which would you personally go with?


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

zeebee45 said:


> Thank you!! So greatly appreciated; if you were to pick between the Noble and Earsonics for long listening sessions as well as business calls, which would you personally go with?


I'd vouch for the Noble. Can't say anything about the Earsonics outside of what I've read from other peoples' accounts. Plenty comfortable and nobody claims over the phone that they can't make out what I'm saying.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

jsmiller58 said:


> That is extremely appreciated!  Saves me both money and frustration!!
> 
> I am really just beginning my TWS journey.  I have something like 11 over ear headphones and somewhere over 20 wired IEMs.  As to TWS, so far, though, only the Soundcore Liberty Pro 2, Soundcore A2 NC, and the Amazon Echo Buds v2.  Rather than the try anything approach I used for headphones and IEMs I think I will be more selective with TWS...  but really itching to get something really good...


What wired IEMs do you tend to reach for more and what do you like about them?


----------



## jsmiller58

miserybeforethemusic said:


> What wired IEMs do you tend to reach for more and what do you like about them?


I would say I enjoy the Fearless S8F, TSMR-3 Pro (1-2-3 switch settings on), and LZ A7 (black filter) the most - slightly warmer sounding sets with good solid mids, elevated bass, and sparkly but not overly emphasized treble.  I seem to be sensitive to sound around 5KHz, which can make some IEMs very shouty.  But on the other end of the spectrum I do occasionally enjoy the Kanas Pro and Thieaudio L4 which also have good bass but are a bit brighter, but only when seeking something different.  I actually spend more time with the Shure SE215 but that is because they are my knock around set I use for working out.  They literally seem to be able to stand up to any abuse.  I went through a phase where I exclusively used IMR earphones but I tired of the recessed treble.


----------



## W1ll1eTheP1mp

bronco1015 said:


> the Tone free FN7 have decent ANC, but the sound was just odd to me. I can't remember enough to go in to detail but i quickly traded them. especially since you mention these will be for out and about, I'd recommend the 75T. Decent SQ that's customizeable, multipoint, good call quality, ambient, they call it hearthrough, ANC after an update, a decent IP rating, I used to swim with a pair of 65T non active and never had an issue, someone else has as well and they've posted about it but can't remember whom. I miss the gym and swimming. Anyway, back on topic, 75T. FWIW, I use both a V40 on Android 10 and a V60 on Android 11.


Thanks for answering🙂 Jabra Elite active cost 200usd new in my country (Norway). Alot of them for sale here. Seen the just Elite  version of 75t for 90 usd used. But there are ALOT of fakes in secondhand market due to wish.com.

If you could swim with a non active model, is the active version needed for me if the ip rating is just the difference? 


miserybeforethemusic said:


> You described the Jabra Elite Active 75t. Only pair in my stable (aside from the 85t) that supports multipoint and doesn't cost an arm and leg.
> 
> Man, taking a risk on that pair was such a good idea.
> 
> ...


The Moondrop Sparks seems pretty good. Especially if the app turns out well😃 Do you know when the release date for the app is? Hasnt the Sparks been out since January in the East? 
I can also get a Bose soundsport for 50 usd used. But the issue buying secondhand is also about the battery. The owner claimes they are as new batterywise, even if he has used them 2 hrs every day for 2 years(commuting). 

So buying new is tempting if the battery on TWS IEMs get weak pretty fast. Read that Airpods are worn out after 2 years. 

The Black Moondrop Sparks looks quite nice and funny! 



Caipirina said:


> i think the Jabra is the only one in your list that does multi connections. and now also can be upgraded to ANC ...
> 
> The panasonics are nice at that price, but I do experience battery drain like described for the Technics .. but sound and ANC are top and 99usd is a great price


Well, i guess the Panasonics are ruled out then. How big as a issue is the drainage? Does the battery get worned out fast?


----------



## bronco1015

W1ll1eTheP1mp said:


> Thanks for answering🙂 Jabra Elite active cost 200usd new in my country (Norway). Alot of them for sale here. Seen the just Elite  version of 75t for 90 usd used. But there are ALOT of fakes in secondhand market due to wish.com.
> 
> If you could swim with a non active model, is the active version needed for me if the ip rating is just the difference?
> 
> ...


I remember someone else posting about fake 75T's last year


----------



## erockg

miserybeforethemusic said:


> I don't find the NFP harsh, but the in-app EQ is easy enough to use and dropping the 3k band by a couple notches should help with that pinna excitation. Earsonics makes a fantastic product and I believe @erockg has a set of their TWS, but might be mistaken.


Not me.  I did have the KLH, but returned then because the NFPs are far superior.


----------



## samandhi (May 15, 2021)

jsmiller58 said:


> I would say I enjoy the Fearless S8F, TSMR-3 Pro (1-2-3 switch settings on), and LZ A7 (black filter) the most - slightly warmer sounding sets with good solid mids, elevated bass, and sparkly but not overly emphasized treble.  I seem to be sensitive to sound around 5KHz, which can make some IEMs very shouty.  But on the other end of the spectrum I do occasionally enjoy the Kanas Pro and Thieaudio L4 which also have good bass but are a bit brighter, but only when seeking something different.  I actually spend more time with the Shure SE215 but that is because they are my knock around set I use for working out.  They literally seem to be able to stand up to any abuse.  I went through a phase where I exclusively used IMR earphones but I tired of the recessed treble.


From the gear you are listing, I think you would enjoy the MT (Melomania Touch) for the LZ A7 type of sound, or the Nuarl N6Pro for the detail retrieval (IMO). The MT have the most boosted bass that I have heard that doesn't bleed into any other frequencies, and the treble area is sparkly but not tizzy or thin.

The N6Pro are pretty neutral, but have some really airy treble. They CAN be EQ'ed decently to add some bass for more excitement so can be a pretty good all-rounder.

BTW! I am also sensitive to somewhere between 2k and 5k, so I know what you mean. It seems that more and more manufacturers are using this area to give the illusion of airy(ness)....


----------



## The Librarian

So, I would like to hear from someone a comparison between the Devialet Gemini and Bowers & Wilkins pi7. I ordered the PI7s and returned them.  I just could not justify the price for the short battery life. A lot of true wireless earbuds from high-end players like ( Sennheiser (Momentum TW2, Master and Dynamic (MW08s), have released earbuds with longer battery life. I was impressed with the sound quality of the PI7s even with poor audio sources. However, I heard nothing but great things about the Devialet Gemini's sound. They just needed to get their act together with regard to the software issues. Lastly, I know they got pulled from the market and are being released later this month. One reviewer said it was overkill to own both sets. What are the thoughts from this group?


----------



## tma6

I


miserybeforethemusic said:


> Not in SQ. The 85t are very boring, and not in a neutral sense. I find they don't have the technicalities to back up the ease of listening.
> 
> They're super comfortable, though. Seal is different as the enclosure is vented, so you don't get that same feeling of pressure in your ears as you would normally. They're straight-up all-day comfortable.
> 
> Honestly, the 85t only makes sense to me when it's massively marked down. They're a great pair, but even better below $150. I'd still but the EA75t.


 I agree w this if you’re going by default tuning Bc the upper mids are very muted out of the box. They can be eq’d to bring out the upper mids tho and if you do that I find the detail retrieval is actually pretty solid for tws.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic (May 15, 2021)

tma6 said:


> I agree w this if you’re going by default tuning Bc the upper mids are very muted out of the box. They can be eq’d to bring out the upper mids tho and if you do that I find the detail retrieval is actually pretty solid for tws.


Interesting. Are you achieving that with Jabra's EQ? I'd be interested to try that out. 100% agree; they're almost muffled with the stock tuning and SoundID (or whatever they call it) didn't help.


jsmiller58 said:


> I would say I enjoy the Fearless S8F, TSMR-3 Pro (1-2-3 switch settings on), and LZ A7 (black filter) the most - slightly warmer sounding sets with good solid mids, elevated bass, and sparkly but not overly emphasized treble.  I seem to be sensitive to sound around 5KHz, which can make some IEMs very shouty.  But on the other end of the spectrum I do occasionally enjoy the Kanas Pro and Thieaudio L4 which also have good bass but are a bit brighter, but only when seeking something different.  I actually spend more time with the Shure SE215 but that is because they are my knock around set I use for working out.  They literally seem to be able to stand up to any abuse.  I went through a phase where I exclusively used IMR earphones but I tired of the recessed treble.


After I say this, I may never be able to even _buy_ another ADV product, let alone review one...

If you're choosing a pair that you will only listen to (that means you don't care about call quality, range, app support, firmware updates, etc), then the ADV would blow you away. I get a wireless listening experience that is almost akin to listening to my home stereo with the subwoofer on (in terms of FR). It has stunning, and I mean _stunning _detail retrieval in the mids while never feeling delicate. There is enough treble to create a convincing stage, but it never hurts, even on bad masters. This pair simply rocks in terms of sound.

My concerns lie where I previously stated; in practical use. I really hope ADV provides a satisfactory answer to my email. That's as much as I'm comfortable saying right now.

The closest match I have to it is the Cambridge Melomania Touch. As @samandhi recommended, they should be a pretty close match to what your ears prefer and the in-app EQ can quite literally be cranked to the max, positive or negative, and not crush the sound quality. It's really impressive.

The MT had a rough start; I bought them simply because I already owned one of their phono stages, was Jonesing for some of the higher-end stuff, and found out they made TWS. I don't think I'd have ever taken their CEO up on that offer to send him any concerns (his email is printed directly on the product box) if I didn't hear some potential in that set. So glad I did. So happy with how much they've improved.

Solid recommendation from me. We are here to help overcome the initial hurdle to enjoying them if you choose to do so.


W1ll1eTheP1mp said:


> Thanks for answering🙂 Jabra Elite active cost 200usd new in my country (Norway). Alot of them for sale here. Seen the just Elite  version of 75t for 90 usd used. But there are ALOT of fakes in secondhand market due to wish.com.
> 
> If you could swim with a non active model, is the active version needed for me if the ip rating is just the difference?
> 
> ...


To start, I sincerely hope you don't intend to go swimming with any of these. Rated or otherwise, that's a very harsh environment to create for your ears. I'd be terrified of water-logging myself.

On the battery drain, it's not an issue at all if they're your only pair or you're using them daily. Where it becomes a problem is when you put them away charged, come back a week later, and find out they're completely drained. I have to think something funky is going on with that Panasonic/Technics firmware that's causing the drain, but it takes a very long time to become a perceived problem unless you're someone like me who already has way too many pairs to rotate through.

I think the Sparks could turn out to be a pretty cool little device. Moondrop has a unique aesthetic and an established reputation in the IEM market for very intelligent tuning. They also make regular rounds through the product threads here, which is always nice to see. What concerns me is their overall size. On the official Moondrop thread, there's a lineup that includes the Spark next to other members of their lineup. They do seem slightly larger than the Kanas Pro, which are already hitting the limits of what my ear shape can handle. For that reason alone, they may not be a wise choice for me.

But I completely agree with you that that they could be an amazing pair for the right person and I applaud Moondrop for taking the risk. I look forward to seeing some impressions here!


----------



## tma6

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Interesting. Are you achieving that with Jabra's EQ? I'd be interested to try that out. 100% agree; they're almost muffled with the stock tuning and SoundID (or whatever they call it) didn't help.
> 
> After I say this, I may never be able to even _buy_ another ADV product, let alone review one...
> 
> ...


Try this, lmk if I’m off on this one


----------



## SharkSkin

The Bowers & Wilkins PI5 is such a frustrating product. Love the sound, the ANC has been great for me, and they fit great. But the connectivity issue just kills the entire experience. I picked mine up at audio46 near Times Square and I kept getting frequent drops. Figured that it was a tough environment for a good bluetooth signal despite having had other TWS work fine there. Get to my neighborhood and I'm still having issues. We're talking about connectivity performance similar to budget TWS from about 2-3 years ago. Get home, and still get a weird clipping when connecting to the app. Do a factory reset and still get the clipping when connecting on the app, but I'm able to listen with no issues for about an hour or two. Fast forward to today and I pull them out to do some listening and I'm getting drops with the phone no more than 3ft (1m) away from me...  I don't know if I should wait for a firmware update or if I should just return them now, ugh.


----------



## TK33 (May 15, 2021)

SharkSkin said:


> The Bowers & Wilkins PI5 is such a frustrating product. Love the sound, the ANC has been great for me, and they fit great. But the connectivity issue just kills the entire experience. I picked mine up at audio46 near Times Square and I kept getting frequent drops. Figured that it was a tough environment for a good bluetooth signal despite having had other TWS work fine there. Get to my neighborhood and I'm still having issues. We're talking about connectivity performance similar to budget TWS from about 2-3 years ago. Get home, and still get a weird clipping when connecting to the app. Do a factory reset and still get the clipping when connecting on the app, but I'm able to listen with no issues for about an hour or two. Fast forward to today and I pull them out to do some listening and I'm getting drops with the phone no more than 3ft (1m) away from me...  I don't know if I should wait for a firmware update or if I should just return them now, ugh.


My PI7 is doing the same thing.  Factory reset fixes temporarily.  I literally had my phone on my desk 1 foot away and it sounded like a badly scratched CD.  Second time in 2 days so will probably request a replacement.


----------



## Caipirina

W1ll1eTheP1mp said:


> Well, i guess the Panasonics are ruled out then. How big as a issue is the drainage? Does the battery get worned out fast?


Actually, I would not have really noticed the drainage if I had not read about it here. what happens (in my case) is if you do not use the buds frequently, after a week or so you might find them drained in a drained case ... so, I basically make sure I charge them before I use them   I have other buds that can retain charge over months.

Not really a deal breaker iMHO ... the ANC  and sound is rather impressive


----------



## cresny

The Librarian said:


> So, I would like to hear from someone a comparison between the Devialet Gemini and Bowers & Wilkins pi7. I ordered the PI7s and returned them.  I just could not justify the price for the short battery life. A lot of true wireless earbuds from high-end players like ( Sennheiser (Momentum TW2, Master and Dynamic (MW08s), have released earbuds with longer battery life. I was impressed with the sound quality of the PI7s even with poor audio sources. However, I heard nothing but great things about the Devialet Gemini's sound. They just needed to get their act together with regard to the software issues. Lastly, I know they got pulled from the market and are being released later this month. One reviewer said it was overkill to own both sets. What are the thoughts from this group?


I can't give you a comparison, but I will confirm that Devialet has fixed the Gemini's battery issues 100%. I also think the new ear tips offer a surprising improvement in fit and seal. For me the core product is excellent and covers all bases. The ANC is very well done, as is transparency mode, and I like that those are simple long-press toggle and that (music) sound remains exactly the same with each while swapping the respective silent and open background. You've read about the sound, but for me what stands out are dynamics and the faithful rendering of instrument timbres. They do not fatigue my ears, even at occasional higher volumes and even after months I still look forward to listening to them.


----------



## CocaCola15 (May 16, 2021)

Sorry to hear that. My experience with the Model X at least was good in terms of them refunding $$$. Honest crew.

In a sense. These have quirks. I've reached out to ADV to see how they respond to them. They blew away the initial audition, but as all new relationships go, the honeymoon period is finite.
In a sense. These have quirks. I've reached out to ADV to see how they respond to them. They blew away the initial audition, but as all new relationships go, the honeymoon period is finite.


miserybeforethemusic said:


> I have no intention of sparking a flavor of the week with these. Their SQ is certainly on another level. Have way too many questions about their practical use at the moment.
> 
> For starters, these are straight aptX. Not aptX TWS+. aptX. So far, they don't hand off signal very well when swapping ears in the case. May be a minor quib, but has major impact if your listening habits rely on this working properly. On more than one occasion already, I've had to plunk both buds back in, wait a few seconds, and remove one to get audio to properly play through.


----------



## CocaCola15 (May 16, 2021)

Sending the Echo Buds II back. Not bad, but fit is finicky and sound just not on par with the two CA phones (Melomania 1+ and Touch), nor the Status Between Pro. I think I’m done for now. Very happy with those three TW phones. Curiosity sated.


----------



## senorbroom

W1ll1eTheP1mp said:


> Hi guys! Im about to buy myself a TWS set, but its isnt easy to choose one.. I will NOT be spending 3-400 usd on a new TWS. Im looking for max 200 new.  I also use LG V40 with Android 10.
> Does someone have experience with:
> 
> * Panasonic RZ-S500? Seems like a very good deal at 99 usd and it got full pot at "What HiFi".
> ...


I’m kind of in the same boat. I’ve had the Jabra 65Ts for years and they’ve been very solid. They have average sound and average battery life but rock solid connectivity, build quality and call quality. I keep looking for an upgrade but very few offer multipoint combined with good sound quality. The 75Ts are meant to offer slightly improved sound but vastly improved comfort. The 85Ts seem to be a step back in the sound quality department unfortunately. 

My only hope is that the new releases from Sony and Samsung will introduce multipoint this year.


----------



## jhwalker

cresny said:


> I can't give you a comparison, but I will confirm that Devialet has fixed the Gemini's battery issues 100%. I also think the new ear tips offer a surprising improvement in fit and seal. For me the core product is excellent and covers all bases. The ANC is very well done, as is transparency mode, and I like that those are simple long-press toggle and that (music) sound remains exactly the same with each while swapping the respective silent and open background. You've read about the sound, but for me what stands out are dynamics and the faithful rendering of instrument timbres. They do not fatigue my ears, even at occasional higher volumes and even after months I still look forward to listening to them.


Agreed - after the firmware update (and the new ear tips), I've very pleased with the Gemini


----------



## jsmiller58

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Interesting. Are you achieving that with Jabra's EQ? I'd be interested to try that out. 100% agree; they're almost muffled with the stock tuning and SoundID (or whatever they call it) didn't help.
> 
> After I say this, I may never be able to even _buy_ another ADV product, let alone review one...
> 
> ...


Thanks!  I am taking yours and @samandhi recommendation and ordering the MT.  Waiting to see how the ADV saga plays out...  I am also thinking about the Devialet Gemini once they come back in stock...


----------



## bronco1015

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Interesting. Are you achieving that with Jabra's EQ? I'd be interested to try that out. 100% agree; they're almost muffled with the stock tuning and SoundID (or whatever they call it) didn't help.
> 
> After I say this, I may never be able to even _buy_ another ADV product, let alone review one...
> 
> ...


I wouldn't have tried these swimming, but I get a killer discount on jabra products through work so I thought i'd put their 2 year waranty claim to the test. The og 65T had a 2 year dust and water waranty. They're the only pair I was willing to try that with. when I did use them, it was a nice change of pace from the aweful gym music and was able to keep the concha and canal dry.


----------



## samandhi

bronco1015 said:


> I wouldn't have tried these swimming, but I get a killer discount on jabra products through work so I thought i'd put their 2 year waranty claim to the test.


I absolutely love it!


----------



## michsu

https://9to5mac.com/2021/05/15/comment-apple-music-hifi-spatial-audio/


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

SharkSkin said:


> The Bowers & Wilkins PI5 is such a frustrating product. Love the sound, the ANC has been great for me, and they fit great. But the connectivity issue just kills the entire experience. I picked mine up at audio46 near Times Square and I kept getting frequent drops. Figured that it was a tough environment for a good bluetooth signal despite having had other TWS work fine there. Get to my neighborhood and I'm still having issues. We're talking about connectivity performance similar to budget TWS from about 2-3 years ago. Get home, and still get a weird clipping when connecting to the app. Do a factory reset and still get the clipping when connecting on the app, but I'm able to listen with no issues for about an hour or two. Fast forward to today and I pull them out to do some listening and I'm getting drops with the phone no more than 3ft (1m) away from me...  I don't know if I should wait for a firmware update or if I should just return them now, ugh.


Sounds pretty similar to signal strength with the M5; maybe it's something about the radios they use. I'll see if I can get some details from ADV to help narrow it down.


Caipirina said:


> Actually, I would not have really noticed the drainage if I had not read about it here. what happens (in my case) is if you do not use the buds frequently, after a week or so you might find them drained in a drained case ... so, I basically make sure I charge them before I use them   I have other buds that can retain charge over months.
> 
> Not really a deal breaker iMHO ... the ANC  and sound is rather impressive


Mirrors my experience exactly. Fwiw, I checked the case after its initial charge a few days ago and the case still has all 3 bars. I've used it for maybe 30 minutes plus the firmware updates.


CocaCola15 said:


> Sorry to hear that. My experience with the Model X at least was good in terms of them refunding $$$. Honest crew.


I hope so. They seem friendly enough, which is why I'm trying to reserve judgment. If these are issues that can be worked through, I only see it helping ADV in the long run, anyway.


jsmiller58 said:


> Thanks!  I am taking yours and @samandhi recommendation and ordering the MT.  Waiting to see how the ADV saga plays out...  I am also thinking about the Devialet Gemini once they come back in stock...


Enjoy the MT first. It's a great pair of TWS that can honestly fit as a daily driver for people now. I still dig mine, even if I think the M5 carries most of the character, but noticably ups the midrange quality.


bronco1015 said:


> I wouldn't have tried these swimming, but I get a killer discount on jabra products through work so I thought i'd put their 2 year waranty claim to the test. The og 65T had a 2 year dust and water waranty. They're the only pair I was willing to try that with. when I did use them, it was a nice change of pace from the aweful gym music and was able to keep the concha and canal dry.


Can't break PRs when they're playing Top40 stuff? Glad the 65t have been so bulletproof. Full props to Jabra for caring about the whole experience. It's honestly refreshing.


----------



## Darkestred

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Sounds pretty similar to signal strength with the M5; maybe it's something about the radios they use. I'll see if I can get some details from ADV to help narrow it down.
> 
> Mirrors my experience exactly. Fwiw, I checked the case after its initial charge a few days ago and the case still has all 3 bars. I've used it for maybe 30 minutes plus the firmware updates.
> 
> ...


Adv will definitely work with you.  I had a very pleasant experience with them when my customs were a little loose and when returning them became damaged (on their end).  They wound up giving me a gift card but that wasn't good enough and then they also took them back and made a new custom for me.  I think they will refund you but dunno if you will be able to change the quality of their product as based on feedback in the telegram channel - they do listen but to what extent is the missing link.


----------



## bronco1015 (May 16, 2021)

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Sounds pretty similar to signal strength with the M5; maybe it's something about the radios they use. I'll see if I can get some details from ADV to help narrow it down.
> 
> Mirrors my experience exactly. Fwiw, I checked the case after its initial charge a few days ago and the case still has all 3 bars. I've used it for maybe 30 minutes plus the firmware updates.
> 
> ...


lol. Sometimes the top40 hits playing is motivation enough to power through a tired morning and get outta there haha.
i've become a big jabra fan as of late. I also use an Evolve 2 85 for work and it's a battery champ. plus being able to blare music and coworkers not hearing it while i'm talking to them is a huge perk. Edit, blaring from a Google Home or other speakers while i'm in a meeting or on a call with them.


----------



## CocaCola15

jsmiller58 said:


> Thanks!  I am taking yours and @samandhi recommendation and ordering the MT.  Waiting to see how the ADV saga plays out...  I am also thinking about the Devialet Gemini once they come back in stock...


Big MT fan. After trying a few tip alternatives, back to the OEM large tips. Fit is everything; you get that right with the MTs, you won’t be disappointed.


----------



## samandhi

CocaCola15 said:


> Big MT fan. After trying a few tip alternatives, back to the OEM large tips. Fit is everything; you get that right with the MTs, you won’t be disappointed.


On that note, keep in mind also that these are not like typical IEMs that insert deep into your ears. They sit more on the outside and just seal up the hole. I think this is the reason that they can be polarizing with a lot of people. I had a heck of a time getting them to fit correctly in the beginning. Once I switched to the Spinfit CP360s, they became very comfortable, and they sealed correctly. 

It is not so much that they didn't fit correctly with the stock tips per se'. It was more that they did seal, but if you smiled, or yawned, or turned your head it would break the seal. This has been fixed with the longer Spinfits. Also keep in mind that you can't just tip roll with these "willy nilly". Regular tips will fit, but they will be too long and will cause the buds to not fit into the case for charging properly. The MT do seem to follow the standard for TWS tips though, so any of those (and a few that are not like the Spinfits) will work. Don't even bother with foams unless you plan on trimming them down.


----------



## bladefd

samandhi said:


> On that note, keep in mind also that these are not like typical IEMs that insert deep into your ears. They sit more on the outside and just seal up the hole. I think this is the reason that they can be polarizing with a lot of people. I had a heck of a time getting them to fit correctly in the beginning. Once I switched to the Spinfit CP360s, they became very comfortable, and they sealed correctly.
> 
> It is not so much that they didn't fit correctly with the stock tips per se'. It was more that they did seal, but if you smiled, or yawned, or turned your head it would break the seal. This has been fixed with the longer Spinfits. Also keep in mind that you can't just tip roll with these "willy nilly". Regular tips will fit, but they will be too long and will cause the buds to not fit into the case for charging properly. The MT do seem to follow the standard for TWS tips though, so any of those (and a few that are not like the Spinfits) will work. Don't even bother with foams unless you plan on trimming them down.


Foam does not typically last as long as silicone either. It ends up costing more in the long run to buy a new pair of foam every 3-5 months. Silicone is easier clean as well.


----------



## DigDub

Has a listen to the lypertek z7. Wasn't impressed. The highs and mids sound compressed, it does connect to my Sony Xperia 5 ii in aptx adaptive though. The buds are pretty big and bulge out quite a bit from the ears. The case is big, I find it unnecessarily long and bulky.

In the same shop though, there was the Shanling mtw 300. Had a listen to it and was impressed. It sounds like a more refined Fiil t1 pro. Has all the controls and supports left or right single bud usage. The sound doesn't down mix into mono when a single ear bud is in use. The case is made out of metal and the buds are comfortable.


----------



## mainguy (May 17, 2021)

SharkSkin said:


> The Bowers & Wilkins PI5 is such a frustrating product. Love the sound, the ANC has been great for me, and they fit great. But the connectivity issue just kills the entire experience. I picked mine up at audio46 near Times Square and I kept getting frequent drops. Figured that it was a tough environment for a good bluetooth signal despite having had other TWS work fine there. Get to my neighborhood and I'm still having issues. We're talking about connectivity performance similar to budget TWS from about 2-3 years ago. Get home, and still get a weird clipping when connecting to the app. Do a factory reset and still get the clipping when connecting on the app, but I'm able to listen with no issues for about an hour or two. Fast forward to today and I pull them out to do some listening and I'm getting drops with the phone no more than 3ft (1m) away from me...  I don't know if I should wait for a firmware update or if I should just return them now, ugh.


This is so strange, I have the PI7 and can walk to the next room in my house and still listen to music. No cutting out, no drops, I've maybe had 40hours of listening time so far. Plenty of time in the busy streets of the city too. Pretty flawless experience, like you, I adore the sound.

As some people are having a seamless experience I can't see it being firmware, it's possible but would be odd. Sounds more like a faulty device.

The only occassional issue I've had is for some reason one bud doesn't play music and I put them back into the case. Weirdly, I get the exact same thing with my airpods pro sometimes.


----------



## Mr.Toad

TK33 said:


> My PI7 is doing the same thing.  Factory reset fixes temporarily.  I literally had my phone on my desk 1 foot away and it sounded like a badly scratched CD.  Second time in 2 days so will probably request a replacement.


My first pair was like that. The replacement has been stable so far.


----------



## TK33

Mr.Toad said:


> My first pair was like that. The replacement has been stable so far.


Waiting for B&W to respond.  I tried the 3.5mm last night with my desktop and it was unusable from 2 feet away.  I am pretty sure mine is defective.


----------



## jant71

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Sounds pretty similar to signal strength with the M5; maybe it's something about the radios they use. I'll see if I can get some details from ADV to help narrow it down.



So, what is the deal here? This is new and improved M5 2nd gen with boosted connectivity. What happened?


----------



## W1ll1eTheP1mp

senorbroom said:


> I’m kind of in the same boat. I’ve had the Jabra 65Ts for years and they’ve been very solid. They have average sound and average battery life but rock solid connectivity, build quality and call quality. I keep looking for an upgrade but very few offer multipoint combined with good sound quality. The 75Ts are meant to offer slightly improved sound but vastly improved comfort. The 85Ts seem to be a step back in the sound quality department unfortunately.
> 
> My only hope is that the new releases from Sony and Samsung will introduce multipoint this year.


Yeah.. Ive read that TWS that has


senorbroom said:


> I’m kind of in the same boat. I’ve had the Jabra 65Ts for years and they’ve been very solid. They have average sound and average battery life but rock solid connectivity, build quality and call quality. I keep looking for an upgrade but very few offer multipoint combined with good sound quality. The 75Ts are meant to offer slightly improved sound but vastly improved comfort. The 85Ts seem to be a step back in the sound quality department unfortunately.
> 
> My only hope is that the new releases from Sony and Samsung will introduce multipoint this year.


Yeah. Weird that tws hasnt been focusing on Multipoint/connect. Especially since it was available in BT4. I found an article that said that the TWS need to support A2DP and HFP/HSP for multipoint to function. Will that says that all TWS that has it support it? Or is it just a requirement to build it upon? https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.soundguys.com/bluetooth-multipoint-explained-28601/amp/


It would be nice with a completely list of devices of which who support Multiconnector and which dont. On both commercial and more uncommon TWS models.

Its a shame that spatial audio on Galaxy bus pro. Only works on Samsung S21. Im a sucker for spatial audio/immersive music as long is done right(but not when critical ly listening). Saw that Apple music announced Lossless and spatial audio(Dolby) today and will be available later on their streaming service. I wonder how good the spatial audio on Airpods and Samsung is.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

jant71 said:


> So, what is the deal here? This is new and improved M5 2nd gen with boosted connectivity. What happened?


Not sure. I disabled Gabeldorsche this morning, so we'll see if the problems persist.


----------



## W1ll1eTheP1mp

Doesnt anyone own the Moondrop Sparks here? The app has releases for Android and i really need to know how the app is😃


----------



## clerkpalmer

Having trouble deciphering Apples “lossless” announcement today. It’s not clear whether and how this will be done wirelessly? Seems to be a lot of confusion.  They say a DAC is required for true lossless which makes me think this is a wired solution? I don’t see anything about improving or replacing AAC for streaming but the information is scant.


----------



## profusion

Any impressions from KZ Z1 PRO sound?


----------



## Spa03

clerkpalmer said:


> Having trouble deciphering Apples “lossless” announcement today. It’s not clear whether and how this will be done wirelessly? Seems to be a lot of confusion.  They say a DAC is required for true lossless which makes me think this is a wired solution? I don’t see anything about improving or replacing AAC for streaming but the information is scant.


I was wondering the same too… Apple use ALAC format. Regardless, lossless format will likely take up around 150M upwards per song hence Bluetooth 5.0 unable to handle?

Funny that I just got my ITB05 to enjoy the wire-free listening but might have to drop back to wired with Q5s again… 

Unless somehow Ikko can introduce some miracle firmware upgrade to allow large file transfer between iPhone & itb05 which shouldn’t be possible - if AirPods not able to support. So to enjoy true lossless will be back to wired route for now it seems


----------



## Slowhand

clerkpalmer said:


> Having trouble deciphering Apples “lossless” announcement today. It’s not clear whether and how this will be done wirelessly? Seems to be a lot of confusion.  They say a DAC is required for true lossless which makes me think this is a wired solution? I don’t see anything about improving or replacing AAC for streaming but the information is scant.



Remains to be seen I guess. For me the main use case would be Airplaying lossless to my home hifi set-up rather than any on the go listening. 

Although I am more interested in the Spotify HiFi offering that is yet to come.


----------



## CocaCola15 (May 17, 2021)

samandhi said:


> On that note, keep in mind also that these are not like typical IEMs that insert deep into your ears. They sit more on the outside and just seal up the hole. I think this is the reason that they can be polarizing with a lot of people. I had a heck of a time getting them to fit correctly in the beginning. Once I switched to the Spinfit CP360s, they became very comfortable, and they sealed correctly.
> 
> It is not so much that they didn't fit correctly with the stock tips per se'. It was more that they did seal, but if you smiled, or yawned, or turned your head it would break the seal. This has been fixed with the longer Spinfits. Also keep in mind that you can't just tip roll with these "willy nilly". Regular tips will fit, but they will be too long and will cause the buds to not fit into the case for charging properly. The MT do seem to follow the standard for TWS tips though, so any of those (and a few that are not like the Spinfits) will work. Don't even bother with foams unless you plan on trimming them down.


Agree re seal, I have to move around the MTs with the OEM tips a bit, but once I get a good seal, I then stop yawning, smiling or turning my head! Kidding, but they don't seem to break the seal for me on the go. I will say the left side is more snug than the right, due to my asymmetrical ears. Not the MTs fault.

I am glad it's working, that's for sure. I sort of like the M1+ and the MTs equally. TBH. That's why I am keeping both.

As for foam tips, a member further down mentioned they don't last. True of most, but somehow, some way CA made (or had made) foam tips for the M1/M1+ that not only deliver the best sound (compared to silicone ones they include), but they are fully washable and the last forever. Worried they would stop selling them, I bought 10 pair from Amazon ($20 total, amazingly cheap) so I would have enough for the long haul. So far, I have been using the same two pair of foam tips since I bought the original M1s a year ago. I swap between them (wear one and clean the other pair). Once cleaned (use hydrogen peroxide), they are like new, unlike Complys, which lose their "spongy-ness" when cleaned, for lack of a better term.

Unfortunately, CA did not make foam tips for the MTs, but I think they would be too dark with foam, while the M1+ are much better with foam.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

Slowhand said:


> Remains to be seen I guess. For me the main use case would be Airplaying lossless to my home hifi set-up rather than any on the go listening.
> 
> Although I am more interested in the Spotify HiFi offering that is yet to come.


That's what I'm thinking as well. Chances are, Apple is going to utilize something similar to Sonos with Wi-Fi tx/rx. Not sure how else they intend to get the throughput.

Got my third set of UE tips (Size 2) in the mail this weekend, but needed to give myself (and my ears) a serious break, so didn't put them on until this morning. Turns out third time's a charm. Dumb as this is going to sound, the instructions work as intended. Don't do what I did on the second round and try bringing in a bite block or reinventing the wheel. UE knew what they were doing; I just wasn't following instructions. Here's what I did differently:

This time around, I spent a lot more time wiggling the buds around to find a secure fit
Instead of pushing in on the buds once I found their sweet spot, I just held them in place (again, per the instructions)
When the instructions told me I could relax, I took my hands off the buds, but kept my jaw relaxed. As I looked into the mirror during this process, I could only chuckle inwardly at how funny I must have looked, but dared not laugh at the risk of messing everything up again
Weirdly enough, the right channel audio did cut out halfway through the process. I had to put the buds back in the case and pull them back out again before I got audio again, but I did get it back.
The end result is significantly better. It's more comfortable, more stable, and that issue I was having with breaking the seal when I'd do things like chew or open my mouth are gone. I'll continue listening to see if there's any signs of the channel imbalance, but going through the back half of my sound test playlist hasn't shown any signs of the bass being weaker on one channel vice the other. Very grateful to UE for giving me one more chance, though I would have been more than happy to pay for a replacement set

Additionally, listened to the ADVs in bed with the foam tips last night. Wasn't a big fan of how they softened up the attack, but I can see how some people would lean towards that sort of sound signature. So far, I think the "Type A" tips (or the ones that have a less bulbous shroud) have worked the best in my ears. Connectivity is still a mixed bag, but I did disable Gabeldorsche and will continue to put them through their paces. Signal drops are very sporadic, but as a general rule of thumb, I cannot leave whatever room my phone is in without having a ton of dropouts. Heck, I can't even make it fully across my living room if I leave my phone at the desk, but there's also a lot of other devices competing for signal.

Still expecting a response from ADV, though, so hopefully they'll be able to shed some light on why this is happening.


----------



## michsu (May 17, 2021)

http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/TheI...upport-apple-musics-lossless-songs-apple-says

well, that’s dumb. I’m trying the 3 month free trial from Deezer HiFi and it sounds way better than Apple Music for the same song.. they seem to amplify and make the song sound louder.


----------



## CocaCola15 (May 17, 2021)

Slowhand said:


> Remains to be seen I guess. For me the main use case would be Airplaying lossless to my home hifi set-up rather than any on the go listening.
> 
> Although I am more interested in the Spotify HiFi offering that is yet to come.





clerkpalmer said:


> Having trouble deciphering Apples “lossless” announcement today. It’s not clear whether and how this will be done wirelessly? Seems to be a lot of confusion.  They say a DAC is required for true lossless which makes me think this is a wired solution? I don’t see anything about improving or replacing AAC for streaming but the information is scant.


Yes it is confusing. The good news is if you are an Amazon Music HD subscriber (which carries a $5 a month add-on to the regular charge for the service), they will now reduce your bill by that $5 charge to compete with Apple, effective immediately. I prepaid for the year on Amazon Music HD on April 1, and upon contact with Amazon via chat, they already refunded the $53 portion of the bill for the HD upgrade. Sweet. On the other hand, I suppose I also am paying a premium for the HD feature, which I am not getting wirelessly. For example, the Eudelix F5 reports that the bitrate is far below the HD level when using BT, more in the 256-320k range. Oh well, it's good for wired listening with phones plugged directly into the LG30 I guess.

https://www.theverge.com/2021/5/17/22440058/amazon-music-hd-price-cut-apple-lossless-audio


----------



## michsu (May 17, 2021)

For those listening on Apple stuff, go to Accessibility and go to the Audio/Visual and change the settings for Headphone Accommodations. I set it to Balanced Tone and put it to Strong. Everything sounds really nice. I only need to turn up the headphones to 1/3 of the volume (with no headphones safety, of course) before it gets really loud. Also, I set Deezer EQ and Apple Music to Acoustic.


----------



## erockg

https://www.macrumors.com/2021/05/17/beats-studio-buds/


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

tma6 said:


> Try this, lmk if I’m off on this one


Started with yours as a reference point and started tweaking based on what my ears were hearing. Haven't done the SoundID stuff yet, but things are a little improved. It's a lot closer in tonality to the FITS now, which is definitely something I can get behind.


I'll keep at it, but not too shabby for a starting point.


----------



## michsu

erockg said:


> https://www.macrumors.com/2021/05/17/beats-studio-buds/


I would bet these maybe these support the new Apple Hifi.


----------



## dj24 (May 17, 2021)

tma6 said:


> Try this, lmk if I’m off on this one





miserybeforethemusic said:


> Started with yours as a reference point and started tweaking based on what my ears were hearing. Haven't done the SoundID stuff yet, but things are a little improved. It's a lot closer in tonality to the FITS now, which is definitely something I can get behind.
> 
> I'll keep at it, but not too shabby for a starting point.



Is this graph for the Jabra Elite Active 75t or the regular 85t?


----------



## tma6

dj24 said:


> Is this graph for the Jabra Elite Active 75t or the regular 85t?


85t


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

dj24 said:


> Is this graph for the Jabra Elite Active 75t or the regular 85t?


85t. I haven't started applying EQ on the Active 75t yet. If I did, I'd probably duck the bass and sub-bass first. Don't think it needs any cleanup from the midrange up; just have to get some of that low frequency energy out of the mix so the details can start coming through.


----------



## dj24

miserybeforethemusic said:


> 85t. I haven't started applying EQ on the Active 75t yet. If I did, I'd probably duck the bass and sub-bass first. Don't think it needs any cleanup from the midrange up; just have to get some of that low frequency energy out of the mix so the details can start coming through.


Yes please post your EQ graph once you get the time to dial it in.  Thanks!


----------



## michsu

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Started with yours as a reference point and started tweaking based on what my ears were hearing. Haven't done the SoundID stuff yet, but things are a little improved. It's a lot closer in tonality to the FITS now, which is definitely something I can get behind.
> 
> I'll keep at it, but not too shabby for a starting point.


That looks like my Deezer EQ (Acoustic), except the middle is a little down =) I'll try yours and see if I like it.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

michsu said:


> That looks like my Deezer EQ (Acoustic), except the middle is a little down =) I'll try yours and see if I like it.


If that one isn't to your liking (too much lower midrange missing), you can give one of these a shot. Collapses when you turn on HearThrough, though:


----------



## miserybeforethemusic (May 17, 2021)

Spent my lunch break tip-rolling on the M5 and have come to the conclusion that, while the foamies are a cool concept, they're just a little too narrow for my ears. In addition to that, I think they softened up the attack a bit too much for my liking. That snap is one of my favorite features of the M5's sound! The flatter tips (I'm assuming they're the "Type A") in large seem to give me the best seal and one I can't break from moving my jaw, no matter how comically large. In terms of comfort and SQ, I have no desire to change anything.

Once I carried the understanding that these do not support TWS+ and, therefore, cannot be hot-swapped in the case, my time with the M5 has been significantly more pleasant. These things are supremely comfortable both on the inner ear and the areas where the bud rests against the outer ear. It's very apparent that ADV spent a good amount of time on figuring out the most universally-ergonomic option and, at least in my ears, they knocked it out of the park. Once they're in, they just don't move (with the large Type A tips, that is) and I wouldn't be in the least bit surprised if you even found yourself just admiring the physical build quality instead of listening to them. They have no seams. No rough edges. Zero. Zilch.





I've also had great luck with call clarity, so at the very least, these do satisfy my three minimum criteria for a set of TWS:

Play media cleanly, clearly, and powerfully
Be comfortable enough for at least a couple hours of continuous listening
Be a suitable replacement for using the handset to make phone calls
Super-high bar, right? When you think of the M5 as an IEM that doesn't need a cable and just happens to have a microphone, its "value" proposition does get better, but these are priced in the same range as a lot of pairs that _do_ carry the features the M5 does not. The limited BT range when compared against something like the UE FITS is unfortunately laughable. I shouldn't be able to go 20 feet over on the same floor, crouch down, and lose signal. I do with the M5, though. If you don't ever travel too far from your phone/device, maybe this won't be as much of a problem, but I did want to provide full transparency.

And, speaking of that, I managed to get a response today from ADV. I've quoted it below, but am more than willing to take screengrabs of the email (with names removed) for anybody via PM upon request:


> Thank you for a very speedy update on the review and the impressions! And yes, we will make sure to credit your name (miserybeforethemusic) if we do use your texts.
> 
> Regarding your questions and comments, I hope you can find my response below helpful.
> 
> ...


So not exactly the sort of answer that I was hoping for, especially with regard to the flat-out "no" when it comes to supporting firmware updates. I do have concerns that, over time, this will become a product lost in time and unable to connect to newer hardware. Factor that in if you decide to purchase.

And this is where I'm going to probably cause a few people to become quite irritated: I still recommend these. Despite all the gripes and complaints I have, they're honestly the rawkin'-est TWS in the stable. They have that bass weight of the Earfun Free Pro, midrange detail of the FITS, and top end of a wired set of IEMs. Tuning is impeccable and I'm willing to say that they're worth it for the tuning alone, as long as you're willing to live with the shortcomings.

_Edit: _I was able to find a link for more foam tips for those interested. They are available in 3 different sizes at ADV's website here.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

One more thing: UE also emailed me. Looks like they're doing quite the sale...


----------



## tinyman392

miserybeforethemusic said:


> One more thing: UE also emailed me. Looks like they're doing quite the sale...


UE always seems to have a sale.  I really want them to put the UERM on sale…. I’d jump on those almost immediately.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

tinyman392 said:


> UE always seems to have a sale.  I really want them to put the UERM on sale…. I’d jump on those almost immediately.


On my short list as well, but I'd have to go for the full experience if I did and get everything done at their HQ.

Interesting that they're selling a couple of the options with BT cables as well...


----------



## tinyman392

miserybeforethemusic said:


> On my short list as well, but I'd have to go for the full experience if I did and get everything done at their HQ.
> 
> Interesting that they're selling a couple of the options with BT cables as well...


I’m planning on getting one of those BT cables for the EVO when that releases (unless Etymotic releases their Etymotion cable alongside it).  I live a little too far from the HQ to have it all done there.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic (May 17, 2021)

tinyman392 said:


> I’m planning on getting one of those BT cables for the EVO when that releases (unless Etymotic releases their Etymotion cable alongside it).  I live a little too far from the HQ to have it all done there.


Didn't Dave say they were tooling one up? Pretty sure I asked a couple weeks ago. If I remember right, it just wouldn't be ready by the EVO's release.


----------



## tinyman392

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Didn't Dave say they were tooling one up? Pretty sure I asked a couple weeks ago. If I remember right, it just wouldn't be ready by the EVO's release.


Yes, they will be releasing one eventually.  And he said it likely wouldn’t be ready for release.  Though the Etymotic Instagram page said preorders would start last week  Hopefully delay means they _might_ (I doubt it) get the cable ready with launch?


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

tinyman392 said:


> Yes, they will be releasing one eventually.  And he said it likely wouldn’t be ready for release.  Though the Etymotic Instagram page said preorders would start last week  Hopefully delay means they _might_ (I doubt it) get the cable ready with launch?


I like the way you think


----------



## Sam L

miserybeforethemusic said:


> 85t. I haven't started applying EQ on the Active 75t yet. If I did, I'd probably duck the bass and sub-bass first. Don't think it needs any cleanup from the midrange up; just have to get some of that low frequency energy out of the mix so the details can start coming through.


Any oratory1990 fans? Here are the wavelet settings for the 85t.

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/goi...e-we-there-yet.861024/page-1807#post-15958906


----------



## Luke Skywalker

guido said:


> for me the UTWS3 is a no-brainer…it simply blows away every other wireless IEMs I have owned, it is not even a close call and for often half the price of the higher end offerings..
> 
> comfort wise I find them excellent and they fit very securely , no problem with spectacles either, way better than the Sony WF that alway felt like they were going to fall out (same story with the Senn MTW)


I wonder how the UTWS3 would sound with my JH Lola's...  I actually bought the JH bluetooth cable but unlike the balanced cable, it doesn't have a way to adjust the bass and it was set to high for my liking


----------



## tinyman392

Luke Skywalker said:


> I wonder how the UTWS3 would sound with my JH Lola's...  I actually bought the JH bluetooth cable but unlike the balanced cable, it doesn't have a way to adjust the bass and it was set to high for my liking


UTWS3 doesn’t have custom EQ BTW, just preset EQs. Their BT neckband has a very good 10-band EQ though.


----------



## tinyman392

I pulled the trigger on a pair of 85t since they were on sale for 180 bucks. Should pick them up later today.


----------



## Slowhand (May 18, 2021)

*





Fresh Spotify leaks. Launching soon I'd imagine.

Source: https://www.reddit.com/r/truespotify/comments/netuuw/i_successfully_opened_the_hifi_menu_by_quickly/


----------



## 100Pipers

Took delivery of the Master & Dynamic MW08 today, judging by the fact that my son (home from uni) keeps having to answer the door to take in my deliveries ) he hates being awake during the day) they have excellent anc. Im now in bass heaven.


----------



## jsmiller58

TWS with LDAC...  progress (at least for Android aficionados)...

https://store.hiby.com/pages/hiby-wh2


----------



## miserybeforethemusic (May 18, 2021)

jsmiller58 said:


> TWS with LDAC...  progress (at least for Android aficionados)...
> 
> https://store.hiby.com/pages/hiby-wh2


And here I am with the WH3 feeling very, very betrayed right now

@Joe Bloggs what gives, bud? Is this a sign that HiBy's done with WH3 development?


----------



## helmutcheese

Just got Edifier tws1 pro today.

So far low volume at 100%  (no headroom and AC/DC Thunderstruck should blow my ears off) so same issues as SoundPeats Sonics as near same spec, I bet they have same battery issues and one side but will die soon (had right side cut out sound wise but controls were still working so was volume beeps, had to put them in their case to fix issue).

Poor sound overall and no way to manually pair to a 2nd pair using the buttons and no way to power on/off with buttons (Sonic does both), do not see these on their site and App does not support them and got warning from ESET about it so removed it once I tried to get it to accept these.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

helmutcheese said:


> Just got Edifier tws1 pro today.
> 
> So far low volume at 100%  (no headroom and AC/DC Thunderstruck should blow my ears off) so same issues as SoundPeats Sonics as near same spec, I bet they have same battery issues and one side but will die soon (had right side cut out sound wise but controls were still working so was volume beeps, had to put them in their case to fix issue).
> 
> Poor sound overall and no way to manually pair to a 2nd pair using the buttons and no way to power on/off with buttons (Sonic does both), do not see these on their site and App does not support them and got warning from ESET about it so removed it once I tried to get it to accept these.


Well glad you were able to get your impressions on 'em. Mine never arrived. Still holding out for a shipping notice from Status, come to think of it.

Does that mean the TWS1 Pro gets returned and it's on to the next one? If so, what are you considering?


----------



## AmericanSpirit (May 18, 2021)

latest KZ TWS: SKS ($29 on aliexpress, $48 on Amazon (rip off))
5.2, nicely balanced harman curve with bass boost. Very good TWS collection for reasonable price. Wow! KZ nailed it!!
Still waiting KZ Z1 Pro (XUN driver 1DD).
I’m more impressed than CCA C10 pro, KZ ZSN PRO X, NiceHCK DB3 which arrived at the same time. It’s the TWS sounding better tuned than those three.





Upon arrival of KZ Z1 Pro, and Moondrop Sparks, I will do a comparison among KZ S1D, Z1Pro, SKS, Moondrop Sparks, and Airpods Pro.

[Update]
Although being a TWS, with proper ear tips, KZ SKS is one of the best tuned out of KZ from my 20+ KZ experience! Wow! KZ nailed it! Not a typical 30095. It sounds Harman-ish W-shape tuning, no big spikes, smooth and bass focused.

I can recall this sound signature as a bit brighter Mangird Tea. This brings me hope for AST, it might actually work! AST uses a bunch of #30019 BAs which SKS uses 1x custom-tuned 30019 +10mm DD.

SKS seemed to have a 3khz pinna gain peaks like the one of those in Moondrop Blessing 2 Dusk or Softears RSV.
If it matches your gain spots, it resonates very well for female vocals/guitar/snare drums.

I thought mid-range specialty was one of CCA's, but KZ seemed is leaning toward mid-range focused rather than typical V-shaped harsh tuning.
SKS has a wide sound stage, like CCA CSN, with bass-rolled Harman-ish with 3khz gain spot hitting tuning. (W-Shaped, warm, bass-rolled wide sound stage)

Honestly, I prefer this tuning over ZAX, it doesn't extend treble and air too much so that the technical weakness of KZ tweeter BA drivers could stay subtle.
Kudos to KZ engineers who tuned SKS.

SKS matches with the thin-skinned bass-boost type of ear tips, like Sony hybrids. I use one of UM's. SKS is generally warm. For $29 on Aliexpress ($48 on Amazon, nah) SKS is a good blind buy even compared to wired IEMs of the range, for someone looking fun and warm-tuned pair of IEM.
Only draw back is "CONEKTAD!!" "PALING" extremely heavy Chinese accent voice guide. I can not tell whether it is saying "Powering" or "Paring".


----------



## helmutcheese (May 18, 2021)

I have been quiet lately as went back to my SoundPeats Neckband as the SoundPeats Sonics one side died in 1st month.

And I tell a lie above as the Sonics right bud is not dead it still controls the music via its button so its the speaker that is dead or not getting sound somehow.

Also they do have manually pairing using the buttons (read the tiny text manual as none online on their site), hold either side for 3 secs, bit iffy as volume is also long press so you may enter pairing by error adjusting volume.

I kickstarted the SoundPeats H1 Premiums and had some issues with one side going quiet and other muddy and now one is permanently quieter so cannot use (many have same issues as myself on both Sonics/H1's), battery claims on both even at lower than 60% volume is a joke.

I then got the SoundPeats T2 ANC, again glitches in that they randomly decide to turn off etc and battery is nowhere near stated even at lower than 60% volume (again many have same issues).

I do not think there is any ideal TWS out there at any price, I have had Sony/Bose/The high end Anker SoundCore models and OneMore models.

I can fall back to my Fiio LC-BT2+ FH3's for indoor.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic (Jun 5, 2021)

Ok here goes...I will don my flame suit and prepare for the ire that this statement is probably going to garner: I'm going to be de-throning the Melomania Touch and replacing it with the ADV M5-TWS (2nd Gen) for my "midrange" recommendation for the SQ-focused consumers out there.

The Melomania Touch is still timing out after an hour of listening with apps like Neutron and UAPP; this happens regardless of the selected BT stack. I thought this was something they removed after the latest firmware update, but I am still encountering it. Such a shame, too, as they're tuned such that you could listen to them for hours if that weren't the case. The ADV will play right up until the battery dies or you happen to walk far enough away for signal to cut out. As soon as you're back in range, they seem to reconnect, but you will have to manually restart whatever track you're listening to.

They're both supremely comfortable, just in different ways. It's practically a coin toss in terms of which I prefer more. If anything, the ADV do protrude a bit more from the ears, but I don't have nearly the same amount of microphone issues as I do with the MT (constantly being asked to repeat things, for example). I can also maintain a more consistent seal with the M5, regardless of tips used.

The tuning...Oh my word, the tuning. Listening to the MT on its own is a completely enjoyable experience, but there are very apparent improvements in the M5's midbass/midrange management and treble extension when compared against the MT. I think the stigma of being "tuned by Harmon" really did a disservice to ADV as people expected something that, well, was tuned exactly to the Harman target. In all honesty, I wish the JBL were tuned more like the _M5 _rather than the other way around. They honestly make up for the JBL's shortcomings, especially on the lower end, and especially in terms of volume output. You shouldn't have any headroom concerns with the M5, but most of us did with the JBL until we added that gain boost in the in-app EQ. The sort of attack you get with the M5 is palpable. It's infectious. It's sorely missing from the MT's more warm, polite representation, and I can't get enough of it.

Even listening to Genesis' stereo mix of "Get 'Em Out By Friday" displays a clear and identifiable stage. Each drum hit is properly captured and defined, right down to the last muted snare roll or cymbal ride. Never does the basswork fall behind in the mix. Everybody gets a chance to shine and It's honestly an impressive listen. Super grateful to @samandhi for making the recommendation and it became the perfect album to use when unwinding for the night. Not even the UE FITS rendered that song as completely as the M5 did; you really do benefit from that improved low end.

So, for all those folks who followed my suggestion to hold off until the initial impressions were done, perhaps it's time to reconsider and just be aware of the M5's limitations. Based on the lack of developer support for firmware, it's probably still a little too soon to invest more in the customs, but good news is the universal feels great as is.

This is Head-Fi after all, so sorry about your wallet


----------



## jsmiller58

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Ok here goes...I will don my flame suit and prepare for the ire that this statement is probably going to garner: I'm going to be de-throning the Melomania Touch and replacing it with the ADV M5-TWS (2nd Gen) for my "midrange" recommendation for the SQ-focused consumers out there.
> 
> The Melomania Touch is still timing out after an hour of listening with apps like Neutron and UAPP; this happens regardless of the selected BT stack. I thought this was something they removed after the latest firmware update, but I am still encountering it. Such a shame, too, as they're tuned such that you could listen to them for hours if that weren't the case. The ADV will play right up until the battery dies or you happen to walk far enough away for signal to cut out. As soon as you're back in range, they seem to reconnect, but you will have to manually restart whatever track you're listening to.
> 
> ...


“sorry about your wallet” - everybody says that, and yet they keep putting the temptation out there...!


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

jsmiller58 said:


> “sorry about your wallet” - everybody says that, and yet they keep putting the temptation out there...!


The more time I spend here, the more I start to think it's because people just don't like keeping secrets when they find the good stuff.

Man, what a roller-coaster ride that review cycle was. Learned a lot about shuttering expectations, though.


----------



## jsmiller58

miserybeforethemusic said:


> The more time I spend here, the more I start to think it's because people just don't like keeping secrets when they find the good stuff.
> 
> Man, what a roller-coaster ride that review cycle was. Learned a lot about shuttering expectations, though.


I have tremend appreciation and respect for those that can and are willing to share their experience with others! But, yeah, my wallet, ouch...


----------



## W1ll1eTheP1mp

Hey guys! After hours and hours of searching and comparing, i ended up with Jabra Elite Active 75T. Bought it second hand, both mint color(gorgeous) and mint condition! I payed 99 usd for it. Only used once, bought april 10th and has reciept😃(cause or warranty and validation of an original product.insane many fakes out there)!


----------



## jsmiller58

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Ok here goes...I will don my flame suit and prepare for the ire that this statement is probably going to garner: I'm going to be de-throning the Melomania Touch and replacing it with the ADV M5-TWS (2nd Gen) for my "midrange" recommendation for the SQ-focused consumers out there.
> 
> The Melomania Touch is still timing out after an hour of listening with apps like Neutron and UAPP; this happens regardless of the selected BT stack. I thought this was something they removed after the latest firmware update, but I am still encountering it. Such a shame, too, as they're tuned such that you could listen to them for hours if that weren't the case. The ADV will play right up until the battery dies or you happen to walk far enough away for signal to cut out. As soon as you're back in range, they seem to reconnect, but you will have to manually restart whatever track you're listening to.
> 
> ...


I was just looking at the M5 TWS review on theheadphonelist.com and I read the following:  

”Clarity and openness are both defining traits of the M5’s presentation and this is likely the most revealing midrange I’ve heard from a TWS earphone yet. That said, I would not consider it perfectly neutral or natural. As both the lower-midrange and upper-bass occupy a neutral quantity, vocals are imbued with accurate body and are neutrally toned. However, as the centre midrange climbs progressively, approaching a prominent 3KHz hump, the presentation is skewed towards the brighter side with enhanced vocal forwardness. As such, this can be considered a vocal-forward earphone despite having some degree of sub-bass emphasis. Conversely, this does operate in accordance with the Harman Curve to compensate for the lack of pinna gain for the in-ear form factor.”  

Does this match your experience as well?  You indicated you have a sensitivity somewhere between 3KHz and 5KHz, so just curious if anything in that range bothered you on the M5-TWS?


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

Yes, it's very consistent, though it's possible the 3k hump he's hearing could be amplified by his ear shape; without talking to the reviewer, I'm not sure I'd know how to characterize that. THL is a fantastic blog, though, and I do tend to agree with Ryan and his ears. Only thing I can't tell from the review body is whether he reviewed the first or second generation of the M5. Also not 100% sure what changed from variant to variant, aside from stronger magnets in the case. I do see that his retail box is white while mine is black and states "M5-TWS (2ND GEN)" in the description up top.

All that's to say there are probably some minor variations in tuning, but I want to avoid any impression of "arguing" with Ryan's impressions. I will give the following caveats, though:

I detect zero noise floor with the M5. They're dead silent to my ears, even while playing quiet passages of music. I usually use the following track to test this:


I haven't heard any complaints on the opposite end of the line for any of my phone calls. Usually my wife is shamelessly honest when that's the case; never once has she said she couldn't understand me
I totally agree with his assertion that they're more "balanced" than they are "neutral." Purists or treble-heads probably need to look elsewhere. The M5 (2nd Gen) has an unapologetically strong bass, but Ryan's dead on about his bass notes. It's honestly impressive how little bleed there is with this pair.
His midrange notes also closely echo mine, though I didn't write down anything as granular as which peaks my ears could detect; they're definitely tuned more towards impact, but never at the expense of some absolutely fantastic resolution
I mean, I could go on and on, but think he covered it well enough. Avoid the "V-shaped" stigma; that word kills just about as many good IEM's reputations as "Harmon-tuned" these days.

Bang on again, @ryanjsoo ! Love your work!


----------



## clerkpalmer

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Ok here goes...I will don my flame suit and prepare for the ire that this statement is probably going to garner: I'm going to be de-throning the Melomania Touch and replacing it with the ADV M5-TWS (2nd Gen) for my "midrange" recommendation for the SQ-focused consumers out there.
> 
> The Melomania Touch is still timing out after an hour of listening with apps like Neutron and UAPP; this happens regardless of the selected BT stack. I thought this was something they removed after the latest firmware update, but I am still encountering it. Such a shame, too, as they're tuned such that you could listen to them for hours if that weren't the case. The ADV will play right up until the battery dies or you happen to walk far enough away for signal to cut out. As soon as you're back in range, they seem to reconnect, but you will have to manually restart whatever track you're listening to.
> 
> ...


How’s the fit? Suitable for a bike ride?


----------



## clerkpalmer

jsmiller58 said:


> TWS with LDAC...  progress (at least for Android aficionados)...
> 
> https://store.hiby.com/pages/hiby-wh2


Very very cool. I wonder why it took so long? Which version to get?


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

clerkpalmer said:


> How’s the fit? Suitable for a bike ride?


Basically locked-in once you figure out which tip works best for your ear, but I'll try to "simulate" a bike ride for your sake. To steal a trick from @Slater I'd suggest just swabbing your ears prior to the bike ride. Should help maintain grip really well, though I never felt like these were loose.

Oh and look what just showed up:



Just as soon as I thought I was done for a bit...


----------



## clerkpalmer

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Basically locked-in once you figure out which tip works best for your ear, but I'll try to "simulate" a bike ride for your sake. To steal a trick from @Slater I'd suggest just swabbing your ears prior to the bike ride. Should help maintain grip really well, though I never felt like these were loose.
> 
> Oh and look what just showed up:
> 
> Just as soon as I thought I was done for a bit...


Thanks. Still looking for a no frills set without ANC to take out on the bike. But I didn’t see anything about waterproofing on advanced website.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

clerkpalmer said:


> Thanks. Still looking for a no frills set without ANC to take out on the bike. But I didn’t see anything about waterproofing on advanced website.


Couldn't find anything in the literature, either. Only visible point of entry I can see is via the microphone. Everything else is sealed up, so my guess is they just didn't want to go through the cost of getting IP certification.

Despite this looking somewhat funky, ohmalawd it's so comfortable.





B2 is a very happy camper at the moment. Has no issue rendering the low end on this track and seems to jive really well with the Auvio wide-bores currently installed:


I may never have to use that stubborn stock wire again. And, yes, the case does close with both sets of IEMs inside. Doesn't even take much effort.


----------



## Cryu

MW07 Plus or Melomania Touch? More concerned by proper fitting and comfort in this case, though I understand that it a pretty personal thing. The prices are the same to me after the inclusion of the MW KD13 50% coupon. How does the SQ match up and were the connectivity issues with the MT's fixed?


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

Cryu said:


> MW07 Plus or Melomania Touch? More concerned by proper fitting and comfort in this case, though I understand that it a pretty personal thing. The prices are the same to me after the inclusion of the MW KD13 50% coupon. How does the SQ match up and were the connectivity issues with the MT's fixed?


Haven't tried the Plus, only the GO, and my experience with it was enough to tell me I'm not the target demo for the M&D sound. If it were my money, I'd go with the MT since it's a known quantity. My connectivity issues were fixed, but they still shut down after an hour of listening if I'm using UAPP/Neutron. It's not fair to fault the manufacturer for compatibility issues with third-party software, though, so I take those as isolated incidents.


----------



## Darkestred

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Haven't tried the Plus, only the GO, and my experience with it was enough to tell me I'm not the target demo for the M&D sound. If it were my money, I'd go with the MT since it's a known quantity. My connectivity issues were fixed, but they still shut down after an hour of listening if I'm using UAPP/Neutron. It's not fair to fault the manufacturer for compatibility issues with third-party software, though, so I take those as isolated incidents.



Did yours shutdown before or after the latest firmware or both?  Mine have been doing this lately or losing bt connection and re-establishing.  This did not happen prior.  Also, phone calls have weird pops now.  The latter could be from my dropping them but not too sure.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

Darkestred said:


> Did yours shutdown before or after the latest firmware or both?  Mine have been doing this lately or losing bt connection and re-establishing.  This did not happen prior.  Also, phone calls have weird pops now.  The latter could be from my dropping them but not too sure.


No noise during calls, but I have been having that timeout issue that the most recent firmware update was supposed to fix. I don't get random dropouts, though. Can practically set my watch to it.

As usual, the Right ear is the culprit, even though both are allegedly running firmware version 1.4.2 (or whatever the most recent one is). Maybe it's time you and I do the ol' Razzle Dazzle Reset. I plan to finish this Tipper album, then finally pry the B2 out of my ears because they sound so flipping good running off the CF01. Not quite DK-3001 Pro clear, but very musical nonetheless.


----------



## Robius

jsmiller58 said:


> TWS with LDAC...  progress (at least for Android aficionados)...
> 
> https://store.hiby.com/pages/hiby-wh2


That's juicy.


----------



## C_Lindbergh

I noticed how Hiby didn't mention anything about the battery life for their upcoming LDAC tws... 😂


----------



## miserybeforethemusic (May 18, 2021)

C_Lindbergh said:


> I noticed how Hiby didn't mention anything about the battery life for their upcoming LDAC tws... 😂


Still blows my mind why they won't just work on development for the WH3. I'm genuinely concerned. that it seems like they're just going to abandon development, rope in a few new customers, and repeat the process.

It's stereotypical Chi-Fi.


Darkestred said:


> Did yours shutdown before or after the latest firmware or both?  Mine have been doing this lately or losing bt connection and re-establishing.  This did not happen prior.  Also, phone calls have weird pops now.  The latter could be from my dropping them but not too sure.


New development...the issue will probably follow whatever bud you pair to your device first. Just did a master reset, then attempted to switch from High Performance to Low Power mode. Right bud works flawlessly now, but the left is causing me endless grief now.

Aka this is something that Cambridge's dev team needs to look into. Going to hard reset and attempt to set up via my backup phone (the Pixel 3a) to see if we have better luck.


----------



## Darkestred

miserybeforethemusic said:


> No noise during calls, but I have been having that timeout issue that the most recent firmware update was supposed to fix. I don't get random dropouts, though. Can practically set my watch to it.
> 
> As usual, the Right ear is the culprit, even though both are allegedly running firmware version 1.4.2 (or whatever the most recent one is). Maybe it's time you and I do the ol' Razzle Dazzle Reset. I plan to finish this Tipper album, then finally pry the B2 out of my ears because they sound so flipping good running off the CF01. Not quite DK-3001 Pro clear, but very musical nonetheless.



Just did it again.  Fingers crossed.  Looking around to see if possible to downgrade.  Because im still on 1.4.2 after factory.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

Darkestred said:


> Just did it again.  Fingers crossed.  Looking around to see if possible to downgrade.  Because im still on 1.4.2 after factory.


I don't think a factory reset wipes the firmware back to stock, which would be _massively _helpful. Just floats on whatever the current version is.

I did manage to properly swap between High-to-Low and then Low-to-High Performance modes via the Pixel 3a and didn't generate any errors. This dashes my hopes that Gabeldorsche would have fixed the issue, allowing me to finally retire the Pixel, but it's mildly reassuring to know that it seems to be a firmware issue. Still has the potential to be correctable. Still frustrated at OnePlus for not being able to figure this out.

I'll send an email out to Cambridge...


----------



## SharkSkin

helmutcheese said:


> I then got the SoundPeats T2 ANC, again glitches in that they randomly decide to turn off etc and battery is nowhere near stated even at lower than 60% volume (again many have same issues).


Don't know if you mean the battery life of just the earbuds themselves or overall, but I've had issues with the earbuds staying on when I put them in the case. Usually causes an annoying whistling sound and sometimes I just have to take them out of the case and let them drain completely before putting them back into the case.



> I do not think there is any ideal TWS out there at any price, I have had Sony/Bose/The high end Anker SoundCore models and OneMore models.


Same. I now have more TWS than I know what to do with and I just rotate depending on my mood. But they all have their own weird quirks that hold them back from being daily drivers.


----------



## helmutcheese

SharkSkin said:


> Don't know if you mean the battery life of just the earbuds themselves or overall, but I've had issues with the earbuds staying on when I put them in the case. Usually causes an annoying whistling sound and sometimes I just have to take them out of the case and let them drain completely before putting them back into the case.
> 
> 
> Same. I now have more TWS than I know what to do with and I just rotate depending on my mood. But they all have their own weird quirks that hold them back from being daily drivers.


I assume you closed the lid as they will stay connected if not and connect as soon as you open the lid again.

When they do not act up power on/off/pairing alerts in my ears randomly they run just about bang on 6 hours with ANC @ 13% Volume playing Brown Noise, they are supposed to get 7.5 hours with ANC @ 60% Volume and 10 hours without ANC @ 60% Volume.

I could not use these for music during the day out and about as they have no Previous Track touch only Next Track which is totally lame.


----------



## SharkSkin

Quick update on the B&W PI5

Noticed that one of TK33's phones is the 8t. It happens to be my primary phone as well. Although I'm not sure it mean's much.

Anyway, I decided to do some testing with my older phone, the Galaxy S10e, and initially things were going fine. It connected just fine and the connection was stable, this was a few hours after I tried listening to them with my 8t right next to me and they could barely go more than 2-3 seconds with out the connection getting choppy. Still had the issue with playback getting choppy when trying to get the app to recognized them, but after the app recognized them it was fine.

Then I moved onto using my chromebook. It connected fine and for around 1.5-2 hours playback was fine. Tried doing a distance test and range was pretty disappointing. I left the chromebook in my room and walked to my kitchen before it completely disconnected. With almost all of my other TWS I'm able to walk beyond the kitchen and into the living room before the connection gets unreliable or completely disconnects. 

After the listening session with my chromebook I decided try connecting back to the S10e. And it was a no go. The left side was the only one connecting. No matter what I did I couldn't get the right one to connect (unpaired from the settings on my phone, tried taking out the right earbud first, tried taking out the right earbud only). Didn't really care for doing another factory reset so I just gave up. 

These past two days I went back to my 8t and so far performance has still been subpar, but more doable. Still get way more drops and choppiness than I do with my other TWS, but its at least been a bit less frequent. Just disappointed that I paid full price for these. Kind of shocking how bad the connectivity and app perform.



helmutcheese said:


> I assume you closed the lid as they will stay connected if not and connect as soon as you open the lid again.
> 
> When they do not act up power on/off/pairing alerts in my ears randomly they run just about bang on 6 hours with ANC @ 13% Volume playing Brown Noise, they are supposed to get 7.5 hours with ANC @ 60% Volume and 10 hours without ANC @ 60% Volume.
> 
> I could not use these for music during the day out and about as they have no Previous Track touch only Next Track which is totally lame.


Yeah, I did close the lid. They still stay on at times. I'll even check to make sure its closed and then see my music still playing and my bluetooth settings saying that its still connected.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic (May 18, 2021)

SharkSkin said:


> Quick update on the B&W PI5
> 
> Noticed that one of TK33's phones is the 8t. It happens to be my primary phone as well. Although I'm not sure it mean's much.
> 
> ...


Didn't realize there were so many OnePlus users here. Glad to know I'm in company...

Is it possible that the cutouts you're experiencing are a codec issue? I was dealing with similar artifacting/cutouts with the Noble Falcon Pro and it took me going into the Developer Options to manually select aptX instead of Adaptive. Try swapping the codec to see if the issue persists. Could very well be that all of the B&Ws are just completely borked from the get-go, but this is at least something you can do that's easily reversible and shouldn't take much time at all.

Quick update on the MT front: I completely reset the MTs, did the whole Mode swap thing using the Pixel 3a, and then did a supplemental pairing with the 8T, starting with the Right bud. Running tracks in Neutron now to hopefully see if I can recreate this issue. I'll keep everybody posted.


----------



## SharkSkin

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Didn't realize there were so many OnePlus users here. Glad to know I'm in company...
> 
> Is it possible that the cutouts you're experiencing are a codec issue? I was dealing with similar artifacting/cutouts with the Noble Falcon Pro and it took me going into the Developer Options to manually select aptX instead of Adaptive. Try swapping the codec to see if the issue persists. Could very well be that all of the B&Ws are just completely borked from the get-go, but this is at least something you can do that's easily reversible and shouldn't take much time at all.
> 
> Quick update on the MT front: I completely reset the MTs, did the whole Mode swap thing using the Pixel 3a, and then did a supplemental pairing with the 8T, starting with the Right bud. Running tracks in Neutron now to hopefully see if I can recreate this issue. I'll keep everybody posted.


I might just try it. I did switch to SBC at one point, but it didn't sound nearly as good as far as I can remember.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

SharkSkin said:


> I might just try it. I did switch to SBC at one point, but it didn't sound nearly as good as far as I can remember.


At least for the NFP, the difference in quality between aptX and "Adaptive" was pretty minimal. Don't think you'll see the same degradation you did with SBC, but I can understand how frustrating it is not getting all of what you paid for.

OnePlus needs to hurry up and push an update to these dang phones. Been waiting since March. Reminds me why having the Pixel 3a as a daily was so nice; you get updates every 5th of the month without fail. If it weren't for the difference in storage space and screen, I'd probably be back on it.


----------



## bladefd

jsmiller58 said:


> TWS with LDAC...  progress (at least for Android aficionados)...
> 
> https://store.hiby.com/pages/hiby-wh2


Maybe that's a sign Sony xm4 will have LDAC?? I don't see Sony giving right to another TWS company to use LDAC if Sony also won't be using LDAC themselves in their own new upcoming TWS. It would be a massive failure on Sony's end imo, and I can't see that happening.

Do all phones support LDAC or only Sony phones??


----------



## TK33 (May 18, 2021)

SharkSkin said:


> Quick update on the B&W PI5
> 
> Noticed that one of TK33's phones is the 8t. It happens to be my primary phone as well. Although I'm not sure it mean's much.
> 
> ...


The app is terrible.  Stutters whenever I try to connect and noticed I had to close all apps sometimes to get it to update (just gets stuck on the same battery level).  Galaxy S10e is probably using aptX and your 8T would default to aptX adaptive I think so that may explain the performance difference.

I do have the 8T but my main phone for music is actually the V60.  I mostly just use my 8T for calls (less memory, no microSD but has my main cell phone number on it b/c I wanted a smaller phone for calls).  Dropouts were terrible on both and I had the same issue you described with the slave bud not reconnecting.  I also tried the case (3.5mm from PC) and I could not get more than 3 feet away without cutouts, which were so bad that I basically had to use the subtitles and eventually gave up and switched to my Aeon 2 Noire.

I tried to do the next room thing but couldn't get out the door of the same room which I am hoping is because mine were defective.  Just to make sure it wasn't my apartment, I took a walk around the block (no one was even around) and I ended up taking them out and putting them away before I was even home because I couldn't listen to a song without a skip.  There have been reports of people not having these issues so hoping mine were just defective.  If you are having similar issues, maybe try returning and buying a new one or reach out to B&W for a replacement (you will have to pay for shipping to them if you use the warranty).


----------



## TK33

bladefd said:


> Maybe that's a sign Sony xm4 will have LDAC?? I don't see Sony giving right to another TWS company to use LDAC if Sony also won't be using LDAC themselves in their own new upcoming TWS. It would be a massive failure on Sony's end imo, and I can't see that happening.
> 
> Do all phones support LDAC or only Sony phones??


I think all newer Android phones generally do.  Works better on some vs. others.  My old Samsung phones had it but didn't work as great as it does on my LG V60.  Works fine on my OnePlus 8T too.  You don't need a Sony phone to use LDAC


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

TK33 said:


> I think all newer Android phones generally do.  Works better on some vs. others.  My old Samsung phones had it but didn't work as great as it does on my LG V60.  Works fine on my OnePlus 8T too.  You don't need a Sony phone to use LDAC


Things get weird when you actually try to look into which bitrate you're effectively using. Some phones default to the 660 middle-ground setting. Some don't tell you at all. Some let you select 990, but there's no way of verifying that's the throughput you're getting.

Honestly, LDAC is a hot mess. I would not make it a differentiator if it were me buying.


----------



## BooleanBones

Couldn't resist from ordering the PI5s today, even after reading the issues others have had. Guess I am a glutton for punishment


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

MT turned off just after an hour.

Oh well, was worth a shot. Here's to hoping for a firmware update soon...


----------



## TK33

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Things get weird when you actually try to look into which bitrate you're effectively using. Some phones default to the 660 middle-ground setting. Some don't tell you at all. Some let you select 990, but there's no way of verifying that's the throughput you're getting.
> 
> Honestly, LDAC is a hot mess. I would not make it a differentiator if it were me buying.


My LDAC receiver is Qudelix 5K (also have ES100 but didnt work as well as the 5K).  With the V60 it works great and I usually get 990 without having to do anything in Developer Options.  The Qudelix app shows the bitrate being received so you can verify this pretty easily.  8T usually sticks to 660, but I generally dont use my 8T for music anyway.  Glad to see LDAC is making its way to TWS.  Hopefully they can get decent battery life.


----------



## clerkpalmer

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Things get weird when you actually try to look into which bitrate you're effectively using. Some phones default to the 660 middle-ground setting. Some don't tell you at all. Some let you select 990, but there's no way of verifying that's the throughput you're getting.
> 
> Honestly, LDAC is a hot mess. I would not make it a differentiator if it were me buying.


I have not experienced LDAC issues on my mobius, deva or ananda BT. I have not tested the throughput to verify bitrate but dropouts have never been an issue. I hear everyone complain about it but it just hasn’t been my experience. Always sounds great to my ears and I always use it when available.  I can force 990 all the time.


----------



## SemiAudiophile

Cryu said:


> MW07 Plus or Melomania Touch? More concerned by proper fitting and comfort in this case, though I understand that it a pretty personal thing. The prices are the same to me after the inclusion of the MW KD13 50% coupon. How does the SQ match up and were the connectivity issues with the MT's fixed?





miserybeforethemusic said:


> Haven't tried the Plus, only the GO, and my experience with it was enough to tell me I'm not the target demo for the M&D sound. If it were my money, I'd go with the MT since it's a known quantity. My connectivity issues were fixed, but they still shut down after an hour of listening if I'm using UAPP/Neutron. It's not fair to fault the manufacturer for compatibility issues with third-party software, though, so I take those as isolated incidents.


I would have to agree. I just received the MW07 plus yesterday, but upon my first 2 hours of listening, I already knew these weren't my cup of tea.

Never heard the MT but I have tried the M1's and I think I prefer the M1 overall.














Master & Dynamic might have the most well built TWS on the market. Design and build quality is impeccable 10/10. Stainless steel case and unique D pad earbud design with nice artwork. Bluetooth connection paired easily, experienced no dropouts, and the buds themselves have nice tactile buttons that work well. I found it odd that they didn't utilize touch controls though with that big surface area. I think they could've designed the artwork on the case better though instead of sticking stickers on them. 

Fit and comfort is great as long as you find the right size ear tips and fins for your ears. With the stock M size tips and fins, I found the fit awkward. I tried without the fins and it was a little better. Then I tried size S fins and the fit was perfectly comfortable and snug in my ears. They use a twisting motion to lock them in your ears. 

As far as sound goes, I knew right away these weren't for me. They seemed to be tailored and tuned to the average, casual consumer with the likes of Bose, Beats, etc. I wouldn't call these "audiophile" grade and they don't compare to my other TWS like the GT220, CX400BT, or Tevi's in sound quality. In fact I would pick my original and first TWS,  Earfun Free with foam tips (my go to workout buds) over them as well. 

The first thing I noticed is that these were bassy. Not crazy bassy, but enough to dominate most of the FR spectrum. Overall, I would say the sound is your typical V-shape but with more bass emphasis and treble rolloff. While these sound "okay" for casual listening and have nice punch in the bass I just didn't find them engaging. It's as if I'm just hearing the sound but not experiencing the music. I find myself keep wanting or wishing more out of them. I just felt bored. 

While they didn't sound great for music, I did find them to sound pretty good for streaming shows/movies. Streamed _The Bad Batch_ on my phone last night, and it was a pretty enjoyable experience. The bass did help in that department. 

At its retail price of $250, I cannot recommend these as there are far better sounding and value TWS out there. At its current discount of 50% off, I would say maybe? Depending on what your priorities are. I did test the ANC with my window AC unit on and it does seem to somewhat work. Drowning out some of the noise, but it wasn't great or particularly useful. Ambient mode seems to work pretty well though. YMMV.

M&D seems like a relatively new company having been established in 2014? These are my first product ever purchased from them. I really wanted to like these TWS based on the artwork and design alone, and I wasn't expecting much but had high hopes based on the 10mm "beryllium" coated drivers. But it's pretty clear who these are made for.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

clerkpalmer said:


> I have not experienced LDAC issues on my mobius, deva or ananda BT. I have not tested the throughput to verify bitrate but dropouts have never been an issue. I hear everyone complain about it but it just hasn’t been my experience. Always sounds great to my ears and I always use it when available.  I can force 990 all the time.


I was plagued with throughput issues on the Mobius, but understand everybody's experience is different. I'd hate to see someone get an aptX TWS and try to run it off a device that can't adequately handle it.


----------



## tinyman392

I picked up my Jabra 85t today.  So just a quick rundown.  I have an air purifier behind me running on full blast right now.  The ANC worked very well, same with ear detection which is very nice to have.  There is an in-ward facing mic which works pretty well to cancel out noise, but leaves my voice sounding very sibilant when I talk.  The pass through/transparency mode does sound a little amplified, but if I minimize it, it gets rid of most amplification issues, still have the issues of sibilance though.  Updated the firmware and it fixed up a lot of the sibilance issues, but not entirely.    Update also seemed to deal with some of the skipping issues I was having at first too.  Though that may be just dumb luck.  

Was planning to compare with my APP as it’s my best ANC in-ear I have on hand.  Then I remembered that my APP suffers from the ANC issues that I never got around to fixing (getting replaced).  Well I went ahead and did that today too since my local Apple Store had available Genius Bar reservations.  Explain the ANC issues 2x, drop them off for diagnostic test, wait 30 minutes and come back to find that they did in fact both fail diagnostic tests to get a new pair.  

So I normally look at external ANC, internal ANC, and transparency when rating those sorts of features.  The internal ANC of the 85t still has an edge of sibilance to it compared to the APP.  It’s actually not too unlike the APM when it first released, though the sibilance of the APM went away (either due to a firmware update or something else).  The external ANC is very good, though the APP seems to isolate just a tad bit more.  APP still is the king of transparency for me, but when turning down the passthrough on the 85t, it no longer sounds amplified which is great!  The transparency is definitely usable for me  

The 85t is one of the IEMs that quickly reminds me that the best _feeling_ silicone tip isn’t the best _fitting_ one.  The large tip feels the best in my ears, which I found odd since I normally use small tips.  However, the medium is the one that seals the best.  The medium one doesn’t even feel like it seals, but the fit is very good with very little variation in sound.  The tips included for the Jabra are indeed very odd.  Their are ovular, but like very stretched on one axis.  Most ovular tips feel very secure on my ears (Klipsch and Apple’s come to mind, there were others too though); these don’t feel very secure, but they definitely are.  

I’m very happy with the sound quality of the 85t.  They have a very warm tonality to them.  The upper range is a little tamed off, but quite neutral otherwise.


----------



## clerkpalmer

miserybeforethemusic said:


> I was plagued with throughput issues on the Mobius, but understand everybody's experience is different. I'd hate to see someone get an aptX TWS and try to run it off a device that can't adequately handle it.


Definitely could have been the case. The mobius sounded best wired via usb anyway. There’s a lot of hate on LDAC over in the Apple forums and the APM thread. I don’t understand criticism of Sony for at least trying to push the envelope. Classic Apple to not innovate but rather refine.  I’m not an Apple hater at all and am using an iPhone but it would be nice if they could take a chance once in a while instead of always playing it safe. Yesterday’s announcement was a safe as one could get. Off topic I guess. Anyway those new LDAC tws bids will be mine!


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

clerkpalmer said:


> Definitely could have been the case. The mobius sounded best wired via usb anyway. There’s a lot of hate on LDAC over in the Apple forums and the APM thread. I don’t understand criticism of Sony for at least trying to push the envelope. Classic Apple to not innovate but rather refine.  I’m not an Apple hater at all and am using an iPhone but it would be nice if they could take a chance once in a while instead of always playing it safe. Yesterday’s announcement was a safe as one could get. Off topic I guess. Anyway those new LDAC tws bids will be mine!


Sorry if I was sounding like a hater. Was leaning on my own experience, which I really _had_ hoped was positive. By the time I had a device capable of running it properly (8T), I had given up on the Mobius anyway. Hopefully those buds work out, but don't be surprised if HiBy doesn't support them very long. I can't believe they already seem to be phasing out the WH3; I really don't feel comfortable supporting HiBy if this is going to be a trend.

Apple made a safe announcement and "refined" someone else's idea? Sounds about right. Just calling it like it is. They still have to explain to me why they charged so much for those Mac Pro wheels before I'll give them a shred of dignity. I wish them the best, but I certainly wouldn't expect it.


----------



## ryanjsoo (May 18, 2021)

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Yes, it's very consistent, though it's possible the 3k hump he's hearing could be amplified by his ear shape; without talking to the reviewer, I'm not sure I'd know how to characterize that. THL is a fantastic blog, though, and I do tend to agree with Ryan and his ears. Only thing I can't tell from the review body is whether he reviewed the first or second generation of the M5. Also not 100% sure what changed from variant to variant, aside from stronger magnets in the case. I do see that his retail box is white while mine is black and states "M5-TWS (2ND GEN)" in the description up top.
> 
> All that's to say there are probably some minor variations in tuning, but I want to avoid any impression of "arguing" with Ryan's impressions. I will give the following caveats, though:
> 
> ...



Thank you! This was a humbling post to read, I'm glad I can have a positive impact on readers and that you find my work insightful and helpful.

I reviewed the V1 M5 TWS. I did see they updated the model but haven't gotten around to a review of it just yet due to my schedule. From my understanding the mic and magnets have changed and it seems they've revised the wireless chipset.

I wouldn't be surprised if this has changed the sound as we saw on the Master & Dynamic earphones. I had a prominent hiss on mine that you don't appear to have, so that may be the case. Either way, a great TWS earphone, nicely tuned. if they've brought it more in line with the custom variant then the v2 should be a nice step forward in tonal refinement.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

ryanjsoo said:


> Thank you! This was a humbling post to read, I'm glad I can have a positive impact on readers and that you find my work insightful and helpful.
> 
> I reviewed the V1 M5 TWS. I did see they updated the model but haven't gotten around to a review of it just yet due to my schedule. From my understanding the mic and magnets have changed and it seems they've revised the wireless chipset.
> 
> I wouldn't be surprised if this has changed the sound as we saw on the Master & Dynamic earphones. I had a prominent hiss on mine that you don't appear to have, so that may be the case. Either way, a great TWS earphone, nicely tuned. if they've brought it more in line with the custom variant then the v2 should be a nice step forward in tonal refinement.


If I had the time to dedicate, I'd offer a writeup for you myself, but even my schedule is a bit packed. If there's something I can do to help, don't hesitate to let me know. You, the rest of the THL crew, and @flinkenick (whether he knows it or not...guess he knows now) were integral to me knowing what I do today. Least I could do in return.

No audible hiss on my end, so seems ADV definitely delivered on that end. Magnets are improved; they hold tight if you turn the thing upside down, but they fall out pretty easily with a shake. But I digress...

ADV, you did well. Still some room for improvement, but I love this dang set. Despite all its limitations, I positively love the tuning and technicalities of this thing. Bravo!


----------



## jsmiller58

miserybeforethemusic said:


> If I had the time to dedicate, I'd offer a writeup for you myself, but even my schedule is a bit packed. If there's something I can do to help, don't hesitate to let me know. You, the rest of the THL crew, and @flinkenick (whether he knows it or not...guess he knows now) were integral to me knowing what I do today. Least I could do in return.
> 
> No audible hiss on my end, so seems ADV definitely delivered on that end. Magnets are improved; they hold tight if you turn the thing upside down, but they fall out pretty easily with a shake. But I digress...
> 
> ADV, you did well. Still some room for improvement, but I love this dang set. Despite all its limitations, I positively love the tuning and technicalities of this thing. Bravo!


I just ordered the M5 TWS...  ok, let’s see how long before the next set...


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

jsmiller58 said:


> I just ordered the M5 TWS...  ok, let’s see how long before the next set...


I mean I'm about to start trying all the 2-pin IEMs with the CF01. That could get interesting...man, that CF01 is awesome.

Think you'll really dig the M5. It definitely impressed me.


----------



## samandhi

For those that are curious, and don't pay as close attention to updating apps as I do (or don't), May 8th saw an update for the Melomania app on android (at least) that adds support for the M1+


----------



## samandhi

Ok, so this may be the week for troubles on the TWS front. I have one of my own that is definitely weird. I had went to bed tonight at around 9:30PM, but couldn't sleep. So, I came back down stairs (phone in hand), and got an email alert. It just vibrated, and didn't make any noise. I checked it for volume, and when hitting the volume rocker I noticed that it was connected to a BT device. 

When I went into the settings I saw it was connected to the Nuarl N6Pro. What?? I haven't used them in days, and they were in the case with the lid closed. I have not seen this before. Whenever I do a scan for BT I always see my Bose Soundsport Free because even in the case they are "On" (hence the constant battery drain on the case). But, none of the newer TWS I have, have exhibited this behavior. As soon as I plugged the case into a charger, the connection went away. The case was fully charged, so I am not sure why this happened either. Anyhow, there are MY woes for the week (I hope that is all).


----------



## tiagopinto

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Basically locked-in once you figure out which tip works best for your ear, but I'll try to "simulate" a bike ride for your sake. To steal a trick from @Slater I'd suggest just swabbing your ears prior to the bike ride. Should help maintain grip really well, though I never felt like these were loose.
> 
> Oh and look what just showed up:
> 
> Just as soon as I thought I was done for a bit...



Hmm, is that MMCX to 2-pin? Interesting.


----------



## tiagopinto

Slowhand said:


> *
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Wow, already? I know it’s not official yet, but still... this is very exciting!


----------



## C_Lindbergh

https://www.xda-developers.com/android-12-bluetooth-le-audio-api/

Finally something is happening


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

tiagopinto said:


> Hmm, is that MMCX to 2-pin? Interesting.


Sure is. Took a while for those adapters to show up, but well worth it. Just made the CF01 compatible with everything else in my IEM collection.


----------



## tiagopinto

So, after RMA, I got the MT back in today. Just wanted to point out that I received an “Updated Quick Start Guide” that was outside of the MT’s box itself. I guess it’s just a more thorough guide to a few steps which were not on the guide inside the box. This may avoid certain types of complaints about eventual pairing issues. 

Now on to test them... or should I say re-test! Happy I got them back anyway as they are extremely useful to me for “out and about”. And did I say I love their sound?...


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

tiagopinto said:


> So, after RMA, I got the MT back in today. Just wanted to point out that I received an “Updated Quick Start Guide” that was outside of the MT’s box itself. I guess it’s just a more thorough guide to a few steps which were not on the guide inside the box. This may avoid certain types of complaints about eventual pairing issues.
> 
> Now on to test them... or should I say re-test! Happy I got them back anyway as they are extremely useful to me for “out and about”. And did I say I love their sound?...


Had the same guide in my set as well. Cute that they put it in an envelope and really glad they're back in your hands!


----------



## clerkpalmer

Ok, pop quiz, Advanced or CA based on sq and stability of fit? I feel like the advanced may sound better but I’m a little worried about slippage with no wings. 

Advanced has confirmed an ipx5 rating.


----------



## dj24

C_Lindbergh said:


> https://www.xda-developers.com/android-12-bluetooth-le-audio-api/
> 
> Finally something is happening



It was good reading until I got to the end.... 



> Keep in mind that Bluetooth LE Audio’s new LC3 codec will not do much to improve audio quality per see. Instead, it will help with improving battery life and signal robustness. This will translate into a better user experience for a large majority of users.


----------



## clerkpalmer

tiagopinto said:


> So, after RMA, I got the MT back in today. Just wanted to point out that I received an “Updated Quick Start Guide” that was outside of the MT’s box itself. I guess it’s just a more thorough guide to a few steps which were not on the guide inside the box. This may





dj24 said:


> It was good reading until I got to the end....


Yeah the whole LE thing is underwhelming. Sure battery life and latency are important as is stability but I was hoping for advances in SQ.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

clerkpalmer said:


> Ok, pop quiz, Advanced or CA based on sq and stability of fit? I feel like the advanced may sound better but I’m a little worried about slippage with no wings.
> 
> Advanced has confirmed an ipx5 rating.


Once they're in, I couldn't get the ADV to move. There is a little piece up top that somewhat rests in the antitragus, so it's not completely like it's wing-less. It wins on pure SQ.

Biking, I'd be concerned about that standby power issue I've been facing with the MT. You'd be happy with either set, though.


----------



## clerkpalmer

Thanks. Advanced for the win.


----------



## C_Lindbergh

clerkpalmer said:


> Yeah the whole LE thing is underwhelming. Sure battery life and latency are important as is stability but I was hoping for advances in SQ.


LE audio is a game changer for True Wireless earbuds imo...:

*True independent connection instead of Master/Slave
* Low latency
* Better battery life
*Multi connections
*New high quality codec that replaces SBC


----------



## clerkpalmer

C_Lindbergh said:


> LE audio is a game changer for True Wireless earbuds imo...:
> 
> *True independent connection instead of Master/Slave
> * Low latency
> ...


I mean all nice features that will probably lead to significant improvements. Multi connections is nice. I assume this requires new hardware so I guess we will see if big phone makers adopt this this year. Google likely will. I wonder about Samsung. This has interesting ramifications for Apple as well as I assume they will not.


----------



## clerkpalmer

Advanced M5 ordered.  I’m sure Sony and Apple will now introduce their newest technology within 48 hours causing further harm to my wallet.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

clerkpalmer said:


> Advanced M5 ordered.  I’m sure Sony and Apple will now introduce their newest technology within 48 hours causing further harm to my wallet.


Seems to be how it always works.

Taking a listening break today. Too much sinus congestion. Man, being sick stinks.


----------



## jsmiller58

clerkpalmer said:


> Advanced M5 ordered.  I’m sure Sony and Apple will now introduce their newest technology within 48 hours causing further harm to my wallet.


Right there with you...  In the last few days I have ordered the CA MT, the Status Between Pro, and ADV M5 TWS...  It is certain that revolutionary new products, that will sound like choirs of angels singing, will be introduced in the next few weeks...


----------



## dweaver

As tempting as the ADV M5 are I am going to patiently wait for the Status Between Pro to get shipped as I have a feeling they will offer a similar excellent listening experience. The challenge of course is the wait... LOL

Looking at the comments section on Indiegogo is promising though as I am starting to see lots of people responding they are getting their units, so it looks like shipping is starting to improve. The other good news is I don't see many complaints about how they sound which is the most important thing.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

dweaver said:


> As tempting as the ADV M5 are I am going to patiently wait for the Status Between Pro to get shipped as I have a feeling they will offer a similar excellent listening experience. The challenge of course is the wait... LOL
> 
> Looking at the comments section on Indiegogo is promising though as I am starting to see lots of people responding they are getting their units, so it looks like shipping is starting to improve. The other good news is I don't see many complaints about how they sound which is the most important thing.


Mine is supposed to ship this week. Still haven't heard anything.


----------



## clerkpalmer

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Seems to be how it always works.
> 
> Taking a listening break today. Too much sinus congestion. Man, being sick stinks.


I have to do this from time to time as well to keep my raging tinnitus in check. To any children out there, please do not attend 100 plus heavy metal concerts in the 80s and 90s (pre grunge) without hearing protection.
Looking forward to receiving the advanced, with the beats buds and xm4 presumably to follow in short order. And those HiBys of course. Good luck with the cold.


----------



## CocaCola15 (May 19, 2021)

dweaver said:


> As tempting as the ADV M5 are I am going to patiently wait for the Status Between Pro to get shipped as I have a feeling they will offer a similar excellent listening experience. The challenge of course is the wait... LOL
> 
> Looking at the comments section on Indiegogo is promising though as I am starting to see lots of people responding they are getting their units, so it looks like shipping is starting to improve. The other good news is I don't see many complaints about how they sound which is the most important thing.


I had stopped reading the comments because it was mainly complaints about shipping dates (a crowdsourcing issue by my experience). But I know the Status people are honest, which is what counts most. I am guessing they will be very relieved when the crowdsourced orders are shipped and they can start shipping their retail units. Based on the amount of responses they have made on the site. Anyway, I have come across only one other Between Pro owner hereabouts, and he just mentioned he thought they sounded great. I have to agree, but others may not like them as much. They do have a unique design, ugly sort of, but fit me fine and are easy to use. I don't mess with the buttons much, just the pause and take a call, both a single click on the right side. I use my phone to make volume and other adjustments. Not a problem for me. I have 3 main units, the Melomania 1+, the Melomania Touch and the Between Pros, the MT is the one that bugs me because touch controls are too easy to trigger accidentally. All sound excellent to me. Done testing new models for now. See what happens later in the year.

Anyway, hope you like the Between Pros, once they finally ship.

Update: Checked the Indiegogo comments (it's been a long, long time) and to the person (who got them) they are raving about the BPs. Now, they don't sound like an audiophile group, but on the other hand, they seem to be very happy to have the BPs in their ears, some waited 7 months to get them, complained a lot, and now they are thrilled. That is a good thing.


----------



## Slowhand

clerkpalmer said:


> I mean all nice features that will probably lead to significant improvements. Multi connections is nice. I assume this requires new hardware so I guess we will see if big phone makers adopt this this year. Google likely will. I wonder about Samsung. This has interesting ramifications for Apple as well as I assume they will not.


I don't see why Apple would not. This is not really anything "optional" as it is a new Bluetooth industry standard. The only risk I see is if it timing wise can't make it into the iPhone 13, thus we'd have to wait for the iPhone 14.


----------



## X-Nemesis

What's everyone's go to exercise TWS atm?  I'm currently switching between the Mpow M30's because they fit so well, and the Earfun Free Pro's which while not fitting as well, sound fuller.


----------



## samandhi

X-Nemesis said:


> What's everyone's go to exercise TWS atm?  I'm currently switching between the Mpow M30's because they fit so well, and the Earfun Free Pro's which while not fitting as well, sound fuller.


Naaah. I just don't exorcise.  BUT.... if I did, it would probably be with my Nuarl N6Pro. The Bose Soundsport pro fit me the best and I like them for outside, but the N6P just have much better sound, while still fitting me very well. The TWS600 fit well, but I am not so sure they would stay in place well while working out. The MT definitely wouldn't stay in place for me, though they have the best sound.


----------



## tinyman392

X-Nemesis said:


> What's everyone's go to exercise TWS atm?  I'm currently switching between the Mpow M30's because they fit so well, and the Earfun Free Pro's which while not fitting as well, sound fuller.


I generally don’t wear headphones when working out (boring I know).  If I were to do it, however, I’d choose something that is ANC and does a good job canceling out microphonics.  So something like the APP, Sony, 85t, Bose… They all have the ability to cancel out microphonics (internal sound).  Transparency modes can be useful if you need to be aware of your surroundings.


----------



## clerkpalmer

X-Nemesis said:


> What's everyone's go to exercise TWS atm?  I'm currently switching between the Mpow M30's because they fit so well, and the Earfun Free Pro's which while not fitting as well, sound fuller.


Hard to beat the m30 in this context.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

X-Nemesis said:


> What's everyone's go to exercise TWS atm?  I'm currently switching between the Mpow M30's because they fit so well, and the Earfun Free Pro's which while not fitting as well, sound fuller.


For me, it's either the ADV or FITS, depending on the mood. FITS for calm and cool. ADVs get me up and moving.


----------



## dweaver

The comments on the Between Pro might not be HF type posts but they sure seem like happy customers when it comes to sound which is a huge endorsement in my opinion.


----------



## jant71

clerkpalmer said:


> Yeah the whole LE thing is underwhelming. Sure battery life and latency are important as is stability but I was hoping for advances in SQ.


"LC3plus is LC3's sibling, equipped with numerous additional functionalities. While comprising all features of LC3, including high speech and audio quality, LC3plus incorporates functionalities for transmission robustness, extremely low-delay use cases and high-resolution audio transmission. To improve robustness, LC3plus contains a very high-performance packet loss concealment algorithm as well as forward error correction schemes such as channel coding or redundancy frame modes. Furthermore, the codec can operate at several low-delay modes – down to 5ms at a 2.5ms packet size, instead of the 7.5 ms frame length mode known from LC3. LC3plus also includes dedicated high-resolution audio modes, which improve the measurable audio quality beyond perceptual transparency (up to 500 kbit/s per channel).

"LC3plus’s dedicated high-resolution audio mode provides a high-quality transmission link of 24 bit and 96 kHz audio data, which performs excellently with regards to Signal-to-Noise Ratio (SNR) and Total Harmonic Distortion and Noise (THD+N). This makes it the ideal codec to bring high-transparency audio streaming to high-resolution wireless accessories such as headsets or loudspeakers. LC3plus is the only open-standard audio codec for high-resolution wireless headsets and high-quality gaming headsets. Fraunhofer IIS can provide support with the implementation of LC3plus in devices based on the Bluetooth A2DP profile."


----------



## senorbroom (May 19, 2021)

Updated Lypertek Z3 (Tevi) announced: https://www.techpowerup.com/282374/the-best-just-got-better-lypertek-announces-the-pureplay-z3-2-0

Lypertek PurePlay Z3 2.0 Feature Overview:

Latest update on the multi award winning PurePlay Z3 (Tevi)
Exclusively designed 6mm Graphene drivers with 20Hz - 20kHz frequency response
Microphone with cVc 8.0 noise cancelling, echo cancellation and noise suppression
IPX7 waterproof rating that protects the earphones from sweat and rain damage
10+70: 10 hours playtime on a single charge and up to further 7 times charging via the charging case extending the full playtime to up to 80 hours
Easy Control: Easy to use soft-touch tactile buttons which avoid accidental button presses
(New) High quality fabric charging case now support wireless charging
(New) Switchable Hear Through Mode for staying aware of the environment
(New) Now also available in white
(New) Customizable EQ and LDX Audio mode via the new Lypertek PureControl app
(New) Equipped with the latest Qualcomm QCC3040 Bluetooth 5.2 chipset with aptX and AAC high-quality audio codecs for an even more stable wireless connection with extended range


----------



## rsbanner

CocaCola15 said:


> I had stopped reading the comments because it was mainly complaints about shipping dates (a crowdsourcing issue by my experience). But I know the Status people are honest, which is what counts most. I am guessing they will be very relieved when the crowdsourced orders are shipped and they can start shipping their retail units. Based on the amount of responses they have made on the site. Anyway, I have come across only one other Between Pro owner hereabouts, and he just mentioned he thought they sounded great. I have to agree, but others may not like them as much. They do have a unique design, ugly sort of, but fit me fine and are easy to use. I don't mess with the buttons much, just the pause and take a call, both a single click on the right side. I use my phone to make volume and other adjustments. Not a problem for me. I have 3 main units, the Melomania 1+, the Melomania Touch and the Between Pros, the MT is the one that bugs me because touch controls are too easy to trigger accidentally. All sound excellent to me. Done testing new models for now. See what happens later in the year.
> 
> Anyway, hope you like the Between Pros, once they finally ship.
> 
> Update: Checked the Indiegogo comments (it's been a long, long time) and to the person (who got them) they are raving about the BPs. Now, they don't sound like an audiophile group, but on the other hand, they seem to be very happy to have the BPs in their ears, some waited 7 months to get them, complained a lot, and now they are thrilled. That is a good thing.


Thank you for this clarifying post!


----------



## SemiAudiophile

X-Nemesis said:


> What's everyone's go to exercise TWS atm?  I'm currently switching between the Mpow M30's because they fit so well, and the Earfun Free Pro's which while not fitting as well, sound fuller.


I've been using the original Earfun Free's. Their passive isolation is excellent with foam tips. I tend to listen to hip hop or something upbeat when working out and these are great for that purpose. No issues with them falling out of my ears when running or biking. 

They sound the best with comply tips. I think I tried the ISO 400 on them and it turned them into BASS MONSTERS. Like subwoofers in my ears. The fit wasn't great though as the tips would keep falling out and they wouldn't fit in the case so I stopped using them. Haven't tried the true grip tips yet recommend by comply. 

I've been using the extra foam tips from Lypertek instead. They fit in the case and has a better balance of bass/treble.


----------



## samandhi

jant71 said:


> "LC3plus is LC3's sibling, equipped with numerous additional functionalities. While comprising all features of LC3, including high speech and audio quality, LC3plus incorporates functionalities for transmission robustness, extremely low-delay use cases and high-resolution audio transmission. To improve robustness, LC3plus contains a very high-performance packet loss concealment algorithm as well as forward error correction schemes such as channel coding or redundancy frame modes. Furthermore, the codec can operate at several low-delay modes – down to 5ms at a 2.5ms packet size, instead of the 7.5 ms frame length mode known from LC3. LC3plus also includes dedicated high-resolution audio modes, which improve the measurable audio quality beyond perceptual transparency (up to 500 kbit/s per channel).
> 
> "LC3plus’s dedicated high-resolution audio mode provides a high-quality transmission link of 24 bit and 96 kHz audio data, which performs excellently with regards to Signal-to-Noise Ratio (SNR) and Total Harmonic Distortion and Noise (THD+N). This makes it the ideal codec to bring high-transparency audio streaming to high-resolution wireless accessories such as headsets or loudspeakers. LC3plus is the only open-standard audio codec for high-resolution wireless headsets and high-quality gaming headsets. Fraunhofer IIS can provide support with the implementation of LC3plus in devices based on the Bluetooth A2DP profile."


Cool find. I love that new technology is starting to come to bear. I just wish the LHDC would take off (and LDAC more-so). For those not in the know about LHDC and the LL version thereof (LLAC) here is some info:

*Low Latency High-Definition Audio Codec* (*LHDC*) is an audio codec technology developed by Savitech. LHDC allows high-resolution audio streaming over Bluetooth.
LHDC supports bitrates of 400/560/900 kbit/s, bit-depth of up to 24 bit and sample rate of up to 96 kHz.
On 2 September 2018 the Hi-Res Wireless Audio (HWA) Union was formed to promote LHDC adoption.[8] Also known as the HWA Alliance. The HWA Union Board of Directors includes:


AKM
China Electronics Technology Group Corporation
Cirrus Logic
Edifier
Guoguang Electric
HiFiMAN
HiVi
Huawei
Institute of Acoustics of the Chinese Academy of Sciences
Savitech
iriver
Sennheiser
Taihe Music Group
Other HWA Union members include:


ams AG
Astell&Kern
Audio-Technica
Aukey
Cayin
Cozoy
Coolhere
Colorfly
DA&T
DA-ART
DUNU
FiiO
Fostex
Haylou
HiBy
infly
iEAST
Liesheng
Musiland
NFJ FX-AUDIO
OC Studio
Onkyo
Pioneer
ProStereo
QCY
Questyle Audio
Quloos (QLS HiFi)
Radius
Shanling
S.M.S.L
TASCAM
TEAC
TempTec
Tecsun
TiinLab
Topping
Tube Fan Audio
VMN
xDuoo
YULONG Audio
1MORE
The problem is that it is not native to android (that I know of), and there are only about 4 media players that include this driver in it. And, they all are not up to par with the likes of something like Neutron, or UAPP....


----------



## mainguy

X-Nemesis said:


> What's everyone's go to exercise TWS atm?  I'm currently switching between the Mpow M30's because they fit so well, and the Earfun Free Pro's which while not fitting as well, sound fuller.


PI7. The sound is on another level.

I'll post a proper review here soon. I've been going back and forth between them and the Airpods Max; in short, the PI7 (imo) are a better audio device by a good margin.


----------



## clerkpalmer

mainguy said:


> PI7. The sound is on another level.
> 
> I'll post a proper review here soon. I've been going back and forth between them and the Airpods Max; in short, the PI7 (imo) are a better audio device by a good margin.


Indeedy. I had the pleasure of using them on my bike the other day because my beaters were dead. They sounded great and surprisingly sealed off noise very well. The honestly remind me of full size cans in terms of sound. Not something easily said of iems let alone tws iems.


----------



## TK33

X-Nemesis said:


> What's everyone's go to exercise TWS atm?  I'm currently switching between the Mpow M30's because they fit so well, and the Earfun Free Pro's which while not fitting as well, sound fuller.


Mine are the MW07 Go these days.


----------



## jsmiller58 (May 20, 2021)

Wow, the CA MT are pretty amazing sounding...  simply wow.  My other TWS - Liberty 2 Pro, Life A2 NC, and Amazon buds v2, just pale by comparison.  No EQ yet applied and already sound better.

My niggles so far:  1.  pairing is temperamental (yes, I applied the extra instructions supplied, but I needed to pair them multiple times), 2.  the volume up/down by touching the IEMs is too sensitive, 3.  the fit is not great - they don’t feel snugly settled in my ears.  At this point that’s what I have as complaints...

Not bad, so far, but it’s been less than an hour, so we will see...


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

jsmiller58 said:


> Wow, the CA MT are pretty amazing sounding...  simply wow.  My other TWS - Liberty 2 Pro, Liberty A2 NC, and Amazon buds v2, just pale by comparison.  No EQ yet applied and already sound better.
> 
> My niggles so far:  1.  pairing is temperamental (yes, I applied the extra instructions supplied, but I needed to pair them multiple times), 2.  the volume up/down by touching the IEMs is too sensitive, 3.  the fit is not great - they don’t feel snugly settled in my ears.  At this point that’s what I have as complaints...
> 
> Not bad, so far, but it’s been less than an hour, so we will see...


After some time with them, it should get easier to figure out which tip/wing combo works best in your ears; the most stable fit may not be the one that feels the tightest. It took me a while to figure out that Medium EPro TW00/small wings did the best for me. Rock solid fit, but have that standby issue to worry about.

Seems like one's experience with pairing really comes down to which device they use. Pixel was effortless; 8T not so much.

Volume seemed to work best for me when I kept my finger on the bud until it reached the desired volume. Might help the accidental "pause/play" gesture. Alternatively, you can just disable everything expect HearThrough and volume control (my preference).


----------



## bronco1015

samandhi said:


> Ok, so this may be the week for troubles on the TWS front. I have one of my own that is definitely weird. I had went to bed tonight at around 9:30PM, but couldn't sleep. So, I came back down stairs (phone in hand), and got an email alert. It just vibrated, and didn't make any noise. I checked it for volume, and when hitting the volume rocker I noticed that it was connected to a BT device.
> 
> When I went into the settings I saw it was connected to the Nuarl N6Pro. What?? I haven't used them in days, and they were in the case with the lid closed. I have not seen this before. Whenever I do a scan for BT I always see my Bose Soundsport Free because even in the case they are "On" (hence the constant battery drain on the case). But, none of the newer TWS I have, have exhibited this behavior. As soon as I plugged the case into a charger, the connection went away. The case was fully charged, so I am not sure why this happened either. Anyhow, there are MY woes for the week (I hope that is all).


Dang. the N6p has been a battery champ for me. I have let them sit for 3 months once, I was planning to sell them and never got around to it, pulled them out to listen and they were at 100% both iems on my phone. Plus the sound reminded me why i loved listening to them in the first place. Put them back in the case and they shut off. i expected they'd stay on after not being used for so long. Heres hoping what happened for you  was a fluke 1 time thing. The only TWEs i have battery drain issues with are the AZ70, and that's if they don't get used, otherwise I can use them for several cycles before needing to recharge, and the battery drain didn't start till 6-7 months of owning them. The OG MTW of course, has had battery drain issues from day 1 if they go unused for a day-day and a half, which hasn't happened much. Though these days i'm lucky to get 2 hours out of them.


----------



## bronco1015

samandhi said:


> Cool find. I love that new technology is starting to come to bear. I just wish the LHDC would take off (and LDAC more-so). For those not in the know about LHDC and the LL version thereof (LLAC) here is some info:
> 
> *Low Latency High-Definition Audio Codec* (*LHDC*) is an audio codec technology developed by Savitech. LHDC allows high-resolution audio streaming over Bluetooth.
> LHDC supports bitrates of 400/560/900 kbit/s, bit-depth of up to 24 bit and sample rate of up to 96 kHz.
> ...


I don't have a compatible headset or accessory of any kind to test this with, but in dev options LHDC is an optional codec to select on my mi Mix2S. It's below the LDAC playback options. But I didn't see Xiaomi on that list. Weird.


----------



## bronco1015

clerkpalmer said:


> Indeedy. I had the pleasure of using them on my bike the other day because my beaters were dead. They sounded great and surprisingly sealed off noise very well. The honestly remind me of full size cans in terms of sound. Not something easily said of iems let alone tws iems.


Damnit, don't tempt me to buy these. i've been thinking of making an exception to my rule of no more than $300 on an IEM; TWE or otherwise, but the only way I'll do that is by redeeming reward dollars from amex...Have you owned or listened to the PX7? since you mention the PI7 remind you of full size Headphones, wonder if they have a similar tuning.


----------



## tinyman392

samandhi said:


> Ok, so this may be the week for troubles on the TWS front. I have one of my own that is definitely weird. I had went to bed tonight at around 9:30PM, but couldn't sleep. So, I came back down stairs (phone in hand), and got an email alert. It just vibrated, and didn't make any noise. I checked it for volume, and when hitting the volume rocker I noticed that it was connected to a BT device.
> 
> When I went into the settings I saw it was connected to the Nuarl N6Pro. What?? I haven't used them in days, and they were in the case with the lid closed. I have not seen this before. Whenever I do a scan for BT I always see my Bose Soundsport Free because even in the case they are "On" (hence the constant battery drain on the case). But, none of the newer TWS I have, have exhibited this behavior. As soon as I plugged the case into a charger, the connection went away. The case was fully charged, so I am not sure why this happened either. Anyhow, there are MY woes for the week (I hope that is all).


That’s really odd. Normally that only happens to my TWS when the case is dead. Possibly the lid didn’t read closed or the case was erroneously reading dead. Those are the only two things I could think up of.

One thing I like about the APP with Apple devices is that they by default won’t connect fully with the source (not as an audio device) unless they’re in your ears. A lot of headphones have the ability and hardware required to support this feature too if they really wanted to.


----------



## tiagopinto (May 20, 2021)

X-Nemesis said:


> What's everyone's go to exercise TWS atm?  I'm currently switching between the Mpow M30's because they fit so well, and the Earfun Free Pro's which while not fitting as well, sound fuller.



I ride my mountain bike, through trails and bumps, using my MT. With the fins they don’t move at all. I feel pretty secure with these.

I mostly ride with transparency on at 75%, unless I’m off-road and the wind is bothering me too much. Even on the trails, I feel I like to be aware of the surroundings (so at least 50%). On the road it’s a must. But I don’t keep fiddling with it, it’s usually at 75% and either on or off.

If I’m riding with buddies, I’ve chosen to put one of the buds back in the case a few times, so I may hear them better.

Between the percentage of transparency and being able to use one of the buds independently, you have more than enough versatility.

The sound is amazing, of course.


----------



## michsu (May 20, 2021)

Interesting… I don’t know if it’s true though. (For Airpods Max using Airplay)


----------



## jant71 (May 20, 2021)

Nokia with a Knowles + dynamic coming in a few months...







https://zmwjps6jiqbguax6633r3agcwi-ac4c6men2g7xr2a-www-makuake-com.translate.goog/project/nokia/


----------



## DigDub

jant71 said:


> Nokia with a Knowles + dynamic coming in a few months...
> 
> 
> https://zmwjps6jiqbguax6633r3agcwi-ac4c6men2g7xr2a-www-makuake-com.translate.goog/project/nokia/


It's actually available for sale already.


----------



## SemiAudiophile

Of course Thieaudio releases a new set of tribrid twins Excalibur / Oracle at the $500 mark...and Crin says the Oracle is _very close_ to the Clairvoyance.

Only question is, should I get them now or later? 🤔 I think I'll wait til more reviews come in...need to return some more things first. 😅

At least they're 2-pin so I can use them with the UTWS3 without an adapter. I returned the BT20S pro already.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

SemiAudiophile said:


> Of course Thieaudio releases a new set of tribrid twins Excalibur / Oracle at the $500 mark...and Crin says the Oracle is _very close_ to the Clairvoyance.
> 
> Only question is, should I get them now or later? 🤔 I think I'll wait til more reviews come in...need to return some more things first. 😅
> 
> At least they're 2-pin so I can use them with the UTWS3 without an adapter. I returned the BT20S pro already.


I'd wait until it at least goes through BGGAR's stable. Trust his ears well enough and he's familiar with the Thie sound.

Those OE adapters are so worth it, by the way. Been loving the B2/CF01 combo. Tried the Kanas Pro last night and found out either the filter is clogged or they're perma-borked with a channel imbalance. I'll try to troubleshoot today.


----------



## tinyman392

SemiAudiophile said:


> Of course Thieaudio releases a new set of tribrid twins Excalibur / Oracle at the $500 mark...and Crin says the Oracle is _very close_ to the Clairvoyance.
> 
> Only question is, should I get them now or later? 🤔 I think I'll wait til more reviews come in...need to return some more things first. 😅
> 
> At least they're 2-pin so I can use them with the UTWS3 without an adapter. I returned the BT20S pro already.


They aren't _recessed_ 2-pin right?  Those seem to not be as popular anymore (at least compared to when I entered into this hobby).  My recessed 2-pin IEMs don't work with the Fiio adapters.  Otherwise I'd be using my HiFiMan CIEMs with them


----------



## SemiAudiophile

tinyman392 said:


> They aren't _recessed_ 2-pin right?  Those seem to not be as popular anymore (at least compared to when I entered into this hobby).  My recessed 2-pin IEMs don't work with the Fiio adapters.  Otherwise I'd be using my HiFiMan CIEMs with them


Nope they are flush AFAIK. 🙂


----------



## SemiAudiophile (May 20, 2021)

miserybeforethemusic said:


> I'd wait until it at least goes through BGGAR's stable. Trust his ears well enough and he's familiar with the Thie sound.
> 
> Those OE adapters are so worth it, by the way. Been loving the B2/CF01 combo. Tried the Kanas Pro last night and found out either the filter is clogged or they're perma-borked with a channel imbalance. I'll try to troubleshoot today.


I think BGGAR did review them. I saw a few videos pop up when I searched for Oracle reviews. Hadn't check them out yet though.


Yup.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

SemiAudiophile said:


> I think BGGAR did review them. I saw a few videos pop up when I searched for Oracle reviews. Hadn't check them out yet though.
> 
> 
> Yup.



Diamonds mean he recommends on a blind buy, so I guess that answers that. Tempted myself, but I've got so many neutral-tuned pairs at this point, I wouldn't mind something more fun.

Man, working with peroxide around my IEMs always gets a little stressful. Trying the non-destructive methods first...


----------



## michsu

Amazon deal of the day

Deal of the day: Samsung Galaxy Buds+ Plus, True Wireless Earbuds (Wireless Charging Case Included), Black – US Version https://www.amazon.com/dp/B083KVM9VW/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_glt_fabc_R3NFM02ZW1ZW72MRG3FE


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

Much better. Imbalance gone. KPs have been brought back to life!



Dang this CF01 just keeps surprising me. I'd have thought they were going to have a hard time with the Kanas Pro, but nope; gives them plenty of juice without skewing the original signature. This thing seems to have a current output that seriously belies its form factor.

You're certainly getting what you paid for, that's for sure. Me likey.


----------



## clerkpalmer

Fired up the creative BT-w3 with my iPhone and the pI7. What a cool little product even if it’s a bit fussy. Can definitely tell a bit of a difference between the codecs. AptxHD seems smoother, less compressed and things like cymbals sound more natural. The differences are slight but they are there. Not sure however if I could tell a difference between iOS AAC and AptxHD though.  In any event, I feel better knowing I have the best! 40 bucks well spent.


----------



## helmutcheese (May 20, 2021)

Well if AAC is still 250K in iOS (I ask as I do not know) like other non Apple device then it will sound worse (I do not believe the compression is that good) and nor would battery life be at 320k (CD quality).







FYI Win 10 (past 2 DEV builds) now supports AAC.

Can you really swap codes with a press of the button like they claim or does it not work i.e. the ear/headphones accept the change?

I have a few aptX Adaptive earphones now but nor my Android or PC support it.


----------



## tinyman392

helmutcheese said:


> Well if AAC is still 250K in iOS (I ask as I do not know) like other non Apple device then it will sound worse (I do not believe the compression is that good) and nor would battery life be at 320k (CD quality).
> 
> 
> 
> ...



We're in lossy territory right now.  So how the compression is done and more specifically what is tossed out is far more important than just the baseline bitrate.  For all intents and purposes AAC 256 is far superior to SBC.  Further the point, AAC 256 can be superior to APTX in certain circumstances while the opposite is true in others.  For a pretty rough example, AAC 256 is normally thought to be about equal in quality to MP3 320.


----------



## clerkpalmer

helmutcheese said:


> Well if AAC is still 250K in iOS (I ask as I do not know) like other non Apple device then it will sound worse (I do not believe the compression is that good) and nor would battery life be at 320k (CD quality).
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I’m a believer in high end codecs but bitrates do not tell the entire story when it comes to these things. Implementation matters and AAC over iOS is implemented very well. And then there’s the question of whether my ears can tell a difference. Many report AAC on iOS is audibly transparent. I will admit that LDAC and AptxHD sound better to me than SBC and Aptx but it gets much harder when AAC is involved.


----------



## helmutcheese (May 20, 2021)

That is why I mentioned it and added I doubt it is true but Apple will keep claiming so, AFAIR Nero had a modded version of AAC and it was good (long ago).

For my usage most are CD Rips so will only need aptX and if I am subbed again to Amazon HD aptX HD on PC (via transmitter similar to yours) and LDAC on Android, I know it is still being changed/compressed from one thing to another.

SBS was cut down to push aptX, it can do so much more.

*Example:*

CODEC Type: aptX, Sampling Frequency: 16/32/44.1/48kHz, Channel Mode: Stereo/Mono

*Example:*

CODEC Type: SBC, Sampling Frequency: 16/32/44.1/48kHz, Channel Mode: Mono/Dual Channel/Stereo/Joint Stereo, Block Length: 4/8/12/16, Subbands: 4/8, Allocation Method: SNR/Loudness, Min/Max Bitpool: 2/53


----------



## clerkpalmer

tinyman392 said:


> We're in lossy territory right now.  So how the compression is done and more specifically what is tossed out is far more important than just the baseline bitrate.  For all intents and purposes AAC 256 is far superior to SBC.  Further the point, AAC 256 can be superior to APTX in certain circumstances while the opposite is true in others.  For a pretty rough example, AAC 256 is normally thought to be about equal in quality to MP3 320.


AAC on iOS definitely sounds better to me than aptx. AAC on android sounds worse however. And both are noticeable.


----------



## helmutcheese (May 20, 2021)

That figures and makes sense.

Did you see my question about the Creative Codec Select function button?


----------



## miserybeforethemusic (May 20, 2021)

The other MMCX-2pin adapters finally showed up. For the BT adapter crew out there, figured it'd help if you saw a size comparison:






There's definitely a reason you're paying more for smaller connectors. Build quality is _not_ comparable and it really shows in the amount of extra space the cheaper adatpers require. Those OEs are deceptively small and it translates to a fantastic experience with the CF01. Not factoring in the length of the pins, they're literally half the size. Makes a huge difference in where the IEM falls in your ear, but having both types will allow me to tweak the fit of each IEM to my liking.


----------



## tinyman392

There are probably a lot of better metrics to use to compare codecs.  The best would likely be to compare the outgoing signal and compare it to what is expected of it.  If there was some way to capture the outgoing signal then uncompress it to the raw PCM, then you could compare it to the source and get a true metric that way.  For example, use a FLAC, ALAC, WAV, or other lossless format as input, send it through the BT pipeline, capture the output, decompress it.  It would be awesome to see the decompressed signal on the headphone itself, but that likely isn't possible. 

From there, you can compare the expected signal (lossless) to the output signal and compare them.  The problem now is how do we compare the signals.  Do we weight errors at say 1kHz less than errors at 20kHz?  How do we weight it, if at all?


----------



## SemiAudiophile

miserybeforethemusic said:


> The other MMCX-2pin adapters finally showed up. For the BT adapter crew out there, figured it'd help if you saw a size comparison:
> 
> 
> 
> There's definitely a reason you're paying more for smaller connectors. Build quality is _not_ comparable and it really shows in the amount of extra space the cheaper adatpers require. Those OEs are deceptively small and it translates to a fantastic experience with the CF01. Not factoring in the length of the pins, they're literally half the size. Makes a huge difference in where the IEM falls in your ear, but having both types will allow me to tweak the fit of each IEM to my liking.


Thanks for the comparison. Didn't realize how big those cheaper ones were. Glad I didn't get them from AE. 😅

I still notice some dropouts with the OE adapters though. Usually when I'm lying down and the MMCX will swivel around. When I'm sitting upright it's fine. 

Man I wish Fiio would make some swappable adapters like TRN did with the BT20S.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

Haven't had any dropouts or inadvertent rotations with the OEs and CF01; they lock on _very_ tight. Sorry to hear about the swivel issue. Have already found one of the cheaper connectors that's wired identically left-and-right (meaning if you tried to use them on a keyed IEM, you'd be out of phase).

Am I getting this right with the OE connector, btw? Seems like the outer ring is (+) and the inner core is ground. Might be messing that up, though. I usually let my ears figure it out, but feel really dumb for tossing this around in my head for this long.

There is a pretty significant size difference. I suppose it'll come in handy with some people's ears, especially when they just need that extra 5mm or so of distance. This is why I guinea pig stuff; so other people don't have to


----------



## SemiAudiophile

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Am I getting this right with the OE connector, btw? Seems like the outer ring is (+) and the inner core is ground. Might be messing that up, though. I usually let my ears figure it out, but feel really dumb for tossing this around in my head for this long.


Good question, I just assumed (+) meant right and (-) meant left. The other OE adapters had 'L' and 'R' written on them.


----------



## samandhi

bronco1015 said:


> I don't have a compatible headset or accessory of any kind to test this with, but in dev options LHDC is an optional codec to select on my mi Mix2S. It's below the LDAC playback options. But I didn't see Xiaomi on that list. Weird.


It is probably because LDHC is in fact open source. It is a good thing that even non HWA members are adopting it. I'm a bit jealous because my Deva support it, but I have to use the crappy Hifiman player to get it (which sounds great, but has no options). 


miserybeforethemusic said:


> Haven't had any dropouts or inadvertent rotations with the OEs and CF01; they lock on _very_ tight. Sorry to hear about the swivel issue. Have already found one of the cheaper connectors that's wired identically left-and-right (meaning if you tried to use them on a keyed IEM, you'd be out of phase).
> 
> Am I getting this right with the OE connector, btw? Seems like the outer ring is (+) and the inner core is ground. Might be messing that up, though. I usually let my ears figure it out, but feel really dumb for tossing this around in my head for this long.
> 
> There is a pretty significant size difference. I suppose it'll come in handy with some people's ears, especially when they just need that extra 5mm or so of distance. This is why I guinea pig stuff; so other people don't have to


If you are talking about the MMCX side, it is the other way around. It is Shell=Ground, and Tip=signal. The 2 pin should just be + for one side, and - for the other.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

samandhi said:


> If you are talking about the MMCX side, it is the other way around. It is Shell=Ground, and Tip=signal. The 2 pin should just be + for one side, and - for the other.


Funny enough, I have one L marking and no polarity markings that I can see on either OE adapter, so have to go off the MMCX side. This should help. Thanks!


----------



## samandhi

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Funny enough, I have one L marking and no polarity markings that I can see on either OE adapter, so have to go off the MMCX side. This should help. Thanks!


Oh. That kinda' sux! G'luck, hope you get the right sound?! I am sure with experimentation, your ears will come through for you in the end....


----------



## samandhi

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Funny enough, I have one L marking and no polarity markings that I can see on either OE adapter, so have to go off the MMCX side. This should help. Thanks!


It is possible that they picked two of the same type from the factory (that they have the same pinout and not inversed). You may have to do some surgery on one of them if you don't want to send it all the way across the world...

Be careful of the polarity, it COULD damage your drivers...


----------



## bronco1015

samandhi said:


> It is probably because LDHC is in fact open source. It is a good thing that even non HWA members are adopting it. I'm a bit jealous because my Deva support it, but I have to use the crappy Hifiman player to get it (which sounds great, but has no options).
> 
> If you are talking about the MMCX side, it is the other way around. It is Shell=Ground, and Tip=signal. The 2 pin should just be + for one side, and - for the other.


Dang. I go back and forth on buying the deva. This morning, i made a completely random impulse purchase, i owned one of these 4 years ago but it was stolen a while back. a V-Moda Forza Metalo wireless. pretty great detail retrieval imo, plus love how comfortable they were. I may regret this purchase when they get here though, but there are situations where I prefer a neckband. curious how they'll sound vs the AZ70, N6P, MTW2 and Bose QC buds. They were still better than my MTW1 i felt, but that was the only TWE i had that came close to them when they went missing.


----------



## samandhi

bronco1015 said:


> Dang. I go back and forth on buying the deva. This morning, i made a completely random impulse purchase, i owned one of these 4 years ago but it was stolen a while back. a V-Moda Forza Metalo wireless. pretty great detail retrieval imo, plus love how comfortable they were. I may regret this purchase when they get here though, but there are situations where I prefer a neckband. curious how they'll sound vs the AZ70, N6P, MTW2 and Bose QC buds. They were still better than my MTW1 i felt, but that was the only TWE i had that came close to them when they went missing.


They are well worth it (and actually more IMO). Do let us know how they sound. V-Moda was considered one of the best headphones to get for the fun side for many years. The only reason I never pulled the trigger then was because they were just too bass heavy for my tastes.


----------



## jsmiller58 (May 20, 2021)

Unfortunately my CA M5 TWS are likely on their way back to Amazon...  With my LG v30 while listening to Audible audiobooks or Tidal music the BT connection is great, but on phone calls the BT connection is very unstable.  But worse is the left earbud is no longer charging in the case...  sigh, great sound, poor quality...


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

jsmiller58 said:


> Unfortunately my CA M5 TWS are likely on their way back to Amazon...  With my LG v30 while listening to Audible audiobooks or Tidal music the BT connection is great, but on phone calls the BT connection is very unstable.  But worse is the left earbud is no longer charging in the case...  sigh, great sound, poor quality...


The MT still giving you grief? Sorry to hear, bud. Still waiting on a response from the CEO, but I did let him know some of us were still dealing with issues. Hopefully he'll reply back with some good news.


----------



## BooleanBones

Hi All,

First and foremost, thanks to all for all of the informative posts. I never post here as I don't have much in the way of valued input generally, so I typical just read. That being said, I thought I would give my thoughts on the B&W PI5s that I bought and received today. I purchased these in hopes of an improved music listening experience as my number one goal, but possibly for use in my home office for conference calls, etc. I use Air Pods Pro for that currently or an external BT speaker. Below is a summary of my initial tests:

Media player used - iPhone 12 Pro (I used this for neutrality across the headphones)
Earbuds used - Air Pods Pro, B&W PI5, B&O E8 v1, B&W PI3 (will explain non TWS below)
Songs used - No Light No Light-Florence and the Machine, Holloway Blvd-Pogues, Judith-Perfect Circle, Neon Moon-Brooks and Dunn, Flight Response-Days of the New

I will be honest, after listening to the first two songs across the three TWS sets, I put the Airpods and E8s away as there was really no comparison in the range and fullness with the PI5s. I then decided to break out the PI3s as a comparison set. The PI5s are actually very comparable in range and fullness to the PI3s to my surprise. I don't have the ear sensitivity as some of the audiophiles here, but I am quite impressed with the audio performance of these. 

Additional functionality thoughts
The ANC and ambient pass through are decent, but the Air Pods win this front so far. The PI5 case is very portable and has both wired/wireless charging ability, which works well. I have had no issues pairing the PI5s with my phone or my Sony MP so far. The case has a small button used for pairing new devices which is a bit hard to press if you have big fingers, but it works ok for me. In addition to sound quality, a big must for me was fit. The E8s left a bad taste in my mouth as they would pop out and are a bit clunky sitting in my ears. So far, the PI5s are very comfortable in my ears and do not feel like they are going to fall out every time I turn my head fast. They come with S/M/L tips, with the Large fitting me best and seating nicely. I will try and update as I use them more as some folks have had BT sync/drop issues with the higher end PI7s, but I have not as yet. I actually let the phone on my patio table and walked 20-25 feet away around the side of my house and no drops. Shout if you have any questions or want me to try something out.


----------



## AmericanSpirit (May 20, 2021)

clerkpalmer said:


> I’m a believer in high end codecs but bitrates do not tell the entire story when it comes to these things. Implementation matters and AAC over iOS is implemented very well. And then there’s the question of whether my ears can tell a difference. Many report AAC on iOS is audibly transparent. I will admit that LDAC and AptxHD sound better to me than SBC and Aptx but it gets much harder when AAC is involved.


I tested HD560S with various codec, and my impression was
LDAC SQ preferred mode>huge dynamic range illustration difference >AptX HD>SBC>AAC when using BTR5.  Not sure what bitrate is AAC on BTR5 though. AAC sounded very flat to me, like 192kbps .mp4


----------



## chinmie

bronco1015 said:


> there are situations where I prefer a neckband



i also found that in some scenarios neckbands are more preferable than TWS, because i can just take it off and let it hang (whereas with TWS i have to put them in my hand/pocket/case). but lately after getting earhook dongles like the BT20S, they kinda replaced the neckbands for that purpose, because i can also "take them off from my ear canal when i need it, but still letting it hang on my ears to still have a handsfree experience


----------



## jsmiller58

miserybeforethemusic said:


> The MT still giving you grief? Sorry to hear, bud. Still waiting on a response from the CEO, but I did let him know some of us were still dealing with issues. Hopefully he'll reply back with some good news.


I will try again tomorrow to see if I still have problems with phone calls...  As to charging, interestingly I find I can charge with the lid open...  strange...  I will give it another day.  But I love the sound, so if I return them it will be for a replacement set!


----------



## tma6 (May 21, 2021)

.


----------



## bronco1015

BooleanBones said:


> Hi All,
> 
> First and foremost, thanks to all for all of the informative posts. I never post here as I don't have much in the way of valued input generally, so I typical just read. That being said, I thought I would give my thoughts on the B&W PI5s that I bought and received today. I purchased these in hopes of an improved music listening experience as my number one goal, but possibly for use in my home office for conference calls, etc. I use Air Pods Pro for that currently or an external BT speaker. Below is a summary of my initial tests:
> 
> ...


----------



## bronco1015

chinmie said:


> i also found that in some scenarios neckbands are more preferable than TWS, because i can just take it off and let it hang (whereas with TWS i have to put them in my hand/pocket/case). but lately after getting earhook dongles like the BT20S, they kinda replaced the neckbands for that purpose, because i can also "take them off from my ear canal when i need it, but still letting it hang on my ears to still have a handsfree experience


That's true of those adaptors for sure. I don't have enough iems for one of those to be worth buying an adaptor for at the moment, though I am looking at a couple different iems for purchase.


----------



## bronco1015

samandhi said:


> They are well worth it (and actually more IMO). Do let us know how they sound. V-Moda was considered one of the best headphones to get for the fun side for many years. The only reason I never pulled the trigger then was because they were just too bass heavy for my tastes.


I will for sure. I had a pair of tru sounds like 10 years ago that were definitely on the fun side of the fence. I enjoyed them for that. The Metalo wireless is / was a different tuning for V-moda imo. Bass for example was tight and textured but not boomy at all. We'll see how my memory of the sound is though when they arrive.


----------



## slex

Interesting😁


----------



## clerkpalmer

slex said:


> Interesting😁



Yes indeed. Posted up thread a day or two ago.


----------



## slex

clerkpalmer said:


> Yes indeed. Posted up thread a day or two ago.


It will be great if its Hilby Music Player intergrated.😁


----------



## webvan

jsmiller58 said:


> Got mine today as well.  Not sure about the sound yet - a bit bright and also lacking body.  Have tuned the treble way down, the bass way up, and the mids just a little bit down.  ANC is decent, not great, but, well, earbuds...  was on calls for a few hours today with them.  No one complained about the call quality, but I should ask next time!  Will play with them some more.


Did you own the first generation ? Still my go to "all around" TWS when I need both SQ and Isolation (for SQ alone I pull out the L2Ps). Some reviewers are saying you can't turn ANC off which would be a problem when it's windy, maybe the "turn off noise cancellation/reduction" via Alexa would work like on the Gen 1 ?  I have "bigger ears" too and find that the larger form factor of the Gen 1 shell fits nicely in them


----------



## AmericanSpirit

slex said:


> Interesting😁



I’m not familiar with TWS, so Sony invented LDAC and they didn’t use LDAC for their TWS? Wow😂 
It will be interesting to see LDAC wireless
TWS from HiBy. Their wireless Research and Engineeonis top-notch. Not the IEM though, hope they tag up with one like Moondrop, just exactly like Moondrop Sparks. IEM by Moondrop, wireless tech by HiBy.


----------



## Caipirina

webvan said:


> Did you own the first generation ? Still my go to "all around" TWS when I need both SQ and Isolation (for SQ alone I pull out the L2Ps). Some reviewers are saying you can't turn ANC off which would be a problem when it's windy, maybe the "turn off noise cancellation/reduction" via Alexa would work like on the Gen 1 ?  I have "bigger ears" too and find that the larger form factor of the Gen 1 shell fits nicely in them


Based on your constant bringing up of the Echobuds G1 I finally, hopefully have them at least in country by now, but the friend who is bringing them is still in quarantine .. .hopefully by next weekend ...


----------



## webvan

Yeah, looks like you got a great deal on them. Other than the "sponsored" Tronsmart crappy/buggy TWS from last summer we've generally agreed on "good" ones, like the Sabbat X12, so hopefully the Echobuds v1 will work for you. Don't stop at the "subtle" effect of ANR, combined with the passive isolation it's still the best overall isolation I've gotten from any earbuds/headphones, just slightly ahead of the Sony XM3s when they were rammed in my ear canals (and quickly painful) and MTW2s.


----------



## Caipirina (May 21, 2021)

webvan said:


> Yeah, looks like you got a great deal on them. Other than the "sponsored" Tronsmart crappy/buggy TWS from last summer we've generally agreed on "good" ones, like the Sabbat X12, so hopefully the Echobuds v1 will work for you. Don't stop at the "subtle" effect of ANR, combined with the passive isolation it's still the best overall isolation I've gotten from any earbuds/headphones, just slightly ahead of the Sony XM3s when they were rammed in my ear canals (and quickly painful) and MTW2s.


your description keeps reminding me of how I feel about the Samsung G Beans ... I love their ANC / ANR because I get a great fit ... also a big ear guy ...
Glad I stumbled across that UK 60GBP deal .. this local shop is still trying to sell them for 200USD 

Now if I could finally make I my mind what ELSE I should get   Still torn between the MTW2 (best sound? 350$ here) or the Jabra Elite active 75t because now also ANC and better bass than the 85t, 'only' 200$ here, available only in this weird Sienna color ... or maybe the Anker Liberty Air Pro 2 (did I get the name right?) 130$ .. and stem based .. grrr ... i don't NEED another .. but i WANT ...  .. and way too long until I have a chance to get the Sony XM4 .. .or something exotic like the KEF Mu3  here


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

AmericanSpirit said:


> I’m not familiar with TWS, so Sony invented LDAC and they didn’t use LDAC for their TWS? Wow😂
> It will be interesting to see LDAC wireless
> TWS from HiBy. Their wireless Research and Engineeonis top-notch. Not the IEM though, hope they tag up with one like Moondrop, just exactly like Moondrop Sparks. IEM by Moondrop, wireless tech by HiBy.


I'm going to continue throwing a massive "buyer beware" regarding the WH2 after having bought the WH3 and basically feeling left behind. It doesn't matter so much when you're talking about $20-50 IEMs, but that was an almost $200 set of hybrid TWS that HiBy seems to have all but abandoned in development. I was on the fence about sending them back within the return window and now I wish I had. I would caution anybody considering the WH2 that you may end up similarly left behind when they decide to do the stereotypical Chi-Fi thing and just move onto the next bright and shiny thing instead of continue development on existing products.

Also, one of the major reasons LDAC _hasn't_ been in the TWS space yet is power management. It's not a very power-efficient codec and, at least in my experience, can be absolutely brought to its knees if you're attempting to run them off a host device that doesn't have a fast enough processor to handle the throughput.

I sincerely hope to be proven wrong about both points, but even in the short time I've been involved in the TWS space, really don't want to see this become the norm.


----------



## clerkpalmer

miserybeforethemusic said:


> I'm going to continue throwing a massive "buyer beware" regarding the WH2 after having bought the WH3 and basically feeling left behind. It doesn't matter so much when you're talking about $20-50 IEMs, but that was an almost $200 set of hybrid TWS that HiBy seems to have all but abandoned in development. I was on the fence about sending them back within the return window and now I wish I had. I would caution anybody considering the WH2 that you may end up similarly left behind when they decide to do the stereotypical Chi-Fi thing and just move onto the next bright and shiny thing instead of continue development on existing products.
> 
> Also, one of the major reasons LDAC _hasn't_ been in the TWS space yet is power management. It's not a very power-efficient codec and, at least in my experience, can be absolutely brought to its knees if you're attempting to run them off a host device that doesn't have a fast enough processor to handle the throughput.
> 
> I sincerely hope to be proven wrong about both points, but even in the short time I've been involved in the TWS space, really don't want to see this become the norm.


Appreciate the warning. That’s useful. It comes down to price to me. But if they are looking for )250 or more it may be a tough sell.  How is the sq on the wh3?  Looks like they are going on indiegogo first so who knows when they release. I hate crowdfunding. They claim “first LDAC tws” so that may mean the Sony will not have it.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic (May 21, 2021)

clerkpalmer said:


> Appreciate the warning. That’s useful. It comes down to price to me. But if they are looking for )250 or more it may be a tough sell.  How is the sq on the wh3?  Looks like they are going on indiegogo first so who knows when they release. I hate crowdfunding. They claim “first LDAC tws” so that may mean the Sony will not have it.


All claims should be treated as such unless verified. Might be the engineer in me speaking, but as someone who finally made it through ASR's massive thread on MQA (and watched it completely devolve), I figured it's worth mentioning. Totally understand some people buy according to their passions and I'm not trying to knock their hustle, but if I can save a few people from getting caught up in flavors of the week, then mission accomplished.

The WH3 are really, really interesting. In a sense, it's like you're getting several IEMs in one with the adjustable crossover. However, for a company that got its start with software, I think HiBy Blue is massively behind the curve in terms of usability and UI. It's not slick at all, but it is serviceable as long as you're willing to put in some work learning the UI yourself. While I don't regret the learning experience that purchase brought, I don't think it would win any awards, either. There's definitely a funky BA timbre which doesn't go away regardless of tuning and that DD can overwhelm quickly if you bank the crossover to the "Dynamic" end. Each adjustment to the crossover requires a mental adjustment as well because, ultimately, you're going to feel like something's missing from the signature. If, perhaps, they had allowed a slope adjustment _along_ _with _frequency adjustment, you could really dial this in.

Overall, it just feels like a rushed product; one in which I never could get UAT to function properly, even when I had the R5 Saber. It deeply concerns me that they'd rather just start over again instead of work on refining what they already have.

*WILD SPECULATION ALERT*

Now that it sounds like they're moving onto LDAC, I think HiBy themselves might be aware that UAT flopped and have resorted to coughing up the necessary cash for LDAC licensing. I imagine that the buyers will be absorbing some of that cost as well. What really baffles me, though, is how HiBy _had_ a BA-DD hybrid with the WH3, but are stepping down to either a single-DD or dual-BA arrangement with the WH2 (your choice as the buyer, according to the product literature). That's the only key difference I can see in topology between the WH2 and WH3. Honestly means I have no way of knowing what sort of SQ you should expect out of the WH2. I've heard good things about the Beans (not referring to the Samsung ones), but have never tried a pair myself.

_Edited- Had the WH2's driver arrangements backwards. Oops._


----------



## miserybeforethemusic (May 21, 2021)

Oh and hope I'm not getting ahead of myself, but it's been about 5 days since I put these guys on the charger:






Still 3 bars. Maybe they did fix the drain issue after all.


----------



## clerkpalmer

miserybeforethemusic said:


> All claims should be treated as such unless verified. Might be the engineer in me speaking, but as someone who finally made it through ASR's massive thread on MQA (and watched it completely devolve), I figured it's worth mentioning. Totally understand some people buy according to their passions and I'm not trying to knock their hustle, but if I can save a few people from getting caught up in flavors of the week, then mission accomplished.
> 
> The WH3 are really, really interesting. In a sense, it's like you're getting several IEMs in one with the adjustable crossover. However, for a company that got its start with software, I think HiBy Blue is massively behind the curve in terms of usability and UI. It's not slick at all, but it is serviceable as long as you're willing to put in some work learning the UI yourself. While I don't regret the learning experience that purchase brought, I don't think it would win any awards, either. There's definitely a funky BA timbre which doesn't go away regardless of tuning and that DD can overwhelm quickly if you bank the crossover to the "Dynamic" end. Each adjustment to the crossover requires a mental adjustment as well because, ultimately, you're going to feel like something's missing from the signature. If, perhaps, they had allowed a slope adjustment _along_ _with _frequency adjustment, you could really dial this in.
> 
> ...


The DD is probably the better based based on your description of the issues with the BA version. In any event, LDAC without solid tuning is really not much to go crazy over. This is probably the tip of the iceberg with LDAC though which is a good thing.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

clerkpalmer said:


> The DD is probably the better based based on your description of the issues with the BA version. In any event, LDAC without solid tuning is really not much to go crazy over. This is probably the tip of the iceberg with LDAC though which is a good thing.


For perspective, I currently have the crossover set at 2750Hz, which is only slightly to the right of the existing "Balanced" preset, but seems to be a little more friendly with my pinna gain. The problem is that DD gets overwhelming _fast_. I also don't understand what benefit the crossover is going to serve on a single-DD unit, but HiBy doesn't seem to differentiate.

I'm...cautiously optimistic about LDAC's success in the TWS space. Think we need to overcome some battery hurdles first, but I'd love to be proven wrong.


----------



## SemiAudiophile (May 21, 2021)

Speaking of $20 hybrid TWS, these came in today. Very minimal packaging. Basic set of tips and USB-C cable for charing.

The case itself is actually quite small and decent. About the same size as the CX400BT case but not quite as nice.

None of the stock tips had a great fit. Even with the largest tips the seal didn't feel that good. Using some backup large tips from the Earfun Free for now.

Sound seems pretty decent at first listen. A bit sibilant and bass light with stock tips. But once I got a better seal, it sounds a little more balanced. Definitely V-shape type of sound. Also, I can notice a noisy hissing sound when music is playing. Which can be expected I guess at this price point. It's not too bad but definitely noticeable.

I did notice some weird connection drops and sync issues? Battery was low so charging for now and see if it happens again. At 10% it will keep reminding you with a voice prompt that battery is low (in broken english). Which can be quite annoying and funny at the same time.

Edit: I guess it was on certain tracks. Don't really notice the hiss anymore. But the background definitely isn't as black or quiet as my other TWS. 

Touch controls are very sensitive.


----------



## mainguy (May 22, 2021)

So I've spent a good hundred hours or more with the PI7 in my ears, thought I'd give you guys some ideas, comparisons, maybe useful.

I currently own the Airpods Pro, which I have a/b with the PI7 on many, many occassions now, out of interest.
My last tws were the MW07+, which I recognised as flawed but still loved, and used for a long time.
I have owned the Senn Momentum 2 tws for a week.
My wired earbuds I've owned: Campfire Andromeda & RHA T20

So the PI7 sounds. Laid back, effortless yet powerful, they have a lot more oomph than the Airpods Pro and MW07+. I think I can say quite confidently that when played from an Aptx source the PI7 are considerably better in SQ than both the Airpods Pro and MW07+, which I personally set at a similar level to one another.

*Song comparisons*

Listening to Lana Del Rey & Aurora to test vocals/mids: PI7 mids are much more detailed, where the APP sounds flat, PI7 is fuller and more nuanced. Its night and day, PI7 produces vocals much better than the APP.

Electronic music, Grimes, Chemical Bros: APP gets really congested and loses control in My name is dark and busier tracks. PI7 maintains resolution and control

The only thing the APP win on is in some tracks they have a bit of a brighter, livelier sound, whereas the PI7 are darker. From an Iphone XS Max the Airpods are also louders.

***important*** PI7 are 15% quieter or so from an iPhone than an Aptx device. They also sound better from an aptx device, but its marginal.

*Vs MW07+*

Comparing MW07+ to PI7 (memory): Vocals were a bit grainy and strange on MW07+, PI7 blows them out of the water in this respect. Bass approach is very different, MW07+ has interesting bass, but I think PI7 is more controlled.

*VS Airpods Max*
These are my goto noise cancelling portable audio device. However, I've been using them less, and less with the PI7 in hand. The ANC on the APM is beyond compare, but I think the PI7 addresses two flaws of the APM: weak midrange, lack of musical nature, or 'warmth'. I find the PI7 sound a good deal better and my APM have been collecting some serious dust, sadly, as I find them insanely comfortable and convenient. But the sound just isn't there.

I tested the PI7 with an iPhone XS Max, an Xperia 1 ii, an iPad Pro and from the case. THe PI7 sounded the best from the case to iPad, then from the xPeria, last the iPhone.

*Conclusion*

These buds are superb, they're the second best IEMs I've tried. They're better than the RHA wired T20 by a good margin, at least from an Aptx source.
They're a LOT better than Airpods Pro & MW07+, there is no contest. Totally different leagues, to my ear. The other two have too many flaws to be considered seriously for audio imo, but the PI7 really do carve into wired audio quality, bettering the T20i to my ear which is a good wired IEM.


----------



## helmutcheese

I had P14's and the ANC was non existent as well as all same issue you can read from Amazon customers, I see the P17's do not have any way to pair to another device or power on/off without the case, deal breaker for me.


----------



## clerkpalmer

mainguy said:


> So I've spent a good hundred hours or more with the PI7 in my ears, thought I'd give you guys some ideas, comparisons, maybe useful.
> 
> I currently own the Airpods Pro, which I have a/b with the PI7 on many, many occassions now, out of interest.
> My last tws were the MW07+, which I recognised as flawed but still loved, and used for a long time.
> ...


Nice post. I agree. I have the MW07 Go here. I don’t bother with them. The APP are for phone calls only. Never music. The PI7 are superb and frankly worth every cent of you want the best sq available in a tws.


----------



## dweaver

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Oh and hope I'm not getting ahead of myself, but it's been about 5 days since I put these guys on the charger:
> 
> 
> 
> Still 3 bars. Maybe they did fix the drain issue after all.


I have gone for or 5 days several times any drain so maybe. Either that or its slower than that. Certainly not an issue I worry about anyway. Unlike the original MTW that would die consistently.


----------



## samandhi

helmutcheese said:


> I had P14's and the ANC was non existent as well as all same issue you can read from Amazon customers, I see the P17's do not have any way to pair to another device or power on/off without the case, deal breaker for me.


I hate to say it, but that describes a lot of today's TWS buds. There are very few that will allow pairing with more than one device. You have to power them off (or the BT transmitter on the device) and then pair them with another device. I would love to have this feature more also to be honest.

 There are quite a few that will "auto" power off after a time of no activity, but there is usually no way to manually power them down. This seems to be the trend in the TWS market. I would love to have some way to manually turn them off, but I don't really see that feature coming back.


----------



## helmutcheese (May 21, 2021)

I agree but have a few budget TWS that allow both paring and power on/off via their buttons (I do not carry the case with me) but they probably are forgetting and pairing each time.

The Anker Soundcore Liberty 2 Pro remember 8 devices.


----------



## samandhi

helmutcheese said:


> I agree but have a few budget TWS that allow both paring and power on/off via their buttons (I do not carry the case with me) but they probably are forgetting and pairing each time.
> 
> The Anker Soundcore Liberty 2 Pro remember 8 devices.


Still, that is pretty sweet on the feature side IMO. 

WOW! That is cool. It seems that for a time that was pretty much a standard feature with most BT devices, and it seems that lately that has gone away. Even a lot of newer BT speakers are that way. I still have the Jawbone Big Jambox and it pairs with a lot of different devices like that also.


----------



## TK33

helmutcheese said:


> I agree but have a few budget TWS that allow both paring and power on/off via their buttons (I do not carry the case with me) but they probably are forgetting and pairing each time.
> 
> The Anker Soundcore Liberty 2 Pro remember 8 devices.


PI7s do remember three devices and from the few days I had it, I thought that part worked pretty well.  You can also designate which device you want it to auto connect to when you take them out of the case, which I thought was pretty neat.  I wish it could pair with more devices but the fact that you can also use the case helps.  I personally dont mind using the case to power off (and recharge when not in use) and would rather have the buttons do something else but understand others may want to use theirs differently.  

What I really wish is that more TWS would allow you to chstomize buttons so we have options based on our personal preferences.  For example, I wish I could repurpose voice assistant for something else like ambient mode since I have never used, nor do I intend to use, the voice assistant function. I can barely get Alexa to do what I want at home (my three year old has an "Alexa voice" which is literally yelling at Alexa because he thinks that is how you are supposed to talk to Alexa).


----------



## helmutcheese (May 22, 2021)

Yea the P14's via the App let you pick a Primary and Secondary device (as they had Multipoint).

Powering on and off does not steal another setting as its normally a long press like 5+ secs on one or both buds (depending on model), obv you to need press both to power back on.

I cannot stand any buds that enter pairing mode every time you take them out the case or power on via buttons.


----------



## mainguy

TK33 said:


> PI7s do remember three devices and from the few days I had it, I thought that part worked pretty well.  You can also designate which device you want it to



This. My PI7 auto pair to my iPhone perfectly, ironically better than my app which occasionally don't pair. Pi7 do every time.

They're also paired To my iPad at the same the. No issues there.


----------



## CocaCola15 (May 22, 2021)

Have to agree with this review. I was a major fan of the original M1, but the M1+ goes it a bit better. I guess many don't care for the lack of ANC and the design, but to me, once you have them secured (I prefer the foam tips CA offers, which are the best I've ever used in terms of durability/fit) they are fantastic, especially for this price point. With both the MTs and the M1+, I honestly admit to being a Cambridge Audio addict. And yes, I see that What Hi-Fi? gets remunerated if someone buys gear through their site. Still feel the M1+ is a standout in the mid-price range.

https://www.whathifi.com/us/reviews/cambridge-audio-melomania-1-plus


----------



## BooleanBones

CocaCola15 said:


> I honestly admit to being a Cambridge Audio addict.



The best deal I have ever gotten on earbuds were Cambridge. For some reason they had the SE1s on sale for 20$, so I bought them for my wired travel buds. They don't appear to sell them now, not sure why.


----------



## SemiAudiophile (May 22, 2021)

Ok, so these actually sound pretty good with some modification and tweaking. Out of the box they have SUPER hot treble. Very spiky/splashy and uncontrolled. I found that using the comply ISO 400 tips have helped significantly tone down that hot treble. The complys actually fit pretty good with them, just a little loose and they fit in the case with them on. I think ISO 200 or 100 would be perfect. But even with the complys still find the treble spiky on certain tracks so I applied this W-shaped EQ.




I like to raise the lower mids a bit to give it a fuller sound while lowering the midbass to make it sound clearer. Then from there just lowering the treble peaks as I see fit. Even with this EQ applied I still find the treble to be spiky on certain tracks (usually pop recordings). But this has been sounding pretty good for the most part.

With this setup, I find them to be very fun, punchy,  engaging, and musical. I can listen to them for hours with enjoyment.

I would rank these a notch below the Tevi's/CX400BT and a couple notches below GT220. They have good detail but dont quite match the technicality, detail, resolution, and textures of the others.

They do sound better than the Earfun Free's. But I wouldn't replace them as my workout buds because the EFF's bass hits harder, has ipx7 rating, snugger fit, and actual buttons with volume control.

I think these are suitable and do a pretty decent job for watching movies/shows but could probably use some more bass. I also played some pubg mobile last night with high performance mode on and didn't notice any real lag, so I guess they could do gaming also.

One thing to note is these have VERY apparent BA timbre. I never quite understood BA timbre until I heard these. I've notice it on my other IEMs but it didn't really bother me. But these have really obvious timbre issues. Again it doesn't bother me that much but I can see how it might be bothersome to those who are sensitive and are looking for more realistic/natural sound.

Overall, I think these are a serviceable pair of TWS if you can get past the BA timbre and the treble peaks. They have very fun character similar to the KZ sound signature. I can see some instances where I would use them in my rotation. While they don't do anything particularly well, they are pretty good at a variety of things. A kind of jack of all trades, master of none.

Edit: I also haven't noticed any Bluetooth connection dropouts since yesterday.


----------



## eshepler

If they're the same price...Jabra Active 75t or 85t?


----------



## dweaver

Having a listen to my WF-XB700 and have to say they do have a nice sound. The bass is a bit over cooked but not by much and the vocals are pretty solid and maybe a bit forward. The treble is slightly grainy but have some grit which is a nice change up.

I really find them comfortable, if the upcoming WF-1000XM4 manage their comfort without the pull caused from the oversized design they will be Sony's most comfortable TWS.

Their biggest downside is the mic which picks up to much background noise, that and no app support for those that prefer that.


----------



## jambaj0e

I'm looking forward to the WF-1000XM4. I currently have the XM3 and it has always fallen out, but I found a way to keep it in by having the long end pointed more downward (4-5 o'clock position) vs horizontal. I'm pretty happy with now, especially since I've returned the Bowers & Wilkins PI7 which does sound well, but is a bit overboosted in the bass for pop/hiphop. That bass is tight and textured, though, just overboosted. The PI7's volume level is much, much lower than the XM3, however, so that was also a problem.

So now I'm going to stay with the XM3 in the meantime until the XM4 comes out in a few month.


----------



## jiddu

Does anyone here use a pair of IEMs with the neck wire and buttons on it?  I've had a torrid time figuring out what to get so I tried the Beats Flex and the sound is pretty MEH so I'm keeping them as a work pair.  The fad seems to be "truly" wireless but the wire really suits me, always hanging around my neck ready to go and I can't lose them lol.  I just would like to have decent sound though and the Beats Flex don't even sound as good as a $20 pair of wired AKGs that came with my phone.


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## AmericanSpirit (May 22, 2021)

Moondrop Sparks:
OOTB, this immediately become my favorite TWS over AirPods pro.
-Wide diffusion field
-cohesive overall tonality
-bright neutral with slight bass floor lifted, not harman level.
-3-4khz area is a bit bright with a good consequence of vocal transparency.
-Not offensive bright to my standard, it’s about same as Sennheiser’s HD560S class.
-For extra $5, you a nice leather case with 水月雨 Moondrop kanji icon.
-piano sounds very welcoming on Sparks. Especially nocturnal type slow and mellow one.
-comes variety of ear tips(regular silicone, bass boost thin skin, form, AND shorter tips)
-good deeper insertion to keep TWS stable, and this helps for smaller ears for the housing not directly interfering with ear.

Moondrop nailed it
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




Basically it’s about same price with Aria $80 vs Sparks $90+5 for leather case if you want.

Sound Quality wise Aria is on upper hand, but not very far, both has wide sound stage, tuned right, bass may sound a bit more engaging on Sparks with bass boost tips on.

Great for pops, with vocal focus, and inoffensive back stage music & good bass, it matches perfectly with pops /EDM.

Why would I choose Sparks over Airpods Pro? The bass, on AptX, with bass boost ear tips that came with Sparks, it’s a promising Oomph experience, not just ear canal, but inner nose also get a sense of bass resonance.


----------



## BooleanBones

jiddu said:


> Does anyone here use a pair of IEMs with the neck wire and buttons on it?  I've had a torrid time figuring out what to get so I tried the Beats Flex and the sound is pretty MEH so I'm keeping them as a work pair.  The fad seems to be "truly" wireless but the wire really suits me, always hanging around my neck ready to go and I can't lose them lol.  I just would like to have decent sound though and the Beats Flex don't even sound as good as a $20 pair of wired AKGs that came with my phone.


I use Bowers and Wilkins PI3s and I have been happy with them. The buds have magnets in them so that they can attach to each other when not in use. For the price, I have been happy with them. The PI4s are similar with some additional features, but have no experience using those. At the time when I bought my PI3s, folks were complaining about some issues, so I went with the model down. Good luck.


----------



## thimantha

Hi guys, 

I'm here after a long time because my trusty Haylou GT1 Plus finally died. What's new in the TWS scene? Any recommendations on what would be the best pairs to own under $100?


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## samandhi (May 22, 2021)

thimantha said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> I'm here after a long time because my trusty Haylou GT1 Plus finally died. What's new in the TWS scene? Any recommendations on what would be the best pairs to own under $100?


Not sure what type of sound signature you are after, but for about $20 more you can get the Cambridge Melomania Touch. At first they had some bugs, but CA has worked pretty hard (and about 4 firmware updates later) and gotten them to a really nice place. The sound is pretty fantastic, and hear-through mode works well, but there is no ANC.

Otherwise, I hear decent stuff about Soundpeats, Anker Soundcore Liberty Air 2, Edifier TWS1, Nuarl N6Pro, Fiil T1 Pro, etc...  Though I cannot vouch for any on that list except the Nuarl N6Pro. They don't have a ton of features, but sound really good if you like a neutral sound.

Edit: Oh and I have the Melomania Touch also, and I CAN vouch that they sound terrific!  And if those Haylou have the quality that is indicated by the collaberation with Xiaomi then they were probably pretty good. I still have my Xiaomi Piston 2, and they are STILL fantastic (though they are IEMs).


----------



## Caipirina (May 23, 2021)

thimantha said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> I'm here after a long time because my trusty Haylou GT1 Plus finally died. What's new in the TWS scene? Any recommendations on what would be the best pairs to own under $100?


Where do you get TWS these days in Sri Lanka? AliExpress stopped working for me, crazy shipping fees and takes forever, Daraz is full of fakes, and places like Tecroot, Lifemobile, Celltronics, Urban mainly sell brand name stuff above 100$
That being said, Tecroot has the Nuarl N6 mini, which I had my eyes on, but there is very little info to be found, other than Nuarl has a pretty decent reputation here ... they are 22.500Rs


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## tiagopinto (May 23, 2021)

jiddu said:


> Does anyone here use a pair of IEMs with the neck wire and buttons on it?  I've had a torrid time figuring out what to get so I tried the Beats Flex and the sound is pretty MEH so I'm keeping them as a work pair.  The fad seems to be "truly" wireless but the wire really suits me, always hanging around my neck ready to go and I can't lose them lol.  I just would like to have decent sound though and the Beats Flex don't even sound as good as a $20 pair of wired AKGs that came with my phone.



I still own my Jaybird Bluebuds X and they’re like that. I bought them in 2014 and they still work. I’d say, look at Jaybird. They still make that kind of neck wired iem with an in-line remote. Mine are from the few years they were independent. They were then bought by Logitech but the quality was not hindered at all. Obviously not an audiophile sound but still exciting for a workout. Beware of calls on Vista as they pick up a lot of surrounding noise. Don’t know about Tarah Pro but they look ok.
Although, nowadays, with the TWS offer you have, why would you wanna have a wire dangling around your neck? But if that’s your thing.


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## jant71 (May 23, 2021)

tiagopinto said:


> Although, nowadays, with the TWS offer you have, why would you wanna have a wire dangling around your neck?



Cause many like to just wear it like that and put it in. A case and taking in and out is not as fast and easy esp in summer with few or no pockets. Also that design is still better for reception than quite a few TWS models around. I have had several of both types and only two were zero dropouts with devices next to the body. Both were semi-wireless.

Heck, Aviot is releasing a new PNK triple hybrid version I might just try and get... https://aviot.jp/collaboration/we-bd21d-pnk/
Wish it would have ambient mode though. Few have ambient or hear through cause you can just take a side out and you don't have to hold it. My AT has it and I like it esp. since it has a button all by itself toward the bottom for hear through.


----------



## helmutcheese

And because he obv did not read this thread, since when are any TWS ideal or live up to claims?


----------



## tiagopinto

helmutcheese said:


> And because he obv did not read this thread, since when are any TWS ideal or live up to claims?



Oh, I read ALL of it. Believe me. I even offered him a choice to look into. Similar to what I even own. It’s just that I got used to TWS and don’t reach for the Bluebuds X that often anymore. And also because the sound quality I have in TWS surpasses the X. 

To each his own, if you wanna know someone who is democratic about each one’s choice, that’s me. I guess I was misinterpreted. 

Cheers all.


----------



## jant71

helmutcheese said:


> And because he obv did not read this thread, since when are any TWS ideal or live up to claims?



Still not sure if I like one style better than the other. I like both. I like it when they include a leash to convert into neck wearing but they don't make it work with the case so you have to remove the leash to fit them in the case again. If they have good battery life you can do both ways and ditch the case if you want. Though I would like to see more TWS with the Nuarl like rocker so volume up and down and play/pause can all be one press like you see on most semi-wireless.


----------



## samandhi

tiagopinto said:


> Oh, I read ALL of it. Believe me. I even offered him a choice to look into. Similar to what I even own. It’s just that I got used to TWS and don’t reach for the Bluebuds X that often anymore. And also because the sound quality I have in TWS surpasses the X.
> 
> To each his own, if you wanna know someone who is democratic about each one’s choice, that’s me. I guess I was misinterpreted.
> 
> Cheers all.





jant71 said:


> Still not sure if I like one style better than the other. I like both. I like it when they include a leash to convert into neck wearing but they don't make it work with the case so you have to remove the leash to fit them in the case again. If they have good battery life you can do both ways and ditch the case if you want. Though I would like to see more TWS with the Nuarl like rocker so volume up and down and play/pause can all be one press like you see on most semi-wireless.


That is why (IMO) that TWS BT adaptors are a great middle ground between both TWS and wireless BT. There are downfalls for them, but they help bridge the gap between both. They DO have some all new disadvantages of their own though. Like spending more money overall (more that likely), or not pairing very well with a certain IEM, and etc... But even headphone technology, that has been around for MANY years, is still not perfect. I don't believe any of the three things we are discussing will be perfect any time soon, or ever really. 

I have a friend that owns the Jaybirds, and really likes them a lot. For myself I don't like wireless BT. If I am forced to use BT it will be in the way of headphones, TWS, or TWS adaptors. But that is my opinion and I would never hinder or influence someone to get something they absolutely don't want. Hell, if you can make the ole' string and a can work without the string, knock yourself out.... 

I agree with having controls like what is on the Nuarls. I think more should be using it because touch is not quite there yet (for me anyhow). But I also like that they use the same controls on BOTH buds instead of splitting functions between the two. But, at the same time I don't mind the one button on each bud that Hifiman use on their TWS600. It is fairly intuitive, and not easy to accidentally do the wrong thing. 

Bose got the controls (almost) right on the Soundsport Free back in 2014. The only problem was that the buttons were TOO stiff, and not quite "clicky". So you could not always tell if you actually depressed the button until you hear whether the action was taken or not. But the layout was overall easy to use and made sense, and was REALLY hard to hit accidentally.


----------



## Dregur

Either I have the worst luck, or the Melomania Touch is one giant lemon. Once again, my earbuds stopped syncing to my phone, and the left earbud will now not turn on. The right one, after I tried factory resetting both of them at the same time, will not connect to my phone any longer. I'm once again returning them, and will not buy them again. 

This doesn't even count the countless connection issues while actually walking around with them.


----------



## tiagopinto

Dregur said:


> Either I have the worst luck, or the Melomania Touch is one giant lemon. Once again, my earbuds stopped syncing to my phone, and the left earbud will now not turn on. The right one, after I tried factory resetting both of them at the same time, will not connect to my phone any longer. I'm once again returning them, and will not buy them again.
> 
> This doesn't even count the countless connection issues while actually walking around with them.



Well, I have been praising them, because I love the sound and their convenience, for me unbeatable at their price point. But I must agree that these have been plagued with issues from the start. They were attentive and solved every initial issue with firmware. My first pair was (seriously) fine... until the left bud died after about four months of use. My second pair have been fine so far. But I understand the frustration. If I have another issue with them I just might return and not exchange them. Until then I’m loving the sound rendition over BT. Let’s hope they keep delivering.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

Just throwing my hat in the ring for the Galaxy Buds Pro. With a Samsung device (I have the S21U) that scalable codec is a miracle worker. The fit doesn't feel mega secure but it's a perfect seal for my ears, and my main qualm is that they're hard to adjust thanks to the touch controls. Other than that, I have to say I'm intensely impressed.


----------



## clerkpalmer (May 24, 2021)

M5 owners, are you using different tips? Seems like the shallow tips included are part of the design to ensure a flush fit. My right ear isn’t sealing with the M and the L was worse. Will these benefit from spin tips or final audio? I could try of course but I’m lazy so thought I’d ask here first.
Edit - looks like the traditional round tips for me better although they give up some soundstage to the flatter wider ones. Enjoying the Hartman tuned sq. Very different from the pI7. Fit is really nice.


----------



## jsmiller58

clerkpalmer said:


> M5 owners, are you using different tips? Seems like the shallow tips included are part of the design to ensure a flush fit. My right ear isn’t sealing with the M and the L was worse. Will these benefit from spin tips or final audio? I could try of course but I’m lazy so thought I’d ask here first.


I am using Azla SednaEarfit Crystal (ML size) tips on my M5, and they definitely give me a better seal than the stock tips.  I have found that tip choices are relatively limited with TWS earbuds since many will not allow the buds to fit into the charging cases.


----------



## clerkpalmer

jsmiller58 said:


> I am using Azla SednaEarfit Crystal (ML size) tips on my M5, and they definitely give me a better seal than the stock tips.  I have found that tip choices are relatively limited with TWS earbuds since many will not allow the buds to fit into the charging cases.


Thanks. I’ll pop on my final audio tips and see how things sound.


----------



## jsmiller58

clerkpalmer said:


> Thanks. I’ll pop on my final audio tips and see how things sound.


Good luck!


----------



## vitorherold

Hi guys! I'm new to the forum... while I'm not an audiophile, I do love HiFi.

Been looking for a good wireless IEM, main priority is *sound quality*. Will take it to the gym.

Don't have lots of gear, I mean, the best I owned were the Sennheiser HD598, B&O E8 and now a Dali iO-6.
I do know that I prefer natural sound signatures and good soundstage. I love the Dali, for example. Didn't like the E8 so much. Also, I'm just not so happy paying that much for wireless IEMs, considering there are some good cheaper alternatives.

Many people here talking about Cambridge Audio, so I just have a question, for those who had the opportunity to test both the CA MT and the CA 1 + (Plus):

*Is there a substantial difference in SQ, between these two*? Which one would you recommend? Also, *comparing to the CX400 BT*, which is roughly the same price now, would the Sennheiser perform better, regarding sound quality only?

Also, some people seem to recommend getting instead the Moondrop Aria and matching it with a BT adapter, but it seems that all these bt adapters are just expensive, and some deliver significant noise... for anyone who could help me on that, do you think it would be worth getting an *Aria + Adapter instead of the CA?*

BTW, I've looked into this forum and some others, but to this particular question, I didn't seem to find any answer. That's why I'm asking...

Thank you very much!


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

clerkpalmer said:


> M5 owners, are you using different tips? Seems like the shallow tips included are part of the design to ensure a flush fit. My right ear isn’t sealing with the M and the L was worse. Will these benefit from spin tips or final audio? I could try of course but I’m lazy so thought I’d ask here first.
> Edit - looks like the traditional round tips for me better although they give up some soundstage to the flatter wider ones. Enjoying the Hartman tuned sq. Very different from the pI7. Fit is really nice.


I tip-rolled for a little bit with the M5 and, like you, decided that I preferred the sound signature out of the flatter stock tips. Refreshing to not have to recommend an aftermarket option for a change, but these really seem to benefit from having effectively no nozzle past the mesh. The Final did something funky to the sound signature (in a not-very-quantifiable way). Eventually, I'll find the SpinFits, but they're apparently hidden very well.



vitorherold said:


> Hi guys! I'm new to the forum... while I'm not an audiophile, I do love HiFi.
> 
> Been looking for a good wireless IEM, main priority is *sound quality*. Will take it to the gym.
> 
> ...


Totally didn't realize Dali had headgear now. Have an Oberon 1 running as a dedicated center in the HT. That SUB-9 is pretty punchy for its size, too.

More directly to your question, while I don't have a M1+ to compare against, I'd be willing to say that it's a complete toss-up between the MT and ADV M5-TWS in terms of what I think is the most ideal "gym" headphone. The MT will have the benefit of HearThrough, which works well for some here, but I personally haven't found an implementation from any TWS manufacturer that I find...usable. They're nice-to-haves, but all have either just a little bit of perceivable lag or they just don't sound natural to me. Your experience might differ; I'm just saying I probably wouldn't make it a must-have feature. I also believe the M1+ might be more stable as a daily driver compared to the MT and M5. The M5 has pretty abysmal BT range, but as long as you're within line of sight at the gym, I think you'll be fine. The MT seem to be plagued with either not charging within the case or losing connection over time.

Regarding how they'd perform relative to the CX400BT, it depends on what you'll be primarily listening to; I think they're phenomenal on male/female vocals, but they're way too uncomfortable for me to consider using them as a gym set. The MT, at least in my opinion, has a more capable tuning between the two. I'll let the M1+ owners share their own experiences.

If you're looking for something that's not as excellently-tuned (but only marginally so IMO), but more than makes up for it with the included features, I still recommend the Jabra Elite Active 75t with either the Final TWS or EPro TW00 tips; nothing else is going to transition as well from the gym to WebEx/Zoom stuff. If you decide to go this route, just buy refurbished from their official Jabra store; I've bought two sets from them that way and both have been rock-solid stable.

Either way, welcome to Head-Fi and sorry about your wallet


----------



## clerkpalmer

miserybeforethemusic said:


> I tip-rolled for a little bit with the M5 and, like you, decided that I preferred the sound signature out of the flatter stock tips. Refreshing to not have to recommend an aftermarket option for a change, but these really seem to benefit from having effectively no nozzle past the mesh. The Final did something funky to the sound signature (in a not-very-quantifiable way). Eventually, I'll find the SpinFits, but they're apparently hidden very well.
> 
> 
> Totally didn't realize Dali had headgear now. Have an Oberon 1 running as a dedicated center in the HT. That SUB-9 is pretty punchy for its size, too.
> ...


These seem to sound much better with the flat tips. Less congested and in your head. Fit is ever so slightly off in my left ear.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

clerkpalmer said:


> These seem to sound much better with the flat tips. Less congested and in your head. Fit is ever so slightly off in my left ear.


Is the tip rolling over/breaking seal or is it just loose? I do wish the tips went up in size just a little more on those fwiw.


----------



## clerkpalmer

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Is the tip rolling over/breaking seal or is it just loose? I do wish the tips went up in size just a little more on those fwiw.


I’m struggling with the medium and large. It’s creating a weird channel imbalance perception. Medium seems best.  Seems to get deeper and seal better. The real test will be on the bike this evening. But these sound really nice and are a great complement to the Warmish PI7.  A little bright maybe but not in a bad way.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

clerkpalmer said:


> I’m struggling with the medium and large. It’s creating a weird channel imbalance perception. Medium seems best.  Seems to get deeper and seal better. The real test will be on the bike this evening. But these sound really nice and are a great complement to the Warmish PI7.  A little bright maybe but not in a bad way.


I think that brightness also calms down over time, but treble is certainly more present than your typical TWS signature.

I honestly had to step up to the flatter tips in large based on my ear shape. Have had to do the same for a couple other pairs, including the CX400BT and AZ70W, so not that much of an anomaly. Hope you manage to get it figured out and fingers crossed they stay in for the bike ride. I've found passive isolation is absolutely fantastic, so I can imagine you'll appreciate that aspect while on the road.


----------



## BigZ12

iOS/tvOS 14.6 out.
When will we see Apple Music Hi-Fi/Atmos, the new Beats TWS (really curious about those) and possibly some new Airpods or other in-ears/headsets?


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

Received a rather lengthy response from James (Cambridge CEO) today. Please see below (inside the spoiler):


Spoiler: Email from James (Cambridge)










Tl;dr - Sounds like James would be willing to do a Q&A of sorts with the group here as long as his schedule permits. I can imagine the guy is pretty busy, so it's pretty awesome he's willing to spend that time with us. Also looks like there will be a new firmware/app coming around the bend.

Other point to extract: maybe it's the apps that take "exclusive control" of your audio device that are causing these issues, at least with the OnePlus 8T. Something about the way the audio stream is going to the MTs may not be registered as an audio signal, therefore causing the timeout. Additional problems may be, as I previously suspected, a result of the Snapdragon 865 included with the 8T. I'll have to perform more testing with the Pixel 3a, both with standard apps and UAPP/Neutron to confirm.

@Darkestred can you check his response and see if it answers your question or we need additional info?


----------



## SomeGuyDude

BigZ12 said:


> iOS/tvOS 14.6 out.
> When will we see Apple Music Hi-Fi/Atmos, the new Beats TWS (really curious about those) and possibly some new Airpods or other in-ears/headsets?


We'll be seeing HiFi in June, but keep in mind that even if one were to buy into the idea of lossless being audible to begin with, it ain't gonna be audible via Bluetooth for any number of reasons, the least of which being there are no codecs that can go full 1411kbps, and certainly not with any stability. 

That said, I'm 100% getting my Apple Music lossless just because of the satisfaction of knowing there's as little compression as possible. I'm a firm believer in removing bottlenecks whenever it's not too much of a hassle, and getting an upgrade to lossless for free definitely counts as "not a hassle."


----------



## miserybeforethemusic (May 24, 2021)

SomeGuyDude said:


> We'll be seeing HiFi in June, but keep in mind that even if one were to buy into the idea of lossless being audible to begin with, it ain't gonna be audible via Bluetooth for any number of reasons, the least of which being there are no codecs that can go full 1411kbps, and certainly not with any stability.
> 
> That said, I'm 100% getting my Apple Music lossless just because of the satisfaction of knowing there's as little compression as possible. I'm a firm believer in removing bottlenecks whenever it's not too much of a hassle, and getting an upgrade to lossless for free definitely counts as "not a hassle."


Not sure if others are aware, but rumor is Amazon upped the ante and has made AmazonHD a Prime-included feature. I don't know if you get the same library as their standard subscription service, but that'll be another potential option and most people already have a Prime sub. Still holding out hope for Spotify Lossless; if they can roll that out properly, I'm more than fine staying on Redbook for all my listening. Would love to see any of them design their own audio driver (a la UAPP/Neutron), though. Android's SRC is a problem child.

I'll be grabbing it for myself, I suppose. Wonder if any of my playlists from the trial are still there...

Oh and might as well include a source:
https://www.businesswire.com/news/h.../Amazon-Music-HD-For-All-Now-at-No-Extra-Cost
https://www.thesun.co.uk/tech/15001815/amazon-music-hd-free/

_Edit: _Just checked...you at least need an Amazon Music sub; someone merely jumped the gun. Guess it was too good to be true.


----------



## vitorherold

miserybeforethemusic said:


> I tip-rolled for a little bit with the M5 and, like you, decided that I preferred the sound signature out of the flatter stock tips. Refreshing to not have to recommend an aftermarket option for a change, but these really seem to benefit from having effectively no nozzle past the mesh. The Final did something funky to the sound signature (in a not-very-quantifiable way). Eventually, I'll find the SpinFits, but they're apparently hidden very well.
> 
> 
> Totally didn't realize Dali had headgear now. Have an Oberon 1 running as a dedicated center in the HT. That SUB-9 is pretty punchy for its size, too.
> ...


Quick reply! Extremely helpful! I am going to think about that, thanks!

Btw, about the Dali's, they are great! Really accurate, but quite musical at the same time. The soundstage, the mids, overall tone, details... just superb. 
Have tried some other BT Headphones, this is by far my favourite, highly recommended.

It would be great if they produced some tws with the same quality.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

vitorherold said:


> Quick reply! Extremely helpful! I am going to think about that, thanks!
> 
> Btw, about the Dali's, they are great! Really accurate, but quite musical at the same time. The soundstage, the mids, overall tone, details... just superb.
> Have tried some other BT Headphones, this is by far my favourite, highly recommended.
> ...


Probably will with enough time; KEF/B&O/B&W already proved the concept.

And no problem! My ultimate goal is to reduce as much wasteful spending as possible...but not from my wallet. I don't mind being a guinea pig


----------



## Darkestred (May 24, 2021)

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Received a rather lengthy response from James (Cambridge CEO) today. Please see below (inside the spoiler):
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Email from James (Cambridge)
> ...



Thank you for this Misery.

I havent been using my MTs as much, lately.  No particular reason.  I own a pet services business and its important that i am available for when my phone rings.  So for the few weeks prior to the latest update they were with me all day.  I never had any issues with pops or shutdowns until the latest firmware.  The only real issue i have had is the actual BT strength relative to where i am against a fixed location of my phone.  Although annoying, i have said for what i do its not a deal breaker cause the phone is always on me in most cases or a few feet away with no obstructions.

However, the whole shutdown and reconnecting has never happened before and i have not had them on for 3+ hours after the update and yet it has happened within 15 minutes on the latest firmware.  I have had them connected for 3+ on the previous firmware for several hours playing music, pausing, playing music, pausing for long periods, taking a phone call etc.  But never an issue...


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

Darkestred said:


> However, the whole shutdown and reconnecting has never happened before and i have not had them on for 3+ hours after the update and yet it has happened within 15 minutes on the latest firmware.  I have had them connected for 3+ on the previous firmware for several hours playing music, pausing, playing music, pausing, taking a phone call etc.  But never an issue...


And I don't blame you for a second. Really hoping the new firmware/app corrects some of this.

I'll continue to test once I'm out of these meetings. Want to confirm this isn't something isolated to a third-party app; wouldn't be fair to blame Cambridge if it's something caused by an app bypassing Android's SRC (which could, theoretically, _not_ be reported to the MTs as an audio stream).


----------



## Darkestred

miserybeforethemusic said:


> And I don't blame you for a second. Really hoping the new firmware/app corrects some of this.
> 
> I'll continue to test once I'm out of these meetings. Want to confirm this isn't something isolated to a third-party app; wouldn't be fair to blame Cambridge if it's something caused by an app bypassing Android's SRC (which could, theoretically, _not_ be reported to the MTs as an audio stream).



Yeah.  I mean, i dont know.  I'm on a note 10+ and never had any issues with any TWS, prior.  Good deal.  Thank you for your service!!!

I will say its possible Android 11 has something to do with it.  I do get late notifications sometimes but i was on 11 before the update.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

Darkestred said:


> Yeah.  I mean, i dont know.  I'm on a note 10+ and never had any issues with any TWS, prior.  Good deal.  Thank you for your service!!!
> 
> I will say its possible Android 11 has something to do with it.  I do get late notifications sometimes but i was on 11 before the update.


I think it's a Qualcomm thing, bud. I've got the 865, you the 855. Newer silicon, not fully tested, surely such a thing has never happened before? That's why I said I'd test it on the Pixel 3a. I lose TWS+, but at least it's running a 600-series processor.

And, yes, Android 11 may be part of the reason why. Looks like the OnePlus 7/7T folks got an update today; hopefully means the 8 and newer crowd will be falling shortly after.


----------



## DJ XtAzY

Darkestred said:


> I was a bit hesistant to update to this since my MT's have been working fine but now i have had some odd issues with this update.  I've had no music or anything play through them...had to re-pair.  I've had them randomly power off and ive had the music cutoff and nothing played.  Had to once again re-pair.
> 
> Could just be me but will need to see if i can reset them.  Havent done much looking in the app.  Guess i will start today.





DJ XtAzY said:


> I had this issue too, where the music stops playing and then it starts playing again later. I'm not sure if there's a reason behind this, but I noticed this happens when the battery life between the buds are like 10%+ apart. For example, with both my buds at 100%, let's say my phone connects to the right bud first. Usually I will see the battery drains slightly faster than the left. After an hour of playing music or so, let's just say my left bud is now at 87% and my right one is at 74%. My music randomly stops without warning and I can see that my phone and the buds are no longer paired. Eventually I will get a message from my left bud saying that it's connected again. Now I slowly see the battery drainage of the left one catching up to the right one.  So yea I'm not sure if that's the reason for the disconnect, and it is just an observation.







It definitely made sense now, so I guess my statement from weeks ago was "sort" of correct, but I swear it was not 3+ hours. Felt more like 2 (or even less).


----------



## Darkestred (May 24, 2021)

Its possible but still wouldnt explain why it never happened before the update.  One could say i didnt have the old firmware for very long but i also encountered multiple poweroffs and disconnect/reconnect rather quickly on the new firmware.

Now, its possible you could be correct that older (qualcomm) chipsets are running into issues with new tweaks done down the line.

would be cool if they allowed rolling back regardless of bug fixes.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

Darkestred said:


> Its possible but still wouldnt explain why it never happened before the update.  One could say i didnt have the old firmware for very long but i also encountered multiple poweroffs and disconnect/reconnect rather quickly on the new firmware.
> 
> Now, its possible you could be correct that older (qualcomm) chipsets are running into issues with new tweaks done down the line.
> 
> would be cool if they allowed rolling back regardless of bug fixes.


I mentioned that as well, especially given cases like mine where it's possible one of the firmwares is corrupted. An ability to roll back the driver would be a godsend in cases like mine.

But I just got them to shut down while paired to the Pixel 3a using UAPP, so I can at least get the problem to reproduce on more than one device. Blows my theory about the 800-series processors being the culprit to smithereens.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Not sure if others are aware, but rumor is Amazon upped the ante and has made AmazonHD a Prime-included feature. I don't know if you get the same library as their standard subscription service, but that'll be another potential option and most people already have a Prime sub. Still holding out hope for Spotify Lossless; if they can roll that out properly, I'm more than fine staying on Redbook for all my listening. Would love to see any of them design their own audio driver (a la UAPP/Neutron), though. Android's SRC is a problem child.
> 
> I'll be grabbing it for myself, I suppose. Wonder if any of my playlists from the trial are still there...
> 
> ...


Yeah, I have Amazon Music (3mo trial) and HD is bundled in. If you're going for it just for the purposes of listening to albums (meaning you're not planning on using a ton of discovery features) it's honestly a no-brainer because it's only $7.99/mo so well cheaper than the rest. Their Ultra HD is like 3100kbps or something silly like that and the regular HD is somewhere in the 800s so no matter what you're doing good. 

The only major downside to Amazon, to me, is that you can't transfer playlists from other services to them. That's a big problem because I tend to pick my favorites on Spotify/Tidal/etc and then export them via Soundiiz to each other, so not having ANY of my playlists really sucks.


----------



## clerkpalmer

Well the good news is the M5 is awesome for cycling. Very little wind noise. At the last minute I switched to the SednaEarfits someone recommended up thread. Very grippy. Sound signature changed a little bit not by much. The bad news is the tips don’t fit in the case. Bummer. I guess you can’t have it all.


----------



## CocaCola15

vitorherold said:


> Hi guys! I'm new to the forum... while I'm not an audiophile, I do love HiFi.
> 
> Been looking for a good wireless IEM, main priority is *sound quality*. Will take it to the gym.
> 
> ...


Well, I may be one of the few people here who own both the M1+ and the MT. I was an early adopter and fan of the M1 (gave it to a good friend). Upgraded to M1+ but not before I bought the MTs. I had to get a second pair of MTs, with the early issues around the functionality. But they are fine now, ended up with white after first ordering black. Saved $20 on rebuy, as the price dropped from $149 to $129.

My take is I remain to own both the CA TW phones. They are both fantastic for the price, with very different form factor. It's like owning two bottles of a fine wine, both are fantastic but different. Honestly, while it would seem the later model, the MTs, would be superior, but not the case. In fact, I favor the M1+ over the MTs for a couple of reasons. One is while the both sound great, I tend to listen to the M1+ more often. If I am sitting around at home, or outside but not mobile, I do like to pop in the MTs. But if I am going for a walk, etc., then the M1+ is preferred.

Why? It's all about the form factor. The MTs are nice, but hard to fit sometimes, take a bit of fiddling to get them to be in the right place for optimal sound. The M1+, not the case. I much prefer the OEM  foam tips on the M1+ (MTs don't really have an OEM foam option), which not only offer a great seal without making the sound too dark, but last forever and are cheap ($10 for 5 pair on Amazon). Very durable, and comfortable. Also, I am a fan of the tactile click input on the M1+ compared to the touch input of the MTs. I know another HF member from the UK who owns the original M1s and also much prefers the foam option. So I am not alone.

For some reason, the M1+ has not gotten much play/exposure hereabouts, and it's a shame. No, they are not a slick style, but once in place, they don't budge, seal out sound (no need for ANC), and sounds awesome. Weirdly, I love them without EQ. Then, CA gave buyers their MT app to use with the M1+ (nice). But this is crazy, but I use an EQ app called Kaiser Audio ($10 app) and it has a preset called iTunes Perfect, and they are in fact, perfect for the M1+.  I know, it sounds crazy, but it just works.

So which one would I keep? The M1+, for the sound, comfort, durability (built like a tank) and the fact I now own enough foam tips for the rest of my life! Kidding. But either one is very good. I am keeping both.

Can't speak for several of the brands here, but I have owed Senns, Sonys, Jaybirds, Nuarl, Jabra and other highly respected TW phones, and I returned to the CAs. Price to performance is very hard to beat.


----------



## jsmiller58

clerkpalmer said:


> Well the good news is the M5 is awesome for cycling. Very little wind noise. At the last minute I switched to the SednaEarfits someone recommended up thread. Very grippy. Sound signature changed a little bit not by much. The bad news is the tips don’t fit in the case. Bummer. I guess you can’t have it all.


Are you using the Crystal version?  Those fit in the case better than the regular Sednas, at least for me, since the Crystals are shorter than the usual Sednas.  I use the ML size, but still have to jostle the IEMs to get them to make contact in the case.  Pretty sure the L size would be too big.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

jsmiller58 said:


> Are you using the Crystal version?  Those fit in the case better than the regular Sednas, at least for me, since the Crystals are shorter than the usual Sednas.  I use the ML size, but still have to jostle the IEMs to get them to make contact in the case.  Pretty sure the L size would be too big.


He's talking about the M5, not the MT. There's effectively no clearance for aftermarket tips in the M5's case. You can fit them on top, at least. Just not attached.


----------



## jsmiller58 (May 25, 2021)

miserybeforethemusic said:


> He's talking about the M5, not the MT. There's effectively no clearance for aftermarket tips in the M5's case. You can fit them on top, at least. Just not attached.



Wouldn’t be the first time I was confused, but I think I’ve got it right this time   The Crystals work because, unlike other tips, they are very short.  They are wide and hence why they sometimes require a bit of gentle coaxing to enable a solid connection for charging.  Still they grip great and thus feel much more secure, for me.

I did try these on the MT as well... a no go as I recall.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

jsmiller58 said:


> Wouldn’t be the first time I was confused, but I think I’ve got it right this time   The Crystals work because, unlike other tips, they are very short.  They are wide and hence why they sometimes require a bit of gentle coaxing to enable a solid connection for charging.  Still they grip great and thus feel much more secure, for me.
> 
> I did try these on the MT as well... a no go as I recall.


Well I'll be. I almost bought a set of these tips this weekend and passed on 'em. Sorry for the mix-up!


----------



## jsmiller58 (May 25, 2021)

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Well I'll be. I almost bought a set of these tips this weekend and passed on 'em. Sorry for the mix-up!


No problem!  I got them since I wasn’t altogether happy with some of the stock tips.  So far happy with them, but they are pricey and due to the grippy nature of the material they don’t provide a good in ear fit if they are even a bit too big...  learned this the hard way with normal Sedna tips so I know the Sedna size that works best for me.  They are available in multi-size packs, but they are very pricey to order one of those packs just to see the size that works best


----------



## bladefd

jsmiller58 said:


> No problem!  I got them since I wasn’t altogether happy with some of the stock tips.  So far happy with them, but they are pricey and due to the grippy nature of the material they don’t provide a good in ear fit if they are even a bit too big...  learned this the hard way with normal Sedna tips so I know the Sedna size that works best for me.  They are available in multi-size packs, but they are very pricey to order one of those packs just to see the size that works best


Are you using Sednaearfit light or the normal Sednaearfit? I thought about getting the light version, but I don't know if I want to risk it if it doesn't fit the MT.

I am probably going to rma the MT, but I want to wait for the new firmware releasing in early June before I rma it. Still having charging problems and issue with volume dropping in half on initial playing. Dealing with it for now - tried cleaning the pins with a q-tip as miserybeforemusic suggested and factory resetting buds several times, but to no avail. Charging is hit-or-miss for me.


----------



## jsmiller58 (May 25, 2021)

bladefd said:


> Are you using Sednaearfit light or the normal Sednaearfit? I thought about getting the light version, but I don't know if I want to risk it if it doesn't fit the MT.
> 
> I am probably going to rma the MT, but I want to wait for the new firmware releasing in early June before I rma it. Still having charging problems and issue with volume dropping in half on initial playing. Dealing with it for now - tried cleaning the pins with a q-tip as miserybeforemusic suggested and factory resetting buds several times, but to no avail. Charging is hit-or-miss for me.


Neither of those.  The Crystal are newly released version of the Sednas.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B08TWG15ZN/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o03_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1


----------



## BigZ12 (May 25, 2021)

Sennheiser Smart Control app just updated on my iPhone.
One of the updates specified is: Support for upcoming products.
Anyone heard which products this could be? MTW3?


----------



## clerkpalmer

jsmiller58 said:


> Neither of those.  The Crystal are newly released version of the Sednas.
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B08TWG15ZN/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o03_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1


Using the Sednas in my M5 but just ordered the crystals too.


----------



## senorbroom

BigZ12 said:


> Sennheiser Smart Control app just updated on my iPhone.
> One of the updates specified is: Support for upcoming products.
> Anyone heard which products this could be? MTW3?


Someone posted a link earlier in the thread to an updated CX model with waterproof rating and longer battery.


----------



## TK33

senorbroom said:


> Someone posted a link earlier in the thread to an updated CX model with waterproof rating and longer battery.


Thought the new one was already out though? (Getting my hopes up)


----------



## vitorherold

CocaCola15 said:


> Well, I may be one of the few people here who own both the M1+ and the MT. I was an early adopter and fan of the M1 (gave it to a good friend). Upgraded to M1+ but not before I bought the MTs. I had to get a second pair of MTs, with the early issues around the functionality. But they are fine now, ended up with white after first ordering black. Saved $20 on rebuy, as the price dropped from $149 to $129.
> 
> My take is I remain to own both the CA TW phones. They are both fantastic for the price, with very different form factor. It's like owning two bottles of a fine wine, both are fantastic but different. Honestly, while it would seem the later model, the MTs, would be superior, but not the case. In fact, I favor the M1+ over the MTs for a couple of reasons. One is while the both sound great, I tend to listen to the M1+ more often. If I am sitting around at home, or outside but not mobile, I do like to pop in the MTs. But if I am going for a walk, etc., then the M1+ is preferred.
> 
> ...


Extremely insightful! Thanks for your help! I think I am going with the CA 1+. If it sounds that good, then price to performance is great, indeed.

I prefer foam tips as well, at least, with every iem I had. They just to work better for me. So if I get some, in the box, that's a plus.

Thanks!


----------



## CocaCola15 (May 25, 2021)

vitorherold said:


> Extremely insightful! Thanks for your help! I think I am going with the CA 1+. If it sounds that good, then price to performance is great, indeed.
> 
> I prefer foam tips as well, at least, with every iem I had. They just to work better for me. So if I get some, in the box, that's a plus.
> 
> Thanks!


I hope you will be happy with them. I just find them to be true road warriors, built like a tank, and excellent SQ. Check the online reviews of the M1+, too. Not just my POV. Not a fashion plate TW phone, but I could care less. And as I said, the foam tips are durable and Amazon.com has them if you need extras. I bought 10 pair, cost $20. They are only medium and small, which is odd. But both actually work for me (I bought medium from Amazon).


----------



## jant71 (May 25, 2021)

So, I got my pair of CCA CC1 TWS today. I think they are fine for the $21 I paid for them. Case is a decent size but pretty bland and a little plasticky. Don't like the USB C on the bottom or the LED being inside so it has to be open to see the battery gauge which is red/greed one light and not a four quarter dots type. Seem to act a little funny when inserting into the case at times.  Twice so far the R side was blue in the case and not sure if you can't touch them cause they will turn on or what when docked. Touch control can be accidentally pressed but you can put them in, take out and adjust fit without ever setting it off.

Sound is pretty good but I think they deserve some run in to see what the dynamic ends up as. Soft tips(like the stock pairs) will give the treble some peakiness but the treble is fine if you have a good seal. Some good air and stage with decent extension to the ends. Detail is okay and would be nice if the dynamic shows more after some run in. Nice if a bit better but will never be amazing.

Compared to my other recent budget pair, the JVC HA-A8T, they are not as good. JVC are list price of $40 but should be $30 real soon so a similar price range to the $29 CC1. You get a better looking case that has sturdier plastic and the buds are easier to take out. You have four blinking dots to gauge the charging with the lid closed. The JVC have buttons and do control volume which the CC1 leave out. Neither has ambient but the JVC are Earpod like so you can hear through them if you pause. This also gives them an airy sound. Bass quality is nice on the JVC and doubt the CC1 will ever get that good. Both are SBC only but the JVC seems to be good on detail and resolution w/o aptX. Also the battery life at 6 hours vs 4 wins for the JVC. The CC1 are a little lighter and have no stem on them so a win there. The CC1 have more volume headroom and seem easy to drive using low 80's on the volume for me while the JVC approach 130 on the volume. CC1 will win for sealing out noise of course. CC1 wins for USB C. Both earphones have Asian accents but the CC1 is worse. Connected is announced like Connect-ade just like Gatorade. 

I jumped on board for the $21 but even after quite a few KZ/CCA TWS models it seems they still have catching up to do even vs. budget stuff. They would make a nice gift for the normals but not so much for a discriminating Head-fier.


----------



## SemiAudiophile

jant71 said:


> Both earphones have Asian accents but the CC1 is worse. Connected is announced like Connect-ade just like Gatorade.


Exactly 😂 

I find the bass to be pretty adequate, engaging and punchy with foam tips. Not the best definition or quality but pretty nice for budget pair. Probably it's best quality compared to it's mids and treble.


----------



## Stefanmz7

Hey,so I have the Xiaomi Airdots-which have 7.2mm drivers and a DSP(according to the specs at least) I don't know about the impedance. Now I found those earbuds which I really like but according to their specs they have 6mm drivers and no mention of DSP. https://www.emag.bg/slushalki-phili...&X-Section=search&X-MB=0&X-Search-Action=view
https://www.philips.com.sg/c-p/TAT2205WT_00/2000-series-in-ear-true-wireless-headphones
so I was wondering are they gonna sound better just because they are phillips and they are more expensive(so you know better quality materials and drivers) or is it just smaller drivers worse sound? Which ones do you think will sound better Airdots which are cheaper but the specs are better on paper or the Phillips? which are more expensive with lower specs on paper?


----------



## AmericanSpirit (May 26, 2021)

Stefanmz7 said:


> Hey,so I have the Xiaomi Airdots-which have 7.2mm drivers and a DSP(according to the specs at least) I don't know about the impedance. Now I found those earbuds which I really like but according to their specs they have 6mm drivers and no mention of DSP. https://www.emag.bg/slushalki-phili...&X-Section=search&X-MB=0&X-Search-Action=view
> https://www.philips.com.sg/c-p/TAT2205WT_00/2000-series-in-ear-true-wireless-headphones
> so I was wondering are they gonna sound better just because they are phillips and they are more expensive(so you know better quality materials and drivers) or is it just smaller drivers worse sound? Which ones do you think will sound better Airdots which are cheaper but the specs are better on paper or the Phillips? which are more expensive with lower specs on paper?


my vote for KZ SKS ($29 on Aliexpress). This wireless TWS is very nicely tuned, simply can't get wrong. It also uses latest bluetooh 5.2 chips from Qualcomm.


----------



## profusion (May 26, 2021)

How is the SKS bass compared to dq6?

PS
Do you by chance have apple watch if yes how is the connectivity (without phone) for running for example?
I need some cheap TWS for running and movies watching with TV, i got Tronsmart Ace but they have poor SQ and isolation since they are buds and falling from years constantly


----------



## Caipirina

This is a bit 'Blast from the Past' material, but I need help with my TRN BT20S which I just dug up again ... I recall I did not have much love for them as they came with a mean hiss with the TRN iems I had bought them with ... and I vaguely recall that I have pairing issues back then as well, but somehow got them to work ... but no such luck today ... I googled, I found that reset guide on youtube .. I am doing all the steps, but it appears that the 2 sides are not properly connecting ... but they are somehow tied to each other ... after reset and then turning on again, only the left side blinks, indicating pairing willing ness (voice prompts come ONLY from the right though) and in the BT menu of phone I only see TRN L  (not just TRN) and when I connect that, then I get music ONLY from the right bud!  I have been doing that reset, unpairing, trying other sources dance several times now ... was there another special trick?


----------



## AmericanSpirit (May 26, 2021)

profusion said:


> How is the SKS bass compared to dq6?


I prefer SKS's bass over DQ6's XUN driver, good sense of punch and thorough resonance, more tactile and transient is more elastic.  The "Oomph" experience is very unique on SKS.
And the good part is that although being KZ IEM, SKS isn't traditional KZ house tuning, more matured and laid-back, which makes KZ's BA timbre more subtle.
They used 30019 driver (not a typical 30095), which I recall it's the tweeter driver KZ used for ZAX.

Not a magically super high-tech layered bass like of those LCP / Pure-beryllium, still a good chunk of punch like those of bery-coated one.
I enjoy this over CCA CSN, and maybe due to its bass resonance, I enjoy it over KBEar Lark and all KZ IEMs simply due to the matured tuning. Hope I could pull an FR chart but I can't find any.

Good thing is that because it's simple 1BA+1DD, the linear phasing of those multi-BAs does not kick SKS's back too much, I found SKS performs a very smooth transition from frequency to frequency. Not a technical monster, but pretty much forgivable from its welcoming tuning.

SKS with Bass-boost type thin-skinned black ear tip(and wide bore), on AptX,  makes rock, acoustics, pops, EDM, jazz, fusion, classical and neo-classical a very surprisingly engaging experience, mainly due to wide sound stage and thorough resonance, one of surprise from a company like KZ to make contrabass tonality a heart-thumping one.

It definitely a bass-heavy one, I can recall this wide-sound stage bass presentation to THX-certified movie theatre, while DQ6 is more of a live house type bass presentation.


----------



## tiagopinto (May 26, 2021)

SomeGuyDude said:


> Yeah, I have Amazon Music (3mo trial) and HD is bundled in. If you're going for it just for the purposes of listening to albums (meaning you're not planning on using a ton of discovery features) it's honestly a no-brainer because it's only $7.99/mo so well cheaper than the rest. Their Ultra HD is like 3100kbps or something silly like that and the regular HD is somewhere in the 800s so no matter what you're doing good.
> 
> The only major downside to Amazon, to me, is that you can't transfer playlists from other services to them. That's a big problem because I tend to pick my favorites on Spotify/Tidal/etc and then export them via Soundiiz to each other, so not having ANY of my playlists really sucks.



Wow, didn’t know this existed. I mean, Soundiiz! Is it free? Reliable? Thanks.

Edit: just looked into it, it’s paid, at least for what I wanted it to do. As much as I respect they have to profit from their developing efforts, and I very much do, I am not willing to get another monthly cost, as small as it may be. When all these subscriptions add up, it’s crazy.


----------



## profusion

AmericanSpirit said:


> I prefer SKS's bass over DQ6's XUN driver, good sense of punch and resonance, more tactile and transient is more elastic.  The "Oomph" experience is very unique on SKS.
> Not a magically super high-tech layered bass like of those LCP / Pure-beryllium, still a good chunk of punch like those of bery-coated one.


Thanks 🙏 i added more questions editin the post but probably you missed them 😂


----------



## Caipirina

AmericanSpirit said:


> my vote for KZ SKS ($29 on Aliexpress). This wireless TWS is very nicely tuned, simply can't get wrong. It also uses latest bluetooh 5.2 chips from Qualcomm.


Has anyone compared the SKS with the old T1 which are also 1BA 1DD (and no longer available). I still enjoy their sound sig quite some.


----------



## AmericanSpirit

profusion said:


> How is the SKS bass compared to dq6?
> 
> PS
> Do you by chance have apple watch if yes how is the connectivity (without phone) for running for example?
> I need some cheap TWS for running and movies watching with TV, i got Tronsmart Ace but they have poor SQ and isolation since they are buds and falling from years constantly


I didn't like the apple watch's battery life and got myself one of Huawei's smartwatch (surprisingly the app is still working on US AppStore!)
Ah but I usually run with phones on my hand, so I can't answer that smartwatch hooked TWS impression


----------



## AmericanSpirit

Caipirina said:


> Has anyone compared the SKS with the old T1 which are also 1BA 1DD (and no longer available). I still enjoy their sound sig quite some.


I have their old S1D, battery life and SQ both got improved, not as V-shape as S1D.


----------



## hifi80sman

BooleanBones said:


> Hi All,
> 
> First and foremost, thanks to all for all of the informative posts. I never post here as I don't have much in the way of valued input generally, so I typical just read. That being said, I thought I would give my thoughts on the B&W PI5s that I bought and received today. I purchased these in hopes of an improved music listening experience as my number one goal, but possibly for use in my home office for conference calls, etc. I use Air Pods Pro for that currently or an external BT speaker. Below is a summary of my initial tests:
> 
> ...


A little late to the party, but thanks for the feedback.  I just ordered a pair today for order pick up at Best Buy, so we'll see!  I had the PI3 when it was on sale at Costco and thought it sounded great, however, the design was a bit fussy with fit, so I ended up returning it.  If the PI5 sound similar, I'll be a happy camper.

The PI7 look compelling, however, $399 for a pair of TWS is a little much, especially since I stream Apple Music from my iPhone and iPad Pro most of the time (or at the gym).


----------



## assassin10000

Caipirina said:


> This is a bit 'Blast from the Past' material, but I need help with my TRN BT20S which I just dug up again ... I recall I did not have much love for them as they came with a mean hiss with the TRN iems I had bought them with ... and I vaguely recall that I have pairing issues back then as well, but somehow got them to work ... but no such luck today ... I googled, I found that reset guide on youtube .. I am doing all the steps, but it appears that the 2 sides are not properly connecting ... but they are somehow tied to each other ... after reset and then turning on again, only the left side blinks, indicating pairing willing ness (voice prompts come ONLY from the right though) and in the BT menu of phone I only see TRN L  (not just TRN) and when I connect that, then I get music ONLY from the right bud!  I have been doing that reset, unpairing, trying other sources dance several times now ... was there another special trick?



With them off, hold both power buttons for 10-20 seconds. However long it takes for them to do 2 sets of descending tones.

Then power them on for 3-5 seconds to self pairing mode. Both should blink blue fast, then press one button for a second. Once they pair one side will go dark and the other will blink red/blue.

Now pair to your device.


----------



## Caipirina

assassin10000 said:


> With them off, hold both power buttons for 10-20 seconds. However long it takes for them to do 2 sets of descending tones.
> 
> Then power them on for 3-5 seconds to self pairing mode. Both should blink blue fast, then press one button for a second. Once they pair one side will go dark and the other will blink red/blue.
> 
> Now pair to your device.


Thanks. Tried that and had high hopes that the ‘press one button for one second’ was the missing magic ingredient. But well, it might have done something… I tried several versions / times / intervals again. Twice I got at least voice prompts from both sides. Once I got requests from R to pair while L was connected. Once I had L and R show up at the same time. Weirdest version was that I had music coming from the phone’s speaker, while apparently both were connected enough that button presses would stop / start music … 
I seem to recall that when I got them I also had to go through all kinds of permutations until suddenly it magically worked. Of course then I wanted to connect them to an AptX player (that was one reason why they bought them ) and ever since they are stewing around.


----------



## W1ll1eTheP1mp

Hey guys! After my long search for a TWS, i finally bought Jabra EA75T 10 days ago on the used market. The shipping company really messed the shipping up and now the package is lost. I got my refund from the seller. So now im back to where i was earlier! 

EA75T had multimode. Since my Phone actually takes dual sim, i have No need for multimode since i have my work sim in my private phone. 

What other TWS is recommended? I want good sound, good batterylife, good/decent call quality and a case that is portable! A Plus for case/aftermarket case with a carabin hook!

 My preferences for sound is in the U12T area. I know that the clarity and details that U12t has is not to be expected for a TWS.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

tiagopinto said:


> Wow, didn’t know this existed. I mean, Soundiiz! Is it free? Reliable? Thanks.
> 
> Edit: just looked into it, it’s paid, at least for what I wanted it to do. As much as I respect they have to profit from their developing efforts, and I very much do, I am not willing to get another monthly cost, as small as it may be. When all these subscriptions add up, it’s crazy.


It's a shame, I really do think it's worth it. I do weekly syncs across multiple platforms (chiefly from Spotify) and it's been a good service.


----------



## AmericanSpirit (May 26, 2021)

W1ll1eTheP1mp said:


> Hey guys! After my long search for a TWS, i finally bought Jabra EA75T 10 days ago on the used market. The shipping company really messed the shipping up and now the package is lost. I got my refund from the seller. So now im back to where i was earlier!
> 
> EA75T had multimode. Since my Phone actually takes dual sim, i have No need for multimode since i have my work sim in my private phone.
> 
> ...


It may sound a bit stupid, but KZ TWS called SKS (it came out like last month) actually sounds quite nice. (With ultra-thin & soft ear tips ) 

I'm a proud owner of qdc Anole VX, and still enjoying KZ SKS, hard to find a frequency response chart, but it has a nice wide sound stage & bass (especially somewhere around 50hz sub-bass) rolled, maturely tuned mids, some vocal focus around 3khz, then gradually compensated trebles. Which from reading reviews of U12t, that may fit the signature description.

 Price is $29 on Aliexpress, $48 on Amazon USA.  If you have an android phone that supports Aptx, that's my recommendation over Moondrop Sparks (TWS: $90, single DD with beryllium-coatted), and Apple's infamous AirpodsPro(quite a nice tuning, lovely), or wireless modded with BT modules IEMS(the tails are just too inconvenient when running).

Actually, U12t might be my next big purchase! Hopefully by end of this year...


----------



## W1ll1eTheP1mp

AmericanSpirit said:


> It may sound a bit stupid, but KZ TWS called SKS (it came out like last month) actually sounds quite nice. (With ultra-thin & soft ear tips )
> 
> I'm a proud owner of qdc Anole VX, and still enjoying KZ SKS, hard to find a frequency response chart, but it has a nice wide sound stage & bass (especially somewhere around 50hz sub-bass) rolled, maturely tuned mids, some vocal focus around 3khz, then gradually compensated trebles. Which from reading reviews of U12t, that may fit the signature description.
> 
> ...


So soundquality wise you like the KZ SKS better than Sparks and Airpods Pro? Im actually happy that it i didnt end up with EA75T. After more research, they seems to have very muffled sound?!?


----------



## SemiAudiophile

AmericanSpirit said:


> Actually, U12t might be my next big purchase! Hopefully by end of this year...


I am saving for the same...😭 If there is one IEM that'll make the exception of going into kilobuck territory, I think it'll be the U12t since they have near perfect and flawless ratings from almost all reviewers out there.


----------



## assassin10000

Caipirina said:


> Thanks. Tried that and had high hopes that the ‘press one button for one second’ was the missing magic ingredient. But well, it might have done something… I tried several versions / times / intervals again. Twice I got at least voice prompts from both sides. Once I got requests from R to pair while L was connected. Once I had L and R show up at the same time. Weirdest version was that I had music coming from the phone’s speaker, while apparently both were connected enough that button presses would stop / start music …
> I seem to recall that when I got them I also had to go through all kinds of permutations until suddenly it magically worked. Of course then I wanted to connect them to an AptX player (that was one reason why they bought them ) and ever since they are stewing around.


Make sure you turn bluetooth off on your phone when re-pairing them together.

If it connects to the phone, instead of each other first, that'll be an issue.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

SemiAudiophile said:


> I am saving for the same...😭 If there is one IEM that'll make the exception of going into kilobuck territory, I think it'll be the U12t since they have near perfect and flawless ratings from almost all reviewers out there.


Endgame is a myth. I've learned that. I've been in the $1000-2000 range for headphones before and honestly eventually it just turns into what is tuned a way you like and even then the differences are minute. I've been happier with my Hemp/FD5 combo than LCD-3/se846 and similar just because it happens to tickle my pickle better than others and I'm not constantly feeling like i have to justify the expense.


----------



## mainguy

SomeGuyDude said:


> Endgame is a myth. I've learned that. I've been in the $1000-2000 range for headphones before and honestly eventually it just turns into what is tuned a way you like and even then the differences are minute. I've been happier with my Hemp/FD5 combo than LCD-3/se846 and similar just because it happens to tickle my pickle better than others and I'm not constantly feeling like i have to justify the expense.


I agree tbh, although the only big IEM I've owned for a long time was the Andromeda. With IEMs I felt that the cieling was hit way sooner, headphones, HD800S/Focal Clear/P9 for me were a new world. Andro, not so much. Going back to my tws I just can't feel anything major missing, maybe that's me. They're worse, but in a way I have to focus on. With top end over ears its so noticable my brain is immediately aware of the difference.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

mainguy said:


> I agree tbh, although the only big IEM I've owned for a long time was the Andromeda. With IEMs I felt that the cieling was hit way sooner, headphones, HD800S/Focal Clear/P9 for me were a new world. Andro, not so much. Going back to my tws I just can't feel anything major missing, maybe that's me. They're worse, but in a way I have to focus on. With top end over ears its so noticable my brain is immediately aware of the difference.


For sure. I mean with TWS I don't think any of us are buying them for quiet listening sessions in the house. They're a mobile device. The amount of necessary fidelity is a good bit lower as long as they have a good tuning. 

I do miss my LCD-3 some days, but I admit I'm not in much a rush to get them back.


----------



## senorbroom

Another day, another TWS announcement: https://www.gsmarena.com/redmi_airdots_3_pro_unveiled_with_anc_28hour_battery_life-news-49310.php

Battery life is a bit worrying if true: 3 hours ANC ON, 6 hours ANC OFF.


----------



## AmericanSpirit

W1ll1eTheP1mp said:


> So soundquality wise you like the KZ SKS better than Sparks and Airpods Pro? Im actually happy that it i didnt end up with EA75T. After more research, they seems to have very muffled sound?!?


Pure technicalities both Moondrop sparks /AirpodsPro are on upperhand, but bass presentation and overall tonality, KZ SKS is a very remarkable IEM, not gonna sound good with default tips, so it’s not an easy pick.
I tried tip rolls and noticed SKS only fits well with ultra thin-skinned black ear tips(Unique Melody’s “Blue Core” proprietary tips.  The driver matches with that particular tip🤔


----------



## AmericanSpirit

SemiAudiophile said:


> I am saving for the same...😭 If there is one IEM that'll make the exception of going into kilobuck territory, I think it'll be the U12t since they have near perfect and flawless ratings from almost all reviewers out there.


I just consulted with someone who have extensive experience of those, I may detour to Softears RS10 instead, as Anole VX and U12t with some differences, yet still may lay on the similar side of sounding..a bit of redundancy there.  

Softears RS10 in Chinese forums I looked the other day, are as highly regarded as Anole VX, U12t. So I hope if there is a chance to try it, I may have a second thoughts for RS10.🤔


----------



## BooleanBones

hifi80sman said:


> A little late to the party, but thanks for the feedback.  I just ordered a pair today for order pick up at Best Buy, so we'll see!  I had the PI3 when it was on sale at Costco and thought it sounded great, however, the design was a bit fussy with fit, so I ended up returning it.  If the PI5 sound similar, I'll be a happy camper.
> 
> The PI7 look compelling, however, $399 for a pair of TWS is a little much, especially since I stream Apple Music from my iPhone and iPad Pro most of the time (or at the gym).


I am with you on the price as well. Without hearing anything remotely close to the PI5s in audio quality/sound level in a TWS, I really want to pull the trigger on another set like the PI7s, etc. to compare. I could use aptxHD with my Walkman using the PI7s, but find myself in convenience mode a lot using the iPhone (travel light as possible). I will probably keep them and use my airpods pros for conf calls/phone and the PI5s for music and the occasional call on the fly. The PI5s seal my ears much better than the airpods, so even in ambient mode it still feels like you are in a bit of a tunnel. Good luck and let me know what you think with them paired up in your scenario.


----------



## chinmie

AmericanSpirit said:


> Pure technicalities both Moondrop sparks /AirpodsPro are on upperhand, but bass presentation and overall tonality, KZ SKS is a very remarkable IEM, not gonna sound good with default tips, so it’s not an easy pick.
> I tried tip rolls and noticed SKS only fits well with ultra thin-skinned black ear tips(Unique Melody’s “Blue Core” proprietary tips.  The driver matches with that particular tip🤔



I'm contemplating whether i should try the SKS or buy the AZ09 and pair it to my Blons, each have their own strengths (aptx and smaller size on the SKS compared to the larger battery of the AZ09), but i think i would hold back for now, seeing i have a bit of too many TWS now (and I'm expecting the Apollo Air from the mail too). 

i was steering away from buying the Airpods Pro, but recently bought it because my wife is in a bit of an Apple ecosystem total-ness, switching her phone, tablet, and laptop to their product..so she bought the Airpods Pro too. 

i gotta say, it does sound good. i like that it is tuned quite neutral. most might find it bland, but it's up in my alley of tuning. driver technicalities, it also one of the better one, I'd say on the level of the XM3, but just on a different tuning


----------



## Ultrainferno

Today we look at the JAYS t-Seven TWS IEM with ANC. According to @Aerosphere  , it has good sound quality for the price and it is one of the best TWS earphones in terms of microphone performance. 

https://www.headfonia.com/jays-t-seven-review/


----------



## Asoares99

Hello, has anyone tried the BW PI7 and the Devialet Gemini? I have the Gemini and the sound is amazing, would just like to understand if the PI7 is worth to add. I listem mostly progressive and fast music and like to listen very detail in the sound. Thanks


----------



## W1ll1eTheP1mp

Hmm. can anyone share their opinion on these? Looking for my first TWS: i need good sound quality, good battery life, practical case and good call quality. App support is a must! Also, is it best to buy TWS new and not used? it seems like TWS buds often can get troublesome and need replacement/repair? Way more than normal IEMs?

Lypertek Z3 or Z7

Cambridge Melomania 1+/Touch: which one is best?

Klipsch T1 ( can get it really cheap 99 usd new)

Jabra EA75T: i originally ordered these, but got refund cause of package lost in shipping. ( some guys says it doesnt have midrange and the soundquality sucks bigtime/muffled. these guys slayed the EA75 T BIGTIME! .

Moondrop Sparks: Case seems huge to have in a pocket or attached to belt

Final Evangelion TWS: Looks awesome!

BGVP Q2:

Earsonics AERO:

I alsoread that Sudio, Klipsch and RHA is working with DIRAC on some new TWS buds with immersive sound features.


----------



## senorbroom

W1ll1eTheP1mp said:


> Hmm. can anyone share their opinion on these? Looking for my first TWS: i need good sound quality, good battery life, practical case and good call quality. App support is a must! Also, is it best to buy TWS new and not used? it seems like TWS buds often can get troublesome and need replacement/repair? Way more than normal IEMs?
> 
> Lypertek Z3 or Z7
> 
> ...



If you use android try the Galaxy Buds Pro. Probably the best all-rounder (provided they fit your ears).


----------



## W1ll1eTheP1mp

senorbroom said:


> If you use android try the Galaxy Buds Pro. Probably the best all-rounder (provided they fit your ears).


Hey. Thanks for your reply. I got LG V40. I was strongly considering the Pro version., "but i found out that surround will only work on S21?


----------



## senorbroom

W1ll1eTheP1mp said:


> Hey. Thanks for your reply. I got LG V40. I was strongly considering the Pro version., "but i found out that surround will only work on S21?


This is correct, but how often do you think you’d use it?


----------



## senorbroom

Some new Sony news: https://www.notebookcheck.net/Sony-...PX4-rating-for-water-resistance.541358.0.html

8 hour battery life ANC on / 12 hour ANC off
Support for LDAC/ALAC
$350USD


----------



## AmericanSpirit

chinmie said:


> I'm contemplating whether i should try the SKS or buy the AZ09 and pair it to my Blons, each have their own strengths (aptx and smaller size on the SKS compared to the larger battery of the AZ09), but i think i would hold back for now, seeing i have a bit of too many TWS now (and I'm expecting the Apollo Air from the mail too).





chinmie said:


> i was steering away from buying the Airpods Pro, but recently bought it because my wife is in a bit of an Apple ecosystem total-ness, switching her phone, tablet, and laptop to their product..so she bought the Airpods Pro too.
> 
> i gotta say, it does sound good. i like that it is tuned quite neutral. most might find it bland, but it's up in my alley of tuning. driver technicalities, it also one of the better one, I'd say on the level of the XM3, but just on a different tuning


yea apple nailed it. Not completely flat but nicely tuned neutrality for AirPodsPro. ANC works like genius, battery lasts very long, light as feather, and switches like a magic with stable connection. I wished they add volume control so that It can be used for non-apple ecosystem. I got AirPodsPro when it came out, looked stocks all across states, when I traveled to new york, and after many failed attempts, I got that AirPodsPro at fith avenue’s apple store, since then it’s one of my default go-to TWS. 70/100 IEM for sure.


----------



## jant71

AmericanSpirit said:


> Pure technicalities both Moondrop sparks /AirpodsPro are on upperhand, but bass presentation and overall tonality, KZ SKS is a very remarkable IEM, not gonna sound good with default tips, so it’s not an easy pick.
> I tried tip rolls and noticed SKS only fits well with ultra thin-skinned black ear tips(Unique Melody’s “Blue Core” proprietary tips.  The driver matches with that particular tip🤔



Funny I just got those yesterday with the 3DT and they are pretty bad for the 3DT but maybe I will try them on the CCA CC1 as softer tips should work better. Right now I would choose DQ6 wireless over CC1 TWS no problem for a better bass and mids. I do think the DQ6 and Z3 wireless cable work together nice and give the best bass. Heck, I don't know what the stock DQ6 bass is but probably sub par from what it can be. Never used the stock cable only some better ones but still enjoy wireless best even if a decent cable might give better technical performance. Still want to find the best tip and give some run in to be fair to the CC1.

Actually just tried them out quick and they fit in the case fine and the bass is indeed more lively and articulate as the tips strip off the blanket off them.  Not surprising they might follow similar behavior to the KZ model.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

The main companies have definitely started taking this stuff seriously. I'm really damn impressed with the Galaxy Buds Pro. Dual-driver, AKG tuned, with a ton more life than I would have expected and Samsung's scalable codec is solid as hell out of a Galaxy phone. 

Now that headphones are turning into "techie toys," companies like Samsung, Apple, Sony etc are stepping their game up.


----------



## AmericanSpirit (May 27, 2021)

jant71 said:


> Funny I just got those yesterday with the 3DT and they are pretty bad for the 3DT but maybe I will try them on the CCA CC1 as softer tips should work better. Right now I would choose DQ6 wireless over CC1 TWS no problem for a better bass and mids. I do think the DQ6 and Z3 wireless cable work together nice and give the best bass. Heck, I don't know what the stock DQ6 bass is but probably sub par from what it can be. Never used the stock cable only some better ones but still enjoy wireless best even if a decent cable might give better technical performance. Still want to find the best tip and give some run in to be fair to the CC1.
> 
> Actually just tried them out quick and they fit in the case fine and the bass is indeed more lively and articulate as the tips strip off the blanket off them.  Not surprising they might follow similar behavior to the KZ model.


Yea that tip is IEM dependent, neither did it fit with MEST MKII for my taste too. But somehow magically make some IEM(with dynamic driver bass) shine like hell of a marriage. SKS alone, with other eartips sounds “eh ok not bad”, but with UM bass tip, it resonates a “bass that diffuse like movie theater” type 🪄 magic👍

Bass range usually does not have wide sound stage, so it was a shocking surprise.

I asked UM to sell the tips separately and they seemed got some idea in selling UM basic accessory package.

The generic soft thin-skinned tips got very narrow bore like Final Es or Sony hybrids, resulting treble and mids to be nerfed, where UM got like 5.5-6mm open wide bore, with the soft flange, very good idea they got there👍


----------



## SemiAudiophile

AmericanSpirit said:


> I just consulted with someone who have extensive experience of those, I may detour to Softears RS10 instead, as Anole VX and U12t with some differences, yet still may lay on the similar side of sounding..a bit of redundancy there.
> 
> Softears RS10 in Chinese forums I looked the other day, are as highly regarded as Anole VX, U12t. So I hope if there is a chance to try it, I may have a second thoughts for RS10.🤔


Well it looks like you already have baby U12t (SA6) anyway 😉. I like the idea of the apex modules being able to switch from neutral to neutral with bass boost. Hopefully they all come with the MX modules now.


----------



## AmericanSpirit

SemiAudiophile said:


> Well it looks like you already have baby U12t (SA6) anyway 😉. I like the idea of the apex modules being able to switch from neutral to neutral with bass boost. Hopefully they all come with the MX modules now.


SA6 got that apex system as “atmospheric immersion” swtich😂 basically a hardware switch to turn on 3db bass floor raise. Good point is that the switch is flippable by index finger while IEMs are stayed in-ear!


----------



## Caipirina

senorbroom said:


> Some new Sony news: https://www.notebookcheck.net/Sony-...PX4-rating-for-water-resistance.541358.0.html
> 
> 8 hour battery life ANC on / 12 hour ANC off
> Support for LDAC/ALAC
> $350USD


Very curious now ... and though I surely have enough players and my ears are with 50+ on the old side anyways .. what would be a nice LDAC player to use with these?   Fiio M7?


----------



## clerkpalmer

Caipirina said:


> Very curious now ... and though I surely have enough players and my ears are with 50+ on the old side anyways .. what would be a nice LDAC player to use with these?   Fiio M7?


I sure hope 350 isn’t right. I guess the pI7 could be used as a defense?


----------



## bladefd

senorbroom said:


> Some new Sony news: https://www.notebookcheck.net/Sony-...PX4-rating-for-water-resistance.541358.0.html
> 
> 8 hour battery life ANC on / 12 hour ANC off
> Support for LDAC/ALAC
> $350USD


Very nice battery life. It is also listed to have ipx4. Bit on expensive side though. I don't remember how much the xm3 was on release


----------



## clerkpalmer

bladefd said:


> Very nice battery life. It is also listed to have ipx4. Bit on expensive side though. I don't remember how much the xm3 was on release


I don’t see moving many units at 350. Too much competition with Apple etc. LDAC won’t be appreciated except by a few of us here. I have to believe 299 is the max. Maybe they saw the success of the pI7 and upped the price but Sony is about volume. Either that or they’ll start high and grab initial sales and then drop the price.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

clerkpalmer said:


> I don’t see moving many units at 350. Too much competition with Apple etc. LDAC won’t be appreciated except by a few of us here. I have to believe 299 is the max. Maybe they saw the success of the pI7 and upped the price but Sony is about volume. Either that or they’ll start high and grab initial sales and then drop the price.


That's hyperinflation at work, bud. Even brake rotors are starting to creep in price.

I expect more of the same until these supply chain issues are all fixed. Totally agree that $350 is too much.


----------



## tinyman392

chinmie said:


> I'm contemplating whether i should try the SKS or buy the AZ09 and pair it to my Blons, each have their own strengths (aptx and smaller size on the SKS compared to the larger battery of the AZ09), but i think i would hold back for now, seeing i have a bit of too many TWS now (and I'm expecting the Apollo Air from the mail too).
> 
> i was steering away from buying the Airpods Pro, but recently bought it because my wife is in a bit of an Apple ecosystem total-ness, switching her phone, tablet, and laptop to their product..so she bought the Airpods Pro too.
> 
> i gotta say, it does sound good. *i like that it is tuned quite neutra*l. most might find it bland, but it's up in my alley of tuning. driver technicalities, it also one of the better one, I'd say on the level of the XM3, but just on a different tuning


I got a pair shortly after launch (before I saw any measurements for them) and was flabbergasted since it sounded very close to DF neutral to my ears.  I was almost doubting my ears for a second.  But then measurements eventually came out and it is very close to DF neutral.  Very impressed with what Apple did with the IEM.


----------



## clerkpalmer

miserybeforethemusic said:


> That's hyperinflation at work, bud. Even brake rotors are starting to creep in price.
> 
> I expect more of the same until these supply chain issues are all fixed. Totally agree that $350 is too much.


You mean the 11 trillion dollars printed and distributed last year is causing inflation?


----------



## Dregur

bladefd said:


> Very nice battery life. It is also listed to have ipx4. Bit on expensive side though. I don't remember how much the xm3 was on release


That's way more expensive than the xm3 was at release. It was $230 at release.


----------



## W1ll1eTheP1mp

What do you guys think has best sound quality of Melomania 1+/ Touch OR Jabra ET75T? Anyone tried both? Im hearing so totally different opinion about the EA75T. And that many has had warranty issues with it


----------



## SomeGuyDude

I've had like... every single Jabra on multiple devices and EVERY ONE had a left-side hiss problem. 65, 75, 85. They've all given me that. Maybe I'm the only one sensitive enough to hear it, but it's maddening and I cannot recommend them as a result.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

W1ll1eTheP1mp said:


> What do you guys think has best sound quality of Melomania 1+/ Touch OR Jabra ET75T? Anyone tried both? Im hearing so totally different opinion about the EA75T. And that many has had warranty issues with it


The Melomania over Jabra. EA75t has a much bassier tilt and it tends to overwhelm the mids.

You get the Jabra for stability without compromising too much in SQ. I'd say the ADV M5 would be a smarter bet than either Melomania if SQ is the absolute goal, though.


----------



## bladefd

clerkpalmer said:


> I don’t see moving many units at 350. Too much competition with Apple etc. LDAC won’t be appreciated except by a few of us here. I have to believe 299 is the max. Maybe they saw the success of the pI7 and upped the price but Sony is about volume. Either that or they’ll start high and grab initial sales and then drop the price.


Maybe it will drop to 250 after a year once they recoup the initial research costs. That's how these companies typically price in high research costs.


----------



## W1ll1eTheP1mp

SomeGuyDude said:


> I've had like... every single Jabra on multiple devices and EVERY ONE had a left-side hiss problem. 65, 75, 85. They've all given me that. Maybe I'm the only one sensitive enough to hear it, but it's maddening and I cannot recommend them as a result.


Then Jabra is out of the question for me, cause that is the issue most people have with Jabra 75T. Im quite sensitive for hiss etc myself. What tws do you use/like? The xm3 would be a buy for me cause of the price drop now, but no ip cert is a no for me. Need something that are a little sturdy


----------



## W1ll1eTheP1mp

miserybeforethemusic said:


> The Melomania over Jabra. EA75t has a much bassier tilt and it tends to overwhelm the mids.
> 
> You get the Jabra for stability without compromising too much in SQ. I'd say the ADV M5 would be a smarter bet than either Melomania if SQ is the absolute goal, though.


But there seems to be much issues with Jabra E75T. One of the buds stops working. And not very easy to deal with either


----------



## profusion

@AmericanSpirit can you remind me what is the time SKS lasts on a single charge out of the case?


----------



## SemiAudiophile (May 27, 2021)

tinyman392 said:


> I got a pair shortly after launch (before I saw any measurements for them) and was flabbergasted since it sounded very close to DF neutral to my ears.  I was almost doubting my ears for a second.  But then measurements eventually came out and it is very close to DF neutral.  Very impressed with what Apple did with the IEM.


How are the APP's ANC? Is it close to full size ANC? I have Sony WH-1000XM2 and their ANC is excellent. I was thinking about getting the Jabra's just for phone calls but might decide with APP for calls and the plane instead.

Dumb question, but is there an app for APP that work with Android? 😆


----------



## tinyman392

SemiAudiophile said:


> How are the APP's ANC? Is it close to full size ANC? I have Sony WH-1000XM2 and their ANC is excellent. I was thinking about getting the Jabra's just for phone calls but might decide with APP for calls and the plane instead.
> 
> Dumb question, but is there an app for APP that work with Android? 😆


I wouldn't say they are close to full-size, my APM actually has better noise canceling than the APP which is odd.  It's mainly the higher frequencies that are an issue.  That said, I have tested the ANC on a plane and it's more than adequate for that task.  I haven't had the chance to test my APM to compare though.  Apple offers no apps for the APP, but it does work with Android, you kind of just have to put it into pairing mode and connect it.  The APP with a non-Apple device might be a hassle, I'm not 100% sure though.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

W1ll1eTheP1mp said:


> Then Jabra is out of the question for me, cause that is the issue most people have with Jabra 75T. Im quite sensitive for hiss etc myself. What tws do you use/like? The xm3 would be a buy for me cause of the price drop now, but no ip cert is a no for me. Need something that are a little sturdy


I snagged the Galaxy Buds Pro because I have an S21, they sound fantastic. Threw on some foam tips and they're excellent.


----------



## AmericanSpirit

profusion said:


> @AmericanSpirit can you remind me what is the time SKS lasts on a single charge out of the case?


3-4 hours, and when I run out of power, i placed SKS in charging box, made a call for like 15min, then It lasted another 3m2 hours, pretty quick charge


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

W1ll1eTheP1mp said:


> But there seems to be much issues with Jabra E75T. One of the buds stops working. And not very easy to deal with either


Can only speak to my experience. They've been the least problematic of any of my sets, more so than the 85t. No hiss, no bad buds. App works perfectly. Jabra got it right as far as I'm concerned.


----------



## jant71

Not sure if this really excites anyone...

news​ 
       The basic performance of the main body is inherited from the previous model

Fostex renews the completely wireless "TM2" to a case charging compatible version. Released in early June​ 
              Editing Department: Sugiyama Kousuke       
         May 27, 2021

        Fostex has renewed the completely wireless earphone "TM2" that adopts a detachable flexible short cable, and will release it as "TM2C" with a built-in battery charging case from the beginning of June. The price is open, but it is expected to be sold for around 26,000 yen including tax.        

TM2 released in 2019 is a product that can be completely wireless by removing the earphone part and attaching your favorite re-cable compatible earphone. While inheriting the basic performance from the previous model, by making the case a new one with a built-in battery, it is possible to charge the case, which was not possible with the previous model.

The maximum continuous playback time is about 10 hours with the earphone alone, and up to about 40 hours with the case charging. Charging time is about 1 hour and 30 minutes. A USB-C terminal is used for the input port. The external dimensions of the case are 138W x 35H x 67Dmm, and the mass is 138g. 



 

The product includes an MMCX type detachable flexible short cable, but as mentioned above, the basic performance of the main unit is inherited from the previous model, so it is possible to use an optional cable that has already been released. At the moment, the company sells MMCX / FitEar 2pin / CIEM 2pin / A2DCpin types.


----------



## jant71

Then there is this which probably will excite people  ...
https://www.gsmarena.com/leak_the_s...upport_and_longer_battery_life-news-49334.php


----------



## Dobrescu George

High-quality TWS IEMs have always been rare, and most of them have a pleasing, but basic sound / comfort, so you know the market is going to heat up when a company like Fostex International steps in! 

They designed their TM-2 HD TWS IEMs with the audiophile and the enthusiast in mind. Those are perfect when it comes to their comfort, and the TWS modules can drive some high-end flagships too, all while keeping their excellent ergonomics / comfort, but the default IEMs are high-quality too, so tons of fun to be had! 

I made a full in-depth written review, which I hope will come in handy to you, and I hope it is a nice read~ 

I'm always around to help if there's anything I can help with  

https://www.audiophile-heaven.com/2021/05/fostex-tm-2-bluetooth-tws-iems-audiophile-sports.html


----------



## SomeGuyDude

A proper set of TWS adapters has been one of those pipe dreams for a while. If Fostex pulled it off that's WELL worth looking into.


----------



## AmericanSpirit

Dobrescu George said:


> High-quality TWS IEMs have always been rare, and most of them have a pleasing, but basic sound / comfort, so you know the market is going to heat up when a company like Fostex International steps in!
> 
> They designed their TM-2 HD TWS IEMs with the audiophile and the enthusiast in mind. Those are perfect when it comes to their comfort, and the TWS modules can drive some high-end flagships too, all while keeping their excellent ergonomics / comfort, but the default IEMs are high-quality too, so tons of fun to be had!
> 
> ...


Sad why MMCX main, 2pin adapters adds extra weights 😭


----------



## CocaCola15 (May 27, 2021)

W1ll1eTheP1mp said:


> What do you guys think has best sound quality of Melomania 1+/ Touch OR Jabra ET75T? Anyone tried both? Im hearing so totally different opinion about the EA75T. And that many has had warranty issues with it


I own both CAs and had the Jabras. The M1+ hands down for me, with OEM foam tips. I have the Touch too. Like them but favor the M1+ For a few reasons, form, click not touch, comfort and finally, sound.


----------



## Dobrescu George

SomeGuyDude said:


> A proper set of TWS adapters has been one of those pipe dreams for a while. If Fostex pulled it off that's WELL worth looking into.



If you need just the TWS adapters, I heard the UTWS3 from FiiO, and it has been a wonderous experience. Cheaper than TM2. Not perfect either, TM2 has a slightly better sound, but it does not have a batter in the charging cradle, so they both are advantageous to different users I would say.


----------



## chinmie

Dobrescu George said:


> If you need just the TWS adapters, I heard the UTWS3 from FiiO, and it has been a wonderous experience. Cheaper than TM2. Not perfect either, TM2 has a slightly better sound, but it does not have a batter in the charging cradle, so they both are advantageous to different users I would say.


do also make a comparison to the TRN BT20S Pro and Ibasso CF01 if possible(and add the KZ AZ09 too for complete comparison). there are already comparison between them, but another set of objective observation would always be a welcome


----------



## jant71 (May 27, 2021)

Dobrescu George said:


> If you need just the TWS adapters, I heard the UTWS3 from FiiO, and it has been a wonderous experience. Cheaper than TM2. Not perfect either, TM2 has a slightly better sound,* but it does not have a battery* in the charging cradle, so they both are advantageous to different users I would say.


It will next month with the TM2C if you check a few posts back.


----------



## AmericanSpirit

chinmie said:


> do also make a comparison to the TRN BT20S Pro and Ibasso CF01 if possible(and add the KZ AZ09 too for complete comparison). there are already comparison between them, but anothe set of objective observation would always be a welcome


I have TRN BT20pro, SQ...no comment


----------



## Sebulr

I have the trn bt20 non s, and the kz AZ09. The trn bt20 has a lower noise floor than the KZ offering, but I can only hear the hiss in very quiet environments. I've heard the hiss on the trn bt20S is worse. Can't comment on the more expensive offerings because I'm a cheapskate.


----------



## Dobrescu George

jant71 said:


> It will next month with the TM2C if you check a few posts back.



Ooooh, that is most excellent


----------



## W1ll1eTheP1mp

SomeGuyDude said:


> I snagged the Galaxy Buds Pro because I have an S21, they sound fantastic. Threw on some foam tips and they're excellent.


I got LG V40. If i did have an S21 i think i would have done the same since all features will work i have an Samsung tab A7, but i dont think i can use all features from the Buds Pro with than one either since it requires UI 3.2


----------



## jsmiller58

W1ll1eTheP1mp said:


> I got LG V40. If i did have an S21 i think i would have done the same since all features will work i have an Samsung tab A7, but i dont think i can use all features from the Buds Pro with than one either since it requires UI 3.2


Never could understand companies putting up barriers to adoption of their accessories.  Realistically, does anyone buy an S21 to use the Buds Pro?  An iPhone to use the AirPods Pro?  I think not. 

Now arguably Apple has created a big enough ecosystem of connected devices and accessories that could create a pull for some new users just to access the ecosystem.  I am not one of those, but I’ll accept it could work.  But, still seems like a bad idea to erect barriers.


----------



## Thesonofkrypton (May 28, 2021)

The WF-1000XM4 looks to have a much better fit in ear than its predecessor.

IPX4 rating as well as LDAC, wireless charging and improved ANC with new V1 chip.

8 Hours battery with ANC on (12 Hours with ANC off) and a further two charges in the case.

Improved call quality with new tech.

279.99 euros. Releasing soon (hoping for June)

Love it when a company listens to customer feedback and gives us those improvements. They have literally addressed every flaw with the previous version.

For me, at least on paper, this is the one TWS that will tick all the boxes especially since I love the sound of the XM3.


----------



## clerkpalmer

Thesonofkrypton said:


> The WF-1000XM4 looks to have a much better fit in ear than its predecessor.
> 
> IPX4 rating as well as LDAC, wireless charging and improved ANC with new V1 chip.
> 
> ...


Agreed. Looking like an insta buy for many here.


----------



## Slowhand (May 28, 2021)

€280 is certainly more acceptable than the initial $350 reported. Looking forward to seeing the first reviews before making a decision but it looks like a buy for me as well. Will be stuck on AAC with an iPhone though.

EDIT: Apparently €280 comes out to about $340 in conversion. I think that's what the author in the first leak did, as I have only seen the EU price in articles mentioned. Many products are priced 1:1 in USD and EUR (taking into account sales tax differences), leading me initially to believe the Sony could retail for €350. For example, the MW08 is sold by M&D for $299 and €299


----------



## Slowhand

Also, do we believe that is 8 hours with LDAC playback or not? I would guess not?


----------



## Thesonofkrypton

Sony are always ahead of the game or at least making meaningful advancements on battery tech, so I’m sure that’s more or less right with the right conditions of course ha


----------



## snapandslide

I'm still liking my 1000XM3 - I can deal with the fit, so definitely going to have to be a massive step up in sound quality to justify me upgrading (predominantly using iphone here).


----------



## profusion

AmericanSpirit said:


> 3-4 hours, and when I run out of power, i placed SKS in charging box, made a call for like 15min, then It lasted another 3m2 hours, pretty quick charge



How is the microphone on calls if you sporadically someone calls you and you decide to pick up with SKS on?


----------



## Thesonofkrypton

Slowhand said:


> €280 is certainly more acceptable than the initial $350 reported. Looking forward to seeing the first reviews before making a decision but it looks like a buy for me as well. Will be stuck on AAC with an iPhone though.
> 
> EDIT: Apparently €280 comes out to about $340 in conversion. I think that's what the author in the first leak did, as I have only seen the EU price in articles mentioned. Many products are priced 1:1 in USD and EUR (taking into account sales tax differences), leading me initially to believe the Sony could retail for €350. For example, the MW08 is sold by M&D for $299 and €299


We are always getting shafted price wise here in the UK, so I'm sure it will be $280 for you guys!


----------



## W1ll1eTheP1mp

Lg Tone Free FN6 is on sale in my country now for only 40 usd. is it worth the 40? its gonna mainly be used for calls and podcast while walking/jogging. Think i wait for something more expensive when the XM4 is for sale!


----------



## AmericanSpirit

profusion said:


> How is the microphone on calls if you sporadically someone calls you and you decide to pick up with SKS on?


Haven’t tried yet, but since SKS uses 5.2 Qualcomm QCC3040 chip, I don’t think calls will get interference like old pairs of 5.0 issues. I’m using SKS in my house, and the signal was very consistent even when I went to pick up Amazon delivery downstairs. It was as stable as Apple’s AirPodsPro.


----------



## AmericanSpirit

W1ll1eTheP1mp said:


> Lg Tone Free FN6 is on sale in my country now for only 40 usd. is it worth the 40? its gonna mainly be used for calls and podcast while walking/jogging. Think i wait for something more expensive when the XM4 is for sale!


It’s kinda irrelevant, but as I see LG is retreating from Smartphone segment, I’m not very confident if they have enough resources to dump into consumer electronics either.
https://b360nepal.com/lg-retreats-from-the-global-smartphone-market-a-farewell/


----------



## C_Lindbergh

Anywhere to buy the new ADV in Europe?


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

C_Lindbergh said:


> Anywhere to buy the new ADV in Europe?


Probably direct from their website. I'd have to imagine most of the EU is safe for dispatch.


----------



## C_Lindbergh

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Probably direct from their website. I'd have to imagine most of the EU is safe for dispatch.



Yeah, but I'd like to avoid import fees and crap


----------



## zeinharis

No love for Aviots?






After fiddling with the translation, finally I can updated the Aviot TE-D01G’s firmware so I can connected it to the Aviot Sound XXX app.





The app is nothing to fancy about, but it does have 10 band EQ, I use this one to make it more balance in terms of sounds, and the EQ settings is saved on to the buds.





So far I like the TE-D01G’s sounds more than the Nuarl N6 Mini. A happy camper indeed I am.


----------



## Tommy C

zeinharis said:


> No love for Aviots?
> 
> 
> 
> ...




I have never heard of this brand before. Trying to look them up and information is scarce. 
Do they have website? I see a few models here and there from Singapore but can't find anything helpful. 
It's difficult for me to take a company that sells TWS in the $100+ range seriously if they don't have a decent website and something I can refer to.


----------



## zeinharis

Tommy C said:


> I have never heard of this brand before. Trying to look them up and information is scarce.
> Do they have website? I see a few models here and there from Singapore but can't find anything helpful.
> It's difficult for me to take a company that sells TWS in the $100+ range seriously if they don't have a decent website and something I can refer to.



Not like Nuarl which have an English website, Aviot is only in Japanese https://aviot.jp/

I wouldn’t recommend them if you live outside Asia, cause they are overpriced. I got the TE-D01G from an authorized dealer here in my country (Indonesia), the price is around $60 USD.


----------



## LordToneeus

jant71 said:


> So, I got my pair of CCA CC1 TWS today. I think they are fine for the $21 I paid for them. Case is a decent size but pretty bland and a little plasticky. Don't like the USB C on the bottom or the LED being inside so it has to be open to see the battery gauge which is red/greed one light and not a four quarter dots type. Seem to act a little funny when inserting into the case at times.  Twice so far the R side was blue in the case and not sure if you can't touch them cause they will turn on or what when docked. Touch control can be accidentally pressed but you can put them in, take out and adjust fit without ever setting it off.
> 
> Sound is pretty good but I think they deserve some run in to see what the dynamic ends up as. Soft tips(like the stock pairs) will give the treble some peakiness but the treble is fine if you have a good seal. Some good air and stage with decent extension to the ends. Detail is okay and would be nice if the dynamic shows more after some run in. Nice if a bit better but will never be amazing.
> 
> ...


Just opened up mine this morning.  I was immediately struck by how light and... unsubstantial they seem.  Has to be the smallest, lightest pair I've had thus far.  For $21, I'm totally pleased with these.  They're bright and punchy... about what I was expecting soundwise.  But the fit!  So light and small, they just disappear into my ears.  I don't foresee any issues with having to fiddle with these on walks or while working out.  

So long as no connection issues creep up I'll be a happy camper.


----------



## michsu

https://www.kickstarter.com/project...1QaHb68GJoYCI&utm_campaign=1622224382865.ccd8


----------



## SilverEars

michsu said:


> https://www.kickstarter.com/project...1QaHb68GJoYCI&utm_campaign=1622224382865.ccd8


Great idea, would luv to see that on APP so I can use the APP for long duration flights.  Apple would never condone this.  They would rather have customers pay for replacements and fill the world of APP wastes.


----------



## Thesonofkrypton

Sony WF-1000XM4 promotional video leaked

https://thewalkmanblog.blogspot.com/2021/05/sony-wf-1000xm4-leaked-in-product-video.html


----------



## W1ll1eTheP1mp

Thesonofkrypton said:


> Sony WF-1000XM4 promotional video leaked
> 
> https://thewalkmanblog.blogspot.com/2021/05/sony-wf-1000xm4-leaked-in-product-video.html


Does it have boneconductor sensor? Seems so? When using voice? Im not from Holland though


----------



## Mouseman

michsu said:


> https://www.kickstarter.com/project...1QaHb68GJoYCI&utm_campaign=1622224382865.ccd8


It's too bad they didn't see these 4 years ago:  .


----------



## snapandslide

W1ll1eTheP1mp said:


> Does it have boneconductor sensor? Seems so? When using voice? Im not from Holland though


My dutch is decent, but I don't really get what boneconductor is there for - something to do with how it picks up the correct voice. The other interesting thing is the combatting against wind noise - which was for me the biggest pain of the XM3.

Overall - if the fit is better, they do seem a pretty substantial upgrade, which they should damn well be two years later.


----------



## W1ll1eTheP1mp

Where do i find info about this one? Tried to google! Looks cool though. Is it a new of an addition to the Final tws Eva Series?


----------



## C_Lindbergh

How does the first gen Sony true wireless compare with their over ears when it comes to sound signature? 

I wasn't really a fan of any of the Sony ANC over ears when it comes to SQ... :/


----------



## tinyman392

C_Lindbergh said:


> How does the first gen Sony true wireless compare with their over ears when it comes to sound signature?
> 
> I wasn't really a fan of any of the Sony ANC over ears when it comes to SQ... :/



Most of their over ears have had different sound signatures...  So you'd probably need to be more specific when you talk about them.  Even among the XM series of over ears...  Different sound signatures which has caused a lot on here to stick to their XM3 instead of upgrading to the XM4 since the latter is more linear in signature.


----------



## dweaver

WH-1000XM2 more balanced Sig
WH-1000XM3 darker Sig
WH-1000XM3 more balanced Sig
So each model is slightly different.

I imagine the WF-1000XM4 will also be different, hopefully not leaning to a darker sound. Will be interesting to see if the new driver is more detailed or not.


----------



## jant71

LordToneeus said:


> Just opened up mine this morning.  I was immediately struck by how light and... unsubstantial they seem.  Has to be the smallest, lightest pair I've had thus far.  For $21, I'm totally pleased with these.  They're bright and punchy... about what I was expecting soundwise.  But the fit!  So light and small, they just disappear into my ears.  I don't foresee any issues with having to fiddle with these on walks or while working out.
> 
> So long as no connection issues creep up I'll be a happy camper.



Yep, certainly the main reason we both bought. Good deal and the fit would be good and the sound should be more than worth it. They do come through with small size and light weight and you can get a good and fun sound. A little sensitive on the touch control but not too bad just need to be a little careful handling them. I personally think they kinda do a bad job with the connection with belt level pockets as I get cut outs. I am currently using a Ruizu clip player this way I can clip it on the collar and be drop free. otherwise arms and turning the head can give issues. Perhaps longer tips to make them stick out a smidge more might help. With a device out away from the body there are no issues. They are a keeper but not totally smooth sailing. I would hope they could use better antenna in the future. they seem to want to stay cheap but I'm sure people would pay for better stuff like aptX and better antenna since they are a more flush fitting bud.


----------



## snapandslide

dweaver said:


> WH-1000XM2 more balanced Sig
> WH-1000XM3 darker Sig
> WH-1000XM3 more balanced Sig
> So each model is slightly different.
> ...


It’s funny that because with their normal IEMs the Sony house sound is pretty consistent. I reckon the XM4 will be balanced leaning to dark.


----------



## tinyman392

snapandslide said:


> It’s funny that because with their normal IEMs the Sony house sound is pretty consistent. I reckon the XM4 will be balanced leaning to dark.


Granted I've only heard 3 or 4 Sony IEMs, really old ones to boot (like 10 years old)...  They really didn't have much consistency in tonality from what I remember.


----------



## chinmie

C_Lindbergh said:


> How does the first gen Sony true wireless compare with their over ears when it comes to sound signature?
> 
> I wasn't really a fan of any of the Sony ANC over ears when it comes to SQ... :/



the first TWS (I'm assuming you mean the WF-1000X) has a brighter and more balanced tuning even compared to the WF-1000XM3 which has more midbass and warmer sounding, and even the warmer WF-XM3 is sounding more balanced compared to the (even warmer and more midbass) over ears WH-XM3. 

i like the original WF-1000X sound the most, but the really short battery and finicky signal make it not worth the hassle of keeping them around. 

the good thing is, the Sony app's EQ is quite good that i can tune the WF-XM3 (and even my WH-XM3) to sound closer to the WF-1000X's tuning. 

driver capability-wise, i think the newer WF/WH XM3 are better because they can handle EQ tweaks better.


----------



## dweaver

I love Sony headphones and IEMs and have a lot of them over the years ranging from $200 to $800. They do have a bit of a house sound but it does change and they went fairly dark (WH-1000XM3 I am looking at you...) For a while but they also have had models that were more balanced. The WH-1000XM4 sounds like it has gone more balanced from the few listens I have had. The WF-1000XM3 is more balanced sounding than its overear counterpart so hopefully the XM4 model will be no darker than the XM3.

I have a pair of Between Pro on order and I hope they kick butt but I would be lying if said I wasn't interested in the XM4


----------



## snapandslide

tinyman392 said:


> Granted I've only heard 3 or 4 Sony IEMs, really old ones to boot (like 10 years old)...  They really didn't have much consistency in tonality from what I remember.


There was better consistency with what cam after with the XBA series and even the Z1R follows a similar Sony house sound trend even if it is more neutral. Though of course all categories ramped up to 11.

Even though the WF1000XM3 is definitely warmer it does feel of the same grain as the other Sony IEMs


----------



## profusion

AmericanSpirit said:


> Haven’t tried yet, but since SKS uses 5.2 Qualcomm QCC3040 chip, I don’t think calls will get interference like old pairs of 5.0 issues. I’m using SKS in my house, and the signal was very consistent even when I went to pick up Amazon delivery downstairs. It was as stable as Apple’s AirPodsPro.


Not for the connection part, sometimes phones without stem like airpods the mic do not get sound so good and the other people heading mudded unreliable speach from you?


----------



## SilverEars (May 29, 2021)

dweaver said:


> I love Sony headphones and IEMs and have a lot of them over the years ranging from $200 to $800. They do have a bit of a house sound but it does change and they went fairly dark (WH-1000XM3 I am looking at you...) For a while but they also have had models that were more balanced. The WH-1000XM4 sounds like it has gone more balanced from the few listens I have had. The WF-1000XM3 is more balanced sounding than its overear counterpart so hopefully the XM4 model will be no darker than the XM3.
> 
> I have a pair of Between Pro on order and I hope they kick butt but I would be lying if said I wasn't interested in the XM4


I like the sig of XM3 for general usage. Treble doesn't get hot and bass is fun for some tracks.  It's a very practical headphone.  I have many usage scenarios for it.

Full sized is generally superior technically than in-ears.  I'd take XM3 easily over ER4.

I find XM3 more balanced than XM4.  I didn't think XM4 tuning was an improvement, but the opposite.

For next iteration I prefer like XM3 up top with lowered low mids with the same level of bass impact to keep it fun.


----------



## jant71

Okay seems someone did it...

But didn't seem to do a good job on anything else. Proof of concept perhaps.  Would also be nice to have more battery life than 6 per battery since we have quite a few that get around 12 or even more now on a single charge.


----------



## AmericanSpirit

profusion said:


> Not for the connection part, sometimes phones without stem like airpods the mic do not get sound so good and the other people heading mudded unreliable speach from you?


Ahh, that may need some attempts, will try whenever i get a chance


----------



## SomeGuyDude

snapandslide said:


> It’s funny that because with their normal IEMs the Sony house sound is pretty consistent. I reckon the XM4 will be balanced leaning to dark.


If it's like any of their others it'll be really bass heavy. I've had a few Sony wireless sets (including the WF and WH XM3) and "balanced" is not something I would say they're anywhere near to.


----------



## jiddu

BooleanBones said:


> I use Bowers and Wilkins PI3s and I have been happy with them. The buds have magnets in them so that they can attach to each other when not in use. For the price, I have been happy with them. The PI4s are similar with some additional features, but have no experience using those. At the time when I bought my PI3s, folks were complaining about some issues, so I went with the model down. Good luck.


Thanks!  I'll give those a try.  Funny enough the silicones on my beats flex were hurting my ears, plus I realized I could use more isolation at work so bought comply tips.  I like these a lot more now, didn't realize tips can make that much of a difference.  Still for non work I'll try a few different ones, probably the bowers Wilkins first.


----------



## chinmie

jant71 said:


> Okay seems someone did it...
> 
> But didn't seem to do a good job on anything else. Proof of concept perhaps.  Would also be nice to have more battery life than 6 per battery since we have quite a few that get around 12 or even more now on a single charge.




Syllable already did that years ago with the D9X. i recently changed the battery on my Sabbat E12, and also tried to change the battery of my Tronsmart Onyx Ace. The repair guy told me that currently it's easier to find battery replacement for TWS like those E12 (and other non-stem ďesign), well at least in my country. 

that PQ earbuds seem to use molded battery, which i assume can't be opened without ruining the housing. 

so for now, if i want longevity on my TWS, i would stick to the non-stem design


----------



## senorbroom

Samsung Galaxy Buds 2 have gone through FCC approval: https://www.gsmarena.com/samsung_ga..._fcc_pictures_of_buds_and_case-news-49356.php

They look very similar to the Buds Pro design but have a smaller battery and the jury is out whether they include ANC. Tipsters are forecasting an August release. 

Rumoured announcement date of June 8 for the WF-1000XM4: https://www.notebookcheck.net/Possi...aled-as-launch-commercial-leaks.541577.0.html


----------



## Ultrainferno

Are the super popular Tronsmart Apollo Bold TWS IEMs still worth it? Article by @Aerosphere 

https://www.headfonia.com/tronsmart-apollo-bold-review/


----------



## Mouseman

Ultrainferno said:


> Are the super popular Tronsmart Apollo Bold TWS IEMs still worth it? Article by @Aerosphere
> 
> https://www.headfonia.com/tronsmart-apollo-bold-review/


Good review.  Unfortunately, the company seems to no longer actively support this product. I'd be interested to know if they told Headfonia anything contrary. They have only done one firmware update in quite a while that didn't add any features, and as you noted they haven't even added the ability to do custom EQs. That's very disappointing because they sought feedback here when it was first released, then never really executed any of it. These buds had a lot of promise, but I feel pretty burned by the purchase.


----------



## 100Pipers

Picked up the P17's yesterday in London (they sound as good, if not better, as has been widely reported), got Selfridges to reduce a tenner as they where the display unit so paid £339. Went there to buy the rha truecontrol which they have reduced to £199 from £249. Great place to try tws and they have most of the more expensive ones like bose, b&o, klipsch, noble and of course b&w.


----------



## jant71

chinmie said:


> Syllable already did that years ago with the D9X. i recently changed the battery on my Sabbat E12, and also tried to change the battery of my Tronsmart Onyx Ace. The repair guy told me that currently it's easier to find battery replacement for TWS like those E12 (and other non-stem ďesign), well at least in my country.
> 
> that PQ earbuds seem to use molded battery, which i assume can't be opened without ruining the housing.
> 
> so for now, if i want longevity on my TWS, i would stick to the non-stem design


More for battery life than battery longevity. Pretty sure that would be the right way to pursue if you are a manufacturer. More about the not having to put in the case and wait by just attaching fresh batteries instantly. Some, but less, want the device to last more than 5 years and swap batteries out after 2 or 2.5 years and keep going. More often they will just want to by the new tech by that time. Those who get bored or are in the hobby compelled to try the new stuff and the keep up with the Jones' type who need to have the latest thing to be with the in crowd. They really outnumber the Longevity crowd so I don't blame them going that way. Not that they did anything really right. More hours straight before needing to swap and sound good and attach a bit more sturdily like push and slight twist with a slotted design. Stem design was also easier. No reason it can't be done with no stem with better design ability than the PQ people or their OEM.


----------



## VICosPhi (May 30, 2021)

Sony WF-1000XM4 will likely have LDAC!!

Lots of technology in such small buds. LDAC, bone conduction to detect when you begin to speak, beam-forming microphones for better audio, 8 hours of advertised battery life with ANC, Speech detection to pause, lower music volume, DSEE engine for better EQ, wind detection when running, IPX4 rating etc. I am gonna try these out for sure...


----------



## helmutcheese

I imagine due to being an official Bluetooth device it has to support SBC, so that would be some battery life as above LDAC+ANC = 8 hours and LDAC - ANC = 12 hours by my reading.


----------



## dweaver

My suspicion in 12 hrs will be SBC or AAC and no NC. I imagine LDAC will kill the battery much like DSEE did on the XM3. Hope I am wrong but that's my suspicion.


----------



## helmutcheese (May 31, 2021)

Yes 12 hours is definitely with no ANC but I cannot remember if they stated that was with LDAC or not but they did not mention other codec support and dropped all AptX etc in the big bother to these (the WH-1000XM4 headphones), I had the XM3's and was not very impressed.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

Ok, so I caved...Azla's reputation precedes them; couldn't pass up seeing what their TWS offering was capable of. Was already ordering a couple books from the 'Zon, so tossed these in as well. Should be "crystal" clear from the photo, but the size I rolled the dice on were Medium. They are also available in all the in-between sizes from SSS up to L (on MTMT as well, if Amazon ever runs out of stock). I believe the lack of larger sizing past this point would be a reflection of the Korean market; perhaps there's not much demand for anything larger.





Here they are pictured on the ADV M5 and they're honestly fantastic bedfellows. I was somewhat surprised to find their tip surface is a lot tackier than your typical silicone or foam tips, which I imagine is to help with grip inside your ear (which it does _insanely _well), but the tradeoff is that it'll grip onto whatever dust/hair/lint is floating around the air (or in your ear) until you clean it back off. If this becomes a chronic problem, you could always lick your thumb/forefinger and just wipe the surface of the tip prior to insertion. As always, good ear hygiene is a must with _any _TWS and can mitigate leaving "friends" on the eartip surface long-term.

Sound-wise, the M5 were already temperamental enough with tips as they really don't seem to like anything with a nozzle that protrudes too much. This is for two reasons:
1. The upper midrange begins to smear and become _very_ sibilant. Anything that produces a more horn-like shape does not suit the M5 well, including the EPro TW00, which up until this point were my favorite tips
2. These fit inside the case more than easily. Due to the more rigid nature of the shroud, you do have to give the M5 a bit more of a tap when putting them in the case, but they will fit afterwards and do make contact with the charging pins. Same goes for the CX400BT and Melomania Touch, which I also tested for case compatibility.

And oh, what a difference in sound they make. Azla's full-size tips (the Sedna, not the XELASTEC) seem to perform a lot of cleanup for those TWS that have a slightly looser bass signature. In the case of the M5, which had a prominent, yet compartmentalized bass (not loose), it seemed to take the bass energy and give it more punch without sacrificing the overall intensity. Perhaps these are the tips the M5 were supposed to have all along, though might have been too expensive to include. The overall shape between the Azla Crystal TWS and ADV's flatter tips have a lot in common regarding shape and nozzle protrusion.



They even do fantastically with the CX400BT, which I have had a _beast_ of a time trying to find aftermarket tips that permitted a good seal, didn't completely mess up the midrange tonality, and even performs a little bit of a treble lift. Unfortunately, I find the CX400BT's treble tuning is already pretty rolled off and the Crystal can't perform miracles, but I do find things neutralize enough just from the tip swap to make these plenty enjoyable for vocal-dominant tracks. They did admirably with The Erised's _Desire EP_, though I'll readily admit that the M5's extra bass weight (and added control, thanks to the tips) completely upstages the CX400BT on this sort of content:



Finally, I gave them a spin with the Melomania Touch. While they're _very _temperamental inside the MT's case, the tradeoff with in-ear comfort more than make up for it. Overall change to sound signature is probably the least different over stock compared to any other TWS I've tried with the Crystal, though perhaps there's a slight boost in bass clarity, especially with the upright bass in Track 2 of the EP I linked above. In this case, that's not really a bad thing. If the stock bass signature was too much for you, though, I'm afraid the Crystal isn't going to fix that enough to make a difference.



All in all, I think the Senda Crystal are a fantastic alternative set of tips for the ADV M5 (and the only aftermarket tip I've been able to recommend for the M5 so far), a suitable alternative over the stock tips for the CX400BT, and a comfort/fit upgrade (just not a big sound quality one) for the MT. At their current price of $25 for two pairs, however, don't buy until you're absolutely confident in what size you need. Even I was apprehensive at ordering the Medium, but they seem to be the perfect fit in my ears.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

Still no Between Pro, still another vague "it'll get there when it gets there" email. I've given Status the ultimatum to either get me a working tracking number by the end of the week or lose the sale entirely.

I have been more than patient, but these guys have to be off their rocker to believe they can string financial backers along indefinitely, making a promise to ship by date X, having date X blow by, and making no meaningful attempt to update their backers when it happens. This is the "beg for forgiveness" model of sales, allowing for complete logistical ineptidute (and that's me being polite, to be perfectly honest), and shouldn't be permitted for _any _company of _any_ size.

Suffice to say at this point I don't know if you guys are ever going to get a Between Pro review from me since I don't know if I'm ever receiving the product. I can only warn others to avoid backing the project until Status massively corrects course. If you ordered after April, I highly encourage you to cancel and look elsewhere.


----------



## Luchyres

I'm very excited to buy the Tour Pro Plus, having really liked the JBL Club Pro+, but alas, after I add them to my cart and click to go to my cart I'm consistently redirected to eu.jbl.com 

https://www.jbl.com/headphones/TOUR-PRO-TWS-.html?dwvar_TOUR-PRO-TWS-_color=Black-AM-Current


If anyone spots them on Amazon or elsewhere, let me know


----------



## Luchyres

Luchyres said:


> I'm very excited to buy the Tour Pro Plus, having really liked the JBL Club Pro+, but alas, after I add them to my cart and click to go to my cart I'm consistently redirected to eu.jbl.com
> 
> https://www.jbl.com/headphones/TOUR-PRO-TWS-.html?dwvar_TOUR-PRO-TWS-_color=Black-AM-Current
> 
> ...


Well, after posting, I was inspired to try again, and after the eu redirect, I re-selected USA as my home country and voila 🤷‍♂️ 

Ordering! Head's up to any of you who were keeping an eyes out for these that they're looking like they're avail to ship.


----------



## DJ XtAzY

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Ok, so I caved...Azla's reputation precedes them; couldn't pass up seeing what their TWS offering was capable of. Was already ordering a couple books from the 'Zon, so tossed these in as well. Should be "crystal" clear from the photo, but the size I rolled the dice on were Medium. They are also available in all the in-between sizes from SSS up to L (on MTMT as well, if Amazon ever runs out of stock). I believe the lack of larger sizing past this point would be a reflection of the Korean market; perhaps there's not much demand for anything larger.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I haven't been keeping up in this thread, but what are your favorite tips for the MT's so far?


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

DJ XtAzY said:


> I haven't been keeping up in this thread, but what are your favorite tips for the MT's so far?


Either the Final TWS or EPro TW00. Both give a slightly different emphasis on the bass and lower midrange that I enjoy. Can't go wrong with either; get whatever's cheaper.


----------



## bladefd (May 31, 2021)

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Either the Final TWS or EPro TW00. Both give a slightly different emphasis on the bass and lower midrange that I enjoy. Can't go wrong with either; get whatever's cheaper.


Are both equally comfortable?

Looks like I would probably need Large for Final type e for tws or medium for EPro TW00. Latter is $5 cheaper on Amazon.


----------



## CocaCola15 (May 31, 2021)

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Still no Between Pro, still another vague "it'll get there when it gets there" email. I've given Status the ultimatum to either get me a working tracking number by the end of the week or lose the sale entirely.
> 
> I have been more than patient, but these guys have to be off their rocker to believe they can string financial backers along indefinitely, making a promise to ship by date X, having date X blow by, and making no meaningful attempt to update their backers when it happens. This is the "beg for forgiveness" model of sales, allowing for complete logistical ineptidute (and that's me being polite, to be perfectly honest), and shouldn't be permitted for _any _company of _any_ size.
> 
> Suffice to say at this point I don't know if you guys are ever going to get a Between Pro review from me since I don't know if I'm ever receiving the product. I can only warn others to avoid backing the project until Status massively corrects course. If you ordered after April, I highly encourage you to cancel and look elsewhere.


Understand your annoyance, completely. Oddly enough, when I came on to check out HF tonight, I had the BPs in my ears and find them sublime, using the large OEM tips. I was an early buyer, $79, as I had mentioned. Damn, though, they just sound soooo nice. Not very specific, I know. But when I compare them to the two sets of CAs Ihave (MT and M1+), they just sound, well, more balanced. No EQ required. Listening to Amazon Music HD on an LG V30, a mix of female vocalists, mostly jazz, and the BPs are knocking me out.

Now, I also have the Status BT-1 on-ear TW phones, which I love and find and amazing value at $49, which is what I paid at the time. I think the Status folks got in over their heads here, but in the end, I think they are worth the wait. No ANC (I can hear the NBA playoffs in the background, time to mute the TV). I am no expert/audiophile, but I have owned a s-load of IEMs in my time, and the BPs make me happy. I would just hang on, not give up. After all, most of those on this thread have plenty of other TW phones to pass the time.  Hang in there, I guess is my message. I want someone to tell me I am out to lunch on this pair of TW phones.

The other thing is, check the comments on Indiegogo. A lot of po'd people, no doubt about it. But almost everyone who ends up getting them is more than happy. Not the HF crowd in terms of experience and knowledge, but most are very happy. And there are several youtube reviewers who are on the bandwagon. That's not necessarily a definitive thing, but it is pretty consistent across reviewers. Issue is, can they compete with much more expensive TW phones? I have owned a few, the Sony M3, the Senns, Jabras, Nuarl and a few others, all gone. Keeping the BPs.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

bladefd said:


> Are both equally comfortable?
> 
> Looks like I would probably need Large for Final type e for tws or medium for EPro TW00. Latter is $5 cheaper on Amazon.


Yep they're both very comfortable. I'd suggest starting with the Final as they won't be as fussy with other pairs of TWS.


CocaCola15 said:


> Understand your annoyance, completely. Oddly enough, when I came on to check out HF tonight, I had the BPs in my ears and find them sublime, using the large OEM tips. I was an early buyer, $79, as I had mentioned. Damn, though, they just sound soooo nice. Not very specific, I know. But when I compare them to the two sets of CAs Ihave (MT and M1+), they just sound, well, more balanced. No EQ required. Listening to Amazon Music HD on an LG V30, a mix of female vocalists, mostly jazz, and the BPs are knocking me out.
> 
> Now, I also have the Status BT-1 on-ear TW phones, which I love and find and amazing value at $49, which is what I paid at the time. I think the Status folks got in over their heads here, but in the end, I think they are worth the wait. No ANC (I can hear the NBA playoffs in the background, time to mute the TV). I am no expert/audiophile, but I have owned a s-load of IEMs in my time, and the BPs make me happy. I would just hang on, not give up. After all, most of those on this thread have plenty of other TW phones to pass the time.  Hang in there, I guess is my message. I want someone to tell me I am out to lunch on this pair of TW phones.
> 
> The other thing is, check the comments on Indiegogo. A lot of po'd people, no doubt about it. But almost everyone who ends up getting them is more than happy. Not the HF crowd in terms of experience and knowledge, but most are very happy. And there are several youtube reviewers who are on the bandwagon. That's not necessarily a definitive thing, but it is pretty consistent across reviewers. Issue is, can they compete with much more expensive TW phones? I have owned a few, the Sony M3, the Senns, Jabras, Nuarl and a few others, all gone. Keeping the BPs.


I hear you and I gave them some choice words via email. They promised me it'll be shipping soon, so we'll see. Wouldn't be the first time poor logistics crippled a good product.


----------



## CocaCola15

Good to know. I have another pair on order as well, June 21 is the date they gave me. Hope you get to hear them. I am nowhere near most of the TW fans here in terms of my experience (and my ears are old!), but still listening to the BPs  (Phoebe Snow, remember her?).


----------



## tiagopinto (Jun 1, 2021)

AmericanSpirit said:


> It’s kinda irrelevant, but as I see LG is retreating from Smartphone segment, I’m not very confident if they have enough resources to dump into consumer electronics either.
> https://b360nepal.com/lg-retreats-from-the-global-smartphone-market-a-farewell/



In Portugal they’re not retreating, they’ve declared game over, with a period of assistance for existing devices. I’m on iPhone so it doesn’t bother me much. But those guys had better DACs in their phones, thus catering for the more discerning crowd. But the market must’ve been narrow and they pulled the plug. Most of the people I know are on iPhone or Samsung anyway and most of them don’t care about sound quality as we do.


----------



## tiagopinto

Thesonofkrypton said:


> Sony WF-1000XM4 promotional video leaked
> 
> https://thewalkmanblog.blogspot.com/2021/05/sony-wf-1000xm4-leaked-in-product-video.html



Interesting. I’m curious about the upcoming sound signature. Maybe too many sensor/mic gimmicks for my taste. But some might even be useful. All other characteristics are there as expected. We shall see.


----------



## tiagopinto

C_Lindbergh said:


> How does the first gen Sony true wireless compare with their over ears when it comes to sound signature?
> 
> I wasn't really a fan of any of the Sony ANC over ears when it comes to SQ... :/



 Me neither (and that rattling plastic was really bad). That’s why I’m even more curious.


----------



## Gromu

Seems we have a confirmed date for when the Sony WF1000-XM4s will be announced.


----------



## Thesonofkrypton

Finally!!


----------



## jsmiller58

C_Lindbergh said:


> How does the first gen Sony true wireless compare with their over ears when it comes to sound signature?
> 
> I wasn't really a fan of any of the Sony ANC over ears when it comes to SQ... :/


Not a fan of the Sony over ear ANC either, seemed quit “dull” or ”wooly” sounding.  But they had great ANC.  While I am intrigued, I won’t be an early adopter, but instead will excitedly await early user impressions before purchasing.


----------



## CocaCola15

Guess that confirms my ears are definitely non-audiophile. I have the Sony XM3 over-ear ANC phones, and albeit with a bit of EQing, they sound very nice to me. The upside is I am not alone having that POV, including some reviewers at places like Tom's Guide and a few others. They were a bit expensive, true. So far, I haven't heard any rattling plastic. Goes to show you, different strokes ...


----------



## jsmiller58

CocaCola15 said:


> Guess that confirms my ears are definitely non-audiophile. I have the Sony XM3 over-ear ANC phones, and albeit with a bit of EQing, they sound very nice to me. The upside is I am not alone having that POV, including some reviewers at places like Tom's Guide and a few others. They were a bit expensive, true. So far, I haven't heard any rattling plastic. Goes to show you, different strokes ...


Absolutely, everyone is different, and I am thrilled for those that do like Sony cans!!


----------



## CocaCola15

Almost tempted to try out the XM4, almost. Nah. This addiction is just plain nasty.


----------



## snapandslide

CocaCola15 said:


> Almost tempted to try out the XM4, almost. Nah. This addiction is just plain nasty.


Well, wearing my XM3s today, I realise 1. damn they're uncomfortable and how I've put up with them for so long and 2. any wind renders the whole noise cancellation utterly useless. If Sony have truly solved these two things, plus a real upgrade in sound quality then let's see, because they do get used a lot.


----------



## Thesonofkrypton

If they’re anywhere as comfy as the Cambridge Audio Melomania Touch then I think they have a winner on their hands.


----------



## CocaCola15 (Jun 1, 2021)

snapandslide said:


> Well, wearing my XM3s today, I realise 1. damn they're uncomfortable and how I've put up with them for so long and 2. any wind renders the whole noise cancellation utterly useless. If Sony have truly solved these two things, plus a real upgrade in sound quality then let's see, because they do get used a lot.


Sorry for the curve here; There was deiscussion about the WH-1000XM3 over-ear phones, not the WF-1000XM3 in-ear TW phones. I agree re the WF-1000XM3. I had them and returned them. Didn't like the form factor at all. Anyway, sorry for the confusion. Both are TW phones, but one is full-sized, of course. Using just XM3 or XM4 got it all confused.

Turning to the WF-1000XM4, not going to buy them. Just hate spending more than say $150 on TW phones with the inevitable dead batteries ahead. Not when you can get a really good sound from less expensive brands/models, like the Melomania Touch, M1+ or the ADV M5 TW phones that recently came out and apparently on sound quality alone are pretty amazing. I am resisting them, however.


----------



## jant71

CocaCola15 said:


> Turning to the WF-1000XM4, not going to buy them. Just hate spending more than say $150 on TW phones with the inevitable dead batteries ahead. Not when you can get a really good sound from less expensive brands/models, like the Melomania Touch, M1+ or the ADV M5 TW phones that recently came out and apparently on sound quality alone are pretty amazing. I am resisting them, however.


The Sony would seem to be coming at the $279 price point. If, esp. with LDAC and the new chip and driver they are even better sounding and all the features they have I would think they are not bad. $129 more than the $150 M5. Perhaps even more rock solid connection and capable of more hours per charge as well. The PI7 are a bit much at $400 but if $279 on release the Sony will be popular and worth the $$$ if they realize the promise of SQ, better ANC, and everything else they tout.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

jant71 said:


> The Sony would seem to be coming at the $279 price point. If, esp. with LDAC and the new chip and driver they are even better sounding and all the features they have I would think they are not bad. $129 more than the $150 M5. Perhaps even more rock solid connection and capable of more hours per charge as well. The PI7 are a bit much at $400 but if $279 on release the Sony will be popular and worth the $$$ if they realize the promise of SQ, better ANC, and everything else they tout.


I feel like we can go in circles while people act on imaginary lines drawn regarding this Sony debate. Makes sense to me that those interested can go for it, those who aren't can pass. I'm planning to pass, but mainly because I already have enough fantastic-sounding pairs here and I think my hobby has pulled me back into the wired realm more anyway. Totally see where everybody's coming from here, but really seems like we're trying to defend our "flavor" here.

LDAC would be cool to have, but I have my suspicions it's going to translate to a massive drain on the battery. Granted, it's Sony's own codec and they probably have some optimizations written for it when used with their hardware (Samsung and Apple do the same thing), so I'm interested to see what comes out of that myself. Asking $275 is pretty high up there, but I think we can all agree that Sony's M.O. has never been "cheap" with their flagship products. Don't see much of an issue with their early adopter tax; consumers will snatch them up like hotcakes as soon as they hit the YouTuber rounds, anyway.

On a related note, I noticed Flossy had reviewed the PI7. Haven't had the time to watch it, but could be interesting.


----------



## Darkestred

CocaCola15 said:


> Almost tempted to try out the XM4, almost. Nah. This addiction is just plain nasty.



I was on the search for sound quality now im obsessed with call quality...What!  Definitely, would like to try them but the price is always a big nope.


----------



## dweaver

I like my WF-1000XM3 but I also did not pay full retail. I vacillate between them and the Technics AZ70 due to their different sound signatures. Between the 2 I do prefer the AZ70 for more genres though as it's not quite as warm sounding so a bit more engaging to my ears. I am curious about the new model for sure, but not full retail early adopter tax curious... unless I wind the lottery! In which case I will take one for the team LOL.

Will be watching that youtube event though...

For the wind issue, if you use the headphones app they have a wind setting that's one step away from full ANC that does remove the vast majority of wind noise. It works on the WH-1000XM3 and the WH-910N as well. Its not perfect but does work.


----------



## bladefd

Best to wait on the XM4 than buy on release. I am never making the mistake again that I made buying the Melomania Touch on release. There are usually issues to iron out on release, and rushing out to buy it based on the hype is a recipe for disaster. Wait for the reviews and see what others say. Maybe wait for a firmware update to fix those issues then buy it. Perhaps by then, price might drop 20-30 bucks too. Most of these companies overcharge initially to make up for high research/development costs (excluding perhaps chifi companies that don't usually do their own first-hand research/development). Then once that's recouped, they can afford to slash price $20-$30.


----------



## TK33 (Jun 1, 2021)

bladefd said:


> Best to wait on the XM4 than buy on release. I am never making the mistake again that I made buying the Melomania Touch on release. There are usually issues to iron out on release, and rushing out to buy it based on the hype is a recipe for disaster. Wait for the reviews and see what others say. Maybe wait for a firmware update to fix those issues then buy it. Perhaps by then, price might drop 20-30 bucks too. Most of these companies overcharge initially to make up for high research/development costs (excluding perhaps chifi companies that don't usually do their own first-hand research/development). Then once that's recouped, they can afford to slash price $20-$30.


Wise words.  Sometimes much easier said than done unfortunately for some of us.


----------



## jant71

bladefd said:


> Best to wait on the XM4 than buy on release. I am never making the mistake again that I made buying the Melomania Touch on release. There are usually issues to iron out on release, and rushing out to buy it based on the hype is a recipe for disaster. Wait for the reviews and see what others say. Maybe wait for a firmware update to fix those issues then buy it. Perhaps by then, price might drop 20-30 bucks too. Most of these companies overcharge initially to make up for high research/development costs (excluding perhaps chifi companies that don't usually do their own first-hand research/development). Then once that's recouped, they can afford to slash price $20-$30.


Always better  Think the XM3 was dropped to $230 after a higher early price. First ADV M5 was as much as $249 and then $199 and now $149 with the new version. Klipsch T5 II versions go $50 or even $100 lower on the sport.


----------



## chinmie

as interesting the XM4 is, i think i would wait until the price drops, because even now i still use my XM3 and still loving it. i have no problem with the fit (I'm using the Sony Hybrid with it) and can even use it comfortably for sleeping sideways, combined with some fluffy pillows of course. it even fits inside my motorcycle helmet, though i currently use the Apollo Bold specifically for that purpose. 

but I'm definitely interested on the XM4 in the future, it seems Sony improved the XM line in the right direction.


----------



## CocaCola15 (Jun 1, 2021)

miserybeforethemusic said:


> I feel like we can go in circles while people act on imaginary lines drawn regarding this Sony debate. Makes sense to me that those interested can go for it, those who aren't can pass. I'm planning to pass, but mainly because I already have enough fantastic-sounding pairs here and I think my hobby has pulled me back into the wired realm more anyway. Totally see where everybody's coming from here, but really seems like we're trying to defend our "flavor" here.
> 
> LDAC would be cool to have, but I have my suspicions it's going to translate to a massive drain on the battery. Granted, it's Sony's own codec and they probably have some optimizations written for it when used with their hardware (Samsung and Apple do the same thing), so I'm interested to see what comes out of that myself. Asking $275 is pretty high up there, but I think we can all agree that Sony's M.O. has never been "cheap" with their flagship products. Don't see much of an issue with their early adopter tax; consumers will snatch them up like hotcakes as soon as they hit the YouTuber rounds, anyway.
> 
> On a related note, I noticed Flossy had reviewed the PI7. Haven't had the time to watch it, but could be interesting.


Funny you should mention wired. Decided to just do some listening tonight with the $129 on sale Ety ER4XR and Qudelix 5k combo. Damn. Admittedly I do tweak the bass just a little, but while the TWs I have here are fine, can’t touch the “wireless” Etys. Why I even use TWs when sitting in a chair is, as Spock might say, totally illogical.


----------



## mikp

interesting to see if the xm4 will have some showstopper for me in the control department. Hope so, since I really like my mtw2


----------



## tiagopinto (Jun 2, 2021)

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Ok, so I caved...Azla's reputation precedes them; couldn't pass up seeing what their TWS offering was capable of. Was already ordering a couple books from the 'Zon, so tossed these in as well. Should be "crystal" clear from the photo, but the size I rolled the dice on were Medium. They are also available in all the in-between sizes from SSS up to L (on MTMT as well, if Amazon ever runs out of stock). I believe the lack of larger sizing past this point would be a reflection of the Korean market; perhaps there's not much demand for anything larger.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Considering the MT only, did you use the medium stock tips? Meaning, if you got the Crystal in medium, are they the same size?

Also, if you had issues with the fit in the case, do you believe the large size would even fit for charging? (I use Large in the stock tips (and wings)). Can you remind me if those Final TWS or ePRO TW00 fit the case? Which of the three do you recommend?

(On a side note, would these Crystals fit the Rai Solo? Although I like the double flanged wide bore tips, I could use a little tackier function for a tackier seal  )

Sorry for so many questions. Thanks.


----------



## Thesonofkrypton

if you already have something decent to use, I would honestly wait on the XM4, as the price will drop for sure. With their new speakers ra3000, it was 299 on release and now about 249 on Amazon. 

Can’t wait to try them, as I have been waiting on them for a while. Having used a lot of different brands and not being happy with any of them for various reasons, I’ll be glad to get them as I know Sony never drop the ball with a new iteration, addressing known issues with the previous version and then some.


----------



## samandhi

tiagopinto said:


> Considering the MT only, did you use the medium stock tips? Meaning, if you got the Crystal in medium, are they the same size?
> 
> Also, if you had issues with the fit in the case, do you believe the large size would even fit for charging? (I use Large in the stock tips (and wings)). Can you remind me if those Final TWS or ePRO TW00 fit the case? Which of the three do you recommend?
> 
> ...


I can't answer the first question, but would say that for the second, it sort of ties into the third; the difference in size of those would probably not impact the fitment of the MT, though it IS possible being as how large sizes tend to be a bit longer than the smaller sizes. The issue with the MT fitting properly is/has been based on the length of the tips. These are TWS tips which makes them shallower, and SHOULD fit correctly. Also from being on here for a while, when @miserybeforethemusic first got the Final TWS tips, they fit the MT IIRC. It has just always been a challenge getting regular tips (like the Final Type E) to fit and be able to charge. I ended up using the Spinfit CP360 myself. They are a tad long, but as long as I "drop" them into place correctly, I generally don't have any issues. The larger Spinfits, on the other hand, will fit, but will not allow for charging because they are a bit longer than the medium and small sizes. 

As for fitting the Solo, I would also say that they would probably fit. If you rely on putting them deeper into your ear for a seal, then these probably won't be the best for the Solo. If you DO rely on putting them deeper into your ears for a seal, the Final Type E would probably work for you. They are a tacky rubber, like you are describing for the Crystals as being, but longer (they are normal IEM tips, not TWS tips). I will let @miserybeforethemusic confirm this, and this is all my opinion from looking at the pictures of the Crystals.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

tiagopinto said:


> Considering the MT only, did you use the medium stock tips? Meaning, if you got the Crystal in medium, are they the same size?
> 
> Also, if you had issues with the fit in the case, do you believe the large size would even fit for charging? (I use Large in the stock tips (and wings)). Can you remind me if those Final TWS or ePRO TW00 fit the case? Which of the three do you recommend?
> 
> ...


Size is similar, which was refreshing.


_From left to right: stock, Azla Crystal, Final TWS_

Bore depth is the biggest differentiator, which you can clearly see with this picture. If your TWS doesn't like having a very long nozzle, the Crystals make a great match.


As to whether they'd fit the Rai Solo, I couldn't tell you for sure without knowing the nozzle dimensions. My guess is something like the SednaFitShort would probably be a better bet as they're more suited to the IEM market. They also make the XELASTEC, but those have a pretty steep learning curve to them.


----------



## SemiAudiophile

CocaCola15 said:


> Funny you should mention wired. Decided to just do some listening tonight with the $129 on sale Ety ER4XR and Qudelix 5k combo. Damn. Admittedly I do tweak the bass just a little, but while the TWs I have here are fine, can’t touch the “wireless” Etys. Why I even use TWs when sitting in a chair is, as Spock might say, totally illogical.


Thanks for that, I just ordered the ER4SR. Had them on my bucket list for a while and couldn't pass up on this sweet deal. 👍 Plan to use them with the BTR5.


----------



## CocaCola15

SemiAudiophile said:


> Thanks for that, I just ordered the ER4SR. Had them on my bucket list for a while and couldn't pass up on this sweet deal. 👍 Plan to use them with the BTR5.


I don't have either of that specific chain, but I believe you will like the combo. I started out using the new version of Ety's triple flange, but just found an old pair of the small Ety foam tips and they are perfect for me. The foam tips that come with the Etys are much too bulky for my needs. I ripped one of the stem trying to take it off the ER4XR. Anyway, hope you enjoy them as much as I do (and plan to do more often). I was enamored with the wireless thing and when outside the house or doing something a cable makes impractical, still a big fan of the Melomania Touch and M1+. But with the Eudelix (I also have an ES100 on hand), it was just a lightbulb moment when I realized I am sitting in one place, no need for TW. And the two TW phones are no match for the Etys IMHO.


----------



## SemiAudiophile

CocaCola15 said:


> I don't have either of that specific chain, but I believe you will like the combo. I started out using the new version of Ety's triple flange, but just found an old pair of the small Ety foam tips and they are perfect for me. The foam tips that come with the Etys are much too bulky for my needs. I ripped one of the stem trying to take it off the ER4XR. Anyway, hope you enjoy them as much as I do (and plan to do more often). I was enamored with the wireless thing and when outside the house or doing something a cable makes impractical, still a big fan of the Melomania Touch and M1+. But with the Eudelix (I also have an ES100 on hand), it was just a lightbulb moment when I realized I am sitting in one place, no need for TW. And the two TW phones are no match for the Etys IMHO.


I agree. TWS makes more sense when I'm doing chores around the house or commuting. Even the TWS adapters have been working great and sound wonderful. I just wanted to have another option to drive my IEMs. The UTWS3 seems to do a pretty good job with most of them so I figured the BTR5 should be great also. Plus they have a sabre chip inside  instead so that's different. I was thinking about the EtyMotion, but didn't seem that practical if I'm only going to be using it with the Etys so went this route instead. At least I can go semi-wireless this way. 😆 I do the bulk of my (critical) listening usually right before bed anyway so the wires don't get in the way that much.


----------



## natalieann

The UE fit and B&O sport can’t be beat. The UE fit blow my mind


----------



## miserybeforethemusic (Jun 2, 2021)

Well this (HiBy WH3 with the Azla Crystal tips) was an unlikely pairing, but a pretty successful one at that. I honestly enjoyed the heck out of it just sitting on WebEx calls. It has a really good knack of not boosting any of the dialogue, so calls are a very pleasant experience. Really comfortable, too.

Still have a good amount of time to spend with music before I can speak to that, but so far so good.


----------



## TK33

SemiAudiophile said:


> I do the bulk of my (critical) listening usually right before bed anyway so the wires don't get in the way that much.


Funny...I usually use my Qudelix 5K to help me fall asleep at night but my son has started crawling into our bed in the middle of the night recently and the wires made me nervous so have been using the PI7s instead the last few days.  Not the most low profile and cant sleep on my side but sounds great for being true wireless.


----------



## Dsnuts

First time on this thread. I present to you guys a wireless set you probably never heard of. Geekfly GF8S. What makes these stand out is that these are using 3 different drivers. A 7mm titanium plated dynamic doing bass duties, a single full range composite custom BA doing mids to treble, and lastly a 14 layer dual piezoelectric ceramic tweeter doing upper treble duties. More surprising is that these include a class A amplification circuit to amplify the sonics. The end results is some amazing full bodied musical sound. I have to admit I have been ignorant about wireless stuff as I am purely a wired guy. I do cable reviews. Lol. But these have changed my perception of how good wireless sound can be and how far wireless sonics has come. These sound better than a lot of wired sets in their price range which surprised me to no end.  You can read more about them on my review I just posted here. https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/geekfly-gf8s.25193/


----------



## jsmiller58

Dsnuts said:


> First time on this thread. I present to you guys a wireless set you probably never heard of. Geekfly GF8S. What makes these stand out is that these are using 3 different drivers. A 7mm titanium plated dynamic doing bass duties, a single full range composite custom BA doing mids to treble, and lastly a 14 layer dual piezoelectric ceramic tweeter doing upper treble duties. More surprising is that these include a class A amplification circuit to amplify the sonics. The end results is some amazing full bodied musical sound. I have to admit I have been ignorant about wireless stuff as I am purely a wired guy. I do cable reviews. Lol. But these have changed my perception of how good wireless sound can be and how far wireless sonics has come. These sound better than a lot of wired sets in their price range which surprised me to no end.  You can read more about them on my review I just posted here. https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/geekfly-gf8s.25193/


Wow.  Awesome!  After reading your review these might be my next purchase...!


----------



## Dsnuts

7mm titanium plated dynamic is no joke. Don't know if any of you guys own the ISN H40 but that is the sound signature these remind me of. Very excellent sonically.


----------



## jsmiller58

Dsnuts said:


> 7mm titanium plated dynamic is no joke. Don't know if any of you guys own the ISN H40 but that is the sound signature these remind me of. Very excellent sonically.


Do they support aptX?


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

jsmiller58 said:


> Wow.  Awesome!  After reading your review these might be my next purchase...!


Piqued my interest as well, but I've got lofty IEM goals that require saving up for. Would love to try them out, though. They sounds great, @Dsnuts


----------



## Darkestred

Geekfly look good but that battery life is eh.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

jsmiller58 said:


> Do they support aptX?


Looks like AAC only, according to the Geekfly site.


----------



## Dsnuts (Jun 2, 2021)

Its Bluetooth 5.0 AAC does not mention Aptx unfortunately. Cant complain how it sounds however. What surprised me about these is their internal amplification the sound is full bored all the time always. Very musical.  Another surprising aspect is that I always assumed using bluetooth on my players would drain out my players battery more faster.

Hecks no it don't touch the amplification chips on my Fiio M15 so it actually triples the battery life of my player which was a complete surprise.

5 hours on a single charge. Unless you plan on using it the entire day long 5 hours is actually not bad considering it is an amplified sound.  It fully charges the ear pieces every time you throw it in the cradle so no issues with battery cutting out.  I have only charged the cradle two times for the entire time I have been using it for the past 4 weeks.

I know other sets have much longer battery times and these dont have ANC but your not going to care once you hear them. For a first time effort from these guys. The sound more than makes up for any short comings.


----------



## jsmiller58

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Piqued my interest as well, but I've got lofty IEM goals that require saving up for. Would love to try them out, though. They sounds great, @Dsnuts


What do you have your sights set on?


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

jsmiller58 said:


> What do you have your sights set on?


In a perfect world? The EE Odin. More realistically, the Hero. I want a pair that can be supremely fun without losing technicalities, but doesn't become a chore to drive if I decide to use the CF01. Considered the Thie Oracle as well. The DK-3001 Pro are great, but I want something a little less polite 

Depending on the tuning, those Geekfly could be impressive. AAC implementation on my phone isn't the best, so wouldn't be an ideal fit for my use, but that shouldn't detract from anyone else's decision.

Oh and speaking of the Etymotion cable, I still use mine exclusively with the ER4XR and love it. Having aptX HD and that AKM DAC is a real treat. I still think you could potentially use these with other MMCX IEMs in a pinch, but it'd probably be a very wonky fit. Hoping whatever iteration Ety comes up with for the EVO is half as nice as this has been.


----------



## senorbroom

Has anyone else's needs changed during the pandemic? I've been wanting a new set of IEMs (currently using the 65t) for better sound quality but since increasingly working from home I've had to prioritise microphone clarity and multipoint capabilities (switching between work laptop for zoom and personal phone for music). Being on iOS, this pretty much leaves Jabra and Apple as the only options. It's a shame the new 85ts to be a regression in terms of sound quality, and I can't quite bring myself to spend the money on the Airpods Pro considering reports that the sound quality is only average. I'm really hoping that the new WF-1000XM4's and Galaxy Buds 2 implement multi-point and employ better quality microphones this time around.


----------



## chinmie

senorbroom said:


> Has anyone else's needs changed during the pandemic? I've been wanting a new set of IEMs (currently using the 65t) for better sound quality but since increasingly working from home I've had to prioritise microphone clarity and multipoint capabilities (switching between work laptop for zoom and personal phone for music). Being on iOS, this pretty much leaves Jabra and Apple as the only options. It's a shame the new 85ts to be a regression in terms of sound quality, and I can't quite bring myself to spend the money on the Airpods Pro considering reports that the sound quality is only average. I'm really hoping that the new WF-1000XM4's and Galaxy Buds 2 implement multi-point and employ better quality microphones this time around.


 i think many of us do. these days non sealing TWS like the Buds Live and Sabbat Vooplay are my main choices, and only swith to IEM style or ANC when my wife is conferencing in the same room.


----------



## helmutcheese

Lypertek PurePlay Z7 are also due this month (their first higher end) going to cost about about £$199

https://www.lypertek.com/pureplay-z7


----------



## jant71

Dsnuts said:


> Its Bluetooth 5.0 AAC does not mention Aptx unfortunately. Cant complain how it sounds however. What surprised me about these is their internal amplification the sound is full bored all the time always. Very musical.  Another surprising aspect is that I always assumed using bluetooth on my players would drain out my players battery more faster.
> 
> Hecks no it don't touch the amplification chips on my Fiio M15 so it actually triples the battery life of my player which was a complete surprise.
> 
> ...


Well, there was the GF8 so the GF8S is not quite the first effort and the GF8 was a top SQ model.

Not bad as far as battery. My AT wireless have an amp and they get 5 hours but sound pretty damn good. The PI7 using amping quite well but won't be battery champs. It will be interesting on approach with the incoming Sony which has a new chip but not extra amping but they went with LDAC it seems. We will see how it turns out. Soon with both newer low drain amp chips and BT LE and the new codecs we should have both the amped benefit but no longer at the cost of low battery life even with hybrid set ups. Just not yet though. True wireless is getting there step by step.


----------



## TK33

chinmie said:


> i think many of us do. these days non sealing TWS like the Buds Live and Sabbat Vooplay are my main choices, and only swith to IEM style or ANC when my wife is conferencing in the same room.


Same here.  I pretty much use my Galaxy Buds Live exclusively for calls and it switches pretty seamlessly between my Dell laptop and Android phones (or between phones) without having to disconnect first.  Not true multipoint but works for my needs   PI7s have decent mic quality but I recently had to switch back to the Galaxy Buds Live during a Zoom call because I was told they couldn't hear me well and it was much better with the Galaxy Buds Live (think it may have to do with bluetooth connection quality, which has been a bit hit or miss even on my replacement PI7s).


----------



## zeinharis

Looks like Sony is putting out the WF1000XM4 to reviewers. It still under embargo, no details is allowed to share to the public just yet until next week 😜


----------



## SilverEars

zeinharis said:


> Looks like Sony is putting out the WF1000XM4 to reviewers. It still under embargo, no details is allowed to share to the public just yet until next week 😜


Let the hype begin!  And die.  And rinse, and do it all over again with other iems.


----------



## zeinharis

SilverEars said:


> Let the hype begin!  And die.  And rinse, and do it all over again with other iems.


LMAO!


----------



## zeinharis

From Sony Indonesia.


----------



## Caipirina

SilverEars said:


> Let the hype begin!  And die.  And rinse, and do it all over again with other iems.


Good thing I won't have a chance until mid September to spend money on those ... by then hype should be over


----------



## clerkpalmer

Dsnuts said:


> Its Bluetooth 5.0 AAC does not mention Aptx unfortunately. Cant complain how it sounds however. What surprised me about these is their internal amplification the sound is full bored all the time always. Very musical.  Another surprising aspect is that I always assumed using bluetooth on my players would drain out my players battery more faster.
> 
> Hecks no it don't touch the amplification chips on my Fiio M15 so it actually triples the battery life of my player which was a complete surprise.
> 
> ...


Risky to grab these from China for 219. Are these leaps and bounds better than other TWS you have heard? I still feel like the limitations of BT limit how good any TWS can sound. I could be convinced otherwise. Are these comparable to wired IEMs?


----------



## Dsnuts (Jun 3, 2021)

GF8S reminds me of one of the best hybrid earphones I have ever reviewed in the *ISN H40*. They also remind me a bit of the *BQEYZ Spring*.  Both are highly regarded earphones in their given price ranges. ISN H40 still to this day at its price one of the all time best hybrid earphones to get in the price range under $200. Geekfly GF8s matches the dynamism of both these earphones and has a comparable sound signature.

Not all that risky. It is sold on *Penon audio site*. If you never bought anything from Penon they are based out of Hong Kong and have a stout reputation for outstanding service.


----------



## samandhi

Dsnuts said:


> GF8S reminds me of one of the best hybrid earphones I have ever reviewed in the *ISN H40*. They also remind me a bit of the *BQEYZ Spring*.  Both are highly regarded earphones in their given price ranges. ISN H40 still to this day at its price one of the all time best hybrid earphones to get in the price range under $200. Geekfly GF8s matches the dynamism of both these earphone and has a comparable sound signature.
> 
> Not all that risky. It is sold on *Penon audio site*. If you never bought anything from Penon they are based out of Hong Kong and have a stout reputation for outstanding service.


I can't wait until someone comes out with a (good) planar TWS. I am not usually an early adopter, but I might be if/when this happens.


----------



## Dsnuts

Didn't audeze do one? NVM they have a planar wired one but not a TWS. It would make sense to have an internal amplification circuit like what is on the Geekfly GF8S for a planar that would make it sing on the go and be able to use on a phone without amplification. Someone will do it I bet.


----------



## samandhi

Dsnuts said:


> Didn't audeze do one? NVM they have a planar wired one but not a TWS. It would make sense to have an internal amplification circuit like what is on the Geekfly GF8S for a planar that would make it sing on the go and be able to use on a phone without amplification. Someone will do it I bet.


Yeah, and TinHifi also has one (that are MY best under $200), so it isn't like it can't happen. I am still currently mulling over whether to get the iBasso CF01, or Fiio UTWS3 for my P1. @miserybeforethemusic really likes the combination of the P1 and the CF01 (and the Dunu DK3001 also for that matter).

Oh, I am sure they will at some point, but as you know planar are harder to drive and sound well, so the battery life has probably been one of the biggest prohibitive factors in putting some out. I would bet that when they DO come out the cost will be the prohibitive factor in becoming mainstream for a while. 

I agree about having internal amplification for those. I own the Hifiman Deva (which are BT and wired), and I find them to not only sound fantastic wireless, but are up there with some of the best, even wireless. The amplification they are using in the BT dongle are something special IMO... I realize that this is apples to oranges, but these are planar, and BT, and since they have been able to shrink planars down to IEM size this can/probably will happen at some point.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic (Jun 3, 2021)

Well the Azla Crystals have become permanent fixtures on the HiBy WH3. I think that the slight shift in FR definitely helps bring out some really good elements in the WH3, though it's still far from perfect. I can get tonality that sometimes rivals the Noble Falcon Pro, but the NFP also tend to walk all over the WH3 in terms of perceived stage space and midrange-specific technicalities. The NFP are also ridiculously temperamental about connecting back up to my OnePlus 8T after the initial pairing and I have to consider myself very lucky if the app starts up and recognizes my NFPs are connected without at least a few reattempts. In terms of regular practicality, the HiBy do have an advantage.

I almost exclusively use this combo in either the 2700Hz (Balanced) or 10KHz (Hybrid) settings, floating between each depending on the content I'm listening to. The 18KHz "Dynamic" setting is just too washed out. Either the dynamic driver needs a whole lot more break-in time and I just haven't hit it yet or it's just way too underqualified to handle anything but bass content. It's just way too loose in the mids and almost nonexistent in the treble, though I suppose there's people out there who might appreciate the more diffused sound that comes as a result and it could also be used in a pinch to make overly sibilant tracks more tolerable. Personally, I prefer a more clearly-defined stage and letting the BA take priority pays off in dividends.

To put it in perspective, I listened to the following track and cycled between the two presets mentioned previously:

When Hybrid is selected, the overall signature leans towards a wooly, diffused, armchair sort of experience. While the drums hit, there's almost no treble edge to any cymbal or drum hit. Fans of realistic timbres are going to notice that sorely missing. Switching over to Balanced at 2700Hz brings all those overtones back into the mix. Snares regain their snap, cymbals regain their metallic qualities without becoming splashy. From here, I think one really only needs to adjust for wherever their pinna gain frequency would be and you're all set.

While I've said it many times, perhaps it bears repeating the adjustable crossover is the WH3's most compelling feature. For those who are considering the WH2, it might be more worth it to consider the 2-BA arrangement over the single-DD based on what I'm experiencing here. That doesn't necessarily mean I'm happy with HiBy for seemingly dropping development of the WH3, but I also can't complain when it comes to the more relevant daily criteria. Battery life is great. Comfort with the Azla Crystals is fantastic and I don't lose case compatibility when they're on. I don't get connection issues, dropouts, bizarre artifacts, etc.

It just works and, if I've learned anything about trying so many pairs of TWS out, that's far more important than I sometimes take into account.

I am far more comfortable with the overall sound signature than I was in the past as well, especially as I discovered yesterday when it comes to VoIP calling. To be perfectly honest, I prefer the way the WH3 render callers over both sets of Jabra; it's just a more natural, less fatiguing experience. Granted, I can't connect through my computer and have to use my phone, but the end result is better to my ears than what I could muster with both sets of Jabra.



Dsnuts said:


> Didn't audeze do one? NVM they have a planar wired one but not a TWS. It would make sense to have an internal amplification circuit like what is on the Geekfly GF8S for a planar that would make it sing on the go and be able to use on a phone without amplification. Someone will do it I bet.


In theory, the Audeze Euclid could be used with any BT adapter (specifically something like Audeze's own Cipher, but my experience with the iSine10 tells me they need way more current than what most of these adapters can provide in the first place. Closest I've come to a true "wireless planar" experience is using the Tin P1 with a set of iBasso CF01 (@samandhi must have been reading my mind). There's just a lot of restrictions on how to make that the best experience possible that I wouldn't recommend it for anybody but the most avid tweaker. Truth be told, as alluring as the idea of going fully wireless with a planar sounds, they just need more current than that.

One clarification, though: it's the DK-3001 Pro I prefer, though I do wish it were a little less polite sometimes.


----------



## samandhi

miserybeforethemusic said:


> One clarification, though: it's the DK-3001 Pro I prefer, though I do wish it were a little less polite sometimes.


My bad. I knew that, just forgot the put the "Pro" in there...


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

samandhi said:


> My bad. I knew that, just forgot the put the "Pro" in there...


Hah no worries. Just didn't want someone to mistakenly buy the non-Pro model and miss out on the improvements.


----------



## samandhi

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Hah no worries. Just didn't want someone to mistakenly buy the non-Pro model and miss out on the improvements.


At this point, not sure if you can get either of those, until they come out with their updated versions of the DK3001 Pro, and DK2001, but I totally get what you are saying.

From what I have read, the DK3001 and the DK2001 are actually more akin than the 3001 and 3001 Pro. It is getting almost "Hifiman HE400 family" confusing...


----------



## chinmie

samandhi said:


> I own the Hifiman Deva (which are BT and wired), and I find them to not only sound fantastic wireless, but are up there with some of the best, even wireless.



+1 on that. i tried my friend's Deva unit once, and i really like it. i even prefer it paired with it's BT dongle compared connecting it wired to some other BT DAC


----------



## bubsdaddy

Anyone know what's up with no MPOW earbuds being available on Amazon? I went to look for the M30's and they are only available from third party's now. The Flame line is nowhere to be seen either.


----------



## clerkpalmer

chinmie said:


> +1 on that. i tried my friend's Deva unit once, and i really like it. i even prefer it paired with it's BT dongle compared connecting it wired to some other BT DAC


Deva is hands down the best value for headphones on the planet. 229 open box on hfm website with blue mini.  They sound better wired to a dac/amp but they still sound amazing wireless. Hoping HFM expands the use of the blue mini. Technical marvel.


----------



## samandhi (Jun 3, 2021)

clerkpalmer said:


> Deva is hands down the best value for headphones on the planet. 229 open box on hfm website with blue mini.  They sound better wired to a dac/amp but they still sound amazing wireless. Hoping HFM expands the use of the blue mini. Technical marvel.


I just ordered a balanced cable for mine because while they DO sound better wired, they have not enough  volume for those times when you hear a song you just have to crank...  This coming from SE out of my DX160 which is something like 500(ish)mw. Sheesh, planars. 

This is exactly why I think HFM has done some serious magic with the Bluemini. It has plenty (and to spare) volume, and that little thing drives those planars really well. I agree that this may just be the best value AE phones on the planet. I used to think that the HE400S were, but with the added bonus of wireless, you just can't beat that......

Years ago I bought the Sennheiser Momentum 2.0 wireless, and those were the best you could get (at that time). They were also $300, but the HFM offerings blow those out of the water. Nuff' said! lol


bubsdaddy said:


> Anyone know what's up with no MPOW earbuds being available on Amazon? I went to look for the M30's and they are only available from third party's now. The Flame line is nowhere to be seen either.


They might have had some FW issues or maybe they are just out of stock atm. Their store is still on Amazon, you just can't buy anything atm... I have seen this with other products. I am sure they will be back on there. In the meantime, you can buy them from their website if you want.

Edit: BTW! Looking at your avatar, those look like the B&W P5. I still have those.... I think they will last forever (built like a tank).


----------



## senorbroom

New Pixelbuds A announced - $99USD - same quality as previous model: https://www.theverge.com/22465651/google-pixel-buds-a-series-earbuds-review-features-price


----------



## Thesonofkrypton

Might pick up a pair of those for running, seem cheap enough and looks like it’s got good reviews for sound and fit.

The hype on the Sony’s will be real, come on they’re not Cambridge audio or B+W, they know their crap lol, don’t expect them to have connection / pairing issues out the box!


----------



## jant71 (Jun 3, 2021)

Since they are on Amazon, any Sabbat fans getting on the E16 train??
https://www.amazon.com/Sabbat-E16-B...qid=1622757001&sourceid=Mozilla-search&sr=8-3


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

The review queue is loaded again!




It's about time these Status showed up...


----------



## bladefd

zeinharis said:


> Looks like Sony is putting out the WF1000XM4 to reviewers. It still under embargo, no details is allowed to share to the public just yet until next week 😜


They probably had to sign non-disclosure agreements with Sony to not publicly discuss or release anything until Sony gives the okay


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

bladefd said:


> They probably had to sign non-disclosure agreements with Sony to not publicly discuss or release anything until Sony gives the okay


In my experience, it's usually nothing that formal. Usually, the review team just gets told when the embargo lifts and anybody who violates the review embargo just doesn't get invited to play again. Pretty sure they have to return their gear as well, but that may not always be the case.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

Thesonofkrypton said:


> Might pick up a pair of those for running, seem cheap enough and looks like it’s got good reviews for sound and fit.
> 
> The hype on the Sony’s will be real, come on they’re not Cambridge audio or B+W, they know their *** lol, don’t expect them to have connection / pairing issues out the box!


I do my best to expect nothing from every pair that shows up to my door now. It's tough, but really helps stave off the disappointment 

I was all prepared to come in with initial impressions of the Between Pro, but there's no way I'm ready for that yet. I find a lot of things about this pair interesting. Some of them are interesting in a good way, a couple not so much. I'll keep you posted. For now, here's another glamour shot:




Case is pretty awkward, FYI. There's no real markings to reference, so hopefully you can recognize how to line the buds up when inserting them into the case. Charging plug is on the bottom as well, which I'm not the biggest fan of. Can't complain for too much at the current price point, though. If they cheap out a little on the case to make sure more goes into the drivers/tuning, that's fine by me.


----------



## tinyman392

bladefd said:


> They probably had to sign non-disclosure agreements with Sony to not publicly discuss or release anything until Sony gives the okay


Embargo typically means you can’t say anything about it. No NDAs are signed. But if you say anything, guess who isn’t getting embargo’d press releases anymore due to a pissed off PR rep? 


miserybeforethemusic said:


> In my experience, it's usually nothing that formal. Usually, the review team just gets told when the embargo lifts and anybody who violates the review embargo just doesn't get invited to play again. Pretty sure they have to return their gear as well, but that may not always be the case.


Most companies tend to let the reviewers keep the product. Sony is one of the few that doesn’t, however (unless they changed it up in the past decade).


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

tinyman392 said:


> Most companies tend to let the reviewers keep the product. Sony is one of the few that doesn’t, however (unless they changed it up in the past decade).


Was referring more to those who violated the embargo itself. Somehow it doesn't surprise me that Sony would ask for product back, even though they probably have some of the largest margins in the game to be able to absorb not profiting from a few review samples.

I did get to keep my OnePlus 6T. Screen died a few months later, but they did let me keep it


----------



## jsmiller58

miserybeforethemusic said:


> The review queue is loaded again!
> 
> 
> 
> It's about time these Status showed up...


Christmas in June...


----------



## samandhi

miserybeforethemusic said:


> The review queue is loaded again!
> 
> 
> 
> It's about time these Status showed up...


WOW! I had some amount of despair for you on these, thinking you would never get them. Gratz (on the new E1DA also)!


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

samandhi said:


> WOW! I had some amount of despair for you on these, thinking you would never get them. Gratz (on the new E1DA also)!


One step closer to a mobile "test bench" of sorts. Those E1DA units have to be one of the most insane values in the portable sub-$100 DAC/amp market. Really hope Ivan eventually takes a crack at TWS amplification. Would completely turn the market on its head if he could.


----------



## chinmie

just got an email from Tronsmart, they're having a giveaway to celebrate their anniversary, so i just post it here in case anyone's interested to participate:



*Tronsmart Celebrates the 8th Birthday*​
*LONDON 15th Jun 2021:* Consumer technology expert, Tronsmart, today celebrates its 8th birthday. They are also giving away a number of prizes, including a gift box worth $500, newly launched Apollo Air and Air+ earbuds, and 15% off coupon for geekbuying. The gift box includes a Tronsmart Element T2 Plus Portable Bluetooth Speaker, a pair of Tronsmart Onyx Ace TWS earbuds, as well as customized pen and notebook. Anyone can click her to win them.

*First prize*: Gift Box valued over $500*30pcs

*Second Prize*: $99 ANC earbuds Apollo Air+*30pcs

*Third Prize*: $69 ANC earbuds Apollo Air *50pcs

*Lucky prize*: 15% OFF coupon for geekbuying

Established in 2013 and celebrating its 8th Anniversary today, Tronsmart is a tech brand that designs and manufactures world-class tech accessories which has been recommended by Qualcomm, Forbes, Yahoo, and many other big companies and media. It also signed Luis Suarez as the official ambassador in 2018. The company has rapidly expanded and sell its products to over 70 countries in many regions including North America, South America, Europe, The Middle East and Asia and has over 40 patents including its SoundPulse® technology. The core value of Tronsmart is to make life easier by providing customers with high-tech, high-quality and high-performance products.

Hope all you can win the gift you want in this competition.

Link to 8th anniversary landing page:

https://www.tronsmart.com/8-year-anniversary.htm


----------



## samandhi

miserybeforethemusic said:


> One step closer to a mobile "test bench" of sorts. Those E1DA units have to be one of the most insane values in the portable sub-$100 DAC/amp market. Really hope Ivan eventually takes a crack at TWS amplification. Would completely turn the market on its head if he could.


Yeah, at only $59 for that E1DA V2, if I were in the market for a new DAC, I would give it a shot! But, since we have you to be the guinea pig.........


----------



## CocaCola15

bubsdaddy said:


> Anyone know what's up with no MPOW earbuds being available on Amazon? I went to look for the M30's and they are only available from third party's now. The Flame line is nowhere to be seen either.


Busted by Amazon along with Aukey for posting fake reviews etc. Search for mpow amazon ban. Happened around May 11.


----------



## samandhi

CocaCola15 said:


> Busted by Amazon along with Aukey for posting fake reviews etc. Search for mpow amazon ban. Happened around May 11.


WOW! They had the gaul to think they could get away with that with all the scrutiny on Amazon over this very thing? They must not have gotten the memo...


----------



## CocaCola15

miserybeforethemusic said:


> I do my best to expect nothing from every pair that shows up to my door now. It's tough, but really helps stave off the disappointment
> 
> I was all prepared to come in with initial impressions of the Between Pro, but there's no way I'm ready for that yet. I find a lot of things about this pair interesting. Some of them are interesting in a good way, a couple not so much. I'll keep you posted. For now, here's another glamour shot:
> 
> ...


Case is a mess, have to grab the phones by the tips. Easier to get them in. I got used to it. Looking forward to your take.
 Tonight is ES100 + cheap wired IEM night. Blon 03 with balanced cable, Blon Mini and the Zero Carbo Tenore. All $30 or so, and they all sound great. I’m so easy.


----------



## Plumbus the Wise

CocaCola15 said:


> Case is a mess, have to grab the phones by the tips. Easier to get them in. I got used to it. Looking forward to your take.
> Tonight is ES100 + cheap wired IEM night. Blon 03 with balanced cable, Blon Mini and the Zero Carbo Tenore. All $30 or so, and they all sound great. I’m so easy.


Have you tried the bl03 or bl01 with the TRN bt3s?  Been a great combo for me.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

samandhi said:


> Yeah, at only $59 for that E1DA V2, if I were in the market for a new DAC, I would give it a shot! But, since we have you to be the guinea pig.........


Based off my experience with the 9038D alone, they're a blind buy recommendation. Without question. If you want the more portable one, go 9038. Want something beefy enough to power HD600s? Get the PowerDAC.

But I'll run it through its paces for ya sometime this weekend 


CocaCola15 said:


> Case is a mess, have to grab the phones by the tips. Easier to get them in. I got used to it. Looking forward to your take.
> Tonight is ES100 + cheap wired IEM night. Blon 03 with balanced cable, Blon Mini and the Zero Carbo Tenore. All $30 or so, and they all sound great. I’m so easy.


Glad it's not just me. I've been trying to pinch the outside end and have had horrible luck.

They're very comfortable, though. Any negative marks I have about the sound signature right now don't fully take into account their asking price, so I'm doing what I can to stay fair. These lean closer to the "enlightened consumer" end of the sound signature for me; definite emphasis on lower bass and spatial cues in the upper midrange, but not altogether coherent in between. Midrange detail definitely belies the amount of bass energy, though, and that's a pretty good thing.


----------



## CocaCola15

Dr Rez said:


> Have you tried the bl03 or bl01 with the TRN bt3s?  Been a great combo for me.


No, tempted. But I am all good on TW in-ears.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

CocaCola15 said:


> No, tempted. But I am all good on TW in-ears.


That Mini looks pretty cute. With the right adapter, could make for a really stealth TWS. Haven't gotten on the BLON train, though. Barely survived the KZ rabbit-hole. Don't know if I can go through that again.


----------



## CocaCola15 (Jun 3, 2021)

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Based off my experience with the 9038D alone, they're a blind buy recommendation. Without question. If you want the more portable one, go 9038. Want something beefy enough to power HD600s? Get the PowerDAC.
> 
> But I'll run it through its paces for ya sometime this weekend
> 
> ...


My incoherent brain must be a perfect match! Although I do like the “enlightened consumer” tag!
Kidding aside, they were $79 for me. They do require more fiddling for a solid fit than most. But it pays to have relatively old, less than perfect ears. A feature, not a frill!


----------



## CocaCola15 (Jun 3, 2021)

miserybeforethemusic said:


> That Mini looks pretty cute. With the right adapter, could make for a really stealth TWS. Haven't gotten on the BLON train, though. Barely survived the KZ rabbit-hole. Don't know if I can go through that again.


The mini is arguably the most comfortable in-ear I’ve ever tried. Have them in now. Carla Bruni sounds pretty sweet.

I believe  BLON has many fewer models than KZ. I’ve had the 03s for a long time. Love them. Bought cheap balanced cable for the ES100. I may need to try that BT adapter. It’s like $30 on ebay.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

CocaCola15 said:


> My incoherent brain must be a perfect match! Although I do like the “enlightened consumer” tag!
> Kidding aside, they were $79 for me. They do require more fiddling for a solid fit than most. But it pays to have relatively old, less than perfect ears. A feature, not a frill!


I definitely don't mean it as a diss. I like a lot of what I'm hearing from the Between Pro, but the bass is a bit too large and diffused for some tracks that I know should be presented leaner. It's still got a phenomenal presence and the price tag reigns supreme. Not fair to knock on this relative to a lot of what's out there, especially under $100.

Status is doing well so far. They nailed the ergonomics in a pretty novel way. Reminds me a bit of Audeze's wing-tip strategy for the iSine10 and that works amazingly well for its size. Makes them really comfortable for long-term wear.


----------



## PixelSquish

Excited for the Sony's. Will most likely buy immediately if they are under $300 and the reviews don't say they laid an egg. I am in need of some really high quality ANC these days which I was not prior. So that's something I expect these buds to do really well.


----------



## SemiAudiophile

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Based off my experience with the 9038D alone, they're a blind buy recommendation. Without question. If you want the more portable one, go 9038. Want something beefy enough to power HD600s? Get the PowerDAC.


The 9038S has piqued my interest. Do you know if I can use 4.4mm to 2.5mm balanced adapters on them? I mostly have 4.4mm balanced cables. I read that the adapters can damage them? The other thing that worries me is the interference with mobile signals 5G/LTE. I guess I can use them with WiFi only? Having to manually configure volume settings seem like a pain too.


----------



## VICosPhi

PixelSquish said:


> Excited for the Sony's. Will most likely buy immediately if they are under $300 and the reviews don't say they laid an egg. I am in need of some really high quality ANC these days which I was not prior. So that's something I expect these buds to do really well.


Same here. Been quite happy with my Sennheiser MTW2 as I consider them a complete package with ANC, touch controls, supreme SQ and there isn't much out there in TWS space that challenges the MTW2 spec for spec except the Sonys. Also Sennheiser sold their consumer business so don't have high confidence on MTW3 whenever those get released.


----------



## Ra97oR

I  hope the new WF-1000XM4 (horrible name) will bundle with the Xperia 1 III. 

As long as it's not some super boomy tuning, I am excited about having a TWS with LDAC support!


----------



## Slowhand

Is there any details yet on whether the XM4's feature larger drivers than the XM3's?


----------



## chinmie

Slowhand said:


> Is there any details yet on whether the XM4's feature larger drivers than the XM3's?



haven't found any news on that, but judging from that lack of info and their past products, I'd say they would use the same driver tech and make improvements on the software side.. but that's just my guess


----------



## jsmiller58

SemiAudiophile said:


> The 9038S has piqued my interest. Do you know if I can use 4.4mm to 2.5mm balanced adapters on them? I mostly have 4.4mm balanced cables. I read that the adapters can damage them? The other thing that worries me is the interference with mobile signals 5G/LTE. I guess I can use them with WiFi only? Having to manually configure volume settings seem like a pain too.


There should not be an issue going balanced 4.4 to balanced 2.5.  The issue is when you use an adapter to go from single ended cable to balanced output jack (though there is no issue using an adapter to go from balanced cable to single ended jack).

I haven’t used my 9038S in a long time so I don’t remember how it fares with EMI.  Lack of volume adjustment is a bit of a pain.

There is a head-fi thread on the 9038S and other E1DA offerings where there will be pretty knowledgeable folks.


----------



## clerkpalmer

Do we think the Sony will be available immediately or some sort of month long preorder nonsense?


----------



## cresny

Slowhand said:


> Is there any details yet on whether the XM4's feature larger drivers than the XM3's?





PixelSquish said:


> Excited for the Sony's. Will most likely buy immediately if they are under $300 and the reviews don't say they laid an egg. I am in need of some really high quality ANC these days which I was not prior. So that's something I expect these buds to do really well.


Based on the youtube teaser and that big gold bullseye (mic?) sticking out the sides I expect the killer feature will be class leading ANC, possibly tackling higher frequency noise. I'm happy with my Geminis' 10mm driver and unlike most here I'm a one-phone kind of guy, but should Sony also have larger drivers that would put these over the top for me.


----------



## go0gle

Still no LE Audio? Are we looking at end of 2021/early 22 for that to start shipping? 

Looking like Im gonna hold on to my LP2s for a a little longer.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

jsmiller58 said:


> There should not be an issue going balanced 4.4 to balanced 2.5.  The issue is when you use an adapter to go from single ended cable to balanced output jack (though there is no issue using an adapter to go from balanced cable to single ended jack).
> 
> I haven’t used my 9038S in a long time so I don’t remember how it fares with EMI.  Lack of volume adjustment is a bit of a pain.
> 
> There is a head-fi thread on the 9038S and other E1DA offerings where there will be pretty knowledgeable folks.


Can't speak on EMI from the S, but the D can be prone to it if it's too close to your phone. I'll hear the odd digital noise in between tracks every now and then, but never during. No idea of converting 4.4 down to 2.5, though. I know it can happen in the reverse order, though.

Volume adjustment can be temperamental, too, but I take advantage of the min/max volume adjustments so I maintain usable volume control. I think that's the real trick to making it work.


----------



## Thesonofkrypton

Slowhand said:


> Is there any details yet on whether the XM4's feature larger drivers than the XM3's?


Read on WalkmanBlog that one listing mentioned 6mm driver size but not 100% confirmed and we won't know for sure until next week at the announcement.


----------



## Thesonofkrypton

clerkpalmer said:


> Do we think the Sony will be available immediately or some sort of month long preorder nonsense?


I'm hoping it's available the same month.  The two listings we've all seen, don't seem to mention any dates but I assume they've listed it in preparation for sale soon.


----------



## clerkpalmer

Thesonofkrypton said:


> I'm hoping it's available the same month.  The two listings we've all seen, don't seem to mention any dates but I assume they've listed it in preparation for sale soon.


I’m utterly sick of preorders. I hope they are ready to roll and I hope they try for a more balanced audiophile sound over what has become a warmish Sony house sound.


----------



## clerkpalmer

This article claims new drivers:

https://www.phonearena.com/news/Sony-WF-1000XM4-wireless-earbuds-announced-June-8_id132554


----------



## Caipirina

clerkpalmer said:


> Do we think the Sony will be available immediately or some sort of month long preorder nonsense?


They are already out at reviewers and lots of stuff leaked ... my guess is they are ready to ship ... depends on where  2 summers ago I had terrible delays on the SP800N to the point that I cancelled my order


----------



## SemiAudiophile

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Can't speak on EMI from the S, but the D can be prone to it if it's too close to your phone. I'll hear the odd digital noise in between tracks every now and then, but never during. No idea of converting 4.4 down to 2.5, though. I know it can happen in the reverse order, though.
> 
> Volume adjustment can be temperamental, too, but I take advantage of the min/max volume adjustments so I maintain usable volume control. I think that's the real trick to making it work.


Any idea if he plans to build a Bluetooth version with LDAC? I might hold off until then. 

I've been really digging the BTR5 the last few days. It's the perfect companion for IEMs on the go IMO. Makes me wonder why I didn't purchase them sooner. Although, I still like my Hip Dac a lot, the BTR5 just seems to be pair better with a wider variety of IEMs. Having such wonderful sound and power in such a tiny device is quite amazing. Only reason I chose the Hip Dac in the beginning was the MQA license and it's sleek design and power output. Still a great, lovely sounding DAC though. 👍


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

SemiAudiophile said:


> Any idea if he plans to build a Bluetooth version with LDAC? I might hold off until then.
> 
> I've been really digging the BTR5 the last few days. It's the perfect companion for IEMs on the go IMO. Makes me wonder why I didn't purchase them sooner. Although, I still like my Hip Dac a lot, the BTR5 just seems to be pair better with a wider variety of IEMs. Having such wonderful sound and power in such a tiny device is quite amazing. Only reason I chose the Hip Dac in the beginning was the MQA license and it's sleek design and power output. Still a great, lovely sounding DAC though. 👍


I don't think he's even considered using BT for audio transport yet. The PowerDAC utilizes BT for making adjustments, but that's it. Rock-solid stable as a result, though.

And if you've already gotten something that you dig, I say stick with it. Just know of a lot of people who need something like the Schiit Fulla and now have something they can get for a fraction of the price. That's pretty neat.

Do I think the amplification tech from the PowerDAC will find its way into something wearable, though? Probably not. Maybe the 9038 could be condensed in form factor a bit, but the PowerDAC generates an almost tube-level amount of heat. It also generates absolute gobs of power. I'll have to break out the 6XX in a bit to see just how much headroom they give me, but I can't bring the volume much higher than -30dB when using the P1 and about -50dB with the 3001 Pro. If you're ever looking for something to use at a desk, I think it'd do wonders for the EST112.


----------



## PixelSquish

VICosPhi said:


> Same here. Been quite happy with my Sennheiser MTW2 as I consider them a complete package with ANC, touch controls, supreme SQ and there isn't much out there in TWS space that challenges the MTW2 spec for spec except the Sonys. Also Sennheiser sold their consumer business so don't have high confidence on MTW3 whenever those get released.



I'm in the same boat, have the MTW2. Everything about them is great except the ANC is pretty mediocre. I did try several other big hitters in the space but they all had a fatal flaw so returned them all. Also the MTW2 battery life at full volume is so-so. But still ok though. I'm hoping the new Sony's will be a nice pair to pair with the MTW2 and that will be my loadout for another year.

Did the previous Sony TWS buds support AptX?


----------



## tinyman392 (Jun 4, 2021)

PixelSquish said:


> I'm in the same boat, have the MTW2. Everything about them is great except the ANC is pretty mediocre. I did try several other big hitters in the space but they all had a fatal flaw so returned them all. Also the MTW2 battery life at full volume is so-so. But still ok though. I'm hoping the new Sony's will be a nice pair to pair with the MTW2 and that will be my loadout for another year.
> 
> Did the previous Sony TWS buds support AptX?


It does not look like Sony's previous TWS buds supported AptX.  However, their headphones and neckbands do though...

Edit: I'm looking through the list and while the XM3 (over ear) is shown the XM4 is absent from the list.
Edit 2: If you look on the product pages for the WF-1000XM3 (TWS), AptX is absent from the specs.


----------



## jsmiller58

clerkpalmer said:


> I’m utterly sick of preorders. I hope they are ready to roll and I hope they try for a more balanced audiophile sound over what has become a warmish Sony house sound.


Nobody outside of Sony and its retail partners will know about actual availability (dates and quantities), but that will become apparent in a few days...  As to sound, well, it makes sense if you are concerned to wait for reviews and comparisons to other IEMs.  I certainly am interested in the XM4, but they will be at a price point beyond “discretionary” for me so I will wait to hear what others have to say before taking the plunge...!


----------



## jant71

Mentioned them yesterday and a Gamesky video today


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

jant71 said:


> Mentioned them yesterday and a Gamesky video today



Maybe he's lurking hahaha

That or you're ahead of the curve when it comes to the Chi-Fi TWS hype train


----------



## jant71

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Maybe he's lurking hahaha
> 
> That or you're ahead of the curve when it comes to the Chi-Fi TWS hype train


Chi-Fi means of course no ambient once again. Too many presses for volume 3 up and 3 down. They seem to sound good. The right tips and some Cowon EQ would be interesting to see how good they can get. Always like the shape since they have the rear bump that let's you press on them w/o making them sink in to the ear more. Might keep an eye for a good sale. Also think if he says they leak and are bright I'm thinking a better seal is there for the taking  Sure they could use other tips to get the best out of them. They probably come with the too soft kind like a KZ.


----------



## Luke Skywalker (Jun 4, 2021)

miserybeforethemusic said:


> PM me with some audition material and how you think it should sound. I don't mind being brutally honest.
> 
> Sure do, bud, but I ditched Tidal so only the Qobuz and Spotify ones are left. PM me and I'll hook it up. Probably spam enough links in this thread to have a target on my back.
> 
> When CanJam starts back up, I might need a bodyguard...


Ha cool I just PMd you. I’m planning on going to canjam as soon as I can make it happen. I was going to go to the one in Chicago to get impressions made for some Elysiums but I cancelled the trip bc of COVID


----------



## Luke Skywalker (Jun 4, 2021)

bronco1015 said:


> The music I refer to in this post was local files, but I do have some playlists in Amazon music HD I could share, don't have any in Spotify but could create one if you don't have Amazon music HD.


Ah nice I have quite a few local files too.  DSDs sound incredible.

right now I’m rolling with Tidal and Qobuz.  How does Amazon compare?

I came across an app or some kind of product a while back that synchronizes playlists and songs between services but I can’t remember where I saw it. I’m kind wasting storage on my DAP SD card because I have some of the same tracks stored offline.


----------



## bubsdaddy

CocaCola15 said:


> Busted by Amazon along with Aukey for posting fake reviews etc. Search for mpow amazon ban. Happened around May 11.


What a shame. Mpow has quality products and shouldn’t have thought they needed shill reviews.


----------



## Luke Skywalker

clerkpalmer said:


> Having trouble deciphering Apples “lossless” announcement today. It’s not clear whether and how this will be done wirelessly? Seems to be a lot of confusion.  They say a DAC is required for true lossless which makes me think this is a wired solution? I don’t see anything about improving or replacing AAC for streaming but the information is scant.


I heard once that AirPlay is lossless, but that uses WiFi. I thought for sure that they’d have AirPods headphones that used that instead of Bluetooth which would be pretty wicked


----------



## Slowhand

Luke Skywalker said:


> I heard once that AirPlay is lossless, but that uses WiFi. I thought for sure that they’d have AirPods headphones that used that instead of Bluetooth which would be pretty wicked


Airplay is 16bit / 44.1kHz aka CD-quality. I assume wifi chips much more power hungry in comparison and TWS as a device is still heavily limited by sheer physics.


----------



## jant71

bubsdaddy said:


> What a shame. Mpow has quality products and shouldn’t have thought they needed shill reviews.


There is always Amazon Japan. Still 1 M5 Plus left and ships to the US...


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

Slowhand said:


> Airplay is 16bit / 44.1kHz aka CD-quality. I assume wifi chips much more power hungry in comparison and TWS as a device is still heavily limited by sheer physics.


Yep. It's a combo of the power management and having to acquire licensure for WiFi transmission of audio. Being this late to the game, Apple doesn't have much to be able to make their own, but they also strike me as being fundamentally against a licensing play with someone like Sonos. It'll be interesting to see how they manage it.


----------



## samandhi

jant71 said:


> Mentioned them yesterday and a Gamesky video today



Those look fantastic. So for aesthetics they get an A+, but pressing 3 times for volume control??? That is just ridiculous setting the second most used setting as the hardest to do on the fly. In the grand scheme of things, it is not really that hard, but you get what I'm saying.

As for sound? What would you compare them to sound signature-wise? I am not really interested at this point in buying them (per se'), as I have plenty to keep me occupied ATM, but one never knows right?!


----------



## TK33

Luke Skywalker said:


> Ah nice I have quite a few local files too.  DSDs sound incredible.
> 
> right now I’m rolling with Tidal and Qobuz.  How does Amazon compare?
> 
> I came across an app or some kind of product a while back that synchronizes playlists and songs between services but I can’t remember where I saw it. I’m kind wasting storage on my DAP SD card because I have some of the same tracks stored offline.


Are you thinking of Soundiiz?


----------



## jant71

samandhi said:


> Those look fantastic. So for aesthetics they get an A+, but pressing 3 times for volume control??? That is just ridiculous setting the second most used setting as the hardest to do on the fly. In the grand scheme of things, it is not really that hard, but you get what I'm saying.
> 
> As for sound? What would you compare them to sound signature-wise? I am not really interested at this point in buying them (per se'), as I have plenty to keep me occupied ATM, but one never knows right?!



Don't have them so can't tell for sure what the sig really is or how the driver set-up presents. Interesting this pic...



People talking about the high detail also makes me think this could be the Magnetostat like in the Shuoer Tape and the BGVP Zero. In that case I could say what it might sound like cause I did have the tape  Very feasible cause the Zero was $79 so these being $99 is not out of the question. Weird naming might be a clue since they can't use the magnetostat name so Noble used it and called it something, Shuoer called it Electrostat, BGVP EST etc. so Sabbat going with the odd balanced membrane thing seems like another we had to come up with a name cause we can't call it magnetostat situation.


----------



## chinmie

SemiAudiophile said:


> Any idea if he plans to build a Bluetooth version with LDAC? I might hold off until then.
> 
> I've been really digging the BTR5 the last few days. It's the perfect companion for IEMs on the go IMO. Makes me wonder why I didn't purchase them sooner. Although, I still like my Hip Dac a lot, the BTR5 just seems to be pair better with a wider variety of IEMs. Having such wonderful sound and power in such a tiny device is quite amazing. Only reason I chose the Hip Dac in the beginning was the MQA license and it's sleek design and power output. Still a great, lovely sounding DAC though. 👍



the BTR5 is a great product that i recommend a lot to my friends. if i haven't owned my BlueDAC already, i might have purchase it, as it has a better build, transport control, and smaller footprint, while sound-wise i still prefer the BlueDAC slightly. 

Hip DAC is also good, but nowadays i can't stand the hassle of being tethered to my music player. the sound improvement from the BTR5 is minimal enough that i prefer the BTR5 more (and even like the sound better in some instances) 



jant71 said:


> Mentioned them yesterday and a Gamesky video today




always love the Sabbat, i see this one adopts the newer Vooplay case, which is better. the only thing that i don't get is why Sabbat still doesn't have a support app for their product at this time of day, seeing even the cheaper chifis like the QCY or Haylou would have one.


----------



## SemiAudiophile (Jun 4, 2021)

chinmie said:


> the BTR5 is a great product that i recommend a lot to my friends. if i haven't owned my BlueDAC already, i might have purchase it, as it has a better build, transport control, and smaller footprint, while sound-wise i still prefer the BlueDAC slightly.
> 
> Hip DAC is also good, but nowadays i can't stand the hassle of being tethered to my music player. the sound improvement from the BTR5 is minimal enough that i prefer the BTR5 more (and even like the sound better in some instances)


Yeah, I love this little thing BTR5. It's a near perfect device in my book. The size reminds me of a an old iPod shuffle (USB stick). Those things used to cost a $100 bucks back in the day. 😅

If I had to really nitpick, it would be that it has a 2.5mm instead of 4.4mm balanced jack. Made me buy a Fiio LB-4.4m cable. And I wish that it could mirror my phone and make use of that beautiful OLED display, so that I could switch playlists or albums in Tidal, etc.  Instead of having to pick up my phone.

I agree. The Hip DAC attached to my phone is like carrying a brick. I like to browse on my phone while listening to music and this makes my arm tired. Having a Bluetooth transport with LDAC is really nice. I have to make sure I'm on optimal  quality setting everytime I connect though. It sets to adaptive by default.


----------



## samandhi

jant71 said:


> Don't have them so can't tell for sure what the sig really is or how the driver set-up presents. Interesting this pic...
> 
> People talking about the high detail also makes me think this could be the Magnetostat like in the Shuoer Tape and the BGVP Zero. In that case I could say what it might sound like cause I did have the tape  Very feasible cause the Zero was $79 so these being $99 is not out of the question. Weird naming might be a clue since they can't use the magnetostat name so Noble used it and called it something, Shuoer called it Electrostat, BGVP EST etc. so Sabbat going with the odd balanced membrane thing seems like another we had to come up with a name cause we can't call it magnetostat situation.


I find it odd that they chose to call it something besides Orthodynamics (planar), but to call it an electrostatic driver seems like it is false. Normally with an elctrostatic driver, you need a special amp that converts normal electricity to static electricity. I might be behind on my driver "lore" here so forgive if I'm wrong. 

As for Magnetostatic drivers, this is the same way a planar magnetic driver works. Sure there might be some differences to make them different (propritary), but it seems (from the reading I have done on them) they are overall the same.

Can you confirm or correct me on this?


----------



## chinmie (Jun 4, 2021)

samandhi said:


> I find it odd that they chose to call it something besides Orthodynamics (planar), but to call it an electrostatic driver seems like it is false. Normally with an elctrostatic driver, you need a special amp that converts normal electricity to static electricity. I might be behind on my driver "lore" here so forgive if I'm wrong.
> 
> As for Magnetostatic drivers, this is the same way a planar magnetic driver works. Sure there might be some differences to make them different (propritary), but it seems (from the reading I have done on them) they are overall the same.
> 
> Can you confirm or correct me on this?



the translation /description are a bit over the places, some website saying it's a dynamic and BA driver hybrid (calling it DM driver), some say 2 DD config, and also one website saying it planar tech


----------



## FYLegend

Here is my review of the SoundPeats T2. Due to a number of issues encountered which may or may not be due to a faulty unit, I have decided to include a weighted and unweighted score depending on the scenario. I have also included details about using the AirReps156x app to enable/adjust some features, which might also work on many other Airoha earbuds. Unfortunately the T2 has the EQ feature disabled - it works fine on my TaoTronics 94 but adjustment is cumbersome and the default setting sounds worse than the original tuning..

https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/so...reless-earbuds-tws.25068/reviews#review-26000


----------



## Peddler

Tronsmart are producing some excellent products at affordable prices.  Whilst I still think my Sony WF1000XM3's sound, look and feel better than their Tronsmart counterparts, they still represent excellent value for money. They have kindly sent me pretty much their entire catalogue of bluetooth products to review and haven't put any pressure on me to award them with top marks. The truth is that their products deserve the praise.  I think it's a bit of a shame about Mpow - I also rated their products highly for their value for money but I guess they really need to trust in their products a bit more and not try to influence genuine reviewers.

These new Sony WF1000XM4's do look interesting but I'm very reluctant to spend any more money on headphones as I already have way too many in my collection (although I can pretty much rationalise the need for each one - I bet I'm not alone there!). Since getting my WF1000XM3 and WH1000XM2's I've resisted buying any more.

The truth is, I'm getting old and I have to accept that my hearing isn't going to be as good as in my teens.  I can't help thinking that we're rapidly approaching the stage where any improvements to the sound are going to be quite subtle for me.  I love the sound of the Sony WF and WH headphones - whilst I accept that they're not the most accurate out there, they are extremely 'musical' in my opinion and I'm still happy with my purchase.

Due to their price I tend to only use the Sony's for static stuff - they're just too damned expensive to accidentally run them over with the lawnmower!  This is where Tronsmart's Apollo Bold and Apollo Air's come into their own.


----------



## FYLegend

jant71 said:


> Chi-Fi means of course no ambient once again. Too many presses for volume 3 up and 3 down. They seem to sound good. The right tips and some Cowon EQ would be interesting to see how good they can get. Always like the shape since they have the rear bump that let's you press on them w/o making them sink in to the ear more. Might keep an eye for a good sale. Also think if he says they leak and are bright I'm thinking a better seal is there for the taking  Sure they could use other tips to get the best out of them. They probably come with the too soft kind like a KZ.


I didn't mind the triple press on the E12 Ultra as it worked very well and quick. More annoying is that I've had other earbuds where triple or double taps must be made with a certain timing. Not sure why Chi-Fi are ditching ambient. Disappointed at this price point and I do wonder if the chipset itself is capable of it as well.

If there's some Qualcomm API available out there why can't someone just make a third-party app that has the option to enable ambient or ANC (if the chipset supports it). Does GAIA Control have this? There's an app for Airoha devices (AirReps156X) but it's unavailable for iOS or Windows 10 (but the adjustments you make in the Android app can be temporarily retained until you power them off).

The shape looks nice, the originals did not stay in my ears well and I did not get why people were saying it was good enough. I also don't have much confidence in Sabbat QC - I know many have received good units but I've been 2-times unlucky so far (both of my E12 and E12 Ultra had channel imbalance).


----------



## FYLegend

Peddler said:


> Tronsmart are producing some excellent products at affordable prices.  Whilst I still think my Sony WF1000XM3's sound, look and feel better than their Tronsmart counterparts, they still represent excellent value for money. They have kindly sent me pretty much their entire catalogue of bluetooth products to review and haven't put any pressure on me to award them with top marks. The truth is that their products deserve the praise.  I think it's a bit of a shame about Mpow - I also rated their products highly for their value for money but I guess they really need to trust in their products a bit more and not try to influence genuine reviewers.


I would like to try Tronsmart more, but their lack of availability on Amazon.ca and long Aliexpress/Geekbuying shipping keeps me hanging. My Onyx Neo had some channel imbalance and was disappointed by the battery life. Tronsmart's required that I send it back to China before getting a replacement and I decided not to follow with that. Meanwhile some of these budget brands on Amazon would freely ship replacements almost without any warning (no tracking number or anything).

Can't speak for MPOW or Aukey but I did run into something similar with TaoTronics. The box had a giftcard soliciting a 5-star review. If the product was good I would have given them such but it was defective. Unfortunately the replacement also had the same defect albeit less severe and I was still dissatisfied with the case battery life - the company offered a partial refund (no strings attached) but after this they started spamming me weekly to "add another star for service". IF Amazon did have a "customer service/afterservice" rating category, I would give them a high rating, but I also suspect Amazon wants to appear as a single entity embodying these sellers so it is not in their interest to implement something like this. I have seen people give bad ratings for a product wit

It's shady practice and quite annoying, but genuine or not they at least give the _sense _to care for customers, unlike Samsung reps who play coy with issues with the "do a factory reset"/"get a replacement" gag.  I think the bigger violation is that many of these brands are offering full refunds for normal purchases. They will put out a Facebook ad or have a different seller name (especially in Canada). Correct me if I'm wrong but I recall reading that only the seller not the customer is  held liable in this situation. However, is this really any different than mainstream reviewers getting review units? I enjoy watching Gamesky, El Jefe, Sean Talks Tech among others but I always have to keep in mind they are using review units. Sean is one of my favourites but he got the SONGX wireless earbuds which really infuriated some of the Indiegogo backers who never received their product.



CocaCola15 said:


> Busted by Amazon along with Aukey for posting fake reviews etc. Search for mpow amazon ban. Happened around May 11.


Well, TaoTronics is still out there among other brands. Not sure how bad MPOW and Aukey were, but TT basically spammed my inbox every week with a "please add another star to your review" request.

Out of all my daily driver earbuds the Galaxy Buds+ has been the worse in terms of reliablity in the long run. The right bud would drain after 2 weeks of inactivity requiring a slow trickle charge, and now it is also much lower in volume.


----------



## zeinharis (Jun 5, 2021)

I have bad news and good news.

The bad news is that I won’t able to get my hands on the new Nuarl N10 Plus, because the Nuarl’s authorized dealer here in my country won’t be stocking it for some reasons  😔.

The good news is that the WF1000XM4 is definitely worth the upgrade if you coming from XM3/Jabra 85t/MTW2/Buds Pro, and definitely beats out the B&W Pi7 in terms of sound quality, all I can say right now is “Resolutions” 😁.

Okay it’s more than a week since I bought the Aviot TE-D01g and I got to say it’s growing in me, the sound quality and its technicalities is pretty good for a TWS, I’ve been using it with the Final Type E for TWS. The lack of ANC or an ambient mode is not really bothering me (the passive isolation is excellent), the battery is pretty good, I can get roughly 6 hours and 37 minutes with the EQ on.


----------



## Caipirina

zeinharis said:


> The good news is that the WF1000XM4 is definitely worth the upgrade if you coming from XM3/Jabra 85t/MTW2/Buds Pro, and definitely beats out the B&W Pi7 in terms of sound quality, all I can say right now is “Resolutions” 😁.


Hypothetically, if you somehow already had a review pair (wink wink)  How they stack up against the Bose QC buds, especially in the ANC arena?


----------



## zeinharis

Caipirina said:


> Hypothetically, if you somehow already had a review pair (wink wink)  How they stack up against the Bose QC buds, especially in the ANC arena?


Sorry to disappoint you, but I can’t say it right now about everything else aside from what I just said 🤝


----------



## clerkpalmer

zeinharis said:


> I have bad news and good news.
> 
> The bad news is that I won’t able to get my hands on the new Nuarl N10 Plus, because the Nuarl’s authorized dealer here in my country won’t be stocking it for some reasons  😔.
> 
> ...


Definitely beating out the PI7? That’s some high praise.


----------



## zeinharis

clerkpalmer said:


> Definitely beating out the PI7? That’s some high praise.



Yup, sound quality wise (can’t say more about anything else), it would a different story though if B&W can implemented LDAC on the Pi7.


----------



## Thesonofkrypton

The hype is strong with this one lol 

But I have a feeling Sony will deliver.


----------



## jant71

zeinharis said:


> Yup, sound quality wise (can’t say more about anything else), it would a different story though if B&W can implemented LDAC on the Pi7.


That is what I was gonna ask about the conditions. That is LDAC vs. aptX on the PI7? Any way to compare on the same codec even if only SBC?


----------



## zeinharis

Thesonofkrypton said:


> The hype is strong with this one lol
> 
> But I have a feeling Sony will deliver.





jant71 said:


> That is what I was gonna ask about the conditions. That is LDAC vs. aptX on the PI7? Any way to compare on the same codec even if only SBC?



All I can say is that the Pi7 have better amps to drive the buds, but it bottlenecks by the codec, if Pi7 have LDAC then it’s a matter of preference, which sound signature would you prefer.


----------



## clerkpalmer

zeinharis said:


> Yup, sound quality wise (can’t say more about anything else), it would a different story though if B&W can implemented LDAC on the Pi7.


Well they have delivered AptxHD. If you are attributing the increased resolution to LDAC I’m surprised a bit that the differences between AptxHD and LDAC are noticeable. In any event this is welcome news.


----------



## Luke Skywalker

michsu said:


> For those listening on Apple stuff, go to Accessibility and go to the Audio/Visual and change the settings for Headphone Accommodations. I set it to Balanced Tone and put it to Strong. Everything sounds really nice. I only need to turn up the headphones to 1/3 of the volume (with no headphones safety, of course) before it gets really loud. Also, I set Deezer EQ and Apple Music to Acoustic.


That’s really interesting but I can’t detect a difference in sound when using my Bose NC buds…


----------



## clerkpalmer

clerkpalmer said:


> Well they have delivered AptxHD. If you are attributing the increased resolution to LDAC I’m surprised a bit that the differences between AptxHD and LDAC are noticeable. In any event this is welcome news.


AptxHD and LDAC deliver similar performance so that should not be a deciding factor in my view. Must have to do with drivers/tuning/frequency response.


----------



## Luke Skywalker

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Ok here goes...I will don my flame suit and prepare for the ire that this statement is probably going to garner: I'm going to be de-throning the Melomania Touch and replacing it with the ADV M5-TWS (2nd Gen) for my "midrange" recommendation for the SQ-focused consumers out there.
> 
> The Melomania Touch is still timing out after an hour of listening with apps like Neutron and UAPP; this happens regardless of the selected BT stack. I thought this was something they removed after the latest firmware update, but I am still encountering it. Such a shame, too, as they're tuned such that you could listen to them for hours if that weren't the case. The ADV will play right up until the battery dies or you happen to walk far enough away for signal to cut out. As soon as you're back in range, they seem to reconnect, but you will have to manually restart whatever track you're listening to.
> 
> ...


So what’s our favorite TWS right now, Misery?  Cost no object… I’d have to pick my KEFs, followed by Bose, and then NUARL N6P


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

Luke Skywalker said:


> So what’s our favorite TWS right now, Misery?  Cost no object… I’d have to pick my KEFs, followed by Bose, and then NUARL N6P


I mean I could flip the script and judge them absent a price tag. That tends to make people pretty frustrated hahahaha.

As far as what I've been reaching for more lately:

1. ADV M5 (with Azla Crystals)
2. UE FITS (comfort + midrange detail)
3. HiBy WH3 (with Azla Crystals)

All 3 of 'em just work and sound great doing it. Wish I could give the nod to the NFP, but the UX crushes them for me; never thought dealing with aptX Adaptive would have become such a pain. MTs shut off after about an hour.

But it's a totally unfair game once you start bringing in the TWS adapters and using conventional IEMs. Have really been enjoying the CF01 with either the Blessing 2 or Noble X. Both sound absolutely fantastic with those adapters.


----------



## zeinharis

clerkpalmer said:


> AptxHD and LDAC deliver similar performance so that should not be a deciding factor in my view. Must have to do with drivers/tuning/frequency response.



Try the Pi7 with Xiaomi mi 11 and I can’t get the AptxHD, it always reverts to Aptx Adaptive, so I tested the Pi7 with Aptx Adaptive and for me I can clearly hear the difference between it vs LDAC especially on the lower and upper frequencies.


----------



## clerkpalmer

zeinharis said:


> Try the Pi7 with Xiaomi mi 11 and I can’t get the AptxHD, it always reverts to Aptx Adaptive, so I tested the Pi7 with Aptx Adaptive and for me I can clearly hear the difference between it vs LDAC especially on the lower and upper frequencies.


Gotcha. My phone defaults to AptxHD. So I’m looking forward to testing them versus the pI7.


----------



## webvan

Caipirina said:


> your description keeps reminding me of how I feel about the Samsung G Beans ... I love their ANC / ANR because I get a great fit ... also a big ear guy ...
> Glad I stumbled across that UK 60GBP deal .. this local shop is still trying to sell them for 200USD
> 
> Now if I could finally make I my mind what ELSE I should get   Still torn between the MTW2 (best sound? 350$ here) or the Jabra Elite active 75t because now also ANC and better bass than the 85t, 'only' 200$ here, available only in this weird Sienna color ... or maybe the Anker Liberty Air Pro 2 (did I get the name right?) 130$ .. and stem based .. grrr ... i don't NEED another .. but i WANT ...  .. and way too long until I have a chance to get the Sony XM4 .. .or something exotic like the KEF Mu3  here


So did you ever receive the Echo Buds v1 ?

Rtings.com have their review of the Echo Buds v2 up and it's pretty much a bust https://www.rtings.com/headphones/reviews/amazon/echo-buds-gen-2-truly-wireless - sound isolation is nowhere as good as the v1, which is not that surprising since they're the best game in town IMHO. So instead of maybe improving that design subtly (like a smaller USB-C case, more controls) they followed the trend of "smaller is better" (senseless when they were small enough in the first place) and messed it up. That review doesn't even mention the fit that would likely be worse for people with larger ears like me that actually NEED larger buds that don't pop out of our ears at random or need to be rammed in to hold. Besides a larger surface allows for a thinner design too for the same internal volume.


----------



## Slowhand

Hope the XM4's deliver decently on AAC as well.


----------



## BooleanBones

zeinharis said:


> Sorry to disappoint you, but I can’t say it right now about everything else aside from what I just said 🤝


Will the Kraken be released on Tuesday after the announcement? Or will you need to keep it penned up longer?


----------



## Luke Skywalker

That’s really interesting.  So is the PI7 the best in your collection?  do you know how they compare to the Kef’s?  What kind of music do you listen to?


----------



## webvan

Slowhand said:


> Hope the XM4's deliver decently on AAC as well.


What the XM4s REALLY need to do is offer a proper fit, the XM3s have to be the worst ever fitting TWS...unless you were ready to ram them in your ear canals and endure pain after a few minutes except with Complys maybe but then having to change them after a few days/weeks.


----------



## webvan

CocaCola15 said:


> Almost tempted to try out the XM4, almost. Nah. This addiction is just plain nasty.


 Do we know what these odd looking shiny metallic thingies are ?
 If not we should find out next Wednesday https://www.whathifi.com/news/sony-wf-1000xm4-earbuds-reportedly-set-for-youtube-reveal-next-week


----------



## Slowhand

webvan said:


> What the XM4s REALLY need to do is offer a proper fit, the XM3s have to be the worst ever fitting TWS...unless you were ready to ram them in your ear canals and endure pain after a few minutes except with Complys maybe but then having to change them after a few days/weeks.


Never tried the XM3's on account of their design but I can definitely see the fit being less than ideal


----------



## Caipirina

webvan said:


> So did you ever receive the Echo Buds v1 ?


it’s maddening, they are in the country! The guy who brought them from the UK finished his quarantine. When he was done the island went into lockdown! And then it got extended until 14th. And since numbers are not going down, I am expecting another week.
He is only 3km away, but I don’t want to get arrested over getting earbuds


----------



## Ascariss

bladefd said:


> They probably had to sign non-disclosure agreements with Sony to not publicly discuss or release anything until Sony gives the okay



Yup most likely. Sony once offered me embargoed information if I signed NDAs, I said I would do it, but they never contacted me again, guess you gotta be one of the big boy tech sites/youtubers to get such stuff.



go0gle said:


> Still no LE Audio? Are we looking at end of 2021/early 22 for that to start shipping?
> 
> Looking like Im gonna hold on to my LP2s for a a little longer.



I feel this is the case, we first need smartphones and other devices with LE Audio before headsets get it. It's the chicken or the egg scenario. Manufacturers can release LE Audio headsets, but if no devices can send LE Audio, you can't really use the feature on the headphones. 

Likewise, why add LE Audio to a smartphone, if there are no LE audio headsets to take advantage of it. From what I have seen, some bluetooth SoC chipsets support BT 5.2 and parts of LE audio (not all specs are released yet), so I suspect some devices on the market right now will be able to get LE audio upgrade via firmware and subsequent certification.

For example the Bluetooth SoC in the upcoming WF-1000XM4 is certified for BT 5.2 and some of LE audio specs (Isochronous Adaptation Layer for example).  Will be interesting if Sony mentions the new SoC and LE audio in their press release, doubt it, but maybe they will tout future upgradability to LE audio once it is fully released. Would help future proof the headset.



Thesonofkrypton said:


> Read on WalkmanBlog that one listing mentioned 6mm driver size but not 100% confirmed and we won't know for sure until next week at the announcement.



It is from a retail listing, I trust it since most of these retail listings just copy word for word from the press release/info Sony provides. Everything else in the retail listing matches the leaks and information, so looks like 6mm is the driver size, but from the leaked video, materials might be new.



clerkpalmer said:


> This article claims new drivers:
> 
> https://www.phonearena.com/news/Sony-WF-1000XM4-wireless-earbuds-announced-June-8_id132554



The claim of the new drivers is most likely from the video, unless they have other information they are not sharing (ie embargoed material), but pretty sure websites are not allowed to mention such info, unless it has leaked. The video showed the new diaphragms but not driver, "new speakers and diaphragms" translating using google provides, "new speakers and diaphragms".



tinyman392 said:


> It does not look like Sony's previous TWS buds supported AptX.  However, their headphones and neckbands do though...
> 
> Edit: I'm looking through the list and while the XM3 (over ear) is shown the XM4 is absent from the list.
> Edit 2: If you look on the product pages for the WF-1000XM3 (TWS), AptX is absent from the specs.



There was moment when Qualcomm listed the WF-1000XM3 on their aptX website, I have screenshots on the blog, but it was removed. Not idea what the deal was. The WH-1000XM3 uses a qualcomm bluetooth SoC, so this is why aptX is supported. The WF-1000X is also on qualcomm but due to aptX's higher battery drain, sony left it out of the codec support. The battery life on it was pretty abysmal, so adding aptX would have killed it even further. Sony would also need to pay a license fee for aptX if they wanted to use it on their WF models.

The WH-1000XM4 is on mediatek bluetooth SoC, so this the main reason no aptX support. Sure qualcomm could provide the necessary codecs for Sony/mediatek, but it would probably again include license fees and maybe even other costs qualcomm would pull out of their butts.



jsmiller58 said:


> Nobody outside of Sony and its retail partners will know about actual availability (dates and quantities), but that will become apparent in a few days...  As to sound, well, it makes sense if you are concerned to wait for reviews and comparisons to other IEMs.  I certainly am interested in the XM4, but they will be at a price point beyond “discretionary” for me so I will wait to hear what others have to say before taking the plunge...!



I've only seen 2 retail listings so far, none had a release date on them. I am sure more will go up right after they are announced. I suspect we might be looking at a situation where major markets get it first with other regions maybe later. The listings confirm 279 euros for a price, with my gut saying we could be looking at 279 USD, but it wouldn't surprise me if Sony kept the 249 USD price stateside.



Slowhand said:


> Hope the XM4's deliver decently on AAC as well.



Personally hope Sony adds LE audio in the future, early 2022


----------



## Thesonofkrypton

Wf xm3 price just dropped on Amazon uk, £153 now. Cheapest I’ve seen them, they must know (or have in warehouse) new ones are coming out and trying to clear out stock.


----------



## webvan

zeinharis said:


> Looks like Sony is putting out the WF1000XM4 to reviewers. It still under embargo, no details is allowed to share to the public just yet until next week 😜


What makes you think that ?


----------



## jant71

webvan said:


> What makes you think that ?


Someone here already seems to have it and won't talk about it. 


D'oh! Just should have looked closer at the Sabbat E16 Amazon listing and Magnetostat confirmation is right there...





So, the excellent sound with detail and "W" sig that Gamesky describe obviously fits as well. Think that makes them a safer bet to deliver the SQ goods. A very good driver that just has to be implemented well enough.


----------



## Slowhand

Ascariss said:


> Personally hope Sony adds LE audio in the future, early 2022


Yes, that'd be nice. I hope LE audio can make it either from the get-go or retroactively on the iPhone 13.


----------



## webvan

A new Sabbat ? Great, still love my X12 
Hadn't see the hints about the WF-XM4s, it looks like they're dropping next week...


----------



## Luke Skywalker

Dsnuts said:


> Didn't audeze do one? NVM they have a planar wired one but not a TWS. It would make sense to have an internal amplification circuit like what is on the Geekfly GF8S for a planar that would make it sing on the go and be able to use on a phone without amplification. Someone will do it I bet.


Yeah I’m thinking of getting them when the Bluetooth cable is available too. I love my LCD-2s 

https://www.audeze.com/products/euclid


----------



## Luke Skywalker

TK33 said:


> Are you thinking of Soundiiz?


Wow nice! $3/mo sounds totally worth it


----------



## tinyman392

Dsnuts said:


> Didn't audeze do one? NVM they have a planar wired one but not a TWS. It would make sense to have an internal amplification circuit like what is on the Geekfly GF8S for a planar that would make it sing on the go and be able to use on a phone without amplification. Someone will do it I bet.


You can combine them with an adapter to make it TWS. They aren’t the most portable though.


----------



## Peddler

I have to agree about the comments regarding the iBasso CF01 bluetooth adaptors - when used in combination with the iBasso IT00's or my Magiosa K3 Pro's, they sound fantastic - definitely the best bluetooth performance I have experienced yet. No ANC or passthrough, very limited controls and, in my case with the use of Triple Flange Tips, a very deep and potentially uncomfortable fit, they sound utterly superb - besting many wired IEM's I have tried.

I have to say though that I do like the sound character of the Sony WF1000XM3's and I don't have a problem getting a good fit. I love these headphones and, although intrigued by the new Sony's, I won't be in a hurry to buy them.


----------



## howdy

Peddler said:


> I have to agree about the comments regarding the iBasso CF01 bluetooth adaptors - when used in combination with the iBasso IT00's or my Magiosa K3 Pro's, they sound fantastic - definitely the best bluetooth performance I have experienced yet. No ANC or passthrough, very limited controls and, in my case with the use of Triple Flange Tips, a very deep and potentially uncomfortable fit, they sound utterly superb - besting many wired IEM's I have tried.
> 
> I have to say though that I do like the sound character of the Sony WF1000XM3's and I don't have a problem getting a good fit. I love these headphones and, although intrigued by the new Sony's, I won't be in a hurry to buy them.


I have no issues with fit and they are very comfortable with the xlastic eartips, still love the sound. My three favorites I have are the Galaxy pro, Sony XM3 and Jabra 85t. Cant wait for the XM4s!


----------



## Canabuc

Have started out of this thread recently as more discussion than product. 
Truth is my freebuds pro sound great. Nice soundstage very good bass and mids and enough treble to satisfy me. Great single bud use can quality and ANC. Not sure if it's the firmware updates and or equalization but their sound is as good for me as any tws I've had.

That and owning the Aria from moondrop and the fun bass heavy v shaped Kbear ks1 I have all the sound I want.

The only earbuds that might interest me are the sunny if the LDAC codec truly can give a wired sound to tws


----------



## Caipirina

webvan said:


> A new Sabbat ? Great, still love my X12
> Hadn't see the hints about the WF-XM4s, it looks like they're dropping next week...


Maybe there will be X16 in the future with magnetostat magic and possibly cram ANC in there somehow


----------



## Devodonaldson

miserybeforethemusic said:


> I mean I could flip the script and judge them absent a price tag. That tends to make people pretty frustrated hahahaha.
> 
> As far as what I've been reaching for more lately:
> 
> ...


I'm using NFP and enjoying,  but wondering about xm4 and hiby wh2 and how they will compare on LDAC. I've had no issues with the NFP. I use them at work for music with my zx507. Use buds pro for video with my Samsung phone.


----------



## coscurtdad

Typo2 said:


> Incase anyone missed it there's new firmware with EQ options for the Enco X. If you hated the Enco X's default v shape with recessed mids like I did, the new EQ options improve it massively, both tunings are way more neutral. Now using these over my kef mu3's and track air + due to the form factor and just overall features/convenience/size. Hopefully can also try LHDC on my next phone and see if they improve anymore. Reasonably happy with these now. Got half an eye on the b&w pi7 - doubt ill get £250-300 worth of improvement for the premium but I like being surprised and I gotta try them all. 😅
> 
> Latest Hey Melody app isnt on google play yet, which is where the Eq options are.


How did you get the latest apk of heymelody app if its not on google play, can you advise


----------



## chinmie

I've just received my Apollo Air unit from Tronsmart, and have been testing it for this past couple of days. overall, i really like it, sound-wise similar to my wife's Airpods Pro but with added bass and warmth in the bass and mid section. The Airpods Pro is still better in the ANC/Ambient mode though (not too surprising), but other aspects like button configs, sound signature, it's a competitive product. I also prefer this one in sound signature compared to the older Apollo Bold.

I have written a more in-depth review in the Head Gear page:
https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/tr...o-plus-hybrid-anc-earbuds.25174/review/26017/


----------



## webvan

" - Different sound profile (boosted bass) in ANC and Ambient mode "
Same problem as on the Bold then, how on earth has this not been fixed ?! As for the rest, well, average at best, a hard pass.

"Maybe there will be X16 in the future with magnetostat magic and possibly cram ANC in there somehow"
Sounds interesting but TBH there isn't a lot to improve for the X12, I'll look into the E16 though !


----------



## chinmie

webvan said:


> " - Different sound profile (boosted bass) in ANC and Ambient mode "
> Same problem as on the Bold then, how on earth has this not been fixed ?! As for the rest, well, average at best, a hard pass.
> 
> "Maybe there will be X16 in the future with magnetostat magic and possibly cram ANC in there somehow"
> Sounds interesting but TBH there isn't a lot to improve for the X12, I'll look into the E16 though !


either they consider that as a feature (two in one sound signature at a press of a button ) or they can't really fix it. i personally prefer consistency between the sound modes... even my other cheaper ANC TWSs like the Mobvoi, Airsun, and Dyplay don't have that problem, only the Bold and Air.. ooh.. i almost forgot: the Galaxy buds live also have this problem, but the ANC on that one doesn't really do anything, so i guess for the Gbuds Live it's an extra EQ bass boost after all 

yup, based on your current collection, i don't think you need to purchase it.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

Devodonaldson said:


> I'm using NFP and enjoying,  but wondering about xm4 and hiby wh2 and how they will compare on LDAC. I've had no issues with the NFP. I use them at work for music with my zx507. Use buds pro for video with my Samsung phone.


Some of it may have to do with my phone just being a pain, but it seems I have to go through the pairing process every other time I remove the buds from the case. From there, it's a 50/50 shot as to whether the phone will connect to them, then whether the app will afterwards.


----------



## jant71 (Jun 6, 2021)

Since the black(would have preferred the blue) had the 1-day shipping I took a flyer on the Sabbat flagship...
The quick pics and I'll get the first quick impression/experience in before anyone else here 


The presentation is indeed nice and they include a decent amount of tips though small bore is probably not the best I'm thinking so pretty sure some other type from the ole' kit will be the better choice. Case is solid and handsome and Qi compatible though you have to leave it open to see the LED. Should fit most normal length tips and all the shorter wireless ones. Even Sedna Earfits M work in the case. ML have to wedge in a bit but still work to start charging but the case doesn't close that last tiny bit. Most tips should be okay till really long or wide and firm.

They pair and connect as fast as you'd want. Connection seems rock solid. The ergo shape is easy to fit gives a good amount of isolation(will vary with tip) and is good to press the button and not bother the seal. Buttons are nice so you'll never have any accidental presses and you can grab them any way you want.

The sound is very nice for $99. So, far I would like to wait on the dynamic part to burn in some in case of any change. Good reach and some feel but a little bloom on it and the detail and texture is a bit smoothed over so hoping the burn in and tip choice will round them into the best shape. The 7mm magneto part, which is very planar but more electret-like on how it uses charge and can't produce much bass hence the magnetostat always being a combo with it's dynamic helper, does it's job well and has extension, clarity, and liveliness. The good extension and detail are good for TWS to offset what is lost over BT. No bad cable choices here or alloy housing so no Tape style problems with being detail freaks at the cost of the F.R. and needing some kind of fix. Not polite but not strident or sibilant. Energetic but not too aggressive on the highs. They will bring the treble to the party in a evident way. My previous Victor was darker and compared to the MTW2 in signature and my Audio-Technica is in the same way so these will be more hybrid sounding in adding the treble driver. More Falcon Pro than Falcon if you will. Still want the bass to tighten up a bit with the best seal to show more of what is underneath as far as texture and layering a bit. It will happen with run in and/or tips or will need to be done via EQ.

I think with JVC Spiral Dot  SF they come together for my ears. Coherent, a big sound with a clean W signature. Male vocals pop, bass has some punch low and a nice lighter snap a bit higher, and the treble is up with good extension and shimmer and the roll on either end is minimal and pretty satisfying for a TWS. They can certainly sound excellent and dialed in right few will complain for $99 for the sound they are capable of. They have clarity, detail, extension, some room in the presentation, and take to EQ well to tweak.

The pros so far:
- Good build and shape and looks
- Good connection and stability
- Good fit
- Good volume with more headroom than many other TWS
- No accidental pressing and still button mashing is not an issue
- Good value

The cons so far:
- Buttons could be a bit bigger esp. for bigger fingers
- The W sig is not the most coherent out of the box (more tip related?)
- Narrow bore tips cut the stage height some
- TWS style short tips have no issues for sound but they only give one size
- No ambient or talk-through mode
- L/R indicators are stamped in so won't rub off but are not easy to see with no color difference(not symmetrical in shape so not a big deal)

Sabbat did a nice job with these!


----------



## Peddler

webvan said:


> " - Different sound profile (boosted bass) in ANC and Ambient mode "
> Same problem as on the Bold then, how on earth has this not been fixed ?! As for the rest, well, average at best, a hard pass.
> 
> "Maybe there will be X16 in the future with magnetostat magic and possibly cram ANC in there somehow"
> Sounds interesting but TBH there isn't a lot to improve for the X12, I'll look into the E16 though !


I must admit I was somewhat overwhelmed with the bass output of the Apollo Bold and Air models but when listening at low volumes they sound great.  A compromise I know but one of the main advantages in active noise cancellation is that you can listen at much lower volumes than normal. I find myself using the Apollo Bold's a lot at night thanks to their comfort, boosted bass and customisable touch controls (no accidental touches when lying on your side).


----------



## chinmie

jant71 said:


> Since the black(would have preferred the blue) had the 1-day shipping I took a flyer on the Sabbat flagship...
> The quick pics and I'll get the first quick impression/experience in before anyone else here
> 
> The presentation is indeed nice and they include a decent amount of tips though small bore is probably not the best I'm thinking so pretty sure some other type from the ole' kit will be the better choice. Case is solid and handsome and Qi compatible though you have to leave it open to see the LED. Should fit most normal length tips and all the shorter wireless ones. Even Sedna Earfits M work in the case. ML have to wedge in a bit but still work to start charging but the case doesn't close that last tiny bit. Most tips should be okay till really long or wide and firm.
> ...



how's the sound in your opinion comoared to the Tape or Tape Pro? also which one has better resolution? 

I'm using my Tape Pro with the BT20S Pro, and as polarizing as it is, i like the Tape Pro because it's unique sound presentation



Peddler said:


> I must admit I was somewhat overwhelmed with the bass output of the Apollo Bold and Air models but when listening at low volumes they sound great.  A compromise I know but one of the main advantages in active noise cancellation is that you can listen at much lower volumes than normal. I find myself using the Apollo Bold's a lot at night thanks to their comfort, boosted bass and customisable touch controls (no accidental touches when lying on your side).



what preset are you currently use on the Air and Bold? i found that the bass has lessen in volume and becomes a little tighter after my battery stress test, which is playing some full frequency range music non stop with slightly above my listening volume level (well, basically an incidental burn in). also the "Rock" preset brings the mids forward the most, making it the most balanced setting for the Air. 

on the Bold that would be the "Pop" setting, but sadly it also cut the treble and making it less sparkling, so i settled with the slightly V-shaped "Jazz" instead


----------



## jant71

chinmie said:


> how's the sound in your opinion comoared to the Tape or Tape Pro? also which one has better resolution?
> 
> I'm using my Tape Pro with the BT20S Pro, and as polarizing as it is, i like the Tape Pro because it's unique sound presentation



Easy to hear we have the same driver or version of it. Haven't heard the Pro so I don't know what the real difference in sound is. Not exactly of course but to give the idea, you can take the Tape take away a bit of the resolution and high extension because of BT loss and add more low end and low end punch. Tape would win by a small percentage technically but as far as tuning and signature the Sabbat all day long. Still should be up there for detail and resolution in the TWS segment. Still pretty unique with the planar like mids and highs and sub like bass and well balanced spacey W sig. I like how they have the punch and feel down low the Tape won't have unless you amped them. Think they did a good job w/o seemingly any special amp chips or anything. They have satisfying bass, the feel, and can sound quite big and have richness and probably the lowest volume I have needed on a TWS. I can max out with some TWS and find I need 1/2 the volume or more. using 40 on the volume instead of 90 or 100. 60 instead of 130+ depending on device. The 6-8 hours of battery time wasn't seemingly impressive but the magnetostat is quite well powered esp. the dynamic driver which seemingly in the Tape and in the Zero would like some power to have  a tighter punchier sound. They also gives the specs of 93 on the sensitivity and the tweeter running at 4Ohm while the dynamic 16. From having the Tape and the specs it doesn't seem so easy to drive esp. with plenty of headroom left so the 6-8 hours is a pretty good job glad it is like this instead of 10 hours and not powered as well.


----------



## chinmie

jant71 said:


> Easy to hear we have the same driver or version of it. Haven't heard the Pro so I don't know what the real difference in sound is. Not exactly of course but to give the idea, you can take the Tape take away a bit of the resolution and high extension because of BT loss and add more low end and low end punch. Tape would win by a small percentage technically but as far as tuning and signature the Sabbat all day long. Still should be up there for detail and resolution in the TWS segment. Still pretty unique with the planar like mids and highs and sub like bass and well balanced spacey W sig. I like how they have the punch and feel down low the Tape won't have unless you amped them. Think they did a good job w/o seemingly any special amp chips or anything. They have satisfying bass, the feel, and can sound quite big and have richness and probably the lowest volume I have needed on a TWS. I can max out with some TWS and find I need 1/2 the volume or more. using 40 on the volume instead of 90 or 100. 60 instead of 130+ depending on device. The 6-8 hours of battery time wasn't seemingly impressive but the magnetostat is quite well powered esp. the dynamic driver which seemingly in the Tape and in the Zero would like some power to have  a tighter punchier sound. They also gives the specs of 93 on the sensitivity and the tweeter running at 4Ohm while the dynamic 16. From having the Tape and the specs it doesn't seem so easy to drive esp. with plenty of headroom left so the 6-8 hours is a pretty good job glad it is like this instead of 10 hours and not powered as well.



nice. yes indeed the Tape/Tape Pro achilles' hell is their tuning despite having a good resolution. 

above 6 hours of playtime is good enough for me, i might try this E16 someday. 

ooh, i almost forgot, do you happen to have the E12 too by any chance? how do they compare to each other?


----------



## jsmiller58

Canabuc said:


> Have started out of this thread recently as more discussion than product.
> Truth is my freebuds pro sound great. Nice soundstage very good bass and mids and enough treble to satisfy me. Great single bud use can quality and ANC. Not sure if it's the firmware updates and or equalization but their sound is as good for me as any tws I've had.
> 
> That and owning the Aria from moondrop and the fun bass heavy v shaped Kbear ks1 I have all the sound I want.
> ...


Well, the real sonic differences between wired vs aptX or LDAC is up for debate.  The bigger issue - I think - are the power that the TWS on-board dac/amp can push, the driver configuration, and the tuning.  Based on my limited experience, I think that the TWS space has a bit to go to match wired.  Having said that, I am building up a small collection of TWS because where they beat wired is in convenience, and I am finding that to be a big deal.


----------



## jant71

chinmie said:


> nice. yes indeed the Tape/Tape Pro achilles' hell is their tuning despite having a good resolution.
> 
> above 6 hours of playtime is good enough for me, i might try this E16 someday.
> 
> ooh, i almost forgot, do you happen to have the E12 too by any chance? how do they compare to each other?


Almost bought a Vooplay but hadn't tried a Sabbat till the E16.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

Tuning is the most important thing full stop. A great tuning with flaws on the technicalities will always be more enjoyable to listen to than a "resolving" headphone with a garbage curve.


----------



## samandhi (Jun 7, 2021)

SomeGuyDude said:


> Tuning is the most important thing full stop. A great tuning with flaws on the technicalities will always be more enjoyable to listen to than a "resolving" headphone with a garbage curve.


Agreed! Also (IMO) amping is very important for TWS. Because of the fact that the codecs aren't quite there yet, a well tuned amp section in combination with DSP can help make up for areas that otherwise would make them sound bad, or at least low-fi(ish) regardless of the driver tuning.


----------



## erockg

New Jaybird Vista 2's announce tomorrow.  Someone left up their staging page.  Oops.

https://www.jaybirdsport.com/en-us/staging/vista2-pdp.985-000928.html


----------



## Gromu

erockg said:


> New Jaybird Vista 2's announce tomorrow.  Someone left up their staging page.  Oops.
> 
> https://www.jaybirdsport.com/en-us/staging/vista2-pdp.985-000928.html


Was there any information on it before or did it always lead to an error page?


----------



## erockg

Gromu said:


> Was there any information on it before or did it always lead to an error page?


Wow, that was fast on their part.  I managed to get screenshots and just uploaded them.


----------



## Gromu

erockg said:


> Wow, that was fast on their part.  I managed to get screenshots and just uploaded them.


Ah. Perfect. I was going to ask if you had screenshots. Thanks!


----------



## samandhi

Gromu said:


> Was there any information on it before or did it always lead to an error page?


Yes. If you do a google search for Jaybird Vista 2, and then on the hyperlink (on the right) click the down arrorw, and choose cached, it shows the page.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

erockg said:


> New Jaybird Vista 2's announce tomorrow.  Someone left up their staging page.  Oops.
> 
> https://www.jaybirdsport.com/en-us/staging/vista2-pdp.985-000928.html


Gah still AAC/SBC only! You'd think by now Jaybird could have aptX licensure added on without any impact to their bottom line. I do like their approach to ambient sound sensing/noise cancellation, though. I'm 50/50 on this one.


----------



## helmutcheese

And better battery5-6 hours today is poor esp as that is not at normal listening volume but 50% for most claims.


----------



## samandhi

helmutcheese said:


> And better battery5-6 hours today is poor esp as that is not at normal listening volume but 50% for most claims.


Comparatively speaking, I would agree. But, keep in mind that the technology used does not stay the same, so battery technology sometimes can't keep up. When new electronics are introduced, it puts what otherwise might be 10 hours back down to a paltry 4 hours again. For instance, the new Sony XM4s coming out have LDAC (the first in this field). I would bet that those TWS would have had 8 or more hours otherwise, but with LDAC on there is no way to get that much with the current technology. 

I guess for me, I am happy when I can get more than 4 hours, depending on the technology used. If they are SBC only, then if it is that low, I am suspect that the maker took shortcuts to make more profit (using older technology). I guess I usually decide on the fly whether it is acceptable or not to me.


----------



## erockg

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Gah still AAC/SBC only! You'd think by now Jaybird could have aptX licensure added on without any impact to their bottom line. I do like their approach to ambient sound sensing/noise cancellation, though. I'm 50/50 on this one.


Thought that too, but I'm not sure that's the market for them.  They want runners and bikers.  Guess we'll see.  Man, I had the first gen Jaybirds years ago when BT headphones weren't a thing yet.  Pretty cool to see them evolve.  I'll prob pass on these.  Until the wild hair tickles.


----------



## helmutcheese

samandhi said:


> Comparatively speaking, I would agree. But, keep in mind that the technology used does not stay the same, so battery technology sometimes can't keep up. When new electronics are introduced, it puts what otherwise might be 10 hours back down to a paltry 4 hours again. For instance, the new Sony XM4s coming out have LDAC (the first in this field). I would bet that those TWS would have had 8 or more hours otherwise, but with LDAC on there is no way to get that much with the current technology.
> 
> I guess for me, I am happy when I can get more than 4 hours, depending on the technology used. If they are SBC only, then if it is that low, I am suspect that the maker took shortcuts to make more profit (using older technology). I guess I usually decide on the fly whether it is acceptable or not to me.


Creative had 12-14 years ago and the 3040 Chipset  buds today are 10-15hours (SoundPeats etc) depending on how loud and how many drivers they have.

I was not counting LDAC as not many use it but  they normally quote ACC as it is only 250K but would be worse if 320K and SBC if no ACC support.

Today I will not buy less than 8 hours non ANC as no doubt it does not even get 8 hours (50-60% claims) at normal volume levels and that is new but after prolonged use and charge cycles that will drop.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

erockg said:


> Thought that too, but I'm not sure that's the market for them.  They want runners and bikers.  Guess we'll see.  Man, I had the first gen Jaybirds years ago when BT headphones weren't a thing yet.  Pretty cool to see them evolve.  I'll prob pass on these.  Until the wild hair tickles.


I could genuinely use a pair of TWS that would survive being outdoors. I still have my X2; those were pretty good once you got over how the behind-the-head strap worked. Absolutely perfect for the gym when you don't want an exaggerated low end. I'll keep an eye on 'em.


----------



## Lewislink2

I bought a set of Sennheiser CX400BT and returned them within a day. Without equalization, the sound was terrible. It was muddy, murky, uncrisp, unclear and not even approaching any kind of transparency. They made me ashamed of Sennheiser.

Tonight I read a review of the Lypertek SoundFree S20 on Trusted Reviews and was going to purchase a set because of the stellar review saying they have "impressive sound" and rating them 4.5 stars. But as I scrolled the list of headphone reviews I came across the Sennheiser CX400BT review. They said they have "excellent sound quality" and I immediately backed away from buying the Lypertek because if Trusted Reviews think the Sennheiser CX400BT have "excellent" sound, it means the Lypertek sound even worse than the Sennheiser.


----------



## rsbanner

Lewislink2 said:


> I bought a set of Sennheiser CX400BT and returned them within a day. Without equalization, the sound was terrible. It was muddy, murky, uncrisp, unclear and not even approaching any kind of transparency. They made me ashamed of Sennheiser.
> 
> Tonight I read a review of the Lypertek SoundFree S20 on Trusted Reviews and was going to purchase a set because of the stellar review saying they have "impressive sound" and rating them 4.5 stars. But as I scrolled the list of headphone reviews I came across the Sennheiser CX400BT review. They said they have "excellent sound quality" and I immediately backed away from buying the Lypertek because if Trusted Reviews think the Sennheiser CX400BT have "excellent" sound, it means the Lypertek sound even worse than the Sennheiser.


Wow, just ahiws you that you need to be careful... I struggle to find reliable reviews!


----------



## rsbanner

jant71 said:


> Since the black(would have preferred the blue) had the 1-day shipping I took a flyer on the Sabbat flagship...
> The quick pics and I'll get the first quick impression/experience in before anyone else here
> 
> The presentation is indeed nice and they include a decent amount of tips though small bore is probably not the best I'm thinking so pretty sure some other type from the ole' kit will be the better choice. Case is solid and handsome and Qi compatible though you have to leave it open to see the LED. Should fit most normal length tips and all the shorter wireless ones. Even Sedna Earfits M work in the case. ML have to wedge in a bit but still work to start charging but the case doesn't close that last tiny bit. Most tips should be okay till really long or wide and firm.
> ...


Wow, this is such a good review! Thank you!


----------



## SilverEars (Jun 7, 2021)

Lewislink2 said:


> I bought a set of Sennheiser CX400BT and returned them within a day. Without equalization, the sound was terrible. It was muddy, murky, uncrisp, unclear and not even approaching any kind of transparency. They made me ashamed of Sennheiser.
> 
> Tonight I read a review of the Lypertek SoundFree S20 on Trusted Reviews and was going to purchase a set because of the stellar review saying they have "impressive sound" and rating them 4.5 stars. But as I scrolled the list of headphone reviews I came across the Sennheiser CX400BT review. They said they have "excellent sound quality" and I immediately backed away from buying the Lypertek because if Trusted Reviews think the Sennheiser CX400BT have "excellent" sound, it means the Lypertek sound even worse than the Sennheiser.


I hated the MTW3.  v-shaped, hated the boosted treble.  At that level of treble, unlistenable and likely cause hearing damage.  similarly, the full-sized momentum has v-shape as well, but I can tolerate the treble, but I still hate the treble quality.  Bass is too boosted and hammering.


----------



## bladefd

Lewislink2 said:


> I bought a set of Sennheiser CX400BT and returned them within a day. Without equalization, the sound was terrible. It was muddy, murky, uncrisp, unclear and not even approaching any kind of transparency. They made me ashamed of Sennheiser.
> 
> Tonight I read a review of the Lypertek SoundFree S20 on Trusted Reviews and was going to purchase a set because of the stellar review saying they have "impressive sound" and rating them 4.5 stars. But as I scrolled the list of headphone reviews I came across the Sennheiser CX400BT review. They said they have "excellent sound quality" and I immediately backed away from buying the Lypertek because if Trusted Reviews think the Sennheiser CX400BT have "excellent" sound, it means the Lypertek sound even worse than the Sennheiser.


I felt the exact opposite of the cx400bt sound. I tried them for a month and felt they had great sound. You sure you had good isolation and tried a variety of music? They were very uncomfortable though so I returned them


----------



## Caipirina

Seeing how it is only 10h 16min until 1:00 JST  
What do we think (or people in the know, well, know) when the review videos are allowed to hit the net? 
Talking about the XM4 in case that wasn't clear 

I really need to know if the ANC is better than the Bose's


----------



## Gromu

This reviewer seems to be posting at 15 minutes later so I guess immediately after?


----------



## webvan

" I really need to know if the ANC is better than the Bose's  "
There are a few aspects to this, rarely discussed here unfortunately, I've tried a few times though  To me (and likely others) what matters is overall isolation * and ANC only plays a part in that. I've found that to achieve the best possible overall isolation you need the best passive isolation to start with and only then will ANC take it to the next step. That's mainly because passive will deal with medium and higher pitched sounds and ANC with lower pitched sounds. That means that you can achieve the best possible isolation even with a "non-wow" ANC like on the Amazon Echo Buds, THE best TWS for overall isolation in my 3+ year TWS experience (not to mention all the time spent with wired IEMs). The MTW2s are pretty close as well as the XM3s (when you ram them in your ear canals so they hold).
On the other hand you have TWSs with a " Wow ANC" like the APPs or the Bose but since they lack proper passive isolation the overall isolation is markedly lower, most people seem to prefer to be "wowed" though and I wouldn't be surprised if the XM4s followed that "less pressure" trend too, like the Amazon EchoBuds2 recently for poor overall isolation as measured by rtings.com.

* I suppose the exception to this would be to use TWS in a cubicle environment where you'd use ANC to reduce the background noise and still hear people coming around to talk to you.


----------



## Caipirina (Jun 8, 2021)

webvan said:


> " I really need to know if the ANC is better than the Bose's  "
> There are a few aspects to this, rarely discussed here unfortunately, I've tried a few times though  To me (and likely others) what matters is overall isolation * and ANC only plays a part in that. I've found that to achieve the best possible overall isolation you need the best passive isolation to start with and only then will ANC take it to the next step. That's mainly because passive will deal with medium and higher pitched sounds and ANC with lower pitched sounds. That means that you can achieve the best possible isolation even with a "non-wow" ANC like on the Amazon Echo Buds, THE best TWS for overall isolation in my 3+ year TWS experience (not to mention all the time spent with wired IEMs). The MTW2s are pretty close as well as the XM3s (when you ram them in your ear canals so they hold).
> On the other hand you have TWSs with a " Wow ANC" like the APPs or the Bose but since they lack proper passive isolation the overall isolation is markedly lower, most people seem to prefer to be "wowed" though and I wouldn't be surprised if the XM4s followed that "less pressure" trend too, like the Amazon EchoBuds2 recently for poor overall isolation as measured by rtings.com.
> 
> * I suppose the exception to this would be to use TWS in a cubicle environment where you'd use ANC to reduce the background noise and still hear people coming around to talk to you.


I remember you making this well detailed argument before and I very much agree. For me it's the Buds live, that everyone seems to hate, but I tend to get a great passive seal and really enjoy the noise reduction.
It's also important to keep in mind that ANC does affect different ranges. Most do well with low rumbles like airplanes, trains, busses ...  but getting rid of the casual sounds is the elusive holy grail ... I kid you not on my last flight with APP in, everything was so toned down that I was able to follow a conversation that happened on the other side of the plane ...
I also think that this advertizing of how many dB reduction the buds can do is really just marketing (and from what I understand, Bose refrains from that practice)

That being said ... I have been very positively impressed by the semi open experiences I had with ANC (Bose QC20 wired, Bose QC Earbuds, APP and even the Jabra 85t) ... so .. I am just really curious if / what the XM4 might bring new to the table  ... jamming in the buds for max passive isolation brings then back the runner's thud ...

Which reminds, me, I think it was you saying the Bose QC earbuds are to heavy for running, or 'who would want to run with those' .. something like that ... anyways .. I actually started using them for running and they pretty much fulfill my 'dream' I voiced here many years ago: Bose SSF with ANC ...  there;s still a light thud, nothing beats the X12 in that regard ...

Anyways .. while I am still waiting to get the Amazon Echos from across town ... I might actually have a chance of getting the XM4 by early August .. yeah me ... if not, then September ...


----------



## webvan

"I kid you not on my last flight with APP in, everything was so toned down that I was able to follow a conversation that happened on the other side of the plane ..."
Yeah, so that would be great for "cubicle use", but to be isolated and immersed in your music? Not so much IMHO 

Thanks for reminding me of the wired QC20, very impressive ANC too, zero passive isolation so same "issue" at the end of the day. Why settle for less isolation if you don't have to thanks to TWS like the Echo Buds 1 or the MTW2s ? The Panasonic (and Technics) are pretty good too but the form factor (smaller but deeper, like the Echo Buds 2) didn't work for my larger ears.

I guess these companies are looking for new selling angles and marketing studies must have shown that people will reach to their wallet when they're told that earbuds have "less pressure" and Apple was pointing out left and right (with "influencers" only too happy to peddle the story) that they had "vents" to avoid "pressure". I suppose some people really feel claustrophobic with tightly sealing earbuds, but come on, we're not talking Etymotic or Klipsch S4 deep insertion anymore...The "vents" will only go so far anyway, the "thud" is still going to be present when you run with them, I tried and didn't like it a bit. Now I run in quiet environments where I have zero use for ANC (besides ANC mics pick up wind noise "by design") so earbuds with zero thud are my priority


----------



## Caipirina

webvan said:


> Thanks for reminding me of the wired QC20, very impressive ANC too, zero passive isolation so same "issue" at the end of the day. Why settle for less isolation if you don't have to thanks to TWS like the Echo Buds 1 or the MTW2s ? The Panasonic (and Technics) are pretty good too but the form factor (smaller but deeper, like the Echo Buds 2) didn't work for my larger ears.


Now you remind me again of the MTW2s ... think I'd like them? Not for running i mean   it feels like something I 'should' have and it is available locally, but silly price at 350$  ...  I watched so many videos / read reviews and I am still kinda 'meh' ...


----------



## DigDub (Jun 8, 2021)

Time to dust off those mmcx buds. 

Compared to the first version, the utws3 is more comfortable as the loop is more pliable. The charging case is certainly a welcome feature compared to the messy wired charging of the first version.


----------



## BLUDGEON

Caipirina said:


> Now you remind me again of the MTW2s ... think I'd like them? Not for running i mean   it feels like something I 'should' have and it is available locally, but silly price at 350$  ...  I watched so many videos / read reviews and I am still kinda 'meh' ...


What stopped me from buying them was only being able use the right earbud on its own.  My $30 Xiaomi buds can do either/both, pretty ridiculous that something ten times the price has that kind of limitation.


----------



## Luke Skywalker

I wouldn’t pay $5 for a pair of Sony XM4s. I have the XM3 and hate them


----------



## Luke Skywalker

DigDub said:


> Time to dust off those mmcx buds.
> 
> Compared to the first version, the utws3 is more comfortable as the loop is more pliable. The charging case is certainly a welcome feature compared to the messy wired charging of the first version.


Wow nice!  What kind of IEMs are those?  How does the Fiio compare to the iBasso?


----------



## clerkpalmer

I’ve spent a small fortune trying to find the “perfect” biking tws. So far I keep coming up empty. Either fit issues, wind noise or both. I realize that over 20mph or so wind is going to be an issue nevertheless I’m still on the hunt.

so the new Jaybird claims they have “wind defense”. Does anyone think this is a real thing? They are pricey for bike only buds but I am intrigued.


----------



## webvan

Sounds like baloney to me, the only "wind defense" is passive isolation and the lowest possible profile, anything "active" is prone to failure. We've talked about that subject before, if you *can" be isolated, i.e. riding where there is zero danger then you want TWSs like the Bomaker SiFi II.or the EchoBuds with ANR turned off. If you need to remain aware of your surroundings, and that's really going to be the main use cas on a bike, then you'd want something like the Aftershokz. My goto sports earbuds the X12 do provide awareness but I find the wind noise distracting.


----------



## DigDub

Luke Skywalker said:


> Wow nice!  What kind of IEMs are those?  How does the Fiio compare to the iBasso?


Those are tin hifi t2. I haven't tried the iBasso before.


----------



## webvan (Jun 8, 2021)

8 minutes to go

Specs discussed :


----------



## Caipirina

webvan said:


> 8 minutes to go
> 
> Specs discussed :



watching the Sony announcement


----------



## n00b

starting to see some 1000xm4 reviews 👀 https://www.theverge.com/22523584/sony-wf-1000xm4-wireless-earbuds-headphones-review


----------



## Thesonofkrypton

Listed for release on Amazon 11th June


----------



## erockg

Thesonofkrypton said:


> Listed for release on Amazon 11th June


Strange, I just bought them on Amazon and they say they'll deliver tomorrow.


----------



## BobJS

erockg said:


> Strange, I just bought them on Amazon and they say they'll deliver tomorrow.



Did you buy the headphones rather than the earbuds?


----------



## erockg

BobJS said:


> Did you buy the headphones rather than the earbuds?


https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B094C4VDJZ/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1


----------



## webvan

So foam tips only, hum...hope they're stronger than your average Comply tips ! Also I hope it's not a "fix" for poor fit like the XM3s that required Complys to stay put. Of course that's not the type of IRL experience you'd expect a journo from The Verge to even think of looking into.


----------



## Caipirina

BobJS said:


> Did you buy the headphones rather than the earbuds?


----------



## Caipirina

erockg said:


> https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B094C4VDJZ/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1


wow, already out of stock ...


----------



## n00b

really curious to try sony TWS since i use sony DAPs. $279 is kinda pushing it though. im hoping theres some incredible synergy in the sony ecosystem there. now.. for a silver ZX500.. silver or black buds?


----------



## helmutcheese

I doubt those tips will fit me I need XL (14mm or so), reviews stated it should have XL and no multipoint.

I wonder how many devices they can remember or are they going to pair/forget each time?


----------



## Thesonofkrypton

Just rang my local curry’s store, they have it in store. Going to pick one up now.


----------



## Dregur

I just ordered mine (1000xm4), and I'll get them today, apparently.


----------



## Dregur

webvan said:


> So foam tips only, hum...hope they're stronger than your average Comply tips ! Also I hope it's not a "fix" for poor fit like the XM3s that required Complys to stay put. Of course that's not the type of IRL experience you'd expect a journo from The Verge to even think of looking into.


I know the tips on the XM3 were pretty high quality, and lasted longer than comply tips as the foam was much more dense with a coating.


----------



## howdy

Looks like Best Buy will have them in by this weekend. May have to stop on by and pick up a pair. Love the Sony XM3 and these should be better, so win win.


----------



## helmutcheese (Jun 8, 2021)

Amazon UK just listed price of £250 (it was out of stock before), says 11th June.

Amazon US is $275 but price disappears as you load them.

Will see more reviews, real feedback and you never know Prime Day is soon and may not all be crap in deals like recent years.


----------



## Thesonofkrypton

The Verge hands on of the xm4:

https://www.theverge.com/platform/amp/22523584/sony-wf-1000xm4-wireless-earbuds-headphones-review


----------



## Dregur

Based on reviews, the battery life is impressive. 8 hours WITH ANC, and 12 without.


----------



## Slowhand

Would love if anyone can compare the XM4's to the MW08's, especially when used with an iPhone.


----------



## SilverEars

Dregur said:


> Based on reviews, the battery life is impressive. 8 hours WITH ANC, and 12 without.


Very nice.  We headed to the right direction if it's truly better ANC than APP.


----------



## webvan

Dregur said:


> I know the tips on the XM3 were pretty high quality, and lasted longer than comply tips as the foam was much more dense with a coating.


They were not grippy at all so I would have never found out if they were actually durable or not  In any case the new ones are very different and look similar to Complys.


----------



## helmutcheese

Their ANC was better than Apples anyhow it was Bose who overtook them last time.


----------



## SilverEars

helmutcheese said:


> Their ANC was better than Apples anyhow it was Bose who overtook them last time.


 I will not conclude that until I'm up in the air with 80dB of airplane cabin nose around me to compare.


----------



## gwompki

I just purchased the XM3 on Sunday and have purchased the XM4 today.  I still see stock available on Amazon here in the US.  I should have the XM4 by Thursday.  

It's funny I started seriously looking at True wireless when my gym headphones broke (5+ year old pair of Jaybird Freedom Sprint that served me very well).  The Jaybird's were certainly not the last word in sound quality...far from it.  But they were extremely reliable and durable.

My main wired rig for the past two years is a set of FIIO FH5 with either an LG V30 or G7.  I know some people will laugh at this, but that rig was, for lack of a better term, my end-game in terms of headphones.  I do most of my listening in my living room on my 2 channel setup these days.  

I do have a pair of Jabra 65t that I use for Teams calls, podcasts, audiobooks, I don't use it much for music (although it certainly isn't bad for music).  

When I started my quest for new gym headphones I do what I unfortunately always do.  Start looking at cheap budget stuff and then make the mistake of reading HeadFi or Reddit and before I know it I'm considering the top tier models.

I have had the XM3 for a few days now and while I really like it in terms of comfort, noise cancellation, features, I'm not crazy about the sound for the music I listen to mostly (rock, metal, indie, etc).  The mid bass seems a little wooly or overblown to my ears.  It's not incredibly textured or deep.  Can't hear true bass notes from bass guitar etc.  They do sound pretty amazing with some hip hop and electronic music.  The bass is good, but not totally impactful.  I must say I really did enjoy the XM3 while sitting at the pool trying to knock out some work on my laptop and being able to shut out all the background noise.  Also when taking them on a walk the ambient sound feature was also really nice so I could hear passing cars.  

I'm hopeful the XM4 will address my sound quality issues.  If it does I will likely keep it and send the XM3 back.  If not, I might just keep the XM3.


----------



## thimantha (Jun 8, 2021)

Caipirina said:


> Where do you get TWS these days in Sri Lanka? AliExpress stopped working for me, crazy shipping fees and takes forever, Daraz is full of fakes, and places like Tecroot, Lifemobile, Celltronics, Urban mainly sell brand name stuff above 100$
> That being said, Tecroot has the Nuarl N6 mini, which I had my eyes on, but there is very little info to be found, other than Nuarl has a pretty decent reputation here ... they are 22.500Rs



Hey man, are you back in Sri Lanka? Thought you were out of the country.

AliExpress isn't completely not working. It's just that the 'AliExpress Standard Shipping' option, which the majority of the sellers use, doesn't ship to Sri Lanka anymore. The listings from sellers who offer other shipping options work just fine. Also, most sellers custom ship using either 'AliExpress Premium Shipping' or 'Cainiao Global Shipping' if you explain the situation to them and ask them nicely, even if they only ship using 'Standard' shipping otherwise. The waiting time is horribly long though. Some of my orders from January just came in.

Do not buy anything from Daraz. It's hard to even believe they are an Alibaba subsidiary. The refund process and customer service are horrible compared to AliExpress.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

gwompki said:


> I have had the XM3 for a few days now and while I really like it in terms of comfort, noise cancellation, features, I'm not crazy about the sound for the music I listen to mostly (rock, metal, indie, etc).  The mid bass seems a little wooly or overblown to my ears.  It's not incredibly textured or deep.  Can't hear true bass notes from bass guitar etc.  They do sound pretty amazing with some hip hop and electronic music.  The bass is good, but not totally impactful.  I must say I really did enjoy the XM3 while sitting at the pool trying to knock out some work on my laptop and being able to shut out all the background noise.  Also when taking them on a walk the ambient sound feature was also really nice so I could hear passing cars.
> 
> I'm hopeful the XM4 will address my sound quality issues.  If it does I will likely keep it and send the XM3 back.  If not, I might just keep the XM3.


I mean that's Sony's house sound. They've always been on the dark end of things.

If the MX4 don't work out and you can swing it, I'd suggest grabbing either a pair of ADV M5 or Technics AZ70W if you want something more metal-friendly. I've been putting just about every subgenre of metal I can think of through each and most everything's coming out on top. Each is plenty fast enough to handle 32/64-counts on the kick and the guitars don't end up completely lost in the mix. Just depends on whether you want a more bass-forward pair or treble-forward (without being sibilant or sharp).


----------



## chinmie (Jun 8, 2021)

gwompki said:


> I have had the XM3 for a few days now and while I really like it in terms of comfort, noise cancellation, features, I'm not crazy about the sound for the music I listen to mostly (rock, metal, indie, etc). The mid bass seems a little wooly or overblown to my ears. It's not incredibly textured or deep.



try cutting the Clear bass setting down. i usually set it at -3 or -2. i also initially don't like the midbass, but now i like it after that adjustment


----------



## Slowhand

Quite a few videos out on YouTube by now. In some people's ears they look good, in others less so.. lol


----------



## clerkpalmer

Reviews are coming on the xm4. So far looks excellent. Here is what CNET said about the SQ versus the PI7:

B tested these with the Bowers & Wilkins PI7, which arguably have the slight edge -- the PI7 may just be the best-sounding true-wireless earbuds out there right now. But the Sony WF-1000XM4's noise canceling and headset performance is superior and they cost $120 less, so you may see the PI7 comes down in price to compete with the Sony because it's hard to justify spending the extra dough on the PI7, even if its charging case doubles as a Bluetooth transceiver and it does support AptX Adaptive.


----------



## dj24

A bit off topic from the newly announced Sony but does anyone know if Jabra plans to release the 85T Actives anytime soon or have they given up on it since they haven't even announced them at this point?


----------



## Caipirina

I am intrigued by those new ear tips that come with the XM4 … the verge reviewer describes it as silicon covered foam? I’d love to get some extra and try on others …


----------



## Dregur

Slowhand said:


> Quite a few videos out on YouTube by now. In some people's ears they look good, in others less so.. lol


Looks like they're quite bulbous. My guess is that if you have small ears, it will look odd. But honestly, I think that's true with many of the mainstream TWS out there.


----------



## Dregur

Caipirina said:


> I am intrigued by those new ear tips that come with the XM4 … the verge reviewer describes it as silicon covered foam? I’d love to get some extra and try on others …


They sound similar to the foam tips that the XM3 came with.


----------



## mikp

lucklily for me sony did bring the showstopper:

_A round touch panel accepts taps for track controls and the virtual assistant on the right side while the left earbud can be used to toggle active noise cancellation (ANC) modes or activate the quick attention feature. Those are the default actions, but Sony’s app will allow you to reconfigure things as you see fit. Like the M3, you can opt for on-board volume controls on the M4. However, you’ll have to sacrifice either your playback controls or your ability to change quickly from noise cancelling to ambient sound._


----------



## helmutcheese (Jun 8, 2021)

Damn, that is poor as some cheaper TWS can do it all with 2 buttons including Playback/Skip Tracks/Vol/Assistant/ANC/Power On & Off

If I can have Vol and ANC On/Off I do not care about other modes.


----------



## clerkpalmer

Sony available now on Amazon and Best Buy. Delivery Friday.


----------



## helmutcheese




----------



## Thesonofkrypton

Yeah that’s quite annoying. Actually one of the best features of AirPods Pro was hands free volume adjustment. Hey Siri turn up the volume by 10%. Sorted.


----------



## helmutcheese (Jun 8, 2021)

Yea SoundPeats H1 Prem do that without touching, and other buds you just say it loud enough and the phone hears you and turns up volume (Android)


----------



## tinyman392

Caipirina said:


> I am intrigued by those new ear tips that come with the XM4 … the verge reviewer describes it as silicon covered foam? I’d love to get some extra and try on others …


Sony has had these tips for a while (if they're the standard hybrid tips with foam on the inside).  For the past decade at least, but generally only with their higher-end offerings.


----------



## webvan (Jun 8, 2021)

No look at the official Sony presentation video, the new tips are nothing like the old and now discontinued silicone+foam inside (there were really good) or the "mossy" ones that came with the XM3s and didn't work particularly well, in fact not at all for me, the new tips look A LOT like Comply tips, they'll have to be more durable though if not we're looking at an "eartipgate" for Sony 

EDIT - having said that it seems the actual eartips are different than in the official presentation, odd...

EDIT 2 : the "metallic mics" look a bit like earrings in some reviews, hehe...


----------



## helmutcheese (Jun 8, 2021)

They are some kind of hybrid mix, you can see the guy squeeze them in one of above videos, they are not normal foam looking as they would not last so they would give you silicon also in that case but they only give you these so they must be quite durable


----------



## bladefd

I'm leaning on you guys to tell me what you think about the xm4. You are my Guinea pigs! 

If they are great and a big improvement over the xm3 & melomania touch, I will consider them. Giving it a full month or two. I have yet to get the Melomania Touch rma'd, but that's coming soon too for the couple issues I have. I might consider selling them after rma if xm4 are vastly better.


----------



## webvan

We have a wind test here  - works well apparently, IRL testing needed though...


----------



## PixelSquish

Ordered the Sony's from Amazon. Will be here tomorrow (NJ)


----------



## tinyman392

I'm going to wait on measurements.  Sony has tended to be all over the place with SQ for me


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

dj24 said:


> A bit off topic from the newly announced Sony but does anyone know if Jabra plans to release the 85T Actives anytime soon or have they given up on it since they haven't even announced them at this point?


Haven't seen any updates on an 85t Active model, though they have been putting up regular sales via email for the 85t. Doesn't get you down to refurb pricing, but shows that they're probably trying to clear inventory.


mikp said:


> lucklily for me sony did bring the showstopper:
> 
> _A round touch panel accepts taps for track controls and the virtual assistant on the right side while the left earbud can be used to toggle active noise cancellation (ANC) modes or activate the quick attention feature. Those are the default actions, but Sony’s app will allow you to reconfigure things as you see fit. Like the M3, you can opt for on-board volume controls on the M4. However, you’ll have to sacrifice either your playback controls or your ability to change quickly from noise cancelling to ambient sound._


At least they're honest about it from the get-go. Truth be told, I'm so used to _not _having volume control on my buds that treat almost all of my pairs like IEMs without wires at this point. Might not be something I'd miss so much, but the concerns about size that people are raising would be.


tinyman392 said:


> I'm going to wait on measurements.  Sony has tended to be all over the place with SQ for me


Yep. This is where I'm at as well. If they follow their Sony house sound, it doesn't matter what EQ I apply; there's no way to get rid of that extra warmth. They've got the occasional stunner, though.


----------



## Dregur

tinyman392 said:


> I'm going to wait on measurements.  Sony has tended to be all over the place with SQ for me


Soundguys had some measurements:

https://www.soundguys.com/sony-wf-1000xm4-review-53454/


----------



## Dregur

bladefd said:


> I'm leaning on you guys to tell me what you think about the xm4. You are my Guinea pigs!
> 
> If they are great and a big improvement over the xm3 & melomania touch, I will consider them. Giving it a full month or two. I have yet to get the Melomania Touch rma'd, but that's coming soon too for the couple issues I have. I might consider selling them after rma if xm4 are vastly better.


I own the XM3, and went through two Melomania Touches (both returned) so I can give you direct comparisons.


----------



## tinyman392 (Jun 8, 2021)

Dregur said:


> Soundguys had some measurements:
> 
> https://www.soundguys.com/sony-wf-1000xm4-review-53454/


The bass bump definitely is there, but isn't too aggressive but paired with the recessed high end, I see a very dark sounding headphone.  Though I'm not sure what their target plot is in the maroon/red.  My personal preference is like a 5-ish dB bump in the bass with a DF neutral plot the rest of the way.  This headphone won't sound bad though from what I see, just a tad dark.  I'll definitely debate on whether or not I want to pull the trigger on it or just wait.  The price on them will probably drop by the end of the year 

Edit: though it also looks like the reviewer is using the foam tips.  Foam tips in general have a tendency to cut out highs.  This pushes me to want to get them eventually.  That case is a lot smaller too which is a huge plus.


----------



## Robius

Another review: https://www.gsmarena.com/sony_wf1000xm4_review-news-49510.php


----------



## mainguy

clerkpalmer said:


> Reviews are coming on the xm4. So far looks excellent. Here is what CNET said about the SQ versus the PI7:
> 
> B tested these with the Bowers & Wilkins PI7, which arguably have the slight edge -- the PI7 may just be the best-sounding true-wireless earbuds out there right now. But the Sony WF-1000XM4's noise canceling and headset performance is superior and they cost $120 less, so you may see the PI7 comes down in price to compete with the Sony because it's hard to justify spending the extra dough on the PI7, even if its charging case doubles as a Bluetooth transceiver and it does support AptX Adaptive.


Bit more of an analytical take on SQ here, says they're trumped by the MW08 
https://www.digitaltrends.com/headphone-reviews/sony-wf-1000xm4-review/

Hmm im tempted to get them and run them up against the PI7


----------



## davidcotton

Caipirina said:


> I am intrigued by those new ear tips that come with the XM4 … the verge reviewer describes it as silicon covered foam? I’d love to get some extra and try on others …


Easy to make your own.  Get silicone tip of choice, smaller size foam tip.  Stretch silicone over foam for a nice fit and then trim the excess foam off.


----------



## clerkpalmer

mainguy said:


> Bit more of an analytical take on SQ here, says they're trumped by the MW08
> https://www.digitaltrends.com/headphone-reviews/sony-wf-1000xm4-review/
> 
> Hmm im tempted to get them and run them up against the PI7


Lord I hope not. Clarity and MW08 do not go together at all. MW08 are a muddy mess. PI7 would be a good comparison. Guessing the pI7 get the edge on sq bit the Sony the edge on overall package. This review was well done but I am skeptic on the notion that the XM3 offer more clarity. That seems hard for me to fathom. I guess we shall see.


----------



## clerkpalmer

clerkpalmer said:


> Lord I hope not. Clarity and MW08 do not go together at all. MW08 are a muddy mess. PI7 would be a good comparison. Guessing the pI7 get the edge on sq bit the Sony the edge on overall package. This review was well done but I am skeptic on the notion that the XM3 offer more clarity. That seems hard for me to fathom. I guess we shall see.


Here is what Ars Technica has to say:

When it comes to sound quality, though, a headphone's design and tuning are more important than features like those. In this case, the XM4 has a punchy sound with impactful bass and a boost to the lower midrange. Compared head-to-head, the AirPods Pro have a more neutral and balanced profile with a greater sense of space; this is particularly the case in the treble range, which the XM4 tends to underemphasize by default. That doesn’t mean the XM4 sounds bad, though. Its low-end doesn’t sound muddy or overblown; it’s just in-your-face, which many may enjoy with hip-hop, pop, and certain rock tracks that welcome that oomph.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

clerkpalmer said:


> Here is what Ars Technica has to say:
> 
> When it comes to sound quality, though, a headphone's design and tuning are more important than features like those. In this case, the XM4 has a punchy sound with impactful bass and a boost to the lower midrange. Compared head-to-head, the AirPods Pro have a more neutral and balanced profile with a greater sense of space; this is particularly the case in the treble range, which the XM4 tends to underemphasize by default. That doesn’t mean the XM4 sounds bad, though. Its low-end doesn’t sound muddy or overblown; it’s just in-your-face, which many may enjoy with hip-hop, pop, and certain rock tracks that welcome that oomph.


Sounds Sony dark to me: heavy on the midbass, treble rolled off too early. Favors impact over texture/detail. Some people like that signature, but I'm too much of a resolution freak.


----------



## davidcotton

One thing I like the sound of is the automatic pause music when people talk to you mode.  I’m blind on my right side and I’ve lost count of the times I’ve had a near heart attack after someones come up to me on that side.  Do any other tws have that option?


----------



## tinyman392

From measurements I'd probably say veiled might be a good way to describe the bass.  But I haven't heard them, but basing that one the small snippets of that Ars review.  



davidcotton said:


> One thing I like the sound of is the automatic pause music when people talk to you mode.  I’m blind on my right side and I’ve lost count of the times I’ve had a near heart attack after someones come up to me on that side.  Do any other tws have that option?


I think Sony is the first to do this one.  Apple does have a new upcoming feature that will isolate all sound except the person talking in front of you though which seems pretty cool.  No auto-pause for that though.


----------



## snapandslide

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Sounds Sony dark to me: heavy on the midbass, treble rolled off too early. Favors impact over texture/detail. Some people like that signature, but I'm too much of a resolution freak.


I think use case is a big thing here - for on the go, don’t care too much about resolution.

For me to upgrade - need some real life here about fit. After using mine today, I get fatigued after a couple of hours.


----------



## Lewislink2

bladefd said:


> I felt the exact opposite of the cx400bt sound. I tried them for a month and felt they had great sound. You sure you had good isolation and tried a variety of music? They were very uncomfortable though so I returned them


Oh yeah, they fit well and sealed well, but the sound without EQ was terrible. Once I set the EQ in the app to about 80% treble boost, minus 20% mid and neutral bass, they sounded good. But I don't like relying on tweaked systems so I returned them. Gotta sound good outside of any EQ tweaking for me to keep them.


----------



## tinyman392

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Sounds Sony dark to me: heavy on the midbass, treble rolled off too early. Favors impact over texture/detail. Some people like that signature, but I'm too much of a resolution freak.


Does Sony have a custom EQ yet?  Realistically a treble booster might just do the trick.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

tinyman392 said:


> Does Sony have a custom EQ yet?  Realistically a treble booster might just do the trick.


I honestly don't know. Stopped buying their stuff after my sent our A45 through the wash. Hoping so.


----------



## Thesonofkrypton

I listen to a fair amount of electronic and I found the xm3 to be great for that. I’m looking forward to hearing what sonic improvements there are with the new set.


----------



## tinyman392

miserybeforethemusic said:


> I honestly don't know. Stopped buying their stuff after my sent our A45 through the wash. Hoping so.


The last Sony headphone I got was the XM(1).  Descriptions above kind of match what I think of those


----------



## clerkpalmer

tinyman392 said:


> Does Sony have a custom EQ yet?  Realistically a treble booster might just do the trick.


Yes I believe they do.


----------



## Luke Skywalker

miserybeforethemusic said:


> I mean I could flip the script and judge them absent a price tag. That tends to make people pretty frustrated hahahaha.
> 
> As far as what I've been reaching for more lately:
> 
> ...


Hey Misery, 

****So for your TWS list*****

1) ADV M5:  did you get the customs?  Might be worth it for $500! 

2) UE Fits: Ordered! 

3) HiBy: don’t know why I never thought of getting these since my DAP is a HiBy R6 Pro *head smack*  However it looks like the WH2s are coming out with LDAC. I emailed HiBy to ask them when I can order. 

*******I love the IEM -> TWS adapter idea; I never thought of doing that.*******

Some people are saying the Fiio UTWS3 is superior to the iBasso. What do you think? 

I had planned to use my JH Lola’s for this but mine have a 4 pin connector and it seems like a pain to get an MMCX adapter.  So I might keep the Lola’s for wired listening and get new IEMs. 

So now I have to figure out which of the two you suggested to get or to throw caution to the wind and get something for $1,000+ like the Audeze Euclid for a bad a$$ setup  

Thanks again for the playlists!


----------



## Lewislink2

Can anyone recommend wireless IEMs that sound like Samsung's Galaxy Buds? I'm wanting plenty of highs and tightly controlled bass. The Galaxy Buds provide really transparent and crisp highs and very tight bass control.

Compared to the Galaxy Buds, what do the B&W PI5 or PI7 sound like?


----------



## tinyman392

Luke Skywalker said:


> Hey Misery,
> 
> ****So for your TWS list*****
> 
> ...


Also note that Shure has a TWS adapter too  There are plenty of them to go around.  I just received another set of (smaller) tips for my Fits just now; they are so much more secure in my ear now


----------



## howdy

davidcotton said:


> One thing I like the sound of is the automatic pause music when people talk to you mode.  I’m blind on my right side and I’ve lost count of the times I’ve had a near heart attack after someones come up to me on that side.  Do any other tws have that option?


The Samsung Galaxy buds pro have this feature as well. I have to shut it off when using the lawnmower or leaf blower as it is triggered sometimes and it can be loud. Otherwise, for talking it works good.


----------



## Luke Skywalker

On a totally random note… the wife fell asleep last night while we were watching a movie on my Fire Stick. I happened to have my NUARL N6P’s within reach so I paired them and switched to Castlevania on Netflix… man they blow away the built in tv speakers.


----------



## Luke Skywalker

tinyman392 said:


> Also note that Shure has a TWS adapter too  There are plenty of them to go around.  I just received another set of (smaller) tips for my Fits just now; they are so much more secure in my ear now


Man… now I have 3 options to try to pick from  

really tempted to go Euclid + Fiio


----------



## tinyman392

Luke Skywalker said:


> Man… now I have 3 options to try to pick from
> 
> really tempted to go Euclid + Fiio


There are a lot of choices.  Right now I've only used the UTWS3 and TRN.  The Shure is a bit pricey and I haven't play with the iBasso.  The Euclid can be a bit finicky with source.


----------



## Caipirina

davidcotton said:


> Easy to make your own.  Get silicone tip of choice, smaller size foam tip.  Stretch silicone over foam for a nice fit and then trim the excess foam off.


We have different definitions of the word 'easy'    But thanks for the suggestion


----------



## Slowhand

It will also be interesting to see XM4 owners share EQ presets and how well the buds respond to EQing in the first place


----------



## davidcotton

tinyman392 said:


> From measurements I'd probably say veiled might be a good way to describe the bass.  But I haven't heard them, but basing that one the small snippets of that Ars review.
> 
> 
> I think Sony is the first to do this one.  Apple does have a new upcoming feature that will isolate all sound except the person talking in front of you though which seems pretty cool.  No auto-pause for that though.


Thanks.  One thing I’m not sure on is if it activates when someone talks to you, or if it only activates when you talk?


----------



## webvan

More likely when the wearer speaks, using the bike conducting mic, if not the might be lots of false positivesm


----------



## tinyman392

davidcotton said:


> Thanks.  One thing I’m not sure on is if it activates when someone talks to you, or if it only activates when you talk?


I guess this can be answered by the many people who are getting their hands on it


----------



## tinyman392

webvan said:


> More likely when the wearer speaks, using the bike conducting mic, if not the might be lots of false positivesm


That might be problematic...  Both false positives and false negatives would be no fun.  I kind of had that issue with the head detection on my B&W PX.  Was kind of annoying.


----------



## webvan

Yes it's a concern, I meant to write "bone conducting" of course.


----------



## davidcotton

Caipirina said:


> We have different definitions of the word 'easy'    But thanks for the suggestion


Looks like the sony tips are not like that anyway!


----------



## jant71

clerkpalmer said:


> I’ve spent a small fortune trying to find the “perfect” biking tws. So far I keep coming up empty. Either fit issues, wind noise or both. I realize that over 20mph or so wind is going to be an issue nevertheless I’m still on the hunt.
> 
> so the new Jaybird claims they have “wind defense”. Does anyone think this is a real thing? They are pricey for bike only buds but I am intrigued.



Still have to put forth the JVC HA-AE5T. Best earphone I have had for wind noise. Sweet fit as I just push them in and they stick there more than any other TWS. Sound is solid and they have on board bass boost good for use with the eambient tips for running. Not the top sound though. The Victor is a better sounding TWS and the AT is as well but not by much. Still nice sounding but okay for the $150 price but perfectly tuned for sports/active stuff. Issues I have is noise on the hear through as the mics should have been better. I always go back to them and they sound better than I give them credit for but they are a keeper for how they handle being a runners earphone and can deal with either wind and footstep noise. Still, you get better sound for less than the $150 but you can't get the other stuff so you kind of pay for the good touch controls and fit and being good with wind and runners thud.



This Sony XM4 sound is actually making me more happy buying the Sabbat and holding off on the Sony. My JVC and Victor, and CKR70TW have all been the bass sloping down to treble on the darker side and EQ up the high end sort of thing. The magnetostat does give the E16 easily my favorite TWS treble. Not sure I will go back to a single driver TWS again. I liked what the Tape was trying to do but they messed it up, my UM 3DT works the triple dynamic right, as does my AZLA with it's bullseye driver with the Knowles built right through the center of a donut shaped dynamic and now the magneto combo driver with better tuning also doing the more unique layering and presenting in a way a single driver can't. Can't 3D layer and overlap and image using the surface area of a single dynamic in the same way. Maybe if Sony turned their N3 into a stemmed TWS I might be more interested.


----------



## C_Lindbergh (Jun 8, 2021)

I had to pre order the new Sonys from Amazon.

Im very excited about the new technical improvements, however I'm a bit worried about the sound profile.

Hopefully these do support the upcoming LE audio on a hardware basis.

Im not surprised that Sony have failed once again when it comes to naming their product haha... Just name these the "Sony Buds" or something simple like that.

If only a technology company could partner up with a company with vast experience with IEMs... Imagine the TWS that could come of that partnership.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

Luke Skywalker said:


> Hey Misery,
> 
> ****So for your TWS list*****
> 
> ...


No problem! What good is talking about gear when you don't listen to anything on 'em 

1) Nope. Still using the universal review pair. ADV's own site says the custom has a slightly different tuning as well ("neutral" vs "balanced"). I don't know if there's much value to getting custom TWS, unless there was some way to service the battery over time. Considering that's probably not the case, I'm good with the universals and they fit plenty well on their own.

2) I'll give the same advice that was given to me: have some patience with the FITS. Even when you start with the molding process, I learned that minimal pressure (only what's needed to keep them in place) is preferred to pushing them into your ears. I did that with set #2 and ended up with some gnarly hotspots. With the way the gel fills in those voids, I think it's more important to nail and maintain an effective seal while the form is being made. I'm really glad they let me try a third time around or I'd have kept them in the bin for much longer. In terms of sound sig, be patient. It usually takes me a good 30-45 minutes until my ears get into the FITS' sweet spot where I'm equal parts enjoying and analyzing. And, honestly, that's probably the FITS' biggest strength: they're like a mildly more fun ER4XR. Not nearly as resolving, but dang close, especially with drums and orchestral stuff.

3) Because the WH3 was their first venture into the TWS space? Their numbering convention is so backwards imo. Wouldn't it make more sense to start with the WH1 and work your way up? Barring the addition of LDAC, which I'm still curious to see in terms of battery tradeoff, I don't think I'm as big a fan of the driver choices with the WH2, either. You only get 2 BAs or a single DD, meaning you don't even get to utilize the crossover with the DD version. LDAC implementation is going to have to be absolutely _perfect _to make the WH2 worth more than what I think the WH3 are currently worth. I think they are priced slightly below the WH3's original price point, but the campaign page hasn't launched so I'm not 100% sure.

Regarding the IEM/TWS adapter, it's such a simple idea, but I can see how the tuning of these things matters. I ended up with the CF01 mainly because of availability, but also because its nominal impedance looked like a really good match for the P1, which is notorious for being fussy with portable sources. I figured if I could get the two of those to work together, the purchase would have been totally worth it. Getting the 2-pin adapters from OE just blew the doors open on what that meant I could use. While I haven't tested Fiio or TRN's versions, I could see a chief complaint being how cramped your IEM will be inside their cases; with the CF01, there's plenty of room (and padding) which makes me feel a lot more confident about things staying protected while I'm on the go. Add in wireless charging and more than satisfactory battery life and it's an all-around great experience. I could see how trying to convert 4-pin to MMCX would be tough; only thing I could suggest is reaching out to OE to see if they know any way to make that happen. You may just be a better candidate for the 5K and going semi-wireless instead of TWS. Food for thought.

While the P1 _works _with the CF01, I want to be clear about something: it's a power-user level sort of "work." Might as well share what @samandhi and I have been trying to figure out offline...we've noticed that apps going through Android's volume control tend to receive some audible distortion once you get to about 65% volume. My guess is that this doesn't sit well with the amplification inside the CF01, so either it or the phone's BT stack end up taking signals that are already pretty close to clipping and throws them right over it. This is where I think some of the harsher edge in the upper midrange is coming from (granted, it's plenty listenable and I'm only mentioning this in comparison to performance out of a good wired source). Our workaround was to use AGP (Auto-Gain Protection) within Neutron, which seemed to take care of the issue, but that leaves you with only the ability to listen to what you host locally. This will be a big caveat for folks who already listen to brickwalled content. Please keep that in mind.

So it's a chicken/egg problem: is the P1 so resolving that it's pulling out audible distortion in the BT chain or is the CF01 just distorting on its own? Maybe it's a little bit of both, but that doesn't stop me from enjoying the living blazes out of the combo.


----------



## mainguy

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Sounds Sony dark to me: heavy on the midbass, treble rolled off too early. Favors impact over texture/detail. Some people like that signature, but I'm too much of a resolution freak.


sounds very different to the PI7 then by that description, they're hella resolving for an iem and trade impact for accuracy. Id say the airpods pro have more impact than the pi7 for instance.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

mainguy said:


> sounds very different to the PI7 then by that description, they're hella resolving for an iem and trade impact for accuracy. Id say the airpods pro have more impact than the pi7 for instance.


So would you say the PI7's bass is more diffused? Could be similar in signature to the Technics from the midrange-up if that's the case.


----------



## gocam

I'll keep this short - Nuarl N10 Pro's are on Amazon right now for $158 Prime. That is a very good deal. I have the 6Ps and a swathe of other sets, these sound wonderful once you get a good fit, which is easy given the range of tips you give you, silicon and foam (I'm currently using foam). There is a single review on amazon that is not particularly helpful nor representative of my experience. I highly recommend giving them a try - the physical buttons make making adjustments easy, and the firmware update was no problem at all.


----------



## samandhi

gocam said:


> I'll keep this short - Nuarl N10 Pro's are on Amazon right now for $158 Prime. That is a very good deal. I have the 6Ps and a swathe of other sets, these sound wonderful once you get a good fit, which is easy given the range of tips you give you, silicon and foam (I'm currently using foam). There is a single review on amazon that is not particularly helpful nor representative of my experience. I highly recommend giving them a try - the physical buttons make making adjustments easy, and the firmware update was no problem at all.


So how would you compare the N10 to the N6P sound-wise?


----------



## Thesonofkrypton

C_Lindbergh said:


> I had to pre order the new Sonys from Amazon.
> 
> Im very excited about the new technical improvements, however I'm a bit worried about the sound profile.
> 
> ...



Apple should have partnered up with Sony rather than Beats. Especially since Jobs admired Sony’s quality control and know how back when Apple was in its infancy. He held them in very high regard.


----------



## PixelSquish (Jun 8, 2021)

C_Lindbergh said:


> I had to pre order the new Sonys from Amazon.
> 
> Im very excited about the new technical improvements, however I'm a bit worried about the sound profile.
> 
> ...


I wouldn't worry too much about the sound profile. Multiple reviews said the sound was excellent, not overly warm. In fact one review said some may find the bass lacking compared to other offerings. Get it and see how you feel.

Excited for my first Sony audio product in a long time. One review said they got 7 hours with ANC on at MAX volume. Impressive. Nearly double my MTW2.


----------



## bladefd

tinyman392 said:


> Does Sony have a custom EQ yet?  Realistically a treble booster might just do the trick.


Yeah, the EQ was solid on the xm3 when I tried them in December/Jan


----------



## bladefd

Thesonofkrypton said:


> Apple should have partnered up with Sony rather than Beats. Especially since Jobs admired Sony’s quality control and know how back when Apple was in its infancy. He held them in very high regard.


Didn't Apple buy Beats company outright? Probably much more lucrative profit-wise to own the company altogether than to partner with Sony and split profits.


----------



## bladefd

Hmm, xm4 seem to stick out pretty far.. That's one of the reasons why I returned the AZ70 after trying it for 2 weeks.


----------



## Luke Skywalker

gocam said:


> I'll keep this short - Nuarl N10 Pro's are on Amazon right now for $158 Prime. That is a very good deal. I have the 6Ps and a swathe of other sets, these sound wonderful once you get a good fit, which is easy given the range of tips you give you, silicon and foam (I'm currently using foam). There is a single review on amazon that is not particularly helpful nor representative of my experience. I highly recommend giving them a try - the physical buttons make making adjustments easy, and the firmware update was no problem at all.


So tempting… I love the N6P; its only weakness is the lack of ANC. 

Does the N10P sound better?  How’s the Noise Canceling?  

I wish they had Aptx HD/LL and LDAC


----------



## jant71 (Jun 8, 2021)

So, no aptX, doesn't sound good out of the box, and seems wind noise is an issue with ANC and transparency on. Transparency, mic performance, and ANC are very good. That Nuarl at $158 sounds like a better deal lol! $200 may be a bit too much for the Vista 2.


----------



## tinyman392

miserybeforethemusic said:


> No problem! What good is talking about gear when you don't listen to anything on 'em
> 
> 1) Nope. Still using the universal review pair. ADV's own site says the custom has a slightly different tuning as well ("neutral" vs "balanced"). I don't know if there's much value to getting custom TWS, unless there was some way to service the battery over time. Considering that's probably not the case, I'm good with the universals and they fit plenty well on their own.
> 
> ...


Interesting. I ended up pushing them into my ears slightly when molding the Fits. I do keep a relaxed jaw though since that’s something that you’re supposed to do when you get fitted for CIEMs. 


Thesonofkrypton said:


> Apple should have partnered up with Sony rather than Beats. Especially since Jobs admired Sony’s quality control and know how back when Apple was in its infancy. He held them in very high regard.





bladefd said:


> Didn't Apple buy Beats company outright? Probably much more lucrative profit-wise to own the company altogether than to partner with Sony and split profits.


Apple partnered with Beats to formulate Beats One. If I’m not mistaken Beats was just a side product of the acquisition. Granted that’s not a bad side product by any means.


----------



## SilverEars (Jun 8, 2021)

bladefd said:


> Hmm, xm4 seem to stick out pretty far.. That's one of the reasons why I returned the AZ70 after trying it for 2 weeks.


One of the videos, I've heard it's 10% smaller?  That 90% had to be shifted in other ways so that it doesn't point out like before, but it looks a bit bulky still.  Also, that might be a small head though. lol

The more reviews I'm seeing, I'm less and less thrilled with the ergonomics.  I get a feeling it will pop out while jobbing.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic (Jun 8, 2021)

jant71 said:


> So, no aptX, doesn't sound good out of the box, and seems wind noise is an issue with ANC and transparency on. Transparency, mic performance, and ANC are very good. That Nuarl at $158 sounds like a better deal lol! $200 may be a bit too much for the Vista 2.


Guess that's a pass, then. Darn...it had promise.


tinyman392 said:


> Interesting. I ended up pushing them into my ears slightly when molding the Fits. I do keep a relaxed jaw though since that’s something that you’re supposed to do when you get fitted for CIEMs.


That's why I tried to follow all those suggestions you mentioned on attempt #2, but I overcompensated. Third attempt went great, thankfully. You really can tell once you've got a good seal on a pair that fits properly (ha). Very similar to doing the Ety shuffle (am I deep enough...nope too deep... where's the bass?)

Oh and looks like someone already reviewed the WH2:





https://headfonics.com/hiby-wh2-review/

Tips look uncannily like the ones that ship with the M5. Way more comfy and tend to stay in my ears better than the ones that come with the WH3. Don't know if I'm a fan of the overall depth, though. Seems like a pretty shallow fit.

Guess I'm in for a 2-BA set. I'll probably join the campaign when it goes live. I'll have to pull that $160 out of somewhere...


----------



## bladefd

tinyman392 said:


> Apple partnered with Beats to formulate Beats One. If I’m not mistaken Beats was just a side product of the acquisition. Granted that’s not a bad side product by any means.


I'm pretty sure Apple bought the entire Beats company some years back. That's when Dr Dre became a billionaire after selling Beats to Apple.


----------



## tinyman392

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Guess that's a pass, then. Darn...it had promise.
> 
> That's why I tried to follow all those suggestions you mentioned on attempt #2, but I overcompensated. Third attempt went great, thankfully. You really can tell once you've got a good seal on a pair that fits properly (ha). Very similar to doing the Ety shuffle (am I deep enough...nope too deep... where's the bass?)
> 
> ...


The stock size was too big for me. So I had to go s size smaller which I received today. Fit much better than before. But I did kind of hold them in place while I kept my jaw relaxed. The outcome is what matters I guess. 


bladefd said:


> I'm pretty sure Apple bought the entire Beats company some years back. That's when Dr Dre became a billionaire after selling Beats to Apple.


Yeah. But their main intent was to boost their Music platform since those coincided with each other. Or at least that’s what was reported.


----------



## clerkpalmer

jant71 said:


> So, no aptX, doesn't sound good out of the box, and seems wind noise is an issue with ANC and transparency on. Transparency, mic performance, and ANC are very good. That Nuarl at $158 sounds like a better deal lol! $200 may be a bit too much for the Vista 2.



Does ANC ever work with wind noise?  These are definitely overpriced at $200. Jaybird can get away with this because of their dedicated fitness crowd following. Otherwise these would be DOA at that price. Too bad, they look solid for hard exercising but they need to be 150.


----------



## clerkpalmer

SilverEars said:


> One of the videos, I've heard it's 10% smaller?  That 90% had to be shifted in other ways so that it doesn't point out like before, but it looks a bit bulky still.  Also, that might be a small head though. lol
> 
> The more reviews I'm seeing, I'm less and less thrilled with the ergonomics.  I get a feeling it will pop out while jobbing.


That pic does not look good but the others I’ve seen don’t look that bad. Agree on ergonomics but it appears this is an issue for everyone. The pI7, the Gemini, M&D, the Bose and countless others all suffer from less than ideal ergonomics. Only the sennheiser really stands out in this regard.


----------



## Luke Skywalker

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Guess that's a pass, then. Darn...it had promise.
> 
> That's why I tried to follow all those suggestions you mentioned on attempt #2, but I overcompensated. Third attempt went great, thankfully. You really can tell once you've got a good seal on a pair that fits properly (ha). Very similar to doing the Ety shuffle (am I deep enough...nope too deep... where's the bass?)
> 
> ...


WH2: Wow nice…yes, their product naming system is kind of idiotic. I checked Kickstarter and I’m not seeing anything for the WH2


----------



## jant71 (Jun 8, 2021)

clerkpalmer said:


> Does ANC ever work with wind noise?  These are definitely overpriced at $200. Jaybird can get away with this because of their dedicated fitness crowd following. Otherwise these would be DOA at that price. Too bad, they look solid for hard exercising but they need to be 150.


Though didn't I see something in a pic saying "Wind Defense" or some such and it was said the ANC and also transparency needed to be shut off so makes it seem pretty bad if they feel those modes become unusable. It is early though and seems three mentions of it. 3 mentions that it is an issue so quick is not a good sign and certainly something people interested should keep an eye on.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

Luke Skywalker said:


> WH2: Wow nice…yes, their product naming system is kind of idiotic. I checked Kickstarter and I’m not seeing anything for the WH2


Campaign isn't live yet. Haven't seen any info on when it starts, but I'll mention something here if I see it.


----------



## clerkpalmer

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Campaign isn't live yet. Haven't seen any info on when it starts, but I'll mention something here if I see it.


Price came in nice. Form factor looks solid as well. Definitely worth a look.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

clerkpalmer said:


> Price came in nice. Form factor looks solid as well. Definitely worth a look.


Agreed. I'd have been upset if they were asking more for either variant, but that doesn't seem to be the case. I'm curious to see if there's going to be any early bird discounting on this one, but I'm in for a 2-BA just to compare them against the WH3.


----------



## clerkpalmer

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Agreed. I'd have been upset if they were asking more for either variant, but that doesn't seem to be the case. I'm curious to see if there's going to be any early bird discounting on this one, but I'm in for a 2-BA just to compare them against the WH3.


The review mentioned some perks will be offered so hopefully we can save a few bucks.


----------



## chinmie

bladefd said:


> Hmm, xm4 seem to stick out pretty far.. That's one of the reasons why I returned the AZ70 after trying it for 2 weeks.



I'm waiting for a direct comparison of size and un-EQd freq curve of the XM4 to the XM3.. i haven't seen a picture of the same person wearing them both as a comparison.

with Sony hybrid tips i can wear the XM3 almost flush, hugging the face like airpods pro. I'm worried this XM4 will not be as flush


----------



## Dregur (Jun 9, 2021)

So I have the XM4's and I've listen them for about 20 minutes to make some first impressions:

First thing, YMMV, but they fit MUCH better than the XM3's. They are not the most comfortable TWS I've ever wore (Damn you MT. Damn you all to hell), but they are more secure and I can get a better seal with the foam tips more consistently. For my admittedly large ear holes, they sit flatter than the XM3, and I would say they actually are in my ear a tiny bit shallower than the XM3. However, they are still rather large, they're no Galaxy Buds Pro.

The case is a little more than half the height of the XM3 case, about 25% less long, and very slightly less wide. The case opening is pretty loose, but open it far enough, and it clicks and locks open. Much more portable.






So the bad news first: If you use the app to get the optimal "wearing condition" to get the best seal to have the most efficient ANC, these things are bass monsters. Also, the mids are weirdly tuned out of the box, and the treble roll off is considerable. They are very dark, very much the Sony house sound.

However, the EQ does work pretty well. It's not the most granular I've ever seen, but it does make a difference. This is the settings I'm currently using based on the measurements that SoundGuys posted on their review to try and even out some of the peaks and valleys.:





It tames the booming bass quite well, and makes it sound much less darker than before. I'm still tweaking things as I hear more. Again, your YMMV dependent on your listening preferences.

Overall, the tech and form factors are so much better than the XM3. Sound wise, due to the improved fit, I actually like them even if I have to tweak the EQ to tame the bass.

Edit: Also a tip for those that are getting it: Update your sony headphone app. The fast pairing didn't work for me at first, until I updated the app.

Edit 2: I ended up boosting the 6.3k and 16k to +2 and +3 respectively.  But I think for me, it's the 6.3k is the one I'm going to be tweaking the most, it's the one that is sounding "off" for me dependent on what music I'm listening to. Haven't figure the best level for me yet.


----------



## BLUDGEON

Can each bud be used independently?


----------



## nanaholic (Jun 9, 2021)

chinmie said:


> i haven't seen a picture of the same person wearing them both as a comparison.



https://av.watch.impress.co.jp/docs/review/minireview/1329756.html

They use the same female model and angle for this mini-review for size comparison.


----------



## Caipirina

I am starting to get a bit worried about the fit of the XM4 … this German dude had them for a week, and this is the best fit he found?


----------



## chinmie

nanaholic said:


> https://av.watch.impress.co.jp/docs/review/minireview/1329756.html
> 
> They use the same female model and angel for this mini-review for size comparison.



nice! thanks. from that picture, it seems the XM4 is more flush than the XM3, that's a positive point for me


----------



## Dregur

BLUDGEON said:


> Can each bud be used independently?


Not sure if I'm doing something wrong, but I can only get the right bud to work independently.


----------



## Dregur

Caipirina said:


> I am starting to get a bit worried about the fit of the XM4 … this German dude had them for a week, and this is the best fit he found?


I mean, that technically works, I guess. But that just seems like a really shallow fit...


----------



## bladefd

Dregur said:


> Not sure if I'm doing something wrong, but I can only get the right bud to work independently.


Their chip might be limited in that perspective then. Independent pairing should be the norm nowadays imo - that and multipoint


----------



## webvan

Caipirina said:


> I am starting to get a bit worried about the fit of the XM4 … this German dude had them for a week, and this is the best fit he found?



Yeah that's bad, it's the sort of fit I got with the SiFi I, MPOW M5 or the Panasonics, unless you have small ears that form factor really doesn't work as there is nothing to hold the buds in place. Not sure what manufacturers are thinking as the Echo Buds 2 are similar. Make them larger but less deep !


----------



## FYLegend

Dregur said:


> So I have the XM4's and I've listen them for about 20 minutes to make some first impressions:
> 
> First thing, YMMV, but they fit MUCH better than the XM3's. They are not the most comfortable TWS I've ever wore (Damn you MT. Damn you all to hell), but they are more secure and I can get a better seal with the foam tips more consistently. For my admittedly large ear holes, they sit flatter than the XM3, and I would say they actually are in my ear a tiny bit shallower than the XM3. However, they are still rather large, they're no Galaxy Buds Pro.
> 
> ...


Are EQ settings saved onto the earbuds so that I can use them across multiple platforms, or does it just work for the earbuds?

Any info about the SBC bitpool? You're still stuck with SBC on Windows 10 so it better be 52-53...


----------



## Aevum

I wonder if they sell the tips, they look pretty good,


----------



## helmutcheese

FYLegend said:


> Are EQ settings saved onto the earbuds so that I can use them across multiple platforms, or does it just work for the earbuds?
> 
> Any info about the SBC bitpool? You're still stuck with SBC on Windows 10 so it better be 52-53...


Windows 10 now supports AAC if that matters to you.


----------



## BLUDGEON

Dregur said:


> Not sure if I'm doing something wrong, but I can only get the right bud to work independently.


Thanks for checking that.

Damn that's disappointing though, I really value that feature for podcast listening.  I like having just one bud in, and it's good to switch it up to give each ear a chance to breathe.


----------



## Darkestred

SilverEars said:


> One of the videos, I've heard it's 10% smaller?  That 90% had to be shifted in other ways so that it doesn't point out like before, but it looks a bit bulky still.  Also, that might be a small head though. lol
> 
> The more reviews I'm seeing, I'm less and less thrilled with the ergonomics.  I get a feeling it will pop out while jobbing.



monster...indeed...recruiters...sweating...can't miss a beat when i upload my resume.  haha.  sorry.

Shame so far on the sony's.  Still dont need another pair of TWS, yet i want one.


----------



## SilverEars

Dregur said:


> So I have the XM4's and I've listen them for about 20 minutes to make some first impressions:
> 
> First thing, YMMV, but they fit MUCH better than the XM3's. They are not the most comfortable TWS I've ever wore (Damn you MT. Damn you all to hell), but they are more secure and I can get a better seal with the foam tips more consistently. For my admittedly large ear holes, they sit flatter than the XM3, and I would say they actually are in my ear a tiny bit shallower than the XM3. However, they are still rather large, they're no Galaxy Buds Pro.
> 
> ...


Tame the bass?  Don't like the sound of that.  I hope they didn't tunr it like the full-sized bass.  I wouldn't be surprised if they did as the audience is mainstream.


----------



## Luke Skywalker

Ordered the N10 Pro last night


----------



## C_Lindbergh

"LDAC has a detrimental impact on that otherwise exceptional battery life, too. If you’ve got noise cancellation active and are streaming LDAC, it drops to the typical five hours of continuous playback."

Just what I suspectd, even tho 5 hours isn't that awful, but it still a noticeable hit compared to 8-12 with AAC.

https://www.theverge.com/22523584/sony-wf-1000xm4-wireless-earbuds-headphones-review


----------



## helmutcheese

Ah so promote their LDAC but battery claims are using AAC.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

C_Lindbergh said:


> "LDAC has a detrimental impact on that otherwise exceptional battery life, too. If you’ve got noise cancellation active and are streaming LDAC, it drops to the typical five hours of continuous playback."
> 
> Just what I suspectd, even tho 5 hours isn't that awful, but it still a noticeable hit compared to 8-12 with AAC.
> 
> https://www.theverge.com/22523584/sony-wf-1000xm4-wireless-earbuds-headphones-review


Shouldn't have been a surprise to anybody that LDAC would result in a pretty significant battery hit. 5 hours with ANC/LDAC on, though, is pretty impressive. Wouldn't scoff at that.


helmutcheese said:


> Ah so promote their LDAC but battery claims are using AAC.


You'll find that's pretty standard for a lot of companies. Their battery estimates will be performed with really weird criteria, like:

Volume at 10%
Streaming over SBC (or AAC)
While only playing the Macarena
Moon is a waxing crescent
The Magic 8-Ball has been broken out and many questions asked


----------



## helmutcheese (Jun 9, 2021)

Yes I know but many claim Vol 50% and SoundPeats claim Vol 60% and many do not have AAC support so will be SBC as aptX is little more hungry.

I know they want to make it look as good as possible but I find even at lower volume (overnight sleeping) I get nowhere near the claims and even the case cannot charge the buds X times as claimed, it is always short by at least 1/2 charge.


----------



## C_Lindbergh

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Shouldn't have been a surprise to anybody that LDAC would result in a pretty significant battery hit. 5 hours with ANC/LDAC on, though, is pretty impressive. Wouldn't scoff at that.
> 
> You'll find that's pretty standard for a lot of companies. Their battery estimates will be performed with really weird criteria, like:
> 
> ...


This is just the most extreme case I've seen. Sure most companies doesn't promote the battery life as 100% accurate in real life use.


----------



## Dregur

helmutcheese said:


> Ah so promote their LDAC but battery claims are using AAC.


Something that I caught, on first connection the headphones default to "Priority on Stable Connection", which is AAC. If you switch to "Priority on Sound Quality", it switches to LDAC.


----------



## Thesonofkrypton

Will mostly listen to the XM4 via iPhone but look forward to trying them out with the Kann Alpha dap which supports LDAC so can give a real world test of battery life with ldac.


----------



## DigDub

Does the xm4 allow single bud usage with either of the buds? If you turn off the ANC, put it in the case and take them out, does ANC turn on by default, or it remembers its last state and remains off? These are deal breakers for me. Thanks.


----------



## bladefd

Dregur said:


> Something that I caught, on first connection the headphones default to "Priority on Stable Connection", which is AAC. If you switch to "Priority on Sound Quality", it switches to LDAC.


I believe the balanced option uses LDAC too at like 660kbps. Read in one of the reviews. I don't know what the difference is in sq - I never used LDAC.


----------



## helmutcheese (Jun 9, 2021)

Well if you listening to non HD it will be fine, even go lower down to the 330k setting if your music is CD quality MP3/Flac instead of hammering battery for it to be upscaled via the Sony App to 660/990.


----------



## Luke Skywalker

Darkestred said:


> monster...indeed...recruiters...sweating...can't miss a beat when i upload my resume.  haha.  sorry.
> 
> Shame so far on the sony's.  Still dont need another pair of TWS, yet i want one.


Totally random but I’ve had good success job searching on Dice in addition to Indeed. I started using Salesforce on my iPhone to track leads, interviews, etc


----------



## SpeedyClaxton4

Dregur said:


> So I have the XM4's and I've listen them for about 20 minutes to make some first impressions:
> 
> First thing, YMMV, but they fit MUCH better than the XM3's. They are not the most comfortable TWS I've ever wore (Damn you MT. Damn you all to hell), but they are more secure and I can get a better seal with the foam tips more consistently. For my admittedly large ear holes, they sit flatter than the XM3, and I would say they actually are in my ear a tiny bit shallower than the XM3. However, they are still rather large, they're no Galaxy Buds Pro.
> 
> ...


Another tip, since I couldn't get mine to connect even after making sure the app was updated. I had a VPN/Adblock connected. Had to whitelist the Sony Headphones app.


----------



## Luke Skywalker

Caipirina said:


> I am starting to get a bit worried about the fit of the XM4 … this German dude had them for a week, and this is the best fit he found?


His face looks weird too. heehee


----------



## PixelSquish

Mine should be here within the next couple hours. Gonna put them on and mess about, tweak my LDAC settings in developer options as well, and take them on a nice long dog walk too. I only have the MTW2 to compare them to, although I've had and tried the MT, the higher end Technics and the higher end JBL club pro plus.


----------



## FYLegend

helmutcheese said:


> Windows 10 now supports AAC if that matters to you.


thanks, do you know which version and software driver supports it?


----------



## helmutcheese (Jun 9, 2021)

I  am on DEV but AFAIK the new Win 10 May Update has it (I am not 100% sure) and you do not need any drivers/software to use it but you can see which codec is being used by running this:

https://www.bluetoothgoodies.com/tweaker/

The down side is now I am stuck on AAC instead of SBC or aptX for some of my devices as Windows does have have any way for me to choose/force it.

https://www.whathifi.com/news/windows-10-update-to-bring-aac-bluetooth-support


----------



## gLer

Hey guys, I've just posted the official Sony WF-1000XM4 impressions thread *here*. Please feel free to drop in and share your impressions. Don't stop talking about it here on my account, just thought an important release like this needs its own thread too.


----------



## Pro-Jules

Wow finally LDAC!

The Holy grail.for hi res fans. 

Let me know how it goes!


----------



## gocam

Luke Skywalker said:


> So tempting… I love the N6P; its only weakness is the lack of ANC.
> 
> Does the N10P sound better?  How’s the Noise Canceling?
> 
> I wish they had Aptx HD/LL and LDAC


The ANC is perfectly fine for regular low frequency noise reduction, traffic and such, am loving the sound, rich and full once you get a good fit, which the foam seems to yield. No fatigue issues which I get with many other sets, I love the N6p to this day, I like these more I do think both nuarl sets are so much more musical and less cold and mechanical sounding than alternatives, they are fun to listen to and engaging. They look a bit big in the photos but I don't really notice the heft when wearing, I'm not using the wings.

Given that it's prime, well worth giving them a try IMO to see what you reckon ? They are only set I'm using right now. Battery has been fine in my listening but I normally don't go for multi hour sessions.


----------



## Luke Skywalker

gocam said:


> The ANC is perfectly fine for regular low frequency noise reduction, traffic and such, am loving the sound, rich and full once you get a good fit, which the foam seems to yield. No fatigue issues which I get with many other sets, I love the N6p to this day, I like these more I do think both nuarl sets are so much more musical and less cold and mechanical sounding than alternatives, they are fun to listen to and engaging. They look a bit big in the photos but I don't really notice the heft when wearing, I'm not using the wings.
> 
> Given that it's prime, well worth giving them a try IMO to see what you reckon ? They are only set I'm using right now. Battery has been fine in my listening but I normally don't go for multi hour sessions.


Ha awesome. They’re arriving tomorrow   thanks for letting me know about them being on Amazon - I’ve wanted these for months!


----------



## cresny (Jun 9, 2021)

I was planning to hold out on the XM4s, but if the ANC can compete with over-ears and the battery life is even close to the claimed 8 hours with ANC, then these would be ideal for working from home, and the wait would not worth whatever ($50?) the price may go down. @clerkpalmer I'm especially interested to know what you think of the XM4s ANC vs the Devialet Gemini, as not many others have them.


----------



## dweaver

n00b said:


> starting to see some 1000xm4 reviews 👀 https://www.theverge.com/22523584/sony-wf-1000xm4-wireless-earbuds-headphones-review


The review confirmed the suspicion regarding battery life and LDAC, still 5 hours with LDAC is pretty darn good.


----------



## clerkpalmer

cresny said:


> I was planning to hold out on the XM4s, but if the ANC can compete with over-ears and the battery life is even close to the claimed 8 hours with ANC, then these would be ideal for working from home, and the wait would not worth whatever ($50?) the price may go down. @clerkpalmer I'm especially interested to know what you think of the XM4s ANC vs the Devialet Gemini, as not many others have them.


I’ll report back for sure. The ANC on the Gemini is surprisingly solid. Devialet sent me some new and improved tips as well which make them a really nice package. I actually decided I prefer the sound signature to the pI7 and they respond well to EQ.


----------



## BooleanBones

Caipirina said:


> I am starting to get a bit worried about the fit of the XM4 … this German dude had them for a week, and this is the best fit he found?


I am fairly confident that he is not using the correct size tips. I took a flyer on them and got them tonight. They sure don't fit like that on me.


----------



## Dregur

cresny said:


> I was planning to hold out on the XM4s, but if the ANC can compete with over-ears and the battery life is even close to the claimed 8 hours with ANC, then these would be ideal for working from home, and the wait would not worth whatever ($50?) the price may go down. @clerkpalmer I'm especially interested to know what you think of the XM4s ANC vs the Devialet Gemini, as not many others have them.


Do remember the 8 hours is only with AAC and ANC not LDAC. 5 hours with LDAC and ANC.


----------



## howdy

I was trying to be patient and watch for more reviews but Best Buy got another shipment coming in next week so I jumped in. Can't wait tell next Wednesday!!


----------



## erockg

clerkpalmer said:


> I’ll report back for sure. The ANC on the Gemini is surprisingly solid. Devialet sent me some new and improved tips as well which make them a really nice package. I actually decided I prefer the sound signature to the pI7 and they respond well to EQ.


What is the difference with the new tips for the Gemini?  I'd love to know if what I have are the new or old tips.  I repurchased mine from Crutchfield a few weeks ago.  Back to being in Heaven.


----------



## dweaver

Interesting in reading the translated Japanese impressions of the XM4 this sounded promising to me.

To summarize briefly, the impression is that the "WF-1000XM4" has evolved from the powerful and conspicuous sound "WF-1000XM3" to a monitor-like and pure audio-like, mature sound.


----------



## cresny

Dregur said:


> Do remember the 8 hours is only with AAC and ANC not LDAC. 5 hours with LDAC and ANC.


TBH I'm more interested in ANC workwise with a kid around. If it works as well as my B&W PX then that's probably enough for me besides all the other features. If it works well + 8 hours of that would be zero second thoughts.  Most people here have been waiting for LDAC, but for me the 8 hours ANC is the real big deal. I once was rescued from a miserable experience on the kid's scout trip by my wired Bose, having to bunk with the other dads. It turns out that the frequency of human snoring is entirely eliminated by modern ANC.


----------



## dj24 (Jun 9, 2021)

Luke Skywalker said:


> On a totally random note… the wife fell asleep last night while we were watching a movie on my Fire Stick. I happened to have my NUARL N6P’s within reach so I paired them and switched to Castlevania on Netflix… man they blow away the built in tv speakers.


I've been looking for a bluetooth adapter that will play 2 TWS sets at the same time for me and the missus for Prime and Netflix movies when everyone else is asleep.  I've asked numerous times here in this thread and have had no one respond with any feedback....  Any recommendations?


----------



## miserybeforethemusic (Jun 9, 2021)

dj24 said:


> I've been looking for a bluetooth adapter that will play 2 TWS sets at the same time for me and the missus for Prime and Netflix movies when everyone else is asleep.  I've asked numerous times here in this thread and have had no one respond with any feedback....  Any recommendations?


Bluetooth adapter or _transmitter_? There was a fairly popular brand that just got yanked from Amazon that made a decent transmitter, but I'll do some digging and see what I can find. What codecs?

How close is something like this?
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07TLHRPDP/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_glt_fabc_Q3V9YKH290DT5GT5255Z

Oh and new shameless plug for a ridiculous album that I started adding into the demo queue. Extremely dynamic content and remains plenty fun while doing so. If you're not into prog, you'll probably want to skip this one:


----------



## dweaver

I wonder if the XM4 battery life might be more in the 8hr range for LDAC if the ANC is disabled. Might be a good option for quiet environments. Any difference in sound from ANC to no ANC?


----------



## PixelSquish

dweaver said:


> I wonder if the XM4 battery life might be more in the 8hr range for LDAC if the ANC is disabled. Might be a good option for quiet environments. Any difference in sound from ANC to no ANC?



That's how I've been listening to them mostly. I don't need ANC as often as I need it. When I do need it I want it to be very good, but I'm gonna run LDAC with no ANC most of the time. I'll do a test at some point see how long it takes for them to lose 20% power with LDAC and no ANC listening to Tidal HiFi


----------



## bladefd (Jun 9, 2021)

dweaver said:


> I wonder if the XM4 battery life might be more in the 8hr range for LDAC if the ANC is disabled. Might be a good option for quiet environments. Any difference in sound from ANC to no ANC?


I wonder the same thing. When I had the xm3 for like 2 months, I rarely needed to turn on ANC in my home. I just used passive isolation, and it actually isolated pretty good (it lasted me a good 7-8hrs range as long as DSEE was kept off). In that situation with LDAC but disabled ANC, I would think the battery life would go up by couple hours at least.

I would be curious to see how much DSEE impacts battery life too in xm4. With xm3, DSEE on brought down battery life to like 3hrs or less.


----------



## cresny

erockg said:


> What is the difference with the new tips for the Gemini?  I'd love to know if what I have are the new or old tips.  I repurchased mine from Crutchfield a few weeks ago.  Back to being in Heaven.


If there's a silicon hash # pattern over the grill then you have the redesigned tips. For me the fit is noticeably better.


----------



## CocaCola15 (Jun 9, 2021)

Guess I’ll look for those Amazonwarehousedeals discounts, for all the buyers who decided they were not fans of the XM4. I do really like the WH1000-XM3. Did not like the WF1000-XM3 much. Did not care for the form factorz  And had volume issues.  Don’t find the full-size Sonys too dark, but I do tweak the treble.

I always liked Sony phones, owned the EX1000 and the EX300, back in the day. Wind issues ruined that design. Also have the MH755 around here someplace!
A bit off topic, but the Apple Spatial Audio (checked out 3 months free) not consistent, it could be the new 4-channel sound, if they can’t get it right. Some tracks sound great, but most sound meh.


----------



## clerkpalmer

cresny said:


> If there's a silicon hash # pattern over the grill then you have the redesigned tips. For me the fit is noticeably better.


Yes and agreed. Significantly improved.


----------



## Caipirina

BooleanBones said:


> I am fairly confident that he is not using the correct size tips. I took a flyer on them and got them tonight. They sure don't fit like that on me.


wow, how I wish I could 'take a flyer' ...  my best options right now is mid August maybe ... or someone imports and sells for double price 'first adopter fee'


----------



## chinmie

This also another review showing a gap between the earpiece and the inner ear:



if  we assume that the reviewer did wear it "right" for him, than for some people (depending how their ear canal goes) would ended up with that kind of fit, which is a bit floating.


----------



## DigDub

DigDub said:


> Does the xm4 allow single bud usage with either of the buds? If you turn off the ANC, put it in the case and take them out, does ANC turn on by default, or it remembers its last state and remains off? These are deal breakers for me. Thanks.


Can anyone who already has the xm4 let me know? The absence of these features are deal breakers for me. It's a toss up between the xm4 and the mw08. The mw08 has every features I want, just gotta audition it.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

chinmie said:


> This also another review showing a gap between the earpiece and the inner ear:
> 
> 
> if  we assume that the reviewer did wear it "right" for him, than for some people (depending how their ear canal goes) would ended up with that kind of fit, which is a bit floating.


I'd venture a guess that a lot of these folks don't think about proper fitment. They just want something they can shove into their earholes and go. Usually, it's an indicator that the tip they're using is too large.


----------



## Caipirina

miserybeforethemusic said:


> I'd venture a guess that a lot of these folks don't think about proper fitment. They just want something they can shove into their earholes and go. Usually, it's an indicator that the tip they're using is too large.


Took me quite a while to learn through ample practice how to properly fit any kind of IEM ... wife still does not get it and it makes it really tricky to find good eartips for her


----------



## Dregur

DigDub said:


> Can anyone who already has the xm4 let me know? The absence of these features are deal breakers for me. It's a toss up between the xm4 and the mw08. The mw08 has every features I want, just gotta audition it.


Only the right earbud can be independent. However the noise canceling state carries over as far as I can tell.


----------



## DigDub

Dregur said:


> Only the right earbud can be independent. However the noise canceling state carries over as far as I can tell.


Thanks for helping to check. The mw08 is a more enticing option for me now.


----------



## chinmie

miserybeforethemusic said:


> I'd venture a guess that a lot of these folks don't think about proper fitment. They just want something they can shove into their earholes and go. Usually, it's an indicator that the tip they're using is too large.



that is the other scenario, especially because it uses foam tips, which have more steps to use (squeezing it first before insertion) compared to silicone. 



Caipirina said:


> Took me quite a while to learn through ample practice how to properly fit any kind of IEM ... wife still does not get it and it makes it really tricky to find good eartips for her



i still have anxiety everytime i look at my wife using earphones... sometimes she would use it in a loose way that i fear that it would fall off


----------



## bladefd

Dregur said:


> Only the right earbud can be independent. However the noise canceling state carries over as far as I can tell.


Looks like right bud only as independent is the same as the xm3. 

I just can't remember if Sony made it so the xm3 didn't turn on ANC by default. I recall testing that, but I don't remember the specifics now


----------



## Thesonofkrypton

Spent the evening with the XM4, extremely happy with the purchase, no connection issues at all with iPhone. Sound is clearly a step up from XM3. Fit is excellent on me, almost as good as the Melomania touch (which I still rank as the best fitting tws out there). 

Things got interesting when I switched to LDAC on the Astell and kern kann alpha. I’m not kidding when I say this but it’s very much in the vein of the z1r I have too. Obviously not as polished and lacking the soundstage and impact of the bass but cut from the same cloth clearly. I will take that as a portable solution!

ANC is top notch, blocked out traffic noise and people talking outside apartment. 

Really dig the design and packaging, it looks small in all the photos and videos we have all seen but it is so dinky when you see it in person!

I can say hand on heart, this is the one for me for portable wireless use. No longer need to look around and waste money.


----------



## webvan

PixelSquish said:


> That's how I've been listening to them mostly. I don't need ANC as often as I need it. When I do need it I want it to be very good, but I'm gonna run LDAC with no ANC most of the time. I'll do a test at some point see how long it takes for them to lose 20% power with LDAC and no ANC listening to Tidal HiFi


Talking of turning off ANC, is ANC OFF in the button tapping cycle with ANC/Ambient ? I think I saw somewhere that the cycle was ANC/Ambient/Mute, but maybe that was wrong or it can be changed. On the Echo Buds it can't, but you can use the "Turn off noise reduction" Alexa command or do it in the app.


----------



## Dregur

webvan said:


> Talking of turning off ANC, is ANC OFF in the button tapping cycle with ANC/Ambient ? I think I saw somewhere that the cycle was ANC/Ambient/Mute, but maybe that was wrong or it can be changed. On the Echo Buds it can't, but you can use the "Turn off noise reduction" Alexa command or do it in the app.


You have to manually turn off ANC in the app, the button only does ANC/Ambient. But I triple checked, if you have it turned off when putting it back in the case, and then take the buds back out the ANC remains turned off. I do not know if you don't have the app or connect to a PC though.


----------



## Dregur

Dregur said:


> You have to manually turn off ANC in the app, the button only does ANC/Ambient. But I triple checked, if you have it turned off when putting it back in the case, and then take the buds back out the ANC remains turned off. I do not know if you don't have the app or connect to a PC though.


Well, I'm an idiot. Right after I posted this, I looked down and noticed there's an option for "[Ambient Sound Control] Operation Setting" that allows you to add in the ANC Off option.


----------



## Slowhand

DigDub said:


> Can anyone who already has the xm4 let me know? The absence of these features are deal breakers for me. It's a toss up between the xm4 and the mw08. The mw08 has every features I want, just gotta audition it.





According to this video, they work independently. Timestamped for you convenience.


----------



## Dregur

Slowhand said:


> According to this video, they work independently. Timestamped for you convenience.



I've tried several times, now, and every single time I've put the right one back in the case, the connection is broken, and I cannot reconnect unless the right one is out.


----------



## DigDub

Slowhand said:


> According to this video, they work independently. Timestamped for you convenience.



Thanks. I shall wait for more people to confirm. Not sure if the model of the phone affects this function.


----------



## DigDub

I just got the M&D mw08. I can understand why some say these are a muddy bass mess while some reviewers say these are the best tws earbuds that exists. The fit is very important. If they are jammed too tight in the ears, they give off very boomy and undefined bass. The stock tips are also quite thick, which adds to the boomy bass. I put on some some spinfit cp100 tips and the sound is very clear and balanced now. Breath taking sound quality.


----------



## BooleanBones

Thesonofkrypton said:


> Spent the evening with the XM4, extremely happy with the purchase, no connection issues at all with iPhone. Sound is clearly a step up from XM3. Fit is excellent on me, almost as good as the Melomania touch (which I still rank as the best fitting tws out there).
> 
> Things got interesting when I switched to LDAC on the Astell and kern kann alpha. I’m not kidding when I say this but it’s very much in the vein of the z1r I have too. Obviously not as polished and lacking the soundstage and impact of the bass but cut from the same cloth clearly. I will take that as a portable solution!
> 
> ...


I like mine as well. Bought with the expectation of sending back, but they have done a really good job with these in a whole. Couple additional things I like outside of the sound is the footprint of the case and the fact is has wireless charging and the lid "hitch" that keeps it open when taking the buds out or putting in. I hate when the lids flop open and close while trying to use the cases. I am probably one of the few here who don't like foam tips generally, so I am not a huge fan of the tips on them, but I can work with that. Lot of features and controls in the app too, which is pretty nice.


----------



## dweaver (Jun 10, 2021)

When I end up pulling the trigger on the XM4 (note I didn't say if... ) I will happily swap to the Sony Hybrid tips if the foams bug me . The reviews do look promising, but aside from winning the lottery, at $399CAD I will be waiting for these to go on sale... Or maybe pick up an open box at a discount at some point...


----------



## SpeedyClaxton4 (Jun 10, 2021)

chinmie said:


> This also another review showing a gap between the earpiece and the inner ear:
> 
> 
> if  we assume that the reviewer did wear it "right" for him, than for some people (depending how their ear canal goes) would ended up with that kind of fit, which is a bit floating.


Honestly I kinda wish mine fit like that, then maybe they wouldn't hurt my ears. It's the upper part of the housing pressing on the outer parts of my ear that hurt. We shall see if my ears acclimate. I've had IEMs that hurt initially only to end up being very comfy.


----------



## mainguy

DigDub said:


> I just got the M&D mw08. I can understand why some say these are a muddy bass mess while some reviewers say these are the best tws earbuds that exists. The fit is very important. If they are jammed too tight in the ears, they give off very boomy and undefined bass. The stock tips are also quite thick, which adds to the boomy bass. I put on some some spinfit cp100 tips and the sound is very clear and balanced now. Breath taking sound quality.


M&D make a mean pair of tws that's for sure. Wish they were the same caliber for over ears.

Also their design is cool


----------



## Dregur

SpeedyClaxton4 said:


> Honestly I kinda wish mine fit like that, then maybe they wouldn't hurt my ears. It's the upper part of the housing pressing on the outer parts of my ear that hurt. We shall see if my ears acclimate. I've had IEMs that hurt initially only to end up being very comfy.


I think it's similar to the Galaxy Buds Pro fit. Actually put it in vertically, and rotate about 45 degrees-ish until it locks in, so the tip is much more shallow than expected.


----------



## Dregur

So thankfully, the earbud hole for the XM4's case is large enough to support other eartips. I'm testing some Sedna Xelastec. Immediately noticed I'm able to get an easier seal just due to the stickiness of the Sedna tips.


----------



## helmutcheese (Jun 10, 2021)

Good to know as SpinFits are too thin so no good for passive NC but good seal and sound.

I have Sendna also, Standard (black) Comfort (white) and Xelastec and the same again for all 3 in the short TWS versions so 6 variants.

I need at least 14mm in eartips so many L do not fit, some so called rare XL's also do not fit but SoundPeats XP do as 14mm so did SoundCores largest size (the two tone red one).


----------



## PixelSquish

Dregur said:


> So thankfully, the earbud hole for the XM4's case is large enough to support other eartips. I'm testing some Sedna Xelastec. Immediately noticed I'm able to get an easier seal just due to the stickiness of the Sedna tips.


Yep. I tried my favorite silicone tips that struggled to go  in some other cases and they fit fine. I'll have to update my impressions as they do change the sound.


----------



## webvan

Hum, so the hunt for tips that work has started... is it going to be another fail from Sony when it comes to tips/fit/comfort ?! Why can't they ship tips that work ?! In my experience it's rare that third party tips work better than the original ones even if they can feel/sound better at first.


----------



## PixelSquish

Dregur said:


> Well, I'm an idiot. Right after I posted this, I looked down and noticed there's an option for "[Ambient Sound Control] Operation Setting" that allows you to add in the ANC Off option.


It took me a few to discover this too. I was like this is crazy, I either have to have ANC on or ambient mode on but not neither? The off setting should be on by default 🤷 

I do like the voice prompt the earbuds give you as you change the mode. It's perfect.


----------



## Dregur

webvan said:


> Hum, so the hunt for tips that work has started... is it going to be another fail from Sony when it comes to tips/fit/comfort ?! Why can't they ship tips that work ?! In my experience it's rare that third party tips work better than the original ones even if they can feel/sound better at first.


The foam tips are just fine, honestly. The Sedna tips I have didn't really change the sound for me. Like helmutcheese, my earholes are larger than most people's, and so having larger tips would work better for us anyway.


----------



## chinmie

webvan said:


> Hum, so the hunt for tips that work has started... is it going to be another fail from Sony when it comes to tips/fit/comfort ?! Why can't they ship tips that work ?! In my experience it's rare that third party tips work better than the original ones even if they can feel/sound better at first.



i have a rather different experience, almost all of my TWS and IEMs, i rarely settled with the stock tips and mostly ended up using third party ones, be it because of better fit, better sound, or combination of both.


----------



## TK33

chinmie said:


> i have a rather different experience, almost all of my TWS and IEMs, i rarely settled with the stock tips and mostly ended up using third party ones, be it because of better fit, better sound, or combination of both.


Same.  I use third party tips on almost all my TWS as well.  The only ones I use stock tips on are the JBL Reflect Flow (couldn't get a good seal for some reason and all the bass got sucked out).  Usually use Spinfits CP100z or Final Audio Type E on TWS and Spinfit CP800s on my Shure IEMs.


----------



## SpeedyClaxton4

Dregur said:


> I think it's similar to the Galaxy Buds Pro fit. Actually put it in vertically, and rotate about 45 degrees-ish until it locks in, so the tip is much more shallow than expected.


I definitely think they're designed to fit shallower than I'm used to, but I can't go any shallower and get a seal, already using the large tips. They are clearly banking on the foam tips holding them in place.

The only wireless buds I own are the original Galaxy Buds which fit very snugly and I barely notice in my ears. I may pick up the Galaxy Buds Pro to compare before deciding what to keep, but people seem to have fit issues with those as well.


----------



## helmutcheese

I want that top part to touch my ear not hang out top heavy like that photo here, and ideally a rubber jacket and wings to help hold and some extra passive NC seal.


----------



## dj24

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Bluetooth adapter or _transmitter_? There was a fairly popular brand that just got yanked from Amazon that made a decent transmitter, but I'll do some digging and see what I can find. What codecs?
> 
> How close is something like this?
> https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07TLHRPDP/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_glt_fabc_Q3V9YKH290DT5GT5255Z
> ...



Thanks!  You are right.  To play sound from a firestick hooked up to an HDTV, I will require a bluetooth transmitter and not an adapter.  Not too concerned about codecs and as long as there is no delay or lip synch and can make out dialogue, I'll be more than satisfied.


----------



## helmutcheese (Jun 10, 2021)

Well LDAC has most lag, you want aptX-LL (depends on distance) as you may get no lag with any codec (Nvidia Shield does LDAC/SBC) so no aptX for me (the 2019 version may do so though).


----------



## miserybeforethemusic (Jun 10, 2021)

dj24 said:


> Thanks!  You are right.  To play sound from a firestick hooked up to an HDTV, I will require a bluetooth transmitter and not an adapter.  Not too concerned about codecs and as long as there is no delay or lip synch and can make out dialogue, I'll be more than satisfied.


The one I linked should work perfect, then. Price is decent. They have variants if you need support from different codecs. Looks like this one's aptX only (but includes LL)


----------



## PixelSquish

TK33 said:


> Same.  I use third party tips on almost all my TWS as well.  The only ones I use stock tips on are the JBL Reflect Flow (couldn't get a good seal for some reason and all the bass got sucked out).  Usually use Spinfits CP100z or Final Audio Type E on TWS and Spinfit CP800s on my Shure IEMs.


Agreed. On both my wired and wireless IEM's I always use third party tips. Multiple pairs of Dunu wired IEMs. Both pairs of my Meze IEM's when I had the Pentas and now my Solos. My MTW2 I use third party tips.

I switched the Sony XM4 stock medium tips for the same tips I used on my Pentas and on my MTW2 last night and used them this morning, definitely less bass. I put the stock Sony XM4 medium tips back on and like the sound better. Just went for a long walk with the dog and the sound was really good. Maybe I'm getting brain burn in but I am more impressed with the sound today of the XM4 than last night, not like it was bad last night.


----------



## FYLegend

helmutcheese said:


> Yes I know but many claim Vol 50% and SoundPeats claim Vol 60% and many do not have AAC support so will be SBC as aptX is little more hungry.
> 
> I know they want to make it look as good as possible but I find even at lower volume (overnight sleeping) I get nowhere near the claims and even the case cannot charge the buds X times as claimed, it is always short by at least 1/2 charge.


Yeah, the issue with short case battery life irritates me above how the earbuds themselves last.  By using ANC and high volumes, I end up discharging the case much faster, yet the earbuds themselves often still show something like 80-90% after 3 hours of use. Galaxy Buds+, 1More ANC, TaoTronics 94  and SoundPeats T2 all have similar issues even if the buds themselves can last a long time (in the case of the Buds+ and T2). On the SoundPeats T2 with SBC and ANC on at 70% volume I got about 6 hours. Only the Earfun Free Pro has really impressed me with its case longevity (3-5 days with my usage).

I'm curious how long the XM4 case lasts with LDAC, and whether you can shut the case to power off the earbuds afterwards (this usually requires proximity sensors or for the case to retain some battery life as on Earfun Free Pro).



helmutcheese said:


> I  am on DEV but AFAIK the new Win 10 May Update has it (I am not 100% sure) and you do not need any drivers/software to use it but you can see which codec is being used by running this:
> 
> https://www.bluetoothgoodies.com/tweaker/
> 
> ...


Yeah I just got the May update and it doesn't have it. Seems like it's coming in the Sun Valley update but is currently only in Dev Channel. I tried installing the preview but it kept getting stuck. Also read some comments from testers of static popping and dropouts with AAC, though this may be down to other factors.


----------



## PixelSquish

You are able to use just the Left earbud with the Right earbud in the case with the XM4 if you turn off Google Assistant in the app.


----------



## helmutcheese

What am to going to need sacrifice to get Vol on left?


----------



## dweaver

In regard to the XM4

The whole independent bud thing is not something I ever use so not a big deal for me but glad there is a way to use it for those that want that feature.

I have got comfortable giving up the features on the left bud of my XM3 so I have volume control. On the XM4 I might try using the voice commend "hey Google turn up the volume" to keep the default left functions available.


----------



## helmutcheese

They could do all functions via 2 controls same as many others do (even mid range), no real excuse.


----------



## PixelSquish

helmutcheese said:


> What am to going to need sacrifice to get Vol on left?


You either sacrifice playback controls or you sacrifice toggling through ANC, Ambient or neither modes.

They really should have copied Sennheiser's implementation of the touch controls. It is the best out there, except not having better voice prompts to tell you what mode you are in. But as far as touch customization, Senn is tops.

I just keep the XM4 at top volume and adjust the volume from my phone. I need playback controls and the ANC/Ambient control far more than anything else.


----------



## helmutcheese

Can I still keep ANC on/off (I do not need AMB)?


----------



## PixelSquish

helmutcheese said:


> Can I still keep ANC on/off (I do not need AMB)?



You could not control it from the buds if you want volume control on one side and playback control on the other. But you can control ANC, you would just have to launch the Sony Headphones Connect App and turn ANC on or off there.


----------



## helmutcheese

Bummer, cant swap Assist for ANC?


----------



## mainguy (Jun 10, 2021)

Slowhand said:


> According to this video, they work independently. Timestamped for you convenience.



Best tws reviewer imo

For those interested at the end he does a SQ ranking
PI7
Momentum 2
MW08
Sony XM4

The reason I like and trust this guy so much is that he clearly keeps every tws iem and uses them all regularly. So many reviews out there don't I'm certain of it, instead they test the product mostly in a vacuum. Interesting to see him put the mw08 above the xm4 though, wasn't expecting that.


----------



## PixelSquish

helmutcheese said:


> Bummer, cant swap Assist for ANC?


Nope. Not yet at least. Sony would have to send out an update. They dropped the ball a bit on the customization.

The sensitivity and size of the touch controls are great though.


----------



## Luke Skywalker

Hmm... Unfortunately, I am unimpressed with the Nuarl N10 Pro.  After listening to numerous tracks of different genres and trying different tips, the N6P actually sounds better.  I even used the exact same tips - Acoustune - and for some reason they didn't fit as well.  

They are completely blown away by my KEF mu3's

Returned to Amazon...


----------



## Dregur

PixelSquish said:


> Nope. Not yet at least. Sony would have to send out an update. They dropped the ball a bit on the customization.
> 
> The sensitivity and size of the touch controls are great though.


The touch controls actually have some audible feedback per touch, which makes things like double tapping very easy to do.


----------



## jant71

Even though most are still in the honeymoon with the new ANC model from Sony there is this for those who go in the other direction for an open design...

  " Ambie will release the completely wireless earphone "TW-01" after the end of August as a new model of "earphones that do not block the ears" "ambie sound earcuffs". The price is 15,000 yen (tax included). Advance reservations will be accepted from June 10th today.        






"TW-01" (black)




"TW-01" (white)



By wearing it like an ear cuff, ambie develops earphones that allow you to "listen while listening" without blocking your ears. The completely wireless earphones also adopted an ear cuff type design.        

The mass is about 4.2g per ear. Bluetooth supports 5.2, codecs support SBC and AAC, and additional support for other codecs is planned. Equipped with a MEMS microphone, it can also be used for online meetings. Continuous playback time is about 6 hours. The main body has IPX5 waterproof performance and can be used for sports.        

In addition to the lineup of black and white colors, season colors and limited models will also be released. As the first limited edition color, "Cloud Gray" will be available for pre-order from noon on July 1, 2021. In addition, optional parts that can be changed in color according to the coordination of the day are scheduled to be released in the fall."

Hopefully at the price the other codecs planned will add at least aptX. For those unfamiliar...
https://www.ambiesound.com/


----------



## jant71

zeinharis said:


> No love for Aviots?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Seems they are just coming out with the ANC version, the TE-D01t...
https://aviot.jp/press/post-210610




Pretty handsome looking.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic (Jun 10, 2021)

Huh... Must have missed this WH2 review from @twister6 that went up a couple days ago. Gotta give credit where credit's due:

https://twister6.com/2021/06/08/hiby-wh2-tws/

Here's the most important section as far as I'm concerned:


> WH2 vs WH3 – the soundstage expansion of WH2 is more holographic in comparison to more intimate sound of WH3.  WH3 soundstage width is above average, not as wide as WH2.  When it comes to the sound, WH3 is smoother, more organic, and also more balanced, reminding me more of Airpods Pro.  In comparison, WH2 has a more fun mildly u-shaped tuning, still closer to balanced, with a deeper and more articulate bass and crisper airy treble. WH2 mids/vocals are less colored, with a good layering and separation.  In terms of technical performance, I also hear a better retrieval of details in WH2.


I'm interested.


----------



## jant71

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Huh... Must have missed this WH2 review from @twister6 that went up a couple days ago. Gotta give credit where credit's due:
> 
> https://twister6.com/2021/06/08/hiby-wh2-tws/


Nice find! Hopefully they could add volume control. They have a good shape for fit though not the most attractive. Did you enter the Facebook giveaway?


----------



## twister6

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Huh... Must have missed this WH2 review from @twister6 that went up a couple days ago. Gotta give credit where credit's due:
> 
> https://twister6.com/2021/06/08/hiby-wh2-tws/



Thanks! Though xm4 is around the corner, WH2 are still the first with LDAC support and a quality tuning, I use them daily now. And among other comparisons, I have one vs airpods pro in my review.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

jant71 said:


> Nice find! Hopefully they could add volume control. They have a good shape for fit though not the most attractive. Did you enter the Facebook giveaway?


I'm off all the socials, so no. Waiting for the campaign to start and I'll just join the queue like everybody else.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

twister6 said:


> Thanks! Though xm4 is around the corner, WH2 are still the first with LDAC support and a quality tuning, I use them daily now. And among other comparisons, I have one vs airpods pro in my review.


No problem! Been reading your reviews for quite a while. Did you get a choice between the 1DD/2BA models?


----------



## twister6

miserybeforethemusic said:


> I'm off all the socials, so no. Waiting for the campaign to start and I'll just join the queue like everybody else.


And just to add, though I was only allowed to share their msrp price, I was told that early bird KS going to have a huge discount. And no, unfortunately they didn't have 2BA model ready yet in time for review. I'm curios to try the digital crossover which is only available on 2BA, not DD, and similar to WH3 implementation.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

twister6 said:


> And just to add, though I was only allowed to share their msrp price, I was told that early bird KS going to have a huge discount. And no, unfortunately they didn't have 2BA model ready yet in time for review. I'm curios to try the digital crossover which is only available on 2BA, not DD, and similar to WH3 implementation.


I feel like that's a must-have after having gotten used to it on the WH3. I know you found the 1025 work on the WH2, but I'd also suggest taking a look at the Azla Crystal. Really like what they did for the WH3.


----------



## twister6 (Jun 10, 2021)

miserybeforethemusic said:


> I feel like that's a must-have after having gotten used to it on the WH3. I know you found the 1025 work on the WH2, but I'd also suggest taking a look at the Azla Crystal. Really like what they did for the WH3.


Thanks for the tip, no pun intended  Love Azla tips, but never heard of that one. Will check it out!


----------



## gocam

Luke Skywalker said:


> Hmm... Unfortunately, I am unimpressed with the Nuarl N10 Pro.  After listening to numerous tracks of different genres and trying different tips, the N6P actually sounds better.  I even used the exact same tips - Acoustune - and for some reason they didn't fit as well.
> 
> They are completely blown away by my KEF mu3's
> 
> Returned to Amazon...


Ack, that's unfortunate to hear - I just tried my 6Ps again, still love the sound but I definitely prefer the 10's - they are both pretty wonderful though. Out of curiosity, what are you driving them with ? Android or iPhone ( I'm using the former + AptX )


----------



## helmutcheese (Jun 12, 2021)

*Update:*


----------



## 544592

Just as a side note as there doesn't appear to me to be a thread on the Jabra Elite Active 75t- I just received my new set after returning my old ones about 6 months ago and they are "Version C (ANC)" as written on the box, ANC is listed as a capability and obviously the newest firmware is installed. 

The biggest thing for me though is that I think they've changed the tuning somewhat! They used to sound a bit unnatural to me to such extent i tried EQ'ing them for days with no success. Some people also reported a LOT of bass, however, they are fantastic out of the box! Definitely an improvement over the previous version to my ears.

It would be interesting to see if Crinicle can get the new version and do an FR measurement on them as I see he's graphed the older version.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

Gm7dha said:


> Just as a side note as there doesn't appear to me to be a thread on the Jabra Elite Active 75t- I just received my new set after returning my old ones about 6 months ago and they are "Version C (ANC)" as written on the box, ANC is listed as a capability and obviously the newest firmware is installed.
> 
> The biggest thing for me though is that I think they've changed the tuning somewhat! They used to sound a bit unnatural to me to such extent i tried EQ'ing them for days with no success. Some people also reported a LOT of bass, however, they are fantastic out of the box! Definitely an improvement over the previous version to my ears.
> 
> It would be interesting to see if Crinicle can get the new version and do an FR measurement on them as I see he's graphed the older version.


Yep. No dedicated thread, though I've been an acolyte for the EA75t (as it's abbreviated here) for a while now.

I don't really think the EA75t responds that well to EQ, but it does respond very well to different ear tips. I've had the best luck overall with either Final Audio's TWS tips or Azla's Crystal tips. Both are on the spendier side, but they are case-compatible and do a decent enough job taming that heaping amount of bass energy. I think a lot of it is tip-dependent and that can be fixed somewhat just through different tip selection. The MySound feature can help with that a little, so don't hesitate to give that a shot as well.


----------



## 544592

Yeah, no I'm really liking the tuning from these now straight out of the box with their own tips. No change is required for me at the moment. I'll take a note of your suggested tips and perhaps give them a try at some point. 👍


----------



## webvan (Jun 11, 2021)

helmutcheese said:


>



So ANC better on the Bose ? ok...but what's incredible is that this guy doesn't seem to have a clue about PASSIVE isolation that would have to be a LOT better on the XM4s based on their design so it would make sense for them to have less of a "wow" factor than the Bose or the APPs and their semi-open designs when ANC is turned on.

Hopefully someone will do a "hear what's it like test" with a dummy head to try to show how effective ANC is, few reviewers do that though, "Jim's Review Room" used to do that and EBPMan does too but the sound he gets is generally not great so it's probably a cheap setup.

BTW, are the tips in fact similar to the "foam" version that came with the XM3s ? That would be good news for their durability vs Comply type tips but not so much in terms of "grippinness"


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

Looks like Earfun's back at it again, this time with the Free 2:





https://www.headphonesty.com/2021/06/review-earfun-free-2/

Doesn't look like much of a sonic shift from the Earfun Free Pro, so I'd venture to guess there's going to be a hefty amount of midbass bloom on the EF2 as well. I do like that the edges of the new buds are rounded, though. This may fit very similar to the JBL Club Pro+ or Jabra EA75t.


----------



## yeeyy

Hi, I have a pair of Nuarl N6 Pro and I love it’s sound quality. What will you recommend for better sound quality ( yes, only focus on sound quality)? I am using iPhone 12 Pro Max.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

yeeyy said:


> Hi, I have a pair of Nuarl N6 Pro and I love it’s sound quality. What will you recommend for better sound quality ( yes, only focus on sound quality)? I am using iPhone 12 Pro Max.


Have to ask a few questions first:

What content will you be consuming (genres of music, apps used, VoIP calls, etc)?
What about the N6 Pro do you wish you could improve?
What features are absolute must-haves? Nice-to-haves? Don't-wants?
How much are you willing to spend?
If you priority is sound quality over everything else, my suggestion is to just grab a set of TWS-IEM adapters (like the iBasso CF01 or Fiio UTWS3) and call it a day. You're going to get a consistently better experience in terms of SQ that way. That being said, if you still want this to be TWS-specific, help me out with the four questions I put up and I'll try to steer you in the right direction.


----------



## dj24

Gm7dha said:


> Yeah, no I'm really liking the tuning from these now straight out of the box with their own tips. No change is required for me at the moment. I'll take a note of your suggested tips and perhaps give them a try at some point. 👍


If they're reissuing these, I wonder if this means they'll pass on the 85T Active's this year.


miserybeforethemusic said:


> Looks like Earfun's back at it again, this time with the Free 2:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Bart just put out a review and he seems to like them..


----------



## helmutcheese

3040 and only 7 hours?

Suppose it is better than other brands who claim 10-12 and even Sonics BS 15 hours claim on same Chipset.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

dj24 said:


> If they're reissuing these, I wonder if this means they'll pass on the 85T Active's this year.
> 
> Bart just put out a review and he seems to like them..


No word on either front so far. 85t Actives could be pretty sweet if done well.

And weekly maintenance calls. Tired enough that I confused this with my morning coffee at least once already:


Just a little Dawn soap and hot water. We used to call this "hot soapy" and is the universal cleaner onboard submarines.

Might seem like a lot of work, but it's still less compared to an ear infection.


----------



## 544592

dj24 said:


> If they're reissuing these, I wonder if this means they'll pass on the 85T Active's this year.


Not sure. The reissue could just be to highlight on the box that they have ANC and come with the latest firmware. From my ears though there's been a welcomed change of tuning.

I didn't go with 85t's due to poorer IP rating as I use these mainly for running so it'll be interesting to see any Active's like you say.


----------



## helmutcheese

^^ Battery life put me off any Jabras.


----------



## dweaver

Regarding Flossy Carter reviews, he's funny and does give good impressions. I don't always agree with his sonic preferences but understand them well enough to know which products he reviews will work for me.

In the case of the XM4 I have a few reservations though. He appeared to be using the setting for stability versus sound quality when testing, this would not allow the XM4 to be at its best sonically speaking so may have affecting his musical ranking and account for why he thought the sound quality was very similar to the XM3.


----------



## 544592

helmutcheese said:


> ^^ Battery life put me off any Jabras.


As long as they last 2 or 3 hours it wouldn't affect me, though, these last about 5-7hrs on avg. 

No matter what IEM I rarely have them in my ears longer than an hour with a wee 15-20min break in between.


----------



## helmutcheese

I am  all day if outside (I pause/power them down) and do no carry the case so today to not have at least 8 hours (non ANC) when Creative had 12-14 hours (claimed) years ago is not great IMO.

My neckbands are 24 hour and 35hours.


----------



## bladefd

helmutcheese said:


> I am  all day if outside (I pause/power them down) and do no carry the case so today to not have at least 8 hours (non ANC) when Creative had 12-14 hours (claimed) years ago is not great IMO.
> 
> My neckbands are 24 hour and 35hours.


Random question but which neckbands do you use?


----------



## helmutcheese (Jun 11, 2021)

1) SoundPeats Force HD (newer rev) so Dual Driver (2 cones) +35 hours but left wire broke last week so no sound but it has been well used for 2 years daily even at times sleeping.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07YFY8TGX/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s01?ie=UTF8&psc=1  (the newer comments as above is a newer revision).

 2) Fiio LC-BT2 (for LDAC).


----------



## PeteSTRADAMUS

How loud does the Sony mx4 get?


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

helmutcheese said:


> I am  all day if outside (I pause/power them down) and do no carry the case so today to not have at least 8 hours (non ANC) when Creative had 12-14 hours (claimed) years ago is not great IMO.
> 
> My neckbands are 24 hour and 35hours.


I don't know if you're being very fair in this regard. These are tiny batteries that are handling a continuous BT signal and (usually) high-bitrate codecs on top of amplification and DAC duties. Add in real-time DSP (EQ, ANC, HearThrough, notifications, voice control, etc) and it all adds up. Neckbands have a significant advantage in the amount of space it can use, but I think asking for 8 hours of battery life as a standard is a pretty hard ask.


----------



## helmutcheese (Jun 11, 2021)

I am not stupid I get that they cannot have 35 hours but again did you read the part where I used example, of Creative had 12-14 hours years ago (even with SxFi Chip) and battery tech have came on since then same with Chipsets and BT versions.

There is just no way today I will buy a set with less than 8 hour non ANC no matter how good they sound or features. and as I said in the past I can live without as TWS none are that great overall (was discussed here weeks ago), I would love another neckband (also was discussed here) but hey there are not the "in thing" now.


----------



## helmutcheese (Jun 11, 2021)

PeteSTRADAMUS said:


> How loud does the Sony mx4 get?


One of reviewers (posted in this thread) said they are not the loudest but are loud enough, hopefully they have enough head room so normally listing would be 70-80% and 100% for short bursts in my fav songs  and quieter recorded albums which I have some of.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

helmutcheese said:


> I am not stupid I get that they cannot have 35 hours but again did you read the part where I used example, of Creative had 12-14 hours years ago (even with SxFi Chip) and battery tech have came on since then same with Chipsets and BT versions.
> 
> There is just no way today I will buy a set with less than 8 hour non ANC no matter how good they sound or features. and as I said in the past I can live without as TWS none are that great overall (was discussed here weeks ago), I would love another neckband (also was discussed here) but hey there are not the "in thing" now.


What codec were the Creative running? aptX and high-bitrate AAC aren't as efficient. Battery tech, despite what you think, has not evolved as much in this space.

You don't have to buy anything you don't want, but I'm telling you your expectations are unrealistic for TWS. Yes, there are some models that exceed your 8-hour benchmark. I happen to own a couple. They're prohibitively expensive for most consumers and have a swath of other issues that would keep me from recommending.

These things are not just battery+driver and I think that's what you're not taking into account. Just because it's been done before doesn't mean it can be reproduced (otherwise we'd be celebrating an Apollo 45 mission at this point).

And who cares what the "in thing" is, anyway? We're a fraction of a fraction of the consumer market. Nothing we do is the "in thing."


----------



## PeteSTRADAMUS

helmutcheese said:


> One of reviewers (posted in this thread) said they are not the loudest but are loud enough, hopefully they have enough head room so normally listing would be 70-80% and 100% for short bursts in my fav songs  and quieter recorded albums which I have some of.


I wish I could demo them somewhere. Hopefully best buy has them for demo. I'm kind of tired of my Beats pro in ears for the gym.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

PeteSTRADAMUS said:


> I wish I could demo them somewhere. Hopefully best buy has them for demo. I'm kind of tired of my Beats pro in ears for the gym.


Costco/Sam's? Could always just take advantage of the return policy if they're not your thing.

Nevermind...just saw your full location. Don't think they have those in Poland...


----------



## helmutcheese

miserybeforethemusic said:


> What codec were the Creative running? aptX and high-bitrate AAC aren't as efficient. Battery tech, despite what you think, has not evolved as much in this space.
> 
> You don't have to buy anything you don't want, but I'm telling you your expectations are unrealistic for TWS. Yes, there are some models that exceed your 8-hour benchmark. I happen to own a couple. They're prohibitively expensive for most consumers and have a swath of other issues that would keep me from recommending.
> 
> ...



Not sure why you have a bee in your bonnet or did I hit a nerve, I cannot be bothered to even read that but either way I am done with this pointless debate?


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

helmutcheese said:


> Not sure why you have a bee in your bonnet or did I hit a nerve, I cannot be bothered to even read that but either way I am done with this pointless debate?


I don't take too kindly to people who make blanket and inaccurate statements, so I chose to correct it. Consider it the privilege that comes from being part of a public forum. Ending a passive-aggressive statement in the form of a question doesn't suit you.

Consider the debate pointless if that makes you feel better. Your expectations are still unrealistic.


----------



## helmutcheese (Jun 11, 2021)

Look I do not want to listen to your BS anymore and my statements were my own not blanket so get of your high horse (set my 1st ever ignore here), not that is was big deal but he seemed to feel it was so....

P.S advise you watch reviews even they will say battery not the best when it is 5-7 hour today 9non ANC), that will keep you busy for a while messaging them to educate/correct them.


----------



## PeteSTRADAMUS

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Costco/Sam's? Could always just take advantage of the return policy if they're not your thing.
> 
> Nevermind...just saw your full location. Don't think they have those in Poland...


I'm in NJ. From Poland.


----------



## helmutcheese

Amazon.PL from 2rd March 2021?


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

helmutcheese said:


> Look I do not want to listen to your BS anymore and my statements were my own not blanket so get of your high horse (set my 1st ever ignore here), not that is was big deal but he seemed to feel it was so....


Good riddance.


PeteSTRADAMUS said:


> I'm in NJ. From Poland.


Awesome! Then it works out. Both Sam's Club and Costco have very flexible return policies. That or Best Buy (as you mentioned) would probably be the best way to "try" them out. Not that I condone this sort of practice on the regular, but if it becomes a make/break sort of deal, it's an option.


----------



## erockg (Jun 11, 2021)

The Sony XM4's are awesome.  For me, perfect fit with Spinfits and the ANC is spot on.  I do like the fit better than my Devialet Gemini.  Soundstage is wide.  Instrument separate is well done.  IMO better than the M4's which I really didn't like at all.  Fit was awful.  M4 bass is decent.  I EQ stuff.  Volume is loud enough for me, depends on when what you're listening to was mastered.  Old Heavy Metal tends to be mastered lower than say, the new Danny Elfman (which is surprisingly good!).  Charging case is soooo much smaller.  Wireless charging.  Fits in my pocket without too much bulk.  Been using them for two hours straight and I'm still on 90% battery life.  Alright, back to listening...


----------



## 544592

helmutcheese said:


> P.S advise you watch reviews even they will say battery not the best when it is 5-7 hour today 9non ANC), that will keep you busy for a while messaging them to educate/correct them.


This is my 2nd set and they can and do but I tend not to listen at high volume either so no need to listen to dodgy reviewers.

Anyway, doesn't matter, if you need 12+ hrs neckband is the way to go. That way you get the benefit of larger battery and smaller IEM's, if of course the band doesn't bother you.

We have too much choice these days 🤣


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

Gm7dha said:


> This is my 2nd set and they can and do but I tend not to listen at high volume either so no need to listen to dodgy reviewers.
> 
> Anyway, doesn't matter, if you need 12+ hrs neckband is the way to go. That way you get the benefit of larger battery and smaller IEM's, if of course the band doesn't bother you.
> 
> We have too much choice these days 🤣


I think there's an opportunity for someone to get some crazy battery life out of their TWS. Just solder directly from the TWS' battery to a pair of these on each shoulder. 20,000 mAh should be good for 8-10 hours, right?


----------



## 544592 (Jun 11, 2021)

Yeah, or maybe one of those baseball caps for beer, except instead of beer... Nah wait, that won't work 🤣


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

Gm7dha said:


> Yeah, or maybe one of those baseball caps for beer, except instead of beer... Nah wait, that won't work 🤣


Where would you put your beer?! There's room on top for the battery, anyway. Can't sacrifice the must-haves for the nice-to-haves.

Forgot to mention, as a general PSA: please don't keep _any_ TWS in all day, regardless of whether the battery would support it. That's potentially dangerous for the health of your ears and all the tiny bones inside. Take breaks and keep your ears clean. You only get one set. Considering I was born deaf and went through a lot to get my sense of hearing back, that's not something I take for granted. I hope you don't either.


----------



## Slowhand

erockg said:


> The Sony XM4's are awesome.


How would you compare SQ and sonic profile with the MW08's?


----------



## erockg

Slowhand said:


> How would you compare SQ and sonic profile with the MW08's?


I prefer them over the MW08. I thought the MW08 were muddy and I could never get a good fit. The ANC and  sound is much better on the M4s in my opinion.  That said, the build quality is better on the M&D earbuds.


----------



## webvan

Which Spinfits are you using?


----------



## erockg

webvan said:


> Which Spinfits are you using?


CP 360 and 100z both work great.  Size M.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

I may have to shuffle that top spot around. The NFP have been knocking it out of the park lately. Still get that artifacting when in aptX Adaptive (so running in aptX only), but the midrange on these things is so good for prog.





If it were just about sound, these probably have my top spot now, followed by the ADV, UE, and Technics...all for different moods. List isn't numerical, though.


----------



## Luke Skywalker

gocam said:


> Ack, that's unfortunate to hear - I just tried my 6Ps again, still love the sound but I definitely prefer the 10's - they are both pretty wonderful though. Out of curiosity, what are you driving them with ? Android or iPhone ( I'm using the former + AptX )


Hey I’m glad you like them. I tested them using iPhone 12 Pro Max AAC.  

When I tried the included foam tips, the sound was really quiet. Even with my favorite tips (the Acoustone’s), it didn’t get very loud and I’m not even really into loud music.


----------



## tfenton02

Luke Skywalker said:


> Hey I’m glad you like them. I tested them using iPhone 12 Pro Max AAC.
> 
> When I tried the included foam tips, the sound was really quiet. Even with my favorite tips (the Acoustone’s), it didn’t get very loud and I’m not even really into loud music.


I’ve been using NFP over past month or so, primarily for gym and cycling but am increasingly pulling these out around the house, they are that good. The Bluetooth is a little wonky at times, unpredictable.  But worth it IMHO


----------



## chinmie

erockg said:


> CP 360 and 100z both work great.  Size M.



so the XM4 can fit regular size eartips in the case?


----------



## erockg

chinmie said:


> so the XM4 can fit regular size eartips in the case?


Yes.  Plenty of space.


----------



## hifi80sman

erockg said:


> I prefer them over the MW08. I thought the MW08 were muddy and I could never get a good fit. The ANC and  sound is much better on the M4s in my opinion.  That said, the build quality is better on the M&D earbuds.


Thanks for the feedback on the MW08 (thought about picking those up as well).  I just picked up the XM4 and am trying to get a good fit.  The L tips seem to work the best, so long as a smash them down first.  Compared to the XM3, the build of the XM4s are definitely better and feel well built and solid.  The case is OK and it's put together well, but some matte metal would have been a nice touch at this price point.

Overall, I think the sound is better than the XM3, however, because I no longer have those, it's based on memory and general impressions.  It sounds as if the bass on the XM4 extends deeper and the sound is cleaner, at least gauging on what my "feelings" tell me.

The ANC is great.  I need to test out more against the Bose to see where they rank, but right now, it seems like the XM4 or Bose are the best in the game.


----------



## BooleanBones

After today, I can confirm that the XM4s do not sound as good on the receiving end of calls/conferencing as the other TWS I have (B&W and Air Pods Pro). Not a big deal to me as I will not be using them for that generally, but if that is important to anyone. They said it still sounded clear enough, just not as nice as the others.


----------



## xSDMx

BooleanBones said:


> After today, I can confirm that the XM4s do not sound as good on the receiving end of calls/conferencing as the other TWS I have (B&W and Air Pods Pro). Not a big deal to me as I will not be using them for that generally, but if that is important to anyone. They said it still sounded clear enough, just not as nice as the others.


Did you notice any issues with sibilance, ringing, or other artifacts at the end of speech? I'm running into this with calls, podcasts, audiobooks, any spoken word material and debating either returning or replacing them. If someone else is experiencing this as well, I might just return and refund and not try another set.


----------



## BooleanBones

xSDMx said:


> Did you notice any issues with sibilance, ringing, or other artifacts at the end of speech? I'm running into this with calls, podcasts, audiobooks, any spoken word material and debating either returning or replacing them. If someone else is experiencing this as well, I might just return and refund and not try another set.


I haven't up to this point. I have been trying to mix them in on conference calls the last couple days, but nothing yet. The folks on the other end of the calls did not even point out to me that I sounded different. I had to specifically ask and swap then ask again to get a side by side test case. I actually thought they sounded pretty good for calls along with the ANC. I do know that my co workers setup sometimes will cause echoes on our zoom calls, but nothing new to me now. At first I though it was me switching to my phone, but not the case. Good luck.


----------



## gocam

Luke Skywalker said:


> Hey I’m glad you like them. I tested them using iPhone 12 Pro Max AAC.
> 
> When I tried the included foam tips, the sound was really quiet. Even with my favorite tips (the Acoustone’s), it didn’t get very loud and I’m not even really into loud music.


Ah, I wonder if I'm getting lucky when the aptx performance? Also, there's a setting in the app you can download that let's you boost volume and also adjust the eq a bit, were you able to download and try? I had no problem at all with volume, using foam


----------



## tiagopinto

Luke Skywalker said:


> Ah nice I have quite a few local files too.  DSDs sound incredible.
> 
> right now I’m rolling with Tidal and Qobuz.  How does Amazon compare?
> 
> I came across an app or some kind of product a while back that synchronizes playlists and songs between services but I can’t remember where I saw it. I’m kind wasting storage on my DAP SD card because I have some of the same tracks stored offline.



Yep, someone here recommended this to me https://soundiiz.com/


----------



## gwompki

So I got the XM4 and to my ears, the sound profile is slightly improved over the XM3.  They also really benefit from tip rolling.  I ended on a pair of FIIO tips that came with my FH5 which I felt really enhanced the sound stage and instrument separation.

I went ahead and returned the XM3 yesterday, but curiosity got the better of me and I picked up the Bose QC buds as an exchange.  I have to say, to my ears and the type of music I listen to, the Bose are superior to both the XM3 and XM4 in terms of sound quality.  The XM4 while sounding better than the XM3 still has that boomy bass that bleeds into the mids.  I get that that is the Sony house sound and it DOES sound really good with a lot of music, I just don't think it is for me.  I know Bose is pretty universally trashed in the audio world which I totally understand and think some of that is justified historically.  However, ever since I heard Tyll singing the praises of the QC35 (which I also own as I got it as a gift) I have given them another chance.  The QC buds sound VERY similar to the QC 35 II.  Again, house sound, yada yada yada.  I'm sure some of it is my old man ears but that's probably the Bose target demo  .  They certainly aren't the be all/end all in terms of audio.  My HD-6XX / Bottlehead Crack or FIIO FH5/LG V30 are both superior combos, but the Bose do have a very pleasing sound to my ears with great noise cancelling, comfort and in-ear stability.  

All that said, the Bose are not nearly as nice in terms of features such as calling, the app experience, eq, etc. Plus they are quite big and look a little goofy.   It's still too early to say for certain as I have only had the XM4 for 2 days and the Bose less than a day, but I think I will be keeping the Bose and returning the XM4.  

I really want to hear the B&W PI7 but at $400 I'm having a hard time justifying the cost for what will likely become my gym buds.


----------



## Thesonofkrypton (Jun 12, 2021)

Went out for a run in the XM4 today connected to iPhone X and happy to report they stay secured in the ear, was an easy run at around 8’55 and they stayed perfectly glued to my ears.

Also I find that the rose gold accent now looks like you’re wearing earrings or something in your ears, perhaps it was because it was a particularly sunny day today so was catching the light lol

Also, would like to find out if Sony sell these new eartips. I find they’re different to the XM3 foam tips, in a good way, very comfy and more squishy than before but they pick up oil and sweat more so look more worn out but a quick wipe solves that but so far so good.

One other observation is although I like the matte finish on the buds and case, they do pick up finger smudges due to the finish.


----------



## SilverEars (Jun 12, 2021)

gwompki said:


> So I got the XM4 and to my ears, the sound profile is slightly improved over the XM3.  They also really benefit from tip rolling.  I ended on a pair of FIIO tips that came with my FH5 which I felt really enhanced the sound stage and instrument separation.
> 
> I went ahead and returned the XM3 yesterday, but curiosity got the better of me and I picked up the Bose QC buds as an exchange.  I have to say, to my ears and the type of music I listen to, the Bose are superior to both the XM3 and XM4 in terms of sound quality.  The XM4 while sounding better than the XM3 still has that boomy bass that bleeds into the mids.  I get that that is the Sony house sound and it DOES sound really good with a lot of music, I just don't think it is for me.  I know Bose is pretty universally trashed in the audio world which I totally understand and think some of that is justified historically.  However, ever since I heard Tyll singing the praises of the QC35 (which I also own as I got it as a gift) I have given them another chance.  The QC buds sound VERY similar to the QC 35 II.  Again, house sound, yada yada yada.  I'm sure some of it is my old man ears but that's probably the Bose target demo  .  They certainly aren't the be all/end all in terms of audio.  My HD-6XX / Bottlehead Crack or FIIO FH5/LG V30 are both superior combos, but the Bose do have a very pleasing sound to my ears with great noise cancelling, comfort and in-ear stability.
> 
> ...


Yeah, QCbuds is probably my fav TWS in terms of sound.  What impressed me was the  soundstage (huge!) and the bass.  I hated the bulk.  I don't like the fullsized QC series.  I can'f stand the treble quality. 

I found XM3 bass just poor quality.  Not the QCbuds, which was surprising for TWS.  Only other with good bass was Galaxy buds pro, but I had to use Moondrop Kanas Pro eartips to achieve that.  Stock tips sucked.  I hated the highs.  It had a harsh peak somewhere I couldn't stand.

What I want is ANC peerformance and size of APP (or galaxy buds) with the sound performance of QCbuds.


----------



## Thesonofkrypton (Jun 12, 2021)

gwompki said:


> So I got the XM4 and to my ears, the sound profile is slightly improved over the XM3.  They also really benefit from tip rolling.  I ended on a pair of FIIO tips that came with my FH5 which I felt really enhanced the sound stage and instrument separation.
> 
> I went ahead and returned the XM3 yesterday, but curiosity got the better of me and I picked up the Bose QC buds as an exchange.  I have to say, to my ears and the type of music I listen to, the Bose are superior to both the XM3 and XM4 in terms of sound quality.  The XM4 while sounding better than the XM3 still has that boomy bass that bleeds into the mids.  I get that that is the Sony house sound and it DOES sound really good with a lot of music, I just don't think it is for me.  I know Bose is pretty universally trashed in the audio world which I totally understand and think some of that is justified historically.  However, ever since I heard Tyll singing the praises of the QC35 (which I also own as I got it as a gift) I have given them another chance.  The QC buds sound VERY similar to the QC 35 II.  Again, house sound, yada yada yada.  I'm sure some of it is my old man ears but that's probably the Bose target demo  .  They certainly aren't the be all/end all in terms of audio.  My HD-6XX / Bottlehead Crack or FIIO FH5/LG V30 are both superior combos, but the Bose do have a very pleasing sound to my ears with great noise cancelling, comfort and in-ear stability.
> 
> ...



I feel the XM4 have the right sound profile for a fun listen and especially for out and about. If you want more analytical, go wired as I always say. Bass is definitely an area where they have improved over the xm3 I feel. The few EDM tracks I played even on iPhone sounds much better than XM3, authoritative but not boomy.

The double bass on 'Perfect' by Fairground Attraction is great.

Over LDAC the XM4 is 👌 I encourage all to try it if you can. One of the reasons to get them IMO.


----------



## Thesonofkrypton

SilverEars said:


> Yeah, QCbuds is probably my fav TWS in terms of sound.  What impressed me was the  soundstage (huge!) and the bass.  I hated the bulk.  I don't like the fullsized QC series.


QC35II were pretty decent I thought and I’m generally not a fan of Bose.


----------



## yeeyy

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Have to ask a few questions first:
> 
> What content will you be consuming (genres of music, apps used, VoIP calls, etc)?
> What about the N6 Pro do you wish you could improve?
> ...


1. Mainly focus in music playing. I will use my Air Pod for my daily conference call usage. Genre of music…. Technically I’m listening to pop rock indie acoustic and etc, non specific. IMHO, shouldn’t a good earphone is to reproduce the original recording song? Thus, nothing specific in genres.

2. I am not sure if this is the limitation of single driver earphone, but I wish for better music separation and reproduction, the low can go lower (and deeper but not full of it) and the high can be higher (and clearer but not noisier).

3. Features must have is wireless Ifor the convenient, can produce better sound quality without the need of additional adapter. If the call quality (& latency) can be better and replacing my Air Pod will be a great plus.

4. I do not set a budget yet, but I’m eyeing B&W PI7 and KEF MU3. Both are acceptable to me.

Thanks in advance for your time and helps. Cheers.


----------



## tiagopinto

erockg said:


> New Jaybird Vista 2's announce tomorrow.  Someone left up their staging page.  Oops.
> 
> https://www.jaybirdsport.com/en-us/staging/vista2-pdp.985-000928.html



Hmm, interesting...


----------



## tiagopinto

yeeyy said:


> IMHO, shouldn’t a good earphone is to reproduce the original recording song? Thus, nothing specific in genres.



This is definitely my belief. This is what I’m always looking for in any type of headphone. It’s called Fidelity. In our case, High-Fidelity. 

TWS are extremely convenient but... are not there yet (but are coming closer). BTLEAudio/LC3 will take us closer or hopefully pretty much there. I believe one other possible solution would be Wi-Fi. But tech wise it’s currently not feasible (mainly because of power and size).

Until then we can feast on whatever is here. For me it’s not reasonable to spend more than 200$ on a device that will last probably no more than two years and where this new tech is impeding in less than a years time. But the pursuit for that fidelity takes some of us there, understandably. Some of us are even grabbing our beloved IEM’s and connecting them to somewhat cumbersome adapters so we may be closer to the goal mingling quality and convenience.

We progress, pushing the market and being pushed by the industry.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

Thesonofkrypton said:


> QC35II were pretty decent I thought and I’m generally not a fan of Bose.


Hear, here! Still have the original QC35 that were gifted to me by the wife on original release. Imo. One of the best-built consumer products I've ever bought. Was the first emergence of that refreshed house sound, but I do miss their old multidriver floorstanders (think they were the 501). That was Bose at its finest.


yeeyy said:


> 1. Mainly focus in music playing. I will use my Air Pod for my daily conference call usage. Genre of music…. Technically I’m listening to pop rock indie acoustic and etc, non specific. IMHO, shouldn’t a good earphone is to reproduce the original recording song? Thus, nothing specific in genres.
> 
> 2. I am not sure if this is the limitation of single driver earphone, but I wish for better music separation and reproduction, the low can go lower (and deeper but not full of it) and the high can be higher (and clearer but not noisier).
> 
> ...


You may want to consider multi-driver. I can't recommend the B&W because I've never tried it, but I do have the Noble Falcon Pro, ADV M5-TWS, and JBL Club Pro+ (assuming they're compatible with your ears) all get you pretty darn close. In the case of the ADV or JBL, they tremendously benefit from the Azla Crystal tips (about $20 for a pack of 2). SpinFit CP100 worked well with the JBL, too, but I prefer the Azla tips' tackiness for consistent fit and basically no nozzle to mess with the sound signature.

Had you not made a comment that asked for bass to dig low, I'd also recommend the UE FITS or Technics AZ70W as both have exceptional staging and midrange detail. Personally, I think the FITS are still one of my absolute favorites, but they're definitely a grower and don't have some of the bass weight you're probably looking for. Perhaps later on when you're willing to go for something a little more neutral. Those are all-day comfortable as well, thanks to their pretty shallow insertion to the ear canal. The Technics are live/acoustic beasts, but also have a similar issue to the UEs when it comes to bass presence. I'd attribute that to the relatively large dynamic drivers in each, which tend to excel in bass quality at the expense of quantity.


tiagopinto said:


> This is definitely my belief. This is what I’m always looking for in any type of headphone. It’s called Fidelity. In our case, High-Fidelity.
> 
> TWS are extremely convenient but... are not there yet (but are coming closer). BTLEAudio/LC3 will take us closer or hopefully pretty much there. I believe one other possible solution would be Wi-Fi. But tech wise it’s currently not feasible (mainly because of power and size).
> 
> ...


All of this is why I have the Etymotion cable for the ER4XR and the CF01 for everything else. It takes the "what if" out of the equation and lets you know what IEM X sounds like wireless. Great way to both set up a reference point and give IEMs more regular use than they may have in the past. And they're blooming comfortable to boot. FiiO and TRN make a version as well, but again...no personal experience. Others can chime in on their experiences here.

If you go that route, @yeeyy you may see a faster return on your investment. If you go this route, I'd suggest picking up some MMCX/2pin adapters from OE on MusicTeck or OE's website for maximum compatibility. Even my old KZ ED16 sound fantastic through the CF01. Really hope iBasso upgrades that model with a LDAC or aptX Adaptive variant in the future, but it's otherwise a fantastic product.

Side benefit: they did survive an unexpected dunk in the bath while I had my Blessing 2 connected. Had to dry out the B2 in silica, but the CF01 just needed a quick wipe and everything was copacetic. Not sure what megabuck TWS I'd feel half as confident doing that with.


----------



## Thesonofkrypton

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Hear, here! Still have the original QC35 that were gifted to me by the wife on original release. Imo. One of the best-built consumer products I've ever bought. Was the first emergence of that refreshed house sound, but I do miss their old multidriver floorstanders (think they were the 501). That was Bose at its finest.


What a generous wife ha, all I ever get is socks. I remember the original fondly as a colleague use to wear them all the time at work and kept trying to get us all to buy them lol bit pricey at the time and wireless wasn't were it is now.  Would have bought the mkII model but I got sold on the sony XM3 last moment, but I remember trying them out at the airport electronics shop for a bit and thought they sounded better than the xm3 around my neck at the time.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

Thesonofkrypton said:


> What a generous wife ha, all I ever get is socks. I remember the original fondly as a colleague use to wear them all the time at work and kept trying to get us all to buy them lol bit pricey at the time and wireless wasn't were it is now.  Would have bought the mkII model but I got sold on the sony XM3 last moment, but I remember trying them out at the airport electronics shop for a bit and thought they sounded better than the xm3 around my neck at the time.


Learned years later that she was trying to enable me to support her hobby. We have a...mutual armistice when it comes to our respective interests. We try to not talk about cost hahaha. I could have bought a couple pairs of flagship TWS for what her vanity mirror ran me.


----------



## samandhi

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Learned years later that she was trying to enable me to support her hobby. We have a...mutual armistice when it comes to our respective interests. We try to not talk about cost hahaha. I could have bought a couple pairs of flagship TWS for what her vanity mirror ran me.


That is still a wonderful wife, enabling you for her interest or not... A win is still a win, however it comes.


----------



## Caipirina

jant71 said:


> Even though most are still in the honeymoon with the new ANC model from Sony there is this for those who go in the other direction for an open design...
> 
> " Ambie will release the completely wireless earphone "TW-01" after the end of August as a new model of "earphones that do not block the ears" "ambie sound earcuffs". The price is 15,000 yen (tax included). Advance reservations will be accepted from June 10th today.
> 
> ...


I had something in this form factor since early 2020. I might even posted about that here (yes, I did) ... it's actually really nice around the house when you still need to be aware ... 

At 150$ one would expect a much better SQ ... but my 15$ ones aren't even that bad.


----------



## helmutcheese (Jun 12, 2021)

*WF-1000XM4 Battery Life:



*


----------



## samandhi

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Learned years later that she was trying to enable me to support her hobby. We have a...mutual armistice when it comes to our respective interests. We try to not talk about cost hahaha. I could have bought a couple pairs of flagship TWS for what her vanity mirror ran me.





samandhi said:


> That is still a wonderful wife, enabling you for her interest or not... A win is still a win, however it comes.


On that same note, I just bought the DX300, and she didn't even go crazy like she normally would. All she said (calmly) was "That's nice honey". OK! Now I'm kind of afraid... LOL

Or, maybe I should pick up some new TWS while she is still in that calm mood?!  If you don't see me here in more than a week or so, assume the worst!

Or a third option is that she is planning on getting something that might totally break the bank. 🤷‍♂️


----------



## Thesonofkrypton

Most likely the latter lol

Fourth Corner album by Trixie Whitley and Love and War album by Fleurie sound particularly good with the XM4.  

The sub bass rumble on a couple tracks caught me by surprise, really good.


----------



## helmutcheese (Jun 12, 2021)

*Windows 10 DEV Codec Used:*


----------



## CactusPete23

dj24 said:


> Thanks!  You are right.  To play sound from a firestick hooked up to an HDTV, I will require a bluetooth transmitter and not an adapter.  Not too concerned about codecs and as long as there is no delay or lip synch and can make out dialogue, I'll be more than satisfied.


I have a somewhat Rube Goldberg solution for you.  Get a 3.5mm Splitter cable that gives you 2 3.5mm Stereo outputs, and then get TWO Bluetooth Transmitters.  The Bluetooth transmitters don't need to be expensive.  Especially if you are OK with SBC, and don't need AAC, APTX APTX-HD; or the hardest to find an LDAC Transmitter.
This way you'll have a separate bluetooth transmitter for each TWS.


----------



## helmutcheese (Jun 12, 2021)

I have a Transmitter that does aptX-HD so use Optical to it (the Avantree was USB but buggy),  the newer Fiio BTA30 LDAC one is a bit buggy going by reviews/comments and again you need use Optical as the USB has some limitation added to LDAC does not enable in that mode.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

samandhi said:


> On that same note, I just bought the DX300, and she didn't even go crazy like she normally would. All she said (calmly) was "That's nice honey". OK! Now I'm kind of afraid... LOL
> 
> Or, maybe I should pick up some new TWS while she is still in that calm mood?!  If you don't see me here in more than a week or so, assume the worst!
> 
> Or a third option is that she is planning on getting something that might totally break the bank. 🤷‍♂️


Someone is planning a bit purchase...congrats on the DX300! Should be a great upgrade. Maybe options 2 and 3 are both viable


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

CactusPete23 said:


> I have a somewhat Rube Goldberg solution for you.  Get a 3.5mm Splitter cable that gives you 2 3.5mm Stereo outputs, and then get TWO Bluetooth Transmitters.  The Bluetooth transmitters don't need to be expensive.  Especially if you are OK with SBC, and don't need AAC, APTX APTX-HD; or the hardest to find an LDAC Transmitter.
> This way you'll have a separate bluetooth transmitter for each TWS.


The issue with this is they'll be effectively splitting the input voltage between two devices. Yes, it'll work and with two separate IDs, is also probably easier to manage. If the signal strength coming from the TV to the device was more robust, I think this would be a better idea, but they're usually only a few mW, if even that.


----------



## webvan

Caipirina said:


> I had something in this form factor since early 2020. I might even posted about that here (yes, I did) ... it's actually really nice around the house when you still need to be aware ...
> 
> At 150$ one would expect a much better SQ ... but my 15$ ones aren't even that bad.



What a weird design ! Any advantage over the X12s for running or biking (for which the X12s are pretty much unusable due to wind noise) ?


----------



## CactusPete23

miserybeforethemusic said:


> The issue with this is they'll be effectively splitting the input voltage between two devices. Yes, it'll work and with two separate IDs, is also probably easier to manage. If the signal strength coming from the TV to the device was more robust, I think this would be a better idea, but they're usually only a few mW, if even that.


I still think this will work.  It's what those Analog to BT transmitters are for.  One could also come off the TV's RCA Jacks and split to two BT Transmitters in a similar way.  It's just an idea to solve a problem that was asked.


----------



## dweaver

My AZ70 are starting to have a ticking sound when walking and jogging. Might be looking at warranty. If I do I might see if they have a new model in the works . See if I can finagle them into upgrading lol.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

dweaver said:


> My AZ70 are starting to have a ticking sound when walking and jogging. Might be looking at warranty. If I do I might see if they have a new model in the works . See if I can finagle them into upgrading lol.


Wouldn't blame you. So far so good on mine. Man, I just love them for the stuff they do well. Hope you can get it worked out!


----------



## darveniza

Went back to using my AKG N400 vs the BW PI7 and MD08. 
The sound signature is really enticing and you don't need to turn ANC to get a bass punch
Controls are much flexible and easier to handling when walking or running
The only issue is the case ,it's chubby 🙄


----------



## Aevum

Im split, the N400 sounds awesome, but the lack of multipoint, the issues with the problematic contacts (got sick of pulling them out and them being dead), the iffy controls, and the ANC is next to useless.

Bought the Huawei freebuds pro, sounds less nice, ANC works better, has multipoint connection seamless. between PC and my cellphone at work

for now, i think that the n400 for free time and the freebuds for work.


----------



## tiagopinto (Jun 12, 2021)

erockg said:


> Thought that too, but I'm not sure that's the market for them.  They want runners and bikers.  Guess we'll see.  Man, I had the first gen Jaybirds years ago when BT headphones weren't a thing yet.  Pretty cool to see them evolve.  I'll prob pass on these.  Until the wild hair tickles.



I still own and use my Bluebuds X. From 2014.

(Edit: That goes against my short life argument. But I also think those are a unicorn)


----------



## Caipirina

webvan said:


> What a weird design ! Any advantage over the X12s for running or biking (for which the X12s are pretty much unusable due to wind noise) ?


can't say I have tested with wind .. it reminds me of those bone conducting headphones ... you kinda hear the music and it's not too bad, but have not considered using it for running ..  those S19 are unfortunatelly BT connection huggers, even when in box, they love to hijack the connection and disturb whatever music I am playing, so most of the time I have to say 'forget device' ...  oh, but the X12 love doing that too sometimes, not as bad though


----------



## yeeyy

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Hear, here! Still have the original QC35 that were gifted to me by the wife on original release. Imo. One of the best-built consumer products I've ever bought. Was the first emergence of that refreshed house sound, but I do miss their old multidriver floorstanders (think they were the 501). That was Bose at its finest.
> 
> You may want to consider multi-driver. I can't recommend the B&W because I've never tried it, but I do have the Noble Falcon Pro, ADV M5-TWS, and JBL Club Pro+ (assuming they're compatible with your ears) all get you pretty darn close. In the case of the ADV or JBL, they tremendously benefit from the Azla Crystal tips (about $20 for a pack of 2). SpinFit CP100 worked well with the JBL, too, but I prefer the Azla tips' tackiness for consistent fit and basically no nozzle to mess with the sound signature.
> 
> ...


Sorry if misunderstood I’m a bass head - not, I’m not. I like to have the bass to dig lower but not full of bass.

I am definitely a lover of Natural and balance sound, and that’s the reason I bought the N6 Pro.

No I really do not want to buy another accessories with the TWS IEM as I use it on the go. At home I will listen to my wired HD600.

Truly thankful for your recommendation and I will see if I had a chance to try out FITS. I know UE used to be famous with their IEM, not so sure about them (& TWS IEM) now.


----------



## EMINENT (Jun 13, 2021)

I have been testing my WF-1000XM4 the past couple days. Sold the MTW2 in anticipation of these and wanted to experience some Sony's.
I started with the medium which fit good, but at times found if I yawned I would break seal. I tried the large and they were surprisingly comfortable. It is important to squeeze them. The large don't break seal if I open my mouth or move my jaw. Also, sub base sometimes sounded weak or weird with the medium tips and this was corrected with the large tips.
I really don't care for anc at all. I really wished companies would stop focusing so much on this and more on sound quality. That being said, the anc is really good.
Soundstage is somewhat good. It lacks detail, slam and clarity too, but totally unfair comparison as I am judging them against my LCDi4. A downside to being spoiled by the i4 is that everything I have heard so far has been so far away. Even with LDAC on my Galaxy Z Fold 2 and at 990 kbps, these are not there yet. It's like listening in standard definition vs 4k HDR.

An example is the bass drop at 2:53 of Alicia Keys - Back To Life

Busy passages are sort of mushed and sounds compressed. Bass drops are suppressed or just not dynamic enough. Obviously nowhere near as fast as planar either.
Nonetheless, I do like them for what they are and so far the best all rounder with the most tech to date, wireless charging case, LDAC, great anc, ip rating, long battery life, better app and small case.


----------



## helmutcheese

I am going to mess with 3rd party tips today (none of Sony's fit me as I need XL) so using  SednaEarfit Crystals on my XM4's for near perfect passive seal but the sound is horrid  (with no real mids/highs more like muddy), they did do the same thing to one of my other non TWS sets but worked well on all others including TWS sets so going to try my SpinFits knowing it may loose me some passive NC.

Also have battery issue on R bud and a few other things to post once I am done but so far not too happy.


----------



## senorbroom

Has anyone tried both the XM4s and the Galaxy Buds Plus/Pro? I’m tossing up whether to pre-order the XM4 (arriving mid-July) or wait for the Galaxy Buds 2 (rumoured for August). I much prefer a more neutral sound than the Sony house sound, don’t require ANC, and would prefer multipoint, so am hoping the Buds 2 might be the ticket.


----------



## zeebee45 (Jun 13, 2021)

Help! 

Small ear woes;

My Samsung Galaxy Buds+ arrived yesterday and they are gigantic! They won't stay my ears as the body of the bud is the same size as my ear canal. I love the features on these and would keep them if not for the size issue. Both buds fell out this morning when walking to the subway..

I also tried the Soundpeats Trueair2 and preferred the sound of these but prefer the Galaxy buds for overall ease of use and connectivity with my iPhone.

What buds fit better for people with small ears??

Considering getting the Earfun Free 2s but I'm guessing I might prefer a set of buds which also excels in "ease of use for everyday commuting" - Edit: Just read a mediocre review on here by CK Moustache so might hold off: https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/earfun-free-2.25211/ 

My dream is a set of buds so comfortable, I completely forget they are in my ears. Thank you thank you!!


----------



## miserybeforethemusic (Jun 13, 2021)

yeeyy said:


> Sorry if misunderstood I’m a bass head - not, I’m not. I like to have the bass to dig lower but not full of bass.
> 
> I am definitely a lover of Natural and balance sound, and that’s the reason I bought the N6 Pro.
> 
> ...


Thanks for clarifying; I misunderstood. Sounds like you're more interested in natural timbre, in which case the FITS may make a very good pairing. I've found they represent just about everything on that White Willow album marvelously and it's really fun when you go through some of those baroque sessions in a track that are immediately represented by some subsonic synth-laden Krautrock...it's just expert-level symphonic prog and so good.

Now I'm going to go against the grain a bit and say that the CX400BT have been making it out more for listening lately. They seem to have a very narrow band of strengths, but they really do handle stuff that wasn't mixed for heavy bass quite admirably. I wish the fit matched and it's honestly one of the only reasons I'm considering the MTW2 (hopefully a 3, we'll see what this acquisition does for Sennheiser...purely for the better ergonomics). Perhaps I gave it a premature bad wrap, but no other pair I have handles guitars in a mix quite like the CX400BT can. It's not better or worse than the others, just remarkably unique, much the same way the HD650 has a cult following for its level of midrange detail.

And while I've never had a pair to try, I've only heard fantastic things about the Devialet Gemini now that it seems they've smoothed out their firmware issues. Folks like @erockg can chime in there.

I get it on the TWS adapters, but do know that (at least as far as SQ is concerned) we're still in different ballparks between the tiny wireless guys and their wired counterparts. Even the ER4XR sound remarkably different when wired into a good powered source and wallop most of the currently-available TWS for the criteria you're considering. Doesn't mean you can't find something fun, but you might spend more in the process.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

zeebee45 said:


> What buds fit better for people with small ears??


Maybe some of JBL's offerings will work for you. My chief complaint with the Club Pro+ is that they're just a mm or two too shallow to be right for my ears. I can make them work with Azla Crystals and they sound phenomenal, but that fit aspect just irks me. The depth might be a good option for you, though, so I'd suggest taking a look.

Otherwise, maybe the Earin A3 might work for you in terms of something you can forget you have in.


----------



## zeebee45

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Maybe some of JBL's offerings will work for you. My chief complaint with the Club Pro+ is that they're just a mm or two too shallow to be right for my ears. I can make them work with Azla Crystals and they sound phenomenal, but that fit aspect just irks me. The depth might be a good option for you, though, so I'd suggest taking a look.
> 
> Otherwise, maybe the Earin A3 might work for you in terms of something you can forget you have in.


Thank you so much for these suggestions! JBL seems to have mixed reviews which is why I had initially looked in other directions. Same with the Earins. Have you tried the Earins before? If you've tried 'em, what did you think?


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

zeebee45 said:


> Thank you so much for these suggestions! JBL seems to have mixed reviews which is why I had initially looked in other directions. Same with the Earins. Have you tried the Earins before? If you've tried 'em, what did you think?


@erockg has them and can comment, but I remember him being the one to mention he forgets they're even in.

What about the JBL's reviews are mixed?


----------



## zeebee45

miserybeforethemusic said:


> @erockg has them and can comment, but I remember him being the one to mention he forgets they're even in.
> 
> What about the JBL's reviews are mixed?


Cool, that describes my wildest TWS dreams  
Read mixed review re JBL's on sound and pairing


----------



## miserybeforethemusic (Jun 13, 2021)

zeebee45 said:


> Cool, that describes my wildest TWS dreams
> Read mixed review re JBL's on sound and pairing


Interesting. Pairing was effortless (edit: closest to the AirPods Pro I've had yet on Android), but I have a OnePlus 8T and it supports that easy pairing tech. I think a lot of the sound reviews were made in a previous firmware where some bug caused audio to duck whenever ANC or HearThrough was on. That's since been corrected, but it is a quieter pair when compared to some of the other stuff out there. I compensated for that by making an EQ that just boosted everything 4dB and that helps.

The rest of it I think is tip-dependent. I like using the SpinFits with the JBL if I don't want to overthink it.


----------



## zeebee45

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Interesting. Pairing was effortless (edit: closest to the AirPods Pro I've had yet on Android), but I have a OnePlus 8T and it supports that easy pairing tech. I think a lot of the sound reviews were made in a previous firmware where some bug caused audio to duck whenever ANC or HearThrough was on. That's since been corrected, but it is a quieter pair when compared to some of the other stuff out there. I compensated for that by making an EQ that just boosted everything 4dB and that helps.
> 
> The rest of it I think is tip-dependent. I like using the SpinFits with the JBL if I don't want to overthink it.


Helpful hearing some of the issues might have been due to previous firmware issues. - Still dreaming of a sound-focused brand for my higher end pair, like the Earsonic Aeros but am waiting for some 5.2 Bluetooth options to launch. 

Considering the Fiil T1 Pro as my less expensive pair. Have you tried these before or heard people's thoughts on them? Or do you think I'd be better off going with the Earfuns as a budget pair? 

Also saw Soundcore is launching their Life P3 buds in July which I'm pretty excited about


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

zeebee45 said:


> Helpful hearing some of the issues might have been due to previous firmware issues. - Still dreaming of a sound-focused brand for my higher end pair, like the Earsonic Aeros but am waiting for some 5.2 Bluetooth options to launch.
> 
> Considering the Fiil T1 Pro as my less expensive pair. Have you tried these before or heard people's thoughts on them? Or do you think I'd be better off going with the Earfuns as a budget pair?
> 
> Also saw Soundcore is launching their Life P3 buds in July which I'm pretty excited about


I had the Earfun Free Pro, which are pretty similar. They didn't work for my ears or listening habits, but they were certainly tiny. Sound-wise, it's my understanding that the FIIL is an upgrade.

Those Earsonics look great and, based on the reviews I've seen, set a pretty high bar. I do think the JBL do that in their own signature way and it's not something I've heard done the same elsewhere (much like the UEs). That being said, I currently have in a pair of the CF01 and Dunu DK-3001 Pro with a pair of the included SpinFits. This is neutral, timbrally accurate yet powerful, light, comfortable, and simple. It's IEM-level resolution (with the accompanying cost) without the cord. As far as I'm concerned, that's exactly what I was after.

If iBasso and Dunu would ever collaborate on a TWS, I have a feeling it would be an instant hit. Until then, this is good enough.


----------



## tma6

Just got the moondrop sparks in! Will update with first impressions soon


----------



## EMINENT

senorbroom said:


> Has anyone tried both the XM4s and the Galaxy Buds Plus/Pro? I’m tossing up whether to pre-order the XM4 (arriving mid-July) or wait for the Galaxy Buds 2 (rumoured for August). I much prefer a more neutral sound than the Sony house sound, don’t require ANC, and would prefer multipoint, so am hoping the Buds 2 might be the ticket.


I have. I just got done A/B testing these two for the past hour. The Buds Pro are not bad at all. Interestingly, with the tracks I am testing of note, same Alicia Keys - Back To Life at 2:53, the Sony's can't match the treble or volume output of the Buds Pro in effect sounding too low or just lacking in detail. I adjusted the volume by 1-2 notches down from max to see if volume was leading my perception of clarity, but even matching volume detail in highs are better on the Buds Pro at least on this song. Same song in Flac. I have messed with eq quite a bit and can't seem to improve it. The Sony's are unfortunately dark. I can say bass is cleaner on Sony by a hair if talking similar quantity with Buds Pro on Bass Boost. Most other tracks sound good with the Sony's like electronica, but for some reason struggles with this song and passage. 

Another test I did was latency on my LG C9 with Youtube. While most reviewers saying no problem with most tests, this isn't exactly accurate or the control for the test was not very good. 

What I found was the Sony had better latency than the Buds Pro by a noticeable amount. Most likely due to 5.2 vs. 5 on the Buds Pro. This was tested again with a couple Alicia Keys videos showing her playing piano. Key strikes were more in sync when heard on the XM4. 

I am torn. On one hand I like the sound better on the Buds Pro, but I have got to have my Alicia vids in sync.


----------



## jsmiller58 (Jun 13, 2021)

EMINENT said:


> I have. I just got done A/B testing these two for the past hour. The Buds Pro are not bad at all. Interestingly, with the tracks I am testing of note, same Alicia Keys - Back To Life at 2:53, the Sony's can't match the treble or volume output of the Buds Pro in effect sounding too low or just lacking in detail. I adjusted the volume by 1-2 notches down from max to see if volume was leading my perception of clarity, but even matching volume detail in highs are better on the Buds Pro at least on this song. Same song in Flac. I have messed with eq quite a bit and can't seem to improve it. The Sony's are unfortunately dark. I can say bass is cleaner on Sony by a hair if talking similar quantity with Buds Pro on Bass Boost. Most other tracks sound good with the Sony's like electronica, but for some reason struggles with this song and passage.
> 
> Another test I did was latency on my LG C9 with Youtube. While most reviewers saying no problem with most tests, this isn't exactly accurate or the control for the test was not very good.
> 
> ...


Pretty much the only way I can enjoy the XM4 is with EQ.  And, for me, when EQ is applied they are good sounding for a TWS, especially given all the features you have access to.  I don’t think anyone should give up on these until they have tried to customize the sound in EQ.  The EQ is free, it doesn’t detract from the sound or features, and while most people may agree the XM4 is a dark IEM, the perfect sound is a matter of taste.

Fit wise they are a bit clunky to get into my ears, but pretty stable once in.  Comfort is also good as long as I am careful to not have them create a hot spot boy putting too much pressure on the folds of my ear.


----------



## VICosPhi

EBPMan has posted a video comparison of MTW2 and XM4 TWS. Good to hear both mic and sound comparison...


----------



## Thesonofkrypton (Jun 13, 2021)

Just took the XM4 through The Prodigy's Always Outnumbered, Never Outgunned and Massive Attack's Blue Line album.  Get's the thumbs up from me!  Really goes hand in hand with the EDM / dance stuff I've thrown at it.  I find you don't even need ANC on most of the time, especially at home, even with two kids around, because of the fit, it passively blocks out noise.

Ticks all the boxes for me and no EQing required on LDAC.  Simply superb. IMO, if you're buying these and not using LDAC, you're missing out a little but still as an overall package it's still very decent.  Sounds great even on iPhone X using aac and when you're out and about, that will be more than acceptable.  LDAC perfect for when you're seated and not walking about and don't want to carry your wired set up around.

Wouldn't mind if they could shrink the earbuds down a little for the next iteration or give us a larger driver in that existing shell. Otherwise no complaints!


----------



## snapandslide

How's the battery drain if you use DSEE on the XM4s?


----------



## helmutcheese (Jun 13, 2021)

Look at chart I posted for battery life 2 pages back.


----------



## tma6

Moondrop sparks sound really nice, excellent tuning


----------



## bladefd

EMINENT said:


> I have been testing my WF-1000XM4 the past couple days. Sold the MTW2 in anticipation of these and wanted to experience some Sony's.
> I started with the medium which fit good, but at times found if I yawned I would break seal. I tried the large and they were surprisingly comfortable. It is important to squeeze them. The large don't break seal if I open my mouth or move my jaw. Also, sub base sometimes sounded weak or weird with the medium tips and this was corrected with the large tips.
> *I really don't care for anc at all. I really wished companies would stop focusing so much on this and more on sound quality.* That being said, the anc is really good.
> Soundstage is somewhat good. It lacks detail, slam and clarity too, but totally unfair comparison as I am judging them against my LCDi4. A downside to being spoiled by the i4 is that everything I have heard so far has been so far away. Even with LDAC on my Galaxy Z Fold 2 and at 990 kbps, these are not there yet. It's like listening in standard definition vs 4k HDR.
> ...


Completely agreed. There is no need for further improvement with ANC except where it helps with battery life. ANC is great already - I don't see how it can improve much more. It takes resources, time & money to improve something. I would rather see them throw more money/time/resources into sound quality and condensing the number of microchips necessary so they can drive up the driver size, maybe make dual-drivers the norm, anything to improve the sound quality to be closer to the wired IEMs.


----------



## bladefd

Would be nice if someone could provide basic comparison between the xm4 and Melomania Touch!


----------



## PixelSquish

bladefd said:


> Would be nice if someone could provide basic comparison between the xm4 and Melomania Touch!


The XM4 are simply more polished and clearly with more features. To me the MT are definitely a step up in SQ. Also the fit is amazing. However I returned mine because they were glitchy. But I do remember the sound well. To me they were definitely better than the MTW2, and I find the XM4 and MTW2 to be similar in SQ, for my tastes.


----------



## jsmiller58

PixelSquish said:


> The XM4 are simply more polished and clearly with more features. To me the MT are definitely a step up in SQ. Also the fit is amazing. However I returned mine because they were glitchy. But I do remember the sound well. To me they were definitely better than the MTW2, and I find the XM4 and MTW2 to be similar in SQ, for my tastes.


Almost a carbon copy of my impression as well.  MT sound better and are more comfortable than the XM4.  But the XM4 features simply overwhelm the MT.  They both have a spot in my collection; XM4 where I need top notch ANC, and the MT for around the home.


----------



## clerkpalmer

jsmiller58 said:


> Almost a carbon copy of my impression as well.  MT sound better and are more comfortable than the XM4.  But the XM4 features simply overwhelm the MT.  They both have a spot in my collection; XM4 where I need top notch ANC, and the MT for around the home.


You guys think the MT sounds better? Is this a sound signature thing? The Sony should blow them away by all accounts unless it’s the Sony tuning you don’t like.


----------



## helmutcheese (Jun 13, 2021)

The Sony's too dark for me, mostly bass no mid/highs, imagine listening to Mozart or Enya with a basshead's earphones even then it is muddy, I cannot get on with them.

Tried Sony EQ no EQ then same on different Music Players with their own EQ's and on PC and Android Mobile phone.

IMO earphones should not need tuned that is what an EQ is for, let the speakers play the sound as it is good or bad but I know they can be unforgiving with poor quality files so probably why they tune them many go for that V shape which does sound ok TBH.


----------



## jant71

clerkpalmer said:


> You guys think the MT sounds better? Is this a sound signature thing? The Sony should blow them away by all accounts unless it’s the Sony tuning you don’t like.


I'm not getting that. Seems the Sony sound very good but in a pack maybe a smidge better than the Senn but not quite the MT or the PI7. Around the Grado, Noble, and such. Even the M&D provided you can fit them right to not choke the driver to being muddy seems to edge out the Sony. The Sony need EQ so this isn't even out of the box where they might be rated lower. Don't think the Sony are blowing any of the better sounding units away even with LDAC. ANC looks like the top of the heap for sure though. Ambient and mics/call quality not quite up to Apples.


----------



## erockg

zeebee45 said:


> Cool, that describes my wildest TWS dreams
> Read mixed review re JBL's on sound and pairing


The Earin's are great.  I've had every generation.  I'm not an open earbuds guy, but these are cool.  Some days when I'm out at a park with my toddler I leave them in to listen to baseball games or music.  I can hear everything around me, including his screams of joy while running or pain when he falls.  I forget they're in, like today.  Was sitting at home and realized they were still in my ears.  Super tiny.  Case is tiny.  Not the best sounding unless you crank them, but if you're looking for a low profile, easily unseen, able to use each earbud independently earbud -- they're worth a shot.


----------



## bladefd (Jun 13, 2021)

So I should wait for next generation TWS if I already have the MT? I don't really care about ANC, couple extra features, etc. I mainly care about sq and comfort, which MT does great already. Aptx to LDAC is probably negligible. I'm getting the MT rma'd sometime this month due to the volume issue it has & charging issue. Hopefully, that will solve those 2 issues.

@PixelSquish @jsmiller58


----------



## erockg

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Thanks for clarifying; I misunderstood. Sounds like you're more interested in natural timbre, in which case the FITS may make a very good pairing. I've found they represent just about everything on that White Willow album marvelously and it's really fun when you go through some of those baroque sessions in a track that are immediately represented by some subsonic synth-laden Krautrock...it's just expert-level symphonic prog and so good.
> 
> Now I'm going to go against the grain a bit and say that the CX400BT have been making it out more for listening lately. They seem to have a very narrow band of strengths, but they really do handle stuff that wasn't mixed for heavy bass quite admirably. I wish the fit matched and it's honestly one of the only reasons I'm considering the MTW2 (hopefully a 3, we'll see what this acquisition does for Sennheiser...purely for the better ergonomics). Perhaps I gave it a premature bad wrap, but no other pair I have handles guitars in a mix quite like the CX400BT can. It's not better or worse than the others, just remarkably unique, much the same way the HD650 has a cult following for its level of midrange detail.
> 
> ...


The Devialet Gemini are phenomenal.  Still my number one fav in my collection.  The soundstage is incredible, very wide and the dynamic EQ setting is just euphoric.  ANC is on par with my Sony XM4 buds within my listening environment.  Both are my go-to buds as of today.  This is after taking in consideration for them as a whole package.  Devialet fixed all the fw issues.  I also grabbed the new Jabra Vista 2s and I'm still running them through my life.  They sound damn good and they have so many EQ possibilities.  ANC is nowhere near the Sonys or Devialet.  Passthrough works great and they're TINY.  Going to pit them against my Earin A-3 for out an about/low profile buds.  I had the first gen Vista and the 2s fix everything I hated about the first gen IMO.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

erockg said:


> The Devialet Gemini are phenomenal.  Still my number one fav in my collection.  The soundstage is incredible, very wide and the dynamic EQ setting is just euphoric.  ANC is on par with my Sony XM4 buds within my listening environment.  Both are my go-to buds as of today.  This is after taking in consideration for them as a whole package.  Devialet fixed all the fw issues.  I also grabbed the new Jabra Vista 2s and I'm still running them through my life.  They sound damn good and they have so many EQ possibilities.  ANC is nowhere near the Sonys or Devialet.  Passthrough works great and they're TINY.  Going to pit them against my Earin A-3 for out an about/low profile buds.  I had the first gen Vista and the 2s fix everything I hated about the first gen IMO.


Nice! Had time to figure out if the windproof stuff was just a gimmick?


----------



## erockg

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Nice! Had time to figure out if the windproof stuff was just a gimmick?


Not yet.  Today was an Earin day.  I'll test them out this week.  It's been windy here over by the beach for sure!  Getting ready for the heat wave


----------



## cresny

erockg said:


> The Devialet Gemini are phenomenal.  Still my number one fav in my collection.  The soundstage is incredible, very wide and the dynamic EQ setting is just euphoric.  ANC is on par with my Sony XM4 buds within my listening environment.  Both are my go-to buds as of today.  This is after taking in consideration for them as a whole package.  Devialet fixed all the fw issues.  I also grabbed the new Jabra Vista 2s and I'm still running them through my life.  They sound damn good and they have so many EQ possibilities.  ANC is nowhere near the Sonys or Devialet.  Passthrough works great and they're TINY.  Going to pit them against my Earin A-3 for out an about/low profile buds.  I had the first gen Vista and the 2s fix everything I hated about the first gen IMO.


Do you think ANC is better on the XM4 or are the Geminis really that close? I was thinking of getting the XM4s at least as daytime work buds and ANC is a huge deal for me there. Also I've heard that comfort is not that great, nor is call quality, so I'm very much still on the fence. And yeah I really like the Geminis so it's not so much about the music for the XM4s. Thoughts?


----------



## erockg

cresny said:


> Do you think ANC is better on the XM4 or are the Geminis really that close? I was thinking of getting the XM4s at least as daytime work buds and ANC is a huge deal for me there. Also I've heard that comfort is not that great, nor is call quality, so I'm very much still on the fence. And yeah I really like the Geminis so it's not so much about the music for the XM4s. Thoughts?


Sadly, I switch to my AirPods Pro for my 20+ work Zoom calls per week.  Only because I need to easily switch between devices.  I do use the Gemini for calls occasionally and never heard any complains but never sought out anyones opinions.  I didn't use the XM4s a lot last week for calls.  I had just gotten them the day after release.  I'll test them out this week on calls.  So, right now I just popped in my XM4s and then the Gemini while my wife is doing laundry, talking to my son and a air purifier going.  Both do very well and are comparable during this situation.  I can barely hear a zipper banging in the dryer and voices are 85% gone.  I actually love the fit of the Sonys.  I hated the XM3 fit, etc.  I absolutely love the XM4.  The case is also half the size of the Devialet case.  My suggestion is buy them from a place you can easily return them.  Test them for yourself.  All these Youtube videos are subjective.  You be the judge.  You can't go wrong with either.  If only they both had multi-pairing like AirPods and others.  For all of us on Zoom calls during the work-from-home days, it's a huge plus.


----------



## clerkpalmer

jant71 said:


> I'm not getting that. Seems the Sony sound very good but in a pack maybe a smidge better than the Senn but not quite the MT or the PI7. Around the Grado, Noble, and such. Even the M&D provided you can fit them right to not choke the driver to being muddy seems to edge out the Sony. The Sony need EQ so this isn't even out of the box where they might be rated lower. Don't think the Sony are blowing any of the better sounding units away even with LDAC. ANC looks like the top of the heap for sure though. Ambient and mics/call quality not quite up to Apples.


Thanks. I have not heard the MT but it sounds like I should. As far as the mw08, this is where opinions come in. To me, the Sony sounds much better. Not a muddy mess and i did try the mw08 with spinfits.  
As far as EQ, I’m not sure I get the hate on that. I EQ all of my headphones. I usually go with oratory’s settings and tweak from there. Lots of great of headphones benefit from EQ. With some treble emphasis, the Sony sound very very good to me. I agree with your assessment- not quite pI7 good but they are right there with the next tier. Again, to each their own. The Sony seem to excel at modern well produced music. They fall a little flat with some older recordings (by old I mean 20 years).


----------



## PixelSquish

bladefd said:


> So I should wait for next generation TWS if I already have the MT? I don't really care about ANC, couple extra features, etc. I mainly care about sq and comfort, which MT does great already. Aptx to LDAC is probably negligible. I'm getting the MT rma'd sometime this month due to the volume issue it has & charging issue. Hopefully, that will solve those 2 issues.
> 
> @PixelSquish @jsmiller58



I really liked the sound of the MT. I can't wait until they come out with a successor and I will try that. They were just too glitchy for me and a bit unpolished, including the touch controls being way too sensitive. Plus I do want good ANC for some scenarios. I did think the MT were a notch above the MTW2 in SQ for me. It wasn't a dramatic increase of SQ, but enough to feel these are slightly better and I enjoy them a touch more when I use them. For now I feel the MTW2 and XM4 are similar in SQ for me, even though they sound slightly different, they both make me happy the same amount.

If you don't care about ANC and the battery life, stick with the MT and save the money, spend that 300 on something else nice. I will be looking forward to Cambridge Audio's next TWS buds.


----------



## samandhi

PixelSquish said:


> I really liked the sound of the MT. I can't wait until they come out with a successor and I will try that. They were just too glitchy for me and a bit unpolished, including the touch controls being way too sensitive. Plus I do want good ANC for some scenarios. I did think the MT were a notch above the MTW2 in SQ for me. It wasn't a dramatic increase of SQ, but enough to feel these are slightly better and I enjoy them a touch more when I use them. For now I feel the MTW2 and XM4 are similar in SQ for me, even though they sound slightly different, they both make me happy the same amount.
> 
> If you don't care about ANC and the battery life, stick with the MT and save the money, spend that 300 on something else nice. I will be looking forward to Cambridge Audio's next TWS buds.


I think (in the end after many FW updates and re-tuning) the MT are one of those rare gems that punch in higher than their price tag IMO. Are they perfect? No! Are they accurately tuned? Heck no! But, do they have some really good technicalities in their single DD driver? Oh yes! Hopefully CA has learned a thing or two and the next gen will be better. I know I will be tempted (at least) to check them out. In the end, I am glad I bought them!


----------



## helmutcheese (Jun 14, 2021)

WF-1000XM4​Turned on fully charged buds/case at 00:35 BT 5.2, AAC, Non-ANC, Vol 30% playing brown noise, low batt warning on the R bud just after 5am and shortly after than same on the L bud.

R bud powered off at 5:48, immediately got phone and waited 1 minute and tapped R bud to power on and reconnect to the PC then quickly swapped to the phone to see the Sony App’s battery meter.

L bud 11% and R but 1% with just over 4 hours use instead of claimed 11 hours (assuming 50% Vol as not stated).


----------



## DougD

helmutcheese said:


> WF-1000XM4​Turned on fully charged buds/case at 00:35 BT 5.2, AAC, Non-ANC, Vol 30% playing brown noise, low batt warning on the R bud just after 5am and shortly after than same on the L bud.
> 
> R bud powered off at 5:48, immediately got phone and waited 1 minute and tapped R bud to power on and reconnect to the PC then quickly swapped to the phone to see the Sony App’s battery meter.
> 
> L bud 11% and R but 1% with just over 4 hours use instead of claimed 11 hours (assuming 50% Vol as not stated).


I just made a round-trip of 5 1/2 hrs each way, with an in-case recharge of 60+ minutes in between. LDAC and Noise-cancellation all the time. On the way out, no problems. On the way back, 2 "low battery" warnings before I arrived home, but neither bud shut down on its own. I got distracted on arrival and didn't look to see how much battery charge the Sony app said was left.


----------



## chinmie

helmutcheese said:


> WF-1000XM4​Turned on fully charged buds/case at 00:35 BT 5.2, AAC, Non-ANC, Vol 30% playing brown noise, low batt warning on the R bud just after 5am and shortly after than same on the L bud.
> 
> R bud powered off at 5:48, immediately got phone and waited 1 minute and tapped R bud to power on and reconnect to the PC then quickly swapped to the phone to see the Sony App’s battery meter.
> 
> L bud 11% and R but 1% with just over 4 hours use instead of claimed 11 hours (assuming 50% Vol as not stated).


 DSEE on?


----------



## dweaver

senorbroom said:


> Has anyone tried both the XM4s and the Galaxy Buds Plus/Pro? I’m tossing up whether to pre-order the XM4 (arriving mid-July) or wait for the Galaxy Buds 2 (rumoured for August). I much prefer a more neutral sound than the Sony house sound, don’t require ANC, and would prefer multipoint, so am hoping the Buds 2 might be the ticket.


Nothing about the XM4 reviews suggest it will be different enough from the Sony sound of late. If you prefer more neutral I imagine the Galaxy Pro would be more your liking of this upcoming Buds 2.


----------



## Thesonofkrypton

I know we always say this and that is better than this but really it all boils down to personal preference and opinion. I’m also into running and I always say one shoe that works for me might not necessarily work for someone else. Thank god for good old return policies in this game lol


----------



## Slowhand

I guess with PI7 and the MT standing out SQ-wise, proper amplification may be more important than initially assumed in this space. Looking forward to more actual HiFi companies stepping into this space. Could Focal be next?


----------



## nanaholic

dweaver said:


> Nothing about the XM4 reviews suggest it will be different enough from the Sony sound of late. If you prefer more neutral I imagine the Galaxy Pro would be more your liking of this upcoming Buds 2.


One thing you might want to keep in mind is that the Sony EQs EXTREMELY well and has a bunch of presets as well as a 5 band equaliser for finer adjustments. While out of the box they are tuned for mainstream bass sound, if you use the preset sound profiles or the EQ you can get neutral sound from them as well.

AFAIK the Galaxy Bud app only has presets and no EQ.


----------



## Thesonofkrypton

samandhi said:


> I think (in the end after many FW updates and re-tuning) the MT are one of those rare gems that punch in higher than their price tag IMO. Are they perfect? No! Are they accurately tuned? Heck no! But, do they have some really good technicalities in their single DD driver? Oh yes! Hopefully CA has learned a thing or two and the next gen will be better. I know I will be tempted (at least) to check them out. In the end, I am glad I bought them!



I dig the Melomania Touch. It’s a very decent sounding tws for the money but frustrated me with the connection issues. I look forward to the next iteration 100% if they keep or improve on the sound quality but work on improving the overall experience.


----------



## C_Lindbergh

Yea I agree, the Melomania touch kinda reminds me of the Shure Aonic 50, perfect SQ-wise/comfort, that pushes way above its price tag, but with a lackluster technical experience.

If CA can launch the next iteration without any bugs/connection issues with decent ANC-functionallity and Bluetooth LC3... I'd buy it in an instant.  The case itself wasn't really that great build quality wise, I wouldn't mind a slight price increase compared if they gave us ANC and a better case.


----------



## Thesonofkrypton (Jun 14, 2021)

For those of you looking to run in the XM4, went out for a second longer run today and you do actually feel them after about an hour, I think it’s mainly because it was a hot day, but they did manage to stay glued to the ears. In this regard, I think I prefer the AirPods Pro for running as they feel lighter and smaller.

However, the ANC when running is top shelf, absolutely superb, you feel 100% in a music bubble. 

One thing I need to commend Sony on is the Speak to Chat. It works flawlessly and is so good. Saves me having to remove one earbud when someone talks to you.


----------



## helmutcheese (Jun 14, 2021)

chinmie said:


> DSEE on?



Why would I need to upscale brown noise to sleep?

You did get I was using my PC? (so no Sony app or EQ's etc).


----------



## chinmie

helmutcheese said:


> Why would I need to upscale brown noise to sleep?
> 
> You did get I was using my PC? (so no Sony app or EQ's etc).



the XMs store their settings on the earpiece so (that i know of) it should stay that way even when connected to a PC. for example, my friend once tested my unit on his phone (which never have the Sony app installed), and my EQ settings still carried on the unit. so if you did turn it on, it's a factor. 

on whether or not you need to upscale brown noise or not: maybe you want to enjoy the extra brown-ess of the sound?


----------



## jsmiller58

helmutcheese said:


> WF-1000XM4​Turned on fully charged buds/case at 00:35 BT 5.2, AAC, Non-ANC, Vol 30% playing brown noise, low batt warning on the R bud just after 5am and shortly after than same on the L bud.
> 
> R bud powered off at 5:48, immediately got phone and waited 1 minute and tapped R bud to power on and reconnect to the PC then quickly swapped to the phone to see the Sony App’s battery meter.
> 
> L bud 11% and R but 1% with just over 4 hours use instead of claimed 11 hours (assuming 50% Vol as not stated).


Sounds like a potential defect.  Do you have the opportunity to return them?


----------



## DougD

chinmie said:


> [re Sony WF-1000XM4]
> 
> DSEE on?


Not for my 5.5 hr trips. The Sony description says DSEE is "technology developed by Sony, to enhance the sound quality of compressed audio files by restoring high-range sound removed by the compression process." All my tunes on the phone are FLACs, so I don't have any music files with lossy compression that DSEE is intended to improve.


----------



## chinmie

DougD said:


> Not for my 5.5 hr trips. The Sony description says DSEE is "technology developed by Sony, to enhance the sound quality of compressed audio files by restoring high-range sound removed by the compression process." All my tunes on the phone are FLACs, so I don't have any music files with lossy compression that DSEE is intended to improve.



5.5 hours to go from 100% to 0%? may i know did you use ANC and/or LDAC? if it's with ANC and LDAC off, that number is a bit underwhelming.. 

on DSEE, i suspect that it's just adding high freq harmonics on whatever material is playing, to add illusion that the music is of higher quality bitrate. i currently don't store flac files on my phone so i couldn't test it, but maybe you could help confirm this by listening to the same flac file and toggling the DSEE on and off, and see if there's a difference (especially on the high frequency).


----------



## DougD

chinmie said:


> 5.5 hours to go from 100% to 0%? may i know did you use ANC and/or LDAC? if it's with ANC and LDAC off, that number is a bit underwhelming..
> 
> on DSEE, i suspect that it's just adding high freq harmonics on whatever material is playing, to add illusion that the music is of higher quality bitrate. i currently don't store flac files on my phone so i couldn't test it, but maybe you could help confirm this by listening to the same flac file and toggling the DSEE on and off, and see if there's a difference (especially on the high frequency).


Sorry, I should have repeated that info from my prior post ... ANC on and LDAC all the time.

Obviously we are all different, but I don't have a common use case that says I need 10-12 hours of wireless music without an  hour break for a fast recharge in the case. 

I'll give DSEE a listen later tonight. If if affects really high frequencies, I may not hear it, I have old man hearing that tops out at 14.5 kHz.


----------



## helmutcheese

No it was OFF and some reviewers say it does effect battery to much and I posted the chart a few pages back so easy to see what Sony claim.


----------



## helmutcheese

jsmiller58 said:


> Sounds like a potential defect.  Do you have the opportunity to return them?




Yes returns a non issue with Amazon.


----------



## erockg

https://www.apple.com/us_epp-discounted_803103/shop/accessories/all/beats-featured


----------



## Slowhand

Anyone planning on ordering the Beats ($150)? Just checked out Flossy's video and I really like the form factor. Keen to hear impressions from someone here. 

I am currently debating whether to purchase the 1) XM4's, 2) MW08's or 3) Cambridge MT (home/office/walk) + Beats (gym). Leaning Sony so far.


----------



## tinyman392 (Jun 14, 2021)

150 bucks seems like a very low price.  I wonder how the ANC and SQ is compared to the APP.  8 hour battery life seems really good too.  Hopefully when Apple updates the APP they could get a bigger battery in there to match


----------



## Thesonofkrypton

Might look into the studio buds for running so I don’t have to get my XM4s all wet and sweaty lol

Waiting for reviews first on this one.


----------



## SilverEars (Jun 14, 2021)

I'm intrigued with the Studio Buds due to the shape looking ergonomic for running. Also the case is compact like APP.  Definitely don't like the Beats logo and the red color.   I'm more interested in these than the XM4 due to the ergonomics.  I don't like the bulk on the XM4.  As good ANC as APP would be a big bonus.


----------



## tinyman392

SilverEars said:


> I'm intrigued with the Studio Buds due to the shape looking ergonomic for running. Also the case is compact.  Definitely don't like the Beats logo and the red color.



Can’t help you with the Beats logo. But it’s available in black and white. I’m debating dropping some coin on the black one. 14 day return policy too. No monthly installment plan available like normal AirPods though.


----------



## Devodonaldson

helmutcheese said:


> The Sony's too dark for me, mostly bass no mid/highs, imagine listening to Mozart or Enya with a basshead's earphones even then it is muddy, I cannot get on with them.
> 
> Tried Sony EQ no EQ then same on different Music Players with their own EQ's and on PC and Android Mobile phone.
> 
> IMO earphones should not need tuned that is what an EQ is for, let the speakers play the sound as it is good or bad but I know they can be unforgiving with poor quality files so probably why they tune them many go for that V shape which does sound ok TBH.


Tip dependent. I bought epro horn shape tips, not the short tws ones. The upper mids and treble are shining through. Sony have a warmer Natural presence and the provided tips further enhance that. The Epro tips provide a more balanced sig giving better detail. Iems can often gain little editions from from specified tip materials


----------



## clerkpalmer

tinyman392 said:


> Can’t help you with the Beats logo. But it’s available in black and white. I’m debating dropping some coin on the black one. 14 day return policy too. No monthly installment plan available like normal AirPods though.


Agree the form factor looks like the biggest draw here.  Probably very nice for active use.


----------



## clerkpalmer

How are the CA MT when it comes to stability and fit? The rave reviews of SQ have me interested.


----------



## SilverEars (Jun 14, 2021)

With the Studio Buds, I'm hoping for it to have punchier bass, and larger sound stage, and just better sound than APP in general.  We'll see.


----------



## samandhi

clerkpalmer said:


> How are the CA MT when it comes to stability and fit? The rave reviews of SQ have me interested.


They have a shallow, wider tip, so if that is something you think would work for you, then they are very stable and very comfortable. If, however, like me, you prefer longer tips, and deeper insertion, you will have fitment issues until you replace the stock tips. I found the Spinfit CP360 to work best for my ears. They are pretty comfortable, and very stable. 

The other issue is if you try normal IEM tips they will be too long to make a connection in the charging box. This is why I ended up with the CP360. I prefer the Final Type E for the extra tackiness, but those make them too long to fit the charger. YMMV but I have also read that @miserybeforethemusic likes the Final TWS (like the Type E, especially made for TWS) for the MT.


----------



## clerkpalmer

samandhi said:


> They have a shallow, wider tip, so if that is something you think would work for you, then they are very stable and very comfortable. If, however, like me, you prefer longer tips, and deeper insertion, you will have fitment issues until you replace the stock tips. I found the Spinfit CP360 to work best for my ears. They are pretty comfortable, and very stable.
> 
> The other issue is if you try normal IEM tips they will be too long to make a connection in the charging box. This is why I ended up with the CP360. I prefer the Final Type E for the extra tackiness, but those make them too long to fit the charger. YMMV but I have also read that @miserybeforethemusic likes the Final TWS (like the Type E, especially made for TWS) for the MT.


Thanks. I ordered a set to try. Can always return them. High expectations given the praise around here.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

clerkpalmer said:


> How are the CA MT when it comes to stability and fit? The rave reviews of SQ have me interested.


Could have sworn you had one by now. It's significantly better once you figure out which wing and tip size works best for you. Using the Sedna Crystal and Small fins, they don't budge in my ears for hours on end. Worn this way, however, the bottom end of the bud _looks_ like it's protruding more than it should. That's intentional; fully inserted, the microphone would be obscured and you probably wouldn't sound too great over the phone. The Final TWS tips that @samandhi mentioned also work very well, though they may not be as bike-friendly once sweat starts building up.

SQ, relative to some of your top-tier TWS, may be a little lacking and is a slight step behind the ADV (in my opinion), particularly when it comes to the way each set represents midrange content. That being said, I think the MT's features more than make up for the gap.

For what it's worth (and I'm not sure how much of the in-between I can discuss), I have been working with Cambridge to get added onto the beta testing team for MT firmware updates. It's a slow burn, but making headway and I figured there would be a pretty significant value add for being a liaison between here and the Cambridge dev team. While I haven't signed any NDAs at the moment, the nature of my day job has taught me the importance of "company confidential" information. That means if I don't answer some of your questions right away, it's probably because:

I'm not allowed to talk about it yet
I have reached out to the dev team for an answer and haven't yet received one
You have managed to ask a question/presented a problem that has caused all of us to scratch our collective heads
It's a fantastic opportunity, for which I'm tremendously grateful, but I want to do this right and have no idea how long it will last. Do remember I still have a day job as well.


----------



## bladefd

C_Lindbergh said:


> Yea I agree, the Melomania touch kinda reminds me of the Shure Aonic 50, perfect SQ-wise/comfort, that pushes way above its price tag, but with a lackluster technical experience.
> 
> If CA can launch the next iteration without any bugs/connection issues with decent ANC-functionallity and Bluetooth LC3... I'd buy it in an instant.  The case itself wasn't really that great build quality wise, I wouldn't mind a slight price increase compared if they gave us ANC and a better case.


It would probably pop up the price to around high-200s like the xm4. I don't think CA was targeting that audience with the MT. They probably wanted to challenge the mid-range TWS in the 100s range. If they didn't have so many issues on launch, I think they might have won that below $200 range easily. 

Sq and comfort on MT were as good as earbuds in the mid to high-200s range imo. I tried the Sony xm3, AZ70 and cx400bt (which has similar sound quality to the MTW2) - I thought MT beat all 3 in sound quality and comfort department _easily_. Cx400bt might be the cheapest, but MT also had more features & ipx4 over the cx400bt to be worth the extra $30 back in January.


----------



## helmutcheese (Jun 14, 2021)

Devodonaldson said:


> Tip dependent. I bought epro horn shape tips, not the short tws ones. The upper mids and treble are shining through. Sony have a warmer Natural presence and the provided tips further enhance that. The Epro tips provide a more balanced sig giving better detail. Iems can often gain little editions from from specified tip materials



I have tried various tips (would help if it was lack of bass) but nothing is going make these sound decent to me and longer tips make them stick out at to so not ideal.

All other issue esp. battery they are a no go for ,me and nice now real users comments from buyers are appearing on Amazon UK/US not YT reviewers some of whom just say anything to get the views.

Those tip are new to me and 14mm so good for my large canals but not in stock UK and I am not going to order from US just to try fix these Sony's as I know it will be a waste of time/money.


----------



## bladefd

clerkpalmer said:


> How are the CA MT when it comes to stability and fit? The rave reviews of SQ have me interested.


Very stable with the fins on, but I don't find the fins comfortable. I use MT without the fins. Still very stable without the fins but not something to go workout with. I don't workout with them and use them in the house or while lying down late at night listening to music when family is asleep (I'm a nighthawk!). If you want to workout with them, best to use with the fins.

Fit is great with or without the fins for me.


----------



## EMINENT

Devodonaldson said:


> Tip dependent. I bought epro horn shape tips, not the short tws ones. The upper mids and treble are shining through. Sony have a warmer Natural presence and the provided tips further enhance that. The Epro tips provide a more balanced sig giving better detail. Iems can often gain little editions from from specified tip materials


May I ask which ones of these epro's and size you are referring to? And, do they still fit in the case?


----------



## rhsauer

SilverEars said:


> With the Studio Buds, I'm hoping for it to have punchier bass, and larger sound stage, and just better sound than APP in general.  We'll see.



Interestingly, the description on Apple's website makes no mention of the W1 or H1 chip, and it says "One-touch pairing requires iOS 14.6 or later," which suggests there is no such chip.  That means this earphone may not have (or probably doesn't have) some of the associated Apple ecosystem benefits, such as automatic pairing with other Apple devices, automatic switching, automatic spatial audio, head tracking, etc.  On the other hand, it's a Class 1 device, so range should be good.


----------



## SilverEars

rhsauer said:


> Interestingly, the description on Apple's website makes no mention of the W1 or H1 chip, and it says "One-touch pairing requires iOS 14.6 or later," which suggests there is no such chip.  That means this earphone may not have (or probably doesn't have) some of the associated Apple ecosystem benefits, such as automatic pairing with other Apple devices, automatic switching, automatic spatial audio, head tracking, etc.  On the other hand, it's a Class 1 device, so range should be good.


They are opening these up for Android users as well, so you are correct.  None of those Apple ecosystem perks.    For an Android user, difference isn't that significant.  You get the software app.  They could have put in the W1 or H1 chip and still provide the app for the Android users.  With the APP, Android users can still use it, but they just don't have the app.


----------



## erockg

rhsauer said:


> Interestingly, the description on Apple's website makes no mention of the W1 or H1 chip, and it says "One-touch pairing requires iOS 14.6 or later," which suggests there is no such chip.  That means this earphone may not have (or probably doesn't have) some of the associated Apple ecosystem benefits, such as automatic pairing with other Apple devices, automatic switching, automatic spatial audio, head tracking, etc.  On the other hand, it's a Class 1 device, so range should be good.


Yeah, they did this to eat into the Android market.  There's a Beats app for Android users.  The APP2 are rumored to be stemless and will have all the above.  But who knows when they'll be released.  I just bought the Beats to test out with my iPhone/Apple gear.  We shall see...


----------



## tinyman392

rhsauer said:


> Interestingly, the description on Apple's website makes no mention of the W1 or H1 chip, and it says "One-touch pairing requires iOS 14.6 or later," which suggests there is no such chip.  That means this earphone may not have (or probably doesn't have) some of the associated Apple ecosystem benefits, such as automatic pairing with other Apple devices, automatic switching, automatic spatial audio, head tracking, etc.  On the other hand, it's a Class 1 device, so range should be good.


I'm curious what they mean by "one-touch pairing."  But I'm not going to make any assumptions about what they do and don't have until someone tests it themselves (in and out of the Apple ecosystem).


----------



## erockg

erockg said:


> The Earin's are great.  I've had every generation.  I'm not an open earbuds guy, but these are cool.  Some days when I'm out at a park with my toddler I leave them in to listen to baseball games or music.  I can hear everything around me, including his screams of joy while running or pain when he falls.  I forget they're in, like today.  Was sitting at home and realized they were still in my ears.  Super tiny.  Case is tiny.  Not the best sounding unless you crank them, but if you're looking for a low profile, easily unseen, able to use each earbud independently earbud -- they're worth a shot.





erockg said:


> The Earin's are great.  I've had every generation.  I'm not an open earbuds guy, but these are cool.  Some days when I'm out at a park with my toddler I leave them in to listen to baseball games or music.  I can hear everything around me, including his screams of joy while running or pain when he falls.  I forget they're in, like today.  Was sitting at home and realized they were still in my ears.  Super tiny.  Case is tiny.  Not the best sounding unless you crank them, but if you're looking for a low profile, easily unseen, able to use each earbud independently earbud -- they're worth a shot.


@zeebee45 you might want to check out the new Beats Studio Buds announced today by Apple instead of the Earin A-3.  Better seal for better sound and oddly enough they look to have very suspiciously similar form factor.  Earin's are prob smaller though.  I'm definitely going to try the Beats.


----------



## SilverEars

erockg said:


> Yeah, they did this to eat into the Android market.  There's a Beats app for Android users.  The APP2 are rumored to be stemless and will have all the above.  But who knows when they'll be released.  I just bought the Beats to test out with my iPhone/Apple gear.  We shall see...


I don't really mind being stem-less.  I really don't like the look of the stem, but I did find it useful with the squeeze buttons on the stem.  If they can keep it at the size of the APP without a stem with better battery life performance, that would be feat I can only see Apple achieving (If I look at how bulky Sony and Sennheiser ear-pieces are).  

Question is, how will they implement that button in place of what the stem used to do?


----------



## erockg

SilverEars said:


> I don't really mind being stem-less.  I really don't like the look of the stem, but I did find it useful with the squeeze buttons on the stem.  If they can keep it at the size of the APP without a stem with better battery life performance, that would be feat I can only see Apple achieving (If I look at how bulky Sony and Sennheiser ear-pieces are).
> 
> Question is, how will they implement that button in place of what the stem used to do?


I LOVE stemless.  Hate the Q-tip look.  The Earin A-3 look like the Beats but with a touch pad for controls.  Beats have a button where the B is that you press.  I'll bet the APP have a touch sensor like the first and second gen.  Or who know, they may elect to not reinvent the wheel and just keep the ugly stem   It's Apple, they always do what they want and folks who drank the Kool Aid follow along.


----------



## tinyman392

SilverEars said:


> I don't really mind being stem-less.  I really don't like the look of the stem, but I did find it useful with the squeeze buttons on the stem.  If they can keep it at the size of the APP without a stem with better battery life performance, that would be feat I can only see Apple achieving (If I look at how bulky Sony and Sennheiser ear-pieces are).
> 
> Question is, how will they implement that button in place of what the stem used to do?


That's a very good question.  I actually really liked how Apple did the touch controls for the APP since it was pressure based with feedback.  With touch controls I always have difficulty determining where the touch surface starts and ends; accidental touches also become a thing too.  I am curious how the controls will work with the Beats.  Though the way the Beats work may not be related to how any update to the APP will be; I'm unsure how connected the Beats audio team is to the Apple audio team as Apple has a history of keeping their teams separate.


----------



## SilverEars (Jun 14, 2021)

tinyman392 said:


> That's a very good question.  I actually really liked how Apple did the touch controls for the APP since it was pressure based with feedback.  With touch controls I always have difficulty determining where the touch surface starts and ends; accidental touches also become a thing too.  I am curious how the controls will work with the Beats.  Though the way the Beats work may not be related to how any update to the APP will be; I'm unsure how connected the Beats audio team is to the Apple audio team as Apple has a history of keeping their teams separate.


Also, I saw on the review of Beats Studio Buds that it's a press button.  I don't like pressing in an iem with a button because it may shift the way the iem is inserted in terms of fit.  That's what I liked about squeezing the stem.  You don't push the iem, but only squeeze stem.

To me, it seems like Beats and Apple have different design teams.  The reviews are saying that the ANC isn't as good as APP.  This might be the result of different teams involved.

It is also $100 cheaper.


----------



## tinyman392

SilverEars said:


> Also, I saw on the review of Beats Studio Buds that it's a press button.  I don't like pressing in an iem with a button because it may shift the way the iem is inserted in terms of fit.  That's what I liked about squeezing the stem.  You don't push the iem, but only squeeze stem.
> 
> To me, it seems like Beats and Apple have different design teams.  The reviews are saying that the ANC isn't as good as APP.  This might be the result of different teams involved.
> 
> It is also $100 cheaper.


I would assume (granted with no real good proof) that the teams are separate.  I was curious about the ANC performance, but I also wasn't expecting it to be as good as the APP based on price alone.  If it was as good, I'd question the SQ or some other corner that needed to be cut to meet the 150 dollar price point.


----------



## gocam

Luke Skywalker said:


> Hey I’m glad you like them. I tested them using iPhone 12 Pro Max AAC.
> 
> When I tried the included foam tips, the sound was really quiet. Even with my favorite tips (the Acoustone’s), it didn’t get very loud and I’m not even really into loud music.




Listening again over weekend and I think the 10s keep getting better, no problem at all with volume, such a fun listen and I've gotten a good foam fit and using wings now. I wonder if you had a defective set or if they just sound worse on IPhone vs Android ?


----------



## Devodonaldson

EMINENT said:


> May I ask which ones of these epro's and size you are referring to? And, do they still fit in the case?


epro horn shaped tips ep01, 4.7mm inner. blueish package, 2 pairs. I'm generally a medium in most tips. i get a good seal, good treble response, as well as low end. this case will fit most tips seeing as the tips that come with the xm4 are not tws specific tips. the case is deep.


----------



## Luke Skywalker

gocam said:


> Listening again over weekend and I think the 10s keep getting better, no problem at all with volume, such a fun listen and I've gotten a good foam fit and using wings now. I wonder if you had a defective set or if they just sound worse on IPhone vs Android ?


Good question... amazon accepted the return, no questions asked so I’m glad I gave them a try.

My next little project is to get a Fiio UTSW3 and connect it to my JH Lola’s. Should make A pretty wicked TWS setup. 

Only thing is I had to order adapters to go from 4-pin to MMCX which were like $70 or $80 with international shipping. and who knows how long it’ll take for those to arrive.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

Luke Skywalker said:


> Good question... amazon accepted the return, no questions asked so I’m glad I gave them a try.
> 
> My next little project is to get a Fiio UTSW3 and connect it to my JH Lola’s. Should make A pretty wicked TWS setup.
> 
> Only thing is I had to order adapters to go from 4-pin to MMCX which were like $70 or $80 with international shipping. and who knows how long it’ll take for those to arrive.


If it's coming 4px, it arrives on the back of a very intoxicated dolphin. ETA will be about seven weeks.


----------



## Luke Skywalker (Jun 14, 2021)

miserybeforethemusic said:


> If it's coming 4px, it arrives on the back of a very intoxicated dolphin. ETA will be about seven weeks.


Hahaha

I’d thought about getting a mid-range (“cheaper”) pair of IEMs for this, but I’ve wanted a pair of TOTL customs for years.


----------



## EMINENT

Luke Skywalker said:


> Good question... amazon accepted the return, no questions asked so I’m glad I gave them a try.
> 
> My next little project is to get a Fiio UTSW3 and connect it to my JH Lola’s. Should make A pretty wicked TWS setup.
> 
> Only thing is I had to order adapters to go from 4-pin to MMCX which were like $70 or $80 with international shipping. and who knows how long it’ll take for those to arrive.


I wonder how much the UTSW3 would bottleneck a high end iem like a U12T or Odin.

Anyone have this experience?


----------



## DougD (Jun 15, 2021)

DougD said:


> I'll give DSEE a listen later tonight. If if affects really high frequencies, I may not hear it, I have old man hearing that tops out at 14.5 kHz.


report on DSEE listening, on the Sony WF-1000xm4s: 

(1) If you have the equalizer on, that pre-empts DSEE, per the Sony doco.

(2) I primarily listen to files on the phone's SD card, all of which are FLACs of various bit-depths and sampling rates. Even with 16-44, i.e., std CD-resolution, I can't detect any differences with DSEE on vs off.

(3) I can't get streaming music ... which presumably is lossy ... to keep playing while I switch to the Sony app to turn the DSEE on/off. Probably ignorance, or possibly my playback device & its setting, but either way, I can't test the effect of DSEE on lossy streamed music.


----------



## SharkSkin

The Beats Studio Pro weren't really on my radar, but at $150, I'm actually kind of intrigued. I've actually been using the Beats Flex for about a month now and they aren't mind blowing, but they aren't all that bad either. It has a pretty mainstream V-shaped sound, but it does it well. Certainly not anything like what most people described as the Beats sound in the past.


----------



## Devodonaldson

DougD said:


> report on DSEE listening, on the Sony WF-1000xm4s:
> 
> (1) If you have the equalizer on, that pre-empts DSEE, per the Sony doco.
> 
> ...


Not all streamed music is lossy. Qobuz is 16/44 up to 24/192


----------



## DougD

Devodonaldson said:


> Not all streamed music is lossy. Qobuz is 16/44 up to 24/192


True. But I don't have Qobuz. I was streaming a YouTube video on the assumption that would be lossy. But as I said, I couldn't compare DSEE on vs off. So it's a moot issue in this case. 

Someone else will have to try.


----------



## Ultrainferno

The HiBy WH2 is the first TWS IEM with LDAC support and it's officially launching today on Kickstarter. The version we looked at is the one with the double BA drivers, and it impresses.

https://www.headfonia.com/hiby-wh2-review/


----------



## Caipirina

Anyone else thinks that the BSB (beats studio buds) look kinda cheap? Especially that weird shade of red? 
but I dig the small form factor and when I get a chance I’d love to try. And I really hope for more colors down there line.


----------



## senorbroom

Caipirina said:


> Anyone else thinks that the BSB (beats studio buds) look kinda cheap? Especially that weird shade of red?
> but I dig the small form factor and when I get a chance I’d love to try. And I really hope for more colors down there line.


Yup, definitely. The red is not a good look.


----------



## Luke Skywalker

Just bought the 2BA HiBy WH2 on Kickstarter 

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/844915658/hiby-wh2-pioneering-true-wireless-earphones-with-ldac


----------



## helmutcheese (Jun 15, 2021)

Soundpeat Sonic Pro​Dual BA Drivers, Wireless Charging and 2nd video claims they are 3-4 click higher volume the he non Pro.


----------



## clerkpalmer

Luke Skywalker said:


> Just bought the 2BA HiBy WH2 on Kickstarter
> 
> https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/844915658/hiby-wh2-pioneering-true-wireless-earphones-with-ldac


The 2BA looks nice. I considered it but am passing. I hate Kickstarter and why are these not releasing until August (which means August 31st).  They’ve been advertising these for over a month. It’s too hard to put money down and wait two to three months. There could be a dozen new models by then. Patience is not my thing.


----------



## Luke Skywalker

clerkpalmer said:


> The 2BA looks nice. I considered it but am passing. I hate Kickstarter and why are these not releasing until August (which means August 31st).  They’ve been advertising these for over a month. It’s too hard to put money down and wait two to three months. There could be a dozen new models by then. Patience is not my thing.


Yeah, I know what you mean.  I backed a gallium usb-c charger months and months ago and I still haven't gotten it.  The email said, "If HiBy WH2: Pioneering True Wireless Earphones with LDAC reaches its funding goal, your card will be charged HK$ 929.00 on July 15, 2021 at 9:03 am."


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

clerkpalmer said:


> The 2BA looks nice. I considered it but am passing. I hate Kickstarter and why are these not releasing until August (which means August 31st).  They’ve been advertising these for over a month. It’s too hard to put money down and wait two to three months. There could be a dozen new models by then. Patience is not my thing.


They're going to wind up in hot water for that "first LDAC" claim, then, as the XM4 are already on the market.

For some reason, I can't just impulse-buy these. $125ish for the 2-BA model is more than fair, but I'm not excited about these. Must be because I already have the WH3, so please don't let me sway your decisions.


----------



## clerkpalmer

miserybeforethemusic said:


> They're going to wind up in hot water for that "first LDAC" claim, then, as the XM4 are already on the market.
> 
> For some reason, I can't just impulse-buy these. $125ish for the 2-BA model is more than fair, but I'm not excited about these. Must be because I already have the WH3, so please don't let me sway your decisions.


Same boat. These will go in the pile with every other average set of tws I have amassed.

Separately, is anyone running the moondrop aria with a BT20s? If so, how’s the synergy? Apologies if this has been covered already.


----------



## jsmiller58

clerkpalmer said:


> The 2BA looks nice. I considered it but am passing. I hate Kickstarter and why are these not releasing until August (which means August 31st).  They’ve been advertising these for over a month. It’s too hard to put money down and wait two to three months. There could be a dozen new models by then. Patience is not my thing.


I have a largely losing record with campaigns I have backed on Kickstarter…. The products never actually ship (not worried about that here), or I am displeased with the final result.  I would love to see more reviews and actual customer testimonials.  I may buy the WH2 in the future, but I will wait.


----------



## HipHopScribe

miserybeforethemusic said:


> They're going to wind up in hot water for that "first LDAC" claim, then, as the XM4 are already on the market.



In hot water with who? Realistically no one is gonna go after them for that type of false claim


----------



## clerkpalmer

HipHopScribe said:


> In hot water with who? Realistically no one is gonna go after them for that type of false claim


I’ll bet Sony gives them a c&d letter. So ludicrous. Particularly since these aren’t launching until August.


----------



## HipHopScribe

clerkpalmer said:


> I’ll bet Sony gives them a c&d letter. So ludicrous. Particularly since these aren’t launching until August.



Seriously doubt it, Sony is making money off the licensing fee on these and Sony benefits just in marketing whenever new LDAC products are released. It would be counterproductive for them to go after Hiby.


----------



## tiagopinto

DigDub said:


> I just got the M&D mw08. I can understand why some say these are a muddy bass mess while some reviewers say these are the best tws earbuds that exists. The fit is very important. If they are jammed too tight in the ears, they give off very boomy and undefined bass. The stock tips are also quite thick, which adds to the boomy bass. I put on some some spinfit cp100 tips and the sound is very clear and balanced now. Breath taking sound quality.



These keep tempting me. I love the looks.

Do you have the MT? How does the sound compare?


----------



## miserybeforethemusic (Jun 15, 2021)

HipHopScribe said:


> Seriously doubt it, Sony is making money off the licensing fee on these and Sony benefits just in marketing whenever new LDAC products are released. It would be counterproductive for them to go after Hiby.


I hope so, but it wouldn't be the first time Sony went after someone for claiming "first to" on something.

For me, personally, though? It's another docking of points against HiBy. Even if Sony may or may not be going after them, the claim isn't accurate and it seems every reviewer wants to make the same statement. I can't tell if that's coming from the reviewers or if HiBy asked them to say that specifically and, since the whole thing even comes up into question, it doesn't sit right with me.

_Edit: let's not forget Sony were the guys who went after an emulator company over a screenshot. Not even the software, just the screenshot: https://h2o.law.harvard.edu/cases/5198_


jsmiller58 said:


> I have a largely losing record with campaigns I have backed on Kickstarter…. The products never actually ship (not worried about that here), or I am displeased with the final result.  I would love to see more reviews and actual customer testimonials.  I may buy the WH2 in the future, but I will wait.


Yep. Our family is still "waiting" on campaigns we funded back in 2014. HiBy's had more successes than others, but I just recovered from the Between Pro incident; not ready to go through that again.


----------



## DigDub

tiagopinto said:


> These keep tempting me. I love the looks.
> 
> Do you have the MT? How does the sound compare?


I do not have the MT. The mw08 is pretty neutral in the mids and highs, with an elevated mid bass which gives an overall warm sound signature. The sound can be altered quite significantly with different tips and responds very well to EQ. The bluetooth connection is the strongest of any tws buds I have so far, it doesn't cut off at all where my other tws buds had difficulty in certain "blind spots" in the house. All the controls are available on the buds, so it's very convenient to use. If m&d can implement an EQ in the app, it would be nice.


----------



## rhsauer

I just noticed a firmware update on for my MW08's.  It took forever (and a couple tries) to complete.  Does anyone know what it fixes/adds?  I didn't see a change log.


----------



## bladefd (Jun 15, 2021)

Luke Skywalker said:


> Just bought the 2BA HiBy WH2 on Kickstarter
> 
> https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/844915658/hiby-wh2-pioneering-true-wireless-earphones-with-ldac


6hr battery life and they tested it with sbc, not even aac. With LDAC, it probably plummets to 3hrs. Even for $25, I wouldn't touch that tbh. I was very interested but as soon as I saw that, I closed the window and unsubscribed to HiBy newsletter. Maybe the next release.


----------



## bladefd

clerkpalmer said:


> I’ll bet Sony gives them a c&d letter. So ludicrous. Particularly since these aren’t launching until August.


HiBy were the first to announce their LDAC TWS though. They announced them like a full month before the xm4 were announced.

I expected Sony to launch with LDAC because it made no sense to me otherwise. Sony would never let someone else get rights to their codec, and they end up not using it in theirs releasing soon at the time.

HiBy should have rushed and put up the Kickstarter page in May to capitalize off it. I bet their agreement with Sony was that they couldn't open their Kickstarter page until June 15, and Sony knew they would have the xm4 out by then. It doesn't really damage Sony at all. In fact, it might help them hype up LDAC couple months in advance before suddenly releasing the xm4 and getting those excited for HiBy LDAC to buy the hype into xm4. Brilliant marketing if you ask me!


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

bladefd said:


> 6hr battery life and they tested it with sbc, not even aac. With LDAC, it probably plummets to 3hrs. Even for $25, I wouldn't touch that tbh. I was very interested but as soon as I saw that, I closed the window and unsubscribed to HiBy newsletter. Maybe the next release.


Also worth mentioning that aptX is _not_ included, which means it's either LDAC/UAT or AAC/SBC. Just caught that in the comments section.






And I don't say this to dog-pile on HiBy, but I'd hate for someone to get a pair, find out LDAC doesn't work for them (or the battery is insufficient), and then be stuck with AAC/SBC due to a lack of alternatives.


----------



## Luke Skywalker

clerkpalmer said:


> Same boat. These will go in the pile with every other average set of tws I have amassed.
> 
> Separately, is anyone running the moondrop aria with a BT20s? If so, how’s the synergy? Apologies if this has been covered already.


hmm… I didn’t know about the BT20’s… any thoughts on whether those, the UTSW3, or iBasso CF-01s would be best with JH Lola’s?


----------



## Luke Skywalker

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Also worth mentioning that aptX is _not_ included, which means it's either LDAC/UAT or AAC/SBC. Just caught that in the comments section.
> 
> 
> 
> And I don't say this to dog-pile on HiBy, but I'd hate for someone to get a pair, find out LDAC doesn't work for them (or the battery is insufficient), and then be stuck with AAC/SBC due to a lack of alternatives.


Well I’ll be able to tell you guys that as soon as mine arrive 

i want to use them in LDAC mode with my Nvidia shield for watching movies


----------



## bladefd

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Also worth mentioning that aptX is _not_ included, which means it's either LDAC/UAT or AAC/SBC. Just caught that in the comments section.
> 
> 
> 
> And I don't say this to dog-pile on HiBy, but I'd hate for someone to get a pair, find out LDAC doesn't work for them (or the battery is insufficient), and then be stuck with AAC/SBC due to a lack of alternatives.


Yeah, they support LDAC, aac, uat, and sbc. I believe sbc uses the least battery of any of the codecs and sounds the worst. They are advertising LDAC and 6hrs battery life, but you have to go out of your way to search through the Q&A to find out the 6hrs is with sbc. They don't mention how much battery life is with LDAC or even AAC. They must know that if they were to advertise that, it would kill their launch instantly. I bet most people who sign up for the Kickstarter campaign will not go searching through the Q&A or know that LDAC is a battery killer unlike sbc.


----------



## helmutcheese

Good points, I looked at them due to above post on Kickstarter (never seen them before this but know the band) and saw battery life and knew it would not be LDAC and seen no mention of any aptX range of codecs so shut the webpage.


----------



## helmutcheese

Luke Skywalker said:


> Well I’ll be able to tell you guys that as soon as mine arrive
> 
> i want to use them in LDAC mode with my Nvidia shield for watching movies


LDAC has the highest latency of them all due to it also the highest bitrate, you may be ok if you are not too far away.

I meant to test the other night with Sony WF-1000XM4 but forgot, I think it did test with my Fiio LCB-T2 when I got them.


----------



## bladefd

Yup, looks like it's a bit over 3hrs with LDAC. We don't know what the listening volume was so that could impact the battery life further for some people. TWS typically also begins to drop in battery life efficiency after some time.


> Officially HiBy explains there will be 4 hours of playback time when using LDAC with their software optimization. Testing on LDAC connection mode there is still power after more than 3 hours of continuous listening, which isn’t much but the sound quality is quite consistent even when the battery is lower.


https://headfonics.com/hiby-wh2-review/


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

Luke Skywalker said:


> hmm… I didn’t know about the BT20’s… any thoughts on whether those, the UTSW3, or iBasso CF-01s would be best with JH Lola’s?


It's going to be a matter of impedance-matching, probably. The CF01 are right in the 20-ish ohm nominal area, which makes them a great pairing for the P1. At 16 ohms nominal for the Lola (plus whatever's introduced via the adapter, it probably puts you in a similar category. I'd say if you're already connecting up a $1200 pair of IEMs to these things, might as well max out the adapter's potential while you're at it. My recommendation goes to the iBasso, but I think it goes without saying that I'm particularly biased in that aspect and haven't tried the Fiio or TRN models.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic (Jun 15, 2021)

No way...this just arrived. Am I being Punk'd right now? Seriously gave up expecting these to show up.





Don't know if further unboxing is necessary. Pack-ins are pretty sparse and this gives all the illusions of being a TWS1 that's been mildly refreshed, given some matte coating on the case, and sent on its merry way. You'd be hard-pressed to tell these apart from the originals.

What is impressive, however, is that these still had a charge when I opened them. They've been sitting in transit for two months, so I'm amazed they had any charge left whatsoever.





On the left are my 7-year old daughter's daily drivers, in desperate need of a cleaning. On the right, well, you get the point. And, yes, I cleaned them. Was surprisingly easy:






Granted, I don't have high hopes for these otherwise, but at least now I can finally test aptX Adaptive and see if it's the codec or the implementation that's been making things so rough for the NFPs.


----------



## LordToneeus

clerkpalmer said:


> Same boat. These will go in the pile with every other average set of tws I have amassed.
> 
> Separately, is anyone running the moondrop aria with a BT20s? If so, how’s the synergy? Apologies if this has been covered already.


I am, and I love the two together.  Unshakable fit with zero complaints in the sound department (including no floor hiss - though I am working out and blasting metal).  I do have to crank the volume on these.


----------



## Luke Skywalker

miserybeforethemusic said:


> It's going to be a matter of impedance-matching, probably. The CF01 are right in the 20-ish ohm nominal area, which makes them a great pairing for the P1. At 16 ohms nominal for the Lola (plus whatever's introduced via the adapter, it probably puts you in a similar category. I'd say if you're already connecting up a $1200 pair of IEMs to these things, might as well max out the adapter's potential while you're at it. My recommendation goes to the iBasso, but I think it goes without saying that I'm particularly biased in that aspect and haven't tried the Fiio or TRN models.


makes sense now that you explained it   I’ll try the iBasso’s!  Hopefully someone comes out with adapters with LDAC, AptxHD, etc


----------



## jant71

Hadn't really noticed it. I mentioned the new Aviot TE-D01t and that it was an ANC model but they seem to be the first to hit the 18 hour per charge battery mark. 60 with the case. Not with ANC of course they say 20-30% less for ANC. Still 12 or maybe more with ANC. They say they can be turned off so you can leave the case at home   Pretty interesting with a new 10mm driver, ANC, Qi plus that battery life and the looks.


----------



## helmutcheese (Jun 15, 2021)

https://www.avsforum.com/threads/cl...less-noise-cancelling-earbuds-review.3204305/


----------



## Nito8

Hello everyone, 
between Melomania Touch and Oppo Enco X, which are the best in terms of sound quality?  Thank you 😉


----------



## Canabuc

Aevum said:


> Im split, the N400 sounds awesome, but the lack of multipoint, the issues with the problematic contacts (got sick of pulling them out and them being dead), the iffy controls, and the ANC is next to useless.
> 
> Bought the Huawei freebuds pro, sounds less nice, ANC works better, has multipoint connection seamless. between PC and my cellphone at work
> 
> for now, i think that the n400 for free time and the freebuds for work.


Love mine. EQ'd them on my Samsung and use Dolby Atmos and they sound great.
The controls fit ANC and wireless charging all work great as does the multipoint.


----------



## Luchyres

Well, I finally arrived in MA where I had the XM4 waiting for me - and I'm honestly a little underwhelmed by the sound. On some tracks, and particularly voice calls, there's a bit of a hint of a metallic resonance (think the sound you hear when you're talking loudly near a large metal hollow object like a clothes dryer). I'm still going to play with them and the EQ, and see if the "slight crackle" goes away for other phone call types (other than VOIP) but my hunch is these will not make the cut for me. Haven't played with ANC yet, but the least important to me after sound and call mic quality. 

So, now I'm eyeing the Nuarl N10 Pro and JBL Tour Pro+ (now on Amazon). The JBL Club Pro+ were my favs until I lost them. 

Does anyone have any hands on experience with the new JBL Tour Pro+? Reviews I've found sound promising albeit not overly enthusiastic. 

Alternatively, anyone have any other strong strong suggestions? I appreciate solid deep bass that is crisp/resolute, am a bit treble sensitive, but like sparkle. I've eyed the CA MT but didn't love the stories of touch/connection woes. Thank you!


----------



## jsmiller58

Luchyres said:


> Well, I finally arrived in MA where I had the XM4 waiting for me - and I'm honestly a little underwhelmed by the sound. On some tracks, and particularly voice calls, there's a bit of a hint of a metallic resonance (think the sound you hear when you're talking loudly near a large metal hollow object like a clothes dryer). I'm still going to play with them and the EQ, and see if the "slight crackle" goes away for other phone call types (other than VOIP) but my hunch is these will not make the cut for me. Haven't played with ANC yet, but the least important to me after sound and call mic quality.
> 
> So, now I'm eyeing the Nuarl N10 Pro and JBL Tour Pro+ (now on Amazon). The JBL Club Pro+ were my favs until I lost them.
> 
> ...


I also hear that same “metallic “ sound on male vocals. I cannot seem to EQ that away. Nonetheless the whole package makes ese a keeper, for me.


----------



## Joe Bloggs (Jun 16, 2021)

.


----------



## Joe Bloggs

miserybeforethemusic said:


> I hope so, but it wouldn't be the first time Sony went after someone for claiming "first to" on something.
> 
> For me, personally, though? It's another docking of points against HiBy. Even if Sony may or may not be going after them, the claim isn't accurate and it seems every reviewer wants to make the same statement. I can't tell if that's coming from the reviewers or if HiBy asked them to say that specifically and, since the whole thing even comes up into question, it doesn't sit right with me.
> 
> ...


For all the reviewers, it is nothing but the truth.  Did any of them receive a working TWS LDAC sample from Sony before they got it from us?  Would they not have written about it first if they had?


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

Joe Bloggs said:


> For all the reviewers, it is nothing but the truth.  Did any of them receive a working TWS LDAC sample from Sony before they got it from us?  Would they not have written about it first if they had?


If you want to be technical, the reviewers did, but that's beside the point. Consumers have a set of Sony LDAC TWS in hand. HiBy owners do not. So who's benefiting from the claim? Not the consumer.

It's a dubious claim and it seems either your review team or HiBy are trying to make it the centerpoint for marketing. You can either be upset with me for making the observation or make the recommendation to your advertising team to reconsider their marketing angle. Surely you have selling points that aren't LDAC compatibility and perhaps those are a better focus.


----------



## xSDMx

jsmiller58 said:


> I also hear that same “metallic “ sound on male vocals. I cannot seem to EQ that away. Nonetheless the whole package makes ese a keeper, for me.


I knew I wasn't going mad! I hit this on day1 and ultimately ended up returning my XM4. I can't repro on any other audio equipment I own and I listen to a ton of podcasts, so this was a deal breaker for me, personally.


----------



## Caipirina

Luke Skywalker said:


> Just bought the 2BA HiBy WH2 on Kickstarter
> 
> https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/844915658/hiby-wh2-pioneering-true-wireless-earphones-with-ldac


Is it just me or do they look an awful lot like the Mifo o7?


----------



## Alphasoixante

Caipirina said:


> Is it just me or do they look an awful lot like the Mifo o7?


Yes, that's what I thought they were at first glance.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic (Jun 16, 2021)

Alphasoixante said:


> Yes, that's what I thought they were at first glance.









Oh jeez, you're not kidding. Would expect tuning to be drastically different because here's the listening notes from one review of the O7:



> Honestly, they are nothing special. I think where they get a reputation for good sound is many unfamiliar people with earphones, and the technologies are moving from a cheap set of dynamic driver earphones. It may be the first time they are heading a balanced armature, and the difference is quite stark.
> 
> Compared to other amazing wireless earphones I have tried in the past year, they don’t even come close. Something like the Sabbat E12 at half the price costs half as much as the Mifo 07. Earphones from KZ, Creative, and Anker are all on par and cheaper. Finally, you get the amazing Newmine R9-4, which will slaughter them sonically.
> 
> The sound is relatively consumerish. It does have the clarity associated with a balanced armature, and the highs have a decent extension but they lack a lot of low-end punch and aren’t competitive enough for me to waste time going into depth. Side by side, I preferred the sound of the Mifo 05 over this.



I'm also putting my money where my mouth is: ordered a set of each WH2. If I'm going to judge a product, might as well do it from first-hand experience.

They're also eerily similar to the TFZ X3, so it's probably a COTS shell:


----------



## PixelSquish

xSDMx said:


> I knew I wasn't going mad! I hit this on day1 and ultimately ended up returning my XM4. I can't repro on any other audio equipment I own and I listen to a ton of podcasts, so this was a deal breaker for me, personally.


That's interesting. I listen to a good amount of tracks with male vocalists and have not heard this. I have watched YouTube videos of product reviews, by men, with these buds, for probably close to two hours, and have not noticed anything out of the ordinary. Weird.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic (Jun 16, 2021)

Luchyres said:


> Well, I finally arrived in MA where I had the XM4 waiting for me - and I'm honestly a little underwhelmed by the sound. On some tracks, and particularly voice calls, there's a bit of a hint of a metallic resonance (think the sound you hear when you're talking loudly near a large metal hollow object like a clothes dryer). I'm still going to play with them and the EQ, and see if the "slight crackle" goes away for other phone call types (other than VOIP) but my hunch is these will not make the cut for me. Haven't played with ANC yet, but the least important to me after sound and call mic quality.
> 
> So, now I'm eyeing the Nuarl N10 Pro and JBL Tour Pro+ (now on Amazon). The JBL Club Pro+ were my favs until I lost them.
> 
> ...


Consider the ADV M5 for a little less? Don't have any experience with the Tour Pro+, but do have the Club, so I'm familiar with the sound signature you're considering. I think the ADV would fit the bill. Pretty barebones as far as additional features go (ANC/Hearthrough/etc), so it's effectively a cable-free IEM, but I think you'll dig its tonality.

@clerkpalmer is your set still up for sale? (_Edit: __yes it is_)


----------



## hifi80sman

Luchyres said:


> Well, I finally arrived in MA where I had the XM4 waiting for me - and I'm honestly a little underwhelmed by the sound. On some tracks, and particularly voice calls, there's a bit of a hint of a metallic resonance (think the sound you hear when you're talking loudly near a large metal hollow object like a clothes dryer). I'm still going to play with them and the EQ, and see if the "slight crackle" goes away for other phone call types (other than VOIP) but my hunch is these will not make the cut for me. Haven't played with ANC yet, but the least important to me after sound and call mic quality.
> 
> So, now I'm eyeing the Nuarl N10 Pro and JBL Tour Pro+ (now on Amazon). The JBL Club Pro+ were my favs until I lost them.
> 
> ...


Yep, I've been eyeing the JBL Tour Pro+ as well.  I still have the JBL Club Pro+, which is what is preventing me from picking them up, because basically, I almost have what I perceive to be the same thing!  However, it does appear the fit may have improved with the fins and the overall design.  Meh, I may grab them today, as they're available right now.  Gah!

I'm still in the middle on the XM4.  I really like them in general (complete set of features and sound across genres), however, the fit is bothersome.  They are a bit bulbous and put pressure on the outside part of my ear, not to mention a fiddly fit with the tips themselves.

OK, I just talked myself into picking up the JBL Tour Pro+.  I'll post some initial impressions later today.


----------



## Luchyres

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Consider the ADV M5 for a little less? Don't have any experience with the Tour Pro+, but do have the Club, so I'm familiar with the sound signature you're considering. I think the ADV would fit the bill. Pretty barebones as far as additional features go (ANC/Hearthrough/etc), so it's effectively a cable-free IEM, but I think you'll dig its tonality.
> 
> @clerkpalmer is your set still up for sale? (_Edit: __yes it is_)


Ooh, thank you for the reminder, I just might check those out and grab @clerkpalmer's set 


hifi80sman said:


> Yep, I've been eyeing the JBL Tour Pro+ as well.  I still have the JBL Club Pro+, which is what is preventing me from picking them up, because basically, I almost have what I perceive to be the same thing!  However, it does appear the fit may have improved with the fins and the overall design.  Meh, I may grab them today, as they're available right now.  Gah!
> 
> I'm still in the middle on the XM4.  I really like them in general (complete set of features and sound across genres), however, the fit is bothersome.  They are a bit bulbous and put pressure on the outside part of my ear, not to mention a fiddly fit with the tips themselves.
> 
> OK, I just talked myself into picking up the JBL Tour Pro+.  I'll post some initial impressions later today.


I talked myself into the Tour Pro+ as well - I hope they have the EQability of the Club Pro+ and if so I may still really like them. Excited to hear your impressions - you're the gent who got me to get the JBL's the first time iirc. 

XM4 are going back for sure. Not for me though I must admit their ANC blows everything else I've tried out of the water.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic (Jun 16, 2021)

Giving some initial feedback about the Edifier TWS1 Pro, by the way:

They're extremely comfortable. Honestly, this set competes with the original Noble Falcon in terms of long-term comfort. Unfortunately, there's pretty much no venting of the driver, so you can have an issue where pressure builds up if you're not careful, but the buds are small enough that they should go in and stay in pretty easily, even with the stock tips
Call quality is fine. I get no complaints on either end
Tuning is a mixed bag. I guess I could consider it Consumer+ in the regard that it's definitely pushing bass and treble more than midrange, but there is an attempt to separate the upper bass from lower mids. That being said, kick drums on content like Symphony X's _Paradise Lost _is plenty bombastic without being overwhelming. Cymbals ting or crash like they should, so no detectable splashiness from my listening. Lower midrange is where everything's a little more congested than it should be and that really shows on some of the more complicated passages as instruments start to lose their separation. Things get a lot more insane when you play bass-heavy tracks, though. If you want bass, the TWS1 Pro will give it to you and unapologetically so. It manages to stay just a little under that "big stinky bass" category, but it's certainly robust and should be more than enough to satisfy mild bassheads without aggravating those who prefer something more balanced. Obviously, what content you choose to consume will also affect the outcome. The TWS1 Pro still is a far cry from what I'd consider _balanced_, but in my opinion, it's done tastefully so with the right target demographic in mind. At the end of the day, this is nothing to be upset about when the going rate is on Amazon is $50. For $50, they're tuned exceptionally well.



But the 800lb gorilla in the room is aptX Adaptive. Do the TWS1 Pro cause artifacting and distortion when pushed? Yes, though not as much as the Noble Falcon Pro did. I'll need to do more testing to find out to what extent this distortion is audible. Much like the NFP, it seems to get worse as bitrate goes up. Doesn't really show itself on Spotify, but you can hear it with UAPP and Qobuz when streaming Hi-Res content. In some part, I guess I'm grateful that it has more to do with the codec than it does either TWS, though. Perhaps Qualcomm/Google will work on a fix?

Anywho, after a little under 24 hours of use, these get an easy recommendation from me. Edifier might not be a household name in this space yet, but they're doing enough stuff correctly that I'm willing to forget the 2+ month wait it took for them to get here. Was expecting way worse of a product than I received. This is good.


----------



## Luke Skywalker

Luchyres said:


> Well, I finally arrived in MA where I had the XM4 waiting for me - and I'm honestly a little underwhelmed by the sound. On some tracks, and particularly voice calls, there's a bit of a hint of a metallic resonance (think the sound you hear when you're talking loudly near a large metal hollow object like a clothes dryer). I'm still going to play with them and the EQ, and see if the "slight crackle" goes away for other phone call types (other than VOIP) but my hunch is these will not make the cut for me. Haven't played with ANC yet, but the least important to me after sound and call mic quality.
> 
> So, now I'm eyeing the Nuarl N10 Pro and JBL Tour Pro+ (now on Amazon). The JBL Club Pro+ were my favs until I lost them.
> 
> ...


Hey, I actually just bought (and immediately returned…) the N10 Pro’s… 

I love my N6P’s, but I was underwhelmed by the N10P. The effect of the ANC was not really noticeable (certainly less than my Bose NC), and the volume was really low.

Up until yesterday, I would’ve highly recommended the KEF mu3’s but yesterday the right bud completely stopped working at the gym. (fortunately I had my N6P’s with me!)

This happened a few weeks ago and then it just started working again. But I might be returning these for a new pair.


----------



## dj24 (Jun 16, 2021)

CactusPete23 said:


> I have a somewhat Rube Goldberg solution for you.  Get a 3.5mm Splitter cable that gives you 2 3.5mm Stereo outputs, and then get TWO Bluetooth Transmitters.  The Bluetooth transmitters don't need to be expensive.  Especially if you are OK with SBC, and don't need AAC, APTX APTX-HD; or the hardest to find an LDAC Transmitter.
> This way you'll have a separate bluetooth transmitter for each TWS.


Very intriguing.  Do you think there will be any lip synch issues with 2 transmitters in the mix playing simultaneously to 2 TWS sets?  Also what part of the TV would those 2 3.5mm stereo connectors go into or would they  connect to the transmitter instead.


----------



## Luke Skywalker

CactusPete23 said:


> I have a somewhat Rube Goldberg solution for you.  Get a 3.5mm Splitter cable that gives you 2 3.5mm Stereo outputs, and then get TWO Bluetooth Transmitters.  The Bluetooth transmitters don't need to be expensive.  Especially if you are OK with SBC, and don't need AAC, APTX APTX-HD; or the hardest to find an LDAC Transmitter.
> This way you'll have a separate bluetooth transmitter for each TWS.


I love that idea. My wife and I watch movies at night and she always complains when some parts get too loud. So I need to fiddle constantly with the volume remote which of course has on screen display that I can’t disable.


----------



## Caipirina

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Oh jeez, you're not kidding. Would expect tuning to be drastically different because here's the listening notes from one review of the O7:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Tuning is one thing, but fit would probably be the same. And while I get a great fit with the Mifo o5, the o7 are too ‘shallow’, the only way I get a decent seal is with different tips which then makes the buds not fit into the case. Since I still have the original box I am actively trying to sell them, but there is no market / demand here for niche TwS … ppl either want flashy brand names or cheap.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

Caipirina said:


> Tuning is one thing, but fit would probably be the same. And while I get a great fit with the Mifo o5, the o7 are too ‘shallow’, the only way I get a decent seal is with different tips which then makes the buds not fit into the case. Since I still have the original box I am actively trying to sell them, but there is no market / demand here for niche TwS … ppl either want flashy brand names or cheap.


That's useful info. Considering the Club Pro+ are on the shallower end, I wonder if fit is similar. Guess we'll find out and, worst case, I'm sure I know someone who would appreciate these if they end up not being my thing.


----------



## Luke Skywalker

Thinking of picking up the Devialet Gemini.  Might need a replacement for my KEFs if I need to send them back for repair/replace.

good sound? ANC?


----------



## clerkpalmer

Luke Skywalker said:


> Thinking of picking up the Devialet Gemini.  Might need a replacement for my KEFs if I need to send them back for repair/replace.
> 
> good sound? ANC?


Yes, Great sound. Good ANC. I think you will be pleased. I think they are right there with the pI7.


----------



## clerkpalmer

Enjoying the Melomania Touch’s. SQ is really impressive. For those who said they sound better than the Sony, you may be right. I’m thinking these may be the elusive biking set I’ve been looking for.


----------



## Luke Skywalker

clerkpalmer said:


> Yes, Great sound. Good ANC. I think you will be pleased. I think they are right there with the pI7.


Thank you my friend!  Looks like Amazon has them for $299


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

Luke Skywalker said:


> Thinking of picking up the Devialet Gemini.  Might need a replacement for my KEFs if I need to send them back for repair/replace.
> 
> good sound? ANC?


Sounds like everything's good to go now that they got past the initial problems (which firmware corrected). I'd take the recommendations you're getting for them on faith and will admit that I wouldn't mind a pair myself. Just makes more sense, with what I have, to wait a generation or two and see what happens.

Besides, I'll never get my Hero if I keep burning my free cash at this rate hahaha. I swear, after the HiBy, I've got to be done with buying stuff for a while.


clerkpalmer said:


> Enjoying the Melomania Touch’s. SQ is really impressive. For those who said they sound better than the Sony, you may be right. I’m thinking these may be the elusive biking set I’ve been looking for.


I remember we were on the fence about it previously due to the potential for wind noise with that bottom protrusion. Is that not the case? If so, awesome! Glad you're liking them. Stock tips or something else?


----------



## clerkpalmer

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Sounds like everything's good to go now that they got past the initial problems (which firmware corrected). I'd take the recommendations you're getting for them on faith and will admit that I wouldn't mind a pair myself. Just makes more sense, with what I have, to wait a generation or two and see what happens.
> 
> Besides, I'll never get my Hero if I keep burning my free cash at this rate hahaha. I swear, after the HiBy, I've got to be done with buying stuff for a while.
> 
> I remember we were on the fence about it previously due to the potential for wind noise with that bottom protrusion. Is that not the case? If so, awesome! Glad you're liking them. Stock tips or something else?


Gonna give them a run tonight. The M5 generated a lot of wind noise for me. I’ll start with stock tips and go from there. Fingers crossed.


----------



## howdy

I'll be returning my XM4 next week as well and picking up the MTW2 instead. The XM4s sound great on some tracks and others sound like Sh!t. I've also had 3 different software glitches that shouldn't happen. I'm just not feeling these. 
I have the MTW1 and like those and are super comfy and can only assume that the MTW2 will be much better especially battery life.


----------



## cresny

clerkpalmer said:


> Yes, Great sound. Good ANC. I think you will be pleased. I think they are right there with the pI7.


How do you think the XM4 ANC compares? After reading this review it seems they both have proprietary tech to handle higher frequencies. I'm guessing the Sonys have better passive isolation from the foam tips at but maybe sacrificing comfort in the bargain.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

Looks like there's one slot left for the HiBy WH2 2-pack...thought that one would have sold out by now. Using the WH3 as a metric, $100 each isn't too shabby. Looks like they go up $10 each after that tier:

http://kck.st/3pSgCeI


----------



## Luke Skywalker

cresny said:


> How do you think the XM4 ANC compares? After reading this review it seems they both have proprietary tech to handle higher frequencies. I'm guessing the Sonys have better passive isolation from the foam tips at but maybe sacrificing comfort in the bargain.


That would be an interesting comparison!  Although I hate the sound of the XM3’s. Don’t know why I haven’t sold or gotten rid of them


----------



## erockg

clerkpalmer said:


> Gonna give them a run tonight. The M5 generated a lot of wind noise for me. I’ll start with stock tips and go from there. Fingers crossed.


Highly recommend the Devialet Gemini.  Number one favorite in my collection.  ANC is awesome.  Soundstage is huge.  EQ set to Dynamic and I’m amazed at how good they sound.  All firmware issues have been resolved.  I bought them from Crutchfield and they arrived with the firmware already updated.


----------



## clerkpalmer

howdy said:


> I'll be returning my XM4 next week as well and picking up the MTW2 instead. The XM4s sound great on some tracks and others sound like Sh!t. I've also had 3 different software glitches that shouldn't happen. I'm just not feeling these.
> I have the MTW1 and like those and are super comfy and can only assume that the MTW2 will be much better especially battery life.


I have noticed this as well. Any ideas why the xm4 sq varies from track to track? It is bizarre. No software issues here.


----------



## clerkpalmer

erockg said:


> Highly recommend the Devialet Gemini.  Number one favorite in my collection.  ANC is awesome.  Soundstage is huge.  EQ set to Dynamic and I’m amazed at how good they sound.  All firmware issues have been resolved.  I bought them from Crutchfield and they arrived with the firmware already updated.


Trying to catch up, Erockg have you heard the Sony and pI7?


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

clerkpalmer said:


> I have noticed this as well. Any ideas why the xm4 sq varies from track to track? It is bizarre. No software issues here.


Is it possible LDAC is floating bitrates between tracks? Wondering if it's going from 660 on one to 990 on another to 330 on yet another and you're able to hear changes in volume as a result.

It's really interesting...seems like aptX Adaptive and LDAC might be able to reveal some sort of compression artifacting/general BT weirdness once the TWS is capable of rendering it.

Or it's just a bug. Totally would never be a bug...


----------



## PixelSquish

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Is it possible LDAC is floating bitrates between tracks? Wondering if it's going from 660 on one to 990 on another to 330 on yet another and you're able to hear changes in volume as a result.
> 
> It's really interesting...seems like aptX Adaptive and LDAC might be able to reveal some sort of compression artifacting/general BT weirdness once the TWS is capable of rendering it.
> 
> Or it's just a bug. Totally would never be a bug...


Could be a Sony bug or an Android bug. I wonder what phones everyone is using with these and LDAC? I'm using the Pixel 5. I have not noticed any weird artifacts or sounds in tracks or with the male voice/vocals at all.


----------



## clerkpalmer

PixelSquish said:


> Could be a Sony bug or an Android bug. I wonder what phones everyone is using with these and LDAC? I'm using the Pixel 5. I have not noticed any weird artifacts or sounds in tracks or with the male voice/vocals at all.


To me it sounds like compression. Pixel 3a here. iPhone is my DD.  As mentioned above, I can’t tell a difference from LDAC on the pixel and aac on the iPhone. I’ll be getting a Fold 3 so back to AAC purgatory.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

PixelSquish said:


> Could be a Sony bug or an Android bug. I wonder what phones everyone is using with these and LDAC? I'm using the Pixel 5. I have not noticed any weird artifacts or sounds in tracks or with the male voice/vocals at all.


That's what I'm thinking, but did see a parallel to what I can hear over aptX Adaptive (using the OnePlus 8T). If they're comparable to each other, though, seems like the issue wouldn't be at the codec level. It's interesting.


clerkpalmer said:


> To me it sounds like compression. Pixel 3a here. iPhone is my DD.  As mentioned above, I can’t tell a difference from LDAC on the pixel and aac on the iPhone. I’ll be getting a Fold 3 so back to AAC purgatory.


In a sense, it's like you're saving yourself from having to worry about all these little things. I consider that a win.


----------



## howdy

clerkpalmer said:


> I have noticed this as well. Any ideas why the xm4 sq varies from track to track? It is bizarre. No software issues here.


Not sure at why the sound varys but if I had to guess as to which songs it would be one with a focus on vocals.
My glitches have been where voice detect was off in the app but still functioning. Also one time with both buds in it powered off both with over 70 percent left. There was one other thing but I can't recall what it was.


----------



## EMINENT (Jun 16, 2021)

clerkpalmer said:


> To me it sounds like compression. Pixel 3a here. iPhone is my DD.  As mentioned above, I can’t tell a difference from LDAC on the pixel and aac on the iPhone. I’ll be getting a Fold 3 so back to AAC purgatory.


Fold 3 is eliminating LDAC? I have a Fold 2 and have it.

I just got the ePro horn tips recommended earlier in the thread and they help a bit in the mids and treble very slightly, noticeably from the large stock tips. I got the mediums.
I have been messing with eq for the past hour and it's better now on what i've finally settled on. They are still dark, or another way to describe it is compressed sounding.
The track i'm still testing and having the issue with is in FLAC, Alicia Keys - Back To Life at 2:53. Sounds like attenuation going on when the beat drops. Using LDAC 990 and i've tried everything I can think of even messing with Adapt Sound rebooting then going to AAC.

My Galaxy Buds Pro don't exhibit this using Samsung Scalable Codec. Of course my i4's don't.

Attached the eq I have settled on.

Disappointed, but I can live with them until something better comes out.

Really wished some company would go balls out with a summit fi bluetooth tws. I wouldn't mind paying thousands if someone got it right.


----------



## clerkpalmer

EMINENT said:


> Fold 3 is eliminating LDAC? I have a Fold 2 and have it.
> 
> I just got the ePro horn tips recommended earlier in the thread and they help a bit in the mids and treble very slightly, noticeably from the large stock tips. I got the mediums.
> I have been messing with eq for the past hour and it's better now on what i've finally settled on. They are still dark, or another way to describe it is compressed sounding.
> ...


Not eliminating LDAC.  All I meant was AAC sucks on Android. Something is amiss with the Sony.


----------



## erockg

clerkpalmer said:


> Trying to catch up, Erockg have you heard the Sony and pI7?



Yes, I own the XM4 and love them.  Devialet Gemini are better to my ears.  That said, I use the XM4s on Zoom calls all day with my Mac.  Zero issues.  Had both he PI7 and PI5, both great but had so many issues with poor bluetooth with my iPhone.  Sound is better on the PI7 but the Sonys just offer a better complete package IMO.  Much better than the XM3.


----------



## erockg

RE: Issues with the XM4s.  Strange.  I haven't had any issues.  Use them about 4+ hours a day.


----------



## clerkpalmer

erockg said:


> Yes, I own the XM4 and love them.  Devialet Gemini are better to my ears.  That said, I use the XM4s on Zoom calls all day with my Mac.  Zero issues.  Had both he PI7 and PI5, both great but had so many issues with poor bluetooth with my iPhone.  Sound is better on the PI7 but the Sonys just offer a better complete package IMO.  Much better than the XM3.


Are you running stock tips?


----------



## erockg

clerkpalmer said:


> Are you running stock tips?


On the XM4?  No, Spinfits.


----------



## jsmiller58

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Looks like there's one slot left for the HiBy WH2 2-pack...thought that one would have sold out by now. Using the WH3 as a metric, $100 each isn't too shabby. Looks like they go up $10 each after that tier:
> 
> http://kck.st/3pSgCeI


I wonder…. The two pack of WH2, vs the Devialet…. Obviously different animals…. The Devialet looks really tempting…


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

jsmiller58 said:


> I wonder…. The two pack of WH2, vs the Devialet…. Obviously different animals…. The Devialet looks really tempting…


Depends on what you want. Different class of TWS, in my opinion, so wouldn't be fair to pit them against each other. I'm slowly carving my path into being one of those "reviewers," so for me it makes sense to go the HiBy route. I'd go Devialet if I wanted to stop searching. Seems it's been tuned to everybody's liking so far.


----------



## jsmiller58

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Depends on what you want. Different class of TWS, in my opinion, so wouldn't be fair to pit them against each other. I'm slowly carving my path into being one of those "reviewers," so for me it makes sense to go the HiBy route. I'd go Devialet if I wanted to stop searching. Seems it's been tuned to everybody's liking so far.


Awesome!  I wonder if I can convince my wife that Devialet Gemini are my Father’s Day present…. Of course I used that excuse on the XM4s and Topping A50s amp I just got, so…


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

jsmiller58 said:


> Awesome!  I wonder if I can convince my wife that Devialet Gemini are my Father’s Day present…. Of course I used that excuse on the XM4s and Topping A50s amp I just got, so…


Hmm _how_ many times can one use the same excuse...willing to experiment?


----------



## VICosPhi (Jun 17, 2021)

Been happy with MTW2, just got my WF1000XM4 and here is what I think :

_- WF1000XM4 has extremely good ANC, only surpassed by Bose TWS(from memory)_

_- LDAC works well and I think sounds better than AAC if you have HQ music

- Treble is rolled off in typical Sony way, if you are used to Sennheiser or B&O then these will sound dark to you. Even after EQ you cannot extract the same amount of upper treble out of these

- Bass is impactful and I maybe a minority here but I'd rather have strong bass presence that I can EQ down for typical listening sessions.

- Fit is subjective but these have been comfortable for me, even though looking at size and weight, they come off as larger than usual TWS. MTW2 feel lighter though and more comfortable

- Speak to chat works perfectly and you can adjust the timer for it in the app

- Left earbud stops working once in a while but it could just be a bug in current firmware as many have experienced this issue

- Touch controls on either L/R buds are somewhat customizable in the Sony app but not as much as MTW2. Sony App gives you presets to choose, Sennheiser gives you full control

- Microphone on these is terrible. I had 3 people on a Zoom call today and they had a confused face when I started the call with XM4s and after two minutes of speaking I asked them are you able to hear me okay? The answer was "You sound garbled as if speaking underwater, and we can't make out some words at all like it is cutting out". I switched to my Plantronics and they said the difference was night and day. So definitely these are not the buds for conf calls. Maybe you can use for occassional short phone coversations. Hopefully Sony improves the mic as I think these buds have the best processing power out of everything TWS out there and Sony added bone conduction in these.

- Watching YouTube is less laggy on Sonys vs MTW2, minor difference but noticeable

- Sony case is pocketable but still a bit bulky as compared to Galaxy buds pro which I also own. MTW2 case is most premium of all the cases but both Sony and Samsung cases show battery life in the app, MTW2 case only shows battery life for buds.

- The Sony factory foam tips that come with XM4s  seem one size smaller than usual. I typically use M size but M was too small so I went with L

- The voice is fuller on XM4s vs MTW2 when on phone calls or listening to YouTube podcasts

- The mids sound better on XM4s vs MTW2

- MTW2 sound more "refined" when listening to music

- XM4s respond very well to the EQ but you won't get the quality of treble you get from MTW2

- Battery on XM4 outlasts MTW2 which is great for long flights or listening sessions_

_- MTW2 has inferior ANC to XM4s but the Azla tips I have on MTW2 give me such a great seal that any low frequency noise is suppressed by MTW2 as good as XM4s which was a pleasant surprise that I did not expect with MTW2_


Ordered some ePro horn tips to see if they bring out the Treble, will know in a couple days. Once I decide which ones to keepm the other paid is giong on eBay. I don't like returning to the retailer and abuse the great return policy they offer.


----------



## hifi80sman

Brief impressions on the JBL Tour Pro+.

Really digging these things.

CASE
A little larger, but feels and looks slightly more premium, but similar overall.

BUDS
The JBL Tour Pro+ are about the same size, but a little different shape.  They fit me well and have a more secure fit than the JBL Club Pro+, which tends to slip a little at the gym.

ANC
About the same.  They do a good job with fans, AC units, etc., but kids yapping will cut right through.

SOUND
I tested these out on the same iPhone 12 Pro, Apple Music, same songs, and all using the same EQ options (Bass Boost and no EQ).  While they sound very similar, the Tour Pro+ actually sound a little cleaner and dig a little deeper.  Imaging is a bit better.  Overall, the sound extends better across the frequency range.  They're close, but I think the Tour Pro+ are a worthwhile improvement.  I wouldn't necessarily say that those with the Club Pro+ should upgrade, but if you no longer have those, I would absolutely recommend these.  

OVERALL
If I were to recommend something to the Average Joe off the street, I'd probably recommend these.  Good universal fit, good feature set, respectable ANC for low frequency noise, pretty great EQ (see below), and excellent overall sound across genres.  If you like bass, which my simplistic self does, these will numb your teeth.


----------



## Thesonofkrypton (Jun 17, 2021)

Enjoying the XM4s.  Sony got to be commended for the wind noise reduction feature, was a bit blustery yesterday when out and turned them on and was really impressed having been disappointed with the XM3 for that very reason.  Wanted to keep the feature on permanently but apparently drains battery, so a little annoyance having to turn it on from the app but not a big deal.

Those experiencing bugs with the xm4 are you on android? Using iPhone and zero issues.  Had zero issues with the XM3 too, so I imagine it must be.


----------



## bizkid

I have the Jabra Elite 65t for a week now and really like them. Hoowever i wish they had more clarity and detail overall. Don't get me wrong for the price you pay for them right now they are fantastic but i'm a little spoiled so i'm looking for something with a similar tuning, maybe better/more mids and more detail, more clarity and better instrument seperation. Any recommendations? Thanks alot.


----------



## snapandslide

erockg said:


> On the XM4?  No, Spinfits.


Which spinfits are these? I'm currently using the silicone that came with the XM3s, which is working out ok. Not a fan of the foams, but will give them another try in a few days.


----------



## Devodonaldson

Thesonofkrypton said:


> Enjoying the XM4s.  Sony got to be commended for the wind noise reduction feature, was a bit blustery yesterday when out and turned them on and was really impressed having been disappointed with the XM3 for that very reason.  Wanted to keep the feature on permanently but apparently drains battery, so a little annoyance having to turn it on from the app but not a big deal.
> 
> Those experiencing bugs with the xm4 are you on android? Using iPhone and zero issues.  Had zero issues with the XM3 too, so I imagine it must be.


Not a (because you're on Android) use the XM4 with 4 different Android devices without issue. It's an issue, but not a typical one


----------



## X-Nemesis

Hi, I'm unable to find a retailer for the UE Fits in Canada, can anyone here drop a link if you know of one?


----------



## tiagopinto (Jun 17, 2021)

dweaver said:


> Regarding Flossy Carter reviews, he's funny and does give good impressions. I don't always agree with his sonic preferences but understand them well enough to know which products he reviews will work for me.
> 
> In the case of the XM4 I have a few reservations though. He appeared to be using the setting for stability versus sound quality when testing, this would not allow the XM4 to be at its best sonically speaking so may have affecting his musical ranking and account for why he thought the sound quality was very similar to the XM3.



I like his reviews and I agree with you when I take my own considerations based on his impressions.

A couple of things I never agree on are: he tests most stuff pushing the bass in the EQ to the max (this might be his biggest mistake. IMO it’s not a question of taste but of fidelity and accuracy), he gets ridiculously nervous when trying to open ANY box, he does not seem to respect whatever any manufacturer includes as accessories or literature.

The rest is his personal style, some things I like, others I don’t. But overall he does a good job.

I wish there was a more audiophile kind of reviewer out there trying this type of stuff out, like John Darko, Hans Beekhuyzen or even ASR.

I used to like Jimmy Luong too.


----------



## tiagopinto

miserybeforethemusic said:


> No word on either front so far. 85t Actives could be pretty sweet if done well.
> 
> And weekly maintenance calls. Tired enough that I confused this with my morning coffee at least once already:
> 
> ...



Hot soapy?! I love this guy.


----------



## Tommy C

X-Nemesis said:


> Hi, I'm unable to find a retailer for the UE Fits in Canada, can anyone here drop a link if you know of one?


Was looking for a Canadian retailer as well. No luck and eventually gave up.


----------



## samandhi

clerkpalmer said:


> Gonna give them a run tonight. The M5 generated a lot of wind noise for me. I’ll start with stock tips and go from there. Fingers crossed.


I don't bike, or run much, but do a lot of walking, and outside. I have found that the wind noise is amplified when in "hear-through" mode, but otherwise I don't hear much of anything else. With a good seal these seem pretty good at passive noise isolation IMO.


----------



## tiagopinto

bladefd said:


> So I should wait for next generation TWS if I already have the MT? I don't really care about ANC, couple extra features, etc. I mainly care about sq and comfort, which MT does great already. Aptx to LDAC is probably negligible. I'm getting the MT rma'd sometime this month due to the volume issue it has & charging issue. Hopefully, that will solve those 2 issues.
> 
> @PixelSquish @jsmiller58



I’ve been giving the Rai Solo ALL the attention lately so haven’t been able to dedicate any time to the MT and analyze if any issues persist. Mind you, I’m in my second pair (after the left bud capitulated). I love their sound and that’s the main argument for keeping them. I guess I should further test them and check if they’re “ok to proceed”. If not, I’ll probably return them and not get a third pair. We’ll see. 

(btw, the latest Greta Van Fleet sounds awesome on the Solo, as everything usually does! Gonna switch to the MT and hope for the best)


----------



## clerkpalmer

samandhi said:


> I don't bike, or run much, but do a lot of walking, and outside. I have found that the wind noise is amplified when in "hear-through" mode, but otherwise I don't hear much of anything else. With a good seal these seem pretty good at passive noise isolation IMO.


They passed the biking test with flying colors. Very little wind noise - best I’ve had so far. Transparency off but that’s a given. Really like these.  Probably gonna cancel my beats preorder - hard to think they could be better.


----------



## tiagopinto

clerkpalmer said:


> I have not heard the MT but it sounds like I should.



I believe you should.



PixelSquish said:


> I really liked the sound of the MT. I can't wait until they come out with a successor and I will try that. They were just too glitchy for me and a bit unpolished, including the touch controls being way too sensitive. Plus I do want good ANC for some scenarios. I did think the MT were a notch above the MTW2 in SQ for me. It wasn't a dramatic increase of SQ, but enough to feel these are slightly better and I enjoy them a touch more when I use them. For now I feel the MTW2 and XM4 are similar in SQ for me, even though they sound slightly different, they both make me happy the same amount.
> 
> If you don't care about ANC and the battery life, stick with the MT and save the money, spend that 300 on something else nice. I will be looking forward to Cambridge Audio's next TWS buds.



Agreed. I haven’t tried the XM4. But compared to the MTW2 I prefer the MT. XM3 were unquestionably worse, for me.



samandhi said:


> I think (in the end after many FW updates and re-tuning) the MT are one of those rare gems that punch in higher than their price tag IMO. Are they perfect? No! Are they accurately tuned? Heck no! But, do they have some really good technicalities in their single DD driver? Oh yes! Hopefully CA has learned a thing or two and the next gen will be better. I know I will be tempted (at least) to check them out. In the end, I am glad I bought them!



I disagree with your “Heck no” about the tuning. I believe after the last firmware they’re right there...



Slowhand said:


> I guess with PI7 and the MT standing out SQ-wise, proper amplification may be more important than initially assumed in this space. Looking forward to more actual HiFi companies stepping into this space. Could Focal be next?



Amplification is definitely of the utmost importance imo. For me it’s more about the components’ synergy and their implementation than the decoding chip by itself or the available codecs. 



Thesonofkrypton said:


> I dig the Melomania Touch. It’s a very decent sounding tws for the money but frustrated me with the connection issues. I look forward to the next iteration 100% if they keep or improve on the sound quality but work on improving the overall experience.



I haven’t had many of those issues lately. We’ve been comparing them to buds that are at least double the price. Imo, there’s no contest at 130€. 

As Samandhi said “are they perfect?” No, they’re not. Maybe the PI7 with more battery or the Gemini with no issues, but are they worth three pairs of MT’s? Never imo.


----------



## clerkpalmer

tiagopinto said:


> I believe you should.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


In defense of the Gemini it’s only 2.25 pairs. If you don’t need ANC it’s debatable. Actually the tuning on both of them is similar. The Gemini have tighter bass which is probably the one area the CA could be improved. The bass is a little loose.


----------



## samandhi

tiagopinto said:


> I disagree with your “Heck no” about the tuning. I believe after the last firmware they’re right there...


I only meant it in the sense that they still have very boosted bass, and the mids are still a bit recessed, though the treble has improved immensely. So, they are not tuned to be accurate, but to be fun IMO...


----------



## tiagopinto

C_Lindbergh said:


> Yea I agree, the Melomania touch kinda reminds me of the Shure Aonic 50, perfect SQ-wise/comfort, that pushes way above its price tag, but with a lackluster technical experience.
> 
> If CA can launch the next iteration without any bugs/connection issues with decent ANC-functionallity and Bluetooth LC3... I'd buy it in an instant.  The case itself wasn't really that great build quality wise, I wouldn't mind a slight price increase compared if they gave us ANC and a better case.



This first phrase in this post could’ve been written by me. I own both and love both. 

The second phrase relays my thoughts exactly, thanks.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

clerkpalmer said:


> They passed the biking test with flying colors. Very little wind noise - best I’ve had so far. Transparency off but that’s a given. Really like these.  Probably gonna cancel my beats preorder - hard to think they could be better.


Awesome! Mission accomplished, then. Yes, the sound signature has shifted over time and it's considerably more balanced than it used to be, but we could get a little further with treatment in the midrange. It may just be a mechanical limitation of the driver at this point, but I do know Cambridge is working on another firmware that was slated to come out soon. They may tweak tuning a little more, but I haven't heard anything definitive.


clerkpalmer said:


> In defense of the Gemini it’s only 2.25 pairs. If you don’t need ANC it’s debatable. Actually the tuning on both of them is similar. The Gemini have tighter bass which is probably the one area the CA could be improved. The bass is a little loose.


Wonder what I'd do with a quarter pair of TWS and what that would look like...would it be just the battery? Totally agree that the bass isn't as punchy (leans a little warm). It's the one thing that I think separates the MT tonally from the M5-TWS. Those are two other pairs that have a lot in common with each other, come to think of it.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic (Jun 17, 2021)

HiBy's claiming the WH2 will have 5 hours of battery life streaming redbook (16/44), volume unmentioned. Don't know if that shifts anybody's opinion on the matter. Think mine is still the same.






I think our current estimates of 3-4 hours in unrestricted LDAC (990) are probably going to be accurate.

Seems like things are getting a little heated. Don't know who's managing the social aspect on HiBy's end, but they probably need to check themselves before this blows up further:


----------



## erockg

snapandslide said:


> Which spinfits are these? I'm currently using the silicone that came with the XM3s, which is working out ok. Not a fan of the foams, but will give them another try in a few days.


CP100Z, but the CP360 work well also.  Both tips M.


----------



## erockg

New XM4 firmware.  I have no issues, but maybe it'll help those who do.


----------



## bladefd (Jun 17, 2021)

miserybeforethemusic said:


> HiBy's claiming the WH2 will have 5 hours of battery life streaming redbook (16/44), volume unmentioned. Don't know if that shifts anybody's opinion on the matter. Think mine is still the same.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


It could end up blowing up in their face if that ended up being true. The people who don't read the FAQ, Q/A will still buy it though and potentially get swindled. Not a good look for HiBy. 

Are they chi-fi too? This is the sort of thing I expect 100% from a chi-fi company, and I wouldn't touch those with a 100ft stick.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic (Jun 17, 2021)

bladefd said:


> It could end up blowing up in their face if that ended up being true. The people who don't read the FAQ, Q/A will still buy it though and potentially get swindled. Not a good look for HiBy.


Yeah, it's really not cool. I know they thought it was a joke, but this isn't the first time I've seen a Chi-Fi company trip over themselves trying to explain why something looks eerily similar to another product.

If only they realized it's that back-pedaling that turns everybody off. I'd understand if they just spoke up and said "yes, we saved money by repurposing a mold that was made to cast the TFZ/MiFo shells because it was cheaper than tooling new molds." Instead, they're not only giving the perception that perhaps it's not just the charging case and earbuds that look pretty much identical; they seem to think it's funny.

I was already sore from basically getting no answer on what HiBy plans to do with the WH3, which leads me to believe they're just abandoning it after having been out for less than a year. What happens when they do the same for the WH2? I mean I've got to apply trend analysis here, right?

Can someone give me a reason to stay on this campaign? Because I'm about to deuce out and pull my funding. Someone else can have 'em.

Let's try this again for anybody who thinks I'm overreacting. Spot the differences:





bladefd said:


> Are they chi-fi too? This is the sort of thing I expect 100% from a chi-fi company, and I wouldn't touch those with a 100ft stick.


Technically, they're in HK, but seems like it's the same standard practice in this case (pun half-intended).


----------



## bladefd

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Yeah, it's really not cool. I know they thought it was a joke, but this isn't the first time I've seen a Chi-Fi company trip over themselves trying to explain why something looks eerily similar to another product.
> 
> If only they realized it's that back-pedaling that turns everybody off. I'd understand if they just spoke up and said "yes, we saved money by repurposing a mold that was made to cast the TFZ/MiFo shells because it was cheaper than tooling new molds." Instead, they're not only giving the perception that perhaps it's not just the charging case and earbuds that look pretty much identical; they seem to think it's funny.
> 
> ...


It looks the same down to the font of the L and R lol. Color the L and R are written in is the only difference but the font/location is the same when you zoom in. Even the paint job on the buds might be the same with photo taken in different lightning sources & angle.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

bladefd said:


> It looks the same down to the font of the L and R lol. Color the L and R are written in is the only difference but the font/location is the same when you zoom in. Even the paint job on the buds might be the same with photo taken in different lightning sources & angle.


The MiFo image might be a render. Here's another one:




Don't think I need to say more. I backed out. The more I think about this, the less comfortable I am supporting what's become a mainstay in the Chi-Fi market. Borrow from someone else's stuff if you want, but don't lie about it and then double down when you get caught. Some of us have a pretty good idea how that market works. Here's a primer for those who might not:


----------



## helmutcheese

Cleer Ally Plus​Tronsmart Apollo Bold​😉


----------



## Tommy C

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Yeah, it's really not cool. I know they thought it was a joke, but this isn't the first time I've seen a Chi-Fi company trip over themselves trying to explain why something looks eerily similar to another product.
> 
> If only they realized it's that back-pedaling that turns everybody off. I'd understand if they just spoke up and said "yes, we saved money by repurposing a mold that was made to cast the TFZ/MiFo shells because it was cheaper than tooling new molds." Instead, they're not only giving the perception that perhaps it's not just the charging case and earbuds that look pretty much identical; they seem to think it's funny.
> 
> ...




They suspiciously look similar.
With that being said, as you mentioned, it's a common practice in the Chi-Fi world and I'm guessing these are OEM shells or were co-developed with MiFO (less likely).


----------



## X-Nemesis

Tommy C said:


> Was looking for a Canadian retailer as well. No luck and eventually gave up.


Well DAMN, that blows.  Ok thanks for your input, guess it seems like Canuckistan is SOOL


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

Tommy C said:


> They suspiciously look similar.
> With that being said, as you mentioned, it's a common practice in the Chi-Fi world and I'm guessing these are OEM shells or were co-developed with MiFO (less likely).


HiBy's response was as follows:


----------



## J_3000 (Jun 17, 2021)

I decided to RMA my MT's. This is actually the second time Im returning them. I liked the sound considering the price point, but there are just too many problems. Most annoying one being them waking up in the case on their own and connecting to my phone. I might be in the middle of a phone call and suddenly all goes silent. After a while I would realize, one of the buds has activated on its own in the case and took control of the phone call. What is really weird about this behaviour, is the fact that I wouldnt even have to touch the case. It would be sitting somewhere without any movement and this would happen.

I have the MW07 Plus I got from the -50% Nike sale and they are ok for that price. The sound is little unexciting but listenable. The mics in the MW07 are miles better than on on the MT's. No one could ever hear me if I was out walking in normal speed with the MT's and I would have to disconnect and use the phones mic. With the MW07 no one complaints, so its totally on a different level.

Now Im eyeing on a new pair. Any other suggestions? Important would be the sound, good fit (the MW07+ fit is really good), battery life, decent mics for phone calls, need AptX (Android and Windows use)...

What do you guys think about the Nuarl N6Pro?


----------



## miserybeforethemusic (Jun 17, 2021)

J_3000 said:


> I decided to RMA my MT's. This is actually the second time Im returning them. I liked the sound considering the price point, but there are just too many problems. Most annoying one being them waking up in the case on their own and connecting to my phone. I might be in the middle of a phone call and suddenly all goes silent. After a while I would realize, one of the buds has activated on its own in the case and took control of the phone call. What is really weird about this behaviour, is the fact that I wouldnt even have to touch the case. It would be sitting somewhere without any movement and this would happen.
> 
> I have the MW07 Plus I got from the -50% Nike sale and they are ok for that price. The sound is little unexciting but listenable. The mics in the MW07 are miles better than on on the MT's. No one could ever hear me if I was out walking in normal speed with the MT's and I would have to disconnect and use the phones mic. With the MW07 no one complaints, so its totally on a different level.
> 
> ...


You should be able to get a similar tonality with the JBL Club Pro+ (and apparently now the Tour Pro+) with better luck all around on the other stuff. Although, if you're willing to wait it out until the end of the month, there is a MT firmware update that's coming around the corner and should address some of those issues you're facing. Alternatively, there's the Noble Falcon 2 which is effectively the Falcon 1 in a different case. No aptX Adaptive woes, great battery life, stellar fit. Should be a good contrast to the MW07 Plus:

https://www.nobleaudio.com/wireless/p/falcon-tws-white-xr5za

Regarding the connecting while cased issue, my suggestion is to clean the charging contacts on both the buds and the case with some isopropyl alcohol and a cotton swab (like the ones that go into your ear). Sometimes it's just a spotty connection. At this point, only my UE FITS tend to auto-connect in the case if they're just a little off, but the MT have been champs. Just need to work on the "powers off after an hour" thing, which is probably due to the Snapdragon 865 in my phone.


----------



## samandhi

J_3000 said:


> I decided to RMA my MT's. This is actually the second time Im returning them. I liked the sound considering the price point, but there are just too many problems. Most annoying one being them waking up in the case on their own and connecting to my phone. I might be in the middle of a phone call and suddenly all goes silent. After a while I would realize, one of the buds has activated on its own in the case and took control of the phone call. What is really weird about this behaviour, is the fact that I wouldnt even have to touch the case. It would be sitting somewhere without any movement and this would happen.
> 
> I have the MW07 Plus I got from the -50% Nike sale and they are ok for that price. The sound is little unexciting but listenable. The mics in the MW07 are miles better than on on the MT's. No one could ever hear me if I was out walking in normal speed with the MT's and I would have to disconnect and use the phones mic. With the MW07 no one complaints, so its totally on a different level.
> 
> ...


After my initial listen and into a week or so, which resulted in me disliking them on here publicly, the sound changed for the better. Now, I would recommend them to anyone that wanted great details (some of the best detail retrieval in a TWS I have heard to date) up top, and mids. If you like boosted bass, these might not be the best choice for you though. On the other hand they EQ pretty well if you want that extra bass for fun factor. I would say that their claim of being neutral is pretty darned close. 

Fitment was just right for me, but keep in mind these are not like the MT that are shallow insertion with wide tips. These like to go deep into your ears for the best seal (a lot like IEMs). The controls are absolutely fantastic. They ARE pushbuttons, so if you are looking for touch controls these won't do it for you. The controls are on the top, and the same controls are one both buds, so you can use either. Overall, I really like them a lot and would recommend them (especially for the price).


----------



## voicemaster

Is there any TWS that is galaxy buds live style or airpod style that has good sound and good call quality, preferably under $100? My wife ears is kinda weird. Any TWS/IEMs that has silicone tips won't fit in her ears.


----------



## tinyman392

voicemaster said:


> Is there any TWS that is galaxy buds live style or airpod style that has good sound and good call quality, preferably under $100? My wife ears is kinda weird. Any TWS/IEMs that has silicone tips won't fit in her ears.


With IEMs, it normally helps if you pull up on the helix of your ear while inserting the tip as it straightens out your ear canal.  At times it also helps to do a twisting motion as you insert the tip.  Getting it sufficiently deep will also help the stability of the IEM in your ear.  Using a tip that is too big will make this process impossible while using one that is too small won't seal correctly.  It can be a slight bother to do it properly.  

Foam tips is also another alternative as well (Comply and other manufacturers make foam tips for various headphones).  They also have their own prepping to get them working right.  Everything I stated above can apply to foam tips as well to get the most secure fit, but may not be 100% necessary.


----------



## diimaan

voicemaster said:


> Is there any TWS that is galaxy buds live style or airpod style that has good sound and good call quality, preferably under $100? My wife ears is kinda weird. Any TWS/IEMs that has silicone tips won't fit in her ears.


Galaxy Buds Live are selling for under 100! I got them for around 88€ on Amazon! If it fits good they sound good!


----------



## voicemaster (Jun 18, 2021)

diimaan said:


> Galaxy Buds Live are selling for under 100! I got them for around 88€ on Amazon! If it fits good they sound good!


I have galaxy buds live, but the problem is my wife is 8000 miles away from me and damn covid-19 prevented me to go there. Another covid-19 related that many stores not allowing potential customer to try out the galaxy buds live. I know for sure she can fit the airpods and tronsmart Onyx (suck), but since galaxy buds live has a bit different shape than airpods, I am afraid it won't fit her ears. How about Soundpeats TrueAir2? Saw pretty good review on youtube.
It is kinda frustating as I have like 10+ TWS, but only Galaxy buds live that possibly fit her ears =(.


----------



## chinmie

voicemaster said:


> Is there any TWS that is galaxy buds live style or airpod style that has good sound and good call quality, preferably under $100? My wife ears is kinda weird. Any TWS/IEMs that has silicone tips won't fit in her ears.



trueair 2 sounds good enough, but can't comment on the call quality.

other options would be the sabbat vooplay (good sound and call quality) and x12 ultra (can't comment as i only have heard the x12 pro version). there's a risk about fitting though when talking about sabbat


----------



## erockg

@miserybeforethemusic like the shady Hiby/Mifo story, check out the Lypertek z7 vs the NFPs.  Somethings fishy…


----------



## jant71 (Jun 18, 2021)

erockg said:


> @miserybeforethemusic like the shady Hiby/Mifo story, check out the Lypertek z7 vs the NFPs.  Somethings fishy…


Wait what? One is kinda bright and the other duller safer sounding, different look and housing, different case, isn't one touch and the other buttons?


and this

can't be called clones like the Mifo/Hiby can be. We know Noble can't do TWS themselves so they are involved with someone and we might know of the company but that isn't fishy.


----------



## chinmie

erockg said:


> @miserybeforethemusic like the shady Hiby/Mifo story, check out the Lypertek z7 vs the NFPs.  Somethings fishy…





jant71 said:


> Wait what? One is kinda bright and the other duller safer sounding, different look and housing, different case, isn't one touch and the other buttons?
> and thiscan't be called clones like the Mifo/Hiby can be. We know Noble can't do TWS themselves so they are involved with someone and we might know of the company but that isn't fishy.



closer to Lypertek would be MPow and Soundpeats (T5/M5 VS Tevi, or T2 VS Levi). 
but i suspect they would only use the shell and case, but put their own driver spec and tech to differentiate, just like the case of Mifo-Hiby-TFZ, QCY-Sonicast, Tronsmart-Cleer, etc


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

erockg said:


> @miserybeforethemusic like the shady Hiby/Mifo story, check out the Lypertek z7 vs the NFPs.  Somethings fishy…


Have anything in particular you want me to take a look at? Haven't heard anything related to this


----------



## erockg (Jun 18, 2021)

jant71 said:


> Wait what? One is kinda bright and the other duller safer sounding, different look and housing, different case, isn't one touch and the other buttons?
> and thiscan't be called clones like the Mifo/Hiby can be. We know Noble can't do TWS themselves so they are involved with someone and we might know of the company but that isn't fishy.


Sure, the case is different but look at the buds they’re exactly the same. Yes one has a button, one has a touch pad,


miserybeforethemusic said:


> Have anything in particular you want me to take a look at? Haven't heard anything related to this



I’ll have to pull the images and all the specs when I have a moment. But if you look online they are both pretty much the same shell, one with a button, the other with the touchpad. The NFP have a different case but the drivers are exactly the same. So someone took the same bud out there, reworked a few things but essentially put out the same thing. I could be wrong but everything I’m finding online is quite similar. 2 BA, with titanium DD.  I’m going to pick up the Lypertek and see if they sound the same for $129 less.

First pic of the buds.  I’m definitely not dreaming.

https://mightygadget.co.uk/lypertek-pureplay-z7-announced/


----------



## dweaver (Jun 18, 2021)

The reality is a lot of companies use ODM versus OEM, most Fischer headphones and a lot of Brainwav products are ODM for example. This doesn't mean its fishy it just means they are not developing and manufacturing their own products fully. It also doesn't mean they can't put their own spin on the product in regards to tuning .

BTW when we make statements like these are the same except one has touch and the other has a button... well that means they are different LOL. That change alone would necessitate completely different manufacturing processes, the bottom of the shell might be able to be the same but the tops would be completely different as well as the internal electronic components.

One last comment, the Fischer and Brainwav companies both share the same ODM for a lot of their stuff or at least they use to. Brainwav was ALWAYS cheaper... This was because they used slightly less premium cosmetic components and their marketing was geared towards value versus prestige. If you are correct about Noble and Lypertek using the same ODM I am fully on board with you wanting to use the one geared towards value over prestige  , I would also be trying Lypertek...


----------



## miserybeforethemusic (Jun 18, 2021)

erockg said:


> Sure, the case is different but look at the buds they’re exactly the same. Yes one has a button, one has a touch pad,
> 
> 
> I’ll have to pull the images and all the specs when I have a moment. But if you look online they are both pretty much the same shell, one with a button, the other with the touchpad. The NFP have a different case but the drivers are exactly the same. So someone took the same bud out there, reworked a few things but essentially put out the same thing. I could be wrong but everything I’m finding online is quite similar. 2 BA, with titanium DD.  I’m going to pick up the Lypertek and see if they sound the same for $129 less.
> ...


Ok I see the similarities. Do you think Lypertek is closely (perhaps a little too closely) the shell of the NFP?

On one hand, that would be an immense form of flatter for the Moulton Bros. On the other hand, it is a little bizarre. There's some differences I think I can detect on there aside from the endcap. Looks like the nozzle is metal, for example.

@FullCircle are we being overly paranoid here or is there some IP to protect?


dweaver said:


> The reality is a lot of companies use ODM versus OEM, most Fischer headphones and a lot of Brainwave products are ODM for example. This doesn't mean its fishy it just means they are not developing and manufacturing their own products fully. It also doesn't mean they can't put their own spin on the product in regards to tuning .
> 
> BTW when we make statements like these are the same except one has touch and the other has a button... well that means they are different LOL. That change alone would necessitate completely different manufacturing processes, the bottom of the shell might be able to be the same but the tops would be completely different as well as the internal electronic components.


Agree with this to an extent, but we have to avoid conflating in any one direction or another. It looks iffy and it may just be the case. I mentioned Jim above to put it on his radar; if it's innocent, nothing to worry about.


----------



## erockg

I’m definitely not looking for a debate here. I could care less but when I’m looking for new headphones to buy and I see something that is clearly using the same guts as the other it pisses me off. Because a lot of these companies spend  money researching and developing these things. But I understand that this is not always the case in the world that we are dabbling in. The buttons don’t mean a thing to me. You could stick in touch button or a tactile button on a pair of headphones and I adapt. Pigs are usually pigs even with a nice shade of lipstick.  I have the Noble falcon pros so I’m looking forward to comparing these do. I just hate to see an indie company get undercut by a Chinese manufacturer who may or may not be straight up.  The drivers, the chipset, the shell. Even all the features with the app. Could be coincidence, but hands-on will tell.


----------



## erockg

dweaver said:


> The reality is a lot of companies use ODM versus OEM, most Fischer headphones and a lot of Brainwav products are ODM for example. This doesn't mean its fishy it just means they are not developing and manufacturing their own products fully. It also doesn't mean they can't put their own spin on the product in regards to tuning .
> 
> BTW when we make statements like these are the same except one has touch and the other has a button... well that means they are different LOL. That change alone would necessitate completely different manufacturing processes, the bottom of the shell might be able to be the same but the tops would be completely different as well as the internal electronic components.
> 
> One last comment, the Fischer and Brainwav companies both share the same ODM for a lot of their stuff or at least they use to. Brainwav was ALWAYS cheaper... This was because they used slightly less premium cosmetic components and their marketing was geared towards value versus prestige. If you are correct about Noble and Lypertek using the same ODM I am fully on board with you wanting to use the one geared towards value over prestige  , I would also be trying Lypertek...


So do you think essentially, Lypertek paid for a piece of Noble tech then slapped on a coat of paint?


----------



## dweaver

Hi guys, I am not looking for a debate either, honest. That's part of why I edited my last post and put in the comments about Fischer versus Brainwav. Neither company truly developed and manufactured their own products (or at least they didn't at one time, not sure anymore). So if I do figure out 2 companies are using the same ODM I generally pick the cheaper of the 2 because I am more interested in value versus having slightly shinier cosmetics or buying from a more "famous" name brand.

The one thing I personally hate is out right FAKES. Now that pisses me off LOL.


----------



## dweaver

erockg said:


> So do you think essentially, Lypertek paid for a piece of Noble tech then slapped on a coat of paint?


Actually I would suspect its more case that both use the same ODM manufacturer who actually has the right contractually to mix and match components by clients. So they often end up sharing common components but each company will have certain design elements that are unique to only their product the most important being how they are tuned.


----------



## erockg

dweaver said:


> Hi guys, I am not looking for a debate either, honest. That's part of why I edited my last post and put in the comments about Fischer versus Brainwav. Neither company truly developed and manufactured their own products (or at least they didn't at one time, not sure anymore). So if I do figure out 2 companies are using the same ODM I generally pick the cheaper of the 2 because I am more interested in value versus having slightly shinier cosmetics or buying from a more "famous" name brand.
> 
> The one thing I personally hate is out right FAKES. Now that pisses me off LOL.


It’s a shame because there’s no way of telling what is an ODM unless we’re lucky enough to stumble upon something else with similarities on the Internet. It’s all a crapshoot. Unless, of course, we spend the premium on the name brands like the Sony’s, the Bose, the Noble falcon pros, etc. etc. Which is what I do nowadays so I don’t have to deal with poorly made buds.


----------



## erockg

dweaver said:


> Actually I would suspect its more case that both use the same ODM manufacturer who actually has the right contractually to mix and match components by clients. So they often end up sharing common components but each company will have certain design elements that are unique to only their product the most important being how they are tuned.


Pretty interesting. I am naïve to this part of the business. Thanks for the Intel. What’s crazy is that they’re clearly using the same armatures and drivers according to the specs. You would think that the company that created that would lock that tech down so it’s exclusive. But I guess money talks.  Purely spit bawling but maybe noble said yes you can use our armature and drivers but everything has to look the same, then the ODM manufacturer said sure and will give you this great discount on manufacturing costs. Deal!


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

dweaver said:


> Hi guys, I am not looking for a debate either, honest. That's part of why I edited my last post and put in the comments about Fischer versus Brainwav. Neither company truly developed and manufactured their own products (or at least they didn't at one time, not sure anymore). So if I do figure out 2 companies are using the same ODM I generally pick the cheaper of the 2 because I am more interested in value versus having slightly shinier cosmetics or buying from a more "famous" name brand.
> 
> The one thing I personally hate is out right FAKES. Now that pisses me off LOL.


Fakes, blatant rip-offs, or desperate attempts to be the "first to be x" are usually my red flags. Anyone remember when the default was just to advertise based on how good things fit and sound? These spec wars are getting crazy.

And I'll echo that I'm not looking for a fight, but I do remember that we have people from all ranges of experience here, so we can at least share our perspective. I'm sure someone not fully aware this is a thing will appreciate the heads up. As with most things, it's a spectrum and the devil's in the details.


erockg said:


> It’s a shame because there’s no way of telling what is an ODM unless we’re lucky enough to stumble upon something else with similarities on the Internet. It’s all a crapshoot. Unless, of course, we spend the premium on the name brands like the Sony’s, the Bose, the Noble falcon pros, etc. etc. Which is what I do nowadays so I don’t have to deal with poorly made buds.


Sometimes they admit it. Dunu made a name for themselves as an ODM before they started making their own branded products.

Realistically, this all just teaches me that trying to figure out how to apply great value to the TWS market is still completely up in the air. Some focus on ergonomics (I agree), some on sound quality, others on features, and yet others on effectively useless tools like RGB LEDs. I think this HiBy stuff snapped me out of the stupor of thinking "well, I'm getting it cheap, so it's a victimless crime" and started looking at the big picture.

What happens when the Chi-Fi market has completely shut out our own domestic one?


----------



## chinmie

erockg said:


> Sure, the case is different but look at the buds they’re exactly the same. Yes one has a button, one has a touch pad,
> 
> 
> I’ll have to pull the images and all the specs when I have a moment. But if you look online they are both pretty much the same shell, one with a button, the other with the touchpad. The NFP have a different case but the drivers are exactly the same. So someone took the same bud out there, reworked a few things but essentially put out the same thing. I could be wrong but everything I’m finding online is quite similar. 2 BA, with titanium DD.  I’m going to pick up the Lypertek and see if they sound the same for $129 less.
> ...




the back shell do look similar, with the nozzle difference being the most apparent..while the front plate, well, i'd say they're different there. now the most intriguing mystery would be whether they both share the same internals or not.
https://mightygadget.co.uk/lypertek-pureplay-z7-announced/
https://gagadget.com/noble-audio-fa...on-pro-tyoplyij-lampovyij-besprovodnyij-zvuk/

i sure will be waiting for your findings on their sound difference/similarity


----------



## dweaver (Jun 18, 2021)

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Fakes, blatant rip-offs, or desperate attempts to be the "first to be x" are usually my red flags. Anyone remember when the default was just to advertise based on how good things fit and sound? These spec wars are getting crazy.
> 
> And I'll echo that I'm not looking for a fight, but I do remember that we have people from all ranges of experience here, so we can at least share our perspective. I'm sure someone not fully aware this is a thing will appreciate the heads up. As with most things, it's a spectrum and the devil's in the details.
> 
> ...


I remember when Sennheiser started to use Chinese manufacturing for the original IE8. Within months there were a hundred knock offs all Chinese made and they were NOT all created equal... Suddenly the only way you could buy a pair online safely was if you used an authorized dealer.

Actually every time a company chooses to use Chinese manufacturing they have already given up and sold out. This is why almost all manufacturing is done in China today. This is not a knock against the Chinese people when I say that, as they are as much a victim of the situation as is the average person in other countries. The issue is government controlled race to the bottom economics where countries and corporations make an industry out of exploiting the population with low wages and inhumane work practices.

There is a global movement afoot to try and curb this practice because of the damage it causes.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

dweaver said:


> I remember when Sennheiser started to use Chinese manufacturing for the original IE8. Within months there were a hundred knock offs all Chinese made and they were NOT all created equal... Suddenly the only way you could buy a pair online safely was if you used an authorized dealer.
> 
> Actually every time a company chooses to use Chinese manufacturing they have already given up and sold out. This is why almost all manufacturing is done in China today. This is not a knock against the Chinese people when I say that, as they are as much a victim of the situation as is the average person in other countries. The issue is government controlled race to the bottom economics where countries and corporatiins make an industry out of exploiting the population with low wages and inhumane work practices.
> 
> Their is a global movement afoot to try and curb this practice because of the damage it causes.


I almost completely forgot about some of that Sennheiser controversy. Heck, I remember the first pairs that _weren't_ made in Ireland. People were completely up in arms about it.

People probably just don't see the long-term (and very simple) consequences to outsourcing manufacturing _anywhere_. Sure, you can drive down your unit cost, but nobody in your local workforce will be able to:

Create their own molds/tooling for products
Handle their own supply chains and manufacturing
Protect their own intellectual property
Stimulate a local economy by taking the money they make and spending it _there_
Give people in your own community somewhere to work
Without getting overtly political on this (it's a hobby forum, after all), I thought COVID would have snapped more people out of feeding this machine, but doesn't seem to be the case. To quote the great Dr. Malcolm (aka Mr. Goldblum):


----------



## dweaver

miserybeforethemusic said:


> I almost completely forgot about some of that Sennheiser controversy. Heck, I remember the first pairs that _weren't_ made in Ireland. People were completely up in arms about it.
> 
> People probably just don't see the long-term (and very simple) consequences to outsourcing manufacturing _anywhere_. Sure, you can drive down your unit cost, but nobody in your local workforce will be able to:
> 
> ...



One last comment then I will step off my soap box and stick to TWS .

Like or hate them, unions first developed to stop Big Business from exploiting their workers. The issue is GREED always comes in to play... So today with the "global" economy Big Business (corporations primarily) can simply move manufacturing operations to new locales when they decide their workers are too "greedy" or the local government at their current facilities is too demanding (how dare they expect us to follow humane standards, environmental standards, etc). 

So the next step in ensuring people are not abused and our planet is kept safe will be global standards that all countries have to live by, with world wide tariffs against products manufactured in countries that refuse to live by those standards. The challenge here is that poor countries where some one only makes a dollar a day and a corporation comes in and says I will give you 2 dollars a day to work in my factory is too enticing for the countries population to resist as they go from starving to subsistent living which is a huge step up. So if tariffs are introduced in gives corporations zero incentive to move to that poor country which means that the people in the poor country just continue to starve... So the other piece of the pie is to determine a means to allow for countries to join in the global economy to help their people but in a way that doesn't just exploit them in the end. In other words extremely tricky stuff...


----------



## clerkpalmer (Jun 18, 2021)

Cancelled my Beats studio order. They look decidedly average. Can’t imagine them sounding better than the CA. Just a waste of 150 at this point.


----------



## dweaver

those Beats did look interesting but not so interesting I want to run out and buy a pair... LOL.

Biggest knock for me is the battery life which seems to be an Apple universal issue. But at least they priced them more reasonably compared to the usual Beats brand name markup. Also thought they lacked a lot of features.


----------



## erockg

dweaver said:


> those Beats did look interesting but not so interesting I want to run out and buy a pair... LOL.
> 
> Biggest knock for me is the battery life which seems to be an Apple universal issue. But at least they priced them more reasonably compared to the usual Beats brand name markup. Also thought they lacked a lot of features.


Sadly, I had a credit at Apple and along with my company discount, pre-ordered.  Apple has a great return policy 

Man, the Kool Aid is delicious today.


----------



## clerkpalmer

erockg said:


> Sadly, I had a credit at Apple and along with my company discount, pre-ordered.  Apple has a great return policy
> 
> Man, the Kool Aid is delicious today.


The killer for me is reviews say they fall short of the APP for sq. I think the APP sound decent enough but I would never grab them for music.


----------



## erockg

clerkpalmer said:


> The killer for me is reviews say they fall short of the APP for sq. I think the APP sound decent enough but I would never grab them for music.


I read, watched a few that said that, but then others that say otherwise.  I figured I'll be the judge.  If there anywhere close to the size of the Earin A-3, I might dig them.  I have the APP and they definitely aren't that great IMO for sound quality.  Better with Spatial Audio/Lossless/Dolby Atmos now, but so may other options blow them away.  I only use my APP for calls and  with my Apple TV at night while doing audio share with my wife so we don't wake the kid.


----------



## clerkpalmer

erockg said:


> I read, watched a few that said that, but then others that say otherwise.  I figured I'll be the judge.  If there anywhere close to the size of the Earin A-3, I might dig them.  I have the APP and they definitely aren't that great IMO for sound quality.  Better with Spatial Audio/Lossless/Dolby Atmos now, but so may other options blow them away.  I only use my APP for calls and  with my Apple TV at night while doing audio share with my wife so we don't wake the kid.


Funny I tried some spatial audio for music with my APP the other night. Thought stereo sounded better. By a lot. Surround sound for music just ain’t my thing.


----------



## assassin10000

zeebee45 said:


> Help!
> 
> Small ear woes;
> 
> ...


Closest I've come is MMCX earbuds on TWS adapters. Sabbat X12 and Samsung Buds Live are not too far behind but none of these isolate if needed.


erockg said:


> I read, watched a few that said that, but then others that say otherwise.  I figured I'll be the judge.  If there anywhere close to the size of the Earin A-3, I might dig them.  I have the APP and they definitely aren't that great IMO for sound quality.  Better with Spatial Audio/Lossless/Dolby Atmos now, but so may other options blow them away.  I only use my APP for calls and  with my Apple TV at night while doing audio share with my wife so we don't wake the kid.



Have you by chance heard/compared the A-3 to the Buds Live?


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

assassin10000 said:


> Closest I've come is MMCX earbuds on TWS adapters. Sabbat X12 and Samsung Buds Live are not too far behind but none of these isolate if needed.


You've got an interesting idea. What about a BLON Mini with one of those TWS adapters? That'd be pretty tiny.


----------



## assassin10000 (Jun 18, 2021)

miserybeforethemusic said:


> You've got an interesting idea. What about a BLON Mini with one of those TWS adapters? That'd be pretty tiny.


Possibly.

I also used my westone um pro 10's with my old bt20 adapters. I have smaller sized concha they are so slim they were past flush with my ears. The best fitting IEM I've tried. The only one I could side sleep on. I'd feel the cable more than the IEM.


----------



## erockg

clerkpalmer said:


> Funny I tried some spatial audio for music with my APP the other night. Thought stereo sounded better. By a lot. Surround sound for music just ain’t my thing.


The same for me. A lot of the Dolby Atmos tracks are worse than the original mix. I mean I get it it’s a new tech but I’d rather listen to some of the classics the way they were originally intended to be heard. Although, I was listening to one of The Who  remastered albums in Atmos and it was absolutely fantastic.


----------



## erockg

assassin10000 said:


> Closest I've come is MMCX earbuds on TWS adapters. Sabbat X12 and Samsung Buds Live are not too far behind but none of these isolate if needed.
> 
> 
> Have you by chance heard/compared the A-3 to the Buds Live?


I had the Buds Live early on and they just kept disconnecting from my iPhone so I returned them. I did like the sound (although I haven’t really loved the sound signature of many of Samsung‘s earbuds) and I felt that they had a bit more isolation then the Earin.  The Earins are much smaller and feel much more premium.  Sound is definitely great but remember, they are an open ear earbud where as the Galaxy buds live have a bit more isolation. Really depends on what you are looking for.  I prefer Earin.


----------



## bladefd

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Fakes, blatant rip-offs, or desperate attempts to be the "first to be x" are usually my red flags. Anyone remember when the default was just to advertise based on how good things fit and sound? These spec wars are getting crazy.
> 
> And I'll echo that I'm not looking for a fight, but I do remember that we have people from all ranges of experience here, so we can at least share our perspective. I'm sure someone not fully aware this is a thing will appreciate the heads up. As with most things, it's a spectrum and the devil's in the details.
> 
> ...


That's what they are trying to do. So far, they have succeeded. The Chinese government has been pushing that sort of business practices for decades. Their goal is to grow their economy by any means, especially by pushing their products into western developed countries to slowly shift wealth. Since they have been single party going back to the days of Mao, they have not had a lot of diffusion of new ideas or leaders to change how they run things. Their leaders are chosen from that single party's point of view so they have all like-minded ideas disseminating between and through the generations without many major changes. That allows them to also think long-term much better than say an open democracy that is built around diffusion of new ideas & people.

Anyways, I'm getting off topic now. Back to TWS!


----------



## assassin10000

erockg said:


> I had the Buds Live early on and they just kept disconnecting from my iPhone so I returned them. I did like the sound (although I haven’t really loved the sound signature of many of Samsung‘s earbuds) and I felt that they had a bit more isolation then the Earin.  The Earins are much smaller and feel much more premium.  Sound is definitely great but remember, they are an open ear earbud where as the Galaxy buds live have a bit more isolation. Really depends on what you are looking for.  I prefer Earin.


I'm well aware. 

I prefer earbuds with no isolation to any kind of ambient or hear through implementation I've heard so far.


I'm just wondering how well they'll stay in my (smaller) ears and sound/comfort.


----------



## erockg (Jun 18, 2021)

assassin10000 said:


> I'm well aware.
> 
> I prefer earbuds with no isolation to any kind of ambient or hear through implementation I've heard so far.
> 
> ...


When I wear them I hardly know they even exist when I’m not playing music.  I generally have a bigger ears when it comes to headphone fitment. If yours are small I would bet you would get a better fit with them than I do.

Earin sent me a coupon code for Father’s Day for those interested. 

“Silver Earin A-3, from June 15-21, 2021. Use the discount code:* FathersDay* at checkout.”

You’d have to order them direct from Earin. I did see that they were 20% off on Amazon a few days ago but I don’t know if that is still live.


----------



## assassin10000

erockg said:


> When I wear them I hardly know they even exist when I’m not playing music.  I generally have a bigger ears when it comes to headphone fitment. If yours are small I would bet you would get a better fit with them than I do.
> 
> Earin sent me a coupon code for Father’s Day for those interested.
> 
> ...


Just checked, Amazon does still have the 20% off. Ordered.


----------



## erockg

assassin10000 said:


> Just checked, Amazon does still have the 20% off. Ordered.


Very cool. Definitely worth a shot especially with Amazons great return policy. Looking forward to hearing your thoughts.


----------



## samandhi

I remember a time before Chi-Fi was a huge thing, the Xioami Piston 2s came out and were an absolute hit at something like $20. Another company decided that they would copy them (fake them), and sell them for $12 (just... why?). It was very hard to tell the difference by just looking at them, but you could definitely tell by listening to them because even a lot of "audiophiles" really liked the Piston 2s (myself included, I still have 2 pairs). This is the sort of thing that absolutely p**ses me off. 

My point is to beware where you order from (and all that lecture stuff) because there are a lot of companies that are _only_ out to make a profit, _even_ at the expense of others (or regardless if the product is considered palatable or not). In some ways it is getting easier to spot those companies (if you are honest with yourself when you see the signs), because they are getting bolder in things like how they deal with customers, how they offer the product, how they deal with its lifecycle (updates, customer service, vaporware), etc...

Just had to get my 2 cents in there! And now, back to the regularly scheduled programming - TWS...


----------



## jant71

@erockg






Okay, not seeing exactly the same housing either.

Doesn't even matter in the end. Is Cambridge fishy since the the Vodo Vibe came first?


----------



## regancipher

For those that like their TWS budget, three new reviews:

SoundPEATS H1
KZ SKS
Haylou W1


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

jant71 said:


> Doesn't even matter in the end. Is Cambridge fishy since the the Vodo Vibe came first?


Not sure if you're expecting this to provoke an argument, but...

Yes. And I believe it should look fishy for anybody when parts-sharing like this occurs. Were it not for this discussion, I sure would have believed that the MTs were a completely original build. Call me gullible if you will. Here's the difference: if I ask Cambridge why they're similar, I'm far more likely to get an honest answer. You saw that exchange with HiBy; it's either biting sarcasm, all caps tirades, or back-pedaling.

I get that some people just want cheap, good-sounding stuff and the pursuit of that is what keeps them in this hobby. If that's the case, don't let me knock your hustle, but at least understand where we're coming from. In Western business, we kinda value ethics over a bargain.


----------



## jsmiller58 (Jun 18, 2021)

jant71 said:


> @erockg
> 
> Okay, not seeing exactly the same housing either.
> 
> Doesn't even matter in the end. Is Cambridge fishy since the the Vodo Vibe came first?


Just to understand...  Do they share a shell, or do they share internals, features, and tuning?  I disagree there is anything "fishy" about the same appearance - the only issue with that is if they did not have the right to reuse the physical design.  Common internals, tuning, and features...  That would be a major issue.


----------



## jant71 (Jun 18, 2021)

jsmiller58 said:


> Just to understand...  Do they share a shell, or do they share internals, features, and tuning?


They are different is the point. One is oval with a tapered top with a button and the other is rounder with a guitar pick shape touch control on top. You can tell the plastic is different and the shape is different. They have 3 drivers and the same Qualcomm chip but so do others like Aviot which is on there 2nd version triple hybrid.

So, I just said it is not near the Mifo/Hiby deal so best to not even go there. I also said if a company like Cambridge want to use a housing already used once before to save money that is fine. Hopefully it keeps the price down for us. Obviously like Noble and Grado they(Cambridge) get help to make a TWS set. Noble promises no off the shelf parts but you pay $329.

Just stick to the Hiby/Mifo thing but that is China for you and again a DAP maker making a TWS so they took off the shelf parts and people can judge if the price is better that way and if they want to wait for reviews regarding the sound vs. the Mifo. The LDAC implementation and battery life in real world use are all a bit wait and see more than a Sony that is safer to buy blind. I myself think they did enough internally that they are not the Mifo but just my opinion and how well they did I am not sure. I would only be interested in the dual armature anyhow. Looks like the Mifo doesn't mean it is just a rebrand in a similar way to the Cambridge is not the Vibe.


----------



## jsmiller58

jant71 said:


> They are different is the point. One is oval with a tapered top with a button and the other is rounder with a guitar pick shape touch control on top. You can tell the plastic is different and the shape is different. They have 3 drivers and the same Qualcomm chip but so do others like Aviot which is on there 2nd version triple hybrid.
> 
> So, I just said it is not near the Mifo/Hiby deal so best to not even go there. I also said if a company like Cambridge want to use a housing already used once before to save money that is fine. Hopefully it keeps the price down for us. Obviously like Noble and Grado they(Cambridge) get help to make a TWS set. Noble promises no off the shelf parts but you pay $329.
> 
> Just stick to the Hiby/Mifo thing but that is China for you and again a DAP maker making a TWS so they took off the shelf parts and people can judge if the price is better that way and if they want to wait for reviews regarding the sound vs. the Mifo. The LDAC implementation and battery life in real world use are all a bit wait and see more than a Sony that is safer to buy blind. I myself think they did enough internally that they are not the Mifo but just my opinion and how well they did I am not sure. I would only be interested in the dual armature anyhow. Looks like the Mifo doesn't mean it is just a rebrand in a similar way to the Cambridge is not the Vibe.


Got it!  Sorry I read too much into it


----------



## erockg

jsmiller58 said:


> Just to understand...  Do they share a shell, or do they share internals, features, and tuning?  I disagree there is anything "fishy" about the same appearance - the only issue with that is if they did not have the right to reuse the physical design.  Common internals, tuning, and features...  That would be a major issue.


Bottom of the shell is the same. Top has a button whereas the Noble falcon Pros have a touchpad. They also share the same drivers. Same Qualcomm chip.  Same battery live in the buds. I’ll have them on Wednesday so I’m looking forward to seeing them up close. You can read more within this chain earlier today because we had a great and informative discussion about it. I learned something new - ODM.  I will bet that is what the case is here. It just means that Lypertek may have gotten some of the same tech. It’s a possibility. Looking forward to comparing the two.


----------



## SemiAudiophile (Jun 18, 2021)

dweaver said:


> The reality is a lot of companies use ODM versus OEM, most Fischer headphones and a lot of Brainwav products are ODM for example. This doesn't mean its fishy it just means they are not developing and manufacturing their own products fully. It also doesn't mean they can't put their own spin on the product in regards to tuning .
> 
> BTW when we make statements like these are the same except one has touch and the other has a button... well that means they are different LOL. That change alone would necessitate completely different manufacturing processes, the bottom of the shell might be able to be the same but the tops would be completely different as well as the internal electronic components.
> 
> One last comment, the Fischer and Brainwav companies both share the same ODM for a lot of their stuff or at least they use to. Brainwav was ALWAYS cheaper... This was because they used slightly less premium cosmetic components and their marketing was geared towards value versus prestige. If you are correct about Noble and Lypertek using the same ODM I am fully on board with you wanting to use the one geared towards value over prestige  , I would also be trying Lypertek...


Yeah seems pretty common practice to me. 🤷🏻‍♂️











Edit: yeah the vodo vibe looks even more similar

It's actually what turned me off from the Melomania Touch because of the design. And we'll I'm not really  a fan of touch controls either.

I bought those taotronics sound liberty 79 above specifically for calls a while back.  DO NOT BUY. It's a piece of crap. I would stick with Jabra's or APP.


----------



## C_Lindbergh

Was there any talk about CA releasing a new software update for the MT in June? I think I remember seeing that earlier this month in this thread.


----------



## jsmiller58

C_Lindbergh said:


> Was there any talk about CA releasing a new software update for the MT in June? I think I remember seeing that earlier this month in this thread.


I thought I saw something to that effect as well...!


----------



## samandhi

-----


C_Lindbergh said:


> Was there any talk about CA releasing a new software update for the MT in June? I think I remember seeing that earlier this month in this thread.


Yeah, I believe that @miserybeforethemusic mentioned something about beginning of next month possibly.


----------



## howdy

I'll cross post this here.

Anyone have any comparison between the Sennheiser MTW1 vs. MTW2 strictly sound quality. Are they the same sounding or completely different?


----------



## samandhi

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Although, if you're willing to wait it out until the end of the month, there is a MT firmware update that's coming around the corner and should address some of those issues you're facing.


Yep!


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

C_Lindbergh said:


> Was there any talk about CA releasing a new software update for the MT in June? I think I remember seeing that earlier this month in this thread.


Looks like @samandhi found it. Yep, that was me and what I understood. Still waiting patiently myself


----------



## C_Lindbergh

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Looks like @samandhi found it. Yep, that was me and what I understood. Still waiting patiently myself



Cool, I'll prob return the Sony XM4 if CA finally can adress all the remaning technical issues, and then be satisifed until we get proper LC3/BT 5.2 premium TWS. The price to performance ratio on the CA MT is just insane, just shame the various issues has taken over the discussion about them.


----------



## bladefd (Jun 18, 2021)

SemiAudiophile said:


> Yeah seems pretty common practice to me. 🤷🏻‍♂️
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Outer shell of Vodo vibe & case looks almost exactly the same as MT. That's not good - it makes me curious about the insides. Vodo vibe doesn't seem to have an app, no qualcomm aptx, and probably a different software portion at least.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

C_Lindbergh said:


> Cool, I'll prob return the Sony XM4 if CA finally can adress all the remaning technical issues, and then be satisifed until we get proper LC3/BT 5.2 premium TWS. The price to performance ratio on the CA MT is just insane, just shame the various issues has taken over the discussion about them.


Agreed. It's such an easy pair to recommend on sound, but those usability issues are just that...issues. Roadblocks. Keeping my fingers crossed with you.


bladefd said:


> Outer shell of Vodo vibe looks almost exactly the same. That's not good - it makes me curious about the insides. Vodo vibe doesn't seem to have an app, no qualcomm aptx, and probably a different software portion at least.


Think I see where this is all coming.

Let's assume the coding/implementation is going to matter more than the hardware. We're probably so far down the road in dealing with consequences from this that we're arguing over the symptoms instead of paying attention to the problem, but let's entertain this anyway. As long as a business operates with integrity, this shouldn't be a problem. I don't see why any business wouldn't have an issue explaining the similarities, either, but I don't think that's what's happening anymore. I think that we, as consumers, have become complacent to a degree where we blindly trust companies to operate with integrity while they chase minimum parts/development cost, maximum profit, giving us cheap expendable plastic that's really all the same candy with a different wrapper. Or same drivers in a different shell. Or even same shell, different drivers. The biggest problem is they're not required to communicate _any of that_.

Supporting that doesn't sit right with me. I know from experience that a good amount of companies really don't care anyway. The business model doesn't support it, the supply chain doesn't support it, and we owe it to ourselves for having gotten there. The real question is what can you do now to separate the wheat from the chaff? The "dude, trust me" approach doesn't work anymore. I don't know how many of them _can_ be trusted. I mean I get that some of you would rather I just kept my mouth shut about it and we talked about the latest gear, but I think this is important. It's your hobby and mine and I want there to be a semblance of originality left in a couple years.


----------



## PixelSquish

I'm looking forward to CA's next release. I'm hoping they go for the gold with ANC and longer battery life too.


----------



## SemiAudiophile

bladefd said:


> Outer shell of Vodo vibe & case looks almost exactly the same as MT. That's not good - it makes me curious about the insides. Vodo vibe doesn't seem to have an app, no qualcomm aptx, and probably a different software portion at least.


I'm sure the insides are different. I'm just not surprised that the designs are being borrowed from others. Some companies are just lazy and make it blatantly obvious, while others will change a few things here and there. Just like cars or other products. There only so much variations in the design one can make. At some point they are all going to look like each other. 

Which is why I much prefer the M1 over the touch. Since it's an original design and it took them some time and effort into making it.


----------



## nekonhime

I just got nuarl n10 pro today from Amazon for (176$) and i will say it quite good. Its have large soundstage, clarification is ok, but I still hear some hss sound when I listen to songs that performed by female singers.


----------



## cresny

I missed the off-topic veer a little bit back, about Shenzhen and intellectual property, but I'll indulge even if the party is over. I think anyone who buys chi-fi might be interested to view this doc (which was also mentioned in the video @miserybeforethemusic posted). It's very well made. 

If you care to go way out into the very deep end (and I'm not sure I recommend it!), have a look at this self-published work by the late Pieter Hintjens, an influential Open Source figure who had some very interesting ideas:
https://itjumpstart.files.wordpress.com/2015/03/culture-empire.pdf
Basically, the Shenzhen genie is out of the bottle, and the little things we enjoy stuffing in our ears is just a tiny part of what is probably to to come.


----------



## Audio Fun

I don’t usually listen to the wireless earphones for more than a hour, as I got plenty of great sounding wired IEMs out there, and the wireless just doesn’t sound that good. But, I change my mind, I can stick with my Geekfly GF8s for a day.

Do check out my review here if you interested for one of the best TWS earbuds out there.
My review: https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/geekfly-gf8s.25193/reviews#review-26102


----------



## 100Pipers

Managed to drop enough hints for my sons to me the Devialet Gemini for my birthday today, so I am happy


----------



## samandhi

100Pipers said:


> Managed to drop enough hints for my sons to me the Devialet Gemini for my birthday today, so I am happy


Gratz! And, happy birthday also!


----------



## nekonhime

Hi, any nuarl n10 pro user here can help me with the connectivity issue?
My earbuds keep disconnected for some times, so I tried to forget then repairing the buds many time but the connection issue keep happening. 
P/s: I already update the buds through the app.


----------



## samandhi

nekonhime said:


> Hi, any nuarl n10 pro user here can help me with the connectivity issue?
> My earbuds keep disconnected for some times, so I tried to forget then repairing the buds many time but the connection issue keep happening.
> P/s: I already update the buds through the app.


Did you try and put them back in the charging case, give a few seconds, then take them out to re-connect?


----------



## nekonhime

samandhi said:


> Did you try and put them back in the charging case, give a few seconds, then take them out to re-connect?


Yes, I did. I even reset my phone (rog phone 2)


----------



## tinyman392 (Jun 19, 2021)

nekonhime said:


> Hi, any nuarl n10 pro user here can help me with the connectivity issue?
> My earbuds keep disconnected for some times, so I tried to forget then repairing the buds many time but the connection issue keep happening.
> P/s: I already update the buds through the app.


Try to reset the buds to factory defaults and see if that helps.  How to do this will differ with each type of ear bud though, so I have no instructions on how to do that.

Stupid idea, but if there is a master-slave relationship with the buds, it might help to switch pockets/relative position of the phone to the buds.  Granted I haven’t run into the issue with newer BT headphones, some older ones had distinct dead spots for me when I had them in my left pocket (where my phone normally is) vs my right.


----------



## nekonhime

tinyman392 said:


> Try to reset the buds to factory defaults and see if that helps.  How to do this will differ with each type of ear bud though, so I have no instructions on how to do that.
> 
> Stupid idea, but if there is a master-slave relationship with the buds, it might help to switch pockets/relative position of the phone to the buds.  Granted I haven’t run into the issue with newer BT headphones, some older ones had distinct dead spots for me when I had them in my left pocket (where my phone normally is) vs my right.


This one have master and slave function and it kinda useless tbh. Also, I already try to switch the earbuds but the issue still there.


----------



## cigarello

Hey guys should I get the t1 pro or geekfly gf8? Thanks


----------



## tinyman392

nekonhime said:


> This one have master and slave function and it kinda useless tbh. Also, I already try to switch the earbuds but the issue still there.


So you did a factory reset of the earbuds too?


----------



## nekonhime

tinyman392 said:


> So you did a factory reset of the earbuds too?


I just did so let see. I hope it gonna work because I have taken liking to this pair


----------



## tinyman392

nekonhime said:


> I just did so let see. I hope it gonna work because I have taken liking to this pair


Fingers crossed 🤞


----------



## smith

100Pipers said:


> Managed to drop enough hints for my sons to me the Devialet Gemini for my birthday today, so I am happy


I have had my for a few weeks now ....they sound superb with great ANC...happy birthday to you as well....


----------



## Luchyres

smith said:


> I have had my for a few weeks now ....they sound superb with great ANC...happy birthday to you as well....


I also just received the Devialet Gemini after the Sony XM4 and I must say I really, really appreciate the sound. I haven't had any hiccups with the case or functionality, the ANC works, the sound is fantastic, calls are clear - my two main complaints at this time are:

1) Case size. This thing is ungainly, though well built. 
2) Volume control on the buds - am I missing something?

I'm awaiting the JBL Tour Pro+ to compare, but as of right now the Devialet Gemini's are a keeper for me unless they are soundly unseated.


----------



## Taz777

After an aborted ownership of the MTW2 as the seller sent used ones rather than the new ones I expected, I'm creating a shortlist again which comprises of:


*Bowers & Wilkins PI7*
*Sony WF-1000XM4*
*Cambridge Audio Melomania 1 Plus*
*Sennheiser Momentum True Wireless 2*
*Apple AirPods Pro*
*Master & Dynamic MW08*

The source is an iPhone running Neutron Music Player and TIDAL playing mostly CD-quality 16/44.1 lossless music with some Hi-Res 24/96 and some MQA tracks.

Of those, which should be at the top of the list for sound quality?


----------



## 100Pipers

Thanks for all the birthday salutations.  Spent several hours with the Devialet Gemini, find them very similar to the pi7 but a little bit louder and treble is probably a tad clearer on the pi7. Volume is quite low when using Samsung S20 ultra as source but a lot louder when using the Sony n55l (no eu volume limit). Pairing very simple unlike the pi7 that won’t connect to the Sony nw55l without going through the app on a phone. ANC seems good but I’m in my house so I shall test it when I go on the tube and train tomorrow. On a sidenote; the Gemini come with tips that seem too small for them, they do have a silicon filter (prob a bad wax guard) so I’m using Comply, although going to try Spinfits later today, whilst the pi7 come with some of the best standard included tips I’ve seen recently with two felt type filters in each tip (they work really well to tame the bass on the m&d mw08). Need to get a better source device so I’m considering the A&K alpha which I’ve seen reduced to £499.00 (always like the idea of a dap with 2 sd card slots).


----------



## mainguy (Jun 20, 2021)

Taz777 said:


> After an aborted ownership of the MTW2 as the seller sent used ones rather than the new ones I expected, I'm creating a shortlist again which comprises of:
> 
> 
> *Bowers & Wilkins PI7*
> ...


Be wary with the iPhone. I have an iPhone and an Xperia 1 ii, I also have the PI7. Ive extensively gone back and forth between the two testing side by side, the SQ on the Xperia is noticeably better. Like a big jump, enough to take me aback as before I did the testing I had no idea BT sources varied so much. I think you might be doing the PI7 and the XM4 a disservice using on an iPhone personally, or just be aware you're hearing them in a handicapped state. Bloody annoying too as im a bit of an iPhone fanboy otherwise.

Of those I've owned the MTW2, APP and MW07+ (MW08 kind of) and PI7. Pi7 sound the best by a good margin for me.


----------



## C_Lindbergh

I'm a huge fan of IEM's made out of resin, how well would that material transmitt a BT signal if you were to create a pair of IEMs made of resin? Or is it just a cost question?


----------



## nekonhime (Jun 20, 2021)

tinyman392 said:


> Fingers crossed 🤞


Yeah, I think I will return the pair to get the nuarl n10 plus or the sony wf1000xm4 ,which have the 5.2 bluetooth because the connectivity issue still there and I give up on this (this even worse than my kz e10).


----------



## nekonhime

C_Lindbergh said:


> I'm a huge fan of IEM's made out of resin, how well would that material transmitt a BT signal if you were to create a pair of IEMs made of resin? Or is it just a cost question?


It just about how much money you willing to pay.


----------



## Taz777

mainguy said:


> Be wary with the iPhone. I have an iPhone and an Xperia 1 ii, I also have the PI7. Ive extensively gone back and forth between the two testing side by side, the SQ on the Xperia is noticeably better. Like a big jump, enough to take me aback as before I did the testing I had no idea BT sources varied so much. I think you might be doing the PI7 and the XM4 a disservice using on an iPhone personally, or just be aware you're hearing them in a handicapped state. Bloody annoying too as im a bit of an iPhone fanboy otherwise.
> 
> Of those I've owned the MTW2, APP and MW07+ (MW08 kind of) and PI7. Pi7 sound the best by a good margin for me.


Thank you for the advice! Indeed, I am hampered by using an iPhone as my main phone (although I do have an LG V30+ which can do LDAC but it's just a backup phone). I'm trying to get down to using just one phone. I use Neutron Music Player on iOS sounds which is very, very good and can do bit-perfect replay.

I have to stick with iPhone as I'm completely in the Apple ecosystem so it'll be Bluetooth AAC at best.

I'm going to see if there's any deals to be had on MW08 or PI7.


----------



## CocaCola15 (Jun 20, 2021)

I have only owned the Sony XM4 from your list, so I can't speak about sound quality for the others (although of course they all have fans here). But I really like the Melomania 1+ and think it gets overlooked on HF. It's on sale on Amazon (US and UK I believe) right now for $119, $20 off the price I paid. With the foam tips, I am just a fan of the form factor (not pretty, but build like a tank, and comfortable with the foam tips, my preference). While it seems unlikely a $119 BT in-ear could compete with all the TOTL BT phones you listed, as mentioned I had the new Sony and returned it. Sound was very good, but I just didn't think they were worth the asking price compared to the M1+ for a few reasons. One was fit, I kept having to mess with them to get them sealed (using the app, which does tell you if the seal is right or not). That's a pain to me, since I use these phones for moving around, not sitting in a chair.

On a related note, I noticed the CA Melomania Touch is no longer listed for sale on Amazon. I tried using the search and went to the CA Amazon Store; not there. It is still for sale on CA's US site. Weird. I read a few pages back that CA is about to offer another FW update for the Touch at month's end. I also have and find a great price to performance value re sound quality with the Touch. Excellent comfort too. Neither CA models offer ANC, but the M1+ with foam tips is all the NC I need.

By coincidence, I have an iPhone (8+ right now) and an LG V30, which I use as a DAP at home.


----------



## Taz777

CocaCola15 said:


> I have only owned the Sony XM4 from your list, so I can't speak about sound quality for the others (although of course they all have fans here). But I really like the Melomania 1+ and think it gets overlooked on HF. It's on sale on Amazon (US and UK I believe) right now for $119, $20 off the price I paid. With the foam tips, I am just a fan of the form factor (not pretty, but build like a tank, and comfortable with the foam tips, my preference). While it seems unlikely a $119 BT in-ear could compete with all the TOTL BT phones you listed, as mentioned I had the new Sony and returned it. Sound was very good, but I just didn't think they were worth the asking price compared to the M1+ for a few reasons. One was fit, I kept having to mess with them to get them sealed (using the app, which does tell you if the seal is right or not). That's a pain to me, since I use these phones for moving around, not sitting in a chair.
> 
> On a related note, I noticed the CA Melomania Touch is no longer listed for sale on Amazon. I tried using the search and went to the CA Amazon Store; not there. It is still for sale on CA's US site. Weird. I read a few pages back that CA is about to offer another FW update for the Touch at month's end. I also have and find a great price to performance value re sound quality with the Touch. Excellent comfort too. Neither CA models offer ANC, but the M1+ with foam tips is all the NC I need.
> 
> By coincidence, I have an iPhone (8+ right now) and an LG V30, which I use as a DAP at home.


Valuable advice, thank you! I'm pulling the trigger tomorrow on one from my list. Incidentally, I use my V30 as a DAP too around the home and it's such a great device for things like that. Yeah, the Melomania 1+ seems outstanding for money but rarely gets talked about. I can see the discount on it at the moment and I'm hoping it lasts until tomorrow at least when I will buy whatever I end up deciding to buy!

I have plenty of (wired) headphones for listening at home (and on a plane). And, like you, I want a wireless system for when I'm active - like going on long walks.

I'll put the Meolmania 1+ high up on my list now. Do you have any experience of making WhatsApp or regular phone calls with the Melomania 1+? Several months ago I returned a pair of APP as the fit and music quality was good, but people could hardly hear me on calls. Now this might be down to the iPhone XS Max that I was using then, which seems to get a lot of search hits for poor BT headset call quality. I also got poor call quality using a Plantronics Voyager 5200 headset with my XS Max.

Anyway, many thanks for your input.


----------



## clerkpalmer

mainguy said:


> Be wary with the iPhone. I have an iPhone and an Xperia 1 ii, I also have the PI7. Ive extensively gone back and forth between the two testing side by side, the SQ on the Xperia is noticeably better. Like a big jump, enough to take me aback as before I did the testing I had no idea BT sources varied so much. I think you might be doing the PI7 and the XM4 a disservice using on an iPhone personally, or just be aware you're hearing them in a handicapped state. Bloody annoying too as im a bit of an iPhone fanboy otherwise.
> 
> Of those I've owned the MTW2, APP and MW07+ (MW08 kind of) and PI7. Pi7 sound the best by a good margin for me.


I’m not saying you are not correct but I frankly don’t understand how this is possible. Apples AAC implementation is excellent. After that, the phone doesn’t really do much for a BT headset. The DAC and Amp are on the buds themselves. I ran the pI7 over an iPhone, a Pixel and an iPhone using the AptxHD adapter. Maybe it’s my old ears but I could not tell much difference and certainly wouldn’t declare the iPhone handicapped. I just don’t see what variances they phone offers in this chain other than some volume control.


----------



## Jhericurls (Jun 20, 2021)

Why isn't there any threads for the Master and Dynamic MW08?  I ordered a pair recently and having used them briefly, I'll be returning them.

My initial plan was to upgrade my WF-1000XM3 to the MX4 but because of the massive price hike I decided maybe I should explore other premium options.  I did plan on trying the Pi7 but that short battery life was a deal breaker and next up for best sound quality was MW08 according to the reviews.

The sound quality of the MW08 is good but its too bright and didn't have the warmth or energy of the XM3. Then there is the ANC or lack of, you will be hard pressed to tell if its on or off, it's so subtle.  All this is a shame as the earphones itself is great, love the physical buttons, size, build and fit.


----------



## clerkpalmer

Jhericurls said:


> Why isn't there any threads for the Master and Dynamic MW08?  I ordered a pair recently and having used them briefly, I'll be returning them.
> 
> My initial plan was to upgrade my WF-1000XM3 to the MX4 but because of the massive price hike I decided maybe I should explore other premium options.  I did plan on trying the Pi7 but that short battery life was a deal breaker and next up for best sound quality was MW08 according to the reviews.
> 
> The sound quality of the MW08 is good but its too bright and didn't have the warmth or energy of the XM3. Then there is the ANC or lack of, you will be hard pressed to tell if its on or off, it's so subtle.  All this is a shame as the earphones itself is great, love the physical buttons, size, build and fit.


I haven’t heard the mw08 described as bright. My set was muddy and overly warm. I wonder if something is wrong with your set.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

Jhericurls said:


> Why isn't there any threads for the Master and Dynamic MW08?  I ordered a pair recently and having used them briefly, I'll be returning them.
> 
> My initial plan was to upgrade my WF-1000XM3 to the MX4 but because of the massive price hike I decided maybe I should explore other premium options.  I did plan on trying the Pi7 but that short battery life was a deal breaker and next up for best sound quality was MW08 according to the reviews.
> 
> The sound quality of the MW08 is good but its too bright and didn't have the warmth or energy of the XM3. Then there is the ANC or lack of, you will be hard pressed to tell if its on or off, it's so subtle.  All this is a shame as the earphones itself is great, love the physical buttons, size, build and fit.


Not enough hype and interest, probably. A lot of us have found it easier to use one collective TWS thread instead of building individual ones.

And I might catch flak for this, but it really does seem like the TWS hype train runs similar to the Chi-Fi train when it was just leaving the station. I don't think dedicated threads for individual stuff would last as long.


----------



## clerkpalmer

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Not enough hype and interest, probably. A lot of us have found it easier to use one collective TWS thread instead of building individual ones.
> 
> And I might catch flak for this, but it really does seem like the TWS hype train runs similar to the Chi-Fi train when it was just leaving the station. I don't think dedicated threads for individual stuff would last as long.


Probably not except for flagship models from the big manufacturers. APP thread petered out. The pI7 and XM4 threads are pretty solid though. XM4 is like 40 pages strong.


----------



## gwompki

100Pipers said:


> Thanks for all the birthday salutations.  Spent several hours with the Devialet Gemini, find them very similar to the pi7 but a little bit louder and treble is probably a tad clearer on the pi7. Volume is quite low when using Samsung S20 ultra as source but a lot louder when using the Sony n55l (no eu volume limit). Pairing very simple unlike the pi7 that won’t connect to the Sony nw55l without going through the app on a phone. ANC seems good but I’m in my house so I shall test it when I go on the tube and train tomorrow. On a sidenote; the Gemini come with tips that seem too small for them, they do have a silicon filter (prob a bad wax guard) so I’m using Comply, although going to try Spinfits later today, whilst the pi7 come with some of the best standard included tips I’ve seen recently with two felt type filters in each tip (they work really well to tame the bass on the m&d mw08). Need to get a better source device so I’m considering the A&K alpha which I’ve seen reduced to £499.00 (always like the idea of a dap with 2 sd card slots).



I have just ordered a set of Geminis.  In my journey so far I have had the XM3, the XM4 and currently the Bose QC. Buds.  I like the Bose for the most part, certainly more than the Sony's in terms of sound signature.   It sounds like the Geminis tick all of my boxes from the reviews I have read, but we shall see once I receive them on Wednesday.


----------



## samandhi

clerkpalmer said:


> I’m not saying you are not correct but I frankly don’t understand how this is possible. Apples AAC implementation is excellent. After that, the phone doesn’t really do much for a BT headset. The DAC and Amp are on the buds themselves. I ran the pI7 over an iPhone, a Pixel and an iPhone using the AptxHD adapter. Maybe it’s my old ears but I could not tell much difference and certainly wouldn’t declare the iPhone handicapped. I just don’t see what variances they phone offers in this chain other than some volume control.


In a way you are both right. A BT transport is a BT transport, regardless of the phone/DAP you are using. The difference here is potentially twofold:

If AAC is being used on the iPhone, but LDAC on android, you might hear the difference because of the bitrate differences.
Apple does not allow true bit perfect playing, and captures any/all signals going to output (or in this case BT) and adds their own system DSP. This is part of the reason that other system-wide EQ apps don't work (unless you have jailbroken the device). To test this, you can start a playback on iPhone, then go into the EQ settings and chance it. You will hear a difference. This will hold true even for known audiophile apps like Neutron, UAPP, etc... (unless they have changed that behavior since last I had/used an iDevice). 
There may be another explanation, but atm I can't think of it. Just know that as long as there is no DSP being applied ALL BT transport devices should sound exactly the same because, as @clerkpalmer said, the DAC and the AMP are both onboard the buds themselves, and the device is ONLY a transport.

Even the volumes will be the same, unless the device has a cap. Example; all volumes can be seen as 0-100. If a manufacturer puts a cap, it will now be 0-85 (something like that). You can also add a "volume booster", but these don't actually make the initial volume somehow go higher, they simply add software gain on top of the already 100% volume, therefore adding distortion/clipping. These are gimmick apps, but you may not notice as much if you have crappy IEMs/headphones/TWS.


----------



## DigDub

Jhericurls said:


> Why isn't there any threads for the Master and Dynamic MW08?  I ordered a pair recently and having used them briefly, I'll be returning them.
> 
> My initial plan was to upgrade my WF-1000XM3 to the MX4 but because of the massive price hike I decided maybe I should explore other premium options.  I did plan on trying the Pi7 but that short battery life was a deal breaker and next up for best sound quality was MW08 according to the reviews.
> 
> The sound quality of the MW08 is good but its too bright and didn't have the warmth or energy of the XM3. Then there is the ANC or lack of, you will be hard pressed to tell if its on or off, it's so subtle.  All this is a shame as the earphones itself is great, love the physical buttons, size, build and fit.


It sounds like you didn't get a good seal with the mw08.


----------



## TK33

clerkpalmer said:


> I haven’t heard the mw08 described as bright. My set was muddy and overly warm. I wonder if something is wrong with your set.




This agrees with alot of the feedback I have read.

@Jhericurls I actually stayed away from the MW08 because of reports of more/muddy bass.  Something sounding bright could also be a fit issue with the tips not creating a proper seal. I sometimes have to use different size tips for different TWS.  For example,  I usually use medium tips (currently using M Final Audio Type E on my Senn MTW and M Spinfit CP100z on my PI7) but I have to use L tips on my MW07 Go (both Final Audio Type E and Spinfit CP100z). May be worth tip rolling if you havent done so already.  

The technology keeps advancing way too quickly and there are constantly new releases coming out, which is why I think this thread is great.


----------



## mainguy

samandhi said:


> In a way you are both right. A BT transport is a BT transport, regardless of the phone/DAP you are using. The difference here is potentially twofold:
> 
> If AAC is being used on the iPhone, but LDAC on android, you might hear the difference because of the bitrate differences.
> Apple does not allow true bit perfect playing, and captures any/all signals going to output (or in this case BT) and adds their own system DSP. This is part of the reason that other system-wide EQ apps don't work (unless you have jailbroken the device). To test this, you can start a playback on iPhone, then go into the EQ settings and chance it. You will hear a difference. This will hold true even for known audiophile apps like Neutron, UAPP, etc... (unless they have changed that behavior since last I had/used an iDevice).
> ...


This might be true in theory, but it isnt in pratice. A/B test it, I implore you!

I had my PI7 with my XS Max happily. Then by chance I tried them with an Aptx HD device, and immediately noticed something. Then some serious side by side testing ensued, I listened to literally the same 5s of audio on each, looking for painstaking details consciously.

Absolutely anyone will notice the difference, 100% certain. Its there and obvious. So obvious I switched to an android phone, which I can assure you, I really didn't want to do, but its a serious jump in SQ for the PI7

This is to the Xperia 1 ii btw, so I dont know if that phone has anything unique going for it, I doubt it. Should be obvious on all devices.


----------



## Silentism

Looking for recommendations, hoping this is the right thread to go about?  

I bought the NUARL NT01AX back when it was still around $120-150, and its insane how fast the price dropped and they still sell it! But I'm looking to upgrade now. I'm thinking about buying the N6 Pro, but was wondering how it compares to the Sony XM3 since those dropped in price with the release of XM4. I really like the sound signature of those NT01AX, and I use HD650 at home. I would consider the n10 pro but there aren't enough reviews around it, and it seems kinda hit or miss with what I've seen so far (but still a small sample size of reviews/opinions). So basically,  

How does the Nuarl N6 Pro compare to Sony XM3?  
Does the N6 pro have a better/different fit than NT01AX? (mine slip out when I look down).
Are there any other contenders in the $100-150 price range that have good midrange while also a good bass response that doesn't muddy up the lower midrange?  

Thanks for anyone who can help me out!


----------



## Taz777

I was hoping for some great deals on Amazon Prime day but found no real deals from my shortlist of wireless IEMs further up this thread, with some of them items not even in stock. I was about to give up when I came across the Jabra Elite 85t at a good Prime Day price - £179 (British Pounds Sterling), with next day delivery included. I pulled the trigger as a few of the features stood out for me: vented earpieces and call quality. It's hard to find a TWS that ticks every box so I'm hoping these will be good enough for my long evening walks.


----------



## Firevortex

nekonhime said:


> Yeah, I think I will return the pair to get the nuarl n10 plus or the sony wf1000xm4 ,which have the 5.2 bluetooth because the connectivity issue still there and I give up on this (this even worse than my kz e10).



i think you might have gotten the older N10Pro with connectivity issues. they did a recall on it. luckily mine had no issues with connectivity. i'm gonna pre-order the wf1000xm4 and compare it with the N10 pro. Its still king of sound stage for me.


----------



## Firevortex

Silentism said:


> Looking for recommendations, hoping this is the right thread to go about?
> 
> I bought the NUARL NT01AX back when it was still around $120-150, and its insane how fast the price dropped and they still sell it! But I'm looking to upgrade now. I'm thinking about buying the N6 Pro, but was wondering how it compares to the Sony XM3 since those dropped in price with the release of XM4. I really like the sound signature of those NT01AX, and I use HD650 at home. I would consider the n10 pro but there aren't enough reviews around it, and it seems kinda hit or miss with what I've seen so far (but still a small sample size of reviews/opinions). So basically,
> 
> ...



I bought the sony xm3 when its first released. sounded a lot better than my Jabra 65t at the time and that was 2 yrs ago. I personally didn't like the XM3 sound. Just didn't have the clarity. N6 pro has a intimate sound to them because of the forward warm vocals. n10pro sounds totally different. Its focused on sound stage and neutral clarity.  If you like the HD650 signature you'll prob prefer the N6 pro. they're going for quite cheap atm around $120USD.


----------



## tiagopinto

miserybeforethemusic said:


> What happens when the Chi-Fi market has completely shut out our own domestic one?



Well, as we spoke before, I was going to buy a few cables and accessories from AliExpress but (thankfully before I completed my purchase) just got warned by a friend this weekend that if my stuff arrived after June 30th I’d be subject to the “new customs rules” (effective July 1st) which will tax EVERYTHING coming from China (not sure if it’s only Portugal, almost sure it’s the whole European Union) so my “bargains” would soon become headaches and I would pay VAT and customs costs on ALL my articles. 

Major bummer but I guess the EU is protecting the “inside” market. I’m very curious how the market will change in the next few months for purchases on behemoths like AliExpress, Banggood, Gearbest and others...


----------



## Silentism

Firevortex said:


> I bought the sony xm3 when its first released. sounded a lot better than my Jabra 65t at the time and that was 2 yrs ago. I personally didn't like the XM3 sound. Just didn't have the clarity. N6 pro has a intimate sound to them because of the forward warm vocals. n10pro sounds totally different. Its focused on sound stage and neutral clarity.  If you like the HD650 signature you'll prob prefer the N6 pro. they're going for quite cheap atm around $120USD.


Gonna take your word for it, thanks!  
An earbud with soundstage sounds interesting so maybe I'll check those out next year if nuarl releases another earbud and drops the n10 price


----------



## jant71

For Prime Day the Nuarl N6 is down to $79 plus $20 off when you click the coupon. That is for the US. Maybe most places as I see it is down to 6,900-ish yen with a 1,500 coupon making them about $49 on Amazon Japan. One of the better deals as there isn't much that is really exciting yet.


----------



## nekonhime

In some reviews said that the n10 pro and n10 plus have the same sound but the plus have better connectivity due to the bluetooth 5.2 and it cheaper, so I will try the n10 plus.


Firevortex said:


> i think you might have gotten the older N10Pro with connectivity issues. they did a recall on it. luckily mine had no issues with connectivity. i'm gonna pre-order the wf1000xm4 and compare it with the N10 pro. Its still king of sound stage for me.


----------



## tiagopinto

100Pipers said:


> Managed to drop enough hints for my sons to me the Devialet Gemini for my birthday today, so I am happy



Very nice gift. Happy belated...


----------



## Caipirina (Jun 21, 2021)

Very late to the party, but I finally got my amazon echobuds! Now I have Bezos in my ears!
After playing around bit, first impression is that the active noise REDUCTION is much better than many other buds' noise CANCELLATIONS ... very impressive. Also helps that I am getting a really nice fit.
Sonically I am not blown away, but also not disappointed .. they are 'nice'
What irks me though is that, wanting to try out the smart features and maybe do a firmware update, I tried that Alexa app . first I had to create a dummy amazon account (...reasons...) and when that finally kinda worked it would first detect the buds and then again not ... I have not been able to successfully connect the buds to the alexa app ... might give it another try tomorrow, but I actually deleted the app as for unknown reasons my phone was not able to detect my home wifi networks anymore when that app was active ... bit creepy!
That's really nasty that you need an app that you have to sign into in order to do firmware update (and according to soundguys the FW update fixed an overheating issue)

And if all goes well I am getting the xm4 sometime in August, hopefully before my birthday

In the meantime ... still somewhat tempted to get the MTW2 ...   everytime I see that on someone's shortlist ...


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

Caipirina said:


> Very late to the party, but I finally got my amazon echobuds! Now I have Bezos in my ears!
> After playing around bit, first impression is that the active noise REDUCTION is much better than many other buds' noise CANCELLATIONS ... very impressive. Also helps that I am getting a really nice fit.
> Sonically I am not blown away, but also not disappointed .. they are 'nice'
> What irks me though is that, wanting to try out the smart features and maybe do a firmware update, I tried that Alexa app . first I had to create a dummy amazon account (...reasons...) and when that finally kinda worked it would first detect the buds and then again not ... I have not been able to successfully connect the buds to the alexa app ... might give it another try tomorrow, but I actually deleted the app as for unknown reasons my phone was not able to detect my home wifi networks anymore when that app was active ... bit creepy!
> ...


Tonally, there's probably something besides the MTW2 you could get for the same amount of money, though they have a unique sound signature.

Enjoy those Echo buds!


----------



## assassin10000

I've had the Earin A-3's a couple days now. 


















They sound a bit better than I recall the Sabbat X12 Pro (but maybe not better than the newer X12 Ultra). Unfortunately I cannot directly compare them as I modded both pairs of those.

The main contender for me though is the Samsung Buds Live, as both are an open, non-isolating TWS. I am using a non-Samsung Android source, so Apt-X on the A-3 but AAC on the Buds Live. 









After listening to both (A/B, no EQ) I find the A-3 has a slight veil to the sound or a bit less resolution in comparison. I find bass to reach a little deeper, sound a hair cleaner and have slightly better impact from the Buds Live. The mids and highs similarly are a bit better overall. The slight difference due to the veil/lack of resolution makes the A-3 sound like something is missing or sucked out somewhere in the mids (for me).

That difference in the low end is probably why @erockg thought the Buds Live isolated better than the A-3. Similar to the effect of a properly sealing/fitting ear tip vs a borderline one. Or perhaps that is just due to his ear anatomy. 

For me the A-3 actually covers or blocks more of my ear canal opening but I find the lack of isolation in general similar to the Buds Live. I took measurements of both with a digital caliper (length, height and thickness).

Earin A-3: 20.0mm x 17.1mm x 15.9mm
Buds Live: 27.4mm x 16.5mm x 14.9mm (14.7mm x 10.7mm)

The part of the Buds Live that covers the ear canal opening though is only 14.7mm tall and 10.7mm thick. Which is why they fit much better for me.






All that being said, they are not bad but not good enough for me to keep. Especially as they are not comfortable for me and my smaller ears. 

I tried different positions and even earbud foams, it just doesn't quite work for me. The first way I tried has slightly less bass but is the least uncomfortable, the second is how Earin recommends wearing it but hotspots within 15-20 minutes for me and with the foams it's too large and won't drop into the concha like it should... even though it sounds the best that way. 





The other problem with using foams is adding then removing them every time, as they block the charging contacts.






One other negative (for me) worth a mention is that they will not change to the 'classic' control scheme available in their app. Even after updating the A-3's firmware (and resetting).


----------



## Susiban (Jun 21, 2021)

I think wireless would make Amps and Dacs obsolete in the future.

Also when wireless IEMS get reviewed they will sound more similar compared to wired IEMS, no need to worry about AMP/DAC and IEM synergy etc. So reviews hopefully will be more reliable.

Things to improve on is the sound quality, wireless connection, lag and battery life. Wireless still has ways to go before catching up to wired still. So for now wired IEMS are here to stay.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

assassin10000 said:


> I've had the Earin A-3's a couple days now.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Looks like you gave them a thorough comparison and a fair shake. So your ears prefer the beans? Interesting and pretty cool.

For what it's worth, it looks like the A3 are also developing a hot spot on your ears. The bottom half looks a little more irritated, so chances are that's why they're giving you a little grief.


----------



## C_Lindbergh (Jun 21, 2021)

Wireless will rule eventually, but the question is whenever wireless adapters (like the Fiio UTWS3) can make an impact among the head-fi community, if that's the case then detachable wired IEMS should stay with us for quite some time.  Atm the adapters are way behind TWS imo tho.

The very first major step in years will be the full implemention of BT 5.2/LE Audio, that step will solve a lot of issues currently plauging the True Wireless market.

*Standardised Low latency/low energy codec (LC3/LC3 plus)
*Standardised R/L connection (instead of Master/Slave)
*Standardised multistream/multi audio (multipoint)

etc


----------



## assassin10000

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Looks like you gave them a thorough comparison and a fair shake. So your ears prefer the beans? Interesting and pretty cool.
> 
> For what it's worth, it looks like the A3 are also developing a hot spot on your ears. The bottom half looks a little more irritated, so chances are that's why they're giving you a little grief.


Yep. Way more pressure both at the back and at the front. You can see how they press against the front when you look at the area the Buds Live curve around.


C_Lindbergh said:


> Wireless will rule eventually, but question is if wireless adapters (like the Fiio UTWS3) can make an impact among the head-fi community, if that's the case then detachable wired IEMS should stay with us for quite some time.  Atm the adapters are way behind TWS imo tho.
> 
> The very major step in years will be the full implemetioin of BT 5.2/LE Audio, that step will solve a lot of issues currently plauging the True Wireless market.


I find the adapters a great solution for going cable less with both IEM's and Earbuds. 

But they aren't as technology packed as TWS are. Really good ANC is not really feasible (no internal mic) and hear through/ambient would be a crapshoot given most only have 1 mic per side. They could add a second mic and possibly get ok feed forward ANC and ambient, depending on implementation.


----------



## C_Lindbergh (Jun 21, 2021)

assassin10000 said:


> Yep. Way more pressure both at the back and at the front. You can see how they press against the front when you look at the area the Buds Live curve around.
> 
> I find the adapters a great solution for going cable less with both IEM's and Earbuds.
> 
> But they aren't as technology packed as TWS are. Really good ANC is not really feasible (no internal mic) and hear through/ambient would be a crapshoot given most only have 1 mic per side. They could add a second mic and possibly get ok feed forward ANC and ambient, depending on implementation.



Yea, that's exactly my issues with the currents adapters, there's so much tech missing. Along with the fact that both the case and adpaters are really bulky, I just can't put the case in my pocket like I can with proper tws. I would love to once again buy a pair of proper 300-500$ IEMs if the adapters were up to the task.

But it's great for home use/longer travels, but then you'll also face competition from full-size headphones.


----------



## assassin10000 (Jun 21, 2021)

C_Lindbergh said:


> Yea, that's exactly my issues with the currents adapters, there's so much tech missing. Along with the fact that both the case and adpaters are really bulky, I just can't put the case in my pocket like I can with proper tws. I would love to once again buy a pair of proper 300-500$ IEMs if the adapters were up to the task.
> 
> But it's great for home use/longer travels, but then you'll also face competition from full-size headphones.


Yeah, I completely see where you're coming from.

I consider adapters more like a wireless cable replacement. Instead of looking at having all the convenience factors of recent/higher end TWS. For some of us that's enough.

I agree though, bringing those to TWS adapters could possibly help the IEM market in the long run.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

C_Lindbergh said:


> Yea, that's exactly my issues with the currents adapters, there's so much tech missing. Along with the fact that both the case and adpaters are really bulky, I just can't put the case in my pocket like I can with proper tws. I would love to once again buy a pair of proper 300-500$ IEMs if the adapters were up to the task.
> 
> But it's great for home use/longer travels, but then you'll also face competition from full-size headphones.





assassin10000 said:


> Yeah, I completely see where you're coming from.
> 
> I consider adapters more like a wireless cable replacement. Instead of looking at having all the convenience factors of recent/higher end TWS.


Because they more or less are. Even I agree with that assessment. They're still too niche a product, in my opinion. The CF01 are fantastic, but look at how few people are willing to pay the asking price and I imagine the lack of TWS features is a huge part of that. My guess is the amplification they use is where all that cost goes.

But I also think they'll continue to coexist; for every person wanting a do-it-all device, there's another who just wants to cut the cable and doesn't want all the extra stuff. I'm both, depending on the day


----------



## C_Lindbergh (Jun 21, 2021)

Speaking of cases, even tho it looks like I will return the Sony XM4, I really think they nailed the case. It's a perfect size/shape, strong magnets, sturdy hinge and there's wireless charging.

The Airpods pro case is a bit too small for my taste, whilst Sony hit my personal sweet spot in terms of size/shape.

I also like what Sony did with the LED, it's big and you can see it both when the case is closed and opened.

If only there was a TWS with the case/features/build of the Sony and the fit/sound of the CA MT!


----------



## assassin10000

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Because they more or less are. Even I agree with that assessment. They're still too niche a product, in my opinion. The CF01 are fantastic, but look at how few people are willing to pay the asking price and I imagine the lack of TWS features is a huge part of that. My guess is the amplification they use is where all that cost goes.
> 
> But I also think they'll continue to coexist; for every person wanting a do-it-all device, there's another who just wants to cut the cable and doesn't want all the extra stuff. I'm both, depending on the day


Me too.

Actually case size was also a consideration for me. I haven't stepped up to the CF01, UTWS3 or BT20S Pro. I find being able to fit both my older BT20S and MMCX earbuds or small IEMs into a zippered case way more convenient to carry. 

If the UTWS3 had wireless charging I probably would have bit though.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

C_Lindbergh said:


> Speaking of cases, even tho it looks like I will return the Sony XM4, I really think they nailed the case. It's a perfect size/shape, strong magnets, sturdy hinge and there's wireless charging.
> 
> The Airpods pro case is a bit too small for my taste, whilst Sony hit my personal sweet spot in terms of size/shape.
> 
> ...


You're right; that Sony case looks great and it's a huge upgrade from what they had before. I find the following cases to be fantastically pocketable:

JBL Club Pro+
Jabra Elite Active 75t
UE FITS
Everything else (with the exception of the CF01 and potentially the Between Pro) are well within the same threshold, but don't quite disappear in your pocket like the other ones. Even the 85t is just a hair larger and it's perceptible. Most people probably won't care, but it's something worth mentioning.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

assassin10000 said:


> Me too.
> 
> Actually case size was also a consideration for me. I haven't stepped up to the CF01, UTWS3 or BT20S Pro. I find being able to fit both my older BT20S and MMCX earbuds or small IEMs into a zippered case way more convenient to carry.
> 
> If the UTWS3 had wireless charging I probably would have bit though.


I remember considering a bunch of those cases for the Chi-Fi stuff. Ended up going with the dollar Pelican knock-offs instead. I have regrets.

That larger case for the CF01 is a godsend, though. So nice to just take one thing and go. And that one thing doesn't even need an additional charging cable to last the better part of a week. It's awesome. Shame I don't have T2 adapters; have a feeling the Ety Evo that's supposed to show up today would make an awesome pairing.


----------



## assassin10000

miserybeforethemusic said:


> I remember considering a bunch of those cases for the Chi-Fi stuff. Ended up going with the dollar Pelican knock-offs instead. I have regrets.



Yeah, I had two of those. One I gave away with a ZSN and the other has become storage for silica packs lol.


----------



## Caipirina

assassin10000 said:


> I've had the Earin A-3's a couple days now.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Interesting how the ‘handle’ looks so similar compared to the new beats.


----------



## erockg

assassin10000 said:


> I've had the Earin A-3's a couple days now.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Wow, I must be a freak of nature.  Those Earin A-3 swim in my ears.  I tried everything to get them to feel snug but resorted to just letting them sit in my ear.  Works better for me.  Sadly, I haven't been a fan of any Samsung bud except the AKG N400s for sound.  Sorry the Earin's didn't work out.  Such a great price...


----------



## RainyDog

Has anyone got/tried both the Samsung Buds Live and Sabbat Vooplay by any chance?

I've got the Buds Live but they don't really fit me unfortunately. My concha's and ear canal openings are huge so I can't really wear them like they're supposed to be worn.

They slide pretty far into my ear canals and actually form a decent seal to the point where it's almost like a shallow insertion IEM. But they sound boomy and congested and are just not comfortable like that.

So I've been looking at the Vooplay as an alternative which look to have somewhat larger diameter and more circular bud part that might even accommodate a sponge cover or two if needs.

Can anyone advise whether they definitely fit differently from the Buds Live and whether they might work better for my large flappers? Thanks.


----------



## assassin10000

RainyDog said:


> Has anyone got/tried both the Samsung Buds Live and Sabbat Vooplay by any chance?
> 
> I've got the Buds Live but they don't really fit me unfortunately. My concha's and ear canal openings are huge so I can't really wear them like they're supposed to be worn.
> 
> ...



Did you contact Samsung for their free sleeves? Might be a US only thing.

https://www.samsung.com/us/support/answer/ANS00087422/


I have/had both predecessors of the Vooplay, the X12 Pro and X12 Ultra. The Ultra may work as well.


----------



## erockg

Picked up these during the Prime sale https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B08881P7NW/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o06_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1  Very good for the price now.  After I purchased them, saw that Nura filed the FCC for their own TWS.  This should be interesting.

https://fcc.report/FCC-ID/2ANIN-T0BBR/5262638


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

erockg said:


> Picked up these during the Prime sale https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B08881P7NW/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o06_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1  Very good for the price now.  After I purchased them, saw that Nura filed the FCC for their own TWS.  This should be interesting.
> 
> https://fcc.report/FCC-ID/2ANIN-T0BBR/5262638


The TWS look really interesting. I like Nura's approach to tuning, so curious to see if you think the NuraLoop comes close to simulating the same thing. I have a feeling the over-ear portion of the Nuraphones is a big part of what makes it sound the way it does.


----------



## samandhi (Jun 21, 2021)

mainguy said:


> This might be true in theory, but it isnt in pratice. A/B test it, I implore you!
> 
> I had my PI7 with my XS Max happily. Then by chance I tried them with an Aptx HD device, and immediately noticed something. Then some serious side by side testing ensued, I listened to literally the same 5s of audio on each, looking for painstaking details consciously.
> 
> ...


No, you are right, but that is because the iPhone is limited to either SBC or AAC (250 kbs), where AptX HD has a higher bitrate of 576 kbs. This is the point I was making on number 1 (except I was using LDAC as an example instead of AptX HD).

If it sounds good, stick with it!


----------



## EMINENT

erockg said:


> Picked up these during the Prime sale https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B08881P7NW/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o06_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1  Very good for the price now.  After I purchased them, saw that Nura filed the FCC for their own TWS.  This should be interesting.
> 
> https://fcc.report/FCC-ID/2ANIN-T0BBR/5262638


Nice find! I am definitely trying these as I enjoyed the Nuraphone when I had it. If they can make a good sound with AptX HD or LDAC and Bluetooth 5.2 with a small case, they very well may have a solid contender. Battery is lacking though with 4 hours, but I am curious how they sound.


----------



## Firevortex

nekonhime said:


> In some reviews said that the n10 pro and n10 plus have the same sound but the plus have better connectivity due to the bluetooth 5.2 and it cheaper, so I will try the n10 plus.


Haven't heard the N10 Plus so didn't comment on it. The price difference is a no brainer if they sound the same. They are using the same drivers.


----------



## nekonhime

Firevortex said:


> Haven't heard the N10 Plus so didn't comment on it. The price difference is a no brainer if they sound the same. They are using the same drivers.


I think they gonna sale on Amazon for 164 while the n10 pro is 156


----------



## rhsauer

erockg said:


> Picked up these during the Prime sale https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B08881P7NW/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o06_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1  Very good for the price now.  After I purchased them, saw that Nura filed the FCC for their own TWS.  This should be interesting.
> 
> https://fcc.report/FCC-ID/2ANIN-T0BBR/5262638


I also bought these this morning.  The price was just too good.  I'm intrigued by the form factor -- It's a different than anything else I've had.  I'm not sure if I would have bought them if they were just another pair of TWS.


----------



## chinmie

RainyDog said:


> Has anyone got/tried both the Samsung Buds Live and Sabbat Vooplay by any chance?
> 
> I've got the Buds Live but they don't really fit me unfortunately. My concha's and ear canal openings are huge so I can't really wear them like they're supposed to be worn.
> 
> ...



i have both, and i happen to use donut foams on them to beefy-up the sound a bit. it also add grip, but in term of fitting i think even without foam it still sit snug on my ears. here's a couple of picture comparison to help a bit



Spoiler: photos


----------



## erockg

rhsauer said:


> I also bought these this morning.  The price was just too good.  I'm intrigued by the form factor -- It's a different than anything else I've had.  I'm not sure if I would have bought them if they were just another pair of TWS.


I’ve been using them all day. They really  have a great battery life. Above average ANC.  They sound amazing in my opinion for what they are. The only negative so far for me is that when I took them out of my ears while going for a walk and stored them in the case in my back pocket. They reconnected while walking because of the sensor.  I’ll probably have to put them in manual mode to turn them off.  Other than that, well worth the $89.  Let me know what you think when you get them.


----------



## FYLegend

Here's my EQ settings so far for TaoTronics SoundLiberty 94 (with ANC on) with the AirReps156X Android App. Really have to bring the mid-bass and lower mids way down to get rid of all that bleed. I would like to have brought up the upper treble a bit more, but there seems to be some hard limiter which prevents clipping but leaves a "huffing" artifact (same thing happens with Wavelet's preset),  so your best bet is to turn the volume down rather than up.



TaoTronics 94: EQ works and can be saved, ANC settings not saved (default ON, transparency mode on when using single ear), Low Latency setting is remembered, find my earbuds works. Changing ANC mode from hybrid to feed forward changes the bass tuning considerably (thicker and more punchy but some of the mid-bleed returns)
SoundPeats T2: EQ function disabled, ANC and Low Latency settings not remembered, no Find My Earbuds option. I'm not noticing any change in sound quality when changing ANC mode (though the highs do sound less congested with ANC off).

Has anyone tried if this works on Earfun Free Pro or other Airoha earbuds?


----------



## VICosPhi

Sennheiser MTW2 for only $199 on Sennheiser US!
*https://en-us.sennheiser.com/momentumtruewireless-2?*


----------



## dj24

*EBAY has theJabra Elite Active 75t True Wireless Earbuds w/ Wireless Charging* (Certified Refurbished, Grey) for $79.99 - $12 w/ coupon code *JULY4SAVINGS* = *$67.99*. *Shipping is free*.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/164708827879


----------



## Juturna (Jun 22, 2021)

I'm actually so confused trying to find my next true wireless earbud, i've been going back and forth in my mind trying to decide.
I live in a country with extremely limited return policies when it comes to earphones so if I buy something I don't like... i'm either keeping it or selling it at a loss.

So do y'all have any recommendations? I like versatile sound with a decently slamming mid-bass with good timing, and some sub-bass that can be felt when the music warrants it, but I don't like boomy bloated bass that bleeds into the mids and just takes away from the overall experience. What is important to me though is a good/wide soundstage (I mean, as wide as the soundstage can get on an earbud) and decent mids and highs with clarity on top of that bass.  I'm pretty sensitive towards sibilance and harsh treble but I like a little sparkle up there too, so i'm not sure where I exactly land on the "bright vs dark" when it comes to the highs.
I also value decent to good call quality, since my old WF-1000XM3's had TERRIBLE call quality and nobody could basically hear me at all if I wasn't sitting at home in an extremely quiet environment.
ANC is a plus, transparency mode is a plus too, a case with wireless charging would be great too but once again not a necessity. I'm using an iPhone currently so it doesn't matter much if it doesn't have AptX or LDAC. 

I did not enjoy the sound of the WF-1000XM3's in hindsight, the poor fit made me feel like the sound was congested, lacking in bass in the right places with an excess in the wrong places, lack of detail and a very narrow soundstage, but in the end it wasn't the sound that was the deal breaker, it was the rest: Poor fit, poor call quality, huge case, etc.
I've had plenty of different TWS's and there are plenty that I haven't enjoyed, like the Master & Dynamic MW07's, the Galaxy Buds (first gen), and most of them were just OK and not much else.

I've looked at the Sennheiser Momentum TW2's, Sony WF-1000XM4, Devialet Gemini and I do think the PI7's are the best sounding TWS I've heard, but it's too expensive. My budget is around $300 and I could extend that to pay $320 for the Devialets if they're worth it, but the PI7's are $430 where i'm at (or actually, directly converted from the local currency to USD it's $514) and that's just too goddamn expensive.


----------



## Taz777

Juturna said:


> *I'm actually so confused trying to find my next true wireless earbud, i've been going back and forth in my mind trying to decide.*
> I live in a country with extremely limited return policies when it comes to earphones so if I buy something I don't like... i'm either keeping it or selling it at a loss.
> 
> So do y'all have any recommendations? I like versatile sound with a decently slamming mid-bass with good timing, and some sub-bass that can be felt when the music warrants it, but I don't like boomy bloated bass that bleeds into the mids and just takes away from the overall experience. What is important to me though is a good/wide soundstage (I mean, as wide as the soundstage can get on an earbud) and decent mids and highs with clarity on top of that bass.  I'm pretty sensitive towards sibilance and harsh treble but I like a little sparkle up there too, so i'm not sure where I exactly land on the "bright vs dark" when it comes to the highs.
> ...



I've been in the same situation as you. However, I've never had a TWS earbud before, apart from a few days with Apple Airpods Pro, which I returned due to poor call quality with my XS Max phone. I've now changed phones and have spent around a week reading countless online reviews and watching YouTube videos of various TWS earbuds.

It seems like every TWS earbud is the best and the worst depending on which review you read!

After an aborted attempt at buying Sennheiser MTW2 (seller sent used rather than new), I've settled upon Jabra Elite 85t, which I've just received through an excellent Amazon Prime Day deal. Given my use cases (call quality and good for listening to music on my long evening walks) I thought the 85t earbuds ticked the most boxes whilst not being being outstanding in any one category. It was a bit of a left-field choice as the 85t didn't even make my original shortlist!

I'll know in a few days if I've made the right decision.


----------



## gwompki

Juturna said:


> I'm actually so confused trying to find my next true wireless earbud, i've been going back and forth in my mind trying to decide.
> I live in a country with extremely limited return policies when it comes to earphones so if I buy something I don't like... i'm either keeping it or selling it at a loss.
> 
> So do y'all have any recommendations? I like versatile sound with a decently slamming mid-bass with good timing, and some sub-bass that can be felt when the music warrants it, but I don't like boomy bloated bass that bleeds into the mids and just takes away from the overall experience. What is important to me though is a good/wide soundstage (I mean, as wide as the soundstage can get on an earbud) and decent mids and highs with clarity on top of that bass.  I'm pretty sensitive towards sibilance and harsh treble but I like a little sparkle up there too, so i'm not sure where I exactly land on the "bright vs dark" when it comes to the highs.
> ...


If you didn't care for the sound of the XM3, I would stay away from the XM4.  VERY similar sound signature to my ears.  I never tested the call quality because I could never get past the sound.  I currently am testing the Bose QC buds which have a very pleasing sound, but the form factor and other features are not nearly as nice as the Sonys.  I have a set of Devialet Geminis scheduled to arrive tomorrow that I'm hoping will be the last stop on this journey.  I can let you know my impressions of those once I receive them.  Fingers crossed they will be the last stop on this journey.


----------



## tiagopinto (Jun 22, 2021)

Juturna said:


> I'm actually so confused trying to find my next true wireless earbud, i've been going back and forth in my mind trying to decide.
> I live in a country with extremely limited return policies when it comes to earphones so if I buy something I don't like... i'm either keeping it or selling it at a loss.
> 
> So do y'all have any recommendations? I like versatile sound with a decently slamming mid-bass with good timing, and some sub-bass that can be felt when the music warrants it, but I don't like boomy bloated bass that bleeds into the mids and just takes away from the overall experience. What is important to me though is a good/wide soundstage (I mean, as wide as the soundstage can get on an earbud) and decent mids and highs with clarity on top of that bass.  I'm pretty sensitive towards sibilance and harsh treble but I like a little sparkle up there too, so i'm not sure where I exactly land on the "bright vs dark" when it comes to the highs.
> ...



Aren’t we all on the same boat...

The wanted specs you describe are on my list as well. My first priority is sound quality, the rest are bonuses. For my budget, I went for the CA MT. At 130€ they’re absolutely unbeatable. Great sound (for bluetooth earbuds at this price and well above), great comfort, very good battery, very good app, nice but sensitive controls, scaled transparency mode, no ANC, no Qi.

@miserybeforethemusic will probably recommend the ADV M5, in this category. I trust his judgment. Like you, I’m not able to try out many options but I’d risk these.

I wouldn’t go for the Sony or Bose, because I don’t like their “house sound” (more so on the Sony), although their ANC is top notch and Sony have some other interesting specs. I wouldn’t go for the B&W because of price and horrid battery life.
For a mid-priced one, I’d jump at the KEF MU3 or the NFP, mainly for their sound characteristics. Or even the MTW2, although they have some battery issues.
For a higher priced option, probably the Gemini.

But, as I have stated, this is a fast paced slice of the market, soon to change a lot (BTLEAudio/LC3). So, being on a tight budget, I’m not keen on spending too much here. Very happy with the MT, for now.



Taz777 said:


> I've been in the same situation as you. However, I've never had a TWS earbud before, apart from a few days with Apple Airpods Pro, which I returned due to poor call quality with my XS Max phone. I've now changed phones and have spent around a week reading countless online reviews and watching YouTube videos of various TWS earbuds.
> 
> It seems like every TWS earbud is the best and the worst depending on which review you read!
> 
> ...



This is also an option I considered. The 85t have most of the specs I want but they slightly fall short on the most important one for me, so I couldn’t go there. But a great all-rounder for sure.


----------



## Taz777 (Jun 23, 2021)

*Jabra Elite 85t - First Impressions!  - UPDATED*

I've had several hours of use with my new Jabra Elite 85t wireless IEMs and and here are some first impressions in case these are on anyone else's TWS shortlist.

*Packaging*
Very good, fuss-free packaging. Mostly recyclable cardboard too, if you're a 'greenie' (which I am). It's typical IEM packaging and just contains the minimum that you need.

*Initial Setup*
Charged the case using a USB-C cable (which is also included). I could have used wireless charging too as the case supports Qi charging. The charge status LED on the front of the case is simple to understand. They were supplied almost fully charged so charging to full charge for both the case and the earbuds took just a few minutes. Whilst I was charging them I installed the Jabra Sound+ iOS app on my iPhone 12 Mini. Once charged, I took out the earbuds and put them into my ears using the stock Medium tips which were preinstalled - you get one pair of Small and one pair of Large eartips in the box. Initial feel was they weren't quite pushed into my ear properly, but actually were!

As this was a first-time use, the voice prompts from the earbuds guided me to run the app and begin the setup. The Jabra Sound+ app is pretty decent. It's been designed quite well and is fairly intuitive to use. It takes you through the steps you need to get up and running quickly. The app updated the firmware in the 85t earbuds as part of the initial setup process. Updating the firmware did take quite a while: something like 13 minutes. You have to put the earbuds back into the case to get the firmware updated and the case LED flashes purple during the update process.

One of the tasks included in the app is the MyFit test - this tests if your earbuds are fitted properly in your ears. My right one wasn't so I adjusted it and re-ran the test. The advice the test provides is to adjust the earbud or use another sized eartip. I changed the tip to the Large size and re-ran the test and this worked. So I have Medium in the left ear and Large in the right ear - this does freak my OCD out where everything must be perfectly symmetrical!

There's also a MySound test in the app. This generates different frequencies at different volumes and you tap an area on the app if you can hear the sound. It does this both for the left and right earbuds and then analyses the results to create a profile for your ears. You can then apply this profile to music if you want to. I will do an A/B test for MySound on/off to see if it makes a difference another time.

There's a lot more in the app which I'll go through in the coming days. But, overall, getting the 85t earbuds personalised for my ears didn't take too long and the process was fairly straightforward thanks to a good app and the ergonomics of the 85t earbuds.

*The Fit and Comfort*
With the different sized eartips, the fit is very good. I generally don't like wearing IEMs, yet here I am a few hours into wearing them at home and enjoying them. The tips are quite shallow. This is mostly good as it doesn't feel like I'm wearing earbuds. On the downside, the centre of gravity is further out from your ears so it sometimes feels like they aren't inserted properly so you may end up trying to twist and push them further in until you get used to the sensation.

As the earbuds are vented, there's far less of the feeling of ears being plugged. It's still there, just to a lesser extent. Shaking my head with some vigour doesn't dislodge the 85t earbuds, which is a positive.

Each earbud has a single push button for call and music functions, and is programmable via the Jabra Sound+ app.

*[Edit]* Very acceptable fit and comfort during a 1.5 hour evening walk. The 85t earbuds were not fatiguing to listen to or wear during the walk. They were very comfortable and I didn't feel the need to adjust them in any way. I only noticed the right earpiece every now and then which, I think, is due to a less than perfect fit due to the shape of my right ear canal. For the most part, the 85t earbuds just provided the music and didn't get in the way of listening to the music. The ergonomics worked reasonably well.

*Call Quality*
This was an important requirement for me. I called my home phone's answering machine and made a 30-second voice test. When I listened to it on my home phone's answering machine I was a little disappointed. The call quality wasn't as good as I had hoped for. It was very 'fuzzy' and loaded with noise. Given it's the Jabra brand, this made it even more disappointing. I'll try some WhatsApp calls to test this out more.

*[Edit] *Just had my first long phone call using the 85t earbuds via Facetime Audio, and the incoming audio was crystal clear and when I asked the caller how my audio was he said it was very clear. That's a big relief to me! I've reduced the Sidetone to around 25% - this is the feature that let's you hear your own voice during a call.

*Music Sound Quality*
My music source is the Neutron Music App and the TIDAL app, all playing music in lossless CD-quality or better. I have not made any EQ adjustments in my music source app or the Jabra Sound+ app, so these impressions are for a 'flat' sound EQ.

First impressions are of a lovely, mellow sound signature. There's certainly no harshness to it, which means it's very listenable for extended listening sessions. It's a great sound signature for bedtime listening, which is a positive for me.

There is a good amount of airiness and detail in the sound. The mid-bass is slightly pronounced. It doesn't feel like I'm listening to heavily processed music through AAC. The Jabra Elite 85t manage to do a good of keeping my music sounding musical, which is extremely important to me, The is plenty of volume available - I'm listening at 50% and it's just at the point of being a little too loud in my current quiet environment. I'll need to bump up the volume when walking outdoors but there's plenty available.

My reference for music sound quality is my Beyerdynamic Xelento IEMs and those are clearly superior for music quality in terms of clarity and depth. However, for casual listening, the 85t earbuds are 'good' - if I was marking them out of 10 where the Xelentos were a 10, I'd give the 85t a 7 out of 10. When I'm walking outside there's a ton of noise around me so that equalises things a bit more, with the added convenience of not having a wire in the way.

*[Edit]* I went for a long evening walk of around 1.5 hours. The weather was sunny but quite breezy so an ideal opportunity to test out the 'Advanced ANC' features of the 85t. Firstly, music quality was good. I was enjoying my music during the walk. I also didn't experience the 'sounds of my own body' - like foot fall - during my walk. Those are sounds I hear with my other IEMs which plug the ear fully. This is a big positive for me as I could focus on the music a lot more. The wind was picking up quite a bit so I tried out ANC (pressing the left earpiece button, which cycles through HearThrough, ANC and Off - more on HearThrough shortly). The ANC was very acceptable. The wind noise was dramatically reduced. During my walk I stopped to talk with my local barber who was closing his shop for the day - an ideal opportunity to try out HearThrough which lets you listen to external sounds. This worked pretty well. Not perfect at all, but it worked well enough. There is a HearThrough adjustment level in the Sound+ app to see if I can improve this feature. I've found no reason to use any EQ at the moment. I probably will make slight adjustments in the future. The sound is perfectly acceptable for listening to my genre of music (Smooth Jazz and Soul) without applying any EQ. What I have done is configure Neutron Music Player to deliver the best sound quality that it can to iOS before it all gets sent via AAC to the 85t earbuds (e.g. 64-bit processing, dither, etc, etc).

*Keep or Return?*
I haven't bothered with the EQ, ANC or any of the other fancy features of the Jabra 85t earbuds yet, those are still on my To-Do list. For the price I paid, the ease of use, ergonomics and 'good enough' music sound quality, these do tick a sufficient number of boxes for me, although I don't have any other TWS earbuds to compare them directly to. The phone call quality, or lack of it, is something I need to explore over time as there may be options to improve it. Soooooooooo...

*[Edit]* I'm sure other TWS earbuds excel in some areas but, as a package, the 85t earbuds provide acceptable or good standards in the areas that are important to me. Now that I've tried more of the features out and they've all worked well enough...

Answer: *Keep!*

All of the above are my personal opinions. YMMV.


----------



## revand

miserybeforethemusic said:


> They're going to wind up in hot water for that "first LDAC" claim, then, as the XM4 are already on the market.
> 
> For some reason, I can't just impulse-buy these. $125ish for the 2-BA model is more than fair, but I'm not excited about these. Must be because I already have the WH3, so please don't let me sway your decisions.


I backed the single dynamic version of WH2 on Kickstarter. Anyone was able to compare (I mean among the reviewers) the new SONY WF-1000XM4 and the Hiby WH2? It would be interesting to hear about this....


----------



## Luchyres

I'm enjoying the Devialet Gemini sound - but an annoying issue has cropped up. It seems that every few seconds to minutes the touch-panel on one of the buds is being triggered pausing or unpausing music at random intervals. At first I thought it was my hair or something affecting source app but after removing those variables it seems the TWS itself may be somehow triggering the touch zone internally (perhaps moisture, it is humid here right now). It seems to be the right bud which also is 20% lower battery than the L....

I've tried an initial go at re-setting, but thus far no success - the issue is still happening. If anyone else has experienced this or has a good tip please let me know!

I did turn off the "auto-pause when an earbud is removed" option just in case. 

Thanks!


----------



## Juturna

gwompki said:


> If you didn't care for the sound of the XM3, I would stay away from the XM4.  VERY similar sound signature to my ears.  I never tested the call quality because I could never get past the sound.  I currently am testing the Bose QC buds which have a very pleasing sound, but the form factor and other features are not nearly as nice as the Sonys.  I have a set of Devialet Geminis scheduled to arrive tomorrow that I'm hoping will be the last stop on this journey.  I can let you know my impressions of those once I receive them.  Fingers crossed they will be the last stop on this journey.


Ah, it's so annoying! The XM4's are pretty much, in my opinion at least, the perfect set of true wireless earbuds if you don't count the actual sound. Which is obviously the single most important aspect of a set of earbuds, at least to us music enthusiasts. I thought the XM3's were the definition of "good enough" when it came to the sound. I was never impressed, I was never amazed at how good something sounded, but I rarely thought anything sounded like junk. But as they died I realized that I just didn't like the sound signature. So not what I would call BAD sound, just mediocre. 

But yes, let me know what you think about them! I discounted them right away when I saw Flossy Carters video on them, but it seems like they've done a proper overhaul of them so I'm kinda starting to take them a bit more seriously right now!


----------



## Juturna

tiagopinto said:


> Aren’t we all on the same boat...
> 
> The wanted specs you describe are on my list as well. My first priority is sound quality, the rest are bonuses. For my budget, I went for the CA MT. At 130€ they’re absolutely unbeatable. Great sound (for bluetooth earbuds at this price and well above), great comfort, very good battery, very good app, nice but sensitive controls, scaled transparency mode, no ANC, no Qi.
> 
> ...


Ah, thanks for the detailed response! I was originally gonna order the CA MT's too, but I feel like they lack a few of the features that I want right now, because I'm trying to just get myself a pair of earbuds that will be my go-to earbuds for at least a year or so. So I really do want the ANC, Qi, comfortable fit, reasonably sized charging case and all that jazz. I could see myself ordering the CA MT's more like a complement if anything because of that price, but yeah. 


I've heard some really bad things about the sound on the KEF MU3 and the NFP's are way too expensive for me to order them overseas as well not being able to demo them. I live in Europe and I definitely prefer ordering at least from within the EU if possible, to avoid unnecessary import taxes and stuff, I think the NFP's would end up costing me as much as the PI7's if I ordered them honestly. I can find the KEF MU3 but from what i've heard they're not worth the money. 

I'm thinking the MTW2's or the Gemini's right now, but i'm worried about the Gemini still after all the issues people seem to be having with them. The MTW2's sound pretty good and where i'm at they cost like... $70 less than the Gemini's, it's not enough to warrant going for the MTW2 if they sound worse than the Gemini's in my opinion.


----------



## Luchyres

Juturna said:


> Ah, thanks for the detailed response! I was originally gonna order the CA MT's too, but I feel like they lack a few of the features that I want right now, because I'm trying to just get myself a pair of earbuds that will be my go-to earbuds for at least a year or so. So I really do want the ANC, Qi, comfortable fit, reasonably sized charging case and all that jazz. I could see myself ordering the CA MT's more like a complement if anything because of that price, but yeah.
> 
> 
> I've heard some really bad things about the sound on the KEF MU3 and the NFP's are way too expensive for me to order them overseas as well not being able to demo them. I live in Europe and I definitely prefer ordering at least from within the EU if possible, to avoid unnecessary import taxes and stuff, I think the NFP's would end up costing me as much as the PI7's if I ordered them honestly. I can find the KEF MU3 but from what i've heard they're not worth the money.
> ...



I'm pretty excited to check out the JBL Tour Pro+ - they don't have stellar ANC, but they should be EQ able to your liking and have other stuff like wireless charging. 

They may be what I keep and send the Devialet back if this pausing issue doesn't stop. (See a few posts back)


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

revand said:


> I backed the single dynamic version of WH2 on Kickstarter. Anyone was able to compare (I mean among the reviewers) the new SONY WF-1000XM4 and the Hiby WH2? It would be interesting to hear about this....


I'd ask @twister6 or some of the folks who got review samples. Going off the WH3, thought, they're totally different tonalities. Don't think I'd consider the WH2 and XM4 to be a very apples-to-apples comparison outside of their support for LDAC.


----------



## Juturna

Luchyres said:


> I'm pretty excited to check out the JBL Tour Pro+ - they don't have stellar ANC, but they should be EQ able to your liking and have other stuff like wireless charging.
> 
> They may be what I keep and send the Devialet back if this pausing issue doesn't stop. (See a few posts back)


Oh, okay! I haven't really had a firm grip on what JBL has been doing in the earbud department at all, I feel like they did some decent stuff back in the mid 00's but then I feel like they just started to do even more super consumer-oriented stuff with boomy bass and cheap feeling to it. I don't know if this has changed but i'm curious to hear your take on them. 

Yeah I saw that post, sounds really annoying! Also feels bad that they still have issues even after stopping the sales and everything for awhile. 
Would love to hear a detailed comparison on the Devialet vs the PI7's because the PI7's are honestly the gold standard for me when it comes to sound in true wireless earbuds, detailed, decent soundstage, not afraid to push some extra bass in tracks where it's warranted, they fit me better than any other earbud has... but then we have everything else: No EQ in app (which for $400 ain't okay in my book), only being able to trigger transparency mode THROUGH the app, poor battery life (acceptable battery life to me at the start, but when the battery has degraded a bit... wowee that will be a mess), ANC that's only okay, etc. 

Like, i'm fine with not having the best ANC, but if i'm paying that much I am expecting quite a bit. 

I saw someone selling basically unused Bose QC Earbuds for $100, I almost wanted to go for it, but I think i'm going to hate the sound quality and that case is a freaking monstrous thing.


----------



## Juturna

Taz777 said:


> I've been in the same situation as you. However, I've never had a TWS earbud before, apart from a few days with Apple Airpods Pro, which I returned due to poor call quality with my XS Max phone. I've now changed phones and have spent around a week reading countless online reviews and watching YouTube videos of various TWS earbuds.
> 
> It seems like every TWS earbud is the best and the worst depending on which review you read!
> 
> ...


I've actually tried the Jabra 85T at the local hifi store, and I don't know what it is, but I absolutely hate the sound from them. But I think it has to with the shape of my ear canals, I had some 65T's back in the day that was also pretty damn bad and the sound is just super weird and unnatural to me. But like I said, I don't feel like i'm getting a good fit, at all. So i've always been so confused because i've read reviews that state how good they are and i'm like "what earbuds are they listening to???" I enjoy earbuds that actually fit a bit deeper into the ear canals even if others can be more comfortable.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

Juturna said:


> I've actually tried the Jabra 85T at the local hifi store, and I don't know what it is, but I absolutely hate the sound from them. But I think it has to with the shape of my ear canals, I had some 65T's back in the day that was also pretty damn bad and the sound is just super weird and unnatural to me. But like I said, I don't feel like i'm getting a good fit, at all. So i've always been so confused because i've read reviews that state how good they are and i'm like "what earbuds are they listening to???" I enjoy earbuds that actually fit a bit deeper into the ear canals even if others can be more comfortable.


It's not your ears; it's the 85t's default tuning. Very boring. I gave it a little bit of a facelift with EQ, but they'll never be on the same SQ level as some of the other stuff out there.

Fit-wise, they're a bit bizarre since you don't have that feedback of pressure building up in your ear to tell you that it's been done right. They're nowhere near as deep as a set of IEMs, either, which is probably also throwing you off. Definitely not a pair for everybody (much like the Earin A-3, it seems), but they do the job well enough.


----------



## cresny

Luchyres said:


> I'm enjoying the Devialet Gemini sound - but an annoying issue has cropped up. It seems that every few seconds to minutes the touch-panel on one of the buds is being triggered pausing or unpausing music at random intervals. At first I thought it was my hair or something affecting source app but after removing those variables it seems the TWS itself may be somehow triggering the touch zone internally (perhaps moisture, it is humid here right now). It seems to be the right bud which also is 20% lower battery than the L....
> 
> I've tried an initial go at re-setting, but thus far no success - the issue is still happening. If anyone else has experienced this or has a good tip please let me know!
> 
> ...


I've experienced this too, but very seldomly. I think all I did was put them back in the case for a moment and they were fixed but I can't remember, but it could have been humidity for me, too. All I can suggest is to see if it continues to happen in an air conditioned environment, but it does seem like there is a defect. Have you contacted support? They are pretty responsive.


----------



## stormwrx (Jun 22, 2021)

Luchyres said:


> I'm enjoying the Devialet Gemini sound - but an annoying issue has cropped up. It seems that every few seconds to minutes the touch-panel on one of the buds is being triggered pausing or unpausing music at random intervals. At first I thought it was my hair or something affecting source app but after removing those variables it seems the TWS itself may be somehow triggering the touch zone internally (perhaps moisture, it is humid here right now). It seems to be the right bud which also is 20% lower battery than the L.... I've tried an initial go at re-setting, but thus far no success - the issue is still happening. If anyone else has experienced this or has a good tip please let me know! I did turn off the "auto-pause when an earbud is removed" option just in case. Thanks!


Sounds like a hardware glitch. I received the Geminis over the weekend and they have been flawless so far (full review forthcoming).


----------



## miserybeforethemusic (Jun 22, 2021)

EQ-wise, here's where I am with the 85t. It's subtle, but brings a little more life back into the mix while staying compatible with most genres.


----------



## TK33

miserybeforethemusic said:


> It's not your ears; it's the 85t's default tuning. Very boring. I gave it a little bit of a facelift with EQ, but they'll never be on the same SQ level as some of the other stuff out there.
> 
> Fit-wise, they're a bit bizarre since you don't have that feedback of pressure building up in your ear to tell you that it's been done right. They're nowhere near as deep as a set of IEMs, either, which is probably also throwing you off. Definitely not a pair for everybody (much like the Earin A-3, it seems), but they do the job well enough.


I was actually tempted to pick one up while walking past a Best Buy last weekend as the bizarre fit you describe seemed perfect for calls.  My Galaxy Buds Live (currently back at Samsung for warranty  repair) have not been working with Windows 10 the last week (they used to be perfect but now only get 2-3% volume on Windows so no one can hear me, although they are still fantastic when using the phone).  The seal on the PI7, which is what I am using while I wait for my Galaxy Buds Live to come back, is a bit too good and makes long calls where I have to talk a lot uncomfortable for me.  

The only reason I didnt get the 85t was because the left bud cannot be used independently of the right side.  With the Galaxy Buds Live, I could switch seamlessly between ears during calls when I wanted to give one side a break. Since the pandemic/working from home started, I started developing pain in my right ear from having earbuds in my ear for 4-5 hours / day for just calls (add another few hours for music). Never would have thought call quality and independent earbud usage would have become top features for me.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

TK33 said:


> The only reason I didnt get the 85t was because the left bud cannot be used independently of the right side.


Yes! That's extremely frustrating, especially on long meeting days where hot-swapping buds would be perfect. It's the one thing keeping the Live in contention for me at the moment.


TK33 said:


> Since the pandemic/working from home started, I started developing pain in my right ear from having earbuds in my ear for 4-5 hours / day for just calls (add another few hours for music). Never would have thought call quality and independent earbud usage would have become top features for me.


You might be a good WH3 candidate, then. I know you already have the beans, but this could be a good alternative if you want something with more of a seal that doesn't make your ears claustrophobic. Those with the Azla Crystal tips had the most natural VoIP call sound on my end and everybody heard me plenty well on theirs. The buds are hot-swappable and I think the mic being at the end of the stem helps as long as you're clean-shaven. I'm not and, if I'm not careful, will get ridiculous microphonics from my beard.

And you raise a good point. Regular hygiene is important, both for your ears and for your TWS, especially to stave off any risk of ear pain. Sometimes it's just soreness from the small bones inside your ear being pushed out from deep-insertion tips, but it could also be from things like trapped humidity, impacted cerumen (fancy term for your ear canal being plugged with wax), excess sweat, irritation from the tips sliding in/out, etc. I find that rinsing my ears out under the shower daily and cleaning the tips at least once a week really helps keep that under control. Additionally, though I don't know many that would be this strict about their regimen, but you could always swab your ears before and after using a set of buds...every time. Nothing there means nothing can get picked up, pushed in, or swirled around.

Q-tips are cheap; appointments at the audiologist are less so. Protect your ears.


----------



## TK33

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Yes! That's extremely frustrating, especially on long meeting days where hot-swapping buds would be perfect. It's the one thing keeping the Live in contention for me at the moment.
> 
> You might be a good WH3 candidate, then. I know you already have the beans, but this could be a good alternative if you want something with more of a seal that doesn't make your ears claustrophobic. Those with the Azla Crystal tips had the most natural VoIP call sound on my end and everybody heard me plenty well on theirs. The buds are hot-swappable and I think the mic being at the end of the stem helps as long as you're clean-shaven. I'm not and, if I'm not careful, will get ridiculous microphonics from my beard.
> 
> ...


Thanks. May need to think about the WH3.  I just cant get over earbuds with stems for some reason.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

TK33 said:


> Thanks. May need to think about the WH3.  I just cant get over earbuds with stems for some reason.


Maybe you're concerned about something touching the side of your face? Much like regular earbuds (not IEMs), I can angle them a little bit outward so the stems don't make contact with anywhere in particular.

It's funny; I'm on the other side of the fence, convincing myself that I don't need the beans. There's too many mid-fi sets of IEMs that I'd rather be saving up for at the moment.


----------



## tinyman392

miserybeforethemusic said:


> It's not your ears; it's the 85t's default tuning. Very boring. I gave it a little bit of a facelift with EQ, but they'll never be on the same SQ level as some of the other stuff out there.
> 
> Fit-wise, they're a bit bizarre since you don't have that feedback of pressure building up in your ear to tell you that it's been done right. They're nowhere near as deep as a set of IEMs, either, which is probably also throwing you off. Definitely not a pair for everybody (much like the Earin A-3, it seems), but they do the job well enough.


I didn't find the default tuning too bad on the Jabra 85t.  The EQ I have setup for it is a relatively simple bass shelf to control it a bit more.  Granted pushing the upper mids and treble a bit does add a bit of clarity to it which is nice.


----------



## TK33

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Maybe you're concerned about something touching the side of your face? Much like regular earbuds (not IEMs), I can angle them a little bit outward so the stems don't make contact with anywhere in particular.
> 
> It's funny; I'm on the other side of the fence, convincing myself that I don't need the beans. There's too many mid-fi sets of IEMs that I'd rather be saving up for at the moment.


Yes that and I am also convincing myself that I dont need another one and to suck it up since WFH may end in a few months.  May just deal with it and use the Zoom dialin feature instead of VOIP with the beans as I used to do when they are back with me. Also dont see WH3 in stock anywhere but good to know there are some other swappable buds out there.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

TK33 said:


> Yes that and I am also convincing myself that I dont need another one and to suck it up since WFH may end in a few months.  May just deal with it and use the Zoom dialin feature instead of VOIP with the beans as I used to do when they are back with me. Also dont see WH3 in stock anywhere but good to know there are some other swappable buds out there.


I honestly prefer that way, though some of our projects have transitioned to Teams and require special credentials that I can't reach by phone. Have had my home internet drop out in the middle of calls more than once, so it's the only way I've managed to be able to at least stay connected to audio. I can still log in on the computer for video.

You'd think Jabra would have managed to figure out hot-swappable buds by now, especially since they've shown they can retrofit ANC onto a pair that wasn't sold with it. Here's to hoping they can add a whole lot to the next product line. Would love to see high-bitrate codec support, independent use of left and right buds, and a bit of a tuning refresh.


tinyman392 said:


> I didn't find the default tuning too bad on the Jabra 85t.  The EQ I have setup for it is a relatively simple bass shelf to control it a bit more.  Granted pushing the upper mids and treble a bit does add a bit of clarity to it which is nice.


Setting up a shelf is pretty smart, given how limited the EQ is. Do you run that on top of the MySound profile?


----------



## tinyman392

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Setting up a shelf is pretty smart, given how limited the EQ is. Do you run that on top of the MySound profile?


I felt the 85t already had enough pinna gain, so I didn't push that much further; but I do see the want to push it a little more.  I just found the bass a little high for my liking.  I disabled MySound.


----------



## Bhelpoori

Taz777 said:


> *Jabra Elite 85t - First Impressions!*
> 
> I've just had a couple of hours with my new Jabra Elite 85t wireless IEMs and and here are some first impressions in case these are on anyone else's TWS shortlist.
> 
> ...


I use the 85ts for lots of calls and this doesn’t match the performance of mine which are good on calls, certainly not fuzzy and noisy…


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

Bhelpoori said:


> I use the 85ts for lots of calls and this doesn’t match the performance of mine which are good on calls, certainly not fuzzy and noisy…


I can emulate the same effect on mine; largely depends on the connection and the caller, but I don't find dialogue on the 85t to be very articulate. Ironic, considering Jabra's pedigree is in the VoIP/conference call space, but I think their DSP is overcompensating a bit trying to make callers' voices seem smoother than they are and it results in a bit of grain. Maybe it's possible that's what he's they're hearing?


----------



## Taz777

Bhelpoori said:


> I use the 85ts for lots of calls and this doesn’t match the performance of mine which are good on calls, certainly not fuzzy and noisy…


I updated my post a short while ago. I received a call later this afternoon and the sound quality was very good both ways! There must have been another issue calling my answering machine.


----------



## 100Pipers

Luchyres said:


> I'm enjoying the Devialet Gemini sound - but an annoying issue has cropped up. It seems that every few seconds to minutes the touch-panel on one of the buds is being triggered pausing or unpausing music at random intervals. At first I thought it was my hair or something affecting source app but after removing those variables it seems the TWS itself may be somehow triggering the touch zone internally (perhaps moisture, it is humid here right now). It seems to be the right bud which also is 20% lower battery than the L....
> 
> I've tried an initial go at re-setting, but thus far no success - the issue is still happening. If anyone else has experienced this or has a good tip please let me know!
> 
> ...


Not experienced the touch panel glitch, but when using them earlier today, battery started at left 97 percent and right 57 percent, 15 mins later right side was dead and left still at 92 percent. I shall fully charge and hope for the best.


----------



## Bhelpoori

miserybeforethemusic said:


> I can emulate the same effect on mine; largely depends on the connection and the caller, but I don't find dialogue on the 85t to be very articulate. Ironic, considering Jabra's pedigree is in the VoIP/conference call space, but I think their DSP is overcompensating a bit trying to make callers' voices seem smoother than they are and it results in a bit of grain. Maybe it's possible that's what he's they're hearing?


Is this through a VoIP app or a standard phone call (two different Bluetooth protocols and potentially codecs…???


----------



## Luchyres

cresny said:


> I've experienced this too, but very seldomly. I think all I did was put them back in the case for a moment and they were fixed but I can't remember, but it could have been humidity for me, too. All I can suggest is to see if it continues to happen in an air conditioned environment, but it does seem like there is a defect. Have you contacted support? They are pretty responsive.


Thanks for your reply! I put them back in the case to recharge fully and then they returned to normal functionality.  I'm going to keep playing with them for sure and if it's consistently just the right earbud I'll assume that there is a hardware defect of some sort that may be responsible for both the pausing and potentially battery depletion in the master bud. I hope not, but this issue is one I definitely can't live with :/. 





100Pipers said:


> Not experienced the touch panel glitch, but when using them earlier today, battery started at left 97 percent and right 57 percent, 15 mins later right side was dead and left still at 92 percent. I shall fully charge and hope for the best.


Interesting... please keep us posted as well, please. I'm going to start a listening session now to test.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

Bhelpoori said:


> Is this through a VoIP app or a standard phone call (two different Bluetooth protocols and potentially codecs…???


Multiple methods, honestly:

Bluetooth (SBC) directly from the laptop
Bluetooth over a Link 380
Over dial-in calls on my phone
Over VoIP apps on my phone
I think stuff like the 85t just helps reveal how bad some of the microphones on other peoples' devices can be. Takes clever filtering to compensate for it or, in some unique cases, some tunings lend themselves better for it.


----------



## Bhelpoori

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Multiple methods, honestly:
> 
> Bluetooth (SBC) directly from the laptop
> Bluetooth over a Link 380
> ...


Thanks. This is weird as it is some more generic issue.  It is really very difficult to trace stuff like this…


----------



## cresny

Luchyres said:


> Thanks for your reply! I put them back in the case to recharge fully and then they returned to normal functionality.  I'm going to keep playing with them for sure and if it's consistently just the right earbud I'll assume that there is a hardware defect of some sort that may be responsible for both the pausing and potentially battery depletion in the master bud. I hope not, but this issue is one I definitely can't live with :/.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


iirc I think low charge had something to do with mine as well. If so it's not consistent as in _every _time charge is depleted, because I've used them several times since then and ran them down to the warning "bong" sound. Anyway if it is a defect it is a rare one I can live with, and hopefully you will find same.


----------



## erockg

Luchyres said:


> I'm enjoying the Devialet Gemini sound - but an annoying issue has cropped up. It seems that every few seconds to minutes the touch-panel on one of the buds is being triggered pausing or unpausing music at random intervals. At first I thought it was my hair or something affecting source app but after removing those variables it seems the TWS itself may be somehow triggering the touch zone internally (perhaps moisture, it is humid here right now). It seems to be the right bud which also is 20% lower battery than the L....
> 
> I've tried an initial go at re-setting, but thus far no success - the issue is still happening. If anyone else has experienced this or has a good tip please let me know!
> 
> ...


Did you do the below?  My new pair came with the updated firmware and had a minor issue but I did this and they've been fine for weeks now:

From Devialet back when the firmware was bad:

"Thank you for your response.

Your headphones are up to date, good news. 

I invite you to perform the following manipulation: 

- Remove and put the earphones one by one in the case.
- Close the case
- Press the button, and in the meantime
- Open/close the case twice in a row
- Release the button

Did the light turn flashing orange and then green for a moment?

If yes, the reset has been well done, and you will be able to put the box in pairing mode again.

Forget in your phone's Bluetooth settings any device linked to Gemini.

Then repair with Gemini L and pair with R.

This should solve the problem you are experiencing.

Feel free to come back to me if you need me. 

Wishing you a very nice day! 

Maxim | Customer service & support Devialet"​


----------



## RainyDog

chinmie said:


> i have both, and i happen to use donut foams on them to beefy-up the sound a bit. it also add grip, but in term of fitting i think even without foam it still sit snug on my ears. here's a couple of picture comparison to help a bit


Thanks chinmie, just what I was looking for!

The Vooplay do look like they'll sit snug outside my canals better than the Buds Live. Especially with the covers on for extra grip.

A couple of colours are currently $42.99 on Amazon.com anyway, so I've taken a punt on a pair and a bag of foam/sponge covers.


----------



## howdy

miserybeforethemusic said:


> EQ-wise, here's where I am with the 85t. It's subtle, but brings a little more life back into the mix while staying compatible with most genres.


I thought my 85ts where a bit boring as well until I got the Diofit eartips for them as they have bigger sizes. The new eartips made all the difference for me, there not the best but definitely no slouch.


----------



## bladefd

Juturna said:


> Ah, thanks for the detailed response! I was originally gonna order the CA MT's too, but I feel like they lack a few of the features that I want right now, because I'm trying to just get myself a pair of earbuds that will be my go-to earbuds for at least a year or so. So I really do want the ANC, Qi, comfortable fit, reasonably sized charging case and all that jazz. I could see myself ordering the CA MT's more like a complement if anything because of that price, but yeah.
> 
> 
> I've heard some really bad things about the sound on the KEF MU3 and the NFP's are way too expensive for me to order them overseas as well not being able to demo them. I live in Europe and I definitely prefer ordering at least from within the EU if possible, to avoid unnecessary import taxes and stuff, I think the NFP's would end up costing me as much as the PI7's if I ordered them honestly. I can find the KEF MU3 but from what i've heard they're not worth the money.
> ...


MT are pretty much barebones. They are great if you are just looking for comfort, good quality sound, app, and a cheap price. You get ipx3 and hearthrough mode, but I haven't extensively tested either. You don't get a lot of other features. Just the bare essential stuff to keep the cost down.


----------



## jant71 (Jun 22, 2021)

miserybeforethemusic said:


> It's not your ears; it's the 85t's default tuning. Very boring. I gave it a little bit of a facelift with EQ, but they'll never be on the same SQ level as some of the other stuff out there.



Way too many with the safe and more polite tuning that can be boring. This reminded me to pull the screens from my ATH-CKR70TW and get a look and...




...find these are in there and pull them out. The set up is there to sound lively and balanced not smoothed and have a polite slope downward as you go up higher in the freqs.



What is in there and the sgnature didn't quite equate. Yes, if the Victor and Senn MTW2 are equal like some reviews state this does slightly edge out on the Victor which I have sold recently. Worth the price but not the signature and crispness and detail retrieval it seemed it could have and was nagging me a bit. Now they are lovely and more what they should sound like. Might be playing it safe with the sound and perhaps the moisture protection/IPX rating. Still a potentially excellent sounding earphone masquerading as a very good sounding one. Arrrgh! Damped more of the thump out of the driver as well. Maybe we need to organize a "free our drivers" protest!


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

jant71 said:


> Maybe we need to organize a "free our drivers" protest!


Hahaha the TWS equivalent of compression wars? Could be fun!


----------



## deuter

I seem to have misplaced one of my Grado GT220 earphones and therefore looking to get a new pair.

I'am not up to speed with all the latest products and wanted to check with you all whether there were True Wireless  Custom Earphones or the current Devialet Gemini still the top sound quality ones.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

deuter said:


> I seem to have misplaced one of my Grado GT220 earphones and therefore looking to get a new pair.
> 
> I'am not up to speed with all the latest products and wanted to check with you all whether there were True Wireless  Custom Earphones or the current Devialet Gemini still the top sound quality ones.


There are currently two options for customs that I know of:

Custom Art Go One
ADV M5 Custom


----------



## X-Nemesis

Are there any current TWS that have a similar shape and size to the Mpow M30+, preferably with a transparency mode, ANC not a big deal.  These have been the best fitting TWS I've tried so far and they're are so minimal, similar to the EarFun free Pro's but a much better fit.


----------



## erockg (Jun 23, 2021)

The Good News.  The new Lypertek Pureplay Z7 are really nice.  Unboxing experience was quality.  You get a many tips, silicone and foam.  USB C cable and wireless charging.  Charging case is a different build but the charging contacts on the bottom of the buds are the same.  The nozzles are the same as the NFP except they're metal on the Lypertek, not plastic.  The buds do have the same lower half shell as the NFP, but the top half is a button, not a touchpad.  Both use the Qualcomm 3040 Chipset, which is Bluetooth 5.2.  After doing more research, both the Lypertek site and the Noble audio site have photos of the build _inside_ the buds.  They're identical.  I'm sure they're tuned different but...

The Bad News.  I opened them up, charged them, wait, they were charged.  Put on the foam tips.  They were a bitch to get on.  After a second I decided to put silicone tips on, but as I pulled the foam of, the nozzle on the left bud broke off instantly.  Design flaw?  All in all, they're going back for a replacement.  They're very nice and definitely worth another shot.  Had them about ten minutes and didn't even get to listen more than 30 seconds.  Bummer!

Here are some pics, including two screenshots of the driver build inside both the Lypertek and the NFP.


----------



## chinmie

erockg said:


> The Good News.  The new Lypertek Pureplay Z7 are really nice.  Unboxing experience was quality.  You get a many tips, silicone and foam.  USB C cable and wireless charging.  Charging case is a different build but the charging contacts on the bottom of the buds are the same.  The nozzles are the same as the NFP except they're metal on the Lypertek, not plastic.  The buds do have the same lower half shell as the NFP, but the top half is a button, not a touchpad.  Both use the Qualcomm 3040 Chipset, which is Bluetooth 5.2.  After doing more research, both the Lypertek site and the Noble audio site have photos of the build _inside_ the buds.  They're identical.  I'm sure they're tuned different but...
> 
> The Bad News.  I opened them up, charged them, wait, they were charged.  Put on.  Put the foam tips.  They were a bitch to get on.  After a second I decided to put silicone tips on, but as I pulled the foam of, the nozzle on the left bud broke off instantly.  Design flaw?  All in all, they're going back for a replacement.  They're very nice and definitely worth another shot.  Had them about ten minutes and didn't even get to listen more than 30 seconds.  Bummer!
> 
> Here are some pics, including two screenshots of the driver build inside both the Lypertek and the NFP.


 darn.. that's why i always a bit wary with metal nozzles on plastic/resin bodies.. always have a bad feeling that would happen


----------



## assassin10000

chinmie said:


> i have both, and i happen to use donut foams on them to beefy-up the sound a bit. it also add grip, but in term of fitting i think even without foam it still sit snug on my ears. here's a couple of picture comparison to help a bit
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: photos


How does the Vooplay compare to the x12 ultra? Sound & fit wise.


miserybeforethemusic said:


> It's funny; I'm on the other side of the fence, convincing myself that I don't need the beans. There's too many mid-fi sets of IEMs that I'd rather be saving up for at the moment.



They've become my most used audio device. Comfortable, no tips to clean/swap, tiny case, wireless charging and I massively prefer non-isolating vs ambient/hear through.

Just a touch of EQ to bring the slightly elevated harman'ish signature they're tuned with down for my preferences.


----------



## chinmie

assassin10000 said:


> How does the Vooplay compare to the x12 ultra? Sound & fit wise.
> 
> 
> They've become my most used audio device. Comfortable, no tips to clean/swap, tiny case, wireless charging and I massively prefer non-isolating vs ambient/hear through.
> ...



i don't have the ultra because i already have two x12 pro and they're still working  

here's how the x12 fit on my ears:


Spoiler: photo









fit-wise, both the X12 and the Vooplay are equally comfortable for me, but if i have to rate them, I'd say the X12 is more snug because the form of the body have more surface area touching my ears. 

sound-wise, I'm using the vooplay with foams to increase warmth and adding subbass impact (it can reach low like the Buds Live). without foams the sound is fine, but a bit V shaped and thin on the mids for my taste. 
compared to the Buds Live, the Buds Live sounds even more V shaped than the Vooplay. i Like the Sabbat sound more for music and podcast, and the Buds Live for movies

the X12 Pro has a more earbud kind of airy-ness to the sound with more forward vocals. i don't use foams on my X12 because it looses the air, makes the soundstage narrower, and doesn't add any subbass reach (only adding a bit warmth on the midbass). 

interestingly, my older X12 (with micro usb) has the most forward mids, while the usb-c X12 pro has more treble and bass, and more closer to the Vooplay in sound. maybe they tuned them slightly with each version? so maybe (just a theory) the X12 ultra is even more closer to the Vooplay in sound?


----------



## assassin10000

chinmie said:


> i don't have the ultra because i already have two x12 pro and they're still working
> 
> here's how the x12 fit on my ears:
> 
> ...


Ah, yeah. Looks like the X12 sits further in than the Vooplay. I was hoping it was the other way around, as then it'd be another DIY mod candidate for me.


Unfortunately I was never able to A/B the Pro vs Ultra. But it wouldn't surprise me if so.


----------



## Devodonaldson

erockg said:


> The Good News.  The new Lypertek Pureplay Z7 are really nice.  Unboxing experience was quality.  You get a many tips, silicone and foam.  USB C cable and wireless charging.  Charging case is a different build but the charging contacts on the bottom of the buds are the same.  The nozzles are the same as the NFP except they're metal on the Lypertek, not plastic.  The buds do have the same lower half shell as the NFP, but the top half is a button, not a touchpad.  Both use the Qualcomm 3040 Chipset, which is Bluetooth 5.2.  After doing more research, both the Lypertek site and the Noble audio site have photos of the build _inside_ the buds.  They're identical.  I'm sure they're tuned different but...
> 
> The Bad News.  I opened them up, charged them, wait, they were charged.  Put on the foam tips.  They were a bitch to get on.  After a second I decided to put silicone tips on, but as I pulled the foam of, the nozzle on the left bud broke off instantly.  Design flaw?  All in all, they're going back for a replacement.  They're very nice and definitely worth another shot.  Had them about ten minutes and didn't even get to listen more than 30 seconds.  Bummer!
> 
> Here are some pics, including two screenshots of the driver build inside both the Lypertek and the NFP.


same happened to my NFP. I was freaking out. i put the nozzle back on, it went on really tight, and isnt loose. i then fired the iem up, and....No issue whatsoever. send them back, sure, but check to see if you can still listen to them. Is your plan to send that back in the morning? If it isn't you may still be able to get a good idea of the SQ if it still works


----------



## jant71 (Jun 23, 2021)

Nuarl N6 Pro 2... https://nuarl-com.translate.goog/n6...r_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en-US&_x_tr_pto=ajax,se,elem
BT 5.2, aptX Adaptive, "external sound capture", gaming mode, improved sound and app. No wireless charging it seems. Same price as before.


----------



## revand

miserybeforethemusic said:


> I'd ask @twister6 or some of the folks who got review samples. Going off the WH3, thought, they're totally different tonalities. Don't think I'd consider the WH2 and XM4 to be a very apples-to-apples comparison outside of their support for LDAC.


Maybe the tonality is different, but interesting to know about the SQ difference. I will pay a bit more than third of the price of the SONY and I am not convinced that the SONY worth so much more money even if it is an excellent device.


----------



## jant71

Devodonaldson said:


> same happened to my NFP. I was freaking out. i put the nozzle back on, it went on really tight, and isnt loose. i then fired the iem up, and....No issue whatsoever. send them back, sure, but check to see if you can still listen to them. Is your plan to send that back in the morning? If it isn't you may still be able to get a good idea of the SQ if it still works



Still, for $200 and $300 respectively for the two models things should not be popping off of them.


----------



## erockg

Devodonaldson said:


> same happened to my NFP. I was freaking out. i put the nozzle back on, it went on really tight, and isnt loose. i then fired the iem up, and....No issue whatsoever. send them back, sure, but check to see if you can still listen to them. Is your plan to send that back in the morning? If it isn't you may still be able to get a good idea of the SQ if it still works


Sadly, they're packed up and ready to be returned.  New ones arrived tomorrow.  I've heard this happen to others.  Definitely a design flaw or poor manufacturing.


----------



## erockg

jant71 said:


> Still, for $200 and $300 respectively for the two models things should not be popping off of them.


I don't disagree.  We'll see if the next pair has the same issue.  Glad it an easy return on Amazon and not elsewhere.


----------



## nekonhime

jant71 said:


> Nuarl N6 Pro 2... https://nuarl-com.translate.goog/n6...r_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en-US&_x_tr_pto=ajax,se,elem
> BT 5.2, aptX Adaptive, "external sound capture", gaming mode, improved sound and app. No wireless charging it seems. Same price as before.


Look like I will have to wait for the n10 pro 2


----------



## Devodonaldson

erockg said:


> Sadly, they're packed up and ready to be returned.  New ones arrived tomorrow.  I've heard this happen to others.  Definitely a design flaw or poor manufacturing.


See, I was unaware of this "issue". For me, it happened as I was attempting to simply remove an earlier. I just thought I had killed a $320 tws, and I was screwed. When I put it back on, I was relieved to know that it played just fine. Didn't think I'd be able to return them. So, I guess it's covered under warranty then?


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

Devodonaldson said:


> See, I was unaware of this "issue". For me, it happened as I was attempting to simply remove an earlier. I just thought I had killed a $320 tws, and I was screwed. When I put it back on, I was relieved to know that it played just fine. Didn't think I'd be able to return them. So, I guess it's covered under warranty then?


If you're referring to the Falcon Pro, same thing happened with mine and John just had me send it back in to be fixed. I have a feeling it's a known issue with that shell style. The new set feels much sturdier there, so maybe it got fixed.


----------



## erockg

Devodonaldson said:


> See, I was unaware of this "issue". For me, it happened as I was attempting to simply remove an earlier. I just thought I had killed a $320 tws, and I was screwed. When I put it back on, I was relieved to know that it played just fine. Didn't think I'd be able to return them. So, I guess it's covered under warranty then?


I just returned them to Amazon via Prime as defective, so essentially, yes, still covered.


----------



## Devodonaldson

erockg said:


> I just returned them to Amazon via Prime as defective, so essentially, yes, still covered.


I purchased mine in February.  Just emailed Jim today. Using my email, they found my purchase info and are sending me the RMA info so I can send them in. 1yr warranty. They work, but after that, I want to be assured that the ip rating says intact so I'll be sending back. They've been functioning as my workout iems, so I'll miss them, but I have wfxm4, galaxy buds live, and galaxy Buds pro as well. The xm4 are my daily, and the Galaxy have been relegated to gaming duty with my galaxy z fold 2. So for now, I'll probably workout with one of those perhaps.


----------



## erockg

Devodonaldson said:


> I purchased mine in February.  Just emailed Jim today. Using my email, they found my purchase info and are sending me the RMA info so I can send them in. 1yr warranty. They work, but after that, I want to be assured that the ip rating says intact so I'll be sending back. They've been functioning as my workout iems, so I'll miss them, but I have wfxm4, galaxy buds live, and galaxy Buds pro as well. The xm4 are my daily, and the Galaxy have been relegated to gaming duty with my galaxy z fold 2. So for now, I'll probably workout with one of those perhaps.


Absolutely. You should definitely get those swapped out. Glad they were receptive. Not that I had any doubt. I really believe now that it's a design flaw on this but since both of them use the same shell.  I've been rocking those Sonys all week. Love them. They're pretty easy to switch between my devices. My iPad, Apple TV and computer. Haven't had any issues.


----------



## nekonhime

Just received the sony wf-1000xm4 today and I will say I am impress with the anc and ambient sound function, not so much with the sound (it seem like it lacking something as the sound profile is muddy and dark). I probably send it back after a few days.


----------



## Devodonaldson

nekonhime said:


> Just received the sony wf-1000xm4 today and I will say I am impress with the anc and ambient sound function, not so much with the sound (it seem like it lacking something as the sound profile is muddy and dark). I probably send it back after a few days.


Switch to silicone tips, spiral dots or epeos work well. Also, per another user +3 to +5 at 2.5k and +2 at 6.3k and 16k. The foam tips do a great job aiding in isolation,  but they warm an already warm sounding iem.


----------



## nekonhime

Devodonaldson said:


> Switch to silicone tips, spiral dots or epeos work well. Also, per another user +3 to +5 at 2.5k and +2 at 6.3k and 16k. The foam tips do a great job aiding in isolation,  but they warm an already warm sounding iem.


I will use my kz tips and try again then


----------



## clerkpalmer

nekonhime said:


> I will use my kz tips and try again then


I’m really sensitive to dark/muddy. I don’t like it one bit. A little tweak to EQ really solves this issue entirely. It’s completely overblown. I’m really warming up to these. The sq is right there with the best I’ve heard.


----------



## PixelSquish

clerkpalmer said:


> I’m really sensitive to dark/muddy. I don’t like it one bit. A little tweak to EQ really solves this issue entirely. It’s completely overblown. I’m really warming up to these. The sq is right there with the best I’ve heard.



Yeah I've been using these silicone tips I had in my drawer that have a wide bore with the XM4, and with a small EQ bump I have been jamming to these the last few days without feeling any impulse to adjust them. On the other hand I have noticed a couple glitches, though they simply fixed themselves by pausing and playing the music again.


----------



## nekonhime

clerkpalmer said:


> I’m really sensitive to dark/muddy. I don’t like it one bit. A little tweak to EQ really solves this issue entirely. It’s completely overblown. I’m really warming up to these. The sq is right there with the best I’ve heard.


So sony ear tips are bad then.
I did change the ear tips to kz e10 one and those blow my a** off. Goddamn sony....


----------



## Devodonaldson

nekonhime said:


> So sony ear tips are bad then.
> I did change the ear tips to kz e10 one and those blow my a** off. Goddamn sony....


They aren't bad. Sony promotes near class leasing ANC. The stock tips play a big role in that as well. Sony house sound is also a warmer tuning. Details are there, bit recessed. I didn't think they sounded bad, but could use a bit extension in the treble and lifted mids, which are easy to do with tip change and slight eq tweaks. The fact that they allow for this, and is stays with the iem shows they had the idea for customization to the users liking. People may not have preferred the Tock tune, but modifying it isn't difficult at all


----------



## nekonhime

Devodonaldson said:


> They aren't bad. Sony promotes near class leasing ANC. The stock tips play a big role in that as well. Sony house sound is also a warmer tuning. Details are there, bit recessed. I didn't think they sounded bad, but could use a bit extension in the treble and lifted mids, which are easy to do with tip change and slight eq tweaks. The fact that they allow for this, and is stays with the iem shows they had the idea for customization to the users liking. People may not have preferred the Tock tune, but modifying it isn't difficult at all


I think the Sony ear tips provide better anc, but it also sacrifice the sound. On the other hand, other ear tips degrade the anc like 10% but they also giving a better sound.


----------



## typhoon838

This is totally random and not related to wherever this thread is at right now, but I just want to check back after like a year and emphasize how great the Tronsmart Apollo Bolds still are.


----------



## davidcotton

deuter said:


> I seem to have misplaced one of my Grado GT220 earphones and therefore looking to get a new pair.
> 
> I'am not up to speed with all the latest products and wanted to check with you all whether there were True Wireless  Custom Earphones or the current Devialet Gemini still the top sound quality ones.


Snugs do custom tips for the well known ones.  They also have a range where you can take a photo of each ear, send that in and they match the ear to the database.  Only issue there is when it comes to charging the buds.


----------



## Firevortex (Jun 24, 2021)

jant71 said:


> Nuarl N6 Pro 2... https://nuarl-com.translate.goog/n6...r_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en-US&_x_tr_pto=ajax,se,elem
> BT 5.2, aptX Adaptive, "external sound capture", gaming mode, improved sound and app. No wireless charging it seems. Same price as before.



Gonna ask my local stockist if they will have it on release day  might take one for the team.

Looking up aptX Adaptive thats the same thing 24bit bowers & wilkins PI7 uses.


----------



## cresny

cresny said:


> iirc I think low charge had something to do with mine as well. If so it's not consistent as in _every _time charge is depleted, because I've used them several times since then and ran them down to the warning "bong" sound. Anyway if it is a defect it is a rare one I can live with, and hopefully you will find same.


@Luchyres I just experienced this again. Charge was around 48% and it kept clicking off from the left earpiece. I put both back in the case for about 10 seconds, and upon reconnection the pausing stopped though there was still an occasional click sound from the left side. I then put them in the case for 10 minutes and all good. BTW, low humidity. 

As long as this is just an occasional thing it's something I won't even bother to contact support about (maybe in three years when my Devialet Care replacement warranty is about to expire ).


----------



## gwompki

I received my Devialet Gemini on Tuesday and wanted to share my impressions so far.

1) Pairing - This was not nearly as smooth as the process with Sony or Bose, but I will forgive that.  
2) Sound - The sound to my ears bests both the Bose QC buds and Sony XM3 and XM4.  Solid impactful bass that is not flabby and goes very low.  The mids and highs might be a little rougher than the Bose, but luckily I find the EQ very functional and much better than the Sony EQ.  Knocking a few DBs off a couple of the mid/high bands and it is just right for me.  The sound stage is wide and enjoyable.  I will say I had a very tough time getting a good seal with the stock tips.  I've experimented with some other tips I have on hand, but unfortunately most of them are too large to fit into the case.  I have some tips that I cut a few mm off the stem and was able to get them to fit in the box and still give me a good seal.  Still experimenting in this area.
3) Features - I find the noise cancelling and touch controls to be nice and mostly intuitive.  I don't think the noise cancelling is at the same level as the Sony or Bose, but I don't have them side by side to compare.  I like the active pass through for walking, but the touch controls to switch between the noise cancelling and pass through does not always seem to work unless the app is actually open.  
4) Comfort - The comfort is not nearly as good as the Bose or Sony, but luckily it's certainly not bad.  I have a bit more trouble keeping these in my ears and feel like I'm having to check them every so often to make sure they aren't falling out of my ears.
5) Calls - Haven't done a ton of calls yet, but folks say I sound like I'm in a tin can or am underwater.  All calls were done in very noisy environments though.
6) The not so good - I unfortunately continue to have a problem with the right bud not pausing the music when I take it out of my ear.  If I factory reset both buds it will resolve this issue for a while but eventually goes back to not working.  Also on the right bud I get a very strange chirping noise when it is out of my ear and I cover the nozzle with my finger.  I have no idea what this could be other than maybe a side effect of the  "EAM" tech.  I have an open support case with Devialet about these issues.

I think unfortunately I'm going to have to send it back which due to the hardware issues unless support can come up with a fix for me.  I really really like these and hope if I get a replacement pair that it will resolve the issues I'm having.  Will wait and see what support has to say.


----------



## helmutcheese

Tried search first:

 Morph: Seamlessly Switch Audio Across All Devices











On various crowdfunding sites.


----------



## cresny

gwompki said:


> I received my Devialet Gemini on Tuesday and wanted to share my impressions so far.
> 
> 1) Pairing - This was not nearly as smooth as the process with Sony or Bose, but I will forgive that.
> 2) Sound - The sound to my ears bests both the Bose QC buds and Sony XM3 and XM4.  Solid impactful bass that is not flabby and goes very low.  The mids and highs might be a little rougher than the Bose, but luckily I find the EQ very functional and much better than the Sony EQ.  Knocking a few DBs off a couple of the mid/high bands and it is just right for me.  The sound stage is wide and enjoyable.  I will say I had a very tough time getting a good seal with the stock tips.  I've experimented with some other tips I have on hand, but unfortunately most of them are too large to fit into the case.  I have some tips that I cut a few mm off the stem and was able to get them to fit in the box and still give me a good seal.  Still experimenting in this area.
> ...


Sorry you couldn't get a good fit. I'm guessing that might be a source of other things you are experiencing. Ear Active Matching is a real thing and might be factoring in here somehow. I happen to like the newer stock tips, but before that I had good success with SpinFit 360s. Good luck!


----------



## gwompki

cresny said:


> Sorry you couldn't get a good fit. I'm guessing that might be a source of other things you are experiencing. Ear Active Matching is a real thing and might be factoring in here somehow. I happen to like the newer stock tips, but before that I had good success with SpinFit 360s. Good luck!



I get a great fit with non-standard tips luckily.  I just tried the stock tips again and after futzing with them I am able to get them to fit and they are probably actually more comfortable.  I need to listen to them with fresh ears.

I will try a set of spinfit 360s.  Do they fit in the case?

Just curious do you have any issues with the touch controls to switch between the noise cancelling and transparency modes?  I cannot get that to work unless I have the app open (which totally defeats the purpose).

Support has acknowledged that I have a hardware problem so they are sending me a new set.  Fingers crossed.  These are just about the best I could hope for in terms of sound for the price and currently available tech.


----------



## samandhi

Hmmm. Interesting: https://www.behringer.com/product.html?modelCode=P0EI0 and https://www.behringer.com/product.html?modelCode=P0F6R Not up to snuff compared to the other stuff, but they are absolutely cheap as seen HERE. Looks like the T-buds haven't been released yet?!


----------



## helmutcheese

4 hours use?


----------



## samandhi

That's what it looks like, but at $39, one can only wonder how good or crappy they might sound. Might be worth it to order them regardless for that price.

And the True Buds look suspiciously like the Sennheiser TWS....


----------



## cresny

gwompki said:


> I get a great fit with non-standard tips luckily.  I just tried the stock tips again and after futzing with them I am able to get them to fit and they are probably actually more comfortable.  I need to listen to them with fresh ears.
> 
> I will try a set of spinfit 360s.  Do they fit in the case?
> 
> ...


You should have no issues switching from ANC to transparency without the phone involved. Just a long press on either bud should get the rising tone for transparency, or the opposite for ANC. If you've reset them and it still does not work then, yeah, your unit is probably faulty.

Fwiw, I had SpinFit mediums fitting fine in the case.


----------



## bladefd

helmutcheese said:


> 4 hours use?


Seeing how companies have been doing false advertising lately (*cough cough* HiBy), I would also want to know if 4 hours are cited with aptx or aac or sbc. If it's 4hrs with sbc, then you might be lucky to get 3hrs max with aptx.


----------



## erockg

erockg said:


> The Good News.  The new Lypertek Pureplay Z7 are really nice.  Unboxing experience was quality.  You get a many tips, silicone and foam.  USB C cable and wireless charging.  Charging case is a different build but the charging contacts on the bottom of the buds are the same.  The nozzles are the same as the NFP except they're metal on the Lypertek, not plastic.  The buds do have the same lower half shell as the NFP, but the top half is a button, not a touchpad.  Both use the Qualcomm 3040 Chipset, which is Bluetooth 5.2.  After doing more research, both the Lypertek site and the Noble audio site have photos of the build _inside_ the buds.  They're identical.  I'm sure they're tuned different but...
> 
> The Bad News.  I opened them up, charged them, wait, they were charged.  Put on the foam tips.  They were a bitch to get on.  After a second I decided to put silicone tips on, but as I pulled the foam of, the nozzle on the left bud broke off instantly.  Design flaw?  All in all, they're going back for a replacement.  They're very nice and definitely worth another shot.  Had them about ten minutes and didn't even get to listen more than 30 seconds.  Bummer!
> 
> Here are some pics, including two screenshots of the driver build inside both the Lypertek and the NFP.


Replacements arrived.  Yes, these are damn good.  I recommend.  Package and buds feel premium.  They are loud like the NFPs.  You can EQ them like the NFPs.  So far, they are up there with the NFPs in sound quality to my ears.  Still testing, only had them for a few hours.  Bass is punchy.  Passthrough is eh.  Works, but could be better.  Buttons work great.  Prefer the buttons than the touch pad on the NFPs.  I'm using Sennheiser MTW 2 tips on them and they're working nice.  Amazon had these for $199 with a free Qi charge pad.  So far, I'm a happy camper... unless a bud tip breaks again!


----------



## helmutcheese

Can you power on/off and enter pairing via the buttons?


----------



## erockg

helmutcheese said:


> Can you power on/off and enter pairing via the buttons?


I’m not sure.  Nothing that says how in the manual.  I would think there’s a way.


----------



## SemiAudiophile

erockg said:


> Replacements arrived.  Yes, these are damn good.  I recommend.  Package and buds feel premium.  They are loud like the NFPs.  You can EQ them like the NFPs.  So far, they are up there with the NFPs in sound quality to my ears.  Still testing, only had them for a few hours.  Bass is punchy.  Passthrough is eh.  Works, but could be better.  Buttons work great.  Prefer the buttons than the touch pad on the NFPs.  I'm using Sennheiser MTW 2 tips on them and they're working nice.  Amazon had these for $199 with a free Qi charge pad.  So far, I'm a happy camper... unless a bud tip breaks again!


How are the tuning on those? The Tevi's remind me a lot like the ER4 which is DF neutral or what I call flat neutral I guess? They almost sound exactly the same except Tevi's sound a bit grainy in comparison and the resolution of course is better on the ER4. 

I like DF neutral, but it can sound boring. So I usually EQ them to Harman which I've been preferring more lately. I feel like Harman just brings out more natural vocals and less shout.


----------



## erockg

SemiAudiophile said:


> How are the tuning on those? The Tevi's remind me a lot like the ER4 which is DF neutral or what I call flat neutral I guess? They almost sound exactly the same except Tevi's sound a bit grainy in comparison and the resolution of course is better on the ER4.
> 
> I like DF neutral, but it can sound boring. So I usually EQ them to Harman which I've been preferring more lately. I feel like Harman just brings out more natural vocals and less shout.


I would say they’re neutral.  The instrument separation is really great depending on the quality of the mix.  Sounds stage is wide, not overly wide.  These are more natural than my Devialet Gemini which I do love.  With a Little Rock EQ they’re quite nice.  Vocals are clear and you can hear some breath.  I’m impressed.  Never owned a Lypertek set before. What’s a good Harman curve using this app?


----------



## SemiAudiophile (Jun 25, 2021)

erockg said:


> I would say they’re neutral.  The instrument separation is really great depending on the quality of the mix.  Sounds stage is wide, not overly wide.  These are more natural than my Devialet Gemini which I do love.  With a Little Rock EQ they’re quite nice.  Vocals are clear and you can hear some breath.  I’m impressed.  Never owned a Lypertek set before. What’s a good Harman curve using this app?


Ah, looks like Lypertek finally updated their app. 👍 Not sure with that app, but I've been using Wavelet's AutoEQ. Don't know if anyone made a preset for the z7 yet but you might be able to find some online. The Tevi's respond really well to EQ so I'm sure the z7 will too.


----------



## erockg

SemiAudiophile said:


> Ah, looks like Lypertek finally updated their app. 👍 Not sure with that app, but I've been using Wavelet's AutoEQ. Don't know if anyone made a preset for the z7 yet but you might be able to find some online. The Tevi's respond really well to EQ so I'm sure the z7 will too.


Blast!  iPhone here.  No app.


----------



## nekonhime

erockg said:


> I would say they’re neutral.  The instrument separation is really great depending on the quality of the mix.  Sounds stage is wide, not overly wide.  These are more natural than my Devialet Gemini which I do love.  With a Little Rock EQ they’re quite nice.  Vocals are clear and you can hear some breath.  I’m impressed.  Never owned a Lypertek set before. What’s a good Harman curve using this app?


So which one is better between the lypertek and Gemini?


----------



## erockg

nekonhime said:


> So which one is better between the lypertek and Gemini?


Two completely different animals.  I’d say the Lypertek are more clinical than the Devialet.  If you want ANC, the Z7s do not have it.  But they do have decent passive isolation and insane battery life.   Gemini have great ANC, less battery life but beautiful, full sound, especially with the dynamic setting. They are both great.


----------



## bladefd

erockg said:


> Two completely different animals.  I’d say the Lypertek are more clinical than the Devialet.  If you want ANC, the Z7s do not have it.  But they do have decent passive isolation and insane battery life.   Gemini have great ANC, less battery life but beautiful, full sound, especially with the dynamic setting. They are both great.


Wow, Lypertek is $200. Decent price, and I like the specs. Makes me wonder how the fit is.. Looks similar to the Technics z70 design, which I had trouble keeping in my ear without it feeling like it would fall out.

I hope someone will do a basic comparisons to the Melomania Touch. I would be curious to see how it compares. Unlike the Gemini/xm4, the z7 is within my budget.


----------



## gwompki

bladefd said:


> Wow, Lypertek is $200. Decent price, and I like the specs. Makes me wonder how the fit is.. Looks similar to the Technics z70 design, which I had trouble keeping in my ear without it feeling like it would fall out.
> 
> I hope someone will do a basic comparisons to the Melomania Touch. I would be curious to see how it compares. Unlike the Gemini/xm4, the z7 is within my budget.


I would love to get a set of Melomania Touch, but the fact they have been out of stock at Amazon for weeks now has me scratching my head.  If they restock them I will happily order a set and compare.


----------



## C_Lindbergh

gwompki said:


> I would love to get a set of Melomania Touch, but the fact they have been out of stock at Amazon for weeks now has me scratching my head.  If they restock them I will happily order a set and compare.



Maybe they'll restock them when they've applied the upcoming update on their stock?

I just got my third pair delivered (directly from CA this time instead of Amazon), so far I haven't experienced any techincal issues that made me return them twice before, I really hope we can get that rumoured update next week.

Actually I tried them without the wingtip, it was better. 

För tips I currently prefer the Spinfit CP 360, but I will try out the AZLA Crystal once they release the IEM version. I tried the tws variant, but I couldn't get a good seal because of the short stem.


----------



## rhsauer

erockg said:


> Two completely different animals.  I’d say the Lypertek are more clinical than the Devialet.  If you want ANC, the Z7s do not have it.  But they do have decent passive isolation and insane battery life.   Gemini have great ANC, less battery life but beautiful, full sound, especially with the dynamic setting. They are both great.


Did you get your Nuraloop?  Mine came yesterday, and I am pleasantly surprised.  None of the issues I've read about.  Great sound.  More to come.


----------



## SilverEars

Earfun Air Pro any good?  I"ve been interested in these based in measurements at Rtings website.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

C_Lindbergh said:


> Maybe they'll restock them when they've applied the upcoming update on their stock?
> 
> I just got my third pair delivered (directly from CA this time instead of Amazon), so far I haven't experienced any techincal issues that made me return them twice before, I really hope we can get that rumoured update next week.
> 
> ...


The IEM version of the Crystal is supposed to be the Xelastec. Crystal are the TWS tips. Shouldn't need to wait.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

SilverEars said:


> Earfun Air Pro any good?  I"ve been interested in these based in measurements at Rtings website.


@TheOnlyDocc didn't you receive a pair of the Earfun Air Pro recently?


----------



## jasonb

C_Lindbergh said:


> Maybe they'll restock them when they've applied the upcoming update on their stock?
> 
> I just got my third pair delivered (directly from CA this time instead of Amazon), so far I haven't experienced any techincal issues that made me return them twice before, I really hope we can get that rumoured update next week.
> 
> ...



I just ordered a Melomania Touch right from Cambridge Audio. Haven't gotten a shipping notification yet, but I'm excited to try them. Everyone seems to be impressed with their sound, and I've been reading that they are mostly bug free now. So hopefully I enjoy them.


----------



## erockg

rhsauer said:


> Did you get your Nuraloop?  Mine came yesterday, and I am pleasantly surprised.  None of the issues I've read about.  Great sound.  More to come.


I did. I was pleasantly surprised too because I had them when they first came out and they were awful. The firmware update did fix a lot of things. I like the soundstage and the punchy bass. For the price we got them for, I would say they are a keeper.


----------



## C_Lindbergh

miserybeforethemusic said:


> The IEM version of the Crystal is supposed to be the Xelastec. Crystal are the TWS tips. Shouldn't need to wait.


The material of the Crystal isn't exactly the same as xelastec. 

There's a "standard" version of the crystals, they're supposed to be available in July according to the customer support mail I received. 

https://www.azla.co.kr/product/crystal-standard/


----------



## miserybeforethemusic (Jun 25, 2021)

C_Lindbergh said:


> The material of the Crystal isn't exactly the same as xelastec.
> 
> There's a "standard" version of the crystals, they're supposed to be available in July according to the customer support mail I received.
> 
> https://www.azla.co.kr/product/crystal-standard/


Figured you were looking for the closest match, but wasn't aware there was a standard variant coming down the lane. Honestly, I think Azla slays it across the board with their tips. They're pretty consistently my favorite from IEM to IEM, so really curious to see how these work out.

Thanks for the share!

Also think it's kinda cool that Azla is open in admitting they ship FedEx only and seems like, at least right now, they're taking 50% off those shipping costs. Gotta apprecaite that. Looks like they just released another Crystal variant, this time for the Galaxy Buds Pro:





https://www.azla.co.kr/product/crystal-for-galaxy-buds-pro/


----------



## nekonhime

Have anyone try the status audio between pro tws?


----------



## SilverEars (Jun 25, 2021)

So, I got the Earfun Air Pro in today, and it didn't take long to determine these arn't the sound for me.  I was initially interested in these due to high ranking for call quality with Rtings, and the measurements looked intriguing at first.  And then I quickly realized these are too analytical for my taste.  Upon closer inspection of the measurement, the response is tilted toward the treble similar to M&D responses (But, not as bad).  And the mids sounds too lean causing a V-shaped response.  Bass isn't too pronounced, and seems more sub-bass presence than mid-bass. On the loose side, could use some tightening (at least for my taste). More impact would have been more satisfying as well.   Still, I just cannot stand the treble, it's like Galaxybuds+ or M&D treble response.  Wispy sounding, sibilent treble. Highs sound clear and crisp (too much so), but sounds too lean. Mids are a bit lacking.  I can't handle such hot treble that causes ear ringing.  It's not good for my hearing.

ANC is a real joke.  'Normal mode' sounds more like noise is reduced, not 'noise reduction' mode.  It's probably a placebo mode. lol

Also, it has no provided software app.   The casing seems cheap, not all that durable feeling (thin plastic cover).  Good pocketable size. The earphone fit is pretty good.

For $80, it isn't bad, especially for those looking for something with a bit of treble.  Just don't expect thinking you'd get any ANC with these.  I feel like ANC is a real scam with these.  The box says 38dB of noise reduction with ANC.  They should be nailed for false advertising.

Also, I realized Edifier makes these.  The casing says, 'Tuned by Edifier'


----------



## erockg

Very tough call here. Just got the Beats Studio Buds and they do blow away the Earin A-3. Very much prefer the in the ear passive isolation over the open ear style. The pass-through on the Beats is wonderful. No, they are not audiophile  quality but they do sound pretty damn good. They are tiny. ANC is not as strong as the AirPods Pro but it’s still doable in combination with the passive isolation. No wireless charging case and you cannot share audio like you can with the AirPods.


----------



## Tommy C (Jun 25, 2021)

samandhi said:


> Hmmm. Interesting: https://www.behringer.com/product.html?modelCode=P0EI0 and https://www.behringer.com/product.html?modelCode=P0F6R Not up to snuff compared to the other stuff, but they are absolutely cheap as seen HERE. Looks like the T-buds haven't been released yet?!


Not to be a Negative Nancy but these are most likely gonna be a cheap chi-fi rebranded to Behringer who are also not really known for their headphones or whatnot.  They put out cheap stuff and I have demoed a pair of headphones that were cheaply made and meh and a pair of speakers that were less average.


----------



## samandhi (Jun 25, 2021)

Tommy C said:


> Not to be a Negative Nancy but these are most likely gonna be a cheap chi-fi rebranded to Behringer who are also not really known for their headphones or whatnot.  They put out cheap stuff and I have demoed a pair of headphones that were cheaply made and meh and a pair of speakers that were less average.


You be a negative Nancy all you want! I put the link here just for that; discussion. I have never heard of Behringer making headphones/IEMs until now, so I have no idea. I have one of their mixing boards, and love it, but that is a whole different avenue.

In the meantime, I have a feeling you could be right, if their newest ones (the T-Buds) are only $39, and have ANC, and passthrough, and Aptx, they could be something like one of the $10 ones you can find under "no name"... lol

Edit:So does that mean I should call you Nancy then?


----------



## VICosPhi

SilverEars said:


> So, I got the Earfun Air Pro in today, and it didn't take long to determine these arn't the sound for me.  I was initially interested in these due to high ranking for call quality with Rtings, and the measurements looked intriguing at first.  And then I quickly realized these are too analytical for my taste.  Upon closer inspection of the measurement, the response is tilted toward the treble similar to M&D responses (But, not as bad).  And the mids sounds too lean causing a V-shaped response.  Bass isn't too pronounced, and seems more sub-bass presence than mid-bass. On the loose side, could use some tightening (at least for my taste). More impact would have been more satisfying as well.   Still, I just cannot stand the treble, it's like Galaxybuds+ or M&D treble response.  Wispy sounding, sibilent treble. Highs sound clear and crisp (too much so), but sounds too lean. Mids are a bit lacking.  I can't handle such hot treble that causes ear ringing.  It's not good for my hearing.
> 
> ANC is a real joke.  'Normal mode' sounds more like noise is reduced, not 'noise reduction' mode.  It's probably a placebo mode. lol
> 
> ...


I just got the Edifier version of these solely due to rtings rating these above many TWS for call quality. Hoping it lives up to the call quality aspect. Edifier version supposedly has an app but it is very limited. Still use my trusty MTW2 for music but wanted something for calls as nobody makes good mono BT headsets anymore since Plantronics was acquired by Poly. Jabra talk 55 is a joke with a 3 hours battery life...


----------



## dweaver

nekonhime said:


> Have anyone try the status audio between pro tws?


Couple people have them, some like them and some are not as impressed. I have a pair on order and should have them by mid July so will be posting impressions then.


----------



## gwompki

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Figured you were looking for the closest match, but wasn't aware there was a standard variant coming down the lane. Honestly, I think Azla slays it across the board with their tips. They're pretty consistently my favorite from IEM to IEM, so really curious to see how these work out.
> 
> Thanks for the share!
> 
> ...


I'm interested to try some Azla tips.  I thought I read a few pages back that the Azla TWS crystal would not fit in the Devialet Gemini case.  Any recommendations for the Geminis?


----------



## Fat Larry

Hi guys, i'm new to wanting a wireless solution for when i'm on the go. Can i request some info and recommendations on what would be a good option for a wireless adapter like the TRN BT20.

Last time i looked at Bluetooth was years back and there was a compromise in SQ, is that still the case or have we moved on?

I think i would probably like something that was a necklace style rather than placing the batteries behind the ear as i'm not sure i'd want wear much weight there. Is there any bang for $, 2 pin or mmcx adapter that would suit?


----------



## cattboy (Jun 26, 2021)

What IEM would you for recommend paired with a Fiio LCBT2 or Shanling MW200 Neckband?  Browsing these forum endlessly to see what people have paired with theirs, are those neckbands strong enough for Shure SE535 PRO?  I apologize, I'm still wrapping my head around impedance and how much is requred to properly run an IEM (all new to me, first IEM's, weee!)



Long story but I like to be detailed as I learned everything via googling and reading forums like this one from you folks writing all your stuff down! (and soundguys, rtings, whathifi, etc)   Compiled notes:

*My goal*
Fully wireless GAMING / Windows 10 / PC Support, earbuds/IEM (I love headphones but not for extended hours, F.U. headphone hair), sorry but audio quality will have to take a backseat until Bluetooth codecs mature and offer high  kbit/s / kHz / etc  (looking at you LHDC-LL).

aptX-LL or LHDC-LL are the bluetooth codecs that offer the least (noticeable) audio delay.  LHDC doesn't offer any transmitters unless paired to a phone, aptX-LL it is.  aptX-Adaptive is double the latency of aptX-LL, basically the same of aptX and its noticeable, so no.


*My Research*
https://www.rtings.com/headphones/tests/connectivity/non-bluetooth-wireless




RF Transmitter is a 2ndary option, but don't offer any IEM/earbuds (that I've found).  The only combo I could find was the Sennheiser’s flex 5000, plugging in IEM to the RF dongle, but its ~60ms





Fiio LCBT2 or Shanling MW200 are my only choices with decent battery life per charge and a wide array of Bluetooth Codecs (I'll lean towards aptX-LL or HD depending on tasks).  The 2nd option for Earbuds would be EPOS GTW 270 Hybrid but clock in at just under 6 hours of battery life before charge, too short for me.

Looked into USB-DACs, transmitting the audio via USB to a DAC and transmitting to BT, but the delay would be too large. e.g. Shanling UP5

I was hoping the WF-XM4's offered aptX-LL or LHDC as they have GREAT ANC (Sony has mastered IMHO), but alas... Maybe XM5 they pickup Qualcomm again.


*My current setup*
Windows 10 -> aptX codec
Sony WH-1000XM3 -> aptX codec Love these headphones for the ANC, (travel, etc) but the aptX codec's latency is noticeable


*IDEA setup*
Fiio LCB2 -> aptx-LL (Or Shanling MW200, or anything else you folks think of  )
Creative Bluetooth Transmitter -> aptx-LL
Comply Foam Tips -> Found thanks to these forums, find the tips that fit you!

*IEMs to pair with Neckband??? *This is the part I'm not sure...  I mean if I bought these IEM's I'm sure I'd use them for music as well, but the main focus is to be paired with my PC(s)
SE535 PRO -> Overkill? Probably... Will they work with LCB2? IDK :/

Recommendations?

I've seen an endless debate on MMCX vs 2 pin connections.  Not sure which way is the way I'll go.

Thank you!


----------



## C_Lindbergh (Jun 26, 2021)

This is third time the Melomania touch blows me away!

have no idea how Cambridge Audio managed to squeeze out this kind of sound quality in a pair of 129 EUR true wireless earbuds. 

The bass sounds so excellent without mudding out the mids/high, overall also lovely warm sound that doesn't leave me fatigue.

I really hope CA will release a new version, despite all technical issues the first version had.

För the  next version I'd like to see;

ANC
BT 5.2 +LC3
More premium case (hopefully a bit slimmer case as well).
More options in the app
Better optimized touch controls 
Wear sensors


----------



## helmutcheese

*SoundPeats Sonic Pro review:*

https://blog.ear-phone-review.com/entry/SoundPEATS_Sonic_Pro#Overview-of-SoundPEATS-Sonic-Pro


----------



## Sebulr

Fat Larry said:


> Hi guys, i'm new to wanting a wireless solution for when i'm on the go. Can i request some info and recommendations on what would be a good option for a wireless adapter like the TRN BT20.
> 
> Last time i looked at Bluetooth was years back and there was a compromise in SQ, is that still the case or have we moved on?
> 
> I think i would probably like something that was a necklace style rather than placing the batteries behind the ear as i'm not sure i'd want wear much weight there. Is there any bang for $, 2 pin or mmcx adapter that would suit?


The KZ AZ09 are pretty good at around £25 from amazon, slightly more comfortable than the trn bt20 (i have both) and have charging case. Only snag is, they use the the KZ type C connection only, and are SBC and AAC only like the TRN. They are pretty much comparable to the TRN efforts but are cheaper, I personally can't tell the difference between AAC 128kbit/s and .wav, but I can hear a very slight hiss, noise floor in very quiet environments with both, when music is not playing.


----------



## Caipirina

and I am late to another party: I just got myself the Anker Soundcore Liberty Air 2 Pro (that's a mouthful!) because I felt I deserved a treat, it was locally available at 130$ (while for some strange reason I saw it recently on AliExpress for 197$ then down to 159$? Might have to do that I already set AliExpress to my future location) & the overall glowing reviews.

Anyways .. I am not super happy ... once again, despite offering NINE different eartips in the box .. none of those gives me a green light in the fit test ... when I use other tips that work (spinfits for example), the buds rest in the case enough to close, but apparently they don't fully rest on the charging contacts! ... How I wish in this case I lived in an Amazon country and could easily return them ... 

When they fit they are indeed nice, but of course, for those who already have the Bose QC buds, it feels kinda pointless to get anything else (hoarding much?)  ... though I am still rather happy with the belated amazon echobuds purchase.

Another question I have for those of you who have the ASLAir2Pro ... in Onyx Black ... does it still have a slight blue shimmer when held against the light? I am somewhat convinced the shop sent me the wrong color, though the box was labeled "UN Black Iteration 1" .. What that might mean?


----------



## gwompki

cattboy said:


> What IEM would you for recommend paired with a Fiio LCBT2 or Shanling MW200 Neckband?  Browsing these forum endlessly to see what people have paired with theirs, are those neckbands strong enough for Shure SE535 PRO?  I apologize, I'm still wrapping my head around impedance and how much is requred to properly run an IEM (all new to me, first IEM's, weee!)
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I cannot speak to the quality of the FIIO neckband you mentioned or how well it would work for your use case.  However, I can tell you that I am a fan of Fiio IEMs.  I own the FH5 and find them to be excellent.  I hear very good things about the lower prices FH3 as well.  I would expect any Fiio product to be a good match.  You could even write to Fiio support, explain your situation and see what they recommend.  I find them to very helpful everytime I have contacted them.


----------



## 100Pipers

Update on Devialet Gemini, from fully charged to dead (source Samsung s20 ultra, aptx, transparency on low, volume around 50 percent) 3.35 mins. Left side on 20 percent when right at zero. The ANC works really well to cancel out the louder screechie type noises on the tube.


----------



## tinyman392

cattboy said:


> What IEM would you for recommend paired with a Fiio LCBT2 or Shanling MW200 Neckband?  Browsing these forum endlessly to see what people have paired with theirs, are those neckbands strong enough for Shure SE535 PRO?  I apologize, I'm still wrapping my head around impedance and how much is requred to properly run an IEM (all new to me, first IEM's, weee!)
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I have the LCBT2. It’s a very nice well-featured neckband. The Shure headphones will work with it. The 2-pin variant needs a flush 2-pin IEM (no recessed sockets). I’ve never been a fan of using BT for anything time related (gaming isn’t a huge pro for BT).


----------



## cattboy

tinyman392 said:


> I have the LCBT2. It’s a very nice well-featured neckband. The Shure headphones will work with it. The 2-pin variant needs a flush 2-pin IEM (no recessed sockets). I’ve never been a fan of using BT for anything time related (gaming isn’t a huge pro for BT).


Thanks for your feedback and comments.

Hopfully aptX-LL @ ~32-40 ms latency will be less noticeable than my current aptX codec... Or I've got a new set of IEMs for music heh.

After turning to Bluetooth, the freedom it gives being fully wireless is just too good,  so long 3.5mm plugged in days


----------



## krenzler

Hello fellow TWS fans. I've been enjoying my Airpods Pros for some time now but the new toy itch is there and I would like to try something else/new. I'm an iPhone user and really like the fit/comfort and ease of use with the APP's. Also I actually think they sound pretty good with nice midrange clarity and not too overbearing bass. But I do know they can be bettered for SQ. 

These I'm contemplating:

Sony WF-1000XM4
Sennheiser Momentum True Wireless 2
Bowers & Wilkins Pi7
Technics EAH-AZ70W
 Bose QuietComfort Earbuds
KEF MU3

The Sony seem the best allrounder to me with excellent app, battery, ANC and EQ. I worry about the tuning perhaps being too warm and bassy (and can the EQ fix that?) and the fit/comfort/discomfort of the foam tips. Some say they sound amazing and others that the bass overpowers a very relaxed treble. 

B&W Pi7 seems to be the current darling when it comes to outright sound quality alone. But they are pricey, have short battery life, reports of BT disconnectivity issues (?) and amazingly no transparency mode toggle on the buds themselves. They need to be a big step up from the rest SQ-wise to ignore these caveats.

Senn MTW2 is an old favourite and perhaps still tops when it comes to the sound? Close to the Bowers and Wilkins? How's the fit - they look a bit bulky.

Technics I'm intrigued and they seem a bit overlooked. Current pricing where I live is only half of what the new Sony cost. They do look bulky but supposedly sound very good and with very capable ANC to boot? How do these stack up?

Bose QC mostly for their class leading ANC and should be very comfortable despite how big they are. Not sure about the battery life and SQ. 

The KEF I know nothing about except I have KEF speakers I really like and these do look quite sweet.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

krenzler said:


> Technics I'm intrigued and they seem a bit overlooked. Current pricing where I live is only half of what the new Sony cost. They do look bulky but supposedly sound very good and with very capable ANC to boot? How do these stack up?


Great ANC, but fit can be weird for some. Regular users shouldn't encounter the issues some of us have seen with parasitic drain on the battery. Probably my favorite sound signature for live and acoustic material.

Can't speak on the rest, though the FITS get taken out more than anything else at this point. If not those, then the Falcon Pro.

Sorry I've been absent lately. This Etymotic Evo is stealing the spotlight at the moment. Can't use it with the CF01 due to lack of adapters, though. Regardless, _that_ is a pair that would make for a killer TWS sound. For now, there are a couple T2-compatible BT neckband-style adapters (Null Audio and UE sell one) if you're willing to give it a shot. No concerns about ANC because their passive isolation is just plain better.


----------



## bladefd

cattboy said:


> What IEM would you for recommend paired with a Fiio LCBT2 or Shanling MW200 Neckband?  Browsing these forum endlessly to see what people have paired with theirs, are those neckbands strong enough for Shure SE535 PRO?  I apologize, I'm still wrapping my head around impedance and how much is requred to properly run an IEM (all new to me, first IEM's, weee!)
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Honestly, BT is probably not the best for gaming where every ms matters. It becomes too noticeable for that purpose unlike listening to music or calling someone. 30-40ms is not easily noticeable if you are talking with someone on the phone. Although, it does become noticeable for movies and YouTube videos so it does matter for phone usage as well unless if you don't watch movies or YouTube on your phone (I don't).

I think ultimately, 2.4ghz wireless is the best for pc gaming. The problem is that most of them don't have great sound quality yet for whatever reason. They can transmit a lot more data over usb so I'm bit perplexed that they are still a bit behind when it comes to audio quality compared to Bluetooth. I would think it would be the exact opposite with Bluetooth lagging behind 2.4ghz, but it doesn't seem to be the case. There also doesn't seem to be any pc-designed earbuds that run on 2.4ghz frequency, which also is bit baffling. I guess it is possible that there just happens to be more innovation in the Bluetooth sector for whatever reason (perhaps ease, more money to be made, competition driving up innovation, etc).. It's a bit disappointing if you ask me.


----------



## VICosPhi (Jun 26, 2021)

Got the Edifier TWS NB2 Pro and the material/crafsmanship is excellent on these. The case feels more premium than Sony XM4 case. ANC works well too. These are bass cannons however. Bloated big bass is all I hear which overshadows the treble completely. Mids are excellent however. Phone call quality is top notch, best of any TWS I have tried so far so thanks rtings. Case is not very deep so most custom tips don't let the case close properly (Tried ePro EP01). I will be using these exclusively for phone calls due to their mic quality and 7 hours battery life.

Senny MTW2s just can't be beat in sound quality and overall look/comfort(subjective) and app + customization features.


----------



## jant71

Anyone buying the NiceHCK HB2? 



At least it comes with more than one different connector and has decent control scheme. One step forward with BT5.2 and touch control but a step back with no case and charging cable design. For me, at $79, it should have a case that charges them.


----------



## Mouseman

jant71 said:


> Anyone buying the NiceHCK HB2?
> At least it comes with more than one different connector and has decent control scheme. One step forward with BT5.2 and touch control but a step back with no case and charging cable design. For me, at $79, it should have a case that charges them.


That's nice that it appears to come with all the connectors. Looks a lot like the BT20s, with the modular  connectors (although those look to have a more robust plug - these have 2 pins and I'd worry about durability).


----------



## regancipher

SilverEars said:


> So, I got the Earfun Air Pro in today, and it didn't take long to determine these arn't the sound for me.  I was initially interested in these due to high ranking for call quality with Rtings, and the measurements looked intriguing at first.  And then I quickly realized these are too analytical for my taste.  Upon closer inspection of the measurement, the response is tilted toward the treble similar to M&D responses (But, not as bad).  And the mids sounds too lean causing a V-shaped response.  Bass isn't too pronounced, and seems more sub-bass presence than mid-bass. On the loose side, could use some tightening (at least for my taste). More impact would have been more satisfying as well.   Still, I just cannot stand the treble, it's like Galaxybuds+ or M&D treble response.  Wispy sounding, sibilent treble. Highs sound clear and crisp (too much so), but sounds too lean. Mids are a bit lacking.  I can't handle such hot treble that causes ear ringing.  It's not good for my hearing.
> 
> ANC is a real joke.  'Normal mode' sounds more like noise is reduced, not 'noise reduction' mode.  It's probably a placebo mode. lol
> 
> ...


Yeah the ANC is really weak, and the sound is nowhere near the high end buds, but bear in mind they're a year old now. A year is a long time in TWS years! I just sold my 1More Comfobuds Pro for about $60, everything about them is better and they're not even using one of the newer bt 5.2 chips


----------



## chinmie (Jun 26, 2021)

Mouseman said:


> That's nice that it appears to come with all the connectors. Looks a lot like the BT20s, with the modular  connectors (although those look to have a more robust plug - these have 2 pins and I'd worry about durability).



this one has reversed connector type, going it with male 2pin instead of the BT20S Pro's female 2pin connection..so can't use one brand on the other.
the benefit of the BT20S version is that i can detatch the connector and just use it on regular 2pin cables. 
i can't comment on their real durability, but judging just by the photo, i feel the BT20S Pro version would be more durable at the connection


----------



## tinyman392

jant71 said:


> Anyone buying the NiceHCK HB2?
> At least it comes with more than one different connector and has decent control scheme. One step forward with BT5.2 and touch control but a step back with no case and charging cable design. For me, at $79, it should have a case that charges them.


Ooh, it has a recessed 2-pin adapter available. That’s something I haven’t seen available yet. I might have to try it out.

Edit: if I’m not mistaken both the UTWS3 and BT20 Pro use a flush 2-pin connector for their 2-pin variants/adapters.


----------



## Mouseman

chinmie said:


> this one has reversed connector type, going it with male 2pin instead of the BT20S Pro's female 2pin connection..so can't use one brand on the other.
> the benefit of the BT20S version is that i can detatch the connector and just use it on regular 2pin cables.
> i can't comment on their real durability, but judging just by the photo, i feel the BT20S Pro version would be more durable at the connection


I missed stating "Pro", which is what I was talking about. Its connectors are shielded 2 pin female, the pins are recessed inside the housing and I think are less prone to damage.
I agree with the OP, the lack of a charging case is a pretty major omission, particularly at that price. The TRN case is very good. I also have the KZ adapters, and they have a better case but no swappable connectors. But they're still very nice.  
I wonder who will have the first adapter with LDAC? That would be a heck of a unit with decent battery life due to the extra space.


----------



## TK33

Have to give Samsung credit...Galaxy Buds Live started acting up about a week or two ago and the case stopped staying open by itself so I logged into my Samsung account to find out I still have a few months left on my warranty (got them when they first came out).  Created a ticket and the system automatically generates a prepaid UPS 2 day shipping label for me.  Looks like they processed and shipped out a replacement within 2 days of receiving the one I shipped back.  The replacement is on its way to me now.  The whole process was probably the most painless warranty exchange I have done and cost me nothing unlike some other companies (B&W I am looking at you).


----------



## nekonhime

Just for.my curiosity, Have anyone here try the enophone headphone? Of yes then can you please give your impressions about the headphone?


----------



## krenzler

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Great ANC, but fit can be weird for some. Regular users shouldn't encounter the issues some of us have seen with parasitic drain on the battery.


Could this be why they are discounted 50% in many places? Hadn't heard about the drain issue so thanks for the warning.

Do we still generally agree that the Sennys are a step up in sound quality compared to the new XM4? And how does MTW2 stack up against Pi7 on sound alone?


----------



## Thesonofkrypton (Jun 27, 2021)

We have been having some blustery weather recently and I got to give it to Sony on their wind reduction tech in the XM4, so so good! I particularly like how I turn it on in the app and it reverts back to standard ANC when I'm indoors later, not sure if that's some smart detection or just reverts to ANC only on next use.

Been listening to some of Ruelle's albums and the soundstage with the XM4 is epic as is the sub bass. I don't remember seeing a successor being so damn near perfect an upgrade to the previous model.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

krenzler said:


> Could this be why they are discounted 50% in many places? Hadn't heard about the drain issue so thanks for the warning.
> 
> Do we still generally agree that the Sennys are a step up in sound quality compared to the new XM4? And how does MTW2 stack up against Pi7 on sound alone?


I think they're just not moving as much as Panasonic/Technics would have hoped. I got my pair when the price went down to about $150 and they're 100% worth it at that price.

The drain problem will really only affect you if you're using these infrequently; if they're your daily driver, you'd never notice. In my case (pun half-intended), I only realize it's a thing if I leave them alone for more than a week in between charges.


----------



## nekonhime

Thesonofkrypton said:


> We have been having some blustery weather recently and I got to give it to Sony on their wind reduction tech in the XM4, so so good! I particularly like how I turn it on in the app and it reverts back to standard ANC when I'm indoors later, not sure if that's some smart detection or just reverts to ANC only on next use.
> 
> Been listening to some of Ruelle's albums and the soundstage with the XM4 is epic as is the sub bass. I don't remember seeing a successor being so damn near perfect an upgrade to the previous model.


Idk, but it seem to me the sound profile of the xm3 is a better fit for me than then xm4, but the anc and the tech of the xm4 is much better than the xm3, so I will return the xm4 and buy it again when it on sale


----------



## VICosPhi

B&W PI7 vs Wf1000XM4


----------



## C_Lindbergh

Another distinct difference I noticed between the XM4 and CA MT is that the MT got a wax guard made of metal, its so much easier to clean compared to the Sony.


----------



## krenzler

My attention has been drawn to the MW08. It's very heavy at nearly 10g a piece - how does it feel in the ear at brisk walking pace? Does it flap about due to the weight distribution? The materials, battery life and rapported SQ all seem solid. I know the older models had some connectivity issues but hopefully fixed by now?


----------



## gwompki

Spinfit 360s on the Devialet Gemini has been a great improvement in terms of comfort and in ear stability.  Highly recommend over the stock tips.


----------



## Juturna

It's honestly not getting easier to choose my next pair... I keep eliminating potential "candidates" and then bringing them back in the running again after a few days. But I think I'm down to just the Sennheiser MTW2's and the Sony WF-1000XM4's now. Eliminated PI7 due to price and the fact that for that price I don't think I could accept other than perfection, and i'm not getting it from the PI7's, even if the sound is top notch. 

I'm starting to lean Sony now even though I think I would prefer the sound on the Sennheisers.


----------



## nekonhime

Juturna said:


> It's honestly not getting easier to choose my next pair... I keep eliminating potential "candidates" and then bringing them back in the running again after a few days. But I think I'm down to just the Sennheiser MTW2's and the Sony WF-1000XM4's now. Eliminated PI7 due to price and the fact that for that price I don't think I could accept other than perfection, and i'm not getting it from the PI7's, even if the sound is top notch.
> 
> I'm starting to lean Sony now even though I think I would prefer the sound on the Sennheisers.


I will take the sony over Sennheiser


----------



## bladefd (Jun 27, 2021)

Juturna said:


> It's honestly not getting easier to choose my next pair... I keep eliminating potential "candidates" and then bringing them back in the running again after a few days. But I think I'm down to just the Sennheiser MTW2's and the Sony WF-1000XM4's now. Eliminated PI7 due to price and the fact that for that price I don't think I could accept other than perfection, and i'm not getting it from the PI7's, even if the sound is top notch.
> 
> I'm starting to lean Sony now even though I think I would prefer the sound on the Sennheisers.


Your best bet is to try a few of them. Amazon has good return policy. Make a list of several earbuds from what you like the most about it overall to least. Start at the top and work your way down. I tried 4 of them before ending up with the Melomania Touch.


----------



## jasonb

bladefd said:


> Your best bet is to try a few of them. Amazon has good return policy. Make a list of several earbuds from what you like the most about it overall to least. Start at the top and work your way down. I tried 4 of them before ending up with the Melomania Touch.



I really hope I like the Melomania Touch. I should have mine tomorrow or the next day. Hopefully with some minor EQ within the app I'll love them.


----------



## VICosPhi

Juturna said:


> It's honestly not getting easier to choose my next pair... I keep eliminating potential "candidates" and then bringing them back in the running again after a few days. But I think I'm down to just the Sennheiser MTW2's and the Sony WF-1000XM4's now. Eliminated PI7 due to price and the fact that for that price I don't think I could accept other than perfection, and i'm not getting it from the PI7's, even if the sound is top notch.
> 
> I'm starting to lean Sony now even though I think I would prefer the sound on the Sennheisers.


I returned my Sonys as Sennys have more refined sound and comfort is better, which is more important to me than battery life and ANC that Sony wins on.


----------



## Devodonaldson

I've  had my Noble falcon pro for about 3 months. Had my xm4 since they came out. With an eartip change (both using epro tips) and a boost in the mids at 2.5k, and 2db increase in the upper frequencies, I definitely prefer the overall sound on the xm4 more. Bass is more refined, and overall presentation is smoother, even wirh the boost in those freq. Just feels more musical, while the falcon Pro feels more separated/not blending as well over the freq spectrum. I just prefer the warmer Sony sound


----------



## nekonhime

Devodonaldson said:


> I've  had my Noble falcon pro for about 3 months. Had my xm4 since they came out. With an eartip change (both using epro tips) and a boost in the mids at 2.5k, and 2db increase in the upper frequencies, I definitely prefer the overall sound on the xm4 more. Bass is more refined, and overall presentation is smoother, even wirh the boost in those freq. Just feels more musical, while the falcon Pro feels more separated/not blending as well over the freq spectrum. I just prefer the warmer Sony sound.


Can you tell me the name of the ear tips you are using with the xm4?


----------



## Devodonaldson

nekonhime said:


> Can you tell me the name of the ear tips you are using with the xm4?


I'm currently using epro ep01 (Amazon). JVC Spriral dots also work well. Both have wider bores for more treble to come through


----------



## clerkpalmer

jasonb said:


> I really hope I like the Melomania Touch. I should have mine tomorrow or the next day. Hopefully with some minor EQ within the app I'll love them.


Assuming your expectations are reasonable for 130 tws, you will love them. I doubt anything touched them in the sub 150 price bracket although I’m intrigued by the beats.


----------



## senorbroom

Galaxy Buds 2 coming soon: https://www.theverge.com/2021/6/27/22552705/samsung-galaxy-buds-2-leaked-renders-four-colors


----------



## nekonhime

Devodonaldson said:


> I'm currently using epro ep01 (Amazon). JVC Spriral dots also work well. Both have wider bores for more treble to come through


Do you mind if I ask for your eq map?


----------



## jasonb (Jun 27, 2021)

clerkpalmer said:


> Assuming your expectations are reasonable for 130 tws, you will love them. I doubt anything touched them in the sub 150 price bracket although I’m intrigued by the beats.


It seems Melomania Touch priority is sound quality, and I've heard and read reviews saying the sound quality punches above it's price. From how people are describing them, I should like them. Otherwise my next try will be the WF-1000XM4, but I know I'll have to EQ them cause they are dark.


----------



## clerkpalmer

jasonb said:


> It seems Melomania Touch priority is sound quality, and I've heard and read reviews saying the sound quality punches above it's price. From how people are describing them, I should like them. Otherwise my next try will be the WF-1000XM4, but I know I'll have to EQ them cause they are dark.


I prefer the Sony but the difference is not 2x. The MT aren’t far behind. Some folks here like them better than the Sony. The Sony is tighter all around and more resolving. The EQ thing is a non issue.


----------



## jasonb

clerkpalmer said:


> I prefer the Sony but the difference is not 2x. The MT aren’t far behind. Some folks here like them better than the Sony. The Sony is tighter all around and more resolving. The EQ thing is a non issue.



I'm thinking I'm going to like and would probably prefer the MT's. I had the XM3's and found them to not be bright enough and too bassy, and the XM4's look to be even darker.


----------



## PixelSquish

The MTW2 is better than the XM4 sound-wise by a little bit but if you switch the XM4 to wide bore silicon tips and do a slight EQ, they will both sound excellent in a similar slightly warm and fun manner while still being high quality buds.

I don't have the MT anymore to compare but when I did, they were my favorite over the MTW2 and I look forward to CA's next iteration of those.


----------



## DigDub

krenzler said:


> My attention has been drawn to the MW08. It's very heavy at nearly 10g a piece - how does it feel in the ear at brisk walking pace? Does it flap about due to the weight distribution? The materials, battery life and rapported SQ all seem solid. I know the older models had some connectivity issues but hopefully fixed by now?


The inner part of the buds is nestled inside the ear and is very comfortable, so it's quite a stable fit. The connection strength is one of the strongest I've used, it remains connected where other buds have intermittent connection. The mids is just stunningly natural on the mw08, the highs are are crisp without being over bright like the previous version. The bass places more emphasis on mid bass and has a warm signature, the large 11mm also let's the listener "feel" the bass as its diaphragm vibrates. Probably what needs to be improved is an eq in the app.


----------



## Devodonaldson

nekonhime said:


> Do you mind if I ask for your eq map?


2.5k +5 the frequencies above that I use +2. I also have clear bass +2. The ambient mode or ANC also increases the bass. If you set it off, there is less low end punch


----------



## Tommy C

Did anyone compare the Melomania 1+ and Touch? Are they supposed to be sort of the same sq just in a different form factor? Was looking at the CA website but information is pretty limited regarding the two and how they compare to one another


----------



## AudioNoob

APTX question, in all the APTX buds I've tried, I get audible distortion above 13k. If I force the phone to use AAC through developer options, it goes away. It also presents at frequncies above the earphone's representation capabilities. Try the test here on a device that supports APTX and let me know what you think. Any ideas? Is it just psychoacoustic compression?
https://www.audiocheck.net/audiotests_frequencycheckhigh.php


----------



## Fat Larry

Can anyone answer my question or link me to something definitive on where BT sound quality is these days? Are the new protocols on par with a good low impedance cable yet?


----------



## nekonhime

Fat Larry said:


> Can anyone answer my question or link me to something definitive on where BT sound quality is these days? Are the new protocols on par with a good low impedance cable yet?


The BT sound will depend on the source, latency, the type of codec you use ( sound from laptop will be much better than sound from phone), but it will be 70-85% amount of sound you find in cable. For your second question, the answer is no not yet


----------



## gwompki

Fat Larry said:


> Can anyone answer my question or link me to something definitive on where BT sound quality is these days? Are the new protocols on par with a good low impedance cable yet?


I think this is potentially a very touchy subject (ie Tidal lossless vs Spotify 320kbps).  On paper, no BT is not there yet.  Even LDAC can't do true CD quality.  But it's really close.  However, in practice, you can get pretty amazing sound quality from BT using other codecs.  It's largely up to the tuning of the driver and implementation of the chipset.  For me I am willing to forego the BEST quality for convenience for certain use cases.  

(Full disclosure if I stated anything incorrectly apologies in advance, not trying to start a debate 😁)


----------



## Fat Larry (Jun 28, 2021)

gwompki said:


> I think this is potentially a very touchy subject (ie Tidal lossless vs Spotify 320kbps).  On paper, no BT is not there yet.  Even LDAC can't do true CD quality.  But it's really close.  However, in practice, you can get pretty amazing sound quality from BT using other codecs.  It's largely up to the tuning of the driver and implementation of the chipset.  For me I am willing to forego the BEST quality for convenience for certain use cases.
> 
> (Full disclosure if I stated anything incorrectly apologies in advance, not trying to start a debate 😁)


Thanks, didn't know it's a touchy subject 


nekonhime said:


> The BT sound will depend on the source, latency, the type of codec you use ( sound from laptop will be much better than sound from phone), but it will be 70-85% amount of sound you find in cable. For your second question, the answer is no not yet


Thank you. When you say amount do you mean quality? Or are you referring to volume?


----------



## gdv brisbane

Fat Larry said:


> Thank you. When you say amount do you mean quality? Or are you referring to volume?


I pair the TRN BT20S Pro with the Moondrop Aria and they're a killer combination. 

Volume levels feel very similar - the Arias are easily driven by both the BT20S Pro and by the wired iPhone lightning dongle - no need to go above say 60% on either.  

If there's a degradation in sound quality, it's not one that I can perceive (true blind ABX testing at home is impossible given the time lag between swapping the wired cable for the BT connectors). Bottom line for me is that any tiny reduction in sound quality is more than outweighed by the wire-free ease of use.


----------



## Juturna (Jun 28, 2021)

Just got a pair of SoundPeats T2 that I ordered last wednesday to tide me over while I make my decision on where I want to spend my money and it's pretty crazy how much you can get for that amount of money, even if they aren't as good as more expensive sets of TW earbuds.
Paid around $35 with shipping and these buds actually have decent ANC and would probably sound good to most people who aren't sound/earbud enthusiasts. I mean, they actually sound good to me as well, I'm impressed for the price but if someone told me they cost $200 I would probably be hesitant to call it good, or I would at least say that I would expect more for the money.

Unfortunately the biggest issue for me is the tips/the fit. The earbuds are pretty big and the tips are pretty shallow so it doesn't reach that deep into the ear canal with the stock tips because the earbud itself is so big that it can't be pushed too deep into the ear. Tried using a set of Comply Foam TrueGrip or whatever they're called and it really opened up the sound and made the treble sound sound less recessed (in a good way),but they're also just a liiittle too short. Tried the Sony WF-1000XM3's stock tips in Large and there we have it - perfect fit - but the sound took a bit of a nosedive and started sounding pretty bloated so I went back to the Comply's. The passive noise isolation+ ANC with the Sony eartips honestly wasn't that much weaker than the Sony XM3s themselves and that's a good score for a cheap earbud.

The case is also pretty small, just a tad thicker than an Airpods Pro case, otherwise comparable in size, probably has less height to it as well.

So for people who just love the best sound possible, they probably won't be for you, but for your friends or your parents who just want the convenience with some pretty good sound and decent ANC, I would honestly recommend them SO FAR. I'm just a few hours into testing so I might change my mind, but i've tried earbuds for probably 4-5x the money that sounded comparable or even worse to my ears so it's pretty cool to see what you can get.


----------



## Juturna (Jun 28, 2021)

I found a set of Sennheiser MTW2 for $200 new and sealed, but I might have a chance at grabbing the WF-1000XM4 for around $220 if I wait a bit... none of them can be returned in any way after purchase though since Amazon is the only store that offers returns like that where i'm at.

I feel like the Sennys won't have quite enough bass to satisfy the part of me that likes heavy electronic music and really enjoys some heavy bass rumbles from time to time, and I feel like the Sony's won't satisfy the part of me that wants a huge sound with big soundstage and some really nice sparkle in the upper mids and highs for more ambient and atmospheric music... Can somebody create a Sonyheiser Momentum WF-1000TW2-Frankenstein hybrid for me?


----------



## nekonhime

Fat Larry said:


> Thanks, didn't know it's a touchy subject
> 
> Thank you. When you say amount do you mean quality? Or are you referring to volume?


Both


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

Fat Larry said:


> Thank you. When you say amount do you mean quality? Or are you referring to volume?


This might help:

https://www.soundguys.com/understanding-bluetooth-codecs-15352/

Things get hairy once you realize that a poor implementation of a top-tier codec will cripple the overall performance. It's pretty generally understood, though, that SBC has the lowest signal quality overall. Bass and treble are cut off early, resolution is poor when compared even to AAC, but it's almost ubiquitous in terms of compatibility and is extremely power-efficient.

Even AAC is capable of achieving redbook (16/44) over BT, but seems like not everybody's good at implementing that codec and real-world performance can vary pretty wildly. For iOS users, it's a pretty robust and high-quality codec. Android users have a hit-or-miss experience.

LDAC seems to be the most "figured out" of the hi-res codecs right now. I tend to use it to send my phone's signal to a Shanling M0, which I then plug my wired IEMs into. Sounds fantastic, but there still seems to be no way to set "Best Quality (990kbps)" as a default (it's always "Best Effort," or the scalable option). However, it's a massive battery drain in comparison; I'm lucky to get about 4 hours out of the M0 when running it as a LDAC receiver. This is probably indicative of why those who have LDAC TWS don't get great battery life; it's a pretty power-hungry codec.

Finally, my experience with aptX Adaptive hasn't been very pleasant. Things don't always connect when they should, they certainly don't re-connect very easily. I sometimes get artifacting distortion on high-bitrate material with both the Edifier TWS1 Pro and Noble Falcon Pro. Subsequent Android updates have helped with that, but I do tend to just run on regular aptX to avoid having to deal with the hassle.

Volume, on the other hand, seems to be a factor of however the TWS are programmed, not so much what codec you're using. The JBL Club Pro+ are notoriously quiet in stock form and some of us have resorted to creating an EQ preset that's a flat +3dB gain to have more usable volume, but the Noble Falcon Pro have such a powerful amp that I usually have to set the preamp gain to -9dB to have a usable volume range.


----------



## TheOnlyDocc (Jun 28, 2021)

miserybeforethemusic said:


> @TheOnlyDocc didn't you receive a pair of the Earfun Air Pro recently?


Yes i received a pair. They are not bad at all. But what i do not like about them is, that you do not have volume control via the buds directly. And that is a absolut no go for me! I do not know if you read it, but the Air Pro are made by Edifier (Edifier TWSNB2) and tuned by Earfun. The main difference between them is the tuning and that the Edifier TWS come with a controll app for your phone. At the moment i use the EarFun Free Pro as daily driver. If the missing volume control is a also a no go for you check out the Free Pro.


----------



## scubaphish

Juturna said:


> I found a set of Sennheiser MTW2 for $200 new and sealed, but I might have a chance at grabbing the WF-1000XM4 for around $220 if I wait a bit... none of them can be returned in any way after purchase though since Amazon is the only store that offers returns like that where i'm at.
> 
> I feel like the Sennys won't have quite enough bass to satisfy the part of me that likes heavy electronic music and really enjoys some heavy bass rumbles from time to time, and I feel like the Sony's won't satisfy the part of me that wants a huge sound with big soundstage and some really nice sparkle in the upper mids and highs for more ambient and atmospheric music... Can somebody create a Sonyheiser Momentum WF-1000TW2-Frankenstein hybrid for me?


FYI Sennheiser is selling recertified MTW2 for 189 on eBay. And they’re returnable


----------



## TK33

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Finally, my experience with aptX Adaptive hasn't been very pleasant. Things don't always connect when they should, they certainly don't re-connect very easily. I sometimes get artifacting distortion on high-bitrate material with both the Edifier TWS1 Pro and Noble Falcon Pro. Subsequent Android updates have helped with that, but I do tend to just run on regular aptX to avoid having to deal with the hassle.


Is this just with your OnePlus 8T or other phones?  I agree with you that implementation matters and also seems very inconsistent.  The connection quality of the B&W PI7s with the OnePlus 8T is much better than my LG V60 but I get weird artifacts (sounds like something is stuck in a fan).  I don't get any such artifacts on my V60 when using aptX adaptive with the PI7s but the connection is terrible and inconsistent.  I really wish there were a way to force aptX HD instead since I don't need the low latency.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

TK33 said:


> Is this just with your OnePlus 8T or other phones?  I agree with you that implementation matters and also seems very inconsistent.  The connection quality of the B&W PI7s with the OnePlus 8T is much better than my LG V60 but I get weird artifacts (sounds like something is stuck in a fan).  I don't get any such artifacts on my V60 when using aptX adaptive with the PI7s but the connection is terrible and inconsistent.  I really wish there were a way to force aptX HD instead since I don't need the low latency.


The 8T is my only Adaptive-capable device, so that's the one I'm referencing. Have a feeling it has to do with the CPU choice; maybe these late-gen Snapdragon processors need some work.


----------



## DRuM

Just wanted to say that if anyone is looking for perfect AV sync while watching live tv and streaming media on their smart tv, the Mpow M30 works perfectly, along with an Amazon Firestick. Watching live tv on my LG, the lipsync is perfect. 

However,  if I watch YouTube, Netflix or BBC iPlayer using the tv's built in smart apps,  or stream those apps from my phone to the tv, BT sync is hit and miss and the sound is mostly ever so slightly behind the picture. I was recommended to buy an Amazon Firestick since the buds can bluetooth direct to it, and there's an AV sync adjuster on it. 

Well I'm so impressed. I'm getting absolutely flawless sync on the stick, like literally no latency whatsoever,  and haven't even needed to use the adjuster. It takes a second to switch BT connection between the firestick and the tv, depending on if I want to stream media or watch live tv. 

I also get perfect sync pairing the buds directly to my android phone and the phone lets me switch to the SBC codec. Can't get perfect sync on my laptop though as apparently the firestick won't work.  But still, I'm delighted with the result for my tv.


----------



## SilverEars

gwompki said:


> I think this is potentially a very touchy subject (ie Tidal lossless vs Spotify 320kbps).  On paper, no BT is not there yet.  Even LDAC can't do true CD quality.  But it's really close.  However, in practice, you can get pretty amazing sound quality from BT using other codecs.  It's largely up to the tuning of the driver and implementation of the chipset.  For me I am willing to forego the BEST quality for convenience for certain use cases.
> 
> (Full disclosure if I stated anything incorrectly apologies in advance, not trying to start a debate 😁)


XM4 needs to clean up the sound.  At that level of crappy audio quality LDAC makes no difference.


----------



## TK33

miserybeforethemusic said:


> The 8T is my only Adaptive-capable device, so that's the one I'm referencing. Have a feeling it has to do with the CPU choice; maybe these late-gen Snapdragon processors need some work.


Perhaps but I think both the One Plus 8T and the V60 use the Snapdragon 865 chip but seem to have different types of issues. Happened on two different OnePlus 8T phones (I just got a warranty replacement due to calls constantly dropping/not coming in) so I think it may have to do with the design/implementation of the phone itself. Anyway, I do agree with you regarding not having the best experience with aptX adaptive so far.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

TK33 said:


> Perhaps but I think both the One Plus 8T and the V60 use the Snapdragon 865 chip but seem to have different types of issues. Happened on two different OnePlus 8T phones (I just got a warranty replacement due to calls constantly dropping/not coming in) so I think it may have to do with the design/implementation of the phone itself. Anyway, I do agree with you regarding not having the best experience with aptX adaptive so far.


Yeah, it's pretty frustrating. Taught me to not get so wrapped up in the codec wars, though I am changing my tune regarding the _quality _of LDAC after having some really good luck using it on the Shanling M0 with wired IEMs. Just have to fix that battery life...


----------



## AudioNoob

AudioNoob said:


> APTX question, in all the APTX buds I've tried, I get audible distortion above 13k. If I force the phone to use AAC through developer options, it goes away. It also presents at frequncies above the earphone's representation capabilities. Try the test here on a device that supports APTX and let me know what you think. Any ideas? Is it just psychoacoustic compression?
> https://www.audiocheck.net/audiotests_frequencycheckhigh.php


Anybody willing to entertain this test with aptx. Shouldn't take much time.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

AudioNoob said:


> Anybody willing to entertain this test with aptx. Shouldn't take much time.


I use aptX pretty frequently, but in two meetings at once here. I'll do my best to get on and run the test later today for ya


----------



## clerkpalmer

SilverEars said:


> XM4 needs to clean up the sound.  At that level of crappy audio quality LDAC makes no difference.


So you’re saying you don’t like them? Lol.


----------



## Juturna

scubaphish said:


> FYI Sennheiser is selling recertified MTW2 for 189 on eBay. And they’re returnable


I don't feel like ordering from overseas when it comes to more expensive products like that, it's a hassle if something happens to it. I just put the $ price for convenience instead of the local currency where i'm at. But this is basically like that deal only... not returnable. I actually know that Sennheiser has a b-stock shop that you can order from through a website but honestly the website looks so sketchy that I'm actually very hesitant to order anything from there lmao


----------



## Bobbetybob

Feeling the itch for something new, currently looking at the Lypertek Pureplay Z3 2.0, Noble Falcon 2 and Melomania Touch because they're all similarly priced but they all seem to have some downsides. 

I've not really seen many opinions on the Lypertek's, sounds like they might be quite dark sounding? The Falcon 2 there's also not tons of info on so I'm not even sure what the sound signature is. The Melomania Touch sound like they'd be the best sounding but the connectivity issues are offputting. Any thoughts from anyone who's heard any of them?


----------



## davidcotton

AirPod pro still a decent bet for iPhone and iPad use?  Got the xm3 but switching between the two is a bit of a faff?


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

Bobbetybob said:


> Feeling the itch for something new, currently looking at the Lypertek Pureplay Z3 2.0, Noble Falcon 2 and Melomania Touch because they're all similarly priced but they all seem to have some downsides.
> 
> I've not really seen many opinions on the Lypertek's, sounds like they might be quite dark sounding? The Falcon 2 there's also not tons of info on so I'm not even sure what the sound signature is. The Melomania Touch sound like they'd be the best sounding but the connectivity issues are offputting. Any thoughts from anyone who's heard any of them?


The Falcon 2 are just Falcon 1 with an upgraded BT chipset and case (according to specs and the info on Noble's site). I really do enjoy the Falcon 1, more so than I mention here. Great 1-DD model.

Can't speak on the Lypertek, but what you decide between the other two is a matter of personal taste. I'd say take a look at the kind of bass you want and that should direct you between the MT or the Falcon. MT is a much wetter, more saturated bass that blooms (but pleasantly) into the mids. Think boom more than thwack. If you want thwack, I suggest the Noble instead. Treble on the MT is also considerably more rolled off than the Falcon, but I find each works well given your mood and preferred genre. The Falcon 1 would get my suggestion for a better all-rounder with more stability, even if I do love the MT's signature; I'd rather have the Falcon's stability if I were only able to have one pair.


----------



## Peddler

The Lypertek's have an excellent sound quality and now have a genuinely useful app to go with them. I'm still using the original Tevi's (these are actually the same model).  They are loud, waterproof, have excellent battery, decent EQ controls, have a nice size case and no bells and whistles - just really good quality pure sound.

Oh, BTW - they also offer full control - including volume.


----------



## Vulpix0r

Has anyone tried out the Beats Studio Buds? Reviews have been dripping here and there the past few days, was curious if anyone has anything positive to say as well? It seems reviews floating around mentioned it's actually pretty good.


----------



## samandhi (Jun 28, 2021)

jasonb said:


> I really hope I like the Melomania Touch. I should have mine tomorrow or the next day. Hopefully with some minor EQ within the app I'll love them.





jasonb said:


> It seems Melomania Touch priority is sound quality, and I've heard and read reviews saying the sound quality punches above it's price. From how people are describing them, I should like them. Otherwise my next try will be the WF-1000XM4, but I know I'll have to EQ them cause they are dark.


The MT are not totally dark per se'. They have a much boosted bass, but it does not impede the mids at all. It is very addicting, in that it is very large, but also very tight and fast (almost planar(ish)). Mids are only a bit recessed, and I would call them almost airy up top, having plenty of sparkle. I hate overdone bass, but have found (since the last FW update) that I don't need (nor desire) any EQ with these. If you do, their app is so simple (and actually really effective) to use.

You are right, they prioritize sound over most everything else. They seemed to have gotten rid of most of the bugs, but the touch controls are very sensitive, and fitment can be a real issue, depending on your ear size, and make-up. Hear-through mode works fairly well, but since the last FW update, I hear a bit of telephony quality to the sounds now. It is plenty loud though. It is my opinion that they indeed do punch above their price point, by some margin IMO.


----------



## krenzler (Jun 29, 2021)

So what BT buds have what you would call a neutral reference kind of sound? And by that I don't mean lean or bass light just not bass boosted or V-shaped that so many seem to aim for. My Airpods Pros I feel have a relatively balanced sound signature with a slight focus on the mids and a balanced bass (assuming they fit your ears). Only talking frequency response here and I'm sure they can be bettered on technicalities like detail retrieval and dynamics etc. I know it also depends on what the reference is - for Harman Target for instance it will probably be some of those models (Samsung, AKG) owned by Harman group (?).

Are Lypertek considered neutral? MTW2? Technics? What about the KEF MU3? Bose QC Buds?


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

krenzler said:


> So what BT buds have what you would call a neutral reference kind of sound? And by that I don't mean lean or bass light just not bass boosted or V-shaped that so many seem to aim for. My Airpods Pros I feel have a relatively balanced sound signature with a slight focus on the mids and a balanced bass (assuming they fit your ears). Only talking frequency response here and I'm sure they can be bettered on technicalities like detail retrieval and dynamics etc. I know it also depends on what the reference is - for Harman Target for instance it will probably be some of those models (Samsung, AKG) owned by Harman group (?).
> 
> Are Lypertek considered neutral? MTW2? Technics? What about the KEF MU3?


The Technics are close, but there's a little bit of a Hi-Fi tune for excitement that you can hear on certain tracks, so I wouldn't call it a true neutral.

If you believe the MTW2 and CX400BT have the same signature, it's boosted bass and mids with an early treble roll-off. If you listen in stereo only, it gives you a great diffuse field, but to me sounds way off when you only have one ear in. I blame it on psychoacoustic tricks to simulate a larger stage size.

My honest pick would be the UEs. Spend some extra time working on the seal when you first get them, but I think those are really where it's at.


----------



## webvan

Robius said:


> Damn they look hot.


Found a review here https://www.notebookcheck.net/Xiaom...ireless-in-ears-under-200-Euros.548150.0.html
Still for China only at this point it seems.


----------



## Slater91

Bobbetybob said:


> Feeling the itch for something new, currently looking at the Lypertek Pureplay Z3 2.0, Noble Falcon 2 and Melomania Touch because they're all similarly priced but they all seem to have some downsides.
> 
> I've not really seen many opinions on the Lypertek's, sounds like they might be quite dark sounding? The Falcon 2 there's also not tons of info on so I'm not even sure what the sound signature is. The Melomania Touch sound like they'd be the best sounding but the connectivity issues are offputting. Any thoughts from anyone who's heard any of them?


The Lypertek PurePlay Z3 2.0 are actually not dark. I'd say they follow (roughly) the Harman target curve with a bit of added bass and a bit less upper midrange emphasis. Sure, that means they're quite darker than the first model, the Tevi, but it's still not in my definition of "dark" - they're quite enjoyable. From a technical standpoint, they have _amazing_ detail for the price and very good instrument separation. I would say they almost compare  to similarly-priced wired earphones in terms of pure sound quality, which really is surprising.


krenzler said:


> So what BT buds have what you would call a neutral reference kind of sound? And by that I don't mean lean or bass light just not bass boosted or V-shaped that so many seem to aim for. My Airpods Pros I feel have a relatively balanced sound signature with a slight focus on the mids and a balanced bass (assuming they fit your ears). Only talking frequency response here and I'm sure they can be bettered on technicalities like detail retrieval and dynamics etc. I know it also depends on what the reference is - for Harman Target for instance it will probably be some of those models (Samsung, AKG) owned by Harman group (?).
> 
> Are Lypertek considered neutral? MTW2? Technics? What about the KEF MU3? Bose QC Buds?


I really, really liked the Shanling MTW300. They're amazing for the price. They're not perfectly neutral, but they surely are not bass boosted or V-shaped. Considering the first-gen Lypertek Tevi is on its way out, I'd say the MTW300 are the best pick in the currently-available devices.


----------



## Juturna

I know everybody has different tastes, but what is the definitive best sounding true wireless earbud to you? I’m asking everybody in the thread because I’m damn curious.


----------



## Typo2

https://neobudspro.com/

Just seen these advertised on Instagram from Edifier, another ANC dual driver Lhdc pair from a relatively known brand. Will almost definitely take a punt on these to try them.


----------



## C_Lindbergh (Jun 29, 2021)

Juturna said:


> I know everybody has different tastes, but what is the definitive best sounding true wireless earbud to you? I’m asking everybody in the thread because I’m damn curious.


For me it's the Cambridge Audio Melomania touch (out of all TWS I've tested), they even sound better than earbuds costing twice as much.


----------



## Typo2

Juturna said:


> I know everybody has different tastes, but what is the definitive best sounding true wireless earbud to you? I’m asking everybody in the thread because I’m damn curious.


Top 3 I've tried are master and dynamic mw08 / kef mu3 / oppo Enco X (with default eq changed as it sucks oob) - they are all pretty close to me but oppo won me over for form factor and Lhdc/anc.... I returned the mw08 and kept the kef but I never use them. There are some really good non ANC sounding TWS like the Cambridge audio MT - I just want it all. Curious about the new sonys and b&w buds but they look kind of large.


----------



## Thesonofkrypton

Juturna said:


> I found a set of Sennheiser MTW2 for $200 new and sealed, but I might have a chance at grabbing the WF-1000XM4 for around $220 if I wait a bit... none of them can be returned in any way after purchase though since Amazon is the only store that offers returns like that where i'm at.
> 
> I feel like the Sennys won't have quite enough bass to satisfy the part of me that likes heavy electronic music and really enjoys some heavy bass rumbles from time to time, and I feel like the Sony's won't satisfy the part of me that wants a huge sound with big soundstage and some really nice sparkle in the upper mids and highs for more ambient and atmospheric music... Can somebody create a Sonyheiser Momentum WF-1000TW2-Frankenstein hybrid for me?



If you like electronic / dance, the XM4 are fantastic for that. Was listening to some old Massive Attack, Prodigy, Banks and Marian Hill. 😗👌 quite on par with my wired ZN earphones which I love for EDM on the go.


----------



## DRuM (Jun 29, 2021)

I was thinking of buying a second pair of Mpow M30 so I can switch between each pair when the battery needs charging, as the battery life is only about 4 to 5 hours.

However,  I want more weight and authority with the bass. The overall sound on the M30 is excellent and detailed with nice enough bass, but the bass isn't on the same level as my wired ibasso buds. So I'm considering Soundpeats Sonic, Soundpeats T2, Edifier TWS1 Pro which all have longer battery life, particularly the Sonic with 12+ hours. 

Can anyone recommend which of those would have the nicest sound, weighty and punchy bass, good comfort,  don't fall out and have SBC codec? SBC gives me great AV sync so I'm not sure if any buds without SBC would give me more latency.


----------



## Juturna

Thesonofkrypton said:


> If you like electronic / dance, the XM4 are fantastic for that. Was listening to some old Massive Attack, Prodigy, Banks and Marian Hill. 😗👌 quite on par with my wired ZN earphones which I love for EDM on the go.


I mean, I do! But I also listen to a lot of other music that I feel like the Sony’s might not be the right earbuds for. 
Im leaning less and less towards buying the Sony’s. I really want their functions but I don’t think the sound is for me despite it all based on what I’ve read. I probably wouldn’t dislike it, but I probably wouldn’t love it.


----------



## Devodonaldson

Juturna said:


> I mean, I do! But I also listen to a lot of other music that I feel like the Sony’s might not be the right earbuds for.
> Im leaning less and less towards buying the Sony’s. I really want their functions but I don’t think the sound is for me despite it all based on what I’ve read. I probably wouldn’t dislike it, but I probably wouldn’t love it.


I listen to classical, pop, country, hip hop, jazz, alternative, R&B. I have lypertek tevi, Samsung Galaxy Buds Pro, Noble Falcon Pro, and xm4. I prefer mx4, just on sound quality. Falcon hits harder for bass (mid bass boom) and has more sparkly treble (hybrid setup), but for me xm4 will a little eq adjustment is smooth, cohesive, and still gives enough treble presence to my ears. It has a better overall flow to me than the Noble tws. I liked it with stock tips and no eq, but a boost at 2.5 and a 2db increase in the other upper frequencies,  with silicon tips (epro ep01) gave me that overall sound I was hoping for, and it comes together well. The Noble felt more separated in its different frequencies as if there was a cutoff point for each driver/armature. That is my opinion. Very happy


----------



## samandhi

krenzler said:


> So what BT buds have what you would call a neutral reference kind of sound? And by that I don't mean lean or bass light just not bass boosted or V-shaped that so many seem to aim for. My Airpods Pros I feel have a relatively balanced sound signature with a slight focus on the mids and a balanced bass (assuming they fit your ears). Only talking frequency response here and I'm sure they can be bettered on technicalities like detail retrieval and dynamics etc. I know it also depends on what the reference is - for Harman Target for instance it will probably be some of those models (Samsung, AKG) owned by Harman group (?).
> 
> Are Lypertek considered neutral? MTW2? Technics? What about the KEF MU3? Bose QC Buds?


For me, it is the Nuarl N6 Pro. They are even advertised as neutral sounding (which they actually are). They have some of the best detail retrieval that I have heard in a TWS.


----------



## Juturna

Devodonaldson said:


> I listen to classical, pop, country, hip hop, jazz, alternative, R&B. I have lypertek tevi, Samsung Galaxy Buds Pro, Noble Falcon Pro, and xm4. I prefer mx4, just on sound quality. Falcon hits harder for bass (mid bass boom) and has more sparkly treble (hybrid setup), but for me xm4 will a little eq adjustment is smooth, cohesive, and still gives enough treble presence to my ears. It has a better overall flow to me than the Noble tws. I liked it with stock tips and no eq, but a boost at 2.5 and a 2db increase in the other upper frequencies,  with silicon tips (epro ep01) gave me that overall sound I was hoping for, and it comes together well. The Noble felt more separated in its different frequencies as if there was a cutoff point for each driver/armature. That is my opinion. Very happy


Interesting. I just don't like the XM3's sound signature and I know that the XM4 probably sounds better, but the XM3 in hindsight was pretty damn bad to me. It's very energetic but I feel like if I wear eartips that actually make them sit properly it's just a bloated mess with no soundstage, no separation and pretty low on details everywhere across the range. No "sparkle" in the treble either, just very smooth which can of course be a good thing, I just think it sounds "meh" no matter how I EQ the XM3's, but it could absolutely be a case of not getting a good fit.


----------



## Thesonofkrypton

Juturna said:


> I mean, I do! But I also listen to a lot of other music that I feel like the Sony’s might not be the right earbuds for.
> Im leaning less and less towards buying the Sony’s. I really want their functions but I don’t think the sound is for me despite it all based on what I’ve read. I probably wouldn’t dislike it, but I probably wouldn’t love it.



No problem. Loads of choice out there these days for us consumers which is great, but also at the same time confusing to say the least.  For a while, I feel like I have the endgame wired earphones set up and recently wireless with the XM4, but everyone's tastes and ears and hearing are all different, so get what you find engaging!  Hunting is part of the fun, but glad I'm out of it, too much time and money required to switch and swap and with some people it's an endless hunt as they'll never be satisfied lol;


----------



## DigDub

Walked into a local store and was surprised to find they have the xm4 in stock. They don't sound dark to me at all even with the stock tips. I use accoustune aet07 tips with them and they sound pretty nice, crisp highs and highly resolving. I'd even say they are quite neutralish sounding. One thing I notice is that in the app, EQ off and a flat manual EQ sounds different. EQ off sounds better and more dynamic.







Compared to the M&D mw08, the mw08 sounds darker and has a more mid bass centric boomy sound signature. The mw08 has all controls on the buds, but with the Sony, a choice has to be made between NC/ambient mode or volume control.


----------



## tiagopinto

Juturna said:


> I know everybody has different tastes, but what is the definitive best sounding true wireless earbud to you? I’m asking everybody in the thread because I’m damn curious.



I tried a few before settling. The Sony are too bass bloated. The Bose are a bit bland. The MTW2 are very nice but had battery issues. 
It’s not to say these aren’t ok for their other features but... just not for me. They all are above my “reasonable” price range. 

I hated XM3 sound, Bose are ok but my main goal is not ANC or calls. I won’t deal with battery issues. I tried a few others but the package was under par. I’d like to try the mu3, the mw08 and the NFP but I mostly want to listen to music and not overtly focus on the medium by itself. Also need funds to cater for other hobbies. 

My take is, this is a VERY fast evolving niche, new and better tech is coming soon (BTLEA/LC3), I’m ALWAYS looking for SQ mostly but do enjoy other features. I wanted ANC and Qi but didn’t get it. I got transparency, good battery, comfortable secure fit and amazing sound... for 130€. I searched for the better package, the best implementation, the best price/quality compromise. I got the above par option. 

True, I had a few issues with connectivity at first, but these have been long solved. The sound even improved. I’m happy.

(maybe I’ll invest when this evolves a bit more. For now, I own over-ears, IEM’s and TWS which I am enjoying)

I got the Cambridge Audio Melomania Touch!


----------



## tiagopinto

C_Lindbergh said:


> For me it's the Cambridge Audio Melomania touch (out of all TWS I've tested), they even sound better than earbuds costing twice as much.



I could’ve been succinct like this gentleman here, with whom I totally agree


----------



## jant71

tiagopinto said:


> I tried a few before settling. The Sony are too bass bloated. The Bose are a bit bland. The MTW2 are very nice but had battery issues.
> It’s not to say these aren’t ok for their other features but... just not for me. They all are above my “reasonable” price range.
> 
> I hated XM3 sound, Bose are ok but my main goal is not ANC or calls. I won’t deal with battery issues. I tried a few others but the package was under par. I’d like to try the mu3, the mw08 and the NFP but I mostly want to listen to music and not overtly focus on the medium by itself. Also need funds to cater for other hobbies.
> ...



I wanna see a comparo Touch vs. the Sabbat E16. They are both about the same things good shape/fit and SQ. Sabbat does have Qi and both have 7 hours battery and only do up to aptX. One is IPX4 and the other IPX5. Both seem solid but not the best on the connection stability.


----------



## Juturna

tiagopinto said:


> I tried a few before settling. The Sony are too bass bloated. The Bose are a bit bland. The MTW2 are very nice but had battery issues.
> It’s not to say these aren’t ok for their other features but... just not for me. They all are above my “reasonable” price range.
> 
> I hated XM3 sound, Bose are ok but my main goal is not ANC or calls. I won’t deal with battery issues. I tried a few others but the package was under par. I’d like to try the mu3, the mw08 and the NFP but I mostly want to listen to music and not overtly focus on the medium by itself. Also need funds to cater for other hobbies.
> ...


What battery issues did you have with the MTW2? 
Also, what's your take on the sound quality on the Melomania Touch vs the MTW2? They used to be on my shortlist of earbuds I wanted to check out but I think it's a difficult product to get into because on paper there's nothing that stands out to me, no insane specs, a kinda bland design, lacking in some features... but the sound is supposed to be amazing. But when you can't try it first it gets tougher to make that purchase.


----------



## Juturna

Thesonofkrypton said:


> No problem. Loads of choice out there these days for us consumers which is great, but also at the same time confusing to say the least.  For a while, I feel like I have the endgame wired earphones set up and recently wireless with the XM4, but everyone's tastes and ears and hearing are all different, so get what you find engaging!  Hunting is part of the fun, but glad I'm out of it, too much time and money required to switch and swap and with some people it's an endless hunt as they'll never be satisfied lol;


Haha the thing is that I don't really find it fun right now, only stressful lmao. 
Without getting into my life story I'm not exactly financially stable and won't be for awhile, but I have more money to spend right now than I will the rest of the year and probably next... so I want to make the best purchase possible, and since I don't have the opportunity to test out earbuds and return them if I dislike them I just spend way too many hours each day reading and watching peoples opinions and comparisons, and hopefully hearing somebody echo the opinions that I have so I feel like I can make a more educated guess on if I will like a set of earbuds. So finding new earbuds and reading about them is super fun, but this sort of "endgame chasing" that i'm doing right now isn't too fun. When I make a decision I second guess it and then i'm back to square one. 

I can buy a cheaper pair of earbuds and be moderately pleased with it, like i'm super pleased with the SoundPeats T2 I just got in the mail yesterday, but i'm pleased FOR THE PRICE. They're not endgame material however, and I bought them as a cheap but competent backup pair to whatever I decide on buying, but I get EXTREMELY picky and uncertain when i'm buying something expensive. I narrowed down a list of maybe 10 earbuds and now i'm down to mostly two, but there isn't one option that strikes me as "the one". If Sennheiser had released the MTW3 with updated sound quality or even the same quality but also packed a smaller more convenient case, better ANC and qi-charging i'd be running down to the store and buying them right away.


----------



## clerkpalmer

Typo2 said:


> https://neobudspro.com/
> 
> Just seen these advertised on Instagram from Edifier, another ANC dual driver Lhdc pair from a relatively known brand. Will almost definitely take a punt on these to try them.


Love that the LDAC train is rolling now. Took long enough.


----------



## bizkid

New Sennheiser CX TWS (130$)


----------



## AudioNoob

AudioNoob said:


> APTX question, in all the APTX buds I've tried, I get audible distortion above 13k. If I force the phone to use AAC through developer options, it goes away. It also presents at frequncies above the earphone's representation capabilities. Try the test here on a device that supports APTX and let me know what you think. Any ideas? Is it just psychoacoustic compression?
> https://www.audiocheck.net/audiotests_frequencycheckhigh.php


Can I be annoying and bring this up again? You can also try on spotify


----------



## jant71 (Jun 29, 2021)

clerkpalmer said:


> Love that the LDAC train is rolling now. Took long enough.


Actually those are LHDC.  That train is rolling as well and has some interesting members like Senn, 1More, AT, FiiO, Edifier, HiFiman, and Dunu.

Though Edifier claiming they are the first Hi-Res certified ANC wireless? XM4 anyone? China companies and their claims lol!

From the wiki: On 2 September 2018 the Hi-Res Wireless Audio (HWA) Union was formed to promote LHDC adoption.[8] Also known as the HWA Alliance. The HWA Union Board of Directors includes:



AKM
China Electronics Technology Group Corporation
Cirrus Logic
Edifier
Guoguang Electric
HiFiMAN
HiVi
Huawei
Institute of Acoustics of the Chinese Academy of Sciences
Savitech
iriver
Sennheiser
Taihe Music Group

Other HWA Union members include:



ams AG
Astell&Kern
Audio-Technica
Aukey
Cayin
Cozoy
Coolhere
Colorfly
DA&T
DA-ART
DUNU
FiiO
Fostex
Haylou
HiBy
infly
iEAST
Liesheng
Musiland
NFJ FX-AUDIO
OC Studio
Onkyo
Pioneer
ProStereo
QCY
Questyle Audio
Quloos (QLS HiFi)
Radius
Shanling
S.M.S.L
TASCAM
TEAC
TempTec
Tecsun
TiinLab
Topping
Tube Fan Audio
VMN
xDuoo
YULONG Audio
1MORE


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

bizkid said:


> New Sennheiser CX TWS (130$)



A bass-boosted Sennheiser TWS? Didn't think it needed it.


----------



## jant71

miserybeforethemusic said:


> A bass-boosted Sennheiser TWS? Didn't think it needed it.


For the Flossy Carter's of the world. White Shoes likes dat bass!!


----------



## C_Lindbergh (Jun 29, 2021)

Bah, shame the new Sennheisers doesn't have transparent hearing, I'm looking forward to their next iteration of the MTW! Maybe they can borrow some more audio-tech from their newest wired IEMs.

Personally I think that Sennheiser got the best app when it comes to features, even topping the new sony's.

*Fully customizable controls
* Option to adjust transparent hearing along with option to pause music when enabled
* Connection tab were you can connect or remove previous paired devices.

I'm not a fan of the MTW2's case tho, hopefully they make it the same shape as the CX-line up as well as getting rid of the awful cloth material.


----------



## tiagopinto

Juturna said:


> What battery issues did you have with the MTW2?
> Also, what's your take on the sound quality on the Melomania Touch vs the MTW2? They used to be on my shortlist of earbuds I wanted to check out but I think it's a difficult product to get into because on paper there's nothing that stands out to me, no insane specs, a kinda bland design, lacking in some features... but the sound is supposed to be amazing. But when you can't try it first it gets tougher to make that purchase.



I didn’t end up owning them. I tried a burned-in pair, liked the sound. From memory they had a good soundstage and imaging. I believe they were around 250€ when I tested them. I read the case had battery draining issues and I wasn’t up for it. 

I went the MT route and I’m happy with them at half the price of the others. 

I know it’s hard to try them at stores (impossible in Portugal) and I don’t like the purchase and return process so I risked it. At first I wasn’t so happy with the connectivity issues they had... but that’s gone. Even the sound improved with firmware and any EQ corrections were no longer even needed.


----------



## samandhi

jant71 said:


> Actually those are LHDC.  That train is rolling as well and has some interesting members like Senn, 1More, AT, FiiO, Edifier, HiFiman, and Dunu.
> 
> Though Edifier claiming they are the first Hi-Res certified ANC wireless? XM4 anyone? China companies and their claims lol!
> 
> ...


That train has been halted for a time. There is not good way to use the codec. There are, like four apps that contain the codec (because it hasn't been implemented into the android system except on a couple phones), but they are VERY spotty, or crappy, or don't even work at best. I would love to give it a try, because I have some Hifiman Deva that have the ability to use that codec, but....


----------



## jant71

samandhi said:


> That train has been halted for a time. There is not good way to use the codec. There are, like four apps that contain the codec (because it hasn't been implemented into the android system except on a couple phones), but they are VERY spotty, or crappy, or don't even work at best. I would love to give it a try, because I have some Hifiman Deva that have the ability to use that codec, but....


Yep, one is rolling like an old old steam locomotive and the other like an NYC transit local with track work going on.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

jant71 said:


> For the Flossy Carter's of the world. White Shoes likes dat bass!!


Maximum bass, maximum highs, minimum mids. Wouldn't it be ironic if White Shoes only listened to fusion jazz...


C_Lindbergh said:


> Bah, shame the new Sennheisers doesn't have transparent hearing, I'm looking forward to their next iteration of the MTW! Maybe they can borrow some more audio-tech from their newest wired IEMs.


Or perhaps the ability to use Left/Right independently. If the new generation doesn't support this, count me out.


C_Lindbergh said:


> Personally I think that Sennheiser got the best app when it comes to features, even topping the new sony's.
> 
> *Fully customizable controls
> * Option to adjust transparent hearing along with option to pause music when enabled
> ...


I don't think you'd want the CX shell. Really fussy with ears; the MTW shells honestly look much more comfortable.


----------



## C_Lindbergh

miserybeforethemusic said:


> I don't think you'd want the CX shell. Really fussy with ears; the MTW shells honestly look much more comfortable.


I meant the shape of the case


----------



## PixelSquish

tiagopinto said:


> I didn’t end up owning them. I tried a burned-in pair, liked the sound. From memory they had a good soundstage and imaging. I believe they were around 250€ when I tested them. I read the case had battery draining issues and I wasn’t up for it.
> 
> I went the MT route and I’m happy with them at half the price of the others.
> 
> I know it’s hard to try them at stores (impossible in Portugal) and I don’t like the purchase and return process so I risked it. At first I wasn’t so happy with the connectivity issues they had... but that’s gone. Even the sound improved with firmware and any EQ corrections were no longer even needed.


The case battery draining issue was with the original Senn MTW, not the MTW2


----------



## jasonb

Should have my Melomania Touch's here in a few hours. I'll be pairing them, updating them if need be, and hopefully be enjoying them real soon. I have really high hopes.


----------



## bladefd

jant71 said:


> For the Flossy Carter's of the world. White Shoes likes dat bass!!


I don't understand why people like the heavy bassy sound tbh. It gives me a headache if the bass is too powerful. Perhaps it has to do with the genre people listen to - rap and heavy metal very often gets extremely bass heavy. I don't listen to much rap or heavy metal personally. Often you can't even hear the lyrics when it gets very bass heavy, but some people still enjoy that.


----------



## samandhi

jant71 said:


> Yep, one is rolling like an old old steam locomotive and the other like an NYC transit local with track work going on.


LOL



jasonb said:


> Should have my Melomania Touch's here in a few hours. I'll be pairing them, updating them if need be, and hopefully be enjoying them real soon. I have really high hopes.


Let us know your impressions on them when you do?!


----------



## samandhi

bladefd said:


> I don't understand why people like the heavy bassy sound tbh. It gives me a headache if the bass is too powerful. Perhaps it has to do with the genre people listen to - rap and heavy metal very often gets extremely bass heavy. I don't listen to much rap or heavy metal personally. Often you can't even hear the lyrics when it gets very bass heavy, but some people still enjoy that.


I can see where you are coming from, but have to disagree just a tad... With the right IEMs/headphones even rap can be very enjoyable. I'm talking about a very refined type that the bass never bleeds into the mids, but is able to reach very low. Otherwise, on (improperly implemented) V shaped sound, and IMO the Harmon curve in general type phones do exactly as you suggested, and I also hate that very much.


----------



## krenzler

This thread is moving at a brisk pace! Love it. Those UE Fits are a very interesting concept - hadn’t heard about them before. Shame there’s no transparency mode though.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

C_Lindbergh said:


> I meant the shape of the case


Oh in that case, I agree! Case is a great size.


krenzler said:


> This thread is moving at a brisk pace! Love it. Those UE Fits are a very interesting concept - hadn’t heard about them before. Shame there’s no transparency mode though.


Hahaha that's the TWS thread for you. Plan for about a chapter's reading each day. Can't say we're short on content.

Yep. I wish they had HearThrough as well, but they're so simple to take out and I can hear well enough passively that it probably wouldn't be needed.


----------



## stormwrx

Interesting review of the Devialet Gemini:



I am digging the reviewer’s EQ setting, especially with the Final Audio Type E TWS tips - clarity and balance seem improved:


----------



## cattboy

samandhi said:


> That train has been halted for a time. There is not good way to use the codec. There are, like four apps that contain the codec (because it hasn't been implemented into the android system except on a couple phones), but they are VERY spotty, or crappy, or don't even work at best. I would love to give it a try, because I have some Hifiman Deva that have the ability to use that codec, but....


Plus the ONLY transmitters for that codec are mobile phones.

That I've found atleast :/


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

bladefd said:


> I don't understand why people like the heavy bassy sound tbh. It gives me a headache if the bass is too powerful. Perhaps it has to do with the genre people listen to - rap and heavy metal very often gets extremely bass heavy. I don't listen to much rap or heavy metal personally. Often you can't even hear the lyrics when it gets very bass heavy, but some people still enjoy that.


Makes more sense when you're out and about; city streets tend to drown out bass on pairs that don't isolate as well. Either that or I legitimately know people who enjoy sticking their heads into the ports of subwoofer stacks at concerts.

Those guys are crazy.


----------



## samandhi

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Makes more sense when you're out and about; city streets tend to drown out bass on pairs that don't isolate as well. Either that or I legitimately know people who enjoy sticking their heads into the ports of subwoofer stacks at concerts.
> 
> Those guys are crazy.


LOL Funny thing is I used to be that way (basically)....


----------



## X-Nemesis




----------



## bronco1015

samandhi said:


> They are well worth it (and actually more IMO). Do let us know how they sound. V-Moda was considered one of the best headphones to get for the fun side for many years. The only reason I never pulled the trigger then was because they were just too bass heavy for my tastes.


Been a while since i've been on Head-Fi except quick bursts here and there. I forgot to mention the Forza metalo were definitely worth the purchase. I knew they were not the typical V-Moda bass heavy sound, but these are even less so than the AZ70. in posts where i've seen you mention wanting more bass from the N6P, the Forza Metalo Wireless take a bit to get used to the sound, for me anyway but they are great. I bet you'd like the sound.
Also, I bought a Deva and OMG I'm pleasantly surprised. They are honestly a solid pair of headphones.


----------



## samandhi

bronco1015 said:


> Been a while since i've been on Head-Fi except quick bursts here and there. I forgot to mention the Forza metalo were definitely worth the purchase. I knew they were not the typical V-Moda bass heavy sound, but these are even less so than the AZ70. in posts where i've seen you mention wanting more bass from the N6P, the Forza Metalo Wireless take a bit to get used to the sound, for me anyway but they are great. I bet you'd like the sound.
> Also, I bought a Deva and OMG I'm pleasantly surprised. They are honestly a solid pair of headphones.


WB! And, Thanks for the rec. I will check them out. 

IKR? IMO this is BT done right, and not that much cash really if you think about what you are getting.


----------



## potix (Jul 25, 2021)

I grabbed a pair of PI7 on amazon warehouse during the last prime days, with a good 30% discount on their used/very good price, and I guess this helps me giving a non-biased judgement.
I didn't expect such a v-shape signature and boomy sound from the most premium tws, I'm not a basshead but I like some bass hint on hearphones, sometimes. All of the reviews are misleading or ambiguous in my opinion, they are like "it's a v-shape sound but there are worst cases". No, a product at this price point should be more than "better than the worst", in every aspect.
So I started (again, as I've been doing it in the last months) looking for a PI7 frequency response, and I found a comparison made by Oluv on youtube where he shows his measurements. I used it for creating an autoeq file for wavelet that I'm posting here; the compensation has been hand made in primeeq, so it isn't perfect. I'll probably keep working on it.
I was aware of how batteries, software, volume, connectivity, bt range and touch controls are also poor in PI7s, so I won't complain about it but I need to point it out one more time to people reading this post.
I am undecided whether to keep them or not, although I paid 130€ less than their price. I can barely accept hard eqing a premium product, that furthermore have other shortcomings and flaws. I am a bit "PI"$**d off .



> GraphicEQ: 20 -7.2; 21 -7.1; 22 -7.1; 23 -7.0; 24 -6.9; 26 -6.7; 27 -6.6; 29 -6.5; 30 -6.5; 32 -6.4; 34 -6.4; 36 -6.4; 38 -6.4; 40 -6.4; 43 -6.4; 45 -6.4; 48 -6.3; 50 -6.3; 53 -6.3; 56 -6.3; 59 -6.3; 63 -6.3; 66 -6.3; 70 -6.3; 74 -6.3; 78 -6.3; 83 -6.3; 87 -6.3; 92 -6.6; 97 -7.6; 103 -7.6; 109 -7.3; 115 -6.7; 121 -6.5; 128 -6.8; 136 -7.0; 143 -7.0; 151 -6.9; 160 -6.9; 169 -6.8; 178 -6.7; 188 -6.5; 199 -6.3; 210 -6.1; 222 -5.9; 235 -5.7; 248 -5.5; 262 -5.2; 277 -4.8; 292 -4.5; 309 -4.0; 326 -3.5; 345 -3.0; 364 -2.4; 385 -1.9; 406 -1.4; 429 -1.0; 453 -0.6; 479 -0.2; 506 +0.1; 534 +0.4; 565 +0.6; 596 +0.9; 630 +1.1; 665 +1.3; 703 +1.4; 743 +1.5; 784 +1.5; 829 +1.5; 875 +1.5; 924 +1.4; 977 +1.4; 1032 +1.3; 1090 +1.2; 1151 +1.2; 1216 +1.1; 1284 +1.1; 1357 +1.1; 1433 +1.0; 1514 +1.0; 1599 +1.0; 1689 +1.0; 1784 +1.0; 1885 +1.0; 1991 +1.1; 2103 +1.2; 2221 +1.2; 2347 +1.4; 2479 +1.3; 2618 +1.4; 2766 +1.2; 2921 +0.8; 3086 +0.3; 3260 -0.1; 3443 -0.1; 3637 +0.2; 3842 +0.6; 4058 +1.1; 4287 +1.5; 4528 +1.9; 4783 +2.1; 5052 +2.3; 5337 +2.9; 5637 +3.0; 5955 +1.4; 6290 -0.9; 6644 -1.7; 7018 +0.3; 7414 +2.0; 7831 +3.1; 8272 +3.6; 8738 +2.9; 9230 +1.2; 9749 -2.7; 10298 -8.6; 10878 -11.3; 11490 -13.3; 12137 -17.0; 12821 -20.0; 13543 -17.4; 14305 -14.0; 15110 -11.1; 15961 -8.8; 16860 -6.9; 17809 -5.1; 18812 -3.8; 19871 -2.5


Copy and paste in a txt file and import it in the autoeq section of wavelet; import and search for it (type the name of the txt file and wait few seconds for it to appear) then search it again with the icon at the right of "headphone model". Set a -4.5db for both buds in "Channel balance" to avoid clipping.


----------



## bronco1015

samandhi said:


> WB! And, Thanks for the rec. I will check them out.
> 
> IKR? IMO this is BT done right, and not that much cash really if you think about what you are getting.


Thanks! No prob. I totally agree. The Deva are an easy recommend, and they don't equal or exceed the cost of a morgage payment like so many other headphones do these days.


----------



## TK33

potix said:


> I grabbed a pair of PI7 on amazon warehouse during the last prime days, with a good 30% discount on their used/very good price, and I guess this helps me giving a non-biased judgement.
> I didn't expect such a v-shape signature and boomy sound from the most premium tws, I'm not a basshead but I like some bass hint on hearphones, sometimes. All of the reviews are misleading or ambiguous in my opinion, they are like "it's a v-shape sound but there are worst cases". No, a product at this price point should be more than "better than the worst", in every aspect.
> So I started (again, as I've been doing it in the last months) looking for a PI7 frequency response, and I found a comparison made by Oluv on youtube where he shows his measurements. I used it for creating an autoeq file for wavelet that I'm posting here; the compensation has been hand made in primeeq, so it isn't perfect. I'll probably keep working on it, I don't know if it causes clipping.
> I was aware of how batteries, software, volume, bt range and touch controls are also poor in PI7s, so I won't complain about it but I need to point it out one more time to people reading this post.
> ...


Are you using stock tips? They have a filter in there that makes the PI7s sound very warm (sucks out the treble).  I would not describe them as V shaped.  I am using Spinfits and like the sound much better compared to the stock tips.


----------



## jasonb

Got the Melomania Touch's from UPS and have been listening/trying different tips and EQ settings. I'm having an issue where every time I move my head or my jaw the sound changes, and this is the same with pretty much every well fitting silicone tip I have. The only thing that doesn't do this are memory foam tips. The tips I've settled on so far are actually the foam tips that came with the old Lypertek Tevi that I sold a while ago. They fit well, seal well, the sound doesn't change when I move my head or jaw, and these are short enough to fit in the charging case. I ordered another set of memory foam tips that are super short on Amazon. I have no problem using foam tips, but I just know these old Lypertek Tevi tips aren't going to last. Memory foam doesn't last, and these are already a couple years old. 

Anyway, they sound good with some EQ. I guess I'm just not a basshead as I'm still adding mids and highs and reducing the bass. I did not expect to have to EQ out this much bass, but the EQ in the app works well, so whatever. This is the EQ I've been doing so far with the foam tips. It's a nice impactful and tight bass, but just a bit too much for me for the music I listen to. The mids and highs are great though, but I just wanted a tad more.


----------



## BooleanBones

jasonb said:


> Got the Melomania Touch's from UPS and have been listening/trying different tips and EQ settings. I'm having an issue where every time I move my head or my jaw the sound changes, and this is the same with pretty much every well fitting silicone tip I have. The only thing that doesn't do this are memory foam tips. The tips I've settled on so far are actually the foam tips that came with the old Lypertek Tevi that I sold a while ago. They fit well, seal well, the sound doesn't change when I move my head or jaw, and these are short enough to fit in the charging case. I ordered another set of memory foam tips that are super short on Amazon. I have no problem using foam tips, but I just know these old Lypertek Tevi tips aren't going to last. Memory foam doesn't last, and these are already a couple years old.



I am using some Azla Crystals on mine and am really glad I swapped out the stocks as I had similar seal issues. I used some spinfit 360s as well, but like the Crystals (thanks to @miserybeforethemusic) a bit better. My only complaint so far with the MTs is that transparency mode is disabled when talking on calls. I think that is by design, but not played with that a ton. Enjoy.


----------



## jasonb (Jun 29, 2021)

BooleanBones said:


> I am using some Azla Crystals on mine and am really glad I swapped out the stocks as I had similar seal issues. I used some spinfit 360s as well, but like the Crystals (thanks to @miserybeforethemusic) a bit better. My only complaint so far with the MTs is that transparency mode is disabled when talking on calls. I think that is by design, but not played with that a ton. Enjoy.


I never talk on the phone so I probably won't care about that. If the foam tips don't end up working out I may try the azla crystals. I've used other azla tips with the WF-1000xm3 I used to have, and had good results.

So far I am liking what I'm hearing out of these Melomania Touch's so far. Very good detail, texture, and clarity for a Bluetooth IEM, that's for sure.

And the sub-bass, even with the bass EQ'ed down like I have it is still insanely fun when a song calls for it.


----------



## turbobb

AudioNoob said:


> Can I be annoying and bring this up again? You can also try on spotify



Confirmed this with SoundPeats TrueAir2; no distortion with AAC exactly as you said.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

AudioNoob said:


> Can I be annoying and bring this up again? You can also try on spotify



Sorry I'm late on this. Just confirmed with a set of CX400BT. Audible distortion at about 12k with aptX, none with AAC.

Maybe it's a gain thing?


jasonb said:


> I never talk on the phone so I probably won't care about that. If the foam tips don't end up working out I may try the azla crystals. I've used other azla tips with the WF-1000xm3 I used to have, and had good results.
> 
> So far I am liking what I'm hearing out of these Melomania Touch's so far. Very good detail, texture, and clarity for a Bluetooth IEM, that's for sure.
> 
> And the sub-bass, even with the bass EQ'ed down like I have it is still insanely fun when a song calls for it.


Sounds like my learning curve when I started. Are you trying to go as deep in as a traditional IEM? These like a shallower fit, where it just sits on the opening of your ear canal (at least in my experience). The hook does the rest of the work for me.

I like the Crystals with them, too. 50/50 with those and the Final TWS, but I think the tackier silicone of the Crystal will be a better option for your fit issues. Not much of a sonic difference between the two.


----------



## krenzler

stormwrx said:


> Interesting review of the Devialet Gemini:



Thanks, that really is an excellent thorough look at the Geminis. Others could learn from this - looking forward to his XM4 review.


----------



## bladefd

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Sorry I'm late on this. Just confirmed with a set of CX400BT. Audible distortion at about 12k with aptX, none with AAC.
> 
> Maybe it's a gain thing?
> 
> ...


Which one between Crystal and Final tws do you find more compatible with a bigger variety of TWS? I have been thinking about buying new silicone eartips for several months now. I think I'm going to try either of those 2.


----------



## AudioNoob

@miserybeforethemusic @turbobb Thanks for checking. Yeah I don't know what to make of it and how it relates to actual music reproduction.


----------



## BlazdiqFoods

LoryWiv said:


> I am definitely not knowledgeable enough to offer a thorough list, BUT am excited for the upcoming Soundpeats H1 hybrid with Qualcomm 3040 / Adaptive AptX which I believe allows AptX HD compatibility to stream 24 bit audio.


Qualcomm 3040 does not support AptX Adaptive as found from AptX website. How did Soundpeats H1 manage to get that???


----------



## cattboy

potix said:


> I grabbed a pair of PI7


Thanks.  These might be the only aptX-LL TWS that are out there.  

Battery life still avg ~4 hours for you too?


----------



## tiagopinto

PixelSquish said:


> The case battery draining issue was with the original Senn MTW, not the MTW2



Thanks for your input. Anyway, they were double the price of the MT and maybe they had that “one independent bud only” issue... can’t remember but it’s always a few things that make me back off. I did like the sound a bunch, just not enough to justify the difference.


----------



## tiagopinto

Juturna said:


> Haha the thing is that I don't really find it fun right now, only stressful lmao.
> Without getting into my life story I'm not exactly financially stable and won't be for awhile, but I have more money to spend right now than I will the rest of the year and probably next... so I want to make the best purchase possible, and since I don't have the opportunity to test out earbuds and return them if I dislike them I just spend way too many hours each day reading and watching peoples opinions and comparisons, and hopefully hearing somebody echo the opinions that I have so I feel like I can make a more educated guess on if I will like a set of earbuds. So finding new earbuds and reading about them is super fun, but this sort of "endgame chasing" that i'm doing right now isn't too fun. When I make a decision I second guess it and then i'm back to square one.
> 
> I can buy a cheaper pair of earbuds and be moderately pleased with it, like i'm super pleased with the SoundPeats T2 I just got in the mail yesterday, but i'm pleased FOR THE PRICE. They're not endgame material however, and I bought them as a cheap but competent backup pair to whatever I decide on buying, but I get EXTREMELY picky and uncertain when i'm buying something expensive. I narrowed down a list of maybe 10 earbuds and now i'm down to mostly two, but there isn't one option that strikes me as "the one". If Sennheiser had released the MTW3 with updated sound quality or even the same quality but also packed a smaller more convenient case, better ANC and qi-charging i'd be running down to the store and buying them right away.



I can totally relate to the financially stable bit but you have to admit that the TWS you buy next week may be “old news” in two months time. 

To give you an example, I offered my wife the Anker Soundcore Liberty Air 2 in the end of last year. She doesn’t give much priority to gadgets so, for the price, these ticked the boxes of what she needed. A month or two later they come out with the Liberty Air 2 Pro, now with ANC! I’m pissed off, I tell her... “ah, I’m fine, these are ok.” is the reaction I got. I’d be bonkers trying to return the first ones to get my hands on the new tech...

Maybe in a few years time it’ll all be hi-res, wi-fi, one week battery, and if you ask nicely it’ll make you a sandwich. 

Relax, try and make the chase as fun as possible. There is no endgame in TWS right now and probably not in the future.

I too am picky and strive on making the absolute best choice for the given budget. I also would be running to the store to buy the perfect MTW3 or something similar but it’s just not there yet. 

Choose wisely and happily.


----------



## tiagopinto

jasonb said:


> Got the Melomania Touch's from UPS and have been listening/trying different tips and EQ settings. I'm having an issue where every time I move my head or my jaw the sound changes, and this is the same with pretty much every well fitting silicone tip I have. The only thing that doesn't do this are memory foam tips. The tips I've settled on so far are actually the foam tips that came with the old Lypertek Tevi that I sold a while ago. They fit well, seal well, the sound doesn't change when I move my head or jaw, and these are short enough to fit in the charging case. I ordered another set of memory foam tips that are super short on Amazon. I have no problem using foam tips, but I just know these old Lypertek Tevi tips aren't going to last. Memory foam doesn't last, and these are already a couple years old.
> 
> Anyway, they sound good with some EQ. I guess I'm just not a basshead as I'm still adding mids and highs and reducing the bass. I did not expect to have to EQ out this much bass, but the EQ in the app works well, so whatever. This is the EQ I've been doing so far with the foam tips. It's a nice impactful and tight bass, but just a bit too much for me for the music I listen to. The mids and highs are great though, but I just wanted a tad more.



Glad you’re enjoying them. This EQ is about what I was using before the last firmware update. Didn’t find the need for it after updating. Have you done this? They also might change a bit and even out after some burn-in. Let us know. 

The “seal-loosing when you move your jaw” makes some sense in these because the fin (which I love for a secure fit), which is flush against your concha might be pushed when your jaw muscles flex and thus making the buds “dislocate” in your ears. Get a good nights sleep to avoid yawning, don’t chew... and enjoy the music 

Seriously now, this is a well implemented bud. For a TWS at this price, it has very good amplification, very nice tonality, timbre, soundstage and clarity. Could it be better and have the Pi7 sound? (haven’t tried it) it could... but it would cost more than 300€ and have a 3 hour battery. 

Like I told Juturna, we have not reached it yet... but we’re closer.


----------



## Juturna (Jun 30, 2021)

tiagopinto said:


> I can totally relate to the financially stable bit but you have to admit that the TWS you buy next week may be “old news” in two months time.
> 
> To give you an example, I offered my wife the Anker Soundcore Liberty Air 2 in the end of last year. She doesn’t give much priority to gadgets so, for the price, these ticked the boxes of what she needed. A month or two later they come out with the Liberty Air 2 Pro, now with ANC! I’m pissed off, I tell her... “ah, I’m fine, these are ok.” is the reaction I got. I’d be bonkers trying to return the first ones to get my hands on the new tech...
> 
> ...


Yeah, you're right! I think it's mostly due to knowing that my financial situation will change for the worse for awhile, so if I make a bad purchase i'll be stuck with something I don't enjoy. The part about the TWS I buy next week might be old news in two months time, yeah it really does feel like that. That's why I've been considering the WF-1000XM4 before the MTW2 because the Sony's are brand spanking new and the MTW2 is probably going towards the end of its life cycle. But I actually ordered the MTW2's today, or maybe I should say that I reserved a copy in-store, so I get to think a bit first before I pick them up. If money wasn't going to be an issue I would just buy the MTW2's now and the WF-1000XM4 next month and just be done with it. But it won't work like that now.


I think it's a shame that there aren't any cheaper competitors that offer equally good sound as the big brands but on a budget. I mean, there's always going to be compromises but I used to be very into smartphones a couple of years ago and there were always "flagship killers" trying to really push excellent specs and performance but with cheap prices to challenge the more expensive brands.
Actually, scratch that, there are competitors that offer almost the same sound, but I meant an earbud that has all the other bells and whistles too with ANC, Transparency Mode, Qi-charging case etc.

I bought the SoundPeats T2 last week as I wrote earlier in this thread and honestly i'm so blown away by how much headphone I got for $35, the ANC is fantastic even if I would want maybe 5-10% more to be like "I could never need more", the call quality is better than any other TWS I've had (besides Airpods that I had a couple years ago) and the sound quality for music is honestly good. But I'd still rate it at 6.5-7/10 for sound and I want something that's 9-10/10 (as in 10/10 being the best sound in a true wireless earbud) right now. They're close to being a flagship killer but the sound on offer just isn't enough to feel like I have the gear to fully enjoy my music on-the-go for the next year or so. I also worry about the longevity since some chi-fi buds just don't have the same QC as some more established brands.


----------



## DigDub

Juturna said:


> Yeah, you're right! I think it's mostly due to knowing that my financial situation will change for the worse for awhile, so if I make a bad purchase i'll be stuck with something I don't enjoy. The part about the TWS I buy next week might be old news in two months time, yeah it really does feel like that. That's why I've been considering the WF-1000XM4 before the MTW2 because the Sony's are brand spanking new and the MTW2 is probably going towards the end of its life cycle. But I actually ordered the MTW2's today, or maybe I should say that I reserved a copy in-store, so I get to think a bit first before I pick them up. If money wasn't going to be an issue I would just buy the MTW2's now and the WF-1000XM4 next month and just be done with it. But it won't work like that now.
> 
> 
> I think it's a shame that there aren't any cheaper competitors that offer equally good sound as the big brands but on a budget. I mean, there's always going to be compromises but I used to be very into smartphones a couple of years ago and there were always "flagship killers" trying to really push excellent specs and performance but with cheap prices to challenge the more expensive brands.
> ...


You can look at the Fiil t1 pro or lite. The t1 pro is amazing value for money.


----------



## jasonb

tiagopinto said:


> Glad you’re enjoying them. This EQ is about what I was using before the last firmware update. Didn’t find the need for it after updating. Have you done this? They also might change a bit and even out after some burn-in. Let us know.
> 
> The “seal-loosing when you move your jaw” makes some sense in these because the fin (which I love for a secure fit), which is flush against your concha might be pushed when your jaw muscles flex and thus making the buds “dislocate” in your ears. Get a good nights sleep to avoid yawning, don’t chew... and enjoy the music
> 
> ...



That EQ that I posted is still after the latest update. I guess I just like less bass than most people. I find most IEM's to have too much bass. I'm not sure the update changed the sound for me or not. It updated while I was in the middle of messing with EQ and trying different tips. Maybe after some break in I'll end up with a flatter curve, we'll see. I'll do some more listening tonight after work, but I was definitely impressed with what I was hearing last night.


----------



## tiagopinto (Jun 30, 2021)

Juturna said:


> Yeah, you're right! I think it's mostly due to knowing that my financial situation will change for the worse for awhile, so if I make a bad purchase i'll be stuck with something I don't enjoy. The part about the TWS I buy next week might be old news in two months time, yeah it really does feel like that. That's why I've been considering the WF-1000XM4 before the MTW2 because the Sony's are brand spanking new and the MTW2 is probably going towards the end of its life cycle. But I actually ordered the MTW2's today, or maybe I should say that I reserved a copy in-store, so I get to think a bit first before I pick them up. If money wasn't going to be an issue I would just buy the MTW2's now and the WF-1000XM4 next month and just be done with it. But it won't work like that now.
> 
> 
> I think it's a shame that there aren't any cheaper competitors that offer equally good sound as the big brands but on a budget. I mean, there's always going to be compromises but I used to be very into smartphones a couple of years ago and there were always "flagship killers" trying to really push excellent specs and performance but with cheap prices to challenge the more expensive brands.
> ...



That anxiety about stability is understandable. I feel it most of the time. I enjoy music and it’s gadgets but I also like to cater for bodyboarding, diving and mountain biking. Can’t have 350€ buds and a bad regulator, derailleur or board. No problem. Instead of owning 10 pairs of TWS, I own 2. The MT and a pair of old Bluebuds X... see, it took me 6 years to upgrade. On the other hand, last year I (very unusually) bought two new bodyboards. Can’t complain.

About getting the Sony, I have nothing against the brand, but I just hate their arcade, juvenile, market pleasing approach to sound reproduction, at least in the WH/WF department. To each his own, but it’s not for me. Although, to be fair, some of their other features are really nice, like the ANC implementation. But I don’t buy headphones because of it. It’s just not one of my priorities. If it were, I’d get the Bose. At least their sound is accurate. Not fun, not engaging, just acceptable.

As for the MTW2, @PixelSquish said the battery issues were in version 1, not 2. Like you say, a third version might be impeding. You probably won’t regret if you get them but I’ll just wait and see.

This morning I was listening to a few recent albums on the MT (using stock large tips and large fins, which work very well for me). Andy Stott, Cannibal Corpse, Ulrich Schnauss/Jonas Munk, Field Music, Lil Yachty, Alfa Mist. Like @jasonb said, insanely fun.

I too was looking for more assured QC, which in chi-fi is sometimes a gamble. Cambridge Audio made some mistakes in the beginning and a lot of people were rightfully p-off about it. I held on and they, thankfully, corrected everything with firmware. Are they perfect? No. Are they endgame? No. Are they 130€ and very nice? Yes. Are there other options, at the same price, with this sound? Probably not. Are there better options out there? Yes, but they cost more than 200€. Decisions, decisions.


----------



## Juturna

DigDub said:


> You can look at the Fiil t1 pro or lite. The t1 pro is amazing value for money.


They cost way too much unless I order them from Aliexpress and I'm really not up for waiting over a month for them to get here.  If I order them from Amazon US it's not only the price but also like $30 in import taxes and stuff, so I don't think it's going to live up to the price, but thanks for the tip!


----------



## tiagopinto

jasonb said:


> That EQ that I posted is still after the latest update. I guess I just like less bass than most people. I find most IEM's to have too much bass. I'm not sure the update changed the sound for me or not. It updated while I was in the middle of messing with EQ and trying different tips. Maybe after some break in I'll end up with a flatter curve, we'll see. I'll do some more listening tonight after work, but I was definitely impressed with what I was hearing last night.



Then I can totally understand why you didn’t like the XM3. Yes, after some burn-in, they even out a bit. They all do. Sometimes they don’t correct themselves like we wanted to.

A bit off-topic but still relevant, I recently got the Meze Rai Solo. Before burn-in they were terrible, just awful, scary. I had been warned but I was still worried. So, I connected them to my ipods, alternating each day and I chimed in for a quick listen each 24 hours. Well, after 72 to 96 hours I was amazed at how wonderfully these “settled”. Just love them to bits now. Every bit, pun intended. 
(now come tell me burn-in is a hoax... and like this other guy said in another thread recently “cables don’t make a difference”... oh lord!)

The MT won’t change as much, but still, they “settle”... for fun.


----------



## Juturna

tiagopinto said:


> That anxiety about stability is understandable. I feel it most of the time. I enjoy music and it’s gadgets but I also like to cater for bodyboarding, diving and mountain biking. Can’t have 350€ buds and a bad regulator, derailleur or board. No problem. Instead of owning 10 pairs of TWS, I own 2. The MT and a pair of old Bluebuds X... see, it took me 6 years to upgrade. On the other hand, last year I (very unusually) bought two new bodyboards. Can’t complain.
> 
> About getting the Sony, I have nothing against the brand, but I just hate their arcade, juvenile, market pleasing approach to sound reproduction, at least in the WH/WF department. To each his own, but it’s not for me. Although, to be fair, some of their other features are really nice, like the ANC implementation. But I don’t buy headphones because of it. It’s just not one of my priorities. If it were, I’d get the Bose. At least their sound is accurate. Not fun, not engaging, just acceptable.
> 
> ...


Yeah I feel you, I have a few hobbies and interests I wish I could spend my money on for some new gear, but right now I just need to make sure that I have food on the table and so on. But music is the most important thing in the world to me so I just feel like it's worth the money to get some new earbuds. 

Ah, I feel like Sony definitely has gone a bit too much with the crowd-pleasing sound signature that I just don't think I prefer ANYMORE, I used to always buy earbuds with a lot of bass and eq the crap out of them to pull up the bass even more in Poweramp (got some insane rumbles that i've never felt on any TWS) on my android phones back in the day, but my preferences have changed a little bit. 
It's a bit annoying though because I do enjoy some really impactful bass from time to time when I listen to more electronic music like Burial and Jon Hopkins for an example, and obviously with some modern pop and hip-hop/trap music that I like, but I don't like it when the bass impacts the rest of the music, and I don't like what overly consumer-oriented headphones do to more atmospheric and organic music, and you just lose something that's not measurable in hz, but it's just that headphones like that tend to evoke less of an emotional response for me because there's just SOMETHING missing, probably that little sparkle in the top end. 

I generally think that the MTW2 might be a bit lacking in the bass department for me, but i'm not 100% sure because i've only tried them with the medium tips and I pretty much always use the largest tip available with earbuds.

I think another thing is that now when I have the SoundPeats, it's going to feel SO damn hard to motivate purchasing another earbud for like 7x the money (the MTW2 is 7x the money, WF1000XM4 8x the price, and so on), because there's honestly no way that it's 7x better in sound quality compared to this, and it generally has all the features that I want in an earbud (small pocketable case, good ANC & transparency, decent call quality) except for Qi-charging which honestly isn't even important to me, just nice to have. I sound like a big Soundpeats shill here but i'm definitely not, it's just insane value for money unless it happens to break within the first few months of usage (which is a risk of course), and since they're so cheap but still generally sound decent it's going to require quite a lot of money to find something that matches it in features but also has way better sound. At least I think so. 
My budget is probably $300 so i'm okay spending that, but then I need it to be a damn good purchase.


----------



## jant71

Has anyone investigated removing foam from the XM4 nozzle? I go way back doing that with Sony to the EX600 where I cut the foam in half and put back in even. Pics don't show well but seems the same dot of glue holding the foam situation. Could be as easy as freeing with a pin then trim a bit off and reinsert.


----------



## jasonb (Jun 30, 2021)

tiagopinto said:


> Then I can totally understand why you didn’t like the XM3. Yes, after some burn-in, they even out a bit. They all do. Sometimes they don’t correct themselves like we wanted to.
> 
> A bit off-topic but still relevant, I recently got the Meze Rai Solo. Before burn-in they were terrible, just awful, scary. I had been warned but I was still worried. So, I connected them to my ipods, alternating each day and I chimed in for a quick listen each 24 hours. Well, after 72 to 96 hours I was amazed at how wonderfully these “settled”. Just love them to bits now. Every bit, pun intended.
> (now come tell me burn-in is a hoax... and like this other guy said in another thread recently “cables don’t make a difference”... oh lord!)
> ...


I liked the XM3's with a good bit of EQ with the Wavelet android app. These Melomania's definitely sound better with less EQ than I remember the XM3's needing. These have a better more layered and detailed and dynamic sound as well. They so far just seem like they are in a whole different league than any of the TWS's I've tried. I expect to be using these a lot.


----------



## AudioNoob

BlazdiqFoods said:


> Qualcomm 3040 does not support AptX Adaptive as found from AptX website. How did Soundpeats H1 manage to get that???


If you download the datasheets, 3040 and 3050 series both support AptX Adaptive


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

bladefd said:


> Which one between Crystal and Final tws do you find more compatible with a bigger variety of TWS? I have been thinking about buying new silicone eartips for several months now. I think I'm going to try either of those 2.


Probably the Final, to be honest. There's some stuff I just don't like the Crystal on.


----------



## tiagopinto

Juturna said:


> They cost way too much unless I order them from Aliexpress and I'm really not up for waiting over a month for them to get here.  If I order them from Amazon US it's not only the price but also like $30 in import taxes and stuff, so I don't think it's going to live up to the price, but thanks for the tip!



Like I said, I have nothing against other options. If they’re out there, I probably want them too.

But be aware that orders from (at least) China into the EU are ALL taxed for VAT. Starting with orders which arrive on or after the 1st of July, every order, for whatever amount is taxed. Plus the couriers expenses.


----------



## jant71

The Qualcomm chip talk reminded me to check the aptX product list and look for something interesting...
Found Unique Melody's 7mm composite dynamic + 2 Knowles Hybrid TWS.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

jant71 said:


> The Qualcomm chip talk reminded me to check the aptX product list and look for something interesting...
> Found Unique Melody's 7mm composite dynamic + 2 Knowles Hybrid TWS.


Hope it's price-competitive. Been wanting to get into their product line for a while. Based on the driver config, I have concerns about battery life, though.


----------



## jant71

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Hope it's price-competitive. Been wanting to get into their product line for a while. Based on the driver config, I have concerns about battery life, though.


Seems to be announced last year in the fall. Hopefully if it's really coming soon it will be update as far as chipset. It was BT5.0 SBC/AAC/aptX and had 5 hours per charge which if they want three bills for it is not so hot.


----------



## Stefanmz7

hey I was wondering what truly wireless earbuds should I get for 60-80 dollars max that have warm and natural sound(like warm,natural sounding vocals) and in general a warm natural sounding signature(and balanced frequency response maybe) but in general warmth in the sound?(posting that here as well since I was told I could get some more info here).


----------



## chinmie

looks like we can connect our bluetooth headphones and TWS directly to airplane's media system on the near future
https://www.theregister.com/2021/06/30/united_airlines_bluetooth_to_the_seat/


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

Stefanmz7 said:


> hey I was wondering what truly wireless earbuds should I get for 60-80 dollars max that have warm and natural sound(like warm,natural sounding vocals) and in general a warm natural sounding signature(and balanced frequency response maybe) but in general warmth in the sound?(posting that here as well since I was told I could get some more info here).


Noble Falcon (if you can find the 1st gen, they should be $70-80) would be a very safe bet. Otherwise, consider a set of Jabra Elite Active 75t and just EQ the bass down a bit. You should be able to find some within your budget if you look at Jabra's official eBay shop.


----------



## tinyman392

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Hope it's price-competitive. Been wanting to get into their product line for a while. Based on the driver config, I have concerns about battery life, though.


That's a pretty steep price.  No frills audio-focused TWS.  I know HiFiMan got a lot of flack for pricing theirs at 300.  This would be a nice comparison.  Ironically the only UniqueMelody-made headphone I have is a HiFiMan


----------



## krenzler

Just read the what hi-fi review of the melomania touch and the app and connectivity issues are really off-putting. Have nothing been fixed by ca since the release of these?


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

krenzler said:


> Just read the what hi-fi review of the melomania touch and the app and connectivity issues are really off-putting. Have nothing been fixed by ca since the release of these?


Hate to break it to you, but those guys do maybe a day's worth of testing on these things, probably got a press kit, and haven't bothered touching the thing since.

There's been plenty of firmware updates since that article came out, most of which we can confirm here produced positive results. There's still a couple things to be ironed out for TWS+ compatible devices (specifically on certain Qualcomm chips), but development has come a long way.


----------



## krenzler

Hence why I was asking.  I do know that what hi-fi is mainly glorified advertisement and not much else. It was one of the first hits from google and problems have been mentioned here too so I just wanted to gauge where we're at now this far from release day. Wondering if it is a worthy alternative to my Airpods Pros which excel in user-friendliness (on an iphone). Seems the MT doesn't have that boosted bass that so many go for. I guess the APP's are kinda a DF tuning which I've come to appreciate. I also have the Airpods Max which, despite the things they excel at, I feel have a less succesful overall tuning compared to APP which I find well judged within its limitations.


----------



## krenzler

So being an iPhone/AAC user how does the MT fare currently when ir comes to functionality and stability?


----------



## helmutcheese

SoundPeats Sonics Pro's arrived (few days from China to UK).

So far they are louder than the Sonics, will fill in more after a days or two use and going by their staffs comments on Reddit the new App (old one was pulled due to poor feedback) will support the *Sonic*/*Sonic Pro*/*H1* (cannot remember if also the *T1's* but he said recent earbuds).


----------



## jasonb (Jun 30, 2021)

krenzler said:


> Hence why I was asking.  I do know that what hi-fi is mainly glorified advertisement and not much else. It was one of the first hits from google and problems have been mentioned here too so I just wanted to gauge where we're at now this far from release day. Wondering if it is a worthy alternative to my Airpods Pros which excel in user-friendliness (on an iphone). Seems the MT doesn't have that boosted bass that so many go for. I guess the APP's are kinda a DF tuning which I've come to appreciate. I also have the Airpods Max which, despite the things they excel at, I feel have a less succesful overall tuning compared to APP which I find well judged within its limitations.



I just got my Melomania Touch yesterday, but they definitely have more bass than the airpods pro. The EQ in the app works well at making them sound how you want though. The overall sound quality, at least on an Android, using aptx is definitely better than the airpods pro once you dial the EQ in the way you want.


----------



## clerkpalmer

whelp going back to pI7. Sony’s to be returned. Nothing wrong with the Sony - they are excellent but the difference in sq is noticeable enough for me. Looks like white is all that is available. Will I hate that color combo?  
Also has anyone revisited the mw08? I gave up on them pretty quickly. Just wondering if I should give them another look.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

krenzler said:


> So being an iPhone/AAC user how does the MT fare currently when ir comes to functionality and stability?


You'll probably have a much easier time than some of us Android folk as most of these issues stem around using the TWS+ protocol (based on feedback I've received from Cambridge).

I would say that MT's bass _is_ boosted, but in such a way that it doesn't completely eclipse the mids and make everything a bloated mess. As mentioned by others, you can use the in-app EQ very effectively (to the point where you can peg a slider and it won't add distortion). It seems counterintuitive since you only get 5 bands to play with, but it's a very effective tool. Truth be told, I tend to run with no EQ at all.


----------



## TYATYA

krenzler said:


> So what BT buds have what you would call a neutral reference kind of sound? And by that I don't mean lean or bass light just not bass boosted or V-shaped that so many seem to aim for. My Airpods Pros I feel have a relatively balanced sound signature with a slight focus on the mids and a balanced bass (assuming they fit your ears). Only talking frequency response here and I'm sure they can be bettered on technicalities like detail retrieval and dynamics etc. I know it also depends on what the reference is - for Harman Target for instance it will probably be some of those models (Samsung, AKG) owned by Harman group (?).
> 
> Are Lypertek considered neutral? MTW2? Technics? What about the KEF MU3? Bose QC Buds?



I use one of two below eq for AZ70W, with ANC=On.
It is all track capatible. All instrumentals, male, femail vocal... No hash, not lacking bass nor got hash. No roll off, no sibilance, no v shape.... nothing to claim.
What I need is just want to get a little more solid kicking.
Wavelet Transience bass mode can help but it will narrower stage, openess and richness of mid.
I don’t like that sacrifice, so I disable wavelet app.
I think it is well balance, much better than slight V shape of stock Az70w


----------



## Luke Skywalker

gwompki said:


> I have just ordered a set of Geminis.  In my journey so far I have had the XM3, the XM4 and currently the Bose QC. Buds.  I like the Bose for the most part, certainly more than the Sony's in terms of sound signature.   It sounds like the Geminis tick all of my boxes from the reviews I have read, but we shall see once I receive them on Wednesday.


How do you like them?  I just got a pair and I like them a lot.  I get an annoying thumping sound when I run on the treadmill but I’ve had that issue with a lot of mine. Had to send my KEFs in for repair


----------



## tiagopinto (Jun 30, 2021)

krenzler said:


> So being an iPhone/AAC user how does the MT fare currently when ir comes to functionality and stability?



I’ve been using the MT with an iPhone XS, an iPad Air (old gen), a MacBook Pro (old gen). When I bought them I did experience some of the reported connection issues. There have been a few firmware updates and, for me, all these issues are gone.
In the last update some of us here even discussed a possible, non reported, “change” in the tuning, for the better. I can’t confirm it, but I felt it too. I seldom use EQ but before this update I used a small correction in the bass. Now it’s flat and tasty. 

As you may know, AAC’s implementation on an iPhone is really good and the MT are amazing in this simple setup.



miserybeforethemusic said:


> You'll probably have a much easier time than some of us Android folk as most of these issues stem around using the TWS+ protocol (based on feedback I've received from Cambridge).
> 
> I would say that MT's bass _is_ boosted, but in such a way that it doesn't completely eclipse the mids and make everything a bloated mess. As mentioned by others, you can use the in-app EQ very effectively (to the point where you can peg a slider and it won't add distortion). It seems counterintuitive since you only get 5 bands to play with, but it's a very effective tool. Truth be told, I tend to run with no EQ at all.



What I can say, from what I re-experienced today, taking a break from the Rai Solo, listening to all types of music, is that that upper bass doesn’t mess up the mids at all. It is “over-present” but the mids are still clear and separated. We’re talking about Bluetooth here, still not the same instrument separation or soundstage, obviously. But these do a darn good job. (again, at 130€)


----------



## Luke Skywalker

Luchyres said:


> I'm enjoying the Devialet Gemini sound - but an annoying issue has cropped up. It seems that every few seconds to minutes the touch-panel on one of the buds is being triggered pausing or unpausing music at random intervals. At first I thought it was my hair or something affecting source app but after removing those variables it seems the TWS itself may be somehow triggering the touch zone internally (perhaps moisture, it is humid here right now). It seems to be the right bud which also is 20% lower battery than the L....
> 
> I've tried an initial go at re-setting, but thus far no success - the issue is still happening. If anyone else has experienced this or has a good tip please let me know!
> 
> ...


That’s really strange… are you using an iPhone?  Ive been using mine for a week or so and they’ve worked flawlessly. Although I’m not in love with the case. It slides open rather easily in my pocket/bag


----------



## tinyman392

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Hate to break it to you, but those guys do maybe a day's worth of testing on these things, probably got a press kit, and haven't bothered touching the thing since.
> 
> There's been plenty of firmware updates since that article came out, most of which we can confirm here produced positive results. There's still a couple things to be ironed out for TWS+ compatible devices (specifically on certain Qualcomm chips), but development has come a long way.


Back when I was writing reviews, I always got between 3-7 days (minimum) when I was using a review sample and writing my reviews.  That said, it wasn't uncommon for me to receive pre-production samples, but most things were production samples.  You are correct though, unless I really enjoyed using a product, I probably wouldn't touch it again until it came time to do comparisons (which only happened if the product became popular).


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

tinyman392 said:


> Back when I was writing reviews, I always got between 3-7 days (minimum) when I was using a review sample and writing my reviews.  That said, it wasn't uncommon for me to receive pre-production samples, but most things were production samples.  You are correct though, unless I really enjoyed using a product, I probably wouldn't touch it again until it came time to do comparisons (which only happened if the product became popular).


Having just come off the Evo tour, we had 7 days as well. I just can't believe, from the body of What.Hifi's reviews, that they spend more than an hour with their gear.

Funnily enough, some of the pairs that I would jeer the most a few years ago are now some of my favorites. Preferences certainly change...


----------



## DRuM (Jun 30, 2021)

helmutcheese said:


> SoundPeats Sonics Pro's arrived (few days from China to UK).
> 
> So far they are louder than the Sonics, will fill in more after a days or two use and going by their staffs comments on Reddit the new App (old one was pulled due to poor feedback) will support the *Sonic*/*Sonic Pro*/*H1* (cannot remember if also the *T1's* but he said recent earbuds).



Hey helmut, just the person that might be able to help me. I'm about to pull the trigger on the original Soundpeats Sonics. I didn't really want push buttons, I prefer touch like on my Mpow M30, but I'm mostly buying the Sonic for the advertised super long 15 hour battery life and a bit more bass weight than the Mpow. Can you tell me from your experience if the battery gets close to that, let's say at 70 to 80% volume? I'd be very happy if I made 8 to 10 hours as my M30 only gives about 4 hours.

Also, head-fi member 'regancipher' said he returned his sonic because he said they're top heavy and don't sit nicely in the ears. Is that your experience? They certainly look quite bulky. He also said the bass is fatiguing? Would you say it's punchy on the mid bass? And the red lights illuminate the room too much?

Alternatively, I was considering the Soundpeats T2 as they're touch controls, also similar battery life about 10 or 11 hours, and might also offer better bass than my M30. Any experience of those and how they sit in the ear? The only thing with the T2 is that they don't have previous track button press but that's not a deal breaker.


----------



## tinyman392

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Having just come off the Evo tour, we had 7 days as well. I just can't believe, from the body of What.Hifi's reviews, that they spend more than an hour with their gear.
> 
> Funnily enough, some of the pairs that I would jeer the most a few years ago are now some of my favorites. Preferences certainly change...


Depends on the reviewer I guess.  Keep in mind that the Evo tour is just that, a tour.  Etymotic would be sending their reviewers (ones that contacted through their PR) a review sample.  I know Etymotic let me keep the EtyKids review sample I got years back, though I'm not sure how they'd handle the Evo.  I've rarely had to return a review sample (Philips and Sony come to mind), but normally they gave us 2-3 weeks with the review sample.


----------



## krenzler

I know I'm asking questions from all 4 corners but what is up with this Oluv guy and his tuned edition of the Earfun Free Pro? I see some videos where he compares to many of the more expensive respected brands and each time the Earfuns seem to come out on top - at least according to his preference target curve (Harman?). Are these really a steal or just hyped by someone who gets a commission from each sale? Just curious.


----------



## BooleanBones

clerkpalmer said:


> whelp going back to pI7. Sony’s to be returned. Nothing wrong with the Sony - they are excellent but the difference in sq is noticeable enough for me. Looks like white is all that is available. Will I hate that color combo?
> Also has anyone revisited the mw08? I gave up on them pretty quickly. Just wondering if I should give them another look.


My Sony's ANC just flaked out on me and Sony support said they needed service, so sending in for replacement  I think the PI7s would look a whole lot better without that silver/gold added. I felt like I looked a little more like Frankenstein with those "bolts" coming out my ears  Outside of that, I thought the white was fine. Black shows available on their web site, but maybe you are wanting to order from somewhere else. Good luck


----------



## krenzler

tiagopinto said:


> As you may know, AAC’s implementation on an iPhone is really good and the MT are amazing in this simple setup.


Does the high performance mode work on AAC or is it aptX only?


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

krenzler said:


> Does the high performance mode work on AAC or is it aptX only?


Works on all codecs. What I will say is I can't see any battery advantage to switching to Low Power, so I leave it in High Performance all the time.


----------



## rhsauer

clerkpalmer said:


> whelp going back to pI7. Sony’s to be returned. Nothing wrong with the Sony - they are excellent but the difference in sq is noticeable enough for me. Looks like white is all that is available. Will I hate that color combo?
> Also has anyone revisited the mw08? I gave up on them pretty quickly. Just wondering if I should give them another look.


I have not "revisited" the MW08 (because I never gave up on them), but I did just switch from the large Spinfit CP100s to the mediums and, surprisingly, the comfort improved tremendously and the sound and ANC seem even better too.  These are very tip sensitive, and I would suggest trying a size down from your usual tip size.


----------



## samandhi

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Works on all codecs. What I will say is I can't see any battery advantage to switching to Low Power, so I leave it in High Performance all the time.


Yeah, for me I also don't see any battery life gain, but definitely hear a quality drop in the low power mode.


----------



## mainguy

clerkpalmer said:


> whelp going back to pI7. Sony’s to be returned. Nothing wrong with the Sony - they are excellent but the difference in sq is noticeable enough for me. Looks like white is all that is available. Will I hate that color combo?
> Also has anyone revisited the mw08? I gave up on them pretty quickly. Just wondering if I should give them another look.


I haven't revisited M&D true wireless after the MW07+. I recently got the MW65 they do though, and find them a bit off. I cant describe it with M&D, their products sound interesting, different, they've got their own signature...But it's not full enough, the MW65 lack something in the mids, the MW07+ sound a bit artifical. I just can't see them competing with Sony or B&W on sound for a while, if ever.


----------



## nekonhime

Just received the kz z3 tws today. I am quite please with the sound ( reduce bass a little will be better in my opinion), passive noise cancelation is quite good. This have aptx LL and atpx adaptive codecs. I recommend buying this over the xm4 ( for sound only)


----------



## helmutcheese (Jun 30, 2021)

DRuM said:


> Hey helmut, just the person that might be able to help me. I'm about to pull the trigger on the original Soundpeats Sonics. I didn't really want push buttons, I prefer touch like on my Mpow M30, but I'm mostly buying the Sonic for the advertised super long 15 hour battery life and a bit more bass weight than the Mpow. Can you tell me from your experience if the battery gets close to that, let's say at 70 to 80% volume? I'd be very happy if I made 8 to 10 hours as my M30 only gives about 4 hours.
> 
> Also, head-fi member 'regancipher' said he returned his sonic because he said they're top heavy and don't sit nicely in the ears. Is that your experience? They certainly look quite bulky. He also said the bass is fatiguing? Would you say it's punchy on the mid bass? And the red lights illuminate the room too much?
> 
> Alternatively, I was considering the Soundpeats T2 as they're touch controls, also similar battery life about 10 or 11 hours, and might also offer better bass than my M30. Any experience of those and how they sit in the ear? The only thing with the T2 is that they don't have previous track button press but that's not a deal breaker.




Yes I left a basic review same time as him, the Sonic and Sonic Pro are same shape so top heavy, the battery on the Sonic's lasted nowhere near 15 hours even at half the claimed Vol @ 60% (so @ Vol 30% overnight for me) nor did the H1 Prem's or T2's (I meant T2 above not T1 sorry).

Added to the fact the case will also fall short on all them so only partially charge the buds the last time meaning they power up in the case once case is flat and connect to the last device while you are say in bed.

T2's are same in that not a great shape or  fit and poor passive NC but the ANC is actually pretty good (sounds contradictive as the of lack of passive, Gamesky on YT said the same).

I bought the T2's for sleep as no way I could live with no Previous Track control for during the day (the ANC selection replaces that), 10 hour or 7.5hours with ANC both @ Vol 60% so I should have been able to get at least 8 hours with ANC @ 30% but no go, I got woke up every day with low battery warning then shutdown voice prompts.

The Sonic's and H1 Prem's both developed a fault in one bud within weeks (common issue, see on Amazon UK/US comment and Kickstarter page), the Sonic is nowhere near loud enough for normally outside listening with a bit of headroom for your fav song or lower volume albums.

The Sonics did sound pretty good and the H1 Prem's even better and these Sonic Pro's are also good but it is early days for the buds/case battery etc.


----------



## CocaCola15 (Jun 30, 2021)

krenzler said:


> So being an iPhone/AAC user how does the MT fare currently when ir comes to functionality and stability?


Being the happy owner of both the CA MT and the M1+, both are fantastic companions to my oldish IP8+. The Melomania doesn’t get much notice hearabouts, but I like them equally. The form factor of the M1+ Is not pretty, but offers foam tips for great confort and I like the tactile buttons. I easily settled for the CA duo. Best price to performance I’ve experienced.  Probably buy their next offering.
I also owned the original M1. Gave them to an old friend. He sent me a very nice bottle of French bubbly. He loves them!


----------



## Luke Skywalker

gwompki said:


> I'm interested to try some Azla tips.  I thought I read a few pages back that the Azla TWS crystal would not fit in the Devialet Gemini case.  Any recommendations for the Geminis?


The Acoustune AET08 tips sound amazing. They’re my favorite


----------



## samandhi

nekonhime said:


> Just received the kz z3 tws today. I am quite please with the sound ( reduce bass a little will be better in my opinion), passive noise cancelation is quite good. This have aptx LL and atpx adaptive codecs. I recommend buying this over the xm4 ( for sound only)


Those look like regular IEMs (and nice looking ones too). Are they DD+BA?


----------



## Luke Skywalker

krenzler said:


> Hello fellow TWS fans. I've been enjoying my Airpods Pros for some time now but the new toy itch is there and I would like to try something else/new. I'm an iPhone user and really like the fit/comfort and ease of use with the APP's. Also I actually think they sound pretty good with nice midrange clarity and not too overbearing bass. But I do know they can be bettered for SQ.
> 
> These I'm contemplating:
> 
> ...


KEFs all the way my friend.  Even better than the Bose, which I like quite a lot


----------



## jasonb

In terms of technicalities, soundstage, and imaging the Melomania Touch's are the best true wireless buds I've heard yet. Makes the Galaxy Buds sound super congested. The Airpods Pro have decent width, but these are still better, and actually have depth and height. And there is some very decent imaging going on with recordings that have stuff going on all over the place, one example is the old prog band Gentle Giant with all the vocalists voices all over the place. 

Hard to believe these are Bluetooth and only aptx, granted I'm only using Spotify.


----------



## nekonhime

samandhi said:


> Those look like regular IEMs (and nice looking ones too). Are they DD+BA?


Yes, they are


----------



## samandhi

nekonhime said:


> Yes, they are


Well, I would be interested to hear your impressions of them once you have had time to listen to them for a bit?! Everything about them looks interesting, except the deletion of volume control. What's up with everyone leaving out volume control on the new TWS coming out?


----------



## cattboy

nekonhime said:


> Just received the kz z3 tws today. I am quite please with the sound ( reduce bass a little will be better in my opinion), passive noise cancelation is quite good. This have aptx LL and atpx adaptive codecs. I recommend buying this over the xm4 ( for sound only)


Did you buy from Linsoul or eliexpress?  aptX-LL, I'm intrigued!  They also say up to 6 hour battery


----------



## nekonhime

samandhi said:


> Well, I would be interested to hear your impressions of them once you have had time to listen to them for a bit?! Everything about them looks interesting, except the deletion of volume control. What's up with everyone leaving out volume control on the new TWS coming out?


I dont mind leaving the sound control out of the tws as the function only make the tws harder to use.
After listening and watching loki to the kz z3, it super bassy at first but not muddy like sony with default ear tips, but I eq it and the soundstage become wider. It have a good separation betwen instruments and the singer, fitting for pop and soft music. The earbuds just fit into my ears and reduce around 70-80% of the noise around me which is quite well make. It quite lacking in the low, but the mid and high are spot on. Also, the Z3 have the aptx LL which allow less lag behind when you playing game or listening to music.
The bad thing is this one is bassy, and kz only gave you 2 pairs of ear tips.
Overall, for 43$, I recommend to try this one out.


----------



## nekonhime

cattboy said:


> Did you buy from Linsoul or eliexpress?  aptX-LL, I'm intrigued!  They also say up to 6 hour battery


I bought it from Aliexpress, but you can also order ot from Amazon


----------



## TK33

clerkpalmer said:


> whelp going back to pI7. Sony’s to be returned. Nothing wrong with the Sony - they are excellent but the difference in sq is noticeable enough for me. Looks like white is all that is available. Will I hate that color combo?
> Also has anyone revisited the mw08? I gave up on them pretty quickly. Just wondering if I should give them another look.


I actually really like my white ones but I seem to be in the minority here and was one of the few who actually seemed to want the white over the black color (both were available when I ordered).  I say get the one you want.  They come back in stock pretty often so if you want black PI7s I would wait. If you are paying $400 +tax you should get the ones you want (I just prefer white for everything these days but that is just personal preference).


----------



## TK33

mainguy said:


> I haven't revisited M&D true wireless after the MW07+. I recently got the MW65 they do though, and find them a bit off. I cant describe it with M&D, their products sound interesting, different, they've got their own signature...But it's not full enough, the MW65 lack something in the mids, the MW07+ sound a bit artifical. I just can't see them competing with Sony or B&W on sound for a while, if ever.


I have similar feelings about my MW07Go.  They have a "fun" and U shaped sound to me (I generally like more mids) and haven't really used them except as workout buds (due to their high IPX rating) since I got my PI7s. PI7s have a fantastic sound stage and sound very natural to me with Spinfit tips.


----------



## potix (Jun 30, 2021)

TK33 said:


> Are you using stock tips? They have a filter in there that makes the PI7s sound very warm (sucks out the treble).  I would not describe them as V shaped.  I am using Spinfits and like the sound much better compared to the stock tips.


Not V-shaped when compensated but too much warm sounding. I've updated the autoeq file for wavelet posted yesterday and with that they will sound much more natural retaining a good amount of bass. When equalized I think they sound better than any other tws (not many) I've tried in the past: mx3, mtw1, az70, freebuds pro. Still very far from cables though.
I don't own many tips to try with, I've used the az70 ones that have a wide bore, spinfit 360, a couple airpod pro like (don't know where did they come from, they were under my desk ) and azla short light. For obvious reasons I didn't try foam tips. The azla worked better producing a bit cleaner treble.



cattboy said:


> Thanks.  These might be the only aptX-LL TWS that are out there.
> 
> Battery life still avg ~4 hours for you too?


I will probably test it in the weekend.


----------



## Juturna

For the people with the Devialet Gemini’s, how do they compare sound-wise to the XM4s and the MTW2s?


----------



## Luke Skywalker

So I got the Fiio UTSW3 and hooked them up to my JH Lola’s….i never thought I would hear sound like this wirelessly.

You were right, @miserybeforethemusic; they don’t fit in the case with the adapters. But the iBasso didn’t have the volume adjustment which I really wanted for the gym.

Just astonishing sound. Only drawback is that obviously none of my TWS buds compare but that’s not a fair comparison given the difference in price


----------



## DRuM

helmutcheese said:


> Yes I left a basic review same time as him, the Sonic and Sonic Pro are same shape so top heavy, the battery on the Sonic's lasted nowhere near 15 hours even at half the claimed Vol @ 60% (so @ Vol 30% overnight for me) nor did the H1 Prem's or T2's (I meant T2 above not T1 sorry).
> 
> Added to the fact the case will also fall short on all them so only partially charge the buds the last time meaning they power up in the case once case is flat and connect to the last device while you are say in bed.
> 
> ...


Thanks, excellent reply! Wow, I'm glad I didn't buy any Soundpeats buds then.  That's very poor if the battery life is nowhere near.
I've discovered another bud now, the Tribit Flybuds C1. They do 12 hours before needing to charge and apparently have really good SQ. I'm not keen on having stems and it's also physical buttons but they look pretty nice and look as though like they'll fit comfortably. I'm going to check head-fi for opinions on those buds.


----------



## helmutcheese

Tribit Flybuds C1, I got 7 hours or so overnight so again about 30% Vol (assuming the claim is at 50%), they sound ok but are not very loud at 100% and I ideally do not like the Pod style and sometime the buttons do nothing so if outside (I do not carry the cases ever) I could not do anything till I got home and popped in the case which fixes the issue.

They are comfy though.


----------



## samandhi

Luke Skywalker said:


> So I got the Fiio UTSW3 and hooked them up to my JH Lola’s….i never thought I would hear sound like this wirelessly.
> 
> You were right, @miserybeforethemusic; they don’t fit in the case with the adapters. But the iBasso didn’t have the volume adjustment which I really wanted for the gym.
> 
> Just astonishing sound. Only drawback is that obviously none of my TWS buds compare but that’s not a fair comparison given the difference in price


Yeah, but now you have a problem. How you gonn' go back to TWS after hearing that? LOL


----------



## cattboy

nekonhime said:


> I bought it from Aliexpress, but you can also order ot from Amazon


Was looking at using Comply Foam ear tips with these, think they'll fit?  Is it a standard ear nozzle?  cheers !


----------



## DRuM (Jun 30, 2021)

helmutcheese said:


> Tribit Flybuds C1, I got 7 hours or so overnight so again about 30% Vol (assuming the claim is at 50%), they sound ok but are not very loud at 100% and I ideally do not like the Pod style and sometime the buttons do nothing so if outside (I do not carry the cases ever) I could not do anything till I got home and popped in the case which fixes the issue.
> 
> They are comfy though.


Interesting.  Two reviewers on YouTube said they got just over 11 hours at 70%, and one reviewer said they're uncomfortably loud at 100%. But anyway,  I really do prefer to have touch controls so I probably wouldn't have been happy with the C1. It's a pity my Mpow M30 has a rather short battery life because it does everything else flawlessy, particularly for a cheap bud. Can you recommend a bud up to $100 with proper long battery life and pretty deep bass? How about the Tronsmart Apollo Bold? They apparently have long battery life?


----------



## helmutcheese

The Bold's are crap IMO, read reviews some of us left back when they launched, also very big and top heavy.

IMO there is no ideal TWS today, I am returning the WF-1000XM4's and have not worn for nearly a week.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

Luke Skywalker said:


> So I got the Fiio UTSW3 and hooked them up to my JH Lola’s….i never thought I would hear sound like this wirelessly.
> 
> You were right, @miserybeforethemusic; they don’t fit in the case with the adapters. But the iBasso didn’t have the volume adjustment which I really wanted for the gym.
> 
> Just astonishing sound. Only drawback is that obviously none of my TWS buds compare but that’s not a fair comparison given the difference in price


Hahahaha it really is better for SQ, unfortunately. Glad the Lola are working with that Fiio adapter! Sorry to hear about them not fitting in the case, though.

Think of it this way: now you can neglect your IEMs less. There will still be occasions you want the features normal TWS have. Heck, I've got the CX400BT in right now and you know I could pick stuff that sounds "better," especially since I'm at home. Enjoy your flavor, bud.


----------



## CocaCola15

Probably blasphemy in these parts, but to my admittedly aging ears, the CA Melomania 1+ just delivers a fuller, more robust ear-pleasing experience. Same track: Tom Petty, You Don’t Know How It Feels via Apple Music’s new spatial audio on the LG V30. EQ set to balanced. Again, love them both, the M1+ A bit more.


----------



## tinyman392

Luke Skywalker said:


> So I got the Fiio UTSW3 and hooked them up to my JH Lola’s….i never thought I would hear sound like this wirelessly.
> 
> You were right, miserybeforethemusic; they don’t fit in the case with the adapters. But the iBasso didn’t have the volume adjustment which I really wanted for the gym.
> 
> Just astonishing sound. Only drawback is that obviously none of my TWS buds compare but that’s not a fair comparison given the difference in price


The not fitting in the case might not be so fun when it comes to charging the TWS. Does the case close enough for them to shut off automatically and begin charging?  I guess you can always turn them off yourself and toss them in the case with the lid loose; I don't know if they'll automatically start charging when you do that though (haven't tested that myself).  

I really don't touch many of my TWS headphones since getting my TWS adapters.  The only one that's really used is the APP which is for phone calls.


----------



## dweaver

The new CX True Wireless poses a strong value position from Sennheiser, they might sell enough of that model to make more money than the flagship.

I am still stung from the MTW 1 though so a bit shy on trying Sennheiser again so will wait and see if any build quality issues arise before thinking about trying the new model.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

dweaver said:


> The new CX True Wireless poses a strong value position from Senheiser, they might sell enough of that model to make more money than the flagship.
> 
> I am still stung from the MTW 1 though so a bit shy on trying Sennheiser again so will wait and see if any build quality issues arise before thinking about trying the new model.


I believe I saw a reference to a CX200 in Flossy's review. Pretty sure Senn already had these in the works before the acquisition.

I think, unless you positively need the latest and greatest, the CX400 might be a better bet. Less points of failure, for sure. If the new tuning is bassier than the CX400's, it's going to be too much.


----------



## SemiAudiophile

tinyman392 said:


> The not fitting in the case might not be so fun when it comes to charging the TWS. Does the case close enough for them to shut off automatically and begin charging?  I guess you can always turn them off yourself and toss them in the case with the lid loose; I don't know if they'll automatically start charging when you do that though (haven't tested that myself).
> 
> I really don't touch many of my TWS headphones since getting my TWS adapters.  The only one that's really used is the APP which is for phone calls.


I used the UTWS3 hooked up to the Oracle the other day for a call. Guess they do a pretty decent job, since I didn't hear any complaints so. 😅

Contemplating on which TWS/IEM I should bring on the plane. None of them have ANC. I'm leaning towards the ER4 because they'll have the best passive isolation. Or I could just go with the trusty Sony WH-1000xm2 which sound great for movies but just decent for music. Decisions decisions.


----------



## krenzler

English subs are provided.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

SemiAudiophile said:


> I used the UTWS3 hooked up to the Oracle the other day for a call. Guess they do a pretty decent job, since I didn't hear any complaints so. 😅
> 
> Contemplating on which TWS/IEM I should bring on the plane. None of them have ANC. I'm leaning towards the ER4 because they'll have the best passive isolation. Or I could just go with the trusty Sony WH-1000xm2 which sound great for movies but just decent for music. Decisions decisions.


My vote is for the Ety


----------



## ticoss

krenzler said:


> English subs are provided.



Good video, very detailed


----------



## Sebulr

I was wondering if I am an outlier, or others on this thread have similar problems with bluetooth devices as me; I have a few devices that a bit "grabby" at stealing my bluetooth connection if I walk within range of them, my car is one, but I generally want it to do that, so it's by design. But my KZ az09 bluetooth ear hooks often disconnect from the case in my bag and switch on occasionally, and if I walking in and out of range of them they sometimes hijack my connection, if I am listening to another pair. I often have to forget them on my phone, because they are obnoxious in doing that. Am I the only one? Or is this common? It is slightly annoying, but they sound quite good, with my ZS10 pros, or ZSX.


----------



## tinyman392

Sebulr said:


> I was wondering if I am an outlier, or others on this thread have similar problems with bluetooth devices as me; I have a few devices that a bit "grabby" at stealing my bluetooth connection if I walk within range of them, my car is one, but I generally want it to do that, so it's by design. But my KZ az09 bluetooth ear hooks often disconnect from the case in my bag and switch on occasionally, and if I walking in and out of range of them they sometimes hijack my connection, if I am listening to another pair. I often have to forget them on my phone, because they are obnoxious in doing that. Am I the only one? Or is this common? It is slightly annoying, but they sound quite good, with my ZS10 pros, or ZSX.


Some BT devices do this and are obnoxious about it too. I’m actually not sure why. It’s only a small handful and they’re quite rare.


----------



## assassin10000

Sebulr said:


> I was wondering if I am an outlier, or others on this thread have similar problems with bluetooth devices as me; I have a few devices that a bit "grabby" at stealing my bluetooth connection if I walk within range of them, my car is one, but I generally want it to do that, so it's by design. But my KZ az09 bluetooth ear hooks often disconnect from the case in my bag and switch on occasionally, and if I walking in and out of range of them they sometimes hijack my connection, if I am listening to another pair. I often have to forget them on my phone, because they are obnoxious in doing that. Am I the only one? Or is this common? It is slightly annoying, but they sound quite good, with my ZS10 pros, or ZSX.



Maybe look at using some adhesive foam or felt between the lid and earpieces for a more stable fit with the lid closed?


----------



## Sebulr

assassin10000 said:


> Maybe look at using some adhesive foam or felt between the lid and earpieces for a more stable fit with the lid closed?


There actually was some foam packed in with them, but I foolishly binned it.


----------



## tiagopinto

krenzler said:


> Does the high performance mode work on AAC or is it aptX only?



Yes.
Performance setting is independent from codec or OS



miserybeforethemusic said:


> Works on all codecs. What I will say is I can't see any battery advantage to switching to Low Power, so I leave it in High Performance all the time.



Never used “low power”. When I got them, I tried it just to see if it worked. Only if I was stranded on an island somewhere and really wanted an extra hour of music would I compress what is already compressed, otherwise I always want every bit I can get, pun intended. Moreover, if you say there’s no noticeable difference, I’ll make sure to never use it.


----------



## gdv brisbane

Luke Skywalker said:


> So I got the Fiio UTSW3 and hooked them up to my JH Lola’s….i never thought I would hear sound like this wirelessly.
> 
> Just astonishing sound. Only drawback is that obviously none of my TWS buds compare but that’s not a fair comparison given the difference in price


My daily wireless driver is now the Moondrop Aria paired with the TRN BT20S Pro adapters. The SQ is staggeringly good but I haven't tried TOTL TWS to be able to make a fair comparison. Is anyone able to compare the Arias with the CA MT - as they seem to be the current TWS SQ kings and are roughly the same price as Aria+BT20S Pro?


----------



## jant71

JVC took the XC90T and made it into the XC91T...




Still 12mm driver and second acoustic chamber with tornado duct inside and the deep bass port. Now they are BT5.2 SBC/AAC/aptX/AptX adaptive and have hybrid ANC with 11 hour battery life(17 hours ANC off). True wireless mirroring, Class 1, and new higher performance LDS antenna. IP55, touch and talk(should auto pause instead of just lowering the volume IMO), and improved mics over the first version. Should still have the bass boost function so they are not just "XX" for the bass crowd only but can give flat or added bass. New case...



...that still only gives 1 extra charge so 22 or 34(ANC off) hours with the case. Price seems to stay at around the $200 mark.


----------



## Stefanmz7

https://redirect.viglink.com/?forma...majorhifi.com/strauss-wagner-sw-tw401-review/

Hey,anyone tried these and what are your thoughts about them? Is the review correct? And what is your own opinion?


----------



## samandhi

Stefanmz7 said:


> https://redirect.viglink.com/?format=go&jsonp=vglnk_162514334103310&key=1e99669452acedd7650a94861c9354cb&libId=kqkwd6ji0101zlp1000MLevdugw9wcsts&loc=https://www.head-fi.org/threads/good-warm-sounding-truly-wireless-earbuds.958454/#post-16433958&v=1&opt=true&out=https://majorhifi.com/strauss-wagner-sw-tw401-review/&title=Good warm sounding truly wireless earbuds | Headphone Reviews and Discussion - Head-Fi.org&txt=https://majorhifi.com/strauss-wagner-sw-tw401-review/
> 
> Hey,anyone tried these and what are your thoughts about them? Is the review correct? And what is your own opinion?


I haven't heard them, but I wouldn't trust the review on Majorhifi. They cite 16 hour battery, when everyplace else I looked it is 3 hours x3 recharges. Also there is no codec mentioned, so I'm guessing it is SBC only. From some of the others reviews they are also mentioned as being very dark (big bass, recessed mids, and rolled off highs). Also, they aren't using a Qualcomm chip (the most popular and used chip on the planet for BT), they use a Realtek chip. For $59, you probably could do better, but they look really nice. If none of those other things matter, they could be good for you.


----------



## Stefanmz7

samandhi said:


> I haven't heard them, but I wouldn't trust the review on Majorhifi. They cite 16 hour battery, when everyplace else I looked it is 3 hours x3 recharges. Also there is no codec mentioned, so I'm guessing it is SBC only. From some of the others reviews they are also mentioned as being very dark (big bass, recessed mids, and rolled off highs). Also, they aren't using a Qualcomm chip (the most popular and used chip on the planet for BT), they use a Realtek chip. For $59, you probably could do better, but they look really nice. If none of those other things matter, they could be good for you.


Dang it I wanted them because they said the mids are great and the highs and the vocals sound intimate and lifelike but I might have to read more reviews then. Also the fact that they have a Realtek chip is good I have Realtek audio in my PC and it's great.


----------



## samandhi

Stefanmz7 said:


> Dang it I wanted them because they said the mids are great and the highs and the vocals sound intimate and lifelike but I might have to read more reviews then. Also the fact that they have a Realtek chip is good I have Realtek audio in my PC and it's great.


Oh, I didn't mean to sound like I was talking bad about it being Realtek. Pretty much all laptops that have sound, have a Realtek sound card in them nowadays. I was just pointing it out, as it is not nearly as popular as the Qualcomm chip. Apparently the Mi Airdots uses Realtek, and they appear to be cheap - $20 (though I know nothing about them at this point, it seems someone on here has mentioned them before).


----------



## Stefanmz7 (Jul 1, 2021)

samandhi said:


> Oh, I didn't mean to sound like I was talking bad about it being Realtek. Pretty much all laptops that have sound, have a Realtek sound card in them nowadays. I was just pointing it out, as it is not nearly as popular as the Qualcomm chip. Apparently the Mi Airdots uses Realtek, and they appear to be cheap - $20 (though I know nothing about them at this point, it seems someone on here has mentioned them before).


I have the airdots,but the sound is a bit too bass even when I tune it down I don't find the midrange and the vocals good enough. I read more reviews on the Strauss and Wagner,so most of them say they got a lot of bass which I don't like I don't want another boombox for my ears. But the reviews also say the vocals sound close and clear which I like and that the bass doesn't affect the rest of the sound  so it's heavy but balanced. Some reviews though say the mids are recessed. What the **** is it are they recessed or are they not??? What is this bull****? What do I trust and what not?


----------



## samandhi

Stefanmz7 said:


> I have the airdots,but the sound is a bit too bass even when I tune it down I don't find the midrange and the vocals good enough. I read more reviews on the Strauss and Wagner,so most of them say they got a lot of bass which I don't like I don't want another boombox for my ears. But the reviews also say the vocals sound close and clear which I like and that the bass doesn't affect the rest of the sound  so it's heavy but balanced. Some reviews though say the mids are recessed. What the **** is it are they recessed or are they not??? What is this bull****? What do I trust and what not?


I know where you're coming from. Nowadays it is hard to trust reviews. Maybe check out some reviews on Youtube. The major review sites like Majorhifi, and etc... are not to be trusted. I think most of them don't even really listen to them, they just regurgitate what is already accessible from the website, listen for 10 minutes, and then write the review. 

In the price range you are looking at, it will be hard to find the sound you are looking for. It seems the cheaper they get, the more the bass is boomy, and mids are recesed (a V), and are poorly implemented to boot. 

If you are looking for neutral and clear, that doesn't have super boosted bass, and mids are a bit forward, (though they are not warm per se' but the treble is very unobnoxious) I would recommend the Nuarl N6 for $79 ( you might be able to get them cheaper elsewhere). They have AptX, and use buttons for controls, and they are on both sides. They don't have really any other features to speak of, but the sound is pretty fantastic for the price...  You could get the N6 Pro for a little more, but honestly the only difference is that you also get a set of Spinfit CP360 along with the regular assortment of tips.


----------



## samandhi

I stand corrected. Apparently the N6 do indeed use an earlier version of the same driver, they are supposed to be warmer, but bass response is supposed to be of more quantity. I am not sure if this puts them at "bass heavy" or not, because the N6Pro could in some circles, be considered bass light (though not to me, they are actually pretty neutral). Maybe someone on here has heard the regular N6 and can clarify for you?!


----------



## Stefanmz7

Yes hopefully someone can clarify. In the meantime I will see some YouTube reviews.  I really want some nice mids and highs on a sub 100 dollars and sub 80 possibly I really hope it's possible.  If someone can recommend anything else or clarify about the N6 it will be great


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

Stefanmz7 said:


> Yes hopefully someone can clarify. In the meantime I will see some YouTube reviews.  I really want some nice mids and highs on a sub 100 dollars and sub 80 possibly I really hope it's possible.  If someone can recommend anything else or clarify about the N6 it will be great


You're probably going to end up in either Nuarl or Lypertek tuning at that price.


----------



## bubsdaddy

CocaCola15 said:


> Probably blasphemy in these parts, but to my admittedly aging ears, the CA Melomania 1+ just delivers a fuller, more robust ear-pleasing experience. Same track: Tom Petty, You Don’t Know How It Feels via Apple Music’s new spatial audio on the LG V30. EQ set to balanced. Again, love them both, the M1+ A bit more.


Which earbuds are you comparing these too?


----------



## Stefanmz7

miserybeforethemusic said:


> You're probably going to end up in either Nuarl or Lypertek tuning at that price.


Ok I checked out the Nuarl N6 and the Lypetek Tevi. And the Lypertek Tevi are marked as audiophile friendly with good mids and highs clear and front sounding vocals(closer to you) which is exactly what I want but the Nuarl N6 also have some nice words for the mids and highs in the reviews(I don't know if I should trust them). So what would you recommend me the Lypertek Tevi the Nuarl N6 or the Nuarl N6 Pro(what's the difference?) at that price for clear natural close to you vocals(intimate vocals) and clear nice sounding not similar highs and NOT booming base?Honestly whichever one you say I am inclined to just go and buy because I am getting desperate at this point about finding good earbuds for my budget. So which one is the best for my criteria?


----------



## SemiAudiophile (Jul 1, 2021)

Stefanmz7 said:


> Ok I checked out the Nuarl N6 and the Lypetek Tevi. And the Lypertek Tevi are marked as audiophile friendly with good mids and highs clear and front sounding vocals(closer to you) which is exactly what I want but the Nuarl N6 also have some nice words for the mids and highs in the reviews(I don't know if I should trust them). So what would you recommend me the Lypertek Tevi the Nuarl N6 or the Nuarl N6 Pro(what's the difference?) at that price for clear natural close to you vocals(intimate vocals) and clear nice sounding not similar highs and NOT booming base?Honestly whichever one you say I am inclined to just go and buy because I am getting desperate at this point about finding good earbuds for my budget. So which one is the best for my criteria?


I don't think you can go wrong with either. Both have very nice "audiophile" type tuning. Good detail, mids/highs.

I only had the n6p for a short period but I remember them sounding amazing. On certain tracks I found them to be a bit shrill or sibilant though. I think you'll be able to EQ them down to your preference though. I remember the n6p as being intimate sounding as well. Great for vocals. 

The Tevi's have a more "flat" neutral reference type of sound. Nothing on the bandwidth  is emphasized or stand out in particular. They are intimate sounding and are great for things like vocals and acoustic music. And they respond to EQ very well. You can tune them with a V-shape and they'll sound good for Rock almost as good as the Grados. I like to tune them to Harman with AutoEQ to make the vocals stand out more. Still one of the better sounding TWS in my collection.

At the time I think I ranked n6p as the best for vocals. But now that AutoEQ the Tevi's to Harman I think it's very close. They both excel at intimate vocals. And I think you'll enjoy either one you pick.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

Stefanmz7 said:


> Ok I checked out the Nuarl N6 and the Lypetek Tevi. And the Lypertek Tevi are marked as audiophile friendly with good mids and highs clear and front sounding vocals(closer to you) which is exactly what I want but the Nuarl N6 also have some nice words for the mids and highs in the reviews(I don't know if I should trust them). So what would you recommend me the Lypertek Tevi the Nuarl N6 or the Nuarl N6 Pro(what's the difference?) at that price for clear natural close to you vocals(intimate vocals) and clear nice sounding not similar highs and NOT booming base?Honestly whichever one you say I am inclined to just go and buy because I am getting desperate at this point about finding good earbuds for my budget. So which one is the best for my criteria?


Take my recommendation with a grain of salt because I'm going off other people's listening notes, but I'd suggest the Nuarl. Seems like I hear more feedback from users on that model than I do the Lypertek.


----------



## Stefanmz7

SemiAudiophile said:


> I don't think you can go wrong with either. Both have very nice "audiophile" type tuning. Good detail, mids/highs.
> 
> I only had the n6p for a short period but I remember them sounding amazing. On certain tracks I found them to be a bit shrill or sibilant though. I think you'll be able to EQ them down to your preference though. I remember the n6p as being intimate sounding as well. Great for vocals.
> 
> ...





miserybeforethemusic said:


> Take my recommendation with a grain of salt because I'm going off other people's listening notes, but I'd suggest the Nuarl. Seems like I hear more feedback from users on that model than I do the Lypertek.


Thanks a lot! However I tried to find them and I found them on ebay (couldn't find them anywhere else) and the cheapest they go for are 105 dollars or more. Both the Nuarl N6 Pro and the Lypertek Tevi? Where can I find them cheaper? Because otherwise I might have to save up. Also I found out Nuarl N6 are 90 dollars, are they as good as the pros or should I stay away from them?


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

Stefanmz7 said:


> Thanks a lot! However I tried to find them and I found them on ebay (couldn't find them anywhere else) and the cheapest they go for are 105 dollars or more. Both the Nuarl N6 Pro and the Lypertek Tevi? Where can I find them cheaper? Because otherwise I might have to save up. Also I found out Nuarl N6 are 90 dollars, are they as good as the pros or should I stay away from them?


I like checking r/AVexchange and the classifieds here if that kinda stuff isn't available via the regular channels.

But I would suggest saving up. The sub-$100 market usually has a lot of fun tunings and, while the Noble Falcon 1 used to be my go-to recommendation for under $100, it doesn't seem to be available on the Noble site anymore. If you can save up for the Falcon 2, I think you'll have a winner. Either that or save up a bit more for the N6P. I know it stinks to save and wait, but I think you'll be happier in the long run.


----------



## DRuM (Jul 1, 2021)

Still searching  for touch control buds with very good bass and long battery life. Apparently the Samsung Galaxy Buds Plus do 11 hours  on a single charge,  touch controls and have good bass, can anyone confirm if they're good and do actually give 11 hours?

Edit: nvm. Apparently the sound isn't that great.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic (Jul 1, 2021)

Stefanmz7 said:


> Thanks a lot! However I tried to find them and I found them on ebay (couldn't find them anywhere else) and the cheapest they go for are 105 dollars or more. Both the Nuarl N6 Pro and the Lypertek Tevi? Where can I find them cheaper? Because otherwise I might have to save up. Also I found out Nuarl N6 are 90 dollars, are they as good as the pros or should I stay away from them?


How about these? Definitely a little more of a bass tilt, but it doesn't crush the staging. Prob the last time they'll be available new...

https://audio46.com/products/sennheiser-cx-400bt-true-wireless

Cliff notes:

Eye-level staging with mild depth and fantastic width for a TWS
Dry, punchy bass (can be adjusted via EQ to go to head-in-a-subwoofer as well)
Mids are the relative stars of the show without being ridiculously in your head
Pleasing treble with no apparent spikes
NOT a Harman tuning


----------



## Stefanmz7 (Jul 1, 2021)

Well I will consider the Sennheisers as well and I will save up a bit. Would you say they are better for my needs than the n6pro?  I mean they are Sennheiser and it looks like the mids and highs are nice but looks like they might be a little bit quieter judging by graphs. What do you think?Or should I just save up and buy the n6pro?


----------



## jant71

Stefanmz7 said:


> Thanks a lot! However I tried to find them and I found them on ebay (couldn't find them anywhere else) and the cheapest they go for are 105 dollars or more. Both the Nuarl N6 Pro and the Lypertek Tevi? Where can I find them cheaper? Because otherwise I might have to save up. Also I found out Nuarl N6 are 90 dollars, are they as good as the pros or should I stay away from them?


If you wait and have access to Amazon Global, the N6 Pro 2 will have a bit nicer look in my opinion, they will have ambient added, and they tout them as the Best Nuarl sound yet seems good for that $160-ish mark. Of course you can't go wrong with the three button controls where you can switch the front and back functions if you want. Ambient will be a double tap of the play button and the controls will be mirrored for single bud use not losing anything. 

Of course Amazon Global and they are out on the 16th or wait more till they show up more locally perhaps but that could be end of summer or in the fall sometime or later. Ebay should not be too much longer after the first release but the price would be inflated as they buy and sell for profit so you won't get the normal price of course.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

Stefanmz7 said:


> Well I will consider the Sennheisers as well and I will save up a bit. Would you say they are better for my needs than the n6pro?  I mean they are Sennheiser and it looks like the mids and highs are nice but looks like they might be a little bit quieter judging by graphs. What do you think?Or should I just save up and buy the n6pro?


I wouldn't say one's better than the other; just different flavors. They need to be turned up a little, but I usually don't listen to anything loud, so my scale is probably way different from most.

As for which to go with? Roll the dice, honestly. Maybe go for the one that gets you more post-sales support?


----------



## DRuM

I think I'm going to get the Creative Outlier Air v2. Seems to tick all boxes for me.  12 hours on a single charge, touch controls,  comfort, and very good SQ. Apparently though they're not as bassy as the V1, have some white noise, and the treble can be sibilant. Is this anyone else's experience? I'd have gone for the V1 but for the apparently  difficult to activate button controls.


----------



## potix

I was wondering what you guys think about these comparisons.


It's clear that "his" tws are foregrounded but I don't think he is trying to sell them. In the second video he says they are out of stock but probably he will start his own product line. 80% enthusiast and 20% seller in my opinion.


----------



## dweaver

Might be a mistake, but with Amazon return policy I decided to try the Galaxy Buds Pro since I am a Samsung S20 user. Worried about fit but that's why I am buying from Amazon so I can return them. I also will getting the Status Between Pro soon. Might do a small shoot out between the 1000XM3, AZ70, Buds Pro, and Between Pro,will have to see how ambitious I feel.

I can't help but think the GBuds Pro might give me better clarity. But time will tell.


----------



## cresny

So after all this do we end up with nothing? 

(sorry could not resist!)


----------



## Canabuc

Surprised my Huawei freebuds pro don't get more love.
They really sound great!
They keep updating the firmware too. Newest feature is a hearing test which once done allows the listener to adjust the transparency nice to better amplify human voices and also improve vocals on audio say for podcast listening etc.

The features are loaded in them to. Full controls great ANC multipoint works well. Better than the Jabra. Wireless charging and case size are great. They have kept me from paying on this forum for some time with only the PI7 and the XM4 tempting me but both have enough drawbacks that I don't feel the urge to get them at this stage. Happy to wait until BLE becomes the new standard.
Between those my Moondrop Aria and my KBear Ks1 I have all my musical needs and wants covered.

That said I see there is a new Edifier coming out with Hi Res certification and great ANC......


----------



## BlazdiqFoods

nekonhime said:


> Just received the kz z3 tws today. I am quite please with the sound ( reduce bass a little will be better in my opinion), passive noise cancelation is quite good. This have aptx LL and atpx adaptive codecs. I recommend buying this over the xm4 ( for sound only)


How's the overall volume? All TWS that i tried apart from UTWS3 has soft volume. Even when i max out, it feels too soft

Are the highs piercing? Does the bass muds out other frequencies?


----------



## nekonhime

BlazdiqFoods said:


> How's the overall volume? All TWS that i tried apart from UTWS3 has soft volume. Even when i max out, it feels too soft
> 
> Are the highs piercing? Does the bass muds out other frequencies?


I dont know how to describe the volume, but the overall sound from the mobile is about 20% of the sound from my laptop ( the maximum) 
I played some game with it (DS 3, code vein) and the overall performance is great with good amount of soundstage, but you will need to eq the bass down


----------



## chinmie

Canabuc said:


> Surprised my Huawei freebuds pro don't get more love.
> They really sound great!
> They keep updating the firmware too. Newest feature is a hearing test which once done allows the listener to adjust the transparency nice to better amplify human voices and also improve vocals on audio say for podcast listening etc.
> 
> ...



does the app has full capabilities when used with other phone beside Huawei? because like the Vivo neo, it stripped down many of the functions like Aptx and controls when using the app on other phones



BlazdiqFoods said:


> How's the overall volume? All TWS that i tried apart from UTWS3 has soft volume. Even when i max out, it feels too soft
> 
> Are the highs piercing? Does the bass muds out other frequencies?



if you're using android, try to disable absolute volume from the developer options. it would usually sort out the low volume problems


----------



## BlazdiqFoods

nekonhime said:


> I dont know how to describe the volume, but the overall sound from the mobile is about 20% of the sound from my laptop ( the maximum)
> I played some game with it (DS 3, code vein) and the overall performance is great with good amount of soundstage, but you will need to eq the bass down


Can you help me compare the TWS volume with wired one on the same mobile device and volume level? Thanks


----------



## samandhi

cresny said:


> So after all this do we end up with nothing?
> 
> (sorry could not resist!)


I had to LOL! Thanks for that.


----------



## nekonhime

BlazdiqFoods said:


> Can you help me compare the TWS volume with wired one on the same mobile device and volume level? Thanks


I stop using wired one after I broke my dm6 and dmg, so I cant. I am sorry. But if you ask me about the headphone then the wired one is much louder and clearer than wireless in my opinion and experience.


----------



## tiagopinto

jant71 said:


> JVC took the XC90T and made it into the XC91T...
> 
> Still 12mm driver and second acoustic chamber with tornado duct inside and the deep bass port. Now they are BT5.2 SBC/AAC/aptX/AptX adaptive and have hybrid ANC with 11 hour battery life(17 hours ANC off). True wireless mirroring, Class 1, and new higher performance LDS antenna. IP55, touch and talk(should auto pause instead of just lowering the volume IMO), and improved mics over the first version. Should still have the bass boost function so they are not just "XX" for the bass crowd only but can give flat or added bass. New case...
> 
> ...that still only gives 1 extra charge so 22 or 34(ANC off) hours with the case. Price seems to stay at around the $200 mark.



Specs wise it sounds wonderful. What about SQ?


----------



## regancipher

Two new ones from me

Tronsmart Apollo Air
Tronsmart Onyx Apex


----------



## Canabuc

chinmie said:


> does the app has full capabilities when used with other phone beside Huawei? because like the Vivo neo, it stripped down many of the functions like Aptx and controls when using the app on other phones



The App as far as I can tell has every feature with the exception of the find my buds feature for which you need a Huawei phone.

I can adjust the type of AnC level and hearthrough as well as modify the controls ,see the battery life ......


----------



## jant71 (Jul 2, 2021)

tiagopinto said:


> Specs wise it sounds wonderful. What about SQ?


Would love the little ear fins that they use on the runners model and Qi, and one more charge with the case, and oh, that the hear through would auto pause instead of lowering the volume. If you want to talk to someone and you are in a video or podcast or even a favorite song you are gonna pause communicate then go back again. Not sure why they only drop the volume. As far as sound they seem to get good reviews and they are based off the wired FX-99X so you can get an idea but they should also have the flat setting so more versatile. Think they are still Gamesky's favorite bass TWS I believe which doesn't mean much lol! Having had the JVC with the Bass mode more than once including the runner TWS it is tastefully done more than many do with a bass mode. In the runners TWS they don't need it but it is just more without muddying up but in that case it is more to help with ambient use. The "XX" it is more like a high performance mode like the Cambridge audio. The whole sound is altered and tries to be bigger more dynamic and even boost the treble. So, even if the bass mode has a bit too much bass for them most people would still choose that mode and EQ down the bass most likely. Plenty of reviews on Amazon and Amazon Japan about the sound if they did not change that. Newer chip so I might say they could be changed a bit and hopefully sound even better.


Hey, want a Nuarl but don't have much cash?? Good news they enter the budget segment at ~$39 with the NA5. Okay not actually a Nuarl but the same company makes them(MTI) but not branded a Nuarl.






BT 5.0, IPX7, SBC and AAC with a 6mm driver so not much there but they are cheap. They do come with the Block Ear+ tips.


----------



## BooleanBones

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Probably the Final, to be honest. There's some stuff I just don't like the Crystal on.


I got some Finals this week. Thanks for the suggestion, loving them on the MTs.


----------



## dweaver

Canabuc said:


> Surprised my Huawei freebuds pro don't get more love.
> They really sound great!
> They keep updating the firmware too. Newest feature is a hearing test which once done allows the listener to adjust the transparency nice to better amplify human voices and also improve vocals on audio say for podcast listening etc.
> 
> ...


They look interesting but I am not a fan of stem style TWS and they are $100 more than I can afford. I got the Galaxy Buds Pro for $187 which is actually a bit higher than I can afford but I decided to take a flyer on anyway. I also worry about all the litigation going on against the company.


----------



## RemoGaggi

Fiil Customer Service for USA?  Does anyone know how to contact FIIL?  My FIIL T1 Lites are great, but the left earbud went dead and it's only about 6 months old.  I've emailed FIIL at Fiilservice@fiil.com and Customer@fiil.com and no response.  
Has anyone had any luck getting warranty help from them?  Thanks!


----------



## Juturna

Are the Sennheiser MTW2’s only good with certain tips or are my ears just really ****ed?

I tried them on today in a hi-fi store and no matter which tips I tried the treble was really jarring and hurt my ears, even when I pulled the those frequencies all the way down in the Sennheiser EQ App. I mean I am sensitive about to harsh treble and sibilance but I wouldn’t think the Sennheisers would be like that.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

Juturna said:


> Are the Sennheiser MTW2’s only good with certain tips or are my ears just really ****ed?
> 
> I tried them on today in a hi-fi store and no matter which tips I tried the treble was really jarring and hurt my ears, even when I pulled the those frequencies all the way down in the Sennheiser EQ App. I mean I am sensitive about to harsh treble and sibilance but I wouldn’t think the Sennheisers would be like that.


Depending on how new that pair was (or how abused they were by other folks who've demoed), it's possible that the driver could be damaged or in need of a little break-in. The CX400BT were a little rough out-of-the-box, too. Most of these DD-based TWS will have a similar problem. Not to open the whole "does burn-in work" can of worms for the umpteenth time, but I'm sure I'm not the only one who's had this experience.

But if you didn't like the sound, I don't blame you. Took a while to grow on me (just like the HD650/6XX did), too. You may need to acknowledge that your ears either prefer balanced with an earlier treble roll-off or there are upper midrange spikes (3k/7k/8k) that you potentially would have to EQ outside of Sennheiser's app, which for the life of me, I can't find an EQ setting that my ears appreciate that doesn't also add in distortion.


----------



## dweaver (Jul 2, 2021)

My Galaxy Buds Pro arrived and without having even actually listened to them I am impressed a bit. Took them out and they paired quickly and wanted to do an update which literally took minutes at most as compared to 15-20 minutes or more for most TWS I have updated in the past. Then I noticed, crap the battery was extremely low on one earbud and less that 45% on the other, so I threw them in the case to charge which is also charging, 30 minutes later I look at the one that was at 15% is now at 69% and the other but is at 84% so these seem to charge extremely fast!

Oh and while I was initially getting the firmware up to date I had these in ear and I was like damn these things have ZERO isolation. Turns out they were in transparent mode so yup they had no isolation, the cool thing was how darn clear transparent mode was! It was almost like I had nothing in my ears.

Jury is out on whether they will work in my ears, the large tips seem to seal OK but a good walk or run will be the real test. If they don't fit that oval shape and lip doesn't look overly inviting to to many 3rd part tips... But lets wait and see...

anyone know if Radio Shack in the US still makes that wide bore hybrid type tips still? It might be and option for these if I can get a hold of come. I can't even remember the name of the darn tip... LOL


----------



## DRuM

I went ahead and ordered the Creative Outlier Air v2 today. £69 from Amazon, probably a week before I get them as they're being dispatched from Europe to UK.  I hope they're good. Reviews are a bit mixed. Some say the SQ is awesome and others don't rate it good at all.


----------



## dweaver

Wow, these just charged up in about 1 hour and that was with the case charging at the same time, the case is just behind the buds with 3% left to charge. Compared to every one TWS I own (WF-1000XM3, Galaxay Buds, MTW version 1, Technics AZ70, etc) this is insanely fast and makes the whole need to hold larger charges on the TWS and the case a whole lot less important. Throw in the ability to piggy back wirelessly off the phone itself or using a wireless charger I don't think battery life will ever be an issue for me with these.

Just about to head out the door for a walk and a good first listen will give some initial impressions when I get back .


----------



## assassin10000

dweaver said:


> anyone know if Radio Shack in the US still makes that wide bore hybrid type tips still? It might be and option for these if I can get a hold of come. I can't even remember the name of the darn tip... LOL


Auvio

www.radioshack.com/products/radioshack-rbasic-silicone-replace-tips-s-m-l


----------



## dweaver

assassin10000 said:


> Auvio
> 
> www.radioshack.com/products/radioshack-rbasic-silicone-replace-tips-s-m-l


awesome, those are the ones!!! thank you


----------



## dweaver

well my first walk was OK, I fiddled a bit getting a snug fit but that may also be due to me being used to a more traditional fitting IEM where these have less pressure on the ear due to the vent feature. Took one phone call and when a guy across the street was using a leaf blower I asked the other person if I sounded OK and whether they could hear the leaf blower and they said it was almost non existent, so I have a feeling these will be good for phone calls out and about.

Signature wise these are a bit more vibrant than the AZ70 while not going into the dark sound of the WF-1000XM3 I would say slightly more bassy than the typical AKG house sound but still very much in the family. I played with the presents and find vibrant is quite nice. I watched a utube video where a guy showed how to access a configurable EQ, so will try that later. 

Once they are set in the ear it is pretty easy to forget about them. I also tried laying on them on my pillow and they actually felt pretty comfortable so if I keep them they might become my sleeping IEM.

The ANC was hardly effected by wind outside which is nice, it actually sounded better than no ANC wind wise but it was also a quiet day for wind so more testing will need to be done. But I am optimistic they are better than most for handling wind. Speaking of wind, I barely noticed it on my phone call as well so happy on that front too as I live in a windy part of the world.


----------



## Juturna

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Depending on how new that pair was (or how abused they were by other folks who've demoed), it's possible that the driver could be damaged or in need of a little break-in. The CX400BT were a little rough out-of-the-box, too. Most of these DD-based TWS will have a similar problem. Not to open the whole "does burn-in work" can of worms for the umpteenth time, but I'm sure I'm not the only one who's had this experience.
> 
> But if you didn't like the sound, I don't blame you. Took a while to grow on me (just like the HD650/6XX did), too. You may need to acknowledge that your ears either prefer balanced with an earlier treble roll-off or there are upper midrange spikes (3k/7k/8k) that you potentially would have to EQ outside of Sennheiser's app, which for the life of me, I can't find an EQ setting that my ears appreciate that doesn't also add in distortion.


Hmm, it could absolutely be either/or in this instance, but I think i'm going to assume that it's me not liking the sound because I don't dare assume it was just the pair and then I end up buying them and they actually sound like that to me. 

To me the treble really just introduced a whole bunch of sibilance that messed with my ears way too much to be enjoyable overall even if I didn't mind the rest of the sound too much, but I think I prefer slightly warmer sound with more bass (but not bloated) with highs and mids that are still detailed and clear, but without any harshness or sibilance.
I think that the Sony XM4's will be more my vibe, but with that said probably not my thing all the way.... but for a lack of other alternatives that i've tried  i'm pretty sure I will at least think they're GOOD even if I don't end up loving them.


----------



## jsmiller58

dweaver said:


> well my first walk was OK, I fiddled a bit getting a snug fit but that may also be due to me being used to a more traditional fitting IEM where these have less pressure on the ear due to the vent feature. Took one phone call and when a guy across the street was using a leaf blower I asked the other person if I sounded OK and whether they could hear the leaf blower and they said it was almost non existent, so I have a feeling these will be good for phone calls out and about.
> 
> Signature wise these are a bit more vibrant than the AZ70 while not going into the dark sound of the WF-1000XM3 I would say slightly more bassy than the typical AKG house sound but still very much in the family. I played with the presents and find vibrant is quite nice. I watched a utube video where a guy showed how to access a configurable EQ, so will try that later.
> 
> ...


These sound (forgive the pun!) great!  Unfortunately while I use an Android phone I don’t have a Samsung phone, so I feel I will miss out on some of the features.  This is what keeps me from buying Airpods as well.


----------



## RainyDog

Dweaver, you'll be surprised how many tips actually fit on those weird oval Bud's Pro nozzles with a bit of perseverance.

I've had Final E's, Sony Hybrids and Spiral Dot++ on mine. I'm currently using Azla Sedna Earfit Shorts which I didn't think fit after initially struggling with a few months ago.

And once any of them are on, they usually stay on, even if it seems they're barely wrapped over the nozzle lips. Good job too as the stock tips are laughably small for me. The large is actually smaller than many other brand medium tips!

Out of the dozen or so sets I've gone through over the past 3 years, gotta say the Bud's Pro are the TWS standard for me when taking into account the complete package of hardware, audio and usability. Especially with a Samsung phone and the scalable codec.

I'd say the tuning is unmatched from an audiophile perspective in the TWS realm as well.


----------



## dweaver

thanks @RainyDog I actually just tried my favorite tips the Sony Hybrid (originals) and they fit great. They seem to impact the magnet strength in the case but looked like they were charging OK. The stock tips were OK but likely to small as the bass improved with the Hybrids. 

Signature wise these are very nice, I think they have some added edge and detail over the AZ70 while having a bit more midbass without falling into the darkness of the 1000XM3. The AZ70 might have a smidge more sub-bass but I don't have a ton of music that need that where as I have a lot Jazz and rock that works better with a bit more midbass.


----------



## TK33

jsmiller58 said:


> These sound (forgive the pun!) great!  Unfortunately while I use an Android phone I don’t have a Samsung phone, so I feel I will miss out on some of the features.  This is what keeps me from buying Airpods as well.


Just curious, what features would you be missing out on? I also don't have any Samsung phones anymore (replaced my S9 with a OnePlus 8T and also have a V60) but don't feel like I am missing anything when using my Galaxy Buds Live.  Their app works on any Android device and switching between devices works fine without disconnecting from the first device (even with my Windows PC).  I think the only thing you would be missing is the scalable codec  but I guess I don't mind because I really only use them for calls.

@dweaver thanks for your impressions on call quality. Didn't realize the Galaxy Buds Pro have the vented design. I've been trying to keep myself from buying a second pair of the Galaxy Buds Live hoping a v2 comes out soon. May give in and get one of the Pros. Have you tried any Zoom or Teams calls with them?

By the way, I got my Galaxy Buds Live back from Samsung and the replacement works much better for Zoom calls.  Guess there was something wrong with my old pair


----------



## dweaver

No Teams or Zoom yet, but we do use Teams in my company so I will try that next week, Windows and Android.


----------



## dweaver

jsmiller58 said:


> These sound (forgive the pun!) great!  Unfortunately while I use an Android phone I don’t have a Samsung phone, so I feel I will miss out on some of the features.  This is what keeps me from buying Airpods as well.


I hear you there! That's why I never seriously considered the Airpods as well. I am fortunate in that I do own a Samsung so I get the full meal deal.

Having said that, while  several of their "features" while are dependent on having a Samsung (and a newer one at that!) several of those feature don't mean a lot to me music wise with the exception of maybe their proprietary codec which I have not compared to AAC yet.

But I get the hesitation for sure.


----------



## whitete

Juturna said:


> Just got a pair of SoundPeats T2 that I ordered last wednesday to tide me over while I make my decision on where I want to spend my money and it's pretty crazy how much you can get for that amount of money, even if they aren't as good as more expensive sets of TW earbuds.
> Paid around $35 with shipping and these buds actually have decent ANC and would probably sound good to most people who aren't sound/earbud enthusiasts. I mean, they actually sound good to me as well, I'm impressed for the price but if someone told me they cost $200 I would probably be hesitant to call it good, or I would at least say that I would expect more for the money.
> 
> Unfortunately the biggest issue for me is the tips/the fit. The earbuds are pretty big and the tips are pretty shallow so it doesn't reach that deep into the ear canal with the stock tips because the earbud itself is so big that it can't be pushed too deep into the ear. Tried using a set of Comply Foam TrueGrip or whatever they're called and it really opened up the sound and made the treble sound sound less recessed (in a good way),but they're also just a liiittle too short. Tried the Sony WF-1000XM3's stock tips in Large and there we have it - perfect fit - but the sound took a bit of a nosedive and started sounding pretty bloated so I went back to the Comply's. The passive noise isolation+ ANC with the Sony eartips honestly wasn't that much weaker than the Sony XM3s themselves and that's a good score for a cheap earbud.
> ...


I’m loving the T2s I got recently also. The battery life is amazing!  Soundpeats is my new obsession.


----------



## cattboy

NeoBuds Pro launching on July 6th.  Got email alert today

https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/edifier-neobuds-pro-the-first-hi-res-anc-earbuds/coming_soon
https://neobudspro.com/


----------



## dweaver (Jul 2, 2021)

Hopefully the battery life improves or I had not actually given these a full charge even though app suggested they were 100% earlier as they only lasted around 4hrs which is a bit on the short side and far less than what they are advertised to get. I never had the volume above 50% either somewhere 40% I believe. Not to concerned at this point since it did seem miraculous that they charged so fast.

So far they sound awesome and I could hardly tell they were in my ears especially after switching the Sony Hybrid tips.

I am noticing a bit of ear fatigue though, so definitely more more mid and treble energy than I am used to.


----------



## jasonb

I'm trying these short, double flange, extremely wide bore tips on my Melomania Touch and I think these are a good pairing. It opens up the mids and highs a bit, which makes the bass not seem as boosted. I'm now using a flatter EQ curve with these too.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

jasonb said:


> I'm trying these short, double flange, extremely wide bore tips on my Melomania Touch and I think these are a good pairing. It opens up the mids and highs a bit, which makes the bass not seem as boosted. I'm now using a flatter EQ curve with these too.


Looks similar to the double-flange tips I get from Noble (hint hint for those looking). Vaguely remember them coming stock with the Sennheiser IE series.


----------



## jasonb

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Looks similar to the double-flange tips I get from Noble (hint hint for those looking). Vaguely remember them coming stock with the Sennheiser IE series.



These I think are old Meelectronics tips.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

jasonb said:


> These I think are old Meelectronics tips.


Well if you need more, at least there's a pretty easy source that doesn't take a month to arrive:

https://www.nobleaudio.com/accessories/p/eartips-set

Fwiw, I ordered an entire set, but that was mainly to replace the pairs I'd lost from my Noble X. I do recommend them just to get a feel for what different IEM tips do for the sound signature overall. $30 ain't too shabby, considering what a lot of aftermarket tips run these days.

Those extra-long foamies really come in handy on pairs that just don't seem to fit.


----------



## jasonb

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Well if you need more, at least there's a pretty easy source that doesn't take a month to arrive:
> 
> https://www.nobleaudio.com/accessories/p/eartips-set
> 
> ...



Those do look just like them. I have 3 pairs of these and I actually just found the order by searching in my Gmail, and I ordered these back in 2012. So 9 years later and they are still going strong, but if I ever need replacements for this style tip, those do look exactly like them. 

I'm still really enjoying the Melomania Touch's. I have only used them inside my apartment, but so far not a single connection hiccup or anything. So far so good.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

jasonb said:


> Those do look just like them. I have 3 pairs of these and I actually just found the order by searching in my Gmail, and I ordered these back in 2012. So 9 years later and they are still going strong, but if I ever need replacements for this style tip, those do look exactly like them.
> 
> I'm still really enjoying the Melomania Touch's. I have only used them inside my apartment, but so far not a single connection hiccup or anything. So far so good.


Awesome! I really wish we'd get that firmware update so I could be as happy with them as you are. Wouldn't have fought to keep them in the conversation so long if there wasn't something unique about 'em, though.

So with the ultra-wide bores, do you get any noticeable presence spikes? I think my findings with the MT (Melomania Touch) were that it, along with the ADV M5, really weren't fans of long tip bores.


----------



## Firevortex

cattboy said:


> NeoBuds Pro launching on July 6th.  Got email alert today
> 
> https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/edifier-neobuds-pro-the-first-hi-res-anc-earbuds/coming_soon
> https://neobudspro.com/




Hi-Res, LDAC, APTX-HD, MQA imo codecs are much less important in the chain.  tuning and driver designs plays a bigger part but its good to see we are getting more 24bit TWE out now.


----------



## dweaver

The ear fatigue on the Galaxy Buds Pro is pretty high, hopefully my ears get used to it or I can figure out an EQ setting that helps.

Other than that, they are highly detailed and I am liking a lot of the features. Will continue to give impressions as I use them.


----------



## SilverEars

dweaver said:


> The ear fatigue on the Galaxy Buds Pro is pretty high, hopefully my ears get used to it or I can figure out an EQ setting that helps.
> 
> Other than that, they are highly detailed and I am liking a lot of the features. Will continue to give impressions as I use them.


Yeah, I thought the treble was a bit much.  If they toned down the treble, I would have liked it.  I like the bass out of aftermarket tips.


----------



## clerkpalmer

Firevortex said:


> Hi-Res, LDAC, APTX-HD, MQA imo codecs are much less important in the chain.  tuning and driver designs plays a bigger part but its good to see we are getting more 24bit TWE out now.


Hate crowdfunding. Don’t love the the form factor either. But watching with interest. Floodgates are opening. Time for a big time audiophile company to offer a tws.


----------



## Devodonaldson

dweaver said:


> My Galaxy Buds Pro arrived and without having even actually listened to them I am impressed a bit. Took them out and they paired quickly and wanted to do an update which literally took minutes at most as compared to 15-20 minutes or more for most TWS I have updated in the past. Then I noticed, crap the battery was extremely low on one earbud and less that 45% on the other, so I threw them in the case to charge which is also charging, 30 minutes later I look at the one that was at 15% is now at 69% and the other but is at 84% so these seem to charge extremely fast!
> 
> Oh and while I was initially getting the firmware up to date I had these in ear and I was like damn these things have ZERO isolation. Turns out they were in transparent mode so yup they had no isolation, the cool thing was how darn clear transparent mode was! It was almost like I had nothing in my ears.
> 
> ...


Accepts most tws tips. I have epro tws tips on mine, I use medium tips with most iems, but these being shorter stem I have large tips, so they seem to stay in much better


----------



## Slater91

Bobbetybob said:


> Feeling the itch for something new, currently looking at the Lypertek Pureplay Z3 2.0, Noble Falcon 2 and Melomania Touch because they're all similarly priced but they all seem to have some downsides.
> 
> I've not really seen many opinions on the Lypertek's, sounds like they might be quite dark sounding? The Falcon 2 there's also not tons of info on so I'm not even sure what the sound signature is. The Melomania Touch sound like they'd be the best sounding but the connectivity issues are offputting. Any thoughts from anyone who's heard any of them?


A few days have passed and I found out something interesting about the Lypertek PurePlay Z3 2.0. When I listen to them with my computer or my Shanling M2X they have a pretty neutral sound profile, with bass that's somewhat elevated but still quite tamed. When I listen to them with my phone withe Lypertek app open, the signature changes drastically and it becomes dark and muddy. If I enable the LDX effect it becomes a wee bit more balanced, but it's still what I might call a "mainstream" tuning rather than one most audiophiles would like.
That's quite interesting as it seems the app purposefully alters the signature, so it turns out that it's actually best not to use it if one wants a more balanced listening experience - quite a weird thing!


----------



## C_Lindbergh

New TWS from LG

https://www.gsmarena.com/lg_tone_fr...up_to_24_hours_of_battery_life-news-49864.php

"They pair over Bluetooth 5.2 with support multi pairing with up to five devices and the Google Fast Pairing and Windows Swift Pair protocols."

I guess that's just ordinary pairing, and nothing like multi-point?


----------



## Juturna (Jul 3, 2021)

C_Lindbergh said:


> New TWS from LG
> 
> https://www.gsmarena.com/lg_tone_fr...up_to_24_hours_of_battery_life-news-49864.php
> 
> ...


I think it’s just that they pop up on your Android phone/windows computer when you keep the earbuds/case close to your device?
Also, I bought the Tone Free FN7’s a month or so back and they ended up having some really bad issues with one of the earbuds cutting out the sound like every couple of seconds and was honestly a mess. Otherwise I actually enjoyed the sound signature, it wasn’t fantastic but pretty clean and decent.


----------



## Juturna

Slater91 said:


> A few days have passed and I found out something interesting about the Lypertek PurePlay Z3 2.0. When I listen to them with my computer or my Shanling M2X they have a pretty neutral sound profile, with bass that's somewhat elevated but still quite tamed. When I listen to them with my phone withe Lypertek app open, the signature changes drastically and it becomes dark and muddy. If I enable the LDX effect it becomes a wee bit more balanced, but it's still what I might call a "mainstream" tuning rather than one most audiophiles would like.
> That's quite interesting as it seems the app purposefully alters the signature, so it turns out that it's actually best not to use it if one wants a more balanced listening experience - quite a weird thing!


So does deleting the app actually make the earbuds sound more neutral again or what? That would be pretty weird, but interesting.

I really want to try the Lyperteks but I’m most likely picking up the Sony XM4’s today so my budget can’t handle another pair of Buds right now… I’m also 50/50 on if I’ll enjoy them. I’m curious about the LDX mode because I know that my LG Tone Free FN7’s (that I had to return because they broke after three days) had what I suspect is a similar mode to that, and it was honestly pretty cool to listen to even if it didn’t always improve the listening experience.


----------



## C_Lindbergh

Juturna said:


> I think it’s just that they pop up on your Android phone/windows computer when you keep the earbuds/case close to your device?


Yes for "Google Fast paring/Windows Pair", but I'm talking about the "multi paring" feature in the text, why would they advertise that unless it's like multipoint?


----------



## Juturna (Jul 3, 2021)

C_Lindbergh said:


> Yes for "Google Fast paring/Windows Pair", but I'm talking about the "multi paring" feature in the text, why would they advertise that unless it's like multipoint?


Yikes, read that a bit too fast, sorry!

Yeah that’s a good question, it has to be multipoint in some shape or form.


----------



## Slater91

Juturna said:


> So does deleting the app actually make the earbuds sound more neutral again or what? That would be pretty weird, but interesting.
> 
> I really want to try the Lyperteks but I’m most likely picking up the Sony XM4’s today so my budget can’t handle another pair of Buds right now… I’m also 50/50 on if I’ll enjoy them. I’m curious about the LDX mode because I know that my LG Tone Free FN7’s (that I had to return because they broke after three days) had what I suspect is a similar mode to that, and it was honestly pretty cool to listen to even if it didn’t always improve the listening experience.


Thanks for your question, it led me to delve deeper into the issue and find that it's actually enabling the LDX mode that causes the issues. Basically, the LDX mode appears to boost both bass and upper mids to give the sound a more V-shaped curve, but when you disable it it still applies some kind of equalisation that makes mids and lower treble extremely recessed and bass quite prominent. It seems like a bug more than an inherent issue with the earphones, the app or the LDX mode. It's probably something they can fix down the road.
The XM4 should be great. I haven't tried them, but a colleague of mine who reviewed them was really enthusiastic about them so I'm also quite curious about them - I'd love to hear your opinion if you buy them.


----------



## TK33

C_Lindbergh said:


> New TWS from LG
> 
> https://www.gsmarena.com/lg_tone_fr...up_to_24_hours_of_battery_life-news-49864.php
> 
> ...


You are probably right but won't know for sure until it comes out.  Usually "multi-pairing" is just a confusing way to say it can be paired with and remember multiple devices (in this case 5 devices) but not necessarily multi-point, which would mean you can stay connected to more devices at the same time.  My guess would be "multi pairing" can make switching between devices easier (i.e. you will be automatically disconnected from the first device if you connect with a second device) but, in my experience, this is also not always the case.  I don't think "multi pairing" could be read to imply "multi-point".


----------



## samandhi (Jul 3, 2021)

C_Lindbergh said:


> Yes for "Google Fast paring/Windows Pair", but I'm talking about the "multi paring" feature in the text, why would they advertise that unless it's like multipoint?


I think it is a word play. I am thinking that it means that it can remember up to 5 devices, so that you don't have to re-pair every time you want to listen from a different device. Pretty much what @TK33 said.


----------



## BlazdiqFoods

TK33 said:


> Just curious, what features would you be missing out on? I also don't have any Samsung phones anymore (replaced my S9 with a OnePlus 8T and also have a V60) but don't feel like I am missing anything when using my Galaxy Buds Live.  Their app works on any Android device and switching between devices works fine without disconnecting from the first device (even with my Windows PC).  I think the only thing you would be missing is the scalable codec  but I guess I don't mind because I really only use them for calls.
> 
> @dweaver thanks for your impressions on call quality. Didn't realize the Galaxy Buds Pro have the vented design. I've been trying to keep myself from buying a second pair of the Galaxy Buds Live hoping a v2 comes out soon. May give in and get one of the Pros. Have you tried any Zoom or Teams calls with them?
> 
> By the way, I got my Galaxy Buds Live back from Samsung and the replacement works much better for Zoom calls.  Guess there was something wrong with my old pair


Hi, does your LG V60 support TWS+ ?
How do check if the tws earbuds supports TWS+?


----------



## TK33

BlazdiqFoods said:


> Hi, does your LG V60 support TWS+ ?
> How do check if the tws earbuds supports TWS+?


Not sure really since I am not sure if any of my TWS actually support TWS+.  Maybe someone else knows.  Think it has the Snapdragon 865.


----------



## SemiAudiophile

Brought my GT220's with me at the airport. Along with the ER4 for music on the plane and wh-1000xm2 for movies. 

I keep forgetting how good the GT220's sound. It's been a while since I've put them on. Spending most of my time with IEMs. I still find these so enjoyable. I'm just jammin and tuned out with my music. I love the Grado sound.


----------



## BlazdiqFoods

TK33 said:


> Not sure really since I am not sure if any of my TWS actually support TWS+.  Maybe someone else knows.  Think it has the Snapdragon 865.


You can find if your phone has it under. Developers Option -> Bluetooth Audio Codecs

Im using lg v30 and planning to upgrade to lg v60


----------



## jant71

Gamesky tackles something unfamiliar(to him)...


----------



## TK33 (Jul 3, 2021)

BlazdiqFoods said:


> You can find if your phone has it under. Developers Option -> Bluetooth Audio Codecs
> 
> Im using lg v30 and planning to upgrade to lg v60


Maybe you are referring to something else? As far as I know, TWS+ is not a codec so it would not be on that list.  There is also a V60 thread where you can ask your questions about the phone.

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/lg-v60-thinq-smartphone.926477/

Edit: if you are wondering whether it works with the higher bitrate codecs, I can confirm it has LDAC, aptX adaptive, aptX HD (if the receiving device is not capable of aptX adaptive), etc.


----------



## gwompki

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Awesome! I really wish we'd get that firmware update so I could be as happy with them as you are. Wouldn't have fought to keep them in the conversation so long if there wasn't something unique about 'em, though.
> 
> So with the ultra-wide bores, do you get any noticeable presence spikes? I think my findings with the MT (Melomania Touch) were that it, along with the ADV M5, really weren't fans of long tip bores.


I sure wish they would show up for sale on Amazon again.  I'm very tempted as I think they will really meet all of my needs.

I have the Devialet Gemini currently and am waiting on a replacement due to a hardware problem.  The Gemini sound amazing and the anc is pretty damn good.  However, my use case for tws is mostly gym use and I think the MT would really meet that need at a much lower price.


----------



## potix (Jul 3, 2021)

cattboy said:


> Thanks.  These might be the only aptX-LL TWS that are out there.
> 
> Battery life still avg ~4 hours for you too?


Tested battery life on PI7, with aptx-hd and 90% (one step below max) volume they lasted 3 hours and 5 minutes. No anc, no ambient mode.
I could write a poem about all the flaws of these earbuds, but sound quality wise they are stellar after eq. I'm playing also with shure aonic50 headphones these days, and to my ears the B&W beat them even though shure are in ldac.


----------



## dweaver

OK, the Buds Pro are excellent sounding but a but fatiguing so playing with the presets and they have one called soft that is just about perfect. So I am bouncing between default and that preset with great results.

I have to say these are the most audiophile like true wireless I have tried. I really like my WF-1000XM3 and the Technics AZ70 but I think these may crown both of those IEM's purely from a sound perspective. They have excellent detail and unlike the old Galaxy Buds don't come off as flat and a bit lifeless.

Are they perfect? No but neither are any of the other IEM's I own but they deserve to be talked about in the same league as the others. 

The ANC is a step down from Sony and Technics though but is serviceable. The pass through on these better than both those models.

Comfort wise with Sony hybrids these are comfy and isolating. So they did require 3rd party tips, but so do the other 2 models as I prefer Sony Hybrids in both those models as well. I can sleep in these which is awesome! I also feel they will be my new running IEM as they handle wind as good as or better than the other ones and definitely feel more secure in ear and they have much better water resistance.

I really struggle with all the big reviews that insist these sound less than the other big brands. This is either straight signature bias or deliberate down playing of the sound quality because these are cheaper than other name brand products so are automatically assumes less than versus their actual sound.

For anyone who is put off from the darker sound of Sony but want similar bells and whistles feature wise these should be in the short list to try unless maximum ANC is the person's number one requirement versus sound signature.


----------



## smith

Heads up folks Sennieser Uk are running a 50% off promotion on selected products for 24 hours. Link below- 

https://en-uk.sennheiser.com/euro-2021-promo

I have ordered the Momentun 2 for £139 😊


----------



## samandhi

smith said:


> Heads up folks Sennieser Uk are running a 50% off promotion on selected products for 24 hours. Link below-
> 
> https://en-uk.sennheiser.com/euro-2021-promo
> 
> I have ordered the Momentun 2 for £139 😊


Nice! But, that is UP to 50%. If none of them score, you only get 20% off....


----------



## smith

Yep ...and the good thing about last night was that England scored 4 goals😊


----------



## C_Lindbergh

smith said:


> Heads up folks Sennieser Uk are running a 50% off promotion on selected products for 24 hours. Link below-
> 
> https://en-uk.sennheiser.com/euro-2021-promo
> 
> I have ordered the Momentun 2 for £139 😊


Holy hell, I really envy you now


----------



## tiagopinto

smith said:


> Heads up folks Sennieser Uk are running a 50% off promotion on selected products for 24 hours. Link below-
> 
> https://en-uk.sennheiser.com/euro-2021-promo
> 
> I have ordered the Momentun 2 for £139 😊



UK only it seems...


----------



## Taz777

Great find @smith! Just ordered the MTW2 as well.


----------



## TWSMan

smith said:


> Heads up folks Sennieser Uk are running a 50% off promotion on selected products for 24 hours. Link below-
> 
> https://en-uk.sennheiser.com/euro-2021-promo
> 
> I have ordered the Momentun 2 for £139 😊



You can select the ones that include TIDAL HIFI for the same price:






Even though it says 6 months free, when you use the code that you receive on the order confirmation, you actually get 360 days so the expiry is 28/06/2022


----------



## Juturna

Wow, good price for those. Even though I’m not sure I’d enjoy the sound signature I’d buy them for that price, but alas, I’m not in the UK.


----------



## krenzler

Where does it say UK only? Reading the Terms and Conditions further down the page I don't see it (could be I'm blind)?


----------



## krenzler

Also - I don't see that Tidal offer in the drop-down menu - could it be country specific?


----------



## krenzler

Ah, OK when you go to payment you can only choose UK/Ireland. But I can go through PayPal instead but probably not a good idea though.


----------



## Juturna

krenzler said:


> Ah, OK when you go to payment you can only choose UK/Ireland. But I can go through PayPal instead but probably not a good idea though.


Yeah I wouldn’t dare risk that and having to suffer through having to wait to get money refunded and whatnot. Apparently they ship from Germany so it shouldn’t be a problem getting them shipped to another country but I think the discount is meant for UK only so idk 🤷🏻‍♂️


----------



## potix

I'm having a problem on az70w. One of the buds is playing at a lower volume, about 6db. A factory reset didn't solve the problem. Does everyone else ever experienced this?


----------



## Taz777

smith said:


> Yep ...and the good thing about last night was that England scored 4 goals😊


Indeed, the way the discount is calculated is very interesting. They may not have banked on so many goals being scored!



> The football tournament is here! It makes you shiver, it makes you scream. But most of all: It makes you save money!
> 
> Save a minimum of 20% discount on select premium headphones on the day the English, Scottish or Welsh team plays. Score even more discounts if the team scores goals!
> 
> ...



I don't follow football at all (being more of a cricket aficionado) but in this instance: 'C'mon England!!!' and, 'It's coming home!!!'.


----------



## TWSMan

For some of those lucky ones based in Ireland and using the Sennheiser Ireland site, the CX400BT white ones can be purchased for 49.50 euros using the GOAL21 voucher with 50% off due to last night's England match:


----------



## Audiosolace

gwompki said:


> I sure wish they would show up for sale on Amazon again.  I'm very tempted as I think they will really meet all of my needs.
> 
> I have the Devialet Gemini currently and am waiting on a replacement due to a hardware problem.  The Gemini sound amazing and the anc is pretty damn good.  However, my use case for tws is mostly gym use and I think the MT would really meet that need at a much lower price.


It would be interesting to hear what the Devialet Gemini sounds like considering they are speaker specialists! Have recently reviewed another French brand's wireless release - the Earsonics Aero - can be seen here.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

potix said:


> I'm having a problem on az70w. One of the buds is playing at a lower volume, about 6db. A factory reset didn't solve the problem. Does everyone else ever experienced this?


I personally haven't, but that usually is what I'll go off to tell me if I have a good seal. If you're confident that's fine, next thing I would move onto is checking the nozzle screen for debris.

The only time I have BT-related channel imbalances on any pair is usually when I go from one-bud active listening immediately into two without transitioning through a pause. Can't remember which specific pairs have done that to me, but the AZ70W wasn't one of them. Think the ADVs, MT, and NFP did, though.


TWSMan said:


> For some of those lucky ones based in Ireland and using the Sennheiser Ireland site, the CX400BT white ones can be purchased for 49.50 euros using the GOAL21 voucher with 50% off due to last night's England match:


They were a deal at $100. They're an impulse buy at that price. Nice!


----------



## zeebee45

Ok, I've narrowed my under $150 pair: for a blind overseas purchase from the UK so no return option if fit/sound is an issue: *Noble Falcon 2* or *Lypertek PurePlay Z3 2.0   *

Which pair would you go with based off of sound and comfort taking highest priority? 

What I care about most are: non-harsh treble (can't stomach any brash treble or even mid-range belting), and size (I have small ears)  

Was considering the JBLs as @miserybeforethemusic highly recommended 'em but for random unknown reasons, I'm way more excited about the two above options  

Thanks !! !! !!


----------



## potix

miserybeforethemusic said:


> I personally haven't, but that usually is what I'll go off to tell me if I have a good seal. If you're confident that's fine, next thing I would move onto is checking the nozzle screen for debris.
> 
> The only time I have BT-related channel imbalances on any pair is usually when I go from one-bud active listening immediately into two without transitioning through a pause. Can't remember which specific pairs have done that to me, but the AZ70W wasn't one of them. Think the ADVs, MT, and NFP did, though.


The seal is good and not a transitional problem. I was thinking too could be wax related, and I had tried kindly blowing on the nozzle screen but didn't work. Right after your post I tried with a solder sucker . The first time sorted out the problem, after a moment was there again. After some other suctions now it's 2.5db of imbalance.
Guys don't do this at home 
Anyway I am a bit sad, will try with a return.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

zeebee45 said:


> Ok, I've narrowed my under $150 pair: for a blind overseas purchase from the UK so no return option if fit/sound is an issue: *Noble Falcon 2* or *Lypertek PurePlay Z3 2.0   *
> 
> Which pair would you go with based off of sound and comfort taking highest priority?
> 
> ...


No worries if there are options more appealing to you than the JBL. I think you've got two great choices there. I'll give a nod to the Falcon, but haven't played with the Lypertek and couldn't tell you how it fared, relatively speaking.

But if it were a no-fuss experience that didn't break the bank, I think you could seriously consider the CX400BT at gangbusters pricing and have something that would probably impress you more sonically than the Noble or Lypertek might.


----------



## erockg

zeebee45 said:


> Ok, I've narrowed my under $150 pair: for a blind overseas purchase from the UK so no return option if fit/sound is an issue: *Noble Falcon 2* or *Lypertek PurePlay Z3 2.0   *
> 
> Which pair would you go with based off of sound and comfort taking highest priority?
> 
> ...


Put the Lypertek Pureplay Z7's on your list too.  They are very very good.  Highly recommend.


----------



## dweaver (Jul 4, 2021)

zeebee45 said:


> Ok, I've narrowed my under $150 pair: for a blind overseas purchase from the UK so no return option if fit/sound is an issue: *Noble Falcon 2* or *Lypertek PurePlay Z3 2.0   *
> 
> Which pair would you go with based off of sound and comfort taking highest priority?
> 
> ...


If you have small ears the CX400BT might not work fit wise. The Noble and Lypertek both appears to be smaller and have similar shapes. The Lypertek makes its claim to fame based on great sound at affordable prices, the Noble is more boutique pricing oriented, given that, the Lypertek may have more bang for the buck.

I am starting to see the Samsung Galaxy Buds Pro drop in price and they might be a good option if your an android phone user and even better option if your a Samsung phone user. I was unwilling to try at the initial price point but decided to try them when they were down to $185 Cad whis is less than $150 US.

I can actually wear them to bed and sleep on my side wearing them. With most other TWS I would have to just lay on my back.

Sound wise they are very balanced but I am noticing some ear fatigue but I also have been using the WF-1000XM3 which is very dark signature in comparison. To help I am using a preset called soft and it takes the treble down just a smidge. Having said this I do not find these sibilant or shouty in any way.


----------



## GeekGirl

My $20 MPOW Flames finally died and I decided to get something serious. I got the TOZO T5 as a temporary stop-gap until I decided what I wanted. The T5 has some bass, but it's peaked at the high end. For $35, it's worth keeping as a backup. This is for daily use while walking / jogging, so I just need something to keep me occupied.

After a lot of research and reading the comments in this thread, I settled on the NUARL N6 Pro. Nice. In addition to having better SQ over the N6, the N6 Pro comes with SpinFit silicone eartips - the N6 does not. The small SpinFit eartips fit me and there was no problem keeping the earphones locked in. The trick is to make sure the ear loop is tucked in correctly.

I did a quick fit check with the stock eartips and there was no comparison. I quickly reinstalled the SpinFit eartips and am not going back.

I don't have any better IEMs to compare the SQ. All I can say is that they seem decent. I'm sure I can do better, but not at the $120 price point. My intention was not to get the "latest and greatest", but to get an earphone that's a solid performer with a proven track record. The N6 pro fit the bill.

*Confession:* Against all advice and reviews, I purchased an Aftershokz Aeropex bone-conducting headphone. Why?? The technology appealed to me and I had to hear this for myself. No bass whatsoever and voice sounded like a tin can. My TOZO T5 had more bass. I returned it the next day. However, I would recommend it to someone who can't use IEMs - such as a medical restriction (wearing a hearing aid) or where IEMs are not allowed in competitive sporting events. It's the best of the bunch. I had no problem getting it to fit with eyeglasses.


----------



## Caipirina (Jul 4, 2021)

I am having a really weird balance issue with my Bose QC Earbuds ... and I am wondering if anyone here has any smart thoughts on this:

First I thought the left bud is busted completely, I had to shift the balance all the way to the left to hear anything ... and then I found out that it is actually only the volume control for the left that's not working anymore ... when I put overall volume down, the left buds are still putting out sound ... then i slide slowly up .. at around 30% I get balanced sound ... slide up further and the right side becomes more and more dominant!

I checked if the was an app update / new firmware (nope for both) and I did the 30 sec reset ...  no changes ...

What's maddening is that it kinda works, thus really hard to explain to the shop ppl here ... I still have warranty, but I imagine enforcing this here will be a medium sized nightmare ...

Any thoughts?

(EDIT) Could have also googled first .. apparently this is a not so uncommon issue ...  adding this to the list of 'bugs that earbuds in this price range should not have' ... i will try now the one guy's strategy of 'resetting until it works' ...


----------



## samandhi

Caipirina said:


> I am having a really weird balance issue with my Bose QC Earbuds ... and I am wondering if anyone here has any smart thoughts on this:
> 
> First I thought the left bud is busted completely, I had to shift the balance all the way to the left to hear anything ... and then I found out that it is actually only the volume control for the left that's not working anymore ... when I put overall volume down, the left buds are still putting out sound ... then i slide slowly up .. at around 30% I get balanced sound ... slide up further and the right side becomes more and more dominant!
> 
> ...


Also, try resetting and pairing it with a totally different device (if you can). That should totally take the phone/device or app out of the equation (though I suspect it isn't the device anyhow).


----------



## Caipirina

samandhi said:


> Also, try resetting and pairing it with a totally different device (if you can). That should totally take the phone/device or app out of the equation (though I suspect it isn't the device anyhow).



Yeah, that would have been my next try .. and then deep clean my ears to take those out of the equation  

Anyways, that guy on reddit had the right idea, I did a couple of more resets .. and it is amazing how differently the buds reacted each time they came back out of hypersleep .. different, never heard signal tones ... well .. and in the end .. all good now .. 

Just annoying that such a high price item has such issue .. another that I needed to fix with reset is 'staying connected, not charging, playing music while in closed case'

But when they work properly, they are easily my fav, even for running


----------



## Caipirina (Jul 5, 2021)

Warming up to the Anker Soundcore Liberty Air 2 Pro Max Plus XR .. darn those names ... well, those stem based ANC ones, top on list for ANC on scarbir's budget ANC list ...
I had reservations and thought about reselling because of fit issues that can only be fixed with tips that than make the buds not charge in the case properly ... but I think as long as I place them carefully and squeeze the lid down a bit, it's actually ok ..
One thing I keep noticing and I know this is a NO NO for many here, sound signature seems to change quite some when ANC is activated, I find it actually more engaging .. like the 'loudness' button on hifi stereos from yesteryear 
And thanks to the extensive EQ options I have much to play ..
The sound issues I have with the stems scraping along my beard .. well, after I managed to get a 'yeard' done, I shall lop it off in the next few days (need new passport pics : )  and problem will be gone ...

and darn .. I am wondering 'what next'? I have some local cash burning a hole in my pocket .. and there are some options ...
but i really don't need any more TWS !!! Or any other 'put music in my ears' thing   

I wish they had the galaxy buds pro or anything on sale here, but they keep full price until forever ..


----------



## Taz777

After the incredible 24-hour 50% off sale from Sennheiser UK yesterday, both of the wireless headphones that I ordered are on back order! I imagine Sennheiser was overwhelmed with orders.

I did notice that the headphones eligible for the discount were ones that are probably due to be replaced with newer versions soon, but that's fine given the discount available.


----------



## TYATYA

potix said:


> The seal is good and not a transitional problem. I was thinking too could be wax related, and I had tried kindly blowing on the nozzle screen but didn't work. Right after your post I tried with a solder sucker . The first time sorted out the problem, after a moment was there again. After some other suctions now it's 2.5db of imbalance.
> Guys don't do this at home
> Anyway I am a bit sad, will try with a return.


If confirmed nothing was narowing the sound tube, not a source relate (L/R panning), you can try to drop it.
My unit is ok from the begining even after some drop off during using. I mean dropping might not affect nor effect but give it a try


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

Happy belated 4th to everybody! Took some time away from the forum to spend it with the family. Hope everybody else managed to do the same 

Can't share many details, but the long-awaited beta build for the MT app (and firmware) are in my hands. Please don't ask me for specifics as I have gotten confirmation that I can't quite share them until these are closer to release. The key word is there are quite a few improvements. When I get clearance to share the changelog, I have no problem doing so. I have also been providing feedback for every issue I come across, no matter how trivial or small.




What I _can _say is that I'm back on the stock tips and it's pretty darn enjoyable, if that makes any bit of difference. Still have a few fitment issues, but those are related more to the tip material/shape than anything to do with what happens in the software realm.

Hang in there, MT users. Not much longer now.


----------



## samandhi

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Happy belated 4th to everybody! Took some time away from the forum to spend it with the family. Hope everybody else managed to do the same
> 
> Can't share many details, but the long-awaited beta build for the MT app (and firmware) are in my hands. Please don't ask me for specifics as I have gotten confirmation that I can't quite share them until these are closer to release. The key word is there are quite a few improvements. When I get clearance to share the changelog, I have no problem doing so. I have also been providing feedback for every issue I come across, no matter how trivial or small.
> 
> ...


Same to you buddy! So, what is the new color; what changes are made; how will it iron my clothes in the morning? Oh you said DON'T ask specifics?! OK! 

In all seriousness though, I am pretty excited about any changes they make. Thus far they have managed to make a lot of changes, and they have all been good, and have not really stepped backwards (knock on wood). I am very proud of them (as a company) that they have stuck with (and stood behind) their product. I still think the next one that comes out from them might just be masterful, with all the knowledge they seem to be gaining from this experience. One can hope anyhow.


----------



## C_Lindbergh (Jul 5, 2021)

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Happy belated 4th to everybody! Took some time away from the forum to spend it with the family. Hope everybody else managed to do the same
> 
> Can't share many details, but the long-awaited beta build for the MT app (and firmware) are in my hands. Please don't ask me for specifics as I have gotten confirmation that I can't quite share them until these are closer to release. The key word is there are quite a few improvements. When I get clearance to share the changelog, I have no problem doing so. I have also been providing feedback for every issue I come across, no matter how trivial or small.
> 
> ...


Personally I hope for:

- Fully customizable touch controls 
- Option to pause music when enabling ambient mode
- connect tab where you can manage your pairings
- better auditable feedback when using touch controls


----------



## samandhi

C_Lindbergh said:


> Personally I hope for:
> 
> - Fully customizable touch controls
> *- Option to pause music when enabling ambient mode*
> ...


Ooh! I like that thought. Very good idea!


----------



## C_Lindbergh

samandhi said:


> Ooh! I like that thought. Very good idea!


Basically I want all features of the Sennheiser app  

It's the most well rounded TWS app imo.


----------



## jasonb

So I'm still having issues with every non foam tip I try with the Melomania Touch's. If I sit completely still and don't move my head or jaw they are fine, but every time I'm not a statue the sound changes. It's like a pressure in my ears. I guess I need to stick with foam tips on these. Foam tips are fine, but just aren't quite as quick to insert so they aren't quite as convenient, but whatever I guess. 

These foam tips are supposed to arrive tomorrow from Amazon. https://www.amazon.com/dp/B093262CQ...abc_39J11J7R8QKM3W8BF57A?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1

Never heard of this brand before but they are short so they should still fit the charging case fine, and look to be a wide bore. So hopefully they sound good and are comfortable and last a decent amount of time.


----------



## dweaver

First time on train with Galaxy Buds Pro and pretty satisfied. The ANC is slightly less effective with the Public Announcement than the WF-1000XM3 which in a weird way is good as this means I hear important notices.

The sound signature in these is really growing on me, I am now mostly just using the default without ear fatigue. A great option for any AKG lovers.

I get how many will prefer Sony but for anyone put off by the Sony sound this might be just the ticket for them. The bass is definitely tighter with less warmth in the midrange and decent treble extension without becoming sibilant or harsh. The sound stage is a bit more intimate though due to the added level of detail.


----------



## zeebee45

miserybeforethemusic said:


> No worries if there are options more appealing to you than the JBL. I think you've got two great choices there. I'll give a nod to the Falcon, but haven't played with the Lypertek and couldn't tell you how it fared, relatively speaking.
> 
> But if it were a no-fuss experience that didn't break the bank, I think you could seriously consider the CX400BT at gangbusters pricing and have something that would probably impress you more sonically than the Noble or Lypertek might.


The CX400BT or new CX buds were what I had initially landed on, but I saw reviews mentioning they can be pretty uncomfortable for people with small ears 

Thank you always; you've been my true wireless mentor!


----------



## zeebee45

erockg said:


> Put the Lypertek Pureplay Z7's on your list too.  They are very very good.  Highly recommend.


Thank you! Will look at these as well before deciding


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

zeebee45 said:


> The CX400BT or new CX buds were what I had initially landed on, but I saw reviews mentioning they can be pretty uncomfortable for people with small ears
> 
> Thank you always; you've been my true wireless mentor!


Oh good call on the size part. My ears are pretty average, so it's not something I tend to think about. I did fit-test them on my 13-year old and he didn't seem to complain, so you might still be in luck.

And my pleasure!


----------



## Darkestred

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Happy belated 4th to everybody! Took some time away from the forum to spend it with the family. Hope everybody else managed to do the same
> 
> Can't share many details, but the long-awaited beta build for the MT app (and firmware) are in my hands. Please don't ask me for specifics as I have gotten confirmation that I can't quite share them until these are closer to release. The key word is there are quite a few improvements. When I get clearance to share the changelog, I have no problem doing so. I have also been providing feedback for every issue I come across, no matter how trivial or small.
> 
> ...



I'm a mess...i guess.

Thank you for hard work.


----------



## BlazdiqFoods

cattboy said:


> NeoBuds Pro launching on July 6th.  Got email alert today
> 
> https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/edifier-neobuds-pro-the-first-hi-res-anc-earbuds/coming_soon
> https://neobudspro.com/


What chipset are they using? 

Asked them on bookface but of coz got ignored. 😅


----------



## samandhi (Jul 5, 2021)

BlazdiqFoods said:


> What chipset are they using?
> 
> Asked them on bookface but of coz got ignored. 😅


I could not find the chipset being used, which usually means the manufacturer doesn't want to release it (think Bose).

Also, be cautious if purchasing them blindly?! It has support for LHDC (the open licensed equivalent/competitor of LDAC), and LDAC, but there seems to be a catch. It doesn't come with LDAC out of the box, and is said to be available later as a FW download. And, unless their app forces and/or contains the LHDC codec/driver for android, there are only a VERY small few devices that support it (have it baked into the android system). There are about 4 music apps that have the driver included with it, but they are VERY poorly implemented, or don't even work at all (I have tested them all because my Deva headphones have that codec). Needless to say, I could never get it to work properly, and gave up and went back to LDAC. This means that in the beginning, you will only have SBC available to use.

Edit: As an update, it appears that LHDC is baked into the android system for android 10 and up; however, it appears that nobody has bothered to implement it thus far except maybe Huawei, and Xioami phones. There is a product finder for LHDC HERE, but it doesn't seem updated. So, if you have one of these devices that DO support it, you are golden with these TWS.


----------



## samandhi

Also, for anyone interested, here is a list of the apps I mentioned earlier, should you HAVE a device that has LHDC and want to try it out (hopefully it works better for you than it did with my Deva and Note 9):

Savitech's Hi-Res BT Player
 FiiO Music
HIFIMAN Music
DA&T Audio
You can find a couple of them on Google Play. Others can be found from APK Pure, or some other store for android. 

Peace!


----------



## dweaver (Jul 6, 2021)

Well after having the tips fall off a few times using the Sony Hybrid on the Galaxy Bud Pro I hunted through my tips and found one with a thicker harder rubber core that seems to hook better on the oval stem. It's a wider mouth tip so has opened up the sound a bit more. I think it might be the AZ70 original tip which I didn't like on the AZ70 but am finding fine on on the Galaxy Bud Pro, funny how that works. I also went back to the original large oval tips and do find them better fitting this time around but am unsure it will stay that way when moving about.

I still have a pair of Status Between Pro coming in at some point but I have to say the Galaxy Bud Pro is ticking off all the boxes in what I want in a TWS at this point. I need to see how they work in a 5K run so maybe will be able to do that tomorrow as the final test.


----------



## samandhi

dweaver said:


> Well after having the tips fall off a few times using the Sony Hybrid on the Galaxy Bud Pro I hunted through my tips and found one with a thicker harder rubber core that seems to hook better on the oval stem. It's a wider mouth tip so has opened up the sound a bit more. I think it might be the AZ70 original tip which I didn't like on the AZ70 but am finding fine on on the Galaxy Bud Pro, funny how that works. I also went back to the original large oval tips and do find them better fitting this time around but am unsure it will stay that way when moving about.
> 
> I still have a pair of Status Between Pro coming in at some point but I have to say the Galaxy Bud Pro is ticking off all the boxes in what I want in a TWS at this point. I need to see how they work in a 5K run so maybe will be able to do that tomorrow as the final test.


LOL I have seen that a ton. Tips that I absolutely hate on one bud (for fit, or sound, or both), I use on another one for kicks, and find that I love them on it....


----------



## cattboy

BlazdiqFoods said:


> What chipset are they using?
> 
> Asked them on bookface but of coz got ignored. 😅


Release for indiegogo is on the 7th so maybe we'll find out then.



samandhi said:


> It has support for LHDC


I'm waiting for more adoption myself, thanks for all the useful information.

LE Audio (LC3 codec) and LHDC need some time to mature until properly ready for en masse adoption


----------



## samandhi

cattboy said:


> I'm waiting for more adoption myself, thanks for all the useful information.
> 
> LE Audio (LC3 codec) and LHDC need some time to mature until properly ready for en masse adoption


The only problem is that LHDC has been around since 2018... Hopefully it is starting to gain some traction now that some headphones, and some TWS are starting to adopt it for use (and why wouldn't they, it is not a pay-for license like LDAC).


----------



## tiagopinto

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Happy belated 4th to everybody! Took some time away from the forum to spend it with the family. Hope everybody else managed to do the same
> 
> Can't share many details, but the long-awaited beta build for the MT app (and firmware) are in my hands. Please don't ask me for specifics as I have gotten confirmation that I can't quite share them until these are closer to release. The key word is there are quite a few improvements. When I get clearance to share the changelog, I have no problem doing so. I have also been providing feedback for every issue I come across, no matter how trivial or small.
> 
> ...



You teaser, you.

(thank you for your service to us all)



samandhi said:


> Same to you buddy! So, what is the new color; what changes are made; how will it iron my clothes in the morning? Oh you said DON'T ask specifics?! OK!
> 
> In all seriousness though, I am pretty excited about any changes they make. Thus far they have managed to make a lot of changes, and they have all been good, and have not really stepped backwards (knock on wood). I am very proud of them (as a company) that they have stuck with (and stood behind) their product. I still think the next one that comes out from them might just be masterful, with all the knowledge they seem to be gaining from this experience. One can hope anyhow.



Mirrors my thoughts about CA. I was listening to the new Stereolab album this morning, no EQ, and I wish they could know how much fun I was having. 
Hope they keep supporting the MT and I agree they hold all the tools for a fabulous reprise.


----------



## jant71

samandhi said:


> I could not find the chipset being used, which usually means the manufacturer doesn't want to release it (think Bose).
> 
> Also, be cautious if purchasing them blindly?! It has support for LHDC (the open licensed equivalent/competitor of LDAC), and LDAC, but there seems to be a catch. It doesn't come with LDAC out of the box, and is said to be available later as a FW download. And, unless their app forces and/or contains the LHDC codec/driver for android, there are only a VERY small few devices that support it (have it baked into the android system). There are about 4 music apps that have the driver included with it, but they are VERY poorly implemented, or don't even work at all (I have tested them all because my Deva headphones have that codec). Needless to say, I could never get it to work properly, and gave up and went back to LDAC. This means that in the beginning, you will only have SBC available to use.
> 
> Edit: As an update, it appears that LHDC is baked into the android system for android 10 and up; however, it appears that nobody has bothered to implement it thus far except maybe Huawei, and Xioami phones. There is a product finder for LHDC HERE, but it doesn't seem updated. So, if you have one of these devices that DO support it, you are golden with these TWS.


This design we have seen them use it twice and both time Edifier left off volume control. Heck, Edifier is pretty sweet in budget but when they go up higher price they kinda start to disappoint. I don't think anyone will be golden with these. Not until they are proven. Edifier hasn't done the best SQ and while they seem to be trying a harder they are not a some blind buy to me either 



cattboy said:


> Release for indiegogo is on the 7th so maybe we'll find out then.
> 
> 
> I'm waiting for more adoption myself, thanks for all the useful information.
> ...


Those two are different and I don't hold out much hope for LHDC. LC3 is an open standard and that is kinda scary. There was SBC XQ but why did we never get an optimized SBC codec? I fear Qualcomm and Apple may have had a hand trying to protect AAC and aptX against higher quality SBC and MP3 as BT codecs. I really wonder If LC3+ will really come along as a HQ codec or will it face push back. LC3 is not LDAC or LHDC and so far the listening tests say it is hard to tell it from SBC as long as both are at higher bit rate 192 and above. LC3 is still the base codec and will be much more efficient but is better than SBC but not HD, LDAC, LHDC or better bitrate codecs. Correct me but LC3 will be up to 345 bitrate and above that will be LC3+.


----------



## tiagopinto

C_Lindbergh said:


> Personally I hope for:
> 
> - Fully customizable touch controls
> - Option to pause music when enabling ambient mode
> ...



Very well observed. 



samandhi said:


> Ooh! I like that thought. Very good idea!



Amazing, right? As an option it would be very nice.


----------



## tiagopinto

jasonb said:


> So I'm still having issues with every non foam tip I try with the Melomania Touch's. If I sit completely still and don't move my head or jaw they are fine, but every time I'm not a statue the sound changes. It's like a pressure in my ears. I guess I need to stick with foam tips on these. Foam tips are fine, but just aren't quite as quick to insert so they aren't quite as convenient, but whatever I guess.
> 
> These foam tips are supposed to arrive tomorrow from Amazon. https://www.amazon.com/dp/B093262CQ...abc_39J11J7R8QKM3W8BF57A?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1
> 
> Never heard of this brand before but they are short so they should still fit the charging case fine, and look to be a wide bore. So hopefully they sound good and are comfortable and last a decent amount of time.



I’ve never tried different tips with these. The only time I experience a seal breach is mostly when I yawn or some major facial movement like that. Otherwise I have a very snug and secure fit. But all ears are different. I guess you’ve played around with different size fins as well? In my case I use Large tips and fins and I know for a fact that when I yawn, my facial muscles and my jaw cause the fins to be pushed further against the concha and cause the seal breach. But it’s a very minor issue for me. Hope you can work it out soon and enjoy these with no issues.


----------



## jant71

Remember Havit which was pretty well regarded. They are now HAKII it seems and the latest seems to be pretty good for a sports bud outside of no ambient...


----------



## dweaver (Jul 6, 2021)

I managed to stretch the Fender Xelastic type tip shaped like a volcano onto the Galaxy Bud Pro Stem.

It fits very snug and offers a unique fit and feel. More like the original tip because it rides up the IEM housing so much but with a better seal because it rides up the housing so much. If any one has the old Aurisonic or a Fender IEM with these tips, I suggest giving them a try. Tricky to get on but worth the effort.


----------



## jant71

dweaver said:


> I managed to stretch the Fender Xelastic type tip shaped like a volcano onto the Galaxy Bud Pro Stem.
> 
> It fits very snug and offers a unique fit and feel. More like the original tip because it rides up the IEM housing so much but with a better seal because it rides up the housing so much. If any one has the old Aurisonic or a Fender IEM with these tips, I suggest giving them a try. Tricky to get on but worth the effort.



Those came with the Fender wireless earphones but were not good for the already bassy sound of those. Didn't keep them though but they could certainly come in handy for TWS these days.


This is up today I see... https://translate.google.com/transl...age=en_US&qid=1625580973&s=electronics&sr=1-8
About $165 with the Global Priority is not bad.


----------



## clerkpalmer

Preordered the edifier on indiegogo. For 90 bucks why they hell not? Hybrid setup plus ANC. Looks decent.


----------



## Juturna (Jul 6, 2021)

For people who have heard the Melomania Touch and the Sony WF-1000XM4's, which sounds better in your opinion?
Just watching reviews of earbuds is unfortunately a bit puzzling sometimes, I feel like it's hard to scale their scores accurately across different price segments.
I've been looking at people here saying that the MT's sound absolutely fantastic, I've seen reviewers say that the SoundPeats H1's sound amazing, but it's always compared mostly with buds that are the same price.

I'm currently weighing my options for you who saw hat I was trying to decide between the Sony's and the Sennheisers awhile back. I've ruled out the Sennheisers because the sound did not fit me, and now I'm trying to weigh my options, and if I want to buy the Sony's when they get back in stock, or if I should be slightly more... cheap.
So my options are looking kinda like this right now (some of the prices are estimates since I just crudely converted them to USD from the local currency):

Sony XM4's: $280
Bose QC Buds: $100 (quite a steal, open box but in mint condition, however the massive case makes my pp soft)
Lypertek Pureplay Z3 $89
Melomania Touch $129
Status Between Pro $99
Soundpeats H1 $69
Edifier Neobuds Pro $69-ish (early bird price, these are coming out in july/august sometime, new hi-res certified buds from Edifier with ANC etc)

Sound quality is priority number one, but I do care about call quality, convenience, noise cancellation (be it active or passive, preferrably ANC but not necessary), case size, good connection and wireless charging,
Sound is so subjective that it's difficult to just say "that is better", but I can only try to rely on other peoples opinions here. Really want a pair that I can be satisfied with in the long run (i mean, a year or maybe two?) that would give me that pure listening joy, but I feel like buying buds without ANC feels less than good at this stage even though I know that passive noise cancellation can be almost as good.
But I could also go for two cheaper earbuds on the list if they end up going for $200 and under. Also open to other suggestions. 

I usually like a versatile sound because I'm going to listen to music that requires PHAT BASS like electronic genres, pop, but i'm also going to listen to jazz classics and ambient music where good separation and soundstage is important, and just about anything else you can imagine, death metal, indie-folk, r&b, hip-hop, trap, emo, you name it, basically.


----------



## Juturna

clerkpalmer said:


> Preordered the edifier on indiegogo. For 90 bucks why they hell not? Hybrid setup plus ANC. Looks decent.


Was thinking about those too, I saw them up for even $79 still though. I'm a bit confused as to why they use Bluetooth 5.0 at this point though, feels a bit weird?


----------



## clerkpalmer

Juturna said:


> Was thinking about those too, I saw them up for even $79 still though. I'm a bit confused as to why they use Bluetooth 5.0 at this point though, feels a bit weird?


LDAC too. Not sure BT 5.0 v 5.2 would dissuade me.


----------



## jant71

Edifier not trying hard enough. They want to stay more budget so older 5.0 chips but that means lower battery life. If you want to include ANC which hits the battery and some kind of amp chips which will hit battery. They could make them a higher price tier give them the better ANC, better drivers, and chip in them. Perhap LDAC instead of LHDC. Ever since that first ANC model didn't do well for them at $119 they seem to stay at the $79 thing but that gets you cost cutting that shows in the final product. Should be okay but doubt it will be redefine the $79 price point or make people say the XM4 is not overpriced cause the Edifier is close for so much less. I would like to see them go balls to the wall $199 and see  what they can do.


----------



## dweaver

Juturna said:


> For people who have heard the Melomania Touch and the Sony WF-1000XM4's, which sounds better in your opinion?
> Just watching reviews of earbuds is unfortunately a bit puzzling sometimes, I feel like it's hard to scale their scores accurately across different price segments.
> I've been looking at people here saying that the MT's sound absolutely fantastic, I've seen reviewers say that the SoundPeats H1's sound amazing, but it's always compared mostly with buds that are the same price.
> 
> ...


what type of phone are you using?


----------



## Juturna

dweaver said:


> what type of phone are you using?


iPhone 11, as it is right now. Might jump back to Android later on but as of right now it’s all about the AAC life for me.


----------



## clerkpalmer

clerkpalmer said:


> LDAC too. Not sure BT 5.0 v 5.2 would dissuade me.


Didnt read carefully. Not LDAC. Bummer. Cancelled.


----------



## BlazdiqFoods

clerkpalmer said:


> Didnt read carefully. Not LDAC. Bummer. Cancelled.


😂😂 That was quick


----------



## dweaver (Jul 6, 2021)

Juturna said:


> iPhone 11, as it is right now. Might jump back to Android later on but as of right now it’s all about the AAC life for me.



In that case your list pretty solid, I will be hearing the Status Between Pro in the next couple of weeks so will be able to give feedback on that one. Unfortunately I won't be able to help with the rest other than discuss based on my observations and reading. The XM4 might be the best if you like a darker sound but your paying the early adopter premium to get it. The Bose at $100 is one heck of steal though, I would jump on that one as you should be able to flip it with no loss at that price point if you really don't like the sound or the case. The next best bet is probably the Melomania Touch as it seems to be less problematic with all of the updates to its firmware.

You might also want to consider the Technics AZ70 if you can get them on sale as they offer decent ANC and pretty rock solid and have a good 6hr battery life, but they may also have a battery drain issue on the case (something that seems pretty slow as I have not experienced it much in my use).

The Samsung Galaxy Buds Pro would be nice except they appear to not be supported by the Samsung app so I would give them a hard pass even though I really like their sound signature.

If you can live without ANC you might want to consider the Sennheiser CX400BT if you want a bargain, or  buy the new model just called CX True Wireless if you want better battery life and some basic water protection. I also read somewhere that Sennheiser was offering a big promotion through Ireland or something to that effect which might allow you to get the MTW2 at a better price.


----------



## BlazdiqFoods

Which one do you guys recommend? 
TRN T300
-2BA+1DD
-QCC3046
-BT5.2
-AAC/SBC/APTX
Not sure what aptx hd? Adaptive? is avalable for this tws. Firmware update?
http://www.trn-hifi.com/index.php?m=content&c=index&a=show&catid=8&id=133

KZ Z3
- 1BA+1DD
-QCC3040
-BT5.2
-AptX Adaptive
https://kz-audio.com/kz-z3.html

Soundpeats H1
-1BA+1DD
-QCC3040
-BT5.2
-AAC/SBC/AptX Adaptive
https://www.soundpeatsaudio.com/en/h1.html


----------



## Thesonofkrypton

Juturna said:


> For people who have heard the Melomania Touch and the Sony WF-1000XM4's, which sounds better in your opinion?
> Just watching reviews of earbuds is unfortunately a bit puzzling sometimes, I feel like it's hard to scale their scores accurately across different price segments.
> I've been looking at people here saying that the MT's sound absolutely fantastic, I've seen reviewers say that the SoundPeats H1's sound amazing, but it's always compared mostly with buds that are the same price.
> 
> ...


I own the XM4 and have had the Touch previously, and this is not going to really help but with this hobby, end of the day, there is no better only what you like lol
Both are good, with these kind of matters it's an unfortunate case of having to try things yourself and decide with your own set of ears rather than take an opinion off a guy off the Internet . Having said that, the XM4 has it all, feature and sound wise for me for on the go. If you don't need the best ANC on the market and solid connection, then Touch is excellent sounding alternative that doesn't have the bass authority of the XM4 but keeps up in other areas.  I'm just a guy off the internet so don't take my word for it whatever you do!

My personal 2 cents is don't put too much money into the wireless side, you only need one or two pairs.  Instead save and invest in a good wired set up.


----------



## nekonhime

BlazdiqFoods said:


> Which one do you guys recommend?
> TRN T300
> -2BA+1DD
> -QCC3046
> ...


I would recommend to take the soundpeats
Trn have limited time use (4h)
Kz z3 have bass overpowered the overall sound so you need to eq the bass down.


----------



## d3myz

Been a while since I was here. Been haunting the thread for a bit looking for people's impressions about the XM4's. I purchased a pair last week and compared them to the 85t's I've been rocking everyday. Here are my thoughts comparing them to the 85t's. 

Sony's have slightly better ANC and almost identical with memory foam tips on the 85ts. Transparency mode is def louder on the Sony and the Sony's have much better sound quality and better eq, but honestly I wasn't blown away, I also felt the XM3 sounded better. Here's the rub, The App is still buggy and I had Severe issues connecting to it. The right ear bud wouldn't power on unless I took it out, then placed it back in the case. ( this is after the most recent firmware update and I think I factory reset the buds 6 times) Even after this I still had problems connecting to the app in iOS. Battery life was awesome, comfort was good although I noticed after about 2 days the memory foam tips included started to show signs of wear. Case is nice and small, but the lid became loose after 3 days. No Mulit-Point, Seriously? Last and weirdest thing is when connected to my windows PC's The voice had a strange compressed sound while on zoom or teams. This didn't occur in stereo playback via bluetooth, but the same issue is present in my XM3's. Overall I sent them back. for $275, I'm not dealing with all that hassle. I mostly use my TWS' for audiobooks, Zoom and work calls and noise canceling when i'm in the car with my 4 year old twins who are loud as hell. I bought my 85t's for $115 from Jabra last month when they had a sale and put some memory foam tips on them. They have been a fantastic all around TWS for me. I've also been using the Echo Buds 2 and after the most recent update, i'm happy to say, they are pretty fantastic for the prime day price of $99. Sorry, Sony. I'd def. purchase at $100-135 bucks as i'm fairly certain the ones I got were just defective. 

Anyone else have any recommendations for a good all around TWS? I'm eyeing the MTW2's, CA MT, but I've been out of the loop for a min.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

d3myz said:


> Anyone else have any recommendations for a good all around TWS? I'm eyeing the MTW2's, CA MT, but I've been out of the loop for a min.


As an all-rounder, I honestly thought the 85t had it. They're certainly not the sonic best, but they do so much of the day-to-day stuff right that I tend to overlook it. If it's an alternative you're after, though, possibly the CA MT if you're looking to stay in the bassier realm or possibly find a set of UE FITS if they go back on crazy sale (seems to be happening a lot lately) if you're after something closer to a reference-level signature. I do have and like the CX400BT, but they're pretty much a sound-only TWS as far as I'm concerned, so they don't make muster for me.

Hopefully that helps!


----------



## nekonhime

d3myz said:


> Been a while since I was here. Been haunting the thread for a bit looking for people's impressions about the XM4's. I purchased a pair last week and compared them to the 85t's I've been rocking everyday. Here are my thoughts comparing them to the 85t's.
> 
> Sony's have slightly better ANC and almost identical with memory foam tips on the 85ts. Transparency mode is def louder on the Sony and the Sony's have much better sound quality and better eq, but honestly I wasn't blown away, I also felt the XM3 sounded better. Here's the rub, The App is still buggy and I had Severe issues connecting to it. The right ear bud wouldn't power on unless I took it out, then placed it back in the case. ( this is after the most recent firmware update and I think I factory reset the buds 6 times) Even after this I still had problems connecting to the app in iOS. Battery life was awesome, comfort was good although I noticed after about 2 days the memory foam tips included started to show signs of wear. Case is nice and small, but the lid became loose after 3 days. No Mulit-Point, Seriously? Last and weirdest thing is when connected to my windows PC's The voice had a strange compressed sound while on zoom or teams. This didn't occur in stereo playback via bluetooth, but the same issue is present in my XM3's. Overall I sent them back. for $275, I'm not dealing with all that hassle. I mostly use my TWS' for audiobooks, Zoom and work calls and noise canceling when i'm in the car with my 4 year old twins who are loud as hell. I bought my 85t's for $115 from Jabra last month when they had a sale and put some memory foam tips on them. They have been a fantastic all around TWS for me. I've also been using the Echo Buds 2 and after the most recent update, i'm happy to say, they are pretty fantastic for the prime day price of $99. Sorry, Sony. I'd def. purchase at $100-135 bucks as i'm fairly certain the ones I got were just defective.
> 
> Anyone else have any recommendations for a good all around TWS? I'm eyeing the MTW2's, CA MT, but I've been out of the loop for a min.


Same with me, I prefer the xm3 better than the xm4 with better pricing. Also, I think the xm4 have much tighter sound space than the xm3 and the call quality is just meh.


----------



## d3myz

miserybeforethemusic said:


> As an all-rounder, I honestly thought the 85t had it. They're certainly not the sonic best, but they do so much of the day-to-day stuff right that I tend to overlook it. If it's an alternative you're after, though, possibly the CA MT if you're looking to stay in the bassier realm or possibly find a set of UE FITS if they go back on crazy sale (seems to be happening a lot lately) if you're after something closer to a reference-level signature. I do have and like the CX400BT, but they're pretty much a sound-only TWS as far as I'm concerned, so they don't make muster for me.
> 
> Hopefully that helps!


Thanks, Man. I was actually looking at the CX400bt's, think i'll pick up the CA MT's and check them out.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

d3myz said:


> Thanks, Man. I was actually looking at the CX400bt's, think i'll pick up the CA MT's and check them out.


They're both great, just in different ways. I just think you'll find the omission of all the features that went into the MTW2 is just too much to bear. If it at least had HearThrough, I think they'd be far better off. Call quality's more than respectable (I get complimented on it over the one in my car, at least).

Tuning is where they really differ. The CX400BT is a warm mid-focused pair that's capable of tons of slam. The CA MT plays a little more fair across genres, comparatively speaking. If you stay in the CX's wheelhouse, you'll be handsomely rewarded, though. I'd consider the CX a good _alternate _pair to own, just not a daily driver. The MT are probably more suited for your needs.

Don't discount the Melomania 1+ if you don't need the touch controls, though. I think that one will be a bigger winner ergonomically and potentially cheaper.


----------



## jasonb

tiagopinto said:


> I’ve never tried different tips with these. The only time I experience a seal breach is mostly when I yawn or some major facial movement like that. Otherwise I have a very snug and secure fit. But all ears are different. I guess you’ve played around with different size fins as well? In my case I use Large tips and fins and I know for a fact that when I yawn, my facial muscles and my jaw cause the fins to be pushed further against the concha and cause the seal breach. But it’s a very minor issue for me. Hope you can work it out soon and enjoy these with no issues.



What I'm feeling/hearing isn't the seal breaching because it's not loosing bass. Instead, every time I move a muscle the sound becomes muffled, like there is a vacuum seal and there is nowhere for the pressure to go. It's strange and I've never experienced this before. I've tried the small fins and the medium with the same result. The best result for me is just to use memory foam tips with these. Maybe if I had a short enough silicone/rubber tip that may work as well. The Azla Crystals might work, but I'm not going to spend $30 right now to find out. 

These seem like a good replacement for the Lypertek Tevi foam tips I've been using on my MT's. I got them today and they fit the MT's, and they fit in the case since they are super short. I listened with them for about 2 minutes and they sound good, just like the Tevi foam tips. More listening with them will come shortly. 

I am still absolutely in love with the MT's though. I have no problem using foam tips on these, and they isolate even better than the stock tips which is good since they don't have ANC. I listened to them last night for 2 full albums and loved every minute.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

jasonb said:


> every time I move a muscle the sound becomes muffled, like there is a vacuum seal and there is nowhere for the pressure to go.


This sounds like you're trying to insert them too much, bud. I don't think there should be any resting pressure for these things at the tip end. Seems like they leave that to the tragus fin.


jasonb said:


> These seem like a good replacement for the Lypertek Tevi foam tips I've been using on my MT's. I got them today and they fit the MT's, and they fit in the case since they are super short. I listened with them for about 2 minutes and they sound good, just like the Tevi foam tips. More listening with them will come shortly.


Interesting find and smart thinking. I'd agree that it seems the MT prefers broader tips. Have you had a chance to try the Crystals yet?


jasonb said:


> I am still absolutely in love with the MT's though. I have no problem using foam tips on these, and they isolate even better than the stock tips which is good since they don't have ANC. I listened to them last night for 2 full albums and loved every minute.


Awesome! I think the MT's tuning is a lot closer to what "fun" is than what a lot of IEM tunings lead you to think it _should_ be.


----------



## Juturna

dweaver said:


> In that case your list pretty solid, I will be hearing the Status Between Pro in the next couple of weeks so will be able to give feedback on that one. Unfortunately I won't be able to help with the rest other than discuss based on my observations and reading. The XM4 might be the best if you like a darker sound but your paying the early adopter premium to get it. The Bose at $100 is one heck of steal though, I would jump on that one as you should be able to flip it with no loss at that price point if you really don't like the sound or the case. The next best bet is probably the Melomania Touch as it seems to be less problematic with all of the updates to its firmware.
> 
> You might also want to consider the Technics AZ70 if you can get them on sale as they offer decent ANC and pretty rock solid and have a good 6hr battery life, but they may also have a battery drain issue on the case (something that seems pretty slow as I have not experienced it much in my use).
> 
> ...


Thank you for that response, that was exactly the type of input I wanted.  Yeah let us all know what the Status Between Pro's sound like when you get them, I know a lot of youtubers try to talk them up a lot and it's sometimes difficult to fully get if they're being genuine or if they're just paid to say good things about them, you know? 
I'm not 100% sure if I prefer dark or bright sound signatures. I don't like it when the treble is too recessed so it feels like you lose detail, but I also don't like when it gets too sibilant and introduce harshness, i'm very sensitive to that type of high-end. I think the Sony's will be great, but I didn't like the XM3's that much so I'm not sure.
Also heard the Melomania seems to be getting better after the firmware updates. 

Yeah I saw that they were on sale for $140-ish here and it seemed like a good deal, but then I read that they were pretty lacking in the low-end which will be a bummer for me with maybe 70% of the music I listen to. Of course lack of low-end doesn't mean no low-end but I still don't think I would love them based on what i've heard.
Bose could be cool but it could also be a dud, I remember liking their Soundsport Frees a couple of years back except for the hideous case and buds... and even though they certainly look better now, it's not by much honestly. I think they're probably worth it for the price, but I just feel like that case just... I mean i'm not a guy who carries a bag or backpack, and the bulge in my front pocket from an earbuds case is NOT the bulge that I wish was bigger! 
If they sound excellent I would absolutely take it, but most reviews seem to suggest middle-of-the-road (but decent) sound pretty much throughout the entire frequency range with those. 

Yeah, any sort of Samsung earbuds are a no-go to the lack of app support, otherwise I probably would've gotten a pair a long time ago, seems to have very decent mic quality and overall decent sound signature at least with one of the presets. 

Yeah, I just feel uncertain about Sennheiser right now because I tested the MTW2 in store and they sounded very weird and harsh to my ears. I mentioned it a couple pages back. Could be just since I tried it with tips that weren't stock, but I don't dare buying them without trying them.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

Juturna said:


> Thank you for that response, that was exactly the type of input I wanted.  Yeah let us all know what the Status Between Pro's sound like when you get them, I know a lot of youtubers try to talk them up a lot and it's sometimes difficult to fully get if they're being genuine or if they're just paid to say good things about them, you know?
> I'm not 100% sure if I prefer dark or bright sound signatures. I don't like it when the treble is too recessed so it feels like you lose detail, but I also don't like when it gets too sibilant and introduce harshness, i'm very sensitive to that type of high-end. I think the Sony's will be great, but I didn't like the XM3's that much so I'm not sure.
> Also heard the Melomania seems to be getting better after the firmware updates.


I would only recommend the Between Pro if you can get them at the current Indiegogo pricing (which I think is currently $100), but once the price jumps again or they've moved on to sales directly through their website, I would call them a hard pass.

Don't get me wrong; they're great tonally and if you don't care much about technicalities, I think they'll do you just fine. They're otherwise just pretty 2-dimensional when it comes to sound and I found myself barely reaching for them because they didn't have as much life as other pairs in the collection. Just a little too far behind the curve in comparison for me to make it a solid recommendation.

As for the firmware updates, I promised my Cambridge rep that I wouldn't share any details of what was being tested. That being said, it's an ongoing process and when I have information I can share, I will certainly do so.


----------



## Juturna

Thesonofkrypton said:


> I own the XM4 and have had the Touch previously, and this is not going to really help but with this hobby, end of the day, there is no better only what you like lol
> Both are good, with these kind of matters it's an unfortunate case of having to try things yourself and decide with your own set of ears rather than take an opinion off a guy off the Internet . Having said that, the XM4 has it all, feature and sound wise for me for on the go. If you don't need the best ANC on the market and solid connection, then Touch is excellent sounding alternative that doesn't have the bass authority of the XM4 but keeps up in other areas.  I'm just a guy off the internet so don't take my word for it whatever you do!
> 
> My personal 2 cents is don't put too much money into the wireless side, you only need one or two pairs.  Instead save and invest in a good wired set up.


Yeah haha, as I've mentioned before it's difficult to try them when you can't return them, so if you don't educate yourself you might end up buying something that isn't worth the money, and you might not get anywhere near the money you spent back if you sell them. 

I know wired is where the best sound quality is but I'm honestly not looking to go back to wired again, possibly ever except for studio headphones when i'm producing/mixing something, that's about it. I'm just a picky listener without being an audiophile, I know when things sound good to my ears but the sheer convenience of true wireless outweigh the hit you take in SQ.


----------



## jasonb

miserybeforethemusic said:


> This sounds like you're trying to insert them too much, bud. I don't think there should be any resting pressure for these things at the tip end. Seems like they leave that to the tragus fin.
> 
> Interesting find and smart thinking. I'd agree that it seems the MT prefers broader tips. Have you had a chance to try the Crystals yet?
> 
> Awesome! I think the MT's tuning is a lot closer to what "fun" is than what a lot of IEM tunings lead you to think it _should_ be.


I could be inserting too deep, or it could be my ear shape, IDK. But the foams work fine. I have not tried the Crystals, but I'm not ready to potentially spend another $30 on tips that may no work for me with these either. I've had about a half a dozen different true wireless IEM's and plenty of wired IEM's and never had this same problem, but whatever. These work fine with foam tips.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

jasonb said:


> I could be inserting too deep, or it could be my ear shape, IDK. But the foams work fine. I have not tried the Crystals, but I'm not ready to potentially spend another $30 on tips that may no work for me with these either. I've had about a half a dozen different true wireless IEM's and plenty of wired IEM's and never had this same problem, but whatever. These work fine with foam tips.


No worries if you're good with the foam, then. I know it seems really counterintuitive based on the MT's shape, but I get the best fit with them when I'm not trying to go for any insertion depth at all; I just get the tip so it rests on my ear canal. I can move all over the place, chew, etc and the sound doesn't change. What I think is happening in your case is the tip is too far in, either pinching or rolling over inside the ear canal and you're hearing that plugging effect as a pressure build-up/no sound.

Of course that's only if you feel like continuing to figure out fit. If you're happy with where you're at with the foamies, I don't blame you. Fwiw, I still run them on the stock tips pretty often and have constant issues with seal. It isn't just you. Luckily, I've found tips that work for me as well, but it's definitely going to be a sticking point for prospective buyers. Might as well factor in a little extra in case you need 'em.


----------



## nekonhime

Right now, I just wish kz release a improved version of kz e10 with anc, better battery life, more codecs, able to stream in 990kph/ 32 bits/96 khz. It been a year since the last time I try the e10 and it still blow me away, but the lagging issue is just like playing gacha lol.


----------



## dweaver

Juturna said:


> Thank you for that response, that was exactly the type of input I wanted.  Yeah let us all know what the Status Between Pro's sound like when you get them, I know a lot of youtubers try to talk them up a lot and it's sometimes difficult to fully get if they're being genuine or if they're just paid to say good things about them, you know?
> I'm not 100% sure if I prefer dark or bright sound signatures. I don't like it when the treble is too recessed so it feels like you lose detail, but I also don't like when it gets too sibilant and introduce harshness, i'm very sensitive to that type of high-end. I think the Sony's will be great, but I didn't like the XM3's that much so I'm not sure.
> Also heard the Melomania seems to be getting better after the firmware updates.
> 
> ...


Hmmm, if you didn't like the XM3 sound wise, everything I read suggests the sound is a bit darker and treble even less pronounced on the XM4 which is one of the reasons aside from price I am struggling with the new model. If you do decide on trying the XM4 I would make sure it's from a company that allows returns like Amazon.


----------



## Thesonofkrypton (Jul 6, 2021)

dweaver said:


> Hmmm, if you didn't like the XM3 sound wise, everything I read suggests the sound is a bit darker and treble even less pronounced on the XM4 which is one of the reasons aside from price I am struggling with the new model. If you do decide on trying the XM4 I would make sure it's from a company that allows returns like Amazon.



I had the XM3 since they were released and only recently transferred over to the XM4 and I can tell you that the treble is an improvement over the XM3.  I would say the XM4 has more authoritative bass over the XM3 so if you're not a lover of bass then stick with the XM3.  Have given it a mix of most genres and I found it particularly good for EDM, pop and classical music especially since it adds weight to those instruments like double bass and cello adding some nice richness to those warm low pitches.

I would say having owned the XM3 and the XM4, that it's a great improvement across the board but at the moment with the price difference, it's better to go with XM3 if you're working with a budget.  If not, then XM4 is currently top shelf stuff in this realm.

I'd add that if you live in a climate where you get a lot of wind and you use them outdoors a lot, then the wind reduction feature in the XM4 is worth the price alone lol 
It was one major annoyance of mine with the XM3 that I'm glad Sony addressed.


----------



## Juturna

Thesonofkrypton said:


> I had the XM3 since they were released and only recently transferred over to the XM4 and I can tell you that the treble is an improvement over the XM3.  I would say the XM4 has more authoritative bass over the XM3 so if you're not a lover of bass then stick with the XM3.  Have given it a mix of most genres and I found it particularly good for EDM, pop and classical music especially since it adds weight to those instruments like double bass and cello adding some nice richness to those warm low pitches.
> 
> I would say having owned the XM3 and the XM4, that it's a great improvement across the board but at the moment with the price difference, it's better to go with XM3 if you're working with a budget.  If not, then XM4 is currently top shelf stuff in this realm.


I’ve already had the XM3’s, and I wasn’t convinced by the sound but I think that was due to the poor fit I had with them, something that seems to be drastically improved with the XM4’s.
I can say that I’m never going back to the XM3’s anyway, I honestly despised everything with them except for the sound, that still wasn’t fantastic but it was definitely GOOD those first minutes before the buds had slid out enough for the seal to be broken.


----------



## BooleanBones

I think the MTs handle a wider variety of music better than the XM4s. You can throw a bit more bassy music at them and it still sounds proper where as the XM4s don't quite reach the same level. From a feature stand point, I love the XM4s as they do it all and still sound good. I kept them both  which doesn't help your decision. If you are going to be using them for calls/conference calls at all, I feel the Sony's are built a bit better for this. I don't like the fingers in ear effect and like to have transparency when talking on calls and the MTs don't allow that as the transparency mode repurposes the mic (which is used for the call) from what I have read so far.


----------



## dweaver

Thesonofkrypton said:


> I had the XM3 since they were released and only recently transferred over to the XM4 and I can tell you that the treble is an improvement over the XM3.  I would say the XM4 has more authoritative bass over the XM3 so if you're not a lover of bass then stick with the XM3.  Have given it a mix of most genres and I found it particularly good for EDM, pop and classical music especially since it adds weight to those instruments like double bass and cello adding some nice richness to those warm low pitches.
> 
> I would say having owned the XM3 and the XM4, that it's a great improvement across the board but at the moment with the price difference, it's better to go with XM3 if you're working with a budget.  If not, then XM4 is currently top shelf stuff in this realm.
> 
> ...


Thanks for chiming in with real world experience! Much better than 2nd hand news. I am really glad to hear your take too as the comments I saw saying the treble was even less than the XM3 definitely had me worried.


----------



## bronco1015

Dregur said:


> Only the right earbud can be independent. However the noise canceling state carries over as far as I can tell.


I almost hate to reply to this so many days after the original post, because i'm betting a lot of people have shared what I'm about to. But just incase that isn't true, @Dregur it might depend on what phone you're using these with. Even on older phones with QC SOCs on the 800 series prior to 845, as well as other 6 and 7 series, I've found that if I have a True Wireless model that is otherwise capable of being used in mono, i can pair each individually, and use one at a time. When both are out, the handoff is generally seamless. The phone stays paired with the TWE that was out first, and worst case scenario I've had to resume the audio. Can't speak to how this might work with an IOS Device or on Android phones with mediaTek SOCs.
Regarding the WF XM4, @DigDub both TWEs pair to the phone at the same time. If one is placed in the case then the audio usually and I'd say 90-95% of the time, doesn't stop playing from the other TWE. I've been using these pretty consistently for 12 days now, and have switched to mono with each often, and never had the audio stop. But after reading your post, I wanted to see what would happen if I kept swapping them wrapidly. only then did the audio stop and I had to resume it FWIW.
I switched them in and out probably 20 times, and the audio stopped twice. But in more normal use cases, as I mentioned, switching from one to the other while keeping one in has been smooth sailing.
Also, the WF XM4 remember the state they're in, so if I leave them in Ambient, put them both away and pull them out later, they're in Ambient. if I place the left TWE in the case while in ANC then the right TWE seems to switch from trying to use ANC to passive. i can hear it cycling, but it doesn't go in to Ambient mode. But if I've previously had Ambient mode on while both were out, then ambient remains active with either TWE being used in mono.


----------



## bronco1015

i


BooleanBones said:


> After today, I can confirm that the XM4s do not sound as good on the receiving end of calls/conferencing as the other TWS I have (B&W and Air Pods Pro). Not a big deal to me as I will not be using them for that generally, but if that is important to anyone. They said it still sounded clear enough, just not as nice as the others..That's basically in line with what I expected, i've only made a few calls with them and i decided I need to put them through the paces more because I was talking to someone on the phone the other day while laying in a recliner, wearing the XM4 and i turned up my TV to a decently high volume that many other TWEs and headphones easily pick up. The person on the other end said they could hear me the whole time no issues and couldn't hear the TV at all. This is someone who will let me know immediately if some background noise is loud so I was pretty surprised.


----------



## Caipirina

dweaver said:


> I managed to stretch the Fender Xelastic type tip shaped like a volcano onto the Galaxy Bud Pro Stem.
> 
> It fits very snug and offers a unique fit and feel. More like the original tip because it rides up the IEM housing so much but with a better seal because it rides up the housing so much. If any one has the old Aurisonic or a Fender IEM with these tips, I suggest giving them a try. Tricky to get on but worth the effort.


May I digress .. is that the Logitech K380 keyboard? How you liking it?


----------



## Caipirina

Juturna said:


> For people who have heard the Melomania Touch and the Sony WF-1000XM4's, which sounds better in your opinion?
> Just watching reviews of earbuds is unfortunately a bit puzzling sometimes, I feel like it's hard to scale their scores accurately across different price segments.
> I've been looking at people here saying that the MT's sound absolutely fantastic, I've seen reviewers say that the SoundPeats H1's sound amazing, but it's always compared mostly with buds that are the same price.
> 
> ...


just saying that the Bose QC buds have become my Go-To buds ... but I would not trust my 50+ old ears on sound quality .. i DO like the bose house sound, but I imagine that some here find it less refined ... but for 100$ .. that is really a steal!!!


----------



## Tommy C

Caipirina said:


> just saying that the Bose QC buds have become my Go-To buds ... but I would not trust my 50+ old ears on sound quality .. i DO like the bose house sound, but I imagine that some here find it less refined ... but for 100$ .. that is really a steal!!!


Where did you get them for a $100?


----------



## Caipirina

Tommy C said:


> Where did you get them for a $100?


not me, seems original poster has access locally (Sweden!) to some open box deal


----------



## jant71

JBL budget $50 Wave 100...




I do like lidless designs. They should have one that can do both be left open or close if you want. Maybe just as simple as a pen cap snapping on the other end of the pen a cap can snap on the other side and be out of the way and be storage but also be there to go on for rain or whatever you want to protect from. We certainly do need more ingenuity in case designs.


Hmmm, now the N6 Pro2 is 10% off making it $150 shipped to pre-order and price protection if it were to drop any more. I doubt it but good to know you will get the adjustment automatically if it drops. On Amazon.jp the 10% says it will be in effect till October. In my cart and probably will complete my purchase on my first Nuarl. Gamesky actual came in handy with his Nuarl showing the mics are pretty damn good so I know the ambient will be pretty natural.


----------



## Juturna (Jul 7, 2021)

I wonder if there's a new Sennheiser Momentum TW coming out soon? One store here just put up the MTW2 for half off, costing around $135, that's one hell of a deal honestly. Considering that they also were fine with selling them for a big discount with the whole football/soccer in England/UK (don't remember if it was just england or not), there seems to be something brewing, right?


----------



## jant71 (Jul 7, 2021)

Juturna said:


> I wonder if there's a new Sennheiser Momentum TW coming out soon? One store here just put up the MTW2 for half off, costing around $135, that's one hell of a deal honestly. Considering that they also were fine with selling them for a big discount with the whole football/soccer in England/UK (don't remember if it was just england or not), there seems to be something brewing, right?


Easy check with FCC documents that would show this.




Just the CX so nothing is close.

The thing is they have sold the consumer brand to Sonova and the sales are most likely for a cash influx. Hopefully that bodes well for future Senn models having a bit better pricing. Lucid is doing this with Westone all of a sudden the Japan version of the W30 is for sale at $149. Lets price to sell, sell the old stuff off and make some money for the new direction. Unfortunately while, like you said, things are brewing the changeover may make something new take longer. Keep an eye for filings but might not have anything new till CES as things get sorted.


----------



## Juturna (Jul 7, 2021)

jant71 said:


> Easy check with FCC documents that would show this.
> 
> 
> Just the CX so nothing is close.
> ...


Fair point! They actually changed the price back to $269 just now so the price was literally just for a few hours at the very most.

I actually snagged a pair for the discounted price and literally 15 minutes later the price has gone back up, so i'm thinking that it was accidentally discounted or something, but I reserved them for the price they were up for, so i'm going to pick them up and if I don't like them I can just sell them for more than I bought them for (not saying I will, but I COULD)!


----------



## dweaver (Jul 7, 2021)

Caipirina said:


> May I digress .. is that the Logitech K380 keyboard? How you liking it?


Your close, the keyboard is the K780, I use it in conjunction with the M720 and it allows me to switch between two side by side computers for work. Its not perfect as the mouse is supposed to slide between machines by simply traversing them like 2 monitors and the keyboard is then supposed to follow which does not always work but even though I get frustrated it has improved my efficiency a ton. The keyboard itself has a nice feel to the keys for me as I am not a great typist anyway.

Edit: talking about my frustration got me motivated. In reading the Logitech website they mention that the software may not feel like its working correctly when just using the move to the edge of screen feature so I just enabled an option where you do that plus hold the CTRL down and damn that feels much better! Hopefully its solves my issues with the mouse accidentally switching computers and the keyboard not correctly following the mouse. If it does I might stop swearing at the mosue and KB 30 times a day LOL.

Also if you buy the mouse and KB for the purpose of seemlessly switching between to computers, realize this is all done over the network using the Logitech Options software so may require you to play around with the firewall software to gets things working. The biggest issue is making sure both machines are set to a trusted network when working at home. In my case I had to manually adjust this as they defaulted to untrusted because they are company machines. Once I sorted out the network piece then I was to use the software features. I also would confirm with your business if wanting to use it on a company PC to make sure it's allowed.


----------



## 544592

Recently received my Shure Aonic 215's and I really dig them.

The BT adaptors themselves are decent, no issues with connectivity or connection drop-outs at all. The fitment with the 215's is superb. Isolation is excellent, I don't really think ANC is required for the most part (for me). The Android app is super easy to setup and use and it's also one of the quickest and most responsive I've used. The environmental mode is also much much more effective than that of Jabra's.

The sound of the 215's is right up my street in terms of tuning. In comparison to other BT in-ears I've tried (including Jabra Elite Active 75t) they're miles ahead. They're also miles ahead of most ChiFi IEM's I've tried. They make all Sennheiser IEM's I've tried sound ridiculous (my opinion).

Maybe I'll try my Aonic 5's on the TW adaptors and give that a whirl for a laugh.

At £125 for the set (BT&IEM) it's a bargain.


----------



## KopaneDePooj

Please recommend some TW IEMs that sound like Final E3000 (warm, punchy bass but not overwhelming, relaxed hi-mids & treble, good sound stage, natural vocals).
They MUST be front-vented, I have problems with pressure build-up with IEMs that are sealed. (returned Shure SE215 for this). The Final E3000 are perfect, but I need some BT IEMs. Budget $60. 

Thanks!


----------



## dweaver (Jul 7, 2021)

KopaneDePooj said:


> Please recommend some TW IEMs that sound like Final E3000 (warm, punchy bass but not overwhelming, relaxed hi-mids & treble, good sound stage, natural vocals).
> They MUST be front-vented, I have problems with pressure build-up with IEMs that are sealed. (returned Shure SE215 for this). The Final E3000 are perfect, but I need some BT IEMs. Budget $60.
> 
> Thanks!


depending on if your an apple user or an android user, the Apple Airpods Pro are vented and would be good on an Apple system, if your an android user the Galaxy Buds Pro are also vented to have no ear pressure. I personally own the Galaxy Buds Pro and coming from the WF-1000XM3 found them to be a bit fatiguing initally, to compensate I used the preset EQ called Soft to reduce this effect and soften the mids and treble.

I am unsure of other vented TWS so will let others chime in on other models that might work.

sorry missed the budget comment, disregard the above unless you up your budget and maybe find a good deal somewhere.


----------



## erockg

Gm7dha said:


> Recently received my Shure Aonic 215's and I really dig them.
> 
> The BT adaptors themselves are decent, no issues with connectivity or connection drop-outs at all. The fitment with the 215's is superb. Isolation is excellent, I don't really think ANC is required for the most part (for me). The Android app is super easy to setup and use and it's also one of the quickest and most responsive I've used. The environmental mode is also much much more effective than that of Jabra's.
> 
> ...


I had them when they had firmware issues, but I've read they fixed all that.  They're down to $150 here on Amazon in the US, which is a great price.  They DO sound very great and you can swap MMCX IEMs with the adapters.  I just with they had volume controls.


----------



## jant71

erockg said:


> I just with they had volume controls.


...and a two pin option.


----------



## 544592

Yeah lack of volume control doesn't bother me. I'll usually have phone in hand, or can feel the volume buttons through my pocket/running shorts, or, a set and forgot situation.


----------



## erockg

jant71 said:


> ...and a two pin option.


I did try a two pin adapter with them.  Too long.  Fit was awkward.


----------



## SynaestheticA

jant71 said:


> Hmmm, now the N6 Pro2 is 10% off making it $150 shipped to pre-order and price protection if it were to drop any more. I doubt it but good to know you will get the adjustment automatically if it drops. On Amazon.jp the 10% says it will be in effect till October. In my cart and probably will complete my purchase on my first Nuarl. Gamesky actual came in handy with his Nuarl showing the mics are pretty damn good so I know the ambient will be pretty natural.


I might be lucky enough to get my hands on the N6 Pro 2 in the coming weeks. Couldn't wait that long though and had to buy something just so I could stop looking at the damn website images and internet reviews so I got myself the N6 Mini as well. 

Will put a review up on the Pro 2's when they arrive.


----------



## samandhi

SynaestheticA said:


> I might be lucky enough to get my hands on the N6 Pro 2 in the coming weeks. Couldn't wait that long though and had to buy something just so I could stop looking at the damn website images and internet reviews so I got myself the N6 Mini as well.
> 
> Will put a review up on the Pro 2's when they arrive.


Looking forward to hearing your impressions. I have the N6 Pro (1st version), and am pretty impressed with the sound of them.


----------



## jant71

SynaestheticA said:


> I might be lucky enough to get my hands on the N6 Pro 2 in the coming weeks. Couldn't wait that long though and had to buy something just so I could stop looking at the damn website images and internet reviews so I got myself the N6 Mini as well.
> 
> Will put a review up on the Pro 2's when they arrive.


----------



## SynaestheticA

jant71 said:


>


Hell yea,

I'm new to this forum but have been trawling for the last few weeks. After reading just about every single message relating to Nuarl N6 Pro/N6 I'm pretty psyched to have some coming in. Was literally about 2 minutes away from buying the N6 Pro's when I saw that the Pro 2 was coming. The Bordeaux looks nice too, but I did like gold accents on the Pro (Half the reason I wanted them).


----------



## jant71 (Jul 7, 2021)

SynaestheticA said:


> Hell yea,
> 
> I'm new to this forum but have been trawling for the last few weeks. After reading just about every single message relating to Nuarl N6 Pro/N6 I'm pretty psyched to have some coming in. Was literally about 2 minutes away from buying the N6 Pro's when I saw that the Pro 2 was coming. The Bordeaux looks nice too, but I did like gold accents on the Pro (Half the reason I wanted them).


Copper not gold and that is why I like the new accents better. Also like the slightly darker logo(again losing the copper) on the earphones and the bordeaux more than the red. Case is matching the earbud color now with the matching accent strip in the middle as the old case neither matched with the red earphones only the black...




Small change on the colors but makes a difference even though further improving the sound and the ambient are more important improvements.


----------



## helmutcheese

Bit big like Anker Soundcore Liberty 2 Pro and 1MORE True Wireless ANC models.


----------



## jasonb

Gm7dha said:


> Yeah lack of volume control doesn't bother me. I'll usually have phone in hand, or can feel the volume buttons through my pocket/running shorts, or, a set and forgot situation.


Agreed. I never adjust volume on the buds themselves. I definitely pause and skip tracks and so on though.


----------



## jant71

helmutcheese said:


> Bit big like Anker Soundcore Liberty 2 Pro and 1MORE True Wireless ANC models.


The size of the case would seem to still be around 80mm x 40mm which is on the big side.


----------



## helmutcheese

I mean the big buds hanging out your ears, I do not  care if case is big as I do not carry it ever.


----------



## krenzler




----------



## bronco1015

helmutcheese said:


> https://www.avsforum.com/threads/cl...less-noise-cancelling-earbuds-review.3204305/



I got these last week, and I think I got a bad unit. They are beyond terrible. mids sound like a $2 wired iem from 2006 ish.


----------



## helmutcheese

Like the Tronsmart clone then lol


----------



## bronco1015

helmutcheese said:


> Like the Tronsmart clone then lol


way worse...not kidding. The Apollos were fine in passive and ambient, the latter to a lesser degree, in ANC mode, the Bass went to a rediculous level. Bass on the Ally Plus 2 is decent low bass anyway, but everything else about them is just aweful.


----------



## cattboy

`LE Audio (LC3 codec) and LHDC need some time to mature until properly ready for en masse adoption`


jant71 said:


> Those two are different and I don't hold out much hope for LHDC. LC3 is an open standard and that is kinda scary. There was SBC XQ but why did we never get an optimized SBC codec? I fear Qualcomm and Apple may have had a hand trying to protect AAC and aptX against higher quality SBC and MP3 as BT codecs. I really wonder If LC3+ will really come along as a HQ codec or will it face push back. LC3 is not LDAC or LHDC and so far the listening tests say it is hard to tell it from SBC as long as both are at higher bit rate 192 and above. LC3 is still the base codec and will be much more efficient but is better than SBC but not HD, LDAC, LHDC or better bitrate codecs. Correct me but LC3 will be up to 345 bitrate and above that will be LC3+.


To me, the benefits low computational complexity are the standout.  Meaning less time spent enconding/decoding everything.  Less energy cost (batteries last longer), less audio lag (less time spent unpacking), better compression (can smash more info before sending).  A handful of areas that bluetooth currently fails to deliver on while still riding on the old school cool SBC.   Open standard to you might be scary, but to others it allows a lot of people who would never have oversight into a project to actually look under the hood and find unique ways to overcome hurdles others may be stuck on.

Dont quote me but if you buy a future proof BT v5.2 device, with the correct LE Audio SoC chip now, you may get a 20%+ battery bump if your device gets a firmware patch and can use LE audio (someday in the future).



jant71 said:


> Correct me but LC3 will be up to 345 bitrate and above that will be LC3+.



It'll depend on the codec's mode thats developed, Full-Band (FB) vs Ultra-Band (UB).  "LC3plus also includes a high-resolution coding mode using Full-Band (FB) and Ultra-Band (UB) audio encoding at sampling frequencies of 48 kHz and 96 kHz with maximum frame sizes of 625 bytes for a 10 ms frame duration"

If you wanna nerd out, this doc I've slowly been reading through https://www.etsi.org/deliver/etsi_ts/103600_103699/103634/01.02.01_60/ts_103634v010201p.pdf


----------



## helmutcheese

For sure SBC was bastardised, it i capable of far more.


----------



## gwompki

I just sent my second pair of Devialet Geminis back.  I had the same issue in my replacement set that the music would not auto-pause when taking out the right ear IEM.  Also this second pair had an audible high pitched whine in the left ear IEM.  Really unfortunate as the sound of the Gemini's is truly fantastic.  The battery life could be better, but I was willing to overlook that due to how good they sounded.  Oh well the hunt continues.  Still have my eye on the Melomania Touch if Amazon ever starts carrying them again.


----------



## helmutcheese (Jul 8, 2021)

dp


----------



## krenzler

7 posts up.


----------



## helmutcheese

opps, (crap battery).


----------



## jant71

cattboy said:


> `LE Audio (LC3 codec) and LHDC need some time to mature until properly ready for en masse adoption`
> 
> To me, the benefits low computational complexity are the standout.  Meaning less time spent enconding/decoding everything.  Less energy cost (batteries last longer), less audio lag (less time spent unpacking), better compression (can smash more info before sending).  A handful of areas that bluetooth currently fails to deliver on while still riding on the old school cool SBC.   Open standard to you might be scary, but to others it allows a lot of people who would never have oversight into a project to actually look under the hood and find unique ways to overcome hurdles others may be stuck on.
> 
> ...


You might have misunderstood. It is good to have more people work on developing. It is kind of scary cause MP3 and SBC were out there and SBC was certainly improved but not adopted( SBC XQ touted as = to aptX HD). The big boys do seem to have properties they want protected and the free open standard stuff gets suppressed. Battery improvement is not the issue more than the quality being held back esp. LC3+. Will base LC3 which will sound a bit better and be more efficient be all we see in the end devices like now? Money is in AAC, aptX and proprietary codecs like LDAC. Pretty sure they will put up a fight more than just loss the licensing $$$. We know the people that control the equipment have a big say of what goes on it. An XM5 TWS with a more efficient LC3+ on it? Apple not protect AAC etc?


----------



## helmutcheese

http://soundexpert.org/articles/-/blogs/audio-quality-of-sbc-xq-bluetooth-audio-codec


----------



## Luchyres

I'm very keen to check out the N6 Pro2 - but I don't quite get the Amazon International/Global thing - is there a way to access/order if living in mainland USA currently? 

Otherwise, TIA to anyone who posts a USA order link!


----------



## clerkpalmer

Anyone running a BT20 setup with a moondrop starfield and also own the PI7?  Wondering if that combo could possibly sound better than the excellent pI7.


----------



## Tommy C

krenzler said:


>



It looks not bad until he mentioned the harsh treble 😕


----------



## DRuM

Just arrived.  Looking forward to giving them a whirl.  







go


----------



## 544592

@DRuM I do like Creative products, they can sometimes get things just right. Let me know how you get on!

I had various problems with channel imbalance with the original Outlier Air, they upgraded me to the Golds but I eventually got rid. I did quite enjoy the tuning though.

I have a backup pair of Outlier One V2's, again decent tuning and at £13 damn cheap!

The Aurvana SXFI Trio, good concept, but the hybrid tuning didn't suit, the DD was too disconnected from the BA's for my liking.

I have the Aurvana Air (over ear hook jobbies) and they sound excellent for buds! The SXFI Amp is also a good Creative product. They're always worth keeping an eye on.


----------



## DRuM

Gm7dha said:


> @DRuM I do like Creative products, they can sometimes get things just right. Let me know how you get on!
> 
> I had various problems with channel imbalance with the original Outlier Air, they upgraded me to the Golds but I eventually got rid. I did quite enjoy the tuning though.
> 
> ...


Cheers Gm7dha,  I'll definitely let you know how I get on.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

Checking in with the Melomania Touch. Still can't reveal any meaningful data, but things are still positive. Using the Pixel 3a, I've been running my demo playlists on UAPP for at least an hour now and everything's still running.

Can someone do me a favor and take a screenshot of their existing EQ presets in the Melomania app? Want to confirm something...


----------



## jant71

Gm7dha said:


> @DRuM
> 
> I have a backup pair of Outlier One V2's, again decent tuning and at £13 damn cheap!


I recently grabbed a JVC FX22W for $9.95 and love the sound. I'd listen to them over both the JVC $150 runner's TWS and Victor studio models. Super enjoyable slight "V" with some nice placement. Yes the Victor are said to be on par with the MTW2 but even if they improve SQ they kinda drop in enjoyment of the sig.  Also, still beats TWS for having near zero dropouts.


----------



## michaeljefford

Really Curious to try out the Melomania Touch, I know they don’t have ANC, but interested to know how decent passive isolation is?


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

michaeljefford said:


> Really Curious to try out the Melomania Touch, I know they don’t have ANC, but interested to know how decent passive isolation is?


Depending on the tips you get, it's great. The MT, when you get a good seal, just kinda fill out the outer ear's cavity, plugging up your ear canal. Makes for pretty impressive passive isolation. Even if the streets next to my house are really busy, I usually don't have to take volume above half. It gets PLENTY loud, so don't worry about headroom.

And noticed there's a new ZenDesk article for anybody who's been having volume-related issues. Might be worth checking it out:
https://melomania.zendesk.com/hc/en...nia-Touch-are-connected-to-an-Android-device-


----------



## gwompki

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Checking in with the Melomania Touch. Still can't reveal any meaningful data, but things are still positive. Using the Pixel 3a, I've been running my demo playlists on UAPP for at least an hour now and everything's still running.
> 
> Can someone do me a favor and take a screenshot of their existing EQ presets in the Melomania app? Want to confirm something...


I might have missed a post, but are you beta testing a new firmware?


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

gwompki said:


> I might have missed a post, but are you beta testing a new firmware?


Yes, I am. New app and firmware versions.


----------



## gwompki

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Yes, I am. New app and firmware versions.


Nice!  Look forward to hearing more when you can share details.


----------



## davidcotton

Just caved and bought a pair of apple AirPods Pro, primarily for use with iPad iPhone combo as just got fed up doing the settings.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

davidcotton said:


> Just caved and bought a pair of apple AirPods Pro, primarily for use with iPad iPhone combo as just got fed up doing the settings.


Think you'll be a very happy camper. That's the best possible use case for 'em!


----------



## Spidermanxd

anyone have a custom eartips for their tws from adv. sound?


----------



## Juturna

Ordered the Sennheiser MTW2’s yesterday like i mentioned awhile back in the thread because they were discounted with half off. 
Came to the store to pick them up and they refused to sell it to me even though I had an email confirming the price as being what it was. Bad look for a company as big as this to not honor the price, I don’t know what it’s like wherever you guys come from but from a legal perspective I should have the right to purchase it for the price on the website if you have an order confirmation which I have, unless it’s an OBVIOUS pricing error (so let’s say if I see an Tesla Model whatever for $2000, or the MTW2 for $10) which it wasn’t to me, I’ve seen way crazier price drops for products who came out over a year ago.

Kinda bummed out.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

Juturna said:


> Ordered the Sennheiser MTW2’s yesterday like i mentioned awhile back in the thread because they were discounted with half off.
> Came to the store to pick them up and they refused to sell it to me even though I had an email confirming the price as being what it was. Bad look for a company as big as this to not honor the price, I don’t know what it’s like wherever you guys come from but from a legal perspective I should have the right to purchase it for the price on the website if you have an order confirmation which I have, unless it’s an OBVIOUS pricing error (so let’s say if I see an Tesla Model whatever for $2000, or the MTW2 for $10) which it wasn’t to me, I’ve seen way crazier price drops for products who came out over a year ago.
> 
> Kinda bummed out.


Weird. Don't know what consumer protections you have there, but here sellers can reject a sale all the way up through the point of physical transaction. I agree it's not a very ethical way to do business and you're probably going to lose any shot at repeat customers. Doesn't stop them from doing it, even as I stand there and explain to them why that's happening. I've been watching the real-world sales landscape take a serious nosedive over just the past decade. What we used to associate as common courtesy no longer seems to exist.

Did you have an opportunity to reach out to any representative that would be senior to the people you talked to in store?


----------



## davidcotton

Juturna said:


> Ordered the Sennheiser MTW2’s yesterday like i mentioned awhile back in the thread because they were discounted with half off.
> Came to the store to pick them up and they refused to sell it to me even though I had an email confirming the price as being what it was. Bad look for a company as big as this to not honor the price, I don’t know what it’s like wherever you guys come from but from a legal perspective I should have the right to purchase it for the price on the website if you have an order confirmation which I have, unless it’s an OBVIOUS pricing error (so let’s say if I see an Tesla Model whatever for $2000, or the MTW2 for $10) which it wasn’t to me, I’ve seen way crazier price drops for products who came out over a year ago.
> 
> Kinda bummed out.


Email a complaint to store.  Would have thought it would have been a click and collect type deal.


----------



## davidcotton

Spidermanxd said:


> anyone have a custom eartips for their tws from adv. sound?


Main problem for tws with custom tips would be charging the buds I would have thought?  Have thought about getting some for Sony’s from snugs.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

Spidermanxd said:


> anyone have a custom eartips for their tws from adv. sound?


Oh man, I wish, but my level of disposable income isn't _that _good yet.

My only concern at the moment is the turnaround time and whether you'd need to send your TWS in for molds. Depending on their backlog, it might take a while to get back to you and there's no guarantee it doesn't just completely kill the tonality of the TWS themselves.


davidcotton said:


> Main problem for tws with custom tips would be charging the buds I would have thought?  Have thought about getting some for Sony’s from snugs.


I could see them having an advantage if they can take case dimensions as well, but doubt they're that OCD about it.


----------



## davidcotton

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Oh man, I wish, but my level of disposable income isn't _that _good yet.
> 
> My only concern at the moment is the turnaround time and whether you'd need to send your TWS in for molds. Depending on their backlog, it might take a while to get back to you and there's no guarantee it doesn't just completely kill the tonality of the TWS themselves.
> 
> I could see them having an advantage if they can take case dimensions as well, but doubt they're that OCD about it.


Snugs in the uk do them for £100.  Take a picture of your outer ear and they match it to your ear in the database.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

davidcotton said:


> Snugs in the uk do them for £100.  Take a picture of your outer ear and they match it to your ear in the database.


Sounds similar to the method UE adopted a few years ago. Always wanted to go down to their HQ and get the 3D impressions done.

Maybe they'll have a CanJam booth this year...


----------



## Juturna (Jul 8, 2021)

davidcotton said:


> Email a complaint to store.  Would have thought it would have been a click and collect type deal.


It was almost like a click & collect type deal, the only thing is that you actually get an order confirmation, and within that order confirmation it also shows the sales/listing price.
AFAIK, and from all the information i've gathered I can tell that stores are generally obligated to sell it to you at the price within an order confirmation like that, no matter if I had paid online or made the order to pick up and pay at the store.

I did email their customer support (this is a nationwide chain that we're talking about) and they basically told me that since they have a little text at the bottom of their order confirmation emails that they "we reserve the rights to blahblahblah if this email contains any errors", that they wouldn't do jack crap to honor the deal, and wouldn't you know it: I looked it up and it has ZERO judicial standing to have that "reserve the rights to blah" mentioned, it doesn't protect the company whatsoever. A deal is a deal, basically, unless it's done in bad faith. So like I said, if the MTW2's had been bought in bad faith because the new price was *unreasonably *low as such in a matter where you in no way could believe it to be correct, then I would be in the wrong. That was not the case here though.



> Weird. Don't know what consumer protections you have there, but here sellers can reject a sale all the way up through the point of physical transaction. I agree it's not a very ethical way to do business and you're probably going to lose any shot at repeat customers. Doesn't stop them from doing it, even as I stand there and explain to them why that's happening. I've been watching the real-world sales landscape take a serious nosedive over just the past decade. What we used to associate as common courtesy no longer seems to exist.
> 
> Did you have an opportunity to reach out to any representative that would be senior to the people you talked to in store?


Yeah, it kinda works that way and it doesn't... but it's generally honored that you sell a product for the price that is listed for. So if you have a physical store and someone forgot to take down the price tags where a product was discounted, you'll sell it for that price even if the price has gone back up to the original price, you just deal with that loss and then put up the right price tag just thereafter. It's generally the same with internet stores, but it can be even more protected since you actually have sort of physical evidence that you ordered a product for a specific price.


I actually took it a step further, I kinda went full-on Karen mode and filed a claim with (I honestly don't know if there's any equivalent to them in the US/UK/CAN or wherever you're at) The National Board for Consumer Disputes, that is a public authority and functions roughly like a court. So they basically exist to impartially try disputes between consumers and business operators, free of charge for the consumer.
I honestly first did tell their customer service that I was going to contact them just to see if they would back down and just honor the deal, but no dice. I think it's ridiculous because this ends up costing them way more time and money than if they would've just honored the deal, we're talking about $140-ish for a big chain, but not big enough to have meant that the entire country would've bought MTW2's lmao, bet they got 3-4 tops for that price, whereas I doubt all of them would become all bitchy about it like me. )))


----------



## jasonb

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Checking in with the Melomania Touch. Still can't reveal any meaningful data, but things are still positive. Using the Pixel 3a, I've been running my demo playlists on UAPP for at least an hour now and everything's still running.
> 
> Can someone do me a favor and take a screenshot of their existing EQ presets in the Melomania app? Want to confirm something...


I had a Pixel 3a two separate times. It's a great phone for the price. Then went to the 4a, then the 5. Here is a screenshot for ya.


----------



## jasonb (Jul 8, 2021)

michaeljefford said:


> Really Curious to try out the Melomania Touch, I know they don’t have ANC, but interested to know how decent passive isolation is?



With my current memory foam tips they are I'd say 85-90% as isolating as the Airpods Pro with the ANC on. With the right tips they definitely isolate very well. I used mine yesterday while shopping at Walmart with the volume only at 32% and couldn't really hear anything else but my music. I'm usually only in the 28-36% volume area with these. Used with an Android Pixel 5 BTW with aptx.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

jasonb said:


> I had a Pixel 3a two separate times. It's a great phone for the price. Then went to the 4a, then the 5. Here is a screenshot for ya.


Thanks. Suspicions confirmed (it's a good thing).


----------



## jasonb

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Thanks. Suspicions confirmed (it's a good thing).


I'm having no issues with the current app and firmware, but excited to see what's improved.


----------



## samandhi

jasonb said:


> I'm having no issues with the current app and firmware, but excited to see what's improved.


+1


----------



## samandhi

I am interested also to see how they change the sound this time. Each FW update they change the sound, but don't tell anyone. The last one (IMO) was the largest change in sound, to my ears. 

I am definitely not in a hurry to download a new FW until I hear multiple opinions on how the sound has changed, because I am pretty happy with the current tuning, and I don't know of an easy way to downgrade these to an earlier FW revision.


----------



## SynaestheticA

Luchyres said:


> I'm very keen to check out the N6 Pro2 - but I don't quite get the Amazon International/Global thing - is there a way to access/order if living in mainland USA currently?
> 
> Otherwise, TIA to anyone who posts a USA order link!


This website has made me realise exactly how big Amazon is in America, actually can't believe that's the only legit option for consumers. I read your post and thought to myself, "I'll find you a dealer", but nope looks like it's only Amazon. Also it's easily the website with my least favourite layout, i don't know how it got so big. 

But I digress... They are being released worldwide end of July from what i've heard.


----------



## samandhi

SynaestheticA said:


> This website has made me realise exactly how big Amazon is in America, actually can't believe that's the only legit option for consumers. I read your post and thought to myself, "I'll find you a dealer", but nope looks like it's only Amazon. Also it's easily the website with my least favourite layout, i don't know how it got so big.
> 
> But I digress... They are being released worldwide end of July from what i've heard.


It can be tough to get Chinese TWS here, but Japanese TWS (like the Nuarl) are ONLY sold on Amazon through the Nuarl storefront AFAIK. I was not able to find them anywhere else when I was looking to purchase my N6P. Not sure why, but you are right. It is pretty much the only legit way to get them here in the US.


----------



## tinyman392

davidcotton said:


> Main problem for tws with custom tips would be charging the buds I would have thought?  Have thought about getting some for Sony’s from snugs.


I wouldn't quite say charging, but the fact that batteries are a wear item which are expected to go bad eventually (and with TWS, that eventually can be pretty quick with enough use).  I wonder if Adv has any way to replace the batteries.  That would be a huge game changer to be honest.


----------



## BooleanBones

samandhi said:


> +1


me three. pretty good bang for the buck imo.


----------



## jsmiller58

Sorry if covered elsewhere, how would the N6 Pro2 compare to the N10 Pro and Plus from an SQ perspective?


----------



## samandhi

jsmiller58 said:


> Sorry if covered elsewhere, how would the N6 Pro2 compare to the N10 Pro and Plus from an SQ perspective?


I could be wrong, but I don't think the N6 Pro2 are out just yet.


----------



## jsmiller58

samandhi said:


> I could be wrong, but I don't think the N6 Pro2 are out just yet.


I think you are right!


----------



## mainguy

Has anyone else found tws scaling a lot with bluetooth source?

In the PI7 thread we've been discussing Aptx vs AAC (android vs iPhone). To my ears the aptx HD sounds wooorlds better than AAC, it's almost like a different product, as if they become a PI9 on Aptx-hd. I haven't noticed this with other tws, but was wondering if you guys have, with the Sony XM4 for instance?


----------



## 430633 (Jul 9, 2021)

I have to ask you experts for advice!  

My elder sister just contacted me saying that she urgently needed new TWS IEMs. She was using the Sony WF-1000XM3, but one side is dying because they apparently underwent one too many washing cycles  Preferences are something smaller and comfortable with ANC and close to the Harman target (a little less treble is okay). Seeing how her old pair died, I'd say some waterproof rating is a must as well (unless they are cheap enough to be disposable; rather unlikely). Battery life is a bonus

(So far top contenders are the AKG N400, Samsung Galaxy Buds Pro, Apple Airpods Pro and the Nuarl N10 Pro/Plus)


----------



## 544592

Jabra Elite Active 75t not cheap enough to be disposable but superb IP rating (should survive a few spin cycles!), small, comfortable, EQ, ANC, Hear-Through, Good battery, small case, USB-C, great app.


----------



## Aevum

btw about the Melomania Touch, all the first reviews is were basically "i dont care how good they sound, they are so buggy and unstable that they are usless". 
already been through that, have those issues been resolved ?


----------



## chinmie

Some input/thoughts about the TWS scene from VE's Wild Lee


----------



## AudioNoob

I can post these in the marketplace but I wanted to give explorers here first dibs. I'm lightening some of my load and would like to sell some of these affordably to those who might be interested. (let's say at 50% off). All basically new in boxes, I'll let you know if I can't find an accessory. I'd also do partial trade towards a hd560s. All has to go by next Thursday

Tronsmart Apollo Bold
1more Colorbuds
Earfun Free
Earfun Air Pro
Earfun Air True
Tronsmart Spunky Beat
Jeet Air Plus (Sound really good with balanced armatures, control is janky)


----------



## Spidermanxd

AudioNoob said:


> I can post these in the marketplace but I wanted to give explorers here first dibs. I'm lightening some of my load and would like to sell some of these affordably to those who might be interested. (let's say at 50% off). All basically new in boxes, I'll let you know if I can't find an accessory. I'd also do partial trade towards a hd560s. All has to go by next Thursday
> 
> Tronsmart Apollo Bold
> 1more Colorbuds
> ...


same here i have a whole bunch to let go if anyone interest, (2) nuarl n6 pro (2) senheiser, also senheirser 2 (2) sony xm3, noble falcon, jabra 75t


----------



## potix

mainguy said:


> Has anyone else found tws scaling a lot with bluetooth source?
> 
> In the PI7 thread we've been discussing Aptx vs AAC (android vs iPhone). To my ears the aptx HD sounds wooorlds better than AAC, it's almost like a different product, as if they become a PI9 on Aptx-hd. I haven't noticed this with other tws, but was wondering if you guys have, with the Sony XM4 for instance?


I thought that hi-res codecs couldn't change much in listening to music with tws, but I changed my mind after buying the PI7. It's like switching from a 320k mp3 to the same track on cd. Of course when playing back hi-res files or hi-res streaming services. More depth and clarity, not night and day but it's there. But I believe that the rest of a tws hardware must be on par.
I've ordered a pair of xm4, because I really can't bear anymore the atrocious connectivity and all the flaws of those b&w. I need to decide if giving them another chance with a new pair or just returning them.
I'll try to make a comparison using eq and hi-res codecs on both.


----------



## KopaneDePooj

KopaneDePooj said:


> Please recommend some TW IEMs that sound like Final E3000 (warm, punchy bass but not overwhelming, relaxed hi-mids & treble, good sound stage, natural vocals).
> They MUST be front-vented, I have problems with pressure build-up with IEMs that are sealed. (returned Shure SE215 for this). The Final E3000 are perfect, but I need some BT IEMs. Budget $60.
> 
> Thanks!



OK let's make this less restrictive, maybe someone can help:
Please recommend ANY true wireless IEMs that are front-vented or semi-open and don't allow ear canal pressure build-up.
Here is an example of what a front-vent is: https://www.audioreviews.org/the-iems-two-vents-principles/
Basically a small hole in front of the driver. Did you encounter any budget (like $60 or so) TW IEMs in this design?
Thanks!


----------



## jasonb

Aevum said:


> btw about the Melomania Touch, all the first reviews is were basically "i dont care how good they sound, they are so buggy and unstable that they are usless".
> already been through that, have those issues been resolved ?


Only had mine a week and a half, but not a single issue has come up yet. Not a single connection issue or audio stutter.


----------



## samandhi (Jul 9, 2021)

KopaneDePooj said:


> OK let's make this less restrictive, maybe someone can help:
> Please recommend ANY true wireless IEMs that are front-vented or semi-open and don't allow ear canal pressure build-up.
> Here is an example of what a front-vent is: https://www.audioreviews.org/the-iems-two-vents-principles/
> Basically a small hole in front of the driver. Did you encounter any budget (like $60 or so) TW IEMs in this design?
> Thanks!


The only thing with all of those things that I can think of is the Cambridge Audio Melomania Touch. As for venting, it looks like there are a couple of vents right below the charging pin array. Other than the question of venting, the sound profile seems to be close. The bass is indeed punchy (especially for a DD driver), but is strong. I would not say it is overwhelming though. It is boosted, but not to bass-head levels. I would call it very high quantity for audiophile grade bass, if that makes sense. They are in the $130 range, so double what you are wanting to spend. I can think of nothing else that might fit your criteria (though admittedly I have not heard all of them out there).




 This is not my picture, so that is not my dirty ears on the buds... LOL


----------



## VICosPhi (Jul 9, 2021)

Anyone with Edifier TWS Pro NB2 experiencing constant hiss in right earbud with ANC ON and no music playing? Is this to be expected of Chifi TWS? I do not get this on my Senny MTW2


----------



## stenog

KopaneDePooj said:


> OK let's make this less restrictive, maybe someone can help:
> Please recommend ANY true wireless IEMs that are front-vented or semi-open and don't allow ear canal pressure build-up.
> Here is an example of what a front-vent is: https://www.audioreviews.org/the-iems-two-vents-principles/
> Basically a small hole in front of the driver. Did you encounter any budget (like $60 or so) TW IEMs in this design?
> Thanks!


Moondrop Sparks, highly recommended and deserve a lot more attention. 90 USD only. 
No fancy app and no ANC only sound quality. They are a bit bass heavy but easy to get used to, kind of V-shaped probably. I prefer them over both the Sonys and Samsungs, though haven't heard the newest Samsung Pro. 

https://hifigo.com/collections/moondrop/products/moondrop-sparks-tws?variant=39721047949486
2 weeks shipping to EU but no tax to be paid.


----------



## SharkSkin

mainguy said:


> Has anyone else found tws scaling a lot with bluetooth source?
> 
> In the PI7 thread we've been discussing Aptx vs AAC (android vs iPhone). To my ears the aptx HD sounds wooorlds better than AAC, it's almost like a different product, as if they become a PI9 on Aptx-hd. I haven't noticed this with other tws, but was wondering if you guys have, with the Sony XM4 for instance?


I have the Pi5 and in my [very] limited experience I haven't experiences a huge difference going between AptX-HD, AAC, and SBC on my OP8t. I also have an iPhone, but I haven't really used them much with the Pi5, but I might just give it a try in the next day or so just to see if there is any significant difference.


----------



## TK33

SharkSkin said:


> I have the Pi5 and in my [very] limited experience I haven't experiences a huge difference going between AptX-HD, AAC, and SBC on my OP8t. I also have an iPhone, but I haven't really used them much with the Pi5, but I might just give it a try in the next day or so just to see if there is any significant difference.


I didnt think the PI5 had aptX HD (just aptX).  Can you confirm? I also cant force aptX HD on my OnePlus 8t when using my PI7s and the aptX adaptive implementation is awful (very noisy) on the the 8t (not as bad on my LG V60).  Wish there were a way to force aptX HD.


----------



## SharkSkin

TK33 said:


> I didnt think the PI5 had aptX HD (just aptX).  Can you confirm? I also cant force aptX HD on my OnePlus 8t when using my PI7s and the aptX adaptive implementation is awful (very noisy) on the the 8t (not as bad on my LG V60).  Wish there were a way to force aptX HD.


You're right nevermind lol. I probably thought it was aptx hd because the OP8t setting for selecting codecs says HD audio.


----------



## samandhi

Something new


----------



## gwompki

stenog said:


> Moondrop Sparks, highly recommended and deserve a lot more attention. 90 USD only.
> No fancy app and no ANC only sound quality. They are a bit bass heavy but easy to get used to, kind of V-shaped probably. I prefer them over both the Sonys and Samsungs, though haven't heard the newest Samsung Pro.
> 
> https://hifigo.com/collections/moondrop/products/moondrop-sparks-tws?variant=39721047949486
> 2 weeks shipping to EU but no tax to be paid.


I just rolled the dice on a set of sparks.  Haven't read much about them, but will give them a shot.  Same day delivery from Amazon and the price point made it an easy choice.  Still hopeful the Melomania Touch will show up on Amazon again at some point.


----------



## DRuM (Jul 10, 2021)

Gm7dha said:


> @DRuM I do like Creative products, they can sometimes get things just right. Let me know how you get on!
> 
> I had various problems with channel imbalance with the original Outlier Air, they upgraded me to the Golds but I eventually got rid. I did quite enjoy the tuning though.



Well having tried the Creative Outlier Air v2 now,  I can say I'm very impressed with the sound,  particularly the bass, they're giving me the very low end I was looking for. But, and I don't really know how to describe it,  there's this very occasional and random sort of clipping sound I get where someone is talking and then one of the buds sounds like it's momentarily distorted, albeit only for a split second. But I never get that on my other buds.

In terms of comfort, they fit well and won't fall out and are basically comfortable. But they're quite thick making me more aware of them and putting a little more pressure in my ears than I like. They're not quite as comfy nor 'disappear' in my ears so to speak like my Mpow M30. So at the moment, the jury is out. I'll have to test for longer to see if I keep getting the clipping and can get used to the way they feel in my ears.  My feeling though is that I might be returning them for something else. I'll update soon.


----------



## Bobbetybob

samandhi said:


> Something new


Knowing Oneplus they'll just be a rebranded set of Realme buds with some obnoxious marketing.


----------



## Caipirina

PhoenixSong said:


> I have to ask you experts for advice!
> 
> My elder sister just contacted me saying that she urgently needed new TWS IEMs. She was using the Sony WF-1000XM3, but one side is dying because they apparently underwent one too many washing cycles  Preferences are something smaller and comfortable with ANC and close to the Harman target (a little less treble is okay). Seeing how her old pair died, I'd say some waterproof rating is a must as well (unless they are cheap enough to be disposable; rather unlikely). Battery life is a bonus
> 
> (So far top contenders are the AKG N400, Samsung Galaxy Buds Pro, Apple Airpods Pro and the Nuarl N10 Pro/Plus)


Out of those I think only the GaxBudsPro have ipx7 .. I still would not put them in the laundry .. I am surprised the xm3 did not die on the spot after first wash


----------



## clerkpalmer

Caipirina said:


> Out of those I think only the GaxBudsPro have ipx7 .. I still would not put them in the laundry .. I am surprised the xm3 did not die on the spot after first wash


I’ve washed my mpow m30 several times by accident. I cannot kill them. They are bulletproof.


----------



## helmutcheese

Did it make then sound any better?  🤣


----------



## mainguy

potix said:


> I thought that hi-res codecs couldn't change much in listening to music with tws, but I changed my mind after buying the PI7. It's like switching from a 320k mp3 to the same track on cd. Of course when playing back hi-res files or hi-res streaming services. More depth and clarity, not night and day but it's there. But I believe that the rest of a tws hardware must be on par.
> I've ordered a pair of xm4, because I really can't bear anymore the atrocious connectivity and all the flaws of those b&w. I need to decide if giving them another chance with a new pair or just returning them.
> I'll try to make a comparison using eq and hi-res codecs on both.


Looking forward to your comparison with the XM4s, if you could let us know if you use ldac on the xm4s thatd be sweet too
Also, maybe try another pair. Mine have been solid connectivity wise.


----------



## chinmie

clerkpalmer said:


> I’ve washed my mpow m30 several times by accident. I cannot kill them. They are bulletproof.





helmutcheese said:


> Did it make then sound any better?  🤣



i bet it sounds cleaner


----------



## jant71

Anyone wanna try these...








Also, was thinking/waffling on if I would sell my JVC HA-AE5T. If any is into a sports runner's TWS let me know.


----------



## michaeljefford

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Depending on the tips you get, it's great. The MT, when you get a good seal, just kinda fill out the outer ear's cavity, plugging up your ear canal. Makes for pretty impressive passive isolation. Even if the streets next to my house are really busy, I usually don't have to take volume above half. It gets PLENTY loud, so don't worry about headroom.
> 
> And noticed there's a new ZenDesk article for anybody who's been having volume-related issues. Might be worth checking it out:
> https://melomania.zendesk.com/hc/en...nia-Touch-are-connected-to-an-Android-device-


Thanks  any particular tips you recommend, looking at picking up a pair of these next week hopefully


----------



## PixelSquish

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Depending on the tips you get, it's great. The MT, when you get a good seal, just kinda fill out the outer ear's cavity, plugging up your ear canal. Makes for pretty impressive passive isolation. Even if the streets next to my house are really busy, I usually don't have to take volume above half. It gets PLENTY loud, so don't worry about headroom.
> 
> And noticed there's a new ZenDesk article for anybody who's been having volume-related issues. Might be worth checking it out:
> https://melomania.zendesk.com/hc/en...nia-Touch-are-connected-to-an-Android-device-



the MT were the loudest set I've tried between the MTW2, XM4, the top end Technics, the JBL Club Pro Plus. They all kind of topped out near the same volume whereas the MT had a noticeable bit extra volume.


----------



## samandhi

michaeljefford said:


> Thanks  any particular tips you recommend, looking at picking up a pair of these next week hopefully


I use the Spinfit CP360 on mine. They are a bit longer than regular TWS, but short enough to still allow the buds to charge correctly. For me they fit very nicely, where the stock tips don't.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

michaeljefford said:


> Thanks  any particular tips you recommend, looking at picking up a pair of these next week hopefully


I'm pretty keen on the Azla Crystal for grip or, if you need a few mm extra distance to your ear, then potentially the E-Pro TW00 (both are available on Amazon). The Azlas certainly aren't cheap, so might be better to start with the E-Pro and see what you think of them first. Both are case-compatible.


PixelSquish said:


> the MT were the loudest set I've tried between the MTW2, XM4, the top end Technics, the JBL Club Pro Plus. They all kind of topped out near the same volume whereas the MT had a noticeable bit extra volume.


Yeah, they have significantly more headroom than most. Never really figured out how that's possible, but I don't have issues with the MT being too quiet.


----------



## Dregur

bronco1015 said:


> I almost hate to reply to this so many days after the original post, because i'm betting a lot of people have shared what I'm about to. But just incase that isn't true, @Dregur it might depend on what phone you're using these with. Even on older phones with QC SOCs on the 800 series prior to 845, as well as other 6 and 7 series, I've found that if I have a True Wireless model that is otherwise capable of being used in mono, i can pair each individually, and use one at a time. When both are out, the handoff is generally seamless. The phone stays paired with the TWE that was out first, and worst case scenario I've had to resume the audio. Can't speak to how this might work with an IOS Device or on Android phones with mediaTek SOCs.
> Regarding the WF XM4, @DigDub both TWEs pair to the phone at the same time. If one is placed in the case then the audio usually and I'd say 90-95% of the time, doesn't stop playing from the other TWE. I've been using these pretty consistently for 12 days now, and have switched to mono with each often, and never had the audio stop. But after reading your post, I wanted to see what would happen if I kept swapping them wrapidly. only then did the audio stop and I had to resume it FWIW.
> I switched them in and out probably 20 times, and the audio stopped twice. But in more normal use cases, as I mentioned, switching from one to the other while keeping one in has been smooth sailing.
> Also, the WF XM4 remember the state they're in, so if I leave them in Ambient, put them both away and pull them out later, they're in Ambient. if I place the left TWE in the case while in ANC then the right TWE seems to switch from trying to use ANC to passive. i can hear it cycling, but it doesn't go in to Ambient mode. But if I've previously had Ambient mode on while both were out, then ambient remains active with either TWE being used in mono.


 Yeah, we figured that if you have the Google Assistant on, only the right side stays on. If you turn off the assistant, you can use each side independently.


----------



## Caipirina (Jul 11, 2021)

eh, discard this comment, now seeing that @chinmie beat me to the punch 


helmutcheese said:


> Did it make then sound any better?  🤣


like "cleaner" ?


----------



## Aevum

DRuM said:


> Well having tried the Creative Outlier Air v2 now,  I can say I'm very impressed with the sound,  particularly the bass, they're giving me the very low end I was looking for. But, and I don't really know how to describe it,  there's this very occasional and random sort of clipping sound I get where someone is talking and then one of the buds sounds like it's momentarily distorted, albeit only for a split second. But I never get that on my other buds.
> 
> In terms of comfort, they fit well and won't fall out and are basically comfortable. But they're quite thick making me more aware of them and putting a little more pressure in my ears than I like. They're not quite as comfy nor 'disappear' in my ears so to speak like my Mpow M30. So at the moment, the jury is out. I'll have to test for longer to see if I keep getting the clipping and can get used to the way they feel in my ears.  My feeling though is that I might be returning them for something else. I'll update soon.



same as the Outlier v1, sound great, ok fit, work good, amazing battery life, and they are let down by quality issues, battery, clipping. stuff like that.


----------



## Isloo

I recently picked up the Techincs AZ270W and have been very impressed about how good they sound. I use them with the Wavelet app EQ setting and they sound excellent. They are noticeably better than the Galaxy buds, which I have owned for a while. Previously the best wirelss set up I had was the Moondrop Kanas Pro with Trn Bt20s adapters. This set up sounds really good, but I think the Technics sound better. The Technics respond really well to EQing and there is a very noticeable difference between Wavelet app working its magic and them being heard without EQ. Although, I will still likely pick up a pair of the Devialet’s, but I don’t expect to sound better than these.


----------



## GuyDebord

Ditched the PI7 for XM4's and now Im ditching them for the Devialet Gemini. IMO it is the best sounding TW available yet. If you listen to acoustic, electro-acoustic, modern classical, classical, jazz, these are the ones to get, the Gemini's are at another level of resolution. The NC is as excellent as the XM4's but more natural, if you use comply the NC is at the top, however, I prefer how they sound with silicon tips.


----------



## kolbo

GuyDebord said:


> Ditched the PI7 for XM4's and now Im ditching them for the Devialet Gemini. IMO it is the best sounding TW available yet. If you listen to acoustic, electro-acoustic, modern classical, classical, jazz, these are the ones to get, the Gemini's are at another level of resolution. The NC is as excellent as the XM4's but more natural, if you use comply the NC is at the top, however, I prefer how they sound with silicon tips.


I have both the XM4 and the Gemini. 
I agree the Gemini sounds better - but I mostly stopped using them due to fit issues. No matter what, I start having pain after about an hour. 
I can wear the XM4 all day. At some point it is hard to justify the pain…


----------



## AudioNoob

KopaneDePooj said:


> OK let's make this less restrictive, maybe someone can help:
> Please recommend ANY true wireless IEMs that are front-vented or semi-open and don't allow ear canal pressure build-up.
> Here is an example of what a front-vent is: https://www.audioreviews.org/the-iems-two-vents-principles/
> Basically a small hole in front of the driver. Did you encounter any budget (like $60 or so) TW IEMs in this design?
> Thanks!


Jabra 85t refurbished on ebay.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

AudioNoob said:


> Jabra 85t refurbished on ebay.


I think that's a little above their price range, but will agree with you; zero pressure buildup with those.

@KopaneDePooj don't know how much you're going to find down in the price range you mentioned. I would suggest the 85t as well, enough so that it's worth stretching the budget. You'll get what you're looking for without compromising pretty much anywhere else. Pricing on the refurbs isn't as bad as you think:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/164667800671?epid=18044195201&hash=item2656f73c5f:g:EXkAAOSwOLFgD8sC

Fwiw, both of my Jabras were bought through that store and work/look great.


----------



## cresny

GuyDebord said:


> Ditched the PI7 for XM4's and now Im ditching them for the Devialet Gemini. IMO it is the best sounding TW available yet. If you listen to acoustic, electro-acoustic, modern classical, classical, jazz, these are the ones to get, the Gemini's are at another level of resolution. The NC is as excellent as the XM4's but more natural, if you use comply the NC is at the top, however, I prefer how they sound with silicon tips.


Thanks for that info. If a measure of headphones' quality is how well they help you resist buying other headphones then the Devialet scores very highly with me.


----------



## Devodonaldson

kolbo said:


> I have both the XM4 and the Gemini.
> I agree the Gemini sounds better - but I mostly stopped using them due to fit issues. No matter what, I start having pain after about an hour.
> I can wear the XM4 all day. At some point it is hard to justify the pain…


How much better and in what way? I have noble falcon pro and xm4. Falcon pro more treble detail definitely,  but xm4 sounds more cohesive and blended. Warm, soothing. Enjoy the music with xm4, where falcon pro simply hear more of what is there. Hybrid vs what I believe is a single dynamic in the xm4, right? Details on signature of Gemini would be appreciated


----------



## gwompki

cresny said:


> Thanks for that info. If a measure of headphones' quality is how well they help you resist buying other headphones then the Devialet scores very highly with me.


The Geminis are far and away the best sounding TWS I have heard so far.  If it weren't for the feature issues I was having I would have kept them.  Also the battery life at 3.5 hours with anc on was a little disappointing.

Got the Moondrop Sparks yesterday.  A very nice sounding TWS for the price!  A little shouty in the mids for my taste, but still quite good.  They seem to have an audiophile tuning to them.  The bass is very present but not overwhelming.  Details are pretty good as is the sound stage. 

 I enjoyed how simplistic and functional these are.  Range is great, touch controls work, etc. There is no app support to speak of so no eq which is disappointing.  The fit is definitely weird but they are surprisingly comfortable for long sessions.  

I went ahead and ordered a set of Melomania Touch as well.  Should be here by end of this week.


----------



## kolbo

Devodonaldson said:


> How much better and in what way? I have noble falcon pro and xm4. Falcon pro more treble detail definitely,  but xm4 sounds more cohesive and blended. Warm, soothing. Enjoy the music with xm4, where falcon pro simply hear more of what is there. Hybrid vs what I believe is a single dynamic in the xm4, right? Details on signature of Gemini would be appreciated


I’m not great at describing but I’ll try.
The Gemini has better treble- more extended and clearer. The XM4 is very detailed in the mids. Hard to say which one is better there - I think the Gemini but not sure. The bass might go for the XM4- they are very different though.


----------



## gwompki

kolbo said:


> I’m not great at describing but I’ll try.
> The Gemini has better treble- more extended and clearer. The XM4 is very detailed in the mids. Hard to say which one is better there - I think the Gemini but not sure. The bass might go for the XM4- they are very different though.


Wow!  I personally thought the bass on the Gemini was infinitely better than the XM4.  Super tight, fast, well extended.  Actually I'm getting a little sad that I don't own them anymore lol.  I found the XM4 (and Sony house sound in general) to be boomy and slightly muddy.  I agree with you on the treble of the Geminis though.


----------



## kolbo

gwompki said:


> Wow!  I personally thought the bass on the Gemini was infinitely better than the XM4.  Super tight, fast, well extended.  Actually I'm getting a little sad that I don't own them anymore lol.  I found the XM4 (and Sony house sound in general) to be boomy and slightly muddy.  I agree with you on the treble of the Geminis though.


I think the bass is clearer on the Gemini but somehow less impactful and engaging.


----------



## kolbo

gwompki said:


> Wow!  I personally thought the bass on the Gemini was infinitely better than the XM4.  Super tight, fast, well extended.  Actually I'm getting a little sad that I don't own them anymore lol.  I found the XM4 (and Sony house sound in general) to be boomy and slightly muddy.  I agree with you on the treble of the Geminis though.


Also, it is possible I’m trying to give the XM4 a better grade as I really can’t use the Gemini…


----------



## cresny

Devodonaldson said:


> How much better and in what way? I have noble falcon pro and xm4. Falcon pro more treble detail definitely,  but xm4 sounds more cohesive and blended. Warm, soothing. Enjoy the music with xm4, where falcon pro simply hear more of what is there. Hybrid vs what I believe is a single dynamic in the xm4, right? Details on signature of Gemini would be appreciated


I don't have the XM4, but I do have the XM3 and I think that comparison might also apply with the Geminis. There are some tracks that might work better with the XM3s but nevertheless I do always reach for the Geminis mostly because of how much more they reveal, especially on more dynamic or complex music and I also do not find them fatiguing at all. I think it's also worth mentioning that the Geminis should probably not be considered a "neutral" sound since what most people describe will be their augmented representation, that is, with ANC or transparency on. It's somehow done really well and enhances the sound across the spectrum without sounding boosted or artificial. You can disable this, but I think most people won't want to.


----------



## gwompki

kolbo said:


> Also, it is possible I’m trying to give the XM4 a better grade as I really can’t use the Gemini…


I completely understand.  The XM4 are a fantastic piece of tech.  Much more sophisticated than the Devialet, but from a sound sig perspective I just prefer the Geminis.


----------



## gwompki

I gotta say the Moondrop Sparks truly excel at metal/indie/punk/prog/guitar driven rock.  Of all 6 TWS I have tested so far (XM3, XM4, Bose QC buds, Devialet Gemini, Jabra 65t, Moondrop Sparks), the Sparks do those genres best to my ears. 

Currently using Spinfit CP-360 tips with good results.  I have read that tip rolling with these yields drastic differences, but that has not been my experience so far.

I didn't think I would keep these but It's looking like they might have a permanent place in the arsenal.


----------



## GuyDebord

I actually find the Gemini to be more comfortable than the XM4s, finding IEMs that fit is part of the struggle... the other part is sound. I would agree that the XM4 sound good with pop genres, they are tuned to appease the masses, their purpose is to reproduce hyper-mastered and compressed tunes, I can see how someone that listens to pop would prefer the XM4s, its punchier, boomier and loud. However, the dynamics, resolution and overall spatial presentation that complex acoustic, classical and jazz presents, it is without doubt more suited for the Gemini. Listening to complex music on the XM4 is dull and lackluster in comparison. Saying this, I still prefer how pop sounds on the Gemini. Go figure...


----------



## kolbo

GuyDebord said:


> I actually find the Gemini to be more comfortable than the XM4s, finding IEMs that fit is part of the struggle... the other part is sound. I would agree that the XM4 sound good with pop genres, they are tuned to appease the masses, their purpose is to reproduce hyper-mastered and compressed tunes, I can see how someone that listens to pop would prefer the XM4s, its punchier, boomier and loud. However, the dynamics, resolution and overall spatial presentation that complex acoustic, classical and jazz presents, it is without doubt more suited for the Gemini. Listening to complex music on the XM4 is dull and lackluster in comparison. Saying this, I still prefer how pop sounds on the Gemini. Go figure...


I definitely prefer the Gemini sound. But I just can’t get a fit that does not cause me pain after a while. 
In addition, their ambient mode is not as good as the XM4. Sadly, a lot of my music time is when I need to be able to hear kids so that matters a lot. 
I decided to try the Gemini again - maybe I can find a good fit or get my ears used to them… They do sound very good.


----------



## SynaestheticA (Jul 12, 2021)

jsmiller58 said:


> Sorry if covered elsewhere, how would the N6 Pro2 compare to the N10 Pro and Plus from an SQ perspective?


I was talking to some guys who sell the Nuarls and even though they haven't tried the N6 Pro 2 yet they were telling me that everyone in the office prefers the soundstage of the N10's. I would think that they are probably better, here is a bit of an explanation that they sent me regarding the N10 Plus and the N10 pro but still relevant for the N6 Pro 2 I think.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"N6 pro is flatter and smaller but to build a more premium version with better sound you'll need to have room. Most of the premium TWE are around the same size or bigger (e.g Bose QC)

the N10 Plus has increased mids/bass (forward sound) at some cost of the soundstage and detail (only 1 EQ choice in APP).

The N10 Pro has (4 EQ choice in APP) wider sound stage and more detailed treble. N10 Pro has dual frequency active noise cancellation(mid/low) while the Plus only does 1 frequency (low) so the ANC on the Pro is stronger but due to this the higher frequencies will sound sharper while ANC is active. Also the N10 Pro volume is much louder.

N10 Plus uses newer cheaper QCC3040 chipset with apt-X Adaptive, while the N10 Pro uses older premium QCC5124 Chipset with just apt-X."
~~~~~~~~~~
So you get the idea, N10 Plus or Pro are both going to have wider soundstage and bigger sound than the N6 Pro and most likely the N6 Pro 2. I went ahead purchased the N6 Mini (Still getting the Pro 2 though). I am pretty happy with it for at home listening and stuff (Not great for exercise until i get new ear tips). I was tossing up between the N6 Pro 2 and the N10 Pro but decided i like the Aesthetic of the N6 Pro 2 better and am already happy with the sound of the lower model N6 Mini so will most likely be very happy with the Pro 2 sound stage.


----------



## Caipirina

miserybeforethemusic said:


> I highly, HIGHLY suggest that you start with the Soundcore Q30 if you do this. In my opinion, those are the current gold standard for entry-level ANC over-ears. Anker/Soundcore got so many little things right when they designed these. If you could imagine this forum building that one pair that would bridge the gap between normal listeners and the enthusiasts, I think you'd end up somewhere close to what Soundcore released. Sure, they're not going to be the best-sounding pair you'll run across in your journey, but I really think you'd be doing yourself a disservice if you didn't see how all-around _good_ those Q30 are. Seeing them ask less than $100 for them is honestly shocking.


sorry if that's  abit of topic, but I am currently looking for some ANC cans for my teenager and found the Q30 and started looking for second opinions and found your blurp here ... that was in February .. still Gold standard? I don't see much in the new Q35 that would make me spend 50$ extra (auto pause / LDAC .. anything else?) 
Appreciate your feedback


----------



## michaeljefford (Jul 12, 2021)

miserybeforethemusic said:


> I'm pretty keen on the Azla Crystal for grip or, if you need a few mm extra distance to your ear, then potentially the E-Pro TW00 (both are available on Amazon). The Azlas certainly aren't cheap, so might be better to start with the E-Pro and see what you think of them first. Both are case-compatible.
> 
> Yeah, they have significantly more headroom than most. Never really figured out how that's possible, but I don't have issues with the MT being too quiet.



Thanks again . I've ordered a pair of the MT from CA direct (Not available on Amazon in the UK at the moment). Hopefully should get them within a couple of days (just found out they're arriving tomorrow!), looking forward to trying these out.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

Caipirina said:


> sorry if that's  abit of topic, but I am currently looking for some ANC cans for my teenager and found the Q30 and started looking for second opinions and found your blurp here ... that was in February .. still Gold standard? I don't see much in the new Q35 that would make me spend 50$ extra (auto pause / LDAC .. anything else?)
> Appreciate your feedback


I ended up gifting them to a friend and haven't heard any complaints. Just don't have much use for over-ears at the house, but the Q30 had an amazing value proposition. Your teenager should love 'em.


----------



## tiagopinto (Jul 12, 2021)

miserybeforethemusic said:


> I'm pretty keen on the Azla Crystal for grip or, if you need a few mm extra distance to your ear, then potentially the E-Pro TW00 (both are available on Amazon). The Azlas certainly aren't cheap, so might be better to start with the E-Pro and see what you think of them first. Both are case-compatible.
> 
> Yeah, they have significantly more headroom than most. Never really figured out how that's possible, but I don't have issues with the MT being too quiet.



I guess the extra headroom is due to how amplification was implemented in the MT. It’s just awesome.

As a side note: I’m working from home today, from my parents beach vacation home. I knew a guy was supposed to come and do some repairs in the kitchen plumbing (next room to the office room I’m in) and it was bugging me the day before just thinking what I would have to put up to, while trying to focus. This morning, I didn’t realize he had started already, as I started working really early. I’ve been listening to new releases all morning with the MT. To my astonishment, when I was listening to the new J. Cole and one of the tracks ended, I heard this loud hammering and a very loud drill. The next track started and it was gone! “Have these just gained ANC overnight?!?!” No, they’re that good. I guess air travel, whenever possible, is gonna be sweet with these. I’m listening in Spotify, at 80% volume, on an iPhone XS. In the lower volume song intro’s I’m able to hear the drill in the background but that’s about it. Again, awesome.


----------



## jant71 (Jul 12, 2021)

SynaestheticA said:


> I was talking to some guys who sell the Nuarls and even though they haven't tried the N6 Pro 2 yet they were telling me that everyone in the office prefers the soundstage of the N10's. I would think that they are probably better, here is a bit of an explanation that they sent me regarding the N10 Plus and the N10 pro but still relevant for the N6 Pro 2 I think.
> 
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> "N6 pro is flatter and smaller but to build a more premium version with better sound you'll need to have room. Most of the premium TWE are around the same size or bigger (e.g Bose QC)
> ...


You can take the Gamesky review as an example. The N10 Pro is really Japanese. Gamesky liked the Sport tuning better than the plus. If the N10 Pro goes with more treble and even less bass it is not for the majority of Westerners. Even can see it in the N6 and N6 Pro reviews. Same thing that the technically better N6 Pro is not the favored one for the same reason. I actually like the other way towards balance and treble detail actually.

Either way, Nuarl do specifically say the N6 Pro 2 is the best Nuarl sound yet so we will see how that turns out.

You don't mention something that is more important than aesthetics and the sound if they are fairly even anyway is the controls. The 3 button is the best one and most will appreciate that.


----------



## tiagopinto (Jul 12, 2021)

tiagopinto said:


> I guess the extra headroom is due to how amplification was implemented in the MT. It’s just awesome.
> 
> As a side note: I’m working from home today, from my parents beach vacation home. I knew a guy was supposed to come and do some repairs in the kitchen plumbing (next room to the office room I’m in) and it was bugging me the day before just thinking what I would have to put up to, while trying to focus. This morning, I didn’t realize he had started already, as I started working really early. I’ve been listening to new releases all morning with the MT. To my astonishment, when I was listening to the new J. Cole and one of the tracks ended, I heard this loud hammering and a very loud drill. The next track started and it was gone! “Have these just gained ANC overnight?!?!” No, they’re that good. I guess air travel, whenever possible, is gonna be sweet with these. I’m listening in Spotify, at 80% volume, on an iPhone XS. In the lower volume song intro’s I’m able to hear the drill in the background but that’s about it. Again, awesome.



I didn’t get too much carried away with my first analysis but obviously the MT are not ANC so when the album changed to the new Jorja Smith (much calmer and with much less of a drum beat) I could definitely hear the noise. I believe ANC would clearly help, with those out of phase frequencies, but still... this is much more passive isolation than I would have expected. Since I couldn’t totally focus, I tested pausing the music and even switching on various levels of Transparency... but, when playing without transparency and during a track called Digging, the noise was gone again. Awesome album too. So bass definitely helps. Still... awesome!


----------



## nekonhime

jant71 said:


> You can take the Gamesky review as an example. The N10 Pro is really Japanese. Gamesky liked the Sport tuning better than the plus. If the N10 Pro goes with more treble and even less bass it is not for the majority of Westerners. Even can see it in the N6 and N6 Pro reviews. Same thing that the technically better N6 Pro is not the favored one for the same reason. I actually like the other way towards balance and treble detail actually.
> 
> Either way, Nuarl do specifically say the N6 Pro 2 is the best Nuarl sound yet so we will see how that turns out.
> 
> You don't mention something that is more important than aesthetics and the sound if they are fairly even anyway is the controls. The 3 button is the best one and most will appreciate that.


I am waiting for the n10 pro 2 lol.


----------



## CocaCola15

miserybeforethemusic said:


> I ended up gifting them to a friend and haven't heard any complaints. Just don't have much use for over-ears at the house, but the Q30 had an amazing value proposition. Your teenager should love 'em.


I second that. I own a pair of the Q30 and do use them, in fact I think they isolate as much as the Sony M3s I have here too. A great value, and comfy as well.


----------



## DRuM (Jul 12, 2021)

Aevum said:


> same as the Outlier v1, sound great, ok fit, work good, amazing battery life, and they are let down by quality issues, battery, clipping. stuff like that.



That's interesting to know that you got clipping too on the first version of these buds. I must admit I haven't had any clipping since, so still testing to see if I get it again.  I've now selected the largest tips that came with them with the widest bore and those give me the bass I like. I don't like the way they've designed the orientation of the two bud cradles in the slide out box. On my Mpow M30 for instance, I take them out of my ears and place them in the box the same orientation they came out of my ears. With the Outlier, you take them out the ears but have to turn them around when placing in the box, Small detail I know.

My benchmark for buds are my wired ibasso IT01. For example, the Outlier give excellent low end on the bass.  But as a drummer, I foremost listen to the kick drum and snare. The lower frequency of the bass drum is there and has a good sense of weight. However, and I don't know if the proper description is upper bass or mid bass, but the bass drum doesn't quite have the detail, attack and airiness in the higher frequency as my wired buds. It's a little bit lost. Snare sounds good but again lacking a little attack.  Maybe the proper terminology is mid bass slam? Or maybe it's just the mids in general. There's not a lot in it, but on the Outlier, it's a tad muddy. The treble is a little bright for my taste but I can tame it with the EQ on my phone.  Is it bad to keep comparing and expect wireless buds to be like wired buds? My ibasso aren't top end buds, only cost about £90 when I got them a few years ago, but they're still more musical and my go to for the best sound quality. That said, when I forget about analysing the Creative Outlier and just listen to music, they do sound really good.


----------



## samandhi

DRuM said:


> That's interesting to know that you got clipping too on the first version of these buds. I must admit I haven't had any clipping since, so still testing to see if I get it again.  I've now selected the largest tips that came with them with the widest bore and those give me the bass I like. I don't like the way they've designed the orientation of the two bud cradles in the slide out box. On my Mpow M30 for instance, I take them out of my ears and place them in the box the same orientation they came out of my ears. With the Outlier, you take them out the ears but have to turn them around when placing in the box, Small detail I know.
> 
> My benchmark for buds are my wired ibasso IT01. For example, the Outlier give excellent low end on the bass.  But as a drummer, I foremost listen to the kick drum and snare. The lower frequency of the bass drum is there and has a good sense of weight. However, and I don't know if the proper description is upper bass or mid bass, but the bass drum doesn't quite have the detail, attack and airiness in the higher frequency as my wired buds. It's a little bit lost. Snare sounds good but again lacking a little attack.  Maybe the proper terminology is mid bass slam? Or maybe it's just the mids in general. There's not a lot in it, but on the Outlier, it's a tad muddy. The treble is a little bright for my taste but I can tame it with the EQ on my phone.  Is it bad to keep comparing and expect wireless buds to be like wired buds? My ibasso aren't top end buds, only cost about £90 when I got them a few years ago, but they're still more musical and my go to for the best sound quality. That said, when I forget about analysing the Creative Outlier and just listen to music, they do sound really good.


Sounds like you are looking for more of an analytical tuned TWS, rather than fun tuned. You described the sound pretty well. Sounds like they have more sub bass than mid bass. This will give it more boom, but less texture, and attack. As for the snare, depending on the type of snare, it can usually be found in the mids and treble. If the mids are recessed, and the high are too prevalent the snare will either sound distant and not snappy, or very thin, or both.

I am not a drummer, but that is what I listen to most in the type of music I like. The problem with trying to hear the drums above all is that the TWS needs to be tuned fairly neutral because the drums as a whole cover all three areas (bass, mids, and treble). Not related, but if you get a chance you should demo some good planar headphones. Drums are the best with those IMO. As for TWS, the Melomania Touch are pretty good at it, though the bass is boosted, it doesn't bleed into the mids (overshadow or otherwise cover up the sound coming from the mids). 

From what I am reading about the IT01, they were made for listening to drums, so not sure anything will live up to what you have found. But, another solution might be to buy a BT adaptor and make your gems wireless. Something like the Fiio UTWS3  or iBasso CF01 might be just what the (drum) doctor ordered.


----------



## kolbo

gwompki said:


> I completely understand.  The XM4 are a fantastic piece of tech.  Much more sophisticated than the Devialet, but from a sound sig perspective I just prefer the Geminis.


Now because of you I tried the Geminis again. I’m back to tip rolling trying to find ones that would not hurt after a while as it sounds so good…


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

DRuM said:


> That's interesting to know that you got clipping too on the first version of these buds. I must admit I haven't had any clipping since, so still testing to see if I get it again.  I've now selected the largest tips that came with them with the widest bore and those give me the bass I like. I don't like the way they've designed the orientation of the two bud cradles in the slide out box. On my Mpow M30 for instance, I take them out of my ears and place them in the box the same orientation they came out of my ears. With the Outlier, you take them out the ears but have to turn them around when placing in the box, Small detail I know.
> 
> My benchmark for buds are my wired ibasso IT01. For example, the Outlier give excellent low end on the bass.  But as a drummer, I foremost listen to the kick drum and snare. The lower frequency of the bass drum is there and has a good sense of weight. However, and I don't know if the proper description is upper bass or mid bass, but the bass drum doesn't quite have the detail, attack and airiness in the higher frequency as my wired buds. It's a little bit lost. Snare sounds good but again lacking a little attack.  Maybe the proper terminology is mid bass slam? Or maybe it's just the mids in general. There's not a lot in it, but on the Outlier, it's a tad muddy. The treble is a little bright for my taste but I can tame it with the EQ on my phone.  Is it bad to keep comparing and expect wireless buds to be like wired buds? My ibasso aren't top end buds, only cost about £90 when I got them a few years ago, but they're still more musical and my go to for the best sound quality. That said, when I forget about analysing the Creative Outlier and just listen to music, they do sound really good.


I hear you. I'm stupid picky with drum timbres, too. There's a couple TWS that do this well, but I wouldn't call them cost-effective. Honestly, having a 2-pin BT adapter and those IT00 are probably the winning ticket. If they have to be a TWS, give the UE or JBL a shot. They're a little more true to the real thing.


----------



## gwompki

kolbo said:


> Now because of you I tried the Geminis again. I’m back to tip rolling trying to find ones that would not hurt after a while as it sounds so good…


Not sure if you tried spinfit cp360 or not but they were they best for me on the Gemini in terms of both comfort and sound.  Hope you can find some that work for you!  What part of your ear is experiencing pain?


----------



## kolbo (Jul 12, 2021)

gwompki said:


> Not sure if you tried spinfit cp360 or not but they were they best for me on the Gemini in terms of both comfort and sound.  Hope you can find some that work for you!  What part of your ear is experiencing pain?


I don’t remember by now. I have them so I’ll try.
Right now using medium epro EP01 and it is no bad. Left ear hurts a bit but way less than other things I tried. I’m using the large EP01 on the XM4 and have no pain at all.
The pain is inside the ear canal where the tip is, and also in the back where the body of the earbud leans against the ear.


----------



## DRuM

samandhi said:


> Sounds like you are looking for more of an analytical tuned TWS, rather than fun tuned. You described the sound pretty well. Sounds like they have more sub bass than mid bass. This will give it more boom, but less texture, and attack. As for the snare, depending on the type of snare, it can usually be found in the mids and treble. If the mids are recessed, and the high are too prevalent the snare will either sound distant and not snappy, or very thin, or both.
> 
> I am not a drummer, but that is what I listen to most in the type of music I like. The problem with trying to hear the drums above all is that the TWS needs to be tuned fairly neutral because the drums as a whole cover all three areas (bass, mids, and treble). Not related, but if you get a chance you should demo some good planar headphones. Drums are the best with those IMO. As for TWS, the Melomania Touch are pretty good at it, though the bass is boosted, it doesn't bleed into the mids (overshadow or otherwise cover up the sound coming from the mids).
> 
> From what I am reading about the IT01, they were made for listening to drums, so not sure anything will live up to what you have found. But, another solution might be to buy a BT adaptor and make your gems wireless. Something like the Fiio UTWS3  or iBasso CF01 might be just what the (drum) doctor ordered.


Wow, you absolutely nailed it with your detailed explanation. I never thought of that term 'fun tuned' but yes, that seems to be right.  

I didn't know the ibasso were known for excelling at drums, that's interesting and would account for me liking them. I would say they're fairly neutral as are my Sennheiser 580 headphones, so I think I tend to lean towards more neutral sound with slightly rolled of treble.  

I looked into those two BT adaptors a while back but to be honest I don't think I'll buy either as I prefer to just have buds with nothing trailing down or behind the ears. Plus I enjoy the touch functionality of TWS.

Thanks for the Cambridge Audio recommendation. I've been youtubing the Melomania Touch since you mentioned it and they look like my ibasso with very similar shape and glossy black shell. They also look slightly slimmer than the Outlier which is a good thing. There's a shop near me that sells them so I'll go get a demo. They're about twice the cost of the Outlier but if they're really good I don't mind. Long battery life + the sound quality I want reduces my options with TWS, but it seems the Touch has 7 to 9 hours on a single charge which is decent. Yeah you're right, I might not find anything that gives me exactly the same as my ibasso. Still, I guess I'm kind of being fussy as the overall sound of the Outlier is good and I'll be happy to keep them if nothing else gets closer.


----------



## DRuM

miserybeforethemusic said:


> I hear you. I'm stupid picky with drum timbres, too. There's a couple TWS that do this well, but I wouldn't call them cost-effective. Honestly, having a 2-pin BT adapter and those IT00 are probably the winning ticket. If they have to be a TWS, give the UE or JBL a shot. They're a little more true to the real thing.


Thanks buddy.  Can you tell me what model of UE and JBL to look for and do you know if the battery life is long on those?


----------



## tinyman392

DRuM said:


> Thanks buddy.  Can you tell me what model of UE and JBL to look for and do you know if the battery life is long on those?


Not sure about the JBL, but UE only has one TWS right now, the Fits.  UE quotes 8 hours of playtime through those off of a full charge.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

DRuM said:


> Thanks buddy.  Can you tell me what model of UE and JBL to look for and do you know if the battery life is long on those?


UE - FITS (at the current $169 asking price, they're a steal)
JBL - Club Pro+ (usually go around $200, don't ever see them on sale)

Yeah, unfortunately these start to get pricey, but you get what you pay for. The JBLs with EPro tips seems to work the best for my ears.

The FITS are going to be waaaaay more timbrally accurate across the range, but you'll kinda lose on bass presence at the same time. Unfortunate give-and-take, but this is the pair I put on and find myself getting lost in the music more than anything else, really.

Battery life is good on both. For the UE, it's rated for 8 on its own and 12 more with the case. For JBL, it's 8 hours for the buds (goes down to 6 with ANC on) and 24 for the case. You really don't lose either way, imo. Plus, since you can run either bud independently, your real-world battery life is probably going to be more. Fwiw, I'm never wanting for more battery with either pair.

Curious to get your impressions after a demo with the Melomania Touch. I think they're a little more romantic than accurate when it comes to the drums, but by far better than most of what's on the market right now.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

DRuM said:


> Thanks buddy.  Can you tell me what model of UE and JBL to look for and do you know if the battery life is long on those?


Oh and slightly OT, but you might want to consider a pair of these as a potential drummers' monitor. Been test-driving them for the week and I think you could legit use these behind a kit in a pinch. Maybe studio-only, but that's something.






Run a little more than your IT00, but this is probably a good step up for you on the wired side. Let them break in, though. These LCP drivers seem to need it.


----------



## Tommy C

Anyone here has the Jabees Vintage? They are 20% off with coupon code “20OFFVIN” and they have wireless charging, ANC, transparency mode and an app… $39.00 with coupon sounds almost too good. Wondering if anyone tried them?


----------



## Juturna

Tommy C said:


> Anyone here has the Jabees Vintage? They are 20% off with coupon code “20OFFVIN” and they have wireless charging, ANC, transparency mode and an app… $39.00 with coupon sounds almost too good. Wondering if anyone tried them?


They don’t have ANC as far as I know. They claim that they have ENC (Environmental Noise Control) which is honestly not related to some sort active noise cancellation, they just have an ambient mode and mics that cancel out sounds around you when you’re making calls.


----------



## DRuM

miserybeforethemusic said:


> UE - FITS (at the current $169 asking price, they're a steal)
> JBL - Club Pro+ (usually go around $200, don't ever see them on sale)
> 
> Yeah, unfortunately these start to get pricey, but you get what you pay for. The JBLs with EPro tips seems to work the best for my ears.
> ...



Thanks very much for your recommendations. Yes, battery life does seem good on both. I can't actually find the UE Fits on any uk seller.  I found the JBL Club Pro+  though ranging from £97 to £130.  What I'll do first is get a demo of the Melomania Touch and update here.  They're also £130.


miserybeforethemusic said:


> Oh and slightly OT, but you might want to consider a pair of these as a potential drummers' monitor. Been test-driving them for the week and I think you could legit use these behind a kit in a pinch. Maybe studio-only, but that's something.
> 
> 
> 
> Run a little more than your IT00, but this is probably a good step up for you on the wired side. Let them break in, though. These LCP drivers seem to need it.


Thanks. I've heard of Campfire Audio and those buds in your photo look sweet. Definitely something for consideration.


----------



## jant71

Interesting. How good could ANC be in an Earpod style.

"Huawei Japan will release the completely wireless earphone "HUAWEI FreeBuds 4" on July 30th. There are two colors, silver frost and ceramic white. The price is open, but it is expected to be sold for around 18,480 yen including tax.        




「FreeBuds 4」



A completely wireless earphone equipped with active noise canceling (ANC) while being open. In addition to reducing the weight of the charging case from the previous model "HUAWEI FreeBuds 3" released in 2019, it has improved noise canceling performance, sound quality, and fit.        

The charging case is 6.3% smaller and 20.8% lighter than before. In addition, the earphones are ergonomically designed to measure and analyze data from the ears of more than 10,000 people to improve the fit. The mass of the earphone alone is 4.1g.        

The driver is equipped with a 14.3mm 40kHz high frequency range driver. The bass-enhanced power engine improves the bass by 50%. In addition, consideration is given to the loss of sound quality due to sound leakage, which tends to occur in the open type. By analyzing and correcting how much sound leakage there is with AI, it is said that it pursued "good sound quality even in the open type".        




Equipped with 14.3mm driver




50% improvement in bass reproduction capability



ANC adopts a hybrid type with a feedforward microphone and a feedback microphone. The feedforward microphone pursues the stability of ANC by adopting a design that prevents wind noise. In addition, the ANC automatic optimization technology "AEM" has increased the noise reduction effect from the maximum of 15 dB of the previous model to a maximum of 25 dB.        




Designed to prevent wind noise



Supports the multi-pairing function "dual device simultaneous connection" that is also installed in the company's top model "FreeBuds Pro". For devices equipped with the company's EMUI 10 or later, a panel that allows you to easily switch connected devices will also pop up.        

In addition, it supports operations by touch control. Double-tap to answer phone calls and stop music playback, long-press to turn noise canceling on and off, and swipe up and down to adjust volume. Continuous playback time is 4 hours with earphones alone and 22 hours with case. "


----------



## Aevum

the freebuds are better but isolation isnt that good, sound quality is good, and they are ok, compared to my other TWS, the ANC is more or less the same as the N400 but the N400 sound quite better. 

As for the connection, any android device you install the Huawei AI life software should work fine, but you need the huawei app galery to install it.


----------



## jant71

yep, seems the sound is good but the ANC is not worth it for the amount or the battery life hit. That 4 hours is with the ANC off so 2.5 ANC on is sad in 2021. You could probably do the same amount with silicone caps for passive NC.


----------



## MichaelScarn

Hi all. New here, so if I'm posting at the wrong place, excuse me and I'll delete it. 
Currently owner of the Cambridge Audio Melomania Touch. Tried a couple of combinations with the tips and wings, but still not able to find a good, comfortable fit.
Considering selling them and get the Sony's WF-1000XM3 instead. Any thoughts on the difference in sound quality between the two? I will be using them mainly at work or on commutes. Thanks


----------



## potix (Jul 13, 2021)

mainguy said:


> Looking forward to your comparison with the XM4s, if you could let us know if you use ldac on the xm4s thatd be sweet too
> Also, maybe try another pair. Mine have been solid connectivity wise.


I've been using the xm4 for a couple days, I didn't create a full eq for them but played enough with the sony equalizer coupled with wavelet.
Both sony and b&w equed and on hi-res codecs, on hi-res and cd quality tracks.
I'll keep it short: the PI7 sound better. They are fuller sounding, they are faster and have more resolution. How big is difference? I don't know and can't tell if it justify the price difference because ears and wallet of each of us are different. To be honest I'm not very impressed with the sony, they sound a bit messy with more complex tracks, where PI7 shine in dynamic and clarity with an awesome midrange and detailed treble. The bass on sonys is ok, but bested too by b&w.
The hi-res codec is more obvious on PI7, even though there is a volume bump on switch, so I could be deceived.
Maybe soundstage is a tiny bit more tridimensional on xm4, but they are both so limited that I can't be sure.
I'm not saying the sonys sound bad, they are sweet, but you are probably paying their price for all the technology inside.
And I have to point out again that PI7 have a terrible tuning according to my tastes and beliefs. The sonys are acceptable. Both need equing, and the sony equalizer is limited, not allowing to customize the bass section adequately if you want a different base signature.
I must be honest, I would probably keep the xm4 for all those features (I kind of love the speak to chat) but one of them is bit uncomfortable.
So I am still on the fence.


----------



## BooleanBones

potix said:


> I've been using the xm4 for a couple days, I didn't create a full eq for them but played enough with the sony equalizer coupled with wavelet.
> Both sony and b&w equed and on hi-res codecs, on hi-res and cd quality tracks.
> I'll keep it short: the PI7 sound better. They are fuller sounding, they are faster and have more resolution. How big is difference? I don't know and can't tell if it justify the price difference because ears and wallet of each of us are different. To be honest I'm not very impressed with the sony, they sound a bit messy with more complex tracks, where PI7 shine in dynamic and clarity with an awesome midrange and detailed treble. The bass on sonys is ok, but bested too by b&w.
> The hi-res codec is more obvious on PI7, even though there is a volume bump on switch, so I could be deceived.
> ...


One other subtle feature on the XM4s is the audio fading back in rather than blasting it back in your ears when using the touch hold ambient feature. Well thought out. I liked the PI7s as well, but the bang was just not worth the buck to me when I stacked up the battery life and features included with the XM4s.


----------



## BigZ12

So far pleased with my new Sony WF-1000XM4.

Will mostly use it with LDAC codec from Fiio BTA-30 transmitter (connected to HTPC in living room with toslink and 96khz/24bit)
Very good fit and sound with JVC Spiral Dot (M+) tips. 
Sligthly tweaking the sound with APO EQ/PEACE (minus 1-2db 20hz-150hz, and +1-2db 4k-12k)

With these tips, eq settings and LDAC codec from the BTA-30, they sound like no TWS I've listened to.


----------



## SynaestheticA

Tommy C said:


> Anyone here has the Jabees Vintage? They are 20% off with coupon code “20OFFVIN” and they have wireless charging, ANC, transparency mode and an app… $39.00 with coupon sounds almost too good. Wondering if anyone tried them?


I've been getting them advertised at me like mad on Facebook. Their $39 retail is probably all swallowed up by direct marketing by now. I thought about getting them, mostly cause i like the aesthetic which is 70% of my decision making. I don't honestly think they will be very good though. They claim 'Audiophile' grade SQ but don't make any further mention of their drivers or tuning or anything like that. I'm always sceptical when no real emphasis is put on SQ. That being said, they do talk a lot about it being good for gaming in terms of latency, so that is probably the sell there. For $39, I say **** around n find out


----------



## cattboy (Jul 13, 2021)

SynaestheticA said:


> That being said, they do talk a lot about it being good for gaming in terms of latency


Marketing speech 'gaming mode' I've noticed is exclusive to PHONE gaming, latency wise its limited to codecs and the Jabees bottom out with aptX/SBC/AAC.

For PC, these would be rubbish meaning lows of 200ms and highs of, too high to consider.

I recently purchased the EPOS GTW 270 Hybrid and very happy.  They use a proprietary RF dongle for ~20ms latency.  For PC its literally un-noticeable when playing fast action gameplay (FPS Shooters). Compared to my aptX WH-XM3 cans, its night and day, no more delayed footstep sounds.  3.5mm stereo Wired latency is ~2-10ms for comparison  (plugged in).

Next is to find some good tips as the silicone hurt my ears after a few hours.  Have tried all size combinations in each ear it came with, xS to L.  Ordered Comply foam tips to check out but still looking around.


----------



## howdy

Has anyone purchased the new Sennheiser CX? Got these coming in by Saturday or before.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

howdy said:


> Has anyone purchased the new Sennheiser CX? Got these coming in by Saturday or before.


Already have the CX400BT, so it'd be pretty superfluous for me. Excited for you, though!

Curious to see what they consider a "bass boost" to the existing signature as it's already really robust...


----------



## howdy

Has anyone purchased the new Sennheiser CX? Got these coming in by Saturday or before


miserybeforethemusic said:


> Already have the CX400BT, so it'd be pretty superfluous for me. Excited for you, though!
> 
> Curious to see what they consider a "bass boost" to the existing signature as it's already really robust...


From I've seen they are tuned like the momentum 2 but with out the ANC and transparency, (which I'm fine with). 
I have the momentum 1 still, and they sound great.


----------



## gwompki

I've been listening to the Moondrop Sparks more the past few days.  I have to say I almost feel like I'm listening to a traditional wired  earbud (ie VE Monk) as opposed to an in ear device.  I find myself listening at higher volumes than I normally would with an IEM with flatter response.  From what I have read this was Moondrop's attempt to make them more like actual speakers.  If so they have succeeded because with my 2 channel setup I crave higher volumes for the perceived increase in low end.  Moondrop tuned these with a pretty huge bump at 3khz which can be fatiguing to my ears when listening at lower volumes but somehow is not as fatiguing at higher volumes when the low end is perceived to fill in.  Probably worse for my ears in the long run through.

I emailed Moondrop support to see when or if an app would ever be available on the app stores.  Right now the Moondrop link software is only available as an apk download from Shenzhen audio.  I downloaded it to an old unused phone and it could only do ota fw updates and touch controls customization.  No eq unfortunately.  I think that would be a game changer for these.  Apparently the version released for the market on China could be controlled/eq'd  by the hiby blue app, but not so for the international version.

The fit on these things is definitely wonky for me with the long nozzles.  Surprisingly comfortable though.  I notice when walking with these or when I'm on the gym I get a strange clicking sound with each step.  The sound is from some sort of shift in the unit in my ear and not an electronic sound. I think it is the spinfit nozzle flexing since these things stick out of my ears a bit.  Hard to explain.

I honestly did not expect to like these and didn't really care for them straight out of the box.  However, they are really growing on me the more I listen to them. Coming from the Geminis, my ears needed some time to adjust from the amazing low end that Devialet brought.  As I mentioned previously,  the Sparks really shine for certain types of rock and metal.  Guitars really sound tremendous.  They are not perfect for all genres though.  All that said, I think I might actually keep these!

I should receive my Melomania Touch tomorrow.  Will be interesting to compare the two.  Had a great experience with CA support.  Ordered the MT on Sunday and was told delivery would be 3-5 business days.  I hadn't received a shipping update by end of today, so emailed support to see when they might ship out.  Got a response extremely quickly saying there was a glitch in their ordering system and they would overnight the MT to me.  Was not expecting that or asking for that but wow! Such a nice experience this day in age.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

gwompki said:


> I've been listening to the Moondrop Sparks more the past few days.  I have to say I almost feel like I'm listening to a traditional wired  earbud (ie VE Monk) as opposed to an in ear device.  I find myself listening at higher volumes than I normally would with an IEM with flatter response.  From what I have read this was Moondrop's attempt to make them more like actual speakers.  If so they have succeeded because with my 2 channel setup I crave higher volumes for the perceived increase in low end.  Moondrop tuned these with a pretty huge bump at 3khz which can be fatiguing to my ears when listening at lower volumes but somehow is not as fatiguing at higher volumes when the low end is perceived to fill in.  Probably worse for my ears in the long run through.
> 
> I emailed Moondrop support to see when or if an app would ever be available on the app stores.  Right now the Moondrop link software is only available as an apk download from Shenzhen audio.  I downloaded it to an old unused phone and it could only do ota fw updates and touch controls customization.  No eq unfortunately.  I think that would be a game changer for these.  Apparently the version released for the market on China could be controlled/eq'd  by the hiby blue app, but not so for the international version.
> 
> ...


That's awesome! I do like the folks over at Cambridge; they really seem to care far more about the post-sales side than I'm used to seeing and it's refreshing.

Appreciate your take on the Sparks as well; think the shells would be too big in my ears based on the shape and its comparable size to some of Moondrop's other stuff. Good to know they're trying to bring their signature tuning into the TWS realm. Fingers crossed that app gets published to the stores soon.


----------



## tinyman392

miserybeforethemusic said:


> That's awesome! I do like the folks over at Cambridge; they really seem to care far more about the post-sales side than I'm used to seeing and it's refreshing.
> 
> Appreciate your take on the Sparks as well; think the shells would be too big in my ears based on the shape and its comparable size to some of Moondrop's other stuff. Good to know they're trying to bring their signature tuning into the TWS realm. Fingers crossed that app gets published to the stores soon.


I kind of want to try the Sparks, they'd be my first Moondrop IEMs though


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

tinyman392 said:


> I kind of want to try the Sparks, they'd be my first Moondrop IEMs though


That or the Aria LCP wouldn't be a bad start. Took a lot more to love the Kanas Pro than I thought it would.

I say go for it. Think Apos has the Sparks. Would get to you pretty quick.


----------



## tinyman392

miserybeforethemusic said:


> That or the Aria LCP wouldn't be a bad start. Took a lot more to love the Kanas Pro than I thought it would.
> 
> I say go for it. Think Apos has the Sparks. Would get to you pretty quick.


It's in stock at Amazon now


----------



## mainguy

potix said:


> I've been using the xm4 for a couple days, I didn't create a full eq for them but played enough with the sony equalizer coupled with wavelet.
> Both sony and b&w equed and on hi-res codecs, on hi-res and cd quality tracks.
> I'll keep it short: the PI7 sound better. They are fuller sounding, they are faster and have more resolution. How big is difference? I don't know and can't tell if it justify the price difference because ears and wallet of each of us are different. To be honest I'm not very impressed with the sony, they sound a bit messy with more complex tracks, where PI7 shine in dynamic and clarity with an awesome midrange and detailed treble. The bass on sonys is ok, but bested too by b&w.
> The hi-res codec is more obvious on PI7, even though there is a volume bump on switch, so I could be deceived.
> ...


Love the comparison.

Cant say im too suprised on SQ. Everytime I use the PI7 with aptx HD im amazed they're a tws. They sound great to me, better than any tws has a right to sound.


----------



## Caipirina (Jul 14, 2021)

Why oh Why Samsung? The iOS Galaxy Buds app does NOT support the Pros? There is no app support for the pros in iOS?

So, late to the party again, as usual, I finally found an ok price on the GB Pro and since they are ipx7 and dual DD setup and overall I heard good things, I though 'gimme' ... and of course I though that the aptly called "galaxy Buds" app on my iPhone would work for those ... also, I have watched ton of videos and I keep reading through here and nowhere ever popped it on my radar that Samsung dropped the iOS app support.

I accused the poor shop owner where I bought it for selling me a fake because the app did not recognize it!

Besides not being able to use the basic EQ variations, or something really useful like 'block touches' .. how am I supposed to do a firmware update? Will go deep-google this now ...

They sound nice though (I am still in the first 20 minutes or so), seems I get a great fit / seal with the large OOTB tips


----------



## Juturna

tinyman392 said:


> It's in stock at Amazon now


I think I’d buy the Sparks except for the delivery date being somewhere between July 23 - August 10 and I just hate ambiguous delivery dates, July 23rd sounds decent, but August 10th is too far away. If it said July 23rd - July 25th that’d be fine too, but that date range spanning 17 days feels a bit ehhh. 

Not that I literally can’t wait but I am a bit too impatient to buy things that I need to wait more than two weeks for. Ordered a set of Earfun Free Pros and actually thought I read that the delivery date was within 4-5 days from the EU warehouse, only missed the portion where it not only was a pre-sale and wouldn’t ship until almost month later, it was also sent from China… and I’m going a bit crazy here hah.


----------



## Juturna

Caipirina said:


> What Samsung? The iOS Galaxy Buds app does NOT support the Pros? There is no app support for the pros in iOS?
> 
> So, late to the party again, as usual, I finally found an ok price on the GB Pro and since they are ipx7 and dual DD setup and overall I heard good things, I though 'gimme' ... and of course I though that the aptly called "galaxy Buds" app on my iPhone would work for those ... also, I have watched ton of videos and I keep reading through here and nowhere ever popped it on my radar that Samsung dropped the iOS app support.
> 
> ...


Oh, it’s honestly pretty well-known that they dropped the iOS support. It’s a huge shame too, probably would’ve bought a pair otherwise. Feels like it wouldn’t require too much work to make it compatible with the app, they probably just don’t want to.
The EQ stays within the earbud so if you change the EQ while the earbud is connected to an android phone, it’ll still be on that EQ setting on the iPhone AFAIK. If you have an old android phone laying around you can use that to update but yeah, a pretty huge bummer that they went that way.


----------



## Caipirina

Juturna said:


> Oh, it’s honestly pretty well-known that they dropped the iOS support. It’s a huge shame too, probably would’ve bought a pair otherwise. Feels like it wouldn’t require too much work to make it compatible with the app, they probably just don’t want to.
> The EQ stays within the earbud so if you change the EQ while the earbud is connected to an android phone, it’ll still be on that EQ setting on the iPhone AFAIK. If you have an old android phone laying around you can use that to update but yeah, a pretty huge bummer that they went that way.


Wow .. I am usually not living under a rock, but that piece of info somehow totally eluded me ... 

hm .. I have my son's old android phones here .. cracked screens and such ... let's experiment


----------



## senorbroom

Caipirina said:


> Why oh Why Samsung? The iOS Galaxy Buds app does NOT support the Pros? There is no app support for the pros in iOS?
> 
> So, late to the party again, as usual, I finally found an ok price on the GB Pro and since they are ipx7 and dual DD setup and overall I heard good things, I though 'gimme' ... and of course I though that the aptly called "galaxy Buds" app on my iPhone would work for those ... also, I have watched ton of videos and I keep reading through here and nowhere ever popped it on my radar that Samsung dropped the iOS app support.
> 
> ...


There’s an official and unofficial windows app that allows you to update firmware and change controls.


----------



## Caipirina

senorbroom said:


> There’s an official and unofficial windows app that allows you to update firmware and change controls.


ha, now i need windows   all mac here ... but thanks ... maybe time to get some android phone as a music player ...


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

Caipirina said:


> ha, now i need windows   all mac here ... but thanks ... maybe time to get some android phone as a music player ...


I used to just run a Windows VM within Mac for this kinda stuff. Well, either that or have a BootCamp partition. Was hoping that we'd see that get better over time once Apple started used Intel chips, but that never happened.

Long story short, I begrudgingly use Windows 10 and pray they don't force me onto 11 before I die.


----------



## tinyman392

Juturna said:


> I think I’d buy the Sparks except for the delivery date being somewhere between July 23 - August 10 and I just hate ambiguous delivery dates, July 23rd sounds decent, but August 10th is too far away. If it said July 23rd - July 25th that’d be fine too, but that date range spanning 17 days feels a bit ehhh.
> 
> Not that I literally can’t wait but I am a bit too impatient to buy things that I need to wait more than two weeks for. Ordered a set of Earfun Free Pros and actually thought I read that the delivery date was within 4-5 days from the EU warehouse, only missed the portion where it not only was a pre-sale and wouldn’t ship until almost month later, it was also sent from China… and I’m going a bit crazy here hah.


In the US Amazon is showing delivery for me either tomorrow or Saturday (with Prime shipping).


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

tinyman392 said:


> In the US Amazon is showing delivery for me either tomorrow or Saturday (with Prime shipping).


Think it depends on what the fulfillment center has available. Looks like I could get a black variant to arrive today, but the colored ones wouldn't get here until next Wednesday at the earliest.


----------



## erockg

Caipirina said:


> ha, now i need windows   all mac here ... but thanks ... maybe time to get some android phone as a music player ...


Download the trial version of Parallels and then install Windows 10. I have an M1 Mac and I just did that to update a few things on a Sony camera. I’m sure you can do that and it won’t cost you anything. For the M1, needed to download the preview version of Windows 10 for the M1 chip, but it worked like a charm.


----------



## jant71 (Jul 14, 2021)

What is the rational of Sparks over E16? I don't think the Moondrop will sound quite as good or fit as well and does the Moondrop have Qi wireless? Sabbat colors are better IMO. Also like the E16 case form factor better. Not that it isn't close but think they edge out in most categories.


----------



## tiagopinto (Jul 14, 2021)

MichaelScarn said:


> Hi all. New here, so if I'm posting at the wrong place, excuse me and I'll delete it.
> Currently owner of the Cambridge Audio Melomania Touch. Tried a couple of combinations with the tips and wings, but still not able to find a good, comfortable fit.
> Considering selling them and get the Sony's WF-1000XM3 instead. Any thoughts on the difference in sound quality between the two? I will be using them mainly at work or on commutes. Thanks



Hi and welcome. You’re in the right place.

I’m a happy MT owner. I use the large stock tips and fins and they work for me. If you can’t find a combo that works for you, you can search @miserybeforethemusic ’s recent posts regarding the aftermarket tips he uses, as they must fit the case for charging.

I haven’t owned the XM3, although I did try them. I know the MT are bass forward but I found the XM3 to be bass bloated muddying into the mids. I’ve read the XM4 are much more comfortable but at more than double the price. Anyway, many people like the Sony house sound, just not me.

Hope you can find misery’s tips and enjoy the MT. They’re worth it.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

tiagopinto said:


> Hi and welcome. You’re in the right place.
> 
> I’m a happy MT owner. I use the large stock tips and fins and they work for me. If you can’t find a combo that works for you, you can search @miserybeforethemusic ’s recent posts regarding the aftermarket tips he uses, as they must fit the case for charging.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the nod. I'll recap to avoid having to search.

EPro TWS00 - Get these if you need a couple extra mm of length from the nozzle to the opening of your ear canal. Smart fit, a little bit of a horn effect, but no drastic FR shifts or destruction of technical ability. Fully case-compatible

Final TWS - Closest to stock with a slightly fatter shroud and a little more grip. Fully case-compatible. Tightens up the mids a little bit, but you do have to strain to hear a difference. Very easy to clean.

Azla Crystal - Apparently now sold through Audio46 (got the email either this morning or yesterday), these are the tackiest silicone of the bunch. If the EPro aren't getting along with your ears, these would be my next recommendation. Reduces bass quantity a little, no audible destruction of the mids, treble, or technicalities.

Personally, I float between the EPro and Azla, depending on mood. Epro are less case-fussy, but all of the tips I've mentioned are case-compatible.

Furthermore, my understanding of the Sony sound signature is that bass and lower mids capitalize over just about everything else. This isn't really the case with the MT; it's significantly more balanced to my ears.


----------



## MichaelScarn

tiagopinto said:


> Hi and welcome. You’re in the right place.
> 
> I’m a happy MT owner. I use the large stock tips and fins and they work for me. If you can’t find a combo that works for you, you can search @miserybeforethemusic ’s recent posts regarding the aftermarket tips he uses, as they must fit the case for charging.
> 
> ...


Thanks so much. I’ll pass on the XM3’s for now. Was able to get a good deal on the Between Pro’s from Status, so I’ll also be checking those out and compare them to the MT’s.


----------



## MichaelScarn

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Thanks for the nod. I'll recap to avoid having to search.
> 
> EPro TWS00 - Get these if you need a couple extra mm of length from the nozzle to the opening of your ear canal. Smart fit, a little bit of a horn effect, but no drastic FR shifts or destruction of technical ability. Fully case-compatible
> 
> ...


Wow, awesome post. Thanks for the elaborate answer. I’ll look around and see if I can get any of the tips you mentioned here in The Netherlands. As I wrote in my previous post: got a good deal on the Status Between Pro’s, so I’ll be checking those out as well.


----------



## Juturna

tinyman392 said:


> In the US Amazon is showing delivery for me either tomorrow or Saturday (with Prime shipping).


Yeah I think you have a much larger stock overall in the US, I’m guessing these are sent from Moondrop themselves, I don’t even know where from. But I’m in Europe, so yeah…


----------



## rsbanner

erockg said:


> Download the trial version of Parallels and then install Windows 10. I have an M1 Mac and I just did that to update a few things on a Sony camera. I’m sure you can do that and it won’t cost you anything. For the M1, needed to download the preview version of Windows 10 for the M1 chip, but it worked like a charm.


This is a great idea!


----------



## tinyman392 (Jul 14, 2021)

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Think it depends on what the fulfillment center has available. Looks like I could get a black variant to arrive today, but the colored ones wouldn't get here until next Wednesday at the earliest.


Person I was quoting was quoting July 23-August 10 times, which would mean it's likely not in their country.  We actually have stock in the US that would deliver within a week.  Person I was quoting was given a 2-4 week wait.



Juturna said:


> Yeah I think you have a much larger stock overall in the US, I’m guessing these are sent from Moondrop themselves, I don’t even know where from. But I’m in Europe, so yeah…


Shenzhen Audio would be the distributer in this case.  I think you're getting times quoted to ship from China most likely as none of the Amazon warehouses have it in Europe yet.


----------



## dweaver

Caipirina said:


> Why oh Why Samsung? The iOS Galaxy Buds app does NOT support the Pros? There is no app support for the pros in iOS?
> 
> So, late to the party again, as usual, I finally found an ok price on the GB Pro and since they are ipx7 and dual DD setup and overall I heard good things, I though 'gimme' ... and of course I though that the aptly called "galaxy Buds" app on my iPhone would work for those ... also, I have watched ton of videos and I keep reading through here and nowhere ever popped it on my radar that Samsung dropped the iOS app support.
> 
> ...


Ya the lack of IOS support does suck for IOS users. I am pretty happy with my pair. The sound signature definitely is my wheelhouse. But I also am a Samsung user so gain the benefits of being in the Samsung family.

On the train today I have enjoyed them, but do notice the ANC not being as good as my WF-1000XM3. 

Really like them for running though, they handle wind very well in my opinion even with ANC on. The XM3 has a wind setting for ANC that sacrifices some isolation but does reduce most wind noise but these are better without needs ng to change how the ANC works. I do find I just have to turn off ANC with both if there is to much wind.

I find them extremely comfortable to wear, the pressure relief system works very well. But I am using 3rd party tips due to my big lug holes.

Wish they had the Sony battery life though.


----------



## gwompki

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Thanks for the nod. I'll recap to avoid having to search.
> 
> EPro TWS00 - Get these if you need a couple extra mm of length from the nozzle to the opening of your ear canal. Smart fit, a little bit of a horn effect, but no drastic FR shifts or destruction of technical ability. Fully case-compatible
> 
> ...


Where did you order the Final TWS tips from? I like final tips a lot in general, but can't seem to find these for sale in the US.  Got my Melomania Touch last night and the tip rolling has begun! Was disappointed to find the Spinfit CP-360 seem to be just a tad too long for reliable charging.


----------



## TK33

gwompki said:


> Where did you order the Final TWS tips from? I like final tips a lot in general, but can't seem to find these for sale in the US.  Got my Melomania Touch last night and the tip rolling has begun! Was disappointed to find the Spinfit CP-360 seem to be just a tad too long for reliable charging.


I got Final Type E tips at Audio46.  Think Bloom Audio carries some too.


----------



## gwompki

Thanks it looks like there are Type E tips and also Type E TWS tips.  I can't seem to find the TWS version at Audio46

Normal Type E with nozzle adaptors:
https://audio46.com/products/final-audio-type-e-tips-kit-with-case-and-nozzle-adaptor

Type E True Wireless (shorter nozzle)
https://www.mtmtaudio.com/products/...-for-true-wireless-bluetooth-earphone-2-pairs


----------



## samandhi

gwompki said:


> Where did you order the Final TWS tips from? I like final tips a lot in general, but can't seem to find these for sale in the US.  Got my Melomania Touch last night and the tip rolling has begun! Was disappointed to find the Spinfit CP-360 seem to be just a tad too long for reliable charging.


Really? I am surprised because that is what I use on mine and have no problems at all. When you put them away, do you hold them about an inch above the charger, lined up to fall right in place?


----------



## samandhi

gwompki said:


> Thanks it looks like there are Type E tips and also Type E TWS tips.  I can't seem to find the TWS version at Audio46
> 
> Normal Type E with nozzle adaptors:
> https://audio46.com/products/final-audio-type-e-tips-kit-with-case-and-nozzle-adaptor
> ...


Yes, it is the Final Type E TWS that you are after, the regulars ones, I can verify, are too long to fit the charger. And to hear @miserybeforethemusic tell it, the TWS version are semi-hard to get a hold of.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

gwompki said:


> Where did you order the Final TWS tips from? I like final tips a lot in general, but can't seem to find these for sale in the US.  Got my Melomania Touch last night and the tip rolling has begun! Was disappointed to find the Spinfit CP-360 seem to be just a tad too long for reliable charging.


Yeah, it's a bummer with the 360 not fitting in the MT case, but I'm personally not a fan of how they affect the MT's signature, so I didn't experiment for long with them.


gwompki said:


> Type E True Wireless (shorter nozzle)
> https://www.mtmtaudio.com/products/...-for-true-wireless-bluetooth-earphone-2-pairs


That's the place I ordered from. They seem to be pretty hard to find domestically, but MTMT is legit and they've come through for me twice now. I'd recommend.


----------



## TK33

gwompki said:


> Thanks it looks like there are Type E tips and also Type E TWS tips.  I can't seem to find the TWS version at Audio46
> 
> Normal Type E with nozzle adaptors:
> https://audio46.com/products/final-audio-type-e-tips-kit-with-case-and-nozzle-adaptor
> ...


Ah got it.  Thanks. Didnt even know there was a TWS version.  I use the regular Type E for other TWS and wasnt even aware of that version.  I will have to check them out.


----------



## senorbroom

Has anyone tried the Soundcore P3s? I still feel like I’m waiting for the perfect TWS and am wondering if something like that would tide me over.


----------



## TK33

Just an update on the Galaxy Buds Live:

I got my replacements from Samsung a while back and have been using them for calls.  I just got off a Zoom call via Windows 10 laptop and it worked great.  The invoice said they found an issue with "RX Audio" so I am guessing there was something wrong with my old ones.  They were from when they first launched so maybe something changed in more recent units or they were just defective.

The replacements look like they are probably refurbished (no new set in sealed box) but I am not complaining since they have been working great now for calls and the replacement process was very easy and did not cost me anything (except time of course).


----------



## Juturna

senorbroom said:


> Has anyone tried the Soundcore P3s? I still feel like I’m waiting for the perfect TWS and am wondering if something like that would tide me over.


No, but i was thinking of buying a pair depending on what my wallet will allow me at the end of this month. Was thinking of going really big at first (think Sony XM4 or Devialet Gemini) but I think I’m settling for something a bit lesser right now. I’ve seen all the youtubers talk about them but I still feel like I’m not getting a clear picture on how good they sound or how good they are overall.


----------



## BooleanBones (Jul 15, 2021)

TK33 said:


> Ah got it.  Thanks. Didnt even know there was a TWS version.  I use the regular Type E for other TWS and wasnt even aware of that version.  I will have to check them out.


Same here, thanks for clarifying @miserybeforethemusic. Love the finals, but wasn't sure how to stuff them in the case  For the record, I do run the standard Final type Es on the SonyXM4s and they work well with the case along with loving the sound.


----------



## SharkSkin

senorbroom said:


> Has anyone tried the Soundcore P3s? I still feel like I’m waiting for the perfect TWS and am wondering if something like that would tide me over.


Don't have the P3s, but I've got a couple of other models from Soundcore. The Liberty Pro 2 and the A2 ANC. Lots of bass with the default EQ. Personally I think it gets the job done if you don't need something that has out of this world sound. If you don't want all of that bass you can always use the custom EQ that comes on the Soundcore app both respond to EQ'ing relatively well.


----------



## SynaestheticA

senorbroom said:


> Has anyone tried the Soundcore P3s? I still feel like I’m waiting for the perfect TWS and am wondering if something like that would tide me over.


Ya boi Scarbir did a decent review on them, https://www.scarbir.com/tws/soundcore-life-p3-review

Sounds like they are pretty decent, strong bass with better treble than previous versions.


----------



## gwompki

samandhi said:


> Really? I am surprised because that is what I use on mine and have no problems at all. When you put them away, do you hold them about an inch above the charger, lined up to fall right in place?


I have not tried that method yet.  I will admit I have not really read any of the included product literature.  Is that a best practice?  I have been struggling to get  them to charge regardless of tips..  Will give it a shot.  (Apologies if this has been discussed ad nauseam previously)


----------



## samandhi

gwompki said:


> I have not tried that method yet.  I will admit I have not really read any of the included product literature.  Is that a best practice?  I have been struggling to get  them to charge regardless of tips..  Will give it a shot.  (Apologies if this has been discussed ad nauseam previously)


No apologies necessary! Yes, it seems to be the most consistent method of getting them to charge. Line them up over the case about an inch up. Then, when you drop them they will fall into place, and the magnet will pull them into the pins. I don't think this is covered in the manual, but I think this is a "customer established" practice...


----------



## gwompki

samandhi said:


> No apologies necessary! Yes, it seems to be the most consistent method of getting them to charge. Line them up over the case about an inch up. Then, when you drop them they will fall into place, and the magnet will pull them into the pins. I don't think this is covered in the manual, but I think this is a "customer established" practice...


Got it. Thanks!  I'm good with that.


----------



## Firevortex

Just got the N6 PRO2 today. Told our retailer i was going to do a review on them so i got them early  was having wine when it arrived so i thought it goes well on the plater yumm 

Need more time with them but from my initial listening the Bass is boosted, i would say about the same as the N6 Mini level and the detail/resolution has improved quite a bit compared to the old N6 Pro.


----------



## howdy

The Sennheiser CX came in today, only listened to a few songs so far. Very comfortable and great bass. I'll have to compare them to the XM4S.


----------



## samandhi

Firevortex said:


> Just got the N6 PRO2 today. Told our retailer i was going to do a review on them so i got them early  was having wine when it arrived so i thought it goes well on the plater yumm
> 
> Need more time with them but from my initial listening the Bass is boosted, i would say about the same as the N6 Mini level and the detail/resolution has improved quite a bit compared to the old N6 Pro.


Then they must be fantastic because I thought the N6P were some of the most detailed TWS I have heard to date. It was the bass that was a bit wonky to me. Not because it was a bit "lite", but it was just...... weird. I would say that they were pretty neutral except parts of the bass. So would  you say that the bass is boosted over the N6P? Eagerly awaiting your thoughts, once you have had time to let them settle?!


----------



## Nielo TM

Got that yesterday. Will be retiring my xDuoo X3 + KZ ES4. 

X3 + PFE112 still produces more authentic audio (useful for critical listening), but H1 is so much more "fun" to listen to, and its difficult to notice bandwidth differences thanks to AptX Adaptive. First TWS I owned where I didn't immediately jumped to EQ or felt like I made a trade off.

Amazing how quickly TWS is progressing. Especially on the cost effective front. H1 has features even the high ends don't.


----------



## AmericanSpirit

Anyone tried soundpeats gamer no.1?

I have a favorite Japan-based IEM reviewer, he usuallyi reviews those big names but this time the reviewer commented “one of best positioning and uniformed diffusion field”.

I can understand thesedays the manufacturer tags “for gaming” for better sales even for their regular line-ups. Good example was Final Audio VR3000 for gaming, I found it has very higu positioning fidelity as well as natural timbre. Reproduction.

I heard the Gamer No.1 has ideal loudness curve to simulate realistic free field.

Here is the translated review. It intrigued my interest.
https://www-ear--phone--review-com....x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en&_x_tr_pto=ajax,nv,elem


----------



## bizkid (Jul 16, 2021)

howdy said:


> The Sennheiser CX came in today, only listened to a few songs so far. Very comfortable and great bass. I'll have to compare them to the XM4S.



I bought mine today too.. pretty dissapointed so far. Bass isnt that good/punchy/textured, imaging is very 2d (but what do you expect at that pricepoint), mids and treble are veiled. Atleast its not offensive in upper mids and treble. Probably going back.

EDIT: I'm curious how you would compare it to the XM4 in tonality. XM4 might be too veiled for me.


----------



## gwompki

jant71 said:


> What is the rational of Sparks over E16? I don't think the Moondrop will sound quite as good or fit as well and does the Moondrop have Qi wireless? Sabbat colors are better IMO. Also like the E16 case form factor better. Not that it isn't close but think they edge out in most categories.


Sorry for the late reply on this one.  Still getting caught up after the past few days.  I don't know much about the E16, and haven't seen much written about it here.  I'm not opposed to trying it out.  On paper looks pretty good.  Do you own a set?


----------



## gwompki

I'm still letting my ears adjust to the CA Melomania Touch.  After a week with the Moondrop Sparks this is a vastly different sound signature.  So far the only thing I can definitively say is I LOVE the comfort and  stability of these.  They fit really well and don't stick out like most IEMs do in my weird shaped ears.


----------



## nekonhime

gwompki said:


> I'm still letting my ears adjust to the CA Melomania Touch.  After a week with the Moondrop Sparks this is a vastly different sound signature.  So far the only thing I can definitively say is I LOVE the comfort and  stability of these.  They fit really well and don't stick out like most IEMs do in my weird shaped ears.


So the spark is better than CA Melomania?


----------



## gwompki

nekonhime said:


> So the spark is better than CA Melomania?


Definitely not saying either one is better at this point.  Way too early for that.  Just two very different animals.


----------



## jant71

gwompki said:


> Sorry for the late reply on this one.  Still getting caught up after the past few days.  I don't know much about the E16, and haven't seen much written about it here.  I'm not opposed to trying it out.  On paper looks pretty good.  Do you own a set?


Yep. It is my favorite for sound so far. I will compare to the N6 Pro 2 when they get here. They have a proven driver and have the magnetostat treble which hits the spot if you are tired of the safe treble tunings that are out there. Part of why it is clearly the best sounding for me though is they have a great synergy with the Hidiz AP80. Had stopped using that player but the two love each other so I seems to use that combo exclusively. Yes, the MSEB sound suite can help tune and tweak an earphone towards its best sound because there are note thickness, speed, and sibilance controls but this is both the EQ and MSEB off.


----------



## GloriousGenMacArthur

AmericanSpirit said:


> I heard the Gamer No.1 has ideal loudness curve to simulate realistic free field.


I am looking for a new set of TWS, I'll read the review. Thanks for the heads up!


----------



## AmericanSpirit

GloriousGenMacArthur said:


> I am looking for a new set of TWS, I'll read the review. Thanks for the heads up!


Actually I ordered from Amazon Japan👍 Arriving on 7/26, will share impression.


----------



## AmericanSpirit (Jul 16, 2021)

nekonhime said:


> So the spark is better than CA Melomania?


Here is basic characteristics of Sparks:
-Wide sound stage
-vocal-focused with harman tuning for lower and upper register
-decent technicalities as expected from Moondrop line-up
-long nozzle may serve a more direct sound image and better isolation with a cost of fit issue for smaller canal individuals
-5.2


----------



## jant71

gwompki said:


> I'm still letting my ears adjust to the CA Melomania Touch.  After a week with the Moondrop Sparks this is a vastly different sound signature.  So far the only thing I can definitively say is I LOVE the comfort and  stability of these.  They fit really well and don't stick out like most IEMs do in my weird shaped ears.


Do they pass the back pockets test. Especially interesting if they fit more flush so the antenna would be in the ear more. I would worry about turning the head in one direction or another while in a pocket.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

jant71 said:


> Do they pass the back pockets test. Especially interesting if they fit more flush so the antenna would be in the ear more. I would worry about turning the head in one direction or another while in a pocket.


The CF01 and the ADVs seem to be the only two that don't like back pockets in my collection. MTs do just fine.


----------



## jant71 (Jul 16, 2021)

miserybeforethemusic said:


> The CF01 and the ADVs seem to be the only two that don't like back pockets in my collection. MTs do just fine.


Yeah, but that is the Touch not the Sparks. To be fair that post could be talking about either being flush fitting but I took it to be the Sparks lol.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

jant71 said:


> Yeah, but that is the Touch not the Sparks. To be fair that post could be talking about either being flush fitting but I took it to be the Sparks lol.


My mistake for misreading, then. I guess I can't see how the Sparks would sit flush in anyone but Shaq's ears.


----------



## jant71

miserybeforethemusic said:


> My mistake for misreading, then. I guess I can't see how the Sparks would sit flush in anyone but Shaq's ears.


Probably meant the Touch in that comment but the Touch is not in question as far as reception. Looking at the sound tubes the Sparks wouldn't be the flush ones.


----------



## C_Lindbergh

Still waiting for the new CA MT firmware! 👀


----------



## bladefd

C_Lindbergh said:


> Still waiting for the new CA MT firmware! 👀


Same. I will do rma afterwards.. I want to see what changes they make before doing the rma to fix the issue. I have recently noticed a new issue over last 10 days - the right earbud doesn't properly light up when I insert it into the case. I think the indicator light might be close to dying... Luckily it charges well ever since I cleaned/re-inserted the eartips, but still sucks to not be able to tell if charging began.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

C_Lindbergh said:


> Still waiting for the new CA MT firmware! 👀


Hopefully not much longer. I submitted my feedback on both the new firmware and app last week.


bladefd said:


> Same. I will do rma afterwards.. I want to see what changes they make before doing the rma to fix the issue. I have recently noticed a new issue over last 10 days - the right earbud doesn't properly light up when I insert it into the case. I think the indicator light might be close to dying... Luckily it charges well ever since I cleaned/re-inserted the eartips, but still sucks to not be able to tell if charging began.


That's a weird one. What phone is it paired to? Shouldn't make much of a difference, but it's something I can feed back


----------



## jant71

Firevortex said:


> Just got the N6 PRO2 today. Told our retailer i was going to do a review on them so i got them early  was having wine when it arrived so i thought it goes well on the plater yumm
> 
> Need more time with them but from my initial listening the Bass is boosted, i would say about the same as the N6 Mini level and the detail/resolution has improved quite a bit compared to the old N6 Pro.


Any comment on the stage size openness yet?  Sounds pretty good I think. Seems at least some would like a bit more bass and bass reach from the first Pro.


----------



## bladefd

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Hopefully not much longer. I submitted my feedback on both the new firmware and app last week.
> 
> That's a weird one. What phone is it paired to? Shouldn't make much of a difference, but it's something I can feed back


Google pixel 3. The light basically flickers usually, but sometimes it does not light up at all.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

bladefd said:


> Google pixel 3. The light basically flickers usually, but sometimes it does not light up at all.


Just RMA it, bud. I wouldn't feel right telling you to hold off of they're causing you grief like this.

I can at least say things should get better on the new firmware. Some of the fixes are directed towards case behavior. Just don't have any change notes I can share at the moment.

Hope that's not over-sharing, but figure it'd bring some peace of mind.


----------



## gwompki

jant71 said:


> Probably meant the Touch in that comment but the Touch is not in question as far as reception. Looking at the sound tubes the Sparks wouldn't be the flush ones.


Sorry.  You are correct I was referring to the MT when I was talking about comfort and stability.  I have had zero problems with stability with the Sparks, but haven't actually tried the back pocket test.  They do stick way out of my ears though lol.  Honestly at my age (40+) my concern for personal appearance when working out is minimal


----------



## gwompki

jant71 said:


> Yep. It is my favorite for sound so far. I will compare to the N6 Pro 2 when they get here. They have a proven driver and have the magnetostat treble which hits the spot if you are tired of the safe treble tunings that are out there. Part of why it is clearly the best sounding for me though is they have a great synergy with the Hidiz AP80. Had stopped using that player but the two love each other so I seems to use that combo exclusively. Yes, the MSEB sound suite can help tune and tweak an earphone towards its best sound because there are note thickness, speed, and sibilance controls but this is both the EQ and MSEB off.


Will have to check out the E16.  Interesting it hasn't gotten more press here.  Looking forward to your impressions of N6 Pro 2.


----------



## Darkestred

Dudes (and dudettes) with MT.  Have you been noticing that the MT will say Power on - Battery high.  Then you go to play something and nothing plays because they turned off?  This is new for me.  Lets get that firmware, baby!!!


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

Darkestred said:


> Dudes (and dudettes) with MT.  Have you been noticing that the MT will say Power on - Battery high.  Then you go to play something and nothing plays because they turned off?  This is new for me.  Lets get that firmware, baby!!!


I hope they're close. No news, though.


----------



## samandhi

Darkestred said:


> Dudes (and dudettes) with MT.  Have you been noticing that the MT will say Power on - Battery high.  Then you go to play something and nothing plays because they turned off?  This is new for me.  Lets get that firmware, baby!!!


I have had that issue twice since I owned them, but it was ALWAYS on just one. I put it back in the charger for a few seconds, that then it worked as normal.


----------



## Darkestred

samandhi said:


> I have had that issue twice since I owned them, but it was ALWAYS on just one. I put it back in the charger for a few seconds, that then it worked as normal.



Its crazy.  Ive been using them more lately for calls and it happens about every time.  I'll have to try that.  I never bring charger on the go.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

Darkestred said:


> Its crazy.  Ive been using them more lately for calls and it happens about every time.  I'll have to try that.  I never bring charger on the go.


When's the last time you did a hard reset of the buds? I know it's not ideal, but usually worked out the gremlins in mine.


----------



## senorbroom

It looks like we’ve got a couple of interesting mid-range releases happening soon:

OnePlus Buds Pro (late July)
Nothing Ear (1) (late July)
Galaxy Buds 2 (mid August)


----------



## StephenTiger

senorbroom said:


> It looks like we’ve got a couple of interesting mid-range releases happening soon:
> 
> OnePlus Buds Pro (late July)
> Nothing Ear (1) (late July)
> Galaxy Buds 2 (mid August)


Awesome! Looking forward!


----------



## samandhi

senorbroom said:


> It looks like we’ve got a couple of interesting mid-range releases happening soon:
> 
> OnePlus Buds Pro (late July)
> Nothing Ear (1) (late July)
> Galaxy Buds 2 (mid August)


I just read somewhere (not sure how true it is) on the web that OnePlus had a shipment confiscated because they were JUST like Apple's buds. Might have just been click-bait though. 

I also saw an article saying that they could be mostly transparent (design leak, or photoshop?). HERE


----------



## howdy

bizkid said:


> I bought mine today too.. pretty dissapointed so far. Bass isnt that good/punchy/textured, imaging is very 2d (but what do you expect at that pricepoint), mids and treble are veiled. Atleast its not offensive in upper mids and treble. Probably going back.
> 
> EDIT: I'm curious how you would compare it to the XM4 in tonality. XM4 might be too veiled for me.


No disrespect, your entitled to your opinion but I totally disagree. These are great at there price point and are a keeper for me. I'm not a critical person, if I pop them in and they sound good they are a keeper. I think the bass is pretty tight and the vocals are good but not great but overall acceptable. 
I'm totally happy with my purchase and recommend them to anyone!


----------



## chinmie

samandhi said:


> I just read somewhere (not sure how true it is) on the web that OnePlus had a shipment confiscated because they were JUST like Apple's buds. Might have just been click-bait though.
> 
> I also saw an article saying that they could be mostly transparent (design leak, or photoshop?). HERE



I've read that too. if i remember correctly it's just misunderstanding or lack of information from the airport security for thinking that it's an airpod counterfeits


----------



## samandhi

bizkid said:


> I bought mine today too.. pretty dissapointed so far. Bass isnt that good/punchy/textured, imaging is very 2d (but what do you expect at that pricepoint), mids and treble are veiled. Atleast its not offensive in upper mids and treble. Probably going back.
> 
> EDIT: I'm curious how you would compare it to the XM4 in tonality. XM4 might be too veiled for me.



Just my 2 cents, but if they are much different than what you normally listen to, it is IMO that you give them about a week or two. They MAY not sound good even after that, but a lot of times your brain is expecting something and if it is different and you dismiss them out of hand immediately, you might have otherwise liked. I try to give each pair at least two weeks of listening time because I don't want all of mine to sound like each other, I want contrasting (complimenting) pairs for different moods/music. 

When I first got the N6Pro, I absolutely hated them (you can search this thread for my comments about them), but after a few weeks, I now really love them for TWS. But, just a suggestion.


----------



## samandhi

chinmie said:


> I've read that too. if i remember correctly it's just misunderstanding or lack of information from the airport security for thinking that it's an airpod counterfeits


Ah! So, click-bait because IIRC the article was titled to make it look like it was a forgone conclusion, and that they were guilty of something. I hadn't seen that it was called a misunderstanding (of course the author left that part out)...


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

samandhi said:


> Ah! So, click-bait because IIRC the article was titled to make it look like it was a forgone conclusion, and that they were guilty of something. I hadn't seen that it was called a misunderstanding (of course the author left that part out)...


Makes perfect sense for a society that tends to only read the headline in the first place.

OnePlus' buds have been pretty hit or miss. I had whatever pair they made right before the TWS (neckband, buds magnetically clicked together and auto-paused) and that was pretty cool, but tuned way out of whack. If you go by reviewer opinions, the original OP Buds are okay-ish, but there's a lot that outperformed it. Trend analysis tells me it'll be more of the same.

We're not their target market for sure.


----------



## chinmie

samandhi said:


> Ah! So, click-bait because IIRC the article was titled to make it look like it was a forgone conclusion, and that they were guilty of something. I hadn't seen that it was called a misunderstanding (of course the author left that part out)...



i did a quick research as i was curious myself:
https://www.theverge.com/platform/a...t-oneplus-buds-seized-apple-airpod-trademarks

https://techcrunch.com/2020/09/13/cbp-seized-oneplus-buds-apple-airpods/amp/


----------



## CocaCola15

Darkestred said:


> Dudes (and dudettes) with MT.  Have you been noticing that the MT will say Power on - Battery high.  Then you go to play something and nothing plays because they turned off?  This is new for me.  Lets get that firmware, baby!!!


Not happening here. But looking forward to new FW anyway.


----------



## bizkid

samandhi said:


> Just my 2 cents, but if they are much different than what you normally listen to, it is IMO that you give them about a week or two. They MAY not sound good even after that, but a lot of times your brain is expecting something and if it is different and you dismiss them out of hand immediately, you might have otherwise liked. I try to give each pair at least two weeks of listening time because I don't want all of mine to sound like each other, I want contrasting (complimenting) pairs for different moods/music.
> 
> When I first got the N6Pro, I absolutely hated them (you can search this thread for my comments about them), but after a few weeks, I now really love them for TWS. But, just a suggestion.


You're absolutely right, I used them yesterday the whole day and started to appreciate them more. I will take some time to evaluate them properly and post my impressions here after 1-2 weeks.


----------



## samandhi

bizkid said:


> You're absolutely right, I used them yesterday the whole day and started to appreciate them more. I will take some time to evaluate them properly and post my impressions here after 1-2 weeks.


Good for you!


----------



## HaliHarry

Can anyone tell me that Is B&W Pi7 suitable for vocals? Iam hesitating between Pi7 and Sennheiser mtw 2. Thank all


----------



## HaliHarry

I heard that Pi7 is too v-shape


----------



## Firevortex (Jul 17, 2021)

I had a few hours of initial listening session with the N6 PRO2 last night and were able to A/B it with the N10 Pro and the N6 PRO.
Using my S20Ultra i was able to do a dual output comparison on 2 pairs of wireless at the same time so a quicks switch is easy. The N6 Pro2 can do 48khz/24bit if your player supports it (mine didn't). Its still early as i was told those need some burn-in but against the N10 Pro the detail and resolution is on par if not a bit more detailed due to the fact the sound stage is smaller and the vocals are forward and in your face like the old N6 Pro. To me N10 Pro music presentation gives you a big 3D image that appears outside the ear like a concert hall while the N6 Pro2 is like going into a music studio listening next to the artist with every detail close and personal, i could pick out new details in the song that wasn't there in the N10 Pro. i think its partly due to the 16k peak which bring out quite a bit of detail but can be annoying at times if there is a lot of drum snares and can sound bright on some tracks.  Everything sounds forward and intermate. However the N10 Pro still wins hands down in sound stage, separation and more natural organic presentation of the music. The 3D soundstage of the N10 pro doesn't make it feel like your wearing IEMs.

N6 PRO vs N6 PRO2 i'm comparing a well used N6 pro to a few hours old N6 PRO2 i'm pretty sure sound will change in a week or so. the biggest difference is the BASS its a lot more punchy and deep into the sub bass you can feel it rumble on the PRO2 with out bleeding into the mids. the over all sound stage stayed the same and the vocal presentation is the same forward inside your head position. beside the bass boost the treble has been boosted as well while retaining the warm mids of the old N6 Pro. This boost gives you a lot more detail in songs and will change the warm smooth sound signature of the old N6 Pro to a more dynamic analytical sound. Its like N10 Pro's clarity been superimposed forward with a narrower soundstage so you hear the details close up. The old N6 pro sounds veiled and warm compare to the new. i'm not sure if this is a good thing because some people likes HD600s with their warmer veiled sound signature. with badly recorded or mp3s tracks the N6 Pro2 will not be as good because it picks up the flaws more.

As you guys can see from my sig the headphones i own are all big on sound stage and have a slightly brighter sound signature. I have no experience with expensive IEMS so i can't really relate to them. however, I'm a headphone guy so i can relate the N10 pro to the likes of the Arya in terms of presentation that's why i like it so much. This is my preference, some prefer a more forward and intimate headphone like the he6se/LCD X with lots of resolution and heavier bass the N6 Pro2 would be for you. For $140USD and 10hrs play time it would certainly punch above its weight class.

this is my initial compare so will do a proper write up in a week when i get more time.



samandhi said:


> Then they must be fantastic because I thought the N6P were some of the most detailed TWS I have heard to date. It was the bass that was a bit wonky to me. Not because it was a bit "lite", but it was just...... weird. I would say that they were pretty neutral except parts of the bass. So would  you say that the bass is boosted over the N6P? Eagerly awaiting your thoughts, once you have had time to let them settle?!



oh, then i think you'll love it. A lot more analytical, slightly bright (might get better over time) with a heavy bass.



jant71 said:


> Any comment on the stage size openness yet?  Sounds pretty good I think. Seems at least some would like a bit more bass and bass reach from the first Pro.



sound stage is the same. forward presentation of the vocals is the same. yes the bass is pumped up quite a bit and hits a lot harder.


----------



## krenzler

This is a nice group comparison of many of the most popular tws. Still curious about the KEF’s.


----------



## potix

HaliHarry said:


> Can anyone tell me that Is B&W Pi7 suitable for vocals? Iam hesitating between Pi7 and Sennheiser mtw 2. Thank all


Vocals are the best I've heard, these buds have an awesome midrange to low treble, but you have to eq them as with stock tuning they are slightly recessed.


----------



## natalieann

I still stand by the beoplay E8 sport. Sound incredible


----------



## SemiAudiophile

Firevortex said:


> I had a few hours of initial listening session with the N6 PRO2 last night and were able to A/B it with the N10 Pro and the N6 PRO.
> Using my S20Ultra i was able to do a dual output comparison on 2 pairs of wireless at the same time so a quicks switch is easy. The N6 Pro2 can do 48khz/24bit if your player supports it (mine didn't). Its still early as i was told those need some burn-in but against the N10 Pro the detail and resolution is on par if not a bit more detailed due to the fact the sound stage is smaller and the vocals are forward and in your face like the old N6 Pro. To me N10 Pro music presentation gives you a big 3D image that appears outside the ear like a concert hall while the N6 Pro2 is like going into a music studio listening next to the artist with every detail close and personal, i could pick out new details in the song that wasn't there in the N10 Pro. i think its partly due to the 16k peak which bring out quite a bit of detail but can be annoying at times if there is a lot of drum snares and can sound bright on some tracks.  Everything sounds forward and intermate. However the N10 Pro still wins hands down in sound stage, separation and more natural organic presentation of the music. The 3D soundstage of the N10 pro doesn't make it feel like your wearing IEMs.
> 
> N6 PRO vs N6 PRO2 i'm comparing a well used N6 pro to a few hours old N6 PRO2 i'm pretty sure sound will change in a week or so. the biggest difference is the BASS its a lot more punchy and deep into the sub bass you can feel it rumble on the PRO2 with out bleeding into the mids. the over all sound stage stayed the same and the vocal presentation is the same forward inside your head position. beside the bass boost the treble has been boosted as well while retaining the warm mids of the old N6 Pro. This boost gives you a lot more detail in songs and will change the warm smooth sound signature of the old N6 Pro to a more dynamic analytical sound. Its like N10 Pro's clarity been superimposed forward with a narrower soundstage so you hear the details close up. The old N6 pro sounds veiled and warm compare to the new. i'm not sure if this is a good thing because some people likes HD600s with their warmer veiled sound signature. with badly recorded or mp3s tracks the N6 Pro2 will not be as good because it picks up the flaws more.
> ...


How is the ANC on the N10 pro? Hopefully Nuarl, Sony, Senn, AKG, or CA can come up with something in the next couple years. 

I'm still waiting on a TWS with good ANC comparable to full size headphones. Like Bose, Sony, Airpod Max. 

Used my ER4's on the plane and while the passive isolation was probably the best you could get next to ear plugs. It still wasn't enough to drown out the plane engine noise. It's only good enough for indoors with AC running.


----------



## Juturna

I've been testing out the Earfun Free Pro - Oluv Edition just a little while now, got them this thursday but have been occupied with other stuff during the weekend, so today is the first day where i've done some real world testing.

Some of you probably know that they're supposed to be fairly neutral sounding, not in the strictest sense but they were supposed to be tuned by ear and not just by a frequency graph. 

I like them, and I might need some time to get used to them, but I don't think neutral is the sound signature that I'm really after. It really does sound good with certain types of music, but at the same time it lacks both in bass and in treble for my taste. I like that they're pretty much never harsh, and vocals are very clear, probably most noticeable to me because they're not as V-shaped as many of the other earbuds i've tried. The soundstage is pretty average, but the separation and positioning seems to be very good, and listening to a track i've heard plenty of times before I can absolutely make out some vocal overdubs and the effects processing on them which i've never actually thought about in that track before because it just hasn't been audible to me.

What I don't enjoy is the fact that a lot of music just lack a little bit of something, it has a tendency to sound a bit dull to my ears, probably because the lack of sparkle in the treble and a bass response that is... well, it's definitely not non-existent, it's just not enough for a lot of the music that I enjoy. It's by no means incapable of producing some bass, but it's still not enough to my ears. I can hear the bass, but I can't really feel it, if that makes sense? I'm not a basshead by any means but I do like it when there is some more heft to the bass as long as it's not all loose and wobbly, a more dynamic sound, I guess.
However I still enjoy some clear mids because vocals are important to me as well. What tuning am I even after when I really enjoy when there's sparkle in the highs, some extra heft to the bass but without letting the mids suffer too much for it?

The sound might grow on me, and it's definitely a clear sound but i'm not over the moon over them YET. My ears/brain might just need some time to adapt to them and I might enjoy them more soon, I would say that it was worth the money for what's on offer, but I could see myself probably enjoying the regular Earfun Free Pros more than these, I haven't had the chance to try those unfortunately.
If I had an android phone and could use a system-wide EQ I could probably make them sound fantastic to my ears but since i'm on iPhone I don't have that option.

We'll see where my money goes from here, I am looking for the next earbuds that i'm going to order though, kinda have these shortlisted right now:

*Status Between Pro
Soundcore Life P3
Moondrop Sparks
Soundpeats H1
Melomania Touch
Lypertek Pureplay Z3
Edifier Neobuds Pro*

And then some of the heavy-hitters that I don't think I can quite afford at the moment but might if I see different at the end of the month:
*Sony WF-1000XM4
Devialet Gemini*


----------



## dweaver

Will have a pair of Status Between Pro maybe by end of the week will give some impressions then.


----------



## Canabuc

miserybeforethemusic said:


> As an all-rounder, I honestly thought the 85t had it. They're certainly not the sonic best, but they do so much of the day-to-day stuff right that I tend to overlook it. If it's an alternative you're after, though, possibly the CA MT if you're looking to stay in the bassier realm or possibly find a set of UE FITS if they go back on crazy sale (seems to be happening a lot lately) if you're after something closer to a reference-level signature. I do have and like the CX400BT, but they're pretty much a sound-only TWS as far as I'm concerned, so they don't make muster for me.
> 
> Hopefully that helps!



My Huawei free buds pro are still my favorite all rounder.
The upcoming Edifier sound interesting but between my KBear Ks1,moondrop Aria and the Huawei I have all my mobile audio needs covered.

@dweaver I love all of the galaxy buds pro except the fit was terrible and hurt despite trying 10 different tips. Glad they first you better.


----------



## dweaver

Thanks @Canabuc I am glad they fit me well. They are actually one of the most comfortable TWS I own, so am grateful they have worked out that way. I was more than a bit concerned they would not fit well as many people have struggled with their fit. Sonically they have really grown on me.

Going to be interesting when the Status Between show up. Might have to do a bit of a showcase of all the models I have on hand then do some selling LOL.


----------



## Firevortex (Jul 17, 2021)

SemiAudiophile said:


> How is the ANC on the N10 pro? Hopefully Nuarl, Sony, Senn, AKG, or CA can come up with something in the next couple years.
> 
> I'm still waiting on a TWS with good ANC comparable to full size headphones. Like Bose, Sony, Airpod Max.
> 
> Used my ER4's on the plane and while the passive isolation was probably the best you could get next to ear plugs. It still wasn't enough to drown out the plane engine noise. It's only good enough for indoors with AC running.



ANC on the N10 Pro isn't the best. I rarely use it as i don't travel much those days due to all the lockdowns.  It cancels out mid to lower frequencies well enough but leaving a metallic sounding after effect of the outside noise.  i've compared it with the BOSE QC it has the best ANC for TWE i've used at the time. I don't think the ANC level will reach headphone level anytime soon. Not even the best wired ANC IEMs will perform on par with headphones you listed. Going by reviews the BOSE QC and the XM4s might be the best choice for ANC atm.


----------



## nekonhime

Firevortex said:


> ANC on the N10 Pro isn't the best. I rarely use it as i don't travel much those days due to all the lockdowns.  It cancels out mid to lower frequencies well enough but leaving a metallic sounding after effect of the outside noise.  i've compared it with the BOSE QC it has the best ANC for TWE i've used at the time. I don't think the ANC level will reach headphone level anytime soon. Not even the best wired ANC IEMs will perform on par with headphones you listed. Going by reviews the BOSE QC and the XM4s might be the best choice for ANC atm.


I used to own both the nuarl n10 pro and sony wf 1000xm4. The ANC strength of the n10 pro is probably about 65-70% of the sony 1000xm4 (both with stock plugs). Also, the 1000xm4 will make you in the sudden quiet place which quite creepy if you are not used to it.


----------



## bizkid

Yesterday when I changed the tips of my Sennheiser CX TWS one of the foam inserts fell out. I guess these aren't glued in. Can I expect more clarity when removing these and would they alter the sound in a negative way otherwise? Sennheiser surely used these for a reason. Anyway I'm not at home right now and worry to loose them when I take them out right now so i can't try.


----------



## samandhi

bizkid said:


> Yesterday when I changed the tips of my Sennheiser CX TWS one of the foam inserts fell out. I guess these aren't glued in. Can I expect more clarity when removing these and would they alter the sound in a negative way otherwise? Sennheiser surely used these for a reason. Anyway I'm not at home right now and worry to loose them when I take them out right now so i can't try.


I would say yes it will change the sound. But whether it is negative is dependent on what you are looking for. If the foam was what was surrounding the stem, but is now gone, then yes you will get more clarity, because highs have less energy than lower end, and foam will dampen the highs but allow the lows. With a smooth surface surrounding the stem, you will get the highs and the lows as much as the TWS was tuned for. Hope that makes sense?!


----------



## assassin10000

Just for kicks in the last AE sale I ordered a pair of large tips (I wear typically use small to medium-small) so I could finally take a good measurement of my Mavin Air-XR. I knew the bass was emphasized but I didn't fully realize how much.

I also included how they measure after I apply EQ to my preferences for long sessions. Apparently I like a signature similar to Diffuse Field.


----------



## potix

Juturna said:


> I've been testing out the Earfun Free Pro - Oluv Edition just a little while now, got them this thursday but have been occupied with other stuff during the weekend, so today is the first day where i've done some real world testing.
> 
> Some of you probably know that they're supposed to be fairly neutral sounding, not in the strictest sense but they were supposed to be tuned by ear and not just by a frequency graph.
> 
> ...


Everyone's ears are different. Despite of the fact that he knows and says it in his videos he is getting more and more confident that his tuning will meet tastes of most people, because many have been persuaded.
The bass is like an addiction, the more you are used to have the higher your brain will shift the tolerance threshold. It's very subjective.
The treble is dependent from peaks sensitivity of each one. He always talks about resonances at 5/6k so maybe something in his ears canal makes the resonance point shift down or maybe he doesn't like a deeper insertion, or both. The solution for him is to lower everything between 6k and 10k, that's why those buds sound dull to you.


----------



## Juturna

potix said:


> Everyone's ears are different. Despite of the fact that he knows and says it in his videos he is getting more and more confident that his tuning will meet tastes of most people, because many have been persuaded.
> The bass is like an addiction, the more you are used to have the higher your brain will shift the tolerance threshold. It's very subjective.
> The treble is dependent from peaks sensitivity of each one. He always talks about resonances at 5/6k so maybe something in his ears canal makes the resonance point shift down or maybe he doesn't like a deeper insertion, or both. The solution for him is to lower everything between 6k and 10k, that's why those buds sound dull to you.


Yeah, you’re absolutely right. I definitely think the way they fit makes a huge difference. 
At the same time I’ve really come to realize what a big difference it makes when you’re coming from one sound signature to another, it usually sounds pretty bad until your brain (or ears???) have gotten used to what the music you like sounds like on the new earbuds.

Because I’m definitely coming around on these. I don’t think they could be my endgame since I still feel like some types of music lends itself better to having more bass and treble, but honestly, these do sound very good! I thought they couldn’t deliver heavy bass but they absolutely can if the track was produced and mixed that way. 
I actually even feel like I am hearing a better bass response than I did the first couple of usesIs this purely my brain getting used to it or is it some mechanical thing with the driver units? I mean I seem to recall burn-in being a bit of a myth. 

There are some genres where I would want a bit more bass, surprisingly not necessarily electronic music, but more in the death metal/metalcore genres where it just lacks this little bit of “oomph” in the lower end that just rounds out the sound and makes it just slightly warmer and cleaner-sounding (I mean, that’s just my preference I guess).

But yes, I’ve watched some of Oluvs videos and I think he does a good job and these earbuds are 100% worth the $69 or so that I paid for them, but I can get annoyed at his inability to understand why people could enjoy earbuds that aren’t aiming at being neutral-sounding.

I think I have some weirdly shaped ear canals where I for sure can fit most if not all earbuds in there, but I don’t think I’m getting the best sound or fit from them. I tried switching to a pair of deeper-fitting tips on these and they really sounded more full, slightly warmer and more lively, but they wouldn’t fit in the case with them on. I think these are also just made to go actually have a shallow fit, and I'm used to just shoving my earbuds as deep into my ears as I can, hah.


----------



## potix

I can confirm from personal experience that burn-in is a myth in iems, it is necessary on loudspeakers sometimes.


----------



## jant71

potix said:


> I can confirm from personal experience that burn-in is a myth in iems, it is necessary on loudspeakers sometimes.


Go away with the burn-in stuff. Every thread in audio, like ever, has been derailed by burn-in arguments. How about people just keep it to themselves. Never settles it. People believe what they experience and no one is convinced by words in a thread.


----------



## potix

Well Juturna wrote "I actually even feel like I am hearing a better bass response than I did the first couple of usesIs this purely my brain getting used to it or is it some mechanical thing with the driver units?". He doesn't look like a believer and I think that it's a typical brain burn-in, so I tried to help. Even if iems drivers burn-in have an effect it can't change that much, never documented and never experimented by me.


----------



## jsmiller58

potix said:


> Well Juturna wrote "I actually even feel like I am hearing a better bass response than I did the first couple of usesIs this purely my brain getting used to it or is it some mechanical thing with the driver units?". He doesn't look like a believer and I think that it's a typical brain burn-in, so I tried to help. Even if iems drivers burn-in have an effect it can't change that much, never documented and never experimented by me.


This is akin to a religious debate…. Best left alone.


----------



## GeekGirl

I've owned my N6 PRO for a few weeks now and I was happy until yesterday. That's when my hand inadvertently brushed against my right ear and the N6 PRO performed an unplanned mechanical drop test onto my asphalt driveway. The right-side unit was dead; as in no audio, no response to buttons, and most importantly, no charging indicator on the case. So, it's d-e-a-d. 

The height of the drop was around 1.5 m ("ear level"). A google search shows absolutely nothing on shock and vibration standards for IEMs, or headphones for that matter. I did find a random article (5 Top True Wireless Earbuds That Don’t Break Easily) which was very clear that earbuds are expected to withstand drops from ear level. So, I did not abuse anything and expect this to be covered as a defective unit.

I'm within Amazon's 30-day return policy "for any reason" and they're going back tomorrow. A replacement will arrive the day after.

Of course, audio performance is top priority. However, there are other factors which can influence a purchase decision - water resistance comes to mind. Unless I missed it, I don't see any information in this forum or elsewhere that discusses engineering specifications for "shock and vibration" standards. Does anyone have a good reference?


----------



## samandhi

potix said:


> Well Juturna wrote "I actually even feel like I am hearing a better bass response than I did the first couple of usesIs this purely my brain getting used to it or is it some mechanical thing with the driver units?". He doesn't look like a believer and I think that it's a typical brain burn-in, so I tried to help. Even if iems drivers burn-in have an effect it can't change that much, never documented and never experimented by me.


I think what people are trying to say is that passing your beliefs off as fact can easily offend many people here. The best thing to do when talking about burn-in, or anything considered religious for audiophiles, is to let them know that you don't know if it is true or not, but your belief is that..... 

Because both sides of the camp can come up with compelling arguments for their side and argument.


----------



## Juturna (Jul 18, 2021)

potix said:


> Well Juturna wrote "I actually even feel like I am hearing a better bass response than I did the first couple of usesIs this purely my brain getting used to it or is it some mechanical thing with the driver units?". He doesn't look like a believer and I think that it's a typical brain burn-in, so I tried to help. Even if iems drivers burn-in have an effect it can't change that much, never documented and never experimented by me.


I personally have no gripes with what you said, and you were right (in the way you interpreted what I wrote). I know that i've read so much about it not being something that physically changes the sound of the earbuds but rather something you experience yourself through almost "conditioning" your brain and therefore your ears, to a new sound signature. But yes, if it's too much of a controversial subject, we should just let it rest.

However, I realized why they sounded better to me at some times but worse at others. For some reason these earbuds sound way better with the ANC turned on rather than off, and it really does change how I perceive the sound. My other earbuds are the exact opposite, ANC degrades the sound by quite a bit! Or I mean, it's possible that ANC degrades the sound here too, however it's not perceivable to my ears and they sound a lot more "full". So I think I just tried to keep them at ANC off because I thought they would for sure sound better like that, and since the ANC isn't particularly good I just figured it was going to be better that way... but nope.

Edit: Nope, I quit. They sound good now with ANC off. Why the hell did they sound so tinny and horrible when I was on my way into town with zero bass and now they sound so damn good when i'm sitting at home? Don't really get it.


----------



## assassin10000

Juturna said:


> Edit: Nope, I quit. They sound good now with ANC off. Why the hell did they sound so tinny and horrible when I was on my way into town with zero bass and now they sound so damn good when i'm sitting at home? Don't really get it.


Because of the environment and level of ambient noise.

I use the ANC on my buds live in the car but turn it off otherwise. It cuts low level rumble and boosts the bass at the same time, which helps in nosier environments. Otherwise I prefer it off at home or walking around.


----------



## dweaver (Jul 18, 2021)

If an ear tip is on the cusp of fitting right (slightly to small or to big) it can affect the seal just enough in certain circumstances to a cause the signature to be impacted making the IEM sound tinny or lacking bass if it loses the seal. I also know my ear slightly changes size sometime affecting the seal.


----------



## gwompki

GeekGirl said:


> I've owned my N6 PRO for a few weeks now and I was happy until yesterday. That's when my hand inadvertently brushed against my right ear and the N6 PRO performed an unplanned mechanical drop test onto my asphalt driveway. The right-side unit was dead; as in no audio, no response to buttons, and most importantly, no charging indicator on the case. So, it's d-e-a-d.
> 
> The height of the drop was around 1.5 m ("ear level"). A google search shows absolutely nothing on shock and vibration standards for IEMs, or headphones for that matter. I did find a random article (5 Top True Wireless Earbuds That Don’t Break Easily) which was very clear that earbuds are expected to withstand drops from ear level. So, I did not abuse anything and expect this to be covered as a defective unit.
> 
> ...


Very good question and concern.  I would say there are probably "internal only" documents related to drop testing for the big players (Sony, Bose, etc).  For the smaller outfits it is probably an afterthought.   The demand for TWS devices is clearly growing.  Once the demand fully rolls over into the professional/front line workers realm (ie law enforcement, manufacturing, etc) we will likely see a lot more engineering and test data  become available to the end consumer.  Just my 2 cents.  

From what I know of Nuarl, they might be interested in your particular issue.  Not that I wouldn't return your set through Amazon, but might be worth contacting the manufacturer just to help improve the product.  I gave lots of feedback to Devialet on the two sets of Gemini I owned and they were thankful.

Good luck with your return/replacement process.


----------



## gwompki

I bought a set of Azla Crystal that I received yesterday. I have them both on the CA Melomania Touch and Moondrop Sparks.  So far I really like these on both sets.  The Sparks look less goofy due to deeper insertion.  The MT with crystal tips, I spend WAY less time futzing with trying to get a good seal.  Just put them in and go.  

Still liking both the MT and Sparks. I think they complement each other very well.  At this point planning to keep both which is a nice feeling after buying and trying so many sets. 

 The CA MT are a super solid contender.  Very nicely balanced signature.  Slightly boosted bass and  mids that are  just barely recessed.  All easily corrected by the app.  I think these are going to be my new go-to all rounders.  The Sparks are really nice but sound their best only with certain types of music.

I still think the Devialet Gemini sound the best of all sets I have tried overall.  However, for the price point, the issues I had with multiple sets just are not acceptable.  Hopefully on a good path for the next release though.  If they drop the price on the Gemini,  I'm all in.


----------



## Caipirina

Anyone got the Life P3 yet? I am really puzzled and of course a tad upset that I just sprang for the liberty air 2 pro a few weeks back ... and now every reviewer says these are possibly better? And the one thing that puzzles me is that new ambient / sleep sound feature, which seems to be very much app based, but only available to the Life P3? as far as my 5 minute testing just now went ... 
Nice kick in the nuts Soundcore. Locking app features for others? 

rant over


----------



## senorbroom

Caipirina said:


> Anyone got the Life P3 yet? I am really puzzled and of course a tad upset that I just sprang for the liberty air 2 pro a few weeks back ... and now every reviewer says these are possibly better? And the one thing that puzzles me is that new ambient / sleep sound feature, which seems to be very much app based, but only available to the Life P3? as far as my 5 minute testing just now went ...
> Nice kick in the nuts Soundcore. Locking app features for others?
> 
> rant over


This youtuber ranks the P3 lower than the Liberty Air 2 Pro on a bunch of metrics: 

I think it's just that it's so much cheaper that people are raving about it.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

I finally figured out how to crank the Galaxy Buds Pro in properly and, gonna be honest here, I end up using them more than my much "better" wired setup. Good on Samsung/AKG.


----------



## jant71

I believe they are Chinese so not big or anything but anyone experienced Formula Lab stuff...


----------



## Caipirina

SomeGuyDude said:


> I finally figured out how to crank the Galaxy Buds Pro in properly and, gonna be honest here, I end up using them more than my much "better" wired setup. Good on Samsung/AKG.


Similar here, finally got access to an android phone and was able to do a firmware update and now I can even use the edge double-tab for volume control, while the buds are connected to my iPhone (it also keeps the 'dynamic' EQ I selected on the android phone) ...  I was surprised to see when the Buds Pro were connected to Android that they were playing in AAC! I thought AAC was an apple only thing ... 
I still hope some day there will be an app upgrade on iOS .. i like to block touches from time to time (i.e. for running, when I might have to adjust fit)


----------



## BigZ12 (Jul 19, 2021)

...


----------



## TK33 (Jul 19, 2021)

Caipirina said:


> Similar here, finally got access to an android phone and was able to do a firmware update and now I can even use the edge double-tab for volume control, while the buds are connected to my iPhone (it also keeps the 'dynamic' EQ I selected on the android phone) ...  I was surprised to see when the Buds Pro were connected to Android that they were playing in AAC! I thought AAC was an apple only thing ...
> I still hope some day there will be an app upgrade on iOS .. i like to block touches from time to time (i.e. for running, when I might have to adjust fit)


Android phones also have AAC but the implementation and SQ is apparently not as great as IOS (don't have any recent Apple devices to confirm myself).  If you have a recent Samsung phone, it would connect using the Scalable codec, which is supposed to be capable of a much higher bitrate (I believe it can go up to 512kbps).  Otherwise, for non-Samsung devices (e.g. any other Android or IOS device) you get AAC or SBC with Samsung earbuds.  My Galaxy Buds and Galaxy Buds Live default to AAC since I no longer use any Samsung phones (currently have the LG V60 and OnePlus 8T).  

Edit: I do not have the Buds Pro but assume they work the same way.  Waiting to see what the Buds 2 and other Samsung releases look like.


----------



## Caipirina

TK33 said:


> Android phones also have AAC but the implementation and SQ is apparently not as great as IOS (don't have any recent Apple devices to confirm myself).  If you have a recent Samsung phone, it would connect using the Scalable codec, which is supposed to be capable of a much higher bitrate (I believe it can go up to 512kbps).  Otherwise, for non-Samsung devices (e.g. any other Android or IOS device) you get AAC or SBC with Samsung earbuds.  My Galaxy Buds and Galaxy Buds Live default to AAC since I no longer use any Samsung phones (currently have the LG V60 and OnePlus 8T).
> 
> Edit: I do not have the Buds Pro but assume they work the same way.  Waiting to see what the Buds 2 and other Samsung releases look like.


I was actually considering grabbing a really cheap Samsung phone here, the M02, which can be had for less than 100$ new … but I feared it might be giving jittery music. For those ‘emerging markets’ budget phones you don’t find many reviews in English  
Got a Redmi 9T, which somehow is even ‘hi res audio’ certified, but I could not find anything explaining what that actually means. 
currently listening to it with my Apollo Bold and seeing that indeed,AptX is supported. Which was not super obvious before buying. Overall quite nice as a Bluetooth music player (that can also do some decent photos, has an FHD screen bigger than my iPhone 11, oh, and it even does phone calls  )


----------



## davidcotton

Caipirina said:


> Anyone got the Life P3 yet? I am really puzzled and of course a tad upset that I just sprang for the liberty air 2 pro a few weeks back ... and now every reviewer says these are possibly better? And the one thing that puzzles me is that new ambient / sleep sound feature, which seems to be very much app based, but only available to the Life P3? as far as my 5 minute testing just now went ...
> Nice kick in the nuts Soundcore. Locking app features for others?
> 
> rant over


Reviewers nearly always say the new shiny shiny is the best one ever.  That’s how they get the clicks and subscribers.  The trick is to be happy with what you get when you get it.  I can’t talk.  Couple of weeks after getting airpod Pros I’m looking at xm 4s!


----------



## PixelSquish

MTW2 have a firmware update. Notes only say it improves call quality.


----------



## BigZ12 (Jul 19, 2021)

PixelSquish said:


> MTW2 have a firmware update. Notes only say it improves call quality.


Just updated.

Haven't tried any calls just yet, but I think they sound different.
Mids/vocals are more emphasized, more "in front of you", and not as laid back (and almost inside your head) as before. (can't explain it better  )
A little crispier high details as well? Still not the quickest and most tight bass, but I find it good enough. Goes deep enough, that's for sure.
I like it, cause the mids was the only thing I've been a little critical to.

Would love to hear your views, if you experience/hear the same change.


----------



## Caipirina

dweaver said:


> Ya the lack of IOS support does suck for IOS users. I am pretty happy with my pair. The sound signature definitely is my wheelhouse. But I also am a Samsung user so gain the benefits of being in the Samsung family.


They actually responded to my App Store review 




That's kind of a non-answer ... by now the 15 miliseconds of fame the GBPro might have had are over and by adding app support NOW they are not going to win any new buyers ... 

Well, I did the expected crazy thing and got myself a cheap-ish Andorid phone to be used as a music player mainly  
 (and back up for when teenager will loose / trash his current android phone)


----------



## regancipher

Not sure if anyone has tried them here, but I tested the Tanchjim T-APB T300 eartips this weekend. In fact, I tested a LOT of tips so I'll be writing up an article soon, but the aforementioned were particularly interesting.

Will definitely be expanding on my usual Spinfit or Stock tip roll from now on. All future reviews from now will feature a recommended tip section, and I've already added it retrospectively to the Tronsmart Apollo Air, Soundpeats H1 and 1More Comfobuds Pro reviews, all of which benefitted hugely from the tips I settled on, but even tips are subjective of course so I'll add a full explanation with dimensions and effect etc. Good exercise and well worth the few hours spent listening to music again!


----------



## Pro-Jules

https://audioproducteducationinstit...easurement-of-true-wireless-stereo-wearables/

Short notice but the above might be of interest to some of you


----------



## scubaphish

regancipher said:


> Not sure if anyone has tried them here, but I tested the Tanchjim T-APB T300 eartips this weekend. In fact, I tested a LOT of tips so I'll be writing up an article soon, but the aforementioned were particularly interesting.
> 
> Will definitely be expanding on my usual Spinfit or Stock tip roll from now on. All future reviews from now will feature a recommended tip section, and I've already added it retrospectively to the Tronsmart Apollo Air, Soundpeats H1 and 1More Comfobuds Pro reviews, all of which benefitted hugely from the tips I settled on, but even tips are subjective of course so I'll add a full explanation with dimensions and effect etc. Good exercise and well worth the few hours spent listening to music again!


Nice collection. Any chance you’ve come across new Spinfit CP100, Amazon calls them Plus?  Looks like new model:

The New CP100: Upgraded sound, lengthend umbrella and softer silicon used!


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

regancipher said:


> Not sure if anyone has tried them here, but I tested the Tanchjim T-APB T300 eartips this weekend. In fact, I tested a LOT of tips so I'll be writing up an article soon, but the aforementioned were particularly interesting.
> 
> Will definitely be expanding on my usual Spinfit or Stock tip roll from now on. All future reviews from now will feature a recommended tip section, and I've already added it retrospectively to the Tronsmart Apollo Air, Soundpeats H1 and 1More Comfobuds Pro reviews, all of which benefitted hugely from the tips I settled on, but even tips are subjective of course so I'll add a full explanation with dimensions and effect etc. Good exercise and well worth the few hours spent listening to music again!


I've heard great things about the Misodiko and Tanchjim tips. Those Feaulle look like Azla XELASTECs for the Freebuds Pro (interesting).

I've also had a lot of luck with those TrueGrip tips on taming the more treble-forward TWS sets that fit them. Surprised you found them in a plastic bag, though. Mine came in a hard plastic clamshell.


----------



## Caipirina

regancipher said:


> Not sure if anyone has tried them here, but I tested the Tanchjim T-APB T300 eartips this weekend. In fact, I tested a LOT of tips so I'll be writing up an article soon, but the aforementioned were particularly interesting.
> 
> Will definitely be expanding on my usual Spinfit or Stock tip roll from now on. All future reviews from now will feature a recommended tip section, and I've already added it retrospectively to the Tronsmart Apollo Air, Soundpeats H1 and 1More Comfobuds Pro reviews, all of which benefitted hugely from the tips I settled on, but even tips are subjective of course so I'll add a full explanation with dimensions and effect etc. Good exercise and well worth the few hours spent listening to music again!


The one in the middle is cracking me up .. looks and sounds like a fancy condom


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

Caipirina said:


> The one in the middle is cracking me up .. looks and sounds like a fancy condom


Now I _really _don't need to know what "receptor thermal activation" means.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic (Jul 20, 2021)

​In other news, have been rocking the WH3 and Sedna Crystal tips for a long bout of synthwave and prog. This was a playlist I put together for the Campfire Honeydew I'm reviewing (which do excellent with the CF01), but figure someone might be able to find enjoyment here, especially on some of the more dynamic pairs of TWS. Enjoy!

https://music.amazon.com/user-playl...d123fsune?ref=dm_sh_ZCDl92CQcdadPxHlOZYB1zoWV
​


----------



## scubaphish

scubaphish said:


> Nice collection. Any chance you’ve come across new Spinfit CP100, Amazon calls them Plus?  Looks like new model:
> 
> The New CP100: Upgraded sound, lengthend umbrella and softer silicon used!


In case anyone has similar question, I found this review:
https://audiosolace.com/2021/03/20/spinfit-ear-tips-review/
For one thing, according to them, core is larger, at 4.5-5.5 vs 3.8 

“In terms of sonic impressions, there are subtle differences compared to the original CP100 model. For example the CP100+ has a slight bass elevation and more control over the higher frequencies than its original counterpart.”


----------



## miserybeforethemusic (Jul 20, 2021)

Review of the HiBy WH3 just went up! Figured 3 months was enough time to get something together. Long story short, they're a good set of TWS, but quickly getting out-classed as competitors' flagship products start going down in price 

https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/hiby-wh3.25052/reviews#review-26320


----------



## Podster

Considering where we generally wear our iem's I'm more than satisfied with the experience I get with most of my iem's and that's with either my MMCX or 2 Pin adapter on them  Portable/mobile listening has so many challenges to overcome and I think the thought of having perfect playback on the go is really just a pipe dream






In my 65 years there has never been nor will be the perfect sound reproduction from live settings, wired SACD to dedicated headphone amp wired to headphones. Too many variables in any chosen playback setup. WRLS front ends to WRLS Headphones/buds or iem's are the future just ask any teenage iPhone/Airbuds user This hobby is so subjective and personal one just needs to be happy we have come this far and can still enjoy our music


----------



## jant71 (Jul 20, 2021)

Got the Nuarl N6 Pro2 in. I do indeed like the color scheme of the Bordeaux. Really thought the earfin things would be a bit more firm and supportive than they are. I like the Block Ear+ tips in and of them selves as tips but not sure about them with the Pro2. Case is nice just a bit chunky in it's height. I swapped out the Block Ear+ for Spiral Dot SF...



Sound seems just right. Balanced. Have not gone out with them yet but they have the right amount of bass and if the previous model  had less than it wasn't enough for the outside world. Still seems less than the E16. Early comparison certainly shows the Sabbat plays with the big boys. Seems like a bit better up through the magnetostat part which may give more detail and resolution up high. Again, soon out of the box so the Nuarl deserves some run in. Ambient is pretty clean and natural but it is like I wanted to turn the mics louder. Seems to amount of ambient adjustment just on and off. Ambient is really only a small bit better than just pausing and hearing passively. Guess it has no noise that way and may tame wind noise but it doesn't "hearthrough" as much as the JVC, Victor, or AT do.

Need more time with them for sure but so far so good.


----------



## Podster

jant71 said:


> Got the Nuarl N6 Pro2 in. I do indeed like the color scheme of the Bordeaux. Really thought the earfin things would be a bit more firm and supportive than they are. I like the Block Ear+ tips in and of them selves as tips but not sure about them with the Pro2. Case is nice just a bit chunky in it's height.
> 
> Sound seems just right. Balanced. Have not gone out with them yet but they have the right amount of bass and if the previous model  had less than it wasn't enough for the outside world. Still seems less than the E16. Early comparison certainly shows the Sabbat plays with the big boys. Seems like a bit better up through the magnetostat part which may give more detail and resolution up high. Again, soon out of the box so the Nuarl deserves some run in. Ambient is pretty clean and natural but it is like I wanted to turn the mics louder. Seems to amount of ambient adjustment just on and off. Ambient is really only a small bit better than just pausing and hearing passively. Guess it has no noise that way and may tame wind noise but it doesn't "hearthrough" as much as the JVC, Victor, or AT do.
> 
> Need more time with them for sure but so far so good.


So does the earfin not flex and form around the inner ear cavity? I thought they were soft enough to form fit to that cavity but sturdy enough to hold the earpiece in place!


----------



## jant71 (Jul 20, 2021)

Podster said:


> So does the earfin not flex and form around the inner ear cavity? I thought they were soft enough to form fit to that cavity but sturdy enough to hold the earpiece in place!


The flexing part is fine. The sturdy to hold them in is more like the ambient volume level where I would want more. Gets the job done but not as stable as my Sport90BT or the JVC AE5T. Like the other user that brushed their N6 Pro and the right side fell out and broke I can see how that happened now. Need to be careful with hoods and hats later in the year. They stay in but are not safely locked in if you get my description. 

I could fix them right up....



...but of course they won't fit in the case any more.


----------



## AmericanSpirit (Jul 20, 2021)

AmericanSpirit said:


> Anyone tried soundpeats gamer no.1?
> 
> I have a favorite Japan-based IEM reviewer, he usuallyi reviews those big names but this time the reviewer commented “one of best positioning and uniformed diffusion field”.
> 
> ...


Following up on this, Just got it today.

!? The diffusion field management is excellent! Not super wide, but the positioning is amazing, the imaging is very holographic. I hardly can expect this much of sound stage handling from a barely $30 TWS....

Resolution is just the average, but this toy is certainly worth a play, it certainly reminds me of UM MEST MKII in terms of diffusion field. Need a further investigation...

I'm shocked because I spent a fortune for IEMs and noticed something as little as this little $30 TWS could handle the sound stage this much...

This IEM contains 2 drivers (not sure it's a hybrid, but I feel it's dual DD), and this dual DD handles HRTF very well which I can say.

-Sounds like earbud style open field diffusion
-diffusing but accurate imaging
-Resolution: C (Slightly lowert than AirPods Pro, bass texture is not that great)
-Imaging: S+ (why so holographic!?)
-Positioning: S+ (why so accurate?!)

-I can see this can be used for gaming, but for music as well, the position reproduction capability is very excellent. 
-Pretty sure this will stay on top of my list as best coordinate positioning IEM ( not limited to TWS)


----------



## SynaestheticA (Jul 20, 2021)

Apologies for the long review - I might have gotten carried away.

*N6 Pro 2’s* arrived Monday and I've been banging them for a few days.

*Box -* Standard box, earbuds are out of the case and using this nice little clip system to stay in place over the foam. Inside the box smells like a new sneaker box. I liked that.
The first thing I noticed is that pretty much every photo including photos I’ve taken make these look way bigger than they are. Although just like a lot of the Bose Soundsport products you won't be lying on your side with these in.

No Spin fit included. Just standard Block ears +. Not a real problem + I bought the spin fit 360’s for the N6 Mini so I have some ready to go.

Love the colour of the case + the buds, got the *Bordeaux *and am happy I did. Case snaps shut nicely with some magnetic function. I think the aesthetic design is fantastic, a big fan of the style.

Comfort/Fit These are *quite comfortable*. wingtips cause me discomfort after casual listening for more than an hour on all buds I’ve tried, Generally, wing-tipped TWS are for running where 1-2 hours is the max I will do and have more things on my mind than my ears. But these are the softest I’ve felt so far, I think they would stay in my ears without the wings altogether but you can also get away without putting them in your ear grooves. I forgot they were in on an 8km I went for yesterday. They don't move around and are secure. But I do see how they could be knocked out by hoodies or hats as some users mention above.

Wingtips are very pliable so it is ok that they need to be pushed into my little ear cave. *But smaller extra wings would have been a nice option..*

Connection is seamless and simple. Distance is good, connecting across devices is easy. Disconnect from one and then connect on the other.

Now on to *SONIC PERFORMANCE.*
This is the reason we got these little burgundy devils. My reference TWS is the N6 Mini, not exactly fair since they use the same drivers as the N6 which is bassier than the N6 pro, and they also don’t come with the HDSS. But enough of that, Let’s just say it how it is.

*AMAZING*. Yea they sound *fantastic*. I’m easy to please. I think I like bass but I don’t think I am a basshead. Goa trance (Like Psytrance + Techno) is my main genre. It isn’t EDM that needs rumbling sub-bass and relies on the low ends at all times. But at 145 BPM’s you want it to be quick, punchy and Deep. It also presents a plethora of layers that stack around each other and do all sorts of twists and turns. Well, These deliver on that no problem. They outperform the N6 Mini, The Fiil T1X/T1XS.

I’ve heard people say that they don’t sound great on poorly mastered tracks. Whose listening to poorly mastered tracks? … That being said I actually think the opposite is true for poorly mastered tracks. Dreamchilds - Manta Ray and Chi A.D’s Earthcrossing album are both notoriously poorly mastered but expertly written, they actually sound better on these with more emotional depth than I'm used to.

*No bad tracks here*, on A Phauns newest ambient release “Regeneration” I can hear all of the little electric flicks, the drips deep in the background, it only has a few moments of bass but I can say that they are deep and fulfilling. Overall I feel like ‘*elevating*’ is the right word for how music sounds on these.

My *usual reference track for headphones* is anything by Nibana, this time I chose Moonset. The melody is moving and delicate, the detail is impeccable and there is a sense of being surrounded by the sweet sweet layers.

For me the mids are the most important part. I need detailed, textured forward mids that don’t get lost around a multitude of other layers.  In progressive psytrance who is a better *bass monster* than the ‘Fabio & Moon’ boys. Pure club trance and the Pro 2’s deliver just fine. Powerful, loud, punchy and energetic kickdrums with a solid bassline.

I’ve also listened to a few songs with mechanical, industrial, cyber sounds and FX. I had to look around to see if someone was operating some equipment near me. The sound stage really is magnificent and quite wide. These are the first IEMS that I have used where the sound didn’t feel like it was coming from the eartips themselves. I got that a little bit with the N6 Mini but it’s on another level here.

For the *rock enthusiasts *my reference band was ‘We Lost The Sea - Challenger Part 1’. When the rock finally starts I can hear differences that I never paid much attention to earlier. The clicking together of drum sticks, the clashing of cymbals from forward to back and the riffing of guitar strings all make themselves more known.

*Final rock test track* is We Lost The Sea - The Last Sun. The final 4 minutes of this 14-minute song usually leave me worried that my speakers or ears are going to explode at any point. On a lot of earphones, the sound muddies and distorts as the track climbs and climbs which probably has a lot to do with the recording too. So how does the Pro 2 stack up? The best of ANY in earbuds I’ve heard so far. During the final few seconds of the apex, I can still distinguish the cymbals from the kick drum from the guitar from the electronic elements. I have no fear for my ears and it didn’t sound like the pro 2’s were going to explode either. . . Which is nice.

Now for a *psychotic Goa trance* track, I went with Moksha from Psylent Buddhi and it was a true riot. True the recording was already top notch, even my Pamu buds sound good here but on the Pro 2 it was another entire auditory experience.

I’m not big on *EDM* but I listened to The Business by Tiesto for you EDMammals. The vocals are airy and balanced with the other layers. Kickdrum is full and tbh I can appreciate the track a lot more than I usually would.

To get some proper *sub bass* rumbles I turned to RL Grime - Scylla. The sub bass is where it should be, it isn’t the vibrating underground club experience but it’s exactly where I would want it to be for a TWS. Sitting under the bass while leads toot overhead with force and power.

… I have to retract the above about* sub bass*. I just listened to some Kendrick and Kanye West and noticed that the sub-bass is way bigger than I thought it was. But I've already written the above so I'll leave it there for the Electro heads. Blood On The Leaves brings plenty of rumbling vibrations along with it and Kendricks - Hood Politics is deep and brings all sorts of satisfying vibratory enjoyment. All the other track production is spot on and a delight to the senses.


*That brings me to buttons.* At first I was excited for buttons instead of the almost always unused touch controls. But now I see why manufacturers might be more prone to use a touch function instead. I only use the functions either when at the desk or while running. I have to admit that while running the touch controls are much easier to use. While at the desk the buttons are preferable and this is all just nitpicking based on preference. What isn't nitpicking is the button beep on volume up and down functions. Seems very *unnecessary*, who in their right mind wants a beep while messing with volume?

Luckily touch and button functions on TWS are usually not good enough to warrant me using them. Just push the phone button, it ain’t so hard. What's the problem? You’re telling me that we can carry our phones around like an extension of our own bodies that we keep close to us for dear life but we can’t use the volume control when we have earbuds in? Who are we kidding? People here have like 8 + TWS units on them at all times, are we really remembering all of the different button combinations? And quite frankly it wouldn’t hurt for companies to stop enabling us and normalising the use of these functions. Get rid of em, increase your IPX and give people on the internet one less thing to complain about.

*Ambient mode, ANC and other things -* I find that Natural isolation is good enough on most headphones and TWS that I don’t know what the added benefit of ANC is other than to have a bunch of frequencies shot into your ears that I feel like I can always ‘Feel’. But that’s an opinion, it’s conjecture and irrelevant as there is no ANC. I will say the sound is wide and ‘full’ enough that even at low volumes I can’t hear my very loud wife when she yells directly at me for my attention.

Ambient mode is more useful I will admit and quite good on these. My own voice comes through really well and doesn't do that deep bass annoying thing, and other sounds as well as keyboard clicking come through nicely. All in all, I’d call them office appropriate.

Another point I've noticed from the N6 Mini and is the same here, but you can turn these up quite loud without it feeling ‘painful’ on the ears. My Fiil T1X/XS can only go so high before they start to produce diminishing returns. It’s not that they ‘hurt’ but just that the loudness isn’t enjoyable for whatever reason. I don’t get that on these so far, there is a sweet range from the medium volume to high volume point that produces satisfactory results.

*Equalizer -* is a bit of a laugh. 2 settings, ‘default’ & ‘flat’. I think default might be my preference. ‘Flat’ brings the sound ‘down’ while default seems to lift it if that makes sense? Maybe saying that ‘default’ spacializes the sound is more accurate, even though that isn’t a real word but you all get it. ‘Flat’ brings the sound closer to you and makes it sound more ‘full’. If you prefer big bass then Flat seems like the better option. Default is better for overall detail and treble.

The rest of the app is fine. You can change the button combos to 4 different presets (Great) for the front and back buttons which is a nice touch. The middle button stays set how it is.

*Conclusion -* I’m not the type of guy who would say that these are like hearing all your favourite songs for the first time again. But it is like hearing them from all angles with a fun and energetic sound that picks up as many details as my DT770’s or my MSR7B’s. And you get to have a badass looking pair of TWS in your ear while you do it.

*Cons (Kinda)* - Only one ear wing size, Beeping buttons.

*Pro’s -* The N6 Pro 2 picks up all of the track details and has one of the best sound stages I have ever heard on a pair of ear buds. Currently these are my favourite in ear buds. The design is lit and the sound is unreal. Everything is textured and positioned extraordinarily well.

@tma6   mentioned on their N6 Pro review that _“the dynamics are also surprisingly good. You can actually hear crescendos when they occur in music, adding nice emotion to what could be perceived as a flat-ish sound signature.”_

On the *Pro 2 I see exactly what was meant*. Most of the music I listen to tries to dig up some euphoric kind of emotion. On these buds, *That emotion is exacerbated *and brought even more to life. I can’t put my finger on exactly what they are doing to elicit this but I have to say, with everything taken into consideration, I *highly recommend* giving these a go. I love these things, I’m gonna treat them right and make an honest TWS out of them.

If you like the design and want to experience *auditory delight* then I recommend it. If you’re in Australia you can get them from the bad boys over at Earspan.com


----------



## jant71 (Jul 20, 2021)

SynaestheticA said:


> Apologies for the long review - I might have gotten carried away.
> 
> *N6 Pro 2’s* arrived Monday and I've been banging them for a few days.
> 
> ...


Agree. One can tell the volume change by ear and it should really only beep at the top and bottom notches so you know that is it. I like the button set up but to be honest they could have the smaller buttons stick up more than they do so you can tell them apart more. Should get easier with practice but you do need some practice.

Not so many impressions on the Pro2 so maybe they say they the Pro was not great with poorly recorded tracks but these seem like they are warmer and smoother so they should be just fine. I am actually hoping the run in will take a little bloom off the notes and sharpen them a little. Seems a smidge smooth and a little clean up would be great. Early for me and I may get that with tips I don't know. A little tighter and the dynamics come out a little more and a smidge more clarity and they will be just right.

Agree the ambient is solid. I tested it out at the store just a little bit ago and it worked well. They have solid mics. Ambient is all it does though. Some auto pause and some turn the volume down when ambient is turned on but the Nuarl doesn't do anything but ambient on and off.


----------



## samandhi

miserybeforethemusic said:


> ​In other news, have been rocking the WH3 and Sedna Crystal tips for a long bout of synthwave and prog. This was a playlist I put together for the Campfire Honeydew I'm reviewing (which do excellent with the CF01), but figure someone might be able to find enjoyment here, especially on some of the more dynamic pairs of TWS. Enjoy!
> 
> https://music.amazon.com/user-playl...d123fsune?ref=dm_sh_ZCDl92CQcdadPxHlOZYB1zoWV
> ​



That is a fantastic playlist BTW! I have listened to all but a song or two on that. It sounds amazing on my Deva, IT07, and my Moondrop Chaconne. Anyone wanting to test all aspects of their headphone/IEM/TWS must listen to this (IMO).


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

SynaestheticA said:


> Apologies for the long review - I might have gotten carried away.
> 
> *N6 Pro 2’s* arrived Monday and I've been banging them for a few days.
> 
> ...


----------



## senorbroom (Jul 21, 2021)

Heaps of news for today:

International version of Redmi Buds 3 Pro available now with a discount: https://www.gsmarena.com/redmi_buds..._version_of_the_air_dots_3_pro-news-50140.php
New Oppo Enco Free 2 ANC: https://www.oppo.com/en/accessories/enco-free2/
New Nothing Ear (1) teaser: https://www.gsmarena.com/nothing_ear1_to_have_24hour_battery_life_with_anc_on-news-50137.php
OnePlus Buds Pro use 3-mic ANC: https://www.gsmarena.com/oneplus_buds_pro_tws_earphones_launch_date_features-news-50078.php
Amazfit releasing buds with PPG heart-rate sensor: https://www.gsmarena.com/amazfit_po...d_health_tracking_to_your_ears-news-50048.php
Oppo Enco X now available in blue: https://www.gsmarena.com/oppo_reno6...or_model_india_price_sale_date-news-50040.php


----------



## tma6

SynaestheticA said:


> Apologies for the long review - I might have gotten carried away.
> 
> *N6 Pro 2’s* arrived Monday and I've been banging them for a few days.
> 
> ...


Really nice write up and thanks for the shout out


----------



## Canabuc

senorbroom said:


> New Oppo's: https://www.oppo.com/en/accessories/enco-free2/


Seems a lot like my Huawei freebuds pro even down to the case.


----------



## nekonhime

samandhi said:


> That is a fantastic playlist BTW! I have listened to all but a song or two on that. It sounds amazing on my Deva, IT07, and my Moondrop Chaconne. Anyone wanting to test all aspects of their headphone/IEM/TWS must listen to this (IMO).


How this compare to the N10 pro soundwise and comfort?


----------



## Firevortex

SynaestheticA said:


> Apologies for the long review - I might have gotten carried away.
> 
> *N6 Pro 2’s* arrived Monday and I've been banging them for a few days.
> 
> ...


Nice write up! very detailed. you should cut and paste it in the Head Gear section. the N6 Pro2 do have more bass than the N10 Pro, i agree its more energetic and fast.

I personally really like the Nuarl line. i think it deserves more recognition and people hearing them. would be interesting to see how they compare to the Devialet Gemini or the PI7. i just cant justify the cost of those units to do a compare as i rarely use TWE those days.


----------



## bronco1015

tiagopinto said:


> I didn’t end up owning them. I tried a burned-in pair, liked the sound. From memory they had a good soundstage and imaging. I believe they were around 250€ when I tested them. I read the case had battery draining issues and I wasn’t up for it.
> 
> I went the MT route and I’m happy with them at half the price of the others.
> 
> I know it’s hard to try them at stores (impossible in Portugal) and I don’t like the purchase and return process so I risked it. At first I wasn’t so happy with the connectivity issues they had... but that’s gone. Even the sound improved with firmware and any EQ corrections were no longer even needed.


Not aware of MTW2 battery drain, mine have sat for a couple months at one point and still got normal use out of them. I purposely tested that after the issues i've had with MTW1 battery drain, which is only an issue if they sit idle fortunately. Either way, had the MTW2  for 15 months now, hopefully they don't randomly start draining.


----------



## bronco1015

clerkpalmer said:


> whelp going back to pI7. Sony’s to be returned. Nothing wrong with the Sony - they are excellent but the difference in sq is noticeable enough for me. Looks like white is all that is available. Will I hate that color combo?
> Also has anyone revisited the mw08? I gave up on them pretty quickly. Just wondering if I should give them another look.


I got to keep my Review unit of the MW08, and FWIW, I didn't give them a great review. i spent quite a bit more time looking for a sound I might like from them. i was able to bring some sparkle to them, get rid of the excessive midbass, and bring out some quality depth and texture to the bass. Then i brought the mids in general up by a huge amount and I now have a nice all around sound with them. Fun sound when it's called for, smooth and detailed, and a bright but not to harsh sound. Are they perfect? No. but with this sound, they'll actually get used and I enjoy them.


----------



## SynaestheticA (Jul 21, 2021)

tma6 said:


> Really nice write up and thanks for the shout out


Hey thanks! I went through every page right from your big one on the N6 Pro just trawling for more info. Finally went to buy them and then saw the Pro 2 was coming out in a few days...Great timing. 6 + hours of reading for sure. Thought I should contribute too.




Firevortex said:


> I personally really like the Nuarl line. i think it deserves more recognition and people hearing them. would be interesting to see how they compare to the Devialet Gemini or the PI7. i just cant justify the cost of those units to do a compare as i rarely use TWE those days.


Nice suggestion, I thought this thread was the go to place for info, this forum is huge. I agree about the Nuarl line, would love to see them keep making moves in the scene.


----------



## bronco1015

i've been thinking of picking up the next version of the n10 Pro, but also intrigued by the N6pro 2.
https://nuarl.com/en/n6pro2/


----------



## tiagopinto

Pro-Jules said:


> https://audioproducteducationinstit...easurement-of-true-wireless-stereo-wearables/
> 
> Short notice but the above might be of interest to some of you



Do you know if it’s possible to view after the date? Thanks.


----------



## tiagopinto (Jul 21, 2021)

miserybeforethemusic said:


> ​In other news, have been rocking the WH3 and Sedna Crystal tips for a long bout of synthwave and prog. This was a playlist I put together for the Campfire Honeydew I'm reviewing (which do excellent with the CF01), but figure someone might be able to find enjoyment here, especially on some of the more dynamic pairs of TWS. Enjoy!
> 
> https://music.amazon.com/user-playl...d123fsune?ref=dm_sh_ZCDl92CQcdadPxHlOZYB1zoWV
> ​




Specific playlists for specific buds. You do not cease to amaze me! Will test this on the MT, Aonic 50 and Rai Solo. Cheers!


----------



## tiagopinto

bronco1015 said:


> Not aware of MTW2 battery drain, mine have sat for a couple months at one point and still got normal use out of them. I purposely tested that after the issues i've had with MTW1 battery drain, which is only an issue if they sit idle fortunately. Either way, had the MTW2  for 15 months now, hopefully they don't randomly start draining.



This was a wrong statement and I’ve already been corrected. I believe the battery drain issue was with MTW1. I didn’t actually own the MTW2 but I did get a chance to test them. I liked them very much but didn’t want to spend 300€ in TWS. I got the MT at 130€ instead.


----------



## Juturna (Jul 21, 2021)

Do you guys prefer having just one set of earbuds that you just use as your daily driver, or do you prefer having plenty of different sets of earbuds for different use cases?

Right now i'm still deciding between just getting one more expensive earbud like the WF-1000XM4 or Devialet Gemini's, or trying to find some nice open box deals and good value for the money-type earbuds, like I found the Bowers & Wilkins PI5 for $120, Bose QC Buds for $100, and then possibly might spring for Soundcore Life P3, Edifier Neobuds Pro, Moondrop Sparks, Status Between Pro, Soundpeats H1, or Earfun Free Pro or something like that.

I feel like i'm posting a bunch of dumb questions all the time here but I'm terrible at making decisions so I try to hear other people's reasoning when it comes to stuff like this.

Also, for people with the PI5, are they worth $120? I feel like i've seen people say that they're not worth it at the regular asking price and that they've been terrible with connection issues and I don't think I can live with dropouts and lag when I have two pretty cheap sets of earbuds that both are Bluetooth 5.2 and have been extremely solid when it comes to connection (like actually both earbuds are the first ones that are actually connected to the phone even before I've managed to put them in my ears after taking them out of the case, the "connected" voice prompt have usually already played when they're in my ears).
But at $120 it sounds like quite a steal, but when it comes to earbuds with constant audio cutouts and connection dropouts I wouldn't want to pay even $30.


----------



## bronco1015

tiagopinto said:


> This was a wrong statement and I’ve already been corrected. I believe the battery drain issue was with MTW1. I didn’t actually own the MTW2 but I did get a chance to test them. I liked them very much but didn’t want to spend 300€ in TWS. I got the MT at 130€ instead.


Forgot to mention I saw your acknowledgement that they were to expensive at the time anyway. Only mentioned it if they came down in price and you otherwise liked them. Wasn't meant to correct, just to clarify. And yeah, the MTW1 is the one with battery drain.


----------



## bronco1015 (Jul 21, 2021)

Juturna said:


> Do you guys prefer having just one set of earbuds that you just use as your daily driver, or do you prefer having plenty of different sets of earbuds for different use cases?
> 
> Right now i'm still deciding between just getting one more expensive earbud like the WF-1000XM4 or Devialet Gemini's, or trying to find some nice open box deals and good value for the money-type earbuds, like I found the Bowers & Wilkins PI5 for $120, Bose QC Buds for $100, and then possibly might spring for Soundcore Life P3, Edifier Neobuds Pro, Moondrop Sparks, Status Between Pro, Soundpeats H1, or Earfun Free Pro or something like that.
> 
> ...


Haven't listened to either of the B&W's, but from memory it seems like I've heard of connection issues with the PI7, not the PI5.
i've been catching up in the thread, and saw you have some SoundPeats IIRC, that you like and got as a backup? For $100-120 for the QC or PI5, I'd purchase one and use them along with the cheap pair, till something newer comes out.
Personally I have a lot of TWEs, some I use aren't on my sig yet. But I usually swap between my MTW1 and 2, Anbes 359, an old cheap off brand from a couple years ago, my AZ70, the next 3 are new in the rotation; the  XM4, the MW08, Devialet Gemini and occasionally the N6P and pixelBuds. my MTW1 and Anbes 359 are losing more battery life, so don't know how much longer they'll be in the rotation, but fortunately they keep hanging on. I've had them forever and they're 2 of my favorites.
Edit: I do have some for different use cases.
pixelbuds are usually for calls and sometimes while laying down, AZ70 are great for transit and when i want to be wire free at home etc.


----------



## tiagopinto

Juturna said:


> Do you guys prefer having just one set of earbuds that you just use as your daily driver, or do you prefer having plenty of different sets of earbuds for different use cases?
> 
> Right now i'm still deciding between just getting one more expensive earbud like the WF-1000XM4 or Devialet Gemini's, or trying to find some nice open box deals and good value for the money-type earbuds, like I found the Bowers & Wilkins PI5 for $120, Bose QC Buds for $100, and then possibly might spring for Soundcore Life P3, Edifier Neobuds Pro, Moondrop Sparks, Status Between Pro, Soundpeats H1, or Earfun Free Pro or something like that.
> 
> ...



Several people here, including me, have chimed in to your conundrum. I can relate closely because I’m in the same kind of boat: tight budget and the incessant search for the best possible choice. Oh, and hard to decide too.

I have mentioned I must cater for Bodyboarding (I’m set here but I’m saving for a surf trip), Mountain Biking (I very much need a full suspension bike or even an e-MTB, still deciding... see) and Scuba Diving (pretty much set here, although I do need a wetsuit... and money to go on weekends). These are three hobbies, besides music, which are very important to me. 

When I started looking for on the go buds, wanting the best, I looked into the heavy hitters at the time. My utmost priority was and is sound quality, but I also enjoy other features. I do like a more neutral and faithful signature. After getting the Shure Aonic 50’s (A50) as versatile full size cans, I tested a bunch of TWS, compared specs and, along the way, realized that in a fast moving market as TWS is, I didn’t want to spend 300€ in something that would maybe not last much more than two years, although I do hope they do. I’m usually very careful with my stuff, so they probably will. My Jaybird Bluebuds X (BX) from 2014 are still going, although I don’t reach for them that often lately. This is mainly because the Melomania Touch, which I got for 130€, are so much better sound wise. They definitely had issues at first but all were corrected with firmware. The MT say “power on” when I take them out of the case. I used to have time to put them in my ears before this announcement. Now they’re so quick I only have time to hear “connected”, if I’m quick enough.

I didn’t want 50€ chi-fi and didn’t reach for 300€ fidelity. I didn’t get ANC or Qi and traded that for price and sound. 

I reached the conclusion I wanted one that could do most and not a few that could do a few things at a time. Five units at 100€ each is 500€. There goes my new scuba wetsuit. I have my BX and don’t use them, I have my wife’s Liberty Air 2 and don’t use them.

Since then I recently got my first serious IEM’s. The Meze Rai Solo (RS), for more critical listening (I LOVE them) when not on the go. I also got the THX Onyx to use with these and the A50. Again, I went for a 200€ IEM, not breaking the bank for other goals. 

So now I have a trio of options (and a great amp). The A50, the RS and the MT as TWS. Would I want more, heck ya! But this is my “reasonable” and “balanced” take, for now. Others may differ as many here seem to buy a new pair each week to try out. I have nothing against other views, but this has been my recent approach so far.

Hope this helps.


----------



## scubaphish (Jul 21, 2021)

Juturna said:


> Do you guys prefer having just one set of earbuds that you just use as your daily driver, or do you prefer having plenty of different sets of earbuds for different use cases?
> 
> Right now i'm still deciding between just getting one more expensive earbud like the WF-1000XM4 or Devialet Gemini's, or trying to find some nice open box deals and good value for the money-type earbuds, like I found the Bowers & Wilkins PI5 for $120, Bose QC Buds for $100, and then possibly might spring for Soundcore Life P3, Edifier Neobuds Pro, Moondrop Sparks, Status Between Pro, Soundpeats H1, or Earfun Free Pro or something like that.
> 
> ...


Have not listened to nearly as many sets of TWS buds as others on this board, but personally I think the PI5 are a good deal at $120.  They have a nice, warm sound; if not a little bass-heavy at times.  I probably would have kept my open box find if not having found a pair of PI7 open box

I should add I tried the MTW2 at same time. Looking for something better than APP. I found them really nice but a little sterile.


----------



## srinivasvignesh

Where do you get these open box deals?


----------



## Juturna

scubaphish said:


> Have not listened to nearly as many sets of TWS buds as others on this board, but personally I think the PI5 are a good deal at $120.  They have a nice, warm sound; if not a little bass-heavy at times.  I probably would have kept my open box find if not having found a pair of PI7 open box


I just tried the Sony XM4s for the first time and compared them to the PI5’s, and it made me completely unable to think about buying the PI5. 

I was surprised by how clear the Sony’s sounded even though I clearly didn’t get a good fit. Only tried with the medium tips instead of the Large that I probably need. They had very slim bass and the ANC was poor but I know that isn’t at all what they should sound like so I get that I just didn’t get a good seal. But just knowing that they’re capable of producing that sound with the wrong tips still kinda sold me on them, so depending on the bill im getting from the dentist on Monday I might be buying them right away after.

The PI5’s sounded quite muddy and low resolution in comparison and honestly liked them less than my $69 Earfun Free Pro OE I’m pretty much every way. Absolutely not terrible and with a real EQ they probably sound good but through AAC on my iPhone they weren’t for me.


----------



## scubaphish (Jul 21, 2021)

srinivasvignesh said:


> Where do you get these open box deals?


Found mine on eBay.  Worldwide Stereo puts them out sometimes. PI5 were 189 and PI7 299

they are an authorized B&W seller

senheiser was seller their own open box for the MTW2 on eBay. They were also 189


----------



## jant71 (Jul 21, 2021)

Checked out the Nuarl a little bit vs. my other top 2...




Things to like about all of them of course.

*Case*: Nuarl case has a nice color, strongest magnets, and I like the orange LED set-up. AT is the smallest, the only one whose lid will hold open, and is very comfy in the hand. Sabbat has the sturdiest plastic, has Qi wireless, and is the thinnest when closed.

*Connection*: Nuarl wins slightly over the AT and then the Sabbat E16. So I would say same level for the Japanese pair but a level lower for the Chi-Fi model.

*Fit*: Easiest: AT>Sabbat>Nuarl  - AT is smallest and shallow fit and Sabbat has the best shape. Most Stable: Nuarl=AT>E16

*Comfort*: AT=E16>Nuarl

* Isolation*: Nuarl>Sabbat>>AT  - The Nuarl depth gets the win here thenE16 ear filling shape and the shallow AT last.

*NC*: Follows the Isolation actually. Nuarl and AT are on par all things considered. So that means AT with it's weak ANC on is only as good as the Nuarl passive.

*Ambient*: E16 is NA and AT=Nuarl  - Perhaps the nod to AT since  you have both tap to talk on the right and hear through when you tap on the left so you can get auto pause and activate.

*Auto Pause*: Only the AT has sensors for it.

*Volume*: E16>Nuarl>AT - Slight edge to the E16 and then the Nuarl. At is the only one that approaches a headroom limit depending on device.

*Sound*: Nuarl>E16=AT  -  AT is modded to have the foamremoved from it's sound tube so it is not stock. AT might be the quickest and the most fun. It is the warmest. E16 still has the Magnetostat problem that the dynamic driver part is always good but not great or it could win this. Nuarl and modded AT have the tighter and sharper bass notes. All on aptX an EQ'd to my liking they are all close so on the same tier. AT needs the mod so it would drop a step if it was stock cause the detail and sharpness of note would no longer compete.

Bass reach: Nuarl>E16>AT
Stage size: E16>Nuarl>AT  - Sabbat and Nuarl nearly equal but for a slight bit of height
Treble reach: E16>Nuarl>AT  - Again nearly equal and the AT not quite there.
Coherence: Nuarl=AT>E16  - The dynamic in the E16 shows a bit of difference from the other one.
Separation: Nuarl>E16>AT  - E16 a bit more thick or filled in and not as airy as the Nuarl.
Detail and resolution: Nuarl>E16>AT  - Close as they are all pretty damn good. E16 Dynamic smooths over bass detail the Nuarl shows and the                                                                  AT a little less over all.

Overall the Nuarl would be the most accurate and true sounding. Technical ability at the top or equal in most of the categories.


----------



## wazzupi

I'm looking for a QC20 alternative ? as in a wired ANC earbud. I'd much appreciate anyone's suggestions. Thank you


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

tiagopinto said:


> Specific playlists for specific buds. You do not cease to amaze me! Will test this on the MT, Aonic 50 and Rai Solo. Cheers!


Oooooh nice. Looking forward to your feedback.

I think the IEM-specific playlists will continue to be an integral part of my reviews. For starters, my previous ones are getting somewhat stale. Then I realized they're just _long _and not helpful to figuring out what sounds best for whatever particular pair I'm reviewing. Make it a showcase of sorts, right?


Juturna said:


> Do you guys prefer having just one set of earbuds that you just use as your daily driver, or do you prefer having plenty of different sets of earbuds for different use cases?


I prefer having variety, personally, but that's because my musical moods shift almost daily.

Sometimes I just want a non-fatiguing all-day sound signature, in which case the 85t/FITS/AZ70W will gladly serve it up.

Other times, I need more isolation, in which case the ADV, Melomania Touch, and Noble Falcon Pro are more up to the task. AZ70W adds in ANC, but passive isolation on the ones I mentioned are great.

If I want to get thwacked with bass, I'll tune the WH3 for a DD focus or grab the CX400BT.

And so on and so forth...it does help to have options, though I wouldn't encourage anybody to go as crazy as I did. While it did help me better understand the market, it was quite an expensive lesson learned. Could probably have gotten a top-tier IEM for what I've put into midrange and "high end" TWS.


Juturna said:


> Right now i'm still deciding between just getting one more expensive earbud like the WF-1000XM4 or Devialet Gemini's, or trying to find some nice open box deals and good value for the money-type earbuds, like I found the Bowers & Wilkins PI5 for $120, Bose QC Buds for $100, and then possibly might spring for Soundcore Life P3, Edifier Neobuds Pro, Moondrop Sparks, Status Between Pro, Soundpeats H1, or Earfun Free Pro or something like that.


Think of it in terms of use case. What need are you looking to fill that the stuff you have currently doesn't? If you just want to try as much as possible, I'd suggest going the open box route and stick with stuff that resells easily. Since I haven't laid ears on the Gemini or XM4, I can't tell you if they're worth the asking price. The Falcon Pro, dare I say it, is not at this point. Too much competition that does just as well (if not better) for less nowadays.


Juturna said:


> I feel like i'm posting a bunch of dumb questions all the time here but I'm terrible at making decisions so I try to hear other people's reasoning when it comes to stuff like this.


That's how it is until things click. Part of the learning process. Ask away.


wazzupi said:


> I'm looking for a QC20 alternative ? as in a wired ANC earbud. I'd much appreciate anyone's suggestions. Thank you


How about this instead of ANC? Class-leading passive isolation. It can be found cheaper elsewhere and I'd suggest doing some Adorama magic to find a more ideal price. You should be able to get each piece down to about $100 each:

https://audio46.com/products/etymot...hones-with-etymotion-wireless-bluetooth-cable

Alternatively, feel free to give these a look:

https://www.worldwidestereo.com/pro...s-with-adaptive-noise-cancellation?color=Gold
https://www.crutchfield.com/p_022EPE70W/Yamaha-EP-E70A-White.html?tp=60838
https://www.crutchfield.com/p_714R12NBBL/Klipsch-X12-Neckband-Black.html?cc=02&tp=60838


----------



## Pro-Jules

tiagopinto said:


> Do you know if it’s possible to view after the date? Thanks.


not sure. try the link and see what it says now..?


----------



## wazzupi (Jul 21, 2021)

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Oooooh nice. Looking forward to your feedback.
> 
> I think the IEM-specific playlists will continue to be an integral part of my reviews. For starters, my previous ones are getting somewhat stale. Then I realized they're just _long _and not helpful to figuring out what sounds best for whatever particular pair I'm reviewing. Make it a showcase of sorts, right?
> 
> ...


I appreciate your suggestions, but I'm looking for a wired solution not wireless. I fear i might run into latency problems when using it on my pc.


----------



## cresny

wazzupi said:


> I'm looking for a QC20 alternative ? as in a wired ANC earbud. I'd much appreciate anyone's suggestions. Thank you


I think the QC20 may have been the last of its kind. Qualcomm and other chipsets are all going to be about wireless.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

wazzupi said:


> I appreciate your suggestions, but I'm looking for a wired solution not wireless. I fear i might run into latency problems when using it on my pc.


My mistake. Thought by wired you were referring to a neckband style. Not sure you're going to find much in terms of wired anc earbuds, I'm afraid. Is the ANC a requirement?


----------



## jant71

miserybeforethemusic said:


> My mistake. Thought by wired you were referring to a neckband style. Not sure you're going to find much in terms of wired anc earbuds, I'm afraid. Is the ANC a requirement?



They might have to go neckband style. Several of them can be used wired.

Question to the other new N6 Pro2 owners. Not sure where you acquired from but did you get the microfiber pouch taped to the box?...



Guess it was this instead of the Spin Fit this time.


----------



## wazzupi

miserybeforethemusic said:


> My mistake. Thought by wired you were referring to a neckband style. Not sure you're going to find much in terms of wired anc earbuds, I'm afraid. Is the ANC a requirement?


any type of anc passive or otherwise I wouldn't be against.


----------



## rhsauer

wazzupi said:


> I'm looking for a QC20 alternative ? as in a wired ANC earbud. I'd much appreciate anyone's suggestions. Thank you


You might try the Nuraloop.  Price is down to at least $150 and they can be used wirelessly or wired.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

wazzupi said:


> any type of anc passive or otherwise I wouldn't be against.


Well, nothing has given me better passive isolation than Etymotic (the ER line, specifically). Granted, you have to be comfortable with that insertion depth, but nothing else I own comes close in terms of shutting the world out. Power requirements are pretty lax, too, so you wouldn't need a crazy setup to make it sound great. Considering I'm pretty sure I saw a ER2XR in the HF classifieds with a tuning kit included for $60, I don't think you're going to find a better deal at the moment. Perhaps the Nuraloop that @rhsauer suggested.

Then, if you decide you want to take them wireless later, can easily find a neckband-style adapter for it. Their Etymotion cable does have aptX HD and utilizes AKM Velvet Sound (whatever that's supposed to be...it's AKM), which in my opinion justifies the premium.


----------



## senorbroom

wazzupi said:


> I appreciate your suggestions, but I'm looking for a wired solution not wireless. I fear i might run into latency problems when using it on my pc.


https://www.aliexpress.com/i/32820775459.html


----------



## SynaestheticA

Juturna said:


> o you guys prefer having just one set of earbuds that you just use as your daily driver, or do you prefer having plenty of different sets of earbuds for different use cases?
> 
> Right now i'm still deciding between just getting one more expensive earbud like the WF-1000XM4



From my experience and from observation of other people I would recommend going for the more expensive buds. The XM4 seem pretty legit. If you go for cheaper ones you are never going to stop buying cheaper sets until one day you end up buying the more expensive ones anyway.

You might end up spending the same amount of money as eventually you will want a new experience than the XM4 but from my experience finally spending $180 on a great pair instead of $50-100 on 4 + pretty good or average pairs I can say that my lust for new TWS will be satiated for a few months. Hopefully over a year.


----------



## SynaestheticA

jant71 said:


> They might have to go neckband style. Several of them can be used wired.
> 
> Question to the other new N6 Pro2 owners. Not sure where you acquired from but did you get the microfiber pouch taped to the box?...
> 
> Guess it was this instead of the Spin Fit this time.


Got one of the first sets to arrive in Australia and no Microfiber or Spinfit was included.


----------



## DRuM (Jul 21, 2021)

Quick update, in particular FAO samandhi and miserybeforethemusic (great name ) regarding my Creative Outlier Air v2 TWS. They very kindly recommended me to try some other buds with long battery life and a more analytical sound as I was complaining about aspects of these such as  mid bass slam.

I was going to go and demo the Melomania Touch. My update is that I decided not to bother to get a demo or look any further for buds because something changed and I'm now absolutely in love with these buds. I took them on the train with me for the first time a few days ago and then walked around London with my camera and honestly, I was so impressed with the sound quality these have. The bass cuts nicely through most of the engine rumbling when on a train.

They're not bass monsters as such but they do have a lot of bass and such a nice deep solid thump, (I listen to Steely Dan most of the time), that I find them irresistible.  I think I might prefer them now to my wired ibasso IT01, at least, for the lower end of bass. ibasso still win on the mid or upper bass and feeling a sense of air being moved by the kick drum, but I can enjoy both buds for those two different aspects.  The Creative has a really nice warm and fat sound. I've gotten used to the sound signature and enjoy them for what they offer without needing to compare to my other buds anymore.  A joy to listen to and any issues I thought these had at the beginning with clipping haven't reappeared. Oh, and I thought I'd lost them yesterday until I realised I'd left them in a shop and was able to rush back to retrieve them before they closed!


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

DRuM said:


> I was going to go and demo the Melomania Touch. My update is that I decided not to bother to get a demo or look any further for buds because something changed and I'm now absolutely in love with these buds. I took them on the train with me for the first time a few days ago and then walked around London with my camera and honestly, I was so impressed with the sound quality these have. The bass cuts nicely through most of the engine rumbling when on a train.


Awesome! I haven't commuted in so long, I forgot commutes are the perfect use case for that type of sound signature! Same would apply to the stuff everyone complains about being V-shaped. Take that same pair on a metro and you'd be far more likely to call it "balanced" because of the ambient noise.


DRuM said:


> They're not bass monsters as such but they do have a lot of bass and such a nice deep solid thump, (I listen to Steely Dan most of the time), that I find them irresistible.  I think I might prefer them now to my wired ibasso IT01, at least, for the lower end of bass. ibasso still win on the mid or upper bass and feeling a sense of air being moved by the kick drum, but I can enjoy both buds for those two different aspects.  The Creative has a really nice warm and fat sound. I've gotten used to the sound signature and enjoy them for what they offer without needing to compare to my other buds anymore.  A joy to listen to and any issues I thought these had at the beginning with clipping haven't reappeared. Oh, and I thought I'd lost them yesterday until I realised I'd left them in a shop and was able to rush back to retrieve them before they closed!


Well thank goodness you were able to get them back. That sounds like it would have been heartbreaking.


----------



## samandhi

DRuM said:


> Quick update, in particular FAO samandhi and miserybeforethemusic (great name ) regarding my Creative Outlier Air v2 TWS. They very kindly recommended me to try some other buds with long battery life and a more analytical sound as I was complaining about aspects of these such as  mid bass slam.
> 
> I was going to go and demo the Melomania Touch. My update is that I decided not to bother to get a demo or look any further for buds because something changed and I'm now absolutely in love with these buds. I took them on the train with me for the first time a few days ago and then walked around London with my camera and honestly, I was so impressed with the sound quality these have. The bass cuts nicely through most of the engine rumbling when on a train.
> 
> They're not bass monsters as such but they do have a lot of bass and such a nice deep solid thump, (I listen to Steely Dan most of the time), that I find them irresistible.  I think I might prefer them now to my wired ibasso IT01, at least, for the lower end of bass. ibasso still win on the mid or upper bass and feeling a sense of air being moved by the kick drum, but I can enjoy both buds for those two different aspects.  The Creative has a really nice warm and fat sound. I've gotten used to the sound signature and enjoy them for what they offer without needing to compare to my other buds anymore.  A joy to listen to and any issues I thought these had at the beginning with clipping haven't reappeared. Oh, and I thought I'd lost them yesterday until I realised I'd left them in a shop and was able to rush back to retrieve them before they closed!


Do they give you that sound you are looking for to hear the drums? For me they do very nicely in that realm. Now that you have them, listen to some Rush (anything from) "Moving Pictures" or "2112", and you should enjoy the absolute magic that is Neal Peart (IMO). Congratz!


----------



## chinmie

Juturna said:


> Do you guys prefer having just one set of earbuds that you just use as your daily driver, or do you prefer having plenty of different sets of earbuds for different use cases?
> 
> Right now i'm still deciding between just getting one more expensive earbud like the WF-1000XM4 or Devialet Gemini's, or trying to find some nice open box deals and good value for the money-type earbuds, like I found the Bowers & Wilkins PI5 for $120, Bose QC Buds for $100, and then possibly might spring for Soundcore Life P3, Edifier Neobuds Pro, Moondrop Sparks, Status Between Pro, Soundpeats H1, or Earfun Free Pro or something like that.
> 
> ...



i myself use several different sets of cheaper and mid priced TWS that i use in rotation, especially when bingeing episodes on netflix, that i might use 2 or 3 sets in one day because of the battery. i also like using open earbuds design or closed ANC enabled TWS depending on the situation. If i really want to listen to music wirelessly, i would opt for my BT20S Pro solution instead. 

my personal reasoning is that higher priced TWS would drop in price and tech quite rapidly, so it’s more reasonable to have several cheaper ones instead


----------



## SteveKiwi

chinmie said:


> i myself use several different sets of cheaper and mid priced TWS that i use in rotation, especially when bingeing episodes on netflix, that i might use 2 or 3 sets in one day because of the battery. i also like using open earbuds design or closed ANC enabled TWS depending on the situation. If i really want to listen to music wirelessly, i would opt for my BT20S Pro solution instead.
> 
> my personal reasoning is that higher priced TWS would drop in price and tech quite rapidly, so it’s more reasonable to have several cheaper ones instead


That certainly makes sense


----------



## Caipirina (Jul 22, 2021)

wazzupi said:


> I'm looking for a QC20 alternative ? as in a wired ANC earbud. I'd much appreciate anyone's suggestions. Thank you


I think this is a dying breed with the QC20 being the pinnacle of the species. Before those I used and very much liked the Audio Technica ath anc23 ... not sure if those can still be found.

https://www.cnet.com/reviews/audio-technica-ath-anc23-review/

just also remembering the JBL Reflect Aware, which sounded great, but died for unknown reasons. Not sure if the only came with lightning plug. ANC was decent
https://www.jbl.com.sg/noise-cancelling-headphones/REFLECT+AWARE.html?dwvar_REFLECT AWARE_color=Black-GLOBAL-Current&cgid=noise-cancelling-headphones#start=1

There was also a TaoTronics model which was not that great anyways and seems to have vanished


----------



## bizkid (Jul 22, 2021)

After a week with the Sennheiser CX TWS i'm going to send them back. This is just my personal opinion but even besides personal taste in the tuning, these aren't anything special on a technical basis either. The Bass, even though it's not as bumped as some other IEM, overshadows and veiles the mids by a good degree. Turning the bass down on the Sennheiser EQ helps but its still lacking in clarity when there is no bass left. I have headphones with more bass but still much clearer mids. Bass impact is average, soundstage is average, detail is average. Nothing really stands out on this TWS but you could also say nothing offends either. I really like Sennheiser, i love the Momentum 3, HD800S, HD560S, HD25 and some others. Wanted to enjoy this but it was no match.


----------



## Ders Olmaz

Anyone try mw02, n6pro or lots of tws and rank them here?


----------



## Firevortex

jant71 said:


> They might have to go neckband style. Several of them can be used wired.
> 
> Question to the other new N6 Pro2 owners. Not sure where you acquired from but did you get the microfiber pouch taped to the box?...
> 
> Guess it was this instead of the Spin Fit this time.



got mine from Earspan in Australia and no microfiber pouch. Is this from Japan?


----------



## jant71

Firevortex said:


> got mine from Earspan in Australia and no microfiber pouch. Is this from Japan?


Yep, from japan. Can come in handy more for cleaning. Even though the case has the satin/sateen finish it does show fingerprints.


----------



## Juturna

Does anyone know if there's any trustworthy stores where you can order the Nuarl earbuds to Europe? It seems like they only have a presence in Asia, NZ/AUS and the US, and they seem to have pretty interesting stuff!

Also, for any of you who remembered that I had a dispute with a store about the fact that they put up the Sennheiser MTW2's for $135 instead of $269 but refused to sell it to me for that price? I filed a claim against the store with the The National Board for Consumer Disputes, found out that I won that claim so I actually get to buy them for that price. When I had finally decided to buy the Sonys... lmao. But yeah i'll probably get the Senns now.


----------



## jant71 (Jul 22, 2021)

wazzupi said:


> I'm looking for a QC20 alternative ? as in a wired ANC earbud. I'd much appreciate anyone's suggestions. Thank you


@wazzupi - Got a Phiaton email today and remembered they did decent wired ANC models and might still have at least one...
https://phiaton.com/collections/noise-cancelling/products/ps-202-nc


----------



## Caipirina

jant71 said:


> @wazzupi - Got a Phiaton email today and remembered they did decent wired ANC models and might still have at least one...
> https://phiaton.com/collections/noise-cancelling/products/ps-202-nc



Oooooh .. Phiaton, that's a blast from the past .. I had their early ANC / BT model, which was still too much wiring for working out .. also, the BT unit died quickly and I managed to send it back to amazon while on vacation


----------



## PeteSTRADAMUS

I'm really stuck in a pickle here. Can't decide between the X4, Falcon Pro, pi7. I'm going to finally pull the trigger tomorrow and retire my beats pro I used at the gym for like 2 years straight. Sq and gain are most important to me. I've missed a lot of pages so does anyone have any input?


----------



## jant71

PeteSTRADAMUS said:


> I'm really stuck in a pickle here. Can't decide between the X4, Falcon Pro, pi7. I'm going to finally pull the trigger tomorrow and retire my beats pro I used at the gym for like 2 years straight. Sq and gain are most important to me. I've missed a lot of pages so does anyone have any input?


You mean XM4 right? If you want the Gym then you could use the ANC so Noble is gone. PI7 may have the absolute best SQ but in the gym it may not even come through there so is it worth the extra price and any possible issues and much lower battery life. That leaves the XM4 in the lead.


----------



## PeteSTRADAMUS

jant71 said:


> You mean XM4 right? If you want the Gym then you could use the ANC so Noble is gone. PI7 may have the absolute best SQ but in the gym it may not even come through there so is it worth the extra price and any possible issues and much lower battery life. That leaves the XM4 in the lead.


From what I gathered is that the Nobles get pretty loud. My beats pros in ear get loud enough to drown out all the noise there. I'm kind of leaning to getting the Sonys tomorrow and giving them a try.


----------



## jant71

PeteSTRADAMUS said:


> From what I gathered is that the Nobles get pretty loud. My beats pros in ear get loud enough to drown out all the noise there. I'm kind of leaning to getting the Sonys tomorrow and giving them a try.



Well if just turning up the volume was a great answer we might not have/need ANC but it really isn't so good for your ears.


----------



## chinmie

PeteSTRADAMUS said:


> From what I gathered is that the Nobles get pretty loud. My beats pros in ear get loud enough to drown out all the noise there. I'm kind of leaning to getting the Sonys tomorrow and giving them a try.



i tried my ANC TWS in the gym when there's a zumba class's subwoofer-y music blasting away. 
it's surprising at the difference of volume needed to be audibly enjoyable and drown the background sound...with ANC on i can turn down the volume quite a lot compared to when i toggle the ANC off. after that i would not consider using just a regular passive isolation for any situation with similar background noise level.


----------



## PeteSTRADAMUS

jant71 said:


> Well if just turning up the volume was a great answer we might not have/need ANC but it really isn't so good for your ears.


It's too late for that "isn't too great for your ears" lol. Years of loud music already messed me up.


----------



## DRuM (Jul 22, 2021)

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Awesome! I haven't commuted in so long, I forgot commutes are the perfect use case for that type of sound signature! Same would apply to the stuff everyone complains about being V-shaped. Take that same pair on a metro and you'd be far more likely to call it "balanced" because of the ambient noise.
> 
> Well thank goodness you were able to get them back. That sounds like it would have been heartbreaking.


Yeah, you're right actually, for commuting, more bass does seem to cut through the really loud train rumbling. But also, these create a great seal quite deep in my ears.

Yes, I was reaching around for the long metal Creative case in my camera bag and was like "Damn, they're not here!" I thought maybe I'd dragged the case out of the bag accidentally without knowing while I was changing lenses and it's likely dropped onto a pavement and some lucky person just got free TWS. They cost me £64 which is about $89. I sighed and resigned myself to having to re-purchase them.

Then I thought, maybe there's a chance I left them in a new camera bag I'd tried in a camera shop earlier, as I'd transferred all my camera gear from my old bag into the new bag just to test the weight and comfort. I didn't buy the bag in the end. Anyway, I phoned them and asked if anything was left in the bag. He went and checked and came back to the phone and said "I found something that looks like a charger?" I said "Does it have Creative printed on it?" And he said it did. Phew!!  The shop was about to close in just under ten minutes so I legged it and managed to get there with 5 minutes to spare and retrieved the buds. Very relieved with a happy ending. 



samandhi said:


> Do they give you that sound you are looking for to hear the drums? For me they do very nicely in that realm. Now that you have them, listen to some Rush (anything from) "Moving Pictures" or "2112", and you should enjoy the absolute magic that is Neal Peart (IMO). Congratz!


samandhi, yeah, they definitely do actually. I really enjoy the way the drums sound on these. I use these tips, they're the largest size that came with the buds. Looking at them I didn't think they'd produce much bottom end, but they really do.






I  haven't gone back and listened to my ibasso for a while so it'll be interesting to compare again. But the Creative overall sound is so full and solid and smooth. Has similarities to me of my Sennheiser 580.  Yes, Neil Peart, amazing player. I shall check out those records!


----------



## wazzupi

jant71 said:


> @wazzupi - Got a Phiaton email today and remembered they did decent wired ANC models and might still have at least one...
> https://phiaton.com/collections/noise-cancelling/products/ps-202-nc


I actually bought a pair of akg k391 NC for 24 bucks(Amazon) they look brand new in box(states new). And work well. They sound pretty good too. Supposedly 39 hours of battery but charge time is 5.5 hours xD but you can use them while they charge. I wonder if these phiaton would sound better.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic (Jul 23, 2021)

PeteSTRADAMUS said:


> I'm really stuck in a pickle here. Can't decide between the X4, Falcon Pro, pi7. I'm going to finally pull the trigger tomorrow and retire my beats pro I used at the gym for like 2 years straight. Sq and gain are most important to me. I've missed a lot of pages so does anyone have any input?


Only one_ (I own is)_ the Falcon Pro, but I think you'll have plenty of gain to use and the EQ should help combat peaks as you move up the F-M curve. Even though they don't have a wing of any sort, they stay in place just fine, but I'm not sure how that'd hold up over time and as you start to sweat.

Is the Melomania Touch out of contention? You'll get more passive isolation than you reasonably need with the right tip choice and, at least in my book, it's easier to shrug off losing a $120 pair of TWS to a $300 after rigorous use. Tonally, I think those will make you happier anyway. Otherwise, I think you'd be good with the Pro, but you will have to play with EQ for a bit.


jant71 said:


> Well if just turning up the volume was a great answer we might not have/need ANC but it really isn't so good for your ears.


Passive isolation is rock solid on them, too, so you don't really have to crank volume much. To my eyes, I don't see any driver vents, which is probably why things get so quiet once they're on. To be honest, it's the HearThrough that I'm not a big fan of.


DRuM said:


> Yeah, you're right actually, for commuting, more bass does seem to cut through the really loud train rumbling. But also, these create a great seal quite deep in my ears.
> 
> Yes, I was reaching around for the long metal Creative case in my camera bag and was like "Damn, they're not here!" I thought maybe I'd dragged the case out of the bag accidentally without knowing while I was changing lenses and it's likely dropped onto a pavement and some lucky person just got free TWS. They cost me £64 which is about $89. I sighed and resigned myself to having to re-purchase them.
> 
> ...


That's awesome! I've been pretty happy with Creative's audio gear for its price point. Use the Pebble 2.0 speakers at my desktop because they're one of the few that have present bass, but never overwhelms vocals. Makes for a great diffuse listening experience at the desk.

_Edited for syntax 20210723_


----------



## gwompki

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Only one the Falcon Pro, but I think you'll have plenty of gain to use and the EQ should help combat peaks as you move up the F-M curve. Even though they don't have a wing of any sort, they stay in place just fine, but I'm not sure how that'd hold up over time and as you start to sweat.
> 
> Is the Melomania Touch out of contention? You'll get more passive isolation than you reasonably need with the right tip choice and, at least in my book, it's easier to shrug off losing a $120 pair of TWS to a $300 after rigorous use. Tonally, I think those will make you happier anyway. Otherwise, I think you'd be good with the Pro, but you will have to play with EQ for a bit.
> 
> ...


I agree with all of this. 

 If you are really keen to spend more money, check out the Devialet Gemini $300USD.  They sound the best out of everything I have tried (have not tried the PI7) including the XM4.  I had multiple technical issues with mine and their battery life is not stellar (but neither is the PI7 for $100 USD more.)  I could not justify keeping them with those problems at their price point.

That said, the Melomania Touch are a fantastic all rounder that I have finally settled on as my gym buds at $129USD.  I have tested 7 sets at this point (I think) and at the price point, the MT are hard to beat. They are not without their quirks, but for the price I am willing to overlook.  

The Moondrop Sparks are a close second for me.  Very different sound signature than the MT.  More analytical/hifi sounding.  Surprisingly great for metal/punk/guitar driven tunes.  Unfortunately no app support/EQ/etc.  Also the fit is weird, but manages to remain comfortable.

I think the Nuarl N6 Pro 2 is one to keep your eyes on as well.  Early reports sound promising.


----------



## PeteSTRADAMUS

If I choose to purchase the Falcon pro tomorrow will the sedna xelaxtec fit or do I have to purchase the tws Crystal one? The one made for tws iems.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

PeteSTRADAMUS said:


> If I choose to purchase the Falcon pro tomorrow will the sedna xelaxtec fit or do I have to purchase the tws Crystal one? The one made for tws iems.


They fit normal size tips, so XELASTEC should be fine. May need to go a size down, though, as the nozzles are long


----------



## aaa2k4

chinmie said:


> soo... how many is too many?


this is the combo i am trying to get tin t2s and the trn20 either that or the utws3 not sure yet depending on sound quality. also looking for a real good anc iem as well. those look sick!


----------



## assassin10000

aaa2k4 said:


> this is the combo i am trying to get tin t2s and the trn20 either that or the utws3 not sure yet depending on sound quality. also looking for a real good anc iem as well. those look sick!



Looks like the next version of TWS adapters from Fiio is gonna be released soon'ish. May be worth waiting for. I'm hoping for built in QI charging and an option for straight MMCX plugs (not angled). We will see.



FiiO Willson said:


> Soon, it may be released in August or September


----------



## SynaestheticA

My plan of not needing to get any more TWS after the N6 Pro 2 hasn't even lasted a week. I now have the Nuarl N10 Pro. I'll put a comparison up when I can.


----------



## FiiO Willson

assassin10000 said:


> Looks like the next version of TWS adapters from Fiio is gonna be released soon'ish. May be worth waiting for. I'm hoping for built in QI charging and an option for straight MMCX plugs (not angled). We will see.


QI charging, this can meet you


----------



## go0gle

I'm still enjoying my liberty pro 2 .. is time for an upgrade?


----------



## Juturna

Sooo, I picked up my Sennheiser MTW2's that I managed to snag for $135 like I mentioned earlier. Now i'm just thinking... if I should even open these and try them out or just sell them for a bit more than I bought them for (sorry, i'm not trying to be a "scalper" but I could still sell them for a decent price and still make a few bucks on them) and buy the Sony XM4's that I had originally decided to buy? 

I feel like the Sennheisers were too good of a deal to pass on here, but I feel like they're probably not all the way what I want from a pair of earbuds. I would really want a pair with better ANC and also earbuds that CAN be bass cannons when I want them to (but not always) without sacrificing details too much. The Sony's seem to be a bit more complete when it comes to that.


----------



## jant71

Well after having some time with the N6 Pro2 I have to say they are the most complete TWS so far. They work 100%. The controls respond right away and I have gotten used to their position. The buttons being toward the front took a few times to get used to. I might have preferred toward the back so the front has more room to adjust using thumb in back and forefinger in front but not an issue. You learn it after a bit. Battery life is good, controls are good, reception/stability is as good as any so far. Comfort is good and fit is good and got easier with time just not like my JVC AE5T where you just push them in and done. Maybe a little pushing the fin in place is needed but fine. Only thing I don't really like is still the ambient volume. Good usually but not great for noisier places. I was mailing out a pair of earphones I sold and when I got to the window I felt the need to take a side out to hear better against the noise from a bunch of other patrons going about their business.

I settled on some firmer very wide bore clear tips that I don't really know. Just in the kit but what they came from beats me Still shows they did burn in some. Airier and a bit bigger and the sound did flesh out and tighten up. That these are longer tips and not TWS short styles just confirms the bass has settled down so I am fine using normal tips now and get no bloat on the note effect like out of the box. 

Stage and air is a bit bigger and quite good except for the height which, above average, is not as good as the width or even the depth. Good but not quite as impressive as the other two. Would be almost a huge stage with a coupe step up in the height. Still big and roomy and far from cramped.  The bass amount is great and satisfying. Tight but capable of great power when called for. It has weight and reach and detail and texture and great imaging and placement. They do that throughout the whole range. Accurate and correct and the weight and 3D nature of all the notes is natural and sounds right. That is about the size of it. Pretty much everything sound right and is done well enough to satisfy and really impress for a TWS. Can certainly compete with some wired stuff.  Complete and satisfying. If you want it it has it and done quite well. Note weight and depth, the placement, the detail, the texture, tightness and dynamics. Extension on both ends I am very happy with esp. for TWS but again good for a single dynamic even wired. Can go toe to toe with the DUNU Zen on those fronts. They don't say anything about having a built in amp but they sound like they do. They also take to EQ so I am sure they will satisfy most who decide to buy them. Think being really the third try after the N6 and N6 Pro they really dialed it in just right this time.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

Been back on the Melomania Touch this week and it still blows my mind just how "right" they got the tonality on that set. I've since switched over from the Azla Crystal to the EPro TW00 (need the extra length, not so much the width) and they're just so dang comfortable for long-term listening.



Perhaps more surprising is that, even at lower volumes, I'm picking up a lot of the overtones and harmonics from synths that I don't think I was picking up on before. Albums like Boogie Belgique's _Volta_ are an absolute treat with the MT as a result and I think they do a phenomenal job of staying firmly planted in the "musical" TWS category without sacrificing on resolution. Gym, home, commuting, I think it's been said a lot before, but the Melomania Touch is probably the most qualified TWS in my stable for EDC status.


jant71 said:


> Well after having some time with the N6 Pro2 I have to say they are the most complete TWS so far. They work 100%. The controls respond right away and I have gotten used to their position. The buttons being toward the front took a few times to get used to. I might have preferred toward the back so the front has more room to adjust using thumb in back and forefinger in front but not an issue. You learn it after a bit. Battery life is good, controls are good, reception/stability is as good as any so far. Comfort is good and fit is good and got easier with time just not like my JVC AE5T where you just push them in and done. Maybe a little pushing the fin in place is needed but fine. Only thing I don't really like is still the ambient volume. Good usually but not great for noisier places. I was mailing out a pair of earphones I sold and when I got to the window I felt the need to take a side out to hear better against the noise from a bunch of other patrons going about their business.


The irony behind you and I both coming out with statements like that right on top of each other is pretty funny, but also pretty awesome. Nice for people to have choices


----------



## BigZ12

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Been back on the Melomania Touch this week and it still blows my mind just how "right" they got the tonality on that set. I've since switched over from the Azla Crystal to the EPro TW00 (need the extra length, not so much the width) and they're just so dang comfortable for long-term listening.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Would love to check them out, but they are impossible to get hold of in Norway


----------



## C_Lindbergh

BigZ12 said:


> Would love to check them out, but they are impossible to get hold of in Norway



Buy them directly from Cambridge Audio? They should ship to Norway too since they shipped to my country (Sweden).


----------



## Juturna

Also, an update on my thoughts of the
*Earfun Free Pro - Oluv Edition:*

Honestly, these are *GOOD. *The sound signature took me awhile to get used to because i've almost exclusively always had buds with a more v-shaped sound signature...
But damn I really enjoy these. The clarity and details are on point, the positioning is fantastic, and mostly everything that was recorded well sounds really damn good. Soundstage seems average, not what I'd call big but it's not entirely "in-your-head" either, instruments are well-separated and you can tell where the sound is coming from but it doesn't extend that far out to the sides.

I thought it sounded quite "flat" at the start when using them but they definitely aren't, but I would absolutely call them neutral. I don't believe in burn-in being real but they honestly sound completely different from when I first picked them up, and I think it's just me getting used to the way they sound.

I don't want to hype them up too much because I haven't tried other more "neutral" offerings like the Lyperteks, Technics, etc, but they're probably one of my favorite earbuds that I've used at this point and i've tried plenty of earbuds costing 5x as much basically.  If I look at them from a pure convenience standpoint they won't win any awards, the ANC doesn't remove much but it does help a little bit, the call quality seems to be okay, not Sony WF-1000XM3 bad, but not the best. Haven't gotten any complaints from other people like I have with several other earbuds, but I have had to repeat myself a few times when I talked to people. The charging case being pretty slim and having wireless charging is super nice though.

They sound fantastic when listening to music with real instruments, at least some genres. It's not the best for metal, hardcore and music like that. But music with a less heavy sound is really nice, like Pinegrove, The Antlers, The Mars Volta, Kero Kero Bonito just to mention a few. It just sounds so natural and... clean? Drums sound really snappy and I feel like I can actually the characteristics of the drum kit they're playing and individual cymbals and crash hits which at least to me can be difficult to pick out with certain earbuds. 
Also tried a bunch of 90's jams that just sounded so good too. 

Those parts of my music taste might not be the most dominant part, but electronic music and pop also sounds really good, and you can definitely get some good punch when you listen to something heavier but electronic like Deathpact, but I sometimes feel like a little bit more bass slam could be nice when listening to drum & bass like Metrik and Netsky.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic (Jul 23, 2021)

Juturna said:


> Those parts of my music taste might not be the most dominant part, but electronic music and pop also sounds really good, and you can definitely get some good punch when you listen to something heavier but electronic like Deathpact, but I sometimes feel like a little bit more bass slam could be nice when listening to drum & bass_* like Metrik and Netsky*_.


Oh you and I could have a grand old time sharing music. Big fan of Hospital and RAM. If you haven't added this album into your collection, I highly recommend it. _Altitude _is one of my favorite test tracks for big fat open-backs. If it can nail the bassline on the chorus, that pair's a winner:


----------



## BigZ12

C_Lindbergh said:


> Buy them directly from Cambridge Audio? They should ship to Norway too since they shipped to my country (Sweden).


No, they don't ship to Norway from their home page. Very strange, but I think it's due to some distributor mess?


----------



## mainguy

jant71 said:


> You mean XM4 right? If you want the Gym then you could use the ANC so Noble is gone. PI7 may have the absolute best SQ but in the gym it may not even come through there so is it worth the extra price and any possible issues and much lower battery life. That leaves the XM4 in the lead.


he literally said SQ was most important to him dude….


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

mainguy said:


> he literally said SQ was most important to him dude….


Levio-saaaah, levi-oooh-sa 

The problem with a statement like that is...what aspects of SQ are more important to them? Haven't found a do-all TWS yet (tonally speaking), unfortunately.


----------



## jant71

mainguy said:


> he literally said SQ was most important to him dude….


And I said since the gym kills some SQ and ANC can preserve it so there is little edge to the Noble. Why is that not about SQ? Ever been to the gym and cranking something especially since it is a hybrid with different drivers can be troublesome. Not to mention if the Noble even has the headroom to be cranked. XM4 still seems the safer bet.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

jant71 said:


> And I said since the gym kills some SQ and ANC can preserve it so there is little edge to the Noble. Why is that not about SQ? Ever been to the gym and cranking something especially since it is a hybrid with different drivers can be troublesome. Not to mention if the Noble even has the headroom to be cranked. XM4 still seems the safer bet.


Noble has an egregious amount of headroom on the 8T. My biggest gripe with using it is I have to drive the preamp gain down to -9dB just to have a usable volume range or it's deafeningly loud after 3 or 4 clicks. A lot of that has to do with the BAs being positioned right at the nozzle mesh, so it's practically in your ear canal already. The EQ is, thankfully, pretty responsive and at the Noble app level, meaning it should be a universal setting.

It's just $300 and quickly getting outpaced by the competition as price drops. If they had a little better passive isolation, I'd be recommending the FITS instead.


----------



## mainguy

jant71 said:


> And I said since the gym kills some SQ and ANC can preserve it so there is little edge to the Noble. Why is that not about SQ? Ever been to the gym and cranking something especially since it is a hybrid with different drivers can be troublesome. Not to mention if the Noble even has the headroom to be cranked. XM4 still seems the safer bet.


He literally said SQ is his priority, so either he’s using it outside of the gym (highly likely), or, unlike you, sq is important to him during a workout.

Im pretty sure he knows what hes after…


----------



## mainguy

PeteSTRADAMUS said:


> I'm really stuck in a pickle here. Can't decide between the X4, Falcon Pro, pi7. I'm going to finally pull the trigger tomorrow and retire my beats pro I used at the gym for like 2 years straight. Sq and gain are most important to me. I've missed a lot of pages so does anyone have any input?


If you have an iPhone skip the Pi7 (they sound poor on AAC compared to aptx hd). If SQ really is your priority, gauging from responses here its Falcon/PI7 > XM4.

Its generally agreed the xm4 sq and pi7 sq are similar on iPhone from what I can tell. I have the Pi7 and they sound miiles better on aptx HD, so take from that what you will. Flossy Carter did a comparison of the Pi7 and XM4 on his youtube channel you might want to check out


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

mainguy said:


> Its generally agreed the xm4 sq and pi7 sq are similar on iPhone from what I can tell. I have the Pi7 and they sound miiles better on aptx HD, so take from that what you will. Flossy Carter did a comparison of the Pi7 and XM4 on his youtube channel you might want to check out


Major caveat that Flossy's preferred sound signature is pretty close to the opposite of what most people here favor (his words: maximum bass, maximum highs, minimum mids). His videos are good resources for the features and to get a visual, but I don't trust his ears at all, especially after having seen some of the EQ curves he builds.

Let me emphasize: I appreciate what he does for the community and I'm not trying to trash-talk him, but folks should understand what he's after in a set of TWS and how, more than likely, his sound preferences are incompatible (at best) with ours.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

My top 3 for SQ (no other criteria considered, in no specific order):

1. Melomania Touch
2. UE FITS
3. Technics AZ70W

And I know I just sang praises about the Falcon Pro, but if you can get any of these at $150 or less, I wouldn't even bother with the Noble. The MTs have wings (great for stability in the gym, especially with the EPro TW00 tips), FITS are semi-custom and don't budge once they're in, but might leak a little more noise which makes them less ideal for noisy gyms. The Technics have the least confident fit, but fantastic ANC, workable Audio PassThrough, and is more suited for acoustic/live material. Just have to keep the battery drain issue in the back of your mind and make sure you top off the charge if it's been on the shelf for a while.

And, of those three, I believe more people will pick up and immediately like the MT over the other two; both the Technics and UE are more of a "grower" set.


----------



## PeteSTRADAMUS

mainguy said:


> If you have an iPhone skip the Pi7 (they sound poor on AAC compared to aptx hd). If SQ really is your priority, gauging from responses here its Falcon/PI7 > XM4.
> 
> Its generally agreed the xm4 sq and pi7 sq are similar on iPhone from what I can tell. I have the Pi7 and they sound miiles better on aptx HD, so take from that what you will. Flossy Carter did a comparison of the Pi7 and XM4 on his youtube channel you might want to check out


No iPhone here. I have the Galaxy z fold 2. I purchased the Nobles. They should get here tomorrow or Monday.


----------



## PeteSTRADAMUS

mainguy said:


> He literally said SQ is his priority, so either he’s using it outside of the gym (highly likely), or, unlike you, sq is important to him during a workout.
> 
> Im pretty sure he knows what hes after…


I'll be using it at home too. I sold off all my serious gear. So I'm kind of doing a fresh reset until I get some good stuff in a few months.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

PeteSTRADAMUS said:


> No iPhone here. I have the Galaxy z fold 2. I purchased the Nobles. They should get here tomorrow or Monday.


Congrats! Forgot to mention earlier that you may find the stock tips work just fine for you. I know you were considering the SEDNAFIT, but I'm hoping they're not necessary. If you do decide to tip-roll, however, just be careful to not pull too hard; the glue joint holding that nozzle in place came apart on a couple of our sets. In both cases, Noble agreed to fix it, but hopefully you can avoid that altogether.


PeteSTRADAMUS said:


> I'll be using it at home too. I sold off all my serious gear. So I'm kind of doing a fresh reset until I get some good stuff in a few months.


More power to you, bud. What are you planning to get?


----------



## PeteSTRADAMUS

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Congrats! Forgot to mention earlier that you may find the stock tips work just fine for you. I know you were considering the SEDNAFIT, but I'm hoping they're not necessary. If you do decide to tip-roll, however, just be careful to not pull too hard; the glue joint holding that nozzle in place came apart on a couple of our sets. In both cases, Noble agreed to fix it, but hopefully you can avoid that altogether.
> 
> More power to you, bud. What are you planning to get?


I ordered the xelastec. I hope MS fits. I used those tips for all my high end iems and they're awesome. We'll see how it goes. I'll post my impressions in a few days.


----------



## PeteSTRADAMUS

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Congrats! Forgot to mention earlier that you may find the stock tips work just fine for you. I know you were considering the SEDNAFIT, but I'm hoping they're not necessary. If you do decide to tip-roll, however, just be careful to not pull too hard; the glue joint holding that nozzle in place came apart on a couple of our sets. In both cases, Noble agreed to fix it, but hopefully you can avoid that altogether.
> 
> More power to you, bud. What are you planning to get?


At the moment I don't know. Whatever I like is some serious coin. And I'll see if there are some new releases before the years end. Right now I'm truly undecided.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

PeteSTRADAMUS said:


> I ordered the xelastec. I hope MS fits. I used those tips for all my high end iems and they're awesome. We'll see how it goes. I'll post my impressions in a few days.


Are you usually a Medium? MS would have been my recommendation as well. They are fantastic tips and I hope Sedna makes a TWS variant of the XELASTEC eventually. The Crystals are pretty good, too, but don't mold like the XELASTEC do.


PeteSTRADAMUS said:


> At the moment I don't know. Whatever I like is some serious coin. And I'll see if there are some new releases before the years end. Right now I'm truly undecided.


Saturated as this market is, I can understand. Eventually, someone's going to make a rock-solid DAC and mate it to a selectable OTL/SS/Class-A stage so I can do everything from one unit. Sadly, we're a ways away from that. Best of luck on the search; more than happy to help


----------



## PeteSTRADAMUS

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Are you usually a Medium? MS would have been my recommendation as well. They are fantastic tips and I hope Sedna makes a TWS variant of the XELASTEC eventually. The Crystals are pretty good, too, but don't mold like the XELASTEC do.
> 
> Saturated as this market is, I can understand. Eventually, someone's going to make a rock-solid DAC and mate it to a selectable OTL/SS/Class-A stage so I can do everything from one unit. Sadly, we're a ways away from that. Best of luck on the search; more than happy to help


Sounds good, brother. Same to you.


----------



## bladefd (Jul 23, 2021)

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Been back on the Melomania Touch this week and it still blows my mind just how "right" they got the tonality on that set. I've since switched over from the Azla Crystal to the EPro TW00 (need the extra length, not so much the width) and they're just so dang comfortable for long-term listening.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I plan on filling out rma form for MT replacement tonight. Now I have begun debating since last night whether to keep replacement or sell it for something else. I was one of the first to get onto the MT bandwagon on release day, but I find myself wondering if there is something else out there since (the usual stuff lol).

Based on the tws you have heard so far going back to early in the year, would you consider any of them upgrades over the MT? At least in sound quality and comfort/fitting departments. I don't use ANC for it to matter. App would be great for EQ so that could be a factor. For comfort, it seems I can just buy a 3rd party tips and be fine regardless of which tws I choose. So I guess that leaves sound quality as the prime category, app, and probably price, which I can think about later.

I know you said you consider MT best in SQ in your later post, so perhaps I'm looking for something that isn't worth looking for. The grass is always greener on the other side. I don't know. I have been happy with the MT for sound quality.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic (Jul 23, 2021)

bladefd said:


> I plan on filling out rma form for MT replacement tonight. Now I have begun debating since last night whether to keep replacement or sell it for something else. I was one of the first to get onto the MT bandwagon on release day, but I find myself wondering if there is something else out there since (the usual stuff lol).
> 
> Based on the tws you have heard so far going back to early in the year, which ones would you consider upgrades over the MT? At least in sound quality and comfort/fitting departments. I don't use ANC for it to matter. App would be great for EQ so that could be a factor. For comfort, it seems I can just buy a 3rd party tips and be fine regardless of which tws I choose. So I guess that leaves sound quality as the prime category, app, and probably price, which I can think about later.


Sonically, the only true "upgrade" to the MT has been the iBasso CF01 and some IEMs. In my opinion, everything else is a downgrade (or lateral move). Most everybody here already has IEMs that will outclass just about every TWS in SQ, so makes more sense to just follow the path of least impedance (don't groan too loudly now).

For comfort/fit, it goes to the UE FITS. Easily. Took a while to come to that conclusion and, tonally, it's one of those sets you have to kinda mentally prepare for. It's considerably more "laid back" without being dark, at least when compared to what most TWS sound like. As a result, I'm usually not that into what I'm listening to until about 30 minutes in and that's when the magic just kinda starts happening. Plus, UE's been dropping the price of these periodically to $169. They're a steal at that price.

Otherwise, I think you're just chasing features and tonalities if you stay within the TWS sphere. I like Sennheiser for vocals and punchy stuff. JBL rawks. Jabra's a workforce workhorse. ADV falls somewhere in between the MT and JBL in terms of tonality. Then there's the WH3 (and eventually the WH2...anybody heard a dang thing on those?) and its adjustable crossover. Saturated market, man.

If LDAC matters above all, get a Qudelix 5K and call the search off. Phenomenal app, great power source, tiiiiiiiny little bugger, and LDAC that genuinely works well. Yes, a cable comes back into the equation, but that's your tradeoff for class-leading LDAC performance. Keep in mind Qudelix developed the LDAC stack _for_ Sony to be used in their BT chip. It's good.


----------



## assassin10000

miserybeforethemusic said:


> They are fantastic tips and I hope Sedna makes a TWS variant of the XELASTEC eventually. The Crystals are pretty good, too, but don't mold like the XELASTEC do.


The air pods pro xelastec can be removed from their base and used as TWS length tips.

Azla confirmed it when I asked on Amazon.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

assassin10000 said:


> The air pods pro xelastec can be removed from their base and used as TWS length tips.
> 
> Azla confirmed it when I asked on Amazon.


Weren't there also complaints that the XELASTEC completely destroyed the Airpods Pro's tonality? I know it's not directly related to your statement, but wanted to know if anybody else had encountered that first-hand. Good to know they're usable with other stuff, though.


----------



## jasonb

I'm still really enjoying the Melomania Touch a whole lot with a bit of EQ within their app. I still have to use foam tips with them though. I'm having no firmware or app issues, but when is the new firmware and app update coming?


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

jasonb said:


> I'm still really enjoying the Melomania Touch a whole lot with a bit of EQ within their app. I still have to use foam tips with them though. I'm having no firmware or app issues, but when is the new firmware and app update coming?


No data, bud, but it's on the horizon. If you're not having any issues with the current version, I don't think there's much to be wary of with the upcoming ones.

Did the EPro TW00 not work out?


----------



## jasonb

miserybeforethemusic said:


> No data, bud, but it's on the horizon. If you're not having any issues with the current version, I don't think there's much to be wary of with the upcoming ones.
> 
> Did the EPro TW00 not work out?


You were saying there were some nice improvements with the app/firmware, so was just curious of an ETA. I have not ordered those tips or any other tips. But nothing is working for me with these except foam. I have no real issues with foam tips other than the second or two it takes to compress the foam before putting them in my ears. Silicone is just easier and quicker. I've even tried shallow insertion on some of the many silicone tips I already own and have the same issues still every time I move at all. Foam is fine...


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

jasonb said:


> You were saying there were some nice improvements with the app/firmware, so was just curious of an ETA. I have not ordered those tips or any other tips. But nothing is working for me with these except foam. I have no real issues with foam tips other than the second or two it takes to compress the foam before putting them in my ears. Silicone is just easier and quicker. I've even tried shallow insertion on some of the many silicone tips I already own and have the same issues still every time I move at all. Foam is fine...


As long as you're good with foam, but they'd be my next recommendation. Case-compatible, no real detriment to the sound sig, and extends the nozzle just enough to where fit seems to be a little more secure/stable. Also less frustrating to get the buds in/out of the case with the TW00 over the Azlas. What matters more is that you're still enjoying them 

I'd provide an ETA if one was provided to me. Unfortunately, that's one arena in which I know about as much as everybody else.


----------



## bladefd (Jul 23, 2021)

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Sonically, the only true "upgrade" to the MT has been the iBasso CF01 and some IEMs. In my opinion, everything else is a downgrade (or lateral move). Most everybody here already has IEMs that will outclass just about every TWS in SQ, so makes more sense to just follow the path of least impedance (don't groan too loudly now).
> 
> For comfort/fit, it goes to the UE FITS. Easily. Took a while to come to that conclusion and, tonally, it's one of those sets you have to kinda mentally prepare for. It's considerably more "laid back" without being dark, at least when compared to what most TWS sound like. As a result, I'm usually not that into what I'm listening to until about 30 minutes in and that's when the magic just kinda starts happening. Plus, UE's been dropping the price of these periodically to $169. They're a steal at that price.
> 
> ...


So essentially I am best off sticking with my original game plan, which was to use the MT until something better comes out. Perhaps next summer, I will have several other solid options (hopefully!) to choose from. I don't see anything compelling enough right now unless if I move onto non-TWS wireless (iBasso) or a Bluetooth LDAC. Both options kind of take out the convenience of using as few hardware parts as possible.

Hopefully something with the sound quality of a Devialet Gemini or the p7 will be available for $200 next summer. $300-400 is simply beyond the boundary for most people.

Thanks as always!


----------



## Juturna

After just using the Sennheiser Momentum True Wireless for a couple of hours I'm pretty sure i'm gonna try to sell these.

Not sure if it's just my ears or what but first and foremost none of the included tips fit me, I usually wear a large tip or even medium if it's a bit bigger, here the Large tip is still too small, no seal whatsoever with a completely puzzling sound.
Switched to some other tips that I have from other earbuds and they actually fit decently but they just don't sound very good to me? Like sure, I don't think they're bad but there's nothing about them that really strikes me as particularly impressive to me?
Maybe it's just a question of getting used to the sound signature but it's just weird to me. There's something about them that makes snares just sound so damn robotic and cymbals sound like they're in like 32 KBPS, despite not at all being a huge "drum-guy". This is also with the "high-end sound tuning" option turned on. 

I tried EQ-ing them through the horribly limited Sennheiser APP to no avail, with the stock tips there was almost zero bass yet still ear-piercing treble, switching to the large XM3 tips I actually got a good seal and some bass that I could actually feel, but I don't quite enjoy the only area of the bass that you seem to be able to affect, it just seems to bloat like crazy. Even when I drag the bass slider down to the bottom in the EQ it's honestly a bit too "rounded off" and boomy in a way, and I can honestly say that I love me some heavy bass. There's just too little slam and fast mid bass but too much lower bass. I think that's mainly an issue with the tips though, because it reminds me of the Sony XM3's and my critique of them when I used these tips on them.
They just sound like they overall have really low resolution to me. I can occasionally hear some promise with these because the separation and soundstage seems good, but I still can't make out enough at all because it just sounds like a mush under all the cymbals. 

I like the soundstage on these but there's something about the treble that just doesn't work for me. Most tracks with vocals or prominent cymbals are rough for me to listen to because of the sibilance that's introduced. I mentioned this a couple weeks back when I tried them in a store but I hoped that it was just a faulty demo unit. Maybe I need to give them a longer time to grow on me though? 
The maximum volume is also pretty damn low, where the highest volume introduces even more sibilance in that hurts my ears, and trying to get rid of the harshness in the treble with the EQ is a mixed bag, it works a bit but then it also seems to make the nice and sparkly part of the treble way less noticeable. I think it's because the EQ only gives you 3 bands to work with, it's kinda abysmal.

Should I keep trying to make these work for me or what do you think? Anyone have any similar experiences with them?


----------



## mainguy

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Major caveat that Flossy's preferred sound signature is pretty close to the opposite of what most people here favor (his words: maximum bass, maximum highs, minimum mids). His videos are good resources for the features and to get a visual, but I don't trust his ears at all, especially after having seen some of the EQ curves he builds.
> 
> Let me emphasize: I appreciate what he does for the community and I'm not trying to trash-talk him, but folks should understand what he's after in a set of TWS and how, more than likely, his sound preferences are incompatible (at best) with ours.


I think his descriptions are generally bang on though, as are his rankings. He is a self admitted bass head and mentions it in his reviews, incidentally I like his descriptions of the bass a lot…Trusting ears is a tough one, but the way he’s ranked tws is more or less how I’ve ranked the 4 pairs I’ve tried. 

The reason I enjoy him is he does head to heads between products. So many tws reviews are clearly out of context, with no real effort into A/Bing the product. Im certain the rankings on whathifi etc are almost totally arbitrary, but someone like floss definately actually sits down and listens to tracks side by side on multiple products. I appreciate that a lot.


----------



## mainguy

I’ve been A/Bing my PI7s and Airpod Pros from hi and low res sources.

It’s actually annoying just how much better the PI7s sound, with all sources. They’re just ahead in every facet of the music.

I say annoying because the Airpods have a better design for ergonomics, comfort, and have much better functionality.

If Apple would just buy Bowers & Wilkins they’d make such a good tws in unison I don’t think we’d even have to bother with this thread. Apple’s design is just so darn good, I wish they’d hurry up and get an a real audio company to work on the sound of their products.


----------



## Juturna

To add on that: The left earbud just stopped working on these brand new earbuds. God this is making me steaming mad, I've been having some terrible luck with my earbuds lately, the last pair of earbuds I bought from the same place had to be replaced after about a week because the right earbud pooped out on me and kept cutting out every other second basically. 

Now? This left earbud. I was listening to music when it just stopped playing and did a weird little noise, and now it has a solid red light on it while the right is trying to pair to my phone. This is unbelievable. Can't even reset both the earbuds, and the app can't find the earbuds anymore, but the right earbud is playing music while the left is dead silent, yet somehow responds to commands like play/pause and lowering volume.  I've used them for less than an hour altogether...


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

Juturna said:


> To add on that: The left earbud just stopped working on these brand new earbuds. God this is making me steaming mad, I've been having some terrible luck with my earbuds lately, the last pair of earbuds I bought from the same place had to be replaced after about a week because the right earbud pooped out on me and kept cutting out every other second basically.
> 
> Now? This left earbud. I was listening to music when it just stopped playing and did a weird little noise, and now it has a solid red light on it while the right is trying to pair to my phone. This is unbelievable. Can't even reset both the earbuds, and the app can't find the earbuds anymore, but the right earbud is playing music while the left is dead silent, yet somehow responds to commands like play/pause and lowering volume.  I've used them for less than an hour altogether...


The important part is you gave them a chance? Sorry to hear that happened, that sounds pretty awful. I'm sure some of us can share horror stories of the Melomania Touch's (or Devialet's) early firmware days.

Might be worth taking a few minutes away from them, rebooting your phone, letting the buds charge, and come back when you feel a little less like sending them higher into space than Bezos got.


----------



## gwompki

miserybeforethemusic said:


> No data, bud, but it's on the horizon. If you're not having any issues with the current version, I don't think there's much to be wary of with the upcoming ones.
> 
> Did the EPro TW00 not work out?




I just ordered the EPro based on your recommendation.  I've been using the Azla Crystal for the past week on the MT and have been enjoying those.  Looking forward to trying these as well.

I would love to get the Final TWS but am hoping for a US seller/distributor soon.  Really love Final products.  Not opposed to ordering from overseas and do it often, but the immediate gratification has me spoiled these days I have to say 😬


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

gwompki said:


> I just ordered the EPro based on your recommendation.  I've been using the Azla Crystal for the past week on the MT and have been enjoying those.  Looking forward to trying these as well.
> 
> I would love to get the Final TWS but am hoping for a US seller/distributor soon.  Really love Final products.  Not opposed to ordering from overseas and do it often, but the immediate gratification has me spoiled these days I have to say 😬


Don't blame you. Even I hesitate to order from MTMT because I know there's a lead time. Think you'll be happy with the EPro and hope you see that it's not really a "better" thing between them. Just different kinds of fit.

Probably wouldn't worry about the Final, to be honest. Would be superfluous after having the other two. Matter of fact, I have more hotspot problems with the Final tips than I do with the other two combined.


----------



## TK33

gwompki said:


> I just ordered the EPro based on your recommendation.  I've been using the Azla Crystal for the past week on the MT and have been enjoying those.  Looking forward to trying these as well.
> 
> I would love to get the Final TWS but am hoping for a US seller/distributor soon.  Really love Final products.  Not opposed to ordering from overseas and do it often, but the immediate gratification has me spoiled these days I have to say 😬


Just got them today from MTMT after you posted the Final Type E TWS link last time. They shipped pretty quickly  Pretty happy with them on my PI7s.  Wanted to see if the shorter tips would help with the ear pain I have been having the last few months. They are very comfortable and seal pretty well so far. 

Thanks for pointing these out to me.


----------



## samandhi

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Levio-saaaah, levi-oooh-sa
> 
> The problem with a statement like that is...what aspects of SQ are more important to them? Haven't found a do-all TWS yet (tonally speaking), unfortunately.


Ok, no Harry Potter stuff in the TWS thread....


----------



## bladefd

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Don't blame you. Even I hesitate to order from MTMT because I know there's a lead time. Think you'll be happy with the EPro and hope you see that it's not really a "better" thing between them. Just different kinds of fit.
> 
> Probably wouldn't worry about the Final, to be honest. Would be superfluous after having the other two. Matter of fact, I have more hotspot problems with the Final tips than I do with the other two combined.


Did you have any issues with the stock tips on the MT to order Epro/final/crystal? Or you were just looking for something different?

I would be curious if any of them are washable in warm tap water without ruining their texture. I know you can usually wash silicone.


----------



## bronco1015

Juturna said:


> After just using the Sennheiser Momentum True Wireless for a couple of hours I'm pretty sure i'm gonna try to sell these.
> 
> Not sure if it's just my ears or what but first and foremost none of the included tips fit me, I usually wear a large tip or even medium if it's a bit bigger, here the Large tip is still too small, no seal whatsoever with a completely puzzling sound.
> Switched to some other tips that I have from other earbuds and they actually fit decently but they just don't sound very good to me? Like sure, I don't think they're bad but there's nothing about them that really strikes me as particularly impressive to me?
> ...


I have almost the opisite experience with some of your impressions, to the point that I wonder if sennheiser has retuned them.
The bass is tricky on these for sure. I had to use a combination of the app and a custom eq on my phone to get it where I wanted it. same with treble actually, I just needed a bit mor sparkle.
Then theres volume. I feel like a majority of posts I've seen include people wishing these had more volume, but I have always had plenty of headroom with the MTW2 . i never come close to maxing out the volume.


----------



## chinmie

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Major caveat that Flossy's preferred sound signature is pretty close to the opposite of what most people here favor (his words: maximum bass, maximum highs, minimum mids). His videos are good resources for the features and to get a visual, but I don't trust his ears at all, especially after having seen some of the EQ curves he builds.
> 
> Let me emphasize: I appreciate what he does for the community and I'm not trying to trash-talk him, but folks should understand what he's after in a set of TWS and how, more than likely, his sound preferences are incompatible (at best) with ours.



yes.. he seems to always listens to full volume, at least when he's doing videos..definitely not my preference


----------



## senorbroom

What are people's thoughts on the Redmi Buds 3 Pro (the global version of the Airdots 3 Pro): https://www.mi.com/global/redmi-buds-3-pro/overview The release price is only $40USD so they're incredibly cheap. Should I just bite the bullet and take a stab?

Pros:

Nice form factor
Multipoint connection
Wireless charging
IPX4
5-hour ANC, 6-hour ANC-off
Surprisingly good microphone quality
Cons:

No iOS app - can't adjust equaliser
Limited Android app (you only get full features using Xiaomi/Redmi phones)
Can only play/pause, skip forward and turn ANC on/off on the device
No on-device volume control
No on-device smart assitant
No apt-x (not an issue for me)
Unknowns:

Sound signature (presumably v-shaped)
One of the few reviews online:


----------



## gwompki

bladefd said:


> Did you have any issues with the stock tips on the MT to order Epro/final/crystal? Or you were just looking for something different?
> 
> I would be curious if any of them are washable in warm tap water without ruining their texture. I know you can usually wash silicone.


I didn't have any issues with stock tips.  I'd say the fit is a bit better with the Crystal tops for me just because they stick out less from my ears.  Comfort and sound were not drastically changed with the Crystal.  I need to go back and listen again with stock to do a comparison.  I would say @miserybeforethemusic impressions of the sound sig of the Crystal from a few pages back are  accurate.


----------



## Juturna

bronco1015 said:


> I have almost the opisite experience with some of your impressions, to the point that I wonder if sennheiser has retuned them.
> The bass is tricky on these for sure. I had to use a combination of the app and a custom eq on my phone to get it where I wanted it. same with treble actually, I just needed a bit mor sparkle.
> Then theres volume. I feel like a majority of posts I've seen include people wishing these had more volume, but I have always had plenty of headroom with the MTW2 . i never come close to maxing out the volume.


Are you on Android? That seems to make a difference in how loud they get. I’m on iOS. Which also means that doing any more specific EQ-ing won’t work at all. 
I might jump over to Android again later this year, because it’s time for me to upgrade my phone but I feel like Apple won’t introduce enough new stuff to warrant an upgrade from the phone I have based on the rumors at least. If they wanna go all in with lossless sound they should really let us EQ our sound a bit more and not just their mostly awful presets.


----------



## jsmiller58 (Jul 24, 2021)

mainguy said:


> I’ve been A/Bing my PI7s and Airpod Pros from hi and low res sources.
> 
> It’s actually annoying just how much better the PI7s sound, with all sources. They’re just ahead in every facet of the music.
> 
> ...


That combination might be end game for folks who like the B&W sound AND Apple AirPod Pro form factor AND use Apple phones…. But, there are those for whom one or more of the conditions might not apply…


----------



## Juturna

miserybeforethemusic said:


> The important part is you gave them a chance? Sorry to hear that happened, that sounds pretty awful. I'm sure some of us can share horror stories of the Melomania Touch's (or Devialet's) early firmware days.
> 
> Might be worth taking a few minutes away from them, rebooting your phone, letting the buds charge, and come back when you feel a little less like sending them higher into space than Bezos got.


100%, good that I did because at least it taught me that while Sennheisers are great in theory they're probably not just for my ears. I honestly don't know why I didn't enjoy the sound from them when I thought they had a sound signature that I would like. A bit V-shaped but not too aggressively, they're not supposed to be overly bright to my ears they were, and I think a big reason for that was with the tips. Like, I could've kept them (if they worked) and tried buying new tips for them, but i'm more at that stage where I want something I think sound good... sound even better. But if they sound bad out of the box, and I switch to some of the other tips I have (nothing special but tried foam and several different other eartips that I had lying around), and they still sound meh I just don't want to spend more money on something that may still not make me enjoy them. 

Also, it didn't work coming back to them unfortunately, the left earbud won't work, probably a software issue rather than a hardware one though.


----------



## krenzler

Juturna said:


> After just using the Sennheiser Momentum True Wireless for a couple of hours I'm pretty sure i'm gonna try to sell these.


Silly question perhaps but you did turn on the audiophile sound tuning in the app?`I think it's off by default (as it consumes more battery).


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

bladefd said:


> Did you have any issues with the stock tips on the MT to order Epro/final/crystal? Or you were just looking for something different?


The stock tips slip around a bit too much for my tastes unless my ears are completely clean (which I can't ensure when out and about). EPro and Azla just improve that situation in different ways. The same for Final, to an extent, but I prefer the comfort I get from the other two guys.


bladefd said:


> I would be curious if any of them are washable in warm tap water without ruining their texture. I know you can usually wash silicone.


They're all washable. I've run them all through my regimen of hot, soapy water in a mug. To my understanding, it's only foams that don't like being submerged, but Comply has a good video out on how to clean those.


----------



## Juturna

Also, went back to the store with the Momentum TW2s today and... yeah, now I have to wait something like 5 weeks to get them replaced or repaired depending on what they decide. It's ridiculous... So now I can't sell them like I planned to and get something else that I like.
I probably won't buy Sennheiser again for awhile, if I can try them out and I know that they run the latest specs and have all the features possibly, but i'm not getting a pair this late in the release cycle.

I feel like a lot of improvements have been made with true wireless earbuds this last year honestly, especially with Bluetooth 5.2 it's been super nice. Have had a more stable and faster connection with cheaper chinese brands than I have with any of the bigger brands on 5.0 or 5.1.


krenzler said:


> Silly question perhaps but you did turn on the audiophile sound tuning in the app?`I think it's off by default (as it consumes more battery).


I wrote that in the post you quoted, that it was in fact, turned on. Without it they sounded dreadful, with it they just sounded meh. It might be a question of just getting used to that sound signature and learning what things sound like with those earbuds but i've definitely had a lot of earbuds where I had a better impression of them from the get-go.


----------



## scubaphish

Juturna said:


> Also, went back to the store with the Momentum TW2s today and... yeah, now I have to wait something like 5 weeks to get them replaced or repaired depending on what they decide. It's ridiculous... So now I can't sell them like I planned to and get something else that I like.
> I probably won't buy Sennheiser again for awhile, if I can try them out and I know that they run the latest specs and have all the features possibly, but i'm not getting a pair this late in the release cycle.
> 
> I feel like a lot of improvements have been made with true wireless earbuds this last year honestly, especially with Bluetooth 5.2 it's been super nice. Have had a more stable and faster connection with cheaper chinese brands than I have with any of the bigger brands on 5.0 or 5.1.
> ...


I tried the MTW2 also, and I was very disappointed. Heard/read only positive things about them and I found their sound just lacking; no bass, highs and mids present but not exciting. I’ve described them as sterile. I’ve read “analytical” ascribed to earphones and while these aren’t “fun” buds, I don’t think they’re analytical either. I didn’t feel like they offered up ability to dig into the music I was hearing.
This was my second attempt at Sennheiser over the years; tried Momentum 2 cans few years back. Also found them lacking.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

scubaphish said:


> I tried the MTW2 also, and I was very disappointed. Heard/read only positive things about them and I found their sound just lacking; no bass, highs and mids present but not exciting. I’ve described them as sterile. I’ve read “analytical” ascribed to earphones and while these aren’t “fun” buds, I don’t think they’re analytical either. I didn’t feel like they offered up ability to dig into the music I was hearing.
> This was my second attempt at Sennheiser over the years; tried Momentum 2 cans few years back. Also found them lacking.


Going off my experience with the CX400BT, getting fit right is tricky, but I was able to achieve a proper seal. The issues you're having are fit-related.

The Senns seem to be part of that shell family that forms a seal around the ear canal rather than inside it (if that makes sense). Means your ideal fitment is shallower than you think, so it's tough for people to find that ideal spot. Ergonomically speaking, it's my biggest issue with that sort of shell design, but some guys get it right. The MT, to an extent, are supposed to fit this way. They just have the advantage of that fin.


----------



## scubaphish

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Going off my experience with the CX400BT, getting fit right is tricky, but I was able to achieve a proper seal. The issues you're having are fit-related.
> 
> The Senns seem to be part of that shell family that forms a seal around the ear canal rather than inside it (if that makes sense). Means your ideal fitment is shallower than you think, so it's tough for people to find that ideal spot. Ergonomically speaking, it's my biggest issue with that sort of shell design, but some guys get it right. The MT, to an extent, are supposed to fit this way. They just have the advantage of that fin.


Fair enough. Seemed like a good seal, suction feeling coming out; but I do tend to push them in as far as I can, so maybe not the ideal fit.


----------



## mainguy

jsmiller58 said:


> jsmiller58 said:
> 
> 
> > That combination might be end game for folks who like the B&W sound AND Apple AirPod Pro form factor AND use Apple phones…. But, there are those for whom one or more of the conditions might not apply…\\



Indeed, there’s always going to be niches.

But people are already sacrificing sound to use APP. I think if Apple could release an Airpod Pro with PI7/Noble level sound it would absolutely dominate the market. The reason being, tws is all about convenience. If you can get exemplary sound and Appl convenience then signature will probably only matter so much.

I hear you on the iPhone point though.


----------



## krenzler

I've owned the APP for a long time and got the MTW2 recently to try something else. The latter does have better detail separation and body to the sound but I don't think that APP is bad at all. I'm struggling a bit with seal too on MTW2 - especially on my right ear. Takes a bit of work to get right. Large tips for me. And I agree that without the audiophile sound tuning they sound pretty terrible so I wonder why Sennheiser even gives the option to turn that off. Coming from midcentric APP I found MTW2 a bit V-shaped so used the rather basic EQ to tone the bass down -1dB and the treble -2dB. To bring forth the mids a bit and tame any sibilance. That isn't my final judgement as I haven't listened enough yet. I've ordered the Comply tips specifically for MTW2 to see if I can get a better fit. I did look at XM4 before commiting but they were nowhere to be found in stock so. Still curious about the Geminis if/when they re-release with some minor tweaks.


----------



## krenzler

And I kind of agree (so far) that the MTW2 can seem a bit antiseptic in their presentation. The APP seem to boogie better with the music although they don't reveal as much. The Senns seem to give equal attention to everything in the mix to a point where my mind starts to drift a bit. If that makes any sense. A bit too clean perhaps.


----------



## Juturna

scubaphish said:


> I tried the MTW2 also, and I was very disappointed. Heard/read only positive things about them and I found their sound just lacking; no bass, highs and mids present but not exciting. I’ve described them as sterile. I’ve read “analytical” ascribed to earphones and while these aren’t “fun” buds, I don’t think they’re analytical either. I didn’t feel like they offered up ability to dig into the music I was hearing.
> This was my second attempt at Sennheiser over the years; tried Momentum 2 cans few years back. Also found them lacking.


Yes! This is 100% my experience too with the stock tips, but I can tell you pretty confidently that you can get the bass response a lot better if you have larger tips. 
But yes, sterile is the word i'd use, because they sound artificial, a bit lifeless. But not analytical because I felt like there was a bunch of details and texture that I couldn't really hear properly.  With the bigger tips I felt like the sound had way more warmth, but I still couldn't get over the fact that it felt likethe music just sounded... wrong? Like I could tell the tonality was just off. 


I actually tried the 1st gen Momentums, but at that point they still had good return policies so I just realized that they weren't worth the money for me pretty quickly and returned them... but now there's no such luck, especially since they broke day one too. But what I heard resembles this. I don't think my ears are ideal for the type of earbuds that are meant to sit too far out in the ear canal, I need a bit more deeper fit usually. Or maybe it's just a question of earbuds that are meant to have a more shallow fit never actually include eartips that are big enough for my ears.  

But at the same time I remember back in the day when I used to buy a bunch of wired consumer-oriented earbuds, used to mostly buy Sony and I loved their earbuds that were between $30-$120, they sounded so good with just a tiny bit of EQ, but then I bought the first Sennheiser Momentum In-Ear (wired) and I wasn't as thrilled. Think I just don't prefer the Sennheiser sound even if it on paper looks like i would?


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

Juturna said:


> Yes! This is 100% my experience too with the stock tips, but I can tell you pretty confidently that you can get the bass response a lot better if you have larger tips.
> But yes, sterile is the word i'd use, because they sound artificial, a bit lifeless. But not analytical because I felt like there was a bunch of details and texture that I couldn't really hear properly.  With the bigger tips I felt like the sound had way more warmth, but I still couldn't get over the fact that it felt likethe music just sounded... wrong? Like I could tell the tonality was just off.
> 
> 
> ...


Nah, it's not even the traditional Sennheiser house sound. It's an interesting interpretation on what regions in the midrange you can fudge with and produce headphone-like HRTF. When the CX400's fit is right, staging is awesome for a TWS. It's just very mid (especially lower mid) focused and I think that's what you're hearing. That emphasis is probably coming across as artificial to you, but stick with stuff that is more dialogue-focused and I think you'll hear a little more of what makes them useful.

I just don't think it's worth the hassle on account of that finicky fit. I'll think I have a good, comfortable seal and find out 20 minutes later there's a gnarly hotspot somewhere on one ear. I don't like to readjust, so it gets points docked.


----------



## bladefd

miserybeforethemusic said:


> The stock tips slip around a bit too much for my tastes unless my ears are completely clean (which I can't ensure when out and about). EPro and Azla just improve that situation in different ways. The same for Final, to an extent, but I prefer the comfort I get from the other two guys.
> 
> They're all washable. I've run them all through my regimen of hot, soapy water in a mug. To my understanding, it's only foams that don't like being submerged, but Comply has a good video out on how to clean those.


Alright cool! I'm probably going to try the epro since it's cheapest of the 3.

You got these, right? https://www.amazon.com/Horn-Shaped-Patented-Replacement-Silicone-Earphones/dp/B08LPW5DPN 

I just have to figure out size. I use large stock tips for MT, but I use medium for all other earbuds. I will probably Google up the dimensions for the epro to double check later when I get to my computer.


----------



## jasonb

So does anyone know why Best Buy isn't stocking the WF-1000XM4 in their stores? They are on Best Buy.com, but no stores seem to stock them. I kind of want to try them.


----------



## davidcotton

jasonb said:


> So does anyone know why Best Buy isn't stocking the WF-1000XM4 in their stores? They are on Best Buy.com, but no stores seem to stock them. I kind of want to try them.


Stock availability issues?  Keep going in and out of stock on amazon.


----------



## jasonb

davidcotton said:


> Stock availability issues?  Keep going in and out of stock on amazon.


I've looked quite a few times and the Best buy's in my area have never had them from what I can see.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

jasonb said:


> I've looked quite a few times and the Best buy's in my area have never had them from what I can see.


People just aren't really going into stores as much as they are buying online, though. Especially with the thread of COVID closing stuff again, I don't think B&Ms are trying to keep the same rotating stock they used to. It's going to look a little more barren out there.


----------



## assassin10000

jasonb said:


> I've looked quite a few times and the Best buy's in my area have never had them from what I can see.


3 in stock at best buy not too far from me.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic (Jul 24, 2021)

Looks like there's an update for the Falcon Pro (v4.0), folks. I'm excited.

Change log said the reason for updates were "Android stability." We can hope.


----------



## Devodonaldson

PeteSTRADAMUS said:


> No iPhone here. I have the Galaxy z fold 2. I purchased the Nobles. They should get here tomorrow or Monday.


I have a z fold 2, I own falcon pro and xm4. Falcon pro has more detailed treble and more midbass thump. Xm4 has deeper sub bass oomph, and better cohesive presentation.  As a note xm4 has less bass if you turn off noise canceling or ambient mode. It still works on single iem use, so you want either one of those active to get the most low end hit. I am first liked the sparkle of falcon pro, and I do, but xm4 paints a better overall picture and the falcon pro feels more like separate photos stitched together


----------



## bronco1015

Juturna said:


> Are you on Android? That seems to make a difference in how loud they get. I’m on iOS. Which also means that doing any more specific EQ-ing won’t work at all.
> I might jump over to Android again later this year, because it’s time for me to upgrade my phone but I feel like Apple won’t introduce enough new stuff to warrant an upgrade from the phone I have based on the rumors at least. If they wanna go all in with lossless sound they should really let us EQ our sound a bit more and not just their mostly awful presets.


Yes Android here. i agree on eq for IOS, that just seems like the next step they need to take now that they've introduced all these audio features. but Sennheiser could also put a better eq in the app, I feel like 5 band should be the minimum for any app.


----------



## mainguy (Jul 25, 2021)

krenzler said:


> I've owned the APP for a long time and got the MTW2 recently to try something else. The latter does have better detail separation and body to the sound but I don't think that APP is bad at all. I'm struggling a bit with seal too on MTW2 - especially on my right ear. Takes a bit of work to get right. Large tips for me. And I agree that without the audiophile sound tuning they sound pretty terrible so I wonder why Sennheiser even gives the option to turn that off. Coming from midcentric APP I found MTW2 a bit V-shaped so used the rather basic EQ to tone the bass down -1dB and the treble -2dB. To bring forth the mids a bit and tame any sibilance. That isn't my final judgement as I haven't listened enough yet. I've ordered the Comply tips specifically for MTW2 to see if I can get a better fit. I did look at XM4 before commiting but they were nowhere to be found in stock so. Still curious about the Geminis if/when they re-release with some minor tweaks.


That’s the thing, i got the MTW2 too from APP, and like you didn’t feel the SQ difference to be all that much. But the fit, design and usability Of the APP was so much better i reverted right back. Most tws to my ears just don’t warrant giving up the convenience, was true for the mw07+ too, only the PI7 changed that for me and I hear the Nobles for others.


----------



## PeteSTRADAMUS

Does anyone have any eq graphs they would like to share for the Falcon pro via pm? I don't want to clog up the thread with this stuff. I did get the Falcon pro today. It's pretty cool so-far.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

PeteSTRADAMUS said:


> Does anyone have any eq graphs they would like to share for the Falcon pro via pm? I don't want to clog up the thread with this stuff. I did get the Falcon pro today. It's pretty cool so-far.


I honestly run mine flat. At first, you might have to drop the 2-4k region a bit if things are too in your face, but I don't make any EQ adjustments at this point.


----------



## PeteSTRADAMUS

miserybeforethemusic said:


> I honestly run mine flat. At first, you might have to drop the 2-4k region a bit if things are too in your face, but I don't make any EQ adjustments at this point.


I dropped everything to negative db. I am not used to eq'ing anything. I just always liked to listen as is. I'm just so indecisive. I keep screwing with the settings. Lol


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

PeteSTRADAMUS said:


> I dropped everything to negative db. I am not used to eq'ing anything. I just always liked to listen as is. I'm just so indecisive. I keep screwing with the settings. Lol


If the drivers are taking it, I say why not? If it can make it safely through this album, I think you're good 



Firmware's up to date and everything, right? I think the whole package is a lot more stable on v4.0. Don't remember ever getting a v3.0 update push, but was on 2.0 previously.


----------



## PeteSTRADAMUS

miserybeforethemusic said:


> If the drivers are taking it, I say why not? If it can make it safely through this album, I think you're good
> 
> 
> 
> Firmware's up to date and everything, right? I think the whole package is a lot more stable on v4.0. Don't remember ever getting a v3.0 update push, but was on 2.0 previously.



I look into all of this tomorrow. Have to wake up for work super early. Blows. Lol. I never got any reminders to update the app. Hmmm.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

PeteSTRADAMUS said:


> I look into all of this tomorrow. Have to wake up for work super early. Blows. Lol. I never got any reminders to update the app. Hmmm.


Nothing popped up for me, either. I had to go to the firmware screen and check on my own and the request for update finally popped up. Sleep it off. You'll have playtime tomorrow.


----------



## stormwrx

PeteSTRADAMUS said:


> Does anyone have any eq graphs they would like to share for the Falcon pro via pm? I don't want to clog up the thread with this stuff. I did get the Falcon pro today. It's pretty cool so-far.


Here’s mine:


----------



## stormwrx

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Looks like there's an update for the Falcon Pro (v4.0), folks. I'm excited.
> 
> Change log said the reason for updates were "Android stability." We can hope.


I’m not seeing the update on iOS yet. Maybe a phased rollout? I am still on version 2.0 for now. Looking forward to your impressions of the new version.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

stormwrx said:


> I’m not seeing the update on iOS yet. Maybe a phased rollout? I am still on version 2.0 for now. Looking forward to your impressions of the new version.


Well, I can immediately say it's more stable. Pair-up time when I remove the buds is about as long as it takes for me to get the bud into my ears anyway. I don't get random disconnects or lost pairings anymore. The app works more often than it used to. It's certainly not a perfect experience, but I think it's a step in the right direction. I can even leave aptX Adaptive on and not complain.


----------



## tiagopinto

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Major caveat that Flossy's preferred sound signature is pretty close to the opposite of what most people here favor (his words: maximum bass, maximum highs, minimum mids). His videos are good resources for the features and to get a visual, but I don't trust his ears at all, especially after having seen some of the EQ curves he builds.
> 
> Let me emphasize: I appreciate what he does for the community and I'm not trying to trash-talk him, but folks should understand what he's after in a set of TWS and how, more than likely, his sound preferences are incompatible (at best) with ours.



Very much agree. I myself have stated similar thoughts here.


----------



## mainguy

For those in the UK, amazon warehouse are doing a 30% off promo, and the PI7 are included.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/s?k=PI7&i=warehouse-deals&ref=nb_sb_noss_2

The used ones are usually just customer returns, they’re 315 without the deal but work out at 220 with the coupon! Great deal


----------



## PeteSTRADAMUS

So my first impressions with the Falcon pro at the gym. Blocks out noise to the point that i would not hear a nuke going off next to me. Sounds good still. And very comfy and the sweat is a non-factor. Satisfied so-far. I'll surely update this once they are broken in more.


----------



## X-Nemesis

Where are my fellow Canadians buying their eartips from?  Specifically the Azla Crystal's and the ePro TWS Series TW00?


----------



## CocaCola15 (Jul 25, 2021)

My wife is not into the headphone hobby. She has very tiny ear canals, so she's been using the Klipsch X10 for a long, long time, with the very small oval OEM tips. Not a bad pair of in-ears; they had an MSRP of $350 back in the day (they eventually were around $95 new when they were about to be discontinued, so I got two pair for her in like 2013.  They debuted in 2008).

Well, based on miserybeforethemusic's experience with the UE Fits, we gave it a shot. I did get the small custom tips first for $30, so the $169 sale price went to $199 (we could have asked for the smalls gratis when the mediums that come with the Fits failed, but I decided to just use the ones I bought separately. I may see if UE will refund the $30, but no matter).

Followed the Klipsch app video and miserybeforethemusic's advice on keeping relaxed, etc.). It worked to perfection! My wife actually went out on the streets with the Fits in her ears yesterday (she normally only used in-ears when traveling on planes, trains, buses etc.). So mission accomplished. Thanks to misery for that advice. Now I am annoyed I didn't grab a pair @$169 (the price is back up to $249). Doh! Anyway, a great outcome.


----------



## PeteSTRADAMUS (Jul 25, 2021)

So with the xelastec tips it lowered the bass a tad but opened up the rest of the sounds. Especially the stage and mids. And they are very comfy now. Like nothing is in my ears.


----------



## Juturna

mainguy said:


> For those in the UK, amazon warehouse are doing a 30% off promo, and the PI7 are included.
> 
> https://www.amazon.co.uk/s?k=PI7&i=warehouse-deals&ref=nb_sb_noss_2
> 
> The used ones are usually just customer returns, they’re 315 without the deal but work out at 220 with the coupon! Great deal


That’s a very good price, if only I hadn’t bought those defective Sennheisers I would probably nab a pair.


----------



## HaliHarry

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Major caveat that Flossy's preferred sound signature is pretty close to the opposite of what most people here favor (his words: maximum bass, maximum highs, minimum mids). His videos are good resources for the features and to get a visual, but I don't trust his ears at all, especially after having seen some of the EQ curves he builds.
> 
> Let me emphasize: I appreciate what he does for the community and I'm not trying to trash-talk him, but folks should understand what he's after in a set of TWS and how, more than likely, his sound preferences are incompatible (at best) with ours.


I don't really totally agree with your point. Maybe the way that Flossy reacts to the voice let us think that he is basshead. However, just look at his TW ranking. 
1. Pi7
2. MTW 2
3. MW08
4. XM4
5. AZ70
In this list, just Pi7 and XM4 have rich and thick bass. In addition, he appreciates AZ70 so much,  I got AZ70 and i can tell you that this pair absolutely are't made for basshead.


----------



## mainguy

Juturna said:


> That’s a very good price, if only I hadn’t bought those defective Sennheisers I would probably nab a pair.


Indeed it’s rather cheap, PI7 for Airpod Pro money. Im tempted to get some for my partner as a gift…


HaliHarry said:


> I don't really totally agree with your point. Maybe the way that Flossy reacts to the voice let us think that he is basshead. However, just look at his TW ranking.
> 1. Pi7
> 2. MTW 2
> 3. MW08
> ...


Also the MW08/MW07 strong point is bass, or weakness, if you dont like bass dominance and thin mids. He always ranked the senns above those despite having a much feebler bass…


----------



## samandhi

Some rumors to gnaw on for a bit: https://www.techradar.com/news/apple-airpods-3-release-date


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

HaliHarry said:


> I don't really totally agree with your point. Maybe the way that Flossy reacts to the voice let us think that he is basshead. However, just look at his TW ranking.
> 1. Pi7
> 2. MTW 2
> 3. MW08
> ...


I've mentioned before that he and I have different preferences. Nothing wrong with that and I owe it to him just as much as anybody owes it to me. The AZ70W is the oddball on the list, I'll agree with that, but it's on my list too. It's not just "closet audiophile" music they excel at, despite anything I have to say about 'em.

I'm not going to try to diminish someone else's opinion. As long as I've been in this hobby, opinions are darn near guaranteed to change, anyway. Just a question of scale.


----------



## Juturna

Did anybody in here get the Edifier Neobuds Pro? Except the person who ordered and then cancelled, obviously.
I'm curious as to whether they actually sound any good, besides the older bluetooth codec and lack of wireless charging they seem very solid for the money.


----------



## Tommy C

Feeling a bit dirty using a Monster product but these aren’t half bad for the price when on sale. Obviously big bass but not boomy at all, nice mids, and laid back highs with large soundstage. 
Ambient noise is superb, ANC hasn’t been tested.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

Tommy C said:


> Feeling a bit dirty using a Monster product but these aren’t half bad for the price when on sale. Obviously big bass but not boomy at all, nice mids, and laid back highs with large soundstage.
> Ambient noise is superb, ANC hasn’t been tested.


Makes me happy when even the consumer guys are starting to rethink bass response and come out with stuff like this. Good job, Monster.


----------



## Tommy C

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Makes me happy when even the consumer guys are starting to rethink bass response and come out with stuff like this. Good job, Monster.


Agreed. Honestly, I was pleasantly surprised. 
Bought them just out of curiosity. No app which sucks but there is a Monster app to equalize your playlist library on iOS devices. They are just fun to listen to really and have more than average clarity.  Jazz and live music sound really good with them.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

Tommy C said:


> Agreed. Honestly, I was pleasantly surprised.
> Bought them just out of curiosity. No app which sucks but there is a Monster app to equalize your playlist library on iOS devices. They are just fun to listen to really and have more than average clarity.  Jazz and live music sound really good with them.


Awesome, man. Glad you like them.

Stumbled across this today; not sure if it flew under the radar, but could be an alternative to the UTWS3, speaking purely in terms of price.

https://a.aliexpress.com/_mNqIH2F


----------



## Tommy C

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Awesome, man. Glad you like them.
> 
> Stumbled across this today; not sure if it flew under the radar, but could be an alternative to the UTWS3, speaking purely in terms of price.
> 
> https://a.aliexpress.com/_mNqIH2F


Interesting!
I’m still a heavy user of wired earphones at home but always wireless outdoors.
probably will end up with the Melomania Touch or 1+ or the ADV M5 based on your recommendation 😉


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

Tommy C said:


> Interesting!
> I’m still a heavy user of wired earphones at home but always wireless outdoors.
> probably will end up with the Melomania Touch or 1+ or the ADV M5 based on your recommendation 😉


I can help you narrow it down from there if you're interested. I'm similar to you, though I have really been digging that Qudelix 5K. Just enough power to get my earbuds to wake up a little bit, I can fish the cable under my shirt and clip the 5K to my waist, and I get headphone-like sound without losing my situational awareness. It's been a tough thing to switch away from, but I did really enjoy some Wheel on the Falcon Pros while working on the back patio this weekend.

Man, those NFPs isolate. At one point, the wife came outside and had to tap on my shoulder to get my attention. Screaming at the top of her lungs wasn't loud enough...


----------



## CJYYZ (Jul 26, 2021)

Hi, first time poster here. First off, I'd like to say thanks for the incredible amount of information everyone has provided in this thread. Your shared experience, time and effort are much appreciated.

I bought my first pair of TWS earbuds last month, the Lypertek Z7s. Initially I had some trouble getting a good seal, because the stock silicon tips are really flimsy and the memory foam didn't work for me. It seems like the buds stick out of my ears a lot and the tips are the only thing securing them in place.

The store I bought them from sent me some Final tips (not sure of the specific model), which seemed to help a lot. They seemed to be more robust and the LL size held things in place much better, although I still have to readjust them periodically.

The sound quality in these things are just incredible! After a little EQing, I was hearing new details in songs that I had been listening to for decades. The triple driver setup really disperses the various frequencies nicely. It was a love at first sound!

Unfortunately, the honeymoon ended and things went south pretty quickly... The left bass driver quit working and the right nozzle snapped off when changing tips. The store I bought them from has offered to replace them or have me try something else.

Back to the drawing board... I was really happy with the Z7s, but the fit was somewhat of an ongoing struggle. Should I get the Z7s again and continuing my search for the best fitting aftermarket tips? Or maybe a different brand/form factor would work better? I noticed a lot of people raving about the Melomania Touch... Can they compete with the sound of the Z7's triple drivers?

My primary concern is sound quality, I'm using Spotify on an iPhone X, so they would have to have a good AAC implementation (and EQ). I like lively bass, but not overblown, mid-crowding bass. Battery life is second priority. ANC and call quality are not a concern at all.

After pouring over hundreds of posts in this thread, I've compiled a short list of possible solutions as to what to try next. Can I please get some recommendations from you pros? Which earbuds/tips would you recommend for best SQ and fit?

*Earbuds*
Lypertek Pureplay Z7
Melomania Touch
Nuarl N6 Pro2
UE FITS
Technics AZ70W

*Tips*
Azla Sedna Earfit Crystal (TWS version)
Azla Xelastec
Final TWS
EPro TW00

Thanks!


----------



## bladefd (Jul 26, 2021)

CJYYZ said:


> Hi, first time poster here. First off, I'd like to say thanks for the incredible amount of information everyone has provided in this thread. Your shared experience, time and effort are much appreciated.
> 
> I bought my first pair of TWS earbuds last month, the Lypertek Z7s. Initially I had some trouble getting a good seal, because the stock silicon tips are really flimsy and the memory foam didn't work for me. It seems like the buds stick out of my ears a lot and the tips are the only thing securing them in place.
> 
> ...


I may be able to help you eliminate a  couple options (based on my experience anyways). 

I can speak towards the MT and AZ70 from personal experience. AZ70 I had fitting/comfort issues with, and folks have complained about battery leak issues. I would definitely recommend MT over the AZ70. AZ70 has better build and case, but MT is better for what you are looking for (great sound quality, spectacular battery life, good fitting), but the stock tips are a bit slippery. I am on the verge of ordering the epro tips, but after I get my replacement MT. Xelastec are very good, but people have had size problems with it & apparently it's very sticky in the ear (quite a few have said it picks up earwax so I am avoiding them).

Anyways, Gemini are the best of the lot, but by far the most expensive. If you have the budget for them, I think they outclass the rest. If you want to keep the cost down then I would highly recommend the MT.


----------



## jasonb (Jul 26, 2021)

The Melomania Touch's are bringing my ears so much enjoyment. I've had a thing for true wireless buds since shortly after the original Samsung Galaxy Buds came out. For me it's so freeing having sound like this in your ears and not being attached to anything with wires, even just for use in my living room at home. I'm excited for the future of Bluetooth and true wireless once things progress even further into higher quality codecs and better battery life and all that. LDAC is taking things in the right direction. Maybe my ears aren't as golden as some, but even these MT's with just aptx sounds pretty good to me.


----------



## adnhussn

After trying some 10+ TWS (and after some serious usability issues with the Falcon Pro, Moondrop Sparks, and Melomania Touch—though they all sound great), I decided to go with the Nuarl N10 Plus. I haven't seen a whole lot of discussion about them on here, but I'm very impressed by the detail and soundstage, especially for just over $150. ANC is not too shabby, though nowhere near the level of AirPods Pro or the WF-1000xm4; transparency mode is a bit quieter than I'd prefer but still works well. Multi-point is smooth and convenient. Very comfortable to wear for long periods and I get a great seal using the AZLA SednaEarFit tips and the silicone grip/cover that Nuarl provided (the wing tips hurt my ears after like 30 minutes). The main feature I'd prefer is a better in-app EQ because the N10 Connect app only provides two presets: Default and Clarity.


----------



## mainguy (Jul 26, 2021)

Some interesting figures for you guys

In 2020 the tws market grew 78% year on year, over 233 million units shipped compared to 120 million the year before. In 2021 we’re on track for over 300 million units (and about half of them are us head fiers probably abusing amazon return policy)

Apple absolutely dominated the market, with 31% share (for reference Samsung had 7%) Sony I’m not sure, hard to find the data on. Surely second, but certainly not anywhere near Apple.

This got me thinking, the market is exploding and is expected to continue to do so as tws reaches users iems didnt; and Apple aren’t foolish. I expect they’re putting some big money on the table given this product has paid dividends. Wonder if it’ll bear fruit from the airpods tree. Wireless Andromeda equivalent with ANC, auto pairing and $250 plz.


----------



## CJYYZ

bladefd said:


> I may be able to help you eliminate a  couple options (based on my experience anyways).
> 
> I can speak towards the MT and AZ70 from personal experience. AZ70 I had fitting/comfort issues with, and folks have complained about battery leak issues. I would definitely recommend MT over the AZ70. AZ70 has better build and case, but MT is better for what you are looking for (great sound quality, spectacular battery life, good fitting), but the stock tips are a bit slippery. I am on the verge of ordering the epro tips, but after I get my replacement MT. Xelastec are very good, but people have had size problems with it & apparently it's very sticky in the ear (quite a few have said it picks up earwax so I am avoiding them).
> 
> Anyways, Gemini are the best of the lot, but by far the most expensive. If you have the budget for them, I think they outclass the rest. If you want to keep the cost down then I would highly recommend the MT.


Thanks for the info! The MT was second on my list because so many people on the thread recommend them for SQ and they look like the outer ear would offer some support for the buds, not just the ear canal.

Since you mentioned the Gemini were the most expensive, I double checked the price and realized they are out of my price range so I removed them from my list. Thanks for the reality check!

So far it looks like it's either going to be the Z7s or the MT. I heard that Xelastec tips deform over time, but the Crystals, not so much. But I'm desperate to get a good seal so if someone suggested drywall anchors I'd give it a shot. Let me know which tips you settle on.


----------



## potix

HaliHarry said:


> I don't really totally agree with your point. Maybe the way that Flossy reacts to the voice let us think that he is basshead. However, just look at his TW ranking.
> 1. Pi7
> 2. MTW 2
> 3. MW08
> ...


I've been testing PI7, XM4 and AZ70 and these three are have the best bass among those I owned. It's not a matter of tuning. It's clear when you try to eq them.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

CJYYZ said:


> Thanks for the info! The MT was second on my list because so many people on the thread recommend them for SQ and they look like the outer ear would offer some support for the buds, not just the ear canal.
> 
> Since you mentioned the Gemini were the most expensive, I double checked the price and realized they are out of my price range so I removed them from my list. Thanks for the reality check!
> 
> So far it looks like it's either going to be the Z7s or the MT. I heard that Xelastec tips deform over time, but the Crystals, not so much. But I'm desperate to get a good seal so if someone suggested drywall anchors I'd give it a shot. Let me know which tips you settle on.


Studs are more secure, anyway. The Crystal should help. If not those, then the TW00. It's kind of a one-two solution for me regarding fit at this point. A few sets prefer the kind of shroud that's on the ADV M5, but I can usually get a fit with most sets using the two I mentioned.

My recommendation is really going to come down to what you think is more important. The MT will more likely have a sound signature you can immediately appreciate. The FITS and Technics both take sitting time; FITS for their neutrality, Technics for the treble emphasis. Get last that and feed them the right content, though, and both will definitely impress. Pass on the Technics if you plan to do any sort of physical activity with them. You won't want to drop one of these buds.


----------



## potix (Jul 26, 2021)

mainguy said:


> Some interesting figures for you guys
> 
> In 2020 the tws market grew 78% year on year, over 233 million units shipped compared to 120 million the year before. In 2021 we’re on track for over 300 million units (and about half of them are us head fiers probably abusing amazon return policy)
> 
> ...


With a low budget I wouldn't buy anything pricey at the moment. Hi-res codecs are a game changer but bt connection is the weak point.


----------



## mainguy

potix said:


> With a low budget I wouldn't buy anything at the moment. Hi-res codecs are a game changer but bt connection is the weak point.


I dont think the connection is the weak point, up to a limit. The Pi7 and Nobles actually sound really good, wired or not, so they prove that even within a wireless limitation you can produce an iem that sounds great. The other sub par tws are not a sign of codecs but likely the acoustic design. Thats why its possible that Apple, who now have more money to dump into iems than likely sennheiser & campfire audio combined, owing to their absurd airpod profits, could make something special.


----------



## potix

mainguy said:


> I dont think the connection is the weak point, up to a limit. The Pi7 and Nobles actually sound really good, wired or not, so they prove that even within a wireless limitation you can produce an iem that sounds great. The other sub par tws are not a sign of codecs but likely the acoustic design. Thats why its possible that Apple, who now have more money to dump into iems than likely sennheiser & campfire audio combined, owing to their absurd airpod profits, could make something special.


I've been in this (hi-fi) hobby enough to say that companies' money doesn't change much when audio quality is the main point. Apple and Sony will put their efforts on features, others will aim for audio quality.
Bluetooth actually is a bottleneck, I've been having connection issues with both PI7 and XM4 (PI7 mostly).


----------



## mainguy

potix said:


> I've been in this (hi-fi) hobby enough to say that companies' money doesn't change much when audio quality is the main point. Apple and Sony will put their efforts on features, others will aim for audio quality.
> Bluetooth actually is a bottleneck, I've been having connection issues with both PI7 and XM4 (PI7 mostly).


Oh right you mean in the reliability sense, for sure.

And I hear you on the money front. Im just hoping tbh, to be fair I dont think there has ever been a point in history when a company has this much profit from iems so maybe the extra money will help. lol


----------



## scubaphish (Jul 27, 2021)

potix said:


> I've been in this (hi-fi) hobby enough to say that companies' money doesn't change much when audio quality is the main point. Apple and Sony will put their efforts on features, others will aim for audio quality.
> Bluetooth actually is a bottleneck, I've been having connection issues with both PI7 and XM4 (PI7 mostly).


Yeah, now that I’m using the BT-W3, and in turn AptX and HD, the Bluetooth stutters on the PI7 are annoying. I found/find direct AAC more reliable; and the hiccups are less painful. Trying to ensure I don’t block the dongle…it doesn’t like that much.

I wonder if it's the PI7 or the Creative that doesn't like the portability/blocking line of sight


----------



## mainguy

scubaphish said:


> Yeah, now that I’m using the BT-W3, and in turn AptX and HD, the Bluetooth stutters on the PI7 are horrendous. I found/find direct AAC more reliable; and the hiccups are less painful. Trying to ensure I don’t block the dongle…it doesn’t like that much.


oh lord that sounds irritating af. At this point about as inconvenient as wired iems, and you can get some very good ones for £400 too…


----------



## scubaphish (Jul 26, 2021)

mainguy said:


> oh lord that sounds irritating af. At this point about as inconvenient as wired iems, and you can get some very good ones for £400 too…


Ok, had a bad few minutes there. It’s not so terrible most of the time. When it happens it’s annoying. I just won’t walk as far away.
I think they sound amazing almost all the time. I shouldn’t have said “horrendous “. I’m surprised by the hiccups but the sound on these is remarkable.


----------



## CJYYZ

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Studs are more secure, anyway. The Crystal should help. If not those, then the TW00. It's kind of a one-two solution for me regarding fit at this point. A few sets prefer the kind of shroud that's on the ADV M5, but I can usually get a fit with most sets using the two I mentioned.
> 
> My recommendation is really going to come down to what you think is more important. The MT will more likely have a sound signature you can immediately appreciate. The FITS and Technics both take sitting time; FITS for their neutrality, Technics for the treble emphasis. Get last that and feed them the right content, though, and both will definitely impress. Pass on the Technics if you plan to do any sort of physical activity with them. You won't want to drop one of these buds.


Awesome, thanks for the (ahem) tips. I'll start checking prices for the Crystal and the TW00. I'm in Canada, so they may be a little tough to source. I can be a bit of a klutz at times, so I may be shying away from the Technics. The FITS are interesting, but the MTs are gaining ground on the Z7s. My final choice is also dependant upon which brands the store I bought the Z7s carry, since that's where I'll be doing the exchange.


----------



## bronco1015

some interesting announcements today from LG, including one model with a case that doubles as a transmitter, like the case of the PI7.
ANC on the previous FN7 was surprisingly good, wonder if there are further improvements to the ANC on these models.
https://www.lgnewsroom.com/2021/07/...ver-enhanced-performance-greater-convenience/


----------



## Dcell7

mainguy said:


> This got me thinking, the market is exploding and is expected to continue to do so as tws reaches users iems didnt; and Apple aren’t foolish. I expect they’re putting some big money on the table given this product has paid dividends. Wonder if it’ll bear fruit from the airpods tree. Wireless Andromeda equivalent with ANC, auto pairing and $250 plz.


Apple will always do things their own way. The Airpods name is a strong marketing device and based on name alone they could sell tons of it. Sound quality or tuning will never be their main priority. I am not saying Airpods sound good or bad.

Apple gambles on the whole user experience with the Airpods for those within the Apple ecosystem. Things like easy switching between Apple devices, spatial audio etc.


----------



## mainguy

Dcell7 said:


> Apple will always do things their own way. The Airpods name is a strong marketing device and based on name alone they could sell tons of it. Sound quality or tuning will never be their main priority. I am not saying Airpods sound good or bad.
> 
> Apple gambles on the whole user experience with the Airpods for those within the Apple ecosystem. Things like easy switching between Apple devices, spatial audio etc.


I think always is a strong word for a 2nd gen product. They could do anything, especially after recently hiring a slew of Bowers & Wilkins senior engineers (which they have).


----------



## Ultrainferno

erockg said:


> Put the Lypertek Pureplay Z7's on your list too.  They are very very good.  Highly recommend.



Agreed! The Lypertek PurePlay Z7 delivers audiophile quality for on the go. Find out why we're recommending this TWS IEM, now on Headfonia!

https://www.headfonia.com/lypertek-pureplay-z7-review/


----------



## krenzler

Nothing ear (1) reveal goes live in 5 hours. Could end up just being design over anything else.


----------



## BigZ12

XM4, new firmware update. (1.2.6)
Sounds like they are tuned a little different? A bit brighter, and not that muddy? Can listen to them without eq'ing now.

Also, still think the Senn' MTW2 sound better after the latest update. Especially the mids/vocals.

Again, just my imagination? What's your experience?


----------



## DigDub

BigZ12 said:


> XM4, new firmware update. (1.2.6)
> Sounds like they are tuned a little different? A bit brighter, and not that muddy? Can listen to them without eq'ing now.
> 
> Also, still think the Senn' MTW2 sound better after the latest update. Especially the mids/vocals.
> ...


I also do feel they sound a tiny bit brighter.


----------



## senorbroom (Jul 27, 2021)

I just snagged a second-hand pair of Sennheiser CX for the equivalent of $60USD. They were only released week so they're in great condition. Just trying them out now - boosted bass is helping the kick drums and toms stick out nicely. I'm finding the highs a little splashy but that could just be me adjusting to them. Interestingly, the model number is CX200BT so they're not a direct replacement for the CX400BT model number wise. Perhaps Sennheiser are leaving the door open to for a mid-range model?

These should make a good pair of gym earphones until I decide on a more premium ANC pair.


----------



## clerkpalmer

Not entirely sure what M&D is thinking here:

https://www.masterdynamic.com/products/mw08-sport-active-noise-cancelling-true-wireless-earphones

Raising the price is a bold move. They look cool enough but I don’t see these selling at that price.


----------



## scubaphish (Jul 27, 2021)

clerkpalmer said:


> Not entirely sure what M&D is thinking here:
> 
> https://www.masterdynamic.com/products/mw08-sport-active-noise-cancelling-true-wireless-earphones
> 
> Raising the price is a bold move. They look cool enough but I don’t see these selling at that price.


good point....do the "sport" model add that much to the regular MW08 that justify $50 price delta?
Sappire instead of ceramic housing, and kevlar case, looks like


----------



## krenzler

So regarding Nothing it wasn't clear (pun intended) if the tips attach to a stem or magnetically a la APP? And whether the EQ options are all fixed or you can manually adjust your own. Nice design but at the $99 price point I would still not expect it to compete with the more expensive top TWS out there. And apart from the transparent design I don't see it bringing anything "new" to the table although it is a nice feature set at that price point.


----------



## SharkSkin

krenzler said:


> So regarding Nothing it wasn't clear (pun intended) if the tips attach to a stem or magnetically a la APP? And whether the EQ options are all fixed or you can manually adjust your own. Nice design but at the $99 price point I would still not expect it to compete with the more expensive top TWS out there. And apart from the transparent design I don't see it bringing anything "new" to the table although it is a nice feature set at that price point.


In so far as the EQ, it does have customizable options. From their page:


> Customise equalizers, gestures, Find My Earbud, and more with the ear (1) app, available on iOS and Android.


----------



## cresny

krenzler said:


> So regarding Nothing it wasn't clear (pun intended) if the tips attach to a stem or magnetically a la APP? And whether the EQ options are all fixed or you can manually adjust your own. Nice design but at the $99 price point I would still not expect it to compete with the more expensive top TWS out there. And apart from the transparent design I don't see it bringing anything "new" to the table although it is a nice feature set at that price point.


Fwiw the driver is a rather huge 11.6mm. But then it's tuned by a bunch of teenagers...


----------



## krenzler

Tuned for ABBA, A-ha, Roxette and Ace of Base?


----------



## krenzler

SharkSkin said:


> In so far as the EQ, it does have customizable options. From their page:



Jumping to 38:58 in the presentation video shows this. But the app is still in Beta and not final. But customizable options could mean just various presets to chose from.


----------



## CJYYZ

Ultrainferno said:


> Agreed! The Lypertek PurePlay Z7 delivers audiophile quality for on the go. Find out why we're recommending this TWS IEM, now on Headfonia!
> 
> https://www.headfonia.com/lypertek-pureplay-z7-review/


Great review! One thing worth mentioning is that the buttons also control volume. Apparently that's no longer a given for new TWS buds these days.


----------



## mainguy

scubaphish said:


> good point....do the "sport" model add that much to the regular MW08 that justify $50 price delta?
> Sappire instead of ceramic housing, and kevlar case, looks like


They’re appealing to the upper middle class who value form and design For sure, always have with their headphones too. Thats just too much for sporting earbuds, their MW07 GO were a much better attempt, nice pricepoint and sound.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

mainguy said:


> I think always is a strong word for a 2nd gen product. They could do anything, especially after recently hiring a slew of Bowers & Wilkins senior engineers (which they have).


I'm predicting Apple will do the usual Apple thing: put out a product that makes no sense and convince you why you not only need to buy it, but it should have been a staple in your house yesterday.

I miss Steve.


Ultrainferno said:


> Agreed! The Lypertek PurePlay Z7 delivers audiophile quality for on the go. Find out why we're recommending this TWS IEM, now on Headfonia!
> 
> https://www.headfonia.com/lypertek-pureplay-z7-review/


Great to see you here! Hope you stick around. Nice to have a reviewer or few for perspective on things. You're more than welcome to join in.


scubaphish said:


> good point....do the "sport" model add that much to the regular MW08 that justify $50 price delta?
> Sappire instead of ceramic housing, and kevlar case, looks like


M&D has been doing the design firm thing for a while now. Most likely just an excuse to put a couple new shells out and maybe one extra feature.


----------



## rhsauer

scubaphish said:


> good point....do the "sport" model add that much to the regular MW08 that justify $50 price delta?
> Sappire instead of ceramic housing, and kevlar case, looks like


Seems to also add (a) wireless charging (which the metal case didn't permit), and (b) two pairs of foam tips (which I'd love to get for my MW08s -- but they aren't yet listed on their "accessories" page).


----------



## erockg

DigDub said:


> I also do feel they sound a tiny bit brighter.


Seemingly brighter on my end too.  They also fixed a whoosh sound I'd hear if I had DSEE Extreme on auto and paused/played.  Happy camper here!


----------



## Tommy C (Jul 27, 2021)

clerkpalmer said:


> Not entirely sure what M&D is thinking here:
> 
> https://www.masterdynamic.com/products/mw08-sport-active-noise-cancelling-true-wireless-earphones
> 
> Raising the price is a bold move. They look cool enough but I don’t see these selling at that price.


Do they even have their own app already?
At this price it's a hard pass for me.

EDIT: OK, so they added wireless charging and two pairs of foam tips - Yay.  Still looks like a money grab to me and they won't move too many of them for the new retail price.


----------



## mainguy

Tommy C said:


> Do they even have their own app already?
> At this price it's a hard pass for me.
> 
> EDIT: OK, so they added wireless charging and two pairs of foam tips - Yay.  Still looks like a money grab to me and they won't move too many of them for the new retail price.


Could be an act of desperation.

I was reading the glassdoor for M&D and the employees were saying the company is likely finished due to some poor decisions. I was intruiged after listening to their mW65 which are hilariously bad for the price, wasn’t surprised to find things were a mess.


----------



## jasonb

So my local Best Buy actually shows them having the WF1000XM4 in stock now. I might try them out, since I'm already going to be in the area of this store. I've always found Best Buy's returns to be easy if I end up not liking them. I just hope I can get them to sound how I'd want them with the Sony headphones app EQ. I'd rather not have to use wavelet.


----------



## Tommy C

mainguy said:


> Could be an act of desperation.
> 
> I was reading the glassdoor for M&D and the employees were saying the company is likely finished due to some poor decisions. I was intruiged after listening to their mW65 which are hilariously bad for the price, wasn’t surprised to find things were a mess.


Sad to hear as I don’t wish any company to go down under. 
I demoed an older model a couple of years ago and it was ridiculously bad with very noticeable floor noise to the point it was almost deemed unusable. Funny enough it was more than one pair. Not sure how it even passed QA.


----------



## jasonb (Jul 27, 2021)

erockg said:


> Seemingly brighter on my end too.  They also fixed a whoosh sound I'd hear if I had DSEE Extreme on auto and paused/played.  Happy camper here!


So 3 different people are saying they now sound brighter? That's good news to me. Hopefully I'll have a pair tonight.

Got 'em. So far with just minor EQ the results are good. It's updating firmware right now. So we'll see if I hear a difference or not after.

Well, I didn't notice any obvious difference after the update, but that could be since I hadn't gotten used to them yet.

This is my EQ so far:


----------



## Danny23

Anyone going to try the nothing ear (1)?


----------



## mainguy

Tommy C said:


> Sad to hear as I don’t wish any company to go down under.
> I demoed an older model a couple of years ago and it was ridiculously bad with very noticeable floor noise to the point it was almost deemed unusable. Funny enough it was more than one pair. Not sure how it even passed QA.


I agree hopefully they dont. If anything their design and build is the best on the market, the mh40/mw65 are gorgeous.

Apparently the employees say theres serious authority/control issues. Basically the CEO is causing major issues.


----------



## blomman77

Got my Melomania touch today and been playing around with it. So far great fit,slick App and really nice sounding to!
One thing i wonder about,is the FW update. The first thing i thought of doing was a FW update,but the App says i'm  "up to date",which is fine i guess,
but on the Cambridge homepage it says V 1.4.2 is the latest FW.  In my App it says "Firmware version L 2.1.0 R 2.1.0" and
"App version 1.3.0" ?  Do i have a newer FW version or is something not right?  What do you MT owners think of this?


----------



## Spindulo

Hi All,
I recently bought the MT. I really love the design and their balanced sound. However, I found some problems that forced me to return them. 
The quality of calls was awful. With other people around was impossible for the other to hear me. I found them working properly only in a silent environment and without wind. The fit was comfortable at the beginning, after few hours it was not. One of them was not charging properly in the case unless you adjust it properly. The connection was disturbed many times if I was keeping my phone in my pocket. I found the voice that updates you on the status of the earbuds very annoying. 
I hope in the next revision they will solve most of the problems above.


----------



## stacey (Jul 28, 2021)

Danny23 said:


> Anyone going to try the nothing ear (1)?


I might. For $99 it’s worth a gamble. Otherwise I’ll just get some b stock LCD i4 with the Bluetooth Cipher cable.


----------



## erockg

Nuratrue and Nurabuds released today: https://www.nuraphone.com


----------



## BobJS (Jul 28, 2021)

Where are you guys buying the MT from?  I can't find it online anywhere.  Cambridge Audio's site has a nice description and a shopping cart in the upper right, but I couldn't find a "Buy" button to click.

Edit:  Found the "Buy" button but it doesn't seem to work.


----------



## EMINENT (Jul 28, 2021)

erockg said:


> Nuratrue and Nurabuds released today: https://www.nuraphone.com


First reviews are out.

Plus, they also have nurabuds too. Sadly both are only BT 5.0, Apt X.


----------



## erockg

EMINENT said:


> First reviews are out.
> 
> Plus, they also have nurabuds too. Sadly both are only BT 5.0, Apt X.


Yep.  It looks like the Nurabuds are subscription and lack personalized sound.  

I ordered the Nuratrue.  Fingers crossed.  Nura's personalized sound along with their ANC is great IMO.  Other specs are fine for my use.


----------



## Caipirina

Talk about weird form factor …


----------



## tiagopinto (Jul 28, 2021)

clerkpalmer said:


> Not entirely sure what M&D is thinking here:
> 
> https://www.masterdynamic.com/products/mw08-sport-active-noise-cancelling-true-wireless-earphones
> 
> Raising the price is a bold move. They look cool enough but I don’t see these selling at that price.



Wow! These are definitely cool. I still love the blue. That case looks fine. But I must agree, a rise in price isn’t their wisest choice. I wish I could get to try them, though. I didn’t get the B&O e8 3.0 Rapha Edition because, although they were dead gorgeous to me, they cost 350€ and the sound quality wasn’t probably their best trait. I guess this also happens with these. And I can’t never justify that at their price point.

Edit: I just remembered the Pi7 (couldn’t stand a 3 hour battery, although the sound must be great) and the Gemini (which must have great sound also but had so many issues as the MT had at 3 times the price). Oh well...


----------



## blomman77

When i check Cambridge audio US i am able to "buy" the Melomania 1+ 
but not the Touch.
So the Touch is probably out of stock.
But mail them to be sure


BobJS said:


> Where are you guys buying the MT from?  I can't find it online anywhere.  Cambridge Audio's site has a nice description and a shopping cart in the upper right, but I couldn't find a "Buy" button to click.
> 
> Edit:  Found the "Buy" button but it doesn't seem to work.


----------



## Darkestred

Caipirina said:


> Talk about weird form factor …


There was a Russian (I believe) fellow at Canjam NYC in 2017 who had a prototype of a flat iem like this.  It was so odd and unique at the time.  This looks pretty cool but it doesnt look right from an iem standpoint.


----------



## jasonb

I'm liking the sound of the WF-1000XM4 so far. With Spinfit 360 tips, some slight EQ, and LDAC locked at the highest quality things sound pretty impressive. I kind of expected that I'd like the sound quality of my Melomania Touch's more, but these are just as enjoyable, or maybe even better. The XM4 can sound just as clear and detailed, just as punchy, and just as dynamic. In terms of comfort I'm not 100% happy there yet, but I'm hoping I'll either get used to it and it wont bother me anymore or maybe one of the 3 different tips I ordered from Amazon will somehow help. 

Also, for the people that have recommended that I try the Epro tips on my MT, those are one of the tips I ordered from Amazon. Also ordered the ridiculously expensive Spiral Dot++'s as well. 

This is the EQ I'm using on the XM4. No complaints of them sounding dark or too bass heavy with this little amount of EQ (surprising to me) and the Spinfit 360 tips.


----------



## erockg

Okay, as always, I took the plunge.  I loved the MW08 but sold mine because of fit, the case was a fingerprint magnet and didn't have wireless charging - something I rely on in this day and age.

Picked up the MW08 Sport.  Same sound but still listening.  The case is exactly what it should be.  Wireless charging, matte finish, zero fingerprints.  The buds have the sapphire finish and they too have zero fingerprints.  What I really love is the foam tips.  Similar to the black olives Shure makes.  Better than Comply IMO.  This is exactly what they should've always included.  The fit is soooooo much better in my ears now.

It's going to be a fun afternoon...


----------



## assassin10000

erockg said:


> What I really love is the foam tips.  Similar to the black olives Shure makes.  Better than Comply IMO.


Hmmm. Another set of foam tips I may need to aquire. The shure tips have long been a favorite of mine. Are these as soft as the olives?

Followed by some generic 'ball' type foams from AE.


----------



## erockg (Jul 28, 2021)

assassin10000 said:


> Hmmm. Another set of foam tips I may need to aquire. The shure tips have long been a favorite of mine. Are these as soft as the olives?
> 
> Followed by some generic 'ball' type foams from AE.


Yes, they're as soft, maybe a bit softer.  I'm diggin' them.


----------



## tinyman392

stacey said:


> I might. For $99 it’s worth a gamble. Otherwise I’ll just get some b stock LCD i4 with the Bluetooth Cipher cable.


I don’t own the LCD I4, but do own the iSine and the Cipher BT cable for that and wasn’t really impressed.  The Cipher BT cable kind of turned it into a dark mess which was very unfortunate.  The normal Cipher cable works great with it though.


----------



## CocaCola15

jasonb said:


> I'm liking the sound of the WF-1000XM4 so far. With Spinfit 360 tips, some slight EQ, and LDAC locked at the highest quality things sound pretty impressive. I kind of expected that I'd like the sound quality of my Melomania Touch's more, but these are just as enjoyable, or maybe even better. The XM4 can sound just as clear and detailed, just as punchy, and just as dynamic. In terms of comfort I'm not 100% happy there yet, but I'm hoping I'll either get used to it and it wont bother me anymore or maybe one of the 3 different tips I ordered from Amazon will somehow help.
> 
> Also, for the people that have recommended that I try the Epro tips on my MT, those are one of the tips I ordered from Amazon. Also ordered the ridiculously expensive Spiral Dot++'s as well.
> 
> This is the EQ I'm using on the XM4. No complaints of them sounding dark or too bass heavy with this little amount of EQ (surprising to me) and the Spinfit 360 tips.


I had the Sonys, nice. I own the MTs, nice too. Sonys $279, MTs $129. I kept the MTs.


----------



## jasonb

CocaCola15 said:


> I had the Sonys, nice. I own the MTs, nice too. Sonys $279, MTs $129. I kept the MTs.


I totally expected to not be happy with the sound of the XM4, but with just some minor EQ within the Sony app they sound just how I'd want them. I totally thought I'd be disappointed and would want to return them. The XM3 that I had prior needed more EQ than the Sony Headphones app could do, and required me to use Wavelet. Now I just need to get my ears used to them cause so far I'm not finding the comfort to be totally enjoyable for long periods of time.


----------



## CJYYZ

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Studs are more secure, anyway. The Crystal should help. If not those, then the TW00. It's kind of a one-two solution for me regarding fit at this point. A few sets prefer the kind of shroud that's on the ADV M5, but I can usually get a fit with most sets using the two I mentioned.
> 
> My recommendation is really going to come down to what you think is more important. The MT will more likely have a sound signature you can immediately appreciate. The FITS and Technics both take sitting time; FITS for their neutrality, Technics for the treble emphasis. Get last that and feed them the right content, though, and both will definitely impress. Pass on the Technics if you plan to do any sort of physical activity with them. You won't want to drop one of these buds.


The shop I bought the Z7s from doesn't carry the MTs, so I exchanged them for a new set of Z7s. This new set sounds WAY better! I had to actually remove a bit of bass with the EQ, which leads me to think the left bass driver in the original pair was blown from the start. The honeymoon is back on!

I'm going to try some Azra tips to see if I can improve the fit. Can anyone explain the differences/benefits between Crystal and XELASTEC tips?

Can advise if these are the correct Crystal tips for the Z7s? The inner shaft seems really short compared to the Final tips I'm using now.
https://www.amazon.ca/AZLA-SednaEarfit-Crystal-Replacement-Eartips/dp/B08TWG48DT/ref=sr_1_17_sspa?dchild=1&gclid=CjwKCAjwgISIBhBfEiwALE19SUqo7BLS5ybQ1y_jhEStZ8OKmUuR-H98T1fpapvxFtzdJmnLIQRc0xoCa3cQAvD_BwE&hvadid=506489259828&hvdev=c&hvlocphy=9000998&hvnetw=g&hvqmt=b&hvrand=18376846901589911855&hvtargid=kwd-1282522795101&hydadcr=14278_10127098&keywords=azla%2Bcrystal&qid=1627505276&sr=8-17-spons&spLa=ZW5jcnlwdGVkUXVhbGlmaWVyPUFRMkdZVzZLRUVQRjAmZW5jcnlwdGVkSWQ9QTA4OTUxOTMxTTNJOTJTN1dHTTFZJmVuY3J5cHRlZEFkSWQ9QTAwMTg2MjUxQUtFWUJYRUZOUUYwJndpZGdldE5hbWU9c3BfbXRmJmFjdGlvbj1jbGlja1JlZGlyZWN0JmRvTm90TG9nQ2xpY2s9dHJ1ZQ&th=1

I found two sets of XELASTECs on amazon, one with a shorter inner shaft and one with a longer one. Can anyone tell me which would be best for the Z7s?

Shorter: https://www.amazon.ca/AZLA-SednaEar...9Y2xpY2tSZWRpcmVjdCZkb05vdExvZ0NsaWNrPXRydWU=

Longer: https://www.amazon.ca/AZLA-SednaEarfit-XELASTEC-Pairs-Size/dp/B08BRGHYVN/ref=sr_1_4_sspa?dchild=1&gclid=CjwKCAjwgISIBhBfEiwALE19SUqo7BLS5ybQ1y_jhEStZ8OKmUuR-H98T1fpapvxFtzdJmnLIQRc0xoCa3cQAvD_BwE&hvadid=506489259828&hvdev=c&hvlocphy=9000998&hvnetw=g&hvqmt=b&hvrand=18376846901589911855&hvtargid=kwd-1282522795101&hydadcr=14278_10127098&keywords=azla%2Bcrystal&qid=1627505935&sr=8-4-spons&spLa=ZW5jcnlwdGVkUXVhbGlmaWVyPUFUUFJUNkZCWEVETEUmZW5jcnlwdGVkSWQ9QTA2ODM3ODUzTVI3N1YyMjRRNVFCJmVuY3J5cHRlZEFkSWQ9QTAwMTkxNDkxRkhXOU5EVE1OOTlKJndpZGdldE5hbWU9c3BfYXRmJmFjdGlvbj1jbGlja1JlZGlyZWN0JmRvTm90TG9nQ2xpY2s9dHJ1ZQ&th=1

Thanks!


----------



## CocaCola15

jasonb said:


> I totally expected to not be happy with the sound of the XM4, but with just some minor EQ within the Sony app they sound just how I'd want them. I totally thought I'd be disappointed and would want to return them. The XM3 that I had prior needed more EQ than the Sony Headphones app could do, and required me to use Wavelet. Now I just need to get my ears used to them cause so far I'm not finding the comfort to be totally enjoyable for long periods of time.


I hear you. I had the X3s too, didn't care for the form factor or the seeming volume limitation. Figured nothing to lose trying the X4. I didn't dislike them but didn't find them compelling at $150 more than the MTs. I know they have a FW update, so I didn't get to hear that. But the MTs just sound so fine to me, after the initial hiccups with the case fitment and other hassles. I returned my first pair. No secret, I also am a major fan of the Melomania 1+. Different cat from  the Touch, but I listen to them a lot, built like a tank, click not tap, and 8 hours on a charge.

Anyway, didn't mean to denigrate the Sonys. Many here seem to love them. But I didn't feel the price to performance equation was there.


----------



## Tommy C (Jul 28, 2021)

CocaCola15 said:


> I hear you. I had the X3s too, didn't care for the form factor or the seeming volume limitation. Figured nothing to lose trying the X4. I didn't dislike them but didn't find them compelling at $150 more than the MTs. I know they have a FW update, so I didn't get to hear that. But the MTs just sound so fine to me, after the initial hiccups with the case fitment and other hassles. I returned my first pair. No secret, I also am a major fan of the Melomania 1+. Different cat from  the Touch, but I listen to them a lot, built like a tank, click not tap, and 8 hours on a charge.
> 
> Anyway, didn't mean to denigrate the Sonys. Many here seem to love them. But I didn't feel the price to performance equation was there.


I’m trying to understand if there is a different in sq between the CA Melomania 1+ and the Touch or is it simply a different form factor?
I guess I could always email CA but would much rather have an opinion from someone who has both.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

CJYYZ said:


> The shop I bought the Z7s from doesn't carry the MTs, so I exchanged them for a new set of Z7s. This new set sounds WAY better! I had to actually remove a bit of bass with the EQ, which leads me to think the left bass driver in the original pair was blown from the start. The honeymoon is back on!
> 
> I'm going to try some Azra tips to see if I can improve the fit. Can anyone explain the differences/benefits between Crystal and XELASTEC tips?
> 
> ...


That's a lot of links, bud. You want the Azla Crystal TWS tips. These guys:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08TWFTHRL/ref=cm_sw_r_apan_glt_fabc_VBG7T9R38TQMP1N4C0MF


----------



## Caipirina

jasonb said:


> I'm liking the sound of the WF-1000XM4 so far. With Spinfit 360 tips, some slight EQ, and LDAC locked at the highest quality things sound pretty impressive. I kind of expected that I'd like the sound quality of my Melomania Touch's more, but these are just as enjoyable, or maybe even better. The XM4 can sound just as clear and detailed, just as punchy, and just as dynamic. In terms of comfort I'm not 100% happy there yet, but I'm hoping I'll either get used to it and it wont bother me anymore or maybe one of the 3 different tips I ordered from Amazon will somehow help.
> 
> Also, for the people that have recommended that I try the Epro tips on my MT, those are one of the tips I ordered from Amazon. Also ordered the ridiculously expensive Spiral Dot++'s as well.
> 
> This is the EQ I'm using on the XM4. No complaints of them sounding dark or too bass heavy with this little amount of EQ (surprising to me) and the Spinfit 360 tips.


Nice to hear! My XM4 are supposed to arrive here next Wednesday, but still unclear if they have to stay for 2 weeks in quarantine with my 'courier' or if I can go pick them up ... will be interesting. Possibly the first on the island to have them. Though I have seen the new Beats TWS for sale for a mere 230USD


----------



## dweaver

Finally got the Status Between Pro yesterday and so far I pretty busy mpressed with their sound quality. They are lacking in the feature department (no app, no auto stop with sensors, no ANC.

But sonically I am really enjoying them. They have big sub-bass when called for, good natural sounding mid-bass,a slightly V shaped signature that is slightly warm,and decent highs. I also enjoy their imaging and sound stage. It's not as good as a great wired headphone but they better than some of my other TWS.

My son gave them a try with all electronic music and he really liked the bass in particular.. for me I found them good with Jazz, classical music, older rock music music, pretty much anything with natural instruments seems to sound good with them.


----------



## xuan87

Anyone here interested in purchasing the Nothing Ear 1? So far they are promising alot for $99:

Great design
11.6mm dynamic driver (I'm a sucker for huge single DD, Power of One!)
Made an effort to get an external company to tune it
Bluetooth 5.2
App for EQ tuning
ANC
Decent battery life

I'm not sure if it'll be coming to my country so I might not be able to listen to it before purchasing one.


----------



## mtl171

xuan87 said:


> Anyone here interested in purchasing the Nothing Ear 1? So far they are promising alot for $99:
> 
> Great design
> 11.6mm dynamic driver (I'm a sucker for huge single DD, Power of One!)
> ...


I'm intrigued to say the least. The decent battery life, EQ support, and ANC at the price is quite interesting. Though all the marketing push has me a bit skeptical, so definitely going to wait for some user reviews.


----------



## senorbroom

mtl171 said:


> I'm intrigued to say the least. The decent battery life, EQ support, and ANC at the price is quite interesting. Though all the marketing push has me a bit skeptical, so definitely going to wait for some user reviews.


I'm quite interested as well. I'm enjoying the new Sennhesier CX but the fit isn't amazing for me (I have small ears). I've got some Spinfit CP360 arriving tomorrow and if they don't help with the fit I might try and get in and take a gamble on the Nothing Ear (1). My main concern is that the sound will just be completely average.


----------



## tiagopinto

blomman77 said:


> Got my Melomania touch today and been playing around with it. So far great fit,slick App and really nice sounding to!
> One thing i wonder about,is the FW update. The first thing i thought of doing was a FW update,but the App says i'm  "up to date",which is fine i guess,
> but on the Cambridge homepage it says V 1.4.2 is the latest FW.  In my App it says "Firmware version L 2.1.0 R 2.1.0" and
> "App version 1.3.0" ?  Do i have a newer FW version or is something not right?  What do you MT owners think of this?



Well, my app says “you’re all up to date” on 1.3.0 and running 1.4.2 on the buds. A new version is soon to be released so you may have gotten an early bird somehow. 

Anyway, congrats and I do hope you enjoy them!


----------



## mtl171

senorbroom said:


> I'm quite interested as well. I'm enjoying the new Sennhesier CX but the fit isn't amazing for me (I have small ears). I've got some Spinfit CP360 arriving tomorrow and if they don't help with the fit I might try and get in and take a gamble on the Nothing Ear (1). My main concern is that the sound will just be completely average.


Its a real shame that most of these long battery live TWS have chonky shells. Darn physics. Have you tried the Airpods Pro? Battery life can get a bit bad after a year of DDing (AppleCare+ battery replacement is almost mandatory), and the ANC isn't as great as say the XM4s but the transparency and comfort from the smaller size/stemless tips is amazing.


----------



## blomman77

Yea strange indeed,but looks like i'm on a later FW. They have been working flawless so far.
Thanx,and i am indeed enjoying them.


tiagopinto said:


> Well, my app says “you’re all up to date” on 1.3.0 and running 1.4.2 on the buds. A new version is soon to be released so you may have gotten an early bird somehow.
> 
> Anyway, congrats and I do hope you enjoy them!


----------



## tiagopinto

Caipirina said:


> Talk about weird form factor …



I’m sorry... but this is just ridiculous. Awful in my opinion. And curiously it was one of the first instances I thought about safety and the risk of earbuds hurting or piercing your ears somehow. It may be me exaggerating but I guess the “thin spearhead” form factor suggested it to me. When someone says “the quality is poor but for a lot of people they’re good”, I just think “who are those people?” and “how dare you?”. Just ridiculous “fashion headset”, come on!


----------



## tiagopinto

erockg said:


> Okay, as always, I took the plunge.  I loved the MW08 but sold mine because of fit, the case was a fingerprint magnet and didn't have wireless charging - something I rely on in this day and age.
> 
> Picked up the MW08 Sport.  Same sound but still listening.  The case is exactly what it should be.  Wireless charging, matte finish, zero fingerprints.  The buds have the sapphire finish and they too have zero fingerprints.  What I really love is the foam tips.  Similar to the black olives Shure makes.  Better than Comply IMO.  This is exactly what they should've always included.  The fit is soooooo much better in my ears now.
> 
> It's going to be a fun afternoon...



Congrats. Many things in these are appealing to me. Can you detail how the SQ compares to the MT (if you have them) please? Thanks.


----------



## tiagopinto

CocaCola15 said:


> I had the Sonys, nice. I own the MTs, nice too. Sonys $279, MTs $129. I kept the MTs.



Exactly!


----------



## Juturna (Jul 29, 2021)

I think the Nothing Ear (1) seem interesting, but I don't think they'll live up to any hype but 100% be worth it for the price, but these are my predictions for them:

- Slightly more V-shaped tuning than the AirPods Pro and will be said to have better and more engaging and dynamic audio quality.
- The ANC will be good, but behind the heavyweights like Sony, Bose and possibly just behind the AirPods Pro. Probably not much better than the Soundcore earbuds and not necessarily best in class even within that lower midrange-price point.
- The call quality will be good, but lesser than the stem-style would suggest, ending up being better than the Sonys and Melomania's of the world, but lagging behind the APP, Jabras, Bose QC Buds, Galaxy Buds Pro etc.
- The app will be underwhelming and probably won't offer any in-depth functionality, so the EQ will be all presets and no way to fine-tune it more, maybe a 3-5 band EQ but i'm doubtful that it will end up having even that.

Media outlets and youtubers will hype them up for being so good for $99 and so will the less discerning user because they will be one of the better cheaper true wireless earbuds available for purchase in store in many places, while there are still better value for money if you buy online and/or if you do your research first. But they will be a solid first effort without really turning too many heads from the general populace because they still somewhat look like Airpods Pro clones in your ears.

I hope i'm wrong and that they're doing what OnePlus did for smartphones with being a flagship killer, unfortunately I feel like the TWS market is way different to the phone market, and they might look at AirPods Pro being the flagship to kill when they should be looking more at Sony, Sennheiser and B&W/M&D etc as the ones to really beat (technically AirPods probably have the biggest market share so if what you're thinking about is purely money and marketshare then yes they chose correctly). 
Because I feel like they're making this earbud to steal market share from AirPods by being cool-looking and having decent marketing behind it, but it doesn't feel like a product made specifically to sound the best they could get them to. 

If they looked like they do, had similar call quality than the AirPods Pro, ANC that is equal or better to it, with sound quality that rivals the XM4 (or slightly worse) at that price I would want them so badly. I don't expect that to be the case though.


----------



## Juturna (Jul 29, 2021)

I double posted, sorry lol.

I can take this post to say that the NuraTrue sounds really cool but the reviews state completely different things: Some say that it's overly boomy and bassy, some reviews say that there isn't any bass to talk about, some say that the bass is tight and punchy and only with the immersion slider turned up high it becomes boomy. While some people also say that the immersion slider adds some depth and a wider soundstage to the sound while some reviews don't even mention it. 

I just think that this is probably going to be one of the most difficult products to judge what it's going to be like for you with a review, because it's all dependent on the Nura audio personalization stuff, so in general it's just like... impossible to know. It's supposed to take in account for what your hearing is like, but is it trying to compensate in a way that makes it sound as good as possible for you, or is it trying to make it sound exactly the same for everybody by compensating on certain frequencies of your hearing? I had the NuraPhone like 3 or 4 years back and while it was impressive I don't think I ever quite loved it, but that's probably because

1) I don't like over ear headphones that much, at least not closed-back stuff when you're on-the-go. 
2) those eartips that are inside the earcups really made it feel like you were getting aurally probed.

I was actually waiting for a pair of Nura true wireless earbuds to be released, but now I'm getting really mixed feelings about it, especially with it having Bluetooth 5.0 and seemingly having a lot of audio cutouts and some latency issues. If the sound makes up for it I would still be all ears, but it's not that much cheaper than the Sony XM4's and it's impossible to know whether they sound better or worse than those, because no comparisons are made in the reviews when it comes to the sound.


----------



## CJYYZ

tiagopinto said:


> I’m sorry... but this is just ridiculous. Awful in my opinion. And curiously it was one of the first instances I thought about safety and the risk of earbuds hurting or piercing your ears somehow. It may be me exaggerating but I guess the “thin spearhead” form factor suggested it to me. When someone says “the quality is poor but for a lot of people they’re good”, I just think “who are those people?” and “how dare you?”. Just ridiculous “fashion headset”, come on!


Yes, but if you click the end, it turns into a pen. It doesn't write very well, but it's a fine looking pen. You can use it to sign the accidental lobotomy waiver if you trip whist wearing them.


----------



## BobJS

blomman77 said:


> When i check Cambridge audio US i am able to "buy" the Melomania 1+
> but not the Touch.
> So the Touch is probably out of stock.
> But mail them to be sure



Thanks for the reply.  This is the universe telling me I need another TW like I need a hole in the head.


----------



## senorbroom

Some Nothing reviews are out. Seems like it’s good for the price but pretty average otherwise: https://www.theverge.com/22598920/nothing-ear-1-earbuds-review-features-specs

B&O have also entered the ANC TWS space: https://www.theverge.com/2021/7/29/...-wireless-earbuds-price-release-date-features


----------



## SharkSkin

https://m.gsmarena.com/nothing_ear_1_review-news-50295.php

One more ear 1 review. Also mentions treble can get sibilant at times.


----------



## erockg

tiagopinto said:


> Congrats. Many things in these are appealing to me. Can you detail how the SQ compares to the MT (if you have them) please? Thanks.


Sadly, I returned my MT right around launch day.  I had too many issues with them before they updated the firmware.  They did sound wonderful.  Loved the deep punchy bass.  But they also lacked ANC and wireless charging.  That said, you're comparing a $129 to a $349 headphone.  You get more features with the MW08S, but is the $220 difference worth it?  Really up to you.  Personally, I think the build quality of the MW vs the MT's is incredibly gorgeous.  Fit is different.  MT's go deeper into your ear and have a tighter fit than the MW08S.  Battery life is comparable.  Soundstage is wide with deep full sound.  ANC isn't as strong as the Sony XM4's.  The new case with the MW08S is awesome.  If you'd rather save money, get the MT's.  The sound is spot on and if the firmware updates have helped the issues like many on this forum have noted, you'll be happy.  If money isn't an object, you want a premium headphone built with great materials and some extras, get the M&D's.


----------



## erockg

senorbroom said:


> Some Nothing reviews are out. Seems like it’s good for the price but pretty average otherwise: https://www.theverge.com/22598920/nothing-ear-1-earbuds-review-features-specs
> 
> B&O have also entered the ANC TWS space: https://www.theverge.com/2021/7/29/...-wireless-earbuds-price-release-date-features


Been waiting for the official announcement for months!  Fingers crossed they're great.


----------



## tiagopinto

senorbroom said:


> B&O have also entered the ANC TWS space: https://www.theverge.com/2021/7/29/...-wireless-earbuds-price-release-date-features



400€!!! Bluetooth resolution. Ridiculous. I’m sorry.


----------



## tiagopinto

erockg said:


> Sadly, I returned my MT right around launch day.  I had too many issues with them before they updated the firmware.  They did sound wonderful.  Loved the deep punchy bass.  But they also lacked ANC and wireless charging.  That said, you're comparing a $129 to a $349 headphone.  You get more features with the MW08S, but is the $220 difference worth it?  Really up to you.  Personally, I think the build quality of the MW vs the MT's is incredibly gorgeous.  Fit is different.  MT's go deeper into your ear and have a tighter fit than the MW08S.  Battery life is comparable.  Soundstage is wide with deep full sound.  ANC isn't as strong as the Sony XM4's.  The new case with the MW08S is awesome.  If you'd rather save money, get the MT's.  The sound is spot on and if the firmware updates have helped the issues like many on this forum have noted, you'll be happy.  If money isn't an object, you want a premium headphone built with great materials and some extras, get the M&D's.



Thanks. I actually own the MT’s. I know the price difference isn’t even fair but I just love the MW08 as an object. And if they had a “wonderful” sound I’d be more tempted. I’m happy with the MT’s but a possible “considerable” upgrade not only in form but also in sound would justify it for me. Always on the watch, hehe.


----------



## Caipirina

tiagopinto said:


> I’m sorry... but this is just ridiculous. Awful in my opinion. And curiously it was one of the first instances I thought about safety and the risk of earbuds hurting or piercing your ears somehow. It may be me exaggerating but I guess the “thin spearhead” form factor suggested it to me. When someone says “the quality is poor but for a lot of people they’re good”, I just think “who are those people?” and “how dare you?”. Just ridiculous “fashion headset”, come on!


I was also wondering about risk of injury ...   and that 'review' is just silly


----------



## Caipirina

SharkSkin said:


> https://m.gsmarena.com/nothing_ear_1_review-news-50295.php
> 
> One more ear 1 review. Also mentions treble can get sibilant at times.


I jave not even had the Nothing ear 1 on my radar until just now when maybe some kind of embargo was lifted and both, MrWhosetheboss and Marques Brownlee were just thrown in my face by YT's algorithm 
Can't say I care much for that look .. I recall a weird time in the 90ies when transparent everything was a fad ... 
But I can see that people who do not want to shell out 249 for airpods might be happy with them


----------



## Juturna

I feel like Nostradamus based on my predictions for Nothing Ear 1's from the previous page honestly, felt like I was pretty spot-on except the mic quality seems to be even worse than I thought.


----------



## erockg

tiagopinto said:


> Thanks. I actually own the MT’s. I know the price difference isn’t even fair but I just love the MW08 as an object. And if they had a “wonderful” sound I’d be more tempted. I’m happy with the MT’s but a possible “considerable” upgrade not only in form but also in sound would justify it for me. Always on the watch, hehe.


I love the MW08S sound.  The new sapphire shell and kevlar case are just outstanding.  Same here re: on the watch   It's an addicting hobby!


----------



## mtl171

tiagopinto said:


> I’m sorry... but this is just ridiculous. Awful in my opinion. And curiously it was one of the first instances I thought about safety and the risk of earbuds hurting or piercing your ears somehow. It may be me exaggerating but I guess the “thin spearhead” form factor suggested it to me. When someone says “the quality is poor but for a lot of people they’re good”, I just think “who are those people?” and “how dare you?”. Just ridiculous “fashion headset”, come on!


Etymotic IEM users say hello  At least theres a angle to stop it from going all the way into a ear canal. The ear piece after the right angle does seem a bit short, I wonder if it gets deep enough.


Juturna said:


> I think the Nothing Ear (1) seem interesting, but I don't think they'll live up to any hype but 100% be worth it for the price, but these are my predictions for them:
> 
> - Slightly more V-shaped tuning than the AirPods Pro and will be said to have better and more engaging and dynamic audio quality.
> - The ANC will be good, but behind the heavyweights like Sony, Bose and possibly just behind the AirPods Pro. Probably not much better than the Soundcore earbuds and not necessarily best in class even within that lower midrange-price point.
> ...


I definitely think they'll go for more V-shaped similar to Raycons, though I do think they'll put more of a focus on mids for vocals. I'm quite doubtful for ANC and do think they make go with simple nonreactive ANC (no idea what the sound cores use). Call quality and app I agree too. I doubt they'd make it awful but at the same time they have a price point to work with.


Juturna said:


> I double posted, sorry lol.
> 
> I can take this post to say that the NuraTrue sounds really cool but the reviews state completely different things: Some say that it's overly boomy and bassy, some reviews say that there isn't any bass to talk about, some say that the bass is tight and punchy and only with the immersion slider turned up high it becomes boomy. While some people also say that the immersion slider adds some depth and a wider soundstage to the sound while some reviews don't even mention it.
> 
> ...


Intriguing. Do the Nura Trues have the same otoacoustic tuning as the Nuraphones? The reviews are so mixed for their product sound wise, I'm extremely tempted to pick up a pair of nuraphones if not just for the interesting cup/tip design and the tactile bass. From my interpretation, it seems like they're trying to compensate for weaker frequencies and adjust it to match a set of target curves (picked by personal preference). Again I do not have experience with it in person, though it'd be neat if they manage to get the same tech packaged into a pair of TWS (no tactile bass unfortunately). The price on the Trues does make it a bit high to be a impulse buy especially with the XM4 being so close


----------



## CJYYZ

miserybeforethemusic said:


> That's a lot of links, bud. You want the Azla Crystal TWS tips. These guys:
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08TWFTHRL/ref=cm_sw_r_apan_glt_fabc_VBG7T9R38TQMP1N4C0MF


Oops, I have a copy/paste problem. Thanks for the info!


----------



## bladefd

tiagopinto said:


> 400€!!! Bluetooth resolution. Ridiculous. I’m sorry.


B&O products are always very expensive unfortunately. They don't usually lower prices much either unless if it's refurbished or old generation.


----------



## KopaneDePooj (Aug 11, 2021)

Hello!
A few pages back I asked for a TW IEM recommendation, I specifically needed a vented design that doesn't create ear-canal pressure.
Some of you recommended some IEMs and I thank you!

I searched a lot and these are the vented IEMs that I could find, maybe this list will help others looking for vented iems.
About some of them I'm not 100% sure if they have at least a front-vent hole, but others like the Jabra 85t, Galaxy Buds Pro and Airpods Pro are clearly advertised as semi-open / vented.

Jabra 85t
Galaxy Buds Pro
Galaxy Buds Live
Sony WF-1000XM4
Apple Airpods Pro
Beats Studio Buds
Amazon Echo Buds (2nd Gen)
Google Pixel Buds 2
Soundpeats T2 ? (not sure / some online reviews say they don't create ear-canal pressure. Looks like they have a front vent-hole)
Earfun Free Pro ? (not sure)

Initially I bought the Galaxy Buds Live, but two days later I found an offer that I couldn't refuse  Jabra 85t / store open box / perfect condition / 60-day return policy / 2y warranty - for $150. So my initial budget of $60 had to be forgotten...

I'm in the process of returning the Buds Live, because the Jabra 85t are miles better in every aspect. Beautiful expansive sound, full-bodied vocals, on the warmer side as I like, but with excellent defined (for my ear and taste) silky-smooth details. I like them very much and thanks to those that recommended them!

These are my first TW IEMs and I have some points that I'd like to discuss:

1. I'm not comfortable with the fact that I cannot control the charging. I will not use them heavily, and always charging from 85ish to 100% is not ideal. I wish the charging case could be switched off. Does anybody else has this "problem"? 
The good thing though with the 85t is that they CAN be turned off manually compared the Buds Live and others that are always on until put in the case, and then they charge whether you want it or not... I might have to search for a small non-charging carrying case or just relax and use the normal case and be OK with "always charging".
What's your take on this? Does anybody use a non-charging case? Which one? 

2. By design, the Jabra 85t doesn't go very deep into the ear canal and I sometimes feel they are not very secure even with the large tips. Sometimes the fit test in the Jabra app reports that the left ear is not sealed properly. Any aftermarket larger oval tips that fit the 85t? Silicone only, I don't like what memory foam does with the sound. Or some wing-tips that fit the body of the 85t might help lock them better? The IEM body is not touching the back of my ear, I have large ears..

Thanks!


----------



## mtl171

KopaneDePooj said:


> 1. I'm not comfortable with the fact that I cannot control the charging. I will not use them heavily, and always charging from 85ish to 100% is not ideal. I wish the charging case could be switched off. Does anybody else has this "problem"?
> The good thing though with the 85t is that they CAN be turned off manually compared the Buds Live and others that are always on until put in the case, and then they charge whether you want it or not... I might have to search for a small non-charging carrying case or just relax and use the normal case and be OK with "always charging".
> What's your take on this? Does anybody use a non-charging case? Which one?


With the AirPods Pro, they do support smart charging through iOS. So it charges up to 80%, then slowly charges up to full closer to wake up time. I honestly don't know if it makes a difference, though for the most part I've just decided to accept the battery degradation as the price of convenience and always having topped up earphones. Apple Care+ battery replacement does take the sting out of it by replacing both AirPods for $29, though definitely noticing the degraded battery in the charging case (guessing its at 60% health). Its a real shame these TWS only have a life of 2 years or so with the current batch of 5 hour listening times (accounting for degradation with daily use), though theres always new improved stuff around the corner! 

EDIT: I am looking into trying getting a portable bluetooth DAC with mic as an alternative. Though TWS are so dang convenient.


----------



## jasonb

So I just tried one more set of silicone tips on my Melomania Touch's. I got the Spiral Dot++'s to try on the WF1000XM4 which for me they do not sound good together, but that's for another topic. Anyway, I also tried the Spiral Dots on the Melomania Touch's and once again, anytime I'm not being as still as a statue the sound gets muffled until the pressure in my ears I guess you can call it "normalizes". It's isn't the tip being pinched, it's definitely some sort of pressure thing preventing the speaker drivers from moving how they are supposed to. I've never experienced this with any tips on any other IEM, wireless or not. IDK why this is happening with every silicone tip I try on these. No issue at all with foam on these. But for example, I just got the WF1000XM4 and I can move as much as I want and can't reproduce this effect with these.


----------



## LordToneeus

erockg said:


> Okay, as always, I took the plunge.  I loved the MW08 but sold mine because of fit, the case was a fingerprint magnet and didn't have wireless charging - something I rely on in this day and age.
> 
> Picked up the MW08 Sport.  Same sound but still listening.  The case is exactly what it should be.  Wireless charging, matte finish, zero fingerprints.  The buds have the sapphire finish and they too have zero fingerprints.  What I really love is the foam tips.  Similar to the black olives Shure makes.  Better than Comply IMO.  This is exactly what they should've always included.  The fit is soooooo much better in my ears now.
> 
> It's going to be a fun afternoon...


That green is so beautiful.  I am sore tempted.


----------



## BooleanBones

TK33 said:


> Just got them today from MTMT after you posted the Final Type E TWS link last time. They shipped pretty quickly  Pretty happy with them on my PI7s.  Wanted to see if the shorter tips would help with the ear pain I have been having the last few months. They are very comfortable and seal pretty well so far.
> 
> Thanks for pointing these out to me.


Me too. I ordered before vacation and got them when I got back. Got one set on my XM4s as I really liked the standard Final tips on them. Next up, I will be throwing a set on my MTs for a yard work test


----------



## BooleanBones

Since I have been grounded for work, I finally got a chance this last week to give a good flight test to the ANC on the XM4s along with the battery life. The flight was 7+ hours and between the normal plane noise and the expected neighbor noises, I did not hear a thing (including my wife next to me). The battery life was awesome as well and did not need to consider pulling them out for a charge the entire time I was using them which was around six hours. I also used the hell out of the touch ambient mode, which I have loved on the XM4s.


----------



## Knightsfan11

Have been using Jabra Elite 75t for a few months now, with spinfit tips, which have been fine. I decided to try on the Azla Sedna Xelastec tips, damn do they transform the sound of these earphones. 

It's a shame the tips are a touch to bulky, meaning I can't shut the charging case properly, so have to remove the tips each time. The nozzle is also a touch short, so the tips are probably going to get stuck in my ear at times when removing. 

Any other tip suggestions, not silicon?


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

Knightsfan11 said:


> Have been using Jabra Elite 75t for a few months now, with spinfit tips, which have been fine. I decided to try on the Azla Sedna Xelastec tips, damn do they transform the sound of these earphones.
> 
> It's a shame the tips are a touch to bulky, meaning I can't shut the charging case properly, so have to remove the tips each time. The nozzle is also a touch short, so the tips are probably going to get stuck in my ear at times when removing.
> 
> Any other tip suggestions, not silicon?


For the EA75t, I like the EPro TW00. Case-compatible and narrow enough so the buds don't bulge out of my ears. Stays fairly true to the stock signature.

Interesting you could even get the XELASTEC to make purchase on the EA75t's nozzle. I thought they had a 5mm ID and it just would have fallen off. Fwiw, I think the AZLA Crystal were a decent pairing and should work in the case as well. The EPro should be cheaper.


----------



## senorbroom

Knightsfan11 said:


> Have been using Jabra Elite 75t for a few months now, with spinfit tips, which have been fine. I decided to try on the Azla Sedna Xelastec tips, damn do they transform the sound of these earphones.
> 
> It's a shame the tips are a touch to bulky, meaning I can't shut the charging case properly, so have to remove the tips each time. The nozzle is also a touch short, so the tips are probably going to get stuck in my ear at times when removing.
> 
> Any other tip suggestions, not silicon?


Can you use a scalpel to reduce the length of the nozzle attachment on the Xelastecs?


----------



## dweaver (Jul 30, 2021)

So I have been playing with some tips on the Status Between Pro and so far a wide mouth tip gives them a bit more open sound, Sony Hybrid tips are super comfy but they dampen the treble so are only good if you struggle with treble and like a relaxed signature.






I took these off my Galaxy Buds Pro and they originally came from the AZ70.

Right now I am playing with the original Between tips on the Galaxy Buds Pro (don't you love tips rolling... LOL).

Really loving the signature of this Between. These have north of normal bass but it done really well only occasionally being a bit to pushy. For most of my music it just adds a bit more emphasis to bass lines making double bass in Jazz sound amazing as well bass guitars in classic rock songs, and for songs needing big sub bass like some Hans Zimmer sound tracks well they are damn near perfect.

You would think that with all that bass these would be overly warm possibly making female singers sound to husky and electric guitars sound dull. But no they don't fall into that trap unlike even some expensive IEMs like the Sony XBA Z5. I do notice the midrange is slightly further back exposing the slight V shaped signature but it's not so overdone that I feel these are veiled like some classic Sennheiser products.

The treble is also very nice providing great detail without being sharp or fatiguing. I have to admit I initially prefered the Galaxy Buds Pro in this area as they have been my primary TWS lately but my ears quickly adjusted to the Between treble and now I appreciate both equally.

Between these and Galaxy Bud Pro the Galaxy is the more balanced sounding TWS and given I only paid $25 more for the Galaxy due to the difference in the dollar between Canada and the US it is arguably the better TWS given that is has ANC, ambient passthrough, sensors etc. But that's only if can get the Galaxy at a really good sales price and don't mind battery life that is less than half the Between Pro.

To be honest the passive noise cancelling of the Beyween Pro is almost as good as the ANC of the Galaxy Buds Pro as that is not the Galaxy Buds Pro's best feature.

I took these for a run today and they stayed in place very well but the Galaxy Pro has less thumping because of their pressure relief design, so between that and the IPX7 rating I think I will use the Galaxies when excercising. But if I only had the Between Pro they would good enough.

I suspect since these have only been available through Indiegogo they have not had a chance to become popular as that method is down right painful and certainly not the instant gratification of say Amazon. But once these become available through normal channels they deserve to heard as they have great sound. I fully expect they will rarely sell at their full suggested retail and will certainly compete against the Sennheiser CX CX400BT or the Master Dynamics offerings and others. They are not super flashy and offer darn near no gimmicks but they are designed well enough they don't really need to...


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

dweaver said:


> So I have been playing with some tips on the Status Between Pro and so far a wide mouth tip gives them a bit more open sound, Sony Hybrid tips are super comfy but they dampen the treble so are only good if you struggle with treble and like a relaxed signature.
> 
> I took these off my Galaxy Buds Pro and they originally came from the AZ70.
> 
> ...


My take on them is a little different. I think Status nails tonality and general usability, but there are some quirks...like trying to get them out of the case. The reason I don't use them more really comes down to technicalities. All that focus on timbre works up and to a point, but I wanted way more out of the Between Pro when it comes to staging. Agree with you on comfort, though I'm somewhat in between sizes with their stock tips.

At $75 (the IGG pricing, if I remember right), you could make a pretty solid case for these, but they sell at $150 now (and that's sale pricing). At $150, there's no way I would take these over the MT unless I absolutely needed the stability.


----------



## dweaver (Jul 30, 2021)

I like their sound stage and think they have good imaging

But I also have not heard the MT or some of the other products out there so can only compare to what I have on hand as compared to some of you who have heard more products.

No doubt at full suggested retail these are not a bargain but if they are like other Status products they will go on sale regularly. On sale they are competitive.

Sorry just saw the part about $150 on sale. At that price they are a much tougher call. I paid $160 CAD ($100 US plus $20 US for shipping) and at that price the on sale Samsung Galaxy Pro is definitely better in most regards and close to the same price. So these will definitely sell better when their price comes down more.


----------



## MichaelScarn (Jul 30, 2021)

Probably been asked before, so forgive me: but are there differences soundwise between the Melomania Touch and the One Plus?


----------



## tiagopinto

KopaneDePooj said:


> 1. I'm not comfortable with the fact that I cannot control the charging. I will not use them heavily, and always charging from 85ish to 100% is not ideal. I wish the charging case could be switched off. Does anybody else has this "problem"?
> The good thing though with the 85t is that they CAN be turned off manually compared the Buds Live and others that are always on until put in the case, and then they charge whether you want it or not... I might have to search for a small non-charging carrying case or just relax and use the normal case and be OK with "always charging".
> What's your take on this? Does anybody use a non-charging case? Which one?



I haven’t seen any case which allows to not charge the buds while they’re in the case. I feel you on this though. I also worry about battery degradation over short top-ups. Sometimes, when at home, if I pause my listening through the MT, I just leave them out if the case until I know I’m not going to be using them anymore that day. This way they’ll “discharge” a bit more on their own. I eventually go back to them, otherwise I’ll just put them back in there. But I do try and make “fuller” cycles.


----------



## Tommy C

MichaelScarn said:


> Probably been asked before, so forgive me: but are there differences soundwise between the Melomania Touch and the One Plus?


I had tried to find out but so far haven’t received any feedback so go good luck, bud.


----------



## BigZ12

MichaelScarn said:


> Probably been asked before, so forgive me: but are there differences soundwise between the Melomania Touch and the One Plus?


----------



## scubaphish

BigZ12 said:


>



I wish I was able to get the 1+ to stay in my ears


----------



## KopaneDePooj

tiagopinto said:


> I haven’t seen any case which allows to not charge the buds while they’re in the case. I feel you on this though. I also worry about battery degradation over short top-ups. Sometimes, when at home, if I pause my listening through the MT, I just leave them out if the case until I know I’m not going to be using them anymore that day. This way they’ll “discharge” a bit more on their own. I eventually go back to them, otherwise I’ll just put them back in there. But I do try and make “fuller” cycles.


Found something that will do the job, an old iem case that came with a promo for a 6-pack or something.  Today I walked with them for an hour and had 90% left... so I put them in here instead of charging. Good thing they can be turn off by pressing both buttons simultaneously.


----------



## CocaCola15 (Jul 30, 2021)

dweaver said:


> I like their sound stage and think they have good imaging
> 
> But I also have not heard the MT or some of the other products out there so can only compare to what I have on hand as compared to some of you who have heard more products.
> 
> ...


Since I was an early bird for the BPs, at $75, they are a keeper. I have had some issues with fitment, not found the best tip for them yet. Using the OEM large tips for now. But once they are in place, they can really deliver excellent sound as you found. Like any IEM, especially BT it seems, there will be differences among users. So at or around $99, they are a good deal. Any higher, probably not as much. I also favor the click over the tap on BT phones, so form-wise they work for me, other than trying to find the right tips.

As for getting them in and out of the case, a major PITA!

I have the Touch here as well. And I use them both, best I can say (along with the M1+). That trio has me thinking it's time to put on the buy brakes. I am being serious! (Or trying to be).


----------



## CocaCola15

scubaphish said:


> I wish I was able to get the 1+ to stay in my ears


Use the foam tips. They have worked for me since day 1 with the original M1 (and now the M1+). They come in small and medium only (I use the latter), so not a solution for large ear canals. Not sure why. CA is missing the boat not making a large pair of foam tips. Also, their OEM foam tips are cleanable with hydrogen peroxide and water. Amazing they are near new, unlike Complys, which don't respond well to cleaning.


----------



## scubaphish (Jul 30, 2021)

CocaCola15 said:


> Use the foam tips. They have worked for me since day 1 with the original M1 (and now the M1+). They come in small and medium only (I use the latter), so not a solution for large ear canals. Not sure why. CA is missing the boat not making a large pair of foam tips. Also, their OEM foam tips are cleanable with hydrogen peroxide and water. Amazing they are near new, unlike Complys, which don't respond well to cleaning.


Thanks for that. Oddly enough, too large for my ear canals…I was shocked really


----------



## CocaCola15

scubaphish said:


> Thanks for that. Oddly enough, too large for my ear canals…I was shocked really


Even the small ones? Ouch.


----------



## dweaver

On the train today I found the passive noise reduction of the Status Between Pro better than the ANC of the Galaxy Buds Pro.

So enjoyed a ride into the office listening to the Between Pro.

Not sure if anyone listens to music by Steve Roach but listening to the album Mantrum really shows off the imaging and sound stage of the Between Pro. The album is New Age/Ambient so very chill and relaxed and between the deep drums and the overall sense of soundscape made for an excellent half hour ride .


----------



## bladefd

How long did it take you guys to hear back from CA after submitting a rma request? I submitted on Tuesday for the MT and haven't heard back yet from them.


----------



## CocaCola15 (Jul 30, 2021)

MichaelScarn said:


> Probably been asked before, so forgive me: but are there differences soundwise between the Melomania Touch and the One Plus?


Double post


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

bladefd said:


> How long did it take you guys to hear back from CA after submitting a rma request? I submitted on Tuesday for the MT and haven't heard back yet from them.


Think I had to send a friendly reminder. If you still don't get a response by Monday, might be worth using that CEO email and explaining that the ZenDesk process isn't working as efficiently as it should.


----------



## clerkpalmer

I really want to order the MW08S. They are just so premium. I did not enjoy the sq of the MW08 initially and returned them for too much bass. Any reason for me to give them another chance?  Will they come close to the pI7? Or am I wasting my money? Anyone with both care to provide impressions?


----------



## scubaphish (Jul 31, 2021)

deleted post…no longer available


----------



## BigZ12

Sony WF-1000XM4 with the latest firmware, Fiio BTA30 (LDAC) and these APO EQ settings... sounds very good!
A little strange Sony don't use a tuning more similar to this, and not that dark and little muddy sound signature for their XM4s (both WF and WH actually).


----------



## newtophones07

BigZ12 said:


> Sony WF-1000XM4 with the latest firmware, Fiio BTA30 (LDAC) and these APO EQ settings... sounds very good!
> A little strange Sony don't use a tuning more similar to this, and not that dark and little muddy sound signature for their XM4s (both WF and WH actually).


Can you post your csv file so I can try it in wavelet?  Thanks


----------



## FYLegend

Finally, Windows 11 Beta has rolled out, with Bluetooth AAC codec support! Now I can say goodbye to the crappy SBC bitpool of the Galaxy Buds+. It sounds much clearer, though I do find the treble a bit peaky (which may just be in my head or due to other factors).

I do wonder if anyone can confirm if Windows 10 21H2 has it too. It was initially slated and included in the preview channel build for Win10 but they quickly jumped to Win11 but as many devices can't be updated I wonder if AAC support will only be on Win11.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

FYLegend said:


> Finally, Windows 11 Beta has rolled out, with Bluetooth AAC codec support! Now I can say goodbye to the crappy SBC bitpool of the Galaxy Buds+. It sounds much clearer, though I do find the treble a bit peaky (which may just be in my head or due to other factors).
> 
> I do wonder if anyone can confirm if Windows 10 21H2 has it too. It was initially slated and included in the preview channel build for Win10 but they quickly jumped to Win11 but as many devices can't be updated I wonder if AAC support will only be on Win11.


Wasn't there a periodic update in Win10 that brought in aptX?



I mean it's the word of a Microsoft tech, but take it for what it's worth. If AAC is new, though, awesome.


----------



## FYLegend

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Wasn't there a periodic update in Win10 that brought in aptX?
> 
> 
> 
> I mean it's the word of a Microsoft tech, but take it for what it's worth. If AAC is new, though, awesome.


AptX came with the launch of Win10, but might not be supported on all drivers.


----------



## assassin10000

Been enjoying the XM4's that arrived today.

They fixed the 3 things that most bothered me about the XM3:
Fit is now good with the much smaller earpieces.
Case is now small enough to pocket carry (fits 5th pocket of my jeans).
Qi/wireless charging.


I did have to swap tips, as I have small shallow ears, for a better fit (and possibly sound?).







Left: de-cored aftermarket APP foam tips.
Right: Sony XM4 foam tips.


----------



## BigZ12

newtophones07 said:


> Can you post your csv file so I can try it in wavelet?  Thanks


I don't find any options to export as csv with Peters EQ APO. Only XML?


----------



## KopaneDePooj (Jul 31, 2021)

BigZ12 said:


> Sony WF-1000XM4 with the latest firmware, Fiio BTA30 (LDAC) and these APO EQ settings... sounds very good!
> A little strange Sony don't use a tuning more similar to this, and not that dark and little muddy sound signature for their XM4s (both WF and WH actually).



It's not "strange", it's just that some call "dark and muddy" - "warm and musical", and find that stock tuning more natural. Didn't listen to the WF, but I had the WH XM4 and I like its stock tunning better than the WH XM3 which had bloated bass and an artificial "digital" spike in the highs. So it looks like I wouldn't like your eq with the body sucked out of vocals and the increased highs. Everyone likes different signatures, nothing strange about it, and I'm glad that we have options and not every earphone sounds "clear" and with "great detail retrieval".


----------



## potix (Jul 31, 2021)

KopaneDePooj said:


> It's not "strange", it's just that some call "dark & muddy" - "warm and musical", and find that stock tuning more natural. Didn't listen to the WF, but I had the WH XM4 and I like its stock tunning better than the WH XM3 which had bloated bass and an artificial "digital" spike in the highs. So it looks like I wouldn't like your eq with the body sucked out of vocals and the increased highs. Everyone likes different signatures, nothing strange about it, and I'm glad that we have options and not every earphone sounds "clear" and with great "detail retrieval".


I like the xm4 frequency response because there isn't any big peak or dip. They are very tunable using stock equalizer. I returned the PI7, too many flaws and tinny (although detailed) treble to my ears, and I couldn't stop coming back to wavelet. Got xm4 equed in a couple days. I will miss the b&w mainly because they were super comfy and with awesome mids.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

Well this is interesting...



Getting fit right takes a little finesse, but this is a pretty impressive showing, especially for a sub-$70 set of earbuds (Smabat M2s Pro). I know it might be cheating a little, but man if this isn't world-class staging. First set of earbuds I've managed to get my hands on with just a little sub-bass. Listening to AI's _Paradigmension _is a real treat right now, especially now that the cable is out of the way.

Obviously no passive isolation to speak of whatsoever, but also means there's zero need to rely on HearThrough microphones. Definitely recommend.


----------



## jasonb

Unfortunately I think my XM4 may be going back to Best Buy. I can't really stand to wear them. I guess my ears are too small for them because the overall bulbous shape of them feels like they are trying to stretch my ears apart. I only got them Tuesday night so I have another week and a couple days to truly decide, but I don't want to end up stuck with a $300 pair of earbuds that I can't stand to actually use. It's a shame because they do sound really good and I like the features.

This part circled in red is what seems to be causing the issue for me. No matter how I twist them or how far or not far I insert them this seems to be causing discomfort.


----------



## Caipirina (Jul 31, 2021)

Can anyone tell me what’s going on with KZ? I was checking if there is anything new worth checking out and their offerings confuse me.
am I seeing this correctly that the SKS, the SK10 & the Z3 all have one 10mm DD with a 30019 BA per ear and all use the qc3040 bt5.2 chip? What’s the difference? The ad material does not mention any special different tuning. All the same in different colors and boxes? Which is the one to get these days?
and how does that 8ba model (sa08) fare in comparison?


----------



## assassin10000

jasonb said:


> Unfortunately I think my XM4 may be going back to Best Buy. I can't really stand to wear them. I guess my ears are too small for them because the overall bulbous shape of them feels like they are trying to stretch my ears apart. I only got them Tuesday night so I have another week and a couple days to truly decide, but I don't want to end up stuck with a $300 pair of earbuds that I can't stand to actually use. It's a shame because they do sound really good and I like the features.
> 
> This part circled in red is what seems to be causing the issue for me. No matter how I twist them or how far or not far I insert them this seems to be causing discomfort.



See my message below (from the XM4 thread).


assassin10000 said:


> If you pull the earpieces forward a mm or so does that relieve the pressure?
> 
> I had a similar issue til I found my shorter APP foam were way shallower and brought them both in and forward in my ears.


----------



## carlosonunez

Hello!

I purchased the M&D MW08 through Amazon. I returned them the next day, sadly.

I was comparing them to my current daily driver, the Samsung Galaxy Buds Pro (which I absolutely _love_). I also had the MW07s, which I really liked but had to return due to them not supporting AAC.

These IEMs are absolutely beautiful. The case is awesome as well! Best looking case of any IEM, 100% hands down.

The fit was comfortable at first, but degraded very quickly. The silicone tips were extremely uncomfortable while working out. I had to take them out after 10 minutes or so.

The sound was dark and boomy. These would be awesome for EDM and house, but since I normally listen to crappy emo and pop punk, I heard "bass in the wrong places" if that makes sense. I prefer the flatter sound profile of the Galaxy Buds (though I currently them on the "Dynamic" sound setting, which is more V-shaped).

Its ANC was a joke. Barely present, even with "Max ANC" on (which definitely added insult to injury). It's ambient mode sounds very natural, however.

The app is nice and simple. It even allows you to rename the headphones, which is cool.

Call quality was pretty good. However, it minimizes ANC while its enable, which makes bone conduction more prominent. This was very uncomfortable.

I really wanted to like these. I was even considering purchasing the MW08 Sport (though I didn't because if it ain't on Amazon, it ain't getting bought). Unfortunate how this played out.


----------



## clerkpalmer

carlosonunez said:


> Hello!
> 
> I purchased the M&D MW08 through Amazon. I returned them the next day, sadly.
> 
> ...


Yep. Reminds me of my experience. Thanks for talking me off the ledge. Was gonna repurchase them.  But this is exactly what will happen to me.


----------



## carlosonunez

clerkpalmer said:


> Yep. Reminds me of my experience. Thanks for talking me off the ledge. Was gonna repurchase them.  But this is exactly what will happen to me.


No problem! I hate that I don't like these. They are _beautiful_.


----------



## rhsauer

carlosonunez said:


> No problem! I hate that I don't like these. They are _beautiful_.


Sorry about your bad experience with the MW08s.  I know it's been stated on here before (in at least one instance, by me), but tip rolling is extremely important with these.  I also found the included tips to be uncomfortable after a short amount of time, but have found that the SpinFit CP-100 (Large) are comfortable and brighten up the sound.  Right now I'm loving these earphones -- although I agree that the ANC could be better.  YMMV.


----------



## logiatype

Been a while since I've been here. Any new pairs with multipoint or multi-pair ability?


----------



## dweaver (Jul 31, 2021)

Tried running using the Status Between Pro using the original large tips. Lasted less than 2 minutes, returned home and put back on AZ70 tips. The original tips are comfy when sitting but when running they allow the IEM to move to much which is to distracting and annoying.

Which meant I needed new tips for the Galaxy Buds Pro since that was tips used successfully on that TWS. So grabbed the brand new Sony hybrids tips I had been using on the 1000XM3 and washed them with rubbing alcohol followed by hydrogen peroxide, followed by hot water to remove all oil and have put them on the Galaxy Bud Pros, my hope is that if they have no oil on them they won't slip off like they wanted to do the first time I tried them. I like how they reign in the treble just a smidge.

So I am just going to say it. For me, the Status Between Pro has the best 3D imaging of any TWS I have tried. Better than the 1000XM3, AZ70, Galaxy Buds Pro, Sennheiser original MTW. They are about 80% of the XBA-Z5 with none of its tonal short comings.

I was cooking away this morning and a song from Conan the Barbarian, Orphans of Doom / The Awakening started playing and the Between Pro was simply amazing. These really do handle classical music well.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

dweaver said:


> So I am just going to say it. For me, the Status Between Pro has the best 3D imaging of any TWS I have tried. Better than the 1000XM3, AZ70, Galaxy Buds Pro, Sennheiser original MTW. They are about 80% of the XBA-Z5 with none of its tonal short comings.


You might be a good candidate for the FITS, then. I think its ability to image is a nice step up from the Status and the lack of extra bass opens everything up a ton. Have a feeling they'll end up being market competitors with the Between Pro if UE could ever figure out what pricing they want to keep. Looks like it's down to $200 this weekend.


----------



## dweaver

The Fit is a very interesting IEM that might be awesome. Unfortunately they are not available easily in Canada. But I love the idea of a custom fit IEM so might consider them at some point. I have owned a couple UE products in the past and always enjoyed their tonality. My issues were always fit or cable woes. Both issues that should not be an issue in the Fit.


----------



## Caipirina

assassin10000 said:


> Been enjoying the XM4's that arrived today.
> 
> They fixed the 3 things that most bothered me about the XM3:
> Fit is now good with the much smaller earpieces.
> ...


They have oval nozzles? I actually have some of those APP foam tips (did not like 'em on the APP), and my Xm4 are supposed to arrive in a few days, fingers crossed


----------



## xSDMx

Wow. Demoing the Soundpeats H1s today. What an absolute steal at their price point. No ANC ofc., but really fantastic sound signature and usability.


----------



## FYLegend

Unfortunately there are some issues with Win11 AAC with older Bluetooth devices. It seems to work fine with BT5.0 products like Buds+ and SoundPeats T2, but when I tested it on my BT4.2 Astrotec S60, the left and right channels would change volume differently, with the left bud sounding much lower than the right bud as I decrease the volume. They only sound even at 100% where the sound starts to clip a bit.

It does feel great to finally use the Buds+ with listenable music quality on a Windows PC. Now I am curious if I  should upgrade to the Buds Pro or something else. I still prefer the detail retrieval/treble detail  Buds+ to the warmer sound of the SoundPeats T2 or Earfun Free Pro, for example. Is there any other ANC + ambient no-stem TWS that has a Harman-type sound? (though i would like more bass than Harman)


----------



## tinyman392

jasonb said:


> Unfortunately I think my XM4 may be going back to Best Buy. I can't really stand to wear them. I guess my ears are too small for them because the overall bulbous shape of them feels like they are trying to stretch my ears apart. I only got them Tuesday night so I have another week and a couple days to truly decide, but I don't want to end up stuck with a $300 pair of earbuds that I can't stand to actually use. It's a shame because they do sound really good and I like the features.
> 
> This part circled in red is what seems to be causing the issue for me. No matter how I twist them or how far or not far I insert them this seems to be causing discomfort.


Rotating them forward or backward can help this out in some instances, issues here tend to deal less with insertion depth.


----------



## MichaelScarn

dweaver said:


> Tried running using the Status Between Pro using the original large tips. Lasted less than 2 minutes, returned home and put back on AZ70 tips. The original tips are comfy when sitting but when running they allow the IEM to move to much which is to distracting and annoying.
> 
> Which meant I needed new tips for the Galaxy Buds Pro since that was tips used successfully on that TWS. So grabbed the brand new Sony hybrids tips I had been using on the 1000XM3 and washed them with rubbing alcohol followed by hydrogen peroxide, followed by hot water to remove all oil and have put them on the Galaxy Bud Pros, my hope is that if they have no oil on them they won't slip off like they wanted to do the first time I tried them. I like how they reign in the treble just a smidge.
> 
> ...


Just received the Between Pro’s and gave them a quick listen. For me, they have a better fit then the Melomania Touch and sound at least as good, also considering I didn’t tweak or adjust anything yet. Very happy! Eager to try the Azla tips on them, but for now, without them, they sound wonderful.


----------



## senorbroom

https://www.notebookcheck.net/Samsu...arbuds-revealed-ahead-of-launch.552959.0.html


----------



## assassin10000

Caipirina said:


> They have oval nozzles? I actually have some of those APP foam tips (did not like 'em on the APP), and my Xm4 are supposed to arrive in a few days, fingers crossed



No, the XM4 are Sony's normal sized IEM nozzle (t200 size iirc). 

What I do is I take the foam tips off the APP adapters as they are actually round.

From mfg.:









Small size tips:


----------



## jasonb

tinyman392 said:


> Rotating them forward or backward can help this out in some instances, issues here tend to deal less with insertion depth.


Yea, I've tried rotating and that only helps for a few minutes. They are just putting too much pressure on the lower part of my ears


----------



## KopaneDePooj

Did anyone try these latex eartips?
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005002754850587.html


----------



## howdy

jasonb said:


> Yea, I've tried rotating and that only helps for a few minutes. They are just putting too much pressure on the lower part of my ears


I had that issue to and now that I've worn them so many times there is no more pain.


----------



## Juturna (Aug 1, 2021)

I finally got my hands on a pair of open-box Sony WF-XM4's for $200 and I've just been listening to them for 2 hours or so now and I actually really like them. Wish I just got these instead of the MTW2's right away.

The EQ actually works really well and after taming the bass a tad and trying my best to up the both the treble and the mids by a whole lot I feel like they sound very good. The bass is still a tad too boom-y as it is right now but I kinda like the warmth it's providing too. Will keep trying to find the perfect EQ for me but as a starting point this sounds pretty good and might sound even better
These sound so much better to my ears than the Sennheiser MTW2s, even straight out of the box the experience is night and day, but I think it's a matter of fit too.
ANC is very good with the stock tips which isn't a surprise really, but it also didn't blow me away either. It does the job very well though. Kinda feel like I would want a size XL eartip for my right ear.

As for the negatives? I am missing a bit of clarity in the upper regions and the vocals tend to sound a little boxed in and muted, but I think this is due to the stock tips.
But I also notice that the DSEE Extreme mode is a culprit in that situation, turning it off makes the sound less "full", but it also feels to me like the upper mids and lower treble is a bit sharper (in a good way). I also feel like it's very difficult hearing the reverb on certain songs where some other earbuds I have probably would be way more revealing.

Another negative for me is that even though I feel like they're honestly pretty comfortable in my ears for the MOST part, I can tell that they would ideally go a bit deeper in my ear canal, because if i try to rotate them slightly forward/upward in my ears I can tell that it sounds a lot better in the treble region, but it also hurts like effing crazy trying to do this.
I think it hurts more than it should too because of the Earfun Free Pro OEs honestly wrecking my ears a bit, despite being very small I keep wanting a deeper fit than they were probably meant to do, or at least deeper than it fits my ears.

Also missing a bit of headroom to be honest. I will listen to these on the highest or second-to-highest volume when my other earbuds I'm more like 65-75% of the volume. But it's only a minor gripe, it's definitely good enough, especially with the noise cancellation being as good as it is.
Also, I got the silver color and I actually think it's okay even though I would've preferred a more cream-white/beige color sort of like the Edifier TWS1 Pro. But the way it gets discolored is NO JOKE. Took it out of my jeans pocket now and already after two hours I saw some discoloration. I was able to clean most of it off, but it's definitely more than what I would consider just being "dirty".

I think these sound very good, and they're a pretty substantial improvement over the XM3's in my opinion as a whole package, but mostly because the XM3's really weren't my cup of tea. I think these are probably the best "all-rounder" earbud right now, even if there might be a few that sounds a bit better and has a bit more clarity and a slightly tighter bass response etc. The case is reasonably sized, they don't stick out too much in the ears and they stay in place a whole lot better than the XM3's and yeah. I like them so far anyway.


----------



## jasonb

howdy said:


> I had that issue to and now that I've worn them so many times there is no more pain.



I'm not taking them back quite yet. I'll spend a few more days trying.


----------



## jasonb

Juturna said:


> I finally got my hands on a pair of open-box Sony WF-XM4's for $200 and I've just been listening to them for 2 hours or so now and I actually really like them. Wish I just got these instead of the MTW2's right away.
> 
> The EQ actually works really well and after taming the bass a tad and trying my best to up the both the treble and the mids by a whole lot I feel like they sound very good. The bass is still a tad too boom-y as it is right now but I kinda like the warmth it's providing too. Will keep trying to find the perfect EQ for me but as a starting point this sounds pretty good and might sound even better
> These sound so much better to my ears than the Sennheiser MTW2s, even straight out of the box the experience is night and day, but I think it's a matter of fit too.
> ...



I didn't read the entire post, it's kind of long, but try some silicone tips.


----------



## dweaver

MichaelScarn said:


> Just received the Between Pro’s and gave them a quick listen. For me, they have a better fit then the Melomania Touch and sound at least as good, also considering I didn’t tweak or adjust anything yet. Very happy! Eager to try the Azla tips on them, but for now, without them, they sound wonderful.


The AZ70 tips I am using is a wide mouth tip similar to the spiral dot tip. This works well for me but I have big lug holes for ear canals. It does make them a bit harder to ensure they are seated properly in the charging can though I have had 2 instances where they did not turn off properly.


----------



## tinyman392

howdy said:


> I had that issue to and now that I've worn them so many times there is no more pain.


I had a similar issue with the Audeze Euclid.  Though that normally took at least an hour to get to the pain part.  A mix of adjusting them and getting used to it has gotten rid of the pain though.


----------



## dweaver (Aug 1, 2021)

Darn Between Pro just stole the BT connection from the Galaxy Buds Pro even though they are in the case. Might have to see if I can find a slightly softer tip. the way they lie in the case makes them sensitive to a wider big tip, I suspect foams tips might never work properly in the case.

So a knock on the Between Pro added to the tricky removal of the IEM from the case. I also find the lid feels a bit flimsy when opening kind of just flings open.

For hard guitar driven rock I find the GBuds Pro have more guitar energy than the Status Between Pro so I tend to like the GBuds Pro a bit better. The Between Pro is also good but just a bit warmer making them a bit relaxed sounding. Nothing as egregious as the 1000XM3 which is way to warm and relaxed for this type of music but they are a step back from the GBuds Pro for that type of music.

Edit: have to inject a note here. The difference for hard rock and bands like Kansas is pretty stark. I switched to the Between Pro while listening to 2 Kansas albums and the GBuds sound vastly superior for every song. This may be due to the instruments or the way these albums are produced but they just don't sound right unless they have a neutral signature, adding warmth just takes the energy out of the music. So if this type of music is what you listen to the most the GBuds Pro are a much better match.

From a music perspective alone the GBuds are the better all round performer if you prefer a closer to neutral signature that has no coloration in the midrange. the Status Between Pro is the better all rounder if you prefer a bigger bass presence and a slightly warmer midrange. The difference in signatures also affects the imaging and sound stage giving the edge in that area to the Status Between Pro.

I honestly have a hard time saying which I prefer more as I find both extremely good and affected by my mood, song choices, and environment. I tend to reach for the Between when listening to Jazz and classical anything, and the GBuds Pro when listening to hard rock.

Both TWS are comfy for me when I have the right tips attached and as is often the case with IEMs I find myself unsatisfied with the stock tips with both models.


----------



## CocaCola15 (Aug 1, 2021)

dweaver said:


> Tried running using the Status Between Pro using the original large tips. Lasted less than 2 minutes, returned home and put back on AZ70 tips. The original tips are comfy when sitting but when running they allow the IEM to move to much which is to distracting and annoying.
> 
> Which meant I needed new tips for the Galaxy Buds Pro since that was tips used successfully on that TWS. So grabbed the brand new Sony hybrids tips I had been using on the 1000XM3 and washed them with rubbing alcohol followed by hydrogen peroxide, followed by hot water to remove all oil and have put them on the Galaxy Bud Pros, my hope is that if they have no oil on them they won't slip off like they wanted to do the first time I tried them. I like how they reign in the treble just a smidge.
> 
> ...


Need to give mine some more ear time. I haven't been using BT in-ears much lately (due to less walking alone for exercise, my wife and I doing more of that together since our 14-year-old Brittany spaniel, Lily, passed a couple of weeks back. . ). But I also want to try some other tips, I have so many on hand. But I agree in that they are best used at home, not bouncing around. Time for a listening session right now. And I also agree, they respond best with acoustic/classical/jazz as the genres.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

Hmm @PeteSTRADAMUS I think you were onto something with the XELASTEC on those Falcon Pro...

​
Might have even been able to benefit from going with the Small over the MS, but this is one no-kidding confident fit. I thought the EPro were grippy, but man...this is on a whole other level. Have to imagine you're not having any slipping issues with these tips.

Also seems to pull some of that extra lower bass out of the equation, making the overall FR much more balanced to my ears. Win-win.


----------



## CocaCola15

miserybeforethemusic said:


> You might be a good candidate for the FITS, then. I think its ability to image is a nice step up from the Status and the lack of extra bass opens everything up a ton. Have a feeling they'll end up being market competitors with the Between Pro if UE could ever figure out what pricing they want to keep. Looks like it's down to $200 this weekend.


As I mentioned a few pages back, my wife, not a headphone junkie, loves the Fits. Adores them. She was using an old and wired pair, Klipsch X10s, and is amazed how easy it was to get the right fit. And thanks for your help on that, misery. $200? Tempted, but I am fighting the urge and sticking with the CA models and the Between Pros for now.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

CocaCola15 said:


> As I mentioned a few pages back, my wife, not a headphone junkie, loves the Fits. Adores them. She was using an old and wired pair, Klipsch X10s, and is amazed how easy it was to get the right fit. And thanks for your help on that, misery. $200? Tempted, but I am fighting the urge and sticking with the CA models and the Between Pros for now.


We've talked about it before; get 'em if/when they go down to $160 or less again. That's a fantastic price. $200 is nice, but still a bit much considering the lack of additional features. It's definitely a more sound-focused TWS, but that's not necessarily a bad thing.


----------



## clerkpalmer

miserybeforethemusic said:


> We've talked about it before; get 'em if/when they go down to $160 or less again. That's a fantastic price. $200 is nice, but still a bit much considering the lack of additional features. It's definitely a more sound-focused TWS, but that's not necessarily a bad thing.


Not available until end of August? Bummer.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

clerkpalmer said:


> Not available until end of August? Bummer.


Wow, really? That's interesting. Wonder if they're being phased out; have to imagine it's not cheap for them to keep these things around if they're not moving much. UE, if you're lurking, any insight as to the 1-month delay?

If I had to guess, they're probably short on supply for the tips. Those seem to be the hardest thing for them to keep in stock at the moment and I'd imagine it has to do with the form-fitting gel.


----------



## BigZ12

jasonb said:


> Yea, I've tried rotating and that only helps for a few minutes. They are just putting too much pressure on the lower part of my ears


Try the Flex foam tips you got with your Tevis. Shorter than most, which made the XM4 very comfortable for me. Sounds very good as well. (I had to use the large ones)


----------



## clerkpalmer

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Wow, really? That's interesting. Wonder if they're being phased out; have to imagine it's not cheap for them to keep these things around if they're not moving much. UE, if you're lurking, any insight as to the 1-month delay?
> 
> If I had to guess, they're probably short on supply for the tips. Those seem to be the hardest thing for them to keep in stock at the moment and I'd imagine it has to do with the form-fitting gel.


I may not have been understanding properly. Referring to the between pro. 149 on preorder. Ships 8/31


----------



## jasonb

BigZ12 said:


> Try the Flex foam tips you got with your Tevis. Shorter than most, which made the XM4 very comfortable for me. Sounds very good as well. (I had to use the large ones)



I really don't think tips are the problem or are going to make a difference. My issue isn't with the nozzle or anything to do with my earholes. It's the little bulbous part under the nozzle.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic (Aug 1, 2021)

clerkpalmer said:


> I may not have been understanding properly. Referring to the between pro. 149 on preorder. Ships 8/31


Oh! Yeah, totally misunderstood. Pretty sure I got a backer update last week talking about the next range of Indiegogo order numbers they were catching up on, so that wouldn't surprise me.

Checked UE's site and it looks like grey's the only available color left, lilac is on a 4-6 week backorder, and black's marked as completely sold out. Might be end of life...


jasonb said:


> I really don't think tips are the problem or are going to make a difference. My issue isn't with the nozzle or anything to do with my earholes. It's the little bulbous part under the nozzle.


Yeah, hotspots like that are really tough to ignore. Sorry, meant to address that earlier, but I don't think there _is_ a way around that continuing to be a problem. It's a similar problem I still have from time to time with the JBLs; unfortunate by-product of these ABS cases.


----------



## clerkpalmer

Anyone using the new Beats tws? Are they worth the 150 asking price? Something to beat on and sweat all over? Do they fit as well as they appear they should?


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

clerkpalmer said:


> Anyone using the new Beats tws? Are they worth the 150 asking price? Something to beat on and sweat all over? Do they fit as well as they appear they should?


I don't remember if anybody besides @erockg ended up getting them. Think he mentioned they were a more intelligent version of the consumer tune, which would lead me to believe it's going to be somewhat close to the ADV tonally, probably with a sub-bass and lower bass boost (relatively speaking).


----------



## clerkpalmer

miserybeforethemusic said:


> I don't remember if anybody besides @erockg ended up getting them. Think he mentioned they were a more intelligent version of the consumer tune, which would lead me to believe it's going to be somewhat close to the ADV tonally, probably with a sub-bass and lower bass boost (relatively speaking).


As you can tell, I have the itch. Maybe I’ll give em a spin …


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

clerkpalmer said:


> As you can tell, I have the itch. Maybe I’ll give em a spin …


Funny enough, I haven't seen anything in the TWS space that grabs me recently. At this point, I keep the following in rotation and on the desk:

UE FITS
AZ70W
Falcon Pro
Melomania Touch
Elite 85T
My son now has the Between Pro and he seems to be identifying the same points of frustration I have with them regarding the in-between fit with stock tips and the awkward insertion/removal technique required to even get them out of the case. I will say, though, that he left the MW07 GO down here weeks ago and hasn't even come looking for them, so perhaps that's a good indicator of how he feels about them overall.

Personally, I can't stand having to do the Konami code just to factory reset the MW07, so even I haven't reached back for them. Eventually, I suppose, though I do have to admit this album is _fantastic_ on the AZ70W with ANC on. Just gobs of stinky bass from those synths and it's so much fun:


----------



## clerkpalmer

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Funny enough, I haven't seen anything in the TWS space that grabs me recently. At this point, I keep the following in rotation and on the desk:
> 
> UE FITS
> AZ70W
> ...



Not much exciting I agree. I ordered the Beats. I had some Amazon points anyway. But it seems like a poor decision by me since I’ll be switching to a Fold 3 this month so AAC is likely to sound like crap.  I’ll compare them the my CA Touch for sq.


----------



## Knightsfan11

miserybeforethemusic said:


> For the EA75t, I like the EPro TW00. Case-compatible and narrow enough so the buds don't bulge out of my ears. Stays fairly true to the stock signature.
> 
> Interesting you could even get the XELASTEC to make purchase on the EA75t's nozzle. I thought they had a 5mm ID and it just would have fallen off. Fwiw, I think the AZLA Crystal were a decent pairing and should work in the case as well. The EPro should be cheaper.


How are the crystals different to the Xelastec tips? I've ordered some Mifo foam tips which are compatible with the Jabra's, because the Xelastec are getting stuck in my ears when removing the earphones. Easy enough to remove, but not something I want to keep doing.

I was planning on buying the new Sony XM4's, but I'm damn happy with the sound change.


----------



## Knightsfan11

senorbroom said:


> Can you use a scalpel to reduce the length of the nozzle attachment on the Xelastecs?


I'd rather not play around with the tips.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic (Aug 1, 2021)

Knightsfan11 said:


> How are the crystals different to the Xelastec tips? I've ordered some Mifo foam tips which are compatible with the Jabra's, because the Xelastec are getting stuck in my ears when removing the earphones. Easy enough to remove, but not something I want to keep doing.
> 
> I was planning on buying the new Sony XM4's, but I'm damn happy with the sound change.


The Crystal are made out of LSR (liquid silicone rubber?) vice PTFE (polytetrafluoroethylene...it's a plastic), so it doesn't have the same forming properties of the XELASTEC tips, but they do retain the same amount of grip. Additionally, the shroud on the XELASTEC tips surround the outer perimeter of the nozzle a bit more. They'd be a better bet if you're looking for something with good deep insertion properties; the Crystal seems better suited to just block the ear canal vice fill it.

Pretty sure I have the same Mifo 85t tips. Word of caution: careful when you're stretching the tips around the nozzle; that foam tends to tear pretty easily. Luckily, the seller was willing to replace the foams I tore during application, but can't say that'll be the case every time.

Additionally, the XELASTEC are a standard 5mm ID bore vs the Crystal TWS' more, well, TWS-friendly 3mm (I think...it's skinny enough to work with the original Noble Falcon and Jabra EA75t).

Crystal:




XELASTEC:


----------



## Knightsfan11

miserybeforethemusic said:


> The Crystal are made out of silicone vice PTFE, so it doesn't have the same forming properties of the XELASTEC tips. Additionally, the shroud on the XELASTEC tips surround the outer perimeter of the nozzle a bit more. They'd be a better bet if you're looking for something with good deep insertion properties; the Crystal seems better suited to just block the ear canal vice fill it.
> 
> Pretty sure I have the same Mifo 85t tips. Word of caution: careful when you're stretching the tips around the nozzle; that foam tends to tear pretty easily. Luckily, the seller was willing to replace the foams I tore during application, but can't say that'll be the case every time.


Thanks for the info.
I ordered the Upgraded Memory Foam Ear Tips for True Wireless Earbuds. I was going to buy Comply tips for the Jabra's, but doesn't seem the Australian site sells them, so would have to buy from the US.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

Knightsfan11 said:


> Thanks for the info.
> I ordered the Upgraded Memory Foam Ear Tips for True Wireless Earbuds. I was going to buy Comply tips for the Jabra's, but doesn't seem the Australian site sells them, so would have to buy from the US.


The ones that come with a bunch of clear plastic rings, right? If so, I have those, but ended up going back to the stock ones pretty quickly. Didn't like that you basically have to tear off an earbud foam, use that plastic ring as a baffle, and stretch a core-less foam tip over all of that. It's really awkward to do on the 85t, but thankfully the seller did provide a link to an install video that helped a ton.

Still good out there, by the way? Some of our media's starting to talk about how things are going down under.


----------



## Knightsfan11

miserybeforethemusic said:


> The ones that come with a bunch of clear plastic rings, right? If so, I have those, but ended up going back to the stock ones pretty quickly. Didn't like that you basically have to tear off an earbud foam, use that plastic ring as a baffle, and stretch a core-less foam tip over all of that. It's really awkward to do on the 85t, but thankfully the seller did provide a link to an install video that helped a ton.
> 
> Still good out there, by the way? Some of our media's starting to talk about how things are going down under.


I only ordered them yesterday, so yet to receive them.

I'm in Sydney, we have been under lockdown for 5 weeks now. Only essential shops are open, such as Supermarkets, restaurants for take away, cafes etc. The government didn't have a sense of urgency in getting the population vaccinated, until now that the current Delta strain outbreak can't be maintained. 

We are up to the 200 new cases a day mark in Sydney, have only had a few deaths, all older people.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

Knightsfan11 said:


> I only ordered them yesterday, so yet to receive them.
> 
> I'm in Sydney, we have been under lockdown for 5 weeks now. Only essential shops are open, such as Supermarkets, restaurants for take away, cafes etc. The government didn't have a sense of urgency in getting the population vaccinated, until now that the current Delta strain outbreak can't be maintained.
> 
> We are up to the 200 new cases a day mark in Sydney, have only had a few deaths, all older people.


Sadly, I don't think any ramp-up of administering that mRNA treatment is going to help do anything at this point but promote further mutations. If Delta is this bad, I'd rather not have a gamma, delta, epsilon, or zeta strain, either. Have to let my science nerd colors fly a little bit, but just about everything regarding this rollout has been botched and it really makes me regret the industry I chose to be in, but helps me understand that it'd be far worse off if there weren't people like me in it. That's not meant to be a humble brag; I take my responsibilities with quality assurance very seriously. That being said, I'm nobody's doctor and I don't know your medical history, so please don't listen to me without doing your own homework and certainly don't take my medical advice prima facie. Some of us still care about the scientific method more than peer review, which means we have to be open to criticism, too.

Gosh, I'm sorry to hear that's going on. Truth be told, I usually look to see what happens there as a weathervane for what will eventually happen here; history tends to indicate we follow you (to an extent). I hope that, at the very least, the post keeps moving for you so those tips can come in. They're definitely comfortable; just not my thing.


----------



## Knightsfan11

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Sadly, I don't think any ramp-up of administering that mRNA treatment is going to help do anything at this point but promote further mutations. If Delta is this bad, I'd rather not have a gamma, delta, epsilon, or zeta strain, either. Have to let my science nerd colors fly a little bit, but just about everything regarding this rollout has been botched and it really makes me regret the industry I chose to be in, but helps me understand that it'd be far worse off if there weren't people like me in it. That's not meant to be a humble brag; I take my responsibilities with quality assurance very seriously. That being said, I'm nobody's doctor and I don't know your medical history, so please don't listen to me without doing your own homework and certainly don't take my medical advice prima facie. Some of us still care about the scientific method more than peer review, which means we have to be open to criticism, too.
> 
> Gosh, I'm sorry to hear that's going on. Truth be told, I usually look to see what happens there as a weathervane for what will eventually happen here; history tends to indicate we follow you (to an extent). I hope that, at the very least, the post keeps moving for you so those tips can come in. They're definitely comfortable; just not my thing.


The government provided a road map out of lockdown last week, with the big one being 80% of the population vaccinated before we can begin to travel freely & overseas. 70% vaccinated before we can basically lift restrictions. I fully expect government to continue implementing restrictions as new strains become apparent. It really is a crap show & has shown government up for being as incompetent as they are.

We did well last year in controlling the initial outbreak & got lucky a few times through the year in avoiding any major outbreaks, though Melbourne went through a tough period.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

Knightsfan11 said:


> The government provided a road map out of lockdown last week, with the big one being 80% of the population vaccinated before we can begin to travel freely & overseas. 70% vaccinated before we can basically lift restrictions. I fully expect government to continue implementing restrictions as new strains become apparent. It really is a crap show & has shown government up for being as incompetent as they are.
> 
> We did well last year in controlling the initial outbreak & got lucky a few times through the year in avoiding any major outbreaks, though Melbourne went through a tough period.


Yeah! You and NZ were doing great last year. Singapore, too. I think we're just too reactionary at this point and fail to think about the long-term. Maybe it's a could vs should argument, I don't know.

What I do know is we've got each other, despite whatever physical barriers pop up in between. Really believe that sense of community is going to be what keeps us all together in the end, especially since trust just seems to be eroding everywhere. Even if it doesn't always come across, or someone wants me to just shut it after the 40th thread post in one day, understand I'm grateful for all of you (even the trolls). A lot of us might have been much worse off if we didn't at least have the ability to socialize here.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

I am positively smitten with these dang tips! The way they tighten up that bass is just so nice and it feels like the isolation puts the stock EPro tips to shame, but this is a quiet house, so not the best environment to verify that.

Regardless, new favorite combo and enough so for me to willingly..._willingly_ say that they help push the Falcon Pro up to the top spot for SQ, potentially over the FITS...depends on what signature I'm after.

They _finally_ sound like a $300 earphone.


----------



## jsmiller58

miserybeforethemusic said:


> I am positively smitten with these dang tips! The way they tighten up that bass is just so nice and it feels like the isolation puts the stock EPro tips to shame, but this is a quiet house, so not the best environment to verify that.
> 
> Regardless, new favorite combo and enough so for me to willingly..._willingly_ say that they help push the Falcon Pro up to the top spot for SQ, potentially over the FITS...depends on what signature I'm after.
> 
> They _finally_ sound like a $300 earphone.


Really nice sentiment, and I agree - socializing here is a (mental) life saver, even if most of the time I just lurk… Work video conference calls and emails are not cutting it for me.  

So, the Falcons and the Fits are all that?  Hmmm…. I have that itch…. Which for SQ?  Do they have apps?  ANC would be nice, but I have XM4 and Amazon v2s for that…


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

jsmiller58 said:


> Really nice sentiment, and I agree - socializing here is a (mental) life saver, even if most of the time I just lurk… Work video conference calls and emails are not cutting it for me.
> 
> So, the Falcons and the Fits are all that?  Hmmm…. I have that itch…. Which for SQ?  Do they have apps?  ANC would be nice, but I have XM4 and Amazon v2s for that…


Honest answer? What are you after?

They're both really good. If you want more isolation, go Falcon Pro + XELASTEC. That feels like a soundbooth when you're indoors (in a good way). The UEs give you a bit more environment awareness, but also means more unwanted stuff can leak in, too. The FITS lock into place, single-handed, and effortlessly. The Falcon Pro take a bit more work and two hands. Probably means I need to try a half-size down. Sonically, the FITS feel way more open and diffused. Sounds have razor-sharp focus on the FP, but more out in space ("over there") on the FITS.

Both have apps with about an equal amount of usability. The Falcon app on my phone (running Android 11) is pretty frustrating to use. It doesn't always connect at first; usually takes me multiple attempts, but the app isn't needed for sound output, so I usually just don't mess with it. EQ is graphic and there's a manually-adjustable preamp, but it's meant to give you more range of volume control, so reductive only. FITS' app is more iFriendly (if that makes sense). Not every menu is intuitively located, but you can figure out where everything is after a couple days. EQ isn't as easy to use as Noble's, but I also don't feel it needs any adjustment. Neither do, at this point.

They're both great, imo, just differently so.


----------



## jsmiller58

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Honest answer? What are you after?
> 
> They're both really good. If you want more isolation, go Falcon Pro + XELASTEC. That feels like a soundbooth when you're indoors (in a good way). The UEs give you a bit more environment awareness, but also means more unwanted stuff can leak in, too. The FITS lock into place, single-handed, and effortlessly. The Falcon Pro take a bit more work and two hands. Probably means I need to try a half-size down. Sonically, the FITS feel way more open and diffused. Sounds have razor-sharp focus on the FP, but more out in space ("over there") on the FITS.
> 
> ...


Thanks!


----------



## SynaestheticA

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Well this is interesting...


That eartip fabric and shape give me ptsd.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

SynaestheticA said:


> That eartip fabric and shape give me ptsd.


Why?


----------



## webvan

Still happy with my Sabbat X12s for running (ZERO thump) after 2+ years but the Samsung Galaxy Buds Live have dropped in price (70€ on Amazon.de) so I'm...tempted. Is there any advantage to using them for running over the X12s ? If not fur running would they be better for cycling thanks to their ANC ? The X12s are ok when climbing but as soon as the speed picks up the music is really drowned by wind noise  Thanks !


----------



## Aevum

isnt the live the "beans" ?

The ANC dosnt work and they have zero isolation, i would avoid them.


----------



## Juturna

I've noticed that part of my ear has gotten misshaped since using a bit larger earbuds, that feels... idk, not great? My tragus definitely used to sit more "flush" with the rest of the ears instead of going a bit more out from the ear, also the very tip of the tragus looks different to me as well. Bet i'm destroying my ears for any future earbuds that are smaller so everything will just fall out lmao.


----------



## chinmie

webvan said:


> Still happy with my Sabbat X12s for running (ZERO thump) after 2+ years but the Samsung Galaxy Buds Live have dropped in price (70€ on Amazon.de) so I'm...tempted. Is there any advantage to using them for running over the X12s ? If not fur running would they be better for cycling thanks to their ANC ? The X12s are ok when climbing but as soon as the speed picks up the music is really drowned by wind noise  Thanks !


the buds live ANC is so nonexistent that i never turn them on.. they do increase the bass quantity in ANC mode, so might help a little. 

it does sound good when using them for walking, though haven't tried them for biking yet.. i might try them riding motorcycle at slow speed tomorrow to emulate bike riding and see if there's wind noise


----------



## clerkpalmer

Looks like Klipsch has a new ANC offering. The McClaren edition looks pretty nice. AAC only? Some new tech on board including drivers, digital processing and head gestures. How did these originally sound?  Any reason to try these?

https://www.engadget.com/klipsch-t5-ii-anc-true-wireless-earbuds-announced-130001664.html


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

clerkpalmer said:


> Looks like Klipsch has a new ANC offering. The McClaren edition looks pretty nice. AAC only? Some new tech on board including drivers, digital processing and head gestures. How did these originally sound?  Any reason to try these?
> 
> https://www.engadget.com/klipsch-t5-ii-anc-true-wireless-earbuds-announced-130001664.html


I only saw feedback from the big tech channels, so really not sure where they end up tonally. Seems like they and JBL tend to fall into similar veins these days with an affinity for the Harman target.

That X12 was a bit of an outlier and reminded me a lot more of the legacy Klipsch sound. Their new stuff sounds somewhat like JBL's old house sound did, at least as far as loudspeakers go.


----------



## clerkpalmer

miserybeforethemusic said:


> I only saw feedback from the big tech channels, so really not sure where they end up tonally. Seems like they and JBL tend to fall into similar veins these days with an affinity for the Harman target.
> 
> That X12 was a bit of an outlier and reminded me a lot more of the legacy Klipsch sound. Their new stuff sounds somewhat like JBL's old house sound did, at least as far as loudspeakers go.


Tempted to give them a try but they feel behind the curve tech wise for that price. Would need to make up for it with tonality and fit.


----------



## CJYYZ

miserybeforethemusic said:


> I am positively smitten with these dang tips! The way they tighten up that bass is just so nice and it feels like the isolation puts the stock EPro tips to shame, but this is a quiet house, so not the best environment to verify that.
> 
> Regardless, new favorite combo and enough so for me to willingly..._willingly_ say that they help push the Falcon Pro up to the top spot for SQ, potentially over the FITS...depends on what signature I'm after.
> 
> They _finally_ sound like a $300 earphone.


What tips are they? XELASTEC? Crystal? Or something else?


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

CJYYZ said:


> What tips are they? XELASTEC? Crystal? Or something else?


Those are the XELASTEC. The Falcon Pro has a 5mm nozzle, so it takes regular IEM tips. Means you have a lot of options there


----------



## clerkpalmer

clerkpalmer said:


> Tempted to give them a try but they feel behind the curve tech wise for that price. Would need to make up for it with tonality and fit.


Ordered. Will give them a run. Some of the tech looks intriguing.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

clerkpalmer said:


> Ordered. Will give them a run. Some of the tech looks intriguing.


Hope they surprise you in a good way! I think PSB also made a TWS (seems a lot of the speaker manufacturers are jumping in on the crazy now), but have no word on whether it's worth its asking price. It's not a budget offering, that's for sure, but the M4u was a pretty solid set of over-ears.

That McLaren edition of the T5 II is a looker, though. Really like the case. This one, too. Reminds me of a zippo lighter.


----------



## clerkpalmer

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Hope they surprise you in a good way! I think PSB also made a TWS (seems a lot of the speaker manufacturers are jumping in on the crazy now), but have no word on whether it's worth its asking price. It's not a budget offering, that's for sure, but the M4u was a pretty solid set of over-ears.
> 
> That McLaren edition of the T5 II is a looker, though. Really like the case. This one, too. Reminds me of a zippo lighter.


I had the PSB tws years ago. It had really nice sound at the time. I think we later discovered it was a knock off of sorts but the tuning may have been different. I’m not expecting much but they look more interesting than the beats. For 300 (I skipped the Mclaren) they will need to be excellent or back they go.


----------



## erockg

clerkpalmer said:


> Looks like Klipsch has a new ANC offering. The McClaren edition looks pretty nice. AAC only? Some new tech on board including drivers, digital processing and head gestures. How did these originally sound?  Any reason to try these?
> 
> https://www.engadget.com/klipsch-t5-ii-anc-true-wireless-earbuds-announced-130001664.html


I had the T5 IIs and pre-ordered the new ANC McClaren version.  They have the Bragi OS built in.  I was a HUGE fan of the Bragi Dash Pro and loved all the head gesture tech.  If Klipsch and Bragi managed to implement it well, these could be insane.


----------



## Tommy C

I might be living under a rock but I just discovered the SoundID app and it’s pretty neat. Gives you the ability to manipulate the sound on your TWS (or wired headphones) based on your hearing test after so completing the the sound test a profile is created. You also have the the ability to eq your device even if the TWS has no app and equalizer. I really hate to admit but the Monster Inspiration 700 ANC that I got from Amazon out of curiosity since it was o. Sale sounds super nice now after some tweaks and tip rolling and sounds very very similar to the Creative Aurvana Live! That I used to love but just with more sparkle at the top and more lush mids.


----------



## clerkpalmer

erockg said:


> I had the T5 IIs and pre-ordered the new ANC McClaren version.  They have the Bragi OS built in.  I was a HUGE fan of the Bragi Dash Pro and loved all the head gesture tech.  If Klipsch and Bragi managed to implement it well, these could be insane.


Damn you’re making me wish I went mclaren! But the price after tax was off putting. I was right there with you with the Dash. Loved em.


----------



## webvan

chinmie said:


> the buds live ANC is so nonexistent that i never turn them on.. they do increase the bass quantity in ANC mode, so might help a little.
> 
> it does sound good when using them for walking, though haven't tried them for biking yet.. i might try them riding motorcycle at slow speed tomorrow to emulate bike riding and see if there's wind noise


Thanks, looking forward to reading your feedback. I think that wind noise is going to be unavoidable for an open/earbud design though as the "air flow" that lets you hear what's going on will just increase with speed.

I've stopped using the little foam sleeves with the X12s as they kept humidity and the charging contacts got corroded. I finally managed to clean them but now the sound isn't as good as the move around a bit. Will try to reuse them maybe by removing them each time to let them dry.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

Tommy C said:


> I might be living under a rock but I just discovered the SoundID app and it’s pretty neat. Gives you the ability to manipulate the sound on your TWS (or wired headphones) based on your hearing test after so completing the the sound test a profile is created. You also have the the ability to eq your device even if the TWS has no app and equalizer. I really hate to admit but the Monster Inspiration 700 ANC that I got from Amazon out of curiosity since it was o. Sale sounds super nice now after some tweaks and tip rolling and sounds very very similar to the Creative Aurvana Live! That I used to love but just with more sparkle at the top and more lush mids.


Nice! Sonarworks has always been a bit of an interesting company and their SoundID profiles are pretty spot-on for adjusting to studio curves. Similar tech is baked into the Jabra app for use with the EA75t/Elite 85t and I've also seen it used with the Soundcore Liberty Air Pro 2.


----------



## CJYYZ

I'm surprised that other than erockg and maybe one other person on this thread, no one else has tried/commented on the Lypertek Z7s. Especially since Headfonia has recommended them on their TWS list. Lypertek may not be a big name in this crazy competitive market, but their short track record has been pretty impressive overall with the Tevi/Z3s. I personally love the Z7s, but this is my first foray into the TWS world. So compared to everyone else's experience on here, I'm a toddler in a room full of black belt martial artists. That being said, I give them two pudgy little thumbs up!


----------



## assassin10000

webvan said:


> Still happy with my Sabbat X12s for running (ZERO thump) after 2+ years but the Samsung Galaxy Buds Live have dropped in price (70€ on Amazon.de) so I'm...tempted. Is there any advantage to using them for running over the X12s ? If not fur running would they be better for cycling thanks to their ANC ? The X12s are ok when climbing but as soon as the speed picks up the music is really drowned by wind noise  Thanks !


Given how much more tucked into the ears the Buds Live/Beans are, I would hope for a big improvement (reduction) in wind noise. But I can't say for sure.


chinmie said:


> the buds live ANC is so nonexistent that i never turn them on.. they do increase the bass quantity in ANC mode, so might help a little.
> 
> it does sound good when using them for walking, though haven't tried them for biking yet.. i might try them riding motorcycle at slow speed tomorrow to emulate bike riding and see if there's wind noise


↑ but he'll be able too.


----------



## bronco1015

Apparently Anheuser-Bush put the Budwiser name on a pair of TWS...wow.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B093X5MYCT?th=1


----------



## TK33

webvan said:


> Still happy with my Sabbat X12s for running (ZERO thump) after 2+ years but the Samsung Galaxy Buds Live have dropped in price (70€ on Amazon.de) so I'm...tempted. Is there any advantage to using them for running over the X12s ? If not fur running would they be better for cycling thanks to their ANC ? The X12s are ok when climbing but as soon as the speed picks up the music is really drowned by wind noise  Thanks !


I use the Galaxy Buds Live for cycling primarily because of their lack of noise cancelling.  I ride a road bike in NY so I need to be able to hear my surroundings. I do start to get wind noise at 15-16 mph though but not sure if there is a better solution. Let's me hear my GPS and calls.


----------



## clerkpalmer

CJYYZ said:


> I'm surprised that other than erockg and maybe one other person on this thread, no one else has tried/commented on the Lypertek Z7s. Especially since Headfonia has recommended them on their TWS list. Lypertek may not be a big name in this crazy competitive market, but their short track record has been pretty impressive overall with the Tevi/Z3s. I personally love the Z7s, but this is my first foray into the TWS world. So compared to everyone else's experience on here, I'm a toddler in a room full of black belt martial artists. That being said, I give them two pudgy little thumbs up!


These look interesting. 149 on Amazon today and I’ve got 113 in points. The form factor looks awful though.  Looks like sq should be stellar. Does Samsung implement aptx adaptive?


----------



## Tommy C

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Nice! Sonarworks has always been a bit of an interesting company and their SoundID profiles are pretty spot-on for adjusting to studio curves. Similar tech is baked into the Jabra app for use with the EA75t/Elite 85t and I've also seen it used with the Soundcore Liberty Air Pro 2.


I knew Soundcore was using Sonarworks but didn't know Jabra does as well as I just have their older model. What's nice about the app is that you could apply it on many other TWS.
It's not perfect by no means but another thing to fiddle around with to get better sq.

Also, and I'm sure you will find it interesting, after doing some digging, I have found that the Monster Inspiration 700 is sharing similar design and tech with other TWS (surprise, surprise eh?) with Cleer Audio Alley Plus, Monolith M-TWE and Tronsmart Apollo Bold as they all use very similar shells and the Qualcomm QCC5124 chip.
you know what else has the Qualcomm QCC5124 chip? The Qudelix 5K that you had recommended me


----------



## CocaCola15

Could … not … resist. Ordered the UE Fits. Ended up at $174 with 25% discount to get on their mailing list (will direct it to my junk folder). Downside, 4-6 week waitlist for black.


----------



## davidcotton

TK33 said:


> I use the Galaxy Buds Live for cycling primarily because of their lack of noise cancelling.  I ride a road bike in NY so I need to be able to hear my surroundings. I do start to get wind noise at 15-16 mph though but not sure if there is a better solution. Let's me hear my GPS and calls.


Go slower on the bike ?


----------



## davidcotton

CocaCola15 said:


> Could … not … resist. Ordered the UE Fits. Ended up at $174 with 25% discount to get on their mailing list (will direct it to my junk folder). Downside, 4-6 week waitlist for black.


International dealers coming soon apparently.


----------



## Tommy C

Anyone here is using the Anker Soundcore Liberty Air 2 Pro?
I see $50 off coupon on Amazon Canada which brings the price down quite a bit. 
I hate the form factor, but if they sound good I might be able to bring myself to give them a shot.


----------



## clerkpalmer

davidcotton said:


> Go slower on the bike ?


Nah go faster and turn up the volume. Seriously, get the Garmin Radar system. I wouldn’t ride on a street without it and it lets you use headphones.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

Tommy C said:


> Anyone here is using the Anker Soundcore Liberty Air 2 Pro?
> I see $50 off coupon on Amazon Canada which brings the price down quite a bit.
> I hate the form factor, but if they sound good I might be able to bring myself to give them a shot.


They're decent. Pretty generic consumer tune, but the app is great. Should check with my son to see if he even uses his anymore; if not, maybe we can work something out.

Fit's going to be hit/miss. Not everybody's a fan of TWS with stems, but Soundcore's implementation wasn't too bad. $100 is plenty fair for them (what I'm seeing on the US direct site); if you can get them for $50, it's a no-brainer.

Anticipate needing new tips, though. Was not a fan of the stock ones.


----------



## scubaphish (Aug 3, 2021)

clerkpalmer said:


> Looks like Klipsch has a new ANC offering. The McClaren edition looks pretty nice. AAC only? Some new tech on board including drivers, digital processing and head gestures. How did these originally sound?  Any reason to try these?
> 
> https://www.engadget.com/klipsch-t5-ii-anc-true-wireless-earbuds-announced-130001664.html


what makes you say AAC only?
I love the sound of my old G17 sound bar...this is super tempting

Update, now I see where you might have seen it; found this on world wide stereo product page


Bluetooth Specifications:
Version: Bluetooth 5.0
Profiles: A2DP 1.3, AVRCP 1.6, HSP 1.2, HFP 1.7A2DP
Codecs: SBC, AAC®
Range: Up to 10m (33ft.)
Input Rating: 5V DC, 1.0A
Battery Status: iOS & Android


----------



## erockg

clerkpalmer said:


> Damn you’re making me wish I went mclaren! But the price after tax was off putting. I was right there with you with the Dash. Loved em.


I know, it's pricey.  I just didn't want the steel because of scratches.  Hopefully, I have them this week.  Grabbed the Nuratrue buds too.  Testing them out today.


----------



## chinmie

webvan said:


> Thanks, looking forward to reading your feedback. I think that wind noise is going to be unavoidable for an open/earbud design though as the "air flow" that lets you hear what's going on will just increase with speed.
> 
> I've stopped using the little foam sleeves with the X12s as they kept humidity and the charging contacts got corroded. I finally managed to clean them but now the sound isn't as good as the move around a bit. Will try to reuse them maybe by removing them each time to let them dry.



yeah, as nice foams are, in sweaty situations like sports, either i have to take it off and wash them after each exercise, or better not using it altogether. 
By the way, do you still have those X12 rubber sleeves from the package? Those are quite nice for sport. We have to take them off when putting it back to the case, but sure a lot easier to take off and clean compared to foams


----------



## clerkpalmer

erockg said:


> I know, it's pricey.  I just didn't want the steel because of scratches.  Hopefully, I have them this week.  Grabbed the Nuratrue buds too.  Testing them out today.


Your addiction is impressive. Step 1 is admitting you have a problem. I am of course projecting. Interested in your impressions on the Nuras.  The wired BT were interesting to me but it seemed like there were a lotta complaints.


----------



## clerkpalmer

erockg said:


> I know, it's pricey.  I just didn't want the steel because of scratches.  Hopefully, I have them this week.  Grabbed the Nuratrue buds too.  Testing them out today.





clerkpalmer said:


> Your addiction is impressive. Step 1 is admitting you have a problem. I am of course projecting. Interested in your impressions on the Nuras.  The wired BT were interesting to me but it seemed like there were a lotta complaints.


Are those the mw08s I spy? Do share impressions on sq.


----------



## erockg

clerkpalmer said:


> Your addiction is impressive. Step 1 is admitting you have a problem. I am of course projecting. Interested in your impressions on the Nuras.  The wired BT were interesting to me but it seemed like there were a lotta complaints.


Seriously.  I've got a problem.  Tech keeps getting better, then GAS kicks in.  The ANC on the Nuras here at home while my father-in-law is singing some song he's trying to learn about 30 feet away from me is working well while I crank some Maiden.  Whew.  Sound is full, deep bass after you run their personalized sound.  Soundstage is wide.  You have to raise the volume on an iPhone all the was to get them loud.  Fit is great.  Using the included foam tips.  They're very light and I don't notice they're in.  Case is cheap plastic and small.  No wireless charging but they're USB-C.  I loved the Nuraloops, but these lack all the problems of the Loops and IMO, way better.  I'll run them all day and report back if I run into any issues.


----------



## erockg

clerkpalmer said:


> Are those the mw08s I spy? Do share impressions on sq.


I don't notice much, if any difference between them and the regular 08.  But I do love the case, wireless charging and the feel of the new sapphire shell.  Oh, and the included foam tips help with a much better fit in my ears.  They may even help with why I'm noticing a difference in sound, yet I'm sure there's no diff between the 08 and 08S.  I've got the Nuras and the MW08S on deck all day.


----------



## Tommy C (Aug 2, 2021)

clerkpalmer said:


> Your addiction is impressive. Step 1 is admitting you have a problem. I am of course projecting. Interested in your impressions on the Nuras.  The wired BT were interesting to me but it seemed like there were a lotta complaints.


Apparently the NuraTrue also use the Qualcomm QCC5124 chip which I'm currently listening to on the Monster and as @erockg mentioned you need to crank the volume but for me not all the way up.
ANC is solid, not top tier but very useful. Sound is wide with big quality bass, borderline basshead levels but not a cheap consumer type of bass if it makes sense.
Resolution is above average. Not the best but not bad at all and highs after tweaking are perfect from me as I like sparkle but very sensitive to brightness.
Mind you this is for the Monster since it's the same cheap (and oddly very similar housing shape) I'm suspecting the characteristics have some common ground.

EDIT: I'm not too familiar with the tech and how the chips are being implemented but based on my casual experience with some TWS that have the same chips the sounds signature without tweaking was fairly similar so just take what I say with a big grain of salt!


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

Just got the following email update from Status. If anybody is still waiting for their shipment, this might be of use:



Spoiler: Backer Update


----------



## webvan

chinmie said:


> yeah, as nice foams are, in sweaty situations like sports, either i have to take it off and wash them after each exercise, or better not using it altogether.
> By the way, do you still have those X12 rubber sleeves from the package? Those are quite nice for sport. We have to take them off when putting it back to the case, but sure a lot easier to take off and clean compared to foams


Yes I still have them...somewhere but I never used them, primarily because they have to be removed for charging as you mentioned and also because they didn't improve the fit much for me, unlike the foams. I seem to remember they were a bit fiddly too.


----------



## dweaver

Cleaned Sony tips are sticking on my Gbuds Pro really well. Just did a 5K run and the GBuds work awesome. They have very little footfall noise, the screens allow me to have ANC on with little to no wind noise almost zero fiddling once in ear, only had to adjust one bud after finishing the 5K due to excess sweat or in that ear.

It was raining a smidge and zero fear since these are IPX7 rated.


----------



## SynaestheticA

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Why?


Reminds me of the original shaped earbud with that incredibly wide and round shape that never really fit in the ear. And the fabric is like the fabric from the original earbuds that never quite fit in your ear AND constantly came off. Like the ones they gave everyone in computer class in 2002


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

SynaestheticA said:


> Reminds me of the original shaped earbud with that incredibly wide and round shape that never really fit in the ear. And the fabric is like the fabric from the original earbuds that never quite fit in your ear AND constantly came off. Like the ones they gave everyone in computer class in 2002


Game has changed a bit since then and those shells seem really wide. I can safely say those Smabat M2s Pro plop right into my ear and leave absolutely no pressure points. Anywhere. If it weren't for the cable, I wouldn't even know it's there. As for the foams, again, zero pressure points or friction and I still get some pretty good bass and sub-bass.

And these are some of my larger shells, too. They're seriously some fantastic bang-for-buck performers. Based on your past experience, I don't blame you, but might be worth reconsidering.


----------



## Emerald Core

SBC vs AptX tests: 

Many note low sound quality and lack of high frequencies when using the standard SBC Bluetooth codec, which is supported by all headphones and other Bluetooth devices. A common recommendation to get better sound quality is to buy devices and headphones with aptX or LDAC codecs supported. These codecs require licensing fees, so devices with them are more expensive.

*It turns out that the low quality of SBC is caused by artificial limitations of all current Bluetooth stacks and headphones' configuration, and this limitation can be circumvented on any existing devices.
Everyone interested in Bluetooth audio, please take part in high-bitrate SBC compatibility testing on various headphones, receivers, stereo systems, or automotive head units.
If the vast majority of devices work with high bitrates, I will make a patch for Android and send it to AOSP and third-party ROMs, and high quality Bluetooth audio will be available to everyone on any headphones and smartphones, regardless of codecs with licensing fees.


Short technical information about SBC codec*

A2DP specification v1.2, which was active from 2007 to 2015, requires all decoders to work correctly with bitrates up to 512 kbps:


> The decoder of the SNK shall support all possible bitpool values that do not result in the excess of the maximum bit rate. This profile limits the available maximum bit rate to 320kb/s for mono, and 512kb/s for two-channel modes.


In the new version of the specification there is no bitrate limitation. It is assumed that modern headphones released after 2015 with EDR can support bitrates up to 730 kbps.

For some reason, all currently tested Bluetooth stacks (Linux (PulseAudio), Android, Blackberry and macOS) have artificial restrictions of maximum bitpool parameter, which directly affects the maximum bitrate. But this is not the biggest problem, almost all headphones also limit the maximum bitpool value to 53.
As I've already seen in my tests, most devices work fine on a modified Bluetooth stack with a bitrate of 507 kbps, without interrupts and crackling. But such a bitrate will never be negotiated under normal conditions, with stock Bluetooth stacks.

*How to test on a PC*
High bitrate SBC headphone compatibility test is the easiest to perform on the PC with a Bluetooth adapter. I've prepared Ubuntu image with a modified Bluetooth stack, which can be run as in a virtual machine (by connecting Bluetooth adapter as a USB device inside the virtual machine, it also works with the adapters built into the laptops) or by booting from the USB flash drive. This image uses the following profile: Dual Channel, 8 bands, 16 blocks, Loudness, bitpool 2..41, 44.1 kHz, which provides 485 kbps bitrate.


*Why this is important: SBC 328k and 485k vs aptX*
Contrary to popular belief of aptX sound quality, in some cases it can produce worse audio quality than SBC with a standard 328k bitrate.

SBC dynamically allocates quantization bits for frequency bands, acting on a "bottom-to-top" basis. If the whole bitrate was used for the lower and middle frequencies, the upper frequencies are "cut off" (silenced).
aptX quantizes frequency bands with the same number of bits constantly, which makes it a constant bitrate codec: 352 kbps for 44.1 kHz, 384 kbps for 48 kHz. It can't "transfer bits" to frequencies that are mostly needed in them. Unlike SBC, aptX will not "cut" frequencies, but will add quantization noise to them, reducing the dynamic range of audio, and sometimes introducing crackles. SBC, on the contrary, "eats the details" - discards the quietest areas.
On average, compared to SBC 328k, aptX makes less distortion in music with a wide frequency range, but on music with a narrow frequency range and a wide dynamic range SBC 328k sometimes wins.

Let us consider a special case, a piano recording. Here's a spectrogram:




The most energy lies in the 0-4 kHz frequencies, and lasts up to 10 kHz.
The spectrogram of the file aptX file looks like this:




Here is SBC 328k:




It can be seen that the SBC 328k periodically completely cut off the range above 16 kHz, and used all available bitrates for ranges below this value. However, aptX introduced more distortions into the frequency spectrum audible by the human ear, which can be seen on the subtracted original spectrogram from the aptX spectrogram (the brighter, the more distortion):




While the SBC 328k has introduced less distortion the signal in the range from 0 to 10 kHz, and the rest has been сut:




Bitrate 485k for SBC was enough to save the entire frequency range, without cutting off the bands.




SBC 485k on this audio sample is much better than aptX in the range of 0-15 kHz, and with a smaller but still noticeable difference - at 15-22 kHz (the darker, the less distortion):




Switching to a high-bitrate SBC, you will get a sound superior to aptX most of the time, on any headphones.

Full post: https://forum.xda-developers.com/t/...y-on-headphones-without-aptx-or-ldac.3832615/


----------



## JBean

Emerald Core said:


> SBC vs AptX tests:
> 
> Many note low sound quality and lack of high frequencies when using the standard SBC Bluetooth codec, which is supported by all headphones and other Bluetooth devices. A common recommendation to get better sound quality is to buy devices and headphones with aptX or LDAC codecs supported. These codecs require licensing fees, so devices with them are more expensive.
> 
> ...


----------



## JBean

For those of you who have the Lypertek Pureplay Z7; which bluetooth codec is it running on for you? I know it supports Aptx Adaptive, but there doesn't seem to be many references as to whether or not it is compatible with regular aptx (which my phone does support).  If the Z7s can run on regular aptx, I am a happy camper! Cheers


----------



## CJYYZ (Aug 3, 2021)

JBean said:


> For those of you who have the Lypertek Pureplay Z7; which bluetooth codec is it running on for you? I know it supports Aptx Adaptive, but there doesn't seem to be many references as to whether or not it is compatible with regular aptx (which my phone does support).  If the Z7s can run on regular aptx, I am a happy camper! Cheers


Apparently AptX Adaptive is backwards compatible with AptX  and AptX-HD: https://www.aptx.com/aptx-adaptive

Unfortunately I don't have anything AptX to connect to, so I don't know which codec(s) the Z7 uses. I'd really like to know to get an idea of what kind of latency to expect, because I'm eyeing the Fiio BTA30 (or it's successor) to connect to my TV audio. It would be great to pull back the curtain and see what's going on behind the scenes.


----------



## CJYYZ

clerkpalmer said:


> These look interesting. 149 on Amazon today and I’ve got 113 in points. The form factor looks awful though.  Looks like sq should be stellar. Does Samsung implement aptx adaptive?


Form factor is not stellar, the buds stick out a bit. I guess that's the trade off for a triple driver setup. Not sure about Samsung supporting AptX Adaptive. I'm using AAC on Apple and they sound amazing.


----------



## Juturna (Aug 3, 2021)

After finding an optimal EQ and changing the eartips on my Sony XM4's to the ones from my Soundpeats T2 these sound EXCELLENT, lots of clarity even if I would maybe want.... even more of a balanced sound. Could probably dial back the bass a bit to make it less warm-sounding but I don't want to mess with the EQ too much because this is the first time i'm not sitting trying to dial in the EQ with every damn song I listen to.

It really sounds natural and open too which I didn't think it did with the stock tips and the EQ's I used first.
The issue that I have now is that the tips aren't sealing especially well because they're a tad bit small and also make the earbuds feel... not very secure in the ears.
They're actually not falling out or anything but if I push them in/try to twist them to get a deeper fit they almost instantly shift back into the original position sitting so the eartip is really shallow in the ears.
This means somewhat poor ANC/isolation and just the feeling like they're going to fall out even if they actually don't. I mean they might if I were to run or anything like that, but even shaking my head they're staying in place. Would really want a bigger eartip that helps them sound like this but also fit deeper, and for some reason Amazon doesn't sell Spinfits 360 in my country and paying import taxes and stuff if I order them from the US seems like a hassle.

Any alternatives that have either a big size L or even XL size eartips that doesn't completely bork the isolation/ANC but still improves the mids and treble over the stock tips?


----------



## Juturna

Also, does anybody have any advice on what to do when your ears are hurting from earbuds except for just stopping the usage for awhile? 

It started out with the Soundpeats being a tad too big which made my ears a bit sensitive, but then the Earfun Free Pros who are much smaller honestly made it worse because I could really get them to have a deep fit when they probably weren't meant to sit that deep, which tended to hurt even more. Now the Sonys don't hurt except for when I put them in and when I twist the earbuds, it's basically the inside of my tragus that hurts so it's not like the ear canals, it's probably the skin that has gotten chafed or something. Anyone that has any experience with this?


----------



## Slowhand

Just placed an order for some CA MT's to upgrade my MW07 GO's. Hope they are largely fault free  

Wanted ANC in my next pair but too many compromises with all current top offerings around the €300 mark for me. Guess up next for consideration should be something new from Sennheiser and also CA again in the not too distant future.


----------



## BobJS

Slowhand said:


> Just placed an order for some CA MT's to upgrade my MW07 GO's. Hope they are largely fault free
> 
> Wanted ANC in my next pair but too many compromises with all current top offerings around the €300 mark for me. Guess up next for consideration should be something new from Sennheiser and also CA again in the not too distant future.



From where?


----------



## Mitr1anton

Dunu


----------



## Slowhand

BobJS said:


> From where?


https://www.cambridgeaudio.com

Check and see whether they deliver to the US, for me it was free 3 day shipping.


----------



## jasonb

Slowhand said:


> https://www.cambridgeaudio.com
> 
> Check and see whether they deliver to the US, for me it was free 3 day shipping.



They do. I'm in the US ordered mine directly from them. Only took a few days to arrive.


----------



## BobJS

jasonb said:


> They do. I'm in the US ordered mine directly from them. Only took a few days to arrive.





Slowhand said:


> https://www.cambridgeaudio.com
> 
> Check and see whether they deliver to the US, for me it was free 3 day shipping.



I don't get it.  There's no way to buy it from their web site.  I click on buy and it opens the same page again.  Doesn't put anything into the cart.  How did you do it?


----------



## C_Lindbergh

Mitr1anton said:


> Dunu



Omg, a Dunu TWS! Can't wait!


----------



## BobJS

BobJS said:


> I don't get it.  There's no way to buy it from their web site.  I click on buy and it opens the same page again.  Doesn't put anything into the cart.  How did you do it?



Oh, I see.  If I log on from EU it will let me put it in cart.  But I can't ship to USA.  If I select North America - US, it won't allow me to put it into the cart.


----------



## jasonb

BobJS said:


> Oh, I see.  If I log on from EU it will let me put it in cart.  But I can't ship to USA.  If I select North America - US, it won't allow me to put it into the cart.


I'm thinking something is wrong with their website. I bought mine directly from them about a month ago and I'm in the US.


----------



## BobJS

jasonb said:


> I'm thinking something is wrong with their website. I bought mine directly from them about a month ago and I'm in the US.



I sent them an email.


----------



## BobJS

Sorry for hogging this thread, but for anyone interested, here is a portion of Cambridge Audio's email response :

"Due to high demand, shipping issues and delays, and a worldwide shortage in some electronic components that are affecting almost all manufacturers, we are currently experiencing some stock shortages and long lead times in production and deliveries. Please rest assured we are working hard to ensure that Melomania Touch is available as soon as possible. I will do my best to get an estimate on what we expect Melomania Touch to be available again for you, but please be aware because of the reasons outlined above any timeframe we provide can be subject to change at any time.   Also, it won't be possible to order Melomania Touch from regions outside the US and get them delivered to the US."


----------



## jasonb

BobJS said:


> Sorry for hogging this thread, but for anyone interested, here is a portion of Cambridge Audio's email response :
> 
> "Due to high demand, shipping issues and delays, and a worldwide shortage in some electronic components that are affecting almost all manufacturers, we are currently experiencing some stock shortages and long lead times in production and deliveries. Please rest assured we are working hard to ensure that Melomania Touch is available as soon as possible. I will do my best to get an estimate on what we expect Melomania Touch to be available again for you, but please be aware because of the reasons outlined above any timeframe we provide can be subject to change at any time.   Also, it won't be possible to order Melomania Touch from regions outside the US and get them delivered to the US."


More Corona shortages....


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

jasonb said:


> More Corona shortages....


I mean they never stopped and parts of China just went into lockdown again over Delta. It's only going to get worse.

Far be it from me to play devil's advocate, but this might be the time to put a couple more purchases on the credit card in case we're asked to bunker down again.


----------



## jasonb

miserybeforethemusic said:


> I mean they never stopped and parts of China just went into lockdown again over Delta. It's only going to get worse.
> 
> Far be it from me to play devil's advocate, but this might be the time to put a couple more purchases on the credit card in case we're asked to bunker down again.


Where are you located? I'm in the US, and we never really "shut down".


----------



## Caipirina

assassin10000 said:


> No, the XM4 are Sony's normal sized IEM nozzle (t200 size iirc).
> 
> What I do is I take the foam tips off the APP adapters as they are actually round.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the detailed insight .. have to check if my foams have that adapter .. if only I could locate them ... if all goes well, XM4 tomorrow ...


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

jasonb said:


> Where are you located? I'm in the US, and we never really "shut down".


Los Angeles. We never started back up.


----------



## BooleanBones

jasonb said:


> Where are you located? I'm in the US, and we never really "shut down".


Supply Chains are bottlenecked regardless of location and regardless of product type. This will continue for the foreseeable future.


----------



## Caipirina (Aug 3, 2021)

webvan said:


> Still happy with my Sabbat X12s for running (ZERO thump) after 2+ years but the Samsung Galaxy Buds Live have dropped in price (70€ on Amazon.de) so I'm...tempted. Is there any advantage to using them for running over the X12s ? If not fur running would they be better for cycling thanks to their ANC ? The X12s are ok when climbing but as soon as the speed picks up the music is really drowned by wind noise  Thanks !


I enjoyed them for running very much last summer, but I think my sweat killed one of them ...  for 70€ I'd go for it

edit: just saw all those mainly negative words on the gblive and I think it’s a bit similar to your appreciation for the Amazon echo buds: it’s all about the fit. I am getting a great fit, the ANC works fine and I find the sound very engaging. 
YMMV


----------



## jasonb

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Los Angeles. We never started back up.


I'm in North Carolina. I work in retail, so besides wearing a mask nothing has changed for me


----------



## DJ XtAzY

New firmware for Cambridge MT:

*3rd August 2021

(v2.1.7)

Updates: *


Improved operation of auto power on/off and the associated LED indication
Bass Boost EQ preset replaced by a new Neutral EQ preset
Volume is now fully muted when the volume is adjusted to the minimum setting
If the earbuds have Transparency on, this is now automatically switched off when the earbuds are replaced in the charging case
Improved volume control with TWS+ phones
Minimised background noise when Transparency is on or during a voice call.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

DJ XtAzY said:


> New firmware for Cambridge MT:
> 
> *3rd August 2021
> 
> ...


Nice! Congrats, Cambridge Dev Team for the release!

I've _really_ wanted to talk about some of these changes, but couldn't. Two (imo) relatively useless EQ presets have been pulled, Neutral is now a preset, and I believe case charging activity has improved. Those of you using TWS+ phones will hopefully have a much more stable experience


----------



## jasonb

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Nice! Congrats, Cambridge Dev Team for the release!
> 
> I've _really_ wanted to talk about some of these changes, but couldn't. Two (imo) relatively useless EQ presets have been pulled, Neutral is now a preset, and I believe case charging activity has improved. Those of you using TWS+ phones will hopefully have a much more stable experience


How's the "Neutral" EQ profile?


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

jasonb said:


> How's the "Neutral" EQ profile?


It's where I'm at with 90% of the content. Just a flat EQ, but nice that you don't need to occupy a preset slot for it anymore.


----------



## jasonb

miserybeforethemusic said:


> It's where I'm at with 90% of the content. Just a flat EQ, but nice that you don't need to occupy a preset slot for it anymore.


Isn't that what the "balanced" one was? I thought "balanced" had all the sliders at 0.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

jasonb said:


> Isn't that what the "balanced" one was? I thought "balanced" had all the sliders at 0.


Have to use my phone for a WebEx, but I'll confirm what I see after the meeting is over. You might be right.

I'm currently testing a couple sub-versions ahead, so what I'm seeing may not match what y'all see.


----------



## bladefd

BobJS said:


> Sorry for hogging this thread, but for anyone interested, here is a portion of Cambridge Audio's email response :
> 
> "Due to high demand, shipping issues and delays, and a worldwide shortage in some electronic components that are affecting almost all manufacturers, we are currently experiencing some stock shortages and long lead times in production and deliveries. Please rest assured we are working hard to ensure that Melomania Touch is available as soon as possible. I will do my best to get an estimate on what we expect Melomania Touch to be available again for you, but please be aware because of the reasons outlined above any timeframe we provide can be subject to change at any time.   Also, it won't be possible to order Melomania Touch from regions outside the US and get them delivered to the US."


Probably why I never heard back from them for rma.. I will wait until tomorrow before I email.. Will be a full week tomorrow


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

bladefd said:


> Probably why I never heard back from them for rma.. I will wait until tomorrow before I email.. Will be a full week tomorrow


Don't wait too long


----------



## TK33

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Los Angeles. We never started back up.


Was just there...traveling from LAX you would never know that but the person at the hotel downtown did tell me it's been slow.

Back in NY where we shut down (city became a ghost town), opened back up, and restrictions are now coming back.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

TK33 said:


> Was just there...traveling from LAX you would never know that but the person at the hotel downtown did tell me it's been slow.
> 
> Back in NY where we shut down (city became a ghost town), opened back up, and restrictions are now coming back.


I'll keep the convo here focused to the wireless game, but have some fun stories I could share about how bureaucracy has trashed this state's response in a way that would really make you scratch your head. Enough people probably come here to _not _read about that sort of stuff, but I feel awful for most of the small business owners out here. My heart positively breaks for what Cuomo/DeBlasio aren't doing for you guys.

This article's fairly telling. Are you the rat or the scientist running the experiment?
https://www.heartbeatservices.org/hope-floats


----------



## dj24

DJ XtAzY said:


> New firmware for Cambridge MT:
> 
> *3rd August 2021
> 
> ...


Really impressed with CA's commitment and determination in trying to improve their product.  Can anyone confirm if voice calls have really with improved with Transparency on and if so by how much?  I live on Cisco Jabber VOIP calls and the only reason I haven't gotten the touch is due to reports of poor call quality overall.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

dj24 said:


> Really impressed with CA's commitment and determination in trying to improve their product.  Can anyone confirm if voice calls have really with improved with Transparency on and if so by how much?  I live on Cisco Jabber VOIP calls and the only reason I haven't gotten the touch is due to reports of poor call quality overall.


9 times out of 10, I can trace muffled calls back to that silicone ring around each earbud covering the microphone. It likes to slip around a bit. That being said, I usually take calls on the 85t (regardless of host device), so not the best person to ask.

Hopefully someone else can give you an answer on that.


----------



## Slowhand

Nice, firmware update on the day I ordered it, lol. 

Do we know if the MT experience thus far has generally been smoother on iOS or Android?


----------



## miserybeforethemusic (Aug 3, 2021)

Slowhand said:


> Nice, firmware update on the day I ordered it, lol.
> 
> Do we know if the MT experience thus far has generally been smoother on iOS or Android?


Smoothest has been iOS (really closed ecosystem, so fewer devices need development), followed by Android phones that are _not _compatible with the TWS+ protocol (the one that sends signals to both ears instead of to one with a piggyback). I would place the phones that support TWS+ in the "maybe" category; it's going to depend on _which _phone you have.

Fwiw, I have a much smoother experience on the Pixel 3a (not TWS+) than I do the OnePlus 8T (TWS+).

_Disclaimer: these are my own opinions and purely speculative in nature. I do not speak for Cambridge and this is not an indication of elements being tested._


----------



## Slowhand

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Smoothest has been iOS (really closed ecosystem, so fewer devices need development), followed by Android phones that are _not _compatible with the TWS+ protocol (the one that sends signals to both ears instead of to one with a piggyback). I would place the phones that support TWS+ in the "maybe" category; it's going to depend on _which _phone you have.
> 
> Fwiw, I have a much smoother experience on the Pixel 3a (not TWS+) than I do the OnePlus 8T (TWS+).


Thanks for the info, I am on iOS myself. 

At least TWS+ functionality is part of the next Bluetooth standard, so we should see more even results (and features) across the board eventually.


----------



## jasonb

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Smoothest has been iOS (really closed ecosystem, so fewer devices need development), followed by Android phones that are _not _compatible with the TWS+ protocol (the one that sends signals to both ears instead of to one with a piggyback). I would place the phones that support TWS+ in the "maybe" category; it's going to depend on _which _phone you have.
> 
> Fwiw, I have a much smoother experience on the Pixel 3a (not TWS+) than I do the OnePlus 8T (TWS+).
> 
> _Disclaimer: these are my own opinions and purely speculative in nature. I do not speak for Cambridge and this is not an indication of elements being tested._



I've only had one experience with TWS+ and it also wasn't good. I had use the Lypertek Tevi's with a OnePlus phone which supported TWS+ and it definitely wasn't always a smooth experience. I think TWS+ is just buggy. I used the same Lypertek Tevi's with a Pixel phone and the experience was definitely smoother.

Since we are on this topic, how does Sony go about it? The WF1000XM3 and XM4 both sides simultaneously connect to phones and it has nothing to do with Qualcomm's TWS+. How are they doing it?


----------



## CocaCola15

Anyone have tips on how to force the MT FW update? Mine says 1.4.2 and "up to date."


----------



## stormwrx

CocaCola15 said:


> Anyone have tips on how to force the MT FW update? Mine says 1.4.2 and "up to date."


Search for the Melomania app on the App Store and make sure you have updated the app as well. I could not update the firmware until I updated the app first.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

CocaCola15 said:


> Anyone have tips on how to force the MT FW update? Mine says 1.4.2 and "up to date."


This place usually updates about a day after official releases if you need the APK, but I would suggest waiting until it appears in your Play Store to make sure it's legitimate software. Apkpure is supposed to vet all apps, but I can't confirm that:

https://apkpure.com/melomania-by-cambridge-audio/com.cambridgeaudio.melomania


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

jasonb said:


> Isn't that what the "balanced" one was? I thought "balanced" had all the sliders at 0.


Confirmed it's "Neutral" that has all sliders at 0. I believe "Balanced" might have become "Neutral" and "Bass Boost" became "Immersive."

And Immersive is a very subtle checkmark; works on some stuff, but like I said, I usually just keep it on Neutral because stock tuning is bang-on for me.


----------



## CocaCola15 (Aug 3, 2021)

stormwrx said:


> Search for the Melomania app on the App Store and make sure you have updated the app as well. I could not update the firmware until I updated the app first.


Thanks! Seems to be working. But slow. The app was at 1.3.0. Never thought to update it. Now 1.7.8.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic (Aug 3, 2021)

CocaCola15 said:


> Thanks!


Additionally, I don't usually get prompts for update. Have to go into the Settings menu within the Melomania app and check the firmware version.

Folks should also see some...differences...in the way the update process occurs. Would be interested to see everybody's feedback on the new prompts vs the old ones (as well as any observations during update, really). I plan to bring all of this back to the dev team.

So...what are _you _choosing for your first post-firmware update track?

​


----------



## CocaCola15 (Aug 3, 2021)

Update on update: It's stalling at 99% on the right (left is 100%), and the "finalising update" line is spinning and spinning. I hit "try again" and it seems it's stuck. PITA. This should not be such a hassle. 

Okay, it' just gave me an "Error" message on two straight tries. I may get out and see if the update is completed, despite the error message.  It says "Please remain on this page until the update is complete." Just got "Error!" for the third straight time.

Not happy with CA right now.

I canceled out of the update, reconnected via BT and checked "About this version." Sure enough, it's now at 2.1.7 for FW and 1.7.8 for App. Not very smooth, but I believe I went through the same clunky update process last time.

Maybe I am in the minority, but this should work, no?


----------



## CocaCola15 (Aug 3, 2021)

Really do like the neutral preset., Seems a bit more headroom than before? Damn, Melody Gardot's Amalia never sounded so good! (First track with new FW).


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

CocaCola15 said:


> Update on update: It's stalling at 99% on the right (left is 100%), and the "finalising update" line is spinning and spinning. I hit "try again" and it seems it's stuck. PITA. This should not be such a hassle.
> 
> Okay, it' just gave me an "Error" message on two straight tries. I may get out and see if the update is completed, despite the error message.  It says "Please remain on this page until the update is complete." Just got "Error!" for the third straight time.
> 
> ...


This can happen if you try to rush the firmware update. Even I sometimes have to re-attempt. This time, however, I only had to reattempt _once _and it applied successfully.

I will feed back to the team there's at least one shared issue with performing firmware updates, though I will encourage everybody to just let the ball spin, even if it's taking a while. Also doesn't hurt to keep the screen on and the app in action while you're updating. If those fail and you want immediate access, I suggest attempting on another device (one of the reasons the Pixel 3a became a dedicated testing device, to be honest).



CocaCola15 said:


> Really do like the neutral preset., Seems a bit more headroom than before? Damn, Melody Gardot's Amalia never sounded so good!


Imagine how I'm feeling with John Carpenter...yep; pretty sure we got another tuning change. CA stays pretty mum about that side of things, so I can't comment one way or the other as to whether there are real tuning changes occurring from version to version, but it honestly wouldn't surprise me (_Disclaimer: my opinion)_.

Also just received word that the version I'm "testing" and the officially-released versions are the same, so you folks are running the same stuff I am (including firmware 2.1.7). Unabashed feedback is highly recommended and the most effective way to make things even better for the UX.

Has anybody given HearThrough a try, by the way? Feel like I'm the king of spoilers here...


----------



## CocaCola15 (Aug 3, 2021)

Never use hearthrough. Will check it out.


----------



## stormwrx

miserybeforethemusic said:


> This can happen if you try to rush the firmware update. Even I sometimes have to re-attempt. This time, however, I only had to reattempt _once _and it applied successfully.
> 
> I will feed back to the team there's at least one shared issue with performing firmware updates, though I will encourage everybody to just let the ball spin, even if it's taking a while. Also doesn't hurt to keep the screen on and the app in action while you're updating. If those fail and you want immediate access, I suggest attempting on another device (one of the reasons the Pixel 3a became a dedicated testing device, to be honest).
> 
> ...


HearThrough is definitely more natural and has less white noise with v. 2.1.7. This seems to be a solid update so far, but will have to spend more time to see if it resolved the earbuds not always powering down and charging when placed in the case.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic (Aug 3, 2021)

stormwrx said:


> HearThrough is definitely more natural and has less white noise with v. 2.1.7. This seems to be a solid update so far, but will have to spend more time to see if it resolved the earbuds not always powering down and charging when placed in the case.


Likewise. I got through two albums, using Neutron, with TWS+ enabled and nothing shut down. Stress-testing it now with an 8-hour playlist. If I get no disconnects or shutdowns, then I'm sold to be perfectly honest; that was the last thing holding these up from the #1 spot.

Sorry, Noble. Gotta fix that app first.

HearThrough is so much better and more natural. My voice sounds way more like my voice; not some voice assistant interpreting what it would sound like. There's only the slightest hint of a robotic edge and the noise floor is much lower at 50% which has been perfect for around-the-house use.


----------



## stormwrx

@miserybeforethemusic, I must agree on that Noble app. Also, the hearthrough on the MTs is way better (especially post-update) than that on the Falcon Pros.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

stormwrx said:


> @miserybeforethemusic, I must agree on that Noble app. Also, the hearthrough on the MTs is way better (especially post-update) than that on the Falcon Pros.


Right? Almost to the point that it's a little embarrassing, but I know the pickup microphones work differently on the Falcon Pro than they do the MT. If we can see this sort of improvment, I think it stands to reason that so could Noble. Honestly, I'll always root for the Wizard, so I hope they can pull through.


----------



## jasonb

So I hate to say this my fellow Melomania Touch fans, but I'm now preferring the sound of the WF1000XM4 with the ePro TWS tips and no EQ. It just seems to be a more natural, balanced, and detailed sound. The Sony's might not be as "fun" of a sound, but with these tips and no EQ these sound more neutral, and that's what I enjoy most of the time. Switching between the Melomania Touch and my full size headphones which are the Focal Elex, or AKG K371, the Melomania Touch just sounds too "fun" and not neutral enough. I know I can EQ the Melomania Touch, but they just don't sound the same even with a bunch of EQ. I'll probably still keep the Melomania Touch's around, but I don't think they are my favorite anymore. I'm sure most would call the WF1000XM4 the way I'm hearing them as dull and boring, but this is what I prefer. I know it's a not a fair comparison at over twice the price though....


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

jasonb said:


> So I hate to say this my fellow Melomania Touch fans, but I'm now preferring the sound of the WF1000XM4 with the ePro TWS tips and no EQ. It just seems to be a more natural, balanced, and detailed sound. The Sony's might not be as "fun" of a sound, but with these tips and no EQ these sound more neutral, and that's what I enjoy most of the time. Switching between the Melomania Touch and my full size headphones which are the Focal Elex, or AKG K371, the Melomania Touch just sounds too "fun" and not neutral enough. I know I can EQ the Melomania Touch, but they just don't sound the same even with a bunch of EQ. I'll probably still keep the Melomania Touch's around, but I don't think they are my favorite anymore. I'm sure most would call the WF1000XM4 the way I'm hearing them as dull and boring, but this is what I prefer. I know it's a not a fair comparison at over twice the price though....


Imagine how I feel comparing them against the Falcon Pro, only I feel the other way around about them (NFP being more "fun" in a relative sense). Don't see why you preferring one set over another would be a bad thing. We'd have a different story if you felt like they didn't belong in the rotation anymore.

Then it'd be battle royale


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

Think it's safe to say the random shutdown/disconnect issue isn't an issue anymore...


Probably time I took a break, huh? They were fully charged when I started


----------



## clerkpalmer

erockg said:


> I know, it's pricey.  I just didn't want the steel because of scratches.  Hopefully, I have them this week.  Grabbed the Nuratrue buds too.  Testing them out today.


What’s the verdict on the mw08s? My klipsch arrive tomorrow.


----------



## Darkestred

CocaCola15 said:


> Update on update: It's stalling at 99% on the right (left is 100%), and the "finalising update" line is spinning and spinning. I hit "try again" and it seems it's stuck. PITA. This should not be such a hassle.
> 
> Okay, it' just gave me an "Error" message on two straight tries. I may get out and see if the update is completed, despite the error message.  It says "Please remain on this page until the update is complete." Just got "Error!" for the third straight time.
> 
> ...


Mine hung on 99% but i left it like that for a few minutes and then closed out the app and restarted.  The bud in question showed 100% and began working on the next.


----------



## erockg

clerkpalmer said:


> What’s the verdict on the mw08s? My klipsch arrive tomorrow.


I'm keeping them.  Love them.  They're also louder than the Nuratrue.  Might keep both.  MW08S's are just built so well.  Love the soundstage and the deep bass, but not muddy seemingly with the new foam tips.  Klipsch T5 II ANC Mclaren's arrive Thursday.  We can compare notes


----------



## srinivasvignesh

Hi, is there consensus on what is the best true wireless when it comes to calls? I have not checked in a while. I would like to see the best background noise suppression and clear voice pickup. 

Is there anything better than APP? Every other aspect is a lower priority.


----------



## chinmie

webvan said:


> Thanks, looking forward to reading your feedback. I think that wind noise is going to be unavoidable for an open/earbud design though as the "air flow" that lets you hear what's going on will just increase with speed.
> 
> I've stopped using the little foam sleeves with the X12s as they kept humidity and the charging contacts got corroded. I finally managed to clean them but now the sound isn't as good as the move around a bit. Will try to reuse them maybe by removing them each time to let them dry.



sorry for the delayed feedback, yesterday was a bit busy, but i have managed to try it this morning.

the Buds Live is still fine at 20km/hour, there's wind noise but still doesn't drown out the music yet..but at 30km/hour and up the wind wouls be too overpowering to listen at a safe level.


----------



## blomman77

New update for Melomania 1+ also


----------



## tiagopinto

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Additionally, I don't usually get prompts for update. Have to go into the Settings menu within the Melomania app and check the firmware version.
> 
> Folks should also see some...differences...in the way the update process occurs. Would be interested to see everybody's feedback on the new prompts vs the old ones (as well as any observations during update, really). I plan to bring all of this back to the dev team.
> 
> ...



Well, I’ve been away a few days but I come back to the good news of a FW update on my one and only MT. I’ll try and share something you can share with the (thankfully) tireless dev team. Which for me you are (happily and respectfully) a part of. 



miserybeforethemusic said:


> Confirmed it's "Neutral" that has all sliders at 0. I believe "Balanced" might have become "Neutral" and "Bass Boost" became "Immersive."
> 
> And Immersive is a very subtle checkmark; works on some stuff, but like I said, I usually just keep it on Neutral because stock tuning is bang-on for me.



You’re right about the EQ naming shifts. I also only use Balanced, now Neutral, as, as you mention, they do announce “technical” updates but not SQ ones. I wouldn’t either, as they could “scare” some customers. But the “silent” updates they’ve made have been amazing. Now they announced it because nomenclature changed. Let them keep it that way. Absolutely no problem for me.

Could I love these even more? Let’s see…


----------



## tiagopinto

Now, for the update process:

Although I’m on iOS, with automatic app updates, this did not happen. Knowing about the update, I had to go to the App Store and update it, before the FW prompt came up. This should be automatic. 

So, here we go (one photo every two minutes):





This is at 2 minutes:





This is at 4 minutes:





This is at 6 minutes:





This is at 8 minutes:





And in the same minute:





One bud at a time, left first. First erase, then transfer, then… Finished.

Obviously, this should go without saying, like with everything IT, you should be patient and never rush things.

Always keep the concerned app active and in the foreground, always.

I didn’t experience ANY hiccups. FW update was a breeze.

@miserybeforethemusic please convey my thanks to the dev team at Cambridge Audio. And a special thanks to you for being our close connection inside and for the work you’ve been delivering. 

Cheers all!


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

tiagopinto said:


> Now, for the update process:
> 
> Although I’m on iOS, with automatic app updates, this did not happen. Knowing about the update, I had to go to the App Store and update it, before the FW prompt came up. This should be automatic.
> 
> ...


Much appreciated, friend. Glad I could help the group.


----------



## tiagopinto (Aug 4, 2021)

After the FW update, I’ve so far listened to a full album. I didn’t dare to interrupt what the MT are now delivering.

So, when you (@miserybeforethemusic) ask what’s my first song, is actually a full album. And I chose a very special one. One which I consider to be the very best of 2020.

https://tidal.com/album/137799199

A friend recommended Yussef Dayes to me and for a year I’ve been exploring him and many related artists. The likes of Kamaal Williams, Tom Misch, Rocco Palladino, Alfa Mist, Oscar Jerome, Mansur Brown, Robohands, Ashley Henry, Ezra Collective… to name a few great ones.

Since I started writing these posts, the album has ended. I just put it on again. The album, the MT… the feeling of being in bliss with music…

(disclaimer: I know this is Bluetooth audio, I know these are 130€ buds, I know these are not the Empyrean fed through a valve amp playing some kind of hi-res file. But if it makes me this excited… I’m thrilled for the MT. Don’t remember if I mentioned this here before, hehe.)

Edit: haven’t tested stability or the “new” transparency as I haven’t been able to move from this chair since the update... but if it follows the same path, I’m all ears!


----------



## Juturna (Aug 4, 2021)

What's the best sounding earbud that has non-intrusive fit?

Because it's getting to a point where I think I need to desperately let my ears rest from in-ears.

Like I mentioned in an earlier post, I think i'm getting really bad chafing in my ears from previous earbuds i've used and it seems like the constant use of my earbuds doesn't give it a chance to rest. It's basically both of my... tragus...es? How the f do you pluralize tragus? Tragi? So would need something that doesn't require that it touches that part of the ear, or at least doesn't put pressure on it. Because it hurts like hell. 

I look so goddamn goofy with on/over-ears because of my already huge noggin', and I also find them very impractical, otherwise I would go that route.

I know the Samsung Galaxy Buds Live and they seem better than the regular Airpods style, because I really dislike that type of bud that don't go into the ear canals because I for one don't actually WANT to hear anything else of the world around me, hah.


----------



## DRuM

My Creative Outlier Air v2 weren't disconnecting from my tv or phone when put back into the charging case, whereas my Mpow M30 revert to the phone or tv speakers when put back in their case and then reconnect when taken back out. I charged the Creative buds and case and now they're disconnecting and reconnecting perfectly just like the Mpow and I can swap between either buds and instantly connect.  Strange, seems below a certain battery level the Creative don't disconnect.


----------



## Hearforthemusic

Could I ask if anyone has any recommendations please?
New gym plays terrible music loud, so want to drown this and the clanking of weights and machines out.
Using iPhone 12.
Looking for an earphone with decent anc and great audio quality - Spotify playing mainly electronic / dance / hip hop
Decided I wanted the Wf1000xm4’s, however, in UK it seems very difficult to grab hold of them.

Anything similar anyone would recommend?
Was just going to spend more than I wanted and grab pi7s but thread on that model seems to suggest it’s a bit quiet on iPhone.

thanks in advance


----------



## Tenlow

I've been playing around with various TWS these last few days and weeks and have tried the following ones:

Sony WF-1000XM4
Bowers&Wilkins PI7
Master&Dynamic MW08
Marshall Mode II
Sennheiser CX

If anyone has any questions about these, feel free please.

Quick summary is:

I'm definitely keeping the WF-1000XM4 and have sent back all the other ones but in the case of the MW08 only to buy the new MW08 sport. I loved the MW08 for their build quality, design, case, fit and excellent battery life while still sounding very good. Now add the kevlar case and wireless charging with the MW08 Sport and they will be a keeper as well.

The WF-1000XM4 are just excellent allrounders. They do pretty much everything well. Very good SQ with EQ, superb ANC as well as passive noise isolation, great battery life and good enough call quality + a nice case with wireless charging, individual left/right bud usage, responsive touch controls and a very good app + speak to chat feature. A real winner in my book.


----------



## scubaphish

Tenlow said:


> I've been playing around with various TWS these last few days and weeks and have tried the following ones:
> 
> Sony WF-1000XM4
> Bowers&Wilkins PI7
> ...


Thanks for update.  Sorry if I’ve missed it, but would appreciate your thoughts vs PI7. I’m a fan of sound and comfort, but then again they’re also in process of being replaced by B&W so maybe I know my answer?


----------



## Tenlow

scubaphish said:


> Thanks for update.  Sorry if I’ve missed it, but would appreciate your thoughts vs PI7. I’m a fan of sound and comfort, but then again they’re also in process of being replaced by B&W so maybe I know my answer?


The PI7 were, frankly, a disappointment for me but that has also to do with me being on iOS but it's not just that. They are pretty quiet on iOS and AAC, so I didn't like that.

Other than that and more importantly, though, their Bluetooth range was mediocre at best on my pair, ANC just average, battery life too short (4 hours), no EQ option and the inconvenience to always have to use the app to (de-)activate the transparency mode. The case is also a bit large. They still sounded very good but I just couldn't justify spending 400€ for all their flaws and inconveniences when the competition is that strong (and cheaper!).


----------



## CocaCola15

blomman77 said:


> New update for Melomania 1+ also


Thanks for that, I was going to check today (after the Touch update came out yesterday). Just updated, went like clockwork. Using the new neutral preset, just as I do with the MT. Love the M1+ and think they are very underrated (not much buzz here). At $139, outstanding sound, comfort, battery. I actually like the form factor more than the MTs (I use the OEM foam tips, medium). And SQ-wise, they are on par with the MTs, IMHO.  Plus, their passive noise canceling is excellent.


----------



## Tommy C

srinivasvignesh said:


> Hi, is there consensus on what is the best true wireless when it comes to calls? I have not checked in a while. I would like to see the best background noise suppression and clear voice pickup.
> 
> Is there anything better than APP? Every other aspect is a lower priority.


Jabra always been my go-to brand for calls when I needed it.  They also improved their sq quite a bit in recent years. Reliability is great and since they started in that playground a while back I’ll give them a try.


----------



## Caipirina

Juturna said:


> What's the best sounding earbud that has non-intrusive fit?
> 
> Because it's getting to a point where I think I need to desperately let my ears rest from in-ears.
> 
> ...


Sounds like you are a candidate for the Bose QC Earbuds .. they are 'semi in ear' and the ANC is just lovely 
But totally get your problem .. I feel often that my ears need to 'breathe' and I give them very little chance ...


----------



## Caipirina

Lucky me (the guy who is always late to the party), but I received my XM4 today and I am very much impressed and happy! 





Sound, fit, ANC, everything is pretty spectacular .. though I think I still prefer the Bose QC buds for running, as the 'thud' on the Sonys is already annoying when I am just walking .. 
Another thing I am curious how it plays out: Those mem-foam / hybrid tips and sweat! My first TWS were the Jabra sport elite back in 2017 and only one of their 6 sets of tips fit (the memfoam large) but after work out they had soaked up all the sweat and were too big to put back in the case! So, every time I had to put them off, wash, let dry, put back on .. and after 4 weeks those tips broke (that inner plastic shroud thing separated from the foam) and back then there was not much going on in replacement tips for TWS (needed to be fairly short to fit in the case) The only option was ordering the WHOLE set from Jabra for 20€ plus shipping! So, I will have to see how that will work with the Sonys .. have not tried any other tips yet. 

Now, here is my tech support question for the Android savvy. I recently got an android phone to experience fun things like AptX and be able to use some apps that don't exist on iOS (like Samsung Galaxy Buds Pro or the Fiil T1 Pro)
While I am not a total noob on Android (i figured out the developer options, yay  and I found the settings to turn on LDAC, I can't make these changes 'stick' .. when I get back to regular BT settings I see no indication of LDAC being used / active .. where am I going wrong?


----------



## blackwhit

Hi guys, choosing new tws after my airpods (1st generation) are almost dead. I am listening mostly metal and rock on iphone 11 pro or ipad air. Streaming service is Tidal.
my picks:

sony wf1000-xm4
jabra elite 85t
sennheiser mtw2
technics az70w

what would be your choice and why?


----------



## srinivasvignesh

Caipirina said:


> While I am not a total noob on Android (i figured out the developer options, yay  and I found the settings to turn on LDAC, I can't make these changes 'stick' .. when I get back to regular BT settings I see no indication of LDAC being used / active .. where am I going wrong?



Quirks of Android. On my phone, I have to select the device setting (after XM4 connects, thats what I had to do for WH-1000XM4), and choose LDAC there. It sticks. Hope it helps.


----------



## dweaver

Caipirina said:


> Sounds like you are a candidate for the Bose QC Earbuds .. they are 'semi in ear' and the ANC is just lovely
> But totally get your problem .. I feel often that my ears need to 'breathe' and I give them very little chance ...


I was thinking Bose as well. I am using Galaxy Bud Pro and the default tips are pretty un-intrusive IF they fit and they have a vent to help balance air pressure in the ear.


----------



## jsmiller58

Caipirina said:


> Lucky me (the guy who is always late to the party), but I received my XM4 today and I am very much impressed and happy!
> 
> 
> Sound, fit, ANC, everything is pretty spectacular .. though I think I still prefer the Bose QC buds for running, as the 'thud' on the Sonys is already annoying when I am just walking ..
> ...


To get LDAC to stick on Android, go to Settings, Bluetooth, and then select the settings wheel next to the XM4.  Choose optimized sound rather than connection.  That should make LDAC sticky.  There is a whole rain dance you will need to do to make the highest LDAC bit rate (990/909) to stick - each time you connect to the XM4 you need to go back to Developer Settings and select 990 speed, otherwise it will be Adaptive (adjusting the speed based on the connection quality).


----------



## Juturna

Caipirina said:


> Sounds like you are a candidate for the Bose QC Earbuds .. they are 'semi in ear' and the ANC is just lovely
> But totally get your problem .. I feel often that my ears need to 'breathe' and I give them very little chance ...


I’m unsure whether or not they actually fit the bill though, but thanks for the tip!

I think they’re possibly still inserted too much in the ears in a way that might hurt my ears. If I just didn’t want anything in my ear canals altogether maybe, but now when it’s just about temporary pain that I have that’s outside of the actual ear canals I think they would be overkill and also not exactly sure they would spare my ears.
Kinda over my budget for something that I would only use temporarily.


----------



## CJYYZ

blackwhit said:


> Hi guys, choosing new tws after my airpods (1st generation) are almost dead. I am listening mostly metal and rock on iphone 11 pro or ipad air. Streaming service is Tidal.
> my picks:
> 
> sony wf1000-xm4
> ...


Check out the Lypertek Z7s:


----------



## assassin10000

Juturna said:


> What's the best sounding earbud that has non-intrusive fit?
> 
> Because it's getting to a point where I think I need to desperately let my ears rest from in-ears.



TWS adapter & MMCX Earbuds of your choice.


Sabbat X12 Ultra's or vooplay. 
Samsung Buds Live
Airpods


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

assassin10000 said:


> TWS adapter & MMCX Earbuds of your choice.
> 
> 
> Sabbat X12 Ultra's or vooplay.
> ...


I like this idea. CF01's got a pretty beefy amp stage, too.


----------



## assassin10000

miserybeforethemusic said:


> I like this idea. CF01's got a pretty beefy amp stage, too.


The Fiio UTWS3 does too (has a lower output impedance too, if that matters).

The new UTWS5 is coming soon though and has QI wireless charging.


----------



## Caipirina

jsmiller58 said:


> To get LDAC to stick on Android, go to Settings, Bluetooth, and then select the settings wheel next to the XM4.  Choose optimized sound rather than connection.  That should make LDAC sticky.  There is a whole rain dance you will need to do to make the highest LDAC bit rate (990/909) to stick - each time you connect to the XM4 you need to go back to Developer Settings and select 990 speed, otherwise it will be Adaptive (adjusting the speed based on the connection quality).


Thanks everyone for very quick feedback. Need to play some more with all this tomorrow. At least I tested them now with some SpinFits on. Very nice, Test says both ears air-tight but I wouldn’t say it’s an improvement, but so much easier to put out and then back in again.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

assassin10000 said:


> The Fiio UTWS3 does too (has a lower output impedance too, if that matters).
> 
> The new UTWS5 is coming soon though and has QI wireless charging.


That's right; it's much closer to that ideal 1-ohm mark. Truth be told, I got the CF01 specifically _because_ of its impedance because I figured it would be a pretty good match for the Tin P1. Turns out that's mostly true. Makes the Smabat M2s Pro absolutely sing, fwiw, but those seem like hyper-efficient earbuds, anyway.

Curious about that UTWS5; keep in mind there's also that NiceHCK offering that comes with the different 2-pin and MMCX adapters already. Hopefully Fiio follows suit.


----------



## jasonb

jsmiller58 said:


> To get LDAC to stick on Android, go to Settings, Bluetooth, and then select the settings wheel next to the XM4.  Choose optimized sound rather than connection.  That should make LDAC sticky.  There is a whole rain dance you will need to do to make the highest LDAC bit rate (990/909) to stick - each time you connect to the XM4 you need to go back to Developer Settings and select 990 speed, otherwise it will be Adaptive (adjusting the speed based on the connection quality).


Download the Sony music center app, connect your WF1000XM4 or any other LDAC capable device and there will be a setting in the app to have LDAC prioritize sound quality. This way you don't have to go into the developer settings each time.


----------



## clerkpalmer

Trying to figure out these Klipsch oval tips. Is the wider portion designed to sit horizontal or vertical in the ear.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

clerkpalmer said:


> Trying to figure out these Klipsch oval tips. Is the wider portion designed to sit horizontal or vertical in the ear.


It'll look like a capital O, so narrow portion becomes the X axis.


----------



## clerkpalmer

miserybeforethemusic said:


> It'll look like a capital O, so narrow portion becomes the X axis.


Yep ok thanks. Was having trouble and didn’t realize they vary in width and length. Really enjoying these. More impressions to follow. Wishing I had gone McLaren now that I’ve heard them. Can’t bring myself to return just to get McLaren can I? Hate to cause a vendor to lose money on such pettiness.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

clerkpalmer said:


> Yep ok thanks. Was having trouble and didn’t realize they vary in width and length. Really enjoying these. More impressions to follow. Wishing I had gone McLaren now that I’ve heard them. Can’t bring myself to return just to get McLaren can I? Hate to cause a vendor to lose money on such pettiness.


What are you going to grab more? That's what you stick with.


----------



## clerkpalmer

miserybeforethemusic said:


> What are you going to grab more? That's what you stick with.


If it was the same vendor I’d do it but the vendor who sold me the first ones don’t carry the McLaren.


----------



## Tommy C

clerkpalmer said:


> Yep ok thanks. Was having trouble and didn’t realize they vary in width and length. Really enjoying these. More impressions to follow. Wishing I had gone McLaren now that I’ve heard them. Can’t bring myself to return just to get McLaren can I? Hate to cause a vendor to lose money on such pettiness.


Other than the design, do the McLaren tuned differently?
I a few days ago when I checked them on Amazon the price difference was quite a lot.


----------



## scubaphish

Tommy C said:


> Other than the design, do the McLaren tuned differently?
> I a few days ago when I checked them on Amazon the price difference was quite a lot.


And it comes with a dual device wireless charging pad.


----------



## BooleanBones (Aug 4, 2021)

Caipirina said:


> Thanks everyone for very quick feedback. Need to play some more with all this tomorrow. At least I tested them now with some SpinFits on. Very nice, Test says both ears air-tight but I wouldn’t say it’s an improvement, but so much easier to put out and then back in again.


There are a few suggestions on non foam tips here recently. I landed on the Final type E TWS tips that I ordered from Hong Kong (MTM Audio). I have also used Crystal Sedna and the EPro TWS tips. I like those as well, but the Finals won my choice for use. @miserybeforethemusic has some really good posts on TWS tips for your reading pleasure in this thread as well.


----------



## erockg

scubaphish said:


> And it comes with a dual device wireless charging pad.


Carbon fiber case too.  I'll have my McLaren version tomorrow.


----------



## scubaphish

BooleanBones said:


> There are a few suggestions on non foam tips here recently. I landed on the Final type E TWS tips that I ordered from Hong Kong (MTM Audio). I have also used Crystal Sedna and the EPro TWS tips. I like those as well, but the Finals won my choice for use. @miserybeforethemusic has some really good posts on TWS tips for your reading pleasure in this thread as well.


I have a set of final type e TWS from mtmtaudio on the way!


----------



## clerkpalmer

Tommy C said:


> Other than the design, do the McLaren tuned differently?
> I a few days ago when I checked them on Amazon the price difference was quite a lot.


Tuning is the same.


----------



## clerkpalmer (Aug 4, 2021)

So these Klipsch come with something called Dirac HD Audio. Not entirely sure what it does but they are unlistenable without it on. Makes me wonder why they bothered allowing you to turn it off. Sound like 10 dollar ear buds when toggled off. Reading up on it now. Seems like some sort of custom optimization software that is different than EQ.

There does seem to be a sense of openness and soundstage that is greater than I typically get in a tws. These are very very good sounding Buds.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

clerkpalmer said:


> So these Klipsch come with something called Dirac HD Audio. Not entirely sure what it does but they are unlistenable without it on. Makes me wonder why they bothered allowing you to turn it off. Sound like 10 dollar ear buds when toggled off. Reading up on it now. Seems like some sort of custom optimization software that is different than EQ.
> 
> There does seem to be a sense of openness and soundstage that is greater than I typically get in a tws. These are very very good sounding Buds.


DIRAC is one of those guys like Dolby Labs; the Monoprice THX 788 amp utilizes their DSP for a pretty effective software crossfeed. They're more known for high-end automatic room calibration (similar to REW, but more hush hush).


----------



## clerkpalmer

miserybeforethemusic said:


> DIRAC is one of those guys like Dolby Labs; the Monoprice THX 788 amp utilizes their DSP for a pretty effective software crossfeed. They're more known for high-end automatic room calibration (similar to REW, but more hush hush).


Well it sounds pretty damn good.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

clerkpalmer said:


> Well it sounds pretty damn good.


That's what matters, then. They're smart cookies; just a difference recipe than the more well-known guys.


----------



## erockg

clerkpalmer said:


> So these Klipsch come with something called Dirac HD Audio. Not entirely sure what it does but they are unlistenable without it on. Makes me wonder why they bothered allowing you to turn it off. Sound like 10 dollar ear buds when toggled off. Reading up on it now. Seems like some sort of custom optimization software that is different than EQ.
> 
> There does seem to be a sense of openness and soundstage that is greater than I typically get in a tws. These are very very good sounding Buds.


Experiment with the tips.  For me, I had to use the larger tips for the T5 and T5 IIs.  Definitely made a difference with the stock sound.  Also, the McLaren T5 II non-ANC version came with foam tips.  Maybe you are, but if you aren't getting a good seal, email or call Klipsch and see if you get get the foam tips.


----------



## clerkpalmer

erockg said:


> Experiment with the tips.  For me, I had to use the larger tips for the T5 and T5 IIs.  Definitely made a difference with the stock sound.  Also, the McLaren T5 II non-ANC version came with foam tips.  Maybe you are, but if you aren't getting a good seal, email or call Klipsch and see if you get get the foam tips.


Thanks. I’m at large already and thinking I may need to go xl and I usually go medium.  I’m not a fan of foams generally. I’ll be interested in hearing your thoughts and whether the sq is better with the new drivers and the Dirac.


----------



## Caipirina

Some more observations on the XM4 ... now 12h later and well, not that much play time yet .. but some interesting findings
a) red flashing charging case! Quick google later reveals this is when it gets too hot'n steamy on the charging pad! Can't say I have read that before. Apparently to protect the battery.
b) I had changed to spinfits and thought about trying for a short run, but with those tips the fit felt less secure and I was not in the mood to change back to memory foam tips .. so, no run test today
c) While they don't have multipoint, the way I can change between devices is super easy (barely an inconvenience) .. just hold both buds a few seconds, they are in pairing mode and on my Redmi even a window pops up ... no need to look for the phone that was last connected and make it 'forget' those buds.

Still very smitten with the sound ... one review calls the bass 'sublime' and I could not agree more. It is not in your face deep and punchy .. it is smooth and persuasive ... and in the highs I am more aware of little cymbals and tiny knick knacks ...


----------



## Caipirina

jasonb said:


> Download the Sony music center app, connect your WF1000XM4 or any other LDAC capable device and there will be a setting in the app to have LDAC prioritize sound quality. This way you don't have to go into the developer settings each time.


Tried .. not finding that setting .. any setting i find is rather bare bone


----------



## KopaneDePooj

What tips did you use with the Jabra 85t? The oval stem and no-filter makes it very restrictive and hard to find compatible tips. I just saw some foams from Comply and Misodiko, some latex on aliexpress and not much else... I need something to make them feel more secure, the original tips move slightly in my ear canals.

Now that I have the 85t and I like it, I'm looking at the 85h for colder time  Is the tuning the same?


----------



## senorbroom

Looks nice and small, hopefully the sound is even more refined than the Buds Pro: https://www.gsmarena.com/samsung_galaxy_buds2_fully_unboxed_on_video-news-50393.php


----------



## blackwhit

CJYYZ said:


> Check out the Lypertek Z7s:




thank you, I know about them. In my country they are available in one shop only and they do not have ANC, if I am not wrong...


----------



## KopaneDePooj

senorbroom said:


> Looks nice and small, hopefully the sound is even more refined than the Buds Pro: https://www.gsmarena.com/samsung_galaxy_buds2_fully_unboxed_on_video-news-50393.php



Yes they do look good but... generally I don't like the trend towards looks and fashion for a device that should be primarily designed with functionality and ergonomics in mind. I don't like the fact that there are no more wing-tips attached to it. They should give you MORE fit options not cut on them for looks... More ear-tips (sizes and materials), wing-tips and so on.


----------



## MichaelScarn

Anybody got any experience with the Status customer service? Send them three e-mails over the last weeks, but no response. Big difference with the helpdesk from Cambridge Audio, which is excellent.


----------



## webvan

Caipirina said:


> I enjoyed them for running very much last summer, but I think my sweat killed one of them ...  for 70€ I'd go for it
> 
> edit: just saw all those mainly negative words on the gblive and I think it’s a bit similar to your appreciation for the Amazon echo buds: it’s all about the fit. I am getting a great fit, the ANC works fine and I find the sound very engaging.
> YMMV


Thanks, it doesn't sound like you liked them more than the X12s for running ? Not a surprise since I can't see how the X12s could be improved on for running (especially with the small foam sleeves but I'd remove them each time now to avoid messing up the charging contacts in the case) but I was hoping that maybe the GBuds Live would be better for cycling with less wind noise...


----------



## Caipirina

webvan said:


> Thanks, it doesn't sound like you liked them more than the X12s for running ? Not a surprise since I can't see how the X12s could be improved on for running (especially with the small foam sleeves but I'd remove them each time now to avoid messing up the charging contacts in the case) but I was hoping that maybe the GBuds Live would be better for cycling with less wind noise...


I found the sound a bit more engaging than the X12 and i did not have to fiddle with wings and foams ... so, for running in not-so-humid Germany it was great .. but as soon as I was back in the tropics, my sweat killed one pretty much instantly


----------



## Caipirina

with all the latex / crystal tip talk recently I got curious and checked aliexpress and holi moli .. seriously, 11-12$ for ONE pair? 

just take my money


----------



## DigDub

New creative outlier air v3 with ANC.

https://sg.creative.com/p/audio-enthusiasts/creative-outlier-air-v3


----------



## CJYYZ

blackwhit said:


> thank you, I know about them. In my country they are available in one shop only and they do not have ANC, if I am not wrong...


No, they don't have ANC.


----------



## scottsays (Aug 5, 2021)

Just discovered this---love the ag TWS04K-----

https://www.a-g-japan.com/tws05k



TWS05K
Achieve clear vocals that approach your ears with 2 dynamic drivers . A completely wireless earphone that is recommended as a sub-machine for enthusiasts, and also has waterproof performance.
The " TWS05K " is a model positioned in the K series aiming for sound quality suitable as a sub machine for enthusiasts .

The driver unit, which is the biggest feature, has two 8.8mm dynamic drivers arranged in tandem to make the sound thicker and reduce distortion. This achieves a sound that combines clear vocals that approach the ears and a tight bassline.

The sound quality of the left and right independent earphones is often not focused on the speaker part, and the sound quality is adjusted by relying heavily on the equalizer on the software, which causes the sound to be tired to hear especially in the high range. increase. The current situation is that there are many unbalanced products, such as the low frequencies being overemphasized to avoid such a phenomenon.

In TWS05K , after pursuing the acoustic characteristics of the speaker so that the sound quality is sufficiently satisfactory even without an equalizer on the software, only the part of the high frequency range caused by Bluetooth ®︎ is slightly corrected with the equalizer. I'm taking it. With such technical backing, we have achieved both clear vocals that approach the ears and a tight bassline.

In addition, the TWS05K is water resistant, so you can use it with confidence even in sudden rain.
In addition, there are plenty of accessories. The earpiece is newly designed for completely wireless earphones, and comes  with 5 sizes of final " TYPE E completely wireless dedicated specifications" . The earphone body and charging case have a matte paint finish that is not slippery and stains are not noticeable.
It is a model that we can confidently recommend to enthusiasts.

* TWS05K is an e ☆ earphone limited sale item .


----------



## howdy

KopaneDePooj said:


> What tips did you use with the Jabra 85t? The oval stem and no-filter makes it very restrictive and hard to find compatible tips. I just saw some foams from Comply and Misodiko, some latex on aliexpress and not much else... I need something to make them feel more secure, the original tips move slightly in my ear canals.
> 
> Now that I have the 85t and I like it, I'm looking at the 85h for colder time  Is the tuning the same?


I use the Diofit for my 85t and they work perfectly! They are branded for the Samsung Galaxy pro but fit the Jabra 85t. They have the same oval shape and have the ear wax screen.


----------



## Bhelpoori (Aug 5, 2021)

srinivasvignesh said:


> Hi, is there consensus on what is the best true wireless when it comes to calls? I have not checked in a while. I would like to see the best background noise suppression and clear voice pickup.
> 
> Is there anything better than APP? Every other aspect is a lower priority.


I have the APP and the Jabra 85T which I use for calls especially when walking around or untethered from my wired setup. The APP tries really hard to suppress background noise but that means if you have wind or traffic noise then people hear a lot of "choppiness" in your voice whilst the Jabra's pick up more background noise but your voice always can be made out. I prefer the Jabra's take on this but in comparison, my Bose 700 over ears are so much better than either or any other TWS I've tried... I can literally be right next to some traffic and nobody can hear the traffic at all.

In quiet conditions either the APP or the Jabras or quite a lot of other TWS work well.

You may want to check out:  if you want a comparison...

Finally, if you use WebEx, Zoom or Teams... they also have some level of background suppression of noise which can also help to suppress noise, though these mostly only work on PC/Mac and not on iOS/Android... and they are often not very good at all.
[Edited to correct a typo: wireless should be wired in 1st line]


----------



## tinyman392 (Aug 5, 2021)

CJYYZ said:


> No, they don't have ANC.


First sentence in the product description says "Our crowd-favorite—the Creative Outlier TWS series—now comes with Ambient Mode and Active Noise Reduction!"

Edit: but they cut APTX support...  That sure is going backwards.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

KopaneDePooj said:


> What tips did you use with the Jabra 85t? The oval stem and no-filter makes it very restrictive and hard to find compatible tips. I just saw some foams from Comply and Misodiko, some latex on aliexpress and not much else... I need something to make them feel more secure, the original tips move slightly in my ear canals.
> 
> Now that I have the 85t and I like it, I'm looking at the 85h for colder time  Is the tuning the same?


My coworker uses the 85h and loves it. Best-sounding caller in ever WebEx, too, which makes me a bit jealous. Hope I sound half as decent on the other end.

She's not picky, though, so no word on SQ. I'd imagine it's pretty good.


MichaelScarn said:


> Anybody got any experience with the Status customer service? Send them three e-mails over the last weeks, but no response. Big difference with the helpdesk from Cambridge Audio, which is excellent.


Only when trying to get my order. They're firmly planted in the school of "just wait, it's coming," except in nicer words. It's a satisfactory answer the first time...not the fifth.


----------



## KopaneDePooj

howdy said:


> I use the Diofit for my 85t and they work perfectly! They are branded for the Samsung Galaxy pro but fit the Jabra 85t. They have the same oval shape and have the ear wax screen.


Thanks! Sadly, they are not available on amazon in Europe. I see they are foam tips. How do they change sound with the 85t?


----------



## jasonb (Aug 5, 2021)

Caipirina said:


> Tried .. not finding that setting .. any setting i find is rather bare bone



select "this mobile" then press the 3 dots in the top corner


----------



## DUNU-Topsound (Aug 5, 2021)

Mitr1anton said:


> Dunu


Interesting that these pictures have shown up on a Russian forum --- we've only released the DTW1000H to customers in China who pre-ordered the LUNA way back in December 2019. The DTW1000H was one of the perks of the pre-order. Right now, we're still undergoing the international wireless certification process, so it is a China-only model for now. It may be some time before we release it globally, and perhaps only in select markets at first.

But some quick specs: 1 DD (7.5 mm beryllium-plated) + 2 BA (dual Knowles driver), with a high-end Qualcomm chipset, supporting BT 5.2, AptX Adaptive, and low-latency gaming mode. Battery life is estimated to be around 8 hours of playback, and 40 hours with the charging case.


----------



## clerkpalmer

DUNU-Topsound said:


> Interesting that these pictures have shown up on a Russian forum --- we've only released the DTW1000H to customers in China who pre-ordered the LUNA way back in December 2019. The DTW1000H was one of the perks of the pre-order. Right now, we're still undergoing the international wireless certification process, so it is a China-only model for now. It may be some time before we release it globally, and perhaps only in select markets at first.
> 
> But some quick specs: 1 DD (7.5 mm beryllium-plated) + 2 BA (dual Knowles driver), with a high-end Qualcomm chipset, supporting BT 5.2, AptX Adaptive, and low-latency gaming mode. Battery life is estimated to be around 8 hours of playback, and 40 hours with the charging case.


Dunu - please send me a set in plain unmarked postage. I won’t tell the FCC … pretty please?


----------



## profusion

So are the KS SKS  best budget cheap pairs of TWS with a pinch of DQ6?


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

DUNU-Topsound said:


> Interesting that these pictures have shown up on a Russian forum --- we've only released the DTW1000H to customers in China who pre-ordered the LUNA way back in December 2019. The DTW1000H was one of the perks of the pre-order. Right now, we're still undergoing the international wireless certification process, so it is a China-only model for now. It may be some time before we release it globally, and perhaps only in select markets at first.
> 
> But some quick specs: 1 DD (7.5 mm beryllium-plated) + 2 BA (dual Knowles driver), with a high-end Qualcomm chipset, supporting BT 5.2, AptX Adaptive, and low-latency gaming mode. Battery life is estimated to be around 8 hours of playback, and 40 hours with the charging case.


Excuse me whilst I pick my jaw up off the floor. Think we have a clear winner on case design...

I'd love to test/review it, if you're looking for anybody and when it gets closer to a US release. Honored, really. Please let me know.


----------



## scubaphish

clerkpalmer said:


> Well it sounds pretty damn good.


Any further thoughts on the Klipsch?


----------



## C_Lindbergh (Aug 5, 2021)

DUNU-Topsound said:


> Interesting that these pictures have shown up on a Russian forum --- we've only released the DTW1000H to customers in China who pre-ordered the LUNA way back in December 2019. The DTW1000H was one of the perks of the pre-order. Right now, we're still undergoing the international wireless certification process, so it is a China-only model for now. It may be some time before we release it globally, and perhaps only in select markets at first.
> 
> But some quick specs: 1 DD (7.5 mm beryllium-plated) + 2 BA (dual Knowles driver), with a high-end Qualcomm chipset, supporting BT 5.2, AptX Adaptive, and low-latency gaming mode. Battery life is estimated to be around 8 hours of playback, and 40 hours with the charging case.



Wow, those TWS looks amazing, both in terms of design and specs! I sure hope you'll release them in Europe! Do they also feature a transparency/ambient mode? 

Will be interesting to see if they can dethrone the CA MT!


----------



## samandhi

DUNU-Topsound said:


> Interesting that these pictures have shown up on a Russian forum --- we've only released the DTW1000H to customers in China who pre-ordered the LUNA way back in December 2019. The DTW1000H was one of the perks of the pre-order. Right now, we're still undergoing the international wireless certification process, so it is a China-only model for now. It may be some time before we release it globally, and perhaps only in select markets at first.
> 
> But some quick specs: 1 DD (7.5 mm beryllium-plated) + 2 BA (dual Knowles driver), with a high-end Qualcomm chipset, supporting BT 5.2, AptX Adaptive, and low-latency gaming mode. Battery life is estimated to be around 8 hours of playback, and 40 hours with the charging case.



Oh boy, here we go! DOOOOWWWWN the rabbit hole again I go.....


----------



## CJYYZ (Aug 5, 2021)

tinyman392 said:


> First sentence in the product description says "Our crowd-favorite—the Creative Outlier TWS series—now comes with Ambient Mode and Active Noise Reduction!"
> 
> Edit: but they cut APTX support...  That sure is going backwards.


I don't think you're looking at the Lypertek Z7s. They definitely have Aptx (Adaptive).


----------



## DUNU-Topsound

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Excuse me whilst I pick my jaw up off the floor. Think we have a clear winner on case design...
> 
> I'd love to test/review it, if you're looking for anybody and when it gets closer to a US release. Honored, really. Please let me know.



Sure --- we'll definitely keep you in mind. This model is not really the main priority for us at the moment, however, so it's unclear when we'll be introducing it to other markets at this time. The goal for us, currently, is to refresh our older wired product lines, such as the FALCON and TITAN.


----------



## samandhi

DUNU-Topsound said:


> Sure --- we'll definitely keep you in mind. This model is not really the main priority for us at the moment, however, so it's unclear when we'll be introducing it to other markets at this time. The goal for us, currently, is to refresh our older wired product lines, such as the FALCON and TITAN.


And Hopefully the DK2001 and DK3001 Pro.....


----------



## darveniza

Sensing some good testing with the new Klipsch with ANC ,during upcoming travel 😁


----------



## howdy (Aug 5, 2021)

KopaneDePooj said:


> Thanks! Sadly, they are not available on amazon in Europe. I see they are foam tips. How do they change sound with the 85t?


you must be looking at a different one, the ones i have are silicone. (the XL for me big az ears)
this is what I have.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/slredirect/picassoRedirect.html/ref=pa_sp_atf_aps_sr_pg1_1?ie=UTF8&adId=A08660861L2UBQ1H00X13&url=/diofit-Premium-Designed-Samsung-Eartips/dp/B08S395JJ4/ref=sr_1_2_sspa?crid=3TGFPJMVJN3D5&dchild=1&keywords=diofit+galaxy+buds+pro&qid=1628205911&sprefix=diofit%2Caps%2C197&sr=8-2-spons&psc=1&qualifier=1628205911&id=1957577789990731&widgetName=sp_atf


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

DUNU-Topsound said:


> Sure --- we'll definitely keep you in mind. This model is not really the main priority for us at the moment, however, so it's unclear when we'll be introducing it to other markets at this time. The goal for us, currently, is to refresh our older wired product lines, such as the FALCON and TITAN.


There's at least two folks out here that wouldn't mind seeing Dunu go a little crazy with a revision of the Alpha 1 

I'm in absolutely no rush, but I do believe you're sitting on something pretty special with those TWS, especially knowing Dunu's skill with driver tuning. Please don't give up on that project.


----------



## samandhi

+1 on both accounts....


----------



## clerkpalmer

darveniza said:


> Sensing some good testing with the new Klipsch with ANC ,during upcoming travel 😁


Battle of the heavy weights.


----------



## clerkpalmer

DUNU-Topsound said:


> Sure --- we'll definitely keep you in mind. This model is not really the main priority for us at the moment, however, so it's unclear when we'll be introducing it to other markets at this time. The goal for us, currently, is to refresh our older wired product lines, such as the FALCON and TITAN.


I would love to hear your thoughts as to why high end iem companies like Dunu are not embracing true wireless. I firmly believe there is a market for higher end tws. Is it the limitation of bluetooth that holds you back?


----------



## jsmiller58 (Aug 6, 2021)

Caipirina said:


> Some more observations on the XM4 ... now 12h later and well, not that much play time yet .. but some interesting findings
> a) red flashing charging case! Quick google later reveals this is when it gets too hot'n steamy on the charging pad! Can't say I have read that before. Apparently to protect the battery.
> b) I had changed to spinfits and thought about trying for a short run, but with those tips the fit felt less secure and I was not in the mood to change back to memory foam tips .. so, no run test today
> c) While they don't have multipoint, the way I can change between devices is super easy (barely an inconvenience) .. just hold both buds a few seconds, they are in pairing mode and on my Redmi even a window pops up ... no need to look for the phone that was last connected and make it 'forget' those buds.
> ...


“super easy (barely an inconvenience)” a “Screen Rant” fan?


----------



## erockg

@clerkpalmer got them today.  They're great!  Everything I wanted in the T5 and T5IIs to be and more.  Soundstage is comparable to the T5 II non-ANC, but maybe a touch better on the ANC version.  Probably because of DIRAC.  LOVE the case.  The tire-like rubberized texture is so much better than the chrome or the plastic of the sport versions.  Just set them up and will be experimenting.  Wireless charging works like a charm.  Bragi gestures are great, but I do wish there were more.  That said, the do work!  I'll have to compare/contrast with all the others in my collection.


----------



## Kathiravan JLR

Hello Mates,
Recently i got the hands on the Sony WF 1000XM3 and man i got blown away by the sound it produced! This thing punches way above its price point!! The small tiny 6mm DD was able to gave this kind of dynamics in the sound with excellent bass response. The technicalities are above average for a TWS and this just made my Ikko OH10 question that its worth spending a lot on wired iem?! Hope everyone have a good day!


----------



## darveniza

erockg said:


> @clerkpalmer got them today.  They're great!  Everything I wanted in the T5 and T5IIs to be and more.  Soundstage is comparable to the T5 II non-ANC, but maybe a touch better on the ANC version.  Probably because of DIRAC.  LOVE the case.  The tire-like rubberized texture is so much better than the chrome or the plastic of the sport versions.  Just set them up and will be experimenting.  Wireless charging works like a charm.  Bragi gestures are great, but I do wish there were more.  That said, the do work!  I'll have to compare/contrast with all the others in my collection.


Have been doing some quick testing. ANC is not as powerful as Sony or Sennheiser. I am thinking it could be the tips. What is your experience with the warriors????


----------



## Dcell7

New Noble TWS


----------



## Peddler

Regarding the Sony WF1000XM3's - I agree. They exhibit a really 'full' sound like you experience with full sized headphones. They are definitely amongst my favourite bluetooth iems.


----------



## clerkpalmer

scubaphish said:


> Any further thoughts on the Klipsch?


Really enjoying them. I need to do more testing but so far I’d put them up there with the best in terms of sq.


Dcell7 said:


> New Noble TWS


damnit! More money to spend. Where did you find this?


----------



## Dcell7

clerkpalmer said:


> damnit! More money to spend. Where did you find this?


Facebook page of a Noble distributor in Hong Kong.


----------



## tiagopinto

Caipirina said:


> with all the latex / crystal tip talk recently I got curious and checked aliexpress and holi moli .. seriously, 11-12$ for ONE pair?
> 
> just take my money



It’s a small scale but the margins of of this tip rolling habit must be amazing. I haven’t fallen in there yet.


----------



## tiagopinto (Aug 6, 2021)

DUNU-Topsound said:


> Interesting that these pictures have shown up on a Russian forum --- we've only released the DTW1000H to customers in China who pre-ordered the LUNA way back in December 2019. The DTW1000H was one of the perks of the pre-order. Right now, we're still undergoing the international wireless certification process, so it is a China-only model for now. It may be some time before we release it globally, and perhaps only in select markets at first.
> 
> But some quick specs: 1 DD (7.5 mm beryllium-plated) + 2 BA (dual Knowles driver), with a high-end Qualcomm chipset, supporting BT 5.2, AptX Adaptive, and low-latency gaming mode. Battery life is estimated to be around 8 hours of playback, and 40 hours with the charging case.



If by any chance you’re looking for a tester in Europe, namely in Portugal, I can be it. It would be a great honor. 

Dunu, you’ve sparked our interest, very much so. Let me hear those words. Let me hear that sound.


----------



## clerkpalmer

Dcell7 said:


> Facebook page of a Noble distributor in Hong Kong.


Single DD and 2BA. Those could sound superb. Love that Noble is embracing tws. I just don’t do well that stem length.


----------



## scubaphish

clerkpalmer said:


> Really enjoying them. I need to do more testing but so far I’d put them up there with the best in terms of sq.
> 
> damnit! More money to spend. Where did you find this?


Alright, just ordered a set in gun metal color. I’m clearly obsessing over trying them since I can’t stop look at them online.  Looking forward to comparing to PI7.


----------



## clerkpalmer

scubaphish said:


> Alright, just ordered a set in gun metal color. I’m clearly obsessing over trying them since I can’t stop look at them online.  Looking forward to comparing to PI7.


I think they compare favorably. Perhaps not on resolution but I prefer the tonality. Very musical and the soundstage is killer. In the past I wasn’t sold on the fit which is why I avoided them but they are light and comfy. Used them exercising last night and they stayed put fairly well. The ANC isn’t great - basically like all other ANC not named Bose or Sony.


----------



## scubaphish

clerkpalmer said:


> I think they compare favorably. Perhaps not on resolution but I prefer the tonality. Very musical and the soundstage is killer. In the past I wasn’t sold on the fit which is why I avoided them but they are light and comfy. Used them exercising last night and they stayed put fairly well. The ANC isn’t great - basically like all other ANC not named Bose or Sony.


The perceived small size (let alone the Klipsch name) was a selling point.


----------



## bubsdaddy

DUNU-Topsound said:


> Interesting that these pictures have shown up on a Russian forum --- we've only released the DTW1000H to customers in China who pre-ordered the LUNA way back in December 2019. The DTW1000H was one of the perks of the pre-order. Right now, we're still undergoing the international wireless certification process, so it is a China-only model for now. It may be some time before we release it globally, and perhaps only in select markets at first.
> 
> But some quick specs: 1 DD (7.5 mm beryllium-plated) + 2 BA (dual Knowles driver), with a high-end Qualcomm chipset, supporting BT 5.2, AptX Adaptive, and low-latency gaming mode. Battery life is estimated to be around 8 hours of playback, and 40 hours with the charging case.


I would definitely trade up from my Tridents for these.


----------



## erockg

darveniza said:


> Have been doing some quick testing. ANC is not as powerful as Sony or Sennheiser. I am thinking it could be the tips. What is your experience with the warriors????


Definitely not as powerful as the Sony XM4s but the passive isolation makes up for it for me.  I don't have my Sennies anymore to compare.


----------



## Kathiravan JLR

Peddler said:


> Regarding the Sony WF1000XM3's - I agree. They exhibit a really 'full' sound like you experience with full sized headphones. They are definitely amongst my favourite bluetooth iems.


Nice to hear bro... Between tried the XM4? In India they are not yet launched!


----------



## Sandbox2 (Aug 6, 2021)

Anyone here heard of rtings.com?  Wish head-fi had something similar to what they're doing..but they test only popular options since that's what people vote on to be tested.  The sony wf 1000 xm4 suprisingly scored lower than the galaxy buds + because it had low treble accuracy (?). They currently think Samsung Galaxy Buds+ are the best wireless earbuds.


Found that someone already suggested Noble Falcon:  https://www.rtings.com/headphones/suggestions  but it's not popular enough to be voted/tested on.


Rtings doesn't seem to like Cambridge Audio very much: 
https://www.rtings.com/headphones/reviews/cambridge-audio/melomania-1-plus-true-wireless
https://www.rtings.com/headphones/reviews/cambridge-audio/melomania-1-truly-wireless


----------



## tinyman392

Sandbox2 said:


> Anyone here heard of rtings.com?  Wish head-fi had something similar to what they're doing..but they test only popular options since that's what people vote on to be tested.  The sony wf 1000 xm4 suprisingly scored lower than the galaxy buds + because it had low treble accuracy (?). They currently think Samsung Galaxy Buds+ are the best wireless earbuds.
> 
> 
> Found that someone already suggested Noble Falcon:  https://www.rtings.com/headphones/suggestions  but it's not popular enough to be voted/tested on.
> ...


I’ve never been a fan of RTings. Their subjective impressions never seem to align, even with the general majority of those in Head-Fi. It’s like they try to read the graph but mess up somewhere. Their graphs themselves are fine though. I just don’t trust their subjective impressions. Part of me feels like they don’t actually listen to the headphones and just try to read graphs.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

tinyman392 said:


> I’ve never been a fan of RTings. Their subjective impressions never seem to align, even with the general majority of those in Head-Fi. It’s like they try to read the graph but mess up somewhere. Their graphs themselves are fine though. I just don’t trust their subjective impressions. Part of me feels like they don’t actually listen to the headphones and just try to read graphs.


From the outside in, they look like a review mill. Take that for what you will, but I probably wouldn't take too much credence to the opinion portions of their reviews. They're a decent resource for specifications, though, and I do tend to find their picture adjustment settings in the TV sections to be pretty good.


----------



## erockg

tinyman392 said:


> I’ve never been a fan of RTings. Their subjective impressions never seem to align, even with the general majority of those in Head-Fi. It’s like they try to read the graph but mess up somewhere. Their graphs themselves are fine though. I just don’t trust their subjective impressions. Part of me feels like they don’t actually listen to the headphones and just try to read graphs.


RTings also doesn't take into consideration EQ and stuff like that.  For example, they don't rate Nura that high, but after you run their Personalized EQ process, the headphones shine.  I only go to RTings when I want to compare and contrast what others have to say.  Then I make my own judgements.


----------



## dj24 (Aug 6, 2021)

Speaking of the Sonys, secondpity via eBay has the WF-1000XM3 (Refurbished, Black or Silver) for *$67.99* after coupon code *B2SCRSAVING.  *Not bad for one of the truly great ANC TWS sets out there.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

dj24 said:


> Speaking of the Sonys, secondpity via eBay has the WF-1000XM3 (Refurbished, Black or Silver) for *$67.99* after coupon code *B2SCRSAVING.  *Not bad for one of the truly great ANC TWS sets out there.


Nice deal! I've been waiting for them to go sub-$100, but it's not the right time for me and I think I have my stable figured out for now. Hope someone manages to jump in on that, though.


----------



## Darkestred

Sandbox2 said:


> Anyone here heard of rtings.com?  Wish head-fi had something similar to what they're doing..but they test only popular options since that's what people vote on to be tested.  The sony wf 1000 xm4 suprisingly scored lower than the galaxy buds + because it had low treble accuracy (?). They currently think Samsung Galaxy Buds+ are the best wireless earbuds.
> 
> 
> Found that someone already suggested Noble Falcon:  https://www.rtings.com/headphones/suggestions  but it's not popular enough to be voted/tested on.
> ...


Rtings is pretty much a joke for audio.  I can't recall the specifics but their rating system works something like this:

Iem a:treble not great 7.6
Iem b: treble. is awesome 7.4


----------



## clerkpalmer

Not sure what’s up with these oval tips from Klipsch but they are really small. Had to go to xl for a seal. Usually medium suffices for me. Having trouble finding a good fit with these and tips seem proprietary. Fine sitting still but once you start moving forget about it. Not talking about running. Just lifting weights.


----------



## erockg

clerkpalmer said:


> Not sure what’s up with these oval tips from Klipsch but they are really small. Had to go to xl for a seal. Usually medium suffices for me. Having trouble finding a good fit with these and tips seem proprietary. Fine sitting still but once you start moving forget about it. Not talking about running. Just lifting weights.


I use the XL tips too.  You should call Klipsch and tell them you're having fit issues when working out.  They can send you the wingtips from the sport version.  I have a pair of unused Large if you want them.  Just message me your address and I'll pop them in a USPS First Class envelope


----------



## clerkpalmer (Aug 6, 2021)

erockg said:


> I use the XL tips too.  You should call Klipsch and tell them you're having fit issues when working out.  They can send you the wingtips from the sport version.  I have a pair of unused Large if you want them.  Just message me your address and I'll pop them in a USPS First Class envelope


Thanks man. Very nice of you. I may take you up on that. I’ll try Klipsch on Monday and see if they can hook me up. If not, I’ll hit you up. The XL definitely help. Not sure what they were thinking. I don’t really have large ears. On a positive note, really enjoy them. How do you like em v the mw08. I think I know the answer but want to hear it from you …


----------



## erockg

clerkpalmer said:


> Thanks man. Very nice of you. I may take you up on that. I’ll try Klipsch on Monday and see if they can hook me up. If not, I’ll hit you up. The XL definitely help. Not sure what they were thinking. I don’t really have large ears. On a positive note, really enjoy them. How do you like em v the mw08. I think I know the answer but want to hear it from you …


I have to listen more.  I still love the Devialet.  The soundstage is just awesome.  That said, I'm REALLY liking these T5 II ANC.  Klipsch did learn from all their previous mistakes and wow, the Bragi gestures are great.  I was using the skip track gesture all day while WFH.


----------



## clerkpalmer

erockg said:


> I have to listen more.  I still love the Devialet.  The soundstage is just awesome.  That said, I'm REALLY liking these T5 II ANC.  Klipsch did learn from all their previous mistakes and wow, the Bragi gestures are great.  I was using the skip track gesture all day while WFH.


I need to pull my Gemini out of hibernation. The gestures are indeed awesome.


----------



## jsmiller58

Looking for any suggestions…  I have the Status Between Pro, and a couple of days ago the right bud‘s volume dropped by half.  Not sure what is going on.  Has anyone else experienced this?  If yes, is there a fix, or do I need to return them (have only had them for about 4 weeks)?  Thanks in advance!


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

jsmiller58 said:


> Looking for any suggestions…  I have the Status Between Pro, and a couple of days ago the right bud‘s volume dropped by half.  Not sure what is going on.  Has anyone else experienced this?  If yes, is there a fix, or do I need to return them (have only had them for about 4 weeks)?  Thanks in advance!


Possibly a clogged nozzle. Have a q-tip, some hydrogen peroxide, and a little patience? Managed to save a set of Kanas Pro that had a channel imbalance that way. Just a massive exercise in patience (you've been warned hahaha).

Realistically, going the exchange route would be ideal but this is Status we're talking about. I suppose it might be worth it to see if they cross-ship.


----------



## jsmiller58

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Possibly a clogged nozzle. Have a q-tip, some hydrogen peroxide, and a little patience? Managed to save a set of Kanas Pro that had a channel imbalance that way. Just a massive exercise in patience (you've been warned hahaha).
> 
> Realistically, going the exchange route would be ideal but this is Status we're talking about. I suppose it might be worth it to see if they cross-ship.


I am definitely willing to give it a go!  Not sure how the nozzles could be clogged since there is that cloth (?) covering over the nozzles, but will definitely try before I reach out to Status…


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

jsmiller58 said:


> I am definitely willing to give it a go!  Not sure how the nozzles could be clogged since there is that cloth (?) covering over the nozzles, but will definitely try before I reach out to Status…


I mean a clogged nozzle would be my first guess. Something else could have happened, for all I know, but that's a pretty non-destructive way to check. Not a requirement, but an ok alternative if Status can't get a replacement to you very quickly.


----------



## jsmiller58

miserybeforethemusic said:


> I mean a clogged nozzle would be my first guess. Something else could have happened, for all I know, but that's a pretty non-destructive way to check. Not a requirement, but an ok alternative if Status can't get a replacement to you very quickly.


To check should I remove the filter that covers the end of the nozzle?


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

jsmiller58 said:


> To check should I remove the filter that covers the end of the nozzle?


Not unless you have one to replace it. The fabric is porous, anyway, so peroxide would do the same trick. Just don't overdo it or you'll end up soaking the BAs.


----------



## DUNU-Topsound

clerkpalmer said:


> I would love to hear your thoughts as to why high end iem companies like Dunu are not embracing true wireless. I firmly believe there is a market for higher end tws. Is it the limitation of bluetooth that holds you back?



It's not that we're *not* embracing true wireless. Wireless earphones are here and they are here to stay. We can only speak for ourselves (though the same limitations may apply to other earphone companies that specialize in the premium/high-end audio space), but the main limitation for us is that we don't have the personnel to optimize the coding side of things and give people the gadgety trappings they crave.

We're a small company, as are most of our counterparts. This means we're going to lag behind the software/firmware prowess of an Apple, Google, or Samsung. Companies like Qualcomm have made it easier to get things done, but at the end of the day, we have to be the ones doing the legwork, and we just don't have that many legs.

Take the DTW1000H, for instance. We've been working on it since early 2019. We had ONE single engineer taking care of the entire project, hardware and firmware, with our head engineer Andy checking in occasionally. The project transformed from a low-cost, sub-$100 true wireless solution to a more premium setup --- hence the 1 Be DD + 2 BA design. Along the way, the one single engineer had to not only switch from a lower-cost Bluetooth module to a higher-end one, but also try to apply all of the new features along the way, in addition to the sound tuning. We also had to temporarily pull him away to help us with a couple of our recent wired releases, so he hasn't been 100% on this project either.

The other thing does have to do with what you mentioned. Bluetooth modules are getting better and more power efficient. However, they are still not geared towards delivering great power. Earphones, particularly multi-BA and hybrid setups, tend to be current hungry. Without a dedicated amplifier, they will make enough SPL, but will tend to sound a bit anemic, negating the headroom advantage of multi-BA setups. There are a few companies who have developed low-power amplifier ICs meant for use in true wireless applications, but so far they have both limited parts availability and limited prior experience in implementation. The few implementations that have come to market have not been on true wireless products, but for neckband and earhook applications, both of which allow for more battery capacity. For instance, we've had a premium Bluetooth neckband product in development that implements such an amplifier module.

The last challenge is order volume. We are not tooled for producing true wireless products, so we have to work with another OEM, and true wireless earphone products must be produced at a minimum volume, not only for its housings, but also its electronics. With the rate of turnover for components and current product update cycles, if a company is unable to keep up, it's certain to be swept up in the maelstrom that is the consumerist rinse cycle. Perhaps some companies can afford to put minimal effort into sound tuning (often an ODM/OEM will do it for them and allow them to choose between different sound signatures) and focus on features such as ANC, transparency modes, etc. but specialty audio companies like us can't, and so we have to be much more cautious with where we sink our investments.

Hope this helps elucidate some of the reasons why there aren't more 'traditional' companies doing the true wireless thing. We would love to offer something great in this space; heck, our distributors ask all the time as well. But we can only move so fast.


----------



## samandhi

DUNU-Topsound said:


> It's not that we're *not* embracing true wireless. Wireless earphones are here and they are here to stay. We can only speak for ourselves (though the same limitations may apply to other earphone companies that specialize in the premium/high-end audio space), but the main limitation for us is that we don't have the personnel to optimize the coding side of things and give people the gadgety trappings they crave.
> 
> We're a small company, as are most of our counterparts. This means we're going to lag behind the software/firmware prowess of an Apple, Google, or Samsung. Companies like Qualcomm have made it easier to get things done, but at the end of the day, we have to be the ones doing the legwork, and we just don't have that many legs.
> 
> ...


WOW! A very thorough explanation. I would say, you just keep doing what you are doing. I for one enjoy what you have (though I can't wait to see those TWS also).


----------



## senorbroom

DUNU-Topsound said:


> It's not that we're *not* embracing true wireless. Wireless earphones are here and they are here to stay. We can only speak for ourselves (though the same limitations may apply to other earphone companies that specialize in the premium/high-end audio space), but the main limitation for us is that we don't have the personnel to optimize the coding side of things and give people the gadgety trappings they crave.
> 
> We're a small company, as are most of our counterparts. This means we're going to lag behind the software/firmware prowess of an Apple, Google, or Samsung. Companies like Qualcomm have made it easier to get things done, but at the end of the day, we have to be the ones doing the legwork, and we just don't have that many legs.
> 
> ...


Very enlightening post, thank you.


----------



## Caipirina

jsmiller58 said:


> “super easy (barely an inconvenience)” a “Screen Rant” fan?


Can’t say ‘super easy’ anymore without the rest  watched one or 2 pitch meetings too many


----------



## Caipirina (Aug 7, 2021)

jasonb said:


> select "this mobile" then press the 3 dots in the top corner


Thank you sooooo much for the details. I am going to test that out in a bit, but as I learned from elsewhere, it might be that the snapdragon 622 chip can do max AptX adaptive. In the meantime I found something else I will post about in a bit.

Edit: apparently I am missing those Bluetooth Output settings ...


----------



## Caipirina

DUNU-Topsound said:


> Interesting that these pictures have shown up on a Russian forum --- we've only released the DTW1000H to customers in China who pre-ordered the LUNA way back in December 2019. The DTW1000H was one of the perks of the pre-order. Right now, we're still undergoing the international wireless certification process, so it is a China-only model for now. It may be some time before we release it globally, and perhaps only in select markets at first.
> 
> But some quick specs: 1 DD (7.5 mm beryllium-plated) + 2 BA (dual Knowles driver), with a high-end Qualcomm chipset, supporting BT 5.2, AptX Adaptive, and low-latency gaming mode. Battery life is estimated to be around 8 hours of playback, and 40 hours with the charging case.


Love that case!


----------



## Caipirina (Aug 7, 2021)

Kathiravan JLR said:


> Hello Mates,
> Recently i got the hands on the Sony WF 1000XM3 and man i got blown away by the sound it produced! This thing punches way above its price point!! The small tiny 6mm DD was able to gave this kind of dynamics in the sound with excellent bass response. The technicalities are above average for a TWS and this just made my Ikko OH10 question that its worth spending a lot on wired iem?! Hope everyone have a good day!


Funny, I recall when the XM3 were 230USD and with this some of the most expensive TWS around .. .now hearing they are 'punching way above their pice' is .. surreal ...
How much did you pay? 12990 rupees on Amazon's today's deal is still 175$ ...  but better than the original 20K INR


----------



## Ferdze

Isn't there any wireless technology that is fast enough to transfer hi-fi music?


----------



## Caipirina

After being unsuccessful getting LDAC activated on my cheapo Redmi phone (most likely the SD 622 can’t handle it), I thought I check on AliExpress what they have in LDAC Player flavor. And it is hilarious what dares showing up!

But I find mentions on some Shanlings with LDAC, but my 2018 m3s is not among those.
Then I see … my TempoTec V1 ! A small
Player I specifically bought for Bluetooth TWS … and wow, what a tag team with the XM4!



Initially I was freaked out how silent everything was. Had to dial the player all the way to 100 to hear something. Then I realized that volume control on player & buds work independently! Was totally dialed down on the buds. Now all is fine. 
can I hear a difference yet? Need more critical listening. I ‘think’ I do, but that could be just excitement


----------



## assassin10000

Caipirina said:


> After being unsuccessful getting LDAC activated on my cheapo Redmi phone (most likely the SD 622 can’t handle it), I thought I check on AliExpress what they have in LDAC Player flavor. And it is hilarious what dares showing up!
> 
> But I find mentions on some Shanlings with LDAC, but my 2018 m3s is not among those.
> Then I see … my TempoTec V1 ! A small
> ...


FYI above 76% volume (23/30) the FR curve starts changing.









At least myself and a few others heard it. Then I verified with my IMM-6 setup.

I set mine to 73% (22/30) then disabled volume control on the buds (control via phone instead). Ymmv.


----------



## SemiAudiophile (Aug 7, 2021)

DUNU-Topsound said:


> Take the DTW1000H, for instance. We've been working on it since early 2019. We had ONE single engineer taking care of the entire project, hardware and firmware, with our head engineer Andy checking in occasionally. The project transformed from a low-cost, sub-$100 true wireless solution to a more premium setup --- hence the 1 Be DD + 2 BA design. Along the way, the one single engineer had to not only switch from a lower-cost Bluetooth module to a higher-end one, but also try to apply all of the new features along the way, in addition to the sound tuning. We also had to temporarily pull him away to help us with a couple of our recent wired releases, so he hasn't been 100% on this project either.


Is that a beryllium DD in the DTW1000H? Would truly be interested if it ever gets released. 

Edit: nvm, I see the earlier post now. That's awesome. I hope future TWS will be able to support higher bitrate codec like LDAC, etc. It's power consuming I know, but man can only dream.


----------



## clerkpalmer

SemiAudiophile said:


> Is that a beryllium DD in the DTW1000H? Would truly be interested if it ever gets released.
> 
> Edit: nvm, I see the earlier post now. That's awesome. I hope future TWS will be able to support higher bitrate codec like LDAC, etc. It's power consuming I know, but man can only dream.


We have LDAC and AptxHD available now. No need to dream.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

You know...after that most recent Cambridge update, I think it's time to revisit the top rankings. Again, these are primarily focused on the two (imo) most important criteria: SQ and stability:


Melomania Touch + EPro tips
Falcon Pro + Azla XELASTEC tips
UE FITS
Technics AZ70W
Jabra Elite 85t
The MT is certainly not the most tonally accurate TWS out there; in fact, it's because of its severe colorations to the bass and lower mids that I think it has its character to begin with. If you're lucky enough to have a set of tips that fix some of the ergonomics (both the Azla Crystal and EPro TW00 do a great job with that) and don't compromise fitment in the case, I think you'll find them to be a grand slam as well. Truth be told, what I got from the MT is what I was hoping to get from the JBL Club Pro + and have yet to see. Haven't given up on it yet, though.

Cambridge deserves all the kudos they can get for this most recent update; I know the road has been long and hard, but I think it's finally here and ready to be meaningfully compared to all the flagship offerings that are coming out of the woodwork. Good job, guys.


----------



## samandhi

miserybeforethemusic said:


> You know...after that most recent Cambridge update, I think it's time to revisit the top rankings. Again, these are primarily focused on the two (imo) most important criteria: SQ and stability:
> 
> 
> Melomania Touch + EPro tips
> ...


For myself, I have not noticed much of a difference in the updates. I have never had any issues with mine (other than 2 or 3 times one would suddenly disconnect). But I tend to agree with your assessment on their tenacity with which they work on them. I would also rank these as top of my list for TWS (though I DO try and listen to all of them at some point). 

As for the newest FW update I noticed a few differences that hasn't been mentioned (that I know of), though some of this could have happened in the last FW update and I missed it. 

Using volume on the player (DAP/phone) no longer changes the volume on the MT at all. Now I haven't tried switching "absolute volume" in options, but this never effected them before other than to separate the system volume from the onboard volume or to combine them. Never ONLY the MT volume.
"hear-through" mode is now volume adjustable in the app. This could have happened in the last FW, because I noticed then that the volume was lower than previously. I just never thought to look in the app for it. I have always just used the triple tap to enable/disable it. So maybe it was indeed there, but not defaulted to 50% like it was after this update.
  For myself, I have not noticed any change in tuning, but it has been a while since I listened to them because I have been collecting new earbuds recently and trying to burn them in has taken most of my listening time. 
As usual for my set, I had no issues updating them at all. It always takes a while, but I simply get the process started and just "let er eat".. 

I guess if I had to rank the ones I currently own I would do so thusly (note that the ranking isn't JUST sound quality, but overall satisfaction):

Cambridge Audio Melomania Touch + Spinfit CP360
Bose Soundsport Free (OG version) + stock medium StayHear wings
Nuarl N6 Pro + Final Type E
Hifiman TWS600 + either stock or Final Type E
I think I would like to add those new DUNU TWS, but I suppose I can wait for a while (especially since I am broke in the hobby fund atm anyhow).


----------



## CJYYZ

miserybeforethemusic said:


> You know...after that most recent Cambridge update, I think it's time to revisit the top rankings. Again, these are primarily focused on the two (imo) most important criteria: SQ and stability:
> 
> 
> Melomania Touch + EPro tips
> ...


I'd really like to try the Melomania Touch. The form factor looks like it would be a secure fit.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic (Aug 7, 2021)

CJYYZ said:


> I'd really like to try the Melomania Touch. The form factor looks like it would be a secure fit.


It's almost all the way there for me in stock form, but either of my tip recommendations bring it the rest of the way. I do recommend the MT for you, but they seem to be fairly hard to get your hands on now.

Wonder why that would be...


----------



## clerkpalmer

CJYYZ said:


> I'd really like to try the Melomania Touch. The form factor looks like it would be a secure fit.


Fit me great in stock form - medium tips. Fit is personal but they are winners.


----------



## BooleanBones

miserybeforethemusic said:


> It's almost all the way there for me in stock form, but either of my tip recommendations bring it the rest of the way. I do recommend the MT for you, but they seem to be fairly hard to get your hands on now.
> 
> Wonder why that would be...


I concur. Your recommendations on tips have been spot on for me. Running the EPros on my MTs and the Final TWS on my XM4s and very happy. How often do you clean yours BTW?


----------



## clerkpalmer

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Wonder why that would be...


Probably because the ANC/LDAC version is right around the corner …


----------



## jsmiller58

clerkpalmer said:


> Probably because the ANC/LDAC version is right around the corner …


Here's to hoping that you are right!


----------



## jsmiller58

Caipirina said:


> Can’t say ‘super easy’ anymore without the rest  watched one or 2 pitch meetings too many


"too many"?  No such thing!


----------



## clerkpalmer

jsmiller58 said:


> Here's to hoping that you are right!


Don’t keep us waiting @misery.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

BooleanBones said:


> I concur. Your recommendations on tips have been spot on for me. Running the EPros on my MTs and the Final TWS on my XM4s and very happy. How often do you clean yours BTW?


I go for a slightly different approach and clean my ears pretty frequently so I don't have to mess with the tips. That being said, I aim for washing all my silicone tips weekly and just did a trial run with the XELASTEC using just room temp water and a drop of Dawn soap. Finished it off in a wash of 91% isopropyl to make sure no residues are left behind.

If you've got some particular problem children for tips (ie they're extra-waxy), 3% hydrogen peroxide is your friend. Just fill a small glass with a 50/50 mix of peroxide and water and let the tips soak for at least 15 minutes. Peroxide really tends to soften wax. They'll need a rinse step afterwards, though.


----------



## Tommy C

miserybeforethemusic said:


> You know...after that most recent Cambridge update, I think it's time to revisit the top rankings. Again, these are primarily focused on the two (imo) most important criteria: SQ and stability:
> 
> 
> Melomania Touch + EPro tips
> ...


Great summary!
Where would you place the ADV M5 and Falcon 2 on your list?


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

clerkpalmer said:


> Probably because the ANC/LDAC version is right around the corner …


I don't know and, even if I did, I wouldn't be able to talk about it anyway. Fingers crossed, though. Both would be fantastic additions.


Tommy C said:


> Great summary!
> Where would you place the ADV M5 and Falcon 2 on your list?


I have the Falcon 1 (not 2), but pretty sure the only difference between the two is BT chip and case. Tried to keep the list at a top 5, but Falcon 1 would probably take slot 6 with the ADV sitting in slot 7. They're both great, but I prefer the Falcon's midrange tuning, even if it can be a bit more brittle, on prog. The ADV is more sit-in-a-theater vs the Falcon's in-your-face presentation.


----------



## erockg

Picked up the Libratone Air+ 2nd gen.  TINY.  ANC kills the fan in my office.  Definitely not awful.  No Sonys.  Sound is clean.  Decent soundstage.  Wireless charging.  Transparency.  Incredibly light.  QCC5141 chip.  BT 5.2.  APTX and AAC.  Had the first gen and really liked them.  This version kicks it up a notch.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

erockg said:


> Picked up the Libratone Air+ 2nd gen.  TINY.  ANC kills the fan in my office.  Definitely not awful.  No Sonys.  Sound is clean.  Decent soundstage.  Wireless charging.  Transparency.  Incredibly light.  QCC5141 chip.  BT 5.2.  APTX and AAC.  Had the first gen and really liked them.  This version kicks it up a notch.


I remember you told me about those Air. Didn't know you'd grabbed the 2nd gen. What's your take on tip comfort?


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

Ok, so that's new and bizarre. I checked the BT stack via system settings and it's definitely selected to aptX Adaptive. How is this even on the GUI?



Might have something to do with that other Noble TWS spotted in the wild. @FullCircle any insights as to when we'll see more on that model and why LDAC is appearing here with the Falcon Pro?


----------



## clerkpalmer

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Ok, so that's new and bizarre. I checked the BT stack via system settings and it's definitely selected to aptX Adaptive. How is this even on the GUI?
> 
> 
> 
> Might have something to do with that other Noble TWS spotted in the wild. @FullCircle any insights as to when we'll see more on that model and why LDAC is appearing here with the Falcon Pro?


Is it possible LDAC was in the chipset but not activated initially?  Perhaps a software snafu?


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

clerkpalmer said:


> Is it possible LDAC was in the chipset but not activated initially?  Perhaps a software snafu?


Yeah, I think it's a GUI thing. Probably coding up for a future release.


----------



## erockg

miserybeforethemusic said:


> I remember you told me about those Air. Didn't know you'd grabbed the 2nd gen. What's your take on tip comfort?


Using them now and feels like there's nothing in my ears.  They don't go in deep, just sit sort of like AirPods Pro.


----------



## webvan

Didn't know there was a v2 of the Libratone Air+, what do they say they changed ?
The v1 wasn't very good, very limited button controls, ANC couldn't be turned off and they tended to pop out of my ears. I think I'd switched to other tips for better passive isolation but it still wasn't great and the overall isolation, passive+active, wasn't a patch on the EchoBuds v1.


----------



## erockg

webvan said:


> Didn't know there was a v2 of the Libratone Air+, what do they say they changed ?
> The v1 wasn't very good, very limited button controls, ANC couldn't be turned off and they tended to pop out of my ears. I think I'd switched to other tips for better passive isolation but it still wasn't great and the overall isolation, passive+active, wasn't a patch on the EchoBuds v1.


V1 had a firmware update later on that added button controls et al.  I believe they re-released a 2020 version as well with the new firmware pre-installed.  

I'm getting great isolation with them and the get loud.  Very much enjoying them.  No fit issue.  But I didn't get these for the ANC that I get from my Nuratrue, Devialet or Sony XM4.  These are great for a low profile, toss in my pocket, tiny great sounding buds.

You can see the new specs here:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B08VDJ62HY/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1


----------



## webvan

Thanks, they don't seem to be available in Europe yet oddly enough, at least not on Amazon. The design doesn't seem very different so I'm surprised they claim a shallower insertion, can't see a reason not to give them a miss


----------



## BooleanBones

erockg said:


> Using them now and feels like there's nothing in my ears.  They don't go in deep, just sit sort of like AirPods Pro.


What about your new T5 IIs? Those seemed to dig deep in my ears on the previous version. I did not play around much with tips as I had too much connectivity issues with them, so they were fast tracked back to the seller.


----------



## scubaphish

BooleanBones said:


> What about your new T5 IIs? Those seemed to dig deep in my ears on the previous version. I did not play around much with tips as I had too much connectivity issues with them, so they were fast tracked back to the seller.


I just got them today. Finding it difficult to get a good seal/fit. I think it’s affecting bass response and ANC. Still experimenting


----------



## erockg

scubaphish said:


> I just got them today. Finding it difficult to get a good seal/fit. I think it’s affecting bass response and ANC. Still experimenting


XL tips worked for me.  Also, they make foam tips.  Try calling Klipsch to get a pair.


----------



## scubaphish (Aug 7, 2021)

erockg said:


> XL tips worked for me.  Also, they make foam tips.  Try calling Klipsch to get a pair.


Thanks. I just realized the default tips are medium vs medium+ in the fit set. Better. Still turned bass up all the way on eq. Wait, have I become a bass head in my old age?

edit: not saying I want boomy EDM, but I want to hear a funky bass line get laid down


----------



## samandhi

scubaphish said:


> Thanks. I just realized the default tips are medium vs medium+ in the fit set. Better. Still turned bass up all the way on eq. Wait, have I become a bass head in my old age?


LOL

My suggestion is to turn off the EQ and just force yourself to listen for a few days?! Then EQ to your taste if they still sound off to you.


----------



## jant71 (Aug 7, 2021)

clerkpalmer said:


> Single DD and 2BA. Those could sound superb. Love that Noble is embracing tws. I just don’t do well that stem length.


Sure yet this isn't just a facelifted Falcon Pro for the HK market? I read 7.5 hours battery life. Smaller battery in there or perhaps some amp though that would be mentioned right? Not sure why this would be announced only in HK and nothing elsewhere. I did wait and checked today but nothing else.

Another triple hybrid for $199...




Just aptX and 5 hour battery life so not really exciting unless you love Fender and think they would hit it out of the park soundwise. Looks nice though but not a slam dunk to me. 

I also had the first Fender wireless top model and the BT connection was the worst for a semi-cable that I ever had so I am certainly leery about dropouts here. Perhaps, hopefully, they learned and did much better.


----------



## Tommy C

jant71 said:


> Sure yet this isn't just a facelifted Falcon Pro for the HK market? I read 7.5 hours battery life. Smaller battery in there or perhaps some amp though that would be mentioned right? Not sure why this would be announced only in HK and nothing elsewhere. I did wait and checked today but nothing else.
> 
> Another triple hybrid for $199...
> 
> ...


For $200 from Fender, FWIW if it has an app and a triple driver? colour me curious


----------



## erockg

scubaphish said:


> Thanks. I just realized the default tips are medium vs medium+ in the fit set. Better. Still turned bass up all the way on eq. Wait, have I become a bass head in my old age?


Yeah, lol, I turn up the bass too on them.  That said, the Klipsch don't have as much bass response as the Devialet, the MW08s and others.  But man, I'm really diggin' the sound on them.


----------



## scubaphish (Aug 7, 2021)

erockg said:


> Yeah, lol, I turn up the bass too on them.  That said, the Klipsch don't have as much bass response as the Devialet, the MW08s and others.  But man, I'm really diggin' the sound on them.


Yeah, I think I’m starting to like them, too. That said, comparing them to the PI7, which I’m also really a fan of; and lots of bass response


----------



## jant71

Tommy C said:


> For $200 from Fender, FWIW if it has an app and a triple driver? colour me curious


There is an unboxing vid from a few weeks ago...


There is an app...


----------



## clerkpalmer

samandhi said:


> LOL
> 
> My suggestion is to turn off the EQ and just force yourself to listen for a few days?! Then EQ to your taste if they still sound off to you.


Agree. There’s no lack of bass on these. Maybe not bass head but lots of nice punchy bass with no bleed. I’ve been listening to them on flat.


----------



## clerkpalmer

erockg said:


> Yeah, lol, I turn up the bass too on them.  That said, the Klipsch don't have as much bass response as the Devialet, the MW08s and others.  But man, I'm really diggin' the sound on them.


The gemini have the closest thing to sub bass I’ve heard on a tws. It’s really deep. Almost like a subwoofer.


----------



## helmutcheese (Aug 8, 2021)

FYLegend said:


> Finally, Windows 11 Beta has rolled out, with Bluetooth AAC codec support! Now I can say goodbye to the crappy SBC bitpool of the Galaxy Buds+. It sounds much clearer, though I do find the treble a bit peaky (which may just be in my head or due to other factors).
> 
> I do wonder if anyone can confirm if Windows 10 21H2 has it too. It was initially slated and included in the preview channel build for Win10 but they quickly jumped to Win11 but as many devices can't be updated I wonder if AAC support will only be on Win11.


Two things since topic is codecs.

1) aptX did not come with the Win 10 launch as someone here said, it was silently added in one of feature updates, before that the only way was using hacked Dell drivers on Intel Bluetooth chips only

2) AAC was added to Win 10 Dev builds months ago, so not only Win 11 but not sure if it is in the latest official Windows 10 build had it.

AAC does not seem to be limited to 250k as it is VBR and I normally connect at 300-300k but I would rather it would prioritise aptX over AAC but it does not so will need a way to switch codec someday now as SBC/aptX/ACC support


----------



## scubaphish

clerkpalmer said:


> Agree. There’s no lack of bass on these. Maybe not bass head but lots of nice punchy bass with no bleed. I’ve been listening to them on flat.


Have to agree there, back on flat and definitely catching the bass. Really enjoying the snare drum and high hats, too. Just have to find right fit. Up to large tips now. Odd how these feel like they should go far into ear canal while at same time sealing on outer part of canal.


----------



## krenzler

Flossy approved.


----------



## regancipher

Robius said:


> Are there anyone who bought the new Fiil CC Pro? Some reviews say they have the best ANC to date. They'r advertising 39dB noise cancelling.



I finally tested and reviewed them here

Not great overall, the Edifier Neobuds Pro blow them away in every aspect


----------



## regancipher

Juturna said:


> Did anybody in here get the Edifier Neobuds Pro? Except the person who ordered and then cancelled, obviously.
> I'm curious as to whether they actually sound any good, besides the older bluetooth codec and lack of wireless charging they seem very solid for the money.


Yeah I got them. Still drafting a review. ANC is very good, the best I've tested in the budget end. Sound is decent enough, although way too bassy.


----------



## Sandbox2

Any thoughts on the Moondrop Blessing2 1DD 4BA Hybrid? Thinking of pairing it with the TRN BT20S PRO Bluetooth.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

Sandbox2 said:


> Any thoughts on the Moondrop Blessing2 1DD 4BA Hybrid? Thinking of pairing it with the TRN BT20S PRO Bluetooth.


I use the Blessing 2 with my CF01 using a set of OE MMCX-2pin adapters. It is a little power-hungry and you can hear that in the reduction of bass resolution and a little brittleness in the mids. Fantastically-comfortable combination, though. Not sure if the more fixed arm of the TRN adapters will mess with ergonomics, but it's been a great experiment in my case.


----------



## jant71

So, looked for more on the Fender and found not much more except one thing. That pic I posted seems to be a mistake. Everywhere else the Tour are only a 1 driver and have no armatures. Again no ambient or other features and you can only use the left side by itself for single side use.

I applaud any guinea pigs but still say they don't look so hot. No reviews I found even though out in HK late last year is a bit scary. One unboxing vid that said a review was coming but not yet. Might find some time in 9 months to get a short one done but nope. Very iffy since they are here on Amazon but not here... https://www.fender.com/en-US/headphones/


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

jant71 said:


> So, looked for more on the Fender and found not much more except one thing. That pic I posted seems to be a mistake. Everywhere else the Tour are only a 1 driver and have no armatures. Again no ambient or other features and you can only use the left side by itself for single side use.
> 
> I applaud any guinea pigs but still say they don't look so hot. No reviews I found even though out in HK late last year is a bit scary. One unboxing vid that said a review was coming but not yet. Might find some time in 9 months to get a short one done but nope. Very iffy since they are here on Amazon but not here... https://www.fender.com/en-US/headphones/


I haven't seen it as much else than a licensing play. Fender's CIEM market is really bizarre. Honestly not sure why they're not taking a lesson from the Marshall-branded stuff. It's going to end up being the same outcome.


----------



## jant71

miserybeforethemusic said:


> I haven't seen it as much else than a licensing play. Fender's CIEM market is really bizarre. Honestly not sure why they're not taking a lesson from the Marshall-branded stuff. It's going to end up being the same outcome.




Most likely a trial run in HK first. Here now and sold by Fender on Amazon but nothing about them as far as sound and how well they work is scary. No news is not good news. Again the $129 Puresonic premium wireless I had was unusable with the bad connection. I got them for $50 so I was not trusting that one till it was too cheap to pass up but not even at $50 could I put up with the constant drop outs.


----------



## Devodonaldson

TK33 said:


> I use the Galaxy Buds Live for cycling primarily because of their lack of noise cancelling.  I ride a road bike in NY so I need to be able to hear my surroundings. I do start to get wind noise at 15-16 mph though but not sure if there is a better solution. Let's me hear my GPS and calls.


Buds live ANC definitely does work, just not in the way people first expected. I did a test. Had them in my ears, no music playing while driving on the highway. Major road noise as expected. I then turned on the ANC, and noticed that the road noise was in fact attenuated a noticeable amount, while still hearing everything,  just at a lower level. I think that was the point of the LIVE name


----------



## teotuf

Been testing these for last week or so with different types of tips and EQ. Settled on a random pair of wide bore foam tips with EQ from Amazon as the best compromise between sound quality and noise cancellation and comfort over long periods of time. 

This is by far the best review I found so far. They also have similar videos for other earbuds that are tested with similar methodology. I don't speak Korean but this one is English subbed and the older videos are still more or less understandable even without subs. I was not quite ready to commit to keeping these since the Beoplay EQ is supposed to come on in a few weeks and I liked some of their portable bluetooth speakers. But after hearing their review on those I'm pretty set on keeping these Sony's at this point.


----------



## jant71 (Aug 8, 2021)

Deal of the day?? Edifier X5 on Amazon US with 70% off so $9.80 with aptX. One day shipping as well if you have Prime.

https://www.amazon.com/Edifier-Blue...qid=1628451873&sourceid=Mozilla-search&sr=8-3
Thing is they don't look quite the same so what is with that?




vs.


----------



## 1mohmmad4

Hi last week i lost my status between pro and i want buy another earbuds but for now i hardly confused between these options (sound quality is the top of my interest no matter for other features) if could help me to decide please because i heat the sound on my airpods pro:
1- status between pro again.
2- nuarl n6 pro2.
3- devialet gemini.
4- nuratrue


----------



## jsmiller58

1mohmmad4 said:


> Hi last week i lost my status between pro and i want buy another earbuds but for now i hardly confused between these options (sound quality is the top of my interest no matter for other features) if could help me to decide please because i heat the sound on my airpods pro:
> 1- status between pro again.
> 2- nuarl n6 pro2.
> 3- devialet gemini.
> 4- nuratrue


Have you considered CA Melomania Touch?  Generally thought of very highly for sound quality and fit/comfort.  No ANC, but you did not indicate that as a must feature.


----------



## Juturna

I’ve always preferred having some sort of app with EQ for my earbuds but I’ve realized that maybe it’s for the best rather than spending half your listening time playing around in the app trying to get it just right and then second-guessing if you really prefer it to what you just EQ’d it from… lol.

Jokes aside, I’m glad to have it but yeah it can really detract from what’s important… the music, that is.


----------



## 1mohmmad4

jsmiller58 said:


> Have you considered CA Melomania Touch?  Generally thought of very highly for sound quality and fit/comfort.  No ANC, but you did not indicate that as a must feature.


For me i am really focusing on sound quality no matter other features in fact my status between pro i feel the needing for anc in the crowded place but no matter because most of my time i am setting in my office or my apartment


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

1mohmmad4 said:


> For me i am really focusing on sound quality no matter other features in fact my status between pro i feel the needing for anc in the crowded place but no matter because most of my time i am setting in my office or my apartment


The Melomania Touch would be a good option for you, then. I think they're a great value and have a really infectious tonality with technicalities to back it up.


----------



## samandhi

miserybeforethemusic said:


> The Melomania Touch would be a good option for you, then. I think they're a great value and have a really infectious tonality with technicalities to back it up.


+1

Or if you want more neutral you could get the Nuarl N6 Pro (1st gen) for a great deal at this point since the gen 2 has come. To put it into perspective (IMO); MT are more of a fun listen but with great technicalities, and the N6P are more analytical/linear (for a TWS) also with great technicalities.


----------



## CJYYZ

miserybeforethemusic said:


> It's almost all the way there for me in stock form, but either of my tip recommendations bring it the rest of the way. I do recommend the MT for you, but they seem to be fairly hard to get your hands on now.
> 
> Wonder why that would be...


Ugh. The MT sounds like they would be ideal...  I wish I had known about them before I bought the Lypertek Z7s. I LOVE the sound of the Z7s, but they just don't stay put for me and I'm worried I'm going to lose one down a sewer grate or something. Anyone wanna trade?


----------



## FYLegend

helmutcheese said:


> Two things since topic is codecs.
> 
> 1) aptX did not come with the Win 10 launch as someone here said, it was silently added in one of feature updates, before that the only way was using hacked Dell drivers on Intel Bluetooth chips only
> 
> ...


Thanks, I thought AptX came with Win10 as many users reported getting it (and encountering issues) when their devices received it. I guess my point was that when it became widely available, it also introduced AptX with it (I totally bailed on updates for my Win8.1 laptop, but I somehow "lost" Bluetooth drivers at one point, it was a mess)

It does seem like a 21H2 update might have rolled out for Win 10, but I never received it on the Beta Channel and went straight to Win 11 as my computer supports it. AAC is not listed in the changelog for 21H2 but if it was based on the dev build in April, it should have AAC.

 There were some reports of AAC being limited to 160K on certain Android devices, like OnePlus. Not sure if that still holds true now, or if the bitrate could also be throttled by the audio device manufacturer. The Galaxy Buds+ sounds much cleaner with AAC than SBC (which only has bitpool 37) but Samsung Scalable codec does seem slightly cleaner.

I have a headphone (Dyplay Urban Traveller 2) that used to distort/clip on certain tracks with AptX but not SBC or AAC. Right now the clipping seems to be gone, so I'm not sure if the codec was switched or not.


----------



## helmutcheese

https://www.bluetoothgoodies.com/

https://www.bluetoothgoodies.com/tweaker/


----------



## 1mohmmad4

miserybeforethemusic said:


> The Melomania Touch would be a good option for you, then. I think they're a great value and have a really infectious tonality with technicalities to back it up.


Thanks for your opinion I didn't imagine at all that's tws is better than my provided list in case of sound quality you really make me think about it


----------



## KopaneDePooj (Aug 9, 2021)

Jabra "showdown" 

I had the 65t, 75t and 85h for one day + my 85t.
Here's some quick, subjective impressions. Keep in mind that my preference is for warm sound with full-bodied vocals and silky/relaxed treble. And I have large ears.

*65t* >> good fit, better than my 85t, feels more secure. More neutral sound vs 85t, EQ: lowered the treble half way and bit of bump in the bass. More closed-in sound, ear-canal pressure due to no-vent design.
*75t* >> better fit than both 65t and 85t. Even though it seems smaller than 85t, the 75t has that "bulge" in the back that better fills the concha and sits more secure in my ear. The longer stems also help with this. Sound is extremely V-shaped vs. the 85t, I needed to lower the bass a bit and the highs by a very large amount + raise all three sliders for lower-mids / mids / upper-mids. Same closed-in sound and ear-canal pressure as the 65t.
*85h* (not to compare to the above, but threw it in just because I had them at hand) >> slightly heavier and imbalanced on head vs the WH-XM4, creaks when moving the ear-cups apart. Hard to press play/pause and volume control buttons, stupid ("convenient") way to on/off them by rotating the ear-cups and no other option (on/off button). Bright sound signature that I didn't like.

In conclusion, to me the sound of 85t is MUCH better than both 65t and 75t, more open-sounding, better sound stage, better tonality, details in the highs don't seem forced like the others, the 12mm drivers and semi-open design really shine here. BUT I wish the 85t had the exact 75t body... that would have been the perfect IEM for me in terms of fit and sound.

As a side-note, I'm really curious about the Melomania Touch that is getting so much praise here, but I bet it also creates that ear-canal pressure feeling that I cannot bear, that's why my main requirement when searching for a TWS was the vented design. I guess I'll keep the Jabra 85t and try to find some ear-wings for it to help with the fit.


----------



## 1mohmmad4

CJYYZ said:


> Ugh. The MT sounds like they would be ideal...  I wish I had known about them before I bought the Lypertek Z7s. I LOVE the sound of the Z7s, but they just don't stay put for me and I'm worried I'm going to lose one down a sewer grate or something. Anyone wanna trade?


All people say the Melomania Touch is the
best sound quality🤔 maybe i will move it to my top of my choices


----------



## clerkpalmer

1mohmmad4 said:


> All people say the Melomania Touch is the
> best sound quality🤔 maybe i will move it to my top of my choices


For the price and for many that cost 2x the price, I can’t imagine you’d be disappointed.


----------



## 1mohmmad4

clerkpalmer said:


> For the price and for many that cost 2x the price, I can’t imagine you’d be disappointed.


This is my list now.
I think is all in same price range except for devialet gemini but for Melomania Touch is best option in this list for sound quality it seem interesting thank you guys

1- status between pro.
2- nuarl n6 pro2.
3- devialet gemini.
4- nuratrue
5- Melomania Touch


----------



## tiagopinto

DUNU-Topsound said:


> It's not that we're *not* embracing true wireless. Wireless earphones are here and they are here to stay. We can only speak for ourselves (though the same limitations may apply to other earphone companies that specialize in the premium/high-end audio space), but the main limitation for us is that we don't have the personnel to optimize the coding side of things and give people the gadgety trappings they crave.
> 
> We're a small company, as are most of our counterparts. This means we're going to lag behind the software/firmware prowess of an Apple, Google, or Samsung. Companies like Qualcomm have made it easier to get things done, but at the end of the day, we have to be the ones doing the legwork, and we just don't have that many legs.
> 
> ...



For me, it’s actions like these, paying close attention to your business while caring about your customers, which score points. 

I’m very impressed with the time you took to address us all, and with the effort you’re putting in in order to fulfill your customers needs and wants.

In TWS, we all love “new” features, like good quality ANC, transparency/ambient modes, Qi charging, good battery life and others but I can risk in saying we’re all after that great implementation where better sound quality and a nice fit with quality tips marries perfectly with the other features, at sensible pricing if possible. Developing multi-driver TWS must not be easy with the current tech. With the coming advent of BTLEAudio/LC3 it will probably be easier to reach this. 

Hopefully you will have the chance, sooner than later, to convey your good experience with IEMs into a TWS you can widely manufacture and distribute. My kudos to the engineer who has the TWS project in hand and also to Andy for helping out when he could. It seems you have managed to develop something very promising with your short availability. I’m eager to get my ears on them and try them out.

Cheers!


----------



## tiagopinto

samandhi said:


> As for the newest FW update I noticed a few differences that hasn't been mentioned (that I know of), though some of this could have happened in the last FW update and I missed it.
> 
> Using volume on the player (DAP/phone) no longer changes the volume on the MT at all. Now I haven't tried switching "absolute volume" in options, but this never effected them before other than to separate the system volume from the onboard volume or to combine them. Never ONLY the MT volume.
> "hear-through" mode is now volume adjustable in the app. This could have happened in the last FW, because I noticed then that the volume was lower than previously. I just never thought to look in the app for it. I have always just used the triple tap to enable/disable it. So maybe it was indeed there, but not defaulted to 50% like it was after this update.
> For myself, I have not noticed any change in tuning, but it has been a while since I listened to them because I have been collecting new earbuds recently and trying to burn them in has taken most of my listening time.



- Concerning volume control, that may be an issue on android only, because on iOS I can (very much thankfully) keep changing the volume either on the earbuds or the phone. I’d be extremely worried if they cut this.

- Concerning transparency adjustability. This has always existed in the app as I often use it while riding my bike. A great feature I’ve always appreciated. Now more stable and improved as everything sounds less “metallic”, less or better processed. I haven’t tested it on the bike after the update but I hope wind noise has been improved as well.

- Concerning tuning, as I recall, we both noticed an improvement in the tuning in the previous update. In this latest one, I believe they touched it again in the bass and lower mids at least. I may be wrong or suggested but I would risk saying the bass reaches a tad lower, mid-bass has more volume and lower mids are punchier (maybe to avoid any perceivable mix between the two ranges). I personally wouldn’t have touched the tuning but I need more a/b testing to make sure of this. 



samandhi said:


> As usual for my set, I had no issues updating them at all. It always takes a while, but I simply get the process started and just "let er eat"..



I had no issues with my first set until the left bud suddenly perished. After a swift RMA, my second set has been flawless. An obvious yes to the “let er eat”



samandhi said:


> I think I would like to add those new DUNU TWS, but I suppose I can wait for a while (especially since I am broke in the hobby fund atm anyhow).



Oh, me too. I’d love to try a nice wireless hybrid. And Dunu is a great candidate.


----------



## tiagopinto

CJYYZ said:


> I'd really like to try the Melomania Touch. The form factor looks like it would be a secure fit.



I use the Large stock tips and fins. For me it’s a great fit. I ride trails on my bike with them and they don’t even budge.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

1mohmmad4 said:


> Thanks for your opinion I didn't imagine at all that's tws is better than my provided list in case of sound quality you really make me think about it


As it is with a lot of Head-Fi gear, price doesn't always relate to quality (especially sound quality). The Melomania Touch is a bit of an outlier in a really good way.


KopaneDePooj said:


> Jabra "showdown"
> 
> I had the 65t, 75t and 85h for one day + my 85t.
> Here's some quick, subjective impressions. Keep in mind that my preference is for warm sound with full-bodied vocals and silky/relaxed treble. And I have large ears.
> ...


Nice comparison and, though I haven't tried the over-ears or the 65t, works say my listening impressions agree with you. That 75t's V can be adjusted with tips, too. I really liked the Crystal for those.


1mohmmad4 said:


> This is my list now.
> I think is all in same price range except for devialet gemini but for Melomania Touch is best option in this list for sound quality it seem interesting thank you guys
> 
> 1- status between pro.
> ...


1. Status Between Pro - good tonality, ok timbre and technicalities. Worth it under 100 USD, but not at the currently-advertised $150. My son has these now.

2. Nuarl - missing the boat on these, but they sound like midrange kings.

3. Devialet - don't own, but they sound pretty darn special. Just have to decide if they're worth the cost to you

4. Nura - interesting concept, but no personal experience

5. MT - well, we know where I stand with these. Probably the value champs of everything on this list

Don't think you'll be upset regardless of which you pick.


----------



## jsmiller58

tiagopinto said:


> Developing multi-driver TWS must not be easy with the current tech. With the coming advent of BTLEAudio/LC3 it will probably be easier to reach this.


Why do you say that BTLE will make development easier?


----------



## Tenlow

I've just received the Master&Dynamic MW08 Sport (so the new edition with wireless charging, kevlar case and additional foam tips).

Any questions?


----------



## LordToneeus

Tenlow said:


> I've just received the Master&Dynamic MW08 Sport (so the new edition with wireless charging, kevlar case and additional foam tips).
> 
> Any questions?


I anxious to hear how you feel about the sound and the fit.


----------



## clerkpalmer

The new Noble are looking solid.  Here is what they had to say about them:

"We are hoping to have the full launch in September and we are currently gearing up for full production. The FoKus Pro has an 8mm dynamic driver and 2 Knowles BA drivers. The shells are 3d printed with designer faceplates. We have chosen to focus on the sound (thus the name) and have not included things like ANC or hear-thru as these techs tend to decrease sound quality. The fit of the FoKus is a significant improvement over the Falcon, and they do not stick out your ears nearly as much as the Falcons do. Probably one of the features that we are most excited about is the app that will go with the FoKus. While it has a fully adjustable equalizer, the app can also administer a hearing test and automatically adjust the equalizer for your hearing. Pretty cool stuff. The price will be $349."

They will not support LDAC but they seem to be upping the game on SQ overall.  And I'm excited about the new fit.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

clerkpalmer said:


> The new Noble are looking solid.  Here is what they had to say about them:
> 
> "We are hoping to have the full launch in September and we are currently gearing up for full production. The FoKus Pro has an 8mm dynamic driver and 2 Knowles BA drivers. The shells are 3d printed with designer faceplates. We have chosen to focus on the sound (thus the name) and have not included things like ANC or hear-thru as these techs tend to decrease sound quality. The fit of the FoKus is a significant improvement over the Falcon, and they do not stick out your ears nearly as much as the Falcons do. Probably one of the features that we are most excited about is the app that will go with the FoKus. While it has a fully adjustable equalizer, the app can also administer a hearing test and automatically adjust the equalizer for your hearing. Pretty cool stuff. The price will be $349."
> 
> They will not support LDAC but they seem to be upping the game on SQ overall.  And I'm excited about the new fit.


Interested, but don't know if I can swallow another $300+ set of TWS. Wonder what tuning changes they'll bring into the fold.


----------



## jant71

miserybeforethemusic said:


> As it is with a lot of Head-Fi gear, price doesn't always relate to quality (especially sound quality). The Melomania Touch is a bit of an outlier in a really good way.
> 
> Nice comparison and, though I haven't tried the over-ears or the 65t, works say my listening impressions agree with you. That 75t's V can be adjusted with tips, too. I really liked the Crystal for those.
> 
> ...


IME, Nuarl are most about sub bass and bass and then treble and then mids/vocals but all are excellent so it is a 1, 1A type of thing.



clerkpalmer said:


> The new Noble are looking solid.  Here is what they had to say about them:
> 
> "We are hoping to have the full launch in September and we are currently gearing up for full production. The FoKus Pro has an 8mm dynamic driver and 2 Knowles BA drivers. The shells are 3d printed with designer faceplates. We have chosen to focus on the sound (thus the name) and have not included things like ANC or hear-thru as these techs tend to decrease sound quality. The fit of the FoKus is a significant improvement over the Falcon, and they do not stick out your ears nearly as much as the Falcons do. Probably one of the features that we are most excited about is the app that will go with the FoKus. While it has a fully adjustable equalizer, the app can also administer a hearing test and automatically adjust the equalizer for your hearing. Pretty cool stuff. The price will be $349."
> 
> They will not support LDAC but they seem to be upping the game on SQ overall.  And I'm excited about the new fit.


I call BS. $349 needs to have excellent mic and good ambient. BS that "tends to decrease SQ thing". Maybe hurts profit if we spend to implement correctly but need not hurt SQ esp. hear through.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

jant71 said:


> IME, Nuarl are most about sub bass and bass and then treble and then mids/vocals but all are excellent so it is a 1, 1A type of thing.


I didn't mean for them to be weighted rankings; just wanted to provide the same order they did. You've got more experience with the Nuarl than I do, so thanks for the elaboration.


----------



## clerkpalmer

jant71 said:


> IME, Nuarl are most about sub bass and bass and then treble and then mids/vocals but all are excellent so it is a 1, 1A type of thing.
> 
> 
> I call BS. $349 needs to have excellent mic and good ambient. BS that "tends to decrease SQ thing". Maybe hurts profit if we spend to implement correctly but need not hurt SQ esp. hear through.


I’m not sure I’m ready to call BS. They are a high end IEM manufacturer focused on SQ. Kinda of like Dunu it doesn’t surprise me that this is the approach they are taking. I agree 349 is a bit rich and 299 would be more reasonable given the lack of technology. But I think there is a market for a tws designed solely for sound. Let’s give them a chance. The falcon 2 are well regarded around here.


----------



## jant71

miserybeforethemusic said:


> I didn't mean for them to be weighted rankings; just wanted to provide the same order they did. You've got more experience with the Nuarl than I do, so thanks for the elaboration.


Yep, just as far as the best descriptor, unless I am hearing them wrong , the mids are sweet indeed but third as far as focus or what hits you. Though the balance and quality level persist through the range so it is more what they highlight than the FR being either more mid or U.


----------



## Tenlow

LordToneeus said:


> I anxious to hear how you feel about the sound and the fit.


Fit is incredibly comfortable (for me). Sound is exactly like the normal MW08, if you've heard them by chance, otherwise very engaging, "fun", exciting and V shaped but with very clear highs and a good bass, not a muddy or bloated one.


----------



## regancipher

Few new reviews from me:

Edifier NeoBuds Pro
FIIL CC Pro
SoundPEATS TrueAir2+


----------



## jant71 (Aug 9, 2021)

clerkpalmer said:


> I’m not sure I’m ready to call BS. They are a high end IEM manufacturer focused on SQ. Kinda of like Dunu it doesn’t surprise me that this is the approach they are taking. I agree 349 is a bit rich and 299 would be more reasonable given the lack of technology. But I think there is a market for a tws designed solely for sound. Let’s give them a chance. The falcon 2 are well regarded around here.


Nuarl did a great job for $150. Can't tell the ambient is on as far as SQ. It does not have to degrade. Then on the other side ANC is designed to counter the loss of SQ from noise. Yes, a lot of lower quality ANC but it is not snake oil that the end result will be SQ degradation esp. in the intended situations. So still don't buy the we don't do those cause it hurts SQ.  They sound like Ety with the one armature is all that is needed philosophy they held for ages. Now they have a triple driver.

Of course that is just me saying that I won't buy it if it doesn't have ambient at that price and that it can be implemented w/o issue. Nothing negative to say about the SQ which should no doubt be good.


----------



## clerkpalmer

jant71 said:


> Nuarl did a great job for $150. Can't tell the ambient is on as far as SQ. It does not have to degrade. Then on the other side ANC is designed to counter the loss of SQ from noise. Yes, a lot of lower quality ANC but it is not snake oil that the end result will be SQ degradation esp. in the intended situations. So still don't buy the we don't do those cause it hurts SQ.  They sound like Ety with the one armature is all that is needed philosophy they held for ages. Now they have a triple driver.
> 
> Of course that is just me saying that I won't buy it if it doesn't have ambient at that price and that it can be implemented w/o issue. Nothing negative to say about the SQ which should no doubt be good.


I suspect that adding those technologies do interfere with sq to some degree. They probably add distortion and cause addition stress on batteries and amplification which contributes to less clean power being available. I believe Dunu was referring to this as well. As for the price, I think we’re going to pay a premium for anything Noble makes just like Apple or any other premium manufacturer.


----------



## jsmiller58

clerkpalmer said:


> I suspect that adding those technologies do interfere with sq to some degree. They probably add distortion and cause addition stress on batteries and amplification which contributes to less clean power being available. I believe Dunu was referring to this as well. As for the price, I think we’re going to pay a premium for anything Noble makes just like Apple or any other premium manufacturer.


Maybe we are taking the comment too literally...  The inclusion of ANC and transparency mode probably take resources from whatever they have budgeted - developers and component/manufacturing budget - so adding those features subtracts from available investment that would otherwise go towards sound quality.


----------



## erockg

LordToneeus said:


> I anxious to hear how you feel about the sound and the fit.


Sound is the same.  I think I posted info a week or so ago.  I LOVE them.  I very much prefer the Kevlar case and the wireless charging is a great addition.  Foam tips secure and isolate the buds better for me.  I highly recommend if money is no object.  If you don't care about the new features, you can't go wrong with the standard version.


----------



## clerkpalmer

erockg said:


> Sound is the same.  I think I posted info a week or so ago.  I LOVE them.  I very much prefer the Kevlar case and the wireless charging is a great addition.  Foam tips secure and isolate the buds better for me.  I highly recommend if money is no object.  If you don't care about the new features, you can't go wrong with the standard version.


What are your thoughts on sq v the Klipsch?


----------



## erockg

clerkpalmer said:


> I’m not sure I’m ready to call BS. They are a high end IEM manufacturer focused on SQ. Kinda of like Dunu it doesn’t surprise me that this is the approach they are taking. I agree 349 is a bit rich and 299 would be more reasonable given the lack of technology. But I think there is a market for a tws designed solely for sound. Let’s give them a chance. The falcon 2 are well regarded around here.


Same.  Noble Audio doesn't make bs.  They make incredibly solid buds.  NFPs are just awesome.  I'm a transparency/passthrough mode guy, so I'll prob pass on the new ones... until I get a wild hair.  Again.  And again.


----------



## clerkpalmer

erockg said:


> Same.  Noble Audio doesn't make bs.  They make incredibly solid buds.  NFPs are just awesome.  I'm a transparency/passthrough mode guy, so I'll prob pass on the new ones... until I get a wild hair.  Again.  And again.


You’ll break down when you see those custom face plates ….


----------



## Tenlow (Aug 9, 2021)

erockg said:


> Sound is the same.  I think I posted info a week or so ago.  I LOVE them.  I very much prefer the Kevlar case and the wireless charging is a great addition.  Foam tips secure and isolate the buds better for me.  I highly recommend if money is no object.  If you don't care about the new features, you can't go wrong with the standard version.


Would agree with everything here. Great buds. Superb battery life as well. Good ANC (not Sony/Bose good but good), call quality also good, as is the transparency mode. There is not a lot I would change (besides still having an EQ in the app maybe).


----------



## erockg (Aug 9, 2021)

clerkpalmer said:


> What are your thoughts on sq v the Klipsch?


Ha ha! Using the Klipsch right now and plan on testing them on my first work zoom call.  I truly love them.  One stupid feature, although simple, it's awesome - when you're listening to music and you pause, transparency automatically turns on. Just an option that's rare on tws these days.  I think I prefer the K vs the M&W.  Primarily because I can EQ the K.  But both are staying in my collection for now.  They knocked my Sony XM4's out and I've sold them.  I was comparing and contrasting the K's vs the Sony last night and the bass is just much more punchy on the Klipsch.  Love my punchy, not muddy bass.


----------



## erockg

clerkpalmer said:


> You’ll break down when you see those custom face plates ….


Sigh...


----------



## clerkpalmer

erockg said:


> Ha ha! Using the Klipsch right now and plan on testing them on my first work zoom call.  I truly love them.  One stupid feature, although simple, it's awesome - when you're listening to music and you pause, transparency automatically turns on. Just an option that's rare on two these days.  I think I prefer the K vs the M&W.  Primarily because I can EQ the K.  But both are staying in my collection for now.  They knocked my Sony XM4's out and I've sold them.  I was comparing and contrasting the K's vs the Sony last night and the bass is just much more punchy on the Klipsch.  Love my punchy, not muddy bass.


Agree that’s a cool feature and more usable than the Sony version when you speak. I gave the Klipsch a good run last night. Fit really well with the XL. I keep staring at those shiny MW08s but I should pass.


----------



## erockg

clerkpalmer said:


> Agree that’s a cool feature and more usable than the Sony version when you speak. I gave the Klipsch a good run last night. Fit really well with the XL. I keep staring at those shiny MW08s but I should pass.


Master & Dynamic's build quality is just superb.  I can't think of another set of TWS that makes something so gorgeous.  In the immortal words of the Evil Dead, "Join us..."


----------



## clerkpalmer

erockg said:


> Master & Dynamic's build quality is just superb.  I can't think of another set of TWS that makes something so gorgeous.  In the immortal words of the Evil Dead, "Join us..."


Just wish i could get tone down some of the bass. Maybe wavelet or something?


----------



## erockg

clerkpalmer said:


> Just wish i could get tone down some of the bass. Maybe wavelet or something?


Sadly, I use an iPhone most days for all my music.  I'm much more forgiving than most.  But yes, you could do that for sure.  If you're on the fence though because of the bass, I'd say pass.


----------



## BooleanBones

erockg said:


> Ha ha! Using the Klipsch right now and plan on testing them on my first work zoom call.  I truly love them.  One stupid feature, although simple, it's awesome - when you're listening to music and you pause, transparency automatically turns on. Just an option that's rare on tws these days.  I think I prefer the K vs the M&W.  Primarily because I can EQ the K.  But both are staying in my collection for now.  They knocked my Sony XM4's out and I've sold them.  I was comparing and contrasting the K's vs the Sony last night and the bass is just much more punchy on the Klipsch.  Love my punchy, not muddy bass.


Oh no. I must hide my wallet now. Hopefully, I talk myself out of buying another set of TWS by the end of the day.


----------



## clerkpalmer

BooleanBones said:


> Oh no. I must hide my wallet now. Hopefully, I talk myself out of buying another set of TWS by the end of the day.


Nothing but enablers on here bro.


----------



## assassin10000

erockg said:


> Sound is the same.  I think I posted info a week or so ago.  I LOVE them.  I very much prefer the Kevlar case and the wireless charging is a great addition.  Foam tips secure and isolate the buds better for me.  I highly recommend if money is no object.  If you don't care about the new features, you can't go wrong with the standard version.


Wish they were more DF than the huge v-shaped sound signature. Cause they look fantastic.


----------



## clerkpalmer

erockg said:


> Sadly, I use an iPhone most days for all my music.  I'm much more forgiving than most.  But yes, you could do that for sure.  If you're on the fence though because of the bass, I'd say pass.


me too. But the fold 3 may have be jumping ship.


----------



## LordToneeus

erockg said:


> Sound is the same.  I think I posted info a week or so ago.  I LOVE them.  I very much prefer the Kevlar case and the wireless charging is a great addition.  Foam tips secure and isolate the buds better for me.  I highly recommend if money is no object.  If you don't care about the new features, you can't go wrong with the standard version.


Thanks,  I am very much in love with that green.


----------



## erockg

clerkpalmer said:


> me too. But the fold 3 may have be jumping ship.


I tried Android.  Just can't.  Drank that Apple Koolaid so long ago.  I love iOS and having M1 devices that let me use apps now.  Looking forward to the day Apple releases a foldable phone.  They're always late to the party!


----------



## clerkpalmer

erockg said:


> I tried Android.  Just can't.  Drank that Apple Koolaid so long ago.  I love iOS and having M1 devices that let me use apps now.  Looking forward to the day Apple releases a foldable phone.  They're always late to the party!


I switch back and forth but there is no doubt iOS is the more polished operating system. Like an old friend that’s always there for you just like you remembered. For audio iOS could use some improvement. Clearly not a priority.


----------



## erockg

clerkpalmer said:


> I switch back and forth but there is no doubt iOS is the more polished operating system. Like an old friend that’s always there for you just like you remembered. For audio iOS could use some improvement. Clearly not a priority.


I'm having good luck with Lossless and Dolby Atmos in Apple Music.  I guess it's a start.  But you're right.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

BooleanBones said:


> Oh no. I must hide my wallet now. Hopefully, I talk myself out of buying another set of TWS by the end of the day.


I keep reminding myself that CanJam is at the end of next month. That's doing a pretty good job of keeping me from buying all these new announcements as well


----------



## SemiAudiophile

jant71 said:


> I call BS. $349 needs to have excellent mic and good ambient. BS that "tends to decrease SQ thing". Maybe hurts profit if we spend to implement correctly but need not hurt SQ esp. hear through.


Yeah, sounds a bit like an excuse. You can get some really nice reference grade IEMs or headphones at that price. Seems like everyone is hopping on the hybrid TWS bandwagon now. 

I don't think I'd buy a TWS over $300 unless it had at least excellent ANC and features other than great sound quality. It'd have to be a company that I really trust or good reputation to spend that kind of dough.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

SemiAudiophile said:


> Yeah, sounds a bit like an excuse. You can get some really nice reference grade IEMs or headphones at that price. Seems like everyone is hopping on the hybrid TWS bandwagon now.
> 
> I don't think I'd buy a TWS over $300 unless it had at least excellent ANC and features other than great sound quality. It'd have to be a company that I really trust or good reputation to spend that kind of dough.


I think there's still enough of a crowd out there that just wants a seamless connection to their phone without the wires and couldn't be bothered with the other features. Some days, I'm certainly like that. If that's the sort of market share Noble wants to go after, I say more power to them, especially if it means they can start using more of their own parts in the process.

The problem I foresee is that the much louder majority of customers out there are going to want all the stuff added on that requires a _ton _of licensure fees (LDAC included) and those tend to drown out your profit margin in a hurry.


----------



## Sandbox2

Anyone remember the nicehck dz8/dz9s?  How would they compare to the moondrop blessing 2's? I remember the nicehck's being much more expensive.


----------



## Tommy C

miserybeforethemusic said:


> I think there's still enough of a crowd out there that just wants a seamless connection to their phone without the wires and couldn't be bothered with the other features. Some days, I'm certainly like that. If that's the sort of market share Noble wants to go after, I say more power to them, especially if it means they can start using more of their own parts in the process.
> 
> The problem I foresee is that the much louder majority of customers out there are going to want all the stuff added on that requires a _ton _of licensure fees (LDAC included) and those tend to drown out your profit margin in a hurry.


Agreed. Personally I could live without ANC but hear-through, when implemented right is a super convenient. 
Personally, I’ll have to think about it a lot before spending $350 on a set of TWS knowing its lifespan might be somewhat limited. 
I would like to see some reviews before passing judgment as Noble makes excellent stuff.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

Tommy C said:


> Agreed. Personally I could live without ANC but hear-through, when implemented right is a super convenient.
> Personally, I’ll have to think about it a lot before spending $350 on a set of TWS knowing its lifespan might be somewhat limited.
> I would like to see some reviews before passing judgment as Noble makes excellent stuff.


Wholeheartedly agree. Took me a very long time to appreciate the value in what I had with the Noble X; that's led me to never just writing Noble off with anything. I'm sure they'll sound fantastic and would love the opportunity to give them a demo. Hope to see these at CanJam


----------



## clerkpalmer

Tommy C said:


> Agreed. Personally I could live without ANC but hear-through, when implemented right is a super convenient.
> Personally, I’ll have to think about it a lot before spending $350 on a set of TWS knowing its lifespan might be somewhat limited.
> I would like to see some reviews before passing judgment as Noble makes excellent stuff.


It’s clearly working for them. They are on their third set and they told me that they have additional tws in development (LDAC specifically). They must be making money. Good for them. They may not be for everyone but the closer we can get tws to wired iem sound the better.


----------



## Tommy C (Aug 9, 2021)

clerkpalmer said:


> It’s clearly working for them. They are on their third set and they told me that they have additional tws in development (LDAC specifically). They must be making money. Good for them. They may not be for everyone but the closer we can get tws to wired iem sound the better.


Yeah, good for them. I always appreciated their products and it’s nice to see they are embracing TWS. I just wish to see a similar setup down the line with the added features. Personally, I’ll be all over that.


----------



## CJYYZ

What does everyone think of the Sennheiser Momentum True Wireless 2 earbuds from a sound quality/stability perspective? I've read they've fixed the battery drain issue from the original model, but are they good enough to be in your top 5 list?


----------



## jasonb

CJYYZ said:


> What does everyone think of the Sennheiser Momentum True Wireless 2 earbuds from a sound quality/stability perspective? I've read they've fixed the battery drain issue from the original model, but are they good enough to be in your top 5 list?



At this price point I'd say if you have a new(ish) Android phone, one that supports LDAC, then you should try the WF1000XM4.


----------



## clerkpalmer

Tommy C said:


> Yeah, good for them. I always appreciated their products and it’s nice to see they are embracing TWS. I just wish to see a similar setup down the line with the added features. Personally, I’ll be all over that.


I don’t think it’s realistic to assume a smallish iem company is going to compete with the big boys on the tech side. So at least Noble knows their audience and is making a product that will probably sell well to their fan base. Dunu mentioned that even though Qualcomm makes the chipset they had to do all the engineering themselves. I do think a bigger company like Audeze or Hifiman could probably offer the best of the best if they wanted to.


----------



## CocaCola15

Just got another FW update for the Melomania Touch. Second in about  a week. Forgot to read the update notes. That was very quick. Not sure if it’s related but I notice an annoying sibilance edge up top. Fixable with the CA app EQ. Using the large OEM silicone tips.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic (Aug 9, 2021)

CocaCola15 said:


> Just got another FW update for the Melomania Touch. Second in about  a week. Forgot to read the update notes. That was very quick. Not sure if it’s related but I notice an annoying sibilance edge up top. Fixable with the CA app EQ. Using the large OEM silicone tips.


Good call and this one sneaked up on me. Going to install it with the Pixel 3a instead of the 8T in hopes of a smoother experience. I did notice Melomania app updates on both phones.

Oh! If this is the app update I'm thinking of, it was just to fix Google log-in on the app. Not sure what the firmware update is for, to be honest.


----------



## BooleanBones

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Good call and this one sneaked up on me. Going to install it with the Pixel 3a instead of the 8T in hopes of a smoother experience. I did notice Melomania app updates on both phones.
> 
> Oh! If this is the app update I'm thinking of, it was just to fix Google log-in on the app. Not sure what the firmware update is for, to be honest.


The firmware notes actually have some of the same notes for 2.1.8 as were in 2.1.7 (earlier this week). Mentions some transparency mode enhancements that I don't recall in 2.1.7, but not sure I read those completely at the time. i.e. minimized background noise when in transparency mode. Transparency disabled when placed in the case. Improving volume control on TWS+ phones.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

BooleanBones said:


> The firmware notes actually have some of the same notes for 2.1.8 as were in 2.1.7 (earlier this week). Mentions some transparency mode enhancements that I don't recall in 2.1.7, but not sure I read those completely at the time. i.e. minimized background noise when in transparency mode. Transparency disabled when placed in the case. Improving volume control on TWS+ phones.


Yep. Was going to screengrab the release notes as well, but realized they were the same. Guess we'll see if there's a positive benefit on the TWS end when using these on the 8T.

Oh and mission accomplished on using the 3a to run the update instead. Went through flawlessly from beginning to end. Running 'em with some random Comply tips for the evening in celebration


----------



## BooleanBones

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Yep. Was going to screengrab the release notes as well, but realized they were the same. Guess we'll see if there's a positive benefit on the TWS end when using these on the 8T.
> 
> Oh and mission accomplished on using the 3a to run the update instead. Went through flawlessly from beginning to end. Running 'em with some random Comply tips for the evening in celebration


The update(s) have been flaky for sure on my iphone 12 pro. Have not tried using the walkman yet. Maybe on the next round I'll give that a whirl.


----------



## Tommy C

Something is brewing. Just saw these on their FB page.


----------



## Tenlow (Aug 10, 2021)

Quick info for potential MW08 Sport owners (not sure if it also applies to the normal MW08 version):

There's a new firmware update in the M&D app today. It's firmware version 4.4.4. - haven't seen any change notes so far and don't know if Master&Dynamic provide any for their updates as this was my first update with one of their products.


----------



## senorbroom

Tommy C said:


> Something is brewing. Just saw these on their FB page.


Are astrotec IEMs any good?


----------



## Tommy C

senorbroom said:


> Are astrotec IEMs any good?


They have been around for quite some time. They are Chinese but not to be confused with the ChiFi that we see nowadays. They have some expensive IEMs and earbuds that are considered very good and some current TWS that I have never seen before and aren’t very popular I would assume. With all that being said, I’m just curious to see what’s their new TWS and if the price is right I’ll be willing to give it a go.


----------



## tiagopinto (Aug 10, 2021)

jsmiller58 said:


> Why do you say that BTLE will make development easier?



Because if you have a communications protocol which is less power hungry (BTLowEnergyAudio vs current BT), paired with the new LC3 codec, you may be able to implement more features like a better crossover and amp which will use that (now)surplus energy (at the same time giving you more resolution). Or keep the same cross/amp and give you ANC working with 4 or 6 mics while still giving you 6/8 hours on a single charge in a pair of buds. It’s a balance of sound/features/battery, I guess.
I don’t know many details on their implementation but, for example, the Pi7 can only reach around a four hour battery probably because the crossover/amp is munching on that battery to give you that type of better amplification and resolution in the sound. And while they still give you all the other features, if you want their SQ you have to live with a 3 hour battery.

We all want 10 hours on the buds + 40 hours in the case, or better. But then we also want good ANC (which has at least two mics), Ambient (more or the same mics), some people want play/pause sensors, complicated DSPs like the WH/WF which correlate ANC profile frequencies to your outside environment noises (gimmicky, but ok). But besides a good fit, we all want the best sound, regardless of taste and tuning, which will give you more headroom, less noise floor, more spatiality, more separation, larger frequency range (more deep bass, less treble roll off). And this is mainly obtained with a more power hungry crossover/amp. And of higher quality too. This is where (besides paying for the brand name) you get your higher price.

I rave about the Melomania Touch not because they are perfect (no ANC (want), no Qi (want), no sensors (I wouldn’t want these)) but because for 130€ you get, besides a very decent battery life, a very enjoyable sound quality, complete with width/depth/separation/accurate timbre/good timing and dynamics, all in a single DD. And a good app. Comparable to others only at twice the price.

So, with BTLEAudio/LC3 you’ll be able to retain/implement higher quality resolution and gain AND still being able to give you other features WHILE being able to cater for a decent battery life. (Oh, and while not jacking up the price too).

Edit: I almost forgot about hybrids, more drivers, DD+BA, more power needed. You probably can’t do this at 130€, but you can do it at 260€ (or less) and still give you decent battery, and more lower bass/less treble roll off, more resolution. More of all which we want. Tuning is taste or brand signature.


----------



## LordToneeus

Tommy C said:


> Something is brewing. Just saw these on their FB page.


Noooo! Not stems! I sure did like my S80’s.


----------



## jsmiller58

tiagopinto said:


> Because if you have a communications protocol which is less power hungry (BTLowEnergyAudio vs current BT), paired with the new LC3 codec, you may be able to implement more features like a better crossover and amp which will use that (now)surplus energy (at the same time giving you more resolution). Or keep the same cross/amp and give you ANC working with 4 or 6 mics while still giving you 6/8 hours on a single charge in a pair of buds. It’s a balance of sound/features/battery, I guess.
> I don’t know many details on their implementation but, for example, the Pi7 can only reach around a four hour battery probably because the crossover/amp is munching on that battery to give you that type of better amplification and resolution in the sound. And while they still give you all the other features, if you want their SQ you have to live with a 3 hour battery.
> 
> We all want 10 hours on the buds + 40 hours in the case, or better. But then we also want good ANC (which has at least two mics), Ambient (more or the same mics), some people want play/pause sensors, complicated DSPs like the WH/WF which correlate ANC profile frequencies to your outside environment noises (gimmicky, but ok). But besides a good fit, we all want the best sound, regardless of taste and tuning, which will give you more headroom, less noise floor, more spatiality, more separation, larger frequency range (more deep bass, less treble roll off). And this is mainly obtained with a more power hungry crossover/amp. And of higher quality too. This is where (besides paying for the brand name) you get your higher price.
> ...


I hope that you are right!  What worries me, though, is that what you listed is really more about how we as consumers will get better products from the technology.  However, the statements from Dunu and Noble were not so much that the technology limits the features and quality, but that developing products took resources and was expensive.  

But, like I said, I hope that you are right!


----------



## jant71

jsmiller58 said:


> I hope that you are right!  What worries me, though, is that what you listed is really more about how we as consumers will get better products from the technology.  However, the statements from Dunu and Noble were not so much that the technology limits the features and quality, but that developing products took resources and was expensive.
> 
> But, like I said, I hope that you are right!


Hard to buy that with plenty of cheaper stuff with the features. How can Nuarl and CA give good sound and ambient for under $150? Edifier just did dual hybrid with amplifier chip, six mics, ANC, and programmed in a Hi-Res codec for $100.


----------



## jsmiller58

jant71 said:


> Hard to buy that with plenty of cheaper stuff with the features. How can Nuarl and CA give good sound and ambient for under $150? Edifier just did dual hybrid with amplifier chip, six mics, ANC, and programmed in a Hi-Res codec for $100.


I don’t disagree, I simply pointed out that it did not address what Dunu and Noble said.  And I also said I hoped the advent of BTLE would bring us the great features @tiagopinto mentioned!  I for one am expecting to benefit from the technology, and will spend my money on the best quality and features I can afford.


----------



## Luchyres (Aug 10, 2021)

miserybeforethemusic said:


> The Melomania Touch would be a good option for you, then. I think they're a great value and have a really infectious tonality with technicalities to back it up.


@miserybeforethemusic I can't help but still be curious about the MT - I do like me some bass and fun tuning as as long as it's not at too much of a cost.

I bought the JBL Tour Pro+ and, with a lot of EQing, got them somewhere I'm ok with, but thinking I'll sell.

Now, I just got the Nuarl N6 Pro 2 and out of the box I really wanted to EQ them but between the HDSS (I think) and the driver, they have a tremendous clarity (imho). I did adjust the EQ in Spotify to up the bass (for my taste) and they deliver with 0 issues - I just want an EQ in the N6 app itself (which is barebones).

I don't know if you have plans to try them, but I would be very curious to hear your thoughts on the N6 Pro 2 vs Melomania Touch! (Anyone else who may have both please also comment!) I'm also very interested in the MT mic quality for calls.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

Luchyres said:


> @miserybeforethemusic I can't help but still be curious about the MT - I do like me some bass and fun tuning as as long as it's not at too much of a cost.
> 
> I bought the JBL Tour Pro+ and, with a lot of EQing, got them somewhere I'm ok with, but thinking I'll sell.
> 
> ...


I'll keep an eye on the wallet to see if there isn't room for a N6Pro2 in the future, but sounds like you're enjoying them and that's great!


----------



## tiagopinto

jant71 said:


> I call BS. $349 needs to have excellent mic and good ambient. BS that "tends to decrease SQ thing". Maybe hurts profit if we spend to implement correctly but need not hurt SQ esp. hear through.



I’m with you on this. Straight bs. Hearthrough does not degrade SQ. The mics are only feeding in outside noise. No ANC I understand it may influence the tuning (most times). But these are user choices if we really want to hear or block outside noise. And not “ah, we just don’t put it there for your sake”. I understand and welcome the 1DD + 2BA. If they do it right, the sound tends to be very good.
They’re excited for an app (with EQ or not)? I tend to rely on that nowadays.

I too prefer SQ over all else. But at 349$... no way.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

tiagopinto said:


> I’m with you on this. Straight bs. Hearthrough does not degrade SQ. The mics are only feeding in outside noise. No ANC I understand it may influence the tuning (most times). But these are user choices if we really want to hear or block outside noise. And not “ah, we just don’t put it there for your sake”. I understand and welcome the 1DD + 2BA. If they do it right, the sound tends to be very good.
> They’re excited for an app (with EQ or not)? I tend to rely on that nowadays.
> 
> I too prefer SQ over all else. But at 349$... no way.


Speaking candidly, HearThrough on the Falcon Pro needs some work. So far, only Cambridge and Jabra seem to have serviceable HearThrough implementation for my ears. Everything else is just too robotic or it filters out too much ambient noise.


----------



## tiagopinto

clerkpalmer said:


> I suspect that adding those technologies do interfere with sq to some degree. They probably add distortion and cause addition stress on batteries and amplification which contributes to less clean power being available. I believe Dunu was referring to this as well. As for the price, I think we’re going to pay a premium for anything Noble makes just like Apple or any other premium manufacturer.



Now this is more to the point. “Additional stress on batteries and amplification”. Exactly my point on my post about BTLEAudio/LC3. Price would be affected also. Sorry but I do not concur with Noble. 

But again, to each his own. I’m surely not ready to spend 350 of anything in TWS.


----------



## tiagopinto

Tommy C said:


> Agreed. Personally I could live without ANC but hear-through, when implemented right is a super convenient.
> Personally, I’ll have to think about it a lot before spending $350 on a set of TWS knowing its lifespan might be somewhat limited.
> I would like to see some reviews before passing judgment as Noble makes excellent stuff.



Please don’t get me wrong. Not having tried anything Noble, I’ve heard none other than good things about them, NFP and all.

But I believe it’s still early to cater for the straight audiophile in TWS with current BT compression. So, if they want to implement hybrids, for me, they have to have more features. More so at 350.


----------



## tiagopinto

CocaCola15 said:


> Just got another FW update for the Melomania Touch. Second in about  a week. Forgot to read the update notes. That was very quick. Not sure if it’s related but I notice an annoying sibilance edge up top. Fixable with the CA app EQ. Using the large OEM silicone tips.



Yup, surprisingly me too. Will post on that so @miserybeforethemusic can share with CA dev team.


----------



## BooleanBones

Luchyres said:


> @miserybeforethemusic I can't help but still be curious about the MT - I do like me some bass and fun tuning as as long as it's not at too much of a cost.
> 
> I'm also very interested in the MT mic quality for calls.


You can't use transparency mode while on calls, which bothers me. My co-worker says they sound real good on calls when I tested, but I really don't like taking calls without transparency.


----------



## 1mohmmad4

Luchyres said:


> @miserybeforethemusic I can't help but still be curious about the MT - I do like me some bass and fun tuning as as long as it's not at too much of a cost.
> 
> I bought the JBL Tour Pro+ and, with a lot of EQing, got them somewhere I'm ok with, but thinking I'll sell.
> 
> ...


+1 for waiting comparation between mt and n6 pro2


----------



## Tommy C

clerkpalmer said:


> I don’t think it’s realistic to assume a smallish iem company is going to compete with the big boys on the tech side. So at least Noble knows their audience and is making a product that will probably sell well to their fan base. Dunu mentioned that even though Qualcomm makes the chipset they had to do all the engineering themselves. I do think a bigger company like Audeze or Hifiman could probably offer the best of the best if they wanted to.


It won’t be realistic to compare them to the big boys but as far as I know, if they use certain chipsets they can fairly easily achieve hearthriugh/ ambient and ANC if they choose to. Qualcomm high end chipsets offer than and they put them in mid-range TWS. Heck, if they use them in the Monolith, Cleer Audio, Monster and a few more TWS and they sound excellent and Ambient doesn’t impact the SQ I’m certain Noble can get it done. I’m just assuming here of course and they know their stuff but I think the following are very important when you offer such high end product: app with equalizer and ambient noise. ANC I could live without.


----------



## Tommy C

tiagopinto said:


> Please don’t get me wrong. Not having tried anything Noble, I’ve heard none other than good things about them, NFP and all.
> 
> But I believe it’s still early to cater for the straight audiophile in TWS with current BT compression. So, if they want to implement hybrids, for me, they have to have more features. More so at 350.


I certainly don’t disagree with you. I’m certainly not expecting a Sony, Sennheiser level of customization but at the very least the basic features and I highly doubt it impacts the SQ _that_ much if any.


----------



## erockg

BooleanBones said:


> You can't use transparency mode while on calls, which bothers me. My co-worker says they sound real good on calls when I tested, but I really don't like taking calls without transparency.


The new Klipsch T5 II ANC lets you use transparency mode while on calls.


----------



## Luchyres

miserybeforethemusic said:


> I'll keep an eye on the wallet to see if there isn't room for a N6Pro2 in the future, but sounds like you're enjoying them and that's great!


I am.... but I am starting to notice that they do 'reveal' some poor mastering/leveling on poorly produced tracks. I noticed this on some spotify recs, but have not on Tidal - which may indicate that these are a little more demanding to perform well. I do also really, really hope Nuarl introduces a full EQ. 


BooleanBones said:


> You can't use transparency mode while on calls, which bothers me. My co-worker says they sound real good on calls when I tested, but I really don't like taking calls without transparency.


I hear you - one of the best things about the Jabras imo, thanks for sharing!


1mohmmad4 said:


> +1 for waiting comparation between mt and n6 pro2


I may order the CA MT if the N6 Pro 2 is too fussy - I do love me some poorly produced tracks every so often.


My suspicion is that the N6 Pro 2 is very very resolute and capable, but that my day to day enjoyment may be higher with the CA MT - is the case nice and pocketable?


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

tiagopinto said:


> Yup, surprisingly me too. Will post on that so @miserybeforethemusic can share with CA dev team.


Can you elaborate on this? I'll put something together and send it off later today if this is the case. I've been battling congestion, so any notes on FR over the past couple days would be skewed, especially with upper midrange/treble response.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

Luchyres said:


> I am.... but I am starting to notice that they do 'reveal' some poor mastering/leveling on poorly produced tracks. I noticed this on some spotify recs, but have not on Tidal - which may indicate that these are a little more demanding to perform well. I do also really, really hope Nuarl introduces a full EQ.


Think Wavelet would work out for you? Might work as a good stand-in for not having a TWS EQ.


----------



## scubaphish

erockg said:


> Experiment with the tips.  For me, I had to use the larger tips for the T5 and T5 IIs.  Definitely made a difference with the stock sound.  Also, the McLaren T5 II non-ANC version came with foam tips.  Maybe you are, but if you aren't getting a good seal, email or call Klipsch and see if you get get the foam tips.


Great idea, called today and they’re sending me a set of foam tips to try out. Thank you


----------



## BooleanBones (Aug 10, 2021)

erockg said:


> The new Klipsch T5 II ANC lets you use transparency mode while on calls.


I know, I saw that. I was watching the features online after your posts and low and behold I ordered a pair  They have some really cool features in them now that got me a bit excited. How were your zoom calls yesterday?


----------



## erockg

BooleanBones said:


> I know. I was watching the features online after your posts and low and behold I ordered a pair  They have some really cool features in them now that got me a bit excited. How were your zoom calls yesterday?


Perfect.  Nobody had any complaints.  That said, my battery ran out halfway in!  Had to switch to another pair of TWS mid-call.  Ugh.


----------



## erockg

Using my Nuratrue buds this morning.  Man, they do sound great.  One problem though, they really need to go to 11 to shine.  Sadly, they stop at 10.  Was having fit issues.  Took off the wings and they fit much better without them for me.  Immersed in some Mastodon.  Heaven.


----------



## Luchyres

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Think Wavelet would work out for you? Might work as a good stand-in for not having a TWS EQ.


Unfortunately I'm on iOS, which _I think_ means there isn't a wavelet equivalent for me?


----------



## BigZ12

Spatial Audio from Apple TV (TVOS15 beta4) with Airpods Pro/Max is fun, just saying


----------



## erockg

BigZ12 said:


> Spatial Audio from Apple TV (TVOS15 beta4) with Airpods Pro/Max is fun, just saying


Finally.  Can't wait.


----------



## Tommy C (Aug 10, 2021)

Luchyres said:


> Unfortunately I'm on iOS, which _I think_ means there isn't a wavelet equivalent for me?


for iOS the closest app to manipulate sound output via Bluetooth is SoundID by Sonarworks and while not perfect, it works.
You will need to find your TWS in their database of devices. If you're unable to find it, pick a similar device that has the same chipset.
Once you set it up, take their sound test and from there you can either use one of their pre-sets eq or customize one.


----------



## CocaCola15 (Aug 10, 2021)

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Can you elaborate on this? I'll put something together and send it off later today if this is the case. I've been battling congestion, so any notes on FR over the past couple days would be skewed, especially with upper midrange/treble response.


Well, I noticed using the new "neutral" preset that treble sibilance was now in play (this is with 2.1.7 and 2.1.8). I had to tone down the EQ on the right two settings, and not a little, to get the Touch back to sounding acceptable (very good, actually).

Update: So I just went to use the MTs and what do I find but another FW update from 2.1.8 to 2.1.9 (last week was 2.1.7). What gives with CA? 3 FW updates within a week? That has a good/bad aspect, good they are fixing something, bad their updates are seemingly causing new issues. TBH, I put the MTs up for sale on the forum, mainly because I decided I prefer the CA M1+, not just for sound, which is pretty close, but also because I only need one pair of CAs, and I have the UE Fits on order. Anyway, not sure what CA encountered. But I do know the sound sig changed with 2.1.7/2.1.8 and using the neutral EQ setting caused sibilance that never happened before to my ears. I have been using the same tips all along.

I just read over the 2.1.9 notes and it says that "immersive" is the default setting in the app EQ. I guess I thought neutral made more sense, but they say neutral replaces bass boost? Is someone at CA hitting the pub a bit too much?

Another update: Maybe I am just crazy but the sibilance seems to have disappeared, using the neutral setting, no EQ on the player (Kaiser Audio) either (set to off).

Anyway, debating on whether to keep them. I do like the Touch, no doubt about it. But my ears are different and the right side never seems to fit properly, as opposed to the M1+ which allow me to use their OEM foam tips, which I absolutely love (and bought 10 pair on Amazon to prove it! Haha). So I guess I will part with the MTs, again, they are excellent TW phones, but my stable has too many horses right now. And I expect the UE Fits to be keepers.


----------



## tiagopinto

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Can you elaborate on this? I'll put something together and send it off later today if this is the case. I've been battling congestion, so any notes on FR over the past couple days would be skewed, especially with upper midrange/treble response.



So… surprise, surprise:






and then every two minutes (if it helps the guys in dev with timing or whatever)





At 2 min





At 4 min





At 6 min





At 8 min





At 10 min… aaaand done. 





My first take on this is they shouldn’t have touched the FR after the 1.4.2 update (meaning just before 2.1.7)
Here, I believe the MT sound was at its best, imho. 


With 2.1.7 and 2.1.8 the firmware notes and date are exactly the same. This should never happen because it confuses the customer. “So what are you exactly doing this time?” A short “technical improvements with connectivity” on 2.1.8 would suffice. Even if it’s not only that that they’re doing, as we know. 

The update process itself was very similar with no hiccups. 

Sadly, I must begin to agree they may have tried to broaden the FR. More lower bass and less treble roll off are my initial impressions.
I may be suggested because I’ve been listening much more to wired after the last weekend but, when I picked these up today, it may seem that when they touched the lower bass they may have boomed up the mid-bass (a consequence?), which now I feel could use a little taming. Maybe there’s a little more shrill in the upper treble but this doesn’t bother me as much. 
Mids haven’t lost definition but they may have lost a little presence when the bass comes in. 
These were never linear buds but I did love their “balance” and timbre after 1.4.2. Here they had all the separation and clarity I craved for in them. 
I’d love to hear more from others on this. On the one hand I hope to be proven wrong. On the other, I wish my ears aren’t failing me.
If I’m right, tell them to put it back. This driver may not be a beast for all they want it to be. 
If I’m wrong, I need EQ and an audio test…


----------



## CocaCola15 (Aug 10, 2021)

Check again, the MT FW is now 2.1.9.


----------



## tiagopinto

CocaCola15 said:


> Well, I noticed using the new "neutral" preset that treble sibilance was now in play. I have to tone down the EQ on the right two settings, and not a little, to get the Touch back to sounding acceptable (very good, actually).
> 
> Update: So I just went to use the MTs and what do I find, another FW update from 2.1.8 to 2.1.9 (last week was 2.1.7). What gives with CA? 3 FW updates within a week? That has a good/bad aspect, good they are fixing something, bad their updates are seemingly causing new issues. TBH, I put the MTs up for sale on the forum, mainly because I decided I prefer the CA M1+, not just for sound, which is pretty close, but also because I only need one pair of CAs, and I have the UE Fits on order. Anyway, not sure what CA encountered. But I do know the sound sig changed and using the neutral EQ setting hurt my ears. And I have been using the same tips all along.
> 
> ...



I’m extremely happy now... 





... for 2 reasons...

1st reason is I may not be aurally confused. Albeit two FW updates in the same day would help getting there. My ears are not failing me. @CocaCola15 noticed it too, although he didn’t mention the bass...

2nd reason is whoever hit the pub on 2.1.7 and had an extra shot for 2.1.8 stayed in the pub and someone else took over for 2.1.9. The bass has regained its texture and now is not overpowering.

I have been listening to music on headphones for 10 hours+ today so fatigue may surely hinder my judgement. I do need further testing tomorrow morning but I would risk by saying the tuning has gone back to 1.4.2 specs... or close.

Phew, that was scary. Echo and the other gods are on my (our) side. They’ve brought the MT back!


----------



## jasonb

I'm not a big fan of a company changing the sound of their product like that. You're never going to have 100% of the people who bought that product like every change that is made to frequency response. Frequency response should be left alone and not changed on random updates.


----------



## CocaCola15

tiagopinto said:


> I’m extremely happy now...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Glad I was apparently not crazy. I started to doubt myself after 2.1.7 and 2.1.8. I am more treble sensitive, so the bass wasn't on my mind. Just glad 2.1.9 showed up.


----------



## tiagopinto

jasonb said:


> I'm not a big fan of a company changing the sound of their product like that. You're never going to have 100% of the people who bought that product like every change that is made to frequency response. Frequency response should be left alone and not changed on random updates.



I totally agree. Subtle changes from before 1.4.2 up to it were very welcome. These “sudden moves” are not. Please bear in mind my ears are very fatigued today. But I did use my usual test playlist, listening to the same tracks or segments on every new FW. I do trust my ears usually so I hope I’m not too off... 

https://tidal.com/playlist/fef9464a-cb19-4a7d-814a-ab499934b364


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

erockg said:


> Using my Nuratrue buds this morning.  Man, they do sound great.  One problem though, they really need to go to 11 to shine.  Sadly, they stop at 10.  Was having fit issues.  Took off the wings and they fit much better without them for me.  Immersed in some Mastodon.  Heaven.


Mastodon is fantastic. Try Grorr if you want something similar. All of their stuff is on Bandcamp 


Luchyres said:


> Unfortunately I'm on iOS, which _I think_ means there isn't a wavelet equivalent for me?


Darn. Didn't think about the iOS thing. SoundID would work, I suppose. Keep forgetting some things are very different between ecosystems.


CocaCola15 said:


> Well, I noticed using the new "neutral" preset that treble sibilance was now in play (this is with 2.1.7 and 2.1.8). I had to tone down the EQ on the right two settings, and not a little, to get the Touch back to sounding acceptable (very good, actually).


Hmm maybe that's what I was hearing last night. I thought it was just a by-product of me using Transparency Mode


CocaCola15 said:


> Update: So I just went to use the MTs and what do I find but another FW update from 2.1.8 to 2.1.9 (last week was 2.1.7). What gives with CA? 3 FW updates within a week? That has a good/bad aspect, good they are fixing something, bad their updates are seemingly causing new issues. TBH, I put the MTs up for sale on the forum, mainly because I decided I prefer the CA M1+, not just for sound, which is pretty close, but also because I only need one pair of CAs, and I have the UE Fits on order. Anyway, not sure what CA encountered. But I do know the sound sig changed with 2.1.7/2.1.8 and using the neutral EQ setting caused sibilance that never happened before to my ears. I have been using the same tips all along.
> 
> I just read over the 2.1.9 notes and it says that "immersive" is the default setting in the app EQ. I guess I thought neutral made more sense, but they say neutral replaces bass boost? Is someone at CA hitting the pub a bit too much?


Can't speak for them, but I will forward this info on. Probably would help to have a reasonable explanation, but my guess would be that these are meant for the folks having TWS+ issues; they've been having a real tough time accounting for that.

Could say it's frustrating enough to warrant a few trips to the pub...


CocaCola15 said:


> Another update: Maybe I am just crazy but the sibilance seems to have disappeared, using the neutral setting, no EQ on the player (Kaiser Audio) either (set to off).
> 
> Anyway, debating on whether to keep them. I do like the Touch, no doubt about it. But my ears are different and the right side never seems to fit properly, as opposed to the M1+ which allow me to use their OEM foam tips, which I absolutely love (and bought 10 pair on Amazon to prove it! Haha). So I guess I will part with the MTs, again, they are excellent TW phones, but my stable has too many horses right now. And I expect the UE Fits to be keepers.


I think they'll be keepers, too, knowing what you enjoy listening to. Should be a nice reprieve from the bass emphasis of your previous sets.


tiagopinto said:


> So… surprise, surprise:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Taking notes, so thank you for being this thorough. Maybe the tuning changes are Easter Eggs. Personally, I'm glad they're taking risks and not every one of them is going to pay off; looks like that's what you and @CocaCola15 encountered. Wish I could have isolated it as well. Mucinex D will help with that today...

Let me send this info off to the dev team. I'm about to attempt pushing 2.1.9 on the OP8T. Thanks again for the heads up!


----------



## Tommy C

And on a side note, where do you guys see the CA Melomania Touch available?
I checked on their site, Amazon to no avail.


----------



## krenzler

CJYYZ said:


> What does everyone think of the Sennheiser Momentum True Wireless 2 earbuds from a sound quality/stability perspective? I've read they've fixed the battery drain issue from the original model, but are they good enough to be in your top 5 list?


Only TWS I've had (and still have) before MTW2 is APP so my 2c may not be worth a whole lot.  I run iOS. They do sound better than APP. Audiophile sound tuning needs to be turned on. With the supplied silicone tips I found the stock tuning to be off - V-shaped. Tried the EQ and better but not 100% impressed. Ordered the Comply premium tips specifically for Sennheiser TWS and now much better. No EQ needed and the sound is well balanced to my ears. They are not bass cannons and the EQ is a rather basic 3-band. With Comply they take some effort and patience to get right in the ears - nowhere near APP ease of use plug and play. But I really like them.


----------



## C_Lindbergh

Tommy C said:


> And on a side note, where do you guys see the CA Melomania Touch available?
> I checked on their site, Amazon to no avail.



https://www.cambridgeaudio.com/eur/en/products/headphones/melomania-touch


----------



## jasonb

tiagopinto said:


> I totally agree. Subtle changes from before 1.4.2 up to it were very welcome. These “sudden moves” are not. Please bear in mind my ears are very fatigued today. But I did use my usual test playlist, listening to the same tracks or segments on every new FW. I do trust my ears usually so I hope I’m not too off...
> 
> https://tidal.com/playlist/fef9464a-cb19-4a7d-814a-ab499934b364


I recently had gotten the WF1000XM4. I tried the MT again right after the update and wasn't liking what I was hearing. I was chalking it up to my brain just being used to the WF1000XM4, but it may not have been just that.


----------



## SemiAudiophile

tiagopinto said:


> Please don’t get me wrong. Not having tried anything Noble, I’ve heard none other than good things about them, NFP and all.
> 
> But I believe it’s still early to cater for the straight audiophile in TWS with current BT compression. So, if they want to implement hybrids, for me, they have to have more features. More so at 350.


I'm with you there. The only reason to go TWS is for the convenience and features that otherwise wired components can't provide. 

As good as it can sound at $350, it prob won't be that much better than a $200 IEM with $80 BT adapter. 

I'm not familiar with the Noble brand either, so maybe I misjudged them too early. But at $350, it'll be hard to spend on TWS unless it had at least LDAC support or something extra other than great sound.


----------



## JBean

CJYYZ said:


> Apparently AptX Adaptive is backwards compatible with AptX  and AptX-HD: https://www.aptx.com/aptx-adaptive
> 
> Unfortunately I don't have anything AptX to connect to, so I don't know which codec(s) the Z7 uses. I'd really like to know to get an idea of what kind of latency to expect, because I'm eyeing the Fiio BTA30 (or it's successor) to connect to my TV audio. It would be great to pull back the curtain and see what's going on behind the scenes.


Thanks! I have the Z7s now, and yes, they do connect on my phone (Huawei P10) to standard aptx.  Have you (or anyone else who owns the Lypertek Z7) been using the foam tips? They are quite challenging to get on, and I don't want to find myself in the same  situation as a few others in terms of ending up with a broken nozzle. I always use foam tips on my Tevis, and they are great. Does anyone have any recommendations for foam tips with a slightly wider bore than the Z7 Flexifit tips?


----------



## bubsdaddy

Does anyone have any experience running with the Jabra 75t Active and an Apple Watch as the source? I wear my watch on the left wrist and the Jabra cuts out like mad. I'll try the right wrist but it's disappointing that Mpow and Soundpeats make TWS that can use my Apple Watch without issue but the Jabra can't.


----------



## camms

Hello wise and experienced TWS enthusiasts!

I'm wondering if anyone has experience with both the M&D MW08S and the Devialet Gemini.  I want CA MTs but have no idea how long I'll have to wait for them to be available again.  So why not spend some more $$$ for instant gratification?!  Haha.

Jokes aside, I'm curious about differences in SQ and importantly, if either the MW08S or Gemini could stay put during a run.

Also considering the klipsch and NFP but for whatever reason the Devialet and M&D have caught my interest.  UE Fits aren't available in Canada.  How stupid is that?

Thanks in advance!


----------



## Tommy C

C_Lindbergh said:


> https://www.cambridgeaudio.com/eur/en/products/headphones/melomania-touch


Thanks! However since I'm not in Europe so when being redirected to North America the option to purchase isn't available


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

Tommy C said:


> Thanks! However since I'm not in Europe so when being redirected to North America the option to purchase isn't available


I've noticed that recently as well, but don't have an answer for it. Did email out about the recent round of firmware updates, but we probably won't see an answer for another 12 or so hours.


----------



## CocaCola15

Tommy C said:


> And on a side note, where do you guys see the CA Melomania Touch available?
> I checked on their site, Amazon to no


As an FYI, I listed my MTs on the for sale forum and the potential buyer said he contacted CA and they said they have supply chain issues (parts availability etc.) and could not give him a date for restocking.  I probably will sell them, for reasons stated. I just have too much stuff and honestly prefer the M1+.


----------



## Luchyres

camms said:


> Hello wise and experienced TWS enthusiasts!
> 
> I'm wondering if anyone has experience with both the M&D MW08S and the Devialet Gemini.  I want CA MTs but have no idea how long I'll have to wait for them to be available again.  So why not spend some more $$$ for instant gratification?!  Haha.
> 
> ...


I strongly advocate for the Devialet over M&D personally. Devialet were phenomenal but a few glitches made them not my daily carry - but they may be my favorite sound yet. I found the M&D clear, but uninspiring.


----------



## Luchyres

CocaCola15 said:


> As an FYI, I listed my MTs on the for sale forum and the potential buyer said he contacted CA and they said they have supply chain issues (parts availability etc.) and could not give him a date for restocking.  I probably will sell them, for reasons stated. I just have too much stuff and honestly prefer the M1+.


Ooph, alas they are the white!  I've been going all black.


----------



## jant71 (Aug 10, 2021)

I saw that these are out there even though there is no real other proof of their existence on Google or on the JVC site...


 The Z55T Gumy mini. Tiny beater in some cool colors. I got the Matcha green. First JVC budget with USB C connector. The goal is to see if they are a TWS version of the FX22W(FX28W in Japan) which is a small cheap comfy fit wireless with a special sort of sound that is why you still troll in the budget realm. Some technical ability that you can't complain but they have a character and personality that engages and makes you like to listen regardless of price. Good to have a beater as well. No real complaints with any JVC so far except maybe the HA-A8T which is good but they have to fit you and have no sort of fit kit and they are small for an earpod style so not for many if they don't have the ears. Victor FXT100 still a top performer, the runners bud still the best fit and sweet sound using the on board bass boost and "Classic EQ" on my DAP. Also the semi wireless FX22W which was on sale for $9.95 and a pleasant surprise. I got these for $25 and we'll see after they charge up if they are  gonna have a little fun magic to them.

As far as the origin this is interesting...


----------



## erockg

camms said:


> Hello wise and experienced TWS enthusiasts!
> 
> I'm wondering if anyone has experience with both the M&D MW08S and the Devialet Gemini.  I want CA MTs but have no idea how long I'll have to wait for them to be available again.  So why not spend some more $$$ for instant gratification?!  Haha.
> 
> ...


I prefer the Devialet over the MW08S but I do have and enjoy both. Neither are good for heavy workouts. I can imagine they'd fall out of your ears. That said, the sound quality is wonderful on both. Better on the Devialet. They fixed all the firmware issues and re-released the buds a few months back.  I have zero issues.


----------



## jasonb (Aug 10, 2021)

So I'm not sure if I should blame it on the firmware updates changing the sound, or if I just greatly prefer my WF1000XM4's now, but I'm just not liking the Melomania Touch's right now. The WF1000XM4 with a simple tip change, using LDAC, and no EQ at all sounds way more neutral and detailed. I just put my Melomania Touch's in my ears, updated the firmware to the latest one, and I'm still not as happy with the sound as I was a few weeks ago.

If anyone wants to make me an offer to buy mine since nobody seems to have them in stock I may take you up on it.


----------



## camms

Thanks so much for the responses.  After sifting through as much of this thread as I could I see a lot of people love the sound signature on the Devialets, and as you say it seems all the firmware issues have been ironed out.  Maybe I should pull the trigger and if I still want something for running, get something with ear hooks or similar.

How about a best SQ for running TWS recommendation?  How bad do the Powerbeats Pro sound?

Cheers all!


----------



## CJYYZ (Aug 10, 2021)

JBean said:


> Thanks! I have the Z7s now, and yes, they do connect on my phone (Huawei P10) to standard aptx.  Have you (or anyone else who owns the Lypertek Z7) been using the foam tips? They are quite challenging to get on, and I don't want to find myself in the same  situation as a few others in terms of ending up with a broken nozzle. I always use foam tips on my Tevis, and they are great. Does anyone have any recommendations for foam tips with a slightly wider bore than the Z7 Flexifit tips?


I didn't have any luck with the stock tips (silicone or foam). I ended up using large Final silicone tips. And be careful changing tips. One of my nozzles snapped off, but luckily the store I bought them from sent me a new replacement pair.


----------



## CJYYZ

jasonb said:


> So I'm not sure if I should blame it on the firmware updates changing the sound, or if I just greatly prefer my WF1000XM4's now, but I'm just not liking the Melomania Touch's right now. The WF1000XM4 with a simple tip change, using LDAC, and no EQ at all sounds way more neutral and detailed. I just put my Melomania Touch's in my ears, updated the firmware to the latest one, and I'm still not as happy with the sound as I was a few weeks ago.
> 
> If anyone wants to make me an offer to buy mine since nobody seems to have them in stock I may take you up on it.


I'll trade you for the Lypertek Z7s. Amazing sound, but I can't seem to get a proper fit with them.


----------



## samandhi

Luchyres said:


> @miserybeforethemusic I can't help but still be curious about the MT - I do like me some bass and fun tuning as as long as it's not at too much of a cost.
> 
> I bought the JBL Tour Pro+ and, with a lot of EQing, got them somewhere I'm ok with, but thinking I'll sell.
> 
> ...


I don't have the N6P 2, but I have the N6P and the MT. I can tell you that they are polar opposites. MT are warmer, and more of a fun tuned TWS. The N6P are more neutral, and very revealing for a TWS. They are also pretty picky with lower quality tracks than the MT. The MT sound just as good with Spotify mp3s, as they do with 24/96 stuff because they are so warm, and the upper treble is a bit rolled off. This is not to say that you can't hear any details though. If you want a pair for only out and about MT are the way to go, but if you are in a quiet place and/or at home, you might prefer the N6P (or N6P 2??). Bottom line is that the MT are more versatile in their tuning, whereas the N6P are really best for things that need detail retrieval. 

All this is my opinion only...


----------



## Tommy C

LordToneeus said:


> Noooo! Not stems! I sure did like my S80’s.


How did the S80 sound? Do they have an app? 
Do you feel they were worth their asking price?


----------



## samandhi

As to the newest FW update for the MT... I missed the 2.18 update apparently, and went straight from 2.17 to 2.19. I can tell you now that even though I hadn't heard these in a while, the sound sig has definitely changed. They can indeed get shouty a bit now with certain tracks. It is in the upper mids/lower treble that they boosted it most IMO. It makes the whole treble have more sparkle and clearer. I think the upper treble is still rolled off. So I think maybe you could think of it as a backwards (small) r shape, starting with upper mids and into the treble. These can definitely get shouty on stuff like Motorhead - Ace Of Spades but the treble now sounds a bit weird, thin, and recessed also. But, even when a song isn't shouty (per se'), it is pretty fatiguing after a bit (to my ears). But, my old ears have a 2k to 5k radar for such boosts... 

As for bass, they decreased the mid bass, and boosted the lower bass and possibly the upper bass. They still have a tremendous amount of bass quantity, but now they don't have the same punch they used to have, and that kinda' messes up the whole sound signature IMO. Was just listening to Whitesnake - Death Disco while I was typing this, and WOW that upper bass is just too much (I don't recall this being an issue before, though it IS possible that I missed it before I suppose). 

Mids are still recessed a bit, but are also still warm. Overall, I don't like the way they went with it. I was perfectly happy with the tuning on the FW update before the 2.17 update. The punchy bass, and non-shouty mids are part of what gave them their charm IMO, because now, they aren't neutral, nor are they really fun either. CA, if you are reading this, please go back to the sound they had before this rash of updates, and leave them alone (as far as FR goes)?!

Keep in mind, I could be wrong about all except upper bass, and upper mids, because when you boost one area, it may appear as if something else is decreased. They ARE indeed shouty now, and the bass line (not drums) takes front stage in your face.

With the 2.19 update they re-fixed the volume thing where you couldn't change the volume on the device but ONLY on the buds (whether you had absolute volume disabled or not). 

I upated mine through my DX300, and it went without hitch (again), and only took about 5 minutes or so.


----------



## Tommy C

samandhi said:


> As to the newest FW update for the MT... I missed the 2.18 update apparently, and went straight from 2.17 to 2.19. I can tell you now that even though I hadn't heard these in a while, the sound sig has definitely changed. They can indeed get shouty a bit now with certain tracks. It is in the upper mids/lower treble that they boosted it most IMO. It makes the whole treble have more sparkle and clearer. I think the upper treble is still rolled off. So I think maybe you could think of it as a backwards (small) r shape, starting with upper mids and into the treble. These can definitely get shouty on stuff like Motorhead - Ace Of Spades but the treble now sounds a bit weird, thin, and recessed also. But, even when a song isn't shouty (per se'), it is pretty fatiguing after a bit (to my ears). But, my old ears have a 2k to 5k radar for such boosts...
> 
> As for bass, they decreased the mid bass, and boosted the lower bass and possibly the upper bass. They still have a tremendous amount of bass quantity, but now they don't have the same punch they used to have, and that kinda' messes up the whole sound signature IMO. Was just listening to Whitesnake - Death Disco while I was typing this, and WOW that upper bass is just too much (I don't recall this being an issue before, though it IS possible that I missed it before I suppose).
> 
> ...



Thanks for letting us know.
I was really locked-in to order these once they become available in U.S/ Canada but I'm really hesitant based on reports that the SS has changed with each FW update. :-/


----------



## FYLegend

helmutcheese said:


> https://www.bluetoothgoodies.com/
> 
> https://www.bluetoothgoodies.com/tweaker/


Some users have complained that Windows was choosing AAC over AptX on their devices. That might explain why Dyplay Urban Traveller headphones sound cleaner now.

Here are the results for Galaxy Buds+ with the latest Win 11 Beta. It only has "202" for the AAC bitrate - is this the minimum VR bitrate?


----------



## samandhi

Tommy C said:


> Thanks for letting us know.
> I was really locked-in to order these once they become available in U.S/ Canada but I'm really hesitant based on reports that the SS has changed with each FW update. :-/


I know what you mean. I was very hesitant to update because of that very issue, but I was being stupid and gave in to the update fever...  I should have left well enough alone because I didn't have ANY issues that needed fixing on mine... 

It is not to say they are all bad, because they aren't. The first FW that shipped with them was the absolute worst. It was super boosted bass, but also super muddy and boomy. Mids were so recessed you couldn't hardly hear them, and the treble was so rolled off that you could barely make out any sort of clarity. They fixed it, and it got better until the last FW update before 2.17 where they got it just right (in a fun tuned sort of way). Bottom line is that they are currently somewhere in between what they were to begin with, and what they were at that last update (as far as how good they sound). 

This changes the order at which I would put my current line-up of TWS:

Nuarl N6 Pro
Hifiman TWS600
Bose Soundsport Free (OG version) tied with Cambridge Audio Melomania Touch
Sorry CA. I don't hate them, but even the SBC only Bose is tied with the MT atm. They sound almost alike save for the 2 or 3k spike and a bit less bass on the Bose (which is actually impressive considering the Bose are open).


----------



## DUNU-Topsound

jant71 said:


> Hard to buy that with plenty of cheaper stuff with the features. How can Nuarl and CA give good sound and ambient for under $150? Edifier just did dual hybrid with amplifier chip, six mics, ANC, and programmed in a Hi-Res codec for $100.



There are companies that go all-in on TWS with their products, enough to center their entire sales strategy around true wireless. Thus, they structure their entire business around developing true wireless products. We can also do that, if we go out and raise more capital from investors, though that also means the customer pays it back somewhere else down the line, as that means hiring employees dedicated for TWS, changing our sales structure, etc. We've also considered going the crowdfunding route. Again, it takes a readjustment of human and capital resources to get something substantial going. Is it potentially our fault? Perhaps. We did not move fast enough to get ourselves well-positioned to ride the true wireless wave. We also sunk our resources into developing esoterica like metal domed drivers. Doing so means a few less trips to the anechoic chamber certified for testing ANC, and means less money to pay a third party to implement all the microphones for us. An ODM/OEM will probably throw that service in for free if we order, say 20,000 units at once. But because we don't want to be caught in inventory hell, we don't order that many units at once. On the flipside, a company like, say, Pamu, can do push that many units easily, because they're not marketing their products to the enthusiast and instead to Jack and Jill.


----------



## Tenlow (Aug 11, 2021)

Comparison Sony WF-1000XM4 and Master&Dynamic MW08 Sport




*Build Quality*: That kevlar case of the MW08S is so much nicer and feels way more premium. It seems much more stable/durable, too (no play whatsoever, unlike the Sony case). I also like the three LEDs on the front (one for each bud plus one for the charging case). The M&D case slightly taller while Sony case is a bit wider in dimensions. Both cases offer charging via USB-C as well as wireless charging. The buds themselves are well built on the Sony but maybe a bit chunky, while the MW08S provide a sapphire glas finish and just look and feel gorgeous. *Winner: M&D (1:0)*
*Battery life* is exceptional on both devices. Up to 12 hours are possible (10 with ANC) on the M&D, while Sony provides 8 hours with ANC and also a possible 12 hours with ANC off. Total (theoretical) battery running times (including the case’s battery) are 36 hours on the Sonys and 42 hours on the MW08S. Both offer quick charge. So, even though both are incredible here, the M&D take the cake ever so slightly. *Winner: M&D (2:0)*
*Connectivity* is also very impressive on both buds. Both offer Bluetooth 5.2. The XM4 have SBC, AAC and LDAC codecs, while the MW08S offer SBC, AAC and aptX Adaptive. Bluetooth range is pretty much equally as good and stable on both as well. Both don’t offer multipoint connection unfortunately. However, both can use either the left or the right bud while the other one charges in the case. So each bud establishes its own connection and there is no so-called “hero and sidekick” implementation, which is very good. Switching to paired devices is, however, better implemented on the Sonys. You can just directly connect to a previously paired device, while you have to go to bluetooth pairing mode first on the MW08S before you can connect. This minor inconvenience on the M&D make Sony the winner here. *Winner: Sony (2:1)*
*Fit/Comfort* is highly subjective of course, so I can only speak for myself here. I’m a relatively tall guy (1,90m) and have normal to big ears. Still, I can definitely feel the XM4 more in my ears. At first, they were even a bit painful and my ears had to adjust to the new sore spots, which they luckily did after some time. Now, the XM4 are relatively comfortable even and don’t hurt any more but they are still a bit bulbous and I never forget that I’m wearing them. For me, the MW08S shine in the comfort department. They don’t feel heavy and most of the buds size is “outside” the ear and therefore there are no sore spots or anything like that. They really are supremely comfortable (and stable!) in my ears and I can wear them for several hours without any issues. M&D also provides 5 silicone ear tips + 3 foam tips, while Sony only offers 3 sizes of their new “hybrid foam NC” tips. *Winner: M&D (3:1)*
*Passive and active noise isolation* is better on the Sony, also partly already due to the aforementioned new tips. They really block out a lot of noise on their own already without any ANC. The MW08S also provide very good passive noise isolation if you use the included foam tips (which is typical for foam tips of course). Still, the XM4 are a bit better here. More importantly, ANC is clearly better on the WF-1000XM4. While the M&D are no slouch and good enough for most situations, the Sony are simply a level higher here and are rightfully called the best ANC buds as of now (together with the Bose buds maybe). ANC is seriously impressive on the XM4. The MW08S have slightly better ANC then the MTW2 from Sennheiser, I would say (just for reference). *Winner: Sony (3:2)*
*App support* scores the next point for the XM4. While both InEars have an accompanying app, the M&D is fairly sparse in direct comparison. You can set the standard modes for ANC and transparency mode there, rename the buds, set an auto-off timer, turn in-ear detection on or off and install firmware updates. That’s it. Sonys app offers a plethora of features on top of that, like adjusting automatic ambient sound modes, an actually usable 6 band EQ (!), adjusting touch gestures for both sides, the very useful “speak to chat” feature, DSEE Extreme upscaling, showing the currently used codec and even more than that. *Winner: Sony (3:3)*
*Audio quality* is very good on both offerings. I like the stock tuning of the MW08S better than the XM4’s stock EQ. It is clear, “wide”, with detailed highs and a nice punchy (not muddy) bass response. It’s understandable why the went with a sound signature like this. It will please many people. What makes the XM4 stand out here, though, is that a) they can get louder if needed (I always like that “freedom”) and more importantly they have the previously mentioned EQ in the app that makes them soo versatile sound wise as they really respond well to that EQ! Stock tuning is a bit dark/warm with lacking treble extension and not many details in the highs in general. The EQ, however, solves that “problem” for me entirely and I love how the XM4 sound after EQ. Ultimately, the XM4 win this category because of their EQ. Otherwise, it would have been a draw. *Winner: Sony (3:4)*
*Controls* are completely different. Sony uses a very responsive and accurate touch control implementation while the Master&Dynamic use tactile physical buttons. You can play/Pause, skip or reverse tracks, (de-) activate ANC and transparency mode and summon your personal assistant like Siri as well as enter pairing mode with no issues on both models. Both work very well and I cannot say that I do have a real preference here. If you do, you might want to consider this, however. Still, for me, the M&D take this round just because you can additionally increase/decrease the volume on the left bud without having to sacrifice another feature for it (which you have to do on the XM4, as of now at least, as you can only set one control scheme per bud and not multiple at the moment). *Winner: M&D (4:4)*
*Call quality/microphones* are equally ok and very usable. I tested both for a couple of calls and had no complaints on either model. They may not be the best buds around for calls but they work well enough. I cannot say which one is (much) better here, honestly. They're both no Airpods here. *Winner: Draw (4:4). *
*Price/Performance ratio and conclusion*: It is very much debatable of course. The XM4 are significantly more "affordable" being 70€ less here (279€ vs. 349€) and offer more features as well as the better sound quality (EQ'd!!) and better ANC. They are the more "complete" package/allrounder. So, rationally, the XM4 are the better buy and value for money if you're looking for premium wireless Bluetooth ANC inears. They would also be my pick in this category because of it. That said, in times of the Bowers&Wilkins PI7, e.g. which are even an additional 50€ compared to the MW08S, the MW08S still have a lot going for them (compared to both the XM4 and the PI7 that is). They have that wonderful kevlar case, excellent build quality on the buds (sapphire glas), are more comfortable (to me), have the better total battery life, great controls, offer the much larger selection of included (7, silicone and foam) tips while also sounding very good. I will keep both the XM4 and the MW08S for now as I love them equally at the moment. Time will tell how this feeling develops  *Winner: You choose *


----------



## helmutcheese

FYLegend said:


> Some users have complained that Windows was choosing AAC over AptX on their devices. That might explain why Dyplay Urban Traveller headphones sound cleaner now.
> 
> Here are the results for Galaxy Buds+ with the latest Win 11 Beta. It only has "202" for the AAC bitrate - is this the minimum VR bitrate?


I doubt it as I can connect on same earphones at 300k and even 330k (random and it was 285k in my screenshot).


----------



## BobJS

Tommy C said:


> Thanks! However since I'm not in Europe so when being redirected to North America the option to purchase isn't available



https://www.head-fi.org/threads/goi...soon-or-are-we-there-yet.861024/post-16486493


----------



## BobJS

CocaCola15 said:


> As an FYI, I listed my MTs on the for sale forum and the potential buyer said he contacted CA and they said they have supply chain issues (parts availability etc.) and could not give him a date for restocking.  I probably will sell them, for reasons stated. I just have too much stuff and honestly prefer the M1+.



Could you elaborate about what you prefer about the M1+ ?

Thanks


----------



## LordToneeus

Tommy C said:


> How did the S80 sound? Do they have an app?
> Do you feel they were worth their asking price?


Bear in mind, this was two years ago, but to me they were a breath of fresh air.  There was just such clarity, such neutrality compared to what I had been sampling.  I paid $45.99 for them, and I'd still have them if I hadn't gifted them that Christmas.  

There was no app back then.


----------



## tiagopinto

samandhi said:


> I know what you mean. I was very hesitant to update because of that very issue, but I was being stupid and gave in to the update fever...  I should have left well enough alone because I didn't have ANY issues that needed fixing on mine...
> 
> It is not to say they are all bad, because they aren't. The first FW that shipped with them was the absolute worst. It was super boosted bass, but also super muddy and boomy. Mids were so recessed you couldn't hardly hear them, and the treble was so rolled off that you could barely make out any sort of clarity. They fixed it, and it got better until the last FW update before 2.17 where they got it just right (in a fun tuned sort of way). Bottom line is that they are currently somewhere in between what they were to begin with, and what they were at that last update (as far as how good they sound).
> 
> ...



Well, I confess I haven’t had the guts to pick them up today. I’ve been listening to music through speakers. I really don’t want to face the disappointment of listening to different MT’s...

I’m not selling them as I hope this will be corrected, SOON!

(How can a brand have issues with a product, reach a stable point where more people become interested, have material shortages to continue to push the product... then just decide to release drastic sound signature altering updates, clearly without testing them first (or, at least, clearly after a longer visit to the pub) and then expect people to be happy? I don’t even want to understand... Do they expect to gain customer trust like this? Do they want us to remain interested in their future TWS products? Or interested in more of their products to be able to cross-sell? I just don’t get it...)

We are “it”. The créme de la créme. What better market barometer and testing ground than a few thousand crazies around the world who spend thousands in aural pleasure. And then spend hours daily, gathered around a global forum, discussing where we can get more of that pleasure. Impress us and you’ll impress the world.


----------



## acvjim (Aug 11, 2021)

clerkpalmer said:


> I’m not sure I’m ready to call BS. They are a high end IEM manufacturer focused on SQ. Kinda of like Dunu it doesn’t surprise me that this is the approach they are taking. I agree 349 is a bit rich and 299 would be more reasonable given the lack of technology. But I think there is a market for a tws designed solely for sound. Let’s give them a chance. The falcon 2 are well regarded around here.


I thought I'd give a bit of an explanation of my email to clerkpalmer.  I think most of us understand how ANC works, but a short description is that sample recordings of ambient noise are taken and played back as inverted sound waves, which results in the waves created by the ambient sound source being cancelled out.  ANC headphones do not have separate drivers for producing the inverted waves, and therefore, in the vast majority of ANC headphones, you are asking a single dynamic driver to not only produce waves for your music, but also at the same time to produce inverted waves that cancel out the ambient sound waves.  It is also the case that some of the waves being canceled out may involve waves associated with the music you are trying to listen to.  It is just plain physics that a single piston type dynamic driver cannot do all that is asked of it in such a scenario without some distortion being introduced into the equation.  A good explanation of how ANC works can be found at https://www.headphonesty.com/2020/10/noise-cancelling-vs-noise-isolating/  It is true that some very large companies with millions of dollars in RND have found very good workarounds for such physical limitations, but Noble certainly doesn't have such a budget. 

Another aspect of ANC that didn't fit with the FoKus is that the shape of the headphone itself is dictated by ANC.  That is why most ANC type headphones generally have the same bulbous or stick type shape.  We wanted a semi-custom shape for the FoKus.


----------



## scubaphish (Aug 11, 2021)

tiagopinto said:


> Well, I confess I haven’t had the guts to pick them up today. I’ve been listening to music through speakers. I really don’t want to face the disappointment of listening to different MT’s...
> 
> I’m not selling them as I hope this will be corrected, SOON!
> 
> ...


And to your final point, other manufacturers have/are taking notice of this forum and addressing the community. I think that’s a great way to interact with your most vocal and caring customer base. Kudos to them.I’m seriously impressed with the outreach.


----------



## CJYYZ

acvjim said:


> I thought I'd give a bit of an explanation of my email to clerkpalmer.  I think most of us understand how ANC works, but a short description is that sample recordings of ambient noise are taken and played back as inverted sound waves, which results in the waves created by the ambient sound source being cancelled out.  ANC headphones do not have separate drivers for producing the inverted waves, and therefore, in the vast majority of ANC headphones, you are asking a single dynamic driver to not only produce waves for your music, but also at the same time to produce inverted waves that cancel out the ambient sound waves.  It is also the case that some of the waves being canceled out may involve waves associated with the music you are trying to listen to.  It is just plain physics that a single piston type dynamic driver cannot do all that is asked of it in such a scenario without some distortion being introduced into the equation.  A good explanation of how ANC works can be found at https://www.headphonesty.com/2020/10/noise-cancelling-vs-noise-isolating/  It is true that some very large companies with millions of dollars in RND have found very good workarounds for such physical limitations, but Noble certainly doesn't have such a budget.
> 
> Another aspect of ANC that didn't fit with the FoKus is that the shape of the headphone itself is dictated by ANC.  That is why most ANC type headphones generally have the same bulbous or stick type shape.  We wanted a semi-custom shape for the FoKus.


Wow, thanks for the insightful explanation of how ANC works. I never thought of it as negatively impacting sound quality, which is my #1 priority. I suppose even if there was a dedicated ANC driver it would still impact sound quality, but to a lesser degree. I guess I'll cross any buds with ANC off my wish list.


----------



## CJYYZ (Aug 11, 2021)

samandhi said:


> I know what you mean. I was very hesitant to update because of that very issue, but I was being stupid and gave in to the update fever...  I should have left well enough alone because I didn't have ANY issues that needed fixing on mine...
> 
> It is not to say they are all bad, because they aren't. The first FW that shipped with them was the absolute worst. It was super boosted bass, but also super muddy and boomy. Mids were so recessed you couldn't hardly hear them, and the treble was so rolled off that you could barely make out any sort of clarity. They fixed it, and it got better until the last FW update before 2.17 where they got it just right (in a fun tuned sort of way). Bottom line is that they are currently somewhere in between what they were to begin with, and what they were at that last update (as far as how good they sound).
> 
> ...


I don't get it.. The MT seemed to be in a lot of head-fier's top 3, in a super saturated market. Why would they risk that position by messing with the sound signature? 

Is there a way to manually roll back to pre-2.17 FW? Do you think CA will fix it in the next update?

EDIT: I'm sure this was an honest mistake on CA's behalf that they'll rectify based on their customer's feedback (no pun intended). They've been around a while and really know their stuff. I was frustrated that I had finally found a set of earbuds that suit my needs, only to have them negatively altered by a FW update.


----------



## Tommy C (Aug 11, 2021)

CJYYZ said:


> Wow, thanks for the insightful explanation of how ANC works. I never thought of it as negatively impacting sound quality, which is my #1 priority. I suppose even if there was a dedicated ANC driver it would still impact sound quality, but to a lesser degree. I guess I'll cross any buds with ANC off my wish list.



I won't write off all TWSs that have ANC even though your top priority is sound quality.
Thus far TWS are mainly for convenience and getting rid of cables while on the go and moving around and there are so many other factors that impact the sound quality.
Shape, fit, tips, seal, phone or device, files and whatnot but I'm sure you know all that, may impact the overall sound more than if a pair of TWS is equipped with ANC.
Many companies, even the less known showed that you can have superb sound with ANC even though it may impact SQ but it might be negligible.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

CJYYZ said:


> I don't get it.. The MT seemed to be in a lot of head-fier's top 3, in a super saturated market. Why would they risk that position by messing with the sound signature? Are they trying to take the pressure off the demand for MT and push the M1+?


I doubt it's some sinister motive. I reached out for answers and will provide the necessary feedback on sound signature. My ears aren't reliable right now (head cold), so I can't weigh in on it. Everything up top is kinda hazy at the moment, so unless I have Beyer treble, I won't hear much.


CJYYZ said:


> Is there a way to manually roll back to pre-2.17 FW? Do you think CA will come to their senses and unbreak what was already fixed?


Careful with how you word that, please. There currently isn't a way to roll back drivers, but these guys are receptive to feedback. If this would be something of concern to you, I'd suggest emailing the CEO; he puts his direct address on every retail box:

jamesjf@cambridgeaudio.com


----------



## BigZ12

BooleanBones said:


> There are a few suggestions on non foam tips here recently. I landed on the Final type E TWS tips that I ordered from Hong Kong (MTM Audio). I have also used Crystal Sedna and the EPro TWS tips. I like those as well, but the Finals won my choice for use. @miserybeforethemusic has some really good posts on TWS tips for your reading pleasure in this thread as well.


Thanks for the tip (npi) regarding Final Type E tips and the XM4s. 
Got them from MTM Audio. Great service, labelled the package $5 so I didn't have any tax/toll problem. Very fast shipment.
Great fit, great sound and the ANC is working quite well. Very pleased so far.

Bought 2 pairs of M and L. Use the Ls on the Sony and my new Lypertek Z7. 
The Final E mediums fit well with my MTW2, but I actually prefer the Ms I got with my Beats X. Best fit ever, strangely enough. 

PS: I also bought a pair of the ePro horn-shaped nozzle eartips for Airpods Pro in L. 
Works great as well! Way better than stock tips, and I also think I prefer them over the Comply foams I've used lately. (maybe a little less bass, but more open detailed sound)
Have to test more before I'm 100% sure.


----------



## samandhi

tiagopinto said:


> Well, I confess I haven’t had the guts to pick them up today. I’ve been listening to music through speakers. I really don’t want to face the disappointment of listening to different MT’s...
> 
> I’m not selling them as I hope this will be corrected, SOON!
> 
> ...


I could not have put it more succinctly if I had to! 


scubaphish said:


> And to your final point, other manufacturers have/are taking notice of this forum and addressing the community. I think that’s a great way to interact with your most vocal and caring customer base. Kudos to them.I’m seriously impressed with the outreach.


In fairness to CA, they have done just that up until now. They have been pretty responsive with our thoughts about these. As far as tuning goes, I think they simply listened TOO much and lost their own vision on the buds?! I could be wrong though.


CJYYZ said:


> I don't get it.. The MT seemed to be in a lot of head-fier's top 3, in a super saturated market. Why would they risk that position by messing with the sound signature? Are they trying to take the pressure off the demand for MT and push the M1+?
> 
> Is there a way to manually roll back to pre-2.17 FW? Do you think CA will come to their senses and unbreak what was already fixed?


See above paragraph for my thoughts on why. 

AFAIK there is no way to downgrade, because you can't download (and save) the FW file, nor is there any software to initiate a manual install..


----------



## CJYYZ

miserybeforethemusic said:


> I doubt it's some sinister motive. I reached out for answers and will provide the necessary feedback on sound signature. My ears aren't reliable right now (head cold), so I can't weigh in on it. Everything up top is kinda hazy at the moment, so unless I have Beyer treble, I won't hear much.
> 
> Careful with how you word that, please. There currently isn't a way to roll back drivers, but these guys are receptive to feedback. If this would be something of concern to you, I'd suggest emailing the CEO; he puts his direct address on every retail box:
> 
> jamesjf@cambridgeaudio.com


I was overreacting, no disrespect to CA intended. I've edited my original post now that I've regained my composure.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

Ok MT folks. Here's something to try:

1. Please verify on the in-app EQ settings that Neutral didn't accidentally end up as a flat line placed above the X-axis. Mine did, tapping Neutral again brought it down to normal, tizziness subsides. It's still peakier than it was in the past and I've fed that back to the dev team.

Sounds like 2.1.9 was to compensate for something in 2.1.8 that didn't take properly. Hope that helps at least one person here.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

CJYYZ said:


> I was overreacting, no disrespect to CA intended. I've edited my original post now that I've regained my composure.


I get it, it can be frustrating to watch these constantly getting knocked out of the top. It's effectively a living product and not everybody is going to be willing to take the ride.


----------



## jasonb (Aug 11, 2021)

miserybeforethemusic said:


> I get it, it can be frustrating to watch these constantly getting knocked out of the top. It's effectively a living product and not everybody is going to be willing to take the ride.


There should be no ride. You buy an earphone for sound, the frequency response shouldn't change. If they want to add more presets or something like that, that is understandable, but don't go changing the default frequency response. Some may like the change, but you'll also end up with some who wont and will no longer be happy with the product they paid money for. Improving connection stability or improving the ambient sound mode, or fixing bugs is obviously ok, but don't mess with the way they sound.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

jasonb said:


> There should be no ride. You buy an earphone for sound, the frequency response shouldn't change. I'd they want to add more presets or something like that, that is understandable, but don't go changing the default frequency response. Some may like the change, but you'll also end up with some who wont and will no longer be happy with the product they paid money for. Improving connection stability or improving the ambient sound mode, or fixing bugs is obviously ok, but don't mess with the way they sound.


Bud, I don't think it's fair of you to dictate what a company can and can't do. If you want to have that sort of decision-making power, it's a lot easier to do at the helm of your own company. If you don't like this as an approach, that's fine, but you're speaking in absolutes and that's incredibly naive. Thanks for your perspective, but I don't appreciate the tone.


----------



## jasonb

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Bud, I don't think it's fair of you to dictate what a company can and can't do. If you want to have that sort of decision-making power, it's a lot easier to do at the helm of your own company. If you don't like this as an approach, that's fine, but you're speaking in absolutes and that's incredibly naive. Thanks for your perspective, but I don't appreciate the tone.


So you're ok with buying a product, then down the road the company changes the most important aspect of that product so that you no longer like the product you paid for?


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

jasonb said:


> So you're ok with buying a product, then down the road the company changes the most important aspect of that product so that you no longer like the product you paid for?


I'm okay with a company that's doing such a thing based on our feedback, yes.


----------



## BooleanBones

Me personally, I like the fact that Cambridge is attending to their products and not pushing something out the door that will rarely be looked at. If I have a major beef with something I purchase, I would pursue feedback/discussions with them or worst case get rid of the product (whatever that may be). Just my two cents though.


----------



## jasonb

miserybeforethemusic said:


> I'm okay with a company that's doing such a thing based on our feedback, yes.


I understand what you're saying but you're never going to keep every user happy doing things like that.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

BooleanBones said:


> Me personally, I like the fact that Cambridge is attending to their products and not pushing something out the door that will rarely be looked at. If I have a major beef with something I purchase, I would pursue feedback/discussions with them or worst case get rid of the product (whatever that may be). Just my two cents though.


Thank you. Not like the company makes it hard to reach somebody. We as consumers need to get over this idea that companies read our minds and just happen to know what we want. It's a two-way street.


jasonb said:


> I understand what you're saying but you're never going to keep every user happy doing things like that.


You'll never keep every user happy period. That's the problem.


----------



## jasonb

Edit: double post


----------



## Aevum

btw, anyone pulled the trigger on the new Galaxy Buds 2 ?


----------



## miserybeforethemusic (Aug 11, 2021)

@jasonb I think of this the same way I think of a friend of mine when it comes to how...selective they are regarding anything they buy. Food, tattoos, makeup, etc...the point is she can run some really skilled tattoo artists through the ringer because she knows exactly what she wants and communicates that all the way through. If that tattoo artist isn't receptive to my friend's requests, the whole vision collapses and my friend has to apply for a slot in one of those "tattoo repair" shows on TV. If the two of them stay locked in and communicate the whole time, however, that's a headline-worthy piece of ink and it almost always results in a ton of new business for that artist.

Right now, we're my friend regarding our selection criteria for TWS. If every one of those companies had an us giving them feedback (and assuming they actually took it), we'd be having a completely different (yet favorable) problem where everything is great and just pick your flavor. That's too idealistic, I think. Also, those large companies catering to what matters to us tends to price these products completely out of their target market (just look at the flak Noble's getting on price and the product isn't even on the market yet). Business is such a weird system of checks and balances; all we're doing is witnessing the compromise.

All I know is that when I throw this track on, it's a thunderous experience from beginning to end. The Melomania Touch, despite everything that's said about them, still evoke something for me, and that's why I love 'em. We just have to keep providing the feedback.


----------



## jasonb

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Thank you. Not like the company makes it hard to reach somebody. We as consumers need to get over this idea that companies read our minds and just happen to know what we want. It's a two-way street.
> 
> You'll never keep every user happy period. That's the problem.





miserybeforethemusic said:


> @jasonb I think of this the same way I think of a friend of mine when it comes to how...selective they are regarding anything they buy. Food, tattoos, makeup, etc...the point is she can run some really skilled tattoo artists through the ringer because she knows exactly what she wants and communicates that all the way through. If that tattoo artist isn't receptive to my friend's requests, the whole vision collapses and my friend has to apply for a slot in one of those "tattoo repair" shows on TV. If the two of them stay locked in and communicate the whole time, however, that's a headline-worthy piece of ink and it almost always results in a ton of new business for that artist.
> 
> Right now, we're my friend regarding our selection criteria for TWS. If every one of those companies had an us giving them feedback (and assuming they actually took it), we'd be having a completely different (yet favorable) problem where everything is great and just pick your flavor. That's too idealistic, I think. Also, those large companies catering to what matters to us tends to price these products completely out of their target market (just look at the flak Noble's getting on price and the product isn't even on the market yet). Business is such a weird system of checks and balances; all we're doing is witnessing the compromise.
> 
> All I know is that when I throw this track on, it's a thunderous experience from beginning to end. The Melomania Touch, despite everything that's said about them, still evoke something for me, and that's why I love 'em. We just have to keep providing the feedback.


I think I'll be trying to return them or just selling them. Not a fan of this "practice". I'm gonna stand by what I said. I really don't think frequency response should be changed with firmware updates.


----------



## BooleanBones

jasonb said:


> I think I'll be trying to return them or just selling them. Not a fan of this "practice". I'm gonna stand by what I said. I really don't think frequency response should be changed with firmware updates.


Just trying to understand what you are describing as I am a little confused. The response that was changed recently was your baseline neutral measurement when you purchased them, let's say it was firmware version 1.4.7 for the sake of discussion. That "neutral" you liked, but it was recently modified/changed in firmware update 2.1.9 and you don't like the new "neutral" as it was adjusted, right? In my example, how do you know 1.4.7 was truly neutral? It's just the baseline "neutral" that you liked when you bought the product, right? Not trying to debate with you, just simply understand the comment on them editing the tones of "neutral" which you are not happy with.


----------



## pholcus1975

For Android users complaining about MT sound  change with latest fw, just try deleting app cache, and check if you hear a further sound change. Do it while playing a track.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

pholcus1975 said:


> For Android users complaining about MT sound  change with latest fw, just try deleting app cache, and check if you hear a further sound change. Do it while playing a track.


Just attempted with no audible change. Interesting idea, though. Think it might have been something leftover in the cache that was messing with the new firmware?


----------



## jasonb

BooleanBones said:


> Just trying to understand what you are describing as I am a little confused. The response that was changed recently was your baseline neutral measurement when you purchased them, let's say it was firmware version 1.4.7 for the sake of discussion. That "neutral" you liked, but it was recently modified/changed in firmware update 2.1.9 and you don't like the new "neutral" as it was adjusted, right? In my example, how do you know 1.4.7 was truly neutral? It's just the baseline "neutral" that you liked when you bought the product, right? Not trying to debate with you, just simply understand the comment on them editing the tones of "neutral" which you are not happy with.



I'm not good at describing what I hear, but I liked the sound before the update, and now it's changed and I can't get them to sound as good as before. I've tried the neutral preset, I've tried adjusting the EQ to my tastes and I just can't make them sound like they did before the update.


----------



## pholcus1975

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Just attempted with no audible change. Interesting idea, though. Think it might have been something leftover in the cache that was messing with the new firmware?


Yes, since they changed something in the eq, I thought app cache could mess it up


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

Oh boy. Want to make it more interesting? Cycle between Neutral and a Custom EQ that's just set to flat. I think there's some additional DSP going on with that preset.


----------



## BooleanBones

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Oh boy. Want to make it more interesting? Cycle between Neutral and a Custom EQ that's just set to flat. I think there's some additional DSP going on with that preset.


Great, you guys are giving me too many things to try out now  Didn't get a chance to check some of this stuff out yet.


----------



## jant71

acvjim said:


> I thought I'd give a bit of an explanation of my email to clerkpalmer.  I think most of us understand how ANC works, but a short description is that sample recordings of ambient noise are taken and played back as inverted sound waves, which results in the waves created by the ambient sound source being cancelled out.  ANC headphones do not have separate drivers for producing the inverted waves, and therefore, in the vast majority of ANC headphones, you are asking a single dynamic driver to not only produce waves for your music, but also at the same time to produce inverted waves that cancel out the ambient sound waves.  It is also the case that some of the waves being canceled out may involve waves associated with the music you are trying to listen to.  It is just plain physics that a single piston type dynamic driver cannot do all that is asked of it in such a scenario without some distortion being introduced into the equation.  A good explanation of how ANC works can be found at https://www.headphonesty.com/2020/10/noise-cancelling-vs-noise-isolating/  It is true that some very large companies with millions of dollars in RND have found very good workarounds for such physical limitations, but Noble certainly doesn't have such a budget.
> 
> Another aspect of ANC that didn't fit with the FoKus is that the shape of the headphone itself is dictated by ANC.  That is why most ANC type headphones generally have the same bulbous or stick type shape.  We wanted a semi-custom shape for the FoKus.


Unless I missed but so far what came out that I saw(Just from the HK show) didn't show they will have ambient. I figure it should if the Falcon Pro did. ANC I am not really interested in any how. The other one was a Hi-Res codec some were interested in. Not sure I am till they both improve the battery life and esp. the connection. Really needs quality mics and ambient for $349. Kinda like buying a BMW that has hand cranks to roll the windows up and down. 

Speaking of connection, these JVC, they will be called the HA5T in the US do make a great cheap beater TWS. They best the Nuarl in size and ease of fit and comfort and will stay in more securely. They are pretty big sounding and fun. They do have a little something sweet in the sound. The surprise is the connection is extremely solid. The Nuarl was as good as any I have had but these are the new best connection king. 







If someone could just combine the JVC and Nuarl that would be great. The size, shape, fit, and connection of the JVC and the SQ of the the Nuarl and the good ambient and give the JVC top and/or bottom buttons like the Nuarl. Like the color of the JVC as well.


----------



## CocaCola15

BobJS said:


> Could you elaborate about what you prefer about the M1+ ?
> 
> Thanks


Sure. I find the sound signature to be more to my liking. They feel more balanced. But my main reason is they are the second iteration of a model I already loved for fit/form and sound. And they are an improvement in my view. Not a sideways upgrade, also includes the app,with EQ. Of course, the fact that I just generally prefer foam tips and click ovee touch also is in play.  The CA oem foamies are fantastic. Love the feel, fit and sound they offer. I have an issue with fit re the MTs, my right ear won’t work with the silicone tip. Weird, yes.

On the other hand, I am not as upset by the 2.1.9 FW as others. I do use EQ to adjust the MT sound, but it’s fine for me.


----------



## jasonb

Im still within their 60 day money back guarantee. I emailed them about this firmware change and may just return them depending on their response. I still just don't think frequency response is something that should be messed with in firmware updates. I've had a good few TWS earbud sets since the OG Galaxy Buds came out, and none have had any perceivable change in frequency response while I've owned them.


----------



## samandhi

jasonb said:


> There should be no ride. You buy an earphone for sound, the frequency response shouldn't change. If they want to add more presets or something like that, that is understandable, but don't go changing the default frequency response. Some may like the change, but you'll also end up with some who wont and will no longer be happy with the product they paid money for. Improving connection stability or improving the ambient sound mode, or fixing bugs is obviously ok, but don't mess with the way they sound.





miserybeforethemusic said:


> Bud, I don't think it's fair of you to dictate what a company can and can't do. If you want to have that sort of decision-making power, it's a lot easier to do at the helm of your own company. If you don't like this as an approach, that's fine, but you're speaking in absolutes and that's incredibly naive. Thanks for your perspective, but I don't appreciate the tone.





jasonb said:


> So you're ok with buying a product, then down the road the company changes the most important aspect of that product so that you no longer like the product you paid for?


I totally understand the point being brought to bear here, but I think what some are missing is that in the beginning (when they very first came out), they are un-listenable. CA has been tweaking a bit every time they update, and for the most part for the better. They just happened to over do it this time. Those that were happy with the 1.4.2 update (is that the right one?), it was changed several times to get there. 

For myself, this is why I do a lot of research before buying, so that I can make an informed decision as to whether the product is worth it or not to me. 

Also, what others may or may not know is that we (Head-Fi'ers) have encouraged CA to make changes from the beginning. They have been very accommodating IMO. Do I like the new sound? Not really, but I will purchase another CA product because of how they interact with John-Q, and the support they have enacted for issues, etc...

Don't get me wrong, had I known they were updating the sound again, I probably would not have updated, and just been happy-go-lucky... But now that I have, I am not angry, nor will kick them out of my rotation; they are just not my fav anymore...  I have heard much more expensive sound MUCH worse. 

Just my 2¢! Peace!


----------



## jsmiller58

Weighing in on CA MT Firmware-gate…. **To me** the sound has definitely changed.  Not sure if I like it more or less, since right now I am just wrapping my head around it being different - grainier treble, more pronounced bass.  Given I was EQing these anyway, what it probably means for me is that I will need to redo my EQ profile.  Definitely not the end of the world.


----------



## jasonb

jsmiller58 said:


> Weighing in on CA MT Firmware-gate…. **To me** the sound has definitely changed.  Not sure if I like it more or less, since right now I am just wrapping my head around it being different - grainier treble, more pronounced bass.  Given I was EQing these anyway, what it probably means for me is that I will need to redo my EQ profile.  Definitely not the end of the world.



Unless the changes can't be fixed with the in app EQ. That's kind of how I feel. I definitely have to bring the bass down even more than I was, but something changed in the mids/treble and I haven't been able to EQ them to sound the same way they did before.


----------



## samandhi

OK! If nobody will make the joke I guess I'll be the one to draw the ire; look at it this way, you don't ever have to buy a new set. Just wait a few weeks, and these will be like all new ones.....     

Too soon???


----------



## jasonb

samandhi said:


> OK! If nobody will make the joke I guess I'll be the one to draw the ire; look at it this way, you don't ever have to buy a new set. Just wait a few weeks, and these will be like all new ones.....
> 
> Too soon???


What do you mean?


----------



## CocaCola15

I used the much more expansive EQ app in Kaiser Audio player for the MTs (non-streaming source, onboard tracks). Found success. Of course, I use/used them mainly at home due to my fit issue with the right side. And For that reason, I sold the MTs today. That and I just prefer the CA M1+, as I noted on a previous post. Plus, the UE Fits are on order. My wife got them and loves them. She was the product tester, haha.


----------



## jsmiller58

jasonb said:


> Unless the changes can't be fixed with the in app EQ. That's kind of how I feel. I definitely have to bring the bass down even more than I was, but something changed in the mids/treble and I haven't been able to EQ them to sound the same way they did before.


True.  I haven’t tried reproducing the original sound…. But, knowing me, I will never find the same sound, yet probably will wind up liking the sound I ultimately arrive at (what I like, or can get used to, is quite broad).  I have a lot of TWS and IEMs, all sounding different, that I enjoy.  But I understand that this is just me and others can and most certainly will feel differently.


----------



## jasonb (Aug 11, 2021)

jsmiller58 said:


> True.  I haven’t tried reproducing the original sound…. But, knowing me, I will never find the same sound, yet probably will wind up liking the sound I ultimately arrive at (what I like, or can get used to, is quite broad).  I have a lot of TWS and IEMs, all sounding different, that I enjoy.  But I understand that this is just me and others can and most certainly will feel differently.



I'm not one of your type that can listen to different tunings and enjoy them all. I want my headphones/earphones to all sound a certain way. I like what most would call a bass light sound that is clean and clear and detailed. You probably have more enjoyment in this hobby than I do because I'm so picky.


----------



## samandhi

jasonb said:


> I'm not one of your type that can listen to different tunings and enjoy them all. I want my headphones/earphones to all sound a certain way. I like what most would call a bass light sound that is clean and clear and detailed. You probably have more enjoyment in this hobby than I do because I'm so picky.


Maybe you should try some great earbuds... I have the Moondrop Chaconne, and they are all those things you described and then some. I would put them up against any $xk priced IEM at this point (other than isolation). Only problem is that they don't have a detachable cable, so you can't run BT adaptors on them. 

Off topic, I know, but I wish I could run these through something like the CF01, or the UTWS3, or the likes.


----------



## Tommy C

miserybeforethemusic said:


> I'm okay with a company that's doing such a thing based on our feedback, yes.



Personally, I think it's great the folks at CA listen to the feedback and make changes.
I didn't know they were making improvements from day one.

I can also see the frustrations from others but I'm assuming they are working on it and a fix/ update will be released.
From the outside looking in, I feel like they are aware and deserve a chance to make things right and go back to the sound signature that was the sweet spot for most and future FW updates will exclude changes to the EQ.


----------



## SynaestheticA

jasonb said:


> Unless the changes can't be fixed with the in app EQ. That's kind of how I feel. I definitely have to bring the bass down even more than I was, but something changed in the mids/treble and I haven't been able to EQ them to sound the same way they did before.


I love a debate.

I feel like the easy and even responsible thing to do would be to have the older updates in a list available for installing and uninstalling. Almost every update of everything leaves at least some people annoyed. Sure in a Tesla maybe that's not a great idea, but what possible problem could be created by giving people the option?

I agree messing with SQ on an update seems silly when the single most important reason for a purchase is the SQ.


----------



## jasonb

SynaestheticA said:


> I love a debate.
> 
> I feel like the easy and even responsible thing to do would be to have the older updates in a list available for installing and uninstalling. Almost every update of everything leaves at least some people annoyed. Sure in a Tesla maybe that's not a great idea, but what possible problem could be created by giving people the option?
> 
> I agree messing with SQ on an update seems silly when the single most important reason for a purchase is the SQ.


Exactly what I've been trying to say. Frequency response is the single most important thing and shouldn't be changed.


----------



## samandhi

SynaestheticA said:


> I love a debate.
> 
> I feel like the easy and even responsible thing to do would be to have the older updates in a list available for installing and uninstalling. Almost every update of everything leaves at least some people annoyed. Sure in a Tesla maybe that's not a great idea, but what possible problem could be created by giving people the option?
> 
> *I agree messing with SQ on an update seems silly when the single most important reason for a purchase is the SQ.*


Except they are better now in the sound department than when they were first released (even with the changes from 2.19). 

As for easy, what you are suggesting is not as feasible as you might hope. In order to have every FR version available for download there would have to be a lot of things in place, not least of which more money than they already spend on fixing code and time. 

First they would have to hire more coders to separate the FW updates that contain the FR change from the FR changes themselves, and turn them into FW updates (people wouldn't be happy with a simple EQ preset, because as it is right now, you can tweak the EQ to sound almost just like the way they sounded before). Then they would have to code some software (or add code to the existing app) to enable manual install of ANY FW update. On top of all this, they would have to spend more money on testing all of this code, and operations. This is all for a $130 device. I think they have done a fine job for the cost. I have had TWS that cost twice as much have 0 after purchase support, except to be able to return them (more times than not at your own expense). 

Oh! And let's not forget that they would have to rework their warranty, because if you are allowed to have whatever FW version you want, then anything can go wrong. This will cause more warranty returns, and people angry because something went wrong demanding they get a new pair. And they will be losing more money from sending new pairs out, not to mention the surplus of used (but perfectly serviceable) buds.

I get it that people spend their hard earned money and expect something for that money, but when people start saying how easy it would be to just do this, or just do that, I don't agree. This market is so flooded right now that if you lose your spot, your done. I wonder why people aren't more angry about these other companies that never listen to feedback, or pretend to and do nothing?! 

This is NOT a tragedy, and CA will either change it... or not. If they don't I am sorry that you are disappointed, but just sell them, and move on to one of those brands that charge more, and don't fix any bug they are released with. Otherwise please try and be patient. So far, CA has always made things right (or at the very least tried really hard to)?!


----------



## CJYYZ

SynaestheticA said:


> I love a debate.
> 
> I feel like the easy and even responsible thing to do would be to have the older updates in a list available for installing and uninstalling. Almost every update of everything leaves at least some people annoyed. Sure in a Tesla maybe that's not a great idea, but what possible problem could be created by giving people the option?
> 
> I agree messing with SQ on an update seems silly when the single most important reason for a purchase is the SQ.


Yes! A list of older FW versions would be great. I think I read that when doing a FW update, the current FW is erased first. If so, I assume there should be no version to version incompatibility.


----------



## SynaestheticA

samandhi said:


> As for easy, what you are suggesting is not as feasible as you might hope. In order to have every FR version available for download there would have to be a lot of things in place, not least of which more money than they already spend on fixing code and time.
> 
> First they would have to hire more coders to separate the FW updates that contain the FR change from the FR changes themselves, and turn them into FW updates (people wouldn't be happy with a simple EQ preset, because as it is right now, you can tweak the EQ to sound almost just like the way they sounded before). Then they would have to code some software (or add code to the existing app) to enable manual install of ANY FW update. On top of all this, they would have to spend more money on testing all of this code, and operations. This is all for a $130 device. I think they have done a fine job for the cost. I have had TWS that cost twice as much have 0 after purchase support, except to be able to return them (more times than not at your own expense).


 Ah yea forget about it. I don't understand firmware and just assumed an update could be uninstalled as easily as it is installed. But I don't get why they would need to spend money on testing the code when they already know that it works? (Feel free to ignore this if you don't want to explain coding tests to me).

For warranty, a disclaimer on voiding that warranty would be appropriate. 

As far as them listening to customers. Yes that is very good.

As far as my own satisfaction. I don't have a dynamic-driver in this race, just have a long-standing thought that updates should be able to be removed. Think of all of the Apple devices that have been irresponsibly updated out of existence. BUT now that you're talking about coding, that certainly doesn't sound as easy as it is to type out.


----------



## samandhi (Aug 11, 2021)

SynaestheticA said:


> Ah yea forget about it. I don't understand firmware and just assumed an update could be uninstalled as easily as it is installed. But I don't get why they would need to spend money on testing the code when they already know that it works? (Feel free to ignore this if you don't want to explain coding tests to me).


Because if they have to separate parts of the FW (you wouldn't want to downgrade back to the bugs they have already fixed) to just offer the FR part they changed, and create a new FW packages to download they would need to test this, or they might introduce more bugs in the end.


SynaestheticA said:


> For warranty, a disclaimer on voiding that warranty would be appropriate.


For legal reasons, I agree with you, but for reputation reasons this would sting. You and I both know that there will be people that botch this up, then complain on some forum of how much they suck, and demand their money back all because CA can't get their stuff together, thus causing other people to have the "mob mentality" and/or not buy them, etc... Just one scenario I can see (which in the flooded market, reputation is pretty helpful to have). Not to mention there will be a lot of people that think warranty disclaimers are an admission of issues, and will blame CA anyhow when something goes wrong. Kinda' like the person that sees the no swimming sign, gets hurt, sues whoever....


SynaestheticA said:


> As far as my own satisfaction. I don't have a dynamic-driver in this race, just have a long-standing thought that updates should be able to be removed. Think of all of the Apple devices that have been irresponsibly updated out of existence. BUT now that you're talking about coding, that certainly doesn't sound as easy as it is to type out.


I don't disagree with you on that, but the difference here is that customers have actually asked (mostly) for the changes. If you read (waaaaaaay) back on this thread you can see some interaction, at least via email saying they are reading our posts and taking things into consideration, and people making suggestions to the FR tuning. This bud has been a journey, and there have been a lot of people that have jumped ship, that re-purchased them. As for myself, I have been patient, and it has paid off thus far.

No company is perfect, and we all know CA is no exception. It is how they deal with it afterwards, and for myself, I find the type of support they offer to be very good. Most companies, after the first or second round of bugs/issues, would write them off, repackage the item (with the fixes), hike up the price, and label it as xxTWS gen 2.

Edit: BTW! These are my views. I know people will disagree with me, and that is ok too. Just putting my thoughts out there. Cheers!


----------



## SemiAudiophile (Aug 11, 2021)

I think there should be at least a disclaimer in the firmware update that states exactly what has changed. Especially if it relates to freq response. At least give the user the option to update or not. (Maybe it did and I missed that?)

This is why I'm not to keen on firmware updates. I don't do them unless I absolutely have to.

Edit: maybe it was in my head but I recall the same thing with the CX400BT. I thought it sounded better out of the box, but once I applied the firmware update. It didn't sound quite as good. Nothing was mentioned about changes to the sound in the update either. So who knows, maybe it's just my head playing tricks on me. 🤷🏻‍♂️


----------



## samandhi

SemiAudiophile said:


> I think there should be at least a disclaimer in the firmware update that states exactly what has changed. Especially if it relates to freq response. At least give the user the option to update or not. (Maybe it did and I missed that?)
> 
> This is why I'm not to keen on firmware updates. I don't do them unless I absolutely have to.


+1 on that one! And, nope you didn't miss it (unless I did also). I have actually never seen any information about changing the sound on a FW update.


----------



## jsmiller58

SemiAudiophile said:


> I think there should be at least a disclaimer in the firmware update that states exactly what has changed. Especially if it relates to freq response. At least give the user the option to update or not. (Maybe it did and I missed that?)
> 
> This is why I'm not to keen on firmware updates. I don't do them unless I absolutely have to.
> 
> Edit: maybe it was in my head but I recall the same thing with the CX400BT. I thought it sounded better out of the box, but once I applied the firmware update. It didn't sound quite as good. Nothing was mentioned about changes to the sound in the update either. So who knows, maybe it's just my head playing tricks on me. 🤷🏻‍♂️


So, here’s the thing…. It is one thing for someone to forego one update…. But what about the accumulated bug fixes and feature adds have gone on for another 5 FW upgrades?  There will be a lot of complaining about unresolved bugs or missing features that people who opted to skip updates in the past are experiencing.  This is a no-win scenario, I think. 

In my opinion, I support the right to make an informed decision - CA should have stated the FR was being tuned.  But I also think the situation eventually would become intolerable if there is a critical bug fix and those who stopped the upgrade train in the past will not be able to benefit.


----------



## jsmiller58

jasonb said:


> I'm not one of your type that can listen to different tunings and enjoy them all. I want my headphones/earphones to all sound a certain way. I like what most would call a bass light sound that is clean and clear and detailed. You probably have more enjoyment in this hobby than I do because I'm so picky.


Hey, you like what you like, and should only be satisfied when you have it!


----------



## assassin10000

jasonb said:


> I'm not one of your type that can listen to different tunings and enjoy them all. I want my headphones/earphones to all sound a certain way. I like what most would call a bass light sound that is clean and clear and detailed. You probably have more enjoyment in this hobby than I do because I'm so picky.


Me too. DF tuning is very similar to what I find ideal personally (maybe a little less upper mid/lower treble, I think I prefer around 8-10db gain in that area).


samandhi said:


> Maybe you should try some great earbuds... I have the Moondrop Chaconne, and they are all those things you described and then some. I would put them up against any $xk priced IEM at this point (other than isolation). Only problem is that they don't have a detachable cable, so you can't run BT adaptors on them.
> 
> Off topic, I know, but I wish I could run these through something like the CF01, or the UTWS3, or the likes.


I wish the totl earbuds like K's, moondrop, etc had MMCX connectors. I'd love to be able to use them with TWS adapters.


jasonb said:


> Exactly what I've been trying to say. Frequency response is the single most important thing and shouldn't be changed.


Or at least should be available as an EQ preset.


----------



## Juturna (Aug 12, 2021)

I need to kinda retract my complete panning of the Sennheiser Momentum TW2's. Got mine back after the left earbud was basically DOA when I bought them (it worked for an hour, then died).  In the meantime I purchased the XM4's and have been enjoying them a lot.

But now when I got the Sennheiser MTW2 back I need to say that they seem to have a bit more clarity than the XM4's, but this is obviously just comparing the Sony with the stock foam tips vs some silicone tips on the MTW2's, so not completely fair.
I still think that the sound is a bit weird in places, no matter what I do I can't get drums to sound good, especially snares and cymbals but also kick drums can sound a bit weak and flat, almost compressed-sounding, there's just something in those frequencies that doesn't seem to be budged by the app EQ. I also think the treble can get a bit too harsh and sibilant on vocals on some tracks, but with a good fit these absolutely has clarity, decently fast bass response without bloat, and can deliver very clear vocals.

Somehow it seems like it's very close to the type of sound I want, but that little part that's NOT my type changes the sound signature to the point where I don't really love the "overall" sound. It's very good though, and I understand why people would like it. If I used Android and could EQ them with wavelet, perhaps I would be able to reach exactly what I wanted, not sure how they respond to EQ-ing outside of the app.

What I will criticize is that MTW2 has the shittiest included tips that i've tried, because they're just so goddamn small. The largest tips are a no-go on my right ear, so had to dig out some other tips that I had.

I think i'll still put them up for sale despite this because now I have the XM4's that I feel are just a more complete package and more practical, and honestly feels a bit better in my ears despite them being pretty chunky.


----------



## Devodonaldson

Caipirina said:


> Some more observations on the XM4 ... now 12h later and well, not that much play time yet .. but some interesting findings
> a) red flashing charging case! Quick google later reveals this is when it gets too hot'n steamy on the charging pad! Can't say I have read that before. Apparently to protect the battery.
> b) I had changed to spinfits and thought about trying for a short run, but with those tips the fit felt less secure and I was not in the mood to change back to memory foam tips .. so, no run test today
> c) While they don't have multipoint, the way I can change between devices is super easy (barely an inconvenience) .. just hold both buds a few seconds, they are in pairing mode and on my Redmi even a window pops up ... no need to look for the phone that was last connected and make it 'forget' those buds.
> ...


Are you using them with ANC or Ambient mode on, or have those modes off? The bass response if very different if you aren't using either one of those. Deeper stronger,  but still clean if you have ANC or ambient mode on. Lacking with them off, for me personally


----------



## Juturna

Devodonaldson said:


> Are you using them with ANC or Ambient mode on, or have those modes off? The bass response if very different if you aren't using either one of those. Deeper stronger,  but still clean if you have ANC or ambient mode on. Lacking with them off, for me personally


I for one still think it's hard to get the bass to sound especially impressive to me. It's still too much mid-bass and not enough upper bass and possibly sub-bass to my ears and could really be a lot tighter and faster. I know changing eartips could probably improve on that but i've so far had mixed success with that, but I haven't bought any of the more well-renowned tips like Spinfit 360s, Azla Crystal/XELASTEC or anything like that. But I feel like the earbuds should be judged first on how they sound with the included tips.

With the Large stock tips I find that the bass in some tracks just end up sounding very low in details. So if it's a bass synth in a drum&bass-track like Netsky - I See The Future In Your Eyes, the reese bass or whatever it is lacks BITE and a bit of definition. I hear it rumbling, but I don't hear what the actual bass synth sounds like.
It still sounds good, but it also feels like it doesn't sounds super accurate. But I can imagine the foam tips really don't help here either, and I feel like listening to tracks with a bass guitar also means that there's not enough definition to it, I feel like the tonality of the bass strings don't shine through as much as I would want. 
With more heavy 808's in Trap and hip-hop I feel like it works but I could do with even more sub bass rumble. 

I mean, I do really like the sound on the XM4's, but i'm not exactly impressed with the bass specifically, I feel like if I EQ the bass it's always just a bit too little or a bit too much with a bit of bloating to my ears. I've seen people say that they have NO bass though, and those people are probably just wearing way too small eartips. Some people really are just "i've always been a small eartip guy" and don't change even though eartips are different between different earbuds. 

Just as an experiment I changed to the medium foam tips and the bass really changes character, it honestly sounds... a bit better, but the rest of the sound suffers. 
The large tips are perfect for isolation and they fit my ears much better than the mediums because I don't get much in the way of a seal with the mediums. But I think a tip in between Medium and Large would probably be ideal for me. I might order some Azla or Spinfits soon enough though.


----------



## gwompki

jasonb said:


> I'm not one of your type that can listen to different tunings and enjoy them all. I want my headphones/earphones to all sound a certain way. I like what most would call a bass light sound that is clean and clear and detailed. You probably have more enjoyment in this hobby than I do because I'm so picky.


I would recommend giving the Moondrop Sparks a whirl.  They fit weird due to the longish nozzle but I find them  super comfortable regardless since they don't make contact with normal hotspot areas. No app support at this time but one is supposedly coming.  They can be purchased from Amazon so the risk is low if you don't like them.  I find them to be a great complement to the Melomania Touch.


----------



## jasonb

gwompki said:


> I would recommend giving the Moondrop Sparks a whirl.  They fit weird due to the longish nozzle but I find them  super comfortable regardless since they don't make contact with normal hotspot areas. No app support at this time but one is supposedly coming.  They can be purchased from Amazon so the risk is low if you don't like them.  I find them to be a great complement to the Melomania Touch.


I'm just going to stick with the WF1000XM4's for a while.


----------



## BooleanBones

jasonb said:


> I'm just going to stick with the WF1000XM4's for a while.


Loving the XM4s as well. Not sure if you follow the thread or not, but based on your frustration with the CA firmware changing the sound, it looks like Sony has pushed out similar sound tweaks in firmware updates. Albeit, their updates have gotten positive responses so far. Just an FYI.

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/sony-wf-1000xm4-impressions-thread.958184/


----------



## jasonb

BooleanBones said:


> Loving the XM4s as well. Not sure if you follow the thread or not, but based on your frustration with the CA firmware changing the sound, it looks like Sony has pushed out similar sound tweaks in firmware updates. Albeit, their updates have gotten positive responses so far. Just an FYI.
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/sony-wf-1000xm4-impressions-thread.958184/



I read that right around the time I got mine they supposedly made them a hair brighter. I heard no difference when I updated, and I've seen measurements that back up that there was no actual change in frequency response. I've read every page in that thread. I literally have zero complaints about how the WF1000XM4's sound with just a simple eartip swap, with LDAC and no EQ at all. My ears are still getting used to the fit and shape of them though, but I'll manage. 

This part circled is causing a bit of uncomfortableness, but I'll get used to it. It's already gotten better.


----------



## gwompki

jasonb said:


> I'm just going to stick with the WF1000XM4's for a while.


I hear ya! I personally couldn't stand the sound sig of XM3 or XM4, but LOVED the rest of the features.  I've actually considered buying a set of XM3 refurbs now that they are so cheap just because of how good the ANC, comfort, app support, etc was.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

jasonb said:


> I read that right around the time I got mine they supposedly made them a hair brighter. I heard no difference when I updated, and I've seen measurements that back up that there was no actual change in frequency response. I've read every page in that thread. I literally have zero complaints about how the WF1000XM4's sound with just a simple eartip swap, with LDAC and no EQ at all. My ears are still getting used to the fit and shape of them though, but I'll manage.
> 
> This part circled is causing a bit of uncomfortableness, but I'll get used to it. It's already gotten better.


Thought you didn't like when companies change tonality without notice, though, or is it just Sony that gets a free pass?


----------



## BooleanBones

jasonb said:


> I read that right around the time I got mine they supposedly made them a hair brighter. I heard no difference when I updated, and I've seen measurements that back up that there was no actual change in frequency response. I've read every page in that thread. I literally have zero complaints about how the WF1000XM4's sound with just a simple eartip swap, with LDAC and no EQ at all. My ears are still getting used to the fit and shape of them though, but I'll manage.
> 
> This part circled is causing a bit of uncomfortableness, but I'll get used to it. It's already gotten better.


Great to hear on all fronts. Mine fortunately have fit well with ears. That would be bothersome with the bump you have circled.


----------



## jasonb (Aug 12, 2021)

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Thought you didn't like when companies change tonality without notice, though, or is it just Sony that gets a free pass?


I literally heard no difference from the one update I've gotten on mine so far. I guess you didn't really read my post. I heard no difference and there have been measurements to back up that there was no change.



Now if someone wants to prove that Cambridge Audio didn't change the sound with a graph I'll admit defeat and stand corrected.


----------



## DRuM

One month in and the left bud died on my Creative OutlierAir v2.  

It won't charge, there's no flashing lights, nothing. So I returned them today for a refund. I must say, while they worked, whenever I connected them, the voice in the right bud would say 'pairing successful' followed by the voice in the left bud saying 'pairing failed'. I never understood this, yet they always worked fine even though it said failed. I'm wondering if it was a faulty left bud from the very start and now it's died. Or maybe the bud still works and perhaps there's a fault with the charging pins in the case. 

Hmm, thing is. I really like them and not sure I'd find the same sound and the extra long battery life for this price with another brand. Does anyone think I'd be mad to rebuy them and maybe I'll get lucky with a second pair? As it happens, the price on Amazon has now come down £6 which would be a bonus.


----------



## jant71 (Aug 12, 2021)

DRuM said:


> One month in and the left bud died on my Creative OutlierAir v2.
> 
> It won't charge, there's no flashing lights, nothing. So I returned them today for a refund. I must say, while they worked, whenever I connected them, the voice in the right bud would say 'pairing successful' followed by the voice in the left bud saying 'pairing failed'. I never understood this, yet they always worked fine even though it said failed. I'm wondering if it was a faulty left bud from the very start and now it's died. Or maybe the bud still works and perhaps there's a fault with the charging pins in the case.
> 
> Hmm, thing is. I really like them and not sure I'd find the same sound and the extra long battery life for this price with another brand. Does anyone think I'd be mad to rebuy them and maybe I'll get lucky with a second pair? As it happens, the price on Amazon has now come down £6 which would be a bonus.



There is the V3 now with a bio-cellulose driver and new features but they did drop aptX.


----------



## C_Lindbergh (Aug 12, 2021)

Galaxy buds 2 for only 110 EUR from Amazon Italy! Slightly longer delivery time tho compared to other retailers. 

But an amazing price for a new pair of tws! I'm seriously considering Buds 2 + Galaxy Watch 4 LTE for music streaming without needing to bring my phone.

https://www.amazon.it/dp/B0999CD1HL/?tag=oid05-21

Discount code: BUDS50

Not sure if Samsung on Amazon.it ships to whole EU but worked for me located in Sweden.


----------



## DRuM

jant71 said:


> There is the V3 now with a bio-cellulose driver and new features but they did drop aptX.




Oh thanks, I didn't know about these. I'm not sure if I need or would miss aptx or not.  I'm out at the moment but will watch that video you linked later.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

DRuM said:


> Oh thanks, I didn't know about these. I'm not sure if I need or would miss aptx or not.  I'm out at the moment but will watch that video you linked later.


If your AAC implementation is good enough or you usually don't listen to hi-res stuff, doubt you'll really notice a difference. Those look pretty darn nice for the price. Maybe karma handed you an upgrade path


----------



## DRuM (Aug 12, 2021)

miserybeforethemusic said:


> If your AAC implementation is good enough or you usually don't listen to hi-res stuff, doubt you'll really notice a difference. Those look pretty darn nice for the price. Maybe karma handed you an upgrade path


Well with my Mpow M30 buds, I don't think they have aptx, just SBC and to be honest, audio sync is better with the Mpow than the Creative.  I think you're right about karma, I just went ahead and bought the latest v3. 

£54.99 direct from Creative.com as a promotional offer so £10 less than their RRP, and free delivery! I was expecting them to be much more expensive considering I bought the v2 for £69.  It's a pre-order so they don't ship until 24th September with estimated delivery 28th September - 1st October.  That's so long to wait, lol!

The design of the shells have been made flatter and will sit more flush in the ears so that's good. The silicone tips appear to be a more standardised round shape than the v2, I just hope that doesn't change the punch of the bass.  They've added more overall battery life but a single charge is 2 hours less at 10 hours (that's with no ambient mode or ANR) instead of 12. I never tested how long the v2 actually lasted on a single charge and never used them for anywhere near that long in a single sitting, but if these keep going for 9 or 10 hours that'll be plenty.

I'll be interested to hear how bio cellulose drivers differ in sound signature from the graphene drivers.  Probably a silly question, but I use TWS with my TV every day as well as with my phone, so I guess I won't be able to make any use of EQ from the Creative or SXFI app when paired with the tv, and it will be just the default buds sound, right?

Anyway, excited to get them now.


----------



## erockg

jant71 said:


> There is the V3 now with a bio-cellulose driver and new features but they did drop aptX.



Bio-cellulose.  That is all.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

erockg said:


> Bio-cellulose.  That is all.


Is this the new buzzword? I barely got used to LCP...these things change too quickly.

I tease, I tease. Curious, though, about the tuning. I do have Creative's Pebble v2 desktop speakers (last gen before they went USB-C in) and they're a real treat to use while working. They're pretty good near-field speakers, especially if you're only using a laptop as is. But I digress...

Still thoroughly enjoying the Melomania Touch; I do recommend folks clear their app cache (if they can) and try the EQ trick I suggested. My ears are happy with them; at this point, I'm so shell-shocked from the round of debates that I probably forgot what the original tuning was, anyway.


----------



## jsmiller58

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Is this the new buzzword? I barely got used to LCP...these things change too quickly.
> 
> I tease, I tease. Curious, though, about the tuning. I do have Creative's Pebble v2 desktop speakers (last gen before they went USB-C in) and they're a real treat to use while working. They're pretty good near-field speakers, especially if you're only using a laptop as is. But I digress...
> 
> Still thoroughly enjoying the Melomania Touch; I do recommend folks clear their app cache (if they can) and try the EQ trick I suggested. My ears are happy with them; at this point, I'm so shell-shocked from the round of debates that I probably forgot what the original tuning was, anyway.


On Android, how do we clear the app cache?  Thanks in advance!


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

jsmiller58 said:


> On Android, how do we clear the app cache?  Thanks in advance!


It varies from skin to skin, but the general idea will be in the spoiler below:



Spoiler: How to Clear App Cache in Android


----------



## jant71 (Aug 12, 2021)

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Is this the new buzzword? I barely got used to LCP...these things change too quickly.
> 
> I tease, I tease. Curious, though, about the tuning. I do have Creative's Pebble v2 desktop speakers (last gen before they went USB-C in) and they're a real treat to use while working. They're pretty good near-field speakers, especially if you're only using a laptop as is. But I digress...
> 
> Still thoroughly enjoying the Melomania Touch; I do recommend folks clear their app cache (if they can) and try the EQ trick I suggested. My ears are happy with them; at this point, I'm so shell-shocked from the round of debates that I probably forgot what the original tuning was, anyway.





erockg said:


> Bio-cellulose.  That is all.



Well, for Creative their two most well regarded products ever had Fosters/Fostex bio-cell drivers so it means something to them and Creative fans. Not that this one is either made by a quality Japanese driver OEM or that good. But many might say they hope the change from the graphene to bio-cellulose will be where they put the money and not into the aptX codec. It is a little bigger 5.6mm to 6mm for the new driver.

Not sure what is meant by "that is all"? Seems like they have an app now, Qi, ambient, ANC, a second pair of mics which the comparison chart shows the V1, V2, and Gold didn't have.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

jant71 said:


> Well, for Creative there two most well regarded products ever had Fosters/Fostex bio-cell drivers so it means something to them and Creative fans. Not that this one is either made by a quality Japanese driver OEM or that good. But many might say they hope the change from the graphene to bio-cellulose will be where they put the money and not into the aptX codec. It is a little bigger 5.6mm to 6mm for the new driver.


Of course, and apologies if that sounded like a knock against Creative; they've been around for a very long time and do tuning, well, _creatively _(couldn't resist). I don't doubt they sound very impressive for their respective price and it should be a nice, agreeable, consumer-focused tune.


----------



## TK33

jsmiller58 said:


> On Android, how do we clear the app cache?  Thanks in advance!


I usually long press the app --> App Info --> Storage & cache --> Clear Cache

Can also get there from Settings --> Apps & Notifications --> See all [X] apps --> [app name] --> Storage & cache --> Clear Cache

i am on Android 11 but should be similar if you are on a different version.


----------



## webvan

So I received the Galaxy Buds Live and I'm not too impressed...well they're ok but the SQ isn't as good as the X12s TBH, a bit "murky", the fit is good (using the small "tabs" as the large ones give me a sound imbalance). The ANC does work...a bit. But I was mostly getting them hoping that there would be less wind noise when bike riding than with the X12s and it's not the case. Makes sense since the air they let through to let you stay aware of your surroundings will "accelerate" when riding and become annoying. They're going back.


----------



## jant71

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Of course, and apologies if that sounded like a knock against Creative; they've been around for a very long time and do tuning, well, _creatively _(couldn't resist). I don't doubt they sound very impressive for their respective price and it should be a nice, agreeable, consumer-focused tune.


It really mostly matters to DRuM in the end if that is the choice and maybe we will hear how they turned out. I have not been to keen on Creative in recent times but I did recently buy the Jam V2 and they did a solid job on it and gave a nice faeture set for the price.


----------



## erockg (Aug 13, 2021)

jant71 said:


> Well, for Creative their two most well regarded products ever had Fosters/Fostex bio-cell drivers so it means something to them and Creative fans. Not that this one is either made by a quality Japanese driver OEM or that good. But many might say they hope the change from the graphene to bio-cellulose will be where they put the money and not into the aptX codec. It is a little bigger 5.6mm to 6mm for the new driver.
> 
> Not sure what is meant by "that is all"? Seems like they have an app now, Qi, ambient, ANC, a second pair of mics which the comparison chart shows the V1, V2, and Gold didn't have.


It was just a dumb joke.  Every company has their tech buzz words.  I found it to be amusing.  Bio-Cellulose essentially means "fat."  I had the first gen of Creative's TWS.  They were good.  Battery was excellent.  Fit was spot on and very much like the Bragi Dash (which I truly loved).  Although, I didn't think the build quality was great on the V1.  But that's just me.  Curious to see what V3 brings.  Creative bought Cambridge Soundworks years ago.  CS was started by Henry Kloss.  GREAT company out of Massachusetts.  I was obsessed with their surround sound systems.  Incredible quality.  Random thoughts...


----------



## TK33

webvan said:


> So I received the Galaxy Buds Live and I'm not too impressed...well they're ok but the SQ isn't as good as the X12s TBH, a bit "murky", the fit is good (using the small "tabs" as the large ones give me a sound imbalance). The ANC does work...a bit. But I was mostly getting them hoping that there would be less wind noise when bike riding than with the X12s and it's not the case. Makes sense since the air they let through to let you stay aware of your surroundings will "accelerate" when riding and become annoying. They're going back.


I mostly use the Galaxy Buds Live for calls (almost exclusively actually) and they have been fantastic for that.  I just use one ear when riding my bike since it does let in wind noise and I like to be aware of everything around me. They are there more for making sure I dont miss calls and having some background music on.  Definitely not something I got for ANC or listening to music (have others for that) but at current sale prices, I keep getting tempted to pick up a second set.  I probably had 7 hours of calls today (Zoom and phone) and they are great for that.


----------



## jant71

No emojis but I wasn't thinking anything negative at all by either post I quoted. Though I wasn't if you were talking about the driver or the earphones there.


----------



## jsmiller58

miserybeforethemusic said:


> It varies from skin to skin, but the general idea will be in the spoiler below:
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: How to Clear App Cache in Android


Thanks!


----------



## jsmiller58 (Aug 12, 2021)

TK33 said:


> I usually long press the app --> App Info --> Storage & cache --> Clear Cache
> 
> Can also get there from Settings --> Apps & Notifications --> See all [X] apps --> [app name] --> Storage & cache --> Clear Cache
> 
> i am on Android 11 but should be similar if you are on a different version.


Yup!  I just searched for the app in settings and then cleared the cache.  The long press method was even easier


----------



## DRuM

jant71 said:


> It really mostly matters to DRuM in the end if that is the choice and maybe we will hear how they turned out. I have not been to keen on Creative in recent times but I did recently buy the Jam V2 and they did a solid job on it and gave a nice faeture set for the price.


Oh definitely I'll report back about them in around 6 weeks when they're shipped.


----------



## PixelSquish (Aug 13, 2021)

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Bud, I don't think it's fair of you to dictate what a company can and can't do. If you want to have that sort of decision-making power, it's a lot easier to do at the helm of your own company. If you don't like this as an approach, that's fine, but you're speaking in absolutes and that's incredibly naive. Thanks for your perspective, but I don't appreciate the tone.


Except he's right and you're wrong.

Sennheiser changed the sound of the MTW2 with firmware but made it a setting you could toggle on and off so it was an option. This is the way.

Imagine buying, keeping and having the MT for the SQ and the company goes and changes it significantly after your return period or perhaps even when the warranty period is over. That's just bad. 

Is it their right to run the company like that? Sure. It's also a poor way to run a business. And there is nothing wrong with calling that out either.


----------



## Caipirina

Devodonaldson said:


> Are you using them with ANC or Ambient mode on, or have those modes off? The bass response if very different if you aren't using either one of those. Deeper stronger,  but still clean if you have ANC or ambient mode on. Lacking with them off, for me personally


Anc is pretty much always on. And I like the bass boost we setting  this bass is really smooth even in turbo mode.
Have not dared go running with them yet. Concerned about fit and sweat.


----------



## gwompki (Aug 13, 2021)

Apologies in advance if all of what I am about to say has already been covered.  I struggle to keep up with this thread   

I have been enjoying the MT the most with the new "Immersive" preset.  I guess that is because they have essentially just relabeled the previous "Balanced" preset with "immersive" based on the 2.1.9 release notes:

EQ preset previously named Balanced has been renamed Immersive, the EQ remains unchanged and is the default after a firmware update
It does seem to accentuate the upper mids a bit more than Balanced mode on pre 2.1.7 but like @miserybeforethemusic I've also been battling a cold/sinus thing so I don't fully trust my ears right now. 

One thing I notice that is VERY interesting is that if you make a custom EQ setting that is identical to the immersive preset the sound is extremely different.  The upper mids are way more sucked out than on the immersive preset.  However, if you make a change to the immersive preset and then change it back to it's default setting and save it as one of your custom pre-sets it sounds identical to the immersive preset.  I took the immersive preset and lowered the  band between mid/high down to zero and saved that as a preset.  That preserves the sound of the immersive, but if I have a track that is a little shouty I can bump it down just a bit.  Interesting to play around with to say the least and goes to show there is more than just the 5 band EQ visible to the user that is happening with the presets.

I'd encourage everyone to try the immersive preset and see what you think.  Like I said, I'm very much enjoying it and take this with a grain of salt due to my sinus issues, but I think I like it more than than pre 2.1.7 with Balanced preset.


----------



## webvan

TK33 said:


> I mostly use the Galaxy Buds Live for calls (almost exclusively actually) and they have been fantastic for that.  I just use one ear when riding my bike since it does let in wind noise and I like to be aware of everything around me. They are there more for making sure I dont miss calls and having some background music on.  Definitely not something I got for ANC or listening to music (have others for that) but at current sale prices, I keep getting tempted to pick up a second set.  I probably had 7 hours of calls today (Zoom and phone) and they are great for that.


True, I forgot to mention that but they sounded great (and I suppose I sounded ok since I had no comments) when I used them for a call yesterday. I'll keep on using them a bit before I decide to keep them or not. I definitely need to do a run with them as they do seem to be more comfortable than the X12s that I've found a bit fiddly/unsecure since I stopped using foam covers (they stayed wet and corroded the charging contacts on the case !).


----------



## Kathiravan JLR

Hello Guys,
Is there a real difference between the LDAC and the AAC codec? In my testing i cant find a big difference and literally i don't even find a single difference! Whats your view on this guys?


----------



## samandhi

Kathiravan JLR said:


> Hello Guys,
> Is there a real difference between the LDAC and the AAC codec? In my testing i cant find a big difference and literally i don't even find a single difference! Whats your view on this guys?


Technically there is a difference. As for real world, it depends on some things. Your ears are the most important. Some people can't hear a difference between a 320 mp3 file and redbook (16/44) or even better. It also depends on the device. It may be tuned in such a way that you would never hear the difference. 

If you have a really revealing set of headphones, and some really good gear (for instance), you are more likely to hear the difference in the quality of a file than if you are trying to tell with, say, skullcandy IEMs. Obviously this is pretty extreme, but you get the point. 

But on paper, the difference is very real. It also depends on the implementation of those codecs as to how well they "fool" your ears into thinking that all the information is still there. Either way, both codecs are lossy, so some data gets tossed out. Hope that helps a little anyhow?!


----------



## MichaelScarn

I


MichaelScarn said:


> Anybody got any experience with the Status customer service? Send them three e-mails over the last weeks, but no response. Big difference with the helpdesk from Cambridge Audio, which is excellent.


Four attempts already, including one over Facebook. Zero response. Very disappointing. Don't get me wrong: these Between Pro's sound amazing, but had I known this I would have gone with some other brand.


----------



## SemiAudiophile

Melomania 1+ is $99 on Amazon right now hmmm 🤔.....I guess I'll bite?


----------



## CocaCola15 (Aug 13, 2021)

SemiAudiophile said:


> Melomania 1+ is $99 on Amazon right now hmmm 🤔.....I guess I'll bite?


I just saw that. I am already a big fan of this model (after owning the original M1s). I am almost tempted to buy a backup pair, but I don't really need it! Plus, I have the UE Fits on order. This is a disease, no other way to assess it. Anyway, I find the M1+ to be a great match for my needs. I like the click function (as opposed to the touch) and they fit perfectly with the small or medium foam tips (CA only offers two sizes of OEM foams, oddly). I don't use the silicone tips, never have. If you get them, you always have the 30-day return factor with Amazon. I purchased 10 pair of foam tips from CA (via Amazon) and honestly, with a bit of hydrogen peroxide and some water, they clean up to like new. So I overbought.

But at $99, I think the M1+ is a steal. I mean, if you can get them to fit properly. They do come with some foam tips in both sizes. The original M1 only came in small, I believe.


----------



## CocaCola15

MichaelScarn said:


> I
> 
> Four attempts already, including one over Facebook. Zero response. Very disappointing. Don't get me wrong: these Between Pro's sound amazing, but had I known this I would have gone with some other brand.


Sad to hear that. I have the Between Pro and like them too, no hiccups so far. But no response from them? Not good. I paid $75 on the first wave so not a major issue should they malfunction, but even so ...


----------



## scubaphish

CocaCola15 said:


> I just saw that. I am already a big fan of this model (after owning the original M1s). I am almost tempted to buy a backup pair, but I don't really need it! Plus, I have the UE Fits on order. This is a disease, no other way to assess it. Anyway, I find the M1+ to be a great match for my needs. I like the click function (as opposed to the touch) and they fit perfectly with the small or medium foam tips (CA only offers two sizes of OEM foams, oddly). I don't use the silicone tips, never have. If you get them, you always have the 30-day return factor with Amazon. I purchased 10 pair of foam tips from CA (via Amazon) and honestly, with a bit of hydrogen peroxide and some water, they clean up to like new. So I overbought.


I’m so jealous that you got them to fit so well. I tried and just couldn’t get them to work. What I heard sounded really nice, though.


----------



## bhima

Anyone having issues getting an android phone to get proper volume out of bluetooth headphones? For awhile things were fine and the volume was more than sufficient. Lately though, with the volume maxxed on the phone AND the apps its very hard to hear.


----------



## SemiAudiophile

CocaCola15 said:


> I just saw that. I am already a big fan of this model (after owning the original M1s). I am almost tempted to buy a backup pair, but I don't really need it! Plus, I have the UE Fits on order. This is a disease, no other way to assess it. Anyway, I find the M1+ to be a great match for my needs. I like the click function (as opposed to the touch) and they fit perfectly with the small or medium foam tips (CA only offers two sizes of OEM foams, oddly). I don't use the silicone tips, never have. If you get them, you always have the 30-day return factor with Amazon. I purchased 10 pair of foam tips from CA (via Amazon) and honestly, with a bit of hydrogen peroxide and some water, they clean up to like new. So I overbought.


Yea I bit. I was contemplating on waiting til Black Friday but at $99 is still a great price 👍 Yup and I can always return them with Amazon's 30-day policy.


----------



## Tommy C

SemiAudiophile said:


> Melomania 1+ is $99 on Amazon right now hmmm 🤔.....I guess I'll bite?



Possible v3 is coming down the pipe?
Last time the M1 were discounted was just before the M1+ made their debut on Amazon.


----------



## vsg28

Tommy C said:


> Possible v3 is coming down the pipe?
> Last time the M1 were discounted was just before the M1+ made their debut on Amazon.


Price cut globally as of last night, good timing too since I had just complained to them about the competitiveness, or lack thereof.




 





Also just finished testing the new Cleer Roam NC, Qualcomm QCC3046 (BT 5.2, ANC, ambient mode) for $60:


----------



## Tommy C

vsg28 said:


> Price cut globally as of last night, good timing too since I had just complained to them about the competitiveness, or lack thereof.
> 
> 
> 
> Also just finished testing the new Cleer Roam NC, Qualcomm QCC3046 (BT 5.2, ANC, ambient mode) for $60:



Still full MSRP on their website and Amazon Canada... 
How's the Cleer Roam?


----------



## vsg28

Tommy C said:


> Still full MSRP on their website and Amazon Canada...
> How's the Cleer Roam?


Will happen later today, I had the same question and was told the Americas teams are just getting to work now etc.

Cleer Roam is okay, only reason to consider it is the $60. App is better on iOS than Android, ANC has real bad pressure differential. Ambient mode works well, touch controls are trigger happy. Mid-bass and lower mids are decent, even as someone who isn't really a bass guy much.


----------



## MichaelScarn

CocaCola15 said:


> Sad to hear that. I have the Between Pro and like them too, no hiccups so far. But no response from them? Not good. I paid $75 on the first wave so not a major issue should they malfunction, but even so ...


Just got a response on FB. No idea what took them so long, but apparently the warranty on my BP’s is extended for an extra 6 months (the reason I tried to contact them). So all good. For now 😉


----------



## mtl171 (Aug 13, 2021)

Kathiravan JLR said:


> Hello Guys,
> Is there a real difference between the LDAC and the AAC codec? In my testing i cant find a big difference and literally i don't even find a single difference! Whats your view on this guys?


FWIW I cannot hear a difference between the two during a quick non-blinded test. Both were streaming Apple Music Lossless on a LG V40 to a Qudelix 5K + Sony IER-M9 at the same volume. LDAC was set to optimize for audio quality/96Khz with the rest of the settings left on default. The only time I could a difference was when the connection dropped for a while using LDAC 

Last time I tried a similar test (NPR audio quality test using 320kbps VBR mp3 vs uncompressed WAV wired), I was able to pick the WAV >50% of the time but honestly explain the difference I was hearing in words. I have been able to discern between 256kbps AAC (on Apple devices) vs high bit rate SBC but thats about it as far as other bluetooth codecs go.


----------



## samandhi

bhima said:


> Anyone having issues getting an android phone to get proper volume out of bluetooth headphones? For awhile things were fine and the volume was more than sufficient. Lately though, with the volume maxxed on the phone AND the apps its very hard to hear.


Have you tried disabling (or enabling, whichever is the opposite of what it is set to right now on your phone) "Absolute Volume" in your developer's settings?


----------



## CocaCola15

scubaphish said:


> I’m so jealous that you got them to fit so well. I tried and just couldn’t get them to work. What I heard sounded really nice, though.


I just find the foam to be perfect, both in material and fit. So it's like ANC for the most part. Sorry they didn't work for you. Someone posted on Amazon or another site that they went to the smallest silicone and that worked for some reason. They would not have tried the smalls. Weird.


----------



## scubaphish (Aug 13, 2021)

CocaCola15 said:


> I just find the foam to be perfect, both in material and fit. So it's like ANC for the most part. Sorry they didn't work for you. Someone posted on Amazon or another site that they went to the smallest silicone and that worked for some reason. They would not have tried the smalls. Weird.


I think I have weird ear canals, can’t get the Klipsch to sit well, either. Or I don’t know how to use these things 😳

my Klipsch foam arrive tomorrow, else guess I may be stuck using the PI7


----------



## BooleanBones

scubaphish said:


> I think I have weird ear canals, can’t get the Klipsch to sit well, either. Or I don’t know how to use these things 😳
> 
> my Klipsch foam arrive tomorrow, else guess I may be stuck using the PI7


I feel the same sometimes. Glad I'm not the only one.


----------



## scubaphish

BooleanBones said:


> I feel the same sometimes. Glad I'm not the only one.


And it’s not like I haven’t been using IEM since the Shure E5s


----------



## erockg

scubaphish said:


> And it’s not like I haven’t been using IEM since the Shure E5s


I use the XL tips, put them in my ears, spin the bud back and pull out a little.  Sound like a lot but it works.  Also, you should call Klipsch, they can send you the wingtips.  I bet that helps.  They do help make them snug.  They sent me a set for free.


----------



## scubaphish

erockg said:


> I use the XL tips, put them in my ears, spin the bud back and pull out a little.  Sound like a lot but it works.  Also, you should call Klipsch, they can send you the wingtips.  I bet that helps.  They do help make them snug.  They sent me a set for free.


Yeah, I bet they would…they sent me the foams, no problem. Very nice customer service experience. Thanks for the advice on the twist. I’m sure I tried the twist, but maybe not with the XL.


----------



## gwompki

Definitely don't need the 1+ but at the $99 price point I'm really curious.


----------



## senorbroom

vsg28 said:


> Will happen later today, I had the same question and was told the Americas teams are just getting to work now etc.


Tell them to allow shipping to Australia from Amazon. Memomania products are impossible to get here!


----------



## Kathiravan JLR

samandhi said:


> Technically there is a difference. As for real world, it depends on some things. Your ears are the most important. Some people can't hear a difference between a 320 mp3 file and redbook (16/44) or even better. It also depends on the device. It may be tuned in such a way that you would never hear the difference.
> 
> If you have a really revealing set of headphones, and some really good gear (for instance), you are more likely to hear the difference in the quality of a file than if you are trying to tell with, say, skullcandy IEMs. Obviously this is pretty extreme, but you get the point.
> 
> But on paper, the difference is very real. It also depends on the implementation of those codecs as to how well they "fool" your ears into thinking that all the information is still there. Either way, both codecs are lossy, so some data gets tossed out. Hope that helps a little anyhow?!


Agreed… tried the AAC codec in the Sony wf 1000xm3 and also tried the DSEE turned on but I can’t find the difference between the both… may be it’s the perception makes the difference 😅


----------



## chinmie

Kathiravan JLR said:


> Agreed… tried the AAC codec in the Sony wf 1000xm3 and also tried the DSEE turned on but I can’t find the difference between the both… may be it’s the perception makes the difference 😅



with DSEE turned on, the change that i hear is a bit of extra "sizzle" or sparkle on the top treble, but i ended up not ever using it again because it iritates my ears in longer listening, not to mention the huge drop of the battery life


----------



## X-Nemesis

How are the M1+ for running?  Also hoping to see Amazon.ca start selling the MT's again.


----------



## Rizorith

How do the 1+ compare to the touch, now that both have been out for a while and have gone through multiple firmware updates?

Also, is there any serious news that CA is making a new line with anc? I have Jabra 65t but want better sound and anc. The only thing I like about them is the comfort, which is why I got off the Galaxy buds pro a while back


----------



## CocaCola15

Sound-wise I just find the M1+ meet my preferences, and as I noted, I prefer foam for in-ears when possible. I just could not get the MTs to fit properly. And while the M1+ Offer no ANC, they seal outside sound just fine. If you find the right tips, the M1+ will be fine for runners (someone asked about that earlier.
My sad story is I somehow lost my M1+, just yesterday. Looked high and low. Mind freeze where I put them or they may have fallen out of my pocket in the case when I was out. I had them with me.  Just ordered a new pair for $99 on Amazon. Stuff happens I guess. Arriving Tuesday.


----------



## samandhi (Aug 13, 2021)

Rizorith said:


> How do the 1+ compare to the touch, now that both have been out for a while and have gone through multiple firmware updates?
> 
> Also, is there any serious news that CA is making a new line with anc? I have Jabra 65t but want better sound and anc. The only thing I like about them is the comfort, which is why I got off the Galaxy buds pro a while back


I don't own the 1+, but looking at the pics and specs, the 1+ are shaped more like the M 1, but have tech like the MT. They have the clicky buttons instead of the touch found on the MT. They have ANC where the MT has "hear through" mode. These also fit more like IEMs than the MT which basically sit ON your ear canal, rather that insert into them. They both use the same app AFAIK?!

If you like really deep sub-bass, these might not be for you, as they only go down to 100Hz (according to the specs). But they last for something like 9 hours one charge, and 45 with the case... Other than those things, I don't know the differences in sound, or the quality of the ANC, etc...

Edit: My bad, they do not have ANC, it has noise cancellation of the mics (apparently for when you are on calls)...


----------



## CocaCola15

Sound-wise I just find the M1+ meet my preferences, and as I noted, I prefer foam for in-ears when possible. I just could not get the MTs to fit properly. And while the M1+ Offer no ANC, they seal outside sound just fine. If you find the right tips, the M1+ will be fine for runners (someone asked about that earlier.
My sad story is I somehow lost my M1+, just yesterday. Looked high and low. Mind freeze where I put them or they may have fallen out of my pocket in the case when I was out. I had them with me.  Just ordered a new pair for $99 on Amazon. Stuff happens I guess. Arriving Tuesday


samandhi said:


> I don't own the 1+, but looking at the pics and specs, the 1+ are shaped more like the M 1, but have tech like the MT. They have the clicky buttons instead of the touch found on the MT. They have ANC where the MT has "hear through" mode. These also fit more like IEMs than the MT which basically sit ON your ear canal, rather that insert into them. They both use the same app AFAIK?!
> 
> If you like really deep sub-bass, these might not be for you, as they only go down to 100Hz (according to the specs). But they last for something like 9 hours one charge, and 45 with the case... Other than those things, I don't know the differences in sound, or the quality of the ANC, etc...
> 
> Edit: My bad, they do not have ANC, it has noise cancellation of the mics (apparently for when you are on calls)...


I wish I was more adept describing the differences, but it just came down to fit, form and most of all I reached for the M1+ almost every time because I found the sound more to my liking. I owned the  M1 as well. Gave them to a good friend. He sent me a nice bottle of French champagne! Loves them. The MT and M1+ both use the same app, but the latter have had fewer FW updates.


----------



## CocaCola15 (Aug 13, 2021)

Double post


----------



## Tommy C

One major difference is also that the Melomania Touch has Ambient mode and the 1+ doesn't which is a bit of a bummer if you're used to it.


----------



## CocaCola15

No doubt, but I never use ambient/hearthrough mode.


----------



## C_Lindbergh

I'd use it more if I didn't have to go through so many steps, first you gotta tap once to pause the music and then tap another 3 times to enable ambient mode.

I wish CA would give us the option to automaticaly pause the music when ambient mode is enabled, and fully customizable controls.


----------



## potix (Aug 14, 2021)

C_Lindbergh said:


> I wish CA would give us the option to automaticaly pause the music when ambient mode is enabled


More brands should do it or auto enable ambient when you pause the music, I can't find other benefits from this feature than that.


----------



## tiagopinto

C_Lindbergh said:


> I'd use it more if I didn't have to go through so many steps, first you gotta tap once to pause the music and then tap another 3 times to enable ambient mode.
> 
> I wish CA would give us the option to automaticaly pause the music when ambient mode is enabled, and fully customizable controls.



Hi C, this is not accurate. You can activate Transparency on the MT with three taps only, whether the music is playing or not. 

I use it VERY often. Actually this is one feature which has improved soundwise. It’s not so “metallic” anymore. A bit more natural.


----------



## C_Lindbergh

tiagopinto said:


> Hi C, this is not accurate. You can activate Transparency on the MT with three taps only, whether the music is playing or not.
> 
> I use it VERY often. Actually this is one feature which has improved soundwise. It’s not so “metallic” anymore. A bit more natural.



Well, personally I only use ambient mode when I want to interact with the world, so having music blasting at full volume does nothing for me when I enable ambient, so gotta pause it seperatly as well. 

Many brands either pauses the music, or lowers the volume when you enable ambient


----------



## tiagopinto

C_Lindbergh said:


> Well, personally I only use ambient mode when I want to interact with the world, so having music blasting at full volume does nothing for me when I enable ambient, so gotta pause it seperatly as well.
> 
> Many brands either pauses the music, or lowers the volume when you enable ambient



Ah, I see what you mean. Well, for me it’s good because, for example, while working from home, listening to music, I still want to hear if the doorbell rings or if my wife summons me when she’s there. If I’m focused, I just turn it off and listen to the music. Same for out and about. If I’m at a store I may choose to listen to the outside or not, whether music’s playing or not. I like that it’s independent.


----------



## Juturna (Aug 14, 2021)

Been using the Sennheiser Momentum TW2's a bit more now these last two-ish days and I'm pretty torn here. I figured that I was going to sell them (actually already put up an ad listing online) but i'm really starting to enjoy them.

At their worst they sound less enjoyable to my ears than the worst of the Sony XM4's, and the ANC is lacklustre, the app is pretty damn bad when it comes to EQ and features are pretty slim.
But at their best they do sound better than the Sony XM4's (to me).
I might change my mind later on about that if I end up buying some better silicone tips for the XM4's, but just comparing right now they havebetter clarity in the mids and treble, and way more of an emphasis on sub-bass than the XM4's, which to me sounds really good.
I find the MTW2's lacking just a little bit when it comes to mid bass though.
So all in all the bass sounds really smooth and deep since it's mostly low-end rumbling, but I miss some presence up there in some songs where you want to hear the ferocity of a distorted electronic bass line, or just hear the characteristics of a plucked electric bass. 

As I've mentioned before i'm using an iPhone right now so I can't exactly EQ outside of the app, but I feel like Wavelet could make these sound even better.
I had to drag the bass slider up quite a bit in the Sennheiser app, not specifically because I felt like they needed much more bass, but it was the only thing that helped them from sounding really sibilant and harsh in the treble region to my ears.
Just lowering the treble in the app just made them lose all damn sparkle and made the highs just sound incredibly muted without actually removing the sibilance bothering me, which was weird. 

So if Sennheiser just implemented an actual 8-10 band EQ instead of just having 3 sliders I think these would sound fantastic.
I think it's a really bad move that a company that is known for both consumer and audiophile products decided to have such a lackluster EQ in their app. Even just a 5-band EQ would be decent enough, but 3 is such a weird number because you can't really treat "bass" as just one thing because earbuds can still have too much of one bass-region and too little in another... oh well.


----------



## scubaphish

Juturna said:


> Been using the Sennheiser Momentum TW2's a bit more now these last two-ish days and I'm pretty torn here. I figured that I was going to sell them (actually already put up an ad listing online) but i'm really starting to enjoy them.
> 
> At their worst they sound less enjoyable to my ears than the worst of the Sony XM4's, and the ANC is lacklustre, the app is pretty damn bad when it comes to EQ and features are pretty slim.
> But at their best they do sound better than the Sony XM4's (to me).
> ...


Funny, you sound like me as I compare the Klipsch T5 ANC with the PI7. The T5 have a 5 band eq. I drag the 50 and 150 up and I’m really enjoying the clarity. I thought I had decided on keeping the PI7, but now I’m just not sure anymore. Thanks to erockg for suggestions for fit.


----------



## Kathiravan JLR

scubaphish said:


> Funny, you sound like me as I compare the Klipsch T5 ANC with the PI7. The T5 have a 5 band eq. I drag the 50 and 150 up and I’m really enjoying the clarity. I thought I had decided on keeping the PI7, but now I’m just not sure anymore. Thanks to erockg for suggestions for fit.


The PI7 sounds very bassy whereas the MT2 sounds very much balanced and neat. And yeah the app and the ANC are pretty much lackluster


----------



## scubaphish (Aug 14, 2021)

Kathiravan JLR said:


> The PI7 sounds very bassy whereas the MT2 sounds very much balanced and neat. And yeah the app and the ANC are pretty much lackluster


Fair enough. I tried the MT2 and wasn’t too impressed…felt a little sterile to me. The Klipsch definitely feel fuller to me than the MT2 did.

keep going back to SemiAudiofile’s footer… “trust your own ears”. Trying to allow myself to do that


----------



## erockg

scubaphish said:


> Funny, you sound like me as I compare the Klipsch T5 ANC with the PI7. The T5 have a 5 band eq. I drag the 50 and 150 up and I’m really enjoying the clarity. I thought I had decided on keeping the PI7, but now I’m just not sure anymore. Thanks to erockg for suggestions for fit.


Glad they're working out.  I had the PI7s and wound up returning them.  I didn't think they got that loud and I was having horrible bluetooth issues with them.  Definitely not worth the price.  That said, wow, I've been using those T5 II ANCs all week and I just love them.  They get loud, love my custom EQ'd sound and been using them on calls all day for work until they run out.  Really happy Klipsch nailed it in this current version!


----------



## Tommy C (Aug 14, 2021)

erockg said:


> Glad they're working out.  I had the PI7s and wound up returning them.  I didn't think they got that loud and I was having horrible bluetooth issues with them.  Definitely not worth the price.  That said, wow, I've been using those T5 II ANCs all week and I just love them.  They get loud, love my custom EQ'd sound and been using them on calls all day for work until they run out.  Really happy Klipsch nailed it in this current version!



Nice to hear! (sorry, I had to) 

Do you think the Klipsch T5 II ANC is worth the extra price or would you say the Klipsch T5 II sans the ANC is a better bang for the buck?
Personally, I'm not sure I care much about ANC.


----------



## erockg

Tommy C said:


> Nice to hear! (sorry, I head to)
> 
> Do you think the Klipsch T5 II ANC is worth the extra price or would you say the Klipsch T5 II sans the ANC is a better bang for the buck?
> Personally, I'm not sure I care much about ANC.


I've had every incarnation and in my opinion the new ANC version really is better than all the rest.  I would def say it's more bang for the buck, but not everyone wants to spend the extra cash.  I picked up the McLaren version and I couldn't be happier.


----------



## darveniza

erockg said:


> I've had every incarnation and in my opinion the new ANC version really is better than all the rest.  I would def say it's more bang for the buck, but not everyone wants to spend the extra cash.  I picked up the McLaren version and I couldn't be happier.


I think the ANC is not as strong. Would buy the version without ANC


----------



## Juturna

scubaphish said:


> Fair enough. I tried the MT2 and wasn’t too impressed…felt a little sterile to me. The Klipsch definitely feel fuller to me than the MT2 did.
> 
> keep going back to SemiAudiofile’s footer… “trust your own ears”. Trying to allow myself to do that


They are a little sterile in the mids and highs but they’re still pretty good when you get used to the sound signature. I wouldn’t say that I *love* them but honestly not sure I could say that about any TW earbuds I’ve had when it comes to purely the sound.


----------



## scubaphish

erockg said:


> Glad they're working out.  I had the PI7s and wound up returning them.  I didn't think they got that loud and I was having horrible bluetooth issues with them.  Definitely not worth the price.  That said, wow, I've been using those T5 II ANCs all week and I just love them.  They get loud, love my custom EQ'd sound and been using them on calls all day for work until they run out.  Really happy Klipsch nailed it in this current version!


I’m really on the fence about the PI7. They get loud enough for me, but I’m an iPhone guy, so while AAC sounds good, it’s not at good as AptX. So I use the creative dongle, but it has a tendency to skip and crackle, which is less than ideal. So I’m trying to compare the two sets using just AAC and the Klipsch are so clear and have punchy bass. The PI7 sound wonderful sometimes, bringing out bass lines I really enjoy hearing, but as others have said, sometimes the bass seems like it’s veiling high hats and snares. It’s really obvious when compared to the Klipsch.

It’s starting to sound like I’m returning those PI7 on Monday


----------



## erockg

darveniza said:


> I think the ANC is not as strong. Would buy the version without ANC


Fair enough, but I'm not suggesting buying them specifically because of the ANC.  In my real world conditions, the ANC kills the fans and outdoor noise while I'm stuck at home working during the pandemic.  The ANC in combination with the passive isolation is quite good for my use.  That said, I'm suggesting mores because there is definitely a better sound signature, the app seems to work better on my iPhone (better than the standard/older T5 II, Dirac really does make a difference, wireless charging works perfectly, transparency/passthrough mode works better (probably because of the mics) and Bragi gestures are incredibly convenient.  Sure, if he doesn't want that, then go for the model that is dirt cheap right now.  For me, I want the latest improved tech.


----------



## erockg

scubaphish said:


> I’m really on the fence about the PI7. They get loud enough for me, but I’m an iPhone guy, so while AAC sounds good, it’s not at good as AptX. So I use the creative dongle, but it has a tendency to skip and crackle, which is less than ideal. So I’m trying to compare the two sets using just AAC and the Klipsch are so clear and have punchy bass. The PI7 sound wonderful sometimes, bringing out bass lines I really enjoy hearing, but as others have said, sometimes the bass seems like it’s veiling high hats and snares. It’s really obvious when compared to the Klipsch.
> 
> It’s starting to sound like I’m returning those PI7 on Monday


I know others may disagree here, but I would return them.  They're expensive, the battery just doesn't last, and for a first gen product that I had been waiting on from B&W, I truly felt they dropped the ball.  I so very much wanted them to be perfect.  I prefer my Devialet, Klipsch and M&Ws.  But it's just one mans opinion   I've got the new B&O EQs coming next week so we'll see how they stack up against my big boys.


----------



## erockg

Juturna said:


> They are a little sterile in the mids and highs but they’re still pretty good when you get used to the sound signature. I wouldn’t say that I *love* them but honestly not sure I could say that about any TW earbuds I’ve had when it comes to purely the sound.


Totally agree -- trust your own ears.  I will say, the MTW2s are starting to get overshadowed by so many newer models.  The tech keeps getting better.  It's quite exciting.


----------



## CJYYZ

erockg said:


> Totally agree -- trust your own ears.  I will say, the MTW2s are starting to get overshadowed by so many newer models.  The tech keeps getting better.  It's quite exciting.


Any ETA for the next version of the MTW2s? They have been around for almost a year and a half and are looking a little long in the (Blue)tooth compared to the great gear the competition has been releasing.


----------



## scubaphish

erockg said:


> I know others may disagree here, but I would return them.  They're expensive, the battery just doesn't last, and for a first gen product that I had been waiting on from B&W, I truly felt they dropped the ball.  I so very much wanted them to be perfect.  I prefer my Devialet, Klipsch and M&Ws.  But it's just one mans opinion   I've got the new B&O EQs coming next week so we'll see how they stack up against my big boys.


What makes the decision more difficult is I got the PI7 for same price as Klipsch. And I reeeaaallly want to like the PI7


----------



## erockg (Aug 14, 2021)

CJYYZ said:


> Any ETA for the next version of the MTW2s? They have been around for almost a year and a half and are looking a little long in the (Blue)tooth compared to the great gear the competition has been releasing.


Nothing on my radar.  I usually check the FCC site and haven’t see anything recently.


----------



## krenzler

I will say this again - for me the MTW2 sounds much more balanced and right with Comply foam tips (for Sennheiser TWS). With the supplied silicone overall balance was somewhat off and no amount of EQ could correct it 100% (although it did better it). Again goes to show how important a proper fit and seal is for the driver to reach its potential. Getting them seated properly is a bit cumbersome but worth it.


----------



## jant71

I am selling on most of my TWS stuff in case any are interested. My N6 Pro 2, CKR70TW, Cleer, 2 JVC's, Sabbat etc. Figure I'd mention here before putting up the rest of my listings here and on ebay.


----------



## clerkpalmer

erockg said:


> Fair enough, but I'm not suggesting buying them specifically because of the ANC.  In my real world conditions, the ANC kills the fans and outdoor noise while I'm stuck at home working during the pandemic.  The ANC in combination with the passive isolation is quite good for my use.  That said, I'm suggesting mores because there is definitely a better sound signature, the app seems to work better on my iPhone (better than the standard/older T5 II, Dirac really does make a difference, wireless charging works perfectly, transparency/passthrough mode works better (probably because of the mics) and Bragi gestures are incredibly convenient.  Sure, if he doesn't want that, then go for the model that is dirt cheap right now.  For me, I want the latest improved tech.


Also the drivers are new so it’s not apples to apples minus ANC. I’m with Erockg on this - don’t buy dated tws. Buy the latest and greatest tech or don’t bother. It’s not worth the small savings.


----------



## BooleanBones

erockg said:


> I know others may disagree here, but I would return them.  They're expensive, the battery just doesn't last, and for a first gen product that I had been waiting on from B&W, I truly felt they dropped the ball.  I so very much wanted them to be perfect.  I prefer my Devialet, Klipsch and M&Ws.  But it's just one mans opinion   I've got the new B&O EQs coming next week so we'll see how they stack up against my big boys.


Will be interesting to see your take on the EQs.


----------



## Caipirina

Sony XM4 battery life question. I thought I had seen a detailed test somewhere but can’t find now. I am a bit surprised that I now already twice ran into the ‘battery low - please charge’ warning. Which I attribute to 2 things. A) I love those buds and forget I have them in and easily go 3-4h forgetting I am wearing them. B) ANC & LDAC always on. That noise canceling eats battery is clear, but does the higher bit rate also have an effect? 
next time I really need to make note of the time, but I think it’s less than 4h now when the warning came …


----------



## potix

Caipirina said:


> Sony XM4 battery life question. I thought I had seen a detailed test somewhere but can’t find now. I am a bit surprised that I now already twice ran into the ‘battery low - please charge’ warning. Which I attribute to 2 things. A) I love those buds and forget I have them in and easily go 3-4h forgetting I am wearing them. B) ANC & LDAC always on. That noise canceling eats battery is clear, but does the higher bit rate also have an effect?
> next time I really need to make note of the time, but I think it’s less than 4h now when the warning came …


Every extra feature drains battery: anc/ambient, ldac, equalizer, dsee, assistants and speak to chat.


----------



## Caipirina

potix said:


> Every extra feature drains battery: anc/ambient, ldac, equalizer, dsee, assistants and speak to chat.


yep, have that all on BUT assistants / speak to chat
I thought I saw a table somewhere where someone tested this all in more detail


----------



## helmutcheese

^^ Best look/ask in here:  https://www.head-fi.org/threads/sony-wf-1000xm4-impressions-thread.958184/page-57#post-16451686


----------



## Juturna

clerkpalmer said:


> Also the drivers are new so it’s not apples to apples minus ANC. I’m with Erockg on this - don’t buy dated tws. Buy the latest and greatest tech or don’t bother. It’s not worth the small savings.


I'm somewhat agreeing because the Bluetooth tech is improving drastically and I can tell how damn fast earbuds have gotten to connect with phones on BT 5.2, I have three earbuds with 5.2 and two with... i'm not sure, 5.0 or 5.1, and most if not all of the 5.2 earbuds are already connected by the time i've gotten them in my ears, while the MT2's need a couple of seconds before it's connected.

But I feel like sound is the thing that has progressed the least on average, and if an older earbud is known to sound good and are offered at a discounted price I see few reasons to snag them if they're not known to suffer from some specific issue. If sound happens to be the main priority, of course. 
Otherwise yes, agreed. Especially since you can find cheaper buds today that rival the performance of more expensive buds from just a year (ish) ago.


----------



## stormwrx

https://www.scarbir.com/tws/nuarl-n6-pro2-review

I’ve had mine for a week and they are a joy to listen to - very balanced and natural, with ample detail, but still capturing emotion in the music.


----------



## Juturna

I seem to recall asking before but I might have just thought about asking, but are there any reliable European web stores that sell Nuarl earbuds?


----------



## clerkpalmer

Juturna said:


> I'm somewhat agreeing because the Bluetooth tech is improving drastically and I can tell how damn fast earbuds have gotten to connect with phones on BT 5.2, I have three earbuds with 5.2 and two with... i'm not sure, 5.0 or 5.1, and most if not all of the 5.2 earbuds are already connected by the time i've gotten them in my ears, while the MT2's need a couple of seconds before it's connected.
> 
> But I feel like sound is the thing that has progressed the least on average, and if an older earbud is known to sound good and are offered at a discounted price I see few reasons to snag them if they're not known to suffer from some specific issue. If sound happens to be the main priority, of course.
> Otherwise yes, agreed. Especially since you can find cheaper buds today that rival the performance of more expensive buds from just a year (ish) ago.


Sure. Depends on the savings I suppose. But 2 years in tws terms is like 5 years in normal tech. It’s moving at blazing speed. In the few occasions I’ve opted for the older model I’ve almost always regretted it.


----------



## 1mohmmad4

Guys how about geekfly gf10 and geekfly gf8s i think it is the most complex tws driver configuration i seen ever


----------



## scubaphish

Hi all. I’m selling my ddHifi TC28i USBC to lighting adapter, if anyone is interested. Ships from NYC instead of China.


----------



## jant71

scubaphish said:


> Hi all. I’m selling my ddHifi TC28i USBC to lighting adapter, if anyone is interested. Ships from NYC instead of China.


What's that got to do with true wireless earphones. 

Also, how come no TWS emoji on Head-Fi yet??


----------



## scubaphish

jant71 said:


> What's that got to do with true wireless earphones.
> 
> Also, how come no TWS emoji on Head-Fi yet??


Used with creative btw3 dongle for AptX and AptX HD


----------



## dj24

Panasonic RZ-S500 are currently just $40 on Woot.  I remember people here mentioning these had really good ANC when they first came out...

https://electronics.woot.com/offers...n=CJ&cjevent=7b007a67fe1a11eb805b028d0a1c0e0d


----------



## Caipirina (Aug 16, 2021)

I know, my posts are missing the hype-mark by 3-6 months .. and why the heck do I keep buying new stuff when I already have endgame buds like the Bose and Sony and Jabra ... well, my excuse this time is that my teenager is asking for ANC buds and I am sure not giving him anything north of 200$ when I know how often he 'misplaces' stuff ... so .. after some research I thought about the Soundpeats T2 .. but checking more thoroughly it seems to be a bit of a gamble if one gets a good one or a bad apple (neither pun nor relation) ... scarbir describes the ANC sound glitch issues best and there are reviews on amazon / youtube sharing the same sentiment ...
anyhoo .. I was actually super surprised to find a shop that has soundpeat stuff here locally (H1 on pre-order) AND the price was even better than AliExpres (by a bit, probably the same after coupon magic) .. so, now I am testing for a few days if these are good and if not, I have to test how well 'warranty' or 'return' works here.




But overall, oh wow, they are very comparable with the Jabra 85T in fit .. the ANC is impressive, not only for that price segment ... and the sound has that nice kinda dark, warm, snuggly blanket feel to it which I really like .. so .. I might keep'em ??? no, if they work without problems, the teen gets it


----------



## tinyman392

dj24 said:


> Panasonic RZ-S500 are currently just $40 on Woot.  I remember people here mentioning these had really good ANC when they first came out...
> 
> https://electronics.woot.com/offers...n=CJ&cjevent=7b007a67fe1a11eb805b028d0a1c0e0d


I purchased a pair to see.  Seemed pretty cheap.


----------



## vsg28

FYI Panasonic is going to offload all consumer audio to the Technics brand, at least from what I've been told. So there may be some good deals coming up on other Panasonic items too.


----------



## scubaphish

Anyone with the Klipsch T5 II ANC know how to lower the volume for voice prompts?


----------



## dj24

tinyman392 said:


> I purchased a pair to see.  Seemed pretty cheap.



I did too.  Complete impulse buy at this price for a set that has an app and 50 levels of ANC intensity to choose from (whatever that means )


----------



## bhima

samandhi said:


> Have you tried disabling (or enabling, whichever is the opposite of what it is set to right now on your phone) "Absolute Volume" in your developer's settings?


Will give that a go and see how it goes


----------



## erockg

scubaphish said:


> Anyone with the Klipsch T5 II ANC know how to lower the volume for voice prompts?


Not sure you can do that with the voice on the buds.  I never really notice it.


----------



## tinyman392

dj24 said:


> I did too.  Complete impulse buy at this price for a set that has an app and 50 levels of ANC intensity to choose from (whatever that means )


Mine actually just arrived (I had ordered it yesterday), really fast shipping I guess.  Needs to charge before using as per instructions.  I think the batteries came completely drained.  The case is very tiny which is quite nice.  The housings are a little thicker and do stick out, though so do my Jabra.


----------



## dj24

tinyman392 said:


> Mine actually just arrived (I had ordered it yesterday), really fast shipping I guess.  Needs to charge before using as per instructions.  I think the batteries came completely drained.  The case is very tiny which is quite nice.  The housings are a little thicker and do stick out, though so do my Jabra.


Really looking forward to hearing your thoughts on the sound quality and the call quality as well.  I have the Jabra Elite Active 75t that I use for my cisco jabber VOIP work calls and I hope this'll make it in the rotation as well.  I'll receive mine by wednesday.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

tinyman392 said:


> Mine actually just arrived (I had ordered it yesterday), really fast shipping I guess.  Needs to charge before using as per instructions.  I think the batteries came completely drained.  The case is very tiny which is quite nice.  The housings are a little thicker and do stick out, though so do my Jabra.


Sounds like you'll have similar battery escapades as the AZ70W. Won't be much of an issue unless you haven't used them for a while; a simple top-up once a week should do the trick.


----------



## tinyman392 (Aug 16, 2021)

dj24 said:


> Really looking forward to hearing your thoughts on the sound quality and the call quality as well.  I have the Jabra Elite Active 75t that I use for my cisco jabber VOIP work calls and I hope this'll make it in the rotation as well.  I'll receive mine by wednesday.


I have a pair of 85t that don't see as much use as I'd like.  The tips are a little wonky, but it still works.  The tips of the Panasonic are more comfortable than the 85t's ovular tips.  I don't tend to use many of my headphones for VOIP calls, so I won't be able to comment on that. I'm actually really surprised they got to me so quickly. 


miserybeforethemusic said:


> Sounds like you'll have similar battery escapades as the AZ70W. Won't be much of an issue unless you haven't used them for a while; a simple top-up once a week should do the trick.


I'm not sure how long these were stocked away in storage, what conditions the storage was in, or how much Panasonic charges them from factor.  Batteries do drain if unused, though you are right, some seem to do it much faster than others.  The housings have finally finished charging, the case is still not quite half way yet.

_____

Edit: there is a firmware update for mine.


----------



## senorbroom

New Sennheiser app update. Fingers crossed the new products refers to MTW3.


----------



## jant71 (Aug 16, 2021)

senorbroom said:


> New Sennheiser app update. Fingers crossed the new products refers to MTW3.



Latest filings show a CX Plus true wireless. Marketing planned for Sept. 14, 2021.


----------



## CocaCola15

After selling off the Melomania Touch (just could not get a comfy fit) and promptly losing the Melomania 1+ (literally the next day; new ones arriving tomorrow), I am down to a single pair of TW in-ears, the Status Audio Between Pros. I just wasn't using them and that was not being fair. I went out earlier, set the Kaiser Audio player EQ with a touch of added bass (personal preference) and damn, to my poor old ears, these things sound fantastic. I know they are not in much demand here, but at the Indiegogo price of $75, it's like theft. Back at home, listening to String crooning My Funny Valentine on Chris Botti's Live album ... wonderful sound, balanced, treble not harsh but hardly soft, mids on the money. Now, I just hope they don't have any issues, because I saw that some are having trouble getting the Status folks to respond to problems. Anyway, just an observation. I had deserted the BPs, but rediscovered them.


----------



## jsmiller58 (Aug 16, 2021)

CocaCola15 said:


> After selling off the Melomania Touch (just could not get a comfy fit) and promptly losing the Melomania 1+ (literally the next day; new ones arriving tomorrow), I am down to a single pair of TW in-ears, the Status Audio Between Pros. I just wasn't using them and that was not being fair. I went out earlier, set the Kaiser Audio player EQ with a touch of added bass (personal preference) and damn, to my poor old ears, these things sound fantastic. I know they are not in much demand here, but at the Indiegogo price of $75, it's like theft. Back at home, listening to String crooning My Funny Valentine on Chris Botti's Live album ... wonderful sound, balanced, treble not harsh but hardly soft, mids on the money. Now, I just hope they don't have any issues, because I saw that some are having trouble getting the Status folks to respond to problems. Anyway, just an observation. I had deserted the BPs, but rediscovered them.


I actually enjoy the BPs quite a bit.  The only thing off putting for me is the form factor…. I just cannot get over the feeling that it looks like I am wearing USB drives in my ears.  But yes they do sound very pleasant indeed.  However they are quite basic with no app and no ANC, so even pleasing sound isn’t quite enough to convince me to recommend them.  But to each their own!


----------



## senorbroom (Aug 16, 2021)

jant71 said:


> Latest filings show a CX Plus true wireless. Marketing planned for Sept. 14, 2021.



Nice, I found this in a web cache:




New Nuarl N6 Mini Series 2: https://av.watch.impress.co.jp/docs/news/1343569.html


----------



## CocaCola15

jsmiller58 said:


> I actually enjoy the BPs quite a bit.  The only thing off putting for me is the form factor…. I just cannot get over the feeling that it looks like I am wearing USB drives in my ears.  But yes they do sound very pleasant indeed.  However they are quite basic with no app and no ANC, so even pleasing sound isn’t quite enough to convince me to recommend them.  But to each their own!


Understood. I don’t mind the fit/form factor. And ANC or an app not needed. The Kaiser Audio player does what I need EQ-wise, and I seldom use TW in-ears at home, opting for on ear of over ear phones. But at $149, there are other options. At $75, a true value for me.


----------



## tgx78

Onyx Apex impressions coming soon..


----------



## miserybeforethemusic (Aug 17, 2021)

Funnily enough, I remember getting these CF01 specifically in the hopes it would help me take the P1 wireless. While it's still not a replacement for a good desktop solution, I'm proud to say they still sound friggin' fantastic. With the stock foam tips, even...imagine that.

And it's in _this _configuration that I took a trip to the local convenience store. Only the loudest of engines were able to break through (the kind you feel before you see), otherwise it was like a cocoon inside my head. What surprised me most was hearing how well-positioned and how realistically things moved around on the soundstage. I deliberately picked out a few tracks that featured wide stereo panning to test this and it's honestly impressive how glued the sound field is.

But what about the CF01?! Long term opinion is that they're worth it. I really like how stress-free the case has been. Hinge still works great, all the padding inside is still plush, and it fits gobs of extra tips/potentially even another IEM set in there if you wanted to. The OE adapters worked a treat, especially in terms of ergonomics with the Blessing 2. Sad that this is a differentiator, but it has wireless charging that works. Just about everything I've connected to it sounds impeccable, especially the Campfire Honeydew (only other source pairing I preferred more than it was the Qudelix 5K).

Verdict? She's pricey, but she works hard for the money.


----------



## samandhi (Aug 17, 2021)

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Funnily enough, I remember getting these CF01 specifically in the hopes it would help me take the T1 wireless. While it's still not a replacement for a good desktop solution, I'm proud to say they still sound friggin' fantastic. With the stock foam tips, even...imagine that.
> 
> And it's in _this _configuration that I took a trip to the local convenience store. Only the loudest of engines were able to break through (the kind you feel before you see), otherwise it was like a cocoon inside my head. What surprised me most was hearing how well-positioned and how realistically things moved around on the soundstage. I deliberately picked out a few tracks that featured wide stereo panning to test this and it's honestly impressive how glued the sound field is.
> 
> ...


Those P1 (I assume you meant P1, not T1) are one of those very rare things that only happen once in a while. They have been very polarizing because they are hard to find something that they sound to their potential on (making them worth the $170 original asking price), but when you find something that they synergize with, and are driven properly, (IMO) they sound like $700, $800, $900 or even more.

I still have yet to try those CF01's, but they have never left my radar. Glad they are still in your rotation.


----------



## MichaelScarn

CocaCola15 said:


> Understood. I don’t mind the fit/form factor. And ANC or an app not needed. The Kaiser Audio player does what I need EQ-wise, and I seldom use TW in-ears at home, opting for on ear of over ear phones. But at $149, there are other options. At $75, a true value for me.


To me they sound better than the Melomania Touch and they fit _way_ better. Only downside, compared to the Melomania's, is that they don't have an app. 
As for the customer service, apparently they had some kind of a technical problem with Zendesk; I got the responses to all my requests the last couple of days. So that seems solved. If you send them the order number, you get an extra 6 months of warranty.


----------



## christosjr1

Hello to all, hope everyone is healthy.
Till now i was listening to music through my sansa clip+ and my oneplus 7t pro from my betrusted rha ma390.
Now i need some tws that can handle music and movies through netflix, youtube with low latency. ANC is not that important.
The budget can stretch to a 250euro amount.
I have been all around for reviews and i am so confused. From Samsung buds plus to sennheiser mtw2 and xm4s.
Any input would be greatly appreciated.


----------



## samandhi

christosjr1 said:


> Hello to all, hope everyone is healthy.
> Till now i was listening to music through my sansa clip+ and my oneplus 7t pro from my betrusted rha ma390.
> Now i need some tws that can handle music and movies through netflix, youtube with low latency. ANC is not that important.
> The budget can stretch to a 250euro amount.
> ...


I don't really have a rec for you because I don't own any that have LL. There are not a ton of options that actually have LL codec implemented, though there are some that don't actually have it, but do get pretty good latency. None of the pairs I have are able to do Youtube without latency. They do Netflix pretty well, and obviously music. Youtube seems to be the stick to measure low latency connections IMO. There is a lot of marketing with TWS where they advertise LL, but you will find they don't actually have the AptX LL codec implemented. 

Samsung buds have great low latency, but you need to have an actual Samsung phone in order to take advantage of their proprietary "adaptive" codec. I have heard that the sonys seem to be pretty good in this area, but I cannot confirm?!


----------



## potix

christosjr1 said:


> Hello to all, hope everyone is healthy.
> Till now i was listening to music through my sansa clip+ and my oneplus 7t pro from my betrusted rha ma390.
> Now i need some tws that can handle music and movies through netflix, youtube with low latency. ANC is not that important.
> The budget can stretch to a 250euro amount.
> ...


With sony xm4 I can't detect any delay on youtube and netflix apps. On vlc there is a 250/300 ms delay.


----------



## chinmie

christosjr1 said:


> Hello to all, hope everyone is healthy.
> Till now i was listening to music through my sansa clip+ and my oneplus 7t pro from my betrusted rha ma390.
> Now i need some tws that can handle music and movies through netflix, youtube with low latency. ANC is not that important.
> The budget can stretch to a 250euro amount.
> ...



for netflix and youtube, i think all of my TWS down to the cheapest ones seems to have no problem with latency, as the app itself have a good delay compensation..unless of course for gaming, then better search the ones with gaming mode or Aptx LL


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

chinmie said:


> for netflix and youtube, i think all of my TWS down to the cheapest ones seems to have no problem with latency, as the app itself have a good delay compensation..unless of course for gaming, then better search the ones with gaming mode or Aptx LL


Yep; my understanding is that both apps are optimized to minimize lag between the phone and earbuds. I don't think a single pair I own can't lock in latency. Even the 5K can keep sync over LDAC, which seems to be everyone's problem child when it comes to detectable lag.

Agreed about the gaming comments, though I'll add this is one of the things aptX Adaptive was supposed to help with. Assuming your device handles the codec, $50 gets you into the Edifier TWS1 Pro ($42.49 when I checked on Amazon). It's not the most stellar performer out there, but it's dead simple to use and probably is the cheapest way to get an Adaptive set at the moment (assuming you don't find a deal on something used).


----------



## clerkpalmer

This strikes me as dumb:

https://www.engadget.com/amp/nura-nurabuds-subscription-wireless-earbuds-132117967.html


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

clerkpalmer said:


> This strikes me as dumb:
> 
> https://www.engadget.com/amp/nura-nurabuds-subscription-wireless-earbuds-132117967.html


Nura has always kinda done their own thing. I'll be surprised if this isn't successful, knowing how the general market behaves. Still probably won't be enough to take much market share from Apple, but I do hope they properly dispose of the used earbuds every two years or that's a whole lotta waste.


----------



## erockg

clerkpalmer said:


> This strikes me as dumb:
> 
> https://www.engadget.com/amp/nura-nurabuds-subscription-wireless-earbuds-132117967.html


Yeah, agreed, no interest, but I read people are subscribing.  Different stokes. I had the Nuratrue but returned them.  They don’t get very loud and the fit was temperamental.  But they did sound very good after you run the personalized EQ.  The Nurabuds do not have this feature but you can export from another Nura device and import into the Nurabuds.


----------



## clerkpalmer

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Nura has always kinda done their own thing. I'll be surprised if this isn't successful, knowing how the general market behaves. Still probably won't be enough to take much market share from Apple, but I do hope they properly dispose of the used earbuds every two years or that's a whole lotta waste.


I have enough subscriptions in my life. I’ll give them credit for trying something new but i would rather just buy them for 100.


----------



## erockg

clerkpalmer said:


> I have enough subscriptions in my life. I’ll give them credit for trying something new but i would rather just buy them for 100.


Completely agree.


----------



## TK33 (Aug 17, 2021)

clerkpalmer said:


> I have enough subscriptions in my life. I’ll give them credit for trying something new but i would rather just buy them for 100.


Something else I think I am (and many others are) starting to accumulate too many of: TWS/headphone apps (and apps in general) on my phones.  Would be nice if Qualcomm or a third party developed an app to control multiple devices across different manufacturers since many of them use similar chips. Just an idea...


----------



## CocaCola15

MichaelScarn said:


> To me they sound better than the Melomania Touch and they fit _way_ better. Only downside, compared to the Melomania's, is that they don't have an app.
> As for the customer service, apparently they had some kind of a technical problem with Zendesk; I got the responses to all my requests the last couple of days. So that seems solved. If you send them the order number, you get an extra 6 months of warranty.


Thanks, I will get that warranty extension!


----------



## KopaneDePooj

Caipirina said:


> I know, my posts are missing the hype-mark by 3-6 months .. and why the heck do I keep buying new stuff when I already have endgame buds like the Bose and Sony and Jabra ... well, my excuse this time is that my teenager is asking for ANC buds and I am sure not giving him anything north of 200$ when I know how often he 'misplaces' stuff ... so .. after some research I thought about the Soundpeats T2 .. but checking more thoroughly it seems to be a bit of a gamble if one gets a good one or a bad apple (neither pun nor relation) ... scarbir describes the ANC sound glitch issues best and there are reviews on amazon / youtube sharing the same sentiment ...
> anyhoo .. I was actually super surprised to find a shop that has soundpeat stuff here locally (H1 on pre-order) AND the price was even better than AliExpres (by a bit, probably the same after coupon magic) .. so, now I am testing for a few days if these are good and if not, I have to test how well 'warranty' or 'return' works here.
> 
> But overall, oh wow, they are very comparable with the Jabra 85T in fit .. the ANC is impressive, not only for that price segment ... and the sound has that nice kinda dark, warm, snuggly blanket feel to it which I really like .. so .. I might keep'em ??? no, if they work without problems, the teen gets it


I had the Soundpeats T2 under my radar too. I ended up buying the Jabra 85t because I found a good price, but I'm still curious how do they compare in terms of sound? 
And do the T2 feel somehow open as the 85t or they create that closed-in feeling in the ear-canal?
Thanks!


----------



## SemiAudiophile

Melomania 1+ arrived today. Packaging was excellent just like before. 

Having some problems with the app though. I don't like that it forces you to update the firmware in order to use it. 






Got the firmware to update on the left bud no problem but for some reason it's stuck and won't update the ride side?


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

SemiAudiophile said:


> Melomania 1+ arrived today. Packaging was excellent just like before.
> 
> Having some problems with the app though. I don't like that it forces you to update the firmware in order to use it.
> 
> ...


What phone? If Android, force-close the app and dump the app cache, reopen and reattempt. I had similar issues.


----------



## SemiAudiophile

miserybeforethemusic said:


> What phone? If Android, force-close the app and dump the app cache, reopen and reattempt. I had similar issues.


Yeah Android, I figured it out. Had to unpair and re-pair the device. Needed to make sure both buds were paired/connected. 





They sound just like the original M1's. I think they sound quite nice with Wavelet AutoEQ on and using foam tips. The bass is still a little overbearing though, specifically in the midbass region. Maybe I'm just too used to so many IEMs that are neutral with subbass boost tuning. 😅


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

SemiAudiophile said:


> Yeah Android, I figured it out. Had to unpair and re-pair the device. Needed to make sure both buds were paired/connected.
> 
> 
> 
> They sound just like the original M1's. I think they sound quite nice with Wavelet AutoEQ on and using foam tips. The bass is still a little overbearing though, specifically in the midbass region. Maybe I'm just too used to so many IEMs that are neutral with subbass boost tuning. 😅


Yeah, takes a quick mental adjustment to get used to the healthier lower mids that seem to make up Cambridge's "sound." I find earbuds make a pretty decent palate-cleanser for that sort of thing, so I don't notice it now as much as I used to. Glad you were able to figure out the update issue.

Now I know I said there wouldn't be any new arrivals...



...and I was serious. These are the wife's, but at least I can sneak them away from her every now and then. She just got a S21 Ultra, so no more Airpods Pro. Yes, I know they'll still pair up, but they won't "work" the same way and this is someone I'm trying to help get through the Apple-Android UI chasm. Really don't want to add TWS gripes into the list of issues I'll be dealing with.


----------



## TK33

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Yeah, takes a quick mental adjustment to get used to the healthier lower mids that seem to make up Cambridge's "sound." I find earbuds make a pretty decent palate-cleanser for that sort of thing, so I don't notice it now as much as I used to. Glad you were able to figure out the update issue.
> 
> Now I know I said there wouldn't be any new arrivals...
> 
> ...


Which one did "she" get? Just preordered the Flip 3 for the wife so trying to decide what to do with "her" $100 pre-order credit.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

TK33 said:


> Which one did "she" get? Just preordered the Flip 3 for the wife so trying to decide what to do with "her" $100 pre-order credit.


We ordered her the Buds Pro in Lavender. Allegedly they have a white pair launching later this month, but I know my wife and she would want them yesterday.

Sigh, she's been grumpy whilst learning Android...


----------



## CocaCola15 (Aug 17, 2021)

SemiAudiophile said:


> Yeah Android, I figured it out. Had to unpair and re-pair the device. Needed to make sure both buds were paired/connected.
> 
> 
> 
> They sound just like the original M1's. I think they sound quite nice with Wavelet AutoEQ on and using foam tips. The bass is still a little overbearing though, specifically in the midbass region. Maybe I'm just too used to so many IEMs that are neutral with subbass boost tuning. 😅


Mine arrived today as well, after I lost my original pair. I had issues with the FW update too, on iOS. Just reset them and it finally worked. I love the foam tips.  Can’t say they sound exactly like the M1, but they are highly EQ-able. Don’t mind the bass, but I do tone it down a bit.


----------



## tinyman392 (Aug 17, 2021)

I’ve had a little time with the Panasonic now, not too much mind you.  The ANC is pretty good for low frequency droning noises, though kind of not there for any high frequency stuff.  For the most part, unless something is next to your ear you’ll likely not hear it, especially with music playing.  So between the passive and active stuff, it’s more than adequate.

Ambient mode by default will amplify outside sounds quite strongly.  Both the ANC and the passthrough modes are adjustable using the app’s sliders.  Placing the slider about 30-50% through will make it about the same volume as if you didn’t have them on.  Though it does seem to play back the upper midrange frequencies a little higher than normal, just slightly though.  Still quite good, but takes a bit of finagling to get right.

Sound signature is a bit on the bassy side.  A little stronger than what the Harman curve (for IEMs) calls for, but just a little.  The bass as a whole is on the slower side with a large body and sort of boomy presence.  It’s still well controlled and makes little to no attempt at texturing.  I would describe the bass as one-noted.  Midrange is warmed up by the bass and on the smoother side of things with just a hint of energy, though it could use some from this perspective.  Treble is on the softer side of things and quite smooth overall.  As a whole, I do enjoy the sound signature and feel they’d definitely be a steal for 40 bucks.  For an ANC headphone at the 180 price point, I feel the SQ is fair when factoring in the rest.

There is a 5-band EQ that can help even out the tonality of some stuff.  But there are things that an EQ just can’t fix.

Edit: the EQ only goes to +/- 6 dB.  So there is a small limit to it as most apps I’ve seen go up to 10 dB, though you generally don’t want to push it that far anyways.


----------



## clerkpalmer

Anyone noticing software gremlins with the T5II ANC. Mine are dead after being plugged in all day. Not a good sign.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

You know...for all the crud I could possibly give Samsung for the battery issues they had in the past, I have to hand it to them on design. This case is tiny and these buds are ridiculously good-looking. Lavender was the right choice.



Setup process was as dead simple as I was hoping for, though I honestly think the easiest setup I've had yet is with the JBL Club Pro+. For some reason, JBL's implementation of Fast Pairing seemed to go from brand-new-in-box to playing tunes in a lot less time and that includes the time required to download the JBL/Samsung required app and update the firmware. Really, it's a toss-up. From what I can see at least, the case is not going to be a fingerprint magnet, but the buds definitely are. You might want to dedicate a microfiber to these...and another case for tips; you're not going to want to open the Breadbox for Ants more than once...ever.

I have no idea how they sound, by the way. The wife took a phone call and didn't complain, which is higher praise than I expected to receive. She's tired, though, and, well, I'm sure I don't have to explain what that means. She's so tired, she didn't even want to put the second bud in to test ANC. The HearThrough caught her off guard, but I have a feeling she never used that feature on the APPs, so there's no basis for comparison. The best I got was "that's weird."


----------



## Caipirina

KopaneDePooj said:


> I had the Soundpeats T2 under my radar too. I ended up buying the Jabra 85t because I found a good price, but I'm still curious how do they compare in terms of sound?
> And do the T2 feel somehow open as the 85t or they create that closed-in feeling in the ear-canal?
> Thanks!


in terms of open feel they are identical IMHO ... there should be a difference, since the Jabra have oval tips .. yeah, maybe I feel it a little ... as for the sound, I want to say the Jabra sound better, but I think that might be my wallet brain talking (4 times the money, HAS to sound better) ... i'd love to do a true blindfold A/B with those, someone puts them in my ear, not telling me which is which ... i think they are VEYR close


----------



## davidcotton

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Yeah, takes a quick mental adjustment to get used to the healthier lower mids that seem to make up Cambridge's "sound." I find earbuds make a pretty decent palate-cleanser for that sort of thing, so I don't notice it now as much as I used to. Glad you were able to figure out the update issue.
> 
> Now I know I said there wouldn't be any new arrivals...
> 
> ...


Might have been better with the new beats that have the chip in that let’s them play nice with android?


----------



## scubaphish

clerkpalmer said:


> Anyone noticing software gremlins with the T5II ANC. Mine are dead after being plugged in all day. Not a good sign.


Only issue I’ve come across is with charging the case, especially using wireless. Case can get very hot and go into a warning mode, with lights blinking.


----------



## BooleanBones

scubaphish said:


> Only issue I’ve come across is with charging the case, especially using wireless. Case can get very hot and go into a warning mode, with lights blinking.


My AirPods Pro case does that on occasion too. The inconsistency in it is a bit concerning  Don't need it blowing up on my desk in front of me.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

Just hopped on to say goodbye. Maybe for a while, maybe permanently. Veterans on this forum need to change their tune.

I will not be attending CanJam and I will not be providing this site with any more content. I wish you all the best should you choose to stay here, but I can no longer support what Head-Fi has become.

Goodbye.


----------



## BooleanBones

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Just hopped on to say goodbye. Maybe for a while, maybe permanently. Veterans on this forum need to change their tune.
> 
> I will not be attending CanJam and I will not be providing this site with any more content. I wish you all the best should you choose to stay here, but I can no longer support what Head-Fi has become.
> 
> Goodbye.


----------



## vsg28

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Just hopped on to say goodbye. Maybe for a while, maybe permanently. Veterans on this forum need to change their tune.
> 
> I will not be attending CanJam and I will not be providing this site with any more content. I wish you all the best should you choose to stay here, but I can no longer support what Head-Fi has become.
> 
> Goodbye.


Who cares what so-called veterans think or do though? You do you, and if you don't find the joy in being here anymore then that's it. Even as someone who used to just watch this thread without actively participating, it was obvious how much the others benefited from your participation and I am sure you got to enjoy other experiences too. Just saying- it's not worth letting anyone dictate your presence on an online forum of all places lol.


----------



## erockg

clerkpalmer said:


> Anyone noticing software gremlins with the T5II ANC. Mine are dead after being plugged in all day. Not a good sign.


Weird.  No issue here so far.  Did you hard reset?


----------



## erockg

scubaphish said:


> Only issue I’ve come across is with charging the case, especially using wireless. Case can get very hot and go into a warning mode, with lights blinking.


I had that happen on my Nomad pad but hasn't happened on the Klipsch one yet.  Fingers crossed.


----------



## erockg

New Jabras coming.  Hearing enhancement, but also for music.  https://www.jabra.com/hearing/enhan...9ce&esid=4d278464-2000-ec11-94ef-00224880ee68


----------



## BigZ12

Sony WF-1000XM4 has horrible range, when using LDAC. 
I use a Fiio BTA30 in my living room. With the WH-1000XM4 (the cans), I can walk around everywhere in my small/medium sized apartment. 
With the WF's I can not go to my kitchen before the connection start to break. (about 6-7 meters from the transmitter in the living room)
Not particularly good with AAC from my iPhone 12 either, compared to many other models, but at least it holds a connection for most of my apartment.


----------



## tinyman392

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Just hopped on to say goodbye. Maybe for a while, maybe permanently. Veterans on this forum need to change their tune.
> 
> I will not be attending CanJam and I will not be providing this site with any more content. I wish you all the best should you choose to stay here, but I can no longer support what Head-Fi has become.
> 
> Goodbye.


😢


----------



## SemiAudiophile

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Just hopped on to say goodbye. Maybe for a while, maybe permanently. Veterans on this forum need to change their tune.
> 
> I will not be attending CanJam and I will not be providing this site with any more content. I wish you all the best should you choose to stay here, but I can no longer support what Head-Fi has become.
> 
> Goodbye.


Sad to hear that bud. I think you provide valuable insight on this forum and spark interesting conversations. 

I hope it wasn't me that offended you. I don't intend to offend anyone on this forum. I try to just give my honest opinion on products out there based on my experience. 

Taking a break from the forum can he good for the wallet though. 😉 Hope to see you back sometime.


----------



## potix

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Just hopped on to say goodbye. Maybe for a while, maybe permanently. Veterans on this forum need to change their tune.
> 
> I will not be attending CanJam and I will not be providing this site with any more content. I wish you all the best should you choose to stay here, but I can no longer support what Head-Fi has become.
> 
> Goodbye.


Hope you come back, have a good time in the meanwhile


----------



## potix

BigZ12 said:


> Sony WF-1000XM4 has horrible range, when using LDAC.
> I use a Fiio BTA30 in my living room. With the WH-1000XM4 (the cans), I can walk around everywhere in my small/medium sized apartment.
> With the WF's I can not go to my kitchen before the connection start to break. (about 6-7 meters from the transmitter in the living room)
> Not particularly good with AAC from my iPhone 12 either, compared to many other models, but at least it holds a connection for most of my apartment.


I have the BTA30 as well. The problem is the codec. With the Aonic50, that are full sized headphones, I can go only 3 meters further with ldac on.


----------



## samandhi

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Just hopped on to say goodbye. Maybe for a while, maybe permanently. Veterans on this forum need to change their tune.
> 
> I will not be attending CanJam and I will not be providing this site with any more content. I wish you all the best should you choose to stay here, but I can no longer support what Head-Fi has become.
> 
> Goodbye.


You will be missed by myself _and_ the community! Hope to see you here again sometime?!


----------



## chinmie

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Just hopped on to say goodbye. Maybe for a while, maybe permanently. Veterans on this forum need to change their tune.
> 
> I will not be attending CanJam and I will not be providing this site with any more content. I wish you all the best should you choose to stay here, but I can no longer support what Head-Fi has become.
> 
> Goodbye.



what happened?? 
i sure hope you would return again..


----------



## clerkpalmer

chinmie said:


> what happened??
> i sure hope you would return again..


Yeah - can you at least share what happened?  Don't leave us misery!


----------



## samandhi

chinmie said:


> what happened??
> i sure hope you would return again..





clerkpalmer said:


> Yeah - can you at least share what happened?  Don't leave us misery!


Let's put it this way; issues in another thread & mod censorship (deleting posts). I don't think he will be coming back.  I did let him know that he had many replies, and pleas for him to stay (from me also), so who knows, maybe after some time?!


----------



## clerkpalmer

samandhi said:


> Let's put it this way; issues in another thread & mod censorship (deleting posts). I don't think he will be coming back.  I did let him know that he had many replies, and pleas for him to stay (from me also), so who knows, maybe after some time?!


This place can be toxic. Over the in air pods max thread I almost got to that place. I had to take a break. Time heals all.


----------



## jant71

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Just hopped on to say goodbye. Maybe for a while, maybe permanently. Veterans on this forum need to change their tune.
> 
> I will not be attending CanJam and I will not be providing this site with any more content. I wish you all the best should you choose to stay here, but I can no longer support what Head-Fi has become.
> 
> Goodbye.



I haven't been around much lately myself the last three weeks so I guess I missed something not reading back. I say the it isn't what it used to be thing as well but this seems more than that. Maybe take a break till near Christmas and get your space and there should be plenty of new fall stuff to read up on. Not that you won't be peeking from time to time. Good luck anyway and take care. Lots more important stuff going on out there anyway.


----------



## erockg

New addition arrived today.  They are gorgeous.  More soon.


----------



## BooleanBones

erockg said:


> New addition arrived today.  They are gorgeous.  More soon.


I am hoping you say they are junk and don’t buy them 😂


----------



## tinyman392

erockg said:


> New addition arrived today.  They are gorgeous.  More soon.


Oh nice, I have their E8 from way back when.  I wonder how their ANC model is.


----------



## erockg

BooleanBones said:


> I am hoping you say they are junk and don’t buy them 😂


They are junk don't buy them unless you want something very nice .  Still testing them out.  Initial thoughts - sound great, ANC works well but I'm only testing while working from home.  Phone calls worked well.  No complaints.


----------



## LordToneeus

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Just hopped on to say goodbye. Maybe for a while, maybe permanently. Veterans on this forum need to change their tune.
> 
> I will not be attending CanJam and I will not be providing this site with any more content. I wish you all the best should you choose to stay here, but I can no longer support what Head-Fi has become.
> 
> Goodbye.


I'm sorry to hear that, man.  Hope to catch you on the flip side.


----------



## Tommy C

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Just hopped on to say goodbye. Maybe for a while, maybe permanently. Veterans on this forum need to change their tune.
> 
> I will not be attending CanJam and I will not be providing this site with any more content. I wish you all the best should you choose to stay here, but I can no longer support what Head-Fi has become.
> 
> Goodbye.



Sad to see that @miserybeforethemusic 
I hope you will be back as I always found your content to be relevant and interesting to the community.


----------



## jant71 (Aug 18, 2021)

Not a big thing but...



KEF doing more than the blah silver and will do Charcoal color for the Mu3. Be nice if they dropped the price to $199 as well but that is maybe asking a little too much.


----------



## TK33

jant71 said:


> Not a big thing but...
> 
> KEF doing more than the blah silver and will do Charcoal color for the Mu3. Be nice if they dropped the price to $199 as well but that is maybe asking a little too much.


Saw that too. Got excited then remembered it only does AAC and SBC which is why I passed the first time. 

Don't think they really lower MSRP although they do put things on sale every so often (at least their Q series speakers).  Maybe on clearance.  They recently raised prices on their speakers in the US.


----------



## erockg

erockg said:


> New addition arrived today.  They are gorgeous.  More soon.


In order of ANC preference here at home.


----------



## BooleanBones

erockg said:


> In order of ANC preference here at home.


XM4s if you still had them?


----------



## scubaphish

If anyone interested, world wide stereo has Klipsch T5II ANC open box for sale on eBay for $199.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Klipsch-T5...2349624.m46890.l49286&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0


----------



## erockg

BooleanBones said:


> XM4s if you still had them?


I'd put them behind the Devialet.  I think the Devialet have better ANC.  IMO.


----------



## logiatype

BigZ12 said:


> Sony WF-1000XM4 has horrible range, when using LDAC.
> I use a Fiio BTA30 in my living room. With the WH-1000XM4 (the cans), I can walk around everywhere in my small/medium sized apartment.
> With the WF's I can not go to my kitchen before the connection start to break. (about 6-7 meters from the transmitter in the living room)
> Not particularly good with AAC from my iPhone 12 either, compared to many other models, but at least it holds a connection for most of my apartment.


Iirc, the WH (and headset types) is a Class 1 Bluetooth device while the WF is a Class 2 device (much shorter range).


----------



## erockg

erockg said:


> In order of ANC preference here at home.


Sound is a different story.  The MW08s, Klipsch T5II ANC, B&O EQ and Devialet all sound amazing.  I'd say my order is D, B&O, K, M&D, then the Libratone Air+.  The new B&O EQ are amazing.  Bass is punchy, soundstage great, ANC decent (not better than the Devialet) and the build quality is just beautiful.  That said, no matter how many times I try to knock the Devialet Gemini out of my personal number 1 spot, they just keep shining.  This is coming from a guy who bought the first pairs of Earin M-1 and the Bragi Dash.  They've come so very far with TWS.


----------



## samandhi

jant71 said:


> Not a big thing but...
> 
> KEF doing more than the blah silver and will do Charcoal color for the Mu3. Be nice if they dropped the price to $199 as well but that is maybe asking a little too much.


Nice, but I'm more interested in the (un)mixed drink in the background...


----------



## CJYYZ

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Just hopped on to say goodbye. Maybe for a while, maybe permanently. Veterans on this forum need to change their tune.
> 
> I will not be attending CanJam and I will not be providing this site with any more content. I wish you all the best should you choose to stay here, but I can no longer support what Head-Fi has become.
> 
> Goodbye.


Sorry to see you go, in my short time here I've read dozens of your posts and recognized you are a huge asset on these forums. Thanks for the advice on the MT and Crystal tips, I'm looking forward to trying them out. Hope to see you back here in the future. High Fidelity - best movie ever!


----------



## scubaphish

erockg said:


> Sound is a different story.  The MW08s, Klipsch T5II ANC, B&O EQ and Devialet all sound amazing.  I'd say my order is D, B&O, K, M&D, then the Libratone Air+.  The new B&O EQ are amazing.  Bass is punchy, soundstage great, ANC decent (not better than the Devialet) and the build quality is just beautiful.  That said, no matter how many times I try to knock the Devialet Gemini out of my personal number 1 spot, they just keep shining.  This is coming from a guy who bought the first pairs of Earin M-1 and the Bragi Dash.  They've come so very far with TWS.


Are the B&O way better than the Klipsch (he asked somewhat unsure of his own choices 🥸)?


----------



## BooleanBones

scubaphish said:


> Are the B&O way better than the Klipsch (he asked somewhat unsure of his own choices 🥸)?


I feel your pain. I will know soon how my ears and hearing compare to his very soon. This board is bad for my wallet


----------



## erockg (Aug 18, 2021)

scubaphish said:


> Are the B&O way better than the Klipsch (he asked somewhat unsure of his own choices 🥸)?


It's just a tough call until you hear them.  They're both very very good.  Personally, I've had zero issues with the new Klipsch.  Both fit very different.  Klipsch go deep into your ear canal.  B&O are more traditional.  I have the McLaren T5 II ANC version and the case is very light, made of plastic, rubber and supposedly carbon fiber.  The standard T5 II ANCs have a polished metal case which I've had on the last gen and that's very nice.  The B&O case is more pocketable, slimmer.  Both brands usually have good sales and/or price drops on Amazon and Best Buy.  Sadly, my addiction is strong and I'm always an early adopter.


----------



## erockg

BooleanBones said:


> I feel your pain. I will know soon how my ears and hearing compare to his very soon. This board is bad for my wallet


Absolutely.  I love to hear others opinions.  I primarily listen to hard rock/metal and movie scores.  So for that, these work so very well.


----------



## erockg

jant71 said:


> Not a big thing but...
> 
> KEF doing more than the blah silver and will do Charcoal color for the Mu3. Be nice if they dropped the price to $199 as well but that is maybe asking a little too much.


I love the color over the silver, which I owned.  Sound is really nice, but no EQ, wireless charging and the ANC is very weak.  Fit was awesome.  Case small and cute.  But again, better options out there IMO.  But man, that Charcoal is nice.


----------



## Darkestred

erockg said:


> It's just a tough call until you hear them.  They're both very very good.  Personally, I've had zero issues with the new Klipsch.  Both fit very different.  Klipsch go deep into your ear canal.  B&O are more traditional.  I have the McLaren T5 II ANC version and the case is very light, made of plastic, rubber and supposedly carbon fiber.  The standard T5 II ANCs have a polished metal case which I've had on the last gen and that's very nice.  The B&O case is more pocketable, slimmer.  Both brands usually have good sales and/or price drops on Amazon and Best Buy.  Sadly, my addiction is strong and I'm always an early adopter.




im sorry if you mentioned this but what other top tier tws have you listened to?  Klipsch has me intrigued and i really dont need another tws but nowadays i might as well have one for every room and car and nook and cranny.

Has anyone heard the "new" Liberty 2 pro remix?  Wonder if its just the L2P with LDAC and other minor additons.


----------



## Tommy C (Aug 18, 2021)

Does anyone know if Cambridge Audio has discounted the M1+ because a newer version is coming soon?
Based on Amazon Canada it looks like only a few more left and new stock won't be coming anytime soon.
Normally if the stock will be replenished it will say something like "10 left, more on the way".

EDIT: the price is a solid deal but don't want to jump on it if a new version is just around the corner lol


----------



## jant71

Glidic taking a while to get somewhere with too many okay-ish models but they seem to upping their game here...

https://glidic-jp.translate.goog/tw...r_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en-US&_x_tr_pto=ajax,se,elem


----------



## Juturna (Aug 19, 2021)

I realized that the Sony Hybrid Foams from the XM4's really do sound better on the Sennheiser MTW2's than they do on the XM4's. Maybe just because I like the sound of the MTW2's in general but I feel like the tips don't give as much bass bloat or fuzzing up the mids like they do on the Sony's.

With that said, I still prefer silicone eartips on the MTW2's but my ears have been a bit sore lately and the soft foam feels a lot better and improves the passive noise isolation so it's not all bad to go this route for awhile.


----------



## clerkpalmer

erockg said:


> In order of ANC preference here at home.


I've found the Devialet ANC better than the T5 II by a large margin.  Having fit issues with the T5. They may be going back even though I love the sound.  With the new tips, the Devialet are solid as a rock in my ears.


----------



## scubaphish (Aug 19, 2021)

clerkpalmer said:


> I've found the Devialet ANC better than the T5 II by a large margin.  Having fit issues with the T5. They may be going back even though I love the sound.  With the new tips, the Devialet are solid as a rock in my ears.


I definitely found the fit challenging with the T5 but I think I’ve finally got them figured out. Certainly requires an extra push after putting them in, else they slide out; but I think I’m getting a pretty good seal, as don’t usually hear people speaking to me, even with ANC turned off.
All that said, I’m fairly tempted to try out the Devialet for SQ if nothing else

Add: oh yeah, it’s not just the extra push; it does take a fair amount of twisting, at least for me to lock it in.


----------



## erockg

scubaphish said:


> I definitely found the fit challenging with the T5 but I think I’ve finally got them figured out. Certainly requires an extra push after putting them in, else they slide out; but I think I’m getting a pretty good seal, as don’t usually hear people speaking to me, even with ANC turned off.
> All that said, I’m fairly tempted to try out the Devialet for SQ if nothing else
> 
> Add: oh yeah, it’s not just the extra push; it does take a fair amount of twisting, at least for me to lock it in.


I agree that the Devialet ANC is awesome.  You should definitely try them out.  I think you'll be quite surprised.  I bought mine from Crutchfield.  Great customer service.


----------



## erockg

clerkpalmer said:


> I've found the Devialet ANC better than the T5 II by a large margin.  Having fit issues with the T5. They may be going back even though I love the sound.  With the new tips, the Devialet are solid as a rock in my ears.


That's a bummer.  I'm not having issues.  I do line them up a certain way, insert and twist.  Not sure if you did, but still do try the wings if that is worth it to you.


----------



## erockg

Darkestred said:


> im sorry if you mentioned this but what other top tier tws have you listened to?  Klipsch has me intrigued and i really dont need another tws but nowadays i might as well have one for every room and car and nook and cranny.
> 
> Has anyone heard the "new" Liberty 2 pro remix?  Wonder if its just the L2P with LDAC and other minor additons.


Honestly, probably too many to list.  I try most if not all of the higher-end TWS.  Sad but true.  

Did try the LP2 when they first came out.  Didn't like the fit.  Back when this stupid pandemic didn't exist, used them in the office and co-workers complained of sound bleed.  The did sound good, but they went back.


----------



## clerkpalmer

erockg said:


> I agree that the Devialet ANC is awesome.  You should definitely try them out.  I think you'll be quite surprised.  I bought mine from Crutchfield.  Great customer service.


I think the Devialet is superior to the pI7 for sq.


----------



## erockg

clerkpalmer said:


> I think the Devialet is superior to the pI7 for sq.


I agree.  Had those PI7 and the pI5.  Really looked forward to them and in the end too many bugs for me.


----------



## BooleanBones

One observation with the T5 II ANC that none I have tried so far is the weapons grade case. Goodness


----------



## erockg

BooleanBones said:


> One observation with the T5 II ANC that none I have tried so far is the weapons grade case. Goodness


Oh for sure.  That metal case is awesome.  The McLaren case would crumble.


----------



## scubaphish (Aug 19, 2021)

erockg said:


> I agree that the Devialet ANC is awesome.  You should definitely try them out.  I think you'll be quite surprised.  I bought mine from Crutchfield.  Great customer service.


I’ve got my finger on the buy button, while bopping my head to the Klipsch….which I’m really enjoying. What a hobby

ADD: and with T5IIANC $100 off, seems like I should call it a day...but...can I?


----------



## scubaphish

erockg said:


> Oh for sure.  That metal case is awesome.  The McLaren case would crumble.


I thought body of that case was Kevlar


----------



## erockg

scubaphish said:


> I thought body of that case was Kevlar


That's the M&D MW08S.  Klipsch T5 II ANC McLaren is rubber, plastic and carbon fiber on the sides.


----------



## erockg

scubaphish said:


> I’ve got my finger on the buy button, while bopping my head to the Klipsch….which I’m really enjoying. What a hobby
> 
> ADD: and with T5IIANC $100 off, seems like I should call it a day...but...can I?


$100 off for the ANC version?!  Wow.  Where?


----------



## scubaphish (Aug 19, 2021)

erockg said:


> $100 off for the ANC version?!  Wow.  Where?


World wide stereo open box. They sell through eBay but carries full warranty. I bought my PI7 that way. B&W honored the receipt. And they take returns

I purchased last night, shipping today, will receive tomorrow !


----------



## erockg

scubaphish said:


> World wide stereo open box. They sell through eBay but carries full warranty. I bought my PI7 that way. B&W honored the receipt. And they take returns
> 
> I purchased last night, shipping today, will receive tomorrow !


Damn, great deal.  The Bragi gestures alone make this a steal.


----------



## bladefd

CJYYZ said:


> Sorry to see you go, in my short time here I've read dozens of your posts and recognized you are a huge asset on these forums. Thanks for the advice on the MT and Crystal tips, I'm looking forward to trying them out. Hope to see you back here in the future. High Fidelity - best movie ever!


What happened? I have not been on in a while.


----------



## jonathane40

I started a new thread before I saw this one. Has anyone used a true wireless MMCX adapter with CA Amdromeda like the Shure RMCE-TW1 or FiiO UTWS3? I would love to be able to enjoy the Andromeda’s When out and a little without having to deal with cables and adapters. I’m using an iPhone so not sure how Bluetooth connection would be between these adapters and iOS. I’m not looking at EQ not anything fancy


----------



## erockg

jonathane40 said:


> I started a new thread before I saw this one. Has anyone used a true wireless MMCX adapter with CA Amdromeda like the Shure RMCE-TW1 or FiiO UTWS3? I would love to be able to enjoy the Andromeda’s When out and a little without having to deal with cables and adapters. I’m using an iPhone so not sure how Bluetooth connection would be between these adapters and iOS. I’m not looking at EQ not anything fancy


Yep, I used the Shure, Fiio, Linsoul and Fostex TWS adapters with MMCX IEMs and 2 pin IEMs.  Worked great with my iPhone (outside of bulk) and I never had any connection issues.


----------



## jonathane40

erockg said:


> Yep, I used the Shure, Fiio, Linsoul and Fostex TWS adapters with MMCX IEMs and 2 pin IEMs.  Worked great with my iPhone (outside of bulk) and I never had any connection issues.


Did you have to change the settings on the Shure app when you were using them with earphones that are not Shure? If so, do you know if that works with Apple Music streaming? I have read that many of the app features only work with music that is physically downloaded in the phone and not streamed; at least on iPhones.
Thanks!


----------



## erockg

jonathane40 said:


> Did you have to change the settings on the Shure app when you were using them with earphones that are not Shure? If so, do you know if that works with Apple Music streaming? I have read that many of the app features only work with music that is physically downloaded in the phone and not streamed; at least on iPhones.
> Thanks!


Correct.  The Shure TWS are best for Shure IEMs.  You can't EQ any music unless you own it and dl it to the app.  It's sad because the adapters really are nice.  I did really like the Fostex but they are pricey and there is a new version coming out with a battery case.  I'd lean towards the TRN BTS20s pro or the Fiio due to price and Amazon availability.  This way, if you hate them you can return them easily.  That said, the Fiio and the Linsoul TRN BTS models go out of stock pretty fast on Amazon.  You might want to grab what you can to test them out.  It's a fun setup, but honestly, I grab my regular TWS more so the novelty faded for me.


----------



## SynaestheticA (Aug 20, 2021)

Nuarl N10 Pro vs N6 Pro 2

Ok, the review that no one asked for but was promised 7 weeks ago anyway.

The long and the short of it is that I prefer the N6 Pro 2. I find their design, their feel and their sound all superior to the N10 Pro.

The basics are that the N10 Pro has a wider soundstage. If we are talking about our heads the N10 Pro wraps its sound all the way around the back my head, over the top and just falling short of reaching my forehead pre-frontal whatever. The N6 Pro 2 in comparison doesn’t do the full wrap but gets pretty damned close. BUT I have started to find that perhaps a wider sound stage also = a reduced bass response. This might not be true at all and perhaps I should be put in jail for spreading misinformation but it is the impression I get from the Nuarl range.

But beyond that I also think the detail and energy of the N6 Pro 2 is better as well. With energy, I don’t mean electrical energy (Although that is great too, who doesn’t love electricity!) I mean the sound signature is more energetic but also true to form and detailed with great spacing and instrument placement.

There isn’t too much more to say I guess, even Nuarl has said that the N6 Pro 2 is their best sound yet so take that as you will.

The pro’s of the Pro is the dual earpiece functionality, the ANC (Not really a pro on any TWS IMO) AND the big pro of having the wing tip that it has an option to remove and replace with a little rubber wingless bit. However several weeks into the N6 Pro 2 and the one size fits all wing tip has not crossed my mind as an inconvenience.

The N10 Rubber wing tip piece also tends to collect dust fast and quickly starts to look less flashy.

I also have the N6 Mini and find myself using this more than the N10 Pro, the sound isn’t as good surely, but it has this more ‘full’ rounded and warm feel to its signature.


----------



## samandhi

bladefd said:


> What happened? I have not been on in a while.





miserybeforethemusic said:


> Just hopped on to say goodbye. Maybe for a while, maybe permanently. Veterans on this forum need to change their tune.
> 
> I will not be attending CanJam and I will not be providing this site with any more content. I wish you all the best should you choose to stay here, but I can no longer support what Head-Fi has become.
> 
> Goodbye.





samandhi said:


> Let's put it this way; issues in another thread & mod censorship (deleting posts). I don't think he will be coming back.  I did let him know that he had many replies, and pleas for him to stay (from me also), so who knows, maybe after some time?!


----------



## clerkpalmer

erockg said:


> That's a bummer.  I'm not having issues.  I do line them up a certain way, insert and twist.


Klipsch sending me wings. Hopefully they do the trick. Do enjoy the sound. A bit more relaxed than the gemini.


----------



## scubaphish

clerkpalmer said:


> Klipsch sending me wings. Hopefully they do the trick. Do enjoy the sound. A bit more relaxed than the gemini.


I tried the foam tips…so small…I can’t quite understand the Klipsch ear tip strategy…seems like they expect a seal far into ear. I’m sticking with the XL silicon for now and seem to be working. Interested in how wings feel…and if they fit in the case.


----------



## BooleanBones

scubaphish said:


> I tried the foam tips…so small…I can’t quite understand the Klipsch ear tip strategy…seems like they expect a seal far into ear. I’m sticking with the XL silicon for now and seem to be working. Interested in how wings feel…and if they fit in the case.


Looks like you have to use their tips as well? Cannot just throw on a set of third party tips from what I can tell by initially looking at them.


----------



## scubaphish

BooleanBones said:


> Looks like you have to use their tips as well? Cannot just throw on a set of third party tips from what I can tell by initially looking at them.


Agreed, proprietary connection
Don’t get me wrong, I got them to work, and sound terrific. Just saying I understand the challenge


----------



## scubaphish

Today I’m spending time going back and reading people’s thoughts on the WF-1000XM4. I just kind of wrote them off as bass machines without actually trying them out. Might just have to try them out


----------



## BooleanBones

scubaphish said:


> Today I’m spending time going back and reading people’s thoughts on the WF-1000XM4. I just kind of wrote them off as bass machines without actually trying them out. Might just have to try them out


Quite honestly, I have them with the Final TWS tips and really like them. They are packed with features I like, battery life is good, etc. I listen to a number of different genres, but generally enjoy unplugged music (acoustical, symphony collaboratiions, etc.) since you can really gauge a singers talent. That doesn't stop me from cranking old albums ranging from hard rock to reggae on a given day though. Also, other than the Melomania Touch's, they have the highest volume of TWSs I have tried. They will go beyond the loudness my ears can handle, which is pretty loud. I actually find that the biggest shortcoming in most TWS, but I understand it's probably for ear safety reasons.


----------



## scubaphish

BooleanBones said:


> Quite honestly, I have them with the Final TWS tips and really like them. They are packed with features I like, battery life is good, etc. I listen to a number of different genres, but generally enjoy unplugged music (acoustical, symphony collaboratiions, etc.) since you can really gauge a singers talent. That doesn't stop me from cranking old albums ranging from hard rock to reggae on a given day though. Also, other than the Melomania Touch's, they have the highest volume of TWSs I have tried. They will go beyond the loudness my ears can handle, which is pretty loud. I actually find that the biggest shortcoming in most TWS, but I understand it's probably for ear safety reasons.


Thanks a lot. I actually have a set of final type e TWS from my PI7; good to know they work well on the XM4, too. Your wide selection of judicial styles definitely intersects with mine. Think I found a set of certified refurb for 228. Seems silly not to try them out given the amount of positive reviews I’ve seen.


----------



## BooleanBones

scubaphish said:


> Thanks a lot. I actually have a set of final type e TWS from my PI7; good to know they work well on the XM4, too. Your wide selection of judicial styles definitely intersects with mine. Think I found a set of certified refurb for 228. Seems silly not to try them out given the amount of positive reviews I’ve seen.


Nice. I don't get overly excited to constantly fiddle with EQ settings and have found the Excited setting sounds pretty good with most of the music I enjoy regularly.


----------



## C_Lindbergh

scubaphish said:


> Today I’m spending time going back and reading people’s thoughts on the WF-1000XM4. I just kind of wrote them off as bass machines without actually trying them out. Might just have to try them out


I also really liked them, but in the end they were not as comfortable as my CA MT, so had to return them :/

But SQ is pretty good, however its main features is the tech and build quality.


----------



## scubaphish (Aug 20, 2021)

C_Lindbergh said:


> I also really liked them, but in the end they were not as comfortable as my CA MT, so had to return them :/
> 
> But SQ is pretty good, however its main features is the tech and build quality.


I think I want ANC since I’ll be walking around NYC with them, but the MT get such props around here and they happen to be back in stock on their US website….oh man, do I have to try them too? 😱😂
SQ is very important to me. Tempted by the Devialet but the size of the case is a bit of a turn off. 
That said, comfort was another reason I’ve been hesitant, as Sonys seem very large and read through some critiques of shape/size


----------



## C_Lindbergh

scubaphish said:


> I think I want ANC since I’ll be walking around NYC with them, but the MT get such props around here and they happen to be back in stock on their US website….oh man, do I have to try them too? 😱😂
> SQ is very important to me. Tempted by the Devialet but the size of the case is a bit of a turn off.
> That said, comfort was another reason I’ve been hesitant, as Sonys seem very large and read through some critiques of shape/size



Yea, there's always sacrifices you gotta make in the TWS market, the CA MT sounds excellent and are decently comfortable, but there's barely any tech features other than ambient mode.


----------



## TK33

scubaphish said:


> I think I want ANC since I’ll be walking around NYC with them, but the MT get such props around here and they happen to be back in stock on their US website….oh man, do I have to try them too? 😱😂
> SQ is very important to me. Tempted by the Devialet but the size of the case is a bit of a turn off.
> That said, comfort was another reason I’ve been hesitant, as Sonys seem very large and read through some critiques of shape/size


Something interesting about ANC I noticed yesterday when I was walking in the city with my PI7s was that the ANC actually eliminates the foot thumping sound quite a bit.  Didnt notice it until I turned ANC off (I was trying to catch my train at Penn so I was walking pretty fast).  Is that typical of ANC? I was always more of a passive isolation guy since ANC does give me the pressure feeling and a bit of a headache. Thumping noise was pretty bad with ANC off. Maybe I just gave weird ears.


----------



## Tommy C

scubaphish said:


> I think I want ANC since I’ll be walking around NYC with them, but the MT get such props around here and they happen to be back in stock on their US website….oh man, do I have to try them too? 😱😂
> SQ is very important to me. Tempted by the Devialet but the size of the case is a bit of a turn off.
> That said, comfort was another reason I’ve been hesitant, as Sonys seem very large and read through some critiques of shape/size



For me I kind of accepting the fact that I may not be able to have all tech and features in one set of TWS.
My Jabra Elite V2 is still going strong for 3 plus years now as I use it exclusively for phone calls at home and out and about.
The sq is decent but the best feature (for me) is the heart rate monitor and the sport app to track workouts. 
With that being said, like you I'm ready to pull the trigger on the CA Touch but they aren't available and was hesitant to go with the 1+ although discounted due to lack of the Ambient feature which I use very often. 

Nuarl N10 might be a good option based on what I read and well priced.


----------



## scubaphish

Tommy C said:


> For me I kind of accepting the fact that I may not be able to have all tech and features in one set of TWS.
> My Jabra Elite V2 is still going strong for 3 plus years now as I use it exclusively for phone calls at home and out and about.
> The sq is decent but the best feature (for me) is the heart rate monitor and the sport app to track workouts.
> With that being said, like you I'm ready to pull the trigger on the CA Touch but they aren't available and was hesitant to go with the 1+ although discounted due to lack of the Ambient feature which I use very often.
> ...


Not sure the last time you checked the CA website, but at least in the US, as of a little while ago, they seem to be available


----------



## Tommy C

scubaphish said:


> Not sure the last time you checked the CA website, but at least in the US, as of a little while ago, they seem to be available


Thanks. 
Unfortunately they're not available in Canada and they won't ship to Canadian address when choosing the US site


----------



## erockg

Tommy C said:


> Thanks.
> Unfortunately they're not available in Canada and they won't ship to Canadian address when choosing the US site


Looks like only white is in stock, but they’re also on Amazon US for ten dollars cheaper.  But that doesn’t help you in Canada!


----------



## scubaphish

Tommy C said:


> Thanks.
> Unfortunately they're not available in Canada and they won't ship to Canadian address when choosing the US site


Ah, damn border!


----------



## erockg

B&O sent me this coupon.  It's for the standard Beoplay E8 Third Gen, but they're still a beautiful pair of TWS. 

​
Enjoy 30% off select products
For a limited time only, get 30% off* the below selection of products. Use the code 30FLASHSALE at checkout to apply the discount.


GO TO OFFERS


----------



## BooleanBones

erockg said:


> B&O sent me this coupon.  It's for the standard Beoplay E8 Third Gen, but they're still a beautiful pair of TWS.
> 
> ​
> Enjoy 30% off select products
> ...


You didn’t mention their 2500$ speakers the coupon applies to also 😂


----------



## BooleanBones

erockg said:


> Absolutely.  I love to hear others opinions.  I primarily listen to hard rock/metal and movie scores.  So for that, these work so very well.


Got the EQs and T5 II ANCs yesterday and have been listening a bit. You were spot on with the quality of the EQ setup, very nice. The T5s are hardly noticeable in the ears once you get the fit down. The features on the Klipsch are great for sure. I like the sound of both, but wanted a bit more volume to both, but especially the EQs. Kind of wondering now if I need to go get my hearing checked


----------



## erockg

BooleanBones said:


> Got the EQs and T5 II ANCs yesterday and have been listening a bit. You were spot on with the quality of the EQ setup, very nice. The T5s are hardly noticeable in the ears once you get the fit down. The features on the Klipsch are great for sure. I like the sound of both, but wanted a bit more volume to both, but especially the EQs. Kind of wondering now if I need to go get my hearing checked


Glad you're enjoying them.  Yeah, the EQs definitely do not get as loud as the T5.  I've been going back and forth all day too.  I really am enjoying them both.  I bought some Final tips that will be here tomorrow.  Going to try them on the B&O.  Well, after all my years of listening to Metal, I'm sure I've lost some.  I remember in 1990 there was a surprise GnR show in Philly and man, Slash hit a note and it felt like a needle.  Sure, I blame Slash.  I can do that


----------



## BooleanBones

erockg said:


> Glad you're enjoying them.  Yeah, the EQs definitely do not get as loud as the T5.  I've been going back and forth all day too.  I really am enjoying them both.  I bought some Final tips that will be here tomorrow.  Going to try them on the B&O.  Well, after all my years of listening to Metal, I'm sure I've lost some.  I remember in 1990 there was a surprise GnR show in Philly and man, Slash hit a note and it felt like a needle.  Sure, I blame Slash.  I can do that


Slash will do that. Saw him jamming with Fergie on youtube or something. I think I like her singing Sweet Child O Mine better than Axl. I have Finals on the EQs now and really do like the sound and flexibility. Will listen some more this weekend and maybe come to a conclusion. I have PX7 carbons coming tomorrow, so not sure how successful I will be.


----------



## erockg

BooleanBones said:


> Slash will do that. Saw him jamming with Fergie on youtube or something. I think I like her singing Sweet Child O Mine better than Axl. I have Finals on the EQs now and really do like the sound and flexibility. Will listen some more this weekend and maybe come to a conclusion. I have PX7 carbons coming tomorrow, so not sure how successful I will be.


PX7 over ears?  I had them too Ha ha!  So sad.  Good to hear about the Finals.  Looking forward to trying them.


----------



## BooleanBones

erockg said:


> PX7 over ears?  I had them too Ha ha!  So sad.  Good to hear about the Finals.  Looking forward to trying them.


Yep. I have the PX v2 which are pretty good and built very nicely, but been thinking of upgrading them for a while as they are a bit heavy. Thought I would give the carbons a chance. Just going to start dropping you a note prior to my purchases to see what you think


----------



## erockg

BooleanBones said:


> Yep. I have the PX v2 which are pretty good and built very nicely, but been thinking of upgrading them for a while as they are a bit heavy. Thought I would give the carbons a chance. Just going to start dropping you a note prior to my purchases to see what you think


They're incredibly nice.  ANC is nothing compared to the Sony and Bose and AirPods Max.  I wound up flipping them.  Didn't use them enough and I can never use over ears for too long without having to take them off.  True Wireless all the way these days.


----------



## clerkpalmer

erockg said:


> They're incredibly nice.  ANC is nothing compared to the Sony and Bose and AirPods Max.  I wound up flipping them.  Didn't use them enough and I can never use over ears for too long without having to take them off.  True Wireless all the way these days.


Off topic a bit but I’ve been toying with a pair of APM again.  How are you liking them? My memory tells me sq was so so and the miss were sucked out. Any improvements along the way? I’m switching to android but plenty of iOS in the house.


----------



## Firevortex

SynaestheticA said:


> Nuarl N10 Pro vs N6 Pro 2
> 
> Ok, the review that no one asked for but was promised 7 weeks ago anyway.
> 
> ...




what tips are you using? did you get the foam tips from Earspan? they changed the sound signature of the N10 pro quite a bit. my initial review of the N10 pro was similar to yours with bass lacking. but their sound stage is not just 3d warping around the head but wide as in vocals etc are projecting further outside the head. there is also EQ option to boost up the bass in APP which is plenty.


----------



## gwompki

scubaphish said:


> I think I want ANC since I’ll be walking around NYC with them, but the MT get such props around here and they happen to be back in stock on their US website….oh man, do I have to try them too? 😱😂
> SQ is very important to me. Tempted by the Devialet but the size of the case is a bit of a turn off.
> That said, comfort was another reason I’ve been hesitant, as Sonys seem very large and read through some critiques of shape/size


I just noticed that the MT are back on Amazon as well for a discounted price of $119.  I had the XM3 and XM4 before I got the MT.  Both Sony's went back because the SQ of the MT was far superior to my ears.  I have missed the anc a couple of times when on a plane, but for the most part the passive isolation of the MT with Azla Crystal tips or EPro tws tips has been more than enough for me.  Granted, I don't live in NY so take that with a grain of salt.  The Devialet Gemini was definitely the BEST sounding ANC TWS I had, but the short battery life and a couple of other quirks made them not feasible for me at their price point.

I am also one of the few folks here (I think) that has the Moondrop Sparks.  I really love them and find them to be a great complement to the MT.  

Moondrop finally released their Android app, Moondrop Link, in the Play store and holy $&#& is it sketchy from a security perspective.  I downloaded it, updated the firmware and immediately deleted it.  It needs your GPS location in order to do anything (fw update, EQ, etc).  The privacy policy and the data they collect is also super alarming. The eq is  a joke as well with like 5 presets with nonsensical names.  Good thing they sound great with all of their defaults.  Moondrop needs to take note, as I would recommend everyone stay FAR AWAY from that app.


----------



## scubaphish (Aug 21, 2021)

gwompki said:


> I just noticed that the MT are back on Amazon as well for a discounted price of $119.  I had the XM3 and XM4 before I got the MT.  Both Sony's went back because the SQ of the MT was far superior to my ears.  I have missed the anc a couple of times when on a plane, but for the most part the passive isolation of the MT with Azla Crystal tips or EPro tws tips has been more than enough for me.  Granted, I don't live in NY so take that with a grain of salt.  The Devialet Gemini was definitely the BEST sounding ANC TWS I had, but the short battery life and a couple of other quirks made them not feasible for me at their price point.
> 
> I am also one of the few folks here (I think) that has the Moondrop Sparks.  I really love them and find them to be a great complement to the MT.
> 
> Moondrop finally released their Android app, Moondrop Link, in the Play store and holy $&#& is it sketchy from a security perspective.  I downloaded it, updated the firmware and immediately deleted it.  It needs your GPS location in order to do anything (fw update, EQ, etc).  The privacy policy and the data they collect is also super alarming. The eq is  a joke as well with like 5 presets with nonsensical names.  Good thing they sound great with all of their defaults.  Moondrop needs to take note, as I would recommend everyone stay FAR AWAY from that app.


Gemini should be arriving from Amazon today and still have the black MT in my CA cart ( think return policy is better for direct sales, and same price as Amazon). Been reading up on the MW08 and Kef MU3 this am.

also switched out the T5 XL tips after reading booleanbones talk about how he doesn’t feel them. Realized once I got the fit trick down, I should try smaller tips as that seems to be Klipsch MO. Was good idea, thanks


----------



## erockg

clerkpalmer said:


> Off topic a bit but I’ve been toying with a pair of APM again.  How are you liking them? My memory tells me sq was so so and the miss were sucked out. Any improvements along the way? I’m switching to android but plenty of iOS in the house.


I truly liked them and they work so well within the Apple ecosystem.  ANC was amazing.  I didn’t like the sound.  Separation and soundstage was nice.  Did feel they lacked punch.  Wound up flipping them.  The clamping fit was just too much for me.  Plus, they are heavy.


----------



## clerkpalmer

erockg said:


> I truly liked them and they work so well within the Apple ecosystem.  ANC was amazing.  I didn’t like the sound.  Separation and soundstage was nice.  Did feel they lacked punch.  Wound up flipping them.  The clamping fit was just too much for me.  Plus, they are heavy.


What are you using now?


----------



## Tommy C (Aug 21, 2021)

If anyone is interested Amazon has 45% off coupon on the FIIL T1XS which brings the already reduced price down to $27.50. based on reviews these are very good and now has full app support.
Heck, l just ordered them.
Edit: only white ones are 45% off.


----------



## erockg (Aug 21, 2021)

clerkpalmer said:


> What are you using now?


No over ears, just TWS right now.  I did have the Sennheiser M3s and really loved the sound.  ANC was bad in my use.  If they upped the ante there, I would’ve kept them.  They are so comfy.


----------



## clerkpalmer

scubaphish said:


> Gemini should be arriving from Amazon today and still have the black MT in my CA cart ( think return policy is better for direct sales, and same price as Amazon). Been reading up on the MW08 and Kef MU3 this am.
> 
> also switched out the T5 XL tips after reading booleanbones talk about how he doesn’t feel them. Realized once I got the fit trick down, I should try smaller tips as that seems to be Klipsch MO. Was good idea, thanks


What’s the fit trick?


----------



## scubaphish (Aug 21, 2021)

clerkpalmer said:


> What’s the fit trick?


Insert and twist and then push. I know that may be par for course with TWS, but I wasn’t doing it, or not enough. I have to twist and then give an extra push in and they create a good seal. I think I might insert, twist up, then twist down, then push in

Swapped out xl for large in one ear and medium + in the other

edit: who am I kidding, I jam them in. I hold my earlobe with couple of fingers and use others to push the bud in.


----------



## scubaphish

scubaphish said:


> Gemini should be arriving from Amazon today and still have the black MT in my CA cart ( think return policy is better for direct sales, and same price as Amazon). Been reading up on the MW08 and Kef MU3 this am.
> 
> also switched out the T5 XL tips after reading booleanbones talk about how he doesn’t feel them. Realized once I got the fit trick down, I should try smaller tips as that seems to be Klipsch MO. Was good idea, thanks


Ordered the MT. Now I’ve got the Gemini, MT, and XM4 on the way…while enjoying the T5. The MW08 and Kef are all that’s left to order (already tried the PI7). The MW08 really seem to have to different experiences on this board.


----------



## jsmiller58

scubaphish said:


> Ordered the MT. Now I’ve got the Gemini, MT, and XM4 on the way…while enjoying the T5. The MW08 and Kef are all that’s left to order (already tried the PI7). The MW08 really seem to have to different experiences on this board.


Wow!  Looking forward to any comparisons that you post!


----------



## scubaphish

jsmiller58 said:


> Wow!  Looking forward to any comparisons that you post!


Hope I can contribute fair, good feedback to the group.


----------



## BooleanBones

scubaphish said:


> Ordered the MT. Now I’ve got the Gemini, MT, and XM4 on the way…while enjoying the T5. The MW08 and Kef are all that’s left to order (already tried the PI7). The MW08 really seem to have to different experiences on this board.


Not to throw a variable in the mix, but the B&O EQ have really good SQ in my opinion. I actually think they fill a couple of the shortcomings of the PI7s (coming from a B&W fanboy). Great case and a handy sound adjustment "wheel". I don't have the ears as some of the folks here, but the clarity of them is very nice. Listened to them for a few hours last night, and I was pretty impressed. Definitely a noticeable difference when I switched to the XM4s and T5 IIs and listened to the same tracks. They don't have the features the other two have though, but so far pretty good ANC (Adaptive). I will listen to them some more today and try to get a better comparison of the three.


----------



## scubaphish (Aug 21, 2021)

BooleanBones said:


> Not to throw a variable in the mix, but the B&O EQ have really good SQ in my opinion. I actually think they fill a couple of the shortcomings of the PI7s (coming from a B&W fanboy). Great case and a handy sound adjustment "wheel". I don't have the ears as some of the folks here, but the clarity of them is very nice. Listened to them for a few hours last night, and I was pretty impressed. Definitely a noticeable difference when I switched to the XM4s and T5 IIs and listened to the same tracks. They don't have the features the other two have though, but so far pretty good ANC (Adaptive). I will listen to them some more today and try to get a better comparison of the three.


Yeah, been watching you guys write about the B&O. Besides the cost differential, I have same hesitation as I do with the MW08…whenever I tried their over ears I wasn’t so impressed…in fact, ended up with B&W. That said, that was years ago.

And talk about B&W fanboy, I tried 2 PI5 and 3 PI7…I reeaalllly wanted to love them. Still second guessing my decision to return them; but I just heard so much more clarity in the highs on the T5 I couldn’t listen to the PI7 anymore. They’re fun and warm and cozy but there’s something missing despite the extra driver


----------



## clerkpalmer (Aug 21, 2021)

scubaphish said:


> Yeah, been watching you guys write about the B&O. Besides the cost differential, I have same hesitation as I do with the MW08…whenever I tried their over ears I wasn’t so impressed…in fact, ended up with B&W. That said, that was years ago.
> 
> And talk about B&W fanboy, I tried 2 PI5 and 3 PI7…I reeaalllly wanted to love them. Still second guessing my decision to return them; but I just heard so much more clarity in the highs on the T5 I couldn’t listen to the PI7 anymore. They’re fun and warm and cozy but there’s something missing despite the extra driver


I’d love to try the EQ. Are they available through anyone other than B&O direct that this time? Quick search shows not yet on Amazon. I have a hard time paying that much without a high end codec on board. It seems like we have hit the peak of how good a single DD can sound in a tws with AAC / APTx as the max codec.  A little bit like chasing unicorns.


----------



## BooleanBones

scubaphish said:


> Yeah, been watching you guys write about the B&O. Besides the cost differential, I have same hesitation as I do with the MW08…whenever I tried their over ears I wasn’t so impressed…in fact, ended up with B&W. That said, that was years ago.
> 
> And talk about B&W fanboy, I tried 2 PI5 and 3 PI7…I reeaalllly wanted to love them. Still second guessing my decision to return them; but I just heard so much more clarity in the highs on the T5 I couldn’t listen to the PI7 anymore. They’re fun and warm and cozy but there’s something missing despite the extra driver


I feel your pain  I have never tried their cans, but I do have a pair of the E8 v1s which I grew sour on.


----------



## BooleanBones

clerkpalmer said:


> I’d love to try the EQ. Are they available through anyone other than B&O direct that this time? Quick search shows not yet on Amazon. I have a hard time paying that much without a high end codec on board. It seems like we have hit the peak of how good a single DD can sound in a tws with AAC / APTx as the max codec.


I bought direct. I didn't see them anywhere else either. They were just released I think.


----------



## scubaphish

clerkpalmer said:


> I’d love to try the EQ. Are they available through anyone other than B&O direct that this time? Quick search shows not yet on Amazon. I have a hard time paying that much without a high end codec on board. It seems like we have hit the peak of how good a single DD can sound in a tws with AAC / APTx as the max codec.  A little bit like chasing unicorns.


Closest thing I’m seeing to additional distribution is “coming soon” with “preorder” at B&H Photo


----------



## clerkpalmer

scubaphish said:


> Closest thing I’m seeing to additional distribution is “coming soon” with “preorder” at B&H Photo


Thanks. I’m all about Amazon these days. Everything else is a pia.


----------



## scubaphish

clerkpalmer said:


> Thanks. I’m all about Amazon these days. Everything else is a pia.


Understood. I’m trying a couple of direct purchases this round…fingers crossed


----------



## Juturna

Is there a huge thread like this for over-ear BT headphones? I’ve tried to acquaint myself with the forum a bit but I couldn’t find it when searching. I’ve basically only posted in this thread and the WF-XM4 thread but I’ve been looking into getting a pair of over-ears too sooo. 

Sorry for getting a bit off-topic.


----------



## BooleanBones

Juturna said:


> Is there a huge thread like this for over-ear BT headphones? I’ve tried to acquaint myself with the forum a bit but I couldn’t find it when searching. I’ve basically only posted in this thread and the WF-XM4 thread but I’ve been looking into getting a pair of over-ears too sooo.
> 
> Sorry for getting a bit off-topic.


I've only seen general threads and not one specific like this one.


----------



## TK33

scubaphish said:


> Ordered the MT. Now I’ve got the Gemini, MT, and XM4 on the way…while enjoying the T5. The MW08 and Kef are all that’s left to order (already tried the PI7). The MW08 really seem to have to different experiences on this board.


I suspect the differences in opinion regarding the MW08 have to do more with personal preferences when it comes to sound signature  than SQ.  My only experience is the MW07 Go and I really enjoy them for when I doing things around the house or working out although the M&D tuning was not my favorite. Also really like the physical buttons.  I do find them to be a bit V shaped for my taste and reports of even more bass on the MW08 is what kept me away since I knew that was not the type of sound signature I was looking for.  No complaints when it came to SQ though.  Will probably replace my MW07 Go whenever the next gen comes out though.


----------



## scubaphish (Aug 21, 2021)

TK33 said:


> I suspect the differences in opinion regarding the MW08 have to do more with personal preferences when it comes to sound signature  than SQ.  My only experience is the MW07 Go and I really enjoy them for when I doing things around the house or working out although the M&D tuning was not my favorite. Also really like the physical buttons.  I do find them to be a bit V shaped for my taste and reports of even more bass on the MW08 is what kept me away since I knew that was not the type of sound signature I was looking for.  No complaints when it came to SQ though.  Will probably replace my MW07 Go whenever the next gen comes out though.


Yeah, I’ve read “V shape” more than a couple of times…but then at least one or two reviewers say mids/vocals come through with great clarity. I’m gonna keep my expectations in check, but I’d love to be pleasantly surprised. M&D seem to make it easy enough to return if I don’t like them. In this crazy pandemic world, awfully fun to sit/walk around and try all these amazing sonic creations.
Only downside is my wife getting pissed that I never hear her when she’s trying to get my attention.

Edit: I appreciate your differentiating between signature and quality…not sure but I’ve probably been conflating the two in my head…I’m knocking the SQ of PI7 when maybe it’s the signature I’m down on


----------



## erockg

clerkpalmer said:


> I’d love to try the EQ. Are they available through anyone other than B&O direct that this time? Quick search shows not yet on Amazon. I have a hard time paying that much without a high end codec on board. It seems like we have hit the peak of how good a single DD can sound in a tws with AAC / APTx as the max codec.  A little bit like chasing unicorns.


I got them from B&O direct and they did one day shipping.  I've been using them quite a bit.  Did a two mile walk with the family, had transparency turned on while listening to the Mets continue their slide.  It was awful, but the headphones really did work well.  Even sat and ate dinner outside with a toddler and wife.  Managed to listen to the game and hold a conversation.  I'm a bad husband.


----------



## erockg (Aug 21, 2021)

scubaphish said:


> Yeah, I’ve read “V shape” more than a couple of times…but then at least one or two reviewers say mids/vocals come through with great clarity. I’m gonna keep my expectations in check, but I’d love to be pleasantly surprised. M&D seem to make it easy enough to return if I don’t like them. In this crazy pandemic world, awfully fun to sit/walk around and try all these amazing sonic creations.
> Only downside is my wife getting pissed that I never hear her when she’s trying to get my attention.
> 
> Edit: I appreciate your differentiating between signature and quality…not sure but I’ve probably been conflating the two in my head…I’m knocking the SQ of PI7 when maybe it’s the signature I’m down on


I have them. They're great.  Build quality from M&D is always spot on.  Sound is pretty well balanced with a deep edge.  Which I like.  ANC isn't as good as my fav the Devialet by far.  I don't foresee them leaving my collection.  The Kevlar case and wifi charging sold me.  Not to mention the insane battery life.


----------



## erockg

BooleanBones said:


> I feel your pain  I have never tried their cans, but I do have a pair of the E8 v1s which I grew sour on.


Personally, I'd say the EQs are the best TWS B&O has made to date.


----------



## erockg

TK33 said:


> I suspect the differences in opinion regarding the MW08 have to do more with personal preferences when it comes to sound signature  than SQ.  My only experience is the MW07 Go and I really enjoy them for when I doing things around the house or working out although the M&D tuning was not my favorite. Also really like the physical buttons.  I do find them to be a bit V shaped for my taste and reports of even more bass on the MW08 is what kept me away since I knew that was not the type of sound signature I was looking for.  No complaints when it came to SQ though.  Will probably replace my MW07 Go whenever the next gen comes out though.


Totally agree.  It's all opinion.  I have the MW08S (I don't feel it's too bass heavy and the foam tips are great), B&O EQ, Klipsch T5 II ANC McLaren and Devialet Gemini on my desk and they're all so good.  Each one has its sparkle that sets one apart from the other.  If you have the cash, might as well try them all IMO.  But as I always say, if not, and you only want one, the Gemini are my #1 in that group.


----------



## scubaphish

erockg said:


> I have them. They're great.  Build quality from M&D is always spot on.  Sound is pretty well balance with a deep edge.  Which I like.  ANC isn't as good as my fav the Devialet by far.  I don't foresee them leaving my collection.  The Kevlar case and wifi charging sold me.  Not to mention the insane battery life.


I’m expecting a solid showdown between the T5, Gemini, and MW08. Priority is SQ and signature. Next is ANC. Don’t need an equalizer (have to spell that out now since there’s a product called EQ) if sound signature is right. Tbh I can live without wireless charging…Ive got wires around; also wouldn’t  be surprised if the pad I have is inefficient.


----------



## erockg

BooleanBones said:


> I've only seen general threads and not one specific like this one.


Most of us here have tried or own over-ears.  Happy to talk about it.


----------



## erockg

scubaphish said:


> I’m expecting a solid showdown between the T5, Gemini, and MW08. Priority is SQ and signature. Next is ANC. Don’t need an equalizer (have to spell that out now since there’s a product called EQ) if sound signature is right. Tbh I can live without wireless charging…Ive got wires around; also wouldn’t  be surprised if the pad I have is inefficient.


Definitely will be nice to hear your thoughts.  You'll have so much fun for sure!


----------



## CocaCola15

Sometimes it’s great to have deep pockets, not only in the figurative way, but in the actual way too. I thought I’d lost my Melomania 1+ BT phones case and all on a recent walk. Figured they fell put of my pocket reaching for my wallet or something. Today, four days later, I decided to check the pockets in my baggy shorts one last time. Voila! Way at the bottom. Hence, very happy to have deep pockets!


----------



## samandhi

CocaCola15 said:


> Sometimes it’s great to have deep pockets, not only in the figurative way, but in the actual way too. I thought I’d lost my Melomania 1+ BT phones case and all on a recent walk. Figured they fell put of my pocket reaching for my wallet or something. Today, four days later, I decided to check the pockets in my baggy shorts one last time. Voila! Way at the bottom. Hence, very happy to have deep pockets!


WOW! Those are _some _pockets.... With pockets that big, maybe you should just carry some full sized open backed planar headphones?!


----------



## scubaphish (Aug 21, 2021)

erockg said:


> Definitely will be nice to hear your thoughts.  You'll have so much fun for sure!


First impression of the Gemini…I think closer to what I hoped/expected the PI7 to be. It’s like loudspeakers in my ears. Strong bass, and the details in the mids and highs are fantastic.
No issues pairing either. Very comfortable, too. (Dare I say more so than the Klipsch). Very easy to set in my ears. Thanks for the recommendation

all that said, would you believe Amazon sent me an open box?  Replacement coming Monday , but come on!! Oh well l, back to music


----------



## CocaCola15 (Aug 21, 2021)

samandhi said:


> WOW! Those are _some _pockets.... With pockets that big, maybe you should just carry some full sized open backed planar headphones?!


Haha, I actually did a cursory check and just figured they were lost. After I changed. Rechecking just took me awhile. The they are deep pockets and the case is really small.


----------



## BooleanBones

CocaCola15 said:


> Haha, I actually did a cursory check and just figured they were lost. After I changed. Rechecking just took me awhile. The they are deep pockets abd the case is really small.


You shall forever be referred to as "Pockets" now  Glad you found them


----------



## erockg

scubaphish said:


> First impression of the Gemini…I think closer to what I hoped/expected the PI7 to be. It’s like loudspeakers in my ears. Strong bass, and the details in the mids and highs are fantastic.
> No issues pairing either. Very comfortable, too. (Dare I say more so than the Klipsch). Very easy to set in my ears. Thanks for the recommendation
> 
> all that said, would you believe Amazon sent me an open box?  Replacement coming Monday , but come on!! Oh well l, back to music


Yeah, they're pretty incredible.  Amazon has done that to me too before.  Frustrating, but they usually come through.


----------



## BooleanBones

scubaphish said:


> First impression of the Gemini…I think closer to what I hoped/expected the PI7 to be. It’s like loudspeakers in my ears. Strong bass, and the details in the mids and highs are fantastic.
> No issues pairing either. Very comfortable, too. (Dare I say more so than the Klipsch). Very easy to set in my ears. Thanks for the recommendation
> 
> all that said, would you believe Amazon sent me an open box?  Replacement coming Monday , but come on!! Oh well l, back to music


Do the Gemini's have proprietary tips like the Klipsch, or can you change them universally if you wish?


----------



## erockg

Universal


----------



## Tal00

Hello fellow Headfiers.
I could use some advice 
I just picked up a FiiO M11 Plus Ltd DAP. And I’m looking for the best in ear wireless headphones to take advantage of the superior Bluetooth codec capabilities offerings with this device.

I own the FiiO UTWS3 True Wireless Bluetooth Headphone Amplifier. And the Jabra Elite65t.
And I wonder if you think  if an 
upgrade is worth it.

Thanks in advance for the advice.

Tal

P.S. I have a bunch of headphones and IEMs. I’m looking for the best in-ear wireless sound possible. So I can get the best musical experience even when I’m loading the dishwasher for example

P.P.S. More snake oil?? https://www.goertek.com/en/content/details15_134224.html


----------



## BigZ12

scubaphish said:


> First impression of the Gemini…I think closer to what I hoped/expected the PI7 to be. It’s like loudspeakers in my ears. Strong bass, and the details in the mids and highs are fantastic.
> No issues pairing either. Very comfortable, too. (Dare I say more so than the Klipsch). Very easy to set in my ears. Thanks for the recommendation
> 
> all that said, would you believe Amazon sent me an open box?  Replacement coming Monday , but come on!! Oh well l, back to music


Found some reviews, and most of them has issues like for example these. Can you relate to them? Are some of them fixed by firmware upgrades? (Sound with ANC on/off)

- Performance with ANC switched off is poor
- Sound isn’t very expansive
- Touch controls could be better

- Audio suffers with ANC off
- Inconsistent touch controls

- Fit can come loose
- Baffling ‘Neutral’ mode

- Sound quality in ‘Neutral’ and ‘Transparency’ modes is just not good


----------



## scubaphish (Aug 22, 2021)

BigZ12 said:


> Found some reviews, and most of them has issues like for example these. Can you relate to them? Are some of them fixed by firmware upgrades? (Sound with ANC on/off)
> 
> - Performance with ANC switched off is poor
> - Sound isn’t very expansive
> ...


I read those also, was a little worried as I usually keep anc off unless in noisy environment (outside in City, subway, etc)

So far, whatever I felt was missing in neutral, Ive been able to add by adjusting the eq. It doesn’t sound “not good” at all. I think it sounds great, very clear, detailed, all instruments represented. Strumming of a guitar (pinball wizard playing right now), pull across a violin, very nice. Honestly, not sure I can speak to criticism of  “not expansive”. I can say music seems very full, and not just in my head. Like I said earlier, like loudspeakers in my ears.

touch controls seem fine. What bothers me most is switch from anc to transparency doesn’t include neutral. I don’t need volume on buds, usually have my watch on to control volume. All other basic controls are there.

Using iPhone 12. SiriusXM app and Apple Music lossless. Listening to classic rock, jazz, jam bands (phish, dead), r&b, reggae; both live and studio. Stock medium eartips. Get plenty loud. Passive noise cancel is really good, too.

very comfortable, don’t go as far into ear canal as Klipsch. Haven’t been outside with them yet, hurricane in NE and all, but nothing loose yet. In fact, feel pretty stable. Tried the Flossy head shake test too. One fell out last night, but that’s after falling asleep listening to music in the chair.

I like how app stays connected to earbuds even after swiping out of app (Klipsch for example needs to reconnect to app each time leave and go back to app)

ADD: has opportunity to use transparency, easy convo with my son.
also, battery drain very uneven. Was hoping I could swap which is master/support but Devialet faq say right side always master. Also seems as though have to keep case open if right bud is in there but want to use left side


----------



## tiagopinto

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Just hopped on to say goodbye. Maybe for a while, maybe permanently. Veterans on this forum need to change their tune.
> 
> I will not be attending CanJam and I will not be providing this site with any more content. I wish you all the best should you choose to stay here, but I can no longer support what Head-Fi has become.
> 
> Goodbye.



Say... what? I’ve not just read this... 

What the hell happened?

You are an integral part of this...


----------



## tiagopinto

erockg said:


> New addition arrived today.  They are gorgeous.  More soon.



Wow. This should be interesting.


----------



## EMINENT

erockg said:


> Totally agree.  It's all opinion.  I have the MW08S (I don't feel it's too bass heavy and the foam tips are great), B&O EQ, Klipsch T5 II ANC McLaren and Devialet Gemini on my desk and they're all so good.  Each one has its sparkle that sets one apart from the other.  If you have the cash, might as well try them all IMO.  But as I always say, if not, and you only want one, the Gemini are my #1 in that group.


I want to try the Devialet, but I just can't deal with that chonk of a case. Unforgiveable.
Maybe a second gen with LDAC, BT 5.2 and much smaller, pocketable case could bring me over.


----------



## alchemical

Another vote for the Gemini, hugely impressed. I’m a massive B&W fan so thoroughly expected the PI7 to be my preferred TW but they’ve barely gotten a look in since getting the Devialet. Thanks to all who recommended on here.


----------



## scubaphish (Aug 22, 2021)

EMINENT said:


> I want to try the Devialet, but I just can't deal with that chonk of a case. Unforgiveable.
> Maybe a second gen with LDAC, BT 5.2 and much smaller, pocketable case could bring me over.


I felt the same way about the case. Now that I’m listening to them, I think it’s a logistical issue I can deal with.


----------



## EMINENT

Does anyone on Samsung or Android utilize the listening test profile to boost frequencies or how do you feel about it? If I am not able to hear those and they are being boosted, should it or is this altering the sound too much?


----------



## scubaphish (Aug 22, 2021)

BooleanBones said:


> Do the Gemini's have proprietary tips like the Klipsch, or can you change them universally if you wish?


Trying out the Finals on the Gemini. They fit and are more open at driver than the stock.

I do find it interesting that both B&W and Devialet run something across the driver, foam or rubber grate, while the Finals are just open. Hope not bad for driver unit to be so exposed. It does seem as though Gemini have a metal grate at tip of nozzle
(Maybe inner monologue?)


----------



## echoleaf

DigDub said:


> Size comparison between Sony 1000xm3, APP and Panasonic rz-s500w.


What did you replace the stock Panasonic tips with?


----------



## smith

scubaphish said:


> Trying out the Finals on the Gemini. They fit and are more open at driver than the stock.
> 
> I do find it interesting that both B&W and Devialet run something across the driver, foam or rubber grate, while the Finals are just open. Hope not bad for driver unit to be so exposed. It does seem as though Gemini have a metal grate at tip of nozzle
> (Maybe inner monologue?)


I use JVC spiral dot (M) tips  with my Geminis ..sounds really good.


----------



## cresny

EMINENT said:


> I want to try the Devialet, but I just can't deal with that chonk of a case. Unforgiveable.
> Maybe a second gen with LDAC, BT 5.2 and much smaller, pocketable case could bring me over.



I think it's great that the Gemini is finally getting some due props. These days I think we're all inclined to dismiss things like EAM or IDC as mere "hackronymns" but Devialet's Ear Active Matching and Internal Delay Compensation might actually be some pretty amazing technology, not just "tuning" (as it's all-too-often put here). These innovations probably require some physical space to do their thing and then there's the proprietary 10mm driver, so the size of the buds is probably non-negotiable. The case might be able to be shrunk a slight amount, but with the battery and wireless charging I trust Devialet did the best they could.

As for LDAC, these get maybe 4 hours with apt-x and ANC. So maybe BT 5.2 will help (?) butI guess what we have is the current state of the art for now.


----------



## TK33

EMINENT said:


> I want to try the Devialet, but I just can't deal with that chonk of a case. Unforgiveable.
> Maybe a second gen with LDAC, BT 5.2 and much smaller, pocketable case could bring me over.


I am the same way. I wanted to try it but realized how big the case was and that I would never use it since I could never fit it in my pockets with 2 phones, keys, hand sanitizer, Benchmade Mini grip, mask, ID wallet.  PI7 case barely fits and sometimes I just take my Galaxy Buds Live for portability and calls instead.  For me TWS is about convenience and if I need to go digging through a bag to use it, it probably isnt getting used.  For home and office, I use wired (and sometimes a Qudelix 5K when I need to walk around).


----------



## helmutcheese

£69.99 + £20 off till end of today (Sunday).

Not ideal as no Skip Back Track but going to try them for sleeping, if ANC is like SoundPeats T2's I be happy but need better battery life (actual not claimed) than those.

GameSky did a review back in 2020 but these claim to be BT 5.2 so may be a newer revision or his specs were wrong as he claimed BT 5.0.





*https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B08LN1J229*


----------



## dweaver

Hmmmm, I can get the Audiofly AFT2 for $99CAD right now, that's about $77US. Tempting, I have a feeling it would be similar to the CA Touch for sound minus the APP and ANC. I need it like a hole in the head but very tempting...


----------



## jant71

dweaver said:


> Hmmmm, I can get the Audiofly AFT2 for $99CAD right now, that's about $77US. Tempting, I have a feeling it would be similar to the CA Touch for sound minus the APP and ANC. I need it like a hole in the head but very tempting...


The connection is sub par and they don't seem to have long term reliability.


----------



## Tommy C (Aug 22, 2021)

dweaver said:


> Hmmmm, I can get the Audiofly AFT2 for $99CAD right now, that's about $77US. Tempting, I have a feeling it would be similar to the CA Touch for sound minus the APP and ANC. I need it like a hole in the head but very tempting...



Saw them at Visions. Sadly Audiofly went belly up 
So this means no post sale support or warranty unless Visions will back it up.


----------



## dweaver (Aug 22, 2021)

damn, wish you hadn't said that  I bought a pair... LOL

So, I can't speak on the issues you mentioned and sure hope I don't run into them.

Sound wise these are a bit on the warm side but not to the point of being dark. It's a nice sound, I will be watching in case they go on sale in the next bit as I can force them to honor the sale price for the next 30 days which would make them more of a bargain to help offset any potential issues.

The included tips (all 2 pairs!) suck. So I slipped on the ever trusty Sony Hybrid tips and perfect fit. The shell design is super super comfy but does stick out of the ear so won't be usable for side sleeping. I will take them for a run and see how they fair in that fashion.

The case is big but kinda neat with the pull out tray. I have read they are not super loud which means nothing to me since I rarely listen at loud volumes. (Currently listening at just below 50%)

They are certainly not worth their full retail but at $77US or lower they might be a good option for anyone wanting something more geared to sound than features.

As I have been typing up this post I have been listening to several songs and they have a slightly elevated bass that go deep in the sub-bass region but it's done very nicely without out having to much mid-bass.

The midrange allows strings to have a nice sound to them, violins in particular sound very nice. Brass instruments also sound good.

The treble is a bit soft but not Sony level soft so has some sparkle to it. Listening to Patricia Barber I hear decent cymbals, decay is slightly rolled off but not to the point where I feel like I am missing to much detail.

I have also gone for a run mid post and while these have no ANC the passive noise cancelling is very good, to the point it was eerily quiet while running. Footfalls are as good as the Samsung which is better than most IEMs in this regard.

These are easily the most comfortable TWS I have tried. Much better than other other Audiofly products I have tried in the past and better than Samsung, Sony, Sennheiser, Technics, Status Between Pro, Anker, etc. The fit might not work for everyone though but I love the fit.


----------



## dweaver (Aug 22, 2021)

Tommy C said:


> Saw them at Visions. Sadly Audiofly went belly up
> So this means no post sale support or warranty unless Visions will back it up.


Damn again, I liked Audiofly, but doesn't surprise me. That's where I bought them BTW. OK. Now I really hope they go on sale though so I can get them at even a lower price. But they really do sound good and they are comfy as all get out.


----------



## regancipher

I know this thread tends to focus on premium TWS, but I've reviewed quite a few ultra-low budget sets recently, worth a look if you're on a shoestring budget. I posted a few of these about 10 pages back, but have added a few more. Enjoy!

QCY T11
FIIL CC Pro
Edifier NeoBuds Pro
Tronsmart Apollo Air
SoundPEATS TrueAir2+
Tronsmart Onyx Apex


----------



## darveniza

Picked up a pair of Shanling MTW200 for $89 in black, I received them and had them charging but had not used. Had to go out to run some errands and just decided to take them as the case is very very slim. I would consider this case and the Vivo TWS 2 small case the most pocket friendly.

In any case , they fit like a glove with effortless deep insertion. Started to hear music and was surprised as they sound pretty pretty pretty good . Bass is plentiful with a great sub bass , mids are awesome in my opinion and the treble is sweet. Was playing a generic Spotify playlist, so a lot of new music but these little things just were doing their magic.

No app, just take out of case and play. 

That was 4 hours ago, still listening to a series of test songs and they outperform some of the other high-end brands. The comfort is amazing, I cannot wear the Sony XM4 for more than 90 minutes.

For the price, I would recommend that if you are looking for pocket friendly TWS with great great sound give these a try.


----------



## assassin10000

Kinda like the design on these. Tips remind me of bose.


----------



## clerkpalmer

Whelp, this is the second time my t5 anc have been found completely dead after a charge. Probably used them 4 days ago but they were fully charged and so was the case. Both are dead today. First time I thought it may have been user error. Guess they need to go back.


----------



## scubaphish

clerkpalmer said:


> Whelp, this is the second time my t5 anc have been found completely dead after a charge. Probably used them 4 days ago but they were fully charged and so was the case. Both are dead today. First time I thought it may have been user error. Guess they need to go back.


Downvote 👎 
Sorry, that stinks


----------



## erockg

clerkpalmer said:


> Whelp, this is the second time my t5 anc have been found completely dead after a charge. Probably used them 4 days ago but they were fully charged and so was the case. Both are dead today. First time I thought it may have been user error. Guess they need to go back.


Very strange.  I haven't used mine in two days... everything is at 100%.  It's got to be an anomaly.


----------



## SynaestheticA

Firevortex said:


> what tips are you using? did you get the foam tips from Earspan? they changed the sound signature of the N10 pro quite a bit. my initial review of the N10 pro was similar to yours with bass lacking. but their sound stage is not just 3d warping around the head but wide as in vocals etc are projecting further outside the head. there is also EQ option to boost up the bass in APP which is plenty.


I was using the foams that came with them, not a huge fan of the short stumpy foam tip but did notice a decent difference in sound sig. That's a good point about the projection of vocals outside of the head. And I didn't mess around with the bass EQ. So perhaps there are some things I should be doing differently. I think the extra energy in the N6 Pro 2 is probably what leans me towards them.


----------



## clerkpalmer

erockg said:


> Very strange.  I haven't used mine in two days... everything is at 100%.  It's got to be an anomaly.


Something is causing drain. Not sure why. Will start with an exchange.


----------



## dweaver (Aug 23, 2021)

Have to say I am enjoying the heck out of the Audiofly AFT2. I really hope they go on sale so I can force them to match the price, if they do I am tempted to buy a second pair as a backup because of how good they sound.

In Canada we have a heck of a time getting any good deals on this kind of stuff and this IEM sounds as good anything I have owned and fits awesome at least for my ears, so I am glad I took a chance on a pair.

One thing though, with the right tips these isolate like crazy so they really could have used an ambient mode. Still in comparison to models like the Sennheiser 400BT these definitely are a solid competitor sound a feature wise.


----------



## Caipirina (Aug 23, 2021)

assassin10000 said:


> Kinda like the design on these. Tips remind me of bose.


Wonder how they stay without wings

PS: easy to confuse with the Oppo Enco W11


----------



## Spie1904 (Aug 23, 2021)

erockg said:


> Totally agree.  It's all opinion.  I have the MW08S (I don't feel it's too bass heavy and the foam tips are great), B&O EQ, Klipsch T5 II ANC McLaren and Devialet Gemini on my desk and they're all so good.  Each one has its sparkle that sets one apart from the other.  If you have the cash, might as well try them all IMO.  But as I always say, if not, and you only want one, the Gemini are my #1 in that group.


Do you think the Gemini fit tiny ears? I have no way to demo but I have really small concha area and ear canals so the usual suspects like Sony WF 1000xm4 will definitely not be comfortable. Even AirPods Pro’s are a slight bit uncomfortable?
Edit: would these be ok to use during a workout at home gym? Don’t need max isolation but needs to be able to withstand some sweat I guess!


----------



## scubaphish (Aug 23, 2021)

Not the best picture, admittedly, but looks like the driver/nozzle is 0.5 cm across, oval shaped. Hope that helps

and 33 mm long…edit, think that should be 33cm


----------



## Spie1904

scubaphish said:


> Not the best picture, admittedly, but looks like the driver/nozzle is 0.5 cm across, oval shaped. Hope that helps
> 
> and 33 mm long


Thank you!


----------



## scubaphish

TK33 said:


> Something interesting about ANC I noticed yesterday when I was walking in the city with my PI7s was that the ANC actually eliminates the foot thumping sound quite a bit.  Didnt notice it until I turned ANC off (I was trying to catch my train at Penn so I was walking pretty fast).  Is that typical of ANC? I was always more of a passive isolation guy since ANC does give me the pressure feeling and a bit of a headache. Thumping noise was pretty bad with ANC off. Maybe I just gave weird ears.


Fwiw I found my footsteps were muted with ANC on while walking my dog


----------



## erockg

Spie1904 said:


> Do you think the Gemini fit tiny ears? I have no way to demo but I have really small concha area and ear canals so the usual suspects like Sony WF 1000xm4 will definitely not be comfortable. Even AirPods Pro’s are a slight bit uncomfortable?
> Edit: would these be ok to use during a workout at home gym? Don’t need max isolation but needs to be able to withstand some sweat I guess!


From what you're saying above, they may not be the buds for you.  IMO, they're mostly a sit at home and enjoy music type of bud, not a workout bud.  If AirPods pro are uncomfortable, sadly the Devialet are much bigger than them.


----------



## scubaphish

alchemical said:


> Another vote for the Gemini, hugely impressed. I’m a massive B&W fan so thoroughly expected the PI7 to be my preferred TW but they’ve barely gotten a look in since getting the Devialet. Thanks to all who recommended on here.


Have you tried the MW08 (compared to Gemini)?  I’m thinking of trying those next so of course interested in getting as much feedback from this forum as I can. Thanks


----------



## scubaphish

erockg said:


> Definitely will be nice to hear your thoughts.  You'll have so much fun for sure!


I think I’m sending the T5 II ANC back; still in return period. I’m enjoying the Devialet way too much to think I’d go back to the Klipsch. I know I can eq it out, but some sibilant S on some tracks is enough to drop them out of contention. I think it’s going to be one little thing here or there that becomes the deciding factor as I go through to find the right set.
Yeah, having fun


----------



## erockg

scubaphish said:


> I think I’m sending the T5 II ANC back; still in return period. I’m enjoying the Devialet way too much to think I’d go back to the Klipsch. I know I can eq it out, but some sibilant S on some tracks is enough to drop them out of contention. I think it’s going to be one little thing here or there that becomes the deciding factor as I go through to find the right set.
> Yeah, having fun


Ha ha! Sadly, they're still in my rotation... I'll keep them.  Between them, the Devialet, B&O, and M&Ds all day, I'm just enjoying the ride like you.  I like to keep switching out.  B&O today, Devialet earlier etc.  WFH life, sigh...


----------



## scubaphish

erockg said:


> Ha ha! Sadly, they're still in my rotation... I'll keep them.  Between them, the Devialet, B&O, and M&Ds all day, I'm just enjoying the ride like you.  I like to keep switching out.  B&O today, Devialet earlier etc.  WFH life, sigh...


I still want to try the Sony and M&D…and can’t leave Melomania Touch out of the competition. Way too much respect given to that product on the board. I’m thinking of giving to my wife anyway. She’s not loving the APP fit. Hoping these work for her, although I think first time with wings. Hoping nice fit


----------



## BooleanBones

scubaphish said:


> I still want to try the Sony and M&D…and can’t leave Melomania Touch out of the competition. Way too much respect given to that product on the board. I’m thinking of giving to my wife anyway. She’s not loving the APP fit. Hoping these work for her, although I think first time with wings. Hoping nice fit


Wings on the MT? If so, they can be removed if none of the sizes provided fit. I found the MTs to be one of if not the most comfortable out of all of the TWS I have. They are not for everyone though as I have read.


----------



## erockg

scubaphish said:


> I still want to try the Sony and M&D…and can’t leave Melomania Touch out of the competition. Way too much respect given to that product on the board. I’m thinking of giving to my wife anyway. She’s not loving the APP fit. Hoping these work for her, although I think first time with wings. Hoping nice fit


I've tried the Sonys.  I just didn't like the sound compared to all the others in my lot.  ANC is just awesome on them though.  But not at good as the Devialet.  Had the MT too.  They're okay.  I liked the sound but they had so many bugs when I had them.  Bought them when they had the first major firmware update.  For me, I felt the higher-end stuff were better, but definitely worth a shot to try them.


----------



## erockg

BooleanBones said:


> Wings on the MT? If so, they can be removed if none of the sizes provided fit. I found the MTs to be one of if not the most comfortable out of all of the TWS I have. They are not for everyone though as I have read.


I was one of those who had bugs and fit issues .  Sound was great though.


----------



## BooleanBones

erockg said:


> I was one of those who had bugs and fit issues .  Sound was great though.


Yep, they are in a bit different class too. They got most of the quirkiness worked out it seems, but they are pure music makers for sure. No features like the others other than ambient sound. I bet they got something new in the pipeline, but who knows.


----------



## scubaphish (Aug 23, 2021)

erockg said:


> I've tried the Sonys.  I just didn't like the sound compared to all the others in my lot.  ANC is just awesome on them though.  But not at good as the Devialet.  Had the MT too.  They're okay.  I liked the sound but they had so many bugs when I had them.  Bought them when they had the first major firmware update.  For me, I felt the higher-end stuff were better, but definitely worth a shot to try them.


I’d say I have lowest expectations for the Sony anyway. Just read so many “official reviews” of them that they’re the gold standard. Seems like it would make my process most complete to listen to them 😁


----------



## scubaphish

BooleanBones said:


> Yep, they are in a bit different class too. They got most of the quirkiness worked out it seems, but they are pure music makers for sure. No features like the others other than ambient sound. I bet they got something new in the pipeline, but who knows.


my wife never uses any of the features anyway; just wants to listen to music and podcasts comfortably and with quality sound.


----------



## erockg

scubaphish said:


> I’d say I have lowest expectations for the Sony anyway. Just read so many “official reviews” of them that their the gold standard. Seems like it would make my process most complete to listen to them 😁


Def worth a try.  They're much smaller than the last gen.  Fit was nice for me.  But now that you've tried the others, you'll see


----------



## erockg

scubaphish said:


> my wife never uses any of the features anyway; just wants to listen to music and podcasts comfortably and with quality sound.


Mine is still using first gen AirPods.  She wants to upgrade because the battery has degraded over time.  I try so hard to shoehorn/suggest in a better pair, but alas, we'll most likely be getting her APP, or dare I say, the same exact AirPods!  Sigh...


----------



## erockg

BooleanBones said:


> Yep, they are in a bit different class too. They got most of the quirkiness worked out it seems, but they are pure music makers for sure. No features like the others other than ambient sound. I bet they got something new in the pipeline, but who knows.


I agree.  Too many blowout sales on the M1+ and the Touch.  Something is going on for sure.  Okay, we can dream.


----------



## alchemical

scubaphish said:


> Have you tried the MW08 (compared to Gemini)?  I’m thinking of trying those next so of course interested in getting as much feedback from this forum as I can. Thanks


I haven’t - the MW08 Sport are actually next on my wish list, particularly as I need some new TW for running. So I’ve been enjoying any feedback I can get my hands on here too!


----------



## DJ XtAzY

scubaphish said:


> Ordered the MT. Now I’ve got the Gemini, MT, and XM4 on the way…while enjoying the T5. The MW08 and Kef are all that’s left to order (already tried the PI7). The MW08 really seem to have to different experiences on this board.


Also looking forward to your impressions between all three. I recently lost one of my MT earpiece and now that they're available on Amazon again, I'm debating whether I want to get another MT, or try the Gemini. Are there any comparisons between MT and Gemini in terms of the sound (don't really care for ANC)? Are the sound similar?


----------



## clerkpalmer

DJ XtAzY said:


> Also looking forward to your impressions between all three. I recently lost one of my MT earpiece and now that they're available on Amazon again, I'm debating whether I want to get another MT, or try the Gemini. Are there any comparisons between MT and Gemini in terms of the sound (don't really care for ANC)? Are the sound similar?


I think the signatures are similar yes. But the Gemini takes all the good things about the MT and turns them up to 11. You will get more treble sparkle in the Gemini.


----------



## scubaphish

alchemical said:


> I haven’t - the MW08 Sport are actually next on my wish list, particularly as I need some new TW for running. So I’ve been enjoying any feedback I can get my hands on here too!


I can at least share what I saw on the PI7 board from someone named Tenlow (not sure about board practices on @ someone)

“I can only encourage more people to try the new Master&Dynamic MW08 Sport. They've been a real surprise for me and the ones I will keep in the end over the MTW2, WF-1000XM4 and PI7. Not sure why there is no individual thread on them tbh.”


----------



## erockg

I will say one thing, I was just on a work Zoom call for 2.5 hours.  Yes, feel my pain.  I wore the M&D MW08S and folks said I didn't sound as good as with the Devialet by far.  Not the first time either.  So, for sound, the MW08S are great.  For calls, your mileage may vary.


----------



## BooleanBones

erockg said:


> I will say one thing, I was just on a work Zoom call for 2.5 hours.  Yes, feel my pain.  I wore the M&D MW08S and folks said I didn't sound as good as with the Devialet by far.  Not the first time either.  So, for sound, the MW08S are great.  For calls, your mileage may vary.


I feel your pain on conference calls. 8-10 hours a day for me


----------



## erockg

BooleanBones said:


> I feel your pain on conference calls. 8-10 hours a day for me


I refuse to like this post!


----------



## Tenlow

erockg said:


> I will say one thing, I was just on a work Zoom call for 2.5 hours.  Yes, feel my pain.  I wore the M&D MW08S and folks said I didn't sound as good as with the Devialet by far.  Not the first time either.  So, for sound, the MW08S are great.  For calls, your mileage may vary.


My mileage does indeed vary  They have the best call quality for me after any form of Airpods. I use the APM every day for my conference calls, mind you, but still I used the MW08S for several calls already and everybody said I sounded very good.


----------



## erockg

Tenlow said:


> My mileage does indeed vary  They have the best call quality for me after any form of Airpods. I use the APM every day for my conference calls, mind you, but still I used the MW08S for several calls already and everybody said I sounded very good.


Very strange.  You're lucky.  Three people just called me out on a Zoom.  But this is after I put in the Devialets and they instantly said I sounded clearer.  I've also been having a strange issue for the last 24 hours with the MW08S whereas the Right earbud randomly reboots.  It's happened three times.  I'll try a hard reset.


----------



## Tenlow

erockg said:


> Very strange.  You're lucky.  Three people just called me out on a Zoom.  But this is after I put in the Devialets and they instantly said I sounded clearer.  I've also been having a strange issue for the last 24 hours with the MW08S whereas the Right earbud randomly reboots.  It's happened three times.  I'll try a hard reset.


Hope yours don't have a defect! I'm very happy with mine  Have not heard the Devialets and don't plan to - I have tested so many TWS these last couple of weeks and was glad to have found the ones I'm settling with...for..now 😂


----------



## erockg

Tenlow said:


> Hope yours don't have a defect! I'm very happy with mine  Have not heard the Devialets and don't plan to - I have tested so many TWS these last couple of weeks and was glad to have found the ones I'm settling with...for..now 😂


Yep, I’ve tried them too many.  Mostly high-end ones.  It’s an expensive addiction lol.


----------



## Tommy C

erockg said:


> Mine is still using first gen AirPods.  She wants to upgrade because the battery has degraded over time.  I try so hard to shoehorn/suggest in a better pair, but alas, we'll most likely be getting her APP, or dare I say, the same exact AirPods!  Sigh...



I have the Fiil CC2 coming in next week they might be a worthy replacement sq wise. I’ll share impressions after using them for a few days.


----------



## rhsauer

Tenlow said:


> Hope yours don't have a defect! I'm very happy with mine  Have not heard the Devialets and don't plan to - I have tested so many TWS these last couple of weeks and was glad to have found the ones I'm settling with...for..now 😂


The microphones on my MW08s stopped working well, but a little compressed air seems to have fixed the problem.


----------



## clerkpalmer

erockg said:


> I will say one thing, I was just on a work Zoom call for 2.5 hours.  Yes, feel my pain.  I wore the M&D MW08S and folks said I didn't sound as good as with the Devialet by far.  Not the first time either.  So, for sound, the MW08S are great.  For calls, your mileage may vary.


Any reason to believe that the mw08 sport has a different sound profile than the regular mw08?


----------



## Tenlow

clerkpalmer said:


> Any reason to believe that the mw08 sport has a different sound profile than the regular mw08?


Not officially at least. However, but that may be subjective, my MW08S seem to work better for calls than my MW08 did. There is nothing to prove that, though, so it may be my imagination


----------



## clerkpalmer

Tenlow said:


> Not officially at least. However, but that may be subjective, my MW08S seem to work better for calls than my MW08 did. There is nothing to prove that, though, so it may be my imagination


Thanks. Just wondering is they may have secretly tweaked the tuning. Does not sound likely.


----------



## scubaphish (Aug 24, 2021)

BigZ12 said:


> Found some reviews, and most of them has issues like for example these. Can you relate to them? Are some of them fixed by firmware upgrades? (Sound with ANC on/off)
> 
> - Performance with ANC switched off is poor
> - Sound isn’t very expansive
> ...


Further listening, yeah I guess music sounds fuller with ANC on. I think neutral still sounds good and can be eq’d but I can see/hear where critics are coming from. Any other Devialet users can chime in if I’m just mishearing; it’s entirely possible

ADD: this reviewer’s take on how ANC impacts sound is pretty solid.


----------



## Tenlow

clerkpalmer said:


> Thanks. Just wondering is they may have secretly tweaked the tuning. Does not sound likely.


No, it doesn't, I agree. As far as sound quality goes, it is also exactly the same.


----------



## BigZ12 (Aug 24, 2021)

I will get my blue MW08 Sport today. Hopefully it will be my preferred set, cause I want to sell my MTW2, Pureplay Z7 and XM4s.
Will update with my findings later.

- Bored of the MTW2, but they are actually my go to pair, along with the versatile Airpods Pro, mostly due to the total package and fit. (EDIT: I also think they sound better than before with the latest firmware)
- XM4 sounds better than the MTW2, but I can never get a decent fit. With almost every silicone tip I get noise from the left ear while chewing etc.. I also get better ANC with the MTW2, also due to fit I guess.
- Pureplay Z7 are good, fit is great even if they stick out of the ear a bit. Hearthrough is not great, and they sound a bit too dull/dark/warm for my taste.

Tips I have and tested with all my TWSs: All stock tips (that's a lot  ), several types of Spinfits, Final E Type, JVC spiral dots, a lot of different Comply Foams, Flexifit Foam etc

PS: Best tip experience for all my TWSs: ePro horn shaped tips AP00 for Airpods Pro.


----------



## alchemical

scubaphish said:


> Further listening, yeah I guess music sounds fuller with ANC on. I think neutral still sounds good and can be eq’d but I can see/hear where critics are coming from. Any other Devialet users can chime in if I’m just mishearing; it’s entirely possible



Agreed, music does sound fuller on the Geminis with ANC on. In neutral it’s by no means bad, but it misses body in comparison.


----------



## DigDub

echoleaf said:


> What did you replace the stock Panasonic tips with?


The accoustune aet07 tips.


----------



## BobJS

I've got the MT - black coming in tomorrow, now that they're back in stock in US.  Ordered direct from CA/US rather than Amazon, though, to save the tax.


----------



## BigZ12

https://www.oneplus.com/no/oneplus-buds-pro
Anyone tested these?


----------



## cresny

scubaphish said:


> Further listening, yeah I guess music sounds fuller with ANC on. I think neutral still sounds good and can be eq’d but I can see/hear where critics are coming from. Any other Devialet users can chime in if I’m just mishearing; it’s entirely possible
> 
> ADD: this reviewer’s take on how ANC impacts sound is pretty solid.




This is interesting. I did concur with the reviews about the Neutral setting sounding worse, but like them I guess I never considered it was mostly the volume drop from the ANC boosted dynamics. One of the reasons I wanted ANC was to preserve my damaged hearing after having endured decades of city life without it, so I really appreciated how -- with ANC -- the dynamics and nuances come through at a lower volumes. I'll continue to listen that way but I can also now appreciate how the "different" non-ANC sound might actually work better for certain genres, albeit with some EQ tweaks.


----------



## clerkpalmer

Giving the mw08 another try. Since I am impatient, I went with the black non sport version with the matte black case from Amazon. The sports are not yet available on Amazon for another week and I might die if I don’t get them by tomorrow …. Will decide between them and the Klipsch ANC before returning.


----------



## clerkpalmer

cresny said:


> This is interesting. I did concur with the reviews about the Neutral setting sounding worse, but like them I guess I never considered it was mostly the volume drop from the ANC boosted dynamics. One of the reasons I wanted ANC was to preserve my damaged hearing after having endured decades of city life without it, so I really appreciated how -- with ANC -- the dynamics and nuances come through at a lower volumes. I'll continue to listen that way but I can also now appreciate how the "different" non-ANC sound might actually work better for certain genres, albeit with some EQ tweaks.


huge believer in ANC to preserve hearing loss. Lifelong tinnitus sufferer hear. Anything that allows more moderate volumes is a win for me. This is probably as important to me as actually blocking out sound.


----------



## erockg

M&D Sale on some good stuff.  Sadly, not the MW08s.  

https://www.masterdynamic.com/colle...xrNeXUtKUaGf4SKoN5UmQv87vYojULgi3E6S8=.LYT4m6


----------



## scubaphish (Aug 24, 2021)

clerkpalmer said:


> Giving the mw08 another try. Since I am impatient, I went with the black non sport version with the matte black case from Amazon. The sports are not yet available on Amazon for another week and I might die if I don’t get them by tomorrow …. Will decide between them and the Klipsch ANC before returning.


I feel your sense of impatience. I ordered directly from M&D because Amazon had them back ordered on Friday…(my how quickly things change) and they’ve been assigned a tracking number but that’s as far as they’ve gotten. Good luck

I will say I’m spoiled at the moment anyway (understatement I know) with the Devialet, but I’m really looking forward to comparing them.


----------



## erockg

clerkpalmer said:


> Giving the mw08 another try. Since I am impatient, I went with the black non sport version with the matte black case from Amazon. The sports are not yet available on Amazon for another week and I might die if I don’t get them by tomorrow …. Will decide between them and the Klipsch ANC before returning.


I know my pick, but looking forward to your thoughts.


----------



## clerkpalmer

scubaphish said:


> I feel your sense of impatience. I ordered directly from M&D because Amazon had them back ordered on Friday…(my how quickly things change) and they’ve been assigned a tracking number but that’s as far as they’ve gotten. Good luck
> 
> I will say I’m spoiled at the moment anyway (understatement I know) with the Devialet, but I’m dying to compare them.


If you are on the east coast, ordering from M&D is like an 8 to 10 day process. Simply unacceptable.


----------



## scubaphish

clerkpalmer said:


> If you are on the east coast, ordering from M&D is like an 8 to 10 day process. Simply unacceptable.


holy moly...that's nuts. thanks for the insight. Maybe I can still cancel it and order from Amazon...even that says Monday delivery if I buy today.  Oh well...patience, virtue, all that jazz (he tells himself)


----------



## clerkpalmer

scubaphish said:


> holy moly...that's nuts. thanks for the insight. Maybe I can still cancel it and order from Amazon...even that says Monday delivery if I buy today.  Oh well...patience, virtue, all that jazz (he tells himself)


Probably not.  I tried once before and they said once processed orders cant cancel.


----------



## scubaphish

clerkpalmer said:


> Probably not.  I tried once before and they said once processed orders cant cancel.


D'oh!


----------



## erockg

clerkpalmer said:


> Probably not.  I tried once before and they said once processed orders cant cancel.


I'm in Los Angeles and I got my MW08S in a day.  Shipped Fed Ex Home delivery with signature confirmation.  It's odd, because I think M&D is based in NY.  They must have a warehouse out here.


----------



## scubaphish

erockg said:


> I'm in Los Angeles and I got my MW08S in a day.  Shipped Fed Ex Home delivery with signature confirmation.  It's odd, because I think M&D is based in NY.  They must have a warehouse out here.


I had same thought, figured NYC co would get to me in a day...must come in from China, and then storage in Southern Cali for US distribution.


----------



## BooleanBones (Aug 24, 2021)

erockg said:


> I'm in Los Angeles and I got my MW08S in a day.  Shipped Fed Ex Home delivery with signature confirmation.  It's odd, because I think M&D is based in NY.  They must have a warehouse out here.


Yeah, they are HQd in NY. Too funny. Think a lot of folks use Ontario DCs as a hub since it's so close to the airport.


----------



## scubaphish

Anyone with Klipsch T5 II ANC want to try the foam tips?  I’m sure Klipsch would send to you if you ask, but I happen to have a pair I won’t be using. Happy to drop in mail if anyone interested


----------



## scubaphish (Aug 24, 2021)

clerkpalmer said:


> huge believer in ANC to preserve hearing loss. Lifelong tinnitus sufferer hear. Anything that allows more moderate volumes is a win for me. This is probably as important to me as actually blocking out sound.


I’ve been using iOS 15 beta and I received 2 warnings for listening to music too loudly for too long. Have any iOS users seen the below in control center, tells you volume db real time?


----------



## BooleanBones

scubaphish said:


> I’ve been using iOS 15 beta and I received 2 warnings for listening to music too loudly for too long. Have any iOS users seen the below in control center, tells you volume db real time?


It may reach out and punch me then  They have some headphone safety features in 14 as well, but I have not enabled them. Not quite as detailed as what you have displayed though.


----------



## clerkpalmer

scubaphish said:


> I’ve been using iOS 15 beta and I received 2 warnings for listening to music too loudly for too long. Have any iOS users seen the below in control center, tells you volume db real time?


I have used this as well however it is not as accurate for third-party headphones as it does not know the sensitivity of the headphone.  It's just a guess.


----------



## clerkpalmer

erockg said:


> I'm in Los Angeles and I got my MW08S in a day.  Shipped Fed Ex Home delivery with signature confirmation.  It's odd, because I think M&D is based in NY.  They must have a warehouse out here.


Yep.  Based in NYC.  Returns go to NYC.  But orders come from the west coast.  It's not the west coast that's the problem, its using UPS Ground from the west coast is 5 days.  FedEx Ground is a little better.  USPS priority would be the best (and the cheapest) but no one seems to use them.  Add a day or two to process and you're waiting a week easy.


----------



## scubaphish

clerkpalmer said:


> Yep.  Based in NYC.  Returns go to NYC.  But orders come from the west coast.  It's not the west coast that's the problem, its using UPS Ground from the west coast is 5 days.  FedEx Ground is a little better.  USPS priority would be the best (and the cheapest) but no one seems to use them.  Add a day or two to process and you're waiting a week easy.


What seems weird to me is they assigned it a shipping label yesterday…FedEx told me. They just need to hand it to them. Just hand it to the same guy you hand the West Coast orders to. 🤣
But hey, maybe they start processing with the end state


----------



## bladefd

Getting replacement MT tomorrow after sending in my other one for RMA. Hopefully this one doesn't have any issues!


----------



## scubaphish

BooleanBones said:


> It may reach out and punch me then  They have some headphone safety features in 14 as well, but I have not enabled them. Not quite as detailed as what you have displayed though.


Ha! Didn’t punch me but I got 2 separate warnings on my watch. Must have been weekly summaries


----------



## scubaphish

clerkpalmer said:


> I have used this as well however it is not as accurate for third-party headphones as it does not know the sensitivity of the headphone.  It's just a guess.


Interesting. Still, better data than I had before. What can the variance be?


----------



## clerkpalmer

scubaphish said:


> Interesting. Still, better data than I had before. What can the variance be?



from apple:


Collect headphone audio levels​Connect AirPods, EarPods, and other compatible headphones to your iPhone. The headphone audio levels are automatically sent to Health.
To help improve the accuracy of headphone audio measurements for third-party Bluetooth devices, you should classify them as headphones, speakers, or other devices (iOS 14.4 or later). See Classify your Bluetooth device.
Note: Measurements are most accurate when using Apple or Beats headphones. Audio played through other headphones can be estimated based on the volume of your iPhone.


----------



## tinyman392

scubaphish said:


> I’ve been using iOS 15 beta and I received 2 warnings for listening to music too loudly for too long. Have any iOS users seen the below in control center, tells you volume db real time?


Unless you're running with AirPods or Beats, it's only going to be an estimate.  But make sure to go into the Bluetooth settings, get more info for the BT device you have connected and tell it whether it's a headphone, speaker, car, or other.  This existed in iOS 14 as well if I'm not mistaken since I had gotten the warning for using an external BT amplifier with the iPhone.  I had the iPhone set to 100% volume with the amp putting out a fraction on it's volume knob.  iPhone thought I was playing at 120 dB or something  iOS 15 does have the realtime display of estimated volume in control center which is really nice IMO, but it's still an estimate.


----------



## BigZ12 (Aug 24, 2021)

M&D MW08S - Thoughts after a couple of hours use.

Pros:
- Beautiful looks and build quality.
- Case also looks and feels great, ok size but still the XM4 and APP case is way smaller (and lighter).
- Sound is good, better than Z7 and MTW2 I think, but not spectacular (tested with Foam L and the pre mounted silicone tip).
- They fit me very good and are comfortable to wear.
- I like the buttons, and they control everything. Also volume and ANC/Ambient on/off.
- AAC and AptX Adaptive codecs.
- BT connection with my iPhone 12 is great. No dropouts in any corner of my apartment (when the phone lies in the living room). Far better than the XM4.
- Nice set of tips included (will try different tips I have tomorrow).
- I've made a couple of calls, and the people I've talked to said the call quality/mic was good. Loud and clear.
- Did I say they look so nice?  Like jewelry.
Edit: - No hiss or other annoying noises in use.

Cons:
- Difference in sound with ANC/Ambient on/off and also between the two ANC/Ambient settings. Mostly noticable with the amount of bass.
- Too much bass with "Max ANC" setting and the silicone tips. The included foam tips limit the bass with "Max ANC" to an acceptable level, but then the "Off" and "All day ANC" settings delivers maybe too little bass. It's the same with the two Ambient settings. Difference in bass with those as well. *End note; The app needs an EQ!!*
- Sony WF-1000XM4, with Final E Type tips, sounds better. Quicker and punchier bass and with no variation in sound with ANC/Ambient on/off.
- Especially with the foam tips, the ANC is inferior to the MTW2/XM4/APP standard. Will try all fitting sizes of silicone tomorrow, and see if they seal more and helps the ANC.
- The audio feedback when changing ANC/Ambient on/off is too cumbersome (is that the right word?). Takes too long to change.
- €349 is expensive...

Any questions?


----------



## clerkpalmer

BigZ12 said:


> M&D MW08S - Thoughts after a couple of hours use.
> 
> Pros:
> - Beautiful looks and build quality.
> ...


No questions. Thanks for the impressions.  Seems consistent with others’. Too bad that they can’t beat the xm4 for sq.


----------



## DJ XtAzY

clerkpalmer said:


> I think the signatures are similar yes. But the Gemini takes all the good things about the MT and turns them up to 11. You will get more treble sparkle in the Gemini.


Awesome. Placed my order yesterday and it'll be arriving on Thursday. Let's see whether I'll enjoy these more over the MT. More treble spark would be nice. I usually EQ the upper midrange and treble on MT's app. I just hope the fit on these will be great on my ears, since the sound always change whenever I tilt my head up and down with the MTs. Is there also a set of nice ear tips that people recommend for the Gemini?


----------



## jhwalker

DJ XtAzY said:


> Awesome. Placed my order yesterday and it'll be arriving on Thursday. Let's see whether I'll enjoy these more over the MT. More treble spark would be nice. I usually EQ the upper midrange and treble on MT's app. I just hope the fit on these will be great on my ears, since the sound always change whenever I tilt my head up and down with the MTs. Is there also a set of nice ear tips that people recommend for the Gemini?


The eat tips they come with are quite nice - I haven’t felt the need to swap them out.


----------



## erockg

jhwalker said:


> The eat tips they come with are quite nice - I haven’t felt the need to swap them out.


Same here.  I use the stock tips.  Love them!


----------



## h1a8

miserybeforethemusic said:


> As it is with a lot of Head-Fi gear, price doesn't always relate to quality (especially sound quality). The Melomania Touch is a bit of an outlier in a really good way.
> 
> Nice comparison and, though I haven't tried the over-ears or the 65t, works say my listening impressions agree with you. That 75t's V can be adjusted with tips, too. I really liked the Crystal for those.
> 
> ...


Some say that status between pro sound better than anything lower than 200 and better than some at 300 or more. What's your top 3 sounding truly wireless iems? Rank them as well


----------



## BigZ12 (Aug 25, 2021)

Wow, this was a little "crazy".

I've experienced the Lypertek Pureplay Z7 to be a little dark/warm/»dull».
I've also felt that the limited treble/highs that are present, were more prominent on the right bud. An imbalanced feeling compared to XM4/MW08S etc..
Actually been wondering if something were wrong with the left bud.
Then I removed the little glued "plastic-bits" (?) in front of the nozzles, and it's like heaven in comparison.
The result were absolutely no difference between left and right, and the treble sparkles, crispy and detailed as never before.
The difference is just like wow... 

I dared to do this, because there's spare "bits" included, so I knew they were possible to change.

Seriously... it's like a completely different set of TWS. Not joking, but without the protection-bits, it's actually the best sounding TWS I have.


----------



## J_3000 (Aug 25, 2021)

What do you guys think. I have the MW07 Plus (bought from the nice 50% off sale from M&D for 125€), would the MW08 or MW08s be an upgrade thinking about the sound?

Ive been looking for new set to buy, but dont want to buy several devices for different purposes or devices that wont be used much and just lay around. I had the MT's, but had to return them because of the frustrating bugs and subpar call quality. I really like the build quality and call quality of the MW07 Plus. The sound could be a bit more exciting though.


----------



## clerkpalmer

J_3000 said:


> What do you guys think. I have the MW07 Plus (bought from the nice 50% off sale from M&D for 125€), would the MW08 or MW08s be an upgrade thinking about the sound?
> 
> Ive been looking for new set to buy, but dont want to buy several devices for different purposes or devices that wont be used much and just lay around. I had the MT's, but had to return them because of the frustrating bugs and subpar call quality. I really like the build quality and call quality of the MW07 Plus. The sound could be a bit more exciting though.


I’ll tell you tomorrow but from the sound of things no, probably not.  If you want something more energetic than the mw07 there probably are better options. The Gemini for example.


----------



## BigZ12

BigZ12 said:


> Wow, this was a little "crazy".
> 
> I've experienced the Lypertek Pureplay Z7 to be a little dark/warm/»dull».
> I've also felt that the limited treble/highs that are present, were more prominent on the right bud. An imbalanced feeling compared to XM4/MW08S etc..
> ...


Edit: I tried to put another set of protection-bits on, and it's much better than the original. There must have been glue-residue in the middle of the pre-mounted ones?


----------



## Juturna

I'm probably selling my XM4's later this week and keeping the Sennheiser MTW2's.  

I've tried using the Sony's after using the Sennheisers and they just don't sound as good to me as the Sennheiser, I've tried different tips and I just can't get the Sony's to sound anywhere near as good (important: for *my* ears), which is so weird based on how much I disliked the Sennheisers when I got them and felt like the Sony's were "just right" when I first started using them. It's sad to me because I much prefer the size and shape of the Sony case, and the technology inside is just... yeah, more up to date, and I obviously feel like they're going to be improved a lot with software updates in the future.

But i'm still craving something new, and I want something even better... Where do I go from here? I want to spend like $200-300 tops, thinking if I should get a pair of wired open-back headphones, or just over-ear BT headphones... or a new pair of TWS, but not sure how much better I can get for that price. The Devialets are just over my budget, possibly thinking the new Klipsch... but not sure if that's going to be enough to warrant an upgrade.


----------



## scubaphish (Aug 25, 2021)

BigZ12 said:


> Edit: I tried to put another set of protection-bits on, and it's much better than the original. There must have been glue-residue in the middle of the pre-mounted ones?


Could the old tip be less permeable, like the plastic thicker, maybe?  Interesting design choice to use plastic at all to cover a driver. Congrats on the find


----------



## BigZ12

scubaphish said:


> Could the old tip be less permeable, like the plastic thicker, maybe?  Interesting design choice to use plastic at all to cover a driver. Congrats on the find


"Plastic"... I'm not sure of the material, it's thin, soft and there's glue on the edge to attach it properly.

Yes, it could be that the old "bit" had different texture. I threw it away, so I can't compare.
My guess is still that some glue may have blocked the middle where the sound shall pass without any hindrance.


----------



## Firevortex

SynaestheticA said:


> I was using the foams that came with them, not a huge fan of the short stumpy foam tip but did notice a decent difference in sound sig. That's a good point about the projection of vocals outside of the head. And I didn't mess around with the bass EQ. So perhaps there are some things I should be doing differently. I think the extra energy in the N6 Pro 2 is probably what leans me towards them.




no the stock tips are made of soft foam which seems to leak bass for me. the tips they sent me are made of denser foam and feels much firmer. 
i post about it here:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/goi...e-we-there-yet.861024/page-1822#post-15988821


----------



## clerkpalmer

Juturna said:


> I'm probably selling my XM4's later this week and keeping the Sennheiser MTW2's.
> 
> I've tried using the Sony's after using the Sennheisers and they just don't sound as good to me as the Sennheiser, I've tried different tips and I just can't get the Sony's to sound anywhere near as good (important: for *my* ears), which is so weird based on how much I disliked the Sennheisers when I got them and felt like the Sony's were "just right" when I first started using them. It's sad to me because I much prefer the size and shape of the Sony case, and the technology inside is just... yeah, more up to date, and I obviously feel like they're going to be improved a lot with software updates in the future.
> 
> But i'm still craving something new, and I want something even better... Where do I go from here? I want to spend like $200-300 tops, thinking if I should get a pair of wired open-back headphones, or just over-ear BT headphones... or a new pair of TWS, but not sure how much better I can get for that price. The Devialets are just over my budget, possibly thinking the new Klipsch... but not sure if that's going to be enough to warrant an upgrade.


Check out the Hifiman Deva. $300 gets you the best headphone value on the planet. They are seriously good.


----------



## Firevortex

BigZ12 said:


> Wow, this was a little "crazy".
> 
> Seriously... it's like a completely different set of TWS. Not joking, but without the protection-bits, it's actually the best sounding TWS I have.



interested in trying the z7 out with so many mentioning it been one of the best. i thought they came with EQ? cant you just tweak it?


----------



## EMINENT

Juturna said:


> I'm probably selling my XM4's later this week and keeping the Sennheiser MTW2's.
> 
> I've tried using the Sony's after using the Sennheisers and they just don't sound as good to me as the Sennheiser, I've tried different tips and I just can't get the Sony's to sound anywhere near as good (important: for *my* ears), which is so weird based on how much I disliked the Sennheisers
> 
> But i'm still craving something new, and I want something even better... Where do I go from here? I want to spend like $200-300 tops,


I want to spend upwards of $1000 for the ultimate tws, but no manufacturer wants to step up and they just keep making mediocre crap.


----------



## clerkpalmer

EMINENT said:


> I want to spend upwards of $1000 for the ultimate tws, but no manufacturer wants to step up and they just keep making mediocre crap.


Mediocre is probably inaccurate but i understand your point. Several of us here would (maybe not 1k) but certainly 500 to 600. Someone will do it eventually. At this point we have multi driver setups and we have LDAC so really just need someone to put them together and make a truly high end device.


----------



## Darkestred

Yikes.  $1000 is hard to swallow if no remove battery tech.


----------



## C_Lindbergh

Yeah, I doubt I'll spend more than 300-ish eur on a true wireless, unless the OEM offers battery exchange for a small fee.


----------



## Juturna

clerkpalmer said:


> Check out the Hifiman Deva. $300 gets you the best headphone value on the planet. They are seriously good.


Yeah I actually saw those but they cost almost $450 where i'm at, but I guess I could order from Hifiman right away, a bit worried about the possibility of having to pay import taxes and stuff like that though. They're slightly above my budget though but I will for sure keep them in mind. Got my 30th birthday coming up in about a month and a half so I guess I could put it on my wish list 

Also people, you know what? I just spoke so warmly about my Sennheiser earbuds... YOU KNOW WHAT, that romance is ****ing over now. When i first got them, I had to send them in for repairs after an hour of use. Got them back after they replaced the left earbud, started slowly loving them more. Now the OTHER earbud stopped working in a similar fashion, in exactly the same way. I was just adjusting them in my ear and the sound cut out. They still respond to touch gestures but output no sound. I will have to do the same thing and wait a month to get them replaced now most likely. I'M MAD. Really mad. DDDD:


----------



## Tommy C

clerkpalmer said:


> Mediocre is probably inaccurate but i understand your point. Several of us here would (maybe not 1k) but certainly 500 to 600. Someone will do it eventually. At this point we have multi driver setups and we have LDAC so really just need someone to put them together and make a truly high end device.


I suspect it’s going to be a slippery slop. When I got into this hobby spending $400 on a set of multi driver IEMs was considered to be the high tier and very close to top of the line but nowadays $400 IEMs are more like mid tier as so many manufacturers are offering super expensive stuff that arguably hit the spot of diminishing returns.  I fear the TWS is gonna end up the same but the main difference for me is that TWS are disposable once the battery can no longer hold a proper charge.


----------



## clerkpalmer

Tommy C said:


> I suspect it’s going to be a slippery slop. When I got into this hobby spending $400 on a set of multi driver IEMs was considered to be the high tier and very close to top of the line but nowadays $400 IEMs are more like mid tier as so many manufacturers are offering super expensive stuff that arguably hit the spot of diminishing returns.  I fear the TWS is gonna end up the same but the main difference for me is that TWS are disposable once the battery can no longer hold a proper charge.


True battery is an issue for sure but there’s no reason why they couldn’t be replaceable in a high tws. A similar dilemma for expensive BT headphones.  Maybe design and engineering challenges may make battery replacements more difficult for TWS?


----------



## TK33

Juturna said:


> Yeah I actually saw those but they cost almost $450 where i'm at, but I guess I could order from Hifiman right away, a bit worried about the possibility of having to pay import taxes and stuff like that though. They're slightly above my budget though but I will for sure keep them in mind. Got my 30th birthday coming up in about a month and a half so I guess I could put it on my wish list
> 
> Also people, you know what? I just spoke so warmly about my Sennheiser earbuds... YOU KNOW WHAT, that romance is ****ing over now. When i first got them, I had to send them in for repairs after an hour of use. Got them back after they replaced the left earbud, started slowly loving them more. Now the OTHER earbud stopped working in a similar fashion, in exactly the same way. I was just adjusting them in my ear and the sound cut out. They still respond to touch gestures but output no sound. I will have to do the same thing and wait a month to get them replaced now most likely. I'M MAD. Really mad. DDDD:


Did you just send one bed in or both? Last time my case broke on my original MTWs, I sent everything (i.e. both buds and the case) in and they sent me back a new sealed set.


----------



## BigZ12

Firevortex said:


> interested in trying the z7 out with so many mentioning it been one of the best. i thought they came with EQ? cant you just tweak it?


Yes, the app has a nice 7-band EQ.
My problem with the imbalance/limited treble on the left bud, couldn't be tweaked with an EQ. 
Everything is good now, with a new "protection piece" (as mentioned in my post) set in place. 
Pros: They sound very good. Comfortable. Rock solid connection. Great battery life. Buttons that works very well, controls everything. App with EQ. AAC and aptX.
Cons: Big case. Broad stem that doesn't fit many 3. party tips, and could break if you're not careful. They stick out of the ear a bit. No ANC. Mediocre hearthrough function.


----------



## Firevortex

EMINENT said:


> I want to spend upwards of $1000 for the ultimate tws, but no manufacturer wants to step up and they just keep making mediocre crap.


why not just buy a good $1000 iem and use something like a fiio utws3 or utws5 thats coming out soon?


----------



## Firevortex

BigZ12 said:


> Yes, the app has a nice 7-band EQ.
> My problem with the imbalance/limited treble on the left bud, couldn't be tweaked with an EQ.
> Everything is good now, with a new "protection piece" (as mentioned in my post) set in place.
> Pros: They sound very good. Comfortable. Rock solid connection. Great battery life. Buttons that works very well, controls everything. App with EQ. AAC and aptX.
> Cons: Big case. Broad stem that doesn't fit many 3. party tips, and could break if you're not careful. They stick out of the ear a bit. No ANC. Mediocre hearthrough function.



so the Z7 currently is better than the M&D MW08S you mentioned previously?


----------



## pitch_black

Flossy Carter's new #1


----------



## scubaphish (Aug 25, 2021)

Juturna said:


> I'm probably selling my XM4's later this week and keeping the Sennheiser MTW2's.
> 
> I've tried using the Sony's after using the Sennheisers and they just don't sound as good to me as the Sennheiser, I've tried different tips and I just can't get the Sony's to sound anywhere near as good (important: for *my* ears), which is so weird based on how much I disliked the Sennheisers when I got them and felt like the Sony's were "just right" when I first started using them. It's sad to me because I much prefer the size and shape of the Sony case, and the technology inside is just... yeah, more up to date, and I obviously feel like they're going to be improved a lot with software updates in the future.
> 
> But i'm still craving something new, and I want something even better... Where do I go from here? I want to spend like $200-300 tops, thinking if I should get a pair of wired open-back headphones, or just over-ear BT headphones... or a new pair of TWS, but not sure how much better I can get for that price. The Devialets are just over my budget, possibly thinking the new Klipsch... but not sure if that's going to be enough to warrant an upgrade.


Tried both the Klipsch T5 II ANC and Devialet (same $300 in US), and while I thought the Klipsch were going to be my new buds, once I tried the Gemini I changed my mind fairly quickly. That said, they are both great. I was constantly trying to get fit right with Klipsch, despite a pretty good seal

Edit: nor do I have golden ears


----------



## BigZ12 (Aug 25, 2021)

Firevortex said:


> so the Z7 currently is better than the M&D MW08S you mentioned previously?


After listening a couple of hours today, this is my placement sound wise.
1. XM4 (with Final E Type tips) - Most balanced. Punchiest bass, most detailed and crisp highs.
2. Pureplay Z7 (sounds good with Final E - Spinfit - JVC Spiral Dots) - They are still somewhat darker/warmer than the others, included the APP and MTW2.
3. MW08S (due to the oval and big stem, I've just tested with the included tips (foam and silicone)) - 3. place mostly because of too much bass with Max ANC, and not have the possibility to EQ it.

But the difference is marginal. So marginal that the features you want and/or price decides what you choose.
Fit, ANC, Ambient mode, Battery life, Case size, Codecs, Looks/Build quality etc etc

I actually think I'll keep the MW08S for the total package.
I'll keep the Sony because of the SQ, and it's great using toghether with my BTA30 and LDAC codec.
I will also keep my Airpods Pro. My goto buds for phone calls, watching series/movies from Apple TV 4k with Spatial Audio and I love the fit/comfort, the small case etc.. The most versatile buds IMO. They sound good as well with the ePro horn shaped tips. (AP00)

I guess I'm selling the MTW2 and the Z7.

Remember, this is my experience, with my ears


----------



## BooleanBones

pitch_black said:


> Flossy Carter's new #1



I could see that. Absolute quality product which has the ability to produce the bass he likes. They did it right from the case on up.


----------



## BooleanBones

BigZ12 said:


> After listening a couple of hours today, this is my placement sound wise.
> 1. XM4 (with Final E Type tips) - Most balanced. Punchiest bass, most detailed and crisp highs.
> 2. Pureplay Z7 (sounds good with Final E - Spinfit - JVC Spiral Dots) - They are still somewhat darker/warmer than the others, included the APP and MTW2.
> 3. MW08S (due to the oval and big stem, I've just tested with the included tips (foam and silicone)) - 3. place mostly because of too much bass with Max ANC, and not have the possibility to EQ it.


For me, the XM4s were average/pretty good SQ until I put the Finals on them. *note, I hate foam tips, so did not try them* After that, those tips will have to fall off on their own as I won't be taking them off  Same as you though, my ears are not golden, so I am sure other opinions exist.


----------



## BigZ12

A little sidenote and shout out for the Airpods Pro.
I returned 3 sets manufactured before October 2020. All lost bass, ANC got weak, fit test went yellow etc..
But then they did some tiny modifications with them after Oct. 2020... 
My last set is made January 2021, and has been great! NO hickups what so ever! 

And as I've said a couple of times now, I love them with the ePro tips.


----------



## erockg

BooleanBones said:


> For me, the XM4s were average/pretty good SQ until I put the Finals on them. *note, I hate foam tips, so did not try them* After that, those tips will have to fall off on their own as I won't be taking them off  Same as you though, my ears are not golden, so I am sure other opinions exist.


It's funny you say that because the Final tips and the old Sony tips I have are identical.  Final literally just molded a Sony clone.  Years ago, the Sony tips were the ones everyone tried to find.  They must have gone out of print and then Final solved that problem.  Check out the pic.  Can you tell which one is which, if you didn't see the inside color?


----------



## Tommy C

clerkpalmer said:


> True battery is an issue for sure but there’s no reason why they couldn’t be replaceable in a high tws. A similar dilemma for expensive BT headphones.  Maybe design and engineering challenges may make battery replacements more difficult for TWS?


I believe the battery is indeed the main issue. With BT headphones it’s a similar issue however most models will give you a cable option too so if the battery goes out you’re still left with _something _to play around with at least_  _


----------



## BooleanBones

erockg said:


> It's funny you say that because the Final tips and the old Sony tips I have are identical.  Final literally just molded a Sony clone.  Years ago, the Sony tips were the ones everyone tried to find.  They must have gone out of print and then Final solved that problem.  Check out the pic.  Can you tell which one is which, if you didn't see the inside color?


Now that is funny 😆


----------



## Juturna

TK33 said:


> Did you just send one bed in or both? Last time my case broke on my original MTWs, I sent everything (i.e. both buds and the case) in and they sent me back a new sealed set.


I sent both in with the case and everything, and they only replaced the non-functioning left earbud. 
So now we'll see if they'll replace more than just the right one. I asked to get a new pair but I doubt they will listen to that request.


----------



## erockg

clerkpalmer said:


> True battery is an issue for sure but there’s no reason why they couldn’t be replaceable in a high tws. A similar dilemma for expensive BT headphones.  Maybe design and engineering challenges may make battery replacements more difficult for TWS?


I do know that our favorite Devialet Gemini have a replaceable battery in the case.  If you pop it upside down, there is a screw.  Not sure what it takes, but they do advertise that feature.  It's a step!


----------



## erockg

BigZ12 said:


> A little sidenote and shout out for the Airpods Pro.
> I returned 3 sets manufactured before October 2020. All lost bass, ANC got weak, fit test went yellow etc..
> But then they did some tiny modifications with them after Oct. 2020...
> My last set is made January 2021, and has been great! NO hickups what so ever!
> ...


Can you link me to the tips?  I've been using Spinfits on my Airpods Pro and loving it.  But would like to see these ePro tips you're talking about.  Thanks!


----------



## BooleanBones

erockg said:


> Can you link me to the tips?  I've been using Spinfits on my Airpods Pro and loving it.  But would like to see these ePro tips you're talking about.  Thanks!


These are the ones I used on my MTs. https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B08LPV19KK/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o07_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1 but would definitely like to try out their airpods pro version.


----------



## darveniza

TWS are becoming a problem as traditional IEM's , current picture did not include my Grados as my son is using them

As of today,  

On Sound:

B&O
Devialet
STW2
MW08
AKG N400/PI7
On Noise Cancelling:

Sony
MW08
STW2
Devialet
PI7
APP

 Sony
CA MT
B&O
STW2
AKG
Case

B&O
MW08
Sony
PI7
CA MT


----------



## BooleanBones

darveniza said:


> TWS are becoming a problem as traditional IEM's , current picture did not include my Grados as my son is using them
> 
> As of today,
> 
> ...


nice collection.


----------



## scubaphish

darveniza said:


> TWS are becoming a problem as traditional IEM's , current picture did not include my Grados as my son is using them
> 
> As of today,
> 
> ...


Many thanks for the run-down


----------



## scubaphish

erockg said:


> Can you link me to the tips?  I've been using Spinfits on my Airpods Pro and loving it.  But would like to see these ePro tips you're talking about.  Thanks!


I think these are them…same model number, AP00

ePro Patented Horn-Shaped for AirPods Pro Ear Tips, Replacement Silicone Earbud Tips, Pressure Relief Vents Design with Dust Mesh, AP00, 4 Pcs, Medium https://www.amazon.com/dp/B094QFKKPZ/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_glt_fabc_C0TJ4AYFT2TB4ZZACWN5


----------



## erockg

BooleanBones said:


> These are the ones I used on my MTs. https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B08LPV19KK/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o07_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1 but would definitely like to try out their airpods pro version.


Here's what I did to my APP.  The little adapters on the buds themselves don't seem to be in stock on Amazon anymore, but I'm sure there are others.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B085M2TDJN/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07PJNHM3Z/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1


----------



## BigZ12

erockg said:


> Can you link me to the tips?  I've been using Spinfits on my Airpods Pro and loving it.  But would like to see these ePro tips you're talking about.  Thanks!


https://www.mtmtaudio.com/collectio...ilicon-eartips-for-apple-airpods-pro-earphone


----------



## BigZ12 (Aug 25, 2021)

erockg said:


> Here's what I did to my APP.  The little adapters on the buds themselves don't seem to be in stock on Amazon anymore, but I'm sure there are others.
> https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B085M2TDJN/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1
> https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07PJNHM3Z/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1


The ePro is built on the same principle. The silicone tip with the horn shape is mounted on an oval adapter.


----------



## erockg

scubaphish said:


> I think these are them…same model number, AP00
> 
> ePro Patented Horn-Shaped for AirPods Pro Ear Tips, Replacement Silicone Earbud Tips, Pressure Relief Vents Design with Dust Mesh, AP00, 4 Pcs, Medium https://www.amazon.com/dp/B094QFKKPZ/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_glt_fabc_C0TJ4AYFT2TB4ZZACWN5


Nice!  Cheaper than MTM.


----------



## erockg

BigZ12 said:


> The ePro is built on the same principle. The silicone tip with the horn shape is mounted on an oval adapter.


Very cool.  Maybe I don't need them then.  Thanks for the info!


----------



## Tenlow

BigZ12 said:


> M&D MW08S - Thoughts after a couple of hours use.
> 
> Pros:
> - Beautiful looks and build quality.
> ...


Agree with the pros 

About the cons: 

I don't hear a big difference between ANC off and "All day" ANC modes and I haven't used Max ANC mode often enough as of now. "All Day" ANC seems sufficient for everything I do around here, I guess.

Agree that an EQ would be fantastic but I'm happy with how the stock sound is. I definitely prefer it to the stock sound of the WF-1000XM4. However, the XM4 sound better when EQ'd for me. 

Audio feedback when switching modes is fine for me but I agree that the modes could switch quicker!

The price is really high but I love so many things about them (case, design, fit/comfort, battery life, sound, buttons etc.) I will keep them as my daily driver. Haven't found a better package for me yet. The XM4 come close but they don't fit as good/are not as comfortable and the case is way cheaper + you always have to sacrifice one feature as you can only assign two to the buds (in my case it was volume control e.g.).


----------



## DJ XtAzY (Aug 25, 2021)

Woot my Gemini arrived a day earlier. So far I'm glad the sound doesn't change whenever I rock my head up and down compared to the MT, so I guess these are a better fit.

Right now I have my left MT (I wish I didn't lose my right one) and right Gemini playing music at the same time, just to see if I can pick out some of the differences.

Edit: Definitely more treble energy on the Gemini, although I hope it won't be fatiguing after prolonged listening. I think the vocals are more pronounced and clear on the Gemini, while MT's vocal is slightly warmer and had a bit more body. I also feel like I'm more closer to the stage with the MT than Gemini, but I honestly like them both at the moment.

Edit 2: Both can handle bass very very well.


----------



## BooleanBones

DJ XtAzY said:


> Woot my Gemini arrived a day earlier. So far I'm glad the sound doesn't change whenever I rock my head up and down compared to the MT, so I guess these are a better fit.
> 
> Right now I have my left MT (I wish I didn't lose my right one) and right Gemini playing music at the same time, just to see if I can pick out some of the differences.


It’s a Gemini day apparently. Mine just showed up. 😀


----------



## scubaphish

DJ XtAzY said:


> Woot my Gemini arrived a day earlier. So far I'm glad the sound doesn't change whenever I rock my head up and down compared to the MT, so I guess these are a better fit.
> 
> Right now I have my left MT (I wish I didn't lose my right one) and right Gemini playing music at the same time, just to see if I can pick out some of the differences.
> 
> ...


My MT are supposedly on the UPS truck for delivery today


----------



## dweaver

Having used the AFT2 for a couple days I really am enjoying their sound and fit. But the case is definitely loose when pulled open. Time will tell if it has any issues but it doesn't fill me with lots of confidence.

Signature wise it is warmer than the Samsung Buds Pro but not as warm as the 1000XM3.

In doing some direct A/B comparisons between the Between Pro (BP) and the AFT2 the AFT2 has bigger bass that's verges on to much while the AFT2 is more balanced in this regard. The AFT2 has more midrange warmth than the BP which can be good or bad depending on preference. The BP clearly has more treble detail and presence though with cymbals having more definition and decay.

Comfort wise the AFT2 is slightly more comfortable in my ears but is clearly larger and will have fit issues with people who have a small concha whereas the BP should work good for both groups.

Both TWS have no app support so rely on your device or music app to EQ if your not happy with the sound and both are set in regards to how they work and sound. The BP has a smaller case but is fiddly getting the ear pieces out. The AFT2 has a unique pull out tray design that cool but consumes more space. Both cases have potential flimsy design elements hinges on the BP and loose tray on the AFT2.

If they were the same price at around $77 US I think the BP offers more technical bang for the buck. But since the BP is closer to $130 or more here in Canada after factoring in shipping and exchange rates the AFT2 offers better value proposition especially if Visions discounts them further. But they also need to be considered a one and done deal since the manufacturer is now gone. So if concerned see how much some added warranty would cost and make sure they will allow an exchange for a different brand in case the product dies.


----------



## cresny

erockg said:


> I do know that our favorite Devialet Gemini have a replaceable battery in the case.  If you pop it upside down, there is a screw.  Not sure what it takes, but they do advertise that feature.  It's a step!


Sadly, this is not true. I've opened it.


----------



## erockg

cresny said:


> Sadly, this is not true. I've opened it.


Swear I read this.  But you probably know more than me.  I'm old.  I forget things.


----------



## bladefd (Aug 25, 2021)

Bit disappointed in CA.. I sent in the Melomania Touch for RMA, and they sent me the 1+.. Someone must have screwed up because the email from the RMA department and shipping label both say "Melomania Touch".. I didn't open the 1+ and put them back in the UPS box. Emailed them back to see what the heck happened.

It's not an easy mistake to make unless if you are not familiar with the product line. I guess mistakes happen, but I hope someone doesn't get in trouble for this. This still cannot happen though. It's inexcusable.


----------



## erockg

Anyone else been having strange issues with their M&D MW08S?  I get random disconnects, reboots and now a strange beeping sound that only callers hear when I'm using them.  Just emailed M&D for help and/or a replacement but wow, this is frustrating.


----------



## BigZ12 (Aug 25, 2021)

Tenlow said:


> I don't hear a big difference between ANC off and "All day" ANC modes and I haven't used Max ANC mode often enough as of now. "All Day" ANC seems sufficient for everything I do around here, I guess.
> 
> Agree that an EQ would be fantastic but I'm happy with how the stock sound is. I definitely prefer it to the stock sound of the WF-1000XM4. However, the XM4 sound better when EQ'd for me.
> 
> ...


I agree. "All day ANC" and "Off" are quite similar. I've used "All day" the last times I've listened to the MW08S, and am happy with the sound using that setting.

XM4 doesn't sound better with stock settings and stock tips. As Boolean Bones also said, they were just pretty good until I used the Final E Type tips on them .

Maybe I should've explained it better, regarding the audio feedback. It's the total time switching modes I meant as well.

As I wrote in another post, I also will keep the MW08S because it's (almost) the total package.

Which tips do you prefer using with the MW08S?
​


----------



## jant71 (Aug 25, 2021)

Saw this pic w/o any context...




Wasn't sure what this was till I found this article...
https://vnexplorer.net/jabras-new-t...help-cope-with-hearing-loss-er2021606227.html
"Since they’ve got the form-factor of a pair of true wireless earbuds, the Enhance Plus can also be used like a traditional pair of headphones to stream music or make calls from a paired smartphone. They’re IP52 rated for dust and water resistance, and will be sold in gray and beige. "



Would be sweet if easier to get and the price was right. Still interesting and pretty sweet looking.


----------



## cresny

jant71 said:


> Saw this pic w/o any context...
> 
> Wasn't sure what this was till I found this article...
> https://vnexplorer.net/jabras-new-t...help-cope-with-hearing-loss-er2021606227.html
> ...


I didn't know that Sennheiser's consumer business was bought by a hearing aid manufacturer (Sonova or Switzerland). Given that hearing loss is cumulative, smart move!


----------



## BooleanBones

cresny said:


> I didn't know that Sennheiser's consumer business was bought by a hearing aid manufacturer (Sonova or Switzerland). Given that hearing loss is cumulative, smart move!


Possibly a future offer of a lifetime subscription service for life transitions?


----------



## BooleanBones

erockg said:


> Here's what I did to my APP.  The little adapters on the buds themselves don't seem to be in stock on Amazon anymore, but I'm sure there are others.
> https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B085M2TDJN/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1
> https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07PJNHM3Z/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1


Didn't even register with me the color of your APP. Colorware or something? They look spiffy in black.


----------



## erockg

BooleanBones said:


> Didn't even register with me the color of your APP. Colorware or something? They look spiffy in black.


Yeah, I just never liked the white Apple stuff.  I picked up the matte black Colorware ones a while ago.


----------



## clerkpalmer

@erockg what sort of witchcraft is needed to fit the wingtips on the T5s?

i honestly don’t know what to make of these mw08s. Some tracks sound silky smooth but some are just boomy and muddy. I tried wavelet but I get a lot of distortion when I enable the EQ. Not sure yet.


----------



## DJ XtAzY (Aug 25, 2021)

Man the Gemini really makes the female vocals shine in a lot of my EDM tracks. I remember I had to EQ the upper midrange on the MT just make the vocals more intimate. I also like how I can EQ the bass region and it still doesn't sound bloated or muddy at all. The treble on the Gemini can be piercing at times, but at the same time it adds some fun to it. If my memory serves me right (when I had both my earpieces), I think the soundstage of the MT is slightly more expansive, and in some songs, I feel more immersed with it than the Gemini. Still need to do more listening, but so far so good. Pairing on my Samsung S21 Ultra is much better and easier than the MT, no hiccups or disruption.

I do like how the touch sensitivity on the Gemini is not as crazy as the MT.


----------



## assassin10000

BigZ12 said:


> Wow, this was a little "crazy".
> 
> I've experienced the Lypertek Pureplay Z7 to be a little dark/warm/»dull».
> I've also felt that the limited treble/highs that are present, were more prominent on the right bud. An imbalanced feeling compared to XM4/MW08S etc..
> ...





BigZ12 said:


> Edit: I tried to put another set of protection-bits on, and it's much better than the original. There must have been glue-residue in the middle of the pre-mounted ones?



Could also have had some earwax buildup blocking the mesh. Maybe next time try hitting them with a q-tip and rubbing alcohol and/or hydrogen peroxide?

You may also be able to pick up some SS nozzle mesh from AE for cheap to try too.



jant71 said:


> Saw this pic w/o any context...
> 
> Wasn't sure what this was till I found this article...
> https://vnexplorer.net/jabras-new-t...help-cope-with-hearing-loss-er2021606227.html
> ...


Those look cool. Like they would have a very tucked into the ear fit. Somewhat like the old ufo shaped TWS case ones had (can't recall name) or the original bomaker sifi.


----------



## Tenlow

BigZ12 said:


> I agree. "All day ANC" and "Off" are quite similar. I've used "All day" the last times I've listened to the MW08S, and am happy with the sound using that setting.
> 
> XM4 doesn't sound better with stock settings and stock tips. As Boolean Bones also said, they were just pretty good until I used the Final E Type tips on them .
> 
> ...


I started off using the stock L foam tips but found that they don't fit better than the stock L silicone ones. I've tried the XL silicone ones but they are too big for me, so I'm just using the large silicone ones. Not planning to tip roll these as fit is perfect for me


----------



## erockg

clerkpalmer said:


> @erockg what sort of witchcraft is needed to fit the wingtips on the T5s?
> 
> i honestly don’t know what to make of these mw08s. Some tracks sound silky smooth but some are just boomy and muddy. I tried wavelet but I get a lot of distortion when I enable the EQ. Not sure yet.


I haven’t needed to use them, but usually they slip on and have a lip that locks them on.  I didn’t have any issues. Or, you could draw a pentagram on your living room floor and make a blood sacrifice.  Either way works.

Regarding the MW08S, I’m on an iPhone most days so I can’t even try wavelet.  The MW series is notorious for muddy at times.  That said, I’m having good luck with the foam tips on the MW08S.  Listening to this right now and loving it:


----------



## BigZ12 (Aug 26, 2021)

assassin10000 said:


> Could also have had some earwax buildup blocking the mesh. Maybe next time try hitting them with a q-tip and rubbing alcohol and/or hydrogen peroxide?





assassin10000 said:


> You may also be able to pick up some SS nozzle mesh from AE for cheap to try too.


Could be, good suggestion, but I doubt it. I've not used the Z7 for long and I've felt the imbalance from the start (I think  ).
But who knows, I didn't study the mesh before I threw the little protection bit away.
If it happens again, I will check and follow your recommendation.

I removed the "bits" again (since I have extra spares), and the Z7 sounds noticably better without them. By my taste. Noticably crisper highs, which I like.
So maybe just not use the protection, and rather try a tip with built in mesh as you say?


----------



## assassin10000

BigZ12 said:


> Could be, good suggestion, but I doubt it. I've not used the Z7 for long and I've felt the imbalance from the start (I think  ).
> But who knows, I didn't study the mesh before I threw the little protection bit away.
> If it happens again, I will check and follow your recommendation.
> 
> ...


I meant these:
https://a.aliexpress.com/_mKPYEMf


----------



## BigZ12

assassin10000 said:


> I meant these:
> https://a.aliexpress.com/_mKPYEMf


Ah, ok. I thought maybe a tip with mesh (like Comply Foam have for ex..)


----------



## assassin10000

BigZ12 said:


> Ah, ok. I thought maybe a tip with mesh (like Comply Foam have for ex..)


I figured as much.

The only tips with mesh that I can recall also change the sound signature too. So not typically a recommendation unless someone wants less shouty/lower treble  .


----------



## Bobbetybob

Managed to get a pair of Melomania Touch on Amazons Warehouse deals for £80, excited to finally try them out. I've got to throw out a nod to my trusty Fiil T1 Pro which have been filling in nicely while I waited for something else to come along. They're a really fun set and I find them incredibly comfortable, they'll now become my pair for running which I am definitely going to start doing...soon.


----------



## scubaphish (Aug 26, 2021)

DJ XtAzY said:


> Man the Gemini really makes the female vocals shine in a lot of my EDM tracks. I remember I had to EQ the upper midrange on the MT just make the vocals more intimate. I also like how I can EQ the bass region and it still doesn't sound bloated or muddy at all. The treble on the Gemini can be piercing at times, but at the same time it adds some fun to it. If my memory serves me right (when I had both my earpieces), I think the soundstage of the MT is slightly more expansive, and in some songs, I feel more immersed with it than the Gemini. Still need to do more listening, but so far so good. Pairing on my Samsung S21 Ultra is much better and easier than the MT, no hiccups or disruption.
> 
> I do like how the touch sensitivity on the Gemini is not as crazy as the MT.


I got my MT yesterday and after spending so much time with the Gemini, I found them somewhat in contrast. To your point, and maybe because the Gemini are simply more mid/high present, I found the MT to have those same frequencies to be recessed. I wouldn’t call the MT bass forward, but to my ears at least, I want to say less clarity than the Gemini; but maybe it’s not clarity, as the SQ was definitely there. Sparkle, is that was it is? I perceived similar “veiling” of those frequencies as I did with the PI7. At least here I can EQ it, but I wasn’t expecting the eq settings I was ending up with.


----------



## scubaphish

BigZ12 said:


> Could be, good suggestion, but I doubt it. I've not used the Z7 for long and I've felt the imbalance from the start (I think  ).
> But who knows, I didn't study the mesh before I threw the little protection bit away.
> If it happens again, I will check and follow your recommendation.
> 
> ...


So to be clear, you’re currently running “bit-less”?  Based on the pics, I can’t say I’m too surprised by added detail and clarity.
Those metal screens seem very interesting and makes me think kinds like your “plasticky” bits are more common than I would have thought.


----------



## BobJS

scubaphish said:


> My MT are supposedly on the UPS truck for delivery today



Mine too.


----------



## BigZ12

scubaphish said:


> So to be clear, you’re currently running “bit-less”?  Based on the pics, I can’t say I’m too surprised by added detail and clarity.
> Those metal screens seem very interesting and makes me think kinds like your “plasticky” bits are more common than I would have thought.


Yes, right now there's no dust cover mounted. Sound is better without, no doubt about it. (again, in my ears  )


----------



## Juturna

I think I finally found a set of eartips that make me enjoy the Sony XM4's.
One of the main things that I noticed was that when I've had the Sennheiser i've always been really eager to pick up my earbuds to listen to music just because it sounds so good, but now when they're away for repairs/exchange I haven't been feeling it because as soon as I plug the XM4's into my ears I just get kinda bummed out over how they sound. 
I think it's weird because it doesn't seem like many would agree with my assessment but with not only the stock eartips but
MOST eartips it sounds like somebody put a wool blanket over the mids and to me it's really bloating the bass. The sound signature is just not very enjoyable to me.

Now with these eartips (the stock eartips from the Earfun Free Pro) they sound a lot more open and balanced, but they lack the nice sub bass rumble that the Sennheiser has, and it's overall less sparkly, but it's at least clear and balanced, but it still has a bit of that in the upper mids even now but it's way more manageable. 

I'm still not sure, I have a buyer that I can sell them to, I just don't know now when my Sennys will be gone for a couple of weeks at least...


----------



## clerkpalmer

erockg said:


> I haven’t needed to use them, but usually they slip on and have a lip that locks them on.  I didn’t have any issues. Or, you could draw a pentagram on your living room floor and make a blood sacrifice.  Either way works.
> 
> Regarding the MW08S, I’m on an iPhone most days so I can’t even try wavelet.  The MW series is notorious for muddy at times.  That said, I’m having good luck with the foam tips on the MW08S.  Listening to this right now and loving it:


The pentagram tricked worked. Unfortunately they are a no go with the case so that’s likely a deal breaker. I do prefer the sq to the mw08. Less warm, less bloat and lot more detail and much better soundstage. Wish I could combine the two. The mw08 have a really nice fit. Simple no tricks but largely stable.


----------



## erockg

clerkpalmer said:


> The pentagram tricked worked. Unfortunately they are a no go with the case so that’s likely a deal breaker. I do prefer the sq to the mw08. Less warm, less bloat and lot more detail and much better soundstage. Wish I could combine the two. The mw08 have a really nice fit. Simple no tricks but largely stable.


Yeah, you have to take them off with the case, unless you have the waterproof case from the Sport version.  Sorry I didn't mention that.  I agree, I too like the T5 II ANC better.  I just got a response regarding the beeping issue I'm having with the MW08S.

"Thanks for reaching out, and for choosing Master & Dynamic. I am sorry to hear you are having issues, but I hope the below will help. The "beeping" people are hearing on the other end should be resolved with the latest firmware version - 4.4.4."

Of course they ran me through the typical process of resetting, blah blah, all the stuff I've already done.  Nice they acknowledged there was an issue, sadly, I'm having that issue.  Trying to get a replacement now...


----------



## clerkpalmer

erockg said:


> Yeah, you have to take them off with the case, unless you have the waterproof case from the Sport version.  Sorry I didn't mention that.  I agree, I too like the T5 II ANC better.  I just got a response regarding the beeping issue I'm having with the MW08S.
> 
> "Thanks for reaching out, and for choosing Master & Dynamic. I am sorry to hear you are having issues, but I hope the below will help. The "beeping" people are hearing on the other end should be resolved with the latest firmware version - 4.4.4."
> 
> Of course they ran me through the typical process of resetting, blah blah, all the stuff I've already done.  Nice they acknowledged there was an issue, sadly, I'm having that issue.  Trying to get a replacement now...


Can you ask them to fix the “bloated muddy mess” problem I am having?


----------



## clerkpalmer

erockg said:


> Yeah, you have to take them off with the case, unless you have the waterproof case from the Sport version.  Sorry I didn't mention that.  I agree, I too like the T5 II ANC better.  I just got a response regarding the beeping issue I'm having with the MW08S.
> 
> "Thanks for reaching out, and for choosing Master & Dynamic. I am sorry to hear you are having issues, but I hope the below will help. The "beeping" people are hearing on the other end should be resolved with the latest firmware version - 4.4.4."
> 
> Of course they ran me through the typical process of resetting, blah blah, all the stuff I've already done.  Nice they acknowledged there was an issue, sadly, I'm having that issue.  Trying to get a replacement now...


They should have shipped these with wings and the sport case for 250. I’m sure the “sport version” is forthcoming but come on.


----------



## erockg

clerkpalmer said:


> Can you ask them to fix the “bloated muddy mess” problem I am having?


Yes, I told them and linked them to your Head-Fi account.  Get ready.  

I've had every incarnation of the MWs.  Something inevitably makes them leave my collection.  Hopefully, not this time.


----------



## clerkpalmer

erockg said:


> Yes, I told them and linked them to your Head-Fi account.  Get ready.
> 
> I've had every incarnation of the MWs.  Something inevitably makes them leave my collection.  Hopefully, not this time.


Ha ha.  I shared this feedback with them when they originally released.  In defense of the MW08, I think it's more of a preference thing.  They can sound very rich and warm and full, and going back to back with the Klipsch is a pretty stark contrast making the T5 sound thin in comparison.  I can see why people like the sound.  I have owned just about every MW as well and comparing the MW08 to the MW07 confirms something has changed in the special sauce.  Almost too much of a good thing.  At moderate volumes, wavelet improves things and takes the edge off the low end.  I need to ask myself if I would ever reach for them over the pi7, Gemini or even the MT which I am very fond of.  They sure are pretty though.


----------



## erockg

clerkpalmer said:


> Ha ha.  I shared this feedback with them when they originally released.  In defense of the MW08, I think it's more of a preference thing.  They can sound very rich and warm and full, and going back to back with the Klipsch is a pretty stark contrast making the T5 sound thin in comparison.  I can see why people like the sound.  I have owned just about every MW as well and comparing the MW08 to the MW07 confirms something has changed in the special sauce.  Almost too much of a good thing.  At moderate volumes, wavelet improves things and takes the edge off the low end.  I need to ask myself if I would ever reach for them over the pi7, Gemini or even the MT which I am very fond of.  They sure are pretty though.


I wanted the PI7s to be so much better than they are.  Every one I had, had bugs.  Could be the metal plate in my head.  Kidding.  M&D approved the RMA for a new pair.  I'll give it a go.

I'd def pick the Gemini's up first, but then I'm really enjoying those new B&O EQs.  Popped some Spinfit tips on them and they do sound better than the M&D.  Crazy is as crazy does.  Ugh.


----------



## clerkpalmer

erockg said:


> I wanted the PI7s to be so much better than they are.  Every one I had, had bugs.  Could be the metal plate in my head.  Kidding.  M&D approved the RMA for a new pair.  I'll give it a go.
> 
> I'd def pick the Gemini's up first, but then I'm really enjoying those new B&O EQs.  Popped some Spinfit tips on them and they do sound better than the M&D.  Crazy is as crazy does.  Ugh.


Hmmm. Perhaps there is an EQ in my future.


----------



## clerkpalmer

clerkpalmer said:


> Hmmm. Perhaps there is an EQ in my future.


Done and done.


----------



## BooleanBones (Aug 26, 2021)

erockg said:


> I wanted the PI7s to be so much better than they are.  Every one I had, had bugs.  Could be the metal plate in my head.  Kidding.  M&D approved the RMA for a new pair.  I'll give it a go.
> 
> I'd def pick the Gemini's up first, but then I'm really enjoying those new B&O EQs.  Popped some Spinfit tips on them and they do sound better than the M&D.  Crazy is as crazy does.  Ugh.


I actually love the sound on the EQs. Playing any acoustical music on them sounds phenomenal to me (i.e. Scorpions Wind of Change unplugged in Greece).  They actually handled any type of music I threw at them well. I only have two complaints/wishes with them or they would be a complete package in my eyes.

1. Wish they had the capability to go a bit louder for those occasions where I want goosebumps 
2. Wish they had a bit more controls around the ANC/Ambient modes. Which I could live without if needed.


----------



## clerkpalmer

BooleanBones said:


> I actually love the sound on the EQs. Playing any acoustical music on them sounds phenomenal to me (i.e. Scorpions Wind of Change unplugged in Greece).  They actually handled any type of music I threw at them well. I only have two complaints/wishes with them or they would be a complete package in my eyes.
> 
> 1. Wish they had the capability to go a bit louder for those occasions where I want goosebumps
> 2. Wish they had a bit more controls around the ANC/Ambient modes. Which I could live without if needed.


I remember when B&O first released their neck buds. Man those things had some sweet sound despite that terrible shoelace cable. These weren’t on my radar but wth not. As an aside, Samsung continues to not include AptxHD meaning the pI7 is neutered. Annoyed.


----------



## erockg

BooleanBones said:


> I actually love the sound on the EQs. Playing any acoustical music on them sounds phenomenal to me (i.e. Scorpions Wind of Change unplugged in Greece).  They actually handled any type of music I threw at them well. I only have two complaints/wishes with them or they would be a complete package in my eyes.
> 
> 1. Wish they had the capability to go a bit louder for those occasions where I want goosebumps
> 2. Wish they had a bit more controls around the ANC/Ambient modes. Which I could live without if needed.


I agree, just a tad louder, but on the newer mastered stuff, they are great.  

This is sick on the EQs IMO:


----------



## BooleanBones

clerkpalmer said:


> I remember when B&O first released their neck buds. Man those things had some sweet sound despite that terrible shoelace cable. These weren’t on my radar but wth not. As an aside, Samsung continues to not include AptxHD meaning the pI7 is neutered. Annoyed.


@erockg got me queued on them after I promised myself to never buy anymore of their overpriced stuff, but with these I am really glad I did. He ranks them second to his Gemini's, but I rank them 1 on my SQ list with the Geminis 2nd. My ears are that awesome though, but interesting to see more folks take on them. Putting them in the case takes a bit of getting used to. FYI, I also had the tips formerly known as Sonys on them when I was using them.


----------



## BooleanBones

erockg said:


> I agree, just a tad louder, but on the newer mastered stuff, they are great.
> 
> This is sick on the EQs IMO:


Nice. Will try that one out. My first rock concert in 1988 was Whitesnake/Great White. Good stuff!


----------



## erockg

BooleanBones said:


> Nice. Will try that one out. My first rock concert in 1988 was Whitesnake/Great White. Good stuff!


Ha ha! Mine too.  Whitesnake/Great White, 1988, Brendan Byrne Arena in NJ.  What are the odds?!


----------



## BooleanBones

erockg said:


> Ha ha! Mine too.  Whitesnake/Great White, 1988, Brendan Byrne Arena in NJ.  What are the odds?!


Now that is funny. Yep, the 1988 North American tour. Cedar Rapids Iowa for me.


----------



## Tommy C

clerkpalmer said:


> Ha ha.  I shared this feedback with them when they originally released.  In defense of the MW08, I think it's more of a preference thing.  They can sound very rich and warm and full, and going back to back with the Klipsch is a pretty stark contrast making the T5 sound thin in comparison.  I can see why people like the sound.  I have owned just about every MW as well and comparing the MW08 to the MW07 confirms something has changed in the special sauce.  Almost too much of a good thing.  At moderate volumes, wavelet improves things and takes the edge off the low end.  I need to ask myself if I would ever reach for them over the pi7, Gemini or even the MT which I am very fond of.  They sure are pretty though.



IIRC this bloat issue was also with the MW07 Go resulting some tracks to sound really congested and boomy while it didn’t impact other tracks. Weird. 
I wasn’t emotionally invested in them back then and quickly moved on.


----------



## Hearforthemusic

Re the B&O eqs , are they loud enough on an iPhone? 
would they work in the gym or are the mw08sport a better about?


----------



## BooleanBones

Hearforthemusic said:


> Re the B&O eqs , are they loud enough on an iPhone?
> would they work in the gym or are the mw08sport a better about?


I have only tried them mowing the lawn in our 600 degree weather and doubt they will stay in your ears for a workout. Dry ears no issue at all, but a bit of sweat and they can move around.


----------



## Hearforthemusic

BooleanBones said:


> I have only tried them mowing the lawn in our 600 degree weather and doubt they will stay in your ears for a workout. Dry ears no issue at all, but a bit of sweat and they can move around.


Thanks. Have currently got the xm4s but am not really getting on with them. Sound is great, but not really getting on with them in terms of placing in ears, getting a good fit and how they feel. Have tried the hybrids, they’re not wearing very well after 3 weeks and have tried spinfits and am finding them hit and miss too.

not sure what to try next, am tempted by the mw08 sport, but the views on here seem a bit negative and the anc seems quite poor.


----------



## BooleanBones

Hearforthemusic said:


> Thanks. Have currently got the xm4s but am not really getting on with them. Sound is great, but not really getting on with them in terms of placing in ears, getting a good fit and how they feel. Have tried the hybrids, they’re not wearing very well after 3 weeks and have tried spinfits and am finding them hit and miss too.
> 
> not sure what to try next, am tempted by the mw08 sport, but the views on here seem a bit negative and the anc seems quite poor.


No experiences with the MW08(s), but if you can get your hands on some, I use the Final TWS tips on the Sonys and it made a world of difference.


----------



## Hearforthemusic

BooleanBones said:


> No experiences with the MW08(s), but if you can get your hands on some, I use the Final TWS tips on the Sonys and it made a world of difference.


Thanks for the advice. Will keep an eye out, at first glance not easy to grab in UK


----------



## assassin10000

Hearforthemusic said:


> Thanks for the advice. Will keep an eye out, at first glance not easy to grab in UK


Buy with an e500 or e1000?


----------



## BooleanBones

Hearforthemusic said:


> Thanks for the advice. Will keep an eye out, at first glance not easy to grab in UK


This is where I (as well as others here) bought ours from:

https://www.mtmtaudio.com/collectio...-for-true-wireless-bluetooth-earphone-2-pairs


----------



## darveniza

darveniza said:


> TWS are becoming a problem as traditional IEM's , current picture did not include my Grados as my son is using them
> 
> As of today,
> 
> ...





darveniza said:


> CA MT
> B&O
> STW2
> AKG
> ...





darveniza said:


> TWS are becoming a problem as traditional IEM's , current picture did not include my Grados as my son is using them UPDATED A FEW THINGS AFTER A LONG FLIGHT, the noise  canceling of the B&O and Devialet surprise me vs the Sony. I tested by comparing not only passive and active noise canceling  or reduction but also with music evaluating  how could the instrument reproduction  be impacted or not.
> 
> As of today,
> 
> ...





darveniza said:


>


----------



## bladefd

bladefd said:


> Bit disappointed in CA.. I sent in the Melomania Touch for RMA, and they sent me the 1+.. Someone must have screwed up because the email from the RMA department and shipping label both say "Melomania Touch".. I didn't open the 1+ and put them back in the UPS box. Emailed them back to see what the heck happened.
> 
> It's not an easy mistake to make unless if you are not familiar with the product line. I guess mistakes happen, but I hope someone doesn't get in trouble for this. This still cannot happen though. It's inexcusable.


^ CA made a mistake but correcting it by sending out an MT. They were kind enough to let me keep the 1+ too since it was their mistake. I was surprised by them going above and beyond to correct their mistake. Very good customer support!


----------



## bladefd

scubaphish said:


> I got my MT yesterday and after spending so much time with the Gemini, I found them somewhat in contrast. To your point, and maybe because the Gemini are simply more mid/high present, I found the MT to have those same frequencies to be recessed. I wouldn’t call the MT bass forward, but to my ears at least, I want to say less clarity than the Gemini; but maybe it’s not clarity, as the SQ was definitely there. Sparkle, is that was it is? I perceived similar “veiling” of those frequencies as I did with the PI7. At least here I can EQ it, but I wasn’t expecting the eq settings I was ending up with.


I think the price is the big factor to consider. MT is $130, Gemini is $300. I would expect Gemini to be better for sure.

Considering the number of comparisons between MT & Gemini with the former coming close to the latter at less than half the cost.. I think that actually says a lot about the MT.


----------



## scubaphish

bladefd said:


> I think the price is the big factor to consider. MT is $130, Gemini is $300. I would expect Gemini to be better for sure.
> 
> Considering the number of comparisons between MT & Gemini with the former coming close to the latter at less than half the cost.. I think that actually says a lot about the MT.


Yeah, totally fair point. I just happen to be comparing everything I’m getting these days as I choose one to keep.


----------



## pitch_black

My case of the EQ isn’t completely lined-up/flush in the front (upper to lower half). It gives me the impression it’s not closing as much as it should. Has anyone of you EQ owners the same issue?


----------



## BooleanBones

pitch_black said:


> My case of the EQ isn’t completely lined-up/flush in the front (upper to lower half). It gives me the impression it’s not closing as much as it should. Has anyone of you EQ owners the same issue?


Not for me. Maybe post a picture of what you are seeing? Might generate some additional thoughts on what you should do.


----------



## pitch_black

BooleanBones said:


> Not for me. Maybe post a picture of what you are seeing? Might generate some additional thoughts on what you should do.



It’s the middle of the night, I’ll try to make a close up tomorrow (today 😳) with better light.
Let’s say you if you swipe with the finger on the backside of the case there is no edge noticeable. If I do it on the right side of the front there is one and a much stronger one on the left side of the front.


----------



## gwompki

I'm just getting caught up here.  Interesting to see the EQs getting so much love.  Any weird quirks or issues?  Is the battery living up to the 6.5 hours advertised?  I might be willing to plunk down the cash for 6.5 hours of ANC.  

Also curious if there any reviews out there that line up with real world HeadFi experiences?  Most mainstream TWS reviews drive me crazy because they are tech consumer focused vs audio focused.

Last question.  Is everyone ordering directly from B&O or another retailer?


----------



## BooleanBones

gwompki said:


> I'm just getting caught up here.  Interesting to see the EQs getting so much love.  Any weird quirks or issues?  Is the battery living up to the 6.5 hours advertised?  I might be willing to plunk down the cash for 6.5 hours of ANC.
> 
> Also curious if there any reviews out there that line up with real world HeadFi experiences?  Most mainstream TWS reviews drive me crazy because they are tech consumer focused vs audio focused.
> 
> Last question.  Is everyone ordering directly from B&O or another retailer?


Not sure if I have seen any real reviews and like you I would probably take them with a big grain of salt outside of feature discussions. I haven't tested to the full extent, but battery life is solid. Will try and do that to see how much I can get, but a bit busy this weekend so we'll see. I think B&O is the only place at this point due to newness. They ship next day once they prepare it with their third party logistics (Wisconsin).


----------



## aldinho878

Are the beoplay EQ larger than than the E8 3rd gen? How do they compare in size to the Sony xm4 or mw08 for example


----------



## HaliHarry

BooleanBones said:


> Not to throw a variable in the mix, but the B&O EQ have really good SQ in my opinion. I actually think they fill a couple of the shortcomings of the PI7s (coming from a B&W fanboy). Great case and a handy sound adjustment "wheel". I don't have the ears as some of the folks here, but the clarity of them is very nice. Listened to them for a few hours last night, and I was pretty impressed. Definitely a noticeable difference when I switched to the XM4s and T5 IIs and listened to the same tracks. They don't have the features the other two have though, but so far pretty good ANC (Adaptive). I will listen to them some more today and try to get a better comparison of the three.


I'm looking for a TWS have a rich and emotive vocal. I already have Pi7 but i think their vocal is too thin and bass too much for me. So do you think  B&O EQ are suitable for me ??


----------



## HaliHarry

darveniza said:


> TWS are becoming a problem as traditional IEM's , current picture did not include my Grados as my son is using them
> 
> As of today,
> 
> ...


I really admire your tws colection. I already have PI7 but i dont like their thin vocal and too much kick on mid-bass, their soundstage is also not so wide. So can your share which one in your colection is suitable for my taste ?? Thanks alot


----------



## TK33

HaliHarry said:


> I really admire your tws colection. I already have PI7 but i dont like their thin vocal and too much kick on mid-bass, their soundstage is also not so wide. So can your share which one in your colection is suitable for my taste ?? Thanks alot


Seems like the Gemini are pretty popular these days. From what i have read, I think it also has EQ so you can tailor the sound to your preferences.  Wish B&W and M&D would build in EQ as well. Wanted to try one myself but couldn't get past the size of the case and pretty happy with the PI7s right now. May give you what you are looking for though.


----------



## HaliHarry

TK33 said:


> Seems like the Gemini are pretty popular these days. From what i have read, I think it also has EQ so you can tailor the sound to your preferences.  Wish B&W and M&D would build in EQ as well. Wanted to try one myself but couldn't get past the size of the case and pretty happy with the PI7s right now. May give you what you are looking for though.


I used to listen Gemini but i think its bass is too strong blur the mids even i set eq -6db bass  i heard about the new B&O tws and i'm looking for more recommend of them because the price is too expensive


----------



## tiagopinto

bladefd said:


> I think the price is the big factor to consider. MT is $130, Gemini is $300. I would expect Gemini to be better for sure.
> 
> Considering the number of comparisons between MT & Gemini with the former coming close to the latter at less than half the cost.. I think that actually says a lot about the MT.



Most definitely. The MT are always compared, sound quality wise, with others at twice the price. That’s been one of their strong suits. They may fall a little short in some aspects, but for the people who, like me, believe that with the current tech TWS should be kept at a low budget, these are a definite bargain.


----------



## Juturna

gwompki said:


> I'm just getting caught up here.  Interesting to see the EQs getting so much love.  Any weird quirks or issues?  Is the battery living up to the 6.5 hours advertised?  I might be willing to plunk down the cash for 6.5 hours of ANC.
> 
> Also curious if there any reviews out there that line up with real world HeadFi experiences?  Most mainstream TWS reviews drive me crazy because they are tech consumer focused vs audio focused.
> 
> Last question.  Is everyone ordering directly from B&O or another retailer?


I also think most reviews are way too focused on the tech. I know that a lot of people don't really care much about how the music sounds but are more practical in nature so they want the best tech possible. But i'd rather take superb sound and mediocre tech than mediocre sound and superb tech in a pair of TWS earbuds. Mediocretech in this case does not mean "constant cutouts every 5 seconds" btw, if it's THAT bad i'd rather take the mediocre sound.

I mean, I know some people say "well, TWS earbuds aren't audiophile by nature because of lossy codecs blahblah if you want real audiophile sound you would get wired cans or IEM's!" but that's sort of at the point where they lose me because I listen to a lot of my music on the run, and wires are annoying and distracting to me unless i'm sitting in a chair at home, so obviously I want the best sound possible from the product I'll use the most for my music listening. 
Sometimes I do think about getting a pair of wired IEM's to see what i've been missing out on, because it's been probably 5-6 years ago I last used a pair of DECENT wired earbuds, so I can't remember how they compare to a set of expensive TWS's


----------



## chinmie

this is interesting, it says that it uses bone conduction, might be useful for runners and bike riders



https://a.aliexpress.com/_mKfVqcn


----------



## scubaphish (Aug 27, 2021)

Juturna said:


> I also think most reviews are way too focused on the tech. I know that a lot of people don't really care much about how the music sounds but are more practical in nature so they want the best tech possible. But i'd rather take superb sound and mediocre tech than mediocre sound and superb tech in a pair of TWS earbuds. Mediocretech in this case does not mean "constant cutouts every 5 seconds" btw, if it's THAT bad i'd rather take the mediocre sound.
> 
> I mean, I know some people say "well, TWS earbuds aren't audiophile by nature because of lossy codecs blahblah if you want real audiophile sound you would get wired cans or IEM's!" but that's sort of at the point where they lose me because I listen to a lot of my music on the run, and wires are annoying and distracting to me unless i'm sitting in a chair at home, so obviously I want the best sound possible from the product I'll use the most for my music listening.
> Sometimes I do think about getting a pair of wired IEM's to see what i've been missing out on, because it's been probably 5-6 years ago I last used a pair of DECENT wired earbuds, so I can't remember how they compare to a set of expensive TWS's


I tried using my shure e530 again during my switch from over ears to TWS and while they sounded great, they brought back memories of buds getting pulled out by being connected to wires. I realize the convenience factor of TWS is not lost on me


----------



## Tommy C

Juturna said:


> I also think most reviews are way too focused on the tech. I know that a lot of people don't really care much about how the music sounds but are more practical in nature so they want the best tech possible. But i'd rather take superb sound and mediocre tech than mediocre sound and superb tech in a pair of TWS earbuds. Mediocretech in this case does not mean "constant cutouts every 5 seconds" btw, if it's THAT bad i'd rather take the mediocre sound.
> 
> I mean, I know some people say "well, TWS earbuds aren't audiophile by nature because of lossy codecs blahblah if you want real audiophile sound you would get wired cans or IEM's!" but that's sort of at the point where they lose me because I listen to a lot of my music on the run, and wires are annoying and distracting to me unless i'm sitting in a chair at home, so obviously I want the best sound possible from the product I'll use the most for my music listening.
> Sometimes I do think about getting a pair of wired IEM's to see what i've been missing out on, because it's been probably 5-6 years ago I last used a pair of DECENT wired earbuds, so I can't remember how they compare to a set of expensive TWS's


Funny you mentioned this since in the last 2 weeks since I’m waiting for some new TWS to arrive I went back to using some multi-drivers IEMs and they all sound so so good in general and very effortless especially when it comes to imagining. 
it’s less of an “issue” on the go because I don’t need the sq for critical listening when out and about but at home it’s a different story.


----------



## TK33 (Aug 27, 2021)

scubaphish said:


> I tried using my shure e530 again during my switch from over ears to TWS and while they sounded great, they brought back memories of buds getting pulled out by being connected to wires. I realize the convenience factor of TWS is not lost on me


Definitely for on the go, especially when you need to wear a mask and, sometimes in my case, glasses, there just isn't enough room behind my ears for my SE846.

Ears recently started getting blocked up after 20+ years of IEM use so ended up trying to get my ears cleaned out, which they did bit also left me with inflammation in my left ear (couldnt hear for a week) and an infection in the right.  Have my hearing back now luckily bur the whole experience has brought me back to over ears (have been using my Aonic 50s more the last few weeks).  Also, maybe it is a sign that I am satisfied with my TWS collection for now but I have now been more focused on my desktop setup (just purchased an RME ADI-2 from someone on headfi and will be digging my Aeon 2 Noires out of storage today).  I have also found myself using the SE846 more at home again these days. For now, I think my daily drivers will be as follows:

TWS (music on the go): B&W PI7
TWS (calls): Samsung Galaxy Buds Live
TWS (workout, grilling, doing things around the apartment): MW07 Go (essentially my "beater" pair)
Over Ear wireless: Aonic 50
IEM: Shure SE846 (with Dragonfly Cobalt or Qudelix 5K) - usually keep in backpack and use at the office.
Home desktop: Dan Clark Audio Aeon 2 Noire

Long story short, I think each serves a purpose. For on the go, it will definitely be TWS as you just cannot beat convenience (for both music and calls).


----------



## clerkpalmer (Aug 27, 2021)

TK33 said:


> Definitely for on the go, especially when you need to wear a mask and, sometimes in my case, glasses, there just isn't enough room behind my ears for my SE846.
> 
> Ears recently started getting blocked up after 20+ years of IEM use so ended up trying to get my ears cleaned out, which they did bit also left me with inflammation in my left ear (couldnt hear for a week) and an infection in the right.  Have my hearing back now luckily bur the whole experience has brought me back to over ears (have been using my Aonic 50s more the last few weeks).  Also, maybe it is a sign that I am satisfied with my TWS collection for now but I have now been more focused on my desktop setup (just purchased an RME ADI-2 from someone on headfi and will be digging my Aeon 2 Noires out of storage today).  I have also found myself using the SE846 more at home again these days. For now, I think my daily drivers will be as follows and the rest will remain in my closer:
> 
> ...



Nice collection.  I am running the Aeon X Closed from Massdrop and love them.  Have been thinking about the Open X version as well.  I personally find the midfi ($500 ish) the sweet spot for full size cans.  Like you, I prefer over ears to IEMs.  I can tolerate most TWS because they have a shallow fit.  Traditional IEMs with deep fit don't work for me for a variety of reasons.  My only question for you is why baby the PI7?  They can probably handle workouts and "beater" duty unless it's a fit issue.  I've started using the more expensive stuff in all settings because life is short and I'll probably move on from them in 6 months anyway so why bother listening to sub par stuff even for exercise etc.  Off track a bit but has anyone seen the new Yamaha ANC headphones?  They offer some spatial audio features.  I wonder how they might compare to the Aonic, Panda, APM?  I'm intrigued but not $500 intrigued.


----------



## scubaphish

Can I say that as much as I love the sound on these Gemini, I’m a little disappointed in battery life? Probably not a deal breaker, but just saying. Are others getting much more than 4 hours out of right bud?

looking forward to comparing to Sony later today/over weekend, then MW08 should be here Monday. The EQ are incredibly tempting


----------



## BooleanBones

scubaphish said:


> Can I say that as much as I love the sound on these Gemini, I’m a little disappointed in battery life? Probably not a deal breaker, but just saying. Are others getting much more than 4 hours out of right bud?
> 
> looking forward to comparing to Sony later today/over weekend, then MW08 should be here Monday. The EQ are incredibly tempting


I noticed the same. Can almost watch the percent disappear


----------



## TK33

clerkpalmer said:


> Nice collection.  I am running the Aeon X Closed from Massdrop and love them.  Have been thinking about the Open X version as well.  I personally find the midfi ($500 ish) the sweet spot for full size cans.  Like you, I prefer over ears to IEMs.  I can tolerate most TWS because they have a shallow fit.  Traditional IEMs with deep fit don't work for me for a variety of reasons.  My only question for you is why baby the PI7?  They can probably handle workouts and "beater" duty unless it's a fit issue.  I've started using the more expensive stuff in all settings because life is short and I'll probably move on from them in 6 months anyway so why bother listening to sub par stuff even for exercise etc.  Off track a bit but has anyone seen the new Yamaha ANC headphones?  They offer some spatial audio features.  I wonder how they might compare to the Aonic, Panda, APM?  I'm intrigued but not $500 intrigued.


My wife started complaining about open backs so I have had to stick with closed back for now.  The Aeons are great and super comfortable for me.  I posted this in the Noire thread last night too but I can literally put them on for hours and just get lost in my music.  I like the "mid-fi' price point.  Am reserving the higher dollars for my music room I told my wife the next house has to have.  Been pretty happy in the sub 1k range in general in this hobby and don't really have the urge to spend more than that for a pair of headphones.

Back to your question:

1. IPX rating - I sweat a lot and am being cautious in case I drop them in water while cleaning the patio or car or watering my garden, which has happened.  You are probably right and I am most likely being overly cautious. My MW07 Go are on their last legs anyway (recently had to get a rocket science degree just to reconnect the left and right earbuds). 
2. Habit (obviously have had the MW07 Gos for much longer since I bought them at launch) so they have been my workout buds for the last 2 years or so.  I also don't mind their more v shaped sound for working out.

The way this tech is advancing, my PI7s will likely replace my MW07 Go as the workout buds in the next year and I will be babying something else.


----------



## cresny

scubaphish said:


> Can I say that as much as I love the sound on these Gemini, I’m a little disappointed in battery life? Probably not a deal breaker, but just saying. Are others getting much more than 4 hours out of right bud?
> 
> looking forward to comparing to Sony later today/over weekend, then MW08 should be here Monday. The EQ are incredibly tempting


Yup, at least with ANC. I resort to full-size cans for work and have the case on a wireless charging pad most of the day, so I can live with it. But it does make me keep my eye out for a tag-team backup that has the same level of ANC or better (so I can ease away from the full-size), maybe the xm4 when holiday sales hit.


----------



## scubaphish

cresny said:


> Yup, at least with ANC. I resort to full-size cans for work and have the case on a wireless charging pad most of the day, so I can live with it. But it does make me keep my eye out for a tag-team backup that has the same level of ANC or better (so I can ease away from the full-size), maybe the xm4 when holiday sales hit.


Understood. Just ran right side to 0…with fall back of the APP or B&W PX


----------



## BobJS

Got MT in.  Can't really get a good seal with the included large tips, though if I hold them in place, I can see the sound is pretty good.  I found a few tips I had around that gave me good sound, but nothing I can get to sit in the case on the contacts.  

So that's my challenge going forward.

Initial pairing and updating gave me more trouble than I've ever had before with a bluetooth set, but I got past it.


----------



## clerkpalmer

B&O EQ ordered yesterday at 2pm ET.  Arrived at my door today at 10AM.  M&D are you listening?  That is how you deliver a premium product to your customers!


----------



## bladefd

BobJS said:


> Got MT in.  Can't really get a good seal with the included large tips, though if I hold them in place, I can see the sound is pretty good.  I found a few tips I had around that gave me good sound, but nothing I can get to sit in the case on the contacts.
> 
> So that's my challenge going forward.
> 
> Initial pairing and updating gave me more trouble than I've ever had before with a bluetooth set, but I got past it.


Try the Epro extra large. I just ordered their large version, but noticed in passing that they have extra large too.


----------



## Juturna

Just got my hands on some SoundPeats H1's, first impressions are honestly very good. If they had an app where you could EQ them I'd think these were RIDONCULOUS value.  
First impressions soundwise: Honestly a better first impression than the MTW2's and the XM4's. if we're talking stock sound without any EQ at least.
They lack the tech of either, obviously, but they sound pretty damn good.
Main issue being the bass, there's just... too much of it. It's has dual drivers so the mids still sound very clear despite the bass, but the bass is distracting because it's just a smooth mid-bass bump that's not fast nor punchy, it just simmers around and manages to sound bloated even though it thankfully doesn't bleed into the mids too much. It's still a bit distracting and it can make some bass lines sound less distinguished because you lose a bit of the natural characteristics of it and it can sound a bit one-note because of it. 
They're very mid-forward to my ears at least, and I feel like vocals take the center-stage here. 

The entire earbud experience could be summed up as "smooth", because the highs are also very inoffensive (too inoffensive in stock tuning). They're there, the clarity is good, but it doesn't sparkle at all. 
Soundstage is honestly pretty impressive, above average at least. 

I paid around $60 for them, and for that price they're a downright steal! Ironically I wish they would've tuned the bass more like the SoundPeats T2, that happen to have pretty fast bass but sounds pretty 'meh' otherwise. They also support wireless charging which is nice to see at this price. If they ANC and a slightly less boomy bass they'd be a no-brainer for the price. 

I've unfortunately heard that the drivers on these tend to give out after awhile so they might not have the best longevity, but I bought them to basically tide me over while I wait for my MTW2's to come back from repairs as I might sell my Sony XM4's soon.


----------



## Tommy C

Some toys have arrived. Gonna keep me busy for the weekend.


----------



## scubaphish (Aug 27, 2021)

scubaphish said:


> Can I say that as much as I love the sound on these Gemini, I’m a little disappointed in battery life? Probably not a deal breaker, but just saying. Are others getting much more than 4 hours out of right bud?
> 
> looking forward to comparing to Sony later today/over weekend, then MW08 should be here Monday. The EQ are incredibly tempting


These Sony XM4 with Final Type E TWS tips sound pretty damn good!

think I’m in the midst of a firmware update, too.


----------



## BobJS

bladefd said:


> Try the Epro extra large. I just ordered their large version, but noticed in passing that they have extra large too.



Thanks.  They're on order.


----------



## BooleanBones

scubaphish said:


> These Sony XM4 with Final Type E TWS tips sound pretty damn good!
> 
> think I’m in the midst of a firmware update, too.


 I like them with the "Excited" setting for most stuff I listen too


----------



## scubaphish

BooleanBones said:


> I like them with the "Excited" setting for most stuff I listen too


I’ll try that out, thanks. Have it manually set now. 
have to use another phone to update firmware…crashes with iOS 15 d’oh!


----------



## BigZ12

scubaphish said:


> have to use another phone to update firmware…crashes with iOS 15 d’oh!


A new firmware for XM4?? Version nr?


----------



## clerkpalmer

B&O EQ hmmm .... better than PI7?


----------



## scubaphish

BigZ12 said:


> A new firmware for XM4?? Version nr?


I just got them and they need 1.2.6


----------



## clerkpalmer

clerkpalmer said:


> B&O EQ hmmm .... better than PI7?


Anyone running these with Aptx adaptive or try to force aptxhd?


----------



## BooleanBones

clerkpalmer said:


> B&O EQ hmmm .... better than PI7?


I thought so. Definitely from an overall flexibility and quality perspective. It's been a bit since I listened to the PI7s, but I would say they sound better to my ears than the PI7s did. Probably close though. I never used/had much use for the case audio relay of the PI7s, but it was a cool idea.


----------



## clerkpalmer

BooleanBones said:


> I thought so. Definitely from an overall flexibility and quality perspective. It's been a bit since I listened to the PI7s, but I would say they sound better to my ears than the PI7s did. Probably close though. I never used/had much use for the case audio relay of the PI7s, but it was a cool idea.


I think I agree that the overall tuning is really spot on. Using spin fits and they sound really awesome.


----------



## BooleanBones

clerkpalmer said:


> I think I agree that the overall tuning is really spot on. Using spin fits and they sound really awesome.


I haven't tried any other outside of the Finals so far, but rock solid so far. Also like the simplicity of easily retuning something you need to adjust. I have become quite lazy listening to earbuds now and don't like to constantly jack around with a traditional EQ unless I am bored  Battery life is also much better than PI7s. I will try and use aptxHD this weekend if I get time.


----------



## clerkpalmer

BooleanBones said:


> I haven't tried any other outside of the Finals so far, but rock solid so far. Also like the simplicity of easily retuning something you need to adjust. I have become quite lazy listening to earbuds now and don't like to constantly jack around with a traditional EQ unless I am bored  Battery life is also much better than PI7s. I will try and use aptxHD this weekend if I get time.


Agreed.  The approach to the EQ is genius.  I have a pixel here with AptxHD - I'm not sure if they will connect or not.  I'll check it out too.


----------



## DJ XtAzY

scubaphish said:


> These Sony XM4 with Final Type E TWS tips sound pretty damn good!
> 
> think I’m in the midst of a firmware update, too.


I'm not sure if this was already mentioned, but do the Final Type E tips work well with your Gemini?


----------



## scubaphish (Aug 27, 2021)

DJ XtAzY said:


> I'm not sure if this was already mentioned, but do the Final Type E tips work well with your Gemini?


Yes they fit, and funny you should ask as I’m currently swapping back and forth between my final (L) and stock (M) to see which stay in better. Often wonder if I should have gotten medium finals.

edit: seems like the Gemini want to be seated further into my ear canal than the Sony, hence the size question. The L work great on the Sony.
Sound with final on Gemini sounds good though


----------



## scubaphish

scubaphish said:


> I’ll try that out, thanks. Have it manually set now.
> have to use another phone to update firmware…crashes with iOS 15 d’oh!


I think the Sony sound really really good…better than I expected. But is it fair to say the Gemini feel more dynamic to me?


----------



## clerkpalmer

scubaphish said:


> But is it fair to say the Gemini feel more dynamic to me?


Most definitely.  I liked the Sony too but the LDAC didn't make up for the fact that they still don't sound better than the Gemini, PI7, T5II ANC and now the EQ.


----------



## BooleanBones

clerkpalmer said:


> Most definitely.  I liked the Sony too but the LDAC didn't make up for the fact that they still don't sound better than the Gemini, PI7, T5II ANC and now the EQ.


Where the Sony's shine out of that group I think are the features. Klipsch are the only ones comparable in that category. I absolutely love the touch hold ambient feature Sony uses, then the fade back in of audio (in case higher volume).


----------



## clerkpalmer

BooleanBones said:


> Where the Sony's shine out of that group I think are the features. Klipsch are the only ones comparable in that category. I absolutely love the touch hold ambient feature Sony uses, then the fade back in of audio (in case higher volume).


Agreed and shouldn't be overlooked.  If I needed one "do everything pair" for travel, work etc., the Sony would be the choice.  That said, I don't since I never leave the house.  So I'll take the improved SQ over the other features right now based on my priorities.


----------



## BooleanBones

clerkpalmer said:


> Agreed and shouldn't be overlooked.  If I needed one "do everything pair" for travel, work etc., the Sony would be the choice.  That said, I don't since I never leave the house.  So I'll take the improved SQ over the other features right now based on my priorities.


Right on. I am keeping mine for my travel utilities and then keep the EQs for when SQ is desired.


----------



## scubaphish (Aug 27, 2021)

clerkpalmer said:


> Agreed and shouldn't be overlooked.  If I needed one "do everything pair" for travel, work etc., the Sony would be the choice.  That said, I don't since I never leave the house.  So I'll take the improved SQ over the other features right now based on my priorities.


Very similar thought pattern, but I expressed the conclusion in my head as “features shmeatures”
In addition to the SQ of Gemini that I love, I took them out into the City yesterday and the ANC was remarkable both just walking around and in the subway.


----------



## clerkpalmer

scubaphish said:


> Very similar thought pattern, but I expressed the conclusion in my head as “features shmeatures”
> In addition to the SQ of Gemini that I love, I took them out into the City yesterday and the ANC was remarkable both just walking around and in the subway.


The ANC is really underrated. Right there with the bose and Sony. Maybe a notch below but waaaay better than the garbage "get me over" ANC offered by many others.


----------



## scubaphish

clerkpalmer said:


> The ANC is really underrated. Right there with the bose and Sony. Maybe a notch below but waaaay better than the garbage "get me over" ANC offered by many others.


Well said. Seems as though we aren’t alone in ANC props for Gemini. Saw this yesterday


----------



## clerkpalmer

scubaphish said:


> Well said. Seems as though we aren’t alone in ANC props for Gemini. Saw this yesterday



It's funny - in the world of $400 TWS, the Gemini is really a steal.  Probably deserve more buzz than they get.  Maybe they will up their game and offer a hi res version.


----------



## scubaphish

clerkpalmer said:


> It's funny - in the world of $400 TWS, the Gemini is really a steal.  Probably deserve more buzz than they get.  Maybe they will up their game and offer a hi res version.


And a smaller case


----------



## scubaphish

clerkpalmer said:


> It's funny - in the world of $400 TWS, the Gemini is really a steal.  Probably deserve more buzz than they get.  Maybe they will up their game and offer a hi res version.


I wonder how much the AptX license costs per unit


----------



## erockg

clerkpalmer said:


> It's funny - in the world of $400 TWS, the Gemini is really a steal.  Probably deserve more buzz than they get.  Maybe they will up their game and offer a hi res version.


Yeah, they really botched the Firmware early on.  Most TWS users ran away.  But man, the sound and ANC kept me obsessively emailing their customer support for a re-release date.  I repurchased after they fixed them and added their extended warranty after registering mine on their website.


----------



## erockg

Devialet Gemini EQ’d with Dynamic and turned up to 11 (not really).  Dare anyone to melt their face off with this song:


----------



## LordToneeus

erockg said:


> Devialet Gemini EQ’d with Dynamic and turned up to 11 (not really).  Dare anyone to melt their face off with this song:


Haven’t checked out the new EP, but have a listen to the new Nahtram.  It’s the rare instrumental metal band that I actually dig. Goooood stuff.


----------



## erockg

LordToneeus said:


> Haven’t checked out the new EP, but have a listen to the new Nahtram.  It’s the rare instrumental metal band that I actually dig. Goooood stuff.


I'll check it.  Thanks man.


----------



## erockg

Yes, I'm a glutton for punishment and bought these again.  The deal was too good.  They're on sale for $179 now, but better deal with the below.  Worth testing out...

"Newest and best Jaybird Vista 2 sport earbuds for $143.99 after stacking 2 promo codes in the shopping cart. Normal price is $199.99. I believe the promo codes also work for anything on the site (for 30% off).

Promo codes are:
RICHROLL20
SHRED10

Note: after applying the second code (SHRED10), my cart item was duplicated, but I could easily delete the duplicate and finish the purchase.

https://www.jaybirdsport.com/en-u...00928.html"


----------



## clerkpalmer

erockg said:


> Yes, I'm a glutton for punishment and bought these again.  The deal was too good.  They're on sale for $179 now, but better deal with the below.  Worth testing out...
> 
> "Newest and best Jaybird Vista 2 sport earbuds for $143.99 after stacking 2 promo codes in the shopping cart. Normal price is $199.99. I believe the promo codes also work for anything on the site (for 30% off).
> 
> ...


I am truly in awe of your dedication to this hobby. I may create a shrine honoring you. Impressive. The Vista is Probably bulletproof.


----------



## erockg

clerkpalmer said:


> I am truly in awe of your dedication to this hobby. I may create a shrine honoring you. Impressive. The Vista is Probably bulletproof.


If you do create one, please put a basket out from so I can collect cash.  Much obliged.  Ha ha!


----------



## darveniza

HaliHarry said:


> I really admire your tws colection. I already have PI7 but i dont like their thin vocal and too much kick on mid-bass, their soundstage is also not so wide. So can your share which one in your colection is suitable for my taste ?? Thanks alot


Agree on the thin side. I thought  it was something  with seal.

Would think MW, B&O and Devialet  maybe options.

Sony are " a maybe" due to your bass comment


----------



## clerkpalmer

darveniza said:


> Agree on the thin side. I thought  it was something  with seal.
> 
> Would think MW, B&O and Devialet  maybe options.
> 
> Sony are " a maybe" due to your bass comment


Devialet for Soundstage and clean bass.


----------



## HaliHarry

darveniza said:


> Agree on the thin side. I thought  it was something  with seal.
> 
> Would think MW, B&O and Devialet  maybe options.
> 
> Sony are " a maybe" due to your bass comment


I extremely love the signature sound of Technics AZ70. Unfortunately, their housing makes my ear hurt rapidly. So do you think in your colection have the other one has the same sound signature or near with Technics AZ70 ??


----------



## HaliHarry

clerkpalmer said:


> Devialet for Soundstage and clean bass.


Do you think Devialet is one of the most impact bass now. I am just sub-bass lover, i dont really like mid-bass too strong. Sorry about my difficult hobby :[[


----------



## darveniza

HaliHarry said:


> I extremely love the signature sound of Technics AZ70. Unfortunately, their housing makes my ear hurt rapidly. So do you think in your colection have the other one has the same sound signature or near with Technics AZ70 ??


AKG N400


----------



## Tommy C (Aug 28, 2021)

erockg said:


> Yes, I'm a glutton for punishment and bought these again.  The deal was too good.  They're on sale for $179 now, but better deal with the below.  Worth testing out...
> 
> "Newest and best Jaybird Vista 2 sport earbuds for $143.99 after stacking 2 promo codes in the shopping cart. Normal price is $199.99. I believe the promo codes also work for anything on the site (for 30% off).
> 
> ...


Glad to see you purchase them.
Was thinking of pulling the trigger on the Vista 2 but barely have any free time nowadays so tried to get some info here and didn’t see much discussions about them here.
looking forward to hear your take on them.


----------



## krenzler

B&O EQ measurements and sound clips. Looking at ANC, wind noise, tips, EQ presets etc. Just enable english subs.


----------



## HaliHarry

krenzler said:


> B&O EQ measurements and sound clips. Looking at ANC, wind noise, tips, EQ presets etc. Just enable english subs.



Can anyone tell me how a dip at 2k khz affects on sound signature of B&O EQ


----------



## scubaphish (Aug 28, 2021)

Is it possible to over tip-roll? 🤣 I’ve got final on my left ear and stock on right.

edit: experiment aborted


----------



## Juturna

scubaphish said:


> Is it possible to over tip-roll? 🤣 I’ve got final on my left ear and stock on right.


I mean if it sounds good to you *shrug* 

I've tried doing stuff like this and even if it sounds good I still feel so weird about having two different types of tips in my ears that I have to decide on one pair despite that it sounds better that way lol


----------



## Juturna

Has anyone done any demoing between the Nuratrue and the Sony WF-1000XM4's? I'm almost ready to let my XM4's go because even though they sound great they just don't manage to reach all the way to what I want, and I'm trying to find something around $200-250 that fit that bill. 

Now when the Nuratrue is getting (has gotten?) an update that will increase the maximum volume they seem like they could be pretty great, I think!


----------



## clerkpalmer

HaliHarry said:


> Do you think Devialet is one of the most impact bass now. I am just sub-bass lover, i dont really like mid-bass too strong. Sorry about my difficult hobby :[[


Others can chime in but the Gemini has lots of sub bass for a tws and is pretty clean in transition to mids.


HaliHarry said:


> Can anyone tell me how a dip at 2k khz affects on sound signature of B&O EQ


Yes it's noticeable. But easily addressed in the eq.


----------



## scubaphish (Aug 28, 2021)

clerkpalmer said:


> Others can chime in but the Gemini has lots of sub bass for a tws and is pretty clean in transition to mids.
> 
> Yes it's noticeable. But easily addressed in the eq.


I agree re: Gemini bass, strong, present, at sub but not overpowering to other frequencies. And that’s just on flat eq setting. 6db of room to increase (and decrease) at 80 and 125hz and 400…. Here’s the app eq for your reference.

edit: have to add, I personally feel there is little to no bass leakage


----------



## Hearforthemusic

Re the Gemini, it sounds like they’ve been getting some positive feedback, certainly over last few pages or so.
Do the owners think it’s an ok choice for workouts at the gym? Or not great?


----------



## tiagopinto

TK33 said:


> Definitely for on the go, especially when you need to wear a mask and, sometimes in my case, glasses, there just isn't enough room behind my ears for my SE846.
> 
> Ears recently started getting blocked up after 20+ years of IEM use so ended up trying to get my ears cleaned out, which they did bit also left me with inflammation in my left ear (couldnt hear for a week) and an infection in the right.  Have my hearing back now luckily bur the whole experience has brought me back to over ears (have been using my Aonic 50s more the last few weeks).  Also, maybe it is a sign that I am satisfied with my TWS collection for now but I have now been more focused on my desktop setup (just purchased an RME ADI-2 from someone on headfi and will be digging my Aeon 2 Noires out of storage today).  I have also found myself using the SE846 more at home again these days. For now, I think my daily drivers will be as follows:
> 
> ...



An off-topic but necessary and fitting comment. I’m also loving my A50. Never owned the SE846 but have tried them and LOVED them. If you get the chance you should try the THX Onyx, instead of the the Cobalt, with both Shures. Amazing results.


----------



## DJ XtAzY

clerkpalmer said:


> Devialet for Soundstage and clean bass.





HaliHarry said:


> Do you think Devialet is one of the most impact bass now. I am just sub-bass lover, i dont really like mid-bass too strong. Sorry about my difficult hobby :[[





clerkpalmer said:


> Others can chime in but the Gemini has lots of sub bass for a tws and is pretty clean in transition to mids.
> 
> Yes it's noticeable. But easily addressed in the eq.





scubaphish said:


> I agree re: Gemini bass, strong, present, at sub but not overpowering to other frequencies. And that’s just on flat eq setting. 6db of room to increase (and decrease) at 80 and 125hz and 400…. Here’s the app eq for your reference.
> 
> edit: have to add, I personally feel there is little to no bass leakage



I also agree on the bass. So far I prefer Gemini's bass over MT's. I can crank all the way to 6db if i really want to, but I currently have it set to 4db.



Hearforthemusic said:


> Re the Gemini, it sounds like they’ve been getting some positive feedback, certainly over last few pages or so.
> Do the owners think it’s an ok choice for workouts at the gym? Or not great?



I will be gyming with these too soon with a mix of weight lifting and tabata. Will let you know if these stay in place.


----------



## patrice58

I've purchased a pair of earbuds from a company I've purchased quite a lot of audio products from, starting with the excellent Resonates and onwards.

This is a review on the Avant Air from the company Rock Jaw Audio. A wireless pair of earbuds that offers incredible value.

This is my review and it it's free of any outside influence, no money has changed hands and no shady dealings have taken place.

Right onwards and upwards.

As you can see it comes fitted with eartips as standard but they can be removed but I wouldn't recommend it as it's a right pain trying to put them back.

It comes with the extremely short USB A to USB C connector but since must people have a normal sized charging cable it's fine to have as a backup.

If you have a wireless charger then you'll be right at home as the Avant Air's case also supports wireless charging.

Right the most important part of the review the sound. So what does it sound like? Well if truth be told it's a really fun sounding pair of earbuds. It's V shaped in it's sound signature which to be honest brings out the best in it's usage case. The custom drivers which by the way have liquid silicone and beryllium coatings have a incredible frequency response 15–40000Hz that means you hear nuances on tracks that you've heard many times before. The earbuds support AAC and AptX codecs.

The bass is impactful but not overwhelming. The treble might be slightly harsh to some people because of the overall sound signature but I haven't had any issues.

Soundstage as I've spoken briefly about above is absolutely beautiful. I feel the team at Rock Jaw have done themselves proud as I can tell they're not just thrown the kitchen sink at the development of these bad boys they've included the whole kitchen as well.

Battery life is another thing they've excelled at, with up to 12 hours in ear and 39 hours in the case. You'll definitely have enough to last you though the day and then some.

Connectivity is amazing, not once have I had any issues pairing with the Avant Air or any problems with it cutting out on my Android device with Bluetooth 5.0. The Avant Air supports Bluetooth 5.2 out the box.

The Avant Air comes with touch controls which control volume and voice assistant compatible.

It's also IPX5 water resistant.

Each earbud is 6.5 grams.

Here's where to purchase them https://rockjawaudio.com/products/avant-air


----------



## cresny (Aug 28, 2021)

Hearforthemusic said:


> Re the Gemini, it sounds like they’ve been getting some positive feedback, certainly over last few pages or so.
> Do the owners think it’s an ok choice for workouts at the gym? Or not great?


The Gemini fit into the concha by being angled against the antihelix with some buffeting support by the antitragus, and possess silicone tips and a relatively shallow fit. All of that makes them low pressure and comfortable at rest, but almost guarantees that they will loosen with movement and sweat.





However, a wild card is their Ear Active Matching, which compensates real-time for variations in the canal fit. In my experience this does work to mitigate the above.

So will they work at the gym? The answer, like almost all others in this forum is: Maybe, YEMV!


----------



## clerkpalmer

cresny said:


> The Gemini fit into the concha by being angled against the antihelix with some buffeting support by the antitragus, and possess silicone tips and a relatively shallow fit. All of that makes them low pressure and comfortable at rest, but almost guarantees that they will loosen with movement and sweat.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yeah they are pretty good at the gym provided you aren't running. Lifting and some cardio they should be fine.


----------



## Tommy C

Tommy C said:


> I have the Fiil CC2 coming in next week they might be a worthy replacement sq wise. I’ll share impressions after using them for a few days.



@erockg, so I have been using the CC2 for 24 hours and I'm impressed. 
Normally I despise the form factor and the earbud style shape but they are super comfortable in situations that I need to hear stuff around me and need to rest my ears in general. 
SQ is also excellent for what they are. They are definitely no bass monsters but they have crystal clear mids and highs while the bass is there it's more like a balance armature kind of bass if you know what I mean. 
The app is really good too and the case is hmm unique, and while I have no issues with it it has to lid so not sure how I feel about it. 
the review *here *by SCARBIR is really spot on in my opinion and pretty much exactly how I feel about them. 
For the $41 that I paid for them (on Amazon with coupon) they are a steal and very pleasant to listen to all day.
Will share some final impressions in the next few days.


----------



## Hearforthemusic

cresny said:


> The Gemini fit into the concha by being angled against the antihelix with some buffeting support by the antitragus, and possess silicone tips and a relatively shallow fit. All of that makes them low pressure and comfortable at rest, but almost guarantees that they will loosen with movement and sweat.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Incredible response. Thanks. Great info.


----------



## scubaphish (Aug 28, 2021)

Just got the MW08 and first impressions…they are some nice sounding, very fun buds. I think I’m really enjoying them. Thing is, I’m totally spoiled by an EQ now. If there was no EQ on other buds, these MW08 would be more tempting. But their tuning is fun and fits bunch of my music. Have to test more.
Of note, I feel like they draw more power for sound…finding myself turning volume up to get same punch

edit: maybe more detail in the Gemini? Don’t mean to sound like a broken record; just comparing and, well, maybe sharing inner monologue

like with MW there’s a bass sound, but with Gemini you can hear a bass being plucked to create the bass sound (Pink Floyd, Us and Them)

MW very comfortable fit, small and great looking…they’re very enjoyable 

edit 2: I can walk further away from source with Gemini than MW08


----------



## tgdc

scubaphish said:


> Is it possible to over tip-roll? 🤣 I’ve got final on my left ear and stock on right.
> 
> edit: experiment aborted


I don’t think so.  I’ve found my two ears have quite different shapes.  I tend to modify my tips to help them point in the correct orientation for each ear.  So it could be that you ears are different enough that they benefit from different tips.


----------



## cresny

scubaphish said:


> like with MW there’s a bass sound, but with Gemini you can hear a bass being plucked to create the bass sound (Pink Floyd, Us and Them)


While your on that note, same thing with Yes and Chris Squire: you can hear every rumbling, buzzing detail.


----------



## C_Lindbergh

It would make no sense to get the new Sennheiser CX plus unless  they are a upgrade from the MTW2 since the price of the latter has fallen since the release.


----------



## tgx78

A low latency earbuds from Tronsmart. 
It is being advertised as having 13mm driver so I had to check it out.


----------



## scubaphish

tgx78 said:


> A low latency earbuds from Tronsmart.
> It is being advertised as having 13mm driver so I had to check it out.


Case looks like something out of Tron movie


----------



## tgx78 (Aug 28, 2021)

scubaphish said:


> Case looks like something out of Tron movie






Haha yeah it does. Seems like a target market is gamers and such. Oh.. just noticed that it has a RGB glow as well  sound impressions will follow soon. Not sure if I can measure it on my IEC711.


----------



## dweaver

I haven't heard of Rockjaw in a long time  Those look interesting. Will watch for them and might give them a try


----------



## Tstorey

I’ve finally managed to order a Fiio UTWS3 with two pin adapters for my cosmic ears CIEMs. Genuinely excited by this as I always struggle with fit on one or other of my TWS (Jabra elite active 65t and MW07). This should resolve that issue nicely.


----------



## HaliHarry (Aug 29, 2021)

darveniza said:


> Agree on the thin side. I thought  it was something  with seal.
> 
> Would think MW, B&O and Devialet  maybe options.
> 
> Sony are " a maybe" due to your bass comment


Thank for your response.,can you tell me that compare MW08 and B&O, which one have wider soundstage and thinker vocal??


----------



## mottykytu

Hi. I have 2 question

1. How do you think the B&O B8 compare to Noble Falcon 2 , or the B&O EQ compare to Noble Falcon Pro?

2. Does DAC or DAP as important as before when listen music through True Wireless? many thanks !


----------



## TooFrank

I have a similar question: anybody having compared the SQ of the B&O EQ and the E8 3rd gen.? thanks a lot


----------



## erockg

TooFrank said:


> I have a similar question: anybody having compared the SQ of the B&O EQ and the E8 3rd gen.? thanks a lot


EQ sound way better than the E8 3rd gen.  Different animal.  Different drivers.  I prefer the EQ.  Better soundstage and clarity IMO.  More mics for calls and ANC.  BT 5.2.  Smaller beautiful case.  You can see all the specs on B&Os site.


----------



## darveniza

mottykytu said:


> Hi. I have 2 question
> 
> 1. How do you think the B&O B8 compare to Noble Falcon 2 , or the B&O EQ compare to Noble Falcon Pro?
> 
> 2. Does DAC or DAP as important as before when listen music through True Wireless? many thanks !





HaliHarry said:


> Thank for your response.,can you tell me that compare MW08 and B&O, which one have wider soundstage and thinker vocal??


I am inclined towards B&O based on some female vocals tracks I am listening to at this time


----------



## darveniza

mottykytu said:


> Hi. I have 2 question
> 
> 1. How do you think the B&O B8 compare to Noble Falcon 2 , or the B&O EQ compare to Noble Falcon Pro?
> 
> 2. Does DAC or DAP as important as before when listen music through True Wireless? many thanks !



I don't think Noble can compare realistically  with B&O EQ, completely  different  league. But biased as Noble tuning was not appealing to me.


----------



## Spie1904

Anyone experienced with small ear canals and concha area? I’m looking for a great gym wireless set (tws, neckband or even a BT Thing like the UTWS 3 with a wired IEM. I don’t have a budget as long as it’s super comfortable and suited for working out (running, gym workouts).


----------



## 100Pipers

Juturna said:


> Has anyone done any demoing between the Nuratrue and the Sony WF-1000XM4's? I'm almost ready to let my XM4's go because even though they sound great they just don't manage to reach all the way to what I want, and I'm trying to find something around $200-250 that fit that bill.
> 
> Now when the Nuratrue is getting (has gotten?) an update that will increase the maximum volume they seem like they could be pretty great, I think!


The nura update has arrived and they are now probably about a third louder than the xm4's.


----------



## clerkpalmer

Any EQ owners with fit issues? Tried multiple tips but they keep sliding around. The weight seems centered on the outside. Grrrr. Love these but they have to stay put!


----------



## BooleanBones

clerkpalmer said:


> Any EQ owners with fit issues? Tried multiple tips but they keep sliding around. The weight seems centered on the outside. Grrrr. Love these but they have to stay put!


I have not been using the provided tips. Will give them a whirl tomorrow and let you know.


----------



## assassin10000

Spie1904 said:


> Anyone experienced with small ear canals and concha area? I’m looking for a great gym wireless set (tws, neckband or even a BT Thing like the UTWS 3 with a wired IEM. I don’t have a budget as long as it’s super comfortable and suited for working out (running, gym workouts).


Depends on how well they'll sit in your ears but my old tronsmart spunky beats (ipx5) fit my smaller ears well. They're onyx free (ipx7) may also work too.


----------



## Tommy C

Spie1904 said:


> Anyone experienced with small ear canals and concha area? I’m looking for a great gym wireless set (tws, neckband or even a BT Thing like the UTWS 3 with a wired IEM. I don’t have a budget as long as it’s super comfortable and suited for working out (running, gym workouts).



currently using the FIIL T1XS and it’s the most comfortable TWS and earphones I have had in 10 years. The seal is superb and the tips are high quality from XS to L and work well. Their sound signature will suit the gym and their ambient sound works well. They are Chinese but don’t confuse them with the usual Chi-Fi. They are owned by Xiaomi and they tune their own sound and their management include some Chinese musicians 
Bought them for $30 after coupon on Amazon and they are a steal considering they have a very nice app for Android and IOS with equalizer and pre-sets. 
Let me know if you have any questions or would like some more pics.


----------



## erockg

100Pipers said:


> The nura update has arrived and they are now probably about a third louder than the xm4's.


How much louder are that than the previous firmware?  Mine were pretty low at max.


----------



## erockg

clerkpalmer said:


> Any EQ owners with fit issues? Tried multiple tips but they keep sliding around. The weight seems centered on the outside. Grrrr. Love these but they have to stay put!


I use Spinfits which work well, but will try ePros tonight.


----------



## kDbJ

Juturna said:


> Now when the Nuratrue is getting (has gotten?) an update that will increase the maximum volume they seem like they could be pretty great, I think!



Thank You, sir for this


erockg said:


> How much louder are that than the previous firmware?  Mine were pretty low at max.



On their website they state not only the base +6dB, but yet another +6dB (!) in the "High Gain Option" (with the death.. sorry: deaf disclaimer) 
Nuratrue low volume, mentioned in a many reviews, was the only con for me. Now, after update, I've ordered one.


----------



## Juturna

Demoed the Nuratrue and Beoplay EQ yesterday... both made my XM4's sound pretty crap in comparison honestly.

Was impressed with the Beoplay EQ especially, probably the best sounding TWS I've heard based on the very short time I had with them. They sound very natural and I thought I would hate their limited EQ but it was honestly pretty effective and the changes were very apparent and changed the character of the sound quite a lot. Liked 
that implementation way more than Sennheisers weird slider thingie. 
I didn't compare them to the earbuds that I previously thought sounded the best (the PI7's that I fwiw never owned so also have limited experiences with that), but these just sounded more relaxed and neutral to my ears but could still be EQ'd to output some serious bass if you wanted to (I preferred the EQ setting around the "bright" area though). 

The Nuratrue seems to be very good value for the money though, to my ears it didn't sound $200 worse than the Beoplay if I'll put it like that. I'm trying to sell my XM4's and get the Nuratrue for now, the price for the EQ's are just... not reasonable for my wallet right now. But yeah, the Nuratrue sounds good, really good even. It really made the profile so good that the mids and highs just sounded really good all the time, in a way that it honestly makes sense just having the immersion slider to change the bass impact, because nothing else felt like it needed any tweaks. I mean, I wish they would provide an EQ in the app anyway since some people could prefer a sound that still isn't ideal to their ears/hearing, but still... I would say that it's probably not necessary even if it was a bonus.


----------



## Juturna

Also, update on my time with the SoundPeats H1:  

I switched tips to some Comply Truegrips, and it tamed the bass down from waaayyyy too much and super bloated to being a bit tighter, but it's still very bassy in a way that I think a lot of people would enjoy, but it's not precisely my type of bass. But it helped the tonality of the bass come forward a tiny bit, so I can hear the bass strings in many songs with bass guitar, with the silicone tips even regular bass guitar almost sounded like an 808 or just a deep electronic bass lmao.

But my point being that except for that these sound _really _good. I hope more manufacturers start using dual and triple drivers in their earbuds because I can tell that it makes a pretty big difference in how clear the mids and highs sound despite the bass being as impactful as it is. After trying the Beoplay I thought it would be a pain going back to these and that they would make the music sound like crap, but honestly not the case at all. Some tracks sounded even better because they're very smooth and forgiving, so some less well-produced tracks sound good on these.
For the price I would easily recommend these for the ones who like thick bass but clear mids and highs. It's weird because I can't call them V-shaped exactly, or they aren't to my ears because it feels like the mids and highs are both similar in emphasis, it's just the bass that feels boosted.

I'm weirded out by Scarbir saying that these aren't for people who like bass when they're VERY bass heavy to me.



> "The bass is the least impressive part here. It doesn't extend very low and can miss that  sensation of a deep-diving, dark rumbling sub-bass. The *H1 focuses on the mid-bass mostly*, which presents itself with steady, gentle thumps you can just about feel. The bass could have been tighter, and the decay could have been a little quicker - the best-sounding competitors halfway 2021 strike a little faster"



I agree that it misses a bit on the lowest of frequencies, but I have to think that he didn't have a good fit if he said that it's "gentle thumps you can just about feel", because they dominate the sound, however I agree on the rest, it could've been a lot tighter and had quicker decay, and I agree about just about everything else in the review.

Also the passive noise isolation from these are pretty insane and aren't that far from some of the ANC earbuds i've tried, but obviously not in comparison to the best-in-class.


----------



## alchemical

Love for the Geminis is only growing but damn if I’m not sorely tempted by the EQs.


----------



## Juturna (Aug 30, 2021)

Oh yeah btw, has anyone had the chance to compare the Geminis and the Beoplay EQ?

Might put one of them on my wishlist for my birthday and I can’t try the Geminis unfortunately.
So it'd be nice to hear somebody compare the sound signatures etc.


----------



## scubaphish

Juturna said:


> Oh yeah btw, has anyone had the chance to compare the Geminis and the Beoplay EQ?
> 
> Might put one of them on my wishlist for my birthday and I can’t try the Geminis unfortunately.
> So it'd be nice to hear somebody compare the sound signatures etc.


I’ll try to summarize what I think I’ve read on the board. The EQ are considered to have better SQ but, and I quote @clerkpalmer “in a world of $400 earbuds, the Gemini are a steal at $300”


----------



## clerkpalmer (Aug 30, 2021)

scubaphish said:


> I’ll try to summarize what I think I’ve read on the board. The EQ are considered to have better SQ but, and I quote @clerkpalmer “in a world of $400 earbuds, the Gemini are a steal at $300”


The EQ have the edge in SQ but that's not a knock on the Gemini which sound excellent.  The Gemini to me have better fit and better ANC.  So I think a good case can be made that the Gemini are better overall even before considering the price.  If you have to have the best SQ get the EQ, otherwise the Gemini will satisfy 99.9% of buyers.

I have noticed a slight bit of static/distortion on some high end sounds on the EQ (like cymbals crashing).  Reminds me a little bit of issue that the MTW2 was using SBC between earbuds which was leading to some unpleasant distortion on the highs.  Made me wonder if that's how these are set up as well.  Aptx to the master but then SBC between buds.  I'm trying to figure out if its in the buds or the source material or perhaps connection issues.  Anyone else notice this?


----------



## BooleanBones

clerkpalmer said:


> The EQ have the edge in SQ but that's not a knock on the Gemini which sound excellent.  The Gemini to me have better fit and better ANC.  So I think a good case can be made that the Gemini are better overall even before considering the price.  If you have to have the best SQ get the EQ, otherwise the Gemini will satisfy 99.9% of buyers.
> 
> I have noticed a slight bit of static/distortion on some high end sounds on the EQ (like cymbals crashing).  Reminds me a little bit of issue that the MTW2 was using SBC between earbuds which was leading to some unpleasant distortion on the highs.  Made me wonder if that's how these are set up as well.  Aptx to the master but then SBC between buds.  I'm trying to figure out if its in the buds or the source material or perhaps connection issues.  Anyone else notice this?


I think that might be the same for me. I listen to a lot of vocal/unplugged music and I think I may be hearing the same thing, almost like they have a subtle clipping in them. I didn't get much time to check further this weekend, but will listen some more for it. I will post the track(s) I hear it on to see if it is the same.


----------



## clerkpalmer

BooleanBones said:


> I think that might be the same for me. I listen to a lot of vocal/unplugged music and I think I may be hearing the same thing, almost like they have a subtle clipping in them. I didn't get much time to check further this weekend, but will listen some more for it. I will post the track(s) I hear it on to see if it is the same.


Yes, that's how it sounds and it gets worse if you EQ in the highs.  Unfortunately, it's hard to "unhear" once you notice it.  My speculation is that this is the same thing that was noticed with the MTW2.  They are using an SBC connection between the buds themselves.  This would be an unfortunate development.


----------



## Tommy C

clerkpalmer said:


> Yes, that's how it sounds and it gets worse if you EQ in the highs.  Unfortunately, it's hard to "unhear" once you notice it.  My speculation is that this is the same thing that was noticed with the MTW2.  They are using an SBC connection between the buds themselves.  This would be an unfortunate development.


Argh that sucks. Hopefully they can’t fix it a firmware update and it’s not a hardware issue.


----------



## Tommy C

Just received the Melomania Touch. Let’s see if the hype is justified


----------



## 100Pipers

erockg said:


> How much louder are that than the previous firmware?  Mine were pretty low at max.


According to nura they increased volume by 6db and if you the apply the high gain mode you get another 6db. Before they where unusable when out and about, used them on London Underground last night, only needed just above 50% volume to listen in peace. Massive improvement.


----------



## clerkpalmer

Tommy C said:


> Just received the Melomania Touch. Let’s see if the hype is justified


No sane person couldn't like them for the money.


----------



## erockg

BooleanBones said:


> I think that might be the same for me. I listen to a lot of vocal/unplugged music and I think I may be hearing the same thing, almost like they have a subtle clipping in them. I didn't get much time to check further this weekend, but will listen some more for it. I will post the track(s) I hear it on to see if it is the same.


I had this issue a few times, but changed my tips and then altered my EQ setting.  Haven't heard anything since.  I'm using the ePros on them now, will report back if I hear any issues again...


----------



## erockg

clerkpalmer said:


> No sane person couldn't like them for the money.


I'm definitely insane.  Tempted to try them again, but after all the early bugs, I was completely turned off by them.  YES, the sound is great for sure!  That bass punch was/is awesome.


----------



## erockg

100Pipers said:


> According to nura they increased volume by 6db and if you the apply the high gain mode you get another 6db. Before they where unusable when out and about, used them on London Underground last night, only needed just above 50% volume to listen in peace. Massive improvement.


Awesome.  Just repurchased them.  That was my main problem with them -- the lack of volume.  Found a 10% off coupon online and here we go again!


----------



## BooleanBones

erockg said:


> I'm definitely insane.  Tempted to try them again, but after all the early bugs, I was completely turned off by them.  YES, the sound is great for sure!  That bass punch was/is awesome.


Yeah, they are great bang for the buck for sure. Great for yard work, etc.


----------



## Tommy C

Tommy C said:


> Just received the Melomania Touch. Let’s see if the hype is justified



Setting up was a breeze including the FW update once the app was install, however I was on two calls and both times was told my voice sounded hollow, unnatural and choppy. Need to test some more but this is a big bummer and might be a deal breaker. 
Anyone else having a similar experience with the Melomania Touch?


----------



## clerkpalmer

erockg said:


> I'm definitely insane.  Tempted to try them again, but after all the early bugs, I was completely turned off by them.  YES, the sound is great for sure!  That bass punch was/is awesome.


No issues or bugs for me. Pretty flawless including updates.


----------



## Tommy C

clerkpalmer said:


> No issues or bugs for me. Pretty flawless including updates.


Have you tested call quality by any chance?
The sq is very nice but boy, people are unable to hear me properly during calls.


----------



## BooleanBones

Tommy C said:


> Setting up was a breeze including the FW update once the app was install, however I was on two calls and both times was told my voice sounded hollow, unnatural and choppy. Need to test some more but this is a big bummer and might be a deal breaker.
> Anyone else having a similar experience with the Melomania Touch?


I never really use them for calls due to the limited number of mics (0) that are available when you use ambient mode.


----------



## Tommy C

BooleanBones said:


> I never really use them for calls due to the limited number of mics (0) that are available when you use ambient mode.


I noticed with the FW update they changed something with the Ambient mode to be switched off when call is initiated. Not sure if it makes any difference but I'm a bit bummed lol


----------



## clerkpalmer

Tommy C said:


> Have you tested call quality by any chance?
> The sq is very nice but boy, people are unable to hear me properly during calls.


I haven't.  Galaxy buds live are my go to for calls.


----------



## Tenlow

Another new firmware update just popped up in the M&D app for the MW08 Sport for anyone who owns them or is interested


----------



## BigZ12 (Aug 30, 2021)

Tenlow said:


> Another new firmware update just popped up in the M&D app for the MW08 Sport for anyone who owns them or is interested


Still very noticable difference in bass between Max ANC vs All day ANC/Off. (and Ambient Voice vs Awareness)
Still no EQ.
Still feels both Lypertek Z7 and Sony sound better 
Don't misunderstand me, I still like them, but I would like all modes to have the same sound signature. If they aren't, the EQ would be a God send...
I use All Day ANC when listening to music. Best sound for my taste.

*I've been tip rolling like a maniac lately, and found out the following:*
Lypertek Z7; are great with most medium sized (for me) tips, from both Final E Type, Spinfit CP360, JVC Spiral Dots and even the stock tips. Now I use the CP360 in medium.

Sony XM4; they sound best with Final E Type Large, but I have this noise problem in the left ear when chewing etc. Best compromise with comfort/fit/no noise/sound is actually the TW-200-C from Comply Foam. They are great. I use size Large. (M could be fine, but I don't have those)

M&D MW08S; found a really good match with Spinfit CP360 Large. Fit, comfort, sound and ANC are all good.

Lypertek Tevi; TW-200-C are very good for those as well. These are my working out buds. The "thump" noise when running is limited to minimum and sound is decent (lose a little bit of bass vs silicone tips, but they have EQ, so...)

Airpods Pro; ePro horn shaped nozzle eartips are still my go to tips for these.


----------



## Tommy C (Aug 31, 2021)

clerkpalmer said:


> No sane person couldn't like them for the money.


Agreed, after listening to them for a few hours they do sound good, and with that being said the Fiil T1XS definitely give them a run for the their money at around 1/4 of the price.
Without using the eq on both, the Fiil T1Xs sound signature is less colored but it's early to say as I'm still A/B'ing them here and there.

This is not to say the CA MT aren't worth it, they do, but the Fiil is just a steal and they punch way above their weight and have no business competing with the MT on price bracket alone but they sure do and it may come down to someone's sound preference.


----------



## Stefanmz7

hey so I was wondering between the Master and Dynamic MW07 Plus and the Sennheiser Momentum True Wireless 2 and my goal is the most natural sound with not too much base, good mids and highs and natural sounding vocals that are closer to you in the mix. So which one of those two should I choose? Because I read online that they both cover my expectations or at least the reviews say they do but the  MW ones have 10mm drivers and the Sennheisers have 7mm and I listen to music loud so bigger drivers are better? What do you think? Which one to go with?


----------



## scubaphish (Aug 30, 2021)

Tommy C said:


> Agreed, after listening to them for a few hours they do sound good, and with that being said the Fiil T1Xs definitely give them run for the their money at 1/4 of the price.
> Without using the eq on both, the Fiil T1Xs sound signature is less colored but it's early to say as I'm still A/B'ing them here and there.
> 
> This is not to say the CA MT aren't worth it, they do, but the Fiil is just a steal and they punch way above their weight and have no business competing with the MT on price bracket alone but they sure do and it may come down to someone's sound preference.


How are they on comfort/fit? I’m looking to replace my wife’s AirPods Pro, she finds them uncomfortable at the jaw. She tried on the MT and found them comfortable. You speak very highly of the sound quality (she’ll use mostly for podcasts and some music) and the white ones are like $27.50 on Amazon right now. Seems silly not to consider them. Thanks

EDIT: you answered that already 
“currently using the FIIL T1XS and it’s the most comfortable TWS and earphones I have had in 10 years”


----------



## clerkpalmer

Stefanmz7 said:


> hey so I was wondering between the Master and Dynamic MW07 Plus and the Sennheiser Momentum True Wireless 2 and my goal is the most natural sound with not too much base, good mids and highs and natural sounding vocals that are closer to you in the mix. So which one of those two should I choose? Because I read online that they both cover my expectations or at least the reviews say they do but the  MW ones have 10mm drivers and the Sennheisers have 7mm and I listen to music loud so bigger drivers are better? What do you think? Which one to go with?


I would go with MTW2 in this fight and you get an EQ option with them which you won't get with the Plus.  You get a little too much bass in the Senns but you can EQ it out and bump up the mids if needed.


----------



## LordToneeus

Tommy C said:


> Agreed, after listening to them for a few hours they do sound good, and with that being said the Fiil T1Xs definitely give them run for the their money at 1/4 of the price.
> Without using the eq on both, the Fiil T1Xs sound signature is less colored but it's early to say as I'm still A/B'ing them here and there.
> 
> This is not to say the CA MT aren't worth it, they do, but the Fiil is just a steal and they punch way above their weight and have no business competing with the MT on price bracket alone but they sure do and it may come down to someone's sound preference.


I still have and use my Fiil T1X.  I have no complaints with sound or fit.


----------



## jsmiller58

Tommy C said:


> Have you tested call quality by any chance?
> The sq is very nice but boy, people are unable to hear me properly during calls.


If you use the included MT wings, you may actually have the small mics blocked by the rubber sleeve.  The holes in those sleeves to accommodate the mics are very small and the alignment doesn’t have to be far off.  I may try enlarging the holes.


----------



## Reverriie

I like the Moondrop Sparks a lot, considering they're wireless. Not as good as wired options yet though, and that's not just a result of wireless lowering the quality, but the sound signatures of them in general.


----------



## potix (Aug 30, 2021)

B&W PI7 with 30% discount on amazon.co.uk and amazon.it warehouses. Final price for white ones ("used - very good", 4 items at the moment) on amazon.it is 227€.
On amazon.it also 20% discount for brand new. They are not available at the moment, I don't know if the discount will be applied when they are back in stock.


----------



## scubaphish

Tommy C said:


> Agreed, after listening to them for a few hours they do sound good, and with that being said the Fiil T1Xs definitely give them run for the their money at 1/4 of the price.
> Without using the eq on both, the Fiil T1Xs sound signature is less colored but it's early to say as I'm still A/B'ing them here and there.
> 
> This is not to say the CA MT aren't worth it, they do, but the Fiil is just a steal and they punch way above their weight and have no business competing with the MT on price bracket alone but they sure do and it may come down to someone's sound preference.


Ordered. Thanks for recommendation


----------



## DJ XtAzY (Aug 30, 2021)

Hearforthemusic said:


> Re the Gemini, it sounds like they’ve been getting some positive feedback, certainly over last few pages or so.
> Do the owners think it’s an ok choice for workouts at the gym? Or not great?





DJ XtAzY said:


> I will be gyming with these too soon with a mix of weight lifting and tabata. Will let you know if these stay in place.



Just to follow up on this when using Geminis at the gym. For me these don't work well for my ears since they constantly fall out of my ears when I'm doing intensive cardio. No issues if just lifting. I prefer the MTs and Galaxy Buds for workout sessions because of the wingtips.


----------



## BooleanBones

erockg said:


> I had this issue a few times, but changed my tips and then altered my EQ setting.  Haven't heard anything since.  I'm using the ePros on them now, will report back if I hear any issues again...


I used the ePros and Finals and cannot seem to replicate it using both usual (far right just up from energetic) and high treble settings. Will continue to listen, but I have to turn the treble down a bit as I think my ears are bleeding a little


----------



## BooleanBones

pitch_black said:


> It’s the middle of the night, I’ll try to make a close up tomorrow (today 😳) with better light.
> Let’s say you if you swipe with the finger on the backside of the case there is no edge noticeable. If I do it on the right side of the front there is one and a much stronger one on the left side of the front.


Mine seem even after looking closer at the case. Did you ever get any better pics of what is going on?


----------



## scubaphish

BooleanBones said:


> I noticed the same. Can almost watch the percent disappear


Been emailing with Devialet support about battery expectations. They said should get 4 hours with ANC on. I said Im lucky to get that with ANC off. To wit they said:
“…we are working on a firmware update to solve this battery issue which should be available in last quarter of the year.”


----------



## erockg

BooleanBones said:


> I used the ePros and Finals and cannot seem to replicate it using both usual (far right just up from energetic) and high treble settings. Will continue to listen, but I have to turn the treble down a bit as I think my ears are bleeding a little


Let me know what songs and I’ll try too. I heard it a few times when I first put the ePros on and now I can’t figure out what song.  At first I thought the ANC mic had something to do with it.  Searching…


----------



## BooleanBones

scubaphish said:


> Been emailing with Devialet support about battery expectations. They said should get 4 hours with ANC on. I said Im lucky to get that with ANC off. To wit they said:
> “…we are working on a firmware update to solve this battery issue which should be available in last quarter of the year.”


4? Their site says 6. lol


----------



## scubaphish

BooleanBones said:


> 4? Their site says 6. lol


Yeah, I was thinking the same. 🤣


----------



## erockg

scubaphish said:


> Been emailing with Devialet support about battery expectations. They said should get 4 hours with ANC on. I said Im lucky to get that with ANC off. To wit they said:
> “…we are working on a firmware update to solve this battery issue which should be available in last quarter of the year.”


Never a dull moment.  Sigh…


----------



## clerkpalmer

erockg said:


> Let me know what songs and I’ll try too. I heard it a few times when I first put the ePros on and now I can’t figure out what song.  At first I thought the ANC mic had something to do with it.  Searching…


Try 1000 July's - Third Eye Blind.  Perhaps its a crap recording?


----------



## BooleanBones

erockg said:


> Let me know what songs and I’ll try too. I heard it a few times when I first put the ePros on and now I can’t figure out what song.  At first I thought the ANC mic had something to do with it.  Searching…


You might be right. Best I could find today even close to thinking what I heard was around the 1 minute mark of Scorpions Unplugged Athens - Big City Nights on the drum beat. But that is reaching pretty hard I think. Let me try some settings on and off to see if I can find it. Before it was definitely on Scorpions Unplugged or Florence and the Machine Unplugged albums.


----------



## scubaphish

erockg said:


> Never a dull moment.  Sigh…


I’m still in Amazon return period. Was thinking of trying a different unit


----------



## Tommy C

scubaphish said:


> Ordered. Thanks for recommendation


No problem! If from Amazon I hope you got the coupon as well. 30% off for the black ones and the 45% for the white ones which makes it a ridiculous deal.


----------



## scubaphish

Tommy C said:


> No problem! If from Amazon I hope you got the coupon as well. 30% off for the black ones and the 45% for the white ones which makes it a ridiculous deal.


$27.50 (pretax)…ridiculous!! Couldn’t pass it up to at least try them.


----------



## Tommy C

jsmiller58 said:


> If you use the included MT wings, you may actually have the small mics blocked by the rubber sleeve.  The holes in those sleeves to accommodate the mics are very small and the alignment doesn’t have to be far off.  I may try enlarging the holes.



Thank you! I'll check it out and I really hope that's what it is as I'm using the wings.
I took a few calls using the MT and was unable to carry a conversation and when switched to the Fiil people were commented that I sounded perfect - all calls were indoors.


----------



## BooleanBones

clerkpalmer said:


> Try 1000 July's - Third Eye Blind.  Perhaps its a crap recording?


Listened to that with Adaptive off/on. Around 1:50 in I heard something which I guess could be it, also at the very end of the song it was a bit scratchy so hard to tell but maybe I guess. Have you guys made any correlation to listening time to when it happened? I think I was listening a couple hours in when I heard it initially. Wonder if something is warming up and degrading?


----------



## Tommy C

scubaphish said:


> $27.50 (pretax)…ridiculous!! Couldn’t pass it up to at least try them.


Indeed, awesome deal. 
They are super comfortable and very well made and their app while not perfect is very good and a rare sight to have an app for such a cheap set of TWS. 

Another interesting thing is that the app has the Burn-In feature which is basically 3000 minutes of pink noise played according to their process in different levels. 
Now, not to start a debate here if burn-in is legit or if it's  simply "brain-in", I was running it for the Fiil CC2 and the sound seems to changed a little after about 500 minutes of it, so maybe there is something to it.


----------



## clerkpalmer

BooleanBones said:


> Listened to that with Adaptive off/on. Around 1:50 in I heard something which I guess could be it, also at the very end of the song it was a bit scratchy so hard to tell but maybe I guess. Have you guys made any correlation to listening time to when it happened? I think I was listening a couple hours in when I heard it initially. Wonder if something is warming up and degrading?


It was toward the end. I'll get you guys a time on the track tomorrow for confirmation. I heard it on a few other tracks as well.


----------



## BooleanBones

clerkpalmer said:


> It was toward the end. I'll get you guys a time on the track tomorrow for confirmation. I heard it on a few other tracks as well.


I found the one I was thinking of that really stands out. Might not be a genre you like/listen to, but try out Lisa Stansfield - All Around the world.


----------



## erockg

BooleanBones said:


> You might be right. Best I could find today even close to thinking what I heard was around the 1 minute mark of Scorpions Unplugged Athens - Big City Nights on the drum beat. But that is reaching pretty hard I think. Let me try some settings on and off to see if I can find it. Before it was definitely on Scorpions Unplugged or Florence and the Machine Unplugged albums.


It’s very low, but sounded like the bass line to me.  Great album btw.  Added!


----------



## SoundChoice

Tommy C said:


> No problem! If from Amazon I hope you got the coupon as well. 30% off for the black ones and the 45% for the white ones which makes it a ridiculous deal.


This is a fantastic deal at 40% off a super TWS, the Fiil T1XS. I also compared them favorably to a current forum favorite back in March.

I guess I’m a basshead, and really tempted by the Gemini. You all are awful!


----------



## erockg

clerkpalmer said:


> Try 1000 July's - Third Eye Blind.  Perhaps its a crap recording?


Sounds like a little in the bass line too.  
I can hear some in this song:


----------



## Tommy C

scubaphish said:


> How are they on comfort/fit? I’m looking to replace my wife’s AirPods Pro, she finds them uncomfortable at the jaw. She tried on the MT and found them comfortable. You speak very highly of the sound quality (she’ll use mostly for podcasts and some music) and the white ones are like $27.50 on Amazon right now. Seems silly not to consider them. Thanks
> 
> EDIT: you answered that already
> “currently using the FIIL T1XS and it’s the most comfortable TWS and earphones I have had in 10 years”


Sorry, just catching up here and saw this. I know you already ordered but to me they are super comfortable and tiny. They also seal the best out of all TWS that I currently have. To me they sound more like $100+ set of TWS.

The Melomania Touch is technically better for maybe imagining but their sound is pretty colored which makes them sound more dynamic and the Fiil aren’t far behind. The T1XS are darker and the bass is more controlled. Some electronic music sounds a bit boomy on the MT while more true to life on the T1XS. 
I hope your wife will like them!


----------



## Caipirina

i relocated and found a new ANC challenge! 
Forget plane engines, Japanese summer cicadas are da Bomb! 
And so far the Bose QC earbuds are doing a better job with that frequency than the Sony XM4.


----------



## Tenlow

I just noticed two little "spots" on the inside of the MW08 Sport case. Almost look like scratches but they don't feel like scratches (but they don't go away when cleaning as well).

Can others who have the MW08S look into their case and see if these are also visible? Daylight works best (picture attached)

Thanks!


----------



## scubaphish

Tenlow said:


> I just noticed two little "spots" on the inside of the MW08 Sport case. Almost look like scratches but they don't feel like scratches (but they don't go away when cleaning as well).
> 
> Can others who have the MW08S look into their case and see if these are also visible? Daylight works best (picture attached)
> 
> Thanks!


Not exactly what you were asking for, as I only have a fairly new set of MW08, but no marks like that on/in case.


----------



## BigZ12

After the latest firmware update on MW08S, I get complaints about bad call-quality. Indistinct, crackling sound.
One of my friends also heard himself with an echo while talking to me. Switched to Airpods Pro, and no problems.
Anyone else with similar experience?


----------



## BigZ12

Tenlow said:


> I just noticed two little "spots" on the inside of the MW08 Sport case. Almost look like scratches but they don't feel like scratches (but they don't go away when cleaning as well).
> 
> Can others who have the MW08S look into their case and see if these are also visible? Daylight works best (picture attached)
> 
> Thanks!


No marks on mine.


----------



## erockg

BigZ12 said:


> After the latest firmware update on MW08S, I get complaints about bad call-quality. Indistinct, crackling sound.
> One of my friends also heard himself with an echo while talking to me. Switched to Airpods Pro, and no problems.
> Anyone else with similar experience?


Same here with the calls and also a beeping sound that M&D acknowledged was supposed to be fixed with the firmware update.  They’re sending me a replacement.  Here’s what they told me: “The "beeping" people are hearing on the other end should be resolved with the latest firmware version - 4.4.4.”  Sounds like you had your issue after the most recent update?  Not 4.4.4, right?


----------



## scubaphish

erockg said:


> Same here with the calls and also a beeping sound that M&D acknowledged was supposed to be fixed with the firmware update.  They’re sending me a replacement.  Here’s what they told me: “The "beeping" people are hearing on the other end should be resolved with the latest firmware version - 4.4.4.”  Sounds like you had your issue after the most recent update?  Not 4.4.4, right?


And I quote,


erockg said:


> Never a dull moment.  Sigh…


----------



## stormwrx (Aug 31, 2021)

Well, my short experience with the B&O Beoplay EQs confirms most of what others have said. Sound quality is, at best, marginally better than my Devialet Geminis. The Geminis have vastly better ANC, are less bulky, and fit my ears better. Unfortunately, the left bud on the Beoplay EQ died after a few hours of usage, cannot be factory reset, and will not charge - in fact, the charging indicator on the case keeps fluctuating, as if there is a short or something. These are going back to B&O for a refund, as even if they did work correctly, the sound quality improvement over the Gemini is not enough to justify the extra $100. Also, the EQs have very little volume headroom on my iPhone - they need to be at 80-90% for me, as opposed to needing to run the Gemini at 50-60%.


----------



## BigZ12

erockg said:


> Same here with the calls and also a beeping sound that M&D acknowledged was supposed to be fixed with the firmware update.  They’re sending me a replacement.  Here’s what they told me: “The "beeping" people are hearing on the other end should be resolved with the latest firmware version - 4.4.4.”  Sounds like you had your issue after the most recent update?  Not 4.4.4, right?


Sorry, posted too quickly before I troubleshot 
I don't have this beeping you mention, and I found out the cause of the bad mic quality.
I tested with Voice memo app on iPhone, and the mic got covered 'cause they are too far inside my ears?
CP360 tips are too shallow I guess? Tried taking them out a just a tiny bit, and then the sound of my voice was much better.

I have firmware 4.4.5.


----------



## Bhelpoori

New Jabras Incoming: Elite 7 and Elite 3... replacing the existing range.


----------



## LordToneeus

Bhelpoori said:


> New Jabras Incoming: Elite 7 and Elite 3... replacing the existing range.


Shut up.  Just shut up.  You had me at "Jabra."  You had me at "Jabra."


----------



## Tommy C

Bhelpoori said:


> New Jabras Incoming: Elite 7 and Elite 3... replacing the existing range.



Exciting. I always liked Jabra's products as they are very reliable and sound good in recent years.
This also means the Elite 85t may go down in price....


----------



## dasadab

Just a quick comment about the Devialet.  I have owned the B&W I7, and the Sony XM3s and 4.  I had been using the AirPod pros for calls and audiobooks due to the superior ANC and solid user experience.  Now, the Devialets have replaced the Airpods as my always carry IEMs.  IMHO, the sound is comparable to the i7s, significantly better to me than the Sonys, and the phone calls and connectivity are very very good.  I am not a bass head, but the depth and timber of the bass of the Devialets is very impressive.  The Sonys were technically excellent, but the fit and sound quality tipped the balance against keeping them.  I just had too many connectivity/dropping issues with the i7s.


----------



## clerkpalmer

stormwrx said:


> Well, my short experience with the B&O Beoplay EQs confirms most of what others have said. Sound quality is, at best, marginally better than my Devialet Geminis. The Geminis have vastly better ANC, are less bulky, and fit my ears better. Unfortunately, the left bud on the Beoplay EQ died after a few hours of usage, cannot be factory reset, and will not charge - in fact, the charging indicator on the case keeps fluctuating, as if there is a short or something. These are going back to B&O for a refund, as even if they did work correctly, the sound quality improvement over the Gemini is not enough to justify the extra $100. Also, the EQs have very little volume headroom on my iPhone - they need to be at 80-90% for me, as opposed to needing to run the Gemini at 50-60%.


Bummer about the battery.  It's funny how the Gemini were largely forgotten here for months have become a top 2 or 3 TWS.  Certainly can't disagree with your decision on the EQs or the reasons behind them.  I'm still trying to decide if the fit of the EQs is going to work for me.  Some days they work okay, some days less okay.  Depends on the activity.  Kind of like Klipsch I wish they had just put the wings on them rather than saving the "sport" model for later.


----------



## KopaneDePooj

Bhelpoori said:


> New Jabras Incoming: Elite 7 and Elite 3... replacing the existing range.



Great... just when I was saying that I would love a 85t in a 75t body, they come with this... Elite 7 Pro. Return to longer stem (85t very short), round eartip (85t oval). + same vented design. "frequency-dependent pressure relief vents" what the f does that mean!? Still... downgrade from 12 to 6mm drivers. Hmm... I think an Elite 8 Pro will follow with larger drivers. Maybe the 7 Pro replaces the 75t. I just hope they DON'T return to oval eartips and short stem if there will be an 8 Pro.
https://www.emea.jabra.com/bluetooth-headsets/jabra-elite-7-pro

Seems like the Elite 3 replaces the 65t. No ANC and no vents. Closed design with "big" bass.
https://www.emea.jabra.com/bluetooth-headsets/jabra-elite-3##100-91410700-98

And the 7 Active is... well, active-oriented
https://www.emea.jabra.com/bluetooth-headsets/jabra-elite-7-active


----------



## erockg (Aug 31, 2021)

clerkpalmer said:


> Bummer about the battery.  It's funny how the Gemini were largely forgotten here for months have become a top 2 or 3 TWS.  Certainly can't disagree with your decision on the EQs or the reasons behind them.  I'm still trying to decide if the fit of the EQs is going to work for me.  Some days they work okay, some days less okay.  Depends on the activity.  Kind of like Klipsch I wish they had just put the wings on them rather than saving the "sport" model for later.


I only hear distortion in my left earbud during the first 20 seconds of this track:






Zero distortion on the same track when using my Klipsch. 

Also, tried the same Scorpions track @BooleanBones suggested using the Klipsch and still hear the sound he referenced so I’m guessing it’s in the source in the situation.

But this is interesting, I just tried the same 20 seconds on the above track with my Gemini and I hear the distortion. Evidently whatever processing is inside the Klipsch buds is filtering out that distortion. I don’t know what’s going on with all these buds anymore!


----------



## BooleanBones

erockg said:


> I only hear distortion in my left earbud during the first 20 seconds of this track:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I hear ya. It's mesmerizing that you can hear oddities clearly on one track then the next 5 or 6 are crystal clear. I consistently get popping on the start of that Lisa Stansfield song, which my Sony's do not pick up. Think I will check the same on my Walkman later today to see if it does the same.


----------



## dj24

Bhelpoori said:


> New Jabras Incoming: Elite 7 and Elite 3... replacing the existing range.





LordToneeus said:


> Shut up.  Just shut up.  You had me at "Jabra."  You had me at "Jabra."





Tommy C said:


> Exciting. I always liked Jabra's products as they are very reliable and sound good in recent years.
> This also means the Elite 85t may go down in price....



Intrigued with the "MultiSensor Voice technology with a bone-conduction sensor, four microphones and intelligent algorithms to deliver new "*ground-breaking call quality*," description of the Pro's.  I live on Jabber VOIP work calls and Jabra has been losing ground to Sammy and Apple in this regard more recently so I really hope this is true.


----------



## Bhelpoori

https://www.theverge.com/2021/8/31/22649800/jabra-elite-7-pro-active-3-features-price

from the Verge…$199 for Elite Pro, $179 for Active and $79 for the 3. Also 9 hours on ANC and these replace the 65 and 75, with 85 still selling.

Aptx HD support


----------



## clerkpalmer

Bhelpoori said:


> https://www.theverge.com/2021/8/31/22649800/jabra-elite-7-pro-active-3-features-price
> 
> from the Verge…$199 for Elite Pro, $179 for Active and $79 for the 3. Also 9 hours on ANC and these replace the 65 and 75, with 85 still selling.
> 
> Aptx HD support


Why does Samsung not include aptxhd?  Maddening.


----------



## krenzler

How do the Devialets handle wind noise? - That's one area that I feel MTW2 don't handle very well at all.

Philips are borrowing Sony tech?

https://www.whathifi.com/news/phili...true-wireless-earbuds-to-flagship-audio-range


----------



## clerkpalmer

krenzler said:


> How do the Devialets handle wind noise? - That's one area that I feel MTW2 don't handle very well at all.
> 
> Philips are borrowing Sony tech?
> 
> https://www.whathifi.com/news/phili...true-wireless-earbuds-to-flagship-audio-range


Wow.  More wallet damage.


----------



## C_Lindbergh

Tommy C said:


> Exciting. I always liked Jabra's products as they are very reliable and sound good in recent years.
> This also means the Elite 85t may go down in price....



Jabra will be much more interesting this time around since the AAC codec will be implemented in the upcoming H2 Windows update, so they will be useable with your PC as well.


----------



## TK33 (Aug 31, 2021)

C_Lindbergh said:


> Jabra will be much more interesting this time around since the AAC codec will be implemented in the upcoming H2 Windows update, so they will be useable with your PC as well.


Wouldnt you just use aptX instead?  Some articles state that they will have aptX HD so hopefully they licensed aptX as well, which Windows already supports.

Edit: what I really hope they do is allow you to use each bud independently and swap between left and right side only seamlessly during a call (without disconnecting/reconnecting). Galaxy Buds Live do this really well regardless of whether I am using it for a phone call (V60 or Oneplus 8T) or Zoom on PC.  The fact that previous Jabra models could not do this was a the reason why I did not buy them.


----------



## C_Lindbergh

TK33 said:


> Wouldnt you just use aptX instead?  Some articles state that they will have aptX HD so hopefully they licensed aptX as well, which Windows already supports.



Oh, I assumed that they weren't gonna include anything besides AAC/SBC like all predecessors


----------



## TK33

C_Lindbergh said:


> Oh, I assumed that they weren't gonna include anything besides AAC/SBC like all predecessors


I did too until I saw the post by @Bhelpoori above.  Just when I was becoming more focused on my wired setup, here comes yet another TWS...

If better call quality, swappable sides during calls and aptX HD in a small package then my laptop may finally get its own TWS. Looking forward to some official specs and feedback from users here.


----------



## darveniza

stormwrx said:


> Well, my short experience with the B&O Beoplay EQs confirms most of what others have said. Sound quality is, at best, marginally better than my Devialet Geminis. The Geminis have vastly better ANC, are less bulky, and fit my ears better. Unfortunately, the left bud on the Beoplay EQ died after a few hours of usage, cannot be factory reset, and will not charge - in fact, the charging indicator on the case keeps fluctuating, as if there is a short or something. These are going back to B&O for a refund, as even if they did work correctly, the sound quality improvement over the Gemini is not enough to justify the extra $100. Also, the EQs have very little volume headroom on my iPhone - they need to be at 80-90% for me, as opposed to needing to run the Gemini at 50-60%.


When you refer  to less bulky?. I see B&O as the travel choice,  the Gemini case is just to big.
The app on B&O also is an upgrade.  
Just some additional thoughts, I am keeping  both as I feel signature are different


----------



## Tommy C

TK33 said:


> I did too until I saw the post by @Bhelpoori above.  Just when I was becoming more focused on my wired setup, here comes yet another TWS...
> 
> If better call quality, swappable sides during calls and aptX HD in a small package then my laptop may finally get its own TWS. Looking forward to some official specs and feedback from users here.


Same here, but since the MT is almost unusable for work calls I may need to get the Jabra or maybe I’m just trying to find reasons to try the new lineup by Jabra.


----------



## potix

krenzler said:


> How do the Devialets handle wind noise? - That's one area that I feel MTW2 don't handle very well at all.
> 
> Philips are borrowing Sony tech?
> 
> https://www.whathifi.com/news/phili...true-wireless-earbuds-to-flagship-audio-range


Maybe I prefer to take two vinyl records and wear them as earrings


----------



## cresny

krenzler said:


> How do the Devialets handle wind noise? - That's one area that I feel MTW2 don't handle very well at all.


Wind is handled well on ANC. To me it's on par with Sony XM3's wind reduction mode.


----------



## HaliHarry

Tommy C said:


> Tương tự ở đây, nhưng vì MT hầu như không sử dụng được cho các cuộc gọi công việc, tôi có thể cần phải có Jabra hoặc có thể tôi chỉ đang cố gắng tìm lý do để thử dòng sản phẩm mới của Jabra.


What do you think about vocal and soundstage of MT?  Is it thin and narrow ??


----------



## cresny

erockg said:


> I only hear distortion in my left earbud during the first 20 seconds of this track:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Were you talking about the Gemini? I heard zero distortion. But then maybe it's my tinnitus 🙂


----------



## Tommy C

HaliHarry said:


> What do you think about vocal and soundstage of MT?  Is it thin and narrow ??


On the default eq which is now called Immersive, I don't find the vocals to be thin at all, if anything they are nice and warmer than natural in my opinion.
Soundstage it about average. Not much left-right and up-down but has some depth. It's nice but nothing outstanding.


----------



## BooleanBones

cresny said:


> Were you talking about the Gemini? I heard zero distortion. But then maybe it's my tinnitus 🙂


Nah, we are running some test comparison on the B&O EQs.


----------



## BooleanBones

erockg said:


> I only hear distortion in my left earbud during the first 20 seconds of this track:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I hear some on that track too on the left side. Like a quick popping here and there.


----------



## alchemical

Received my EQs earlier today, still more listening to do but from early impressions they won’t be displacing the Geminis for me, good as they sound. I find the fit, volume, bass response and ANC superior on the Devialets, so I anticipate parting with the B&Os. The Geminis have just been such a huge surprise.


----------



## FYLegend

C_Lindbergh said:


> Jabra will be much more interesting this time around since the AAC codec will be implemented in the upcoming H2 Windows update, so they will be useable with your PC as well.


I found the 65t to sound almost as good on SBC through my PC as AAC on my phone. At bitpool 53 the highs be slightly splashy and rolled off and frequency sweeps have echoing artifacts (not noticeable with music), but it only makes a night and day difference if you have something with a low SBC bitpool like the Galaxy Buds series (which sound terribly distorted in the highs at bitpool 37).

They probably had some other reasons (connectivity/stability), but I find it a bit ridiculous that Jabra took this long to implement features built in to the chips. The 75t had the ability to support AptX and independent bud use, but Jabra decided not to implement either feature (they promised the latter but it got cancelled).

I'm a bit disappointed the Elite 3 does not have multipoint. I wouldn't mind paying a bit more for it.


----------



## Tommy C

So more thoughts on the CA MT since I have been using them for a couple of days now.

Had no connectivity issues once they are paired but not always they will pair automatically to my phone so I need to look into that to see why.
Ambient mode is OK but has hiccups. Once you are in ambient mode and the music has stopped I hear clipping which almost feels like it momentarily toggles between on/off - not a deal breaker but rather annoying as my Jabra from 2017 was doing it (which was later fixed with a FW update) so hoping CA can get this resolved. 
The fit is good, not great for my ears but good enough. The stock ear fins can get rather uncomfortable but I may need to get used to it.
Sounds is solid, to my ears it's not a game changer but rather good enough. There wasn't any wow moment when I put them on and played music for the first time but they are very good for most scenarios. Still playing around with the equalizer though as I find them to get boomy on certain tracks, mostly pop and electronic music.
Phone calls and this may be the deal breaker - I'm unable to carry a conversation. People keep ask me to repeat myself of talk louder when switching to all other TWS that I currently have, they say I sound crystal clear. Not sure if maybe my unit has a defective mic but will need to look into that.


----------



## erockg

darveniza said:


> When you refer  to less bulky?. I see B&O as the travel choice,  the Gemini case is just to big.
> The app on B&O also is an upgrade.
> Just some additional thoughts, I am keeping  both as I feel signature are different


I'm keeping both too.  I've had my Devialets for months and I just love the form factor of the B&Os despite a few pitfalls.  Unless those pitfalls get severe, I seem to be using my B&O EQs more than my Devialet Geminis


----------



## BooleanBones

erockg said:


> I'm keeping both too.  I've had my Devialets for months and I just love the form factor of the B&Os despite a few pitfalls.  Unless those pitfalls get severe, I seem to be using my B&O EQs more than my Devialet Geminis


I am going to ping B&O today and see what they have to say on what we have observed.


----------



## BooleanBones

BooleanBones said:


> I am going to ping B&O today and see what they have to say on what we have observed.


Got in touch with them and going to provide their research folks my observations and tracks (with timestamps) that I can easily identify and reproduce the issue in. If you want me to include something specific, send me a PM and I will include them in my correspondence. Also, trying to identify a problem with their application installing on my Android 9 Walkman, because it won't. Just a heads up if anyone is wanting to use a portable device.


----------



## bladefd

Tommy C said:


> So more thoughts on the CA MT since I have been using them for a couple of days now.
> 
> Had no connectivity issues once they are paired but not always they will pair automatically to my phone so I need to look into that to see why.
> Ambient mode is OK but has hiccups. Once you are in ambient mode and the music has stopped I hear clipping which almost feels like it momentarily toggles between on/off - not a deal breaker but rather annoying as my Jabra from 2017 was doing it (which was later fixed with a FW update) so hoping CA can get this resolved.
> ...


Try without the fins.

I get the clipping too in ambient mode. I don't use it so not a big deal for me.

I will post my eq later tonight that I find to sound the best imo.

I have been using them occasionally for phone calls and have not had any issues tbh. I keep the calling volume up and people can hear fine. I don't use zoom but regular phone calls btw - not sure if that matters.

Do you get the issue where the volume lowers automatically as soon as you play anything?? I got this RMA'd and the issue is still there. I'm wondering if it's my phone (Google pixel 3). It never happened with other tws though. It's unfortunate but I don't want to get it RMA'd again. Not a huge issue to raise the volume right away but just a bit annoying.

I am getting my epro tw00 delivered today so I can't wait to see how it is. I hope it is more comfortable and will post tonight how the sound is compared to the oem eartips.


----------



## Tommy C

bladefd said:


> Try without the fins.
> 
> I get the clipping too in ambient mode. I don't use it so not a big deal for me.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the tips!
looking forward to see your eq and will give it a try.
The call quality is on regular calls, not on Zoom.
Yes, for volume goes down by itself. 
I thought I was going crazy so luckily you mentioned that. On 3 different occasions and I took them out of the case and the moment the music started the volume decreased by itself. I cancelled the touch controls for now through the app to see if it makes any difference.


----------



## regancipher

Not sure if Tronsmart are as active here any more, but they're offering the Apollo Air at $39.59 on Amazon US for the next 4 days:

*Apollo Air earbuds*
Discount: 40% off
Code: *ZXN3A7PY*
List price: $65.99
Deal price: $39.59
End date: 9/5/2021
https://amzn.to/3yyiw6V


----------



## jant71 (Sep 1, 2021)

Hold on a second  ...




"Qualcomm is greatly improving the data rate over its existing aptX (352kbps) and aptX HD (576kbps) codecs. In fact, it can even exceed Sony LDAC’s 990kbps data rate. Although, sustaining this high bandwidth is the key problem and one that Qualcomm says it has addressed thanks to end-to-end control and optimization of its radio stack via its Snapdragon Sound ecosystem. As such, Qualcomm notes Snapdragon Sound is a requirement for sustainable aptX Lossless and that it intends for all branded products to support the new codec going forward. Sadly, the new hardware requirements mean existing products are unlikely to be backwards compatible."

A good news bad news sort of thing.


----------



## erockg

BooleanBones said:


> Got in touch with them and going to provide their research folks my observations and tracks (with timestamps) that I can easily identify and reproduce the issue in. If you want me to include something specific, send me a PM and I will include them in my correspondence. Also, trying to identify a problem with their application installing on my Android 9 Walkman, because it won't. Just a heads up if anyone is wanting to use a portable device.


That's so great, man.  Thanks for taking that on.  I'll give mine a listen for the day and see if I can pinpoint anything more definitive.


----------



## regancipher

Juturna said:


> Also, update on my time with the SoundPeats H1:
> 
> I switched tips to some Comply Truegrips, and it tamed the bass down from waaayyyy too much and super bloated to being a bit tighter, but it's still very bassy in a way that I think a lot of people would enjoy, but it's not precisely my type of bass. But it helped the tonality of the bass come forward a tiny bit, so I can hear the bass strings in many songs with bass guitar, with the silicone tips even regular bass guitar almost sounded like an 808 or just a deep electronic bass lmao.
> 
> ...


Interesting. I didn't find the bass to be especially impactful first time around - the lower frequencies I listed as fast, tight and punchy, but the mid-bass sounded slightly congested on more complex tracks. Just re-listened to them with the Tanchjim Bass and Treble Enhancement tips and the bass is much heavier than I remember with both, maybe I used the wrong tracks to test but you're right, they definitely need to be EQ'd slightly.


----------



## jsmiller58

jant71 said:


> Hold on a second  ...
> 
> "Qualcomm is greatly improving the data rate over its existing aptX (352kbps) and aptX HD (576kbps) codecs. In fact, it can even exceed Sony LDAC’s 990kbps data rate. Although, sustaining this high bandwidth is the key problem and one that Qualcomm says it has addressed thanks to end-to-end control and optimization of its radio stack via its Snapdragon Sound ecosystem. As such, Qualcomm notes Snapdragon Sound is a requirement for sustainable aptX Lossless and that it intends for all branded products to support the new codec going forward. Sadly, the new hardware requirements mean existing products are unlikely to be backwards compatible."
> 
> A good news bad news sort of thing.


Well, hard to expect that all breakthroughs are going to be backwards compatible, though it is a pleasant surprise when they are!


----------



## dj24

Samsung via eBay has *Samsung Galaxy Buds Live Wireless Headset* (Certified Refurbished) on sale for *$59.50* when you apply promo code *SAVE15LABORDAY* (_apply in cart_). *Shipping is free*. Both Mystic bronze and white are available. A 2 year Allstate comprehensive warranty is also included with a purchase.


----------



## jant71

jsmiller58 said:


> Well, hard to expect that all breakthroughs are going to be backwards compatible, though it is a pleasant surprise when they are!


To me the bad news is more the Snapdragon requirement for proper lossless function. Since it be 2022 till we really see products they should be LE devices and the old aptX' will the micro USB of 2022 anyhow. The new codecs will be like USB C and the SBC', aptX' will be going the way of the dinosaur and disappear from the new earphones after a while.


----------



## TK33

dj24 said:


> Samsung via eBay has *Samsung Galaxy Buds Live Wireless Headset* (Certified Refurbished) on sale for *$59.50* when you apply promo code *SAVE15LABORDAY* (_apply in cart_). *Shipping is free*. Both Mystic bronze and white are available. A 2 year Allstate comprehensive warranty is also included with a purchase.


Thanks for the tip. Ordered a black one (a few were also available) since I already have the white.  Use these everyday for calls.


----------



## stormwrx

darveniza said:


> When you refer  to less bulky?. I see B&O as the travel choice,  the Gemini case is just to big.
> The app on B&O also is an upgrade.
> Just some additional thoughts, I am keeping  both as I feel signature are different


I agree with you that the B&O app and smaller, more premium case are better than that of the Geminis. I just found the actual earbuds to be less bulky in the case of the Geminis.


----------



## Mouseman (Sep 1, 2021)

krenzler said:


> How do the Devialets handle wind noise? - That's one area that I feel MTW2 don't handle very well at all.
> 
> Philips are borrowing Sony tech?
> 
> https://www.whathifi.com/news/phili...true-wireless-earbuds-to-flagship-audio-range


Wow - that looks a lot like a Soundcore L2P with upgraded features. That could be a real winner!

Wait...no hearthrough/ambient? That seems like a big oversight.


----------



## Tommy C

Mouseman said:


> Wow - that looks a lot like a Soundcore L2P with upgraded features. That could be a real winner!
> 
> Wait...no hearthrough/ambient? That seems like a big oversight.



Funny you mentioned this as I just learned today that there is a new version to the L2P with ambient and different chipset it seems.
https://us.soundcore.com/collections/true-wireless/products/a3930011


----------



## tgdc

Are there any vendors making CIEM tips for popular TWS IEMs?  I’d think the ideal setup would be to have a professional impression made and digitized and then a vendor that kept it on file and could make tips to clamp on whatever TWS buds come along.  They’d have to careful not to block any mics and I supposed fitting in the charging case could be annoying unless they were designed to detach.  Is there anything like this on the market?


----------



## bladefd

Tommy C said:


> Thanks for the tips!
> looking forward to see your eq and will give it a try.
> The call quality is on regular calls, not on Zoom.
> Yes, for volume goes down by itself.
> I thought I was going crazy so luckily you mentioned that. On 3 different occasions and I took them out of the case and the moment the music started the volume decreased by itself. I cancelled the touch controls for now through the app to see if it makes any difference.







After the July firmware update, I brought down the treble/mids peaks a bit. CA altered the signature quite a bit between January and July for the better.

I have the ePro large now so I expect to change the equalizer over the next few days. Not sure yet.

I'm not too happy about the volume issue, but I must live with it. I'm waiting until next summer to upgrade -- hopefully to something from the next generation. This is good enough until then, especially for $150. Upgrade that would be somewhat significant would be the Gemini, but that is more than double the price for the same generation. I would rather wait for something more compelling from the next generation.


----------



## Mouseman

Tommy C said:


> Funny you mentioned this as I just learned today that there is a new version to the L2P with ambient and different chipset it seems.
> https://us.soundcore.com/collections/true-wireless/products/a3930011


Thanks!  Wow - with LDAC. I usually get their emails, wonder why I haven't seen that yet.


----------



## CocaCola15 (Sep 1, 2021)

dj24 said:


> Samsung via eBay has *Samsung Galaxy Buds Live Wireless Headset* (Certified Refurbished) on sale for *$59.50* when you apply promo code *SAVE15LABORDAY* (_apply in cart_). *Shipping is free*. Both Mystic bronze and white are available. A 2 year Allstate comprehensive warranty is also included with a purchase.


Thanks. Got black Galaxy Buds + (not the Live) for $63 shipped. Do I need them? Of course not. Have the Status Between Pro, CA melomania 1+ and UE Fit arriving soon. But with discounts and Indiegogo wound up paying about $450 for all 4 pair. Not to shabby. Variety is good!


----------



## Tommy C (Sep 2, 2021)

bladefd said:


> After the July firmware update, I brought down the treble/mids peaks a bit. CA altered the signature quite a bit between January and July for the better.
> 
> I have the ePro large now so I expect to change the equalizer over the next few days. Not sure yet.
> 
> I'm not too happy about the volume issue, but I must live with it. I'm waiting until next summer to upgrade -- hopefully to something from the next generation. This is good enough until then, especially for $150. Upgrade that would be somewhat significant would be the Gemini, but that is more than double the price for the same generation. I would rather wait for something more compelling from the next generation.


Thanks man, I appreciate that.
I sure hope they fix those hiccups.
Maybe I'm expecting a bit too much from the MT but was hoping the sound quality will amaze me and while the sound is good, I have 5 pairs of TWS in front of me and I'm not reaching out to the MT for whatever reasons.


----------



## Devodonaldson (Sep 2, 2021)

dasadab said:


> Just a quick comment about the Devialet.  I have owned the B&W I7, and the Sony XM3s and 4.  I had been using the AirPod pros for calls and audiobooks due to the superior ANC and solid user experience.  Now, the Devialets have replaced the Airpods as my always carry IEMs.  IMHO, the sound is comparable to the i7s, significantly better to me than the Sonys, and the phone calls and connectivity are very very good.  I am not a bass head, but the depth and timber of the bass of the Devialets is very impressive.  The Sonys were technically excellent, but the fit and sound quality tipped the balance against keeping them.  I just had too many connectivity/dropping issues with the i7s.


Hear a lot about Gemini and i7. It's so hard. I have galaxy buds pro (ok) good for movies/gaming on Samsung. Noble Falcon Pro (technically very good), and Xm4 (very musical). For me and my hearing I put on the Falcon Pro,  and always end up switching back to the Sony because they are so much smoother and more to my liking. Don't want to spend another $400 on a tws, but I'm curious about it and Gemini, but I already have a $200 (buds pro) and a $320 (Falcon pro) that I don't use regularly


----------



## potix (Sep 2, 2021)

I'm curious too, same thoughts, I returned Pi7 because xm4 were smoother and more complete. Though I'm not going to try anything else unless it's less bulky, have hires codecs and bigger drivers, full touch controls and an easy to access pause/ambient-mode function.


----------



## Devodonaldson

potix said:


> I'm curious too, same thoughts, I returned Pi7 because xm4 were smoother and more complete. Though I'm not going to try anything else unless it's less bulky, have hires codecs and bigger drivers, full touch controls and an easy to access pause/ambient-mode function.


Ok....So you actually prefer the smooth sound of the Sony? See, a lot of people keep saying Sony lacks detail, but I disagree. It's a smooth more rolled off upper register, but it's still there. Reminds me of their house sound. I had zx507 DAP. Smooth overall sound which I liked, but wanted something more powerful.  Anyway, xm4 is just soothing to my ears. I'm now using xelastec tips, and I just nestle in at work, or on the street, and enjoy many different genres.


----------



## webvan (Sep 2, 2021)

So I was finally able to do a hard running session with the Galaxy Buds Live and it was a...bust ! Not only do they start moving around too much when the sweat builds up but where they really "fall apart" is that when you readjust them there's a 99% chance to trigger a "tap" so the music stops. The Sabbat X12s move a bit too when used without the foams but at least they can be readjusted without stopping the music. So they're going back.

On the other hand I finally got an Aftershokz "bone-conduction" headset (mostly because I'm doing more riding now), the "cheap" OpenMove and while the SQ is obviously not their focus (not as bad as I thought it would be though) they serve their purpose and are even better at not blocking outside noise as "earbud" designs, no surprise there.

I'm intrigued by the upgraded L2Ps, I still use mine a lot for "critical" listening. I wonder if they finally managed to get rid of the hiss that remained even on the latest (v3 ?)  "first" version.


----------



## chinmie

webvan said:


> when you readjust them there's a 99% chance to trigger a "tap" so the music stops.



it's so much a problem to me too that i ended up turning the touch control off entirely.


----------



## webvan

Yes I suppose that would be an option but not terribly convenient and still the problem of slipping with the sweat. I'll go back to the X12 and remove the foam sleeves for charging (or go looking for the rubber ones as they're probably stronger for on/off action).


----------



## Devodonaldson

webvan said:


> So I was finally able to do a hard running session with the Galaxy Buds Live and it was a...bust ! Not only do they start moving around too much when the sweat builds up but where they really "fall apart" is that when you readjust them there's a 99% chance to trigger a "tap" so the music stops. The Sabbat X12s move a bit too when used without the foams but at least they can be readjusted without stopping the music. So they're going back.
> 
> On the other hand I finally got an Aftershokz "bone-conduction" headset (mostly because I'm doing more riding now), the "cheap" OpenMove and while the SQ is obviously not their focus (not as bad as I thought it would be though) they serve their purpose and are even better at not blocking outside noise as "earbud" designs, no surprise there.
> 
> I'm intrigued by the upgraded L2Ps, I still use mine a lot for "critical" listening. I wonder if they finally managed to get rid of the hiss that remained even on the latest (v3 ?)  "first" version.


Sorry to hear. We all have different shaped ears, as the live font move at all in mine, in just a bit of an audio sbob and wanted better sq, lol. Running with Noble Falcon Pro, but gonna try my Sony xm4 now that I have xelastec ear tips


----------



## Devodonaldson

webvan said:


> Yes I suppose that would be an option but not terribly convenient and still the problem of slipping with the sweat. I'll go back to the X12 and remove the foam sleeves for charging (or go looking for the rubber ones as they're probably stronger for on/off action).


Also, Samsung sends the latex sleeves for the live if you contwxt them. But not everyone likes them enough to go through the extra step


----------



## Juturna (Sep 2, 2021)

regancipher said:


> Interesting. I didn't find the bass to be especially impactful first time around - the lower frequencies I listed as fast, tight and punchy, but the mid-bass sounded slightly congested on more complex tracks. Just re-listened to them with the Tanchjim Bass and Treble Enhancement tips and the bass is much heavier than I remember with both, maybe I used the wrong tracks to test but you're right, they definitely need to be EQ'd slightly.


It definitely depends on what you're listening to. If you're listening to something that's more acoustic or low-key it's just going to show itself a bit of extra warmth, but if you listen to something that has a bunch of bass it's going to really bludgeon you with that bass.

I also feel like it's very depending on fit and tips, too. With the included tips they sounded so bass-y that I was originally wondering how I was even going to listen to them, but with the Comply TrueGrips the bass tightens up a bit even though it's definitely a bit too rumbly and is lacking a bit in timing and speed. If I wasn't on iOS i would definitely EQ these but they work with the stock tuning for me too even if the bass can detract a bit from the overall sound.
Also yeah, I feel like these are very sensitive to fit as well. If I don't roll the foam tips properly before I put them in it's going to have bass overload, if I push them too far in... also too much bass. If I hit that one point in between it's definitely a lot better.

I've gotten very used to the sound and I've started listening to these way more than the XM4's now because these just sound... honestly just a lot clearer to me. They're not better in all aspects but the Sony's just don't sound good to me. There's nothing I inherently dislike about the Sony's and they're obviously better from a usability and utility perspective, i'm just not wowed by anything in the sound and it really falls apart if you push the volume up over 70-ish percent. (trying to sell them but i'm not getting any bites at all on my ad) Plus these fit my ears a lot better and are more comfortable.


----------



## Juturna (Sep 2, 2021)

Devodonaldson said:


> Ok....So you actually prefer the smooth sound of the Sony? See, a lot of people keep saying Sony lacks detail, but I disagree. It's a smooth more rolled off upper register, but it's still there. Reminds me of their house sound. I had zx507 DAP. Smooth overall sound which I liked, but wanted something more powerful.  Anyway, xm4 is just soothing to my ears. I'm now using xelastec tips, and I just nestle in at work, or on the street, and enjoy many different genres.


Now, I'm not OP but I feel like there's something about the Sony's and the fit that really is a make or break thing.
I feel like they actually fit my ears quite well if we're talking the feeling in the ears, but they don't sit flush in my ears even though I feel like the eartips are firmly in place in my ears, I just can't get them to sound anywhere near what I enjoy the most.

I think it boils down to a couple of things overall why they're a bit polarizing:

1) The fit, like I mentioned earlier, combined with having to find the perfect tips to get the most of them.

2) People who listen to their music with no regard for ear health and volume restrictions - Because they sound really bad to me over 70%, the last 30% of volume honestly don't sound louder to me, it's like every click of the volume up button just makes it sound more and more bloated and congested in the mids and seemingly making the treble even more rolled off. So if somebody immediately blasts up the music to 70% will probably just think they're pretty bad.
Not basing that on anything other than my experience, but I know that the SQ changes A LOT after 70%-ish and I prefer being around 70-80% if i'm not in a super quiet environment. (don't need to know that I should lower the volume lol).

3) People who haven't even heard them but just seen a frequency graph and thinking that they're "trash" because they do have some treble roll-off with EQ off.

I see a lot of people saying that they're just so good because they make you really "feel" your music. I'm not one who just wants an analytical sound at all, but the XM4's actually leave me completely cold because it's just not delivering enough clarity/details or punch to really move me, nothing sticks out but they're smooth and easy-listened, sure.

They're very easy to use in the long run and supreme as a TWS for everything but the sound imho, but once again that's just my opinion.
Also i'm on AAC so that might also be why i'm not feeling like I enjoy them, but it shouldn't make that much of a difference either even if it's noticeable.
I used to love the wired Sony earbuds I bought when I was younger but maybe I just don't enjoy their "house sound" anymore? I don't know.


----------



## tiagopinto

jant71 said:


> Hold on a second  ...
> 
> "Qualcomm is greatly improving the data rate over its existing aptX (352kbps) and aptX HD (576kbps) codecs. In fact, it can even exceed Sony LDAC’s 990kbps data rate. Although, sustaining this high bandwidth is the key problem and one that Qualcomm says it has addressed thanks to end-to-end control and optimization of its radio stack via its Snapdragon Sound ecosystem. As such, Qualcomm notes Snapdragon Sound is a requirement for sustainable aptX Lossless and that it intends for all branded products to support the new codec going forward. Sadly, the new hardware requirements mean existing products are unlikely to be backwards compatible."
> 
> A good news bad news sort of thing.



I bought into this “halfway there” tech concept when Minidisc was a thing with Atrac compression (as this is similar sounding). I quit with the move to MDLP. 

This, again, sounds to me like halfway through to BTLEAudio/LC3 (or whatever will allow us to listen to 44.1, or more, on buds, wirelessly). 

Sorry for being kind of a skeptic but I’m not buying it. With my current mindset I’m not willing to fund more “halfway there” developments. 

Maybe I’m just worried with allocating the available funds somewhere else. I’m also happy with my current wired and wireless options.


----------



## webvan

Devodonaldson said:


> Also, Samsung sends the latex sleeves for the live if you contwxt them. But not everyone likes them enough to go through the extra step


Wasn't aware there were sleeves, can they stay on for charging ?


----------



## TK33

webvan said:


> Wasn't aware there were sleeves, can they stay on for charging ?


I would think so but haven't tried or needed them myself.  I use them for calls and biking and they've been great for me without sleeves so I never requested them.  See below for some more info on the sleeves:

https://www.samsung.com/us/support/answer/ANS00087422/


----------



## BigZ12

A little sunshine story from my Airpods Pro 

Started to get yellow fit test again, bass totally gone with ANC set to off, on my 3rd set of APP. (manufactured 01/21)
Also the right mic were very bad compared to the left. People I talked to complained, and I also noticed it when using the transparency mode.

Read some tips and tricks on the internet, bought a package of UHU Patafix, and started to clean all meshes. 
Wow! Fit test is green again, bass is back and the right mic is just as good as the left (confirmed with the voice memo app)

Thanks again, UHU Patafix!


----------



## Devodonaldson

webvan said:


> Wasn't aware there were sleeves, can they stay on for charging ?


You can absolutely keep sleeves on. They ha w cutouts made for them to stay on. Apparently there are also 3rd party ones on Amazon as well.


----------



## webvan

TK33 said:


> I would think so but haven't tried or needed them myself.  I use them for calls and biking and they've been great for me without sleeves so I never requested them.  See below for some more info on the sleeves:
> 
> https://www.samsung.com/us/support/answer/ANS00087422/


Thanks, I've sent a message to support and will update if/when I hear back from them.


----------



## Bobbetybob

webvan said:


> Yes I suppose that would be an option but not terribly convenient and still the problem of slipping with the sweat. I'll go back to the X12 and remove the foam sleeves for charging (or go looking for the rubber ones as they're probably stronger for on/off action).


Might be worth looking at the Pixel Buds A series too, I got my pair today and I haven't been for a run but from walking (and jogging up the stairs as a quick test) around the house there seems to be no thud at all because they've got a "spatial vent" in them. They're also in ears with a fin so should be a lot more stable, they seem to let a reaosnable amount of outside noise in too. 

Sound wise they seem pretty decent, quite a balanced sound with rolled off bass which is always a surprise in a consumer facing earbud, so maybe not the best for high energy running music, although there is a bass boost option which seems to work well, I'd probably turn this on if I was listening to anything bass heavy but I mostly listen to rock/metal and they sound nice with it off. I paid £80 for them so they're in a bit of a weird middle ground where they're not quite budget but they're not massively expensive either.

Rtings review with some graphs: https://www.rtings.com/headphones/reviews/google/pixel-buds-a-series-truly-wireless


----------



## senorbroom

I was going to buy the Samsung Buds 2 as I wanted a small pair of earphones but the new Jabras look really promising AND come with multipoint. Hopefully they’ll have a more refined sound than the basic model. 

The basic model is getting decent reviews:
https://au.pcmag.com/headphones/89174/jabra-elite-3
https://www.finder.com.au/jabra-elite-3-review


----------



## northernsound

I've noticed some scepticism, but still, hopefully it will be a big improvement regarding the sound quality on many coming wireless headphones:

https://www.qualcomm.com/news/relea...th-lossless-audio-technology-snapdragon-sound

https://www.qualcomm.com/products/features/snapdragon-sound

Then again, I've seen several blindtests on very high end speakers and with experienced "audiophiles" trying to determine if they are listening to higher or lower bitrate-versions of the same songs, the results have not been very good in the tests I've seen. All were beforehand convinced they would hear a clear difference and be able to decide which is which with ease. Not so much after. The quality of the recording is way more important than bitrate, in my opinion and with my ears. Still, I'll get Spotify HiFi the day it comes out, and probably a pair of wireless headphones with Qualcomm "lossless".


----------



## potix (Sep 2, 2021)

Devodonaldson said:


> Ok....So you actually prefer the smooth sound of the Sony? See, a lot of people keep saying Sony lacks detail, but I disagree. It's a smooth more rolled off upper register, but it's still there. Reminds me of their house sound. I had zx507 DAP. Smooth overall sound which I liked, but wanted something more powerful.  Anyway, xm4 is just soothing to my ears. I'm now using xelastec tips, and I just nestle in at work, or on the street, and enjoy many different genres.


Honestly XM4 are a bit lacking in the treble department, but not as much as many people complain about, probably because of the tuning. I'm using xelastec too, they make the highs somehow a smidge more refined and clear. Adding also some eq with wavelet, not much, in a 4.5db range.
In my opinion it's crucial to have enough space in the concha in order to find the best insertion and rotation, in my case a shallower fit gives the best results.
I'm using LDAC and no ANC (if I am in a not noisy enviroment).


----------



## Caipirina

webvan said:


> So I was finally able to do a hard running session with the Galaxy Buds Live and it was a...bust ! Not only do they start moving around too much when the sweat builds up but where they really "fall apart" is that when you readjust them there's a 99% chance to trigger a "tap" so the music stops. The Sabbat X12s move a bit too when used without the foams but at least they can be readjusted without stopping the music. So they're going back.
> 
> On the other hand I finally got an Aftershokz "bone-conduction" headset (mostly because I'm doing more riding now), the "cheap" OpenMove and while the SQ is obviously not their focus (not as bad as I thought it would be though) they serve their purpose and are even better at not blocking outside noise as "earbud" designs, no surprise there.
> 
> I'm intrigued by the upgraded L2Ps, I still use mine a lot for "critical" listening. I wonder if they finally managed to get rid of the hiss that remained even on the latest (v3 ?)  "first" version.


And this is why I loved the Live’s feature of turning off the buttons in the app. I think those were the first I had that offered that. I could readjust all I wanted, until my sweat killed one …


----------



## bladefd (Sep 2, 2021)

Tommy C said:


> Thanks man, I appreciate that.
> I sure hope they fix those hiccups.
> Maybe I'm expecting a bit too much from the MT but was hoping the sound quality will amaze me and while the sound is good, I have 5 pairs of TWS in front of me and I'm not reaching out to the MT for whatever reasons.


You can always return them if you don't use them. Wait until low energy Bluetooth hopefully next year.

I tried the epro tips. They sound almost the same as MT oem, but they have much better grip and don't slip out. Makes the earwings unnecessary imo. I was already using the MT without the wings but they used to slip out sometimes. No more slippage! I do think that bass has tempered down a bit so eq a tiny bit. There is definitely better isolation.


----------



## regancipher (Sep 2, 2021)

Finally got round to reviewing the Huawei Freebuds Pro
Also reviewed the Tronsmart Battle


----------



## Tommy C

Mouseman said:


> Thanks!  Wow - with LDAC. I usually get their emails, wonder why I haven't seen that yet.


I'm tempted to order but I know I'll hate the form factor.
I wish they would have refreshed the looks as well a little as it screams to me 2018


----------



## Tommy C

@miserybeforethemusic


bladefd said:


> You can always return them if you don't use them. Wait until low energy Bluetooth hopefully next year.
> 
> I tried the epro tips. They sound almost the same as MT oem, but they have much better grip and don't slip out. Makes the earwings unnecessary imo. I was already using the MT without the wings but they used to slip out sometimes. No more slippage! I do think that bass has tempered down a bit so eq a tiny bit. There is definitely better isolation.



I may need to go that route. 
Unfortunately another gremlin showed up today. 
I took them out of the case and they won't pair automatically, second time they paired but got disconnected after a few seconds, third time they paired but 10 mins in transparency mode got turned off by itself.


----------



## darveniza

Devodonaldson said:


> You can absolutely keep sleeves on. They ha w cutouts made for them to stay on. Apparently there are also 3rd party ones on Amazon as well.


Great tip. Will order these and test my Galaxy Buds Live


----------



## SeeD

Good day- 

Any updates on when the Fiio UTWS 5 will be released?  

Also will it have app support?  

Thank you!


----------



## Caipirina

Tommy C said:


> I wish they would have refreshed the looks as well a little as it screams to me 2018


it's called 'retro'


----------



## DRuM (Sep 3, 2021)

My Creative Air Outlier v3 has been dispatched and the tracking suggests I might get it tomorrow. 
It was meant to be end of September beginning October.

Weird, I can't find a single youtube review on them, and the reviewers normally get sent buds in advance.


----------



## Tommy C

DRuM said:


> My Creative Air Outlier v3 has been dispatched and the tracking suggests I might get it tomorrow.
> It was meant to be end of September beginning October.
> 
> Weird, I can't find a single youtube review on them, and the reviewers normally get sent buds in advance.


I was looking for info as well and nothing can be found. Curious to know your impression when you get them.


----------



## nekonhime

Should I buy the sony wf1000xm4 brand new for 180$ or there are better options for the same price? I priorities are anc and music rather than phone calls.


----------



## Tommy C

Caipirina said:


> it's called 'retro'



Darn it... just ordered. Amazon Canada had them with $30 coupon.


----------



## Tommy C

nekonhime said:


> Should I buy the sony wf1000xm4 brand new for 180$ or there are better options for the same price? I priorities are anc and music rather than phone calls.


$180 is a very good deal.
Sound, especially with IEMs and TWS is super subjective so if you like the sound signature I would say it's a good choice.


----------



## BooleanBones

Tommy C said:


> $180 is a very good deal.
> Sound, especially with IEMs and TWS is super subjective so if you like the sound signature I would say it's a good choice.


To add to this, I would say that if you are not happy using the tips Sony provides in the package, that you should explore others before giving up on them. I was not overly pleased with the sound and comfort until I moved on from their hybrid foam tips. Very happy with my purchase now and they will remain in the stable


----------



## nekonhime

BooleanBones said:


> To add to this, I would say that if you are not happy using the tips Sony provides in the package, that you should explore others before giving up on them. I was not overly pleased with the sound and comfort until I moved on from their hybrid foam tips. Very happy with my purchase now and they will remain in the stable


Do you mind if I ask for the best eq and which ear tips I should use?


----------



## nekonhime

Tommy C said:


> $180 is a very good deal.
> Sound, especially with IEMs and TWS is super subjective so if you like the sound signature I would say it's a good choice.


I saw someone said it sound like HD650s so I want to try it myself


----------



## Tommy C

nekonhime said:


> I saw someone said it sound like HD650s so I want to try it myself


I haven't had a chance to try either but for this price it's worth a shot and you can always sell them if you don't like the sound and the ANC, which should be one of the best in the business.


----------



## BooleanBones

nekonhime said:


> Do you mind if I ask for the best eq and which ear tips I should use?


I can tell you what I prefer, which is the "Excited" setting in the app, but I think the EQ setting would be something you tweak to your preference and genres you like. I also run mine with the Final TWS tips, but others here you different types. You might read back a bit in this thread and check some of the posts others have made on tips/settings which may also give you some good ideas.


----------



## Tommy C

bladefd said:


> After the July firmware update, I brought down the treble/mids peaks a bit. CA altered the signature quite a bit between January and July for the better.
> 
> I have the ePro large now so I expect to change the equalizer over the next few days. Not sure yet.
> 
> I'm not too happy about the volume issue, but I must live with it. I'm waiting until next summer to upgrade -- hopefully to something from the next generation. This is good enough until then, especially for $150. Upgrade that would be somewhat significant would be the Gemini, but that is more than double the price for the same generation. I would rather wait for something more compelling from the next generation.



Tried your EQ setup. It definitely improved the sound more to my liking. 
I guess the thing I'm missing the most with the CA MT is more resolution and some more sparkle.  
It has some sparkle which isn't bad and I'm personally pretty sensitive to bright highs. 
Overall they are not bad at all, would have been very good without the software hiccups and still worth their asking price. 

I have the Soundcore Liberty Pro 2+ (newest version) coming in next week and will compare the two.


----------



## potix

nekonhime said:


> Should I buy the sony wf1000xm4 brand new for 180$ or there are better options for the same price? I priorities are anc and music rather than phone calls.


I think there is no better option for that price. Fiddling with insertion, eq and tips rolling they have a very good sound. Try spinfit 360, jvc spiral dots, final e, azla light short/crystal/xelastec. Best result for me is with xelastec and shallower insertion. If your ears are small I would look elsewhere.


----------



## LordToneeus

Just finished a very short experiment with MW08 Sports. They’re beautiful and I loved the sound, but I’ll be damned if I could get the bastards to stay in my ears. Shake test? These couldn’t pass the walk test. I need fins!

After trying these, my Jabra Elite Active 75ts felt like trusty old friends. Thankfully, the MW08s didn’t sound $250 better than the Jabras, IMHO. Back they go!


----------



## Tommy C

LordToneeus said:


> Just finished a very short experiment with MW08 Sports. They’re beautiful and I loved the sound, but I’ll be damned if I could get the bastards to stay in my ears. Shake test? These couldn’t pass the walk test. I need fins!
> 
> After trying these, my Jabra Elite Active 75ts felt like trusty old friends. Thankfully, the MW08s didn’t sound $250 better than the Jabras, IMHO. Back they go!


For me the Jabra has a very good fit once you get used to them and find the right tips. I’m still using my Jabra Elite Sport and they always feel super secure and comfy even without the fins. I’m excited for the new Jabra lineup and will give them a try at some point as I always enjoyed their sound and reliability.


----------



## Tenlow

LordToneeus said:


> Just finished a very short experiment with MW08 Sports. They’re beautiful and I loved the sound, but I’ll be damned if I could get the bastards to stay in my ears. Shake test? These couldn’t pass the walk test. I need fins!
> 
> After trying these, my Jabra Elite Active 75ts felt like trusty old friends. Thankfully, the MW08s didn’t sound $250 better than the Jabras, IMHO. Back they go!


Pity that we all have different ears and different ear shapes. The MW08S fit absolutely securely in my ears and don't move a single bit no matter what I do. I can headbang as much as I want and there is no movement whatsoever. Love these buds.


----------



## Tommy C

I’m really enjoying the Fiil CC2. They are really kind of a unique product and won’t work for everyone. The design is unique. Not my favourite but not bad overall. The buds are shaped like the AirPods buds and the tuning out of the box wasn’t to my liking and it was very mid centric. They have really good mids and highs though. Bass is punchy but no rumble.  Think of a single armature driver type of bass. Soundstage is rather spacious.  Luckily there is an app with eq which is good with some additional features. Very unusual in that price range. All in all, if you’re looking for an open design earbuds this is a very interesting product. Battery life is excellent but the case is open so keep that in mind.
I got it as a gift but ended up keeping it lol. Not sure I would pay retail price but Amazon had them on sale and combined with a coupon and was around $40 which is a really excellent value and I use them constantly for phone calls and days when you want something different and let your ears rest.


----------



## snowy8171

what do you guys recc for a true wireless set with the best sound quality? i dont know the diff brands that are out there.


----------



## TooFrank

erockg said:


> EQ sound way better than the E8 3rd gen.  Different animal.  Different drivers.  I prefer the EQ.  Better soundstage and clarity IMO.  More mics for calls and ANC.  BT 5.2.  Smaller beautiful case.  You can see all the specs on B&Os site.


Thanks for your assessment Was wondering because John B&O Manchester implied that the SQ was almost similar. You can hear this late (around 12min) in this review. .


----------



## raulromanjr

Over the last 2 months I have transition
from this:

Using music I personally own and have carefully curated from the best sources.  Most 24bit, 88kHz+
Playing music on an AK SA700 to wired, balanced Pioneer HDJ-X10C headphones.

to this:

Playing high resolution, borrowed music from Amazon Music on my Samsung Galaxy and wirelessly sending it via LDAC to a new set of Sony WF-1000XM4s

Really have zero regrets and I'm spending more time enjoying the music.


----------



## DRuM (Sep 4, 2021)

Got my Creative Outlier Air v3 this morning. 















They sound great. To be honest, I'm not sure if they sound different to the v2. Certainly not better in my opinion.  The bass is super fat and punchy much like the v2 so I'm pleased about that. So, going from graphene drivers to bio cellulose doesn't seem to change anything apart from possibly the treble. I wish I still had the v2 to compare against.

The highs are quite rolled off, absolutely no sibilance.  I can't remember how the highs were on the v2 but it's possible the v2 were slightly brighter. These remind me of my Sennheiser 580 HD, very warm and smooth. Detail retrieval, bass, mids and stereo imaging is excellent. Soundstage is good though not particularly wide but more intimate.

Pairing is better and quicker than the v2. I tested the ambient mode and active noise reduction by tapping twice on the left bud to change modes. Active noise reduction, meh, I can't hear any difference. Ambient mode does seem to work but only ever so slightly. You hear a slight hiss when it's activated and the voice on the radio in the background was ever so slightly clearer but honestly, these modes are probably more marketing than actually useful.  I haven't downloaded the apps yet or tried the 'super X-Fi'. So yeah, I'm pretty happy with them.  I'll be interested when reviews come out or other members here get a pair to see what they think, especially if they've had the v2 as well.


----------



## scubaphish

Tommy C said:


> Agreed, after listening to them for a few hours they do sound good, and with that being said the Fiil T1XS definitely give them a run for the their money at around 1/4 of the price.
> Without using the eq on both, the Fiil T1Xs sound signature is less colored but it's early to say as I'm still A/B'ing them here and there.
> 
> This is not to say the CA MT aren't worth it, they do, but the Fiil is just a steal and they punch way above their weight and have no business competing with the MT on price bracket alone but they sure do and it may come down to someone's sound preference.


Finally got my Fiil T1XS and I am sincerely impressed with the sound. They are really, really nice.


----------



## Tommy C

scubaphish said:


> Finally got my Fiil T1XS and I am sincerely impressed with the sound. They are really, really nice.



Awesome! Glad to hear that!
When you go the app there is a Burn In option. I ran mine for around 700 minutes and I think they sound a bit more open and coherent now. Also noticed more driver flex on both buds when inserting them.  No biggies but it’s there for me.
All in all I find the sound very good even while ignoring the ridiculous price tag. They simply sound great, in low volumes too and they work flawlessly with the app and touch control.
Enjoy!


----------



## regancipher

I agree those few releases were excellent from FIIL. They definitely went backwards with the CC Pro, really feels like they just tried too hard to replicate the Huawei FreeBuds Pro


----------



## Juturna (Sep 5, 2021)

Got screwed over while selling my XM4's yesterday, I go into town to meet him and he gets there, tries the earbuds to make sure that they work and says "OOOHhmmmmhmm i'm not so sure about the fit honestly, and they're quite pricy so I think I'll have to say no" and he started to get ready to leave despite actually giving me a solid bid online and forcing me to take the commuter train into town to meet with him.

So I had to lower the price by $30 to win him over, and it might have been his way to haggle but it honestly didn't feel like it. I just had no energy to deal with other potential buyers so I kinda just caved.
Anyway, I'm not some goddamn headphone shop where you can sample headphones before you buy them goshdarnit, I just don't think that's okay. You don't meet up with somebody to try the product and decide that it's not what you want unless it's literally a) a faulty product b) not the product advertised c) not in the condition stated in the ad, at least in my opinion.

I told him that it wasn't fair to dick around and forcing me to come into town and he was like "well i thought you had other things to do here anyway so uhh" and I said that "well I didn't, come on, you just don't back down from a deal if the product lives up to what is stated in the ad and you haven't only made a bid, you met up with the seller" and he was like "Well I disagree ackshuaallyyyy". What a douchenozzle, lucky for him that I have zero patience and is easy to run over DD


----------



## chinmie

Juturna said:


> Got screwed over while selling my XM4's yesterday, I go into town to meet him and he gets there, tries the earbuds to make sure that they work and says "OOOHhmmmmhmm i'm not so sure about the fit honestly, and they're quite pricy so I think I'll have to say no" and he started to get ready to leave despite actually giving me a solid bid online and forcing me to take the commuter train into town to meet with him.
> 
> So I had to lower the price by $30 to win him over, and it might have been his way to haggle but it honestly didn't feel like it. I just had no energy to deal with other potential buyers so I kinda just caved.
> Anyway, I'm not some goddamn headphone shop where you can sample headphones before you buy them goshdarnit, I just don't think that's okay. You don't meet up with somebody to try the product and decide that it's not what you want unless it's literally a) a faulty product b) not the product advertised c) not in the condition stated in the ad, at least in my opinion.
> ...



a had similar experience years ago, talked on the phone with the buyer and already agreed on a price, but when i met him, he haggled for some more to reduce the price. 
nowadays i don't ever want to meet up a buyer unless the meeting place is a walking distance from where i am. 
don't worry mate, i know the feeling, but that positive gesture of yours (even though it's not fun to do) will certainly make it back to you in other form from other places


----------



## DRuM

Further to my previous post on the Creative Outlier Air v3 where I said ambient mode and ANR seemed rather ineffective, I just realised that the Creative app allows you to increase the levels of both of those modes. I'll report back after I've installed the app and tested how much difference it might make.


----------



## Luke Skywalker

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Just hopped on to say goodbye. Maybe for a while, maybe permanently. Veterans on this forum need to change their tune.
> 
> I will not be attending CanJam and I will not be providing this site with any more content. I wish you all the best should you choose to stay here, but I can no longer support what Head-Fi has become.
> 
> Goodbye.


You’ll be missed my friend!


----------



## Juturna

snowy8171 said:


> what do you guys recc for a true wireless set with the best sound quality? i dont know the diff brands that are out there.


I mean, there are plenty of good true wireless earbuds out right now, if you don't have a fixed budget but just want what's best, I think people here seem to vouch for:

Bang & Olufsen Beoplay EQ
Devialet Gemini
Bowers & Wilkins PI7
Klipsch T5 II ANC

and maaaaybe
Sennheiser Momentum True Wireless 2
Sony WF-1000XM4
Galaxy Buds Pro - If you like something close to the Harman Target i guess and aren't on an iPhone.
Cambridge Audio Melomania Touch - If you're looking for something with more value for the money and don't care about ANC and call quality etc.

I might be forgetting some earbuds but these are the ones I see mentioned the most in the thread recently.
Many of these are pretty expensive and some of them have some pretty glaring flaws but unrelated to the sound, but other things (battery life, call quality, fit, ANC/lack thereof etc)


----------



## BooleanBones

Juturna said:


> I mean, there are plenty of good true wireless earbuds out right now, if you don't have a fixed budget but just want what's best, I think people here seem to vouch for:
> 
> Bang & Olufsen Beoplay EQ
> Devialet Gemini
> ...


For the record, as wonderful as they are, my EQs are going back due to an annoying pop that can be heard on some tracks. They don't have an answer for it, so they will get them back. (I am not the only one with the issue)


----------



## helmutcheese (Sep 5, 2021)

Edifier NeoBuds Pro​
LDAC to be added this month (apparently) , SBC/AAC LHDC support for now


----------



## erockg

BooleanBones said:


> For the record, as wonderful as they are, my EQs are going back due to an annoying pop that can be heard on some tracks. They don't have an answer for it, so they will get them back. (I am not the only one with the issue)


@snowy8171 @Juturna, I second this.  Despite the amazing sound and features, my EQs went back.  Same pop in the left earbud.  B&O do not have a fix (if any) yet.  I'd put the Devialet Gemini as my number one.  Klipsch T5 II ANC McLaren my number two right now.  Zero issues with either.


----------



## snowy8171 (Sep 5, 2021)

Thanks yall. Will be checking these out. Hopefully the eq get fixed, cause I was checking those out and the bowers and Wilkins first


----------



## VICosPhi (Sep 5, 2021)

Got my Edifier Neobuds and the sound is good but not great. They seem a bit muffled to me, especially on phone calls. Expected a lot better treble since they have a Knowles BA driver. Mic is good though and ANC is as good as Sony XM4s in my opinion. Case is small and looks cool. Wished if they sounded less muffled.

Back to my Sennheiser MTW2 as I have yet to hear another TWS that is better sounding to my ears at least. The touch customizability makes these perfect.


----------



## helmutcheese

Bummer.


----------



## Luke Skywalker (Sep 5, 2021)

jonathane40 said:


> I started a new thread before I saw this one. Has anyone used a true wireless MMCX adapter with CA Amdromeda like the Shure RMCE-TW1 or FiiO UTWS3? I would love to be able to enjoy the Andromeda’s When out and a little without having to deal with cables and adapters. I’m using an iPhone so not sure how Bluetooth connection would be between these adapters and iOS. I’m not looking at EQ not anything fancy


I use 4-pin -> MMCX adapters with adjustable bass to connect my JH Lola’s to the Fiio UTSW3. I’m listening to them right now in fact. Absolutely incredible sound


----------



## Luke Skywalker

cresny said:


> I think it's great that the Gemini is finally getting some due props. These days I think we're all inclined to dismiss things like EAM or IDC as mere "hackronymns" but Devialet's Ear Active Matching and Internal Delay Compensation might actually be some pretty amazing technology, not just "tuning" (as it's all-too-often put here). These innovations probably require some physical space to do their thing and then there's the proprietary 10mm driver, so the size of the buds is probably non-negotiable. The case might be able to be shrunk a slight amount, but with the battery and wireless charging I trust Devialet did the best they could.
> 
> As for LDAC, these get maybe 4 hours with apt-x and ANC. So maybe BT 5.2 will help (?) butI guess what we have is the current state of the art for now.


i love the Gemini sound and the ANC but they don’t stay in my ears very well despite trying dozens of different tips. I also get a popping sound on the right one when I move around so they’re not good for the gym. Oh and the case pops open in my bag a lot.  But they do sound pretty Incredible!


----------



## Luke Skywalker

EMINENT said:


> I want to spend upwards of $1000 for the ultimate tws, but no manufacturer wants to step up and they just keep making mediocre crap.


I have about $2K into my setup - JH Lola + Fiio UTSW3. The sound is astonishing. that might be your best option if you want to go high end. The other nice thing is you can toss the adapters out as new wireless technology comes out or batteries wear out


----------



## clerkpalmer

erockg said:


> @snowy8171 @Juturna, I second this.  Despite the amazing sound and features, my EQs went back.  Same pop in the left earbud.  B&O do not have a fix (if any) yet.  I'd put the Devialet Gemini as my number one.  Klipsch T5 II ANC McLaren my number two right now.  Zero issues with either.


Possible same boat here. No popping but the fit sucks for me. I need something with some grip. Any recommendations? The stock are best but any sweat and forget it. I'm bummed. Pulled my pi7 out and the EQ sound much better to me.


----------



## Luke Skywalker

somehow I just heard about the B&O EQ!  How do they compare with the Devialet?  I listen to a lot of Pink Floyd, female vocals, instrumental…


----------



## clerkpalmer

Luke Skywalker said:


> I have about $2K into my setup - JH Lola + Fiio UTSW3. The sound is astonishing. that might be your best option if you want to go high end. The other nice thing is you can toss the adapters out as new wireless technology comes out or batteries wear out


Sweet.  Not so much the money (although it's a lot) but rather lack of ANC and sweatproofing that would hold me back.


----------



## soullinker20

to devialet gemini users,

have you been experiencing fast battery drain when using the buds? mine drops from 100% to 67% in an hour of usage with ANC on ang volume setting at half. I'm not sure if the battery health has already dropped because of the battery drain issue before the April update.


----------



## clerkpalmer

Luke Skywalker said:


> I have about $2K into my setup - JH Lola + Fiio UTSW3. The sound is astonishing. that might be your best option if you want to go high end. The other nice thing is you can toss the adapters out as new wireless technology comes out or batteries wear out


Sweet.  Not so much the money (although it's a lotbut rather lack of ANC and sweatproofing that would hold me back.


soullinker20 said:


> to devialet gemini users,
> 
> have you been experiencing fast battery drain when using the buds? mine drops from 100% to 67% in an hour of usage with ANC on ang volume setting at half. I'm not sure if the battery health has already dropped because of the battery drain issue before the April update.


Battery drain in standby here for me. There's an update?


----------



## clerkpalmer

The mw08 are growing on me. The muddiness is subdued when working out with some background noise. Almost offsets it. Might keep em. Really like the fit. Disappear in the ear.


----------



## soullinker20

clerkpalmer said:


> Sweet.  Not so much the money (although it's a lotbut rather lack of ANC and sweatproofing that would hold me back.
> 
> Battery drain in standby here for me. There's an update?


Last update was April which addressed the standby battery drain. Now in my case, the buds uses a lot of battery in just a short period of time usage.


----------



## clerkpalmer

soullinker20 said:


> Last update was April which addressed the standby battery drain. Now in my case, the buds uses a lot of battery in just a short period of time usage.


Thanks. I missed that one.  As for high drain in use is it in both buds?


----------



## cresny

soullinker20 said:


> to devialet gemini users,
> 
> have you been experiencing fast battery drain when using the buds? mine drops from 100% to 67% in an hour of usage with ANC on ang volume setting at half. I'm not sure if the battery health has already dropped because of the battery drain issue before the April update.


I think I'd get 4 hours max with ANC on, .4 volume, but tbh I rarely use them straight that long. I think this is their biggest weakness but apparently they're working on new firmware to address this. They knocked the standby drain issue out of the park so I have some hope they can do something here as well.

I also had concerns about how the early issues may have shortened their life, but the free Devialet Care absolved all that for me.


----------



## soullinker20

cresny said:


> I think I'd get 4 hours max with ANC on, .4 volume, but tbh I rarely use them straight that long. I think this is their biggest weakness but apparently they're working on new firmware to address this. They knocked the standby drain issue out of the park so I have some hope they can do something here as well.
> 
> I also had concerns about how the early issues may have shortened their life, but the free Devialet Care absolved all that for me.


were you able to replace your geminis?


----------



## soullinker20

clerkpalmer said:


> Thanks. I missed that one.  As for high drain in use is it in both buds?


both. right earbud drops faster since this is the master earbud.


----------



## Luke Skywalker

Totally random guys but I’m listening to a Tidal track that sounds amazing on the Devialet. Canopée by Polo & Pan


----------



## scubaphish (Sep 5, 2021)

soullinker20 said:


> to devialet gemini users,
> 
> have you been experiencing fast battery drain when using the buds? mine drops from 100% to 67% in an hour of usage with ANC on ang volume setting at half. I'm not sure if the battery health has already dropped because of the battery drain issue before the April update.


At end of first hour left/right battery remain spilt at around 80%/75%. Hour 4, 25/10. Maybe an extra 30 min of usage with ANC off.

Edit: I also use the EQ with bands adjusted anywhere from +2.0 to 0.4. Overall ios volume of max 50%


----------



## soullinker20

scubaphish said:


> At end of first hour left/right battery remain spilt at around 80%/75%. Hour 4, 25/10. Maybe an extra 30 min of usage with ANC off.


thanks on the info.

I guess there is more battery usage after the April update then.


----------



## scubaphish

soullinker20 said:


> thanks on the info.
> 
> I guess there is more battery usage after the April update then.


Personally can’t speak to delta with, or prior firmware impact to battery health; a fairly recent acquisition for me. Even with limited non-stop battery I couldn’t be happier with my choice. Don’t even care that the automatic pause doesn’t often work. The sound is amazing (with iPhone) and ANC remarkably effective…and can turn ambient and ANC on/off from buds.


----------



## cresny

soullinker20 said:


> were you able to replace your geminis?


No but if either bud somehow gets damaged the next 2+ years I will be able to.


----------



## erockg

clerkpalmer said:


> Possible same boat here. No popping but the fit sucks for me. I need something with some grip. Any recommendations? The stock are best but any sweat and forget it. I'm bummed. Pulled my pi7 out and the EQ sound much better to me.


I know Spinfit makes a longer tip that fits the B&O great.  They fit deeper than most.  https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01B793SLU/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1  Also, the ePro tips (large) worked well for me with them.

I'll definitely repurchase the B&Os if they fix the issue a bunch of us have.  Only happens with some tracks.  Such a bummer.

Truly wanted to love those PI7s, but man, tons of bugs on my end.


----------



## erockg

clerkpalmer said:


> The mw08 are growing on me. The muddiness is subdued when working out with some background noise. Almost offsets it. Might keep em. Really like the fit. Disappear in the ear.


You have the standard MW08s, right?  Not the Sport?  How are the calls on the standard?  I don't remember how they were when I had them.  I know the MW08S have been giving me tons of issues with phone and Zoom calls.  Sent them back too.


----------



## scubaphish

erockg said:


> I know Spinfit makes a longer tip that fits the B&O great.  They fit deeper than most.  https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01B793SLU/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1  Also, the ePro tips (large) worked well for me with them.
> 
> I'll definitely repurchase the B&Os if they fix the issue a bunch of us have.  Only happens with some tracks.  Such a bummer.
> 
> Truly wanted to love those PI7s, but man, tons of bugs on my end.


I really wanted to love the PI7. Stable but less than their best performance with iOS and unstable with AptX and HD, in my experience. I tried 3 sets.


----------



## erockg

scubaphish said:


> I really wanted to love the PI7. Stable but less than their best performance with iOS and unstable with AptX and HD, in my experience. I tried 3 sets.


Same here.  2 sets and even the PI5.  Hopefully, gen 2 is way better.  For now, I'm sticking with the Devialet and Klipsch.  APP for calls and spatial audio.  Trying out the Jaybird Vista 2s because saved $60 on them!


----------



## scubaphish (Sep 5, 2021)

erockg said:


> Same here.  2 sets and even the PI5.  Hopefully, gen 2 is way better.  For now, I'm sticking with the Devialet and Klipsch.  APP for calls and spatial audio.  Trying out the Jaybird Vista 2s because saved $60 on them!


Nice! Similarishboat..Gemini and APP respective go tos and I’m trying out the MT and Fiil T1 XS (because it was half price). They both eq to pleasing sound very very well.

edit: oh yeah, and I tried the PI5, too. So 🤬 close


----------



## HaliHarry

erockg said:


> I know Spinfit makes a longer tip that fits the B&O great.  They fit deeper than most.  https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01B793SLU/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1  Also, the ePro tips (large) worked well for me with them.
> 
> I'll definitely repurchase the B&Os if they fix the issue a bunch of us have.  Only happens with some tracks.  Such a bummer.
> 
> Truly wanted to love those PI7s, but man, tons of bugs on my end.


Plz tell me what problem with B&O ??


----------



## erockg

HaliHarry said:


> Plz tell me what problem with B&O ??


See page 2463.  Conversation there with a few of us.


----------



## Tommy C (Sep 6, 2021)

erockg said:


> Same here.  2 sets and even the PI5.  Hopefully, gen 2 is way better.  For now, I'm sticking with the Devialet and Klipsch.  APP for calls and spatial audio.  Trying out the Jaybird Vista 2s because saved $60 on them!


What do you think about the Jaybird Vista 2?
I can too get them on sale + a gift card to a local store. The hunt is real...


----------



## darveniza

erockg said:


> @snowy8171 @Juturna, I second this.  Despite the amazing sound and features, my EQs went back.  Same pop in the left earbud.  B&O do not have a fix (if any) yet.  I'd put the Devialet Gemini as my number one.  Klipsch T5 II ANC McLaren my number two right now.  Zero issues with either.


Weird I have that issue but with the Devialet


----------



## BooleanBones

Luke Skywalker said:


> somehow I just heard about the B&O EQ!  How do they compare with the Devialet?  I listen to a lot of Pink Floyd, female vocals, instrumental…


I listen to a lot of the same. The EQs are really great for this, but there is this weird issue where it has a pop/clip in the buds on certain tracks which they cannot explain yet. I really hope they resolve this as it can be a total dead finger when you are listening to a wonderful song.


----------



## Tommy C

BooleanBones said:


> I listen to a lot of the same. The EQs are really great for this, but there is this weird issue where it has a pop/clip in the buds on certain tracks which they cannot explain yet. I really hope they resolve this as it can be a total dead finger when you are listening to a wonderful song.


Honestly, at this price bracket it shouldn’t happen so here’s hoping it can be resolved with a firmware update. Question is, are you willing to live with it for now assuming they can fix it and if not it’s gonna be a real bummer.


----------



## HaliHarry

BooleanBones said:


> Tôi nghe rất nhiều giống nhau. Các EQ thực sự tuyệt vời cho điều này, nhưng có một vấn đề kỳ lạ này là nó có một pop / clip trong các bản nhạc nhất định mà họ chưa thể giải thích. Tôi thực sự hy vọng họ giải quyết vấn đề này vì nó có thể là một ngón tay chết hoàn toàn khi bạn đang nghe một bài hát tuyệt vời.


Bạn đã thử tắt ANC và nghe lại chưa ?? PI7 của tôi gặp vấn đề tương tự nhưng chỉ khi ANC được bật và âm thanh piano ở rất cao Note.


----------



## HaliHarry

BooleanBones said:


> I listen to a lot of the same. The EQs are really great for this, but there is this weird issue where it has a pop/clip in the buds on certain tracks which they cannot explain yet. I really hope they resolve this as it can be a total dead finger when you are listening to a wonderful song.


Have you tried to turn off ANC then listen again ? My PI7 meets the same problem but just when ANC is on and piano sound very high note.


----------



## Luke Skywalker

BooleanBones said:


> I listen to a lot of the same. The EQs are really great for this, but there is this weird issue where it has a pop/clip in the buds on certain tracks which they cannot explain yet. I really hope they resolve this as it can be a total dead finger when you are listening to a wonderful song.


Thank you my friend!


----------



## scubaphish (Sep 6, 2021)

Luke Skywalker said:


> i love the Gemini sound and the ANC but they don’t stay in my ears very well despite trying dozens of different tips. I also get a popping sound on the right one when I move around so they’re not good for the gym. Oh and the case pops open in my bag a lot.  But they do sound pretty Incredible!


I agree, at least to my ear biology, not best suited for gym/workout. While they don’t feel like they are falling out, I get movement noises I think because they are a little floppy/top heavy

edit: I can still use them with great success walking dog or around town; just not best for running, etc


----------



## Juturna

I'm either going to get the NuraTrue today after work (or another day this week) or getting the Devialet Gemini's in a month or so...  It's a tough choice.
I have zero opportunity to test out the Gemini's and my ears are pretty weird so finding a perfect fit is not a certainty, but the NuraTrue I've actually tried and I liked them, combined with the fact that it's $100 cheaper makes me lean towards the NuraTrue, but i'm... not sure.


----------



## clerkpalmer

erockg said:


> I know Spinfit makes a longer tip that fits the B&O great.  They fit deeper than most.  https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01B793SLU/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1  Also, the ePro tips (large) worked well for me with them.
> 
> I'll definitely repurchase the B&Os if they fix the issue a bunch of us have.  Only happens with some tracks.  Such a bummer.
> 
> Truly wanted to love those PI7s, but man, tons of bugs on my end.


Thanks. Deeper doesn't work for me. I guess they have to go back. Wish they had a wing or stability system. Too bad. Excellent sounding.


----------



## clerkpalmer

erockg said:


> You have the standard MW08s, right?  Not the Sport?  How are the calls on the standard?  I don't remember how they were when I had them.  I know the MW08S have been giving me tons of issues with phone and Zoom calls.  Sent them back too.


I don't need them for calls so it's not a deal breaker for me. Yes standard mw08.


----------



## erockg

Tommy C said:


> What do you think about the Jaybird Vista 2?
> I can too get them on sale + a gift card to a local store. The hunt is real...


Still  testing them out.  So far, They are nice.  BT range isn’t that great if I leave them in a room 30 feet away whereas others seem the work better.  The JB2 disconnect and reconnect when you walk back in.  Sound has deep bass.  The app is great and there are some great EQ presets.  Fit is snug and form-factor is small.  For the $140 I paid, they’re worth it.


----------



## erockg

clerkpalmer said:


> Thanks. Deeper doesn't work for me. I guess they have to go back. Wish they had a wing or stability system. Too bad. Excellent sounding.


That’s a bummer. Yes, I absolutely love the sound on them. I’m already having remorse for sending them back. I’ll most likely revisit if they go on sale at some point on Amazon.


----------



## clerkpalmer

erockg said:


> That’s a bummer. Yes, I absolutely love the sound on them. I’m already having remorse for sending them back. I’ll most likely revisit if they go on sale at some point on Amazon.


Just need to try some other tips maybe. The sedans are too large for the bore and slip right off but I've had good luck with them. Listening back to back with the pi7 really is eye opening. May try a couple more things before bagging it.


----------



## scubaphish (Sep 6, 2021)

clerkpalmer said:


> Just need to try some other tips maybe. The sedans are too large for the bore and slip right off but I've had good luck with them. Listening back to back with the pi7 really is eye opening. May try a couple more things before bagging it.


Would you expand on what you mean on “eye opening” wrt comparison of the two? What becomes apparent? Thanks.

the no wing buds, I find if don’t lock in it’s the length of the bore tube itself that leads to the feeling of looseness. Things kind of flop on that axis.  I liked how the final lock in my ears; but the bore tube is long enough that the MW08 and the Gemini would be more prone to flopping


----------



## erockg

erockg said:


> Still  testing them out.  So far, They are nice.  BT range isn’t that great if I leave them in a room 30 feet away whereas others seem the work better.  The JB2 disconnect and reconnect when you walk back in.  Sound has deep bass.  The app is great and there are some great EQ presets.  Fit is snug and form-factor is small.  For the $140 I paid, they’re worth it.


Further to this, they definitely are not as clean as the Klipsch T5 II ANC and Devialet.  The former, I'm listening to right now.  But the JBV2s are powerful and get loud.  For those who like EQ options and need something to work out with, they might be worth a look.  That said, the lack of a strong BT connection when distancing yourself from your phone or devices may be a dealbreaker.


----------



## Tommy C

erockg said:


> Further to this, they definitely are not as clean as the Klipsch T5 II ANC and Devialet.  The former, I'm listening to right now.  But the JBV2s are powerful and get loud.  For those who like EQ options and need something to work out with, they might be worth a look.  That said, the lack of a strong BT connection when distancing yourself from your phone or devices may be a dealbreaker.


Thanks for the input, man. 
Much appreciated.


----------



## pitch_black

New firmware for the EQ (Version 5.3.0). Maybe this fixes this clipping issue some hear….. I don’t no matter what I do.


----------



## erockg

pitch_black said:


> New firmware for the EQ (Version 5.3.0). Maybe this fixes this clipping issue some hear….. I don’t no matter what I do.


Let me know @BooleanBones!


----------



## pitch_black

Maybe I’m already a bit deaf….. but shouldn’t I hear it within this track:


----------



## DRuM

DRuM said:


> Further to my previous post on the Creative Outlier Air v3 where I said ambient mode and ANR seemed rather ineffective, I just realised that the Creative app allows you to increase the levels of both of those modes. I'll report back after I've installed the app and tested how much difference it might make.



I've tested the Creative app. I can't hear any difference with active noise reduction at maximum level. Ambient mode works quite well. Overall, a bit gimmicky. Loving the sound quality of the buds though!  Next, I'm going to download the Creative Super X-Fi app, do some head and ear mapping and see how the out of head experience is.


----------



## BooleanBones

pitch_black said:


> Maybe I’m already a bit deaf….. but shouldn’t I hear it within this track:


Can't try this out now, but try listening to the first 50 seconds of Lisa Stansfield - All around the world. It is very evident in that song. It does lighten when ANC is turned off. Updating the software shortly and will give it a go


----------



## BooleanBones

erockg said:


> Let me know @BooleanBones!


Now I have to unbox them  I might do a cartwheel if this resolves what we hear. Not sure why they didn't mention the update coming when they were mailing with me last week.


----------



## pitch_black

BooleanBones said:


> Can't try this out now, but try listening to the first 50 seconds of Lisa Stansfield - All around the world. It is very evident in that song. It does lighten when ANC is turned off. Updating the software shortly and will give it a go


On the left and/or right side? Did you mentions it’s especially prominent on the left side?
But thanks I’ll try….. I have ANC on most of the time, maybe that why I don’t hear it.


----------



## BooleanBones

pitch_black said:


> On the left and/or right side? Did you mentions it’s especially prominent on the left side?
> But thanks I’ll try….. I have ANC on most of the time, maybe that why I don’t hear it.


Yep, it's primarily in the left. I have heard a bit on the right as well, but have noticed it clearly in the left.


----------



## BooleanBones

BooleanBones said:


> Yep, it's primarily in the left. I have heard a bit on the right as well, but have noticed it clearly in the left.


On that Lisa Stansfield track it's still there after the update and with either ANC or Ambient enabled. I don't seem to hear it with those two features off. Going to listen to some more tracks, but I think it's still the same for me.


----------



## pitch_black

Now I hear it…… cranked up the EQ of the EQ , volume and ANC on. After 13 seconds into the song. 
Can’t hear it with ANC off. Tried with Apple Music and Tidal HiFi on iOS 15 Beta.


----------



## BooleanBones

pitch_black said:


> Now I hear it…… cranked up the EQ of the EQ , volume and ANC on. After 13 seconds into the song.
> Can’t hear it with ANC off. Tried with Apple Music and Tidal HiFi on iOS 15 Beta.


yeah, those two items is exactly how we have also been checking it (Volume/EQ). As @clerkpalmer mentioned, once you hear it you can't stop hearing it  I emailed them yesterday again to see what they say about replicating it there as I have a bit of buffer yet before the return period expires. I have been talking with a couple folks in the head office, so we'll see.


----------



## pitch_black

To be fair….. as an iPhone & Watch User I always had some issues with TWS - except the AirPods/Pro. The WF-XM3 was almost unusable for quite some time with the early firmwares. Everytime I unlock the phone with the „unlock with Apple Watch“ function I had a similar pop/clip - also with the EQ but not as bad as with the Sony back in the day. Maybe that’s one of the reason I don’t hear it that much as others….. I’m already used to this sound.

If it’s audible with ANC but not without the chances are good it get fixed by firmware at some point.


----------



## pitch_black

Now let’s try it with an android phone and with the H95 and later after the firmware update.


----------



## BooleanBones

pitch_black said:


> Now let’s try it with an android phone and with the H95 and later after the firmware update.


I actually wanted to try it on Android as well, but for some reason, they said the application is not compatible with my Android 9 Walkman. Won't let me download it from the Play store. Good test you are doing for sure.


----------



## erockg

BooleanBones said:


> yeah, those two items is exactly how we have also been checking it (Volume/EQ). As @clerkpalmer mentioned, once you hear it you can't stop hearing it  I emailed them yesterday again to see what they say about replicating it there as I have a bit of buffer yet before the return period expires. I have been talking with a couple folks in the head office, so we'll see.


I filled out the questionnaire today as well and sent them an email back even though mine have been returned. Truly hope they figure this out because they are very very nice.


----------



## pitch_black

Unfortunately I still can hear it after the update but as before only with the EQ’s EQ cranked up into the heights. If I listen with the usual Flossy preset it’s not present/audible.

I quickly tried it before the update on an android phone - OnePlus 7 Pro. I hear it there as well but a few seconds earlier (with AptX Adaptive). Also I noticed an annoying static sound at the beginning when the earbud switch on. This I don’t have on iOS at all.
As expected no issues with the H95.


----------



## pitch_black

Good news to all (European?) iPhone/iOS users….. the volume on the EQ is now higher.


----------



## BooleanBones

pitch_black said:


> Unfortunately I still can hear it after the update but as before only with the EQ’s EQ cranked up into the heights. If I listen with the usual Flossy preset it’s not present/audible.
> 
> I quickly tried it before the update on an android phone - OnePlus 7 Pro. I hear it there as well but a few seconds earlier (with AptX Adaptive). Also I noticed an annoying static sound at the beginning when the earbud switch on. This I don’t have on iOS at all.
> As expected no issues with the H95.


Thanks for checking. I will post here when I hear back from them. Like you mentioned, it is probably something that will be fixed eventually with a Firmware update. Big question is whether to hold onto them while waiting. If they at least acknowledge it, I am probably good with keeping them in the stable. We'll see


----------



## pitch_black

BooleanBones said:


> Thanks for checking. I will post here when I hear back from them. Like you mentioned, it is probably something that will be fixed eventually with a Firmware update. Big question is whether to hold onto them while waiting. If they at least acknowledge it, I am probably good with keeping them in the stable. We'll see


I’ll report it too, the more people the better


----------



## BooleanBones

pitch_black said:


> I’ll report it too, the more people the better


My ticket number is 505393 if you want to reference that in your for any reason.


----------



## erockg

BooleanBones said:


> My ticket number is 505393 if you want to reference that in your for any reason.


509334 here.


----------



## Tommy C

BooleanBones said:


> Thanks for checking. I will post here when I hear back from them. Like you mentioned, it is probably something that will be fixed eventually with a Firmware update. Big question is whether to hold onto them while waiting. If they at least acknowledge it, I am probably good with keeping them in the stable. We'll see


FWIW my take would be to return them and purchase them again once it’s fixed, assuming they are able to fix it which is probably the case. If they don’t fix it in timely manner and you know it’s there you will have a hard time enjoying them. 
Been there done that a few years ago with a phone that had a problem. Samsung was never able to fix it and I ended up getting rid of a great phone despite the promises to issue a fix.
Not a similar scenario but you got my point


----------



## darveniza

Did the update and notice some erratic behavior on the B&O EQ , basically had to placed them back on the case and start to charge them via wired connection/not wireless ( as this creates a real disconnect from the phone-have experimented with the Klipsch ANC T5ii as it does the same). In any case I closed Tidal and Spotify prior to reconnecting and all erratic behavior is gone away.


----------



## HaliHarry (Sep 6, 2021)

darveniza said:


> TWS are becoming a problem as traditional IEM's , current picture did not include my Grados as my son is using them
> 
> As of today,
> 
> ...


Which one has biggest soundstage in your colection excluding AZ70?? ( in both depth and width ) Thank you <3


----------



## EMINENT

Every time I listen to my XM4's they get more terrible each time.


----------



## clerkpalmer

scubaphish said:


> Would you expand on what you mean on “eye opening” wrt comparison of the two? What becomes apparent? Thanks.
> 
> the no wing buds, I find if don’t lock in it’s the length of the bore tube itself that leads to the feeling of looseness. Things kind of flop on that axis.  I liked how the final lock in my ears; but the bore tube is long enough that the MW08 and the Gemini would be more prone to flopping


The pi7 need aptxhd to shine. While excellent sounding, compared to the eq, they are not as smooth, lack some sparkle (no eq app) and sound a bit harsh in comparison. The EQ are tuned really really well. Some magic at work there.  I might need to grab an h95.


----------



## jsmiller58

EMINENT said:


> Every time I listen to my XM4's they get more terrible each time.


Sorry to hear that!  For my tastes they are great.

Fortunately there are many TWS to choose from, and many more coming on the market each month.  Hopefully you will find something that works well for you!


----------



## HaliHarry

clerkpalmer said:


> The pi7 need aptxhd to shine. While excellent sounding, compared to the eq, they are not as smooth, lack some sparkle (no eq app) and sound a bit harsh in comparison. The EQ are tuned really really well. Some magic at work there.  I might need to grab an h95.


Can you compare midrange and vocal of PI7 and EQ ??


----------



## Juturna

EMINENT said:


> Every time I listen to my XM4's they get more terrible each time.


While that's a blunt way of framing it, I felt the same about my XM4's, and that's why I couldn't motivate myself into keeping them.

I don't think it *literally *got worse each listen but I just couldn't find any sort of sweet spot with the sound and ended up being disappointed with the sound every time I used them so I tried EQ:ing them constantly but never felt like they delivered.


----------



## Thesonofkrypton

jsmiller58 said:


> Sorry to hear that!  For my tastes they are great.
> 
> Fortunately there are many TWS to choose from, and many more coming on the market each month.  Hopefully you will find something that works well for you!



Same here, very happy with them as a package.  Can't be touched by any other on the market for everything in one set of truly wireless - if they fit you.  

I understand some have emperor ears and want only the very best sound matching wired earphones.  LDAC is pretty decent from my experience for on the go but if that isn't good enough for some on the go, I'm afraid we live within the limitations of current technology and you're going to have to wait lol


----------



## Aevum

my N400 have no difference with ANC on and ANC off. is this normal or are they broken ?

Im using comply tips.


----------



## scubaphish (Sep 7, 2021)

Anyone experience issues with Melomania Touch transparency mode? At first didn’t work at all, then did a couple of resets and now right side works but left side is all static and crackle. Tried moving the fins around to make sure wasn’t blocking the mic. Opened a ticket with CA, but curious if others had similar issues.  Thanks

CA got back already with a bunch of troubleshooting that resulted in no change. Looks like a bad mic


----------



## Devodonaldson

Thesonofkrypton said:


> Same here, very happy with them as a package.  Can't be touched by any other on the market for everything in one set of truly wireless - if they fit you.
> 
> I understand some have emperor ears and want only the very best sound matching wired earphones.  LDAC is pretty decent from my experience for on the go but if that isn't good enough for some on the go, I'm afraid we live within the limitations of current technology and you're going to have to wait lol


Not just about Golden ears, lol. I have them and honestly love them, with xelastec tips. I like warmer sound signatures. I have NFP which is a 3 driver hybrid, but I prefer xm4 over those 90% of the time because the signature is more to my liking. We all hear a little differently,  so it's a good thing there are a vast number of sound signatures at different price points


----------



## Tommy C

scubaphish said:


> Anyone experience issues with Melomania Touch transparency mode? At first didn’t work at all, then did a couple of resets and now right side works but left side is all static and crackle. Tried moving the fins around to make sure wasn’t blocking the mic. Opened a ticket with CA, but curious if others had similar issues.  Thanks
> 
> CA got back already with a bunch of troubleshooting that resulted in no change. Looks like a bad mic


I don’t have the crackle issue but mine switched the transparency on/off by itself a few times and I’m unable to carry a convo on the phone as people are telling me I sound very distorted or very muffled so I’m suspecting it’s a bad mic.  
I’m still within the return window so will see if CA can assist but I’m not super hopeful and may need to bag them.


----------



## Tommy C

Tommy C said:


> I don’t have the crackle issue but mine switched the transparency on/off by itself a few times and I’m unable to carry a convo on the phone as people are telling me I sound very distorted or very muffled so I’m suspecting it’s a bad mic.
> I’m still within the return window so will see if CA can assist but I’m not super hopeful and may need to bag them.


@scubaphish just to add to this - I found on Amazon someone posted a review with the following method for iOS:

_On iOS 14 Bluetooth
1. Insert and pair one earphone; When it's mounted, press to Connect
(You'll get audio confirmations as you proceed)
2. When the 1st is Connected, press and hold the other to Pair
3. The 2nd will load and you'll get a dialog box to Pair the set.
4. Proceed and you'll get audio confirmation "Melomania Paired".
5. Note:
One earphone will be "Connected".
One will read "Not Connected" . That's correct._

It's worth a shot. That's what I did a few days ago and the connection has been OK so far but the mic issue that I'm experiencing is a separate issue it seems.


----------



## scubaphish

Tommy C said:


> @scubaphish just to add to this - I found on Amazon someone posted a review with the following method for iOS:
> 
> _On iOS 14 Bluetooth
> 1. Insert and pair one earphone; When it's mounted, press to Connect
> ...


Thanks. This am they suggested to try changing which is primary…and also try a second source. Did both those things, then I just started fresh and I did a reset then just unpaired and repaired them following pretty much the steps you presented (thanks for that!!) but left side just crackles with transparency on. Sounds like a short to me.
Connection has been ok, although haven’t tried to use the phone,


----------



## Tommy C

scubaphish said:


> Thanks. This am they suggested to try changing which is primary…and also try a second source. Did both those things, then I just started fresh and I did a reset then just unpaired and repaired them following pretty much the steps you presented (thanks for that!!) but left side just crackles with transparency on. Sounds like a short to me.
> Connection has been ok, although haven’t tried to use the phone,


Argh, definitely a bummer and indeed it sounds like a short. I like the CA MT sound overall but the electrical gremlins can be frustrating. 

I have the Soundcore Liberty Pro 2 + coming in today. I don’t like the form factor judging from photos but between them and and CA MT one will need to be returned based on sound quality, functionality and reliability.


----------



## Tenlow (Sep 7, 2021)

pitch_black said:


> Good news to all (European?) iPhone/iOS users….. the volume on the EQ is now higher.


Is that officially documented in release notes or anything? I received my EQs today and find them fairly quiet (latest firmware). My MW08 Sport are definitely audibly louder.


----------



## jant71

https://www.pocket-lint.com/headpho...hure-aonic-215-gen-2-specs-release-date-price
Better but not by that much.


----------



## MichaelScarn

After a couple of months of using the Status Between Pro’s, I’m still very happy. 

Pro’s:
They truly sound amazing, was blown away recently when I listened to the newly released The Doors’ Riders on The Storm (Sunset Sound Demo) on Tidal.
The fit is snug and comfortable. Where I kept fiddling with the CA Melomania Touch, these just fit well and stay put. There’s no ANC, but the passive noise cancellation works so well I sometimes have to take them out when communicating with other people when doing groceries or something.
Very fast and quite stable connection.


Con’s:
Voices in podcasts can sound a bit sharp (?) sometimes, especially the S, C and F.
Can be challenging taking them out of the case. 
And, more importantly, sometimes they keep connected when in the case and even continue to play music.
This could be something a firmware update could fix, but unfortunately there’s no app.


----------



## Tommy C (Sep 7, 2021)

Received the Soundcore Liberty 2 Pro +. Newer version looks identical to the predecessor but the logo is in bronze. I never owned the original L2P so this is from photos alone.
The fit is excellent and very comfortable. The Ambient mode is very good and sounds better than the CA MT.
I fiddled around with them a little and they sound good! EQ works well and the HearID in my case works well and I was able to customize the sound to my liking.
The sound, despite these having a hybrid setup with one Knowles BA and one dynamic (Coaxial?) driver while is good, I don't find it to be exceptional - this is just an early impression so take it with a grain of salt.
Compared to the CA MT they have a nicer app and so far it looks free of any bugs.
I need some more time to see which one I prefer; the CA MT or the Soundcore L2P+.


----------



## bladefd

scubaphish said:


> Anyone experience issues with Melomania Touch transparency mode? At first didn’t work at all, then did a couple of resets and now right side works but left side is all static and crackle. Tried moving the fins around to make sure wasn’t blocking the mic. Opened a ticket with CA, but curious if others had similar issues.  Thanks
> 
> CA got back already with a bunch of troubleshooting that resulted in no change. Looks like a bad mic


Looks like a faulty unit. Get it rma'd.


----------



## darveniza

HaliHarry said:


> Which one has biggest soundstage in your colection excluding AZ70?? ( in both depth and width ) Thank you <3


I think B&O, MW08, Devialet


----------



## jsmiller58 (Sep 7, 2021)

MichaelScarn said:


> After a couple of months of using the Status Between Pro’s, I’m still very happy.
> 
> Pro’s:
> They truly sound amazing, was blown away recently when I listened to the newly released The Doors’ Riders on The Storm (Sunset Sound Demo) on Tidal.
> ...


Despite the form factor, I too like them.  However stopped using them for the most part after the volume in the right earphone dropped.  I can compensate by adjusting my phone’s audio left/right balance, but it is a little bit of a hassle - need to adjust before using these, and return to default balance when switching to something else…


----------



## erockg (Sep 7, 2021)

jant71 said:


> https://www.pocket-lint.com/headpho...hure-aonic-215-gen-2-specs-release-date-price
> Better but not by that much.


I don't know about that.  I had the originals.  They added hardware EQ, multifunction customization (which includes volume control), auto power on and more.  Not having those three features alone were the reason I flipped mine on eBay.  This new version is worth taking a look at.  I've always love the feel of Shure IEMs.


----------



## TK33 (Sep 7, 2021)

erockg said:


> I don't know about that.  I had the originals.  They added hardware EQ, multifunction customization (which includes volume control), auto power on and more.  Those three  features alone were the reason I flipped mine on eBay.  This new version might be worth taking a look at.  I've always love the feel of Shure IEMs.


Will probably be skipping the TW2 and staying wired with my IEMs for another year.  Maybe the next gen or if a new Aonic 8 comes out. Was pretty disappointed to see only aptX still. Auto on and being able to use each side for calls is definitely a step in the right direction. 

I think the EQ functionality was just added to the Aonic 50 as well (haven't done the firmware update yet).  Glad to see Shure is improving existing products as well.

Edit: removed reference to micro USB as that was probably a typo on Shure's site. Other sites clearly state USB C.


----------



## erockg

TK33 said:


> Will probably be skipping the TW2 and staying wired with my IEMs for another year.  Maybe the next gen or if a new Aonic 8 comes out. Was pretty disappointed to see micro USB and only aptX still. Auto on and being able to use each side for calls is definitely a step in the right direction.
> 
> I think the EQ functionality was just added to the Aonic 50 as well (haven't done the firmware update yet).  Glad to see Shure is improving existing products as well.


Where did you see micro usb?  That would be awful if they went backwards.  The first gen had USB C.  They really needed to add EQ.  The SE215 will shine now.


----------



## erockg

erockg said:


> Where did you see micro usb?  That would be awful if they went backwards.  The first gen had USB C.  They really needed to add EQ.  The SE215 will shine now.


@TK33 Ah, that has to be a typo on their site:  Micro-USB-C Charging Cable


----------



## TK33

erockg said:


> @TK33 Ah, that has to be a typo on their site:  Micro-USB-C Charging Cable


Reading again youre probably right.  Probably just a typo, in which case I am not more tempted and may be keeping an eye on the price this fall (it is now in my Amazon shopping list).


----------



## erockg

TK33 said:


> Reading again youre probably right.  Probably just a typo, in which case I am not more tempted and may be keeping an eye on the price this fall (it is now in my Amazon shopping list).


My addiction is stronger than yours! Thank you for enabling me . I just ordered them. EQ and volume control-- this is truly what I wanted in the first gen. If they added it and it works properly, should be awesome. I'll report back when I get them or at least do a post here as always.


----------



## TK33

erockg said:


> My addiction is stronger than yours! Thank you for enabling me . I just ordered them. EQ and volume control-- this is truly what I wanted in the first gen. If they added it and it works properly, should be awesome. I'll report back when I get them or at least do a post here as always.


Looking forward to your feedback. Glad I could help...


----------



## Tommy C

erockg said:


> My addiction is stronger than yours! Thank you for enabling me . I just ordered them. EQ and volume control-- this is truly what I wanted in the first gen. If they added it and it works properly, should be awesome. I'll report back when I get them or at least do a post here as always.


Maybe you should have ordered the AONIC 3 Gen 2 as well. You know while you were at it lol 
As always, looking forward to hear your impression.


----------



## erockg

Tommy C said:


> Maybe you should have ordered the AONIC 3 Gen 2 as well. You know while you were at it lol
> As always, looking forward to hear your impression.


I'd aim higher!


----------



## C_Lindbergh (Sep 7, 2021)

Do any MMCX earbuds work with the Shure adapters, as long as they fit the case?

Or would you run into any issues if your IEMs differs vastly from Shure's line up in terms of. Sensitivity etc?

I really like the tiny form-factor of both the case and adapter.


----------



## jant71

erockg said:


> I don't know about that.  I had the originals.  They added hardware EQ, multifunction customization (which includes volume control), auto power on and more.  Not having those three features alone were the reason I flipped mine on eBay.  This new version is worth taking a look at.  I've always love the feel of Shure IEMs.


Yes, better, but still would have liked a newer BT with a bit better battery life. As already stated, maybe more than topping out with aptX. I would like the case to be redone. Not sure why they didn't update the way they fit in the case and also get rid of the zipper. Worth taking a look but not sure I would buy till maybe a price drop and I would not get the 215 model just the adapters solo. Of course would be more interested if there were two-pin as well as MMCX.


----------



## erockg

C_Lindbergh said:


> Do any MMCX earbuds work with the Shure adapters, as long as they fit the case?
> 
> Or would you run into any issues if your IEMs differs vastly from Shires line up in terms of. Sensitivity etc?
> 
> I really like the tiny form-factor of both the case and adapter.


Yes, any MMCX IEMs will attach.  The ones I tried made the adapters longer, but they did work perfectly.  You mileage may vary.


----------



## erockg

jant71 said:


> Yes, better, but still would have liked a newer BT with a bit better battery life. As already stated, maybe more than topping out with aptX. I would like the case to be redone. Not sure why they didn't update the way they fit in the case and also get rid of the zipper. Worth taking a look but not sure I would buy till maybe a price drop and I would not get the 215 model just the adapters solo. Of course would be more interested if there were two-pin as well as MMCX.


Oddly enough, I don't mind the case.  I'm an iPhone user, so AptX didn't matter to me.  My ears can't even tell the difference.  Apple Lossless via Apple Music seems to work well for me.  I tried a two-pin adapter with them.  While it works fine, it did make the length of the Shure TWS adapters a little long around my ears.


----------



## CocaCola15

MichaelScarn said:


> After a couple of months of using the Status Between Pro’s, I’m still very happy.
> 
> Pro’s:
> They truly sound amazing, was blown away recently when I listened to the newly released The Doors’ Riders on The Storm (Sunset Sound Demo) on Tidal.
> ...


Owned both, kept the BPs and they can, to me, sound amazing. However, the case wrangling and lack of shutoff (now and then) is annoying. But on balance, I treat them more like a stay at home pair of phones, using the CA Melomania 1+ as my road TW phones (and the reason I sold the MTs). But the BPs are really a treat, especially with well-recorded music. And to think I got them for $75 on Indiegogo. Fingers crossed they are durable.


----------



## CocaCola15

Gave the UE Fits a whirl and they are on their way back to UE. I even had two shots at getting the fit right (long story). Used the mediums that came with them stock, and while not bad, my right ear just could not get a good custom seal (always felt somewhat loose). As a result, being as they are balanced to an extreme, they sounded so thin I could not abide by them. I had to EQ the crap out of them, not fun. My wife, who is not into the hobby but wanted a pair of wireless in-ears, tried them and loves them. She has to be getting a better seal.

Saves me $175 (sale price). So what did I do? Picked up a pair of black, refurbished (my guess is returned) Samsung Galaxy Buds+ and they are very nice, comfortable, nice sound. At $63, good value.  Dare I say I am done for awhile?


----------



## erockg

CocaCola15 said:


> Gave the UE Fits a whirl and they are on their way back to UE. I even had two shots at getting the fit right (long story). Used the mediums that came with them stock, and while not bad, my right ear just could not get a good custom seal (always felt somewhat loose). As a result, being as they are balanced to an extreme, they sounded so thin I could not abide by them. I had to EQ the crap out of them, not fun. My wife, who is not into the hobby but wanted a pair of wireless in-ears, tried them and loves them. She has to be getting a better seal.
> 
> Saves me $175 (sale price). So what did I do? Picked up a pair of black, refurbished (my guess is returned) Samsung Galaxy Buds+ and they are very nice, comfortable, nice sound. At $63, good value.  Dare I say I am done for awhile?


I truly wanted to love those UE Fits.  Wound up selling mine on eBay.  Great idea though - the fitted tips.  Hopefully, next gen will be better.  Back when I had them, I asked UE if they'd ever make TWS adapters for their higher end fitted buds.  The rep said they were working on something.  We shall see!


----------



## tinyman392

C_Lindbergh said:


> Do any MMCX earbuds work with the Shure adapters, as long as they fit the case?
> 
> Or would you run into any issues if your IEMs differs vastly from Shure's line up in terms of. Sensitivity etc?
> 
> I really like the tiny form-factor of both the case and adapter.


Most MMCX earbuds will work with them.  Shure's MMCX connector is standard so it'll fit most.  There are a select few that won't work with them like the AKG N5005 and the Sennheiser IE900; there may be others too like Etymotic.  Basically anything with a recessed MMCX will not be compatible with them; everything else should work.


----------



## Luke Skywalker

Well I’m on my 2nd pair of KEF mu3’s. The first pair sounded amazing and fit great but one of the buds stopped working. The customer service was great - mailed them back and they sent me a new pair.  Unfortunately the left bud on the new pair has a popping/hissing sound. I’ve tried multiple tips.  I’m too exhausted with these things to send them back again


----------



## bladefd

I'm having charging issues again occasionally on the replacement MT. I think it's the case..

Bit disappointing. It doesn't happen as much as it used to before the RMA, but we will see as the months go by. It makes it difficult for me to recommend these earbuds to others. CA recently dropped the price to $120 on Amazon, which is great. The pairing issues are gone thanks to the firmware updates. Sound has also improved since January. Charging issue is not going anywhere though unless if they release a different case.


----------



## Mouseman

Tommy C said:


> Received the Soundcore Liberty 2 Pro +. Newer version looks identical to the predecessor but the logo is in bronze. I never owned the original L2P so this is from photos alone.
> The fit is excellent and very comfortable. The Ambient mode is very good and sounds better than the CA MT.
> I fiddled around with them a little and they sound good! EQ works well and the HearID in my case works well and I was able to customize the sound to my liking.
> The sound, despite these having a hybrid setup with one Knowles BA and one dynamic (Coaxial?) driver while is good, I don't find it to be exceptional - this is just an early impression so take it with a grain of salt.
> ...


Give them a little time to open up. The original ones weren't exceptional out of the box, but they improve. They are still some of my favorites.


----------



## clerkpalmer

So keep the EQ and try to deal with the fit and sell the pi7 or return the EQ? That is my dilemma.


----------



## erockg (Sep 7, 2021)

clerkpalmer said:


> So keep the EQ and try to deal with the fit and sell the pi7 or return the EQ? That is my dilemma.


Sell the PI7   I miss the EQs tremendously!


----------



## BooleanBones

clerkpalmer said:


> So keep the EQ and try to deal with the fit and sell the pi7 or return the EQ? That is my dilemma.


tough one for sure.


----------



## clerkpalmer

erockg said:


> Sell the PI7   I miss the EQs tremendously!


Thanks. I am leaning that way tbh. Sony xm4 foam hybrids seem like a good option. Anyone know where to source them?


----------



## clerkpalmer

clerkpalmer said:


> Thanks. I am leaning that way tbh. Sony xm4 foam hybrids seem like a good option. Anyone know where to source them?


Found em. 20 bucks for a pair. Nice.


----------



## HaliHarry (Sep 7, 2021)

I had to return the PI7, the highs are superbly controlled, airy but not harsh. However, the amount of mid-bass is too much for me and it's annoying not being able to share a song with my wife. I am deciding between B&O EQ and MW08, can someone give me some advice? I usually listen to pop music with tempo, soft mid-bass not too strong and crispers, rich sub-bass, thick and sweet vocal, big soundstage, trebble whatever. Is that too greedy? Thanks everyone ^^


----------



## clerkpalmer

HaliHarry said:


> I had to return the PI7, the highs are superbly controlled, airy but not harsh. However, the amount of mid-bass is too much for me and it's annoying not being able to share a song with my wife. I am deciding between B&O EQ and MW08, can someone give me some advice? I usually listen to pop music with tempo, mid-bass not too strong and boomy, lots of sub-bass, thick and sweet vocal, big soundstage, trebble whatever. Is that too greedy? Thanks


EQ and it's not that close if Sq matters most.


----------



## HaliHarry

clerkpalmer said:


> EQ and it's not that close if Sq matters most.


Aw thanks, so which parts make you recommend me this one??


----------



## Tommy C (Sep 7, 2021)

Tommy C said:


> Received the Soundcore Liberty 2 Pro +. Newer version looks identical to the predecessor but the logo is in bronze. I never owned the original L2P so this is from photos alone.
> The fit is excellent and very comfortable. The Ambient mode is very good and sounds better than the CA MT.
> I fiddled around with them a little and they sound good! EQ works well and the HearID in my case works well and I was able to customize the sound to my liking.
> The sound, despite these having a hybrid setup with one Knowles BA and one dynamic (Coaxial?) driver while is good, I don't find it to be exceptional - this is just an early impression so take it with a grain of salt.
> ...


OK, initial impression is very positive.
If it matters to anyone, while the Ambient mode is more natural than the CA MT it doesn't amplify enough to my liking but it's sound very natural which is nice.
There is no touch control which feels very refreshing after dealing with the CA MT for a few days and almost rage quitting them lol
The Soundcore app is probably the best in the business, really good with many eq options.
Sound signature will please most people - still early for me to make any judgment but to my ears it sounds a little too 2D right out of the box but I'm giving them some more time to see how I feel about them after a few days.


----------



## darveniza

HaliHarry said:


> I had to return the PI7, the highs are superbly controlled, airy but not harsh. However, the amount of mid-bass is too much for me and it's annoying not being able to share a song with my wife. I am deciding between B&O EQ and MW08, can someone give me some advice? I usually listen to pop music with tempo, soft mid-bass not too strong and crispers, rich sub-bass, thick and sweet vocal, big soundstage, trebble whatever. Is that too greedy? Thanks everyone ^^


Like the EQ from a tuning perspective. But hearing some of your preference maybe the MW08 If you like design and hardware controls


----------



## HaliHarry (Sep 7, 2021)

darveniza said:


> Like the EQ from a tuning perspective. But hearing some of your preference maybe the MW08 If you like design and hardware controls


to be honest i prefer the touch controller.  So is the EQ too bad for my taste?? Are they big make uncomfortable feeling just like in photo ??


----------



## nekonhime

I just got a deal of mw 08 for 150. I hope I will like them.


----------



## Tenlow (Sep 8, 2021)

I have both the EQs as well as the MW08S here at the moment.

What I can comfortably say is:

1. EQs sound better, although they need quite a bit of volume to shine (MW08s are louder in general). Not much headroom for the EQs but very good sound quality.

2. Fit is better on the MW08S for me and quite clearly so. More comfortable, less bulky, easier to quickly get in and out.

3. I prefer the buttons on the MW08S in comparison to the touch controls on the EQs. They are more complete and easily accessible. It's a real shame that you cannot skip tracks on the EQs (I mean why??). Also, the EQs don't have any voice prompts for ANC on/off and transparency etc which sometimes makes it hard to know which mode is activated when music is playing e.g.

4. Volume control especially is so much better on the MW08S. One Button for volume up and one for down with precise steps in between - that's it. On the EQs you have to tap twice and hold either the left or the right bud for changing the volume. It works but it is far from being precise. The steps are huge when upping or lowering the volume. So much so that I much prefer to do that on my phone actually!

5. The case for the EQs is very nice, though. Very small and compact and with a premium feel. The MW08S is also very premium but a bit bigger (but also probably less prone to scratches).

6. Battery life is clearly better on the MW08S. It's 12 vs 7.5 hours without ANC and roughly 10 vs 6.5 hours with ANC on. The battery in the case is also much better. No contest here. Both support charging via USB-C as well as wireless charging. The MW08S can charge quicker, though.

7. ANC is very good on the EQs, it's just a pity that it's either off or adaptive (when on). No real control about it - you have to rely on it working the way it is supposed to be in all situations and conditions. The MW08S have two modes (All Day ANC and Max) as well as ANC off. I usually use All Day ANC which seems sufficient for me.

All in all, the EQs sound a bit better and arguably have the even nicer case as well as better ANC but the MW08S are again (for me) the better overall package.


----------



## nekonhime

Tenlow said:


> I have both the EQs as well as the MW08S here at the moment.
> 
> What I can comfortably say is:
> 
> ...


Is there any major differences between the mw 08 and mw08s?


----------



## Tenlow

nekonhime said:


> Is there any major differences between the mw 08 and mw08s?


Only better and lighter case + Wireless Charging + sapphire glas on the buds instead of ceramic (which also makes them a tiny but lighter and more scratch resistant). Plus they also come with additional comply tips. Sound and ANC is the same.


----------



## nekonhime

Tenlow said:


> Only better and lighter case + Wireless Charging + sapphire glas on the buds instead of ceramic (which also makes them a tiny but lighter and more scratch resistant). Plus they also come with additional comply tips. Sound and ANC is the same.


I see, so it not worth to upgrade to mw08s


----------



## Tenlow

nekonhime said:


> I see, so it not worth to upgrade to mw08s


For me it was but that's up to the individual of course.


----------



## HaliHarry

Tenlow said:


> I have both the EQs as well as the MW08S here at the moment.
> 
> What I can comfortably say is:
> 
> ...


Very comprehensive. Thank a lot but just one more question plz. Which one have bigger soundstage ? (in both depth and width)


----------



## Tenlow

HaliHarry said:


> Very comprehensive. Thank a lot but just one more question plz. Which one have bigger soundstage ? (in both depth and width)


The EQs (with ANC off). With ANC on, the sound doesn’t change much but it feels a bit more congested to me. Still, the EQs are better in the sound department in general but the MW08S still sound very nice.


----------



## HaliHarry

This guy said that he can active Dolby Atmos in Apple Music with his EQ. Can anyone confirm that ??


----------



## clerkpalmer

HaliHarry said:


> This guy said that he can active Dolby Atmos in Apple Music with his EQ. Can anyone confirm that ??



I'll give it a try.


----------



## clerkpalmer

HaliHarry said:


> Aw thanks, so which parts make you recommend me this one??


My ears are too old and my tinnitus too loud for me to give you audiophile grade reviews.  What I can tell you is that the EQ sounds very controlled to me in all areas.  No bass boom, no sucked mids and the tonality is spot on.  Someone reported a dip around 2k which can be picked up on the flat setting but remedied by the EQ.  I have the dot moved slightly toward treble.  They lean warm but not too warm and with the app you can dial them in almost anyway you like.  They respond very well to the EQ adjustments in the app.  There is a bass bump but it's done well.  Versus the MW08, I still can't get over the boomy overwhelming nature of the low end that bleeds into the mids.  It's hard to ignore - it does subside a bit if you use them in a noiser environment.  The low end is loose.  A tip change didn't really improve it for me.  The MW08 don't sound any better to me that the MTs and maybe worse although the form factor, build and case are certainly stellar.  The ANC is average.  If you want bass cannons go for the MW08.  If you want something a more all arounder, go for the EQ.  I agree with others that the controls on the MW08 are far better but those things don't matter much to me.  I use my phone for everything anyway.


----------



## clerkpalmer

HaliHarry said:


> Very comprehensive. Thank a lot but just one more question plz. Which one have bigger soundstage ? (in both depth and width)


Neither of these - or any TWS - are great in the soundstage department.  The best I've heard to date are the Klipsch and Devialet if that matters to you.


----------



## Darkestred

Tommy C said:


> OK, initial impression is very positive.
> If it matters to anyone, while the Ambient mode is more natural than the CA MT it doesn't amplify enough to my liking but it's sound very natural which is nice.
> There is no touch control which feels very refreshing after dealing with the CA MT for a few days and almost rage quitting them lol
> The Soundcore app is probably the best in the business, really good with many eq options.
> Sound signature will please most people - still early for me to make any judgment but to my ears it sounds a little too 2D right out of the box but I'm giving them some more time to see how I feel about them after a few days.



Wonder how this sounds vs the l2p. L2p has artificial sounding treble and a recessed mid range.  I like them a lot.  MT has a fuller sound each have their ticks.


----------



## jant71

Anyone gonna try the Metalure out since they are available it seems.




https://www.metalure.co/category/wireless-earphones


----------



## darveniza

HaliHarry said:


> to be honest i prefer the touch controller.  So is the EQ too bad for my taste?? Are they big make uncomfortable feeling just like in photo ??


They are big VS the MD08


----------



## adnhussn

clerkpalmer said:


> Neither of these - or any TWS - are great in the soundstage department.  The best I've heard to date are the Klipsch and Devialet if that matters to you.


From my experience, the Nuarl series (N10 Plus in particular) has a phenomenal soundstage for a TWS.


----------



## erockg (Sep 8, 2021)

Received my Nuratrue Buds again.  Second time purchasing after I read they fixed the volume issues.  WOW.  They sure did.  Raised the volume and added a gain setting as well.  Tried out the mic for calls and it seems to work great.  No one has complained  If you're looking for something reasonably priced with stellar sound, you should try these out.  10mm drivers in each bud.  They go for $199 and I found a 10% off coupon online.  Not a bad deal.  Few features I do miss, like wireless charging, but I would say the soundstage is excellent, the sound punches after you create your personalized EQ setting.  Tap gestures are customizable.  Auto pause when you take either bud out.  They're lightweight, a bit big (round) on the outside and for me, fit great with the ePro large tips.  I'll be spending the day with them.  Will report back if I have any issues.


----------



## clerkpalmer

jant71 said:


> Anyone gonna try the Metalure out since they are available it seems.
> 
> https://www.metalure.co/category/wireless-earphones


Never heard of this company.  The ANC version looks interesting at the price.  Any information about them?


----------



## clerkpalmer

darveniza said:


> They are big VS the MD08


I'd say they are about average size for TWS.  Bigger than the MW08 but about the same as the PI7, Sony, Nura etc.  It's probably not a deal breaker although fit might be.


----------



## jant71 (Sep 8, 2021)

clerkpalmer said:


> Never heard of this company.  The ANC version looks interesting at the price.  Any information about them?


A more recent entity but so far so good it seems... https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/metalure-wave-universal-iem.25119/


----------



## Tommy C (Sep 8, 2021)

Darkestred said:


> Wonder how this sounds vs the l2p. L2p has artificial sounding treble and a recessed mid range.  I like them a lot.  MT has a fuller sound each have their ticks.


I have found this on YouTube: 
I would say pretty accurate assessment.

So far after a day I find the treble to have nice sparkle and is not artificial or piercing.
Mid range is also balanced to my ears. I don't like recessed mids and these definitely don't strike me as such.

Side by the side the CA MT are more bassy, borderline suffocating to my ears unless I eq them down quite a bit.
The sound on the MT is more vibrant and dynamic which comes to personal taste.

Prices aside, if I'm being overly critical, I would say the L2P+ is missing depth in the sound and the CA MT missing some resolution in the sound but both are very capable and very good value for money.


----------



## erockg

erockg said:


> 509334 here.


Probably a canned response but it's a start:  

Thank you for your prompt response.

We are glad to receive your feedback, and we will forward it to our supervisors for further review. 

Should you require further assistance, or have any additional questions, please do not hesitate to contact us again.

Kind regards,

*Mia* | Bang & Olufsen Support 
Email: ecom-support@bang-olufsen.com | Hotline: +44 20 37 69 02 54
BANG & OLUFSEN​


----------



## BooleanBones

erockg said:


> Probably a canned response but it's a start:
> 
> Thank you for your prompt response.
> 
> ...


I gave in and sent them back. They wanted me to send in my "faulty" set for inspection. They noted that they could not replicate the issue on their side. I give them a C- for effort trying.  I sent them back and they can take as much as they need to inspect their faulty set and not my faulty set.


----------



## clerkpalmer

erockg said:


> Probably a canned response but it's a start:
> 
> Thank you for your prompt response.
> 
> ...


Translation:  wah, wah, wah, wah, wah.  Alternative translation:  "these are selling like hotcakes to the masses, so bug off".


----------



## clerkpalmer

jant71 said:


> A more recent entity but so far so good it seems... https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/metalure-wave-universal-iem.25119/


"METALURE originated in New York and the team is formed by the audio design team from NuForce with the mission to achieve diversified fashion craftsmanship with continuous development to bring products on the market with a natural luxury."

NuForce did some mediocre stuff on Massdrop right?  Interesting but not sure.  Design looks kinda cool.


----------



## BooleanBones

clerkpalmer said:


> Translation:  wah, wah, wah, wah, wah.  Alternative translation:  "these are selling like hotcakes to the masses, so bug off".


Yep, same feeling I got. We may look into this further when folks get real upset about it. I gave it some thought and will let them work out that bug and possibly boost the volume. It's a shame because they have such good SQ and the build is wonderful.


----------



## erockg

clerkpalmer said:


> Translation:  wah, wah, wah, wah, wah.  Alternative translation:  "these are selling like hotcakes to the masses, so bug off".


Oddly enough, they pulled them from Amazon today and then they (black) is out of stock on B&Os site.  Amazon wasn't shipping until the 28th.  Maybe we started a Revolution.  Obviously.


----------



## erockg

BooleanBones said:


> I gave in and sent them back. They wanted me to send in my "faulty" set for inspection. They noted that they could not replicate the issue on their side. I give them a C- for effort trying.  I sent them back and they can take as much as they need to inspect their faulty set and not my faulty set.


Argh, bummer.  I'm having EQ remorse.  Tells you how much I truly loved them.


----------



## clerkpalmer (Sep 8, 2021)

BooleanBones said:


> Yep, same feeling I got. We may look into this further when folks get real upset about it. I gave it some thought and will let them work out that bug and possibly boost the volume. It's a shame because they have such good SQ and the build is wonderful.


I received a very similar "F U" response from Master Dynamic a few times.  First time when I complained that they left AAC off the MW07 Plus which was a colossal oversight.  And second when I told them the MW08 sound like a muddy mess.  My choice of words probably didn't help but I got the impression they didn't really care.  I even pointed them to this thread.


----------



## clerkpalmer

erockg said:


> Oddly enough, they pulled them from Amazon today and then they (black) is out of stock on B&Os site.  Amazon wasn't shipping until the 28th.  Maybe we started a Revolution.  Obviously.


Returns have to hit the pocketbook.  When they start stacking up, they will take notice.  Shipping costs back and forth, and basically can't resell them used.  Gotta just be brutal.  I was able to find a set of the XM4 tips that I may have secretly kept from the return box - they are helping me with the fit/stability problem.  Tonight will be the test on the rower.  I've had a few gremlins, they don't connect easily across multiple devices, don't connect to the app, but nothing warranting a return if the fit can be fixed.  I do think the volume is unusually low and I'm not someone who listens loud.


----------



## Tenlow

clerkpalmer said:


> Returns have to hit the pocketbook.  When they start stacking up, they will take notice.  Shipping costs back and forth, and basically can't resell them used.  Gotta just be brutal.  I was able to find a set of the XM4 tips that I may have secretly kept from the return box - they are helping me with the fit/stability problem.  Tonight will be the test on the rower.  I've had a few gremlins, they don't connect easily across multiple devices, don't connect to the app, but nothing warranting a return if the fit can be fixed.  I do think the volume is unusually low and I'm not someone who listens loud.


Agree on the low volume. Never a fan of this. Didn't like it on the PI7 and don't like it on the EQs either. Quite a shame as they otherwise sound really nice. 

For me they need to raise the max volume, implement track skipping on the buds, add voice prompts (or at least clearly audible sounds), make volume up/down steps way more precise and maybe also add access to a voice assistant. 

Quite a few drawbacks for 400€...


----------



## BooleanBones

erockg said:


> Argh, bummer.  I'm having EQ remorse.  Tells you how much I truly loved them.


I am sure I will too, but @Tommy C's comment the other day made me think. I was never really satisfied with the E8 v1 but kept ahold of them anyway. I think it is better to let them take care of my particular concerns and then repurchase them. Crossing my fingers.


----------



## erockg

BooleanBones said:


> I am sure I will too, but @Tommy C's comment the other day made me think. I was never really satisfied with the E8 v1 but kept ahold of them anyway. I think it is better to let them take care of my particular concerns and then repurchase them. Crossing my fingers.


You're right.  Hopefully, it was just an initial run issue.  I've had every gen.  I may pick up the E8 Sport again if I can score a deal.  They rock.  Let them go because I thought the EQ would be the ones...


----------



## erockg

clerkpalmer said:


> Returns have to hit the pocketbook.  When they start stacking up, they will take notice.  Shipping costs back and forth, and basically can't resell them used.  Gotta just be brutal.  I was able to find a set of the XM4 tips that I may have secretly kept from the return box - they are helping me with the fit/stability problem.  Tonight will be the test on the rower.  I've had a few gremlins, they don't connect easily across multiple devices, don't connect to the app, but nothing warranting a return if the fit can be fixed.  I do think the volume is unusually low and I'm not someone who listens loud.


I have many tips I've "secretly" kept.  Yeah, B&O do not have a refurbished site or used.  Probably all sitting in a room collecting dust.  Sad.


----------



## clerkpalmer

erockg said:


> I have many tips I've "secretly" kept.  Yeah, B&O do not have a refurbished site or used.  Probably all sitting in a room collecting dust.  Sad.


This is where Amazon warehouse can be your friend.  But a company also needs to keep a premium reputation so dumping refurbs into the market isn't always a good look.


----------



## Ceeluh7

Tommy C said:


> I have found this on YouTube:
> I would say pretty accurate assessment.
> 
> So far after a day I find the treble to have nice sparkle and is not artificial or piercing.
> ...



I owned these (L2P+) for a total of 1 day... The treble was just.... Off. Very thin, artificial. I even tried burning them in for about 6 hrs and that did not help, changed tips... Didn't help even a bit, eq'd them...treble still is thin and tizzy.


----------



## erockg

clerkpalmer said:


> This is where Amazon warehouse can be your friend.  But a company also needs to keep a premium reputation so dumping refurbs into the market isn't always a good look.


Absolutely.  Been there.  It's usually hit or miss.  But the hits can be very cost effective.  I've received some burns via Amazon Warehouse.  Fortunately, Amazon has a good return policy.  The EQs will make it there whenever Amazon starts to sell them.


----------



## Darkestred

Tommy C said:


> I have found this on YouTube:
> I would say pretty accurate assessment.
> 
> So far after a day I find the treble to have nice sparkle and is not artificial or piercing.
> ...



Thanks for this.  Seems like they made these more upper mid/treble oriented.  I think i am good with the OG!


----------



## scubaphish

BooleanBones said:


> I gave in and sent them back. They wanted me to send in my "faulty" set for inspection. They noted that they could not replicate the issue on their side. I give them a C- for effort trying.  I sent them back and they can take as much as they need to inspect their faulty set and not my faulty set.


And on the other end of the customer service spectrum, I emailed Devialet about the odd auto pause behavior and after a couple of troubleshooting emails they offered to RMA them.


----------



## BooleanBones

scubaphish said:


> And on the other end of the customer service spectrum, I emailed Devialet about the odd auto pause behavior and after a couple of troubleshooting emails they offered to RMA them.


Nice, grats! Don't get me wrong, B&O are very responsive, have an excellent shipping/RMA process, just seem a bit disinterested in looking into a valid issue multiple folks have reported. Not sure at what point they say, "we had better look into this". We gave them specific tracks and recreation steps, but not real sure they pursued any of that. Oh well.


----------



## Tommy C (Sep 8, 2021)

Ceeluh7 said:


> I owned these (L2P+) for a total of 1 day... The treble was just.... Off. Very thin, artificial. I even tried burning them in for about 6 hrs and that did not help, changed tips... Didn't help even a bit, eq'd them...treble still is thin and tizzy.



Very interesting. Are you an iPhone or Android user? I’m able to eq the treble to my liking but I’m also very treble sensitive normally.


----------



## clerkpalmer

scubaphish said:


> And on the other end of the customer service spectrum, I emailed Devialet about the odd auto pause behavior and after a couple of troubleshooting emails they offered to RMA them.


I've found their support to be top notch.


----------



## BooleanBones

Tenlow said:


> Agree on the low volume. Never a fan of this. Didn't like it on the PI7 and don't like it on the EQs either. Quite a shame as they otherwise sound really nice.
> 
> For me they need to raise the max volume, implement track skipping on the buds, add voice prompts (or at least clearly audible sounds), make volume up/down steps way more precise and maybe also add access to a voice assistant.
> 
> Quite a few drawbacks for 400€...


Kind of like buying a Ferrari that can’t surpass 120 kmh.


----------



## BooleanBones

The beginning of this song on Apple Spatial just blew my mind. I actually thought my earbuds disconnected and it was coming out of the phone speaker


----------



## erockg

clerkpalmer said:


> I've found their support to be top notch.


The only issue I had with them is when I bought my Devialet from their site and they took forever to ship, I cancelled the order because Crutchfield had them ready to ship.  Devialet had me waiting a month for my refund, despite several promises that it would arrive.  Outside of that, they're very receptive ;P


----------



## clerkpalmer

HaliHarry said:


> This guy said that he can active Dolby Atmos in Apple Music with his EQ. Can anyone confirm that ??



You can enable it but it doesn't do anything. There is a warning that not all headsets are compatible. So I don't think there's anything to see here.


----------



## BooleanBones

clerkpalmer said:


> You can enable it but it doesn't do anything. There is a warning that not all headsets are compatible. So I don't think there's anything to see here.


I didn't make it past the first 30 seconds of this. Surprised he wasn't wearing a B&O jumpsuit  Sorry Harry, couldn't resist.


----------



## clerkpalmer

BooleanBones said:


> The beginning of this song on Apple Spatial just blew my mind. I actually thought my earbuds disconnected and it was coming out of the phone speaker


What headphones?


BooleanBones said:


> I didn't make it past the first 30 seconds of this. Surprised he wasn't wearing a B&O jumpsuit  Sorry Harry, couldn't resist.


Yeah some pretty serious ball washing going on there.


----------



## clerkpalmer

This one is killer on the EQs *warning not metal*


----------



## BooleanBones

clerkpalmer said:


> What headphones?
> 
> Yeah some pretty serious ball washing going on there.


Same effect using both my APP and Klipsch T5s. Initially was the Klipsch, but then the same with APP.


----------



## clerkpalmer

BooleanBones said:


> Same effect using both my APP and Klipsch T5s. Initially was the Klipsch, but then the same with


Huh. I thought spacial only worked on Apple products.


----------



## BooleanBones

clerkpalmer said:


> This one is killer on the EQs *warning not metal*


 The EQs are probably on their way through Kansas by now. Will check it on my cans though


----------



## BooleanBones

clerkpalmer said:


> Huh. I thought spacial only worked on Apple products.


yeah, I think so too, but not real sure. Was just listening to the album on Apple Music with the T5s. Will listen to that track local and see if still there and let you know. @erockg uses and listens to Apple Music more than me I think, he probably knows for sure.


----------



## clerkpalmer

BooleanBones said:


> yeah, I think so too, but not real sure. Was just listening to the album on Apple Music with the T5s. Will listen to that track local and see if still there and let you know. @erockg uses and listens to Apple Music more than me I think, he probably knows for sure.


I kinda poo pood the Spatial but it's pretty nice on the APP.  If Apple could make a decent set of cans I'd probably buy them just for that. APM do not qualify.


----------



## erockg

BooleanBones said:


> yeah, I think so too, but not real sure. Was just listening to the album on Apple Music with the T5s. Will listen to that track local and see if still there and let you know. @erockg uses and listens to Apple Music more than me I think, he probably knows for sure.


Pretty sure Spatial Audio is for Apple products only, but Dolby Atmos does work with other earbuds.  I've listened to this new remixed PJ Ten album.  I'm thinking you're hearing the Atmos, which can be good and bad on some albums.  I remember trying an old The Who album in Atmos and it just wasn't the same.


----------



## erockg

BooleanBones said:


> The EQs are probably on their way through Kansas by now. Will check it on my cans though


Break out the tissues.


----------



## scubaphish

clerkpalmer said:


> Huh. I thought spacial only worked on Apple products.


It can work on non-Apple products. At least it seems that way with the latest public beta of iOS 15.
they’ve had the toggle but not sure it ever did anything. I am now noticing a difference when turning on and off.

not head tracking feature, just the atmos sound


----------



## clerkpalmer

scubaphish said:


> It can work on non-Apple products. At least it seems that way with the latest public beta of iOS 15.
> they’ve had the toggle but not sure it ever did anything. I am now noticing a difference when turning on and off.
> 
> not head tracking feature, just the atmos sound


Is Spatial and atmos the same or different? I thought they were different.


----------



## erockg (Sep 8, 2021)

clerkpalmer said:


> Is Spatial and atmos the same or different? I thought they were different.


Different.  https://www.gearpatrol.com/tech/a36932143/apple-spatial-audio-vs-dolby-atmos-whats-the-difference/

Spatial Audio is really cool, but it's a proprietary Apple thing.


----------



## scubaphish

erockg said:


> Different.  https://www.gearpatrol.com/tech/a36932143/apple-spatial-audio-vs-dolby-atmos-whats-the-difference/
> 
> Spatial Audio is really cool, but it's a proprietary Apple thing.


Thanks, I conflated them under same names


----------



## scubaphish (Sep 8, 2021)

scubaphish said:


> Thanks, I conflated them under same names


Honestly, Apple conflates them on the Made for Spatial Audio page

that said, Dolby atmos audio is supported for non Apple devices


----------



## erockg

scubaphish said:


> Honestly, Apple conflates them on the Made for Spatial Audio page
> 
> that said, Dolby atmos audio is supported for non Apple devices


Correct.  That's what I was alluding to with @BooleanBones above .  SA is awesome.  I've used it often and it'll track with your head when you turn while watching a movie or show that supports it.  Virtual surround sound.  Dolby Atmos won't do that.  Yet.  Of course, I prefer watching an Atmos film with my Sonos setup.  That said, it's pretty damn amazing where this stuff is going.


----------



## Tenlow

Pretty sure my (2 day old) EQs will also go back unfortunately as good as they sound. I might rebuy them if they fix the "issues" that bug me (personally) like mainly that they could be a bit louder and that track skipping is not available as of now. 

In case someone here is interested, let me quickly know. I would also sell them to someone here for a reduced price before they go back (I know this is not for selling here but I wanted to make the offer)


----------



## HaliHarry

It seems there are so many problems with the top 1 sound quality tws B&O EQ


----------



## Juturna

The brain burn-in effect is so damn real, these SoundPeats H1 that were originally so damn bassy that it was difficult to bear no longer sounds bloated or too heavy to me after a week or more of constant use. I mean it still is bassy compared to some other buds but I don't think it sounds at all as bloated and slow as I originally thought. It's still not the fastest or most textured/nuanced bass response but it's not overbearing to my ears as it was in the beginning, it's remarkable how different I perceive them compared to what I did from the start.

Still miss my Sennheiser MTW2's though, I hope they come back from the repairs soon.

Also still thinking about the next earbuds I'm getting and it's still definitely a list that consists of:

Devialet Gemini
Klipsch T5 II ANC
B&O EQ (despite the issues, or in hope of a fix to the issues)
Nuratrue

I love and hate that earbuds have become a hobby for me, I really do.  It's always the hunt for something new and better and thinking that THIS is the earbud that might make me enjoy the music more, and being like "oh this track sounds really good... but damn the I can tell that the snare drum isn't meant to sound exactly like that, I probably need to find earbuds with a different sound signature to really make this sound the best way possible" etc.
At least it's cheaper than my previous tech hobby, trying out new smartphones. Had 22 smartphones in 2018 I think, that was downright bananas.


----------



## Juturna

erockg said:


> Received my Nuratrue Buds again.  Second time purchasing after I read they fixed the volume issues.  WOW.  They sure did.  Raised the volume and added a gain setting as well.  Tried out the mic for calls and it seems to work great.  No one has complained  If you're looking for something reasonably priced with stellar sound, you should try these out.  10mm drivers in each bud.  They go for $199 and I found a 10% off coupon online.  Not a bad deal.  Few features I do miss, like wireless charging, but I would say the soundstage is excellent, the sound punches after you create your personalized EQ setting.  Tap gestures are customizable.  Auto pause when you take either bud out.  They're lightweight, a bit big (round) on the outside and for me, fit great with the ePro large tips.  I'll be spending the day with them.  Will report back if I have any issues.


I tried the NuraTrue in store like two weeks ago and they sounded really damn good... and I tried them again last week and they sounded pretty bad, but when I set up my profile this time it was pretty noisy in the store with music blaring from a set of speakers and more people walking around than the first time, do you think that could be the reason why they ended up sounding like crap in comparison to the first time? 

I know that they say that you should sit still and in a quiet room when they measure your ear/hearing but i'm not sure how big of a difference that would make.


----------



## profusion

Can someone recommend me >50$ tws for running? Any good chi-fi?


----------



## BooleanBones

HaliHarry said:


> It seems there are so many problems with the top 1 sound quality tws B&O EQ


I don’t think they have any more issues than any new TWS model. For the price though, I probably have my bar set a bit higher.


----------



## MichaelScarn

Could use some advice. As I mentioned earlier, my Status Between Pro's sound amazing, except for the occasional hiss or sharp S in voice recordings or podcasts. I did some googling, and it turns out to be this phenomenon called sibilance. Pretty sure you guys all know what this is, but for me it was the first time reading about it.
I assume it could be fixed by lowering some frequencies on the EQ, but here's the thing: the Status BP's don't come with an app or eq. 

So that made me think about going for some second hand Sony wf-1000xm3 (I can get a pair for around 70 euro's I think). Any thoughts? Stay with the Status? Go for the Sony's or do something else? 

Thanks


----------



## Tommy C (Sep 9, 2021)

profusion said:


> Can someone recommend me >50$ tws for running? Any good chi-fi?


Fiil T1XS. They sound excellent and they are often going on 30%-45% off on Amazon. The fit for me is amazing, they are small and snug and have Ambient mode and app with eq. They just sound good regardless of price. The sound signature is relatively balanced with elevated bass which isn’t boomy and isn’t colored or overly dynamic.
I use them at home for listening, phone calls and when out and about more than my newly purchased CA MT and L2P+.


----------



## BigZ12 (Sep 9, 2021)

Nerding today... 

Playing around with:
- HTPC - Windows 10
- Apple Music Hi-res lossless via Bluestacks Android emulator
- APO / Peace EQ with Crinacle/Harman in-ear "Bass boost" preset imported
- Optical output from mobo to Fiio BTA-30 BT transmitter
- LDAC codec from the Fiio to WF-1000XM4

Never heard the XM4s sound better, that's for sure 

Edit: Comply TW-200-C medium tips used. Love them for both sound and comfort.
Edit2: The Crinacle preset is of course made for the XM4s. Sony WF-1000XM4 (Bass Boost preset)
​


----------



## clerkpalmer

BigZ12 said:


> Nerding today...
> 
> Playing around with:
> - HTPC - Windows 10
> ...


That's a lotta steps.


----------



## BigZ12 (Sep 9, 2021)

clerkpalmer said:


> That's a lotta steps.


But fun  

Edit:  Easy and quick to use after it's set up, and sounds very good.


----------



## profusion

Tommy C said:


> Fiil T1XS. They sound excellent and they are often go on 30%-45% off on Amazon. The fit for me is amazing, they are small and snug and have Ambient mode and app with eq. They just sound good regardless of price. The sound signature is relatively balanced with elevated bass which isn’t boomy and isn’t colored or overly dynamic.
> I use them at home for listening, phone calls and when out and about more than my newly purchased CA MT and L2P+.


how are the mic?


----------



## HaliHarry

BooleanBones said:


> I don’t think they have any more issues than any new TWS model. For the price though, I probably have my bar set a bit higher.


1 pairs EQ is coming. Hope that volume is louder than PI7 because it seems volume of PI7 quite isn't enough for me. And i can sure that EQ have less issues than my old PI7 (such as small volume, 2 pieces cant play together when far more than 20cm, never reconnect when i back from outside of range. . . Etc)


----------



## Tommy C

profusion said:


> how are the mic?


So far used them only indoors and people say they hear me perfectly.


----------



## jsmiller58

MichaelScarn said:


> Could use some advice. As I mentioned earlier, my Status Between Pro's sound amazing, except for the occasional hiss or sharp S in voice recordings or podcasts. I did some googling, and it turns out to be this phenomenon called sibilance. Pretty sure you guys all know what this is, but for me it was the first time reading about it.
> I assume it could be fixed by lowering some frequencies on the EQ, but here's the thing: the Status BP's don't come with an app or eq.
> 
> So that made me think about going for some second hand Sony wf-1000xm3 (I can get a pair for around 70 euro's I think). Any thoughts? Stay with the Status? Go for the Sony's or do something else?
> ...


If you are on Android, you could try using the Wavelet app for EQ.


----------



## BooleanBones (Sep 9, 2021)

HaliHarry said:


> 1 pairs EQ is coming. Hope that volume is louder than PI7 because it seems volume of PI7 quite isn't enough for me. And i can sure that EQ have less issues than my old PI7 (such as small volume, 2 pieces cant play together when far more than 20cm, never reconnect when i back from outside of range. . . Etc)


From memory, I don’t think the volume is greater than the Pi7s and probably are a bit lower although not by a lot. Keep us posted


----------



## erockg

Juturna said:


> I tried the NuraTrue in store like two weeks ago and they sounded really damn good... and I tried them again last week and they sounded pretty bad, but when I set up my profile this time it was pretty noisy in the store with music blaring from a set of speakers and more people walking around than the first time, do you think that could be the reason why they ended up sounding like crap in comparison to the first time?
> 
> I know that they say that you should sit still and in a quiet room when they measure your ear/hearing but i'm not sure how big of a difference that would make.


Yes, you have to set them up in a quiet room. I’ve had them twice. Once before they fixed the volume issue and now after the updated them to address those issues. Both times the sound was phenomenal. With a good seal, the ANC works well and the soundstage is pretty incredible. I used them all day yesterday and I am very happy with him. My one complaint is I wish they did have wireless charging. Other than that they are a great value for what they cost.  Zero issues so far.


----------



## erockg

BooleanBones said:


> I don’t think they have any more issues than any new TWS model. For the price though, I probably have my bar set a bit higher.


I agree. The EQs do not have very many issues. Just the main issue of the popping sound we both had.  Seriously considering picking up the sand color to see if they have the same popping sound. Someone stop me!


----------



## BooleanBones

erockg said:


> I agree. The EQs do not have very many issues. Just the main issue of the popping sound we both had.  Seriously considering picking up the sand color to see if they have the same popping sound. Someone stop me!


 You're reaching now. Just know you are not the only one facing withdrawls.


----------



## erockg

BooleanBones said:


> You're reaching now. Just know you are not the only one facing withdrawls.


You’re right, what am I thinking? Sand color? Black is back in stock.


----------



## Tommy C

erockg said:


> You’re right, what am I thinking? Sand color? Black is back in stock.



I think it's gotta be a software issue since a few of you have reported the same issue. 
I would wait - just trying to convince you to step off the ledge lol


----------



## ZiGFi (Sep 9, 2021)

Big dilemma. I have the B&O Beoplay EQ on my desk right now (bonus the Beoplay wireless charger bundled for the same price - 400 EUR) but not sure if I should keep them or not. If I unbox them, I can't return them anymore (store policy).

I've tried them on the store but the pads were weared out and they didn't sit in my ear very well. Liked the sound but found the volume to be kind of low on max.
I appreciate a good sounding headphone but I can't justify the 400EUR price tag just for the sound quality because they aren't there yet compared to wired headphones, for convenience...hmm, maybe?
I was considering to go for something cheaper like Airpods Pro and use them in addition to my HD660s for when I go out or when I sit on the couch to be free of wires.
Confused


----------



## BooleanBones

ZiGFi said:


> Big dilemma. I have the B&O Beoplay EQ on my desk right now (bonus the Beoplay wireless charger bundled for the same price - 400 EUR) but not sure if I should keep them or not. If I unbox them, I can't return them anymore (store policy).
> 
> I've tried them on the store but the pads were weared and they didn't sit in my ear very well. Liked the sound but found the volume to be kind of low on max.
> I appreciate a good sounding headphone but I can't justify the 400EUR price tag just for the sound quality, for convenience...hmm, maybe?
> ...


Tough call. I need the volume personally as my ears have been tortured in my younger days. I just couldn't justify running them at max 90% of the time. My larger hang up was a subtle pop/clip in the earbud on various tracks. I definitely will be repurchasing these though, just going to wait it out a bit until they fix that (and hopefully more volume). The SQ on these is wonderful and beats any TWS I have heard especially for the music I generally listen to. They really shine on vocal/acoustical/instrumental but handled all music types I played on them very well. Good luck


----------



## erockg

BooleanBones said:


> Tough call. I need the volume personally as my ears have been tortured in my younger days. I just couldn't justify running them at max 90% of the time. My larger hang up was a subtle pop/clip in the earbud on various tracks. I definitely will be repurchasing these though, just going to wait it out a bit until they fix that (and hopefully more volume). The SQ on these is wonderful and beats any TWS I have heard especially for the music I generally listen to. They really shine on vocal/acoustical/instrumental but handled all music types I played on them very well. Good luck


Try those Nuratrue buds.  Definitely worth testing out.  I used them all day listening to the new Maiden album and then watched a movie with them last night while the family was asleep.  I have to say, they're quite good.  Loud.  Clear.  Nothing compared to the build quality of the B&O by far, but for $199, the value is there.  There's a 10% off coupon somewhere that I used.  Trying to find it again.


----------



## Tommy C

So after testing all my TWS that I currently have on deck I made the _fatal mistake _of pulling my old 4 balance armature IEMs from 8-9 years ago from the drawer. 
Needless to say they sound amazing compared to what I currently have on deck (CA MT, L2P+, Fiil T1XS, Fiil CC2 and Jabra Elite Sport).  

Will be willing to spend top dollars on a set of TWS if they sound close to that. 
I remember 3 years ago before getting my Jabra I demoed the Bose, Sony and some others flagship TWS at the local store and they did sound good back then but I was mainly blinded by the convenience of TWS, now I'm looking for sq lol

What is also a bit of a bummer is that my old Jabra still able to compete with the L2P+ and the CA MT despite being older gen. Texture, eq and ss are all different but can't say any of the TWS that I have available is significantly better if anything. 

This makes me think of possibly getting an adapter to hook up to some IEMs that I have sitting in the drawer.


----------



## erockg

Tommy C said:


> So after testing all my TWS that I currently have on deck I made the _fatal mistake _of pulling my old 4 balance armature IEMs from 8-9 years ago from the drawer.
> Needless to say they sound amazing compared to what I currently have on deck (CA MT, L2P+, Fiil T1XS, Fiil CC2 and Jabra Elite Sport).
> 
> Will be willing to spend top dollars on a set of TWS if they sound close to that.
> ...


Those old Jabra buds were great.  Looking forward to seeing what they did with the new 7 Pros that I think are out on 10/1.


----------



## jsmiller58

Tommy C said:


> So after testing all my TWS that I currently have on deck I made the _fatal mistake _of pulling my old 4 balance armature IEMs from 8-9 years ago from the drawer.
> Needless to say they sound amazing compared to what I currently have on deck (CA MT, L2P+, Fiil T1XS, Fiil CC2 and Jabra Elite Sport).
> 
> Will be willing to spend top dollars on a set of TWS if they sound close to that.
> ...


Are those 8-9 year old 4 BA earphones the Shure SE846?  If they are, yeah, they’ll be hard to beat.  Oldies, but definitely goodies…


----------



## Tommy C (Sep 9, 2021)

jsmiller58 said:


> Are those 8-9 year old 4 BA earphones the Shure SE846?  If they are, yeah, they’ll be hard to beat.  Oldies, but definitely goodies…


Actually the Ultimate Ears UE900.
maybe I should hunt for the SE846 lol


----------



## HaliHarry

BooleanBones said:


> Tough call. I need the volume personally as my ears have been tortured in my younger days. I just couldn't justify running them at max 90% of the time. My larger hang up was a subtle pop/clip in the earbud on various tracks. I definitely will be repurchasing these though, just going to wait it out a bit until they fix that (and hopefully more volume). The SQ on these is wonderful and beats any TWS I have heard especially for the music I generally listen to. They really shine on vocal/acoustical/instrumental but handled all music types I played on them very well. Good luck


Pop/clip issue just exist when you turn on ANC or in all mode ??


----------



## BooleanBones

HaliHarry said:


> Pop/clip issue just exist when you turn on ANC or in all mode ??


Seemed like only with ANC and transparency modes enabled. I did not hear it in passive mode. Similar to what you described with your PI7s


----------



## HaliHarry

Hope that they can fix all of it in the next firmware update. Anyone here is fan of B&O earbuds ??? Do they have tradition to usually update earbuds firmware to fix  issues ?


----------



## erockg

HaliHarry said:


> Hope that they can fix all of it in the next firmware update. Anyone here is fan of B&O earbuds ??? Do they have tradition to usually update earbuds firmware to fix  issues ?


I've had all their true wireless earbuds.  Yes, they do traditionally issue firmware updates.  No one knows if the popping we heard is a software or hardware issue.  One theory is that the ANC/Transparency mics are causing the issue.  Could also be a first pressing issue.  Who knows.  Fingers crossed they either fix the issue we heard or I purchase another pair and the issue isn't present.


----------



## darveniza

erockg said:


> Oddly enough, they pulled them from Amazon today and then they (black) is out of stock on B&Os site.  Amazon wasn't shipping until the 28th.  Maybe we started a Revolution.  Obviously.


Just checked they are available, Amazon. Co


HaliHarry said:


> It seems there are so many problems with the top 1 sound quality tws B&O EQ


Not sure , we have 2 here on my end and we are not exhibiting any issue. Even test the whole high EQ setting and specific song but nothing.


----------



## erockg

darveniza said:


> Just checked they are available, Amazon. Co
> 
> Not sure , we have 2 here on my end and we are not exhibiting any issue. Even test the whole high EQ setting and specific song but nothing.


Nothing here on Amazon by me.  Looking now.  Was in stock this morning for delivery by 9/28.  Amazon must not have stock yet from B&O.

You don't hear a pop on the below tracks with the ANC on?

4:37 of this track. Left bud.  





Multiple times in the first 20 seconds of this track. Left bud only:





Right on the 54 second mark.  Again, Left bud only.


----------



## Luke Skywalker

Tommy C said:


> So after testing all my TWS that I currently have on deck I made the _fatal mistake _of pulling my old 4 balance armature IEMs from 8-9 years ago from the drawer.
> Needless to say they sound amazing compared to what I currently have on deck (CA MT, L2P+, Fiil T1XS, Fiil CC2 and Jabra Elite Sport).
> 
> Will be willing to spend top dollars on a set of TWS if they sound close to that.
> ...


I recently connected my Jh Lola’s to Fiio UTSW3 and not surprisingly, they destroy my TWS collection.  I’ve heard the iBasso is awesome. only bad part about the Fiio is my IEMs are too big so I have To put the adapters in separately. But the iBasso doesn’t have volume adjustment to the best of my knowledge which I really wanted


----------



## xSDMx

Tommy C said:


> So after testing all my TWS that I currently have on deck I made the _fatal mistake _of pulling my old 4 balance armature IEMs from 8-9 years ago from the drawer.
> Needless to say they sound amazing compared to what I currently have on deck (CA MT, L2P+, Fiil T1XS, Fiil CC2 and Jabra Elite Sport).
> 
> Will be willing to spend top dollars on a set of TWS if they sound close to that.
> ...


Try the Soundpeats H1 when you have a chance. I am really liking the sound signature and would be interested in others thoughts. I also own the SE846 and find myself gravitating towards the H1 out of convenience and "good enough" SQ.


----------



## erockg

erockg said:


> Try those Nuratrue buds.  Definitely worth testing out.  I used them all day listening to the new Maiden album and then watched a movie with them last night while the family was asleep.  I have to say, they're quite good.  Loud.  Clear.  Nothing compared to the build quality of the B&O by far, but for $199, the value is there.  There's a 10% off coupon somewhere that I used.  Trying to find it again.


Been using these on Zoom calls all day, moving back and forth from my phone to my desktop.  They have what Nura is calling "Bluetooth Quickswitch."  I'm impressed.  Works great.  Pair to the devices once and you can just tap and switch all day with no issues.


----------



## msooffutt

I’m thinking about trying out the new B&O eqs.  Does B&O have a good return policy if I decided they weren’t for me?


----------



## BooleanBones

msooffutt said:


> I’m thinking about trying out the new B&O eqs.  Does B&O have a good return policy if I decided they weren’t for me?


Are you in the US? If so, yes. Not sure about other regions, but it’s 30 days here


----------



## msooffutt

BooleanBones said:


> Are you in the US? If so, yes. Not sure about other regions, but it’s 30 days here


Thanks for answering.  Yes, I’m in the US.  Do they charge a restocking fee?


----------



## BooleanBones

msooffutt said:


> Thanks for answering.  Yes, I’m in the US.  Do they charge a restocking fee?


Nope, no questions asked. They give you a label and you pack it back up and drop it at UPS (or have UPS pick it up)


----------



## msooffutt

BooleanBones said:


> Nope, no questions asked. They give you a label and you pack it back up and drop it at UPS (or have UPS pick it up)


Oh good, I think I might give them a try.  Thanks


----------



## scubaphish

In case anyone is interested, Woot in the US has the Klipsch T5 II for $99 brand new. I’ve heard great things about these when researching for the new ANC version. Anyhoo…

https://electronics.woot.com/offers...buds-silver-2?utm_medium=share&utm_source=app


----------



## erockg

scubaphish said:


> In case anyone is interested, Woot in the US has the Klipsch T5 II for $99 brand new. I’ve heard great things about these when researching for the new ANC version. Anyhoo…
> 
> https://electronics.woot.com/offers...buds-silver-2?utm_medium=share&utm_source=app


Yeah, they've been up there a while on Woot!  I think this is a better deal for an open box on the ANC version IMO:  https://www.ebay.com/itm/144157595718  WWS is legit and great.  If I didn't have my McLaren version, I would totally grab these!


----------



## nekonhime

erockg said:


> Yeah, they've been up there a while on Woot!  I think this is a better deal for an open box on the ANC version IMO:  https://www.ebay.com/itm/144157595718  WWS is legit and great.  If I didn't have my McLaren version, I would totally grab these!


Does they sound good? I used to buy their wired earbuds but they broke in a week.


----------



## erockg

nekonhime said:


> Does they sound good? I used to buy their wired earbuds but they broke in a week.


I love mine and other people on this forum do too. The ANC version is better than the last few versions in my opinion. They have worked out a lot of the bugs.  One complaint is that they have a strange fit, which they do. And they use a proprietary tip.  I've never had a problem and they work very well for me.


----------



## nekonhime

erockg said:


> I love mine and other people on this forum do too. The ANC version is better than the last few versions in my opinion. They have worked out a lot of the bugs.  One complaint is that they have a strange fit, which they do. And they use a proprietary tip.  I've never had a problem and they work very well for me.


How they compared to 1000xm4, mw08, nura, and status between pro in term of sound, phone call and function?


----------



## theGatMan

Shure just dropped a 2nd generation TW2 system to replace last year’s TW1, compatible with 848, 535, etc.


----------



## erockg

nekonhime said:


> How they compared to 1000xm4, mw08, nura, and status between pro in term of sound, phone call and function?


I returned or sold all of those except for my Klipsch, Nuratrue, Devialet and APP.  My favorites are still the Devialet.


----------



## erockg

theGatMan said:


> Shure just dropped a 2nd generation TW2 system to replace last year’s TW1, compatible with 848, 535, etc.


I will have them tomorrow. I'll post impressions then.


----------



## gnychis

erockg said:


> I will have them tomorrow. I'll post impressions then.


Please let me know as well. I have the UTWS3 and am curious how these will compare. I didn't get Gen 1 because of the whole mono call situation. But now with stereo call I might consider them.


----------



## scubaphish

erockg said:


> Yeah, they've been up there a while on Woot!  I think this is a better deal for an open box on the ANC version IMO:  https://www.ebay.com/itm/144157595718  WWS is legit and great.  If I didn't have my McLaren version, I would totally grab these!


I’m a fan of them, and even bought those open box before I found the Gemini, but this goes into the pile for my wife to try to replace her “uncomfortable” AAP. So I think fhe $100 version without ANC is perfect (she wouldn’t want to spend that much for as much as she’ll use them). But we’ll see. 

got her MT, Fiil X1 and now these Klipsch. One is bound to fit her requirements comfortably


----------



## nekonhime

erockg said:


> I returned or sold all of those except for my Klipsch, Nuratrue, Devialet and APP.  My favorites are still the Devialet.


Interesting, If I can make a deal for the Klipsch then I can compare them to 1000xm4, and mw08. Thanks for your opinion.


----------



## scubaphish

nekonhime said:


> Interesting, If I can make a deal for the Klipsch then I can compare them to 1000xm4, and mw08. Thanks for your opinion.


If you’re in the US, the open box World Wide Stereo is selling on eBay is a great deal at 199… the ones @erockg shared a few comments back


----------



## nekonhime

scubaphish said:


> If you’re in the US, the open box World Wide Stereo is selling on eBay is a great deal at 199… the ones @erockg shared a few comments back


I am trying to find a better deal for these as I am broke after purchased 1000xm4 and mw08 haha.


----------



## erockg

scubaphish said:


> I’m a fan of them, and even bought those open box before I found the Gemini, but this goes into the pile for my wife to try to replace her “uncomfortable” AAP. So I think fhe $100 version without ANC is perfect (she wouldn’t want to spend that much for as much as she’ll use them). But we’ll see.
> 
> got her MT, Fiil X1 and now these Klipsch. One is bound to fit her requirements comfortably


Mine would complain of how far they go into her ears.  I got her the APP last week HAHA!  Sure, for a hundred bucks you can't go wrong.  Just make her happy.  Don't eff this up.


----------



## scubaphish (Sep 9, 2021)

erockg said:


> Mine would complain of how far they go into her ears.  I got her the APP last week HAHA!  Sure, for a hundred bucks you can't go wrong.  Just make her happy.  Don't eff this up.


Lol…shaiza, I was thinking the same re: Klipsch going too far into her ears. Oh well. She knows I’m trying…but yeah, don’t mess it up


----------



## erockg

nekonhime said:


> I am trying to find a better deal for these as I am broke after purchased 1000xm4 and mw08 haha.


I had both of those and do prefer the Klipsch over those two.  Others here may disagree though.


----------



## erockg

scubaphish said:


> If you’re in the US, the open box World Wide Stereo is selling on eBay is a great deal at 199… the ones @erockg shared a few comments back


They knocked them down to $174.99 now.  Can you believe it?  Ugh.


----------



## BooleanBones

erockg said:


> Yeah, they've been up there a while on Woot!  I think this is a better deal for an open box on the ANC version IMO:  https://www.ebay.com/itm/144157595718  WWS is legit and great.  If I didn't have my McLaren version, I would totally grab these!


Now that is a storefront I did not need to see. Trying to wipe my memory as we speak.


----------



## erockg

gnychis said:


> Please let me know as well. I have the UTWS3 and am curious how these will compare. I didn't get Gen 1 because of the whole mono call situation. But now with stereo call I might consider them.


I will.  Happy they implemented all the things missing from Gen 1.  Fingers crossed they rock!


----------



## nekonhime

erockg said:


> I had both of those and do prefer the Klipsch over those two.  Others here may disagree though.


My mw08 will arrive today so I kinda excited to try them later. As for the T5 II, I may have to wait for a little bit until I can find a great deal for them or I can just sale both xm4 and mw08 then I can buy the T5 II


----------



## erockg

BooleanBones said:


> Now that is a storefront I did not need to see. Trying to wipe my memory as we speak.


Sorry.  I think @scubaphish mentioned the eBay deal a while back.  I didn't want to mind-eff you.


----------



## BooleanBones

erockg said:


> Mine would complain of how far they go into her ears.  I got her the APP last week HAHA!  Sure, for a hundred bucks you can't go wrong.  Just make her happy.  Don't eff this up.


My complaint as well. If you find their tips uncomfortable, you cannot just pop un an extra set you have sitting around. The proprietary tips kind of tie your hands. Full of features in the app though.


----------



## nekonhime

erockg said:


> They knocked them down to $174.99 now.  Can you believe it?  Ugh.


Omg, my wallet is crying right now.


----------



## scubaphish

erockg said:


> Sorry.  I think @scubaphish mentioned the eBay deal a while back.  I didn't want to mind-eff you.


It’s where I found my PI5 and PI7s that started it all


----------



## erockg

BooleanBones said:


> My complaint as well. If you find their tips uncomfortable, you cannot just pop un an extra set you have sitting around. The proprietary tips kind of tie your hands. Full of features in the app though.


Totally agree.  I will say, the passive isolation is better with the deep insertion.  This is getting inappropriate.


----------



## erockg

scubaphish said:


> It’s where I found my PI5 and PI7s that started it all


We need another forum titled "Why Do You REALLY Need Another Pair?"


----------



## nekonhime

erockg said:


> We need another forum titled "Why Do You REALLY Need Another Pair?"


It called addiction for a reason lol.


----------



## BooleanBones

scubaphish said:


> It’s where I found my PI5 and PI7s that started it all


I saw a set on there, very tempting again. Along with about three other pages of stuff I do not need


----------



## erockg

BooleanBones said:


> I saw a set on there, very tempting again. Along with about three other pages of stuff I do not need


Finger on the trigger to try yet again a pair of PI7s but they just have horrible bluetooth connection in my use.  Drove me nuts.  Especially outdoors.  @scubaphish are you have any issues indoors or out?


----------



## scubaphish (Sep 9, 2021)

erockg said:


> Finger on the trigger to try yet again a pair of PI7s but they just have horrible bluetooth connection in my use.  Drove me nuts.  Especially outdoors.  @scubaphish are you have any issues indoors or out?


One of the reasons I returned them…at least when trying to use AptX/HD creative dongle. AAC was more stable but still…walking around lower Manhattan near the river there were plenty of jolts

I considered them as being only indoor buds but that seemed less than ideal. Same as using them only on AAC.


----------



## BooleanBones (Sep 9, 2021)

scubaphish said:


> One of the reasons I returned them…at least when trying to use AptX/HD creative dongle. AAC was more stable but still…walking around lower Manhattan near the river there were plenty of jolts


Thanks for this, backed away from the purchase button  I see my PX7 Carbon cans (not mine, just the same as mine) on there for 120$ off. That is a great deal if you like over the ears.


----------



## erockg

scubaphish said:


> One of the reasons I returned them…at least when trying to use AptX/HD creative dongle. AAC was more stable but still…walking around lower Manhattan near the river there were plenty of jolts


Ah, okay, you are PI7-less these days?  Yeah, the city will do that.  Surprising the signal bouncing off buildings wouldn't help.  Thanks for helping me say no.


----------



## erockg

BooleanBones said:


> Thanks for this, backed away from the purchase button  I see my PX7 Carbon cans on there for 120$ off. That is a great deal if you like over the ears.


Same here.  I'm dying to try out those B&O H95s.  Help... Me...


----------



## scubaphish

erockg said:


> Ah, okay, you are PI7-less these days?  Yeah, the city will do that.  Surprising the signal bouncing off buildings wouldn't help.  Thanks for helping me say no.


Yeah, I had higher hopes to say the least.  I’d walk my dog the same path with each and every pair of earphones I tried and the differences in dealing with interference was clear. It almost seems like the buds aren’t allocating enough power to prioritiz/hold the connection.


----------



## nekonhime

BooleanBones said:


> Thanks for this, backed away from the purchase button  I see my PX7 Carbon cans (not mine, just the same as mine) on there for 120$ off. That is a great deal if you like over the ears.


Idk, but I have to return the px7 orginal version due to their horrific sound and almost to none anc.


----------



## nekonhime

erockg said:


> Same here.  I'm dying to try out those B&O H95s.  Help... Me...


You can just try the h9i for less money though


----------



## erockg

nekonhime said:


> You can just try the h9i for less money though


What makes you think I didn't try them LOL?


----------



## nekonhime

erockg said:


> What makes you think I didn't try them LOL?


It just my one cent opinion. Also, h9i allow user to change battery easily is one of the factor make me buy them.


----------



## erockg

nekonhime said:


> Idk, but I have to return the px7 orginal version due to their horrific sound and almost to none anc.


I loved the PX7s.  That said, they were too tight on my giant head.


scubaphish said:


> Yeah, I had higher hopes to say the least.  I’d walk my dog the same path with each and every pair of earphones I tried and the differences in dealing with interference was clear. It almost seems like the buds aren’t allocating enough power to prioritiz/hold the connection.


Once you get a bunch of dropouts, there's just no going back. We're discouraged every use.  I remember when Earin M-1 were the only buds in town.  I so badly wanted to love them, and I did, but man, the dropouts.  Awful.  The sound would drift off and then drift back in.  They were known for that.  But today, another company is right there waiting to stomp all over the last one who release a bud with something better.  It's fun.  You know, for kids.


----------



## BooleanBones

nekonhime said:


> Idk, but I have to return the px7 orginal version due to their horrific sound and almost to none anc.


I really like my PX7s carbons compared to the PX version 2s I have. Not tried the non-carbon edition. They are supposedly the same, but lot of folks say they are different.


----------



## nekonhime

erockg said:


> I loved the PX7s.  That said, they were too tight on my giant head.
> 
> Once you get a bunch of dropouts, there's just no going back. We're discouraged every use.  I remember when Earin M-1 were the only buds in town.  I so badly wanted to love them, and I did, but man, the dropouts.  Awful.  The sound would drift off and then drift back in.  They were known for that.  But today, another company is right there waiting to stomp all over the last one who release a bud with something better.  It's fun.  You know, for kids.


The px7 was the perfect fit for my head, but the sound just off the chart for me and the anc is just useless.


BooleanBones said:


> I really like my PX7s carbons compared to the PX version 2s I have. Not tried the non-carbon edition. They are supposedly the same, but lot of folks say they are different.


Many people said the same but I have not try the carbon version due to the bad impression I had with the px7 original version. I returned them after 2 hours of listening


----------



## BooleanBones

erockg said:


> Same here.  I'm dying to try out those B&O H95s.  Help... Me...


With the ease of returns at B&O, they are very tempting, especially after listening to the EQ SQ. Think @pitch_black should chime in here. He has a set


----------



## bladefd

Apparently MT has a new firmware as per CA's newsletter email. Haven't tried it yet but will tonight.


----------



## erockg

erockg said:


> Been using these on Zoom calls all day, moving back and forth from my phone to my desktop.  They have what Nura is calling "Bluetooth Quickswitch."  I'm impressed.  Works great.  Pair to the devices once and you can just tap and switch all day with no issues.


Did the old walk outdoors test for about a mile.  Zero dropouts.  Loud sound.  Excellent.


----------



## erockg

@BooleanBones, new addition just arrived.  It's not always about Apple Music!  Awww yeah!


----------



## BooleanBones

erockg said:


> @BooleanBones, new addition just arrived.  It's not always about Apple Music!  Awww yeah!


very nice!


----------



## darveniza

erockg said:


> Nothing here on Amazon by me.  Looking now.  Was in stock this morning for delivery by 9/28.  Amazon must not have stock yet from B&O.
> 
> You don't hear a pop on the below tracks with the ANC on?
> 
> ...


Will try when I get home


----------



## Caipirina

Darn, I blink and already 13 pages behind again! I promise I will catch up, but quickly a left field question here:
Has anyone actually ever gotten the Sony WF-H800 ??? those multi colored ones? From YT reviews (thumbnails) I have a feeling they might only have been released in Japan ...   I like the pretty colors and Sony in general, and I could snatch a used pair at e-earphone for 7190¥ ...  but if the fit is anything like the XM3, I might not 
Also tempting are the SP900 fully waterproof (swim!) ones for a mere 5400¥ (used rating C  ), but I read terrible reviews about those, that max vol level is not enough ...


----------



## Tommy C

erockg said:


> They knocked them down to $174.99 now.  Can you believe it?  Ugh.



This is one post that I definitely didn't need to see LOL


----------



## Tommy C

bladefd said:


> Apparently MT has a new firmware as per CA's newsletter email. Haven't tried it yet but will tonight.


I really hope is to fix the electrical gremlins.
Mine hasn't done the volume down in a while but often just one bud connects out of the case.
Also, your eq settings gave me hope because out of the box the Immersive option was underwhelming so hoping they tweak that too.


----------



## HaliHarry

erockg said:


> I love mine and other people on this forum do too. The ANC version is better than the last few versions in my opinion. They have worked out a lot of the bugs.  One complaint is that they have a strange fit, which they do. And they use a proprietary tip.  I've never had a problem and they work very well for me.


How can your T5 ii ANC compare with B&O EQ in SQ ?? I've heard alot about the improvement of sound quality on T5 ANC compare with the original ver. However, i dont like physical control on Klipsch, at least the way M&D do better on their earbuds use press button similarly.


----------



## erockg (Sep 9, 2021)

HaliHarry said:


> How can your T5 ii ANC compare with B&O EQ in SQ ?? I've heard alot about the improvement of sound quality on T5 ANC compare with the original ver. However, i dont like physical control on Klipsch, at least the way M&D do better on their earbuds use press button similarly.


This is a tough question.  What I like, you may not.  All of the earbuds you refer to above are wonderful in many ways.  I prefer the sound quality of the EQs over the T5II ANC, but I had/have both.  I'll repurchase the EQs again for sure.  Using the T5II ANCs right now and they're awesome.  They both have different tuning.  EQs have a deep punch if you EQ them a certain way, which is what I like.  The Klipsch aren't as deep.  They're not bad by any means.  I like them both.  The EQs have a more premium feel, aluminum case and touch pads, whereas the Klipsch McClaren (which I have) are plastic with carbon fiber they say.  All feels plastic to me.  If you don't want to spend $399 on the B&Os, then go with the Klipsch.  The controls are great and do not have a hard click.  It's a soft click.  But the Klipsch go deep into your ears, whereas the B&Os do not.  Just buy one or both from someplace with a great return policy.  Take them for a test drive.  Only you can choose which sounds better.  All of our opinions here are just that, opinions


----------



## HaliHarry (Sep 9, 2021)

darveniza said:


> Will try when I get home


I havent recived my B&O yet but my old PI7 have the same issue but just in this song. 



Try piano drop part from 4:10 to 4:20 i meet the pop at the highest piano note when i turn on ANC. This issue dont exist in other song but this my superbly favorite song so i return them to get B&O 😂 unfortunately someone said that EQ got the same problem 🥲


----------



## HaliHarry

erockg said:


> This is a tough question.  What I like, you may not.  All of the earbuds you refer to above are wonderful in many ways.  I prefer the sound quality of the EQs over the T5II ANC, but I had/have both.  I'll repurchase the EQs again for sure.  Using the T5II ANCs right now and they're awesome.  They both have different tuning.  EQs have a deep punch if you EQ them a certain way, which is what I like.  The Klipsch aren't as deep.  They're not bad by any means.  I like them both.  The EQs have a more premium feel, aluminum case and touch pads, whereas the Klipsch McClaren (which I have) are plastic with carbon fiber they say.  All feels plastic to me.  If you don't want to spend $399 on the B&Os, then go with the Klipsch.  The controls are great and do not have a hard click.  It's a soft click.  But the Klipsch go deep into your ears, whereas the B&Os do not.  Just buy one or both from someplace with a great return policy.  Take them for a test drive.  Only you can choose which sounds better.  All of our opinions here are just that, opinions


I ordered the EQ. Klipsch earbuds aren't available in my country, not yet. But if it has a noticeable sound quality, ill try to get both haha


----------



## erockg

HaliHarry said:


> I ordered the EQ. Klipsch earbuds aren't available in my country, not yet. But if it has a noticeable sound quality, ill try to get both haha


Just to confuse and torment you more, I do very much love the Devialet Gemini.  They have something called Ear Active Matching.  The soundstage is just euphoric.  They're my #1.  Then there are these new Nuratrue buds.  They fixed the volume issue and wow, the cheapest of the bunch and well worth $199.   So if you can try one of both of these too, I'd go for it.


----------



## nekonhime

Just received the mw08 today and I kinda like them after tone down their bass which make me want to experience the T5 II more. Addiction is real for me now


----------



## darveniza

erockg said:


> Nothing here on Amazon by me.  Looking now.  Was in stock this morning for delivery by 9/28.  Amazon must not have stock yet from B&O.
> 
> You don't hear a pop on the below tracks with the ANC on?
> 
> ...


Still not at home, it's one of these days. However as I am stuck with some reports and have my Senheiser TW2 and the MW08 I tried the songs on my IPAD. I hear faintly a pop on both , on songs 1 & 3 with volume cranked up. So something is there, each had a different level of like a pop to describe it. 

Can this be something else, like a reproduction issue as these tried and tested 

A bit confused


----------



## erockg

darveniza said:


> Still not at home, it's one of these days. However as I am stuck with some reports and have my Senheiser TW2 and the MW08 I tried the songs on my IPAD. I hear faintly a pop on both , on songs 1 & 3 with volume cranked up. So something is there, each had a different level of like a pop to describe it.
> 
> Can this be something else, like a reproduction issue as these tried and tested
> 
> A bit confused


Try with your B&Os when you can.  I don’t hear any issues with my Devialet, Klipsch, Nuratrue and APPs.  
Secretly hoping your EQs do not have the issue.  Then I have hope it’s a hardware issue and I’ll repurchase.

Thanks for trying.  Appreciate it.


----------



## dweaver

MichaelScarn said:


> Could use some advice. As I mentioned earlier, my Status Between Pro's sound amazing, except for the occasional hiss or sharp S in voice recordings or podcasts. I did some googling, and it turns out to be this phenomenon called sibilance. Pretty sure you guys all know what this is, but for me it was the first time reading about it.
> I assume it could be fixed by lowering some frequencies on the EQ, but here's the thing: the Status BP's don't come with an app or eq.
> 
> So that made me think about going for some second hand Sony wf-1000xm3 (I can get a pair for around 70 euro's I think). Any thoughts? Stay with the Status? Go for the Sony's or do something else?
> ...


I have both and the Sony does not any sibilance issues and is more relaxed than the BP. For me personally I like the BP added detail and clarity. But if your struggling the 1000XM3 at that price is a great option. Btw try other tips,I found I needed to get bigger tips than what the BP cam with so they sealed properly.


----------



## MichaelScarn

dweaver said:


> I have both and the Sony does not any sibilance issues and is more relaxed than the BP. For me personally I like the BP added detail and clarity. But if your struggling the 1000XM3 at that price is a great option. Btw try other tips,I found I needed to get bigger tips than what the BP cam with so they sealed properly.


Good idea, I’ll try some other tips first. Which ones would you suggest?


----------



## bladefd

Hmm, doesn't show firmware update for the MT in the app. Idk, it's possible the newsletter is talking about the update from a couple weeks ago and they just sent the monthly newsletter now. There is no mention of release date. Either that or I haven't received it yet.


----------



## dweaver

MichaelScarn said:


> Good idea, I’ll try some other tips first. Which ones would you suggest?


I don't generally buy tips per se. I steal from other IEMs I own lol. Sony hybrids work well and would tone the sibilince down a bit as well. In my case I like added detail so used a wider mouth tip than Sony if you have JVC spiral dot tips they would be similar. In my case mine came from the Technics AZ70..


----------



## MichaelScarn

dweaver said:


> I don't generally buy tips per se. I steal from other IEMs I own lol. Sony hybrids work well and would tone the sibilince down a bit as well. In my case I like added detail so used a wider mouth tip than Sony if you have JVC spiral dot tips they would be similar. In my case mine came from the Technics AZ70..


Thanks 🙏


----------



## HaliHarry (Sep 10, 2021)

Aw one more issue of EQ i've heard is it records then amplifies wind noise when we turn on ANC and transparency mode. The typical sample is sony wf1000-xm3 and sony improved them on wf1000-xm4. It seem B&O is big brand of sound quality but lack of experience in developing support-technology.

Korean channel but he has Eng-sub


----------



## clerkpalmer

nekonhime said:


> You can just try the h9i for less money though


The guys in the h95 thread claim the h9 sound better anyway.


----------



## clerkpalmer

HaliHarry said:


> Aw one more issue of EQ i've heard is it records then amplifies wind noise when we turn on ANC and transparency mode. The typical sample is sony wf1000-xm3 and sony improved them on wf1000-xm4. It seem B&O is big brand of sound quality but lack of experience in developing support-technology.
> 
> Korean channel but he has Eng-sub



Definitely an issue. I exercise with a fan and adaptive anc and the fan do not get along well.


----------



## clerkpalmer

nekonhime said:


> Just received the mw08 today and I kinda like them after tone down their bass which make me want to experience the T5 II more. Addiction is real for me now


How do you tone it down?


----------



## Tenlow

nekonhime said:


> Just received the mw08 today and I kinda like them after tone down their bass which make me want to experience the T5 II more. Addiction is real for me now


I love the bass response of the MW08 Sport tbh. Yes, it is elevated but it is not thick, muddy or boomy sounding. I still think it is fairly tight and punchy. I found that tips are very important here as well. I think you have to use the smallest possible tip that still gives you a good seal to have the best bass experience with them.


----------



## Tommy C

bladefd said:


> Hmm, doesn't show firmware update for the MT in the app. Idk, it's possible the newsletter is talking about the update from a couple weeks ago and they just sent the monthly newsletter now. There is no mention of release date. Either that or I haven't received it yet.



Same here, I just checked and it says I'm up-to-date with the firmware. 

Also, I spoke too soon the other day as I may not have the volume down issue but now it's volume up to the max issue a few moments after inserting them which made me think maybe it's the way my ear touches the touch sensor somehow? I don't know but needless to say an unexpected volume up to the max is a serious issue that may cause a very unpleasant experience to ones ears.  

Gonna shoot an email to Support but not sure I'm willing to bother to RMA them as I'm still within the return window and I don't love them enough to put the effort I suppose, but at least get this issue documented with their support team as a reference.


----------



## nekonhime

clerkpalmer said:


> The guys in the h95 thread claim the h9 sound better anyway.


Eh, really? I though the h95 is 15% better than the h9i?


----------



## nekonhime

clerkpalmer said:


> How do you tone it down?


I used wavelet and audiowizard


----------



## nekonhime

Tenlow said:


> I love the bass response of the MW08 Sport tbh. Yes, it is elevated but it is not thick, muddy or boomy sounding. I still think it is fairly tight and punchy. I found that tips are very important here as well. I think you have to use the smallest possible tip that still gives you a good seal to have the best bass experience with them.


Interesting, I may have to steal ear tips from the 1000xm4 to try out.


----------



## scubaphish

Tommy C said:


> Same here, I just checked and it says I'm up-to-date with the firmware.
> 
> Also, I spoke too soon the other day as I may not have the volume down issue but now it's volume up to the max issue a few moments after inserting them which made me think maybe it's the way my ear touches the touch sensor somehow? I don't know but needless to say an unexpected volume up to the max is a serious issue that may cause a very unpleasant experience to ones ears.
> 
> Gonna shoot an email to Support but not sure I'm willing to bother to RMA them as I'm still within the return window and I don't love them enough to put the effort I suppose, but at least get this issue documented with their support team as a reference.


I was told to enter an RMA on Tuesday and haven’t heard back yet.


----------



## Tommy C

scubaphish said:


> I was told to enter an RMA on Tuesday and haven’t heard back yet.



Argh, I hope you will hear back from them very soon.


----------



## TK33

MTW2 getting discounted pretty heavily recently.  Wonder if (and hoping) something new is on the way.  Currently $200 @ Best Buy and Amazon.

https://www.bestbuy.com/site/sennhe...rbud-headphones-black/6405291.p?skuId=6405291

SENNHEISER Momentum True Wireless 2 - Bluetooth in-Ear Buds with Active Noise Cancellation, Smart Pause, Customizable Touch Control and 28-Hour Battery Life - Black (M3IETW2 Black) https://smile.amazon.com/dp/B085LVV...abc_TPRGQKEREZZ6ENB03ZCK?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1


----------



## bladefd (Sep 10, 2021)

Tommy C said:


> Same here, I just checked and it says I'm up-to-date with the firmware.
> 
> Also, I spoke too soon the other day as I may not have the volume down issue but now it's volume up to the max issue a few moments after inserting them which made me think maybe it's the way my ear touches the touch sensor somehow? I don't know but needless to say an unexpected volume up to the max is a serious issue that may cause a very unpleasant experience to ones ears.
> 
> Gonna shoot an email to Support but not sure I'm willing to bother to RMA them as I'm still within the return window and I don't love them enough to put the effort I suppose, but at least get this issue documented with their support team as a reference.


Return them. Not worth the hassle. I got an rma, and it didn't solve the volume issue for me. The case is also not good.

There are better earbuds out there with fewer issues even if a bit more expensive. CA rushed out the MT by cutting corners wherever they could. This is straight up a quality assurance nightmare tbh, and they used the customers to test for bugs/issues.


----------



## bladefd

TK33 said:


> MTW2 getting discounted pretty heavily recently.  Wonder if (and hoping) something new is on the way.  Currently $200 @ Best Buy and Amazon.
> 
> https://www.bestbuy.com/site/sennhe...rbud-headphones-black/6405291.p?skuId=6405291
> 
> SENNHEISER Momentum True Wireless 2 - Bluetooth in-Ear Buds with Active Noise Cancellation, Smart Pause, Customizable Touch Control and 28-Hour Battery Life - Black (M3IETW2 Black) https://smile.amazon.com/dp/B085LVV...abc_TPRGQKEREZZ6ENB03ZCK?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1


Most likely have something new on the way because I have never seen the mtw2's price drop for brand new that much.


----------



## erockg

TK33 said:


> MTW2 getting discounted pretty heavily recently.  Wonder if (and hoping) something new is on the way.  Currently $200 @ Best Buy and Amazon.
> 
> https://www.bestbuy.com/site/sennhe...rbud-headphones-black/6405291.p?skuId=6405291
> 
> SENNHEISER Momentum True Wireless 2 - Bluetooth in-Ear Buds with Active Noise Cancellation, Smart Pause, Customizable Touch Control and 28-Hour Battery Life - Black (M3IETW2 Black) https://smile.amazon.com/dp/B085LVV...abc_TPRGQKEREZZ6ENB03ZCK?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1


I think I read someplace that they’re releasing a CX pro.  Might’ve been an earlier post by someone.


----------



## pilgrimbilly

nekonhime said:


> Eh, really? I though the h95 is 15% better than the h9i?


What does "15% better" mean?


----------



## jsmiller58

pilgrimbilly said:


> What does "15% better" mean?


Ummm… more than 14% better and less than 16% better…?

Sorry, it’s Friday, and I couldn’t resist!


----------



## ilatimer1

Found some expensive ear tips today. So I have been struggling to justify the Beoplay EQs while I have the MW08s. For me it is no contest with sound. The EQs sound so much better to me. The problem is I cannot get a good seal with the EQ ear tips. The MW08s fit fantastic. So what did I do? I took the tips off of the MW08s and put them on the EQs and they fit great now . I went onto the Master & Dynamic site and ordered more tips. I really wish the sound was better on the MW08s, because I really like the fit and build. The bass is just too overwhelming for my taste.


----------



## Tenlow

ilatimer1 said:


> Found some expensive ear tips today. So I have been struggling to justify the Beoplay EQs while I have the MW08s. For me it is no contest with sound. The EQs sound so much better to me. The problem is I cannot get a good seal with the EQ ear tips. The MW08s fit fantastic. So what did I do? I took the tips off of the MW08s and put them on the EQs and they fit great now . I went onto the Master & Dynamic site and ordered more tips. I really wish the sound was better on the MW08s, because I really like the fit and build. The bass is just too overwhelming for my taste.


The EQs do sound very good. Probably one of the best sounding TWS I have heard to date. Still, as long as they don't fix the annoying flaws and inconveniences (for me), I will stay with the MW08S. 

I tried all the major players, namely the MTW2, WF-1000XM4, PI7, EQs, Airpods Pro and the MW08S and ultimately kept the MW08S. 

Sound quality is more than sufficiently good, fit is perfect, battery life is phenomenal, build quality and design are excellent and I love the physical buttons and the case. ANC, while not the best, is solid and call quality good (at least before the latest update somehow). Tough to beat as a whole package for me right now. They might be too bassy for some but they are fun, engaging and loud


----------



## gLer

Hey guys, I though you might appreciate my review of the new *Divinus Ostia* TWS IEM. I'd never heard of them before the company contacted me to see if I'd consider writing a review, and I'm glad I agreed because now my kids can enjoy a really decent upgrade from the crappy stock Apple earbuds on their iPhones. Check out the review *here*. And some eye candy for good measure...


----------



## gnychis

erockg said:


> I will.  Happy they implemented all the things missing from Gen 1.  Fingers crossed they rock!


Did they arrive yet?


----------



## erockg

gnychis said:


> Did they arrive yet?


Out for delivery!


----------



## jant71

gLer said:


> Hey guys, I though you might appreciate my review of the new *Divinus Ostia* TWS IEM. I'd never heard of them before the company contacted me to see if I'd consider writing a review, and I'm glad I agreed because now my kids can enjoy a really decent upgrade from the crappy stock Apple earbuds on their iPhones. Check out the review *here*. And some eye candy for good measure...
> 
> ​


Actually well regarded but the first model and cheap and no real features outside of the sound. I am looking forward to what they are coming with next.


----------



## jant71

Back Bay back again with a new one... https://www.amazon.com/dp/B09DLCG8BQ/ref=twister_B09DB8XK9Y?_encoding=UTF8&th=1


----------



## rhsauer

Tenlow said:


> The EQs do sound very good. Probably one of the best sounding TWS I have heard to date. Still, as long as they don't fix the annoying flaws and inconveniences (for me), I will stay with the MW08S.
> 
> I tried all the major players, namely the MTW2, WF-1000XM4, PI7, EQs, Airpods Pro and the MW08S and ultimately kept the MW08S.
> 
> Sound quality is more than sufficiently good, fit is perfect, battery life is phenomenal, build quality and design are excellent and I love the physical buttons and the case. ANC, while not the best, is solid and call quality good (at least before the latest update somehow). Tough to beat as a whole package for me right now. They might be too bassy for some but they are fun, engaging and loud


Did the 4.4.5 firmware update mess up the microphone quality on the MW08’s?  My microphones are suddenly terrible — no one can hear me on telephone calls and the volume on voice memos is way too low. I was about to RMA the earphones, but if it’s a firmware issue, perhaps I’ll wait for them to fix it.


----------



## Tenlow

rhsauer said:


> Did the 4.4.5 firmware update mess up the microphone quality on the MW08’s?  My microphones are suddenly terrible — no one can hear me on telephone calls and the volume on voice memos is way too low. I was about to RMA the earphones, but if it’s a firmware issue, perhaps I’ll wait for them to fix it.


Seems like, yes. Before that update it was really good. Now people are complaining. I'm hoping for a quick fix as well.


----------



## erockg

rhsauer said:


> Did the 4.4.5 firmware update mess up the microphone quality on the MW08’s?  My microphones are suddenly terrible — no one can hear me on telephone calls and the volume on voice memos is way too low. I was about to RMA the earphones, but if it’s a firmware issue, perhaps I’ll wait for them to fix it.


YES.  My mics went from hero to zero.  I had to RMA a pair, they sent me a new set, and after I updated the mics were awful.  I stupidly didn't try the mics on the new set BEFORE I updated them.  Sent them all back and was refunded.


----------



## Caipirina

If I wanted to splurge on one more top end item (obviously having the Bose AND the Sony xm4 is not enough to keep me from looking around ...) 
out of the 3: 
B&O EQ
Gemini
MW08

which one would I like best? I like it dynamic, sporty, bassy ... I am usually running when I listen to music ...  I enjoy very good ANC ... 

This time I might actually have a chance to try them out (even bring my own tips) before buying ...


----------



## darveniza

darveniza said:


> Will try when I get home


Hello, so a few things after testing the songs you sent:


On my observations last night at work with my other earphones what I thought was like a faint sound, when I was in a quiet enviroment I found that it was really nothing particular
Checked the B&O and did not get any type of Pop, which would almost sound to me like the DD pulling. Tried with ANC on and off + differn EQ settings. Could not find anything
One thing I did notice was in the song by Bronx a diffrence between left and right, it was not a pop or anything like that, it felt like some sort of channel balance. The PI, TW2, MW08 did not exhibit it. However the B&O and the Sony XM4 did give me that "feedback". I tested the song with my Fir Audio VxV and found that there is a difference between Left and Right channel on that song its not like in your face unless you are looking for it or maybe it just that the sensitivity of the driver picks it up???
These findings in no way mean that the B&O may have an issue as it could be that I am not picking it up due to my hearing response, etc

Hopefully you can test another pair and see if its hardware or something else


----------



## BooleanBones (Sep 10, 2021)

Caipirina said:


> If I wanted to splurge on one more top end item (obviously having the Bose AND the Sony xm4 is not enough to keep me from looking around ...)
> out of the 3:
> B&O EQ
> Gemini
> ...


Not sure about the MW08s, but I doubt the Geminis and B&Os would please you on a trot down the road. You may spend more time picking up earbuds than running.


----------



## erockg

darveniza said:


> Hello, so a few things after testing the songs you sent:
> 
> 
> On my observations last night at work with my other earphones what I thought was like a faint sound, when I was in a quiet enviroment I found that it was really nothing particular
> ...


AWESOME.  Thanks for doing that.  I was actually near my local B&O today and repurchased a pair.  I'll be testing them out, but I have stagefright!


----------



## BooleanBones

erockg said:


> AWESOME.  Thanks for doing that.  I was actually near my local B&O today and repurchased a pair.  I'll be testing them out, but I have stagefright!


Just don’t turn on the ANC until tomorrow so you can tell yourself that it’s all good 😊


----------



## erockg

gnychis said:


> Did they arrive yet?


Got them.  Case, buds and adapters look identical to V1, which was expected.  Trying to figure out the EQ process now.  Major difference with hardware EQ.  Using Apple Music is much more fun now.  But wow, they fixed all the control issues I had, esp. Volume Control!  Very happy so far.  Let the fun begin.


----------



## erockg

BooleanBones said:


> Just don’t turn on the ANC until tomorrow so you can tell yourself that it’s all good 😊


Damn youuuuuuuuuuuu!


----------



## erockg

erockg said:


> Got them.  Case, buds and adapters look identical to V1, which was expected.  Trying to figure out the EQ process now.  Major difference with hardware EQ.  Using Apple Music is much more fun now.  But wow, they fixed all the control issues I had, esp. Volume Control!  Very happy so far.  Let the fun begin.


They also added one feature that I always love.  When you pause music, Transparency Mode kicks in.  You can turn this feature on or off.


----------



## rhsauer

erockg said:


> YES.  My mics went from hero to zero.  I had to RMA a pair, they sent me a new set, and after I updated the mics were awful.  I stupidly didn't try the mics on the new set BEFORE I updated them.  Sent them all back and was refunded.


Grrr.   They can't just roll back the update?  Geez.  I had just settled on these as my daily driver!


----------



## HaliHarry (Sep 10, 2021)

darveniza said:


> Hello, so a few things after testing the songs you sent:
> 
> 
> On my observations last night at work with my other earphones what I thought was like a faint sound, when I was in a quiet enviroment I found that it was really nothing particular
> ...


I'm so happy to hear that not at all EQ pairs got the pop issue. I guess Bones and Erokg are in the same area and that production batch got problem. It seems you two got trouble with the sand yellow one. Even though I know they have nothing to do with color haha but hope that my black one coming is good. I'll let you guys know when i received it.


----------



## erockg

HaliHarry said:


> I'm so happy to hear that not at all EQ pairs got the pop issue. I guess Bones and Erokg are in the same side and that production batch got problem. It seems you two got trouble with the sand yellow one. Even though I know they have nothing to do with color haha but hope that my black one coming is good. I'll let you guys know when i received it.


I've been using a new pair today and I'm not having the same pop issue on the tracks I've tested.  Will report back if they suddenly occur.  I truly love these B&O EQs.


----------



## HaliHarry

erockg said:


> I've been using a new pair today and I'm not having the same pop issue on the tracks I've tested.  Will report back if they suddenly occur.  I truly love these B&O EQs.


That's so good to hear your feedback. Congrats !!! Just enjoy it


----------



## BooleanBones

erockg said:


> I've been using a new pair today and I'm not having the same pop issue on the tracks I've tested.  Will report back if they suddenly occur.  I truly love these B&O EQs.


Crossing fingers!


----------



## nekonhime

pilgrimbilly said:


> What does "15% better" mean?





jsmiller58 said:


> Ummm… more than 14% better and less than 16% better…?
> 
> Sorry, it’s Friday, and I couldn’t resist!


Ah, it mean the h95 sound better but not good enough to justify for buying the h95 rather than the budget h9i.


----------



## Tommy C

after spending a few days with the Soundcore Liberty 2 Pro+ I feel like they deserved to be in the conversation for best TWS around $100 or so for a hybrid set with Knowles BA.
I got them for $110 before tax and they are superb value for money.
Form factor is identical to the L2P which is pretty meh to the eye but is very comfortable to my ears .
No touch control and they have physical buttons that work very well and you can customize easily with Volume up/down, Ambient on/off and volume up/down.
The Default eq in the app is utterly trash, there is no nice way to put it. You have to go through the HearID process and only then they are starting to shine or go through the many presents and tweak them to you liking.
The sound signature after I eq'ed them is really nice and crisp and fairly natural. Not too much dynamics or 3D feelings but it's above average and soundstage is fairly reasonable too for TWS.
Someone mentioned here that they had artificial highs and recessed mids but I'm just not hearing it.
All in all, to me they are in the same league of the CA MT if not better as these have better highs and less colored sound and aren't as bassy.

Any questions, ask away.


----------



## clerkpalmer

Tenlow said:


> The EQs do sound very good. Probably one of the best sounding TWS I have heard to date. Still, as long as they don't fix the annoying flaws and inconveniences (for me), I will stay with the MW08S.
> 
> I tried all the major players, namely the MTW2, WF-1000XM4, PI7, EQs, Airpods Pro and the MW08S and ultimately kept the MW08S.
> 
> Sound quality is more than sufficiently good, fit is perfect, battery life is phenomenal, build quality and design are excellent and I love the physical buttons and the case. ANC, while not the best, is solid and call quality good (at least before the latest update somehow). Tough to beat as a whole package for me right now. They might be too bassy for some but they are fun, engaging and loud


I put some sednas on the mw08. It was awful. Totally sucked the bass and warmth from them. Tinny. Strange. So stock tips are boomy and sednas are the opposite. Spinfits are too slippery. Any recommendations?


----------



## HaliHarry (Sep 10, 2021)

clerkpalmer said:


> I put some sednas on the mw08. It was awful. Totally sucked the bass and warmth from them. Tinny. Strange. So stock tips are boomy and sednas are the opposite. Spinfits are too slippery. Any recommendations?


How is their sound ? You mean MW08 too much powerful mid-bass or sub-bass overwhelming?


----------



## HaliHarry

erockg said:


> I've been using a new pair today and I'm not having the same pop issue on the tracks I've tested.  Will report back if they suddenly occur.  I truly love these B&O EQs.


One question that i know clearly the answer but i still want to ask you 😂 Is volume louder  ???


----------



## clerkpalmer

Caipirina said:


> If I wanted to splurge on one more top end item (obviously having the Bose AND the Sony xm4 is not enough to keep me from looking around ...)
> out of the 3:
> B&O EQ
> Gemini
> ...


None of these are good for running. Mw08 would be your best bet but I'd be surprised if they stayed put.


----------



## clerkpalmer

HaliHarry said:


> How is their sound ? You mean MW08 too much powerful mid-bass or sub-bass overwhelming?


Nope. Tinny. Zero bass.


----------



## nekonhime

HaliHarry said:


> How is their sound ? You mean MW08 too much powerful mid-bass or sub-bass overwhelming?


No, they have warm signature sound. Bass is ok, but I feel that the bass too warm for some songs which not allow the background sound to shine.


----------



## erockg

HaliHarry said:


> One question that i know clearly the answer but i still want to ask you 😂 Is volume louder  ???


Nope.  But I don't have any issues with the volume.   If you want volume, get the Nuratrue.  Those suckers CRANK.  I had to turn off the gain because I thought I was killing my ears.


----------



## HaliHarry

erockg said:


> Nope.  But I don't have any issues with the volume.   If you want volume, get the Nuratrue.  Those suckers CRANK.  I had to turn off the gain because I thought I was killing my ears.


I think my problem with the PI7 is that the bass is so loud that it overshadows the mids.  To hear the vocals clearly I need to turn up the volume. To be honest, I'm not one to listen to music too loud.  I hope even at low volume I can hear the vocals clearly on the EQ.


----------



## Tenlow

clerkpalmer said:


> I put some sednas on the mw08. It was awful. Totally sucked the bass and warmth from them. Tinny. Strange. So stock tips are boomy and sednas are the opposite. Spinfits are too slippery. Any recommendations?


Stock tips are completely fine for me. Found my perfect size and have a snug and comfortable fit now. I haven't even tried to tip roll here. Sound is still perfectly fine for me. If the bass is "too boomy" for you, I don't think these are for you tbh.


----------



## sebek

Hi, I have no experience with wireless IEMs, so sorry for the newbie questions ...

I've read about the Sony WF-1000XM4, is it the best wireless IEM?

How does it sound compared to wired IEMs in roughly the same price range, like a Moondrop Blessing 2 or DUNU SA6? Is it much inferior to a Sony IER-M9?

The dumbest question: Does Sony WF-1000XM4 already have its own DAC and amplifier inside? Should I just pair it with my smartphone to get the best sound?


----------



## C_Lindbergh (Sep 11, 2021)

sebek said:


> Hi, I have no experience with wireless IEMs, so sorry for the newbie questions ...
> 
> I've read about the Sony WF-1000XM4, is it the best wireless IEM?
> 
> ...



1) Depends, I'd say its the best when it comes to tech/features, with TWS the tech/app etc is as important as the SQ

2) Stands no chance against IEMs of that calibre, you don't buy TWS if you want the very best SQ, the convenience factor and all tech features are the upsides

3) Yes, every TWS earbud has got its own dac/amp


----------



## cresny

Caipirina said:


> If I wanted to splurge on one more top end item (obviously having the Bose AND the Sony xm4 is not enough to keep me from looking around ...)
> out of the 3:
> B&O EQ
> Gemini
> ...


Let's face it. If the human ear was meant to hold stuff we'd have evolved threadform bumps and some sort of goo rather than weird folds and wax. And that's not even bringing sweat into it. In other words I don't think it's possible to run with these things without either some sort of supporting apparatus or constant fiddling.

Anyway, of the above I only know the Gemini, but for that I at least can vouch for it's EAM making them sound good even when their tips are just barely hanging on to the edge of my ears. The bass is definitely different but still somehow there, and the details are still surprisingly present but more open sounding. And from what I've read their ANC beats all others. Good luck!


----------



## HaliHarry

cresny said:


> Let's face it. If the human ear was meant to hold stuff we'd have evolved threadform bumps and some sort of goo rather than weird folds and wax. And that's not even bringing sweat into it. In other words I don't think it's possible to run with these things without either some sort of supporting apparatus or constant fiddling.
> 
> Anyway, of the above I only know the Gemini, but for that I at least can vouch for it's EAM making them sound good even when their tips are just barely hanging on to the edge of my ears. The bass is definitely different but still somehow there, and the details are still surprisingly present but more open sounding. And from what I've read their ANC beats all others. Good luck!


ANC of Gemini at high mode maybe the best. However, it makes a lot of white noise so i never turn on this of option. I usualy choose lower ANC mode


----------



## AudioBomb (Sep 11, 2021)

I've just got Nura Nuraloop and am more than impressed. Have tried almost everything that exists wireless, including SONY wf-1000X M4, the Nuraloop are on another league. First Bluetooth headphone I've heard that HAS instrument separation, 3D imaging and a large soundstage. Pretty much like a good triple driver like the FLC8n, etc. Detail is awesome, treble is very defined and airy, polished and bass pretty strong if you choose so. Tight, plenty of definition/texture. I'm a music producer and can perfectly use these as studio monitors at night while playing, letting the final mixing/mastering for my ADAM A7X monitors. It's how good this thing sounds, it's unbeleavable.

The SONYs can't even come close. No separation (typical on BT headphones), small soundstage, boomy bass, recessed mids. Vocals on Nura are exceptional.

One thing that impresses on an headphone is the impact of the snare drums and these deliver. Its something usually just possible with high-end DACs. Percussion here sounds amazing. The out of head experience these give you is extraordinary for a BT headphone and detail retreval is very high. This is audiophile grade which I thought impossible for a BT. Really. Im accostumed to high-end AD/DA converters and monitors on my studio.

Latest firmware update solves all issues seen on some amazon reviews, so there's nothing to fault at the time being.

Some people don't know that there is a dedicated setting for bass, so they say it's neutral or lacking (!!!!). They can touch bass-head territory if you want to. Just use the app correctly.

No Nura app for Windows though. Just iOS and Android. And the app is absolutely essential, so if you run Windows, don't buy these.


----------



## nekonhime

I just find out that the mw08 can not go with the 96.0 khz sample rate as it make the sound inaudible. I hope the next version will allow it to go 96/32 sample rate and ldac code if possible


----------



## pitch_black

Tenlow said:


> Is that officially documented in release notes or anything? I received my EQs today and find them fairly quiet (latest firmware). My MW08 Sport are definitely audibly louder.


No sorry it’s simply a misconception by my part….. shortly before I installed the firmware I was listening to Lisa Stanfield‘s „All around the world“ in max volume to search for that pop/clip noise…… after the firmware update I listen to my regular stuff but still with maxed out volume…. so my impression was it’s a lot louder….. sorry 🙈 for the false hope.


----------



## pitch_black

C_Lindbergh said:


> Do any MMCX earbuds work with the Shure adapters, as long as they fit the case?
> 
> Or would you run into any issues if your IEMs differs vastly from Shure's line up in terms of. Sensitivity etc?
> 
> I really like the tiny form-factor of both the case and adapter.


One of the better ones would be the IEMs from Campfire 🔥 Audio….. I had the Polaris and the Vega.


----------



## pitch_black

BooleanBones said:


> tough one for sure.


My gut tell’s me the pop/clip issue will get solved faster then B&W fixing their TWSs.

A few months ago I had to decide to go with the new formation line from B&W or something from B&O for a higher end multiroom speaker. At that point the formation line was already more than a year on tue market but B&W still didn’t fixed some basic stuff they promised to fix after a few months….. On the other hand the old B&O multiroom platform (M3, M5,…) had some issues too and was already on a dead end.
But at that time around B&O present their Beosound Level and Emerge - in more or less in the same price range. So I’d go with the Level. Not regret it so far….. only it’s not the best speaker for bassheads….. 

long story short, B&O is from my experience always a bit faster in fixing things and adding new features….


----------



## BooleanBones

pitch_black said:


> My gut tell’s me the pop/clip issue will get solved faster then B&W fixing their TWSs.
> 
> A few months ago I had to decide to go with the new formation line from B&W or something from B&O for a higher end multiroom speaker. At that point the formation line was already more than a year on tue market but B&W still didn’t fixed some basic stuff they promised to fix after a few months….. On the other hand the old B&O multiroom platform (M3, M5,…) had some issues too and was already on a dead end.
> But at that time around B&O present their Beosound Level and Emerge - in more or less in the same price range. So I’d go with the Level. Not regret it so far….. only it’s not the best speaker for bassheads…..
> ...


How do you like your H95s? I probably don't want to know the answer, but curious.


----------



## TooFrank

BooleanBones said:


> How do you like your H95s? I probably don't want to know the answer, but curious.


FWIW: the h95s are really, really nice...don’t go there😝


----------



## dweaver

Pulled out the AZ70 today. Forgot just how good these sound... Gonna be using them for the next while .


----------



## Luke Skywalker

I’m really hankering for some new buds. I have the Gemini (amazing sound but not great for running), Jabra 65 (never use) Sony XM3 (hate the sound), NUARL N6 Pro (love them), and the Bose NC (good but not anything special).

any recommendations in the $300 and up price range?


----------



## AudioBomb

Luke Skywalker said:


> I’m really hankering for some new buds. I have the Gemini (amazing sound but not great for running), Jabra 65 (never use) Sony XM3 (hate the sound), NUARL N6 Pro (love them), and the Bose NC (good but not anything special).
> 
> any recommendations in the $300 and up price range?


Just 2 words. Nura Nuraloop.


----------



## BooleanBones

TooFrank said:


> FWIW: the h95s are really, really nice...don’t go there😝


You had to say that didn’t you?


----------



## kDbJ

AudioBomb said:


> I've just got Nura Nuraloop and am more than impressed. Have tried almost everything that exists wireless, including SONY wf-1000X M4, the Nuraloop are on another league. First Bluetooth headphone I've heard that HAS instrument separation, 3D imaging and a large soundstage. Pretty much like a good triple driver like the FLC8n, etc. Detail is awesome and bass pretty strong if you choose so. Tight, excellent definition. I'm a music producer and can perfectly use these as studio monitors at night while playing, letting the final mixing/mastering for my ADAM A7X monitors. It's how good this thing sounds, it's unbeleavable.
> 
> The SONYs can't even come close. No separation (typical on BT headphones), small soundstage, boomy bass, recessed mids. Vocals on Nura are exceptional.
> 
> ...



Sir, You've wrote "Nuraloop" and i Got to be sure, that You don't mean by chance "Nuratrue" (?) i Own Nuratrue for a week and for now i'M done looking further (these are simply addicting, but i Only bought them just after volume upgrade). The "Nuratrue" would make all the more sense, because "Nuraloop" are the older one and neckband, so comparing them to WF-1000XM4 is simply confusing. Please, confirm, "Nuraloop" or "Nuratrue"


----------



## sebek

What are the best wireless IEMs for SQ that you have tried?


----------



## BooleanBones

sebek said:


> What are the best wireless IEMs for SQ that you have tried?


Me personally, the new EQs are my winner in this category. They are very clean.


----------



## TooFrank

BooleanBones said:


> You had to say that didn’t you?


See my challenge is that I (a.o.) have the XM4s and the Beoplay 3rd gen (and obviously also h95). This should be fine and I am happy - right? But then all you guys write about the SQ on the EQs.....And I don’t want to go there - or....


----------



## BooleanBones

TooFrank said:


> See my challenge is that I (a.o.) have the XM4s and the Beoplay 3rd gen (and obviously also h95). This should be fine and I am happy - right? But then all you guys write about the SQ on the EQs.....And I don’t want to go there - or....


They really have something with those. It's the first set I have listened to and easily passed all of my genre test playlist. For example, to hear the background harp on Florence and the Machine's unplugged tracks, sounds truly wonderful. But then you can turn around and throw Jay Z or Audioslave at them, and they sound just as good (might need to move the EQ dial of course). It's pretty amazing strengths they have built into them. Not to mention the build quality and design is awesome too. Consider this payback for that H95 carrot you dangled at me


----------



## TooFrank

BooleanBones said:


> They really have something with those. It's the first set I have listened to and easily passed all of my genre test playlist. For example, to hear the background harp on Florence and the Machine's unplugged tracks, sounds truly wonderful. But then you can turn around and throw Jay Z or Audioslave at them, and they sound just as good (might need to move the EQ dial of course). It's pretty amazing strengths they have built into them. Not to mention the build quality and





BooleanBones said:


> design is awesome too. Consider this payback for that H95 carrot you dangled at me


You had to say that didn’t you?😎


----------



## erockg

Luke Skywalker said:


> I’m really hankering for some new buds. I have the Gemini (amazing sound but not great for running), Jabra 65 (never use) Sony XM3 (hate the sound), NUARL N6 Pro (love them), and the Bose NC (good but not anything special).
> 
> any recommendations in the $300 and up price range?


B&O EQ, Nuratrue, Klipsch T5 II ANC McLaren, or as of today, the Shure Aonic 215 Gen 2.  They fixed all the bad things about the previous version.  So much that stupid me just dropped the cash to upgrade the IEMs on them to the SE846s.  Ugh.

May the force be with you.


----------



## erockg

AudioBomb said:


> Just 2 words. Nura Nuraloop.


I had the loops.  They were great.  You haven't tried the Nuratrue yet.  Join us.


----------



## assassin10000

erockg said:


> B&O EQ, Nuratrue, Klipsch T5 II ANC McLaren, or as of today, the Shure Aonic 215 Gen 2.  They fixed all the bad things about the previous version.  So much that stupid me just dropped the cash to upgrade the IEMs on them to the SE846s.  Ugh.
> 
> May the force be with you.


The darkside is strong within you.


----------



## BooleanBones

erockg said:


> B&O EQ, Nuratrue, Klipsch T5 II ANC McLaren, or as of today, the Shure Aonic 215 Gen 2.  They fixed all the bad things about the previous version.  So much that stupid me just dropped the cash to upgrade the IEMs on them to the SE846s.  Ugh.
> 
> May the force be with you.


Those Shures are pretty cool. I like that wired/wireless design.


----------



## AudioBomb

I can't imagine how good Nuraphones can sound after trying Nuraloop... I think I'll pull the trigger by Monday. Can't resist.


----------



## dweaver

Would love a comparison between the loops and the Nuratrue from an audio perspective. Both products are intriguing especially for a 50+ year old who has hearing deficits.


----------



## erockg

AudioBomb said:


> I can't imagine how good Nuraphones can sound after trying Nuraloop... I think I'll pull the trigger by Monday. Can't resist.


The over the ear Nuraphones felt very weird to me.  It's an ear cup over your ear and then a little bud, for the lack of a different term, that goes into your ear.  I didn't like it.  More comfortable options out there.  The Nuratrue bud, though, for $199, those are a steal.


----------



## erockg

dweaver said:


> Would love a comparison between the loops and the Nuratrue from an audio perspective. Both products are intriguing especially for a 50+ year old who has hearing deficits.


I'm not sure if they updated the Loop to have a gain option.  But I'm in your boat age-wise and wow, the Nuratrue buds get LOUD.  They fit me better and it's nice to lose the wires that the Loop have.  I've had them both.  Both sound great, but for form and function, I would prefer the Nuratrue.


----------



## erockg

sebek said:


> What are the best wireless IEMs for SQ that you have tried?


I think this is a twofold question. Are you looking for IEMs with an adapter that turns it into a true wireless or are you looking for straight up true wireless earbuds?


----------



## erockg

BooleanBones said:


> Those Shures are pretty cool. I like that wired/wireless design.


They sound amazing and all the functions are working flawless so far.  No pops, distortion yada yada.  We shall see how a Quad High Def Drivers sound with the TWS adapters next.  Tomorrow!  Amazon is the devil.


----------



## AudioBomb (Sep 11, 2021)

dweaver said:


> Would love a comparison between the loops and the Nuratrue from an audio perspective. Both products are intriguing especially for a 50+ year old who has hearing deficits.


Well, I've just knew about the Nura Trues after buying the Nuraloops. Unlucky me... From what I've seen the Trues support aptxHD while the loops do not. It seems to be the only major difference. From experience I know that aptxHD sounds noticeably better. Get the Trues. I will try an exchange, hope the store accepts it.


----------



## AudioBomb

erockg said:


> The over the ear Nuraphones felt very weird to me.  It's an ear cup over your ear and then a little bud, for the lack of a different term, that goes into your ear.  I didn't like it.  More comfortable options out there.  The Nuratrue bud, though, for $199, those are a steal.


Thanks man, really helpful. Will get the Trues.


----------



## AudioBomb

But truth be said, even without aptxHD, the loops sound TERRIFIC!!!


----------



## erockg

AudioBomb said:


> Thanks man, really helpful. Will get the Trues.


Happy to help. I had all three models and I think these are the best value. Plus, after the new update where they raise the volume, it’s amazing how much punch they have.  Devialet and B&O EQs are still my go to buds right now, but the Nuratrue always get the love in my rotation 😎


----------



## bladefd (Sep 11, 2021)

AudioBomb said:


> Well, I've just knew about the Nura Trues after buying the Nuraloops. Unlucky me... *From what I've seen the Trues support aptxHD while the loops do not.* It seems to be the only major difference. From experience I know that aptxHD sounds noticeably better. Get the Trues. I will try an exchange, hope the store accepts it.


I think you might have it backwards.

The nuraloop supports aptxhd while nuratrue earbuds only support plain aptx. I recall looking into it on Amazon day when nuraloop was on sale.

Link:
https://help.nuraphone.com/hc/en-us/articles/360004286916


----------



## erockg

bladefd said:


> I think you might have it backwards.
> 
> The nuraloop supports aptxhd while nuratrue earbuds only support plain aptx. I recall looking into it on Amazon day when nuraloop was on sale.
> 
> ...


I’ve had them both (still have the Nuratrue) and yes you are correct but it wasn’t that noticeable to me. I think the kicker here is that Nura has their own personalized EQ sound. It’s awesome. Plus, the immersive bass amazing. The Nuratrue have a 10 mm driver.  I could be wrong but the only bigger one that I remember off the top of my head are the MW series from Master & Dynamic.  I  think 12 mm in the MW08. Pretty wild.  For such a cheap headset the Nuratrue sure do pump out a lot. The soundstage as well as instrument separation is pretty damn good.  ANC in my use is great with a good seal.  Also, the Bluetooth quickswitch works flawlessly.  Perfect when switching between  all my stupid wfh Zoom calls and phone calls every day 🤮


----------



## dweaver (Sep 11, 2021)

I think BladeFD might be correct about APTxHD. Having said that I am a Samsung user so don't get HD unfortunately. Having owned an LG with HD in the past, it definitely sounds better than just APTx.


----------



## AudioBomb (Sep 11, 2021)

bladefd said:


> I think you might have it backwards.
> 
> The nuraloop supports aptxhd while nuratrue earbuds only support plain aptx. I recall looking into it on Amazon day when nuraloop was on sale.
> 
> ...


Dude, here I just see aptx. Galaxy S10+


----------



## erockg

AudioBomb said:


> Dude, here I just see aptx.


They call out HD on their website.  Either way, the Nuratrue are a much better set.  Just my lonely worthless opinion


----------



## dweaver

AudioBomb said:


> Dude, here I just see aptx. Galaxy S10+


Samsung does not support HD which is why your only seeing APTx, I love my Samsung for a lot of things but in this area they are inferior unfortunately.


----------



## cresny

erockg said:


> I’ve had them both (still have the Nuratrue) and yes you are correct but it wasn’t that noticeable to me. I think the kicker here is that Nura has their own personalized EQ sound. It’s awesome. Plus, the immersive bass amazing. The Nuratrue have a 10 mm driver.  I could be wrong but the only bigger one that I remember off the top of my head are the MW series from Master & Dynamic.  I  think 12 mm in the MW08. Pretty wild.


Actually the Samsung Galaxy Beans, AKA Buds Live, have a 12mm driver and they sound like Beans, so there's that. But yeah, done right it does make a difference.


----------



## sebek

erockg said:


> I think this is a twofold question. Are you looking for IEMs with an adapter that turns it into a true wireless or are you looking for straight up true wireless earbuds?


True wireless earbuds!

Would be the first I buy, for an excellent SQ I am willing to spend.

I was looking mostly sony wf-1000xm4 because it is full of great reviews around.


----------



## AudioBomb (Sep 11, 2021)

Ahh, it's quite simple on Samsung phones:

https://www.getdroidtips.com/enable-aptx-hd-on-any-android-device/​
And yeah, I was wrong, auraloops support aptxHD 

I'm a happy camper now


----------



## AudioBomb

sebek said:


> True wireless earbuds!
> 
> Would be the first I buy, for an excellent SQ I am willing to spend.
> 
> I was looking mostly sony wf-1000xm4 because it is full of great reviews around.


Piece of junk compared to Aura Auraloops or Aura True, dude.


----------



## dweaver

Thanks for the link, I will look into that, would be great to be able to enable HD, I have a couple HD headphones that would be nice to get their full value from.


----------



## AudioBomb (Sep 11, 2021)

dweaver said:


> Thanks for the link, I will look into that, would be great to be able to enable HD, I have a couple HD headphones that would be nice to get their full value from.


You're welcome and this is very simple. I'm no teckie and just did it.

I remember doing this in the past.


----------



## BooleanBones

sebek said:


> True wireless earbuds!
> 
> Would be the first I buy, for an excellent SQ I am willing to spend.
> 
> I was looking mostly sony wf-1000xm4 because it is full of great reviews around.


I have the xm4s, and while I like the utilitarian aspect of them and they do sound pretty good with different tips (I use Final TWS tips), there are better out there for SQ. The overall package is why I keep ahold of mine.


----------



## AudioBomb (Sep 11, 2021)

BooleanBones said:


> I have the xm4s, and while I like the utilitarian aspect of them and they do sound pretty good with different tips (I use Final TWS tips), there are better out there for SQ. The overall package is why I keep ahold of mine.


They sound good, but when one listens to something like the Nuras, man... It's the soundstage, the bass, the mids, the separation, imaging, pretty much everything. It's consumer grade vs audiophile grade.


----------



## BooleanBones

AudioBomb said:


> They sound good, but when one listens to something like the Auras, man... It's the soundstage, the bass, the mids, the separation, imaging, pretty much everything. It's consumer grade vs audiophile grade.


When you say Auras, do you mean the Nuras?


----------



## AudioBomb (Sep 11, 2021)

BooleanBones said:


> When you say Auras, do you mean the Nuras?


lol. Sorry, yes, Nura. It's my Aura that is shining today.


----------



## TK33

erockg said:


> They sound amazing and all the functions are working flawless so far.  No pops, distortion yada yada.  We shall see how a Quad High Def Drivers sound with the TWS adapters next.  Tomorrow!  Amazon is the devil.


Curious about your thoughts. All this talk about the TW2 has caused me to dig my SE846s out of the drawer.  They have been quite neglected since I haven't been commuting.


----------



## AudioBomb (Sep 12, 2021)

TK33 said:


> Curious about your thoughts. All this talk about the TW2 has caused me to dig my SE846s out of the drawer.  They have been quite neglected since I haven't been commuting.


Funny that for me, Nuras sound way better than SE846 (with FiiO M15) 

There's something so wrong about those SE846...

But even worse can sound the Campfire Audio ATLAS. My God they're so bad...

2 worst IEMs I've heard. lol. Oh no, forgot AAW Canary. That's a joke


----------



## erockg

TK33 said:


> Curious about your thoughts. All this talk about the TW2 has caused me to dig my SE846s out of the drawer.  They have been quite neglected since I haven't been commuting.


I'll have them tomorrow and will report back!


----------



## krenzler

Interesting new product from Ifi - looking forward to feedback on functionality and reliability. Price is $200.

https://ifi-audio.com/products/go-blu/


----------



## Cevisi

Hi does anybody has experience with the galaxy buds 2 in terms of sleeping with them ?


----------



## ZiGFi (Sep 19, 2021)

Here's are my thoughts of the Beoplay EQ after a few days of use. They are not perfect but I think they're the best I've tried so far.

I've bought them bundled with the Beoplay charger, sold it the next day and I've been able to cut down the price to 300 EUR. Well, they're still expensive in my oppinion but bearable.

*Build quality and fit*: the build quality is good, I really like the size of the case and the materials they've used.
The shape is not the best, they are not a perfect fit for me and they're a bit bulky. I find the XM4 more confortable.

*Sound quality*: the overal sound signature lean towards a neutral reproduction and a balanced sound (in the in ear true wireles segment to be clear), the intruments separation is very good, the soundstage is more than decent, the voices are being reproduced very well. The bass is clean and well controlled but a bit too shy for my taste. EQ helps but it doesn't do wonders. They shine on acoustic, instrumental music and less on electronic and rock.
Comparing them with the XM4 they are in completely different league, from the TWS that I've personally tried only the PI7 can compete with them. The PI7s' have richer base and are louder but I coudn't accept the poor battery life (the bluetooth streaming from their case is a big plus though)

*ANC: *Not the best but it get's the job done. It doesn't block all the noise, like cars passing on the street while being on the sidewalk but it's good enough for me not to complain.

*Call quality: *Here is were I got issues in the past with B&O headphones, like the Beoplay HX wich I had to return it because of the poor call quality.
Well, the calls have a good quality and the people on the other end could hear me well. Pfew!
Later edit: Forgot to mention something important here: when you use them for calls it switches automatically to the “Own voice” mode so you can hear yourself - to feel more natural. Of course, you can toggle between natural and anc if you want.

*Battery: *the battery life sems to be fine but I find it strange that the L and R earphone are not discharging the same way.
The % goes down faster in the L earpiece at the beginning but the R one catches up after a while and goes dows even more than the L one. But there are only a few percentages difference between them at all times.
After 3 hours of listening on high volume they went down to approximately 60%.

*Things that I don't like: *

They do not support multipoint connection - that's my biggest complaint
Even that I like the case, it's not perfect. It doesn't close all the way and I don't like the feeling of the hinge, I wish it was stronger.
ANC picks up wind noise, it's bearable but you can notice it. Later edit: Not sure if it's the ANC or the actual noise made by the wind when hitting the case, because I can hear the wind with ANC off.
The volume: I need to keep them at 90% almost all the time so they can feel alive.
The app even that has a simple layout, it's a pain to use. It always needs to reconnect when I need to use it and it doesn't have a switch between ANC, Transparency and Normal. Now I get it why people buy the earpods pro, the integrations is seamless.
Some other notes: I use them mostly on my iPhone with AAC and I found that connecting them to my Bluesound PowerNode using aptX I can hear some subtle differences.
The volume is higher and the sound seems to be a little deeper. It's subtle but it's definitely there. Android users seem to benefit them more than iPhone users.
Also I noticed that the volume is track dependant. I use Tidal Master and some tracks have higher volume than others. On some of the tracks I need to lower the volume because it gets too loud after 90%.

PS: I didn't get the poping noise (at least yet) the other users were complaining about.


----------



## BooleanBones

ZiGFi said:


> Here's are my thoughts of the Beoplay EQ after a few days of use. They are not perfect but I think they're the best I've tried so far.
> 
> I've bought them bundled with the Beoplay charger, sold it the next day and I've been able to cut down the price to 300 EUR. Well, they're still expensive in my oppinion but bearable.
> 
> ...


I sent my set back and will wait to see if they adjust the volume levels before repurchasing. Great to hear the positive trend in the subtle pop being absent. Great  observations and notes.


----------



## scubaphish

There seem to be a number of Gemini users here, hi. Am I only one curious how others have their eq set?  Here’s mine if anyone interested  

I didn’t think I’d have my bass leveled up, but there’s a bass guitar tone that just seems to live there


----------



## ilatimer1

Can someone please give me some advice on EQ settings for the MW08s? I'm no expert when it comes to using EQ settings. I find the MW08s a little overwhelming on the bass. I listen to mostly hard rock and metal. Any suggestions would be highly appreciated!


----------



## cresny

scubaphish said:


> There seem to be a number of Gemini users here, hi. Am I only one curious how others have their eq set?  Here’s mine if anyone interested
> 
> I didn’t think I’d have my bass leveled up, but there’s a bass guitar tone that just seems to live there


I'm usually listening with ANC, and I think that already has an applied V-shaped profile, so I just leave the actual EQ at flat. If Devialet ever adds the ability to go neutral with controls I might try messing around with it, but for now I only EQ my brain.


----------



## scubaphish

ilatimer1 said:


> Can someone please give me some advice on EQ settings for the MW08s? I'm no expert when it comes to using EQ settings. I find the MW08s a little overwhelming on the bass. I listen to mostly hard rock and metal. Any suggestions would be highly appreciated!


WRT the left three bands, kind of opposite what I have in mine above. Try moving left bands down and see how sound reacts.


----------



## toodles1978

Apologies if this has been covered in the 2490 pages before hand but, I have tried various true wireless iems and will say.. anker 
/ sound core will cover most of the expectations of anyone looking to go true wireless at a fraction of the cost of sony wm etc etc


----------



## Luke Skywalker

erockg said:


> B&O EQ, Nuratrue, Klipsch T5 II ANC McLaren, or as of today, the Shure Aonic 215 Gen 2.  They fixed all the bad things about the previous version.  So much that stupid me just dropped the cash to upgrade the IEMs on them to the SE846s.  Ugh.
> 
> May the force be with you.


Thank you my friend   I think I'll buy all 4.  Two questions: 
1. I've been reading about some bugs / firmware issues for the B&O's.  Do you know if they're resolved or should I wait a bit for buying? 
2. Would the Shure sound good with the included earphones?  I already have my Lola's connected to the UTSW3 adapters and might buy a high end of IEMs here in a few months. 

Thanks again


----------



## erockg

Luke Skywalker said:


> Thank you my friend   I think I'll buy all 4.  Two questions:
> 1. I've been reading about some bugs / firmware issues for the B&O's.  Do you know if they're resolved or should I wait a bit for buying?
> 2. Would the Shure sound good with the included earphones?  I already have my Lola's connected to the UTSW3 adapters and might buy a high end of IEMs here in a few months.
> 
> Thanks again


My first pair of EQs had a strange pop sound on certain tracks but only in the left bud.  I returned them and got a new set Friday.  No issues so far.  I truly do love them.

The Shures sound great with the included SE215s but now you can EQ them which makes them sound even better.  That said, I ordered the SE846 which have 4 drivers.  They should be here today and I'll post some observations.  I had the last gen Fiio adapter and the Shure app really makes a difference.  I don't know if many IEMs will fit the Shure adapters like they do the UTSW3s and the like.  Hit or miss.


----------



## Tenlow

ilatimer1 said:


> Can someone please give me some advice on EQ settings for the MW08s? I'm no expert when it comes to using EQ settings. I find the MW08s a little overwhelming on the bass. I listen to mostly hard rock and metal. Any suggestions would be highly appreciated!


The MW08 have an elevated bass hump between 50 and roughly 500 hz, so I would in your case try to lower the 63, 125, 250 sliders a bit (2 or 4db maybe) and see how you like it or what works best for you. I really like their elevated bass even though I would welcome an EQ in the M&D app as well. I think on the go (which is what they are primarily designed for) an elevated bass region helps the sound as the bass easily gets lost a bit otherwise. At home though, it might be a bit too much bass for some, I can see that.


----------



## Luke Skywalker

I think I’ll grab the Klipsch first.  I used to have some giant speakers over 20 years ago and man those things were awesome.

amazon has them listed at $271 but out of stock. I have to question that price since Crutchfield and Klipsch have them listed at $379


----------



## erockg

Luke Skywalker said:


> I think I’ll grab the Klipsch first.  I used to have some giant speakers over 20 years ago and man those things were awesome.
> 
> amazon has them listed at $271 but out of stock. I have to question that price since Crutchfield and Klipsch have them listed at $379


Ah bummer.  $271 is a great price.  Amazon does that sometimes.  I think Klipsch raised all their prices by 10% recently.  I paid $349 for mine on Crutchfield when they first came out.


----------



## erockg

erockg said:


> Ah bummer.  $271 is a great price.  Amazon does that sometimes.  I think Klipsch raised all their prices by 10% recently.  I paid $349 for mine on Crutchfield when they first came out.


World Wide Stereo also sells the standard ANC version on eBay heavily discounted.  It's open box.  https://www.ebay.com/itm/144157595718


----------



## BooleanBones

erockg said:


> World Wide Stereo also sells the standard ANC version on eBay heavily discounted.  It's open box.  https://www.ebay.com/itm/144157595718


Yep, same thing without the charging pad and the cosmetics. Also has their 30 day return policy. They are probably one of the sellers of them on Amazon as well.


----------



## scubaphish

cresny said:


> I'm usually listening with ANC, and I think that already has an applied V-shaped profile, so I just leave the actual EQ at flat. If Devialet ever adds the ability to go neutral with controls I might try messing around with it, but for now I only EQ my brain.


I’ve been listening with ANC off in the house, mostly so I have a better chance of hearing my wife trying to get my attention; but since I don’t hear her in either case, I think I’ll try flat EQ with ANC on for a little while, thanks. Wonder which eats up more battery, ANC vs boosted EQ


----------



## iFi audio

krenzler said:


> Interesting new product from Ifi - looking forward to feedback on functionality and reliability. Price is $200.
> 
> https://ifi-audio.com/products/go-blu/



Yes, it's our latest baby and wireless indeed


----------



## Luke Skywalker

erockg said:


> World Wide Stereo also sells the standard ANC version on eBay heavily discounted.  It's open box.  https://www.ebay.com/itm/144157595718


Nice!  I’m guessing the McLaren is superior to the standard model though right?  Not just a cool name?


----------



## BooleanBones

Luke Skywalker said:


> Nice!  I’m guessing the McLaren is superior to the standard model though right?  Not just a cool name?


Cosmetically it’s different. The sound should be the same. They are just spiffier looking and come with a charging pad along with a different case


----------



## AudioBomb (Sep 12, 2021)

Have just ordered Nuraphone.

After listening to Nuraloop I'm sold. This is one of the best IEMs (including wired) I've heard.


----------



## jsmiller58

iFi audio said:


> Yes, it's our latest baby and wireless indeed


Wow that looks like a handsome and capable BT dongle…!


----------



## nekonhime

So which sound better between the nuratrue and the klipsch T5II anc?


----------



## erockg

Luke Skywalker said:


> Nice!  I’m guessing the McLaren is superior to the standard model though right?  Not just a cool name?


I think they're the same buds, different color scheme.  The case is much lighter than the standard and is carbon fiber with a cool tire tread.  Plus, you get a nice dual Qi charging pad that I actually used every day.  Depends on what you're willing to spend.  I like the case better for the McLaren personally.


----------



## erockg

nekonhime said:


> So which sound better between the nuratrue and the klipsch T5II anc?


Different strokes for different folks.  You'd have to try them.  I have both and enjoy both.


----------



## dasadab

scubaphish said:


> There seem to be a number of Gemini users here, hi. Am I only one curious how others have their eq set?  Here’s mine if anyone interested
> 
> I didn’t think I’d have my bass leveled up, but there’s a bass guitar tone that just seems to live there


Thanks. I’ll try it!


----------



## dasadab

AudioBomb said:


> Have just ordered Nuraphone.
> 
> After listening to Nuraloop I'm sold. This is one of the best IEMs (including wired) I've heard.


I will look forward to your comments, if you wouldn’t mind. I’m always looking for a lightweight pair of headphones that I can walk around with.


----------



## nekonhime

erockg said:


> Different strokes for different folks.  You'd have to try them.  I have both and enjoy both.


Sound like my wallet gonna beg me to stop there


----------



## AudioBomb (Sep 12, 2021)

dasadab said:


> I will look forward to your comments, if you wouldn’t mind. I’m always looking for a lightweight pair of headphones that I can walk around with.


Sure, man, I'll let you guys know. Pretty sure in advance that the Nuraphone will sound even better, which is kind of a dream come true for a Bluetooth headphone. These things can sound like 500€+ IEMs (I've had 1000€+ and high-end DAPs). Satisfaction so far is pretty close.

I don't understand where these guys get a DAC/Amp this good from at this price! It's unbeleavable the SQ of this headphone.


----------



## nekonhime

AudioBomb said:


> Sure, man, I'll let you guys know. Pretty sure in advance that the Nuraphone will sound even better, which is kind of a dream come true for a Bluetooth headphone. These things can sound like 500€+ IEMs (I've had 1000€+ and high-end DAPs). Satisfaction so far is pretty close.
> 
> I don't understand where these guys get a DAC/Amp this good from at this price! It's unbeleavable the SQ of this headphone.


I will take your words and order the nuratrue then


----------



## AudioBomb

nekonhime said:


> I will take your words and order the nuratrue then


This is something I would recommend with my eyes closed.

Have I read some member saying that the nuraloops sound better than nuratrue? Or was it the opposite?


----------



## nekonhime

AudioBomb said:


> This is something I would recommend with my eyes closed.
> 
> Have I read some member saying that the nuraloops sound better than nuratrue? Or was it the opposite?


The opposite


----------



## AudioBomb

nekonhime said:


> The opposite


I didn't know about any nuratrue when I bought nuraloops. But that's even better for you


----------



## nekonhime

AudioBomb said:


> I didn't know about any nuratrue when I bought nuraloops. But that's even better for you


I have the 1000xm4 and mw08 ready to compete lol. I can't wait lol


----------



## clerkpalmer

erockg said:


> Different strokes for different folks.  You'd have to try them.  I have both and enjoy both.


How's the fit on the nuras?


----------



## erockg

clerkpalmer said:


> How's the fit on the nuras?


I’m happy with them. I put on some epro tips and then use the large wing tips and they sit nicely in my ears.  Very light.


----------



## clerkpalmer

erockg said:


> I’m happy with them. I put on some epro tips and then use the large wing tips and they sit nicely in my ears.  Very light.


Thanks. Never tried epro. Is there a specific type?


----------



## bladefd (Sep 12, 2021)

clerkpalmer said:


> Thanks. Never tried epro. Is there a specific type?


TW00 is universal afaik. I got it for MT last week - it's very good.

https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B08LPV19KK


----------



## erockg

bladefd said:


> TW00 is universal afaik. I got it for MT last week - it's very good.
> 
> https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B08LPV19KK


Yup.  These are them.


----------



## erockg

clerkpalmer said:


> Thanks. Never tried epro. Is there a specific type?


The ones recommended above are them. They do come with a bunch of tips and even foam tips which work very well.


----------



## Tommy C

toodles1978 said:


> Apologies if this has been covered in the 2490 pages before hand but, I have tried various true wireless iems and will say.. anker
> / sound core will cover most of the expectations of anyone looking to go true wireless at a fraction of the cost of sony wm etc etc


Although I don't have experience with Soundcore other than the new L2P+ that I got last week I can say that technically they are excellent. 
I don't know how the original L2P sound but the new version is very capable. 

The key with these IMO is the HearID which can also be customized and be mixed with your proffered preset, so pretty nifty. 
Will be very interesting to do a comparison between the Nuratrue and the L2P+.

I was playing around with them today and was able to achieve a pretty close sound to the UE900 using the HearID and the advanced settings which is really impressive. 
The EQ is very responsive you can make them sound balanced and clear and even thin, or warm, punchy and immersive and everything in between.


----------



## AudioBomb (Sep 13, 2021)

nekonhime said:


> I have the 1000xm4 and mw08 ready to compete lol. I can't wait lol


I can tell you with 100% confidence that these are much superior to  SONY 1000x M4. There's no comparison.

The M4 sounds like a 250€ phone, these sound like a 500€+ phone. That's the difference. These are even good for studio monitoring.


----------



## AudioBomb

clerkpalmer said:


> How's the fit on the nuras?


In my case seal is great but they're not comfy.


----------



## BigZ12

My Beats Flex sound on par, or even better than my most expensive TWS, the MW08S.
So still not there yet.


----------



## HaliHarry

How is Nuratrue's sound signatrue? They focus on bass, vocal or treble ???


----------



## Tenlow

BigZ12 said:


> My Beats Flex sound on par, or even better than my most expensive TWS, the MW08S.
> So still not there yet.


My wife happens to have the Beats Flex and I own the MW08S. I cannot relate at all to your opinion interestingly enough but I still find it fascinating to see how differently we all perceive things apparently


----------



## Juturna

AudioBomb said:


> I didn't know about any nuratrue when I bought nuraloops. But that's even better for you


I look forward to hearing your take on the Nuraloops vs Nuratrue later on then, because if the Nuraloops sound better than the Nuratrue I could consider getting them. 
I've heard the Nuratrue and while they sounded like a $199-250 earbud I'm not sure if I'm hearing the $500 you're being all hypebeast about for the Nuraloops.


----------



## AudioBomb

Nura Trues here, the store accepted the return of the Nuraloops. Much much more comfy, will test them now.

Nuraphone by the end of the week, I hope.


----------



## AudioBomb

Juturna said:


> I look forward to hearing your take on the Nuraloops vs Nuratrue later on then, because if the Nuraloops sound better than the Nuratrue I could consider getting them.
> I've heard the Nuratrue and while they sounded like a $199-250 earbud I'm not sure if I'm hearing the $500 you're being all hypebeast about for the Nuraloops.


You need to play well with Nuraapp, seal, etc.


----------



## AudioBomb

Nuraloops sound much better, God damn.


----------



## AudioBomb

AudioBomb said:


> Nuraloops sound much better, God damn.


Sorry, bad configuration, but they dont sound any better than nuraloops.


----------



## AudioBomb (Sep 13, 2021)

Maybe a bit more 3D, better imaging, but the nuraloops bass is unbeatable. They had 30 hours burn in though.


----------



## chinmie

AudioBomb said:


> Nuraloops sound much better, God damn.



this is between the nuraloop and the nuratrue, right?
interesting, i've been eyeing out for the nuraloops for some time..i might try one out.
one question though, i noticed the nuraloop can be used as wired earphones, does it also have the same sound between wired and wireless mode? also does it need to be turned on in wired mode?


----------



## clerkpalmer

Has anyone noticed a change in SQ for the MW08 after the firmware update?  I'm not sure if I'm getting used to them or what but the bass seems less pronounced.  They sound more balanced and the mid-bass bleed isn't noticeable.  They somewhat suddenly sound very good to my ears.  I am back to stock tips which seem to fit me best.


----------



## AudioBomb

Not planning to use it wired  sorry


----------



## Tenlow

clerkpalmer said:


> Has anyone noticed a change in SQ for the MW08 after the firmware update?  I'm not sure if I'm getting used to them or what but the bass seems less pronounced.  They sound more balanced and the mid-bass bleed isn't noticeable.  They somewhat suddenly sound very good to my ears.  I am back to stock tips which seem to fit me best.


They always sounded very good to me. I absolutely love their sound profile. Not sure about the update, though. I only know that they're way bass heavier in Max ANC mode than in All Day ANC or ANC off modes. I never use Max ANC as that's a bit too bass heavy for my taste but in the other modes the sound is so fun and engaging - exactly what I want my TWS to sound like


----------



## erockg

chinmie said:


> this is between the nuraloop and the nuratrue, right?
> interesting, i've been eyeing out for the nuraloops for some time..i might try one out.
> one question though, i noticed the nuraloop can be used as wired earphones, does it also have the same sound between wired and wireless mode? also does it need to be turned on in wired mode?


If you're a TWS junkie like most of us, I would pass on the Nuraloop and get the Nuratrue.  The Nuraloop uses a proprietary cable to charge and the fit can be temperamental (at least for me).  Yes, the sound is great, but the Nuratrue are definitely not that far behind.  I've had them both.  Pay the extra $50 and get the newer buds.  Just my two cents...


----------



## Tommy C

erockg said:


> If you're a TWS junkie like most of us, I would pass on the Nuraloop and get the Nuratrue.  The Nuraloop uses a proprietary cable to charge and the fit can be temperamental (at least for me).  Yes, the sound is great, but the Nuratrue are definitely not that far behind.  I've had them both.  Pay the extra $50 and get the newer buds.  Just my two cents...


Does the app have EQ for the Nuratrue? One review on Amazon says there is no equalizer but I find it odd.


----------



## erockg

Tommy C said:


> Does the app have EQ for the Nuratrue? One review on Amazon says there is no equalizer but I find it odd.


it's Nura's Personalized Sound.  Once you set it up, you can't EQ it, only increase and decrease it's intensity.  You can read on their website:https://www.nuraphone.com/products/...m4cUdLP36Bg_JRNEr9ReBMLo3n2vud5hoC3yAQAvD_BwE.


----------



## BigZ12

Tenlow said:


> They always sounded very good to me. I absolutely love their sound profile. Not sure about the update, though. I only know that they're way bass heavier in Max ANC mode than in All Day ANC or ANC off modes. I never use Max ANC as that's a bit too bass heavy for my taste but in the other modes the sound is so fun and engaging - exactly what I want my TWS to sound like


But again, they've ruined the mics... People I talk to complain...


----------



## Tenlow

BigZ12 said:


> But again, they've ruined the mics... People I talk to complain...


True but it's nothing that cannot be undone rather sooner than later hopefully.


----------



## jant71

So, we now know what the Senn CX Plus is.




Takes the MTW 2 and adds Adaptive and True Wireless mirroring in a smaller size. 8 hours/24 hours total. 10 minutes for 1 hour quick charge. 5.2, IPX4, 6 grams each side. App has Bass boost, Movie and Podcast settings and touch control customization. Ambient and 2 beamform mics on each side. $179 on Sept. 28th for the black and white in October.


----------



## erockg

BigZ12 said:


> But again, they've ruined the mics... People I talk to complain...


Stay away for now.  No sense in spending $300 + on them until the issue is sorted.  I had two diff pair with issues and just got a refund.  They also have great customer support, so it was easy.  I might revisit later, but for now, other options out there without these issues.  Sad but true.


----------



## clerkpalmer

erockg said:


> Stay away for now.  No sense in spending $300 + on them until the issue is sorted.  I had two diff pair with issues and just got a refund.  They also have great customer support, so it was easy.  I might revisit later, but for now, other options out there without these issues.  Sad but true.


I've been using mine for work and no one has complained.   Someone send me their number and we can do a test ....


----------



## erockg

clerkpalmer said:


> I've been using mine for work and no one has complained.   Someone send me their number and we can do a test ....


555-1212.  Which model and what firmware version?  Maybe your co-workers are nicer than mine?


----------



## clerkpalmer

erockg said:


> 555-1212.  Which model and what firmware version?  Maybe your co-workers are nicer than mine?


MW08 standard.  V4.4.5.


----------



## jsmiller58

clerkpalmer said:


> I've been using mine for work and no one has complained.   Someone send me their number and we can do a test ....


867-5309…


----------



## erockg

Received my Shure SE846s and put them on on my Shure Aonic 215 gen 2 adapters.  Wow.  The SE846s aren't bass heavy in IMO (not supposed to be) but the fit, passive noise isolation, soundstage, instrument separation etc. really really great.  Don't get me wrong, they DO have bass.  But it's tight, clear and punchy.  Even better after a tiny bit of bass EQ.  I'll be using these all day, testing on Zoom calls, the usual deal.  Definitely the best sounding of my lot (4 drivers), but $$$.  I listen to mostly hard rock and metal all day (obsessed with the new Iron Maiden), and I'm a very happy camper.  Hearing things in the mixes that these old ears have never heard before.  Having zero issues with the Shure gen 2 adapters, whereas I had a ton of issues with the gen 1.


----------



## erockg

jsmiller58 said:


> 867-5309…


I just fell off my dinosaur and broke my wooden underwear.


----------



## jsmiller58

erockg said:


> I just fell off my dinosaur and broke my wooden underwear.


😂


----------



## rhsauer

clerkpalmer said:


> I've been using mine for work and no one has complained.   Someone send me their number and we can do a test ....


The easiest way to test the mic is just to record a voice memo.  You should be able hear the issue with the microphones pretty easily.  Since the ANC depends on the mics, I'm also wondering if ANC has been negatively impacted.  This is very frustrating because I had just found tips that work well with these earphones (ePro horns) and decided they would be my daily driver -- and now a firmware update seems to have screwed up the mics.


----------



## BooleanBones

erockg said:


> 555-1212.





jsmiller58 said:


> 867-5309…


I just called you both and no answer on both lines


----------



## pitch_black

erockg said:


> I agree. The EQs do not have very many issues. Just the main issue of the popping sound we both had.  Seriously considering picking up the sand color to see if they have the same popping sound. Someone stop me!


Even now after I discovered myself in this one track, I’ll still don’t hear it in my other tracks I usually listen to. Also I switched ANC off most of the time - just in case till it get fixed.
Yeah it’s a bug 🐜 but it’s a much less severe bug I had with the WFXM3 for month. Also the crap/pop while unlock the iPhone with the Apple Watch is gone…


----------



## erockg

rhsauer said:


> The easiest way to test the mic is just to record a voice memo.  You should be able hear the issue with the microphones pretty easily.  Since the ANC depends on the mics, I'm also wondering if ANC has been negatively impacted.  This is very frustrating because I had just found tips that work well with these earphones (ePro horns) and decided they would be my daily driver -- and now a firmware update seems to have screwed up the mics.


Yep.  That's what I did.  I do that every time I get a new set of TWS.  It's my phone call test


----------



## erockg

BooleanBones said:


> I just called you both and no answer on both lines


New phone, who dis?

Yeah, I'll stop.


----------



## erockg

pitch_black said:


> Even now after I discovered myself in this one track, I’ll still don’t hear it in my other tracks I usually listen to. Also I switched ANC off most of the time - just in case till it get fixed.
> Yeah it’s a bug 🐜 but it’s a much less severe bug I had with the WFXM3 for month. Also the crap/pop while unlock the iPhone with the Apple Watch is gone…


I think like 20 pages back, yes, I exaggerate, I picked up a new pair at the B&O store here.  No issues so far!  Well, there is one, but I'm still determining if it's just how they work or if I have a real issue.


----------



## clerkpalmer (Sep 13, 2021)

clerkpalmer said:


> MW08 standard.  V4.4.5.


Low and behold a new update just arrived.  Downloading.  Edit - false alarm.  Appears to be a bug.


----------



## erockg

clerkpalmer said:


> Low and behold a new update just arrived.  Downloading.  Edit - false alarm.  Appears to be a bug.


Dammit, Jim.


----------



## AudioBomb (Sep 13, 2021)

Nura True and Nuraloops are 2 different sounding headphones. Im still getting used to Trues sound, its bigger soundstage but apparantelly less tight bass. I was more impressed with the loops,  their accuracy, how easy it was to pinpoint instruments, but think the Trues need some aclimatization time and if such thing really exists, playing time (aka burn-in). But loops are top on the list for now.


----------



## TK33

erockg said:


> Received my Shure SE846s and put them on on my Shure Aonic 215 gen 2 adapters.  Wow.  The SE846s aren't bass heavy in IMO (not supposed to be) but the fit, passive noise isolation, soundstage, instrument separation etc. really really great.  Don't get me wrong, they DO have bass.  But it's tight, clear and punchy.  Even better after a tiny bit of bass EQ.  I'll be using these all day, testing on Zoom calls, the usual deal.  Definitely the best sounding of my lot (4 drivers), but $$$.  I listen to mostly hard rock and metal all day (obsessed with the new Iron Maiden), and I'm a very happy camper.  Hearing things in the mixes that these old ears have never heard before.  Having zero issues with the Shure gen 2 adapters, whereas I had a ton of issues with the gen 1.


Thanks for posting and for being the guinea pig.  I think there is a TW2 in my future and a stop at B&H the next time I am in the city.  Only question is which IEMs do I use them with (425, 535, second set of 846? Where is the Aonic 8??).  I may end up just putting the 425s on them since they were always my work IEMs.

I really like the SE846 with the ADI-2 DAC FS and Dragonfly Cobalt so have always stuck to wired for those.  I have also been stopping myself from ordering a second set and trying to wait for a successor (if there ever is one).  That is how much I enjoy them for all the reasons you noted.  They have plenty of bass for me and sound very natural to me.  I get that they are not everyone's cup of tea but I am very treble sensitive and find these to sound very natural to my ears.  The SE846 is very sensitive and picky so you need an amp with a very low output impedance. Glad to hear they work well with the TW2.


----------



## erockg

TK33 said:


> Thanks for posting and for being the guinea pig.  I think there is a TW2 in my future and a stop at B&H the next time I am in the city.  Only question is which IEMs do I use them with (425, 535, second set of 846? Where is the Aonic 8??).  I may end up just putting the 425s on them since they were always my work IEMs.
> 
> I really like the SE846 with the ADI-2 DAC FS and Dragonfly Cobalt so have always stuck to wired for those.  I have also been stopping myself from ordering a second set and trying to wait for a successor (if there ever is one).  That is how much I enjoy them for all the reasons you noted.  They have plenty of bass for me and sound very natural to me.  I get that they are not everyone's cup of tea but I am very treble sensitive and find these to sound very natural to my ears.  The SE846 is very sensitive and picky so you need an amp with a very low output impedance. Glad to hear they work well with the TW2.


Yeah, I'm really impressed with the setup so far.  I had the Moondrop Blessing 2 but they just never fit in the case with the Shure adapters.  These do, obviously.  Those MB2s were great for sure.  I prefer this Shure setup and fit.  Over-researched  before getting the 846s.  I read the Aonic 5s are eh and the 425, 535 aren't what the 846 are, so I bit the bullet.  Sadly no 8s.  I don't think the 846s were meant for our home listening, more for live sound, but that's okay, I'm very happy!  Put on some Etymotic double flange tips I had and they really shine.  Transparency and the mics work great indoors when needed.  Haven't gone outdoors with them yet.  Mind you, I'm only using an iPhone 12 all day with these.  

Can't you just hot swap yours or is that a pain?

I don't know if B&H has them yet.  They're always late to the party it seems when it comes to some of these brands.  Every time I want to buy from them it says "coming soon."  I got mine from Shure directly.  They shipped same day.  Although, I think Amazon has them now.


----------



## TK33 (Sep 13, 2021)

erockg said:


> Yeah, I'm really impressed with the setup so far.  I had the Moondrop Blessing 2 but they just never fit in the case with the Shure adapters.  These do, obviously.  Those MB2s were great for sure.  I prefer this Shure setup and fit.  Over-researched  before getting the 846s.  I read the Aonic 5s are eh and the 425, 535 aren't what the 846 are, so I bit the bullet.  Sadly no 8s.  I don't think the 846s were meant for our home listening, more for live sound, but that's okay, I'm very happy!  Put on some Etymotic double flange tips I had and they really shine.  Transparency and the mics work great indoors when needed.  Haven't gone outdoors with them yet.  Mind you, I'm only using an iPhone 12 all day with these.
> 
> Can't you just hot swap yours or is that a pain?
> 
> I don't know if B&H has them yet.  They're always late to the party it seems when it comes to some of these brands.  Every time I want to buy from them it says "coming soon."  I got mine from Shure directly.  They shipped same day.  Although, I think Amazon has them now.


I can swap and its very easy.  I am just lazy.   Agree with you on the "live sound" point.  I also have 15+ years of brain burn in with Shure IEMs so I am biased on how I feel about these. 

Youre right about B&H...they are preorder only.  I usually try to buy local from Audio 46 or B&H (I live in NY).  Just ordered the TW2 directly from Shure.  Looks like my SE846 will be joining my true wireless rotation.


----------



## erockg

TK33 said:


> I can swap and its very easy.  I am just lazy.   Agree with you on the "live sound" point.  I also have 15+ years of brain burn in with Shure IEMs so I am biased on how I feel about these.
> 
> Youre right about B&H...they are preorder only.  I usually try to buy local from Audio 46 or B&H (I live in NY).  Just ordered the TW2 directly from Shure.  Looks like my SE846 will be joining my true wireless rotation.


Awesome.  Looking forward to hearing what you think.  Ex-East Coaster here.  Born in Queens.  Subway Series all weekend. Yep, lonely die-hard Mets fan in a sea of Yankees fan family members.  Growing up was rough.


----------



## TK33

Just got this email.  Looks like the older Jabra models will be on sale tomorrow (40% off).  Fine print clearly states that the new Elite 3 and 7 models are excluded.


----------



## Luke Skywalker

TK33 said:


> Thanks for posting and for being the guinea pig.  I think there is a TW2 in my future and a stop at B&H the next time I am in the city.  Only question is which IEMs do I use them with (425, 535, second set of 846? Where is the Aonic 8??).  I may end up just putting the 425s on them since they were always my work IEMs.
> 
> I really like the SE846 with the ADI-2 DAC FS and Dragonfly Cobalt so have always stuck to wired for those.  I have also been stopping myself from ordering a second set and trying to wait for a successor (if there ever is one).  That is how much I enjoy them for all the reasons you noted.  They have plenty of bass for me and sound very natural to me.  I get that they are not everyone's cup of tea but I am very treble sensitive and find these to sound very natural to my ears.  The SE846 is very sensitive and picky so you need an amp with a very low output impedance. Glad to hear they work well with the TW2.


I'd be interested in trying these adapters with my JH Lola... They sound pretty incredible already with the UTSW3


----------



## Guidostrunk

Hola folks,

I've been on headfi a while but completely clueless when it comes to these wireless earbuds lol.
Hopefully you can help me. Looking to get my daughter a pair and just had a bad experience with the Sennheiser tws 1. Bought them used and no sound coming from the right ear bud.
Tried all the remedies I found on Google and still no sound.

What I'm looking for is of course great sound quality and reliability. Doesn't matter what brand it is. You know better than me lol.

Cheers!


----------



## Guidostrunk

Anything but airpods lol


----------



## BooleanBones

Guidostrunk said:


> Anything but airpods lol


Any particular features that are a must have outside of SQ? Wireless charging, used for exercise, Noise cancelling, etc.?


----------



## Guidostrunk

BooleanBones said:


> Any particular features that are a must have outside of SQ? Wireless charging, used for exercise, Noise cancelling, etc.?


My daughter will be using them pretty much for school during testing and studies. So SQ and reliability would be top priority. 
Thanks for the reply bro!


----------



## BooleanBones

Guidostrunk said:


> My daughter will be using them pretty much for school during testing and studies. So SQ and reliability would be top priority.
> Thanks for the reply bro!


Almost forgot, any price range your trying to stay within? Sky’s the limit?


----------



## scubaphish

BooleanBones said:


> Almost forgot, any price range your trying to stay within? Sky’s the limit?


Yeah, that’s an important one


----------



## Guidostrunk

BooleanBones said:


> Almost forgot, any price range your trying to stay within? Sky’s the limit?


Less than $300


----------



## BooleanBones

Guidostrunk said:


> Less than $300


I would say the Geminis might be the consensus right at 300$ I have not listened to the Nura Trues, but they have been a hot topic lately. I am partial to my Sony XM4s for all arounders. Klipsch T5s with ANC are right there too, but they can be tricky fitting for some and you have to use their tips. Others will chime in here I’m sure, but I don’t have a ton of exposure in the sub 200$ category.


----------



## Luke Skywalker

BooleanBones said:


> I would say the Geminis might be the consensus right at 300$ I have not listened to the Nura Trues, but they have been a hot topic lately. I am partial to my Sony XM4s for all arounders. Klipsch T5s with ANC are right there too, but they can be tricky fitting for some and you have to use their tips. Others will chime in here I’m sure, but I don’t have a ton of exposure in the sub 200$ category.


Totally agree on the Geminis.  Definitely the best SQ I've had after purchasing 10 different pair.  I'd say the Bose are my 2nd favorite.


----------



## BooleanBones

Luke Skywalker said:


> Totally agree on the Geminis.  Definitely the best SQ I've had after purchasing 10 different pair.  I'd say the Bose are my 2nd favorite.


I didn't even think of Bose. I really like their wingtips, super comfy.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Who makes the geminis?


----------



## BooleanBones

Guidostrunk said:


> Who makes the geminis?


Devialet. Might try the Amazon route for returns if you don’t like them.


----------



## Luke Skywalker (Sep 13, 2021)

erockg said:


> My first pair of EQs had a strange pop sound on certain tracks but only in the left bud.  I returned them and got a new set Friday.  No issues so far.  I truly do love them.
> 
> The Shures sound great with the included SE215s but now you can EQ them which makes them sound even better.  That said, I ordered the SE846 which have 4 drivers.  They should be here today and I'll post some observations.  I had the last gen Fiio adapter and the Shure app really makes a difference.  I don't know if many IEMs will fit the Shure adapters like they do the UTSW3s and the like.  Hit or miss.


Hey Erock, I’m looking on Amazon at the B&O EQ and noticed that their PI7 is the same price and looks pretty sweet

Are the EQs better?

… man am I a dumb@$$. Completely different brand haha


----------



## BooleanBones

Luke Skywalker said:


> Hey Erock, I’m looking on Amazon at the B&O EQ and noticed that their PI7 is the same price and looks pretty sweet
> 
> Are the EQs better?


My vote is yes having owned both. For the same price, the EQs beat the Pi7s in numerous categories.


----------



## AudioBomb (Sep 13, 2021)

I don't like the Nura Trues. This exchange was unfortunate. The sound of  the Nuraloops is more controlled, more accurate, especially the bass, tighter, soundstage is just the right width and depth, way too much on the Trues, sounds weird to me, sound like if they had a "3D effect" applied, which is not my thing, I want those loops back. lol.

Not saying they are not good, they're great, but loops are astonishing.

Faithfully I'll have Nuraphones next week.

**EDIT: *just figured that Samsung's adapt sound was ruining it for the Trues. Liked it with the loops. So yes, it was a config thing. Sounding better. They are very high-res, they deliver detail in spades and have a huge stage compared to most BT headphones. 3D imaging seems to be on a larger scale compared to the Nuraloops, but I still prefer loops presentation and that tight bass. See you next week


----------



## erockg

Luke Skywalker said:


> Hey Erock, I’m looking on Amazon at the B&O EQ and noticed that their PI7 is the same price and looks pretty sweet
> 
> Are the EQs better?
> 
> … man am I a dumb@$$. Completely different brand haha


In my opinion yes, they are better.  I had nothing but issues with my PI7s.  Two different pairs and even the same with the PI5.


----------



## erockg

BooleanBones said:


> My vote is yes having owned both. For the same price, the EQs beat the Pi7s in numerous categories.


Agreed!


----------



## jant71 (Sep 13, 2021)

The new Technics...




https://translate.google.com/transl...cs.com/products/tws/az60/&prev=search&pto=aue


----------



## nekonhime

Can anyone try this eq with the 1000xm4 stock tips and give me their opinions?


----------



## dweaver

AudioBomb said:


> Ahh, it's quite simple on Samsung phones:
> 
> https://www.getdroidtips.com/enable-aptx-hd-on-any-android-device/​
> And yeah, I was wrong, auraloops support aptxHD
> ...





jant71 said:


> The new Technics...
> 
> https://translate.google.com/transl...cs.com/products/tws/az60/&prev=search&pto=aue


Very nice, I have been enjoying the AZ70 lately that AZ60 looks mighty tempting!


----------



## nekonhime

dweaver said:


> Very nice, I have been enjoying the AZ70 lately that AZ60 looks mighty tempting!


Seem like the az60 gonna be 29000 yen (264 usd)


----------



## C_Lindbergh

I wonder if the sound quality is any different between the new Sennheiser CX plus and MTW2.


The only other difference I've seen is that the CX got Aptx adaptive and a different case.

The price will be roughly the same since MTW2s price has dropped quite a bit from the launch price.


----------



## Juturna

C_Lindbergh said:


> I wonder if the sound quality is any different between the new Sennheiser CX plus and MTW2.
> 
> 
> The only other difference I've seen is that the CX got Aptx adaptive and a different case.
> ...


Probably won’t have the hi-res tuning on the CX Plus? Or maybe it will, haven’t read up on it too much


----------



## C_Lindbergh (Sep 14, 2021)

Juturna said:


> Probably won’t have the hi-res tuning on the CX Plus? Or maybe it will, haven’t read up on it too much



No idea, but it will have the "Sennheiser’s TrueResponse transducer" from their new IEM line-up. I'll prob pick these up, I loved everything about the MTW2 except the case, the case for the CX plus is much more to my liking 

I kinda miss Sennheisers app, you can custombize every controller, you can switch devices from your previous pairings, and finally there's an option to pause the music when ambient mode is enabled.


----------



## Juturna

C_Lindbergh said:


> No idea, but it will have the "Sennheiser’s TrueResponse transducer" from their new IEM line-up. I'll prob pick these up, I loved everything about the MTW2 except the case, the case for the CX plus is much more to my liking


Ahh, I really like the case on the MTW2's, except for the size, that is!
I really like the fabric style look and the in-hand feel of it. 
If it only had wireless charging and was a bit smaller i'd love it.

I imagine something like the Airpods Pro case in size and shape (well, a bit bigger if we want the earbuds to actually fit lol) but with that fabric design would be really nice!


----------



## C_Lindbergh (Sep 14, 2021)

Actually you can order the CX plus now from Amazon,  preliminary delivery is by the end of this week for me. Despite every article stating that they'd be released the 28th Sept.

https://www.amazon.de/-/en/dp/B09BB9NTXD?psc=1&smid=A3JWKAKR8XB7XF&ref_=chk_typ_imgToDp

Will be interesting to compare these with my CA MT, I suspect the MT's will have better SQ, but the CX plus will prob be a much better all round TWS thanks to its many impressive featrues for its price.


----------



## C_Lindbergh

Juturna said:


> Ahh, I really like the case on the MTW2's, except for the size, that is!
> I really like the fabric style look and the in-hand feel of it.
> If it only had wireless charging and was a bit smaller i'd love it.
> 
> I imagine something like the Airpods Pro case in size and shape (well, a bit bigger if we want the earbuds to actually fit lol) but with that fabric design would be really nice!



I wasn't a huge fan of the fabric, didn't feel smooth to the touch and it got dirty (it looked premium tho), but I do agree with you on the shape, I much prefer the "pill" shape like the Airpods or these new CX plus over the "oval shape".


----------



## HaliHarry

dweaver said:


> Very nice, I have been enjoying the AZ70 lately that AZ60 looks mighty tempting!


Omg!!! I'm looking for it
Az70 is the best SQ TWS i've heard but housing too big


----------



## pilgrimbilly

nekonhime said:


> Can anyone try this eq with the 1000xm4 stock tips and give me their opinions?


Tried it. Way too much bass for me, even with/especially with my R&B/funk play lists.


----------



## scubaphish

C_Lindbergh said:


> I wasn't a huge fan of the fabric, didn't feel smooth to the touch and it got dirty (it looked premium tho), but I do agree with you on the shape, I much prefer the "pill" shape like the Airpods or these new CX plus over the "oval shape".


On a similar note, anyone with recent experience with the Senheiser CX 400BT? Is it a worthy budget option?  Thanks


----------



## Bobbetybob

scubaphish said:


> On a similar note, anyone with recent experience with the Senheiser CX 400BT? Is it a worthy budget option?  Thanks


I think they sounded good for the price I paid which was about what they're going for now (definitely not worth whatever the original price was £180 or something silly). BUT I have absolutely no idea why Sennheiser think a giant chunky square is a good shape for an IEM, the fit on them was just rubbish for me.


----------



## scubaphish

Bobbetybob said:


> I think they sounded good for the price I paid which was about what they're going for now (definitely not worth whatever the original price was £180 or something silly). BUT I have absolutely no idea why Sennheiser think a giant chunky square is a good shape for an IEM, the fit on them was just rubbish for me.


Thanks a lot, that was my concern. They are very reasonably priced at $90US but fit was where I had worries.


----------



## scubaphish

Luke Skywalker said:


> Totally agree on the Geminis.  Definitely the best SQ I've had after purchasing 10 different pair.  I'd say the Bose are my 2nd favorite.


I’ll add the the Gemini love. Great sound and ANC, and I like the fit. Note to you and your daughter, almost obnoxiously large case. Hasn’t stopped me from making them my go-to earphones, just a solid disclaimer


----------



## Luke Skywalker

erockg said:


> Agreed!


Th


BooleanBones said:


> My vote is yes having owned both. For the same price, the EQs beat the Pi7s in numerous categories.



That‘s great advice thanks!  Only bad part is the EQ seems to be on back order everywhere.  I’m not what you’d call a patient man


----------



## profusion

Any recommendation of TWS sub 100$, with ambient mode?


----------



## BooleanBones

Luke Skywalker said:


> Th
> 
> 
> That‘s great advice thanks!  Only bad part is the EQ seems to be on back order everywhere.  I’m not what you’d call a patient man


If you go direct, they have them on their site and ship super fast/2nd day air. They also have a 30 day no question returns. Good luck.


----------



## Tommy C (Sep 14, 2021)

profusion said:


> Any recommendation of TWS sub 100$, with ambient mode?



I really like the Fiil T1XS. The ambient mode isn't bad at all for my needs and the sound is great and they cost only $30-$50 depends if you can order from Amazon when they have the coupon available.
They are not your typical Chi-Fi brand as they have full app support which is fairly basic but nice.
The sound is more balanced than your usual tuning in this segment. Strong mids with capable bass and smooth highs.
They are tiny and disappear in my ears but YMMV and the case is tiny too.
For me, they seal so well it's better than ANC which I wasn't expecting at all.


----------



## DRuM

profusion said:


> Any recommendation of TWS sub 100$, with ambient mode?


I can only speak for the buds I have with ambient and those are the Creative Outlier Air v3. They have active noise cancellation too which is nothing special but the ambient mode works well.


----------



## scubaphish

Tommy C said:


> I really like the Fiil T1XS. The ambient mode isn't bad at all for my needs and the sound is great and they cost only $30-$50 depends if you can order from Amazon when they have the coupon available.
> They are not your typical Chi-Fi brand as they have full app support which is fairly basic but nice.
> The sound is more balanced than your usual tuning in this segment. Strong mids with capable bass and smooth highs.
> They are tiny and disappear in my ears but YMMV and the case is tiny too.
> For me, they seal so well it's better than ANC which I wasn't expecting at all.


I agree with these points and in fact, if I had a criticism of these buds it’s that the seal is almost too good. They create almost a vacuum in my ear canal that can be a little discomforting. That said, they do sound better than their price point would suggest. Worth trying out


----------



## TK33

FedEx dropped these off this morning, it has probably been about 20 hours since I ordered them from Shure last night.  Put my SE846 on them and charging them up so I can take them with me when I head out to the city in a few hours.  Perfect day to test them.

They were much heavier than I was expecting and feels heavier than my current portable SE846 setup, which includes my Dragonfly Cobalt and adapters in the case.  That is fine as this will be my office setup anyway. Actually makes me kind of excited about taking the train in today.


----------



## scubaphish

TK33 said:


> FedEx dropped these off this morning, it has probably been about 20 hours since I ordered them from Shure last night.  Put my SE846 on them and charging them up so I can take them with me when I head out to the city in a few hours.  Perfect day to test them.
> 
> They were much heavier than I was expecting and feels heavier than my current portable SE846 setup, which includes my Dragonfly Cobalt and adapters in the case.  That is fine as this will be my office setup anyway. Actually makes me kind of excited about taking the train in today.


Danggit…my 535s would probably love to take a walk in those


----------



## erockg

TK33 said:


> FedEx dropped these off this morning, it has probably been about 20 hours since I ordered them from Shure last night.  Put my SE846 on them and charging them up so I can take them with me when I head out to the city in a few hours.  Perfect day to test them.
> 
> They were much heavier than I was expecting and feels heavier than my current portable SE846 setup, which includes my Dragonfly Cobalt and adapters in the case.  That is fine as this will be my office setup anyway. Actually makes me kind of excited about taking the train in today.


City test!  Can’t wait to hear.  Been using mine for the last two days.  Just awesome.


----------



## Tommy C (Sep 14, 2021)

scubaphish said:


> I agree with these points and in fact, if I had a criticism of these buds it’s that the seal is almost too good. They create almost a vacuum in my ear canal that can be a little discomforting. That said, they do sound better than their price point would suggest. Worth trying out



Agreed. Personally, the tight seal works well for me when I'm on phone calls and need to focus but you are absolutely correct, it can get too much after a while which I was able to resolve with some longer tips that I had available and they sound great with them.


----------



## darveniza

jant71 said:


> The new Technics...
> 
> https://translate.google.com/transl...cs.com/products/tws/az60/&prev=search&pto=aue


October 15 2021 release


----------



## darveniza

profusion said:


> Any recommendation of TWS sub 100$, with ambient mode?


VIVO TWS 2 , pretty great and includes awesome ANC. You can order via giztop


----------



## BooleanBones

darveniza said:


> October 15 2021 release


Looks like they stepped down the driver size from 10mm today to 8mm on this model. I am eager to try them for sure though. Seems like a lot of emphasis on overall use (calls, etc.)


----------



## darveniza

BooleanBones said:


> Loo
> 
> 
> BooleanBones said:
> ...


----------



## HaliHarry (Sep 14, 2021)

BooleanBones said:


> Looks like they stepped down the driver size from 10mm today to 8mm on this model. I am eager to try them for sure though. Seems like a lot of emphasis on overall use (calls, etc.)


https://www.goodspress.jp/reports/398559/2/
They continue to focus on the nature of sound and extensive soundstage just like the way they did with AZ70. I can't hide that how i love it!!
I definitely will give back B&O EQ and buy AZ60 imediately when they release it.


----------



## nekonhime

pilgrimbilly said:


> Tried it. Way too much bass for me, even with/especially with my R&B/funk play lists.


Weird or maybe my ears have some problem of hearing as I feel it lesser the bass from original, expanded the sound stage and clarify the vocal. Do you mind to give me your eq map so I can make a comparison?


----------



## Thesonofkrypton

How does the numbering work? AZ70 is higher or lower model


----------



## scubaphish

scubaphish said:


> I’m a fan of them, and even bought those open box before I found the Gemini, but this goes into the pile for my wife to try to replace her “uncomfortable” AAP. So I think fhe $100 version without ANC is perfect (she wouldn’t want to spend that much for as much as she’ll use them). But we’ll see.
> 
> got her MT, Fiil X1 and now these Klipsch. One is bound to fit her requirements comfortably


Man, these previous gen Klipsch T5 II are fantastic!  Great clarity, no overwhelming frequencies…solid bass without any bleed. I’m very happy with this Woot purchase


----------



## AudioBomb

Nura True is sounding far far better after some adjustments, basically stuff that was enabled from Samsung that should not. After some time listening to an headphone with such monstruous soundstage, I learnt to appreciatre its qualities and technicalities. It's not in fact inferior to Nuraloops, just different, but both sound extremely detailed, the most detailed sound I've heard out of any BT headphone, with an enormous bass presence and instrument separation. They're lovely, they sound amazing and I would recommend them to my worst enemy  (joking)


----------



## erockg

scubaphish said:


> Man, these previous gen Klipsch T5 II are fantastic!  Great clarity, no overwhelming frequencies…solid bass without any bleed. I’m very happy with this Woot purchase


Wait a minute.  I thought those were for your wife?


----------



## erockg

AudioBomb said:


> Nura True is sounding far far better after some adjustments, basically stuff that was enabled from Samsung that should not. After some time listening to an headphone with such monstruous soundstage, I learnt to appreciatre its qualities and technicalities. It's not in fact inferior to Nuraloops, just different, but both sound extremely detailed, the most detailed sound I've heard out of any BT headphone, with an enormous bass presence and instrument separation. They're lovely, they sound amazing and I would recommend them to my worst enemy  (joking)


I told you!!!


----------



## AudioBomb (Sep 14, 2021)

My wife still uses the amazing RockJaw Alpha Genus V2 that sounds as good as these Nuras at 30€ or so (wired).

Was quite difficult to figure which was better. Genus V2 or FLC8S (300€). FLC won by a small margin. On those times FLC8S sounded way above their price tag.

Found Alpha Genus V2 on amazon recently. They're still producing. Was quite tempted to buy one for me.

The issue with the Alpha Genus is that you need a good DAC/DAP, so you need to add that to the final price.

I'm loving the path that Bluetooth headphones are following, there was a big evolution in sound quality, so I'm finding these super convenient and easy to use.


----------



## scubaphish (Sep 14, 2021)

erockg said:


> Wait a minute.  I thought those were for your wife?


Ha!! I already got a look and an “are you done playing with my new earphones”  🥸


----------



## bladefd (Sep 14, 2021)

scubaphish said:


> Thanks a lot, that was my concern. They are very reasonably priced at $90US but fit was where I had worries.


I had fit/comfort issues with the CX400BT. The sound was awesome but couldn't get it comfortable. I sent it back. It was too big also, almost like a block the size of the ear.

I had the same issue with the AZ70. Fitting and comfort. They stuck out too far and fell out several times. I sent them back too. This was back in December btw.


----------



## jant71

I just lowered the price on my Nuarl listing but in here for the TWS crowd I'll take another $10 off of them. I challenge you to find a better set at that price or even quite a bit more.


----------



## XeNoNF50

Curious what is the consensus for the current best sounding true wireless IEMs?


----------



## dweaver

Thesonofkrypton said:


> How does the numbering work? AZ70 is higher or lower model


Based on the convention they are using the AZ70 in theory would still be a higher model. The fact they have a smaller driver sort of speaks to that. Having said that is a BioCellulose driver which should make it more resolving. 

Having said that if they mange to maintain the same sound quality in a smaller IEM with similar or better functionality then the AZ60 will be the new flagship regardless of their naming convention. The addition of LDAC, multipoint connectivity, larger fit kit, newer version of BT etc certainly suggest that.


----------



## assassin10000

nekonhime said:


> Weird or maybe my ears have some problem of hearing as I feel it lesser the bass from original, expanded the sound stage and clarify the vocal. Do you mind to give me your eq map so I can make a comparison?


Perhaps a poor seal? I'd try different ear tips maybe.

Here's my EQ for the XM4.





And measurements:


----------



## nekonhime

assassin10000 said:


> Perhaps a poor seal? I'd try different ear tips maybe.
> 
> Here's my EQ for the XM4.
> 
> ...


Thanks a lot. I will test this with different ear tips as well


----------



## BooleanBones

nekonhime said:


> Thanks a lot. I will test this with different ear tips as well


I love my Finals on the XM4s, but you have to order those from Hong Kong.


----------



## TK33 (Sep 14, 2021)

Shure TW2 + SE846 update:

SQ: sounds way better than any other TWS I have, even with aptX only   SE846 does seem to lose a bit of soundstage and vocals aren't as centered for me but I think a lot of it has to do with fit.

Comfort and fit: they are comfortable and very secure. However, I did have to keep pushing them in because they seem a bit tight for my big ears and keep pulling the earbud out making it hard to maintain a good seal.  I may try with the SE535s, which I have always found more comfortable.  Hopefully the adapter loosen up over time. I've never liked the Shure memory wire cables and I also had glasses and a mask on so I was honestly not surprised

Connection quality is awesome. No issues on the train or in Penn Station.  Had a few hiccups in the usual areas while walking around outside Penn Station, Times Square and Bryant Park during the day when there were lots of people and cars but nothing I am not used to.  However, I just ran down to Penn Station from 53rd and Madison (a little less than 2 miles) and did not have a single cutout (maybe because there is less traffic and interference at night).  No dropouts at my station where I usually get some cutouts.  Phone was usually in back pocket.

Controls are awesome. I can control volume, play/pause, environment mode, next and previous track all from the adapter and you can customize it any way you want. 

Pairing: very easy and I can switch between my V60 and OnePlus 8T without disconnecting from the other.

Call quality: I had 2 calls on the train ride in and none complained so a plus for me.

I think these will be my in office buds where I need to be aware of my surroundings anyway

Only complaints are:

1. Fit is not great for me but I am still happy enough to keep them.  Hopefully it gets better with use.

2. Case is big (cannot be helped for obvious reasons) but it was annoying to go into the backpack to get it.  Have been spoiled by TWS where the case is always in my pocket.

Overall pretty happy.with these after Day 1.


----------



## turbobb (Sep 15, 2021)

I unfortunately damaged one of my medium sized tips for Jabra EA 75t - I have unused Large tips (blue) to exchange for Mediums if anyone has any to spare. Please PM me. Thx!


----------



## Luke Skywalker

scubaphish said:


> Ha!! I already got a look and an “are you done playing with my new earphones”  🥸


Ya our system is she flicks the lights on and off when she wants to her my attention. It’s just so peaceful to block out noise and listen to some classical to chill out after work


----------



## nekonhime

BooleanBones said:


> I love my Finals on the XM4s, but you have to order those from Hong Kong.


Do you mind telling me which type you used for the xm4? I saw type E on Amazon


----------



## nekonhime

BooleanBones said:


> I love my Finals on the XM4s, but you have to order those from Hong Kong.


Do you mind telling me which type you used for the xm4? I saw type E on Amazon


----------



## BooleanBones

nekonhime said:


> Do you mind telling me which type you used for the xm4? I saw type E on Amazon


Yeah, Type E TWS. The ones on Amazon are for IEM and not short enough for TWS buds. These are it - https://www.mtmtaudio.com/collectio...-for-true-wireless-bluetooth-earphone-2-pairs


----------



## xuan87

Came into this thread to get some suggestions for what TWS iems to buy next, settled on the Nuratrues and the Fiil T1 Pro, the former because I was interested in the personalized tuning, and the latter because it was cheap at around $60.

The Technics sound interesting too, and so do the Grado GT220, but they're pretty pricey so may only get them much later on.

And to give back, I'm just sharing some experience that I have for TWZ recently.

I'm currently using the Sony WF 1000XM3 (most use as it has great sound, great connection stability and great ANC), the Jabra Elite 65t (got a refurbished set cheap, pretty decent sound, great connection stability, I rotate them with the Sony) and the Nuarl NT01A (best sound of the 3, but connection stability is spotty, hence limited use time).

I also had the Alpha Delta Elite (love the rubber matte surface feel, fits great in my ears, comes with wireless charging, but sound signature is geared towards the masses with strong bass, tamed highs and narrow soundstage with the mids positioned forward. Sound is acceptable to me, connection stability is decent, price is low, but I gave them to my partner).

I recently tried the Sony XM4 (sounded very close to the XM3, but slightly warmer with slightly more bass, the body is much better designed though) and the Devialet Gemini (probably had the strongest and best bass I've heard in any earphones, except for the Future Sonics Atrios, definitely one to try for bassheads) but decided against buying them.

I tried a few TWS from Chi Fi brands like Shanling (sounded off) and KZ (cheap with decent sound, but terrible connection stability) and decided to stick to some of the more well known brands.


----------



## HaliHarry

Is Xenluloza driver on AZ60 a  high-class driver ?? I found them on some premier IEM of JVC and all of them is succesfull earphone  of JVC such as HA-FW10000


----------



## scubaphish

TK33 said:


> Shure TW2 + SE846 update:
> 
> SQ: sounds way better than any other TWS I have, even with aptX only   SE846 does seem to lose a bit of soundstage and vocals aren't as centered for me but I think a lot of it has to do with fit.
> 
> ...


Great write up thanks. Glad you enjoyed. I was encouraged to take my 535 out again and while they sound amazing, I was reminded of the headache that was dealing with the memory cables…I’m so spoiled now


----------



## AudioBomb

I feel for you guys that think that SE846 sounds amazing


----------



## erockg (Sep 15, 2021)

TK33 said:


> Shure TW2 + SE846 update:
> 
> SQ: sounds way better than any other TWS I have, even with aptX only   SE846 does seem to lose a bit of soundstage and vocals aren't as centered for me but I think a lot of it has to do with fit.
> 
> ...


Glad you're digging them!  Pretty much agree with everything you say above.  I've been using Etymotic double flange tips with mine and they seem to be working very well for fit.  I'm cranium challenged as well.  The case is big, but I like that I'm not tied to the case.  You can carry the bud and power them on/off at will.  Zero bluetooth issues here.  I'm beyond happy.  Shure really did fix these and make them better than Gen 1.  Zoom calls, phone calls and music all day.  No problem.  Bluetooth super easy to switch.  Oh, I do regret now that I'm using the SE846, that I didn't just get the adapters, not the version with the SE215s.  Oh well.

Excuse me while I put mine on.  Time to rock.


----------



## erockg

Luke Skywalker said:


> Ya our system is she flicks the lights on and off when she wants to her my attention. It’s just so peaceful to block out noise and listen to some classical to chill out after work


There is no way that system will work here.  I usually either finally hear a yell, or something gets thrown.  Good thing I love her.


----------



## scubaphish

erockg said:


> There is no way that system will work here.  I usually either finally hear a yell, or something gets thrown.  Good thing I love her.


I got a little dance the other day, arms waving around and everything.


----------



## BooleanBones

erockg said:


> There is no way that system will work here.  I usually either finally hear a yell, or something gets thrown.  Good thing I love her.


Here too. UFOs get my undivided attention quickly.


----------



## jsmiller58

AudioBomb said:


> I feel for you guys that think that SE846 sounds amazing


?


----------



## AudioBomb

BooleanBones said:


> Here too. UFOs get my undivided attention quickly.


Extraterrestrials are worried about the atomic bomb.


----------



## erockg

scubaphish said:


> I got a little dance the other day, arms waving around and everything.


Hey now.


----------



## scubaphish

erockg said:


> Hey now.


Got my attention


----------



## erockg

BooleanBones said:


> Here too. UFOs get my undivided attention quickly.


----------



## Podster

I've always thought Apple Pods to be the initiator of solid BT (TWS) pods but so many good manufacturers have been in hot pursuit and imo have surpassed them if for no other reason the option to turn any 2 Pin or MMCX iem/ciem into ones favorite wireless setup 

Why limit oneself to one or two dedicated TWS iem's when adaptable TWS gives so many more options?


----------



## EMINENT

Podster said:


> I've always thought Apple Pods to be the initiator of solid BT (TWS) pods..



 Actually, quite a few before it.


----------



## szore

First post here, finally dived into the world of TWS, got the Bowers&Wilkins PI7, baby, I am SOLD! This thing sounds AMAZING! True audiophile, blown away and very impressed.


----------



## Podster

EMINENT said:


> Actually, quite a few before it.


True but even today many TWS have issues whether sound quality, connectivity or just plain longevity. Air Pods imo were one of the better (more solid) BT units but I'm always interested in others findings on the subject


----------



## actorlife (Sep 15, 2021)

Hi guys been awhile.😲😁Ordered the New Tranya T20. Last few offerings I didn't like, so we will see if they are a keeper. I like the small size, 4 mics and low latency. Hopefully it has good highs as my prized older pair.


----------



## EMINENT

Podster said:


> True but even today many TWS have issues whether sound quality, connectivity or just plain longevity. Air Pods imo were one of the better (more solid) BT units but I'm always interested in others findings on the subject


Bragi Dash were pretty damn good back in 2015 for their time. Would still rather use them over gen 1 airpods 35 days a month. Once big tech took notice like Samsung, then Apple of course, and now everyone makes one. Too bad Bragi aren't making new products but good to see they are still around.


----------



## Podster

EMINENT said:


> Bragi Dash were pretty damn good back in 2015 for their time. Would still rather use them over gen 1 airpods 35 days a month. Once big tech took notice like Samsung, then Apple of course, and now everyone makes one. Too bad Bragi aren't making new products but good to see they are still around.


Sounds like a HINT email to them is in order based on your feelings about your old ones


----------



## EMINENT

Podster said:


> Sounds like a HINT email to them is in order based on your feelings about your old ones


Nah, not worth it. Probably tough to compete with all the big tech players in the market these days. Sad state of affairs we are in 6 years later though with mediocre performance around. Hopefully, Qualcomm's lossless changes things.


----------



## Podster

EMINENT said:


> Nah, not worth it. Probably tough to compete with all the big tech players in the market these days. Sad state of affairs we are in 6 years later though with mediocre performance around. Hopefully, Qualcomm's lossless changes things.


Maybe but as they say "The Proof is in the Pudding"  It's not the first time the word LossLess has been thrown around only to find that's not always the case!


----------



## erockg

EMINENT said:


> Bragi Dash were pretty damn good back in 2015 for their time. Would still rather use them over gen 1 airpods 35 days a month. Once big tech took notice like Samsung, then Apple of course, and now everyone makes one. Too bad Bragi aren't making new products but good to see they are still around.


Bragi and Earin were ahead of their time.  Loved both.  Bragi sold their hardware business and kept their OS.  Bragi OS is in the new Klipsch T5 II ANC.  Have and love them!


----------



## clerkpalmer

erockg said:


> Bragi and Earin were ahead of their time.  Loved both.  Bragi sold their hardware business and kept their OS.  Bragi OS is in the new Klipsch T5 II ANC.  Have and love them!


Bragi never wanted to be a headphone company.  It was always aiming for something higher.  The Dash was truly innovative and pretty damn solid as well.  The Jabra Elite Sport came along pretty soon thereafter and was more polished than Bragi overall.  I think Jabra was the first to really perfect the form factor.  TWS has come a long way since then (probably 6 years now?).  I imagine that in the next 6 years we may say a complete abandonment of wired IEMs at least for 99% of people.  There will probably always be a small group that prefers wired but I expect advancements in wireless audio quality to kill the wire eventually particularly for IEMs.  If I was a traditional IEM company, I would be very focused on true wireless because it isn't going away.


----------



## erockg

clerkpalmer said:


> Bragi never wanted to be a headphone company.  It was always aiming for something higher.  The Dash was truly innovative and pretty damn solid as well.  The Jabra Elite Sport came along pretty soon thereafter and was more polished than Bragi overall.  I think Jabra was the first to really perfect the form factor.  TWS has come a long way since then (probably 6 years now?).  I imagine that in the next 6 years we may say a complete abandonment of wired IEMs at least for 99% of people.  There will probably always be a small group that prefers wired but I expect advancements in wireless audio quality to kill the wire eventually particularly for IEMs.  If I was a traditional IEM company, I would be very focused on true wireless because it isn't going away.


See, I had those Jabra and I always reached for my Starkey Bragi Dash Pros . Wait, I've had all the Jabras.  Ugh.  Sad. 

I agree, I think TWS is just getting better.  Convenience, form factor, size.  SO happy they've come so far.


----------



## EMINENT

Podster said:


> Maybe but as they say "The Proof is in the Pudding"  It's not the first time the word LossLess has been thrown around only to find that's not always the case!


Yeah, even LDAC can't save the XM4's... About to put these up for sale.


clerkpalmer said:


> Bragi never wanted to be a headphone company.  It was always aiming for something higher.  The Dash was truly innovative and pretty damn solid as well.  The Jabra Elite Sport came along pretty soon thereafter and was more polished than Bragi overall.  I think Jabra was the first to really perfect the form factor.  TWS has come a long way since then (probably 6 years now?).  I imagine that in the next 6 years we may say a complete abandonment of wired IEMs at least for 99% of people.  There will probably always be a small group that prefers wired but I expect advancements in wireless audio quality to kill the wire eventually particularly for IEMs.  If I was a traditional IEM company, I would be very focused on true wireless because it isn't going away.



Audeze needs to redesign the i series to adapt something like the utws3 with the connectors at the top instead of bottom. Their Cypher BT ear dongles were a travesty in the looks dept. I was hoping the Euclid would be an option for utws3, but reviews weren't promising. Even the utws3 would be a no go in public looking like old school hearing aid.


----------



## clerkpalmer

EMINENT said:


> Yeah, even LDAC can't save the XM4's... About to put these up for sale.
> 
> 
> Audeze needs to redesign the i series to adapt something like the utws3 with the connectors at the top instead of bottom. Their Cypher BT ear dongles were a travesty in the looks dept. I was hoping the Euclid would be an option for utws3, but reviews weren't promising. Even the utws3 would be a no go in public looking like old school hearing aid.


Yeah I think Audeze will be the one that gets a high end tws to the market first. Would be a game changer.


----------



## jant71

actorlife said:


> Hi guys been awhile.😲😁Ordered the New Tranya T20. Last few offerings I didn't like, so we will see if they are a keeper. I like the small size, 4 mics and low latency. Hopefully it has good highs as my prized older pair.


Looks a lot like the new Back Bay audio model, Tempo 30.  Starts with a "T" 30 and T20. IPX 7, bass and normal sound modes and that shape...



Back bay looks a little nicer but seems to have a slimmer case and that would knock off one charge. Back bay is cheaper. Also have low lag "movie" mode but the back bay have 8mm drivers and not 6mm.


----------



## Podster

I'm still for the TWS adapters, if they could just shrink it a little and maybe curve the chassis to fit around the back of the ear I'd be all over it. I love the BT20S Pro and especially the option of putting any of my iem's on it, I don't like nor do I trust any earpiece that just sits in the ear or depends on the seal to hang on! Was never a fan of ear guide wires on cables but I have always worn my cables over ear for support and of course with heavier iem's its a must  Like these IKKO's


----------



## erockg

Podster said:


> I'm still for the TWS adapters, if they could just shrink it a little and maybe curve the chassis to fit around the back of the ear I'd be all over it. I love the BT20S Pro and especially the option of putting any of my iem's on it, I don't like nor do I trust any earpiece that just sits in the ear or depends on the seal to hang on! Was never a fan of ear guide wires on cables but I have always worn my cables over ear for support and of course with heavier iem's its a must  Like these IKKO's


Madly in love with my Shure SE846s on the new Gen 2 Shure TWS adapters.  I like them more than the Fiio and TRNs.  Definitely worth a look.


----------



## Podster

erockg said:


> Madly in love with my Shure SE846s on the new Gen 2 Shure TWS adapters.  I like them more than the Fiio and TRNs.  Definitely worth a look.


Nice, are they working on a 2 pin version that you know of?


----------



## erockg

Podster said:


> Nice, are they working on a 2 pin version that you know of?


Not that I know of.  Shure only uses MMCX.  I did try an adapter on them and although it did work, they make the stems longer.  Your mileage may vary.


----------



## clerkpalmer

tendou said:


> Any recommendations for half in ear tws?


Bose QC or Soundsport are solid and don't fully seal.


----------



## Podster

erockg said:


> Not that I know of.  Shure only uses MMCX.  I did try an adapter on them and although it did work, they make the stems longer.  Your mileage may vary.


Yeah, I had already figured that option but being an old technician from way back any point of break in connectivity is just another opportunity for trouble LOL


----------



## clerkpalmer

erockg said:


> Not that I know of.  Shure only uses MMCX.  I did try an adapter on them and although it did work, they make the stems longer.  Your mileage may vary.


Do the shure iems require a pretty deep insertion? How's the sq compared to the higher end tws?


----------



## erockg

clerkpalmer said:


> Bose QC or Soundsport are solid and don't fully seal.


Jabra 85T too.  Sadly, they were 40% off yesterday on Jabra.com


----------



## erockg

clerkpalmer said:


> Do the shure iems require a pretty deep insertion? How's the sq compared to the higher end tws?


Honestly, the setup I have blows away all my TWS soundwise.  With the SE846s I'm listening to Pink Floyd's Momentary Lapse of Reason right now and the separation, clarity is just beautiful.  Clean bass, deep but zero mud.  Just took a phone call and it was perfect.  Yes, they do go in a tad deeper but less than the Klipsch.  The fit is snug and stable.


----------



## jant71

So it looks like the Jabra Elite 3 are impressing so far esp. for the sound and fit/passive iso. Seemingly solid for the $79.


----------



## Tommy C (Sep 15, 2021)

Podster said:


> Yeah, I had already figured that option but being an old technician from way back any point of break in connectivity is just another opportunity for trouble LOL



And that's why I don't see these adapters as a good long term option if you have MMCX connecters as these tend to fail over time.

So while I like the idea of the adapters and will go that route maybe down the road, I don't see them as a like for like replacement for a good TWS.


----------



## erockg

Podster said:


> Yeah, I had already figured that option but being an old technician from way back any point of break in connectivity is just another opportunity for trouble LOL


Well, by the time they break I'll probably have moved onto the next thing. You know this tech changes so fast it's hard to keep up. But keeping up is part of the fun.


----------



## Tommy C (Sep 15, 2021)

erockg said:


> Well, by the time they break I'll probably have moved onto the next thing. You know this tech changes so fast it's hard to keep up. But keeping up is part of the fun.



Judging from the photos, I really like the Shure adapter, not so much of the other options as they look rather bulky to me or cumbersome.


----------



## actorlife

jant71 said:


> Looks a lot like the new Back Bay audio model, Tempo 30.  Starts with a "T" 30 and T20. IPX 7, bass and normal sound modes and that shape...
> 
> Back bay looks a little nicer but seems to have a slimmer case and that would knock off one charge. Back bay is cheaper. Also have low lag "movie" mode but the back bay have 8mm drivers and not 6mm.


I hope they sound great. Tranya makes good stuff. The 4 mic has me intrigued and low latency. I hope I really like em. I'll post about my thoughts.


----------



## jant71

actorlife said:


> I hope they sound great. Tranya makes good stuff. The 4 mic has me intrigued and low latency. I hope I really like em. I'll post about my thoughts.


I hope they turn out good.  My mistake as the two are the same price on Amazon. T20 is more on the website and you would need a code to drop the price. Would have been nice if either had aptX though.


----------



## AudioBomb (Sep 15, 2021)

jsmiller58 said:


> ?


Pretty limited instrument separation/3D imaging, should be priced at 500€ max and I wouldn't pay 500€ for it. There are better alternatives at that price. LCD-i3, for example sounds much much much better. FLC8n, for example, a 300€ IEM, sounds better in all fronts. It was not a fair comparison, but I've comnpared them to QDC Anole VX and the difference was night and day. So much, I thought SHURE is really exagerating on the price. I've gotten Anole VX used for 1100€. That thing sounds as good as my ADAM A7X Studio Monitors.

What do you buy SE846 for? For the bass? There are bass monsters out there for a fraction of the cost.

Just my humble opinion. Your mileage may vary.


----------



## pitch_black

BooleanBones said:


> With the ease of returns at B&O, they are very tempting, especially after listening to the EQ SQ. Think @pitch_black should chime in here. He has a set


I’m at a island in the aegean sea and far from the next cell tower - sometimes no internet all all. What are you need to know about the H95? There’s also a very good thread here about it


----------



## BooleanBones

pitch_black said:


> I’m at a island in the aegean sea and far from the next cell tower - sometimes no internet all all. What are you need to know about the H95? There’s also a very good thread here about it


Nice. I actually bought some and have been enjoying them. I did spend some time going through the thread. Thanks.


----------



## pitch_black

erockg said:


> I've been using a new pair today and I'm not having the same pop issue on the tracks I've tested.  Will report back if they suddenly occur.  I truly love these B&O EQs.


I also have sand color….. your new set is black?


----------



## pitch_black

BooleanBones said:


> How do you like your H95s? I probably don't want to know the answer, but curious.


I like them very much but at these times fiddling with the mask i find the EQ more convenient at the moment. But every now end then I sit at home listen with them for many hours.

usually I always have them with me anyway but here at holiday I only have the EQ with me - due to the weight - I’ll only traveled with hand luggage


----------



## Luke Skywalker

Well this is pretty cool.  

The Klipsch T5 II ANC Mcclaren were on back order @ Amazon. price $271.93.  I ordered them thinking that it would be a long time (if ever) I got them. 

Got an email today that they’re arriving between Oct 5 and Oct 29. The price now shows as $349 on the item page but it’s looks like I’m still getting the lower price.


----------



## BooleanBones

pitch_black said:


> I also have sand color….. your new set is black?


Yeah, went with Black.


----------



## pitch_black

sebek said:


> What are the best wireless IEMs for SQ that you have tried?


The B&O EQ but try to avoid the sand color version. So far everybody with that pop/clip issue had a sand color, right?


----------



## BooleanBones

pitch_black said:


> The B&O EQ but try to avoid the sand color version. So far everybody with that pop/clip issue had a sand color, right?


No, ours were black. I was just messing with @erockg when he was going to buy his next set.


----------



## jsmiller58

AudioBomb said:


> Pretty limited instrument separation/3D imaging, should be priced at 500€ max and I wouldn't pay 500€ for it. There are better alternatives at that price. LCD-i3, for example sounds much much much better. FLC8n, for example, a 300€ IEM, sounds better in all fronts. It was not a fair comparison, but I've comnpared them to QDC Anole VX and the difference was night and day. So much, I thought SHURE is really exagerating on the price. I've gotten Anole VX used for 1100€. That thing sounds as good as my ADAM A7X Studio Monitors.
> 
> What do you buy SE846 for? For the bass? There are bass monsters out there for a fraction of the cost.
> 
> Just my humble opinion. Your mileage may vary.


No worries, just wanted more detail on your opinion.  The SE846 were introduced more than 5 years ago and a lot has changed since then.  They once were pretty much summit-fi and could command premium pricing.  Today?  I think the price is too high, though they still sound nice to me.


----------



## erockg

jsmiller58 said:


> No worries, just wanted more detail on your opinion.  The SE846 were introduced more than 5 years ago and a lot has changed since then.  They once were pretty much summit-fi and could command premium pricing.  Today?  I think the price is too high, though they still sound nice to me.


Agreed.  Absolutely love them.


----------



## erockg

BooleanBones said:


> No, ours were black. I was just messing with @erockg when he was going to buy his next set.


Got my replacement black with no pop issue!


----------



## jsmiller58

pitch_black said:


> I like them very much but at these times fiddling with the mask i find the EQ more convenient at the moment. But every now end then I sit at home listen with them for many hours.
> 
> usually I always have them with me anyway but here at holiday I only have the EQ with me - due to the weight - I’ll only traveled with hand luggage


Holidays on an island in the Aegean, and you only brought your EQs with you…. I think we can all say we feel for you….   Enjoy!!


----------



## tombrisbane

Got the B&O EQ’s today (with a free wireless charging pad which was nice!).  Amazing buds so far!  Have MTW2, Bose QC, Bose sports, Sony XM4’s an APP’s for comparison.


----------



## pitch_black

erockg said:


> The Shures sound great with the included SE215s but now you can EQ them which makes them sound even better.  That said, I ordered the SE846 which have 4 drivers.  They should be here today and I'll post some observations.  I had the last gen Fiio adapter and the Shure app really makes a difference.  I don't know if many IEMs will fit the Shure adapters like they do the UTSW3s and the like.  Hit or miss.



The wired SE846 have been many years my main headphone/iem. Even changed the color a few times, clear to black to blue and back to clear 🤪. Now wired IEMs behind the ears, also with that wireless solution seems to inconvenient with the mask 😷. But as soon we’re back to normal I’ll may give a try.


----------



## Luchyres

Question for those of you with the Nura Trues - how are they for calls? 

Also, do you find that they reach a failing point when EQing to add bass, or are these really the bass monsters they seem that you can really go for huge bass if you want to? 

TIA!


----------



## erockg

pitch_black said:


> The wired SE846 have been many years my main headphone/iem. Even changed the color a few times, clear to black to blue and back to clear 🤪. Now wired IEMs behind the ears, also with that wireless solution seems to inconvenient with the mask 😷. But as soon we’re back to normal I’ll may give a try.


I use mine with my mask some days.  Sometimes the mask loop can hook around the adapters and tangle. That said, it doesn’t happen often.  Also, if you wear glasses, the adapters can get in the way, but it’s not that bad at all IMO.


----------



## erockg

Luchyres said:


> Question for those of you with the Nura Trues - how are they for calls?
> 
> Also, do you find that they reach a failing point when EQing to add bass, or are these really the bass monsters they seem that you can really go for huge bass if you want to?
> 
> TIA!


I have used mine several times on phone calls and zoom calls. Nobody has ever had an issue with hearing me. They have never hit a failing point, if you mean distortion or anything like that. And yes they do have fun bass.


----------



## AudioBomb (Sep 16, 2021)

Luchyres said:


> Question for those of you with the Nura Trues - how are they for calls?
> 
> Also, do you find that they reach a failing point when EQing to add bass, or are these really the bass monsters they seem that you can really go for huge bass if you want to?
> 
> TIA!


I've just had one call and it seemed pretty good. But take this with a grain of salt. It was just one call.

They're bass monsters if you want to, never distort. At the same time, they're detail-monsters, never stop to impress me. I had to get used to their huge soundstage, it was a bit too much for my taste, but now I love it. They're incredible. Nura is end game for me for Bluetooth headphones.


----------



## TK33

erockg said:


> I use mine with my mask some days.  Sometimes the mask loop can hook around the adapters and tangle. That said, it doesn’t happen often.  Also, if you wear glasses, the adapters can get in the way, but it’s not that bad at all IMO.


@pitch_black  I agree with this.  I use mine with a mask and glasses.  The mask may get caught in the adapter but I think you just have to get used to making sure you are careful when taking the mask off.  Didn't happen everytime.

Fit is a bit tight for me but it keeps the IEMs very secure and I actually think I prefer it to having glasses, mask and wires looping over my ear (easier to keep over the ear than wires).  No risk of getting caught on a doorknob, armrest or someone else's backpack too. Obviously nothing beats TWS earbuds (non-adapter) for convenience though.


----------



## erockg

TK33 said:


> @pitch_black  I agree with this.  I use mine with a mask and glasses.  The mask may get caught in the adapter but I think you just have to get used to making sure you are careful when taking the mask off.  Didn't happen everytime.
> 
> Fit is a bit tight for me but it keeps the IEMs very secure and I actually think I prefer it to having glasses, mask and wires looping over my ear (easier to keep over the ear than wires).  No risk of getting caught on a doorknob, armrest or someone else's backpack too. Obviously nothing beats TWS earbuds (non-adapter) for convenience though.


What tips are you using?  I switched to the stock grey silicone, but have some Westone tips on the way to try.


----------



## nekonhime

I just snatched Klipsch T5 II anc for 170. Can't wait to compare them with the xm4, mw08, nuratrue (on the way from amazon)


----------



## TK33

erockg said:


> What tips are you using?  I switched to the stock grey silicone, but have some Westone tips on the way to try.


I'm back to Spinfit CP800s now. I found the shallow fit of the Final Type E more comfortable but got a better seal with the foam tips and Spinfits.  Was using the foam tips for better isolation but went back to Spinfits more for hygiene while out and about. Haven't tried the stock silicone tips in years but was never really a fan and the CP800s have been working for me.


----------



## BooleanBones

nekonhime said:


> I just snatched Klipsch T5 II anc for 170. Can't wait to compare them with the xm4, mw08, nuratrue (on the way from amazon)


Make sure you try multiple scenarios with the tips as they fit different (deeper into ear) than traditional TWS fits. I stepped down a size on their tips to make the feel a bit more comfortable.


----------



## nekonhime

BooleanBones said:


> Make sure you try multiple scenarios with the tips as they fit different (deeper into ear) than traditional TWS fits. I stepped down a size on their tips to make the feel a bit more comfortable.


I used to own their wired version ( I bought it at 80$ from bestbuy- worst decision I ever made) so I guess I take a liking of them as I broke 4 pairs in 2 months.


----------



## erockg

TK33 said:


> I'm back to Spinfit CP800s now. I found the shallow fit of the Final Type E more comfortable but got a better seal with the foam tips and Spinfits.  Was using the foam tips for better isolation but went back to Spinfits more for hygiene while out and about. Haven't tried the stock silicone tips in years but was never really a fan and the CP800s have been working for me.


Cool.  I have the Spinfits saved in my Amazon cart.  I'll check them out.   

Yes, same her re: foam, stock are nice.  I have the Comply tips too.


----------



## Luke Skywalker

I live in the Midwest US and no one wears a mask now. In fact very few people did even at the height of COVID. I did and still do but based on my limited understanding, wearing a mask protects others more than myself.


----------



## BooleanBones

nekonhime said:


> I used to own their wired version ( I bought it at 80$ from bestbuy- worst decision I ever made) so I guess I take a liking of them as I broke 4 pairs in 2 months.


170$ for them is a great deal IMO. As long as you are patient and spend some time with them to personalize them a bit, they sound pretty good and have a buttload of features.


----------



## erockg

BooleanBones said:


> Make sure you try multiple scenarios with the tips as they fit different (deeper into ear) than traditional TWS fits. I stepped down a size on their tips to make the feel a bit more comfortable.


What he said.


----------



## nekonhime

BooleanBones said:


> 170$ for them is a great deal IMO. As long as you are patient and spend some time with them to personalize them a bit, they sound pretty good and have a buttload of features.


Sound like a challenge to me. I guess I will do that after my exam


----------



## BooleanBones

nekonhime said:


> Sound like a challenge to me. I guess I will do that after my exam


Wait until you use the Head shaking features in public a few times. People give you some great looks


----------



## nekonhime

Luke Skywalker said:


> I live in the Midwest US and no one wears a mask now. In fact very few people did even at the height of COVID. I did and still do but based on my limited understanding, wearing a mask protects others more than myself.


Depend on what kind of mask, it can protect yourself and others like the N95 or military gas mask lol. The only downside is they are hard to breath in.


----------



## nekonhime

BooleanBones said:


> Wait until you use the Head shaking features in public a few times. People give you some great looks


Sound like a madman irl 🤣


----------



## erockg

BooleanBones said:


> Wait until you use the Head shaking features in public a few times. People give you some great looks


If they add the Bragi 4D head gestures that would so great.  I used to use them in the office and people would be like, "What are you doing -- ?"  Changing tracks, duh.


----------



## Luke Skywalker

nekonhime said:


> Depend on what kind of mask, it can protect yourself and others like the N95 or military gas mask lol. The only downside is they are hard to breath in.


Yup. I’ve worn nothing but N95 since this all began


----------



## tinyman392

Luke Skywalker said:


> I live in the Midwest US and no one wears a mask now. In fact very few people did even at the height of COVID. I did and still do but based on my limited understanding, wearing a mask protects others more than myself.


I'm in the Chicagoland area and it was very prevalent during the mask mandates.  Now with the relaxed setups we have here (despite having a mandate) the masking is about split, but with the majority with masks on again.  You are right though that most masks protect others from the wearer rather than the wearer from others.  


nekonhime said:


> Depend on what kind of mask, it can protect yourself and others like the N95 or military gas mask lol. The only downside is they are hard to breath in.


Does a military gas mask let air out like a ventilated one would?  I never really had much trouble breathing with a KN95 mask, in a lot of cases I prefer the shape of those since they keep a pretty large bubble of air in front of you that is relatively easy to breath though vs a thick cloth mask that sits against the mouth.


----------



## nekonhime

tinyman392 said:


> I'm in the Chicagoland area and it was very prevalent during the mask mandates.  Now with the relaxed setups we have here (despite having a mandate) the masking is about split, but with the majority with masks on again.  You are right though that most masks protect others from the wearer rather than the wearer from others.
> 
> Does a military gas mask let air out like a ventilated one would?  I never really had much trouble breathing with a KN95 mask, in a lot of cases I prefer the shape of those since they keep a pretty large bubble of air in front of you that is relatively easy to breath though vs a thick cloth mask that sits against the mouth.


KN95 mask is useless against bacterias and gas that why it is much easier to breath in. N95 mask and military gas mask have their own air filter and holes that only allow air from the inside past.


----------



## jant71 (Sep 16, 2021)

Worth a try as a back up knockaround model for $11.24 before the tax??
https://www.amazon.com/Detection-He...jbGlja1JlZGlyZWN0JmRvTm90TG9nQ2xpY2s9dHJ1ZQ==




Not bad with quick charge, 5.1, QCC3026 with aptX and in ear detection and ipx8 for that price. On paper anyway.


----------



## xirxes

So this thread is mega-bloated I’m not even going to try to parse it for what I need, forgive me if it was on page 1,135 but:

Which are the front runners for best fidelity Bluetooth wireless IEM?

I have been very happy with my M&D MW07 plus for the last 2 years or so, but I would love to see if there are many better but also DURABLE and highly water resistant/proof? These are used while I am out in the elements, working, sweating, and need to have a good in ear hold as well (all reasons why cables are a no go).

TIA for recommendations.


----------



## NCUS

nekonhime said:


> KN95 mask is useless against bacterias and gas that why it is much easier to breath in. N95 mask and military gas mask have their own air filter and holes that only allow air from the inside past.


Functionally, a KN95 is supposed to have the same filtration as a N95.  The issue with KN95 masks is that they are made in China and many are fake.  I've heard some have tested with terrible performance, like 1% filtration.  If you can't get a N95, a close approximation would be a KF94 which usually is made in Korea and usually made to much better tolerances than a KN95.  KF94 is functionally equivalent to the European FFP2 standard, which in turn is supposed to be equivalent to a US N95 despite having 94% filtration vs 95% filtration to tiny particles.


----------



## pitch_black




----------



## tinyman392

nekonhime said:


> KN95 mask is useless against bacterias and gas that why it is much easier to breath in. N95 mask and military gas mask have their own air filter and holes that only allow air from the inside past.


Granted they are different standards, the KN95 standard is still tested against 1 micron and 95% filtration similar to an N95.  They actually work extremely well against bacteria if you get a legitimate one.  There are fakes of KN95s running around right now.


----------



## tinyman392

xirxes said:


> So this thread is mega-bloated I’m not even going to try to parse it for what I need, forgive me if it was on page 1,135 but:
> 
> Which are the front runners for best fidelity Bluetooth wireless IEM?
> 
> ...


This thread is everyone testing out the newest TWS.  The Sony, B&W, B&O are the new kids on the block right now getting a lot of attention.  Though if you want fidelity you could always get a TWS adapter and a good pair of IEMs, they’ll blow just about any TWS offered right now out of the water.  Otherwise, look for some similarly-priced TWS that don’t offer ANC and other features as they have more R&D room to focus on sound quality.


----------



## xirxes

tinyman392 said:


> This thread is everyone testing out the newest TWS.  The Sony, B&W, B&O are the new kids on the block right now getting a lot of attention.  Though if you want fidelity you could always get a TWS adapter and a good pair of IEMs, they’ll blow just about any TWS offered right now out of the water.  Otherwise, look for some similarly-priced TWS that don’t offer ANC and other features as they have more R&D room to focus on sound quality.


Please define “TWS”

is there an adapter king?

also is there such a thing as truly high quality sound with phone type buttons, or is it a clear delineation between two camps?


----------



## tinyman392

xirxes said:


> Please define “TWS”
> 
> is there an adapter king?
> 
> also is there such a thing as truly high quality sound with phone type buttons, or is it a clear delineation between two camps?


TWS stands for true wireless stereo.  The adapter allows you to use an already good IEM over BT which is why it reigns king right now in terms of audio quality.  The cases for theses adapters tend to be a bit more bulky though, as does the design of the adapters.  Not sure what the last question is asking.


----------



## xirxes

tinyman392 said:


> TWS stands for true wireless stereo.  The adapter allows you to use an already good IEM over BT which is why it reigns king right now in terms of audio quality.  The cases for theses adapters tend to be a bit more bulky though, as does the design of the adapters.  Not sure what the last question is asking.


I use the “answer call”, start/stop music, volume up/down functions on my headsets quite often daily.

is there a set of earbuds/iems that retains these BT functions, but actually compares with fidelity of listening only indented BT adapted IEM’s or is it Pony vs Racehorse in sound quality between the two.


----------



## scubaphish

tinyman392 said:


> This thread is everyone testing out the newest TWS.  The Sony, B&W, B&O are the new kids on the block right now getting a lot of attention.  Though if you want fidelity you could always get a TWS adapter and a good pair of IEMs, they’ll blow just about any TWS offered right now out of the water.  Otherwise, look for some similarly-priced TWS that don’t offer ANC and other features as they have more R&D room to focus on sound quality.


If I may, I’d throw my 2 cents behind my current favorite, the Devialet Gemini.

Most of the wireless buds have the start/pause, rewind, fast forward commands. Volume up and down is less standard but on some.


----------



## nekonhime

NCUS said:


> Functionally, a KN95 is supposed to have the same filtration as a N95.  The issue with KN95 masks is that they are made in China and many are fake.  I've heard some have tested with terrible performance, like 1% filtration.  If you can't get a N95, a close approximation would be a KF94 which usually is made in Korea and usually made to much better tolerances than a KN95.  KF94 is functionally equivalent to the European FFP2 standard, which in turn is supposed to be equivalent to a US N95 despite having 94% filtration vs 95% filtration to tiny particles.





tinyman392 said:


> Granted they are different standards, the KN95 standard is still tested against 1 micron and 95% filtration similar to an N95.  They actually work extremely well against bacteria if you get a legitimate one.  There are fakes of KN95s running around right now.


Well, 70% of the kn95 didn't meet the standard also the reason why it is useless vs the n95.
Also the one I mentioned is in the picture below have it own filter which make it harder to breath.


----------



## nekonhime

xirxes said:


> So this thread is mega-bloated I’m not even going to try to parse it for what I need, forgive me if it was on page 1,135 but:
> 
> Which are the front runners for best fidelity Bluetooth wireless IEM?
> 
> ...


There is the Jabra active 75t which have the ip55, anc and good reviews


----------



## TK33

nekonhime said:


> Well, 70% of the kn95 didn't meet the standard also the reason why it is useless vs the n95.
> Also the one I mentioned is in the picture below have it own filter which make it harder to breath.


Is that mask TWS compatible? Jk

I have found TWS to be incredibly convenient though, especially with masks.  In NY masks are mandatory in a lot of places like trains (that is how I get into the city) and having caught COVID recently even after being fully vaccinated, I would rather be safer than have to deal with that again.


----------



## nekonhime

TK33 said:


> Is that mask TWS compatible? Jk
> 
> I have found TWS to be incredibly convenient though, especially with masks.  In NY masks are mandatory in a lot of places like trains (that is how I get into the city) and having caught COVID recently even after being fully vaccinated, I would rather be safer than have to deal with that again.


Same I change from headphone to tws because of mask and hot air in CA. 
And yes, there is audio mask


----------



## AudioBomb (Sep 16, 2021)

TK33 said:


> Is that mask TWS compatible? Jk
> 
> I have found TWS to be incredibly convenient though, especially with masks.  In NY masks are mandatory in a lot of places like trains (that is how I get into the city) and having caught COVID recently even after being fully vaccinated, I would rather be safer than have to deal with that again.


Vaccines just minimize the side effects of the virus, you will get the virus whether you're fully vaccinated or not. They should prevent mass hospitalization and that's what they do for now. So, don't be fool and take the damn vaccine. lol.

On a side note, for fans, I'm getting Nuraphone next week. Got one for 150€ on ebay 

Let's see how they improve over Nura True, I'll let you guys know.


----------



## earmonger (Sep 16, 2021)

tinyman392 said:


> Granted they are different standards, the KN95 standard is still tested against 1 micron and 95% filtration similar to an N95.  They actually work extremely well against bacteria if you get a legitimate one.  There are fakes of KN95s running around right now.


Get the vax, please, everybody. It could make the difference between not getting sick at all, not getting hospitalized if you do get sick,  and not spreading it to people more vulnerable than yourself. 

And wear a mask to provide that extra layer of protection.  N95 and KN95 help protect both you and other people; surgical masks, somewhat less; bandannas etc are a joke. A mask with a valve in it lets you breathe bad stuff on other people--not good. A face shield is useless. You can get N95s now and it is literally the LEAST you can do for your fellow humans--not to mention for your own good.

I guess all the masks are wireless. Here's a list of sources for real ones.
https://www.nytimes.com/wirecutter/reviews/where-to-buy-n95-kn95-masks-online/


----------



## nekonhime

Just received my nuratrue today and after 6 hours of testing both indoor and outdoor, I am quite ok with the sound but my earbuds made some loud Popping noise when I played some song, the ear detection is kinda bad, anc is useless


----------



## jant71 (Sep 17, 2021)

Holy Cow! Might have thought they would never go there but Denon has finally got off their ass  and made TWS earphones.
https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&u=https://www.phileweb.com/news/d-av/202109/17/53597.html











Odd decisions such as no app to save money so the NC model comes in at just under $200 but no app. Oval driver? Stick style? and only SBC/AAC even on the twice the price ANC model. Sounds like they will have big stages though and Mr. Yamauchi said that was the goal to sound more open like speakers. Him behind the sound is one of the good decisions.


----------



## voicemaster

Wow so many new TWS coming out. I am still enjoying my Galaxy buds pro for work. I just recently listening to my old Nuarl N6P and Mifo O7, I find them to sound good eventho they don't have ANC and Ambiance mode.


----------



## AudioBomb

nekonhime said:


> Just received my nuratrue today and after 6 hours of testing both indoor and outdoor, I am quite ok with the sound but my earbuds made some loud Popping noise when I played some song, the ear detection is kinda bad, anc is useless


That's bad luck. They're defective.


----------



## nekonhime

AudioBomb said:


> That's bad luck. They're defective.


Damnit, I guess I have to go to ups later on....


----------



## tgx78

my current top 3


----------



## AudioBomb (Sep 17, 2021)

nekonhime said:


> Damnit, I guess I have to go to ups later on....


I don't have a single issue with mines and ear detection is pretty good and anc not being the best I've tried, it's pretty decent.

You used the Nura app, right? Ear tests, etc? Because if you didn't, just do and test again. If you did, then they're defective.


----------



## nekonhime

AudioBomb said:


> I don't have a single issue with mines and ear detection is pretty good and anc not being the best I've tried, it's pretty decent.
> 
> You used the Nura app, right? Ear tests, etc? Because if you didn't, just do and test again. If you did, then they're defective.


I did or I cant use the earbuds. It was fine for 2 hours then pop like something exploded in my ears.


----------



## AudioBomb (Sep 17, 2021)

nekonhime said:


> I did or I cant use the earbuds. It was fine for 2 hours then pop like something exploded in my ears.


No, that's definitely some defect. And the ear detection and anc are not working well too.


----------



## nekonhime

AudioBomb said:


> No, that's definitely some defect.


I see, bad luck then. Nura need serious quality check for their products asap


----------



## AudioBomb (Sep 17, 2021)

nekonhime said:


> I see, bad luck then. Nura need serious quality check for their products asap


Happens with any brand. I've not seen many complaints about QC. But it's a ****


----------



## BigZ12

Oneplus Buds Pro, rave reviews in Norwegian tech magazines.
Anyone tried them?
https://www.oneplus.com/no/oneplus-buds-pro


----------



## C_Lindbergh (Sep 17, 2021)

Amazon sent me the new CX TWS plus 1-2 weeks before the official release 

Will try them once the first update is installed 

First initial impressions:

The CX plus  are a pair of excellent TWS, they just work flawlessly, compared to the CA MT:

Pros:

Single earbud use (even on my pixel 4a, which doesn't have TWS+)
Flawless connection
Flawless touch controls
Fully customizable touch controls
Easier to handle since the shape is a bit more "boxy", but they are still as comfortable
APTX adaptive
ANC (doesn't seem to effect the sound)
Connection manager in the app
Option to pause music when enabling ambient mode
The case, I much prefer the shape of the CX Plus case compared to the oval CA MT case


Cons:

CA MT sounds fuller, as we all know the CA MT are quite hard to beat in sound quality
Metal grilles


It will be really difficult to decide which one to keep...

My wish: CA+Sennheiser collaboration, Cambridge Audio takes care of the drivers/amplification, Sennheisers takes care of the rest 

I've yet to test the call quality


----------



## scubaphish

Speaking of ear detection issues, I RMA’d my Gemini for that problem on Monday and new set is on UPS truck for delivery today. That’s a solid RMA process.  Man I really miss them, too.


----------



## Tommy C (Sep 17, 2021)

C_Lindbergh said:


> Amazon sent me the new CX TWS plus 1-2 weeks before the official release
> 
> Will try them once the first update is installed
> 
> ...



I personally find the CA MT to have full body especially in the mids but at times it’s too much for certain tracks and even after I eq’ed them quite a bit and brought the lows down there are certain tracks that it shouldn’t be there.  I have been AB’ing them against the new Soundcore Liberty 2 Pro+ and the L2P+ have more natural and balanced sound (flat eq).  The Soundcore also offer better airiness in the tracks so rock music and acoustics are less congested while the CA MT sound more exciting and dynamic but it’s kind of a one trick pony as even after playing around with the eq it’s always the same limitation while the L2P+ are more versatile to different genres, and this might due to the fact that they that have the Knowles drivers to handle the highs.
It will be interesting to see the CX Plus Vs. The L2P+.

EDIT: just to add, I'm not suggesting that one is better than the other. 
They are both very good with pros and cons but just two completely different flavors.


----------



## Caipirina

tendou said:


> Any recommendations for half in ear tws?


Sabbat x12. Bose. And I just received the Baseus encok W11 which copy-ish the Bose tip style (minus wings) and so far I am quite impressed. Will take them on a run tomorrow


----------



## erockg

scubaphish said:


> Speaking of ear detection issues, I RMA’d my Gemini for that problem on Monday and new set is on UPS truck for delivery today. That’s a solid RMA process.  Man I really miss them, too.


That is awesome.  One of the OEM tips ripped and they just linked me to free tips to order:  https://www.devialet.com/en-us/true-wireless-earbuds/new-eartips-offer/


----------



## tinyman392 (Sep 17, 2021)

xirxes said:


> I use the “answer call”, start/stop music, volume up/down functions on my headsets quite often daily.
> 
> is there a set of earbuds/iems that retains these BT functions, but actually compares with fidelity of listening only indented BT adapted IEM’s or is it Pony vs Racehorse in sound quality between the two.


Most support the ability to answer and hang up calls as well as music controls like play/pause, skip, and previous.  Volume controls are a mixed bag as some do and some don't support this.

My favorite TWS (that isn't adapted) so far is the HiFiMan TWS800.  Though it got ostracized in this thread for being super expensive with not special features. Do not get the TWS600 though. 


AudioBomb said:


> Vaccines just minimize the side effects of the virus, you will get the virus whether you're fully vaccinated or not. They should prevent mass hospitalization and that's what they do for now. So, don't be fool and take the damn vaccine. lol.
> 
> On a side note, for fans, I'm getting Nuraphone next week. Got one for 150€ on ebay
> 
> Let's see how they improve over Nura True, I'll let you guys know.


The vaccines do help against getting infection, 60-90% efficacy (depending on vaccine) against new current variants that exist isn't nothing and relate to a 3-10x higher chance of testing positive if unvaccinated.  Efficacy for illness, serious illness, and death gets better and better as well.  Though these are the ones offered in the US.  Also note that vaccine efficacy will vary during the pandemic on its own


----------



## scubaphish

erockg said:


> That is awesome.  One of the OEM tips ripped and they just linked me to free tips to order:  https://www.devialet.com/en-us/true-wireless-earbuds/new-eartips-offer/


They say “newly redesigned”…are they different than your originals?


----------



## erockg

scubaphish said:


> They say “newly redesigned”…are they different than your originals?


I just ordered last night.  I'll post pics when I get them.  The originals are thin in comparison to Spinfits, ePros etc.  Hope the redesigned ones are better.  Free is free!  Maybe?


----------



## scubaphish

erockg said:


> I just ordered last night.  I'll post pics when I get them.  The originals are thin in comparison to Spinfits, ePros etc.  Hope the redesigned ones are better.  Free is free!  Maybe?


I just ordered, too…THANKS!


----------



## Branflakes

Hi everyone, been lurking around for a while.

I'm quite looking forward to seeing how the new Jabra Elite 7 and Sennheiser CX Plus perform, so I'm particularly interested in @C_Lindbergh's impressions on the CX Plus.

I feel there's a gap in the offering with no TWS below $/£200 (so nothing until high end) that offers good all-round performance with both ANC and AptX. I don't think there's any recent model besides the Cleer Ally Plus 2 that has AptX, a 5+ bands EQ and ANC, but the SQ reviews weren't that positive. Investing in high end doesn't seem worth it as it doesn't feel that mature a market yet, with many hugs still reported in this thread.

It's apparent that Qualcomm is trying to push for ANC as most of their latest SoCs have the feature integrated, and this should in theory make ANC a widespread feature very soon, but this hasn't happened yet. The Jabras and Sennheisers may be the first of many.

This aside, I've been quite satisfied upgrading from a pair of Soundpeats to the Galaxy Buds Pro, which I find really excellent on almost all fronts. I'm surprised they get so few mentions here, when they can be found for about the same price as the Melomania Touch.

In comparison, I found them much better implemented on the software side (instant connection Vs random connection issues, out of sync voice confirmations on the MT), better features (ANC, easy switch from PC to phone through connection the Galaxy app, wireless charging), better sound as well. The MT sounded way too bassy and most presets were useless or even awful for me (the immersive one). I liked them with some strong EQ correction, but the other issues made the Galaxy Buds Pro a much better choice to me. The only advantage was the AptX support, as it gives better video sync on my phone and is one of my key uses.


----------



## voicemaster

Branflakes said:


> Hi everyone, been lurking around for a while.
> 
> I'm quite looking forward to seeing how the new Jabra Elite 7 and Sennheiser CX Plus perform, so I'm particularly interested in @C_Lindbergh's impressions on the CX Plus.
> 
> ...


If you use Samsung phone, the galaxy buds pro is very good even with the lack of AptX. No sync issue at all. People said the ANC is weak but I tried them at a busy starbucks and they are plenty quiet for me. With music playing, I can very hardly hear outside noise. I just don't know why people need that much ANC really. Good call quality even inside noisy kitchen with all those ceiling exhaust fans blasting. I wish Samsung make a matte colored face plate instead of this super glossy looks tho.


----------



## HaliHarry

Branflakes said:


> Hi everyone, been lurking around for a while.
> 
> I'm quite looking forward to seeing how the new Jabra Elite 7 and Sennheiser CX Plus perform, so I'm particularly interested in @C_Lindbergh's impressions on the CX Plus.
> 
> ...


Not really!! Try NuraTrue


----------



## Juturna

I’m kinda mad at Sennheiser, it’s been almost a month since I sent my MTW2’s for a repair, and I don’t get why it should take this long for such a simple thing. One earbud stopped working, ok? It’s within warranty, the pair I bought were faulty from the start so this would be the second earbud they switch out. So either give me a new set or get me a new earbud.  

Ever since I bought the earbuds 2 months ago it’s been away at repair shops probably twice as long as I’ve had them and been able to use them for myself.


----------



## Tommy C (Sep 17, 2021)

Branflakes said:


> Hi everyone, been lurking around for a while.
> 
> I'm quite looking forward to seeing how the new Jabra Elite 7 and Sennheiser CX Plus perform, so I'm particularly interested in @C_Lindbergh's impressions on the CX Plus.
> 
> ...



If you're considering the Cleer Ally Plus 2 take a look at the Monolith M-TWE which comes with the Sonarworks app to personalize the sound and is much cheaper.
To the best of my knowledge it's the same set of TWS (OEM most likely) and has the same chipset.

EDIT: Actually the Cleer Ally Plus is the equivalent to the Monolith M-TWE. My bad.


----------



## HaliHarry (Sep 17, 2021)

Aw


----------



## HaliHarry

darveniza said:


> October 15 2021 release


Can you get a quick compare between Technics AZ70 and B&O EQ ?? I saw both of them in your collection. Thanks a lot


----------



## nekonhime

Juturna said:


> I’m kinda mad at Sennheiser, it’s been almost a month since I sent my MTW2’s for a repair, and I don’t get why it should take this long for such a simple thing. One earbud stopped working, ok? It’s within warranty, the pair I bought were faulty from the start so this would be the second earbud they switch out. So either give me a new set or get me a new earbud.
> 
> Ever since I bought the earbuds 2 months ago it’s been away at repair shops probably twice as long as I’ve had them and been able to use them for myself.


Where did you buy them? If you bought it from Amazon and within 30 just make a return then receive a new pair


----------



## jant71 (Sep 17, 2021)

Still keepin' and eye on JVC. Want them to get there but it has been a little slow. All the stuff is designed in Japan. Outside of the runners earphone being a really nice design they have been okay till the little A5T finally brought USB C and a great size and shape. The one on the left is the A11T which is an upgrade from the A10T adding more battery newer BT and aptX and ambient. They did not update the physical design and it shows. Wish they would and thinking they will get to it in the next round. Certainly sturdy but the squarish case can be more shapely and USB-C like the newer A5T is. The buttons should be on top. in front is ugly and more annoying to press. Other than the face they look and fit quite nice just need the button on top edge above the mic. But for $39.99 they do bring aptX, TWS+/role swapping, really good sound(balanced sig), the foam tips if you like those, good battery life(8 hours per) and BT5.1 Class 1 and IPX5. You can control everything on board. Ambient is amplified nicely so you hears things well and cleanly except for a slight bit of hiss. Solid implementation for the price. The connection, battery, sound, ambient are all well done and a nice deal. If they up the case and control design they will have such a solid under $50 model.

They are a little better as far the the environmentally friendly packaging being mostly paper. The case wrap, tip bag and even the battery contact pieces are all paper. The packaging, nice tips, and the software side and performance are all sweet even in this fast moving market. The clunky case with micro USB  and the clunky buttons are the relics letting it down but at least I know they should be ditching that and making them more modern with the next round esp. based on the latest model that came after it. I'll keep checking them out till they get the whole package right  They still get good reviews for the most part.
https://www.bestbuy.com/site/reviews/jvc-marshmallow-true-wireless-in-ear-headphones-blue/684496


----------



## Branflakes

Thanks @Tommy C and @HaliHarry for the suggestions.

I've noticed the Monolith but it's previous gen and also not available over here. There are a few models using this OEM template, in fact even Qualcomm's reference implementation for the QCC5141 (which the Ally Plus 2 use) is based on it.
https://www.qualcomm.com/products/qcc5141-earbud-reference-design

Regarding the Nuratrue, maybe I'm just prejudiced. They're interesting for sure, but I don't like not knowing what their sound signature is, but I could be wrong. I also don't like that you can only toggle between ANC and transparency. Most of the time, I need neither and this can save a lot of battery time.

@voicemaster the Buds Pro are my first experience with ANC and I'm also quite satisfied with their performance, including on the bus.


----------



## Tommy C (Sep 18, 2021)

Branflakes said:


> Thanks @Tommy C and @HaliHarry for the suggestions.
> 
> I've noticed the Monolith but it's previous gen and also not available over here. There are a few models using this OEM template, in fact even Qualcomm's reference implementation for the QCC5141 (which the Ally Plus 2 use) is based on it.
> https://www.qualcomm.com/products/qcc5141-earbud-reference-design
> ...


Yeah, the Monolith are previous gen.
If you want something more up to date that has personal customized sound (HearID) you may want to take a look at the new Soundcore Liberty 2 Pro + which is V2 to the original model and while the design didn't change I find them very comfortable and reliable and they now have Ambient mode and support LDAC.
They are priced right and very good but obviously at this price point you have multiple options.

Re: sound signature, they are very balanced when the eq is flat. The default eq setting is plain terrible but luckily the eq options are endless.


----------



## clerkpalmer

scubaphish said:


> I just ordered, too…THANKS!


 New ones are much improved. Grip and stability are much better. Well worth the price!


----------



## pitch_black (Sep 18, 2021)

Very strange behavior on EQ….. i didn’t use it too much over the last few days. Case is at 86%, right earpiece at 100% and left I don’t know before when I take it out…. but now two beeps and it’s off…. now in case it says 0% - I’m not sure if this because it’s dead or actual 0%. But why? Why so sudden - very strange. Now I’ll try to leave it in the case for a while….

Update:
Left earpiece looks like dead….. won’t switch on automatically after charging 2 hours. If I press the touch area a few second it turned on first white then blue - then I can listen for about 10 seconds or so - still —% in the app then it suddenly turns off. Charging unsuccessful and so I couldn’t reset to factory setting neither. Almost 10 days holiday to go without headphones - well only one side 

I guess as soon I’m home this goes RMA and then buy the Devialet which I should have take in the first place anyway


----------



## pitch_black

Now I was able to make a reset but it’s no use. It looks like the battery in the left earbud is dead….. shows always „- -%“ no matter what will run for a few seconds then turn off 😫


----------



## scubaphish

pitch_black said:


> Now I was able to make a reset but it’s no use. It looks like the battery in the left earbud is dead….. shows always „- -%“ no matter what will run for a few seconds then turn off 😫


Can I make a post just to feel your pain?  Sorry dude, that would truly piss me off to no end.


----------



## rhsauer

There was an update to the iOS M&D Connect app this morning that seems to have fixed whatever was ailing the microphone on my MW08s.  Interestingly, the fix is in the app, but it's not a firmware update.


----------



## scubaphish

scubaphish said:


> Speaking of ear detection issues, I RMA’d my Gemini for that problem on Monday and new set is on UPS truck for delivery today. That’s a solid RMA process.  Man I really miss them, too.


Received my replacement unit. Findings, first time case was charged when first opened.  Auto pause still not really working, but whatever, that’s not why I chose the Gemini. Serial numbers start at P25 for buds which is possibly higher than my past buds which were P24; P03 for this case. Don’t think I have different ear tips than last set. 
Oh yeah, still sound amazing!
Not sure it means anything, just observations.


----------



## BooleanBones

pitch_black said:


> Very strange behavior on EQ….. i didn’t use it too much over the last few days. Case is at 86%, right earpiece at 100% and left I don’t know before when I take it out…. but now two beeps and it’s off…. now in case it says 0% - I’m not sure if this because it’s dead or actual 0%. But why? Why so sudden - very strange. Now I’ll try to leave it in the case for a while….
> 
> Update:
> Left earpiece looks like dead….. won’t switch on automatically after charging 2 hours. If I press the touch area a few second it turned on first white then blue - then I can listen for about 10 seconds or so - still —% in the app then it suddenly turns off. Charging unsuccessful and so I couldn’t reset to factory setting neither. Almost 10 days holiday to go without headphones - well only one side
> ...


Well, that sucks. @erockg was having some weird battery too issues this week and just exchanged his set.


----------



## cresny

clerkpalmer said:


> New ones are much improved. Grip and stability are much better. Well worth the price!


I had to backtrack a bit to find out what this is about, but I think if you got your Gemini after the reboot you already have the "new" eartips.


----------



## ricthaman

I am very curious; are the tips the only thing Devialet changed for the Gemini’s? I have a pair on the way from Devialet directly, should be here in monday.


----------



## erockg

pitch_black said:


> Very strange behavior on EQ….. i didn’t use it too much over the last few days. Case is at 86%, right earpiece at 100% and left I don’t know before when I take it out…. but now two beeps and it’s off…. now in case it says 0% - I’m not sure if this because it’s dead or actual 0%. But why? Why so sudden - very strange. Now I’ll try to leave it in the case for a while….
> 
> Update:
> Left earpiece looks like dead….. won’t switch on automatically after charging 2 hours. If I press the touch area a few second it turned on first white then blue - then I can listen for about 10 seconds or so - still —% in the app then it suddenly turns off. Charging unsuccessful and so I couldn’t reset to factory setting neither. Almost 10 days holiday to go without headphones - well only one side
> ...


When I got my pair at the B&O store here in Los Angeles, I opened them and my right earbud was at 0, Left at 100.  So I thought something was wrong and called support.  Then the right bud started to charge.  I was okay with this for a few days, but then the right clearly had a battery drain issue.  Every night I would charge them up to 100 and then in the morning the right but was at 80.  Took them in yesterday and exchanged them.  Opened the new pair in the store with the store manager and right there both new buds were at 100.  So far, I'm not having the battery train issue with any bud.  Fingers crossed!  I truly love them, and so far, B&O has been very kind and responsive with support.


----------



## erockg (Sep 18, 2021)

cresny said:


> I had to backtrack a bit to find out what this is about, but I think if you got your Gemini after the reboot you already have the "new" eartips.


If the tips that were on mine that ripped are the new one, then they are very thin and not that great compared to my after market collection.  I did get mine after the reboot.  Bummer.  Oh well, free is free.  It'll just be another set to throw in the lot


----------



## erockg

ricthaman said:


> I am very curious; are the tips the only thing Devialet changed for the Gemini’s? I have a pair on the way from Devialet directly, should be here in monday.


No, they fixed all the firmware issues.  I have the version they re-released and they are exceptional buds.  Definitely a favorite.


----------



## erockg

scubaphish said:


> Received my replacement unit. Findings, first time case was charged when first opened.  Auto pause still not really working, but whatever, that’s not why I chose the Gemini. Serial numbers start at P25 for buds which is possibly higher than my past buds which were P24; P03 for this case. Don’t think I have different ear tips than last set.
> Oh yeah, still sound amazing!
> Not sure it means anything, just observations.


I had that auto-pause issue a while ago.  Did the reset process and it (so far) has fixed the issue.  Since my tips ripped and I haven't gotten the new ones yet, I put on Large ePro tips and they're working really well.


----------



## scubaphish (Sep 18, 2021)

erockg said:


> I had that auto-pause issue a while ago.  Did the reset process and it (so far) has fixed the issue.  Since my tips ripped and I haven't gotten the new ones yet, I put on Large ePro tips and they're working really well.


I’ll do a reset and maybe one side will work; haven’t been able to get both sides to work consistently. Meh…small potatoes…I’m not stuck on an island in the Aegean with no music because my earphones are practically bricked!

man, I still love these little loudspeaker stereos in my head.

Edit: would you believe the auto pause is working now?!?!  I think they were embarrassed after I posted about them 🎧


----------



## C_Lindbergh (Sep 18, 2021)

Overall I'm pretty pleased by the Sennheiser CX Plus, they just work all the time unlike my CA MT's... No matter if we're talking about connection or the touch controls. The touch controls are fully customizable and the touch area is much larger compared to the MT's. For example, with the MT's i first have to tap them once to pause the music, and then three times again to enable the ambient mode, whereas it's a single tap on the CX plus.

However the Senn MTW2 is prob a better buy for most people since they've dropped in price quite a bit, I just personally prefer the case of the new CX plus (they also got APTX adaptive and you can use both earbuds individually).

But it wouldn't surprise if Sennheiser realeases a successor to the MTW2 next year...This hobby is very costly


----------



## TK33

C_Lindbergh said:


> Overall I'm pretty pleased by the Sennheiser CX Plus, they just work all the time unlike my CA MT's... No matter if we're talking about connection or the touch controls. The touch controls are fully customizable and the touch area is much larger compared to the MT's. For example, with the MT's i first have to tap them once to pause the music, and then three times again to enable the ambient mode, whereas it's a single tap on the CX plus.
> 
> However the Senn MTW2 is prob a better buy for most people since they've dropped in price quite a bit, I just personally prefer the case of the new CX plus (they also got APTX adaptive and you can use both earbuds individually).
> 
> But it wouldn't surprise if Sennheiser realeases a successor to the MTW2 next year...This hobby is very costly


Were you able to compare directly to the MTW2? Do they sound very similar? Curious how they compare soundwise as well as fit & comfort (obviously everyone is different).  My original MTWs were pretty comfortable tor me despite their large size.  Skipped the MTW2 waiting for an MTW3 but wondering how these new CX Plus compare.


----------



## C_Lindbergh (Sep 18, 2021)

TK33 said:


> Were you able to compare directly to the MTW2? Do they sound very similar? Curious how they compare soundwise as well as fit & comfort (obviously everyone is different).  My original MTWs were pretty comfortable tor me despite their large size.  Skipped the MTW2 waiting for an MTW3 but wondering how these new CX Plus compare.



I can't A/B test them, but from my memory the MTW2 definitely sounded a tiny bit better (mostly the soundstage) at least with the "High End Tuning" (maybe it will come to the CX plus as well?). But for me personally I prefer  the CX plus because of the case/Single earbud use/APTX adaptive (when I get a phone with that codec )

The comfort is similar I think, I'm not uncomfortable with either of them.

I've yet to test the CX plus with any APTX adaptive compatible device, maybe they'll improve a tiny bit more compared to the ordinary APTX?

I do look forward to the MTW3, if they can borrow some more tech from the IE300/900 they'll prob be a total blast.


----------



## Tommy C

Jabra 85t (beige color only) is 50% off on Amazon Canada which brings the price down to $115 USD.
A very tempting deal as my old Jabra is still going strong and although they are not known for their sq I find the sound very nice and the open design might be good for my needs nowadays.


----------



## TK33

C_Lindbergh said:


> I can't A/B test them, but from my memory the MTW2 definitely sounded a tiny bit better (mostly the soundstage) at least with the "High End Tuning" (maybe it will come to the CX plus as well?). But for me personally I prefer  the CX plus because of the case/Single earbud use/APTX adaptive (when I get a phone with that codec )
> 
> The comfort is similar I think, I'm not uncomfortable with either of them.
> 
> ...


Thanks. Hoping you're right.  Missed the part about single earbud use. Certainly an improvement.

I've found aptX adaptive to be a bit underwhelming and inconsistent in terms of implementation so far but hopefully they can work out the kinks (more on the source/phone side I think).


----------



## Tenlow

rhsauer said:


> There was an update to the iOS M&D Connect app this morning that seems to have fixed whatever was ailing the microphone on my MW08s.  Interestingly, the fix is in the app, but it's not a firmware update.


Yes, that seems to be the case indeed! I've just tried them again and called three different people. Two said it sounded "excellent" and one said "good". So, seems to be fixed, I guess. Strange that it could be fixed without a firmware update...


----------



## erockg

scubaphish said:


> I’ll do a reset and maybe one side will work; haven’t been able to get both sides to work consistently. Meh…small potatoes…I’m not stuck on an island in the Aegean with no music because my earphones are practically bricked!
> man, I still love these little loudspeaker stereos in my head.


These days I would truly love to be stuck on an island.


----------



## scubaphish

erockg said:


> These days I would truly love to be stuck on an island.


I am…island of Manhattan 🤣


----------



## erockg

scubaphish said:


> I am…island of Manhattan 🤣


Los Angeles can be an island pretty soon after last nights earthquake . I’d rather be in Manhattan!


----------



## rhsauer (Sep 18, 2021)

rhsauer said:


> There was an update to the iOS M&D Connect app this morning that seems to have fixed whatever was ailing the microphone on my MW08s.  Interestingly, the fix is in the app, but it's not a firmware update.


After further testing, the update to the iOS app seems to have fixed the low microphone volume and clarity on my iPhone, but my voice is still muffled when I use the earphones on the Voice Memo app on my MacBook.  Strange.


----------



## pitch_black

erockg said:


> These days I would truly love to be stuck on an island.


I am stuck on a island, unfortunately only with the right earbud of the pair.....


----------



## AudioBomb (Sep 18, 2021)

The issue with BT headphones is that we are dealing with electronics, lots of things that can get defective. I've just got a used 2 year old Nuraphone, hope it's not coming close to deadline :S


----------



## darveniza

pitch_black said:


> Very strange behavior on EQ….. i didn’t use it too much over the last few days. Case is at 86%, right earpiece at 100% and left I don’t know before when I take it out…. but now two beeps and it’s off…. now in case it says 0% - I’m not sure if this because it’s dead or actual 0%. But why? Why so sudden - very strange. Now I’ll try to leave it in the case for a while….
> 
> Update:
> Left earpiece looks like dead….. won’t switch on automatically after charging 2 hours. If I press the touch area a few second it turned on first white then blue - then I can listen for about 10 seconds or so - still —% in the app then it suddenly turns off. Charging unsuccessful and so I couldn’t reset to factory setting neither. Almost 10 days holiday to go without headphones - well only one side
> ...


Had this happen with a CA MT and a Devialet


----------



## clerkpalmer

Spent some time with the EQ, MW08 and PI7 today. The MW08 is going back even though I love the fit and build. They just don't sound good to me after back to back to back listening.  The others really blow them away. I'm torn on the EQ. Sound is so sweet but the fit is iffy. The Sony xm4 tips come closest to keeping them secure but it's still not great once you start moving. Finally the pi7 really shine over aptxhd but sq suffers any other way. They sound grainy over aptx and I get low volume on my samsung. However when I use the creative dongle and USB audio everything changes. Punchy. Dynamic. Loud. Clean. I can get a great fit with them and the sednas so they are keepers. That said I'm ready for a new toy.


----------



## HaliHarry

darveniza said:


> October 15 2021 release


Can you get a quick compare between Technics AZ70 and B&O EQ ?? I saw both of them in your collection. Thanks a lot


----------



## clerkpalmer

My  CA MT do not take phone calls even when connected. Any ideas?


----------



## J_3000

Im not sure has this been already talked about in the topic, but its just so many pages coming all the time, that I cant keep up. Can someone do a quick SQ comparison of the M&D MW07 Plus and MW08/MW08S? Im thinking about upgrading, app and updates would be great, but at the end SQ matters and I really dont know would it be worth it.


----------



## profusion

Is there a ranking somewhere of sub 100$ options for tws?


----------



## Tenlow (Sep 19, 2021)

J_3000 said:


> Im not sure has this been already talked about in the topic, but its just so many pages coming all the time, that I cant keep up. Can someone do a quick SQ comparison of the M&D MW07 Plus and MW08/MW08S? Im thinking about upgrading, app and updates would be great, but at the end SQ matters and I really dont know would it be worth it.


The MW08S are my favourite TWS right now. I tested them against all the big hitters and for me (!) they offer the best package all things considered. Very durable, excellent fit, great case, great sound, brilliant battery, good call quality, great Bluetooth connectivity and range, love the buttons and good enough ANC + Wireless Charging and aptx adaptive. And yes, having an app and firmware updates is a nice bonus to the MW07 Plus that you have, true.

That said, individually, you will find better ones for certain categories. You will find even better sounding ones (B&O EQ or B&W PI7 for example). You will find better ANC in the Sony WF-1000XM4 or the Bose Buds and better call quality in the Airpods Pro e.g. I just don't think there's a better pair as a whole package right now.

If you're solely after "audiophile" buds, then there are better ones out there. If great sound is enough with everything I mentioned on top, I can wholeheartedly recommend the MW08S! They are the ones I kept and will keep for the foreseeable future


----------



## darveniza

HaliHarry said:


> Can you get a quick compare between Technics AZ70 and B&O EQ ?? I saw both of them in your collection. Thanks a lot


The technics I used mostly for conference calls and consuming media. Noise canceling works well. But I prefer the sound signature of the EQ


----------



## darveniza

Tenlow said:


> The MW08S are my favourite TWS right now. I tested them against all the big hitters and for me (!) they offer the best package all things considered. Very durable, excellent fit, great case, great sound, brilliant battery, good call quality, great Bluetooth connectivity and range, love the buttons and good enough ANC + Wireless Charging and aptx adaptive. And yes, having an app and firmware updates is a nice bonus to the MW07 Plus that you have, true.
> 
> That said, individually, you will find better ones for certain categories. You will find even better sounding ones (B&O EQ or B&W PI7 for example). You will find better ANC in the Sony WF-1000XM4 or the Bose Buds and better call quality in the Airpods Pro e.g. I just don't think there's a better pair as a whole package right now.
> 
> If you're solely after "audiophile" buds, then there are better ones out there. If great sound is enough with everything I mentioned on top, I can wholeheartedly recommend the MW08S! They are the ones I kept and will keep for the foreseeable future


One item that still keep the  MW08, are the mics they are very good for calls, video calls, etc. When outdoors they exceed all other TWS. I think is the mic placement


----------



## J_3000

Tenlow said:


> The MW08S are my favourite TWS right now. I tested them against all the big hitters and for me (!) they offer the best package all things considered. Very durable, excellent fit, great case, great sound, brilliant battery, good call quality, great Bluetooth connectivity and range, love the buttons and good enough ANC + Wireless Charging and aptx adaptive. And yes, having an app and firmware updates is a nice bonus to the MW07 Plus that you have, true.
> 
> That said, individually, you will find better ones for certain categories. You will find even better sounding ones (B&O EQ or B&W PI7 for example). You will find better ANC in the Sony WF-1000XM4 or the Bose Buds and better call quality in the Airpods Pro e.g. I just don't think there's a better pair as a whole package right now.
> 
> If you're solely after "audiophile" buds, then there are better ones out there. If great sound is enough with everything I mentioned on top, I can wholeheartedly recommend the MW08S! They are the ones I kept and will keep for the foreseeable future


Thanks for the reply. I want Apt-X good battery, good call quality and good sound. The M&D build quality, battery and call quality on the MW07 Plus is really good.


Just dont know, is it worth the upgrade.


----------



## scubaphish

J_3000 said:


> Thanks for the reply. I want Apt-X good battery, good call quality and good sound. The M&D build quality, battery and call quality on the MW07 Plus is really good.
> 
> 
> Just dont know, is it worth the upgrade.


I think some people here have found the upgrade worth it. From my experience and my own obsessive nature once I get an idea of an earphone in my head, unless/until you try it yourself you won’t have the answer to that question.

For example, I tried the MTW2, Sony XM4, Klipsch T5 II ANC (and nonANC), MW08, PI7, PI5, CA MT, and Devialet Gemini before I finally decided on the Gemini. No amount of feedback from others, (as valuable and helpful as it is) would get the idea of trying them, out of my head. Just sayin’. As others here say, you mileage may vary. 



If you can try them out, I recommend you do. They’ve got a good return policy if you buy direct.


----------



## Tenlow

J_3000 said:


> Thanks for the reply. I want Apt-X good battery, good call quality and good sound. The M&D build quality, battery and call quality on the MW07 Plus is really good.
> 
> 
> Just dont know, is it worth the upgrade.


That I don't know as I've never had nor heard the MW07 Plus. However, I've read that at least on the technical side (Bluetooth range e.g.) the MW07 Plus were a bit limited. I would assume that the MW08S also sound better but maybe someone else, who owns or has heard both, can comment on that


----------



## rhsauer (Sep 19, 2021)

Tenlow said:


> That I don't know as I've never had nor heard the MW07 Plus. However, I've read that at least on the technical side (Bluetooth range e.g.) the MW07 Plus were a bit limited. I would assume that the MW08S also sound better but maybe someone else, who owns or has heard both, can comment on that


I think the MW08 sounds a bit better than the MW07 Plus, perhaps because I'm using an iPhone and the MW07 Plus didn't have AAC.  (Could be in my head.) 

Also, on an unrelated note, I've found that the bass of the MW08 is tamed a bit (in a good way) if you listen without ANC -- assuming you're in an environment where you don't need ANC.  When you DO need ANC (for example, when you're on a plane or a subway) the extra bass is appreciated -- and when you DON'T need ANC, the extra battery life is also appreciated.  I think the slight change in sound signature when moving from ANC to no-ANC may be intentional for that reason.  Fortunately, the MW08 control scheme makes it very easy to switch ANC on and off without losing other controls (like volume or next track).


----------



## Aevum (Sep 19, 2021)

1 more comfort buds pros for 60 euros from amazon spain, im really tempted.


----------



## jant71 (Sep 19, 2021)

Aevum said:


> 1 more comfort buds for 60 euros from amazon spain, im really tempted.


Not any kind of deal unless you mean the Comfo Buds Pro. Still check ebay cause we have an Amazon deal here $95 - $35 which is $60 but on ebay you can get them for a little cheaper. Always pays to shop around anyway.


----------



## Aevum

jant71 said:


> Not any kind of deal unless you mean the Comfo Buds Pro. Still check ebay cause we have an Amazon deal here $95 - $35 which is $60 but on ebay you can get them for a little cheaper. Always pays to shop around anyway.



sorry, edited, they are the comfo buds pro.


----------



## dweaver

Those Comfo Buds Z look very interesting for sleep...


----------



## Tommy C

Aevum said:


> 1 more comfort buds pros for 60 euros from amazon spain, im really tempted.



Are these any good? 
Reviews are pretty meh and they have no eq in app as far as I know.


----------



## dweaver

These look interesting for sleeping.
https://usa.1more.com/products/1more-comfobuds-z-true-wireless-in-ear-headphones

Have to say, I waiting excitedly for the Technics AZ60. After all my latest purchases the AZ70 is still one of the best IEMs I own and that AZ60 looks like a solid upgrade in every way possible. Now just have to hope they didn't mess up the sound LOL.

Think I am going to stop looking at new stuff for now. Everything I have looked at will just be a rehash of something I already own. Sometime next year that AZ60 will make it to Canada and then I might bite. But for now I think any other purchase is just wasting money. Good lord, I own so many TWS I can almost wear a different model for each day of the week...


----------



## jant71

Final will be releasing their own TWS model. Not in collaboration with anyone or under the "ag" brand...




Not much is known yet but because they are not quite ready yet. They hope to be out before the year ends. One piece of info is that they will have a 6mm driver exclusive for True wireless. Being numbered 3000 and also 6mm this might just be a new for wireless version of the A3000 f-core DU driver.


----------



## jant71 (Sep 19, 2021)

dweaver said:


> These look interesting for sleeping.
> https://usa.1more.com/products/1more-comfobuds-z-true-wireless-in-ear-headphones


Damn! 2.7 grams has got to be the lightest yet. Probably can't feel em. But lame specs. BT5.0 and SBC/AAC only. We know the "full range armature" is more about the size than it being a good one for the price these go for. Would love it they made the size and small weight and really gave it great specs and SQ. Don't need ANC or sensors and nothing extra if that will make them be smaller but they won't make this into high end. Only that Jabra hearing aid/TWS combo seems to fill that bill. Although that is a pretty penny and harder to get being as much hearing aid as TWS. Kinda like Goldilocks and the three bears. One that is a bit too low and one maybe too high and we need one somewhere in the middle. Super small but also super good.


----------



## Aevum

btw, the Melomania touch are still a dumpster fire when it comes to stability and connection ? i have the AKG 400 and im kind of tired of pulling them out of the case and them being dead. also i dont get a decent seal with them.


----------



## Tommy C

Aevum said:


> btw, the Melomania touch are still a dumpster fire when it comes to stability and connection ? i have the AKG 400 and im kind of tired of pulling them out of the case and them being dead. also i dont get a decent seal with them.


I have been using and testing mine constantly as I’m still able to return and so far I was able to overcome most issues by unpairing and pairing them based on suggestions here and from Amazon. With that being said, I feel like they are way too bassy for me and I actually like bass so compared to the AKG N400 they are bass monsters. If you don’t mind the shape which is actually very comfortable I think the new Soundcore Liberty 2 Pro+ is a better buy.  I have both of them of if you have any questions.


----------



## Tommy C (Sep 19, 2021)

jant71 said:


> Damn! 2.7 grams has got to be the lightest yet. Probably can't feel em. But lame specs. BT5.0 and SBC/AAC only. We know the "full range armature" is more about the size than it being a good one for the price these go for. Would love it they made the size and small weight and really gave it great specs and SQ. Don't need ANC or sensors and nothing extra if that will make them be smaller but they won't make this into high end. Only that Jabra hearing aid/TWS combo seems to fill that bill. Although that is a pretty penny and harder to get being as much hearing aid as TWS. Kinda like Goldilocks and the three bears. One that is a bit too low and one maybe too high and we need one somewhere in the middle. Super small but also super good.


If the BA driver is tuned properly, and that's a big if, I think it's quite an interesting product at $81 (with coupon) and not a bass monster like so many TWS nowadays.

EDIT: poor battery life and barely any bass according to this review.


----------



## xuan87

Bought the Nuratrue over the weekend, so just sharing some first impressions and thoughts. Will not be going a full review but might elaborate later on with more thoughts after getting more listening times in.

The good:
The difference between neutral mode (no EQ applied) and personalized mode (custom personalized EQ applied) is enormous. Kinda reminded me of the Audeze iSine10. In neutral mode, it's one of the worse earphones I've ever listened to. In personalized mode, it sounded really really good.

Connection is pretty solid. Didn't experience any serious connection disruption in crowded places, only a couple of small blips which is more than acceptable to me. 

The app is well designed. To be fair, the only other TWS companion app that I've used is the Sony one, but I will to have the Nuratrue one is much more user friendly.

The touch controls work really well. I like that for a double tap command, a different tone is played for the second tap, to indicate that the earphones registered it as the second tap in a double tap command, versus it as a second single tap.  

Immersion mode (bass boost) works pretty well. It doesn't feel like a simple bass boost, but really feel like an attempt to create a live environment. I tuned it around 70%.

The bad (but not deal breaker):
The ANC is pretty bad. While on a bus without any music playing, significant amount of noise is being played through, which tells me that the ANC is not properly cancelling the noise and is actually playing some of the noise frequency through. I opted to switch it off.

The social mode (or passthrough mode) works but I feel it should increase the volume of outside noises more.

You can either switch between ANC on and social mode on, but cannot switch between social mode on and both off, or ANC on and both off. Pretty weird decision made by Nura here.

Dealbreaker:
None

Other minor flaws/missing features that I found:
My earpiece cannot fit properly inside the charge when I used the foam tip included, so it will not be charged. This could have been mitigated by designed a larger cavity for the eartip in the case, or have the case top press down on the earpieces when closed, to ensure that the charging pins are in contact. Something to take note when doing tip rolling.

There is also no option for you to further EQ your personalized profile. Since I never EQ any of my earphones, this is of no consequence to me, but just a note to others that you cannot modify the sound to your liking.

What I plan to further explore:
I'm curious how big of a difference the personalized mode can vary so I plan to test that by having my brother create a profile on my app, and then I will swap between his and my profiles and I'll listen for the difference.

Also, since I get to store 3 profiles, I plan to also create 3 personalized profiles and keep the best sounding one to my ears.  

Will I recommend it?
Judged solely on its own, Nuratrue gets a resounding yes for my recommendation. However, the issue is that the Sony WF1000XM3 is available in my country for a much lower price ($193 vs $105-$140) and when comparing the two, I feel that the Sony TWS gives better bang for the buck. Sound quality wise is roughly on par, and it has much better ANC and passthrough than the Nuratrue.


----------



## bladefd

Aevum said:


> btw, the Melomania touch are still a dumpster fire when it comes to stability and connection ? i have the AKG 400 and im kind of tired of pulling them out of the case and them being dead. also i dont get a decent seal with them.


MT is giving me grief even on the replacement pair I got just a few weeks ago. The left side on my MT won't charge. It drives me crazy to see it charged 3% to 5% everytime I pull out the left side from the case. I guess I will have to reach out to customer support again.. It's frustrating.

I don't recommend these earbuds anymore. The sound is very good, but they have too many QA issues.


----------



## AudioBomb (Sep 20, 2021)

xuan87 said:


> Bought the Nuratrue over the weekend, so just sharing some first impressions and thoughts. Will not be going a full review but might elaborate later on with more thoughts after getting more listening times in.
> 
> The good:
> The difference between neutral mode (no EQ applied) and personalized mode (custom personalized EQ applied) is enormous. Kinda reminded me of the Audeze iSine10. In neutral mode, it's one of the worse earphones I've ever listened to. In personalized mode, it sounded really really good.
> ...


If sound quality was on par with 1000X M3, I would have sold them same minute. I would say they best SONY by 50%. Bass quality/tightness, mids (recessed on Sonys, even 1000x M4), airier highs, instrument separation and fundamentally SOUNDSTAGE (the difference here is huge, that's why the capital letters).

Agree with ANC, but in not so loud environments, I use it and it works.

* I would advise you to enable High Gain, so that you can get the most out of them. Left earpiece - 1 touch and disable sound normalisation. Also for an epic experience install and enable XTREME Music PRO sound enhancements. This is not EQ, its making Android sound better (no root needed). Paid app though. And finnaly, if you know how to, enable aptxHD. I don't advise anything above 50% on IMMERSION MODE or you loose micro-detail and consequently some separation. Don't go crazy with bass if you want these to give you best performance. And please, don't downgrade to1000x M3 and even 1000X M4, unless you favour ANC over SQ.

Anything, call daddy.


----------



## FYLegend

Are the Galaxy Buds2 a good upgrade to the original Buds+ or should I wait for something else? Currently 169$ CAD with a free wireless charger.

Currently my daily drivers are Galaxy Buds+ and the Soundpeats T2 (for commuting) which are largely opposites in terms of tuning. I prefer the detailed sound of the Buds+ except that there could be more presence in the bass and lower mids. The T2's ANC is great at removing mid and low frequencies though less for high frequencies - is the Buds2 ANC ahead or behind the T2?


----------



## stenog

FYLegend said:


> Are the Galaxy Buds2 a good upgrade to the original Buds+ or should I wait for something else? Currently 169$ CAD with a free wireless charger.
> 
> Currently my daily drivers are Galaxy Buds+ and the Soundpeats T2 (for commuting) which are largely opposites in terms of tuning. I prefer the detailed sound of the Buds+ except that there could be more presence in the bass and lower mids. The T2's ANC is great at removing mid and low frequencies though less for high frequencies - is the Buds2 ANC ahead or behind the T2?


Crinacle has an answer to that, if you don't mind his style


----------



## Aevum

xuan87 said:


> Bought the Nuratrue over the weekend, so just sharing some first impressions and thoughts. Will not be going a full review but might elaborate later on with more thoughts after getting more listening times in.
> 
> The good:
> The difference between neutral mode (no EQ applied) and personalized mode (custom personalized EQ applied) is enormous. Kinda reminded me of the Audeze iSine10. In neutral mode, it's one of the worse earphones I've ever listened to. In personalized mode, it sounded really really good.
> ...


just out of curiosity, 

Was it nura which wanted to have the TWS as a subscription service for 5 bucks a month and your TWS would stop working if you stopped paying ?


----------



## xuan87

Aevum said:


> just out of curiosity,
> 
> Was it nura which wanted to have the TWS as a subscription service for 5 bucks a month and your TWS would stop working if you stopped paying ?



Hmmm I'm not aware of any subscription service that I have to pay.


----------



## chinmie

Aevum said:


> just out of curiosity,
> 
> Was it nura which wanted to have the TWS as a subscription service for 5 bucks a month and your TWS would stop working if you stopped paying ?



yes, there's news about that, apparently it's for a product called Nurabuds, different from the Nuratrue

https://www.engadget.com/nura-nurabuds-subscription-wireless-earbuds-132117967.html


----------



## AudioBomb (Sep 20, 2021)

chinmie said:


> yes, there's news about that, apparently it's for a product called Nurabuds, different from the Nuratrue
> 
> https://www.engadget.com/nura-nurabuds-subscription-wireless-earbuds-132117967.html


Won't sell any. Now they think they are ROLAND or something.  At least ROLAND offers you a world of sounds and software for $200/Year (PRO). And even though, it's too much.


----------



## soullinker20

scubaphish said:


> I think some people here have found the upgrade worth it. From my experience and my own obsessive nature once I get an idea of an earphone in my head, unless/until you try it yourself you won’t have the answer to that question.
> 
> For example, I tried the MTW2, Sony XM4, Klipsch T5 II ANC (and nonANC), MW08, PI7, PI5, CA MT, and Devialet Gemini before I finally decided on the Gemini. No amount of feedback from others, (as valuable and helpful as it is) would get the idea of trying them, out of my head. Just sayin’. As others here say, you mileage may vary.
> If you can try them out, I recommend you do. They’ve got a good return policy if you buy direct.



Hello, how's the battery life on your devialet gemini?


----------



## deuter

Anyone have some TWE to sell, willing to post to India.
Pm me the details.


----------



## tiagopinto

AudioBomb said:


> I've just got Nura Nuraloop and am more than impressed. Have tried almost everything that exists wireless, including SONY wf-1000X M4, the Nuraloop are on another league. First Bluetooth headphone I've heard that HAS instrument separation, 3D imaging and a large soundstage. Pretty much like a good triple driver like the FLC8n, etc. Detail is awesome, treble is very defined and airy, polished and bass pretty strong if you choose so. Tight, plenty of definition/texture. I'm a music producer and can perfectly use these as studio monitors at night while playing, letting the final mixing/mastering for my ADAM A7X monitors. It's how good this thing sounds, it's unbeleavable.
> 
> The SONYs can't even come close. No separation (typical on BT headphones), small soundstage, boomy bass, recessed mids. Vocals on Nura are exceptional.
> 
> ...



Good to see a fellow countryman around here. I often feel like the odd man amongst my friends with my “controlled” headphone craze. Don’t know how international this feeling gets but I guess it’s more emphasized in a smaller country with less “purchasing power”.


----------



## jant71

Tommy C said:


> If the BA driver is tuned properly, and that's a big if, I think it's quite an interesting product at $81 (with coupon) and not a bass monster like so many TWS nowadays.
> 
> EDIT: poor battery life and barely any bass according to this review.


Sony did a pricier one. 1More have done a single armature before. Others have. Have any really been good? Interesting but knew going in it wouldn't be a keeper. I'd take the JVC I just got over it for sound any day of the week. I did get them for free but a $40 over achiever is better than an $80 underachiever. They put decent to okay single armatures in under $100 TWS and they all are forgettable.


----------



## profusion

jant71 said:


> Sony did a pricier one. 1More have done a single armature before. Others have. Have any really been good? Interesting but knew going in it wouldn't be a keeper. I'd take the JVC I just got over it for sound any day of the week. I did get them for free but a $40 over achiever is better than an $80 underachiever. They put decent to okay single armatures in under $100 TWS and they all are forgettable.


Which are the JVC?


----------



## scubaphish

soullinker20 said:


> Hello, how's the battery life on your devialet gemini?


I haven’t run this set down to 0 yet but I got 2.5 hours out of 50% with ANC on.


----------



## voicemaster

jant71 said:


> Sony did a pricier one. 1More have done a single armature before. Others have. Have any really been good? Interesting but knew going in it wouldn't be a keeper. I'd take the JVC I just got over it for sound any day of the week. I did get them for free but a $40 over achiever is better than an $80 underachiever. They put decent to okay single armatures in under $100 TWS and they all are forgettable.


I know Mifo07 BA version is a single BA that sounds good and not bass heavy. But at higher volume, the driver do distort on certain low to mid low frequency. But it is quite old now and doesn't have any new features whatsoever. Just a good battery life, decent call quality and connection.


----------



## jant71 (Sep 20, 2021)

profusion said:


> Which are the JVC?


The A11T. The new one. Not the identical looking older A10T which has half the battery life and no aptX. Was gonna get into it today anyway.

So, I ran them in and tested them out and did some comparing. I used aptX and settled on Bludio oval tips. These would have the JVC house sound for TWS(I have had 5 JVC TWS and 8 wireless models). I had the A5T first and it sounds big but not huge and is in your face and fun. It follows but the aptX adds to the SQ as the driver should some as well. Not quite the same as the A5t has a 6mm and the 11T has a 5.8mm driver. You still have that big pretty bold and in your face sound but the 11T pushes the mids and treble up more so it is not the bass focused smoother and politer towards the treble type of sound. Even had an EQ profile saved for the pricier Victor Studio TWS which, while said by some to sound like and be on par with the MTW2, was that type of signature. The A11T on that profile loaded up clearly has a more evident high end and needed that toned down. I can hear and appreciate the more forward mids vs. the A5T.

It takes what I found fun in the A5T but adds quality. The detail and clarity is more than good for the price, The bass and treble extension improve. The bass is nicely separated out with good lows with more decay and weight but up higher the bass is speedy and tight and the earphones have good pace and energy. The mids are up front and fairly sweet and more intelligible. The treble is tight and not smeared or grainy and sounds pretty natural in some ways just isn't high end quality.

One thing JVC can do is good timbre. These are cheap but are worth mentioning here. Not gonna have epic timbre like a good JVC woody but there is a good blend of "right" and fun here. A hint of what JVC can do that you can appreciate for the price. A certain something. Not like an expensive earphone but still things sound like they should. These are something like the Koss 60 Ohm. Not a giant killer but something you can always go to and appreciate and even if not better it has a sound you can like it even vs. better stuff. The JVC also sound decently true to device and EQ nicely.

The JVC A5t(mine are the Z55T UK/CA) is getting quite good reviews so far and it a good budget set but only SBC and no features. I have had the $150 Victor Studio model. I currently still have the top AT model with a foam mod for better SQ and the Nuarl N6 Pro 2 which is certainly in line for the king of $150 SQ title. The little JVC is a fighter. The fun aspects is as good as any. The detail is above the price and can be competitive. They can't run with the Nuarl soundstage with it's HDSS but I hear as the better value in the SQ dept. Not a giant killer but if just based on SQ alone the biggers boys show some diminishing returns(remeb. aptX to aptX) and they have that Koss like enjoyability factor. From memory but I think I like the mids and treble better than the Victor model. Bass is more fun but not quite the detail,clarity, and quality down low but the extension is there.

The ambient is more than decent(bout as good as the Victor) and the sound is better than the price. The fit is easy, stable and comfy with no fuss and no fins needed for me. They are not handsome, the buttons are too hard to press and should not be on the front and the case is micro-USB. They need to update on the physical side. They do overachieve in SQ for the $39.99 you can get them for esp. with the right tips and EQ.


----------



## jant71 (Sep 20, 2021)

voicemaster said:


> I know Mifo07 BA version is a single BA that sounds good and not bass heavy. But at higher volume, the driver do distort on certain low to mid low frequency. But it is quite old now and doesn't have any new features whatsoever. Just a good battery life, decent call quality and connection.


Well, those are over $100 and "good' is not really good and as you mentioned the distortion. Is that the one where the dynamic version of it was more favored? I did say forgettable and those actually seem to fit the bill as one we have forgotten. Still don't think we have had a real good under $100 BA equipped model

Cheaper armatures have problem extending on both ends, distortion and or peakiness at higher volumes. Even if tuned well they kinda fade at the high and low ends still and are never really good. There are good single armatures and armature based earphone. My avatar is one but it is a $200 earphone. Not sure how they can put a good armature and tune it well and do all the other stuff and come in for the $99. Not a surprise we haven't seen a really good one. Though this came off more  that we have no tiny inexpensive earphones being really good and not so much about armatures.  I would like one of those with a good driver(of any type) and SQ.


----------



## darveniza

FYLegend said:


> Are the Galaxy Buds2 a good upgrade to the original Buds+ or should I wait for something else? Currently 169$ CAD with a free wireless charger.
> 
> Currently my daily drivers are Galaxy Buds+ and the Soundpeats T2 (for commuting) which are largely opposites in terms of tuning. I prefer the detailed sound of the Buds+ except that there could be more presence in the bass and lower mids. The T2's ANC is great at removing mid and low frequencies though less for high frequencies - is the Buds2 ANC ahead or behind the T2?


They are very good. I think much better than the Live and Bud +


----------



## Juturna (Sep 20, 2021)

I just got a new pair of Sennheiser MTW2's as an under-warranty replacement... and I'm really thinking about whether I should sell them (they're completely new, unbroken seal on the plastic around the box etc) and just get the Geminis, Klipsch T5 II ANC, the B&O EQ's, or just open them and use them (I did enjoy my first pair except for the fact that.... it broke) and maybe buy the Nuratrues?

What do y'all think?


----------



## ricthaman

So my set of Gemini’s arrived. My brief first impressions are overwhelmingly positive, apart from one thing. For reference; I’ve had first hand experience with B&O EQ, XM4, B&O E8 2.0, Grado GT220, Hifiman TWS800, B&W PI7, Airpods Pro, Audio-Technica ATH-CKS5TW, Bose Soundsport free, Galaxy Buds and Cambridge Audio Melomania Touch.

So far, SQ is very impressive. When the music calls for it, it’s really like having a small sub in there but only in a good way. Very nicely executed. And the soundstage is very nice, they sound way bigger than they let you believe (although 10mm is rather large for a tws). ‘High excursion driver‘ sounds very credible, so to speak. The ANC is surprisingly effective; I wasn’t expecting that at all as I found the ANC of the EQ rather disappointing and even the XM4 ANC felt a bit underwhelming to me (But this is from memory now).

One thing I am struggling with a bit is comfort. They‘re executed very comfortable, I can notice there’s no pressure weirdness going on in my head while wearing them even when I’m eating or drinking. That, to me, is quite impressive as all IEM’s do this with me. However, they lean a bit too much against my ear resulting in some sore spotting (but that’s probably just my ears) so I am still experimenting with a nice way of inserting them.

lastly; technically they work like a charm. Connection has been stellar so far, and the app (iOS) works perfectly, and they pop-up as a single device in my BT settings. That’s more than the CA MT can say.

cheers!


----------



## BigZ12 (Sep 20, 2021)

I'm quite impressed with Apple Music and Airpods Pro on iOS15 with Spatial Audio.
Wider soundstage, better separation, deeper and punchier? bass, mids/vocals more from in front (almost like they are standing in front of you singing).
Used this settings: (see pics)

Edit: The Spatial Audio head tracking is important to turn off with music. (it's under Accessibility - Airpods)


----------



## BooleanBones

BigZ12 said:


> I'm quite impressed with Apple Music and Airpods Pro on iOS with Spatial Audio.
> Wider soundstage, wider separation, deeper and punchier? bass, mids/vocals more from in front (almost like they are standing in front of you singing).
> Used this settings: (see pics)


Using stock tips?


----------



## BigZ12

BooleanBones said:


> Using stock tips?


Switching between the ePro and Comply tips.


----------



## scubaphish

BigZ12 said:


> I'm quite impressed with Apple Music and Airpods Pro on iOS15 with Spatial Audio.
> Wider soundstage, better separation, deeper and punchier? bass, mids/vocals more from in front (almost like they are standing in front of you singing).
> Used this settings: (see pics)
> 
> Edit: The Spatial Audio head tracking is important to turn off with music. (it's under Accessibility - Airpods)


I’ve been looking for that head tracking setting…thanks a lot


----------



## BigZ12

scubaphish said:


> I’ve been looking for that head tracking setting…thanks a lot


Happy to help.
There's a similar setting under Accessibility - Airpods on my Apple TV 4k.


----------



## soullinker20

ricthaman said:


> So my set of Gemini’s arrived. My brief first impressions are overwhelmingly positive, apart from one thing. For reference; I’ve had first hand experience with B&O EQ, XM4, B&O E8 2.0, Grado GT220, Hifiman TWS800, B&W PI7, Airpods Pro, Audio-Technica ATH-CKS5TW, Bose Soundsport free, Galaxy Buds and Cambridge Audio Melomania Touch.
> 
> So far, SQ is very impressive. When the music calls for it, it’s really like having a small sub in there but only in a good way. Very nicely executed. And the soundstage is very nice, they sound way bigger than they let you believe (although 10mm is rather large for a tws). ‘High excursion driver‘ sounds very credible, so to speak. The ANC is surprisingly effective; I wasn’t expecting that at all as I found the ANC of the EQ rather disappointing and even the XM4 ANC felt a bit underwhelming to me (But this is from memory now).
> 
> ...



it's one of the reasons I couldn't let go my geminis. For me they really hit the spot aesthetically - not too big and don't protrude that much. has a very good open sound. ANC is impressive too. Compared to xm4, they're both equal in cancelling out low freqs. for me but the xm4 cancels out just a bit more on the mid to high freqs. I do prefer its sound over xm4. I just like the longevity of the xm4 (given its size). I feel like after the April update of the geminis, it uses more battery. I watched snyder's JL but wasn't able to finish it on the geminis.

I'm lucky i do not have any comfort/fit issues with both. I just use the large tips and i'm set and done.


----------



## nekonhime

I just received the Klipsch T5 II anc today and I was quite impress as I prefer the sound profile over the xm4, mw 08 and nuratrue. The sound of the T5 II is more clear, more focus on mid and high overall and not bass monster like the nuratrue. The anc is quite weak but better than the nuratrue and on par with the mw08.


----------



## AudioBomb (Sep 20, 2021)

nekonhime said:


> I just received the Klipsch T5 II anc today and I was quite impress as I prefer the sound profile over the xm4, mw 08 and nuratrue. The sound of the T5 II is more clear, more focus on mid and high overall and not bass monster like the nuratrue. The anc is quite weak but better than the nuratrue and on par with the mw08.


That's interesting. Do you feel highs are airier, with better definition than Nura Trues? What about instrument separation?


----------



## nekonhime

AudioBomb said:


> That's interesting. Do you feel highs are airier, with better definition than Nura Trues?


I will say the high is cleaner than the nuratrue


----------



## AudioBomb

nekonhime said:


> I will say the high is cleaner than the nuratrue


Well, let me test Nuraphone first and then I see


----------



## nekonhime

AudioBomb said:


> Well, let me test Nuraphone first and then I see


Good luck as mine have gone crazy in the first day of testing lol


----------



## AudioBomb

nekonhime said:


> Good luck as mine have gone crazy in the first day of testing lol


lol, yeah, that was weird.


----------



## AudioBomb (Sep 20, 2021)

But I strongly suggest that for better clarity in the highs, that you set Immersion Mode to 50% (no more). You can't go wild with bass on these or you lose micro-detail. And even at 50% bass is pretty strong. What you earn in general performance is well worth it. Controlled bass, cleaner mids and highs, better sense of separation. I was at 80% at first (too excited) and now this is another headphone. I also found that just a tiny bit of EQ in the highs makes them shine. Since I've found the sweet spot, I wouldn't try anything else, I'm happy, but Nuraphones were sent already.

Generally speaking, these Nura Trues are oustanding, with the exception of ANC, but I usually listen in quiet environments and on that scenario it works perfectly.


----------



## rhsauer

scubaphish said:


> I haven’t run this set down to 0 yet but I got 2.5 hours out of 50% with ANC on.


The Gemini's published specs estimate 6 hours with ANC on -- so 2.5 would be disappointing.  How low was the battery at that point?


----------



## scubaphish

rhsauer said:


> The Gemini's published specs estimate 6 hours with ANC on -- so 2.5 would be disappointing.  How low was the battery at that point?


Yeah, they aren’t performing to advertised rates. I emailed Devialet about it and they said they were working on a firmware update; hopefully for release in Q4.


----------



## dhomes

I use a pair of B&W PI5 for the gym and they are great for that specific use, but I'd rather still used a wired headphone connected to a ES100 or similar rather than a wireless earbud most of the time


----------



## nekonhime

dhomes said:


> I use a pair of B&W PI5 for the gym and they are great for that specific use, but I'd rather still used a wired headphone connected to a ES100 or similar rather than a wireless earbud most of the time


If you are a iem or wired earbuds destroyer like me, you will appreciate the fact that tws have been evolved in both quality and sound wise.


----------



## Luke Skywalker

ricthaman said:


> So my set of Gemini’s arrived. My brief first impressions are overwhelmingly positive, apart from one thing. For reference; I’ve had first hand experience with B&O EQ, XM4, B&O E8 2.0, Grado GT220, Hifiman TWS800, B&W PI7, Airpods Pro, Audio-Technica ATH-CKS5TW, Bose Soundsport free, Galaxy Buds and Cambridge Audio Melomania Touch.
> 
> So far, SQ is very impressive. When the music calls for it, it’s really like having a small sub in there but only in a good way. Very nicely executed. And the soundstage is very nice, they sound way bigger than they let you believe (although 10mm is rather large for a tws). ‘High excursion driver‘ sounds very credible, so to speak. The ANC is surprisingly effective; I wasn’t expecting that at all as I found the ANC of the EQ rather disappointing and even the XM4 ANC felt a bit underwhelming to me (But this is from memory now).
> 
> ...


So I love the Geminis... Music sounds just fantastic and the ANC seems to be on par with my Bose buds.  However, I've also had like a clicking/popping thing going on in the right bud no matter what tips I use.  I can't run wearing them because I get like a "clunk clunk."  And the case... I wish it was a little bit more solid and less prone to popping open. 

But that sound... Amazing


----------



## EMINENT

AudioBomb said:


> Well, let me test Nuraphone first and then I see


lol, why are you playing with a Nuraphone when you have an LCD4?

I really loved/hated it. The ear probes weren't an issue at first, but became an annoyance after some time of use, say after a couple hours. They sounded great, but the Immersion mode always had me wondering what is this song really suppose to sound like? Plus the personalized profile was inconsistent and it varied each time I did it. Some sounding warm, others bright etc. These things were ultimately why I moved on. Same with the H95, I couldn't get it sounding as good as Nuraphone through the presets and eq so I sent them back. Now I have an order in for an LCD5 and don't know what the hell i'm doing.


----------



## AudioBomb (Sep 21, 2021)

EMINENT said:


> lol, why are you playing with a Nuraphone when you have an LCD4?
> 
> I really loved/hated it. The ear probes weren't an issue at first, but became an annoyance after some time of use, say after a couple hours. They sounded great, but the Immersion mode always had me wondering what is this song really suppose to sound like? Plus the personalized profile was inconsistent and it varied each time I did it. Some sounding warm, others bright etc. These things were ultimately why I moved on. Same with the H95, I couldn't get it sounding as good as Nuraphone through the presets and eq so I sent them back. Now I have an order in for an LCD5 and don't know what the hell i'm doing.


Because they are wireless? Sports? Gymn? Walking? Traveling? 

My LCD4's don't leave my home.


----------



## AudioBomb (Sep 21, 2021)

Luke Skywalker said:


> So I love the Geminis... Music sounds just fantastic and the ANC seems to be on par with my Bose buds.  However, I've also had like a clicking/popping thing going on in the right bud no matter what tips I use.  I can't run wearing them because I get like a "clunk clunk."  And the case... I wish it was a little bit more solid and less prone to popping open.
> 
> But that sound... Amazing


Driver flex. That sucks on an headphone that expensive. Unforgivable.


----------



## nekonhime

Luke Skywalker said:


> So I love the Geminis... Music sounds just fantastic and the ANC seems to be on par with my Bose buds.  However, I've also had like a clicking/popping thing going on in the right bud no matter what tips I use.  I can't run wearing them because I get like a "clunk clunk."  And the case... I wish it was a little bit more solid and less prone to popping open.
> 
> But that sound... Amazing


Look like I dodge a bomb there, thanks mate


----------



## AudioBomb

nekonhime said:


> Look like I dodge a bomb there, thanks mate


I also suspect that what you had was driver flex. Mines have 0, so I guess you weren't lucky with your unit.


----------



## nekonhime

AudioBomb said:


> I also suspect that what you had was driver flex. Mines have 0, so I guess you weren't lucky with your unit.


It mostly happen to me when I buy new units not the used one, weird lol


----------



## AudioBomb (Sep 21, 2021)

nekonhime said:


> It mostly happen to me when I buy new units not the used one, weird lol


lol. The used ones were double tested


----------



## nekonhime

AudioBomb said:


> lol. The used ones were double tested


And cheaper 😗


----------



## AudioBomb (Sep 21, 2021)

nekonhime said:


> And cheaper 😗


sucks, sucks, sucks. Sell, sell, sell 

What is this life without buying and selling? Classifieds are there for something. lol.


----------



## scubaphish (Sep 21, 2021)

Ama


Luke Skywalker said:


> So I love the Geminis... Music sounds just fantastic and the ANC seems to be on par with my Bose buds.  However, I've also had like a clicking/popping thing going on in the right bud no matter what tips I use.  I can't run wearing them because I get like a "clunk clunk."  And the case... I wish it was a little bit more solid and less prone to popping open.
> 
> But that sound... Amazing


Amazing sound and ANC…not made for running…too much movement in ear canal

edit: yeah the case though…less than ideal to say the least

edit 2: have I mentioned how much I love these buds?


----------



## AudioBomb (Sep 21, 2021)

edit


----------



## profusion

jant71 said:


> The A11T. The new one. Not the identical looking older A10T which has half the battery life and no aptX. Was gonna get into it today anyway.
> 
> So, I ran them in and tested them out and did some comparing. I used aptX and settled on Bludio oval tips. These would have the JVC house sound for TWS(I have had 5 JVC TWS and 8 wireless models). I had the A5T first and it sounds big but not huge and is in your face and fun. It follows but the aptX adds to the SQ as the driver should some as well. Not quite the same as the A5t has a 6mm and the 11T has a 5.8mm driver. You still have that big pretty bold and in your face sound but the 11T pushes the mids and treble up more so it is not the bass focused smoother and politer towards the treble type of sound. Even had an EQ profile saved for the pricier Victor Studio TWS which, while said by some to sound like and be on par with the MTW2, was that type of signature. The A11T on that profile loaded up clearly has a more evident high end and needed that toned down. I can hear and appreciate the more forward mids vs. the A5T.
> 
> ...



Does A11T have ambient mode? So does they worth 60$ or there are better chi-fis at that price?


----------



## erockg

scubaphish said:


> Ama
> 
> Amazing sound and ANC…not made for running…too much movement in ear canal
> 
> ...


100% agree.  The Devialet Gemini are incredible.  I have so many buds I love but nothing compares to them IMO.  Case is big but that's okay.  I used them mostly at home anyway.  Soundstage is wide and dynamic.


----------



## jant71

profusion said:


> Does A11T have ambient mode? So does they worth 60$ or there are better chi-fis at that price?


$59 is the site price but you should never have to buy them at that price. The street or real world price is or will be better. I got them at $20 less.

Yes they have a decent ambient mode. Quite clear but a little hiss if in a quiet setting and depending on volume level. JVC getting better as this is improved over previous models they charged $90 more for. Only had about 4 Chi-fi models but the JVC has ambient while none of the others did, the SQ is much better, and the battery life as well. The $50 Simgot has good range and stability and a good fit as well but the SQ can compete as it is the bass smooth type that can't compete on stage, speed, detail, or overall extension. Had the more recent CCA hybrid TWS and while the battery has gotten better and they have an armature comparing to the same $150-ish serious models they got slapped down at first listen while the JVC was trading blows a bit. Think they still do well for $60 as far as ambient and SQ and connection but the buttons and micro USB are not so great and be hader to overlook at $50 or $60. I'm still they a sweet at a deal but I want them to redo them physically more like the A5T.


----------



## clerkpalmer

Releasing soon:  https://bloomaudio.com/products/noble-fokus-pro

No ANC.  Pricey but with auto EQ tech of some sort.  Anybody gonna give em a try?  I think I will.  I'm a sucker for anything blue.


----------



## BooleanBones

clerkpalmer said:


> Releasing soon:  https://bloomaudio.com/products/noble-fokus-pro
> 
> No ANC.  Pricey but with auto EQ tech of some sort.  Anybody gonna give em a try?  I think I will.  I'm a sucker for anything blue.


One day I am going to ping them and see if they allow visitors. Would be cool to check out. Like an hour down the road from me.


----------



## clerkpalmer

BooleanBones said:


> One day I am going to ping them and see if they allow visitors. Would be cool to check out. Like an hour down the road from me.


Saying mid October now. Give the wizard a ring.


----------



## clerkpalmer

clerkpalmer said:


> Saying mid October now. Give the wizard a ring.


Minor rant but what's with aptx adaptive? Why choose that over aptxhd? Samsung doesn't support either of them. Is aptx adaptive even widely adopted?


----------



## BooleanBones

clerkpalmer said:


> Minor rant but what's with aptx adaptive? Why choose that over aptxhd? Samsung doesn't support either of them. Is aptx adaptive even widely adopted?


Supposed to be backwards compatible right? I haven't played with it much recently as I have been using my iPhone mostly.


----------



## clerkpalmer

BooleanBones said:


> Supposed to be backwards compatible right? I haven't played with it much recently as I have been using my iPhone mostly.


It isn't or it least not consistently. For instance I don't think you can force aptxhd. Just seems like an odd choice.


----------



## BooleanBones

clerkpalmer said:


> It isn't or it least not consistently. For instance I don't think you can force aptxhd. Just seems like an odd choice.


yeah, it also a bit hard to figure out which one it is actually using/chosen in my limited exposure. For instance, I use the Creative bluetooth adapter which has LEDs for each codec. For adaptive, it stayed at aptx when I did use it. Might try playing with it some more to see if I can identify a switch.


----------



## clerkpalmer

BooleanBones said:


> yeah, it also a bit hard to figure out which one it is actually using/chosen in my limited exposure. For instance, I use the Creative bluetooth adapter which has LEDs for each codec. For adaptive, it stayed at aptx when I did use it. Might try playing with it some more to see if I can identify a switch.


Oh I have the dongle. Didn't know it supported adaptive


----------



## erockg

clerkpalmer said:


> Releasing soon:  https://bloomaudio.com/products/noble-fokus-pro
> 
> No ANC.  Pricey but with auto EQ tech of some sort.  Anybody gonna give em a try?  I think I will.  I'm a sucker for anything blue.


I'll totally try these.  Loved the sound on the NPFs but the fit didn't work for me.  If they adjusted that, I'm in!


----------



## clerkpalmer

erockg said:


> I'll totally try these.  Loved the sound on the NPFs but the fit didn't work for me.  If they adjusted that, I'm in!


Same issue here on fit. Looks improved.


----------



## BooleanBones (Sep 21, 2021)

clerkpalmer said:


> Oh I have the dongle. Didn't know it supported adaptive


not sure where the decision is made quite frankly. Is it on the dongle or the headphones  The adapter I think is either/or due to it's age. Do they both have to be Adaptive? not sure really. I should probably read up some and stop rambling.


----------



## AudioBomb (Sep 21, 2021)

What I like about this thread is that everybody's happy, no stupid discussions, nice place to be.

TOMORROWWWW... NURAPHONES!!!

Got a hell of a deal at 150€ and they're near mint. Their price goes between 150€ and 200€ used on ebay.uk and with some luck you win some auction at 50€, because nobody bids. lol. Unfortunately just noticed this after buying mines. haha.


----------



## bladefd (Sep 21, 2021)

clerkpalmer said:


> Minor rant but what's with aptx adaptive? Why choose that over aptxhd? Samsung doesn't support either of them. Is aptx adaptive even widely adopted?


My guess is that if you advertise aptxhd then your buds have to be able to maintain a certain minimum bitrate at all times, which would require a lot more power & a better chip. With aptx adaptive, you just have to maintain within a certain range so it can fluctuate quite a bit from moment to moment.

I don't think any earbuds on the market have aptxhd, right?? It's all full-sized Bluetooth headphones with a lot more space for bigger chips and much bigger drivers that use much more power than tiny TWS earbuds.


----------



## BooleanBones

bladefd said:


> I don't think any earbuds on the market have aptxhd, right?? It's all full-sized Bluetooth headphones with a lot more space for bigger chips and much bigger drivers that use much more power than tiny TWS earbuds.


I think you're right. I have not seen/nor have any yet. Just my cans here at my place. Adaptive is closest I think I have seen.


----------



## jant71 (Sep 21, 2021)

clerkpalmer said:


> Minor rant but what's with aptx adaptive? Why choose that over aptxhd? Samsung doesn't support either of them. Is aptx adaptive even widely adopted?


Noble had ambient before. Did they drop it? And down to 7.5 hours battery and no quick charge.  No IPX rating either?

To have no real features and just okay battery life it needs to be, to me, way way ahead in the sound quality dept.  Not cool pay $349 and CES comes around or even another fall release comes along to match it plus beat the battery life and have more features.


----------



## erockg

jant71 said:


> Noble had ambient before. Did they drop it? And down to 7.5 hours battery and no quick charge.  No IPX rating either?
> 
> To have no real features and just okay battery life it needs to be, to me, way way ahead in the sound quality dept.  Not cool pay $349 and CES comes around or even another fall release comes along to match it plus beat the battery life and have more features.


$349 is a lot.  Their buds do sound phenomenal, but yes, one thing that would hold me back is transparency mode.  They didn't put that feature on the Fokus ;(


----------



## tinyman392

clerkpalmer said:


> Releasing soon:  https://bloomaudio.com/products/noble-fokus-pro
> 
> No ANC.  Pricey but with auto EQ tech of some sort.  Anybody gonna give em a try?  I think I will.  I'm a sucker for anything blue.


Hm…. When you said auto EQ I was thinking of the EQ similar to what Apple does with the APP, APM, and HomePod.  This is more of a hearing test style EQ.  I’ve never had any luck with those types of EQs.  Noble does make good products though and they certainly look beautiful.


----------



## AudioBomb

Decided to give the Noble Audio Falcon PRO a try. As a triple driver hybrid, it should be on a different league than the Nuras. All subjective, let's see.


----------



## Tommy C (Sep 21, 2021)

erockg said:


> $349 is a lot.  Their buds do sound phenomenal, but yes, one thing that would hold me back is transparency mode.  They didn't put that feature on the Fokus ;(


If the sound is friggin’ amazing I’ll be OK paying their asking price although it’s super expensive for what it is so for that kind of money I would rather go wired with adapters and since they basically have zero features It’s going to be tough to sell for most people.


----------



## erockg

Tommy C said:


> If the sound is friggin’ amazing I’ll be OK paying their asking price although it’s super expensive for what it is so for that kind of money I would rather go wired with adapters and since they basically have zero features It’s going to be tough to sell for most people.


I think you can do just as good with more features with another brand.  But I truly hope I'm surprised.  So many great options out there right now.  B&O, Devialet, Klipsch, Shure, Nura and the list goes on!


----------



## assassin10000

One thing of note, I haven't been a big fan of most ambient sound pass through modes on other TWS I've tried (buds+, xm3, maybe some others) but the XM4 ambient is pretty good and fairly natural. Not something I expected, at all.

Definitely makes them more friendly for usage when out of the house.


----------



## J_3000

clerkpalmer said:


> Releasing soon:  https://bloomaudio.com/products/noble-fokus-pro
> 
> No ANC.  Pricey but with auto EQ tech of some sort.  Anybody gonna give em a try?  I think I will.  I'm a sucker for anything blue.


This looks interesting!


----------



## DigDub (Sep 22, 2021)

Samsung galaxy buds 2 with spinfit 360 tips.






These sound too hot right out of the box. Bright and a bit sibilant. Had to adjust down 2 notches on the 4khz band and 3 notches on the 8khz band on the EQ settings of my Samsung flip 3 phone and they sound much better now. Bass is strong but not overwhelmingly so. Mids is a tad recessed. Highs after EQ are pleasant and well defined. Overall a very energetic sound signature.

Comfort is superb and good for lying sideways, very low profile and barely sticks out from the ear, which also makes them less easy to remove from the ears as they are quite slippery too. Touch controls can be customised and all functions can be accessed when both buds are used.

ANC is pretty good, manages to drown most of bus and train engine noise. Not Sony good, maybe about 80-90%. Ambient is pretty good, the middle level sounds natural while the high level amplifies external sound loud enough if you prefer that.


----------



## Juturna

I've 90% made up my mind - I'm ordering the Geminis after I get my next paycheck, you've all sold me on them even though I've heard mixed reviews otherwise.


----------



## Juturna

I've also finally got my Sennheiser MTW2's back and I really like them for SOME music, but for other music I even prefer the $60 SoundPeats H1. 
There's something about the Senns that doesn't play right with heavier more intensive music, like a slight veil in the mid-highs that makes the sound... almost a bit tinny and thin. Using their 3-band EQ in the app and dragging up the treble just a little step brings some more sparkle to the sound, but it also introduces sibilance almost right away, but leaving it at 0 or dragging it down leaves the sound very dull in the upper region so it's a bit annoying there. 

The mid-bass could use a LITTLE bit more emphasis to add a touch of more warmth. The SoundPeats are in turn too bass heavy and the bass isn't the fastest in the game either, but the mids and highs sound... uh, difficult for me to explain but I guess I could say that it sounds very accurate and non-fatiguing, but it also lacks a bit of sparkle so it's not very exciting to listen to. 


Overall they sound very good but I'd really like something that's even better. I tried the B&O EQ's again yesterday and I wasn't impressed. I mean they sound really good and natural and the EQ is actually decent to change the sound despite being very limited in giving you control, but I don't think they sound $100-200 better than some of the competition at all, and the fit was definitely not great for me with any of the eartips.  

So to me it's down to Gemini, Nuratrues and Klipsch T5 II ANC now, but heavily leaning towards Gemini right now.


----------



## AudioBomb (Sep 22, 2021)

Juturna said:


> I've also finally got my Sennheiser MTW2's back and I really like them for SOME music, but for other music I even prefer the $60 SoundPeats H1.
> There's something about the Senns that doesn't play right with heavier more intensive music, like a slight veil in the mid-highs that makes the sound... almost a bit tinny and thin. Using their 3-band EQ in the app and dragging up the treble just a little step brings some more sparkle to the sound, but it also introduces sibilance almost right away, but leaving it at 0 or dragging it down leaves the sound very dull in the upper region so it's a bit annoying there.
> 
> The mid-bass could use a LITTLE bit more emphasis to add a touch of more warmth. The SoundPeats are in turn too bass heavy and the bass isn't the fastest in the game either, but the mids and highs sound... uh, difficult for me to explain but I guess I could say that it sounds very accurate and non-fatiguing, but it also lacks a bit of sparkle so it's not very exciting to listen to.
> ...


Those are definitely 3 great choices. I still would like to listen to Klipsch T5 II, but with the Nuraphones coming today, I guess I'll pass.


----------



## soullinker20

still hoping some improvement on the battery life of geminis on the next update. with regards to ambient mode, for me the geminis and xm4 are kind of on par with me. I think with the sound coming in, it could be also affected by the isolation the eartips give.


----------



## ricthaman (Sep 22, 2021)

Small update on the Gemini's from my side:

I am very, very impressed with their ANC. Used them on the train for 3 hours straight today, and they are mighty impressive in cancelling sound (especially the higher frequencies). They have that magic effect that when you turn ANC on, the world just disappears only to realise how absolutely loud the train is during rush hour when you take them out. Also very comfortable ANC, no weird pressure issues at all (even when entering a tunnel, something most ANC's struggle with).

SQ is also brilliant, I am very pleased and like them by far the best of any TWS personally. But their SQ strength has been widely shared already.

I even found a fit that I could live with for 3 hours straight without any adjustments, but I have CP360's on the way so let's see what they do in terms of comfort and SQ.

I must give credit where credit is due; usually when ANC is advertised, it is 'okay' but that's that. Bose and Sony are the ones where it's at as far as ANC is concerned. However, to me personally, Devialet is right up there! And I have tried the XM4's, Bose, EQ and airpods pro (as well as some over ears, but that's no fair comparison). I think that is rather impressive for a small, and mostly newcomer, company.

I am very curious how everyone else's experiences are with the Gemini ANC?

Cheers!

ps: can't say much about battery life yet, need to do some more testing for that!


----------



## stormwrx

TK33 said:


> Shure TW2 + SE846 update:
> 
> SQ: sounds way better than any other TWS I have, even with aptX only   SE846 does seem to lose a bit of soundstage and vocals aren't as centered for me but I think a lot of it has to do with fit.
> 
> ...


I picked up the Shure TW2 last weekend and paired it with the Aonic 4 IEM. I second all of these impressions and the sound quality is better than any of my previous TWS buds. As an added bonus, these work great for calls and you can even use environmental mode (ambient) while on a call. I am working on the fit, but so far, the Spinfit CP-100 (with a bore adapter) is working pretty well and I have Westone Star Silicone tips on the way.


----------



## erockg

stormwrx said:


> I picked up the Shure TW2 last weekend and paired it with the Aonic 4 IEM. I second all of these impressions and the sound quality is better than any of my previous TWS buds. As an added bonus, these work great for calls and you can even use environmental mode (ambient) while on a call. I am working on the fit, but so far, the Spinfit CP-100 (with a bore adapter) is working pretty well and I have Westone Star Silicone tips on the way.


I tried the Spintips and had to send them back.  Even the Large were too small for me.  But the Westones are PERFECT.  Love them.  Agreed - these are awesome.  I'm rocking the SE846 on them and I couldn't be happier.


----------



## helmutcheese (Sep 22, 2021)

SpinFit have a few XL size in the range, they will be about 14mm, I also have large canals and struggled still I got SpinFit and AZLA SednaEarfit tips came my way.

No foam trips fit me period but see those you have come in 15mm (Orange) so just ordered some.


----------



## erockg

helmutcheese said:


> SpinFit have a few XL size in the range, they will be about 14mm, I also have large canals and struggled still I got SpinFit and AZLA SednaEarfit tips came my way.
> 
> No foam trips fit me period but see those you have come in 15mm (Orange) so just ordered some.


Can you link me to the XLs that fit the Shure SE IEMs?  I can't find them ;(


----------



## helmutcheese

They do not list many tips specifically for a brand.

Measure your nozzle and go from there and if your charging case can take larger/longer tips you got a good choice if not you are going to need get the shorter TWS models.


----------



## assassin10000

erockg said:


> Can you link me to the XLs that fit the Shure SE IEMs?  I can't find them ;(


Any T100 (3.0mm bore) size tips would work.


----------



## erockg

assassin10000 said:


> Any T100 (3.0mm bore) size tips would work.


Yes, but I was referring to the Spinfit CP800s.  I can only see that they offer them in a L, not an XL.  I think that got lost in my reply above.  Oh well.  The Westones are perfect either way.  Very impressed by their fit for me.


----------



## TK33

erockg said:


> Yes, but I was referring to the Spinfit CP800s.  I can only see that they offer them in a L, not an XL.  I think that got lost in my reply above.  Oh well.  The Westones are perfect either way.  Very impressed by their fit for me.


Here we go again...thanks for the tip.  Just ordered a set as well. Hopefully gives me a better fit with the TW2.


----------



## AudioBomb (Sep 22, 2021)

erockg said:


> Yes, but I was referring to the Spinfit CP800s.  I can only see that they offer them in a L, not an XL.  I think that got lost in my reply above.  Oh well.  The Westones are perfect either way.  Very impressed by their fit for me.


Dumbo ears.  I'm almost there but L still fits me.


----------



## cresny

ricthaman said:


> Small update on the Gemini's from my side:
> 
> I am very, very impressed with their ANC. Used them on the train for 3 hours straight today, and they are mighty impressive in cancelling sound (especially the higher frequencies). They have that magic effect that when you turn ANC on, the world just disappears only to realise how absolutely loud the train is during rush hour when you take them out. Also very comfortable ANC, no weird pressure issues at all (even when entering a tunnel, something most ANC's struggle with).
> 
> ...


Not much to add, but the ANC also manages to do a very good job with wind noise.


----------



## jant71

profusion said:


> Does A11T have ambient mode? So does they worth 60$ or there are better chi-fis at that price?


I totally forgot to add that they have the ambient I don't like. More of a talk through since it lowers the volume way down. So you have two problems with that. It doesn't pause what you are listening to so you have to do that or raise the volume up if you want to use it as ambient and not just talk through. I also wish they would switch play pause to the right side and ambient to the left. Single press is great but I would love it to pause the file and for it to be on the left side since others are Play pause on both or the right side so it does go against normal habit.

I did test the ambient more outside today on the first windy day. The slight hiss you can't really hear outside with more noise but there is a slight echo to it outside of a quiet environs. I can tell the mics are improved from earlier JVC but the mic hole being bigger and with a little screen might be the fix it needs. Sounds like it is going through a small hole and then to the mic so the slight noticeable tunnel sound. Still good ambient but not among the best. Goods news, I guess the way they made it, the wind noise is kept at bay pretty well. More low in volume and less offensive.

Played ball with them and the iso is decent and the footfall noise is not bad. The Tic Tac shape is so easy to just push in and comfy and they stay in very well. The sound is still over achieving and quite satisfying. i tested the range to 65 70 feet straight line before any drops.


----------



## erockg

TK33 said:


> Here we go again...thanks for the tip.  Just ordered a set as well. Hopefully gives me a better fit with the TW2.


Ha ha!  I ordered the mixed pack from Sweetwater, but I'm only using the XL, so if you want any other size, I'd be happy to USPS First Class a pair to you.  I know, gross


----------



## scubaphish

ricthaman said:


> Small update on the Gemini's from my side:
> 
> I am very, very impressed with their ANC. Used them on the train for 3 hours straight today, and they are mighty impressive in cancelling sound (especially the higher frequencies). They have that magic effect that when you turn ANC on, the world just disappears only to realise how absolutely loud the train is during rush hour when you take them out. Also very comfortable ANC, no weird pressure issues at all (even when entering a tunnel, something most ANC's struggle with).
> 
> ...


Probably no surprise, but I agree with all your findings. My test for ANC was NYC street and subways and beyond pleasantly surprised. Only thing I’d add is strength of (AAC) connection is fantastic. I walk around my apartment from room to room, often leaving my phone in one place. The Gemini seem to take it in stride.


----------



## stormwrx

erockg said:


> Ha ha!  I ordered the mixed pack from Sweetwater, but I'm only using the XL, so if you want any other size, I'd be happy to USPS First Class a pair to you.  I know, gross



I just got my Westone Star silicone tips and can't get a seal for the life of me on the Shure TW2 / Aonic 4 combo, even after trying every size tip. I must have weird ears. Oh well, looks like I'll be using the Shure universal yellow foams.


----------



## jant71 (Sep 22, 2021)

stormwrx said:


> I just got my Westone Star silicone tips and can't get a seal for the life of me on the Shure TW2 / Aonic 4 combo, even after trying every size tip. I must have weird ears. Oh well, looks like I'll be using the Shure universal yellow foams.


Just make a spacer and you can use any tips you want. Turn inside out and cut the core/stem off of one of the sizes you don't use. Put that on then use the more popular size tips.  I'm sure the Aonic 4 will be better with some nice wide bore tips on them. I'd imagine the nice long Sedna earfit original should be sweet on that Aonic 4 for both fit and sound. No doubt better than the Westone tips. 

Shure, Westone, and ETY are just about the only holdouts sticking to that skinny bore. They need to get with the times.


----------



## erockg

stormwrx said:


> I just got my Westone Star silicone tips and can't get a seal for the life of me on the Shure TW2 / Aonic 4 combo, even after trying every size tip. I must have weird ears. Oh well, looks like I'll be using the Shure universal yellow foams.


Yeah, that strange.  I'm usually the one with issues.  XL were the only ones that worked for me.


----------



## BigZ12 (Sep 22, 2021)

I just wanted to say I like the Comply TrueGrip TW-200-C on both my Sony XM4 and M&D MW08S.
Especially with the MW08S, the Complys limit the bass a little (that's a good thing), while mids and highs still are detailed and crisp.
The foam is also very comfy with both. Limits noise when chewing, walking/running etc.

Edit: I have to use size large on both.


----------



## Tommy C

erockg said:


> Yeah, that strange.  I'm usually the one with issues.  XL were the only ones that worked for me.


Sound quality speaking, which one do you prefer, the Nuratrue or the Shure TW2?
I like the Shure solution but afraid I’ll find the sq underwhelming since the drivers are essentially entry level, no?


----------



## erockg

Tommy C said:


> Sound quality speaking, which one do you prefer, the Nuratrue or the Shure TW2?
> I like the Shure solution but afraid I’ll find the sq underwhelming since the drivers are essentially entry level, no?


You can get the Shure TW2 adapters and pair them with a better Shure IEM.  The SE215 are cool, but once you upgrade to a higher end model, it's hard to go back.  I've been using the SE846s on those TW2 adapters, so in this case they sound phenomenal in comparison.  4 drivers, better separation, clean sound.  I thought I'd return the SE846 and stick with the stock SE215, but it's not even close.  As I know you know, it's truly hard to compare a quality IEM to a single driver/relatively inexpensive TWS earbud in what the Nuratrue are.  That said, the Nuratrue are still very very good for $199.  They haven't been getting much love lately.  Mostly because they don't seem to fit my ears as well as my others.  After a while my left ear hurts.  Don't get me wrong, they do sound great.  Nura's EQ software tech pretty amazing IMO.  It's just that right now I have some other heavy hitters that are getting much more air time, especially a new set of cans this week


----------



## Tommy C

erockg said:


> You can get the Shure TW2 adapters and pair them with a better Shure IEM.  The SE215 are cool, but once you upgrade to a higher end model, it's hard to go back.  I've been using the SE846s on those TW2 adapters, so in this case they sound phenomenal in comparison.  4 drivers, better separation, clean sound.  I thought I'd return the SE846 and stick with the stock SE215, but it's not even close.  As I know you know, it's truly hard to compare a quality IEM to a single driver/relatively inexpensive TWS earbud in what the Nuratrue are.  That said, the Nuratrue are still very very good for $199.  They haven't been getting much love lately.  Mostly because they don't seem to fit my ears as well as my others.  After a while my left ear hurts.  Don't get me wrong, they do sound great.  Nura's EQ software tech pretty amazing IMO.  It's just that right now I have some other heavy hitters that are getting much more air time, especially a new set of cans this week


Thanks bud, much appreciated. 
Was thinking ordering the Shure with the 215 since I have the UE900 that I can pair them with at home and the 215 when out and about as I don't need _the best_ sound when I'm on the go.


----------



## Tommy C

If anyone is planning to order their first order from Nura and is interested I have received a 15% off offer when referring a friend so you will get your 15% off at checkout.


----------



## erockg

Tommy C said:


> Thanks bud, much appreciated.
> Was thinking ordering the Shure with the 215 since I have the UE900 that I can pair them with at home and the 215 when out and about as I don't need _the best_ sound when I'm on the go.


Why not just use your UEs?  Save yourself the 40 bucks.  But I get what you're saying.  I was actually going to return my Aonic 215s and exchange them for the adapters only, but after having to pay shipping them back, I'm just going to keep them.  They'll probably sit in a box forever.


----------



## AudioBomb (Sep 22, 2021)

erockg said:


> You can get the Shure TW2 adapters and pair them with a better Shure IEM.  The SE215 are cool, but once you upgrade to a higher end model, it's hard to go back.  I've been using the SE846s on those TW2 adapters, so in this case they sound phenomenal in comparison.  4 drivers, better separation, clean sound.  I thought I'd return the SE846 and stick with the stock SE215, but it's not even close.  As I know you know, it's truly hard to compare a quality IEM to a single driver/relatively inexpensive TWS earbud in what the Nuratrue are.  That said, the Nuratrue are still very very good for $199.  They haven't been getting much love lately.  Mostly because they don't seem to fit my ears as well as my others.  After a while my left ear hurts.  Don't get me wrong, they do sound great.  Nura's EQ software tech pretty amazing IMO.  It's just that right now I have some other heavy hitters that are getting much more air time, especially a new set of cans this week


IMHO the Nura Trues outperform SHURE SE846 in pretty much everything, including separation/imaging (not that it is amazing, but sounds better to me). SE846 is pretty limited in that area, hated them, with the exception of the bass. It's pretty odd for a 4 driver configuration, but it's what it is. They sound veiled, congested and not high-end at all. The Nuras sound much more lively, open and fun. How can 1 dynamic driver best 4 BA's? Of course it is possible.

So, concluding, I wouldn't pay more than 200€ for an SE846, let alone the SE215. Unfortunately I did and lost alot of money selling them near brand new. Obviously my opinion is just my opinion and can't match everyone's taste, but I was accostumed to 2000€+ IEMs like the LCD-i4, QDC Anole VX and others. It was quite a shock the difference for the SE846 that is WAY overpriced. You have LCD-i3 at the same price sounding much better.

If you want an amazing 3 driver IEM that outperforms SE846 by quantum leaps and cost $300, get FLC8n. It's the closest thing you can get to 1000€ IEMs.


----------



## erockg

AudioBomb said:


> IMHO the Nura Trues outperform SHURE SE846 in pretty much everything, including separation/imaging. SE846 is pretty limited in that area, hated them, with the exception of the bass. It's pretty odd for a 4 driver configuration, but it's what it is. They sound veiled, congested and not high-end at all. The Nuras sound much mnore livelier, open and fun. How can 1 driver best 4? Of course it is possible. So, concluding, I wouldn't pay more than 200€ for an SE846, let alone the SE215. Unfortunately I did and lost alot of money selling them near brand new.


Then I must be completely deaf   Anyone know a good Audiologist?


----------



## AudioBomb

erockg said:


> Then I must be completely deaf   Anyone know a good Audiologist?


I can recommend one, but it's in Portugal


----------



## DJ XtAzY

After one month of owning the Geminis with Final Type E tips, I can't believe I'm listening to these more than my ZMF Verite Closed cans....

I still can't wait for the new firmware to improve battery life.


----------



## TK33 (Sep 22, 2021)

AudioBomb said:


> IMHO the Nura Trues outperform SHURE SE846 in pretty much everything, including separation/imaging. SE846 is pretty limited in that area, hated them, with the exception of the bass. It's pretty odd for a 4 driver configuration, but it's what it is. They sound veiled, congested and not high-end at all. The Nuras sound much more livelier, open and fun. How can 1 driver best 4? Of course it is possible.
> 
> So, concluding, I wouldn't pay more than 200€ for an SE846, let alone the SE215. Unfortunately I did and lost alot of money selling them near brand new. Obviously my opinion is just my opinion and can't match everyone's taste, but I was accostumed to 2000€+ IEMs like the LCD-i4, QDC Anole VX and others.


You have made it clear you don't like them but there are clearly those who like the SE846, myself included.  We clearly have different preferences.  That is ok.  Doesn't make either of us right or wrong.

However, you also mentioned in a previous post that you paired the SE846 with a Fiio M15. I did a quick search and that DAP is listed as having an output impedance of approx. 1.1 ohm.  When I read your first post, I remembered my reaction when I tried to reduce noise by using a certain popular attenuator which increased the OI to 1ohm...you really need an amp that has an output impedance below 1 ohm and as close to zero as possible.  Unfortunately the SE846 is just a very picky and sensitive IEM.  No secret, I really like mine.

This was part of my hesitation with getting the TW2 but ever since I got it, my other TWS have not been getting any love outside of calls.


----------



## erockg (Sep 22, 2021)

DJ XtAzY said:


> After one month of owning the Geminis with Final Type E tips, I can't believe I'm listening to these more than my ZMF Verite Closed cans....
> 
> I still can't wait for the new firmware to improve battery life.


They really are impressive.  The Ear Active Matching is awesome.  Helps those with fit issues.  I'm using large ePro tips with mine.


----------



## AudioBomb (Sep 22, 2021)

TK33 said:


> You have made it clear you don't like them but there are clearly those who like the SE846, myself included.  We clearly have different preferences.  That is ok.  Doesn't make either of us right or wrong.
> 
> However, you also mentioned in a previous post that you paired the SE846 with a Fiio M15. I did a quick search and that DAP is listed as having an output impedance of approx. 1.1 ohm.  When I read your first post, I remembered my reaction when I tried to reduce noise by using a certain popular attenuator which increased the OI to 1ohm...you really need an amp that has an output impedance below 1 ohm and as close to zero as possible.  Unfortunately the SE846 is just a very picky and sensitive IEM.  No secret, I really like mine.
> 
> This was part of my hesitation with getting the TW2 but ever since I got it, my other TWS have not been getting any love outside of calls.


Yes, correct, it was just tested with the FiiO M15. Thanks for letting me know that.


----------



## Tommy C

CA MT folks, does the music stop when you get one bud out of the ear? 
I could swear I thought they have ear a detection sensor and visually it looks like they do but that's not the case now. 

Also, another interesting thing is that unlike any other IEMs that I have ever used, these don't do well if your seal is too much. 
The sound basically becomes so bassy it's unbearable while smaller tips (less of a seal for me) do much better!


----------



## AudioBomb

Tommy C said:


> CA MT folks, does the music stop when you get one bud out of the ear?
> I could swear I thought they have ear a detection sensor and visually it looks like they do but that's not the case now.


Usually that's something that you control with an app. I've had my Nuras doing so.


----------



## J_3000

Tommy C said:


> CA MT folks, does the music stop when you get one bud out of the ear?
> I could swear I thought they have ear a detection sensor and visually it looks like they do but that's not the case now.
> 
> Also, another interesting thing is that unlike any other IEMs that I have ever used, these don't do well if your seal is too much.
> The sound basically becomes so bassy it's unbearable while smaller tips (less of a seal for me) do much better!


No they dont have that. But the touch area is so big, that its probable that you will accidetally stop the music while taking one out 😃


----------



## Tommy C

AudioBomb said:


> Usually that's something that you control with an app. I've had my Nuras doing so.


Sadly the app is rather basic and this option doesn’t exist.


----------



## Tommy C (Sep 23, 2021)

J_3000 said:


> No they dont have that. But the touch area is so big, that its probable that you will accidetally stop the music while taking one out 😃


Thanks. Really miss auto play/ pause but that’s alright, and yeah the touch area is way too big and too sensitive. 
there is no way to adjust them in your ears without pushing it multiple times.


----------



## AudioBomb (Sep 23, 2021)

*Nura True for sale*. 1 week old, like new condition. 170€ shipped EU. Need to pay the NuraPhone. lol. These are epic.


----------



## BigZ12 (Sep 23, 2021)

I can get a pair of used Geminis for about $255 (NOK 2200,-).
It was bought in March.
Any hardware updates since then, or just firmware?
Sadly it lacks the original packaging, but everything that came with it is included.
"Safe" to buy?
They cost about $400 (NOK 3490,-) new in store here :O

Edit: Bought them.  $238 after a little "haggling". Included p&p. Will have them Tuesday I think. Looking forward to test them.


----------



## Branflakes

Tommy C said:


> Also, another interesting thing is that unlike any other IEMs that I have ever used, these don't do well if your seal is too much.
> The sound basically becomes so bassy it's unbearable while smaller tips (less of a seal for me) do much better!


Doesn't this mean there's plainly too much bass? It's the opposite of the usual "there's no bass" complaint from people not used to IEM who get a bad seal. 

I had to severely EQ the mids and highs up when I had the MT.


----------



## BigZ12

I put a new set of large Comply TW-200-C tips on my "first TWS love", Lypertek Tevi, as well.
Man they sound good, and they still assert themselves very well compared to all my new ones.
I think they will be my walking/running/work out -buds for a long time to come, with their ipx7, battery time, comfort and sound quality. (a little bass boost in the eq with working out, since the Complys limit the bass a little with the Tevis as well)


----------



## Tommy C (Sep 23, 2021)

Branflakes said:


> Doesn't this mean there's plainly too much bass? It's the opposite of the usual "there's no bass" complaint from people not used to IEM who get a bad seal.
> 
> I had to severely EQ the mids and highs up when I had the MT.


Yes, that’s exactly it.
I was reading 2 reviews where this was mentioned and I thought it was really strange but gave it a try. I believe these were designed to have a shallow fit.  I have been using them for 3 weeks and felt like they are way way too bassy even when eq’ed and it’s indeed was the seal. Their stock tips aren’t that great for my ears and was able to find at home something that fits between the S and M tips with wider bore.  They sounded much much better now. Unfortunately, with the 3rd party tips there is another strange phenomena. When you adjust them to go deeper you get a really high pitch noise when pressing them.  I’m trying to love them but it’s very difficult between the software glitches and the odd fit.


----------



## scubaphish (Sep 23, 2021)

Tommy C said:


> Yes, that’s exactly it.
> I was reading 2 reviews where this was mentioned and I thought it was really strange but gave it a try. I believe these were designed to have a shallow fit.  I have been using them for 3 weeks and felt like they are way way too bassy even when eq’ed and it’s indeed was the seal. Their stock tips aren’t that great for my ears and was able to find at home something that fits between the S and M tips with wider bore.  They sounded much much better now. Unfortunately, with the 3rd party tips there is another strange phenomena. When you adjust them to go deeper you get a really high pitch noise when pressing them.  I’m trying to love them but it’s very difficult between the software glitches and the odd fit.


Forgive my editorializing, but it shouldn’t be so hard. I really wanted to like the MT…and even more…I REALLY wanted to LOVE the PI7 but it just didn’t take. And I just don’t think it should have to be so hard…either they’re right (even with some adjustments) or they aren’t. I returned the MT…kept the Klipsch T5 II…my wife found them more comfortable and better sounding without any/much effort. IMHO, seems to be the way it should be.
Just one man’s opinion, but that’s just my take.

edit: to be clear, I’m saying this as someone who is guilty of the same thing, trying very hard to make it work…thinking I’m doing something wrong that it isn’t working…driving me crazy. I just think there are so many choices available at every price point, I’m not sure it’s worth the driving crazy. Now, if you’re someone who appreciates the challenge, then go at it; more power to ya!


----------



## Branflakes

I liked the fit, except for the wingtips which were too hard and sharp and made my ears hurt. The sound was too bassy but I found it decent after EQ. But the software issues plus the wingtips made me decide to return them. I don't think they were meant for a shallow fit, given their shape is supposed to fit into the concha.


----------



## AudioBomb (Sep 23, 2021)

Nuraphones blow Nura True out of the water. Its not just the bass that's insane, but the mids and highs that are on another level of resolution and the separation/3D imaging thats immediatelly noticed. Noticeably superior. There's alot more space between instruments and that holographic effect that I'm accostumed to in much (much) more expensive headphones. You can pinpoint instruments with great accuracy here. I hate this cliché expression, but the difference is night and day, so huge they can't be compared. I thought they could be a bit better than the Nura Trues, maybe just the bass, but that is not the case at all. These play on another league and will be hard to be beaten by other BT headphones. They are totally worth the price (399€ new), it's a crime if you choose a SONY 1000X M4 for example, over these. They're on ebay for 150€-200€, this is a steal.

Seal was immediate, comfort excellent after 2 hours of use and ANC/isolation in these headphones is world-class. ANC still not on par with BOSE QC II, but still very good. Ambient mode is great, you can hear everything and talk with someone with the headphones in your ears. Call quality one of the best I've tried so far.

I guess its a goodbye to this thread, found my BT headohones. See you in heaven.


----------



## scubaphish

AudioBomb said:


> Nuraphones blow Nura True out of the wster. Its not just the bass that's insane, but the mids and highs that are on another level of resolution and the separation/3D imaging thats immediatelly noticed. Much superior. There's alot more space between instruments and that holographic effect. I hate this cliché expression, but the difference is night and day, so huge they can't be compared.
> 
> I guess its a goodbye to this thread, found my BT headohones. See you in heaven.


You’ll be back 😁


----------



## Luke Skywalker (Sep 23, 2021)

Whassup players? Just got my HiBy WH2's.

The good:

The sound is pretty incredible playing Qobuz and Tidal from my iPhone 12 Pro Max over AAC. 
The fit is unbelievable with Acoustune AET08's. Far better than Bose, Devialet, and Nuarl N6P
The case is itty bitty, like smaller than my thumb.
The magnets are insanely strong.  It's almost hard to pull them out but that's good.  They'll never fall out.

The "not good"...

The included tips are garbage... But I could say that about many of the TWS buds I've had and I always use my Acoustune's
With the Acoustune tips, the buds don't fit in the case so I need to keep them in the nice little bag the buds came with.
The case is tiny and heavy but the hinge is goofy looking.  Like something you'd see on a kitchen cabinet door.  Seems fine now but I wonder about the durability
I ran into one other problem... My HiBy R6 Pro won't pair with any bluetooth buds all of the sudden including these.  I was really looking forward to hearing UAT or at the very least LDAC.


----------



## clerkpalmer

Luke Skywalker said:


> Whassup players? Just got my HiBy WH2's.
> 
> The good:
> 
> ...


Did you get the BA or DD?


----------



## scubaphish

Luke Skywalker said:


> Whassup players? Just got my HiBy WH2's.
> 
> The good:
> 
> ...


(Immediately goes to search “HiBy WH2's”)


----------



## Luke Skywalker (Sep 23, 2021)

clerkpalmer said:


> Did you get the BA or DD?


I actually had to look at my email from kickstarter.  Looks like I got the Dual BA.  I think @miserybeforethemusic helped me decide

As much as I love the sound of the Geminis, the fit has never been great for me when I'm chewing food or running.  I'm going to hit the treadmill today with these WH2s and I'll let you know how they work out for that 

Klipsch T5 II ANC's are inbound...  Got them for $271 on Amazon but the shipping time was longer


----------



## clerkpalmer

scubaphish said:


> (Immediately goes to search “HiBy WH2's”)


Yeah, same here.  They look interesting enough and LDAC is worth exploring.  $160 for the BA and $120 for the DD.  Slow shipping from China.  Not sure about these.  Maybe if they were on amazon I'd bite.


----------



## clerkpalmer

Luke Skywalker said:


> I actually had to look at my email from kickstarter.  Looks like I got the Dual BA.  I think @miserybeforethemusic helped me decide


Yeah, I'll bet that version sounds better than the DD.  That's be the one I'd go for but of course it's more money and HiBy wants $30 extra to ship unless you want to wait 60 days.


----------



## DigDub (Sep 23, 2021)

Creative outlier air v3.







Size comparison between v2, v3 and Sony xm4.





Physical impressions - they are small and light, very comfortable in the ears.

The app has options that anyone would need, 10 band custom EQ and tons of presets, noise reduction and ambient strength, and to customise the controls. The buds firmware can be updated via the app as well.

Out of the box, the tuning is bass heavy. EQing down the bass tames it and gives an overall mature tuning. Mids are crystal clear. Treble is present and not sibilant, but its not very resolving. Great value. Creative's best effort so far and one of the better buds in the low-mid range segment.


----------



## erockg

Luke Skywalker said:


> I actually had to look at my email from kickstarter.  Looks like I got the Dual BA.  I think @miserybeforethemusic helped me decide
> 
> As much as I love the sound of the Geminis, the fit has never been great for me when I'm chewing food or running.  I'm going to hit the treadmill today with these WH2s and I'll let you know how they work out for that
> 
> Klipsch T5 II ANC's are inbound...  Got them for $271 on Amazon but the shipping time was longer


It's amazing how they look just like the Mifo 07.  Insane business out there in China.  Someone must go into a shop and is presented with a bunch of shells and options.  They choose, tweak and rebrand.


----------



## Tommy C (Sep 23, 2021)

scubaphish said:


> Forgive my editorializing, but it shouldn’t be so hard. I really wanted to like the MT…and even more…I REALLY wanted to LOVE the PI7 but it just didn’t take. And I just don’t think it should have to be so hard…either they’re right (even with some adjustments) or they aren’t. I returned the MT…kept the Klipsch T5 II…my wife found them more comfortable and better sounding without any/much effort. IMHO, seems to be the way it should be.
> Just one man’s opinion, but that’s just my take.
> 
> edit: to be clear, I’m saying this as someone who is guilty of the same thing, trying very hard to make it work…thinking I’m doing something wrong that it isn’t working…driving me crazy. I just think there are so many choices available at every price point, I’m not sure it’s worth the driving crazy. Now, if you’re someone who appreciates the challenge, then go at it; more power to ya!


Completely agreed.  At first I thought I was doing something wrong but I have been fiddling around with them for way too long. At one point the challenge became a game almost lol
But yeah, it’s probably time to move on.
I found the Senn CX400 on sale locally as they are clearing them out. I may bite.


----------



## Tommy C (Sep 23, 2021)

clerkpalmer said:


> Yeah, same here.  They look interesting enough and LDAC is worth exploring.  $160 for the BA and $120 for the DD.  Slow shipping from China.  Not sure about these.  Maybe if they were on amazon I'd bite.


If you want LDAC and dual driver the new Soundcore L2P+ might be a good option.  I got mine on sale for $110 and they are very nice and comfortable but I don’t like the way they look in the ears lol


----------



## jsmiller58

Branflakes said:


> I liked the fit, except for the wingtips which were too hard and sharp and made my ears hurt. The sound was too bassy but I found it decent after EQ. But the software issues plus the wingtips made me decide to return them. I don't think they were meant for a shallow fit, given their shape is supposed to fit into the concha.


The MT wingtips, I suspect, are also the reason for the call quality issues.  The hole in the wings to accommodate the microphone is tiny and even the smallest misalignment would result in blocking the microphones.  Classic bad implementation of a good idea.  For me, at least, I am fortunate that I do not need the wings and so no longer have the bad call quality issues.


----------



## NWISE

AudioBomb said:


> Nuraphones blow Nura True out of the water. Its not just the bass that's insane, but the mids and highs that are on another level of resolution and the separation/3D imaging thats immediatelly noticed. Noticeably superior. There's alot more space between instruments and that holographic effect that I'm accostumed to in much (much) more expensive headphones. You can pinpoint instruments with great accuracy here. I hate this cliché expression, but the difference is night and day, so huge they can't be compared. I thought they could be a bit better than the Nura Trues, maybe just the bass, but that is not the case at all. These play on another league and will be hard to be beaten by other BT headphones. They are totally worth the price (399€ new), it's a crime if you choose a SONY 1000X M4 for example, over these. They're on ebay for 150€-200€, this is a steal.
> 
> Seal was immediate, comfort excellent after 2 hours of use and ANC/isolation in these headphones is world-class. ANC still not on par with BOSE QC II, but still very good. Ambient mode is great, you can hear everything and talk with someone with the headphones in your ears. Call quality one of the best I've tried so far.
> 
> I guess its a goodbye to this thread, found my BT headohones. See you in heaven.


Is it true that these have bluetooth 4.0?

And you would recommend these over XM4? How is their ANC?


----------



## clerkpalmer

Just got an email offering the H95 for $649 with coupon from B&O.  I had been thinking of returning the EQs due to fit problems (sound is killer).  Sooooooooooooo return the EQs which cost $400 for the H95?  Help!


----------



## nekonhime

clerkpalmer said:


> Just got an email offering the H95 for $649 with coupon from B&O.  I had been thinking of returning the EQs due to fit problems (sound is killer).  Sooooooooooooo return the EQs which cost $400 for the H95?  Help!


H95 is much better


----------



## AudioBomb

NWISE said:


> Is it true that these have bluetooth 4.0?
> 
> And you would recommend these over XM4? How is their ANC?


These are much superior to XM4 from top to bottom, to soundstage, to separation, to everything. ANC is very good as is isolation. If you don't like a full size that is also an in-ear, and don't mind a downgrade in terms of SQ, then the SONYs are always a safe bet.


----------



## erockg

clerkpalmer said:


> Just got an email offering the H95 for $649 with coupon from B&O.  I had been thinking of returning the EQs due to fit problems (sound is killer).  Sooooooooooooo return the EQs which cost $400 for the H95?  Help!


I have them both and couldn't be happier.  You can't compare the two.  Different tech!  I can't let either of them go   Did you try the ePro Large tips on those EQs?  They're working great for me.  What about Comply tips?


----------



## erockg

clerkpalmer said:


> Just got an email offering the H95 for $649 with coupon from B&O.  I had been thinking of returning the EQs due to fit problems (sound is killer).  Sooooooooooooo return the EQs which cost $400 for the H95?  Help!


BTW, $649 is great!  I thought my deal was great at $739.


----------



## erockg

NWISE said:


> Is it true that these have bluetooth 4.0?
> 
> And you would recommend these over XM4? How is their ANC?


Yes, old tech.  BT 4.0.  Plus, IMO the fit is odd.  They are cans with little earbuds inside that go into your ears.  I didn't like the fit at all.  It was like having little wieners in your ears.  If you like that feeling, so be it.  Plus, their cable is a proprietary cable.  Not USB-C etc.


----------



## NWISE

AudioBomb said:


> These are much superior to XM4 from top to bottom, to soundstage, to separation, to everything. ANC is very good as is isolation. If you don't like a full size that is also an in-ear, and don't mind a downgrade in terms of SQ, then the SONYs are always a safe bet.


I just got my first full size cans (Senn HD6XX) and enjoying them, so I don't mind the full size. I was surprised to learn the Nuraphones use Bluetooth 4.0 since that means reduced range too and increased power consumption. Not many wireless phones around using something that old.


----------



## AudioBomb

NWISE said:


> I just got my first full size cans (Senn HD6XX) and enjoying them, so I don't mind the full size. I was surprised to learn the Nuraphones use Bluetooth 4.0 since that means reduced range too and increased power consumption. Not many wireless phones around using something that old.


It was not a deal breaker to me, honestly. I haven't tested the distance yet, I just need that it covers all my room. Will test that soon.


----------



## NWISE

erockg said:


> Yes, old tech.  BT 4.0.  Plus, IMO the fit is odd.  They are cans with little earbuds inside that go into your ears.  I didn't like the fit at all.  It was like having little wieners in your ears.  If you like that feeling, so be it.  Plus, their cable is a proprietary cable.  Not USB-C etc.


Thanks for that info... I don't think I would like that either. Ah well... on the positive side, saved some money (for now)


----------



## erockg

NWISE said:


> Thanks for that info... I don't think I would like that either. Ah well... on the positive side, saved some money (for now)


I think you'll enjoy those Sennies better.  I loved the Momentum 3s but wanted better ANC.  Went with the B&O H95s and couldn't be happier, unless I had the deal that @clerkpalmer seems to have!!!


----------



## erockg

@TK33 what kind of EQ settings are you using on those Shure TW2s?  Such a strange interface, still messing around a lot over here.  Then again, maybe you're not EQing...


----------



## clerkpalmer

erockg said:


> BTW, $649 is great!  I thought my deal was great at $739.


Thanks - yeah they are in my cart.  I really don't have room for both in my budget and I'm a little reluctant to part with the EQs although I've been eying the H95 for some time.  I still have my Pi7 and Gemini here and the new Noble on preorder ...


----------



## clerkpalmer

Off topic but as a huge fan of the Deva, this looks pretty cool:

https://www.ecoustics.com/products/hifiman-himalaya-r2r-dac-module/


----------



## erockg

clerkpalmer said:


> Thanks - yeah they are in my cart.  I really don't have room for both in my budget and I'm a little reluctant to part with the EQs although I've been eying the H95 for some time.  I still have my Pi7 and Gemini here and the new Noble on preorder ...


I was in the same position.  I got rid of my PI7s and Noble.  Kept the Gemini and acquired the EQs and H95s.  Always wanted those H95s and after using the AirPods Max, the H95s are like pillows on my ears.


----------



## AudioBomb (Sep 23, 2021)

AudioBomb said:


> Nuraphones blow Nura True out of the water. Its not just the bass that's insane, but the mids and highs that are on another level of resolution and the separation/3D imaging thats immediatelly noticed. Noticeably superior. There's alot more space between instruments and that holographic effect that I'm accostumed to in much (much) more expensive headphones. You can pinpoint instruments with great accuracy here. I hate this cliché expression, but the difference is night and day, so huge they can't be compared. I thought they could be a bit better than the Nura Trues, maybe just the bass, but that is not the case at all. These play on another league and will be hard to be beaten by other BT headphones. They are totally worth the price (399€ new), it's a crime if you choose a SONY 1000X M4 for example, over these. They're on ebay for 150€-200€, this is a steal.0
> Seal was immediate, comfort excellent after 2 hours of use and ANC/isolation in these headphones is world-class. ANC still not on par with BOSE QC II, but still very good. Ambient mode is great, you can hear everything and talk with someone with the headphones in your ears. Call quality one of the best I've tried so far.
> 
> I guess its a goodbye to this thread, found my BT headohones. See you in heaven.


Even the 2000€ Anole VX didn't give me this experience. lol. This is amazing!


----------



## clerkpalmer

erockg said:


> I was in the same position.  I got rid of my PI7s and Noble.  Kept the Gemini and acquired the EQs and H95s.  Always wanted those H95s and after using the AirPods Max, the H95s are like pillows on my ears.


Hmm.  I prefer fit of PI7 with the Sednas so I'm reluctant to sell them off (again).


----------



## voicemaster

clerkpalmer said:


> Off topic but as a huge fan of the Deva, this looks pretty cool:
> 
> https://www.ecoustics.com/products/hifiman-himalaya-r2r-dac-module/


Wish it work for sundara.


----------



## TK33

erockg said:


> @TK33 what kind of EQ settings are you using on those Shure TW2s?  Such a strange interface, still messing around a lot over here.  Then again, maybe you're not EQing...


Not EQing the SE846. Sorry. I like them as is.  I hear you on the EW interface though.  Wish they went 5 band so we could play with some of the auto EQ settings out there.  

I tried messing with it for my Aonic 50 but eventually went back to no EQ there too.


----------



## clerkpalmer

voicemaster said:


> Wish it work for sundara.


Yeah, hopefully HFM finds a way to integrate this technology across their lineup.


----------



## BooleanBones

erockg said:


> I was in the same position.  I got rid of my PI7s and Noble.  Kept the Gemini and acquired the EQs and H95s.  Always wanted those H95s and after using the AirPods Max, the H95s are like pillows on my ears.


They truly are uber comfortable.


----------



## clerkpalmer

BooleanBones said:


> They truly are uber comfortable.


You guys think they are worthy of the price tag sq wise?


----------



## BooleanBones (Sep 23, 2021)

clerkpalmer said:


> You guys think they are worthy of the price tag sq wise?


So that price and my price I paid are different. I would say anything from the price @erockg got and down is pretty good. Put it this way, they are worth more than the 200$ difference over the EQ's if you don't mind the cans. Very portable too. I would say that it is pricey enough that you should make sure you can return them if you so choose unless money is no object.


----------



## TooFrank

clerkpalmer said:


> Just got an email offering the H95 for $649 with coupon from B&O.  I had been thinking of returning the EQs due to fit problems (sound is killer).  Sooooooooooooo return the EQs which cost $400 for the H95?  Help!


Not much help as I haven’t tried the EQs, but do love the H95s…..and they shouldn’t have a fit problem. ANC not as good as XM3, but ok.


----------



## erockg

BooleanBones said:


> So that price and my price are different. I would say anything from the price @erockg got and down is pretty good. Put it this way, they are worth more than the 200$ difference over the EQ's if you don't mind the cans. Very portable too.


@clerkpalmer you're talking to two dudes who have them both  Or at least I think @BooleanBones still has both.  I love the EQs and the H95s for different reasons.  H95s are great at home to just focus and deal with zoom calls.  ANC blocks out my neighbors well enough too.  The EQs, I like to just slip in my pocket and go.  Small, light and pack some nice punch.  Bigger soundstage with the H95s, but the EQs are no slouches.  If you enjoy Bang & Olufsen, then you'll really like them.  Everything about them is gorgeous IMO.  Plus, I think you'll have that 30 day return policy when you purchase off their website.  It's a tough call, I do get it.  I know you love your PI7s, I truly wanted to as well, but B&O products are just gorgeous.  Excuse me while a take a sip of this Kool Aid over here...


----------



## BooleanBones

TooFrank said:


> Not much help as I haven’t tried the EQs, but do love the H95s…..and they shouldn’t have a fit problem. ANC not as good as XM3, but ok.


Uh oh, watch out, @TooFrank popped in here. Might as well just buy them now


----------



## BooleanBones

erockg said:


> @clerkpalmer you're talking to two dudes who have them both  Or at least I think @BooleanBones still has both.  I love the EQs and the H95s for different reasons.  H95s are great at home to just focus and deal with zoom calls.  ANC blocks out my neighbors well enough too.  The EQs, I like to just slip in my pocket and go.  Small, light and pack some nice punch.  Bigger soundstage with the H95s, but the EQs are no slouches.  If you enjoy Bang & Olufsen, then you'll really like them.  Everything about them is gorgeous IMO.  Plus, I think you'll have that 30 day return policy when you purchase off their website.  It's a tough call, I do get it.  I know you love your PI7s, I truly wanted to as well, but B&O products are just gorgeous.  Excuse me while a take a sip of this Kool Aid over here...


Spot on. I don't recall Euro volumes being an issue for @clerkpalmer, but like their other headphones, they don't go quite as loud as some other (both the EQs and the H95s). Keep that in mind if big volume is your thing though.


----------



## Luke Skywalker

clerkpalmer said:


> Yeah, same here.  They look interesting enough and LDAC is worth exploring.  $160 for the BA and $120 for the DD.  Slow shipping from China.  Not sure about these.  Maybe if they were on amazon I'd bite.


Yeah I did the kickstarter.  I actually hadn't checked my mail in a while so I'm not sure how long they'd been sitting in my mailbox.  

I just wish I had an LDAC or UAT source to fully unleash these things


----------



## jant71

Philips with a couple more TWS outside of the Fidelio model...





The Fidelio...


----------



## Luke Skywalker

clerkpalmer said:


> Just got an email offering the H95 for $649 with coupon from B&O.  I had been thinking of returning the EQs due to fit problems (sound is killer).  Sooooooooooooo return the EQs which cost $400 for the H95?  Help!


Those look sweet, I hadn't heard of them.  $849 on B&O's site.  I kind of wish they had LDAC for that much cheese though https://www.bang-olufsen.com/en/us/headphones/beoplay-h95


----------



## Luke Skywalker

erockg said:


> I was in the same position.  I got rid of my PI7s and Noble.  Kept the Gemini and acquired the EQs and H95s.  Always wanted those H95s and after using the AirPods Max, the H95s are like pillows on my ears.


Wow... So would you say that the H95s are the best wireless cans out there?  Or at least the best ones with ANC?  The wife has the Bose QC35s but I want something truly supreme.  My current cans are Audeze LCD-2


----------



## Luke Skywalker

Hmm... Trying to figure out what to buy next here.  The Gemini's are sweet, as are the Fiio UTSW3 + JH Lola,  and the Klipsch's are coming soon...

I'm thinking one or more of these:

AONIC 215, Gen 2
B&O EQ
B&O H95
What do you guys think?


----------



## Tommy C (Sep 23, 2021)

Luke Skywalker said:


> Hmm... Trying to figure out what to buy next here.  The Gemini's are sweet, as are the Fiio UTSW3 + JH Lola,  and the Klipsch's are coming soon...
> 
> I'm thinking one or more of these:
> 
> ...



I have neither but thinking of getting the Shure AONIC 215 Gen 2 as well.  That adapter will definitely become handy.
Was also considering the B&O EQ but watched a review on YT and other than the sound quality which must be superb, the rest of the features are pretty mediocre including phones calls which is a must nowadays.

I may wait until the holidays to see if the B&O EQ goes on sale but as for the Shure I already found a great deal locally.


----------



## BooleanBones (Sep 23, 2021)

Luke Skywalker said:


> Hmm... Trying to figure out what to buy next here.  The Gemini's are sweet, as are the Fiio UTSW3 + JH Lola,  and the Klipsch's are coming soon...
> 
> I'm thinking one or more of these:
> 
> ...


I think the H95s are right there at the top. I think they would be a knockout blow to the others if they were $500-550. They are well built, super comfy, sound great, and have some really cool features (albeit not overwhelming amount). The physical dials on the cups just absolutely rock. There is always someone that says I like this better (dalis), etc. Huge thread though on the H95s that you can read through and see what you think.


----------



## erockg

Luke Skywalker said:


> Hmm... Trying to figure out what to buy next here.  The Gemini's are sweet, as are the Fiio UTSW3 + JH Lola,  and the Klipsch's are coming soon...
> 
> I'm thinking one or more of these:
> 
> ...


I'd only get the Shure TW2 adapters if you're willing to add a better IEM from Shure on them. IMO the SE215s are decent but you can do better.  I have all three and they're all amazing.  Very different from one another as far as form factor.  Knowing you, you'll have them all eventually


----------



## assassin10000

I'm waiting for the new UTWS5 adapters from Fiio. Which should be out soon'ish.


----------



## jwong

Anyone compared the Galaxy Buds Pro with the Galaxy Buds2?

I'm getting both in a few days as part of a tablet bundle. I don't need both (heck I don't really even need one) so I'll sell one, but I'd rather sell it unopened if I could decide which I'd be more likely to prefer.


----------



## clerkpalmer

BooleanBones said:


> I think the H95s are right there at the top. I think they would be a knockout blow to the others if they were $500-550. They are well built, super comfy, sound great, and have some really cool features (albeit not overwhelming amount). The physical dials on the cups just absolutely rock. There is always someone that says I like this better (dalis), etc. Huge thread though on the H95s that you can read through and see what you think.


Thanks all for the impressions. I'm on the fence. 650 is a Lotta coin. Could grab some pretty high end midfi open backs for that. I don't really need anc but I am loving that EQ sound profile. Sitting in my cart with an itchy trigger finger... I wish they were 500ish. 

In the meantime I found a hiby wh2 BA version in the classifieds today. Arrive tomorrow. I didn't realize they support LDAC was that a late addition?


----------



## Luke Skywalker

clerkpalmer said:


> Thanks all for the impressions. I'm on the fence. 650 is a Lotta coin. Could grab some pretty high end midfi open backs for that. I don't really need anc but I am loving that EQ sound profile. Sitting in my cart with an itchy trigger finger... I wish they were 500ish.
> 
> In the meantime I found a hiby wh2 BA version in the classifieds today. Arrive tomorrow. I didn't realize they support LDAC was that a late addition?


Any chance that coupon that gets them down to $650 is “shareable”?  I think I’d pull the trigger at that price.


----------



## DigDub

jwong said:


> Anyone compared the Galaxy Buds Pro with the Galaxy Buds2?
> 
> I'm getting both in a few days as part of a tablet bundle. I don't need both (heck I don't really even need one) so I'll sell one, but I'd rather sell it unopened if I could decide which I'd be more likely to prefer.


Buds pro sounds better but fit is finicky. Buds 2 is more comfortable but sound quality is not that good.


----------



## clerkpalmer

Luke Skywalker said:


> Any chance that coupon that gets them down to $650 is “shareable”?  I think I’d pull the trigger at that


----------



## Luke Skywalker

Wow, I was half joking!  thanks so much

It looks like the voucher only applies to the Grey Mist color... I'd been thinking of getting black and when I apply it, it doesn't seem to do anything.  I tried H95BLACK and got a "There has been an error creating your voucher. Please try again later." message.  Haha, that would've been too easy


----------



## clerkpalmer

Luke Skywalker said:


> Wow, I was half joking!  thanks so much
> 
> It looks like the voucher only applies to the Grey Mist color... I'd been thinking of getting black and when I apply it, it doesn't seem to do anything.  I tried H95BLACK and got a "There has been an error creating your voucher. Please try again later." message.  Haha, that would've been too easy


Yeah grey only.


----------



## Robius

jwong said:


> Anyone compared the Galaxy Buds Pro with the Galaxy Buds2?
> 
> I'm getting both in a few days as part of a tablet bundle. I don't need both (heck I don't really even need one) so I'll sell one, but I'd rather sell it unopened if I could decide which I'd be more likely to prefer.


----------



## highlightshadow

Posted in classifieds too--- but anyone in UK got a set of Soundcore Liberty 2 Pro (plus) large wings that they don't need/use and would send/sell me.
Soundcore can't supply them at present and i managed to slightly damage one of my large ones which i use


----------



## jwong

DigDub said:


> Buds pro sounds better but fit is finicky. Buds 2 is more comfortable but sound quality is not that good.



Thanks! Comfort is probably my top priority for buds, since I use over-ears for more critical stuff, but it's a shame the top model isn't the best in everything.


----------



## voicemaster

jwong said:


> Thanks! Comfort is probably my top priority for buds, since I use over-ears for more critical stuff, but it's a shame the top model isn't the best in everything.


Comfort is very subjective. Even on the same head, you can have a different fit between your left and right ear. My friend has to use XL tips on his right ear and L on his left. I have galaxy buds pro and it fit me just fine and comfortable. The buds 2 is smaller in size so of course it will fit much larger demographic of people.


----------



## dweaver

I have struggling mightily with not buying the Audio Technica ATHCKR7TW London Drugs in Canada is clearing out at $60. I bought a pair about a year ago and returned them because a hiss issue. 

My challenge is why am I bothering thinking of trying them again aside from wanting to try something different! 

They were not worth their original asking price for sure and are probably a good deal for someone who doesn't have a good True Wireless on a very tight budget. But I own several high quality TWS and at least 2 of them will have a similar sound signature.


Talk me off the ledge people...


----------



## nekonhime

dweaver said:


> I have struggling mightily with not buying the Audio Technica ATHCKR7TW London Drugs in Canada is clearing out at $60. I bought a pair about a year ago and returned them because a hiss issue.
> 
> My challenge is why am I bothering thinking of trying them again aside from wanting to try something different!
> 
> ...


I am currently have them right now, sound good, no hiss issue and stable connection. So yeah, just buy them lol


----------



## scubaphish

nekonhime said:


> I am currently have them right now, sound good, no hiss issue and stable connection. So yeah, just buy them lol


I guess that’s one way off the ledge…


----------



## dj24

secondipity via eBay has *Sony WF-1000XM4 Noise Canceling Wireless Earbuds* (Refurbished, Black or White) on sale for *$178*. *Shipping is free*.


Comes with 2-year comprehensive warranty from Allstate

Available Colors:

Black *$178*
White *$178*


----------



## dweaver

nekonhime said:


> I am currently have them right now, sound good, no hiss issue and stable connection. So yeah, just buy them lol





scubaphish said:


> I guess that’s one way off the ledge…


LOL thanks you two .

It is tempting because that is a good low price. But I do own the AZ70 which has good mids and treble and the Galaxy Buds Pro with similar good mids and treble .

The trials and tribulations of a Head-fi addict... Lol


----------



## Tommy C

dweaver said:


> LOL thanks you two .
> 
> It is tempting because that is a good low price. But I do own the AZ70 which has good mids and treble and the Galaxy Buds Pro with similar good mids and treble .
> 
> The trials and tribulations of a Head-fi addict... Lol


Dang. Noticed they also have the Technics for $200. I’m tempted. Also Shoppers Drug Mart has the Sennheiser CX400BT for $98 and if you have Optimum points that you can use, that’s a great deal.


----------



## vsg28

I'll just leave these here:


----------



## jant71

Only other impression I've seen in English besides mine and they match up 
https://www.scarbir.com/tws/nuarl-n6-pro2-review


----------



## tinyman392

vsg28 said:


> I'll just leave these here:


Measurements look accurate enough to what I hear.  Mismatch between left and right might be a tad annoying.  At least the pinna gain is in a better location with this (vs TWS600).


----------



## vsg28

tinyman392 said:


> Measurements look accurate enough to what I hear.  Mismatch between left and right might be a tad annoying.  At least the pinna gain is in a better location with this (vs TWS600).


The channel imbalance in the measurements isn't as bad a deal in the actual ears, especially with the multi-flanged tips provided. These are massive buds though, bigger than nearly everything other in-ear set (wired or otherwise) I've tested.


----------



## jant71

New AT(from the filing)....

Application Details:​

EquipmentWireless HeadphonesFRN0028730448Grantee CodeJFZProduct CodeCKS50TWRApplicant BusinessAudio-Technica Corporation

Of course another 5 series is okay but for AT probably should only take seriously 7 and 9 series. Still waiting for a true wireless 9 series.


----------



## tinyman392

vsg28 said:


> The channel imbalance in the measurements isn't as bad a deal in the actual ears, especially with the multi-flanged tips provided. These are massive buds though, bigger than nearly everything other in-ear set (wired or otherwise) I've tested.


I’m aware of how big they are.  Those drives like to flex, I got a better fit with Spinfit tips.  If there is imbalance between my right and left, I don’t notice it.


----------



## Luke Skywalker

Just ordered the B&O EQ


----------



## Luke Skywalker

Sitting in a store while the wife shops, listening to Lorde (Tidal) on the HiBy WH2s (Iphone). Sounds pretty amazing and the seal is so good I’m not hearing much background noise even without ANC


----------



## dweaver

Tommy C said:


> Dang. Noticed they also have the Technics for $200. I’m tempted. Also Shoppers Drug Mart has the Sennheiser CX400BT for $98 and if you have Optimum points that you can use, that’s a great deal.


I saw those 400BT at Shoppers Drug Mart as well they were also tempting . I paid $200 for my AZ70 and feel they were worth every penny.

These AT's are tempting at $60 but I am going pass. Just need to wait till that AZ60 comes to Canada and then go on sale LOL.


----------



## clerkpalmer

Luke Skywalker said:


> Sitting in a store while the wife shops, listening to Lorde (Tidal) on the HiBy WH2s (Iphone). Sounds pretty amazing and the seal is so good I’m not hearing much background noise even without ANC


What tips are you using? She's the one married to Elon?


----------



## voicemaster

clerkpalmer said:


> What tips are you using? She's the one married to Elon?


Thats grimes not lorde lol unless u know something xD


----------



## clerkpalmer

voicemaster said:


> Thats grimes not lorde lol unless u know something


Whoops.


----------



## Tommy C

dweaver said:


> I saw those 400BT at Shoppers Drug Mart as well they were also tempting . I paid $200 for my AZ70 and feel they were worth every penny.
> 
> These AT's are tempting at $60 but I am going pass. Just need to wait till that AZ60 comes to Canada and then go on sale LOL.



Out of curiosity I have watched Flossy Carter's vid as he reviewed them.
The app doesn't have eq, voice is coming out of the right bud only during phone calls and they lack features. 
He also felt like the sound quality wasn't wort their $250 asking price but for $60 CAD ? Possibly lol.


----------



## AudioBomb

Interesting Dual Balanced Armature Mifo Q5 Professional GEN2:

https://www.earbuds.ie/mifo-o5-pro-gen-2-balanced-armature/


----------



## Tommy C

AudioBomb said:


> Interesting Dual Balanced Armature Mifo Q5 Professional GEN2:
> 
> https://www.earbuds.ie/mifo-o5-pro-gen-2-balanced-armature/



Looks like Mifo still doesn't have an app for FW updates and EQ at the very least which is almost an automatic pass for me unless they are cheap enough to mess around with.


----------



## AudioBomb

Tommy C said:


> Looks like Mifo still doesn't have an app for FW updates and EQ at the very least which is almost an automatic pass for me unless they are cheap enough to mess around with.


oh... I see.


----------



## AudioBomb (Sep 25, 2021)

Well, Nuraphone still surprises me everyday. It's total madness, I can't stop enjoying that unreal bass experience and the sound quality in general. Unbeleavable for a BT headphone. I had a negative idea of BT headphones, because in the past the only BT's I've tried were SONY 1000X M3 and a few others in the price range and they sounded so poor, that I thought BT was not for me, I was accostumed to so much better (wired) and I gave up. But several years have passed and things are so different now. 1000X M4 is still not this good, but seems that several other brands are doing really well. If I find a IEM that gives me the experience of the Nuraphone, I'm all over it. I don't like full size much due to  portability.

I have a guess on the 3 driver one from Noble Audio. I don't care about ANC, I just need good isolation. I might give it a go.


----------



## HaliHarry (Sep 25, 2021)

dweaver said:


> I saw those 400BT at Shoppers Drug Mart as well they were also tempting . I paid $200 for my AZ70 and feel they were worth every penny.
> 
> These AT's are tempting at $60 but I am going pass. Just need to wait till that AZ60 comes to Canada and then go on sale LOL.


https://ascii.jp/elem/000/004/069/4069083/3/
Comparison with AZ70. Use gg translate if you can
Really looking forward to it


----------



## clerkpalmer

Luke Skywalker said:


> Sitting in a store while the wife shops, listening to Lorde (Tidal) on the HiBy WH2s (Iphone). Sounds pretty amazing and the seal is so good I’m not hearing much background noise even without ANC


I second this.  Just got mine.  Dual BA, running Qobuz with LDAC.  If you are a fan of balanced (i.e. not consumer sound), these are pretty nice.  They sound very open and crisp with a ton of air.  They are a little bass light but you can tweak via the crossover and the EQ.  I moved the crossover to balanced, kicked up the bass and dropped the treble and they sound very very good.  Remind me of the Advanced M2 in a good way but with a better form factor and LDAC.

App is really nice too.  Any they are tiny.  Got Killers Pressure Machine running and they excel at this kind of music. Biggest drawback is new tips don't fit in the case which is frankly a PIA.


----------



## Luke Skywalker (Sep 25, 2021)

clerkpalmer said:


> What tips are you using? She's the one married to Elon?


I’ve been using the Acoustune AET08s for a few years on all my TWS except for the Bose on which they won’t fit after a guy on another thread recommended them for the Lola. They’re amazing

Only issue I’ve had is squeezing the buds in the case. It’s also an issue on the Jabra 65

https://www.mtmtaudio.com/products/...os=1&_sid=6b3924c71&_ss=r&variant=45850929043


----------



## dweaver

HaliHarry said:


> https://ascii.jp/elem/000/004/069/4069083/3/
> Comparison with AZ70. Use gg translate if you can
> Really looking forward to it


Thanks for the link, great article. I think these are the ones for me too. If they are slightly less bright than the AZ70 that's OK as it will allow for slightly louder volume and make it more balanced. The addition of LDAC will be a welcome addition and it sounds like the voice call is better and I really like the addition of multipoint.

So am going to do my best to Stop buying new stuff until these become available so I can afford them.


----------



## AudioBomb (Sep 25, 2021)

Nuraphone's BT 4.0 doesn't seem to be a limitation. Works pretty well on my whole apartment (T4). Solid connection wherever I am. 20 hours play time seems pretty decent too.

Having in account the sound quality of this beast, it's still for me, the best BT headphone you can buy under 400€. I was a bit concerned about fit, because my left ear is problematic, but it fits perfectly. Comfort is very good in my case too. ANC's superb. Very pleased with the headphone.


----------



## Tommy C

dweaver said:


> Thanks for the link, great article. I think these are the ones for me too. If they are slightly less bright than the AZ70 that's OK as it will allow for slightly louder volume and make it more balanced. The addition of LDAC will be a welcome addition and it sounds like the voice call is better and I really like the addition of multipoint.
> 
> So am going to do my best to Stop buying new stuff until these become available so I can afford them.



On a separate note, I see that Visions have discounted the Audiofly AFT2 (black) to $68 and I recall you got them not so long ago so might be able to use the 60 Day Lowest Price Guarantee to match the current  price.


----------



## Luke Skywalker (Sep 25, 2021)

clerkpalmer said:


> I second this.  Just got mine.  Dual BA, running Qobuz with LDAC.  If you are a fan of balanced (i.e. not consumer sound), these are pretty nice.  They sound very open and crisp with a ton of air.  They are a little bass light but you can tweak via the crossover and the EQ.  I moved the crossover to balanced, kicked up the bass and dropped the treble and they sound very very good.  Remind me of the Advanced M2 in a good way but with a better form factor and LDAC.
> 
> App is really nice too.  Any they are tiny.  Got Killers Pressure Machine running and they excel at this kind of music. Biggest drawback is new tips don't fit in the case which is frankly a PIA.


Hey glad you like them! Are you using LDAC?

 I didn’t know there was an app haha. ios?  I don’t see it on the App Store

*edit* link to iOS app for any other dummies that didn’t know about it  https://apps.apple.com/us/app/hiby-blue/id1460121708


----------



## clerkpalmer

Luke Skywalker said:


> Hey glad you like them! Are you using LDAC?
> 
> I didn’t know there was an app haha. ios?  I don’t see it on the App Store
> 
> *edit* link to iOS app for any other dummies that didn’t know about it  https://apps.apple.com/us/app/hiby-blue/id1460121708


LDAC yes and the app is pretty decent. Not half baked at all.


----------



## Caipirina

Update on Bose QC Earbuds! (sorry if this has been mentioned before, I am 18 pages behind and I did a quick search on 'Bose', but results are not in chronological order)

I just noticed, after updating the Bose Music iOS app that there was a different voice prompt (battery FULL) .. and checking the app I get a message about new stuff (and I have not even updated firmware yet) .. but there's now an EQ ... with 4 presets which then can also be modified .. not sure if those then can be saved ... bit basic compared to others, but now I get the dynamic extra umpf I was missing ... and they changed the switch cycle of the NC modes, before it was 3 settings that you could select (like 0, 5, 10) and cycle through those, but I guess I was not the only one who found that 3rd setting rather useless, now it is just switching between 'quiet' and 'aware' (whatever happened to the previous Bose voice? this one sounds ... weird ... ) ...  anyways, who knows what else I find  

But these Bose QC Earbuds are now my fav running buds. Only in strong rain I now use the Baseus Enkoc W11, of which I will write a bit more at another time.


----------



## J_3000

AudioBomb said:


> Interesting Dual Balanced Armature Mifo Q5 Professional GEN2:
> 
> https://www.earbuds.ie/mifo-o5-pro-gen-2-balanced-armature/


10hrs per charge and 120hrs - 150hrs in the case  aptX-HD support. The specs make it seem like the marketing team has been on crack while writing this.


----------



## DigDub

DigDub said:


> Creative outlier air v3.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


So after playing around with the EQ in the app, the best one is the R&B preset EQ, brings out the highs properly.


----------



## voicemaster

J_3000 said:


> 10hrs per charge and 120hrs - 150hrs in the case  aptX-HD support. The specs make it seem like the marketing team has been on crack while writing this.


Holy!! 10 hours with Aptx HD.


----------



## Tommy C

Not really sure I understand the Sennheiser marketing team. They are just launching the new CX Plus for $180 and discounting the Momentum TW2 to $200 so while its successor is probably coming down the pipe soon it’s an odd marketing strategy to let them go head to head like that in a similar price bracket.


----------



## J_3000

voicemaster said:


> Holy!! 10 hours with Aptx HD.


I seriously doubt AptX-HD, but even with AptX this is impressing. No one has these? Amazon.de is out of stock. Would prefer to buy from there for easy returns.


----------



## voicemaster

J_3000 said:


> I seriously doubt AptX-HD, but even with AptX this is impressing. No one has these? Amazon.de is out of stock. Would prefer to buy from there for easy returns.


Without AptX HD, it is good but not impressive for 10 hours run time. My Monolith M-TWE got around 10 hours too, so does my Nuarl N6P.


----------



## J_3000

voicemaster said:


> Without AptX HD, it is good but not impressive for 10 hours run time. My Monolith M-TWE got around 10 hours too, so does my Nuarl N6P.


Yeah but case over 10 charges?


----------



## dweaver

Tommy C said:


> On a separate note, I see that Visions have discounted the Audiofly AFT2 (black) to $68 and I recall you got them not so long ago so might be able to use the 60 Day Lowest Price Guarantee to match the current  price.


Thanks I will do that  $30 dollars in my jeans .


----------



## AudioBomb

voicemaster said:


> Without AptX HD, it is good but not impressive for 10 hours run time. My Monolith M-TWE got around 10 hours too, so does my Nuarl N6P.


Are you seriously going to listen to it for 10 consecutive hours? Because it lasts 120 hours in the charging case.


----------



## Caipirina (Sep 26, 2021)

Baseus Encok W11

i am pretty sure someone posted an image of those a while back, wondering if they are any good. Intrigued by the Bose StayHear style / emulation I had to give them a try. And at this price (they fluctuate between 22.99 and 29.99$) I am very happy with them!

TL;DR: these make very good (spare) running buds!

I really enjoy the sound of these: energetic / bass-y, perfect for work out. (10mm dynamic driver, one reviewer on AE found them too bass-y, but fixed it with a smaller ear tip). The fit is great, just like the Bose, minus the wings. Actually the buds themselves work like wings (depending on ear size).
I had no issues while running and they are *nearly thudless*!

best feature: *IPX8*!

I get nervous with my Bose QC earbuds in the rain. I had the Baseus on 2 heavy rain runs and no issues.
The buttons are basic: pause / play / next / back / assistant … no volume.
To my surprise, only after 2 weeks of using them, I find out they have an app! Nothing stellar, a location feature, remapping of touches and there seems to be a low latency mode (and a vague promise of 'OTA' .. fw updates I guess) .
 What else you get: aac/sbc. Wireless charging. Allegedly 10min gives you 4h … that sounds very optimistic  usb C.
Not 3 but 4 size rubber tips. There is something called ‘2C double flash charge’ … no idea what that means.
The case is medium boring, but at least nothing criminal like switched sides


----------



## jant71

Tommy C said:


> Not really sure I understand the Sennheiser marketing team. They are just launching the new CX Plus for $180 and discounting the Momentum TW2 to $200 so while its successor is probably coming down the pipe soon it’s an odd marketing strategy to let them go head to head like that in a similar price bracket.


Not sure if that is the odd thing. That they have them out there at the same time is more the odd thing. The price they don't have much choice. The MTW2 isn't gonna be lower nor can it still be $120 more than a newer model they say has the best sound. They can tout the "Momentum" build quality and since they have more battery in the case they charge $20 more. Since it is really the MTW2 reworked they should be in the same price range.


----------



## Cornilius

Getting tired of replacing my usbc to headphone jack dongle every couple months. 

Currently running mee pinnacle p1s and I love them (going on 4 or 5 years using them daily in the office). 

I like em easy on the bass, high on detail and a big soundstage. I listen to Ska, jazz, punk, alt rock, prog rock, Podcasts & phone calls. 

These will be in ears 8-10 hrs per day so comfort is important, needs to be good for work calls. Don't need ANC but a transparency mode could be useful (not needed). 

Thinking $150-$200 should do it. Thoughts?

Thinking the hiby wh2 DBA seems attractive.


----------



## AudioBomb

Cornilius said:


> Getting tired of replacing my usbc to headphone jack dongle every couple months.
> 
> Currently running mee pinnacle p1s and I love them (going on 4 or 5 years using them daily in the office).
> 
> ...


Nura True.


----------



## jant71 (Sep 26, 2021)

Cornilius said:


> Getting tired of replacing my usbc to headphone jack dongle every couple months.
> 
> Currently running mee pinnacle p1s and I love them (going on 4 or 5 years using them daily in the office).
> 
> ...



The Jabra Elite 7 Pro comes out Friday. They tout new tech(software + bone conduction) that should be really good for calls and they get 9 hours per charge and 5 minutes for an hour more. The new shape and smaller size should be comfortable. Only the Elite 3 is out so far to judge but it seems they may very well be going more balanced on the bass and sound. Though the jury is still out on the promises of how good they sound. Worth checking out as an option.


----------



## Tommy C

jant71 said:


> Not sure if that is the odd thing. That they have them out there at the same time is more the odd thing. The price they don't have much choice. The MTW2 isn't gonna be lower nor can it still be $120 more than a newer model they say has the best sound. They can tout the "Momentum" build quality and since they have more battery in the case they charge $20 more. Since it is really the MTW2 reworked they should be in the same price range.


Yup, I meant the timing of having both offers especially as this is a Sennheiser Direct discount and not just Amazon. 
As a consumer, I rather pay the $20 extra to get the superior product despite them being around for a while they are still very relevant.


----------



## Cornilius

jant71 said:


> The Jabra Elite 7 Pro comes out Friday. They tout new tech(software + bone conduction) that should be really good for calls and they get 9 hours per charge and 5 minutes for an hour more. The new shape and smaller size should be comfortable. Only the Elite 3 is out so far to judge but it seems they may very well be going more balanced on the bass and sound. Though the jury is still out on the promises of how good they sound. Worth checking out as an option.


Looking into these as an option, thanks for the heads up. 

I had already taken the nura true off my list. Seems like you're paying a premium for the EQ gimmick, not so much for great sound quality. Maybe I'm wrong.


----------



## Tommy C

Cornilius said:


> Getting tired of replacing my usbc to headphone jack dongle every couple months.
> 
> Currently running mee pinnacle p1s and I love them (going on 4 or 5 years using them daily in the office).
> 
> ...



How about the Technics AZ70? 
I don't have them but based on your requirements they may fit the bill.


----------



## jant71 (Sep 26, 2021)

Tommy C said:


> Yup, I meant the timing of having both offers especially as this is a Sennheiser Direct discount and not just Amazon.
> As a consumer, I rather pay the $20 extra to get the superior product despite them being around for a while they are still very relevant.



Might be up for debate which is superior. If one thinks having adaptive, a hour more battery life, a smaller case, and perhaps the newer one with 5.2 might have a little better stability in the connection then you might go with the PLUS. Plus, it is $20 cheaper so quite a few might say the PLUS is slightly better. Senn said it themselves on announcement as being the same exact driver but the PLUS capable of the best sound with as they put it "compatible devices" meaning the adaptive would push it ahead.

As a consumer, I would save the $20. The 8 vs. 7 hours on the battery is better with the ANC and the case life has never been a big deal to me. Cause you always charge up before it gets too low. So 1 charge difference makes no real difference to me. If it were 40 hours with one case vs. 21 on the other maybe. The Momentum is built better but on a bud that will be replaced soon enough. It isn't gonna have to last for years. You might have a classic Senn HD that is 30 years old but at this point in time either TWS should make it two years just fine and they would be sold, gifted, or sitting in the drawer by then.


----------



## HaliHarry

I have found that Dolby Atmos mode on Apple music works on all headphones as long as the song supports it.  they make significant differences and they can be better or worse depending on your taste.


----------



## voicemaster

AudioBomb said:


> Are you seriously going to listen to it for 10 consecutive hours? Because it lasts 120 hours in the charging case.


No, close to 8 hours maybe. What I meant with my statement is that there are several TWS that reach 10+ hours on a single charge, but most of them only has regular AptX. If mifo O5 pro can reach 10 hours with AptX HD then it is quite impressive. I have mifo O7 and I love its sound, but from my experience, the single BA distort at high volume. I would rather they put another BA driver and use smaller battery to 8 hours. Speaking of battery in the case, my cheapo Ofusho has 140+ hrs worth of charge in the case back then in 2017 or 2018.


----------



## AudioBomb (Sep 26, 2021)

voicemaster said:


> No, close to 8 hours maybe. What I meant with my statement is that there are several TWS that reach 10+ hours on a single charge, but most of them only has regular AptX. If mifo O5 pro can reach 10 hours with AptX HD then it is quite impressive. I have mifo O7 and I love its sound, but from my experience, the single BA distort at high volume. I would rather they put another BA driver and use smaller battery to 8 hours. Speaking of battery in the case, my cheapo Ofusho has 140+ hrs worth of charge in the case back then in 2017 or 2018.


Dude, you didn't get it. This ****ing IEM will play for 120 hours. When you put it in the charging case, it is charging the IEM. 10 times until you have to charge the charging case again. This is literally months of battery in my case without having to charge the case.


----------



## AudioBomb (Sep 26, 2021)

double post.


----------



## dweaver (Sep 26, 2021)

Cornilius said:


> Getting tired of replacing my usbc to headphone jack dongle every couple months.
> 
> Currently running mee pinnacle p1s and I love them (going on 4 or 5 years using them daily in the office).
> 
> ...


I second Tommy C recommendation of the Technics AZ70, they sound right in your wheel house for signature and while they are a bit big in regards to sticking out, they are comfortable. The call quality also seems decent to me. They go on sale quite often at least here in Canada. I paid $200CAD for my pair.

Another option might be Galaxy Buds Pro but as much as I like them because of IPX7 rating, smaller size, and very low ear pressure, they are a finicky fit.

The new Galaxy Buds 2 are also an option and they look less finicky than the Pro model but most people who have tried both says the pro sounds a bit better.

I do own both AZ70 and Galaxy Bud Pro and find I like both signature wise. The Pro is a strong AKG house signature. So if your familiar with and like the AKG house sound you will like the Pro. The AZ70 is a bit similar but has deeper sub-bass and slightly less emphasized midrange making is a bit less shouty and able give a bit more sub-bass rumble. I find it as detailed as the Pro but more relaxed.

In regards to ANC the AZ70 is definitely better being almost as good as Sony whereas the Pro is just OK in this area. If you like hear through mode they both offer great implementations of this.


----------



## voicemaster

AudioBomb said:


> Dude, you didn't get it. This ****ing IEM will play for 120 hours. When you put it in the charging case, it is charging the IEM. 10 times until you have to charge the charging case again. This is literally months of battery in my case without having to charge the case.


Dude, I have 30+ tws and I know what I am talking about. It is 10 hours playing time in a SINGLE charge. 


152 hours battery life when you charge it with the case. So it is actually larger than the mifo.


----------



## Luke Skywalker

Cornilius said:


> Getting tired of replacing my usbc to headphone jack dongle every couple months.
> 
> Currently running mee pinnacle p1s and I love them (going on 4 or 5 years using them daily in the office).
> 
> ...


You might dig the Audioquest dragonfly


----------



## Cornilius

Luke Skywalker said:


> You might dig the Audioquest dragonfly



I don't know why, but it's always the usb c to X connection that always fails. I've gone through 3 since March. I found a couple DACs that don't have a wire connection between the USB c & headphone jack which I might consider. But the dragonflys require a usbc to usba dongle which I'm sure will fail quickly. Same as how charging cables don't last either. I really have to wireless charge anyway, why can't my phone just have a damn headphone jack instead of the USB c port.... 

Looking into the AZ70 now as well.


----------



## AudioBomb (Sep 26, 2021)

voicemaster said:


> Dude, I have 30+ tws and I know what I am talking about. It is 10 hours playing time in a SINGLE charge.
> 
> 152 hours battery life when you charge it with the case. So it is actually larger than the mifo.


And what's the point of a SINGLE charge in this specific case? It charges whenever you put it in the case. 120 Hours DUDE! lol. You are not going to listen to it for 10 consecutive hours. lol.

hehe. Messing with you, but you have to agree with the logic.


----------



## Luke Skywalker

Tommy C said:


> How about the Technics AZ70?
> I don't have them but based on your requirements they may fit the bill.


Just to throw it out there… I tried the Technics and disliked them so much I returned them. Didn’t like the XM3’s at all either.

My favorites are the Devialet, Hiby WH2, Bose, and nuarl N6 Pro


----------



## Luke Skywalker

I don’t think you’re supposed to listen to in ear earphones for more than 3 or 4 hours on a stretch anyway. can cause Tinnitus


----------



## voicemaster

AudioBomb said:


> And what's the point of a SINGLE charge in this specific case? It charges whenever you put it in the case. 120 Hours DUDE! lol. You are not going to listen to it for 10 consecutive hours. lol.
> 
> hehe. Messing with you, but you have to agree with the logic.


I do listen to  my IEM around 8-10 hours almost daily actually.


----------



## Cornilius

Luke Skywalker said:


> Just to throw it out there… I tried the Technics and disliked them so much I returned them. Didn’t like the XM3’s at all either.
> 
> My favorites are the Devialet, Hiby WH2, Bose, and nuarl N6 Pro



What don't you like about the Technics VS the hiby WH2? Are your hibys the BA or dynamic version? Some reviews I'm seeing on the Technics sound like they might be bassier than I'd like. 

As far as health concerns... I've had Tinnitus for as long as I can remember. I don't think the earbuds will hurt if you aren't listening loud.


----------



## Luke Skywalker

Cornilius said:


> What don't you like about the Technics VS the hiby WH2? Are your hibys the BA or dynamic version? Some reviews I'm seeing on the Technics sound like they might be bassier than I'd like.
> 
> As far as health concerns... I've had Tinnitus for as long as I can remember. I don't think the earbuds will hurt if you aren't listening loud.


Sorry to hear about the tinnitus… I had the Technics for about a week and the right one stopped working. 

I have the dual BAs

My thing is I hate monkeying around with settings and EQ.  I spent a lot of time trying different EQ profiles for the Sony and it was such a pain in the a$$ 

I just want buds that I stick in my ears and they sound great


----------



## AudioBomb (Sep 27, 2021)

Luke Skywalker said:


> I don’t think you’re supposed to listen to in ear earphones for more than 3 or 4 hours on a stretch anyway. can cause Tinnitus


1 hour is my limit. I got Tinitus when I was young in a live concert that I had to stay glued to the speakers. Man, that was brave!


----------



## AudioBomb

voicemaster said:


> I do listen to  my IEM around 8-10 hours almost daily actually.


So basically you don't socialize.


----------



## dweaver

I am thinking some people are bored right now. When I see baiting and bickering in what is normally a very active channel discussing new products and TWS in general it usually because there is not much new to talk about...

In regards to Tommy C and I recommending the AZ70 this about the original posters commenta about sound preference. The AZ70 is not for everyone, but if you like a certain signature they might be right for you...

Skywalker mentioned just liking putting an TWS and it sounding great. This I understand whole heartedly I am not a fan of fussing with EQ's myself. I actually own the WF-1000XM3 as well and while I like it at times,the darker signature and subdued treble and detail is not exciting for a lot of the music I like. The AZ70 on the other hand suits that music better. Similarly there are time I want a more aggressive sound and the Galaxy Buds Pro work best.

But if had to live with just one of these TWS I think the AZ70 would suit me best.


----------



## CactusPete23

VICosPhi said:


> Got my Edifier Neobuds and the sound is good but not great. They seem a bit muffled to me, especially on phone calls. Expected a lot better treble since they have a Knowles BA driver. Mic is good though and ANC is as good as Sony XM4s in my opinion. Case is small and looks cool. Wished if they sounded less muffled.
> 
> Back to my Sennheiser MTW2 as I have yet to hear another TWS that is better sounding to my ears at least. The touch customizability makes these perfect.


I looked at the stock tips and saw that they were a lot narrower than the nozzles.  Switched to KZ Starline tips, and treble was much better; But the case would not close with those tips in Large.   So switched to a wider bore double flange set of tips,  that fit the case, and the sound opened up even more.  Sound was best with High ANC, and LDAC for me.  Low ANC and No ANC seemed to have a different equalization than the High ANC that sounded best.   Might want to try some wider bore tips?


----------



## chinmie

Luke Skywalker said:


> I don’t think you’re supposed to listen to in ear earphones for more than 3 or 4 hours on a stretch anyway. can cause Tinnitus



it depends on the volume level too. it's probably okay if we're listening to low level, or at least simipar to the ambient volume level of a quiet environment. 
i do however take a break every hour and remove IEMs out of my ears for a few minutes, just to let them "breathe" a little.


----------



## Tommy C

chinmie said:


> it depends on the volume level too. it's probably okay if we're listening to low level, or at least simipar to the ambient volume level of a quiet environment.
> i do however take a break every hour and remove IEMs out of my ears for a few minutes, just to let them "breathe" a little.



I use the Fiil CC2 when I need to let my ears rest and it works great.
They sound very good in low volume and their design is non-fatiguing and while I won't pay their full price but I got them around $50 and they awesome when you also need to be aware of your surrounding and TWS with ambient mode just won't do it.


----------



## cresny

chinmie said:


> it depends on the volume level too. it's probably okay if we're listening to low level, or at least simipar to the ambient volume level of a quiet environment.
> i do however take a break every hour and remove IEMs out of my ears for a few minutes, just to let them "breathe" a little.


Yup and only use IEMs with ANC when in noisy environments. I'm pretty sure my own tinnitus came from listening loud while biking around the city.


----------



## chinmie

Tommy C said:


> I use the Fiil CC2 when I need to let my ears rest and it works great.
> They sound very good in low volume and their design is non-fatiguing and while I won't pay their full price but I got them around $50 and they awesome when you also need to be aware of your surrounding and TWS with ambient mode just won't do it.



agree! not all people can use earbuds form factor comfortably, but for those who can, open earbuds definitely have benefits dan we can't quite get from IEMs, even with TWS that have ambient mode (it gets close in function, but still not exactly the same). 

if there's no distracting noises around me, i much prefer using my Vooplay, X12, Buds Live, Vivo buds, and Tronsmart Ace than my IEM TWSs. 

i also just got the Tronsmart Battle yesterday, I'll be writing a review on it after some testing. 



cresny said:


> Yup and only use IEMs with ANC when in noisy environments. I'm pretty sure my own tinnitus came from listening loud while biking around the city.



yes, even without listening to music, street noise and wind sound themselves can be brutal to our hearing, and most people are not aware of it.. i remember years ago after riding motorcycle for some hours, when i got home and took off my helmet i noticed ringing sound, the same sound we get from listening to loud sound for too long. 

after that time i always use earplugs when riding, and nowadays with ANC TWS, usually with no music or really low volume, if any. 

fun experiment to try: after using ANC TWS for some time (try with no music to hear the effect more), remove them slowly from the ears.. you can hear the amount of really low rumble noise that's filtered off seeping back in


----------



## Luke Skywalker

dweaver said:


> I am thinking some people are bored right now. When I see baiting and bickering in what is normally a very active channel discussing new products and TWS in general it usually because there is not much new to talk about...
> 
> In regards to Tommy C and I recommending the AZ70 this about the original posters commenta about sound preference. The AZ70 is not for everyone, but if you like a certain signature they might be right for you...
> 
> ...


Hope I didn't offend anyone with the comments on the AZ70...  I know a lot of people here like them and I actually know very little about this stuff.  I've benefited from the knowledge that the experts on here have shared.

It might also be good to mention the music I listen to: female vocals, classical and opera, instrumental guitar, pink floyd, 80s, blues... Not a lot of heavy bass


----------



## Gimmesomeaudio

Soundcore liberty 2 pro?


----------



## Tommy C

Gimmesomeaudio said:


> Soundcore liberty 2 pro?


The new Plus version or the old ones? 
I have never listened to the old version but I have the new version.  What did you want to know?


----------



## Aevum (Sep 27, 2021)

from what ive seen and reviews, the whole thing about the pro is LDAC support, in the rest its almost identical.

and the old version had an issue where the noise floor was a bit high so you would hear noise when raising the volume, some reported it and some said they never encountered it, so it seemed to be more of a irregular production issue then a general defect in design. i dont know if that issue creeped up in the pro.


----------



## Tommy C (Sep 27, 2021)

Aevum said:


> from what ive seen and reviews, the whole thing about the pro is LDAC support, in the rest its almost identical.
> 
> and the old version had an issue where the noise floor was a bit high so you would hear noise when raising the volume, some reported it and some said they never encountered it, so it seemed to be more of a irregular production issue then a general defect in design. i dont know if that issue creeped up in the pro.


The hiss or floor noise doesn’t exist in my unit. You now have LDAC support, ambient mode and HearID has another feature to tweak it even further but the rest is the same but sound, mostly in the highs according to one review is improved too.
I can’t compare the two but the new ones sound really good using the flat eq. With their Soundcore recommended eq they sound terrible.


----------



## Luke Skywalker

Can’t wait to get my B&O EQ and Klipsch’s


----------



## Sound Eq

hi everyone, been a while since my interest in tws, can I ask which is the best sounding tws based purely on sound quality, all other features are not that important to me, as much as the sound is


----------



## ImMcLovin (Sep 27, 2021)

Sound Eq said:


> hi everyone, been a while since my interest in tws, can I ask which is the best sounding tws based purely on sound quality, all other features are not that important to me, as much as the sound is


I was just at CanJam and found the Noble FoKus Pro to be among the best I've heard for a tws. It's not out yet, but should be out sometime in October. Unfortunately, I can't really give details on how it sounds since I tried so many IEMs the last couple days that it's hard to remember, but it is a sound quality focused tws. I'd look out for reviews for whenever it comes out


----------



## VICosPhi

CactusPete23 said:


> I looked at the stock tips and saw that they were a lot narrower than the nozzles.  Switched to KZ Starline tips, and treble was much better; But the case would not close with those tips in Large.   So switched to a wider bore double flange set of tips,  that fit the case, and the sound opened up even more.  Sound was best with High ANC, and LDAC for me.  Low ANC and No ANC seemed to have a different equalization than the High ANC that sounded best.   Might want to try some wider bore tips?


Thanks. Tried with Xelastec tips and these sound awesome with good treble extension. However, the bass is a bit bloated sounding to me. Nothing to this date matches the quality of MTW2. Going to sell my Neobuds now.


----------



## Luke Skywalker

ImMcLovin said:


> I was just at CanJam and found the Noble FoKus Pro to be among the best I've heard for a tws. It's not out yet, but should be out sometime in October. Unfortunately, I can't really give details on how it sounds since I tried so many IEMs the last couple days that it's hard to remember, but it is a sound quality focused tws. I'd look out for reviews for whenever it comes out


Nice! If they impressed someone with Elysiums and EE Legends I’ll def grab a pair


----------



## AudioBomb (Sep 27, 2021)

ImMcLovin said:


> I was just at CanJam and found the Noble FoKus Pro to be among the best I've heard for a tws. It's not out yet, but should be out sometime in October. Unfortunately, I can't really give details on how it sounds since I tried so many IEMs the last couple days that it's hard to remember, but it is a sound quality focused tws. I'd look out for reviews for whenever it comes out


Great to know, I was about to pull the triger on the Falcon Pro. Will wait a few weeks for the FoKus Pro.


----------



## C_Lindbergh

ImMcLovin said:


> I was just at CanJam and found the Noble FoKus Pro to be among the best I've heard for a tws. It's not out yet, but should be out sometime in October. Unfortunately, I can't really give details on how it sounds since I tried so many IEMs the last couple days that it's hard to remember, but it is a sound quality focused tws. I'd look out for reviews for whenever it comes out



Still no Ambient mode tho? :/


----------



## Devodonaldson

AudioBomb said:


> Great to know, I was about to pull the triger on the Falcon Pro. Will wait a few weeks for the FoKus Pro.


I have Falcon Pro. They are good but a little bright, not super musical,  but detailed for TWS. I prefer warmth of the Sony XM4. I tried the Fokus at Canjam as well and I want them but know I don't need them, lol. Bass is goes deep, mids are lush, treble is present but not overdone. A very musical TWS that puts it at the top of my list. The overall sound is very cohesive,  which I was missing from the Falcon Pro. The shell and faceplate look very nice as well.


----------



## clerkpalmer

Devodonaldson said:


> I have Falcon Pro. They are good but a little bright, not super musical,  but detailed for TWS. I prefer warmth of the Sony XM4. I tried the Fokus at Canjam as well and I want them but know I don't need them, lol. Bass is goes deep, mids are lush, treble is present but not overdone. A very musical TWS that puts it at the top of my list. The overall sound is very cohesive,  which I was missing from the Falcon Pro. The shell and faceplate look very nice as well.


Cool. I agree with your
 assessment of the falcon.  They are very sterile.  Looking forward to the fokus in light of your comments.


----------



## highlightshadow

Tommy C said:


> The hiss or floor noise doesn’t exist in my unit. You now have LDAC support, ambient mode and HearID has another feature to tweak it even further but the rest is the same but sound, mostly in the highs according to one review is improved too.
> I can’t compare the two but the new ones sound really good using the flat eq. With their Soundcore recommended eq they sound terrible.


Can agree 100% with you there ... very happy with them once EQ'd a little .... don't use Soundcore Sound preset ... it's too boomy ... but they're immensely fun earbuds to listen to and hold themselves in place super well with the wings.

I'd be intersted to know what other "with wings" earbuds are out there as i absolutely need wings for my earholes


----------



## Tommy C

highlightshadow said:


> Can agree 100% with you there ... very happy with them once EQ'd a little .... don't use Soundcore Sound preset ... it's too boomy ... but they're immensely fun earbuds to listen to and hold themselves in place super well with the wings.
> 
> I'd be intersted to know what other "with wings" earbuds are out there as i absolutely need wings for my earholes


I have the Fiil T1XS, they come with small wings and some other wings in the box to try.  They are small earbuds and fit my ears extremely well and sound great for what they are.


----------



## ricthaman

So I have a question for all the Gemini owners. Is there a way to manually disconnect the earbuds from the device they're connected to? They often connect to my laptop automatically when I get them out of the case, while my laptop is in my bag. So I need to pull out the laptop to disconnect them there, and then I can connect to the phone. Very annoying!

Anybody know a solution?

Cheers!


----------



## AudioBomb (Sep 28, 2021)

Tommy C said:


> I have the Fiil T1XS, they come with small wings and some other wings in the box to try.  They are small earbuds and fit my ears extremely well and sound great for what they are.


FiiL's are usually very good. I remember the FiiL Carat PRO's several years ago. Was one of the best on those times. And the full size version that sounded even better.


----------



## clerkpalmer

ricthaman said:


> So I have a question for all the Gemini owners. Is there a way to manually disconnect the earbuds from the device they're connected to? They often connect to my laptop automatically when I get them out of the case, while my laptop is in my bag. So I need to pull out the laptop to disconnect them there, and then I can connect to the phone. Very annoying!
> 
> Anybody know a solution?
> 
> Cheers!


Not to my knowledge unless you want to enable pairing mode on the buds themselves.


----------



## clerkpalmer

highlightshadow said:


> Can agree 100% with you there ... very happy with them once EQ'd a little .... don't use Soundcore Sound preset ... it's too boomy ... but they're immensely fun earbuds to listen to and hold themselves in place super well with the wings.
> 
> I'd be intersted to know what other "with wings" earbuds are out there as i absolutely need wings for my earholes


I had forgotten how fun these sounded as I've moved on from them.  I wish they had included ANC in the upgrade.  Not much to complain about at $129 with LDAC but I always want more.


----------



## highlightshadow

clerkpalmer said:


> I had forgotten how fun these sounded as I've moved on from them.  I wish they had included ANC in the upgrade.  Not much to complain about at $129 with LDAC but I always want more.


Yeah -- but just think .... they'll make another good value v3 ... but yeah -- current ones are FUN and i think that gets lots a lot in the audiophile world .... it's why i've kinda edged back away from some stuff and focussing on what makes music enjoyable ... just chilling and enjoying it


----------



## Tommy C

AudioBomb said:


> FiiL's are usually very good. I remember the FiiL Carat PRO's several years ago. Was one of the best on those times. And the full size version that sounded even better.


I honestly wasn’t expecting much from them but I was wrong. Very nice balanced sound. Detailed enough, pleasant on the go. The fit is one of the best for me which makes the whole experience very good. 
For what they are with the Fill+ app they are extremely good value.


----------



## scubaphish

ricthaman said:


> So I have a question for all the Gemini owners. Is there a way to manually disconnect the earbuds from the device they're connected to? They often connect to my laptop automatically when I get them out of the case, while my laptop is in my bag. So I need to pull out the laptop to disconnect them there, and then I can connect to the phone. Very annoying!
> 
> Anybody know a solution?
> 
> Cheers!


I’ve found the same wrt to laptop. If connected to my iphone or Watch, I can force a disconnect by tapping to connect to something else. With laptop however, I think I’ve had to disconnect from the laptop each time.


----------



## Luke Skywalker

Wow, these B&O EQs sound incredible...  

The tips that were on them in the box fit perfectly, which almost never happens for me.  I doubt I'll even bother to try any of the other tips.  I also love the volume control on the buds, although I wish they had the ability to go forward and back a track. 

I ordered these from B&O late Friday night and they arrived today with the standard/free shipping.


----------



## erockg

I'll be trying out these 1More ComfoBuds Zzzzzzzzzs tonight.  Here's what they look like next to my APP.


----------



## BigZ12

What tips are you using with the Devialet Gemini? (that also fit in the charging case)


----------



## scubaphish

BigZ12 said:


> What tips are you using with the Devialet Gemini? (that also fit in the charging case)


I was using the Final Type E TWS for a little while and those fit…size large, too.


----------



## Luke Skywalker

BigZ12 said:


> What tips are you using with the Devialet Gemini? (that also fit in the charging case)


The Acoustune AET08s fit but I get an annoying sound when I’m chewing food or running on a treadmill. otherwise they sound awesome


----------



## Luke Skywalker

scubaphish said:


> I was using the Final Type E TWS for a little while and those fit…size large, too.


Do you like those?  Maybe I should try… where did you get them?


----------



## assassin10000

erockg said:


> I'll be trying out these 1More ComfoBuds Zzzzzzzzzs tonight.  Here's what they look like next to my APP.


Whoa. Those look tiny. I like.


----------



## scubaphish (Sep 28, 2021)

Luke Skywalker said:


> Do you like those?  Maybe I should try… where did you get them?


I did, I think I only stopped using them because I think I got the wrong size, but I’ll try to remember why else I might have switched back. I should have gotten medium. mtmtaudio; took a couple of weeks, but legit. I have the clear ones because I bought for white PI7. I don’t know how different the different silicone are.

https://www.mtmtaudio.com/products/...tooth-earphone-2-pairs?variant=32559994765372

Edit: I recall they have a relatively long nozzle since they move on axis similar to Spinfit. As a result depending on how the Gemini sit in your ears, they can “bend” on that axis. Would happen when walking my dog. Was fine sitting or just listening in the house


----------



## dweaver

erockg said:


> I'll be trying out these 1More ComfoBuds Zzzzzzzzzs tonight.  Here's what they look like next to my APP.


Ooooo those really are tiny . Looking forward to impressions, fit plus sound . If they work for side sleeping and sound even just reasonably good for sound they might be worth biting on .


----------



## Tommy C

dweaver said:


> Ooooo those really are tiny . Looking forward to impressions, fit plus sound . If they work for side sleeping and sound even just reasonably good for sound they might be worth biting on .


If you need something small check out the Fiil T1XS the earbuds and case are relatively tiny. Bought mine for $27 USD from Amazon as they often have coupons for them. You can’t go wrong with them.


----------



## Luke Skywalker

dweaver said:


> Ooooo those really are tiny . Looking forward to impressions, fit plus sound . If they work for side sleeping and sound even just reasonably good for sound they might be worth biting on .


I‘d love some side sleeping buds too. I could fall asleep to thunderstorms on the BrainWave iOS app


----------



## chinmie

erockg said:


> I'll be trying out these 1More ComfoBuds Zzzzzzzzzs tonight.  Here's what they look like next to my APP.



does it have that vacuum effect and change the sound when pressed against the pillow? 

i have some small TWS in the past that are flush to my ears when sleeping, but the vacuum effect on them when pushed by the pillow sometimes not only changes the sound, but would choke/cut off the sound.. they're dynamic drivers though, maybe that's a factor. curious how this Comfo Z with BA would perform. 

currently for my "going to sleep" TWS, i would use my open earbud ones, as they're more comfortable, and i don't really need full isolation/cancelling to sleep.


----------



## assassin10000

chinmie said:


> does it have that vacuum effect and change the sound when pressed against the pillow?
> 
> i have some small TWS in the past that are flush to my ears when sleeping, but the vacuum effect on them when pushed by the pillow sometimes not only changes the sound, but would choke/cut off the sound.. they're dynamic drivers though, maybe that's a factor. curious how this Comfo Z with BA would perform.
> 
> currently for my "going to sleep" TWS, i would use my open earbud ones, as they're more comfortable, and i don't really need full isolation/cancelling to sleep.



You could probably use foam tips to alleviate that.


----------



## BigZ12

Luke Skywalker said:


> The Acoustune AET08s fit but I get an annoying sound when I’m chewing food or running on a treadmill. otherwise they sound awesome


The included tips in medium didn't give me a 100% seal/fit, and I felt the buds moved in my ear. If I try the original L, I get the annoying sound you describe.



scubaphish said:


> I was using the Final Type E TWS for a little while and those fit…size large, too.


I have the Final Type E large. Will try later.

Got the Geminis yesterday and haven't tested much yet. But when they're in place, they sound awesome! Best TWS I've heard. So open, clean with tight, quick bass.

Will try some tips today, but fear I might get in trouble finding something to give me a perfect fit. Maybe I have to try some foam with these.
Silicone make them either move in my ear (pushed out in a way), or make the annoying sound while moving the mouth, like Luke says.


----------



## nekonhime

Some news about the technics az60 and az40
Az60 with anc and ldac gonna be 199.99 and az40 gonna be 129.99 
https://www.engadget.com/technics-eah-az60-and-eah-az40-true-wireless-earbuds-140003867.html


----------



## ImMcLovin (Sep 29, 2021)

Luke Skywalker said:


> Nice! If they impressed someone with Elysiums and EE Legends I’ll def grab a pair


Just to add on a bit. This was my last audition after listening to many IEMs for 2 days, so my ears weren't in top shape when I got to these, but I liked it for a tws. I did order it, so I'll report back to this thread once I receive them


----------



## BigZ12

The Geminis sound great, but my God... the driver flex with almost all tips are AWFUL! How can you guys rate these on top of your list?
They are ok with foam, but the foams I have, limit sound quality compared to silicone and also the Symbio by Mandarine. The Symbio sound really great, but the driver flex with those are just atrocious... I'm actually afraid the driver will rip apart 

I've said it before, and I'll say it again... there's no such thing as a perfect product.
I wish my MW08S would sound like the Geminis, it would be close to perfect... but they really don't


----------



## ricthaman

BigZ12 said:


> The Geminis sound great, but my God... the driver flex with almost all tips are AWFUL!


I've noticed this too. However, I've noticed that driver flex can happen to any dynamic driver earphones. My Ibasso IT01 have it as well, and are still going strong after 1.5 years+. However, in case of the Gemini's I think the 'cascading decompression chambers' might have something to do with this as well. This begs the question; is it actually the driver, or perhaps this chamber thingy that we're hearing?


----------



## BigZ12

ricthaman said:


> I've noticed this too. However, I've noticed that driver flex can happen to any dynamic driver earphones. My Ibasso IT01 have it as well, and are still going strong after 1.5 years+. However, in case of the Gemini's I think the 'cascading decompression chambers' might have something to do with this as well. This begs the question; is it actually the driver, or perhaps this chamber thingy that we're hearing?


I guess this is very individual, and depending on the tip (size/material), but for most of the tips I've tested now... this is difficult to live with.

Tried to google "Devialet Gemini driver flex", and found some hits. 
So I guess it's nothing wrong with my set, since several people hear it too.

From Stereonet: https://www.stereonet.com/reviews/devialet-gemini-true-wireless-earbuds-review
"Upon initial insertion, there's a cringe-inducing driver flex noise, a sort of scrunching paper sound. It doesn't appear to cause any issues with sound quality, but one can't help but wonder about driver longevity if this is an ongoing issue."

I don't have this with just insertion, but everytime I chew/move my mouth... I hope I find a foam tip that sounds good, or I will sell these quite quick...


----------



## chinmie

assassin10000 said:


> You could probably use foam tips to alleviate that.



with regular IEMs, yes, usually going with foams would make the driver flex problem better, but in those particular TWSs it's either the problem persist, or in some of them it got better but i can't fit them inside the case anymore, so i ended up letting them go

so for the mean time for sleeping purpose it's open bud TWS for me, or at leasr until i try some all BA driver TWS to see if it works


----------



## scubaphish

ricthaman said:


> I've noticed this too. However, I've noticed that driver flex can happen to any dynamic driver earphones. My Ibasso IT01 have it as well, and are still going strong after 1.5 years+. However, in case of the Gemini's I think the 'cascading decompression chambers' might have something to do with this as well. This begs the question; is it actually the driver, or perhaps this chamber thingy that we're hearing?


I just assumed it was the decompression chamber, too


----------



## Bobbetybob

Looks like the Soundcore Liberty 3 Pro is coming soon and it sounds like it's got pretty much every single piece of TWS tech possible in it: LDAC support, ANC + transparency modes, multipoint, wireless charging, wear detection, wings for better fit, some kind of built in pressure relief and app support. Think I'll be keeping my eyes on these, hopefully there's no hiss this time around...


----------



## Mouseman

Bobbetybob said:


> Looks like the Soundcore Liberty 3 Pro is coming soon and it sounds like it's got pretty much every single piece of TWS tech possible in it: LDAC support, ANC + transparency modes, multipoint, wireless charging, wear detection, wings for better fit, some kind of built in pressure relief and app support. Think I'll be keeping my eyes on these, hopefully there's no hiss this time around...


They can take my money now! But I'm not sure why they needed to release the 2 Pros...


----------



## dw1narso

Bringing in high spec codec seems will be a trend soon...


----------



## Mouseman

More on the Soundcore 3 Pros: 
https://www.reddit.com/r/anker/comm.../?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3


----------



## C_Lindbergh

Wow finally something groundbreaking in the world of TWS!

"Multipoint Connection: Connect Liberty 3 Pro noise cancelling earbuds to 2 devices and switch between them effortlessly."


----------



## cresny

BigZ12 said:


> I guess this is very individual, and depending on the tip (size/material), but for most of the tips I've tested now... this is difficult to live with.
> 
> Tried to google "Devialet Gemini driver flex", and found some hits.
> So I guess it's nothing wrong with my set, since several people hear it too.
> ...


Can somebody explain to me how to identify what is a driver flex noise? With the Gemini, I have experienced little pops from EAM before I got the right fit.


----------



## DigDub

Sennheiser CX plus. Been wanting to try a Sennheiser and this model allows either side of the single earbud to be used which is important to me.


----------



## Tommy C

DigDub said:


> Sennheiser CX plus. Been wanting to try a Sennheiser and this model allows either side of the single earbud to be used which is important to me.



How’s the the fit? These buds don’t look like the most ergonomic and the edges look kind of sharp although technically they shouldn’t touch the ears but knowing my ears it might be an issue lol


----------



## jsmiller58

cresny said:


> Can somebody explain to me how to identify what is a driver flex noise? With the Gemini, I have experienced little pops from EAM before I got the right fit.


Driver flex, for me, manifests as a “crinkling” sound as I insert the IEM.  There are a few ways to lessen this - for example open your mouth wide as you insert the IEMs in your ears, or tug upwards on the outside of your ear as you insert the IEM…. It is all about avoiding inserting the IEM while there is a solid seal and instead keep the seal broken until the IEM is fully inserted - good seal is essential once the IEM is inserted, but problematic sometimes while you are inserting the IEM.


----------



## BigZ12 (Sep 29, 2021)

Ok. Regarding the Devialet Geminis...

It's not driver flex... Because there's no noise when chewing, running, jumping with any tips when noise cancellation is OFF.
ANC Low has less "driver flex'ish" noise than with ANC High.

I have almost no noise on the right side with any mode or tip, but with ANC ON, the left is crackling and "flex'ing" as h....

The only tip that's ok to use, is the Flexifit foam I got with my Tevis. (but they also crackles when running/jumping, left side)

But again, no noise whatsoever with any tip with ANC off.... (Edit: But the SQ is awful in Neutral, or Neutered as they should call it...  )

Please help?!?


----------



## DigDub

Tommy C said:


> How’s the the fit? These buds don’t look like the most ergonomic and the edges look kind of sharp although technically they shouldn’t touch the ears but knowing my ears it might be an issue lol


The fit is surprisingly comfortable despite its angular looks. No pain hotspots in my ears. They do stick out quite a bit so not for side sleepers.


----------



## dweaver

nekonhime said:


> Some news about the technics az60 and az40
> Az60 with anc and ldac gonna be 199.99 and az40 gonna be 129.99
> https://www.engadget.com/technics-eah-az60-and-eah-az40-true-wireless-earbuds-140003867.html


Looks like the AZ60 price was adjusted up to $229 from $199.

Going to be watching when these come to Canada. Very interested, hopefully they sound as good or better than the AZ70.

That new Soundcore also looks interesting, but the sound signature of the L2P while good is not quite as good as the AZ70 for me so if the L3P sounds the same not sure I want to go down that path.


----------



## jant71 (Sep 29, 2021)

The other Sony we saw in the FCC filings is now a reality...
https://www.gsmarena.com/sony_announces_whxb910n_headphones_and_wfc500_earbuds-news-51187.php
https://www-sony-jp.translate.goog/..._x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en-US&_x_tr_pto=nui,elem
Due out 10/8...







Next to the XB700 for size comparison. Again the complaint I often have. So nice for a small size but no real features that they seem overpriced. One mic, 5.0 with only SBC/AAC and no ambient or cheap version ANC and cheap looking case for $100. What year is it Sony??

and we got this one...
UM TWS30X



Due out starting 10/1. https://www-mixwave-co-jp.translate..._x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en-US&_x_tr_pto=nui,elem

Cultivating a pretty decent crop so far this fall with the AZ60, Denon ANC, FoKus, Final, new Jabra, Unique Melody etc.


----------



## Luke Skywalker

BigZ12 said:


> The included tips in medium didn't give me a 100% seal/fit, and I felt the buds moved in my ear. If I try the original L, I get the annoying sound you describe.
> 
> 
> I have the Final Type E large. Will try later.
> ...


I can’t wait to hear what you think about the final tips with the Geminis. They’re actually in my cart right now


----------



## BigZ12

Luke Skywalker said:


> I can’t wait to hear what you think about the final tips with the Geminis. They’re actually in my cart right now


If you have read my last posts, I guess your post is a little ironic? If not, please read my posts about the challenges the Geminis give me...
I can't use the Final tips due to the noise I get with ANC on, and especially silicone tips.

Otherwise, the sound quality is really awesome. I think almost all tips are good on the Geminis, sound wise that is...


----------



## Bobbetybob

Mouseman said:


> They can take my money now! But I'm not sure why they needed to release the 2 Pros...


They've done it with the Life Q20 over ears as well. Released a new version with USB-C, multi point and app support recently, even though the Q30 have been out for a year. 

I suppose for a company operating at the less premium end of the market it makes sense to reuse the external shell and a design you know works and upgrade the internals rather than release a "new" model every year that's pretty much just a tweak anyway.


----------



## erockg

Spent the night with the 1More ComfoBuds Z.  First off, I have one gripe.  You can only set the Nature sounds for up to 150 mins.  I'd rather it be 4-5 hours.  Outside of that they are TINY.  I've had the Bose, had the Amazfit Zenbuds.  Tried earplugs.  Used to use the Earin M-2s.  So, I'm not new to the tech and/or options.  I purchased the ComfoBuds Z for $82 after a coupon I found online.  Definitely the cheapest by far.  They are no frills.  They don't have buttons or touch controls.  You need to do everything within the app.  The app isn't that great but works.  The Bose sleep app is the best.  That said, the CBs have the smallest case.  MUCH smaller.  They aren't noticeable in your ears and didn't bother me all night.  I set the timer for 150 mins with the rain sounds.  They did block out my toddler who is usually found wedged between my wife and I all night.  I tracked my sleep with my Oura ring and got an 87 which is Optimal by Oura's standards.  So, the buds did help _me_.  I did hear them rub on my pillow as I'm a side-sleeper, but nothing that isn't normal when you wear buds to bed.  They didn't fall out.  The other cool thing about these is that you could use them for up to 2 1/2 hours to stream music from Apple Music, Spotify, whatever.  I didn't buy them for music, I bought them to mask all the sounds at night that keep me up, so the nature sounds were for me last night.  If I want to listen to music and rock, I have higher end buds for that.  I might try the CBs with nature sounds from an app or meditation music via Apple Music and see what happens (how long they last, connection, etc.).  The Bose and Amazfit only play the nature sound available from the manufacturer via their proprietary app.  The CBs were appealing to me because they can also play music from other apps - just in case I do want that option.  I'll try them again tonight and hope to get the same results as last night.


----------



## Luke Skywalker

BigZ12 said:


> If you have read my last posts, I guess your post is a little ironic? If not, please read my posts about the challenges the Geminis give me...
> I can't use the Final tips due to the noise I get with ANC on, and especially silicone tips.
> 
> Otherwise, the sound quality is really awesome. I think almost all tips are good on the Geminis, sound wise that is...


Oh sorry I missed that. Sorry they didn’t work for you.  Thanks for letting me know before I purchased


----------



## Luke Skywalker

My life is now complete… my Acoustune AET08a large tips fit on the B&O EQ and… THEY FIT IN THE CASE!!


----------



## Tommy C

dweaver said:


> Looks like the AZ60 price was adjusted up to $229 from $199.
> 
> Going to be watching when these come to Canada. Very interested, hopefully they sound as good or better than the AZ70.
> 
> That new Soundcore also looks interesting, but the sound signature of the L2P while good is not quite as good as the AZ70 for me so if the L3P sounds the same not sure I want to go down that path.



“Where the AZ70W was more audio focused, Technics says the two new options are designed for productivity and everyday life”.

^^^ to me that screams more of a V shape sound and not an audiophile tuning and probably better mic and and noise cancellation for calls.


----------



## BooleanBones

Luke Skywalker said:


> Oh sorry I missed that. Sorry they didn’t work for you.  Thanks for letting me know before I purchased


I think @scubaphish and possibly @erockg have the final tips and may have tried them on the Geminis?


----------



## scubaphish

BooleanBones said:


> I think @scubaphish and possibly @erockg have the final tips and may have tried them on the Geminis?


Yeah, they were comfortable and fit in case, but susceptible to earbud movement depending on how snugly the tail of bud fits; which lead to some noises I didn’t want to hear. Not paper crunching, but more like a small pop sometimes when I walked. Plus I got wrong size, too large for my ears.  So I switched back to stock.
Speaking of stock, I’m awaiting my “new” replacements from Devialet, from France apparently


----------



## SynaestheticA

Hey fam,

Long shot here: Several months ago I was getting ads for the tws buds that claimed to have a selction of models that went from 4 drivers to 6 to 8 to 12. 

The only way I can describe them is that they looked a lot like a top down view of a bicycle helmet. They weren't any particular brand. But I figure maybe some of you got the same ads. My history gets scrubbed every 3 months so I can't find them. They had a dedicated page and not an Amazon, although they could have been a crowd funding project.









_Artists Impersonation of TWS_


----------



## cresny

BigZ12 said:


> Ok. Regarding the Devialet Geminis...
> 
> It's not driver flex... Because there's no noise when chewing, running, jumping with any tips when noise cancellation is OFF.
> ANC Low has less "driver flex'ish" noise than with ANC High.
> ...


I've experienced that noise before. I can't be sure but I think it's related to the Pressure Balance Architecture feature: 


> PRESSURE BALANCE ARCHITECTURE​Devialet invented an innovative acoustic architecture that ensures ideal inner pressure, at all times. The result is an intimate listening experience with unspoiled sound.


There used to be a fit test included in the app, but it was very finicky and I guess they cut it because of that. But what you are describing seems extreme. I would contact customer care, which is very responsive. They should be able to help you and maybe offer a replacement if necessary.


----------



## BigZ12 (Sep 29, 2021)

cresny said:


> I've experienced that noise before. I can't be sure but I think it's related to the Pressure Balance Architecture feature:
> 
> There used to be a fit test included in the app, but it was very finicky and I guess they cut it because of that. But what you are describing seems extreme. I would contact customer care, which is very responsive. They should be able to help you and maybe offer a replacement if necessary.


Thanks for your answer.
Yes it's extreme, and very strange.
ANC Low works quite well, especially with the Flexifit. Almost no noise with chewing/moving etc.
But with silicone and ANC High, it's extremely bad, and FAR worse with the left bud. (edit)
So strange that there no noise what so ever with Neutral (ANC OFF). With any type of tip too (I've tried almost 20  )

I will go to the store, try one of their demos and maybe let them try mine (if they want, hygienics etc.. )

I also sent a message to Devialet support.

Thanks again.


----------



## Ceeluh7

helmutcheese said:


> Edifier NeoBuds Pro​
> LDAC to be added this month (apparently) , SBC/AAC LHDC support for now



I realize this is way way late to reply to this but... Who cares. I purchased these last week as soon as I heard LDAC was added. So far I have not at all been impressed with tws LDAC. I have to say out of the box I could not stand this set, the mids were non existent and the volume was very low.... Couldn't figure out why they sucked so bad. I let them burn in for about 4 hrs and still... They sucked. Compared to Cambridge MT, and the 1+, Lypertek Z7, Samsung GB Pro, Soundpeats H1, in fact of the Buds I own they were around 6th or 7th place in the SQ department. But..... I started messing around with tips. Let me say that the tips that come with the Neobuds pro are garbage and ridiculous that these are the final versionnof tips for this set. They are flimsy and let alot of the music squeak by and you hardly notice it because they do not penetrate at all and so it's hard to find a seal. That being said barely any tips on this planet fit inside of the case. I did find some though.. .. Don't quote me on this (I think) the Tozo Nc9 tips as they are almost flush with the nozzle but much much more firm tips to where you can feel a seal. After I did that I heard a big boost in volume and note weight, even clarity and resolution. Very surprised as I figured these would go back. Now they still don't touch the Lypertek Z7 but they are wonderful sounding tws iems, but you absolutely need LDAC enabled thru the update. I'm impressed


----------



## erockg

BooleanBones said:


> I think @scubaphish and possibly @erockg have the final tips and may have tried them on the Geminis?


I'm using Spinfits right now on my Gemini until my Gemini replacement tips get here this week.


----------



## dweaver

Tommy C said:


> “Where the AZ70W was more audio focused, Technics says the two new options are designed for productivity and everyday life”.
> 
> ^^^ to me that screams more of a V shape sound and not an audiophile tuning and probably better mic and and noise cancellation for calls.


You could be right. The one review I have seen for them suggested the AZ60 sounded more natural but that did not really elaborate on what that meant.

I would be OK if they had a bit harder hitting bass and treble thinking small v. Only time will tell.


----------



## cresny

BigZ12 said:


> Thanks for your answer.
> Yes it's extreme, and very strange.
> ANC Low works quite well, especially with the Flexifit. Almost no noise with chewing/moving etc.
> But with silicone and ANC High, it's extremely bad, and FAR worse with the left bud. (edit)
> ...


btw, it's been discussed here before, but you can pretty much get the ANC-like sound in neutral if you mess with the equalizer (pretty much an extreme V-shape setting by my experience). It may be interesting to see if you can reproduce the noises that way.


----------



## dj24

erockg said:


> Spent the night with the 1More ComfoBuds Z.  First off, I have one gripe.  You can only set the Nature sounds for up to 150 mins.  I'd rather it be 4-5 hours.  Outside of that they are TINY.  I've had the Bose, had the Amazfit Zenbuds.  Tried earplugs.  Used to use the Earin M-2s.  So, I'm not new to the tech and/or options.  I purchased the ComfoBuds Z for $82 after a coupon I found online.  Definitely the cheapest by far.  They are no frills.  They don't have buttons or touch controls.  You need to do everything within the app.  The app isn't that great but works.  The Bose sleep app is the best.  That said, the CBs have the smallest case.  MUCH smaller.  They aren't noticeable in your ears and didn't bother me all night.  I set the timer for 150 mins with the rain sounds.  They did block out my toddler who is usually found wedged between my wife and I all night.  I tracked my sleep with my Oura ring and got an 87 which is Optimal by Oura's standards.  So, the buds did help _me_.  I did hear them rub on my pillow as I'm a side-sleeper, but nothing that isn't normal when you wear buds to bed.  They didn't fall out.  The other cool thing about these is that you could use them for up to 2 1/2 hours to stream music from Apple Music, Spotify, whatever.  I didn't buy them for music, I bought them to mask all the sounds at night that keep me up, so the nature sounds were for me last night.  If I want to listen to music and rock, I have higher end buds for that.  I might try the CBs with nature sounds from an app or meditation music via Apple Music and see what happens (how long they last, connection, etc.).  The Bose and Amazfit only play the nature sound available from the manufacturer via their proprietary app.  The CBs were appealing to me because they can also play music from other apps - just in case I do want that option.  I'll try them again tonight and hope to get the same results as last night.


Really interested in the Oura ring.. PM'd you with a few questions since it's off topic.


----------



## erockg

erockg said:


> Spent the night with the 1More ComfoBuds Z.  First off, I have one gripe.  You can only set the Nature sounds for up to 150 mins.  I'd rather it be 4-5 hours.  Outside of that they are TINY.  I've had the Bose, had the Amazfit Zenbuds.  Tried earplugs.  Used to use the Earin M-2s.  So, I'm not new to the tech and/or options.  I purchased the ComfoBuds Z for $82 after a coupon I found online.  Definitely the cheapest by far.  They are no frills.  They don't have buttons or touch controls.  You need to do everything within the app.  The app isn't that great but works.  The Bose sleep app is the best.  That said, the CBs have the smallest case.  MUCH smaller.  They aren't noticeable in your ears and didn't bother me all night.  I set the timer for 150 mins with the rain sounds.  They did block out my toddler who is usually found wedged between my wife and I all night.  I tracked my sleep with my Oura ring and got an 87 which is Optimal by Oura's standards.  So, the buds did help _me_.  I did hear them rub on my pillow as I'm a side-sleeper, but nothing that isn't normal when you wear buds to bed.  They didn't fall out.  The other cool thing about these is that you could use them for up to 2 1/2 hours to stream music from Apple Music, Spotify, whatever.  I didn't buy them for music, I bought them to mask all the sounds at night that keep me up, so the nature sounds were for me last night.  If I want to listen to music and rock, I have higher end buds for that.  I might try the CBs with nature sounds from an app or meditation music via Apple Music and see what happens (how long they last, connection, etc.).  The Bose and Amazfit only play the nature sound available from the manufacturer via their proprietary app.  The CBs were appealing to me because they can also play music from other apps - just in case I do want that option.  I'll try them again tonight and hope to get the same results as last night.


Last night, tried them and streamed a mediation playlist from Apple Music.  Set Apple Music to turn off after 3 hours.  Worked like a charm.  Buds were dead by morning because they don't auto power off.  Either way, these work well with both the 1More app nature sounds or whatever music you decide to stream.  When I woke up, had another 87/Optimal score.  Good news.  So far so very good.


----------



## clerkpalmer (Sep 30, 2021)

Anxiously awaiting my FoKus - a bit worried about the lack of ANC and LDAC for such a high price so they better sound killer.  The EQs and Gemini prove you don't need LDAC or AptxHD to sound great.  Enjoying my PI7 and EQs immensely.  I cannot decide which I prefer but both are amazing.  Decided to forego the H95 even at $650 as I can't bring myself to part with the EQs in exchange.  Going for the new Deva Pro instead.  While off topic, HFM seems to be pushing Bluetooth hard this year and I can't wait to see what they can do with their new Blue Mini.  That is all for today.


----------



## SynaestheticA

SynaestheticA said:


> Hey fam,
> 
> Long shot here: Several months ago I was getting ads for the tws buds that claimed to have a selction of models that went from 4 drivers to 6 to 8 to 12.
> 
> ...


Found them. 

https://www.sonobo.co.uk/

Pretty solid description by me tbh 



The high end model has 18 drivers powering it. Will be interesting to see if 18 drivers = aural ecstacy.


----------



## Luke Skywalker

erockg said:


> Last night, tried them and streamed a mediation playlist from Apple Music.  Set Apple Music to turn off after 3 hours.  Worked like a charm.  Buds were dead by morning because they don't auto power off.  Either way, these work well with both the 1More app nature sounds or whatever music you decide to stream.  When I woke up, had another 87/Optimal score.  Good news.  So far so very good.


wow these sound great.  Good for side sleepers?  Are these the ones you have?

1MORE ComfoBudsZ Wireless Sleep Earbuds with White Noise Bluetooth Earphone with Noise Isolation, Balanced Armature, 5 Auto-Off Timers, Unnoticeable for Side Sleepers https://www.amazon.com/dp/B099RRM6S2/


----------



## Luke Skywalker

I’m just loving these B&Os. Wore them at the gym today and they stayed glued in my ears. Haven’t run with them yet.  Another thing that surprised me is the range… I can have my phone downstairs in the office and walk upstairs, still playing music like I’m next to it. Perhaps all Bluetooth 5.2 devices are like that though.


----------



## Darkestred

Luke Skywalker said:


> I’m just loving these B&Os. Wore them at the gym today and they stayed glued in my ears. Haven’t run with them yet.  Another thing that surprised me is the range… I can have my phone downstairs in the office and walk upstairs, still playing music like I’m next to it. Perhaps all Bluetooth 5.2 devices are like that though.


Do you like them more than the KEFs? I believe you are a big fan.


----------



## clerkpalmer

Luke Skywalker said:


> I’m just loving these B&Os. Wore them at the gym today and they stayed glued in my ears. Haven’t run with them yet.  Another thing that surprised me is the range… I can have my phone downstairs in the office and walk upstairs, still playing music like I’m next to it. Perhaps all Bluetooth 5.2 devices are like that though.


May have missed it but what tips are you using?


----------



## Tommy C (Sep 30, 2021)

SynaestheticA said:


> Found them.
> 
> https://www.sonobo.co.uk/
> 
> ...



Not trying to be a party pooper but these crowdfunding campaigns with all the usual buzz-words that sell you a pie in a sky product don’t get me excited, not to mention it’s not guaranteed that anything will be delivered at the end.
All these drivers sound pretty gimmicky to me too. So many things can go wrong when stuffing so many drivers into the buds and to add to this the TWS tech, and most likely no app. It’s a hard pass for me. I would look elsewhere at established companies with good track record when spending my money, even though it may not be much $$$ I’m just like that.


----------



## jsmiller58

Tommy C said:


> Not trying to be a party pooper but these crowdfunding campaigns with all the usual buzz-words that sell you a pie in a sky product don’t get me excited, not to mention it’s not guaranteed that anything will be delivered at the end.
> All these drivers sound pretty gimmicky to me too. So many things can go wrong when stuffing so many drivers into the buds and to add to this the TWS tech, and most likely no app. It’s a hard pass for me. I would look elsewhere at established companies with good track record when spending my money, even though it may not be much $$$ I’m just like that.


I hope these become reality, and that they sound and perform well.  I would be happy to buy the Elite version, and all the extras.  But…I have never had a satisfying experience with a crowdsourced product.  Pass, for now, but I hope they make it, and will seriously consider buying if they do!


----------



## SynaestheticA

@jsmiller58  & @Tommy C  Yea those are good considerations. The price point of these is pretty high and I don't really see how 4 + drivers are going to make it better. Although I'm sure some of the drivers are doing things other than sound (Gunsonics, voice call, etc). That being said I still like the look for some reason and have an itch to buy more TWS...The addiction continues. Cause I couldn't throw my money at this project I threw it at the Morph Kickstarter instead. At least they are established. I'll probably get both if Sonobo let me purchase post-funding period. There's just something about the design that I like..


----------



## erockg

Luke Skywalker said:


> wow these sound great.  Good for side sleepers?  Are these the ones you have?
> 
> 1MORE ComfoBudsZ Wireless Sleep Earbuds with White Noise Bluetooth Earphone with Noise Isolation, Balanced Armature, 5 Auto-Off Timers, Unnoticeable for Side Sleepers https://www.amazon.com/dp/B099RRM6S2/


Yup.  Those are them.  Working good for me and I’m a side sleeper.


----------



## highlightshadow

jsmiller58 said:


> I hope these become reality, and that they sound and perform well.  I would be happy to buy the Elite version, and all the extras.  But…I have never had a satisfying experience with a crowdsourced product.  Pass, for now, but I hope they make it, and will seriously consider buying if they do!


Yeah --- it's a high-risk thing --- i've backed 2 lots of "pro" earphones or other high-end tech --- they've all been either terribly under performing or not received a decent end-product.

They're just going with moar drivers is moar better and yeah -- look at all these music people who say it's amazing -- i'd be very skeptical


----------



## at24

I purchased B&O Beoplay HQs a few days ago but I'm very inclined towards returning them - the sound is fun and overall they perform well, but the volume is very low for me: I'm used to high volume (I know, I shouldn't) but even at max level they are lacking to me. Has anyone else the same issue? 

Can anyone recommend an IEM with a similar sound signature? I don't care for noise reduction at all also. Thanks!


----------



## aldinho878

Anyone heard the fender tour tws? Any impressions?


----------



## Tommy C

aldinho878 said:


> Anyone heard the fender tour tws? Any impressions?


All I know is that they are $200 and not the latest and greatest re tech. No impressions here as far as I know.


----------



## Skev

Jabras new line on pre-order from today folks. I've got the Elite 7 Active on order.

I liked the Elite 75t Active but the occasional left side drop out when turning my head annoyed me. Hoping the new ones are better as they both connect to the phone?


----------



## aldinho878

Between the beoplay EQ and the Gemini, Which has a smaller/lighter weight form factor?


----------



## dj24

Skev said:


> Jabras new line on pre-order from today folks. I've got the Elite 7 Active on order.
> 
> I liked the Elite 75t Active but the occasional left side drop out when turning my head annoyed me. Hoping the new ones are better as they both connect to the phone?


Never had that issue with mine...  Looking forward to your impressions.


----------



## Skev

dj24 said:


> Never had that issue with mine...  Looking forward to your impressions.


Yeah they were fine at home but had the issue when out running. Hopefully resolved now.


----------



## dweaver

So when is a bells and whistles feature not a bells and whistles feature...

When $187 is on the line...

When getting coffee this morning I hastily shoved my Galaxy Buds Pro into my pocket so I could fully hear the man taking my order. I then walk to the office and work for an hour and then remember to pull out my buds. One of them is missing!!!!

I frantically start retracing my steps looking on the ground and then I have a thought. Does the apps have a find my buds thing?? I open the app and wammo is shows my case and each ear bud. I select the left bud and click on directions and it opens up maps and directs me back to the exact spot the bud is located at. I walk in there is the bud sitting on a bench I sat down at to converse with someone.

$187 saved and the Galaxy Buds Pro just became my go to buds for going down town...

Grateful it was still there and more grateful the app saved me agonizing trying to find it...


----------



## pitch_black

erockg said:


> @clerkpalmer you're talking to two dudes who have them both  Or at least I think @BooleanBones still has both.  I love the EQs and the H95s for different reasons.  H95s are great at home to just focus and deal with zoom calls.  ANC blocks out my neighbors well enough too.  The EQs, I like to just slip in my pocket and go.  Small, light and pack some nice punch.  Bigger soundstage with the H95s, but the EQs are no slouches.  If you enjoy Bang & Olufsen, then you'll really like them.  Everything about them is gorgeous IMO.  Plus, I think you'll have that 30 day return policy when you purchase off their website.  It's a tough call, I do get it.  I know you love your PI7s, I truly wanted to as well, but B&O products are just gorgeous.  Excuse me while a take a sip of this Kool Aid over here...


Not everything from B&O is gold but with both the H95 and the EQ you don’t do anything wrong….. only if you got unlucky with a dead earpiece.


----------



## pitch_black

Luke Skywalker said:


> Wow... So would you say that the H95s are the best wireless cans out there?  Or at least the best ones with ANC?  The wife has the Bose QC35s but I want something truly supreme.  My current cans are Audeze LCD-2


The best wireless cans with ANC, but ANC is not their strong suit.


----------



## pitch_black

erockg said:


> I'd only get the Shure TW2 adapters if you're willing to add a better IEM from Shure on them. IMO the SE215s are decent but you can do better.  I have all three and they're all amazing.  Very different from one another as far as form factor.  Knowing you, you'll have them all eventually


Isn’t there a Aonic 4 True Wireless Gen2 out there also? As far as I know they’re based on the SE425 - but I could be wrong.


----------



## TK33

pitch_black said:


> Isn’t there a Aonic 4 True Wireless Gen2 out there also? As far as I know they’re based on the SE425 - but I could be wrong.


They are actually different IEMs.  Aonic 4 is a hybrid vs. dual BA in the SE425. I just bought the TW2 adapter by itself and skipped the SE215.


----------



## ricthaman

aldinho878 said:


> Between the beoplay EQ and the Gemini, Which has a smaller/lighter weight form factor?


The Gemini. By a landslide.


----------



## erockg

pitch_black said:


> Isn’t there a Aonic 4 True Wireless Gen2 out there also? As far as I know they’re based on the SE425 - but I could be wrong.


Check the Shure site.  I do know that the Aonic IEM and the SEs are different breeds.  I'm sure you can buy the bundle with the A4.


----------



## erockg

pitch_black said:


> Not everything from B&O is gold but with both the H95 and the EQ you don’t do anything wrong….. only if you got unlucky with a dead earpiece.


I use my EQs and H95 every day and I'm extremely happy with them.  They are my go-to headphones right now.


----------



## erockg

ricthaman said:


> The Gemini. By a landslide.


What he said.


----------



## clerkpalmer

pitch_black said:


> The best wireless cans with ANC, but ANC is not their strong suit.


So I don't need ANC. I really just want the absolute best Bluetooth cans money can buy. The DEVA are killer at any price for open backs.


----------



## pitch_black

erockg said:


> I use my EQs and H95 every day and I'm extremely happy with them.  They are my go-to headphones right now.


Me too….. well almost. At the moment I use only the H95 because the EQ is on his way to B&O (RMA)….. Yes the H95 sounds a lot better but it’s a bit inconvenient with the mask and the sunglasses….. I consider hitting the next B&O store and getting the black EQ and if the Sand EQ returns sell them….


----------



## pitch_black (Oct 2, 2021)

clerkpalmer said:


> So I don't need ANC. I really just want the absolute best Bluetooth cans money can buy. The DEVA are killer at any price for open backs.


Then I guess it’s maybe the Hifiman Andana BT (open, magnetostat) or the Beyerdynamic Amiron Wireless….. I didn’t hear them personally but only hear good things.

Personally and overall I think it’s the H95 because it’s almost the complete package, battery life is fantastic, SQ top notch (for a BT), it comes in an aluminum case (not for travel), with braided USB-C and Audio-cables, with an aluminum Airline Adapter…. the only thing you really need is a good transportation bag, like the ones from B&O itself or from Hardcraft.


----------



## erockg

pitch_black said:


> Me too….. well almost. At the moment I use only the H95 because the EQ is on his way to B&O (RMA)….. Yes the H95 sounds a lot better but it’s a bit inconvenient with the mask and the sunglasses….. I consider hitting the next B&O store and getting the black EQ and if the Sand EQ returns sell them….


That's what I did re: EQs.  Had an issue with the pair from B&O online and then picked up a pair from my local B&O store and have had no issues.


----------



## erockg

For those wondering, the new tips that Devialet is sending out for free are the same tips that some with the relaunch version of Gemini.  Bummer, but at least they were free!


----------



## Tommy C (Oct 1, 2021)

Skev said:


> Jabras new line on pre-order from today folks. I've got the Elite 7 Active on order.
> 
> I liked the Elite 75t Active but the occasional left side drop out when turning my head annoyed me. Hoping the new ones are better as they both connect to the phone?


You may want to contact their Customer Service.
Jabra's connection is rock solid and one of the best and the reason why I still use mine downtown when out and about.
All my Jabras never had any connectivity issues.


----------



## FYLegend

I decided to get the Buds2 as in Canada there's a free wireless charger deal at 170$ CAD. The Source has the deal in-store otherwise I've only seen it on Samsung.com (others are selling the Buds at this discount without the charger)

First sound impressions are fairly good. The sound seems warmer than the Buds+ with tamed highs, to the point I wish they had just a bit more bite to the treble and upper-mids. There isn't much difference in the bass depth but the midbass seems more emphasized and a tad boomy, but not too bloated.

Battery life is the biggest downgrade from the Buds+, as I left them in my ears overnight and they drained from 70% to 2% in the morning with just ANC on and no music. I think this still agrees with 5 hours of use but the ANC seems very inefficient and drains as much as playing back music. They do charge up very fast though and the case seems more efficient than the Buds+.

ANC is fairly good for indoor sounds, a step ahead of my SoundPeats T2 but not quite dead silent. It's great for indoor settings, in a car or a newer Skytrain, but the noises of the Mark I Skytrain are still rather noticeable, though definitely makes the hiss smoother.

Ambient Sound is much better than the Buds+. None of that wind-cancelling algorithm that causes the volume to pan around, and the volume seems to stay stable. It seems to pick up more lower frequencies than my actual listening. Wish the volume level had more increments as I find high is sometimes too loud while medium is sometimes a tad too low.

As for codec support, unfortunately they're still *SBC Bitpool 37* meaning they will sound _awful _on Windows devices unless you're able to get the AAC on the Windows 11 Beta (haven't seen any confirmation about Win 10 2H12 getting AAC, but there has been some discussion whether this planned feature has been shifted to be a Win 11 exclusive).


----------



## VICosPhi

Anyone had both MTW2 and Beoplay EQ? Need to know which one has more bass presence. I am very happy with MTW2 but would switch to EQ if they have equal or higher bass !


----------



## erockg

VICosPhi said:


> Anyone had both MTW2 and Beoplay EQ? Need to know which one has more bass presence. I am very happy with MTW2 but would switch to EQ if they have equal or higher bass !


IMO the EQs blow away the MTW2s now.  Not that the MTWs are bad by any means.  I've had both and love the EQs much much more.  I love the bass punch in the EQs and I listen to a lot of hard rock/metal.


----------



## TooFrank

erockg said:


> IMO the EQs blow away the MTW2s now.  Not that the MTWs are bad by any means.  I've had both and love the EQs much much more.  I love the bass punch in the EQs and I listen to a lot of hard rock/metal.


And - even though I have asked this before - the SQ is superior to the E8 3rd?


----------



## darveniza

erockg said:


> For those wondering, the new tips that Devialet is sending out for free are the same tips that some with the relaunch version of Gemini.  Bummer, but at least they were free!


how you get these tips???


----------



## clerkpalmer

pitch_black said:


> Then I guess it’s maybe the Hifiman Andana BT (open, magnetotat) or the Beyerdynamic Amiron Wireless….. I didn’t hear them personally but only hear good things.
> 
> Personally and overall I think it’s the H95 because it’s almost the complete package, battery life is fantastic, SQ top notch (for a BT), it comes in an aluminum case (not for travel), with braided USB-C and Audio-cables, with an aluminum Airline Adapter…. the only thing you really need is a good transportation bag, like the ones from B&O itself or from Hardcraft.


The Ananda BT is quite nice but I think the Deva is right there for 30 percent of the price. Haven’t heard the Amiron. You guys have me tempted. I missed the coupon deal but I’ll keep an eye out in classifieds. Thanks for the feedback.


----------



## erockg

TooFrank said:


> And - even though I have asked this before - the SQ is superior to the E8 3rd?


To be frank, I don't always scour and answer everyones questions.  Blame my toddler.  I'm cool with that.  That said, the answer is YES   I've had _all_ the Beoplay E8 models and I'm much happier with the EQs.  These are the nicest set of buds B&O has made.


----------



## erockg

darveniza said:


> how you get these tips???


I think I posted the link here somewhere.  Check my posts.  I'll try to find it.


----------



## erockg

darveniza said:


> how you get these tips???


BOOM!  https://www.devialet.com/en-us/true-wireless-earbuds/new-eartips-offer/?country=US


----------



## Frainen

Just received the Unique Melody TWS 30x. While they have a good sound signature (more balanced than the Sony WFXM4)
-They have a background noise when about to play sound from bluetooth, very annoying. (used on Iphone and n6ii, to check if it was due to the source)
-The charging case will not close well with tips such as Azla Crystal or even the short. 
-Priced like the sony and B&O, but the case feels cheap with no app for settings.
-No active noise cancellation but you can achieve a good seal

If they could fix the background noise, I would most likely prefer them over the Sony and B&O for music presentation alone.


----------



## pitch_black

erockg said:


> That's what I did re: EQs.  Had an issue with the pair from B&O online and then picked up a pair from my local B&O store and have had no issues.


What is holding me back right now is the fact that it's the same store, where the buggy and dying Sand EQ comes from (same charge/production?)

On the other hand there is a offer of the Devialet Gemini (~11% off) from an other local dealer at the moment.

So I‘m unsure what to do; wait for the repaired EQ, get a black EQ from the same pool or get the Gemini and later keep both….


----------



## C_Lindbergh

The B&O EQ are definitely interesting...but the price tag is just a bit much for my personal taste when it comes to TWS... :/ There's still the issue with long term battery life health and the BT technology isn't quite "there" yet .


----------



## HaliHarry

I got one pairs of B&O EQ but unfortunately they get pop/clip issue. My friend who bought the same time with me also get the same issue. It seems this production batch too bad. My friend can compromise with this problem to get the best sound quality tws but i cant. I gave back them and be waiting for my Technics AZ60


----------



## rhsauer

erockg said:


> @TK33 what kind of EQ settings are you using on those Shure TW2s?  Such a strange interface, still messing around a lot over here.  Then again, maybe you're not EQing...


I recently purchased the TW2s and attached a pair of Shure SE846s (which I really hadn't used since the beginning of my obsession with TWS).  I realize that this is, altogether, a very expensive solution (unless you happen to have a pair of 846s lying around), but it's in a class apart from any TWS I've used.  (My current favorite TWSs are the Nuratrue and the MW08s -- but the Shure's make both of those sound like -- well, TWSs.)

I haven't been able to do an A/B comparison on a plane or subway (yet), but the passive noise isolation of the Shures feels comparable to or better than most if not all of the ANC in any TWS I've tried (including the APPs and the WF-1000XM3s).  I'm also loving the transparency mode.  Phone calls, fit, and comfort all seem great.  They're also very responsive to the Shure EQ.  And it's really nice to be able to continue to amortize my earlier investment in the 846s.


----------



## scubaphish

pitch_black said:


> What is holding me back right now is the fact that it's the same store, where the buggy and dying Sand EQ comes from (same charge/production?)
> 
> On the other hand there is a offer of the Devialet Gemini (~11% off) from an other local dealer at the moment.
> 
> So I‘m unsure what to do; wait for the repaired EQ, get a black EQ from the same pool or get the Gemini and later keep both….


How long did they say to get replacement? If it were my impatient self, I’d end up getting a new set of EQ or get the Gemini in the meantime if not within a week or so (personally, I’m very partial to the Gemini)


----------



## TK33

rhsauer said:


> I recently purchased the TW2s and attached a pair of Shure SE846s (which I really hadn't used since the beginning of my obsession with TWS).  I realize that this is, altogether, a very expensive solution (unless you happen to have a pair of 846s lying around), but it's in a class apart from any TWS I've used.  (My current favorite TWSs are the Nuratrue and the MW08s -- but the Shure's make both of those sound like -- well, TWSs.)
> 
> I haven't been able to do an A/B comparison on a plane or subway (yet), but the passive noise isolation of the Shures feels comparable to or better than most if not all of the ANC in any TWS I've tried (including the APPs and the WF-1000XM3s).  I'm also loving the transparency mode.  Phone calls, fit, and comfort all seem great.  They're also very responsive to the Shure EQ.  And it's really nice to be able to continue to amortize my earlier investment in the 846s.


Agree. Still enjoying these very much. I had to go up in size for tips (back to using Spinfits) to get a better seal because it is a hair small for me and keeps getting pulled out.  My only gripe so far is the call quality for Zoom is not great (I did get some complaints that it was hard to hear or robotic).  I did a Zoom audio test and I can hear a lot more background noise vs. my PI7 or Galaxy Buds Live.  Based on the description in the settings tab of the app, it appears to only use one mic at a time for calls even though sound comes out of both sides (whichever side has better connection) so I am back to using my PI7s for Zoom calls (that is ok since I rarely use it for music at home now that I have the TW2). The TW2 is still fine for calls in a pinch though. Otherwise, I am still enjoying the SE846/TW2 combo


----------



## clerkpalmer

Having missed the coupon on the H95, Amazon has some black ones renewed for 650. What's everyone's experience with renewed? Looks like no manufacturer warranty.


----------



## mxdemian

If anyone cares about the call quality when they buy their IEMs - the Beoplay EQs are pretty terrible when there is ambient background noise. I was racking some weights in the gym while on a call, and I was told "it sounded like an apocalpyse." I tried at home while moving around some hangers, and constant complaints from the other side about how noisy it was. 

In comparison, the PI7s have the best call quality that I have seen in all the TWS options, with a similar price point and similar sound quality.


----------



## AudioBomb (Oct 2, 2021)

*NURAPHONE - 2 WEEKS LATER*

After over 2 weeks using the Nuraphone, this is one of the greatest headphones I've heard. The bass definition and impact is insane, so so tight, you feel it over all your body, it's like if you had a subwoofer in your ears, this is what I call REAL bass. Mids are crisp and clear, slightly elevated, a tuning that I always prefer. Highs are airy and detailed, imaging and separation are exceptional, sounds coming from all around your head, 360º, with a wide soundstage, a level of fidelity found on much more expensive headphones. I used to love the FOSTEX TH900 MK2, which have a similar sound signature, but the bass of the Nuraphone is much superior. In terms of pure sound quality, the FOSTEX might be a bit better, more refined and with even better separation, but if I had to chose one, I would choose the Nuraphone. No DAP, no cable, stunning sound quality and a bass that I have never heard anything like it. I love how vocals sound here, liquid gold, no coloration, very engaging and detailed. But it's the bass, the detail retrieval and 3D imaging that impresses me the most. For the price, of course.

With spectacular ANC and call quality, I couldn't be happier. Ambient mode is very efficient too.

Couple friends had the same reaction seen on Nura videos. "OMG...!!!", jumping all over and laughing. That was funny. This thing causes you emotions and physical reactions that are yet to be seen with other headphones. If the purpose is to have fun and make you feel happier, you can't go wrong with these. Some might not adapt  to the in-ear part of it, a full size headphone that goes deep into your ear canals (strange feeling), but luckily, I don't feel any strange intrusion or discomfort, I got used to it pretty quickly. My ear canals are large, I'm an L tips user, maybe this helps. I am also so accostumed to use IEMs, that I have no issues using an headphone that is also an IEM. For the ones that don't know, this is a dual driver headphone, the 40mm driver is just for bass and the in-ear driver just handles mids and highs. That's also why they have better separation than a single driver that does it all and better imaging. You can pinpoint instruments in any direction with precision. This has nothing to do with any BT headphone you've heard below 400€ and punches above its weight.

I hope Nura surprises me with an higher-end headphone, I will be all over it. For example, they could use 2-3 drivers for mids and highs, that would be awesome. On the other hand, I don't think this format, with in-ears inside the cups has been successful and they will probably implement a multi-driver system like JVC did in the JVC BEAT HA-SZ1000/2000.


----------



## jant71 (Oct 3, 2021)

Probably the first reviews/impressions...




Both reviews mention it but looks like Jabra said that multipoint will be added. The other issue that is not cool is only SBC and AAC. What are they JBL lol! The Elite 3 have aptX but the 7's won't. Oh well.


----------



## Tommy C

Who has experience with the Lypertek Pureplay Z7? I saw a few posts here about bad nozzle design that is falling apart but are they worth the hassle for the sound quality?


----------



## pitch_black (Oct 2, 2021)

mxdemian said:


> If anyone cares about the call quality when they buy their IEMs - the Beoplay EQs are pretty terrible when there is ambient background noise. I was racking some weights in the gym while on a call, and I was told "it sounded like an apocalpyse." I tried at home while moving around some hangers, and constant complaints from the other side about how noisy it was.
> 
> In comparison, the PI7s have the best call quality that I have seen in all the TWS options, with a similar price point and similar sound quality.


Personally, I didn't find it so dramatic, but I've always been using foam eartips since the late 90s (Etymotic ER4 vintage). Since a few years I use Comply on all my present and past IEMs. These seal passively so well that ANC is almost not necessary (except in our Zurich tram ). I also don't notice the pop/clip issue in day to day use - only with specific titles and EQ combinations. What bothered me however was the not precise manufacturing of the case and of course the dead left earbud.


----------



## pitch_black

scubaphish said:


> How long did they say to get replacement? If it were my impatient self, I’d end up getting a new set of EQ or get the Gemini in the meantime if not within a week or so (personally, I’m very partial to the Gemini)


They don't say anything. In these things I'm very impatient but with the H95 I have a very good alternative.... most likely I'll wait till I get the EQs back.


----------



## TooFrank

erockg said:


> To be frank, I don't always scour and answer everyones questions.  Blame my toddler.  I'm cool with that.  That said, the answer is YES  I've had _all_ the Beoplay E8 models and I'm much happier with the EQs.  These are the nicest set of buds B&O has made.


Thanks again, what to me was confusing, was that in the shop, they said the major difference was the anc…..not SQ
No more questions from me….I am still tempted to try….


----------



## darveniza

erockg said:


> BOOM!  https://www.devialet.com/en-us/true-wireless-earbuds/new-eartips-offer/?country=US


Thanks


----------



## dweaver

Tommy C said:


> On a separate note, I see that Visions have discounted the Audiofly AFT2 (black) to $68 and I recall you got them not so long ago so might be able to use the 60 Day Lowest Price Guarantee to match the current  price.


Got that savings today . Gift card though due to past 30 days. All good as I will use that for my Technics purchase when the new models arrive if something else doesn't tempt first lol.


----------



## friedrice2307

J_3000 said:


> This looks interesting!


Already ordered mine. Hopefully they are good. Some say it doesnt have enough features but I am using it for music and nothing else so lets see if its good


----------



## Tommy C

dweaver said:


> Got that savings today . Gift card though due to past 30 days. All good as I will use that for my Technics purchase when the new models arrive if something else doesn't tempt first lol.



I think I may go for the Senn CX400BT from Shoppers as they have the Optimum deal this weekend - ends Sunday.
Based on multiple review I think the sound signature is more aligned with my taste nowadays and although I'm still considering the Technics AZ70 and the Lypertek PurePlay Z7.  I don't really _need _a new set of TWS but I'm kind of itchy for something new lol


----------



## Caipirina

erockg said:


> Spent the night with the 1More ComfoBuds Z.  First off, I have one gripe.  You can only set the Nature sounds for up to 150 mins.  I'd rather it be 4-5 hours.  Outside of that they are TINY.  I've had the Bose, had the Amazfit Zenbuds.  Tried earplugs.  Used to use the Earin M-2s.  So, I'm not new to the tech and/or options.  I purchased the ComfoBuds Z for $82 after a coupon I found online.  Definitely the cheapest by far.  They are no frills.  They don't have buttons or touch controls.  You need to do everything within the app.  The app isn't that great but works.  The Bose sleep app is the best.  That said, the CBs have the smallest case.  MUCH smaller.  They aren't noticeable in your ears and didn't bother me all night.  I set the timer for 150 mins with the rain sounds.  They did block out my toddler who is usually found wedged between my wife and I all night.  I tracked my sleep with my Oura ring and got an 87 which is Optimal by Oura's standards.  So, the buds did help _me_.  I did hear them rub on my pillow as I'm a side-sleeper, but nothing that isn't normal when you wear buds to bed.  They didn't fall out.  The other cool thing about these is that you could use them for up to 2 1/2 hours to stream music from Apple Music, Spotify, whatever.  I didn't buy them for music, I bought them to mask all the sounds at night that keep me up, so the nature sounds were for me last night.  If I want to listen to music and rock, I have higher end buds for that.  I might try the CBs with nature sounds from an app or meditation music via Apple Music and see what happens (how long they last, connection, etc.).  The Bose and Amazfit only play the nature sound available from the manufacturer via their proprietary app.  The CBs were appealing to me because they can also play music from other apps - just in case I do want that option.  I'll try them again tonight and hope to get the same results as last night.


Do I also read that correctly from online description that they do not pass along phone calls? That is something I wanted in BT buds for a long time .. I hate when random phone calls have the power to interrupt my music listining ...   I still have the V1 Bose and was overall quite underwhelmed.


----------



## Caipirina

dweaver said:


> So when is a bells and whistles feature not a bells and whistles feature...
> 
> When $187 is on the line...
> 
> ...


I actually wonder HOW that works technically, since several cheaper buds now also claim to have that function . I doubt they are equpped with GPS chips .. so, my guess would be the app somehow records when / where the bud was last time connected with the phone?  For some cheaper buds I thought the 'find my' feature is just a 'play high pitched tone so I can locate you between those sofa cushins'


----------



## dweaver

Tommy C said:


> I think I may go for the Senn CX400BT from Shoppers as they have the Optimum deal this weekend - ends Sunday.
> Based on multiple review I think the sound signature is more aligned with my taste nowadays and although I'm still considering the Technics AZ70 and the Lypertek PurePlay Z7.  I don't really _need _a new set of TWS but I'm kind of itchy for something new lol


I saw that Shoppers price at $79 for the CX400BT and nearly bit. Everything read say sound wise the new CX model and the 400 essentially sound the same so aside from a bit less battery life the 400 is a better bet on a budget.

How does the optimum deal work?


----------



## dweaver

Caipirina said:


> I actually wonder HOW that works technically, since several cheaper buds now also claim to have that function . I doubt they are equpped with GPS chips .. so, my guess would be the app somehow records when / where the bud was last time connected with the phone?  For some cheaper buds I thought the 'find my' feature is just a 'play high pitched tone so I can locate you between those sofa cushins'


Not sure how it works but it saved me from losing $180 so I just grateful it did work.  I have a pair that makes a noise and it is way less useful.


----------



## Tommy C (Oct 3, 2021)

dweaver said:


> I saw that Shoppers price at $79 for the CX400BT and nearly bit. Everything read say sound wise the new CX model and the 400 essentially sound the same so aside from a bit less battery life the 400 is a better bet on a budget.
> 
> How does the optimum deal work?


Oh dang, $79 Canadians? It’s a steal as here in Ontario it’s $99 and you get about $25 worth of Optimum points back but if I could find them for $79 that’s even better.
From what I read I believe is the new CX have a bit more bass as they are now marketed with Bass Boost on the box and some reviewers like Scarbir noticed that and also mentioned that they are a bit less balanced and sound is less separated which I know I won’t really like so for less money I’m going with the CX400BT.


----------



## Ceeluh7

Tommy C said:


> Who has experience with the Lypertek Pureplay Z7? I saw a few posts here about bad nozzle design that is falling apart but are they worth the hassle for the sound quality?


I absolutely love them. I did not like the Z3 as much but the Z7 have amazing resolution throughout the entire spectrum... Very tight but deep bass and a wider Soundstage. Other than the fact that they stick out quite a bit I would say that these have no real gripes SQ wise. The Balanced Armature Drivers are really great with good tonality and extension as they react well to eq without a hint of distortion at any level. The Titanium driver does what good titanium drivers do... They stay deep, tight, and layered. I love the Z7's man. I own the Camb MT, also the 1+, the Z3's, the Neobuds Pro, the Samsung galaxy buds pro, the Soundpeats H1, among a handful other great SQ tws as well as have owned quite a number of others thought of as.... The best SQ.... They were all false grainy hype. The Z7's are a complete SQ package with great layering and control. IMO Lypertek knocked this out of the park and you hardly ever hear about them, however of the few reviews given they are all extremely positive and those you truly have to search for them. I listen to mostly iems but when I am just chilling with the Z7's.... I miss almost nothing. The only downside (keep in mind I really only care about SQ) is that these stick out a bit.


----------



## dweaver

Well after getting the $32 back in the AFT2 it reminded me I had not used them recently so gave them a whirl while in bed last night and this morning. These things are super comfy for my medium sized ears. I literally slept all night and have warn them all morning forgetting I even had them in my ears.

Sound wise these have a rich slightly warm signature that reminds me a lot of my old Sennheiser MTW headphone. They come with garbage tips and have a rather large case but aside from those issues and the fact the parent company appears to have gone out of business they are a damn good deal at $68CAD. They lack a bit of detail compared to my AZ70 and Galaxy Buds Pro or the Status Between Pro but not by alot and at less than half to third of the price they are good option for someone on a budget.

I really like how they work for volume up and down using a long press on left bud for volume down and long press on the right bud for volume up, with the typical track forward and backward double or triple tap. Using assistant is a bit tricky in that you have to stop your music and then long press a bud for it to work.


----------



## Aevum

btw, anyone tried the Koss TWS250I, i´ve only found one review but they put it over the moon.


----------



## FYLegend

Has anyone else noticed compression artifacts on the Buds2 or Buds Pro when using Scalable Codec? Occasionally I hear intermittent compression artifacts, which doesn't sound like low SBC bitpool but almost like the hi-hats go underwater while the bass becomes more boomy. Never really noticed this on the Buds+ but read some other reviews where users described "bit crush" and I guess it was harder to notice due to the more splashy treble on the Buds+. Switching to AAC seems fine but moving back to Scalable, the audio speeds up a little before resuming speed.


----------



## FYLegend

jant71 said:


> Probably the first reviews/impressions...
> 
> 
> 
> ...



yeah the problem is whether they will deliver or not.  They promised independent bud usage but ultimately cancelled it for the 75t. Their reasoning was along the lines of how everything they implement has to be convenient and seamless with their current protocol, but Huawei and VIVO have been able to get around similar issues. The chipset is more than capable of AptX but Jabra seems to ditch it for battery life or connectivity reasons.


----------



## Ceeluh7

FYLegend said:


> Has anyone else noticed compression artifacts on the Buds2 or Buds Pro when using Scalable Codec? Occasionally I hear intermittent compression artifacts, which doesn't sound like low SBC bitpool but almost like the hi-hats go underwater while the bass becomes more boomy. Never really noticed this on the Buds+ but read some other reviews where users described "bit crush" and I guess it was harder to notice due to the more splashy treble on the Buds+. Switching to AAC seems fine but moving back to Scalable, the audio speeds up a little before resuming speed.


I have not and I regularly use the Buds Pro.


----------



## dweaver

I use my Buds Pro with my S20 phone and have had no issues.


----------



## AudioBomb (Oct 3, 2021)

FYLegend said:


> Has anyone else noticed compression artifacts on the Buds2 or Buds Pro when using Scalable Codec? Occasionally I hear intermittent compression artifacts, which doesn't sound like low SBC bitpool but almost like the hi-hats go underwater while the bass becomes more boomy. Never really noticed this on the Buds+ but read some other reviews where users described "bit crush" and I guess it was harder to notice due to the more splashy treble on the Buds+. Switching to AAC seems fine but moving back to Scalable, the audio speeds up a little before resuming speed.


Nobody else needs to notice that if you notice it so clearly. It's obvious that the issue is there. Can be related to your smartphone, who knows...


----------



## Aevum

I guess someone is going to have to bite the bullet on the koss.


----------



## clerkpalmer

Aevum said:


> I guess someone is going to have to bite the bullet on the koss.


I vote you...


----------



## TK33 (Oct 4, 2021)

Jabra Elite 7 preorders are up now in the US. Not sure if someone posted this.  Will probably pick one up eventually.  Hoping they let you swap sides during calls (I like to use one side at a time and switch during really long calls), which only my Samsungs (I have 2 pairs of Galaxy Buds Live for calls only) seem to do seamlessly.

https://www.jabra.com/bluetooth-headsets/jabra-elite-7-pro##100-99172701-98

https://www.jabra.com/bluetooth-headsets/jabra-elite-7-active##100-99171702-98

Saw the pre-order on Best Buy as well.

EDIT: kind of scratching my head on this one...spec sheets that are floating around the internet seem to indicate no aptX on the Elite 7 Pro/Active but the $80 Elite 3 does have it? I have other TWS for music but hesitating on principle now. Looks like there are some rumors that multipoint may no longer be on the table either...will have to wait and see.


----------



## Branflakes

@dweaver @Ceeluh7 would you be able to confirm if sound lag is significant on YouTube web (browser version, not the app), when the Buds Pro are on the scalable codec? Even better if you can quantify. Curious as I'm starting to consider replacing my phone. Thanks!


----------



## Luke Skywalker

HaliHarry said:


> I got one pairs of B&O EQ but unfortunately they get pop/clip issue. My friend who bought the same time with me also get the same issue. It seems this production batch too bad. My friend can compromise with this problem to get the best sound quality tws but i cant. I gave back them and be waiting for my Technics AZ60


I'd send those back for a replacement my friend... I have the EQs and they've been flawless so far.


----------



## Luke Skywalker

erockg said:


> I'll be trying out these 1More ComfoBuds Zzzzzzzzzs tonight.  Here's what they look like next to my APP.


How do you like them?  Mine came yesterday and they're the first ones I've found that work for side sleeping!  Man are they tiny... I have an iOS app called Brainwave and I played thunderstorm sounds.  Not sure how long they played until the battery ran out


----------



## erockg

Caipirina said:


> Do I also read that correctly from online description that they do not pass along phone calls? That is something I wanted in BT buds for a long time .. I hate when random phone calls have the power to interrupt my music listining ...   I still have the V1 Bose and was overall quite underwhelmed.


I haven't noticed.  I'll try it and see.  I do know they do not have a mic and controls on the buds because they're so small.  So far, still working great for me.


----------



## erockg

Luke Skywalker said:


> How do you like them?  Mine came yesterday and they're the first ones I've found that work for side sleeping!  Man are they tiny... I have an iOS app called Brainwave and I played thunderstorm sounds.  Not sure how long they played until the battery ran out


I've used them every night since I received them.  They're definitely helping me.  Incredibly small.  What the link to that app?  I'd love to try it out.  I'm using Relax Melodies and the stock 1More app.


----------



## Aevum (Oct 4, 2021)

Pulled the trigger, lets see how they sound, UPS delivery estimate is next week.


----------



## AudioBomb

I would say, sell all that junk and buy a Nuraphone. LMAO!!!


----------



## dweaver

Branflakes said:


> @dweaver @Ceeluh7 would you be able to confirm if sound lag is significant on YouTube web (browser version, not the app), when the Buds Pro are on the scalable codec? Even better if you can quantify. Curious as I'm starting to consider replacing my phone. Thanks!


I don't see any lag on my S20 using the Samsung browser on YouTube with the Galaxy Buds Pro using the scalable codec.


----------



## darveniza

TK33 said:


> Jabra Elite 7 preorders are up now in the US. Not sure if someone posted this.  Will probably pick one up eventually.  Hoping they let you swap sides during calls (I like to use one side at a time and switch during really long calls), which only my Samsungs (I have 2 pairs of Galaxy Buds Live for calls only) seem to do seamlessly.
> 
> https://www.jabra.com/bluetooth-headsets/jabra-elite-7-pro##100-99172701-98
> 
> ...


These are multi point, so will stick to my 85T even tough you can only use right bud as stand alone


----------



## jant71

TK33 said:


> Jabra Elite 7 preorders are up now in the US. Not sure if someone posted this.  Will probably pick one up eventually.  Hoping they let you swap sides during calls (I like to use one side at a time and switch during really long calls), which only my Samsungs (I have 2 pairs of Galaxy Buds Live for calls only) seem to do seamlessly.
> 
> https://www.jabra.com/bluetooth-headsets/jabra-elite-7-pro##100-99172701-98
> 
> ...


Yep, hard to buy it if you want multipoint. Can't trust they will do it. Probably have to wait till they do it first then buy. They are getting worse with no MP, no aptX, the original battery was 11 hours and 42 w/o ANC and 9/35 with ANC but now we have the "up to" 8 and 30 so seems to be down a nice amount from what it first said.


----------



## Tommy C

Was hoping the new Jabra will have all the newest features and all but it seems like if you want semi-open design the 85t is the one to get. Pretty sure there will be a a newer model replacing the 85t in the next few months or so as it seems like the 7 pro is replacing the 75t.


----------



## TK33 (Oct 4, 2021)

jant71 said:


> Yep, hard to buy it if you want multipoint. Can't trust they will do it. Probably have to wait till they do it first then buy. They are getting worse with no MP, no aptX, the original battery was 11 hours and 42 w/o ANC and 9/35 with ANC but now we have the "up to" 8 and 30 so seems to be down a nice amount from what it first said.


Starting to feel like a kickstarter campaign...(half joking)...

In all seriousness though, I am a bit disappointed with this one.  Maybe it will be amazing but will wait for reviews on this one.

@Tommy C hope you are right regarding a newer model.


----------



## Ceeluh7

Branflakes said:


> @dweaver @Ceeluh7 would you be able to confirm if sound lag is significant on YouTube web (browser version, not the app), when the Buds Pro are on the scalable codec? Even better if you can quantify. Curious as I'm starting to consider replacing my phone


So I had a minute to try to help you out. The only way I could try this is on Duck Duck Go as the Chrome Browser just shoots me to the app. Thru DDG I noticed a slight lag and so I paused the video and played again and it synced up almost perfect, barely noticeable. So I paused again and played and it was slightly worse in lag. Well I did this game for a bit and every maybe 3rd pause/play I would sync perfect (tws standards). I would say to you that this is imo an issue with the browser. Other browsers may handle this better. I would try on my laptop but it is miles away at the moment. I realize I prob didn't help you at all.. Lol. Normally the pause/play game will help to sync things up pretty good and I personally never have an issue when using scalable codec.


----------



## LordToneeus

TK33 said:


> Jabra Elite 7 preorders are up now in the US. Not sure if someone posted this.  Will probably pick one up eventually.  Hoping they let you swap sides during calls (I like to use one side at a time and switch during really long calls), which only my Samsungs (I have 2 pairs of Galaxy Buds Live for calls only) seem to do seamlessly.
> 
> https://www.jabra.com/bluetooth-headsets/jabra-elite-7-pro##100-99172701-98
> 
> ...


Thanks for the "heads up".  Been waiting on pre-orders to open.  I had a 10% coupon that worked as well as $20 in reward certificates for Best Buy.  My Elite Active 75t's have just been so comfy and so stinking reliable.  I have high hopes for these.


----------



## helmutcheese

Anyone get the email about SoundCore ANC buds?

https://uk.soundcore.com/pages/new-...one=1&e_id_s=bb6eb54d5591403dd456d2e8839f2218


----------



## jant71

Tommy C said:


> Was hoping the new Jabra will have all the newest features and all but it seems like if you want semi-open design the 85t is the one to get. Pretty sure there will be a a newer model replacing the 85t in the next few months or so as it seems like the 7 pro is replacing the 75t.


Maybe just saving MP, aptX, and better battery etc. for that model.  The listings for FCC filings are for four models. The problem is the fourth one is for the Evolve 75 2 headphones. Nothing like an Elite 8 Pro coming this year most likely.


----------



## Tommy C

helmutcheese said:


> Anyone get the email about SoundCore ANC buds?
> 
> https://uk.soundcore.com/pages/new-...one=1&e_id_s=bb6eb54d5591403dd456d2e8839f2218


AFAIK it's the Liberty 3 pro which will have ANC and new smaller shell on top of other things.


----------



## helmutcheese

Ahh I seen that here thanks, same old bulky design  battery life no doubt.


----------



## krenzler

So, I've been thinking about that Shure TWS2 + IEM combo. These days most of my music enjoyment comes from iPhone + TWS so it kinda makes sense to invest a little higher. I currently own Airpods Pro and Senn MTW2. I would expect a clear upgrade from this investment (?). Will something like the SE535's be overkill for bluetooth use with Apple Music from the iPhone?


----------



## tinyman392

krenzler said:


> So, I've been thinking about that Shure TWS2 + IEM combo. These days most of my music enjoyment comes from iPhone + TWS so it kinda makes sense to invest a little higher. I currently own Airpods Pro and Senn MTW2. I would expect a clear upgrade from this investment (?). Will something like the SE535's be overkill for bluetooth use with Apple Music from the iPhone?


I used the Audeze Euclid with the UTWS3… not sure if it’s overkill, but it works well.


----------



## TK33

krenzler said:


> So, I've been thinking about that Shure TWS2 + IEM combo. These days most of my music enjoyment comes from iPhone + TWS so it kinda makes sense to invest a little higher. I currently own Airpods Pro and Senn MTW2. I would expect a clear upgrade from this investment (?). Will something like the SE535's be overkill for bluetooth use with Apple Music from the iPhone?


Some of us are using SE846 + TW2 so, for me personally, I do not think it is "overkill", but I guess "overkill" is relative and can mean different things to different people.


----------



## Tommy C

B&O EQ is $35 off on Amazon in case anyone is looking to buy.


----------



## Tommy C

TK33 said:


> Some of us are using SE846 + TW2 so, for me personally, I do not think it is "overkill", but I guess "overkill" is relative and can mean different things to different people.


Personally I somehow really dig the new Shure adapter. I just got the Sennheiser CX 400bt on sale so I’m kind of set for the next little while but looking to buy another set of TWS but keep going back to the Shure as I’m certain it will sound decent with the SE215 (although probably overpriced) but with better IEMs it will shine.


----------



## Aevum

helmutcheese said:


> Anyone get the email about SoundCore ANC buds?
> 
> https://uk.soundcore.com/pages/new-...one=1&e_id_s=bb6eb54d5591403dd456d2e8839f2218


Its been commented before, its the liberty pro 3.


----------



## helmutcheese

And it has been replied to before, Touché!  🥁


----------



## C_Lindbergh

Seems like an incredibly bad control scheme for a pair of 400 EUR earbuds... can't even control tracks and there's no customization in the app.


----------



## VICosPhi (Oct 4, 2021)

C_Lindbergh said:


> Seems like an incredibly bad control scheme for a pair of 400 EUR earbuds... can't even control tracks and there's no customization in the app.


Just ordered these based solely on positive feedback on sound quality from almost everyone on the internet. Last time this happened was for Sennheiser MTW2 and they did not disappoint. But MTW2 are a total package where as B&O EQs lack basic track controls and any touch customization so I will only keep these if the SQ is noticeably better than MTW2.


----------



## erockg

VICosPhi said:


> Just ordered these based solely on positive feedback on sound quality from almost everyone on the internet. Last time this happened was for Sennheiser MTW2 and they did not disappoint. But MTW2 are a total package where as B&O EQs lack basic track controls and any touch customization so I will only keep these if the sound HQ is noticeably better than MTW2.


I love mine.  Zero issues with controls, ANC and sound.  In my top three for TWS buds.  App works very well for me too.  I use my EQs every day for music and Zoom calls.  If you get the Amazon deal for $35+ off, it's a win IMO!


----------



## dweaver

Tommy C said:


> Personally I somehow really dig the new Shure adapter. I just got the Sennheiser CX 400bt on sale so I’m kind of set for the next little while but looking to buy another set of TWS but keep going back to the Shure as I’m certain it will sound decent with the SE215 (although probably overpriced) but with better IEMs it will shine.


Will be curious to hear your take on the CX400BT. I really don't need them but I am curious... LOL


----------



## Tommy C

dweaver said:


> Will be curious to hear your take on the CX400BT. I really don't need them but I am curious... LOL


For sure. Been super busy so they are still sitting in the box but probably in the next few days. 
I ended up getting it from Shoppers (with the Optimum promo) since I'm a sucker for bargains and it was a great price $80 CAD after tax.


----------



## VICosPhi

erockg said:


> I love mine.  Zero issues with controls, ANC and sound.  In my top three for TWS buds.  App works very well for me too.  I use my EQs every day for music and Zoom calls.  If you get the Amazon deal for $35+ off, it's a win IMO!


Awesome that these work well on Conf calls  I ordered through B&O website already so will miss on the Amazon discount sadly


----------



## highlightshadow

helmutcheese said:


> Anyone get the email about SoundCore ANC buds?
> 
> https://uk.soundcore.com/pages/new-...one=1&e_id_s=bb6eb54d5591403dd456d2e8839f2218


Yeah ... last night ... i only just bought the Liberty 2 Pro+ last week ... tempted to use the return policy on them and get the new ones since they likely gonna be same price and the 2's are gonna drop like a stone on the price


----------



## LouisArmstrong

Sony WF4 vs B&W PI7 vs  B&O latest (forgot its name), which one takes the cake in terms of sound quality, regardless of price?


----------



## Dobrescu George

We're already mid week, with one outage of our dear social media yesterday, so let's think about a product that's reliable and which we'll be using on a daily basis. 

Todays review is about UTWS3 from FiiO, this is an MMCX / 2-Pin adapter for IEMs, that can transform any IEM in a TWS headset, basically giving us all more reasons to have fun while out and about~~ 

I tried my best to review it, share my impressions and feelings about it, so if you're around and need some help with it, I'm always here to help! 

https://www.audiophile-heaven.com/2...-bluetooth-adapters-portabilitys-with-us.html


----------



## Aevum

mi Fiio UTW3 have a battery issue and Fiio refuse to fully charge, and FiiO is ignoring me becuase i live in spain and bought them off their asian ali express store. 


So their spanish service wont touch them and their aliexpress store wont touch them.


----------



## clerkpalmer

My left EQ is dead and won't take a charge. Any suggestions other than RMA?


----------



## clerkpalmer

LouisArmstrong said:


> Sony WF4 vs B&W PI7 vs  B&O latest (forgot its name), which one takes the cake in terms of sound quality, regardless of price?


Sony is 3rd for sure. EQ and PI7 are very close. Love them both. If forced to choose I'd probably take the EQ.


----------



## Aevum

i keep hearing that the EQ is awesome but had tecnical issues, connection, poping, stuff like that. 

Its like the Melomania touch, it would be a awesome earbud and has class leading SQ, but reliabity and QC is ass.


----------



## Ceeluh7

clerkpalmer said:


> My left EQ is dead and won't take a charge. Any suggestions other than RMA?


Did you try factory reset. Also cleaning with alcohol the terminals? It could be that you just have a faulty pair. Thankfully I haven't had these issues and I own both versions (mmcx/2pin) except one time... One side would not charge and I factory reset the device as well as cleaned... So... I don't know which one fixed the issue lol but it has been okay since.


----------



## Ceeluh7

Ceeluh7 said:


> Did you try factory reset. Also cleaning with alcohol the terminals? It could be that you just have a faulty pair. Thankfully I haven't had these issues and I own both versions (mmcx/2pin) except one time... One side would not charge and I factory reset the device as well as cleaned... So... I don't know which one fixed the issue lol but it has been okay since.


LOL... Sorry I replied to the wrong thread...


----------



## Tommy C

highlightshadow said:


> Yeah ... last night ... i only just bought the Liberty 2 Pro+ last week ... tempted to use the return policy on them and get the new ones since they likely gonna be same price and the 2's are gonna drop like a stone on the price



Same. I had the Liberty 2 Pro+ and packed them up last night. They sound great but what thing that bothered me is the shape. While not too bad around the house, walking around feels like they are moving a little bit even though I don't think they do as they were super comfortable but I would rather go with their new model out of curiosity.


----------



## Tommy C

Aevum said:


> i keep hearing that the EQ is awesome but had tecnical issues, connection, poping, stuff like that.
> 
> Its like the Melomania touch, it would be a awesome earbud and has class leading SQ, but reliabity and QC is ass.



I returned my CA MT as even with the firmware update there were still too many glitches and the sound was way too bassy for me and there is so much the eq was able to fix.


----------



## highlightshadow

Tommy C said:


> Same. I had the Liberty 2 Pro+ and packed them up last night. They sound great but what thing that bothered me is the shape. While not too bad around the house, walking around feels like they are moving a little bit even though I don't think they do as they were super comfortable but I would rather go with their new model out of curiosity.


I really find the fit great personally .... i struggle so much with any IEM's that don't have wings/fins so these rest nicely and hold the tips in my ears 
My main issue is spending so much on a set of headphones only for their successor to come out a few days later.... will be interested to see what the v3's look like .... tbh with LDAC i'm super happy with the sound of the 2's really .... just that knowledge that once the 3's come out i know the 2's will be discounted so heavily on Amazon


----------



## Tommy C

highlightshadow said:


> I really find the fit great personally .... i struggle so much with any IEM's that don't have wings/fins so these rest nicely and hold the tips in my ears
> My main issue is spending so much on a set of headphones only for their successor to come out a few days later.... will be interested to see what the v3's look like .... tbh with LDAC i'm super happy with the sound of the 2's really .... just that knowledge that once the 3's come out i know the 2's will be discounted so heavily on Amazon


Yes, the fit was excellent for me and super comfortable it’s more the shape that made it feel a little awkward. I bought them discounted from Amazon as they had $30 off offer which made the decision to let them go a bit more difficult.
The new Liberty 3 Pro will have ANC, multipoint and all the bells and whistles and they also redesigned the shell.

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/goi...e-we-there-yet.861024/page-2531#post-16587819


----------



## Darkestred

erockg said:


> I love mine.  Zero issues with controls, ANC and sound.  In my top three for TWS buds.  App works very well for me too.  I use my EQs every day for music and Zoom calls.  If you get the Amazon deal for $35+ off, it's a win IMO!



Hmm...this is slightly tempting.  If you have 5% prime amazon CC technically another ~15 bucks off.


----------



## clerkpalmer

Ceeluh7 said:


> Did you try factory reset. Also cleaning with alcohol the terminals? It could be that you just have a faulty pair. Thankfully I haven't had these issues and I own both versions (mmcx/2pin) except one time... One side would not charge and I factory reset the device as well as cleaned... So... I don't know which one fixed the issue lol but it has been okay since.


Thanks. Looks like mine are DOA. Slow boat to RMA as my return window closed last week.


----------



## erockg

Darkestred said:


> Hmm...this is slightly tempting.  If you have 5% prime amazon CC technically another ~15 bucks off.


Definitely worth a shot with Amazon’s great return policy.


----------



## erockg

clerkpalmer said:


> My left EQ is dead and won't take a charge. Any suggestions other than RMA?


B&O has a 2 year warranty.  Call them.  They’re very nice and helpful in my experience.


----------



## erockg

clerkpalmer said:


> Thanks. Looks like mine are DOA. Slow boat to RMA as my return window closed last week.


Yah.  I think they make you send them in for review before they ship a replacement.  Big bummer but they’ll come through.


----------



## erockg

Anyone pick up the new Sennheiser CX Plus yet?  Thoughts?  I’ve got a wild hair again.


----------



## clerkpalmer

erockg said:


> Yah.  I think they make you send them in for review before they ship a replacement.  Big bummer but they’ll come through.


So far they have been helpful but it has been time consuming.  2 calls and when I try to enter my S/N into the warranty portal, it is coming up as not recognized.  Separately, for a premium product, mailing in first should not be the default.  They should send the replacement first even with a CC charge hold.  Not saying that's the norm, but at $400 I expected a little more.  The idea that they are going to "inspect" a dead TWS earbud is sillyness.  These are disposable items for sure.


----------



## clerkpalmer

erockg said:


> Anyone pick up the new Sennheiser CX Plus yet?  Thoughts?  I’ve got a wild hair again.


Seems like a new MTW is probably around the corner.  Not that that should stop you or anything ...


----------



## clerkpalmer

Not sure how I feel about this little CYA:


"Please note that customers carry the risk related to transportation to the Service Center. For this reason, we recommend customers to send in the product in the original packaging."

Umm, so if UPS loses the package, I'm SOL?


----------



## jsmiller58

clerkpalmer said:


> Not sure how I feel about this little CYA:
> 
> 
> "Please note that customers carry the risk related to transportation to the Service Center. For this reason, we recommend customers to send in the product in the original packaging."
> ...


You should be able, for a nominal fee, to buy insurance on the package.  Usually a good idea.  Yes, adds to the cost, but also limits your downside risk.


----------



## clerkpalmer

jsmiller58 said:


> You should be able, for a nominal fee, to buy insurance on the package.  Usually a good idea.  Yes, adds to the cost, but also limits your downside risk.


You can't though because they send the RMA label.


----------



## scubaphish (Oct 5, 2021)

clerkpalmer said:


> So far they have been helpful but it has been time consuming.  2 calls and when I try to enter my S/N into the warranty portal, it is coming up as not recognized.  Separately, for a premium product, mailing in first should not be the default.  They should send the replacement first even with a CC charge hold.  Not saying that's the norm, but at $400 I expected a little more.  The idea that they are going to "inspect" a dead TWS earbud is sillyness.  These are disposable items for sure.


I agree and that’s what I thought with B&W, but must to my chagrin such was not the case and I had to send them to them first. I think Apple spoiled me with the way they do it for AirPods

Edit: and I had to pay for shipping back to B&W (the first time, at least)


----------



## TK33

scubaphish said:


> I agree and that’s what I thought with B&W, but must to my chagrin such was not the case and I had to send them to them first. I think Apple spoiled me with the way they do it for AirPods
> 
> Edit: and I had to pay for shipping back to B&W (the first time, at least)


Same. Have sent TWS in for repair to B&W, Samsung and Sennheiser as well as a few IEMs to Shure.  All have required me to send the TWS or IEM to them first.  That is why we all "need" multiple pairs (or what I tell myself anyway).  B&W and Sennheiser we're under warranty but still made me pay for shipping to them (Shure was out of warranty).  The second time around, B&W sent me a label when I asked nicely.


----------



## erockg

clerkpalmer said:


> So far they have been helpful but it has been time consuming.  2 calls and when I try to enter my S/N into the warranty portal, it is coming up as not recognized.  Separately, for a premium product, mailing in first should not be the default.  They should send the replacement first even with a CC charge hold.  Not saying that's the norm, but at $400 I expected a little more.  The idea that they are going to "inspect" a dead TWS earbud is sillyness.  These are disposable items for sure.


I don't disagree with you.  Jaybird made me wait 3 weeks after receiving for a return.  Awful.  Makes zero sense.


----------



## erockg

clerkpalmer said:


> Seems like a new MTW is probably around the corner.  Not that that should stop you or anything ...


HAHA!  I have a $50 gift card and then a 10% off coupon at Best Buy burning a hole in my pocket.  Sigh...


----------



## clerkpalmer

erockg said:


> I don't disagree with you.  Jaybird made me wait 3 weeks after receiving for a return.  Awful.  Makes zero sense.


This is why people love Apple.  Companies don't get it.  This stuff matters.  These buds are 40 days old.  Not 18 months.  How much risk do they take by sending you a new pair with a credit card hold and require you to return the defective ones within a week or something?  Zero yet from a consumer's perspective, this is the way to loyalty.


----------



## erockg

clerkpalmer said:


> This is why people love Apple.  Companies don't get it.  This stuff matters.  These buds are 40 days old.  Not 18 months.  How much risk do they take by sending you a new pair with a credit card hold and require you to return the defective ones within a week or something?  Zero yet from a consumer's perspective, this is the way to loyalty.


Oh, I'm an Apple junkie for sure.  No issues with any of my Apple gear.  Even after I spend hundreds on AppleCare +.  That said, B&O is not doing anywhere near as well as the Apple Empire.  So I do get it, but yes, they should refine their process absolutely.  I've had three different pairs of EQ.  First had the pop issue.  Second had a right bud charge issue.  Third seem to be going well so far.   SO FAR.  

BTW, got the CX Plus waiting for me to pick up.  Zero expectations.  Because I just needed another pair of buds.  Sigh...


----------



## Tommy C

erockg said:


> Anyone pick up the new Sennheiser CX Plus yet?  Thoughts?  I’ve got a wild hair again.


I’m able to demo them in the next few days and should be able to compare them to the CX 400BT that I just picked up the other day.


----------



## erockg

Tommy C said:


> I’m able to demo them in the next few days and should be able to compare them to the CX 400BT that I just picked up the other day.


I'll have mine later this afternoon.  Fingers crossed they're good!


----------



## jsmiller58

clerkpalmer said:


> This is why people love Apple.  Companies don't get it.  This stuff matters.  These buds are 40 days old.  Not 18 months.  How much risk do they take by sending you a new pair with a credit card hold and require you to return the defective ones within a week or something?  Zero yet from a consumer's perspective, this is the way to loyalty.


Apple makes great products, and I would agree that Apple has perfected many aspects of customer service!  But it comes at a price in $$ and in the closed nature of their product portfolio.  For example it is quite hard to get the most out of non-Apple products when paired with Apple ones (aptX / aptX HD / LDAC, for example).  But, once you are in their sphere they do treat you well.


----------



## Tommy C

erockg said:


> I'll have mine later this afternoon.  Fingers crossed they're good!





erockg said:


> I'll have mine later this afternoon.  Fingers crossed they're good!


If the Plus is like the regular CX they have more bass which also seems to be tighter, more narrow sound stage, elevated mids and they are warmer than the previous gen.


----------



## Tommy C (Oct 5, 2021)

jsmiller58 said:


> Apple makes great products, and I would agree that Apple has perfected many aspects of customer service!  But it comes at a price in $$ and in the closed nature of their product portfolio.  For example it is quite hard to get the most out of non-Apple products when paired with Apple ones (aptX / aptX HD / LDAC, for example).  But, once you are in their sphere they do treat you well.


Main reason I’m with Apple because their stuff last forever and for my business I have had phones and tablets that were working hard for years with no issues and constantly being updated which I can’t say the same about Android phones that I previously had. In the long run it’s cheaper for my to own iPhones but for audio I don’t need any of their products but may try them one day.


----------



## QBANIN (Oct 5, 2021)

Hi. I'm looking for sub $150 basshead-friendly (deep subbass lover) TWS IEM with ANC and APTX codec. Any recommendations?


----------



## jsmiller58

Tommy C said:


> Main reason I’m with Apple because their stuff last forever and for my business I have had phones and tablets that were working hard for years with no issues and constantly being updated which I can’t say the same about Android phones that I previously had. In the long run it’s cheaper for my to own iPhones but for audio I don’t need any of their products but may try them one day.


No doubt - I am typing this reply on a 4 year old iPad.  But my phone is a 4 year old Android LG, so…


----------



## Tommy C (Oct 5, 2021)

jsmiller58 said:


> No doubt - I am typing this reply on a 4 year old iPad.  But my phone is a 4 year old Android LG, so…


My biggest issue with Android is that I need security updates and bug fix updates as long as I own the phones and Android updates are scarce once the phone's reaching its “end of life” according to the manufacturers.  The Google pixel is pretty good at it but the rest not so much.


----------



## jsmiller58

Tommy C said:


> My biggest issue with Android is that I need security updates and bug fix updates as long as I own the phones and Android updates are scarce once the phone reaching its “end of life” according to the manufacturers.  The Google pixel is pretty good at it but the rest not so much.


Excellent point, and another good argument for Apple products.  Unfortunately I cannot get over Apple’s approach to what to me appears to be a “we will give you whatever we want as long as it is what we want to give you” approach.

To bring this back to audio, if Apple would support aptX/aptX HD at the least, and preferably LDAC, and commit to support future industry standards, I would be an Apple product kind of guy, but until then I just cannot completely commit to the more limited - but very convenient and high quality - Apple ecosystem.  But that is just me.


----------



## Skev

Going by the spec sheet on the new Jabra Elite 7 Active it only supports AAC & SBC. Thought we were promised AptX etc?


----------



## jant71 (Oct 5, 2021)

Skev said:


> Going by the spec sheet on the new Jabra Elite 7 Active it only supports AAC & SBC. Thought we were promised AptX etc?



Not promised. We expected due to the Elite 3 having it and, you know, obviously if the 3 has it the 7 will have it. Normal common sense that the lower model leaves out stuff so if it has aptX the 7's gotta have it right?

Speaking of, I have one of these to try out...


----------



## C_Lindbergh (Oct 5, 2021)

Tommy C said:


> My biggest issue with Android is that I need security updates and bug fix updates as long as I own the phones and Android updates are scarce once the phone reaching its “end of life” according to the manufacturers.  The Google pixel is pretty good at it but the rest not so much.



Get a Samsung Galaxy or Google pixel phone, and you'll get update both fast and for a really long time. These days Samsung are even faster than Google at security updates!

I think they both offer around 4 years of security updates, and 2-3 OS updates.

They both got Aptx and LDAC, but no Aptx adaptive I'm afraid.


----------



## erockg

Tommy C said:


> My biggest issue with Android is that I need security updates and bug fix updates as long as I own the phones and Android updates are scarce once the phone's reaching its “end of life” according to the manufacturers.  The Google pixel is pretty good at it but the rest not so much.


Plus they tend to cannibalize their OS depending on the phone you get.  I tried, always go back to iPhone and tend to upgrade every year.  

Got the Sennheiser CX Plus in hand.  I'm _pleasantly_ surprised.  From what I remember after having the MTW and MTW2, these seem smaller - both the buds and the case.  Bass definitely has more punch.  ANC was surprising here at home.  I thought it was going to be completely weak, but not so.  They're better than the Klipsch T5 II ANC, not that that's saying much.  This is interesting for sure...


----------



## Tommy C

erockg said:


> Plus they tend to cannibalize their OS depending on the phone you get.  I tried, always go back to iPhone and tend to upgrade every year.
> 
> Got the Sennheiser CX Plus in hand.  I'm _pleasantly_ surprised.  From what I remember after having the MTW and MTW2, these seem smaller - both the buds and the case.  Bass definitely has more punch.  ANC was surprising here at home.  I thought it was going to be completely weak, but not so.  They're better than the Klipsch T5 II ANC, not that that's saying much.  This is interesting for sure...



The CX and CX Plus buds are a bit thinner compared to the CX 400BT, but not by much. The case size wise is the same but definitely smaller than the MTW2.


----------



## erockg

Tommy C said:


> The CX and CX Plus buds are a bit thinner compared to the CX 400BT, but not by much. The case size wise is the same but definitely smaller than the MTW2.


That's what I've read.  I'm diggin' them.  The MTW used to hurt my ears after a while because the top half of the bud circumference was too big for the edge of my ears.  The CX Plus do not have that issue.


----------



## DigDub (Oct 6, 2021)

I've been using the CX plus for a few days now. I think it's a good alternative to the Sony wf-1000xm4 if you don't want to pay more for the Sony. Full controls on the buds which can be customised in the app. They seal very well with the default tips, so I don't turn on the ANC often. I EQ them in the app to lower the mid bass and raise the treble a bit, which gives more sub bass and results in an overall clearer sound.


----------



## Tommy C (Oct 6, 2021)

I’m a bit confused with the CX lineup. I’m reading that the CX sound different than the CX 400BT but the the CX is also different than the CX in terms of sound.
I dunno, was under the impression that the CX Plus is simply a CX with ambient and ANC.
Reference: https://majorhifi.com/sennheiser-cx-cx-plus-momentum-2/


----------



## Skev

jant71 said:


> Not promised. We expected due to the Elite 3 having it and, you know, obviously if the 3 has it the 7 will have it. Normal common sense that the lower model leaves out stuff so if it has aptX the 7's gotta have it right?
> 
> Speaking of, I have one of these to try out...


Yeah true! You would have thought that would be the case anyway.

Nice, let us know how you get on with them. My 7 Actives are on pre-order since the 1st, hopefully see them this month.


----------



## cresny

This looks interesting, NAR very Devialet-ish. With talk of an MTW3 amid recently changing price points, I wonder how much the recent sale of Sennheiser's consumer division has changed things there.
https://www.engadget.com/grell-audio-tws-1-earbuds-annoucement-040050084.html


----------



## jant71

Skev said:


> Yeah true! You would have thought that would be the case anyway.
> 
> Nice, let us know how you get on with them. My 7 Actives are on pre-order since the 1st, hopefully see them this month.


Like the mint but with no aptX and they turned out to be touch control and the battery difference only one hour I went with the 3. I actual use a Cowon DAP as much as any device for music/podcast listening so it is just aptX or SBC.

I actually really like them. They don't yap or beep a lot like some. Only subtle tones for ambient on/off. They did nail there new shape and fit even for button pressing since they don't push in when you press.

Fit is real easy and comfy and the isolation is pretty good. That will vary for people but should be above average or better for most. So the ambient is quite good. The mics are good and pull in the voice pretty well. I would say they are clearer than many in the price range but maybe a smidge less clean ambient than the Nuarl but pulls in voices a bit more. Clearer than the JVC Marshmallow ambient but it pulls in voices less than those. 

I like the LED scheme: red through green for battery and blue for pairing. It does flash the battery level when you pull them out so green if high and orange, yellow, or red as then run out. You know before you put them in how the buds are and no need to hear a battery voice prompt.

They have my preferred play/pause one press on the right and ambient one press on the left. One bud use does move play/pause to the left side so they are not "dumb" like many.

Sound is really good no complaints but no real comparisons yet. More than once I have heard they are as good as any of the previous models and sounds legit to me though I haven't had a Jabra before but with aptX and better tips I can see it. Pretty realistic sounding and natural esp. bass notes and cymbals. I use my Bluedio Hi oval tips on them which are oval and a much wider bore. I'd say go wider bore for a bigger more open sound. Yet, the stock tips don't sound bad just not as good as possible. They sound nicely separated and less compressed and solid on the extension for both lows and highs. Good balance and some say they are bassy but perhaps since the stock tips tend to be a bit wide it is too much seal. I add bass and agree with the seeming majority that say they toned down the bass some. Not that I have had other Jabra but they just are not that bassy. They do have a decent amount and it is rich and has a little thump to it. Only if you get maximum seal and get all that is possible from them will they become truly bass heavy. 

They are probably my second smallest buds. Bigger than the JVC Gumy mini and similar bud and case size as my Audio-Technica CKR70TW. Case is small and solid and has the hinge that holds the lid open which is nice. The issue is that only shorter tips or tips with an inset core will fit. So choices for tips will be limited. The short bore on the buds is also small so many regular size tips will not stay on or might fall off in your ear.


----------



## clerkpalmer (Oct 6, 2021)

Interesting:

https://grellaudio.com/

Edit- you beat me to it cresny. Pre-order in.


----------



## clerkpalmer

cresny said:


> This looks interesting, NAR very Devialet-ish. With talk of an MTW3 amid recently changing price points, I wonder how much the recent sale of Sennheiser's consumer division has changed things there.
> https://www.engadget.com/grell-audio-tws-1-earbuds-annoucement-040050084.html


The article suggests the drop version comes with special wingtips. Can't find them on drop yet. Trying to figure out if that version is better.


----------



## clerkpalmer

clerkpalmer said:


> The article suggests the drop version comes with special wingtips. Can't find them on drop yet. Trying to figure out if that version is better.


Answering my own question, here is the scoop on direct versus Drop:

Sorry for not being clear on that, the drop version has additional wingtips that allow you to further adjust the fit. The standard grell version has comply foam eartips in two sizes and three different sized silicone eartips. The drop version has that along with two different additional wingtips for added fit adjustment.

As much as I don't like dealing with Drop, they seem to be the better choice.  What an odd decision to offer more to Drop versus direct.  Befuddling.


----------



## jant71 (Oct 6, 2021)

clerkpalmer said:


> The article suggests the drop version comes with special wingtips. Can't find them on drop yet. Trying to figure out if that version is better.


I was gonna say that while they may sound good I am not sure they are for me with the size and not very active friendly and worried about wind noise. Typical first design problems. Something that I might get fed up with regardless of the sound. Good luck on the pre-order. Hope they turn out solid. 

Another one to add to this falls crop of new and interesting stuff. Better than I thought it would be with LE on the horizon.


----------



## Tommy C

from their website, the new Grell TWS look HUGE...


----------



## clerkpalmer

Tommy C said:


> from their website, the new Grell TWS look HUGE...


perhaps that is just a really small woman?


----------



## profusion

Can someone recommend me TWS for ~70$?


----------



## Tommy C

profusion said:


> Can someone recommend me TWS for ~70$?


Fiil T1XS is my favorite TWS at the moment. 
It has a nice app with eq and the buds are small and the case is tiny.
When goes on sale you can get it for much less than $70.


----------



## VICosPhi

So I got B&O EQs and here is my take as compared to MTW2:

- The buds are on the larger side and thus, do not securely insert in the ear. MTW2s give me a better fit.
- I think the ANC is really good on these, but because of the larger diameter of the buds, the seal is not very good and thus ANC performance suffers.
- Audio quality is really really good and the hype is real.
- Mids on these buds are the best I have heard, even better than MTW2
- Sub bass is present as well but mid bass slightly lacking behind MTW2
- Treble sparkle is there but not by default. You have to adjust the equalizer to bring out the crisp treble.
- Battery life is about 6 hours which is much better than 4 hours I get on MTW2
- Call quality is acceptable but nothing to write home about. Microphone quality is alright. Speaker quality(as in hearing others on these buds is REALLY good). MTW2 microphones have more amplification and sound better than these for call quality.
- Case is not too big and charges wirelessly which is awesome. However case can be dinged/scratched easily.

Now the issues I found with these buds:
- When I use large tips, the buds stop playing music as if there is some interference between proximity sensor and the large tips. Adjusting the buds in ear causes music to start playing intermittently then stop again!
- I get hissing sound with ANC ON, more so in the left bud. Tested these in the plane and it was not a good experience. MTW2 were a lot quiter with no hissing sound which I think has to do with a better seal. Firmware is updated but sill have this issue.
- Touch controls are not very accurate and there is no sensitivity slider in app settings. I have to often find the proper spot to double tap
- Occassionally, the buds just stop playing music and I need to take them out of my ears, put it in case and then they work again. Tried factory reset with no luck.

I will test these more for a week and decide whether to keep or return to my MTW2 which have been rock solid with zero issues at the expense of battery life and much worse mids as compared to EQs


----------



## Tommy C

clerkpalmer said:


> perhaps that is just a really small woman?


They stick out a lot. I can already tell wind noise will be an issue for some and depends on the fit, they probably won't be a good choice for working out.
Perhaps this is why the Drop version will come with wings.
I'm somewhat curious but a) don't like to purchase a first gen of a product as they are almost always plagued with bugs, and b) rather not go through Drop.


----------



## clerkpalmer

Tommy C said:


> They stick out a lot. I can already tell wind noise will be an issue for some and depends on the fit, they probably won't be a good choice for working out.
> Perhaps this is why the Drop version will come with wings.
> I'm somewhat curious but a) don't like to purchase a first gen of a product as they are almost always plagued with bugs, and b) rather not go through Drop.


One argument to buy direct would be the return policy where Drop won't have one.  But I 100% know based on looking at them that I'll need the wings.  Also, shipping dates seem suspicious.  They said the Drop campaign won't go live until Drop has them in stock to ship so I think I'm just gonna wait this one out.  Targeting mid-November but I got the sense that may be optimistic.


----------



## jant71

clerkpalmer said:


> One argument to buy direct would be the return policy where Drop won't have one.  But I 100% know based on looking at them that I'll need the wings.  Also, shipping dates seem suspicious.  They said the Drop campaign won't go live until Drop has them in stock to ship so I think I'm just gonna wait this one out.  Targeting mid-November but I got the sense that may be optimistic.


Another reason to wait out is actually for the sound. You have the name but earphones and esp. TWS earphones are a different story than full size. Not sure why his name translates unless he did a great earphone that I missed. Plus the sound stuff using buzz words and mostly talking about SoundID and "the way the artist intended" in not telling you about the speaker inside and why it will be good.

They sound marketed but not much evidence they will be amazing or anything. I am not convinced from reading these will beat the N6 Pro 2 for sound. They might even fall short.

They are only $200 which is not bad but, to me, they are a wait and see type.


----------



## FYLegend

AudioBomb said:


> Nobody else needs to notice that if you notice it so clearly. It's obvious that the issue is there. Can be related to your smartphone, who knows...


Unfortunately, too many issues go unnoticed because a *majority* of users and major reviewers do not notice them. I don't discount that there are defects or other factors involved but often when these issues are encountered there's often reports of getting replacements with the same thing Samsung support is always like "do a factory reset" or "get a replacement" instead of troubleshooting the results.


Ceeluh7 said:


> I have not and I regularly use the Buds Pro.


What device are you on? Maybe I should have been more specific in asking about the Buds2 but it seems not many users on this thread have them.


dweaver said:


> I use my Buds Pro with my S20 phone and have had no issues.


Could well be that the Note 9 is "too old" to handle higher bandwidths of the newer Buds. Reminds me of when the Sony MDR-1000X had LDAC connectivity issues with several Xperia devices and bugfix was only added to the X and XZ series while my Xperia Z5 was discontinued.


----------



## Tommy C

Sennheiser Momentum 2 are $230 in Canada which is $180 USD, lowest price it ever been as far as I know and same price as the CX Plus.


----------



## erockg

Tommy C said:


> Sennheiser Momentum 2 are $230 in Canada which is $180 USD, lowest price it ever been as far as I know and same price as the CX Plus.


I have to admit, I really am liking the CX Plus more than the MTW2.  The Bass is clearer and has more punch.  I always thought the MTWs sounded a bit muddy in bass.  I'd probably recommend everyone to go with the CXPs over the MTW2 at this point.


----------



## Tommy C

erockg said:


> I have to admit, I really am liking the CX Plus more than the MTW2.  The Bass is clearer and has more punch.  I always thought the MTWs sounded a bit muddy in bass.  I'd probably recommend everyone to go with the CXPs over the MTW2 at this point.



Which makes me wonder if I should return the CX 400BT for the CX Plus.
I got the CX 400BT because the deal was too good to pass but mainly because compared to the regular CX they should have more sparkly highs, balanced sound, bigger sound stage but looser bass and the bud are a bit thicker.


----------



## erockg

Tommy C said:


> Which makes me wonder if I should return the CX 400BT for the CX Plus.
> I got the CX 400BT because the deal was too good to pass but mainly because compared to the regular CX they should have more sparkly highs, balanced sound, bigger sound stage but looser bass and the bud are a bit thicker.


I haven't tried the others.  I think if the MTW3's ever get released, they need to keep the case small like the CX and then add wireless charging.  But for $179, that is a fair price and for what I paid, these are a steal.  I put the ePro Large tips on them and they fit perfect in my ears.  Even went for a 2 mile walk and had no issues.  Had to turn off the ANC due to some wind noise but that's to be expected.  ANC mics can pick that stuff up.  Also, used them on a zoom and several calls and nobody complained.


----------



## Tommy C (Oct 6, 2021)

Good comparison but as a fan of Jabra I'm a bit disappointed with this as features and sound quality seem to be all over the place and I wonder how the 85 stacks up.


----------



## Juturna

erockg said:


> I haven't tried the others.  I think if the MTW3's ever get released, they need to keep the case small like the CX and then add wireless charging.  But for $179, that is a fair price and for what I paid, these are a steal.  I put the ePro Large tips on them and they fit perfect in my ears.  Even went for a 2 mile walk and had no issues.  Had to turn off the ANC due to some wind noise but that's to be expected.  ANC mics can pick that stuff up.  Also, used them on a zoom and several calls and nobody complained.


I personally hope that the MTW3's have a smaller case and a slimmer form factor on the earbuds but keep that fabric style case because I think that's a sleek look.

Rocking the white MTW2's right now and I honestly really like them (but maybe don't love them), and that fabric case surprised me, because I feel like the images of it doesn't really do it justice.
It's more of a beige + gray instead of just the light gray case that I thought it was. Thought it would be almost exactly like the one on the MTW1 in color, but not at all. 

Anyway, something that's less bulky in the pocket would be much appreciated, more like the Jabra 75T or AirPods Pro case in size but with that fabric would be so nice. 

Hoping for better ANC, Qi-charging, better call quality (it's OK on the MTW2 though), and obviously better sound too, an update to their app so I can EQ the buds more.


----------



## scubaphish (Oct 7, 2021)

Maybe this has been shared already, but looks like the Soundcore Liberty 3 Pro are $20 off at their website.

https://us.soundcore.com/products/a3952011


----------



## highlightshadow

scubaphish said:


> Maybe this has been shared already, but looks like the Soundcore Liberty 3 Pro are $20 off at their website.
> 
> https://us.soundcore.com/products/a3952011


Yeah ... same for UK Soundcore site .... plus they're the same price on Amazon.co.uk and same-day delivery 
Should get mine in 10 hours 
My Liberty2Pro+ are still within the returns window too -- so double-win


----------



## clerkpalmer

erockg said:


> Maybe this has been shared already, but looks like the Soundcore Liberty 3 Pro are $20 off at their website.





scubaphish said:


> https://us.soundcore.com/products/a3952011


Hmm. Do I need these? I was fond of the originals. They were my go to beaters. Price to features seems solid. Hard to believe we are getting LDAC in sub 150 buds now. I wonder if these would supplant my CA MT?


----------



## clerkpalmer

highlightshadow said:


> Yeah ... same for UK Soundcore site .... plus they're the same price on Amazon.co.uk and same-day delivery
> Should get mine in 10 hours
> My Liberty2Pro+ are still within the returns window too -- so double-win


Interesting. Not shipping in US until 10/20.


----------



## Darkestred

clerkpalmer said:


> Hmm. Do I need these? I was fond of the originals. They were my go to beaters. Price to features seems solid. Hard to believe we are getting LDAC in sub 150 buds now. I wonder if these would supplant my CA MT?


I ordered one.  The disconnected and not connected is getting old.

the black ship before oct 20


----------



## Tommy C

scubaphish said:


> Maybe this has been shared already, but looks like the Soundcore Liberty 3 Pro are $20 off at their website.
> 
> https://us.soundcore.com/products/a3952011


I bet they sound great but like the previous gens I’m not feeling the form factor like although it was redesigned. While it feels super comfortable it looks dated and wind noise is a bit annoying.


----------



## clerkpalmer

Tommy C said:


> I bet they sound great but like the previous gens I’m not feeling the form factor like although it was redesigned. While it feels super comfortable it looks dated and wind noise is a bit annoying.


I'm leaning in this direction.  I remember a lot of wind noise woj them although it looks like they've made them a bit smaller. I'm passing for now but this is a nice offering.


----------



## highlightshadow

clerkpalmer said:


> Interesting. Not shipping in US until 10/20.


On Soundcore's site it says same .... so i just thought i'd check amazon and they showed up with delivery today so i ordered some.
Will post some unboxing pics when i get them and see how they compare to the 2Pro+ i have next to me


----------



## clerkpalmer

highlightshadow said:


> On Soundcore's site it says same .... so i just thought i'd check amazon and they showed up with delivery today so i ordered some.
> Will post some unboxing pics when i get them and see how they compare to the 2Pro+ i have next to me


Got a link? Us?


----------



## clerkpalmer

clerkpalmer said:


> Got a link? Us?


Found em but still showing delayed shipping dates in the US.


----------



## LordToneeus

Tommy C said:


> Good comparison but as a fan of Jabra I'm a bit disappointed with this as features and sound quality seem to be all over the place and I wonder how the 85 stacks up.



I cancelled my order of the Jabra Elite 7 Pro's with Best Buy and pre-ordered the Liberty 3 Pro's instead.  The L2P's were always a delight to me, and the inclusion of ambient and maybe a somewhat smaller footprint has me just giddy in anticipation.


----------



## helmutcheese (Oct 7, 2021)

Also ordered (used to own the 2 pro), it is good you can power on from buds, does not state you can power off from them manually (ideally I need this so hope it does).

Has all controls so only issue could be the 8 hour battery life which unless otherwise stated will be at 50%, Anker have been stuck there for generations when it was ahead of other on 4-6hours but now others offer 10-15hours.

Multipoint is a bonus for me (Android phone) but disables if you use LDAC, pity they never keep the aptX as it will be SBC or LDAC (no need for cd quality+poor battery life+no mutipoint) on my phone and forced to AAC (overriding SBC) on my PC.

On one review they worked out they ANC+LDAC will be a little over 2 hours.


----------



## Tommy C

highlightshadow said:


> On Soundcore's site it says same .... so i just thought i'd check amazon and they showed up with delivery today so i ordered some.
> Will post some unboxing pics when i get them and see how they compare to the 2Pro+ i have next to me


Awesome! Really interested in this comparison as I really like the L2P+.


----------



## Tommy C

helmutcheese said:


> Also ordered (used to own the 2 pro), it is good you can power on from buds, does not state you can power off from them manually (ideally I need this so hope it does).
> 
> Has all controls so only issue could be the 8 hour battery life which unless otherwise stated will be at 50%, Anker have been stuck there for generations when it was ahead of other on 4-6hours but now others offer 10-15hours.
> 
> ...



Interesting stuff. Features are certainly an upgrade over the the L2P+.
I will keep an eye on other reviewers to see how’s the sound quality and this doesn’t really go in-depth re sound quality but since they have a great app I’m sure sound wise it will appeal to most people in that price bracket.


----------



## clerkpalmer

Amazon is showing the EQs as discounted to $360.


----------



## RikudouGoku

FIIL T1 Lite:

















Rank: D


lots of bass (not as much as it graphs) that is muddy, recessed mids, warm and yet sharp (doesnt kill me instantly, but its bad) treble. Poor technicalities and unnatural timbre

Not worth a review....

My TWS journey might have ended as soon as it started... Sennheiser CX400BT better be good....otherwise I will say goodbye to TWS for another decade....


----------



## helmutcheese

Tommy C said:


> Interesting stuff. Features are certainly an upgrade over the the L2P+.
> I will keep an eye on other reviewers to see how’s the sound quality and this doesn’t really go in-depth re sound quality but since they have a great app I’m sure sound wise it will appeal to most people in that price bracket.


----------



## DigDub (Oct 7, 2021)

erockg said:


> I haven't tried the others.  I think if the MTW3's ever get released, they need to keep the case small like the CX and then add wireless charging.  But for $179, that is a fair price and for what I paid, these are a steal.  I put the ePro Large tips on them and they fit perfect in my ears.  Even went for a 2 mile walk and had no issues.  Had to turn off the ANC due to some wind noise but that's to be expected.  ANC mics can pick that stuff up.  Also, used them on a zoom and several calls and nobody complained.


I agree the CX plus are a steal. Flagship-grade sound and features at mid-range price.


----------



## Tommy C

helmutcheese said:


>



Was just about to post this and you beat me to it. Good sound quality comparison  and honest take about the app, ANC, Ambient. 
I completely agreed about his take re the L2P+.


----------



## tinyman392

jant71 said:


> Another reason to wait out is actually for the sound. You have the name but earphones and esp. TWS earphones are a different story than full size. Not sure why his name translates unless he did a great earphone that I missed. Plus the sound stuff using buzz words and mostly talking about SoundID and "the way the artist intended" in not telling you about the speaker inside and why it will be good.
> 
> They sound marketed but not much evidence they will be amazing or anything. I am not convinced from reading these will beat the N6 Pro 2 for sound. They might even fall short.
> 
> They are only $200 which is not bad but, to me, they are a wait and see type.



According to that Engadget article posted, he was the designer of the HD580 and HD800.  They're both over ear headphones though, so I'm not sure how it'll translate over to an in-ear TWS.  I'm debating grabbing them from drop possibly.


----------



## Tommy C

RikudouGoku said:


> FIIL T1 Lite:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I never tried the T1 Lite but I have the T1XS and they are excellent.
based on this review the T1 Lite should be very good though. Are you sure your unit isn’t faulty or something isn’t right with the seal? https://www.scarbir.com/tws/fiil-t1-lite-review

I know the T1XS seal is very strong and can cause the sound to be completely so check and see if that’s the case.
On a separate note, I also have the CX 400BT but they are still untouched as I have very little time nowadays to play around with them.


----------



## RikudouGoku

Tommy C said:


> based on this review the T1 Lite should be very good though. Are you sure your unit isn’t faulty or something isn’t right with the seal? https://www.scarbir.com/tws/fiil-t1-lite-review


I read that review. Got massively dissapointed...

And yes, lol. I did get a seal.....

Decent channel matching, so I dont think it is defective.


----------



## webvan

Looking forward to the first user reviews on the L3Ps as I'm a big fan of the L2Ps for critical listening, but not for noise cancelling or sports of course. I'm not very impressed with the form factor with that "dual shell" that makes likely to protrude badly. I haven't really found any good reviews yet, especially one with "hear how ANC sounds". Too bad we lost "Jim from Jim's Review Room" !


----------



## clerkpalmer

RikudouGoku said:


> FIIL T1 Lite:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Don't give up so easily.  If you want audiophile balanced, look at the Nuarl N6 Pro or the Noble offerings.  I'm sure others come to mind but the Senns will also be somewhat warm and muddy although some are reporting the CX is better in this regard.


----------



## clerkpalmer

Tommy C said:


> Was just about to post this and you beat me to it. Good sound quality comparison  and honest take about the app, ANC, Ambient.
> I completely agreed about his take re the L2P+.


I don't normally know what to think of El Jeffe but this review was pretty well done and I doubt he would shill for Anker over Sony/Apple and Senn. Hmm.  Looks like a solid offering.  Tempted.  If there were available on Amazon 1 day for me, I probably would have already grabbed them.


----------



## RikudouGoku

clerkpalmer said:


> Don't give up so easily.  If you want audiophile balanced, look at the Nuarl N6 Pro or the Noble offerings.  I'm sure others come to mind but the Senns will also be somewhat warm and muddy although some are reporting the CX is better in this regard.


"Audiophile Balanced" is usually bright-neutral to me. 

I dont think I have a problem with the CX400BT´s tonality since I do love stuff like the Sony XBA-N3/Z5, LZ A7.


----------



## clerkpalmer

RikudouGoku said:


> "Audiophile Balanced" is usually bright-neutral to me.
> 
> I dont think I have a problem with the CX400BT´s tonality since I do love stuff like the Sony XBA-N3/Z5, LZ A7.


Yeah, I agree with that description.  My primary point was not to jump ship on TWS with one offering.  There's pretty much a TWS to fit everyone's taste these days.  Good luck with Senns.


----------



## Tommy C (Oct 7, 2021)

clerkpalmer said:


> Don't give up so easily.  If you want audiophile balanced, look at the Nuarl N6 Pro or the Noble offerings.  I'm sure others come to mind but the Senns will also be somewhat warm and muddy although some are reporting the CX is better in this regard.


The CX 400BT should be more natural while the CX and CX are more bassy and warm. 


clerkpalmer said:


> I don't normally know what to think of El Jeffe but this review was pretty well done and I doubt he would shill for Anker over Sony/Apple and Senn. Hmm.  Looks like a solid offering.  Tempted.  If there were available on Amazon 1 day for me, I probably would have already grabbed them.


I find this review to be very honest. Generally speaking I think his reviewers are fairly legit unless I’m missing something.


----------



## highlightshadow (Oct 7, 2021)

Well...
Got my Lib3Pro's...... and i'm not as blown away by these as i was by the 2Pro+

*-- Update*
Took me about 2 hours to write the original post and in that time i'm really enjoying listening to them.
My concerns on the fit are fading -- they aren't moving -- they're just smaller and therefore not contacting with the ear so much and just with the fin so they don't feel as present as the 2's do. When you take them off they just easily pop out and that was giving me this false sense that they weren't in so well. 
I think for the same asking price as the 2's (£15 cheaper for me) they're a real no brainer. The HearID ANC is perfect for casual listening -- it's not as strong as some brands' is but it similarly almost disappears and in my office the computer noise and other minor sounds are just knocked back that bit further without feeling like you're in that heavy ANC territory.

Haven't yet tried them in a noisy environment with full/heavy ANC enabled yet 
The comment that i wasn't blown away is true initially but changing rapidly -- they feel more refined and the sound feels tighter. The bass is there and can be in spades but it's not as boomy ... feels more controlled and the BA driver feels nice.

*--Update end*

Fit for me is interesting .... definitely different feel to these .... they feel like they're going to fall out ... the fins are a lot gentler and i'm kinda paranoid they gonna fall but i've given them a good mosh/headbang and they're "in there".

App --- The Android app has been updated recently with these so they're picked up straight away --- however for me it's *not* allowing me to pick LDAC as it says the buds need a firmware update but when i click the button it tells me I already got the latest (03.36)

The HeadID worked the same .... the ANC test crashed a couple of times and didn't compelte ... so bugs are present in the app/firmware
EQ is worse than Lib2Pro+ -- i cannot use the HearID as a base and EQ from there ... i just have the option of HearID (no further tuning allowed), 3D surround (no further tuning allowed), Default (preset EQ's but no longer include the DJ's - just music styles), then Custom (which is a single set of 8 sliders with no left/right option)
So this is a step-back in my opinion.... actually ... found it just now .... it's kinda burried
Click HearID Test > HearID Sound Test then you can personalise (on) then click Advanced > Custom HearID

Wow... that's well hidden

The buttons are all configurable including turning off individually -- so you could turn off single-tap to prevent accidents
The ear tips "snap" onto the steps rather than just slide on ... they have a firmer plastic core which is secure


The ear seal tests work and says they're ok.
The sound quality is generally better ... bass is less by default than it was before and a step up i think

Case is smaller than previous by a bit ... very sleek ... has white lights under them so you can find them in the dark
Package is great ... 4 sets of tips and fins
Fit and finish is top notch .... case is smoother and more slippery in the hand

Sound stage feels wider and a little more easy .... ANC on adaptive mode is subtle and absolutely does not give you that locked in pressure. But i feel it isn't quite fully stable yet (feels like it comes in and out -- that could be the adaptive nature but i "feel" something every now and then)

Listening to (all via Spotify) - as you can see -- a various mix of genres
Gorillaz - Dare (for bass)
Marian Herzog - No Sanctuary Here (hearing the background noise and piano keys / seat creaking)
Joep Beving - Sleeping Lotus (lots of ambiance)
Terje Lsungset - Ung (bass/sub-bass)
Dominic Miller - Shape of my Heart
The Prodigy - Climbatize
Trifonic - Ninth Wave (feels nice and open with lots of positional sound and a great amount of bass which doesn't muddy the track)
Sizzle Bird - Elixir
Ella Mai - Everything
Pantera - Far Beyond Driven (mids tight metal)
Alanis Morissette - Princes Familiar Unplugged
Rage Against the Machine - Take The Power Back (tight drums / bass but feels more airy than many iems until the beat drops)
Ursine Vulpine - Wicked Game

They definitely need a firmware update to unlock LDAC if nothing else ... and the fit is going to take me a little adjusting to just to feel happy with the fit as they feel looser than the 2Pro's design as they're a smaller shell.

On balance they're a keeper i think .... about 90% sure i'll be sending the 2Pro+ back and keeping the 3's and awaiting a firmware release


----------



## helmutcheese

Can you power them off at the buds (without the case or power save settings)  by a long press the same as you can to power on?


----------



## highlightshadow

helmutcheese said:


> Can you power them off at the buds (without the case or power save settings)  by a long press the same as you can to power on?


Not sure -- not that i can tell -- long press is a configurable item now but power control aren't on the list.
They'll pause music when removed and then go to sleep after a configurable timeout (30 mins being shortest)


----------



## helmutcheese

It officially states you can power on from the buds by long press, so hope it can do the same for off.


----------



## Mouseman

Well, another order placed. I love my L2Ps and these have mostly everything the original was missing, so they can take my money!


----------



## jant71 (Oct 7, 2021)

These were mentioned before...

Seems they are good for sleeping as well as sounding good(Galaxy Buds 2 good?).


https://www.victor.jp/teaser2110/?ad=faileweb1006
I see those trees.  Any chance of a woodie TWS??


----------



## CocaCola15 (Oct 7, 2021)

After shedding all but the CA M1+ and the Status Between Pro, I decided to take a flyer and order the LP3. Won't be here for awhile. I am a major fan of the Soundcore Q30, an amazing value (and pretty close to the Sony M4 over ears). I had the LP2Pro but sold them; felt the treble was just to sharp and didn't care for the form factor. With the 30-day return window here, nothing to lose.


----------



## clerkpalmer

highlightshadow said:


> Well...
> Got my Lib3Pro's...... and i'm not as blown away by these as i was by the 2Pro+
> 
> *-- Update*
> ...


Ldac is not enabled?


----------



## Robius

RikudouGoku said:


> I read that review. Got massively dissapointed...
> 
> And yes, lol. I did get a seal.....
> 
> Decent channel matching, so I dont think it is defective.



Technicalities will be bad with any TWS without LDAC. It's like listening TOTL iems with onboard audio output.


----------



## Tommy C

Robius said:


> Technicalities will be bad with any TWS without LDAC. It's like listening TOTL iems with onboard audio output.


That’s a huge reach, bud. I’m an iPhone user so no LDAC obviously and some of the TWS that I had or demoed sounded great while some not so much and anything in between.


----------



## FYLegend (Oct 8, 2021)

Does the multipoint on the Liberty 3 Pro remember to simultaneously connect to both paired devices (like Jabra 75t) or does it only remember the last-paired device such that you still have to pair the second one manually (like the Soundcore Life Q30)? There's strengths and weaknesses to both implementations, the latter seems more cumbersome but there are some occasions where I forget to break off one connection and if the two devices are apart, it will keep connecting/disconnecting.


----------



## dweaver

I have owned several headphones that have supported LDAC and several that have not and LDAC by itself it has rarely been the main indicator of high sound quality.


----------



## chinmie

I've just posted a review about the Tronsmart Battle here:
https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/tr...-low-latency-13mm-drivers.25397/review/26976/

I also want to share a bit of a summary of my TWS use nowadays. mind you that this is strictly personal opinion and subjective to my daily use scenario only. 

At this moment i think for true form TWS, i'm  quite happy with the performance of sub $100 TWS for my daily uses, that are mostly watching YouTube/Netflix, with light background music listening. 

my most used TWS in rotation are surprisingly all these review units Tronsmarts (Apollo Bold, Air, Apex, Battle), my own Onyx Ace and Sabbat Vooplay.. i mean they just work without trouble, and sounds quite good too for the job. 
After that on the slightly less frequent group would be the XM3 for ANC and also daily uses like the first group, Galaxy Buds that i usually only use for music (still love the harman tuning), and Buds Live for calls and Zoom meetings. 

The other on my collection would occasionally be used for sport and just so that the batteries don't dry out completely. 

Also i found a technician from my audio forum that can change TWS batteries, so i think i could get more life out of my collection for some years. 

For purely listening to music, i still prefer the BT earhook/dongles route like BT20S Pro paired with my IEMs.. i still personally think even paired with sub $100 IEMs like the KZs, Tinaudio, HZ, etc, it's still just sound overall better than most TWS I've heard, and also more economical in the long run. Also this solution is definitely scalable: for instance, i can easily paired my sony M9 on them and use it as TWS if i want better drivers. 

so that's my thought and experience, at least for this time. I'm sure there would be changes of views in the future as new products and techs coming in


----------



## helmutcheese (Oct 8, 2021)

Correct and a waste of time if not listing to Hi-Res (my collection is 99% mp3 @ 320k) as the player will have to resample it added to the limit of 48K on Android for Amazon Music HD and other similar services.

I could only listen to 96k using PowerAmp Pro and local files on my SD card.

Battery life also takes a hammering with LDAC and if you are watching a movie the lag is higher than other codecs due to bandwidth, also range is shorter.


----------



## Tommy C (Oct 8, 2021)

Finally had some time to fiddle around with the Sennheiser CX 400BT and they are really nice.
I would describe the sound as very balanced, mature and uncolored. Spacious with very good soundstage with some "out of the head" capabilities.
Not in your face at all, not mid-centric and controlled bass that is very pleasant, not the tightest but very natural.
All test using the default Neutral eq.
Controls are super precise. I was a bit PTSD after my CA MT experience regarding the touch controls and bassy sound but I'm glad these are the complete opposite.

The app is decent and allow you to customize the touch controls which I love.
The EQ on the other hand is mediocre at best and not super sensitive. It works but not as near as good as the Soundcore eq.

Got them really cheap and they are definitely a keeper as I feel like most TWS are just too bassy out of the box and while I like some punchy bass it gets overwhelming for my ears at times and fatiguing. Luckily it isn't the case with the CX 400BT.


----------



## highlightshadow (Oct 8, 2021)

clerkpalmer said:


> Ldac is not enabled?


Not yet. The button in the app takes you to a firmware update page but no update available

Update: Video screen-cap of the issue: 

*Update*
Spoken to customer services they just say they're aware and will update "soon"
Watched a couple of YouTube reviews and one showed the same issue and they were on 03.22 firmware ... so there's definitely been 1 update pushed out between early-adopter/Youtuber buds and what's going out off the production line.
Still - given that Amazon UK had them for sale and in-stock for same-day delivery the minute Soundcore announced them they must have been sat in Amazon for a few days at least i would assume plus shipping time from China to UK from manufacture date ... so i'm guessing a couple weeks since they left factory

*Update 2*
Seems to be a bug more than a missing feature .... This youtuber video is on 03.35 (lower than mine) and has LDAC enable


----------



## highlightshadow

helmutcheese said:


> It officially states you can power on from the buds by long press, so hope it can do the same for off.


Nope -- cannot --- can hold touch panel for ages and it doesn't turn off.... so either 30 m idle timeout or case


----------



## helmutcheese

Bummer, not ideal and no real excuse for not having > Power On/Power Off/Enter alt Pairing mode by long pressing the button usually 3-5secs or so.

AFAIR the Liberty 2 Pros did the above.


----------



## Caipirina

erockg said:


> I haven't noticed.  I'll try it and see.  I do know they do not have a mic and controls on the buds because they're so small.  So far, still working great for me.


Ended up ordering from AliExpress… supposed to arrive on 18th


----------



## clerkpalmer

Robius said:


> Technicalities will be bad with any TWS without LDAC. It's like listening TOTL iems with onboard audio output.


This is probably an overstatement but I think the OP was probably referring to things like detail and resolution and perhaps not SQ in general.  Even then, it's probably not accurate either.  While I'm a fan of LDAC using hi-res files largely because I want the best at all times, if given a blind listen, I doubt I could pick LDAC over AAC on an iphone or Aptx on Android.  AAC on Android or SBC, then yes for sure.   I'm joining the club of believing that any differences are probably related to source materials and other factors and probably not LDAC versus AAC.  I still think LDAC and hi res codecs play a role in the overall package of a TWS and am glad we are seeing more of this.


----------



## dweaver

Totally agree regarding LDAC clerkpalmer. The entire chain comes into play starting with having true hi-res media through the entire chain.

My challenge with LDAC is it can be implemented on any BT device and is then used as a marketing tool regardless of how good or bad the rest of device is. Even within Sony products who developed the Codec I have owned several models that simply could not convey the detail the Codec provides in any tangible way to my ears and that was using hi-res flac files as my source media. While other lesser codec BT headphones were able to convey more detail.

Guess what I am saying is in a perfect world where I have hi-res audio files, coupled with a new enough phone to fully implement LDAC, no potential EMI, a headphone using LDAC that is coupled with internal components that can convey the quality of transmitted data, with adequate drivers properly tuned to produce the musical output with the detail, then LDAC would be a game changer...

Unfortunately that's rarely happens in the real world, so LDAC becomes a nice to have but not game changing.


----------



## clerkpalmer

dweaver said:


> Guess what I am saying is in a perfect world where I have hi-res audio files, coupled with a new enough phone to fully implement LDAC, no potential EMI, a headphone using LDAC that is coupled with internal components that can convey the quality of transmitted data, with adequate drivers properly tuned to produce the musical output with the detail, then LDAC would be a game changer


So you're saying there's a chance ? ...

I have remarked before that there is something going on with the pi7 that makes them sound better and special over aptxhd. Perhaps they have achieved the special sauce you referenced above.


----------



## highlightshadow

Following on from the initial post on the Soundcore Liberty 3Pro here: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/goi...soon-or-are-we-there-yet.861024/post-16600785

So cannot still select LDAC - what i have noted via watching several review videos is that there's 3 different firmwares out there but only 1 of them seems to be allowing LDAC at present.

03.22: Not allowing
03.35: Is allowing
03.36: Not allowing

I've emailed + chatted to Soundcore about it -- they've confirmed that it's something they're aware of but as yet "officially" it's not available and will be soon. They said they'd email me tomorrow with an update.

Had a few random disconnections while listening ... 2s of silence and then resumption
Am enjoying the fit and sound of these more and more as i listen more.
The fit is lighter pressure than the 2 pro design ... the rubber fins are softer and hollow bubbles of rubber rather than a solid curve of rubber so they flex more and cushion
Means they feel not as secure but in a good amount of listening they've not once lost their seal.

The new case finish is a small step back in usability but better in pocket friendlyness. It's VERY smooth and lacks any grip. So trying to open the case 1 handed is trickier in clean/dry hands but it is thinner / flatter 

Sound quality is improved ... bass feels tighter and less boomy with the same EQ settings. Feels more open and less "in my head" ... still not close to a pair of open-back headphones but for IEM's i don't think it's bad at all.

Although "SoundCore Sound" EQ default is still very heavy 
I am enjoying the HeadID ANC --- it's pleasant and just drops the background noise down enough to be pleasant and still manages to keep that open feeling which for ANC is pretty rare.


----------



## dj24

highlightshadow said:


> Following on from the initial post on the Soundcore Liberty 3Pro here: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/goi...soon-or-are-we-there-yet.861024/post-16600785
> 
> So cannot still select LDAC - what i have noted via watching several review videos is that there's 3 different firmwares out there but only 1 of them seems to be allowing LDAC at present.
> 
> ...


When you can get around to it- let us know what the call quality sounds like..


----------



## helmutcheese (Oct 8, 2021)

Got mine, updated Firmware to get LDAC but not tried yet and currently not on the HD sub for Amazon so will grab some 24/96 file later and put on SD card and play in PowerAmp Pro/USB AudioPlayer

No way are these loud esp. on Android, the L2 Pro's were AFAIR louder but they are touch louder in Windows but stuck on AAC Codec due to MS dumb move with no way to choose SBC.

Thy are by no means quiet but have no headroom for your Fav song or a lower volume recoding unlike many I haver owned like the SoundPeats H1 Prem (dead).

My AC/DC  Album with Thunderstruck (mp3@320k ripped from my own CD) should blow my ears off at 100%.

So much for full controls, I had to sacrifice Assistant to get Play/Next/Previous/cycle ANC/AMB/OFF, there is no Triple Tap which could be use for Assistant as lesser used function.

Also if you set Volume to Long Press/Hold it will only go up one notch so you need keep repeating to go up more so that is not going to work so best set it to another, I choose the Track Controls.

Not been outside yet and will test on my FAV big fridges in the local store but they did really drown out my Microware Oven earlier.

For me the real test is the noise outside my bay window mainly cars passing, Sony's do not do it for me but some other have for some reason or another, SoundPeats T2 and JLab JBuds Air ANC and possibly one other I forget fort now.

I am not blown away by the sound so far and if they are not going to be any Louder and add Power Off from the Buds and Triple Tap via Firmware I doubt I will keep these.

Battery is disappointing but lets see real sue but as these will need be at least 80% Vol all the time and on some albums 90-100% not going to get near 8 hours more like 5-6hours.


----------



## highlightshadow

helmutcheese said:


> Got mine, updated Firmware to get LDAC but not tried yet and currently not on the HD sub for Amazon so will grab some 24/96 file later and put on SD card and play in PowerAmp Pro/USB AudioPlayer
> 
> No way are these loud esp. on Android, the L2 Pro's were AFAIR louder but they are touch louder in Windows but stuck on AAC Codec due to MS dumb move with no way to choose SBC.
> 
> ...


Yeah -- i just got a follow-up email to my case saying that they'd pushed the firmware out to the app

Can't argue with their responsiveness.... installing it now


----------



## Ceeluh7

chinmie said:


> I've just posted a review about the Tronsmart Battle here:
> https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/tr...-low-latency-13mm-drivers.25397/review/26976/
> 
> I also want to share a bit of a summary of my TWS use nowadays. mind you that this is strictly personal opinion and subjective to my daily use scenario only.
> ...


I agree with you about the ear/dongle. I have the mmcx and 2pin versions of Fiio Utws3 and as far as sound quality goes... Dude there is nothing that can touch these as far as tws goes. 

As far as SQ with tws, first off I have owned so damn many tws from higher end and down to 50 bucks and for example, the Soundpeats H1 lack almost nothing compared to very high end units. With the right tips, (I almost never use stock tips, tws 101) they sound absolutely amazing for tws standards and they are below 100, connect perfectly, bt 5.2 and basically do what you need, as far as Anc.... Nobody needs anc in tws as none of them is really very great. I guess I'm agreeing with you that you most Def do not have to spend super big bucks for competent and good SQ tws. 

I have the Fiio FH5 attached to one unit of utws3 and the Tfz no. 3 on the 2 pin version and honestly, with the dac inside of utws3 and those amps which really push even semi harder to drive earphones I think it'd be quite awhile for any tws to even try to get close. You are right that even cheaper KZ iems or Tin Audio would beat even high end tws.


----------



## Ceeluh7

helmutcheese said:


> Got mine, updated Firmware to get LDAC but not tried yet and currently not on the HD sub for Amazon so will grab some 24/96 file later and put on SD card and play in PowerAmp Pro/USB AudioPlayer
> 
> No way are these loud esp. on Android, the L2 Pro's were AFAIR louder but they are touch louder in Windows but stuck on AAC Codec due to MS dumb move with no way to choose SBC.
> 
> ...


El Jefe said these were amazingly loud... Wth. Do you have absolute volume clicked off? Volume is a huge issue for me, I want headroom. I have to stop listening to hype boys on YouTube. Also what phone are you using these on if you don't mind?


----------



## helmutcheese

He says a lot of things about many earbuds that I find the opposite of TBH.

Moto Z2 Force.


----------



## assassin10000

Ceeluh7 said:


> Nobody needs anc in tws as none of them is really very great...



I'll have to disagree there, I found the XM3 ANC as well as the XM4 pretty awesome. They definitely make a huge difference in my listening volume level when commuting.


----------



## pitch_black

VICosPhi said:


> Just ordered these based solely on positive feedback on sound quality from almost everyone on the internet. Last time this happened was for Sennheiser MTW2 and they did not disappoint. But MTW2 are a total package where as B&O EQs lack basic track controls and any touch customization so I will only keep these if the SQ is noticeably better than MTW2.


That’s when a smartwatch (e.g. AW) comes in handy. You can control the volume, music and tracks/playlist from your wrist…..


----------



## pitch_black (Oct 8, 2021)

clerkpalmer said:


> My left EQ is dead and won't take a charge. Any suggestions other than RMA?


Oh sorry to hear happened to mine as well.  Had to RMA but was replaced very fast. They received them on the 5th, reviewed them on the 7th and send a replacement on the same day….. waiting for the delivery next week.


----------



## highlightshadow

Ceeluh7 said:


> El Jefe said these were amazingly loud... Wth. Do you have absolute volume clicked off? Volume is a huge issue for me, I want headroom. I have to stop listening to hype boys on YouTube. Also what phone are you using these on if you don't mind?


That's comfortable volume for me... Another notch or two higher is about as loud as I can tolerate. About 3 clicks left from there to max which would be hearing destroying in short order
I'm using Samsung galaxy s21 ultra


----------



## highlightshadow

dj24 said:


> When you can get around to it- let us know what the call quality sounds like..


Did a voice record via app and it was very clear to me. Definitely didn't have that muddy/distortion that sometimes comes though


----------



## Ceeluh7

highlightshadow said:


> That's comfortable volume for me... Another notch or two higher is about as loud as I can tolerate. About 3 clicks left from there to max which would be hearing destroying in short order
> I'm using Samsung galaxy s21 ultra


I agree with you... The reason I want headroom is because I've noticed with plenty up top the dynamics on many sets are better implemented. Many times with tws the amps on these chips just barely have enough to really extend the frequencies to give really good sound too the spectrum. I do not listen at full volume or even close but if I am listening at lower volumes i don't want thin sounds, or veiled, in any area if possible, granted we are talking tws so it does kind of come with the territory. Anyways thank you for replying man
.. Take care


----------



## highlightshadow

Ceeluh7 said:


> I agree with you... The reason I want headroom is because I've noticed with plenty up top the dynamics on many sets are better implemented. Many times with tws the amps on these chips just barely have enough to really extend the frequencies to give really good sound too the spectrum. I do not listen at full volume or even close but if I am listening at lower volumes i don't want thin sounds, or veiled, in any area if possible, granted we are talking tws so it does kind of come with the territory. Anyways thank you for replying man
> .. Take care


Yeah don't worry about volume. Your gonna be able to push any band up a lot and have headroom. 
I'm struggling to find fault with them the more time I spend with them.


----------



## Ceeluh7

highlightshadow said:


> Yeah don't worry about volume. Your gonna be able to push any band up a lot and have headroom.
> I'm struggling to find fault with them the more time I spend with them.


Thanks man. I have a bit to wait for them, I think by Oct 22nd. I'm looking forward to hearing how Soundcore did with these


----------



## helmutcheese

Hey, on Gamesky's LP 3 he has 3 taps that I am missing, and I only installed it today so should be latest version (Android) and as above I did update the Firmware you can see he has not so far.


----------



## highlightshadow

helmutcheese said:


> Hey, on Gamesky's LP 3 he has 3 taps that I am missing, and I only installed it today so should be latest version (Android) and as above I did update the Firmware you can see he has not so far.



I got 4 options in controls: Single tap, Double tap, Hold 2s, Triple Tap


----------



## helmutcheese (Oct 8, 2021)

I messed about there a minute ago and in Language Settings (I use English) I never touched anything but when I left it some menus were in Non English and then I could see the 3 Taps Header and enable it.

I now can do everything bar Power Off via the buds.

3 Taps a lot of time is detected as 2 Taps, must be a timing issue.

I do not have the Voice Beta option in Ambient though so will try the trick above again later.


----------



## clerkpalmer

Off topic but I had $200 in amazon points burning a hole in my pocket.  I've been eying some full size ANC cans.  Appreciate the feedback here on H95 but couldn't bring myself to pony up for them even at $650.  I decided to give the new Yamaha a try:  https://usa.yamaha.com/products/audio_visual/headphones/yh-l700a/index.html

Not much in the way of reviews, but I've always like Yamaha as a company.  They promise spatial audio but without the need for Dolby.  Only cost me $250 so I figured it will be worth a try.

Over in the Noble thread, the reviews on the Fokus are positive.  Looking forward to mine.

Sadly, I've misplaced my Gemini.  Has anyone seen them?


----------



## BooleanBones

clerkpalmer said:


> Off topic but I had $200 in amazon points burning a hole in my pocket.  I've been eying some full size ANC cans.  Appreciate the feedback here on H95 but couldn't bring myself to pony up for them even at $650.  I decided to give the new Yamaha a try:  https://usa.yamaha.com/products/audio_visual/headphones/yh-l700a/index.html
> 
> Not much in the way of reviews, but I've always like Yamaha as a company.  They promise spatial audio but without the need for Dolby.  Only cost me $250 so I figured it will be worth a try.
> 
> ...


I love me some cans. Gives the ear canals a break from the bud tips. Yamaha has some cans that are huge they just released. These look much better


----------



## clerkpalmer

BooleanBones said:


> I love me some cans. Gives the ear canals a break from the bud tips. Yamaha has some cans that are huge they just released. These look much better


Word. Definitely prefer cans for comfort. My expectations are in check. We will see. Was down to H95, Panda, APM and the Yamaha. Only bummer is aptx adaptive. I don't understand that one. There are like zero sources on the planet that offer this one. It's basically vaporware. For 499 give me something better.


----------



## bladefd (Oct 8, 2021)

I hope we see some new TWS announced for release early next year.

I'm irritated with charging issue on MT and want to jump ship. I got the new pair through RMA just 6 weeks ago, and it's hell trying to get the left side to begin charging. Yesterday, I had to re-insert the left bud about 7 times before the red charging light finally came on. Otherwise it just blinks white, which means it's not charging. 7 freaking times! I have been counting every time for the past week after cleaning both buds with alcohol wipe. I have to re-insert it 3 times minimum (7 yesterday is the record). Couple times, the bud stayed connected to my phone through the night lol. Before the rma, I had the same issue on the right side (and never left). The rma'd one is on the left side (and never right). The case is junk.

I am just trying to figure out if I should get this RMA'd again and sell the new one they send me. It's impossible to know how it's going to be so best to sell+move on to something else.


----------



## Tommy C (Oct 9, 2021)

bladefd said:


> I hope we see some new TWS announced for release early next year.
> 
> I'm irritated with charging issue on MT and want to jump ship. I got the new pair through RMA just 6 weeks ago, and it's hell trying to get the left side to begin charging. Yesterday, I had to re-insert the left bud about 7 times before the red charging light finally came on. Otherwise it just blinks white, which means it's not charging. 7 freaking times! I have been counting every time for the past week after cleaning both buds with alcohol wipe. I have to re-insert it 3 times minimum (7 yesterday is the record). Couple times, the bud stayed connected to my phone through the night lol. Before the rma, I had the same issue on the right side (and never left). The rma'd one is on the left side (and never right). The case is junk.
> 
> I am just trying to figure out if I should get this RMA'd again and sell the new one they send me. It's impossible to know how it's going to be so best to sell+move on to something else.



I had moved on from the CA MT. I find the software glitches to be too irritating.
Surprisingly though I didn't have any issues with the case.
I now have the Sennheiser CX 400BT and they work flawlessly and the touch controls compared to the MT are night and day.
They are fully customizable and and you can still adjust the buds in you ears without skipping or cranking up the volume to the max lol
If you want balanced sound the CX 400BT are a still at $99 but their sound is very different than the MT.
The CX and CX Plus are more bassy and the touch feedback is somewhat different than the 400s  - really depends what you prefer.
Also maybe the Soundcore Liberty 3 pro if you like to tinker around with the sound?
​


----------



## TK33

clerkpalmer said:


> Word. Definitely prefer cans for comfort. My expectations are in check. We will see. Was down to H95, Panda, APM and the Yamaha. Only bummer is aptx adaptive. I don't understand that one. There are like zero sources on the planet that offer this one. It's basically vaporware. For 499 give me something better.


Not sure i follow your point re aptX adaptive.  I know Samsung and Apple dont have it but newer Qualcomm based phones seem to.  Maybe i just think that because both my LG V60 and OnePlus 8T have it.  AptX adaptive is also supposedly backwatds compatible with other aptX codecs like aptX HD (e.g. if you use the PI7 with a device that has aptX HD but not aptX adaptive your phone will send to the PI7 via aptX HD).  However, if the phone is capable of aptX adaptive, you get aptX adaptive and not aptX HD (at least I have not figured out how to force aptX HD instead).  I think we will continue to see more aptX adaptive devices until we get Qualcomm's new Lossless codec, which I understand may be based on aptX adaptive.

Maybe I misunderstood your comment.


----------



## helmutcheese

Anyone got major hissing while playing music on the L 3 Pro's (Normal Mode not Amb or ANC), I seem to remember an issue on the L 2 Pro's though my set were fine.

It is more so when the song is quiet at start and end but throughout it is like the singer has a lisp (sibilance?).


----------



## bladefd (Oct 9, 2021)

Tommy C said:


> I had moved on from the CA MT. I find the software glitches too be too irritating.
> Surprisingly though I didn't have any issues with the case.
> I now have the Sennheiser CX 400BT and they work flawlessly and the touch controls compared to the MT are night and day.
> They are fully customizable and and you can still adjust the buds in you ears without skipping or cranking up the volume to the max lol
> ...


I tried CX400BT in December for a few weeks before returning. They were uncomfortable and too big for side-sleeping. The sound was great though. I haven't tried the new CX plus - not sure if they are the same size. They do look just as bulky though as the CX400BT - I don't think they would work for occasional side-sleeping.

Is anyone else here a side-sleeper and tried a variety of TWS? I would be curious to know what you liked.


----------



## Tommy C

bladefd said:


> I tried CX400BT in December for a few weeks before returning. They were uncomfortable and too big for side-sleeping. The sound was great though. I haven't tried the new CX plus though - not sure if they are the same size. They do look just as bulky though as the CX400BT - I don't think they would work for occasional side-sleeping.
> 
> Is anyone else here a side-sleeper and tried a variety of TWS? I would be curious to know what you liked.


Yeah the CX 400 is definitely not a good option for side sleeping. The CX is still although slightly less than the 400.
I think the 1More Comfort Bud Pro might be a decent option. Never tried them but saw them in a store and they are quite small but a stem design.


----------



## J_3000 (Oct 9, 2021)

Few more tws tested:

Mifo o5 gen2. Sound quality is not up to my standards. Tried them only for a day, and in this time couldn't get a secure fit either. The case is sturdy, but opening mechanism is weird. Still, the sq is subpar and will go back to Amazon immediately for that alone.

Got the Lypertek Z7 gen2 yesterday. Fit was immediately good. BUT who has designed the control buttons on these? This is one of the stupidest implementations ever. Tactile buttons, that are really heavy to press. With  direct in ear insert design of the tws, this means you will push them in your brains. You really cant even use this function. Who ever came up with this, would be fired in a heartbeat if this was my company.

If the buttons need to be in this position, touch controls would be at least usable. Also they stick out from your ears so much, that you could place tactile buttons on the top outer part. When pressed with you index, you would support the tws with your thumb.

This alone makes them unusable for me and will be returned. I dont want to do all control from my phone. Also when Im biking, its something thats a must.

Also I listened them only for few hours, but quick estimate is stil that my MW07 Plus sound better. Brighter and more balanced.

I have been looking for something new for a while, but at the same time I dont want to stack several tws's. I want a product that I would be good for sound, calls, battery and come with aptX. Im starting to feel, that getting the MW07 Plus from M&D website for 125€ was a steal and hard to beat. Hard to beat reasonably, as I guess the MW08 would be better, but not 300€ better. Some reviews say the MW08 sound almost the same, so smaller size and app probably does not justify spending 300€


----------



## webvan

helmutcheese said:


> Anyone got major hissing while playing music on the L 3 Pro's (Normal Mode not Amb or ANC), I seem to remember an issue on the L 2 Pro's though my set were fine.
> 
> It is more so when the song is quiet at start and end but throughout it is like the singer has a lisp (sibilance?).


That was a MAJOR problem on the LP2s, it took them 3 versions to get that problem under control, surely they would have learnt their lesson!


----------



## highlightshadow

webvan said:


> That was a MAJOR problem on the LP2s, it took them 3 versions to get that problem under control, surely they would have learnt their lesson!


Will give it a try but certainly on ANC I have zero hiss

One thing to note, if you enable LDAC on l3pro you lose multi point function. So there's a trade off


----------



## BigZ12

I have this problem with Airpods Pro, Sony XM4 and most notable, the Devialet Geminis.
With ANC on. and when chewing, I get this driver flex like noise especially in the left ear. Pops, crackle, some static sounding interference (APPs)
For instance the Geminis are unusable with ANC HIGH ON and with silicone tips. I would say the XM4's are in the same category.
Now I have to use Comply Foam (TW-200-C) on both the Sony and Devialet. The Devialets I also have to use ANC LOW.
The APPs just give this static noise, and a kind of distortion when chewing and also when taking a call.

There's no noise at all when ANC is off with either of the TWSs!

With my pinky finger in the left ear, I feel that the jawbones affect the ear canal a lot in the left ear when chewing/opening mouth. (sorry I couldn't explain it better)
I guess this is the reason? The mics are picking up the movements and I get this noise with ANC on??


----------



## scubaphish

BigZ12 said:


> I have this problem with Airpods Pro, Sony XM4 and most notable, the Devialet Geminis.
> With ANC on. and when chewing, I get this driver flex like noise especially in the left ear. Pops, crackle, some static sounding interference (APPs)
> For instance the Geminis are unusable with ANC HIGH ON and with silicone tips. I would say the XM4's are in the same category.
> Now I have to use Comply Foam (TW-200-C) on both the Sony and Devialet. The Devialets I also have to use ANC LOW.
> ...


I suggest that not only are the mics potentially picking up movement sounds, but that the earphones are adjusting to changes in air pressure from chewing, resulting in some noises. 
All that said, not to state what you may already know, but wrt to APP, apple has a repair program for older APP that have noises such as you are describing.

https://support.apple.com/airpods-pro-service-program-sound-issues


An affected AirPods Pro may exhibit one or more of the following behaviors:

Crackling or static sounds that increase in loud environments, with exercise or while talking on the phone
Active Noise Cancellation not working as expected, such as a loss of bass sound, or an increase in background sounds, such as street or airplane noise


----------



## BigZ12

scubaphish said:


> I suggest that not only are the mics potentially picking up movement sounds, but that the earphones are adjusting to changes in air pressure from chewing, resulting in some noises.
> All that said, not to state what you may already know, but wrt to APP, apple has a repair program for older APP that have noises such as you are describing.
> 
> https://support.apple.com/airpods-pro-service-program-sound-issues
> ...


Thanks. 
Yes, I guess you're right about the air pressure change. Most likely what's causing it. 
When using smaller tips, and not getting a good seal (Gemini medium silicone tips for example), this problem is almost non excisting.

I know about the Apple service program. Mine is produced January 2021, and are not affected by this. I have no other problems with them, other than some noise when chewing/talking (moving mouth) and with ANC on as well.


----------



## clerkpalmer

TK33 said:


> Not sure i follow your point re aptX adaptive.  I know Samsung and Apple dont have it but newer Qualcomm based phones seem to.  Maybe i just think that because both my LG V60 and OnePlus 8T have it.  AptX adaptive is also supposedly backwatds compatible with other aptX codecs like aptX HD (e.g. if you use the PI7 with a device that has aptX HD but not aptX adaptive your phone will send to the PI7 via aptX HD).  However, if the phone is capable of aptX adaptive, you get aptX adaptive and not aptX HD (at least I have not figured out how to force aptX HD instead).  I think we will continue to see more aptX adaptive devices until we get Qualcomm's new Lossless codec, which I understand may be based on aptX adaptive.
> 
> Maybe I misunderstood your comment.


You understood me.  I was complaining mostly about Samsung who doesn't support either Adaptive or HD. Given Samsung sells like 5 out of 10 Android phones worldwide, it seems like Adaptive isn't really that prevalent.  I do understand that other Android makers support it. As far as backwards compatibility, I'll see if that is right.  I have a pixel that supports Aptx HD so I'll see if I can force Aptx HD on them.  That would be cool and come to think of it, my PI7 does this as well.


----------



## helmutcheese

You only get aptX HD if the earbuds add it separately, aptX Adaptive falls back to aptX if you do not have support for it on your phone.

I like you had a set of B&W P14's (aptx Adaptive) on my Moto Z2 Force and they have the separate aptx HD codec so that is good for me but all others since using the QC3040 do not so you loose HD.


----------



## clerkpalmer

helmutcheese said:


> You only get aptX HD if the earbuds add it separately, aptX Adaptive falls back to aptX if you do not have support for it on your phone.
> 
> I like you had a set of B&W P14's (aptx Adaptive) on my Moto Z2 Force and they have the separate aptx HD codec so that is good for me but all others since using the QC3040 do not so you loose HD.


Argh bummer.  So bizarre that they would go with Adaptive but not HD.  Now, I do have the creative USB Dongle that supports AptxHD and can convert a phone to an AptxHD source.  So if I combine that with the headphones that support Aptx Adaptive perhaps that will work.


----------



## helmutcheese (Oct 9, 2021)

FYI that is direct info from Lenovo/Moto staff as I was pissed about it and posted on their forums and it was due to QUALCOMM's confusing info and he had to get back to me on it after asking the engineers if it can be added but the chipset in my phone does not support it.

Your second part is the same situation as mine, my phone does support aptX HD but not aptX Adaptive so no it will never only ever be aptX if your using aptX Adaptive earbuds unless like above they added the addition aptX HD codec like B&W did on the P14's.

I also tried it with 2 USB adapters that support aptX HD and it falls back to aptX.


----------



## clerkpalmer

helmutcheese said:


> FYI that is direct info from Lenovo/Moto staff as I was pissed about it and posted on their forums and it was due to QUALCOMM's confusing info and he had to get back to me on it after asking the engineers if it can be added but the chipset in my phone does not support it.


It's truly bizarre on all levels.  All of these codecs are supported in the base android OS so the fact that manufactures are enabling some and not others is really a detriment to consumers.  Samsung appears to be disabling HD and Adaptive in favor of their own proprietary codec.


----------



## helmutcheese

I was told the phones chipset has to support aptX Adaptive (enabling it in DEV does nothing) like your phone chipset had to support TWS+ or the TWS+ buds fell back to TWS (Master/Slave Mode) but now we have aptX Mirroring so the phones chipset does not matter as it is done on the earbuds.


----------



## Juturna

I’ve finally gone and gotten myself a pair of Devialet Geminis! 

I realized that the included tips are less than great at least for my ears, I realized that when I tried so hard at liking them but felt like I was less than convinced.

What made me realize that they didn’t fit well was that changing the EQ in the app barely changed the sound at all, but then I switched to another set of tips that I have and now the EQ-ing actually makes a difference and can be noticed even if you switch a slider just one step up or down, lol.

im still not convinced that I think these sound better than the MTW2’s to my ears but I’m still getting used to them so I might just change my mind about that later on!


----------



## TK33 (Oct 9, 2021)

clerkpalmer said:


> It's truly bizarre on all levels.  All of these codecs are supported in the base android OS so the fact that manufactures are enabling some and not others is really a detriment to consumers.  Samsung appears to be disabling HD and Adaptive in favor of their own proprietary codec.


Samsung definitely is and has been for a while. This is why I stopped buying Samsung phones once I started getting into bluetooth.  Owned every Galaxy phone from GS3 to GS9 and a Note in between too.  Wife still uses the Flip 3 though because she, like most consumers, doesn't care about codecs.

Anyway, once you get your cans, please lef us know what it connects using. I am very curious.  I was actually very unhappy that the PI7s did not connect to my Node 2i via aptX HD, which definitely has aptX HD (works fine with other devices like my Aonic 50, ES100 and Qudelix 5K).


----------



## clerkpalmer (Oct 9, 2021)

TK33 said:


> Samsung definitely is and has been for a while. This is why I stopped buying Samsung phones once I started getting into bluetooth.  Owned every Galaxy phone from GS3 to GS9 and a Note in between too.  Wife still uses the Flip 3 though because she, like most consumers, doesn't care about codecs.
> 
> Anyway, once you get your cans, please lef us know what it connects using. I am very curious.  I was actually very unhappy that the PI7s did not connect to my Node 2i via aptX HD, which definitely has aptX HD (works fine with other devices like my Aonic 50, ES100 and Qudelix 5K).


So good news, these connected right to AptxHD on my Pixel despite the fact that the Yamaha literature only lists Aptx Adaptive.  As an aside, for anyone looking at cans, these things are pretty cool.  The 3D DSP is very effective - similar to the Mobius with multiple DSP Modes and head tracking.  I still haven't figured out why I need head tracking or whether I like it but I do like the DSP.  It adds some space to stereo music listening and it seems just as effective as spatial audio but without the proprietary nonsense.  There is an "Audio Room" setting I really like; I may have a hard time going back to regular 2D stereo after this.  Like a lot of ANC headphones, these have a lot of bass - in ways that you can't get out of TWS and which is much thicker than I am used to with my open and closed back planars.  I'd love to compare these to the H95 for craps and giggles.


----------



## Aevum

TK33 said:


> Samsung definitely is and has been for a while. This is why I stopped buying Samsung phones once I started getting into bluetooth.  Owned every Galaxy phone from GS3 to GS9 and a Note in between too.  Wife still uses the Flip 3 though because she, like most consumers, doesn't care about codecs.
> 
> Anyway, once you get your cans, please lef us know what it connects using. I am very curious.  I was actually very unhappy that the PI7s did not connect to my Node 2i via aptX HD, which definitely has aptX HD (works fine with other devices like my Aonic 50, ES100 and Qudelix 5K).



Samsung are scum, all their bluetooth buds have the Samsung Scalable codec, so basically if you want good quality bluetooth Audio with a samsung phone, you need Samsung buds to get it, every day they go more in to apple terretory. the only other company that does this is Huawei, The freebuds pro use the Huawei scalable codec and AAC with non huawei devices.


----------



## clerkpalmer

Aevum said:


> Samsung are scum, all their bluetooth buds have the Samsung Scalable codec, so basically if you want good quality bluetooth Audio with a samsung phone, you need Samsung buds to get it, every day they go more in to apple terretory. the only other company that does this is Huawei, The freebuds pro use the Huawei scalable codec and AAC with non huawei devices.


If Samsung is scum then what is Apple?


----------



## Aevum

a company i dont hold in very high esteem.


----------



## TK33 (Oct 9, 2021)

clerkpalmer said:


> So good news, these connected right to AptxHD on my Pixel despite the fact that the Yamaha literature only lists Aptx Adaptive.  As an aside, for anyone looking at cans, these things are pretty cool.  The 3D DSP is very effective - similar to the Mobius with multiple DSP Modes and head tracking.  I still haven't figured out why I need head tracking or whether I like it but I do like the DSP.  It adds some space to stereo music listening and it seems just as effective as spatial audio but without the proprietary nonsense.  There is an "Audio Room" setting I really like; I may have a hard time going back to regular 2D stereo after this.  Like a lot of ANC headphones, these have a lot of bass - in ways that you can't get out of TWS and which is much thicker than I am used to with my open and closed back planars.  I'd love to compare these to the H95 for craps and giggles.


That is the same way the PI7 behaves.  I think it is backward compatible but the implementation is inconsistent and there are some compatibility issues (such as the issues I had with my Node 2i and PI7s). Glad it worked for you. Actually thinking of grabbing a Pixel next I think since it has aptX HD dual SIM (another thing Samsung cripples in the US), and all the 5G bands I need.


----------



## erockg

Anyone having a charge issue with their Devialet Gemini?  Driving me nuts.  Mine do not charge to 100% unless they are off the charger.  And, it's usually the right bud that won't charge all the way.  I think there's some sort of battery drain issue happening.


----------



## helmutcheese

TK33 said:


> That is the same way the PI7 behaves.  I think it is backward compatible but the implementation is inconsistent and there are some compatibility issues (such as the issues I had with my Node 2i and PI7s). Glad it worked for you. Actually thinking of grabbing a Pixel next I think since it has aptX HD dual SIM (another thing Samsung cripples in the US), and all the 5G bands I need.



I already explained it above, it is not backwards compatible in the way it sounds from QUALCOMM, if your phone does not support aptX Adaptive but does support aptX HD it be aptX using aptx Adaptive buds unless like B&W they add the aptX HD codec also to the ear/headphones.


----------



## Tommy C

Juturna said:


> I’ve finally gone and gotten myself a pair of Devialet Geminis!
> 
> I realized that the included tips are less than great at least for my ears, I realized that when I tried so hard at liking them but felt like I was less than convinced.
> 
> ...



Congrats on the Devialet Geminis!

Although I never tried the Devialet Geminis, I have the CX 400BT which is basically a MTW2 sans the bells and whistles and they sound fantastic and sort of feel like any type of upgrade will be a side-grade to a different flavor but won't technically be better since it's still a TWS after all.


----------



## TK33 (Oct 10, 2021)

helmutcheese said:


> I already explained it above, it is not backwards compatible in the way it sounds from QUALCOMM, if your phone does not support aptX Adaptive but does support aptX HD it be aptX using aptx Adaptive buds unless like B&W they add the aptX HD codec also to the ear/headphones.


That's fine. I believe you. Doesn't change the fact that it did indeed work out for @clerkpalmer and he is able to enjoy his new cans via aptX HD, which, regardless of how it works, is what is important.  I am not going to argue with you as I am not an expert in this subject and am just stating what I observed.  If you do not like it, feel free to ignore me.

Back to my music I go.


----------



## helmutcheese (Oct 10, 2021)

Get a grip of the attitude It was from Lenovo Engineers, if he can get aptX HD then both items need to support it, that is why I was stuck on aptX on all my recent QC3040 aptX Adaptive earbuds (3 or 5 pairs now).

B&W have both aptX Adaptive and older aptX HD Codecs so I got aptX HD.

People say all kind of crap in here and on YT everyday that is totally wrong.


----------



## TK33 (Oct 10, 2021)

clerkpalmer said:


> So good news, these connected right to AptxHD on my Pixel despite the fact that the Yamaha literature only lists Aptx Adaptive.  As an aside, for anyone looking at cans, these things are pretty cool.  The 3D DSP is very effective - similar to the Mobius with multiple DSP Modes and head tracking.  I still haven't figured out why I need head tracking or whether I like it but I do like the DSP.  It adds some space to stereo music listening and it seems just as effective as spatial audio but without the proprietary nonsense.  There is an "Audio Room" setting I really like; I may have a hard time going back to regular 2D stereo after this.  Like a lot of ANC headphones, these have a lot of bass - in ways that you can't get out of TWS and which is much thicker than I am used to with my open and closed back planars.  I'd love to compare these to the H95 for craps and giggles.


Found this info on aptx.com, which I thought you might find interesting. Yamaha should probably put that on their product page:

https://www.aptx.com/products/yamaha-yh-l700a

"Compatibility

Backwards compatible with aptX & aptX HD"


----------



## VICosPhi

My Beoplay EQ acting weird already. The volume goes bonkers on its own as if there is a phantom touch to increase/decrease volume on its own while playing music. Also music pauses/plays back on its own. Anyone else have these issues with EQ?


----------



## scubaphish

erockg said:


> Anyone having a charge issue with their Devialet Gemini?  Driving me nuts.  Mine do not charge to 100% unless they are off the charger.  And, it's usually the right bud that won't charge all the way.  I think there's some sort of battery drain issue happening.


Do you mean the right bud won’t charge all the way while the case is charging?  I haven’t noticed that issue, but to be honest I think I often charge my case while buds are in my ears. I’ll try to experiment and report back


----------



## clerkpalmer

scubaphish said:


> Do you mean the right bud won’t charge all the way while the case is charging?  I haven’t noticed that issue, but to be honest I think I often charge my case while buds are in my ears. I’ll try to experiment and report back


My Gemini have a drain issue as well and it's definitely the right bud. I've had several instances where the right bud will be dead even though the case and left bud are 100 percent. I suppose it's time to discuss with support.


----------



## clerkpalmer (Oct 10, 2021)

TK33 said:


> Found this info on aptx.com, which I thought you might find interesting. Yamaha should probably put that on their product page:
> 
> https://www.aptx.com/products/yamaha-yh-l700a
> 
> ...


Nice find. I'll bet Yamaha doesn't even know this. We've seen this before in fact. Otherwise why would they push Adaptive over HD in the marketing materials? HD is certainly more available.  Edit - probably pushing Adaptive for the low latency rather than HD for SQ. I also blame Qualcomm for this. Too much fragmentation in these chipsets. It's confusing and the messaging isn't very clear.


----------



## NCUS

The waterfall of sound fidelity from high to low seems to be live music, loudspeakers, over ear headphones, IEMs, and then wireless. 

Maybe manufacturers just don't think AptX HD vs AptX adaptive is a big enough difference to push to the average user, particularly for wireless in ears, as I bet a huge percentage of users listen to these in noiser (both ambient sound levels and RF interference) environments.


----------



## erockg

scubaphish said:


> Do you mean the right bud won’t charge all the way while the case is charging?  I haven’t noticed that issue, but to be honest I think I often charge my case while buds are in my ears. I’ll try to experiment and report back


Yes, the right bud while the case is charging.  Then when I leave the buds in the case for a while, unused.  The right bud drains.  @clerkpalmer nailed it.  I bought the warranty for them, so maybe I'll give support a whirl at some point.  I had them in the case overnight and the case is at 93 and the buds 100.  So odd.


----------



## clerkpalmer

erockg said:


> Yes, the right bud while the case is charging.  Then when I leave the buds in the case for a while, unused.  The right bud drains.  @clerkpalmer nailed it.  I bought the warranty for them, so maybe I'll give support a whirl at some point.  I had them in the case overnight and the case is at 93 and the buds 100.  So odd.


They are pretty responsive as you know. I'm going to reach out and discuss. Problem is it's hard to replicate and of course only happens when I need them to work.


----------



## Juturna

clerkpalmer said:


> My Gemini have a drain issue as well and it's definitely the right bud. I've had several instances where the right bud will be dead even though the case and left bud are 100 percent. I suppose it's time to discuss with support.


Mine also have this issue. The right bud is almost at 15% lower battery level than the left one at any given point during my listening. 
I haven't had that issue so far though, that the right bud is completely dead, fingers crossed I don't have to deal with that...


----------



## erockg

clerkpalmer said:


> They are pretty responsive as you know. I'm going to reach out and discuss. Problem is it's hard to replicate and of course only happens when I need them to work.


A while back, Devialet suggested this reset process.  I tried it and it seems to have resolved the issue today.  Who knows!  Not holding my breath:

" I invite you to perform the following manipulation: 

- Remove and put the earphones one by one in the case.
- Close the case
- Press the button, and in the meantime
- Open/close the case twice in a row
- Release the button

Did the light turn flashing orange and then green for a moment?

If yes, the reset has been well done, and you will be able to put the box in pairing mode again.

Forget in your phone's Bluetooth settings any device linked to Gemini.

Then repair with Gemini L and pair with R.

This should solve the problem you are experiencing."


----------



## Juturna (Oct 10, 2021)

Also, to update on my Devialet Gemini experience so far:

After playing around with the EQ a bit and just in general trying to get used to them I've realized something, most of these will be comparisons with the MTW2's that I used as my daily driver before. Also had the Sony XM4's (which I didn't really like much at all) and SoundPeats H1, T2, Earfun Free Pro OE, some LG's, and i've demoed quite a few more, but the comparison will first and foremost be with the MTW2's.

- The sound is excellent when listening to more bass-focused genres like some electronic genres, or actually overall synth/electronic-based production, not only bass-focused genres. The MTW2's sound better when it comes to more acoustic, clean guitar-based and vocal-driven music. That's not to say that it sounds bad with any of these types of music, and it's POSSIBLE that I could EQ them further to closer match the sound that I get from the MTW2's (that's not to say that I want them to sound exactly like the MTW2's either, they have their own set of shortcomings), I've however found an EQ setting that I like for most music so I will try to stay with that for the time being.
I feel like I've had issues finding an EQ that retains the heavy bass but still brings enough clarity for vocals and more organic sounding production without being too harsh in other ways. But I'll keep trying! I love the EQ in comparison to the Senns.

*The good:*

- The call quality is surprisingly really good, my dad said that he heard me extremely well and that it was probably the best he had heard out of my earbuds that I've owned, only issue being wind, but that's an issue for most if not all earbuds at least to an extent, honestly.

- I like the ambient mode a lot too, it lets in a lot of sound and I can clearly have conversations with people when wearing them, and out of the earbuds I've owned I think it's the closest ones I've had to being able to feel like i'm listening to music from speakers in the background but still being able to hear stuff around me as if I wasn't wearing earbuds. Like it's not 100% and I think there are buds that are better at this than the Gemini's, but it's the best that i've tried.

- I was worried that they would be a pain pairing with my phone even though the previous issues. but they were really simple and fast to set up.


*The bad: *

- The case size is less than ideal, but I knew this before so i'm not that mad about it, however I find the sliding lid to be quite annoying because it slides open quite a bit by itself!

- I've had some pain in my ears from them so far which is not a thing with the MTW2's, but it could be a question of letting the ears get used to the earbuds.

- The included eartips were not great in my opinion. I don't fare well when it comes to eartips that are too shallow in fit, I need longer tips that give me a deeper fit.

- They're supposed to have wireless charging from what i've read, but I can't seem to get it to charge with my charging pad.


----------



## kolbo

@erockg I also have charging issues with the Geminis. I have reset them in the past but that did not help. 
I also still have ear pain with them. But they sound so much better than the XM4… though the XM4 are the most comfortable in my ears. 
What would you suggest that sounds like the Geminis but might be more comfortable? NuraTrue? EQ? And how are they in the ambient sound and anc department?


----------



## erockg

kolbo said:


> @erockg I also have charging issues with the Geminis. I have reset them in the past but that did not help.
> I also still have ear pain with them. But they sound so much better than the XM4… though the XM4 are the most comfortable in my ears.
> What would you suggest that sounds like the Geminis but might be more comfortable? NuraTrue? EQ? And how are they in the ambient sound and anc department?


That's a tough question.  I don't think ANYTHING sounds like the Gemini.  They are just awesome.  My order of preference these days would be: Gemini, EQ, Sennheiser CX Plus, Klipsch T5 ANC, Shure TW2, then of course my AirPods Pro for calls and Spatial Audio.  I sold my Nuratrue buds because of fit issues.  ANC order:  Gemini, Sennheiser, EQ, Klipsch.  All of them have good enough ambient sound for my use.  AirPods Pro have the best ambient mode.  The others are serviceable, but more known for audio quality.


----------



## scubaphish

Juturna said:


> Mine also have this issue. The right bud is almost at 15% lower battery level than the left one at any given point during my listening.
> I haven't had that issue so far though, that the right bud is completely dead, fingers crossed I don't have to deal with that...


I think that’s more a feature than a bug. I start at 100 each and by the time the left one is 20-something % the right side is 10.

https://help.devialet.com/hc/en-us/...buds-is-draining-more-battery-than-the-other-


----------



## kolbo

erockg said:


> That's a tough question.  I don't think ANYTHING sounds like the Gemini.  They are just awesome.  My order of preference these days would be: Gemini, EQ, Sennheiser CX Plus, Klipsch T5 ANC, Shure TW2, then of course my AirPods Pro for calls and Spatial Audio.  I sold my Nuratrue buds because of fit issues.  ANC order:  Gemini, Sennheiser, EQ, Klipsch.  All of them have good enough ambient sound for my use.  AirPods Pro have the best ambient mode.  The others are serviceable, but more known for audio quality.


I hear you. 
I can’t use the Aurpods as no matter what tips I tried they don’t stay in my ears. 
I use the 85t for calls and car (mute during calls is a huge help). But beyond audiobooks I just can’t use them for music. 
I have tried all tips I could think of with the devialet. Right now I’m using the Spiral Dots ++ MS and can listen for about an hour before pain start to mount.


----------



## erockg

kolbo said:


> I hear you.
> I can’t use the Aurpods as no matter what tips I tried they don’t stay in my ears.
> I use the 85t for calls and car (mute during calls is a huge help). But beyond audiobooks I just can’t use them for music.
> I have tried all tips I could think of with the devialet. Right now I’m using the Spiral Dots ++ MS and can listen for about an hour before pain start to mount.


I switched my tips on my APP and use ePro tips on them now with an adapter.  I had the 85t's and I just never seem to like the Jabra sound.  Devialet stock L tips work well for me.  Sounds like you have some fit issues with buds.  You might want to try the Klipsch.  They go deeper into your ears and might fit better.  It's all trial and error.  That's what makes the hobby fun


----------



## scubaphish

Juturna said:


> Also, to update on my Devialet Gemini experience so far:
> 
> After playing around with the EQ a bit and just in general trying to get used to them I've realized something, most of these will be comparisons with the MTW2's that I used as my daily driver before. Also had the Sony XM4's (which I didn't really like much at all) and SoundPeats H1, T2, Earfun Free Pro OE, some LG's, and i've demoed quite a few more, but the comparison will first and foremost be with the MTW2's.
> 
> ...


Sorry you’re having so many issues. Some good observations…fwiw, if it helps, I can confirm that wireless charging works for me.


----------



## cresny

scubaphish said:


> Sorry you’re having so many issues. Some good observations…fwiw, if it helps, I can confirm that wireless charging works for me.


I will concur the right vs. left drain is the current state of the Gemini. It's sometimes close, sometimes not so much, very occasionally Right straight to zero. There's definitely a bug here, but not crippling for me at least. However, they are reportedly aware of it, and given how game changing their last firmware drop was I think we have good reason to expect this to be fixed sometime in the future.


----------



## clerkpalmer (Oct 10, 2021)

kolbo said:


> @erockg I also have charging issues with the Geminis. I have reset them in the past but that did not help.
> I also still have ear pain with them. But they sound so much better than the XM4… though the XM4 are the most comfortable in my ears.
> What would you suggest that sounds like the Geminis but might be more comfortable? NuraTrue? EQ? And how are they in the ambient sound and anc department?


EQ or PI7 although it's harder to recommend the PI7 if you are an iphone user unless you also are willing to spring for the creative adapter and a CCK Kit


----------



## kolbo

clerkpalmer said:


> EQ or PI7 although it's harder to recommend the PI7 if you are an iphone user unless you also are willing to spring for the creative adapter and a CCK Kit


Thank you. I’m not interested in a large solution - I have my Andromedas for that. I’m a bit afraid to try the EQs as I read about a lot of issues.
But maybe this is the way to go…


----------



## clerkpalmer (Oct 10, 2021)

kolbo said:


> Thank you. I’m not interested in a large solution - I have my Andromedas for that. I’m a bit afraid to try the EQs as I read about a lot of issues.
> But maybe this is the way to go


Unfortunately there is a correlation here. You do need some volume to get the best sound. It's not always the case however. I think with the 2 year warranty the EQ is a safe bet.


----------



## BooleanBones

clerkpalmer said:


> Unfortunately there is a correlation here. You do need some volume to get the best sound. It's not always the case however. I think with the 2 year warranty thr EQ is a safe bet.


One additional note on the EQs, which the support tech could not explain, is their application can be selective on what it installs on. It would not install on my Android Walkman for some stupid reason. Was not a huge deal for me, but something to note.


----------



## FYLegend (Sep 13, 2022)

clerkpalmer said:


> You understood me.  I was complaining mostly about Samsung who doesn't support either Adaptive or HD. Given Samsung sells like 5 out of 10 Android phones worldwide, it seems like Adaptive isn't really that prevalent.  I do understand that other Android makers support it. As far as backwards compatibility, I'll see if that is right.  I have a pixel that supports Aptx HD so I'll see if I can force Aptx HD on them.  That would be cool and come to think of it, my PI7 does this as well.


Samsung typically uses a BT5.0 Murata Bluetooth/Wifi modem instead of Qualcomm on their phones (regardless of if you have Exynos or Qualcomm), including most of the S21 Series (which only support BT5.0 instead of taking advantage of Qualcomm's SoC supporting 5.2). Only the S21 Ultra has Bluetooth 5.2 and it appears to use a Samsung chip. I have no idea their reasoning but perhaps it's meant to work better with their own devices, and maybe implementing all Qualcomm features outside basic AptX may not be viable (though Huawei has AptX HD support on non-qualcomm devices). There was some discussion on the Samsung.eu forum where a dev support staff claimed AptX HD was too complicated to implement on the Note 9 and that they were considering implementing AptX Adaptive. However, Android 9 arrived without any of these features. It does seem like it is possible to add support unofficially (root probably needed though).

I'm more irritated they nerfed the SBC bitpool of all Galaxy Buds devices to 37, so they sound terrible if your device only supports SBC (Nintendo Switch, Windows 10). Fortunately Windows 11 Beta includes AAC but the system itself has some stability issues and not everyone is eligible for the update.

I'm rather disappointed by the performance of Scalable Codec on the Buds 2 with the Note 9. The treble distorts under certain conditions and the audio often speeds up and slows down. I had no such issues on the Buds+ but it is possible the new BT5.2 chip is not well-optimized for the older BT5.0 module of the Note 9. It seems to be worse when I have WiFi turned on, so the problem may have to do with interference. I haven't used LDAC devices in years but I recall my MDR-1000X would slow down my Wi-Fi speeds when using LDAC, but I never noticed drops in audio quality like this.

EDIT: It seems to me like these issues are more prevalent with Samsung Music than something like PowerAmp or YouTube music.

EDIT: S21 and S22 use Broadcom chips for Bluetooth and WiFi, not Samsung or Qualcomm.


----------



## lethe27

In market for a truly wireless iem. I'm considering B&O beoplay eq, B&W pi7, Sony xm4s and the klipsch McLaren. 

Any recommendations?


----------



## MaccaMacMan

I've had my L3P's for a day now, and for me, they are better than the L2P's in almost every way.

They are smaller, lighter and more comfortable to wear (I always got some ear fatigue with the L2P's).

The touch controls work well and are pretty configurable

Volume wise, they are slightly (15% ish) louder than the L2P's.

Sound quality wise, they are a good bit better. I'm using LDAC with my HearID profile and am picking up details in songs
I listen to regularly that the L2P's apparently have been muting a little (particularity high hats and symbols in today's material)

The ANC seems to work ok. One thing it does pretty much remove is the 'thud,thud' you get in your ears when running.

The only thing I don't like is the case, the tactile finish on the L2P's case is far better.


Cheers 

Macca


----------



## clerkpalmer

lethe27 said:


> In market for a truly wireless iem. I'm considering B&O beoplay eq, B&W pi7, Sony xm4s and the klipsch McLaren.
> 
> Any recommendations?


All good choices each have strengths and weaknesses. What's important to you? Pure sound quality? Anc? All arounder features? Ios or android?


----------



## lethe27 (Oct 10, 2021)

clerkpalmer said:


> All good choices each have strengths and weaknesses. What's important to you? Pure sound quality? Anc? All arounder features? Ios or android?


Sound quality is more important than ANC. I have an original V1 JH Layla as my main IEM, but looking for a wireless option when I'm out and about. I would also like for it to have decent/good battery life and mic quality. Android.


----------



## clerkpalmer

lethe27 said:


> Sound quality is more important than ANC. I have an original V1 JH Layla as my main IEM, but looking for a wireless option when I'm out and about. I would also like for it to have decent/good battery life and mic quality. Android.


If battery life is important, the pi7 is probably not a great choice.  Devialet Gemini or EQs are good choices. I like the Klipsch as well but I prefer the Gemini and EQ. The Sony is a great all arounder but most think the SQ is a step behind.


----------



## VICosPhi

My B&O EQs still act weird and increase/decrease volume on their own and I only get sound from either left or right buds at times. Also, mic quality on these during phone calls is horrible. Everyone says I sound VERY distant. I have to do a special dance and tilt my head a certain way to be heard properly. Going to exchange these under warranty hoping this is just a bad pair.

Placed a pre-order for Soundcore L3P based on hype from the YouTubers. Back go my trust Senny MTW2 in the meantime.


----------



## clerkpalmer

VICosPhi said:


> My B&O EQs still act weird and increase/decrease volume on their own and I only get sound from either left or right buds at times. Also, mic quality on these during phone calls is horrible. Everyone says I sound VERY distant. I have to do a special dance and tilt my head a certain way to be heard properly. Going to exchange these under warranty hoping this is just a bad pair.
> 
> Placed a pre-order for Soundcore L3P based on hype from the YouTubers. Back go my trust Senny MTW2 in the meantime.


Bummer. Yeah and mine crapped the bed too. Perhaps I should stop recommending them.


----------



## VICosPhi

clerkpalmer said:


> Bummer. Yeah and mine crapped the bed too. Perhaps I should stop recommending them.


Sorry to hear, what issues are you seeing with your EQs?


----------



## Tommy C

VICosPhi said:


> My B&O EQs still act weird and increase/decrease volume on their own and I only get sound from either left or right buds at times. Also, mic quality on these during phone calls is horrible. Everyone says I sound VERY distant. I have to do a special dance and tilt my head a certain way to be heard properly. Going to exchange these under warranty hoping this is just a bad pair.
> 
> Placed a pre-order for Soundcore L3P based on hype from the YouTubers. Back go my trust Senny MTW2 in the meantime.


Interesting. I had these same issues but with the CA MT. Volume randomly goes up or down,  poor call quality at times with people saying I sounded far from my phone.
Different TWS but exact same behavior.


----------



## clerkpalmer

VICosPhi said:


> Sorry to hear, what issues are you seeing with your EQs?


Just a dead left earbud. RMA baby.


----------



## clerkpalmer

Tommy C said:


> Interesting. I had these same issues but with the CA MT. Volume randomly goes up or down,  poor call quality at times with people saying I sounded far from my phone.
> Different TWS but exact same behavior.


The CA MT have a poltergeist living in them. Mine do bizarre crap all the time.


----------



## Tommy C

clerkpalmer said:


> The CA MT have a poltergeist living in them. Mine do bizarre crap all the time.


True that. Was super annoying and I ended up returning them as they had just too many issues as I just needed something reliable to mess around with and it just wasn't that. 
I hope the next version will be _much better_ and more _reliable_.


----------



## VICosPhi

Tommy C said:


> Interesting. I had these same issues but with the CA MT. Volume randomly goes up or down,  poor call quality at times with people saying I sounded far from my phone.
> Different TWS but exact same behavior.


Interesting. I wonder if both B&O and CA source their control software thru same vendor.


----------



## Tommy C

VICosPhi said:


> Interesting. I wonder if both B&O and CA source their control software thru same vendor.


With the CA MT at first I thought it was a mic issue but it wasn't a hardware issue as I could have had back to back calls with one caller saying I sounded like I'm in a subway tunnel while the other said I sounded OK. Tested it myself and got similar results so figured that most issues were probably software related.


----------



## bladefd

Tommy C said:


> With the CA MT at first I thought it was a mic issue but it wasn't a hardware issue as I could have had back to back calls with one caller saying I sounded like I'm in a subway tunnel while the other said I sounded OK. Tested it myself and got similar results so figured that most issues were probably software related.


You didn't have any charging issues with it in the time you had it? I recall you were trying to figure out whether to keep it or send it back few weeks back.


----------



## Juturna

Any tips on... well, tips for the Devialet Gemini? I feel like my enjoyment of them is being held back by my tips, I've tried comply foams and they were a no-go, the included tips are OK after some reevaluating but I feel like they somehow lack a bit of clarity with them, especially in the mids! Any suggestions?


----------



## Tommy C

bladefd said:


> You didn't have any charging issues with it in the time you had it? I recall you were trying to figure out whether to keep it or send it back few weeks back.


Good memory. I had many other issues but no charging issues as long as the buds were sitting properly but those contact/ charging pins are so thin that I can see how after taking it out and putting it back over time may cause charging malfunction. 
I took your advice and @scubaphish who knocked some sense into me and ended up returning them as I was spending way too much time trying to figure them out.


----------



## highlightshadow

MaccaMacMan said:


> I've had my L3P's for a day now, and for me, they are better than the L2P's in almost every way.
> 
> They are smaller, lighter and more comfortable to wear (I always got some ear fatigue with the L2P's).
> 
> ...


Yeah. The case is a really slippery finish. Good for pockets but very smooth when trying to open.
I've switched tips to Feaulle H370 and find them working better for me


----------



## BigZ12

Juturna said:


> Any tips on... well, tips for the Devialet Gemini? I feel like my enjoyment of them is being held back by my tips, I've tried comply foams and they were a no-go, the included tips are OK after some reevaluating but I feel like they somehow lack a bit of clarity with them, especially in the mids! Any suggestions?


Which Comply Foams?


----------



## erockg

clerkpalmer said:


> The CA MT have a poltergeist living in them. Mine do bizarre crap all the time.


Who ya gonna call?  I returned mine ages ago.  They just had so many issues, but this was before the many firmware updates.  I do recall I loved the sound.


----------



## erockg

clerkpalmer said:


> If battery life is important, the pi7 is probably not a great choice.  Devialet Gemini or EQs are good choices. I like the Klipsch as well but I prefer the Gemini and EQ. The Sony is a great all arounder but most think the SQ is a step behind.


@lethe27 I'd throw the Sennheiser CX Plus in this mix.  I have all the above too and LOVE them, but for the price, the new Sennies truly hold up and  have zero issues.  Pretty impressed with then.  I'd like if they wireless charging but for what I paid, they're well worth the price.


----------



## clerkpalmer

erockg said:


> Who ya gonna call?  I returned mine ages ago.  They just had so many issues, but this was before the many firmware updates.  I do recall I loved the sound.


Great fun sound.  Respond well to EQ.  When they came out, I think they were class leading for the price/features but man stuff moves fast in this space.  I'd still recommend them but there's an ocean of quality TWS out there for $100 to $150.


----------



## cresny

erockg said:


> @lethe27 I'd throw the Sennheiser CX Plus in this mix.  I have all the above too and LOVE them, but for the price, the new Sennies truly hold up and  have zero issues.  Pretty impressed with then.  I'd like if they wireless charging but for what I paid, they're well worth the price.


I'd hang on a couple weeks or so to see how those new buds by ex-Sennheiser engineer Axel Krell (?) sound, especially at $200.


----------



## cresny

Juturna said:


> Any tips on... well, tips for the Devialet Gemini? I feel like my enjoyment of them is being held back by my tips, I've tried comply foams and they were a no-go, the included tips are OK after some reevaluating but I feel like they somehow lack a bit of clarity with them, especially in the mids! Any suggestions?


I had Spin-fit cp-360s on mine and they sounded good. These might be a good choice given some of the fit issues you've described, because of the way they are designed to bend at the stem.


----------



## erockg

cresny said:


> I'd hang on a couple weeks or so to see how those new buds by ex-Sennheiser engineer Axel Krell (?) sound, especially at $200.


They look _huge_ though!  Could just be the pics on their site and a really small model.  For all those interested, even though it's been discussed already:  https://grellaudio.com

These days, I'm starting to get wary of buying direct from a manufacturer.  Whenever I need to return or RMA, they just take forever to refund or exchange early on.  Less hassle to hit Best Buy or Amazon (famous last words).  Got the CX Plus at BB for $126 after a coupon and Rewardzone credit.  I have 45 days to decide.


----------



## Tommy C

erockg said:


> Who ya gonna call?  I returned mine ages ago.  They just had so many issues, but this was before the many firmware updates.  I do recall I loved the sound.


I had the latest firmware but even then they had gremlins. On top of that I found the sound to be too bassy for me no matter what I did. Usually I like some bass but these were too much and I was struggling to figure out the fit. On the flip side I now have the CX 400 and much prefer the sound and they work flawlessly. I miss ambient mode at times but it’s not a deal breaker.


----------



## bladefd

erockg said:


> They look _huge_ though!  Could just be the pics on their site and a really small model.  For all those interested, even though it's been discussed already:  https://grellaudio.com
> 
> These days, I'm starting to get wary of buying direct from a manufacturer.  Whenever I need to return or RMA, they just take forever to refund or exchange early on.  Less hassle to hit Best Buy or Amazon (famous last words).  Got the CX Plus at BB for $126 after a coupon and Rewardzone credit.  I have 45 days to decide.


Tbh after dealing with the MT, I'm never buying a tws on release. Best to let other people be the Guinea pigs and test on my behalf lol


----------



## cresny

erockg said:


> They look _huge_ though!  Could just be the pics on their site and a really small model.  For all those interested, even though it's been discussed already:  https://grellaudio.com
> 
> These days, I'm starting to get wary of buying direct from a manufacturer.  Whenever I need to return or RMA, they just take forever to refund or exchange early on.  Less hassle to hit Best Buy or Amazon (famous last words).  Got the CX Plus at BB for $126 after a coupon and Rewardzone credit.  I have 45 days to decide.


Yep they sure do look huge! Sorta like two cast iron skillets slapped on top of some normal size buds. But maybe it's for a reason. Looking forward to seeing how they sound.


----------



## jant71

cresny said:


> Yep they sure do look huge! Sorta like two cast iron skillets slapped on top of some normal size buds. But maybe it's for a reason. Looking forward to seeing how they sound.


Seems partly for the gesture controls so you can touch and swipe w/o a stem. Need to see how well it works. Early report says it is very like the Senn for sound but the ANC seems to be better. A CX Plus at the $126 is a safer choice and could be the better value and right choice depending on need.


----------



## erockg

bladefd said:


> Tbh after dealing with the MT, I'm never buying a tws on release. Best to let other people be the Guinea pigs and test on my behalf lol


I say this now, but I'm going to stick with the big guns and not the smaller companies on first gen products.  That said, I know I'll totally do the opposite!


----------



## erockg

cresny said:


> Yep they sure do look huge! Sorta like two cast iron skillets slapped on top of some normal size buds. But maybe it's for a reason. Looking forward to seeing how they sound.


You know, if you can fry and egg on them while listening... I'm ALL IN.


----------



## nijfi

MaccaMacMan said:


> I've had my L3P's for a day now, and for me, they are better than the L2P's in almost every way.
> 
> They are smaller, lighter and more comfortable to wear (I always got some ear fatigue with the L2P's).
> 
> ...


I've yet to pull the trigger on a pair of true wireless earbuds. Never used wireless headphones/buds before in fact.

I'm quite interested in making the L3P's my first attempt, as they tick a lot of boxes. Particularly LDAC support and at a sensible price point. I'll be using them with my Sony NW ZX300, although main listening there will still be wired.

My main requirement is sound quality and comfort, then the ANC. Not interested in other features as will rarely, if ever, use with a phone.

Massive hype about them on YouTube!, but the two videos I've seen that do binaural testing have them sounding very thin compared to Sony MX4's and Sennheiser CX (appreciate there's a big price difference with the MX4'S).  Not sure how much I can read into those tests though. Have no idea of the sound settings used, only that it was playing a lossless file.

Will you be leaving yours on the HeadID setting, or have you played around with other sound settings or EQ yet?  If you've played around, just how customisable is the sound?

Sorry for the questions already as appreciate you've only just got yours. But any feedback when you've played around a bit would be very much appreciated.

Cheers.


----------



## pitch_black

Got my replacement EQ from B&O today. What concerns me a little bit, the SN# was even lower then my original dead one (old SN 33961466), new is 33958xxx.

Positive, the case is flawless this time. Nice sound closing it, snug fit, no overlapping edge.
Positive and nice touch, the warranty got reset to 14. October 2023 - that’s unusual here at least in Switzerland, usually the original warranty runs on.

Negative; it seems the pop/clip is still there even a little bit more prominent then in the last pair or maybe it’s just my imagination.
Won’t bother me too much, as I only hear is (so far) under unusual eq settings.
Also at some point I’ll change color to the anthracite/black version.

What SN# (first 5 numbers) had your broken and replacements?


----------



## VICosPhi

nijfi said:


> I've yet to pull the trigger on a pair of true wireless earbuds. Never used wireless headphones/buds before in fact.
> 
> I'm quite interested in making the L3P's my first attempt, as they tick a lot of boxes. Particularly LDAC support and at a sensible price point. I'll be using them with my Sony NW ZX300, although main listening there will still be wired.
> 
> ...


So much hype for Soundcore L3P on YouTube but yes the audio samples sound very tinny as compared to Sennheisers so not sure why the reviewers think these are better. I preordered these based on hype. The mic does seem pretty good on these though for phone calls.


----------



## erockg

pitch_black said:


> Got my replacement EQ from B&O today. What concerns me a little bit, the SN# was even lower then my original dead one (old SN 33961466), new is 33958xxx.
> 
> Positive, the case is flawless this time. Nice sound closing it, snug fit, no overlapping edge.
> Positive and nice touch, the warranty got reset to 14. October 2023 - that’s unusual here at least in Switzerland, usually the original warranty runs on.
> ...


Hmm.  Let me see if I can find mine.  I've had 3 different pairs.  One from B&O that had the pop/click issue.  One (sn34193) from the B&O store that had a right bud charge issue.  #3 (sn 34193) is the store replacement and I've had zero issue for weeks.

Found the sn from the store bought ones, can't find the one for the one I bought online yet.


----------



## nijfi

VICosPhi said:


> So much hype for Soundcore L3P on YouTube but yes the audio samples sound very tinny as compared to Sennheisers so not sure why the reviewers think these are better. I preordered these based on hype. The mic does seem pretty good on these though for phone calls.


Regarding the hype. I didn't see many reviews specifically talking about the LDAC support for very long, if at all. That's a bit of a concern.

I've yet to watch a bad review, or read one (one review did only give them 3 stars). I get the feeling though that most reviewers will be listening via their phones on something like Spotify, although the sound tests did specifically use lossless files.

I'll be listening to FLAC 16 and some 24 on my Zx300. Hence the LDAC support pricking my ears up. I accept wireless won't be competing with wired, but I'm wondering if I can get 'decent enough' (whatever that means) sound quality to go with the convenience at that price point? If I can, then I'm all in, as not really too keen in going to the price of the MX4's and equivalent for wireless.

I'm tempted to just go ahead and order a pair too.
Looking at this thread, seems sellers do accept returns on earbuds if you don't get on with them. I was wondering if earbuds have a no returns policy you see, considering they would have been in your ears?, obviously lol.


----------



## VICosPhi (Oct 11, 2021)

nijfi said:


> Regarding the hype. I didn't see many reviews specifically talking about the LDAC support for very long, if at all. That's a bit of a concern.
> 
> I've yet to watch a bad review, or read one (one review did only give them 3 stars). I get the feeling though that most reviewers will be listening via their phones on something like Spotify, although the sound tests did specifically use lossless files.
> 
> ...


If sound quality is the most important factor, Sennheiser MTW2 are really good. I know LDAC is really good to have, but I wouldn't narrow my selection based on LDAC. From current set of LDAC buds, none of them sound as good as the APTX buds from Sennheiser/B&O.

These MTW2 nearly match the SQ on my UM MEST I had. Bang and Olufsen EQ sound even fuller than MTW2 but they have QC issues imo. Lots of positive feedback on Devialet Geminis here as well. I also tried Edifier Neobuds Pro and they sound good but nowhere near what MTW2 or EQ sound. As for returns, I think it depends on your country but most places allow you 7 to 14 days return at minimum.


----------



## Tommy C

nijfi said:


> I've yet to pull the trigger on a pair of true wireless earbuds. Never used wireless headphones/buds before in fact.
> 
> I'm quite interested in making the L3P's my first attempt, as they tick a lot of boxes. Particularly LDAC support and at a sensible price point. I'll be using them with my Sony NW ZX300, although main listening there will still be wired.
> 
> ...


Agreed.  I had the Liberty 2 pro Plus which is the upgraded version with LDAC support and ambient. The highs were definitely thin and the mids were a bit too weak for my taste. Keep in mind the use the balance armature driver the mids and highs accordingly to one review (can’t remember which one) so that explains why they are rather thin sounding. 
HearID was underwhelming for me as the suggested eq was way too bright but it can be used as a base to tweak it even further. The biggest selling point of these and and the previous gens is the level of customization that you can achieve with with the eq which is very responsive. 
My Sennheiser CX 400BT have this pretty basic app and and the eq is nowhere near being as good as the Soundcore app. 
for $150 I don’t think you can go wrong with them really with all the features that your getting but for me I feel like I prefer the Sennheiser sound signature better. 
If you don’t think you need all these features the Sennheiser CX, CX Plus and the (discontinued?) CX 400BT might be better options for you.


----------



## nijfi

VICosPhi said:


> If sound quality is the most important factor, Sennheiser MTW2 are really good. I know LDAC is really good to have, but I wouldn't narrow my selection based on LDAC. From current set of LDAC buds, none of them sound as good as the APTX buds from Sennheiser/B&O.
> 
> These MTW2 nearly match the SQ on my UM MEST I had. Bang and Olufsen EQ sound even fuller than MTW2 but they have QC issues imo. Lots of positive feedback on Devialet Geminis here as well. I also tried Edifier Neobuds Pro and they sound good but nowhere near what MTW2 or EQ sound. As for returns, I think it depends on your country but most places allow you 7 to 14 days return at minimum.


Thanks for the suggestions. The MTW2 and Devialet are more than I really want to pay. The Edifiers sound interesting though.

Basically I'm trying to get the best I can on the cheap, which of course is cheating, as generally you get what you pay for.  I just don't want to dive into higher prices on wireless, as much as anything, because I'm not sure on the technology and longevity yet. Interesting seeing the QC you and others have mentioned in the B&O's for starters. 

I'll take on board your advice about not necessarily getting stuck on codecs too as I do a bit more exploring.
 Thanks.


----------



## nijfi

Tommy C said:


> Agreed.  I had the Liberty 2 pro Plus which is the upgraded version with LDAC support and ambient. The highs were definitely thin and the mids were a bit too weak for my taste. Keep in mind the use the balance armature driver the mids and highs accordingly to one review (can’t remember which one) so that explains why they are rather thin sounding.
> HearID was underwhelming for me as the suggested eq was way too bright but it can be used as a base to tweak it even further. The biggest selling point of these and and the previous gens is the level of customization that you can achieve with with the eq which is very responsive.
> My Sennheiser CX 400BT have this pretty basic app and and the eq is nowhere near being as good as the Soundcore app.
> for $150 I don’t think you can go wrong with them really with all the features that your getting but for me I feel like I prefer the Sennheiser sound signature better.
> If you don’t think you need all these features the Sennheiser CX, CX Plus and the (discontinued?) CX 400BT might be better options for you.


Thanks for the feedback.

Yes, I saw a couple of reviewers say the HearID gave them an overly bright sound to their ears.

I suppose if I can't find a preset that suits me then at least with the eq being as responsive as you say then I should be able to find something to suit. They won't be for overly serious listening anyway, just out and about and pottering around really, hence the reluctance to spend too much.

Thanks. I'll also have a look again at the Sennheiser's you mention. This is the trouble with internet buying. I don't have any shops locally that I can go in and test different pairs.


----------



## bladefd

erockg said:


> I say this now, but I'm going to stick with the big guns and not the smaller companies on first gen products.  That said, I know I'll totally do the opposite!


Good!! I will let you buy first with your own money before I consider it lol


----------



## CocaCola15 (Oct 11, 2021)

Amazon 30-returns, so why not give the L3P a listen? I had the LP2s, but found the treble too hot for my tastes. I am, however, a fan of the Q30 over-ear BT phones from Soundcore. For TW, I'm still stuck on the CA M1+ and so far, the more expensive TW phones I have heard were sold or returned because I prefer the M1+ with foam tips. Call it aging ear syndrome I guess.


----------



## erockg

bladefd said:


> Good!! I will let you buy first with your own money before I consider it lol


I accept this challenge.


----------



## Darkestred

VICosPhi said:


> So much hype for Soundcore L3P on YouTube but yes the audio samples sound very tinny as compared to Sennheisers so not sure why the reviewers think these are better. I preordered these based on hype. The mic does seem pretty good on these though for phone calls.




i thought the opposite for the mic.  Lot of sibilants and nasally.  We shall see!


----------



## helmutcheese (Oct 12, 2021)

My L 3 pro have started to talk in a foreign language/Asian accent when I connect/disconnect from a device.

*EDIT:* Forgot to add it is only in the right bud, the left bud is the normal tones, it sounds like she is saying "leonardo da vinci"  😕

Also at times the controls stop working and only fix is to put them in the charge case and then they are ok again.

Started to read some have sibilance (I had on day one but day 2 for some reason they sound more bassy but still had too much treble (they got  a 166MB app update on 10th so could be changes) and some think the Ambient mode weak well it is and TBH there is next to no real different for me from the 3 modes as IMO the ANC is poor.

The plastic part hurts my ears after a while wearing them

The ANC and especially the Ambient Mode (sounded real not like a robot) on the Jlabs air ANC was one of the best I have heard but other issue like comfort or lack of meant they had to go back.


----------



## Juturna

Are the Status Between Pros worth it, according to you who own/have owned it? Just saw somebody selling them for decently cheap (but not super cheap) close to where i'm at and i'm thinking if I should pick them up or if its entirely unnecessary for somebody who owns the Devialet Gemini and MTW2's, lol.


----------



## CocaCola15 (Oct 12, 2021)

Juturna said:


> Are the Status Between Pros worth it, according to you who own/have owned it? Just saw somebody selling them for decently cheap (but not super cheap) close to where i'm at and i'm thinking if I should pick them up or if its entirely unnecessary for somebody who owns the Devialet Gemini and MTW2's, lol.


I own a pair, got them from Indiegogo for $75, the very early bird special. I have them in my ears right now and I have to say, IMHO, they sound fantastic. I have not heard the Gemini or the MTW2s (but I didn't care much for the MTW1, or whatever the first iteration was called).

For the BPs, I use a bit of bass boost via the Kaiser Audio app, playing a mix of genres and formats (FLAC, MP3@320) and I think they sound great. Again, this is just my view, which is reflected by some, not by others. For $75, it's an amazing deal. At their current price of $149, still a decent value, however they don't offer much in the way of customization (no app) and certainly no ANC. I use the largest of the silicone tips and I do have to fiddle with them a bit. They don't need a deep seating, just enough to seal outside sounds, so it can take a bit of finagling. Once in place, they are pretty secure. The main hassle is getting them in and out of the case, but you can master it. The lid feels shaky, for sure, and closes way too easily. Small price for great sound.

I haven't used them for calls, just for walking about or working around the house. Having said all that, can they compete with those $250-$400 TW options? I have had the new Sonys (returned, not worth the MSRP to me), and a bunch of other TWs phones too numerous to mention. I have stayed away from the higher priced TW IEMs because of the battery death issue and I found a sweet spot with the BPs and the Cambridge Audio Melomania 1+ using foam tips (they are $99.95 on Amazon, down from $139 MSRP). Amazon reviews are mixed, but I am on the 5-star side of the fence.

Hope that helps. Can the BPs outperform the type of TW IEMs you mentioned, I don't know. Do I favor them over some higher priced TWs I have heard, yes. Of course, the $75 pricetag can't be ignored.

Of course, curiosity got the best of me and I have the SoundCore L3Ps coming Friday via Amazon. They will have to blow me away to stay put.


----------



## BigZ12

Ref my Devialet Gemini:
"After carrying out the necessary tests with the customer, I confirm that the product is defective (because of a construction issue, the left earbud has pop sound in anc mode) and must be exchanged for a new unit according to the store's warranty conditions."


----------



## erockg

Not remarkable, but I guess we'll see: https://gizmodo.com/v-modas-first-wireless-earbuds-include-an-optional-wire-1847846318


----------



## jant71

erockg said:


> Not remarkable, but I guess we'll see: https://gizmodo.com/v-modas-first-wireless-earbuds-include-an-optional-wire-1847846318


I like the writer of the article. Love when those not in the know write about this stuff.

Like the wire is so they are "harder to lose" and 6mm drivers automatically means they don't offer the best bass performance. 

I like the idea to have multiple ways to fit and use them. That behind the neck cable is just too long though. Not an actual cable use for when you run out of battery it seems. At least they do aptX adaptive and the custom shields can be fun. No features it seems as far as fast charge, ANC, Ambient or auto pause sensors etc. Better sound good for $170 
https://www.v-moda.com/us/en/products/hexamove-pro


----------



## erockg

jant71 said:


> I like the writer of the article. Love when those not in the know write about this stuff.
> 
> Like the wire is so they are "harder to lose" and 6mm drivers automatically means they don't offer the best bass performance.
> 
> ...


I would never use all those extra cables.  I like that V-Moda is getting in the game, but without ANC and Transparency Mode, probably a pass for me.  I live off those two features.  I have to admit, the Sennheiser CX Plus I have really do shine.  For $179 you get all the above and more.


----------



## jant71

erockg said:


> I would never use all those extra cables.  I like that V-Moda is getting in the game, but without ANC and Transparency Mode, probably a pass for me.  I live off those two features.  I have to admit, the Sennheiser CX Plus I have really do shine.  For $179 you get all the above and more.


That shape certainly looks like it needs the fins and the hooks could be good for sports and at the gym. I like a leash to just hang the buds around the neck and not have a pod. Cool if you could use the leash and ditch the case at times but 6 hours isn't that long though. Better for 10+ hours to be able to ditch the case.  

Another one that is wait and see first time out. The SQ, how well does the touch work with the shields and the scheme. Of course for first timers that don't mention anything about the ever important antenna design, how is the range and stability of the connection?


----------



## clerkpalmer

erockg said:


> I would never use all those extra cables.  I like that V-Moda is getting in the game, but without ANC and Transparency Mode, probably a pass for me.  I live off those two features.  I have to admit, the Sennheiser CX Plus I have really do shine.  For $179 you get all the above and more.


Vmoda can definitely tune an earbud. These look like too little too late in terms of tech but I'll bet they sound decent to very good.


----------



## erockg

clerkpalmer said:


> Vmoda can definitely tune an earbud. These look like too little too late in terms of tech but I'll bet they sound decent to very good.


One would hope.  You know, I had their ANC cans and I so very much wanted them to be amazing.  Sound was great, but everything else was a fail IMO.  Too many better ANC options.  Hope they prove me wrong with the TWS buds.  I always love their design.


----------



## clerkpalmer

erockg said:


> One would hope.  You know, I had their ANC cans and I so very much wanted them to be amazing.  Sound was great, but everything else was a fail IMO.  Too many better ANC options.  Hope they prove me wrong with the TWS buds.  I always love their design.


Me too.  Vmoda was my go to "wired" bluetooth for the gym for years.  Always sounded better than the big name offerings from Sony/Bose etc.  I'm mildly interested but my head tells me to skip these even though it's been like 14 whole days since I've bought a TWS.


----------



## erockg

clerkpalmer said:


> Me too.  Vmoda was my go to "wired" bluetooth for the gym for years.  Always sounded better than the big name offerings from Sony/Bose etc.  I'm mildly interested but my head tells me to skip these even though it's been like 14 whole days since I've bought a TWS.


HAHA!  There really needs to be a forum to deal with our TWS addictions.  This week I'm just obsessed with scoring my new Apple Watch.  Sad.  If those Vmoda buds had ANC and Transparency, I'd have preordered them already!


----------



## jant71

clerkpalmer said:


> Vmoda can definitely tune an earbud. These look like too little too late in terms of tech but I'll bet they sound decent to very good.





erockg said:


> One would hope.  You know, I had their ANC cans and I so very much wanted them to be amazing.  Sound was great, but everything else was a fail IMO.  Too many better ANC options.  Hope they prove me wrong with the TWS buds.  I always love their design.



Nearly the same level of company. I always go back to when I was the Fender wireless guinea pig. You could probably say with the same amount of conviction that you would think they would do a good job. It is really the others things that they will most likely eff up. Unless they took so long so they didn't. Can't trust it w/o a solid return policy lol!


----------



## erockg

jant71 said:


> Nearly the same level of company. I always go back to when I was the Fender wireless guinea pig. You could probably say with the same amount of conviction that you would think they would do a good job. It is really the others things that they will most likely eff up. Unless they took so long so they didn't. Can't trust it w/o a solid return policy lol!


100%.  Maybe better to wait until Amazon or Best Buy sell them.  Easier returns.  Sort of like the B&W PI7s.  I waited for ages to get those and nothing but issues with Bluetooth for me and then the mediocre battery life ruined my experience.  I never mind paying a good, even high price, but when things go bad, it's mind-boggling.


----------



## ValSuki

Ive been wanting to get into TWS' for a while but my only real experience using them has been the QCY T5. I remember a reviewer (crinacle) give these great praise for their price to performance and when using them, they sounded pretty mediocre and I disliked their sound. Cheap? Yes and they felt and sounded cheap. Ive been curious though about current TWS in the higher price range and wanted to ask, what is everyones favourite sounding TWS. I really dont care much for features in them but I would like to know.


----------



## Tommy C (Oct 12, 2021)

ValSuki said:


> Ive been wanting to get into TWS' for a while but my only real experience using them has been the QCY T5. I remember a reviewer (crinacle) give these great praise for their price to performance and when using them, they sounded pretty mediocre and I disliked their sound. Cheap? Yes and they felt and sounded cheap. Ive been curious though about current TWS in the higher price range and wanted to ask, what is everyones favourite sounding TWS. I really dont care much for features in them but I would like to know.



On the cheap, I really like the Fiil T1XS.
Mid tier on the cheap side I like the Sennheiser CX 400BT and Jabra. CX and the CX Plus should be good too and the Soundcore L2P+ is nice too but there is the new model that I haven't tried.
High tier I had demoed many several years ago but I choose not to invest in high tier unless they are friggin' amazing as I see TWS as easily disposable after 2 years.


----------



## dweaver

ValSuki said:


> Ive been wanting to get into TWS' for a while but my only real experience using them has been the QCY T5. I remember a reviewer (crinacle) give these great praise for their price to performance and when using them, they sounded pretty mediocre and I disliked their sound. Cheap? Yes and they felt and sounded cheap. Ive been curious though about current TWS in the higher price range and wanted to ask, what is everyones favourite sounding TWS. I really dont care much for features in them but I would like to know.


I try to buy when pricing is well below full retail and stick with relatively known brands. I won't pay much over $200 CAD as these devices definitely wear out battery wise. 

My current favorites are Technics EAH-AZ70 ($199Cad), Samsung Galaxy Buds Pro ($187Cad)with the Sony WF-1000XM3 ($189Cad) in a distant third for higher price models. Out of these 3 the Samsung and AZ70 have worked without issue, the 1000XM3 has disconnect issues. ANC goes 1000XM3 > AZ70 > Gbud Pro.

I also own the Status Between Pro and think it's worth while if your OK having less features like ANC. I also like the Anker Soundcore L2P and think the new L3P might just hit the sweet spot for features and sound quality.


----------



## scubaphish

ValSuki said:


> Ive been wanting to get into TWS' for a while but my only real experience using them has been the QCY T5. I remember a reviewer (crinacle) give these great praise for their price to performance and when using them, they sounded pretty mediocre and I disliked their sound. Cheap? Yes and they felt and sounded cheap. Ive been curious though about current TWS in the higher price range and wanted to ask, what is everyones favourite sounding TWS. I really dont care much for features in them but I would like to know.


I don’t own many pair of TWS, but as a new glasses wearer I wanted to find a TWS replacement for my B&W PX over ears. I bought and tried the Sony XM4, Sennheiser MTW2, Klipsch T5 II ANC, Master and Dynamic MW08, Melomania Touch, B&W PI7 and PI5, and Devialet Gemini. The Gemini won the bake off. I love the sound so much. 

I also have a pair of Apple AirPods Pro I use mostly for calls and the like. They sound ok, but wanted something more.


----------



## bladefd (Oct 12, 2021)

Are new earbuds usually announced at CES? I know it's usually the first week of January. Less than 3 months away.

I don't see anything compelling with the current generation tbh without spending an arm and a leg (still crappy battery life even at those crazy price ranges). Only the Gemini seem close to being it, maybe the MTW2. Hoping for announcements for new stuff.


----------



## TK33 (Oct 13, 2021)

ValSuki said:


> Ive been wanting to get into TWS' for a while but my only real experience using them has been the QCY T5. I remember a reviewer (crinacle) give these great praise for their price to performance and when using them, they sounded pretty mediocre and I disliked their sound. Cheap? Yes and they felt and sounded cheap. Ive been curious though about current TWS in the higher price range and wanted to ask, what is everyones favourite sounding TWS. I really dont care much for features in them but I would like to know.


In chronological order, I have Galaxy Buds (wife still uses and keeps in the diaper bag), Senn MTW (original), MW07 Go (returned and bought again because of battery issue), JBL Reflect Flow (exchanged once in a Harman store due to driver flex), 2 pairs of Galaxy Buds Live (1 was replaced under warranty), B&W PI7 (replaced under warranty twice before I got a working set), and most recently the Shure TW2 with my trusty SE846.

Ever since I got the TW2, it (with my Shure SE846) has been my go to for wireless music with the PI7s still getting some use because the TW2 can be a bit annoying when the mask gets tangled in it (my two favorites so far). I don't think regular TWS can compete with the adapter (like TW2) + favorite IEM but I also really enjoy the SQ and signature of the PI7.  Galaxy Buds Live are great for calls and everything else is sitting in a box in my closet or the aforementioned diaper bag but still work fine.  My desire to buy something new always seems to render these things "disposable" even before any real battery degradation occurs.

I think next up for me are the Galaxy Buds Pro or Buds 2 (still undecided but I need to spend my $100 Samsung preorder credit) and am still hoping a Senn MTW3 comes out.  I really enjoyed the MTW but the MTW2 was just never a compelling enough upgrade for me.  The MTW2 have been getting heavily discounted recently so that could be a good option.  Also still looking forward to impressions on the Jabra Elite 7s when they start shipping this week.

With TWS, I recommend buying from somewhere with a good return policy since everyone's ears are different and they don't always work for everyone (fit and preferred sound signature). Also, as you can see from discussions in this thread, QC issues seem to be the norm (or I just have really really bad luck).


----------



## Tommy C

TK33 said:


> In chronological order, I have Galaxy Buds (wife still uses and keeps in the diaper bag), Senn MTW (original), MW07 Go (returned and bought again because of battery issue), JBL Reflect Flow (exchanged once in a Harman store due to driver flex), 2 pairs of Galaxy Buds Live (1 was replaced under warranty), B&W PI7 (replaced under warranty twice before I got a working set), and most recently the Shure TW2 with my trusty SE846.
> 
> Ever since I got the TW2, it (with my Shure SE846) has been my go to for wireless music with the PI7s still getting some use because the TW2 can be a bit annoying when the mask gets tangled in it (my two favorites so far). I don't think regular TWS can compete with the adapter (like TW2) + favorite IEM but I also really enjoy the SQ and signature of the PI7.  Galaxy Buds Live are great for calls and everything else is sitting in a box in my closet or the aforementioned diaper bag but still work fine.  My desire to buy something new always seems to render these things "disposable" even before any real battery degradation occurs.
> 
> ...



The Shure TWS + the SE846 or the SE535 might be my TWS end game eventually because at this point unlike wired earphones, I don't feel like the jump between $70-$100 to $300-$400 is worth it. Yes, you get different flavors and sometimes added features but not necessarily _better _sound.
When out and about my current setup when I need superb passive NC is the Fiil T1XS (purchased on sale for $30) and the Sennheiser CX 400BT (purchased on sale for $60 on sale) and I enjoy them much more than a bunch of more expensive TWS and wired earphones that I own. 
When buying wired I normally look for best bang for my buck and avoid Chi-Fi and avoid paying retail prices but with TWS it's a different ball game for me.


----------



## chinmie

Tommy C said:


> at this point unlike wired earphones, I don't feel like the jump between $70-$100 to $300-$400 is worth it



I also agree on this. i hope that future tech would improve making the bluetooth dongle smaller (for instance the KZ AZ09 is smaller than the older TRN BT20S Pro), better amplification, even better if there's output gain setting to facilitate different IEM impedance/sensitivity.


----------



## Juturna

I need to mention that I'm absolutely loving the Devialet Gemini now, the sound has really warmed up on me after a few days + some work on finding an EQ that fits my ears. 
I'm somewhat of a big proponent of the idea of "brain burn-in" because I feel like that's definitely something that has happened here because the sound is not the same as I felt like it was when I took a step from the MTW2's. I felt like the Geminis sounded good but didn't convey more organic instrumentation decently, which is not what I feel anymore at all. It still has some weak points but well, so does every earbud I've tried so far. 

If we're mentioning negatives too however, i'd say that the battery is a bit of a disappointment, but also the fact that they massively hurt my ears which is a huge bummer. I feel like i'm getting back the weird chafing on the inside of my tragus that I got from wearing another set of earbuds a couple of months back that had since healed... so that sucks. Ordered a pair of over-ear headphones so I can hopefully minimize my use of earbuds to when i'm out and about and use the over-ears when i'm at home etc.


----------



## scubaphish

Tommy C said:


> The Shure TWS + the SE846 or the SE535 might be my TWS end game eventually because at this point unlike wired earphones, I don't feel like the jump between $70-$100 to $300-$400 is worth it. Yes, you get different flavors and sometimes added features but not necessarily _better _sound.
> When out and about my current setup when I need superb passive NC is the Fiil T1XS (purchased on sale for $30) and the Sennheiser CX 400BT (purchased on sale for $60 on sale) and I enjoy them much more than a bunch of more expensive TWS and wired earphones that I own.
> When buying wired I normally look for best bang for my buck and avoid Chi-Fi and avoid paying retail prices but with TWS it's a different ball game for me.


I’ve been thinking I should have given the CX line a chance.


----------



## cresny

Juturna said:


> I need to mention that I'm absolutely loving the Devialet Gemini now, the sound has really warmed up on me after a few days + some work on finding an EQ that fits my ears.
> I'm somewhat of a big proponent of the idea of "brain burn-in" because I feel like that's definitely something that has happened here because the sound is not the same as I felt like it was when I took a step from the MTW2's. I felt like the Geminis sounded good but didn't convey more organic instrumentation decently, which is not what I feel anymore at all. It still has some weak points but well, so does every earbud I've tried so far.
> 
> If we're mentioning negatives too however, i'd say that the battery is a bit of a disappointment, but also the fact that they massively hurt my ears which is a huge bummer. I feel like i'm getting back the weird chafing on the inside of my tragus that I got from wearing another set of earbuds a couple of months back that had since healed... so that sucks. Ordered a pair of over-ear headphones so I can hopefully minimize my use of earbuds to when i'm out and about and use the over-ears when i'm at home etc.


Sorry to hear about the discomfort, but this made me notice for the first time that my tragus' flange outward, so there is no pressure or rubbing for me. God knows why; ears are so weird.


----------



## tinyman392

Tommy C said:


> The Shure TWS + the SE846 or the SE535 might be my TWS end game eventually because at this point unlike wired earphones, I don't feel like the jump between $70-$100 to $300-$400 is worth it. Yes, you get different flavors and sometimes added features but not necessarily _better _sound.
> When out and about my current setup when I need superb passive NC is the Fiil T1XS (purchased on sale for $30) and the Sennheiser CX 400BT (purchased on sale for $60 on sale) and I enjoy them much more than a bunch of more expensive TWS and wired earphones that I own.
> When buying wired I normally look for best bang for my buck and avoid Chi-Fi and avoid paying retail prices but with TWS it's a different ball game for me.


The jump from a 70-100 dollar IEMs to 300-400 can be pretty substantial in the headphone world and tends to produce better sound (that can also be different).  If the upgrade isn't worth it, that would imply that there exists a 75 dollar or 100 dollar IEM that sounds as good as a 300 dollar or 400 dollar IEM, respectively.  I'd argue that you'd be very hard pressed to find such an IEM.  

Though if you're talking about a 300 dollar TWS only sounding as good as a 100 dollar wired IEM, this is typically true.  Most of the higher-priced TWS headphones add in a slew of features which eat up into costs.  However, if a manufacturer could in theory make an audio-focused, no-frills TWS without said features, they might be able to make a 300 dollar TWS that sounds similar to a 2-250 dollar wired IEM.  By that same token, people gave HiFiMan a bunch of flack in this thread for doing just that.  Though Noble Audio was pretty well regarded with their entry.  

Keep in mind that the SE846 and SE535 with added adapters is essentially a 1000 and 500 dollar TWS, respectively.  So of course they'll end up sounding better.  Though something like the Shure Aonic 3 might have similar SQ to a 350-400 dollar audio-dedicated TWS.  The major issue is that when the battery dies on the TWS headphone, you end up needing to replace the headphone.  When it dies on the adapted headphone, you replace the adapter.  One is definitely cheaper than the other.


----------



## clerkpalmer

Tenlow said:


> The EQs do sound very good. Probably one of the best sounding TWS I have heard to date. Still, as long as they don't fix the annoying flaws and inconveniences (for me), I will stay with the MW08S.
> 
> I tried all the major players, namely the MTW2, WF-1000XM4, PI7, EQs, Airpods Pro and the MW08S and ultimately kept the MW08S.
> 
> Sound quality is more than sufficiently good, fit is perfect, battery life is phenomenal, build quality and design are excellent and I love the physical buttons and the case. ANC, while not the best, is solid and call quality good (at least before the latest update somehow). Tough to beat as a whole package for me right now. They might be too bassy for some but they are fun, engaging and loud


Can't disagree with any this although for me the bass is too boomy on certain tracks and was something I just couldn't get over.  Otherwise it's a really great product.


----------



## clerkpalmer

tinyman392 said:


> The jump from a 70-100 dollar IEMs to 300-400 can be pretty substantial in the headphone world and tends to produce better sound (that can also be different).  If the upgrade isn't worth it, that would imply that there exists a 75 dollar or 100 dollar IEM that sounds as good as a 300 dollar or 400 dollar IEM, respectively.  I'd argue that you'd be very hard pressed to find such an IEM.
> 
> Though if you're talking about a 300 dollar TWS only sounding as good as a 100 dollar wired IEM, this is typically true.  Most of the higher-priced TWS headphones add in a slew of features which eat up into costs.  However, if a manufacturer could in theory make an audio-focused, no-frills TWS without said features, they might be able to make a 300 dollar TWS that sounds similar to a 2-250 dollar wired IEM.  By that same token, people gave HiFiMan a bunch of flack in this thread for doing just that.  Though Noble Audio was pretty well regarded with their entry.
> 
> Keep in mind that the SE846 and SE535 with added adapters is essentially a 1000 and 500 dollar TWS, respectively.  So of course they'll end up sounding better.  Though something like the Shure Aonic 3 might have similar SQ to a 350-400 dollar audio-dedicated TWS.  The major issue is that when the battery dies on the TWS headphone, you end up needing to replace the headphone.  When it dies on the adapted headphone, you replace the adapter.  One is definitely cheaper than the other.


Fingers crossed but the Fokus may achieve this. We shall see.


----------



## erockg

scubaphish said:


> I’ve been thinking I should have given the CX line a chance.


I can vouch for the CX Plus.  Pretty surprised they are so good for such a price.


----------



## nijfi

One day and 12 hours left to get the LP3s at £120. Which is £20 off, and the claimed price again on Black Friday.

I really wish there were some in depth reviews on places like here from actual users that have had them for a week or so on regular play. Rather than just the endless unboxing and first impression hype reviews elsewhere.

Still looking likely I'll be pulling the trigger on these before tomorrow is out, as my first ever exploration of wireless listening. They really do appear to tick all my boxes. Good to have reassurance on here regarding the 30 day return option at least.


----------



## Ceeluh7

TK33 said:


> In chronological order, I have Galaxy Buds (wife still uses and keeps in the diaper bag), Senn MTW (original), MW07 Go (returned and bought again because of battery issue), JBL Reflect Flow (exchanged once in a Harman store due to driver flex), 2 pairs of Galaxy Buds Live (1 was replaced under warranty), B&W PI7 (replaced under warranty twice before I got a working set), and most recently the Shure TW2 with my trusty SE846.
> 
> Ever since I got the TW2, it (with my Shure SE846) has been my go to for wireless music with the PI7s still getting some use because the TW2 can be a bit annoying when the mask gets tangled in it (my two favorites so far). I don't think regular TWS can compete with the adapter (like TW2) + favorite IEM but I also really enjoy the SQ and signature of the PI7.  Galaxy Buds Live are great for calls and everything else is sitting in a box in my closet or the aforementioned diaper bag but still work fine.  My desire to buy something new always seems to render these things "disposable" even before any real battery degradation occurs.
> 
> ...


If you go with the Galaxy Buds Pro.... The stock tips are God awful. I use a slightly ressesed tips that I got with the Fiio Fd3 or the Fiio FH5... Can't remember. They open up the sound soooo much. I have an enormous Tupperware full of tips and so I normally experiment until I find one that works. The GBP is difficult to find any that sit well inside the case. After you do find a good solution the GBP sound very nice. With these tips they actually go into my ear and have a great seal whereas the stock tips seem to just hover over the ear canal


----------



## Microwavey

nijfi said:


> One day and 12 hours left to get the LP3s at £120. Which is £20 off, and the claimed price again on Black Friday.
> 
> I really wish there were some in depth reviews on places like here from actual users that have had them for a week or so on regular play. Rather than just the endless unboxing and first impression hype reviews elsewhere.
> 
> Still looking likely I'll be pulling the trigger on these before tomorrow is out, as my first ever exploration of wireless listening. They really do appear to tick all my boxes. Good to have reassurance on here regarding the 30 day return option at least.


Looking forward to your impressions!


----------



## nijfi

Microwavey said:


> Looking forward to your impressions!


You may have to wait a while as I'm going to be a bit of a tart and go for the purple ones

There's a bit of a longer wait on those unfortunately.


----------



## clerkpalmer

nijfi said:


> You may have to wait a while as I'm going to be a bit of a *tart *and go for the purple ones


I love the British.


----------



## webvan

Has anyone found an L3P review with "listen for yourself" for the ANC like "Jim's Review Room" used to do ? EBP Man does actual comparisons but only for call quality it seems.


----------



## nijfi

webvan said:


> Has anyone found an L3P review with "listen for yourself" for the ANC like "Jim's Review Room" used to do ? EBP Man does actual comparisons but only for call quality it seems.


I was really hoping Oluv would have done a review by now, but he hasn't.


----------



## webvan

Yeah I'm not sure why no one's doing a "hear it as it is" test, EBPMan has the proper setup apparently since he does it for music.


----------



## jant71 (Oct 13, 2021)

JVC being cryptic as far as the Victor brand. Setting an announcement for 10/13. They do reveal it seems to be a TWS but 10/20 will be the full reveal. One to watch. I did have the first one. Still gets good reviews and people who have had both said it is similar to the Senn MTW2 and some preferred the Victor for sound. Was much smaller and better fitting than the Senn.

So far on the new one...






https://www.victor.jp/teaser2110/mv/teaser02-sp.mp4
(with the trees it has to be a woodie driver right?)

One to watch for sure. They have done the improvements through other models and it should show here. They are much better now for the mics, battery, connection than the early days. Finally dropped micro USB so these should be intriguing. They have been sticking to ambient on the right and play/pause on the left bud so that might stay but curious if they will swap that or allow us to in an app.


----------



## BigZ12

scubaphish said:


> I don’t own many pair of TWS, but as a new glasses wearer I wanted to find a TWS replacement for my B&W PX over ears. I bought and tried the Sony XM4, Sennheiser MTW2, Klipsch T5 II ANC, Master and Dynamic MW08, Melomania Touch, B&W PI7 and PI5, and Devialet Gemini. The Gemini won the bake off. I love the sound so much.
> 
> I also have a pair of Apple AirPods Pro I use mostly for calls and the like. They sound ok, but wanted something more.


And you have no problems at all with the Geminis, regarding "snap, crackle and pops"?!?!
My new pair, second one, are as bad as the first. Far worse left side, and unusable with ANC High On.
It must be something anatomical in my left ear canal then... ?


----------



## scubaphish (Oct 13, 2021)

BigZ12 said:


> And you have no problems at all with the Geminis, regarding "snap, crackle and pops"?!?!
> My new pair, second one, are as bad as the first. Far worse left side, and unusable with ANC High On.
> It must be something anatomical in my left ear canal then... ?


Sorry to hear they aren’t working out for you…I was psyched when you said you were getting replacements. I do not get those noises, but also don’t use ANC high. I sometimes get noises when first putting them in or when walking but nothing as extreme as the sounds you’re describing.

Edit: ok, if I move them around in my ears with ANC high on I hear the popping. I sometimes get similar with transparency high.


----------



## webvan

nijfi said:


> I was really hoping Oluv would have done a review by now, but he hasn't.


Wow, I have to admit I wasn't familiar with Oluv but he's got some great reviews and isn't shy to explain how he produces his audio clips.

Has anyone here gone for the Earfun Free Pro Oluv edition ? Not that they're available anymore apparently. I'm not sure he'll be a big fan of the L3Ps as he gave the Soundcore Lifes a pretty poor rating.


----------



## 100Pipers

I have had the LP3 since Saturday, first up couldn’t find them in the Android app(Samsung S21 ultra), had to use my iPad to set them up instead. 
They are smaller than the 2s and feel more stable in my small ears.  Sound wise I’d say an extreme focus on the highs with vocals recessed and bass not really showing up to the party. Currently running them with custom eq rather than the Hear-ID eq as the Hear-ID seemed to increase the treble even more, although can’t recall any sibilance. Running the hearid anc seemed to improve the ambient sound feature but didn’t do much for the anc side of this which remains next to non-existent. Had to reset them once after installed LDAC update as right side touch panel stopped responding. 
Really like the control you get in the Soundcore app though. The LP3 seem to take over the volume control of what they are connected to (used hi by r3pro saber, Sony nw55, Samsung s9+ iPad 2020 and Samsung s21 ultra). The LP3s sound reminds me of the P17s (without the P17s bass). 

Got the Shure TW2 and had them paired with the Shure 535 (can’t remember where I put my 846s but need to find them and try them with the TW2), swapped them out for the tin hifi P1 on the 215 setting in the app (which seemed to increase power available), as others have said previously, the TW2 are really difficult to wear when out and about with a mask, anc works to a decent level not as good as the devialet or Sony wm4 but usable on London Underground, same for ambient sound.

Also picked up in recent weeks the Moondrop Sparks (x2 first pair right side touch panel became unresponsive after the short lived update that added volume control, got sent out another pair), Nuheara Iqbuds 2 Max (really good ambient mode, anc not so effective), Klipsch T5 ANC version,  Samsung Buds 2, Jabra 3, Nothing 1 and had to get the right side of the Noble Pro replaced due to the dreaded nozzle issue. 

Need to send the Gemini in for repair though as I am getting what seems like driver flex with every head movement at high volume.


----------



## IamJon (Oct 13, 2021)

Tempted by the L3Ps, early reviews are a bit mixed suggesting a few issues, call quality,  touch control response etc. But spec and price are so tempting and I do have a soft spot for Anker stuff. Pretty happy with my L2Ps, once I got the revised version to fix hiss problem.

Been looking at XM4's etc but hard to stomach paying £250 vs £120. I'm sure they are good but still not perfect. Still got 24 hours left on offer, will see if anymore real reviews show up.....

Use Fiio FH3 with BTR3k for my daily listen but want convenience of TWS and ANC to use on public transport and flights.


----------



## Tommy C (Oct 13, 2021)

tinyman392 said:


> The jump from a 70-100 dollar IEMs to 300-400 can be pretty substantial in the headphone world and tends to produce better sound (that can also be different).  If the upgrade isn't worth it, that would imply that there exists a 75 dollar or 100 dollar IEM that sounds as good as a 300 dollar or 400 dollar IEM, respectively.  I'd argue that you'd be very hard pressed to find such an IEM.
> 
> Though if you're talking about a 300 dollar TWS only sounding as good as a 100 dollar wired IEM, this is typically true.  Most of the higher-priced TWS headphones add in a slew of features which eat up into costs.  However, if a manufacturer could in theory make an audio-focused, no-frills TWS without said features, they might be able to make a 300 dollar TWS that sounds similar to a 2-250 dollar wired IEM.  By that same token, people gave HiFiMan a bunch of flack in this thread for doing just that.  Though Noble Audio was pretty well regarded with their entry.
> 
> Keep in mind that the SE846 and SE535 with added adapters is essentially a 1000 and 500 dollar TWS, respectively.  So of course they'll end up sounding better.  Though something like the Shure Aonic 3 might have similar SQ to a 350-400 dollar audio-dedicated TWS.  The major issue is that when the battery dies on the TWS headphone, you end up needing to replace the headphone.  When it dies on the adapted headphone, you replace the adapter.  One is definitely cheaper than the other.



Yeah, I know what you mean and I think when it comes to wired earphones the jump between $100 to $300-$400 is massive but when it comes to TWS _to my ears _the leap forward in performance isn't that big and the rule of diminishing returns is starting to show past the $150 mark.

Based on my experience, the Fill T1XS, Sennheiser CX 400BT, Soundcore Liberty 2 Pro+, Soundcore Life P3 and even Monster Inspiration 700 all sound excellent and provide different flavors of sound and features. Some also like the sound of the CA MT but this wasn't my cup of tea.
Over the ears I demoed or bought and returned the Bose SoundSport, Sony WF-1000XM3, M&D MW07 Go and the Grado and while the performance was better the price difference was quite significant for mainly features and maybe 15%-20% for better sound of any but all the ones I have had over the ears are between $30-$100.

Now I haven't tried the Geminis or the latest and greatest TOTL TWS that popped up recently like the Noble ones but they will have to blow me away and be free of bugs to justify the cost.


----------



## chinmie

tinyman392 said:


> The jump from a 70-100 dollar IEMs to 300-400 can be pretty substantial in the headphone world and tends to produce better sound (that can also be different).  If the upgrade isn't worth it, that would imply that there exists a 75 dollar or 100 dollar IEM that sounds as good as a 300 dollar or 400 dollar IEM, respectively.  I'd argue that you'd be very hard pressed to find such an IEM.
> 
> Though if you're talking about a 300 dollar TWS only sounding as good as a 100 dollar wired IEM, this is typically true.  Most of the higher-priced TWS headphones add in a slew of features which eat up into costs.  However, if a manufacturer could in theory make an audio-focused, no-frills TWS without said features, they might be able to make a 300 dollar TWS that sounds similar to a 2-250 dollar wired IEM.  By that same token, people gave HiFiMan a bunch of flack in this thread for doing just that.  Though Noble Audio was pretty well regarded with their entry.
> 
> Keep in mind that the SE846 and SE535 with added adapters is essentially a 1000 and 500 dollar TWS, respectively.  So of course they'll end up sounding better.  Though something like the Shure Aonic 3 might have similar SQ to a 350-400 dollar audio-dedicated TWS.  The major issue is that when the battery dies on the TWS headphone, you end up needing to replace the headphone.  When it dies on the adapted headphone, you replace the adapter.  One is definitely cheaper than the other.



 Even pairing 40usd BT20S Pro or 80usd with sub 100usd IEMs like KZ, Tinaudio, Moondrop Aria, and other choices would be a better bang for the buck, if sound quality is the only deciding factor. 
The only time i would like to spend more than 150 usd for a TWS is usually if i want that specific extra tech/features (ANC, clearer ambient mode, build quality, app support, mic quality, etc) that i think are still not achievable (quality-wise) by the budget TWS.

most audiophile companies that want to create an audio focused TWS would use their skills in physical tuning, which is (in my perspective) would be a rather uphill battle to compete with the wired counterparts in the same price bracket. 

i think the only way to make an audio focused TWS at reasonable price would come to DSP tuning, which is apparently not something that small audiophile IEM companies dabble at the moment.. the bigger tech companies like Apple, Samsung, Sony, Huawei, etc might have the better chance at this


----------



## nijfi

webvan said:


> Wow, I have to admit I wasn't familiar with Oluv but he's got some great reviews and isn't shy to explain how he produces his audio clips.
> 
> Has anyone here gone for the Earfun Free Pro Oluv edition ? Not that they're available anymore apparently. I'm not sure he'll be a big fan of the L3Ps as he gave the Soundcore Lifes a pretty poor rating.


From the wireless earbud reviews I've seen of his, had I been about at the time of release, I would have snapped up the earfuns that he tuned. At that price, they seemed to excel against all the others he tested.

I have a lot of time for him. Open honest reviews, and you know that he favours a 'neutral', 'reference' sound, so you can take your cue from that with his reviews.

I was a bit concerned, regarding his review of the Soundcore Liberty air 2 Pro. Mainly because I agreed with him from the tests I heard. But he did say how customisable they are from the excellent app, although he said he couldn't quite adjust them far enough for to get the sound of his liking. But the LP3s should, in theory, be an improvement on the 2's, so we'll see.


----------



## Tommy C (Oct 14, 2021)

nijfi said:


> From the wireless earbud reviews I've seen of his, had I been about at the time of release, I would have snapped up the earfuns that he tuned. At that price, they seemed to excel against all the others he tested.
> 
> I have a lot of time for him. Open honest reviews, and you know that he favours a 'neutral', 'reference' sound, so you can take your cue from that with his reviews.
> 
> I was a bit concerned, regarding his review of the Soundcore Liberty air 2 Pro. Mainly because I agreed with him from the tests I heard. But he did say how customisable they are from the excellent app, although he said he couldn't quite adjust them far enough for to get the sound of his liking. But the LP3s should, in theory, be an improvement on the 2's, so we'll see.


The Earfun TWS as far as I know are OEM used by Fiil as Earfun doesn’t manufacture them, maybe they tune them. I have no clue. 
Problem with Earfun isthat there is no app available which means if you’re an iOS user you don’t have equalizer. I believe the Oluv edition was tuned to sound like Etymotic XR meaning very flat response with boosted bass.


----------



## nijfi

100Pipers said:


> I have had the LP3 since Saturday, first up couldn’t find them in the Android app(Samsung S21 ultra), had to use my iPad to set them up instead.
> They are smaller than the 2s and feel more stable in my small ears.  Sound wise I’d say an extreme focus on the highs with vocals recessed and bass not really showing up to the party. Currently running them with custom eq rather than the Hear-ID eq as the Hear-ID seemed to increase the treble even more, although can’t recall any sibilance. Running the hearid anc seemed to improve the ambient sound feature but didn’t do much for the anc side of this which remains next to non-existent. Had to reset them once after installed LDAC update as right side touch panel stopped responding.
> Really like the control you get in the Soundcore app though. The LP3 seem to take over the volume control of what they are connected to (used hi by r3pro saber, Sony nw55, Samsung s9+ iPad 2020 and Samsung s21 ultra). The LP3s sound reminds me of the P17s (without the P17s bass).
> 
> ...


Thanks for the LP3 feedback.

I've only heard two very brief sound tests on YouTube. Comparing them to the MX4's and a Sennheiser (model escapes me now). Both tests made the LP3s sound thin to me. They sounded bright, and with the reviewer and others raving about the bass, all I could think was.... What bass?

My own brief perception mirrors your experience then. Here's hoping I can get a decent tune out of them.


----------



## Caipirina (Oct 14, 2021)

Tommy C said:


> Agreed.  I had the Liberty 2 pro Plus which is the upgraded version with LDAC support and ambient. The highs were definitely thin and the mids were a bit too weak for my taste. Keep in mind the use the balance armature driver the mids and highs accordingly to one review (can’t remember which one) so that explains why they are rather thin sounding.
> HearID was underwhelming for me as the suggested eq was way too bright but it can be used as a base to tweak it even further. The biggest selling point of these and and the previous gens is the level of customization that you can achieve with with the eq which is very responsive.
> My Sennheiser CX 400BT have this pretty basic app and and the eq is nowhere near being as good as the Soundcore app.
> for $150 I don’t think you can go wrong with them really with all the features that your getting but for me I feel like I prefer the Sennheiser sound signature better.
> If you don’t think you need all these features the Sennheiser CX, CX Plus and the (discontinued?) CX 400BT might be better options for you.


Not sure if this has been mentioned here before (I am still playing catch up) ... but I have not played with my Liberty AIR 2 Pro in a while .. imagine my surprise when I put them in, connect, and app asks me 'do you want to upgrade to LDAC?' .. so, I install new firmware and allegedly it does LDAC now .. it connects to my TempoTec V1A using LDAC ... hard to do an exact A/B .. but sounds legit!



Are there any others that have gotten LDAC with new firmware?


----------



## Tommy C

Caipirina said:


> Not sure if this has been mentioned here before (I am still playing catch up) ... but I have not played with my Liberty AIR 2 Pro in a while .. imagine my surprise when I put them in, connect, and app asks me 'do you want to upgrade to LDAC?' .. so, I install new firmware and allegedly it does LDAC now .. it connects to my TempoTec V1A using LDAC ... hard to do an exact A/B .. but sounds legit!
> 
> 
> 
> Are there any others that have gotten LDAC with new firmware?



Interesting. I purchased the Liberty 2 Pro+ last month which is the same as the older version just with ambient mode and LDAC. They sounded very good but I felt like the mids were a bit dry and a few tracked the mids were sort of uninspiring. They weren’t recessed though just a bit weak and ended up returning them despite getting them for a great price.


----------



## Tommy C

nijfi said:


> Thanks for the LP3 feedback.
> 
> I've only heard two very brief sound tests on YouTube. Comparing them to the MX4's and a Sennheiser (model escapes me now). Both tests made the LP3s sound thin to me. They sounded bright, and with the reviewer and others raving about the bass, all I could think was.... What bass?
> 
> My own brief perception mirrors your experience then. Here's hoping I can get a decent tune out of them.


Soundcore app is really good and you shouldn’t have any issues tweaking them. The eq is very responsive so I won’t worry about it but the question is do they have the ability to sound a bit fuller and rich? The Liberty 2 Pro+ were a bit lacking in the mids department- see my comment above.


----------



## webvan

nijfi said:


> From the wireless earbud reviews I've seen of his, had I been about at the time of release, I would have snapped up the earfuns that he tuned. At that price, they seemed to excel against all the others he tested.
> 
> I have a lot of time for him. Open honest reviews, and you know that he favours a 'neutral', 'reference' sound, so you can take your cue from that with his reviews.
> 
> I was a bit concerned, regarding his review of the Soundcore Liberty air 2 Pro. Mainly because I agreed with him from the tests I heard. But he did say how customisable they are from the excellent app, although he said he couldn't quite adjust them far enough for to get the sound of his liking. But the LP3s should, in theory, be an improvement on the 2's, so we'll see.


Actually I just found out his channel used to be called "Clavinetjunkie" ! I knew that voice and style was somewhat familiar  I watched his portable bluetooth speaker reviews around 2016 and I remember a comment along the lines of "people ask me why I listen to crap music", hehe...

Yeah the Earfuns are FILL "derivatives", the Oluv edition was the v2 that was smaller and with added (and weak sauce) ANC. There is an iOS app for my FILL but there is no EQ as far as I can remember. I mostly used them for watching videos as there is a low latency setting. I wonder why they can't have another Oluv Earfun run...

Anyway I bit the bullet on the L3Ps and will compare their overall (passive+active) isolation to my Echobuds that remain to my ears the best overall isolation solution.


----------



## Tommy C

webvan said:


> Actually I just found out his channel used to be called "Clavinetjunkie" ! I knew that voice and style was somewhat familiar  I watched his portable bluetooth speaker reviews around 2016 and I remember a comment along the lines of "people ask me why I listen to crap music", hehe...
> 
> Yeah the Earfuns are FILL "derivatives", the Oluv edition was the v2 that was smaller and with added (and weak sauce) ANC. There is an iOS app for my FILL but there is no EQ as far as I can remember. I mostly used them for watching videos as there is a low latency setting. I wonder why they can't have another Oluv Earfun run...
> 
> Anyway I bit the bullet on the L3Ps and will compare their overall (passive+active) isolation to my Echobuds that remain to my ears the best overall isolation solution.


Yeah l the Fill+ app has full equalizer and presets. It has some nice features like low latency as you mentioned, ambient mode, DSP sound quality enhancement, ability to adjust the touch control sensitivity and a few other options.  
I really like the Fiil T1XS. I prefer the sound signature of them to the Sennheiser CX 400BT. Mids are a bit more forward and more juicy, bass is not super super tight but big natural like a sub-woofer and the soundstage is good too. The Sennheiser CX 400BT are a little more refined and polite but can sound a bit too dull with certain tracks but the Fiil makes all tracks comes to life.


----------



## webvan

Ah ok so with the Fiil T1XS and its EQ you could probably replicate the sound of the "Earfun Oluv" ?


----------



## Tommy C

webvan said:


> Ah ok so with the Fiil T1XS and its EQ you could probably replicate the sound of the "Earfun Oluv" ?


I would think I can get very close. I just enjoy the default eq very much and never felt the need to tweak it much after playing around with it.


----------



## Juturna

My Devialet Geminis have started to auto-pause at completely random intervals but very often... Has anyone else had this issue? I think it detects touch on the right earbud even when i'm not even close to touching it because I hear the "click" sound from the right earbud like when you touch it.

At first I was thinking it was the ear detection sensor but I don't think it would make that click sound just before it stops the music if that was the case, right?


----------



## Aevum (Oct 14, 2021)

Ok, the koss TWS250i arrived.

First impressions
- Both buds and case are VERY small, this is like the buds to take with you when you cant fit anything else, very comfortable to carry.
- No ANC, no Ambient mode, no app, Very barebones.
- comes with a short USB C cable and silicon tips, tips are mid bore, not sennhaiser wide but not Ety/shure thin.
- silicon tips feel cheap, mids for me.
- Isolation is in the medium range, maybe will improve with higher quality tips
- Sound signature is neutral with some bass,  sounds quite clean, similar to my N400 but you notice the n400 can take it a notch further
- soundstage is good, not IE80 wide but not congested either.
- decent instrument separation.
- touch controls that work with volume control, color me impressed.
- Its a tad quiet, so if you´re looking for a loud bud, this is not your bud. 

I would say people who are looking for good balanced sound on a very small bud thats quite comfortable, its a good buy


----------



## scubaphish

Juturna said:


> My Devialet Geminis have started to auto-pause at completely random intervals but very often... Has anyone else had this issue? I think it detects touch on the right earbud even when i'm not even close to touching it because I hear the "click" sound from the right earbud like when you touch it.
> 
> At first I was thinking it was the ear detection sensor but I don't think it would make that click sound just before it stops the music if that was the case, right?


I had/have issues with ear detect, but don’t think it ever made the clicking sound when it engaged. Devialet replaced one set for me. Still finding ear detect unreliable, so turned it off.


----------



## Juturna

scubaphish said:


> I had/have issues with ear detect, but don’t think it ever made the clicking sound when it engaged. Devialet replaced one set for me. Still finding ear detect unreliable, so turned it off.


Aye, it seems a bit weird but right now it works again, it seemed like the issue solved itself (for now).  

I have a weirder issue though which is that I can't seem to get the wireless charging to work AT ALL, I've tried two wireless chargers that have not worked.


----------



## erockg (Oct 14, 2021)

Not sure if something new is on the horizon, but $199 is a steal for the Bose Quietcomfort ANC buds.  I'm taking a second spin here because I read they added an EQ to the app.  Edit: Maybe I'm wrong about the EQ.  We'll see...

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08C4KWM9T?smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER&ref_=chk_typ_imgToDp&th=1


----------



## jmwant

I guess we're almost there with the TWS adapters like these.

https://hifigo.com/blogs/news/fiio-utws5-true-wireless-adapters-with-bluetooth-v5-2-support


----------



## Luchyres

Juturna said:


> My Devialet Geminis have started to auto-pause at completely random intervals but very often... Has anyone else had this issue? I think it detects touch on the right earbud even when i'm not even close to touching it because I hear the "click" sound from the right earbud like when you touch it.
> 
> At first I was thinking it was the ear detection sensor but I don't think it would make that click sound just before it stops the music if that was the case, right?


 
I experienced this. Putting them in the case overnight resolved it for me, though I did eventually return them, so I'm not sure if it would have recurred.


----------



## Ceeluh7

jmwant said:


> I guess we're almost there with the TWS adapters like these.
> 
> https://hifigo.com/blogs/news/fiio-utws5-true-wireless-adapters-with-bluetooth-v5-2-support


Supposed to be available sometime in October... I am anxiously awaiting these gems. I have the Utws3 with Hidizs MS2 attached and the SQ is alarming considering it is wireless. Fiio does a great job with their adapters.


----------



## Ceeluh7

Does anyone know if the B&O EQ updated to add skipping tracks? Or are they planning on it? It is a very odd thing to exclude and for me at least, kind of a deal breaker. I don't know if the SQ is good enough or worth it enough to bring my phone out everytime I want to change a song.... Weird


----------



## Aevum (Oct 14, 2021)

after my expiriance with the UTWS3 (battery issues and nither fiio spain nor fiio china wants to take care) and not liking how they made my blessing 2 sound,
Not to mention the new one has a AKM DAC  meaning its going to be cold and analitical, so im not going to be queuing for there.


----------



## RikudouGoku

Sennheiser CX 400BT































Better than the FIIL T1 Lite, thats for sure. (cant connect to the damn app though…but regular BT works.)


----------



## VICosPhi

Juturna said:


> My Devialet Geminis have started to auto-pause at completely random intervals but very often... Has anyone else had this issue? I think it detects touch on the right earbud even when i'm not even close to touching it because I hear the "click" sound from the right earbud like when you touch it.
> 
> At first I was thinking it was the ear detection sensor but I don't think it would make that click sound just before it stops the music if that was the case, right?


I have the same same issues with B&O EQ. Someone else mentioned having this same issue with CA Melomanias. So far only Sennheiser MTW2 seem to work properly out of the high quality TWS when it comes to touch control reliability.


----------



## Tommy C

VICosPhi said:


> I have the same same issues with B&O EQ. Someone else mentioned having this same issue with CA Melomanias. So far only Sennheiser MTW2 seem to work properly out of the high quality TWS when it comes to touch control reliability.


Yeah, it was me who had these issues with the CA MT.
I have the Senn CX 400BT and the touch control is flawless, responsive and has great feed back. Never any glitches so far.


----------



## erockg

RikudouGoku said:


> Sennheiser CX 400BT
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yup, have them and for the price they are phenomenal IMO.  I prefer them to the MTW2.


----------



## Tommy C

RikudouGoku said:


> Sennheiser CX 400BT
> 
> 
> 
> ...




They are really good and the price is right. The only weak spot for me is the tips.
The Fiil tips fit them perfectly and provide a deeper fit and as a result more vivid sound.
I had no issues with the app on iOS although it has its quirks and the eq is pretty lackluster.


----------



## erockg

New Technics up for sale on Amazon.  Only white though.  Not sure why the darker color isn't.


----------



## RikudouGoku

Sennheiser CX 400BT Impressions:

Sub-bass: Sub-bass is elevated and on the tighter/faster side, with good texture. Does rumble but not that much and extension could be better.

Mid-bass: Mid-bass is the focus over sub-bass, but fortunately still on the tighter side, speed is decent as well as texture.

Lower-mids: male vocals tonality is quite good but slightly recessed.

Upper-mids: female vocals tonality is too warm and slightly recessed as well, not shouty at the slightest.

Treble: extremely tame/relaxing and fatigue free treble, very smooth and a very safe tuning. The mid-treble area is the reason why this isn’t overly dark for me and just ends up being a very warm treble and upper-treble does have some air in it.

Overall: A pleasant surprise after my experience with the badly tuned FIIL T1 Lite. Looks like my TWS journey might not have ended.

(using the Final Audio Type E tips)


----------



## cresny

Luchyres said:


> I experienced this. Putting them in the case overnight resolved it for me, though I did eventually return them, so I'm not sure if it would have recurred.





Juturna said:


> My Devialet Geminis have started to auto-pause at completely random intervals but very often... Has anyone else had this issue? I think it detects touch on the right earbud even when i'm not even close to touching it because I hear the "click" sound from the right earbud like when you touch it.
> 
> At first I was thinking it was the ear detection sensor but I don't think it would make that click sound just before it stops the music if that was the case, right?


This happens occasionally for me, but putting them in the case for a few seconds takes care of it. I think this is "reboot your computer",  TWS-style.

About wireless charging, no issues for me. FWIW I have this, I assume yours does support Qi, in which case it should work.


----------



## Tommy C

RikudouGoku said:


> Sennheiser CX 400BT Impressions:
> 
> Sub-bass: Sub-bass is elevated and on the tighter/faster side, with good texture. Does rumble but not that much and extension could be better.
> 
> ...



For $90 you will be hard pressed finding anything better. 
Mids recessed tonality can be fixed with tips that fit better instead of the stock tips. I did quite a bit of tip rolling as many of the tips that I have handy do fit but don't go well with the CX 400BT. 

For me the bass is perfect, not that tight but gives it a nice speaker-like feeling and I like the treble as I'm very treble sensitive.
See if you can install the app after all as you should be able to tweak it further.


----------



## RikudouGoku

Tommy C said:


> For $90 you will be hard pressed finding anything better.
> Mids recessed tonality can be fixed with tips that fit better instead of the stock tips. I did quite a bit of tip rolling as many of the tips that I have handy do fit but don't go well with the CX 400BT.
> 
> For me the bass is perfect, not that tight but gives it a nice speaker-like feeling and I like the treble as I'm very treble sensitive.
> See if you can install the app after all as you should be able to tweak it further.


AKG N400 is next on my radar, if I get another one.


----------



## Tommy C

RikudouGoku said:


> AKG N400 is next on my radar, if I get another one.


I was eyeing the AKG N400 too but it seems like they have some issues with battery drain and connectivity. 

The Soundcore Liberty 3 Pro might be a better and newer option for similar money.


----------



## RikudouGoku

Tommy C said:


> The Soundcore Liberty 3 Pro might be a better and newer option for similar money.


No graph for it.


----------



## Thesonofkrypton

This hobby seems to drive some people crazy looking for the perfect set of earphones lol
The XM4 tick all the boxes for me, so glad I don't need to spend a single penny on anything else.  Just be content people with what you have.
Saying that, those potential JVC TWS potential woodies have me interested. Was a fan of the FW01 and the higher end JVC stuff from Japan, if they can bottle that into a TWS, magic.


----------



## jsmiller58

Thesonofkrypton said:


> Just be content people with what you have.


So absolutely true.


----------



## darveniza

erockg said:


> New Technics up for sale on Amazon.  Only white though.  Not sure why the darker color isn't.


could you share link, was looking and cannot find them


----------



## Tommy C

darveniza said:


> could you share link, was looking and cannot find them


https://www.amazon.com/Technics-Hig...&keywords=technics+az60&qid=1634247645&sr=8-4


----------



## darveniza

darveniza said:


> could you share link, was looking and cannot find them


found them, finally.


----------



## erockg

darveniza said:


> could you share link, was looking and cannot find them


Try this;  Technics True Wireless Earbuds with Advanced Noise Cancelling, High-Fidelity Bluetooth Ear Buds with Multi-Point Connectivity, Impressive Call Quality Using JustMyVoice Technology- EAH-AZ60-S (Silver)


----------



## voicemaster

So, I just got the Soundcore liberty 3 pro. I was wondering if the EQ setting is saved into the IEM itself or it needs the app to "active" the EQ setting? I am planning to connect my PC and my phone at the same time.


----------



## voicemaster

jmwant said:


> I guess we're almost there with the TWS adapters like these.
> 
> https://hifigo.com/blogs/news/fiio-utws5-true-wireless-adapters-with-bluetooth-v5-2-support


I wonder if this adapter is capable of driving 7hz timeless. I wish they have a 2pin connector model or they have but I just didn't see it.


----------



## erockg

Well... that didn't last long.  The B&O EQ pop cometh again.  Heard it on a few songs today.  Ugh.


----------



## BooleanBones

erockg said:


> Well... that didn't last long.  The B&O EQ pop cometh again.  Heard it on a few songs today.  Ugh.


Triple ugh.


----------



## erockg

BooleanBones said:


> Triple ugh.


Can you believe it?  If I get a new pair that's QUADRUPLE ugh?  Did you end up keeping yours?


----------



## BooleanBones

erockg said:


> Can you believe it?  If I get a new pair that's QUADRUPLE ugh?  Did you end up keeping yours?


Nope, as much as I love them, I can't deal with that. I stopped after double ugh hoping they will get it fixed someday


----------



## erockg

BooleanBones said:


> Nope, as much as I love them, I can't deal with that. I stopped after double ugh hoping they will get it fixed someday


Ah jeez.  I'm a sucker for the triple ugh.  Such a shame.


----------



## Tommy C

RikudouGoku said:


> No graph for it.



You buy TWS that only has graphs? 
Soundcore or Amazon's return policy is hassle free so not sure what you meant.


----------



## Tommy C

erockg said:


> Well... that didn't last long.  The B&O EQ pop cometh again.  Heard it on a few songs today.  Ugh.



That's a bummer, man. 
If that's the case it's probably a hardware issue and not software/ firmware, eh?


----------



## erockg

Tommy C said:


> That's a bummer, man.
> If that's the case it's probably a hardware issue and not software/ firmware, eh?


I would think it's 100% a hardware issue.  Really disappointing.  Most layman wouldn't notice it, but we all would.


----------



## VICosPhi (Oct 14, 2021)

erockg said:


> Try this;  Technics True Wireless Earbuds with Advanced Noise Cancelling, High-Fidelity Bluetooth Ear Buds with Multi-Point Connectivity, Impressive Call Quality Using JustMyVoice Technology- EAH-AZ60-S (Silver)


Nice. Looks like no ANC however. (erockg pointed out these do have ANC).


----------



## erockg

VICosPhi said:


> Nice. Looks like no ANC however.


They do, unless my old eyes deceive me.  https://www.technics.com/us/products/headphones/eah-az60.html


----------



## jmwant

voicemaster said:


> I wonder if this adapter is capable of driving 7hz timeless. I wish they have a 2pin connector model or they have but I just didn't see it


Here is it.
https://hifigo.com/products/fiio-utws5


----------



## jmwant

voicemaster said:


> I wonder if this adapter is capable of driving 7hz timeless. I wish they have a 2pin connector model or they have but I just didn't see it.


33mW @32 ohms, even though Timeless is effecient than other IEMs I don't think its enough.


----------



## VICosPhi (Oct 14, 2021)

erockg said:


> They do, unless my old eyes deceive me.  https://www.technics.com/us/products/headphones/eah-az60.html


Yikes, missed that part. Looks interesting now with LDAC+Multipoint+ANC, though I'll wait for the black color. Got the Soundcore L3P ordered and hoping them to live to the hype. If these turn out to be fluff, I'll get the Technics. Returning my B&O EQs, great sound but wonky touch controls in addition to missing track skip controls.

EDIT: I was looking at the cheaper model that lacks ANC! Also, looks like they named these AZ60 while the last year's model was AZ70?


----------



## bladefd (Oct 14, 2021)

Tommy C said:


> You buy TWS that only has graphs?
> Soundcore or Amazon's return policy is hassle free so not sure what you meant.


I don't even know how you judge sound quality and signature off a graph lol. It's better to try firsthand and compare directly.


----------



## RikudouGoku

Tommy C said:


> You buy TWS that only has graphs?


I have been burned enough to the point where I dont care about a product (TWS AND wired) that doesnt have graphs. 
A graph is very helpful to get a read on the tonality. If I saw that graph of the FIIL T1 Lite before I bought it, I wouldnt have wasted my money on it....



Tommy C said:


> Soundcore or Amazon's return policy is hassle free so not sure what you meant.


Still very annoying to have to return it if I dont like it.


----------



## voicemaster

RikudouGoku said:


> I have been burned enough to the point where I dont care about a product (TWS AND wired) that doesnt have graphs.
> A graph is very helpful to get a read on the tonality. If I saw that graph of the FIIL T1 Lite before I bought it, I wouldnt have wasted my money on it....
> 
> 
> *Still very annoying to have to return it if I dont like it.*


Trying it for 30 days and able to return it if you don't like it will be better than reading any graph, watching youtube reviews or reading Head-fi tho. I don't know how hard it is in Sweden to return Amazon product, but in the USA, I can go to Whole Foods, UPS and kohls to return my purchase. Some place doesn't even required the item to be boxed, just return the item as is.


----------



## bladefd

RikudouGoku said:


> I have been burned enough to the point where I dont care about a product (TWS AND wired) that doesnt have graphs.
> A graph is very helpful to get a read on the tonality. If I saw that graph of the FIIL T1 Lite before I bought it, I wouldnt have wasted my money on it....
> 
> 
> Still very annoying to have to return it if I dont like it.


A graph will tell you if it's v-shaped or neutral or bass-heavy, but you can't judge overall sound quality off that alone. You can also equalize the frequency on most TWS, as long as they have an app to tweak the hardware frequency (Android has 'wavelet' too for tweaking the frequencies on the software end).


----------



## Tommy C

RikudouGoku said:


> I have been burned enough to the point where I dont care about a product (TWS AND wired) that doesnt have graphs.
> A graph is very helpful to get a read on the tonality. If I saw that graph of the FIIL T1 Lite before I bought it, I wouldnt have wasted my money on it....
> 
> 
> Still very annoying to have to return it if I dont like it.



Personally I think graphs obviously give you a general idea but better to have a hands-on experience with the product to decide if it’s right for you but to each their own.


----------



## dweaver

I caved... Shoppers Drug Mart still had 1 pair of CX400BT for $80 so I grabbed em...

They remind me alot of my MTW but I did like that TWS they just died because of the case. So these for the price I paid is pretty good in my opinion. Just updating the firmware.

Does this model have hear through? They said said they do when I went into the app but a double click on my right bud is causing it to skip forward instead of enabling hear through, could it be remembers a setting I had on the old MTW?


----------



## Falsehaven

So what do the Canadians in here recommend for up to around $200, I am looking at Technics EAH-AZ70W-K, or CX plus. My needs are really ANC and a good connection, sound wise its mostly for transit and work so I wont be doing to much active listening.


----------



## Tommy C

dweaver said:


> I caved... Shoppers Drug Mart still had 1 pair of CX400BT for $80 so I grabbed em...
> 
> They remind me alot of my MTW but I did like that TWS they just died because of the case. So these for the price I paid is pretty good in my opinion. Just updating the firmware.
> 
> Does this model have hear through? They said said they do when I went into the app but a double click on my right bud is causing it to skip forward instead of enabling hear through, could it be remembers a setting I had on the old MTW?


Congrats! I'm really enjoying them but they don't have hear through unless this was added in recent FW update but I doubt that the case because the mic is in the right bud only. 
Also I find them to sound best with a bit of eq tweak for the mids and treble and with different tips.


----------



## Tommy C (Oct 14, 2021)

Falsehaven said:


> So what do the Canadians in here recommend for up to around $200, I am looking at Technics EAH-AZ70W-K, or CX plus. My needs are really ANC and a good connection, sound wise its mostly for transit and work so I wont be doing to much active listening.


Good options you mentioned overall and to add to this, the Soundcore Liberty 3 Pro from Amazon at $180 CAD looks really nice and their app is one of the best for EQ and other features.
EDIT: Bose QuietComfort buds are on sale for $250 CAD which is above your budget a bit but the ANC is king.


----------



## dweaver

The CX Plus is cheaper normally but the AZ70 can be bought for just about the same price when on sale which happens quite often.

The AZ70 will be brighter sounding with good sub bass but no mid bass hump. Its a leaner sound signature with good detail. Its ANC is very good but not Sony good. 

The CX Plus will have a bit harder hitting bass from what I have read and comparing it to the CX400BT I have which is warmer sounding than the AZ70 with a bit more mid bass hump.

It really boils down to signature preference as they both fit well at least to my ears. If your ears are a bit small the AZ70 is bigger in size by a bit so the CX will fit better.


----------



## dweaver

Tommy C said:


> Congrats! I'm really enjoying them but they don't have hear through unless this was added in recent FW update but I doubt that the case because the mic is in the right bud only.
> Also I find them to sound best with a bit of eq tweak for the mids and treble and with different tips.


I was wondering about the hear through feature. I suspect it just gave me a canned walk through. Man the update is slowwwwwww lol


----------



## Tommy C

dweaver said:


> The CX Plus is cheaper normally but the AZ70 can be bought for just about the same price when on sale which happens quite often.
> 
> The AZ70 will be brighter sounding with good sub bass but no mid bass hump. Its a leaner sound signature with good detail. Its ANC is very good but not Sony good.
> 
> ...



Just to add to this. From what I read the CX Plus has more bass than the CX 400BT as the latter is more balanced and open sounding while the CX Plus hits harder.


----------



## Tommy C

dweaver said:


> I was wondering about the hear through feature. I suspect it just gave me a canned walk through. Man the update is slowwwwwww lol


To what version are you updating? 
Mine came with 2.13.0 and it says it's up to date.


----------



## erockg

dweaver said:


> The CX Plus is cheaper normally but the AZ70 can be bought for just about the same price when on sale which happens quite often.
> 
> The AZ70 will be brighter sounding with good sub bass but no mid bass hump. Its a leaner sound signature with good detail. Its ANC is very good but not Sony good.
> 
> ...


... and fit.  The CX Plus fit me waaaaay better than the AZ70s did.  Looking forward to trying the AZ60s for sure.  They look smaller and might fit me better.


----------



## BooleanBones

erockg said:


> ... and fit.  The CX Plus fit me waaaaay better than the AZ70s did.  Looking forward to trying the AZ60s for sure.  They look smaller and might fit me better.


The Technics don’t have wireless charging right? Couldn’t really tell, but doesn’t seam to mention.


----------



## dweaver

erockg said:


> ... and fit.  The CX Plus fit me waaaaay better than the AZ70s did.  Looking forward to trying the AZ60s for sure.  They look smaller and might fit me better.


I have a fairly large concha so the AZ70 fit but they are bigger. I am looking forward to the AZ60 for size and some of its features.

I actually really like the shape of the CX400BT the box shape make these really easy to grab without impacting their comfort.

Sennheiser simply cut a corner or two on features on this model putting it at a disadvantage with other products. Sonically speaking for music it is very good. I will have to compare to what I have but just giving these a listen, they sound as good as anything I own. I think they sound better than the WF1000XM3 and a bit better than the Status Between Pro (not quite as warm, so more a preference thing). They have better passive isolation than the ANC mode of the Galaxy Bud Pro. I rate them very similar to the AZ70 for sound quality just different in signature.


----------



## Tommy C

dweaver said:


> I have a fairly large concha so the AZ70 fit but they are bigger. I am looking forward to the AZ60 for size and some of its features.
> 
> I actually really like the shape of the CX400BT the box shape make these really easy to grab without impacting their comfort.
> 
> Sennheiser simply cut a corner or two on features on this model putting it at a disadvantage with other products. Sonically speaking for music it is very good. I will have to compare to what I have but just giving these a listen, they sound as good as anything I own. I think they sound better than the WF1000XM3 and a bit better than the Status Between Pro (not quite as warm, so more a preference thing). They have better passive isolation than the ANC mode of the Galaxy Bud Pro. I rate them very similar to the AZ70 for sound quality just different in signature.


And th Senn have multipoint connectivity, sort of. You need to go to the app and switch to the other device. Very useful to me despite not being fully hands off.


----------



## dweaver

Will have to check that feature out, thanks for the tip .


----------



## Tommy C

dweaver said:


> Will have to check that feature out, thanks for the tip .



When you go to the Sennheiser app it’s under Connections.


----------



## bladefd

Has anyone actually compared the CX400BT with the CX plus? 

I would be very curious since I'm already familiar with the CX400bt. I compared the CX400bt, AZ70, and Sony xm3 back in December. I thought CX400BT had the best sound quality and best soundstage. Especially in the lows & highs. I believe AZ70 had the best, clearest mids though. From the 3, the cx400bt had the best sound + had aptx but least features, looked cheaply built, and fit/comfort issues. If they solved those issues on the CX plus, it would be a steal for $170.


----------



## Tommy C

bladefd said:


> Has anyone actually compared the CX400BT with the CX plus?
> 
> I would be very curious since I'm already familiar with the CX400bt. I compared the CX400bt, AZ70, and Sony xm3 back in December. I thought CX400BT had the best sound quality and best soundstage. Especially in the lows & highs. I believe AZ70 had the best, clearest mids though. From the 3, the cx400bt had the best sound + had aptx but least features, looked cheaply built, and fit/comfort issues. If they solved those issues on the CX plus, it would be a steal for $170.


I found this comparison below between the CX 400BT and the CX but not the CX Plus. I assumed the CX and CX Plus are identical other than the ANC but seems like some people feel like the CX Plus and the CX have different tuning so not sure. 
https://www.scarbir.com/tws/sennheiser-cx-review


----------



## dweaver

I believe the  CX Plus is a bit smaller and from other reviewers it has harder bass than the 400BT. But definitely more features. I am not sure I would want more bass than what I am hearing now though, but that can be tamed by the EQ. 

At $80 the 400BT offer amazing sound quality. I don't feel they are to plasticky, no more so than the Samsung Galaxy Buds Pro or the WF1000XM3. 

At their original price though that would be a tougher sell...


----------



## VICosPhi

Tommy C said:


> I found this comparison below between the CX 400BT and the CX but not the CX Plus. I assumed the CX and CX Plus are identical other than the ANC but seems like some people feel like the CX Plus and the CX have different tuning so not sure.
> https://www.scarbir.com/tws/sennheiser-cx-review





bladefd said:


> Has anyone actually compared the CX400BT with the CX plus?
> 
> I would be very curious since I'm already familiar with the CX400bt. I compared the CX400bt, AZ70, and Sony xm3 back in December. I thought CX400BT had the best sound quality and best soundstage. Especially in the lows & highs. I believe AZ70 had the best, clearest mids though. From the 3, the cx400bt had the best sound + had aptx but least features, looked cheaply built, and fit/comfort issues. If they solved those issues on the CX plus, it would be a steal for $170.


This guy does very good reviews and has a thorough comparison between CX Plus and CX400


----------



## bladefd

Tommy C said:


> I found this comparison below between the CX 400BT and the CX but not the CX Plus. I assumed the CX and CX Plus are identical other than the ANC but seems like some people feel like the CX Plus and the CX have different tuning so not sure.
> https://www.scarbir.com/tws/sennheiser-cx-review


Mmm, looks very similar in size. Seems compelling for $130, but I didn't like that shell with the 400bt. I guess I will pass for now. 

This is the 2nd time I considered the CX in less than a week and passed on it lol. Damn, the CA MT frustrations keeps making me double-guess and look into TWS options. The grass always seems greener on the other side lol


----------



## bladefd (Oct 15, 2021)

Hmm, read in a review the CX series doesn't have Sennheiser's high-end sound tuning tech, which is only on the MTW2. I have a feeling Sennheiser must have an upgrade coming to the MTW2. MTW2 has high-end sound tuning but still on BT 5.1, no aptx adaptive, and 7hrs battery life (new CX series is BT 5.2, has aptx adaptive, has 9hrs). Can you see that not getting upgraded?? I can't. They also dropped the price of MTW2 to $200 just a month ago. All signs are pointing to an upgrade coming soon.


----------



## Tommy C

bladefd said:


> Mmm, looks very similar in size. Seems compelling for $130, but I didn't like that shell with the 400bt. I guess I will pass for now.
> 
> This is the 2nd time I considered the CX in less than a week and passed on it lol. Damn, the CA MT frustrations keeps making me double-guess and look into TWS options. The grass always seems greener on the other side lol


I know what you mean. The CA MT issues made me look elsewhere and led me to to the L2P+ which I ended up returning as well.

If you don’t need ANC and ambient mode the CX 400BT at $90 are a great value however for me they work usually at home when I walk around, cooking, cleaning etc and don’t need these features but if I were to get a one set do all it will be something else most likely.


----------



## dweaver (Oct 15, 2021)

I avoided Sennheiser since I bought the original MTW. Way to much money on a product that had so many issues. I refused to get pulled in again. At $80 though the CX400BT became worth trying. Truth be told I am glad I waited  on one hand due to the savings but should have given them a try sooner. Would not/will not by the MTW2 though I have decided $200 is the max I will pay for a TWS.

Just spent some time going through a few songs that showcase sub-bass and these are pretty polite in that region so not great for some sound track music like Hans Zimmer Interstellar but good for rock due to the mid-bass. I am finding myself cranking these up to about 3/4 volume which means they are either quieter than my AZ70 and Gbuds Pro or I am missing the energy of those headphones.


----------



## bladefd

dweaver said:


> I avoided Sennheiser since I bought the original MTW. Way to much money on a product that had so many issues. I refused to get pulled in again. At $80 though the CX400BT became worth trying. Truth be told I am glad I waited  on one hand due to the savings but should have given them a try sooner. Would not/will not by the MTW2 though I have decided $200 is the max I will pay for a TWS.
> 
> Just spent some time going through a few songs that showcase sub-bass as these are pretty polite in that region so not great for some sound track music like Hans Zimmer Interstellar but good for rock due to the mid-bass. I am finding myself cranking these up to about 3/4 volume which means they are either quieter than my AZ70 and Gbuds Pro or I am missing the energy of those headphones.


400BT were louder than the Sony wf-1000xm3. Don't think I still had the AZ70 then to test loudness. It probably was pretty close during my A/B test to not be easily noticeable.

I jotted down lag time on the Sennheiser was the worst of the 3. Sony was the best.


----------



## Tommy C

dweaver said:


> I avoided Sennheiser since I bought the original MTW. Way to much money on a product that had so many issues. I refused to get pulled in again. At $80 though the CX400BT became worth trying. Truth be told I am glad I waited  on one hand due to the savings but should have given them a try sooner. Would not/will not by the MTW2 though I have decided $200 is the max I will pay for a TWS.
> 
> Just spent some time going through a few songs that showcase sub-bass and these are pretty polite in that region so not great for some sound track music like Hans Zimmer Interstellar but good for rock due to the mid-bass. I am finding myself cranking these up to about 3/4 volume which means they are either quieter than my AZ70 and Gbuds Pro or I am missing the energy of those headphones.


I do too find them a bit quieter compared to other TWS but it’s still decent and loud enough for me. 
eq isn’t great but will give you some extra bass. I like them for mostly acoustics tracks, pop and random stuff. They are pretty versatile. 
like you I’m not planning to spend more than $200 on a set of TWS but may splurge for the Shure TW2 adapter at the end.


----------



## VICosPhi

bladefd said:


> Hmm, read in a review the CX series doesn't have Sennheiser's high-end sound tuning tech, which is only on the MTW2. I have a feeling Sennheiser must have an upgrade coming to the MTW2. MTW2 has high-end sound tuning but still on BT 5.1, no aptx adaptive, and 7hrs battery life (new CX series is BT 5.2, has aptx adaptive, has 9hrs). Can you see that not getting upgraded?? I can't. They also dropped the price of MTW2 to $200 just a month ago. All signs are pointing to an upgrade coming soon.


Looking at the past, Sennheiser has released MTW in Feb-March timeframe, but now that their consumer division was sold off to another company maybe they will release something sooner! Of all the TWS, the MTW2 are the only ones that come close to my FiiO FH7 and Unique Melody MEST so I can't wait for MTW3. High hopes


----------



## voicemaster

Been listening with liberty 3 pro and it sounds pretty darn good. HearID is kinda useless tbh because it just make the treble too bright and the soundcore default EQ setting is already bright enough. Luckily, the custom EQ is quite good and very responsive too. Connection has been solid. 
Here is my custom EQ


----------



## Kathiravan JLR

Currently testing out the oppo enco x and man this sound damn good!! I don’t know why no audiophiles are covering this tws since this has the planar magnetic driver in a tws! This really sounds freaking good 🙌❤️💯


----------



## scottsays

Just picked up the 
Monster Inspiration 700 ANC Wireless Earbuds​Great sound and excellent fit---best I have found for a tws.  Amazon has on sale now--60% off---cost was $ 63 after tax

https://www.amazon.com/Monster-Insp...ncoding=UTF8&refRID=3S97A8KH80XNW7FYMNM8&th=1

Serious bargain!


----------



## BigZ12

scubaphish said:


> Edit: ok, if I move them around in my ears with ANC high on I hear the popping. I sometimes get similar with transparency high.


Hope I didn't ruin them for you 
But you don't hear the driver flex like noise when chewing? Have you tried running/jumping?


----------



## nijfi

voicemaster said:


> Been listening with liberty 3 pro and it sounds pretty darn good. HearID is kinda useless tbh because it just make the treble too bright and the soundcore default EQ setting is already bright enough. Luckily, the custom EQ is quite good and very responsive too. Connection has been solid.
> Here is my custom EQ


Every single review I've read has said that the HearID tuning has made it too bright for them. 
What are you pairing them with? And what files are you mainly listening to?


----------



## diimaan

Little off topic though! I remember someone mentioned having Beoplay H95! I do not have one but I do have a Beoplay Portal.
Can any of you comment on the connectivity with Jabra Link 380 and Beoplay? I am trying to make the connection and the Jabra never detects Beoplay but it defects every other TWS I have


----------



## scubaphish

BigZ12 said:


> Hope I didn't ruin them for you
> But you don't hear the driver flex like noise when chewing? Have you tried running/jumping?


Ha, yeah, started to hear it a lot more; and yes it would drive me crazy if I heard that all the time. I tend to jam them in so the bud part really makes way into my ear canal so they don’t move around while walking. That and using low for both transparency and anc has kept the popping at bey. But I totally understand your experience now. Don’t get from chewing and I don’t work out with them, but when walking if they come loose I’ll hear some pops, no crinkle unless on high and pushing on them. No noise when just shaking my head. That said, I can get small pop when tapping on them for controls. Still sound amazing to me much more than not.

Edit: Yes, jumping can give me pops


----------



## scubaphish (Oct 15, 2021)

scottsays said:


> Just picked up the
> Monster Inspiration 700 ANC Wireless Earbuds​Great sound and excellent fit---best I have found for a tws.  Amazon has on sale now--60% off---cost was $ 63 after tax
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/Monster-Insp...ncoding=UTF8&refRID=3S97A8KH80XNW7FYMNM8&th=1
> ...


Wow, and returnable until Jan 31, 2022. Really giving time to try them out. Guess they’re already doing holiday returns.


----------



## Mouseman

voicemaster said:


> Been listening with liberty 3 pro and it sounds pretty darn good. HearID is kinda useless tbh because it just make the treble too bright and the soundcore default EQ setting is already bright enough. Luckily, the custom EQ is quite good and very responsive too. Connection has been solid.
> Here is my custom EQ


I don't have mine yet (they're in the mail), but I've always found HearID to not give me a sound I like. It's good that it's there for people to try, but it's been fairly worthless for me. 

The custom EQ is great, I hope my current settings carry over from the L2P.


----------



## Skev

Got the Jabra Elite 7 Active today.

The case feels cheap, it's plastic, like hard plastic on the outside, not the same grippy material the 75t Actives have.

The buds feel larger in my ears than the 75t Active's as well, they may be smaller but somehow feel bigger.

The sound although actually pleasantly tuned, especially on "smooth" EQ, sounds quite thin and distant. There's not enough impact. I preferred the 75t Active's with a touch of EQ.

The ANC I didn't even bother trying and the Hearthrough is actually quite good. Not that effective when volume is up a bit.

Being able to use either bud in ear didn't do much for me as the controls stay the same when one is removed. Meaning if I kept the left in I don't have playback control.

For me I'd rather save £50 and get the Elite 75t Active's instead.

A big fail imo! Expected more.


----------



## Caipirina

erockg said:


> Not sure if something new is on the horizon, but $199 is a steal for the Bose Quietcomfort ANC buds.  I'm taking a second spin here because I read they added an EQ to the app.  Edit: Maybe I'm wrong about the EQ.  We'll see...
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08C4KWM9T?smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER&ref_=chk_typ_imgToDp&th=1


You are correct, there are a bunch of new additions now with new app (maybe also FW?) 
Modes: you can create different modes, right now I only have quiet and aware .. and I can circle through those, that's an improvement over before where you had fixed 3 placeholders for ANC intensity. 
EQ: It's basic, but works, 4 presents, which then can be customized
Source: I like this one, it remembers the last (9?) connected devices by name and you can use the button in the case to cycle through and it automatically connects to that one .. no 'unpair' or 'forget device' on source first. 

These have become my main buds ... I was missing a bit of 'uuumphh', but now with EQ I can add that easily.


----------



## BobJS

Liberty 3 Pro was just delivered.  Looks like very nice packaging, tips, and wings.  I'm letting it charge right now.  I did note that the case is a bit slick.  I'm thinking of trying to transfer the cellophane "Open" tab that came on the case of the LP 2 Pro to this case.  If it doesn't work I may rig up something similar.


----------



## voicemaster

nijfi said:


> Every single review I've read has said that the HearID tuning has made it too bright for them.
> What are you pairing them with? And what files are you mainly listening to?


My pc and Samsung S21ultra. And I listen to mp3 and youtube mostly.


----------



## erockg

BooleanBones said:


> The Technics don’t have wireless charging right? Couldn’t really tell, but doesn’t seam to mention.


They don't.  That's what makes me wait on them.


----------



## voicemaster

Mouseman said:


> I don't have mine yet (they're in the mail), but I've always found HearID to not give me a sound I like. It's good that it's there for people to try, but it's been fairly worthless for me.
> 
> The custom EQ is great, I hope my current settings carry over from the L2P.


Yeah, it is just a gimmick for sound (HearID), but for the ANC, it is quite useful actually.
I don't have L2P so I don't know how it sounds, but the L3P is pretty mainstream sounding tuning wise. The drivers are capable and has potential to sound great imho. The custom EQ is a huge win for me. Also, I like a little bit more bass on my TWS because outside noise and wind noise tend to "reduce" the bass.


----------



## jant71

Skev said:


> Got the Jabra Elite 7 Active today.
> 
> The case feels cheap, it's plastic, like hard plastic on the outside, not the same grippy material the 75t Actives have.
> 
> ...



I got turned off the 7's. You can see in some of the comparison vids people prefer the Elite 3 and 75T over the 7's both Pro and Active. I know the 3 have aptX and the 7 don't. The case is still the more ideal shape. The buds are a bit better for size and shape. As I said in my impressions I like that the 3 shift controls so they still work fine. Kinda dumb to keep ambient on the L with only that side being used. No aptX and dumb means probably means a different chip. The 3 are a good price at $79 and the 7 Active at $179 are not.


----------



## nijfi

voicemaster said:


> My pc and Samsung S21ultra. And I listen to mp3 and youtube mostly.


Ok, thanks.  Mine are on order. I'm interested to see how they perform with FLAC files on my Sony ZX300 over LDAC.

I don't realistically expect them to compete with my wired options, but for on the go listening and convenience, I'm hoping to get a decent tune out of them at least.

Good to read that your overall first impressions are positive.


----------



## Tommy C

scottsays said:


> Just picked up the
> Monster Inspiration 700 ANC Wireless Earbuds​Great sound and excellent fit---best I have found for a tws.  Amazon has on sale now--60% off---cost was $ 63 after tax
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/Monster-Insp...ncoding=UTF8&refRID=3S97A8KH80XNW7FYMNM8&th=1
> ...



I had them. They are good.  Bass is big but not extremely boomy. 
If my memory serves me well they use the same chipset as the Nuratrue. 
Downside is that they have no app to adjust eq.


----------



## TK33 (Oct 15, 2021)

jant71 said:


> I got turned off the 7's. You can see in some of the comparison vids people prefer the Elite 3 and 75T over the 7's both Pro and Active. I know the 3 have aptX and the 7 don't. The case is still the more ideal shape. The buds are a bit better for size and shape. As I said in my impressions I like that the 3 shift controls so they still work fine. Kinda dumb to keep ambient on the L with only that side being used. No aptX and dumb means probably means a different chip. The 3 are a good price at $79 and the 7 Active at $179 are not.


Very disappointed in this release. I will be passing on the Elite 7.  For a TWS that was touted as designed for calls, there were a few things which turned me off (I was really looking for something to improve call quality over Zoom/Teams):

1. On the Amazon Q&A, someone asked if this was "Teams Certified" (didn't know that was a thing) and Jabra basically said it was designed to be used with phones and tablets (a way of saying no without actually saying it I guess).

2. I asked the following on Amazon:

Q: During a call, can you swap between left and right earbuds seamlessly using anly side at a time (without disconnecting/reconnecting)?

I received the following response from "Manufacturer" (presumably Jabra):

A: Hello!  We do not recommend swapping left/right earbud during a call.  Thank you.

3. If it is primarily meant for calls, why ditch the vented design from the 85T? I asked on Reddit and they said they will forward the feedback.  Hopefully there is an Elite 8.

4. Just hard to get over the fact that the Elite 3 has aptX and the Elite 7 does not.  Definitely wins the prize for the most confusing lineup.

Maybe user feedback will change my mind but, for now, I will be passing on this one as well


----------



## nijfi

BobJS said:


> Liberty 3 Pro was just delivered.  Looks like very nice packaging, tips, and wings.  I'm letting it charge right now.  I did note that the case is a bit slick.  I'm thinking of trying to transfer the cellophane "Open" tab that came on the case of the LP 2 Pro to this case.  If it doesn't work I may rig up something similar.


I've seen on eBay that you can get a tight fitting silicone case for the 2's.  Looks like it'll be nice and grippy and they come in a variety of colours.

Perhaps they'll bring out something similar for the 3's ?


----------



## BobJS

nijfi said:


> I've seen on eBay that you can get a tight fitting silicone case for the 2's.  Looks like it'll be nice and grippy and they come in a variety of colours.
> 
> Perhaps they'll bring out something similar for the 3's ?



I don't think that will help me.  I'm strictly concerned with gripping the top of the case while sliding it back to take out or replace the earbuds.  Putting a little tab on the top might aid with that.  Or just leave it as is; not a big deal.


----------



## nijfi

BobJS said:


> I don't think that will help me.  I'm strictly concerned with gripping the top of the case while sliding it back to take out or replace the earbuds.  Putting a little tab on the top might aid with that.  Or just leave it as is; not a big deal.


This case goes on the earbuds case, not a case to put the earbuds case into, if you see what I mean. The pictures show the top having a little ridge on it too to aid with sliding it back.  No idea quite how the top will stay on though, given there can't be much purchase area there for it to stay. Perhaps the top section sticks on, whilst the bottom wraps around?


----------



## jsmiller58

In terms of the Soundcore HearID, I too find the results bright…. But I think that should not be too surprising…. Many of us will lose a bit of our high frequency hearing as we age and / or abuse our hearing with too loud sounds.  If the upper frequencies are then restored (amplified) by something like SoundID we may dislike the result because we are not used to hearing those high frequencies as prominently.  

Try to listen for a few hours with the SoundID corrected EQ enabled and then disable it…. My guess is that you might be surprised at how you feel the sound without SoundID sounds muffled…. An example of brain burnin to be sure.

Just my 2 cents, of course.


----------



## nijfi

jsmiller58 said:


> In terms of the Soundcore HearID, I too find the results bright…. But I think that should not be too surprising…. Many of us will lose a bit of our high frequency hearing as we age and / or abuse our hearing with too loud sounds.  If the upper frequencies are then restored (amplified) by something like SoundID we may dislike the result because we are not used to hearing those high frequencies as prominently.
> 
> Try to listen for a few hours with the SoundID corrected EQ enabled and then disable it…. My guess is that you might be surprised at how you feel the sound without SoundID sounds muffled…. An example of brain burnin to be sure.
> 
> Just my 2 cents, of course.


I like your thinking. Great angle to go at it. Makes perfect sense to me.


----------



## erockg

Caipirina said:


> You are correct, there are a bunch of new additions now with new app (maybe also FW?)
> Modes: you can create different modes, right now I only have quiet and aware .. and I can circle through those, that's an improvement over before where you had fixed 3 placeholders for ANC intensity.
> EQ: It's basic, but works, 4 presents, which then can be customized
> Source: I like this one, it remembers the last (9?) connected devices by name and you can use the button in the case to cycle through and it automatically connects to that one .. no 'unpair' or 'forget device' on source first.
> ...


Had to return and repurchase mine today.  Left bud died and I can't get it to power on.  Packing them up now.  

Good news though, I repurchased directly from Bose and managed to save an additional $30 off the $199 sale through ID.me.  Total cost $169.  Now THAT is a even better price!


----------



## BobJS

LP 3 Pro problem -- I'm using a Samsung Galaxy S10+ which I've successfully connected using LDAC with other devices.

I updated the firmware on the LP 3 Pro to "latest".  The Soundcore app lets me select and keep LDAC setting.  When I select LDAC codec in my phone blue tooth settings however, it doesn't "stick"  -- it reverts back to AAC.  Which is a bummer as APTX isn't even available.  If there's no solution to this, these are going back.


----------



## voicemaster

BobJS said:


> LP 3 Pro problem -- I'm using a Samsung Galaxy S10+ which I've successfully connected using LDAC with other devices.
> 
> I updated the firmware on the LP 3 Pro to "latest".  The Soundcore app lets me select and keep LDAC setting.  When I select LDAC codec in my phone blue tooth settings however, it doesn't "stick"  -- it reverts back to AAC.  Which is a bummer as APTX isn't even available.  If there's no solution to this, these are going back.


Hm...mine stay when I tried LDAC last night. I went to developer options and choose LDAC then in the bluetooth setting, there is a toggle to switch it on/off. I am using s21ultra.


----------



## BobJS

voicemaster said:


> Hm...mine stay when I tried LDAC last night. I went to developer options and choose LDAC then in the bluetooth setting, there is a toggle to switch it on/off. I am using s21ultra.



You're right.  My bad.  I just stayed in developer settings and selected ldac.  I forgot to enable it back in the bluetooth settings.  All good.

Thanks!


----------



## voicemaster (Oct 15, 2021)

Here is some screenshot


I tried it last night, but I only play a YouTube videos and mp3 so it was kinda pointless lol.


----------



## nijfi

Complete newbie to wireless listening question please, if I may?  Regarding the Liberty 3 Pro.

Can I just pair the LP3's with my non Android DAP straight out of the box first via LDAC and then see what sound I get? Or will I have to switch on LDAC in them by setting everything up first on the app on my phone?

Assuming it's the latter. Can I play around with sound settings in the app whilst I'm listening on my DAP? Or will I have to listen on my phone first to adjust everything and then disconnect the phone to switch over to the DAP.

I'm reading about 'multipoint' being on them. So I was hoping I can just switch between the DAP and phone whilst I'm setting everything up on the phone? Or have I completely misunderstood?

Thanks in advance for any help.


----------



## Tommy C

Kathiravan JLR said:


> Currently testing out the oppo enco x and man this sound damn good!! I don’t know why no audiophiles are covering this tws since this has the planar magnetic driver in a tws! This really sounds freaking good 🙌❤️💯


Mostly due to the limited iOS support and the not so cheap price tag. 
For $250 or more around $300 locally after tax/ duty you have many other options. 

I'll also make a bold statement, that outside of Head-Fi not many people that I know who are Android users will drop that kind of money on a set of TWS.


----------



## Tommy C (Oct 15, 2021)

Caipirina said:


> You are correct, there are a bunch of new additions now with new app (maybe also FW?)
> Modes: you can create different modes, right now I only have quiet and aware .. and I can circle through those, that's an improvement over before where you had fixed 3 placeholders for ANC intensity.
> EQ: It's basic, but works, 4 presents, which then can be customized
> Source: I like this one, it remembers the last (9?) connected devices by name and you can use the button in the case to cycle through and it automatically connects to that one .. no 'unpair' or 'forget device' on source first.
> ...



Really seems like they upgraded their app and features.
I'm sure they are comfy and sound very good, just don't know if I can get used to the form factor.


----------



## CocaCola15 (Oct 15, 2021)

Soundcore L3P arrived yesterday; could there be worse OOB tuning? Tried HearID process and it was a "fizzy" outcome. Didn't try to EQ the HearID settings, instead went direct to the custom settings/EQ and I can't believe how much I had to boost the bass and turn down the top end; left the mids pretty much, well, in the middle. First blush, even with the EQ the highs sounded a bit too sharp, not smooth. I messed with EQ some more and pretty much found the best EQ I think I will find. Took a walk with ANC on and they feel and sound great, but ... is it me or is the headroom just not enough? I don't listen very loudly, and with my new iPhone 13 Pro and the Kaiser Audio app (EQ off) the detail, sound and all that good stuff was excellent. I just wanted to boost the volume a wee bit more, but it hit the ceiling and fell short. YouTube reviewers claim they are loud, loud and loud if you want them to be. I didn't find that. I will try them out on the LG V20 I have around here as a music player, but that defeats the purpose: I only use TW IEMs outside the house, walking etc. Inside, it's full-sized or on-ear ANC cans, or the Ety ER4XR with custom tips. Just don't much use TW IEMs in the house. With the LG, I can try the LDAC format, which is nice.

So for a 30-minute walk in a noisy city, the ANC was excellent, as was the detail/SQ after my EQing work.  Not sure I really need the added headroom, they were not quiet, just a tad more is all I wanted. Maybe the headphone gods are sending me a message about keeping my ears functional as I get even older! Time to play around with them some more. If I read correctly an earlier poster said to use the HearID settings and THEN EQ those and they will sound better than straight up custom function on the EQ? I'll try that too. No harm in it.

On the fence right now re keeping the L3P, though they do really sound nice in terms of detail, soundstage and all the other good stuff. And the fit, for me, was perfect right out of the box, medium tips etc. Very comfortable. I don't know the controls yet, but I do know a single tap is to answer a call (one came in while on the walk and I guessed right).


----------



## voicemaster

nijfi said:


> Complete newbie to wireless listening question please, if I may?  Regarding the Liberty 3 Pro.
> 
> Can I just pair the LP3's with my non Android DAP straight out of the box first via LDAC and then see what sound I get? Or will I have to switch on LDAC in them by setting everything up first on the app on my phone?
> 
> ...


I was connected to both my pc and s21ultra at the same time. I adjusted the EQ in my phone while playing music from my pc and it works. Is that answering your question?


----------



## nijfi

voicemaster said:


> I was connected to both my pc and s21ultra at the same time. I adjusted the EQ in my phone while playing music from my pc and it works. Is that answering your question?


Answers my question perfectly I think.

Thanks


----------



## jant71 (Oct 15, 2021)

nijfi said:


> Complete newbie to wireless listening question please, if I may?  Regarding the Liberty 3 Pro.
> 
> Can I just pair the LP3's with my non Android DAP straight out of the box first via LDAC and then see what sound I get? Or will I have to switch on LDAC in them by setting everything up first on the app on my phone?
> 
> ...


No. It does not work quite that way. The codec comes from the device so you do not switch LDAC on "in them" and it just works. If the device, the DAP in this instance, has LDAC it will connect to that device in LDAC either automatically or in the DAPs BT settings. In other words the set-up is separate to each device so multipoint is to switch between two devices easily by being be connected to both at the same time but the SQ is not on the LP3 it is on the devices. EQ setting may be stored on the LP3 but not the codec which is dictated from each device not from the buds so LDAC in the app or on the phone first has nothing to do with the DAP.


----------



## nijfi

jant71 said:


> No. It does not work that way. The codec comes from the device so you do not switch LDAC on "in them" and it just works. If the device, the DAP in this instance, has LDAC it will connect to that device in LDAC either automatically or in the DAPs BT settings. In other words the set-up is separate to each device so multipoint is to switch between two devices easily by being be connected to both at the same time but the SQ is not on the LP3 it is on the devices. EQ setting may be stored on the LP3 but not the codec.


Ok thanks.

Yes, my Sony ZX300 has LDAC and I've already gone in there in preparation and set Bluetooth settings to LDAC sound quality preferred (I've not actually used Bluetooth on it yet).

But I'm getting the impression that the LP3'S need their firmware updating on first use though to enable LDAC anyway?

I think I get what you saying though. If I was connected to my phone (SDC) and my DAP (LDAC), the LP3'S would just switch between the different codecs depending on the chosen codec setting on the device I'm paired with?


----------



## voicemaster

nijfi said:


> Ok thanks.
> 
> Yes, my Sony ZX300 has LDAC and I've already gone in there in preparation and set Bluetooth settings to LDAC sound quality preferred (I've not actually used Bluetooth on it yet).
> 
> ...


Yes it will need firmware 04.51 to use LDAC. The software will make a pop up message telling you to update the FW.
*If I was connected to my phone (SDC) and my DAP (LDAC), the LP3'S would just switch between the different codecs depending on the chosen codec setting on the device I'm paired with? *The LDAC setting on the soundcore software won't allow you to do multipoint connection while on LDAC anyway.


----------



## nijfi

voicemaster said:


> Yes it will need firmware 04.51 to use LDAC. The software will make a pop up message telling you to update the FW.
> *If I was connected to my phone (SDC) and my DAP (LDAC), the LP3'S would just switch between the different codecs depending on the chosen codec setting on the device I'm paired with? *The LDAC setting on the soundcore software won't allow you to do multipoint connection while on LDAC anyway.


Thanks.  So if I'm understanding correctly?

1. Update firmware via the app on my phone.

2. Pair and listen on my phone with SDC and adjust EQ's to get the sound I most like.

3. When listening on my DAP (pretty much all my listening will be done using the DAP when out and about), switch the app to LDAC and, Voila!, I'm now listening over LDAC with the sound settings saved in the LP3'S, but any further EQing from here, should it be needed, will need to be done on the DAP. (I'll find the sound I like and save it as a setting on the DAP, so I can easily revert back to my saved setting there that I already use when wired).

Thanks for all the screenshots btw. Really helpful to go along with the instructions.


----------



## voicemaster

nijfi said:


> Thanks.  So if I'm understanding correctly?
> 
> 1. Update firmware via the app on my phone.
> 
> ...


1. yes
2. the best way is if you have a phone that can do LDAC then you just need to play an uncompressed file from your phone to adjust the EQ
3. from my understanding, the EQ that you set in the soundcore app will be saved to the IEM. So it become the base when connecting to a device without soundcore app. you can still adjust the EQ from your DAP if you want and it won't change the saved EQ inside the IEM. 

Actually I am just thinking the EQ in the soundcore app is only 8 bands EQ and my S21Ultra has a built in 9 bands EQ, then I can fine tune the EQ even further although it will only work when pairing the L3P to my phone.


----------



## VICosPhi

To all of you that have already received Liberty 3 Pros, where did you buy from? I placed a preorder last week on Bestbuy's site and no ETA as of yet!


----------



## clerkpalmer

VICosPhi said:


> To all of you that have already received Liberty 3 Pros, where did you buy from? I placed a preorder last week on Bestbuy's site and no ETA as of yet!


It looks like these have made their way to my local best buy's in stock although at $169.99.  Has a consensus formed on these to date?  Worthy of picking up?


----------



## voicemaster

VICosPhi said:


> To all of you that have already received Liberty 3 Pros, where did you buy from? I placed a preorder last week on Bestbuy's site and no ETA as of yet!


Amazon


----------



## voicemaster

clerkpalmer said:


> It looks like these have made their way to my local best buy's in stock although at $169.99.  Has a consensus formed on these to date?  Worthy of picking up?


If you are okay with EQing then it is a very good sounding tws and the EQ is saved into the IEM. The sound pre EQ is too much bass and high for me, but it is easily remedy using the custom EQ. The soundstage is quite large and the separation is very good too. 
I tested the call this morning and my wife said the sound is clear while I was in starbucks. The ANC is better than my galaxy buds pro and the ANC hardly change the sound when active. Transparency mode sounds natural but can't be adjusted like in galaxy buds pro. 
Built quality is good. It is not too big and not too heavy either. The case is quite small and easily fit in my jeans pocket. The buds pro's case is smaller, but the shape makes it when I put it in my pocket, it create a bulge while the shape of the L3P case is slimmer thus it just fit more flush inside the pocket.
For $169, it is quite a steal imho.


----------



## jant71 (Oct 15, 2021)

A little interesting. We have a new AT filing...





TW sounds like/should be for true wireless?? Also listings for R and L which is done for the TWS and only one entry for headphones and single wire BT. Guess it would finally be an AT high end 9 series true wireless. And with the 360 spatial audio and Snapdragon Sound they might just be Qualcomm lossless capable? They are tested for Bluetooth LE so next gen but a long ways away as the date for pics and manual dates out to 4/11/22. Pretty sure we will see what these will be at CES.


----------



## Ceeluh7

I realize I am new to this group but I have been looking for a group of people who are knowledgeable in tws and audio in general. I've read many of the posts and.... Cool. Like minded people is always a good thing. Anyways,.... About the LP3... So far I am not at all impressed by the LP3 sound. Almost as though something is missing. Enough volume yet not crazy headroom. Tizzy highs. I've eq'd them almost to a decent point but still something is just not coherent in the sound between the Dynamic and the BA. To be honest I have yet to really anjoy and tws with LDAC. I figured I'd burn them in for a bit and try tip changes but... So far these might go back. I have the Grado GT220 coming tomorrow so I'm pretty happy about that.


----------



## Darkestred

VICosPhi said:


> To all of you that have already received Liberty 3 Pros, where did you buy from? I placed a preorder last week on Bestbuy's site and no ETA as of yet!



soundcore.  black arrive before the 20th.  Got mine today.

still thinnish mids but bass is deeper and more powerful.  Treble less artificial sounding.  Good fit.  Overall: happy.


----------



## darveniza

Had to wait for an appointment today and found this YouTube channel and decided to watch there tws reviews oh, they do a very good job and also include the frequency response graph a lot of the tws items are reviewing. I had never heard of them just stumble upon them and actually feels unbiased I saw the channels seem to be almost like pitching for certain manufacturers


----------



## Ceeluh7

darveniza said:


> Had to wait for an appointment today and found this YouTube channel and decided to watch there tws reviews oh, they do a very good job and also include the frequency response graph a lot of the tws items are reviewing. I had never heard of them just stumble upon them and actually feels unbiased I saw the channels seem to be almost like pitching for certain manufacturers



They are much more informative than many on YouTube. They make it easy to gather what sound sig they prefer which helps me get a better idea what a set actually sounds like...they go pretty in depth as well and cover many of the questions which may come up. You are right they do a great job in reviews


----------



## voicemaster

Ceeluh7 said:


> I realize I am new to this group but I have been looking for a group of people who are knowledgeable in tws and audio in general. I've read many of the posts and.... Cool. Like minded people is always a good thing. Anyways,.... About the LP3... So far I am not at all impressed by the LP3 sound. Almost as though something is missing. Enough volume yet not crazy headroom. Tizzy highs. I've eq'd them almost to a decent point but still something is just not coherent in the sound between the Dynamic and the BA. To be honest I have yet to really anjoy and tws with LDAC. I figured I'd burn them in for a bit and try tip changes but... So far these might go back. I have the Grado GT220 coming tomorrow so I'm pretty happy about that.


How long have you had it? Did you use the ANC or off normally? Did you use the HearID thing or custom EQ?


----------



## Mouseman

I'll have to see once I get my L3Ps, but I remember the L2Ps sounding pretty bad/thin at first. I wonder if the coaxial drivers need the burn in to shine. Mine will be here on Tuesday if the postal gods are cooperative.


----------



## clerkpalmer

voicemaster said:


> If you are okay with EQing then it is a very good sounding tws and the EQ is saved into the IEM. The sound pre EQ is too much bass and high for me, but it is easily remedy using the custom EQ. The soundstage is quite large and the separation is very good too.
> I tested the call this morning and my wife said the sound is clear while I was in starbucks. The ANC is better than my galaxy buds pro and the ANC hardly change the sound when active. Transparency mode sounds natural but can't be adjusted like in galaxy buds pro.
> Built quality is good. It is not too big and not too heavy either. The case is quite small and easily fit in my jeans pocket. The buds pro's case is smaller, but the shape makes it when I put it in my pocket, it create a bulge while the shape of the L3P case is slimmer thus it just fit more flush inside the pocket.
> For $169, it is quite a steal imho.


Thanks for the impressions. I'm on the fence here. Seems like maybe they lack cohesion when it comes to sq.


----------



## CocaCola15

Managed to get the EQ on the L3P just about perfect to my tastes. Beginning to see the light. Like what I hear now. Took some time, but so far worth it.


----------



## voicemaster

clerkpalmer said:


> Thanks for the impressions. I'm on the fence here. Seems like maybe they lack cohesion when it comes to sq.


The mid is a little bit thin is all I can complain. 


CocaCola15 said:


> Managed to get the EQ on the L3P just about perfect to my tastes. Beginning to see the light. Like what I hear now. Took some time, but so far worth it.


I actually tried the HearID just now and liking the sound, but yesterday when I use it, it was unbearable. The treble is so piercing, but now it is not. This is weird stuff. I was using my variation earlier too.


----------



## Tommy C

clerkpalmer said:


> Thanks for the impressions. I'm on the fence here. Seems like maybe they lack cohesion when it comes to sq.


I hope you will go for it as I’m on the fence as well lol. 
FWIW the L2P+ also sound terrible out of the box. HearID was way to bright but provided the base for tweaks. 
The mids were a bit dry so hoping all these were improved with the the newest version. You will have to put the time to customize the sound it was the same with me with the older version.


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## Ceeluh7 (Oct 16, 2021)

voicemaster said:


> How long have you had it? Did you use the ANC or off normally? Did you use the HearID thing or custom EQ?


So I've had anc both on and off. No I haven't tried the hear I'd on this set, I'm not holding my breath on these sounding any better. They don't sound bad, but, I would take the $40 Edifier Tws1 Pro over these in the SQ department. Everything else works great and they are stylish as hell. Look tough. Just thin... Mids both lower and upper... Thin. The highs are so splashy, tizzy, artificial sounding. Just like the L2P+... Just not a full and coherent implementation of a hybrid setup. I burned them in but only for about 4 hrs and to my ears nothing changed. Now, you can eq these to something approaching respectable but dude... I have many many sets of tws that imo blow these out of the water. Sucks. I purchased from Amazon so I have time to sit on these and hope by some miracle the sound changes. Maybe brain burn will kick in and I will report back that these sound amazing... Lol... This is all subjective though, but even saying that I don't know how many of you enjoy thin and tizzy. Crossing my fingers.... One other note, I will try hear id and maybe that will help out and I truly hope so however thin is something difficult to correct. I've done all my tricks, with tip changes, and manipulating the custom eq, trying the presets and I just feel like these are... At least for now... A step backwards for the tws world (strictly SQ speaking). I listen alot with my qudelix, or btr5, fiio dap, dongles and like you guys I want that wired full sound in a tws and I have been on a year long search in tws for that. The closest I have seen... IMO... Is the Lypertek Z7. For comparison sake... It's laughable to even compare LP3 to those as far as SQ goes. However every other feature, like the Sony Wf1000xm4 (returned) they have an awesome feature set which really makes it hard to put them back in the box and return them. Anyways sorry for writing a book.. Lol


----------



## webvan

Got the L3Ps yesterday and I didn't have very high hopes but I am quite impressed. I did the HearID test twice as I found my ears are a bit different especially in the very high frequencies...I was worried it was going to make them trebbly as reported here but it wasn't too bad and it got even better when you "mix" your HearID with the presets, not something that was available on the L2Ps. So now I have HearID+Soundcore Signature and the SQ is "thrilling" ! Wide, deep, detailed, what's not too like. The L2Ps sound "thin" in comparison, the Echodubs "narrow" and "dull".

The isolation is pretty good, the passive isolation is not as good as on the Echobuds, probably the best in class but the ANC is better so in the end it's close.

I had to go L and L on the tips/fins for the best seal/fit and I'll say that I'm not a big fan of the look as they stick out a lot. Like the L2Ps and the XM3s but unlike the XM3s they fall out as soon as I move my head (unless I stuffed them in deep with some foam tips). That both doesn't look great and it catches wind unlike earbuds that are flush with the ear (SiFi II, Echobuds, etc...). About wind noise, the "wind reduction" setting is absolutely useless as I found by sticking my head in the powerful fan I use for my home trainer. What are they thinking putting stuff that does not work at all ?!

Another fail is the "transparency" mode, it's really super "weak sauce" and I'm not comfortable having a conversation in that mode. Hopefully that can be fixed with a firmware upgrade.


----------



## CocaCola15

I somehow tweaked the treble and the irritating aspect seems to have gone away. I also have the Amazon return window, but going to give the L3Ps a chance to grow on me. It does make you wonder why the poor tuning OOB.


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## Ceeluh7 (Oct 16, 2021)

CocaCola15 said:


> I somehow tweaked the treble and the irritating aspect seems to have gone away. I also have the Amazon return window, but going to give the L3Ps a chance to grow on me. It does make you wonder why the poor tuning OOB.


I'm going to do the same... I'm going to keep tweaking... I really like the build quality, & the other features. I have tried and tried to add more depth to the sound though and I am not losing the thinness. I have corrected the treble by bringing down the highs drastically and adding dbs to the mids. Still there is almost a lack of driving power in note weight... It's odd. The bass is pretty good, on the tighter side and can give a good rumble, slightly rounded and weighty response... But man, I love my mids and the more I tweak them it seems to make it more artificial. I don't want to push anyone away from buying these and everyone is different but I honestly cannot understand the tuning here... They've been doing the tws thing as long as anyone and this.... This is what their flagship sounds like.... Wth. Apparently they needed more Grammy awrd winning producers... Lol. Let's put it this way... I listened to these and then I thought, OK I'll a/b these with say.... Soundpeats h1. So I listen to these and get to a point where they are good and then I go to the H1 and I'm like.... These don't hold a damn candle to H1... Both hybrid. I check the Camb MT's... Not even close. I a/b with the Camb 1+....dude cambridge wipes the floor with them... Which I should expect so that's not too crazy. But I also go as low as the Z3's and truly the Z3's at least at this point are just much better tuned and even more capable... I tried them against my galaxy pro plus and galaxy is just more mature throughout the spectrum. Anyways I'm sorry for harping on these because it may just be my preferences and I don't want to just crap on them when many of you may really enjoy them, I don't want to do that..I also should state that they don't sound bad... Not saying that... You can get these to respectable and even to a point where you can look past certain things with the feature set and all that comes with them, I'm almost there and hopefully with hear Id and maybe try a few more tips and some burn-in & brain burn these will shape up...  Just want a solution to a set I paid 160 bucks for and should exceed my expectations. Oh well... At least I bought them thru Amazon


----------



## jant71 (Oct 16, 2021)

clerkpalmer said:


> Thanks for the impressions. I'm on the fence here. Seems like maybe they lack cohesion when it comes to sq.


If you have had hybrids even in wired and that sort of thing is something you can hear and it bothers you I don't think they will be one where you can't tell the difference between the drivers. Don't even have to have them to tell you that. That would be some trick at that price. Trying to get more extension and the clarity and detail up higher with the armature but I doubt it will be up to real listening scrutiny on the cohesion. Rather most won't hear it being portable on the go sort of thing. Analyzing and quiet room comparing I'm sure the mids transition and some subtle differences in the note weight and definition will never let you forget they are a hybrid. A little TWS adjustment of expectations are probably in order since that is an issue in many $150 wired hybrids.


----------



## Ceeluh7

Okay... I am slightly retracting my last post about 15 min ago... I just put them in and tried hear id. I should have started with hear id. It actually did correct a few issues. I also let them burn in last night, it seemed to help alot. What a crazy turn around. The thin note weight is actually much better and clarity is better. I just received a lesson in patience and using the tech they give you... Lol. I went from returning them to 20 min later thinking... Heh these are sounding pretty good.


----------



## nijfi

Ceeluh7 said:


> Okay... I am slightly retracting my last post about 15 min ago... I just put them in and tried hear id. I should have started with hear id. It actually did correct a few issues. I also let them burn in last night, it seemed to help alot. What a crazy turn around. The thin note weight is actually much better and clarity is better. I just received a lesson in patience and using the tech they give you... Lol. I went from returning them to 20 min later thinking... Heh these are sounding pretty good.


Amazing! Good to hear. Much rather be reading reviews like yours than the endless YouTube hype videos or paid promotion reviews. Thanks for the feedback.

Mine are on their way. It's going to me my first experience of wireless listening, so I'm very curious about what I'm going to get.

I'm going to take the advice offered a bit further back in the thread, about using HearID and then giving that plenty of time to work first before wandering straight off into EQing. A good explanation there as to why the initial HearID sound might have most of us wincing at first at the harsh sounding trebles.


----------



## webvan

And like I wrote, HearID can be "mixed" with the presets, so it can be fine tuned easily. That was not available on the L2Ps.


----------



## Ceeluh7

webvan said:


> And like I wrote, HearID can be "mixed" with the presets, so it can be fine tuned easily. That was not available on the L2Ps.


Ya... I wish I would've done that first. It does help. I will still say that it at least to me is not exactly a SQ masterclass set... Kind of like youtube reviews have pushed it... (I hate hype videos)... It is still behind "for me" the MT, M1+, GBP, H1, Z7... But.... With all the features and pretty good sound it is very respectable, I completely changed my tune and thankfully it was after reading your post so I am grateful man. It still has slight coherence issues but I'm hoping those get corrected thru updates and some of the features aren't perfect but for the price it is very hard to beat.


----------



## Tommy C (Oct 16, 2021)

Reading here about the mids of the Liberty 3 Pro and I believe I saw somewhere where they said the balance armature is covering the mids and the highs and the dynamic driver covering the lows which I think is different than the hybrid IEMs that I have where the BA driver is covering mids and highs and the dynamic driver is responsible for the lows.
I might be completely wrong here but if that’s the case that explains the “thin” highs and “lack of weight” complaints.


----------



## Ceeluh7

Tommy C said:


> Reading here about the mids of the Liberty 3 Pro and I believe I saw somewhere where they said the balance armature is covering the mids and the highs and the dynamic driver covering the lows which I think is different than the hybrid IEMs that I have where the dynamic driver is covering mids and highs and the dynamic driver is responsible for the lows.
> I might be complexly wrong here but if that’s the case that explains the “thin” highs and “lack of weight” complaints.


You are exactly right. The Dynamic most of the time covers the lows and BA covers mids/highs. Many sets have been tuned in a way that they have very nice cohesion between them. If you listen to any chi-fi iems for instance you will notice sets that do it right and sets that are just throwing drivers in and putting them to market, aka... They sound like crap. But, then you look at a set like the H1 which implemented both drivers almost perfectly for a budget tws. I think my biggest let down with L3P was the fact that I just did not hear that upon first listen and maybe judged too quickly. Of course there still is a slight weakness to certain areas of the spectrum but it is Def not bad, esp after Hear- id and EQ -ing after.


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## dweaver (Oct 16, 2021)

Hearing all the angst about the L3P reminds me of my first big expensive buys. I bought the Sennheiser IE8 and they sounded like garbage OOB it took in excess of 100hrs of burn in before they opened up and sounded good.

I would only listen for a few minutes every day after playing music non stop for 24 hours. After 4 solid days of this crazy process and them sounding god awful each day I was ready to give the damn things away. The suddenly I put them on and played the exact same track and wham they sounded open and wonderful.

Being a typical headphone junky the siren call of something new eventually made me sell them and try something different but I never forgot that lesson on patience  .


----------



## Ceeluh7

dweaver said:


> Hearing all the angst about the L3P reminds me of my first big expensive buys. I bought the Sennheiser IE8 and they sounded like garbage OOB it took in excess of 100hrs of burn in before they opened up and sounded good.
> 
> I would only listen for a few minutes every day after playing music non stop for 24 hours. After 4 solid days of this crazy process and them sounding god awful each day I was ready to give the damn things away. The suddenly I put them on and played the exact same track and wham they sounded open and wonderful.
> 
> Being a typical headphone junky the siren call of something new eventually made me sell them and try something different but I never forgot that lesson on patience  .


Ya know.... With iems I burn in... No matter what... At least 100 hrs... So why (to me) is it any different with tws? You are absolutely right.


----------



## xSDMx

Ceeluh7 said:


> You are exactly right. The Dynamic most of the time covers the lows and BA covers mids/highs. Many sets have been tuned in a way that they have very nice cohesion between them. If you listen to any chi-fi iems for instance you will notice sets that do it right and sets that are just throwing drivers in and putting them to market, aka... They sound like crap. But, then you look at a set like the H1 which implemented both drivers almost perfectly for a budget tws. I think my biggest let down with L3P was the fact that I just did not hear that upon first listen and maybe judged too quickly. Of course there still is a slight weakness to certain areas of the spectrum but it is Def not bad, esp after Hear- id and EQ -ing after.



Totally agree w.r.t. implementation on the Soundpeats H1. I am continually impressed with how great they sound esp. given the price. I just wish the QC was a little better and I wish they had an ambient mode instead of the low latency/gaming mode.


----------



## Ceeluh7

xSDMx said:


> Totally agree w.r.t. implementation on the Soundpeats H1. I am continually impressed with how great they sound esp. given the price. I just wish the QC was a little better and I wish they had an ambient mode instead of the low latency/gaming mode.


Exactly. The H1 are very well tuned and imo stack up sonically against most of the big boys and in some cases exceeds them. They have no bells and whistles... At all. Other than wireless charging and touch controls but what they lack in features they make up for in audio quality and for 75 bucks that's saying alot in this hobby. They look great, good passive noise isolation, and good audio throughout the entire spectrum. Of course I can find faults with anything sonically and the H1 have slight issues but... I love music and those things can play music really well


----------



## webvan

Went out for a run with the L3Ps and for the first time I wasn't too annoyed by the inevitable "thump" that comes with "IEMs"...but that requires the ANC to be on for some reason, without the thump is unbearable as usual. I also found that unlike with my fan test the "wind reduction" setting actually works when running. That's an unexpected bonus. The downside is that you can't hear your environment as you can with the X12s so it has to be in a non-dangerous area !

Has anyone had luck using multipoint with a Win10 computer ? I've found that when the W10 computer is connected the Android is not able to "reclaim" the connection even if the audio has been paused on the W10 device. Switching audio outputs, to say the speakers, will free the connection. Still it's rather inconvenient. That's a limitation of multipoint implementation by Soundcore as the Q30s have the same problem, unlike the Aftershockz or Jabra devices. Or am I missing something ?


----------



## dweaver

OK I must be bored today. I looked down and realized I have 6 models of TWS sitting here. So took each headphone and set the volume to exact same spot on my phone (50%) and then played the exact same song Hans Zimmer Inception - We Built Our Own World. So lets see how they did. Starting with best to worst...

Before I get started on the ranking let me explain this song a bit. It starts with a sub-bassy heart beat and then has the orchestra play slowly come into play with an immersive encompassing sound they adds layers of complexity and intensity. When done right you get pulled into a 3D field of sound that is detailed and intense building to a crescendo over the minute fifty six seconds of the track.

Galaxy Buds Pro - the heartbeat has excellent feel and intensity, there is a wispy spacy back ground noise that is clear and easy with excellent presence. A guitar plucks a few lonely notes and then orchestra starts enveloping me in the music. Near the end of the track the main orchestra gives way to a strings section that slowly winds down the song with eery sounds appearing until the song ends. The bass never over whelms the song and the sense of immersion is complete from beginning to end with immense amounts of detail throughout the song.

Technics AZ70 - Sub-bass slightly less intense, spacy sounds are slightly less present but clear. Guitars is clear and articulate, orchestra comes in clearly with a bit wider feel. Strings at the end are slightly less intensity loading some of the eery feel.

Audiofly AFT2 - Heartbeat is slightly more nuanced and intense than even the GBuds Pro, spacy sounds are slightly warmer sounding, guitar kicks in with a warmer note that borders on being to rich. The orchestra kicks in and is also richer in tone. The strings similarly have a richer tone. The over experience is a bit to relaxed. For the song but very pleasant.

Status Between Pro - the heart beat is a bit to intense and not quite as nuanced as the first 3 buds. Spacy sounds are present but a lot further back due to the bass presence. The guitar has a nice tonality to it. When the orchestra kicks in it has almost a shouty edge to it. The strings sound right tonally but have a bit to much intensity. The overall sense throughout the whole song is that it's to in my face and intense.

Sony WF-1000XM3 - the heartbeat is a bit heavy and lack the detail of the other TWS above, spacy sounds are present but subdued and further back and lack detail. The guitar sounds nice in the mix and tonally correct. The orchestra is slightly to intense at moments and lacks a bit of detail. The strings at the end have good intesity. The over effect is decent but over whelming at points while simultaneously lacking detail and immersion.

Sennheiser CX400BT - Heartbeat lacks sub-bass intesity, spacy sounds are very distant and lack clarity and detail, guitar is present and tonally correct but slightly subdued. Orchestra lacks intensity and detail. The strings section at the end lacks vitality. The over all effect is one of listening almost from another room, losing the sense of immersion required for the song.


----------



## voicemaster

Ceeluh7 said:


> So I've had anc both on and off. No I haven't tried the hear I'd on this set, I'm not holding my breath on these sounding any better. They don't sound bad, but, I would take the $40 Edifier Tws1 Pro over these in the SQ department. Everything else works great and they are stylish as hell. Look tough. Just thin... Mids both lower and upper... Thin. The highs are so splashy, tizzy, artificial sounding. Just like the L2P+... Just not a full and coherent implementation of a hybrid setup. I burned them in but only for about 4 hrs and to my ears nothing changed. Now, you can eq these to something approaching respectable but dude... I have many many sets of tws that imo blow these out of the water. Sucks. I purchased from Amazon so I have time to sit on these and hope by some miracle the sound changes. Maybe brain burn will kick in and I will report back that these sound amazing... Lol... This is all subjective though, but even saying that I don't know how many of you enjoy thin and tizzy. Crossing my fingers.... One other note, I will try hear id and maybe that will help out and I truly hope so however thin is something difficult to correct. I've done all my tricks, with tip changes, and manipulating the custom eq, trying the presets and I just feel like these are... At least for now... A step backwards for the tws world (strictly SQ speaking). I listen alot with my qudelix, or btr5, fiio dap, dongles and like you guys I want that wired full sound in a tws and I have been on a year long search in tws for that. The closest I have seen... IMO... Is the Lypertek Z7. For comparison sake... It's laughable to even compare LP3 to those as far as SQ goes. However every other feature, like the Sony Wf1000xm4 (returned) they have an awesome feature set which really makes it hard to put them back in the box and return them. Anyways sorry for writing a book.. Lol


Actually funny thing happened to me. I did the HearID thing and it make the sound super bright like piercing and tizzy treble. I even made fun of it here on my earlier post. Then someone mentioned here to try to listen using the HearID for several hours. I did that last night and funny thing was the piercing treble like 90% gone. I listen to it for 2-3 hours last night, trying several different songs that are prone to sibilance, but I couldn't hear any sibilance. 
I could eliminate the piercing treble using the custom EQ, but I couldn't fattened up the mid using the EQ. If they have 32 bands EQ, it is possible to fine tuned it, but I haven't seen any 32 bands EQ on a smartphone ever. 
With the HearID setting, the mid is fuller, treble is airy and not piercing than my custom EQ.


----------



## voicemaster

Ceeluh7 said:


> Okay... I am slightly retracting my last post about 15 min ago... I just put them in and tried hear id. I should have started with hear id. It actually did correct a few issues. I also let them burn in last night, it seemed to help alot. What a crazy turn around. The thin note weight is actually much better and clarity is better. I just received a lesson in patience and using the tech they give you... Lol. I went from returning them to 20 min later thinking... Heh these are sounding pretty good.


That what happened to me too. This L3P change it sounds pretty drastically with burn in. From my experience, the bass tightened up pretty fast like 2-3 hours after first listening. The tizzy and piercing treble took around 20 hours to smoothened out. The mid is better using the HearID for me.


----------



## jant71 (Oct 16, 2021)

dweaver said:


> OK I must be bored today. I looked down and realized I have 6 models of TWS sitting here. So took each headphone and set the volume to exact same spot on my phone (50%) and then played the exact same song Hans Zimmer Inception - We Built Our Own World. So lets see how they did. Starting with best to worst...
> 
> Before I get started on the ranking let me explain this song a bit. It starts with a sub-bassy heart beat and then has the orchestra play slowly come into play with an immersive encompassing sound they adds layers of complexity and intensity. When done right you get pulled into a 3D field of sound that is detailed and intense building to a crescendo over the minute fifty six seconds of the track.
> 
> ...


N6 Pro 2 has one of the best tunings and everything sounds quite right and natural. Maybe with the wrong tips it is a little warmer and smooth than perfect but not the Senn and Sony and even JVC/Victor and AT route of smoothed over too much. I and other agree it is their best SQ yet like they touted. It just isn't the biggest stage they have gotten but still big but the Overall tuning and extension and detail and timbre is the best. They are not getting the fanfare they should though they get all good reviews(outside of one current one on Amazon but they clearly got a lemon). So many has tuning misfires  in one area or another or just don't have the resolution.


----------



## Tommy C

dweaver said:


> OK I must be bored today. I looked down and realized I have 6 models of TWS sitting here. So took each headphone and set the volume to exact same spot on my phone (50%) and then played the exact same song Hans Zimmer Inception - We Built Our Own World. So lets see how they did. Starting with best to worst...
> 
> Before I get started on the ranking let me explain this song a bit. It starts with a sub-bassy heart beat and then has the orchestra play slowly come into play with an immersive encompassing sound they adds layers of complexity and intensity. When done right you get pulled into a 3D field of sound that is detailed and intense building to a crescendo over the minute fifty six seconds of the track.
> 
> ...



What you are describing re the CX 400BT is exactly how I felt for the first two days of listening here and there.  I later found out the stock tips didn’t work for me despite getting a proper seal, or so I thought. 
Try some tip rolling. I believe you’re not getting a proper seal with them yet.


----------



## Ceeluh7

voicemaster said:


> Actually funny thing happened to me. I did the HearID thing and it make the sound super bright like piercing and tizzy treble. I even made fun of it here on my earlier post. Then someone mentioned here to try to listen using the HearID for several hours. I did that last night and funny thing was the piercing treble like 90% gone. I listen to it for 2-3 hours last night, trying several different songs that are prone to sibilance, but I couldn't hear any sibilance.
> I could eliminate the piercing treble using the custom EQ, but I couldn't fattened up the mid using the EQ. If they have 32 bands EQ, it is possible to fine tuned it, but I haven't seen any 32 bands EQ on a smartphone ever.
> With the HearID setting, the mid is fuller, treble is airy and not piercing than my custom EQ.


So one thing that helped me to fine tune it... I obviously did everything within the Soundcore  app itself to get the sound as close as possible to where it sounds good to me and then.. Since I use poweramp and can set Induvidual eq settings for any set, and you can set the amount of bands up to 32 I think... Pretty sure that's what I go with, can't remember but it's alot, anyways I fine tune it there and I found that the LP3 responds pretty well to eq. I have gotten something I hated in the morning to sounding pretty damn good. I do believe prolonged use will help the very subtle tizziness that still exists. Problem for me though is I also just got (today) the Grado Gt220....umm... Ya they are substantially better in almost every regard sound wise. Back to the Soundcore... I hope they update these considering their sound in the future


----------



## dj24

Trying to switch things up from the LP3 Pro's, I recently ventured to Bart's site to checkout some of his latest reviews and saw these.  As someone who spends 9+ hours on Cisco Jabber work calls every day- I'm very intrigued by them.  Additional online and youtube reviews I checked out concur with Bart that these have the best noise cancellation for calls and now have the best call quality of any TWS sets out there.

The caveat is that they are currently only on Indiegogo and I remember people here mentioning that they've been burned ordering new products on that platform before.  I've decided to take one for the team and just placed an order so I'll let you all know once I get them.


----------



## Caipirina

webvan said:


> Went out for a run with the L3Ps and for the first time I wasn't too annoyed by the inevitable "thump" that comes with "IEMs"...but that requires the ANC to be on for some reason, without the thump is unbearable as usual. I also found that unlike with my fan test the "wind reduction" setting actually works when running. That's an unexpected bonus. The downside is that you can't hear your environment as you can with the X12s so it has to be in a non-dangerous area !
> 
> Has anyone had luck using multipoint with a Win10 computer ? I've found that when the W10 computer is connected the Android is not able to "reclaim" the connection even if the audio has been paused on the W10 device. Switching audio outputs, to say the speakers, will free the connection. Still it's rather inconvenient. That's a limitation of multipoint implementation by Soundcore as the Q30s have the same problem, unlike the Aftershockz or Jabra devices. Or am I missing something ?


Now, that suddenly makes them interesting for me. But then again. I really don’t need another pair. Perfectly happy alternating x12 / Bose QC and those cheapo Baseus W11 when it’s raining


----------



## xSDMx

Ceeluh7 said:


> Exactly. The H1 are very well tuned and imo stack up sonically against most of the big boys and in some cases exceeds them. They have no bells and whistles... At all. Other than wireless charging and touch controls but what they lack in features they make up for in audio quality and for 75 bucks that's saying alot in this hobby. They look great, good passive noise isolation, and good audio throughout the entire spectrum. Of course I can find faults with anything sonically and the H1 have slight issues but... I love music and those things can play music really well



Out of curiosity, what tips are you rolling on your Soundpeats H1s?

The comply foam tips are too isolating for me (almost like active ANC!) And the stock silicone tips don't stay in and particularly well when active. 

I've been using Spinfit CP360s which strike a good balance between isolation and fit. That said, they seem to notch the treble down slightly and boost the already booming bass. I suspect this is due to the bore size on the CP360 being slightly more narrow than the stock tips, so I'm looking for alternatives to try.


----------



## CocaCola15 (Oct 16, 2021)

Ceeluh7 said:


> I'm going to do the same... I'm going to keep tweaking... I really like the build quality, & the other features. I have tried and tried to add more depth to the sound though and I am not losing the thinness. I have corrected the treble by bringing down the highs drastically and adding dbs to the mids. Still there is almost a lack of driving power in note weight... It's odd. The bass is pretty good, on the tighter side and can give a good rumble, slightly rounded and weighty response... But man, I love my mids and the more I tweak them it seems to make it more artificial. I don't want to push anyone away from buying these and everyone is different but I honestly cannot understand the tuning here... They've been doing the tws thing as long as anyone and this.... This is what their flagship sounds like.... Wth. Apparently they needed more Grammy awrd winning producers... Lol. Let's put it this way... I listened to these and then I thought, OK I'll a/b these with say.... Soundpeats h1. So I listen to these and get to a point where they are good and then I go to the H1 and I'm like.... These don't hold a damn candle to H1... Both hybrid. I check the Camb MT's... Not even close. I a/b with the Camb 1+....dude cambridge wipes the floor with them... Which I should expect so that's not too crazy. But I also go as low as the Z3's and truly the Z3's at least at this point are just much better tuned and even more capable... I tried them against my galaxy pro plus and galaxy is just more mature throughout the spectrum. Anyways I'm sorry for harping on these because it may just be my preferences and I don't want to just crap on them when many of you may really enjoy them, I don't want to do that..I also should state that they don't sound bad... Not saying that... You can get these to respectable and even to a point where you can look past certain things with the feature set and all that comes with them, I'm almost there and hopefully with hear Id and maybe try a few more tips and some burn-in & brain burn these will shape up...  Just want a solution to a set I paid 160 bucks for and should exceed my expectations. Oh well... At least I bought them thru Amazon


I hear you! I am a major CA M1+ fanboy, sold my MTs. Also like my “cheap” Between Pros ($75 on Indiegogo) very much. But as much as I have managed to tame the fizzy highs, the L3P is not a better listen than either of those TW phones.  I will give it a fair shake, but we’ll see. I like the idea that the M1+ is just great OOB, no futzing with ComplexEQ etc.


----------



## Ceeluh7

xSDMx said:


> Out of curiosity, what tips are you rolling on your Soundpeats H1s?
> 
> The comply foam tips are too isolating for me (almost like active ANC!) And the stock silicone tips don't stay in and particularly well when active.
> 
> I've been using Spinfit CP360s which strike a good balance between isolation and fit. That said, they seem to notch the treble down slightly and boost the already booming bass. I suspect this is due to the bore size on the CP360 being slightly more narrow than the stock tips, so I'm looking for alternatives to try.


I've been using some tips from a pair of Fiio iems. I think the Fiio Fd3. I went thru many tips trying to find a pair that sealed really well in my ears and they helped alot with overall clarity as the stem inside is very firm and the bore is slightly wider, the bass tightened up as well.


----------



## CocaCola15

Actually funny thing happened to me. I did the HearID thing and it make the sound super bright like piercing and tizzy treble. I even made fun of it here on my earlier post. Then someone mentioned here to try to listen using the HearID for several hours. I did that last night and funny thing was the piercing treble like 90% gone. I listen to it for 2-3 hours last night, trying several different songs that are prone to sibilance, but I couldn't hear any sibilance.


voicemaster said:


> I could eliminate the piercing treble using the custom EQ, but I couldn't fattened up the mid using the EQ. If they have 32 bands EQ, it is possible to fine tuned it, but I haven't seen any 32 bands EQ on a smartphone ever.
> With the HearID setting, the mid is fuller, treble is airy and not piercing than my custom EQ.


Kaiser Audio app has 30-band EQ option.


----------



## Ceeluh7

CocaCola15 said:


> I hear you! I am a major CA M1+ fanboy, sold my MTs. Also like my “cheap” Between Pros ($75 on Indiegogo) very much. But as much as I have managed to tame the fizzy highs, the L3P is not a better listen than either of those TW phones.  I will give it a fair shake, but we’ll see. I like the idea that the M1+ is just great OOB, no futzing with Comlex EQ etc.


Totally man....you know what I'm talking about. Cambridge did an awesome job with their tuning and tonality. The M1+ should get way more praise. I recently changed up the tips on my 1+ (which is the hardest tips to roll because of the crazy wide tip), I used a slightly wider bore tip on these... I believe the 1more Quad driver tips, mediums so that they still fit in the case, anyways the seal was much better and just do a great job of opening these up. I now believe the 1+ is actually better than the Touch. I just can't part with these yet, you made a good choice


----------



## Darkestred

CocaCola15 said:


> I hear you! I am a major CA M1+ fanboy, sold my MTs. Also like my “cheap” Between Pros ($75 on Indiegogo) very much. But as much as I have managed to tame the fizzy highs, the L3P is not a better listen than either of those TW phones.  I will give it a fair shake, but we’ll see. I like the idea that the M1+ is just great OOB, no futzing with Comlex EQ etc.


What makes the 1+ better than the MT in your opinion?  I liked the MTs a lot but their connectivity issues for me makes them bunk. Great before any firmware.


----------



## voicemaster

CocaCola15 said:


> Actually funny thing happened to me. I did the HearID thing and it make the sound super bright like piercing and tizzy treble. I even made fun of it here on my earlier post. Then someone mentioned here to try to listen using the HearID for several hours. I did that last night and funny thing was the piercing treble like 90% gone. I listen to it for 2-3 hours last night, trying several different songs that are prone to sibilance, but I couldn't hear any sibilance.
> 
> Kaiser Audio app has 30-band EQ option.


Does the EQ setting works for other apps like wavelet?


----------



## CocaCola15

Actually funny thing happened to me. I did the HearID thing and it make the sound super bright like piercing and tizzy treble. I even made fun of it here on my earlier post. Then someone mentioned here to try to listen using the HearID for several hours. I did that last night and funny thing was the piercing treble like 90% gone. I listen to it for 2-3 hours last night, trying several different songs that are prone to sibilance, but I couldn't hear any sibilance.


voicemaster said:


> I could eliminate the piercing treble using the custom EQ, but I couldn't fattened up the mid using the EQ. If they have 32 bands EQ, it is possible to fine tuned it, but I haven't seen any 32 bands EQ on a smartphone ever.
> With the HearID setting, the mid is fuller, treble is airy and not piercing than my custom EQ.


Kaiser Audio app has 30-band EQ option


Ceeluh7 said:


> Totally man....you know what I'm talking about. Cambridge did an awesome job with their tuning and tonality. The M1+ should get way more praise. I recently changed up the tips on my 1+ (which is the hardest tips to roll because of the crazy wide tip), I used a slightly wider bore tip on these... I believe the 1more Quad driver tips, mediums so that they still fit in the case, anyways the seal was much better and just do a great job of opening these up. I now believe the 1+ is actually better than the Touch. I just can't part with these yet, you made a good choice


No doubt that the M1+ does not get enough props. I found the OEM foam tips work fir me. @$99 on Amazon a serious ROI!


----------



## dweaver

Tommy C said:


> What you are describing re the CX 400BT is exactly how I felt for the first two days of listening here and there.  I later found out the stock tips didn’t work for me despite getting a proper seal, or so I thought.
> Try some tip rolling. I believe you’re not getting a proper seal with them yet.


I am using the stock tips, large, will swap around with my big bag of tips and see what happens. Maybe start with the Sony Hybrid tips and go from there .


----------



## dweaver

Ok put on the Sony tips and it helped the bass a bit but still not to the same level as the other TWS tested. But it did help make them sound more immersive.

But this is just one genre of music and one that relies on sub-bass so not sure I would put to much stock into this one comparison. I will do some more with other songs in other genres as time permits. I am sure the 400BT will fair better with genres like Jazz and older rock music.

But for those who listen to a lot of intense sound tracks from composers like Hans Zimmer, the 400BT might not be a good fit. But the new CX line with bigger bass might be just about perfect...


----------



## Ceeluh7

jant71 said:


> N6 Pro 2 has one of the best tunings and everything sounds quite right and natural. Maybe with the wrong tips it is a little warmer and smooth than perfect but not the Senn and Sony and even JVC/Victor and AT route of smoothed over too much. I and other agree it is their best SQ yet like they touted. It just isn't the biggest stage they have gotten but still big but the Overall tuning and extension and detail and timbre is the best. They are not getting the fanfare they should though they get all good reviews(outside of one current one on Amazon but they clearly got a lemon). So many has tuning misfires  in one area or another or just don't have the resolution.


I was looking at these. I did see good reviews... Scarbir had a good review on them. Nuarl tunes their sets really well. The updated driver has to be good. I will pick up these soon I hope. Glad you like em man


----------



## dweaver

Lol decided to take the Sony tips off the GBuds Pro and see if the Senn tips would fit as they both seemed to use a short lip to hold the tip. Took some work but the Senn fit and seem to be less likely to come off. They sound pretty good to. Will test them tomorrow.


----------



## CocaCola15 (Oct 16, 2021)

voicemaster said:


> Does the EQ setting works for other apps like wavelet?


Not sure. Kaiser Audio is a player with a built-in EQ. I use it for onboard tracks, not usable with streaming services. Not cheap, like $9 in the app store. But I like it.


----------



## CocaCola15 (Oct 16, 2021)

So I connected the L3Ps to my LG V30, which I use as a DAP. Sounds excellent but the Soundcore app, which is installed for the Q30 I own, does not offer the L3P as an option. Only L2P+ an lower models. Am I doing something wrong? But straight up, no EQ using Amazon Music HD. Maybe I need to update the soundcore app. I’l give it a shot.

Update: That worked. Listening via LDAC, to the new Let It Be remix. Sweet.


----------



## voicemaster

CocaCola15 said:


> So I connected the L3Ps to my LG V30, which I use as a DAP. Sounds excellent but the Soundcore app, which is installed for the Q30 I own, does not offer the L3P as an option. Only L2P+ an lower models. Am I doing something wrong? But straight up, no EQ using Amazon Music HD. Maybe I need to update the soundcore app. I’l give it a shot.


Update it?


----------



## Tommy C

dweaver said:


> I am using the stock tips, large, will swap around with my big bag of tips and see what happens. Maybe start with the Sony Hybrid tips and go from there .


What puzzles me about the stock tips is that I’m normally size M but the stock L tips fit me easily and compared to other L tips that I have handy they are smaller. 

I don’t have any of the other TWS that you currently have to compare but to me the bass is plenty and doesn’t bleed to the mids and stays in place. Highs are OK and pretty smooth but still come with some sparkle and the overall imagining is very well done creating nice sound stage. 

When using the stock tips the bass is good but the whole presentation is like you’re in a concert and sitting too far from the stage and while it feels wide it doesn’t feel right or enjoyable. 
With the Fiil tips I feel like I’m right in front of the stage. The sound isn’t in your face but very close to stage like 1st row or so. 
I hope it makes sense.


----------



## CocaCola15 (Oct 16, 2021)

This is for Darkestred a page back; hit the wrong button.

I was an M1 owner and tried the MTs but just preferred the form factor of the M1. When the M1+ released, bought them. I admittedly EQ them on the treble side, but they just meet my sound preference. Plus, I love their foam tips and bought 10 pair via Amazon. Can clean and reuse. Unlike Comply. Plus they fit the case. I like click over touch, and at $99 they are a steal. I am messing with the L3P EQ settings abd they are starting to come around. I tried a few higher priced TW phones and for my uses not willing to to past $150. At home, don’t really use in-ears much. If I do, it’s the Ety ER4XR with the ES100 dac. Mainly full sized phones. So that’s my story.


----------



## CocaCola15

voicemaster said:


> Update it?


Done.


----------



## bladefd

dweaver said:


> Ok put on the Sony tips and it helped the bass a bit but still not to the same level as the other TWS tested. But it did help make them sound more immersive.
> 
> But this is just one genre of music and one that relies on sub-bass so not sure I would put to much stock into this one comparison. I will do some more with other songs in other genres as time permits. I am sure the 400BT will fair better with genres like Jazz and older rock music.
> 
> But for those who listen to a lot of intense sound tracks from composers like Hans Zimmer, the 400BT might not be a good fit. But the new CX line with bigger bass might be just about perfect...


Bass was very good on 400BT for older rock like Beatles, Pink floyd, simon&garfunkel, queen, bon jovi, etc. Didn't try jazz though.


----------



## Tommy C

bladefd said:


> Bass was very good on 400BT for older rock like Beatles, Pink floyd, simon&garfunkel, queen, bon jovi, etc. Didn't try jazz though.


Agreed. The bass is very nice. Not overwhelming which I like but with nice punch. Not the most precise or textured but very pleasing.
I somehow find most TWS to have excessive bass so I’m pretty happy with the CX 400BT.


----------



## dweaver

bladefd said:


> Bass was very good on 400BT for older rock like Beatles, Pink floyd, simon&garfunkel, queen, bon jovi, etc. Didn't try jazz though.


I listen to a lot of that type of rock and yes the 400BT sounds good . So far the Jazz I have tried also sound good. I will see if I have time to pick a single Jazz tune and do another comparison round tomorrow.


----------



## Tommy C

dweaver said:


> I listen to a lot of that type of rock and yes the 400BT sounds good . So far the Jazz I have tried also sound good. I will see if I have time to pick a single Jazz tune and do another comparison round tomorrow.



Could it be also that the CX 400BT need some time burn it and settle in? Not sure but I believe my Fiil T1XS needed it and in the Fiil+ app there are cycles of pink noise and tracks vary in length to achieve required time. I’m just not sure if it’s a thing with these TWS.


----------



## bladefd

I would have kept the 400bt if the fitting didn't give me so much grief. It was hard to keep in my ear without getting  uncomfortable in the ear canal, and it wasn't good for side-sleeping. I should have bought custom eartips back then, but it wouldn't have solved the size issue regardless. It's too bad.


----------



## nijfi (Oct 17, 2021)

bladefd said:


> I would have kept the 400bt if the fitting didn't give me so much grief. It was hard to keep in my ear without getting  uncomfortable in the ear canal, and it wasn't good for side-sleeping. I should have bought custom eartips back then, but it wouldn't have solved the size issue regardless. It's too bad.


Regarding custom eartips.

What's the general consensus on here for customs?

I see Zenplugs do them here in the UK for a very good price.

I've also heard of Snugs.

I've not looked into it too much really, but it's been something I keep meaning to do.


----------



## highlightshadow

voicemaster said:


> That what happened to me too. This L3P change it sounds pretty drastically with burn in. From my experience, the bass tightened up pretty fast like 2-3 hours after first listening. The tizzy and piercing treble took around 20 hours to smoothened out. The mid is better using the HearID for me.


I guess i must not be hearing the piecing trebel ... i know when i do both the HearID on Soundcore's app and the Adapt Sound feature on Samsung i miss the highest frequency on both ... Guess it's mostly down to people's hearing / fit

So for me the hearid isn't bright at all -- must have lost that portion of my hearing range to a degree


----------



## Toom

dweaver said:


> Hearing all the angst about the L3P reminds me of my first big expensive buys. I bought the Sennheiser IE8 and they sounded like garbage OOB it took in excess of 100hrs of burn in before they opened up and sounded good.
> 
> I would only listen for a few minutes every day after playing music non stop for 24 hours. After 4 solid days of this crazy process and them sounding god awful each day I was ready to give the damn things away. The suddenly I put them on and played the exact same track and wham they sounded open and wonderful.
> 
> Being a typical headphone junky the siren call of something new eventually made me sell them and try something different but I never forgot that lesson on patience  .


What had changed in you on that 4th day?


----------



## bladefd

nijfi said:


> Regarding custom eartips.
> 
> What's the general consensus on here for customs?
> 
> ...


I use ePro TW00, which several folks here use. I think there is the Azla Crystal for tws too (there is non-tws edition and tws edition). Final type e for tws are also decent but I had trouble finding them.


----------



## nijfi

bladefd said:


> I use ePro TW00, which several folks here use. I think there is the Azla Crystal for tws too (there is non-tws edition and tws edition). Final type e for tws are also decent but I had trouble finding them.


Sorry. I meant custom as in moulded to your own ear.

I've never really got on with silicone tips. Although I've only tried stock ones from an old pair of Klipsch and my current NFAudio NA2's.

I tried Comply memory foam and got on pretty well with them so stuck with them. When they all wore out I replaced with cheaper OEM memory foam tips and they perform exactly the same as the ones from Comply.

I've always got a good seal and comfort on my left ear, but never quite nailed it on the other ear, despite trying a size up or size down there.

I was wondering if there's any big benefits on trying custom moulded. I think my only brief exploration of this area showed prices in excess of the iems I use, which all seemed a bit like putting the cart before the horse. Just wondered if there was any cheaper options?

Apologies if this is too much of a tangent for the thread. Just chucked it in there as others were talking about tip rolling and someone mentioned custom.


----------



## rhsauer (Oct 17, 2021)

nijfi said:


> Sorry. I meant custom as in moulded to your own ear.
> 
> I've never really got on with silicone tips. Although I've only tried stock ones from an old pair of Klipsch and my current NFAudio NA2's.
> 
> ...


I don’t think custom tips work very easily for TWS.  Among other issues, they’re unlikely to fit in the case. I have some customs for my Shure 846s that I _could_ use with the TW2 adapter, but even that’s a bit cumbersome.  By the way, I also always get a good fit in my left ear and a much less good fit in my right ear. It’s always great to find the rare set of earphones that fits both ears well.


----------



## voicemaster

highlightshadow said:


> I guess i must not be hearing the piecing trebel ... i know when i do both the HearID on Soundcore's app and the Adapt Sound feature on Samsung i miss the highest frequency on both ... Guess it's mostly down to people's hearing / fit
> 
> So for me the hearid isn't bright at all -- must have lost that portion of my hearing range to a degree


I couldn't hear pass 16khz since 10 years or so ago.


----------



## dweaver

Toom said:


> What had changed in you on that 4th day?


The bass settled down south being less bloated, The midrange became less muddy and the treble started to sparkle. That and the over sound stage improved.

Can't any more specific as we are talking over 10 years ago .


----------



## dweaver

Have to say Thank you to Tommy C, he mentioned tip rolling with the CX400BTwhich lead me to put the Sennheiser tips on the Galaxy Bud Pro and that tip does wonders for the IEM. Way better isolation! Will keep rolling tips on the 400BT and hope I find something I like because I want to keep these tips on the GBuds Pro.


----------



## Ceeluh7

dweaver said:


> Have to say Thank you to Tommy C, he mentioned tip rolling with the CX400BTwhich lead me to put the Sennheiser tips on the Galaxy Bud Pro and that tip does wonders for the IEM. Way better isolation! Will keep rolling tips on the 400BT and hope I find something I like because I want to keep these tips on the GBuds Pro.


These... For me... Absolutely opened up the galaxy buds pro for me. Everyone is different but man... More airy, tighter more well defined bass. I think these tips came from a set of Dunu iems... Can't remember. Anyways they have a wider bore and much more firm stem and are just more firm in general but the biggest plus is they actually go into my freaking ear hole and seal properly,... Oh and they fit perfectly in he case... Which surprised me. Glad the Senny tips helped. Don't know why I shared this but I was pretty jacked about it. For anyone wondering these tips come with alot of chi-fi iems and actually are more shallow so they can fit properly in the case. Thanks for posting that, I'll try the Senny tips and compare... I love the GBP, they are in my top 5 tws for sure with everything considered.


----------



## clerkpalmer

Interesting about Android versus Apple particularly on the noise floor. 

https://www.soundguys.com/dont-use-airpods-android-20767/amp/


----------



## dj24

Bart has his review up for the LP3 pros..


----------



## dweaver

Will have to wait until I see how the Galaxy Buds Pro sound on the train tomorrow but if they remove as much noise on the train as they are walking around right now I may have found the closest thing to my end game TWS to date. The difference in isolation is remarkable and was really the only thing holding me back from using these all the time. They are not always the top TWS for each genre I listen to but they are for several genres and are never in the bottom for any genre.


----------



## Ceeluh7

dweaver said:


> Will have to wait until I see how the Galaxy Buds Pro sound on the train tomorrow but if they remove as much noise on the train as they are walking around right now I may have found the closest thing to my end game TWS to date. The difference in isolation is remarkable and was really the only thing holding me back from using these all the time. They are not always the top TWS for each genre I listen to but they are for several genres and are never in the bottom for any genre.


I agree... GBP have been my everyday pair... Perfect size case too for the small pocket... Great Audio, very good ANC, a ton of features... Can't go wrong, Samsung outdid themselves


----------



## darveniza

Any recommendations for other ear tip that can be usedwith Klipsch ANC T5 ii

I dislike the stock type, cannot get the right seal or fit


----------



## clerkpalmer

darveniza said:


> Any recommendations for other ear tip that can be usedwith Klipsch ANC T5 ii
> 
> I dislike the stock type, cannot get the right seal or fit


Pretty sure they are proprietary.


----------



## cresny

clerkpalmer said:


> Interesting about Android versus Apple particularly on the noise floor.
> 
> https://www.soundguys.com/dont-use-airpods-android-20767/amp/


So am I, but I'm also confused. I would not be  surprised if Apple had superior circuitry, filters, whatever it is that makes for a clean noise floor, but hey isn't that an analog thing on the phone itself? If so how would that affect the digital BT transmission?


----------



## clerkpalmer

cresny said:


> So am I, but I'm also confused. I would not be  surprised if Apple had superior circuitry, filters, whatever it is that makes for a clean noise floor, but hey isn't that an analog thing on the phone itself? If so how would that affect the digital BT transmission?


Hmm. Good point. It may be a reference to the noise floor on the air pods themselves perhaps being different between the two devices based on better hardware? It's interesting that they are bashing Android for not prioritizing BT when Android offers high end codecs.


----------



## Darkestred

Caipirina said:


> Now, that suddenly makes them interesting for me. But then again. I really don’t need another pair. Perfectly happy alternating x12 / Bose QC and those cheapo Baseus W11 when it’s raining


Tried this myself.  First time it did not work.  What has so far worked for me is disconnect and reconnect on your android device.  Now i am able to seamlessly switch between the two devices.  I have not tried to just play another file on the other device.  Pause first.


----------



## Bhelpoori

clerkpalmer said:


> Hmm. Good point. It may be a reference to the noise floor on the air pods themselves perhaps being different between the two devices based on better hardware? It's interesting that they are bashing Android for not prioritizing BT when Android offers high end codecs.


Even if this "noise floor" was a result of the encoder, which it isn't, all encoders would be affected by the Android scheduler so why bash AAC when it isn't significantly different from say LDAC in encoding CPU cycles. It also isn't "Android" doing this but the manufacturer of the phone so it varies by chipset, software version and driver versions. 

Let's also be clear that the AAC encoder built into Android is just as good as the one on iOS but that doesn't mean the driver will use it or that the license fee for using more modern AAC is paid for by the manufacturer.


----------



## voicemaster

I was listening to my N6P again after quite abandoning it for other TWS and man the sound is just awesome. No EQ or adjustment required and the sound is just great.


----------



## VICosPhi (Oct 19, 2021)

Got the *Liberty 3 Pros* today. Here are my impressions:

*The Good*
- Sleek case, LEDs are laid out well on the case and I like how they blink in an arrow fashion when firmware is being upgraded
- These have one of the best microphones for phone calls in my opinion
- ANC is really really good, about 90% of what you get with Sony XM4
- App is probably the best out there. You can customize all sort of touch, EQ, playback controls etc.
- Sub bass is perfect, mid bass is a bit lacking and can be felt on some tracks. Acceptable mid-bass for the most part though, so not a huge issue
- Soundstage is nice and wide on these!
- Firmware updates are very quick unlike an hour on B&O and MTW2s

*The Bad*
- Mids are VERY lacking on these buds and sound thin. Mids sound a bit tinny and metallic for lack of a better word. Best mids I heard were on Bang and Olufsen EQs, then Sennheiser MTW2. These sound very metallic...
- Transparency mode is not very good, and does not sound natural
- Treble is SO over the top that I ended up moving the last two EQ sliders all the way down. And I like my splashy treble, but this is a whole lot of treble. I think this Knowles BA is running wild to spit out this much treble. EQ fixes most of the excesive treble issue but they need to give a bit more control over bringing down the treble in my opinion.
- Would be nice to have control over ANC levels but not a huge issue.m (Thanks @voicemaster for the tip that switching to manual mode lets you control ANC level)

Nothing ugly here


----------



## voicemaster

VICosPhi said:


> Got the *Liberty 3 Pros* today. Here are my impressions:
> 
> *The Good*
> - Sleek case, LEDs are laid out well on the case and I like how they blink in an arrow fashion when firmware is being upgraded
> ...


You can control the ANC level by choosing manual mode.


----------



## webvan

Yeah, although as one reviewer said I'm not sure why'd you want to do that ? There is also an "adaptive" mode. It would be more useful to be able to tweak the transparency mode that is really poor as of now. Was it as bad on the L2P+ for those who have them ? On the Q30 it's pretty decent so it's not like they don't know how to implement it.


----------



## Toom

dweaver said:


> The bass settled down south being less bloated, The midrange became less muddy and the treble started to sparkle. That and the over sound stage improved.
> 
> Can't any more specific as we are talking over 10 years ago .


No, what had changed in *you*?


----------



## Tommy C (Oct 18, 2021)

webvan said:


> Yeah, although as one reviewer said I'm not sure why'd you want to do that ? There is also an "adaptive" mode. It would be more useful to be able to tweak the transparency mode that is really poor as of now. Was it as bad on the L2P+ for those who have them ? On the Q30 it's pretty decent so it's not like they don't know how to implement it.


I don’t have the L3P but on the L2P+ it’s very natural but lacks amplification. It’s good enough if you’re in the kitchen cooking and need to be available for to hear the doorbell or whatnot but it’s definitely not strong enough for my liking for a strong ambient mode.


----------



## voicemaster

Yeah the transparency mode in the L3P is not loud enough but it is noticeable when you are cycling thru the 3 modes. The good thing is that it sounds quite natural and not robotic but yeah you need to pause your music to be able to hear using the mode.


----------



## scottsays

Ceeluh7 said:


> I realize I am new to this group but I have been looking for a group of people who are knowledgeable in tws and audio in general. I've read many of the posts and.... Cool. Like minded people is always a good thing. Anyways,.... About the LP3... So far I am not at all impressed by the LP3 sound. Almost as though something is missing. Enough volume yet not crazy headroom. Tizzy highs. I've eq'd them almost to a decent point but still something is just not coherent in the sound between the Dynamic and the BA. To be honest I have yet to really anjoy and tws with LDAC. I figured I'd burn them in for a bit and try tip changes but... So far these might go back. I have the Grado GT220 coming tomorrow so I'm pretty happy about that






Ceeluh7 said:


> .GT220 is excellent...one of my very favorites . Sound is excellent and they have very loud output volume. I think you will really like them.


----------



## dweaver

Toom said:


> No, what had changed in *you*?


Normally I would agree with in regards to brain burn in. But in this case I was not actually using the IEM aside from spot check testing once a day. The rest of the time it was just playing music non stop in a drawer and I was using another headphone while it burned in. So don't think I had very much brain burn in this instance.

But I have had headphones where I simply had to use them for several days straight to get used to their signature. It's always a big shift when I go from a dark signature to a brighter one or vice versa.


----------



## Ceeluh7

I absolutely love them. You are 100% correct about that. Volume is the loudest I've heard so far. The whole spectrum sounds great on these. I'd say they are almost step to step with the Lypertek Z7. You are right these are great


----------



## voicemaster

Ceeluh7 said:


> I absolutely love them. You are 100% correct about that. Volume is the loudest I've heard so far. The whole spectrum sounds great on these. I'd say they are almost step to step with the Lypertek Z7. You are right these are great


Which?


----------



## nijfi

Confession time. Today I took delivery of a purple pair of LP3's. A BNIB pair came up on eBay the other night at a reduced price on even the limited time deal with Soundcore or Amazon. I took the gamble, as there's no returns, because the purple ones wouldn't have shipped this early from official sellers. They arrived still sealed in the cellophane, and all is good so far.

Initial impressions are very good!

Premium packaging, especially the selection of tips and wing tips. I've found a comfortable fit with the medium in left ear and small in right ear (Not something I managed with the stock tips on my NF Audios or old Klipsch IEM's). My memory foam tips fit but won't stay in my ears as the stems on the LP3'S are too short for them. The case is a nice pocketable size and open and closing is very smooth.

Connection with my Android phone was instant. Firmware updates through the app was fast. Both the initial one and the one further on to enable LDAC.

Customisation of the touch controls is amazing! Choice of 1 tap, 2 taps, 2 second hold and 3 taps for left and right. Assign what you want to what side you want and turn on or off what you want. Love it!

After charging the case fully, I first went through the HearID test. A pretty simple process for each ear bud. Same with the ANC test ( I played a YouTube video on the tv of a busy road for background noise for this).
The resulting sound it gave me is definitely on the bright side of what I'm used to, and there is that 'tizziness' in places, but I'm going to take advice offered on here further back and stick with it for a while before, if I need to, start playing with EQ. The sound is not quite of my choosing, and it is a bit thin, but it's certainly not unbearable, and sub bass weight is good. I want to see what burn in does to the sound too (again, following feedback given on here). For my first taste of wireless, I can already live with the sound quality, especially knowing there are EQ options available.

Pairing with my Sony ZX300 was fairly easy, although I did have to reconnect again to get the volume controls working on the Sony, after checking the right box on the Sony. All touch controls on the LP3's still work as per my initial set up too. I'm paired over LDAC with sound quality preferred and connection is stable with only the odd drop out so far. Range even seems pretty decent too. No multipoint connection with LDAC on though.

Overall, I'm very pleased so far. Just going to enjoy some extended listening now to see about burn in, but I can't see me not being happy with these as my wireless option. Although I have no other wireless options to compare them with to be fair.


----------



## Ceeluh7 (Oct 18, 2021)

voicemaster said:


> Which?


Grado GT220, sorry I realized I did not add the person I was speaking with. Still getting used to Head-fi man. All I used to go on here for was reviews, thankfully I found this thread... You guys are the only people talking about tws...


----------



## Darkestred (Oct 18, 2021)

Anyone with the L3P notice that the ambient modes in the soundcore app...both the HearID ANC and Transparency Mode sound the best?  Normal is kind of echo'y?  Anyway to fix that?  Id rather not have ANC on all the time and Transparency is annoying when nothing is going on.


oookay i switched to vocal and then back to trans and now its good? the hell.


----------



## Mouseman

I got the L3Ps this afternoon and I've been putting them through their paces for a few hours. I'm not having the "thin and shrill" experience - these things are bass cannons. Great wide soundstage. I have to play around with the EQ and SoundID some more. I'm a bit ticked that I can't pull over my L2P presets, but I'll do it by hand. There also has to be an easier way to combine the hear test and custom in the main EQ screen rather than bouncing back to the test pages. Those are easy app updates. 

I also have to play around with tips and wings, I'm getting a good seal test but I don't love the fit yet. I think it might be the wings, which are a little trickier to swap than the tips. 

But I'm impressed with the sound quality so far. 

I got the grey ones and the internal led is white - are the others the same? I need to figure out how to put a color filter or something in there. I saw a picture online where it looked blue and now I want that.


----------



## Tommy C (Oct 18, 2021)

I watched almost all reviews about the L3P on YouTube but somehow still feel they may not be for me.
I have limited experience with Soundcore as I had purchased and returned the L2P+. The fit was meh the sound was very good but something in the mids was always lacking although not recessed per se.

Anyone here has the L3P and the Nuratrue? I’m kind of interested to know which one is better.

And while I really like the sound of the Sennheiser CX 400BT they are a one trick pony, which I knew from day one as I didn’t need features but mainly sound quality and they deliver on that end.


----------



## voicemaster

Tommy C said:


> I watched almost all reviews about the L3P on YouTube but somehow still feel they may not be for me.
> I have limited experience with Soundcore as I had purchased and returned the L2P+. The fit was meh the sound was very good but something in the mids was always lacking although not recessed per se.
> 
> Anyone here has the L3P and the Nuratrue? I’m kind of interested to know which one is better.
> ...


The mid might be a little bit thin for some people.


----------



## nijfi

Mouseman said:


> I got the L3Ps this afternoon and I've been putting them through their paces for a few hours. I'm not having the "thin and shrill" experience - these things are bass cannons. Great wide soundstage. I have to play around with the EQ and SoundID some more. I'm a bit ticked that I can't pull over my L2P presets, but I'll do it by hand. There also has to be an easier way to combine the hear test and custom in the main EQ screen rather than bouncing back to the test pages. Those are easy app updates.
> 
> I also have to play around with tips and wings, I'm getting a good seal test but I don't love the fit yet. I think it might be the wings, which are a little trickier to swap than the tips.
> 
> ...


On the purple ones the internal led colour is also white.


----------



## VICosPhi

What runtime are you guys getting on the L3P? I tested these solely for phone calls today and right bud died in 4 hours (LDAC OFF) and left bud had 2 bars left in the Soundcore app. Since these are not master/slave type buds, I would expect the battery to drain roughly equally between both buds. Charged these to 100% and gonna test again...


----------



## webvan

I also got times out yesterday with my laptop not sure after how long. Both sides were in the red, I wish there was a percentage shown in the app.


----------



## nijfi

Tommy C said:


> I watched almost all reviews about the L3P on YouTube but somehow still feel they may not be for me.
> I have limited experience with Soundcore as I had purchased and returned the L2P+. The fit was meh the sound was very good but something in the mids was always lacking although not recessed per se.
> 
> Anyone here has the L3P and the Nuratrue? I’m kind of interested to know which one is better.
> ...


The two sound tests I saw on YouTube turned out to be worse than useless.

They were talking about the amazing bass. I heard no bass on those tests and the overall sound was very thin compared to the MX4 and a Sennheiser he was AB'ing against.

In reality these really deliver on the bass side. Plenty of weight on the sub bass and no boomy bass going on. Treble is on the bright side on the HearID it gave me and the sound isn't the warm full sound I'm used to.  It's by no means unlistenable though, and I feel it will improve, or at least can be worked with.

I'm really impressed all round. If you buy them on a 30 day return then they're definitely worth giving a go I'd say.


----------



## nijfi

VICosPhi said:


> What runtime are you guys getting on the L3P? I tested these solely for phone calls today and right bud died in 4 hours (LDAC OFF) and left bud had 2 bars left in the Soundcore app. Since these are not master/slave type buds, I would expect the battery to drain roughly equally between both buds. Charged these to 100% and gonna test again...


I used mine last night for about 4 to 5 hours. I fully charged them before I started listening. About half hour of that listening time was over SBC on my phone, all the rest on the Sony DAP over LDAC. I got a couple of low battery verbal warnings in my ears just before I finally called it a night, but they were still playing fine. I haven't had chance to reconnect to the phone app yet to see what battery levels are showing in there. I'll find that out later.

Battery on my Sony took quite a hit. Went from fully charged to two bars, so about half basically. All listening over LDAC, sound quality preferred, so I'd expect the battery to take a hit in that mode.


----------



## Ceeluh7

Tommy C said:


> I watched almost all reviews about the L3P on YouTube but somehow still feel they may not be for me.
> I have limited experience with Soundcore as I had purchased and returned the L2P+. The fit was meh the sound was very good but something in the mids was always lacking although not recessed per se.
> 
> Anyone here has the L3P and the Nuratrue? I’m kind of interested to know which one is better.
> ...


I'm still on the fence. There is an artificial something which seems to permeate the spectrum after the bass. I don't know if an update can help that or not. Almost as though the BA is not being pushed properly. I was looking hard at that nuratrue and decided on the liberty 3 Pro. I would like to know the same thing


----------



## Bhelpoori

VICosPhi said:


> What runtime are you guys getting on the L3P? I tested these solely for phone calls today and right bud died in 4 hours (LDAC OFF) and left bud had 2 bars left in the Soundcore app. Since these are not master/slave type buds, I would expect the battery to drain roughly equally between both buds. Charged these to 100% and gonna test again...


According to SoundCore you are supposed to get 4.5 hours on phone calls/VoIP calls.  Phone calls use a different profile than audio streaming so the LDAC setting is irrelevant. The bud that died was the one that was being used for microphone/processing so inbalance is what I would expect. Below is what I cut/pasted from SoundCore's website:






You'll find lots of TWS perform worse on phone calls for battery life rather than streaming, particularly ones with multiple microphones and signal processing. The AIrpods 3 for example are, from the Apple website:

Up to 6 hours of listening time with a single charge (up to 5 hours with spatial audio enabled)
Up to 4 hours of talk time with a single charge


----------



## Darkestred

I dont think the l3p sound thin, either but they do in Normal mode.  The other two ambient modes really thicken them out.  I just dont want to stay on anc and have crap battery life and i dont know if transparency is any better.  I dont wear them enough to know or find out.


----------



## Mouseman

webvan said:


> I also got times out yesterday with my laptop not sure after how long. Both sides were in the red, I wish there was a percentage shown in the app.


If you're talking about the L3Ps, the app does show battery percentage. It's under the picture of the buds. Also shows the case as a separate percentage.


----------



## Ceeluh7

Has anyone here had a chance to check out the Nuarl N10 Plus? I've been curious of Nuarl for quite awhile but lack of reviews keep me away. I know the N6 Pro 2 has gotten some very good reviews this year. "Brian Unboxed" did a review as well as "Gamesky" but I just didn't get enough info about how they actually sound, hoping for someone who has actually spent some time with these.


----------



## d3myz

Mouseman said:


> If you're talking about the L3Ps, the app does show battery percentage. It's under the picture of the buds. Also shows the case as a separate percentage.


Not on iOS 15  

Been a while since i've been here. glad to see the thread is still going strong. I recently also got the L3P and the Jabra Elite 7 pro's. These L3p's are pretty sensational, but the have a lot of flaws as has been mentioned, mostly functionality wise. Touch pads too sensitive for my liking, transparency is sub par, ANC is on the weaker side, phone calls and zoom calls sound metallic and i've had a couple dropped connection issues. The most irritating is that you can't switch to transparency mode with a single bud in. Really Anker? 

 I used the hear id and did not like the profile it created for me, so I used the manual eq and Wow! Love the heavy bass w/o losing detail. I hear a lot of folks talking about the weaker mids, I partially concur, but may I offer that a LOT of the buds that I have heard in the TWS arena and many mentioned on this thread have the mids pushed forward which is also the way I like them, so there's that. I personally didn't expect to get great mids out of the BA/DD like the Nuarl N6p's or even the legendary Anbes 360's, Yes, I said it. #neverforget. I'm still on the fence about the L3p, Like any early adoption they have some work to do with the functionality, but for $150-170. It's probably a great set to have in my collection. Any one else have the Elite 7 pro's I need some impressions?


----------



## voicemaster

Darkestred said:


> I dont think the l3p sound thin, either but they do in Normal mode.  The other two ambient modes really thicken them out.  I just dont want to stay on anc and have crap battery life and i dont know if transparency is any better.  I dont wear them enough to know or find out.


Yes, ANC has a little bit more mid bass by not much but noticeable to me. The bass is a touch punchier too.


----------



## voicemaster

Ceeluh7 said:


> Has anyone here had a chance to check out the Nuarl N10 Plus? I've been curious of Nuarl for quite awhile but lack of reviews keep me away. I know the N6 Pro 2 has gotten some very good reviews this year. "Brian Unboxed" did a review as well as "Gamesky" but I just didn't get enough info about how they actually sound, hoping for someone who has actually spent some time with these.


I don't have the N6P2 but the N6P is one of the best sounding TWS I've ever heard. Since I don't have many higher or more expensive TWS, I will make a comparison with moondrop Aria later.


----------



## d3myz (Oct 19, 2021)

voicemaster said:


> Yeah the transparency mode in the L3P is not loud enough but it is noticeable when you are cycling thru the 3 modes. The good thing is that it sounds quite natural and not robotic but yeah you need to pause your music to be able to hear using the mode.


How do they Grado GT220's compare to the Lypertek Tevi? They seem grossly overpriced for what they offer.


----------



## Ceeluh7

voicemaster said:


> I don't have the N6P2 but the N6P is one of the best sounding TWS I've ever heard. Since I don't have many higher or more expensive TWS, I will make a comparison with moondrop Aria later.


Nice... I love the Aria... Reverse starline tips, upgrade cable... I'll look forward to seeing that, but man... N6p would have some tough shoes to fill. Cool


----------



## voicemaster (Oct 19, 2021)

Ceeluh7 said:


> Nice... I love the Aria... Reverse starline tips, upgrade cable... I'll look forward to seeing that, but man... N6p would have some tough shoes to fill. Cool


I haven't really compare tws to wired iem, but I don't think n6p lacking in sound quality.
I choose the Aria as I think it is a pretty good base to compare to.


----------



## adnhussn

Ceeluh7 said:


> Has anyone here had a chance to check out the Nuarl N10 Plus? I've been curious of Nuarl for quite awhile but lack of reviews keep me away. I know the N6 Pro 2 has gotten some very good reviews this year. "Brian Unboxed" did a review as well as "Gamesky" but I just didn't get enough info about how they actually sound, hoping for someone who has actually spent some time with these.


I’ve had them for a few months now. I posted about them earlier in the thread. Used them as my daily driver everyday until my L3P arrived last week (and I may still go back to the N10, haven’t decided). They sound great out of the box – I’ve yet to find TWS tuned so well, though I hear the N6P2 sound slightly better. Fantastic clarity and never too harsh. They have multipoint (I don’t think that’s offered by the N6P2), decent but not amazing mics, and passable ANC. Battery life is solid. The app is a bit limited; for example, it only has preset EQs of Flat, Clarity, and the Default setting that I prefer.


----------



## clerkpalmer

Does the LP3 beat the CA MT for SQ?


----------



## jant71 (Oct 19, 2021)

Here ya go... https://www.victor.jp/headphones/wireless/ha-fw1000t/



        JVC KENWOOD announced the HA-FW1000T, a model from the Victor brand that achieved high sound quality equivalent to wired high-class earphones by installing its own "wood" diaphragm for the first time in a completely wireless earphone . It will be released from the beginning of November. Although it is an open price, it is expected to be sold for around 39,600 yen including tax.




HA-FW1000T



For the first time, the "WOOD" diaphragm, which the company has developed for JVC brand and JVC brand wired earphones / headphones as the "WOOD series", has been introduced into completely wireless earphones. It is said that it was developed with the concept of "complete wireless earphones that can enjoy full-scale high-quality sound of wired high-class earphones", and it is equipped with a large-diameter 11mm wood dome carbon driver that uses the same grade materials and technology as wired high-class earphones. So, it is appealing that it will realize "full-scale high-quality sound".       




Charging case



The company explained that "wood" has a high sound propagation speed and excellent vibration damping characteristics, making it an ideal material for diaphragms. By combining a wood dome processed with "wood" with a carbon-coated PET diaphragm, the propagation speed and damping characteristics are improved. In addition to the large-diameter 11mm wood dome carbon diaphragm, the wood dome carbon driver uses the same grade materials and technology as wired high-class earphones such as stainless steel driver cases.       

Also equipped with a noise canceling function. In addition to the hybrid active noise canceling function that employs two microphones, the latest noise canceling technology Qualcomm Adaptive Noise Canceling, which provides a high noise canceling effect, is adopted.       

With this technology, by constantly monitoring the state of wearing on the ear, the noise canceling level is automatically corrected even if the wearing is misaligned. We are trying to obtain a stable and high noise canceling effect at any time.       

In addition, the earpiece also comes with a newly developed "Spiral Dot Pro Earpiece", which enhances the passive noise canceling effect. In addition, since the noise canceling function can be turned on even during a call, it is also appealing that it is possible to talk comfortably even in a noisy environment such as when going out.       

For wireless music signal transmission, the completely wireless earphones are equipped with the original digital high-quality sound technology "K2 technology" for the first time. It is said that the high frequency band of compressed and deteriorated digital sound sources and minute signals are expanded to reproduce high sound quality equivalent to high resolution with quality approaching that of the original master. Since the earphone side determines the codec type and performs signal processing, the effect of this technology can be obtained regardless of the device to be connected.       

In addition to SBC, AAC, and aptX, the Bluetooth codec supports high-resolution compatible high-quality sound codec aptX Adaptive audio that supports up to 96kHz / 24bit. Wireless transmission with higher sound quality is possible when connecting to a smartphone or player that supports aptX Adaptive.       

Supports Qualcomm TrueWireless Mirroring, a left-right independent transmission technology. In addition to supporting Bluetooth Ver.5.2 and Power Class 1, the stability of the wireless connection is also improved by adopting a high-performance LDS antenna.       

As mentioned above, the earpiece uses the newly developed "Spiral Dot Pro Earpiece". Comes with 5 sizes (S, MS, M, ML, L).       

In the same earpiece, the conventional "spiral dot" that suppresses the turbidity of the sound and realizes a clear sound by diffusing the reflected sound by arranging the dots in a spiral shape on the inner wall and optimizing the balance with the direct sound. ], A new spiral convex shape has been added. The overall form has also been modified to improve the reproducibility of even more delicate sounds. In addition, a soft grade silicone material is used to improve the fit and tightness. At this time, there are no plans to sell this earpiece separately.       

The "Tuned by VICTOR STUDIO" logo is also added to indicate that the sound is recognized by professionals at the music production site. Victor Studio engineers are participating in the sound quality tuning of this unit, and they are injecting the studio engineer's knowledge of sound into JVC KENWOOD's acoustic design technology.       

Newly adopted 100-step volume step and mounting sensor. It is possible to finely adjust the volume in 100 steps like a full-scale audio device, and it is possible to smoothly adjust the volume to your liking according to the song or situation. In addition, the mounting sensor prevents erroneous touch operations and automatically selects the appropriate operation mode according to the usage scene.       

Equipped with a new "mask mode" that corrects the muffled voice when wearing a mask. In addition, the earphone body is equipped with a call microphone on / off function so that the microphone can be easily switched to mute without operating the connected device, making it suitable for teleworking. In addition, you can talk on either the left or right side with just one ear, and it also uses Qualcomm cVc noise canceling technology and a high-performance MEMS microphone.       

Equipped with a touch and talk function that lowers the volume of music with a single touch and captures external sounds with a microphone. In addition, the body shape adopts a curve along the ear. The shape of the body, which comes into contact with the ears on a wide surface, realizes a comfortable and stable fit.       

As for battery performance, a maximum of 9 hours of continuous playback with the main unit alone and a maximum of 27 hours of long-term playback can be achieved by combining a full charge with the charging case. It also supports quick charging, which allows playback for up to 1.5 hours with a 10-minute charge.       

In addition, IPX4 equivalent water resistant specifications are also adopted. The power is turned on just by removing the earphones from the charging case, and it is equipped with an auto-on & auto-connect function that allows automatic wireless connection, and it also supports activation of the voice assistant function of smartphones.


----------



## clerkpalmer

jant71 said:


> Here ya go...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Lol. When I was a teenager Kenwood was the crap. Receivers, multi care players. I loved Kenwood and Onkyo.


----------



## jant71 (Oct 19, 2021)

clerkpalmer said:


> Lol. When I was a teenager Kenwood was the crap. Receivers, multi care players. I loved Kenwood and Onkyo.



Well this is the more premium Victor Studio arm of the company. The Kenwood TWS is the Be driver "smart" earphones...
https://www.kenwood.com/jp/audio/smartheadsets/products/ws-a1/


----------



## clerkpalmer

jant71 said:


> Well this is the more premium Victor Studio arm of the company. The Kenwood TWS is the Be driver "smart" earphones...
> https://www.kenwood.com/jp/audio/smartheadsets/products/ws-a1/


Well they look pretty cool.


----------



## Tommy C

jant71 said:


> Here ya go... https://www.victor.jp/headphones/wireless/ha-fw1000t/
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Sure hope they will come with a solid app with eq and some bells and whistles.


----------



## bladefd

Tommy C said:


> Sure hope they will come with a solid app with eq and some bells and whistles.


Especially for $350 lol. Won't be an option for most people.. Certainly not me. My limit is $200 - might be willing to push to $250 max


----------



## Tommy C

bladefd said:


> Especially for $350 lol. Won't be an option for most people.. Certainly not me. My limit is $200 - might be willing to push to $250 max


I have a feeling it won’t have an app lol 
Just a wild guess.


----------



## Ceeluh7

adnhussn said:


> I’ve had them for a few months now. I posted about them earlier in the thread. Used them as my daily driver everyday until my L3P arrived last week (and I may still go back to the N10, haven’t decided). They sound great out of the box – I’ve yet to find TWS tuned so well, though I hear the N6P2 sound slightly better. Fantastic clarity and never too harsh. They have multipoint (I don’t think that’s offered by the N6P2), decent but not amazing mics, and passable ANC. Battery life is solid. The app is a bit limited; for example, it only has preset EQs of Flat, Clarity, and the Default setting that I prefer.


Thank you... I was looking at the N6 Pro 2 but ran across the N10 plus on Amazon and was simply wondering what the differences were other than Anc. Thanks


----------



## tiagopinto

dweaver said:


> Hearing all the angst about the L3P reminds me of my first big expensive buys. I bought the Sennheiser IE8 and they sounded like garbage OOB it took in excess of 100hrs of burn in before they opened up and sounded good.
> 
> I would only listen for a few minutes every day after playing music non stop for 24 hours. After 4 solid days of this crazy process and them sounding god awful each day I was ready to give the damn things away. The suddenly I put them on and played the exact same track and wham they sounded open and wonderful.
> 
> Being a typical headphone junky the siren call of something new eventually made me sell them and try something different but I never forgot that lesson on patience  .



Oh so very true. Drivers NEED burn-in. Every type of headphone or speaker.


----------



## tma6 (Oct 20, 2021)

Liking the L3Ps so far, though def needs EQ. Didn’t love out of the box or hear ID tuning. Highs out of the box sound a bit tinny and harsh, and upper mids too recessed. After EQ though it has really good detail retrieval, I’d say better than L2P. Still got that nice bass response of the L2Ps (which needs to be tamed imo). Overall a really nice package at a good price. Call quality for me has been very good over a few days and ANC is above average.


----------



## clerkpalmer

These look pretty decent: worried about Android performance although I have an iPad. 

https://9to5mac.com/2021/10/18/exclusive-these-are-the-new-beats-fit-pro-earbuds/amp/


----------



## Juturna

Darkestred said:


> I dont think the l3p sound thin, either but they do in Normal mode.  The other two ambient modes really thicken them out.  I just dont want to stay on anc and have crap battery life and i dont know if transparency is any better.  I dont wear them enough to know or find out.


Is it not a bit ironic that you care about crap battery life but don't wear them enough to even find out if transparency mode would be better? Seems like battery would be a non-issue at that point.


----------



## nijfi

tiagopinto said:


> Oh so very true. Drivers NEED burn-in. Every type of headphone or speaker.


I'm still building the foundations of my wireless house. Not a roof tile in sight yet.

Wading through hours of listening on the LP3s with the less than ideal, but tolerable, sound settings that HearID gave me. Not even touched the EQ.

About 8 hours in so far, whilst my beloved wired options sit idle. I'm convinced it'll pay off in the long run.


----------



## jsmiller58

The Hby WH2 were eagerly anticipated for a while on this thread, but they seem to have disappeared from the collective consciousness…. Any owner impressions out there, and what TWS they might be best compared to?


----------



## webvan

More testing of the L3Ps this morning and I'm not enjoying the SQ as much as I initially did...hard to pinpoint exactly but while the scene is very wide and pleasing there is some "harshness" that gets a bit annoying and there seems to be a gap in the bass/mid area as others have pointed out between the sub bass and the mids.

Also the isolation is inferior to the Echobuds v1 although it's still pretty good, MTW2 level I would say. The fit and seal are good but I really don't like the "sticking out" part as it "catches the wind" and doesn't press against the ears, hence the weaker passive isolation I think.

Not sure if they're a keeper after all vs my Echobuds/L2P combo...


----------



## jant71 (Oct 20, 2021)

jsmiller58 said:


> The Hby WH2 were eagerly anticipated for a while on this thread, but they seem to have disappeared from the collective consciousness…. Any owner impressions out there, and what TWS they might be best compared to?


People perk up esp. earlier on when LDAC was mentioned but few were gonna buy it. Esp. being a Kickstarter and little in the way of features and having low battery life. Smaller Chinese brands not as trusted either.


----------



## Ceeluh7

webvan said:


> More testing of the L3Ps this morning and I'm not enjoying the SQ as much as I initially did...hard to pinpoint exactly but while the scene is very wide and pleasing there is some "harshness" that gets a bit annoying and there seems to be a gap in the bass/mid area as others have pointed out between the sub bass and the mids.
> 
> Also the isolation is inferior to the Echobuds v1 although it's still pretty good, MTW2 level I would say. The fit and seal are good but I really don't like the "sticking out" part as it "catches the wind" and doesn't press against the ears, hence the weaker passive isolation I think.
> 
> Not sure if they're a keeper after all vs my Echobuds/L2P combo...


Exactly... There is something off... Definitely a metallic zzz at the ends of most notes... The BA is not tuned very well I don't think. So far I have yet to be perfectly pleased by these and I'm thinking... So far... They are prob going back. That isn't to say they are horrible by any stretch either, but Soundcore just seems as though they have real issues with their BA's


----------



## Ceeluh7

jsmiller58 said:


> The Hby WH2 were eagerly anticipated for a while on this thread, but they seem to have disappeared from the collective consciousness…. Any owner impressions out there, and what TWS they might be best compared to?


I have also wondered about these. I was hoping they'd go on market on Amazon but so far they have not. Some decent reviews are out there.


----------



## jant71

Many TWS have a honeymoon period earlier and then some bounce back and more criticism comes along later. Though some criticism coming pretty fast with the L3P.


----------



## tma6

Ceeluh7 said:


> Exactly... There is something off... Definitely a metallic zzz at the ends of most notes... The BA is not tuned very well I don't think. So far I have yet to be perfectly pleased by these and I'm thinking... So far... They are prob going back. That isn't to say they are horrible by any stretch either, but Soundcore just seems as though they have real issues with their BA's


Here’s my EQ for those interested. I hear the same, highs out of the box sound very metallic. I’m also getting connection issues  on windows using multipoint, which makes me feel like this is a bit of a half baked system. 

If anyone wants to try my EQ lmk what you think


----------



## clerkpalmer

Ceeluh7 said:


> I have also wondered about these. I was hoping they'd go on market on Amazon but so far they have not. Some decent reviews are out there.


I have the BA version.  They are as expected.  Clinical, accurate, lacking some bass.  Sound is very neutral.  A nice package for the money.  The app is really nice as is the case and their size.  The option to adjust the crossover is pretty cool.  I don't reach for them much largely because when I'm using TWS, I've concluded I prefer a little more oomph.  I have wired headphones for a neutral purpose.  I'll give them another run today and provide some thoughts.


----------



## Darkestred (Oct 20, 2021)

Juturna said:


> Is it not a bit ironic that you care about crap battery life but don't wear them enough to even find out if transparency mode would be better? Seems like battery would be a non-issue at that point.



No.  I never provided any more info nor was i intending to.

When im buying TWS sound and battery life go hand-in-hand.  Which means if i cant replicate ANC or Transparency via EQ then i personally have an issue with the L3P

Since i have limited time in my day as a business owner, who also is getting busier; i have less and less time.  while i dont wear them enough to find out.  I have not read any documentation on them

...i will use a TWS solution when i find one i can have in my ears to take calls and other things of that nature during the day and provides more than 4 hours of juice.

A bit wordy and extra but i wasnt really expecting anyone to quote me let alone with a comment like this on3.

Hope that clears the irony up.


----------



## CocaCola15

clerkpalmer said:


> Lol. When I was a teenager Kenwood was the crap. Receivers, multi care players. I loved Kenwood and Onkyo.


I still have a Kenwood home theater receiver, powering my PSB 5.1 setup. Works great!


----------



## clerkpalmer

CocaCola15 said:


> I still have a Kenwood home theater receiver, powering my PSB 5.1 setup. Works great!


Love me some Kenwood separates.  Give me some Dolby Pro Logic, DSP, about 20 pounds, paired to some Klipsch or Definitive Tech towers and that was all I needed to guaranty my permanent hearing damage.


----------



## Tommy C

What's the verdict on the 1More Comfobuds Pro?
They are on sale here in Blue which is the only model that has the pre-set eq. How silly is that? lol 

I thought they weren't good but I guess I remembered the original version.
Sound quality is balanced but warm according to a few reviews. Excellent call quality and ANC is surprisingly good. Stem design is ugly but for $60 looks like a solid option.


----------



## Ceeluh7

Anyone had any experience with the Monster Inspiration 700 Anc? Amazon has a good deal... Just curious


----------



## clerkpalmer

Ceeluh7 said:


> Anyone had any experience with the Monster Inspiration 700 Anc? Amazon has a good deal... Just curious


Generally avoid Monster here as they are now essentially a rebrand I believe.  I suppose if the price is low enough but I'd be surprised if you you couldn't do better.


----------



## Ceeluh7

clerkpalmer said:


> Generally avoid Monster here as they are now essentially a rebrand I believe.  I suppose if the price is low enough but I'd be surprised if you you couldn't do better.


Ya I saw they took the shell of the ally tws and monolith... Doesn't necessarily mean it's a complete rebrand. Like Mifo and Hiby.... Lypertek and Noble Audio... Same shell with different design. Maybe similar or the same drivers with slightly altered tuning. Unless of course it's obvious they used the exact same driver and circuitry, tuned the same... Which may be the case. I was just curious, really was hoping I'd see someone say.. "Dude these are amazing!! "... But I guess I'm always hoping for that... Lol


----------



## darveniza

In the multiple postings here people have been talking about actual comparisons between different TWS , measurements,  even people about noise distortions and generally you just can find generic or not really standardised approach

Just using Liberty Pro 3 this site is from Korea and they have measurements, comparisons but very structured and you can find basically most TW on the site: Deviant, B&O, MD,etc 

Turn your captions on and you can follow pretty easily


----------



## Tommy C

Ceeluh7 said:


> Anyone had any experience with the Monster Inspiration 700 Anc? Amazon has a good deal... Just curious


Yes, I had them but returned them because the volume was too low, at least with the iPhone.
The ANC is just OK, Ambient is pretty solid. The sound is nice and warm with good bass but not boomy. Soundstage is fairly wide.
They have no app which is the biggest con. 


Ceeluh7 said:


> Ya I saw they took the shell of the ally tws and monolith... Doesn't necessarily mean it's a complete rebrand. Like Mifo and Hiby.... Lypertek and Noble Audio... Same shell with different design. Maybe similar or the same drivers with slightly altered tuning. Unless of course it's obvious they used the exact same driver and circuitry, tuned the same... Which may be the case. I was just curious, really was hoping I'd see someone say.. "Dude these are amazing!! "... But I guess I'm always hoping for that... Lol



you're correct. It's basically not only the same shell as the Ally and Monolith but the same chipset too and if I'm not mistaken same chipset as the Nuratrue. 
The chipset is a better chipset than most of the other entry level chipsets that are being implemented in much more expensive TWS. 

You could probably do better but you can also do far worse for $70. 

If you like uncolored sound with strong mids but nice bass which isn't too dominant my vote goes to the Fiil T1XS and they come with a good app and full eq feature and pre-sets.


----------



## Ceeluh7

Tommy C said:


> Yes, I had them but returned them because the volume was too low, at least with the iPhone.
> The ANC is just OK, Ambient is pretty solid. The sound is nice and warm with good bass but not boomy. Soundstage is fairly wide.
> They have no app which is the biggest con.
> 
> ...


Thank you bro... I can already tell you... If the volume is lacking... I won't like it, give me headroom to play with the volume. I have gone back and forth on getting the t1xs for more than a year and I've seen every review so I'm glad you said that. I have so many pairs of tws man.. Lol. I would prob purchase them simply out of curiosity. Amazon had them (maybe still do) for under 40 which, with all you stated seems pretty damn good. Honestly Tommy I'm just like everyone else here, searching for that sound in thee most portable form... Tws sucked me in man. I seem to go to them more than wired  iems anymore, which is something I would have never done in the past. Anyways, I appreciate your response


----------



## Tommy C (Oct 21, 2021)

Ceeluh7 said:


> Thank you bro... I can already tell you... If the volume is lacking... I won't like it, give me headroom to play with the volume. I have gone back and forth on getting the t1xs for more than a year and I've seen every review so I'm glad you said that. I have so many pairs of tws man.. Lol. I would prob purchase them simply out of curiosity. Amazon had them (maybe still do) for under 40 which, with all you stated seems pretty damn good. Honestly Tommy I'm just like everyone else here, searching for that sound in thee most portable form... Tws sucked me in man. I seem to go to them more than wired  iems anymore, which is something I would have never done in the past. Anyways, I appreciate your response



No problem, man. Got the T1XS for $27 and couldn’t be happier. I usually pick them up when leaving the house before the Sennheiser CX 400BT which are also very nice sound wise.
But the T1XS have a solid ambient mode which I can’t tell for half of the TWS that I have had.

I have the 1More Comfobuds Pro coming in next week so can let you know how I feel about them when I get them.
Was thinking of the L3P but I don’t think I’ll like them based what I read about their sort of artificial sound and quality of tuning.
For long listening sessions I prefer mellow sound with good imagining and a little tamed highs which is the complete opposite of the L3P and while I liked the L2P+ quite a bit I’m not missing them.


----------



## Ceeluh7 (Oct 20, 2021)

Tommy C said:


> No problem, man. Got the T1XS for $27 and couldn’t be happier. I usually pick them up for when leaving the house before the Sennheiser CX 400BT which are also very nice sound wise.
> But the T1XS has a solid ambient mode which which I can’t tell the same for half of the TWS that I have had.
> 
> I have the 1More Comfobuds Pro coming in next week so can let you know how I feel about them when I get them.
> ...


LP3 is not in your wheel house then. I keep trying to force myself to see the plusses in them but... I'm not kidding you... The artificial never stops, I have tried everything, even micropore tape over the nozzle, avery tip change I can come up with.. And I have an endless supply of them, eq'd these to death, burned them in, lol... Unless by some miracle in the next week Soundcore comes out with an update to tame them, (which I really don't think they can change something like that) than they are going back. Looking at the sennheiser cx plus now, Mw08, Nuratrue, and maybe the Nuarl N6 pro 2. I would say Devialet but I've seen too many people here complain of connection issues. Anywhoo... Thanks for the rec of the T1XS ...prob going to bite on them. I was hoping the t1 pro was going to come stateside but doubt that's ever going to happen so... T1XS it is. Oh and I am looking forward to what you think about the Comfobuds pro.


----------



## bladefd

Welp, left side on my MT might be done. For past 3 days I have been trying to charge. Red light turns on for about 10 secs then turns off. If I try to use it regardless of whether it's after 15 minutes on charge or next afternoon, it's at 2% battery. Says "battery very low" then turns off in 5 minutes. I tried alcohol swipe to clean, tried re-pairing the connection, fully charged the case even though it already had 3 bars charged.. I don't have anything else I could try.

I'm going to contact CA tonight. Hopefully, they allow RMA, and I'm selling the new ones they send me. It's pretty much either luck of the draw or perhaps TWS mode is better (my phone is Pixel 3 without TWS mode). It could certainly be a good set on the 3rd attempt, but I don't want to push my luck.

I was hoping I could push it back to black Friday. I don't have another pair of TWS though. I guess it's time to begin searching for new TWS..


----------



## Griffith (Oct 21, 2021)

It's been a few years since I last posted on this thread regarding "fully wireless" so I figured I'd update my thoughts many years later.

To answer the question: yes, now we are. Thanks to LDAC and AptX+ being more commonplace and because the Airpods, love them or hate them, popularized truly wireless IEMs there is now a wide range of devices that are not just competent, as wireless IEMs, but actually decent.

With that said, even the best of what wireless IEMs have to offer on today's market only rank above what I'd consider to be of average quality wired IEMs and there's nothing wrong with that, because some people would argue that they are at the point at which you start hitting diminishing returns in terms of sound quality.

Edit: if I were to rank the best-regarded wireless IEMs I would place them around the same level as the Vsonic GR07 Classic. I apologize if that reference is a bit too old, but it's the only product of that quality level I can make a comparison to.

You have a few options that are closer to the Harman Target Curve (Samsung's lineup) with some of them being quite affordable nowadays and even some of of the more mainstream options like Apple's Airpods Pro or Sony's Alphabetsoup-XM3/4 sound quite good.

There's also the predictable flurry of V-shaped earphones with each company producing their own flavor and shape, Sony notwithstanding, but the point is that the issues that used to plague wireless earphones a few years ago: unstable connections, crappy codec quality, true-wireless-iems cutting off, mediocre battery life... are all either gone or have been significantly reduced to a point where I don't think most consumers would notice a difference or feel compelled to buy a similarly priced wired IEM.

Personally, I think that the market should be a bit more open to consumer repairs, particularly battery replacements. Some companies like Sony and Samsung have made it relatively simple to open up their devices and have access to the battery, but in most cases, purchasing those batteries seems to be next to impossible because they have exclusive access to them, leaving consumers hanging even though their devices seem to have been made with repairability in mind.

Right now, this is my biggest issue with them. Regardless of how good they are, the majority of True Wireless IEMs have planed obsolescence built into them. and I think this is an issue that should get more consideration going forward.


----------



## adnhussn

darveniza said:


> In the multiple postings here people have been talking about actual comparisons between different TWS , measurements,  even people about noise distortions and generally you just can find generic or not really standardised approach
> 
> Just using Liberty Pro 3 this site is from Korea and they have measurements, comparisons but very structured and you can find basically most TW on the site: Deviant, B&O, MD,etc
> 
> Turn your captions on and you can follow pretty easily



This is fantastic, thanks for sharing. I’m enjoying the L3P much more now with the suggested EQ in the video (pause at 9:40 or see the attached screenshot).


----------



## chinmie

first impression:


----------



## jant71 (Oct 21, 2021)

^Speaking of Axell Grell,

Urbanista Lisbon...








Urbanista making their smallest model yet. Taking the stem off the earpod design but still doing what Earin should have done and give them ear fins. Tuned by Axell Grell. Grell said about the product, "It is designed so that you can feel the strength of the bass while maintaining the clear sound in the mid and high range, and the sound is different from other urbanista products." "In a good way, it betrays the low price. A completely wireless earphone that outperforms the user's expectations. "

Comes off as funny and like a slightly veiled dis. Like, hey, the sound is different than other Urbanistas. It sounds good for a change. Okay, not exactly what he said but kinda comes off that way.


----------



## gimmeshelter

Has anyone had a look at these?

I got the Kickstarter email from Linsoul today. 

https://peacockcomingsoon.linsoul.com/


----------



## jsmiller58 (Oct 21, 2021)

gimmeshelter said:


> Has anyone had a look at these?
> 
> I got the Kickstarter email from Linsoul today.
> 
> https://peacockcomingsoon.linsoul.com/


Just got the same email…. Would like to see some reviews first…

No aptX HD or LDAC seems a limiting choice on their part…


----------



## jant71

gimmeshelter said:


> Has anyone had a look at these?
> 
> I got the Kickstarter email from Linsoul today.
> 
> https://peacockcomingsoon.linsoul.com/


Yep, didn't even post about it. Another no ambient Chinese TWS that has no real features and is super wait and see. Just like that guy in the TWS video had to mention how he disliked the Sparks. Peacock is not anything to write home about as far as tuning. When it was Reecho and Peacock,  Reecho has turned out to be the one who can tune. Might be more interested if it was a Reecho.


----------



## jant71

So, you look at some brands and see why they just don't make the jump and make it bigger. Got an email from Tranya about there new T40 TWS. This has two buttons on each side for controls, no ANC, no ambient, yet you have to press a button 5(yes five) times to go from normal EQ to bass boost.


----------



## fairx

Hi guys. Sorry for off topic, but has anybody recable their tws? I mean making tws to wired. This sound ridiculous but I'm really liking my tws QCY T13 with kz tips. I seriously think going wired will give this tws more potential (bass control etc). The sound  destroy my modded Mh755 in mids and treble IMO


----------



## tinyman392

Drop has the JVC TWS available now.  It's 350 though, looks to be audio-focused.


----------



## Tommy C

tinyman392 said:


> Drop has the JVC TWS available now.  It's 350 though, looks to be audio-focused.


Drop, eh? 😏
Price is rather steep and it’s not clear if they come with an app and if they are equipped with some features but guess not.


----------



## jant71

Tommy C said:


> Drop, eh? 😏
> Price is rather steep and it’s not clear if they come with an app and if they are equipped with some features but guess not.



Not as bad as something like the Noble FoKus. We know they have some features. They have ambient, they have a mask mode for voice, ANC, 100 step fine volume control, The K2 anti compression tech(like Sony DSEE but suppose to be a bit better), and the usual for ANC IPX 4 protection. Also comes with decent tips in the Spiral Dot Pro. No app though.


----------



## Tommy C

jant71 said:


> Not as bad as something like the Noble FoKus. We know they have some features. They have ambient, they have a mask mode for voice, ANC, 100 step fine volume control, The K2 anti compression tech(like Sony DSEE but suppose to be a bit better), and the usual for ANC IPX 4 protection. Also comes with decent tips in the Spiral Dot Pro. No app though.



Yeah, some decent features but makes me wonder how they will be controlled without an app. Something doesn’t add up


----------



## jant71 (Oct 21, 2021)

Tommy C said:


> Yeah, some decent features but makes me wonder how they will be controlled without an app. Something doesn’t add up



Since I have had the most JVC TWS I will speculate on it. They will probably follow the earlier ANC scheme



K2 will probably be 3 taps on the right like the controls on my JVC runners wireless which has the same scheme as well except minus the ANC cycle and the bass boost is three touches on the right bud.

The first Victor TWS operated with the same scheme as well. Again no ANC just ambient and off with one touch on the right.

If someone can translate, I'm pretty sure at least one of the videos out already talks about the controls.


----------



## clerkpalmer

Tommy C said:


> Drop, eh? 😏
> Price is rather steep and it’s not clear if they come with an app and if they are equipped with some features but guess not


Hard to buy from Drop. No return policy. I don't like to use return policies often but to spend 350 without reviews and no returns is tough to swallow.  My fokus arrive tomorrow and my expectations are high given the lack of features they will need to sing.


----------



## Ceeluh7

jant71 said:


> Yep, didn't even post about it. Another no ambient Chinese TWS that has no real features and is super wait and see. Just like that guy in the TWS video had to mention how he disliked the Sparks. Peacock is not anything to write home about as far as tuning. When it was Reecho and Peacock,  Reecho has turned out to be the one who can tune. Might be more interested if it was a Reecho.


Agreed... The Spring set was well tuned. These at the very least look nice...


----------



## jant71

clerkpalmer said:


> Hard to buy from Drop. No return policy. I don't like to use return policies often but to spend 350 without reviews and no returns is tough to swallow.  My fokus arrive tomorrow and my expectations are high given the lack of features they will need to sing.


Yep these are both $350 and more about the sound. You might be quite happy with the Noble even at $350 if they sound good enough. The Victor if a real good woodie performance will be fine as well and a good price since only the FW01 is cheaper at $330 as far as good woodies.

People can get into TWS and the price based on them crapping out eventually due to the batteries but that is a different thing.


----------



## clerkpalmer

Still waiting on my RMA for my EQs. Been 2 weeks. I called once and they said "up to 10 business days".  Any have the same experience? What on earth could take so long?


----------



## Tommy C

clerkpalmer said:


> Hard to buy from Drop. No return policy. I don't like to use return policies often but to spend 350 without reviews and no returns is tough to swallow.  My fokus arrive tomorrow and my expectations are high given the lack of features they will need to sing.



Same. Normally I don't return stuff often unless it just didn't meet my expectations, or something is wrong with the item, however at $350 this is quite an investment for an unknown commodity.


----------



## clerkpalmer

Tommy C said:


> Same. Normally I don't return stuff often unless it just didn't meet my expectations, or something is wrong with the item, however at $350 this is quite an investment for an unknown commodity.


They honestly look pretty sweet and I'm warming up to the idea of grabbing them.  I'll test the Fokus first and see how that goes.  I'm becoming more dependent on ANC in my TWS than I first expected so that may end up being an issue for me.


----------



## clerkpalmer

Tommy C said:


> Same. Normally I don't return stuff often unless it just didn't meet my expectations, or something is wrong with the item, however at $350 this is quite an investment for an unknown commodity.


Regarding returns, I agree.   Returns drive up the cost for everyone; I try to be very judicious.


----------



## BooleanBones (Oct 21, 2021)

clerkpalmer said:


> Still waiting on my RMA for my EQs. Been 2 weeks. I called once and they said "up to 10 business days".  Any have the same experience? What on earth could take so long?


They may have been busy releasing the more expensive new color (Nordic Ice)  I did have to call them about my refund today on a set I sent back the first of October. Have not gotten the explanation on that yet. I do like those folks there though, very personable generally.


----------



## erockg

BooleanBones said:


> They may have been busy releasing the more expensive new color (Nordic Ice)  I did have to call them about my refund today on a set I sent back the first of October. Have not gotten the explanation on that yet. I do like those folks there though, very personable generally.


I just got that email.  They're certifiable.  Charging that much more for a color?!?!


----------



## BooleanBones

erockg said:


> I just got that email.  They're certifiable.  Charging that much more for a color?!?!


It's a lot of work repainting those returns


----------



## jant71

erockg said:


> I just got that email.  They're certifiable.  Charging that much more for a color?!?!


Noooo. You get this with them as well...


----------



## erockg

jant71 said:


> Noooo. You get this with them as well...


I can accept that


----------



## Tommy C

bladefd said:


> Welp, left side on my MT might be done. For past 3 days I have been trying to charge. Red light turns on for about 10 secs then turns off. If I try to use it regardless of whether it's after 15 minutes on charge or next afternoon, it's at 2% battery. Says "battery very low" then turns off in 5 minutes. I tried alcohol swipe to clean, tried re-pairing the connection, fully charged the case even though it already had 3 bars charged.. I don't have anything else I could try.
> 
> I'm going to contact CA tonight. Hopefully, they allow RMA, and I'm selling the new ones they send me. It's pretty much either luck of the draw or perhaps TWS mode is better (my phone is Pixel 3 without TWS mode). It could certainly be a good set on the 3rd attempt, but I don't want to push my luck.
> 
> I was hoping I could push it back to black Friday. I don't have another pair of TWS though. I guess it's time to begin searching for new TWS..



Damn... Sorry to hear about your CA MT. 
Probably a good idea to RMA and sell the new pair.


----------



## vsg28

Here's a pair very few have had hands on: https://www.techpowerup.com/review/hifiman-tws800-high-impedance-true-wireless-earphones/


----------



## Tommy C

vsg28 said:


> Here's a pair very few have had hands on: https://www.techpowerup.com/review/hifiman-tws800-high-impedance-true-wireless-earphones/



Good review but these won't be selling like hot cakes.
Bad battery life, big case and huge buds.
Looks like too little too late with a hefty price tag by Hifiman.


----------



## vsg28

Tommy C said:


> Good review but these won't be selling like hot cakes.
> Bad battery life, big case and huge buds.
> Looks like too little too late with a hefty price tag by Hifiman.


Yeah it's a weird experiment that is too expensive to try out at the moment. But if this also gets a 50% discount as the TWS600, then it is back in consideration imo.


----------



## jant71

Tommy C said:


> Good review but these won't be selling like hot cakes.
> Bad battery life, big case and huge buds.
> Looks like too little too late with a hefty price tag by Hifiman.


Not really too little too late. These are ancient now by TWS standards. As in my earlier post today this is one of those Chi-Fi brands models that promised audiophile SQ and came and went. The low battery is more okay because of the amp in the same way as the Pi7 but no features and only SBC/AAC and past Hifiman QC control issues and other options keep people away.


----------



## clerkpalmer (Oct 21, 2021)

vsg28 said:


> Yeah it's a weird experiment that is too expensive to try out at the moment. But if this also gets a 50% discount as the TWS600, then it is back in consideration imo.


Strange product.  They are pushing high end bluetooth in their cans yet they produce this TWS with AAC and SBC?  Obviously, they don't think codecs matter for TWS.  The value to performance ratio for the Deva is off the charts.  These look like the opposite.  Literally zero interest in these at $299.  Edit - $329 gets you the new Deva Pro with full size planar drivers and the bluemini with its tech goodness and LDAC.  They sound amazing wireless and even better wired.  And $299 gets you these lackluster TWS?  I know where my money would go.


----------



## jant71

clerkpalmer said:


> Strange product.  They are pushing high end bluetooth in their cans yet they produce this TWS with AAC and SBC?  Obviously, they don't think codecs matter for TWS.  The value to performance ratio for the Deva is off the charts.  These look like the opposite.  Literally zero interest in these at $299.  Edit - $329 gets you the new Deva Pro with full size planar drivers and the bluemini with its tech goodness and LDAC.  They sound amazing wireless and even better wired.  And $299 gets you these lackluster TWS?  I know where my money would go.


Not to mention that case would need a case or it will get scratched up.  Not sure what the reviews said but I'm sure some would be worried about the volume headroom since they are 150ohm .


----------



## BigZ12 (Oct 21, 2021)

Tripowin x HBB Mele on TRN BT30 with Azla SednaEarfit XELASTEC.
No ANC, transparency mode, app or volume controls..... but my G... it sounds great!
Better than any TWS!


----------



## Ceeluh7

BigZ12 said:


> Tripowin x HBB Mele on TRN BT30 with Azla SednaEarfit XELASTEC.
> No ANC, transparency mode, app or volume controls..... but my G... it sounds great!
> Better than any TWS!


Dude... I've been wanting the Mele for awhile now... Waiting Amozon to stock it on prime, when I do for sure those bad boys are going on the UTWS3.


----------



## voicemaster (Oct 21, 2021)

BigZ12 said:


> Tripowin x HBB Mele on TRN BT30 with Azla SednaEarfit XELASTEC.
> No ANC, transparency mode, app or volume controls..... but my G... it sounds great!
> Better than any TWS!


I am using my Mele with my BT20s pro too. Didn't know TRN release BT30 already.


----------



## voicemaster

Works great with 7hz Timeless too. And for the Timeless itself, it is absolutely awesome.


----------



## CocaCola15

darveniza said:


> In the multiple postings here people have been talking about actual comparisons between different TWS , measurements,  even people about noise distortions and generally you just can find generic or not really standardised approach
> 
> Just using Liberty Pro 3 this site is from Korea and they have measurements, comparisons but very structured and you can find basically most TW on the site: Deviant, B&O, MD,etc
> 
> Turn your captions on and you can follow pretty easily



Decided to give this EQ setting a whirl, like it but made some very minor changes and, I know this is odd, but I overlaid some EQ adjustments using the Kaiser Audio app 30-band option and wow. The L3Ps will be staying. Listening to a favorite album, Orleans eponymous album from the early 70s, and like hearing it for the first time.


----------



## Thesonofkrypton

Excited to see the reviews for the JVC woodie TWS.  Loved the wired FW01.


----------



## webvan (Oct 22, 2021)

FYLegend said:


> Here's my EQ settings so far for TaoTronics SoundLiberty 94 (with ANC on) with the AirReps156X Android App. Really have to bring the mid-bass and lower mids way down to get rid of all that bleed. I would like to have brought up the upper treble a bit more, but there seems to be some hard limiter which prevents clipping but leaves a "huffing" artifact (same thing happens with Wavelet's preset),  so your best bet is to turn the volume down rather than up.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Have you experimented more with this app ? This app makes the TaoTronics 94 pretty attractive but I can't find them anywhere, do they exist under another name maybe ? The SoundPeats T2 look pretty similar but they're not compatible with the app based on your findings.


----------



## webvan

adnhussn said:


> This is fantastic, thanks for sharing. I’m enjoying the L3P much more now with the suggested EQ in the video (pause at 9:40 or see the attached screenshot).


Yep that looks like a great site, very analytical !
I'll use their setting and see if I can get to like the L3Ps a bit more...so far I'm still getting that "harshness" but admittedly a bit less of a gap between the sub bass and the rest.


----------



## Juturna (Oct 22, 2021)

I just went back to my Sennheiser MTW2's after just using the Gemini's for 2+ weeks or so, and while the Devialet is just so much better when it comes to bass, i gotta say the rest just sounds so much better on the Senns. It sounds a whole lot more natural and I just feel like it sounds like it's higher-res, like if the Devialets were playing 128 KBPS and the MTW2's are in 320 kbps haha. the only comparison I could make that makes sense to me.

Plus the MTW2's are like clouds in my ears while the Gemini's hurt like a mother...flipper. I think that's in part due to the silicone eartips that come included with the gemini's, they're not comfortable in my ears, the largest size is a bit too small but still chafes the insides of my ears.
I switched eartips between the ones I had on my Sennheisers and the ones I had on my Gemini's and it made them A LOT more comfortable, however they sound worse than with the stock tips.

If they weren't a gift i'd probably try to sell them, but they are however the better all-rounder out of the two overall because the call quality is better than on the MTW2's and the ANC is far superior.


----------



## CocaCola15

All I can say is keep trying with EQ and the L3P. I got to a point where they sound like TWs phones punching way above their weight. Should it take this much finagling? Nope. But feels like I managed to get the best out of them, to suit my tastes, of course. Any shrillness is gone. I happen to be sitting outside not far ftom jackhammering and I can hear the noise, but barely. Sweet! Test passed.


----------



## scubaphish

webvan said:


> Yep that looks like a great site, very analytical !
> I'll use their setting and see if I can get to like the L3Ps a bit more...so far I'm still getting that "harshness" but admittedly a bit less of a gap between the sub bass and the rest.


I tried his Gemini settings, but not sold on them yet. Maybe that’s expected as I don’t find the flat bass or treble settings as overpowering, as he stated. That said, I am following his curve more, albeit with slightly different db levels and trying that out. Thanks to all for sharing


----------



## Tommy C

CocaCola15 said:


> All I can say is keep trying with EQ and the L3P. I got to a point where they sound like TWs phones punching way above their weight. Should it take this much finagling? Nope. But feels like I managed to get the best out of them, to suit my tastes, of course. Any shrillness is gone. I happen to be sitting outside not far ftom jackhammering and I can hear the noise, but barely. Sweet! Test passed.


I believe the L2P+ that I had and the L3P are both capable hardware wise and while the app is feature-rich there is something about the tuning that isn't quite right. 
With the L2P+ I was able to make them sound excellent but not surpassing other good TWS that I have here so they were just not special enough at the and of the day IMO.


----------



## helmutcheese (Oct 22, 2021)

True, the original L2P sounded pretty good though a bit more natural than the 1More's I had at same time that were no doubt more Dynamically shaping the sound so they probably got me set/used to that sound but after a week or so I adjusted back, the L3P to me do not do anything well be it sound or ANC or even  the AMB is one of the worse I have heard.


----------



## xSDMx (Oct 22, 2021)

Maybe an unpopular opinion, but having to spend this much time tweaking the EQ for the L3P seems like a red flag. I prefer buying an IEM tuned close enough to my sound signature preferences.


----------



## jsmiller58 (Oct 22, 2021)

xSDMx said:


> Maybe an unpopular opinion, but having to spend this much time tweaking the EQ for the L3P seems like a red flag. I prefer buying an IEM tuned closed enough to my sound signature preferences.


***Just my opinion…***

So many postings about the LP3…. It either sounds great out of the box, or it sounds great with some limited effort to EQ, or it sounds great but with enormous effort, or it sounds awful no matter what one does.  Actually, no one should be surprised…

I think that it is an _individual preference thing_.  Any IEM is going to be close to any individual’s signature preference, somewhat off, or very far off…. Take 100 people and they will each describe the baseline sound differently, that is _there will be a distribution of opinions_.  Depending on the IEM sound signature out of the box, the distribution may skew towards very generally positive or generally negative.  Obviously not everyone wants to or will be able to EQ, but with EQ some of the sound issues can be addressed if people are willing to do it.  The effort to put into it will depend on how far that individual IEM is from the specific listener‘s preference…. On any IEM some listener’s may just want a marginal change - maybe a tad more bass, a bit more treble, a smidge more mids.  For the same IEM but to other listeners it may require a wholesale reshaping of the sound signature…. All listeners should thus be careful about extrapolating their personal experience to what others might experience.

For me, I typically look at FR graphs to see if the tonality is going to be close to my preference.  I can then EQ from there if I think I am going to be happy….

Not a perfect analogy, but think about it like going out to dinner…. You might order seafood prepared a certain way and then further customize it with seasonings and sauces…. However, if you don’t like seafood then no amount of preparation and seasoning is likely to make you happy.  *But, it does not mean others won’t like seafood!*


----------



## Ceeluh7

xSDMx said:


> Maybe an unpopular opinion, but having to spend this much time tweaking the EQ for the L3P seems like a red flag. I prefer buying an IEM tuned close enough to my sound signature preferences.


Agreed... If you saw how up and down my final eq is just to get these things to sound respectable. I do not have even a slight understanding how these ever left the manufacturing sites tuned the way they are... Almost like battery makers are trying to make tws earphones... Lol... Idk. They do have Grammy winners helping em out.


----------



## helmutcheese

What was it again > "Tuned and recommended by 20 Grammy award winners"!

 Have you ever heard the expression "Too many cooks spoil the broth?


----------



## Tommy C

Ceeluh7 said:


> Agreed... If you saw how up and down my final eq is just to get these things to sound respectable. I do not have even a slight understanding how these ever left the manufacturing sites tuned the way they are... Almost like battery makers are trying to make tws earphones... Lol... Idk. They do have Grammy winners helping em out.



The default setting and the Soundcore recommended eq on the L2P+ was so astonishingly bad I couldn't believe it and thought I got a bad set.
It was muddy, boomy and just utterly trash and although they are capable with the drivers to produce good sound there is just something about the Soundcore and i's tuning that is unclear to me.


----------



## Ceeluh7

Tommy C said:


> The default setting and the Soundcore recommended eq on the L2P+ was so astonishingly bad I couldn't believe it and thought I got a bad set.
> It was muddy, boomy and just utterly trash and although they are capable with the drivers to produce good sound there is just something about the Soundcore and i's tuning that is unclear to me.


Exactly, I don't get it man. My eq looks like a roller coaster. This is one of the worst tuned sets I've ever had... True. I've been collecting iems and tws for many years and compared to all the others I'd say this is one of the worst. You are very right though... This is a tws which is very capable of sounding pretty damn good. I almost wish Soundcore would market these as tws which we have to tweak to make it "our" sound.


----------



## Ceeluh7

helmutcheese said:


> What was it again > "Tuned and recommended by 20 Grammy award winners"!
> 
> Have you ever heard the expression "Too many cooks spoil the broth?


Most Def!! They confused themselves... Lol


----------



## adnhussn

CocaCola15 said:


> All I can say is keep trying with EQ and the L3P. I got to a point where they sound like TWs phones punching way above their weight. Should it take this much finagling? Nope. But feels like I managed to get the best out of them, to suit my tastes, of course. Any shrillness is gone. I happen to be sitting outside not far ftom jackhammering and I can hear the noise, but barely. Sweet! Test passed.


At the same point here. Managed to get them to sound pretty similar to my Nuarl N10 Plus, which are tuned well out of the box. Didn’t necessarily have any issues with my N10 (they have multipoint, decent call quality, ANC) but the L3P are significantly louder and seem to do everything, except for sound, a little better.


----------



## darveniza

Has anyone found any retailer selling the new Technics EAH AZ60. Amazon had them for an instance as pre order and have since disappeared . You go to the Technics USA pace and they just tell you sorry

Found the same thing happening with the Marshall MOTIF ANC TWC, their page stated for sale X date, the date came and nothing and since then has been no update

Rather puzzling


----------



## Ceeluh7

adnhussn said:


> At the same point here. Managed to get them to sound pretty similar to my Nuarl N10 Plus, which are tuned well out of the box. Didn’t necessarily have any issues with my N10 (they have multipoint, decent call quality, ANC) but the L3P are significantly louder and seem to do everything, except for sound, a little better.


LP3 are louder?! My LP3 aren't very loud imo. Wow Nuarl N10 Plus must be low volume.


----------



## Ceeluh7

darveniza said:


> Has anyone found any retailer selling the new Technics EAH AZ60. Amazon had them for an instance as pre order and have since disappeared . You go to the Technics USA pace and they just tell you sorry
> 
> Found the same thing happening with the Marshall MOTIF ANC TWC, their page stated for sale X date, the date came and nothing and since then has been no update
> 
> Rather puzzling


Been looking man, haven't found anything. I wait for Amazon just for the seemless return policy and mostly quick shipping. I was hoping by now they'd be on Prime.


----------



## adnhussn

Ceeluh7 said:


> LP3 are louder?! My LP3 aren't very loud imo. Wow Nuarl N10 Plus must be low volume.


Yep, even after setting the volume limit to “High” on the Nuarl app, I pretty much have to turn the volume up to 80% on my phone but only 50% or so on the L3P.


----------



## Ceeluh7

adnhussn said:


> Yep, even after setting the volume limit to “High” on the Nuarl app, I pretty much have to turn the volume up to 80% on my phone but only 50% or so on the L3P.


I wonder if Nuarl N6 pro 2 is similar?


----------



## jant71

helmutcheese said:


> What was it again > "Tuned and recommended by 20 Grammy award winners"!
> 
> Have you ever heard the expression "Too many cooks spoil the broth?


What does Grammy awards mean in this day and age. Friends, popularity, knowing the right people. Not a direct link to great tuning. Maybe classically trained musicians would be better. 


Ceeluh7 said:


> I wonder if Nuarl N6 pro 2 is similar?


I am selling mine and haven't been using them but I just checked. Not that is means anything since I know nothing of the L3P. They have good volume to me. Not the loudest I have heard but both seems driven well and good and tight on the sound and seems more than loud enough. Could be different than the N10 and wasn't mentioned about the ANC which could affect the volume if active. Also haven't read in any other impressions that the Pro 2 lack volume. At least I don't remember that.


----------



## erockg

darveniza said:


> Has anyone found any retailer selling the new Technics EAH AZ60. Amazon had them for an instance as pre order and have since disappeared . You go to the Technics USA pace and they just tell you sorry
> 
> Found the same thing happening with the Marshall MOTIF ANC TWC, their page stated for sale X date, the date came and nothing and since then has been no update
> 
> Rather puzzling


Guessing it was just a placeholder on Amazon.  They do this sometimes and it's annoying -- make it seem like they're going to be in stock then ghost us.  I'm guessing stock is still making it to the vendors.  Best Buy does this too.  Sigh...


----------



## nijfi

xSDMx said:


> Maybe an unpopular opinion, but having to spend this much time tweaking the EQ for the L3P seems like a red flag. I prefer buying an IEM tuned close enough to my sound signature preferences.


I'm trying an alternative to going straight into tweaking EQ on the L3P. I'm burning them in with the HearID it gave me, just to give them a chance.

But you could be right. Basically, if they have a signature, to me, they are bright and on the thin side, yet with a strangely pleasing bottom end. That metallic sound and tizziness on the treble is definitely there on quite a few recordings, especially reggae, but on other recordings that can actually just translate into bringing out a nice amount of detail. I listen to a fair bit of reggae and the high hats and snare are deliberately dry and high pitched, and so on the LP3s this can almost be painful. Overall, this LP3 sound I'm getting is not a sound I'd ever choose out of the box. It is anything but warm.

My trouble is, these are my first set of true wireless, and I was almost prepared for second best, sound wise. I'm not going to pay silly money on short lived TWS for sound quality when I already have what I want elsewhere. My wired options both sounded great to my ears out the box. For instance, I deliberately chose the warm and musical NFAudio NA2 over the NM2 or NM2+, which were said to be more 'analytical'. I've heard the NM2+ and they are indeed just as described. Great for mastering, not so good for me though to get the best out of enjoying my music collection.

Anyway, I'm rambling. Back on topic. I'll give the LP3 much more burn time (currently on about 20 hours) on my HearID, see where I am in a couple of weeks time, and only then start playing with EQ. My overall judgement can wait I think. For wireless, I'm still pretty impressed with them and feel they should have potential yet.


----------



## Tommy C (Oct 22, 2021)

Just got the 1More Comfobuds Pro (Blue edition that has the 20+ eq pre-sets).
I'm surprised and impressed by the sq and ANC.
Stem form factor is an eyesore obviously but wow they're comfortable and suitable for side-napping. 
Got them from Amazon for $55 - it's a heck of a bargain. They sound awesome for their MSRP. Easy.

Will listen to them for a good few hours and will share some more thoughts.


----------



## Ceeluh7

jant71 said:


> What does Grammy awards mean in this day and age. Friends, popularity, knowing the right people. Not a direct link to great tuning. Maybe classically trained musicians would be better.
> 
> I am selling mine and haven't been using them but I just checked. Not that is means anything since I know nothing of the L3P. They have good volume to me. Not the loudest I have heard but both seems driven well and good and tight on the sound and seems more than loud enough. Could be different than the N10 and wasn't mentioned about the ANC which could affect the volume if active. Also haven't read in any other impressions that the Pro 2 lack volume. At least I don't remember that.


Neither have I read anything like that... Thanks man


----------



## clerkpalmer (Oct 22, 2021)

FoKus Pro just arrived.  I think these are winners.  I've owned the Falcon and Falcon PRO and HATED the fit.  They came with super long nozzles and I'm not a fan of deep IEMs.  I sold them off based on fit.  I was never a huge fan of the sound either.  They were very clinical, no warmth and not very musical.  I realize others love them for their neutrality.  My ears aren't good enough to give an audiophile review of SQ but the best I can say about them was they were boring.

The FoKus seems to address my two shortcomings:  1. Fit and 2. musicality.  As for fit these are leaps and bounds better.  They have a semi custom look and the blue plates are gorgeous.  But the nozzle is shorter and they fit in with a medium insertion and seem to fit well out of the box with the included M tips.  Sound is excellent.  Connected via AptxHD to my Pixel and Aptx to my Fold.  These are indeed musical on the default EQ setting.  Like night and day versus the Falcon.  I love them  - tonality is spot on.  Plenty of detail and a bit of warmth but not too much.  I'd venture to call them on the fun side of neutral. 

The app is solid.  The EQ has 10 bands and allows you to adjust the gain individually by range which is a nice touch.  I ran the custom EQ test a couple of time and all it did was bump the gain by 2db accross the range.  Not really helpful but I'm enjoying them on the flat setting.  Gonna do some burn in and report back after more listening.


----------



## jant71

Ceeluh7 said:


> Neither have I read anything like that... Thanks man


Actually the N10 plus may be turned down a bit actually. Not that I know for sure but 7 hours max battery(no ANC and SBC/AAC) they can be limited vs. the N6 Pro 2 which is 10 hours max cause louder volumes will lower the battery life. 5 hours with ANC on they may have limited the top volume to conserve. Just a theory though.




clerkpalmer said:


> FoKus Pro just arrived.  I think these are winners.  I've owned the Falcon and Falcon PRO and HATED the fit.  They came with super long nozzles and I'm not a fan of deep IEMs.  I sold them off based on fit.  I was never a huge fan of the sound either.  They were very clinical, no warmth and not very musical.  I realize others love them for their neutrality.  My ears aren't good enough to give an audiophile review of SQ but the best I can say about them was they were boring.
> 
> The FoKus seems to address my two shortcomings:  1. Fit and 2. musicality.  As for fit these are leaps and bounds better.  They have a semi custom look and the blue plates are gorgeous.  But the nozzle is shorter and they fit in with a medium insertion and seem to fit well out of the box with the included M tips.  Sound is excellent.  Connected via AptxHD to my Pixel and Aptx to my Fold.  These are indeed musical on the default EQ setting.  Like night and day versus the Falcon.  I love them  - very musical.  Plenty of detail and a bit of warmth but not too much.  I'd venture to call them on the fun side of neutral.
> 
> The app is solid.  The EQ has 10 bands and allows you to adjust the gain individually by range which is a nice touch.  I ran the custom EQ test a couple of time and all it did was bump the gain by 2db accross the range.  Not really helpful but I'm enjoying them on the flat setting.  Gonna do some burn in and report back after more listening.


They look like they have worked on the shape a bit...


----------



## clerkpalmer

jant71 said:


> Actually the N10 plus may be turned down a bit actually. Not that I know for sure but 7 hours max battery(no ANC and SBC/AAC) they can be limited vs. the N6 Pro 2 which is 10 hours max cause louder volumes will lower the battery life. 5 hours with ANC on they may have limited the top volume to conserve. Just a theory though.
> 
> 
> 
> They look like they have worked on the shape a bit...


Yeah these are much improved.


----------



## VICosPhi

darveniza said:


> Has anyone found any retailer selling the new Technics EAH AZ60. Amazon had them for an instance as pre order and have since disappeared . You go to the Technics USA pace and they just tell you sorry
> 
> Found the same thing happening with the Marshall MOTIF ANC TWC, their page stated for sale X date, the date came and nothing and since then has been no update
> 
> Rather puzzling





erockg said:


> Guessing it was just a placeholder on Amazon.  They do this sometimes and it's annoying -- make it seem like they're going to be in stock then ghost us.  I'm guessing stock is still making it to the vendors.  Best Buy does this too.  Sigh...


For what it's worth I ordered the Technic AZ60 from Amazon US and the ETA just changed from Oct 28th to Dec 19th 

Also, Liberty Pro 3 metallic treble has become more bearable with ePro tips. Moved the EQ slider#3 and #4 to +3dB and vocal sound acceptable. Sennheiser MTW2 still sounds richer but LP3 are good backup buds, especially for phone calls due to their exceptional Mic quality.


----------



## jant71 (Oct 22, 2021)

Thesonofkrypton said:


> Excited to see the reviews for the JVC woodie TWS.  Loved the wired FW01.


Interesting fact as we might assume that this is what they did. Make an FW01 into TWS. Turns out....



The specs do say it is a wood dome carbon and not just the wood dome as in the FW01. 
https://www-phileweb-com.translate....auto&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en-US&_x_tr_pto=nui
(Some JVC propaganda but does peak the interest)


----------



## Ceeluh7

jant71 said:


> Actually the N10 plus may be turned down a bit actually. Not that I know for sure but 7 hours max battery(no ANC and SBC/AAC) they can be limited vs. the N6 Pro 2 which is 10 hours max cause louder volumes will lower the battery life. 5 hours with ANC on they may have limited the top volume to conserve. Just a theory though.
> 
> 
> 
> They look like they have worked on the shape a bit...


I think you may be correct about your theory, certainly is not the first time a company lowered volumes and output to conserve battery, so that they can advertise with more battery. I hate that. I don't listen too loud but I very much appreciate knowing that I can push a driver where I want to push it to. I have read some good things about n6 pro 2.


----------



## Ceeluh7

jant71 said:


> Interesting fact as we might assume that this is what they did. Make an FW01 into TWS. Turns out....
> 
> The specs do say it is a wood dome carbon and not just the wood dome as in the FW01.
> https://www-phileweb-com.translate....auto&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en-US&_x_tr_pto=nui
> (Some JVC propaganda but does peak the interest)


These flat out look tough... JVC is stepping up the game a bit.


----------



## clerkpalmer

@erockg, after your post, I pulled my Bose QC's out last week.  I had almost forgotten about them.  Man, they have supernatural ANC.  It's shocking.  These are terrific buds.  The fact that they don't go in your ears makes them superbly comfy.  Sound is fun and punchy in a Bose sort of way.  Just perfect for the gym.  At a new reduced price, they are a solid buy.


----------



## jant71 (Oct 22, 2021)

jant71 said:


> Since I have had the most JVC TWS I will speculate on it. They will probably follow the earlier ANC scheme
> 
> K2 will probably be 3 taps on the right like the controls on my JVC runners wireless which has the same scheme as well except minus the ANC cycle and the bass boost is three touches on the right bud.
> 
> ...



Ummm, nope. While the Play/Pause is indeed on the left and ambient on the right with one touch each. K2 will be 4 taps on the right and ANC 4 taps on the left. Unless that is wrong in the article. 3 taps seems more likely to me. if FF and RW is tap and hold, 3 taps would be open with 2 taps for the volume on R and L?

Edit: Okay, from the manual, 1 press left is Play/Pause L and is ambient on R.
L is 2 taps for Vol- and 3 taps for Vol+ and 4 for ANC while R is also 2 taps for vol- 3 for vol+ and 4 taps for K2

I do get it since they can be used independently now they repeat the controls for single side use and you get track control and volume for both sides. I am not a big single side user so I would rather have the volume up on R and down on left and 3 taps for ANC and K2.


----------



## Tommy C

jant71 said:


> Ummm, nope. While the Play/Pause is indeed on the left and ambient on the right with one touch each. K2 will be 4 taps on the right and ANC 4 taps on the left. Unless that is wrong in the article. 3 taps seems more likely to me. if FF and RW is tap and hold, 3 taps would be open with 2 taps for the volume on R and L.



As a consumer, I'll have a heck of a time memorizing all those commands, especially if I'm rotating with other TWS with touch control.
Skipping the app on a flagship TWS is such a bad choice and lack of understanding where this market is heading.


----------



## clerkpalmer

More on the Fokus. I'm gonna have to get my EQs back to compare but these may be the best sounding tws I've heard. The subbass extension is unreal for an iem. Never heard anything like it. You can feel your head shaking.  Feel like there's a giant Amp in there. These get seriously loud for those who like that.

 They are tuned wonderfully.  So natural sounding.  Percussion slams. Probably some shiny new toy syndrome but I am in love. If there is a gripe it's that the low end might be a bit flabby but not in a boomy way. Just a little loose - might tighten up with time. The BA drivers make sure it doesn't bleed however. These are seriously fun iems.


----------



## erockg

clerkpalmer said:


> More on the Fokus. I'm gonna have to get my EQs back to compare but these may be the best sounding tws I've heard. The subbass extension is unreal for an iem. Never heard anything like it. You can feel your head shaking.  Feel like there's a giant Amp in there. These get seriously loud for those who like that.
> 
> They are tuned wonderfully.  So natural sounding.  Percussion slams. Probably some shiny new toy syndrome but I am in love. If there is a gripe it's that the low end might be a bit flabby but not in a boomy way. Just a little loose - might tighten up with time. The BA drivers make sure it doesn't bleed however. These are seriously fun iems.


Sadly, they're out of stock right now!


----------



## clerkpalmer

erockg said:


> Sadly, they're out of stock right now!


Yeah, the EQ may be the better overall package given the tech on board.  But I need to hear them back to back to be sure. Noble did a nice job with these and extra points for a small audio company making tws a priority. They will get my business for that reason. These arent half baked garbage like we've seen from other "audiophile" companies. And the custom shells are fabulous.


----------



## jant71

erockg said:


> Sadly, they're out of stock right now!



Your wallet is safe. For now.


----------



## erockg

clerkpalmer said:


> Yeah, the EQ may be the better overall package given the tech on board.  But I need to hear them back to back to be sure. Noble did a nice job with these and extra points for a small audio company making tws a priority. They will get my business for that reason. These arent half baked garbage like we've seen from other "audiophile" companies.


Sadly, after the honeymoon was over I actually let EQs go.  My third pair started to have that popping sound again on some songs.  Got so frustrated I flipped them.  Snagged the Bose again.  Much better with the EQ they added.  Baffles my mind as to why they didn't have all the new features up front, but I guess better late than never.  Also, trying out the new Jabra Elite 7 Pros.  They're tiny!


----------



## jant71

clerkpalmer said:


> Yeah, the EQ may be the better overall package given the tech on board.  But I need to hear them back to back to be sure. Noble did a nice job with these and extra points for a small audio company making tws a priority. They will get my business for that reason. These arent half baked garbage like we've seen from other "audiophile" companies. And the custom shells are fabulous.



Well, to be honest, we should expect this from them. They would really suck if they were half baked on the fourth TWS they have made. Time to round into shape and have all the kinks out by No. 4.


----------



## erockg

jant71 said:


> Your wallet is safe. For now.


I can feel it burning a hole in my pocket.  Help!


----------



## Tommy C

erockg said:


> Sadly, after the honeymoon was over I actually let EQs go.  My third pair started to have that popping sound again on some songs.  Got so frustrated I flipped them.  Snagged the Bose again.  Much better with the EQ they added.  Baffles my mind as to why they didn't have all the new features up front, but I guess better late than never.  Also, trying out the new Jabra Elite 7 Pros.  They're tiny!



I was looking into the Bose QC buds but man those are huge.
They look comfy enough but just not sure how I feel about the form factor lol


----------



## darveniza

voicemaster said:


> Works great with 7hz Timeless too. And for the Timeless itself, it is absolutely awesome.


The 7HZ are one of my Go To wired earphones. Just amazing for the price point


----------



## clerkpalmer

jant71 said:


> Well, to be honest, we should expect this from them. They would really suck if they were half baked on the fourth TWS they have made. Time to round into shape and have all the kinks out by No. 4.


In fairness the Falcon and Falcon Pro were pretty well received. The folks in noble thread like them. Yes, we should expect it we don't always get what we expect. Look at hifiman for example. Half baked.


----------



## clerkpalmer

Tommy C said:


> I was looking into the Bose QC buds but man those are huge.
> They look comfy enough but just not sure how I feel about the form factor lol


It doesn't bother me. Bose is kinda ubiquitous so you can get away with it. They are decently sleek despite the size. The EQ and now you can control the ANC they are winners. Not many tws are lookers.


----------



## erockg

Tommy C said:


> I was looking into the Bose QC buds but man those are huge.
> They look comfy enough but just not sure how I feel about the form factor lol


Bose had them on sale for $199 and then I got $30 more off via ID.me.  They're very comfortable and light.  I agree, they're big, but for home use, calls, etc. they're really working well.  ANC is top notch.


----------



## Tommy C (Nov 10, 2021)

Tommy C said:


> Just got the 1More Comfobuds Pro (Blue edition that has the 20+ eq pre-sets).
> I'm surprised and impressed by the sq and ANC.
> Stem form factor is an eyesore obviously but wow they're comfortable and suitable for side-napping.
> Got them from Amazon for $55 - it's a heck of a bargain. They sound awesome for their MSRP. Easy.
> ...



Ok, these are really good!

The good:
- Tuned right and despite not having a full eq all the 20+ pre-sets are super responsive and provide different flavors to the music so I really don't miss a full eq.
- Clear sound. No strange bright highs or recessed mids. They just fit my taste very well.
- Sounstage is wide. Not as wide as the Sennheiser CX 400BT but it is not narrow or cramped by any means.
- Imagining is very nice and the sound is very balanced but musical at the same time. They have some serious bass if you choose to go that route.
- They _don't _feel like a half-baked product. The build quality is excellent. Touch controls are super responsive and precise. The app is flawless.
- ANC and Pass-through are awesome. ANC is very effective for city noises coming from outside and doesn't cause pressure in the ears when turned on. Kitchen noises can be tamed quite a bit but not muted completely.
- Auto Play/ Pause is flawless.
- Very comfortable fit. They sit shallow. The stock tips work for me but they are oval and proprietary but I can wear them for hours.
- Portable case size.
- Call quality hasn't been tested yet but they should be very good based on the stem design and 6 mics.


The not so good:
- Music bleeds a bit so people may hear it if you're blasting your ears.
- The touch control are in the middle of the stem; so need to get used to it (more of a me problem really).
- Case lid feels a bit flimsy.
- If you're planning to purchase keep in mind that only  the Blue edition comes with the EQ pre-sets. I don't mind the color but I would rather have them in black.

The bad:
- The stem design is not for everyone. I don't love it but honestly it's not as bad as I thought based on photos online as they are pretty compact.
- The touch control commands are customizable but they are limited since there is no single tap so I needed to choose between Vol up/down or Skip track.
- Confusing marketing. Black and White versions don't have the EQ but only the Aurora Blue edition does so if you don't know that, you're missing out.

All in all, they are winners and I'm surprised there is very little info about them around here.
I feel like the stem design was their downfall but if you can live with that they are super comfortable.

The sound is balanced and non-offensive and very versatile thanks to the pre-sets eq  and you can spend all day with them as there is also zero ear fatigue due to the design.
* Lows are powerful but never bleed to the mids.
* Mids are nice clear and and full bodied.
* Highs are sparkly but never too bright and piercing.

Sound quality wise I'll put them very very close to the Sennheiser CX 400BT and more dynamic than the Sennheiser which some would prefer, with better headroom for volume.  They are better than the CA MT as they are clearer without the bloated bass and nice dynamic, customizable sound if you choose to.

FWIW they are tuned by Luca Bignardi but unlike Soundcore who had 20 Grammy winners tuning their new TWS seems like this 4-time Grammy award winner dude knows a thing or two about how music should sound.

I think they are my new favorites as a total package for sound, ANC and battery life despite the stem style.


----------



## Ceeluh7

Tommy C said:


> Ok, these are really good!
> 
> The good:
> - Tuned right and despite not having a full eq all the 20+ pre-sets are super responsive and provide different flavors to the music so I really don't miss a full eq.
> ...


Nice review man. 1more has been doing tws for quite awhile and I'm glad to see they are still getting better. I too have never been a fan of the stem but I have looked past it for a few sets... I may try these out


----------



## Tommy C

Ceeluh7 said:


> Nice review man. 1more has been doing tws for quite awhile and I'm glad to see they are still getting better. I too have never been a fan of the stem but I have looked past it for a few sets... I may try these out


Thanks man! I got them for $55 on Amazon Canada with the coupon. Somehow they are more expensive on Amazon US,
For the price they do everything right. For their regular price there is very little to complain about. 
The execution on these in terms of reliability of connection, touch control and the app is excellent plus the eq options and the good sound make the whole experience very positive.


----------



## quick1 (Oct 23, 2021)

dweaver said:


> dweaver said:
> 
> 
> > Have to say Thank you to Tommy C, he mentioned tip rolling with the CX400BTwhich lead me to put the Sennheiser tips on the Galaxy Bud Pro and that tip does wonders for the IEM. Way better isolation! Will keep rolling tips on the 400BT and hope I find something I like because I want to keep these tips on the GBuds Pro.


​Azla SednaEarfit Crystal are now made for the Galaxy Buds Pro, might be worth a shot.
https://www.amazon.com/AZLA-SednaEarfit-Crystal-Buds-Pairs/dp/B097G272CG/ref=sr_1_4?crid=39O86G9GEE4H&dchild=1&keywords=azla+buds+pro&qid=1634969733&sprefix=azla+buds+pro,aps,141&sr=8-4

If you look at their sizing chart the size MS are very close to the Large tips that came stock. I had to immediately go to the factory large tips to get a consistent seal. These Bud Pro's are the first wireless earbuds I've tried and rolling tips for me hasn't done much to these except degrade the sound. Their low/ shallow tip attachment point, oval shape, and seemingly large opening kind'a prohibits a lot of tips from being used successfully.  The tip's hole is either too small and kills the highs and imaging or, when I get one that's large enough to add just a small bass improvement, (blue foam replacement tips for TIN T2) the damn tip remains in my ear when I remove the buds. I think maybe the distance from the tip attachment point to the ear opening is having some say in the sound signature. Most of the tips I have are from wired IEM's and seem to have a greater distance to the opening.
If you look at that distance on the supplied Samsung tips you'll see the medium and large tips seem to have the same distance, however the small is much shorter. In my mind people who use those supplied small tips are likely to get a shoutier more tipped up treble performance.

I tried some Sedna EarFit Short Lights I have but they seem to hurt bass and imaging a bit and the material still bothers my ears. I just ordered the Sedna Crystal's I mentioned above so I'll see how that works out. I think the distance from the tip attachment point to the opening is shorter than the regular lights and they are definitely made of a different material so I'll see how that plays out.  I also tried the CharJenPro Memory Foam tips available on Amazon but honestly didn't notice any real bass improvement and it seemed to kill some of the highs. They do have a ear wax screen in them that I'm tempted to cut out but with no improvement in bass I'm not sure it's worth the effort.

Comply has some listed on their site that are built specifically for the Bud Pro's but they aren't available yet.
https://www.complyfoam.com/products/truegrip-for-samsung-galaxy-buds-pro?variant=41444983177403

If the Sedna Crystal's don't work I'm not sure where to turn.

The Fiil or the CX400BT factory tips sound worth a shot but I don't own either pair so the chances of that are little to none.

​


----------



## Devodonaldson

quick1 said:


> ​Azla SednaEarfit Crystal are now made for the Galaxy Buds Pro, might be worth a shot.
> https://www.amazon.com/AZLA-SednaEarfit-Crystal-Buds-Pairs/dp/B097G272CG/ref=sr_1_4?crid=39O86G9GEE4H&dchild=1&keywords=azla+buds+pro&qid=1634969733&sprefix=azla+buds+pro,aps,141&sr=8-4
> 
> If you look at their sizing chart the size MS are very close to the Large tips that came stock. I had to immediately go to the factory large tips to get a consistent seal. These Bud Pro's are the first wireless earbuds I've tried and rolling tips for me hasn't done much to these except degrade the sound. Their low/ shallow tip attachment point, oval shape, and seemingly large opening kind'a prohibits a lot of tips from being used successfully.  The tip's hole is either too small and kills the highs and imaging or, when I get one that's large enough to add just a small bass improvement, (blue foam replacement tips for TIN T2) the damn tip remains in my ear when I remove the buds. I think maybe the distance from the tip attachment point to the ear opening is having some say in the sound signature. Most of the tips I have are from wired IEM's and seem to have a greater distance to the opening.
> ...


I've been using the   Crystal for my Pro's for about a month. I like them. Pro is my phone gaming and video/podcast tws, so I rarely if ever do music with them, but I think they are good tips. Also use th for workouts,  without issue


----------



## quick1 (Oct 23, 2021)

I just dug out more of the tips I have around for corded IEMS. I stuck those TIN T2 foams back on there and still think they help the bass but they cut the highs down and kill some imaging. I swapped the T2 replacements for RIYO foams I got from Amazon. They have a larger opening for nozzles 5-7mm. There it is, the isolation I wanted with bass reinforcement. From what I hear the top end and imaging are still there, very likely the inside diameter having an effect. They're 100% more likely to come off in my ear and I can't close the charging case because they are longer by a good margin. I'm definitely not against cutting them down little by little to fit inside the case. I really need to find those Symbio foams I have, they're very comfortable. I think they have a smaller inside diameter than the RIYO's though.


----------



## dweaver (Oct 23, 2021)

quick1 said:


> ​Azla SednaEarfit Crystal are now made for the Galaxy Buds Pro, might be worth a shot.
> https://www.amazon.com/AZLA-SednaEarfit-Crystal-Buds-Pairs/dp/B097G272CG/ref=sr_1_4?crid=39O86G9GEE4H&dchild=1&keywords=azla+buds+pro&qid=1634969733&sprefix=azla+buds+pro,aps,141&sr=8-4
> 
> If you look at their sizing chart the size MS are very close to the Large tips that came stock. I had to immediately go to the factory large tips to get a consistent seal. These Bud Pro's are the first wireless earbuds I've tried and rolling tips for me hasn't done much to these except degrade the sound. Their low/ shallow tip attachment point, oval shape, and seemingly large opening kind'a prohibits a lot of tips from being used successfully.  The tip's hole is either too small and kills the highs and imaging or, when I get one that's large enough to add just a small bass improvement, (blue foam replacement tips for TIN T2) the damn tip remains in my ear when I remove the buds. I think maybe the distance from the tip attachment point to the ear opening is having some say in the sound signature. Most of the tips I have are from wired IEM's and seem to have a greater distance to the opening.
> ...


You can buy the Sennheiser tips if you want to try them. I might try these as well.


----------



## clerkpalmer

Past 10 business days on my EQ RMA. Suffice to say, I'm not pleased. Support was nice enough but no explanation as to why. So I've been without them for 2 weeks. Not a very reliable system.


----------



## Tommy C

clerkpalmer said:


> Past 10 business days on my EQ RMA. Suffice to say, I'm not pleased. Support was nice enough but no explanation as to why. So I've been without them for 2 weeks. Not a very reliable system.



For a company such as B&O they should have just sent you a new pair and close the ticket.
However, they may found some hardware issues with them and waiting on a new batch to be delivered.
In any event they should keep you in the loop.


----------



## Frisker76

webreaper said:


> Hi all,
> 
> Haven't posted much as I've been pretty happy with the Senn IE80s over the last couple of years. But I'm getting a bit fed up with having to replace the cable every 8-12 months. The IE80s are fantastic sound-wise, and I have custom-moulded sleeves which give a wonderful fit and great sound isolation. I was originally looking for a wireless lanyard like the Westone BT cable 78548, but unfortunately the IE80s use a custom connector, and I can't find an equivalent wireless converter that'll fit the Senns (there's some $5 ones on Alibaba, but I've no confidence that they'll have decent SQ, battery life or reliability).
> 
> ...


Not a big supported of wireless buds


----------



## jant71 (Oct 23, 2021)

Gamesky does V-Moda...

 Nice to hear the Lite and Pro are the same sound and drivers which it seemed anyhow but nice to hear somebody say it.  Case is effing large while the buds are quite small.  Wonder if the cheaper one has a smaller case since it doesn't need the room for the earhooks and such. Small and seems to sound good but has those first effort problems.


----------



## Tommy C

Frisker76 said:


> Not a big supported of wireless buds



Did you really respond to a post from 2017 just to tell us you're not a fan of TWS?


----------



## Frisker76

Tommy C said:


> Did you really respond to a post from 2017 just to tell us you're not a fan of TWS?


I think my message has been stuck in the outbox for 4 years!


----------



## jant71

Tommy C said:


> Did you really respond to a post from 2017 just to tell us you're not a fan of TWS?


Not as bad as some bumping necro-threads replying to people who haven't made a post for 10 years like they are going to respond.  Gotta check those dates. These people have not waited 8 years for an answer to their earphone question. They found the answer or moved on or died of old age by now


----------



## clerkpalmer

Tommy C said:


> For a company such as B&O they should have just sent you a new pair and close the ticket.
> However, they may found some hardware issues with them and waiting on a new batch to be delivered.
> In any event they should keep you in the loop.


Right. Communication would be nice. That's all.


----------



## quick1 (Oct 23, 2021)

dweaver said:


> You can buy the Sennheiser tips if you want to try them. I might try these as well.


I tried looking for the Sennheiser tip sizes but failed. Do you know the outer sizes on them? I don't know whether to order Med or Large. 
Also do you know the inner diameter where it is open to the ear? I actually have the Sport replacement tips for the CX400BT form Comply on the way. From what I read the Sport line usually provide a little more isolation and bass.


----------



## jant71 (Oct 23, 2021)

What...




What activity??? Phileweb, Posting here. Where do they get this. That effing Google probably. Creepy info sharing stalkers. 

Anyway, that is $317 and it usually drops even more before release. these could be $300 street price. The previous Victor and JVC AE5t were supposed to be $150 but were  around $129 on release. Makes sense to me. Has to be less than that Drop price which is $350.

Not too bad. Except for the less than ideal control scheme. Battery life from the manual...



Takes a hit with the ANC.


----------



## dj24

erockg said:


> Sadly, after the honeymoon was over I actually let EQs go.  My third pair started to have that popping sound again on some songs.  Got so frustrated I flipped them.  Snagged the Bose again.  Much better with the EQ they added.  Baffles my mind as to why they didn't have all the new features up front, but I guess better late than never.  Also, trying out the new Jabra Elite 7 Pros.  They're tiny!


How's the Elite 7 pro's sound and call quality?


----------



## Tommy C

jant71 said:


> What...
> 
> What activity??? Phileweb, Posting here. Where do they get this. That effing Google probably. Creepy info sharing stalkers.
> 
> ...



Google is creepy. Microsoft too to some degree sadly. 
I don’t use google for searches anymore and my go-to search engine is DuckDuckGo and my favourite browser is Vivaldi which is big on privacy and it’s an awesome browser with great features on top of that.


----------



## dweaver

quick1 said:


> I tried looking for the Sennheiser tip sizes but failed. Do you know the outer sizes on them? I don't know whether to order Med or Large.
> Also do you know the inner diameter where it is open to the ear? I actually have the Sport replacement tips for the CX400BT form Comply on the way. From what I read the Sport line usually provide a little more isolation and bass.


The inner diameter is 5mm and the outer diameter of large is 12?? You be the judge.


----------



## scubaphish (Oct 24, 2021)

jant71 said:


> What...
> 
> What activity??? Phileweb, Posting here. Where do they get this. That effing Google probably. Creepy info sharing stalkers.
> 
> ...


Sorry for stupid question, but what’s “k2 function”?  Is that transparency?

Edit: I can use DuckDuckGo…seems like a form of processing/upscaling of compressed files. 

https://www.jvckenwood.com/en/technology/k2.html


----------



## Juturna

I would love to see y’all with the Devialet Geminis custom EQ’s! Still trying to make the most of these and I’m having a hard time finding an EQ that I like without compromising at least one part of the frequency range too much.


----------



## scubaphish

Juturna said:


> I would love to see y’all with the Devialet Geminis custom EQ’s! Still trying to make the most of these and I’m having a hard time finding an EQ that I like without compromising at least one part of the frequency range too much.


Finding myself using flat more times than not these days. What do you feel is missing on flat?


----------



## jant71 (Oct 24, 2021)

scubaphish said:


> Sorry for stupid question, but what’s “k2 function”?  Is that transparency?
> 
> Edit: I can use DuckDuckGo…seems like a form of processing/upscaling of compressed files.
> 
> https://www.jvckenwood.com/en/technology/k2.html


Yep same sort of compression restoring like Sony DSEE. Can't be activated with adaptive but can with SBC, AAC, and AptX. Oddly though it says you can't activate it if something is playing. Has to be paused.


Also kinda joking a bit. I bought the first Victor TWS, the JVC HA-AE5T TWS, and the JVC HA-A8T TWS from them. So that is really more the activity they mean. So, they are certainly gonna send me the you might be interested in this ad mail for the FW1000T.


----------



## Juturna (Oct 24, 2021)

scubaphish said:


> Finding myself using flat more times than not these days. What do you feel is missing on flat?


Honestly a little bit of everything, but mostly clarity in all the frequencies, it's just muddy as all hell to me on flat.

To me what I notice on my own EQ Preset I try to get more clarity especially in the mids because I feel like the vocals (especially male vocals) end up falling way behind the rest on flat, but it's also overall sounds kinda blurred together to me on flat, and the bass also lacks depth and definition to me, the treble also lacks sparkle, but as soon as I try to lift it a bit my ears die from the sibilance.

I can sort of EQ it a bit towards my preference but it's still a long way from what I what I prefer.
I have this preference that seems to be hard to find in TWS earbuds, I like neutral-sounding earbuds with good clarity but also extra bass punch when the song requires it but otherwise doesn't prioritize any certain frequencies that much above others. (I honestly don't know if this is what I actually prefer though, I honestly can't say if what I enjoy is V-Shaped or Neutral, U-shaped or Harman Target, all that stuff. I like when stuff sounds "natural" but still has an ounce of extra sparkle and bass if the song i'm playing requires it, I guess)

What I want would kinda be the mids and clarity from the Sennheiser MTW2, with the bass response from the Gemini's (maybe a bit faster with a bit more BITE to it), and the treble from... I don't know exactly, I like sparkle but it's an extremely thin line between getting it to sound beautiful and getting it to feel like somebody is shoving an icepick into your ear from vocals and cymbals with that sibilance.


----------



## tma6

Connection issues, calling issues, weird ANC issues.. I think the liberty 3 pros are going back to Amazon. Also the sound quality is solid but I don’t love how it does highs.


----------



## webvan

Just got the Earfun Pro and I have a strange problem with the ANC (and Transparent mode too actually). I have this weird "popping" sound in the left ear, some kind of "driver flex", except that I'm not moving it. Anyone else notice that ? My FIIL T1 have that "driver flex" and since they seem to be of a rather similar design. Anyone else notice that ?


----------



## scubaphish (Oct 24, 2021)

Juturna said:


> Honestly a little bit of everything, but mostly clarity in all the frequencies, it's just muddy as all hell to me on flat.
> 
> To me what I notice on my own EQ Preset I try to get more clarity especially in the mids because I feel like the vocals (especially male vocals) end up falling way behind the rest on flat, but it's also overall sounds kinda blurred together to me on flat, and the bass also lacks depth and definition to me, the treble also lacks sparkle, but as soon as I try to lift it a bit my ears die from the sibilance.
> 
> ...


When I try to turn each frequency up, I ended up here

Edit: 125 is more like 2.5 db


----------



## quick1 (Oct 24, 2021)

dweaver said:


> The inner diameter is 5mm and the outer diameter of large is 12?? You be the judge.


That seems small. From that I'll need at least the large. I'll probably cut that wax trap out.


----------



## quick1 (Oct 26, 2021)

I received the ML SednaEarfit Crystals late yesterday and tried them on the Bud Pro's. The diameter is definitely larger than the large Samsung tips. The opening to the ear is is extremely close in diameter to the ones Samsung supplied and there is no wax trap/ screen, just an open hole for sound to pass.  They do sit a bit further out from the tip of the bud's so they should fit deeper in the ear. They fit in the case and allow charging, no surprises.

I gave them a listen in the early hours of the AM while I was getting drowsy and some today. I think they extended the top a little and give slightly more detail as cymbal strikes are more noticeable and guitar licks are a little crisper. Perhaps there is more separation at the same time. Bass? I think It did a little there too. Overall a cleaner/ clearer sound. More gains in the mid and upper than lower.

With the Samsung tips I had to use the largest pair to get a seal and every now and then I don't think the right one was sealing that great. With the Samsung tips if I pushed in on them while listening and making slight adjustments they would gain sound volume and have better sound quality. As soon as I let go that sound improvement was gone and things seemed a bit muddier. I had ordered both Med and ML Crystals but only the larger ML tips showed up. With the SednaEarfit Crystals if I push in on them I gain almost no sound quality and they seem to stay put. They are a little more comfortable than the SednaEarfit lights.


----------



## dweaver (Oct 25, 2021)

quick1 said:


> That seems small. From that I'll need at least the large. I'll probably cut that wax trap out.


I don't mind the + in the middle of the tip. Those are the large tip I measured. Let me take another measurement to ensure I hadn't accidentally squeezed one side.



I would say it's more like 14mm for the large tip.


----------



## FYLegend

webvan said:


> Have you experimented more with this app ? This app makes the TaoTronics 94 pretty attractive but I can't find them anywhere, do they exist under another name maybe ? The SoundPeats T2 look pretty similar but they're not compatible with the app based on your findings.


I can find TaoTronics 94 on my list, but it can be confusing scrolling through the list as it contains every Bluetooth device your phone remembers.

Unfortunately the hard-limiter that causes this huffing distortion makes EQ adjustments difficult without lowering the volume. The factory preset is listed and doesn't have much of this distortion, but it doesn't show you what its EQ settings look like.

The T2 doesn't work with EQ but the app does make it a bit more convenient to change ANC modes without disruptions and you can force ambient mode to only work on one ear by putting one bud in the case and turning it on with the app.

My Galaxy Buds2 was at 31% today and the case only had 21% left. It charged to 68% after putting them back into the case. However, I noticed a lot of drain while on ANC - within a few minutes of wearing them without playing music the earbuds were down to 64%. One earbud also drains considerably faster than the other (one has 15% left when the right one is depleted). I guess this relates to the master-slave configuration but has been a recurring issue in Galaxy Buds.


----------



## W1ll1eTheP1mp

What are people thinking about these? New JVC/VICTOR TWS in wood. Seems to have a premium price though. Around 38900 YEN.   https://www.victor.jp/headphones/wireless/ha-fw1000t/


----------



## Robius

W1ll1eTheP1mp said:


> What are people thinking about these? New JVC/VICTOR TWS in wood. Seems to have a premium price though. Around 38900 YEN.   https://www.victor.jp/headphones/wireless/ha-fw1000t/


Interesting faceplate for sure.


----------



## Thesonofkrypton (Oct 25, 2021)

jant71 said:


> Interesting fact as we might assume that this is what they did. Make an FW01 into TWS. Turns out....
> 
> The specs do say it is a wood dome carbon and not just the wood dome as in the FW01.
> https://www-phileweb-com.translate....auto&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en-US&_x_tr_pto=nui
> (Some JVC propaganda but does peak the interest)


Thanks for that info.  That's very interesting, this certainly has me interested.  I don't really need another pair of TWS, but I do like what JVC offer sound wise so wouldn't mind trying this but I see it's only available via Drop?


----------



## Juturna

scubaphish said:


> When I try to turn each frequency up, I ended up here
> 
> Edit: 125 is more like 2.5 db


I tried it and it's not working great for me. Right now i'm at 
80: 1.5dB
125: -3.0dB
400: 1.5dB
1,25: 2.5 dB
4: -1dB
8: 1.5dB

And it's okay but I'm not 100% loving it either.


----------



## jant71

dweaver said:


> I don't mind the + in the middle of the tip. Those are the large tip I measured. Let me take another measurement to ensure I hadn't accidentally squeezed one side.
> 
> I would say it's more like 14mm for the large tip.


Extreme close up!!


W1ll1eTheP1mp said:


> What are people thinking about these? New JVC/VICTOR TWS in wood. Seems to have a premium price though. Around 38900 YEN.   https://www.victor.jp/headphones/wireless/ha-fw1000t/


Never heard of 'em. I'm always late on the newest stuff.


----------



## Thesonofkrypton

11mm driver is enticing though I have to say lol


----------



## erockg

@dj24 Calls are crisp and clear.  No issues so far.  Sound is great.  No soundstage like the Devialet Gemini, but that is to be expected.  ANC is okay for fans and home appliance hum.  Haven't tested it with anything else.  Good for my needs at home working.  I've had all the Jabra's since the the original first gen.  Granted my memory isn't perfect, but I do enjoy the sound on these 7 Pros very much.  Bass isn't as muddy as I felt the 75/85s are, were.  I think the sound separation is a little better here.  Still listening.  I've been pitting them against the Sennheiser CX Plus today.  These two are competitors to one another.  The Jabra's are a better value feature-wise and seem to have a better form factor for the human ear.  They're the smallest Jabra buds yet and fit me better than the Sennies.  Sennies are great in their own right.  All the above said, there do seem to be a few bugs with the Jabra 7 Pro.  When you're listening to music and activate hearthrough, there's static for quick moment.  Annoying.  Also, the app freezes for a reason I can't figure out.  Not sure if it's iOS 15 or the app.  Has only happened twice.  I'm sure they'll fix them with a firmware update (fingers crossed).  These issues aren't deal breakers for me yet.  So, all in all, my favorite Jabra buds to date.  Despite the bugs, they're edging out the Sennies over here.


----------



## jant71 (Oct 26, 2021)

Saw these and they don't look half bad...





JBL Endurance Race, IP67, 10 hour battery 30 total, quick charge, smart ambient, dual beamform mics. $79. Next month it seems. Reflect Flow Pro is in stock now(the black)... https://www.worldwidestereo.com/pro...se-canceling-active-sport-earbuds?color=Black
Does have the 6.8mm driver and the ANC but wish they would have aptX. Great design though as far as being small and fit options.


...and Aviot with a budget ANC option also $80.




Qualcomm 3040 chip, 5.2 with aptX and adaptive, TW mirroring, 4 Knowles mics, ambient, and 9 hours per charge.


----------



## chinmie

now, out of the slew of Chi-Fi IEM companies that presented their TWS, this teaser is the one that somehow interest me. I only have heard their Oxygen, but based on reports that they have somewhat the same tuning across their IEMs, I'm hopeful that this is also tuned similarly, as they even kept their IEM shape for this TWS too

still no info on the tech side of things though...


----------



## darveniza

And the onslaught of Chi Fi TWS begins ,very soon we will have TWS with 10 drivers, etc. 😀
Hopefully companies will master ANC mics for calling as these are the killer features of real TWS. If I want hear audio fidelity I will just hard wire myself in.😉
Portability for me is being able to enjoy my music untethered but when I need to talk for people to hear me with no distortion or when I want to listen to a podcast or VM in a crowded place that I can actually hear!! 🙃


----------



## DigDub (Oct 25, 2021)

Listening to the buds pro again. The Sennheiser tips fit securely on the buds pro and fits + charge in the case without issues. They sound pretty good.


----------



## quick1

I made an inquiry at Comply about their tips for the Bud Pro's asking when they will be available. They told me they were available but had to pull them from the market because there was a retention issue and that they would once again be available in a few weeks. My guess is that the foam was separating from the rubber/ plastic that goes around the TWS tip.


----------



## Tommy C

So shockingly enough I think my TWS itch is gone for now thanks to to the 1More Comfobuds Pro. 

They have a shallow fit, super comfy, strong mids sparkly highs and great bass so with the Sennheiser CX 400BT and the Fiil T1XS I think I'm all set! (at least for now)

If I were to get the 1More before the Sennheiser I would have probably skipped the CX 400BT because the Comfobuds Pro do almost everything right.

The main difference between the two in terms of sq is that the 1More are more resolving and have stronger mids. They also do Imaging differently. 
The CX 400BT have wider soundstage and depth while the Comfobuds Pro have more height on top of width to the soundstage and you feel like you are on stage or in front of the singer while the Sennheiser are a bit further away from the action. 

The Comfobuds Pro have super well done Ambient, the best I have had, which is very useful to me and the ANC for my use case is excellent. 

If you are considering the 1More get the Aurora Blue which has the pre-sets for eq while the black and white versions don't. (I know, super odd marketing choice). 

I got mine well below their price tag and at $60 you're winning all day as their pre-sets eq is better and more responsive than the 3 bar Sennheiser eq. 

I got both pairs below retail and use them both as part of my rotation as they are different enough to keep both.


----------



## Ceeluh7

chinmie said:


> now, out of the slew of Chi-Fi IEM companies that presented their TWS, this teaser is the one that somehow interest me. I only have heard their Oxygen, but based on reports that they have somewhat the same tuning across their IEMs, I'm hopeful that this is also tuned similarly, as they even kept their IEM shape for this TWS too
> 
> still no info on the tech side of things though...


Tanchjim, I would think will tune these very well. They are a solid company with pretty high standards for chi-fi so.... I'm curious


----------



## jant71 (Oct 26, 2021)

chinmie said:


> now, out of the slew of Chi-Fi IEM companies that presented their TWS, this teaser is the one that somehow interest me. I only have heard their Oxygen, but based on reports that they have somewhat the same tuning across their IEMs, I'm hopeful that this is also tuned similarly, as they even kept their IEM shape for this TWS too
> 
> still no info on the tech side of things though...


Would like to see the shape more as well. A bit odd with the driver in front in that ball it would be good to see the rest of it. Not really shaped like their iems actually. Just the face is that shape in front. They might stick out quite a bit. Need more angles to judge better.
Hope they are better finished for the final version. ECHO is pushed toward the corner more which is fine but the logo on the other side is back too far and gets cut off by the mic screen when it doesn't have to. Hope they fix things like that when it is final.


----------



## jant71 (Oct 26, 2021)

Not that the buds are anything good but this design is pretty cool...




Just need to add a spring mech and button so as you take them out you press the button and they open up for you to take out. They really got to start doing stuff with cases. The buds have been progressing but not the cases. No storage, no interesting designs from the big brands, no swappable batteries.  The Pi7 had the transmitter built in which was at least something though not something that interested me.


----------



## webvan

So my L3Ps are going back : 
- the harshness never went away, regardless of the EQ settings
- call quality was terrible in my experience, especially when there were kids making noise at the park
-  after 30 minutes of running (and sweating) it started 'self-pressing", very, very annoying !
- overall isolation is only "so, so" courtesy of the weak passive isolation
+ good SQ (apart from the harshness) and wide soundstage
+ wind noise handling not bad on a bike
+ the runner"s "thud" is pretty well handled wit ANC on, best IEM I've used in that respect.


----------



## Tommy C

webvan said:


> So my L3Ps are going back :
> - the harshness never went away, regardless of the EQ settings
> - call quality was terrible in my experience, especially when there were kids making noise at the park
> -  after 30 minutes of running (and sweating) it started 'self-pressing", very, very annoying !
> ...



Thanks for the summary.
I think I'll pass on the L3P although I was tempted and Amazon returns are super easy but I think I just don't want the hassle after reading feedbacks here.
And since I'm very happy with my current rotation I'll wait to see if they release a FW update to deal with the harshness.


----------



## nijfi

I eventually caved in sooner than I'd hoped with going into EQ on my LP3's. But I did give them nearly 30 hours chance on the original HearID. 
The harshness never went and I got impatient. So I tried another HearID just to see, but got the same sound back... Overly bright and that metallic feeling still there, but still with a bottom end that I quite enjoy as it has plenty of weight without being muddy or bloated. 
Yesterday I played around with the EQ and I've managed to iron out a bit of the harshness and no longer wince at those high hats and such like. But it's still not quite right to my ears. I'll likely continue to play around. Can firmware updates on TWS really alter sound quality? 
On balance, and in truth because I took a gamble and bought at a bargain on eBay so have spunked my returns get out, I'll be keeping them. They're certainly not unlistenable by any means, and I can't be arsed to sell them on and go chasing a sound I may never actually find in TWS, especially at the price I'm prepared to pay.
The detail retrieval and soundstage is actually rather nice, if it wasn't for the harshness that comes as part of the package it seems. 
For me, as my first set of TWS, and knowing I wasn't realistically going to compete with wired, they'll do for me for the benefits of convenience. I can live with the sound and just take it as something different to what I'm used to. Plus, I get the added bonus of the joy each time I come back to wired


----------



## erockg

erockg said:


> @dj24 Calls are crisp and clear.  No issues so far.  Sound is great.  No soundstage like the Devialet Gemini, but that is to be expected.  ANC is okay for fans and home appliance hum.  Haven't tested it with anything else.  Good for my needs at home working.  I've had all the Jabra's since the the original first gen.  Granted my memory isn't perfect, but I do enjoy the sound on these 7 Pros very much.  Bass isn't as muddy as I felt the 75/85s are, were.  I think the sound separation is a little better here.  Still listening.  I've been pitting them against the Sennheiser CX Plus today.  These two are competitors to one another.  The Jabra's are a better value feature-wise and seem to have a better form factor for the human ear.  They're the smallest Jabra buds yet and fit me better than the Sennies.  Sennies are great in their own right.  All the above said, there do seem to be a few bugs with the Jabra 7 Pro.  When you're listening to music and activate hearthrough, there's static for quick moment.  Annoying.  Also, the app freezes for a reason I can't figure out.  Not sure if it's iOS 15 or the app.  Has only happened twice.  I'm sure they'll fix them with a firmware update (fingers crossed).  These issues aren't deal breakers for me yet.  So, all in all, my favorite Jabra buds to date.  Despite the bugs, they're edging out the Sennies over here.


I would stand pat here guys.  I'm dealing with a ton of bugs after updating the firmware with my iPhone.  Read that I should reinstall the fw and because the Jabra Sound + app kept freezing on my iPhone, I used my iPad to do this.  Reconnected to my iPhone now to see if the issues persist.  One that drove me nuts is while on a Zoom, the buds kept randomly muting themselves.  Awful.  We'll see if this reinstall of the firmware fixed things.  I'll report back soon.


----------



## rhsauer

nijfi said:


> I eventually caved in sooner than I'd hoped with going into EQ on my LP3's. But I did give them nearly 30 hours chance on the original HearID.
> The harshness never went and I got impatient. So I tried another HearID just to see, but got the same sound back... Overly bright and that metallic feeling still there, but still with a bottom end that I quite enjoy as it has plenty of weight without being muddy or bloated.
> Yesterday I played around with the EQ and I've managed to iron out a bit of the harshness and no longer wince at those high hats and such like. But it's still not quite right to my ears. I'll likely continue to play around. Can firmware updates on TWS really alter sound quality?
> On balance, and in truth because I took a gamble and bought at a bargain on eBay so have spunked my returns get out, I'll be keeping them. They're certainly not unlistenable by any means, and I can't be arsed to sell them on and go chasing a sound I may never actually find in TWS, especially at the price I'm prepared to pay.
> ...


To all those complaining of "harshness" on the L3P's, it might be a problem with fit.  After playing with them for a week or so now, I'm finding that you don't have to insert them deeply into your ear canal (in fact, it can get painful if you do).  I just place them in my ears, using the large tips, and give them the smallest possible counterclockwise twist to lock them in (I barely need that twist).  I confirm they're sealed by slightly pulling on them (or using the fit test).  Worn as described, they're very, very comfortable -- and not harsh or metallic.  I _do_ use the EQ to pump up the mids a bit, to personal taste, and I'm finding the overall sound profile really enjoyable.  Clarity and soundstage are terrific, as others have noted -- and the low end is transformative.  I'm not using the HearID for sound, but I am using it for ANC, which I find very effective.  (I've been wearing them successfully on the NY subway for the last few days.)  Call quality also seems great.  All in, I'm very happy with them.


----------



## erockg

erockg said:


> I would stand pat here guys.  I'm dealing with a ton of bugs after updating the firmware with my iPhone.  Read that I should reinstall the fw and because the Jabra Sound + app kept freezing on my iPhone, I used my iPad to do this.  Reconnected to my iPhone now to see if the issues persist.  One that drove me nuts is while on a Zoom, the buds kept randomly muting themselves.  Awful.  We'll see if this reinstall of the firmware fixed things.  I'll report back soon.


Nope, still having issues.  App freezes.  Which is annoying because in order to activate your ANC, you need the app to set it up.  Dumb.  Debating if these need to go back and if I have the patience to wait for a "possible" firmware fix, if that is even coming.  Fit is great.  Form factor is wonderful.  But man, this is annoying.


----------



## Tommy C

erockg said:


> Nope, still having issues.  App freezes.  Which is annoying because in order to activate your ANC, you need the app to set it up.  Dumb.  Debating if these need to go back and if I have the patience to wait for a "possible" firmware fix, if that is even coming.  Fit is great.  Form factor is wonderful.  But man, this is annoying.



Disappointing to read this mainly because based on my experience with Jabra's TWS and wireless headphones their app always been top notch and super reliable.  
Very little issues with their products over the years.


----------



## erockg

Tommy C said:


> Disappointing to read this mainly because based on my experience with Jabra's TWS and wireless headphones their app always been top notch and super reliable.
> Very little issues with their products over the years.


Completely agree.  This is just weird.  Lot of other folks experiencing the same issue on Reddit.  Stunning that Jabra dropped the ball here.  Yes, a fw update "could" solve this quickly, but for $200 bucks c'mon Jabra!


----------



## tinyman392 (Oct 26, 2021)

erockg said:


> Completely agree.  This is just weird.  Lot of other folks experiencing the same issue on Reddit.  Stunning that Jabra dropped the ball here.  Yes, a fw update "could" solve this quickly, but for $200 bucks c'mon Jabra!


I know the older Jabra buds work well today, but how was it when they first launched?  I still agree that these sorts of issues should have been sorted out by now.  It's annoying that the mentality of release a half-finished product and fix it with patches later is becoming a major thing in the headphone business.  It's already annoying with video games.

Edit: I don't know about Jabra, but I do remember with B&O, when the E8 first came out it was riddled with some bugs.  Same with the Sony WF-1000XM1, it had issues coming out of the gate.  Though most of these were fixed with time.  I know the XM4 isn't seeing as many issues while the EQ is.  Sometimes history repeats itself sometimes it doesn't.


----------



## erockg

tinyman392 said:


> I know the older Jabra buds work well today, but how was it when they first launched?  I still agree that these sorts of issues should have been sorted out by now.  It's annoying that the mentality of release a half-finished product and fix it with patches later is becoming a major thing in the headphone business.  It's already annoying with video games.


Oddly enough, I've never had any issues with every gen of Jabra TWS, until now.  I hear you about the video games.  Never enough QC out there.


----------



## tinyman392 (Oct 26, 2021)

erockg said:


> Oddly enough, I've never had any issues with every gen of Jabra TWS, until now.  I hear you about the video games.  Never enough QC out there.


I only got my Jabra towards their end of life, so I never read up on how the launch of these products went  This is very interesting, and disappointing at the same time.

Edit: by that same token, I'm still waiting for the Moodrop Sparks app to drop for iOS


----------



## erockg

tinyman392 said:


> I know the older Jabra buds work well today, but how was it when they first launched?  I still agree that these sorts of issues should have been sorted out by now.  It's annoying that the mentality of release a half-finished product and fix it with patches later is becoming a major thing in the headphone business.  It's already annoying with video games.
> 
> Edit: I don't know about Jabra, but I do remember with B&O, when the E8 first came out it was riddled with some bugs.  Same with the Sony WF-1000XM1, it had issues coming out of the gate.  Though most of these were fixed with time.  I know the XM4 isn't seeing as many issues while the EQ is.  Sometimes history repeats itself sometimes it doesn't.


For sure, those E8s had bugs, even the EQs which drove me nuts.  Sony didn't have many issues for me, but I've never been a fan of their sound signature.  For all the money we spend on this obsession, we do expect better.  This is just surprising on Jabra's part.  I read the issues and though, nah, not Jabra...  Famous last words.


----------



## Tommy C

erockg said:


> Oddly enough, I've never had any issues with every gen of Jabra TWS, until now.  I hear you about the video games.  Never enough QC out there.



Ditto. All my Jabra products worked great from day one. 
Only thing I can remember is with the Jabra Elite Sport. The Ambient mode had hiccups that were fixed shortly after with a FW update.

When it comes to Jabra I always considered that support to be top tier so it's really bizarre but the release is a let down (to me) as some features from the t85 were not implemented in the 7 Pro, unless of course a new 8 Pro model is coming down the pipe soon and will be the new flagship.


----------



## erockg

Tommy C said:


> Ditto. All my Jabra products worked great from day one.
> Only thing I can remember is with the Jabra Elite Sport. The Ambient mode had hiccups that were fixed shortly after with a FW update.
> 
> When it comes to Jabra I always considered that support to be top tier so it's really bizarre but the release is a let down (to me) as some features from the t85 were not implemented in the 7 Pro, unless of course a new 8 Pro model is coming down the pipe soon and will be the new flagship.


Possibly re: the 8.  Right now, the 7 Pro are working fine and the app isn't freezing.  I'm not really sure why it's happening.  The CX Plus have zero issues.


----------



## webvan

Just to backtrack on the "Jabra 7 Pro", how are they supposed to fit in the Jabra lineup ? Do they replace the 65s and/or 75s ?


----------



## Tommy C

webvan said:


> Just to backtrack on the "Jabra 7 Pro", how are they supposed to fit in the Jabra lineup ? Do they replace the 65s and/or 75s ?


I remember reading somewhere that they are supposed to replace the 75t which makes sense because the 85t were release later so it won’t make sense to update them when they are barely a year old.


----------



## Dobrescu George

Smartphone brands and TWS IEMs don't always go hand in hand, and today we are having a look at the PurPods PRO from ZMI and Xiaomi!! 

Those have an actually good sonic quality, and while the original version had pretty serious roll-off in both the bass and the treble, the PRO version is quite enjoyable, has a good amount of lows, and can get plenty loud, making it a worthy competitor to the Airpods they are desgined to look like  

More info about the PurPods PRO in today's full written review~! 

https://www.audiophile-heaven.com/2...ems-more-apple-like-tws-iems-from-xiaomi.html


----------



## gdv brisbane (Oct 27, 2021)

https://shenzhenaudio.com/blogs/news/moondrop-nekocake-tws-launched-now





I know that the Moondrop Sparks were not particularly well received, but I love my Moondrop Aria +TRNBT20S Pro combo, so it will be interesting to see how well Moondrop have managed to fit ANC into the Moondrop Nekocake TWS for only $43...


----------



## Tommy C

gdv brisbane said:


> https://shenzhenaudio.com/blogs/news/moondrop-nekocake-tws-launched-now
> 
> 
> 
> ...



For $43 I'm curious but not expecting much in terms of sound quality really but of course I hope I'm wrong.

I was looking into the Sparks and thought based on sound signature and reviews they were an interesting enough set of TWS for $80 especially with the now added iPhone app and the old Android app.


----------



## profusion (Oct 27, 2021)

I just got TIIL t1xs, I tested them, so fat the sound is let say "ok" nothing special (comparing to my dq6). I have 2 questions for guys having them too:
- My left unit generates a very strangely high-pitch-electric sound when I force/press the unit into the ear with my hands is it the same with you?
- Is there better tips to replace the stock from aliexpres?


----------



## Skinner

Tommy C said:


> So shockingly enough I think my TWS itch is gone for now thanks to to the 1More Comfobuds Pro.
> 
> They have a shallow fit, super comfy, strong mids sparkly highs and great bass so with the Sennheiser CX 400BT and the Fiil T1XS I think I'm all set! (at least for now)
> 
> ...



Fully agree with your thoughts on these. Bought them a week ago and am really surprised at how good the ANC, ambient mode, comfort and sound quality is - vocals really shine. In many ways, I prefer them to the MTW2, although as you say about the CX 400BT, they are so different it's easy to justify keeping both! 

Only things I don't like are how long the stems are (rubs against my beard, which I can hear when not playing music), and the controls, which are limited. Also, I didn't realise when I bought them that the Aurora Blue had different EQ settings, and I bought the black colour, annoying! 

Tempted to return and re-order, but the black were/are approx £60 here, whilst the blue are £76.49. In your view, are the pre-set EQ settings good enough to justify returning and spending an additional £15 on the blue?


----------



## Tommy C

Skinner said:


> Fully agree with your thoughts on these. Bought them a week ago and am really surprised at how good the ANC, ambient mode, comfort and sound quality is - vocals really shine. In many ways, I prefer them to the MTW2, although as you say about the CX 400BT, they are so different it's easy to justify keeping both!
> 
> Only things I don't like are how long the stems are (rubs against my beard, which I can hear when not playing music), and the controls, which are limited. Also, I didn't realise when I bought them that the Aurora Blue had different EQ settings, and I bought the black colour, annoying!
> 
> Tempted to return and re-order, but the black were/are approx £60 here, whilst the blue are £76.49. In your view, are the pre-set EQ settings good enough to justify returning and spending an additional £15 on the blue?



I'm really enjoying them. I don't love the stem style design but it's not as bad as initially thought and the call quality is excellent as the stem is basically resting against my bone.

It sure is an odd marketing move to have one color out of the lineup a different sound signature and added eq features IMO.

If you ask me, the Aurora Blue with the pre-sets eq are worth it if you can still return the black ones.

I mainly use the Default eq but often switch to Acoustic or Electronic and a few pre-sets actually enhance the soundstage very well.
Out of the 22 available I found 20 of them to alter to sound and 14 to noticeably change it.

To me at least 12 pre-sets out of the 22 are useful but other than the Loud option they all change the sound to my ears. 

Unlike the Sennheiser sound, the 1More sound is much more responsive to each eq pre-set and makes a big difference. 
With the Sennheiser I often need to play with the eq to make sure it's even working since the changes are more like a minor tweak while with the 1More it transforms the sound signature to fit different genres.

I basically explore the options based on their website and for the most part they are spot on.


----------



## Toom

Anyone got good things to say about using the Fiio UTSW3 vs true wireless sets?


----------



## Ceeluh7

Tommy C said:


> For $43 I'm curious but not expecting much in terms of sound quality really but of course I hope I'm wrong.
> 
> I was looking into the Sparks and thought based on sound signature and reviews they were an interesting enough set of TWS for $80 especially with the now added iPhone app and the old Android app.


Sparks are a very nice set in terms of SQ. If you dig the signature. I think their first set of tws was a smash man... They did good


----------



## Ceeluh7 (Oct 27, 2021)

Toom said:


> Anyone got good things to say about using the Fiio UTSW3 vs true wireless sets?


Ya... They blow the best tws out of the water with the correct synergy iem attached, which is pretty much anything you put on them. They are great. The cons are the enormous case, which it has to be that size, maybe the style some may not like. The implementation of dac and much more powerful amp do a very good job at driving sensitive to not so sensitive iems. If I put my Final E4000 on them it doesn't quite push them to what I like out of Final iems without going near full volume but anything underneath that (more sensitive iems) sounds fantastic.


----------



## Ceeluh7

Okay... Guys... What do any of you think of the Devialet Gemini. I realize there has been posts about them on here in the past but I'm hoping connection issues and battery drain have since been updated out of these. Sound quality wise, ANC, updates? I am about to hit the "Buy Now" button but figured I'd run it through some people who have owned this set.


----------



## Skinner

Tommy C said:


> I'm really enjoying them. I don't love the stem style design but it's not as bad as initially thought and the call quality is excellent as the stem is basically resting against my bone.
> 
> It sure is an odd marketing move to have one color out of the lineup a different sound signature and added eq features IMO.
> 
> ...


That's really useful, thanks for the quick response! 

Really like the default tuning, but it doesn't work for everything, so seems like a no-brainer to return them and get the Aurora Blue. 

Agree about the Sennheiser eq, it's not great. Wasn't a fan of the 'neutral' pre-set initially, so bumped up the treble and lowered the bass a bit, but eventually found that too shrill so moved the sliders back a little, but that made it nearly indistinguishable from the neutral setting, so gave up and left it at neutral most of the time. Getting the right ear tips made a bigger difference. Stock tips didn't fit well, and foam reduced the clarity and felt uncomfortable (although helped remove sibilance), but Spinfit CP360s are working better. Comfobuds Pro are far easier to get along with though.


----------



## karloil

Toom said:


> Anyone got good things to say about using the Fiio UTSW3 vs true wireless sets?



I have both UTWS3 and UTWS1. I find myself using my TWS more than my FiiOs. TWS are much smaller, easier to plug into my ears. But really depends on you, if you have a lot of IEMs and would just want to try them out, maybe look for them in the Used market, just so that you can try them out with your IEMs and be able to save a bit. FYI, UTWS5 is about to be released as well. 

I still have a few IEMs that my UTWS's can drive but for the sake of comfort, I prefer using my TWSs.


----------



## Ceeluh7

karloil said:


> I have both UTWS3 and UTWS1. I find myself using my TWS more than my FiiOs. TWS are much smaller, easier to plug into my ears. But really depends on you, if you have a lot of IEMs and would just want to try them out, maybe look for them in the Used market, just so that you can try them out with your IEMs and be able to save a bit. FYI, UTWS5 is about to be released as well.
> 
> I still have a few IEMs that my UTWS's can drive but for the sake of comfort, I prefer using my TWSs.


Agree, I much more gravitate to tws just for the form factor, I do have a bunch of iems and when in the mood the Utws3 serve a good purpose. BTW utws5 does look nice... Still haven't gone to market I don't think?


----------



## jsmiller58

Ceeluh7 said:


> Agree, I much more gravitate to tws just for the form factor, I do have a bunch of iems and when in the mood the Utws3 serve a good purpose. BTW utws5 does look nice... Still haven't gone to market I don't think



On the UTWS5 thread FiiO reports that it is not available outside of China until sometime in November.  Also, aptX HD is not supported, but instead they have opted for the newer, higher performance, but not as widely adopted aptX Adaptive.  That is causing a minor dust up in the thread.


----------



## erockg

webvan said:


> Just to backtrack on the "Jabra 7 Pro", how are they supposed to fit in the Jabra lineup ? Do they replace the 65s and/or 75s ?


From what Jabra's website says, they fall in right before the 85T.


----------



## Ceeluh7

jsmiller58 said:


> On the UTWS5 thread FiiO reports that it is not available outside of China until sometime in November.  Also, aptX HD is not supported, but instead they have opted for the newer, higher performance, but not as widely adopted aptX Adaptive.  That is causing a minor dust up in the thread.


Ya I have a few aptx adaptive iems and being that I use either my Fiio M11 or my Samsung Galaxy Note 10+ I haven't been able to take advantage of the codec. Aptx is fine though, I can't imagine a crazy difference. I believe the implementation of the engine inside is what really can make a dif....possibly. The newer chip and upgraded dac should push these even better. I will Def still purchase the 5's. Thanks for your thoughts man


----------



## erockg

Ceeluh7 said:


> Agree, I much more gravitate to tws just for the form factor, I do have a bunch of iems and when in the mood the Utws3 serve a good purpose. BTW utws5 does look nice... Still haven't gone to market I don't think?


For what it's worth, I use the Shure MMCX TW2 adapters with the SE846 IEMs and they are phenomenal.  Zero issues.


----------



## Ceeluh7

erockg said:


> For what it's worth, I use the Shure MMCX TW2 adapters with the SE846 IEMs and they are phenomenal.  Zero issues.


Ya man I've been checking those out as well. They are the only adapter type tws I haven't tried and I've heard only very good things, especially the 2nd Gen tw2. Everyone seems to be pleased with them... Throw on the SE846 and damn.... You prob have a fantastic set there.


----------



## tinyman392

karloil said:


> I have both UTWS3 and UTWS1. I find myself using my TWS more than my FiiOs. TWS are much smaller, easier to plug into my ears. But really depends on you, if you have a lot of IEMs and would just want to try them out, maybe look for them in the Used market, just so that you can try them out with your IEMs and be able to save a bit. FYI, UTWS5 is about to be released as well.
> 
> I still have a few IEMs that my UTWS's can drive but for the sake of comfort, I prefer using my TWSs.


Yeah, the TWS cases aren't portable at all which is a shame.  I've kind of turned away from adapting TWS headphones and going towards a normal BT cable for the headphones.


----------



## erockg

tinyman392 said:


> Yeah, the TWS cases aren't portable at all which is a shame.  I've kind of turned away from adapting TWS headphones and going towards a normal BT cable for the headphones.


Sometimes I just leave the case for my Shure TW2s at home.  They're easy to power off and last pretty long.


----------



## ryuflatron (Oct 27, 2021)

clerkpalmer said:


> Past 10 business days on my EQ RMA. Suffice to say, I'm not pleased. Support was nice enough but no explanation as to why. So I've been without them for 2 weeks. Not a very reliable system.


Hi,

Any update on your B&O EQ RMA? I just got mine few days ago, love the design and ( a little bit of) sound. But with its price, I expect more than noise floor, unstable connection, stupid touch function ( which I can try to survive with ) and no battery low sound warning (My right bud died without noticing me, I put it in the charger and take it out after a minute, it showed 36%. The right bud drains battery quicker than left one ~ 2% different, do you have this issue as well?)  . My top piority is SQ and ANC and that is why I did not pull a trigger on ordering Noble Fokus Pro ( I am sure that SQ on Fokus would be better but I need ANC). The ANC helps a lot but still thinking on returning it ( AMZ gave me until Jan 31 2022 to return). Do you consider B&O EQ or Noble Fokus pro a keeper ?


----------



## scubaphish (Oct 27, 2021)

Ceeluh7 said:


> Okay... Guys... What do any of you think of the Devialet Gemini. I realize there has been posts about them on here in the past but I'm hoping connection issues and battery drain have since been updated out of these. Sound quality wise, ANC, updates? I am about to hit the "Buy Now" button but figured I'd run it through some people who have owned this set.


I personally love them. I’m not familiar with connection issues but battery certainly drains inconsistently between buds. I haven’t had issues with draining in case, although I think others have mentioned it. When using them, start at 100/100, but by time left side is at 50 right is 40. Last I heard from Devialet they’re working on a fw release for this quarter.

Driver flex is an issue. I only use low transparency and low ANC to mitigate the popping sounds that come with movements. Doing that really controls it for me. That said, when walking around I do have to adjust them every once in a while.

Sound wise I think they’re fantastic. I don’t get fatigued either. ANC is stellar even on low, much to my pleasant surprise; both indoors and out.

No surprise, I feel case is too big.

Edit: what do I mean by fantastic sound? The high hats and snares are so detailed. Bass is strong and punchy but doesn’t hide other frequencies. I can hear the bass guitar, not just the boom it creates. Mids/vocals are strong for me. I listen to the likes of Amy Winehouse, Phish, Bob Marley, Lettuce, Soulive, Grateful Dead, Pink Floyd, Miles Davis, Charlie Parker. Use Apple Music and SiriusXM


----------



## TK33

erockg said:


> Sometimes I just leave the case for my Shure TW2s at home.  They're easy to power off and last pretty long.


I usually leave the case in my backpack. Found the TW2s can double as a great (but expensive) fidget toy.


----------



## dj24 (Oct 27, 2021)

Really surprised Jabra dropped the ball...  They're pretty meticulous with their releases and are well known for dropping a surprise or two further down the road as well.  Maybe it's time to replace my 75t Active's when I go to the gym.  Every time I'm there it always seems everyone else has them on.  I don't know but is it just me or do any of you notice that the other ubiquitous TWS that I always see at the gym are Jabras other than ipods of course which annoys me to no end for no reason.

The problem is no other IPX7 has survived my sweat fest at the gym like they have and with the spinfit 360's- they have the best fit I have ever encountered so far.  I think runners here know what I mean.  That dream land between euphoria and exhaustion when sweat starts pouring down our ears and we start pushing them in and trying to adjust them endlessly while veering right off the belt before just barely holding on...  Forget runners thud which I've gotten used to by now.  Just give me a TWS set with a similar excellent fit (even while sweating), anc & push buttons (because who wants to mess with touch screens running full speed) and decent call quality for the times when your family member calls to annoy you for something that can wait when he/ she clearly knows you're at the gym..


----------



## Ceeluh7

scubaphish said:


> I personally love them. I’m not familiar with connection issues but battery certainly drains inconsistently between buds. I haven’t had issues with draining in case, although I think others have mentioned it. When using them, start at 100/100, but by time left side is at 50 right is 40. Last I heard from Devialet they’re working on a fw release for this quarter.
> 
> Driver flex is an issue. I only use low transparency and low ANC to mitigate the popping sounds that come with movements. Doing that really controls it for me. That said, when walking around I do have to adjust them every once in a while.
> 
> ...


I thank you very much... That is a great reply. There are only so many options in the higher tier tws out there. It seems odd things are taken away from some of the higher end models out there. Devialet seems to have good features and add in good sound quality it seems these tick more boxes than most. Yes the case is huge... Another question... Do you put these in your pocket and if so does it look and feel ridiculous? Why in thee hell did they make the case so odd.... Lol


----------



## erockg

Ceeluh7 said:


> I thank you very much... That is a great reply. There are only so many options in the higher tier tws out there. It seems odd things are taken away from some of the higher end models out there. Devialet seems to have good features and add in good sound quality it seems these tick more boxes than most. Yes the case is huge... Another question... Do you put these in your pocket and if so does it look and feel ridiculous? Why in thee hell did they make the case so odd.... Lol


The case is smaller than the Bose and the Shure TW2, but man, once you hear the sound with the Dynamic EQ setting, you'll be sold.  They're pretty awesome for a pair of TWS.  The bass hit so hard, I love it!  I listen to some of what @scubaphish listens to and a lot of Maiden which absolutely shines on the Devialet.  The Ear Active Matching tech works great.  With a good seal, ANC is above average imo.  I was having the drain issues but a reset and repair seems to have fixed it for now.  Even though I have a TWS addiction, the Devialet Gemini are always at the top of my list and will never get sold until the next gen arrives (if ever).


----------



## Ceeluh7

erockg said:


> The case is smaller than the Bose and the Shure TW2, but man, once you hear the sound with the Dynamic EQ setting, you'll be sold.  They're pretty awesome for a pair of TWS.  The bass hit so hard, I love it!  I listen to some of what @scubaphish listens to and a lot of Maiden which absolutely shines on the Devialet.  The Ear Active Matching tech works great.  With a good seal, ANC is above average imo.  I was having the drain issues but a reset and repair seems to have fixed it for now.  Even though I have a TWS addiction, the Devialet Gemini are always at the top of my list and will never get sold until the next gen arrives


You just made this alot more difficult for me.... Or easier.... Lol... It seems as though I can't really go wrong. What's the worst, I take em back like the 50 other tws/iems/dongle I've taken back in the last year. Dude I just want that good sound out of a tws. I just sent the grados back because I had crazy stupid connection issues and touch panels that had a mind of their own. They sound fantastic, but lack of features... You already know, it's been covered here. Anyways, I thank you for giving your opinion on these.


----------



## scubaphish

Ceeluh7 said:


> I thank you very much... That is a great reply. There are only so many options in the higher tier tws out there. It seems odd things are taken away from some of the higher end models out there. Devialet seems to have good features and add in good sound quality it seems these tick more boxes than most. Yes the case is huge... Another question... Do you put these in your pocket and if so does it look and feel ridiculous? Why in thee hell did they make the case so odd.... Lol


I don’t know technical battery size but think it has to do with that. Also, supposedly battery is Devialet replace-able. 

Yeah, I’ve put in pocket but honestly I tend to carry a small messenger bag. 

To your other post, yeah, just get them, give a listen and see how you feel. I really tried a lot of the heavy hitters from a few months back and did a bake off..these were my favorite. No regrets. Falls asleep many nights in my chair listening to live music with these things.


----------



## erockg

Ceeluh7 said:


> You just made this alot more difficult for me.... Or easier.... Lol... It seems as though I can't really go wrong. What's the worst, I take em back like the 50 other tws/iems/dongle I've taken back in the last year. Dude I just want that good sound out of a tws. I just sent the grados back because I had crazy stupid connection issues and touch panels that had a mind of their own. They sound fantastic, but lack of features... You already know, it's been covered here. Anyways, I thank you for giving your opinion on these.


Yep, I had the Grados.  Sound was great, but I the fit was weird and there were zero feature.  The only negative for me about the Devialet is the lack of a volume control.  But the sound really makes up for it imo.  Buy them from Amazon.  Great return policy.  The first time I put the Devialet in and hit "Dynamic" in the EQ, I was like What, how did they do that.  But I'm just yet one other mans opinion!


----------



## erockg

scubaphish said:


> I don’t know technical battery size but think it has to do with that. Also, supposedly battery is Devialet replace-able.
> 
> Yeah, I’ve put in pocket but honestly I tend to carry a small messenger bag.
> 
> To your other post, yeah, just get them, give a listen and see how you feel. I really tried a lot of the heavy hitters from a few months back and did a bake off..these were my favorite. No regrets. Falls asleep many nights in my chair listening to live music with these things.


What this guy said


----------



## Ceeluh7

erockg said:


> Yep, I had the Grados.  Sound was great, but I the fit was weird and there were zero feature.  The only negative for me about the Devialet is the lack of a volume control.  But the sound really makes up for it imo.  Buy them from Amazon.  Great return policy.  The first time I put the Devialet in and hit "Dynamic" in the EQ, I was like What, how did they do that.  But I'm just yet one other mans opinion!


Ya I try to buy everything from Amazon. I think I'm going to give these a shot. I'm glad I found this thread, alot of knowledgable people seem to float around here and I'm sure you know that is valuable in this hobby we chose to enter into... So thanks again man


----------



## Ceeluh7

scubaphish said:


> I don’t know technical battery size but think it has to do with that. Also, supposedly battery is Devialet replace-able.
> 
> Yeah, I’ve put in pocket but honestly I tend to carry a small messenger bag.
> 
> To your other post, yeah, just get them, give a listen and see how you feel. I really tried a lot of the heavy hitters from a few months back and did a bake off..these were my favorite. No regrets. Falls asleep many nights in my chair listening to live music with these things.


You guys have me sold... I appreciate the quick responses and thoughts...


----------



## quick1 (Oct 27, 2021)

scubaphish said:


> To your other post, yeah, just get them, give a listen and see how you feel. I really tried a lot of the heavy hitters from a few months back and did a bake off..these were my favorite. No regrets. Falls asleep many nights in my chair listening to live music with these things.


Devialet Gemini ?​So have you guys tried other tips yet? What would you recommend?

I think I'll give these a shot. I just recently my first TWS, Samsung Bud Pro's, and while I think the last set of tips (Sedna EarFit Crystal) made a good sound improvement I still feel the bass is a little lacking. The music I listen to is pretty much rock. =
Lynyrd Skynyrd, Rush, Iron Maiden, Tool, Blink182, Seether, System Of A Down, Avenged Sevenfold, Black Stone Cherry, Broken Hands, Drowning Pool, Fall Out Boy, Five Finger Death Punch, Hinder, I Mother Earth, Incubus, Jet, Kings of Leon, Meat Puppets, Pop Evil, Shinedown, The Black Keys, Theory Of A Dead Man, Thousand Foot Crutch, Volbeat, Weezer, etc


----------



## clerkpalmer

ryuflatron said:


> Hi,
> 
> Any update on your B&O EQ RMA? I just got mine few days ago, love the design and ( a little bit of) sound. But with its price, I expect more than noise floor, unstable connection, stupid touch function ( which I can try to survive with ) and no battery low sound warning (My right bud died without noticing me, I put it in the charger and take it out after a minute, it showed 36%. The right bud drains battery quicker than left one ~ 2% different, do you have this issue as well?)  . My top piority is SQ and ANC and that is why I did not pull a trigger on ordering Noble Fokus Pro ( I am sure that SQ on Fokus would be better but I need ANC). The ANC helps a lot but still thinking on returning it ( AMZ gave me until Jan 31 2022 to return). Do you consider B&O EQ or Noble Fokus pro a keeper ?


Finally shipped them yesterday but haven't arrived.  Best balance of ANC and SQ may be the devialet gemini however.  I think the EQ sound better generally but the Gemini has better ANC.  Both have some gremlins.  I would recommend both.  I am really impressed with the Fokus sound quality but they may not be the best choice if you are looking for that single go-to all around TWS.


----------



## clerkpalmer

quick1 said:


> Devialet Gemini ?​So have you guys tried other tips yet? What would you recommend?


The improved stock tips are quite good for me.  I see no reason to experiment.


----------



## Ceeluh7

Ordered the Gemini, pretty jacked about that and should be here tomorrow... Thank you for all the thoughts.            
 Hopefully these will be my endgame set.......... 
I almost said that with a straight face...


----------



## d3myz

erockg said:


> Possibly re: the 8.  Right now, the 7 Pro are working fine and the app isn't freezing.  I'm not really sure why it's happening.  The CX Plus have zero issues.


I just returned mine. Sounded quite good, not excellent though. Features were great except the static noise when turning on and off ANC, Transparency mode was good, not great. Zoom, Teams and Phone calls were fantastic, but no multi-point yet and I hated short tips. No matter what size I tried I felt like my ears were being stuffed. Being able to use them independently in mono mode was a huge plus for me. background noise cancellation was also excellent as is the app. The battery life also seemed a little short to me, I think I got 4-6 hours max out of them, but don't take my word on that. I may pick them up again when the price drops about $70-80. For now i'll stick with my 75 and 85t's. Personally the 85ts while they are much bulkier are more comfortable for me. I wear them all day for work.


----------



## tinyman392

erockg said:


> Sometimes I just leave the case for my Shure TW2s at home.  They're easy to power off and last pretty long.


This is true too.  Though I would still feel better having some sort of pouch or smaller (non-charging) case for them if I were to do this.  I tend to not like to just shove things that aren't designed to bend every which direction into my pocket like that  I guess I'm also too used to APP battery life where things only last 4 hours  


TK33 said:


> I usually leave the case in my backpack. Found the TW2s can double as a great (but expensive) fidget toy.


If I have a bag with me, this is what I normally did.  Though that's only too and from work  I actually carry fidget spinners with me still...  You don't want to know how much I've spent on those little things.


----------



## bladefd (Oct 27, 2021)

I think I might have figured out a way to charge the MT consistently. About 4-5 days ago, I was frustrated with it & in process of filling out the RMA request and decided to try the things on their support page. I tried everything they had listed and it stayed at 2% charge. I decided I truly give up. In my frustration, I just put the MT aside inside the case and left the case open by mistake over night. The next morning I saw both earbuds lighting up, and thought I might just give it a last try before submitting the RMA. The left bud was 100% charged. I tried it again 2 more days by charging with the case open to replicate the results. 100% charged both days. Then I decided what the hell, let's try with case closed. Next morning it wasn't charged. I think something is definitely the issue with the case and design.

So now I will keep trying to charge with the case open. Let's see if I can do it consistently over the next 2 weeks. If it's consistent charging then I will just push it until next-generation earbuds in the spring hopefully. Keeping my fingers crossed. If it works, then every $150 spent was worth it (especially after getting it RMA'd once already) and the amazing sound.

It's not and should not be an ideal solution tbh. I don't recommend the MT anymore to others regardless.


----------



## quick1 (Oct 27, 2021)

Ceeluh7 said:


> Ordered the Gemini, pretty jacked about that and should be here tomorrow... Thank you for all the thoughts.
> Hopefully these will be my endgame set..........
> I almost said that with a straight face...


Too funny. Like someone trying to quit smoking on a bad day, "The stress man it was the stress!".


----------



## jant71

Some more info on the Victor... https://www.phileweb.com/interview/article/202110/27/854.html

Some useful stuff I took from it. They are tuned more like the FW10000 than the FW1500, the K2 is not just installed but also optimized for the FW1000T sound sig. The volume control is both single and continuous so you can double tap and get one step or hold on the second tap and it will keep going. The inside housing is not the same ABS resin as the outside but polycarb since it is better for the sound. 

A little more interesting. Was not going to partake but am thinking about it a bit more.


----------



## erockg

d3myz said:


> I just returned mine. Sounded quite good, not excellent though. Features were great except the static noise when turning on and off ANC, Transparency mode was good, not great. Zoom, Teams and Phone calls were fantastic, but no multi-point yet and I hated short tips. No matter what size I tried I felt like my ears were being stuffed. Being able to use them independently in mono mode was a huge plus for me. background noise cancellation was also excellent as is the app. The battery life also seemed a little short to me, I think I got 4-6 hours max out of them, but don't take my word on that. I may pick them up again when the price drops about $70-80. For now i'll stick with my 75 and 85t's. Personally the 85ts while they are much bulkier are more comfortable for me. I wear them all day for work.


I love that they're tiny.  Smallest Jabras yet.  I was having an auto-mute issue on Zoom calls yesterday.  Today when I tried up unpair from my iPhone and pair with my Mac for a Zoom, they wouldn't connect.  I do think the ANC and Transparency is better than most folks are saying.  I don't have my 75/85s anymore otherwise I'd probably keep the 85s.  I always felt like the bass was muddier and the fit wasn't as secure to my ears.  What is driving me nuts with the 7s is the app keeps freezing.  That said, the buds seem to be keeping their settings now.  I did a firmware reinstall yesterday, that seems to have gotten rid of the static issue when activating ANC/Transparency when music is playing, so that's good.  I can never settle on just one pair all day.  Usually mix it up.  Good to hear I'm not the only one who has had struggles with the 7s.


----------



## erockg

Don't know if anyone has tried this, but there is a new setting in the AirPods Pro menus that let you do a Mimi hearing test then import that to the APP.  I remember the Bragi Dash Pro had this feature and it worked well.  That, along with Spatial Audio stereo for music really does kick the APPs up a notch.  

If only there were more bass...  c'mon Apple.  Mix that in the Kool Aid I drank years ago.


----------



## rhsauer

erockg said:


> For what it's worth, I use the Shure MMCX TW2 adapters with the SE846 IEMs and they are phenomenal.  Zero issues.


This combo really is end game for TWS. It’s also ridiculously more expensive. It’s just a completely different thing.


----------



## erockg

rhsauer said:


> This combo really is end game for TWS. It’s also ridiculously more expensive. It’s just a completely different thing.


Ha ha! Funny thing is, I still screw around purchasing the cheaper stuff.  It's seriously a bad habit.  As I'm putting the Liberty 3 Pros in my cart...


----------



## Ceeluh7

quick1 said:


> Too funny. Like someone trying to quit smoking on a bad day, "The stress man it was the stress!".


You feel me bro... Lol


----------



## Tommy C (Oct 27, 2021)

erockg said:


> I love that they're tiny.  Smallest Jabras yet.  I was having an auto-mute issue on Zoom calls yesterday.  Today when I tried up unpair from my iPhone and pair with my Mac for a Zoom, they wouldn't connect.  I do think the ANC and Transparency is better than most folks are saying.  I don't have my 75/85s anymore otherwise I'd probably keep the 85s.  I always felt like the bass was muddier and the fit wasn't as secure to my ears.  What is driving me nuts with the 7s is the app keeps freezing.  That said, the buds seem to be keeping their settings now.  I did a firmware reinstall yesterday, that seems to have gotten rid of the static issue when activating ANC/Transparency when music is playing, so that's good.  I can never settle on just one pair all day.  Usually mix it up.  Good to hear I'm not the only one who has had struggles with the 7s.



When you're on a Zoom call using the Jabra, do you also have Skype for Business or Microsoft Teams running in the background?


----------



## ryuflatron

clerkpalmer said:


> Finally shipped them yesterday but haven't arrived.  Best balance of ANC and SQ may be the devialet gemini however.  I think the EQ sound better generally but the Gemini has better ANC.  Both have some gremlins.  I would recommend both.  I am really impressed with the Fokus sound quality but they may not be the best choice if you are looking for that single go-to all around TWS.


Do you have any issue with right bud drains more battery than the left one does? My right buds always drain 2-8% more than left bud. From 100% - 40%, it is 1-2% difference. But when the battery life reaches below 30, right bud is always 6-8% less than left bud. I fully charged first time before using it but right bud died without telling me anything.


----------



## quick1 (Oct 27, 2021)

Ceeluh7 said:


> You feel me bro... Lol


Ya, only because I.. also have a set of Devialet Gemini's on the way..
This site is evil.
​


----------



## Ceeluh7

quick1 said:


> Ya, only because I.. also have a set of Devialet Gemini's on the way..
> ​


Ha.... Nice....too funny man.


----------



## bladefd

ryuflatron said:


> Do you have any issue with right bud drains more battery than the left one does? My right buds always drain 2-8% more than left bud. From 100% - 40%, it is 1-2% difference. But when the battery life reaches below 30, right bud is always 6-8% less than left bud. I fully charged first time before using it but right bud died without telling me anything.


Typically the bud connected to your phone uses more battery since the other bud is piggybacking off the connected bud. 

Are you using TWS mode? Not all phones support TWS mode, but that links both buds to the phone at the same time. Not sure if that would use less battery though since both buds would be connected.


----------



## ryuflatron

bladefd said:


> Typically the bud connected to your phone uses more battery since the other bud is piggybacking off the connected bud.
> 
> Are you using TWS mode? Not all phones support TWS mode, but that links both buds to the phone at the same time. Not sure if that would use less battery though since both buds would be connected.


I never had TWS before. EQ is my first one so I am confused. TWS is always on. So I guess the right bud is the one which connects to my IP8+. Just feel uncomfortable about this


----------



## Tommy C

Skinner said:


> That's really useful, thanks for the quick response!
> 
> Really like the default tuning, but it doesn't work for everything, so seems like a no-brainer to return them and get the Aurora Blue.
> 
> Agree about the Sennheiser eq, it's not great. Wasn't a fan of the 'neutral' pre-set initially, so bumped up the treble and lowered the bass a bit, but eventually found that too shrill so moved the sliders back a little, but that made it nearly indistinguishable from the neutral setting, so gave up and left it at neutral most of the time. Getting the right ear tips made a bigger difference. Stock tips didn't fit well, and foam reduced the clarity and felt uncomfortable (although helped remove sibilance), but Spinfit CP360s are working better. Comfobuds Pro are far easier to get along with though.



The Sennheiser CX 400BT which should be very similar to the MTW2 if not identical sound great to me, however sometimes they feel too polite with the music. 
They aren't mellow but they are more forgiving but still nicely detailed while the Comfobuds Pro have more edge to the music but still remain as balanced sound and never caused me ear fatigue. 

The Sennheiser are great when I'm at home and want to enjoy the refined sound signature but since the CX 400BT have no Ambient or ANC the Comfobuds Pro will come with me to a road trip, train ride, the mall or the office, when it becomes a thing again since the ANC and Ambient both are excellent and the sound while balanced is energetic when called for it and really gives hifi vibes. 
The only thing that the Comfobuds Pro are lacking in the default setting is the better imaging and soundstage. It's not half bad and very close to the CX 400BT but with the pre-sets using the Acoustic or Classical you can bring it to very impressive levels. 

I truly love them both and at this point my TWS search for the foreseeable future has ended.


----------



## karloil

Ceeluh7 said:


> Agree, I much more gravitate to tws just for the form factor, I do have a bunch of iems and when in the mood the Utws3 serve a good purpose. BTW utws5 does look nice... Still haven't gone to market I don't think?



Yep, very soon to be released.



tinyman392 said:


> Yeah, the TWS cases aren't portable at all which is a shame.  I've kind of turned away from adapting TWS headphones and going towards a normal BT cable for the headphones.



This usually isn't an issue for me, I have a bag and just throw the cases in 😉



Ceeluh7 said:


> Ordered the Gemini, pretty jacked about that and should be here tomorrow... Thank you for all the thoughts.
> Hopefully these will be my endgame set..........
> I almost said that with a straight face...



Endgame? Hahaha 😂 I don't think so...only when you quit the hobby and delete your account here in Head-fi will you really start to mean it 😉


----------



## erockg

Tommy C said:


> When you're on a Zoom call using the Jabra, do you also have Skype for Business or Microsoft Teams running in the background?


No, just Zoom.  Zoom.  And more Zoom 🤮


----------



## Tommy C

erockg said:


> No, just Zoom.  Zoom.  And more Zoom 🤮


I recall my Jabra Evolve 2 65 behaving this way when my organization was transitioning from Skype to MS Teams. It was muting it by itself. 
See if you can maybe test it on a different laptop or your phone. I think it’s a Windows issue with Jabra products if I remember correctly.


----------



## chinmie

karloil said:


> Endgame? Hahaha 😂 I don't think so...only when you quit the hobby and delete your account here in Head-fi will you really start to mean it 😉



endgame.. of a single match... but it is an early game in a really long tournament


----------



## quick1 (Oct 28, 2021)

The Devialet Gemini's aren't supposed to show up till Friday. For some reason I want to keep calling them DEVIANT Gemini's. 

The SednaEarfit Crystals size Med showed up today for the Samsung Bud Pro's.  I must say they are on their game when it comes to the sizing comparison vs stock Samsung tips. The Large Samsung tips allowed the seal in my right ear to be broken on occasion (moving jaw, eating). The Med SednaEarfit Crystal's are sealing just fine and feel more comfortable then the ML size.


----------



## helmutcheese (Oct 28, 2021)

bladefd said:


> Typically the bud connected to your phone uses more battery since the other bud is piggybacking off the connected bud.
> 
> Are you using TWS mode? Not all phones support TWS mode, but that links both buds to the phone at the same time. Not sure if that would use less battery though since both buds would be connected.


That is actually TWS+ (Plus) and the phones chipset needs to support it or the buds will run as Master+Slave (some buds can still swap over to balance out the battery life) it has been replaced by TWS Mirroring where the phones chipset support does not matter.


----------



## diimaan

Just a quick question for you @erockg !~I believe you have an H95 from B&O!
I am seriously considering replacing my B&O Portal with H95, one thing I want to know is, does H95 supports passive audio with USB-C - USB-A connection? I see a lot of mixed and vague answers on this topic!


----------



## helmutcheese (Oct 28, 2021)

Forgot to post this, but SoundPeats now have a *new* working App out for Android, worked for my H1 Prems (faulty), did not work for Sonics (faulty), T2's (faulty) or Sonic Pro's.

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.thirtydays.headset&hl=en_GB&gl=US


----------



## jant71 (Oct 28, 2021)

helmutcheese said:


> Forgot to post this, but SoundPeats now have a *new* working App out for Android, worked for my H1 Prems (faulty), did not work for Sonics (faulty), T2's (faulty) or Sonic Pro's.
> 
> https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.thirtydays.headset&hl=en_GB&gl=US


Speaking of Soundpeats, for the H2 they went stem...










So that AT filing for a CKS50TW has appeared...
https://www.audio-technica.co.jp/product/ATH-CKS50TW







5.2, TW mirroring, aptX and adaptive, 9mm solid bass HD driver, 360 Reality Audio compatible, new hybrid tips... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




, 15 hours with noise cancelling on and 20 hours off 50 with the case, 10 minute charge for 90 minutes play, IPX4, low latency mode, fast pair, multipoint(2 devices), and an app to change controls/volume steps/EQ/locator/etc. ~$160 from yen and probably $179 here??

Guess AT are the first to hit the 20 hour mark? Leave the case at home lol!


----------



## Ceeluh7

helmutcheese said:


> Forgot to post this, but SoundPeats now have a *new* working App out for Android, worked for my H1 Prems (faulty), did not work for Sonics (faulty), T2's (faulty) or Sonic Pro's.
> 
> https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.thirtydays.headset&hl=en_GB&gl=US


Wow man... My Soundpeats H1 now have an app... Thank you for posting. I just tried and my H1 successfully are logged into the app.


----------



## helmutcheese (Oct 28, 2021)

And the T3 (also Stem) are a downgrade as not even Hybrid ANC.

Wonder if they have sorted their poor QC or a another rush job (far too many products now).

Those H2 only have 5 hours on bud at 60% and that is with a single 8mm driver so another downgrade.


----------



## Juturna

helmutcheese said:


> Forgot to post this, but SoundPeats now have a *new* working App out for Android, worked for my H1 Prems (faulty), did not work for Sonics (faulty), T2's (faulty) or Sonic Pro's.
> 
> https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.thirtydays.headset&hl=en_GB&gl=US


if they only had it out for iOS, I think they could be my daily drivers in that case


----------



## jant71

helmutcheese said:


> And the T3 (also Stem) are a downgrade as not even Hybrid ANC.
> 
> Wonder if they have sorted there poor QC or a rush job (far too many products now).
> 
> Those H2 only have 5 hours on bud at 60% and that is with a single 8mm driver so another downgrade.


Looks like they felt they should make one with the stem but not much different or an upgrade to the H1? The Apple influence at play perhaps.

Can't be single driver though and be the H2 as "H" is for hybrid  as in the pic...


----------



## Tommy C

jant71 said:


> Speaking of Soundpeats, for the H2 they went stem...
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Def like the battery life. From their webpage though it looks like these will be bass cannons as the marketing is strong on that one.


----------



## helmutcheese (Oct 28, 2021)

Only read some Asian stores with listing and it said 8mm driver at first glance.

*Update:*





*OFFICAL STORE:* https://www.ebay.com/itm/334190658737?hash=item4dcf50c4b1:g:DZUAAOSwKgFhZTyu

https://www.lazada.sg/products/soun...ch-control-20-hours-playtime-i2020390495.html

https://cplusdigital.com/soundpeats...phones?sort=p.date_added&order=DESC&limit=100

https://m.aliexpress.com/item/1005003460953708.html


----------



## jant71 (Oct 28, 2021)

Tommy C said:


> Def like the battery life. From their webpage though it looks like these will be bass cannons as the marketing is strong on that one.


Not their approach though. Solid Bass is usually trying to balance amount blended with some quality esp. when it is a model with an "HD" driver. They most likely will be able to be modded in the same way I modded the CKR70TW and peel the screen and remove the foam and put the screen back on which makes them interesting as even more capable soundwise for the price. The control scheme is very nice as well. They did not do the button plus touch like the CKR70 but got it to work in an interesting way:

1 press L is vol+
2 press L is vol-
Hold L for Transparency/ANC/Off

1 press R is play/pause
2 press R is FF
3 press R is RW
Hold R for quick hear-through(Transparency with volume lowered)

Not sure what happens with single side use but you can change the controls with the app.


----------



## vsg28

Maybe of interest for some folks here: https://www.techpowerup.com/288386/...ofessional-true-wireless-stereo-tws-earphones


----------



## helmutcheese




----------



## HaliHarry

It's so nice for me !!!


----------



## Tommy C

jant71 said:


> Not their approach though. Solid Bass is usually trying to balance amount blended with some quality esp. when it is a model with an "HD" driver. They most likely will be able to be modded in the same way I modded the CKR70TW and peel the screen and remove the foam and put the screen back on which makes them interesting as even more capable soundwise for the price. The control scheme is very nice as well. They did not do the button plus touch like the CKR70 but got it to work in an interesting way:
> 
> 1 press L is vol+
> 2 press L is vol-
> ...



Yeah, true but it’s just their bass everything marketing in their webpage that gives me wrong vibes like it’s a typical consumer tuning.


----------



## xSDMx (Oct 28, 2021)

New Soundpeats app is up on the Play Store this morning! It works perfectly with my H1s. So happy to have native EQ. There's a day1 firmware update for the H1s, too. Really impressed by their continued support. The H1s have been an absolute steal at the $80 price I paid.

Also: if you're having issues verifying your email for registration, check your spam folder. The verification wasn't localized to English and was entirely Chinese.


----------



## helmutcheese (Oct 28, 2021)

I posted it earlier and I was not offered a FW update for H1 Premiums and I doubt it will fix the one side being muddy and lower volume (KickStarter funded unusable after 7-10 days from new).


----------



## Ceeluh7

xSDMx said:


> New Soundpeats app is up on the Play Store this morning! It works perfectly with my H1s. So happy to have native EQ. There's a day1 firmware update for the H1s, too. Really impressed by their continued support. The H1s have been an absolute steal at the $80 price I paid.
> 
> Also: if you're having issues verifying your email for registration, check your spam folder. The verification wasn't localized to English and was entirely Chinese.


Ya man I've been playing with em here and there this morning and suddenly these are one of the best sub 100 buys out there. They respond very well to eq. I don't have a clue what the update did but..... It's updated... Nice


----------



## xSDMx

Ceeluh7 said:


> Ya man I've been playing with em here and there this morning and suddenly these are one of the best sub 100 buys out there. They respond very well to eq. I don't have a clue what the update did but..... It's updated... Nice


Have you figured out any way to toggle the ANC mode? There's UI for it in the app, but I'm not sure if it's a bug or intended to be shown for H1 users.


----------



## Ceeluh7

xSDMx said:


> Have you figured out any way to toggle the ANC mode? There's UI for it in the app, but I'm not sure if it's a bug or intended to be shown for H1 users.


Yes I have Def tried... And no... Doesn't work. I'm assuming that toggle is for another set. I tried everything and was pretty excited to think... "Holy S&*t they added ANC"... Don't think so though, I don't think they stuffed the tech in these.


----------



## erockg

Tommy C said:


> I recall my Jabra Evolve 2 65 behaving this way when my organization was transitioning from Skype to MS Teams. It was muting it by itself.
> See if you can maybe test it on a different laptop or your phone. I think it’s a Windows issue with Jabra products if I remember correctly.


I took a Zoom today and zero issues.  Guessing that the firmware install resolved it.  Fingers crossed!


----------



## erockg

diimaan said:


> Just a quick question for you @erockg !~I believe you have an H95 from B&O!
> I am seriously considering replacing my B&O Portal with H95, one thing I want to know is, does H95 supports passive audio with USB-C - USB-A connection? I see a lot of mixed and vague answers on this topic!


I did and I loved them.  I wound up returning due to my own issues with over ear headphones.  Sometimes they just do not feel comfortable.  That said, I never tried a wired connection.  If you get them, get a deal.  They're not worth full price.  Call B&O.  They're very responsive on the phone.  Maybe they can help.


----------



## erockg

For those who want some Technics TWS, B&H seems to be blowing the last gen out for $99 today:  https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/prod...ybalkytQRz70zCu_j4F3BeknVInx0REUaAp0mEALw_wcB


----------



## dweaver

HaliHarry said:


> It's so nice for me !!!


Need impressions ASAP


----------



## Tommy C

erockg said:


> For those who want some Technics TWS, B&H seems to be blowing the last gen out for $99 today:  https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1577691-REG/panasonic_eah_az70w_k_technics_true_wireless_earbuds.html/?ap=y&ap=y&smp=y&smp=y&lsft=BI:514&gclid=Cj0KCQjwlOmLBhCHARIsAGiJg7meaQWqSH0xO0Cepsf7j-uybalkytQRz70zCu_j4F3BeknVInx0REUaAp0mEALw_wcB



Dang.... Heck of a deal.


----------



## Tommy C

dweaver said:


> Need impressions ASAP



found this for you.


----------



## Ceeluh7

dweaver said:


> Need impressions ASAP


You and me both. Alot of pre-hype but for good reason. Intrigued


----------



## Tommy C

Ceeluh7 said:


> You and me both. Alot of pre-hype but for good reason. Intrigued



Based on the review that I have posted here it seems like the sound is still balanced but somewhat lean and missing some oomph and ANC is weak but take it with a grain of salt.


----------



## dj24

d3myz said:


> I just returned mine. Sounded quite good, not excellent though. Features were great except the static noise when turning on and off ANC, Transparency mode was good, not great. Zoom, Teams and Phone calls were fantastic, but no multi-point yet and I hated short tips. No matter what size I tried I felt like my ears were being stuffed. Being able to use them independently in mono mode was a huge plus for me. background noise cancellation was also excellent as is the app. The battery life also seemed a little short to me, I think I got 4-6 hours max out of them, but don't take my word on that. I may pick them up again when the price drops about $70-80. For now i'll stick with my 75 and 85t's. Personally the 85ts while they are much bulkier are more comfortable for me. I wear them all day for work.


Been a while since I've seen you in this thread..  What's currently in your rotation and which one are you enjoying the most?


----------



## FlacFan

xSDMx said:


> Have you figured out any way to toggle the ANC mode? There's UI for it in the app, but I'm not sure if it's a bug or intended to be shown for H1 users.


Small wonder...
They don't even have ANC to boot.

Cheers.


----------



## jant71 (Oct 28, 2021)

November 5th a big day in Japanese TWS for releases. The Victor and AT are dropping as is this...

https://aviot.jp/product/te-bd21j#te-bd21j-ltd
Upgraded the Knowles drivers and dynamic, Snapdragon Sound capable, aptX voice, ambient, multipoint, in ear detection, app. Not an ANC model though. ~$150 US before shipping.


----------



## Ceeluh7

Tommy C said:


> Based on the review that I have posted here it seems like the sound is still balanced but somewhat lean and missing some oomph and ANC is weak but take it with a grain of salt.


Ya Tommy I will wait for some reputable audiophile type sites review them. Not tech sites either... I read that and thought there is multiple reasons why it may sound that way...tips, insertion, etc etc. I am looking forward to checking these out and I cannot imagine Technics would downgrade the SQ or ANC.


----------



## Ceeluh7

jant71 said:


> November 5th a big day in Japanese TWS for releases. The Victor and AT are dropping as is this...
> 
> https://aviot.jp/product/te-bd21j#te-bd21j-ltd
> Upgraded the Knowles drivers and dynamic, Snapdragon Sound capable, aptX voice, ambient, multipoint, in ear detection, app. Not an ANC model though. ~$150 US before shipping.


I saw this set on Amazon. I was trying to find reviews. I settled for Japanese YouTube reviews lol. I had to keep translating to see what anyone thought of them.. Ha. Ya I didn't learn much except that maybe these sound slightly better than a previous set by the company


----------



## jant71 (Oct 28, 2021)

helmutcheese said:


>



Warm and not so clear on the sound??? Didn't they promise audiophile sound? They have no other features except playing sound and taking calls.



Ceeluh7 said:


> I saw this set on Amazon. I was trying to find reviews. I settled for Japanese YouTube reviews lol. I had to keep translating to see what anyone thought of them.. Ha. Ya I didn't learn much except that maybe these sound slightly better than a previous set by the company


Third version of the triple hybrid for Aviot. Those on Amazon would be the last version which was a bit better than the first version.

Not sure if a search will show it but someone in this thread bought the first version and really liked the sound.
edit: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/goi...e-we-there-yet.861024/page-1668#post-15813506


----------



## bladefd

Tommy C said:


> found this for you.


Whoa, 7hrs battery life.. I wonder if that's with LDAC on or off. The review isn't clear.


----------



## jant71 (Oct 28, 2021)

bladefd said:


> Whoa, 7hrs battery life.. I wonder if that's with LDAC on or off. The review isn't clear.


Listed 7 hours is AAC with ANC on.


----------



## TK33

Just got my Pixel 6 today and the first thing I did was pair my B&W PI7s just to see if aptX HD works and it does! Looks like the new Tensor chip does indeed support aptX HD and a Qualcomm chip is not necessary, which is good news to me.  Just sharing in case anyone is wondering if aptX HD is supported on the new Pixel phones.


----------



## Tommy C

bladefd said:


> Whoa, 7hrs battery life.. I wonder if that's with LDAC on or off. The review isn't clear.



I'm suspecting LDAC off, but just a wild guess.


----------



## dweaver

Thanks for the review link. Not sure I trust the details but any info is worth while .

Found a Canadian reseller for them, selling the AZ60 for $299. So tempting but I need to wait... LOL.

https://musicredone.com/products/technics-eah-az60ek-true-wireless-earbuds-black?


----------



## Tommy C

dweaver said:


> Thanks for the review link. Not sure I trust the details but any info is worth while .
> 
> Found a Canadian reseller for them, selling the AZ60 for $299. So tempting but I need to wait... LOL.
> 
> https://musicredone.com/products/technics-eah-az60ek-true-wireless-earbuds-black?


Ouch. Steep price north of the border but I’m expecting it to go down like the AZ70. In fact I have a feeling that sound quality wise it’s not a huge leap in performance if any compared to the predecessor but what do I know. 
For me I would wait first to see some real impression and review wait for the price to come down before pulling the trigger but I’m bargain hunter like that. I don’t normally pay retail prices lol


----------



## dweaver

Lol me neither. Hoping Visions brings them in and then just wait till they go on sale around Chstmas or Boxing day .


----------



## Tommy C

dweaver said:


> Lol me neither. Hoping Visions brings them in and then just wait till they go on sale around Chstmas or Boxing day .


IIRC the AZ70 were launched at $329 but they weren’t moving many and quickly dropped the price. I’m predicting a same path here with the new model. Time will tell I suppose.


----------



## dweaver

True, hopefully they don't just drop them as a brand...


----------



## jwong

I need something with a decent ambient mode with my top priority being comfort, followed by sound. Unfortunately I know comfort is pretty much impossible to judge without having the buds in hand. Some I'm looking at with current best pricing I've found (including tax):

$63 - Comfobuds Pro
$70 - Colorbuds 2
$108 - Galaxy Buds2
$130 - Galaxy Buds Pro
$183 - Liberty 3 Pro

Deep insertions irritate my ear canals. The Comfobuds Pro look like the least likely to do that and are cheap, but probably the most likely to fall out if I'm out hiking. The L3P looks the most customizable with the ear wings, etc., but is on the top edge of what I'd be willing to pay. For comfort reference I found the Spunky Beat pretty comfortable, the Onyx Ace fall out of my ears too easily, the Tranya B530 are a bit chunky but just passable. What say you vastly experienced with TWS of these options (or others)?


----------



## Tommy C (Oct 28, 2021)

jwong said:


> I need something with a decent ambient mode with my top priority being comfort, followed by sound. Unfortunately I know comfort is pretty much impossible to judge without having the buds in hand. Some I'm looking at with current best pricing I've found (including tax):
> 
> $63 - Comfobuds Pro
> $70 - Colorbuds 2
> ...



If you don’t mind the stem style Comfobuds Pro it’s a no brainer for a superb value proposition. Just make sure you get the Aurora Blue edition which comes with the eq pre-sets.
The ambient plus the shallow fit make the ambient superb and super comfortable and you’re definitely not sacrificing sound quality.

Full disclosure: I don’t have any experience with the the rest of the TWS that you have listed but love the Comfobuds Pro.
I had the Liberty 2 Pro+ and while the Ambient was natural it was underwhelming and weak and based on reviews it seems to carry to the Liberty 3 Pro.


----------



## dweaver

jwong said:


> I need something with a decent ambient mode with my top priority being comfort, followed by sound. Unfortunately I know comfort is pretty much impossible to judge without having the buds in hand. Some I'm looking at with current best pricing I've found (including tax):
> 
> $63 - Comfobuds Pro
> $70 - Colorbuds 2
> ...


I have the GBuds Pro and they are comfy and sound good to me. But the stock tips are not great so you might find yourself having to buy or use other tips. I am using Sennheiser CX/MTW2 tips which work great but will add another $15 to the cost.


----------



## bladefd

dweaver said:


> I have the GBuds Pro and they are comfy and sound good to me. But the stock tips are not great so you might find yourself having to buy or use other tips. I am using Sennheiser CX/MTW2 tips which work great but will add another $15 to the cost.


The benefit of buying tips is that they will work for multiple years across multiple TWS. If you like them, you won't need to worry about fitting on any future TWS.

Although, some rare TWS are picky about tips. I think most will be okay with universal tips though


----------



## jwong

Tommy C said:


> If you don’t mind the stem style Comfobuds Pro it’s a no brainer for a superb value proposition. Just make sure you get the Aurora Blue edition which comes with the eq pre-sets.
> The ambient plus the shallow fit make the ambient superb and super comfortable and you’re definitely not sacrificing sound quality.
> 
> Full disclosure: I don’t have any experience with the the rest of the TWS that you have listed but love the Comfobuds Pro.
> I had the Liberty 2 Pro+ and while the Ambient was natural it was underwhelming and weak and based on reviews it seems to carry to the Liberty 3 Pro.


No problems with them falling out easily?


----------



## Tommy C

jwong said:


> No problems with them falling out easily?


Not at all. Although shallow but very secure fit but this is highly dependent on the shape of your ears. 
The stock tips work for me. Tried some other tips that I have here but went back to the stock tips as they work for me just fine while maintaining the sound quality.


----------



## Juturna

Tommy C said:


> Not at all. Although shallow but very secure fit but this is highly dependent on the shape of your ears.
> The stock tips work for me. Tried some other tips that I have here but went back to the stock tips as they work for me just fine while maintaining the sound quality.


I'm thinking about picking them up from Amazon based on what you mentioned, because I definitely enjoy a more neutral sound, but I already have some good earbuds in the Sennheiser MTW2's and Devialet Geminis, but I'm having some huge fit issues with the Devialet Geminis (plus i'm not huge on their midrange and treble) to the point of actual chafing on my tragus, and the Sennheisers are pretty poor with calls and can sound a touch anemic at times and the low-end is a bit disappointing.

Only thing is that I find that the shallow eartips that i've seen the comfobuds use tend to not isolate in my ears that well.


----------



## helmutcheese

Tommy C said:


> I'm suspecting LDAC off, bu





Tommy C said:


> I'm suspecting LDAC off, but just a wild guess.




Battery life​Depending on which codec is active, the* EAH-AZ60s* run for between 7.5 hours (AAC and ANC off) or *4.5 hours (LDAC and ANC on)*. The charging case extends playback to a maximum of 25 hours when AAC is used and noise cancellation is disabled. Thanks to the fast charging option, 15 minutes of power is enough for up to 80 minutes of additional playing time. If the earbuds and the charging case are charged at the same time, this takes approx. 3.5 hours.


----------



## tiagopinto

jant71 said:


> Not that the buds are anything good but this design is pretty cool...
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Interesting design, never mind the buds. But I wonder about the resistance and durability of the hinges and if they would endure the “in and out of pocket” over time. As much as it may be a different and interesting design, maybe useful as a selling point, as I’m taking your word about their foul sound quality, it shouldn’t be like this. 

A less-than-us informed person, which is 99% of the people, will maybe pick this up “because the case is nice”. But, to me, it’s what’s inside that’s most important. A sturdy case with a good lighting scheme, small enough to fit your pocket and Qi charging is very welcome. 

Otherwise just stick to developing the bluetooth stability and quality and ensure the amp/crossover/drivers are well constructed and implemented. Then you have to worry about fit, battery life and app. TWS is not easy and we’re the guinea pigs in the lab. 

It all comes down to sound quality. That’s what matters most, to me.


----------



## tiagopinto (Oct 29, 2021)

nijfi said:


> Can firmware updates on TWS really alter sound quality?



Most definitely!

Edit: obviously hardware can’t be changed, so if the quality of the components wasn’t up to par to start with, forget it. There’s only so much you can do to alter the firmware. But if the implementation was correct enough, everything from timbre to tonality all the way to clarity, imaging and separation can be addressed. Ultimately correcting what should’ve been done in the first place.


----------



## Tommy C (Oct 29, 2021)

Juturna said:


> I'm thinking about picking them up from Amazon based on what you mentioned, because I definitely enjoy a more neutral sound, but I already have some good earbuds in the Sennheiser MTW2's and Devialet Geminis, but I'm having some huge fit issues with the Devialet Geminis (plus i'm not huge on their midrange and treble) to the point of actual chafing on my tragus, and the Sennheisers are pretty poor with calls and can sound a touch anemic at times and the low-end is a bit disappointing.
> 
> Only thing is that I find that the shallow eartips that i've seen the comfobuds use tend to not isolate in my ears that well.


The Comfobuds Pro isolation with the tips won’t create a tight seal but it’s by design since their core is oval shape but you can fit other tips too. It’s one of them TWS that don’t require super seal.


----------



## Hansoline

Hello all 
I have the Anbes 359 and it is slowly falling apart. Is there a newer/ better version with such a small size, so it doesn't stick out of the ear that much? Maybe a newer Model or another equivalent with better sound?


----------



## nijfi

tiagopinto said:


> Most definitely!
> 
> Edit: obviously hardware can’t be changed, so if the quality of the components wasn’t up to par to start with, forget it. There’s only so much you can do to alter the firmware. But if the implementation was correct enough, everything from timbre to tonality all the way to clarity, imaging and separation can be addressed. Ultimately correcting what should’ve been done in the first place.


Ok, thanks. So there might be hope that the LP3'S can have that harsh treble toned down then? I've EQ'ed the worst of it away, but it's still not ideal.


----------



## tiagopinto

jant71 said:


> Speaking of Soundpeats, for the H2 they went stem...
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I always liked the AT sound, so this is interesting (also out are the M50xBT2, cool)


----------



## TooFrank

erockg said:


> I did and I loved them.  I wound up returning due to my own issues with over ear headphones.  Sometimes they just do not feel comfortable.  That said, I never tried a wired connection.  If you get them, get a deal.  They're not worth full price.  Call B&O.  They're very responsive on the phone.  Maybe they can help.





diimaan said:


> Just a quick question for you @erockg !~I believe you have an H95 from B&O!
> I am seriously considering replacing my B&O Portal with H95, one thing I want to know is, does H95 supports passive audio with USB-C - USB-A connection? I see a lot of mixed and vague answers on this topic!


FWIW: I own the H95 and mostly use the BT. However, just tried to connect the USB-C (H95) to the USB-A (iMac). And it works fine, when the H95 are turned on.


----------



## jant71

nijfi said:


> Ok, thanks. So there might be hope that the LP3'S can have that harsh treble toned down then? I've EQ'ed the worst of it away, but it's still not ideal.




Of course at the price they don't have the armature custom tuned and they are probably off the shelf and don't have the correct dampening. The answer may just be to pull off the screen and insert some foams which they sell or just change the screen with Hifiman or others for sale after doing the homework since there will be more transparent and brighter ones and some that filter out treble. Or just try to cut squares from a tea bag and put that over the bore and put the tip on. Or spread out some material from a cotton ball and put inside the tip.

Should be able to fix these in like 5 minutes.


----------



## Ceeluh7

jant71 said:


> Of course at the price they don't have the armature custom tuned and they are probably off the shelf and don't have the correct dampening. The answer may just be to pull off the screen and insert some foams which they sell or just change the screen with Hifiman or others for sale after doing the homework since there will be more transparent and brighter ones and some that filter out treble. Or just try to cut squares from a tea bag and put that over the bore and put the tip on. Or spread out some material from a cotton ball and put inside the tip.
> 
> Should be able to fix these in like 5 minutes.


I tried micro-pore tape when I first got them to hopefully help and it did not at all. The only thing I could do was eq the frequency 6k and above down quite alot to tame the tizzy, metallic sheen off of the treble. I am so puzzled how a company would let these out the door with default tuning the way they did. With that being said... I did swap tips to a pair of tfz no. 3 tips which seem to help alot, eq'd the hell out of them. Dude, these drivers are very capable drivers that sound fan-freaking-tastic when eq'd right. Not kidding at all, mine sound great. The drivers can handle quite a bit of manual tuning thru eq.


----------



## Ceeluh7

Have any of you guys had a chance to listen to the AG Tws04k? I keep passing on them. I like the fit of the Pureplay z3 and these have the identicle shell of those so they would likely fit me good but I was wondering if anyone has actually listened to them


----------



## jant71 (Oct 29, 2021)

Ceeluh7 said:


> I tried micro-pore tape when I first got them to hopefully help and it did not at all. The only thing I could do was eq the frequency 6k and above down quite alot to tame the tizzy, metallic sheen off of the treble. I am so puzzled how a company would let these out the door with default tuning the way they did. With that being said... I did swap tips to a pair of tfz no. 3 tips which seem to help alot, eq'd the hell out of them. Dude, these drivers are very capable drivers that sound fan-freaking-tastic when eq'd right. Not kidding at all, mine sound great. The drivers can handle quite a bit of manual tuning thru eq.


They are not expensive so it is not horrible they didn't totally tune them right. But with armatures it is most likely just dampening them correctly which any one can do if they feel the need. I am more of a golden ears but for me micropore tape is not any good for tuning. Maybe for dynamic driver treble if you are not that discerning. Save it for bandaging the boo-boos.


----------



## Ceeluh7

jant71 said:


> They are not expensive so it is not horrible they didn't totally tune them right. But with armatures it is most likely just dampening them correctly which any one can do if they feel the need. I am more of a golden ears but for me micropore tape is not any good for tuning. Maybe for dynamic driver treble if you are not that discerning. Save it for bandaging the boo-boos.


I hear you... I didn't have the heart to pull the grills off at the time so... Micro-pore tape, tips, eq. That's OK because you can eq them to decent


----------



## quick1 (Oct 29, 2021)

dweaver said:


> I have the GBuds Pro and they are comfy and sound good to me. But the stock tips are not great so you might find yourself having to buy or use other tips. I am using Sennheiser CX/MTW2 tips which work great but will add another $15 to the cost.


Call it 10.00 Shipped here in the US https://en-us.sennheiser.com/silicone-ear-adapter-5-pairs

I used the G Buds Pro on a call for the first time and the clarity was pretty damn good. The overall sound when listening to music leaves me wanting more bass and more expansion/ separation. I've tried several different tips to improve the sound and so far the best have been the SednaEarfit Crystals. To me seems like everything is better, clearer, more immediate, less muddy, except for the bass. I listen to classic to hard rock/ metal so your experience may vary. The fitment is certainly better but I tried a couple of different sizes of the Crystals to get there.

Anybody know if there's a good EQ the G Buds Pro? I'm streaming music from Tidal.


----------



## quick1

Juturna said:


> I'm thinking about picking them up from Amazon based on what you mentioned, because I definitely enjoy a more neutral sound, but I already have some good earbuds in the Sennheiser MTW2's and Devialet Geminis, but I'm having some huge fit issues with the Devialet Geminis (plus i'm not huge on their midrange and treble)


What specifically don't you like about the Devialet Geminis midrange and treble?


----------



## jant71 (Oct 29, 2021)

quick1 said:


> What specifically don't you like about the Devialet Geminis midrange and treble?


No offense to them but if they talk about huge having fit issues there you can't take much stock in sound impressions with a bad fit. 



Ceeluh7 said:


> I hear you... I didn't have the heart to pull the grills off at the time so... Micro-pore tape, tips, eq. That's OK because you can eq them to decent


You got all the other stuff people try that is sometimes around the house. Cotton(from ball or swab), pantyhose, teabag or coffee filters, old t-shirt, earbud foam, etc. Those mostly just go in the tip or under it and over the bore. Some trial and error and you can nail it!


----------



## Ceeluh7

jant71 said:


> No offense to them but if they talk about huge having fit issues there you can't take much stock in sound impressions with a bad fit.
> 
> 
> You got all the other stuff people try that is sometimes around the house. Cotton(from ball or swab), pantyhose, teabag or coffee filters, old t-shirt, earbud foam, etc. Those mostly just go in the tip or under it and over the bore. Some trial and error and you can nail it!


I've done the cotton ball a few times, rolled up cotton, kinda like the fdx1. Thanx for the other ideas man...


----------



## Tommy C

jant71 said:


> They are not expensive so it is not horrible they didn't totally tune them right. But with armatures it is most likely just dampening them correctly which any one can do if they feel the need. I am more of a golden ears but for me micropore tape is not any good for tuning. Maybe for dynamic driver treble if you are not that discerning. Save it for bandaging the boo-boos.



Personally, I feel like the Soundcore tuning is lacking. The moment I heard the HearID results and the Soundcore recommended eq on the L2P+I was ready submit my return request.  It was so bad it's criminal. I played around with them for 3 weeks and reached to a point they sounded really nice but nothing that wow'ed me or made keep them.
I also don't feel like messing around with a brand new product and while they aren't expensive they also aren't budget set of TWS so I'm expecting them to sound good out of the box really, especially when it comes to a flagship model.


----------



## Ceeluh7

Tommy C said:


> Personally, I feel like the Soundcore tuning is lacking. The moment I heard the HearID results and the Soundcore recommended eq on the L2P+I was ready submit my return request.  It was so bad it's criminal. I played around with them for 3 weeks and reached to a point they sounded really nice but nothing that wow'ed me or made keep them.
> I also don't feel like messing around with a brand new product and while they aren't expensive they also aren't budget set of TWS so I'm expecting them to sound good out of the box really, especially when it comes to a flagship model.


I agree with you about a 100 plus set of tws with tuning that is just awful. They must be eq'd... But not just a few db's here or there... No no no... They have to be eq'd massively. I do feel though that these drivers are very capable of handling any eq you go with + or - dB  as much you want and the drivers from what I've heard do not distort or become grainy. I really have gotten my set to a nice place. The thing I cannot stand is the freaking latency on these thru ldac. Not very good, at least with youtube.


----------



## erockg (Oct 29, 2021)

Tommy C said:


> Personally, I feel like the Soundcore tuning is lacking. The moment I heard the HearID results and the Soundcore recommended eq on the L2P+I was ready submit my return request.  It was so bad it's criminal. I played around with them for 3 weeks and reached to a point they sounded really nice but nothing that wow'ed me or made keep them.
> I also don't feel like messing around with a brand new product and while they aren't expensive they also aren't budget set of TWS so I'm expecting them to sound good out of the box really, especially when it comes to a flagship model.


I am listening to the LP3 Pros right now.  Exchanged the Jabra Elite 7 Pros for them.  Got tired of waiting for Jabra support.  I have to admit, the sound on these things blows away the Jabra.  Soundstage is very wide.  Bass has bunch.  I ran through the HearID process and for me it made a difference.  I'll still mess around with EQ.  I put the buds on the Surround Sound setting while gaming and it was pretty cool.  There are some bugs with bluetooth where it randomly skips a beat.  Only happened a few times.  So maybe it's not really a bug yet.  Multipoint works perfectly, unless my Mac decided that it needs to open iTunes instead of answering the call on my iPhone, but this has happened with multipoint buds!  Fit is way better than the last gen IMO.  I like the touch pads over the buttons.  The buds are smaller than the last gen and the case is smaller.  The case feels cheap yet incredibly light.  ANC is surprisingly good.  Better than the Jabra Elite 7s I just returned by far.  These things are incredibly customizable.  Love it.  Still trying to find the right tips.  Posting some pics of the LP3 Pros with some other TWS for size comparison.  I haven't pitted them against my arsenal yet.  Just enjoying them.  P.S. I'm on an iPhone, I don't use LDAC or APTX... yet.


----------



## Tommy C

Ceeluh7 said:


> I agree with you about a 100 plus set of tws with tuning that is just awful. They must be eq'd... But not just a few db's here or there... No no no... They have to be eq'd massively. I do feel though that these drivers are very capable of handling any eq you go with + or - dB  as much you want and the drivers from what I've heard do not distort or become grainy. I really have gotten my set to a nice place. The thing I cannot stand is the freaking latency on these thru ldac. Not very good, at least with youtube.



Agreed. The hardware is very capable on the previous gen and I’m sure it’s even more capable with the L3P. 
It’s great that there many ways to customize the sound and I do believe i could bring the L3P (if I get them) to place that I like sound wise. 
My biggest issues with the L2P+ was that the sound just wasn’t good enough. The ambient mode was weak and the features in the app were kind of gimmicky, which I don’t although as long as it makes them sound amazing but for me it wasn’t. 
However it looks like many known YouTubers like that although I’m starting to doubt this whole thing. Some around here like them and some don’t.


----------



## Ceeluh7

erockg said:


> I am listening to the LP3 Pros right now.  Exchanged the Jabra Elite 7 Pros for them.  Got tired of waiting for Jabra support.  I have to admit, the sound on these things blows away the Jabra.  Soundstage is very wide.  Bass has bunch.  I ran through the HearID process and for me it made a difference.  I'll still mess around with EQ.  I put the buds on the Surround Sound setting while gaming and it was pretty cool.  There are some bugs with bluetooth where it randomly skips a beat.  Only happened a few times.  So maybe it's not really a bug yet.  Multipoint works perfectly, unless my Mac decided that it needs to open iTunes instead of answering the call on my iPhone, but this has happened with multipoint buds!  Fit is way better than the last gen IMO.  I like the touch pads over the buttons.  The buds are smaller than the last gen and the case is smaller.  The case feels cheap yet incredibly light.  ANC is surprisingly good.  Better than the Jabra Elite 7s I just returned by far.  These things are incredibly customizable.  Love it.  Still trying to find the right tips.  Posting some pics of the LP3 Pros with some other TWS for size comparison.  I haven't pitted them against my arsenal yet.  Just enjoying them.  P.S. I'm on an iPhone, I don't use LDAC or APTX... yet.


I was able to find some tips which actually penetrate my ears and to me that helped quite a bit. Truthfully I have eq'd them to my liking and they really do blow the doors off of quite a few other sets. Clarity is really great and yes the bass is deep and controlled for the most part without impeding on the lower mids. Honestly the AAC sounds good with the L3P but it certainly does add to the overall resolution thru ldac. It seems latency gets slightly better with AAC but I can't stand having to switch between the two when I want to watch a video. This could use a game mode for sure. I was absolutely despising these for a week and a half and then I just went crazy with the EQ & hear I'd and I am so very impressed. Now they cant touch imo the Lypertek Z7 in SQ but with all the features and fit... Much betternvalue


----------



## Tommy C

erockg said:


> I am listening to the LP3 Pros right now.  Exchanged the Jabra Elite 7 Pros for them.  Got tired of waiting for Jabra support.  I have to admit, the sound on these things blows away the Jabra.  Soundstage is very wide.  Bass has bunch.  I ran through the HearID process and for me it made a difference.  I'll still mess around with EQ.  I put the buds on the Surround Sound setting while gaming and it was pretty cool.  There are some bugs with bluetooth where it randomly skips a beat.  Only happened a few times.  So maybe it's not really a bug yet.  Multipoint works perfectly, unless my Mac decided that it needs to open iTunes instead of answering the call on my iPhone, but this has happened with multipoint buds!  Fit is way better than the last gen IMO.  I like the touch pads over the buttons.  The buds are smaller than the last gen and the case is smaller.  The case feels cheap yet incredibly light.  ANC is surprisingly good.  Better than the Jabra Elite 7s I just returned by far.  These things are incredibly customizable.  Love it.  Still trying to find the right tips.  Posting some pics of the LP3 Pros with some other TWS for size comparison.  I haven't pitted them against my arsenal yet.  Just enjoying them.  P.S. I'm on an iPhone, I don't use LDAC or APTX... yet.


That’s good to know. Thanks!


----------



## Tommy C

Ceeluh7 said:


> I was able to find some tips which actually penetrate my ears and to me that helped quite a bit. Truthfully I have eq'd them to my liking and they really do blow the doors off of quite a few other sets. Clarity is really great and yes the bass is deep and controlled for the most part without impeding on the lower mids. Honestly the AAC sounds good with the L3P but it certainly does add to the overall resolution thru ldac. It seems latency gets slightly better with AAC but I can't stand having to switch between the two when I want to watch a video. This could use a game mode for sure. I was absolutely despising these for a week and a half and then I just went crazy with the EQ & hear I'd and I am so very impressed. Now they cant touch imo the Lypertek Z7 in SQ but with all the features and fit... Much betternvalue



How’s their ambient mode? Do you find it good enough? The L2P+ had a natural ambient mode. I was able to carry a conversation at home when the music was paused but outdoors or to hear noses that were further away it was weak and useless.


----------



## Ceeluh7

Tommy C said:


> Agreed. The hardware is very capable on the previous gen and I’m sure it’s even more capable with the L3P.
> It’s great that there many ways to customize the sound and I do believe i could bring the L3P (if I get them) to place that I like sound wise.
> My biggest issues with the L2P+ was that the sound just wasn’t good enough. The ambient mode was weak and the features in the app were kind of gimmicky, which I don’t although as long as it makes them sound amazing but for me it wasn’t.
> However it looks like many known YouTubers like that although I’m starting to doubt this whole thing. Some around here like them and some don’t.


Tommy man, I don't think I'll ever listen to these YouTube hype stars again. Unless they went through all the crap I had to go through to get these good... Which... None of them ever mentioned that and trust me, I watched them all. How in thee crap did any of them actually believe these were a good sounding set. I owned the l2p+ as well and these sound very reminiscent of those out of the box, the only difference is that after playing with the EQ these are way more capable with more control, clarity & resolution... My opinion. I get it if you just strayed away from this set though.


----------



## Ceeluh7

Tommy C said:


> How’s their ambient mode? Do you find it good enough? The L2P+ had a natural ambient mode. I was able to carry a conversation at home when the music was paused but outdoors or to hear noses that were further away it was weak and useless.


I don't feel it's very good man. My buds pro are much better. Not the best ambient mode


----------



## erockg

Ceeluh7 said:


> I was able to find some tips which actually penetrate my ears and to me that helped quite a bit. Truthfully I have eq'd them to my liking and they really do blow the doors off of quite a few other sets. Clarity is really great and yes the bass is deep and controlled for the most part without impeding on the lower mids. Honestly the AAC sounds good with the L3P but it certainly does add to the overall resolution thru ldac. It seems latency gets slightly better with AAC but I can't stand having to switch between the two when I want to watch a video. This could use a game mode for sure. I was absolutely despising these for a week and a half and then I just went crazy with the EQ & hear I'd and I am so very impressed. Now they cant touch imo the Lypertek Z7 in SQ but with all the features and fit... Much betternvalue


I used the L3Ps for a couple shows on an iPad last night.  No issues with latency.  But then again, it was late, maybe I didn't notice.  Pretty immersive watching Invasion and Foundation.  Granted, most streaming apps auto-correct latency.  

I had those Z7s and truly did love the sound.  Just didn't like the fit.  But man, the battery life in both the buds and case is incredible too. 

A while back I theorized that they were a clone of the Noble Falcon Pro buds, which I do like the tuning better on.  If you look at the driver builds, they are identical with a different top half of a shell.  Itching to pick up those FoKus buds.


----------



## Ceeluh7

erockg said:


> I used the L3Ps for a couple shows on an iPad last night.  No issues with latency.  But then again, it was late, maybe I didn't notice.  Pretty immersive watching Invasion and Foundation.  Granted, most streaming apps auto-correct latency.
> 
> I had those Z7s and truly did love the sound.  Just didn't like the fit.  But man, the battery life in both the buds and case is incredible too.
> 
> A while back I theorized that they were a clone of the Noble Falcon Pro buds, which I do like the tuning better on.  If you look at the driver builds, they are identical with a different top half of a shell.  Itching to pick up those FoKus buds.


Dude I did notice that about the falcon pro and the Z7 and was searching everywhere for some insight about the two sets. I didn't get the falcon pro just because I was affeaid I was going to get the same sound. As far as fit, for me they fit amazingly, really my best fitting set sealing off similar sound than most of my anc sets.... What I don't like is the button for control, it's just not that sensitive and these things make me look like I have two huge bolts sticking out of my ears but... That's the price for sound quality I guess. I can't wait to see what future tws gives us the closest to perfect package. Anyways, that is funny about your theory. It seems lypertek shares shells not just with the Z7 but the Z3 as well with other sets.


----------



## Kathiravan JLR

Xm3 has very goo


ubertriad said:


> How loud is the Sony WF1000XM3 compared to the Sennheiser MTW?
> 
> I found the Sennheisers to be very limited in max volume.


Xm3 has pretty nice headroom for the volume.. that too with ANC on even while travelling the 60-70 percent volume is pretty good for me


----------



## Caipirina

Hansoline said:


> Hello all
> I have the Anbes 359 and it is slowly falling apart. Is there a newer/ better version with such a small size, so it doesn't stick out of the ear that much? Maybe a newer Model or another equivalent with better sound?


Funny, I was JUST thinking about those today, they were my first 'chi-fi' budget TWS pair and I still love them ... I never really found such a low profile set in that price range again .. by now I am just happy with my Bose QC Earbuds which I use also for running ... 

The original Anbes359 are famously not available anymore ... and not many others in this shape were made .. just checking on one other model .. SSK something ... 
Ah, SSK BT03  ... but this is also from 2 years ago, might be equally hard to find ...


----------



## TYATYA

HaliHarry said:


> It's so nice for me !!!


Listening AZ70 for most 2 years and continue looking for AZ80. Then Technics realse AZ60 😀


----------



## webvan

The Anbes/SSK...a blast from the past ! Must admit I'd completely forgotten about these  I owned the SSKs briefly but they were too small for my ears and they kept popping out. I never really got the whole "smallest is better" as long as they're reasonably flush with the ears, like the Echobuds v1 or the Earfun Free Pro.

I don't miss the L3Ps at all, the last time I used them was for running and it was the worst experience I've ever had with TWS with all the auto-pressing after 30' of running/sweating. Somehow they did a reasonable job with ANC On to reduce the "runner's thud". Soundwise, great soundstage but I had that strange gap between sub-bass and bass and there was this "harshness" I never managed to get rid of. The L2Ps don't have it as far as I can tell.

There was a comment about the "Bluetooth Bugs" where the sound cut in and out and yes I got these too, pretty frequently actually and not only when it was connected to two devices at the same time.


----------



## Caipirina

webvan said:


> The Anbes/SSK...a blast from the past ! Must admit I'd completely forgotten about these  I owned the SSKs briefly but they were too small for my ears and they kept popping out. I never really got the whole "smallest is better" as long as they're reasonably flush with the ears, like the Echobuds v1 or the Earfun Free Pro.
> 
> I don't miss the L3Ps at all, the last time I used them was for running and it was the worst experience I've ever had with TWS with all the auto-pressing after 30' of running/sweating. Somehow they did a reasonable job with ANC On to reduce the "runner's thud". Soundwise, great soundstage but I had that strange gap between sub-bass and bass and there was this "harshness" I never managed to get rid of. The L2Ps don't have it as far as I can tell.
> 
> There was a comment about the "Bluetooth Bugs" where the sound cut in and out and yes I got these too, pretty frequently actually and not only when it was connected to two devices at the same time.


saving me money again  Thanks!


----------



## webvan

Sure ! Glad you're getting along well with the Bose QC, I quite liked them I must say but found them a bit big and couldn't really justify their price vs my trusty Echobuds v1 for ANC. BTW did you ever get a hold of the Echobuds v1 ?

On top of their overall isolation and form factor what I like about them is that when you switch to transparent mode you can choose to automatically have the music paused, great in a shop as simply going to Transparent without stopping the music isn't very helpful to have a conversation! The Jabra 65s had that, the 75s too but it was buggy if memory serves.


----------



## adnhussn

webvan said:


> The Anbes/SSK...a blast from the past ! Must admit I'd completely forgotten about these  I owned the SSKs briefly but they were too small for my ears and they kept popping out. I never really got the whole "smallest is better" as long as they're reasonably flush with the ears, like the Echobuds v1 or the Earfun Free Pro.
> 
> I don't miss the L3Ps at all, the last time I used them was for running and it was the worst experience I've ever had with TWS with all the auto-pressing after 30' of running/sweating. Somehow they did a reasonable job with ANC On to reduce the "runner's thud". Soundwise, great soundstage but I had that strange gap between sub-bass and bass and there was this "harshness" I never managed to get rid of. The L2Ps don't have it as far as I can tell.
> 
> There was a comment about the "Bluetooth Bugs" where the sound cut in and out and yes I got these too, pretty frequently actually and not only when it was connected to two devices at the same time.


Thought I was growing to love my L3P after using the Aregina EQ but there's still that harshness and thinness. I'm experiencing the same issue – the sound cuts out for 2 seconds pretty frequently, even after a reset. Another pet peeve - there's a 50/50 chance one of the buds won't turn off in the case, and I don't want to deal with having to manually adjust and wait for them to disconnect every time I put them back in.


----------



## Ceeluh7

adnhussn said:


> Thought I was growing to love my L3P after using the Aregina EQ but there's still that harshness and thinness. I'm experiencing the same issue – the sound cuts out for 2 seconds pretty frequently, even after a reset. Another pet peeve - there's a 50/50 chance one of the buds won't turn off in the case, and I don't want to deal with having to manually adjust and wait for them to disconnect every time I put them back in.


I get the right bud not sitting perfect in the case thing as well. I used that eq as well, after hear if and then I moved the EQ around from there. I will say that they are much much better now but yes, still thin in certain areas. Clarity and resolution, staging are great, bass is great, Soundstage is above average but they are thin.


----------



## adnhussn

Ceeluh7 said:


> I get the right bud not sitting perfect in the case thing as well. I used that eq as well, after hear if and then I moved the EQ around from there. I will say that they are much much better now but yes, still thin in certain areas. Clarity and resolution, staging are great, bass is great, Soundstage is above average but they are thin.


Mind sharing your EQ settings?


----------



## karloil

My Tevi's right driver gave up on me 2 weeks before its warranty expires - my replacement is the new Z3. Great timing! 😄


----------



## Juturna (Oct 30, 2021)

jant71 said:


> No offense to them but if they talk about huge having fit issues there you can't take much stock in sound impressions with a bad fit.
> 
> 
> You got all the other stuff people try that is sometimes around the house. Cotton(from ball or swab), pantyhose, teabag or coffee filters, old t-shirt, earbud foam, etc. Those mostly just go in the tip or under it and over the bore. Some trial and error and you can nail it!


I don’t think that should be what the person takes note of either. I don’t mean fit as in “these don’t seal well/fall out of my ears” I mean fit issues as in that they hurt my ears because of the way they’re shaped. I still use them and can fit them well, they just kinda… hurt after awhile.



quick1 said:


> What specifically don't you like about the Devialet Geminis midrange and treble?


To me the midrange lacks a bit of clarity and it’s very hard to get vocals to sound full-bodied even when EQ:ing them in the app.

The treble also gives me a lot of sibilance and is a little too harsh if I listen to it on the volume levels I prefer. If I EQ it up a bit to get some more sparkle it completely obliterates my ears.

With that said I do like them for some genres of music more than my other earbuds. Really nice with some electronic music but less nice with some more acoustic or vocal-based music. Honestly still good all around, just not perfect when it comes to some aspects of the sound for my taste.


----------



## Ceeluh7

adnhussn said:


> Mind sharing your EQ settings?


Honestly it wouldn't be too much good to you because I applied my eq after the Hear ID. I can tell you that for me... Personally... I added alot of db's (4-5) to 800hz and a slight bump to 400hz (2-3). I dropped 1.6 a hair and then gave 3.2hz a 4-5 dB bump. Next I dropped everything at 6.4 and higher way way down. As far as the low end... Put it where you like it as it doesn't impede much on the rest of the spectrum. Sorry this is kind of vague but hear id kind of sculpts things before you eq them... So basically take this all with a grain of salt.


----------



## nijfi

I've just had another good result with the LP3's.

After more tip fiddling, I thought I should fiddle with those wings as well after all. The already fitted ones were ok, but when I tried my OEM memory foam tips before, they wouldn't stay in ears. I thought it was the short stem on the LP3'S. But now I'm finding that the largest wingtip locks them in an absolute treat! I push the memory foam buds right down on the stem and now they stay in fine.

Had a play with both balanced and bass tips from my NF Audio's and a size up on the stock LP3 tips. Also experimented with tea bags, lol, but that appeared to just muddy what was a clean bass without particularly taming the harsh trebles.

So my memory foam tips, with large wing tips have me pretty happy for now. Getting a little bit of discomfort though from my memory foam tips appearing not to be quite thick enough, so the hard inner rings can touch my ear at times. Is there a particular Comply version that will tame trebles without 'enhancing' bass (that'll just muddy these LP3's up as the bass is already perfect in weight and tightness) that is worth paying the extra for?


----------



## Ceeluh7

nijfi said:


> I've just had another good result with the LP3's.
> 
> After more tip fiddling, I thought I should fiddle with those wings as well after all. The already fitted ones were ok, but when I tried my OEM memory foam tips before, they wouldn't stay in ears. I thought it was the short stem on the LP3'S. But now I'm finding that the largest wingtip locks them in an absolute treat! I push the memory foam buds right down on the stem and now they stay in fine.
> 
> ...


It may not suit you but I use the Tfz no. 3 tips (almost 100% on that.. Lol) on mine which push the tip just enough into the ear. I played with a few others and many work OK but they also have to sit in the case which seems to always be the struggle when tip changing tws. As far as memory foam, I wish I had an answer for you but I just don't get along well with memory foam.


----------



## nijfi

Ceeluh7 said:


> It may not suit you but I use the Tfz no. 3 tips (almost 100% on that.. Lol) on mine which push the tip just enough into the ear. I played with a few others and many work OK but they also have to sit in the case which seems to always be the struggle when tip changing tws. As far as memory foam, I wish I had an answer for you but I just don't get along well with memory foam.


Thanks, but unless I'm missing something, it doesn't seem like Tfz no. 3 tips alone are available?

Agreed on sitting in the case. The memory foam tips I have on at the mo just about sit in the case. Luckily they do fit, but not as easily as the stock ones.

How would something like spinfits adjust sound signature? I'veve never tried them. I'm keen for something that might help tame the treble harshness even further, yet without enchancing the bass.


----------



## adnhussn

Ceeluh7 said:


> Honestly it wouldn't be too much good to you because I applied my eq after the Hear ID. I can tell you that for me... Personally... I added alot of db's (4-5) to 800hz and a slight bump to 400hz (2-3). I dropped 1.6 a hair and then gave 3.2hz a 4-5 dB bump. Next I dropped everything at 6.4 and higher way way down. As far as the low end... Put it where you like it as it doesn't impede much on the rest of the spectrum. Sorry this is kind of vague but hear id kind of sculpts things before you eq them... So basically take this all with a grain of salt.


Appreciate the context. I was EQing straight from Custom mode rather than Hear ID -> Custom. I’ll try that next. Thanks!


----------



## Ceeluh7

nijfi said:


> Thanks, but unless I'm missing something, it doesn't seem like Tfz no. 3 tips alone are available?
> 
> Agreed on sitting in the case. The memory foam tips I have on at the mo just about sit in the case. Luckily they do fit, but not as easily as the stock ones.
> 
> How would something like spinfits adjust sound signature? I'veve never tried them. I'm keen for something that might help tame the treble harshness even further, yet without enchancing the bass.


Ya, I was just trying to give an example of tips that would work. To bring the treble down you the best you can do is eq these. IMO. Tips will help a bit but eq quenched it the most for me, unless anyone else has another idea.


----------



## Ceeluh7

adnhussn said:


> Appreciate the context. I was EQing straight from Custom mode rather than Hear ID -> Custom. I’ll try that next. Thanks!


It's worth it to try man. I like these alot after eqing them


----------



## VICosPhi

Technics AZ60 (Silver color only) showing in stock on Amazon US
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00HC6G0NG/ref=ppx_od_dt_b_asin_title_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1


----------



## dweaver

One guy got a pair of the AZ60 posted a teaser post and then took off... 

Hopefully he comes back and posts some impressions.


----------



## dweaver

Wanting something new but also on a tight budget I picked up a pair of Panasonic RP-HD610N today at a store clearing them out. They use an older BT stack and use Micro USB but aside from that they have LDAC, APTxHD and have decent ANC. The are also way more balanced sounding than my Sony WH-1000XM3 and they only cost $150Cad which is a good price. Not a TW but aside from the L3P and waiting for the AZ60 I am trying to ween off this train LOL. 

Should be good ear Muffs for the winter.

Surprised at the almost zero discussion of these on Head-fi. They actually sound pretty darn good so far.


----------



## quick1

quick1 said:


> Call it 10.00 Shipped here in the US https://en-us.sennheiser.com/silicone-ear-adapter-5-pairs
> 
> I used the G Buds Pro on a call for the first time and the clarity was pretty damn good. The overall sound when listening to music leaves me wanting more bass and more expansion/ separation. I've tried several different tips to improve the sound and so far the best have been the SednaEarfit Crystals. To me seems like everything is better, clearer, more immediate, less muddy, except for the bass. I listen to classic to hard rock/ metal so your experience may vary. The fitment is certainly better but I tried a couple of different sizes of the Crystals to get there.
> 
> Anybody know if there's a good EQ the G Buds Pro? I'm streaming music from Tidal.


Received the Sennheiser tips in medium and installed them on the G Bud Pro's but couldn't get them to seal, so the outcome was not good. I have ordered a large set. 
I did notice one thing compared to the SednaEarfit Crystal tips, the Sennheiser tips don't extend as far into the ear. The insertion depth is much closer to the original supplied Samsung tips.


----------



## quick1

dweaver said:


> Wanting something new but also on a tight budget I picked up a pair of Panasonic RP-HD610N today at a store clearing them out. They use an older BT stack and use Micro USB but aside from that they have LDAC, APTxHD and have decent ANC. The are also way more balanced sounding than my Sony WH-1000XM3 and they only cost $150Cad which is a good price. Not a TW but aside from the L3P and waiting for the AZ60 I am trying to ween off this train LOL.


I'm wondering if the ability to listen in LDAC will become the hot ticket with TWS.


----------



## dweaver

I have big lug holes so always start large .


----------



## dweaver

quick1 said:


> I'm wondering if the ability to listen in LDAC will become the hot ticket with TWS.


I am not as convinced of LDAC for TWS because of the communication between the 2 earphones. Its OK in a headphone because it just transmits all the data and then the headphone does the rest. It explains why you can get highest data transmission rates.

Sitting here watching sports listening to music and I really am digging these Panasonic's. They have good 3D imaging and I appreciate the more balanced signature.


----------



## darveniza

Not sure if anyone in the thread is a pixel 6 pro. I tried connecting the Sennheiser momentum 2 and it's not able to connect. I've tried all the other TWS that I have and they all work fine except that one. Not sure what's going on. If anyone has both of these devices can you share your experience?


----------



## Tommy C

dweaver said:


> I am not as convinced of LDAC for TWS because of the communication between the 2 earphones. Its OK in a headphone because it just transmits all the data and then the headphone does the rest. It explains why you can get highest data transmission rates.
> 
> Sitting here watching sports listening to music and I really am digging these Panasonic's. They have good 3D imaging and I appreciate the more balanced signature.


Nice! Where did you get them from?


----------



## dweaver

Tommy C said:


> Nice! Where did you get them from?


London Drugs, went in thinking I might buy a pair of ATHSR50BT which were sold out and saw this pair. Last ones in that store.

These have Buttons instead of a touch interface which I think I might actually prefer. Caught myself listening to several albums in their entirety because I was hearing more into my music than usual.  They have very good spacial queues and 3D qualities and the ANC is actually pretty good with 3 levels that have to be set manually.

Have to see how they handle wind and going the train but so far I am very happy with the purchase!


----------



## quick1 (Oct 31, 2021)

Devialet Gemini's were delivered today. None of the supplied ear tips worked for me. The large set sealed but the sides are very weak and kept allowing the bud to move away from where I wanted them positioned. Initial impressions were pretty bad until I pushed them in and held them in position. Damn things have some bass I just needed to find a set of tips that will work to let them shine. Since I have the SednaEarfit Crystal tips I gave them a shot. That did the trick, these things sounded better than the G Bud Pro's in damn near all areas. Then remembering these can use the aptX codec I switched that in the Developer Options. Oh yea, better clarity and more volume without distortion. I listened for maybe 45 minutes and the battery was already down from 100% to 85%, they be hungry. Using the LG G8 phone, LG 3D Surround on in sound options, LG EQ set to Normal, Devialet's EQ set to Dynamic. 

I decided to give a listen to the G Bud Pro's again to compare and now it seems like I can't get the original volume out of them that I once could. I switched the codec back but it didn't make a difference. Don't know what I did. Oop's


----------



## scubaphish

quick1 said:


> Devialet Gemini's were delivered today. None of the supplied ear tips worked for me. The large set sealed but the sides are very weak and kept allowing the bud to move away from where I wanted them positioned. Initial impressions were pretty bad until I pushed them in and held them in position. Damn things have some bass I just needed to find a set of tips that will work to let them shine. Since I have the SednaEarfit Crystal tips I gave them a shot. That did the trick, these things sounded better than the G Bud Pro's in damn near all areas. Then remembering these can use the aptX codec I switched that in the Developer Options. Oh yea, better clarity and more volume without distortion. I listened for maybe 45 minutes and the battery was already down from 100% to 85%, they be hungry. Using the LG G8 phone, LG 3D Surround on in sound options, LG EQ set to Normal, Devialet's EQ set to Dynamic.
> 
> I decided to give a listen to the G Bud Pro's again to compare and now it seems like I can't get the original volume out of them that I once could. I switched the codec back but it didn't make a difference. Don't know what I did. Oop's


Yeah, definitely power hungry. Get maybe 4-4.5 hours on AAC. Waiting for firmware release they say is coming to provide more usage time.


----------



## quick1

scubaphish said:


> Yeah, definitely power hungry. Get maybe 4-4.5 hours on AAC. Waiting for firmware release they say is coming to provide more usage time.


Definitely sounded better to me on aptX. The bass is there on songs that I thought were weak on the G Buds Pro.
I messed with the EQ on the Devialet app but for some reason my phones EQ overrides any app's EQ.


----------



## Juturna (Nov 1, 2021)

quick1 said:


> Devialet Gemini's were delivered today. None of the supplied ear tips worked for me. The large set sealed but the sides are very weak and kept allowing the bud to move away from where I wanted them positioned. Initial impressions were pretty bad until I pushed them in and held them in position. Damn things have some bass I just needed to find a set of tips that will work to let them shine. Since I have the SednaEarfit Crystal tips I gave them a shot. That did the trick, these things sounded better than the G Bud Pro's in damn near all areas. Then remembering these can use the aptX codec I switched that in the Developer Options. Oh yea, better clarity and more volume without distortion. I listened for maybe 45 minutes and the battery was already down from 100% to 85%, they be hungry. Using the LG G8 phone, LG 3D Surround on in sound options, LG EQ set to Normal, Devialet's EQ set to Dynamic.
> 
> I decided to give a listen to the G Bud Pro's again to compare and now it seems like I can't get the original volume out of them that I once could. I switched the codec back but it didn't make a difference. Don't know what I did. Oop's


I think that's similar to the issue I have with them. I would really need a set of XL eartips and they would probably be perfect. Large fits and kinda stay in place for me if I lock them in tightly and twist them a bit (which unfortunately hurts my ears a bit), but I notice that it's not a perfectly snug fit and pushing them in really makes the bass sound incredibly deep.

Don't have any better eartips that didn't make the audio worse in other aspects. Tried some of the other eartips that I have and they all made the sound really awful even if they made them more comfortable.

Might buy the SednaEarFits then if you would recommend those! Seems like they have a 3-week delivery period if I buy them from Amazon which is painfully long though, or I could buy them from a domestic website that charge $36 for them which is also a bit expensive. Did you use size Large for the Crystals?


----------



## Juturna

I've seen SO many people complain about the sibilance/treble on the Liberty 3 Pro's, some people really call it ear-piercing, while some just don't seem to mind it at all or even notice it. 

Is it really dependent on fit or are they really that shrill on their stock tuning without EQ? I know some people are more treble sensitive than others but I've rarely seen TWS earbuds that are THAT divisive.


----------



## Ceeluh7

Juturna said:


> I've seen SO many people complain about the sibilance/treble on the Liberty 3 Pro's, some people really call it ear-piercing, while some just don't seem to mind it at all or even notice it.
> 
> Is it really dependent on fit or are they really that shrill on their stock tuning without EQ? I know some people are more treble sensitive than others but I've rarely seen TWS earbuds that are THAT divisive.


I think it has to do with the stock tuning. It was the worst tuned tws set I've ever heard out of the box, that is... At this price point with quality drivers and no excuse to let these off the shelves sounding the way they do. I have posted a few times here that these can be eq'd to pretty damn amazing... But your EQ will look like a freaking roller coaster... Lol. They are a good set with some flaws. However,.. I will never trust a youtube reviewer ever again after this set.. Lol.. After all I heard was how amazing they are, then bring them home and am confused because they were absolute garbage until I really dug in and played around with them.


----------



## 1mohmmad4

for sound quality in your opinions which you think is better Devialet Gemini's or liberty 3 pro?


----------



## nekonhime

1mohmmad4 said:


> for sound quality in your opinions which you think is better Devialet Gemini's or liberty 3 pro?


Devialet Gemini


----------



## bubsdaddy

Caipirina said:


> Funny, I was JUST thinking about those today, they were my first 'chi-fi' budget TWS pair and I still love them ... I never really found such a low profile set in that price range again .. by now I am just happy with my Bose QC Earbuds which I use also for running ...
> 
> The original Anbes359 are famously not available anymore ... and not many others in this shape were made .. just checking on one other model .. SSK something ...
> Ah, SSK BT03  ... but this is also from 2 years ago, might be equally hard to find ...


I recently acquired the little bother of the QC earbuds, the Bose Sport earbuds. I am enjoying them for running and they are a good replacement for the Bose Sport Frees.


----------



## clerkpalmer

So, my tinnitus is flaring up meaning I'm going to be dialing back my IEM usage.  As a result, I have a BNIB B&O EQ sealed as a warranty exchange that I probably shouldn't bother opening.  If anyone is interested, PM me.  I'll put them in classifieds too but wanted to offer them up here as well.


----------



## ryuflatron

clerkpalmer said:


> So, my tinnitus is flaring up meaning I'm going to be dialing back my IEM usage.  As a result, I have a BNIB B&O EQ sealed as a warranty exchange that I probably shouldn't bother opening.  If anyone is interested, PM me.  I'll put them in classifieds too but wanted to offer them up here as well.


Sorry to hear that. Just waited for your EQ return to hopefully hear the comparison between EQ and Fokus. But I guess I will stick with EQ since that ANC is good to keep. Hope you get well soon


----------



## clerkpalmer

ryuflatron said:


> Sorry to hear that. Just waited for your EQ return to hopefully hear the comparison between EQ and Fokus. But I guess I will stick with EQ since that ANC is good to keep. Hope you get well soon


Thanks - it's not fun.  I think sticking with the EQ is the right call given that ANC is important to you.  The Fokus is terrific but offers much less flexibility.  Really more a a nitch product.


----------



## jant71

clerkpalmer said:


> Thanks - it's not fun.  I think sticking with the EQ is the right call given that ANC is important to you.  The Fokus is terrific but offers much less flexibility.  Really more a a nitch product.


Does the Fokus work? I mean not give any issues. back pocket, stability and range and the like.

I might try the AT out. I like solid all rounders. Huge battery, trying for a good fit and case ergonomics, trying for sound, plenty of features. Saw they even have sidetone as well. They just don't seem to like wireless charging and I didn't like the in ear detection on my last AT. I just don't like it in general so glad they don't have it. But the AT was one of the more fun sounding TWS I have had.


----------



## quick1 (Nov 1, 2021)

Juturna said:


> I think that's similar to the issue I have with them. I would really need a set of XL eartips and they would probably be perfect. Large fits and kinda stay in place for me if I lock them in tightly and twist them a bit (which unfortunately hurts my ears a bit), but I notice that it's not a perfectly snug fit and pushing them in really makes the bass sound incredibly deep.
> 
> Don't have any better eartips that didn't make the audio worse in other aspects. Tried some of the other eartips that I have and they all made the sound really awful even if they made them more comfortable.
> 
> Might buy the SednaEarFits then if you would recommend those! Seems like they have a 3-week delivery period if I buy them from Amazon which is painfully long though, or I could buy them from a domestic website that charge $36 for them which is also a bit expensive. Did you use size Large for the Crystals?


For regular corded IEM's I use either ML or Large. The Sedna's come in half sizes to really nail the fit, and sometimes people use a different size in each ear.
For both the Galaxy Bud Pro's and the Devialet Gemini's I've been able to get a good seal with the size Med. Since I had spares for the Bud Pro's I just used them on the Gemini's too.
The important thing is to only use a tip that will seal the ear, no more. Otherwise you may introduce discomfort and irritation. 

I used the Devialet Gemini's at work today confirmed they are 100% power hungry.


----------



## clerkpalmer

jant71 said:


> Does the Fokus work? I mean not give any issues. back pocket, stability and range and the like.
> 
> I might try the AT out. I like solid all rounders. Huge battery, trying for a good fit and case ergonomics, trying for sound, plenty of features. Saw they even have sidetone as well. They just don't seem to like wireless charging and I didn't like the in ear detection on my last AT. I just don't like it in general so glad they don't have it. But the AT was one of the more fun sounding TWS I have had.


I haven't noticed any issues but I also have only used them indoors in close quarters.  No gremlins to report.


----------



## cresny

clerkpalmer said:


> So, my tinnitus is flaring up meaning I'm going to be dialing back my IEM usage.  As a result, I have a BNIB B&O EQ sealed as a warranty exchange that I probably shouldn't bother opening.  If anyone is interested, PM me.  I'll put them in classifieds too but wanted to offer them up here as well.


Not sure if it helps but for me there is a noticeable correlation between tinnitus flare and lack of sleep. Also stick to dynamic drivers only when it's bad.


----------



## clerkpalmer

cresny said:


> Not sure if it helps but for me there is a noticeable correlation between tinnitus flare and lack of sleep. Also stick to dynamic drivers only when it's bad.


Thanks, appreciate that.  It's been stable for 20 years but lately it's been blaring like a siren particularly at night.  Of course, that in turn means less sleep which definitely makes it worse along with stress etc.  Vicious cycle.  Hoping to get it back to baseline but gonna give my ears a rest from headphones even though I listen at pretty safe volumes.  Fingers crossed I can get it back down to previous bearable levels.


----------



## dj24

Looks like the new Beats Fit Pro have incorporated a lot of the Airpod's features..

https://www.cnet.com/tech/mobile/beats-fit-pro-review/


----------



## CocaCola15 (Nov 1, 2021)

Ceeluh7 said:


> Honestly it wouldn't be too much good to you because I applied my eq after the Hear ID. I can tell you that for me... Personally... I added alot of db's (4-5) to 800hz and a slight bump to 400hz (2-3). I dropped 1.6 a hair and then gave 3.2hz a 4-5 dB bump. Next I dropped everything at 6.4 and higher way way down. As far as the low end... Put it where you like it as it doesn't impede much on the rest of the spectrum. Sorry this is kind of vague but hear id kind of sculpts things before you eq them... So basically take this all with a grain of salt.


Same here re EQ but I went even a step farther. I EQ'd them post-HearID and then added a bit more tweaking using the Kaiser Audio app 30-band EQ option (I use Kaiser app to play all onboard music tracks on my iPhone 13 Pro; it won't work for streaming services, so the HearID or CA Melomania 1+ EQ app have to suffice). I know, sounds crazy. Two different EQ apps running simultaneously. But guess what? I found a way to make it work for me (all the purists are cringing, I know)! I now am going to keep the L3Ps for use outside the house, which is almost the only time I use TW IEMs. At home, I stick with full-sized or on-ear phones, both TW and wired. Only exception indoors is the Ety ER4XR, which I amp with the ES100.

Anyway, should a person have to jump through serious and multiple EQ hoops to get a TW or any headphone for that matter to sound its best? Nope. But for me, persistence paid off. OOB the L3P sounds pretty, pretty bad.


----------



## mh1c

As much as I’d like to read the 2600 pages I don’t think I can, so please don’t mind if I ask: are there any decent cheap (<$50) tws iem’s?


----------



## Ceeluh7

CocaCola15 said:


> Same here re EQ but I went even a step farther. I EQ'd them post-HearID and then added a bit more tweaking using the Kaiser Audio app (which I use to play all onboard music tracks on my iPhone 13 Pro; doesn't work for streaming services). I know, sounds crazy. Two different EQ apps running simultaneously. But guess what? It works! I now am going to keep the L3Ps for using outside the house, which is almost the only time I use TW IEMs. At home, stick with full-sized phones, both TW and wired. Only exception at indoors is the Ety ER4XR], amped.
> 
> Anyway, should a person have to jump through EQ hoops to get a TW or any headphone for that matter to sound its best? Nope. But for me, persistence paid off.


Ha, I should have stated... Sorry I didn't but I as well use poweramp eq. I basically replicate what I did in the Soundcore app inside the poweramp eq. Tws in my opinion are made to be eq'd. Anyways I understand what you are saying, I have tweaked these to sounding absolutely awesome. They sound like non in ear earbuds in the Soundstage but with good bass. I'm glad that worked for you man and absolutely you should not have to do what we had to do to get these to sound good, nobody should have to go that far but... Hey... Persistence... That's great man


----------



## CocaCola15

Ceeluh7 said:


> Ha, I should have stated... Sorry I didn't but I as well use poweramp eq. I basically replicate what I did in the Soundcore app inside the poweramp eq. Tws in my opinion are made to be eq'd. Anyways I understand what you are saying, I have tweaked these to sounding absolutely awesome. They sound like non in ear earbuds in the Soundstage but with good bass. I'm glad that worked for you man and absolutely you should not have to do what we had to do to get these to sound good, nobody should have to go that far but... Hey... Persistence... That's great man


I know, right?


----------



## jwong

I got the Comfobuds Pro yesterday, and it looks like they are just what I needed. Ambient mode works decently, comfort is good and the sound is good as well. Not next level good, but nothing is harsh or out of whack. The stems look stupid, but I can live with that. I picked them up new for $49 off ebay. They shipped from Amazon. Heckuva deal for that kind of money. I would have liked the blue version with the presets, but could only find it for more than double the price, so I'll live with this for now. Should make a good walking/hiking set.


----------



## quick1

mh1c said:


> As much as I’d like to read the 2600 pages I don’t think I can, so please don’t mind if I ask: are there any decent cheap (<$50) tws iem’s?


If you start about 10 pages back there was someone who mentioned some they thought were the $50 (U.S. I think) and under champ, I can't remember what they were though.


----------



## Tommy C

clerkpalmer said:


> Thanks, appreciate that.  It's been stable for 20 years but lately it's been blaring like a siren particularly at night.  Of course, that in turn means less sleep which definitely makes it worse along with stress etc.  Vicious cycle.  Hoping to get it back to baseline but gonna give my ears a rest from headphones even though I listen at pretty safe volumes.  Fingers crossed I can get it back down to previous bearable levels.


Sorry to hear that. Get better soon!


----------



## Tommy C

mh1c said:


> As much as I’d like to read the 2600 pages I don’t think I can, so please don’t mind if I ask: are there any decent cheap (<$50) tws iem’s?



I like the Fiil T1XS. They are small, isolate very well, have ambient mode and have a decent app with eq, low latency mode, touch sensitivity etc. 
Got them on sale from Amazon for $30 and it's the best I have heard under $50 with my preferred sound signature. 
Full disclosure: I don't have much experience in that segment. I also like balanced sound with strong mids, punchy bass (definitely not a basshead though) and highs that aren't too bright but provide enough sparkle.


----------



## Tommy C

jwong said:


> I got the Comfobuds Pro yesterday, and it looks like they are just what I needed. Ambient mode works decently, comfort is good and the sound is good as well. Not next level good, but nothing is harsh or out of whack. The stems look stupid, but I can live with that. I picked them up new for $49 off ebay. They shipped from Amazon. Heckuva deal for that kind of money. I would have liked the blue version with the presets, but could only find it for more than double the price, so I'll live with this for now. Should make a good walking/hiking set.



I have the Aurora Blue edition with the eq pre-sets and they work very well for me but for $49 you got a great deal.
I don't about you, but to me out of all the TWS that I have tried the Comfobuds Pro have the best ambient mode or maybe because they have a shallow fit too.
The sound is exactly up my alley with nice balanced sound. Nothing is harsh or offensive and the mids are crispy and clear and bass is good too.
The ANC works great for me for the kind of environment I'm at.
The stem is indeed stupid but I can live with that.

I like the sound better than the Sennheiser CX 400BT.


----------



## jwong

Tommy C said:


> I have the Aurora Blue edition with the eq pre-sets and they work very well for me but for $49 you got a great deal.
> I don't about you, but to me out of all the TWS that I have tried the Comfobuds Pro have the best ambient mode or maybe because they have a shallow fit too.
> The sound is exactly up my alley with nice balanced sound. Nothing is harsh or offensive and the mids are crispy and clear and bass is good too.
> The ANC works great for me for the kind of environment I'm at.
> ...



Yep, good call on the recommendation! Ambient mode is good, which was my priority. ANC seems to work well too, and definitely better than the last ANC iems I had, but it's not usually a concern of mine except on an airplane, and no iem is going to match good ANC headphones for that task.


----------



## Caipirina

webvan said:


> Sure ! Glad you're getting along well with the Bose QC, I quite liked them I must say but found them a bit big and couldn't really justify their price vs my trusty Echobuds v1 for ANC. BTW did you ever get a hold of the Echobuds v1 ?
> 
> On top of their overall isolation and form factor what I like about them is that when you switch to transparent mode you can choose to automatically have the music paused, great in a shop as simply going to Transparent without stopping the music isn't very helpful to have a conversation! The Jabra 65s had that, the 75s too but it was buggy if memory serves.


Yes, I actually got them, that cheap UK special back in the day, had a pal transferring to Sri Lanka, then he was in quarantine, eventually i got the buds, by now I have changed countries .. I think I had him order those last November .. time flies ... 
I really like them and I get what you say about the nice fit and everything, but I fail to fall in love with them ... i think there was something like I can only use Android app, no iOS app ... not sure ... but for 59 quid, that was ok.


----------



## Caipirina

I see a Fiil T2 Pro announced / available on AliExpress, other than some apparently AI / content farm generated articles I can't find much info ... would be lovely to have the sound of the T1 Pro with better ANC ... form factor looks a bit more roundish overall ... hilarious is that graphic what they think who these are for "student, staff, young lady'

somehow this one tickles my trigger finger .. and apparently not much cheaper during 11.11

Does anyone know more?


----------



## Ceeluh7

Caipirina said:


> I see a Fiil T2 Pro announced / available on AliExpress, other than some apparently AI / content farm generated articles I can't find much info ... would be lovely to have the sound of the T1 Pro with better ANC ... form factor looks a bit more roundish overall ... hilarious is that graphic what they think who these are for "student, staff, young lady'
> 
> somehow this one tickles my trigger finger .. and apparently not much cheaper during 11.11
> 
> Does anyone know more?


I would Def be interested in that. Problem is, I doubt they will come stateside


----------



## helmutcheese

Caipirina said:


> I see a Fiil T2 Pro announced / available on AliExpress, other than some apparently AI / content farm generated articles I can't find much info ... would be lovely to have the sound of the T1 Pro with better ANC ... form factor looks a bit more roundish overall ... hilarious is that graphic what they think who these are for "student, staff, young lady'
> 
> somehow this one tickles my trigger finger .. and apparently not much cheaper during 11.11
> 
> Does anyone know more?




https://min.news/en/tech/da8b5f53a96785b121a458066bf4ff7b.html


----------



## Ceeluh7

helmutcheese said:


> https://min.news/en/tech/da8b5f53a96785b121a458066bf4ff7b.html


Still no aptx... Not at all a deal breaker but would've loved to see it on a Fiil set


----------



## Robius

Caipirina said:


> I see a Fiil T2 Pro announced / available on AliExpress, other than some apparently AI / content farm generated articles I can't find much info ... would be lovely to have the sound of the T1 Pro with better ANC ... form factor looks a bit more roundish overall ... hilarious is that graphic what they think who these are for "student, staff, young lady'
> 
> somehow this one tickles my trigger finger .. and apparently not much cheaper during 11.11
> 
> Does anyone know more?


I've been waiting for these but as usual they are expensive at the launch. I'll wait for price drop to $60s.


----------



## erockg

Ceeluh7 said:


> Ha, I should have stated... Sorry I didn't but I as well use poweramp eq. I basically replicate what I did in the Soundcore app inside the poweramp eq. Tws in my opinion are made to be eq'd. Anyways I understand what you are saying, I have tweaked these to sounding absolutely awesome. They sound like non in ear earbuds in the Soundstage but with good bass. I'm glad that worked for you man and absolutely you should not have to do what we had to do to get these to sound good, nobody should have to go that far but... Hey... Persistence... That's great man


What kind of battery life are you guys getting on these?  I was on a Zoom for two hours and wow, the LP3 just ate up my battery life.  I think I had 80% when I started the call, then at about the two hour mark the buds gave me the low battery voice.


----------



## Ceeluh7

erockg said:


> What kind of battery life are you guys getting on these?  I was on a Zoom for two hours and wow, the LP3 just ate up my battery life.  I think I had 80% when I started the call, then at about the two hour mark the buds gave me the low battery voice.


I have yet to do a straight usage battery drain on them yet. I am curious tho


----------



## Markttp

Caipirina said:


> I see a Fiil T2 Pro announced / available on AliExpress, other than some apparently AI / content farm generated articles I can't find much info ... would be lovely to have the sound of the T1 Pro with better ANC ... form factor looks a bit more roundish overall ... hilarious is that graphic what they think who these are for "student, staff, young lady'
> 
> somehow this one tickles my trigger finger .. and apparently not much cheaper during 11.11
> 
> Does anyone know more?


Also this article:-

https://inf.news/en/digital/cf935be...meXnif0eo1g-1635814118-0-gqNtZGzNApCjcnBszQh9


----------



## quick1

erockg said:


> What kind of battery life are you guys getting on these?  I was on a Zoom for two hours and wow, the LP3 just ate up my battery life.  I think I had 80% when I started the call, then at about the two hour mark the buds gave me the low battery voice.


I only listened to music today on the Devialet Gemini's. Started at 100% and at roughly the two hour mark ONE of them ( I believe the right) was at 35%, the othe was much higher but I can't recall what it was at. The 35% reading was a little shocking.


----------



## erockg

quick1 said:


> I only listened to music today on the Devialet Gemini's. Started at 100% and at roughly the two hour mark ONE of them ( I believe the right) was at 35%, the othe was much higher but I can't recall what it was at. The 35% reading was a little shocking.


Oh, I was referring to the Liberty 3 Pros.  

Yes, the battery on the Devialet do drain at times.  I did a hard reset process and then it seems to have stabilized for now.  I've read they're supposed to have a firmware update soon.  Fingers crossed.


----------



## xSDMx

Soundpeats H1 x Spinfit test results. Both CP360 and CP145 fit the case just fine. 360 sightly boosts bass at the expense of some treble. CP145 absolute crushes the bass and there is nothing else but treble. I suspect poor fitment. Trying the Tanchjim T-APB next.


----------



## Ceeluh7

xSDMx said:


> Soundpeats H1 x Spinfit test results. Both CP360 and CP145 fit the case just fine. 360 sightly boosts bass at the expense of some treble. CP145 absolute crushes the bass and there is nothing else but treble. I suspect poor fitment. Trying the Tanchjim T-APB next.


Keep trying man, once you get the right tips that fit you and fit sonically ... The H1 are one of the best sub-100 sets. SQ wise they punch far above their weight without a doubt.


----------



## Caipirina

mh1c said:


> As much as I’d like to read the 2600 pages I don’t think I can, so please don’t mind if I ask: are there any decent cheap (<$50) tws iem’s?


you might want to start here   scarbir.com   some really useful guides as to what is best in which category


----------



## Caipirina (Nov 2, 2021)

Markttp said:


> Also this article:-
> 
> https://inf.news/en/digital/cf935be...meXnif0eo1g-1635814118-0-gqNtZGzNApCjcnBszQh9





helmutcheese said:


> https://min.news/en/tech/da8b5f53a96785b121a458066bf4ff7b.html


Those where my first 2 google hits as well and (at least on my phone) immediately tried to hook me up with single ladies in my area  ... also the way they read (fragrant? Capsule?) feel like ad revenue generating AI / content farms...  



waiting for more reliable sources ...  or just hit 'order'


----------



## chinmie

anyone still got the buds live? I've been listening to them again after the last update, and it seems that the EQ presets are now sound more usable and more pleasant for me. Now the Normal, Bass boost, Soft, and Dynamic sound good and can be used in different listening scenarios, whereas before i only like the Dynamic (barely) for music listening. also the overall volume can go much higher than before. I'm adding this back to my "music sleeping TWS" roster.


----------



## Caipirina

chinmie said:


> anyone still got the buds live? I've been listening to them again after the last update, and it seems that the EQ presets are now sound more usable and more pleasant for me. Now the Normal, Bass boost, Soft, and Dynamic sound good and can be used in different listening scenarios, whereas before i only like the Dynamic (barely) for music listening. also the overall volume can go much higher than before. I'm adding this back to my "music sleeping TWS" roster.


I still use them regularly because the case is so pocketable. I have to check on that update you speak of.


----------



## Juturna

Tommy C said:


> I have the Aurora Blue edition with the eq pre-sets and they work very well for me but for $49 you got a great deal.
> I don't about you, but to me out of all the TWS that I have tried the Comfobuds Pro have the best ambient mode or maybe because they have a shallow fit too.
> The sound is exactly up my alley with nice balanced sound. Nothing is harsh or offensive and the mids are crispy and clear and bass is good too.
> The ANC works great for me for the kind of environment I'm at.
> ...


I actually got inspired from your post about the Comfobuds Pro the other day and ordered the Aurora Blue ones the day before yesterday! Will probably get here on friday.  Will probably not be my daily driver but I needed something new and fun to look forward to.


----------



## Caipirina

Juturna said:


> I actually got inspired from your post about the Comfobuds Pro the other day and ordered the Aurora Blue ones the day before yesterday! Will probably get here on friday.  Will probably not be my daily driver but I needed something new and fun to look forward to.


I am curious about those Aurora Blue as well .. I wonder if the blue versions on AliExpress are those .. some say Aurora .. one says 'only the GLOBAL version of blue supports' .. and I frankly wonder from a technical point of view how the presets are limited to one specific edition .. shouldn't that be an app thing?


----------



## Tommy C

Juturna said:


> I actually got inspired from your post about the Comfobuds Pro the other day and ordered the Aurora Blue ones the day before yesterday! Will probably get here on friday.  Will probably not be my daily driver but I needed something new and fun to look forward to.


I hope you will like them. 
I have ordered 2 more sets as Christmas gifts since you can’t really go wrong with them. 
For me, like you I ordered them as a secondary set for phone calls and for the ANC but they have become my daily driver mainly due to their sound signature and an ambient mode that actually works well. 
Also, in the 1More app there is an option for Burn-in. 4 cycles if I recall. I had completed only one but it’s there in case you want to give it a go. 

Looking forward to read your initial impression.


----------



## Tommy C

Caipirina said:


> I am curious about those Aurora Blue as well .. I wonder if the blue versions on AliExpress are those .. some say Aurora .. one says 'only the GLOBAL version of blue supports' .. and I frankly wonder from a technical point of view how the presets are limited to one specific edition .. shouldn't that be an app thing?


I believe the Aurora Blue is a different set altogether although similar hardware but once connected to the app it will recognize it and provide you with access to the eq pre-sets.


----------



## TK33 (Nov 2, 2021)

chinmie said:


> anyone still got the buds live? I've been listening to them again after the last update, and it seems that the EQ presets are now sound more usable and more pleasant for me. Now the Normal, Bass boost, Soft, and Dynamic sound good and can be used in different listening scenarios, whereas before i only like the Dynamic (barely) for music listening. also the overall volume can go much higher than before. I'm adding this back to my "music sleeping TWS" roster.


I have 2 of them and use them for calls, watching Netflix on my tablet and the occasional music.while out and about (one for my phone and one for a Samsung tablet).  I started out with the Clear EQ or Treble Boost because the bass was too much for my taste out of the box. I switched to Normal after one of the earlier updates because it sounded cleaner after the update so your post is not surprising to me.  Still my favorite for calls so I always have them with me when out or at home (the size of the case is also great in terms of portability).  I haven't noticed any changes after recent updates but, for music, I usually have either the PI7 or TW2 so I just haven't used them much for music recently. They still get 5-6 hours of use per day for calls and binge watching Netflix when everyone else is sleeping.

On a separate note, I ordered the Galaxy Buds 2.  Wife needed a new case for her Flip3 so I ordered the Buds 2 while I was at it (had the pre-order credit I needed to use).  Reviews seem to indicate good call quality so hoping they work ok with Zoom (Windows laptop).

It is amazing how early sales started this year (Black Friday sales in October?).  I noticed the Sennheiser CX Plus are on sale for $160 now at various stores, including Amazon and Best Buy, if anyone was thinking about picking up one of those.


----------



## bladefd

Sennheiser CX Plus is on sale already?? Didn't they just release in September? They might not be selling enough pieces. The TWS sector seems to be getting diluted, especially by chifi knockoffs piling on by the boatloads


----------



## erockg

bladefd said:


> Sennheiser CX Plus is on sale already?? Didn't they just release in September? They might not be selling enough pieces. The TWS sector seems to be getting diluted, especially by chifi knockoffs piling on by the boatloads


Pretty much every big name, and small name, brand is on sale this week.  It's very tempting.


----------



## nijfi

erockg said:


> What kind of battery life are you guys getting on these?  I was on a Zoom for two hours and wow, the LP3 just ate up my battery life.  I think I had 80% when I started the call, then at about the two hour mark the buds gave me the low battery voice.


About 3 hours or so of listening to Flacs over LDAC with Adaptive ANC on, but in a very quiet environment.
It's my first ever set of wireless anything, so I've no idea if that is good or bad or not.


----------



## Francesco Montanari

Hi guys please try Technics EAH-AZ60-K,  they are the best true wireless ever tried (i own at least 40 pairs). Wonderful audio quality,  solid anc and great call quality. I'm really in love with this headset


----------



## darveniza

Finally arrived, massive shipping box but then the TWS box was kind banged up??

Will try later , Buds pro case next for perspective


----------



## bladefd

darveniza said:


> Finally arrived, massive shipping box but then the TWS box was kind banged up??
> 
> Will try later , Buds pro case next for perspective


Did you ever try the AZ70? I would be curious how they compare in SQ and dimension/size fitting.


----------



## darveniza

bladefd said:


> Did you ever try the AZ70? I would be curious how they compare in SQ and dimension/size fitting.


Yes still have it


----------



## dweaver

Awesome @darveniza look forward to your impressions! The smaller case is very interesting, it shows how much smaller these are. Very excited!


----------



## xSDMx

No Qi charging? I wish they also had AptX support. Other than that, they look fantastic. Multi-point pairing!


----------



## erockg

Another wild hair and now I have these to try out:  https://www.bestbuy.com/site/by-ank...sses-headphones-black/6476200.p?skuId=6476200

They're pretty much TWS with a modular sunglasses attachment.  Pretty cool far.  Soundcore has a surround setting which opens up the soundstage.  Much more comfortable than the Bose sunglasses and they work much better than the Fauna sunglasses I have.


----------



## bladefd

xSDMx said:


> No Qi charging? I wish they also had AptX support. Other than that, they look fantastic. Multi-point pairing!


They still don't have aptx?? I guess Panasonic/Technics doesn't do business with aptx company.

They do have LDAC though. I don't know how battery life is with LDAC on.


----------



## darveniza

Just some quick impressions on the the Technics AZ60


App is much more developed than previous TWS 70, with increase controls for ANC and Transparency
EQ has presets plus customization options
All controls available within earbuds, so you can keep phone in pocket
Case is lighter and slimmer as shown in pictures
Tips from XS to XL, good selection
Easy set up and a firmware update was required out of the box
Sound vs 70. Bass is very good with good rumble , like these highs. Actually it feels that this feels tuned less vanilla than previous one. 
Enhanced the experience by using the EQ on dynamic, very nice. Like these more than MTW2 soundwise, still testing ANC between both
The voice really worked well , called my wife from laundry room with several things running and she heard my voice very cleaned vs Samsung and MTW2, so whatever trick they are using works

Just some quick thoughts.


----------



## bladefd

darveniza said:


> Just some quick impressions on the the Technics AZ60
> 
> 
> App is much more developed than previous TWS 70, with increase controls for ANC and Transparency
> ...


Looks like they fixed bass being too weak in the AZ70.

Do they have better fitting? I returned the AZ70 because I felt they struck out too much. They were not very secure.


----------



## Tommy C

bladefd said:


> Sennheiser CX Plus is on sale already?? Didn't they just release in September? They might not be selling enough pieces. The TWS sector seems to be getting diluted, especially by chifi knockoffs piling on by the boatloads



Yeah, wasn't expecting them to go on sale already. About 15% off and I'm predicting they will go even lower soon enough.
I think their original MSRP was a touch too high.


----------



## darveniza

bladefd said:


> Looks like they fixed bass being too weak in the AZ70.
> 
> Do they have better fitting? I returned the AZ70 because I felt they struck out too much. They were not very secure.


Oh yes, they did fix. The XL tips work great


----------



## Juturna (Nov 3, 2021)

My 1More Comfobuds Pro have apparently arrived 2 days early, glad that I didn't splurge for the extra fast delivery that was meant to deliver them tomorrow (instead of friday) 
Will pick them up after work and maybe give some first impressions later tonight.


----------



## Caipirina

I went a bit down the rabbit hole of cheapo buds again and got myself the QCY HT03, since  wife has taken ownership of my APP and I wanted something 'like that' without paying like 200$ used here ...   and boy, what a nice surprise! These are pretty much what I wanted! They fit just like the APP, even have the oval, squishy latex / silicone-y feel eartips, the ANC is surprisingly strong ... and the sound is not too bad ... heck, since I have not had a chance to A/B with the original APP (wife is not giving 'em back), I'd be hard pressed to say if / how the APP are better. Scarbir describes the sound as warm & muddy ... I get the 'warm' part, which I happen to like. 
Things that are not that great, there is an annoying, very cheap sounding beep upon connection .. the voice prompts sound tacky ("pass throughT" she says), speaking of that ambient mode, it works, but it sucks, it amplifies too much. The touch inputs are a mess but can be re-routed in the app (there's an app!), no one has figured out yet if the firmware upgrade works, it keeps saying this only works in monaural mode ...  so, bottom line, I try not to touch those buds while I am listening to music  .
I did a 15K run with them today and they behave just like the APP: very subdued 'thud', they stay in place and are pretty perfect for my kind of running music (Disco, Funk, EDM, everything with a happy beat). There were 0 connection drops. 
They will be down to 30$ come 11.11 (maybe even less with coupons)


----------



## jant71

Kinda big, pricey, and they haven't made a "high performance dynamic" yet so hard to not worry they might be a let down.
https://www-phileweb-com.translate....l=ja&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en-US&_x_tr_pto=nui


----------



## dweaver

Reading about that Shure model I would not be surprised if just a rehash of the SE215 driver...


----------



## erockg

dweaver said:


> Reading about that Shure model I would not be surprised if just a rehash of the SE215 driver...


The form factor looks awful.  For $199, it's got to be a single driver 215-esque bud.  I'll stick with my TW2 with the SE846 for now... until the itch takes over.


----------



## HaliHarry (Nov 4, 2021)

Bass on AZ60 is perfect for me. Same with fit, connection, features. However, i feel that mid and high on AZ60 is less crisp and clear than AZ70, vocal is also quite flat for me, especialy male voice. I like a warm and thick vocal so this is my EQ setting


----------



## darveniza

HaliHarry said:


> Bass on AZ60 is perfect for me. Same with fit, connection, features. However, i feel that mid and high on AZ60 is less crisp and clear than AZ70, vocal is also quite flat for me, especialy male voice. I like a warm and thick vocal so this is my EQ setting


Thanks for sharing your custom EQ, will try when I get home. I used last night the dynamic EQ setting and it placed it above the AZ70.
While I was doing A/B , the fit came into play. The 60 felt better for me , it was like Samsung Pro vs Buds 2 . The fit played a key part to actually enjoy this


----------



## TK33

erockg said:


> The form factor looks awful.  For $199, it's got to be a single driver 215-esque bud.  I'll stick with my TW2 with the SE846 for now... until the itch takes over.


Same here. As much as I like their IEMs, this will be a pass for me.  The Aonic Free looks huge and uncomfortable to me and one of the reasons why I like their IEMs is that they are very comfortable to me.  Now if they had released a new Aonic 8 (not just a repackaged SE846) they would probably have me opening my wallet again.  I guess everyone wants a piece of the TWS market these days.  Am pretty happy with my TW2/SE846 combo as well.


----------



## tinyman392

jant71 said:


> Kinda big, pricey, and they haven't made a "high performance dynamic" yet so hard to not worry they might be a let down.
> https://www-phileweb-com.translate....l=ja&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en-US&_x_tr_pto=nui


Shure does have a dynamic driver in the 215.  The design reminds me of the older Sony TWS.


----------



## musicphotolife (Nov 4, 2021)

bladefd said:


> Did you ever try the AZ70? I would be curious how they compare in SQ and dimension/size fitting.



Hey ! Here are some close-up pics for your comparison.











If I were to EQ the AZ60 to the AZ70 profile, this is what it would roughly look like:
1. AZ70 bass is less boomy.
2. AZ70 solo instruments are more forward (midrange)
3. AZ70 percussions are louder (upper treble).





I have described in more details on this Head-Fi page -> https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/technics-eah-az60.25525/reviews#review-27177


----------



## Juturna

I did not get my Comfobuds Pro yesterday, the delivery service app did something wrong so it looked like it was available for pick-up yesterday, but after a couple of hours it changed to "we've received note that your package will arrive to us shortly - we'll send updates when we've received the package and processed it for delivery" so it's not even in my country yet lol.  Oh well, maybe tomorrow then!


----------



## jant71 (Nov 4, 2021)

tinyman392 said:


> Shure does have a dynamic driver in the 215.  The design reminds me of the older Sony TWS.


Yep, and they have had dynamics before the 215. I said they have yet to make a high performance dynamic . Even before the SE215 was old and past it's prime it was, at most, a solid performer. Popular because they were Shure but none of the dynamic models have been high SQ.


----------



## Tommy C

musicphotolife said:


> Hey ! Here are some close-up pics for your comparison.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Really good review.
Looks like the AZ60 are overall an improvement in all aspects other than sound which is a toss-up.
The Sennheiser MTW2 already have a balanced sound and bass so to have less than that on the AZ60 will be too weak for my taste.
I also don't really like earbuds that mask bad recording. If something was recorded poorly I rather hear like it is with all its imperfections.


----------



## morike (Nov 4, 2021)

I got my Devialet Gemini today, is it normal that the right side has a stronger background noise?

After a few hours, I have to say that I am somehow not satisfied with them.
For me personally, there is a lack of air/space, detail/resolution and separation.

Its my first higher priced TWS, so not sure how to compare them but for now I am not convinced.

Now I am thinking of trying the Falcon Pro, what do you think?


Edit:

Dont get me wrong, they sound good.. but i just don't know what to expect, 
as i only had experience with iems (cable) around the same price so far.


----------



## LordToneeus

scubaphish said:


> Finally got my Fiil T1XS and I am sincerely impressed with the sound. They are really, really nice.


I've been working out with my black Fiil T1X lately, and they have always delighted me.  Finally saw the 40% coupon appear again on the white T1XS, so I snagged them, and I am just so excited with these too.  They fit perfectly out of the box, connected flawlessly, and am I completely satisfied with the sound.  I returned my Liberty 3 Pro's and gifted my Jabra Elite Active 75t's to my wife.


----------



## Juturna

morike said:


> I got my Devialet Gemini today, is it normal that the right side has a stronger background noise?
> 
> After a few hours, I have to say that I am somehow not satisfied with them.
> For me personally, there is a lack of air/space, detail/resolution and separation.
> ...


Honestly, I won’t try to sway you but I felt the same as you did, and all of a sudden after a few weeks of owning them I now think they sound AMAZING, I don’t know what happened but it feels like the bass hits harder and extends lower, the highs are less harsh and there’s definitely some depth to it and the soundstage is honestly pretty good!

Mids and clarity are still a weaker point but those also sound better honestly.

Did you try all the eartips and the in-app EQ?


----------



## Tommy C

LordToneeus said:


> I've been working out with my black Fiil T1X lately, and they have always delighted me.  Finally saw the 40% coupon appear again on the white T1XS, so I snagged them, and I am just so excited with these too.  They fit perfectly out of the box, connected flawlessly, and am I completely satisfied with the sound.  I returned my Liberty 3 Pro's and gifted my Jabra Elite Active 75t's to my wife.


The Fiil T1XS and the 1More Comfobuds Pro both have my preferred sound signature which is somewhat similar and both part of my rotation when out and about. 
The T1 XS has a very pocketable case and they just disappear in my ears. 

The Fiil T1XS at this price shouldn’t sound this good lol 
When you try something more expensive  it makes you feel like it’s overpriced after seeing what Fiil has done with the T1XS.


----------



## LordToneeus

Tommy C said:


> The Fiil T1XS and the 1More Comfobuds Pro both have my preferred sound signature which is somewhat similar and both part of my rotation when out and about.
> The T1 XS has a very pocketable case and they just disappear in my ears.
> 
> The Fiil T1XS at this price shouldn’t sound this good lol
> When you try something more expensive  it makes you feel like it’s overpriced after seeing what Fiil has done with the T1XS.


Exactly!  I've had the CA MT, Liberty 2 Pro, Liberty 3 Pro, MW07, MW08 Sport, and Jabra Elite Active 75t.  They are all gone, and the Fiil remain!


----------



## Tommy C (Nov 4, 2021)

LordToneeus said:


> Exactly!  I've had the CA MT, Liberty 2 Pro, Liberty 3 Pro, MW07, MW08 Sport, and Jabra Elite Active 75t.  They are all gone, and the Fiil remain!


I used them today when I was walking around downtown. The ambient works as it should. Zero connection issues and the sound is awesome. I love the strong mids yet balanced sound. They play acoustic music really well.
The small form factor is definitely a plus.

FiIl also included a burn-in feature in the app If you believe in it as apparently they do.

I’m glad you like yours!


----------



## morike

Juturna said:


> Honestly, I won’t try to sway you but I felt the same as you did, and all of a sudden after a few weeks of owning them I now think they sound AMAZING, I don’t know what happened but it feels like the bass hits harder and extends lower, the highs are less harsh and there’s definitely some depth to it and the soundstage is honestly pretty good!
> 
> Mids and clarity are still a weaker point but those also sound better honestly.
> 
> Did you try all the eartips and the in-app EQ?



Yes, i lowered the bass a little and tried several tips.

Fit and sealing is good, not perfect but nothing i would complain about.
I think my expectations were just too high..  but does your right side (master) also has significantly more background noise than the left side?


----------



## mh1c

LordToneeus said:


> I've been working out with my black Fiil T1X lately, and they have always delighted me.  Finally saw the 40% coupon appear again on the white T1XS, so I snagged them, and I am just so excited with these too.  They fit perfectly out of the box, connected flawlessly, and am I completely satisfied with the sound.  I returned my Liberty 3 Pro's and gifted my Jabra Elite Active 75t's to my wife.


Where did you get them?


----------



## LordToneeus

mh1c said:


> Where did you get them?


Amazon US. The price seems to fluctuate between $46.99 and $49.99 and the ever-accompanying coupon between 20% - 40%.


----------



## scubaphish

morike said:


> Yes, i lowered the bass a little and tried several tips.
> 
> Fit and sealing is good, not perfect but nothing i would complain about.
> I think my expectations were just too high..  but does your right side (master) also has significantly more background noise than the left side?


From my experience, I don’t have differing sound/noise from one side vs other. Biggest (only) difference I’ve noticed comes from battery drain.


----------



## morike

scubaphish said:


> From my experience, I don’t have differing sound/noise from one side vs other. Biggest (only) difference I’ve noticed comes from battery drain.





 

I've got 23% - 9% .. which is ok for me because i don't need more than 5 hours. (without anc)
Its just that coil whine like noise on the right side that really annoys me.


----------



## erockg

morike said:


> I've got 23% - 9% .. which is ok for me because i don't need more than 5 hours. (without anc)
> Its just that coil whine like noise on the right side that really annoys me.


I had the same issue and Devialet sent me reset instructions.  It helped for me, but not for everyone.  Worth a try:

"- Remove and put the earphones one by one in the case.
- Close the case
- Press the button, and in the meantime
- Open/close the case twice in a row
- Release the button

Did the light turn flashing orange and then green for a moment?

If yes, the reset has been well done, and you will be able to put the box in pairing mode again.

Forget in your phone's Bluetooth settings any device linked to Gemini.

Then repair with Gemini L and pair with R.

This should solve the problem you are experiencing."


----------



## Tommy C

morike said:


> I think my expectations were just too high..  but does your right side (master) also has significantly more background noise than the left side?


I don't know, if I were to spend $300 on a set of TWS I would have had some lofty expectations and especially when a lot of members here praise them.
As their price tag suggests they are top tier and you should be satisfied with your purchase and if you're not, send them back as they might be faulty based on your impression with the background noise on one side.


----------



## quick1 (Nov 5, 2021)

morike said:


> I got my Devialet Gemini today, is it normal that the right side has a stronger background noise?
> 
> After a few hours, I have to say that I am somehow not satisfied with them.
> For me personally, there is a lack of air/space, detail/resolution and separation.


Honestly, when I first tried them I thought I made a big mistake and they were going back immediately. I tried all the tips that they came with and none of them worked for me. I tried pushing the buds in and trying several different angles with pressure against them making sure they didn't slip or back out. At one point they sounded MUCH better, but when I stopped pushing them in they backed out and the sound went back to being kinda bad. Clearly the original tips are a huge no no for me. I fitted SednaEarfit Crystal tips and the sound was much improved. So far on every IEM and TWS my ears want a deep insertion depth.

Not long after I discovered they can use apt-X I went into the Developer Options on my phone and changed the codec from AAC to apt-x and things became clearer and louder. I also have DTS:X SD Surround enabled on my phone which helps. Some people have also said setting the EQ to Dynamic helps them out but I haven't been able to do that. For some reason my phone's built in EQ overrides any installed app's EQ.

I would suggest getting a proper seal and fit/ positioning with tips is essential. I would try doing all of these things before you give up on them. That being said I do think separation and detail could be a little stronger on these but that bass, it can stay. I also have the Galaxy Buds Pro and the bass is disappointing on songs where I know the bass should be much stronger.


----------



## quick1 (Nov 5, 2021)

erockg said:


> I had the same issue and Devialet sent me reset instructions.  It helped for me, but not for everyone.  Worth a try:
> 
> "- Remove and put the earphones one by one in the case.
> - Close the case
> ...



I just tried this only because of the unequal discharge levels between the buds. My case only flashed Orange, it didn't do a green flash after that.
I get maybe 4.5 hours at work listening to music before they bow out.


----------



## erockg

quick1 said:


> I just tried this only because of the unequal discharge levels between the buds. My case only flashed Orange, in didn't do a green flash after that.
> I get maybe 4.5 hours at work listening to music before they bow out.


Same here.  4 hours today with music and a 1 hour phone call.  I still get more drain on the right bud.  Had 22% on the left and 4% on the right when they shut down.


----------



## xSDMx (Nov 5, 2021)

Tip rolling on the Soundpeats H1s paid off!

I tested out the stock silicone tips, Comply foamies, Spinfit CP145, CP360, and the Tanchjim T-APB series (T300T and T300B).

Tl;dr the T300T are far and away the winners for me!

Stock silicone: Fits the nozzle outer diameter perfectly. Good sound signature, but a little bass heavy. Medium isolation, but good for calls. Not good for exercise; constantly slipping out of my ears when running.

Comply foamies: Fits the nozzle outer diameter perfectly. Great sound signature, tames the bass slightly and pulls the mids up and treble forward. Good fit. Absolutely ridiculous isolation! Better than some active ANC; as such, not good for calls.

Spinfit CP145: Fits the nozzle, but seems to have some issues sealing. Zero bass, all treble. Not good.

Spinfit CP360: Narrower than the nozzle outer diameter. Bass boosted, treble takes a back seat. Fantastic fit, great for exercise. Good for calls.

T300B: Almost exactly identical to the CP360. Seriously! Makes sense given they have the same narrow outer diameter.

T300T: Fantastic! Perfectly sized to the nozzle outer diameter. Bass slightly moves back and mids and treble forward. Good fit for exercise and great for calls. Winner!


----------



## ryuflatron

morike said:


> I've got 23% - 9% .. which is ok for me because i don't need more than 5 hours. (without anc)
> Its just that coil whine like noise on the right side that really annoys me.



My B&O EQ did the same to me. And yes, really strong/ noticeable floor noise from the right bud. I asked B&O Customer Service and they told me it is normal ( unbalanced discharge issue) but still asked me to send them back for diagnosing and they claim that floor noise is common because of BT chip inside the buds which I think it is B.s. it is a $400 pair of earbuds. Factory reset did not help at all. I placed a replacement from Amazon and it arrived today. Surprisingly, no floor noise at all, better (still unbalanced) discharge but they are calibrating themselves, even the touch function is more responsive and Noise cancellation is more isolated, no random disconnection. I think B&O is having QC issues now ( maybe Devialet and B&W as well ) so just ask for a replacement


----------



## TK33 (Nov 5, 2021)

Just got the Galaxy Buds2 in today.  Initial impressions is that I will probably not be using these for music and will probably use them for Zoom calls and binge-watching Netflix on my Samsung tablet. Sounds recessed with ANC off and too bassy for my taste  with ANC on (all I hear is bass right now).  Prefer the sound of the Galaxy Buds Live, which sounds tighter to me in comparison.  They will definitely be making the trip with me when I fly out to the West Coast in a few weeks so I can test ANC.

Mic quality actually sounded more natural to me on the Zoom audio test vs. the Galaxy Buds Live but I think I prefer the more open design of the Live for calls.  I usually keep the Galaxy Bud Live scattered about to quickly pick up phone calls.  Will have to try the Buds2 on some calls next week (there is an option to pipe in ambient noise for calls).  I am using Final Type E TWS tips and they work great.  

The app is so much better for the Buds2 vs. Live.  Really like that you can now toggle between ANC and Ambient and everything is customizable (volume control is a bit tricky and probably easier to pull out the phone)

The current rotation:


----------



## bladefd

If there are any good TWS deals during black Friday month, please post them in here!


----------



## Ceeluh7

xSDMx said:


> Tip rolling on the Soundpeats H1s paid off!
> 
> I tested out the stock silicone tips, Comply foamies, Spinfit CP145, CP360, and the Tanchjim T-APB series (T300T and T300B).
> 
> ...


Ya man... Great! Once you get your tips right on the H1... You got one heckuva set... Cool man


----------



## Ceeluh7

bladefd said:


> If there are any good TWS deals during black Friday month, please post them in here!


On Amazon I saw the Lypertek Z7 on sale for $130ish. Normally 200. To me they are second to pretty much none SQ wise...imo. I'm sure there are other sales out there and more coming soon


----------



## quick1 (Nov 6, 2021)

xSDMx said:


> Tip rolling on the Soundpeats H1s paid off!
> 
> Spinfit CP360: Narrower than the nozzle outer diameter. Bass boosted, treble takes a back seat. Fantastic fit, great for exercise. Good for calls.
> 
> T300B: Almost exactly identical to the CP360. Seriously! Makes sense given they have the same narrow outer diameter.


About matching the nozzle diameter, I've observed pretty much the same thing with every tip I've tried. In no way do I want something blocking the natural sound coming from the nozzle. I'd much rather use an EQ to tame a frequency if I have a problem with it. To me it seems like blocking part of the nozzle reduces some focus and detail.

Also the large Sennheiser tips showed up today so I'll give those a try. Given what I said above I don't know how I feel about having that cross of material going through the middle. Since I got 5 pairs I might just have to sacrifice one to experimentation, chop chop.


----------



## quick1

Ceeluh7 said:


> On Amazon I saw the Lypertek Z7 on sale for $130ish. Normally 200. To me they are second to pretty much none SQ wise...imo.


What are your musical tastes?
Dying to know here, what did you think of the Devialet Gemini's? 
Were you able to get them to seal? Too bass heavy? Not enough separation/ air/ detail? Quality issues?


----------



## Tommy C (Nov 6, 2021)

quick1 said:


> About matching the nozzle diameter, I've observed pretty much the same thing with every tip I've tried. In no way do I want something blocking the natural sound coming from the nozzle. I'd much rather use an EQ to tame a frequency if I have a problem with it. To me it seems like blocking part of the nozzle reduces some focus and detail.
> 
> Also the large Sennheiser tips showed up today so I'll give those a try. Given what I said above I don't know how I feel about having that cross of material going through the middle. Since I got 5 pairs I might just have to sacrifice one to experimentation, chop chop.



I have the Sennheiser CX 400BT and the stock tips have this odd cross in the middle. I didn’t like them and replaced them with the Fiil tips that provide deeper fit and more clarity. I also found the stock Sennheiser tips uncomfortable since even the L ones felt not big enough and I’m usually a M for any other tips but it’s a personal thing I guess.
Sound wise I didn’t find the stock Sennheiser tips any good and the sound was sort of distant and muddy with them but it could also be that I couldn’t achieve proper seal.


----------



## pitch_black

It probably also has to do with false or too high expectations. At the end of the day, this is still just Bluetooth and they will never come close to something like a wired high-end IEM.


----------



## quick1

Tommy C said:


> I have the Sennheiser CX 400BT and the stock tips have this odd cross in the middle. I didn’t like them and replaced them with the Fiil tips that provide deeper fit and more clarity. I also found the stock Sennheiser tips uncomfortable since even the L ones felt not big enough and I’m usually a M for any other tips but it’s a personal thing I guess.
> Sound wise I didn’t find the stock Sennheiser tips any good and the sound was sort of distant and muddy with them but it could also be that I couldn’t achieve proper seal.


That's what these are. The Med definitely didn't seal for me. I just tried the large and they don't work for me either. Not nearly the isolation that the SednaEarfit Crystal's give me and the bass all but disappeared compared the Crystals. The Crystal's definitely fit a little deeper into my ear. 

It sounds like we are experiencing the same fitment problems. 
Do you have a link to those Fiil tips?


----------



## Ceeluh7

quick1 said:


> What are your musical tastes?
> Dying to know here, what did you think of the Devialet Gemini's?
> Were you able to get them to seal? Too bass heavy? Not enough separation/ air/ detail? Quality issues?


I really enjoyed the Gemini's sound. There was something lacking there to me though. They sound awesome but there were inconsistencies with them. Like volume being higher on one side or the controls just not working. They were a mess. The sound was great. But, I got to thinking... "I am spending $300 bucks on a set that doesn't work very well."... Just took them back. I could see how one would love them with a correctly functioning set. 
I did get the Gemini's to seal, I tried tip after tip and unfortunately I cannot begin to know what pair I used as I just have a huge Tupperware full of tips from iems and tws. I just picked a set that worked. It did take awhile to find a good seal with these for me. I was going to send them back and get another pair but the AZ60's came out, were less expensive and prob function better so... I gave those a try and they are coming today actually. As far as music I listen to almost all genres... Really, I know that doesn't help very much but it is true, I listen to a very wide variety of music.


----------



## scubaphish

bladefd said:


> If there are any good TWS deals during black Friday month, please post them in here!


Best Buy has a few, including Jabra elite 85t for 149.50, was 229; and they have a best price guarantee, if price drops between now and Black Friday. Same with galaxy buds2 and pro, each $30 off. Bose quiet comfort for 199.


----------



## Tommy C

quick1 said:


> That's what these are. The Med definitely didn't seal for me. I just tried the large and they don't work for me either. Not nearly the isolation that the SednaEarfit Crystal's give me and the bass all but disappeared compared the Crystals. The Crystal's definitely fit a little deeper into my ear.
> 
> It sounds like we are experiencing the same fitment problems.
> Do you have a link to those Fiil tips?


The Fiil tips came with the T1XS and I think they are unavailable to purchase separately but the T1XS are on sale now with 40% off and they come with 4 tips and regardless the T1XS are a steal at this price of $27. They are very nice TWS.


----------



## Markttp (Nov 6, 2021)

bladefd said:


> If there are any good TWS deals during black Friday month, please post them in here!


I think this code only works in UK, (I tried US site and it didn't reduce price.)

20% off the much discussed B&O EQ so £280 rather than £350.

UPEQ20 - valid until 12 Nov, black and sandstone colours only.

Code works on official site and amgrace site, and should be accepted by most price matchers.

I think they're still a touch too expensive for me personally, but not convinced there will be any bigger discounts available later in Nov, so could be a good price if in UK.

EDIT: I'm thinking about it. (This flipping thread! 😂 )


----------



## Ceeluh7

Lypertek Soundfree S20 are only $41 on Amazon. IMO one of the best budget tws for SQ that you can get, that I've heard anyways.


----------



## TK33

scubaphish said:


> Best Buy has a few, including Jabra elite 85t for 149.50, was 229; and they have a best price guarantee, if price drops between now and Black Friday. Same with galaxy buds2 and pro, each $30 off. Bose quiet comfort for 199.


Sales seem to have started in October this year. Galaxy Buds Live are also 99.99 now, normally 169.99. Probably can get some additional discounts in the Samsung store for any of their TWS. Can trade in a wired headset for $20 or $30 off the price.  Looks like Buds Pro is 120, Galaxy Buds2 would be $100 and Buds Live would be $80 after trade in of a wired headset (they provide you with a mailing label).  I i sent them one of those AKG earbuds that I will never used to come free when you bought a phone and got $20 off my Buds2.


----------



## Tommy C

Sony WF-1000XM3 are $130 from Amazon or Sony direct.


----------



## Tommy C

In Canada from Amazon. 1MORE True Wireless Earbuds Active Noise Cancelling for $70 CAD. 
I believe the THX certified version was launched last year but app has no eq for them (?)


----------



## Nick24JJ

Hi guys,

Which true wireless IEMs would you suggest me, to match (as close as possible) my current setup? 
My current setup: Amazon Music HD --> my Android phone --> Qudelix 5K --> TRI I3

I am currently using Cambridge Audio Melomania 1 but I would like to replace them. I am listening to Electronic music most of the time, so I appreciate the bass.

Thanks


----------



## Ceeluh7

Nick24JJ said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> Which true wireless IEMs would you suggest me, to match (as close as possible) my current setup?
> My current setup: Amazon Music HD --> my Android phone --> Qudelix 5K --> TRI I3
> ...


Cambridge Audio Melo 1+. I love that set man. Small/compact sounds fantastic with a great app. How much money are you willing to part with for an upgrade


----------



## Nick24JJ (Nov 6, 2021)

Ceeluh7 said:


> Cambridge Audio Melo 1+. I love that set man. Small/compact sounds fantastic with a great app. How much money are you willing to part with for an upgrade


Hey, thanks for your reply! 

I thought about Melomania 1+ , as well, but they do not offer LDAC support. Also, I feel that I am going for the same sound signature, which is fine by me, I was just hoping to get something different. I was hoping to get something with LDAC. I can pay up to £200. I would go for the Sony but they are around £250 on Amazon UK.

According to your opinion, which sounds better? Sony WF-1000XM4 or Melomania 1+ ?


----------



## avesta07

Guys anyone tried the ATH-CKS50TW yet? spec wise seems good. 

Been searching for good tws around 100-150 ish with good sound and mic for zoom/call. Any good recommendation? Or should i wait the review for the ATH above?


----------



## xSDMx

avesta07 said:


> Guys anyone tried the ATH-CKS50TW yet? spec wise seems good.
> 
> Been searching for good tws around 100-150 ish with good sound and mic for zoom/call. Any good recommendation? Or should i wait the review for the ATH above?



I loved my ATH-LS50s. I'm really excited to try these out once they hit the US. AptX, ANC, multi-point, looks like a good fit. I can't figure out if they have Qi or not


----------



## Ceeluh7

Nick24JJ said:


> Hey, thanks for your reply!
> 
> I thought about Melomania 1+ , as well, but they do not offer LDAC support. Also, I feel that I am going for the same sound signature, which is fine by me, I was just hoping to get something different. I was hoping to get something with LDAC. I can pay up to £200. I would go for the Sony but they are around £250 on Amazon UK.
> 
> According to your opinion, which sounds better? Sony WF-1000XM4 or Melomania 1+ ?


If you can get to $230ish the Technic Az60 is out... With Ldac. I am actually receiving them today so I cannot state how good they sound or the sound sig but they are a thought. Hiby WH2 has LDAC and a someone on here has had experience with that set and enjoyed it. There is a BA version as well as a Dynamic Driver Version. That retails now for around 115. Next I would say the Soundcore Liberty 3 Pro... Dude... They are great, with, alot of eq'ing and possible tip changes... But really I love this set now. Granted the EQ I have for them is nuts but the drivers are very nice and handle whatever you throw at them. I saw you have qudelix, I've had mine for about a year and love that thing still man... Good stuff


----------



## jant71 (Nov 6, 2021)

avesta07 said:


> Guys anyone tried the ATH-CKS50TW yet? spec wise seems good.
> 
> Been searching for good tws around 100-150 ish with good sound and mic for zoom/call. Any good recommendation? Or should i wait the review for the ATH above?


One early review which you can't put much stock in just one. Just hours in when that 9mm probably could use a few cycles to settle in. Said the ANC is MTW2 level and the mics are good and the ergonomics are solid. Also said the battery is amazing but they can't have tested it being less than a day old. Not worth that much as it is too early.

I do have one on the way. It is at DHL in the Cincy hub and cleared customs so probably get to me on Tuesday.


xSDMx said:


> I loved my ATH-LS50s. I'm really excited to try these out once they hit the US. AptX, ANC, multi-point, looks like a good fit. I can't figure out if they have Qi or not


No Qi. Don't think they like it. They haven't done anything with it yet.


----------



## Tommy C

Nick24JJ said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> Which true wireless IEMs would you suggest me, to match (as close as possible) my current setup?
> My current setup: Amazon Music HD --> my Android phone --> Qudelix 5K --> TRI I3
> ...





Ceeluh7 said:


> Cambridge Audio Melo 1+. I love that set man. Small/compact sounds fantastic with a great app. How much money are you willing to part with for an upgrade



I haven't tested the M1+ but I would say the M1+ are the safer choice. The Melomania Touch were a nightmare with their touch controls and charging case. 
Personally,  I found the CA MT too bassy and mids weren't crystal clear but if you like the M1 you may wanna go for the M1+.


----------



## erockg

Got my Beats Fit Pro yesterday.  Wow.  These things BLOW AWAY the AirPods Pro in every way so far.  They actually sound pretty damn good.  Transparency and ANC on par with the APP.  Phone calls are flawless.  They let you change the long hold setting to use for volume control (finally!).  Case is about the same size as the Liberty 3 Pro and definitely pocketable.  Fit is secure.  Bass is what you get from Beats.  Spatial Audio stereo is very cool.  They have the H1 chip and sensors just like the APP.  Leaning toward flipping my Colorware APPs.


----------



## erockg

Tommy C said:


> Sony WF-1000XM3 are $130 from Amazon or Sony direct.


Yeah, pretty much every brand you can think of is on sale at Amazon.  Jabra, Sony, Bose etc. all doing early Black Friday deals.  I went to my local Amazon store to return an item and as I'm walking out the guy says to me, "If you just returned something, you get an extra 20% off in the store."  I had considered repurchasing the Sony XM4s for the ANC and the guy says to me that they qualify.  So I walked out with the Sonys for $199.  Ugh.  That said, they do sound better than I remembered.  Probably psychosomatic!


----------



## Nick24JJ (Nov 6, 2021)

Ceeluh7 said:


> If you can get to $230ish the Technic Az60 is out... With Ldac. I am actually receiving them today so I cannot state how good they sound or the sound sig but they are a thought. Hiby WH2 has LDAC and a someone on here has had experience with that set and enjoyed it. There is a BA version as well as a Dynamic Driver Version. That retails now for around 115. Next I would say the Soundcore Liberty 3 Pro... Dude... They are great, with, alot of eq'ing and possible tip changes... But really I love this set now. Granted the EQ I have for them is nuts but the drivers are very nice and handle whatever you throw at them. I saw you have qudelix, I've had mine for about a year and love that thing still man... Good stuff


Again, thanks for your suggestions! 

Technics EAH-AZ60 = £199.99 at Amazon UK, right now
HiBy WH2 = £149.00
Soundcore by Anker Liberty 3 Pro = £139.99

I am thinking of getting the Melomania 1+ = £99.95

I've looked at their specs, and they have the exact same PROCESSOR as the Melomania 1. I took a glance at some reviews, and they say that the 1 plus is a sound upgrade compared to Melomania 1. I cannot understand how this happens, maybe it's the EQ?

In any case, I am looking forward to your impressions from the Technics EAH-AZ60! I am interested in sound quality and nothing else. If the 1+ won't sound much different than my current Melomania 1, and IF you will have good impressions from the EAH-AZ60, I will return them and get the Technics.

What is your opinion?


@Tommy C , thank you!


----------



## Ceeluh7

Tommy C said:


> I haven't tested the M1+ but I would say the M1+ are the safer choice. The Melomania Touch were a nightmare with their touch controls and charging case.
> Personally,  I found the CA MT too bassy and mids weren't crystal clear but if you like the M1 you may wanna go for the M1+.


Ya... A hair better clarity and tighter bass. The M1+ doesn't have the issues others have had with the MT. It's weird because I've had the MT since they came out and have not had an issue. Anyways, you are right Tommy the M1+ are a very good safe choice


----------



## Ceeluh7

Nick24JJ said:


> Again, thanks for your suggestions!
> 
> Technics EAH-AZ60 = £199.99 at Amazon UK, right now
> HiBy WH2 = £149.00
> ...


The upgrade is in the amping. Tonally it is the same but with better resolution, tighter BASS but still hits hard man. I love them


----------



## Tommy C

erockg said:


> Yeah, pretty much every brand you can think of is on sale at Amazon.  Jabra, Sony, Bose etc. all doing early Black Friday deals.  I went to my local Amazon store to return an item and as I'm walking out the guy says to me, "If you just returned something, you get an extra 20% off in the store."  I had considered repurchasing the Sony XM4s for the ANC and the guy says to me that they qualify.  So I walked out with the Sonys for $199.  Ugh.  That said, they do sound better than I remembered.  Probably psychosomatic!



LOL
So you basically being encouraged to return for the 20% off 😂


----------



## Nick24JJ

Ceeluh7 said:


> The upgrade is in the amping. Tonally it is the same but with better resolution, tighter BASS but still hits hard man. I love them


Alright then, ordered placed, will have them on Monday, looking forward to your impressions from the Technics EAH-AZ60 👍


----------



## Tommy C (Nov 6, 2021)

Nick24JJ said:


> Again, thanks for your suggestions!
> 
> Technics EAH-AZ60 = £199.99 at Amazon UK, right now
> HiBy WH2 = £149.00
> ...



Another recommendation that I have from a recent purchase is the 1More Comfobuds Pro the Aurora Blue edition since it’s the only version with eq.
Stem design as most people hate but they sound excellent.
Balanced, uncoloured sound. Strong bass that doesn’t bleed or impact the mids. They won’t be as bassy as the CA though.
When on sale the go for around $65.


----------



## BigZ12

erockg said:


> Got my Beats Fit Pro yesterday.  Wow.  These things BLOW AWAY the AirPods Pro in every way so far.  They actually sound pretty damn good.  Transparency and ANC on par with the APP.  Phone calls are flawless.  They let you change the long hold setting to use for volume control (finally!).  Case is about the same size as the Liberty 3 Pro and definitely pocketable.  Fit is secure.  Bass is what you get from Beats.  Spatial Audio stereo is very cool.  They have the H1 chip and sensors just like the APP.  Leaning toward flipping my Colorware APPs.


I will buy these, really looking forward to them, but of course... not available in Norway. At least until 2022... 
Anyone in the US who want to send me a pair?


----------



## jant71 (Nov 6, 2021)

Interesting comparison. Was thinking JBL would win that myself going in. The Reflex Flow Pro was my other choice vs. the AT but half the battery life, no aptX, liking the AT case design, controls and scheme better plus saving ~$15 the choice was the AT.


----------



## erockg

Tommy C said:


> LOL
> So you basically being encouraged to return for the 20% off 😂


Crazy, right?  For 80 bucks off those Sony buds I’m all in!


----------



## Nick24JJ

Tommy C said:


> Another recommendation that I have from a recent purchase is the 1More Comfobuds Pro the Aurora Blue edition since it’s the only version with eq.
> Stem design as most people hate but they sound excellent.
> Balanced, uncoloured sound. Strong bass that doesn’t bleed or impact the mids. They won’t be as bassy as the CA though.
> When on sale the go for around $65.


Thank you, I will keep it in mind! 

I've just ordered the Melomania 1 Plus. On Monday when they will arrive, I will compare them with the M1, with and without EQ. If they will sound like an upgrade, I will keep them. Otherwise, I will try the Technics EAH-AZ60


----------



## avesta07

xSDMx said:


> I loved my ATH-LS50s. I'm really excited to try these out once they hit the US. AptX, ANC, multi-point, looks like a good fit. I can't figure out if they have Qi or not


yep, on paper its really good at around mid range price. still waiting for someone to review them as im curious how the anc and mic quality on them


jant71 said:


> One early review which you can't put much stock in just one. Just hours in when that 9mm probably could use a few cycles to settle in. Said the ANC is MTW2 level and the mics are good and the ergonomics are solid. Also said the battery is amazing but they can't have tested it being less than a day old. Not worth that much as it is too early.
> 
> I do have one on the way. It is at DHL in the Cincy hub and cleared customs so probably get to me on Tuesday.
> 
> No Qi. Don't think they like it. They haven't done anything with it yet.


wow nice, will wait for your review !
also saw that you also use jabra elite 3, how's the mic quality?


----------



## dweaver

Ceeluh7 said:


> The upgrade is in the amping. Tonally it is the same but with better resolution, tighter BASS but still hits hard man. I love them


Are you referring to the AZ60?


----------



## Tommy C

erockg said:


> Crazy, right?  For 80 bucks off those Sony buds I’m all in!


Indeed madness.


----------



## jant71

avesta07 said:


> yep, on paper its really good at around mid range price. still waiting for someone to review them as im curious how the anc and mic quality on them
> 
> wow nice, will wait for your review !
> also saw that you also use jabra elite 3, how's the mic quality?


I think it is good. Can't complain at all but not gonna be the absolute best out there.

There are vids out with mic tests like Gamesky and this one(about 6.5 minutes in).

Elite 3 are a great deal. With the aptX probably a little better than the 7 Active I was originally gonna get. AptX, price, the case shape, and the earbuds shape. Liked the mint green color a bit but seems I would have gotten nothing more I would use for $100 extra.


----------



## xSDMx

@Ceeluh7 That $130 deal on the Z7s looks tempting. How do they compare to the H1s? SQ out of the box? How is the fit? Build quality? Ambient mode? Are you able to disconnect/pair quickly from just the earbuds themselves, or do you have to disconnect from the first device, etc.? The H1s have spoiled me with that feature.


----------



## Nick24JJ

dweaver said:


> Are you referring to the AZ60?


Hi, he was referring to the  Melomania 1 Plus, compared to Melomania 1


----------



## Ceeluh7

dweaver said:


> Are you referring to the AZ60?


No, I was referring to the M1+. There are a few other upgrades as well but nothing crazy, they still do not have wireless charging and a few other features. Just like the MT you buy these for the music... And that's about it


----------



## Ceeluh7

xSDMx said:


> @Ceeluh7 That $130 deal on the Z7s looks tempting. How do they compare to the H1s? SQ out of the box? How is the fit? Build quality? Ambient mode? Are you able to disconnect/pair quickly from just the earbuds themselves, or do you have to disconnect from the first device, etc.? The H1s have spoiled me with that feature.


Honestly, the Z7's are awesome. They are definitely an upgrade from the H1's. I'm telling you they are my best set from an audio perspective. I personally put them above gemini, ... That Is my opinion... I don't want anyone getting upset about that, only in sound quality... Which is a big distinction and something to consider based on your tws needs. These have a sub par hear thru mode and no ANC but sonically I would stack them against the top of the tws crop.


----------



## Ceeluh7

xSDMx said:


> @Ceeluh7 That $130 deal on the Z7s looks tempting. How do they compare to the H1s? SQ out of the box? How is the fit? Build quality? Ambient mode? Are you able to disconnect/pair quickly from just the earbuds themselves, or do you have to disconnect from the first device, etc.? The H1s have spoiled me with that feature.


Also, concerning build quality they are very well put together. It's obvious that Lypertek put thier best effort here while trying to keep it under 200. They pair very quickly with bt 5.2 and have aptx adaptive which... I have yet to be able to try so know that the only way I have evaluated these was thru aptx only. I haven't tried to go from device to device yet. I would but I do not have them with me so sorry about that. As far as fit, for me, they are the most snug pair I have and rival anc tws just with the passive isolation... But keep in mind that this is for my ears and I know others have not had the same outcome with fit.


----------



## bladefd

erockg said:


> Yeah, pretty much every brand you can think of is on sale at Amazon.  Jabra, Sony, Bose etc. all doing early Black Friday deals.  I went to my local Amazon store to return an item and as I'm walking out the guy says to me, "If you just returned something, you get an extra 20% off in the store."  I had considered repurchasing the Sony XM4s for the ANC and the guy says to me that they qualify.  So I walked out with the Sonys for $199.  Ugh.  That said, they do sound better than I remembered.  Probably psychosomatic!


Wait, there are Amazon stores? So you only get the 20% off for in-store purchases??


----------



## scubaphish (Nov 6, 2021)

Ceeluh7 said:


> Honestly, the Z7's are awesome. They are definitely an upgrade from the H1's. I'm telling you they are my best set from an audio perspective. I personally put them above gemini, ... That Is my opinion... I don't want anyone getting upset about that, only in sound quality... Which is a big distinction and something to consider based on your tws needs. These have a sub par hear thru mode and no ANC but sonically I would stack them against the top of the tws crop.


Tempting pitch to say the least! Thanks for the feedback.  Thing is I never thought I wanted ANC until I got a set of buds with ANC 🤷🤣

Edit: of course I have them in my Amazon cart now


----------



## Ceeluh7

scubaphish said:


> Tempting pitch to say the least! Thanks for the feedback.  Thing is I never thought I wanted ANC until I got a set of buds with ANC 🤷🤣
> 
> Edit: of course I have them in my Amazon cart now


Hey if you don't like em you can always return em... Amazon is awesome


----------



## xSDMx

Ah, Dang. It looks like pairing on the Z7 is different from the TEVIs. There's no way to enter pairing mode using just the earbud button on the Z7. Instead you have to either disconnect from the first device directly or put them back in the case, remove them, and then very quickly press and hold the button to enter pairing mode. 😔 So close.


----------



## erockg

bladefd said:


> Wait, there are Amazon stores? So you only get the 20% off for in-store purchases??


Yes, basically I went into the Amazon store to use their drop-off to return an item for my wife and as I was looking at the Sony XM4 headphones a sales rep came up to me and says “Hey, did you just return something? Because if you did, we can give you an additional 20% off that.”So I got the sale price plus additional 20% off.  Every now and then the store by me has this extra 20% off promotion for walk-ins.  Never applies for Sony.  Got lucky.


----------



## erockg

scubaphish said:


> Tempting pitch to say the least! Thanks for the feedback.  Thing is I never thought I wanted ANC until I got a set of buds with ANC 🤷🤣
> 
> Edit: of course I have them in my Amazon cart now


The Z7s are awesome.  Noble Falcon Pros with the exact same chip and driver setup, but tuned differently, are better IMO.  But for less than half the cost, those Z7s do not disappoint.  The instrument separation is pretty wonderful.  I did return them because like you, I do love my ANC 😉


----------



## quick1 (Nov 6, 2021)

Ceeluh7 said:


> I really enjoyed the Gemini's sound. There was something lacking there to me though. They sound awesome but there were inconsistencies with them. Like volume being higher on one side or the controls just not working. They were a mess. The sound was great. But, I got to thinking... "I am spending $300 bucks on a set that doesn't work very well."... Just took them back. I could see how one would love them with a correctly functioning set.
> I did get the Gemini's to seal, I tried tip after tip and unfortunately I cannot begin to know what pair I used as I just have a huge Tupperware full of tips from iems and tws. I just picked a set that worked. It did take awhile to find a good seal with these for me. I was going to send them back and get another pair but the AZ60's came out, were less expensive and prob function better so... I gave those a try and they are coming today actually. As far as music I listen to almost all genres... Really, I know that doesn't help very much but it is true, I listen to a very wide variety of music.


I probably would have tried a replacement set. All those issues though, that's just messed up. Mine worked out of the box but I had to get rid of those sad excuses for tips, then they came alive.
I seem to switch between heavy metal and alternative rock and I guess I like things a little heavy in bass but there must be some openness and detail there because in some of those 70's - 80's recordings there are details there that I like to hear. So far I think if there's an area that the Genini's are lacking it's space/ separation and detail. You can hear it on old ZZTop, Van Halen, and a few old Aerosmith tunes. They liked to play with effects in the studio and moving from side to side and trying to sound like an open event at times.


----------



## Ceeluh7

quick1 said:


> I probably would have tried a replacement set. All those issues though, that's just messed up. Mine worked out of the box but I had to get rid of those sad excuses for tips, then they came alive.
> I seem to switch between heavy metal and alternative rock and I guess I like things a little heavy in bass but there must be some openness and detail there because in some of those 70's - 80's recordings there are details there that I like to hear. So far I think if there's an area that the Genini's are lacking it's space/ separation and detail. You can hear it on old ZZTop, Van Halen, and a few old Aerosmith tunes. They liked to play with effects in the studio and moving from side to side and trying to sound like an open event at times.


Ya I struggled with the decision honestly. I saw the AZ60 's for 70-80 bucks less and said... Why not. I promise though if these don't work out I'll go back to the Gemini's. I know if I had a good set that I would've really enjoyed them.


----------



## adnhussn

Ceeluh7 said:


> Ya I struggled with the decision honestly. I saw the AZ60 's for 70-80 bucks less and said... Why not. I promise though if these don't work out I'll go back to the Gemini's. I know if I had a good set that I would've really enjoyed them.


Day 2 with the Technics AZ60. Really enjoying these...they seem to check every box for me: sounds like the Soundpeats H1, excellent mic, functional app, excellent noise cancelling and ambient mode, decent battery life, good volume, and multipoint connection (though can be a bit buggy). I hear the AZ70 are a bit less bassy and more sparkly but I don't find that the bass on the AZ60 muddles the sound so I haven't bothered EQing from the default setting.


----------



## Ceeluh7

adnhussn said:


> Day 2 with the Technics AZ60. Really enjoying these...they seem to check every box for me: sounds like the Soundpeats H1, excellent mic, functional app, excellent noise cancelling and ambient mode, decent battery life, good volume, and multipoint connection (though can be a bit buggy). I hear the AZ70 are a bit less bassy and more sparkly but I don't find that the bass on the AZ60 muddles the sound so I haven't bothered EQing from the default setting.


Dude... This is day one... So I literally said the exact same thing you did that these sound like the Soundpeats H1 but with greater resolution and a bit better Soundstage, cleaner. They sound like an H1 upgrade... Which... Is freaking awesome because I love the H1. So far (still early) I am very happy, so many features. More robust than the LP3, in fact doing a side by side with them I realize just how thin the Mids are on LP3. The Bass is clean, tight enough, vocals are nice... Ya know I'll stop there as I don't want to hype these but I will say.... Pleasantly surprised


----------



## dweaver (Nov 6, 2021)

Starting to wish I curbed some of my spending, I would almost have enough for AZ60 already.

The Panasonic RP-HD610 do sound pretty darn good though. Certainly better than the WH-1000XM3 at least signature and detail wise.

But I have a suspicion the AZ60 might be close to perfect TWS for me.


----------



## Ceeluh7

dweaver said:


> Starting to wish I curbed some of my spending, I would almost have enough for AZ60 already.
> 
> The Panasonic RP-HD610 do sound pretty darn good though. Certainly better than the WH-1000XM3 at least signature and detail wise.
> 
> But I have a suspicion the AZ60 might be close to perfect TWS for me.


I want to throw a review up here of these already man, but I'll wait and give these time. To me they are the most complete set I've seen and heard. Sound wise, feature wise, also a big thing to me which I love is the case in its portability as the case fits in the small pocket of my jeans really well, which... To me is pretty cool. I'll let the drivers settle but for 230ish bucks they are pretty nice man. Glad you like the Panasonic, those look real nice, I'm sure they sound very good as well.


----------



## VICosPhi (Nov 6, 2021)

Technics AZ60 are really really good! Here is my take:

- Mids on the level of B&O EQ. Just beautiful.
- Midbass is quite elevated, a bit too much for me but EQ can fix that.
- Sub-bass is there, but could have used more sub bass than excessively elevated mid-bass imo.
- Treble is there. Not sparkly/splashy but just enough.
- These have freaking *MUTE *shortcut when on a phone call !!!!!
- Microphone on these is extremely good for phone calls. These and Liberty 3 Pros have best microphones imo
- Holy cow these are LOUD.
- Soundstage is good but not as wide as Libery 3 Pro
- ANC is very very good. No complaints.
- Transparency is good but not completely natural sounding. Much better than Liberty 3 Pro. Hopefully firmware updates will make it even better.
- LDAC + multipoint + good mic + mute shortcut make these the most complete TWS imo
- Case seems flimsy but I like that it is tiny.

The only two issues I am having with these is:
1. Right bud drains a lot faster than left bud. Almost 20% difference
2. If you customize left bud to have ANC/transparency on single tap and right bud for play/pause track, for some reason, the single tap does not work on right bud to play/pause tracks. And I did update to latest firmware but no luck... Default touch controls seem to work however.

Silver are fine but wish Amazon had the black color...


----------



## Tommy C

Ceeluh7 said:


> Dude... This is day one... So I literally said the exact same thing you did that these sound like the Soundpeats H1 but with greater resolution and a bit better Soundstage, cleaner. They sound like an H1 upgrade... Which... Is freaking awesome because I love the H1. So far (still early) I am very happy, so many features. More robust than the LP3, in fact doing a side by side with them I realize just how thin the Mids are on LP3. The Bass is clean, tight enough, vocals are nice... Ya know I'll stop there as I don't want to hype these but I will say.... Pleasantly surprised



I need another set of TWS like I need a hole in my head but I'm intrigued. 
Lypertek Z7 or the AZ60? Granted the Technics are feature-rich and a better package overall but how do they match in terms of sound quality?


----------



## Tommy C

VICosPhi said:


> Technics AZ60 are really really good! Here is my take:
> 
> - Mids on the level of B&O EQ. Just beautiful.
> - Midbass is quite elevated, a bit too much for me but EQ can fix that.
> ...



I like what I see except the soundstage, mid-bass and the battery drainage in one bud... 
I'll keep an eye on future reviews re FW updates.


----------



## bladefd

Approximately how many hours do you guys get with AZ60 using LDAC?


----------



## Ceeluh7

Tommy C said:


> I need another set of TWS like I need a hole in my head but I'm intrigued.
> Lypertek Z7 or the AZ60? Granted the Technics are feature-rich and a better package overall but how do they match in terms of sound quality?


I'm still trying to figure that out. Tonally these are different sets. Z7 is More capable and are a step up in SQ, wider Soundstage, better separation, very polished. The Z7 are more warm but not by a wide difference and I prefer how controlled the Z7 is. Z7 has much more headroom in volume without distortion. However the AZ60 (only have had them for a day) are very clean in their own right and I can't find many faults. They sound really really nice so far. I could see how a person would prefer these as well. Sorry if that does not help at all. I hvnt had enough time to try all genres and complicated tracks. Cymbal strikes are nice, bass guitar growls, bass is tight but not as deep as Z7. Highs are well presented and do not in any way (to me) induce fatigue. The Mids are less recessed than the Z7 and sound good. I should add that this is with a lil eq, which, the AZ60 handle eq pretty good. I'll have a better opinion with more time


----------



## Tommy C

Ceeluh7 said:


> I'm still trying to figure that out. Tonally these are different sets. Z7 is More capable and are a step up in SQ, wider Soundstage, better separation, very polished. The Z7 are more warm but not by a wide difference and I prefer how controlled the Z7 is. Z7 has much more headroom in volume without distortion. However the AZ60 (only have had them for a day) are very clean in their own right and I can't find many faults. They sound really really nice so far. I could see how a person would prefer these as well. Sorry if that does not help at all. I hvnt had enough time to try all genres and complicated tracks. Cymbal strikes are nice, bass guitar growls, bass is tight but not as deep as Z7. Highs are well presented and do not in any way (to me) induce fatigue. The Mids are less recessed than the Z7 and sound good. I should add that this is with a lil eq, which, the AZ60 handle eq pretty good. I'll have a better opinion with more time



Thanks man, I appreciate the summary!


----------



## Ceeluh7

Tommy C said:


> Thanks man, I appreciate the summary!


I want to a/b these next to eachother, I spent more time putting these against the LP3. Prob spend time tomorrow with Z7 and AZ60 side by side.


----------



## AdamQK

Hi -- I recently got the Melomania Touch earbuds, based on the excellent reviews, and while I managed to connect them to my Moto G8 Power mobile with a bit of faffing, I seem unable to connect them to my Shanling M6.  No matter what I do, it says, "Melomania connected!" immediately followed by, "Melomania disconnected" and the bluetooth list shows "Melomania L (no media)".  I've been in contact with Cambridge audio, who seem baffled by the mere mention of the Shanling M6 and I had to remind them that it was an Android machine and therefore really should work with earbuds (no problem with my Mpow X3s or Jabra Elite 75s).  Has anyone else had any kind of trouble like this?

Thanks,
Adam K


----------



## slatermethuen

AdamQK said:


> Hi -- I recently got the Melomania Touch earbuds, based on the excellent reviews, and while I managed to connect them to my Moto G8 Power mobile with a bit of faffing, I seem unable to connect them to my Shanling M6.  No matter what I do, it says, "Melomania connected!" immediately followed by, "Melomania disconnected" and the bluetooth list shows "Melomania L (no media)".  I've been in contact with Cambridge audio, who seem baffled by the mere mention of the Shanling M6 and I had to remind them that it was an Android machine and therefore really should work with earbuds (no problem with my Mpow X3s or Jabra Elite 75s).  Has anyone else had any kind of trouble like this?
> 
> Thanks,
> Adam K


I have the same symptoms when trying to connect to an LG television.   CA support told me that the reason is that the MT firmware doesn't currently support 48k sample rates and the engineers are working on a fix.  Maybe your device has the same issue?   I was given a beta firmware to try which fixed the issue, but introduced other problems.   This was about 3 months ago, so hopefully there'll be a proper fix soon.


----------



## AdamQK

slatermethuen said:


> I have the same symptoms when trying to connect to an LG television.   CA support told me that the reason is that the MT firmware doesn't currently support 48k sample rates and the engineers are working on a fix.  Maybe your device has the same issue?   I was given a beta firmware to try which fixed the issue, but introduced other problems.   This was about 3 months ago, so hopefully there'll be a proper fix soon.


Thanks for the reply, but I'm not sure -- the M6 is a pretty respected music player/DAC, and I wouldn't have thought the sample rates would have made a difference in music, would it? Wouldn't that be down to the individual tracks and how they're ripped?  I mean, I'm just trying to connect the device itself, and  they pair, but then they just immediately disconnect.  I haven't even introduced it to the music, yet.


----------



## slatermethuen

AdamQK said:


> Thanks for the reply, but I'm not sure -- the M6 is a pretty respected music player/DAC, and I wouldn't have thought the sample rates would have made a difference in music, would it? Wouldn't that be down to the individual tracks and how they're ripped?  I mean, I'm just trying to connect the device itself, and  they pair, but then they just immediately disconnect.  I haven't even introduced it to the music, yet.


I'm not an expert in Bluetooth, but I'd expect the device initiating the connection would specify its capabilities; the MT is probably rejecting the connection because it is being asked for something that it doesn't support.


----------



## AdamQK

slatermethuen said:


> I'm not an expert in Bluetooth, but I'd expect the device initiating the connection would specify its capabilities; the MT is probably rejecting the connection because it is being asked for something that it doesn't support.


Thanks -- I'm not an expert in anything, so I'm baffled!


----------



## Ceeluh7

AdamQK said:


> Thanks -- I'm not an expert in anything, so I'm baffled!


This is baffling. My MT connect perfectly to everything. I have mine connected to my Samsung Galaxy Note 10+ as well as my Fiio M11, Fiio M6, IPad. Hmm, I'm sorry you are having this issue man, I know what kind of a bummer that can be.


----------



## regancipher

Anyone got the Tronsmart Onyx Prime yet? Putting them through testing today, not bad at all. Surprisingly very impressive.


----------



## Juturna

So I've spent a few days with the Comfobuds Pro now, and honestly: I like them.
They sound decent (okay, they sound better than good) but not fantastic, more bass than I expected. They never sound harsh which is cool, but they do lack a bit of sparkle and detail in the mids for me. Extremely comfortable though, and the mic seems very capable.

ANC is okay, but i'm going to see if I can some slightly better sound and ANC if I switch tips, none of the ones included are large enough for my ears. They fit and stay in place, and maybe this is sort of the way they're supposed to fit (i'm not used to buds that aren't meant to fit deep in your ear canal honestly) but i'd like a bit more seal.

Overall they serve their purpose really well right now, letting my ears rest a bit from the Devialet Geminis that are absolute earwreckers for me even if I like how they sound. For the price they are a steal, and if I wasn't such an annoying TWS-fanboy chasing perfection where none can be had, I could easily see myself being content with these as my daily drivers.


----------



## vsg28 (Nov 7, 2021)

Newly announced (on Kickstarter) Peacock Flight, I have the tamest color option lol:


----------



## vsg28

Also, while I am here, the Padmate Pamu Z1 in blue:


----------



## xSDMx

regancipher said:


> Anyone got the Tronsmart Onyx Prime yet? Putting them through testing today, not bad at all. Surprisingly very impressive.



Specs looks completely identical to the Soundpeats H1. Literally just $5 cheaper and with stems. Would be very interested in a comparison.


----------



## regancipher

xSDMx said:


> Specs looks completely identical to the Soundpeats H1. Literally just $5 cheaper and with stems. Would be very interested in a comparison.


There are some likenesses. The H1 have a very boosted subbass that borders on offensive on some tracks - it can be tamed with the EQ of course, but otherwise they sound great, pretty neutral.

The Onyx Prime are boosted all across the lower frequencies. It's less smooth in the higher frequencies than the H1, a little more clarity but less detail, in fact they're arguably harsher in the trebles.

Only been testing for a few hours so just initial impressions so far.


----------



## xSDMx

regancipher said:


> There are some likenesses. The H1 have a very boosted subbass that borders on offensive on some tracks - it can be tamed with the EQ of course, but otherwise they sound great, pretty neutral.
> 
> The Onyx Prime are boosted all across the lower frequencies. It's less smooth in the higher frequencies than the H1, a little more clarity but less detail, in fact they're arguably harsher in the trebles.
> 
> Only been testing for a few hours so just initial impressions so far.


Thank you! Will be interesting to hear about the fit and call quality. I suspect those will be the primary differentiators.


----------



## Tommy C (Nov 7, 2021)

Juturna said:


> So I've spent a few days with the Comfobuds Pro now, and honestly: I like them.
> They sound decent (okay, they sound better than good) but not fantastic, more bass than I expected. They never sound harsh which is cool, but they do lack a bit of sparkle and detail in the mids for me. Extremely comfortable though, and the mic seems very capable.
> 
> ANC is okay, but i'm going to see if I can some slightly better sound and ANC if I switch tips, none of the ones included are large enough for my ears. They fit and stay in place, and maybe this is sort of the way they're supposed to fit (i'm not used to buds that aren't meant to fit deep in your ear canal honestly) but i'd like a bit more seal.
> ...


Glad you like them. I believe the sparkle and the highs related to the tips. The stock tips are a bit finicky and I tried tip rolling as they will take standard tips as well and highs were nice and crisp. The bass will mellow down I believe. That’s how I felt with mine.
When you go to the app they have the burn-in option, 4 different cycles I believe so it’s worth a shot.
Like you I was a bit surprised with the fit as these don’t go deep to your ear canal as they just sit there pretty shallow took me 2-3 days to get the hang of it but sound wise compared to what I currently use I find them excellent and detailed enough for my liking.
Another thing to try is the different modes. Each mode impacts the sound a little bit.  I’ll do some a/b’ing tonight but I’m pretty sure the Comfobuds Pro beats the Sennheiser CX 400BT and the Fiil T1XS in details. In the past I compared them to the CA MT and the Soundcore Liberty 2 Pro Plus and the Comfobuds Pro were much more to my liking.

Edit: Just to add,  I’m also very treble sensitive so I enjoy the sparkle but it’s  well within my comfort zone. Some may prefer brighter highs however for me it’s just right as it’s non-fatiguing but doesn’t sound like dark at all.


----------



## Juturna (Nov 8, 2021)

Tommy C said:


> Glad you like them. I believe the sparkle and the highs related to the tips. The stock tips are a bit finicky and I tried tip rolling as they will take standard tips as well and highs were nice and crisp. The bass will mellow down I believe. That’s how I felt with mine.
> When you go to the app they have the burn-in option, 4 different cycles I believe so it’s worth a shot.
> Like you I was a bit surprised with the fit as these don’t go deep to your ear canal as they just sit there pretty shallow took me 2-3 days to get the hang of it but sound wise compared to what I currently use I find them excellent and detailed enough for my liking.
> Another thing to try is the different modes. Each mode impacts the sound a little bit.  I’ll do some a/b’ing tonight but I’m pretty sure the Comfobuds Pro beats the Sennheiser CX 400BT and the Fiil T1XS in details. In the past I compared them to the CA MT and the Soundcore Liberty 2 Pro Plus and the Comfobuds Pro were much more to my liking.
> ...


Yeah it could be! The standard tips are okay in all honesty but a bit confusing in sizing because they have 4 different included tips right? And one set of the tips seem to be a lot more "flat" and wide while the rest are a bit more average/normal.
I needed to wear different tips for my ears too, so I'm thinking about getting some new tips next month or so. Not sure if i'm going Spinfits or AZLA though.


I haven't tried the CX 400BT, but I just tried the Sennheiser MTW2's and then switched back to the Comfobuds and the Sennheisers just STOMP the Comfobuds into the ground on details and I just feel like I can "feel" the music so much more on the Sennheisers.
For some reason I don't 100% love the MTW2's sound all throughout its range, but there is something about the soundstage and clarity in those that are way beyond anything else i've heard in a TWS. I've put them up for sale and i'm kinda sad about seeing them go because I just love the sound even if it has points I don't love with the sound itself (slightly too sibilant, slightly off-sounding upper mids I _think_. ), not so sure about what I think about it overall as TWS earbuds though.

I think male vocals sound better or at least more present on the Comfobuds but those areas that are just above it with synths just sound so much better on the Senns.
I do think the Comfobuds are overall a lot less likely to present the music in any sort of offensive way and that's a damn solid thing to do, and few earbuds that succeed with in my opinion. I really like the warmth and comforting sound of these, but the soundstage is slightly too narrow and the clarity is a few notches from what I would've wanted.


----------



## Juturna (Nov 8, 2021)

To continue my previous post:

I would love to hear which TWS's that really make you guys FEEL the music the most? Weird question but i'm just curious because i'm looking for something to replace my Sennheiser MTW2's with later this year, and those are the earbuds that gets me the most moist  in all my orifices honestly. The Devialet Geminis don't come close to it to me even if I love them for electronic music with that thumping bass, and the Sony WF-1000XM4's that i've seen people say makes them feel stuff just left me completely cold and uninterested no matter how much I EQ'd them.

I just love the airy yet crystal-clear quality of the mids and highs on the Sennheisers even though though they sometime sound lacking in presence, I guess? The bass is also sometimes lacking in my opinion, probably wouldn't be if I could EQ it properly on an Android phone, but I feel like it's just sub bass and very little mid-bass presence which is somewhat my preference but not at this imbalance.


----------



## myltz400

Tommy C said:


> Glad you like them. I believe the sparkle and the highs related to the tips. The stock tips are a bit finicky and I tried tip rolling as they will take standard tips as well and highs were nice and crisp. The bass will mellow down I believe. That’s how I felt with mine.
> When you go to the app they have the burn-in option, 4 different cycles I believe so it’s worth a shot.
> Like you I was a bit surprised with the fit as these don’t go deep to your ear canal as they just sit there pretty shallow took me 2-3 days to get the hang of it but sound wise compared to what I currently use I find them excellent and detailed enough for my liking.
> Another thing to try is the different modes. Each mode impacts the sound a little bit.  I’ll do some a/b’ing tonight but I’m pretty sure the Comfobuds Pro beats the Sennheiser CX 400BT and the Fiil T1XS in details. In the past I compared them to the CA MT and the Soundcore Liberty 2 Pro Plus and the Comfobuds Pro were much more to my liking.
> ...


Excited to hear about this approach, I am back after a long hiatus due to ear issues.  I have learned from my experience that the deep canal buds are not the best for a healthy ear.  It appears that the outer ear fitment is being embraced by a lot of companies.  I really wanted the Sony WF-100XM4 s.  They are so great on paper but for me a huge let down.  Sound and ANC are great...as long as you shove them down in your ear and keep fiddling with them which leads to fatigue and discomfort.  My personal idea of great earbuds is to pop them in, get lost in the music, and stop critiquing.  I value reviewers that say they keep grabbing a particular pair above the many others in their collection just because they work for them.  For me that has been the Galaxy Buds Live, probably because of the semi open design.  

Anyway, just received the Beats Fit Pro.  They seat securely on the outside of the ear canal and use a little wing for additional support although I'm pretty sure you could just cut that part off if you aren't using them for back flips.  So far they are better for sound, ANC, and comfort than the Sony s simply because they are easy to put in and forget they are there.  As always I don't claim to be an Audio File, all our ears are different but I do know when sound is an intriguing experience.


----------



## Ckro (Nov 8, 2021)

VICosPhi said:


> Technics AZ60 are really really good! Here is my take:
> 
> - Mids on the level of B&O EQ. Just beautiful.
> - Midbass is quite elevated, a bit too much for me but EQ can fix that.
> ...



Thanks for the impressions on the AZ60. I understand that they're great for phone calls - is it still true outdoor with the usual noises (cars, wind, etc.) ?
I usually have the best results for phone calls with stems, where the mic is closer to the mouth. But if the AZ60 do the job correctly outside, I may take a pair.

Otherwise I think i'll consider the Comfobuds pro instead.

thanks

Edit: I'm coming from the Sony XM3 that I hate.. I find them big, ugly, and the fit is not great for me. Also, the call quality is not that great, I had a pair of SoundPeats Air3 that were way better for calls but that provided 0 isolation.
I also had that Grado gt220 for a while. Sound and fit were great but again, the mic was pretty useless and the controls were just impossible to use when it was cold outside... So looking for a new pair to replace these.
My use case is: good mic capacities so that I can take calls outside on the street, good isolation (active or passive) so that I can listen to music in the subway. If the SQ is great, all the better, so if you have any idea other than the AZ60 or the Comfobuds Pro...


----------



## erockg

erockg said:


> The form factor looks awful.  For $199, it's got to be a single driver 215-esque bud.  I'll stick with my TW2 with the SE846 for now... until the itch takes over.


Back to eat my words.  My wild TWS hair could not be controlled.  I have to say, they are pretty much what the TW2s are sans the hook and the modular aspect.  Shure Play app works flawlessly.  Passthrough is great.  Passive isolation is VERY good with the Comply tips they include.  Fortunately, I'm a big Shure fan so I have a ton of tips to play with - Hey now.  Soundstage is wide, clean.  Bass is nice, hits great.  Some sub bass in there that works well with my music of choice.  I'm sure I can spend days tweaking the EQ but I what I use for my SE846 transferred over so that was great.  They are smaller than I expected, smaller than the Bose QC and maybe the same size of the Sony XM3.  Also, looks like they molded the shape of a Shure IEM on the back if you look closely.  They fit me perfectly.  Incredibly comfortable.  I'll be testing them on calls later today, but I did record my voice using the Voice Memos app on my iPhone and sounded perfect/clear and louder than some other buds I own.  Eventually, I'll do a few mile walk outdoors to test BT connection.  Zero BT issues here working from home.  No, they do not have better sound than my SE846 of course, but they do hold their own.  Incredibly curious if these are just a reworked SE215.  To me, they sound BETTER.  Listening to a lot of 80s metal today and they are delightful.  Immersive.  Case is big but feels solid and has a nice padded snap when closed.  Plastic is on par with the TW2 case, not cheap, but still plastic.  No wireless charging, but the buds do have all the features I need, including volume control.  One feature I love with the TW2 and these Aonic Free is when you pause music, transparency kicks on.


----------



## C_Lindbergh

Welcome back @erockg 

Have you checked out the new Grell Audio TW1? 
https://grellaudio.com/en

They are deffo the most interesting upcoming TWS imo:
* Qualcomm 5141 SoC
*First Qualcomm TWS with multipoint
*Unique design
* Made by a Former Sennheiser engineer


----------



## erockg

C_Lindbergh said:


> Welcome back @erockg
> 
> Have you checked out the new Grell Audio TW1?
> https://grellaudio.com/en
> ...


I have seen them out there.  I'm sure I'll try them out once they're available here in the US


----------



## jant71

erockg said:


> Back to eat my words.  My wild TWS hair could not be controlled.  I have to say, they are pretty much what the TW2s are sans the hook and the modular aspect.  Shure Play app works flawlessly.  Passthrough is great.  Passive isolation is VERY good with the Comply tips they include.  Fortunately, I'm a big Shure fan so I have a ton of tips to play with - Hey now.  Soundstage is wide, clean.  Bass is nice, hits great.  Some sub bass in there that works well with my music of choice.  I'm sure I can spend days tweaking the EQ but I what I use for my SE846 transferred over so that was great.  They are smaller than I expected, smaller than the Bose QC and maybe the same size of the Sony XM3.  Also, looks like they molded the shape of a Shure IEM on the back if you look closely.  They fit me perfectly.  Incredibly comfortable.  I'll be testing them on calls later today, but I did record my voice using the Voice Memos app on my iPhone and sounded perfect/clear and louder than some other buds I own.  Eventually, I'll do a few mile walk outdoors to test BT connection.  Zero BT issues here working from home.  No, they do not have better sound than my SE846 of course, but they do hold their own.  Incredibly curious if these are just a reworked SE215.  To me, they sound BETTER.  Listening to a lot of 80s metal today and they are delightful.  Immersive.  Case is big but feels solid and has a nice padded snap when closed.  Plastic is on par with the TW2 case, not cheap, but still plastic.  No wireless charging, but the buds do have all the features I need, including volume control.  One feature I love with the TW2 and these Aonic Free is when you pause music, transparency kicks on.


Thanks for being the guinea pig.  Can't be just a 215. Even if they matched the 215 wired sound that was a little overpriced for $99. Don't think you would be that impressed if they were. Still too big and I doubt they would be good for me out at the park esp. with the fall winds with that shape. Cool that they auto ambient since why not? No reason not to. Does the case take other types of tips?


----------



## TooNice

Hello. I have never bought a TWS and I am looking to get something up to £100 and I've read many (though not every) pages in this thread, a bunch of reviews on YouTube and Reddit, and it has helped me make a short list, but I need a nudge in the right direction.

For a start I would like to point out that I am looking for a TWS mainly for commuting, outdoor, and exercise use, and I want to be confident that they will stay in my ear when I am jogging.

As for sound preference, I tend to favour something that is a bit more airy, wider soundstage, neutral sounding (leaning towards brighter than darker), with tight punchy bass (I suspect that I prefer less bass than average).. though I understand (or at least do not expect) too much of that of that airy, wide soundstage in an earbuds.

SQ, and exercise suitability are the priority. Call quality etc. would be nice to have, but secondary in importance.
IPX rating wise, the more the better IMO since I will be using it for exercise / outdoor.
aptX Adaptive, or some kind of low latency mode would be nice to have but again secondary.

Here are my current shortlist in order of current preference on paper based on what I have read:

- Lypertek PurePlay Z3 2.0 (I like what I read about the sound, long battery life, IPX7. One thing I would like to confirm is whether the fit is suitable for exercise).
- Cambridge Audio Melomania Touch (Less IPX rating is a pity, but is it true that the wings help stay in the ears more? And how does the sound, in particularly soundstage compare to the Z3. Some concerns about connectivity issues some people seem to be encountering. On the other hand, I can find it more discounted than any other on this list)
- Edifier NeoBuds Pro (Throwing it in the list because I've read some YT reviewers saying very good things about it, but I haven't seen it compared to the Z3 or the Melomania Touch)
- Moondrop Sparks (No IPX rating almost rule it out, but I would still like to know how the sound compares to the other TWS)

I have one more question. AFAIK, the Qualcomm QCC3040 SoC supports aptX Adaptive, but I have seen some TWS with that chip that list support for Adaptive, and others that do not. Are there more requirements than just having a SoC that supports Adaptive for the TWS to support Adaptive? (Assuming of course that the connected device also supports it).


----------



## jant71 (Nov 8, 2021)

TooNice said:


> Hello. I have never bought a TWS and I am looking to get something up to £100 and I've read many (though not every) pages in this thread, a bunch of reviews on YouTube and Reddit, and it has helped me make a short list, but I need a nudge in the right direction.
> 
> For a start I would like to point out that I am looking for a TWS mainly for commuting, outdoor, and exercise use, and I want to be confident that they will stay in my ear when I am jogging.
> 
> ...


The Hakii Action check most of the boxes. Havit/Hakii is a well regarded brand actually, gaming mode, IPX7, tighter punchy bass with the DLC driver, open sound, gonna stay put, and the price.


----------



## Tommy C

Juturna said:


> Yeah it could be! The standard tips are okay in all honesty but a bit confusing in sizing because they have 4 different included tips right? And one set of the tips seem to be a lot more "flat" and wide while the rest are a bit more average/normal.
> I needed to wear different tips for my ears too, so I'm thinking about getting some new tips next month or so. Not sure if i'm going Spinfits or AZLA though.
> 
> 
> ...


Yeah, the stock tips are confusing as a couple of them are wider and not as high  so they kind of fit completely different. All the stock tips fit me in a strange way, it just depends how you like the fit. 
I believe the CX 400BT is very similar if not identical to the MTW2 sans the features and the hi-res option in the app (or something similar to that) and while I really enjoy the sound and the imagining something about the soundstage doesn’t work for me for certain genres. 
Best I can describe is as it’s like sitting in a concert hall around 5 rows away from the main stage and while it works fine for the highs and lows the mids and vocals at times don’t sound close enough for me and I need to crank up the volume.   Details are good and the sound is pleasant but the Comfobuds Pro to my ears sound more effortless which better mids. The bass is strong but got a bit tighter over time and the highs are nice and crisp so while they are not technically the best for indoors and outdoors use I like them a lot despite the stem lol. 
One thing that bothers me with the CX 400BT is that there isn’t much headroom and I need to crank up the volume on poorly recorded tracks. 
I also think that over the years my taste has changed. I now prefer earphones that offer strong mids that aren’t colored. In my youngin’ days it was all about the V shape sound signature.


----------



## erockg

jant71 said:


> Thanks for being the guinea pig.  Can't be just a 215. Even if they matched the 215 wired sound that was a little overpriced for $99. Don't think you would be that impressed if they were. Still too big and I doubt they would be good for me out at the park esp. with the fall winds with that shape. Cool that they auto ambient since why not? No reason not to. Does the case take other types of tips?


No ANC, so I don't think wind would be a factor.  They're pretty snug too.  Yes, the case can accommodate the Westone tips (large) and the other longer Comply Shure tips. Most buds (and I've tried way too many) do not have auto-ambient, so this IMO is a cool bonus


----------



## VICosPhi

Ckro said:


> Thanks for the impressions on the AZ60. I understand that they're great for phone calls - is it still true outdoor with the usual noises (cars, wind, etc.) ?
> I usually have the best results for phone calls with stems, where the mic is closer to the mouth. But if the AZ60 do the job correctly outside, I may take a pair.
> 
> Otherwise I think i'll consider the Comfobuds pro instead.
> ...



Mic quality is really good even outside. Liberty3Pro and these AZ60 have equally good mic IMO. Technics have "Just my voice" which isolates your voice from the background noise which helps in outdoor noisy conditions. However, Liberty3Pro also do this without a fancy name and are almost as good. I agree that stem mics work the best but whatever these guys have done + technology evolving as well, works really well. These sound better than the Edifier NB2 TWS which had stem mics.


----------



## Ckro

Thanks ! @Tommy C : can you have calls outside with the Comfobuds Pro ? Even with cars etc. around ?
I guess it should work well with the stem form factor but it depends on the mic quality and sound treatment as well.


----------



## Juturna

Ckro said:


> Thanks ! @Tommy C : can you have calls outside with the Comfobuds Pro ? Even with cars etc. around ?
> I guess it should work well with the stem form factor but it depends on the mic quality and sound treatment as well.


I can answer a bit for that, and the answer is yes. They're not the BEST at filtering out background noise but they're very good at picking up your voice so people usually hear your voice well enough that background noise will not be a big issue even if it can still be heard.


----------



## Juturna

Tommy C said:


> Yeah, the stock tips are confusing as a couple of them are wider and not as high  so they kind of fit completely different. All the stock tips fit me in a strange way, it just depends how you like the fit.
> I believe the CX 400BT is very similar if not identical to the MTW2 sans the features and the hi-res option in the app (or something similar to that) and while I really enjoy the sound and the imagining something about the soundstage doesn’t work for me for certain genres.
> Best I can describe is as it’s like sitting in a concert hall around 5 rows away from the main stage and while it works fine for the highs and lows the mids and vocals at times don’t sound close enough for me and I need to crank up the volume.   Details are good and the sound is pleasant but the Comfobuds Pro to my ears sound more effortless which better mids. The bass is strong but got a bit tighter over time and the highs are nice and crisp so while they are not technically the best for indoors and outdoors use I like them a lot despite the stem lol.
> One thing that bothers me with the CX 400BT is that there isn’t much headroom and I need to crank up the volume on poorly recorded tracks.
> I also think that over the years my taste has changed. I now prefer earphones that offer strong mids that aren’t colored. In my youngin’ days it was all about the V shape sound signature.


Yeah, but the hi-fi tuning thing in the Sennheiser MTW2's is what makes them sound so damn good. Just on stock settings they're good but not anywhere near as impressing. 
But yeah I think all the tips fit me except the smallest, but also none of them really fit me if that makes sense? Well, the left ear where I use the largest "normal" tip it's pretty solid. For the right ear I had to use the wider tip because my right ear in general is pretty weird and I usually do get fit issues with that ear, but anyway I would want a slightly larger tip there too. Tried some from the other TWS's I have and I got way better fit and isolation, but unfortunately I felt like sound quality suffered a bit. 
I understand what you mean about the vocals though, they do get slightly too far away. Honestly what I want is the vocals to be a bit closer like in the comfobuds, but the instruments to have more depth and width like the Sennheisers. Maybe that doesn't make sense or wouldn't work in a practical sense but on paper that sounds good. 

But yeah, like you said, the Comfobuds really sound pleasant. They don't sound the BEST, but they sound very effortless and they really nailed the type of sound where nothing sticks out as bad or harsh, but still manages to not sound OVERLY dark in the treble region even if I would love a bit more sparkle. 
I'm listening to an album now that I thought had really shouty (not stylistically but the recording of it) and overly sharp vocals, and with these it sounds really good and makes me appreciate the album way more than I did before, I can tell that the strings of the album lacks a little bit not getting to show a bit of sparkle and "bite" from that treble region not being boosted more. I can't tell if the treble region is rolled off or just simply "flat", but yeah. 

The stem design might not be the most appealing from an aesthetic standpoint, but I like knowing that the mics are pointed towards my mouth. With regular TWS earbuds I feel like the way I need to wear some pairs to get the best fit I sometimes aim the mics in a position that's slightly off so the voice quality/volume degrades slightly. 
I'm definitely going away slightly from the V-shaped sound that I loved when I was younger, but I can still appreciate it from time to time, but somewhat neutral earbuds are what floats my boat the most. If the EQ included with the comfobuds also had like a regular 5-10 band EQ and not just presets I think these would be 10/10 for value.


----------



## Ckro

Is there any passive isolation with the Comfobuds Pro ? Or is the ANC sufficient so that they can be used in the subway for example?


----------



## Thesonofkrypton (Nov 9, 2021)

Had a week with the Sennheiser CX Plus, quite impressed with the ANC once you get the fit right, obviously nothing compared to the XM4 but at the price point, very decent.  The tips supplied with the CX plus are awful though.  Every tws should come with the comply like tips that the XM4 come with, such a great fit and seal.  Soundstage was probably what stood out most with the CX Plus, bass was there but was flabby and didn't have the same kind of impact as the XM4, the app is not too shabby either, transparency mode was great, good set for the asking price I have to say. Used them on a windy day as well and they dealt with the wind noise pretty good, was surprised.

Gave them to the missus though, she likes them.  I didn't like the feel of the material used on the buds and case as well, felt cheap and more importantly slippery. It ticks a lot of boxes, but not for me, lacks the polish of the xm4 on all fronts.


----------



## Tommy C (Nov 9, 2021)

Juturna said:


> Ckro said:
> 
> 
> > Thanks ! @Tommy C : can you have calls outside with the Comfobuds Pro ? Even with cars etc. around ?
> ...


That’s exactly my experience during phone calls. I live in a super busy and noisy city and usually take calls outside. People can hear me very well but the mics will pick up some background noise so they don’t filter the sound completely but most people said it’s perfectly fine but they could tell I was outside. Compared to other TWS that I use for calls the Comfobuds Pro do quite well as with some other buds in the past some people on the phone said it was unbearable to carry a conversation.

Another test that I normally do is at home making phone calls while doing the dishes. People on the call can hear the water running but said it was very subtle compared to other TWS that I had in the past.


----------



## Tommy C

Ckro said:


> Is there any passive isolation with the Comfobuds Pro ? Or is the ANC sufficient so that they can be used in the subway for example?


They have some degree of passive noise canceling with the right tips but it’s far from being good but it’s by design. 
The ANC though works great for me and you have Strong or Mild.


----------



## chinmie

regancipher said:


> Anyone got the Tronsmart Onyx Prime yet? Putting them through testing today, not bad at all. Surprisingly very impressive.



I'm still waiting for my unit to arrive, hopefully in a couple of days. 

they also seems to have a special price for it in Aliexpress for the 11-11 Sale event

Prime: https://bit.ly/3lHfw4V
Tronsmart official store on Aliexpress: http://bit.ly/34eZu6O


----------



## adnhussn

adnhussn said:


> Day 2 with the Technics AZ60. Really enjoying these...they seem to check every box for me: sounds like the Soundpeats H1, excellent mic, functional app, excellent noise cancelling and ambient mode, decent battery life, good volume, and multipoint connection (though can be a bit buggy). I hear the AZ70 are a bit less bassy and more sparkly but I don't find that the bass on the AZ60 muddles the sound so I haven't bothered EQing from the default setting.


Anyone else with the AZ60 having issues with connectivity? It cuts out pretty often while walking outside with my phone in my pocket or through the wall if I’m one room away (maybe like 25 feet).


----------



## jant71

adnhussn said:


> Anyone else with the AZ60 having issues with connectivity? It cuts out pretty often while walking outside with my phone in my pocket or through the wall if I’m one room away (maybe like 25 feet).


Is that with LDAC?


----------



## Ceeluh7

adnhussn said:


> Anyone else with the AZ60 having issues with connectivity? It cuts out pretty often while walking outside with my phone in my pocket or through the wall if I’m one room away (maybe like 25 feet).


I have not had this issue. I have yet to have any dropouts


----------



## Ceeluh7

chinmie said:


> I'm still waiting for my unit to arrive, hopefully in a couple of days.
> 
> they also seems to have a special price for it in Aliexpress for the 11-11 Sale event
> 
> ...


Amazon has them for 69.00 with a 30% off coupon at the moment.


----------



## clerkpalmer

Hey all, as previously mentioned, I'm going to be taking some time off from IEMs to let my tinnitus settle down.  Conventional wisdom is IEMS are bad for tinnitus however, it appears speakers are a safer alternative.  Going off topic but can anyone recommend a nice desktop hifi setup or BT speakers? Nothing full sized.  Just for my desk.  I'll probably just stream via Tidal or something like that.  I have some sonos which is fine but was thinking of going a bit higher fidelity.  Recommendations are appreciated.  Hope to be back soon - I already miss this place!


----------



## dj24

Ckro said:


> Thanks ! @Tommy C : can you have calls outside with the Comfobuds Pro ? Even with cars etc. around ?
> I guess it should work well with the stem form factor but it depends on the mic quality and sound treatment as well.



You should really take a look at Bart's review since he does an excellent job reviewing call quality in general..

https://www.scarbir.com/tws/1more-comfobuds-pro-review


----------



## adnhussn

jant71 said:


> Is that with LDAC?


Nope. I should note it’s more stuttering than totally cutting out.


----------



## TK33

clerkpalmer said:


> Hey all, as previously mentioned, I'm going to be taking some time off from IEMs to let my tinnitus settle down.  Conventional wisdom is IEMS are bad for tinnitus however, it appears speakers are a safer alternative.  Going off topic but can anyone recommend a nice desktop hifi setup or BT speakers? Nothing full sized.  Just for my desk.  I'll probably just stream via Tidal or something like that.  I have some sonos which is fine but was thinking of going a bit higher fidelity.  Recommendations are appreciated.  Hope to be back soon - I already miss this place!


I feel you. I have been trying to use over ears when possible these days.  Was going to try to travel light and leave the Aonic 50s at home for an upcoming trip but my ears have been telling me that is a bad idea the last few days. I have my eyes on a pair of KEF LS50 Metas for a desktop setup but I am used to having larger speakers and a small sub at my desk. You are probably looking for something smaller.  Good luck and hope to see you back soon.


----------



## scottsays

Just ordered these today---
https://hifigo.com/products/tanchjim-echo-tws

Looking forward to getting them and will report on them when they arrive.


----------



## erockg

clerkpalmer said:


> Hey all, as previously mentioned, I'm going to be taking some time off from IEMs to let my tinnitus settle down.  Conventional wisdom is IEMS are bad for tinnitus however, it appears speakers are a safer alternative.  Going off topic but can anyone recommend a nice desktop hifi setup or BT speakers? Nothing full sized.  Just for my desk.  I'll probably just stream via Tidal or something like that.  I have some sonos which is fine but was thinking of going a bit higher fidelity.  Recommendations are appreciated.  Hope to be back soon - I already miss this place!


I used to use Audioengine BT speakers with my Mac setup.  Small and powerful.  https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07MYV2527/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1  Since switched to a few HomePod Mini speakers and headphones until I start to go deaf.  My phone keeps telling me to turn it down, ugh.  Can't go wrong with those Audioengine A2+ IMO.


----------



## jant71 (Nov 9, 2021)

What is this...














Early impression is the case is very ergonomic and a tank. You can probably step on it. Buds as well are very sturdy plastic. Magnets are quite strong.  Tips seem very good so might not even need replacing. There seems to be some room for other tips. Buttons are plastic and in the right place. Fit is very nice. Like the control scheme.

A little hiccup out of the box. I thought they were very low and that scared me. One press on the left is volume up and I got a beep but never a double beep for max volume. I put the L back in the case and took it out again and it fixed it. These have plenty of volume.

First sound impression is, again, solid bass. They always say heavy bass, overwhelming bass, etc. with the solid bass and they always disappoint the bassheads. There is some bass and heft but it is a slight lift more tastefully done. I am not a basshead or in with the neutral crown but want that right in between amount esp. for outside when you lose some to external noise. These have that right amount of boost for outside. SQ out of the box is fun and quite good. Bass is fairly tight out of the box and pretty quick. The sig does have some warmth but it is not the CKR70TW and is better balanced to me. I also don't see any foam inside behind the screen this time.

Quick  on the ANC, feedback type only, pretty good but only does low freqs. Need more testing on it of course. Quick transparency drops the volume quite low so you can't hear it so it should just pause but doesn't. Good thing is one press on the L gives you your original volume so you don't have to keep pressing. Transparency setting is pretty natural and quiet for noise. Think it is better than the Jabra here.

Again, the chick doesn't sound Asian and sounds pretty cute. Still might talk a bit much. 

So far, pretty damn good and as a new model, even a lower series, it should surpass the old. This so far is better ANC, ambient, and SQ than the CKR70TW.


----------



## helmutcheese

20 hours on buds! 👍


----------



## clerkpalmer

TK33 said:


> I feel you. I have been trying to use over ears when possible these days.  Was going to try to travel light and leave the Aonic 50s at home for an upcoming trip but my ears have been telling me that is a bad idea the last few days. I have my eyes on a pair of KEF LS50 Metas for a desktop setup but I am used to having larger speakers and a small sub at my desk. You are probably looking for something smaller.  Good luck and hope to see you back soon.


Thanks. I will check these options out for sure.


----------



## clerkpalmer

erockg said:


> I used to use Audioengine BT speakers with my Mac setup.  Small and powerful.  https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07MYV2527/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1  Since switched to a few HomePod Mini speakers and headphones until I start to go deaf.  My phone keeps telling me to turn it down, ugh.  Can't go wrong with those Audioengine A2+ IMO.


Thanks. Those popped up on my search today. Better than Sonos?


----------



## erockg

clerkpalmer said:


> Thanks. Those popped up on my search today. Better than Sonos?


I think it'll depends on your use.  If only for a computer, yes.  I tried to do Sonos with my Mac as a desktop setup and had all sorts of airplay issues.  HomePods are working out better.  But iTunes had to be connected via Airplay.  For some reason, Airplay doesn't want to work with my computer here.  The Audioengine speakers can be hooked up BT or hardwired.  Sonos, I think it'll be a bit more of a hassle to get what you want.  Don't get me wrong, our living room is all Sonos.  Love it.  That said, if you don't need to connect to a computer, yes, I'd go Sonos.  I'm surrounded by Sonos and and Apple ecosystem here.  Sorry if that all seemed confusing.


----------



## jant71 (Nov 9, 2021)

helmutcheese said:


> 20 hours on buds! 👍


50 is the magic number but would be nice if they could have gotten 2 full charges extra with the case instead of 1.5.

Size comparison pic...




Big but not the biggest. Nuarl size I would say but they are packing a 9mm, two air chambers for the driver and a big battery so to be expected. Easier fit and more comfy than the Nuarl N6 form factor.

Went out to the store. Only a little ANC and it is solid but still out for review. Actually the warmth and the good weight of them was good against external noise and I noticed that made them stand out in the busy store. Ambient again very quiet going on with no click or activation noise outside of the lady. Though the quick transparency on the right bud has no announcement so I could double check easy enough. Again very natural ambient up there with the best/most transparent I have heard.

Tried Spiral Dots and they fit fine in the case. Liked the stock tips SQ a little better. Maybe the ones I used on the CKR70TW I like a smidge better than stock but just a tiny bit. Much better tips than the last gen which were not that close.

The lady still gets confused. If you play or pause on the device she remembers what was last with the earphones so you get her to say pause when you play. 

These take EQ well. They do like a cooler source of course. Normal(no EQ) on my Cowon is never used since it is cool and a bit unexciting but these warm that up and I like it. Actually like the quality and tone of the treble on these. Delicious bass on one side but quality treble and good mids These are tuned similar to many TWS and the CKR70 I had that they are low end focused and you might want to add to the higher registers. Just better than things like the CKR70TW and the Victor. They have quality through the range and they can be pushed where you want. bass is the star but they can be evened out. Still need to see how the run in changes the bass if it does.


----------



## BooleanBones

clerkpalmer said:


> Hey all, as previously mentioned, I'm going to be taking some time off from IEMs to let my tinnitus settle down.  Conventional wisdom is IEMS are bad for tinnitus however, it appears speakers are a safer alternative.  Going off topic but can anyone recommend a nice desktop hifi setup or BT speakers? Nothing full sized.  Just for my desk.  I'll probably just stream via Tidal or something like that.  I have some sonos which is fine but was thinking of going a bit higher fidelity.  Recommendations are appreciated.  Hope to be back soon - I already miss this place!


In addition to what has been mentioned by TK33 and ErockG, for my desktop setup I actually use the Bose speakers and they sound pretty good. Very portable, can stereo link them together, great microphone setup that I use for conference calls all day long. They also play nicely with the AppleTV I have in my office. Very good utility speakers at a reasonable price in my opinion. I have both Sound Link Micro and a SoundLink Revolve II with the latter being a bit bigger, but sounds a bit better. Good luck!


----------



## clerkpalmer

erockg said:


> I think it'll depends on your use.  If only for a computer, yes.  I tried to do Sonos with my Mac as a desktop setup and had all sorts of airplay issues.  HomePods are working out better.  But iTunes had to be connected via Airplay.  For some reason, Airplay doesn't want to work with my computer here.  The Audioengine speakers can be hooked up BT or hardwired.  Sonos, I think it'll be a bit more of a hassle to get what you want.  Don't get me wrong, our living room is all Sonos.  Love it.  That said, if you don't need to connect to a computer, yes, I'd go Sonos.  I'm surrounded by Sonos and and Apple ecosystem here.  Sorry if that all seemed confusing.


Thanks - yeah I don't think I need to connect to my computer.  Was just looking for something fun but I'm gonna be keeping volumes low so I'm not gonna have that much fun.  I have a couple of Ones now but I'd like to upgrade even though they are fairly decent.


----------



## erockg

clerkpalmer said:


> Thanks - yeah I don't think I need to connect to my computer.  Was just looking for something fun but I'm gonna be keeping volumes low so I'm not gonna have that much fun.  I have a couple of Ones now but I'd like to upgrade even though they are fairly decent.


I have 2 Ones with a Sub and Arc.  Heaven.  Sonos has deals for healthcare workers or Costco is great as well.  I'm a Sonos advocate for sure.


----------



## clerkpalmer

BooleanBones said:


> In addition to what has been mentioned by TK33 and ErockG, for my desktop setup I actually use the Bose speakers and they sound pretty good. Very portable, can stereo link them together, great microphone setup that I use for conference calls all day long. They also play nicely with the AppleTV I have in my office. Very good utility speakers at a reasonable price in my opinion. I have both Sound Link Micro and a SoundLink Revolve II with the latter being a bit bigger, but sounds a bit better. Good luck!


Thanks man.  Will check them out.


erockg said:


> I have 2 Ones with a Sub and Arc.  Heaven.  Sonos has deals for healthcare workers or Costco is great as well.  I'm a Sonos advocate for sure.


Maybe I should just grab a sub for my 2 Ones?


----------



## Tommy C

clerkpalmer said:


> Thanks - yeah I don't think I need to connect to my computer.  Was just looking for something fun but I'm gonna be keeping volumes low so I'm not gonna have that much fun.  I have a couple of Ones now but I'd like to upgrade even though they are fairly decent.



If you want studio quality speakers but musical at the same time I don't think you can go wrong with the JBL 305P MkII or the older version the LSR 305 that are now discontinued but you might be able to find them still for cheap.  They are pretty much the same.


----------



## erockg

clerkpalmer said:


> Thanks man.  Will check them out.
> 
> Maybe I should just grab a sub for my 2 Ones?


If you're not going with an Arc, maybe.  It'll definitely add some nice room filling bass.  You could always add an Arc or the new Beam which has Atmos, later.  That's what is so great about Sono.  It's very modular.  I even added a Port to my turntable.  You're right, it really is fun


----------



## clerkpalmer

BooleanBones said:


> In addition to what has been mentioned by TK33 and ErockG, for my desktop setup I actually use the Bose speakers and they sound pretty good. Very portable, can stereo link them together, great microphone setup that I use for conference calls all day long. They also play nicely with the AppleTV I have in my office. Very good utility speakers at a reasonable price in my opinion. I have both Sound Link Micro and a SoundLink Revolve II with the latter being a bit bigger, but sounds a bit better. Good luck!


Thanks man.  Will check them out.


----------



## Aevum

Anyone knows anything about the Tanchjim Echo TWS ? its suppose to have a Qualcom 3040, APTX Adaptive and a 10mm Berilyum driver for 99 bucks, so  even if they dont have ANC, i hope they good. 
​


----------



## Dobrescu George

At mid week, you probably need a way to shut off the noise in your background, and focus on the music, work that needs to be done, as well as something comfy, so today I bring you my full in-depth written review about the 1MORE ANC TWS IEMs, also called the EHD9001TA! 

Tuned by a master designed from Italy, this True Wireless IEM is tons of fun if you enjoy a stronger bass and a smoother treble. 

More info in the full review, and if you have questions, I'm always around to help~ 

https://www.audiophile-heaven.com/2021/11/1more-anc-tws-iems-ehd9001ta-background-off-music-on.html


----------



## avesta07 (Nov 10, 2021)

jant71 said:


> 50 is the magic number but would be nice if they could have gotten 2 full charges extra with the case instead of 1.5.
> 
> Size comparison pic...
> 
> ...


Thanks for the review!

How about the call quality on these? Let say if we compare with jabra, sony, etc


----------



## jeffri

Just got this... My first impression, well, let's say that I'm quite impressed.


----------



## Tommy C

Dobrescu George said:


> At mid week, you probably need a way to shut off the noise in your background, and focus on the music, work that needs to be done, as well as something comfy, so today I bring you my full in-depth written review about the 1MORE ANC TWS IEMs, also called the EHD9001TA!
> 
> Tuned by a master designed from Italy, this True Wireless IEM is tons of fun if you enjoy a stronger bass and a smoother treble.
> 
> ...



How about the 1More app?
Is there an eq or at least pre-sets?
I don't think they do unless equalizer was added with a firmware update.


----------



## Ceeluh7

jeffri said:


> Just got this... My first impression, well, let's say that I'm quite impressed.


What set is this?


----------



## OhSoSWIL (Nov 10, 2021)

Been perusing the thread and my brain is scrambled guys! Looking for some recommendations.

Currently own a pair of Jabra 65t's that I've had for 2.5 years primarily for the gym or working around the house. Enjoyed a pair QCY T1Cs for some time before losing an ear and have been defaulting to the wife's AirPods for the past few weeks due to the seamless iPhone integration but... I'm ready to level up! The options now seem to be endless vs. when I bought my Jabras.

Avid listener of Hip-Hop and R&B, some electronic music at times. Average listener who would somewhat put myself under bass-head category. Will primarily be using these with my iPhone for listening in the office and around the house. Not much care for sweat-resistance as I can use the Jabras for the gym.

I've seen a lot of talk about the Geminis but... HELP!!!


----------



## Dobrescu George

Tommy C said:


> How about the 1More app?
> Is there an eq or at least pre-sets?
> I don't think they do unless equalizer was added with a firmware update.



I don't think any EQ is possible sadly


----------



## mh1c

With 11.11 around the corner I’m still undecided: Nekocake vs T1 Lite vs Edifier x3 vs comfobuds pro 😕


----------



## Aevum

from those 3, Comforbuds pro, the NekoCake is meh from my impressions, and the Comforbuds pro are better then the X3


----------



## HaliHarry (Nov 10, 2021)

jeffri said:


> Just got this... My first impression, well, let's say that I'm quite impressed.


Can you share with me how is its sound ??? 🤑


----------



## bizkid

I've got a new pair Powerbeats Pro for a killer price. They sound surprisingly good, I just wish for a bit more comfort while exercising, the tips aren't very ear friendly. I don't have any experience with Tip Rolling, what kind of differences can I expect besides comfort? Also I would prefer more bass impact (not quantity) and better mid transparency if that is possible. I have my eyes on the Spinfit CP360 M/S but they seem sold out always. Anything else I should try?


----------



## CocaCola15 (Nov 10, 2021)

So many choices appearing on the thread every day; it feels so very odd being satisfied with the trio of TW phones I have now owned going on 3 weeks (without a new purchase) - a record! That would be the Soundcore L3P (EQ'd to perfection), Status Between  Pro (Indiegogo steal at $79) and the CA Melomania 1+ (just a fan, period).  I will admit to ordering the FIIL T1XS on Amazon a few days ago (on sale, good word of mouth) but quickly realizing it was purely an addiction purchase and cancelling like 10 minutes later.


----------



## jeffri

Ceeluh7 said:


> What set is this?


It's Victor FW1000T.



HaliHarry said:


> Can you share with me how is its sound ??? 🤑


I'll share more impression soon. 

Compared to the Sony XM4, I like this better sound-wise. If XM4 can be too dark and smooth, this is more balanced. Surprisingly, even with just aptX (compared to LDAC on XM4), the resolution and details seem to be better on FW1000T. More about sound soon... 

That said, the ANC and ambience mode can't touch the XM4. The ANC is less effective, possibly like just 50% of XM4. The ambience mode is also not as good, it doesn't sound robotic but doesn't let a lot of ambience sounds in.

It's harder to make conversation wearing this compared to XM4, as I couldn't hear the other person as well. The transition to ambient mode also take a second or two, making it a bit awkward when people start to talk to me, but I had to wait before the ambient mode kick in. lol  Oh, and also no auto pause when I take it off, even though it does have proximity sensor, kinda weird choice.

But overall, I enjoyed the sound of this, even though it's a bit flawed as all around TWS wear.


----------



## Nick24JJ

Hello again

So, I've received the Melomania 1+ and I'm listening for 2 days now. Updated to the latest firmware, after a bit of struggling. High performance audio mode, immersive EQ. They sound OK, good I'd say, but to me personally, they sound very (very) similar to my Melomania 1. I cannot justify this purchase in my  head, so I will most probably return them.

So, I will ask you again, please, which IEM do you recommend? The most important thing to me is sound quality! I do not care (almost) at all about any other feature! It doesn't have to be good for phone-calls or to have noise cancellation etc. It must support LDAC or LHDC. I'm listening from Amazon HD, 85% electronic music

Which one of the following sounds best?

Technics EAH-AZ60
Soundcore by Anker Liberty 3 Pro
HiBy WH2?

What is your opinion about the Grell Audio TW1?

Anything else up to £200 ?

Thank you!


----------



## BooleanBones

jeffri said:


> It's Victor FW1000T.
> 
> 
> I'll share more impression soon.
> ...


The stems look a bit long. Do they dig deep into your ear canals compared to the XM4s? Comfort is good? Excited to see someone taking these for a spin.


----------



## BooleanBones

Ceeluh7 said:


> What set is this?


There were a few post a bit back about these. Pretty good read (like the wood drivers). On my phone now, so hard to find that discussion atm.


----------



## jant71

avesta07 said:


> Thanks for the review!
> 
> How about the call quality on these? Let say if we compare with jabra, sony, etc


I was comparing these to the Jabra Elite 3 last night for sound and today for performance outside esp. with regards to the ambient. The AT has better mics and/or implementation. On both the JVC and Jabra there is a bit of tunneling. The Jabras mics are better than the JVC but I was playing a little basketball and they both give a dodgeball like clank when dribbling the ball. The AT sounds like normal bouncing. Calls, outside of a smidge more quiet than the Jabra on the voice and less warm. Can't tell you about the Sony though. I have read the reviews that the Jabra and XM4 are on par and the Sony are like the AT. Jabra Elite 7 Pro again said to be  little less warm and weighty on the voice. The Elite 3 is kinda odd where the calls are quite good though the ambient is good but not great. The AT do have sidetone and the Jabra don't.

As for sound the Jabra is an overachiever and the two sound a bit similar. I can use nearly the same EQ settings. The AT is warmer and does have more bass. More warmth and weight and grandeur to it. More depth and 3D and it is more headphone like so not just simply more in amount. Better in extension as well. They sound pretty similar both on aptX and they are the only two so far I could use my Cowon EQ with and get a better sound than just the presets. Even the N6 Pro 2 are not as natural even with the technical prowess, natural is another thing. With both the ambient and the sound, the Nuarl is brighter and cleaner but not more natural and not as good for TWS. Both more fun and substantial like a headphone and better out in the real world.


----------



## jeffri

BooleanBones said:


> The stems look a bit long. Do they dig deep into your ear canals compared to the XM4s? Comfort is good? Excited to see someone taking these for a spin.


As far as how deep it inserts, it's about on par with XM4 I think. I'll do a comparison shot sometime tomorrow.

As for comfort, the XM4 hurt my ear initially, but as time goes, it doesn't anymore. Maybe my ear adapted or something... With FW1000T though, the comfort is great from the start. I used the smallest eartips and I can wear it for hours.


----------



## Thesonofkrypton

jeffri said:


> It's Victor FW1000T.
> 
> 
> I'll share more impression soon.
> ...


Was very tempted to order a pair from Amazon.jp but glad I didn't.  ANC is important to me when I'm out and about.


----------



## jant71

Trying out UE tips atm. Earfits sounded good but the stems are a bit too long and the left side wouldn't charge in the case but the right just made it. Most tips will work.


----------



## bladefd

Nick24JJ said:


> Hello again
> 
> So, I've received the Melomania 1+ and I'm listening for 2 days now. Updated to the latest firmware, after a bit of struggling. High performance audio mode, immersive EQ. They sound OK, good I'd say, but to me personally, they sound very (very) similar to my Melomania 1. I cannot justify this purchase in my  head, so I will most probably return them.
> 
> ...


I would say the Sony xm4 and AZ60 are probably your best shot if they must have LDAC. LDAC is still pretty new (few months old) so your options are a bit limited.

Would aptx be okay? You can get many more possibilities if you are willing to consider aptx.


----------



## quick1

jant71 said:


> Trying out UE tips atm.


Hmm, what's the full name, or maybe a link?


----------



## CocaCola15

Nick24JJ said:


> Hello again
> 
> So, I've received the Melomania 1+ and I'm listening for 2 days now. Updated to the latest firmware, after a bit of struggling. High performance audio mode, immersive EQ. They sound OK, good I'd say, but to me personally, they sound very (very) similar to my Melomania 1. I cannot justify this purchase in my  head, so I will most probably return them.
> 
> ...


Being an M1+ fan and having owned the M1, I can't disagree that the former is not a major upgrade at first glance, but the fact that it has an app and the ability to EQ the M1+ makes a difference to me. I also never use anything but OEM foam tips, which I also find the best option. Crazy as this sounds, apart from the SC app EQ, I also add another layer of changes via EQ on the M1+ with a third party player, Kaiser Audio, and I think that really brings out the best in the M1+.

I owned the new Sony and returned it (not a fan of the tips and price tag, and the sound did not blow me away), and I have owned Senns and other decent TW in-ears. I do have the Soundcore L3P here and like them as well, but it takes a lot, and I  mean a lot, of EQ fiddling to get them right. When you do, they are, IMHO, amazing, 

On the other hand,  I have not purchased any of the other high end TW phones (besides the Sonys and the Senns), well I did have the Jabra 85t, but to me, spending $250-$300 for TW phones is a losing prop, since I use them mainly outside the house, turning to full-sized phones for at home listening. And the battery life issue also is a cost/performance factor to me. Finally, aging ears don't help either, haha.

My guess is unless you take the time to EQ tinker with the L3P, you won't care for them. The Technics look interesting. So much to choose from!


----------



## DigDub

2 LDAC capable true wireless earbuds.






















Technics case is smaller than Sony's but does not have wireless charging. Technics buds are smaller and more comfortable in the ears, the tips come in 7 sizes.

It is possible to have all controls on the Technics and can be customized via the app. For Sony, you'd have to choose between volume control or ANC/ambient control.

The Technics sound the opposite of the Sony. Sony sounds very smooth with excellent detail retrieval and resolution. The Technics has a brighter and more exciting sound signature. The high-mid are boosted, and the bass sounds bigger than the Sony. Detail and resolution on the Technics is excellent as well. The Technics might appeal to people who find the Sony "dull", while the Technics may sound more fatiguing due to the brighter high-mid. Mids and vocals of the Technics come across as natural without sounding robotic or tinny. The bass on the Technics has more impact, maybe due to its larger 8mm drivers as compared to the Sony's 6mm driver.

The just my voice feature on the Technics works really well. Think of it as ANC for talking, it filters out most background noise and only your voice is audible. Some tiny shortcomings will be your voice will sound flatter, and if you whisper, your voice might not be picked up.


----------



## BooleanBones

DigDub said:


> 2 LDAC capable true wireless earbuds.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thanks for this, nice notes. This is a comparison I was waiting for. Stock tips on both during your comparison?


----------



## DigDub

BooleanBones said:


> Thanks for this, nice notes. This is a comparison I was waiting for. Stock tips on both during your comparison?


The Sony is using Sony hybrid tips. The tips on the Technics are stock tips.


----------



## bladefd

DigDub said:


> 2 LDAC capable true wireless earbuds.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Good comparison that I was waiting for someone to do. How was battery life on the two with LDAC on?


----------



## DigDub

bladefd said:


> Good comparison that I was waiting for someone to do. How was battery life on the two with LDAC on?


The Sony definitely has the better battery life. The Technics I would say probably has about 2/3 of the battery of the Sony's.


----------



## avesta07

jant71 said:


> I was comparing these to the Jabra Elite 3 last night for sound and today for performance outside esp. with regards to the ambient. The AT has better mics and/or implementation. On both the JVC and Jabra there is a bit of tunneling. The Jabras mics are better than the JVC but I was playing a little basketball and they both give a dodgeball like clank when dribbling the ball. The AT sounds like normal bouncing. Calls, outside of a smidge more quiet than the Jabra on the voice and less warm. Can't tell you about the Sony though. I have read the reviews that the Jabra and XM4 are on par and the Sony are like the AT. Jabra Elite 7 Pro again said to be  little less warm and weighty on the voice. The Elite 3 is kinda odd where the calls are quite good though the ambient is good but not great. The AT do have sidetone and the Jabra don't.
> 
> As for sound the Jabra is an overachiever and the two sound a bit similar. I can use nearly the same EQ settings. The AT is warmer and does have more bass. More warmth and weight and grandeur to it. More depth and 3D and it is more headphone like so not just simply more in amount. Better in extension as well. They sound pretty similar both on aptX and they are the only two so far I could use my Cowon EQ with and get a better sound than just the presets. Even the N6 Pro 2 are not as natural even with the technical prowess, natural is another thing. With both the ambient and the sound, the Nuarl is brighter and cleaner but not more natural and not as good for TWS. Both more fun and substantial like a headphone and better out in the real world.


nice review, seem like its worth to wait till ATH distributor bring it to my country. 
or i can just pull the trigger and get it from amazon jp


----------



## HaliHarry

BooleanBones said:


> Thanks for this, nice notes. This is a comparison I was waiting for. Stock tips on both during your comparison?


I use acoustune EAT07 tips for AZ60 to make soundstage wider and mid-range is cleaner and crisper. I'm really satified!


----------



## Nick24JJ

Hi guys,

Thank you very much for your opinions and ideas! 

I've just ordered the Technics EAH-AZ60 silver. I will have them by tomorrow, most probably, so we will see...


----------



## Caipirina (Nov 11, 2021)

So, AliExpress' 11/11 is starting in 22 minutes! What'cha all getting?

I am still considering the Fiil T2 Pro, but there are no 'real' reviews out there yet, and price will most likely come down ... I just feel greedy because I have that 7$ coupon I need to burn  Or do I? I do have enough music making devices 

Oh, but seems there is a video for the Earfun Pro 2 out, and like before, they look identical


----------



## quick1

HaliHarry said:


> I use acoustune EAT07 tips for AZ60 to make soundstage wider and mid-range is cleaner and crisper. I'm really satified!


Interested in these tips. Can you measure the opening point at the ear for me? I like tips that have a very wide opening.


----------



## Juturna (Nov 11, 2021)

I'm really liking the 1more Comfobuds, they really feel like what I want in a bud. In a perfect world the sound would've been even better and more hi-fi, but they feel like my "no-brainer" earbud that I don't have to think about much. They just sound good and balanced and the call quality is good enough to not have to be stressed taking a call with them, and they're really comfortable. I reach for them more than my Devialet Gemini's right now, which for less than 1/3 of the price is not bad at all. With that said they don't necessarily sound better than the Devialet Gemini, but I think the sound signature is slightly more my type of sound.


----------



## HaliHarry

quick1 said:


> Interested in these tips. Can you measure the opening point at the ear for me? I like tips that have a very wide opening.


Hope that helpful for you


----------



## Caipirina

Juturna said:


> I'm really liking the 1more Comfobuds, they really feel like what I want in a bud. In a perfect world the sound would've been even better and more hi-fi, but they feel like my "no-brainer" earbud that I don't have to think about much. They just sound good and balanced and the call quality is good enough to not have to be stressed taking a call with them, and they're really comfortable. I reach for them more than my Devialet Gemini's right now, which for less than 1/3 of the price is not bad at all. With that said they don't necessarily sound better than the Devialet Gemini, but I think the sound signature is slightly more my type of sound.


Which Comfobuds? Pro? Z? 2? 
After thinking about getting the Pro for such a long time and reading so many good things (and still not overcoming that pointy stem design!), I caved in after I realized I can get them on 11.11 with some coupon magic at 53.44$ ... blue ones ... if those are the Aurora Blue .. we shall see ...


----------



## Ceeluh7

Nick24JJ said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> Thank you very much for your opinions and ideas!
> 
> I've just ordered the Technics EAH-AZ60 silver. I will have them by tomorrow, most probably, so we will see...


Technics is a good set. I did need the drivers to settle a bit as out of  the box these get congested in complicated tracks. Anyways the technics are nice. They don't have the tonality of the M1+ but they are nice. I wouldn't say they are great yet. They imo Def need some eq'ing, not as much as the LP3 but they need it. It's all trial and error buy and return in this tws hobby. No one has gotten it perfectly right as I have complaints about the Technics for sure. I am like you, I care first about SQ and everything else is a distant second. I was surprised you thought M1 and M1+ were so close in SQ. I found them to be a good measure apart. Oh well, Im just glad you went with a very well rounded set in the AZ60. They really can be eq'd to the top tier in SQ. Again, let the drivers burn in and settle and just like the M1+ these drivers take a good week to open up for some reason. I wrestled with taking these back for a bit until one day the AZ60 started to wow me. I did take the filter sponge out of the tips that come stock and you may want to do that as well. They have this little sponge in every tip and it really dulls the upper mids and treble... Weird


----------



## Juturna

Caipirina said:


> Which Comfobuds? Pro? Z? 2?
> After thinking about getting the Pro for such a long time and reading so many good things (and still not overcoming that pointy stem design!), I caved in after I realized I can get them on 11.11 with some coupon magic at 53.44$ ... blue ones ... if those are the Aurora Blue .. we shall see ...


Pro - Aurora Blue


----------



## Skinner

Ordered the Comfobuds Pro in Aurora Blue from Aliexpress for £46 after all the various discounts. 

Couldn't say no at that price (had them in black previously and really liked the sound, fit and ANC/ambient, but returned because of lack of eq) even though I'm pretty happy with the Earfun Air Pro 2 I picked up this week.


----------



## jant71 (Nov 11, 2021)

Ceeluh7 said:


> Technics is a good set. I did need the drivers to settle a bit as out of  the box these get congested in complicated tracks. Anyways the technics are nice. They don't have the tonality of the M1+ but they are nice. I wouldn't say they are great yet. They imo Def need some eq'ing, not as much as the LP3 but they need it. It's all trial and error buy and return in this tws hobby. No one has gotten it perfectly right as I have complaints about the Technics for sure. I am like you, I care first about SQ and everything else is a distant second. I was surprised you thought M1 and M1+ were so close in SQ. I found them to be a good measure apart. Oh well, Im just glad you went with a very well rounded set in the AZ60. They really can be eq'd to the top tier in SQ. Again, let the drivers burn in and settle and just like the M1+ these drivers take a good week to open up for some reason. I wrestled with taking these back for a bit until one day the AZ60 started to wow me. I did take the filter sponge out of the tips that come stock and you may want to do that as well. They have this little sponge in every tip and it really dulls the upper mids and treble... Weird


Well that's not totally true about everything else a distant second.  If they dropped connection all the time you would ditch them.



avesta07 said:


> nice review, seem like its worth to wait till ATH distributor bring it to my country.
> or i can just pull the trigger and get it from amazon jp



Up to you. Not sure about the price difference and conversion. It was the first one I think I paid more for buying from Japan. Usually cheaper but shorter on the warranty but also you get it weeks or months earlier depending. I guess I still got them quite earlier and @$185 with the DHL it might still be the same price if they are $169 here plus tax. I see here in the US the CKS5TW is not discontinued and the SQ1, which AT US just got in this fall, was first out on Amazon JP in October of 2020 so a year till that showed up here. We got the first review on Amazon Japan...


_"__5.0 out of 5 stars_      Personally wireless earphones are earphones that put an end to the swamp.   
Reviewed in Japan on November 9, 2021
Color: Biege Verified Purchase
     This is an obediently good earphone.
The battery lasted as long as a dumplings, and it was not a common fraud notation.
The sound quality is very clear with no strange noise from the minimum volume to the loud volume, and the bass is comfortable.
The bass is stronger than the previous SOLID BASS series ATH-CKS5TW, but there is no comparison because the noise was severe and the bass was vulgar in the first place.

And this may not be helpful because it is individual differences, but I was impressed with the wearing feeling too perfect.
Thanks to this, the effectiveness of ANC is also strong.

Until now, I purchased a large number of earphones with a battery of 10 hours or more, and I was not satisfied with the sound quality and wearing comfort and I was addicted to the earphone swamp, but finally put an end to this CKS50TW I will.
If it breaks, it was a product of the level that I wanted to repeat again.

Points I noticed in the postscript ◆ The volume is lower compared to other earphones in my possession. It is about 65% for CKS50TW to produce 50% volume with other earphones on PC. For those who like roast sounds, this point seems to affect the battery life.
However, the ratings are still good earphones."


  Translated from Japanese by Amazon

I agree. Not that I had the CKS5TW but read that it is quite balanced so that fits there is actually more bass this time. The volume is also not the highest but also there might be that little bug that that I got where the volume did not change till a reset. They will still not be the loudest but more in between. Not sure, other than the CKS5TW, what other models they have had. Nice that you find them the one that makes you happy over the others but which ones? Though I am on board. Happy to stick with these for a while.


----------



## Ceeluh7

jant71 said:


> Well that's not totally true about everything else a distant second.  If they dropped connection all the time you would ditch them.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Hahaha... Yes... You are correct. I suppose I should have said a slightly distant 2nd.


----------



## quick1

Ceeluh7 said:


> Technics is a good set. I did need the drivers to settle a bit as out of  the box these get congested in complicated tracks. Anyways the technics are nice.
> I did take the filter sponge out of the tips that come stock and you may want to do that as well. They have this little sponge in every tip and it really dulls the upper mids and treble... Weird


Exactly why I don't like things in the way of the sound path, don't really care what it is. To me it's like getting a great set of floor standers and then placing a potted plant or a table right in front of it.


----------



## Tommy C

Juturna said:


> I'm really liking the 1more Comfobuds, they really feel like what I want in a bud. In a perfect world the sound would've been even better and more hi-fi, but they feel like my "no-brainer" earbud that I don't have to think about much. They just sound good and balanced and the call quality is good enough to not have to be stressed taking a call with them, and they're really comfortable. I reach for them more than my Devialet Gemini's right now, which for less than 1/3 of the price is not bad at all. With that said they don't necessarily sound better than the Devialet Gemini, but I think the sound signature is slightly more my type of sound.



Same for me. I was spending a good few days between them and the Sennheiser CX 400BT, including many hours on calls and while the latter does some things better the overall sound of the Comfobuds Pro is more to my liking. Add the ANC and Ambient with call quality and the Wind Reduction feature and it's a winner when out and about. 
I find the Acoustics 1 and Acoustics 2 to be my favorites pre-sets for most genres that I listen to but the Deep pre-sets is good for hip-hop and electronic music very nicely.
For me, although technically not the best I do get some hi-fi vibes if the source is good even while streaming (using LiveXLive). 

I think they punch well above their weight and I also feel like them a lot because it's my ideal sound signature and as a whole product they work very well. 
I paid $50 before tax and at this price range it's a no brainer. Even at $125 I still think they can give some other TWS a good run for their money. 

Compared to the CA MT for example they have less exciting sound but clearer mids and much more balanced. 
Listening to rock and alternative I can easily hear the lyrics and the mids while on the CA MT they were somewhat muffled. 

Another option if you like the sound signature is the Fiil T1XS and I'm suspecting they use the same chipset. Controls are also somewhat similar with the double-tap, triple-tap etc. but the Fiil have no ANC, ambient is a touch worse and but they have full eq and pre-sets and when they go on major sale on Amazon they are $27 it's another no brainer option.


----------



## Nick24JJ (Nov 11, 2021)

Ceeluh7 said:


> Technics is a good set. I did need the drivers to settle a bit as out of  the box these get congested in complicated tracks. Anyways the technics are nice. They don't have the tonality of the M1+ but they are nice. I wouldn't say they are great yet. They imo Def need some eq'ing, not as much as the LP3 but they need it. It's all trial and error buy and return in this tws hobby. No one has gotten it perfectly right as I have complaints about the Technics for sure. I am like you, I care first about SQ and everything else is a distant second. I was surprised you thought M1 and M1+ were so close in SQ. I found them to be a good measure apart. Oh well, Im just glad you went with a very well rounded set in the AZ60. They really can be eq'd to the top tier in SQ. Again, let the drivers burn in and settle and just like the M1+ these drivers take a good week to open up for some reason. I wrestled with taking these back for a bit until one day the AZ60 started to wow me. I did take the filter sponge out of the tips that come stock and you may want to do that as well. They have this little sponge in every tip and it really dulls the upper mids and treble... Weird


Thanks for your input, I appreciate it!

I will receive the Technics tomorrow afternoon and, of course, I will give them 15 days, as I will give to the M1+
I am eligible for returning any of them, until January, 2022.

Regarding my Melomania 1+ set, I am surprised, as well. Not with how they sound, as I did not have any prior experience with them, but with some other things. First of all, I struggled to update to the latest Firmware. The left bud got updated straight away; for the right one I was getting errors, until it finally got updated. Then I tried to change the Audio Mode to Low Power, to explore it, and it struggled and gave me an error... Another thing is that they lose connection with my phone, as soon as I will leave the room! With my Melomania 1 this does not happen, I go upstairs and they keep the connection. Maybe I need a factory reset? I don't know. Oh, and my M1+ sound kinda quiet, my M1 sound louder. Anyway, we'll see...


----------



## jasoncd2

Glad to find this thread, it's been interesting reading everyone's opinions.  I decided a few weeks ago to replace the Airpod Pros, and it's been helpful.  I have tried a few so far...

*Beoplay EQ*
Just got these in.  The metal case feels premium and is very compact.  Earbuds themselves also look and feel very premium.  First impressions were great.  Maybe easier if I bullet the rest of my impressions.


Volume is low.  I need about 80 - 90% volume to equal 50 - 60% volume on the Devialet Gemini.  
Sound is good, feel like there is good separation and detail in the music.  But sometimes I feel like maybe these are under amped.  Switching back to the Gemini feels like a boost in dynamics or dynamic range.  Still, the sound quality with the EQ feels more nuanced and it is intriguing.
Fit is great.  I like that the buds are positioned in my ears with the touch controls facing outward naturally.  The Gemini have the touch controls pointing a little towards my back and it's not super natural to find them easily.
Touch controls are pretty sensitive.  Easy to accidentally press them when adjusting the earbuds.
Stock tips are meh.  Using Azla Xlastec for now.  Stems are pretty narrow compared to others.  The fit doesn't seem to be quite as deep as I'd like it to be, although just going by stem length it should be.  For comparison, they don't fit as deep as i can get the XM4s.
ANC is okay.  Below the XM4 and the Gemini.  However, the ANC does better than both of those are blocking out wind noise while walking outside.  That's pretty cool.
No skip track control on the buds is stupid.  They could easily add more controls than they have now.
When you resume after pausing, the earbuds don't start at the exact same time.  One comes on a split second before the other.
The volume thing may have me return them.  Still undecided.

*Devialet Gemini*
Plastic case and build.  Nothing wrong with it, but nothing stand out about it.  Fit is great for me, using Final E tips right now.  They do fit back in the case with the Final tips but it's tight.  Stock tips fit decent as well.  These get loud, sound quality is good.  Very punchy sound.  EQ in app is nice, I have it set flat right now as i find the default sound pretty good.  May play with it more later.

ANC was surprisingly great.  I go back and forth on this versus the XM4 for who has the better ANC.  Controls are okay, but the touch pad is kinda small and hard to hit sometimes.  The earbuds sometimes don't auto pause when removing one, but that's not a big deal to me.

*Bose QuietComfort Earbuds*
These went on sale for $199 so I said why not.  Out of the box, sound was horrid.  Hollow, bizarre sound signature that was just bad.  After downloading a firmware update, it added an in app EQ and that helped some.  I'd still rank these last in music, but they're not terrible anymore.  ANC is very good.  Fit on these is kinda weird, the StayHear tips are great in concept, but I feel like the size M is a little big on the hook part, and the size S is a little small on the ear tip part.  I may need some kind of size between S and M and I don't think that exists.

Case and earbuds are both large.  Earbuds are light weight though and don't move around.  These were decent for running, setting a low ANC level to still be aware of traffic but eliminate the internal foot step pounding sound you can get with ANC.

Touch controls are good, I think this is the only one where I can skip track, play/pause, change volume and change ANC.  Most others seem to omit one or more of those.

*Sony XM4*
These also went on sale, so....Out of the box, sound was somewhat muddy or just overly warm.  Was not a fan of the stock tips, they just didn't work for me.  They didn't work for me with the Z1R either.  Final E type and Xlastec both seem to work well, I go back and forth on which I like best.  The case is deep enough to fit the Final E tips just fine.

Case and earbuds are plastic, but feel well made.  Case is nice and compact, although not quite as compact as the EQs.  Comfort is good for me, and I can get a nice deep fit which is great.

After some EQ in the app, the sound is more to my tastes.  I put them behind the Gemini, but they're not bad at all and aren't that far behind.  But switching back and forth with these and the Gemini, I can tell there is still some congestion in the XM4 despite my best attempts at EQ.  ANC is great.  Touch controls are good.  The XM4 strike me as the all rounder here that can do everything well.  Like the Toyota Camry or sensible choice.  Gemini could also fill that role, with better SQ and less ergonomics.

When you put these in, they announce Bluetooth Connected and then the battery life for each earbud does, separately.  This is handy i guess, but it's also a little annoying to wait a couple seconds each time i put them in.



I didn't have any technical issues with any of these, at least not yet.  All connect fast, no dropped connections.  PI7 was/is on the list to try, but 4 hours battery life and high price has me on the fence.  AZ60 looks interesting too, but I dunno.  The Beoplay EQ I feel could be the ones, but the volume thing bugs me.  I'm on iPhone, so it could be different with Android I suppose.  The smart move would probably be keep the Gemini or XM4 and have those do everything.

All of the above here handily beat the Airpods Pro, but that may be at least partly due to fit with the Airpods.  Never sure if i've got a great seal with them, or just an okay seal.


----------



## d3myz (Nov 11, 2021)

Just wanted to write a little blurb. I returned my Jabra E7P's I hated the fit and although they sounded better than my 75t's and connected a little quicker etc, I just couldn't justify the $200 price tag. I picked up the Sennheiser MTW 2's for $199 and damn, these things are an all around killer! Anyone else own these? I think I read something on here about how someone liked the sound quality of the version 1's better? The app is fantastic, controls, fit both great and the transparency mode and ANC are both top notch.  i've heard great things about the *Devialet Gemini's *but I don't think i'm ready for a $300 commitment.

Edit: I wish they went louder


----------



## Caipirina

Skinner said:


> Ordered the Comfobuds Pro in Aurora Blue from Aliexpress for £46 after all the various discounts.
> 
> Couldn't say no at that price (had them in black previously and really liked the sound, fit and ANC/ambient, but returned because of lack of eq) even though I'm pretty happy with the Earfun Air Pro 2 I picked up this week.


Nice, I also got the blue ones, but I am still wondering if all blue are the 22 preset Aurora blue. 
Also managed to get the Soundpeats H1 for 39.07$ … somehow I recall them being over 80$ usually? 
Was contemplating the Edifier Neobuds but for weird reasons the official edifier store won’t ship THAT model to Japan! Other stores do but charge more 
And for some strange reasons the liberty 3 pro are quite expensive on AliExpress …


----------



## xSDMx

AHHH! MacOS Monterey has broken AptX. OMG, all my TWS buds sound TERRIBLE!


----------



## Ceeluh7

Nick24JJ said:


> Thanks for your input, I appreciate it!
> 
> I will receive the Technics tomorrow afternoon and, of course, I will give them 15 days, as I will give to the M1+
> I am eligible for returning any of them, until January, 2022.
> ...


So the M1+ are the top 3 loudest earbuds I have. They are stupid loud. Those amps are very nice. So something is wrong man. Believe me when I say it... I listen very loud and I like earbuds that get way louder so that I have headroom. The M1+ are ridiculously loud in volume. Did you disable absolute volume and turn them up allt he way on the earbuds? Sorry if that is a stupid question because I cannot turn these things up past 80% and that is really freaking loud. I'm sorry you are having issues. I have heard of many people having connection issues with the MT's but I have those and have never had any issues, the same as my M1+. Anyways I really do hope they come together because the m1+ are a fantastic set... Imo


----------



## quick1

Ceeluh7 said:


> So the M1+ are the top 3 loudest earbuds I have. They are stupid loud.


How are the AZ60's when it comes to loudness?


----------



## Ceeluh7

quick1 said:


> How are the AZ60's when it comes to loudness?


Not as loud, some people claim they are very loud but not even nearly as loud as the M1+ imo. I had to eq the AZ60 louder


----------



## Ceeluh7

quick1 said:


> How are the AZ60's when it comes to loudness?


The AZ60's are not as loud as the M1+. I actually had to eq them louder, the good thing is that in doing that the drivers did not distort and handled bumping them up very well. Still not as loud as the Cambridge. And I just realized I answered this twice... Lol... Sorry


----------



## scottsays

May have to give these a try--

https://www.shure.com/en-US/product...XzcC708eOm78Psy9spyPjZm0yDyHJUUBoCsAIQAvD_BwE


----------



## Ceeluh7

scottsays said:


> May have to give these a try--
> 
> https://www.shure.com/en-US/product...XzcC708eOm78Psy9spyPjZm0yDyHJUUBoCsAIQAvD_BwE


Very curious about this set as well. I'll wait for some good reviews from some audio sites


----------



## erockg

scottsays said:


> May have to give these a try--
> 
> https://www.shure.com/en-US/product...XzcC708eOm78Psy9spyPjZm0yDyHJUUBoCsAIQAvD_BwE


I absolutely love them.  Been using them every day.  I think I posted about them a few pages back.


----------



## erockg

Received the Black version of the AZ60s from Amazon Japan a short while ago.  I have to say, sooooo much better than the 70s in my opinion.  They fit like a glove and the ANC is great.  Love the deeper bass.  Case is much smaller.  I do wish they had wireless charging and a pause sensor.  All that said, so far, these are a great upgrade.  Have to find some serious time for them in my rotation.


----------



## bladefd

scottsays said:


> May have to give these a try--
> 
> https://www.shure.com/en-US/product...XzcC708eOm78Psy9spyPjZm0yDyHJUUBoCsAIQAvD_BwE


Hmm, they seem too big tbh.. Shaped like the Sony xm3, which were difficult to use while lying down or on the side.


----------



## DigDub

erockg said:


> Received the Black version of the AZ60s from Amazon Japan a short while ago.  I have to say, sooooo much better than the 70s in my opinion.  They fit like a glove and the ANC is great.  Love the deeper bass.  Case is much smaller.  I do wish they had wireless charging and a pause sensor.  All that said, so far, these are a great upgrade.  Have to find some serious time for them in my rotation.


They require some burn in time. They sound a bit harsh out of the box, and settle down after about an hour.


----------



## scottsays (Nov 12, 2021)

Shure Aonic Free look very good---amazon has same day delivery.


----------



## Caipirina

No one bothered to check out the KZ VX10? 
1DD+4BA per side...  or is everyone just overwhelmed by how much similar stuff they keep churning out? 
 (the wired ZEX with 'electrostatic' blah blah sound at least somewhat new, though I have yet to find some more info on the alleged electrostatic ... )


----------



## Tommy C (Nov 12, 2021)

Caipirina said:


> No one bothered to check out the KZ VX10?
> 1DD+4BA per side...  or is everyone just overwhelmed by how much similar stuff they keep churning out?
> (the wired ZEX with 'electrostatic' blah blah sound at least somewhat new, though I have yet to find some more info on the alleged electrostatic ... )



I’m intrigued with their setup but a. battery life is only 4 hours which in real life might be closer to 3 and change and b. they probably don’t have app, ambient or any other features and even at their MSRP it will be almost an immediate pass for me.
KZ used to be interesting years ago when they had super cheap stuff that sounded decent but since then they have been releasing and rebranding their own products including their own CCA sub-brand and it just feels like they are throwing stuff on the wall nowadays to see if it sticks.


----------



## quick1 (Nov 12, 2021)

bladefd said:


> Hmm, they seem too big tbh..


No kidding, it looks like a dung beetle is sitting on your ear. Maybe they put a slimmed down version of HAL 9000 in there? The good thing is that it looks like there's plenty of room for drivers and all kinds of electronic features. With all that room the bass and sub bass should be fantastic if not the best out there for tws. Like a sub woofer to a rattling license plate, they should chatter your gold or platinum grills out of your mouth if the song goes that low. On the other hand part of wanting a tws set is freedom of movement while on the go, just how big is the case to store and charge those in? Is a man bag going to be required lol
Sorry, in a weird mood today.


----------



## BooleanBones

erockg said:


> Received the Black version of the AZ60s from Amazon Japan a short while ago.  I have to say, sooooo much better than the 70s in my opinion.  They fit like a glove and the ANC is great.  Love the deeper bass.  Case is much smaller.  I do wish they had wireless charging and a pause sensor.  All that said, so far, these are a great upgrade.  Have to find some serious time for them in my rotation.


Nice. I have been holding out for the black ones to be available domestically. Feedback on them sound good so far  Keep us updated.


----------



## erockg

Hey, I thought the same thing.  Even put it in writing here.  But man, you put them in and crank some good tunes... they truly shine.  They fit way better than the XM3.  I work from home, so they aren't my walk around town buds.  Although, I did take them on a 2 mile walk and had zero issues, just completely immersed in the music.  I put some double flange Etymotic tips on them and they seal up perfect.  New Mastodon is going to make my head explode.  News at 11.


----------



## erockg

BooleanBones said:


> Nice. I have been holding out for the black ones to be available domestically. Feedback on them sound good so far  Keep us updated.


I figured Amazon Japan was good, so took a shot.  They don't charge tax, so with shipping it almost cost the same.  So far so good.  Small, light, ANC is great.  Used them last night to watch Foundation.  Going to have to flip some others to slot these in the lineup


----------



## dweaver

See the WF-1000XM4 on sale in Canada for $350. But I am still leaning toward the AZ60. I keep reading reviews where they say the Sony are more musical. But I struggle because I find the 1000XM3 to dark and the XM4 is supposed to be even darker sounding. So how does that translate to more musical?

Sony holds the edge is features and ANC but aside from that the AZ60 seems to offer what I think would be a better music experience.

Has anyone tried the AZ60 in wind? Technics claims they have resolved wind issues which is a HUGE thing for me as I live in a place with lots of wind. So I want a headphone that blocks the wind when listening to music and when on the phone.

I have the AZ70 and find it is OK with wind when listening to music but generally have to disable ANC in anything above low wind level or the wind messes with the mics. Still it is better then the WF-1000XM3. I also have the Samsung Buds Pro which handles wind very well but has less effective ANC.


----------



## erockg

dweaver said:


> See the WF-1000XM4 on sale in Canada for $350. But I am still leaning toward the AZ60. I keep reading reviews where they say the Sony are more musical. But I struggle because I find the 1000XM3 to dark and the XM4 is supposed to be even darker sounding. So how does that translate to more musical?
> 
> Sony holds the edge is features and ANC but aside from that the AZ60 seems to offer what I think would be a better music experience.
> 
> ...


I'm actually going back and forth with the XM4 and AZ60s today.  I prefer the sound of the AZ60.  ANC is great on both.  I've never had good luck with wind and ANC headphones, so I always turn off the ANC.  But we don't have gusty winds here in Los Angeles often.  AZ60 buds are a bit smaller than the XM4.  Sony has a few other features that for me, might sway one who had neither - wireless charging and auto pause when you take the buds out.  Plus a slew of other tech features.  Don't get me wrong, the Technics are great.  It was only a matter of time before Sony and Technics nailed it.  Both of these are great choice, with the AZ60 having an edge for music.  I'm sure the next gen of these will be even better.


----------



## assassin10000

dweaver said:


> See the WF-1000XM4 on sale in Canada for $350. But I am still leaning toward the AZ60. I keep reading reviews where they say the Sony are more musical. But I struggle because I find the 1000XM3 to dark and the XM4 is supposed to be even darker sounding. So how does that translate to more musical?
> 
> Sony holds the edge is features and ANC but aside from that the AZ60 seems to offer what I think would be a better music experience.
> 
> ...


The Sony EQ for the XM4 is pretty effective. I found it slightly too dark without it but with EQ they're very good. I prefer an Ety like DF neutral sound signature.

No EQ





EQ:



Settings on measurement:





If you want a more harman like signature just move the bass up.


----------



## BooleanBones

erockg said:


> I figured Amazon Japan was good, so took a shot.  They don't charge tax, so with shipping it almost cost the same.  So far so good.  Small, light, ANC is great.  Used them last night to watch Foundation.  Going to have to flip some others to slot these in the lineup


I have been hooked on Foundation as well. You are like my long lost brother


----------



## erockg

BooleanBones said:


> I have been hooked on Foundation as well. You are like my long lost brother


HAHAHAHA.  So true!  Great episode this week .


----------



## BooleanBones

erockg said:


> I'm actually going back and forth with the XM4 and AZ60s today.  I prefer the sound of the AZ60.  ANC is great on both.  I've never had good luck with wind and ANC headphones, so I always turn off the ANC.  But we don't have gusty winds here in Los Angeles often.  AZ60 buds are a bit smaller than the XM4.  Sony has a few other features that for me, might sway one who had neither - wireless charging and auto pause when you take the buds out.  Plus a slew of other tech features.  Don't get me wrong, the Technics are great.  It was only a matter of time before Sony and Technics nailed it.  Both of these are great choice, with the AZ60 having an edge for music.  I'm sure the next gen of these will be even better.


Hopefully you are using the tips formerly known as Sonys on the XM4s. Night and day for my over stock and ended up keeping my XM4s


----------



## erockg

Oddly enough, I put on some Large Devialet tips and they feel like I'm wearing nothing.  Stock tips were awful.


----------



## erockg

erockg said:


> I'm actually going back and forth with the XM4 and AZ60s today.  I prefer the sound of the AZ60.  ANC is great on both.  I've never had good luck with wind and ANC headphones, so I always turn off the ANC.  But we don't have gusty winds here in Los Angeles often.  AZ60 buds are a bit smaller than the XM4.  Sony has a few other features that for me, might sway one who had neither - wireless charging and auto pause when you take the buds out.  Plus a slew of other tech features.  Don't get me wrong, the Technics are great.  It was only a matter of time before Sony and Technics nailed it.  Both of these are great choice, with the AZ60 having an edge for music.  I'm sure the next gen of these will be even better.


Addendum to this:  The Sony do have much better ANC.  I have a fan here that kicked in because the gates of Hell have opened up here in LA.  Sonys knocked the fan right out.  Technics not so much even after tweaking the ANC setting.


----------



## BooleanBones

erockg said:


> Addendum to this:  The Sony do have much better ANC.  I have a fan here that kicked in because the gates of Hell have opened up here in LA.  Sonys knocked the fan right out.  Technics not so much even after tweaking the ANC setting.


The features on the Sony's really rock in my opinion. I really like the one touch ambient feature with the transitioning back into audio after and not just blasting it back into your ears. Tips are definitely the keys to success along with the EQ happy path mentioned by Assassin above. Definitely my utility headphones for flights etc. On a side note, I am secretly intrigued to try out those Denons (Japan only right now) too. Should have my in laws mail those and the Panasonics to me, but then I would be stuck with them.


----------



## erockg

Agreed.  Looking at those Denon, but man, why did they have to go and imitate the APP style .  Granted, I'm sure the blow the APP away in sound quality.  I used to love my many Denon receivers back in the day.


----------



## jant71 (Nov 12, 2021)

BooleanBones said:


> The features on the Sony's really rock in my opinion. I really like the one touch ambient feature with the transitioning back into audio after and not just blasting it back into your ears. Tips are definitely the keys to success along with the EQ happy path mentioned by Assassin above. Definitely my utility headphones for flights etc. On a side note, I am secretly intrigued to try out those Denons (Japan only right now) too. Should have my in laws mail those and the Panasonics to me, but then I would be stuck with them.


Of course, you might want to try the Denon for the sound but they are not feature rich and the word on them is the ANC is not really very effective. Sounds like the AZ60 is better for sound and ANC. Denon does seem to have a bigger stage but other things are not quite as good.


----------



## BooleanBones

jant71 said:


> Of course, you might want to try the Denon for the sound but they are not feature rich and the word on them is the ANC is not really effective at all.


Yep, plus no app from the looks of things. I am a glutton for punishment sometimes


----------



## TooFrank

clerkpalmer said:


> Hey all, as previously mentioned, I'm going to be taking some time off from IEMs to let my tinnitus settle down.  Conventional wisdom is IEMS are bad for tinnitus however, it appears speakers are a safer alternative.  Going off topic but can anyone recommend a nice desktop hifi setup or BT speakers? Nothing full sized.  Just for my desk.  I'll probably just stream via Tidal or something like that.  I have some sonos which is fine but was thinking of going a bit higher fidelity.  Recommendations are appreciated.  Hope to be back soon - I already miss this place!


FWIW: The AirPods 3rd gen are almost as open back HPs.  Even if the are IEMs, they could be an option too?
(We miss you too)


----------



## jant71

BooleanBones said:


> Yep, plus no app from the looks of things. I am a glutton for punishment sometimes


Stick with the black Technics from Japan.


----------



## jant71 (Nov 12, 2021)

Mifo S...








At least for Chi-Fi it does have ambient and ANC. 




No aptX but does do LHDC. IPX7 for an ANC model is surprising. BA though. Not sure they would have both dynamic and armature in this model since they went armature for the 3.5 gram weight and small size for the sleep mode /flush fit.




https://www.qucox.com/mifo-s-review/


----------



## bladefd

erockg said:


> HAHAHAHA.  So true!  Great episode this week .


Is it better than the books? I liked the premise but didn't the style of it. Felt too much like an anthology. I don't like the concept of anthology - I'd rather have a single story/plot.


----------



## nekonhime

jant71 said:


> Mifo S...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


165$ from AliExpress, quite expensive for this brand


----------



## erockg

bladefd said:


> Is it better than the books? I liked the premise but didn't the style of it. Felt too much like an anthology. I don't like the concept of anthology - I'd rather have a single story/plot.


IMO, nothing is better than a book.  I've never read the books for this one though.


----------



## jant71

nekonhime said:


> 165$ from AliExpress, quite expensive for this brand


Yes. Cool idea for a full featured sports and sleep bud but needs a good execution. Really flush buds with ANC and calls being good is tough as is fitting and removing them with that size and touch controls. They are $150 for 11.11 though. Any takers??


Also, I am selling my Jabra Elite 3. Figure I'd mention it here first before putting a FS thread and an ebay listings tomorrow. Remember they are the overachiever with some liking the call quality as much or better than the 7 models and they have aptX and with that don't sound any worse being $100 cheaper. Nicer shape for me and some others, they have no ambient switching niggles and the track controls do migrate for both L and R single side use.


----------



## Ceeluh7

dweaver said:


> See the WF-1000XM4 on sale in Canada for $350. But I am still leaning toward the AZ60. I keep reading reviews where they say the Sony are more musical. But I struggle because I find the 1000XM3 to dark and the XM4 is supposed to be even darker sounding. So how does that translate to more musical?
> 
> Sony holds the edge is features and ANC but aside from that the AZ60 seems to offer what I think would be a better music experience.
> 
> ...


I owned the xm4 and I own the AZ60. Personally I feel the AZ60 is much better. The anc is very close, I don't think the xm4 is miles ahead at all. Sound wise I'd take the AZ60's any day. The AZ60 have a nice musical sound as well and better bass. I founf the xm4 to be very lacking in that dept. I don't know if this helps at all because everyone is different but I did not like the xm4's at all. Something was missing in the sound to me.i liked the fit, had a great seal and eq'd them the best I could but something was missing. I will say that I did have to eq the AZ60 a bit as well, I went with different tips then stock as well


----------



## The Gig

Brand new member here- I've read a couple hundred pages in this thread already, but maybe someone can help.
I'm looking for a set of tws- $500usd range tops.  Mostly just music on my S21 Ultra through Tidal and Qobuz. I listen mostly to electronic, like downtempo, chillstep, melodic dubstep, deep house type stuff.  I like bass. Not over the top, but definitely hard hitting lows.  I want to feel it.  
I bought and returned the PI7.  Sound great, but not really great for that genre.  I didn't feel like they were worth the 400.
I'm considering the Devialet Gemini, Klipsch T5, Shure etc... if anyone has some experience with a set that deliver that type of experience in that music genre that'd be awesome. TIA


----------



## nekonhime

The Gig said:


> Brand new member here- I've read a couple hundred pages in this thread already, but maybe someone can help.
> I'm looking for a set of tws- $500usd range tops.  Mostly just music on my S21 Ultra through Tidal and Qobuz. I listen mostly to electronic, like downtempo, chillstep, melodic dubstep, deep house type stuff.  I like bass. Not over the top, but definitely hard hitting lows.  I want to feel it.
> I bought and returned the PI7.  Sound great, but not really great for that genre.  I didn't feel like they were worth the 400.
> I'm considering the Devialet Gemini, Klipsch T5, Shure etc... if anyone has some experience with a set that deliver that type of experience in that music genre that'd be awesome. TIA


M&D mw08 or sony wf1000xm4 ( always eq them first). Klipsch will fit for classical music more


----------



## nekonhime

jant71 said:


> Yes. Cool idea for a full featured sports and sleep bud but needs a good execution. Really flush buds with ANC and calls being good is tough as is fitting and removing them with that size and touch controls. They are $150 for 11.11 though. Any takers??
> 
> 
> Also, I am selling my Jabra Elite 3. Figure I'd mention it here first before putting a FS thread and an ebay listings tomorrow. Remember they are the overachiever with some liking the call quality as much or better than the 7 models and they have aptX and with that don't sound any worse being $100 cheaper. Nicer shape for me and some others, they have no ambient switching niggles and the track controls do migrate for both L and R single side use.


Also, they don't even support aptX. Hard pass for me.


----------



## The Gig

nekonhime said:


> M&D mw08 or sony wf1000xm4 ( always eq them first). Klipsch will fit for classical music more


I've read the MW 08 is underwhelming, and a little boomy and muddy in a couple places.  I may try the Sony, but from my research they sound good but not amazing.  Thank you for your suggestions!


----------



## jsmiller58

BooleanBones said:


> Should have my in laws mail those and the Panasonics to me, but then I would be stuck with them.


The in-laws?  😂


----------



## jant71 (Nov 12, 2021)

The Gig said:


> Brand new member here- I've read a couple hundred pages in this thread already, but maybe someone can help.
> I'm looking for a set of tws- $500usd range tops.  Mostly just music on my S21 Ultra through Tidal and Qobuz. I listen mostly to electronic, like downtempo, chillstep, melodic dubstep, deep house type stuff.  I like bass. Not over the top, but definitely hard hitting lows.  I want to feel it.
> I bought and returned the PI7.  Sound great, but not really great for that genre.  I didn't feel like they were worth the 400.
> I'm considering the Devialet Gemini, Klipsch T5, Shure etc... if anyone has some experience with a set that deliver that type of experience in that music genre that'd be awesome. TIA


You could grab the KZ-AZ09 Pro and your choice of earphones that have the bass you are looking for. Most TWS have all the electronics jammed in there so they don't have open spaces like regular earphones to have bass you can feel. They also don't have as much power for the drivers to push more air for as much true feel. AZ09 Pro on high gain mode can do that more than many of the amps in TWS earphones.


----------



## scubaphish

The Gig said:


> Brand new member here- I've read a couple hundred pages in this thread already, but maybe someone can help.
> I'm looking for a set of tws- $500usd range tops.  Mostly just music on my S21 Ultra through Tidal and Qobuz. I listen mostly to electronic, like downtempo, chillstep, melodic dubstep, deep house type stuff.  I like bass. Not over the top, but definitely hard hitting lows.  I want to feel it.
> I bought and returned the PI7.  Sound great, but not really great for that genre.  I didn't feel like they were worth the 400.
> I'm considering the Devialet Gemini, Klipsch T5, Shure etc... if anyone has some experience with a set that deliver that type of experience in that music genre that'd be awesome. TIA


I love my Gemini and definitely recommend them. I think they sound amazing. Big sound, plenty of clarity & definition, and responsive eq (but I leave on default.).
Full disclosure there could be some driver flex; but I just leave anc and transparency on the low setting and I forget about it. Speaking of anc, surprisingly excellent.

I’m super tempted by the shure and would definitely suggest trying both


----------



## The Gig

I have been leaning hard toward these.  I don't mind trying a few but don't like to buy/return.  Just makes me feel weird- maybe it shouldn't though.  I felt bad sending the PI7 back- I try to do my research first but damn there are so many options!


----------



## nekonhime

The Gig said:


> I've read the MW 08 is underwhelming, and a little boomy and muddy in a couple places.  I may try the Sony, but from my research they sound good but not amazing.  Thank you for your suggestions!


The mw08 is warm but not muddy like you are sitting in a bar.


----------



## nekonhime

The Gig said:


> I have been leaning hard toward these.  I don't mind trying a few but don't like to buy/return.  Just makes me feel weird- maybe it shouldn't though.  I felt bad sending the PI7 back- I try to do my research first but damn there are so many options!


Tbh, there isn't wrong with buy and return, but if you can afford to do it or find a good deal then go ahead.


----------



## quick1 (Nov 15, 2021)

erockg said:


> Oddly enough, I put on some Large Devialet tips and they feel like I'm wearing nothing.  Stock tips were awful.


Stock tips= Damn near the worst thing I've experienced. I thought these things were $300 trash when I used them. Tried the Sennheiser tips and got the same experience. It wasn't until I installed SednaEarfit Crystals that the Gemini's revealed themselves to me. I've been through several sizes looking for the seal that's just enough to seal without causing discomfort. I normally use a Med to Large size. Sedna's come in 1/2 sizes and I started at ML. I'm now down to MS and they still seal great with no losses. They fit deeper in the ear than anything that I've tried and they also have the largest opening area to the ear. That could be because they are originally designed for the Galaxy Buds Pro which has a very shallow insertion depth.

Just delivered today- Final Type E
Right now I've got Final Type E's on them in size Med, and they are sealing. The rubber/ silicone material is more flexible than the Crystal's. They don't fit as deep into the ear as the Crystal's and they don't have as large of an opening to the ear. They seem to have a deeper bass- sub bass, but everything else takes a SLIGHT backseat to me.
Vocals are a touch further back, instrument details are slightly less noticeable and the highs are blended more. The Crystal's seem to give me a little more open, spacious presentation, but I don't do any strictly instrumental listening.  I'd rate the Final Type E's a VERY CLOSE SECOND BEST for me so far and that could change with more listening.
I guess it depends on what you want, a slightly more laid back presentation with more bass- sub bass, or a more immediate presentation with less bass. Granted the bass with the Crystals isn't far off the Type E's. Pretty sure if I was going to watch a movie I'd use the Type E's for when things get blown up and I don't want on screen actors in my face.

Tried-
1. AZLA SednaEarfit Crystal. (Meant for Galaxy Buds Pro, have a deeper insertion depth) Tried ML, M, MS https://www.amazon.com/dp/B097G272CG?psc=1&ref=ppx_yo2_dt_b_product_details
2. Final Type E. Size Med https://www.mtmtaudio.com/products/...tooth-earphone-2-pairs?variant=32559994830908
3. Comply True Grip Pro. Size Large tried. Decent isolation. Good bass https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07W45LHBT?psc=1&ref=ppx_yo2_dt_b_product_details
CharJenPro Memory Foam Ear Tips: Med and Large tried. Ok isolation. Decent bass, not much for details, overall laidback somewhat muted sound.  https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0925MD1ZR?psc=1&ref=ppx_yo2_dt_b_product_details
FIIL T1XS supplied tips. Horrible isolation. Decent details but midrange is somewhat lost. Sizes Med- large tried.
Sennheiser Momentum True Wireless tips. Med, Large tried. Horrible sound isolation. Where my bass go?
Samsung Bud Pro tips: Med and Large sizes tried. No isolation. No bass. Not good for mids either. Good details.

Next up, Acoustune AET07


----------



## BooleanBones

Ceeluh7 said:


> I owned the xm4 and I own the AZ60. Personally I feel the AZ60 is much better. The anc is very close, I don't think the xm4 is miles ahead at all. Sound wise I'd take the AZ60's any day. The AZ60 have a nice musical sound as well and better bass. I founf the xm4 to be very lacking in that dept. I don't know if this helps at all because everyone is different but I did not like the xm4's at all. Something was missing in the sound to me.i liked the fit, had a great seal and eq'd them the best I could but something was missing. I will say that I did have to eq the AZ60 a bit as well, I went with different tips then stock as well


I think from what I have seen so far, the AZ60 mics for calls are much better as well. For me, the Sony's took a big turn for the better in SQ when I switched to Final Type-E TWS tips. They were about to be sent back until that point. Really excited to try out the AZ60s though. The never ending quest for SQ


----------



## BooleanBones

jsmiller58 said:


> The in-laws?  😂


Yeah, they live in Tokyo. I haven't been over there the last couple years to visit due to Covid though, otherwise I would snag them myself.


----------



## assassin10000

The Gig said:


> Brand new member here- I've read a couple hundred pages in this thread already, but maybe someone can help.
> I'm looking for a set of tws- $500usd range tops.  Mostly just music on my S21 Ultra through Tidal and Qobuz. I listen mostly to electronic, like downtempo, chillstep, melodic dubstep, deep house type stuff.  I like bass. Not over the top, but definitely hard hitting lows.  I want to feel it.
> I bought and returned the PI7.  Sound great, but not really great for that genre.  I didn't feel like they were worth the 400.
> I'm considering the Devialet Gemini, Klipsch T5, Shure etc... if anyone has some experience with a set that deliver that type of experience in that music genre that'd be awesome. TIA



The new Fiio UTWS5 and your choice of IEM.


----------



## The Gig

assassin10000 said:


> The new Fiio UTWS5 and your choice of IEM.


Starting to look at this as an option rather than all in one buds, but now I have a whole new set of research!!!!!  I don't know much about which IEMs to look at, time to read up


----------



## scottsays

Well just got the Shure Aonic Free...ordered this morning and arrived 12 hours later. So far I am liking them---I am a huge Shure fan--have the srh1840, srh 1540 , Aonic 50  and the Aonic 4---love the Shure sound--it really appeals to me. The Free is obviously rather large for a TWS but it does not bother me as it sits comfortably in my ear and I really like the sound---the Shure app has a very cool parametric EQ so the sound can be nicely adjusted.


----------



## erockg

scottsays said:


> Well just got the Shure Aonic Free...ordered this morning and arrived 12 hours later. So far I am liking them---I am a huge Shure fan--have the srh1840, srh 1540 , Aonic 50  and the Aonic 4---love the Shure sound--it really appeals to me. The Free is obviously rather large for a TWS but it does not bother me as it sits comfortably in my ear and I really like the sound---the Shure app has a very cool parametric EQ so the sound can be nicely adjusted.


Very cool to hear.  Love mine too.


----------



## erockg

scottsays said:


> Well just got the Shure Aonic Free...ordered this morning and arrived 12 hours later. So far I am liking them---I am a huge Shure fan--have the srh1840, srh 1540 , Aonic 50  and the Aonic 4---love the Shure sound--it really appeals to me. The Free is obviously rather large for a TWS but it does not bother me as it sits comfortably in my ear and I really like the sound---the Shure app has a very cool parametric EQ so the sound can be nicely adjusted.


Also, if you get another wild hair, check out the TW2 2nd Gen.  I popped my SE846s on them and whew, they are incredible.  Same button setup, app features, etc. as the Free.


----------



## bladefd

quick1 said:


> Stock tips= Damn near the worst thing I've experienced. I thought these things were $300 trash when I used them. Tried the Sennheiser tips and got the same experience. It wasn't until I installed SednaEarfit Crystals that the Gemini's revealed themselves to me. I've been through several sizes looking for the seal that's just enough to seal without causing discomfort. I normally use a Med to Large size. Sedna's come in 1/2 sizes and I started at ML. I'm now down to MS and they still seal great with no losses. They fit deeper in the ear than anything that I've tried and they also have the largest opening area to the ear. That could be because they are originally designed for the Galaxy Buds Pro which has a very shallow insertion depth.
> 
> Just delivered today- Final Type E
> Right now I've got Final Type E's on them in size Med, and they are sealing. The rubber/ silicone material is more flexible than the Crystal's. They don't fit as deep into the ear as the Crystal's and they don't have as large of an opening to the ear. They seem to have a deeper bass- sub bass, but everything else takes a SLIGHT backseat to me.
> ...


Try ePro TW00: https://smile.amazon.com/dp/B08LPV19KK

I really like them. Great price too. Quite a few posters here use them


----------



## scottsays (Nov 12, 2021)

erockg said:


> Also, if you get another wild hair, check out the TW2 2nd Gen.  I popped my SE846s on them and whew, they are incredible.  Same button setup, app features, etc. as the Free.


I bought the
FiiO UtWS3 a couple of months ago--and I see they just came out with an upgraded one---this hobby--always coming out with a bigger better one!​
https://hifigo.com/collections/fiio/products/fiio-utws5


----------



## erockg

scottsays said:


> I bought the
> FiiO UtWS3 a couple of months ago--and I see they just came out with an upgraded one---this hobby--always coming out with a bigger better one!​
> https://hifigo.com/collections/fiio/products/fiio-utws5


Yeah, I tried them.  I prefer the TW2.  But I haven't tried the UTWS5 yet.  That's why it's so fun!


----------



## assassin10000

scottsays said:


> I bought the
> FiiO UtWS3 a couple of months ago--and I see they just came out with an upgraded one---this hobby--always coming out with a bigger better one!​
> https://hifigo.com/collections/fiio/products/fiio-utws5



Yep. 

I held off on the UTWS3 as it didn't have qi charging. Waiting for it to make it onto Amazon.



erockg said:


> Yeah, I tried them.  I prefer the TW2.  But I haven't tried the UTWS5 yet.  That's why it's so fun!



When you try them, let us know how they compare.


----------



## erockg

For now, I'm pretty satisfied with the Shure TW2 Second Gen.  Not a big Fiio fan yet.


----------



## Ceeluh7

BooleanBones said:


> I think from what I have seen so far, the AZ60 mics for calls are much better as well. For me, the Sony's took a big turn for the better in SQ when I switched to Final Type-E TWS tips. They were about to be sent back until that point. Really excited to try out the AZ60s though. The never ending quest for SQ


Just so you know... May help or may not... I am using the final E tips which came with the Final E4000. They seem to really tighten things up with the AZ60. Not that they were that bad stock. 1 thing I can recommend if and when you purchase these, they put a small piece of foam in every stock tip. I removed those. I don't think they help with... Anything. And dude, yes, I am constantly searching for the best possible SQ in a portable (tws) form as well. The AZ60 are up there. They still are behind the Lypertek Pureplay Z7... Imo as far as SQ goes but that is just me. I did not like the xm4's all that much, I mean... 275 bucks for something that gets beat in SQ by the $70 H1's, again, at least to my ears and with my Library. I think you'll enjoy the AZ60's. It takes about a week and a half for the Clarity to shine thru. These were congested in complicated tracks in the beginning and there was a metallic bite to the ends of vocals... Fortunately that does go away. The volume is not the loudest out there but is certainly capable. As far as mics... Anyone I have asked has said that my voice is very clear.. I'm digging these man


----------



## Ceeluh7

assassin10000 said:


> Yep.
> 
> I held off on the UTWS3 as it didn't have qi charging. Waiting for it to make it onto Amazon.
> 
> ...


The Utws3 are monsters. I bought both the mmcx and 2 pin because I enjoy them so much. I am awaiting the utws5, I keep checking for them to make thier way to Amazon...


----------



## Darkestred

AZ60 or Shure Aonic.  Go.


----------



## erockg

Darkestred said:


> AZ60 or Shure Aonic.  Go.


Shure Aonic what model?


----------



## Darkestred

erockg said:


> Shure Aonic what model?


Ahh.  My bad.  "Free" model.


----------



## erockg (Nov 13, 2021)

Darkestred said:


> Ahh.  My bad.  "Free" model.


I have them both.  Shure for better sound.  Technics sound is great (not as good as Shure) ANC and size.  Both transparency work very well and zero issues on many zoom calls for me.


----------



## adnhussn

Ceeluh7 said:


> Just so you know... May help or may not... I am using the final E tips which came with the Final E4000. They seem to really tighten things up with the AZ60. Not that they were that bad stock. 1 thing I can recommend if and when you purchase these, they put a small piece of foam in every stock tip. I removed those. I don't think they help with... Anything. And dude, yes, I am constantly searching for the best possible SQ in a portable (tws) form as well. The AZ60 are up there. They still are behind the Lypertek Pureplay Z7... Imo as far as SQ goes but that is just me. I did not like the xm4's all that much, I mean... 275 bucks for something that gets beat in SQ by the $70 H1's, again, at least to my ears and with my Library. I think you'll enjoy the AZ60's. It takes about a week and a half for the Clarity to shine thru. These were congested in complicated tracks in the beginning and there was a metallic bite to the ends of vocals... Fortunately that does go away. The volume is not the loudest out there but is certainly capable. As far as mics... Anyone I have asked has said that my voice is very clear.. I'm digging these man


Amen. Aside from some bugginess here and there and a somewhat weak BT connection, I'm loving the AZ60. Using AZLA SednaEatfit Crystal seems to open the AZ60 up quite a bit and make them feel less congested. Haven't really felt the need to fiddle with the EQ yet. I might return my L3P...not that there's anything necessarily wrong with them, but I feel like the AZ60 does most things better (call quality, ANC, ambient).


----------



## quick1 (Nov 13, 2021)

bladefd said:


> Try ePro TW00: https://smile.amazon.com/dp/B08LPV19KK
> 
> I really like them. Great price too. Quite a few posters here use them


Done. I actually remember that I was going to order those because someone posted about those earlier in this thread, can't remember why I didn't order them. I think I got distracted on finding the perfect size SednaEatfit Crystal's.
I also ordered more of the SEDNA Crystal's but in the standard TWS format. From the pictures it looks like they won't insert as deeply into my ear as the ones meant for the G Bud Pro, we'll see how that works.
I'm wondering if somehow I can find the bass of the Final Type E with the mid and upper end of the SednaEatfit Crystal's. I know, that's probably asking too much.


----------



## Nick24JJ (Nov 13, 2021)

I got my AZ60 last night, still testing them. I removed that foam from the tips, as well and using the large earpieces. They sound nice, they sound OK, but it is still too early to judge. One thing I can confirm is that my phone has to be in the same room with me = weak Bluetooth connectivity. As soon as I will leave the room it interrupts the connection. I just had one quick call but they could hear me very clearly (inside my house). I also confirm that they do not play loud. I use them with my phone volume at max. I will give them a week and I will leave them on playing for a couple of hours to burn in.

When it comes to Fiio UTWS5, is there any other Bluetooth amplifier that supports LDAC? This device would be perfect for me IF it could drive my TRI I3, like my Qudelix 5K does. But something tells me that it cannot... My point of reference is my TRI I3 + Qudelix 5K with a good TRI cable. But this setup is not convenient for the streets or even for indoors, when I want to do the chores or brush my teeth etc, due to the cable. This is why I am seeking to go fully wireless.


----------



## jant71 (Nov 13, 2021)

Interesting to hear the Technics with a possibly weaker connection. Just read back over the product page and no mention of antenna or stability of connection. I might of bought the AT over the AZ60 cause of the control scheme and buttons, cheaper price, bigger battery, and having aptX but they do mention about having an original antenna design for the housing and trying to be good even in subway and crowded areas. The Japanese brands always seem to concerned about that with their crowded commutes so surprised they didn't do better.

The AT ATH-CKS50TW beat my Jabra for connection and Jabra is no slouch at all for connection.


----------



## potix

Ceeluh7 said:


> Just so you know... May help or may not... I am using the final E tips which came with the Final E4000. They seem to really tighten things up with the AZ60. Not that they were that bad stock. 1 thing I can recommend if and when you purchase these, they put a small piece of foam in every stock tip. I removed those. I don't think they help with... Anything. And dude, yes, I am constantly searching for the best possible SQ in a portable (tws) form as well. The AZ60 are up there. They still are behind the Lypertek Pureplay Z7... Imo as far as SQ goes but that is just me. I did not like the xm4's all that much, I mean... 275 bucks for something that gets beat in SQ by the $70 H1's, again, at least to my ears and with my Library. I think you'll enjoy the AZ60's. It takes about a week and a half for the Clarity to shine thru. These were congested in complicated tracks in the beginning and there was a metallic bite to the ends of vocals... Fortunately that does go away. The volume is not the loudest out there but is certainly capable. As far as mics... Anyone I have asked has said that my voice is very clear.. I'm digging these man


Hi, thanks for your opinions, much appreciated.
I've been using xm4 since july, mostly because they are great all-rounders but I can feel they lack some finesse compared to, say, PI7 that I couldn't eq to my taste.
It's like listening to some high sensitivity loudspeakers, with a "whooosh" sound (I don't know how to explain in technical terms , resolution? details? separation?), same experience as in front of a stage, even in ldac mode. Not that it's too bad but Xm4 are also a bit uncomfortable to wear in my experience.
So if we are talking about technical grade how would you place these az60 against xm4 and other expensive tws?
I'm not really interested in their tuning (unless there is some bad peak) but I'm looking for some improvement in resolution/details/separation, without sacrificing features (anc, touch controls, ambient mode and others). Lypertek are not an option to me, long stems and protrude too much. And I want to reward products that are on par with technical evolution (high resolution codecs, speak to chat, cvc features ecc...) so I wouldn't buy some expensive set like b&o or devialet that look like audiophile gadgets with bugs.


----------



## jant71

potix said:


> Hi, thanks for your opinions, much appreciated.
> I've been using xm4 since july, mostly because they are great all-rounders but I can feel they lack some finesse compared to, say, PI7 that I couldn't eq to my taste.
> It's like listening to some high sensitivity loudspeakers, with a "whooosh" sound (I don't know how to explain in technical terms , resolution? details? separation?), same experience as in front of a stage, even in ldac mode. Not that it's too bad but Xm4 are also a bit uncomfortable to wear in my experience.
> So if we are talking about technical grade how would you place these az60 against xm4 and other expensive tws?
> I'm not really interested in their tuning (unless there is some bad peak) but I'm looking for some improvement in resolution/details/separation, without sacrificing features (anc, touch controls, ambient mode and others). Lypertek are not an option to me, long stems and protrude too much. And I want to reward products that are on par with technical evolution (high resolution codecs, speak to chat, cvc features ecc...) so I wouldn't buy some expensive set like b&o or devialet that look like audiophile gadgets with bugs.


Lypertek have stems??


----------



## nekonhime

jant71 said:


> Interesting to hear the Technics with a possibly weaker connection. Just read back over the product page and no mention of antenna or stability of connection. I might of bought the AT over the AZ60 cause of the control scheme and buttons, cheaper price, bigger battery, and having aptX but they do mention about having an original antenna design for the housing and trying to be good even in subway and crowded areas. The Japanese brands always seem to concerned about that with their crowded commutes so surprised they didn't do better.
> 
> The AT ATH-CKS50TW beat my Jabra for connection and Jabra is no slouch at all for connection.


So how the two compare to each other in term of sq, anc and comfort?


----------



## jant71

nekonhime said:


> So how the two compare to each other in term of sq, anc and comfort?



Comfort is similar. Edge to the Jabra since they are a bit smaller and lighter. ANC goes to the Audio-Technica since the Jabra doesn't have ANC  The AT can do adaptive so they have the edge over the Jabra but both with just aptX, the AT is slanted towards the bass and the Jabra is balanced. The AT might have the best bass I have heard yet. Jabra surprised me with the bass tone and quality but it doesn't have the extension or impact or the front to back depth and imaging of the bass. Jabra is a bit brighter and less warm. Jabra sound pretty natural and do image pretty well. The Jabra were a bit better sounding than I thought they would be even vs the N6 Pro 2 but the AT is more like a headphone. AT is probably the best yet. It mixes the fun, has ability, is natural, and mixes it all up nicely.


----------



## nekonhime

jant71 said:


> Comfort is similar. Edge to the Jabra since they are a bit smaller and lighter. ANC goes to the Audio-Technica since the Jabra doesn't have ANC  The AT can do adaptive so they have the edge over the Jabra but both with just aptX, the AT is slanted towards the bass and the Jabra is balanced. The AT might have the best bass I have heard yet. Jabra surprised me with the bass tone and quality but it doesn't have the extension or impact or the front to back depth and imaging of the bass. Jabra is a bit brighter and less warm. Jabra sound pretty natural and do image pretty well. The Jabra were a bit better sounding than I thought they would be even vs the N6 Pro 2 but the AT is more like a headphone. AT is probably the best yet. It mixes the fun, has ability, is natural, and mixes it all up nicely.


My bad, I was asking about the at sks50tw vs the az60, but thanks for your information.


----------



## jant71

nekonhime said:


> My bad, I was asking about the at sks50tw vs the az60, but thanks for your information.


Yep, I found the comments on the connection a bit surprising because I am unfamiliar not that I own and disagree. I bought the AT instead of the AZ60.


----------



## kenjamin0523

Hi guys, I’m new in this field. I’m currently pairing my Fokus Pro with my Iphone. I wonder if the sound could be better if I pair it with any devices support aptX Adaptive . If yes, pls give me some advices what devices I should buy (only for transfer music no game).
Thanks


----------



## Ceeluh7

jant71 said:


> Interesting to hear the Technics with a possibly weaker connection. Just read back over the product page and no mention of antenna or stability of connection. I might of bought the AT over the AZ60 cause of the control scheme and buttons, cheaper price, bigger battery, and having aptX but they do mention about having an original antenna design for the housing and trying to be good even in subway and crowded areas. The Japanese brands always seem to concerned about that with their crowded commutes so surprised they didn't do better.
> 
> The AT ATH-CKS50TW beat my Jabra for connection and Jabra is no slouch at all for connection.


Hmm... I have used these out and about a bit and I have not even had one connection problem. Now I was not using these in a crowded subway, more like a semi crowded Wal-Mart.. Lol. I have been impressed by the AZ60.


----------



## Ceeluh7

Nick24JJ said:


> I got my AZ60 last night, still testing them. I removed that foam from the tips, as well and using the large earpieces. They sound nice, they sound OK, but it is still too early to judge. One thing I can confirm is that my phone has to be in the same room with me = weak Bluetooth connectivity. As soon as I will leave the room it interrupts the connection. I just had one quick call but they could hear me very clearly (inside my house). I also confirm that they do not play loud. I use them with my phone volume at max. I will give them a week and I will leave them on playing for a couple of hours to burn in.
> 
> When it comes to Fiio UTWS5, is there any other Bluetooth amplifier that supports LDAC? This device would be perfect for me IF it could drive my TRI I3, like my Qudelix 5K does. But something tells me that it cannot... My point of reference is my TRI I3 + Qudelix 5K with a good TRI cable. But this setup is not convenient for the streets or even for indoors, when I want to do the chores or brush my teeth etc, due to the cable. This is why I am seeking to go fully wireless.


The Utws5 will come with 33 MW @32 ohms and 53 MW @ 16 ohms and those numbers are a far cry from the 240mw of the balanced side of the Qudelix but the utws5 still are plenty powerful for sensitive to not so sensitive iems. The utws5 has better power output then the Utws3 and I can surely say that the Utws3 can just about bring my final audio e4000 to good drive ability. Granted I have to bring them to about 80-85%. Anyone who has owned Final iems knows they are farely hard to drive. Don't know if this helps... At all but you are asking a good question. 

About the AZ60, I agree about the volume level. I actually had to increase the EQ way up as well as the EQ on Poweramp and Uapp. Also, the good thing is I have not heard any distortion with the increases, they still sound very nice to me. I let the drivers settle for some time as well. Out of the box I did not like these.


----------



## jant71

Of course the AZ60 is just half of the equation. The device has a role as well. Certainly can be transmission differences.


----------



## nekonhime (Nov 13, 2021)

jant71 said:


> Yep, I found the comments on the connection a bit surprising because I am unfamiliar not that I own and disagree. I bought the AT instead of the AZ60.





kenjamin0523 said:


> Hi guys, I’m new in this field. I’m currently pairing my Fokus Pro with my Iphone. I wonder if the sound could be better if I pair it with any devices support aptX Adaptive . If yes, pls give me some advices what devices I should buy (only for transfer music no game).
> Thanks


Maybe search for devices that support Dolby Atmos ( not Iphone of course) for 3d sound and bluetooth 5.2 for stable connection ( I only see rog phone 5 have both).


----------



## regancipher

Finally finished reviewing the Tronsmart Onyx Prime....now I think I have tinnitus. They are loud, boomy, quite detailed but definitely more dynamic than I was expecting. Clarity is an improvement on their previous releases. Midbass transitions are good too.

https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/tr...wireless-earbuds-qcc3040-bt-5-2.25548/reviews


----------



## Ceeluh7

jant71 said:


> Of course the AZ60 is just half of the equation. The device has a role as well. Certainly can be transmission differences.


Agreed. I use my samsung note 10+ most of the time, I often wonder if some devices produce much better results and if so how much of a discernable difference there is. Good thought man


----------



## DigDub (Nov 13, 2021)

AZ60 connection is stable for me as well on Samsung flip 3 phone. Volume is fine as well, 50% is loud enough for me, anything over 70% is deafening.

As for the foam inside the tips, the XS tips have a shorter foam, about half the length of the the foam inside the large tips. So other than changing tips, changing the foam will alter the sound as well. The foam provides a dampening effect, I find removing them gives the bass an unnatural resonance and hollow quality, so I leave the foam in.


----------



## potix

jant71 said:


> Lypertek have stems??


Sorry it was a slip, I meant nozzles. Anyway I was probably confusing them with some other pair of tws, actually they don't look long. But they do stick out too much.


----------



## Ceeluh7

So I was listening to my AZ60's and Lp3's and decided I would figure out wth is up with this volume issue. I remembered a few years ago wiping the system cache helped with this very issue. So... I did just that and... It freaking worked. Why did I not do this sooner... Ya the AZ60 have enough volume, as do the LP3.


----------



## Ceeluh7

regancipher said:


> Finally finished reviewing the Tronsmart Onyx Prime....now I think I have tinnitus. They are loud, boomy, quite detailed but definitely more dynamic than I was expecting. Clarity is an improvement on their previous releases. Midbass transitions are good too.
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/tr...wireless-earbuds-qcc3040-bt-5-2.25548/reviews


Hey man... Great review. You got me searching Amazon for this set. Like i need another set of tws, or any audio related product. Anyways it was a good read dude.


----------



## adnhussn

jant71 said:


> Of course the AZ60 is just half of the equation. The device has a role as well. Certainly can be transmission differences.


Could be I have a faulty unit. It cuts out a room away with both my iPhone 13 Pro and MacBook.


----------



## Nick24JJ

Ceeluh7 said:


> So I was listening to my AZ60's and Lp3's and decided I would figure out wth is up with this volume issue. I remembered a few years ago *wiping the system cache* helped with this very issue. So... I did just that and... It freaking worked. Why did I not do this sooner... Ya the AZ60 have enough volume, as do the LP3.


What do you mean, what did you do exactly?

Also, one more question but I will PM you


----------



## The Gig

Ceeluh7 said:


> Agreed. I use my samsung note 10+ most of the time, I often wonder if some devices produce much better results and if so how much of a discernable difference there is. Good thought man


I had the note 10, now have the S21 Ultra.  Sound is different- I wish I still had the Note


----------



## dweaver

I see the AZ70 on sale in Amazon Canada for $149. Great price! 

I have been using mine lately and still love their sound.

I listed a bunch of TWS for sale for anyone interested. Time for me to clean up my TWS collection...


----------



## clerkpalmer

erockg said:


> If you're not going with an Arc, maybe.  It'll definitely add some nice room filling bass.  You could always add an Arc or the new Beam which has Atmos, later.  That's what is so great about Sono.  It's very modular.  I even added a Port to my turntable.  You're right, it really is fun


Found a BNIB Sub on craigslist for $500.  Definitely a nice upgrade for a pair of 1s.  Wish I could crank it up, but my ears won't let me.... thanks for tip.  I see myself going all in on Sonos soon.


----------



## Ceeluh7

Nick24JJ said:


> What do you mean, what did you do exactly?
> 
> Also, one more question but I will PM you


I went into the system settings and cleared the system cache. You have to go to the boot up menu. It brought the volume back to where it is supposed to be... Believe it or not


----------



## Ceeluh7

The Gig said:


> I had the note 10, now have the S21 Ultra.  Sound is different- I wish I still had the Note


I love the note series man. I have had all but one of them. Stinks they aren't making them anymore. I have held off getting a new phones because of that. I figure S21 will likely be next


----------



## The Gig

Ceeluh7 said:


> I love the note series man. I have had all but one of them. Stinks they aren't making them anymore. I have held off getting a new phones because of that. I figure S21 will likely be next


I went in to get a new note, they gave me 600 for my 4 yr old Note 8 but only toward a S21, So I kinda had to, hard to pass up.


----------



## CocaCola15

Ceeluh7 said:


> I went into the system settings and cleared the system cache. You have to go to the boot up menu. It brought the volume back to where it is supposed to be... Believe it or not


What device are we talking about? iPhone or Android ?


----------



## erockg

clerkpalmer said:


> Found a BNIB Sub on craigslist for $500.  Definitely a nice upgrade for a pair of 1s.  Wish I could crank it up, but my ears won't let me.... thanks for tip.  I see myself going all in on Sonos soon.


That is so awesome.  Congrats!  That's a great deal.


----------



## ryuflatron

I returned my B&O EQ today. It was fun while it lasted. Love its design, Wireless is convenient and ANC is handful but when they combine with the SQ, it doesn’t worth $400 USD. Maybe wait for a couple more years for better options.


----------



## dweaver

Has anyone tried the WF-C500? Curious how they sound. Reviews suggest they are a brighter signature so might be an interesting no frills TWS if you like Sony sound.


----------



## VICosPhi (Nov 13, 2021)

B&O sent me replacement finally and after being content with Technics AZ60, listened to the EQ again and wow the rich mids, instrument separation, forward sounding guitar chords accuracy is simply the best I have heard in TWS world. Such a pity these do not have good microphone, audio track controls or mute shortcuts while costing $400 and the buds being relatively larger in size...


----------



## Nick24JJ

Ceeluh7 said:


> I went into the system settings and cleared the system cache. You have to go to the boot up menu. It brought the volume back to where it is supposed to be... Believe it or not


I am clearing the cache on my Android phone multiple times per day, to close all the Apps. It has an App called Cleaner, which clears cache, the memory, any residual files etc. Are you referring to something different?

By the way, I've packed the Melomania 1+ and I will return them tomorrow. The more I am listening to the Technics AZ60, the more I like them! I also own the Melomania 1, so I am covered. The next device I will try will be the FiiO UTWS5 when it will become available on Amazon, and IF it will be capable of driving my TRI I3 - still waiting for an answer at their thread


----------



## Ceeluh7

CocaCola15 said:


> What device are we talking about? iPhone or Android ?


Android. Galaxy note 10+


----------



## Ceeluh7 (Nov 13, 2021)

Nick24JJ said:


> I am clearing the cache on my Android phone multiple times per day, to close all the Apps. It has an App called Cleaner, which clears cache, the memory, any residual files etc. Are you referring to something different?
> 
> By the way, I've packed the Melomania 1+ and I will return them tomorrow. The more I am listening to the Technics AZ60, the more I like them! I also own the Melomania 1, so I am covered. The next device I will try will be the FiiO UTWS5 when it will become available on Amazon, and IF it will be capable of driving my TRI I3 - still waiting for an answer at their thread


Ya so you have to go into the system boot. Menu. On the Galaxy note 10+ I turn off and then hold the power button and volume down... If I remember correctly. I held that until the boot menu pops up and from there  I found the option to clear the system cache... Not app cache. It honestly helped alot, esp with the AZ60. I also did this a couple years ago and it helped... Oddly enough. I can't say it will help every situation  or device but it certainly did mine. I actually connected my az60 to my Fiio m11 just to test the volume prior to the cache clearing. The volume was very much higher on the m11. I'm thinking wth! Then I remembered... Clear cache.

Glad you decided to keep these man, they are a great set and I don't blame you at all for returning the melomania 1+ if you already have the previous version. The AZ60 are a slick set, and, they only get better.. Imo. For all the features and far above average SQ I would say these a are close to the most complete set. At least from what I have heard. This is only my opinion. Dude the second I can purchase the utws5 trust me... I am getting them. I really enjoy the Utws3... Alot. I can only imagine how much better the 5 will be. I have to think it would drive the tri I3 pro. I can see why you would be hesitant though.


----------



## Ceeluh7

VICosPhi said:


> B&O sent me replacement finally and after being content with Technics AZ60, listened to the EQ again and wow the rich mids, instrument separation, forward sounding guitar chords accuracy is simply the best I have heard in TWS world. Such a pity these do not have good microphone, audio track controls or mute shortcuts while costing $400 and the buds being relatively larger in size...


These still do not have track controls!!? Wth are they doing! That to me is a deal break as I use those controls often. I was very close to getting them but..... Freaking track controls... Makes zero sense


----------



## Ceeluh7

ryuflatron said:


> I returned my B&O EQ today. It was fun while it lasted. Love its design, Wireless is convenient and ANC is handful but when they combine with the SQ, it doesn’t worth $400 USD. Maybe wait for a couple more years for better options.


Ya 400 is obnoxious. There's no way they sound 400 good


----------



## The Gig

Thinking I might hit buy on this combo...


----------



## erockg (Nov 13, 2021)

VICosPhi said:


> B&O sent me replacement finally and after being content with Technics AZ60, listened to the EQ again and wow the rich mids, instrument separation, forward sounding guitar chords accuracy is simply the best I have heard in TWS world. Such a pity these do not have good microphone, audio track controls or mute shortcuts while costing $400 and the buds being relatively larger in size...


You're killing me.  Those EQ are one of my all time favorites.  I let them go because of driver flex (popping sound) on some tracks.  I totally agree with you, they do sound wonderful.  I keep hoping Amazon will have then at 100 off so I can stupidly pull the trigger again.


----------



## VICosPhi (Nov 13, 2021)

erockg said:


> You're killing me.  Those EQ are one of my all time favorites.  I let them go because of drive flex (popping sound) on some tracks.  I totally agree with you, they do sound wonderful.  I keep hoping Amazon will have then at 100 off so I can stupidly pull the trigger again.


Heh.. wait before you pull the trigger. However, once you hear the EQs, everything else sounds tinny/inferior in comparison. I actually get joy from experiencing the music on these. MTW2 were the others that I actually felt the music on. Technics AZ60 sound good but lack of soundstage, instrument separation and sub bass extension these are very good but don't get that joy factor. On these replacement EQs, I upgraded the firmware and hoped these replacements will at least not have the same issues I had with right side bud not playing music, laggy touch controls etc.

Guess what? The issues still persist. When I take these out from the case there is a 60/40 chance right bud won't play music. Reluctantly so, but I am gonna just return these now. I'd have kept these even with the terrible mic, track controls etc. but at the minimum these need to play the darn music as they do it better than anything else out there. The mids on these are BETTER than over ear H95 that I own as well...

I think B&O need to sort these issues via firmware update and then we suckers will buy these back LOL



Ceeluh7 said:


> These still do not have track controls!!? Wth are they doing! That to me is a deal break as I use those controls often. I was very close to getting them but..... Freaking track controls... Makes zero sense


The funny thing is that I own over ear H95 and those have track controls so no idea why B&O thought it's fine to exclude this feature on their flagship TWS...


----------



## ryuflatron (Nov 13, 2021)

erockg said:


> You're killing me.  Those EQ are one of my all time favorites.  I let them go because of drive flex (popping sound) on some tracks.  I totally agree with you, they do sound wonderful.  I keep hoping Amazon will have then at 100 off so I can stupidly pull the trigger again.


I definitely buy them again if they get $100+ off. They look so nice. I had popping sound issue too but it was not too noticeable. I returned them because I spent too much on wired IEM, and a portable bluetooth DAC/ AMPs like Fiio BTR5 they are small enough to put everything in my front pocket and I don’t need to plug the IEM into my phone. It is not convenient as TWS and lack of ANC but SQ is so much better.



VICosPhi said:


> B&O sent me replacement finally and after being content with Technics AZ60, listened to the EQ again and wow the rich mids, instrument separation, forward sounding guitar chords accuracy is simply the best I have heard in TWS world. Such a pity these do not have good microphone, audio track controls or mute shortcuts while costing $400 and the buds being relatively larger in size...





Ceeluh7 said:


> Ya 400 is obnoxious. There's no way they sound 400 good


Yes. It sounds ok but for me, it lacks of imaging, details what I expect from $400. Of course, ANC and battery life is good but it is not enough to become a keeper.


----------



## erockg

VICosPhi said:


> Heh.. wait before you pull the trigger. However, once you hear the EQs, everything else sounds tinny/inferior in comparison. I actually get joy from experiencing the music on these. Upgraded the firmware and hoped these replacements will at least not have the same issues I had with right side bud not playing music, laggy touch controls etc.
> 
> Guess what? The issues still persist. When I take these out from the case there is a 60/40 chance right bud won't play music. Reluctantly so, but I am gonna just return these now. I'd have kept these even with the terrible mic, track controls etc. but at the minimum these need to play the darn music as they do it better than anything else out there. The mids on these are BETTER than over ear H95 that I own as well...
> 
> ...


Ugh, that's awful.  I had three different pairs myself.  Major QC issues.  Such a shame because I loved the sound they put out.


----------



## ryuflatron

erockg said:


> Ugh, that's awful.  I had three different pairs myself.  Major QC issues.  Such a shame because I loved the sound they put out.


I got two pairs. Both gave me bad experience about B&O’s QC.


----------



## Ceeluh7

VICosPhi said:


> Heh.. wait before you pull the trigger. However, once you hear the EQs, everything else sounds tinny/inferior in comparison. I actually get joy from experiencing the music on these. MTW2 were the others that I actually felt the music on. Technics AZ60 sound good but lack of soundstage, instrument separation and sub bass extension these are very good but don't get that joy factor. On these replacement EQs, I upgraded the firmware and hoped these replacements will at least not have the same issues I had with right side bud not playing music, laggy touch controls etc.
> 
> Guess what? The issues still persist. When I take these out from the case there is a 60/40 chance right bud won't play music. Reluctantly so, but I am gonna just return these now. I'd have kept these even with the terrible mic, track controls etc. but at the minimum these need to play the darn music as they do it better than anything else out there. The mids on these are BETTER than over ear H95 that I own as well...
> 
> ...


And why no update to add track controls? So weird. The simplest of functions, and it isn't as though the people have not raised this question. Bizarre.... $400 bucks


----------



## nekonhime

Ceeluh7 said:


> And why no update to add track controls? So weird. The simplest of functions, and it isn't as though the people have not raised this question. Bizarre.... $400 bucks


I will just wait until they are 150-200 then lol


----------



## dweaver

Ok busy trying to sell of a bunch of TWS and I bought the WF-C500 just because I was curious how it sounded...

Darn "hobby" is a pain... LOL

Anyway will have to do comparisons but these do sound pretty good out of the box. From memory they are not quite as dark as the WF-1000XM3 and are similar to the WF-X700 but not quite as bass oriented.

Fit wise these are pretty comfy which is good because they use physical buttons that you push in and the right button is a bit on the stiff side. 

Definitely a good option for someone on a budget who wants to try Sony and wants sound quality over features.


----------



## Bobbetybob

Wow I just looked up the controls on the EQ, everything is just double taps? That's bizarre. I don't understand why TWS makers don't just follow the same schemes everyone else uses. With single/double/triple/press and hold on both sides you've got 8 different inputs which easily covers play/pause, skip tracks, volume controls and assistant/ANC.

I get especially annoyed when they mirror both sides so you can use all the controls with only one bud in. So, normal listeners, which is most people, most of the time, should have to sacrifice control for people with a niche use case? Ridiculous.


----------



## dweaver (Nov 14, 2021)

OK interesting results comparing Code Cool by Patricia Barber between the WF1000XM3, WFX700, WFC500.

The bassline was heaviest ever so slightly on the C500, lightest on the X700 and most punchy on the 1000XM3.

Vocals were the brightest on the X700 boardering on being sibilant. The most balanced on the C500 and slightly dark and lacking energy on the 1000XM3. Cymbals were similar with the X700 crossing the line into being sibilant.

With this type Jazz the C500 falls nicely between the darker 1000XM3 and slightly shouty X700.

Switched to Miles Davis Sketches of Spain and was similarly impressed. Great little IEM for Jazz where the added sparkle and detail brings the music to life.


----------



## Con Par (Nov 14, 2021)

Guys im looking for some good earbud style to buy to use with my pc
im interesting in
Xiaomi Redmi buds 3 
SOUNDPEATS TrueAir2

Does anyone have tried any of those?
Do you have any sygestions under 50$?

*I already have airpods 2 2019


----------



## Aevum

Are those the Echos ?


----------



## jant71 (Nov 14, 2021)

dweaver said:


> Ok busy trying to sell of a bunch of TWS and I bought the WF-C500 just because I was curious how it sounded...
> 
> Darn "hobby" is a pain... LOL
> 
> ...


Again, I would have steered you to the Jabra...

Of course he doesn't account for the Jabra having aptX and says the Sony doesn't have sidetone. The Jabra have aptX and the Sony do have sidetone and Sony have now lowered the price so they are the same price now. Even dropped to $80, no ambient is not cool for the Sony. I always get info on the Japanese stuff and am a Sony fan and JVC fan and AT fan going back but I'll tell you when Sony needs to do more or when JVC needs to get their control scheme better or whatever. 

Surprised he thought the Jabra sounded wider. Having the Nuarl and AT along with the Jabra that wasn't happening. Those two are soundstage champs and all around bigger in all directions even though the Jabra has a stage no one would complain about. Compared to many even up to $150 they do well in stage.


----------



## dweaver (Nov 14, 2021)

I thought about trying the Jabra Elite 3 since it was only $10 more. It's funny but they are one of the only brand's I have never tried.

At full retail the Jabra is definitely the better value though. I just managed to get the C500 for $89.


----------



## jant71

dweaver said:


> I thought about trying the Jabra Elite 3 since it was only $10 more. It's funny but they are one of the only brand's I have never tried.
> 
> At full retail the Jabra is definitely the better value though. I just managed to get the C500 for $89.


Is that CA? In the US, Elite 3 was always was $80 and the Sony was $100 but dropped real fast this time to $80. 

My first time trying a Jabra as well esp. after early reports of them being the best sounding one yet except those who argued about liking more bass in the older versions. I wanted the aptX(for when using my Cowon D3 that only does SBC and aptX) and less bass so I was sold.


----------



## dweaver (Nov 14, 2021)

I have been a Sony fan for a long time but have to be honest and say I have struggled with alot of their headphones over the past few years as they have gone to such a dark subdued sound signature. They just lose to much of the emotion of the music. I currently own the WH-1000XM3 and WF-1000XM3 and find they are lacking in detail. I also own the WH-910N which I actually prefer for signature over the 1000XM3 and I also had bought the WF-X700 which surprising was not as bassy as the WF-1000XM3 going almost to the other side of the scale and getting a bit sibilant.

Yesterday I bought the WF-C500 and have to say I am very happy with them sonically. This is the first Sony that has found the sweet spot regarding signature at least for me. These just sound more satisfying with big bass, but also decent edge to vocals and instruments without pushing into being too harsh. These also have very good 3D imaging.

They make the decision to sell off both 1000XM3's very easy as I have other ANC options when needed and then these when I want my Sony fix.

Some might find these to edgy but for me they present the music more faithfully. Genres I have tried so far are Classic, Celtic, New Age, Jazz, Hard Rock, Psychodelic Rock, Folk.


----------



## dweaver

jant71 said:


> Is that CA? In the US, Elite 3 was always was $80 and the Sony was $100 but dropped real fast this time to $80.
> 
> My first time trying a Jabra as well esp. after early reports of them being the best sounding one yet except those who argued about liking more bass in the older versions. I wanted the aptX(for when using my Cowon D3 that only does SBC and aptX) and less bass so I was sold.


I paid $89CAD, which was $10 cheaper than most retailers who had them on sale for $99CAD.


----------



## sebek

I am looking for a total wireless iem, budget I would say no more than 200 €.

Beyond the technicalities, the fundamental thing for me is the timbre and the naturalness.

Sennheiser HD6 for reference.


----------



## dweaver

The Sennheiser MTW2 will give you that Sennheiser sound, for less money the new CX Plus will give you a very similar signature with close to the same features.


----------



## quick1

dweaver said:


> The Sennheiser MTW2 will give you that Sennheiser sound,


I've never had a pair, what is the Sennheiser sound?


----------



## senorbroom

I frustratingly went for a cycle and my Sennheiser CX case must've slipped out of my pocket. I now have a pair of perfectly functioning 3 month old pair of earphones with no way to charge them. I've contacted Sennheiser and they don't sell the case separately or provide replacements. I'll now probably just wait for the international release of the Beats Fit Pros as I'm so deeply entrenched in the Apple ecosystem that I'm willing to give up sound quality for convenience and microphone quality.


----------



## Ceeluh7

senorbroom said:


> I frustratingly went for a cycle and my Sennheiser CX case must've slipped out of my pocket. I now have a pair of perfectly functioning 3 month old pair of earphones with no way to charge them. I've contacted Sennheiser and they don't sell the case separately or provide replacements. I'll now probably just wait for the international release of the Beats Fit Pros as I'm so deeply entrenched in the Apple ecosystem that I'm willing to give up sound quality for convenience and microphone quality.


You could try eBay, at times people sell the cases alone


----------



## VICosPhi

senorbroom said:


> I frustratingly went for a cycle and my Sennheiser CX case must've slipped out of my pocket. I now have a pair of perfectly functioning 3 month old pair of earphones with no way to charge them. I've contacted Sennheiser and they don't sell the case separately or provide replacements. I'll now probably just wait for the international release of the Beats Fit Pros as I'm so deeply entrenched in the Apple ecosystem that I'm willing to give up sound quality for convenience and microphone quality.


Not sure if you can order it from their German site where they sell the case only as a replacement part:
https://en-de.sennheiser.com/charging-case-cx-400bt


----------



## Tommy C

VICosPhi said:


> Not sure if you can order it from their German site where they sell the case only as a replacement part:
> https://en-de.sennheiser.com/charging-case-cx-400bt



Dang. That's more than what I paid for the CX 400BT.  
Also, it's for the CX 400BT not for the CX and as far as I know they are not identical nor compatible.


----------



## dweaver

quick1 said:


> I've never had a pair, what is the Sennheiser sound?


Without hearing it, it hard to fully describe. In the case of my response I mentioned it because Sebek mentioned the HD6 as his reference for sound.

The general Sennheiser sound in my usage has a mid-bass hump that often colors The midrange making the midrange warmer. With a treble that presents cymbals with a bit more sharpness that I would describe as tinny versus brassy. They are generally energetic and detailed but due to the mid-bass hump are not as good with music that needs a lot of sub-bass.


----------



## Bhelpoori

I picked up the L3Pros recently and spent a while on a 'plane with them testing the ANC, comparing them to the AirPods Max which (to me) is the best ANC out there right now. Whilst you'd expect the AirPods Max to be better, which is especially true without music, the L3Pros were sufficient with music but not top relative to other ANC TWS I've tried. Neither were good enough to blot out a 777 on take off and climb though so there's still some way to go in ANC quality...

I've been really pleasantly surprised with the sound and comfort of the L3Pros listening to music after HearID. They are easily the best of my small collection (Jabra 85, AirPod Pro, Edifiers etc) of TWS and better than some of my ANC over ears too. 

They do have two annoyances though:
1. Putting the 'phones in the case is a bit fiddly and sometimes the left bud doesn't make contact/remains on
2. With my big ears, sometimes when I lean on something e.g. 'plane window, my ear hits the touch control and does some random function

A few things that I miss from other TWS:
1. Priority when on 2 connections to drop the 2nd connection when on a phone call/Zoom for better quality and to stop interruptions (Jabra)
2. Mute the microphone (Jabra)
3. Transparent mode that is decent (AirPods Pro). L3Pro has it but it needs significant improvement...it is just about OK for a short sentence but not to have it on all the time.


----------



## Nito8

Hi everyone,(sorry for my English)
I currently own the Oppo Enco X, I wanted to get another set of tws. 
What do you recommend for SQ between:
- Liberty 3 pro
- Technics AZ60
- Melomania Touch

Thanks 😉


----------



## Ceeluh7

Nito8 said:


> Hi everyone,(sorry for my English)
> I currently own the Oppo Enco X, I wanted to get another set of tws.
> What do you recommend for SQ between:
> - Liberty 3 pro
> ...


They are all nice sounding sets. If I had my pick I would go with the AZ60's. I have all 3 and I really enjoy them all. Many people have stated issues with the Touch, however I have never had an issue with them so keep that in mind. Honestly if more features are also something you are needing then the LP3 and AZ60 are the two you want to look at. SQ wise, imo these all perform nicely and they all have bright spots which better the other two. Again I do own them all and if someone told me I had to get rid of two of them then I would keep the AZ60


----------



## Nito8

Ceeluh7 said:


> Sono tutti set dal suono piacevole. Se potessi scegliere, sceglierei le AZ60. Li ho tutti e 3 e mi piacciono davvero tutti. Molte persone hanno dichiarato problemi con il Touch, tuttavia non ho mai avuto problemi con loro, quindi tienilo a mente. Onestamente, se hai bisogno di più funzionalità, allora LP3 e AZ60 sono i due che vuoi guardare. SQ saggio, imo che si comportano tutti bene e hanno tutti punti luminosi che migliorano gli altri due. Anche in questo caso li possiedo tutti e se qualcuno mi dicesse che dovevo sbarazzarmene di due, terrei l'AZ60


Thank you very much for the immediate reply 😀


----------



## CocaCola15 (Nov 15, 2021)

Of interest re Samsung TW.

https://www.androidcentral.com/samsung-galaxy-buds-pro-ear-infections


----------



## quick1 (Nov 15, 2021)

I received both the ePro TWS Series TW00 and the AZLA SednaEarfit Crystal's (that are meant for a standard TWS like the Galaxy Buds 2, Buds, Buds+) yesterday.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/cart/view.html?ref_=nav_cart
I gave them both a try against the Crystal's that are meant for the G Buds Pro (deeper insertion depth) and the Final Type E's (for standard TWS) that have the bass I liked but kind of fell short in other regards.

First up were the Crystal's. When on the nozzle these things are much shorter with maybe a 1/16 inch sticking above the nozzle. They also have a lot smaller opening to the ear being ever so slightly bigger than the nozzle diameter.
Ok, those are better, they have further opened up the soundstage and separation. I don't think I've lost any bass, but I sure didn't gain any either. The mids and higher frequencies don't seem to have dropped off any, they just have more air. Recordings that were meant to sound closer to live with a little echo (Aerosmith- Movin' Out, Round And Round) are clearly better. More of a performance rather than a wall of sound being thrown at you. The downside, I might have lost a little isolation due to them not being inserted as deep into the ear. I'm good with the tradeoff.

 ePro TWS Series TW00. Comparing them to the Crystals (meant for standard TWS), they have more material above the nozzle and have very close to, if no the same inner diameter. Looking at both versions of the Crystals then comparing lengths when mounted, the ePro TWS Series were about a happy medium between the two. In sound they seemed to match the Crystal's Bass but they fell short of the open performance and and tone.

Clearly I'm liking what I hear from the shorter Crystal's meant for standard TWS sets. I'm still waiting on the Acoustune AET07 from MTM audio but it's going to be tough to beat this version of Crystal's. What more could I want?? Maybe get back a little more isolation and a deeper bass without stepping on the other frequencies? Other than that I think I might be at the limit of what these Devialet Gemini's can produce without using different equipment or mods, but one never knows...


----------



## Darkestred

Bhelpoori said:


> I picked up the L3Pros recently and spent a while on a 'plane with them testing the ANC, comparing them to the AirPods Max which (to me) is the best ANC out there right now. Whilst you'd expect the AirPods Max to be better, which is especially true without music, the L3Pros were sufficient with music but not top relative to other ANC TWS I've tried. Neither were good enough to blot out a 777 on take off and climb though so there's still some way to go in ANC quality...
> 
> I've been really pleasantly surprised with the sound and comfort of the L3Pros listening to music after HearID. They are easily the best of my small collection (Jabra 85, AirPod Pro, Edifiers etc) of TWS and better than some of my ANC over ears too.
> 
> ...


On pt #1: Working out with the lp3 right now...left ear bud low...what?!?!

The 3 is a nice step up from the 2.  Still that overblown treble but im not critically listening to tws.  These deliver the fun factor and thats A-OK in my book.


----------



## Bhelpoori

Darkestred said:


> On pt #1: Working out with the lp3 right now...left ear bud low...what?!?!
> 
> The 3 is a nice step up from the 2.  Still that overblown treble but im not critically listening to tws.  These deliver the fun factor and thats A-OK in my book.


I've had this a couple of times with the lp3 where the left headphone hadn't mated with the contacts in the case properly, or moved off the contacts whilst in my pocket, or I didn't put the 'phone in the case properly (no clue which one). The 'phone therefore either turned on or never turned off, connected and ended up low battery. The right one was 100%. I haven't had that happen again for a few days but if it happens a few more times then it is RMA time.


----------



## Ceeluh7

CocaCola15 said:


> Of interest re Samsung TW.
> 
> https://www.androidcentral.com/samsung-galaxy-buds-pro-ear-infections


What! I have had these for quite awhile and I suppose I am lucky that I haven't had any issues. Great set BTW. Good sound, good anc, I had to tip change but I like em.


----------



## bladefd

quick1 said:


> I received both the ePro TWS Series TW00 and the AZLA SednaEarfit Crystal's (that are meant for a standard TWS like the Galaxy Buds 2, Buds, Buds+) yesterday.
> https://www.amazon.com/gp/cart/view.html?ref_=nav_cart
> I gave them both a try against the Crystal's that are meant for the G Buds Pro (deeper insertion depth) and the Final Type E's (for standard TWS) that have the bass I liked but kind of fell short in other regards.
> 
> ...


What tips are your favorite so far?


----------



## quick1

bladefd said:


> What tips are your favorite so far?


AZLA SednaEarfit Crystal


----------



## VICosPhi

Anyone tried the Grell audio TWS yet? Early feedback on their NAR noise reduction is not very good(it doesn't make much difference). Curious about sound quality though. These seem pretty large in size and by the looks of it, the core seems like CLEER TWS

Still using Technics AZ60 are very good, but I miss the sub bass and soundstage of LP3 and instrument separation of the B&O EQ. Guess you can't have it all...


----------



## Tommy C (Nov 15, 2021)

VICosPhi said:


> Anyone tried the Grell audio TWS yet? Early feedback on their NAR noise reduction is not very good(it doesn't make much difference). Curious about sound quality though. These seem pretty large in size and by the looks of it, the core seems like CLEER TWS
> 
> Still using Technics AZ60 are very good, but I miss the sub bass and soundstage of LP3 and instrument separation of the B&O EQ. Guess you can't have it all...



For me I kind of gave up on having 1 set of TWS that will do everything.
I mainly use the 1More Comfobuds Pro for phone calls, meetings, music during the day. They are not technically the best but they do everything very well.
I use the Sennheiser CX 400BT strictly for music when I want to chill with a drink and listen to music. I can easily toggle connections from the app so it’s great when I’m moving from the phone to iPad to my PC and such.
The Fiil T1XS is when out and about and I don’t need ANC but their passive noise canceling is superb so don’t miss that. They are small and sound great too.
The Jabra Elite Sport is strictly for phone calls and working out since they Sport app is the best for my needs.


----------



## CocaCola15

Ceeluh7 said:


> What! I have had these for quite awhile and I suppose I am lucky that I haven't had any issues. Great set BTW. Good sound, good anc, I had to tip change but I like em.


I know, right? I am sure it's an outlier thing, but it is strange.


----------



## scottsays

I have the Falcon Pro-- not quite ready to buy this , Maybe at some point get a used one down the line---

https://headfonics.com/noble-audio-fokus-pro-review/


----------



## VICosPhi

Tommy C said:


> For me I kind of gave up on having 1 set of TWS that will do everything.
> I mainly use the 1More Comfobuds Pro for phone calls, meetings, music during the day. They are not technically the best but they do everything very well.
> I use the Sennheiser CX 400BT strictly for music when I want to chill with a drink and listen to music. I can easily toggle connections from the app so it’s great when I’m moving from the phone to iPad to my PC and such.
> The Fiil T1XS is when out and about and I don’t need ANC but their passive noise canceling is superb so don’t miss that. They are small and sound great too.
> The Jabra Elite Sport is strictly for phone calls and working out since they Sport app is the best for my needs.


That's a nice setup. I use over ears H95 when at home and AZ60 when out and about. Hoping MTW3 will come out soon to accompany with a glass of wine


----------



## chinmie

Tommy C said:


> For me I kind of gave up on having 1 set of TWS that will do everything.



same. that's also my approach on regular wired IEMs/earbuds/headphones. better to have several specialized ones that one jack of all trades


----------



## adnhussn

VICosPhi said:


> That's a nice setup. I use over ears H95 when at home and AZ60 when out and about. Hoping MTW3 will come out soon to accompany with a glass of wine


Same exact setup here.


----------



## Tommy C (Nov 16, 2021)

chinmie said:


> same. that's also my approach on regular wired IEMs/earbuds/headphones. better to have several specialized ones that one jack of all trades



Yeah, I was trying to go with a leaner setup but that's what I came up with. Especially after trying a few TWS that were highly regarded for sound but they just didn't do it for me.

In general, sound is highly subjective and even more so in TWS because of fit, features and your own use case IMO.
For me, I enjoy some mid-tier TWS if their sound is right. I can live with some drawbacks but some things are very important to me.

I think the real eye-opener was with the CA MT. Most people seem to love their sound but it just wasn't for me. On top of all the issues with the app and the touch control I just couldn't get them to sound right for my ears and I think this is also when I realized my ears aren't young anymore and I'm looking for a more mature sound with no boomy bass, sharp, over sparkly highs and recessed mids.


----------



## dweaver

CocaCola15 said:


> Of interest re Samsung TW.
> 
> https://www.androidcentral.com/samsung-galaxy-buds-pro-ear-infections


I guess I have been lucky as well. No issues for me either. I also use different tips, but that articles stated he had tried other tips so they are likely not the culprit.

I suspect some metal allergy or something in the plastic. Glad I never had that happen to me though that would be horrible.


----------



## Nick24JJ

VICosPhi said:


> Anyone tried the Grell audio TWS yet? Early feedback on their NAR noise reduction is not very good(it doesn't make much difference). Curious about sound quality though. These seem pretty large in size and by the looks of it, the core seems like CLEER TWS
> 
> Still using Technics AZ60 are very good, but I miss the sub bass and soundstage of LP3 and instrument separation of the B&O EQ. Guess you can't have it all...





VICosPhi said:


> Anyone tried the Grell audio TWS yet? Early feedback on their NAR noise reduction is not very good(it doesn't make much difference). Curious about sound quality though. These seem pretty large in size and by the looks of it, the core seems like CLEER TWS
> 
> Still using Technics AZ60 are very good, but I miss the sub bass and soundstage of LP3 and instrument separation of the B&O EQ. Guess you can't have it all...


I am in the exact same situation as you! I have returned my Melomania 1+ , I still have the Melomania 1, and I am currently using the AZ60. They are nice but I would like a better sound quality. I am hoping for the Grell audio TWS and I will give a fair chance to the FiiO UTWS5, when it will become available on Amazon UK. But I seriously doubt that it will be capable of driving my TRI I3 😞


----------



## Tommy C

Nick24JJ said:


> I am in the exact same situation as you! I have returned my Melomania 1+ , I still have the Melomania 1, and I am currently using the AZ60. They are nice but I would like a better sound quality. I am hoping for the Grell audio TWS and I will give a fair chance to the FiiO UTWS5, when it will become available on Amazon UK. But I seriously doubt that it will be capable of driving my TRI I3 😞



What do you feel the AZ60 are lacking?
I think for sound quality they _should _be up there with the best as they are latest generation and Technics was going for sound quality on top of other features.


----------



## jant71 (Nov 16, 2021)

Nick24JJ said:


> I am in the exact same situation as you! I have returned my Melomania 1+ , I still have the Melomania 1, and I am currently using the AZ60. They are nice but I would like a better sound quality. I am hoping for the Grell audio TWS and I will give a fair chance to the FiiO UTWS5, when it will become available on Amazon UK. But I seriously doubt that it will be capable of driving my TRI I3 😞


Yeah, the Grell thing makes people have high hopes but doubt, like Tommy C talks of, these will sound better than the AZ60. One early report had them sounding close to the existing MTW2 so in the pack among the very good sounding ones but they won't be out in front.

A few seem to hold the Gemini out in front and then there is a whole bunch lumped together real good but close and you have to pick your poison of which sig/features you may like. Maybe the FoKus is a little ahead as well but not enough reports on that.

You can get better SQ the other way with the adapters but yes it can be sub par if unable to drive. Are you married to the I3?? No offense to them but you could do even better and easier to drive to work with the adapters.


----------



## Salmoneus

Apologies in advance for not reading through 2627 pages of posts before posting here...my headphone journey has run the gamut, beginning with SR325's about 20 years ago, then some Shure e2c's for travel, then some other IEM brand. Then, about 6 years ago, I was in a position to splurge and got my hands on some Fostex TH900's. Admittedly, I missed some of the Grado clarity, but the Fostex were clearly a step above.

But now, again, I found myself needing something for travel, which brought me to the Jabra Elite 85t's. These little guys may not be the best as far as driver specs, but I am absolutely sold on the value of personalized EQ due to them. I used to be in the camp of believing that a "flat" response was audio nirvana, but then I realized that that was near impossible to attain, since the studio engineers were the only people with access to the pure, unadulterated mix, the best I could do was attempt to replicate what they were mixing in the booth (be it with Sony, Audiotechnica, whatever). The Jabra's were letting me hear balance and detail in a way that none of the previously mentioned headphones did.

Moreover, human hearing apparatus isn't flat, either: High frequency response generally degrades with age, and low frequency response is just generally weak. So, I guess what I'm saying is, where does the headphone game go from here? Do others generally feel the same about personally-EQ'ed headphones, and if not, what are the other options?


----------



## Nick24JJ (Nov 16, 2021)

Tommy C said:


> What do you feel the AZ60 are lacking?
> I think for sound quality they _should _be up there with the best as they are latest generation and Technics was going for sound quality on top of other features.


The AZ60 is a very good pair, in overall. The quality of my phonecalls, for example, is much better than with the Melomania 1 or the M1+
But when it comes to the comparison between them and my Qudelix 5K with my TRI I3, plus I'm using a very nice cable from TRI, there can be no comparison! My TRI I3 sound much (much) better in all frequencies, they can sound much louder, the soundstage is unbelievable... They are on another level, altogether. Now, I am aware of this, but I am just replying to your question. This is why I am still searching for something better than the AZ60, fully wireless, no DAC/AMP


----------



## Nick24JJ

jant71 said:


> Yeah, the Grell thing makes people have high hopes but doubt, like Tommy C talks of, these will sound better than the AZ60. One early report had them sounding close to the existing MTW2 so in the pack among the very good sounding ones but they won't be out in front.
> 
> A few seem to hold the Gemini out in front and then there is a whole bunch lumped together real good but close and you have to pick your poison of which sig/features you may like. Maybe the FoKus is a little ahead as well but not enough reports on that.
> 
> You can get better SQ the other way with the adapters but yes it can be sub par if unable to drive.* Are you married to the I3?? No offense to them but you could do even better and easier to drive to work with the adapters.*


Well, I will give the Grell a fair chance, as I will do with the FiiO UTWS5

Besides that, I do not understand what you mean... Married? No. They just happen to be the best IEMs I've ever heard! And, I consider myself lucky that they were the first pair I ever got! With the Qudelix 5K it was different. I had to purchase, use and try, various FiiO players, like the M9, the M7, the M3K which I still own, until I reached to my Qudelix.

And, I do not drive to work. I walk to work. And, it is not convenient to walk around with the cable, at least for me.


----------



## jant71

Nick24JJ said:


> Well, I will give the Grell a fair chance, as I will do with the FiiO UTWS5
> 
> Besides that, I do not understand what you mean... Married? No. They just happen to be the best IEMs I've ever heard! And, I consider myself lucky that they were the first pair I ever got! With the Qudelix 5K it was different. I had to purchase, use and try, various FiiO players, like the M9, the M7, the M3K which I still own, until I reached to my Qudelix.
> 
> And, I do not drive to work. I walk to work. And, it is not convenient to walk around with the cable, at least for me.


Exactly what I mean. You are kinda married to them. The first pair, the best, and are special to you so probably not open to trying something else at this point. What about how you get to work or about cables?? If you are going TWS or TWS adapters there is no cable.


----------



## Ceeluh7

Nick24JJ said:


> The AZ60 are a very good pair, in overall. They quality of my phonecalls, for example, is much better than with the Melomania 1 or the M1+
> But when it comes the comparison between them and my Qudelix 5K with my TRI I3, plus I'm using a very nice cable from TRI, there can be no comparison! My TRI I3 sounds much (much) better in all frequencies, they can sound much louder, the soundstage is unbelievable... They are on another level, altogether. Now, I am aware of this, but I am just replying to your question. This is why I am still searching for something better than the AZ60, fully wireless, no DAC/AMP


I have the Qudelix as well and you are right, no comparison. I don't think thier will be a tws which can compete with that setup for a very long time if ever


----------



## Tommy C

Nick24JJ said:


> The AZ60 are a very good pair, in overall. They quality of my phonecalls, for example, is much better than with the Melomania 1 or the M1+
> But when it comes the comparison between them and my Qudelix 5K with my TRI I3, plus I'm using a very nice cable from TRI, there can be no comparison! My TRI I3 sounds much (much) better in all frequencies, they can sound much louder, the soundstage is unbelievable... They are on another level, altogether. Now, I am aware of this, but I am just replying to your question. This is why I am still searching for something better than the AZ60, fully wireless, no DAC/AMP



The bitter truth is that if you compare wired IEMs to TWS you're going to be disappointed _every-single-time_, but you already know that.
I have been listening to mostly TWS for the last few years with headphones and IEMs every once in a while.
A couple of months ago I pulled the UE900 out of the drawer and boy, they obviously destroy all the TWS that I currently own or demoed.
I had the Liberty 2 Pro Plus back then and was able to adjust them with the EQ to sound very similar to the UE900 but when it came to soundstage and imagining it was no contest, and the UE900 was like top of the line flagship approx. 10 years ago?  And they weren't even that expensive back then.
This shows how big the gap is as I don't think that even a TOTL TWS can compete with good mid-tier IEMs.

A different path that you may want to explore is the Shure TW2 with better IEMs than than the stock Aonic 215. Maybe the SE535 or SE425 or the Aonic 3 or 4 if you don't want to break the bank

Disclaimer: I don't have any experience with the Shure setup and this is just based on reviews that I have been reading online and here by erockg who has them.


----------



## Nick24JJ

Tommy C said:


> The bitter truth is that if you compare wired IEMs to TWS you're going to be disappointed _every-single-time_, but you already know that.
> I have been listening to mostly TWS for the last few years with headphones and IEMs every once in a while.
> A couple of months ago I pulled the UE900 out of the drawer and boy, they obviously destroy all the TWS that I currently own or demoed.
> I had the Liberty 2 Pro Plus back then and was able to adjust them with the EQ to sound very similar to the UE900 but when it came to soundstage and imagining it was no contest, and the UE900 was like top of the line flagship approx. 10 years ago?  And they weren't even that expensive back then.
> ...


Thanks for your reply and suggestion


----------



## Phaethon

Hello everyone - I’ve been comparing my way through all the top-tier TWS and have had the following observations of what my ears do and don’t like:
Bose - oh so comfortable; oh what mush for sound. As undifferentiated and comforting as a bowl of mashed potatoes. Went back. 
Sony xm4 - great all-purpose. Fantastic features and a good sound after some EQing to tame the dark tone. Kept. 
MW08 - never got a comfortable fit in my ears. Great sound but I never felt comfortable enough to relax into the sound. And no EQ?? Returned. 
T5ii ANC - I really wanted to like these but made my ears hurt painfully. Tried returning them but Amazon rep said “dispose of them.” They are sitting in my desk. 
B&O EQ - I kept returning to these. Connectivity with my iPhone and that bizarre case interior that made putting the buds away take ten minutes got them returned. Kinda pricey for that nonsense. 
PI7 - blew me away on first listen with its instrumentation separation and clean sound. I could hear every single instrument and they were all missing something. It was like technique without soul. Cold as ice. Practically feature free too and was returned. 

And then… the dawn came and sunlight filled my ears. I got the Shure Aonic Free. Separation, snappy bass, crisp but not painfully sibilant highs, rock-solid mids. I listen to tons of acid jazz, funk, funk jazz, and lots of 70s and 80s music. These handle all that plus my baroque classical and occasional Bowie, Kraftwerk, and their ilk. Yummy. 
And yet it’s not enough. That led me to Shure TW Gen 2 adapters and a pair of Aonic 5s to go with them. Sublime. I’m wearing them right now as I write this… and tomorrow… I’ll receive my Dragonfly Carbon to fix and elevate the Apple Music streaming from my phone. 
To quote David Byrne - “My god! What have I done?!”


----------



## Phaethon (Nov 16, 2021)

Dragonfly Cobalt that is. To explore the Aonic 5s with wires.


----------



## Cevisi

Hi got the galaxy buds 2 lately. Im pretty happy with them for what they are. Was thinking about some upgrade tips and was looking for the azla crystals. Does someone have any experience with this combo? Are rhere sonic changes and is the fit better ? Are there any better options ?


----------



## Tommy C

Caipirina said:


> Nice, I also got the blue ones, but I am still wondering if all blue are the 22 preset Aurora blue.
> Also managed to get the Soundpeats H1 for 39.07$ … somehow I recall them being over 80$ usually?
> Was contemplating the Edifier Neobuds but for weird reasons the official edifier store won’t ship THAT model to Japan! Other stores do but charge more
> And for some strange reasons the liberty 3 pro are quite expensive on AliExpress …



To the best of my knowledge the Aurora blue is the only blue in their lineup and should have the presets.
Hopefully you got them from a reputable dealer so it's not a Chinese clone.


----------



## scottsays

Just got the Tanchjim Echo TWS in----very impressive, They are very small and lightweight, super comfortable and have a very strong, rich full sound.
Also received Moondrop Sparks in the mail today ( I know wth? ) Amazon had them for 15% off and I had $ 53 amazon credit on my prime card---so got the Sparks for $ 24--figured what the hell. I like the Sparks comfort and relaxed sound--the Echo is way better sound quality--another level up.
List price on the Echo is $ 99 now and the Sparks is $ 89 usd------I would get the Echo NOW as it may be an introductory price to entice sales-----


----------



## Tommy C

scottsays said:


> Just got the Tanchjim Echo TWS in----very impressive, They are very small and lightweight, super comfortable and have a very strong, rich full sound.
> Also received Moondrop Sparks in the mail today ( I know wth? ) Amazon had them for 15% off and I had $ 53 amazon credit on my prime card---so got the Sparks for $ 24--figured what the hell. I like the Sparks comfort and relaxed sound--the Echo is way better sound quality--another level up.
> List price on the Echo is $ 99 now and the Sparks is $ 89 usd------I would get the Echo NOW as it may be an introductory price to entice sales-----


Is there a Tanchjim app for the Echo?


----------



## scottsays

Tommy C said:


> Is there a Tanchjim app for the Echo?


No not as of yet --hopefully one will come out though.


----------



## Devodonaldson

scottsays said:


> I have the Falcon Pro-- not quite ready to buy this , Maybe at some point get a used one down the line---
> 
> https://headfonics.com/noble-audio-fokus-pro-review/


I have falcon pro as well. I normally pick my Sony xm4 over it due to more musicality to my ears, but I do like the Falcon Pro still. IMO the Fokus Pro beats them both for sure. I'm figuring out purchases for next couple months and then probably going to end up with it, lol. I've purchased galaxy buds pro, xm4, galaxy buds live, and falcon pro all within the last 7 months.


----------



## sebek

I am thinking of buying the Sennheiser MTW2.

They would be my first TWS iems, I have some questions:

- Is the normal 5V 2A smartphone charger suitable for charging?

- Is it compatible with UAPP, Qobuz and Tidal?

- I've read complaints about the volume, what do you think? I also listen to older music recorded at lower volumes, not just modern music.


----------



## Trager

I got the AZ60 a couple weeks ago and my initial impressions were good sound (when EQed) and excellent ANC. The ANC is mostly good, but the places where it breaks down are really rough. Unfortunately, I tried them in wind… and oof, that’s just not great. It’s especially bad with sustained winds — do you know that feeling when you’re driving on the highway and someone opens one window but the others are all closed? That’s what the AZ60 do.



dweaver said:


> See the WF-1000XM4 on sale in Canada for $350. But I am still leaning toward the AZ60. I keep reading reviews where they say the Sony are more musical. But I struggle because I find the 1000XM3 to dark and the XM4 is supposed to be even darker sounding. So how does that translate to more musical?
> 
> Sony holds the edge is features and ANC but aside from that the AZ60 seems to offer what I think would be a better music experience.
> 
> ...



That said, the AZ60 are the first TWS where I can actually listen to music and enjoy it (using the dynamic EQ settings). They’re nowhere close to my favorite wired IEMs, of course (Xelento and Sine i3), but definitely passable and the ANC is really close to good enough to make them my go-to.



erockg said:


> I'm actually going back and forth with the XM4 and AZ60s today.  I prefer the sound of the AZ60.  ANC is great on both.  I've never had good luck with wind and ANC headphones, so I always turn off the ANC.  But we don't have gusty winds here in Los Angeles often.  AZ60 buds are a bit smaller than the XM4.  Sony has a few other features that for me, might sway one who had neither - wireless charging and auto pause when you take the buds out.  Plus a slew of other tech features.  Don't get me wrong, the Technics are great.  It was only a matter of time before Sony and Technics nailed it.  Both of these are great choice, with the AZ60 having an edge for music.  I'm sure the next gen of these will be even better.



The other problem I have with the AZ60 is that I really don’t like their touch targets for control. It’s hard to adjust them at all without stopping the music or causing some other issue. I use my Apple Watch pretty much exclusively for pause/resume/rewind/ff with these because I don’t like the touch interface at all.


----------



## Ceeluh7

Trager said:


> I got the AZ60 a couple weeks ago and my initial impressions were good sound (when EQed) and excellent ANC. The ANC is mostly good, but the places where it breaks down are really rough. Unfortunately, I tried them in wind… and oof, that’s just not great. It’s especially bad with sustained winds — do you know that feeling when you’re driving on the highway and someone opens one window but the others are all closed? That’s what the AZ60 do.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


The AZ60's are a quality set. I can easily pick apart places in the spectrum where these lack but as a whole they are nice. I have battled myself over keeping them or taking them back and for whatever reason I just like them. They re not the best sounding TWS out there but they certainly are way above average and closer to the top 15% out there... In my opinion. They have very nice clarity on simple tracks and get a bit choked up as things get complicated but still they are very nice sounding. They have a slew of features and deliver pretty well. I am on a constant search to shore up all of my methods of listening to music with something in which I absolutely love. Constantly searching out iems/dongle/dacs/amps etc. but tws I have had a harder time finding my perfect set. I suppose that is because there really isnt one in existence yet. Anyways, I'm just agreeing on your take of these... With some much needed eq the AZ60's are a nice set.


----------



## Canabuc

So after 2600 plus pages what is everyone's top 5 ranking for best overall sound

Which for 5 best overall AnC

And is it possible one falls on both lists?


----------



## Tommy C (Nov 18, 2021)

sebek said:


> I am thinking of buying the Sennheiser MTW2.
> 
> They would be my first TWS iems, I have some questions:
> 
> ...



I have the Sennheiser CX 400BT which according to Sennheiser is the MTW 2 minus ANC and Ambient and the other features but has eq and multiple connections (not multipoint though) and honestly do find them weak in the volume department. I need them to be at 85%-90% to feel like they got enough oomph while I'm always around 60%-75% with other sets of TWS.
Is it a deal breaker? Not to me, as I don't like to blast my ears but I wish they had a little more headroom.


----------



## BooleanBones

Canabuc said:


> So after 2600 plus pages what is everyone's top 5 ranking for best overall sound
> 
> Which for 5 best overall AnC
> 
> And is it possible one falls on both lists?


It's a tough answer I think as those two categories are going to have a bunch of disclaimers with them that would probably need some clarification. I will throw my number 1 for each that I have tried out, but definitely don't recommend you go buy based on the rankings without understanding the disclaimers listed in the previous 2600 pages 

My number 1 for SQ is the B and O EQ. Plenty of disclaimers on this ranging from driver flex/pop, general QC, and excessive limitations on max volume. If they could get the issues sorted, and maybe drop the price 50-100$, they would have a great product.
My number 1 for ANC is the Sony XM4s. I personally like these as an all around use that sound pretty good with the right tips and EQ settings.


----------



## Tommy C

Canabuc said:


> So after 2600 plus pages what is everyone's top 5 ranking for best overall sound
> 
> Which for 5 best overall AnC
> 
> And is it possible one falls on both lists?



Seems like the Jury is still out... 
My current favorite 1,2 punch are the 1More Comfobuds Pro but not because it's the best in everything it's just happen to align to my taste and tuning the most and the Sennheiser CX 400BT.


----------



## BooleanBones

Tommy C said:


> Seems like the Jury is still out...
> My current favorite 1,2 punch are the 1More Comfobuds Pro but not because it's the best in everything it's just happen to align to my taste and tuning the most and the Sennheiser CX 400BT.


I am thinking I need to take those CXs for a test spin. You guys keep talking about them and the curiosity is killing me


----------



## Tommy C (Nov 17, 2021)

BooleanBones said:


> I am thinking I need to take those CXs for a test spin. You guys keep talking about them and the curiosity is killing me



For what they are, they are really nice and cheap.
Just keep in mind that the CX 400BT are tuned differently than the CX as the latter is the newer model and they went with more bass, less balanced sound and more narrow soundstage.
I hope this link helps.


----------



## darveniza

Just a note for all users, had to take a recent trip and during my rush to travel only had one set of TWS units with me, within 3 days of the trip I have been using the TWS for calls, music,etc. Started to experience itching, etc and replaced tips, etc. My right ear started to experience all issues of itching , oozing,etc . The Galaxy Buds Pro were the ones that I had for the trip. Just arrived home from travel and trying to make an appointment for doctor as this is an allergic reaction but may become an infection due to the oozing. It is evident that something really is going on.

As I have an array of TWS, never actually use these for whole days because I vary them depending what I am doing. So in thinking about it I have never had the Galaxy Pro's for more than 1hr at a time and that could be the reason why in the past never had any reaction.

The whole process matched some of the information out there, itch starts, stop using and itching goes away. You start using and the itching comes back again and if you dont stop something happens and your ear reacts. I doubt its the tips, this has to be the housing material or the metal in the connectors.

I am floored as I did not really thought would be an issue for me as I use a lot of TWS units, continously use fresh tips or even clean them with a gentle solution that is sold for hearing aids ( tip from another Headfier)

This has bummed me out and I hope I can get to a doctor before I get a full ear infection


----------



## Canabuc

darveniza said:


> Just a note for all users, had to take a recent trip and during my rush to travel only had one set of TWS units with me, within 3 days of the trip I have been using the TWS for calls, music,etc. Started to experience itching, etc and replaced tips, etc. My right ear started to experience all issues of itching , oozing,etc . The Galaxy Buds Pro were the ones that I had for the trip. Just arrived home from travel and trying to make an appointment for doctor as this is an allergic reaction but may become an infection due to the oozing. It is evident that something really is going on.
> 
> As I have an array of TWS, never actually use these for whole days because I vary them depending what I am doing. So in thinking about it I have never had the Galaxy Pro's for more than 1hr at a time and that could be the reason why in the past never had any reaction.
> 
> ...


Lg has some earbuds that have built in UV sanitizers in the case so they are disinfected before use.


----------



## Tommy C (Nov 18, 2021)

darveniza said:


> Just a note for all users, had to take a recent trip and during my rush to travel only had one set of TWS units with me, within 3 days of the trip I have been using the TWS for calls, music,etc. Started to experience itching, etc and replaced tips, etc. My right ear started to experience all issues of itching , oozing,etc . The Galaxy Buds Pro were the ones that I had for the trip. Just arrived home from travel and trying to make an appointment for doctor as this is an allergic reaction but may become an infection due to the oozing. It is evident that something really is going on.
> 
> As I have an array of TWS, never actually use these for whole days because I vary them depending what I am doing. So in thinking about it I have never had the Galaxy Pro's for more than 1hr at a time and that could be the reason why in the past never had any reaction.
> 
> ...



Yeah, this was posted a few pages ago as well with Samsung Galaxy TWS being the culprit based on an article.  
I didn't read it as it wasn't relevant to me.

Wishing you a speedy recovery.


----------



## scubaphish

darveniza said:


> Just a note for all users, had to take a recent trip and during my rush to travel only had one set of TWS units with me, within 3 days of the trip I have been using the TWS for calls, music,etc. Started to experience itching, etc and replaced tips, etc. My right ear started to experience all issues of itching , oozing,etc . The Galaxy Buds Pro were the ones that I had for the trip. Just arrived home from travel and trying to make an appointment for doctor as this is an allergic reaction but may become an infection due to the oozing. It is evident that something really is going on.
> 
> As I have an array of TWS, never actually use these for whole days because I vary them depending what I am doing. So in thinking about it I have never had the Galaxy Pro's for more than 1hr at a time and that could be the reason why in the past never had any reaction.
> 
> ...


Really sorry to read that. Here’s the article mentioned; although you’ve likely found this one already. Best wishes for speedy recovery.  



CocaCola15 said:


> Of interest re Samsung TW.
> 
> https://www.androidcentral.com/samsung-galaxy-buds-pro-ear-infections


----------



## david8613

whats the budget king at the moment


----------



## Nick24JJ

Trager said:


> I got the AZ60 a couple weeks ago and my initial impressions were good sound (when EQed) and excellent ANC. The ANC is mostly good, but the places where it breaks down are really rough. Unfortunately, I tried them in wind… and oof, that’s just not great. It’s especially bad with sustained winds — do you know that feeling when you’re driving on the highway and someone opens one window but the others are all closed? That’s what the AZ60 do.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I agree with you, and I can confirm that under the wind the AZ60 is exactly as you described. I can hear the wind passing through. Some would say that it has to do with isolation and tips but I am not facing this issue with my TRI I3 or Melomania 1 or the 1+ I have tried for 2 weeks - now returned and refunded. I believe, it has to do with their shape. Besides that, I fully agree with all those who say they have a good, above average sound. To me, they sound better than the M1, M1+ , but personally I am really looking forward in receiving my FiiO UTWS5! I've already ordered it, I will have it around December 13, and now I am looking for appropriate IEMs, in case it wont drive my I3 decently.


----------



## xSDMx

david8613 said:


> whats the budget king at the moment


What's the budget? For $75, Soundpeats H1 IMHO.


----------



## Robius

david8613 said:


> whats the budget king at the moment


QCY T13


----------



## jant71

david8613 said:


> whats the budget king at the moment


Things like the Elite 3, Earfun Free Pro 2, the "Peats" H1 or Sonic Pro, Haylou W1, Backbeat Tempo 30, QTC T13, Edifier X3. Things like that.


----------



## dj24

darveniza said:


> Just a note for all users, had to take a recent trip and during my rush to travel only had one set of TWS units with me, within 3 days of the trip I have been using the TWS for calls, music,etc. Started to experience itching, etc and replaced tips, etc. My right ear started to experience all issues of itching , oozing,etc . The Galaxy Buds Pro were the ones that I had for the trip. Just arrived home from travel and trying to make an appointment for doctor as this is an allergic reaction but may become an infection due to the oozing. It is evident that something really is going on.
> 
> As I have an array of TWS, never actually use these for whole days because I vary them depending what I am doing. So in thinking about it I have never had the Galaxy Pro's for more than 1hr at a time and that could be the reason why in the past never had any reaction.
> 
> ...



Really sorry to hear that.  Can you provide us a link to those hearing aid cleaners?


david8613 said:


> whats the budget king at the moment



Sheesh.  I was just checking out Bart's site for the same thing and he now has the Fiil Ti Elite as the undisputed pros for just $35 in the budget category (with an updated english app to boot too)

https://www.scarbir.com/tws/fiil-t1-lite-review


----------



## darveniza

dj24 said:


> Really sorry to hear that.  Can you provide us a link to those hearing aid cleaners?
> 
> 
> Sheesh.  I was just checking out Bart's site for the same thing and he now has the Fiil Ti Elite as the undisputed pros for just $35 in the budget category (with an updated english app to boot too)
> ...


----------



## darveniza

https://www.amazon.com/Audinell-Cleaning-Alcohol-Free-Dissolves-Protection/dp/B094YTWZ5S#


----------



## jant71

dj24 said:


> Sheesh.  I was just checking out Bart's site for the same thing and he now has the Fiil Ti Elite as the undisputed pros for just $35 in the budget category (with an updated english app to boot too)
> 
> https://www.scarbir.com/tws/fiil-t1-lite-review


One man's treasure... https://www.head-fi.org/threads/goi...e-we-there-yet.861024/page-2546#post-16600248 ...another man's trash. You decide.


----------



## sebek (Nov 18, 2021)

Tommy C said:


> I have the Sennheiser CX 400BT which according to Sennheiser is the MTW 2 minus ANC and Ambient and the other features but has eq and multiple connections (not multipoint though) and honestly do find them weak in the volume department. I need them to be at 85%-90% to feel like they got enough oomph while I'm always around 60%-75% with other sets of TWS.
> Is it a deal breaker? Not to me, as I don't like to blast my ears but I wish they had a little more headroom.


Tommy, I have zero experience with TWS.

If we talk about SQ what level would you put the CX 400BT, in a comparison with wired IEMs?

I don't know, what should I expect from the MTW2, a level of a Blon BL-03, Moondrop Aria / Starfield or higher, maybe a Tanchjim Oxygen or something on that 200-300 € price range.


----------



## sebek

Granted that it will not be a big problem anyway, I buy from Amazon and if I find it completely unsatisfactory in relation to the price, I send it back.


----------



## Canabuc

sebek said:


> Tommy, I have zero experience with TWS.
> 
> If we talk about SQ what level would you put the CX 400BT, in a comparison with wired IEMs?
> 
> I don't know, what should I expect from the MTW2, a level of a Blon BL-03, Moondrop Aria / Starfield or higher, maybe a Tanchjim Oxygen or something on that 200-300 € price range.


If I can get a renewed pair of mtw2 for about 130$ should I? I briefly owned them in January but found the mic and and sub par but their may have been some updates since to firmware to improve them.


----------



## dweaver (Nov 18, 2021)

Trager said:


> I got the AZ60 a couple weeks ago and my initial impressions were good sound (when EQed) and excellent ANC. The ANC is mostly good, but the places where it breaks down are really rough. Unfortunately, I tried them in wind… and oof, that’s just not great. It’s especially bad with sustained winds — do you know that feeling when you’re driving on the highway and someone opens one window but the others are all closed? That’s what the AZ60 do.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


To bad about the ANC and wind. Might make me hold off buying these for a while. The AZ70 also suffers in wind with ANC on. The way they talked I hoped they had that issue fixed. On the flip side of I disable ANC when walking the AZ70 is not bad.

I also have the GBuds Pro which is pretty decent in the wind with ANC so will use them for now even though the overall ANC is a bit weak.


----------



## Tommy C (Nov 18, 2021)

sebek said:


> Tommy, I have zero experience with TWS.
> 
> If we talk about SQ what level would you put the CX 400BT, in a comparison with wired IEMs?
> 
> I don't know, what should I expect from the MTW2, a level of a Blon BL-03, Moondrop Aria / Starfield or higher, maybe a Tanchjim Oxygen or something on that 200-300 € price range.



Not sure I'm qualified to answer this as I have been out of the IEM game for a while now and I'm not familiar with the ones you have mentioned but will try to give you a rough idea.
To me the CX 400BT are probably like a $100-$130 set of IEM, which is pretty good but they are a bit of an outlier since their bigger bother is the MTW2 which is around $200 nowadays but was $300 at launch.

Also, with TWS you pay premium for features such as ANC, Ambient etc.
The more tech the more you pay and in most cases the sound quality should be up there however to me, it’s not as clear cut as IEMs and many TWS will have obnoxious consumer tuning of boomy bass, V shape curve. Something I would avoid in IEMs altogether.


----------



## Caipirina

Tommy C said:


> To the best of my knowledge the Aurora blue is the only blue in their lineup and should have the presets.
> Hopefully you got them from a reputable dealer so it's not a Chinese clone.


1More Official Store .. that should be ok then  
I just found it weird that the presets / Aurora difference was not more heavily marketed .. and I swear in one shop they said that only the global blue version has that feature .. ah well ... I will see, supposed to arrive by nov 29


----------



## Caipirina

david8613 said:


> whats the budget king at the moment


for ANC i'd go with the QCY HT03
I paid after coupons a mere 33.24$ and the ANC is strong, the fit is very much like the airpods pro and I personally like the sound (slightly warm / dark, great for EDM / Disco)


----------



## Tommy C

Caipirina said:


> 1More Official Store .. that should be ok then
> I just found it weird that the presets / Aurora difference was not more heavily marketed .. and I swear in one shop they said that only the global blue version has that feature .. ah well ... I will see, supposed to arrive by nov 29



Yeah, very odd marketing decision by 1More or maybe most customers don't care about eq.
The presets make a significant difference and personally I find it very useful for a bunch of different genres.


----------



## Tommy C

JBL Tour Pro+ on sale this weekend.
Worth a shot or a pass?


----------



## Canabuc

Tommy C said:


> JBL Tour Pro+ on sale this weekend.
> Worth a shot or a pass?


I saw live pro plus for 90$


----------



## Tommy C

Canabuc said:


> I saw live pro plus for 90$


What’s the verdict, which one is better? 
I’m not really familiar with JBL but reading their app is rather buggy.


----------



## Ceeluh7

Tommy C said:


> JBL Tour Pro+ on sale this weekend.
> Worth a shot or a pass?


I have heard glowing praise on this set in a Facebook group I am in. I mean glowing praise dude.


----------



## sebek

I ordered the Sennheiser MTW2 on Amazon.it for Black Friday. It should arrive tomorrow ... I'll give my impressions.


----------



## d3myz

Anyone pick these EarFun Free Pro 2's up yet? 

I got mine yesterday, I skipped the first version of these as I already had the FIIL T1 Pro which I used for quite some time. I'm happy to say these are a huge improvement.
I love the rounded edges and the case is now almost the same size as the Mavin Air XR, it's Tiny. 

I did a A/B comparison with the Momentum TW2 which i've been using as my DD all week and i'm about to send back due to the uncomfortable fit, terrible phone call quality and latency in connecting to my devices. My first impression is that the MTW2's sounded cold and the mids pushed quite a bit forward when I switched back and forth. The MTW's better clarity and more sparkle but just not at all exciting to listen in comparison. 

DISCLAIMER: All you purist dudes who love the flat IMO lifeless  sounding earbuds these probably aren't for you.

SoundStage is wide open and the instrument separation is excellent. Touch button response is also very good, my only gripe is it takes about 2-3 seconds to cycle between ambient/off/ANC modes. The buttons control everything there is a guide in the manual.

Transparency mode is surprisingly good, I think it's better than the Jabra Elite 85t and the MTW 2's. I don't love the closed ear resonance I get from the MTW 2's or these, but i've had several conversations with these in with my wife and kids with no problem hearing them. The ANC is really good, not quite as good at the 85t, better than the MTW2's and better with low end frequencies than the Air Pod Pros with it's (newest FW 4A402). The buds are really comfortable and the silicone tips that come with the EFFP2's are really soft and malleable. I'm a big fan. I did try other tips and I didn't like the sound quality as much as the wide boar shallow fit tips these come with. 

Mids are well presented, good depth but slightly recessed, As a drummer i'm super picky about the snare drum placement and pitch and every song I listened to sounded accurate and well accounted for, not to thin, not too muddy with good attack.

The bass has ample punch and a plentiful amount of Sub Bass response yet it remains tight and measured w/o muddling the mids and highs. 

The highs are akin to the FIIL T1 and T1 pro, they aren't as crisp and sparkly as the lypertek tevi, or MTW 2, but close, they have plenty of detail without any sibilance like the LP3's. I used this track as ref. her vocals are ear splitting on certain TWS'

It's been a while since i've been this impressed with a chi-fi offering every song on I listened to on my headphone test playlist sounded really good I found myself getting chills and being really excited to listen to songs i've heard hundreds of times before. For $56/$80 retail these are absolutely the king IMO. If the price of these were $100 i'd still be happy to pay it. I'm interested to see what some of you other folks think.


----------



## d3myz (Nov 19, 2021)

bump


----------



## d3myz (Nov 19, 2021)

bump


----------



## Luke Skywalker

Toom said:


> Anyone got good things to say about using the Fiio UTSW3 vs true wireless sets?


Hey I’m using the Fiio with my JH Lola’s and they sound pretty incredible


----------



## d3myz

sebek said:


> I ordered the Sennheiser MTW2 on Amazon.it for Black Friday. It should arrive tomorrow ... I'll give my impressions.


hope your experience will be better than mine. They sound nice, but they were uncomfortable for me and I had all sorts of phone call issues and they took a long time to connect to my iphone 13.


----------



## d3myz

Tommy C said:


> JBL Tour Pro+ on sale this weekend.
> Worth a shot or a pass?


I just snagged these, thanks for the heads up.


----------



## d3myz

dj24 said:


> Been a while since I've seen you in this thread..  What's currently in your rotation and which one are you enjoying the most?


It has been a bit. Good to be back. Currently the Jabra 85t is DD. it's just the best for zoom, phone calls and the multi-point is great. I also use the Echo Buds 2, 75ts, APPs and Tevis, nothing to new or crazy, I use the Tevi's pretty much in the shower, the APPs when i'm out and about and need my text's dictated and the Echo Buds/75ts for work, my 85ts are for everything else really. I got the Sennheiser MTW 2's and had them for a week, wasn't a fan, they hurt my ears and phone calls struggled. They are going back. Also, I just got the the EarFun Free Pro 2 yesterday and they are really excellent. I just gave my impression in the thread..


----------



## Ceeluh7

Luke Skywalker said:


> Hey I’m using the Fiio with my JH Lola’s and they sound pretty incredible


Ummm... No tws can touch a decent set of iems and the fiio utws3... Period


----------



## erockg

BooleanBones said:


> I am thinking I need to take those CXs for a test spin. You guys keep talking about them and the curiosity is killing me


I think you should pass.  What you have in your collection definitely beats them.  They're great, but ya know.


----------



## erockg

Whelp.  Another set cometh.  Love the new color.  Matte charcoal is MUCH better than the gloss silver imo.  No app but the tuning is pretty great.  Decent bass for rock & metal.  Listening to some new BLS tracks and whew, awesome.  ANC is weak.  Passive isolation helps big time.  Buds fit me like a glove.  Transparency is there, but not great.  Case is small.  No wireless charging.  Full controls on buds.  FWD, Play/Pause, Volume, ANC/Transparency.  No auto-pause.


----------



## BooleanBones

erockg said:


> I think you should pass.  What you have in your collection definitely beats them.  They're great, but ya know.


Thanks for talking me off the ledge. On a side note, the black AZ60s are now on US Amazon with a 2 week order window FWIW. (ordered)


----------



## erockg

Lazy Saturday morning here so I'm going back and forth between those 60s and the KEFs.  I think the 60s have a harsh sibilance with Dynamic Mode in comparison.  I'll have to try harder to EQ that out.  I just prefer the Dynamic EQ setting best.  The KEFs are much more balanced.  Listening to this:  



 and it's just awesome.  Can't EQ the KEFs, but they do sound better imo.  Sadly, no frills in comparison to all the 60s features.


----------



## jant71

erockg said:


> Lazy Saturday morning here so I'm going back and forth between those 60s and the KEFs.  I think the 60s have a harsh sibilance with Dynamic Mode in comparison.  I'll have to try harder to EQ that out.  I just prefer the Dynamic EQ setting best.  The KEFs are much more balanced.  Listening to this:
> 
> 
> 
> and it's just awesome.  Can't EQ the KEFs, but they do sound better imo.  Sadly, no frills in comparison to all the 60s features.


I just usually use my Cowon. I am not a streamer and my podcasts are about as easy to just load up from the laptop as they are dealing with the apps. Nice to have the physical controls and volume wheel and always have the Jet Effect and 140 volume steps regardless of TWS. Better sounding than a phone over BT as well. Of course I couldn't get the Technics with no aptX and the battery wasn't great. Happy with my choice of the Audio-Technica which has gotten all 5 star reviews so far except for one that said they wouldn't charge but could have been a dummy that didn't take the stickers off, lol. Always like the KEF but not so much the color and apparent weakness of the ANC. The Charcoal does seem available now... https://www.crutchfield.com/S-ZHw8Y...awdv=c&awkw=kef mu3&awmt=e&awnw=o&awat=&awug=


----------



## Luke Skywalker

darveniza said:


> Just a note for all users, had to take a recent trip and during my rush to travel only had one set of TWS units with me, within 3 days of the trip I have been using the TWS for calls, music,etc. Started to experience itching, etc and replaced tips, etc. My right ear started to experience all issues of itching , oozing,etc . The Galaxy Buds Pro were the ones that I had for the trip. Just arrived home from travel and trying to make an appointment for doctor as this is an allergic reaction but may become an infection due to the oozing. It is evident that something really is going on.
> 
> As I have an array of TWS, never actually use these for whole days because I vary them depending what I am doing. So in thinking about it I have never had the Galaxy Pro's for more than 1hr at a time and that could be the reason why in the past never had any reaction.
> 
> ...


That’s terrible, my friend. I clean the tips and the insides of my ears with a disposable alcohol wipe before and after use, but mostly to keep a good seal.


----------



## Luke Skywalker (Nov 20, 2021)

Well I finally feel like I have a nice collection of TWS:
1) Devialet w/ Acoustune AET08 - astonishing sound but bad for the treadmill and chewing (popping sound)
2) B&O EQ w/ foam tips - incredible sound and fit 
3) Klipsch Mcclaren ANC - I absolutely love these things
4) Bose NC (best noise canceling)
(5) NUARL N6 Pro
(6) Jabra 65 - oldies but goodies
(7) Fiio UTSW3 + JH Lola - astonishing sound. wish they had NC

I also have the Sony XM3s but I hate them. I have the KEF mu3’s which sound amazing but I’m on my second pair and these ones have problems too


----------



## BigZ12

Luke Skywalker said:


> Well I finally feel like I have a nice collection of TWS:
> 1) Devialet w/ Acoustune AET08 - astonishing sound but bad for the treadmill and chewing (popping sound)
> 2) B&O EQ w/ foam tips - incredible sound and fit
> 3) Klipsch Mcclaren ANC - I absolutely love these things
> ...


You have the popping sound with the Devialets too 
Only on the left side, as me?

I'm curious about the Klipsch. Sound vs Devialet? ANC/Transparency any good?


----------



## regancipher

Robius said:


> QCY T13


The T16 sound way better


----------



## darveniza

Luke Skywalker said:


> That’s terrible, my friend. I clean the tips and the insides of my ears with a disposable alcohol wipe before and after use, but mostly to keep a good seal.


Well , just a follow up. I got placed on a short treatment of antibiotics plus steroid cream. Doctor indicated that something may have created a reaction that damaged my skin and also created the other symptoms. My ear did not have any build up of wax or other triggers traditionally associated with ear issues. He did state that if I do get itchy after using certain earbuds or tips to ditch these as these my be associated to certain polymers that create irritation and if use over time could create damage to tissue, he also mentioned that only use cleaning or other products approved for “hearing” , he warned about cleaning tips with alcohol, alcohol based mouth wash and some other solutions as residue will remain and over time this will create irritation. He asked me to avoid earphones for at least to allow steroid cream to work uninterrupted

Go figure


----------



## BooleanBones

darveniza said:


> Well , just a follow up. I got placed on a short treatment of antibiotics plus steroid cream. Doctor indicated that something may have created a reaction that damaged my skin and also created the other symptoms. My ear did not have any build up of wax or other triggers traditionally associated with ear issues. He did state that if I do get itchy after using certain earbuds or tips to ditch these as these my be associated to certain polymers that create irritation and if use over time could create damage to tissue, he also mentioned that only use cleaning or other products approved for “hearing” , he warned about cleaning tips with alcohol, alcohol based mouth wash and some other solutions as residue will remain and over time this will create irritation. He asked me to avoid earphones for at least to allow steroid cream to work uninterrupted
> 
> Go figure


Hoping for a speedy recovery.


----------



## scubaphish

darveniza said:


> Well , just a follow up. I got placed on a short treatment of antibiotics plus steroid cream. Doctor indicated that something may have created a reaction that damaged my skin and also created the other symptoms. My ear did not have any build up of wax or other triggers traditionally associated with ear issues. He did state that if I do get itchy after using certain earbuds or tips to ditch these as these my be associated to certain polymers that create irritation and if use over time could create damage to tissue, he also mentioned that only use cleaning or other products approved for “hearing” , he warned about cleaning tips with alcohol, alcohol based mouth wash and some other solutions as residue will remain and over time this will create irritation. He asked me to avoid earphones for at least to allow steroid cream to work uninterrupted
> 
> Go figure


Seems like good news re: prognosis. Thanks for info re: alcohol, too.


----------



## chinmie

regancipher said:


> Anyone got the Tronsmart Onyx Prime yet? Putting them through testing today, not bad at all. Surprisingly very impressive.



I just got my Onyx Prime a couple of days ago, it's surprisingly good sounding with capable drivers performance. my only major gripe at this moment is that app conectivity is quite wonky: every time i paired it to the app, the next time i put it in and out of the case the unit won't pair again to my phones, with the only solution is to unpair and re-pair them again to the phone (and not connecting it to the app)

also have you successfully updated the unit's firmware yet? i tried it several times but it keeps getting my failed instalation message..and after that i have to reset the unit (because it won't pair again unless i reset it)


----------



## dweaver

So tempting, can get the AZ60 for $199Cad, unfortunately I can't  do 14 day pay on delivery from PayPal so will have to wait...


----------



## Peddler (Nov 21, 2021)

I'm getting some really excellent sounds out of the new Tronsmart Onyx Prime's. No ANC or ambient - just really dynamic, detailed and yet comfortable sound.

Bass is a little strident but it can be tamed with their app which now offers a multi-band EQ as well as being able to re-configure the touch controls.  With a little EQ they have a similar character to the Sony WF1000XM3's but with a little more detail in the high end. 

I think their current 'Black Friday' price is around 47 Euros.

I've just posted a review.

https://www.tronsmart.com/products/tronsmart-onyx-prime-dual-driver-wireless-earbuds


----------



## Tommy C

dweaver said:


> So tempting, can get the AZ60 for $199Cad, unfortunately I can't  do 14 day pay on delivery from PayPal so will have to wait...



Personally, I’m on the fence and not sure  if they are better than their predecessor based on what I have been reading. 
Seems like they added more bass, more warmth and tamed the highs with the new model and soundstage according to  a couple of reviews is nothing special. 

The price is tempting but I have a feeling might be disappointed.


----------



## dweaver

Tommy C said:


> Personally, I’m on the fence and not sure  if they are better than their predecessor based on what I have been reading.
> Seems like they added more bass, more warmth and tamed the highs with the new model and soundstage according to  a couple of reviews is nothing special.
> 
> The price is tempting but I have a feeling might be disappointed.


You could very well be right. The fact is I do have the Samsung Buds Pro which  have a bit heavier mid-bass but maintain the highs and they work well in the wind. So might be better waiting. Will see if they are still on sale when I get paid . If not I am definitely not paying full retail...


----------



## Tommy C (Nov 21, 2021)

dweaver said:


> You could very well be right. The fact is I do have the Samsung Buds Pro which  have a bit heavier mid-bass but maintain the highs and they work well in the wind. So might be better waiting. Will see if they are still on sale when I get paid . If not I am definitely not paying full retail...



I mean, if you really need the features of the AZ60 I think it makes sense but to me, for me current rotation I think I'm covered and sort of doubting myself if I really _need _something new to play around with it or it's just chasing something that doesn't exist lol

The 1More Comfobuds Pro suffer wind noise at times but they have the Noise Reduction feature and it works like a charm.

Are you still using the Sennheiser CX 400BT?


----------



## florence (Nov 21, 2021)

I recommend you all to try out Earfun Free Pro gen1 with Oluv EQ settings (you need to subscribe to his Patreon for a month). As a Stax guy, I found that these sound pretty cheap and bloated out of the box and to be honest I couldn't continue listening session more than 10 minutes at first. However, with some EQ tricks it sounds way better than the most tws in ears out there including the most expensive ones. Just my 2 cents.


----------



## Luke Skywalker

BigZ12 said:


> You have the popping sound with the Devialets too
> Only on the left side, as me?
> 
> I'm curious about the Klipsch. Sound vs Devialet? ANC/Transparency any good?


Ha right side too my friend   I’ve accepted this limitation, but it is a little frustrating at this price point.

Man I’m not sure I could even pick between these and the Klipsch II ANC Mcclaren, sound wise. The fit is much better on the Klipsch (for me personally) and i love the controls.

looks like they’re On sale at amazon for $249!

Klipsch T5 II Active Noise Cancelling ANC True Wireless Earphones McLaren Edition with AI Hands-Free Operation, Bluetooth 5.0, Best Fitting Earbuds with Patented Comfort, and a Wireless Charging Case https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08PG4LMPW/


----------



## Tommy C (Nov 21, 2021)

florence said:


> I recommend you all to try out Earfun Free Pro gen1 with Oluv EQ settings (you need to subscribe to his Patreon for a month). As a Stax guy, I found that these sound pretty cheap and bloated out of the box and to be honest I couldn't continue listening session more than 10 minutes at first. However, with some EQ tricks it sounds way better than the most tws in ears out there including the most expensive ones. Just my 2 cents.



One thing to clarify I believe all the Earfun TWS are made by Fiil but the Earfun variations don't have an app while most if not all of Fiil TWS have a nice app with full eq, presets and some other features such as Low Latency, touch control sensitivity adjuster and a few more.
The Oluv edition doesn't have a Fiil equivalent though,  so iOS users are out of luck if that's needed.

Just thought I'll throw it out there since to me no app is a big deal and I think more and more brands should be pushed to release a decent app with their TWS and not just for the features in the app but also for future firmware updates.


----------



## dweaver

Tommy C said:


> Are you still using the Sennheiser CX 400BT?


I do still have the CX400BT. I don't mind it's something new but the reality is it is a warmer signature so might be the AZ60 for the most part in regards to signature.

The 2 features I like about the AZ60 I don't have with any TWS at the moment are multipoint connectivity and LDAC and both are nice to have versus requires. To be blunt I don't find LDAC nearly as game changing as it is supposed to be. The multipoint would be nice though so I could use my PC for teams while playing music from my phone.


----------



## Tommy C (Nov 21, 2021)

dweaver said:


> I do still have the CX400BT. I don't mind it's something new but the reality is it is a warmer signature so might be the AZ60 for the most part in regards to signature.
> 
> The 2 features I like about the AZ60 I don't have with any TWS at the moment are multipoint connectivity and LDAC and both are nice to have versus requires. To be blunt I don't find LDAC nearly as game changing as it is supposed to be. The multipoint would be nice though so I could use my PC for teams while playing music from my phone.


I was thinking about the CX 400BT because personally I thought the AZ60 will be sort of similar in terms of sound signature just with added features but I could be completely wrong.
One thing that I had to get used with the CX 400BT is that the mids are not ‘in your face’ and they are like over the ear headphones in terms of imagining.
I’m one of those odd dudes who often prefers IEMs over full size headphones, however I took the CX 400BT for a walk downtown today and they isolate well and sound awesome. They lack features but I knew that when bought them.

Despite being very happy with my current rotation I still look around but so far nothing specific is on my radar.


----------



## Canabuc

dweaver said:


> So tempting, can get the AZ60 for $199Cad, unfortunately I can't  do 14 day pay on delivery from PayPal so will have to wait...


Where?


----------



## dweaver

https://musicredone.com/products/te...tm_source=google&utm_campaign=Google Shopping


----------



## quick1

Luke Skywalker said:


> Ha right side too my friend   I’ve accepted this limitation, but it is a little frustrating at this price point.
> 
> Man I’m not sure I could even pick between these and the Klipsch II ANC Mcclaren, sound wise. The fit is much better on the Klipsch (for me personally) and i love the controls.
> 
> ...


I've had popping on both sides before. I use the SednaEarfit Crystal's and I was using the MS size. I went up one 1/2 size to the Med and I'm not 100% sure but it seems to have cut down the popping some. I only went bigger because I seemed to be getting inconsistent bass response at times. I really didn't notice any popping today but I was in slow motion and I'm normally moving about like a madman.


----------



## dweaver

If still on sale when I get paid I might bite.


----------



## quick1

erockg said:


> Lazy Saturday morning here so I'm going back and forth between those 60s and the KEFs.  I think the 60s have a harsh sibilance with Dynamic Mode in comparison.  I'll have to try harder to EQ that out.  I just prefer the Dynamic EQ setting best.  The KEFs are much more balanced.  Listening to this:
> 
> 
> 
> and it's just awesome.  Can't EQ the KEFs, but they do sound better imo.  Sadly, no frills in comparison to all the 60s features.


Are you still placing the Devialet Gemini's as your #1 set for sound quality?


----------



## bladefd

Black friday early deals look underwhelming again this year too, I don't have any expectations for black Friday or cyber monday. Last year was COVID shutdowns and this year is supply shortages. It's too bad.. Hopefully next year things are back on track.


----------



## Tommy C

dweaver said:


> https://musicredone.com/products/technics-eah-az60ek-true-wireless-earbuds-black?currency=CAD&utm_medium=cpc&utm_source=google&utm_campaign=Google Shopping



Honestly, I'm surprised to see them on sale already. I don't they are selling like hot cakes for whatever reason. 
Maybe people go with big names first.... Still odd to me though.


----------



## indigo

So, getting back into the game after a year of using the B&W PX7, and somehow misplacing my Senn MTWs and Aviot Triple drivers while moving house, I am now looking at one of the following as replacements. Appreciate anyone who can give me some advice.

1. Devialet Geminis;
2. Shure Aonic Frees;
3. Noble Fokus Pros;
4. Shure TWS adapter Gen 2 plus Aonic 4 or 5 (not sure which is better but don’t want to go to SE846 as that’s way more than I’m prepared to spend).

I value SQ above all, and bug- free operation. I like to hear clarity of instruments, musicality and listen to a mix of rock and 80-90s British bands.  I’m quite sure option 4 is probably the way to go but I like the plug n play of mobile iems, so between 1-3, which would be the better option for SQ?
Thanks in advance.


----------



## erockg

quick1 said:


> Are you still placing the Devialet Gemini's as your #1 set for sound quality?


TWS sound, yes.  But the battery drain issue and getting only 3-4 hours battery life has put them on my back burner.


----------



## erockg

indigo said:


> So, getting back into the game after a year of using the B&W PX7, and somehow misplacing my Senn MTWs and Aviot Triple drivers while moving house, I am now looking at one of the following as replacements. Appreciate anyone who can give me some advice.
> 
> 1. Devialet Geminis;
> 2. Shure Aonic Frees;
> ...


I have the TW2 second Gen with the SE846 and they’re euphoric. Also have the Free and I love them.  4, 2 then 1 and I haven’t tried the Fokus YET.  They’re on my list.


----------



## indigo

erockg said:


> I have the TW2 second Gen with the SE846 and they’re euphoric. Also have the Free and I love them.  4, 2 then 1 and I haven’t tried the Fokus YET.  They’re on my list.


Thanks for that, was hoping you’d come online as I’ve done a lot of catching up reading and you seem to have/ had most of the ones I’m looking at!


----------



## erockg

indigo said:


> Thanks for that, was hoping you’d come online as I’ve done a lot of catching up reading and you seem to have/ had most of the ones I’m looking at!


Happy to help!    If you have Amazon, try them both.  Amazon has a great return policy.  Both Shure buds have the same control scheme.


----------



## BigZ12

Luke Skywalker said:


> Ha right side too my friend   I’ve accepted this limitation, but it is a little frustrating at this price point.
> 
> Man I’m not sure I could even pick between these and the Klipsch II ANC Mcclaren, sound wise. The fit is much better on the Klipsch (for me personally) and i love the controls.
> 
> ...


One store in Norway with the Klipsch... NOK 4599,- ($515). Asked for a BF offer, but nope...
Amazon will of course not send to Norway...


----------



## Ckro

I was looking for a sweet small pair of TWS, nothing fancy but with some punch and great fit.
I received the Earfun free pro this weekend and they tick all the boxes for the moment. I still have to try the call quality, but for nearly 50eur it's a great solution.

I will probably end with a pair of Comfobuds Pro too, to be used at home...


----------



## Lam3r_co.

Hey all, could anyone please recommend wireless IEMs, that have great sound insulation? I'm used to Etymotic triple flange and love both the sound and silence, but want something truly wireless. For some reason, my brain has issues with active noise cancellation on all headphones I've tried, so I'm trying to avoid that.
From what I've seen there's no wireless IEMs with triple flanges yet and the only Etymotic offering is a unwieldy bluetooth cable.
Sound wise, I tried multiple iterations of AirPods and wasn't really a fan. Sennheiser momentum 2 were closest to my liking, however I had issues with connection dropping. I also thought of getting the Fiio BT behind ear contraption and connecting Etymotic mmcx, but it seems like a bulky contraption.

Additional question - how common is wireless charging for the headphone case? It would be great if I could reverse charge the headphone case from my phone wirelessly.


----------



## BooleanBones

BigZ12 said:


> One store in Norway with the Klipsch... NOK 4599,- ($515). Asked for a BF offer, but nope...
> Amazon will of course not send to Norway...


Good lord, I could probably fly over there and sell you mine cheaper than that


----------



## BigZ12

BooleanBones said:


> Good lord, I could probably fly over there and sell you mine cheaper than that


Hehe, I was actually joking about that, telling the seller I could order a cheap ticket to NY, buy the Klipsch, fly back and it would be cheaper...


----------



## dj24

New budget kings?

https://www.theverge.com/22787814/wyze-buds-pro-review-earbuds-headphones-audio-price


----------



## Nick24JJ

I've returned my AZ60 today and got refunded already. In overall, they were a nice pair, they sounded good. Bluetooth connectivity was weak, meaning the phone should be in the same room with me. Also, the fit was not the optimum, on a windy day I could hear the wind passing through on peaceful songs. I never took them while jogging but something tells me they are not meant for sports, because one day, while brushing my teeth and leaning over, one felt off my ear. In any case, I enjoyed them and for fifty pounds less, they would be a bargain.

Today, I've also received these.  I've just started burning them in, they require 200+ hours... The fit is amazing, and I sincerely hope they will open up and play better = more bass. I believe they will pair well with my FiiO UTWS5, which arrives around December 13.


----------



## d3myz (Nov 22, 2021)

Ckro said:


> I was looking for a sweet small pair of TWS, nothing fancy but with some punch and great fit.
> I received the Earfun free pro this weekend and they tick all the boxes for the moment. I still have to try the call quality, but for nearly 50eur it's a great solution.
> 
> I will probably end with a pair of Comfobuds Pro too, to be used at home...


I had the FIIL T1 Pro which is the Clone of the ones these, they are a great set of buds. I did a review of V2 of these , they came out today for $80 U.S. Version 2 improved the bass, ANC, Ambient Mode, added 2 mics for improved call quality and rounded the body.  IMO they are def. worth the extra $30 

Here's the link to my post if you're interested.


----------



## jant71

dj24 said:


> New budget kings?
> 
> https://www.theverge.com/22787814/wyze-buds-pro-review-earbuds-headphones-audio-price


Seriously? Fatiguing highs, low battery, wind noise issue, and picky touch controls is a king of what?  Some forced clarity with a treble heavy sig seems about it. Really want to go outside where you use even higher volume with that? Love the part about them falling out after a short jog. Getting about a little over 3 hours of use is great. Dude can't even shave right and you are gonna think about buying something on his word. Go ahead buy these over a Comfo Pro or the latest Earfun.


----------



## Ckro

d3myz said:


> I had the FIIL T1 Pro which is the Clone of the ones these, they are a great set of buds. I did a review of V2 of these , they came out today for $80 U.S. Version 2 improved the bass, ANC, Ambient Mode, added 2 mics for improved call quality and rounded the body.  IMO they are def. worth the extra $30
> 
> Here's the link to my post if you're interested.



Thanks ! I missed this and I just saw the review ok Scarbir's website as well...
So I just asked Amazon for a return and bought the Free Pro 2... Amazon France offers a 20% coupon on the 2 so it's basically the same price as the 1st version until 26th November


----------



## d3myz

dj24 said:


> New budget kings?
> 
> https://www.theverge.com/22787814/wyze-buds-pro-review-earbuds-headphones-audio-price


I haven't heard the wyze buds, I own a bunch of their products and they are great for the price. I got the Ear Fun Free 2 for $60, $80 retail and they are all around fantastic.


----------



## d3myz

jant71 said:


> Seriously? Fatiguing highs, low battery, wind noise issue, and picky touch controls is a king of what?  Some forced clarity with a treble heavy sig seems about it. Really want to go outside where you use even higher volume with that? Love the part about them falling out after a short jog. Getting about a little over 3 hours of use is great. Dude can't even shave right and you are gonna think about buying something on his word. Go ahead buy these over a Comfo Pro or the latest Earfun.


They forgot to mention that Wyze probably supplied the Verge with a free suite of their products and sponsorship money. JK, but seriously and 8/10?


----------



## d3myz

Ckro said:


> Thanks ! I missed this and I just saw the review ok Scarbir's website as well...
> So I just asked Amazon for a return and bought the Free Pro 2... Amazon France offers a 20% coupon on the 2 so it's basically the same price as the 1st version until 26th November


Awesome, i'm interested to hear your thoughts.


----------



## Ckro

I'll keep the 1st version for a few days to compare with the 2nd directly


----------



## Bobbetybob

Picked up the Earfree Fun Pro 2, these are proper little bass canons. It might be too much for most of what I listen to but it definitely makes me want to pick up the Fiil T2 Pro (that's the T1 Pro in the back) to listen to these with a tamer sound and some EQ.

Case and buds are a little bit smaller than the previous model, comfort is about the same (very comfortable for me), ANC seems pretty much as useless as the T1 Pro unfortunately, ambient mode seems better but introduces a faint hiss to everything.

Overall a good shout for anyone after something for about £50 with some heavy bass for those genres that need it, definitely a great gym headphone recommendation.


----------



## xSDMx

Is anyone able to compare the Earfree Fun Pro 2 to the Soundpeats H1? I imagine the H1 will win in clarity, but the Earfree everything else.


----------



## Tommy C (Nov 22, 2021)

dj24 said:


> New budget kings?
> 
> https://www.theverge.com/22787814/wyze-buds-pro-review-earbuds-headphones-audio-price


Wyze? You can do _much _better than that for the money.
Souncore, Fiil, Soundpeats  and even Jabra can be found for $70-$80.
Fiil has some very nice stuff and when on sale can be found for $30.

All of the above will sound miles ahead of Wyze and this is without even hearing the Wyze.


----------



## Tommy C

Jabra 75T on Amazon for 1/2 price for $80.
No brainer if you need something for work and play with decent ANC and great app support.


----------



## Ceeluh7

Nick24JJ said:


> I've returned my AZ60 today and got refunded already. In overall, they were a nice pair, they sounded good. Bluetooth connectivity was weak, meaning the phone should be in the same room with me. Also, the fit was not the optimum, on a windy day I could hear the wind passing through on peaceful songs. I never took them while jogging but something tells me they are not meant for sports, because one day, while brushing my teeth and leaning over, one felt off my ear. In any case, I enjoyed them and for fifty pounds less, they would be a bargain.
> 
> Today, I've also received these.  I've just started burning them in, they require 200+ hours... The fit is amazing, and I sincerely hope they will open up and play better = more bass. I believe they will pair well with my FiiO UTWS5, which arrives around December 13.


I actually just returned the AZ60 as well. A very good set but with something lacking for me. Perhaps I am chasing something which does not exist, however I am chasing nonetheless. The AZ60 have an issue with complicated tracks. For me they lack in some areas of the bass and have certain areas of the spectrum with graininess. Please don't get me wrong any of you who enjoy the AZ60 should be happy.... I'm just a crazy person. I sti primarily listen to iems thru dongle, dap, qudelix or btr5 but I am on the hunt for the best SQ out there in a tws and if I'm not completely happy than why hold onto a $240 set of tws?


----------



## Ceeluh7

OK have any of you fellas tried out the Hiby WH2 Single DD version? I am curious about this set, actually I have been for some time. I just took back the LP3 and the AZ60 and I am simply back to the drawing board.


----------



## dweaver

So would the Jabra 75T be a good choice for $99CAD? Never tried a Jabra yet...


----------



## erockg

Ceeluh7 said:


> I actually just returned the AZ60 as well. A very good set but with something lacking for me. Perhaps I am chasing something which does not exist, however I am chasing nonetheless. The AZ60 have an issue with complicated tracks. For me they lack in some areas of the bass and have certain areas of the spectrum with graininess. Please don't get me wrong any of you who enjoy the AZ60 should be happy.... I'm just a crazy person. I sti primarily listen to iems thru dongle, dap, qudelix or btr5 but I am on the hunt for the best SQ out there in a tws and if I'm not completely happy than why hold onto a $240 set of tws?


The sibilance and fit are leaning me towards returning mine as well.  They're not awful, but are losing some love over here.


----------



## Dobrescu George

I'm really delighted to report that even without me sharing the review too much, it still reached many of you, because some TWS IEMs are always welcome, and NUARL N10 Plus are comfy, sound good, and pocket-friendly~ 

If you have questions, I'm always around, and please look forward to the coming days / weeks, I have many more really interesting reviews to share!! 

https://www.audiophile-heaven.com/2021/11/nuarl-n10-plus-tws-iems-press-forward-attack-force.html


----------



## erockg

dweaver said:


> So would the Jabra 75T be a good choice for $99CAD? Never tried a Jabra yet...


They're great buds and that is definitely a great price, but imo, it's older tech and they're blowing them out.  I had issues with the sound and fit with the 75Ts, but I'm always one who wants the latest and greatest.  Sad addiction


----------



## Ceeluh7

erockg said:


> The sibilance and fit are leaning me towards returning mine as well.  They're not awful, but are losing some love over here.


Man I really wanted to love these. You are correct about the sibilance. I did every mod I could to help it but.... These are just a sibilant set. I think I did get these to a place of good sound but like the LP3 that was with heavy eqing.


----------



## erockg

Ceeluh7 said:


> Man I really wanted to love these. You are correct about the sibilance. I did every mod I could to help it but.... These are just a sibilant set. I think I did get these to a place of good sound but like the LP3 that was with heavy eqing.


Same.  I wound up returning the LP3s as well.  Drove me nuts.  I have to admit, the KEH Mu3s sound very good with the stock sound.  Been rocking them against the AZ60 all day and they sound so much nicer to my old ears.


----------



## Tommy C (Nov 22, 2021)

Marshall Mode II is $170 CAD in Canada.  Reg. price is $250.

Shure TW2 is down to $255 from $300 CAD.

Shure Free is available too for $270 down from $320 CAD.

Lypertek PurePlay Z7 down to $180 CAD. 

Sennheiser MTW2 is currently $250 CAD.


----------



## jant71 (Jan 10, 2022)

So, certain TWS are tip finnicky. Not the AT CKS50TW. Stock tips are decent and I like a few others. Some other TWS and even the previous ATH-CK70TW I had were not so accepting of tips. I have the one pair of tips that was a clear best with my previous AT are still good here. I think they may be a Phiaton/Cresyn tip from way back. Have two pair of JVC tips from an FX17, a pair from the AE5T sports TWS, and the old style Ultimate ears gray tips all can be used.





The assumed Phiaton on the top right are longer and softer and slightly smaller bore. Nice balance clean sound slightly less tall but deeper.

The JVC shown with the FX17 to explain why one is red and one black since those earphones have a theme to them. On the slightly softer side and wider bore as big as any here. Second best sound behind the UE tips for big sound with good balance.

The middle UE tips in gray are the best for sound. Just slightly as not very much difference or I would exclude them. A bit nicer bass and the biggest sound for height and width.

The blue JVC sport tips are firmer/a smidge thicker than the rest making them the best for the ANC. They are are very much like the FX17 tips except not as soft or glossy so they are a smidge warmer and take a very slight bit off the upper brightness. Right now with NY wind and weather they are the best choice. 4 out of 5 just behind the Phiaton and above stock for SQ. A smidge more smooth and bigger stage height than Phiaton but a little less bass and treble balance.

In case anyone is curious Spiral dots did not make the list as they are not as good as either of the other two JVC tips. Same bore is just as big but a little more diffuse less sharp. The glossier FX17 tips keep the most high end and sharpness of note as they don't absorb higher freqs as much and the slightly shiny blues reflect or preserve more than the most flat or matte Spiral Dot but not quite as much as the FX17 do.

Probably down to the AT's tear drop shape for the easy, good, comfy fit and why they agree with quite a few tips. there are others in my kit I am sure but I am done trying.


----------



## erockg

Tommy C said:


> Marshall Mode II is $170 CAD in Canada.  Reg. price is $250.
> 
> Shure TW2 is down to $255 from $300 CAD.
> 
> ...


Someone needs to start a live Google spreadsheet for all of us .  No way, I'm not nominating myself.  Then again, if all of us Head-fi veterans have access, we could all update.  Again, not nominating myself!


----------



## jant71

erockg said:


> Someone needs to start a live Google spreadsheet for all of us .  No way, I'm not nominating myself.  Then again, if all of us Head-fi veterans have access, we could all update.  Again, not nominating myself!


Think you should do it!! One column for CAD, one for US, one for EU.


----------



## erockg

jant71 said:


> Think you should do it!! One column for CAD, one for US, one for EU.


You're the devil.  I barely have enough patience to care for my toddler LOL.  If someone DOES create it, I'd totally help update the deals I see out there.


----------



## Tommy C

jant71 said:


> Think you should do it!! One column for CAD, one for US, one for EU.



That's a huge undertaking. erockg might need to get a raise.


----------



## BooleanBones

jant71 said:


> Think you should do it!! One column for CAD, one for US, one for EU.


I was going to nominate him since he wouldn't nominate himself. I thought better of that idea and glad you did it


----------



## erockg

Everyone has got a price.


----------



## jant71

I smell a Go Fund Me.


----------



## darveniza

Need to finish my doctor treatment so I can test new arrivals, plus the JVC Victor coming on Friday


----------



## erockg

darveniza said:


> Need to finish my doctor treatment so I can test new arrivals, plus the JVC Victor coming on Friday


Definitely curious about the ATH-CKS50TW.  Did you get them from Amazon Japan?  Or local?


----------



## BooleanBones

darveniza said:


> Need to finish my doctor treatment so I can test new arrivals, plus the JVC Victor coming on Friday


interested to hear the thoughts on the Victor for sure.


----------



## darveniza

erockg said:


> Definitely curious about the ATH-CKS50TW.  Did you get them from Amazon Japan?  Or local?


Amazon Japan for both AT and JVC


----------



## DigDub (Nov 22, 2021)

QCY T13. Excellent choice for sound quality (with EQ) and cheap price if you don't need ANC.
















Sound quality is clear and well defined highs and mids without sounding sibilant. Vocals sound natural. Bass is dominant, and sounds big, smooth and powerful. I reduced the bass frequency in the sound EQ settings on my Samsung flip 3 by 2 notches and they sound more balanced with warmth. Soundstage is expansive, not inside the head like most earbuds.

The touch control area is on the back of the buds, not on the stem. Controls can be set in the app. Single tap does nothing, double taps and triple taps can be set in the app, including volume control. Long touch on the buds cannot be customised, left skips a track backwards, right skips track forwards. The touch sensitivity is just right, however triple taps require pretty fast consecutive taps, else it will just register as a double tap. One annoyance is that there is only a beep when the buds are connected to the phone and nothing else. There's no beeps for the touch controls, so there's no confirmation on the touch operation.

Build wise, the earbuds and case themselves are made out of plastic and they feel really light and well made. The led lights on the buds show red when charging and does not light up when connected to the phone or in use. Either sides of the buds can be used singly, and the stereo channels are downmixed into mono when a single bud is used. Wireless range is good, didn't encounter any disruption even in crowded areas. Comfort is excellent, I didn't encounter any pain in the ears even after a few hours of wearing them. Mic quality is good.


----------



## d3myz

Hey All, I got the *JBL Tour Pro +* and the *Ear Fun Free Pro 2* this last week and thought do a comparison with these buds:

*Sennheiser Momentum 2
Echo Buds 2
Lypertek Tevi
Jabra Elite 85t*

I apologize in advance for the ridiculously long review, I spent way to much time on it  

*Sound Quality* 

*#1 JBL TP+ / Tevi*
(I got tired of playing with the EQ of the JBL's, you could tune them for days, but they respond really well and have great bass response, wide soundstage, clear and detailed mids and highs. they get a little on the bright side, but I was able to get them to sound near identical to the tevi's with better bass.

*#2 Momentum 2* (Really great sound all around, hesitated to put these in 2nd, but the EQ is limited and adjusting it really messes with the other freqs. mids by default are pushed forward, they can sound a bit cold to me w/o recessing the mids and they just aren't loud enough, but they are a really lovely tuned TWS.

*#3 Ear Fun Free Pro 2 *(Incredible bass, non-fatiguing highs with recessed mids. even though I rated them 3 in SQ, this is only due to recessed mids and lack of an eq. not as detailed in the highs and mid highs as it's competitors, but i'd imagine they can be tweaked with an EQ. I have a headphone playlist i've used for testing all my buds and these just made everything even the poorly mastered songs sound good. 

*#4 Echo Buds 2* ( lots of high mids, good bass and treble, takes some tuning, they sound pretty good but not as good sound as Gen 1 or the other buds on this list.)
*#5 Jabra Elite 85t *( They sound better than the Air Pods Pro, EQ is lacking. They aren't unpleasant to listen to, just not exciting)

*ANC
#1 Jabra Elite 85t *(The Jabra's are till best in class. If you haven't tried these and love ANC, do it. They are only rivaled by the XM4's. I haven't heard the bose but they are def. both better than the Air Pods Pro especially with it's newest firmware*)
#2 Momentum TW2
#3 Ear Fun Free Pro 2
#4 Echo Buds 2
#5 JBL Tour Pro +


Transparency/Ambient*  The Elite 85t and the Free Pro 2's both have excellent Transparency modes, the Ear Funs sound warmer, their mics capture better highs than the Elite 85t yet plug more of your ear canals so they don't feel as natural. The JBL's Transparency modes are Very good , but are just plagued with bugs. the Ambient modes shut off and on all the time and have lots of connection issues.

*#1 Echo Buds 2 
#2 Ear Fun Free Pro 2
#3 Jabra Elite 85t
#4 Momentum TW2
#5 JBL Tour Pro + (kept shutting off)*

*Phone Calls*
*#1 Jabra Elite 85t (*multi-point, mute button, fully customizable call controls, excellent side tone)
*#2 Ear Fun Free Pro 2/ Echo Buds 2 *(calls sound great on both. Side tone on the EFFP2's is just Ambient mode, Echo Buds SideTone is fine but quieter also has mute)
*#4 JBL TP +/ Lypertek Tevi *(the JBL's do not have sidetone while on calls, that's a deal breaker for me, but the call quality was great and they have a mute button.
*#5* *Momentum TW2 *( Even after the update, the MTW 2's still have intermittent bad call quality. They sound quite good, but I experienced a few connection issues. 
*#6* *Lypertek Tevi*  (they work fine, but everyone tells me I sound far away)


*Summary
*
The *Earfun Free Pro 2* are still my favorite to date. They do everything very well, really great sound, ultra portable, fast connection speed, super comfortable, excellent ambient mode and ANC, wireless charging etc. I got them with with a $25 off coupon for $60 total and even at $80 They are punching way above their weight class.

- Great Bass and sub bass, surprisingly controlled for how prominent it is.
- Some of the best Transparency and ANC in all price ranges. I noticed a very slight mid bass boost when ANC is on, but it's almost not noticeable.
- Lack some clarity in high mids, and mids are recessed, highs are clear detail is 8/10. Soundstage is wide open and not sibilant or painful at loud volumes.
- No app but Control everything except previous track can be controlled (3 second lag between Ambient, Normal and ANC modes)
- Battery lasts a good 6 hours, I switched between ANC and Ambient and they also have quick charge
- Can be used in Mono mode, but the Transparency/ANC modes will turn off if one is placed in the case.

_*These are simply a pair of earbuds every enthusiast should have in their collection *_*and if you are looking for an all around workhorse that does everything well, this is the pair. 

Jabra 85t - 
- *Although i'm heavily invested in the Apple ecosystem, the 85t is still the king of Productivity for me. 
- Multipoint still has some growing pains, but it's near flawless. I use them at work on zoom, teams, phone calls and listening to books. 
- Battery life isn't great, I get about 4-5 hours max
- EQ doesn't do much, sound quality is decent, but not great. 
- ANC is some of the best out there and has different levels of adjustment.
- Great transparency mode. 

*Echo Buds 2 - *I also use these weekly at work, they are a great all around bud. They do very well with calls, have very good transparency and ANC is above average. I feel like the battery lasts about 6 hours. They aren't the most comfortable and give me that plugged canal feel. The Controls are somewhat customizable and they have a basic EQ. Def. a great pair of buds for the money and functionality.

*Sennheiser Momentum TW2-*
- Excellent sounding TWS, that do many things very well
-  Big and bulky after a few days I couldn't wear them anymore, they were very uncomfortable. 
- Connectivity issues with ios and Mac OS, (they take about 3-5 seconds longer to connect than the Ear Funs and a few times the didn't connect at all.)  
- Eqing them is effective but boosting the bass muddles the other freqs.  
- Stock sound is really clean and detailed, pushed forward mids sound cold.
 Too Expensive. For the  Price tag ($200) If they Liberty 3 pro can out perform them in SQ at $150, they should be cheaper. I ended up returning these because they got to be unbearably painful after a couple days of use. also, I LOVED the touch tones, so smart. I wish every manufacturer would get on board with this. 

*JBL Tour Pro +*
- Great Bass, Detail and Clarity, Incredibly EQable, 
- Responsive touch controls and tons of features in the app.
- Excellent build quality, nice case, wireless charging, 8 hour battery.
- Plagued by Bugs
- No way to turn off the voice prompts or switch to tones like the MT2's and 85t's.
- No sidetone for calls
- Controls are customizable but akin to the Sony's XM3/XM4 you have to pick different profiles
 - ANC is good but doesn't filter out as much low noise as it should. It's fine but nothing special.
- Ambient mode is very good, but also shut off multiple times during use in quiet environment. (It seemed like it was trying to filter out loud noises even though I was in a quiet environment. )

The left ear bud just decided not to connect to my phone one day and I had to put it in the case a couple times to get it to connect.
I paid $99 for them, which frankly is a steal, but they are going back.

The* Tevi'*s are a my rock steady shower buds, the buttons on them are really hard to press, they aren't great for calls, there is no ANC or Transparency but with a little EQing they sound excellent. They are still one of the best sounding earbuds I have heard to date.


----------



## d3myz

Bobbetybob said:


> Picked up the Earfree Fun Pro 2, these are proper little bass canons. It might be too much for most of what I listen to but it definitely makes me want to pick up the Fiil T2 Pro (that's the T1 Pro in the back) to listen to these with a tamer sound and some EQ.
> 
> Case and buds are a little bit smaller than the previous model, comfort is about the same (very comfortable for me), ANC seems pretty much as useless as the T1 Pro unfortunately, ambient mode seems better but introduces a faint hiss to everything.
> 
> Overall a good shout for anyone after something for about £50 with some heavy bass for those genres that need it, definitely a great gym headphone recommendation.


Just Curious are you using the stock tips? I've had fantastic results with ANC on mine, They seem to focus more on lower frequencies. In my comparison  I tested these and some others standing right in front of a really loud 500 MM fan and they did a fantastic job. I can't even hear road or engine noise in my car when driving. I didn't notice any hiss using ambient mode. 🤷‍♂️


----------



## d3myz

Ceeluh7 said:


> I actually just returned the AZ60 as well. A very good set but with something lacking for me. Perhaps I am chasing something which does not exist, however I am chasing nonetheless. The AZ60 have an issue with complicated tracks. For me they lack in some areas of the bass and have certain areas of the spectrum with graininess. Please don't get me wrong any of you who enjoy the AZ60 should be happy.... I'm just a crazy person. I sti primarily listen to iems thru dongle, dap, qudelix or btr5 but I am on the hunt for the best SQ out there in a tws and if I'm not completely happy than why hold onto a $240 set of tws?


What's the difference in the AZ60 and the AZ70? I had the AZ70 for a week when it launched I remember it sounded pretty good, but all the other features were pretty poor.


----------



## Caipirina (Nov 23, 2021)

Somehow I find myself pondering the Soundcore Liberty 3 Pro again … maybe they were mentioned in one too many YT videos … but I recall when there was all the initial talk / hype / first impressions that I walked away with ‘nah, not for me’ … but heck if I can recall what that was … anyone? What are / were the downsides of the L3Pro?

Also, fellow Amazon.jp shoppers. Are there ever any real specials on TWS other than the standard coupons on no name crap? Will there be any Black Friday sales? Apparently Black Friday is a big thing here now as well judging by the decoration / BF branded TP here.


----------



## HaliHarry

darveniza said:


> Need to finish my doctor treatment so I can test new arrivals, plus the JVC Victor coming on Friday


Hope you get well soon and tell us about the pairs of Victor. Really looking forward to them.


----------



## Bhelpoori

Caipirina said:


> Somehow I find myself pondering the Soundcore Liberty 3 Pro again … maybe they were mentioned in one too many YT videos … but I recall when there was all the initial talk / hype / first impressions that I walked away with ‘nah, not for me’ … but heck if I can recall what that was … anyone? What are / were the downsides of the L3Pro?
> 
> Also, fellow Amazon.jp shoppers. Are there ever any real specials on TWS other than the standard coupons on no name crap? Will there be any Black Friday sales? Apparently Black Friday is a big thing here now as well judging by the decoration / BF branded TP here.


The 6 big negatives on the L3Pro are:
1. It needs significant playing with the app to get it to sound to your liking and the treble might still be too aggressive/artificial for you. I managed to great sound though, perhaps the best of my (cheap) TWS collection, after a lot of fiddling. You may not or can't be bothered to fiddle.
2. The case is annoying to put the 'phones back into the case. You kind of get used to it though.
3. Battery life is average on ANC (below 6 hours for me), below average on calls (4hrs) and if you use LDAC+Talk then it is borderline
4. On multi-device connection, simple things work (like pause on one, play on another, dual connections) especially on two phones but complex ones fail especially on computers.
5. Occasional dropouts for me. Not enough to be annoying but not as stable as say Airpods Pro.
6. ANC acceptable but beaten by quite a few other TWS

They are keepers for me because the sound is great, the microphone quality pretty good especially outside, the controls have everything except for mute, the comfort is good, the security in my ears excellent because of the wings and all the rest is acceptable. Oh, and the LEDs to light up the case, are a brilliant idea. At the price I got them as an early buyer they are great value but maybe just average at retail price today.


----------



## smeghead

Does anyone happen to have any comment/comparison between the Momentum 2 and the AZ60, from primarily a sound quality perspective, but also I guess overall too?


----------



## xSDMx

What's the current best neckband adapter?

I'm starting to realize that maybe for my use case a neckband adapter might make more sense than TWS adapters and the tradeoffs with a TWS adapter are not worthwhile.

Is there any neckband adapter with a charging case or Qi wireless charging?


----------



## Ceeluh7

erockg said:


> Same.  I wound up returning the LP3s as well.  Drove me nuts.  I have to admit, the KEH Mu3s sound very good with the stock sound.  Been rocking them against the AZ60 all day and they sound so much nicer to my old ears.


I've passed up the Kef mu3's for quite some time now. I got hung up on codec support for some reason. Something in my brain sees "only SBC/AAC" and I instantly move on. Maybe I'll take a closer look at these. I have only ever seen good things and I know that there really is no difference between AAC and aptx. The Lypertek soundfree s20 only have AAC and they are some of the best budget sets for SQ period and I have really enjoyed that set. Thanks man I pretty much forgot these exist


----------



## Ceeluh7

xSDMx said:


> What's the current best neckband adapter?
> 
> I'm starting to realize that maybe for my use case a neckband adapter might make more sense than TWS adapters and the tradeoffs with a TWS adapter are not worthwhile.
> 
> Is there any neckband adapter with a charging case or Qi wireless charging?


Not any with a charging case that I know of. There are a few I have owned or tried.
Fiio LCbt2 is really good man. Ldac, sufficient driving power, you do need a set of iems with this.
Shanling has a neckband style with damn near the same specs.
You can get for a massive discount now the 1more Triple Driver bt neckband which carries LDAC. I think I saw it for around 50 bucks recently and the sound is really quite good.
The most powerful I have owned is a very nice neckband set which needs to also be paired with some iems is the Ikko Arc Itb05. It is a beast (for bt neckbands) which has I believe 65 mw @32 ohms and aptx-hd. Really a great bt adapter.
I don't know if this type is what you are referring to but I have owned/own and tried these all and I have liked each one.


----------



## bladefd

Hmm, mtw2 dropped to $160 on Amazon. I don't plan on buying it, but still very good price


----------



## Ceeluh7

bladefd said:


> Hmm, mtw2 dropped to $160 on Amazon. I don't plan on buying it, but still very good price


I was about to buy these and then checked some reviews and saw that these may have low volume issues? I don't know if this is correct, I owned the Senny cx400bt and those were okay in the volume category. I was about to post the new price on Amazon with this question... Do the mtw2 have decent headroom in volume after updates to the firmware?


----------



## VICosPhi

smeghead said:


> Does anyone happen to have any comment/comparison between the Momentum 2 and the AZ60, from primarily a sound quality perspective, but also I guess overall too?


MTW2 has slightly better vocals and soundstage, but AZ60 are better overall imo. AZ60 has more  mid-bass, more 4K-8k treble, louder, much better mics, LDAC and smaller case.


Nick24JJ said:


> I've returned my AZ60 today and got refunded already. In overall, they were a nice pair, they sounded good. Bluetooth connectivity was weak, meaning the phone should be in the same room with me. Also, the fit was not the optimum, on a windy day I could hear the wind passing through on peaceful songs. I never took them while jogging but something tells me they are not meant for sports, because one day, while brushing my teeth and leaning over, one felt off my ear. In any case, I enjoyed them and for fifty pounds less, they would be a bargain.
> 
> Today, I've also received these.  I've just started burning them in, they require 200+ hours... The fit is amazing, and I sincerely hope they will open up and play better = more bass. I believe they will pair well with my FiiO UTWS5, which arrives around December 13.





Ceeluh7 said:


> I actually just returned the AZ60 as well. A very good set but with something lacking for me. Perhaps I am chasing something which does not exist, however I am chasing nonetheless. The AZ60 have an issue with complicated tracks. For me they lack in some areas of the bass and have certain areas of the spectrum with graininess. Please don't get me wrong any of you who enjoy the AZ60 should be happy.... I'm just a crazy person. I sti primarily listen to iems thru dongle, dap, qudelix or btr5 but I am on the hunt for the best SQ out there in a tws and if I'm not completely happy than why hold onto a $240 set of tws?


I know what you guys mean, I find AZ60 really good but they are missing the sub-bass and soundstage/instrument separation so makes it feel like something is missing. I am holding onto these though as they are really good multipurpose TWS (specially with mic quality and mute shortcut).


----------



## Ceeluh7

VICosPhi said:


> MTW2 has slightly better vocals and soundstage, but AZ60 are better overall imo. AZ60 has more  mid-bass, more 4K-8k treble, louder, much better mics, LDAC and smaller case.
> 
> 
> 
> I know what you guys mean, I find AZ60 really good but they are missing the sub-bass and soundstage/instrument separation so makes it feel like something is missing. I am holding onto these though as they are really good multipurpose TWS (specially with mic quality and mute shortcut).


The AZ60 is a very nice all around set for sure. If I didn't have 10 other sets tws.... Man that sounds bad.... Then I would prob keep them as well. Just a few things that that prompted me to take them back and mainly the price tag versus the overall sound quality for my tastes. You should be happy though man... AZ60 are nice


----------



## erockg

Ceeluh7 said:


> I was about to buy these and then checked some reviews and saw that these may have low volume issues? I don't know if this is correct, I owned the Senny cx400bt and those were okay in the volume category. I was about to post the new price on Amazon with this question... Do the mtw2 have decent headroom in volume after updates to the firmware?


I had the CX Plus and they were definitely louder than the MTW2.  That was one of my gripes with the MTW2.  They didn't get as loud as others.


----------



## erockg

xSDMx said:


> What's the current best neckband adapter?
> 
> I'm starting to realize that maybe for my use case a neckband adapter might make more sense than TWS adapters and the tradeoffs with a TWS adapter are not worthwhile.
> 
> Is there any neckband adapter with a charging case or Qi wireless charging?


I have the V-Moda Hexamove Pro coming tomorrow.  They're modular and include an neckband and/or hooks for use.  

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B09BTKNWGS/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1


----------



## Ceeluh7

erockg said:


> I had the CX Plus and they were definitely louder than the MTW2.  That was one of my gripes with the MTW2.  They didn't get as loud as others.


I appreciate that man. I actually just ordered the Single DD Hiby WH2. I figured I will give them a try. They are for the first time (to my knowledge) on Amazon. $149.00 with a 5% coupon. We shall see how they stack up in the price point. Thanks again about the MTW2, saves me from finding out on my own.


----------



## Ceeluh7

erockg said:


> I have the V-Moda Hexamove Pro coming tomorrow.  They're modular and include an neckband and/or hooks for use.
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B09BTKNWGS/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1


This group is awesome... Glad I found it. I will def be interested in your opinion on these


----------



## dweaver

I see London Drugs now has the AZ60 and AZ40 available and on sale in Canada, $199 and $149 respectively.

One thing I am wondering is if they have just used the drivers from the older Panasonic Models in these. I say this because the driver size is exactly the same from the Panasonic ANC model to AZ60 and the non ANC model to the AZ40. If so, regardless of the addition of LDAC and MultiPoint they would sound no better than the old RZS500 model for the most part which might account to some of the negative criticism. I know when I bought the AZ70 it was precisely why I chose them over the Panasonic models. Great price though so still tempting especially since I could use one TWS for music and my computer for Teams meetings.


----------



## bladefd

I know I asked this like 6 months ago, but what's the current best wireless neckbuds? (not true wireless but plain wireless). I am curious if anyone bought something decent lately that is worth checking out. It would be a gift and not for me so perhaps under $150


----------



## xSDMx

erockg said:


> I have the V-Moda Hexamove Pro coming tomorrow.  They're modular and include an neckband and/or hooks for use.
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B09BTKNWGS/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1


Whoa. These look perfect! Interested in your thoughts, definitely. Especially how well they pair between devices.


----------



## erockg

Ceeluh7 said:


> I appreciate that man. I actually just ordered the Single DD Hiby WH2. I figured I will give them a try. They are for the first time (to my knowledge) on Amazon. $149.00 with a 5% coupon. We shall see how they stack up in the price point. Thanks again about the MTW2, saves me from finding out on my own.


I've seen those.  I'm always scared to buy Chi-fi these days.  They also remind me of the Mifo buds.  I swear all these Chi-fi manufacturers steal specs from one another.  Not all, but you know.  Many.  Curious if they're amazing though.  Do tell.


----------



## erockg

xSDMx said:


> Whoa. These look perfect! Interested in your thoughts, definitely. Especially how well they pair between devices.


Gamsky did a basic review.  Supposedly they sound good.  I've always liked V-Moda.  I'll post pics and a few impressions when I get them.  I don't thing they have multi-pairing abilities.  No ANC either.


----------



## xSDMx

xSDMx said:


> Whoa. These look perfect! Interested in your thoughts, definitely. Especially how well they pair between devices.


Hmm. On second thought, the case looks massive and has no Qi wireless charging. 🤔


----------



## xSDMx

Ceeluh7 said:


> Not any with a charging case that I know of. There are a few I have owned or tried.
> Fiio LCbt2 is really good man. Ldac, sufficient driving power, you do need a set of iems with this.
> Shanling has a neckband style with damn near the same specs.
> You can get for a massive discount now the 1more Triple Driver bt neckband which carries LDAC. I think I saw it for around 50 bucks recently and the sound is really quite good.
> ...


Great info. This is exactly what I was looking for. If you had to choose one neckband adapter, which would it be?


----------



## erockg

xSDMx said:


> Hmm. On second thought, the case looks massive and has no Qi wireless charging. 🤔


Exactly.  We'll see if the sound makes up for it.  Not holding my breath... yet.


----------



## jant71

erockg said:


> Gamsky did a basic review.  Supposedly they sound good.  I've always liked V-Moda.  I'll post pics and a few impressions when I get them.  I don't thing they have multi-pairing abilities.  No ANC either.


Are you doing some push ups so you can lift the case when it gets there?


----------



## erockg

jant71 said:


> Are you doing some push ups so you can lift the case when it gets there?


I'm going to keep it in my front pocket for the ladies.


----------



## HerrÄrmel

I'm reading this thread for a long time now and it's so informative. Now I think I have to add something as well.
I always used wired iems but never found my favorites. I mostly used the Shure 535, but have Westone W20, Shure 215, Tinhifi T2pro, 1More triple and some others. Then with all this mask business for comuting, I tried out TWS: The Mifo o7. They were ok but never got a stable fit. then I found the Fiil T1 pro and I was quite happy even though it was a bit of a hassle with the chinese app and the english translation...especially as I use an iPhone. But with my older Android device, I activated all the features and EQed a bit and never had to use the app again.. But the sound signature was just great. I did a lot of comparsions to my wired IEMs and yes, the shure have better sound quality. But the T1 pro are just more fun to listen to.

But of course I wanted more...multipoint especially. And they they have to be as small as possible (I would NEVER wear Bose). But nothing really conviced me...was close to buy the az60 or jabra elite 7 pro...when I heard about fiil t2 pro.

I ordered them and got them after 8 days. Luckily, the english translation and support was already available on xda. And I have to say, I really like them. improved T1 pro in any way. The noice cancelling is a lot better and has 4 modes now. And they can change to the last used device by long pressing ...this is something I really missed with T1 pro.
Connection never failed since I have them... and sound is still great. Every genre somehow.

And everyday I find new improvements: the responsitivity of the touchbuttons is somehow much better.

The only draw-back: battery seems to be a bit weaker. might be the ANC... for me no problem at all.

I'm still curious for others experience...and comparsions... I really wonder how other TWS should be that much better... And I wonder why the T1 pro and T2 pro are not mentionned more often

but I still like to spend money on something more glamurous... but all the interesting stuff is too big in my opinion... and sending back is not possible here (CH).

So just my 50 cents


----------



## Ceeluh7

erockg said:


> I've seen those.  I'm always scared to buy Chi-fi these days.  They also remind me of the Mifo buds.  I swear all these Chi-fi manufacturers steal specs from one another.  Not all, but you know.  Many.  Curious if they're amazing though.  Do tell.


U know I will, there have been very good reviews on some audio sites. U r right they did use the shells of the Mifo 07. They use updated drivers and add better chipset and LDAC. Fingers crossed


----------



## Ceeluh7

xSDMx said:


> Great info. This is exactly what I was looking for. If you had to choose one neckband adapter, which would it be?


Toss up.... The FIIO or the Ikko. They are really great. The ikko can push your iems a bit better however is more expensive. I'd prob say the Ikko is better.


----------



## regancipher

Some new reviews from me:

QCY T13
QCY T17
QCY T16
Tronsmart Onyx Prime
SoundPEATS Mini

Still haven't got round to writing up the Comfobuds 2 yet, hoping they will release some firmware to notch the treble a little.

Been testing the Elevoc Clear this week.....call quality is without question superb but they're very flaky...connection has dropped out at least twice a day for no apparent reason, even suddenly making scratching noises earlier. If I hadn't paid so much for them I'd crack them open and see what crappy chipset they're using


----------



## Darkestred

d3myz said:


> Hey All, I got the *JBL Tour Pro +* and the *Ear Fun Free Pro 2* this last week and thought do a comparison with these buds:
> 
> *Sennheiser Momentum 2
> Echo Buds 2
> ...


The JBL's are growing on me.  At first it seems like mids and vocals are pushed back but its alleviated when the volume is increased and then when they are brought back down everything is good.  So weird, or am i weird.  These kind of remind me of a more natural sounding (with less bass) LP3.  Havent had the phone issue yet.


Bhelpoori said:


> The 6 big negatives on the L3Pro are:
> 1. It needs significant playing with the app to get it to sound to your liking and the treble might still be too aggressive/artificial for you. I managed to great sound though, perhaps the best of my (cheap) TWS collection, after a lot of fiddling. You may not or can't be bothered to fiddle.
> 2. The case is annoying to put the 'phones back into the case. You kind of get used to it though.
> 3. Battery life is average on ANC (below 6 hours for me), below average on calls (4hrs) and if you use LDAC+Talk then it is borderline
> ...



I really really like the LP3.  If they would fix the unnatural treble they would be really nice.  A decent upgrade from the 2.  Great bass, good details.  Still thinnish and recessed mids.  Do also get the cut-out which is sort of annoying.  No issues with pausing and resume on computer / other devices.


----------



## d3myz

Ceeluh7 said:


> I was about to buy these and then checked some reviews and saw that these may have low volume issues? I don't know if this is correct, I owned the Senny cx400bt and those were okay in the volume category. I was about to post the new price on Amazon with this question... Do the mtw2 have decent headroom in volume after updates to the firmware?


Nope, they aren't loud at all.


----------



## Ceeluh7

d3myz said:


> Nope, they aren't loud at all.


I'm really really glad I asked... Nice


----------



## myltz400

darveniza said:


> Just a note for all users, had to take a recent trip and during my rush to travel only had one set of TWS units with me, within 3 days of the trip I have been using the TWS for calls, music,etc. Started to experience itching, etc and replaced tips, etc. My right ear started to experience all issues of itching , oozing,etc . The Galaxy Buds Pro were the ones that I had for the trip. Just arrived home from travel and trying to make an appointment for doctor as this is an allergic reaction but may become an infection due to the oozing. It is evident that something really is going on.
> 
> As I have an array of TWS, never actually use these for whole days because I vary them depending what I am doing. So in thinking about it I have never had the Galaxy Pro's for more than 1hr at a time and that could be the reason why in the past never had any reaction.
> 
> ...


I feel your pain, literally.  Dealing with this for over a year, problems started with APPs.  Apple was kind enough to buy them back.  The Buds pro, Sony xm4, all are no goes for my ears.  Immediate itch then discharge…sorry for details.  Lot of info out about Beats hook causing same reactions.  It appears to be high nickel content, tips, tape, covers don’t help as the air from the speaker is pumped into the sensitive inner ear.

FWIW, my Doc prescribed otc ear cleaner followed by swimmers ear treatment.  You will know when your ears are back to normal, took six months of no ear buds for me.

I think Apple has solved the problem they took a lot of detailed information from me and assume many others. Pictures, doctors recommendations, etc. Anyway the Beats Fit Pro so far for me have caused no issues.  They also sit pretty shallow in the ear.  Really happy to be able to use buds again!


----------



## Violator Mx

Hi everyone! This is my first post here and I need some advice. Sorry for the giant text 
I use M&D MW07 for about a year, I love their sound but the battery has degraded drastically, they last barely an hour, and today they turned off after 20 minutes of play. So I'm looking for a replacement. The problem is that I live in Ukraine, so buying, testing and returning is not an option. I can buy from Amazon or ebay and use a forwarder company to send me stuff from US or EU. I will end up with what I'll buy for months or even years, so I'm trying to choose very carefully. Of course I can try to sell them here but it'll work only with popular brand and model, and I probably lose money anyway.
My price range is under $150-160. I also consider different 'open box' offers on ebay. SQ is most important, the next are ANC, Transparency mode, long battery life, AptX or LDAC. Well, for the max SQ I've got over-ear M&D MW60 to listen to music at home (mostly in a wired mode through DAC), and use TWS mostly for gym, but anyway I'd like to avoid the significant downgrade in SQ comparing to the MW07s. I listen to different genres: rock/indy/alternative, electronics, jazz/acid jazz, trip-hop etc.
I read this thread (at least last ~100 pages) and different reviews, I also listened to sound comparisons on YT, and here are my favorites (with their pros and cons):

*Sennheiser CX Plus/MTW2* (by the way, which one is better?)

Pros: high SQ, good ANC and transparency, reputable brand, the price (CX Plus).
Cons: I'm not sure I'll love the Sennheiser sound. I've bought Sennies CX 400BT for my wife and she loved them (unfortunately they were too large for her ears so had to sell them), but I'm not sure I like their signature. I usually do heavy EQing using third party apps, so maybe I'll manage to EQ them to my taste. Another con is that as far as I know there are many faulty items (MTW2) and I won't be able to return them. MTW2 battery doesn't seem to live long.

*Technics AZ70*

Pros: SQ, brand, premium feel, extremely low price - can be found at about 90 bucks
Cons: No AptX or LDAC, an outdated model. AZ60 seems to be better but it's too pricey for me

*Audio-Technica ATH-CKS50TW*

Pros: SQ, brand, crazy battery life
Cons: never heard a sample of how they sound, large size, complicity of ordering at amazon.jp

*Klipsch T5 II ANC*

Pros: SQ, some guys here seem to be happy with these for a long time (@erockg), BRAGI and so on..
Cons: more pricey than I can afford (although now $179 at amazon is a good price and close to my price range), not so many reviews, never heard a sample of how they sound

*NUARL N6 Pro/Pro2*

Pros: SQ
Cons: less known brand, not so many reviews, no chance to sell them here if I don't like them

*Anker L3P*

Pros: everybody loves them , only good reviews saying this is the best sound in the world ever; relatively easy to sell if I don't like them
Cons: from what I coud hear on YT they sound too bright, I'm not sure that this could be fully corrected with EQ; too high price for a chinese non-audiofile brand; I'm just not sure if I like them (and all this hype)

*Sony WF-1000XM4*

Pros: popular model, good ANC and modern tech; easy to sell if needed
Cons: questionable SQ, overwhelming bass, in all of the comparisons that I heard they sounded worse for me than Sennies or Technics etc; price too high, the only chance to fit in my price range is to find some open box or lightly used offer; feeling of huge overpriced item.

For now my favorites are, I guess, *Sennheiser CX Plus/MTW2*, *Klipsch T5 II ANC* and *Audio-Technica SKC50TW*. If you'd have to keep and use only one of these for a few months or years, which one would it be? Or maybe anything else I didn't come across yet (except all of this chinese stuff like edifier, 1more, fiil, trn, bgvp, qcy etc.., hundreds of them)?

In this comparison of MW08 and MTW2 you can hear which sound I prefer: it's MW08. Which of the above models sound close to the M&D's?


Also here's a sound comparison bw AZ60, AZ70, Jabra Elite 7, Sennheiser CX Plus and Sony WF-1000XM4. For me AZ60 & AZ70 are the best, then the Sennies, then the Sony, and the Jabra is just awful. I wish I could see such a comparison with Klipsch and AT to understand more about thier SQ...


Any advice appreciated


----------



## BooleanBones

Violator Mx said:


> Hi everyone! This is my first post here and I need some advice. Sorry for the giant text
> I use M&D MW07 for about a year, I love their sound but the battery has degraded drastically, they last barely an hour, and today they turned off after 20 minutes of play. So I'm looking for a replacement. The problem is that I live in Ukraine, so buying, testing and returning is not an option. I can buy from Amazon or ebay and use a forwarder company to send me stuff from US or EU. I will end up with what I'll buy for months or even years, so I'm trying to choose very carefully. Of course I can try to sell them here but it'll work only with popular brand and model, and I probably lose money anyway.
> My price range is under $150-160. I also consider different 'open box' offers on ebay. SQ is most important, the next are ANC, Transparency mode, long battery life, AptX or LDAC. Well, for the max SQ I've got over-ear M&D MW60 to listen to music at home (mostly in a wired mode through DAC), and use TWS mostly for gym, but anyway I'd like to avoid the significant downgrade in SQ comparing to the MW07s. I listen to different genres: rock/indy/alternative, electronics, jazz/acid jazz, trip-hop etc.
> I read this thread (at least last ~100 pages) and different reviews, I also listened to sound comparisons on YT, and here are my favorites (with their pros and cons):
> ...



A couple notes on the Klipsch, which have been discussed before and I don't have any issues with, but they do fit a bit deeper in the ears than say the XM4s. The Klipsch also use proprietary tips, so don't expect to easily swap them out. That being said, I do like them and they do perform well across the board. I personally listen to my XM4s more than the Klipsch, but that is primarily due to my overall use patterns (calls, ANC, etc). I will say, I have not experienced any QC issues so far with either of these which is probably important in your scenario depending on where you buy from. I don't have exposure to the other TWS you mention in your list, so can't chime in there. Maybe, if you have an important genre you really like, you could receive some tailored feedback as well. I listen to about everything, but for me Vocal clarity and instrument separation really does it for me. Good luck.


----------



## bladefd

Violator Mx said:


> Hi everyone! This is my first post here and I need some advice. Sorry for the giant text
> I use M&D MW07 for about a year, I love their sound but the battery has degraded drastically, they last barely an hour, and today they turned off after 20 minutes of play. So I'm looking for a replacement. The problem is that I live in Ukraine, so buying, testing and returning is not an option. I can buy from Amazon or ebay and use a forwarder company to send me stuff from US or EU. I will end up with what I'll buy for months or even years, so I'm trying to choose very carefully. Of course I can try to sell them here but it'll work only with popular brand and model, and I probably lose money anyway.
> My price range is under $150-160. I also consider different 'open box' offers on ebay. SQ is most important, the next are ANC, Transparency mode, long battery life, AptX or LDAC. Well, for the max SQ I've got over-ear M&D MW60 to listen to music at home (mostly in a wired mode through DAC), and use TWS mostly for gym, but anyway I'd like to avoid the significant downgrade in SQ comparing to the MW07s. I listen to different genres: rock/indy/alternative, electronics, jazz/acid jazz, trip-hop etc.
> I read this thread (at least last ~100 pages) and different reviews, I also listened to sound comparisons on YT, and here are my favorites (with their pros and cons):
> ...



If you didn't like the cx400bt sound signature then you should probably not get the mtw2/cx plus. They have very similar sound signatures (cx plus is a bit more bass-heavy afaik) so depends on whether you are willing to EQ or not.

AZ70 is very good SQ. It may be an older model, but not by very much (perhaps year and half max). It has very good fairly neutral sound. I had issues getting a good fit (often fell out if I moved my head). If you do get these, I would suggest getting a pair of 3rd party eartips just in case.

Sony have very good EQ and solid app. They are a bit overpriced IMHO even on sale right now for $248 new. It should not be difficult to sell though like you said. Someone will be willing to buy on name alone.


----------



## Tommy C

Violator Mx said:


> Hi everyone! This is my first post here and I need some advice. Sorry for the giant text
> I use M&D MW07 for about a year, I love their sound but the battery has degraded drastically, they last barely an hour, and today they turned off after 20 minutes of play. So I'm looking for a replacement. The problem is that I live in Ukraine, so buying, testing and returning is not an option. I can buy from Amazon or ebay and use a forwarder company to send me stuff from US or EU. I will end up with what I'll buy for months or even years, so I'm trying to choose very carefully. Of course I can try to sell them here but it'll work only with popular brand and model, and I probably lose money anyway.
> My price range is under $150-160. I also consider different 'open box' offers on ebay. SQ is most important, the next are ANC, Transparency mode, long battery life, AptX or LDAC. Well, for the max SQ I've got over-ear M&D MW60 to listen to music at home (mostly in a wired mode through DAC), and use TWS mostly for gym, but anyway I'd like to avoid the significant downgrade in SQ comparing to the MW07s. I listen to different genres: rock/indy/alternative, electronics, jazz/acid jazz, trip-hop etc.
> I read this thread (at least last ~100 pages) and different reviews, I also listened to sound comparisons on YT, and here are my favorites (with their pros and cons):
> ...



Unfortunately I don’t have any experienced with the models you have mentions but just a word of caution. Since you’re most likely unable to test and return I would avoid the open boxes from eBay and such. Yeah, sometimes the deal is great if they work properly but if not you’re sadly out off luck.
Some issues with TWS can arise randomly and after using the product for a good few days which is very frustrating. If it’s DOA it’s frustrating but much easier but since you won’t be able to return I would say away from those deals. Just my 2 cents.


----------



## bladefd

Tommy C said:


> Unfortunately I don’t have any experienced with the models you have mentions but just a word of caution. Since you’re most likely unable to test and return I would avoid the open boxes from eBay and such. Yeah, sometimes the deal is great if they work properly but if not you’re sadly out off luck.
> Some issues with TWS can arise randomly and after using the product for a good few days which is very frustrating. If it’s DOA it’s frustrating but much easier but since you won’t be able to return I would say away from those deals. Just my 2 cents.


Yes, I would avoid used or even refurbished in that situation. That might put the Sony out of the budget.

The Anker or AZ70 (w/ 3rd party tips like the Crystal, but no aptx/ldac) might be the best options. Maybe the Audio-technica, but I don't know how good they are.


----------



## dweaver

Violator Mx said:


> Hi everyone! This is my first post here and I need some advice. Sorry for the giant text
> I use M&D MW07 for about a year, I love their sound but the battery has degraded drastically, they last barely an hour, and today they turned off after 20 minutes of play. So I'm looking for a replacement. The problem is that I live in Ukraine, so buying, testing and returning is not an option. I can buy from Amazon or ebay and use a forwarder company to send me stuff from US or EU. I will end up with what I'll buy for months or even years, so I'm trying to choose very carefully. Of course I can try to sell them here but it'll work only with popular brand and model, and I probably lose money anyway.
> My price range is under $150-160. I also consider different 'open box' offers on ebay. SQ is most important, the next are ANC, Transparency mode, long battery life, AptX or LDAC. Well, for the max SQ I've got over-ear M&D MW60 to listen to music at home (mostly in a wired mode through DAC), and use TWS mostly for gym, but anyway I'd like to avoid the significant downgrade in SQ comparing to the MW07s. I listen to different genres: rock/indy/alternative, electronics, jazz/acid jazz, trip-hop etc.
> I read this thread (at least last ~100 pages) and different reviews, I also listened to sound comparisons on YT, and here are my favorites (with their pros and cons):
> ...



I own the AZ70 and quite enjoy them regardless of having LDAC they sound very good, but are slightly in the larger size. I personally use 3rd party tips on mine.

I am seeing the AZ60 for ng sale for the same price as the AZ70 at $199Cad here in Canada so they might be an option if you can find them on sale.

The Sennheiser MX400BT are nice, with a warmer signature but I prefer the AZ70 over them.

I also own the WF-1000XM3 which I find a bit to dark for my taste out of the box, so suspect the 1000XM4 will be even worse in regards to a darker less exciting signature. Definitely the most expensive to boot.

I personally am wrestling with getting the AZ60 on sale as they would give a good multi-connect option for music and work with my laptop and teams. Reviews do suggest the AZ70 is the better audiophile TWS though regardless of being older. So if SQ reigns supreme they may be the best choice. If I do decide to bite on the AZ60 I will definitely weigh in on the sonic differences and my preference...


----------



## Violator Mx

BooleanBones said:


> A couple notes on the Klipsch.
> [...]
> Maybe, if you have an important genre you really like, you could receive some tailored feedback as well. I listen to about everything, but for me Vocal clarity and instrument separation really does it for me. Good luck.


Thanks for sharing experience with Klipsch.
As for preferred genres, I listen to different music, not everything but many different genres, so like you I also seek for clarity and instrument separation



bladefd said:


> If you didn't like the cx400bt sound signature then you should probably not get the mtw2/cx plus. They have very similar sound signatures (cx plus is a bit more bass-heavy afaik) so depends on whether you are willing to EQ or not.
> 
> AZ70 is very good SQ. It may be an older model, but not by very much (perhaps year and half max). It has very good fairly neutral sound. I had issues getting a good fit (often fell out if I moved my head). If you do get these, I would suggest getting a pair of 3rd party eartips just in case.
> 
> Sony have very good EQ and solid app. They are a bit overpriced IMHO even on sale right now for $248 new. It should not be difficult to sell though like you said. Someone will be willing to buy on name alone.


Thanks for your thoughts. I agree about the Sonys. As for Sennies, I can do a lot of EQ, is not a problem. I can combine eqing with the native app and with the third party app (now I'm using equaliser Pie). I didn't like them, but I listened to them for a short time from my wife's phone w/o eqing at all, so I hope I'll be able to make them sound proper for me.
About the AZ70 - I'm sure they sound great, and other features are good, but the lack of aptX or LDAC can really be a deal-breaker. For now I listen to Spotify and I really hope they add hi-fi quality soon as they promised, so I do think I'll need a high definition codecs even in a gym or on a walk. And if Spotify won't add hi-fi quality, I can switch to tidal or deezer hi-fi. I like these Technics probably the most from the reviews, but only aac... It's disappointing 



Tommy C said:


> Unfortunately I don’t have any experienced with the models you have mentions but just a word of caution. Since you’re most likely unable to test and return I would avoid the open boxes from eBay and such. Yeah, sometimes the deal is great if they work properly but if not you’re sadly out off luck.
> Some issues with TWS can arise randomly and after using the product for a good few days which is very frustrating. If it’s DOA it’s frustrating but much easier but since you won’t be able to return I would say away from those deals. Just my 2 cents.


Thanks, I'll definitely take this into consideration



bladefd said:


> Yes, I would avoid used or even refurbished in that situation. That might put the Sony out of the budget.
> 
> The Anker or AZ70 (w/ 3rd party tips like the Crystal, but no aptx/ldac) might be the best options. Maybe the Audio-technica, but I don't know how good they are.


Thanks, this doesn't make my choice easier haha 


dweaver said:


> I own the AZ70 and quite enjoy them regardless of having LDAC they sound very good, but are slightly in the larger size. I personally use 3rd party tips on mine.
> 
> I am seeing the AZ60 for ng sale for the same price as the AZ70 at $199Cad here in Canada so they might be an option if you can find them on sale.
> 
> ...


Thanks! I'll think about AZ70 and also will be looking for AZ60 on sale. It all is getting more and more interesting...


----------



## Aevum

im trying to find more opinions on the tanchjim echo and how it compares to the mainstream TWS, already been burned by the Koss TWS250i which sound good but are a bit flat and animic.


----------



## Violator Mx

dweaver said:


> I am seeing the AZ60 for ng sale for the same price as the AZ70 at $199Cad here in Canada so they might be an option if you can find them on sale.


Yes it's definitely an option bc my favorite forwarder company ships from Canada to Ukraine so I think I can easily order in Canada, and 200CAD is less than 160USD. Thanks!

So many options out there! Well, the chase is better than the catch


----------



## jant71

Aevum said:


> im trying to find more opinions on the tanchjim echo and how it compares to the mainstream TWS, already been burned by the Koss TWS250i which sound good but are a bit flat and animic.


 If they don't have them for their own site you really can't trust it. When Koss put a TWS out on Koss.com then you know they are worthy enough to them at least. Other market offshoots are first versions or market tests for them I would think. Speaking of Koss, after all this time, they actually wised up after all the headband swaps and they give us this...





The KPH40i


----------



## Ceeluh7

Fiil T2 Pro is out now.... These guys are killing me man. Gamesky has a new YouTube video about them. As I thought though... These are only available in China at the moment, but I suspect it may stay that way, Kevin "Gamesky" said you can find them on Ali right now. I have never had a Fiil set oddly enough but the T2 Pro look nice. Now He did say that these 'out-of-the-Box' sound warmer and may need some EQ


----------



## Violator Mx (Nov 24, 2021)

Violator Mx said:


> *Sennheiser CX Plus/MTW2*, *Klipsch T5 II ANC* and *Audio-Technica SKC50TW
> Technics AZ60*




Just noticed that Klipsch T5 II ANC don't support aptX, only SBC/AAC. How's that possible when even twice cheaper non-ANC version supports aptX?
It's a shame, this probably puts them out of my list


----------



## Ceeluh7

Violator Mx said:


> Just noticed that Klipsch T5 II ANC don't support aptX, only SBC/AAC. How's that possible when even twice cheaper non-ANC version supports aptX?
> It's a shame, this probably puts them out of my list


I saw that as well... How ridiculous. I was going to purchase these and saw the same thing. Granted you prob will not be able to tell a big difference but..... Wth!


----------



## regancipher

Violator Mx said:


> Just noticed that Klipsch T5 II ANC don't support aptX, only SBC/AAC. How's that possible when even twice cheaper non-ANC version supports aptX?
> It's a shame, this probably puts them out of my list


The T5 II ANC design was submitted to FCC back in January, and at that time only Airoha could support some of the features they included. The Airoha chip used in them is the same as the FIIL CC Pro - if Klipsch did the same as FIIL (stripped the legacy mpeg2 elements from the AAC implementation) then the Qualcomm chip required for aptx support would have given buyers no real advantage in latency or bitrate.

I'd say a bigger reason for swerving them would be they're already essentially old tech. If you're a Snapdragon 8 chip phone owner, probably best to wait for the wave of qcc5141/51 based buds to filter through. They'll be the first Qualcomm ones to support 96k audio


----------



## Bhelpoori

regancipher said:


> if Klipsch did the same as FIIL (stripped the legacy mpeg2 elements from the AAC implementation)


I’m not sure I understand what you have written? To clarify for me: Are you saying that the 1997 version perceptual tools of AAC were removed? If so how does that version of AAC work with e.g. phones that only support those as the current Bluetooth spec allows?


----------



## jant71 (Nov 24, 2021)

regancipher said:


> The T5 II ANC design was submitted to FCC back in January, and at that time only Airoha could support some of the features they included. The Airoha chip used in them is the same as the FIIL CC Pro - if Klipsch did the same as FIIL (stripped the legacy mpeg2 elements from the AAC implementation) then the Qualcomm chip required for aptx support would have given buyers no real advantage in latency or bitrate.
> 
> I'd say a bigger reason for swerving them would be they're already essentially old tech. If you're a Snapdragon 8 chip phone owner, probably best to wait for the wave of qcc5141/51 based buds to filter through. They'll be the first Qualcomm ones to support 96k audio



  They could do just like Aviot....

   " Compatible with "Snapdragon Sound

AVIOT, completely wireless "TE-D01m" updated model. Supports 96kHz / 24bit playback and low delay​ 
        Preceed Japan will release the AVIOT brand active noise canceling complete wireless "TE-D01m2" from late November to mid-December. The price is 14,850 yen        

It is an updated model of " TE-D01m " released last year, and it is compatible with Qualcomm's next-generation platform "Snapdragon Sound" while maintaining its compact size. It is said that 96kHz / 24bit high resolution playback, 32kHz aptX Voice support, improved call quality, and low delay of up to 89ms (0.089 seconds).

In addition, the noise canceling function has also been updated to hybrid active noise canceling. Equipped with a total of four noise-canning microphones, which is twice the size of the previous model, you can enjoy music in a higher-grade silence.       

The driver has also been increased in diameter from the previous model's 6 mm to 10 mm, and a new multi-point function that can be connected to two smartphones at the same time is also installed."

...take it and upgrade it. Not like Klipsch aren't charging a pretty penny for them. A handful of Snapdragon capable models already out for $150 or less.


----------



## darveniza

Still need to wait until Friday but they arrived earlier


----------



## regancipher

jant71 said:


> They could do just like Aviot....
> 
> " Compatible with "Snapdragon Sound
> 
> ...


Yep. M&D, Xiaomi and some others have submitted to FCC too. Some interesting products coming soon.



Bhelpoori said:


> I’m not sure I understand what you have written? To clarify for me: Are you saying that the 1997 version perceptual tools of AAC were removed? If so how does that version of AAC work with e.g. phones that only support those as the current Bluetooth spec allows?


Now you're asking! When I reviewed the FIIL buds I noticed through Bluetooth tweaker that they and some subsequent releases were showing some anomalies in both the AAC and SBC implementations. AAC had a fixed bitrate almost identical to aptx. I did some research at the time, and if I remember correctly one of the aac tools was double-processing, i.e. it was possible to use the mpeg2 AAC-LC element to  parse mpeg4 and vice versa, with the caveat it may cause decoding issues depending on the file. However don't ask me to go into more detail - I'm not a sound engineer, I spotted an oddity during testing, I did some initial digging to find out why and discovered very little to explain what I was seeing so I moved onto the next review 🤣


----------



## lgcubana (Nov 24, 2021)

Amazon has the AirPods Pro on sale $159

Link to Amazon


----------



## darveniza

Violator Mx said:


> Just noticed that Klipsch T5 II ANC don't support aptX, only SBC/AAC. How's that possible when even twice cheaper non-ANC version supports aptX?
> It's a shame, this probably puts them out of my list


I have been underwhelmed by the Klipsch. The tuning is OK but the ANC is lackluster. Would focus on the other ones you have listed better balance cost vs performance


----------



## erockg (Nov 24, 2021)

Got the V-Moda today.  I'm still playing with them.  Bass is heavy.  I dig it.  I have to put the volume up about 85% to get some brain shaking going.  You can EQ it up/down, unless you like it stock.  I'm listening to mostly metal so I'm quite enjoying it.  The case is definitely huge but incredibly light.  It's big to accommodate different modular setups.  You can use hooks, fins, or the neck strap.  The strap is not wired, it's just a strap to dangle them around your neck.  They fit nice.  They're _very_ small.  I swapped the tips out for some others I had.  The OEM tips are thin.  Hate that.  No ANC, Transparency or Volume controls on the buds.  Everything else.  You're buying these for the sound, size and modular aspect.  Nothing else.  They sound full, clean with nice punchy bass.  Soundstage is great.  If you haven't read me already, I love Maiden and Maiden sounds sick on these.  Especially the new album.  I'll keep listening to other genres and report back with any finds.  Here's the manual: https://d2pz7ev4hh4qcl.cloudfront.n..._download/download/5/ucvldhksrybawn348zgi.pdf


----------



## BooleanBones

erockg said:


> Got the V-Moda today.  I'm still playing with them.  Bass is heavy.  I dig it.  I have to put the volume up about 85% to get some brain shaking going.  You can EQ it up/down, unless you like it stock.  I'm listening to mostly metal so I'm quite enjoying it.  The case is definitely huge but incredibly light.  It's big to accommodate different modular setups.  You can use hooks, fins, or the neck strap.  The strap is not wired, it's just a strap to dangle them around your neck.  They fit nice.  They're _very_ small.  I swapped the tips out for some others I had.  The OEM tips are thin.  Hate that.  No ANC, Transparency or Volume controls on the buds.  Everything else.  You're buying these for the sound, size and modular aspect.  Nothing else.  They sound full, clean with nice punchy bass.  Soundstage is great.  If you haven't read me already, I love Maiden and Maiden sounds sick on these.  Especially the new album.  I'll keep listening to other genres and report back with any finds.  Here's the manual: https://d2pz7ev4hh4qcl.cloudfront.n..._download/download/5/ucvldhksrybawn348zgi.pdf


Going to ask Santa for some cargo pants?


----------



## erockg

BooleanBones said:


> Going to ask Santa for some cargo pants?


Nah, I like the look.  It's sexy.  Actually, I have my outdoors buds, so case size isn't always a big deal.  I've been using those Soundcore Frames outdoors with the family.  My wife keeps saying, "Are you listening to something -- ?"  I'm like uh, noooooo.


----------



## SemiAudiophile

lgcubana said:


> Amazon has the AirPods Pro on sale $159
> 
> Link to Amazon


I saw that. The Sony xm4 is going for $248 right now also. If they drop to $200-220 on BF, I might have to pick them up.


----------



## dweaver

Well I just cleared out 1 old headphone and have a couple more hard nibbles on some other TWS I am selling, so I am going to take a chance on the AZ60. The ability to use them on my computer plus phone simultaneously is a big feature for me and I have a sneaking suspicion I might dig the signature since I like the Panasonic over ear ANC headphones I bought and I like the  AZ70.


----------



## Canabuc

dweaver said:


> Well I just cleared out 1 old headphone and have a couple more hard nibbles on some other TWS I am selling, so I am going to take a chance on the AZ60. The ability to use them on my computer plus phone simultaneously is a big feature for me and I have a sneaking suspicion I might dig the signature since I like the Panasonic over ear ANC headphones I bought and I like the  AZ70.


Where will you but it from?


----------



## Tommy C

dweaver said:


> Well I just cleared out 1 old headphone and have a couple more hard nibbles on some other TWS I am selling, so I am going to take a chance on the AZ60. The ability to use them on my computer plus phone simultaneously is a big feature for me and I have a sneaking suspicion I might dig the signature since I like the Panasonic over ear ANC headphones I bought and I like the  AZ70.


I was secretly hoping you will order them lol 
I'm very curious but don't have the time nowadays to order and try them and then a/b/c/d them to other TWS and go through the emotional rollercoaster


----------



## erockg

dweaver said:


> Well I just cleared out 1 old headphone and have a couple more hard nibbles on some other TWS I am selling, so I am going to take a chance on the AZ60. The ability to use them on my computer plus phone simultaneously is a big feature for me and I have a sneaking suspicion I might dig the signature since I like the Panasonic over ear ANC headphones I bought and I like the  AZ70.


I have them.  Managed to (I think) EQ out the sibilance that was bothering me.  I actually really like the fit and the sound signature better than my XM4s that I may rotate out.  Sonys are great but I think the AZ60s are a bit better for what I listen to,


----------



## dweaver (Nov 24, 2021)

I am going to buy from London Drugs tomorrow. From what I have read these will be slightly politer than the AZ70 treble so think they won't be to sibilant for me. Old 50+ year old ears help in that regard LOL.


----------



## erockg

dweaver said:


> I am going to buy from London Drugs tomorrow. From what I have read these will be slightly politer than the AZ70 treble so think they won't be to sibilant for me. Old 50+ year old ears help in that regard LOL.


Right there with you.  It’s the new 20?


----------



## dweaver

I usually use Head-fi classifieds but was getting nowhere so threw everything up on Facebook market place and had 1 item sold in minutes and serious nibbles on 2 more. The Sony stuff is very popular. 

Will be selling that way more often. No shipping hassles, fast responses. Just awesome...


----------



## dweaver

erockg said:


> I have them.  Managed to (I think) EQ out the sibilance that was bothering me.  I actually really like the fit and the sound signature better than my XM4s that I may rotate out.  Sonys are great but I think the AZ60s are a bit better for what I listen to,


I am literally selling off multiple Sony headphones due to their signature being to dark for me. I don't want shouty either but I listen to a lot of older rock and Jazz that need more energy than what Sony is doing these days.


----------



## bladefd

dweaver said:


> I usually use Head-fi classifieds but was getting nowhere so threw everything up on Facebook market place and had 1 item sold in minutes and serious nibbles on 2 more. The Sony stuff is very popular.
> 
> Will be selling that way more often. No shipping hassles, fast responses. Just awesome...


So it's only local pickups through FB marketplace? I never put up anything on there because I'm not too sure about local pickups. Not that I'm paranoid, but I don't like having someone come out after agreeing to a price online then trying to negotiate in person. By selling online, there is no in-person dealing involved. It's either take it at the price listed or don't. It's all impersonal online.


----------



## Tommy C (Nov 25, 2021)

bladefd said:


> So it's only local pickups through FB marketplace? I never put up anything on there because I'm not too sure about local pickups. Not that I'm paranoid, but I don't like having someone come out after agreeing to a price online then trying to negotiate in person. By selling online, there is no in-person dealing involved. It's either take it at the price listed or don't. It's all impersonal online.


Back in the day I used to sell everything locally but now with Marketplace it’s a new ballgame. You either get those who ask “is it still available? and then you never hear from them ever again, or those who come to meet you in person and then trying to negotiate a new price.
I have no patience for either but sometimes I have no choice lol


----------



## Caipirina (Nov 25, 2021)

Ceeluh7 said:


> Fiil T2 Pro is out now.... These guys are killing me man. Gamesky has a new YouTube video about them. As I thought though... These are only available in China at the moment, but I suspect it may stay that way, Kevin "Gamesky" said you can find them on Ali right now. I have never had a Fiil set oddly enough but the T2 Pro look nice. Now He did say that these 'out-of-the-Box' sound warmer and may need some EQ


Ordered on 11.11 managed to coupon the heck out of it down to 69.56$ ... looking fwd to those


----------



## Caipirina

jant71 said:


> They could do just like Aviot....
> 
> " Compatible with "Snapdragon Sound
> 
> ...


I just came here to see if anyone knows anything about Aviot / Snapdragon sound ... having come across THIS listing on amazon.jp with all those fancy hype words, inlcuding 'triple drivers', duralumin material ... but no ANC and 17820 Yen


----------



## Caipirina

lgcubana said:


> Amazon has the AirPods Pro on sale $159
> 
> Link to Amazon


already 'cureently unavailable'


----------



## lgcubana

Caipirina said:


> already 'cureently unavailable'


There are dueling listings on Amazon.  The link that I provided still works


----------



## Bhelpoori

regancipher said:


> Now you're asking! When I reviewed the FIIL buds I noticed through Bluetooth tweaker that they and some subsequent releases were showing some anomalies in both the AAC and SBC implementations. AAC had a fixed bitrate almost identical to aptx. I did some research at the time, and if I remember correctly one of the aac tools was double-processing, i.e. it was possible to use the mpeg2 AAC-LC element to  parse mpeg4 and vice versa, with the caveat it may cause decoding issues depending on the file. However don't ask me to go into more detail - I'm not a sound engineer, I spotted an oddity during testing, I did some initial digging to find out why and discovered very little to explain what I was seeing so I moved onto the next review 🤣



Thank you, I think I understand now. Let me explain from a Bluetooth protocol perspective for AAC and hopefully make some sense of this:

Bluetooth uses the A2DP specification for delivering music on top of the various Bluetooth radio protocols (aka 4.x and 5.x). A2DP is an old standard that is being replaced with a (large) set of protocols/specifications branded as "LE-Audio." In the standard you have for "AAC":
1. Negotiation between e.g phone and TWS to see what is acceptable
2. Encoding/decoding
3. Wrapping the encoded sound in a format able to be sent over the radio protocol (technically: the media payload format)

In this case, I believe that the sound was being decoded using the 1997/1st specification of AAC (sometimes called MPEG-2 AAC, which isn't quite the later defined AAC-LC profile BTW). This is common in virtually all of the TWS since that is now out of protection so is free.

What is being referred to is the wrapping of the encoded sound (4.5.4 in the A2DP 1.3.2 spec) and what is needed to change the format of the stream to fit into the wrapping format. This is normal stuff, though granted the specification is a bit vague, so someone coming new to this may make some errors. It also isn't a "file" problem but between the bluetooth driver in the e.g. phone and the bluetooth decoder in the TWS. The only issue could be that the decoder in the TWS can't retransform the stream into a format the "AAC" decoder can use, but that would result in horridness easily picked up.

What isn't normal is fixed bit rate AAC. The TWS as the Bluetooth decoder must support variable bit rate "AAC" or it is not compliant with the spec. In other words, if the encoder decides to do variable bit rate in (1) then TWS must accept and decode it. 

"AAC" being the same bitrate as AptX is possible from the spec viewpoint but again, it the encoder that determines the rate (all the TWS can do is reject it). In my experience this sounds a bit high as https://www.aptx.com/aptx says 384Kbps and on TWS the "AAC" encoding is normally VBR around 200 Kbps. If you have a decoder (TWS) that can only do constant bit rate and not variable bit rate then you will get glitches though for some content I'm pretty sure you won't notice it.

Also, you'll note I put AAC in quotes. This is because AAC is a spec that has constantly evolved since the first one in 1997 and AAC refers to the whole specification which is a toolbox of many, many, many tools. You implement a profile of AAC (as with other MPEG based specifications like the video ones) and that's what you refer to, so just saying "AAC" for an implementation is meaningless from an engineer or sound quality/bit perspective. Sadly, the Bluetooth A2DP spec, which is coming up for 20 years old, was done at a time when AAC was way less complicated so was also imprecise with wording to further compound this issue.


----------



## Canabuc

Good deals on the Technics but the stores are such that there are restocking fees or no returns when opened.
Want to get them but worried fit won't be good.
I often have fit issues with buds and afraid to gamble despite them being on sale.


----------



## Tstorey

So in a straight fight between the Jabra Elite 75t and 85t where would your money go? Some cracking Amazon deals on both but I struggle with fit as a rule (M&D MW07 sound amazing the 1% of the time I can get them to stay put…) Source is mainly amazon music HD via an iPhone.

Thanks in advance


----------



## dweaver

Canabuc said:


> Good deals on the Technics but the stores are such that there are restocking fees or no returns when opened.
> Want to get them but worried fit won't be good.
> I often have fit issues with buds and afraid to gamble despite them being on sale.


I hear you there. Returns in Canada really suck. I had good luck with the AZ70 though so for me this is less of a gamble.


----------



## dweaver

Sold my WH-1000XM3, Have someone coming at 5:30 for the WF-1000XM3, 9am someone coming for the CX-400BT, and have multiple pings on the WF-X700. So aside from taking a bath on all that gear compared to what I paid I am feeling darn good today and will be paying for the AZ60 with reclaimed money versus new money.

Feels good to clear out some of that gear. was really starting to have to much in the house. I am seriously thinking of selling off a couple of my full size wired headphones (Sony MDR Z7 and Nighthawks) both excellent headphones but I rarely listen with wired connections these days...


----------



## Juturna

I want to warn any possible SoundPeats H1 owners who downloads their app to NOT try their adaptive EQ test.

After going through the test, letting them know if you hear a series of beeps or not, I played some music and for some reason it seems like they have NO volume limiter so the sound was not only distorted, it was so loud that I right now possess some way louder than usual ringing in my ears where my ears feel kinda weird and crap, and it hurt like a mother****er, i ripped them out of my ears as fast as I could but alas the damage had already been done. The volume wasn't even cranked to the max at all....

If I was American (which i'm not) and SoundPeats wasn't a chinese company (which... it is) I'd consider suing their asses because that was honestly one of the most painful volume experiences I've ever had.


----------



## Tommy C

Juturna said:


> I want to warn any possible SoundPeats H1 owners who downloads their app to NOT try their adaptive EQ test.
> 
> After going through the test, letting them know if you hear a series of beeps or not, I played some music and for some reason it seems like they have NO volume limiter so the sound was not only distorted, it was so loud that I right now possess some way louder than usual ringing in my ears where my ears feel kinda weird and crap, and it hurt like a mother****er, i ripped them out of my ears as fast as I could but alas the damage had already been done. The volume wasn't even cranked to the max at all....
> 
> If I was American (which i'm not) and SoundPeats wasn't a chinese company (which... it is) I'd consider suing their asses because that was honestly one of the most painful volume experiences I've ever had.


This is horrible. So sorry to hear that. 
I hope it’s not a permanent damage and you bounce back quickly.


----------



## regancipher

Bhelpoori said:


> Thank you, I think I understand now. Let me explain from a Bluetooth protocol perspective for AAC and hopefully make some sense of this:
> 
> Bluetooth uses the A2DP specification for delivering music on top of the various Bluetooth radio protocols (aka 4.x and 5.x). A2DP is an old standard that is being replaced with a (large) set of protocols/specifications branded as "LE-Audio." In the standard you have for "AAC":
> 1. Negotiation between e.g phone and TWS to see what is acceptable
> ...


Yep, you're quite right


----------



## dweaver

Well my day started great, sold some old gear, one $60 on the lottery. The. I get a phone call, my garage was broken in to, they stole my summer tires and possibly some other bits and bobs, now going to have replace the tires this spring plus new rims and sensors, so there goes 2G, looking in to insurance but in any case it sucks...

Going to be selling those 2 big headphones just to help cover expenses... Good news is I have the winter to save up for the tires. Might just not bother with the sensors... Will see...


----------



## Tommy C

dweaver said:


> Well my day started great, sold some old gear, one $60 on the lottery. The. I get a phone call, my garage was broken in to, they stole my summer tires and possibly some other bits and bobs, now going to have replace the tires this spring plus new rims and sensors, so there goes 2G, looking in to insurance but in any case it sucks...
> 
> Going to be selling those 2 big headphones just to help cover expenses... Good news is I have the winter to save up for the tires. Might just not bother with the sensors... Will see...


Bummer man, sorry to hear that.


----------



## Juturna

Tommy C said:


> This is horrible. So sorry to hear that.
> I hope it’s not a permanent damage and you bounce back quickly.


Thank you. i think it'll be fine honestly but it might take awhile for it to go back completely.


----------



## Violator Mx

I've got a 20% discount on ebay for multiple items including some of the earbuds, so now I can consider, for example, Shure Aonic Free which are $160 with coupon in brand new sealed condition. Are these good enough to sacrifice ANC (which I don't really *need* but would be nice to have)? Are they better than Sennheiser CX Plus ($120), Klipsch T5 II ANC($91), Technics AZ70($90), Sony XM4($200)?


----------



## dj24 (Nov 25, 2021)

Tstorey said:


> So in a straight fight between the Jabra Elite 75t and 85t where would your money go? Some cracking Amazon deals on both but I struggle with fit as a rule (M&D MW07 sound amazing the 1% of the time I can get them to stay put…) Source is mainly amazon music HD via an iPhone.
> 
> Thanks in advance


Jabra Elite 75t IMHO.  And if you're amenable to the funky light beige/ gold color (also have black and grey)- they're a steal for a measly $64 at target right now.


----------



## dweaver

Tommy C said:


> Bummer man, sorry to hear that.


Thanks Tommy, I had good news when I got home! Turns out the tires were still there. It actually looks like they never took much of anything, thank God. So replaced the door knob with a higher quality lock and will hope that they leave us the hell alone.


----------



## dweaver (Nov 25, 2021)

AZ60 ordered!!! The site said 5-15 days, hopefully they will be here fast


----------



## Canabuc

Tempted to buy while on sale. Is nice price. Too bad Amazon doesn't price match


----------



## SciOC

Ok.  Decided to start watching movies in bed on my phone with wireless IEMs.  The dongle I have is less than ideal...  Want a cheap, ok, easy, TWS...  What's a good starter set, KZ SK10, kz z1 pro?   Others?  Trying to keep it cheap and basically for this sole purpose...  Sick of the dongle.


----------



## Tommy C

SciOC said:


> Ok.  Decided to start watching movies in bed on my phone with wireless IEMs.  The dongle I have is less than ideal...  Want a cheap, ok, easy, TWS...  What's a good starter set, KZ SK10, kz z1 pro?   Others?  Trying to keep it cheap and basically for this sole purpose...  Sick of the dongle.



My vote goes to the Fiil T1XS. You can often find them on Amazon for $50 and 40% off coupon which brings the price down to $27. The have low latency mode so great for watching videos and stuff and they sound awesome and punch above their weight.


----------



## Tstorey

dj24 said:


> Jabra Elite 75t IMHO.  And if you're amenable to the funky light beige/ gold color (also have black and grey)- they're a steal for a measly $64 at target right now.


Thanks, what makes you go for the 75t if you don’t mind me asking?(sadly UK based so can't take advantage of target)


----------



## dj24 (Nov 26, 2021)

^^^^ Here's my take from one of my older posts in this thread..



Spoiler: My review



Quote :
I agree with you. A bit of tinkering in the sound+ app where you lower the base a a smidge or two and increase the mids and treble a bit and they sound great...

I'm probably in the minority here but one thing that's not talked about as much about TWS is long term comfort. I'm on constant non stop Cisco jabber VOIP work calls 8-10 hours straight with one or maybe two 20 minute breaks during my entire shift. We are "definitely not there yet" if you're me once you get to the 5-6 hour mark and your ears start feeling like someone is bench pressing on them. The 75t Active is the first TWS that I have owned that are truly comfortable for my loong work marathon call sessions and even then I initially almost gave up on them when I first tried them on. The quality of their stock silicone tips (although a perfect fit for me in the smallest size) are just horrendous and a calling for an immediate allergy reaction/ ear infection. Those things itch and burn like you would never imagine possible once you get to the 4 hour mark. The crazy thing is that they feel excellent for the first 3 hours or so. What the hell is that about? I almost sent them back when luckily I saw @ AudioNoob post a link to his 75t review on this thread recommending the Spinfit 360s and 1025s for them. I got the 360s and with them they feel as smooth as silk for the entire 8-10 hours I have them on and haven't looked back since then.

Fun fact. Most TWS manufacturers truly exaggerate when they list the specs for their battery life. For my work call scenario they're usually off by about 1-2 hours. The 75t Active's truly live up to their 7.5 hour mark and I've actually managed to squeeze an extra 8-10 minutes on top of that a few times. They are truly a swiss army knife that excel at everything you throw at them. Their multipoint is the gold standard when it comes to handling VOIP and regular cell networks without dropping either one of them. I also usually run about 5 miles a day after work and their IP57 rating is flawless. I sweat excessively and unfortunately for me everything goes down the side of my head and my ears right into them. I've lost count of the number of IPX7 TWS (mostly Chi-fi) where they've stopped working only after 4-5 months due to sweat degradation and minerals/ oils affecting them over time. 8 months in and the 75t Active's still look and sound brand new. In fact there was an ebay code a few days ago ( didn't last very long) that dropped their price down to just $57 that I managed to get on and order an extra set. These ones will strictly be for work and I'll relegate my current ones to outside use and my workouts. I feel like I've committed highway robbery by getting these at such a ridiculous price and suggest everyone grab one without thinking about it too much if they go back down in the $60 range.

I know there are a few people here lurking and waiting for the mighty all in one and I say to all of you look no further for now. For their current $75 asking price here @ target and just $85 for the same version but with wireless charging- they do it all. Good to great sound quality (not excellent or close to current reference TWS by any means), reference multipoint and excellent battery life, true IP57 protection for running and swimming (yes, I've done that), Excellent call quality (reference once you add the jabra link 370/ 380 to the mix if you use a computer for music or work calls), good ANC, very good hear through, reference app customization and likewise for both the left/ right earbuds. The downsides that I can think of are just far and few. Left earbud is a slave to the right one so not independent by itself (I never understood why this is a big deal for most people if you can use the right one), bloated bass (which I truly believe is one that applies to the regular 75t and not to the slightly differently tuned 75t active which while is still much out of the box is definitely not bloated and can be tamed in the sound+ app) and finally the amount of refurbs floating out there. This last one is frankly one I have no answer for. I can only speculate that quality control is an issue when they're brand new or people like to abuse the return process. I'm sure it honestly falls somewhere between the two. At the same time I have bought 12-15 or so of these for coworkers, family and friends (all Jabra refurbs) all within the last few months and not one has gone bad so far. If you're worried about this just purchase them online @ Target and return them in store within 30 days no questions asked. Oh yeah and currently Jabra automatically upgrades your warranty from 6 months for the refurbs to a full 2 years if you register them in the sound core app.

Enough said. I'm starting to sound like a kid who just discovered candy for the first time


----------



## Tstorey

dj24 said:


> ^^^^ Here's my take from one of my older posts in this thread..
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Thanks for that, much appreciated


----------



## Bobbetybob

If anyone has Unidays in the UK the Sennheiser site has 50% off on a lot of great stuff, including stock of the CX400BT for £45 with the 50% off. 

I picked up the 560S and the CX400BT for £130.


----------



## Bhelpoori

regancipher said:


> Yep, you're quite right


Thank you. Two final comments: The reported latency looks pretty good and the bitrate is way higher than you’ll find on Android or on the Apple side of the house: I guess that is good but would wonder whether it affected TWS battery life, guess it is time for me to check out the Windows Bluetooth AAC stack…


----------



## chinmie

SciOC said:


> Ok.  Decided to start watching movies in bed on my phone with wireless IEMs.  The dongle I have is less than ideal...  Want a cheap, ok, easy, TWS...  What's a good starter set, KZ SK10, kz z1 pro?   Others?  Trying to keep it cheap and basically for this sole purpose...  Sick of the dongle.





Tommy C said:


> My vote goes to the Fiil T1XS. You can often find them on Amazon for $50 and 40% off coupon which brings the price down to $27. The have low latency mode so great for watching videos and stuff and they sound awesome and punch above their weight.



i haven't heard the T1XS, but I just got my friend's Soundpeats H1, SE3, and Fiil T1 Lite to try out, and i really like the T1 Lite the most as a whole package. The H1 is arguably has a better SQ and technical driver capabilities, but personally i prefer the T1 Lite tuning better. The H1 can get harsh on the treble sometimes, and the T1 Lite has a more coherent soundstage. 



On the side note, i compared the H1 to the Tronsmart Onyx Prime, and they're surprisingly have similar SQ capabilities, but i much prefer the Onyx Prime better than the H1. I'm using the "Hifi" preset of the Prime, and adjusted a bit by lowering the bass  (first slider) and adding the mids more (third slider)


----------



## petridish

Bobbetybob said:


> If anyone has Unidays in the UK the Sennheiser site has 50% off on a lot of great stuff, including stock of the CX400BT for £45 with the 50% off.
> 
> I picked up the 560S and the CX400BT for £130.


Interesting thanks! Anyone know how easy it is to try in ears and then return them to Senn? I'd like to see how I get on with some true wireless buds but don't want to commit if there's restrictions on returns for hygiene reasons. Thanks


----------



## BooleanBones

Couldn't help myself this morning when I noticed the new Denons show up on their US website. Took a flyer on the AH-C830NCW to see what they sound like. Will post when I get them and take them for a spin.


----------



## Tommy C

BooleanBones said:


> Couldn't help myself this morning when I noticed the new Denons show up on their US website. Took a flyer on the AH-C830NCW to see what they sound like. Will post when I get them and take them for a spin.


I always liked Denon and their headphones. Only thing I can't figure out is the features, the touch control location and if it's through an app or the TWS, so I'm glad you placed your order and looking forward to read your impression when you get them. 

The More Comfobuds Pro have the touch control on the stem, towards the end and it's very good but takes a bit of time to get used to.


----------



## erockg (Nov 26, 2021)

So today I'm pitting the V-Moda Hexamove Pro against the KEF Mu3 while we recover from our Thanksgiving comas here.  The sub bass on the Hexamove Pro is just awesome.  Head shaking.  I'd say the KEF have slightly better instrument separation, but I'm guessing the sub-bass on the V-Moda's are just hiding the separation.  Not a HUGE difference at all.  Few things that bug me about the V-Moda - no transparency, no volume controls (I can live with) and the case is _huge, _but it's huge because you can keep all the modular fittings in the case which is kinda cool.  No wireless charging.  All this said, the sound is just big, sub-bass heavy and you can EQ it.  The buds are smaller than the KEF.  The V-Moda are also $70 cheaper than the KEF.  Yes, the KEF have transparency and ANC, but it's just so weak, it's negligible in this comparison.  Passive isolation on the V-Moda is decent.  Bluetooth on the V-Moda is not at strong as the KEF.  Walking around our house, certain walls would interfere with the V's whereas the KEY had no issue.  The KEF fit great, pretty much perfect for me.  Case is smaller.  The mids, more toward the highs are much brighter than the V-Moda, but I'm sure I can EQ that into the V-Moda.  For me, I'm leaning toward returning the KEF to save the $70 that I'll need to pay for the AirPods Max I scored a great Black Friday deal on.  Ugh.  Sorry that I'm all over the map here, just want to get a few thoughts out about the V-Moda buds for some of you while they're fresh.

Edit:  Forgot to mention, the V-Moda's seem to have multipoint.  I connected them to my iPhone and Computer and they connect to at least two devices at once.  I see no mention of this anywhere.


----------



## Violator Mx

Do the Sennheiser CX Plus have a *High-End Sound Tuning Mode* in the app like the MTW2?
I'm a little bit stuck... With the discount coupon the Sennheiser CX Plus, Sennheiser MTW2 and Shure Aonic Free all seem a great buy, and I don't know which one to choose ¯\_(ツ)_/¯


----------



## erockg

Violator Mx said:


> Do the Sennheiser CX Plus have a *High-End Sound Tuning Mode* in the app like the MTW2?
> I'm a little bit stuck... With the discount coupon the Sennheiser CX Plus, Sennheiser MTW2 and Shure Aonic Free all seem a great buy, and I don't know which one to choose ¯\_(ツ)_/¯


Sadly, they do not.  Personally, out of all those, I find the Shure Free sounded the best and I use them often.


----------



## Tommy C

erockg said:


> Sadly, they do not.  Personally, out of all those, I find the Shure Free sounded the best and I use them often.


How’s the sq of the Shure Free and Vs. Shure TW2?


----------



## JoshG1217

So I picked up lypertak z7, grado 220, b and o eq, and b and w whatever. None are as good as the wf 1000 xm4. I'm pretty surprised by this, as I think the Sony over ear are terrible. I used the Azla sedna medium and they sound really good. As good as z1r? No, but way more convenient. Highly recommend. Sounded better than all the others plus better anc. Seems end game for the time being. Did the same thing with over ear and its the Shure Aonic 50 there, but their tws adapters are no good. Muddy as he'll even with the z1r, but that's very source dependent.


----------



## erockg

Tommy C said:


> How’s the sq of the Shure Free and Vs. Shure TW2?


That'll depends on what Shure IEM you put on the TW2.  I have the SE846 on the TW2 Second gen and they're amazing.  If I were to buy the TW2, get the adapters without the SE215s and then add an upgraded IEM to them.  The function of the Free and TW2 both act the same as far as controls, EQ and Transparency controls.


----------



## Tommy C

erockg said:


> That'll depends on what Shure IEM you put on the TW2.  I have the SE846 on the TW2 Second gen and they're amazing.  If I were to buy the TW2, get the adapters without the SE215s and then add an upgraded IEM to them.  The function of the Free and TW2 both act the same as far as controls, EQ and Transparency controls.


I’m sure it’s amazing with the SE846. 
How about stock with the SE215 Vs. the Free?


----------



## dweaver

OK, I know I have the AZ60 on the way but have a crazy urge to try the WF-SP800N. They are on sale from Visions for $78 and I have a $30+ gift card I need to use up from Visions. So this brings the price down $35-40. I bought the WF-C500 but find the physical button a bit to stiff for my liking (painful) in my right ear.

Any thoughts/experience on these? Sure not worth the original retail but at this price point would they be a good bass head option for me?


----------



## erockg

Tommy C said:


> I’m sure it’s amazing with the SE846.
> How about stock with the SE215 Vs. the Free?


I don't have the SE215 anymore to compare.  But I do enjoy the Free.  I alternate between the Free and the TW2 with the SE846.  I'd say if you only want one pair, go with the TW2 Second gen so you have the modular option of other Shure IEMs.  If you don't care about that, then go Free.  I'm not sure if what is in the Free is the same as the SE215 or something newer.  Maybe that info is online somewhere.


----------



## Tommy C

erockg said:


> I don't have the SE215 anymore to compare.  But I do enjoy the Free.  I alternate between the Free and the TW2 with the SE846.  I'd say if you only want one pair, go with the TW2 Second gen so you have the modular option of other Shure IEMs.  If you don't care about that, then go Free.  I'm not sure if what is in the Free is the same as the SE215 or something newer.  Maybe that info is online somewhere.



That's what I was thinking. I don't need another TWS but see the TW2 on sale on Amazon in Canada and I have the UE900 to pair them up with.
Thanks!


----------



## erockg

Tommy C said:


> That's what I was thinking. I don't need another TWS but see the TW2 on sale on Amazon in Canada and I have the UE900 to pair them up with.
> Thanks!


The only thing is that I can't confirm that the TW2 will fit the UE's.  Also, make sure they're the TW2 Second Gen.  The first gen had bt issues and no volume control.


----------



## Tommy C

dweaver said:


> OK, I know I have the AZ60 on the way but have a crazy urge to try the WF-SP800N. They are on sale from Visions for $78 and I have a $30+ gift card I need to use up from Visions. So this brings the price down $35-40. I bought the WF-C500 but find the physical button a bit to stiff for my liking (painful) in my right ear.
> 
> Any thoughts/experience on these? Sure not worth the original retail but at this price point would they be a good bass head option for me?



My colleague has the WF-SP800N. He likes them but he's an average guy when it comes to sound so I don't put too much weight in it lol
Visions also has the JBL Live Pro+ for $150 and I think it's a good deal. 
The thing with JBL I don't really get their hierarchy of the TWS. At one point the JBL Live Pro+ were the flagship...


----------



## Tommy C

erockg said:


> The only thing is that I can't confirm that the TW2 will fit the UE's.  Also, make sure they're the TW2 Second Gen.  The first gen had bt issues and no volume control.



Good point. Thanks! and yeah, it's the 2nd gen


----------



## BooleanBones

erockg said:


> So today I'm pitting the V-Moda Hexamove Pro against the KEF Mu3 while we recover from our Thanksgiving comas here.  The sub bass on the Hexamove Pro is just awesome.  Head shaking.  I'd say the KEF have slightly better instrument separation, but I'm guessing the sub-bass on the V-Moda's are just hiding the separation.  Not a HUGE difference at all.  Few things that bug me about the V-Moda - no transparency, no volume controls (I can live with) and the case is _huge, _but it's huge because you can keep all the modular fittings in the case which is kinda cool.  No wireless charging.  All this said, the sound is just big, sub-bass heavy and you can EQ it.  The buds are smaller than the KEF.  The V-Moda are also $70 cheaper than the KEF.  Yes, the KEF have transparency and ANC, but it's just so weak, it's negligible in this comparison.  Passive isolation on the V-Moda is decent.  Bluetooth on the V-Moda is not at strong as the KEF.  Walking around our house, certain walls would interfere with the V's whereas the KEY had no issue.  The KEF fit great, pretty much perfect for me.  Case is smaller.  The mids, more toward the highs are much brighter than the V-Moda, but I'm sure I can EQ that into the V-Moda.  For me, I'm leaning toward returning the KEF to save the $70 that I'll need to pay for the AirPods Max I scored a great Black Friday deal on.  Ugh.  Sorry that I'm all over the map here, just want to get a few thoughts out about the V-Moda buds for some of you while they're fresh.
> 
> Edit:  Forgot to mention, the V-Moda's seem to have multipoint.  I connected them to my iPhone and Computer and they connect to at least two devices at once.  I see no mention of this anywhere.


You also failed to mention the added "attention" getting perk that is included with the V-Moda's. You're set


----------



## erockg

Tommy C said:


> Good point. Thanks! and yeah, it's the 2nd gen


Here's a size comparison pic of the Free vs the TW2 for you!


----------



## erockg

BooleanBones said:


> You also failed to mention the added "attention" getting perk that is included with the V-Moda's. You're set


You dirty old man.


----------



## dweaver (Nov 26, 2021)

I need to buy something like I need a hole in the head, so I am watching my pennies like a hawk LOL. Might give these a whirl since its under $50 all said and done. Will be my last Sony for a while though if I do it.


----------



## Markttp (Nov 26, 2021)

petridish said:


> Interesting thanks! Anyone know how easy it is to try in ears and then return them to Senn? I'd like to see how I get on with some true wireless buds but don't want to commit if there's restrictions on returns for hygiene reasons. Thanks


Not sure if the offer finishes in 15 mins (midnight UK time), but in case it still helps, I have tried and returned in ears which I bought from Sennheiser direct about 2 months ago.

They were in perfect condition when returned, but they had no problem with them having been tried.

(After a moment of madness considering the HD800S, thankfully met with an OOS message, I re-purchased the CX plus inears for £65 ($87), because I thought this represented good value.)


----------



## Tommy C

erockg said:


> Here's a size comparison pic of the Free vs the TW2 for you!



Dang! two different beast! I wish there was a place I could demo them both. 
Yeah, there is Amazon but I was hoping to skip that route lol
Thanks again, much appreciated.


----------



## Canabuc

dweaver said:


> OK, I know I have the AZ60 on the way but have a crazy urge to try the WF-SP800N. They are on sale from Visions for $78 and I have a $30+ gift card I need to use up from Visions. So this brings the price down $35-40. I bought the WF-C500 but find the physical button a bit to stiff for my liking (painful) in my right ear.
> 
> Any thoughts/experience on these? Sure not worth the original retail but at this price point would they be a good bass head option for me?


Read they were very bass heavy


----------



## darveniza

So now that my ear treatment is done, Samsung earbuds will be stored and not used anymore. Cannot trust them until someone can shows that this unrelated, but I did do a test with new tips and within 5 minutes my ear were itching with the Samsund Pro earbuds

In any case played a bit with the Audio Technica ATH CKS50TW (AT) and the JVC-Victor HA 1000T ( JV) and just wanted to share a few items for now:

Case:

AT is larger than the JV
JV reminds me a bit of the B&O EQ , but placing the JV earbuds in the case is better than the B&O
No wireless charging
Comparison below Soundcore and B&O EQ






Fit:

AT the body and nozzle are in such an angle that allows for good insertion, they are easy on and off
The JVC basically insert and twist
No issue with fit between both, just remember to twis with the JV
Sizing compared in pictures below with Soundcore and B&O EQ











App:

None for the JVC, which is a bummer
AT app is pretty complete and includes I think what you expect the most. Some screen shots below












Controls:

AT uses a physical button that allows you to manage everything
JV uses touch control which allows you to manage all aspects. A few things that I found interesting is that you have an option of just tapping once the R side and it will leave music running but lower the volume as to have a quick chat, press again and it returns to normal
With both earbus you can leave one in the case and listen to call or music
The controls in JV are really explained on their website and have additional features that I have not tested (https://manual3.jvckenwood.com/accessory/headphones/contents/ha-fw1000t/jp/BONDSYthzzviki.php)
Once you play the 1st time with the JV , they are easy to recall
Both are very responsive
Sound:

Will annoy some people but both of these sound better in my opinion than the Klipsch T5ii
AT sounds close to the TW2 for certain songs, but I have been playing with the EQ which is easy to play with
JV Sound feel warmer/not as bright ( if I can describe it as such) than the AT and the soundcore. (Remember no EQ)
JV Mid Range is very good
JV needs additional volume than the AT and Soundcore
Will keep testing


----------



## Burakk

Hey guys, I’m looking for a tws. I would like to have superb call experience. Is there any consensus as an all rounder? /money is no object/


----------



## dweaver

Canabuc said:


> Read they were very bass heavy


Thanks Canabuc, I like bass but not excessive bass. I will ruminate on that and likely just pass. Can use that gift card any time, no rush...


----------



## BooleanBones

darveniza said:


> So now that my ear treatment is done, Samsung earbuds will be stored and not used anymore. Cannot trust them until someone can shows that this unrelated, but I did do a test with new tips and within 5 minutes my ear were itching with the Samsund Pro earbuds
> 
> In any case played a bit with the Audio Technica ATH CKS50TW (AT) and the JVC-Victor HA 1000T ( JV) and just wanted to share a few items for now:
> 
> ...


Nicely done. Nice comparison with the EQs as a baseline. I know you are being cautious, but if you test volume levels between the two at all, keep me posted.


----------



## jant71 (Nov 26, 2021)

darveniza said:


> So now that my ear treatment is done, Samsung earbuds will be stored and not used anymore. Cannot trust them until someone can shows that this unrelated, but I did do a test with new tips and within 5 minutes my ear were itching with the Samsund Pro earbuds
> 
> In any case played a bit with the Audio Technica ATH CKS50TW (AT) and the JVC-Victor HA 1000T ( JV) and just wanted to share a few items for now:
> 
> ...


Nice impressions so far. The AT need some run in for the bass to settle. Not as articulate and more closer to one note early on. I noticed the AT are more bright than the first Victor FXT100 and the previous AT I had. AT has the same thing I think. R has quick hear-through that lowers the volume and on the L it doesn't change the volume when you turn it on. I would rather both models pause the music on the R side quick mode instead of volume lowering.

Not liking that volume thing for the Victor. That would be a no go for me but I chose the AT anyhow.

@darveniza  is the JVC ANC any good?


----------



## cresny

regancipher said:


> Some new reviews from me:
> 
> QCY T13
> QCY T17
> ...


I'm thinking of getting the elevocs. So sorry I missed the early bird price! Reading about glitches now makes me wary. How have yours fared since then?


----------



## Tommy C

Ok something odd happened. I updated my iPhone to iOS 15 and the sound output via Bluetooth has changed. Now the sound quality on the 1MORE Comfobuds Pro took a hit while the Sennheiser CX 400BT sound MUCH better…I can’t explain it but I’m a bit puzzled. Anyone else noticed something similar after upgrading to iOS 15?


----------



## darveniza

jant71 said:


> Nice impressions so far. The AT need some run in for the bass to settle. Not as articulate and more closer to one note early on. I noticed the AT are more bright than the first Victor FXT100 and the previous AT I had. AT has the same thing I think. R has quick hear-through that lowers the volume and on the L it doesn't change the volume when you turn it on. I would rather both models pause the music on the R side quick mode instead of volume lowering.
> 
> Not liking that volume thing for the Victor. That would be a no go for me but I chose the AT anyhow.
> 
> @darveniza  is the JVC ANC any good?


Still figuring out the ANC , I think is OK but feel the B&O EQ is better


----------



## BooleanBones

Tommy C said:


> Ok something odd happened. I updated my iPhone to iOS 15 and the sound output via Bluetooth has changed. Now the sound quality on the 1MORE Comfobuds Pro took a hit while the Sennheiser CX 400BT sound MUCH better…I can’t explain it but I’m a bit puzzled. Anyone else noticed something similar after upgrading to iOS 15?


I have not noticed anything as distinguishable as what you mention.


----------



## Tommy C

BooleanBones said:


> I have not noticed anything as distinguishable as what you mention.


Thanks.  I have another iPhone, same model that is still running iOS 14 so going to try it and then update... err fun times.
Unless there is something wrong with the 1More and then listening to the Sennheiser for the rest of the day, it might be my brain plays tricks on me!


----------



## Ceeluh7

Has anyone here had any experience with the B&O E8 Sport? I've seen good reviews but wondering if any of you have had a chance to try them


----------



## erockg

Ceeluh7 said:


> Has anyone here had any experience with the B&O E8 Sport? I've seen good reviews but wondering if any of you have had a chance to try them


Yes, I truly loved them.  I will say, I prefer my EQs much more.  But for that sale price I've seen this weekend, the sports are great.  I preferred them better than the standard E8 3rd gen.  I actually got a better fit with the sport over the standard.  Sound is your typical B&O sound.  EQs sound better IMO, but the E8 still have that great sub-bass I've always enjoyed with B&O.


----------



## Ceeluh7

erockg said:


> Yes, I truly loved them.  I will say, I prefer my EQs much more.  But for that sale price I've seen this weekend, the sports are great.  I preferred them better than the standard E8 3rd gen.  I actually got a better fit with the sport over the standard.  Sound is your typical B&O sound.  EQs sound better IMO, but the E8 still have that great sub-bass I've always enjoyed with B&O.


Ha... You saw the same sale that I did.. Lol. Ya man I haven't tried out the EQ yet but I have about 250 to spend on a set at the moment. Wrestling with getting these. I heard the e8 3.0 were somewhat of a disappointment. How's the volume on the sport? If you remember


----------



## erockg

Ceeluh7 said:


> Ha... You saw the same sale that I did.. Lol. Ya man I haven't tried out the EQ yet but I have about 250 to spend on a set at the moment. Wrestling with getting these. I heard the e8 3.0 were somewhat of a disappointment. How's the volume on the sport? If you remember


Same as all the B&O.  They don't get as loud for some, but I have the EQs and a lot here love them like me.  I truly love the sound signature of the EQs and the ANC works well here when I'm wfh.  They're a step up from the E8 3g IMO, but I'm looking at grabbing the sports again because they're a great BF deal and I have a Best Buy gift card burning a hole in my pocket!  If you can return them, I'd totally take a shot on the Sports if you don't want to go for the EQ.


----------



## Ceeluh7

erockg said:


> Same as all the B&O.  They don't get as loud for some, but I have the EQs and a lot here love them like me.  I truly love the sound signature of the EQs and the ANC works well here when I'm wfh.  They're a step up from the E8 3g IMO, but I'm looking at grabbing the sports again because they're a great BF deal and I have a Best Buy gift card burning a hole in my pocket!  If you can return them, I'd totally take a shot on the Sports if you don't want to go for the EQ.


I have a few sets in mind. I kind of want to check out the Nuratrue... $180. Nuarl N6 pro 2 is on sale for $106. I have never tried out the M&d Mw07 Plus which are on sale as well. Actually it seems everything is on sale rn and I'm have a tough time deciding. I'm seeking SQ above all else.


----------



## erockg

Ceeluh7 said:


> I have a few sets in mind. I kind of want to check out the Nuratrue... $180. Nuarl N6 pro 2 is on sale for $106. I have never tried out the M&d Mw07 Plus which are on sale as well. Actually it seems everything is on sale rn and I'm have a tough time deciding. I'm seeking SQ above all else.


I’ve had all of those lol.  I would say my biggest issues with all those were the fit.  I loved the sound on the Nuratrue but still prefer B&O features and build quality etc.


----------



## Ceeluh7

erockg said:


> I’ve had all of those lol.  I would say my biggest issues with all those were the fit.  I loved the sound on the Nuratrue but still prefer B&O features and build quality etc.


LOL... Dude... This is why this is the only place anyone should ever go for tws advice. Ha. I'm leaning toward the Nuratrue and hoping there is not a fit issue but the e8 sport price is intriguing for sure


----------



## erockg

Ceeluh7 said:


> LOL... Dude... This is why this is the only place anyone should ever go for tws advice. Ha. I'm leaning toward the Nuratrue and hoping there is not a fit issue but the e8 sport price is intriguing for sure


The NTs definitely feel cheap in comparison but I will admit they sound great.  I would still get the EQs 😂


----------



## davescleveland

I have bought way too many tws. At the end of the day I actually use and enjoy just a few

Sennheiser momentum 2
Geekfly gf8s (ordered  the 10 today)
Nuratrue
Akg n400


So all the fiil sets, levis, helm, etc, just don't get any play. Those 4 are the tops in terms of sound quality and volume. I don't care about bells and whistles, just sound and fit. That's all.  Also the ring epsb for a true audiophile old school Bluetooth experience


----------



## Ceeluh7

davescleveland said:


> I have bought way too many tws. At the end of the day I actually use and enjoy just a few
> 
> Sennheiser momentum 2
> Geekfly gf8s (ordered  the 10 today)
> ...


How would you compare volume levels of the Nuratrue and the mtw2? I heard after an update the Nuratrue volume level increased. Like you I have a ton of tws and I'm just looking for a very good SQ set. Nuratrue is on that list.


----------



## davescleveland

Great volume I use all at the gym.


----------



## Juturna

Tommy C said:


> Thanks.  I have another iPhone, same model that is still running iOS 14 so going to try it and then update... err fun times.
> Unless there is something wrong with the 1More and then listening to the Sennheiser for the rest of the day, it might be my brain plays tricks on me!


Funny thing is that I’m already on iOS 15 and I feel like my Comfobuds Pro started to sound worse as well one day without even doing any sort of update of the OS. Started early-to middle of the week I think. Weird.


----------



## erockg

Ceeluh7 said:


> How would you compare volume levels of the Nuratrue and the mtw2? I heard after an update the Nuratrue volume level increased. Like you I have a ton of tws and I'm just looking for a very good SQ set. Nuratrue is on that list.


Yes, a firmware update added a gain option in the app for the Nuratrue.  Really works well now.  They get LOUD.  Way louder than the MTW2 IMO.


----------



## Tommy C (Nov 27, 2021)

Juturna said:


> Funny thing is that I’m already on iOS 15 and I feel like my Comfobuds Pro started to sound worse as well one day without even doing any sort of update of the OS. Started early-to middle of the week I think. Weird.


That’s exactly it! It didn’t happen right after the iOS upgrade but at some point during the past week.
Unless there was an update to the 1More app? I don’t know what to think.
Edit: I just checked the 1More app and its most recent updates. Last one was last month so it’s not the app but seems more like an iOS thing. 
I’m still puzzled.


----------



## davescleveland

Honestly though the Akg is super cheap on Amazon now and it's pretty amazing


----------



## Tommy C

davescleveland said:


> Honestly though the Akg is super cheap on Amazon now and it's pretty amazing


What’s their sound signature is like? They are probably cheap because they are rather old like almost 2 years or so?


----------



## erockg

davescleveland said:


> Honestly though the Akg is super cheap on Amazon now and it's pretty amazing


I had them and actually loved the sub-bass.  They really sounded great.  Where are they on Amazon nowadays?  Can't find them new.


----------



## erockg

erockg said:


> I had them and actually loved the sub-bass.  They really sounded great.  Where are they on Amazon nowadays?  Can't find them new.


Furthermore, looks like they're blowing them out on Harman https://www.harmanaudio.com/akg/AKGN400BLK.html


----------



## dweaver

Heck of a price for an AKG TWS. If they were in Canada I would be darn tempted.


----------



## erockg

dweaver said:


> Heck of a price for an AKG TWS. If they were in Canada I would be darn tempted.


I’m tempted and definitely do not need another pair of TWS!


----------



## davescleveland

Omg $70 I just bought a backup pair


----------



## tinyman392

Tommy C said:


> What’s their sound signature is like? They are probably cheap because they are rather old like almost 2 years or so?


Knowing it’s AKG, it’s probably got a Harman target on it.


----------



## Darkestred

Need to stop checking this thread.  Picked up the AKG.  At a price like that, why not.


----------



## Ceeluh7

Darkestred said:


> Need to stop checking this thread.  Picked up the AKG.  At a price like that, why not.


The Akg is a great set. Nice pick up. They are Harman to their core. Honestly this set did not get enough praise at the time of release


----------



## Tommy C (Nov 27, 2021)

Darkestred said:


> Need to stop checking this thread.  Picked up the AKG.  At a price like that, why not.



Argh.... How much? I see them for $138.
IIRC they had a battery drainage issue when they were released. Not sure if it was fixed later on.


----------



## tinyman392

Tommy C said:


> Argh.... How much? I see them for $138.
> IIRC they battery drainage issue when they were released. Not sure if it was fixed later on.


They’re currently 70 (USD) direct from Harman.


----------



## erockg

tinyman392 said:


> Knowing it’s AKG, it’s probably got a Harman target on it.


It does.  Crinacle gave it props.  https://crinacle.com/2020/06/25/akg-n400-review-the-better-galaxy-buds/


----------



## Darkestred

Ceeluh7 said:


> The Akg is a great set. Nice pick up. They are Harman to their core. Honestly this set did not get enough praise at the time of release


Thank you!  Im just always so fascinated with TWS.  I don't know why.  Always use for multiple, imo.


Tommy C said:


> Argh.... How much? I see them for $138.
> IIRC they battery drainage issue when they were released. Not sure if it was fixed later on.




Both Akg and harmon have a sale for 70 during the next few hours.  If that's the case, i'm not too worried as they'll just be for working out and i dont need them for much longer than an hour or so.

AKG:  https://tinyurl.com/2wkuhs5c
Harman:  https://tinyurl.com/yckjjxyr


----------



## erockg

erockg said:


> Furthermore, looks like they're blowing them out on Harman https://www.harmanaudio.com/akg/AKGN400BLK.html


@Tommy C


----------



## Ceeluh7

The Tronsmart Onyx Prime is legit. It took alot of annoyance and fighting back the urge to throw them to finally come to a place to where I can surely say... The Onyx Prime are legit. 
Be aware that there are stupid issues out the gate with connection. I must have reset these things 10 times trying to get them to pair after shutting them down. I tried updating 5 or 6 times and that kept failing. Now, I use a Samsung galaxy note 10 plus so that may be the issue. I could not get these to update or re-connect to my phone. So I took an older phone and went thru the update process on that and... Bam!... After the update this set has been wonderful.
As far as the sound.... Another gripe... Out of the box these are so awfully piercing and Tinny and metallic with this wind chime sheen to everything in the upper register. EQ. Then EQ again, when you have finished EQ-ING... You may just want to play with it one more time. That is what it was. Almost LP3 bad... To me. But.............. But.............these drivers are legit. The bass is DEEP! It rumbles but in its rumble it doesn't encroach or stay around too long. You aren't going to need to dial up the lows in the mix with these. The Mids are right there too, not attenuated or drawn back but right there with great tonality. The highs can be what you want them to be... Like any tws... They are meant to eq. The good tws can handle what you throw at them. These handle whatever you throw at them with ease. You can tell these are good drivers... Nothing cheap in the sound. The great thing is the tonality, very nice for a set coming in under $65. To me these are a better version of the Soundpeats H1. This is a honeymoon phase and like all of you know... This could all change tomorrow morning... Lol. They sound really nice to me at the moment and I am very impressed by Tronsmart. I did have to change tips as the factory tips imo really suck. In my Constant quest to find good devices for replaying what I love.... Music.... I believe the Tronsmart Onyx Prime are in the top contention for best SQ in the budget segment under 100.        Honeymoon Phase    Hopefully nothing changes


----------



## chinmie

Ceeluh7 said:


> The Tronsmart Onyx Prime is legit. It took alot of annoyance and fighting back the urge to throw them to finally come to a place to where I can surely say... The Onyx Prime are legit.
> Be aware that there are stupid issues out the gate with connection. I must have reset these things 10 times trying to get them to pair after shutting them down. I tried updating 5 or 6 times and that kept failing. Now, I use a Samsung galaxy note 10 plus so that may be the issue. I could not get these to update or re-connect to my phone. So I took an older phone and went thru the update process on that and... Bam!... After the update this set has been wonderful.
> As far as the sound.... Another gripe... Out of the box these are so awfully piercing and Tinny and metallic with this wind chime sheen to everything in the upper register. EQ. Then EQ again, when you have finished EQ-ING... You may just want to play with it one more time. That is what it was. Almost LP3 bad... To me. But.............. But.............these drivers are legit. The bass is DEEP! It rumbles but in its rumble it doesn't encroach or stay around too long. You aren't going to need to dial up the lows in the mix with these. The Mids are right there too, not attenuated or drawn back but right there with great tonality. The highs can be what you want them to be... Like any tws... They are meant to eq. The good tws can handle what you throw at them. These handle whatever you throw at them with ease. You can tell these are good drivers... Nothing cheap in the sound. The great thing is the tonality, very nice for a set coming in under $65. To me these are a better version of the Soundpeats H1. This is a honeymoon phase and like all of you know... This could all change tomorrow morning... Lol. They sound really nice to me at the moment and I am very impressed by Tronsmart. I did have to change tips as the factory tips imo really suck. In my Constant quest to find good devices for replaying what I love.... Music.... I believe the Tronsmart Onyx Prime are in the top contention for best SQ in the budget segment under 100.        Honeymoon Phase    Hopefully nothing changes



your impression basically matches my experience of the Onyx Prime in my review here:
https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/tr...ss-earbuds-qcc3040-bt-5-2.25548/review/27357/

seeing you're using Note 10+ might suggest that the connection problems might be apparent in all Samsung Note phones.. i also resorted to using other phonr to finnaly be able to update. luckily after updating to version 1.2.6, the connection problems on my Note 10 and 8 also went away. 

And yes, i also agree with you that (when tuned) this Onyx Prime is definitely better sounding than the H1


----------



## Ceeluh7

chinmie said:


> your impression basically matches my experience of the Onyx Prime in my review here:
> https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/tr...ss-earbuds-qcc3040-bt-5-2.25548/review/27357/
> 
> seeing you're using Note 10+ might suggest that the connection problems might be apparent in all Samsung Note phones.. i also resorted to using other phonr to finnaly be able to update. luckily after updating to version 1.2.6, the connection problems on my Note 10 and 8 also went away.
> ...


Ya so far I am very happy with this set, it took awhile to get there but I am happy I didn't throw in the towel. Believe me I was close. I noticed after doing side by side tests with the H1 that the Onyx had better note weight, extension both ways, better clarity. H1 is not far behind and I'm sure if I tried I could almost get it there but the Onyx is in my opinion right up there with the best in the segment for SQ.


----------



## dweaver

Pulled out my Sony Z7 and Pono player with balanced cable and getting a reminder of why I loved the Sony sound. Hard to believe how much sound quality we sacrifice to cut the cables...


----------



## Tommy C

dweaver said:


> Pulled out my Sony Z7 and Pono player with balanced cable and getting a reminder of why I loved the Sony sound. Hard to believe how much sound quality we sacrifice to cut the cables...



I had one of those moments with the UE900 a few weeks back. 
Was sitting at my desk listening to some tunes and realized that TWS is super convenient but boy we are not there yet when it comes to sound. Still enjoying it but like you said, it’s a sacrifice.


----------



## onraid

Does someone can buy it for me? Cause I am not in the US


----------



## BobJS

davescleveland said:


> Omg $70 I just bought a backup pair



Don't take offense, as I've done this myself, but,  you know you have the illness when you find yourself buying backups of things you already have.


----------



## petridish

Markttp said:


> Not sure if the offer finishes in 15 mins (midnight UK time), but in case it still helps, I have tried and returned in ears which I bought from Sennheiser direct about 2 months ago.
> 
> They were in perfect condition when returned, but they had no problem with them having been tried.
> 
> (After a moment of madness considering the HD800S, thankfully met with an OOS message, I re-purchased the CX plus inears for £65 ($87), because I thought this represented good value.)


I'm a little late in responding but thanks for the reply, that's good to hear about returns after wearing. I ended up picking up MTW2 and the CX Plus just to give me more time to decide. Figured I could keep one sealed to return if needed.


----------



## erockg

BobJS said:


> Don't take offense, as I've done this myself, but,  you know you have the illness when you find yourself buying backups of things you already have.


99% of us on this thread have GAS (Gear Addiction Syndrome) 😂.  It’s expected!


----------



## AlexCBSN

BobJS said:


> Don't take offense, as I've done this myself, but,  you know you have the illness when you find yourself buying backups of things you already have.


… oh man, good to know I’m not the only one…


----------



## jant71 (Nov 28, 2021)

dweaver said:


> Pulled out my Sony Z7 and Pono player with balanced cable and getting a reminder of why I loved the Sony sound. Hard to believe how much sound quality we sacrifice to cut the cables...


Ignorance is bliss. Without the ignorance there is no bliss.

Oh, I see the JBL Tour Pro+ is $99.95 for Cyber Monday. More Harman goodness.


----------



## regancipher

Finally finished my review of the Elevoc Clear. Unless you are a frequent caller, give them a miss


----------



## dj24

regancipher said:


> Finally finished my review of the Elevoc Clear. Unless you are a frequent caller, give them a miss



Is there a mute option for calls?


----------



## Tommy C

CA MT is down to $90 on Amazon.
If not for their software issues it would have been a very solid buy if you like colored and tastefully bassy sound signature.


----------



## erockg

Tommy C said:


> CA MT is down to $90 on Amazon.
> If not for their software issues it would have been a very solid buy if you like colored and tastefully bassy sound signature.


Great deal if you can deal with the bugs.

This is crazy.  Complete clone of the other model:  https://electronics.woot.com/offers/purada-true-wireless-earbuds-1?ref=w_cnt_lnd_cat_elec_3_53


----------



## Tommy C

erockg said:


> Great deal if you can deal with the bugs.
> 
> This is crazy.  Complete clone of the other model:  https://electronics.woot.com/offers/purada-true-wireless-earbuds-1?ref=w_cnt_lnd_cat_elec_3_53



What the....?!  It looks indeed nearly identical.


----------



## regancipher

dj24 said:


> Is there a mute option for calls?


Not that I can see. Only TWS I've found with a physical mute button is the Jabra 75t.


----------



## tinyman392

erockg said:


> Great deal if you can deal with the bugs.
> 
> This is crazy.  Complete clone of the other model:  https://electronics.woot.com/offers/purada-true-wireless-earbuds-1?ref=w_cnt_lnd_cat_elec_3_53





Tommy C said:


> What the....?!  It looks indeed nearly identical.



A lot of brands will use the same casings/housings as it’s pretty cheap to go that route, especially when said casing/housing is made specifically for particular chipsets that exist already.  I feel like it can cut down on R&D.  I can’t confirm whether or not the drivers are identical though.  It’s not uncommon for that to happen though.  Note that before Cambridge Audio used that particular housing, I could have sworn I had seen a few TWS using said housing and design.  That said, it is 10 bucks, someone who’s heard the CA could purchase them and take a listen.


----------



## erockg

tinyman392 said:


> A lot of brands will use the same casings/housings as it’s pretty cheap to go that route, especially when said casing/housing is made specifically for particular chipsets that exist already.  I feel like it can cut down on R&D.  I can’t confirm whether or not the drivers are identical though.  It’s not uncommon for that to happen though.  Note that before Cambridge Audio used that particular housing, I could have sworn I had seen a few TWS using said housing and design.  That said, it is 10 bucks, someone who’s heard the CA could purchase them and take a listen.


Yup.  I know.  Definitely cuts costs for sure.  What I find interesting is that the big brands are able to hold back the clone companies, but it's the indie companies that always suffer.  I truly would love to know how the business works in that aspect.  NDAs maybe.


----------



## Tommy C

tinyman392 said:


> A lot of brands will use the same casings/housings as it’s pretty cheap to go that route, especially when said casing/housing is made specifically for particular chipsets that exist already.  I feel like it can cut down on R&D.  I can’t confirm whether or not the drivers are identical though.  It’s not uncommon for that to happen though.  Note that before Cambridge Audio used that particular housing, I could have sworn I had seen a few TWS using said housing and design.  That said, it is 10 bucks, someone who’s heard the CA could purchase them and take a listen.



Oh, yeah. Most definitely. The design sharing, OEM game isn't new to me but you mostly see it with Chi-Fi and it's much less common outside of the Asian market. 
The somewhat outlier to me always been the Lypertek PurePlay and Noble which was oddly similar.
With this thing being $10 it's a bit of a headscratcher.


----------



## Canabuc

So if I want LDAC and ANC my choices are the Sony Technics soundcore and Edifier.
For those that have heard each what is your opinion?
Can get the Technics for about160$US but have no option to hear them first and no returns allowed.


----------



## Ceeluh7

Tommy C said:


> Oh, yeah. Most definitely. The design sharing, OEM game isn't new to me but you mostly see it with Chi-Fi and it's much less common outside of the Asian market.
> The somewhat outlier to me always been the Lypertek PurePlay and Noble which was oddly similar.
> With this thing being $10 it's a bit of a headscratcher.


Lypertek tevi/z3 housing is used quite alot. The AG Tws04k also use the exact same housing yet with different chipset and internals. A few others I have seen with these casings and alot of times they happen to be budget sets as well.


----------



## dweaver

Canabuc said:


> So if I want LDAC and ANC my choices are the Sony Technics soundcore and Edifier.
> For those that have heard each what is your opinion?
> Can get the Technics for about160$US but have no option to hear them first and no returns allowed.


I own the older AZ70, Sony 1000XM3, original Soundcore. Out of those the AZ70 was the most audiophile in signature, with the 1000XM3 being next best but much darker in signature, followed by the Soundcore a similar bass level as the Sony but hotter treble that was a bit metallic in signature.

From reading the 1000XM4 is even darker sounding than the XM3, the AZ60 is warmer sounding with slightly dialed back treble, slightly less sub-bass more mid-bass than the AZ70, and the new Song ndcire is more refined than the older model but still a bit hot in the treble.

I will have the AZ60 soon but may not get them before the sale in Canada ends. I will leave impressions when I get them though.


----------



## SciOC

Tommy C said:


> My vote goes to the Fiil T1XS. You can often find them on Amazon for $50 and 40% off coupon which brings the price down to $27. The have low latency mode so great for watching videos and stuff and they sound awesome and punch above their weight.


Well, I got them for $27 on a lightning deal...  But the left earpiece is DOA. Waiting for a replacement but the chifi QC in TWS pairs seems to fit with my preconceived notions of them as being even worse than regular chifi given the increase in things that can go wrong.

Seem pretty slick though, if they worked....


----------



## Ceeluh7

dweaver said:


> I own the older AZ70, Sony 1000XM3, original Soundcore. Out of those the AZ70 was the most audiophile in signature, with the 1000XM3 being next best but much darker in signature, followed by the Soundcore a similar bass level as the Sony but hotter treble that was a bit metallic in signature.
> 
> From reading the 1000XM4 is even darker sounding than the XM3, the AZ60 is warmer sounding with slightly dialed back treble, slightly less sub-bass more mid-bass than the AZ70, and the new Song ndcire is more refined than the older model but still a bit hot in the treble.
> 
> I will have the AZ60 soon but may not get them before the sale in Canada ends. I will leave impressions when I get them though.


I have had all three of these sets. To me I would take the AZ60. The benefits far outweigh the faults of this set. So far LDAC and tws has been a big swing & miss to me. However imo the best implementation of LDAC in this form has to go to the AZ60. They can sound really great and I'm sure will be an endgame set to many.


----------



## Canabuc

Ceeluh7 said:


> I have had all three of these sets. To me I would take the AZ60. The benefits far outweigh the faults of this set. So far LDAC and tws has been a big swing & miss to me. However imo the best implementation of LDAC in this form has to go to the AZ60. They can sound really great and I'm sure will be an endgame set to many.


How is the sound vs Sony or  soundcore?


----------



## Tommy C

SciOC said:


> Well, I got them for $27 on a lightning deal...  But the left earpiece is DOA. Waiting for a replacement but the chifi QC in TWS pairs seems to fit with my preconceived notions of them as being even worse than regular chifi given the increase in things that can go wrong.
> 
> Seem pretty slick though, if they worked....



Sorry to hear that and hopefully the replacement set will be fine.


----------



## Tommy C

Tommy C said:


> Ok something odd happened. I updated my iPhone to iOS 15 and the sound output via Bluetooth has changed. Now the sound quality on the 1MORE Comfobuds Pro took a hit while the Sennheiser CX 400BT sound MUCH better…I can’t explain it but I’m a bit puzzled. Anyone else noticed something similar after upgrading to iOS 15?





Juturna said:


> Funny thing is that I’m already on iOS 15 and I feel like my Comfobuds Pro started to sound worse as well one day without even doing any sort of update of the OS. Started early-to middle of the week I think. Weird.





Tommy C said:


> That’s exactly it! It didn’t happen right after the iOS upgrade but at some point during the past week.
> Unless there was an update to the 1More app? I don’t know what to think.
> Edit: I just checked the 1More app and its most recent updates. Last one was last month so it’s not the app but seems more like an iOS thing.
> I’m still puzzled.



OK, so I think I found the root-cause. Not sure if it's an iOS 15 issue or an issue with my iPhone X. 
When you go to Settings -->Music under Cellular Streaming, make sure it's set to High Quality. 
Now mine was set to High Quality but then I toggled between the 3 options and went back to High Quality and it fixed the issue... Really strange so will be keeping an eye on it but as of now the Comfobuds Pro are super pleasing to my ears. Can easily spend all day with there with no discomfort which is just awesome. The fact that the sound signature is up my alley is gravy.


----------



## Ceeluh7 (Nov 29, 2021)

Canabuc said:


> How is the sound vs Sony or  soundcore?


Soundcore has a thin midrange and treble area, even after your best effort at eq-ING these. Now they can sound very nice but there is non-weighty areas of the spectrum that I couldn't look past. Also a mettalic edge to the BA treble which can really get annoying if you pay attention to it. The Sony on the other hand to me.....my opinion.... Had this odd coloration to the mix. It was warm, there is definite clarity and the midrange to me sounded nice and up front but the Bass was just odd. It was there, but you couldn't feel it. It is a slow bass that is hollow without any emotion... Just weird. I even bumped up the bass on the Sony app and my player's app and nothing helped. The highs roll off at an OK spot but I am one that if the bass is off... Forget about it. The AZ60 has its own issues. It is prone to sibilance, which can be tamed. Also the AZ60 gets confused in complicated tracks, with extended use this may correct itself. Now what I like about the AZ60 is the tonality and the good note weight which is appropriate throughout. It's cohesive. Good Bass, midrange which isn't to far back and highs that have good extention. I love the form factor of this set and all the features are great... Good anc, nice app. Of the 3 mentioned in the original post I would easily say the AZ60, I actually second guess my decision to send them back.... They are a very nice set.


----------



## jant71 (Nov 29, 2021)

Supposedly not till Q2 next year but a Nuarl that will have LDAC. Currently called X47 it will have ambient, ANC, H.D.S.S and all that as well.


----------



## calpar

How are the KEF MU3s? 

I currently have the AZ60, but having to return as the drivers are too large for my ears and the fit is uncomfortable.


----------



## erockg

calpar said:


> How are the KEF MU3s?
> 
> I currently have the AZ60, but having to return as the drivers are too large for my ears and the fit is uncomfortable.


I loved the KEF but ultimately returned them and went with the V-Moda Hexamove Pro for incredible sound, but much less features.  If you have small ears, you may want to take a look.  You can search for those recent posts here.


----------



## calpar

Would you say you found any particular faults with the KEFs? They're currently on offer for £169 and do look to be considerably smaller than the technics. I'll look into the V-Moda as well


----------



## erockg

calpar said:


> Would you say you found any particular faults with the KEFs? They're currently on offer for £169 and do look to be considerably smaller than the technics. I'll look into the V-Moda as well


ANC & Transpareny mode are weak.  No app for EQ.  Tuning is great.  Buds fit great but might not for small ears.


----------



## jant71

calpar said:


> Would you say you found any particular faults with the KEFs? They're currently on offer for £169 and do look to be considerably smaller than the technics. I'll look into the V-Moda as well





erockg said:


> ANC & Transpareny mode are weak.  No app for EQ.  Tuning is great.  Buds fit great but might not for small ears.


I don't see it. Admittedly just going by the pictures they seem close in size. I don't see considerably smaller.


----------



## calpar

Hmm yeah I've looked at the dimensions and there isn't much in it. The KEFs are 1mm smaller in height and 5mm in width. Still might give them a shot if the only downsides are the ANC performance.


----------



## jant71

calpar said:


> Hmm yeah I've looked at the dimensions and there isn't much in it. The KEFs are 1mm smaller in height and 5mm in width. Still might give them a shot if the only downsides are the ANC performance.


Any chance the New JBL reflect flow pro available to you there?? Might be worth a look if so.


----------



## Nostoi

Hello all, just got the Beyerdynamic Amiron Wireless, which are quite good. But is there another pair - higher in the tier - that can offer more refinement, less leakage, with a linear/neutral frequency? In short - and forgive me for skipping much of this 2649 page thread - what's the most "audiophile" oriented wireless pair of headphones (and/or IEMs)? Price doesn't matter. 

Thank you 🙏


----------



## erockg

jant71 said:


> I don't see it. Admittedly just going by the pictures they seem close in size. I don't see considerably smaller.


I've had them both and have the V-Moda.  I think I posted pics of the Vs.  The back side of the KEF are wider.  Probably due to the different sized driver.  Different fit too.  Push and twist.  That said, they're very comfy for me.


----------



## erockg

For those in the market, M&D is having a Cyber sale on new stuff.


----------



## Luchyres

erockg said:


> I've had them both and have the V-Moda.  I think I posted pics of the Vs.  The back side of the KEF are wider.  Probably due to the different sized driver.  Different fit too.  Push and twist.  That said, they're very comfy for me.


I'd be really curious to hear your overall thoughts on the V-Moda's sound quality (apologies if you posted and I missed it!). I've always enjoyed V-Moda and these are calling to me though I'm concerned about the potentially low volume(?) 

Thank you!


----------



## tinyman392

Nostoi said:


> Hello all, just got the Beyerdynamic Amiron Wireless, which are quite good. But is there another pair - higher in the tier - that can offer more refinement, less leakage, with a linear/neutral frequency? In short - and forgive me for skipping much of this 2649 page thread - what's the most "audiophile" oriented wireless pair of headphones (and/or IEMs)? Price doesn't matter.
> 
> Thank you 🙏


You'd probably have good luck finding a pair of good IEMs and adapting them to be TWS using the UTWS3, UTWS5, TRN BT20S Pro, Shure TWS, etc. adapters.


----------



## erockg

Luchyres said:


> I'd be really curious to hear your overall thoughts on the V-Moda's sound quality (apologies if you posted and I missed it!). I've always enjoyed V-Moda and these are calling to me though I'm concerned about the potentially low volume(?)
> 
> Thank you!


I did, you should prob be able to search a few days back via the search bar.  Yeah, they were low out of the box, but the Hexamove Pro gets the EQ in the app and that pumped it up a bit.  Not that stock is bad, but I like it loud.  And wow, they really do sound great.  Even with the no frills, I'm keeping them.  I love the sound and the buds are tiny.


----------



## Nostoi

tinyman392 said:


> You'd probably have good luck finding a pair of good IEMs and adapting them to be TWS using the UTWS3, UTWS5, TRN BT20S Pro, Shure TWS, etc. adapters.


Much obliged, will look into these options. Also looking into Beyerdynamic Xelento. Hopefully they're a step up from Amiron.


----------



## tinyman392

Nostoi said:


> Much obliged, will look into these options. Also looking into Beyerdynamic Xelento. Hopefully they're a step up from Amiron.


The Xelento looks like it uses MMCX connectors.  As long as they aren't recessed in a proprietary manner, you should be able to find TWS adapters for it pretty easily.  Any of the ones I listed above should work with them.  Additionally, there are also BT DAC/amps that have become popular for portable use or even MMCX BT cables.


----------



## jant71 (Nov 29, 2021)

Tommy C said:


> What the....?!  It looks indeed nearly identical.



Saw someone in the Woot forums bought a "Purada" TWS and took a picture of what they got....






On the CA site...


----------



## BooleanBones

jant71 said:


> Saw someone in the Woot forums bought a "Purada" TWS and took a picture of what they got....
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Guess that answers that


----------



## Ceeluh7

So, the Nuratrue are fantastic sounding. Very happy I chose to go this route. I also purchased the Hiby WH2 Single DD. I will leave some impressions with some time with them. I have had a few days with the WH2 and while SQ with LDAC  is very nice.... It certainly has issues... Not that anyone is asking but I will def add a mini review of these both in the near future


----------



## Aramaki

Ceeluh7 said:


> So, the Nuratrue are fantastic sounding. Very happy I chose to go this route. I also purchased the Hiby WH2 Single DD. I will leave some impressions with some time with them. I have had a few days with the WH2 and while SQ with LDAC  is very nice.... It certainly has issues... Not that anyone is asking but I will def add a mini review of these both in the near future


I have the WH2 also (with CP1025 tips), what tips are you using?,


----------



## Ceeluh7

Aramaki said:


> I have the WH2 also (with CP1025 tips), what tips are you using?,


LOL.... Dude..... Trying to find tips for the Hiby WH2 is damn near impossible. The case just does not give way for different tips and the tips which come with he wh2 absolutely sucketh. I went thru the thousand tips I have in my giant Tupperware and found 1 set of tips that work...... "1"!! These are the only tips that I have in which they are almost flush with the grill and are wide enough to actually seal while still being firm enough of a flange also. These work. Problem is I cannot figure out where I got them from.


----------



## erockg

jant71 said:


> Saw someone in the Woot forums bought a "Purada" TWS and took a picture of what they got....
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Ha ha! That is awesome.


----------



## Ceeluh7

jant71 said:


> Saw someone in the Woot forums bought a "Purada" TWS and took a picture of what they got....
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That's ridiculous... Lol.


----------



## erockg

Re: Woot.  I dare you all to go for it!  So tempted.


----------



## erockg

Ceeluh7 said:


> So, the Nuratrue are fantastic sounding. Very happy I chose to go this route. I also purchased the Hiby WH2 Single DD. I will leave some impressions with some time with them. I have had a few days with the WH2 and while SQ with LDAC  is very nice.... It certainly has issues... Not that anyone is asking but I will def add a mini review of these both in the near future


Crazy how good they sound, right?  ANC isn't bad at all either.  They killed my ears.


----------



## Ceeluh7

erockg said:


> Crazy how good they sound, right?  ANC isn't bad at all either.  They killed my ears.


So far they are not giving me any ear pain issues. Thankfully. Yes man.... These sound very very good. Very pleasantly surprised.


----------



## Lam3r_co.

Few posts back, I was asking for an advice on TWS IEMs and since I got no answer, I went through online reviews and bought Panasonic RZ-S500W. They were discounted 50% to 62euros and had stellar reviews, so I thought why not.

I just got them and have to say, these are absolutely terrible. I've got no idea how are these getting so great reviews (example). The sound is muddled, like coming through a rag and it's missing details. It's also missing dynamic range, but that's maybe the wireless compression? All music sounds like it got mastered during the peak of loudness war era.

I did an A/B comparison between these and Etymotic MK5 and the difference is mind boggling (I also have ER3SE, but that wouldn't be a fair comparison). The Panasonics are all bass, overpowering everything else (I know etymotic and bass goes together like vampires and garlic, but still...) After trying multiple ear tip sizes on the Panasonics and EQing the bass 7db down, it's slightly more bearable, but it's still like turning on an old radio. Any violins are almost completely gone, acoustic guitars are lacking top end zing and there's a weird "hole" in vocals.

On the plus side, the headphones are really comfortable, but I don't see the usage for anything more than podcasts.

*Does anyone have a suggestion* for something more similar to the signature Etymotic sound? Just crisp and detailed with good separation.
My other experience is with Airpods Pro (worse than these Panasonics, but at least without overpowering bass) and Sennheiser Momentum 2 (these were better, but couldn't get a good seal).
Thanks


----------



## Tommy C

Lam3r_co. said:


> Few posts back, I was asking for an advice on TWS IEMs and since I got no answer, I went through online reviews and bought Panasonic RZ-S500W. They were discounted 50% to 62euros and had stellar reviews, so I thought why not.
> 
> I just got them and have to say, these are absolutely terrible. I've got no idea how are these getting so great reviews (example). The sound is muddled, like coming through a rag and it's missing details. It's also missing dynamic range, but that's maybe the wireless compression? All music sounds like it got mastered during the peak of loudness war era.
> 
> ...



You're going to a have a very hard time finding a TWS set similar in tuning to the the Etymotic as most TWS have this consumer sound and even the ones that are considered more balanced normally have elevated bass, and with all that being said you may wanna look at the LYPERTEK PUREPLAY Z3 2.0 as a I was reading that they are more balanced and neutral compared to most TWS.


----------



## Lam3r_co.

Tommy C said:


> You're going to a have a very hard time finding a TWS set similar in tuning to the the Etymotic as most TWS have this consumer sound and even the ones that are considered more balanced normally have elevated bass, and with all that being said you may wanna look at the LYPERTEK PUREPLAY Z3 2.0 as a I was reading that they are more balanced and neutral compared to most TWS.



Thank you, I'll check them out, the price is less than I expected. 

In the meantime, I think I found use for these RZ-S500W. They respond much better to slow, more heavy music, with constant bass guitar background (like Opeth - Damnation), than to more lively acoustic and bowed string instruments.


----------



## Tommy C

Lam3r_co. said:


> Thank you, I'll check them out, the price is less than I expected.
> 
> In the meantime, I think I found use for these RZ-S500W. They respond much better to slow, more heavy music, with constant bass guitar background (like Opeth - Damnation), than to more lively acoustic and bowed string instruments.



Also the Technics AZ70 might suit you too. A few members have them here and I’m sure will be able to chime in.


----------



## kolbo

Anyone has thoughts about good starting EQ for the Shure Aonic Free?


----------



## erockg

kolbo said:


> Anyone has thoughts about good starting EQ for the Shure Aonic Free?


Might not be for everyone, but here is one of mine.  I will say, it's tough to EQ!


----------



## kolbo

erockg said:


> Might not be for everyone, but here is one of mine.  I will say, it's tough to EQ!


Yes. I was using Treble Boost for a while and now trying with EQ off. I’m using SpinFits and I have to say that the EQ off is not bad.


----------



## helmutcheese (Nov 30, 2021)

*Ideally* if you have good devices and good files you should not need any shaping but we get addicted to it so turning it off sounds lacking till you adjust to it.

Obv in real life due to some limitations and variables  you will need to EQ somewhat.

I must admit a lot of the cheaper buds sound good due to their V shape sound.


----------



## erockg

kolbo said:


> Yes. I was using Treble Boost for a while and now trying with EQ off. I’m using SpinFits and I have to say that the EQ off is not bad.


Not bad.  I prefer raising the db a bit and then I always try to add some sub-bass.  Probably make my head explode, but I'm okay with that


----------



## erockg

New B&O EQ update.  Someone there is listening.  Maybe extra touch controls are coming?


----------



## BooleanBones

erockg said:


> New B&O EQ update.  Someone there is listening.  Maybe extra touch controls are coming?


damn you! I am logging off the internet now before I buy something


----------



## erockg

BooleanBones said:


> damn you! I am logging off the internet now before I buy something


Ha ha!  I know, right?  I'm still in love.


----------



## Ceeluh7

Lam3r_co. said:


> Few posts back, I was asking for an advice on TWS IEMs and since I got no answer, I went through online reviews and bought Panasonic RZ-S500W. They were discounted 50% to 62euros and had stellar reviews, so I thought why not.
> 
> I just got them and have to say, these are absolutely terrible. I've got no idea how are these getting so great reviews (example). The sound is muddled, like coming through a rag and it's missing details. It's also missing dynamic range, but that's maybe the wireless compression? All music sounds like it got mastered during the peak of loudness war era.
> 
> ...


Man this is a tough question as you will hear very few if any tws with this sound sig. You almost have to look for a more balanced set to start with and eq to your liking. I would suggest the Moondrop Sparks for roughly $75-85. Or even go with a budget set which leans toward the bright side like the Edifier Tws1 Pro. I think prob your best option is a wireless adapter like the Fiio Utws3/utws5 or the trn adapters and get a iem with the signature that you enjoy. You may have to slightly eq any coloration that the adapters have but this may be an alternative to fully True Wireless.


----------



## Ceeluh7 (Nov 30, 2021)

BooleanBones said:


> damn you! I am logging off the internet now before I buy something


So any news on the update? 
Update: nevermind I answered my own question by looking back at the comments


----------



## Tommy C

helmutcheese said:


> *Ideally* if you have good devices and good files you should not need any shaping but we get addicted to it so turning it off sounds lacking till you adjust to it.
> 
> Obv in real life due to some limitations and variables  you will need to EQ somewhat.
> 
> I must admit a lot of the cheaper buds sound good due to their V shape sound.


In theory, yes but even with high quality files or streaming and a good device it's highly dependent on the TWS set, its capabilities and tuning.


----------



## helmutcheese (Nov 30, 2021)

You would be using wired for that as TWS are still not quite there and LDAC is not the holy grail some even say aptX-HD is as good/better sounding.

I gave up with the artificial sounding settings on my SoundBlaster ZxR (The older Live 5.1 Series card were better sounding IMO) and just play Direct Stereo for my music now this gives me up to 24/192 so has me covered for Amazon Music HD via my speakers and wired ear/headphones.

 I do use the various settings for 5.1 gaming though.


----------



## erockg

Tommy C said:


> In theory, yes but even with high quality files or streaming and a good device it's highly dependent on the TWS set, its capabilities and tuning.


Not to mention, a lot of these older recordings (that I listen to) were mastered poorly.  They need a bit of an EQ bump.


----------



## helmutcheese (Nov 30, 2021)

Man I have albums I downloaded that are 128-192k, remember connections were slower and HDD's were smaller back early 2000's and I was lucky as I had 512k Cable since 2001 not 56k Dial Up and a 60GB HDD where as even 20-30GB was just becoming common on new mid range machines.

I have tried to slowly replace them and rip my own 100's of CD's but its time consuming, I settled for mp3 320k as it sounds good enough for PC use and file size is decent.


----------



## Lam3r_co.

Ceeluh7 said:


> Man this is a tough question as you will hear very few if any tws with this sound sig. You almost have to look for a more balanced set to start with and eq to your liking. I would suggest the Moondrop Sparks for roughly $75-85. Or even go with a budget set which leans toward the bright side like the Edifier Tws1 Pro. I think prob your best option is a wireless adapter like the Fiio Utws3/utws5 or the trn adapters and get a iem with the signature that you enjoy. You may have to slightly eq any coloration that the adapters have but this may be an alternative to fully True Wireless.



Thank you for the suggestions, I'll check them out.
I thought about the FiiO route before, but it seems like Etymotic have weirdly angled MMCX connectors, which are not compatible... At the same time, you're giving up a lot of the comfort of TWS earbuds with FiiO.

It looks like TWS is currently all about compromises between laziness/comfort and sound quality and I'll have to learn to accept it.


----------



## Tommy C

Lam3r_co. said:


> Thank you for the suggestions, I'll check them out.
> I thought about the FiiO route before, but it seems like Etymotic have weirdly angled MMCX connectors, which are not compatible... At the same time, you're giving up a lot of the comfort of TWS earbuds with FiiO.
> 
> It looks like TWS is currently all about compromises between laziness/comfort and sound quality and I'll have to learn to accept it.


I usually enjoy balanced sound but not clinical when it makes it dry and boring. 
Nowadays I use mostly the 1More Comfobuds Pro, the Sennheiser CX 400 BT and the Fiil T1XS. They are different but all sound really good and far from having a bloated bass. 
If you have any specific questions re the TWS mentioned I’m happy to answer.


----------



## helmutcheese

I have FiiO FH3's on a FiiO  LC-BT2 and FH7's (wired) both with my own XL SpinFits (none of the included tips fit me) and although cold when fitted at first they are really comfy, not sure how they would feel on the FiiO earloop models.


----------



## dweaver

Lam3r_co. said:


> Thank you, I'll check them out, the price is less than I expected.
> 
> In the meantime, I think I found use for these RZ-S500W. They respond much better to slow, more heavy music, with constant bass guitar background (like Opeth - Damnation), than to more lively acoustic and bowed string instruments.


I am one of the owners of the AZ70 and they definitely are more balanced than most TWS products, the other option is Samsung Buds Pro which has a very AKG like signature. Both will still have more bass than an Etymotic IEM. The AZ70 has the least amount of mid-bass out of the 2 while actually have nice sub-bass which works well, at least to my ears.

Outside of these 2 TWS I am unsure of another TWS that will give you anything like the Etymotic sound. The other option as has been mentioned would be to get a MMCX IEM and use a set of BT adapters with them to give you a similar albeit slightly more bulky solution.

Note any TWS solution or independent left right adapter will never achieve the level of detail your used to. The technology is still very much a trade off between convenience and sound quality.


----------



## scubaphish (Nov 30, 2021)

dweaver said:


> I am one of the owners of the AZ70 and they definitely are more balanced than most TWS products, the other option is Samsung Buds Pro which has a very AKG like signature. Both will still have more bass than an Etymotic IEM. The AZ70 has the least amount of mid-bass out of the 2 while actually have nice sub-bass which works well, at least to my ears.
> 
> Outside of these 2 TWS I am unsure of another TWS that will give you anything like the Etymotic sound. The other option as has been mentioned would be to get a MMCX IEM and use a set of BT adapters with them to give you a similar albeit slightly more bulky solution.
> 
> Note any TWS solution or independent left right adapter will never achieve the level of detail your used to. The technology is still very much a trade off between convenience and sound quality.


I’m not an owner of a set, but you mention AKG signature, and from what I’ve read the AKG N400NC being discussed earlier (and still on sale for $70) have that signature and follow the Harman curve fairly closely. Just a thought.

https://www.akg.com/Headphones/Earbuds/N400NCTWS-.html?dwvar_N400NCTWS-_color=Black-GLOBAL-Current


----------



## dweaver

scubaphish said:


> I’m not an owner of a set, but you mention AKG signature, and from what I’ve read the AKG N400NC being discussed earlier (and still on sale for $70) have that signature and follow the Harman curve fairly closely. Just a thought.
> 
> https://www.akg.com/Headphones/Earbuds/N400NCTWS-.html?dwvar_N400NCTWS-_color=Black-GLOBAL-Current


That's very true and likely even a better option as well as great price!


----------



## erockg

scubaphish said:


> I’m not an owner of a set, but you mention AKG signature, and from what I’ve read the AKG N400NC being discussed earlier (and still on sale for $70) have that signature and follow the Harman curve fairly closely. Just a thought.
> 
> https://www.akg.com/Headphones/Earbuds/N400NCTWS-.html?dwvar_N400NCTWS-_color=Black-GLOBAL-Current


I just repurchased these because of the sale.  I have to admit, they are killer buds for the price.  Beautiful build quality, not spectacular, but okay ANC, transparency, wireless charging and the sound signature is excellent IMO.  Full swipe and tap controls too.  For $69, well worth it.


----------



## dweaver

Well my AZ60 is stuck in Canada Post hell, coming from BC where all hell has broken loose. Tracking went from Thursday, to Friday, now to Monday... DOH!

Must ignore desire to run out and buy the Jabra Elite 3 on sale at Visions for $79 minus $35 gift card... LOL.


----------



## BooleanBones

dweaver said:


> Well my AZ60 is stuck in Canada Post hell, coming from BC where all hell has broken loose. Tracking went from Thursday, to Friday, now to Monday... DOH!
> 
> Must ignore desire to run out and buy the Jabra Elite 3 on sale at Visions for $79 minus $35 gift card... LOL.


I feel your pain  At least my stuff is not in the northwest.


----------



## jant71

Did we hear anything about the Marshall ANC model??
https://www.amazon.com/Marshall-Mot...311866&sprefix=true+w,electronics,181&sr=8-53


----------



## erockg

jant71 said:


> Did we hear anything about the Marshall ANC model??
> https://www.amazon.com/Marshall-Motif-Wireless-Canceling-Headphones/dp/B09CHH1Z4K/ref=sr_1_53?crid=3LMPBOUIRWFM6&keywords=true+wireless+headphones&qid=1638311866&sprefix=true+w,electronics,181&sr=8-53


They're supposed to be good but have been OOS for a while.  Looking forward to trying them out.


----------



## Canabuc (Nov 30, 2021)

Ok decided to bite the bullet and throw my hat in the ring again (and any other lame expression you can add here).

After late 2019 and early 2020 having tested the following:

Jabra Elite active 75t and 85t
Galaxy buds plus and pro
Sony XM3
Technics AZ70
Sennheiser MTW2
Fiil t1 pro
JBL club pro plus
CA MT

I finally settled on of all things Huawei freebuds pro. They had great mix of good comfort and fit, great controls ambient and ANC.
Good size case and the sound was not best in class, but with some EQ to help the high end it was good enough.

Now a year later and a bunch of new releases as well as some toe dipping into some item like Moondrop Aria, decided to see what the new stuff was about in my neverending attempt to find the Lord of the Buds. 1 bud to rule them all!

Decided that I wanted better sound quality than what I had before but without losing out on features.
Also don't like to break the bank knowing in a year or so I will likely repeat the cycle.

Black Friday is a fun time to do this. I was in the USA for a week and Amazon had some intriguing sales.
Was this close to pulling trigger on NeoBuds pro at 100$ but by the time I decided the shipping date would be past my return date home.

Sony intrigued me but hate fact you can't control volume and track and ANC on buds at same time. Also the warmer darker sound described doesn't appeal to be as my Huawei are already on the warmer darker side needing EQ. Also in Canada the are on sale for 350$ or about 280$ which seems like a lot.
Also head that the fit isn't just secure or comfortable and I plan to work out with the buds.

Read all the buzz about the liberty pro 3. Have the 1st model.
Didn't like people talking about too v shaped and very thin mid and highs. So so ANC and ambient. Also seem expensive though they check all the boxes. Also battery life apparently seems way over stated.

Well that left the new Technics AZ60. Went online to read reviews and go on YouTube. Not alot of there in English but what there is was very good.
The main criticism was lack of QI charging and wearing sensors. Neither are that important to me.

Will I watched a bunch of Chinese YouTube videos with translated subtitles. Hysterical to see what comes up, but in several they ranked the AZ60 as either the top or a close second to the Sony. They all loved the sound and the comfort and the ANC ambient was very good.

So went to look on Amazon and here in Canada they are nearly $290 or about 230$usd.
Seemed a bit pricy

Then @dweaver mentioned seeing them in Canada online for 160$usd or 200$Canadian. 
Turns out one of the stores is located where I live 15 minutes a way. Only negative is that with Covid here in Canada outside of Amazon and spoke noone is taking back opened earbuds.

So I went today when I saw the dark color was in stock and took the gamble.

If you haven't fallen asleep yet reading this, here are my very initial out of the box impressions which will soon be followed by a bunch of questions.

1. Case is small!
2. Buds look amazing!
3. Fit is so much better and more secure than the AZ70. Haven't even tried the other 6 included ear tips yet!
4. There is an initial noise cancellation setup that I did with bathroom fan on. Not sure if that can be redone in future. But do far it has surpassed the ANC of the Samsung and Sennheiser and seems up there with the Huawei and Jabra.

5. Initial sound impression is that they improved the missing low end of the AZ70. Sound stage and separation are very good. Treble detail is among the best.
Overall the sound signature is on the brighter and colder side. I imagine the Sony's are more at the warmer darker.
The equalizer built in works to adjust the be a bit up and drop the upper mids  lower treble a tiny bit.

I imagine one they have been played a bit longer they will warm up a bit based on what I have read. 

Overall the sound is really great and seems to work great with all genres.

So glad I gambled at the sale price!


----------



## erockg

erockg said:


> I've had them both and have the V-Moda.  I think I posted pics of the Vs.  The back side of the KEF are wider.  Probably due to the different sized driver.  Different fit too.  Push and twist.  That said, they're very comfy for me.


Welp, for what it's worth, I'm here taking calls, listening to music on both the V-Moda and the blowout sale version of the AKG N400NC.  Comparing and contrasting.  I think the V-Moda's need to go back.  For $69, the AKGs are just a steal.  All the features the V-Moda's lack.  I'm leaning toward sending the V-Moda back and saving the $100.


----------



## Canabuc

Ok now for an LDAC question.
For the Technics you have to turn this in in the app. Then you also have to turn it on on the phone blue tooth settings.
Then in the developer options you can choose what bit rate quality you want.

Needless to say I chose the highest.

However, if I turn off the LDAC setting on the phone, but keep it on on the buds or vice versa, what happens? Seems if off in Bluetooth settings on phone , it still shows it as selected on in developer options.

Also, using Amazon HD music, they have choice of listening to some songs in ultra HD or in Dolby Atmos. My Galaxy note phone also has a Dolby Atmos setting. What should be on to get Atmos both our does that just process the audio twice? Way more songs to get top sound than before, just trying to decide what combo is best.


----------



## Canabuc

erockg said:


> Welp, for what it's worth, I'm here taking calls, listening to music on both the V-Moda and the blowout sale version of the AKG N400NC.  Comparing and contrasting.  I think the V-Moda's need to go back.  For $69, the AKGs are just a steal.  All the features the V-Moda's lack.  I'm leaning toward sending the V-Moda back and saving the $100.


Too bad that sale wasn't here in Canada. That said be careful there is an issue with battery case drain where the buds taken out the next day have no juice in them as if they don't shut off in the case. Still a great set for a great price.


----------



## erockg

Canabuc said:


> Too bad that sale wasn't here in Canada. That said be careful there is an issue with battery case drain where the buds taken out the next day have no juice in them as if they don't shut off in the case. Still a great set for a great price.


I know about that.  I've had them before and didn't have the issue.  Fingers crossed!


----------



## Canabuc

erockg said:


> I know about that.  I've had them before and didn't have the issue.  Fingers crossed!


You had them already? And why did you get rid of them?


----------



## dweaver

Canabuc said:


> Ok decided to bite the bullet and throw my hat in the ring again (and any other lame expression you can add here).
> 
> After late 2019 and early 2020 having tested the following:
> 
> ...


This is exactly what I am hoping for. My only wish on the AZ70 was a bit more bass. I prefer a bit brighter sound most of the time so will like that aspect.

Now I just have to wait for them to arrive... Patiently... LOL


----------



## erockg

Canabuc said:


> You had them already? And why did you get rid of them?


Overabundance of TWS earbuds , so I didn't think I "needed" them.  I didn't have any issues with them outside of fit.  But I put on a pair of large Devialet tips today and they're working incredibly well.  I also like to try everything because I'm crazy and think I might be missing something.  I have my pairs that I'll keep, but others that rotate in and out.


----------



## Canabuc

dweaver said:


> This is exactly what I am hoping for. My only wish on the AZ70 was a bit more bass. I prefer a bit brighter sound most of the time so will like that aspect.
> 
> Now I just have to wait for them to arrive... Patiently... LOL


I went to the first store you mentioned Red One. They are in Montreal so no shipping. I think you will like them! For me they fixed everything from the AZ70.


----------



## dweaver

Almost ordered from Redone but they wanted to charge shipping so I switched to London Drugs.


----------



## Canabuc

dweaver said:


> Almost ordered from Redone but they wanted to charge shipping so I switched to London Drugs.


I know it is free shipping over 200 and price was 199$.
Visions now has it at same price. Glad I got it locally.
Now have to figure out what to do regarding LDAC.
Might switch my YouTube music subscription to Amazon. Will be cheaper and get higher resolution. Just will miss all my playlist stuff. Wonder if there is away to transfer over


----------



## dweaver

I wanted to get them at Visions but they don't seem to carry the new model according to their website. Where did you see them advertising the new model? 

In any case I just need to relax and wait... LOL


----------



## Canabuc

Sale flyer today I thought. Did you go silver or dark


----------



## dweaver

I went with the darker color, and you?


----------



## Canabuc

dweaver said:


> I went with the darker color, and you?


Same. Very nice look and better fit than the 70s


----------



## mag8

Hey all, i hope you can give me a bit of a purchasing advice.

I would like to buy a new pair of true wireless NON in-ear earbuds.
I currently own the sabbat X12 pro, which i find very convenient to keep on my bedside table and fall asleep to. Their battery does not drain if they are still connected but nothing is playing.

Unfortunately their microphone sucks so it's impossible to use them during the day to answer calls when i listen to music but i am interrupted by a call.

What are sub 50$ earbuds i should look into? It would be nice if i could use either the left or right independently, as these older X12 pro have the left one as a master and the right one as a slave


----------



## Lam3r_co.

dweaver said:


> Note any TWS solution or independent left right adapter will never achieve the level of detail your used to. The technology is still very much a trade off between convenience and sound quality.



I'm slowly coming to terms with this, but where's the limitation? Is it because the L/R are always slightly out of phase due to dual DAC? I'm not listening to lossless audio either, just spotify premium on highest preset, while at move. 

Re: AZ70, aren't they using the same dynamic driver as the Panasonic RZ-S500WE I currently own? I was actually thinking whether I should look for balanced armature TWSs, but from my research, these are mostly unknown brands from China.

In any case, thank you very much for your comments. I'll try to find somewhere I can listen to the AZ60 or AZ70


----------



## FYLegend

Has anyone noticed WiFi throttling while using LDAC? It's been a while since I've used LDAC but previously I used my Note 9 with the MDR-1000X and a 20mbps connection is that wifi slows a fair bit when using LDAC (720p on YouTube is okay but 1080p60 or 1440p videos become slow to buffer).

Samsung Scalable seems to do the opposite. It throttles the bitrate when there is WiFi congestion, and it is terrible on my Buds2 at home with WiFi connected. The treble starts to sound compressed intermittently, and the audio sometimes slows and speeds up. AAC sounds cleaner but has its share of issues including the fact that you must always go into developer options to enable it upon each connection. I started noticing the same problem on the Buds+, but then it seemed be not as bad as the Buds2, so I wonder if a firmware update or something with the Wearables App is screwing things up. Someone suggested I delete all Bluetooth data and use an old version of Wearables.

Even though the Note 9 is near the end of its life cycle it's still disappointing to see such issues between products of the same brand. I had the same problem with Sony when Xperia Z5 had LDAC connectivity issues with the MDR-1000X, but was discontinued such that they did not bring a firmware fix they had brought to the later phones.

Not being able to use transparency with one ear is a bit of a dealbreaker for me. I was looking forward to the Liberty 3 Pro until I heard of this issue and the fact that Anker does not want to change it. Also the Earfun Free Pro 2. On Airoha, it should be able to change this setting (TaoTronics SoundLiberty 94 defaults to ambient when using one ear) and if you have AirReps156x you could force it to enable transparency on one ear but it is cumbersome and the system does not remember it.


----------



## zeinharis

FYLegend said:


> Has anyone noticed WiFi throttling while using LDAC? It's been a while since I've used LDAC but previously I used my Note 9 with the MDR-1000X and a 20mbps connection is that wifi slows a fair bit when using LDAC (720p on YouTube is okay but 1080p60 or 1440p videos become slow to buffer).
> 
> Samsung Scalable seems to do the opposite. It throttles the bitrate when there is WiFi congestion, and it is terrible on my Buds2 at home with WiFi connected. The treble starts to sound compressed intermittently, and the audio sometimes slows and speeds up. AAC sounds cleaner but has its share of issues including the fact that you must always go into developer options to enable it upon each connection. I started noticing the same problem on the Buds+, but then it seemed be not as bad as the Buds2, so I wonder if a firmware update or something with the Wearables App is screwing things up. Someone suggested I delete all Bluetooth data and use an old version of Wearables.
> 
> ...



On my rog phone 5 (using WF-1000XM4 LDAC, set to 990kbps) the Bluetooth signal becomes intermittent as soon I switched on the wifi on my phone, but doesn't slow the wifi connection. It happens when I'm using location service on my phone as well.


----------



## dweaver

Lam3r_co. said:


> I'm slowly coming to terms with this, but where's the limitation? Is it because the L/R are always slightly out of phase due to dual DAC? I'm not listening to lossless audio either, just spotify premium on highest preset, while at move.
> 
> Re: AZ70, aren't they using the same dynamic driver as the Panasonic RZ-S500WE I currently own? I was actually thinking whether I should look for balanced armature TWSs, but from my research, these are mostly unknown brands from China.
> 
> In any case, thank you very much for your comments. I'll try to find somewhere I can listen to the AZ60 or AZ70


The AZ70 uses a different karger driver than the S500, not sure about the AZ60 in regards to its driver.


----------



## Canabuc

dweaver said:


> The AZ70 uses a different karger driver than the S500, not sure about the AZ60 in regards to its driver.


AZ60 uses a new 8mm biocellulose driver. AZ70 uses a 10mm graphene coated Peek driver.

I am no true audiophile but in my limited session so far with AZ60, their sound to me is similar to my Moondrop Aria in tonality.


----------



## OhSoSWIL (Dec 1, 2021)

Been testing out the Comfobuds Pro (Aurora Blue) and the Liberty 2 Pros over the past 1-2 weeks. 

Liking the Comfobuds - this is embarrassingly my first experience with ANC and I like it. But I'm not liking the stem design. Love how bright sounding the Liberty's are BUT lack of features kill it for me. Plus, the low-end on both of these is just not enough for me. Call me a bass head. Swapped out the stock tips on both with the Spinfit CP360s. I'll be returning both as I haven't fallen in love and want something that I can really *feeeeeel* the music with.

Any recommendations??


----------



## Ceeluh7

Canabuc said:


> AZ60 uses a new 8mm biocellulose driver. AZ70 uses a 10mm graphene coated Peek driver.
> 
> I am no true audiophile but in my limited session so far with AZ60, their sound to me is similar to my Moondrop Aria in tonality.


Ya, you can certainly eq it to sound somewhat close in tonality to the Aria. Bass response is similar. Albeit all the differences of wired to tws exist but ya... I can see that man


----------



## Canabuc

Ceeluh7 said:


> Ya, you can certainly eq it to sound somewhat close in tonality to the Aria. Bass response is similar. Albeit all the differences of wired to tws exist but ya... I can see that man


Correct. My brief listening with LDAC and ultra HD stream from Amazon, definitely seemed to add some space to the sound opening it up and giving a bit more dynamics.


----------



## Tommy C (Dec 1, 2021)

OhSoSWIL said:


> Been testing out the Comfobuds Pro (Aurora Blue) and the Liberty 2 Pros over the past 1-2 weeks.
> 
> Liking the Comfobuds - this is embarrassingly my first experience with ANC and I like it. But I'm not liking the stem design. Love how bright sounding the Liberty's are BUT lack of features kill it for me. Plus, the low-end on both of these is just not enough for me. Call me a bass head. Swapped out the stock tips on both with the Spinfit CP360s. I'll be returning both as I haven't fallen in love and want something that I can really *feeeeeel* the music with.
> 
> Any recommendations??


I don’t love the stem design but I’ll take that since they are so comfortable and can basically be my go-to for music and calls throughout the day.
And yes, they are not bass cannons but I find the bass just right for my taste.
Do you find the bass lacking even with the Bass Booster 1 preset?

Edit: tried the Bass Booster 1 and it’s a muddy mess. The Bass Booster 2 preset is much better but brings the treble down so lacks sparkle for me. My favourite is Acoustic 1 preset.


----------



## jodaboda

Fiio UTWS5 available to pre-order

https://hifigo.com/collections/fiio/products/fiio-utws5

already has two reviews from people who haven't received them yet lol


----------



## tinyman392

jodaboda said:


> Fiio UTWS5 available to pre-order
> 
> https://hifigo.com/collections/fiio/products/fiio-utws5
> 
> already has two reviews from people who haven't received them yet lol


I was about to say there is at least one member on here who has the UTWS5 in their possession already (AliExpress has had them on sale for a while).  But yeah, the use of future tense or mix of present and future tense kind of says they haven't received them.


----------



## tinyman392

I received my NiceHCK HB2 adapters today.  The good is that they do come with all adapters included: MMCX, recessed 2-pin, and a QDC or TFZ 2-pin all in the box.  I don't remember the TRN coming with the adapters in the box (only the one you purchased it with).  The bad: it's missing a case and there is an audible hiss if nothing is playing.  Outside of that, they sound fine, I tested them with my HiFiMan RE1000 and Drop Plus IEMs which both use a recessed port which my other adapters don't seem to work with (though I haven't tested the 2-pin TRN yet since I don't own them).


----------



## helmutcheese (Dec 1, 2021)

They have been on AliExpress for weeks, pity no aptX-HD or LDAC so it will roll back to aptX on phones that do not have aptX-Adaptive and the 8 hours battery is not that good, some others earloops have 15 hours and even some buds have 15 hours.

Would be a downgrade from my FiiO Neckband which has LDAC and aptX-HD + more codec plus 24 hours battery.


----------



## Canabuc

Samsung has LDAC not aptx adaptive


----------



## Nick24JJ (Dec 1, 2021)

I ordered the UTWS5 today, directly from FiiO store on AliExpress. I hope it will play well with my new FiiO FH5s, they are just coming out of 200 hours of burn in, and they sound cool! (Qudelix 5K + twisted 4-core copper cable + bass switch set to ON). My phone has aptX Adaptive. It's just that I will receive it around December 28


----------



## helmutcheese (Dec 1, 2021)

> Samsung has LDAC not aptx adaptive



If you are replying to me I am on about the above comment about the FiiO UTWS5's (but for some reason did not see the post after it or I would have quoted it) do not have LDAC or the standalone aptX-HD codec to fall back to so I would be stuck on aptX like with a few of my current SoundPeats aptX-Adaptive QC3040 based buds.

FiiO have already paid the up front large sum for the licence for it so it is only a $ or so per device to add it.


----------



## helmutcheese (Dec 1, 2021)

Nick24JJ said:


> I have ordered the UTWS5 today, directly from FiiO store on AliExpress. I hope it will play well with my new FiiO FH5s, they are just coming out of 200 hours of burn in, and they sound cool! (Qudelix 5K + twisted 4-core copper cable + bass switch set to ON). My phone has aptX Adaptive. It's just that I will receive it around December 28



If I bought a UTWS5 it would need be for my FH3's which are currently on my FiiO Neckband as my new FH7 would be wasted on Bluetooth IMO.

I ordered my BTA30 PRO from a seller on AliExpress and had in 9 days.


----------



## Nick24JJ

helmutcheese said:


> If I bought a UTWS5 it would need be for my FH3's which are currently on my FiiO Neckband as my new FH7 would be wasted on Bluetooth IMO.
> 
> I ordered my BTA30 PRO from a seller on AliExpress and had in 9 days.


I bought the FH5s for the UTWS5 because it won't be able to drive my TRI I3 properly. We'll see...

I had an order placed for the UTWS5 on a seller on AliExpress since November 17. But it was not available, it was just a preorder, like it is now on that other store (above). I'm not sure if the FiiO store actually has them, but at least it is their official store. I really hope I will receive it earlier!


----------



## helmutcheese (Dec 1, 2021)

There is one seller selling them for £59 then a few more £ off via a discount voucher (claims to be in stock and 4 sold, 1 more since in the time it took me to post this) but he has no feedback and his store only opened in late Oct 2021 so a bit risky, I will not link to them for obv reasons.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

dweaver said:


> This is exactly what I am hoping for. My only wish on the AZ70 was a bit more bass. I prefer a bit brighter sound most of the time so will like that aspect.
> 
> Now I just have to wait for them to arrive... Patiently... LOL


Keep in mind the AZ70's bottom end fills out when ANC or hearthrough are activated. I'm not personally a fan of the change in tuning as a result and have grown more fond of its airiness instead.

But glad to hear you're getting your hands on the next gen. Curious to see what you think of them, especially considering how long you've stood by the AZ70s.

In my case, it seems the touch controls don't register, so I can't factory reset or pair to a new device. Out of frustration, it's gone into the drawer until I'm ready to fiddle with it again.

Truth be told, the CX400BT and UE FITS get the vast majority of playtime here lately.


----------



## BooleanBones

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Keep in mind the AZ70's bottom end fills out when ANC or hearthrough are activated. I'm not personally a fan of the change in tuning as a result and have grown more fond of its airiness instead.
> 
> But glad to hear you're getting your hands on the next gen. Curious to see what you think of them, especially considering how long you've stood by the AZ70s.
> 
> ...


Good to see you back sir


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

BooleanBones said:


> Good to see you back sir


It's a slow roll in, but feels good brother. Funnily enough, haven't bought anything new except for a pair of the XM4 over-ears since I left. Have given far more away since. That Fokus has my attention, though...

What's new?


----------



## BooleanBones

miserybeforethemusic said:


> It's a slow roll in, but feels good brother. Funnily enough, haven't bought anything new except for a pair of the XM4 over-ears since I left. Have given far more away since. That Fokus has my attention, though...
> 
> What's new?


A whole lot of trials and feedbacks. (and work of course). Great deals on those XM4s lately, hope you are enjoying them. Got the new Denons coming Friday out of curiosity which I hope sound good, but am expecting the worst


----------



## scubaphish

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Keep in mind the AZ70's bottom end fills out when ANC or hearthrough are activated. I'm not personally a fan of the change in tuning as a result and have grown more fond of its airiness instead.
> 
> But glad to hear you're getting your hands on the next gen. Curious to see what you think of them, especially considering how long you've stood by the AZ70s.
> 
> ...


Wonderful to read you again!!!  There’s a set of AKG N400NC TWS that have been peaking my interest of late.


----------



## scubaphish

BooleanBones said:


> A whole lot of trials and feedbacks. (and work of course). Great deals on those XM4s lately, hope you are enjoying them. Got the new Denons coming Friday out of curiosity which I hope sound good, but am expecting the worst


Excellent way to manage your expectations. Man, I get it.  I’ll do the “expecting the best” for you.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic (Dec 1, 2021)

BooleanBones said:


> A whole lot of trials and feedbacks. (and work of course). Great deals on those XM4s lately, hope you are enjoying them. Got the new Denons coming Friday out of curiosity which I hope sound good, but am expecting the worst


Depends on who they let tune it, I suppose. Could be very similar to the mu3 in terms of sig, which isn't exactly a bad thing.



scubaphish said:


> Wonderful to read you again!!!  There’s a set of AKG N400NC TWS that have been peaking my interest of late.


Thanks, friend! I'm a little apprehensive with AKG products since Samsung basically bought the name and outsourced the tuning. The reliable AKG engineers went off to make Austrian Audio, so I don't know how much of the legacy you're going to see in the N400. If they manage to stick to the Harman target and can somehow adjust for loudness properly, I don't see why they wouldn't sound great, though.

Here's the collection as it stands/remains.


85t are still the all-purpose workhorse, surprisingly, though I really wish the tones on their HearID system were just a hair louder. It's really hard to hear most of the tones, but the system overall is pretty effective.

FITS can just be worn practically forever and the DD inside has really matured, helping the low end come out. They're still considerably more neutral than most pairs out there, but it's so good on execution/technicalities.

The Club Pro+ have been the really surprising pair. Their ANC and hearthrough are still pretty weak, but serviceable enough to justify use. They're dead simple to pair up. Wireless charging works flawlessly. EPro tips make these practically perfect for fit and seal.

Unfortunately, the WH3 no longer charges via the USB-C port, but wireless charging does. Think I've gotten one update for the entire lifecycle of the product. Sound sig and lack of support really don't justify the purchase and it seems the WH2 brings more of the same. There's a little bit of hope now that the WH3 is registered in the AutoEQ database, but even it's not enough of a correction to make these worth what they're asking.

We all know about the MTs. I don't have the volume issues anymore. The occasional disconnection still happens, but it's very rare. Still recommend these for the sound signature.

The ADVs are...fine. they'd do the trick if you wanted an aptX pair that was no-fuss, but the mic could really be improved to use as a conference pair. They're very well built, though.

Falcon Pros are still the detail champs of the TWS bunch. The preamp controls finally seem to stick, letting me reliably use aptX adaptive without the artifacting. Using Neutron's AGP really helps.

And the CX400BT? Just fantastic for creating a mood around the music. Can't knock them for that. Still were never worth $200.

The story learned over this journey? Take breaks. You learn way more about your equipment when you just allow yourself to "exist" with it.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Depends on who they let tune it, I suppose. Could be very similar to the mu3 in terms of sig, which isn't exactly a bad thing.
> 
> 
> Thanks, friend! I'm a little apprehensive with AKG products since Samsung basically bought the name and outsourced the tuning. The reliable AKG engineers went off to make Austrian Audio, so I don't know how much of the legacy you're going to see in the N400. If they manage to stick to the Harman target and can somehow adjust for loudness properly, I don't see why they wouldn't sound great, though.
> ...


Should also mention the 85t are the reigning champs of connection time and quality. They're always connected by the time I get them from the case to my ear. Would be perfect if they supported better codecs and both Left/Right independent use. Really hope they don't mess up the refresh.

The slowest? Sennheiser by a country mile. Usually anywhere from 20-30 seconds consistently.


----------



## Tommy C (Dec 1, 2021)

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Keep in mind the AZ70's bottom end fills out when ANC or hearthrough are activated. I'm not personally a fan of the change in tuning as a result and have grown more fond of its airiness instead.
> 
> But glad to hear you're getting your hands on the next gen. Curious to see what you think of them, especially considering how long you've stood by the AZ70s.
> 
> ...


Welcome back, man. Good to see you again.
You’re the reason I got the Sennheiser CX 400BT a while back and must say they are excellent and for a great price.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

Tommy C said:


> Welcome back, man. Good to see you again.
> You’re the reason I got the Sennheiser CX 400BT a while back and must say they are excellent and for a great price.


That roller-coaster of a purchase experience lol? Yep, they turned out to fit a surprisingly useful niche in the collection. Definitely not the stalwarts of detail retrieval, but pretty fantastic for musicality.

Did anybody ever figure out how to properly utilize that EQ?


----------



## Tommy C

miserybeforethemusic said:


> That roller-coaster of a purchase experience lol? Yep, they turned out to fit a surprisingly useful niche in the collection. Definitely not the stalwarts of detail retrieval, but pretty fantastic for musicality.
> 
> Did anybody ever figure out how to properly utilize that EQ?


Hahaha it was an impulse purchase. 
They were on sale locally for a great price plus cash back so it was a no brainer. 
I enjoy them in the evenings when I kick back and chill. Yeah, not the best for details but good enough especially because they sound very natural. 
The eq sucks though. It’s just not responsive enough IMO.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

Tommy C said:


> Hahaha it was an impulse purchase.
> They were on sale locally for a great price plus cash back so it was a no brainer.
> I enjoy them in the evenings when I kick back and chill. Yeah, not the best for details but good enough especially because they sound very natural.
> The eq sucks though. It’s just not responsive enough IMO.


For around-home listening, the Mobius on its Music preset is absolutely fantastic, but I'm afraid that doesn't really qualify as a TWS product. First guy to market to figure out a properly-tuned planar TWS could be sitting on a gold mine.

So next best thing is the FITS. Similar to the Senns, they manage to keep the stage pushed far enough back that it doesn't seem claustrophobic. It's still very much immersive, but not suffocating and I really appreciate that. Hardest part is figuring out how to get the tips back in for a consistently good fit; takes some serious practice.

But impulse purchases are always good. I have an offer from EarFun to take their new units out for a test-drive. Might take them up on the offer and just keep my expectations low. The 1st-gen EFP were great for their price, so I would expect more of the same with the 2nd gen. If only they had a dang app, though...


----------



## dweaver

Well the urge to try something new while I impatiently wait for the AZ60 to arrive overwhelmed me. I was going to try the 75T but the store was sold out so I grabbed the Elite 3 for $79Cad and am scratching the Jabra itch since I have never tried them yet.

Have to say these sound pretty damn good and they are super comfy. Will have to do an A/B to the Sony WF-C500 but first blush I think the Jabra are going to win. Listening to some older Springsteen and they sound pretty damn good with that type of rock...


----------



## dweaver

I am glad I went with the Elite 3. All the other extra features of the 75T will exist in the AZ60 and the Elite 3 is supposed to be less bassy than the 75T and these are at my jumping off point for bass. I can see why the Jabra have been popular. They offer a pretty darn good sound.

I was concerned I might hear the hiss some people complain about but so far they have been good. So either my old man ears can't hear the hiss or my pair doesn't have it. 

The buttons are a bit easier to push than the WF-C500 and these are more comfy. Can't remember who suggested I might prefer these over the Sony's (TommyC??) But who ever said that is correct. 

Unless you strongly prefer the lusher sound of Sony these have nicer vocals in my opinion and with the hear through mode have one very nice to have feature over the Sony. It is a bit weak though, so don't expect much from it.


----------



## Caipirina (Dec 1, 2021)

Just sharing: during 11.11 sale I managed to get the Soundpeats H1 for a measly 39$ and they arrived yesterday.
I am very impressed! They sound way above that price tag. Comfortable fit, volume control on buds. Very nice!

And always on the hunt for something new. Anyone got the Nuarl N10 pro? They are kinda smiling at me for 11798¥ on ‘sale’ …


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

The MT and my phone may be mortal enemies, but they play just fine with the SR25's slightly older (but still aptX-capable) silicon. I can't say there's any sonic benefit to this since the SR25 is only a transport at this point, but the connection is solid and it's got swaths of power and headroom available.

If your only issues were somehow related to having a TWS+ capable phone/device, I'd suggest giving this a try as a means of breathing some life into the pair. Definitely helped me out.


----------



## assassin10000

mag8 said:


> Hey all, i hope you can give me a bit of a purchasing advice.
> 
> I would like to buy a new pair of true wireless NON in-ear earbuds.
> I currently own the sabbat X12 pro, which i find very convenient to keep on my bedside table and fall asleep to. Their battery does not drain if they are still connected but nothing is playing.
> ...



I haven't tried the Vooplay (x12 successor) but @chinmie has it.

If you can find them on sale and stretch your budget another $10-20, the Samsung Buds Live are pretty nice.


----------



## FYLegend

zeinharis said:


> On my rog phone 5 (using WF-1000XM4 LDAC, set to 990kbps) the Bluetooth signal becomes intermittent as soon I switched on the wifi on my phone, but doesn't slow the wifi connection. It happens when I'm using location service on my phone as well.


Interesting, that seems to be the opposite behaviour of Samsung Scalable which is altering the bitrate and I have no control over what it prioritizes. Samsung claims that the bitrate alteration should not be noticeable or lead to chopping, which is far from my experience using the Buds2.

Also while you have BT5.2 on your phone, I wonder if the earbuds being BT5.0 is a bottle neck and whether having both devices as BT5.2 would help much.


----------



## Canabuc

Another listening session with the AZ60. Then with and without LDAC at highest quality.

Bass is not as sound as my Huawei or Liberty 2 pro but it goes deep and is tight with great texture.
There is nice separation and detail. With a bit of eqing in the app I can get the silky female vocals from the AZ70 but with writer sound stage and better low end.
Surprisingly 2 hours listening on LDAC at 60-65% volume and only used about a third of the buds battery. That would suggest up to 6 hours playback time which would be impressive.
 Haven't tried different to sizes which I usually need but these seen pretty good. Will experiment going with different ones in terms of comfort and sound change. They are very secure and think they will be perfect for workouts whereas the AZ70 failed and would fall out all the time.


----------



## adnhussn

Anyone mind sharing their AZ60 EQ settings? Especially if using stock tips and EQing to sound similar to the AZ70.


----------



## chinmie

mag8 said:


> Hey all, i hope you can give me a bit of a purchasing advice.
> 
> I would like to buy a new pair of true wireless NON in-ear earbuds.
> I currently own the sabbat X12 pro, which i find very convenient to keep on my bedside table and fall asleep to. Their battery does not drain if they are still connected but nothing is playing.
> ...





assassin10000 said:


> I haven't tried the Vooplay (x12 successor) but @chinmie has it.
> 
> If you can find them on sale and stretch your budget another $10-20, the Samsung Buds Live are pretty nice.



I agree with assassin10000 here, the Vooplay is good, but if you're looking for a good TWS for phone calls, the Buds Live is hard to beat


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

assassin10000 said:


> I haven't tried the Vooplay (x12 successor) but @chinmie has it.
> 
> If you can find them on sale and stretch your budget another $10-20, the Samsung Buds Live are pretty nice.


I concur with this approach. Aside from the GBL, not sure what else is going to be available anywhere near that price bracket that doesn't try to form some sort of seal.

Found a good deal on a renewed set, @mag8

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08H81FSVL/ref=cm_sw_r_apan_glt_fabc_THZ5FCQCD639CJE2DRDF


----------



## zeinharis

FYLegend said:


> Interesting, that seems to be the opposite behaviour of Samsung Scalable which is altering the bitrate and I have no control over what it prioritizes. Samsung claims that the bitrate alteration should not be noticeable or lead to chopping, which is far from my experience using the Buds2.
> 
> Also while you have BT5.2 on your phone, I wonder if the earbuds being BT5.0 is a bottle neck and whether having both devices as BT5.2 would help much.



I still have my Aviot TE-D01G (having one of the best timbre, even against the XM4 especially on the upper frequencies) which have BT5.0 and it sounds great out of my rog phone 5, the buds connects to the phone via Aptx TWS+. I prefer to use all my buds with my rog phone, cause it's got Aptx and LDAC vs ACC on my iPhone 11, I know that Apple have better implementation on AAC but still Aptx steals the cake in terms of sound quality at least to my ears.


----------



## dweaver

AZ60 in the house!!!! Damn I wish I saved my money buying the Elite 3 yesterday. Not that there is anything wrong with them, but these are definitely going to be my go to TWS. Ah well at least I got to finally hear a pair of Jabra. Nice little TWS for anyone on a tight budget.

But these AZ60 are in another level audio wise and a tad bit more comfy I think too. ANC is slightly better than the AZ70 I think as well and I really like their new tips...

If I didn't know any better I would think Technics paid attention to what people said about the AZ70...

The bass is definitely bigger and might need to be tamed down just a smidge but first blush was awesome!


----------



## Ceeluh7

dweaver said:


> AZ60 in the house!!!! Damn I wish I saved my money buying the Elite 3 yesterday. Not that there is anything wrong with them, but these are definitely going to be my go to TWS. Ah well at least I got to finally hear a pair of Jabra. Nice little TWS for anyone on a tight budget.
> 
> But these AZ60 are in another level audio wise and a tad bit more comfy I think too. ANC is slightly better than the AZ70 I think as well and I really like their new tips...
> 
> ...


It a great set man. I agree 100% about the tips. Nice and tacky rubber that is firm enough while still sealing really well. You may want to remove the foam inserted in the tips, or not. I'm glad you like em, Technics did a good job on this set.


----------



## dweaver

Just did an AB test of Patricia Barber Smash using FLAC file going between AAC and LDAC at highest but rate.

LDAC definitely sounds better with a bit of extra dynamics, added detail, space. But I may end up living with AAC during the day for multipoint connectivity between PC and phone for Teams. The sound difference is present but most of the time I won't have the time to focus and truly notice the difference.

I may just be at the end of my search for a TWS that gives me what I want...


----------



## dweaver

I am thinking I will leave the tips alone. That foam is not bothering me one bit and removing it might make these a bit to hot sounding in the treble.


----------



## Canabuc

dweaver said:


> AZ60 in the house!!!! Damn I wish I saved my money buying the Elite 3 yesterday. Not that there is anything wrong with them, but these are definitely going to be my go to TWS. Ah well at least I got to finally hear a pair of Jabra. Nice little TWS for anyone on a tight budget.
> 
> But these AZ60 are in another level audio wise and a tad bit more comfy I think too. ANC is slightly better than the AZ70 I think as well and I really like their new tips...
> 
> ...


I actually raised the bass a bit to add some fullness to the sound. I use Samsung phone that does a hearing test and already adjust the sound for my aging ears so that it raises frequencies volume I do t hear as well like Hear ID on soundcore. As such these have plenty of highs for me with that setting.
Amazing at the tight detailed bass and treble detail.
LDAC is impressive too. It just opens sound up a bit like letting a good wine breathe.


----------



## dweaver

OK, I know I am posting during the honeymoon phase, so take that into account reading my posts but Holy Crap these sound good!!!! I tried @musicphotolife EQ and it does not make these the same as the AZ70 but close in regards to signature. I ended up tweaking that EQ a bit giving a bit more low end as I wanted more low end and edged the upper registers up a bit when I switch off the EQ the change is not massive but I do hear and appreciate the difference. But if I had no EQ I could live with the stock signature comfortably.

Went from Patricia Barber to Queen for a few songs, then switched over to Pink Floyd, back to Jazz with Mile Davis (Concierto de Aranjuez) and finished with Nellie McKay (Zombie) which has great 3D imaging and is a good song to see if a headphone can do 3D imaging and these sound amazing with every one of those genre's. As I am typing below started to listen to the sound track for Interstellar and OH MY the bass is sublime when called for in the song...

The bass is simply awesome, its big and expansive with excellent detail and timbre, not one note like so many headphones. The midrange is super clean and detailed giving singers like Patricia Barber their sense of emotion, treble is spot on for me reproducing cymbals with clarity and nice sparkle without sounding harsh.

Are these the best TWS out there? Probably not, but for my ears they have EVERYTHING I want sonically speaking and at $200 CAD I don't think there is anything at this price point that is going to touch these. 

I am going to be happily selling off all my other TWS and possibly some of my over ear headphones, these are simply going to make them unnecessary...


----------



## Canabuc

dweaver said:


> OK, I know I am posting during the honeymoon phase, so take that into account reading my posts but Holy Crap these sound good!!!! I tried @musicphotolife EQ and it does not make these the same as the AZ70 but close in regards to signature. I ended up tweaking that EQ a bit giving a bit more low end as I wanted more low end and edged the upper registers up a bit when I switch off the EQ the change is not massive but I do hear and appreciate the difference. But if I had no EQ I could live with the stock signature comfortably.
> 
> Went from Patricia Barber to Queen for a few songs, then switched over to Pink Floyd, back to Jazz with Mile Davis (Concierto de Aranjuez) and finished with Nellie McKay (Zombie) which has great 3D imaging and is a good song to see if a headphone can do 3D imaging and these sound amazing with every one of those genre's. As I am typing below started to listen to the sound track for Interstellar and OH MY the bass is sublime when called for in the song...
> 
> ...


Knew you would love em!
We are coming from different ends of sonic preferences but these seem to be a perfect middle.
The spaciousness and detail of the sound especially with LDAC is amazing and rivals my Moondrop Aria.
Yet it preserves enough bass to satisfy me and it is a great bass! Not muddy or flabby. It doesn't mask any other parts of the sound. It extends deep but with resolution and is taut.

Even after a few hours I find the sound has gotten better. Not a burn in per se but may e the driver's just need to go for a bit.


----------



## dweaver

Canabuc said:


> Knew you would love em!
> We are coming from different ends of sonic preferences but these seem to be a perfect middle.
> The spaciousness and detail of the sound especially with LDAC is amazing and rivals my Moondrop Aria.
> Yet it preserves enough bass to satisfy me and it is a great bass! Not muddy or flabby. It doesn't mask any other parts of the sound. It extends deep but with resolution and is taut.
> ...


You were soooooooo correct! 

The bass really is special, its versatile enough you can scale it back if to much and as you mentioned it GREAT BASS not just big bass. Listening to Interstellar sent shivers down my spine at points due to the bass. It actually rivals the Sony XBA-Z5 in this regard (from memory as my pair had a failure in the MMCX connector so is now a $700 pile of rubble...).

I love the fact it doesn't mask over the other parts of the sound spectrum. I get all that bass when I want it but still can hear everything else with clarity.

This is the first TWS and head/earphone in quite a while that has wowed me and allowed me to get lost in the music. It is the first LDAC implementation I have been actually impressed with. I think it was @Ceeluh7  who mentioned that LDAC has been a swing and a miss with TWS. I actually think its been a swing and a miss with all BT at points, but the AZ60 may be the exception to the rule...

I haven't tried them out and about to much yet but my one quick 20 minute walk was pretty good (reduced the ANC a bit and that seemed to help with wind) but have not had enough wind to say for sure. Also have not had enough phone calls yet to say how good the MIC is and have not had a chance to test their multi-point capability.

Letting them recharge (never really let them charge out of the box) and will then do some more serious LDAC testing as most of the day I just used them in AAC and was satisfied.


----------



## dweaver

Has anyone noticed differences in sound going for LDAC best effort to highest bitrate? I can't hear a difference and am thinking I might just use the best effort setting to ensure better connectivity. Maybe my old man ears aren't golden enough to detect the nuances...

Just tried Arvo Part Symphony No 3 and really like the kettle drums as well as brass section in the song, nice impact in the drums and brass sounded very nice. It kicked from that song to a choral piece with a big organ and bells and it sounded sublime because I could feel the organ.


----------



## BooleanBones

dweaver said:


> I may just be at the end of my search for a TWS that gives me what I want...


Uh huh, famous last words.


----------



## dweaver

adnhussn said:


> Anyone mind sharing their AZ60 EQ settings? Especially if using stock tips and EQing to sound similar to the AZ70.


Check out @musicphotolife review, he has an EQ picture of what he uses. I don't think it's 100% accurate to the AZ70 but it's closer for sure.


----------



## dweaver

Lam3r_co. said:


> I'm slowly coming to terms with this, but where's the limitation? Is it because the L/R are always slightly out of phase due to dual DAC? I'm not listening to lossless audio either, just spotify premium on highest preset, while at move.
> 
> Re: AZ70, aren't they using the same dynamic driver as the Panasonic RZ-S500WE I currently own? I was actually thinking whether I should look for balanced armature TWSs, but from my research, these are mostly unknown brands from China.
> 
> In any case, thank you very much for your comments. I'll try to find somewhere I can listen to the AZ60 or AZ70


Now that I have both I thought I would give a comparison. The AZ70 is definitely more like the Etymotic sound than the AZ60. So if you want a much more balanced bass the AZ70 is definitely the route to go. 

Having said that, the AZ60 has bigger but articulate bass that's definitely not one noted and it can be toned down in the app so might be worth trying if you can demo them both.

If your an Android user, LDAC definitely adds to the musicality of the headphone. Having said that I have also been testing AAC because I want to use these with my PC simultaneously during the day for Teams meeting and am happy with how these sound on a less than optimal AAC source in my Samsung S20.


----------



## erockg

BooleanBones said:


> Uh huh, famous last words.


Honeymoons are nice.  Until you get to know them.


----------



## Ceeluh7

dweaver said:


> Has anyone noticed differences in sound going for LDAC best effort to highest bitrate? I can't hear a difference and am thinking I might just use the best effort setting to ensure better connectivity. Maybe my old man ears aren't golden enough to detect the nuances...
> 
> Just tried Arvo Part Symphony No 3 and really like the kettle drums as well as brass section in the song, nice impact in the drums and brass sounded very nice. It kicked from that song to a choral piece with a big organ and bells and it sounded sublime because I could feel the organ.


I can't really tell a difference. Ldac in itself helps open things up a bit it seems but going from a "best effort" to "audio focused" is not much of a difference unless you are streaming and even then it is hard to tell, at least for me. I play music in my library for the most part and it normally keeps the highest bitrate on best effort.


----------



## Ceeluh7

dweaver said:


> Now that I have both I thought I would give a comparison. The AZ70 is definitely more like the Etymotic sound than the AZ60. So if you want a much more balanced bass the AZ70 is definitely the route to go.
> 
> Having said that, the AZ60 has bigger but articulate bass that's definitely not one noted and it can be toned down in the app so might be worth trying if you can demo them both.
> 
> If your an Android user, LDAC definitely adds to the musicality of the headphone. Having said that I have also been testing AAC because I want to use these with my PC simultaneously during the day for Teams meeting and am happy with how these sound on a less than optimal AAC source in my Samsung S20.


AZ60 are Def nice and it's awesome to see someone really enjoying something here... It's mostly just a bunch of tales of let downs... Lol. I decided to take the AZ60 back for minor issues but I did really enjoy them. Pretty cool man


----------



## dweaver

Ceeluh7 said:


> I can't really tell a difference. Ldac in itself helps open things up a bit it seems but going from a "best effort" to "audio focused" is not much of a difference unless you are streaming and even then it is hard to tell, at least for me. I play music in my library for the most part and it normally keeps the highest bitrate on best effort.


That night explain things alot. I am only using my own FLAC files, no streaming of any kind.


----------



## BooleanBones

erockg said:


> Honeymoons are nice.  Until you get to know them.


Exactly


----------



## dweaver

erockg said:


> Honeymoons are nice.  Until you get to know them.


I know, I know!, at first it's all, oh what a beautiful melodic voice... Then it becomes, why are you shouting at me all the time!!! LMAO

Will see how I feel in a few days. But so far very happy. I don't think I will be pulling out the foam in the tips though, I have a feeling that would not work well for me. Might try some Sony Hybrid tips though, easy enough test and I think they will fit OK.


----------



## erockg

Ceeluh7 said:


> AZ60 are Def nice and it's awesome to see someone really enjoying something here... It's mostly just a bunch of tales of let downs... Lol. I decided to take the AZ60 back for minor issues but I did really enjoy them. Pretty cool man


Same here.  Too much sibilance for my liking.  Thought I could EQ it out and it just never left.  Moved on and grabbed a pair of those sale AKG N400s and continued my obsession with B&O.  Couldn't be happier right now.  Although, the FoKus Pro are haunting me and my wallet at night.


----------



## BooleanBones

erockg said:


> Same here.  Too much sibilance for my liking.  Thought I could EQ it out and it just never left.  Moved on and grabbed a pair of those sale AKG N400s and continued my obsession with B&O.  Couldn't be happier right now.  Although, the FoKus Pro are haunting me and my wallet at night.


Any noticeable differences post update?


----------



## erockg (Dec 2, 2021)

BooleanBones said:


> Any noticeable differences post update?


RE: The B&O EQs - Adjustable ANC, Transparency for both music and calls works great.  Still have that pop on some tracks but only when ANC is on, so I still bet the ANC mic is picking up vibration.  This doesn't happen on the E8 Sports I just picked up on Black Friday weekend.


----------



## Ceeluh7

erockg said:


> Same here.  Too much sibilance for my liking.  Thought I could EQ it out and it just never left.  Moved on and grabbed a pair of those sale AKG N400s and continued my obsession with B&O.  Couldn't be happier right now.  Although, the FoKus Pro are haunting me and my wallet at night.


Dude... You and me both with the Focus. I am so ready to pull the trigger. Crinacle really loved the N400s. I imagine they must be a pretty decent step up from the galaxy buds plus. Kind of follow the same tuning maybe? Harmanish. They were almost unheard of for quite some time and were stuck at 200 bucks for awhile. I bet they are really nice. As far as the AZ60... The sibilance was too much for me as well, once I heard it I couldn't un-hear it and for 240 bucks.... I don't want to say anything bad about them as they really are a good set of earbuds and do alot of things really great. There were a couple other things that didn't mesh with my Library that well so.... Took em back and got the Nuratrue and damn... These earbuds are fantastic to me. I'm always looking though... Lol. Either Falcon Pro or Focus is next.


----------



## erockg

Ceeluh7 said:


> Dude... You and me both with the Focus. I am so ready to pull the trigger. Crinacle really loved the N400s. I imagine they must be a pretty decent step up from the galaxy buds plus. Kind of follow the same tuning maybe? Harmanish. They were almost unheard of for quite some time and were stuck at 200 bucks for awhile. I bet they are really nice. As far as the AZ60... The sibilance was too much for me as well, once I heard it I couldn't un-hear it and for 240 bucks.... I don't want to say anything bad about them as they really are a good set of earbuds and do alot of things really great. There were a couple other things that didn't mesh with my Library that well so.... Took em back and got the Nuratrue and damn... These earbuds are fantastic to me. I'm always looking though... Lol. Either Falcon Pro or Focus is next.


For that price, totally grab the AKG (if they're still $69).  Def Harman curvy.  I'm really digging them.  Better than the AZ60s IMO, but I truly love sub-bass in my hard rock/metal.  If my head shakes from the inside, I'm good.  I truly wanted to love the AZs.  For the price, those Nuratrue are great.  I thought they felt kind of cheap, but the sound... good stuff.  I had the Falcon's which fit like the Lypertek Z7.  Similar but Falcons sounded better to me.  Both fit odd for my ears after a while.  Spent a lot of time adjusting them.  The FoKus look to have more of an IEM fit like a Moondrop IEM.  Can't fine any reviews to confirm this but I have a feeling one of us all will take the plunge soon!


----------



## Ceeluh7

erockg said:


> Adjustable ANC, Transparency for both music and calls works great.  Still have that pop on some tracks but only when ANC is on, so I still bet the ANC mic is picking up vibration.  This doesn't happen on the E8 Sports I just picked up on Black Friday weekend.


You got the e8 sport, we talked about that... Man I shouldn't have let that slide by... Stupid me. Hey so when you are listening to music do you have your phone out most of the time for skipping tracks and such. I was just curious because of the odd touch controls of the B&O EQ. I'm wondering if it will actually bother me that much. I guess if I'm just chilling and listening to music I have my phone in hand anyways. The only time I'd really need skipping tracks is like for cutting grass but I would never use a 400 dollar pair for that purpose....


----------



## Ceeluh7

erockg said:


> For that price, totally grab the AKG (if they're still $69).  Def Harman curvy.  I'm really digging them.  Better than the AZ60s IMO, but I truly love sub-bass in my hard rock/metal.  If my head shakes from the inside, I'm good.  I truly wanted to love the AZs.  For the price, those Nuratrue are great.  I thought they felt kind of cheap, but the sound... good stuff.  I had the Falcon's which fit like the Lypertek Z7.  Similar but Falcons sounded better to me.  Both fit odd for my ears after a while.  Spent a lot of time adjusting them.  The FoKus look to have more of an IEM fit like a Moondrop IEM.  Can't fine any reviews to confirm this but I have a feeling one of us all will take the plunge soon!


I completely agree about the odd fit of the Z7. Actually they fit me nice but they stick out so damn far man and the button controls are difficult. SQ is great but little things hold them back. I am mostly after the fokus honestly. As far as music, I couldn't agree more about the Bass of the AZ60, it wasn't bad at all but for my music I need that guteral deep bass as well at times and it just didn't get there. That is a must for me.


----------



## erockg

Ceeluh7 said:


> You got the e8 sport, we talked about that... Man I shouldn't have let that slide by... Stupid me. Hey so when you are listening to music do you have your phone out most of the time for skipping tracks and such. I was just curious because of the odd touch controls of the B&O EQ. I'm wondering if it will actually bother me that much. I guess if I'm just chilling and listening to music I have my phone in hand anyways. The only time I'd really need skipping tracks is like for cutting grass but I would never use a 400 dollar pair for that purpose....


I'm sure those E8 Sports will go on sale again.  Monitor Amazon/BB.  I usually have my phone nearby, but I'm not a huge track skipper.  I put on some ePro tips on the EQ and use them for hours.  The last time I purchased them I bought them off Amazon and added an Asurion warranty to be safe.  B&O is notoriously slow for warranty claims, but they do come through.  Last time I had issues with an electronic, I just filed a claim with Asurion, they shot me a UPS return label and when UPS scanned it, they reimbursed me for the full price of the gear via an Amazon gc.  Sort of like what Best Buy does on headphones with Geek Squad Warranties.  I don't have much grass here in LA to cut, usually use my B&O while WFH, walks or while waiting for my threenager to fall asleep.  Nothing that I'd truly need track skipping for.  The case is gorgeous and they really did a great job on this incarnation.


----------



## erockg

Ceeluh7 said:


> I completely agree about the odd fit of the Z7. Actually they fit me nice but they stick out so damn far man and the button controls are difficult. SQ is great but little things hold them back. I am mostly after the fokus honestly. As far as music, I couldn't agree more about the Bass of the AZ60, it wasn't bad at all but for my music I need that guteral deep bass as well at times and it just didn't get there. That is a must for me.


Totally agree with you about the AZ60s.  The Falcons have tap controls, they were definitely easier to control.  I know the FoKus lacks a lot of what the Falcon has but they supposedly tweaked for sound quality.  Who knows!  It's Hanukkah/Christmas holiday combo here so maybe I'll link the wife.  Can't find many reviews online about them yet.  Listening to some of the new BLS right now and Zakk Wylde shreds on the lead track - Heaven on the EQs.


----------



## Ceeluh7

erockg said:


> Totally agree with you about the AZ60s.  The Falcons have tap controls, they were definitely easier to control.  I know the FoKus lacks a lot of what the Falcon has but they supposedly tweaked for sound quality.  Who knows!  It's Hanukkah/Christmas holiday combo here so maybe I'll link the wife.  Can't find many reviews online about them yet.  Listening to some of the new BLS right now and Zakk Wylde shreds on the lead track - Heaven on the EQs.


That last sentence man... Your Killin me. I've heard a few reviews describe the EQ as the best SQ out there right now and so many people can't be wrong. I'm just going to actually practice some patience on this next purchase.. Ha. Keep my eyes peeled for sure


----------



## Canabuc

dweaver said:


> Has anyone noticed differences in sound going for LDAC best effort to highest bitrate? I can't hear a difference and am thinking I might just use the best effort setting to ensure better connectivity. Maybe my old man ears aren't golden enough to detect the nuances...



I read an article that talked about the different ldac speeds. Using the lowest bit rate setting of 330 it is in fact in some ways inferior to aptx. However at the 660 setting which is the middle setting it is providing approximately CD quality. And at the highest setting it is giving near full high res but not quite as good as wired. My plan is when at home on Wi-Fi I will use the highest setting. Only if I notice some stuttering or breakups will I consider moving down to a different setting.


----------



## Canabuc

dweaver said:


> Check out @musicphotolife review, he has an EQ picture of what he uses. I don't think it's 100% accurate to the AZ70 but it's closer for sure.



Without looking at his settings I stumbled upon the same settings for the upper three bands of the equalizer but for the bass bands I actually have them in reverse going above the neutral range as I like a little more punch in my bass.


----------



## Canabuc

erockg said:


> Honeymoons are nice.  Until you get to know them.


There will always be something better that comes out.
However, these really hot the sweet spot in terms of price sound functionality and fit.

Any sonic improvements will require newer codecs that are higher bandwidth and better battery technology. Right now the limitation of TWS is cramming so much into a small housing whereas an item of similar size needs no electronics.


----------



## TooPoorForHiFi (Dec 2, 2021)

Seeking Comparison between Sony's XM4 Vs Buds Pro TWS in terms of Sound Quality, Don't care much for ANC.

Thanks.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

dweaver said:


> Has anyone noticed differences in sound going for LDAC best effort to highest bitrate? I can't hear a difference and am thinking I might just use the best effort setting to ensure better connectivity. Maybe my old man ears aren't golden enough to detect the nuances...


You really won't unless the source material needs it. I don't think 990 (aka highest bitrate) is even utilized unless I put on 24/96 material. Most Redbook stuff seems to fit well within the 660kbps bandwidth.

Won't hurt to leave it at Highest Bitrate though, as I'm pretty sure it's still adaptive and scalable.


----------



## erockg

Canabuc said:


> There will always be something better that comes out.
> However, these really hot the sweet spot in terms of price sound functionality and fit.
> 
> Any sonic improvements will require newer codecs that are higher bandwidth and better battery technology. Right now the limitation of TWS is cramming so much into a small housing whereas an item of similar size needs no electronics.


Yep, I know.  I actually had a fit issue with them.  They hurt my ears after a few hours.  I did love the ANC and Transparency mode for sure.  And VERY MUCH preferred them over the AZ70s.


----------



## Canabuc

miserybeforethemusic said:


> You really won't unless the source material needs it. I don't think 990 (aka highest bitrate) is even utilized unless I put on 24/96 material. Most Redbook stuff seems to fit well within the 660kbps bandwidth.
> 
> Won't hurt to leave it at Highest Bitrate though, as I'm pretty sure it's still adaptive and scalable.


On Amazon HD unlimited
"Amazon refers to HD tracks as having a ”bit depth of 16-bits, a minimum sample rate of 44.1 kHz (also referred to as CD-quality), and an average bitrate of 850 kbps”. UHD tracks, on the other hand, “have a bit depth of 24-bits, sample rates ranging from 44.1 kHz up to 192 kHz, and an average bitrate of 3730 kbps"


----------



## miserybeforethemusic (Dec 2, 2021)

Canabuc said:


> On Amazon HD unlimited
> "Amazon refers to HD tracks as having a ”bit depth of 16-bits, a minimum sample rate of 44.1 kHz (also referred to as CD-quality), and an average bitrate of 850 kbps”. UHD tracks, on the other hand, “have a bit depth of 24-bits, sample rates ranging from 44.1 kHz up to 192 kHz, and an average bitrate of 3730 kbps"


Amazon Music also has a chronic problem with reporting bitrates to host devices. Drove me nuts on the SR25, to the point where I just don't bother with the platform altogether, but I digress.

The misnomer with LDAC, however, is in that it's an inherently lossy codec. Content is compressed prior to transfer, so the bitrates of the source file won't match the bitrate by the receiving device.


Good news is it's really hard to detect any of that compression/decompression happening with LDAC when it's well-implemented. Certainly favor it over aptX Adaptive, which still has a lot of wrinkles to iron out and a lower max throughout.

This article doesn't go fully into it, but you can kinda read between the lines:
https://www.soundguys.com/ldac-ultimate-bluetooth-guide-20026/


----------



## Canabuc

Well trchnobabble aside, I can honestly say I hear a legitimate improvement in using ldac over AAC. Or rather the higher resolution and bitrate of Amazon HD via LDAC vs AAC from YouTube music.


----------



## Tommy C

Off-topic but for those who consume streamed music, what's your (ideally free) go-to app with the best sound quality?
My favorite music app is currently Deezer and their sound quality is excellent. LiveXLive isn't too shabby as well.
I find Spotify to have poor sound quality and low volume as well.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

Tommy C said:


> Off-topic but for those who consume streamed music, what's your (ideally free) go-to app with the best sound quality?
> My favorite music app is currently Deezer and their sound quality is excellent. LiveXLive isn't too shabby as well.
> I find Spotify to have poor sound quality and low volume as well.


Are you browsing from mobile or your computer? Personally, I prefer Bandcamp. Tends to have a lot more of the unsigned, hidden-gem talent out there.



Canabuc said:


> Well trchnobabble aside, I can honestly say I hear a legitimate improvement in using ldac over AAC. Or rather the higher resolution and bitrate of Amazon HD via LDAC vs AAC from YouTube music.


Didn't mean to dig at you, but saw a good opportunity to discuss it. That article is really informative, especially when it mentions how dependent signal strength is on bitrate. Figured that's pretty important.

Glad you're seeing a quality boost with LDAC!


----------



## Canabuc

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Are you browsing from mobile or your computer? Personally, I prefer Bandcamp. Tends to have a lot more of the unsigned, hidden-gem talent out there.
> 
> 
> Didn't mean to dig at you, but saw a good opportunity to discuss it. That article is really informative, especially when it mentions how dependent signal strength is on bitrate. Figured that's pretty important.
> ...


No worries.
Read this which was my point against lower bit rate LDAC .

https://www.soundguys.com/ldac-ulti...MQAQ&usg=AOvVaw1j78GnI0bw39PW7Xk639vQ&ampcf=1


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

Canabuc said:


> No worries.
> Read this which was my point against lower bit rate LDAC .
> 
> https://www.soundguys.com/ldac-ulti...MQAQ&usg=AOvVaw1j78GnI0bw39PW7Xk639vQ&ampcf=1


Yeah 330 is an issue; distortion appearing at 15k and up would easily be audible. Guess 660/990 is preferred if you can lock it in (it's in Developer Options).


----------



## BooleanBones

Canabuc said:


> Well trchnobabble aside, I can honestly say I hear a legitimate improvement in using ldac over AAC. Or rather the higher resolution and bitrate of Amazon HD via LDAC vs AAC from YouTube music.


I have not had much luck getting LDAC to


Canabuc said:


> Well trchnobabble aside, I can honestly say I hear a legitimate improvement in using ldac over AAC. Or rather the higher resolution and bitrate of Amazon HD via LDAC vs AAC from YouTube music.


Are you downloading to your device or streaming (may have missed you saying this)? Have you tried their Ultra HD tracks yet? I will get the walkman out and play some tracks again. I got too irritated with it last time I was listening for differences on Amazon  I do know I ended up downloading them and going into airplane mode in order to get some stability in the connection. This thread was meant for the walkman settings, but alot of it is general settings and discussion with LDAC. Might give you some additional settings to work with using LDAC. https://www.head-fi.org/threads/the-sony-40th-anniversary-walkman-thread.909629/page-156


----------



## miserybeforethemusic (Dec 2, 2021)

BooleanBones said:


> I have not had much luck getting LDAC to
> 
> Are you downloading to your device or streaming (may have missed you saying this)? Have you tried their Ultra HD tracks yet? I will get the walkman out and play some tracks again. I got too irritated with it last time I was listening for differences on Amazon  I do know I ended up downloading them and going into airplane mode in order to get some stability in the connection. This thread was meant for the walkman settings, but alot of it is general settings and discussion with LDAC. Might give you some additional settings to work with using LDAC. https://www.head-fi.org/threads/the-sony-40th-anniversary-walkman-thread.909629/page-156


Another setting to keep in mind, if you know you won't listen to anything higher than Redbook (16/44), is to lock in that bit-depth and sample rate in Developer Options (Qudelix 5K owners might recognize this method). For some reason, it helps with throughput and, theoretically, SQ in that use case.



But keep in mind it won't revert if you try to play something Hi-Res later; made that mistake a couple times :/


----------



## Canabuc

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Yeah 330 is an issue; distortion appearing at 15k and up would easily be audible. Guess 660/990 is preferred if you can lock it in (it's in Developer Options).


Have mine set for 990. If my plan is to multitask and want connection to iPad/PC and phone at same time will drop to AAC and take advantage of multipoint.

Originally was wanting the xm4 but got these for 60% the cost and enjoy having multipoint and all controls on the buds. ANC is not quite same level bit is very good and mic quality reported better though haven't tried yet.
Really only thing I miss is Wireless charging bit to be honest it's a feature I realize I over value as I only need to charge the (tiny) case every week or 2.


----------



## Canabuc

BooleanBones said:


> I have not had much luck getting LDAC to
> 
> Are you downloading to your device or streaming (may have missed you saying this)? Have you tried their Ultra HD tracks yet? I will get the walkman out and play some tracks again. I got too irritated with it last time I was listening for differences on Amazon  I do know I ended up downloading them and going into airplane mode in order to get some stability in the connection. This thread was meant for the walkman settings, but alot of it is general settings and discussion with LDAC. Might give you some additional settings to work with using LDAC. https://www.head-fi.org/threads/the-sony-40th-anniversary-walkman-thread.909629/page-156


Have been streaming Amazon music.
All tracks are at least HD which is cd quality and much higher bit rate than Spotify etc.
Many tracks are ultra HD.
Both sound amazing and noticeably better with LDAC.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

Canabuc said:


> Have mine set for 990. If my plan is to multitask and want connection to iPad/PC and phone at same time will drop to AAC and take advantage of multipoint.
> 
> Originally was wanting the xm4 but got these for 60% the cost and enjoy having multipoint and all controls on the buds. ANC is not quite same level bit is very good and mic quality reported better though haven't tried yet.
> Really only thing I miss is Wireless charging bit to be honest it's a feature I realize I over value as I only need to charge the (tiny) case every week or 2.


Comes in handy if the USB port dies lol (tsk tsk HiBy)


----------



## Canabuc

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Comes in handy if the USB port dies lol (tsk tsk HiBy)


I guess. My wireless charger is very finicky anyway. Some buds it charges fine others I think it's charging as the case lights up and find out it is hot and battery never charged. That can't be good for case battery long term.
Figure I have warranty of 1 year plus another on the credit card so if usb port craps out I'm fine as in 2 years there will be while new technology by them for earbuds.


----------



## BooleanBones

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Another setting to keep in mind, if you know you won't listen to anything higher than Redbook (16/44), is to lock in that bit-depth and sample rate in Developer Options (Qudelix 5K owners might recognize this method). For some reason, it helps with throughput and, theoretically, SQ in that use case.
> 
> 
> 
> But keep in mind it won't revert if you try to play something Hi-Res later; made that mistake a couple times :/


Thanks, will dig into those. Totally agree, should be irrelevant on most of that "extra" stuff, but eliminating any unnecessary load on the device will be good. Fortunately I am easily pleased with a good CD quality recording after growing up pushing the play and record buttons to build my playlists


----------



## bladefd

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Depends on who they let tune it, I suppose. Could be very similar to the mu3 in terms of sig, which isn't exactly a bad thing.
> 
> 
> Thanks, friend! I'm a little apprehensive with AKG products since Samsung basically bought the name and outsourced the tuning. The reliable AKG engineers went off to make Austrian Audio, so I don't know how much of the legacy you're going to see in the N400. If they manage to stick to the Harman target and can somehow adjust for loudness properly, I don't see why they wouldn't sound great, though.
> ...


Welcome back buddy! 👍

I see you still got most of the same buds. Try or add anything new to the collection?


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

bladefd said:


> Welcome back buddy! 👍
> 
> I see you still got most of the same buds. Try or add anything new to the collection?


Thanks, man! Nothing new. Fokus is really the only thing grabbing my attention and my money is being better used elsewhere at the moment.

To be honest, I've given away about 1/3 of the TWS that have come in at this point. Few more to go (1 of which does require an "upgrade" of sorts). The ultimate goal is to get it down to a total of 5, then eventually 3. It's gonna hurt doing the same sort of downsizing with the big boys, though.


----------



## Tommy C

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Are you browsing from mobile or your computer? Personally, I prefer Bandcamp. Tends to have a lot more of the unsigned, hidden-gem talent out there.
> 
> 
> Didn't mean to dig at you, but saw a good opportunity to discuss it. That article is really informative, especially when it mentions how dependent signal strength is on bitrate. Figured that's pretty important.
> ...


Mostly mobile but PC here and there. Thanks man! I’ll check out bandcamp. 
I always enjoy hidden gems.


----------



## Tommy C (Dec 3, 2021)

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Thanks, man! Nothing new. Fokus is really the only thing grabbing my attention and my money is being better used elsewhere at the moment.
> 
> To be honest, I've given away about 1/3 of the TWS that have come in at this point. Few more to go (1 of which does require an "upgrade" of sorts). The ultimate goal is to get it down to a total of 5, then eventually 3. It's gonna hurt doing the same sort of downsizing with the big boys, though.


I have settled on 3 TWS as my daily rotation and the Jabra for working out when that becomes a thing for me in the future.
Nothing crazy expensive but with my ideal sound signature so I’m pretty pleased.


----------



## dweaver (Dec 3, 2021)

Tested using the AZ60 on my computer as multi-point and it works awesome. There was a bit of clipping between the 2 ear pieces but very livable and that might be more the Teams session. Will have to see what happens on more calls. The audio sounds very good and the people on the call said I sounded very clean. I was playing music on my phone and when I switched it automatically just stopped playing.


----------



## stormwrx

Anyone with a Shure TW2 get a firmware update to version 1.3.13.0? I can't find a changelog online and am not sure what changed, but my SE846s still sound great paired with the TW2.

Also, if anyone has suggested EQ settings to try for the SE846 on the TW2, I would appreciate it. I'm currently using a modified version of the ShurePlay app's Bass Boost setting, with the gain at 125 Hz set to 4 db.


----------



## erockg

stormwrx said:


> Anyone with a Shure TW2 get a firmware update to version 1.3.13.0? I can't find a changelog online and am not sure what changed, but my SE846s still sound great paired with the TW2.
> 
> Also, if anyone has suggested EQ settings to try for the SE846 on the TW2, I would appreciate it. I'm currently using a modified version of the ShurePlay app's Bass Boost setting, with the gain at 125 Hz set to 4 db.


I posted mine here a few days back.  Check the thread gallery above.


----------



## stormwrx

erockg said:


> I posted mine here a few days back.  Check the thread gallery above.


Thanks. Do you use those settings with the TW2 / SE846, or just the Aonic Free?


----------



## erockg

stormwrx said:


> Thanks. Do you use those settings with the TW2 / SE846, or just the Aonic Free?


Both so far.  I have to say, I seem to be using the Free more than my TW2s lately.  Would love to know what other IEMs work with the TW2s outside of the Shure IEMs.  Know of any others?


----------



## erockg

dweaver said:


> Tested using the AZ60 on my computer as multi-point and it works awesome. There was a bit of clipping between the 2 ear pieces but very livable and that might be more the Teams session. Will have to see what happens on more calls. The audio sounds very good and the people on the call said I sounded very clean. I was playing music on my phone and when I switched it automatically just stopped playing.


Multi-point does for sure work great on them.  One issue I had with my Apple gear... if I had them paired with my Mac and my iPhone at the same time.  When I tapped to play music, my Mac would boot iTunes when I wanted to use my iPhone.  This has happened to me with other mp featured buds too.  Not an isolated incident.  Sigh...


----------



## cresny

erockg said:


> Multi-point does for sure work great on them.  One issue I had with my Apple gear... if I had them paired with my Mac and my iPhone at the same time.  When I tapped to play music, my Mac would boot iTunes when I wanted to use my iPhone.  This has happened to me with other mp featured buds too.  Not an isolated incident.  Sigh...


This is one of the more annoying things on the Mac.  If you find a way to disable iTunes from launching,  please chime in here!


----------



## erockg

cresny said:


> This is one of the more annoying things on the Mac.  If you find a way to disable iTunes from launching,  please chime in here!


I was just using my phone to start playing music, not the buds.  I don't have any pairs right now that offer mp.  Flipped the AZs for other reasons.


----------



## tinyman392

erockg said:


> Multi-point does for sure work great on them.  One issue I had with my Apple gear... if I had them paired with my Mac and my iPhone at the same time.  When I tapped to play music, my Mac would boot iTunes when I wanted to use my iPhone.  This has happened to me with other mp featured buds too.  Not an isolated incident.  Sigh...


In a lot of BT devices dual-multi-point tends to select one device as the music player and one device as the phone.  So it would default the phone duties to the phone and music duties to the music player.  In this case it's set up your phone as the phone and Mac as your music player.  Typically you connect your music player first then your phone, but I could also be wrong (about this or everything).  I rarely use multi-point with BT devices though, they are never standardized and can be finicky sometimes.


----------



## tinyman392

cresny said:


> This is one of the more annoying things on the Mac.  If you find a way to disable iTunes from launching,  please chime in here!


Try this if you haven't already.  There is a way to change your default music player on the Mac.  But I don't know if it'll change the default player for pressing the play button. I can guarantee there is a way around this on the Mac though (since it's not nearly as closed off).


----------



## erockg

tinyman392 said:


> In a lot of BT devices dual-multi-point tends to select one device as the music player and one device as the phone.  So it would default the phone duties to the phone and music duties to the music player.  In this case it's set up your phone as the phone and Mac as your music player.  Typically you connect your music player first then your phone, but I could also be wrong (about this or everything).  I rarely use multi-point with BT devices though, they are never standardized and can be finicky sometimes.


Totally agree.  The multipoint buds I've used tend to drive me a bit nuts with what they want to connect to and when.  Could be user error, but I'm pretty savvy.  Even my AirPods Max have issues some days.  Tried what you said above, but sadly you can't tell it to open "nothing."  No biggie for me as I'm multi-pointless now.  No puns intended.


----------



## erockg

I know I mentioned this before but these AKGs (https://www.harmanaudio.com/black-f...3=false&prefn4=isSupport&prefv4=false&start=1) are really hitting the spot today.  One quirk is that you have to make sure the buds are seated before closing the case otherwise they don't disconnect.  Not at big deal as they were so cheap IMO.  The sub bass and soundstage are just awesome while listening to this album today:


----------



## dweaver

erockg said:


> Multi-point does for sure work great on them.  One issue I had with my Apple gear... if I had them paired with my Mac and my iPhone at the same time.  When I tapped to play music, my Mac would boot iTunes when I wanted to use my iPhone.  This has happened to me with other mp featured buds too.  Not an isolated incident.  Sigh...


In my case being Windows and Android I luckily don't have to deal with this.

Have been enjoying the heck out of the AZ60 again today, so honeymoon still in swing .

One thing I notice is they have a drop off point volume wise where they go from super engaging and dynamic to more main stream in definition. The good news is that point is not to loud at Aro ND 1/3 volume. 

I always forget to mention I am a somewhat low volume listener, rarely going much above 50% volume. Not to interested in testing at higher volumes as I fight to preserve my aging ears. But will try a few engaging rock tracks at higher volume to see if these get shouty and painful.


----------



## dweaver

OK one AC/DC tune "Cold Hearted Man" is enough for me... Volume set around 75% and they sounded good to me. Cymbal crashes were getting close to the edge for me but guitars didn't bother me.

I only listened to part of the song as my ears quickly get used to the higher volume and I don't want to lower it after a while because it becomes "less exciting" but that path will lead to me going deaf... Something my wife already complains about... LOL


----------



## tinyman392

erockg said:


> Totally agree.  The multipoint buds I've used tend to drive me a bit nuts with what they want to connect to and when.  Could be user error, but I'm pretty savvy.  Even my AirPods Max have issues some days.  Tried what you said above, but sadly you can't tell it to open "nothing."  No biggie for me as I'm multi-pointless now.  No puns intended.


Are you having issues with your AirPods specifically, or something else? I thought you were talking about a different headphone. There’s a setting on the Mac for automatic switching if you can get to the AirPods settings. Shut that off on the Mac and it won’t automatically switch to it anymore. 

AirPods are a whole different ball game where they will connect to the device it thinks you’re using/going to use. It’s imperfect, but getting better. It’s driven me nuts sometimes too.


----------



## erockg

tinyman392 said:


> Are you having issues with your AirPods specifically, or something else? I thought you were talking about a different headphone. There’s a setting on the Mac for automatic switching if you can get to the AirPods settings. Shut that off on the Mac and it won’t automatically switch to it anymore.
> 
> AirPods are a whole different ball game where they will connect to the device it thinks you’re using/going to use. It’s imperfect, but getting better. It’s driven me nuts sometimes too.


Sorry, transitioned my thoughts to both Apple and non-Apple, which both have a similar issue when I hit play.  It's annoying.  I've shut the Apple feature off but it's much better on Monterey.  I think part of the Apple issue is that during this whole WFH scenario, I have too many devices here in front of me, so the feature is getting confused.  Nothing like trying to jump on a Zoom and your APM want to connect to your phone.  Good times.  Rarely happens but when it does...  argh.  Not a huge issue.  I just need to get one of those chips implanted in my head and all these problems will just vanish.  Clearly.


----------



## turbobb (Dec 3, 2021)

Question for Galaxy Buds Pro owners - have you experienced channel imbalance specifically with Ambient mode?

My first unit had a problem where the left was much quieter than the right so I sent it in for repairs - they sent a refurb replacement but it had the exact same issue. (I had other people test each unit just to make sure it wasn't my ears but this only happened in ambient mode and not during regular media playback/phone calls.) Another thing is that the first unit would make this low volume digital ticking noise every time I was adjusting the buds - it's as if the touch sensors were acknowledging that multiple fingers were gripping the edges thus it didn't interpret it as a command and reduced false positives. I thought that was pretty neat but wasn't sure if it was a "feature" per se since the replacement unit didn't do that. Both units were on the latest FW as of a few weeks back.

I sent the refurb replacement back and this time they sent a brand new replacement so now I'm deciding whether I should just sell it and get something else - though I do like the GBP overall.


----------



## Ceeluh7

erockg said:


> I know I mentioned this before but these AKGs (https://www.harmanaudio.com/black-f...3=false&prefn4=isSupport&prefv4=false&start=1) are really hitting the spot today.  One quirk is that you have to make sure the buds are seated before closing the case otherwise they don't disconnect.  Not at big deal as they were so cheap IMO.  The sub bass and soundstage are just awesome while listening to this album today:


I don't know if you can answer this but how comparable are these to the Galaxy Buds Pro/Galaxy Plus/Galaxy Buds as far as SQ?


----------



## Ceeluh7

turbobb said:


> Question for Galaxy Buds Pro owners - have you experienced channel imbalance specifically with Ambient mode?
> 
> My first unit had a problem where the left was much quieter than the right so I sent it in for repairs - they sent a refurb replacement but it had the exact same issue. (I had other people test each unit just to make sure it wasn't my ears but this only happened in ambient mode and not during regular media playback/phone calls.) Another thing is that the first unit would make this low volume digital ticking noise every time I was adjusting the buds - it's as if the touch sensors were acknowledging that multiple fingers were gripping the edges thus it didn't interpret it as a command and reduced false positives. I thought that was pretty neat but wasn't sure if it was a "feature" per se since the replacement unit didn't do that. Both units were on the latest FW as of a few weeks back.
> 
> I sent the refurb replacement back and this time they sent a brand new replacement so now I'm deciding whether I should just sell it and get something else - though I do like the GBP overall.


I have owned them for quite some time and I have not had this issue... Sorry man


----------



## erockg (Dec 3, 2021)

Ceeluh7 said:


> I don't know if you can answer this but how comparable are these to the Galaxy Buds Pro/Galaxy Plus/Galaxy Buds as far as SQ?


Definitely like the soundstage and curve better than the GB Plus.  Had them ages ago and wasn't a big fan.  The others, I haven't tried.  I don't think the apps with iPhone.
Oh and because you were considering the B&Os, the E8 Sports are smaller and louder than the EQ.  Been alternating all day.


----------



## Ceeluh7

erockg said:


> Definitely like the soundstage and curve better than the GB Plus.  Had them ages ago and wasn't a big fan.  The others, I haven't tried.  I don't think the apps with iPhone.
> Oh and because you were considering the B&Os, the E8 Sports are smaller and louder than the EQ.  Been alternating all day.


Thank you man, good to know about the e8 sport as well. I think you may be right about the app with iPhone.


----------



## Devodonaldson

dweaver said:


> That night explain things alot. I am only using my own FLAC files, no streaming of any kind.


LDAC vs lower quality codecs is Most noticeable in the upper frequencies, as more information is up there, aka more data being transmitted, therefore more being brought through in a codec that can translate more of that data to your ears. IOS AAC doesn't sound bad, but for a given headphone, you can hear more treble detail in high output LDAC of the same track


----------



## Darkestred

erockg said:


> I know I mentioned this before but these AKGs (https://www.harmanaudio.com/black-f...3=false&prefn4=isSupport&prefv4=false&start=1) are really hitting the spot today.  One quirk is that you have to make sure the buds are seated before closing the case otherwise they don't disconnect.  Not at big deal as they were so cheap IMO.  The sub bass and soundstage are just awesome while listening to this album today:


Just got mine.  Quite nice indeed.  Similar to the JBL Tour but i think their mid is a bit better and open sounding.  Bass seems to extend better.

Charging case is really nii...woops dropped it


----------



## Caipirina

Caipirina said:


> And always on the hunt for something new. Anyone got the Nuarl N10 pro? They are kinda smiling at me for 11798¥ on ‘sale’ …


Guess I should have acted on that. It’s now 21800¥ with a 10% off coupon .. ah well


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

Well folks, not sure what exactly happened, but the OnePlus 8T decided to give up the ghost this afternoon during some car detailing. I'm back on the Pixel 3a as a daily driver. Gives me a chance to spend some time on Android 12, but she's definitely feeling a little long in the tooth.

Nice to have a headphone jack back, though. For the time being, I've just been enjoying the Club Pro+ on them. Maybe it's just me, but I feel they sound a bit fuller on the Pixel than they did on the 8T.

Also really nice to have Roon back, even if I still don't get anything above 48kHz.


----------



## clerkpalmer

Hi all, can anyone recommend a small tws that can be used sleeping that has a solid transparency mode? Thanks.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic (Dec 5, 2021)

clerkpalmer said:


> Hi all, can anyone recommend a small tws that can be used sleeping that has a solid transparency mode? Thanks.


Earfun, easily. The Free Pro 2 might be exactly what you're looking for. Probably still have some good deals on the original Free Pro, but might as well go for the newer version.

Since I don't have to worry about aptX Adaptive on this phone, I decided to set the Falcon Pro up and have been listening to stuff I've downloaded to the phone via PlexAmp (best thing ever for Plex users). Ended up sculpting the EQ to be a little friendlier with some of my Rock music:



8k needed the biggest drop. _Way _too much energy in that band, but a 4-5dB drop really helped with male vocals. From there, I dropped 250Hz a notch to help in separating the bass and mids (really helps with impact from the kicks...it's a crack and "woosh" now instead of a pop or boom). Finally notched 1k down a hair just to help give the snares a little extra snap. The -3dB on the preamp is there to aid with headroom and device volume control.

Should mention this is all with the stock ePro tips on, which are very depth-dependent.


----------



## erockg

clerkpalmer said:


> Hi all, can anyone recommend a small tws that can be used sleeping that has a solid transparency mode? Thanks.


If transparency isn't a dealbreaker, I'm using these most nights.  They are insanely TINY.  Feels like nothing is in your ears.

https://www.amazon.com/1MORE-ComfoB...9Y2xpY2tSZWRpcmVjdCZkb05vdExvZ0NsaWNrPXRydWU=

Here's a pic for size comparison.


----------



## clerkpalmer

erockg said:


> If transparency isn't a dealbreaker, I'm using these most nights.  They are insanely TINY.  Feels like nothing is in your ears.
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/1MORE-ComfoBuds-Comfortable-Bluetooth-Specially/dp/B099RRM6S2/ref=sr_1_1_sspa?crid=WUCA6QU259E&keywords=1more+comfobuds+z&qid=1638725597&sprefix=1more+combo,aps,304&sr=8-1-spons&psc=1&spLa=ZW5jcnlwdGVkUXVhbGlmaWVyPUEyOE04RDJFVFc5UTM2JmVuY3J5cHRlZElkPUEwMzA0NzY1M0pIUlA3Nk9ZOUFBUyZlbmNyeXB0ZWRBZElkPUEwMjIxNTY2MTg2UzZBUFJKTlNPQiZ3aWRnZXROYW1lPXNwX2F0ZiZhY3Rpb249Y2xpY2tSZWRpcmVjdCZkb05vdExvZ0NsaWNrPXRydWU=
> 
> Here's a pic for size comparison.


Thanks. Yeah I need the transparency for ambient sound.


----------



## erockg

clerkpalmer said:


> Thanks. Yeah I need the transparency for ambient sound.


My goal was to NOT hear anyone lol.  They keep me up long enough.  

I used to use the Earin M-2.  Sadly, they’re OOP.


----------



## clerkpalmer

erockg said:


> My goal was to NOT hear anyone lol.  They keep me up long enough.
> 
> I used to use the Earin M-2.  Sadly, they’re OOP.


Yeah I get it. My tinnitus is better but now I have an unbearable popping sound in one ear. So I’m looking for ways to mask it.  Hoping transparency with a fan along with some background sounds will do the job.  I tried the Bose sleepbuds but The occlusion effect makes the pop more evident. I did better with my Gemini on transparency but they are too big.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

clerkpalmer said:


> Yeah I get it. My tinnitus is better but now I have an unbearable popping sound in one ear. So I’m looking for ways to mask it.  Hoping transparency with a fan along with some background sounds will do the job.  I tried the Bose sleepbuds but The occlusion effect makes the pop more evident. I did better with my Gemini on transparency but they are too big.


Yeah, if it weren't for size, the 85t might also have fit the bill, but they're not sleep-able unless you're a steady back sleeper imo.


----------



## clerkpalmer

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Yeah, if it weren't for size, the 85t might also have fit the bill, but they're not sleep-able unless you're a steady back sleeper imo.


Next stop is to just chop my ear off.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

clerkpalmer said:


> Next stop is to just chop my ear off.


That disqualifies you from everything with a fin or ear hook, mind you. Might as well send the i3 this way


----------



## clerkpalmer

miserybeforethemusic said:


> That disqualifies you from everything with a fin or ear hook, mind you. Might as well send the i3 this way


If you can make the popping stop, I will gladly send them your way.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

clerkpalmer said:


> If you can make the popping stop, I will gladly send them your way.


If I knew how to diagnose that, I would certainly give it a shot. Sounds like you're already working with people far more qualified than I, though.

In the world of weird pseudoscience-y stuff, this guy's content has always been interesting. Worth a shot?


----------



## clerkpalmer

miserybeforethemusic said:


> If I knew how to diagnose that, I would certainly give it a shot. Sounds like you're already working with people far more qualified than I, though.
> 
> In the world of weird pseudoscience-y stuff, this guy's content has always been interesting. Worth a shot?



Still popping. Lol.


----------



## dweaver (Dec 5, 2021)

Day 3 with the AZ60 and I am still impressed with them. I actually have turned off the EQ to see if my brain can get used to the signature without tweaking.

Been listening to Kansas albums,  Left Overture and Point of Know Return and really enjoying the music. These albums are tricky, half the headphones I own sound off due to all the old school synthesizers used in the music. But bass adds some fullness to the music while the midrange and treble seem about right.

I have played with the EQ a fair amount and have my own custom settings I like when I want to scale the bass back and get the mids and treble more like the AZ70. It's a lot like the EQ mentioned by @musicphotolife I modeled it from the +treble EQ and just dialed back the bass a bit.


Speaking of the presets, the Dynamic sounds nice as well and I also like the Treble+. So I do think these EQ a lot better than the AZ70 did, probably because bass is easier to remove than add if the driver can't properly produce it.

I do kind of get one reviewer who mentioned his issue is a slight like of percussion ability and this might be what @Ceeluh7 mentioned regarding the bass. Most of the bass I listen to is organ or cello variety versus percussive. The AZ60 does this type of bass extremely well. But I do find percussive bass a bit softer lacking a bit of punch. If I dial the bass back a bit it adds back some of the missing punch at the expense of its fullness. I will continue tweaking the bass setting to see if I can a setting combination that allows for a bit more of both. Maybe this setting combination.

I adjusted 315 to just below zero and that removed some of the softness.


----------



## Ceeluh7

dweaver said:


> Day 3 with the AZ60 and I am still impressed with them. I actually have turned off the EQ to see if my brain can get used to the signature without tweaking.
> 
> Been listening to Kansas albums,  Left Overture and Point of Know Return and really enjoying the music. These albums are tricky, half the headphones I own sound off due to all the old school synthesizers used in the music. But bass adds some fullness to the music while the midrange and treble seem about right.
> 
> ...


75% of my listening with this set was great, really. With some music in my library they sound down right fantastic. They fit nice (for me), are a great looking and premium feeling set as well. The noise canceling is nice and phone calls were great. It wasn't until I did some side-by-sides with a couple sets that I started to realize there was something missing in the bass. Not that it wasn't there but that it was hollow and without weight or correct punch and I did try every eq trick to bring up that area of the mix but it normally came at the detriment of another frequency. Man I really like the AZ60. For my Library, for 240.00 I just had to return but man,...you aren't kidding when you say that these can sound very very nice. I totally understand your ongoing honeymoon. Tws is all about trade-offs until the day comes that we see proper circuitry and internals to fill out the whole spectrum properly. AZ60 is no doubt very close.


----------



## dweaver

Totally understand and 100% agree. That difference in bass for the right tunes is needed and it's all about a trade off. Fortunately my music is more like 85-90% in regards to working. It also helps that I got these for $155us.


----------



## erockg

Ceeluh7 said:


> 75% of my listening with this set was great, really. With some music in my library they sound down right fantastic. They fit nice (for me), are a great looking and premium feeling set as well. The noise canceling is nice and phone calls were great. It wasn't until I did some side-by-sides with a couple sets that I started to realize there was something missing in the bass. Not that it wasn't there but that it was hollow and without weight or correct punch and I did try every eq trick to bring up that area of the mix but it normally came at the detriment of another frequency. Man I really like the AZ60. For my Library, for 240.00 I just had to return but man,...you aren't kidding when you say that these can sound very very nice. I totally understand your ongoing honeymoon. Tws is all about trade-offs until the day comes that we see proper circuitry and internals to fill out the whole spectrum properly. AZ60 is no doubt very close.


I don't disagree here.  For me, it was the inability to EQ out the sibilance in the mids.  Drove me nuts.  Everything else was spot on.  After looking at @dweaver 's EQ setting, we just have different strokes.  I'm more a Harman curve guy with a sub-bass punch.  I actually kept the V-Moda's for just that reason.  They just hit a sweet spot for me.  Flipped my AZ60s.  All this until the next hot buds gets released.  Hey now.


----------



## FYLegend

clerkpalmer said:


> Hi all, can anyone recommend a small tws that can be used sleeping that has a solid transparency mode? Thanks.


If you're willing to look past some shortcomings, Galaxy Buds 2 does have a pretty good transparency mode, AND you can use it with just one individual earbud (Earfun Free Pro 1/2 and Liberty 3 Pro cannot!). It also keeps a constant volume, unlike the Galaxy Buds+ which gradually decreases the total volume to "adjust" to

There's a catch though - once you start tweaking the tone of transparency (clear vs soft) it starts to make this strange hissing sound intermittently when the slider is dragged towards clear.

By shortcomings I mean a) low SBC bitpool so forget about using these if you don't have AAC devices b) scalable codec distorts due to WiFi interference


----------



## DigDub

My current top tws buds (tied) are the Sony wf-1000xm4 (with original Sony hybrid tips) and Samsung buds pro (with grey spinfit cp100 tips). The Sony has a very smooth and organic sound. The Samsung buds pro has a brighter and engaging sound signature without going overboard. Technics AZ60 (with accoustune aet0u tips) comes close but I prefer it to have a little less bass slam.


----------



## erockg

darveniza said:


> Still figuring out the ANC , I think is OK but feel the B&O EQ is better


Hey @darveniza what is your verdict here?  Should I check out the ATH-CKS50TW or do you think they'll disappoint if I have my B&O EQs?  Thanks for any new update!


----------



## dweaver (Dec 6, 2021)

One thing is for sure. LDAP drains the battery on the AZ60! I have been listening to music for a little over 2 hours and the battery is down to 41% on the right ear and 44% on the left and that listening at around 25% volume. Will let it run until one bud dies. Then see what the life is with AAC. This is with ANC enabled BTW.

Edit: right around 5hrs before the batteries died.


----------



## kadinh

Besides the Shure TW2 and FiiO UTWS5, are there any other BT adapters that feature an ambient mode? I'm considering getting one and the FiiO is ahead, mainly bc of the price.


----------



## james444

clerkpalmer said:


> Thanks. Yeah I need the transparency for ambient sound.



How about buds like the Earin A3 that don't isolate?

https://earin.com/product/earin-a-3/


----------



## kadinh

james444 said:


> How about buds like the Earin A3 that don't isolate?
> 
> https://earin.com/product/earin-a-3/


looking to use the IEMs i already have


----------



## erockg

james444 said:


> How about buds like the Earin A3 that don't isolate?
> 
> https://earin.com/product/earin-a-3/


I've had those too. I truly love Earin, but those new A-3s are so hard to keep secure.  It's a shame.  No idea why they went this route and not an M-2 with upgraded specs.


----------



## james444

erockg said:


> I've had those too. I truly love Earin, but those new A-3s are so hard to keep secure.  It's a shame.  No idea why they went this route and not an M-2 with upgraded specs.


They mostly stay put for me when sleeping, but sometimes indeed do fall out. 

Actually, my favorite buds for sleeping are the tiny Anero s15. I wear them stem upward and they stay in even when I sleep on the side.

https://re-how.net/all/1137486/


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

Couldn't help myself. Instead of constantly wondering if the claims of the CX400BT and MTW2 being identical in SQ were founded in anything...


...I got a pair to find out for myself lol. Had a few minutes to get them in the ears for general fit before it needed a FW update (ver 4.13 to 4.14), which took long enough to require a season recap once it was complete. Seriously, guys, there's no reason for a 45-minute update these days. 

But now it's time to give these some serious listening. I have a feeling that having the MTW2's High End Sound Tuning enabled will make them pretty different pairs from the CX400BT. Guess we'll see.


----------



## erockg

james444 said:


> They mostly stay put for me when sleeping, but sometimes indeed do fall out.
> 
> Actually, my favorite buds for sleeping are the tiny Anero s15. I wear them stem upward and they stay in even when I sleep on the side.
> 
> https://re-how.net/all/1137486/


Check out the 1More Comfobuds Z too.  I use them all week at night.  They're like using nothing at all.  No frills though.  They don't even have a mic.


----------



## Spamateur (Dec 6, 2021)

It's been awhile since I've been in this thread, but I recently lost the right bud of my Nuarl N6 Pros on a flight thanks to an errant mask strap. I *really *loved those headphones but I figured I'd use this as an opportunity dip my toes back into the market to see what has improved in the past couple years since I settled on the Nuarls as my only TWS set. So far I have ordered the Technics AZ60, Sony XM4 and Nuarl N6 Pro 2.

The Technics AZ60 just arrived today and so far I'm enjoying them quite a bit, but they're not perfect. They sounded markedly worse over AAC vs LDAC (it's really noticeable) but LDAC definitely hoovers up battery life when you have ANC active. This is out of my Pixel 6 Pro phone. I've been listening for prob 2.5 hours and they're comfortable to fit and isolate decently with ANC.

In terms of sound:

PROS: Really black background to the point where I couldn't detect a noisefloor. Mids and upper bass are rich and smooth with good separation and clarity. Customizable EQ (the app is pretty good!). ANC seems to do good work (although I haven't had too much experience with ANC on TWS). Overall, it's a very pleasing sound that walks the line between detail and richness well, but doesn't grate on poorer recordings.

CONS: Bass isn't the tightest (it's full but slightly bloomy and not as articulate as the best I've heard) and also the treble is uneven. There's a bit of a frequency spike somewhere in the mids that emphasizes sibilance and cymbals can be a bit lacking in harmonic ring and texture, resulting in a papery quality. This contributes to a "clicky" quality to snare drum hits despite my best attempt to dial it out EQ. The EQ is only 5 bands and mostly does an OK job, but it can't make the treble and mid transition more even.

Other notes: Like most earbuds in this space, everything is very "up-front" and intimate in terms of imaging. I wish there was more depth, but the imaging is still decent.


Here's where I ended up on the EQ:


----------



## jant71 (Dec 6, 2021)

james444 said:


> They mostly stay put for me when sleeping, but sometimes indeed do fall out.
> 
> Actually, my favorite buds for sleeping are the tiny Anero s15. I wear them stem upward and they stay in even when I sleep on the side.
> 
> https://re-how.net/all/1137486/





erockg said:


> Check out the 1More Comfobuds Z too.  I use them all week at night.  They're like using nothing at all.  No frills though.  They don't even have a mic.



The Urbanista as well... https://www.hsn.com/products/urbanista-lisbon-true-wireless-earbuds/20341615?sz=6&sf=EC0442&ac=&utm_source=google&utm_medium=shopping engine&utm_term=&utm_campaign=GShopping|M|Generic|Electronics&utm_content=57375634044_pla-1465133749149_20341617&pdp_exp=1&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIh-vGl5bQ9AIVIsmUCR2s0AslEAQYASABEgKmLfD_BwE

Again tuned by Axel Grell, no stems and the fins the Earin doesn't have...


----------



## erockg

jant71 said:


> The Urbanista as well... https://www.hsn.com/products/urbanista-lisbon-true-wireless-earbuds/20341615?sz=6&sf=EC0442&ac=&utm_source=google&utm_medium=shopping engine&utm_term=&utm_campaign=GShopping|M|Generic|Electronics&utm_content=57375634044_pla-1465133749149_20341617&pdp_exp=1&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIh-vGl5bQ9AIVIsmUCR2s0AslEAQYASABEgKmLfD_BwE
> 
> Again tuned by Axel Grell and no stems and the fins the Earin doesn't have...


Do you have the Lisbon?  How do they fit?  Sound?


----------



## jant71 (Dec 6, 2021)

erockg said:


> Do you have the Lisbon?  How do they fit?  Sound?


Thought about it but didn't get them. Early on they only had two colors (pink and black) I didn't want and then forgot about them.


----------



## erockg

jant71 said:


> Thought about it. They only had two colors (pink and black) I didn't want early on and then forgot about them.


I remember reading about them a while back, but they fell off the radar.  I don't have any experience with Urbanista.


----------



## jant71 (Dec 6, 2021)

Still curious with the flat fit for the wind out there this winter and hat and hoodies and such in use. Doesn't stick out nearly at all and no need to activate any ambient or anything. I am mostly a side sleeper as well


----------



## erockg

jant71 said:


> Still curious with the flat fit for the wind out there this winter and hat and hoodies and such in use. Doesn't stick out nearly at all and no need to activate any ambient or anything. I am mostly a side sleeper as well


Same here.  The Comfobuds Z have been a godsend with my loud family.  I may take a shot at the Lisbon for a backup.  40 plus 10% back with Rakuten.


----------



## Tommy C

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Couldn't help myself. Instead of constantly wondering if the claims of the CX400BT and MTW2 being identical in SQ were founded in anything...
> 
> 
> ...I got a pair to find out for myself lol. Had a few minutes to get them in the ears for general fit before it needed a FW update (ver 4.13 to 4.14), which took long enough to require a season recap once it was complete. Seriously, guys, there's no reason for a 45-minute update these days.
> ...



I’m very curious if they are indeed the same. This claim was also made by a local store I go to. On their site they the said they are identical but the MTW2 offer you ANC and Ambient.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

Tommy C said:


> I’m very curious if they are indeed the same. This claim was also made by a local store I go to. On their site they the said they are identical but the MTW2 offer you ANC and Ambient.


My understanding is the driver is shared, but the MTW2's High End Sound Tuning (just going to call it HEST from now on) is supposed to emulate certain tuning features of the IE800, so there's a little extra DSP-ery going on.

What I will say is, in both of the MTW2's sound modes, I think I still prefer the way kicks and short transients are represented on other pairs, even the CX400BT. While there is a lot of bass here, you can tell staging and vocals were the priority choices in tuning. Because of that, I don't think these are a very good pair to only wear with one bud in; they end up sounding bloated, too warm, and fairly detail-less.


----------



## BooleanBones

jant71 said:


> Of course, you might want to try the Denon for the sound but they are not feature rich and the word on them is the ANC is not really very effective. Sounds like the AZ60 is better for sound and ANC. Denon does seem to have a bigger stage but other things are not quite as good.


You are right, should have listened to you  I would say they are a step down from the AirPodsPro (using EPro tips). 
Pros -
They fit nice, touch controls are pretty sensitive, fit in case well. Mics are pretty good compared to some others while on calls. BT connection has been rock solid
Cons-
ANC/Transparency is really cooky sounding for sure. Volume level is below par especially on calls (needed max on calls).

Glad I set my expectations low. They are going back to their birthplace for sure.


----------



## jant71

BooleanBones said:


> You are right, should have listened to you  I would say they are a step down from the AirPodsPro (using EPro tips).
> Pros -
> They fit nice, touch controls are pretty sensitive, fit in case well. Mics are pretty good compared to some others while on calls. BT connection has been rock solid
> Cons-
> ...


Well sometimes you don't know until you try.


----------



## Tommy C

BooleanBones said:


> You are right, should have listened to you  I would say they are a step down from the AirPodsPro (using EPro tips).
> Pros -
> They fit nice, touch controls are pretty sensitive, fit in case well. Mics are pretty good compared to some others while on calls. BT connection has been rock solid
> Cons-
> ...



You took one for the team and it's the effort that counts and we thank you for that


----------



## dweaver

Spamateur said:


> It's been awhile since I've been in this thread, but I recently lost the right bud of my Nuarl N6 Pros on a flight thanks to an errant mask strap. I *really *loved those headphones but I figured I'd use this as an opportunity dip my toes back into the market to see what has improved in the past couple years since I settled on the Nuarls as my only TWS set. So far I have ordered the Technics AZ60, Sony XM4 and Nuarl N6 Pro 2.
> 
> The Technics AZ60 just arrived today and so far I'm enjoying them quite a bit, but they're not perfect. They sounded markedly worse over AAC vs LDAC (it's really noticeable) but LDAC definitely hoovers up battery life when you have ANC active. This is out of my Pixel 6 Pro phone. I've been listening for prob 2.5 hours and they're comfortable to fit and isolate decently with ANC.
> 
> ...


Ya, as the honeymoon wanes I am noticing the bass is just a bit boomy making rhythm a bit off. It works amazingly well for other instruments that fall into the bass range but rhythm definitely suffers. Still enjoying my pair as a lot of my music works extremely well with these.

I do find if I turn down the 315 band a smidge it helps reduce some of the boominess though. I also found it kind of pleasing to up the 100 band just a smidge in regards to oomph. Actually I noticed the treble+ and dynamic EQ's both were the same except in the bass and I modeled the 3 upper bands off of their graph and then just tweaked the bass bands after that. 

I also have continued using them with no EQ when I am not playing around with the EQ to see if I can get used to the signature Technics was driving for.

Just fired these up with AAC and will see how long the battery lasts using that plus ANC. Definite drop in sound quality using AAC, but OK for working as I am not paying attention to the music as much anyway, plus it will allow me to used multi-point which was one of the reasons I bought the AZ60...


----------



## Canabuc (Dec 6, 2021)

erockg said:


> If transparency isn't a dealbreaker, I'm using these most nights.  They are insanely TINY.  Feels like nothing is in your ears.
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/1MORE-ComfoB...9Y2xpY2tSZWRpcmVjdCZkb05vdExvZ0NsaWNrPXRydWU=
> 
> Here's a pic for size comparison.


Got those and they actually sound ok. Still feel them when lying sideways on my pillow though.
Wish battery was better.
Wonder if foam esrtups would be better.


----------



## Canabuc

clerkpalmer said:


> Yeah I get it. My tinnitus is better but now I have an unbearable popping sound in one ear. So I’m looking for ways to mask it.  Hoping transparency with a fan along with some background sounds will do the job.  I tried the Bose sleepbuds but The occlusion effect makes the pop more evident. I did better with my Gemini on transparency but they are too big.


These buds mentioned allow you to have 6 nature sounds on them out of 30 in the app. You can have various forms of wind rain ocean sounds etc so no need for fan noises. Plus the sounds can work on a timer.


----------



## Canabuc

DigDub said:


> My current top tws buds (tied) are the Sony wf-1000xm4 (with original Sony hybrid tips) and Samsung buds pro (with grey spinfit cp100 tips). The Sony has a very smooth and organic sound. The Samsung buds pro has a brighter and engaging sound signature without going overboard. Technics AZ60 (with accoustune aet0u tips) comes close but I prefer it to have a little less bass slam.



How would you compare the Technics to Sony and Samsung? How did the Acoustune tips change sounds from stock?


----------



## Canabuc

dweaver said:


> One thing is for sure. LDAP drains the battery on the AZ60! I have been listening to music for a little over 2 hours and the battery is down to 41% on the right ear and 44% on the left and that listening at around 25% volume. Will let it run until one bud dies. Then see what the life is with AAC. This is with ANC enabled BTW.
> 
> Edit: right around 5hrs before the batteries died.



I had half that drain with note 20 ultra.


----------



## Spamateur

dweaver said:


> I do find if I turn down the 315 band a smidge it helps reduce some of the boominess though. I also found it kind of pleasing to up the 100 band just a smidge in regards to oomph. Actually I noticed the treble+ and dynamic EQ's both were the same except in the bass and I modeled the 3 upper bands off of their graph and then just tweaked the bass bands after that.



That's smart thinking. I'll take a look at both of those. It's really not the bass that bothers me so much as the mids into the treble. There's this emphasis there that really throws off the timbre for me for some reason. Other than that I think these are really nice sounding headphones. I don't want to underemphasize that fact.


----------



## Canabuc

Spamateur said:


> That's smart thinking. I'll take a look at both of those. It's really not the bass that bothers me so much as the mids into the treble. There's this emphasis there that really throws off the timbre for me for some reason. Other than that I think these are really nice sounding headphones. I don't want to underemphasize that fact.


I actually dipped the 2md highest band a bit to soften treble a touch. I also have Dolby Atmos enabled and find bass is very good. It is tight and deep just not as overwhelming the mids as so.e more bass heavy buds.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

dweaver said:


> Ya, as the honeymoon wanes I am noticing the bass is just a bit boomy making rhythm a bit off. It works amazingly well for other instruments that fall into the bass range but rhythm definitely suffers. Still enjoying my pair as a lot of my music works extremely well with these.
> 
> I do find if I turn down the 315 band a smidge it helps reduce some of the boominess though. I also found it kind of pleasing to up the 100 band just a smidge in regards to oomph. Actually I noticed the treble+ and dynamic EQ's both were the same except in the bass and I modeled the 3 upper bands off of their graph and then just tweaked the bass bands after that.
> 
> ...


Any dips between 250-500Hz should help split the bass and lower mids, giving you what you're after.

Really happy to see how happy you are with the AZ60. Enjoy!


----------



## DigDub

Canabuc said:


> How would you compare the Technics to Sony and Samsung? How did the Acoustune tips change sounds from stock?


The Technics sounds more exciting than the Sony and Samsung, more treble and bigger bass, I would say the Technics has a more consumer friendly sound. The Technics also has all controls available on buds. The accoustune tips makes the mids and highs sound drier and faster and cuts the smoothens the bass. The Sony is smoother and more refined and is more suitable for prolonged listening, but can't have all controls. The Samsung is well balanced and the bigger driver produces bass that can be felt.


----------



## Spamateur (Dec 6, 2021)

Earlier today I spent about 3.5 hours with the Technics AZ60 and liked them a lot, but I don't think I like them as much as my old Nuarl N6 Pro.

I also ran to Best Buy tonight and grabbed a set of the Sony XM4 to give a shot and have been listening to them for the past 90 minutes.

Well dang, Sony really brought their A-game when it comes to the DSP. The tuning out of the box is very bass heavy and dark and lush (not objectionably so), but the EQ functionality in the app is really excellent. Major kudos to Sony as they give you a much more usable set of tuning bands as well as a separate bass level slider compared to the Technics app. These headphones respond amazingly to EQ without any distortion or weird changes to tonality. The fundamental driver implementation and tuning seems to be such that it's not much trouble to find a frequency response that works for you AND maintains the smooth and rich quality of the sound without compromising on clarity.

I think the Technics is quite nice, but the Sony sounds a bit more detailed and controlled and has a really impressive ability to be sculpted to the user's tastes. I'd definitely choose the XM4 over the AZ60 from a sound perspective alone.

Incidentally, the ANC of the Sony is a bit better than that of the Technics. I briefly owned the XM3 when it first came out, and I have to say that Sony has come a long way.

My only quibbles thus far:
- I'd love more than 3 sizes of eartips. The L is just a tad too large and the M is just a tad too small. Damn these Goldilocks ears
- Like the Technics (and most other TWS earbuds) the staging is pretty intimate. I'd like some more depth to the soundstage and better layering and separation. From memory, my dearly departed Nuarl N6 Pro had better imaging in that regard.


----------



## BooleanBones

Spamateur said:


> Earlier today I spent about 3.5 hours with the Technics AZ60 and liked them a lot, but I don't think I like them as much as my old Nuarl N6 Pro.
> 
> I also ran to Best Buy tonight and grabbed a set of the Sony XM4 to give a shot and have been listening to them for the past 90 minutes.
> 
> ...


I haven't used their tips since I bought my XM4s. I use Final Type E TWS on mine and they made a world of difference for me.


----------



## Spamateur

BooleanBones said:


> I haven't used their tips since I bought my XM4s. I use Final Type E TWS on mine and they made a world of difference for me.



Did they change the sound at all, or just the fit?


----------



## BooleanBones (Dec 6, 2021)

Spamateur said:


> Did they change the sound at all, or just the fit?


Both. They opened up a lot when I swapped them out. I thought at the time that those hybrid Sony tips kind of muffled them a bit. It's been a bit now, I may throw on the Sony's again and see the differences. I am also not a fan of foam tips, which was another driving reason for swapping them. @erockg is running EPros on his, he might be able to provide some additional insight as those are a bit easier/cheaper to get ahold of over the Finals (Hong Kong)


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

The more I start to use these MTW2, the more I start to like them. Their shells are considerably more comfortable in my ears, getting a seal is nigh effortless, and they have been overall very tonally pleasing.

ANC does feel like an afterthought. Sennheiser seems to rely more on passive isolation. That being said, passive isolation is great for a TWS. A HearThrough I can actually use is a major plus, though.

But it does bum me out that these are terribly bland when used as a mono (single-ear) set for music listening. All the tuning magic relies on a good center image. Get that (which means your tips NEED to seal well) and you're off to the races.

These also seem to be a size M tip for me, even though those initially didn't feel like a winner. I did try to use a L tip in my right ear, which seals...too well, to the point where I get suction on the tip. That'd be great if the bud itself wasn't a hair too shallow in my right ear compared to my left, throwing my CDO (that's OCD in alphabetical order, as it should be) completely haywire. Putting the M back on and understanding now that these like a medium-depth seal have been the winning ticket.

As with all Senns, tuning magic all seems to be in the midrange. They're doing some fancy psychoacoustic trickery to keep vocals as glued to the center stage as these get. Sadly, there's too much midrange and the end result is an overall disconnection with the physicality of things (meaning kicks and quick transients don't sound "real"). It's not quite a wooliness, but it's definitely not a magnifying glass for your tracks.

What I like, though, is I'm effectively hearing more of the technicalities I wanted in the CX400BT running abundantly here. HEST has some part to play in that and some of the magic disappears when I switch HEST off, but it still manages to sound more confident on basslines (from the instrument, not the synth) than most of what I've heard. If you particularly love to listen to bassists in a track or things that lend themselves well to having both a broad sense of space and intimate vocals, the MTW2 are a real treat. That EQ'd NFP is a force to be reckoned with, though, and probably reminds my top contender for best SQ in a TWS, barring the use of adapters.

Here's an example of the type of track I'm suggesting:


----------



## dweaver

Spamateur said:


> Earlier today I spent about 3.5 hours with the Technics AZ60 and liked them a lot, but I don't think I like them as much as my old Nuarl N6 Pro.
> 
> I also ran to Best Buy tonight and grabbed a set of the Sony XM4 to give a shot and have been listening to them for the past 90 minutes.
> 
> ...


Doh! Now you got me interested in the WF-1000XM4 again!!!!

As soon as I can get a pair for $200Cad I will give them a try .  Unfortunately the best deal in Canada has been $350cad. So suspect it will be this time next year before that might happen.


----------



## Tommy C

dweaver said:


> Doh! Now you got me interested in the WF-1000XM4 again!!!!
> 
> As soon as I can get a pair for $200Cad I will give them a try .  Unfortunately the best deal in Canada has been $350cad. So suspect it will be this time next year before that might happen.


I saw the white ones for $320 on Amazon for Black Friday/ Cyber Monday. I was a bit disappointed to read they have narrow sound stage the sort of cramped and in your face but maybe someone can clarify that 😀


----------



## dweaver

I saw those whites too! LOL. I was tempted I won't lie. But that's still $120 more than what I paid for the AZ60. And while the Sony have a few bells that the AZ60 does not have the AZ60 has multi-point which did want and I do like having all the controls built in to them.


----------



## erockg

Canabuc said:


> Got those and they actually sound ok. Still feel them when lying sideways on my pillow though.
> Wish battery was better.
> Wonder if foam esrtups would be better.


I usually set them to 90 mins of rain but they do run out or stop before morning.  I only get annoyed if I wake up in the middle of the night (which happens often lately).  Haven't had any issues with side-sleeping.  They're so small I don't know if they even make tips for them.  Maybe Comply?


----------



## darveniza

erockg said:


> Hey @darveniza what is your verdict here?  Should I check out the ATH-CKS50TW or do you think they'll disappoint if I have my B&O EQs?  Thanks for any new update!


Sorry , work has kept me super busy. ATH is boomy and a bit darker when compared to EQ. Apps are similar. Portability goes to EQ but I think the controls may be easier on ATH


----------



## Canabuc

DigDub said:


> The Technics sounds more exciting than the Sony and Samsung, more treble and bigger bass, I would say the Technics has a more consumer friendly sound. The Technics also has all controls available on buds. The accoustune tips makes the mids and highs sound drier and faster and cuts the smoothens the bass. The Sony is smoother and more refined and is more suitable for prolonged listening, but can't have all controls. The Samsung is well balanced and the bigger driver produces bass that can be felt.



By bigger bass you mean?
My experience with Sony is it is a warmer more midbass sound.
Technics to me seems to have more space and air with tighter but less mid bass bit better sub bass.


----------



## DigDub

Canabuc said:


> By bigger bass you mean?
> My experience with Sony is it is a warmer more midbass sound.
> Technics to me seems to have more space and air with tighter but less mid bass bit better sub bass.


I wanted to say boomy but it's not exactly right since it's not overwhelming such that it covers everything else. Maybe impactful sub bass would be a better term. The Sony has a more mid bass sound, I think it's due its smaller driver as compared to the Technics and Samsung, so the Sony gives an illusion of bass but I don't actually feel it like on the Technics and Samsung. The Technics sound more airy but less "spatial", the sound is mainly concentrated within the head. Sony has the most "spatial" soundstage while the Samsung is somewhere in-between (more left right and less centre back).


----------



## dweaver

When you Samsung are you referring the GBuds Pro? If so I have those and can A/B them and the AZ60.

I quite like the Buds Pro as well. Just wish they had better ANC.


----------



## Canabuc

DigDub said:


> I wanted to say boomy but it's not exactly right since it's not overwhelming such that it covers everything else. Maybe impactful sub bass would be a better term. The Sony has a more mid bass sound, I think it's due its smaller driver as compared to the Technics and Samsung, so the Sony gives an illusion of bass but I don't actually feel it like on the Technics and Samsung. The Technics sound more airy but less "spatial", the sound is mainly concentrated within the head. Sony has the most "spatial" soundstage while the Samsung is somewhere in-between (more left right and less centre back).


Agree Sony lacks sub bass and is heavier in mid bass.
With LDAC found a wide sound stage with the AZ60


----------



## Spamateur

BooleanBones said:


> Both. They opened up a lot when I swapped them out. I thought at the time that those hybrid Sony tips kind of muffled them a bit. It's been a bit now, I may throw on the Sony's again and see the differences. I am also not a fan of foam tips, which was another driving reason for swapping them. @erockg is running EPros on his, he might be able to provide some additional insight as those are a bit easier/cheaper to get ahold of over the Finals (Hong Kong)



Looks like they're on Amazon. Are these the same ones you're referring to?

https://www.amazon.com/Final-Audio-Silicone-Audio-Technica-Campfire/dp/B083KN15MJ?th=1


----------



## Canabuc

Spamateur said:


> Looks like they're on Amazon. Are these the same ones you're referring to?
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/Final-Audio-Silicone-Audio-Technica-Campfire/dp/B083KN15MJ?th=1


Those are not the tws version


----------



## Spamateur

Canabuc said:


> Those are not the tws version



Ah, my mistake. I'll keep looking.


----------



## DigDub

Canabuc said:


> Agree Sony lacks sub bass and is heavier in mid bass.
> With LDAC found a wide sound stage with the AZ60


The Sony mid bass is very well done. I don't usually like earbuds with strong mid bass, but the Sony has has done it in a way which makes it sound natural and without compromising the mids and highs, so vocals come through as extremely natural.

I find LDAC to sound better over AAC for both the Sony and Technics, LDAC gives the top end more air and resolution. I find the Sony in particular to be quite bad at decoding AAC. I was connecting the Sony to a new phone and thought I was listening to a low bitrate file until I remembered to turn on the LDAC option on the phone and everything sounded much better.


----------



## BooleanBones

Spamateur said:


> Ah, my mistake. I'll keep looking.


https://www.mtmtaudio.com/products/...-for-true-wireless-bluetooth-earphone-2-pairs

this is the only place I have seen the TWS version offered and where I got mine. Other folks have ordered from here and they are a legit, but not cheap.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

Hallelujah! After messing around with them a bit more, the AZ70W are back in action. The factory reset process on these is a little weird and the manual doesn't do the best job of trying to explain it, so here's my version:

Remove bud from case, wait for light to turn blue
Hold finger on sensor until lights alternate blue & red (~5 sec)
Release finger, then hold again until only blue light blinks (~10 sec)
When lights turn off, put back in case
You have to do this whole procedure for each side, so keep that in mind. Hopefully it's not something you'll find yourself going frequently, but it's at least possible.

Honestly, I'm just grateful to have them back in the arsenal. They fit a good niche.


----------



## dweaver

will have to remember that if I need to reset my pair!


----------



## erockg

BooleanBones said:


> Both. They opened up a lot when I swapped them out. I thought at the time that those hybrid Sony tips kind of muffled them a bit. It's been a bit now, I may throw on the Sony's again and see the differences. I am also not a fan of foam tips, which was another driving reason for swapping them. @erockg is running EPros on his, he might be able to provide some additional insight as those are a bit easier/cheaper to get ahold of over the Finals (Hong Kong)


I seem to be using those ePros on everything nowadays, even all my B&Os.  Love the fit.  Truly was unhappy with all the stock tips Sony provided with the XM4.  I agree with your tip assessment.  Sonys were very muffled and I couldn't get a secure feel.


----------



## erockg (Dec 7, 2021)

Spamateur said:


> Looks like they're on Amazon. Are these the same ones you're referring to?
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/Final-Audio-Silicone-Audio-Technica-Campfire/dp/B083KN15MJ?th=1


I disagree with what they've told you above.  These are what I purchased and they did in fact fit my XM4s just fine.  Type E is what you want.  They also come with that little red adapter that lets you adapt them for the Shure/Westone buds.  Hmm, maybe I should revisit for that.  Either way, you can just return them if you don't like them.  I did that with my Finals because they're just Sony clones from way back.  I had a few of the Sony tips in my arsenal.


----------



## BooleanBones

erockg said:


> I disagree with what they've told you above.  These are what I purchased and they did in fact fit my XM4s just fine.  Type E is what you want.  They also come with that little red adapter that lets you adapt them for the Shure/Westone buds.  Hmm, maybe I should revisit for that.  Either way, you can just return them if you don't like them.  I did that with my Finals because they're just Sony clones from way back.  I had a few of the Sony tips in my arsenal.


I have both and they do both work, The TWS model are a bit shorter though and let the Sonys sit a bit further in your ear for stability. I can take some pictures in a bit when I get some time.


----------



## erockg

BooleanBones said:


> I have both and they do both work, The TWS model are a bit shorter though and let the Sonys sit a bit further in your ear for stability. I can take some pictures in a bit when I get some time.


I trust your assessment.  Only you, Boo.


----------



## dweaver (Dec 7, 2021)

I am going to give my trusty Sony hybrids a try on the AZ60 today. Will see what that does to the sound. Know they will be more comfy even though I really like the default tips. Those original Sony hybrid tips are simply the best tip ever made for comfort...

Edit: The Sony change the sound quite a bit! Treble has a lot more sizzle, vocals have added sibilance, bass is different... will need to spend more time with different tracks to give a better opinion on the bass.

I have old man ears, so the added treble and midrange is simply more revealing for me, might cross the line for younger more sensitive ears. I have some wider mouth tips that would be more like the default tips minus the foam insert, I will try a pair of those at some point. My suspicion is they may make the AZ60 to sharp for me which will make me glad I have left the default tips alone...


----------



## jant71 (Dec 7, 2021)

https://www-phileweb-com.translate....4.html?_x_tr_sl=ja&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en-US
Looked pretty sweet but then saw just SBC/AAC. $140 should probably have it and 18 hours battery life is also not a reason to shy away from better codecs. Lot of talk about SQ there but you can kinda see they protected the higher model there instead of doing their best. Too bad. Nice shade of red. 



darveniza said:


> Sorry , work has kept me super busy. ATH is boomy and a bit darker when compared to EQ. Apps are similar. Portability goes to EQ but I think the controls may be easier on ATH


Is that with stock tips? Also, thankfully some boom goes away after a while with enough hours. I can even use some EQ presets that add bass even though they are not bass shy. My favorite for bass of all I have heard so far. Have you tried the AT with any 360 spatial audio?

I would expect, given the prices the B&O to be better but seems they are not far apart. EQ a bit better but AT better value perhaps? Not bad as it is a 5 series level. Not bad at all.  Still keeping an eye on that TWX9 FCC filing for the pics and or manual to come out. Curious to see if that is the flagship and how good it looks. All we have is a blurred charge case pic...


----------



## erockg

jant71 said:


> https://www-phileweb-com.translate....4.html?_x_tr_sl=ja&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en-US
> Looked pretty sweet but then saw just SBC/AAC. $140 should probably have it and 18 hours battery life is also not a reason to shy away from better codecs. Lot of talk about SQ there but you can kinda see they protected the higher model there instead of doing their best. Too bad. Nice shade of red.
> 
> 
> ...


You guys just convinced me to pass and stick with my heavenly EQs


----------



## Tommy C

erockg said:


> You guys just convinced me to pass and stick with my heavenly EQs


I'll believe it when I see it... Or should say, don't see it


----------



## jant71 (Dec 7, 2021)

erockg said:


> You guys just convinced me to pass and stick with my heavenly EQs


I am happy with the AT and don't want or need another right now. Do the same and stick with something if it is your favorite. End of 2021 is a good time to enjoy your current favorite and wait for the new crop to be announced at CES cause there will be new features and of course a new BT as LE comes on. Hopefully things like LC3+ and aptX lossless will be a solid jump from the Adaptive and LDAC implementations will have now.


----------



## erockg

Tommy C said:


> I'll believe it when I see it... Or should say, don't see it


See, you know me well!


----------



## dweaver

OK the Sony hybrid switch was short and swift... They affect the signature way to much and not in a good way for me. Cymbals ended up being a lot brighter sounding more tinny, bass became a bit more boomy and one-noted in behavior. It was like they put all the accents in the wrong place.

The original tips have that foam in place for more than catching ear wax I think. Which will mean the AZ60 are not going to be great for anyone who can't find a good fit with the original tips or really like to use specific after market tips. In my case they supplied enough sizes and quality tips that I am satisfied with the default tips so am happy. But these definitely are what I would call a tip dependent TWS.

Will try to AZ70 original tips later but suspect they will not stay on these for very long....


----------



## darveniza

jant71 said:


> https://www-phileweb-com.translate....4.html?_x_tr_sl=ja&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en-US
> Looked pretty sweet but then saw just SBC/AAC. $140 should probably have it and 18 hours battery life is also not a reason to shy away from better codecs. Lot of talk about SQ there but you can kinda see they protected the higher model there instead of doing their best. Too bad. Nice shade of red.
> 
> 
> ...


My comments were based on stock tips, same songs and at 75/100 on volume scale with standard EQ

However we are comparing firm tuning . I used some previous wired ATH earphones and the tuning is similar. So I think a bit of the cmparison I did is a bit unfair as we are looking at two different schools of tuning (Japanese vs Danish) . Rememeber for example that Unique Melody sold 2 MEST MK1 , one for Western markets and one for Japanese markets as the tuning focus, taste,etc are very different. Would think that I would compare ATH with JVC Victor and is much more closer and B&O against Devilate/Senheiser


----------



## dweaver (Dec 7, 2021)

OK, using ACC all day on the AZ60 and it definitely sounds less dynamic and detailed at first. But my brain quickly adjusted and accepted the sound. Was able to participate in several Teams meetings, listens to a couple video on my computer and music from my phone with no issue switching back and forth. Video on PC sounded great, Teams is a clippy and weird between left and right buds, might be worth just using one bud for Teams.

I started at 7:15am or there about and these look like they will die around 2:15PM for a solid 7hrs versus 5hrs with LDAC. So quite a jump in battery life. That coupled with solid multi-point is a good enough reason for me to live with the loss in sound quality during the day. Will likely switch to LDAC at night.

Now my only challenge is using something else while these charge... 

Edit, guess I will have to pull out the AZ70's... OHHHHHH the challenges... LOL

Edit 2, ended up getting just about 7.5hrs out of them before the left bud died...


----------



## bladefd

jant71 said:


> I am happy with the AT and don't want or need another right now. Do the same and stick with something if it is your favorite. *End of 2021 is a good time to enjoy your current favorite and* *wait for the new crop to be announced at CES cause there will be new features and of course a new BT as LE comes on. Hopefully things like LC3+ and aptX lossless will be a solid jump from the Adaptive and LDAC implementations will have now.*


That is why I've been forcing myself to control myself from buying something from the current crop. I'm not a huge fan of the issues with CA MT, but I have found ways to live with it. Bit of trouble and probably too much for those who may not have patience, but hey the sound is amazing. For $150, I have lasted a year and probably have to last few more months for the new buds. This time I am going to spend a bit more - push my budget from $200 to $300. Hopefully, that will give me more choices.

I'm looking forward to better battery life while using LDAC or some other high-quality aptx (like you said aptx lossless). I don't expect some major innovation but I do expect to be able to use high-end codec for a longer time. I don't know if we will see things like LC3 on tws before full-sized wireless headphones, unfortunately. We usually get those things on TWS after it releases on wireless headphones.


----------



## alsorkin

100Pipers said:


> I have had the LP3 since Saturday, first up couldn’t find them in the Android app(Samsung S21 ultra), had to use my iPad to set them up instead.
> They are smaller than the 2s and feel more stable in my small ears.  Sound wise I’d say an extreme focus on the highs with vocals recessed and bass not really showing up to the party. Currently running them with custom eq rather than the Hear-ID eq as the Hear-ID seemed to increase the treble even more, although can’t recall any sibilance. Running the hearid anc seemed to improve the ambient sound feature but didn’t do much for the anc side of this which remains next to non-existent. Had to reset them once after installed LDAC update as right side touch panel stopped responding.
> Really like the control you get in the Soundcore app though. The LP3 seem to take over the volume control of what they are connected to (used hi by r3pro saber, Sony nw55, Samsung s9+ iPad 2020 and Samsung s21 ultra). The LP3s sound reminds me of the P17s (without the P17s bass).
> 
> ...


Regarding the Nuheara iQBuds 2 MAx: I am really pleased with the SQ and blutooth range. My hearing issues as detected by the fine test they incorporate has been compensated for and I find the ambient adjustments to be effective. Also found the noise cancelling was not very impressive. All in all -Definitely a keeper.


----------



## dweaver (Dec 8, 2021)

Well I was surprised yet again with the AZ60, I used the AZ70 tip (at least I think it's from the AZ70), a wide mouth nozzle tip anyway and they actually sound not bad. The treble is definitely elevated but not as tinny sounding as the Sony Hybrid tips and the bass maintained its detail. So more like the original tip but with more energy.

Tried the AZ60 tips on the AZ70 and they definitely did not sound good. so swapped the tips back and enjoyed the AZ70 for a while.

Having a chance to A/B the two pair I have to say AZ70 are the more audiophile of the two models. The bass is just more controlled. Lucky for me, my big old lug holes find the AZ70 just about as comfortable.

So I will end up with GBuds Pro, AZ70, and AZ60 as my primary stable of TWS. Until the next big thing, or the WF-1000XM4 have a good enough sale to make them affordable for me.


----------



## LordToneeus

bladefd said:


> That is why I've been forcing myself to control myself from buying something from the current crop. I'm not a huge fan of the issues with CA MT, but I have found ways to live with it. Bit of trouble and probably too much for those who may not have patience, but hey the sound is amazing. For $150, I have lasted a year and probably have to last few more months for the new buds. This time I am going to spend a bit more - push my budget from $200 to $300. Hopefully, that will give me more choices.
> 
> I'm looking forward to better battery life while using LDAC or some other high-quality aptx (like you said aptx lossless). I don't expect some major innovation but I do expect to be able to use high-end codec for a longer time. I don't know if we will see things like LC3 on tws before full-sized wireless headphones, unfortunately. We usually get those things on TWS after it releases on wireless headphones.


I have purchased (and gotten rid of) the CA MT's four times now, most recently at the $89.95 sale price.  I love the sound, and I love the fit and features.  What I cannot live with is the fact that they will not reliably connect to my phone when I remove them from the case.  In the nine days I had them this last go-round, I had to factory reset them FIVE times.  It is no stretch to say that they would automatically connect to my phone only about half the time.  If I knew there was a fix coming, I'd happily purchase them again.


----------



## Ceeluh7

LordToneeus said:


> I have purchased (and gotten rid of) the CA MT's four times now, most recently at the $89.95 sale price.  I love the sound, and I love the fit and features.  What I cannot live with is the fact that they will not reliably connect to my phone when I remove them from the case.  In the nine days I had them this last go-round, I had to factory reset them FIVE times.  It is no stretch to say that they would automatically connect to my phone only about half the time.  If I knew there was a fix coming, I'd happily purchase them again.


I have heard of so many issues relating to the CA MT's. Thankfully I have not had even one issue and I purchased mine the week they were released. I totally agree with you about the sound and fit of these. Cambridge did a very nice job with the tonality of this set. I like the M1+ just as much. Sorry you've had such an issue with them man


----------



## adnhussn

dweaver said:


> Well I was surprised yet again with the AZ60, I used the AZ70 tip (at least I think it's from the AZ70), a wide mouth nozzle tip anyway and they actually sound not bad. The treble is definitely elevated but not as tinny sounding as the Sony Hybrid tips and the bass maintained its detail. So more like the original tip but with more energy.
> 
> Tried the AZ60 tips on the AZ70 and they definitely did not sound good. so swapped the tips back and enjoyed the AZ70 for a while.
> 
> ...


I'm currently using Spinfit CP360's on the AZ60 and I'm pleasantly surprised by the clarity and tight bass. They don't sit quite as deep in my ears as the stock tips which is actually more comfortable. I still seem to get a great seal with them but haven't thoroughly tested ANC and Ambient Mode yet.


----------



## LordToneeus

Well, I just opened my AKG N400NC a few minutes ago, and, while I am in the wild throes of full-on honeymoon mode at the moment, I am very, very pleased with the everything about these so far.  And for $69.99?? Crazy.  The sound out of the box makes my now-returned Beats Fit Pro sound like complete and utter, lifeless, dogsh*t.  ANC seems fine so far, and there is a noticeable and appreciable difference between the "talk-thru" and ambient modes.  Swipe gestures work easily and reliably, and the case?  Has to be the heaviest, sturdiest little pill bunker for earbuds I've used yet.


----------



## erockg

LordToneeus said:


> Well, I just opened my AKG N400NC a few minutes ago, and, while I am in the wild throes of full-on honeymoon mode at the moment, I am very, very pleased with the everything about these so far.  And for $69.99?? Crazy.  The sound out of the box makes my now-returned Beats Fit Pro sound like complete and utter, lifeless, dogsh*t.  ANC seems fine so far, and there is a noticeable and appreciable difference between the "talk-thru" and ambient modes.  Swipe gestures work easily and reliably, and the case?  Has to be the heaviest, sturdiest little pill bunker for earbuds I've used yet.


Agree with all the above... and they just LOWERED the price to $47.99 ugh.


----------



## scubaphish

erockg said:


> Agree with all the above... and they just LOWERED the price to $47.99 ugh.


Holy moly!  They’re daring me to not buy them


----------



## jant71 (Dec 8, 2021)

erockg said:


> Agree with all the above... and they just LOWERED the price to $47.99 ugh.



Time for a new one and clearing out?? Can't identify based on the FCC filing numbers. Harman does have 2 new JBL TWS about a month ago.  Have to try under Samsung and see. Certainly time for another one.


----------



## BooleanBones

scubaphish said:


> Holy moly!  They’re daring me to not buy them


Do it!


----------



## erockg

scubaphish said:


> Holy moly!  They’re daring me to not buy them


I gave away the pair I just got.  Contemplating getting more for gifts.


----------



## jsmiller58

erockg said:


> Agree with all the above... and they just LOWERED the price to $47.99 ugh.


AAC and SBC only, I keep reminding myself, AAC and SBC only… Temptation is strong with this one…


----------



## scubaphish

BooleanBones said:


> Do it!


When they put it like this 
“4 interest-free payments of $11.99”…I mean come on


----------



## erockg

jsmiller58 said:


> AAC and SBC only, I keep reminding myself, AAC and SBC only… Temptation is strong with this one…


Honestly, I'm an iPhone/Apple guy and I was seriously impressed.  For that price, easy to kick to someone who needs/wants a pair.


----------



## erockg

scubaphish said:


> When they put it like this
> “4 interest-free payments of $11.99”…I mean come on


Did you just finance 100 sets?


----------



## jsmiller58

erockg said:


> Honestly, I'm an iPhone/Apple guy and I was seriously impressed.  For that price, easy to kick to someone who needs/wants a pair.


Yeah, as an Android guy this is tempting, but a pass…

But… maybe a gift for my IOS centric son…


----------



## scubaphish (Dec 8, 2021)

erockg said:


> Did you just finance 100 sets?


Lol…only kept the Gemini of all those I tried. So I have those and APP. These are sooooo tempting as dog walkers if nothing else.

Edit: duh, you probably meant 100 of the AKG.


----------



## tinyman392

jsmiller58 said:


> AAC and SBC only, I keep reminding myself, AAC and SBC only… Temptation is strong with this one…


Was this made before or after Samsung bought Harman?  It would make no sense for them to do something like this after Samsung bought the company as it's kind of like shooting themselves in the foot.


----------



## erockg

scubaphish said:


> Lol…only kept the Gemini of all those I tried. So I have those and APP. These are sooooo tempting as dog walkers if nothing else.


Yeah, I've been cleaning out only to add three more.  Sigh...  Flipped my Gemini.  Got tired of getting only 3 or so hours with them.  They would up sitting a lot so hasta la vista until they either put out that fw update or release and updated version.


----------



## jsmiller58

jsmiller58 said:


> Yeah, as an Android guy this is tempting, but a pass…
> 
> But… maybe a gift for my IOS centric son…


OK, at that price I just bought two - one for my IOS centric son, and one for my Android centric (non-audiophile) son… Christmas stocking stuffers…


----------



## scubaphish

erockg said:


> Yeah, I've been cleaning out only to add three more.  Sigh...  Flipped my Gemini.  Got tired of getting only 3 or so hours with them.  They would up sitting a lot so hasta la vista until they either put out that fw update or release and updated version.


Oh man, you flipped them? Yowza. I’m still loving mine.


----------



## jsmiller58

tinyman392 said:


> Was this made before or after Samsung bought Harman?  It would make no sense for them to do something like this after Samsung bought the company as it's kind of like shooting themselves in the foot.


Great question, but I am not sure about the timing of the company purchase…


----------



## erockg

jsmiller58 said:


> OK, at that price I just bought two - one for my IOS centric son, and one for my Android centric (non-audiophile) son… Christmas stocking stuffers…


Um... you're welcome?  Yep, I'm the devil.


----------



## scubaphish

jsmiller58 said:


> Great question, but I am not sure about the timing of the company purchase…


Had same questions in my head just now. Great question


----------



## jant71

tinyman392 said:


> Was this made before or after Samsung bought Harman?  It would make no sense for them to do something like this after Samsung bought the company as it's kind of like shooting themselves in the foot.


Seems they came out after... https://www.sammobile.com/news/samsung-akg-n400-launched-anc-water-resistance/


----------



## erockg

scubaphish said:


> Had same questions in my head just now. Great question


Pretty sure after.  The AKGs were released but never avail here in the US outside of third parties on Amazon.  Not sure why.  Someone might know...


----------



## erockg

scubaphish said:


> Oh man, you flipped them? Yowza. I’m still loving mine.


Truly loved the sound.  Been using my AirPods Max for work a lot and then the B&O EQ, V-Moda, Shure TW2 w/SE846 and uh today the Jabra Elite Active 7's which seem to be working much better than my experience with the 7 Pros.  Hmm.  Lots to shuffle!


----------



## Tommy C

1MORE ComfoBuds Pro Aurora Blue model with the presets EQ is $68 CAD on Amazon Canada now. No brainer if you can live with the stem design and you like balanced sound with strong mids and nice soundstage and great call quality.


----------



## jant71 (Dec 8, 2021)

erockg said:


> Pretty sure after.  The AKGs were released but never avail here in the US outside of third parties on Amazon.  Not sure why.  Someone might know...


They were but not on the AKG site. Harman, like now, sold them. Harman sell on the site and have no Amazon store.

Maybe some weird Samsung thing where they can talk about their true wireless having sound by AKG but if AKG sound is so good people would go to the AKG site and buy N400's quite a bit. Can't have that lol! So, "no TWS on AKG site!"  They own AKG and can make them their bitch if they want and protect Samsung models at AKG's expense.

Typical big company shenanigans like Beats won't have H1 chip or as good NC or whatever features left out. Usually not a good thing when somebody becomes a sub-brand under a bigger company.

Might be why we have no second model yet and maybe not get one at all.


----------



## erockg

jant71 said:


> They were but not on the AKG site. Harman, like now, sold them. Harman sell on the site and have no Amazon store.
> 
> Maybe some weird Samsung thing where they can talk about their true wireless having sound by AKG but if AKG sound is so good people would go to the AKG site and buy N400's quite a bit. Can't have that lol! So, "no TWS on AKG site!"  They own AKG and can make them their bitch if they want and protect Samsung models at AKG's expense.


Amazing.  Yeah, I do think they sound better than a lot of the Galaxy Buds I've tried.  But I'm a layman compared to most.


----------



## bladefd (Dec 8, 2021)

Self-control, folks, self-control! Don't spend money unless if you seriously plan on using the $48 buds. A lot of people buy stuff they will use a week then never touch it again. Don't be one of those! It's the end of the year blowout sale to clear out their stock, and I wouldn't be surprised if it's a tax write-off as a loss to benefit them on their taxes. I don't know the exact corporate laws behind that, but it would be my guess. They either have something new on the way or killing off their TWS business.


----------



## dweaver

adnhussn said:


> I'm currently using Spinfit CP360's on the AZ60 and I'm pleasantly surprised by the clarity and tight bass. They don't sit quite as deep in my ears as the stock tips which is actually more comfortable. I still seem to get a great seal with them but haven't thoroughly tested ANC and Ambient Mode yet.


Is this the tip you bought?

https://www.amazon.ca/SpinFit-CP360...ocphy=9001327&hvtargid=pla-784919840544&psc=1


----------



## cresny

scubaphish said:


> Lol…only kept the Gemini of all those I tried. So I have those and APP. These are sooooo tempting as dog walkers if nothing else.
> 
> Edit: duh, you probably meant 100 of the AKG.


Couldn't resist, took the bait. I also recently bought -- and like -- a Soundcore Liberty 2 Air Pro refurb for $60 since I needed a better mic for work. I'm also eyeing the Grell.  So my Gemini is going have company.  I thought I was monogamous, don't know what happened to me!


----------



## adnhussn

dweaver said:


> Is this the tip you bought?
> 
> https://www.amazon.ca/SpinFit-CP360...ocphy=9001327&hvtargid=pla-784919840544&psc=1


That’s the one. I’m using the Medium, fits great.


----------



## dweaver

adnhussn said:


> That’s the one. I’m using the Medium, fits great.


Thanks I will grab the medium and large set and give them a whirl.


----------



## Spamateur (Dec 9, 2021)

I have the Technics AZ60, Sony XM4 and now the Nuarl N6 Pro 2 in house today. I've had a fun couple hours listening while swapping between them and playing with their various features.

For this comparison I'm mostly going to focus on the treble because it's the main area where 1 of these 3 models really distinguishes itself. All three of these sound GREAT. They all do really decent bass, with the Nuarl having slightly less but tighter and more articulate bass and the Sony and Technics having similar large levels of bloom and elevated bass out of the box. Similarly, all three do really lovely mids with lots of detail and decent layering and imaging. The Nuarl and Technics are slightly less intimate in focus than the Sony, but all three could do better in soundstage and imaging like most of the offerings in the TW category.

The Technics and Sony both have customizable EQs that I've adjusted as close as possible to my preferred frequency response. The Nuarl only have 2 EQ settings: "Default" and "Flat". Default was brighter and thinner from the mids through the treble, but had better imaging and more accurate tonality than the Flat option, so I left it on Default. The Nuarl was connected to my Pixel 6 Pro via AptX, the other two via LDAC to the same phone.

The Technics and Nuarl are both brighter and drier up top than the Sony, which is sorta tonally dark and lush by default. In terms of EQ the Technics responded well to EQ except for in the mids and treble where there was some sort of spike in the frequency response that made snare drums and cymbal strikes sound "clicky" and plasticky in timbre to me. No matter how hard I tried I couldn't dial it out with the EQ options in the Technics app, so I'm guessing this is maybe driver breakup or some other driver limitation. To be frank: I don't think I would enjoy listening to these without using LDAC because my nitpicks with the treble are exacerbated badly over AAC.

The Nuarl sounds lovely from the bass through the mids and does a really nice job with detail retrieval and recreating a sense of space, but it is bright out of the box and the treble sounds a little dry and papery especially with the silicone tips that are the sole option in the box. There is a ton of detail present in the mids and the bass is remarkably articulate, but it's a shame the top end is lacking in refinement (the first gen N6 Pro was better IMO). I tried Comply tips with the N6 Pro 2 (like I had with its predecessor) but the treble was still just a tad underwhelming considering the strength of the rest of the presentation.

The Sony is dark out of the box and sounds really thick and hefty at first. You don't get a ton of sparkle but you do get some really nice treble detail if you pay attention. Breaking out Sony's EQ function gives you 5 bands plus a "Clear Bass" slider, and the bands are much more usable than the Technics equivalent. I pushed up the treble bands a bit and adjusted the low end to be a bit less bombastic and wow--tons of detail, and natural timbre and textures to instruments and voices. The treble was a real treat: cymbals shimmer in space with natural resonance and overtones, and hi hats sound metallically defined rather than splashy and indistinct. I was just shocked at how well controlled the sound is. I think Sony's basic driver implementation must be really good here as the EQ never felt like it was trying to work around some limitation in the driver.

Incidentally, The Nuarl was the only one of the three where I could hear a very slight noise floor, but it was also the only model without ANC so that probably had something to do with it.

So, the Sony XM4 is staying and the other two are being returned. Considering all the other bonuses (good ANC, fantastic battery life, wireless charging, tiny case) it really feels like Sony has put out a best-in-class product. I'm really impressed both that Sony has released such a compelling piece of kit, but also that there are so many worthy competitors in the space now.


----------



## dj24

erockg said:


> Truly loved the sound.  Been using my AirPods Max for work a lot and then the B&O EQ, V-Moda, Shure TW2 w/SE846 and uh today the Jabra Elite Active 7's which seem to be working much better than my experience with the 7 Pros.  Hmm.  Lots to shuffle!


Multipoint is supposedly coming to the Elite 7 Actives and Pros sometime in January.  I had them off my list as potential upgrade from my Elite Active 75t's because of this missing feature but I'm now considering them again.  I was leaning towards the 7 Pro since it has the same IP57 rating and supposedly has a better mic which is absolutely a necessity for me since I'm on Cisco Jabber calls all day.  Can you expand why you prefer the Elite Active 7 and how it compares to the Active 75t and 7 pro?


----------



## Tommy C

Argh. Just ordered the Shure Aonic 215 TW2 for no good reason other than being heavily discounted on the blue colour. Oh, yeah also my Fiil T1XS out of nowhere started having connectivity hiccups so that is my excuse… don’t judge me 😆


----------



## Ceeluh7

Tommy C said:


> Argh. Just ordered the Shure Aonic 215 TW2 for no good reason other than being heavily discounted on the blue colour. Oh, yeah also my Fiil T1XS out of nowhere started having connectivity hiccups so that is my excuse… don’t judge me 😆


Dude.... Do you see who you are talking to here... You know how many excuses I make to purchase audio gear.... It got silly years ago bro.. Lol. 😅


----------



## Caipirina

Got the Fiil T2 pro the other day and I am very happy with them. Exactly what I wanted: pretty much same phenomenal sound as the T1, much improved ANC. Also nice and compact. Actually took them running today since they fit nicely under a winter hat. The “thud” is not too bad, but wind noise is terrible when hit by wind straight on. But overall it was a great experience. 
Now, maybe there are ANC settings I am not aware about. The English translated fan-version of the app does not support the T2 yet. Have to go look if there’s a new version. 

Other thing: anyone know when the Beats Fit Pro will be released in Japan? Would make a nice xmas present for myself. I see Amazon jp already selling cases. But no listing yet with rls date for the buds …


----------



## Caipirina (Dec 9, 2021)

Caipirina said:


> Got the Fiil T2 pro the other day and I am very happy with them. Exactly what I wanted: pretty much same phenomenal sound as the T1, much improved ANC. Also nice and compact. Actually took them running today since they fit nicely under a winter hat. The “thud” is not too bad, but wind noise is terrible when hit by wind straight on. But overall it was a great experience.
> Now, maybe there are ANC settings I am not aware about. The English translated fan-version of the app does not support the T2 yet. Have to go look if there’s a new version.
> 
> Other thing: anyone know when the Beats Fit Pro will be released in Japan? Would make a nice xmas present for myself. I see Amazon jp already selling cases. But no listing yet with rls date for the buds …


Aaaaaand once again, answering my own questions regarding the T2. There is indeed a new version of the English app, v3.40 a link can be found in the description of a review video on YT. By some Oscar . Took me a while to install, I am hapless in Android.
And indeed, there is a wind mode in ANC (or MAF as they call it), but it is not in the standard button cycle, hence I never got it activated while running.
There’s also EQ with presets. Nice! Really liking those buds now even more. Just hope there comes an iOS app some day.



And as suspected, buttons / presses can be modified as wanted. The advanced mode adds ie volume control (single / triple taps), I keep that off for now as I really enjoyed that slight fit adjustments did not trigger anything  
Other stuff:


----------



## Tommy C

Caipirina said:


> Aaaaaand once again, answering my own questions regarding the T2. There is indeed a new version of the English app, v3.40 a link can be found in the description of a review video on YT. By some Oscar . Took me a while to install, I am hapless in Android.
> And indeed, there is a wind mode in ANC (or MAF as they call it), but it is not in the standard button cycle, hence I never got it activated while running.
> There’s also EQ with presets. Nice! Really liking those buds now even more. Just hope there comes an iOS app some day.
> 
> ...



I’m not sure why Fiil first releasing their new app to android only and then much later to iOS. I have the iOS version for the T1XS and the list of devices doesn’t include some models. Weird marketing choice.


----------



## erockg

dj24 said:


> Multipoint is supposedly coming to the Elite 7 Actives and Pros sometime in January.  I had them off my list as potential upgrade from my Elite Active 75t's because of this missing feature but I'm now considering them again.  I was leaning towards the 7 Pro since it has the same IP57 rating and supposedly has a better mic which is absolutely a necessity for me since I'm on Cisco Jabber calls all day.  Can you expand why you prefer the Elite Active 7 and how it compares to the Active 75t and 7 pro?


I read a review by Jim formerly of, or maybe still of, Jim's Review Room on Instagram where he said the sound was a bit better on the 7 Active.  Could be psychosomatic, but I do feel they sound better.  I also like the silicone grip, which seems to make them fit better in my ears.  I haven't tried the 7 Active on calls yet.  I'll do that today on a bunch of Zoom calls and report back.  I haven't had the 75T for a year or more but I do remember they were slightly bigger (by small bit).  They also just never fit me well and I do very much prefer the size and sound on the 7 series.


----------



## erockg

Tommy C said:


> Argh. Just ordered the Shure Aonic 215 TW2 for no good reason other than being heavily discounted on the blue colour. Oh, yeah also my Fiil T1XS out of nowhere started having connectivity hiccups so that is my excuse… don’t judge me 😆


Oh nice.  I truly love my TW2.  Slap an upgraded Shure IEM on them and you'll be in heaven.  Yesterday, I went down an rabbit hole in search of the new Fostex TM2C and am sitting with my finger on the purchase button.  Anyone know a number of a good therapist?


----------



## Tommy C

erockg said:


> Oh nice.  I truly love my TW2.  Slap an upgraded Shure IEM on them and you'll be in heaven.  Yesterday, I went down an rabbit hole in search of the new Fostex TM2C and am sitting with my finger on the purchase button.  Anyone know a number of a good therapist?



I was looking at the Fostex TM2C a few months ago but voted against it because the app was half-baked and the new app version with the EQ and customize sound ID was never released even though they said they will... I might be missing some details but that was the gist of it.


----------



## Canabuc

erockg said:


> I disagree with what they've told you above.  These are what I purchased and they did in fact fit my XM4s just fine.  Type E is what you want.  They also come with that little red adapter that lets you adapt them for the Shure/Westone buds.  Hmm, maybe I should revisit for that.  Either way, you can just return them if you don't like them.  I did that with my Finals because they're just Sony clones from way back.  I had a few of the Sony tips in my arsenal.


I never said they don't fit. They are just not the tws version. The yes version have shorter stems. Most tws don't insert as deep as a traditional IEM.


----------



## Canabuc

dweaver said:


> I am going to give my trusty Sony hybrids a try on the AZ60 today. Will see what that does to the sound. Know they will be more comfy even though I really like the default tips. Those original Sony hybrid tips are simply the best tip ever made for comfort...
> 
> Edit: The Sony change the sound quite a bit! Treble has a lot more sizzle, vocals have added sibilance, bass is different... will need to spend more time with different tracks to give a better opinion on the bass.
> 
> I have old man ears, so the added treble and midrange is simply more revealing for me, might cross the line for younger more sensitive ears. I have some wider mouth tips that would be more like the default tips minus the foam insert, I will try a pair of those at some point. My suspicion is they may make the AZ60 to sharp for me which will make me glad I have left the default tips alone...



I tried tips from my soundcore liberty 2. Fit is better as not as deep insertion. Like you it opens up mids and treble even more somehow but does take away from the bass.
The Technics tips have a longer more rigid tube which I think is better for bass. Same as my final E tips.


----------



## erockg (Dec 9, 2021)

Tommy C said:


> I was looking at the Fostex TM2C a few months ago but voted against it because the app was half-baked and the new app version with the EQ and customize sound ID was never released even though they said they will... I might be missing some details but that was the gist of it.


The EQ feature is in there.  I had the first gen and was able to EQ them.  The app is definitely generic, but it did work on the last gen fine, at least in my experience.  I liked the modular aspect of them, but thought they were overpriced without a battery case.  What's holding me back is that that case is still HUGE and the buttons are definitely not as nice as the TW2s.

The negative to buying the new Fostex TM2C here in California is that they aren't avail online anywhere and to purchase, I have to pay a Paypal invoice and have a music store in San Diego CA ship them to me.  Blah.


----------



## erockg

Canabuc said:


> I never said they don't fit. They are just not the tws version. The yes version have shorter stems. Most tws don't insert as deep as a traditional IEM.


I stand corrected


----------



## Ceeluh7

erockg said:


> Oh nice.  I truly love my TW2.  Slap an upgraded Shure IEM on them and you'll be in heaven.  Yesterday, I went down an rabbit hole in search of the new Fostex TM2C and am sitting with my finger on the purchase button.  Anyone know a number of a good therapist?


I was checking them out as well. I heard (don't know how true or untrue) that the Fostex don't have alot of output power. Prob good for sensitive iems, which should be just fine for any that I have. The Fiio's have more than enough and are quite a bit less but without the changeable adapters. I was just hashing this out with myself... Lol... Should I just wait for the utws5?


----------



## tinyman392

I saw on AliExpress that TRN has the BT30 out now.  I haven't tried them, but they are still on the cheaper side.  They look to output a lot more power (I think 45mW vs 16mW or something).


----------



## erockg (Dec 9, 2021)

Ceeluh7 said:


> I was checking them out as well. I heard (don't know how true or untrue) that the Fostex don't have alot of output power. Prob good for sensitive iems, which should be just fine for any that I have. The Fiio's have more than enough and are quite a bit less but without the changeable adapters. I was just hashing this out with myself... Lol... Should I just wait for the utws5?


Personally, I'm not even Shure my old ears could tell any difference in sound, output etc.  *rimshot.  I truly like the modular aspect of the Fostex, then I can swap 2 pin and MMCX.  So many great 2 Pin options out there at a fraction of the cost of the Shure SE846 I have.  The TRN BTS20 Pro were modular too.  Less options on them and no app.  I had the first gen of the Fostex and although they worked well for me, the lack of the battery case and the wonky button on the bottom pushed me to the Shure TW2s.  That said, my wild hair is growing and now that there's a place who can sell them to me, I may just take the plunge.  Should you wait?  I guess if you don't care about a modular aspect and you love Fiio, sure, wait it out.  OR, try them all from a place with a great return policy 

EDIT:  After looking at the case, I remember now.  Some IEM, such as the Moondrop Blessing 2s barely fit in the case.  Also, the USB-C input connector was recessed deeper than normal.  Only the USB-C cable that came with the TRNs worked properly.  Maybe they fixed this on those new BT30s @tinyman392 mentions above.


----------



## jant71

tinyman392 said:


> I saw on AliExpress that TRN has the BT30 out now.  I haven't tried them, but they are still on the cheaper side.  They look to output a lot more power (I think 45mW vs 16mW or something).


42mw@16ohm. The FiiO has 54mw@16ohm. Though the FiiO though is not on the cheaper side being $50 more. 

TRN still kept that silly zip case though. TWS with a zip case really!  

KZ AZ09 Pro is the best design and the cheapest but doesn't do MMCX. Best arm for fit and comfort and the smallest modules and 4.5 grams weight. 

FiiO @ $130 with no ear phones and no features. At least the TRN can change connectors.

We really need more models since that competition is what will drive them to give us more of the features we want at a fair price.


----------



## d3myz

Caipirina said:


> Aaaaaand once again, answering my own questions regarding the T2. There is indeed a new version of the English app, v3.40 a link can be found in the description of a review video on YT. By some Oscar . Took me a while to install, I am hapless in Android.
> And indeed, there is a wind mode in ANC (or MAF as they call it), but it is not in the standard button cycle, hence I never got it activated while running.
> There’s also EQ with presets. Nice! Really liking those buds now even more. Just hope there comes an iOS app some day.
> 
> ...


Thanks for this review, Ever since I got the Ear Fun Free Pro 2 buds, i've been wanting to get my hands on theses.


----------



## bladefd

erockg said:


> Oh nice.  I truly love my TW2.  Slap an upgraded Shure IEM on them and you'll be in heaven.  Yesterday, I went down an rabbit hole in search of the new Fostex TM2C and am sitting with my finger on the purchase button.  Anyone know a number of a good therapist?


You are the best therapist for yourself! When you feel the urge to purchase, it's all about taking a few deep breaths, relaxing and controlling yourself!


----------



## Canabuc

New update for the Technics.
Ambient sounds better. Will test audio now


----------



## erockg

bladefd said:


> You are the best therapist for yourself! When you feel the urge to purchase, it's all about taking a few deep breaths, relaxing and controlling yourself!


Is this my wife?  Great, she's hacked the system Guys!  Abort!  Abort!


----------



## BooleanBones

erockg said:


> Is this my wife?  Great, she's hacked the system Guys!  Abort!  Abort!


Welcome to the board Mrs @erockg


----------



## Canabuc

Okay so far liking the firmware on the AZ60.
It seems to have changed the sound a bit. My ears hear a little less treble sharpness and a little more fullness in the upper midbass where there felt a bit of a hole before.


----------



## Tommy C

erockg said:


> Oh nice.  I truly love my TW2.  Slap an upgraded Shure IEM on them and you'll be in heaven.  Yesterday, I went down an rabbit hole in search of the new Fostex TM2C and am sitting with my finger on the purchase button.  Anyone know a number of a good therapist?


I’m probably gonna take the 215 for a spin and see if I like them enough when out and about but hoping I can use the connector with the UE900 assuming they fit. I’m not ready to cough up the money for the SE846 just yet, but if that day comes I think it will be the end game for my TWS journey as life situation and an upcoming move won’t allow me to play that game no more lol


----------



## Ceeluh7

jant71 said:


> 42mw@16ohm. The FiiO has 54mw@16ohm. Though the FiiO though is not on the cheaper side being $50 more.
> 
> TRN still kept that silly zip case though. TWS with a zip case really!
> 
> ...


The utws5 will be 130.00? I did not see that. Thanks man. I bought both versions of the Utws3 so I could use both mmcx and 2 pin connectors with it. I did buy these very small adapters to connect on the mmcx version but found that not many iems could fit in the case that way... So... Naturally I'll buy both... Good Lord. Anyways, there is a segment of Audio crazy people like us that would welcome more options out there. I like the Fiio's for the tonality, driving power, case and app but anymore these other brands are catching up. I tried the ibasso cf01 as well and they didn't do it for me. Still have yet to try the Fostex as well as the Shure units.


----------



## erockg

Tommy C said:


> I’m probably gonna take the 215 for a spin and see if I like them enough when out and about but hoping I can use the connector with the UE900 assuming they fit. I’m not ready to cough up the money for the SE846 just yet, but if that day comes I think it will be the end game for my TWS journey as life situation and an upcoming move won’t allow me to play that game no more lol


Oh that's right, you have those UE.  Very cool.


----------



## adnhussn

Canabuc said:


> Okay so far liking the firmware on the AZ60.
> It seems to have changed the sound a bit. My ears hear a little less treble sharpness and a little more fullness in the upper midbass where there felt a bit of a hole before.


Are you using stock tips and EQ on or off?


----------



## erockg

Drop has the new Grell buds available now:  https://drop.com/buy/drop-grell-tws...CampaignId=3349981&iterableTemplateId=4578383


----------



## scubaphish (Dec 9, 2021)

erockg said:


> Drop has the new Grell buds available now:  https://drop.com/buy/drop-grell-tws...CampaignId=3349981&iterableTemplateId=4578383


Might be stating the obvious, but on grellaudio website too.
https://grellaudio.com/en/product/1/in-ear-headphones-tws-1-space-grey


----------



## erockg

scubaphish said:


> Might be stating the obvious, but on grellaudio website too.
> https://grellaudio.com/en/product/1/in-ear-headphones-tws-1-space-grey


Yeah, but oddly the Grell website says ships in two weeks.  Drop says ready to ship.  Weird.  

Interesting, they use SoundID to EQ for their app.  Not something proprietary.  Also, looks like the Drop version has wingtips.  I kinda like the Grell only version better without the extra branding.


----------



## xSDMx

Hmm. I wonder how easily they pair across multiple devices. Does anyone have any experience with Drop's return policy?


----------



## erockg

xSDMx said:


> Hmm. I wonder how easily they pair across multiple devices. Does anyone have any experience with Drop's return policy?


I did have any issues with one item bought about a year ago.


----------



## Tommy C

xSDMx said:


> Hmm. I wonder how easily they pair across multiple devices. Does anyone have any experience with Drop's return policy?





erockg said:


> I did have any issues with one item bought about a year ago.


Drop return policy isn’t good unfortunately. I will hold judgment but ordering from outside of the U.S it might be a pain in the neck to deal with if something should happen and you need to RMA.


----------



## Tommy C

erockg said:


> Yeah, but oddly the Grell website says ships in two weeks.  Drop says ready to ship.  Weird.
> 
> Interesting, they use SoundID to EQ for their app.  Not something proprietary.  Also, looks like the Drop version has wingtips.  I kinda like the Grell only version better without the extra branding.



SoundID is cool but I think I prefer a proprietary app as I don’t really know how they are going to incorporate the features with the SoundID and if they are going to give access to full EQ or just this thing based on the hearing test.


----------



## erockg

Tommy C said:


> Drop return policy isn’t good unfortunately. I will hold judgment but ordering from outside of the U.S it might be a pain in the neck to deal if something should happen and you need to RMA.


I'm here in the US.  Returned the item and 7 days later (after the date I dropped them at UPS) they issued a refund.  I agree, could be a pain if outside USA.  I had horrible issues with Earin in Sweden for a warranty replacement.  Took over month.  Not cool.


----------



## avgonzalez77

There is an Australian company who recently put out a  pair of overhead headphones that had an in ear component - anyone remember the brand?


----------



## erockg

Tommy C said:


> SoundID is cool but I think I prefer a proprietary app as I don’t really know how they are going to incorporate the features with the SoundID and if they are going to give access to full EQ or just this thing based on the hearing test.


I don't know much about SoundID since it was first released.  I remember it was cool then, but remember trying it much later and they changed it.  

For what it's worth to anyone, there's this:


----------



## erockg

avgonzalez77 said:


> There is an Australian company who recently put out a  pair of overhead headphones that had an in ear component - anyone remember the brand?


You're prob talking about Nura.  Like little wieners in your ears.  I couldn't deal


----------



## clerkpalmer

Tinnitus is improved.  Clicking has resolved.  Me want new Grells .... dare I take the risk????


----------



## Tommy C

erockg said:


> I'm here in the US.  Returned the item and 7 days later (after the date I dropped them at UPS) they issued a refund.  I agree, could be a pain if outside USA.  I had horrible issues with Earin in Sweden for a warranty replacement.  Took over month.  Not cool.



I just looked at the Drop website and it looks like their updated return policy is more generous than I recalled.


----------



## clerkpalmer

Tommy C said:


> I just looked at the Drop website and it looks like their updated return policy is more generous than I recalled.


Beware it says "new and unused" condition.  This isn't amazon.


----------



## dasadab

avgonzalez77 said:


> There is an Australian company who recently put out a  pair of overhead headphones that had an in ear component - anyone remember the brand?


Nuraphone.   I like mine.


----------



## xSDMx

"New and unused condition"


----------



## Tommy C

clerkpalmer said:


> Beware it says "new and unused" condition.  This isn't amazon.


Very true. Normally I try not to return stuff but in the TWS game it can be such a hit and miss and not just about sound quality but connectivity, charging case, app etc... 
I would definitely stick to Amazon especially since this is a brand new company with no track record.


----------



## dweaver

Canabuc said:


> New update for the Technics.
> Ambient sounds better. Will test audio now





Canabuc said:


> Okay so far liking the firmware on the AZ60.
> It seems to have changed the sound a bit. My ears hear a little less treble sharpness and a little more fullness in the upper midbass where there felt a bit of a hole before.


Also saw the firmware this morning. I haven't used the ambient mode enough today to know if it's changed much. Will take a few tracks I used for testing the past few days and see if I can hear any differences.


----------



## dweaver (Dec 9, 2021)

New update for the AZ70 too!! Will see what is does shortly...

Edit: apparently came out back in June and the app just wasn't telling me about it.

Anyone remember what they noticed if anything from the last AZ70 firmware update in regards to sound?

It seems a bit warmer sounding after the update.


----------



## cresny

erockg said:


> I don't know much about SoundID since it was first released.  I remember it was cool then, but remember trying it much later and they changed it.
> 
> For what it's worth to anyone, there's this:


One benefit with the Grell is that it stores the profile on the earphones themselves,  so the profile is used with all devices.  
About that video, there was some mention in the dedicated thread how this guy is biased to the custom tunings he does on the Earfun for his Patreon subscribers. Not that  it disqualifies his opinion, but it should perhaps be taken with a grain of salt.


----------



## Spamateur

Tommy C said:


> Very true. Normally I try not to return stuff but in the TWS game it can be such a hit and miss and not just about sound quality but connectivity, charging case, app etc...
> I would definitely stick to Amazon especially since this is a brand new company with no track record.



I'm seeing the below on this page: https://helpdesk.drop.com/hc/en-us/articles/360019107874-Drop-s-return-replacement-policy

Drop Studio items are considered eligible for return if they:

Are marked on the product page via a note stating "RETURNS & EXCHANGES—NO QUESTIONS ASKED"
Are in "like new" condition as described below:
Items will be free of cosmetic defects and in perfect working condition
All original components intact: Inclusive of any included inserts or additional materials.
Be in original packaging and with have minimal damage


That's a direct copypasta (including the typo) so it looks like they're fine accepting a return of an opened product.


----------



## erockg

cresny said:


> One benefit with the Grell is that it stores the profile on the earphones themselves,  so the profile is used with all devices.
> About that video, there was some mention in the dedicated thread how this guy is biased to the custom tunings he does on the Earfun for his Patreon subscribers. Not that  it disqualifies his opinion, but it should perhaps be taken with a grain of salt.


Oh I totally felt the same.  He kept referring to his Earfun buds.  Also, if you look at his channel, he refers to them quite often.


----------



## xSDMx

I'm jumping in and buying the Grells! 

No, multi-point, BUT it looks like they have my favorite feature from the Soundpeats H1 which is the ability to manually force pairing mode via the earbuds themselves!

From their FAQ:


> You can also manually start the pairing on the earbuds if you tap and hold the touch field on each earbud simultaneously for 3 seconds.



Happy they implemented this. I wish all TWS IEMs had it. Such an easy quality of life feature that mitigates the pain of no fast/quick pairing or multi-point. IIRC it's actually part of the QCC3040 and 5141 reference implementation, so it seems like companies are almost going out of their way to disable it.


----------



## Tommy C

xSDMx said:


> I'm jumping in and buying the Grells!
> 
> No, multi-point, BUT it looks like they have my favorite feature from the Soundpeats H1 which is the ability to manually force pairing mode via the earbuds themselves!
> 
> ...



It’s the same method with the sennheiser CX 400BT but those have the Connections feature in the app which makes it super easy to toggle between devices and while not true multipoint it still a great feature which works flawlessly for me.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

dweaver said:


> New update for the AZ70 too!! Will see what is does shortly...
> 
> Edit: apparently came out back in June and the app just wasn't telling me about it.
> 
> ...


Checked my set and it seems they were already on it. Current version for me is JNK1ZD 02.60.

Can't say I heard a difference, but they sounded fantastic with this album tonight:


----------



## Canabuc

adnhussn said:


> Are you using stock tips and EQ on or off?


Stock tips. EQ on but at same settings there is a slight difference. Sounds a bit less thin at top end a bit more full out warmer at low end compared to before. Still has great treble detail.
Seems to me the sound is a bit warmer


----------



## Canabuc

Ambient using the attention mode. Sound more natural than before.


----------



## adnhussn

Canabuc said:


> Stock tips. EQ on but at same settings there is a slight difference. Sounds a bit less thin at top end a bit more full out warmer at low end compared to before. Still has great treble detail.
> Seems to me the sound is a bit warmer


I’m noticing the same. Digging it so far though I didn’t really have any issue with the sound before. Still haven’t tested the changes to ambient mode.


----------



## scubaphish (Dec 10, 2021)

xSDMx said:


> I'm jumping in and buying the Grells!
> 
> No, multi-point, BUT it looks like they have my favorite feature from the Soundpeats H1 which is the ability to manually force pairing mode via the earbuds themselves!
> 
> ...


WRT multipoint, this is from the discussion section of the Drop page.

“New community manager for grell audio here! Good question. The TWS/1 supports Bluetooth 5.2 with the Qualcomm 5141 chipset; Qualcomm has announced Multipoint connectivity for this chipset, but qualcomm has not implemented it (yet?).”

So maybe it come with a (near) future firmware update

Also, review on head fi:

https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/grell-audio-tws-1.25593/reviews#review-27464


----------



## dweaver

That is an awesome album @miserybeforethemusic  really enjoyed it with the AZ60 last night, will give it a whirl with the AZ70 today.

So far the  new AZ60 firmware seems to have tightened the bass a bit, to me it's not quite as loose sounding and they do seem possibly a bit warmer sounding as well. The treble seems the same which is good.


----------



## DigDub

Fiil T2 pro. Seems to have retained the t1 pro sound. ANC is more effective.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

dweaver said:


> That is an awesome album @miserybeforethemusic  really enjoyed it with the AZ60 last night, will give it a whirl with the AZ70 today.
> 
> So far the  new AZ60 firmware seems to have tightened the bass a bit, to me it's not quite as loose sounding and they do seem possibly a bit warmer sounding as well. The treble seems the same which is good.


Thanks! Sounds like Thomas will be doing a 7-"chapter" version of this Humanity series and we're currently up to Chapter 4. Can't wait to see what else is in store. Figured the cinematic/modern classical feel of that album played to all of the Technics' strengths.


----------



## dweaver

It sure does, both AZ70 and AZ60 sound wonderful with that album. Might have to buy that album. Found new music!! Thats even better than a new headphone...


----------



## erockg

scubaphish said:


> WRT multipoint, this is from the discussion section of the Drop page.
> 
> “New community manager for grell audio here! Good question. The TWS/1 supports Bluetooth 5.2 with the Qualcomm 5141 chipset; Qualcomm has announced Multipoint connectivity for this chipset, but qualcomm has not implemented it (yet?).”
> 
> ...


One thing I can’t find out is how do you do firmware updates on them? I’m not well-versed in the SoundID app so I don’t know if you can implement firmware updates on earbuds with it?


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

erockg said:


> One thing I can’t find out is how do you do firmware updates on them? I’m not well-versed in the SoundID app so I don’t know if you can implement firmware updates on earbuds with it?


Not too sure. Thread is over here if you want to ask. Might get an answer from Axel himself:

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/for...f-anc-true-wireless-earbuds-the-tws-1.960026/


----------



## erockg

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Not too sure. Thread is over here if you want to ask. Might get an answer from Axel himself:
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/for...f-anc-true-wireless-earbuds-the-tws-1.960026/


Nice, thanks!  Just left the question.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

erockg said:


> Nice, thanks!  Just left the question.


Good on ya. I'm mildly curious about them, but willing to wait for more folks to adopt them and get the wrinkles ironed out before I purchase. Looks like a pretty solid pair from what I can see, but imagine a lot of people are going to have a problem with how large they feel in the ear. Insertion depth and technique is going to be everything with that pair.

Ironically, with the MTW2, that's pretty effortless. Wonder how Grell handled it here.


----------



## erockg

Same here.  I need to see how the masses feel.  They look huge, but I'm curious too.  I'll resist the urge for a bit.  Plus, I have the Fokus out for delivery right now


----------



## Tommy C

erockg said:


> One thing I can’t find out is how do you do firmware updates on them? I’m not well-versed in the SoundID app so I don’t know if you can implement firmware updates on earbuds with it?



My guess is that since SoundID is a 3rd party app firmware updates won't be available through the app.


----------



## fursan7

DigDub said:


> Fiil T2 pro. Seems to have retained the t1 pro sound. ANC is more effective.


So no differences in sound at all? Do these have in ear detection?


----------



## dweaver

Well I can't say if its the firmware update or just my brain getting burned in. But I am preferring the AZ60 over the AZ70. they both have their strengths and weaknesses and work better for certain music, but for overall general use the AZ60 sounds better with more genres. It just has a fuller sound. I have also basically stopped EQing them for the most part and just use their default signature.

Once you step away from the sound signature then the AZ60 just wins. They are smaller, more comfortable, have a better fit kit, offer LDAC, have multi-point, similar battery life, smaller case. 

I love being able to use these simultaneously between my phone and computer. It has some small hiccups but more or less just works and works well. I will be working in an open space office occasionally and these will allow me to have meetings with minimal disruption to me and the people working around me.

Then when I don't need to connect to my computer I can switch to LDAC and get the best possible sound out of them and to me, while not quite to the level of a wired product they are narrowing that gap.

Out of curiosity what % are others setting the ANC to? I have mine set at 75% which works well in almost all environments including walking around outside. Still get a bit of wind but very minor and livable at that percentage.

for ambient mode I tweak more often as sometime I need the added clarity versus sound quality. BUt generally speaking 75% works best there as well as it reduces the hiss while still allowing me to be more aware of surroundings.

One thing I missed was the ability to toggle between ANC, ambient, and OFF from the IEM. So just looked in the settings and i just needed to enable the ability for off. So now these have the same settings as the AZ70 so  can turn off ANC and Ambient for especially windy days when outside.


----------



## tinyman392

Tommy C said:


> My guess is that since SoundID is a 3rd party app firmware updates won't be available through the app.


If I’m not mistaken, the Drop Panda will be doing firmware updates through SoundID.  Or at least that’s what Drop said (an initial firmware update through the PC, then the rest over air using SoundID).


----------



## bladefd (Dec 10, 2021)

erockg said:


> Same here.  I need to see how the masses feel.  They look huge, but I'm curious too.  I'll resist the urge for a bit.  Plus, I have the Fokus out for delivery right now


I will never understand the point of having the stem tbh. It's just not necessary! Makes it bigger and stand out. Not fun to use while lying down. It looks bit ugly too but that's besides the point.


----------



## xSDMx

bladefd said:


> I will never understand the point of having the stem tbh. It's just not necessary! Makes it bigger and stand out. Not fun to use while lying down. It looks bit ugly too but that's besides the point.


Mic/call quality. Stem microphones like the APPs tend to perform better.


----------



## dweaver

Working away listening to tunes on my phone, someone starts to call me from teams on my PC, music stops, I answer the phone (have to try using the answer function on the TWS next time). Once the team's call is over I hang up and my music immediately starts playing from my phone...

How can it get any better than that!

😎


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

bladefd said:


> I will never understand the point of having the stem tbh. It's just not necessary! Makes it bigger and stand out. Not fun to use while lying down. It looks bit ugly too but that's besides the point.


It's a microphone quality thing. One of the reasons the WH3 perform as well as they do on calls imo


----------



## xSDMx

dweaver said:


> Working away listening to tunes on my phone, someone starts to call me from teams on my PC, music stops, I answer the phone (have to try using the answer function on the TWS next time). Once the team's call is over I hang up and my music immediately starts playing from my phone...
> 
> How can it get any better than that!
> 
> 😎



Multi-point, when implemented well, is absolutely amazing. I know I'm a broken record on this topic, but fast/quick pairing, multi-point, etc. are all such massive QoL improvements for anyone with more than one device (which is probably most people).


----------



## jant71 (Dec 10, 2021)

Damn. Say I'm good with waiting and the AT is my favorite so far but there is always some kryptonite that you might not be able to resist and this pops up in about a week...
https://www-phileweb-com.translate....3.html?_x_tr_sl=ja&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en-US

Of course has a version of the new A series...






And the Victor and AT have been two of the best sound so far. CKS50TW first, N6 Pro 2 second and Victor third. The two share the extra chambers and trying to more air and control pressure as in a normal earphone and that has paid off. Here they are trying to do the same and be more like like the wired earphones.





One I put some stock in to be among the best sounding and well tuned so quite tempting.


----------



## erockg

bladefd said:


> I will never understand the point of having the stem tbh. It's just not necessary! Makes it bigger and stand out. Not fun to use while lying down. It looks bit ugly too but that's besides the point.


1000% agree.  They better be special if that stem is there.


----------



## erockg

xSDMx said:


> Mic/call quality. Stem microphones like the APPs tend to perform better.


That said, I just used my Jabra Elite Active 7s on a two hour phone call (lucky me) and every said I sounded flawless.  No stem.  But it was indoors.


----------



## erockg

Sitting here judging these new Noble Fokus Pro.  First impressions.  WOW.  I mean, these things fit _perfect_, like molded IEMs in my ears.  SOOOO much better than the Falcon Pro.  Case is made of metal and plastic.  Sound... yeah, exactly what I expected.  Soundstage is wide, full.  Instrument separation is there.  Out of the box they sound great, but I do love to slap on a little EQ.  Bring up the low end a bit so my head can rattle.  I'm a Harman curve guy.  Still messing around.  Touch panels work great.  No honeymoon yet, just a lot of thinking and analyzing.  These buds have no frills.  Just play, pause, skip and vol control.  No wireless charging, no auto pause.  You're paying for the tri-drivers et al.  Not really sure what else to comment about yet until I keep playing.  

The Wizards magic is blowing my mind, hypnotized for the moment listening to this:  




I hope his magic doesn't wear off.


----------



## Canabuc

So interesting experiment today with my AZ60.
LDAC is a temperamental thing and to rely get the best implementation of it is tricky.
Test song:

https://music.amazon.ca/albums/B09KK3LGKB?trackAsin=B09KK64XTV&ref=dm_sh_534LTuT3vblcmcQGekHEZS8Er
So LDAC at 990kbs you hear a power in her voice in the treble region that is incredible. At same time you hear the gentle cymbals.
At 660kbs our sounds very good but a bit of that top end is just enough less to notice a difference when doing an A/B though most would be very satisfied with either.
In AAC, still sound very nice but you feel that the high end extension isn't there as it a layer of height to the song is not there.

Now granted this is with ultra HD source on Amazon.

The tricky part with LDAC at least in my Shaun phone is that you need developer seeing enabled.
It defaults to best effort. This usually is in the 400s range from what I've read.
You can manually select a higher audio quality setting but it doesn't actually change it. You also have to toggle something else such as the bit rate or change away from LDAC and back for the phone to actually now stream at the higher setting.

Then you can hear the difference. Unfortunately if I choose 990, I need to have my phone screen off. If not it is a stuttering mess. At 660 I can use my phone and generally fine.

Bad news none of these settings in developer settings stick after a reboot or next connection with the buds.

If anyone knows of an easier way it work adding please let me know.


----------



## dweaver

hmmmm I did not know I needed to change another setting to get the highest setting to actually work with LDAC. Let me do some playing...


----------



## Canabuc (Dec 10, 2021)

dweaver said:


> hmmmm I did not know I needed to change another setting to get the highest setting to actually work with LDAC. Let me do some playing...


What phone to you have? Do you have developer mode enabled in settings?


----------



## jant71

LDAC is finicky bitch. Hopefully aptX lossless will be a nice girl.


----------



## Canabuc

jant71 said:


> LDAC is finicky bitch. Hopefully aptX lossless will be a nice girl.


Yes but not sure if it is the Samsung phone. Sound is incredible though. Aptx lossless will be marketer in 2 years I figure


----------



## dweaver

Canabuc said:


> What phone to you have? Do you have developer mode enabled in settings?


I have a Samsung S20 5G and have developer mode enabled.


----------



## Canabuc

dweaver said:


> I have a Samsung S20 5G and have developer mode enabled.


Ok so what you need to do is go into developer settings go to where LDAC is and change to a higher quality (990 might be stuttery if you intend to use your phone during music listening so try 660 in that scenario).

That selection alone won't actually give you 990. You then need to switch another swing for example switch from 32 to 24 bit and back. That will do the trick for they listening session and enjoy hi res wireless audio.

By the way do you have a hi res source?


----------



## dweaver

I have lots of FLAC files for music plus I can access amazon hires as well. Lots of my FLACS are ripped though so in reality no better than CD quality. But a few hi-res from HDTRacks and other sources.


----------



## Canabuc

Amazon I think it's best deal for hi res audio streaming especially if you already have prime.


----------



## dweaver

HOLY CR@P!!!! I don't think I have EVER EVER EVER actually used LDAC fully, no damn wonder I have been unimpressed! 

OK, using your instructions I tried 990 and it was a stuttering unusable mess. Will try with my 2  full size LDAC headphones later.

I then switched to 660 and that worked and DEFINITELY sounded better than the default LDAC settings. I used an Ultra HD Enya tune from Amazon. I then switched to one of my Patricia Barber Smash FLAC files and when I looked at the file details saw it was 24bit 96hz so set LDAC to those values and it sounded way more detailed. Tried it at 990 and same stuttering mess, so think 990 is just to high for TWS which does not surprise me at all.

I almost guarantee you most reviews of products have not been properly tested because of the way LDAC is implemented and the reviewer simply not knowing all this techy BS.

I am personally happy to know it now though. It will interesting to see if this impacts battery life even more though.


----------



## Canabuc

dweaver said:


> HOLY CR@P!!!! I don't think I have EVER EVER EVER actually used LDAC fully, no damn wonder I have been unimpressed!
> 
> OK, using your instructions I tried 990 and it was a stuttering unusable mess. Will try with my 2  full size LDAC headphones later.
> 
> ...


990 is a stuttery mess unless you close your phone screen and just let it play music.
When I do that it sounds great!
660 is better than best effort but at least can use phone while listening.
Thinking this is a Samsung issue.


----------



## BooleanBones

I think I am going to need to spend some time on LDAC this weekend. Initially listening on AAC tracks between my XM4s and the AZ60s, it just seems like the XM4s have more range (and juice). The AZs do sound purdy for sure.


----------



## TK33 (Dec 10, 2021)

Canabuc said:


> 990 is a stuttery mess unless you close your phone screen and just let it play music.
> When I do that it sounds great!
> 660 is better than best effort but at least can use phone while listening.
> Thinking this is a Samsung issue.


My Samsung phones (and tablet) were always like this as well.  Pixel 6 has the same issue for me, although aptX HD on my Pixel 6 has been flawless with my PI7s so I don't mind (PI7s are terrible using aptX adaptive on the LG V60 though).  On the other hand, no issues with the LG V60 and OnePlus 8t for me when using LDAC.  Both phones will go up to LDAC 990 on their own without having to go into the Developer Options menu or do any of the "techy" stuff.  Implementation still seems very inconsistent across devices.


----------



## dweaver

TK33 said:


> My Samsung phones (and tablet) were always like this as well.  Pixel 6 has the same issue for me, although aptX HD on my Pixel 6 has been flawless with my PI7s so I don't mind (PI7s are terrible using aptX adaptive on the LG V60 though).  On the other hand, no issues with the LG V60 and OnePlus 8t for me when using LDAC.  Both phones will go up to LDAC 990 on their own without having to go into the Developer Options menu or do any of the "techy" stuff.  Implementation still seems very inconsistent across devices.


Might have to dig out my LG phone, it is a V model, just not sure which one, it has LDAC though. Will try the 990 again later tonight.


----------



## clerkpalmer

erockg said:


> Sitting here judging these new Noble Fokus Pro.  First impressions.  WOW.  I mean, these things fit _perfect_, like molded IEMs in my ears.  SOOOO much better than the Falcon Pro.  Case is made of metal and plastic.  Sound... yeah, exactly what I expected.  Soundstage is wide, full.  Instrument separation is there.  Out of the box they sound great, but I do love to slap on a little EQ.  Bring up the low end a bit so my head can rattle.  I'm a Harman curve guy.  Still messing around.  Touch panels work great.  No honeymoon yet, just a lot of thinking and analyzing.  These buds have no frills.  Just play, pause, skip and vol control.  No wireless charging, no auto pause.  You're paying for the tri-drivers et al.  Not really sure what else to comment about yet until I keep playing.
> 
> The Wizards magic is blowing my mind, hypnotized for the moment listening to this:
> 
> ...


Definitely the best sounding tws I’ve heard. What tips are you using?


----------



## DigDub (Dec 10, 2021)

fursan7 said:


> So no differences in sound at all? Do these have in ear detection?


Upon further listening, there's a slight difference. The T2 pro has a slightly more neutral sound, it has lesser sub bass and less hot treble than the T1 pro. These do not have in ear detection unlike the T1 pro.


----------



## dweaver

On my phone 990 skips and has issues no matter the headphone and whether I have the screen turned off. Its better off but still skips to much to listen to music.

But actually using 660bps is better than the default adaptive rate. 

So again thanks @Canabuc  for helping me finally get to use LDAC at a higher rate.


----------



## erockg

clerkpalmer said:


> Definitely the best sounding tws I’ve heard. What tips are you using?


You know, out of the box, I'm using what was on them.  So far so good.  Did you prefer something else?  I swear I used them for hours.  Love the fit.


----------



## Ceeluh7

dweaver said:


> HOLY CR@P!!!! I don't think I have EVER EVER EVER actually used LDAC fully, no damn wonder I have been unimpressed!
> 
> OK, using your instructions I tried 990 and it was a stuttering unusable mess. Will try with my 2  full size LDAC headphones later.
> 
> ...


I have the Samsung galaxy note 10+ and I have been switching in dev options for quite some time to 990 and I haven't had any real stuttering... Hmm. Maybe once or twice here and there but for the most part it plays just fine. I used it on AZ60 as well as every other ldac set. I play flac primarily from my phone library. Does this happen when streaming mostly? Sorry if the answer is in a post further back


----------



## darveniza

erockg said:


> Yeah, but oddly the Grell website says ships in two weeks.  Drop says ready to ship.  Weird.
> 
> Interesting, they use SoundID to EQ for their app.  Not something proprietary.  Also, looks like the Drop version has wingtips.  I kinda like the Grell only version better without the extra branding.


Still waiting for my Grell when I ordered the same day they announced, basically have given up on receiving them


----------



## tinyman392

erockg said:


> Yeah, but oddly the Grell website says ships in two weeks.  Drop says ready to ship.  Weird.
> 
> Interesting, they use SoundID to EQ for their app.  Not something proprietary.  Also, looks like the Drop version has wingtips.  I kinda like the Grell only version better without the extra branding.


I didn’t realize they were ready to ship from Drop when I ordered from there.  I always just assumed I’d be waiting a month for them


----------



## dweaver

Ceeluh7 said:


> I have the Samsung galaxy note 10+ and I have been switching in dev options for quite some time to 990 and I haven't had any real stuttering... Hmm. Maybe once or twice here and there but for the most part it plays just fine. I used it on AZ60 as well as every other ldac set. I play flac primarily from my phone library. Does this happen when streaming mostly? Sorry if the answer is in a post further back


Streaming or using local FLAC files, actually any local file causes the stuttering if 990 is set. It happens alot with the screen on and less than half as often with it off.


----------



## Canabuc

dweaver said:


> On my phone 990 skips and has issues no matter the headphone and whether I have the screen turned off. Its better off but still skips to much to listen to music.
> 
> But actually using 660bps is better than the default adaptive rate.
> 
> So again thanks @Canabuc  for helping me finally get to use LDAC at a higher rate.


Another thing I noticed helped was turning off location services now it almost doesn't stutter even with screen on and not at all with screen off.
I read though that the range is shorter at that quality so maybe also try to keep phone a bit closer.


----------



## Canabuc

Ceeluh7 said:


> I have the Samsung galaxy note 10+ and I have been switching in dev options for quite some time to 990 and I haven't had any real stuttering... Hmm. Maybe once or twice here and there but for the most part it plays just fine. I used it on AZ60 as well as every other ldac set. I play flac primarily from my phone library. Does this happen when streaming mostly? Sorry if the answer is in a post further back


Switching to 990 alone doesn't do anything. You need to toggle another seeing with it for example switch the bit rate to a different number like 24 and back. Without doing that it shows 990 but it still is set at best effort so you aren't getting the best quality. But be prepared for stutters of you have screen on and location on.
These are Android bugs afaik.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

Ceeluh7 said:


> I have the Samsung galaxy note 10+ and I have been switching in dev options for quite some time to 990 and I haven't had any real stuttering... Hmm. Maybe once or twice here and there but for the most part it plays just fine. I used it on AZ60 as well as every other ldac set. I play flac primarily from my phone library. Does this happen when streaming mostly? Sorry if the answer is in a post further back


The hose device's CPU needs to be up to the task since it's effectively converting FLAC to LDAC and that seems to be a pretty resource-intensive task as bandwidth goes up. My OnePlus 8T can handle 990, even if I just leave things in default modes. The Pixel can't. It stutters like mad.

My conclusion? Sounds like it's not the TWS here. Kinda sad that it's not really disclosed to the customer, but would be really useful information. The price we pay for being on the bleeding edge...


----------



## Canabuc

miserybeforethemusic said:


> The hose device's CPU needs to be up to the task since it's effectively converting FLAC to LDAC and that seems to be a pretty resource-intensive task as bandwidth goes up. My OnePlus 8T can handle 990, even if I just leave things in default modes. The Pixel can't. It stutters like mad.
> 
> My conclusion? Sounds like it's not the TWS here. Kinda sad that it's not really disclosed to the customer, but would be really useful information. The price we pay for being on the bleeding edge...


It could also be an Android thing. One plus had custom version. My phone drive disabling location while listening is near stutter free even using screen while listening. Maybe 1 skip per song and none screen off.
Some phones it is the radio chips and how interference affects signal transmission be it wifi GPS etc.


----------



## Caipirina

d3myz said:


> Thanks for this review, Ever since I got the Ear Fun Free Pro 2 buds, i've been wanting to get my hands on theses.


because they are so pocketable AND sound great, I grab them more often when I go out than anything else ... 
I am not 100% sure, but i THINK it remembers the app settings (like bass boost EQ) when I switch then from Android to iOS device .. but not 100% sure ,,,


----------



## regancipher

Anyone else had a set of TWS where aptx-Adaptive causes them to only play in one ear?!

Been testing the 1More Omthing Airfree 2 and as you would expect from 1More, no response for over a week


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

Canabuc said:


> It could also be an Android thing. One plus had custom version. My phone drive disabling location while listening is near stutter free even using screen while listening. Maybe 1 skip per song and none screen off.
> Some phones it is the radio chips and how interference affects signal transmission be it wifi GPS etc.


We can agree to disagree, but I spent the better part of a few years looking into this. All the things you mentioned are CPU loads; it's your CPU that can't handle the task.

The Pixel 3a can't either, so this isn't a bragging point. Some devices will have no problem with transcoding 990, some physically will be unable to do it. If you're at the point where you're trying to disable a bunch of smartphone features to make 990 work, I think you're applying the wrong solution. Either stick with 660/Adaptive or upgrade the host device.


----------



## Canabuc (Dec 11, 2021)

miserybeforethemusic said:


> We can agree to disagree, but I spent the better part of a few years looking into this. All the things you mentioned are CPU loads; it's your CPU that can't handle the task.
> 
> The Pixel 3a can't either, so this isn't a bragging point. Some devices will have no problem with transcoding 990, some physically will be unable to do it. If you're at the point where you're trying to disable a bunch of smartphone features to make 990 work, I think you're applying the wrong solution. Either stick with 660/Adaptive or upgrade the host device.



Guess we will disagree then. I have a note 20 ultra. It has a snapdragon 865 chip. This was the flagship in 2020. You can't compare it to a pixel 3.

Additionally every phone is built differently. Some wifi GPS and Bluetooth chips can cause interference with each other. This is a known and documented issue. Turning off location but still using the phone only turns off the hardware polling the radios (wifi GPS BT chips to update location status of the phone etc). The processor is still being used fully.

I am not disabling any features except the ability for the radios to continuous poll my location which I probably shouldn't have on any way.


Additionally there are always software bugs in Android. Otherwise it wouldn't require the how need to get certain Bluetooth settings to stick which has nothing to do with hardware


----------



## zeinharis (Dec 11, 2021)

I found something interesting with the WF1000XM4.

EQ within the Sony app vs EQ on the phone (AudioWizard) :

EQ within the Sony app : too aggressive I would say, it made the trebles too forward, thin making it too hot (but still acceptable for me), not to mention that metallic sounds, and it made the soundstage sounds small.






EQ on the phone (AudioWizard) : now we are talking, it surely opens up the sound, the trebles are getting some extensions while still taking a back seat behind the mids, gone those thin, metallic sound while maintaining those wide soundstage.





Adding my preference ear tips for the XM4 which is the Sedna Crystal (second place), my first options would be the Tanchjim T300T and the third would be the Final tips for TWS.








Talking about LDAC. I always use 990 options but only with the cellular data on, I found it very stable even in malls (it rarely stutter), once I turn on the wifi or location the Bluetooth connection becomes unstable but maintaining solid data connections, I'm using Rog phone 5 btw.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

zeinharis said:


> I found something interesting with the WF1000XM4.
> 
> EQ within the Sony app vs EQ on the phone (AudioWizard) :
> 
> ...


Another satisfied Sedna user! Nice! Good find on the third-party EQ. For those who don't have access to AW, there's also Wavelet. Problem is it requires extra setup (including adb commands) to fully unlock its ability to work system-wide now. Not everybody's going to want to go through those steps. Does grant you the entire AutoEQ database, though, which turns my WH-1000XM4 from excessively warm to perfectly pleasant, especially once you boost Clear Bass by a couple notches to compensate for the lost bass. Have to imagine the curve they drew up for the in-ears would be similar in treatment.


----------



## zeinharis

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Another satisfied Sedna user! Nice! Good find on the third-party EQ. For those who don't have access to AW, there's also Wavelet. Problem is it requires extra setup (including adb commands) to fully unlock its ability to work system-wide now. Not everybody's going to want to go through those steps. Does grant you the entire AutoEQ database, though, which turns my WH-1000XM4 from excessively warm to perfectly pleasant, especially once you boost Clear Bass by a couple notches to compensate for the lost bass. Have to imagine the curve they drew up for the in-ears would be similar in treatment.



Definitely satisfied with Sedna, I already have the Xelastec but it broke within months, soo I got the Crystals instead this time.

Yup Wavelet would be excellent choice, haven't tried it though cause the Rog phone is already equipped with AudioWizard out of the box, another options would be the PEQ inside the UAPP. Either way I much prefer the phone's EQ rather than Sony's, it made the sounds better while maintaining those Sony's warm sound signature without loosing the details.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

zeinharis said:


> Definitely satisfied with Sedna, I already have the Xelastec but it broke within months, soo I got the Crystals instead this time.
> 
> Yup Wavelet would be excellent choice, haven't tried it though cause the Rog phone is already equipped with AudioWizard out of the box, another options would be the PEQ inside the UAPP. Either way I much prefer the phone's EQ rather than Sony's, it made the sounds better while maintaining those Sony's warm sound signature without loosing the details.


Agreed; UAPP's DSP features are pretty expansive and having the ability to tie in a few streaming services is a major value-add. Honestly, anything besides Sony's limited EQ set is an improvement.

How did you manage to break the Xelastecs?


----------



## zeinharis

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Agreed; UAPP's DSP features are pretty expansive and having the ability to tie in a few streaming services is a major value-add. Honestly, anything besides Sony's limited EQ set is an improvement.
> 
> How did you manage to break the Xelastecs?



I just use them normally with my XM4, then I see cracks on parts between the nozzle and the umbrella inside the tips within couple of months of use, and one day the nozzle and the umbrella detached themselves leaving the umbrella parts inside my ear, it is a scary experience cause Xelastec is really sticky, the doctor is finding a hard time to get them out of my ear canal, it took an hour to get the umbrella parts out.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic (Dec 11, 2021)

zeinharis said:


> I just use them normally with my XM4, then I see cracks on parts between the nozzle and the umbrella inside the tips within couple of months of use, and one day the nozzle and the umbrella detached themselves leaving the umbrella parts inside my ear, it is a scary experience cause Xelastec is really sticky, the doctor is finding a hard time to get them out of my ear canal, it took an hour to get the umbrella parts out.


Were you cleaning the tips regularly? The material they use on those Xelastec tips (TPE) can get brittle and dry out if the tips aren't kept clean. Wish Azla would be more obvious about that, but my lab experience has taught me that some of these more premium plastics/rubber materials require a certain level of care that most people aren't even aware of.

Can't remember who it was on Head-Fi, but there's apparently someone more outspokenly OCD about keeping their tips clean than I am, to the extent that they clean their ears before and after every insertion so nothing can ever stick to the tips in the first place. Especially under the Xelastec's shroud, man. That's just a hotbed for humidity and wax buildup. Premium tips require premium care, sadly.

Luckily, the Crystal are silicone and capable of handling a bit more abuse. There's a select couple sets I use those exclusively on due to their shape and how they benefit the sound sig (like the ADV M5-TWS 2nd Gen and WH3).

And speaking of tips, I spent the morning tip-rolling with the MTW2. I'm not usually a foam guy; I find them relatively hard to keep clean and another consumable part that requires constant replacement. That being said, I bought a ton of these things when I started the TWS journey and, by gum, I'm gonna use them. Turns out the Dekoni TWS tips make a perfect match for the MTW2 






Case-compatible? Check.
Secure fit? Check. Even passes the smile test. I can grin like a complete idiot and the seal doesn't break
Non-fatiguing fit? Check. In typical Dekoni fashion, the more dense and quicker-rebound foam seems to feel more silicone-like (if that makes sense).
Messes up stock EQ? Nah. It's still pretty faithful to its original signature. Attack on the bass is a little softer, but not to the point where it just ends up completely diffused.

Only question is going to be how well they hold up over time. My understanding is the only cleaning necessary for these is to moisten your fingers and wipe around the perimeter. Since these don't require compression like Comply foam, I feel a little more optimistic about their longevity.

Truth be told, I also tried Comply's MTW2-specific tips (with and without a core). The model without a core both took forever to expand and also didn't fill out the cavity in my Left ear (which is usually the smaller of the two). The ones with muffled the sound too much for my tastes, but they may be perfect for treble-sensitive folks.

If you're interested in picking up a set (or multiple sets) for yourself, they can be found here and here.


----------



## BooleanBones

zeinharis said:


> I just use them normally with my XM4, then I see cracks on parts between the nozzle and the umbrella inside the tips within couple of months of use, and one day the nozzle and the umbrella detached themselves leaving the umbrella parts inside my ear, it is a scary experience cause Xelastec is really sticky, the doctor is finding a hard time to get them out of my ear canal, it took an hour to get the umbrella parts out.


yikes


----------



## xSDMx

I absolutely love the TANCHJIM T300T tips. Happy to see another user. By far my favorite balance of fit, comfort, and sound. No issues with them ever getting stuck in my ears, either. Even on different nozzles.


----------



## erockg

Fokus are outstanding.  I can't put them down.  Phone calls seem to work well, although my voice sounds deep.  Sexy to some, but awkward on a work call.  I did a EQ using the hearing test they've added to the app and I'm loving the sound.  Noble truly does know how to make a great set of tws.  Highly recommend if you're looking for top notch sound above all else.


----------



## zeinharis

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Were you cleaning the tips regularly? The material they use on those Xelastec tips (TPE) can get brittle and dry out if the tips aren't kept clean. Wish Azla would be more obvious about that, but my lab experience has taught me that some of these more premium plastics/rubber materials require a certain level of care that most people aren't even aware of.
> 
> Can't remember who it was on Head-Fi, but there's apparently someone more outspokenly OCD about keeping their tips clean than I am, to the extent that they clean their ears before and after every insertion so nothing can ever stick to the tips in the first place. Especially under the Xelastec's shroud, man. That's just a hotbed for humidity and wax buildup. Premium tips require premium care, sadly.
> 
> ...



Yes I clean them and all my tips regularly with baby wipes (non alcohol), it seems that the Xelastec can handle my 5-6 hours of daily use (it's 111 miles between my house and the office), but that doesn't stop me from buying another Sendas 



BooleanBones said:


> yikes



Ikr, thankfully the doctor can pulled it out 



xSDMx said:


> I absolutely love the TANCHJIM T300T tips. Happy to see another user. By far my favorite balance of fit, comfort, and sound. No issues with them ever getting stuck in my ears, either. Even on different nozzles.



I love it too, they are really comfy, I have three pairs of them


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

zeinharis said:


> Yes I clean them and all my tips regularly with baby wipes (non alcohol), it seems that the Xelastec can handle my 5-6 hours of daily use (it's 111 miles between my house and the office), but that doesn't stop me from buying another Sendas


That's the spirit! Now if they weren't so dang expensive to replace 

Also, that's a lot of daily use. Any chance your ENT doc had something to say about such prolonged use?


----------



## dweaver (Dec 11, 2021)

Thanks @zeinharis when I turned off wifi my 990 issue resolved! So just can't use wifi. To many things in close proximity to each other causing interference.

Like @Canabuc I am using a close to top of the line phone S20 G5 so not very old and should have plenty of CPU ability.

I'm the end though this just shows that LDAC as a standard has definite issues. Unfortunately APTx LL seems to be costly because not enough manufacturers are picking it up, with Samsung leading that charge... . I know I can root my phone to get it enabled but my phone is to integral for work and on my dime so I can't afford to play games with that type of thing.

Good news is most of music is right on my phone so I don't need to stream much so turning off wifi isn't that big a deal for me.

Edit: now that I can hear 990 without interuption my old ears are struggling to hear a big difference (may also be my files that can be the limitation) plus I still get a bit of interference. So I think I will just live with 660 as it's good enough for me.


----------



## xSDMx

Does anyone have any xp with LHDC? Interested in trying it out given the Grell's support it.


----------



## Canabuc

dweaver said:


> Thanks @zeinharis when I turned off wifi my 990 issue resolved! So just can't use wifi. To many things in close proximity to each other causing interference.
> 
> Like @Canabuc I am using a close to top of the line phone S20 G5 so not very old and should have plenty of CPU ability.
> 
> ...


I kept wifi on but have Bixby routines set to turn off location when using my AZ60 and turn it back on after. This way I get the benefit of 990 without any features loss.


----------



## Ceeluh7

Canabuc said:


> Switching to 990 alone doesn't do anything. You need to toggle another seeing with it for example switch the bit rate to a different number like 24 and back. Without doing that it shows 990 but it still is set at best effort so you aren't getting the best quality. But be prepared for stutters of you have screen on and location on.
> These are Android bugs afaik.


Ya I know what you are talking about man... I actually do just that. I promise I never have an issue. I will say that maybe as I walk away with some devices, like the BTR5 gets weird every now and again when I am around 15 ft away and turn away from it with a wall between....weird. None of my tws LDAC ever had an issue but maybe occasional skips. By occasional I mean once a week. Qudelix 5k is great as well. Ya man, it seems maybe the issue is in the phone... Maybe.


----------



## Canabuc

I no longer have an issue with LDAC  stutteringduring streaming once location is off. I am using source from Amazon music via wifi not stored on my device


----------



## Ceeluh7

miserybeforethemusic said:


> The hose device's CPU needs to be up to the task since it's effectively converting FLAC to LDAC and that seems to be a pretty resource-intensive task as bandwidth goes up. My OnePlus 8T can handle 990, even if I just leave things in default modes. The Pixel can't. It stutters like mad.
> 
> My conclusion? Sounds like it's not the TWS here. Kinda sad that it's not really disclosed to the customer, but would be really useful information. The price we pay for being on the bleeding edge...


You are exactly right. My note 10+ has truly never had an issue with processing flac files on ldac. I'm sure some phones simply handle it better than others and you are right... This should be disclosed to the buyer, esp with ldac becoming more commonplace. BTW, sorry I was late on this as I've been working all freaking day long.


----------



## Ceeluh7

erockg said:


> Fokus are outstanding.  I can't put them down.  Phone calls seem to work well, although my voice sounds deep.  Sexy to some, but awkward on a work call.  I did a EQ using the hearing test they've added to the app and I'm loving the sound.  Noble truly does know how to make a great set of tws.  Highly recommend if you're looking for top notch sound above all else.


Your Killin me man. I am Def wanting to check this set out soon. I'm glad you are enjoying them


----------



## Canabuc

If anyone likes sound of the Moondrop Aria, the Technics with a bit of the eq in app can get very similar sound and presentation.


----------



## clerkpalmer

erockg said:


> You know, out of the box, I'm using what was on them.  So far so good.  Did you prefer something else?  I swear I used them for hours.  Love the fit.


I’m easing my way back in. Using stock mediums. Fit pretty well. Definitely leaps and bounds better than the Falcon. GD they sound sweet!  I’m back to an iPhone and even AAC is killer. I might try the Sednas for giggles. I’m glad someone else is with me on this. If only they had ANC…


----------



## erockg

Ceeluh7 said:


> Your Killin me man. I am Def wanting to check this set out soon. I'm glad you are enjoying them


I'm sorry.  I'm just really impressed.  They don't have any other of the features we all love, but man, the sound...  I was cranking an old album by a band called Badlands.  It's old and really needs a remaster (which will probably never happen) but whew, Jake E. Lee sounded sick.  Just closed my eyes for a bit and took it all in.  Rant over


----------



## erockg (Dec 11, 2021)

clerkpalmer said:


> I’m easing my way back in. Using stock mediums. Fit pretty well. Definitely leaps and bounds better than the Falcon. GD they sound sweet!  I’m back to an iPhone and even AAC is killer. I might try the Sednas for giggles. I’m glad someone else is with me on this. If only they had ANC…


I'm with you, ANC or even the wireless charging like the Falcon Pro.  But the case is definitely nicer.  I love the 3D printed shell and the touch sensors work flawlessly for me.


----------



## zeinharis (Dec 12, 2021)

miserybeforethemusic said:


> That's the spirit! Now if they weren't so dang expensive to replace
> 
> Also, that's a lot of daily use. Any chance your ENT doc had something to say about such prolonged use?



The doctor said to be careful with the Xelastec, don't use them again if I start to see cracks, he also said that the concept behind Xelastec is great but the execution is lacking due to it's durability.



dweaver said:


> Thanks @zeinharis when I turned off wifi my 990 issue resolved! So just can't use wifi. To many things in close proximity to each other causing interference.
> 
> Like @Canabuc I am using a close to top of the line phone S20 G5 so not very old and should have plenty of CPU ability.
> 
> ...



My phone are keeping stable Bluetooth connection at LDAC's max settings as long as I don't use wifi or the GPS, with only cellular I can go anywhere without having dropouts. Regarding the differences between 330 vs 660 vs 990, I can definitely hear the difference on sound quality between LDAC @330/AAC vs LDAC @990 (99% of my music files is flac ranging from 16-24bit, MQA, and DSD), the 990 is closer to what I get with my wired IEMs while I can only hear better soundstage on 990 compared to 660, but then again we all hear different results with our own ears

Regarding eartips, an honorable mention to Nuarl's Block Ear+ if you want accurate timbres


----------



## Bhelpoori

My thoughts on some of the LDAC issues:

On Android turning "location" off actually turns off (probably, unless there's a bug) Bluetooth beacons so it does directly affect Bluetooth as well as other stuff not connected with GPS like Wi-Fi alterations. I think in 12 they've been more precise with this rather vague setting. 
GPS radio is receive only and so won't interfere with Bluetooth, and is actually very rarely turned on.
CPU "power" to convert FLAC to LDAC. It isn't that intensive for a foreground task on any of the phones you mentioned, so the CPU has the capability of doing it, rather the issue is that it is a background and continuous task. On Android, the background scheduler/power manager is usually quite aggressive at keeping continuous background tasks to a minimum, to save battery life and I believe that is what you're seeing. Note: This is managed by manufacturers specific configuration and code for good reason, so it is phone and software version dependent. You will find the same CPU on a different phone will have different characteristics in this regard.
Wi-Fi and Bluetooth. If Wi-Fi is using 2.4Ghz then they are sharing the same fairly narrow radio spectrum with Bluetooth, only they are using completely different techniques to transmit. Whilst both have techniques to manage this, inevitably there are tradeoffs, and one can be throughput/range. This wouldn't normally matter but LDAC on Bluetooth "Classic" is pushing Bluetooth's original radio design to its limits.


----------



## Ceeluh7

erockg said:


> I'm sorry.  I'm just really impressed.  They don't have any other of the features we all love, but man, the sound...  I was cranking an old album by a band called Badlands.  It's old and really needs a remaster (which will probably never happen) but whew, Jake E. Lee sounded sick.  Just closed my eyes for a bit and took it all in.  Rant over


Awesome man. Sounds perfect to me.


----------



## LordToneeus

erockg said:


> I'm sorry.  I'm just really impressed.  They don't have any other of the features we all love, but man, the sound...  I was cranking an old album by a band called Badlands.  It's old and really needs a remaster (which will probably never happen) but whew, Jake E. Lee sounded sick.  Just closed my eyes for a bit and took it all in.  Rant over


They don’t make voices like Ray Gillen’s anymore.


----------



## erockg

LordToneeus said:


> They don’t make voices like Ray Gillen’s anymore.


You are very right.  Legend.


----------



## regancipher

xSDMx said:


> I absolutely love the TANCHJIM T300T tips. Happy to see another user. By far my favorite balance of fit, comfort, and sound. No issues with them ever getting stuck in my ears, either. Even on different nozzles.


I've been recommending them in my reviews for a while. Both the bass and treble options work well for me.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

regancipher said:


> I've been recommending them in my reviews for a while. Both the bass and treble options work well for me.


Any domestic suppliers? I can find tons of vendors on fleabay (all shipping from China) and international markets, but would rather buy domestically.


----------



## xSDMx

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Any domestic suppliers? I can find tons of vendors on fleabay (all shipping from China) and international markets, but would rather buy domestically.


I bought mine off of Amazon marketplace, but had to wait a few weeks for international shipping.


----------



## AlexCBSN

zeinharis said:


> I found something interesting with the WF1000XM4.
> 
> EQ within the Sony app vs EQ on the phone (AudioWizard) :
> 
> ...


I’m using the same tanchjim with mine, thanks for the eq option, i feel the xm4 super veiled but I’m not fond of the eq on the app. Ill give it a go

Heads up for the one plus buds pro, they are surely something quite impressive for the price, only 2 things: lhdc its reserved for op oxygen12 os, which… if you have a one plus… i hope you went back to o11, sad that an os has such dramatic end, it was the BEST android skin, and 2, the stock tips are ok, but it doesnt let you play a lot with others, the nozzle has an oval shape with a pair of retainers that have a funny grip and the charging case doesnt leave any space for em to stock full sized tips, i found the tanchjim and spiral dots ++ tws (the new ones) to work wonder with em, they pack a bass oriented tunning but the mids and the highs are quite impressive, for the price they receive way more playtime than my xm4 and jvc ha xc9t (amazon japan) 

The jvc could be the kings, heck, they have an AMAZING soundstage and one of the biggest sub bass I’ve ever heard… though the lack of an app, the controls and fit… leave a lot to desire, adaptive apt x works ok but it has a clipping issue whenever the recording has massive sub bass rumble, whenever it goes to apt x they sound smooth with any source (tidal, Spotify etc)


----------



## scubaphish

I know it’s not necessarily earbud of choice but I’m using the APP for convenience if nothing else. What third party tip would you recommend?  I think I’m over comply but can be convinced otherwise. That said, Sedna, ePro, etc?  Thanks a lot.


----------



## BooleanBones

scubaphish said:


> I know it’s not necessarily earbud of choice but I’m using the APP for convenience if nothing else. What third party tip would you recommend?  I think I’m over comply but can be convinced otherwise. That said, Sedna, ePro, etc?  Thanks a lot.


I am using the e pro tips on mine and quite satisfied.


----------



## erockg

scubaphish said:


> I know it’s not necessarily earbud of choice but I’m using the APP for convenience if nothing else. What third party tip would you recommend?  I think I’m over comply but can be convinced otherwise. That said, Sedna, ePro, etc?  Thanks a lot.


I was using the adapter that came from these: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B085M2TDJN/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

They allowed me to use any earbud tips.  I was using Spinfits but then settled on these ePro:  https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B08LPTSVCV/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

The combo gave me a better fit, nice seal and felt great.


----------



## regancipher

I quite like the Feaulle latex tips. Not on all buds, but on some, such as the Tronsmart Apollo Air and Huawei FreeBuds Pro, they're essential. I think they're called the h370 on those buds with the larger nozzles.


----------



## zeinharis

regancipher said:


> I've been recommending them in my reviews for a while. Both the bass and treble options work well for me.



The soundstage, adding a little bit of height and vocal comes through nicely as well



AlexCBSN said:


> I’m using the same tanchjim with mine, thanks for the eq option, i feel the xm4 super veiled but I’m not fond of the eq on the app. Ill give it a go
> 
> Heads up for the one plus buds pro, they are surely something quite impressive for the price, only 2 things: lhdc its reserved for op oxygen12 os, which… if you have a one plus… i hope you went back to o11, sad that an os has such dramatic end, it was the BEST android skin, and 2, the stock tips are ok, but it doesnt let you play a lot with others, the nozzle has an oval shape with a pair of retainers that have a funny grip and the charging case doesnt leave any space for em to stock full sized tips, i found the tanchjim and spiral dots ++ tws (the new ones) to work wonder with em, they pack a bass oriented tunning but the mids and the highs are quite impressive, for the price they receive way more playtime than my xm4 and jvc ha xc9t (amazon japan)
> 
> The jvc could be the kings, heck, they have an AMAZING soundstage and one of the biggest sub bass I’ve ever heard… though the lack of an app, the controls and fit… leave a lot to desire, adaptive apt x works ok but it has a clipping issue whenever the recording has massive sub bass rumble, whenever it goes to apt x they sound smooth with any source (tidal, Spotify etc)



Wf1000XM4, Third party EQ + LDAC @990 + T300T = bliss


----------



## raymondu999

So what do the people think now? I mean… are these wireless IEMs now worthy of duking it out on sound terms with cabled/amped IEMs? I’ve got a very old Senn IE8 and I was thinking of going wireless, but hopefully without having to go don in sound quality


----------



## LordToneeus

Best Buy has the black Sennheiser CX Plus for $129.95 today. I haven’t tried any of the Sennheiser TWS, but these have been the most appealing to me, so I couldn’t pass them up at $50 off.


----------



## raymondu999

Do bluetooth iems benefit from lossless? Youmre still limited to the low bitrates of your bluetooth codec right? Especially if you’re on an iPhone, which only has AAC


----------



## godkuma

FYLegend said:


> If you're willing to look past some shortcomings, Galaxy Buds 2 does have a pretty good transparency mode, AND you can use it with just one individual earbud (Earfun Free Pro 1/2 and Liberty 3 Pro cannot!). It also keeps a constant volume, unlike the Galaxy Buds+ which gradually decreases the total volume to "adjust" to
> 
> There's a catch though - once you start tweaking the tone of transparency (clear vs soft) it starts to make this strange hissing sound intermittently when the slider is dragged towards clear.
> 
> By shortcomings I mean a) low SBC bitpool so forget about using these if you don't have AAC devices b) scalable codec distorts due to WiFi interference


What are you on about? The L3P supports single bud use?


----------



## clerkpalmer

raymondu999 said:


> Do bluetooth iems benefit from lossless? Youmre still limited to the low bitrates of your bluetooth codec right? Especially if you’re on an iPhone, which only has AAC


Yes, they can benefit if the codec supports higher bitrates like LDAC and APTXHD.  You are correct about an iphone however.  No solution there ATM but there is a dongle that creative makes that can convert the audio out on the iphone to APTXHD which means you can upgrade.  Be nice if someone made a similar gadget with LDAC.  Whether the benefits are noticeable are subject to intense debate around here but at least in theory, BT can be improved with lossess.


----------



## Tommy C

LordToneeus said:


> Best Buy has the black Sennheiser CX Plus for $129.95 today. I haven’t tried any of the Sennheiser TWS, but these have been the most appealing to me, so I couldn’t pass them up at $50 off.


It's a good deal. I have the CX 400BT which is the older model. I didn't like the CX as they sound different. I.e. more meaty and more bass, less spacious.  
I think the CX Plus are also tuned differently from the first two models.


----------



## dj24 (Dec 13, 2021)

Jabra via e-bay is currently offering an outright steal for the following:


Jabra Elite 75t True Wireless Earbuds (Refurbished, Various Colors) *$40.79*
Jabra Elite Active 75t True Wireless Earbuds (Refurbished, Mint) *$51.99*
prices above are w/ code* SAVEONFAVES *applied.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

dj24 said:


> Jabra via e-bay is currently offering an outright steal for the following:
> 
> 
> Jabra Elite 75t True Wireless Earbuds (Refurbished, Various Colors) *$40.79*
> ...


Fantastic deal. Can confirm. Think that's even less than I spent for my EA75t


----------



## Darkestred

dj24 said:


> Jabra via e-bay is currently offering an outright steal for the following:
> 
> 
> Jabra Elite 75t True Wireless Earbuds (Refurbished, Various Colors) *$40.79*
> ...


This is a great price but i stayed away from the refurbs.  Too many complaints in the reviews.  40 bucks is bonkers though, for the 75t.


----------



## miserybeforethemusic

Darkestred said:


> This is a great price but i stayed away from the refurbs.  Too many complaints in the reviews.  40 bucks is bonkers though, for the 75t.


Really? Guess I got lucky, then. Both the 85t and EA75t were refurbs. Only downer is you didn't get a retail box, which I kinda prefer. Your stuff just arrives in a ziplock back tucked into a bubble mailer. Can't get more economic than that unless you have a long-distance slingshot lol.

But yeah, I guess you can count me as one of the guys with a good experience. No complaints and I honestly recommend going the refurb route _as long as it's from Jabra's official storefront._


----------



## bubsdaddy

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Really? Guess I got lucky, then. Both the 85t and EA75t were refurbs. Only downer is you didn't get a retail box, which I kinda prefer. Your stuff just arrives in a ziplock back tucked into a bubble mailer. Can't get more economic than that unless you have a long-distance slingshot lol.
> 
> But yeah, I guess you can count me as one of the guys with a good experience. No complaints and I honestly recommend going the refurb route _as long as it's from Jabra's official storefront._


Same here. No issues at all on a 75t, 75t active and an 85t. I also bought a 65t active about 2 weeks ago and it came new in a retail box.


----------



## LordToneeus

bubsdaddy said:


> Same here. No issues at all on a 75t, 75t active and an 85t. I also bought a 65t active about 2 weeks ago and it came new in a retail box.


Me three. Just recently gifted my refurb Active 75ts to my wife. No issues for us here. Got them from the same eBay listing several months ago.


----------



## AlexCBSN

clerkpalmer said:


> Yes, they can benefit if the codec supports higher bitrates like LDAC and APTXHD.  You are correct about an iphone however.  No solution there ATM but there is a dongle that creative makes that can convert the audio out on the iphone to APTXHD which means you can upgrade.  Be nice if someone made a similar gadget with LDAC.  Whether the benefits are noticeable are subject to intense debate around here but at least in theory, BT can be improved with lossess.


After 12/years as an iOS user, I can vogue that theres nothing better as an audiophile to quit apple and use android. BT and USB c dongle wise


----------



## aldinho878

Anyone know how the shure aonic free compares to the tw2 with 215s as far as sound quality? Is the aonic free basically a tws version of the 215? Or are drivers and eq different?


----------



## meridius

Hi all. 

I have a pair of momentum true wireless 2 but would like to know if the Sony xm4 in ear are better sounding when eq has been adjusted as I don’t rate the mic and and ANC very well but excellent sound. A user on here did post about this but wanted to get some more input. 

Thanks


----------



## Canabuc

I can confirm with my note 20 ultra turning off location while listening to LDAC 990 not one stutter.
Just set a night routine and it is automatic. When my AZ60 connect location turns off and turns back on when they disconnect.

Still best sounding buds I have heard Elektra and are close Rubel to my Moondrop Aria!


----------



## raymondu999

Yeah that’s what I thought. AAC to memory maxes out at something like 256kbps?


----------



## dimazbaik

Actually, i am impressed with Bluetooth technology, seriously... But from what i have encountered. 

Some BT iem was good on few week.. And suddenly one of them stop working if not both.. 

Your head position, dap position also had considerable factors. 

So here i am, joining team cable, or semi BT iem / headphones... 

As long as they passed ipx ratings.


----------



## dimazbaik

bubsdaddy said:


> Anyone know what's up with no MPOW earbuds being available on Amazon? I went to look for the M30's and they are only available from third party's now. The Flame line is nowhere to be seen either.


You could buy them on their site or ali express. 

AFAIK AMAZON taking them down because they think mpow side using payed review to hike the sales... Or business war thing's. 

If you had mpow officials marketplace on your country, it would help.


----------



## fursan7

fairx said:


> Hi guys. Sorry for off topic, but has anybody recable their tws? I mean making tws to wired. This sound ridiculous but I'm really liking my tws QCY T13 with kz tips. I seriously think going wired will give this tws more potential (bass control etc). The sound  destroy my modded Mh755 in mids and treble IMO


What eq are you using?


----------



## fursan7

DigDub said:


> Upon further listening, there's a slight difference. The T2 pro has a slightly more neutral sound, it has lesser sub bass and less hot treble than the T1 pro. These do not have in ear detection unlike the T1 pro.


What battery life you got from both T1 and T2 Pro.


----------



## jant71

One of the first impressions of the Final ZE3000...
https://chinese-engadget-com.transl...html?_x_tr_sl=auto&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en-US


----------



## erockg

aldinho878 said:


> Anyone know how the shure aonic free compares to the tw2 with 215s as far as sound quality? Is the aonic free basically a tws version of the 215? Or are drivers and eq different?


I've had/have them all.  I very much prefer the fit of the TW2 and I took mine a step further and added the SE846.  The Free IMO sound slightly better than the Aonic 215.  But the fit is nowhere near as good.  Pretty sure both the Free and 215 have a single dynamic driver.  Controls and features are the same for both versions.  I prefer the behind the ear push of a button that the TW2 offers.  Personally, I'd go with the TW2 with either the 215 or an upgraded SE bud.  Then you're not stuck if you want to upgrade or even use another MMCX that fit.  I couldn't be happier with my setup as it is now.


----------



## erockg

jant71 said:


> One of the first impressions of the Final ZE3000...
> https://chinese-engadget-com.transl...html?_x_tr_sl=auto&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en-US


I've always wanted to try the Final TWS buds  That design doesn't look to be very ergonomic for the human ear.  They DO look very cool though.


----------



## tinyman392 (Dec 14, 2021)

Got Grell in today. They are a pretty large, but do fit snuggly in my ear and are more comfortable than they look. ANC performance is OK, maybe about average, but nothing stellar. I have an air purifier about 5-10 feet away from me running on full blast. While my AirPods Pro cancels out the noise almost completely, quite a bit of it is coming through with the TWS/1. It's passable, though definitely far from top tier. Once you get music going, that sound is drained out.

The sound is rather smooth and warm, lots of sub-bass focus with the top end of the midrange and treble kind of tapered off. It's an entirely inoffensive sound that is quite laid back; great for long listening sessions and non-fatiguing to boot. To get to my listening volume I have to run it to 68.75% (for reference my AirPods Pro require me to go to about 56.25% while the AirPods Max are at 62.5%), I do have sound check on on my iPhone though.

ANC and transparency both do cancel out internal noises as well. I'll get a better test on this later on today. I will note that my voice sounds natural while in ANC mode, but in transparency, my voice is topped off with quite a bit of sibilance. To add, there is a distinctive sound difference between transparency and ANC. The bass textures much more with more natural timbre in transparency mode; it's not nearly as thick.


----------



## erockg (Dec 14, 2021)

tinyman392 said:


> Got them in today. They are a pretty large, but do fit snuggly in my ear and are more comfortable than they look. ANC performance is OK, maybe about average, but nothing stellar. I have an air purifier about 5-10 feet away from me running on full blast. While my AirPods Pro cancels out the noise almost completely, quite a bit of it is coming through with the TWS/1. It's passable, though definitely far from top tier. Once you get music going, that sound is drained out.
> 
> The sound is rather smooth and warm, lots of sub-bass focus with the top end of the midrange and treble kind of tapered off. It's an entirely inoffensive sound that is quite laid back; great for long listening sessions and non-fatiguing to boot. To get to my listening volume I have to run it to 68.75% (for reference my AirPods Pro require me to go to about 56.25% while the AirPods Max are at 62.5%), I do have sound check on on my iPhone though.
> 
> ANC and transparency both do cancel out internal noises as well. I'll get a better test on this later on today. I will note that my voice sounds natural while in ANC mode, but in transparency, my voice is topped off with quite a bit of sibilance. To add, there is a distinctive sound difference between transparency and ANC. The bass textures much more with more natural timbre in transparency mode; it's not nearly as thick.


EDIT:  I thought you were talking about the Grell buds, but maybe you're talking about the Finals above? 

DOUBLE EDIT:  Nevermind, I see you posted the same post on two threads.  Disregard first edit.  You _*are*_ talking about the Grell.

Can you throw up a few comparison pics with a few other sets at some point?  Curious how the app works with them.  Stupid me pulled the trigger and have a pair coming on Saturday -- Because I really need another pair.  How's the stalk for the mic?  Seems short and unobtrusive.  Are you able to get a good seal with the stock tips or are you rolling?


----------



## tinyman392

erockg said:


> EDIT:  I thought you were talking about the Grell buds, but maybe you're talking about the Finals above?
> 
> DOUBLE EDIT:  Nevermind, I see you posted the same post on two threads.  Disregard first edit.  You _*are*_ talking about the Grell.
> 
> Can you throw up a few comparison pics with a few other sets at some point?  Curious how the app works with them.  Stupid me pulled the trigger and have a pair coming on Saturday -- Because I really need another pair.  How's the stalk for the mic?  Seems short and unobtrusive.  Are you able to get a good seal with the stock tips or are you rolling?


Talking about the Grell, sorry.  I'm able to get a seal with the stock tips, I rarely have issues with any IEM and their included tips.  Haven't tested the mic yet, but it is unobtrusive.  Haven't tested app yet.


----------



## jant71 (Dec 14, 2021)

erockg said:


> EDIT:  I thought you were talking about the Grell buds, but maybe you're talking about the Finals above?
> 
> DOUBLE EDIT:  Nevermind, I see you posted the same post on two threads.  Disregard first edit.  You _*are*_ talking about the Grell.
> 
> Can you throw up a few comparison pics with a few other sets at some point?  Curious how the app works with them.  Stupid me pulled the trigger and have a pair coming on Saturday -- Because I really need another pair.  How's the stalk for the mic?  Seems short and unobtrusive.  Are you able to get a good seal with the stock tips or are you rolling?


Surprising. Didn't think you would go for the Grell. Was it the gesture controls thing? My prediction is they will be going back. I guess we will see.


----------



## zeinharis

jant71 said:


> One of the first impressions of the Final ZE3000...
> https://chinese-engadget-com.transl...html?_x_tr_sl=auto&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en-US



Description​Features

Adhesive-less Injection Molded Diaphragm
Surround is directly attached to the center with injection molding method.Tremendously light and precise diaphragm for exceptional accuracy and clarity

Special Silicone Surround
The material of the surround has been upgraded to a new type of silicone compound which is soft and exceptionally elastic. With the new type of silicone compound, the diaphragm could move in a more accurate pistonic motion which again reduce the distortion.

CCAW Voice Coil
To improve the performance of the f-Core for Wireless further, instead of a normal Copper voice coil, ZE3000 features a CCAW (Copper-Clad Aluminum Wire) voice coil.

f-LINK Damping System
f-LINK Damping System help to regulate the air pressure change inside the enclosed housing. Its brings IPX4 water resistance and achieve natural sound simultaneously.

Quality “SHIBO” surface finish

Ideally shaped charging case for maximum comfort

Support high resolution codec, aptX Adaptive
ZE3000
Speaker driver size
f-Core for Wireless 6mmΦ
Input
Bluetooth 5.2
Bluetooth code
aptx adaptive, aptX, AAC, SBC
Battery Life(Approx.)
35 hours
Charging time
1.5 hours
Frequency response
20~20kHz
Battery Capacity
2 * 35mAh + 300mAh
Waterproof
IPX4
What's In The Box
USB Type-C® Cable, final Type E for TWS eartips(SS,S,M,L,LL),
----------------------------------------

The WF1000XM3 uses 6mm CCAW dynamic driver as well. Looking forward for some real reviews for it!


----------



## jant71 (Dec 14, 2021)

Checking for new stuff...



Amazfit PowerBuds Pro. This one is already out like the Grell and Earfun etc. that they also gave awards to.





Cleer Goal II coming. Think I am the only one to buy a Goal and I am selling mine(now down to next to nothing but little interest). Sweet sound and aptX and strong build but no interest on here. They were good actually and they are making a second version so maybe elsewhere they did fine. Of course they are open awareness sports type.

Saw there will be power tables coming at CES so your stuff will be charging when you just put it down on said power desk/table. Bye bye charging pads lol as they give way for charging surfaces

Lets see what else I see.

More directional audio. Like the Bose. Actually looks like they are from the OEM and this is an improved version but with a better design(if the damn arm is adjustable). Hopefully the case will do more than hold them and no stupid cable dock thing...


 vs. 



Monster DNA Fit will have aptX Losseless, ANC, and be antibacterial...


----------



## erockg

jant71 said:


> Surprising. Didn't think you would go for the Grell. Was it the gesture controls thing? My prediction is they will be going back. I guess we will see.


Ha ha!  I love transparency, ANC and big drivers.  Had to try them.  

That said, these Noble Fokus are just amazing.  They won't be leaving my collection.  Been using them since Friday non-stop.  I'll be stunned if the Grell come close to them.


----------



## Aevum

Anyone has the Technics AZ60 and knows how it compares to the sony ?


----------



## DigDub

fursan7 said:


> What battery life you got from both T1 and T2 Pro.


I've not really run them out before. Maybe about 6-7 hours with ANC off?


----------



## regancipher

Pleasantly surprised by the QCY G1


----------



## DigDub

Aevum said:


> Anyone has the Technics AZ60 and knows how it compares to the sony ?


The Sony is darker and smoother sounding. The AZ60 has elevated treble and bass for a more exciting sound. Depends on what sound signature you prefer. AZ60 has all controls on the buds, Sony sacrifices controls choices. Sony has a much better battery life.


----------



## raymanh

What's a good upgrade from the Elite 75t's? Hoping not to spend as much as I did when I got them just after release. Plus Chifi offerings seem to be pretty good these days.

I mainly need an ANC upgrade. The ANC on the 75t's is both weak and very susceptible to wind noise.

Reading the last few pages, the FIIL T2 Pro seems like a good bet. XM4's ANC seems the best, but it's pricey.


----------



## dweaver

The AZ60 has excellent ANC and has gone on sale.for $199 so might be worth considering if it does so again.

ANC is not as good as Sony but very good none the less.


----------



## Tommy C (Dec 15, 2021)

raymanh said:


> What's a good upgrade from the Elite 75t's? Hoping not to spend as much as I did when I got them just after release. Plus Chifi offerings seem to be pretty good these days.
> 
> I mainly need an ANC upgrade. The ANC on the 75t's is both weak and very susceptible to wind noise.
> 
> Reading the last few pages, the FIIL T2 Pro seems like a good bet. XM4's ANC seems the best, but it's pricey.


My opinion on ChiFi is that they are normally cheaper for a reason.
Even my Fiil T1XS started developing some odd issues which basically made me leave them out of my rotation.
If you want good value for money you may wanna look at 1More.


----------



## dimazbaik (Dec 15, 2021)

MPOW flame, a semi wireless iem.

*why? *
* no risk one of yours are dead dead
* with a cable between them, no risk of fell
  and dead
*no risk the box are not working anymore      and then.. Also they are dead

*pro:*
* IPX-7 waterproof? Water resistant? 😜

* they promised 2 year guarantee

* balance sound ( imho good for metal and 
   Rock) can do any the eagle, or classic rock with ease, ozzy Osborne, or ningen isu with enjoyable low and mid.


But when comes to a jazzy sound like tokyo incident/tokyo jihen... Some details are missing, got covered with bass and punch.

*they have official representatives and service center here

*support aac

*8 hour + playtime

*cons*
* using a battery, and every battery would be dead, unlike those cable who could long lasting ( up to 10 year).

*not very comfortable, because the hook angles are to straight for long time use.



I would not say it's my new favorite, but the convenient one while multitasking / working up.

Don't expect good detail from this one


----------



## raymanh

dweaver said:


> The AZ60 has excellent ANC and has gone on sale.for $199 so might be worth considering if it does so again.
> 
> ANC is not as good as Sony but very good none the less.



How does the ANC compare to the 75t's? I can only really justify buying myself a new earbud if the ANC is significantly better than what I have already.


----------



## _mouse_

jant71 said:


> Checking for new stuff...
> 
> Amazfit PowerBuds Pro. This one is already out like the Grell and Earfun etc. that they also gave awards to.
> 
> ...


The monster are on sale?


----------



## dweaver

raymanh said:


> How does the ANC compare to the 75t's? I can only really justify buying myself a new earbud if the ANC is significantly better than what I have already.


I have not owned the 75T but have owned the WF-1000XM3 and the AZ60 is very close to as good as the Sony with less wind noise issues.


----------



## Caipirina

fursan7 said:


> What battery life you got from both T1 and T2 Pro.


Can’t say I ever maxed out the T1, but I had the T2 now on a few long runs and they are depleted after 3-3.5h with ANC on. Maybe also because it’s cold outside? 
But this is also a testament of how much I enjoy the T2. Very few other buds I have repeatedly run into the ground


----------



## raymanh

Just went to a store stocking Anker Soundcore products. Tried the Liberty 3 Pro's. I really liked the sound, but the fit for me just wasn't there. A bit of a shame. However the ANC didn't seem much better than my 75t. Perhaps i needed a slightly noisier environment, but it was quite noisy with lots of people chatting and store music playing.

Also, on a side note, I tried the Q30 and Q35 headphones. Very impressive. The Q30's sounded better but the Q35's were more comfortable. Although I may have been swayed by Oluv's (that Youtuber guy) high opinions of the Q30.


----------



## Aevum (Dec 15, 2021)

the Q30 is fine, its my daily driver for work, its ok for music and great for work, the ANC is meh.
Then again my hearing is sharp as hell, i can hear stuff form 2 rooms away. annoying, i have yet to find a ANC i cant hear over.


----------



## Ceeluh7

raymanh said:


> Just went to a store stocking Anker Soundcore products. Tried the Liberty 3 Pro's. I really liked the sound, but the fit for me just wasn't there. A bit of a shame. However the ANC didn't seem much better than my 75t. Perhaps i needed a slightly noisier environment, but it was quite noisy with lots of people chatting and store music playing.
> 
> Also, on a side note, I tried the Q30 and Q35 headphones. Very impressive. The Q30's sounded better but the Q35's were more comfortable. Although I may have been swayed by Oluv's (that Youtuber guy) high opinions of the Q30.


Ya it has an odd fit... I never used the stock tips, they just never seemed to seal... Ever. For me it Def required tip change. I managed to find a set that actually went into my ear and had a very nice seal


----------



## jant71

_mouse_ said:


> The monster are on sale?


Not yet. They will be at CES in a few weeks but no release info. The blurb only says this...

" Monster DNA Fit True Wireless Bluetooth Earbuds with ANC and innovative Ear hook design including durable fabric wrapped wireless charging case. Built-in rechargeable batteries give the user all day listening. With the rechargeable case the user will get a full 30 hours of music listening. Built in QCC chips in the DNA Fit are cutting edge. Stable Bluetooth connection, 24bit audio streaming, APTx lossless, and CVC8.0. The earbuds themselves are iPX5 rated to ensure they hold up against rain and the toughest workouts. Can easily be cleaned under running water to eliminate any bacteria growth."


----------



## clerkpalmer

_mouse_ said:


> The monster are on sale?


Anyone have experience positive or negative with the Bose?  Specifically for outdoor biking? Acceptable audio?  I wonder how they might compare to Aftershockz


----------



## jant71

clerkpalmer said:


> Anyone have experience positive or negative with the Bose?  Specifically for outdoor biking? Acceptable audio?  I wonder how they might compare to Aftershockz


It is a crapshoot with the Bose. A few have them hurt the ears. Some are okay with comfort but the sound is subpar as far as the bass amount. Some get along well with them. If they had a flexible design with a metal wire in and they could be shaped many with issues could be fixed since the pinch issue could be fixed and aiming the speaker could help those with subpar sound. Still better than Aftershocks or BC though. Below something like the Goal which has aptX and the case can charge and the fit is more assured. More of a risk and the price of admission is too high.

Hopefully someone other than Bose will get the second iteration cause it should be around Aftershockz prices($120-$140) than $200. You pay for the BOSE name and limited type of the design but you don't get your moneys worth. Check out Mu6 Ring as a cheaper alternative though different design but same principal of sound delivery.


----------



## erockg

clerkpalmer said:


> Anyone have experience positive or negative with the Bose?  Specifically for outdoor biking? Acceptable audio?  I wonder how they might compare to Aftershockz


I agree with @jant71 regarding the fit of the Bose.  I despise it.  I've had the new variations and the firmware has been updated to a point that you can EQ them.  That said, they don't compare with many better options.  Also, I use the Aftershokz for swimming.  It's pretty cool tech but the sound isn't great.  But, if you're still dealing with tinnitus, you should definitely try a pair for biking.  The open ear style will let you hear your surrounding and not have to deal with tips in your ears.  I didn't have a bluetooth model.  The waterproof version only let you store music on them locally.  If you can get them from someplace with a good return policy, I do recommend them for what you're thinking of using them for.  Just remember, again, they're not sonically amazing by far.  But they're lightweight and comfortable.  I would just lie floating in the pool immersed in tunes.  I dug it


----------



## clerkpalmer

erockg said:


> I agree with @jant71 regarding the fit of the Bose.  I despise it.  I've had the new variations and the firmware has been updated to a point that you can EQ them.  That said, they don't compare with many better options.  Also, I use the Aftershokz for swimming.  It's pretty cool tech but the sound isn't great.  But, if you're still dealing with tinnitus, you should definitely try a pair for biking.  The open ear style will let you hear your surrounding and not have to deal with tips in your ears.  I didn't have a bluetooth model.  The waterproof version only let you store music on them locally.  If you can get them from someplace with a good return policy, I do recommend them for what you're thinking of using them for.  Just remember, again, they're not sonically amazing by far.  But they're lightweight and comfortable.  I would just lie floating in the pool immersed in tunes.  I dug it


Thanks. The dilemma is whether an iem at low volumes but blocking wind is better than these open ears if total volume plus wind noise is the issue. My gut tells me a sealing iem that blocks wind is actually safer.


----------



## jant71 (Dec 15, 2021)

clerkpalmer said:


> Thanks. The dilemma is whether an iem at low volumes but blocking wind is better than these open ears if total volume plus wind noise is the issue. My gut tells me a sealing iem that blocks wind is actually safer.


Again I think the Urbanista Lisbon could be an option. Depends on your ear anatomy but they may not stick out much at all and not have wind noise be an issue and if the optional ear fin pushes them in that could help with both wind and sound. Those ear speaker designs are tough for biking and how the wind may be blowing.

Or I have the creative Jam ultralight V2 and that is good for biking and awareness and negates wind. Of course you have pads and while they can be a wind screen they may have a sweat issue with those.

Ambie has a TWS as well... https://www.aptx.com/products/ambie-am-tw01
Might be interesting on how/where the speaker fires and how it could counter the wind.


----------



## clerkpalmer

jant71 said:


> Again I think the Urbanista Lisbon could be an option. Depends on your ear anatomy but they may not stick out much at all and not have wind noise be an issue and if the optional ear fin pushes them in that could help with both wind and sound. Those ear speaker designs are tough for biking and how the wind may be blowing.
> 
> Or I have the creative Jam ultralight V2 and that is good for biking and awareness and negates wind. Of course you have pads and while they can be a wind screen they may have a sweat issue with those.
> 
> ...


Those ambies look cool. Thanks for the tips. I’m in a weird spot. Trying to avoid IEMs while at the same time looking for some background noise. I bought the Bose tempos and they are surprisingly decent but they don’t work well with my helmet and wind guards. Looks like the Bose sport opens don’t work with glasses. Perhaps the best/safest play is just a regular tws iem at low volumes. At least they block out wind. You do have me intrigued by the ambies.


----------



## cresny

I picked up the AKG N400 mentioned by the good folks here. I'm really loving the sound, both accurate and full, nice sub bass and dynamics, mids and highs sound reference-quality.  Even for the build quality alone, I can't believe I got these for $48. They're still available at that price so if you are on the fence, don't pass these up!


----------



## Tommy C

So just received the Shure Aonic TW2 2nd gen, ordered it in blue because it was on sale and it says “Special Edition Clear Sound + Extended Bass”. Too bad it wasn’t the description on the Amazon page. I do recall the SE 215 have the bass boost edition for but didn’t expect that.
Good/ bad, any thoughts? Still sealed and not sure I want the extra bass really.
@erockg does your TW2 package also say that?


----------



## erockg

Tommy C said:


> So just received the Shure Aonic TW2 2nd gen, ordered it in blue because it was on sale and it says “Special Edition Clear Sound + Extended Bass”. Too bad it wasn’t the description on the Amazon page. I do recall the SE 215 have the bass boost edition for but didn’t expect that.
> Good/ bad, any thoughts? Still sealed and not sure I want the extra bass really.
> @erockg does your TW2 package also say that?


Looks like I have the same ones you have.  Maybe the "blue" edition is special.  I don't feel they have crazy bass at all.  In fact, I wish I could EQ a bit more punch into my SE846s using them.


----------



## Tommy C

erockg said:


> Looks like I have the same ones you have.  Maybe the "blue" edition is special.  I don't feel they have crazy bass at all.  In fact, I wish I could EQ a bit more punch into my SE846s using them.


Thanks man. I’m going to charge them and give them a spin. Not sure what the Blue edition is so now I’m curious. Only reason chose the blue colour because it was $25 cheaper lol


----------



## erockg

Tommy C said:


> Thanks man. I’m going to charge them and give them a spin. Not sure what the Blue edition is so now I’m curious. Only reason chose the blue colour because it was $25 cheaper lol


My guess is they were just overstocked


----------



## Tommy C

erockg said:


> My guess is they were just overstocked



Found this comparison between the regular SE215 and the SE215 Special Edition.
If you can get past the tedious formatting it's a good read. 

TL;DR The Special Edition (Japanese Market?) are bassier with more upfront presentation and extended low frequencies and slightly more clarity but some say they lack highs, big time.  We shall see.


----------



## erockg

Tommy C said:


> Found this comparison between the regular SE215 and the SE215 Special Edition.
> If you can get past the tedious formatting it's a good read.
> 
> TL;DR The Special Edition (Japanese Market?) are bassier with more upfront presentation and extended low frequencies and slightly more clarity but some say they lack highs, big time.  We shall see.


Oh cool.  Thanks for sharing.  I sold my SE215 buds but now am very curious about the SE.


----------



## Tommy C

erockg said:


> Oh cool.  Thanks for sharing.  I sold my SE215 buds but now am very curious about the SE.


I remember many years ago I looked into the blue special edition but wasn’t  able to find them locally or on Amazon so I think you are right, they are probably overstock units. I’ll let you know how they sound in a day or two. 
At the end of the day they are kind of entry level IEMs but who knows. With the Shure TW2 adapters they may sound better than everything  I currently own.


----------



## DigDub (Dec 16, 2021)

Size comparison between fiil T2 pro, T1 lite and T1 pro.






The buds of the T2 pro won't fit in the case of the T1 pro and T1 lite, the magnetic pole is different and the T1 cases will repel the T2 buds.


----------



## FYLegend

godkuma said:


> What are you on about? The L3P supports single bud use?


I meant transparency mode in single bud/mono mode - up until recently the L3P did not have this and Anker seemed reluctant to add it despite some complaints online. The good news is that they have finally changed their mindes and are rolling out a new firmware update that enables transparency mode in mono mode. I'm just not sure if it defaults to transparency mode and/or remembers your settings.

I also find it annoying when earbuds do not remember their previous ANC setting, so I'm wondering if L3P users can confirm if it does or not.


----------



## aldinho878

erockg said:


> Fokus are outstanding.  I can't put them down.  Phone calls seem to work well, although my voice sounds deep.  Sexy to some, but awkward on a work call.  I did a EQ using the hearing test they've added to the app and I'm loving the sound.  Noble truly does know how to make a great set of tws.  Highly recommend if you're looking for top notch sound above all else.


How's the comfort of these? Are they as big as beoplay eq or Bowers pi7?


----------



## Tommy C (Dec 16, 2021)

Tommy C said:


> I remember many years ago I looked into the blue special edition but wasn’t  able to find them locally or on Amazon so I think you are right, they are probably overstock units. I’ll let you know how they sound in a day or two.
> At the end of the day they are kind of entry level IEMs but who knows. With the Shure TW2 adapters they may sound better than everything  I currently own.


OK. initial impression, the TW2 is a very polished product and nicely done.
The sound is excellent, balanced, crisp with great sense of details with strong mids and luckily not bassy at all so I think it’s safe to say the non-Special Edition SE215 would have been a bit too bass-light for me. They definitely have more than enough highs for me and they are not shy or too far behind. Soundstage is above average but not super wide but also not narrow or too intimate.
The ambient mode is superb and the equalizer is great. Fit is awesome, once you get used to it which took me less 10 mins I can wear them for hours.
Got them for for $165 mainly for the adapters and they are well worth it IMO so far but will report back soon.
Just to add, the Comply tips aren’t my thing as they muted the sound a little, are uncomfortable to my ears and are a pain in the neck to take off. Just bad bad bad design. Caused me almost to rage quit it and ship them back.


----------



## chinmie

DigDub said:


> Size comparison between fiil T2 pro, T1 lite and T1 pro.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


the T2 Pro is even smaller than the T1 Lite? that's interesting.. i tested my friend's T1 lite and really like the compact size. i might swipe the T2 Pro in the future


----------



## DigDub

chinmie said:


> the T2 Pro is even smaller than the T1 Lite? that's interesting.. i tested my friend's T1 lite and really like the compact size. i might swipe the T2 Pro in the future


Yes, the T2 pro is even smaller than the T1 lite, and the T2 pro has wireless charging while the T1 lite does not.


----------



## Aevum (Dec 16, 2021)

since people are falling over the N400, i just lost mine, the case fell to the floor when i was getting off a plane, when i got home there was only 1 of the 2 buds in the case, i was between "***" and "good riddance".

The N400, sounds good, it sounds amazing, one of the best sounding TWS out there. but...
- controls are absolutly horrible : 3/4 of the times i want to change volume it i pause the music.
- when i put them back in the case i have to clean the contacts and play with them like adjusting knobs making sure they are actually connected
- ANC is next to usless.
- isolation is meh at best (tried Alza, Comply, and stock tips)
- the app fails to connect half of the time, the times it does connect it makes you wait for 5 minutes until it see´s the buds.

Theres so much you can forgive, they sound great but are absolutly aweful at everything else.

im currently looking for their replacement, and my candidates are :
- Sony WF1000-XM4 : decent sound but worst then the XM3, LDAC, best ANC, needs to be EQ´ed to sound its best.
- Technics AZ60 : Ldac, Multipoint (incompatible with ldac), sounds almost as good as the sony, decent ANC
- Sennheiser momentum TWS 2 - Flagship sound, power bug from 1st gen corrected, ANC next to worthless from what i´ve heard but has APTX
- tanchjim echo - The wild card of the group. supposobly hana 2021 but in TWS form, a bit of a gamble, no ANC but good battery life and APTXHD and APTX adaptive.
- B&W PI 5 : good sound, APTX adaptive, acceptable ANC, reports of first run being buggy, Bulky case. 
- Soundcore Liberty Air pro 3 : everyone says they are 90% of the way there, but for that price, 90% isnt enough.

anyone has some wisdom to share on this topic ?


----------



## Ceeluh7

TRIBIT FLYBUDS C1

The Tribit Flybuds C1 are no joke... At all. I got them for $40 on Amazon with a 30% off coupon as they "normally" retail for $62 anymore whereas upon release they were around $80. I saw so many positive reviews & I always wanted to check them out. They sound fantastic as they are strictly a SQ set imo, with good comfort and surprising call quality. Very low latency for videos, no lip syncing weirdness. To me, my ears, they outshine the H1 at this early stage in the game. I have been going back and forth between the two. For the low price on Amazon right now it is a no brainer.

These bad boys have Apt-x, AAC, SBC with BT 5.2 running Qualcomm 3040 and have a stupid 12 Hrs on the Buds and 50 with the case. Ridiculous. These have a IPX5 waterproof rating as well.
The case is very portable and has a nice feel to it, it has that soft touch plastic and is sturdy enough, no weak points, nothing loose or cheap about it. The Buds themselves are the stem type and sit only slightly into your ear and so far have caused me no fatigue yet I also have gotten a very good seal (subjective) and good passive noise isolation with the better than average tip selection... For the first time in a very long time and too many tws to name... I am using the stock tips (subject to change).
They have a push button design and I have to say, they did a great job in positioning the push button; it is located on the stem in a very intuitive spot halfway up the stem. They look good too, I really do not like stem style and but I can dig these for sure, they do not look stupid at all.

Overall the C1 have a very dynamic and clean and clear presentation. Closer to a balanced sound sig and spacious enough. They do get pretty loud as well... Nice.
Very tight Bass and not overdone, yet it has good punch. The Bass has a faster attack with good decay and is not at all sloppy or boomy. Please do not get me wrong, the bass here is strong and has good weight as I am a man who absolutely NEEDS BASS. This is not considered a Bass head set, with the balanced tuning, yet with a lil eq it can be "just that" as these drivers seem to handle well whatever you throw at them without distortion. Sounds like a good Titanium Driver or a good Beryllium coated driver. They chose a 6mm Dynamic PEEK Composite diaphragm and implemented it nicely. The Sub-bass has good rumble when called upon and carries right over to the mid-bass with good and tight thump.

The Midrange is great here as it sounds more natural than most earbuds, especially budget buds. There is nothing unnatural or artificial and the Mids are pushed up enough to be present. Vocals are portrayed nicely as the males vocals have sufficient weight and are crisp when needed yet soft and emotional as the track calls for it. Same goes for female vocals, very pleasant. Nothing peircing in the upper mids either.

The Highs are very nice. They are extended very well and create a spaciousness and lend themselves to above average detail retrieval for a tws with the good resolution and clarity. If anything the Highs are only the slightest bit boosted over the rest of the pack here. There is nothing even slightly peircing here yet there is air to the sound, again a well implemented Driver that has been tuned well.

I must keep perspective here... This is a tws, as you know, and as you know this mini lil review is based on this fact with the shortcomings of bt well known in this group. However, my dudes... I am impressed for the amount I paid and the quality here. I don't want to say where it ranks yet, still feeling that out and I am not hyping these either but I will admit it is hard not to with such a clear presentation and good dynamics that make the music I'm listening to feel good. I can't imagine this budget set wouldn't climb my ranks of sub $100.


Tommy C said:


> OK. initial impression, the TW2 is a very polished product and nicely done.
> The sound is excellent, balanced, crisp with great sense of details with strong mids and luckily not bassy at all so I think it’s safe to say the non-Special Edition SE215 would have been a bit too bass-light for me. They definitely have more than enough highs for me and they are not shy or too far behind. Soundstage is above average but not super wide but also not narrow or too intimate.
> The ambient mode is superb and the equalizer is great. Fit is awesome, once you get used to it which took me less 10 mins I can wear them for hours.
> Got them for for $165 mainly for the adapters and they are well worth IMO so far but will report back soon.
> Just to add, the Comply tips aren’t my thing as they muted the sound a little, are uncomfortable to my ears and are a pain in the neck to take off. Just bad bad bad design. Caused me almost to rage quit it and ship them back.


I've had the wired version of the se215 blue and I can confirm they have a bit more air in the mix. A bit muffled at times but they are fine. I like them much better than the original 215. Of course I haven't listened to them in about a year but for iem comparisons from time to time but they aren't a bad set at all. I agree the Foams are ridiculous, they seal amazing with the silicon tips


----------



## Royaume

I also do not think wireless is up to par yet.
Also, one of the major advantages to purchasing non-electronic goods like headphones, iems and keyboards is that they will last you a lifetime, or at least have good resale value. Wireless versions of all these products depreciate much faster though, typically used until they break and then discarded. Neither can they be serviced or modded.


----------



## davescleveland

Ok at the risk of losing my headfi membership lol, I just got the beats pro fit to try spatial audio and holy cow the soundstage on these is amazing. Actually kind of light on the bass. What a surprise. I'm loving these


----------



## zeinharis

Aevum said:


> since people are falling over the N400, i just lost mine, the case fell to the floor when i was getting off a plane, when i got home there was only 1 of the 2 buds in the case, i was between "***" and "good riddance".
> 
> The N400, sounds good, it sounds amazing, one of the best sounding TWS out there. but...
> - controls are absolutly horrible : 3/4 of the times i want to change volume it i pause the music.
> ...



Add Nuarl N6 Pro 2nd edition, or Nuarl N10 Plus, or Aviots (their dynamic driver series). They all doesn't have the greatest apps or battery life or ANC and Ambient mode, but surely they sound really good.


----------



## LordToneeus

davescleveland said:


> Ok at the risk of losing my headfi membership lol, I just got the beats pro fit to try spatial audio and holy cow the soundstage on these is amazing. Actually kind of light on the bass. What a surprise. I'm loving these


I'm glad you like them.   I actually bought them twice in a week's period.  As far as fit and features, I couldn't have been more pleased with them.  But the sound? Every time I put them in my ears and turned on the music, I thought "do these sound good enough?"  That apparently isn't a good sign for me.  I was immediately delighted when I fired up my Melomania Touch, AKG N400nc, Fiil T1X, LP2 and LP3, etc.  Not so with the Beats.


----------



## Aevum

the thing is that beats under apple has been quite different then beats under monster electronics, its still bassy but its more refined.

They are still apples lower end and headphones for "peasents that cant afford proper earpods", but they aint bad now that they are cheaper and apple is using tunning actually made for human ears.


----------



## erockg

aldinho878 said:


> How's the comfort of these? Are they as big as beoplay eq or Bowers pi7?


I don't think they're that much bigger if at all.  I posted a pic of the size compared to my EQs a bunch of posts back.  They fit me like a glove.  Perfect.


----------



## erockg (Dec 16, 2021)

davescleveland said:


> Ok at the risk of losing my headfi membership lol, I just got the beats pro fit to try spatial audio and holy cow the soundstage on these is amazing. Actually kind of light on the bass. What a surprise. I'm loving these


Nah, you're 100 right.  The BFP blow away the APP imo.  I just wish the little built-in wingtip didn't kill my ear at times and that they had wireless charging.  Spatial Audio is great tech.  Even better with my AirPods Max


----------



## erockg

Tommy C said:


> OK. initial impression, the TW2 is a very polished product and nicely done.
> The sound is excellent, balanced, crisp with great sense of details with strong mids and luckily not bassy at all so I think it’s safe to say the non-Special Edition SE215 would have been a bit too bass-light for me. They definitely have more than enough highs for me and they are not shy or too far behind. Soundstage is above average but not super wide but also not narrow or too intimate.
> The ambient mode is superb and the equalizer is great. Fit is awesome, once you get used to it which took me less 10 mins I can wear them for hours.
> Got them for for $165 mainly for the adapters and they are well worth IMO so far but will report back soon.
> Just to add, the Comply tips aren’t my thing as they muted the sound a little, are uncomfortable to my ears and are a pain in the neck to take off. Just bad bad bad design. Caused me almost to rage quit it and ship them back.


I've been alternating tips between the longer Comply tips, the Shure foam beans and the Westone silicone tips.  I usually prefer the Shure beans.


----------



## Devodonaldson

erockg said:


> Sitting here judging these new Noble Fokus Pro.  First impressions.  WOW.  I mean, these things fit _perfect_, like molded IEMs in my ears.  SOOOO much better than the Falcon Pro.  Case is made of metal and plastic.  Sound... yeah, exactly what I expected.  Soundstage is wide, full.  Instrument separation is there.  Out of the box they sound great, but I do love to slap on a little EQ.  Bring up the low end a bit so my head can rattle.  I'm a Harman curve guy.  Still messing around.  Touch panels work great.  No honeymoon yet, just a lot of thinking and analyzing.  These buds have no frills.  Just play, pause, skip and vol control.  No wireless charging, no auto pause.  You're paying for the tri-drivers et al.  Not really sure what else to comment about yet until I keep playing.
> 
> The Wizards magic is blowing my mind, hypnotized for the moment listening to this:
> 
> ...


Yeah. I have Falcon Pro, xm4, and Galaxy Buds pro. I heard the Fokus pro at Canjam and loved them. I don't need another TWS, but they sounded so much better than Falcon Pro and xm4 that I wanted them. Holding off cuz other things on my list


----------



## davescleveland

Aevum said:


> the thing is that beats under apple has been quite different then beats under monster electronics, its still bassy but its more refined.
> 
> They are still apples lower end and headphones for "peasents that cant afford proper earpods", but they aint bad now that they are cheaper and apple is using tunning actually made for human ears.


Better than these grells


----------



## AmericanSpirit

Whoever shared AKG’s holiday sale for N400 TWS for 47.99, Thank you!

A perfect xmas gift for myself and friends/family.

https://www.akg.com/Headphones/Earbuds/N400NCTWS-.html


----------



## Aevum

i assure you, 48 bucks is a fair price for the n400, the sound quality is the only good thing about them.


----------



## clerkpalmer

Aevum said:


> i assure you, 48 bucks is a fair price for the n400, the sound quality is the only good thing about them.


True but it's REALLY good.


----------



## erockg

Devodonaldson said:


> Yeah. I have Falcon Pro, xm4, and Galaxy Buds pro. I heard the Fokus pro at Canjam and loved them. I don't need another TWS, but they sounded so much better than Falcon Pro and xm4 that I wanted them. Holding off cuz other things on my list


I flipped my NFPs a while back.  I do miss them, but wow, the fit, form and sound of the Fokus are so great.


----------



## scubaphish (Dec 16, 2021)

clerkpalmer said:


> True but it's REALLY good.


Here’s to hoping. Just ordered as my dog walkers if nothing else. Would be nice to walk around NYC with them and have some noise reduced. Sometimes walking around town I get worried my beloved Gemini are going to fall out.

And something sounds better than it APP


----------



## alchemical

erockg said:


> I flipped my NFPs a while back.  I do miss them, but wow, the fit, form and sound of the Fokus are so great.


How is the volume of the Fokus? I don’t listen at particularly high levels and yet too many TWS I’ve come across I’m almost maxing out. A little headroom to play with would be nice.


----------



## Ceeluh7

Hey fellas... How is the volume level of the AKG N400? I can't stand earbuds that barely loud enough but with the deal on the Harman site it seems hard to pass up.


----------



## Tommy C

erockg said:


> I've been alternating tips between the longer Comply tips, the Shure foam beans and the Westone silicone tips.  I usually prefer the Shure beans.



The Shure tips size M work best for me.

I must say the TW2 + the SE215 don't sound like a TWS device which is a big compliment in this realm.
The sound is clear, defined, spacious and plenty loud and the EQ is one of the best I have seen and I settled on Bass Boost tweaked with less bass to give the music some punch and warmth but nothing too crazy as I'm not into too much bass.
Like you, I also enjoy the ambient mode feature that kicks in when the music is paused. Really useful.


----------



## tinyman392

Ceeluh7 said:


> Hey fellas... How is the volume level of the AKG N400? I can't stand earbuds that barely loud enough but with the deal on the Harman site it seems hard to pass up.


I play them around the same volume as my AirPods Max and about one click (1/16) more than my AirPods Pro.


----------



## cresny

Ceeluh7 said:


> Hey fellas... How is the volume level of the AKG N400? I can't stand earbuds that barely loud enough but with the deal on the Harman site it seems hard to pass up.


They happen to be the least efficient TWS I have. Compared to the Geminis, Sony XM3, soundcore air 2 pro, these go pretty far north on the volume slider. But I think their amp is a pretty good match to the drivers and it's still plenty for me without maxing it.


----------



## cresny

Aevum said:


> i assure you, 48 bucks is a fair price for the n400, the sound quality is the only good thing about them.


It seems like they were made by pure audio engineers who at the last minute said, "oh yeah, we need controls".  Ironically, they have a pretty good transparency mode, but good luck getting to it by tapping or swiping.


----------



## AmericanSpirit

Aevum said:


> i assure you, 48 bucks is a fair price for the n400, the sound quality is the only good thing about them.


Haha yea I’m kinda expecting some clumsy functionalites👍 Hope N400 is better than Nekocake which I received today.

Nekocake not a bad pair, pretty decent cheaper options to AirPodPro. ANC isn’t super effective like Apple’s level but that’s hard to expect from 42USD TWS. Tonality balance is pretty close to Moondrop’s other TWS Sparks too.


----------



## davescleveland

Ceeluh7 said:


> Hey fellas... How is the volume level of the AKG N400? I can't stand earbuds that barely loud enough but with the deal on the Harman site it seems hard to pass up.


Awesome you will love them


----------



## davescleveland

Aevum said:


> since people are falling over the N400, i just lost mine, the case fell to the floor when i was getting off a plane, when i got home there was only 1 of the 2 buds in the case, i was between "***" and "good riddance".
> 
> The N400, sounds good, it sounds amazing, one of the best sounding TWS out there. but...
> - controls are absolutly horrible : 3/4 of the times i want to change volume it i pause the music.
> ...


Geekfly gf8s awesome sound great battery


----------



## scubaphish

cresny said:


> It seems like they were made by pure audio engineers who at the last minute said, "oh yeah, we need controls".  Ironically, they have a pretty good transparency mode, but good luck getting to it by tapping or swiping.


I’m intrigued as to what my experience will be. Worst case scenario they go back…they seem to have  a reasonable  return policy. Best case, I’ve got a solid city-walking replacement for my APP. 
I sincerely appreciate everyone’s sharing of pros and cons.


----------



## FYLegend

Is Earfun Free Pro 2 not compatible with FIIL app? What about AirReps156X?

My main gripe is that they apparently don't allow mono bud transparency, but assuming it still uses Airoha then the AirReps app might be able to force transparency on one bud (but having to go into the app is a real waste of time). Wondering if someone can make a custom firmware that defaults transparency mode in mono mode for all Airoha devices (as on TaoTronics SoundLiberty 94)...


----------



## erockg

alchemical said:


> How is the volume of the Fokus? I don’t listen at particularly high levels and yet too many TWS I’ve come across I’m almost maxing out. A little headroom to play with would be nice.


They can get incredibly loud.


----------



## erockg

Ceeluh7 said:


> Hey fellas... How is the volume level of the AKG N400? I can't stand earbuds that barely loud enough but with the deal on the Harman site it seems hard to pass up.


Loud.  I don’t think you’ll be disappointed.  Unlike some, I’m not having control issues.  Wait, issues with the controls.


----------



## erockg

Tommy C said:


> The Shure tips size M work best for me.
> 
> I must say the TW2 + the SE215 don't sound like a TWS device which is a big compliment in this realm.
> The sound is clear, defined, spacious and plenty loud and the EQ is one of the best I have seen and I settled on Bass Boost tweaked with less bass to give the music some punch and warmth but nothing too crazy as I'm not into too much bass.
> Like you, I also enjoy the ambient mode feature that kicks in when the music is paused. Really useful.


Glad you’re digging them so far!


----------



## AmericanSpirit

Nekocake and APP size comparison reference: pretty similar


----------



## Tommy C (Dec 17, 2021)

erockg said:


> Glad you’re digging them so far!


The SE215 (special edition?) are capable and the EQ makes all the difference in the world.
They are on par with the the Sennheiser CX 400BT for technicalities but with better details and much more versatile as the Sennheiser EQ is almost useless.
I think as you mentioned, with SE846 although I never had them it's an end-game sound quality speaking.


----------



## Tommy C

FYLegend said:


> Is Earfun Free Pro 2 not compatible with FIIL app? What about AirReps156X?
> 
> My main gripe is that they apparently don't allow mono bud transparency, but assuming it still uses Airoha then the AirReps app might be able to force transparency on one bud (but having to go into the app is a real waste of time). Wondering if someone can make a custom firmware that defaults transparency mode in mono mode for all Airoha devices (as on TaoTronics SoundLiberty 94)...


I believe they are no compatible with the Fiil+ app yet. 
If you're an Android user there is a workaround to get the English app but if iOS you're out of luck.

I'm not sure why it's so difficult for them to make the app compatible with some of their models. Just plain odd.


----------



## tinyman392

AmericanSpirit said:


> Haha yea I’m kinda expecting some clumsy functionalites👍 Hope N400 is better than Nekocake which I received today.
> 
> Nekocake not a bad pair, pretty decent cheaper options to AirPodPro. ANC isn’t super effective like Apple’s level but that’s hard to expect from 42USD TWS. Tonality balance is pretty close to Moondrop’s other TWS Sparks too.


The ANC works better than the Grell buds I just got recently. It’s just a little worse than my APP, but still very good.


----------



## scubaphish

Tommy C said:


> I honestly. The SE215 (special edition?) are capable and the EQ makes all the difference in the world.
> They are on par with the the Sennheiser CX 400BT for technicalities but with better details and much more versatile as the Sennheiser EQ is almost useless.
> I think as you mentioned, with SE846 although I never had them it's an end-game sound quality speaking.


I’ve got a set of 535s that would probably benefit from that set up. Maybe not end game, but damn sure close. I’m just concerned as a new glasses wearer….having receiver behind ears and all. Thoughts?


----------



## Tommy C (Dec 17, 2021)

scubaphish said:


> I’ve got a set of 535s that would probably benefit from that set up. Maybe not end game, but damn sure close. I’m just concerned as a new glasses wearer….having receiver behind ears and all. Thoughts?



I tried them with sunglasses and they work fine, wore the adapters first and then the shades but not the other way around but can snap a few pics in the morning for you if you would like.
I'll be very surprised if you could find a better sound then the SE535 in the TWS space but who knows


----------



## erockg

scubaphish said:


> I’ve got a set of 535s that would probably benefit from that set up. Maybe not end game, but damn sure close. I’m just concerned as a new glasses wearer….having receiver behind ears and all. Thoughts?


Is doable but you can definitely feel them.  Also, masks can get tangled.  I usually use mine at home or on walks with limited sunlight.


----------



## raymanh

Aevum said:


> the Q30 is fine, its my daily driver for work, its ok for music and great for work, the ANC is meh.
> Then again my hearing is sharp as hell, i can hear stuff form 2 rooms away. annoying, i have yet to find a ANC i cant hear over.



Is the Q30 ANC meh compared to other headphones, or compared to wireless IEMs too? (I'm assuming, correctly I think, that headphone ANC is generally better than wireless IEMs).

Wondering if you could compare the ANC performance to one of these:

SoundPeats T2
FIIL T2 Pro/Earfun equivalent
Galaxy Buds 2

Thanks.


----------



## Aevum

I guess i shouldnt complicate things. 

AZ60 vs PI5 vs XM4...


----------



## Juturna

raymanh said:


> Is the Q30 ANC meh compared to other headphones, or compared to wireless IEMs too? (I'm assuming, correctly I think, that headphone ANC is generally better than wireless IEMs).
> 
> Wondering if you could compare the ANC performance to one of these:
> 
> ...


It's very difficult to compare over-ear headphones to TWS earbuds, but in my opinion the ANC is definitely better on the Q30 over the SoundPeats T2 at the very least, but I haven't really tested the Q30's out in noisy environments so i'm not sure. Also depends on how good of a seal you have with the T2's. 
The ANC on the Q30 is GOOD, is my point. Worse than industry leaders but honestly not that far behind, and if you get them for a good price they're a no-brainer, so worth it. I would use mine more if I didn't look like such a goof with over-ear headphones.


----------



## Juturna

AmericanSpirit said:


> Nekocake and APP size comparison reference: pretty similar


How do you feel about the sound in comparison to the Airpods Pro?


----------



## helmutcheese (Dec 17, 2021)

Apart from a new ANC feature to help with mids they are a bit bulky and 5 hours battery without ANC is a joke today, the would LDHC would kill it.


----------



## BooleanBones (Dec 17, 2021)

Aevum said:


> I guess i shouldnt complicate things.
> 
> AZ60 vs PI5 vs XM4...


Here is my personal take. The PI5s don't match up to the others two except maybe comfort and possibly out of the box SQ. If Aptx is a must have, then of course they have that. It 


really boils down to the AZs vs the XM4s in my opinion which I will try and summarize below. Someone summed it up a few pages back perfectly when they said the XM4s are more wearable for long periods and that the AZs are the perfect set for the short "ooomph" factor. If mic abilities are important, the AZs win this over the XM4s. I like the XM4s hold to pause ambient mode a lot and the wind setting works well too. I have not had a ton of opportunity to compare the the ANC between the AZs and the XM4s. The Sony batteries last longer. The AZ60s are smaller but go a bit deeper in your ear canal (which can be a bit uncomfortable for some). There have been a number of posts regarding the sound profiles between the two which may give you some further insight, but both require adjusting via EQ and possibly a little experimenting with tips (The Sony tips are no good for me personally). The XM4s also have wireless charging. Picture comparison below for sizing (PI7s in the picture, but same size as PI5s).


----------



## tinyman392

helmutcheese said:


> Apart from a new ANC feature to help with mids they are a bit bulky and 5 hours battery without ANC is a joke today, the would LDHC would kill it.



They do have ANC though… it’s not good ANC, but they do have it.


----------



## helmutcheese (Dec 17, 2021)

Did you watch it fully, they do have ANC he said is pretty good plus an addition ANC feature called NAR

When did I say they did not have ANC, I said they have 5 hours battery with no ANC (as in not enabled)?


----------



## xSDMx

I suspect there might be more at play re: Grell battery life. I don't have my set anymore, but during my first usage session I noticed very fast battery drain that I couldn't reproduce the next day. Possibly the battery controller learning or a quirk of the QCC5141 implementation.


----------



## helmutcheese

I ideally fully cycle my buds a few times (use till each side turns off not partially charge) to try condition them for a hopefully longer life.


----------



## Tommy C

xSDMx said:


> I suspect there might be more at play re: Grell battery life. I don't have my set anymore, but during my first usage session I noticed very fast battery drain that I couldn't reproduce the next day. Possibly the battery controller learning or a quirk of the QCC5141 implementation.



Sounds like a typical syndrome of a brand new company, 1st gen product. 
Hopefully it can be fixed with a firmware update but since they don't have a proprietary app I'm not sure how's that going to be implemented.


----------



## erockg

Tommy C said:


> Sounds like a typical syndrome of a brand new company, 1st gen product.
> Hopefully it can be fixed with a firmware update but since they don't have a proprietary app I'm not sure how's that going to be implemented.


All the above said, I'm using mine now and not having any issues.  I actually like them and the mic for calls is very very good.  Better than my M&D MW08 Sports which seem to have gone south after the firmware update - they're unusable on calls now.  The Grell fit fantastic, they're incredibly lightweight.  I'd say the soundstage is wide and smooth.  The bass definitely has decent punch.  I ran the SoundID tests and have a good mix going that uploaded to the buds no problem.  Touch controls can be annoying, i.e. testy on the left bud but I think I just have to learn where to exactly tap.  The ANC is okay.  About comparable to the MW08 Sport, maybe a tad bit better.  It's def not awful.  I put on a pair of Symbio foam tips and that helps with the seal and passive isolation which in turn helped the ANC.  I'll use them most of today and try to see how long I get.  I'm not close to a point where I'm annoyed and want to return them.  That said, it could blow up for me like a few others.  Fingers crossed that doesn't happen.


----------



## tinyman392

erockg said:


> All the above said, I'm using mine now and not having any issues.  I actually like them and the mic for calls is very very good.  Better than my M&D MW08 Sports which seem to have gone south after the firmware update - they're unusable on calls now.  The Grell fit fantastic, they're incredibly lightweight.  I'd say the soundstage is wide and smooth.  The bass definitely has decent punch.  I ran the SoundID tests and have a good mix going that uploaded to the buds no problem.  Touch controls can be annoying, i.e. testy on the left bud but I think I just have to learn where to exactly tap.  The ANC is okay.  About comparable to the MW08 Sport, maybe a tad bit better.  It's def not awful.  I put on a pair of Symbio foam tips and that helps with the seal and passive isolation which in turn helped the ANC.  I'll use them most of today and try to see how long I get.  I'm not close to a point where I'm annoyed and want to return them.  That said, it could blow up for me like a few others.  Fingers crossed that doesn't happen.


I keep having to double tap the left side to "wake" it up which can get annoying.  The right side has rarely given me issues.  My use case for them really hasn't been phone calls, but they sound very good.  The bass has some beautiful fluidity to it.  I have no comfort issues either, the housings conform to my ears pretty well.  I haven't used the SoundID stuff, I've never really been a fan of how it works (for example I prefer to EQ my headphones live while my music is playing).


----------



## erockg

tinyman392 said:


> I keep having to double tap the left side to "wake" it up which can get annoying.  The right side has rarely given me issues.  My use case for them really hasn't been phone calls, but they sound very good.  The bass has some beautiful fluidity to it.  I have no comfort issues either, the housings conform to my ears pretty well.  I haven't used the SoundID stuff, I've never really been a fan of how it works (for example I prefer to EQ my headphones live while my music is playing).


Yeah, I'm not usually one to use the SoundID tech but surprisingly liking what it did.  Same here with the right bud a few times.  Also, seems certain tips are too big and the case won't close or the buds won't seat well.  Few after market tips actually fit in the case better than some of the stock tips!


----------



## erockg

For those interested, Amazon US has the Fiio UTWS5 in stock for 12/24 delivery.  Going to take a shot with the 2 Pin version since I already have the Shure TW2.
​


----------



## helmutcheese

In UK (have a US account also) but can you link to them please it as it does not show up even via Google and that is not the first time.


----------



## erockg

helmutcheese said:


> In UK but can you link to them please it as it does not show up even via Google and that is not the first time.


Sure.  Here you go: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B09JBG17T9/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&th=1


----------



## helmutcheese

Do you not see the same as I get (going by your comment on 12/24 delivery)?

*"Currently unavailable.
We don't know when or if this item will be back in stock."*


----------



## xSDMx

It's going in and out of stock for me. I got an order in. I'm an absolute glutton for pain, apparently. I hope the pairing process and stability have been improved vs. the UTWS3. Still not happy you have to use the case for pairing mode, but whatever. I miss using my SE846s.


----------



## erockg

helmutcheese said:


> Do you not see the same as I get (going by your comment on 12/24 delivery)?
> 
> *"Currently unavailable.
> We don't know when or if this item will be back in stock."*


Because you're in the UK, maybe it is IP sniffing your location.  I don't know.  See screenshot.


----------



## helmutcheese (Dec 17, 2021)

I believed you and tried NordVPN but above user is seeing same not a biggie and doubt I want these due to battery life and a few other aspects like the Codecs so far if the others no added later as they said they may do.


----------



## erockg

helmutcheese said:


> I believed you and tried NordVPN but above user is seeing same not a biggie and doubt I want these due to battery life and a few other aspects like the Codecs so far if the others no added alter as they said they may do.


Still showing both versions in stock on my end.  Bummer.


----------



## erockg

xSDMx said:


> It's going in and out of stock for me. I got an order in. I'm an absolute glutton for pain, apparently. I hope the pairing process and stability have been improved vs. the UTWS3. Still not happy you have to use the case for pairing mode, but whatever. I miss using my SE846s.


I can't find info that they have transparency mode, but would be great if they did.


----------



## clerkpalmer

Grabbed the Beats Pro to work with my Apple Ecosystem.  Not a bad product.  I like the fit.  The sound is very balanced - APP like.  The spatial audio part is really special.  If Apple ever decides to do a hi end headphone (no the APM is not it), there may be something there.  These are definitely passable for music.  Good product with the typical Apple polish.  I don't see why anyone would buy the APP unless the form factor is preferable.


----------



## helmutcheese (Dec 17, 2021)

It was my UK address, If I change to the US address in my account they are both in stock.


----------



## erockg

clerkpalmer said:


> Grabbed the Beats Pro to work with my Apple Ecosystem.  Not a bad product.  I like the fit.  The sound is very balanced - APP like.  The spatial audio part is really special.  If Apple ever decides to do a hi end headphone (no the APM is not it), there may be something there.  These are definitely passable for music.  Good product with the typical Apple polish.  I don't see why anyone would buy the APP unless the form factor is preferable.


I actually love the BFP form factor better.  It's more like the old Earin M-2s which were awesome.  Hopefully Apple comes through with a major redesign of those APP.  Pipe dream or they'll just take a few more years, unless the rumors are true.  My ears must not be a great as most, but man, I truly love Spatial Audio with my APM.  They just sound sick.  I prefer them now over the Sennies, B&W and the like.  Clearly not the high end cans you're talking about, but they do well for that ol' Apple Eco and for music.  I just wish they didn't clamp so hard.  That's my only issue with them.  

Now that Apple has updated Macs etc. to SharePlay.  I'd love to try SharePlaying a movie in bed with my wife while both listening via Spatial Audio.  Tech keeps getting better!


----------



## erockg

xSDMx said:


> I suspect there might be more at play re: Grell battery life. I don't have my set anymore, but during my first usage session I noticed very fast battery drain that I couldn't reproduce the next day. Possibly the battery controller learning or a quirk of the QCC5141 implementation.


Mine are at 79% after using them for over 2 hours.  ANC on.


----------



## clerkpalmer

erockg said:


> I actually love the BFP form factor better.  It's more like the old Earin M-2s which were awesome.  Hopefully Apple comes through with a major redesign of those APP.  Pipe dream or they'll just take a few more years, unless the rumors are true.  My ears must not be a great as most, but man, I truly love Spatial Audio with my APM.  They just sound sick.  I prefer them now over the Sennies, B&W and the like.  Clearly not the high end cans you're talking about, but they do well for that ol' Apple Eco and for music.  I just wish they didn't clamp so hard.  That's my only issue with them.
> 
> Now that Apple has updated Macs etc. to SharePlay.  I'd love to try SharePlaying a movie in bed with my wife while both listening via Spatial Audio.  Tech keeps getting better!


Yeah I may give the APM another try now that I’m back to Apple. Although that Oppo Find N foldable looks pretty sick … I’m a believer in then spatial audio now. Much better than with the APP.


----------



## erockg

clerkpalmer said:


> Yeah I may give the APM another try now that I’m back to Apple. Although that Oppo Find N foldable looks pretty sick … I’m a believer in then spatial audio now. Much better than with the APP.


Totally agree.  The deals on the APM are great.  Think I got mine for $429.  I'm not familiar with the Oppo.  Don't temp me!


----------



## Tommy C (Dec 17, 2021)

xSDMx said:


> It's going in and out of stock for me. I got an order in. I'm an absolute glutton for pain, apparently. I hope the pairing process and stability have been improved vs. the UTWS3. Still not happy you have to use the case for pairing mode, but whatever. I miss using my SE846s.



Since you're planning to pair them with the SE846 you may want to also consider the TW2 adapters.
I've been using them with the stock SE215 Special Edition and very happy so far with the sound quality and features.
Also used them for several calls and no issues there.
Been wearing them for almost 6 hrs now and starting to feel like my ears can use a break.
The downside, the case is just huge but I get very solid battery life so shouldn't be too much of an issue to leave the case at home if l really wanted to go lean.


----------



## clerkpalmer

erockg said:


> Totally agree.  The deals on the APM are great.  Think I got mine for $429.  I'm not familiar with the Oppo.  Don't temp me!


It’s tempting but being on iOS just makes everything better. Just wish Apple would innovate their phones. Boring.


----------



## Ceeluh7

erockg said:


> For those interested, Amazon US has the Fiio UTWS5 in stock for 12/24 delivery.  Going to take a shot with the 2 Pin version since I already have the Shure TW2.
> ​


Jumping on this


----------



## erockg

clerkpalmer said:


> It’s tempting but being on iOS just makes everything better. Just wish Apple would innovate their phones. Boring.


I'm an Apple junkie, drank the Kool Aid years ago.  I'm so deep in the ecosystem, I prefer their phones.  But I do think they're slow to get there half the time.  Being able to listen to tunes and then move within all my devices for work is just so smooth over here.  That said, I'm very much over WFH life.


----------



## clerkpalmer

erockg said:


> I'm an Apple junkie, drank the Kool Aid years ago.  I'm so deep in the ecosystem, I prefer their phones.  But I do think they're slow to get there half the time.  Being able to listen to tunes and then move within all my devices for work is just so smooth over here.  That said, I'm very much over WFH life.


I agree. Off topic but every time i move to Android I realize despite coming a long way it’s still a long way away. I have a Fold 3 collecting dust currently.


----------



## erockg

clerkpalmer said:


> I agree. Off topic but every time i move to Android I realize despite coming a long way it’s still a long way away. I have a Fold 3 collecting dust currently.


For sure.  I used to jailbreak my iPhones for that reason.  I got tired of Android always cannibalizing it's OS on so many devices.  That said, who knows, I may go there again.


----------



## Ceeluh7

erockg said:


> For those interested, Amazon US has the Fiio UTWS5 in stock for 12/24 delivery.  Going to take a shot with the 2 Pin version since I already have the Shure TW2.
> ​


Man I'm torn, if I go utws5 I will def get the 2 pin as I have way more 2 pin than mmcx... However I'm looking at the iFi go blu as well and it just looks awesome. I have the Qudelix 5k and the BTR5 though and not sure if it is much of an upgrade, I kinda like the form factor of the lil guy. As far as utws5 I have both versions of the Utws3... Ugh. I do like that the utws5 has the AK dac now along with the Amp which will likely be much better than the Utws3, more refined, a bit better output power as well. Anyways I greatly appreciate you posting the availability, I checked yesterday and it said it would get here around the 29th. Thanks man


----------



## jant71 (Dec 17, 2021)

Quick strike with this as the 9 Pro is just really getting going.
https://www.kztws.com/products/kz-az10




Of course only gonna be two pin and only the C variant so far.


We got another ZE3000 impression. Sounds good but still no comparisons to anything.
https://www.phileweb.com/review/article/202112/17/4583.html


----------



## turbobb

helmutcheese said:


> I ideally fully cycle my buds a few times (use till each side turns off not partially charge) to try condition them for a hopefully longer life.


This may have been required with non-Lithium batteries back in the days but every TWS now is Lithium based and this is actually not advisable. 

Here's a relevant excerpt from BU (source: https://batteryuniversity.com/article/bu-808-how-to-prolong-lithium-based-batteries)

"Similar to a mechanical device that wears out faster with heavy use, the depth of discharge (DoD) determines the cycle count of the battery. The smaller the discharge (low DoD), the longer the battery will last. If at all possible, avoid full discharges and charge the battery more often between uses. Partial discharge on Li-ion is fine. There is no memory and the battery does not need periodic full discharge cycles to prolong life. The exception may be a periodic calibration of the fuel gauge on a smart battery or intelligent device(See BU-603: How to Calibrate a “Smart” Battery)"

Also check out the discharge curves in Figure 1, if there was a benefit from cycling, you would see an initial uptick in the capacity but all curves show an immediate decrease.

The flip side of this is that Lithium batteries are also happiest when not charged fully to 100% with some manufacturers opting to charge only to 80-90% but it's highly unlikely that total longevity is the focus with TWS given battery life (capacity) is a key bragging right in the specs.


----------



## helmutcheese (Dec 17, 2021)

Nickel–metal hydride also did not suffer from the memory issue so it is nothing new but I charge full the first few times as I said to condition the battery, find bad cells and let the controller/software calibrate

My Logitech Mouse Pad does not charge my mouse to 100% but keeps it between 85% and 95% but no way I am only partially changing my TWS as most have short enough battery life as it is.

Also my Moto Z2 Force Turbo Power Mod keeps my phone at 80% pall the time but it does state to calibrate the phones battery every now and then do a hard reboot  (press and hold the power button till phone starts to reboot) and put on charge till 100% and leave a further 2 hours.


----------



## jant71 (Dec 17, 2021)

Turbob is correct. NiMH is different and can be conditioned(every 10 or so cycles) and are the type that should be fully charged and discharged. Lithium should not be fully charged or discharged or degradation will occur or perhaps fire/explosion as we have seen more recently. Those mishaps/literal meltdowns have all been Lithium and after NiMH which is safer. Like this one...
https://www.cpsc.gov/Recalls/2021/A...d-with-Wireless-Headphones-Due-to-Fire-Hazard


----------



## helmutcheese

It is not practical and people will charge to 100%.

So specs should say battery 8 hours @ 50% volume AAC Codec (which never happens as it is less) but please do not fully charge our earbuds as there is a fire risk so only charge to 80% and get less than 8 hours playback (rhetorical).


----------



## xSDMx

jant71 said:


> Quick strike with this as the 9 Pro is just really getting going.
> https://www.kztws.com/products/kz-az10
> 
> Of course only gonna be two pin and only the C variant so far.
> ...


Ooo, I like the physical buttons!


----------



## xSDMx

Tommy C said:


> Since you're plaining to pair them with the SE846 you may want to also consider the TW2 adapters.
> I've been using them with the stock SE215 Special Edition and very happy so far with the sound quality and features.
> Also used them for several calls and no issues there.
> Been wearing them for almost 6 hrs now and starting to feel like my ears can use a break.
> The downside, the case is just huge but I get very solid battery life so shouldn't be too much of an issue to leave the case at home if l really wanted to go lean.


Recommendation much appreciated. I'd love to get the TW2, everything I hear about SQ, feature set, etc. has been so positive after the revision. It may seem silly, but my hard line for TWS is a small form factor case and wireless Qi charging. It's minor in the scheme of things, but that's my line in the sand. Maximum convenience and portability.


----------



## chinmie

jant71 said:


> Quick strike with this as the 9 Pro is just really getting going.
> https://www.kztws.com/products/kz-az10
> 
> Of course only gonna be two pin and only the C variant so far.
> ...



So the differences between this and the AZ09 pro are the addition of spatial mode, and removing aptx support.. I'd stick to the AZ09 pro just for the colour choice alone


----------



## Tommy C (Dec 17, 2021)

xSDMx said:


> Recommendation much appreciated. I'd love to get the TW2, everything I hear about SQ, feature set, etc. has been so positive after the revision. It may seem silly, but my hard line for TWS is a small form factor case and wireless Qi charging. It's minor in the scheme of things, but that's my line in the sand. Maximum convenience and portability.



Yeah, the Shure TW2 case is huge. No way to sugarcoat it.
Personally, I would consider bringing it along only if I carry a backpack, work bag or wearing a winter jacket.
It's definitely a niche product.


----------



## BooleanBones

Tommy C said:


> Yeah, the Shure TW2 case is huge. No way to sugarcoat it.
> Personally, I would consider bringing it along only if I carry a backpack, work bag or wearing a winter jacket.
> It's definitely a niche product.


cargo pants maybe?


----------



## jant71

chinmie said:


> So the differences between this and the AZ09 pro are the addition of spatial mode, and removing aptx support.. I'd stick to the AZ09 pro just for the colour choice alone


The color, the aptX and the more comfortable arms. Really think this is for the gamers and watching YouTube. Doesn't seem a replacement or upgrade.


----------



## Ceeluh7

So the utws5 is now shipping and arriving by the 20th.....they just keep moving the date up? Anyways, I couldn't help myself... Cmon December 20th


----------



## erockg

BooleanBones said:


> cargo pants maybe?


I still vote for front (center) pocket.


----------



## erockg

Ceeluh7 said:


> So the utws5 is now shipping and arriving by the 20th.....they just keep moving the date up? Anyways, I couldn't help myself... Cmon December 20th


Really — ?  Nice!


----------



## erockg

Tommy C said:


> Yeah, the Shure TW2 case is huge. No way to sugarcoat it.
> Personally, I would consider bringing it along only if I carry a backpack, work bag or wearing a winter jacket.
> It's definitely a niche product.


I’ve been just turning mine off and carrying them around without the case at times. Incredibly low profile and the battery life is pretty damn long. But I can imagine some would be scared of damaging them.


----------



## Tommy C

BooleanBones said:


> cargo pants maybe?


Or a man purse


----------



## erockg

Tommy C said:


> Or a man purse


Um, that would be called a Murse!  *rimshot


----------



## Tommy C

erockg said:


> I’ve been just turning mine off and carrying them around without the case at times. Incredibly low profile and the battery life is pretty damn long. But I can imagine some would be scared of damaging them.



Yeah, surprisingly they are much less awkward than I anticipated based on the photos online. 

Let's see how long I can keep them without the itch to get something new because as a pure TWS device the sound is up there. 
Probably not like the B&O EQ and such but as a product or they work awesome and happen to me by ideal sound signature so the option to use it with other IEM is gravy.


----------



## chinmie

Tommy C said:


> Or a man purse


excuse me, "TACTICAL" man purse is the more correct term


----------



## darveniza

Has anyone tried the Fender Tour TWS???.


----------



## Tommy C

darveniza said:


> Has anyone tried the Fender Tour TWS???.



I looked at them awhile back and there is very little info available. 
In general there isn't much love for Fender around here on Head-Fi for a few years now.


----------



## erockg

chinmie said:


> excuse me, "TACTICAL" man purse is the more correct term


Oh, this thing has been on my Amazon wish list for ages.


----------



## erockg

darveniza said:


> Has anyone tried the Fender Tour TWS???.





Tommy C said:


> I looked at them awhile back and there is very little info available.
> In general there isn't much love for Fender around here on Head-Fi for a few years now.


I ALMOST pulled the trigger a while back but something I read which I can't recall kept me at bay.


----------



## erockg

Tommy C said:


> Yeah, surprisingly they are much less awkward than I anticipated based on the photos online.
> 
> Let's see how long I can keep them without the itch to get something new because as a pure TWS device the sound is up there.
> Probably not like the B&O EQ and such but as a product or they work awesome and happen to me by ideal sound signature so the option to use it with other IEM is gravy.


I've been mostly using my Fokus and the new Grell buds this week.  My Shure haven't been getting enough love for a few days.


----------



## Tommy C

erockg said:


> I've been mostly using my Fokus and the new Grell buds this week.  My Shure haven't been getting enough love for a few days.



What do you think about the Grell? 
I'm curious about the Fokus but maybe if and when they go on sale.


----------



## Phaethon

I got the Shure TW2 along  with a set of the Aonic 5 iems. I couldn’t get enthusiastic about what I was hearing. So I kept the relatively expensive Aonic 5s and returned the TW2s, figuring I could enjoy the iems once I figured out some ways around the barricades Apple puts around our experience of quality sound. So got my Qudelic, my Apple CCK, and the stray cables to open the music up! I don’t know how to experience this music on the go, as it is truly a dongle/cable orgy. 

Bottom line: I did all this and I just don’t like the sound signature on the Aonic 5s. D’oh!


----------



## erockg

Tommy C said:


> What do you think about the Grell?
> I'm curious about the Fokus but maybe if and when they go on sale.


So far so good.  Clarity and soundstage is great.  After a brief hiccup, I was able to update them with the SoundID app and EQ them a bit.  Not that it’s needed.   They sound great out of the box.  ANC is good with home hum noises but nothing to write home about.  I really like the fit and weight.  Case is a tank with wireless charging.  Phone calls are flawless with them on my end.  Some are saying they have issues with them but so far I’m having a good run.


----------



## voicemaster (Dec 18, 2021)

Got my UTWS5 today and this thing really delivers. Connection is solid, sound quality is the best from other bluetooth earhook I've tried so far and has plenty of power and volume. Paired up my Timeless with UTWS5 and it paired up really well imho. I am thinking of getting the .78mm version since UTWS5 now available on amazon (prime too).


TRN BT30 + Variations, Fiio UTWS5 + 7Hz Timeless, KZ AZ09 pro + KATO.


----------



## TK33

erockg said:


> I’ve been just turning mine off and carrying them around without the case at times. Incredibly low profile and the battery life is pretty damn long. But I can imagine some would be scared of damaging them.


The way I see it, it's really no different than carrying around that square case for the SE846 (which I guess I was used to doing and didn't mind before I started carrying multiple sets of TWS with me) but I do carry a backpack and sometimes find myself just throwing them in a pocket these days.


----------



## dweaver

AZ60 back on sale at London Drugs in Canada. $199 Canadian. I am still loving my pair.


----------



## quick1 (Dec 18, 2021)

clerkpalmer said:


> I’m easing my way back in. Using stock mediums. Fit pretty well. Definitely leaps and bounds better than the Falcon. GD they sound sweet!  I’m back to an iPhone and even AAC is killer. I might try the Sednas for giggles. I’m glad someone else is with me on this. If only they had ANC…



I don't know how the hell I quoted that post??? Maybe it had something to do with reading over 50 pages in a short time to catch back up.
I thought I was quoting the @erockg post about listening to Badlands and being blown away by Jake E Lee. He's the reason I purchased that album. I remember thinking the talent is there, they just need a little better material, then quick as that they were gone. 

Surely you can't be just discovering that album. I was cranking some of that when it first came out, seems so tame now.


----------



## Ceeluh7 (Dec 18, 2021)

Tommy C said:


> I looked at them awhile back and there is very little info available.
> In general there isn't much love for Fender around here on Head-Fi for a few years now.


So the fender tws have the exact same casing as the Palovue Isound tws. Exactly. We all know that this doesn't mean that the internals are the same but I tried the palovue and it SUUUUUCKED! They look okay but just not at all cohesive and just tonally odd. Same shell, same case...


----------



## Caipirina

clerkpalmer said:


> Grabbed the Beats Pro to work with my Apple Ecosystem.  Not a bad product.  I like the fit.  The sound is very balanced - APP like.  The spatial audio part is really special.  If Apple ever decides to do a hi end headphone (no the APM is not it), there may be something there.  These are definitely passable for music.  Good product with the typical Apple polish.  I don't see why anyone would buy the APP unless the form factor is preferable.


maybe Beats Pro still not available in the region  I can;t believe they don;t get them out here (in Japan) before xmas (last I heard was some time in January) ... 
Those might be the last TWS I will buy for a long time    .. at least that's what I keep telling myself


----------



## _mouse_

Cannot understand if exist a tws with a true aptx hd support


----------



## concordus (Dec 18, 2021)

Was wondering if I am the only one experiencing discomfort with BT earphones.

I have tried quite few of them (lot's JBLs TWS and headphones, Jabra TWS and headphones, Sony TWS and headphones) and especially TWS with BT 5 or higher are hurting my ears after not big listening sessions.

Same with on ear headphones but only on side where wireless transmitters are placed.

Nothing like that with wired headphones and smaller effect with older versions of BT (like 4).

Anyone else experiencing same things? I am now quite sensitive to that and basically am staying away from wireless headphones. Not sure would that be the same with dedicated 2.4Ghz transmitters like gaming headsets (will have to test as well).

Seems to me that this might be due to wireless transmission of signals, because it is only with wireless that I get pain in ears.

Am I the only one? Anyone else experiencing same things?

I am exploring BT technology for this reason and looking for some clues in scientific papers.


----------



## Ceeluh7

_mouse_ said:


> Cannot understand if exist a tws with a true aptx hd support


No there is not, at least not that I am aware of and I feel like I've seen most that is out there. I haven't seen actual aptx-hd and truthfully the only thing I have seen is on Bluetooth adapters with the codec at this point


----------



## Ceeluh7

concordus said:


> Was wondering if I am the only one experiencing discomfort with BT earphones.
> 
> I have tried quite few of them (lot's JBLs TWS and headphones, Jabra TWS and headphones, Sony TWS and headphones) and especially TWS with BT 5 or higher are hurting my ears after not big listening sessions.
> 
> ...


What kind of pain?


----------



## _mouse_ (Dec 18, 2021)

Ceeluh7 said:


> No there is not, at least not that I am aware of and I feel like I've seen most that is out there. I haven't seen actual aptx-hd and truthfully the only thing I have seen is on Bluetooth adapters with the codec at this point


Thanks I was tempted for the az60 but, atm, I may use my low budget fiil t1 pro for calls and easy listen


----------



## Tommy C (Dec 18, 2021)

concordus said:


> Was wondering if I am the only one experiencing discomfort with BT earphones.
> 
> I have tried quite few of them (lot's JBLs TWS and headphones, Jabra TWS and headphones, Sony TWS and headphones) and especially TWS with BT 5 or higher are hurting my ears after not big listening sessions.
> 
> ...


You mean pain in the concha?
My first set of TWS was an old Jabra was giving me a hard time for the first 2 weeks but I got used to it eventually and over the years kind of learned what works best for my ears with very little discomfort or pain.
You can always try adapters to use with your IEM.
I’m using the Shure TW2 nowadays and like them a lot. It might be worth a shot as they are decently priced.


----------



## concordus

Ceeluh7 said:


> What kind of pain?



Deep in ear. Like pain in nerves of ear system, not mechanical pain on outside of ear, if that was the case then wired headphones would achieve same result but they don't. It is something to do with Bluetooth wireless technology. Sure I will figure out what it is in frequencies and communication protocols that harms ears.



Tommy C said:


> You mean pain in the concha?
> My first set of TWS that wand an old Jabra was giving me a hard time for the first 2 weeks but I got used to it eventually and over the ears kind of learns what works best for my ears with very little discomfort or pain.
> You can always try adapters to use with your IEM.
> I’m using the Shure TW2 nowadays and like them a lot. It might be worth a shot as they are decently priced.



Its not physical outer ear thing. It is inner nerve system of ear.


----------



## jant71

Good last minute gift/stocking stuffer???


----------



## Aevum (Dec 18, 2021)

just got the sonys...

my day is ruined my disappointment is immeasurable.

sound quality is weird, LDAC keeps cutting out having the phone in my pocket (with the same phone i can go to the bathroom with the BTR5 on me  leaving the phone in my room using LDAC), went to the shopping center and had to turn off dynamic sound control because it kept going to ambient due to it detecting other people talking.

its not that they dont sound as good as the N400 i had before, that i knew, what i didnt know is that it would be trading blows with a ZEX on a AZ09 Pro...

Put them on alzas, now they sound a bit better, the default tips are horrible, its like they tried to copy complys and got EVERYTHING wrong.


----------



## BooleanBones

Aevum said:


> Put them on alzas, now they sound a bit better, the default tips are horrible, its like they tried to copy complys and got EVERYTHING wrong.


Totally agree on those tips. I almost sent my set back when I heard them initially. Swapped tips and it was night and day difference.


----------



## dweaver

Aevum said:


> sound quality is weird, LDAC keeps cutting out having the phone in my pocket (with the same phone i can go to the bathroom with the BTR5 on me  leaving the phone in my room using LDAC), went to the shopping center and had to turn off dynamic sound control because it kept going to ambient due to it detecting other people talking.


LDAC is definitely tricky, I find I have to use 660 at most, 990 is not very stable.  If you look back through the thread several people give strategies on getting the most out LDAC. I think my smart watch just adds to much strain to the BT stack in my case.


----------



## Caipirina

concordus said:


> Was wondering if I am the only one experiencing discomfort with BT earphones.
> 
> .


Lighter wallet and occasionally buyer’s remorse … can be quite painful …


----------



## Tommy C

Phaethon said:


> I got the Shure TW2 along  with a set of the Aonic 5 iems. I couldn’t get enthusiastic about what I was hearing. So I kept the relatively expensive Aonic 5s and returned the TW2s, figuring I could enjoy the iems once I figured out some ways around the barricades Apple puts around our experience of quality sound. So got my Qudelic, my Apple CCK, and the stray cables to open the music up! I don’t know how to experience this music on the go, as it is truly a dongle/cable orgy.
> 
> Bottom line: I did all this and I just don’t like the sound signature on the Aonic 5s. D’oh!



Personally, I think the TW2 is a very nice product but the whole system is pretty unique and may not be as a main TWS set.
With the SE 215 Special Edition I like what I hear. It may not be a super audiophile sound but it's better than most of the stuff that I currently own or heard and at $165 the price was right too.


----------



## dweaver (Dec 18, 2021)

I need to win the lottery... 

I keep wanting to buy the WF-1000XM4. My reason is not because I think my AZ60 sound bad. Nope, I just want to satisfy my curiosity of whether the Sony's sound as good or better. But spending $400 to satisfy that itch is just crazy. 

Question, for those who own the Sony, can you use LDAC plus EQ in the app? I always hated the limitation of stock sound when using LDAC on older Sony BT headphones. I ask because I know the bass is going to be over cooked and the treble to polite for my liking.

Still likely going to wait until the XM4 starts to go in sale for $200 or around that price. But would like to know I can use the best codec plus shape the sound before I even consider them.


----------



## Canabuc

dweaver said:


> AZ60 back on sale at London Drugs in Canada. $199 Canadian. I am still loving my pair.


They really are amazing. With LDAC they really do rival weird for me. But with benefit of ANC. And if I don't mind a slight down grade I sound to have multipoint when needed.


----------



## Canabuc

dweaver said:


> LDAC is definitely tricky, I find I have to use 660 at most, 990 is not very stable.  If you look back through the thread several people give strategies on getting the most out LDAC. I think my smart watch just adds to much strain to the BT stack in my case.


Turning off location services on my phone while listening fixes LDAC 990 stuttering for me.


----------



## dweaver (Dec 18, 2021)

Tried that but still had stuttering on mine. Think its my smart watch. Will test.

I agree about sound quality if the AZ60 and multipoint works very well too.

Edit: turning off my watch didn't help. 660 is good enough for me I guess... Lol


----------



## Canabuc

dweaver said:


> Tried that but still had stuttering on mine. Think its my smart watch. Will test.
> 
> I agree about sound quality if the AZ60 and multipoint works very well too.


That's too bad . I have handcuff watch 4 connected as well. One time or kept stuttering but ticking off and on wifi fixed it.


----------



## assassin10000

dweaver said:


> I need to win the lottery...
> 
> I keep wanting to buy the WF-1000XM4. My reason is not because I think my AZ60 sound bad. Nope, I just want to satisfy my curiosity of whether the Sony's sound as good or better. But spending $400 to satisfy that itch is just crazy.



Ooof. Isn't that like 99% of head-fi?



dweaver said:


> Question, for those who own the Sony, can you use LDAC plus EQ in the app? I always hated the limitation of stock sound when using LDAC on older Sony BT headphones. I ask because I know the bass is going to be over cooked and the treble to polite for my liking.
> 
> Still likely going to wait until the XM4 starts to go in sale for $200 or around that price. But would like to know I can use the best codec plus shape the sound before I even consider them.



EQ still works with LDAC.


----------



## dweaver

Thanks @assassin10000 lol I was going say or quit Head-fi in my first sentence. .

So when I try them, at least I can EQ them to taste while using LDAC.

For now the AZ60 really do sound good.


----------



## Tommy C

dweaver said:


> I need to win the lottery...
> 
> I keep wanting to buy the WF-1000XM4. My reason is not because I think my AZ60 sound bad. Nope, I just want to satisfy my curiosity of whether the Sony's sound as good or better. But spending $400 to satisfy that itch is just crazy.
> 
> ...


You know, Bay Bloor Radio in Toronto has a super cool setup with listening stations where you can test all their headphones, IEMs and TWS. It's an awesome place, you know if you ever want to get that itch out of the system lol 
Or the Amazon route. They will take it back if you choose they are not for you, but you know that.


----------



## dweaver

Unfortunately I live in Calgary and we have NOTHING like that here...  it would be awesome if we did.


----------



## zeinharis

dweaver said:


> I need to win the lottery...
> 
> I keep wanting to buy the WF-1000XM4. My reason is not because I think my AZ60 sound bad. Nope, I just want to satisfy my curiosity of whether the Sony's sound as good or better. But spending $400 to satisfy that itch is just crazy.
> 
> ...



Yes it does work, but the DSEE doesn't work if you choose LDAC @990.


----------



## voicemaster

_mouse_ said:


> Cannot understand if exist a tws with a true aptx hd support


I don't think any TWS will be going with AptX HD soon as the new AptX adaptive will be the way to go. Sadly tho, there are like ZERO bluetooth USB dongle that has AptX adaptive yet.


----------



## dj24

dweaver said:


> I need to win the lottery...
> 
> I keep wanting to buy the WF-1000XM4. My reason is not because I think my AZ60 sound bad. Nope, I just want to satisfy my curiosity of whether the Sony's sound as good or better. But spending $400 to satisfy that itch is just crazy.
> 
> ...


https://www.ebay.com/itm/2652301769...customid=4636abfc607811ec9b6bb2d9063b0fb60INT


----------



## darveniza

Finally received my Grell TWS1. Bit bummed out with the sensitivity disparity for the sensor between Left and Right . Play and Pause is just a pain to trigger, while Ambient/ANC work with no issue


----------



## dweaver

Thanks for that link, might have to take advantage of that . Right price for sure. 

Will be next year though after Christmas, no budget at the moment


----------



## dweaver

Decided to see if I could get my WI-1000X to charge. Switched to a standard USB charger for single devices and they actually charged properly. This model has LDAC and is a hybrid configuration. Not the greatest sound but I also didn't know how to use LDAC better the last time I tried these. Will be interesting to see how they sound with better LDAC.


----------



## Phaethon

Tommy C said:


> Personally, I think the TW2 is a very nice product but the whole system is pretty unique and may not be as a main TWS set.
> With the SE 215 Special Edition I like what I hear. It may not be a super audiophile sound but it's better than most of the stuff that I currently own or heard and at $165 the price was right too.


I’m going to have the TW2 back tomorrow from Amazon and I’ve now got some iems that I like and I’ll bet my experience is similar to yours. Looking forward to trying them again. I’ve been doing the TWS for a while now but I knew better SQ was possible. I started picking up some iems and loved the sound but the wires and cables aren’t appropriate or comfortable for work or driving there. I’m hoping the Bluetooth adapters will bridge the TWS/IEM gap.


----------



## dweaver

The WI-1000X is one of those Sony products that only let's you use LDAC in it default signature. Fortunately is sounds pretty good in stock sound and I use Neutron which has a 10 band EQ that is extremely adjustable with great detail. So tweaked the mid bass down a hair and the upper mids and treble up a bit and these sound damn good. Might have to use these more often. Not as convenient as TWS but also very good sounding with decent basic ANC and the hybrid configuration was back when Sony was not quite so dark sounding.


----------



## scubaphish

Received my N400 yesterday. First impressions, keeping in mind my daily driver is Gemini and secondary is APP; maybe some unfair comparisons, not sure. 

Sound, first of all, is great. Out of box eq wasn’t immediately palatable my ears, too mid-forward for my tastes. Created a modified “U” eq and really enjoying them now. Been trying a few different eq, as well as flat, but so far liking adding in some bass and treble. 
Speaking of the eq, I don’t know if I’ve seen a graphical eq with floating frequency points (as opposed to fixed frequency bands); very cool. I wonder how many points you could add. 

I do find myself using higher volume than my Gemini. Sound not as detailed as the Gemini either; cymbals and snare are my usual gauge. But there is very nice instrument separation and tonality. I think as clean as APP, but with stronger and adjustable bass.  

ANC seems ok. Seems to drown out fan/air purifier noise pretty well. Stopping other sounds like snapping, which tends to be my test these days, is less effective. Interested how that will play out on the subways. 

Fit it good but not great (so far). I’m new to the world of fins and having trouble finding right size without having fins feel like they’re stretching my earlobes out. Not falling out without fins, but not as secure as they could be either.  

I’m having hit and miss luck with controls but not deal breaker.  Especially since I’m still figuring them out, like where exactly the touch pad is. Not as sensitive as Gemini and not sure that’s a bad thing, eg I can adjust buds without pausing music. But I have been able to use the slide feature to get talk through enabled. Maybe not always on first try but still seems to work. 

I’m happy to spend my Sunday morning playing with fit and eq. I think I’m digging these; can definitely see myself using them every day. And for $50, pretty sweet.


----------



## erockg

Tommy C said:


> Personally, I think the TW2 is a very nice product but the whole system is pretty unique and may not be as a main TWS set.
> With the SE 215 Special Edition I like what I hear. It may not be a super audiophile sound but it's better than most of the stuff that I currently own or heard and at $165 the price was right too.


I've read online that others were disappointed by the newer Aonic 5.  Either way, I agree with you whole-heartedly here.  They are in a different class.  But hey, I guess different strokes for different folks.  I hear things with my TW2/SE846 setup that I can't hear in most TWS.  Love them.


----------



## erockg

scubaphish said:


> Received my N400 yesterday. First impressions, keeping in mind my daily driver is Gemini and secondary is APP; maybe some unfair comparisons, not sure.
> 
> Sound, first of all, is great. Out of box eq wasn’t immediately palatable my ears, too mid-forward for my tastes. Created a modified “U” eq and really enjoying them now. Been trying a few different eq, as well as flat, but so far liking adding in some bass and treble.
> Speaking of the eq, I don’t know if I’ve seen a graphical eq with floating frequency points (as opposed to fixed frequency bands); very cool. I wonder how many points you could add.
> ...


Yeah, I had them at $150 and returned them because of the controls, but then at $50, they become more forgivable.  I wound up taking the finds off and putting on different tips.  The new pair I have didn't have any control issues, oddly.  Or maybe like you say, I just learned the scheme a bit better.  I bought a bunch as holiday gifts and mailed them out.  They're going to folks who know nothing other than old Airpods.  Should shock their system a bit -- I HOPE!


----------



## scubaphish

erockg said:


> Yeah, I had them at $150 and returned them because of the controls, but then at $50, they become more forgivable.  I wound up taking the finds off and putting on different tips.  The new pair I have didn't have any control issues, oddly.  Or maybe like you say, I just learned the scheme a bit better.  I bought a bunch as holiday gifts and mailed them out.  They're going to folks who know nothing other than old Airpods.  Should shock their system a bit -- I HOPE!


The buds did update to v4.1 as soon as I got them, so maybe they fixed some bugs. I forgot to mention that I’m finding the app works well, too. More times than not after leaving app, it’s still connected when I go back to it. When it’s not, it takes about 4 seconds to reconnect. Any longer and I know I have to kill the app, but don’t think that’s happened much. I’m using an iPhone 13 pro so maybe extra ram is helping. 

I’m at lowest/no fins now. Going to give flat eq more time, too.


----------



## erockg

scubaphish said:


> The buds did update to v4.1 as soon as I got them, so maybe they fixed some bugs. I forgot to mention that I’m finding the app works well, too. More times than not after leaving app, it’s still connected when I go back to it. When it’s not, it takes about 4 seconds to reconnect. Any longer and I know I have to kill the app, but don’t think that’s happened much. I’m using an iPhone 13 pro so maybe extra ram is helping.
> 
> I’m at lowest/no fins now. Going to give flat eq more time, too.


Oh interesting.  Mine were already on 4.1.  I actually thought they'd need an update but they didn't.  Must be a newer batch or something.  Same here, the app is doing well. Calls are doing well too.


----------



## erockg

I don't know if anyone still had a pair of M&D MW08 Sport?  I really love their sound and revisited them on a Black Friday deal.  I had gotten rid of them because of a mic issue that kept presenting itself on the latest firmware update and low and behold... it's just happened again.  Awful.  Literally did a before an after.  The latest firmware update really messes up the mic for calls.  I contacted support and they're just sloooooooow.  Running it up the food chain.  Build quality and sound is top notch, even better with a BF deal, but if I can't use them for calls or Zooms... they're useless to me.  Hasta la vista, buds.


----------



## jibberish

I recently bought a JBL Club Pro set, as it was on sale for under $80 USD, and I thought I'd share the experience.  I am not very impressed for many reasons, but on top of that the left earbud is defective and will not charge. so it's going back regardless.

For the good - the fit is comfortable and secure (with SpinFit CP360 tips, more on that in a bit), the ANC and ambient modes are decent, and the EQ does allow you to make pretty notable changes to the sound signature. 

Otherwise though, the sound is mediocre, the controls scheme is poor, the stock tips were useless for me, and the charging case is terrible. It's one of those cases where no aftermarket tips will fit into the case while still mounted on the IEM, very narrow channel for the earpiece nozzle.  Additionally, it's rounded on the top and bottom, which prevents you from sitting it upright with the lid open when needed, it just falls over.  The controls just make beep noises and don't have any voice indication of what settings you've modified, nor does it tell you the battery charge level (it's a nice touch that I appreciate in some other sets).

In terms of sound, it starts from a very thin sounding Harman curve, which isn't offensive, but it sounds sterile and dull.  I used the EQ to add some mid bass, drop the upper midrange and then add some additional treble at 8k and 16k, which made it a bit more engaging sounding. It doesn't really matter much though, because the driver is pretty unremarkable in terms of detail retrieval, imaging/stage, etc.  

By comparison I find it vastly inferior to the Technics AZ70 in every way except for fit and passive isolation.  I wouldn't recommend the Club Pro at $80, let alone near the msrp of $200.


----------



## BobJS

dj24 said:


> https://www.ebay.com/itm/2652301769...customid=4636abfc607811ec9b6bb2d9063b0fb60INT



Ha.  You need to attend an Enablers Anonymous meeting.

But seriously, that's a great (and tempting) find.


----------



## dweaver

So using the WI-1000X last night was a bit enlightening. Since it has LDAC and a very competent Dynamic / BA driver hybrid configuration it is a very competitive IEM sound wise. It is also very much Sony in regards to that signature. Big bass, lush mids, and due to the BA crisp highs. I think it is leaps ahead of the WF-1000XM3 mainly because of LDAC and better stability (zero skip issues) as well as the added treble detail.

In comparison to the AZ60 it's more evenly matched though. The AZ60 is every bit as detailed but they offer vastly different yet compelling soundscapes.

I am not a sound engineer so this next part is just conjecture on my part.

I think the big difference between these headphones lies in the Accoustic Control Chamber on the AZ60. I think this chamber softens the bass while enhancing the spaciousness of the AZ60. The Sony in the other hand is much more direct giving it more punch and bass control but at the expense sound stage and bass texture.

I started with the WI-1000X and immediately noticed the bass tightness and an over all sense of detail seperation. 

I then switched to the AZ60 and my first impression was that were more open and dynamic sounding. But I also noticed the bloom in the bass and mix of sounds compared to the 1000X. 

When I switched back to the 1000X I immediately missed the spaciousness but very quickly found myself enjoying the tighter bass and the cleaner sound scape. I also found the midrange a bit more detailed giving female vocals in particular a bit of added emotional clarity.

To me this makes these a wash in regard to which is better. It's more about which sound scape works best for someone. If you really like tighter bass and detail seperation Sony has a definite edge with the 1000X. If you prefer an arguably more cohesive holistic sound stage then the AZ60 offers that.

In my case I actually like both signatures. But if I was limited to only one choice I would lean toward the AZ60.

So how does this fit with the more modern Sony TWS. I can only speak about what I have owned. the WF-1000XM3 offered similar bass and mids as the 1000X but lacked the same treble detail and bite. For me the WF was just never exciting and compelling.

From what I read the addition of LDAC plus the use of the EQ the WF-1000XM4 allow it to have greater detail up into the treble range. If this allows it to be as detailed as the WI-1000X it would be a tempting option. If it Manages to open the sound stage up it would then be a small step up from the AZ60 especially if a person wants that added bass control.

I will wait until I can afford to buy a pair to compare or maybe get lucky and find a friend who happens to own a pair so I can try them out.


----------



## Samplingentropy

Expecting a delivery of 2 pairs of klipsch t5ii sport around x-mas - new year as replacement for r6 neckband ones with issues.
Anyone listend to them and have an opinion?
As I really prefer neckband style I am considering selling/trading them for that style,but having a hard time finding reviews.
Is there a neckband Bluetooth thread here?


----------



## dweaver

I have not seen a neckband thread. They have lost their mojo in regards to popularity. Having said that, their are some really good neckband models out their, search for WI-1000 to see the various Sony models, 1More has 1 or 2 models, Sennheiser also has a model or 2. 

The other option is the ones not using a horseshoe design, just a cable between the two IEMs . Status Audio has a decent and very affordable model in that vein.


----------



## Samplingentropy

dweaver said:


> I have not seen a neckband thread. They have lost their mojo in regards to popularity. Having said that, their are some really good neckband models out their, search for WI-1000 to see the various Sony models, 1More has 1 or 2 models, Sennheiser also has a model or 2.
> 
> The other option is the ones not using a horseshoe design, just a cable between the two IEMs . Status Audio has a decent and very affordable model in that vein.


Thanks.
I had Bose's ones, so comfy,but sort of mhee sound.
The klipsch r6 was nice sounding but uncomfortable/stiff neckband.

The ones with just a cable would be ok to, I just want/need to be able to drop 1 or both buds out on the go, like on the bike,in the store, meeting a friend for just a sec.
And I have an uncanny ability to lose 1 bud or the chargebox when I tried tws's before.

Needs/wants are ability to hang in some way,long battery life,min 10h and comfort.
Good Sound is appreciated but not the most important.
I got some full-size cans for that 

I'll look up reviews on your suggestions


----------



## BooleanBones

dweaver said:


> I have not seen a neckband thread. They have lost their mojo in regards to popularity. Having said that, their are some really good neckband models out their, search for WI-1000 to see the various Sony models, 1More has 1 or 2 models, Sennheiser also has a model or 2.
> 
> The other option is the ones not using a horseshoe design, just a cable between the two IEMs . Status Audio has a decent and very affordable model in that vein.


B&W have the Pi3 and Pi4s neckbands. I have some of the early Pi3s and they sound great for what they are. The Pi4s have more features, but seems like hit and miss on quality.


----------



## TooPoorForHiFi

dweaver said:


> I have not seen a neckband thread. They have lost their mojo in regards to popularity. Having said that, their are some really good neckband models out their, search for WI-1000 to see the various Sony models, 1More has 1 or 2 models, Sennheiser also has a model or 2.
> 
> The other option is the ones not using a horseshoe design, just a cable between the two IEMs . Status Audio has a decent and very affordable model in that vein.



I see that you own both the Buds Pro and AZ60. Have you written a comparison between the two? any Idea what Post # it is? or a quick run down? I'm assuming you prefer the AZ60 over the Buds Pro yeah?


----------



## assassin10000

Samplingentropy said:


> Expecting a delivery of 2 pairs of klipsch t5ii sport around x-mas - new year as replacement for r6 neckband ones with issues.
> Anyone listend to them and have an opinion?
> As I really prefer neckband style I am considering selling/trading them for that style,but having a hard time finding reviews.
> Is there a neckband Bluetooth thread here?


Fiio has a good BT neckband too IIRC.


----------



## DigDub (Dec 19, 2021)

Vivo tws 2. Got it as a free gift from my new Vivo phone purchase. Uses a large 12.2mm driver, has ANC, transparency and full controls on buds including swipe to control volume. No wireless charging. Although the specs state they have aptx, I can only use the AAC option. Comfort and mic is good. Sound quality is also very good, without any overemphasis on any frequencies, sound comes as natural and tends to be on the warm side. Could be due to the large drivers which makes it easier to tune. Soundstage is huge. Supports multipoint.


----------



## xSDMx

Ahead of the UTWS5 arriving, I unboxed my SE846 and ES100 that I had fully intended to sell as part of my newfound "TWS life". Why did I ever quit these? Man oh man. The bass. The bass is solid, impactful, and fast without being sloppy or head shaking. Ugh. So good.


----------



## dweaver

dj24 said:


> https://www.ebay.com/itm/2652301769...customid=4636abfc607811ec9b6bb2d9063b0fb60INT





TooPoorForHiFi said:


> I see that you own both the Buds Pro and AZ60. Have you written a comparison between the two? any Idea what Post # it is? or a quick run down? I'm assuming you prefer the AZ60 over the Buds Pro yeah?


The Buds Pro actually are very nice as well. I love their find feature it has literally save me $180 twice. I also like their automatic stop of music when removed from the ear. Their Achilles heel is ANC and isolation which is quite weak. They also have poor tips and require 3rd party tips for me and lots of people. There is also the potential for irritation from the resin used in the plastic.

Sonically speaking they are pretty good from bass to treble fallowing the Harmon curve for the most part.

The AZ60 is slightly less comfortable but has better physical isolation and then excellent ANC on top of that. The big advantage it has on top of ANC is multi-point connectivity. It's tips are all also super high quality.

Sonically speaking the AZ60 has bigger sub-bass and bass presence but it is a softer bass with a bit of bloom. The mids are a bit warmer and the treble is similar.

So go GBuds Pro if you like a sharper more audiophile signature and are not as concerned with ANC.

Go  AZ60 if you want good ANC and like a more consumer oriented signature.


----------



## Ceeluh7

voicemaster said:


> I don't think any TWS will be going with AptX HD soon as the new AptX adaptive will be the way to go. Sadly tho, there are like ZERO bluetooth USB dongle that has AptX adaptive yet.


I think IFi Go Blu


dweaver said:


> I have not seen a neckband thread. They have lost their mojo in regards to popularity. Having said that, their are some really good neckband models out their, search for WI-1000 to see the various Sony models, 1More has 1 or 2 models, Sennheiser also has a model or 2.
> 
> The other option is the ones not using a horseshoe design, just a cable between the two IEMs . Status Audio has a decent and very affordable model in that vein.


I still have the 1more triple driver with ldac and it sounds much better than most tws... More dynamic throughout. Really a nice set you can get for very cheap anymore


----------



## dweaver

OK been going ng back and forth with the WI-1000X and the AZ60 and I hate to say it but I might have to give the edge to the WI-1000X sonically speaking. They really do sound good. I only stopped using them because I thought the battery was shot. Sure glad I tried them with a different charger. But both products sound awesome so I will continue using the AZ60 during the day and use the WI-1000X at night around the house when the cable won't bother me as much.

Has anyone who has the WF-1000XM4 ever used the WI-1000X or X2 model? If so how do the models compare? 

The 1000X is a bit less bassy than the 1000XM3 and definitely has better treble. If that is the same with the 1000XM4 I may just to use what I own until they die and then maybe just get their new version if research shows it is as good sonically speaking. I can live with the horse shoe if it translates to better sound...


----------



## fursan7

DigDub said:


> Size comparison between fiil T2 pro, T1 lite and T1 pro.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Whoa they made the case even smaller.


----------



## voicemaster

Ceeluh7 said:


> I think IFi Go Blu
> 
> I still have the 1more triple driver with ldac and it sounds much better than most tws... More dynamic throughout. Really a nice set you can get for very cheap anymore


That is not TWS right? More like Fiio BTR5 or Qudelix?


----------



## riodgarp

my mifo o5 now looks like draining it's battery even already fully charged inside the case, most strange is the left side is blinking red-blue althought I already reset the connection


----------



## TooPoorForHiFi

dweaver said:


> The Buds Pro actually are very nice as well. I love their find feature it has literally save me $180 twice. I also like their automatic stop of music when removed from the ear. Their Achilles heel is ANC and isolation which is quite weak. They also have poor tips and require 3rd party tips for me and lots of people. There is also the potential for irritation from the resin used in the plastic.
> 
> Sonically speaking they are pretty good from bass to treble fallowing the Harmon curve for the most part.
> 
> ...



Awesome, Thank You. I prioritize Tonality & Bass nowadays so How is the Battery Life comparison between the two?


----------



## dweaver

About the same unless you use LDAC on the AZ60 in which case the GBuds Pro are better. Both last around 6-7 hours using AAC.


----------



## xuan87

Ventured out to a major departmental store (have not done so in years thanks to the pandemic) in order to try the Klipsch T5 II. I was intrigued by it because it has consistently reviewed well despite using a small dynamic driver. Prior to this, I have never been impressed by a micro dynamic driver before. 

The store didn't have the T5 II ANC, and the salesperson gave me the T5 II sports to try. I gonna say, it sounded much better than my low expectations. I was most impressed with the bass which hit harder and deeper than I expected, but managed to not sound boomy. I was least impressed with the small soundstage, which is probably due to the small driver, and may or maybe not also be caused by the driver being located in the stem. 

The only thing that made me a little hesitant to buy it was that the sound signature sounded a little... Off? I normally listen to flat and neutral earphones so the Klipsch could be a little too warm for my liking. Despite that, I can certainly understand its high ratings from online reviews.

The salesperson happened to have the Marshalls Mode II demo set in the same storage box as the Klipsch T5 II, and I happened to read that someone in this thread was looking to get them so why not just try them out since I was there right?

I tried them on with zero expectation and boom, mind blown. I only listened to a couple of songs but I clearly prefer them to the Klipsch T5 II. The bass did not hit as hard, but it reached deeper, and the sound signature was just closer to my preference. 

I liked them so much that I just collected a lightly used set from a seller today during lunch time. Looking forward to further listening after work. These will go into my current rotation of Nuratrue, Sony WF-1000XM3 and UE Fits. Might post a summary of all 4 TWS next week.


----------



## scubaphish

Gotta say I find it somewhat absurd and disappointing that the AKG N400 don’t support multiple devices. Not looking for multipoint, but it would be nice to be able to switch between sources without forgetting device. Has anyone had luck with that?

Also, fwiw, I’m using the Devialet tips and smallest fins. Finding buds more secure and good seal.


----------



## bizkid

This is slightly offtopic but i wonder if APTX Lossless, once introduced, will work on older devices. I know that LDAC was introduced into Android without the need for Hardware changes. When Qualcomm announced their next gen chips they also mentioned that these chips will do APTX Lossless so i'm wondering if it will ever come to older smartphones or we have to buy new stuff (meh...). Anyone with some insight into this topic?


----------



## cresny

scubaphish said:


> Gotta say I find it somewhat absurd and disappointing that the AKG N400 don’t support multiple devices. Not looking for multipoint, but it would be nice to be able to switch between sources without forgetting device. Has anyone had luck with that?
> 
> Also, fwiw, I’m using the Devialet tips and smallest fins. Finding buds more secure and good seal.


I'm having zero issues with that. It connects to my MacBook Pro or Pixel 6 is soon as I disconnect one or the other.  Because of the auto pairing I had to turn off Bluetooth on my phone the first time I connected to the Mac.

Other good news. I was totally wrong about the sensors. It turns out I was swiping too slow.  I think I had Stockholm syndrome from the iffy fingerprint readers on the aforementioned devices and  unconsciously  thought of the AKG as a fingerprint reader.  A simple quick flick works now and,  as  intended,  does not get confused with a tap.


----------



## scubaphish

cresny said:


> I'm having zero issues with that. It connects to my MacBook Pro or Pixel 6 is soon as I disconnect one or the other.  Because of the auto pairing I had to turn off Bluetooth on my phone the first time I connected to the Mac.
> 
> Other good news. I was totally wrong about the sensors. It turns out I was swiping too slow.  I think I had Stockholm syndrome from the iffy fingerprint readers on the aforementioned devices and  unconsciously  thought of the AKG as a fingerprint reader.  A simple quick flick works now and,  as  intended,  does not get confused with a tap.


Thanks. I disconnected but don’t think I tried turning Bluetooth off.


----------



## Ceeluh7

So the Fiio UTWS5 is going to be in my possession at some point today, I will definitely post a lil comparison to the Utws3.


----------



## Samplingentropy

Ceeluh7 said:


> I think IFi Go Blu
> 
> I still have the 1more triple driver with ldac and it sounds much better than most tws... More dynamic throughout. Really a nice set you can get for very cheap anymore


How long does the battery last? I've read 6h online and it's just too short :/
They do look nice, how is the passive isolation?


----------



## Ceeluh7

Samplingentropy said:


> How long does the battery last? I've read 6h online and it's just too short :/
> They do look nice, how is the passive isolation?


For me... Not bad at all. The tips aren't bad actually, they are a softer silicone but tacky to a degree and they seal very well. I don't think I purposely tested out the passive isolation but I will check when I get home from work man. They say the battery is 6 hrs or so and I have found that to be true. Very nice quality as well.


----------



## jant71 (Dec 20, 2021)

bizkid said:


> This is slightly offtopic but i wonder if APTX Lossless, once introduced, will work on older devices. I know that LDAC was introduced into Android without the need for Hardware changes. When Qualcomm announced their next gen chips they also mentioned that these chips will do APTX Lossless so i'm wondering if it will ever come to older smartphones or we have to buy new stuff (meh...). Anyone with some insight into this topic?


Nope. Both devices need the chips so not backwards compatible and not through firmware update either. LDAC is still a lossy codec and the loseless is supposed to be bit for bit and current stuff can't do it right. Of course the bitrate can be knocked down at times as it seems it will be an adaptive codec. Might be interesting if there is some sort of jailbreak and if it would work right. It is said to be built off of AptX adaptive.


----------



## Devodonaldson

Ceeluh7 said:


> So the Fiio UTWS5 is going to be in my possession at some point today, I will definitely post a lil comparison to the Utws3.


Mine on the way too. Looking to try with Campire Audio Solaris, and Audeze Euclid


----------



## voicemaster

bizkid said:


> This is slightly offtopic but i wonder if APTX Lossless, once introduced, will work on older devices. I know that LDAC was introduced into Android without the need for Hardware changes. When Qualcomm announced their next gen chips they also mentioned that these chips will do APTX Lossless so i'm wondering if it will ever come to older smartphones or we have to buy new stuff (meh...). Anyone with some insight into this topic?


Even AptX adaptive is not backward compatible with bluetooth transmitter using AptX LL and HD.


----------



## voicemaster

Ceeluh7 said:


> So the Fiio UTWS5 is going to be in my possession at some point today, I will definitely post a lil comparison to the Utws3.


I think you will like it if you like the utws3. I don't have utws3 to compare, but I have KZ AZ09 pro and TRN BT30. For me, utws5 is the best, 2nd place is AZ09 pro and so on.


----------



## Ceeluh7

Devodonaldson said:


> Mine on the way too. Looking to try with Campire Audio Solaris, and Audeze Euclid


Very nice man. I didn't want to put anything too crazy expensive on them, I'm thinking something like the TinHifi T3+, Hidizs MS2, maybe Aria... I'm looking forward to checking em out. The Solaris will be very nice on the UTWS5. The Audeze are slightly larger, they might be pretty tight in that case, maybe. Anyways I hope we enjoy these man and I'm hoping they are a cut above the utws3


----------



## jant71

voicemaster said:


> I think you will like it if you like the utws3. I don't have utws3 to compare, but I have KZ AZ09 pro and TRN BT30. For me, utws5 is the best, 2nd place is AZ09 pro and so on.


Can we get a comparison on the AZ09 Pro and FiiO just for size, weight, comfort and fit, stability, and working the controls? Just the physical wearing and usage of each. Thanks!


----------



## xSDMx

Re: the UTWS5: How reliable and consistent is pairing to different source devices when you reinitiate pairing by holding the multifunction case button for 3s? Does it just connect to the next source device no problem, or is there residual funkiness where the left and right adapters don't connect together, etc.? That was my big pain point with the UTWS3. They were just fine when only used with one device, but fell to pieces IMO if you needed to switch between sources often (e.g., laptop and phone).


----------



## voicemaster (Dec 20, 2021)

jant71 said:


> Can we get a comparison on the AZ09 Pro and FiiO just for size, weight, comfort and fit, stability, and working the controls? Just the physical wearing and usage of each. Thanks!


Without having the items in my hand, I can definitely tell you that the utws5 is larger and heavier than az09 pro but feels more premium/solid. Connection stability hasn't been an issue for both and any bluetooth 5.2 devices. They connect to my phone and pc pretty fast and I haven't had any dropouts with utws5, rarely on az09 pro.
They both are comfortable and I could wear them 6 hours straight no problem (I actually did last night with utws5).
The utws5 has volume control while az09 pro doesn't. The az09 pro has gaming mode and full power (high gain) mode, but the utws5 has a separate volume from the source. Both are plenty loud.
Minor thing is most bluetooth earhooks has reverse L&R placement in the case, while the utws5 it is normal, left earpiece goes to left side and vice versa.
The case of utws5 is larger than az09 pro. The utws5 case is metal with plastic lid where the az09 is all plastic. The utws5 has wireless charging and not on the az09.


The cable part on the az09 is more elastic while the utws5 is firmer and stay in place better.


----------



## voicemaster

xSDMx said:


> Re: the UTWS5: How reliable and consistent is pairing to different source devices when you reinitiate pairing by holding the multifunction case button for 3s? Does it just connect to the next source device no problem, or is there residual funkiness where the left and right adapters don't connect together, etc.? That was my big pain point with the UTWS3. They were just fine when only used with one device, but fell to pieces IMO if you needed to switch between sources often (e.g., laptop and phone).


It just pair to the next device right away. You can even just pair one side and left the other one inside the case and they both will automatically paired. The new bluetooth 5.2 is quite an advancement from previous generation.


----------



## BLUDGEON (Dec 21, 2021)

I'd been using Xiaomi Mi True Wireless Earbus Basic 2, which I found pretty great for the price (like $20 US?) but decided to upgrade when one of the buds cacked out.  I spent about 5 hours in a shop trying out different buds.

*The contenders:*
- Anker Soundcore Liberty 3 Pro
- Master & Dynamic MW08
- Sennheiser CX Plus
- Sony WF-1000XM4
- Sennheiser Momentum TWS 2
- Master & Dynamic MW07 Go

*Testing music:*
- Radiohead - The National Anthem
- True Damage - Giants
- Michael Jackson - Gotta Be Startin' Something
- Daft Punk - Give Life Back to Music, Doin' it Right
- Kanye West - Stronger
- Our Lady Peace - In Repair
- KDA - Pop/Stars
- Billie Eilish - bad guy, xanny

*Impressions:*
This will not be super detailed, just what I remember.  I started out with the L3P, MW08, and CX Plus.  Installed the Soundcore and Sennheiser apps, there isn't one for Master & Dynamic as far as I know but could be wrong.  I couldn't get the Sennheiser app to find the CX Plus buds no matter how many times I tried, including resetting the buds, re-installing the app, etc.  It couldn't find the Momentums later either.  Soundcore found the L3Ps no problem.

Started out with Billie Eilish on the L3Ps and was immediately impressed with the bass.  I'm big on really feeling the depth of bass and sub-bass (for reference, my over-ears are the V-Moda M100), and during the drops in "xanny" (*in* their second *hand* smoke, *still* just drinking *canned* Coke) I could feel myself immersed in it.  The MW08 and CX Plus didn't give me quite the same feeling.

After a few songs I was able to eliminate the MW08 as it just didn't sound as clear as either the L3Ps or the CX Plus.  It sounded good, but not as good, and especially at double or more the price it was an easy call.  The CX Plus didn't have the same gut-vibration the L3P did, but mids and vocals sometimes sounded a bit nicer.  It sounded a bit smoother.  It was a bit hard to tell if the Momentum TWS2 sounded much different from the CX Plus, but when comparing with the L3P they just didn't sound as clear.  I do think the LDAC accounts for some of that difference.

The Sony XM4s didn't really impress me even with LDAC.  I never really felt myself grooving when I was listening to them.  The bass didn't pack the punch I wanted even when adjusting it in the app, and it didn't seem to be made up for in clarity.  It could be they'd be nice for particular kinds of music that I wasn't trying out, but they were a pretty easy no in my comparison testing.

Then it was down to the L3P and the Sennheisers.  The songs were Radiohead's The National Anthem, KDA's Pop/Stars, and Kanye West+Daft Punk's Stronger.  I should mention I also set up the HearID EQ in the Soundcore app which was pretty interesting.  It basically cranked up the mids, which put more emphasis on vocals and electric guitar.  It also seemed to increase the volume.  I found that I liked it on some songs (like rock) and preferred the default on others.  Listening to the driving drums and bass in The National Anthem, the L3P had me grooving.  The Sennheisers were good but just didn't give me the same energy, on top of feeling somewhat lacking in clarity in comparison so they were out.

I thought I was basically set on the L3P until I remembered to try the MW07 Go which I'd remembered liking when I tried them out a year or so ago.  Oh crap, they sounded good!  They seemed to have slightly less sub-bass then the L3P but had a great impact on the bass drum in The National Anthem.  They had me grooving too.  It was tough to decide which ones sounded better.  There was also the form factors and usability to consider.  I really like the physical buttons on the MW07 Go, and they were much easier to pick out and put back in the case.  The L3Ps are a bit awkward to deal with in that sense, and I kept activating touch controls when handling them.  On the other hand, the MW07 Gos didn't seem to connect to my phone automatically when I took them out of the case.  It felt like I had to press a button on them to make them connect.  Both felt comfortable in my ears and didn't seem to slip even when jumping around and doing pushups (haha, yes I got some looks in the store).

Ultimately I found the Liberty Pro 3s just made my body vibrate a bit more and seemed a bit more clear/detailed.  I also liked how much the sound could be adjusted with EQ, which gets saved to the buds (handy for connecting to different devices).  Bonus was that the L3Ps ended up being the cheapest of all the contenders!  The extra features like ANC and Transparency were not factors for me but will be interesting to experiment with.  Should also note that I'm pretty sensitive to sibilance, and didn't find any problems there with any of the buds I tried out.

*I've had the L3Ps for a few days now, here are some last thoughts on them:*
- The ANC does seem pretty good, cutting out most of the low sounds of traffic and so on.
- Still haven't figured out how to get them in and out of the case elegantly.
- Have mostly been keeping them on the default tuning.  I'd read impressions here that people thought they sounded weird out of the box, but I like them.
- They connect to the phone easily and as soon as you open the case.
- The case is a good size and shape, fits in my front pocket beside my wallet no problem.
- They come with 4 sets of tips and 4 sets of wings, I get a good fit with the default wings and size 3 tips.  The tips sometimes flip inside out when taking the buds out of my ears.
- I haven't worn them for an extended period of time yet, but they seem comfortable so far.
- I connected them to my Windows 10 computer and tested the lag in the game menu - seemed like very low latency, couldn't detect a difference compared to the laptop speakers.
- LDAC does seem to make them sound better and clearer when listening to higher-res music.  I also just get a kind of peace of mind from it, knowing I'm not losing a bunch of data to compression.
- I used one bud to make a call while walking down the street, and my friend said it was really clear, as though I was talking into the phone itself.  That's a nice plus.

Not sure how valuable any of this is to anyone, but I've appreciated reading this thread for a long time and wanted to contribute.  Cheers!


----------



## erockg

New addition far left.  Wow.  Best Audio Technica TWS yet!  Quick shot:  ANC is really good in my home.  Sound is FULL.  Nice bass and sub-bass.  Thank you Amazon Japan!  Let the games begin...


----------



## Tommy C

erockg said:


> New addition far left.  Wow.  Best Audio Technica TWS yet!  Quick shot:  ANC is really good in my home.  Sound is FULL.  Nice bass and sub-bass.  Thank you Amazon Japan!  Let the games begin...



I hate you.... Just kidding, but you know what I mean  
Damn, these Grells are massive eh?


----------



## erockg

Tommy C said:


> I hate you.... Just kidding, but you know what I mean
> Damn, these Grells are massive eh?


I friggin LOVE the Grell buds.  Seriously.  I'm really having good time with them.  I bumped up the db and they're just shining for my hard rock tunes.  So far, so good.

I'll be listening to music and maybe a move while I put my son to bed tonight using those AT buds.


----------



## Ceeluh7

erockg said:


> I friggin LOVE the Grell buds.  Seriously.  I'm really having good time with them.  I bumped up the db and they're just shining for my hard rock tunes.  So far, so good.
> 
> I'll be listening to music and maybe a move while I put my son to bed tonight using those AT buds.


I must've missed it... What AT buds are those again?


----------



## HaliHarry

erockg said:


> New addition far left.  Wow.  Best Audio Technica TWS yet!  Quick shot:  ANC is really good in my home.  Sound is FULL.  Nice bass and sub-bass.  Thank you Amazon Japan!  Let the games begin...


Which one do you love the most ???


----------



## erockg

Ceeluh7 said:


> I must've missed it... What AT buds are those again?


The ATH-CKS50TW.


----------



## erockg

HaliHarry said:


> Which one do you love the most ???


Out of those three, the Noble Fokus for sure.  They're a powerful set of buds.  I have to admit, I'm leaning toward the ATH-CKS50TWs overtaking the Grell.  I'm really impressed by the fit, ANC (which blocks out fan noise and TV sounds incredibly well) and the sound.  It's a great package for less than what the Grell offers.  Spent most of last night listening and comparing.  I'll still compare and contrast today to make sure my thoughts do not deceive me.


----------



## xSDMx

The CKS50TWs look awesome. I love the case design. I just wish the case supported Qi wireless charging. 😢


----------



## erockg

xSDMx said:


> The CKS50TWs look awesome. I love the case design. I just wish the case supported Qi wireless charging. 😢


Yeah, I do too.  That said, the battery life is insane.  Maybe that'll help me forget.


----------



## voicemaster

erockg said:


> Yeah, I do too.  That said, the battery life is insane.  Maybe that'll help me forget.


It has 20 hours playback in a single charge? Holy!!


----------



## erockg

voicemaster said:


> It has 20 hours playback in a single charge? Holy!!


I think with ANC off, but still... pretty crazy.


----------



## voicemaster

erockg said:


> I think with ANC off, but still... pretty crazy.


As I rarely use ANC in my life, it is pretty impressive. I hope more and more TWS that are coming will have at least 8 hours of battery life in a single charge.


----------



## jant71

xSDMx said:


> The CKS50TWs look awesome. I love the case design. I just wish the case supported Qi wireless charging. 😢


Case is also a rubber feel even though hard plastic and wide mouth big lid so not the skinny tops that I certainly dislike and the flattened sides. they really got the ergonomics right. Big lid but still holds itself open as well. Magnets are strong and most tips work fine unless extra long. 

Yep, battery is not something I even think of. Still 15 with ANC.  Quick charge as well.


----------



## voicemaster (Dec 21, 2021)

jant71 said:


> Case is also a rubber feel even though hard plastic and wide mouth big lid so not the skinny tops that I certainly dislike and the flattened sides. they really got the ergonomics right. Big lid but still holds itself open as well. Magnets are strong and most tips work fine unless extra long.
> 
> Yep, battery is not something I even think of. Still 15 with ANC.  Quick charge as well.


15 hours with ANC on is unheard of in TWS world. I could fly the longest flight SFO to Singapore with just a single charge.
How do AT do that with the battery life? Is it bigger than 1more ANC buds?


----------



## voicemaster

xSDMx said:


> Re: the UTWS5: How reliable and consistent is pairing to different source devices when you reinitiate pairing by holding the multifunction case button for 3s? Does it just connect to the next source device no problem, or is there residual funkiness where the left and right adapters don't connect together, etc.? That was my big pain point with the UTWS3. They were just fine when only used with one device, but fell to pieces IMO if you needed to switch between sources often (e.g., laptop and phone).


I just tried it today switching between my surface book and S21 Ultra. I have to disconnect them from the PC and the utws5 will be in pairing mode and just go to bluetooth setting on my phone and connect to the utws5. It then connect within 1-2 sec after that. Same thing when doing it the other way around. The utws5 needs to be disconnected first in order to connect to a different device.


----------



## jant71 (Dec 21, 2021)

voicemaster said:


> 15 hours with ANC on is unheard of in TWS world. I could fly the longest flight SFO to Singapore with just a single charge.
> How do AT do that with the battery life? Is it bigger than 1more ANC buds?


Not sure how big the 1More actually are. AT probably a slight bit bigger but certainly a different shape. Weight is the same though 8g and 7.9g for the buds and the 1More is 79g with the case and the AT is 76g with the case.

I see there is an english manual now...
https://www.audio-technica.co.jp/do.../Content/True-Wireless/ATH-CKS50TW/index.html

I see that they have a 5 minute auto off when disconnected which is good if you want to leave the charging case home. Buuut you need a little pouch or leash for them to make it easier.

Annnnd duh... I complained about her talking too much but I totally never realized I could change from voice to tone.


----------



## xSDMx

voicemaster said:


> I just tried it today switching between my surface book and S21 Ultra. I have to disconnect them from the PC and the utws5 will be in pairing mode and just go to bluetooth setting on my phone and connect to the utws5. It then connect within 1-2 sec after that. Same thing when doing it the other way around. The utws5 needs to be disconnected first in order to connect to a different device.


Thanks for confirming. Good to know, but definitely a huge bummer. I was hoping the pairing button would force disconnect without having to go fish out your last computer. Super annoying if you have multiple computers and forget to disconnect explicitly.


----------



## voicemaster

jant71 said:


> Not sure how big the 1More actually are. AT probably a slight bit bigger but certainly a different shape. Weight is the same though 8g and 7.9g for the buds and the 1More is 79g with the case and the AT is 76g with the case.
> 
> I see there is an english manual now...
> https://www.audio-technica.co.jp/do.../Content/True-Wireless/ATH-CKS50TW/index.html
> ...


1more is like old bose type of TWS shape. The AT looks more like Sennheiser Momentum shaped.


----------



## dj24 (Dec 21, 2021)

Jabra Elite 85t after coupon code"*SAVEONCR15*"  is currently just *$68* from Jabra's official store on e-bay.


----------



## jwong

Just got the Elite 75t from their official ebay store. Defective. Sigh.


----------



## davescleveland

Penon just sent me the wrong TWS. I've been waiting a month. Ugh


----------



## davescleveland

Grells suck


----------



## jant71 (Dec 21, 2021)

> Penon just sent me the wrong TWS. I've been waiting a month. Ugh



Lots of nice deals and new models recently. AKG, JBL, Jabra etc. Might I ask what on Penon was interesting enough to purchase? Maybe the GeekFly but those are not good deals as the battery life and features aren't really there. Might as well spend the extra $50 and get the FoKus and get an app and US service and shipping and more battery per charge. Most likely a better fit and much better looking as well.


----------



## voicemaster (Dec 21, 2021)

My 2nd utws5 .78mm version came today. Paired it up with Moondrop Variations and another good pairing imho. The utws5 is able to bring the sub bass rumble that is known for in Variations. I've tried other bluetooth earhook and they can't drive the Variations properly, but not the utws5. I highly recommend the utws5 for people looking at bluetooth earhook.

Too bad the Kato 2pin socket is kind of recessed so the connection won't be secure enough.


----------



## Ceeluh7

Hey fellas, i posted this yesterday to a Facebook Group I am a part of so instead of re-writing I'll just copy and paste that post. This was a quick blurb about some differences with the Utws3 and Utws5. 


Fiio Utws5 

After a few hours with the Fiio Utws5 I can surely say that yes, these adapters are an upgrade from the Fiio Utws3. The question is.... How much of an upgrade? 

The last year or so I have spent quite alot of on-the-go time jamming out to the Utws3 using both the 2 pin as well as the mmcx versions. I have always been impressed with the capabilities of these adapters. The sound is robust and full with good extension on both ends of the spectrum for wireless and for the most part a balanced presentation with slight emphasis in the low end. Good for portable uses. However, as nice as they are there were some issues reported. Granted I have never had these issues with my two units but the Utws3 did have some connection issues reported with initial pairing and even  issues of the adapters not always turning off in the case and sometimes only one would connect, some reported issues with mmcx version's connector wearing out... Stuff like that. As polished as they are for a wireless style adapter they did have new tech problems at times. Again, I have never had those issues so.... QC? They Carry Aptx, AAC, SBC and could give you roughly 5-6 hrs of listening time on the adapters alone and 30 hrs on the case. The case is rather large, with indicator lights to report battery life as well as the Fiio music player app or the Fiio Control app which both can be used for additional controls and functions such as... Firmware Updates, left-right balance, button control schemes, a total of #4 Low Pass Filters and various other minor controls. The Utws3 runs on a Qualcomm QCC3020 chip using BT 5.0 with an independent "TPA6410A2" Amplifier which promises 38 mw @16 ohms and also has an IPX4 waterproof rating. Easy to push buttons are used almost at the ends of each right and left adapter for different controls. For $69.00 US you can get these versatile music makers. I described the Utws3 so that I can simply say that the UTWS5 has every function, the same physical footprint and more features than the Utws3 and truthfully is just.... Better....in every regard. 

In comes the end of 2021 and Fiio decided to upgrade their wireless adapters to the Fiio Utws5. The 5 comes with the exact same case for the most part with slight differences cosmetically like golden accents in the wording as well as a better hinge and small guides where the adapter sits in the case. Both units provide plenty of room for small or large iems. The 5 has also been equipped with wireless charging. The 5 is upgraded to 8 hrs of battery life from the 6 hrs on the 3. As far as the adapters themselves they have upgraded to BT 5.2 using Qualcomm 5141 SOC Chip which imo is a huge upgrade pertaining to ease of connectivity. Also the 5 has finally its own Independant left and right  DAC chip "AK4332ECB" housing an upgraded Amplifier which pumps up the amplification to 53 mw @ 32 ohm load promising greater output (40% more) with a much lower noise floor and that is confirmed as well as a much higher signal to noise (SNR) ratio. The Utws5 has Aptx-Adaptive which sees 24bit 96 khz, Aptx, AAC, and SBC Audio Codecs with promises for future upgrades from Fiio via firmware updates to LHDC audio codec as well as Ambient Mode and a 10 band EQ in the app. Also, the 5 has Qualcomm Snapdragon Sound Technology... Whatever that is. 

With all that being said (sorry I had to do it) the most important thing is, will there be a difference in sound quality? I spent the better part of 5 hrs going back and forth between the Utws3 and the Utws5 and while I do fully enjoy the 3, I have to say that the upgrade is noticible to me. I went back and forth using the same iems, the T3+ and the ZAS. Switching back and forth with both iems and both adapters taking the Iems off and putting on the other... again and again and again. I just have to say.. they (Fiio) did a great job with the 5 as It has a cleaner sound, better details, extension, with deeper Sub-bass, just about the same fullness to the mid-bass yet extending further in the highs. The 5 shows well with its low noise floor with (to my ears) almost no audible hiss and a very dynamic sound while remaining for the most part balanced throughout. The output power is evidently louder while the on board DAC does a great job offering better control with better speed and decay, better separation, better resolution and clarity. These truly are better across the board and are ACTUALLY a proper upgrade. Is it worth the $120.00 and $50 dollar price difference? To me.... Absolutely. 

I will go more in depth and single out the Utws5 in a future post if anyone requests such a thing, adding additional functionality, and more in depth with the sound but for now I wanted to point out some differences to hopefully help us all out making a purchasing decision, after all... most of us are not rolling in cash and so any reviews are a good thing especially based on personal experience. 

I will also add that before the 5 I felt strongly that the 3 was the absolute best wireless adapter of its kind and is absolutely worth the $60-70 USD they are asking. Also, I feel the 5 is 100% worth $120.00 and completely out performs the Utws3. I have not had the chance to try the KZ Az09 Pro, or Shure's TW2 (which I hear are fantastic) & TRN's BT30. I will get my hands on the Az09 Pro soon but I think I already know the answer that a comparison would garner between the two. The Utws5 is much much better than the Ibasso Cf01 which retails for over $160 and much better than the Fostex TM2C set as well which sells for $300 USD, truthfully... It isn't even a competition to me. 

I'd have to say that Fiio really did outdo themselves. Give me more time to really listen to the 5 so that I can give a proper opinion of the sound. Granted I am only me and this is all an opinion. I am not a professional reviewer and every opinion is based on my experiences with music and audio gear as someone else may have a completely different opinion as well as give better explanation than lil Ole me. Please wait for and listen to other reviews and ideas which I'm very sure are going to be piling in shortly. I hope you all are well and good and please take good care. Oh.... Merry Christmas.


----------



## Ceeluh7

voicemaster said:


> My 2nd utws5 .78mm version came today. Paired it up with Moondrop Variations and another good pairing imho. The utws5 is able to bring the sub bass rumble that is known for in Variations. I've tried other bluetooth earhook and they can't drive the Variations properly, but not the utws5. I highly recommend the utws5 for people looking at bluetooth earhook.
> 
> Too bad the Kato 2pin socket is kind of recessed so the connection won't be secure enough.


Dude... How good does Timeless sound on these? I was pretty close to picking them up. Very cool man, putting Variations and Timeless on these says alot. Awesome


----------



## voicemaster

Ceeluh7 said:


> Hey fellas, i posted this yesterday to a Facebook Group I am a part of so instead of re-writing I'll just copy and paste that post. This was a quick blurb about some differences with the Utws3 and Utws5.
> 
> 
> Fiio Utws5
> ...


Actually KZ AZ09pro is very good. The only drawback is that only C-pin connector is available as of now so if you want to use it with let say Tin 3+, you have to cut the outer sleeve surrounding the 2pin connector. Other than that, it has plenty of power, quite long battery life for such a small body, solid connection and gaming mode for under $50. Still, the utws5 I think sounds more solid and dead silent when nothing is playing.


----------



## voicemaster

Ceeluh7 said:


> Dude... How good does Timeless sound on these? I was pretty close to picking them up. Very cool man, putting Variations and Timeless on these says alot. Awesome


It is very good to my ears. Using the utws5, it is the closest sounding as when I am using my desktop amp.


----------



## xSDMx (Dec 21, 2021)

voicemaster said:


> I just tried it today switching between my surface book and S21 Ultra. I have to disconnect them from the PC and the utws5 will be in pairing mode and just go to bluetooth setting on my phone and connect to the utws5. It then connect within 1-2 sec after that. Same thing when doing it the other way around. The utws5 needs to be disconnected first in order to connect to a different device.


You forgot the best part!

With the UTWS5 now in my possession, I can confirm that you are able to consistently use the case multi-function button to reconnect to a different device WITHOUT having to first disconnect from the previous device, etc. I would still prefer if I could use the touchpad on an individual ear hook adapter for this (without needing the case), but this is already a huge QoL improvement over the UTWS3. Paired to my P6P, put the ear hooks back in the case, press and hold the case multi-function button for 3s, select the UTWS5 within the bluetooth devices menu on my MacBook. Boom, done. Paired. Good to go. YES!


----------



## Ceeluh7

voicemaster said:


> Actually KZ AZ09pro is very good. The only drawback is that only C-pin connector is available as of now so if you want to use it with let say Tin 3+, you have to cut the outer sleeve surrounding the 2pin connector. Other than that, it has plenty of power, quite long battery life for such a small body, solid connection and gaming mode for under $50. Still, the utws5 I think sounds more solid and dead silent when nothing is playing.


Ya, I do have a bunch of c-pin iems and for the price... It's hard not to pick it up


----------



## Ceeluh7

xSDMx said:


> You forgot the best part!
> 
> With the UTWS5 now in my possession, I can confirm that you are able to consistently use the case multi-function button to reconnect to a different device WITHOUT having to first disconnect from the previous device, etc. I would still prefer if I could use the touchpad on an individual ear hook adapter for this (without needing the case), but this is already a huge QoL improvement over the UTWS3. Paired to my P6P, put the ear hooks back in the case, press and hold the case multi-function button for 3s, select the UTWS5 within the bluetooth devices menu on my MacBook. Boom, done. Paired. Good to go. YES!


I did not know this fun fact.... Sweet. Thanks man


----------



## davescleveland

jant71 said:


> Lots of nice deals and new models recently. AKG, JBL, Jabra etc. Might I ask what on Penon was interesting enough to purchase? Maybe the GeekFly but those are not good deals as the battery life and features aren't really there. Might as well spend the extra $50 and get the FoKus and get an app and US service and shipping and more battery per charge. Most likely a better fit and much better looking as well.


Geekfly gf10. I have the gf8s and the sound is really amazing. Maybe better than any of my others. The gf8s, MTW2, and Akg n400 are the keepers. So they sent me bgvp after 5 weeks of waiting. This will take months to resolve


----------



## voicemaster

Ceeluh7 said:


> Ya, I do have a bunch of c-pin iems and for the price... It's hard not to pick it up


Yes it is probably the best budget bluetooth earhook right now. I am pairing it up with my KATO.


----------



## Canabuc

Lying here listening to some jazz  and some female vocals on my AZ60.
Sounds so amazing. Rush and full but with great treble.
Really as good as my Moondrop Aria when in LDAC.
They were a steal at about 160$ US


----------



## dweaver

Canabuc said:


> Lying here listening to some jazz  and some female vocals on my AZ60.
> Sounds so amazing. Rush and full but with great treble.
> Really as good as my Moondrop Aria when in LDAC.
> They were a steal at about 160$ US


They are spectacular with jazz, especially female vocals. I also enjoyed Sketches in Spain alot with the AZ60.


----------



## regancipher

I just finished uploading an indoor mic test of 12 different sets of earbuds to YouTube - 1More, Edifier, FIIL, SoundPEATS, QCY and Tronsmart all feature - if calls are your thing give it a watch  -


----------



## senorbroom

Just purchased the Technics AZ60 after reading some of the buzz here. Unfortunately just missed the Xmas delivery deadline so will be receiving them after Boxing Day. Looking forward to trying them.


----------



## BigAund

I have the Sony Xm4, i find them uncomfortable after a short while. Does anyone know if the Technics are more comfortable generally than the sonys?


----------



## Juturna

BigAund said:


> I have the Sony Xm4, i find them uncomfortable after a short while. Does anyone know if the Technics are more comfortable generally than the sonys?


This might not be worth much but I think it’s difficult for anyone to answer that without having your ears, lol. 

Do you have smaller ears? 
Where do the Sony XM4s feel uncomfortable in the ear? 

Might make it easier for people to give an answer.


----------



## dweaver (Dec 24, 2021)

BigAund said:


> I have the Sony Xm4, i find them uncomfortable after a short while. Does anyone know if the Technics are more comfortable generally than the sonys?


I have the AZ60 and the Sony WF-C500 which is actually smaller than the WF-1000XM4 but similar round design. The AZ60 fits my ears better. It is not quite as comfortable as the Samsung GBud Pro or the Jabra Elite 3 I have but more comfortable than the Sony, Sennheiser, AZ70.

In terms of comfort only I would go Jabra Elite 3 > Samsung GBud Pro > AZ60 > Sennheiser CX400BT > AZ70 > WF-C500. 

So based on that scale the WF-1000XM4 would likely fall after the WF-C500 which actually just gave me a reason to not buy the WF-1000XM4... 

Btw music wise the AZ60 is the top of the list for me with the GBuds Pro being very close.

For ANC the WF-1000XM4 will be the best but the AZ60 come in a close 2nd in my opinion.


----------



## BooleanBones

dweaver said:


> I have the AZ60 and the Sony WF-C500 which is actually smaller than the WF-1000XM4 but similar round design. The AZ60 fits my ears better. It is not quite as comfortable as the Samsung GBud Pro or the Jabra Elite 3 I have but more comfortable than the Sony, Sennheiser, AZ70.
> 
> In terms of comfort only I would go Jabra Elite 3 > Samsung GBud Pro > AZ60 > Sennheiser CX400BT > AZ70 > WF-C500.
> 
> ...


One additional note, which has been mentioned before a bit back, is that the AZ60s fit further in your ear canal than the XM4s. Feels a bit odd at first and with the wrong tip sizing it can get uncomfortable after a bit. Super secure though.


----------



## dj24

Haven't seen much said here about the AZ60's call quality...  How are they on zoom and other VOIPs?


----------



## ForgotMyName

Which has better detail and soundstage between the 1000xm4, liberty 3 pro, and az60? I can't find a comparison between them besides the first two. But that comparison is on an Anker subreddit, so its going to be biased.


----------



## jibberish

BigAund said:


> I have the Sony Xm4, i find them uncomfortable after a short while. Does anyone know if the Technics are more comfortable generally than the sonys?


I'm not sure exactly which Technics set you're referring to, but I'm assuming you mean the AZ60, and I don't have that set.  I do have the Technics AZ70, the Jabra Elite 85t and I briefly owned the JBL Club Pro, and I found that each of them are more comfortable than the Sony WF-1000XM4 to me.  

I did finally find a set of aftermarket tips which made the WF-1000XM4 much more comfortable for me, they are basically Spiral Dot clones that came as stock tips on a wired IEM set I own. So, tip rolling might reveal another type that significantly improves comfort for you.  Stock tips and SpinFit CP100 just didn't quite work for me.


----------



## dweaver

OK, decided to try a 3rd low price TWS. BB has the Soundcore Life Note 3 on sale for $69, so I thought what the heck. This model is essentially the same as the Life P3 on the Anker site minus wireless charging.

Initial impression is pretty darn good, better than the WF-C500 and Jabra Elite 3 for sound quality and features by a good margin.

For that $69 I got ANC that's almost as good as the AZ60, ambient mode, 7hrs of battery life without ANC and 6 with ANC according to reading. 

Sound wise these are not up to my AZ60 based on initial impressions, but I will need to spend more time to fully guage that. But compared to what they are priced at these easily compete and I think beat Jabra and Sony. I find the bass a bit bloated but the EQ easily tweaks it into place.

The Life P3 are actually in sale for the same $69 on Amazon, so a better deal than what I bought at Best Buy. Kinda mad I didn't check first... ,  I will live without the wireless charging...


----------



## guitarizt

I'll try to make this short as possible since I'm sick of researching which could be useless anyway, but I love my shure srh-840s. Never felt the need to upgrade for over 6 years. I'd love a bt bud that sounded similar. I found out about the shures on here back when they came out, and was hoping to be steered in the same direction for bt buds.

I tried powerbeats. Knew right away it wasn't going to work, but messed around with diff tips and eq settings. I returned it. I just got the galaxy buds+ for 45. I can see why the reviews are good and the sound is ok, but I don't love the sound sig. I def feel the need to upgrade. I'll keep them for the price I got them at, transparency mode, and batt life.

What should I be getting? I just found out about bt hooks on here as well as the technics az60s. I'm not sure where the 160 price is at for the az60s? Also I'm a stickler for transparency mode since I need it at work and jogging. I've never felt the need for noise canceling, I actually want the opposite. I don't feel that picky, but this is becoming a struggle!


----------



## Caipirina (Dec 25, 2021)

erockg said:


> New addition far left.  Wow.  Best Audio Technica TWS yet!  Quick shot:  ANC is really good in my home.  Sound is FULL.  Nice bass and sub-bass.  Thank you Amazon Japan!  Let the games begin...


Am I to understand the ATH also do multipoint? This is getting very tempting! Already put in my amazon basket, but I might wait to try the fit in shop (or if there's any January sale) ..   any chance the @erockg can do some ANC comparison? So far already happy by your first impressions ... 




ooooh, e-earphone already has a used (level C) set for sale .. might be that the damage is limited to missing a pair of ear tips ...  then again, not a fan of blue



Oh, wait, maybe it's this pair that someone on amazon.jp complains about ... weird though that they say amazon won't take it back (pick up?)


----------



## Tommy C (Dec 25, 2021)

guitarizt said:


> I'll try to make this short as possible since I'm sick of researching which could be useless anyway, but I love my shure srh-840s. Never felt the need to upgrade for over 6 years. I'd love a bt bud that sounded similar. I found out about the shures on here back when they came out, and was hoping to be steered in the same direction for bt buds.
> 
> I tried powerbeats. Knew right away it wasn't going to work, but messed around with diff tips and eq settings. I returned it. I just got the galaxy buds+ for 45. I can see why the reviews are good and the sound is ok, but I don't love the sound sig. I def feel the need to upgrade. I'll keep them for the price I got them at, transparency mode, and batt life.
> 
> What should I be getting? I just found out about bt hooks on here as well as the technics az60s. I'm not sure where the 160 price is at for the az60s? Also I'm a stickler for transparency mode since I need it at work and jogging. I've never felt the need for noise canceling, I actually want the opposite. I don't feel that picky, but this is becoming a struggle!



Have you considered the the Shure TW2 (gen 2) adapters to use with your SE846?
They have ambient, great app with a feature-rich EQ and it's just overall a very good product.
If I had the SE846 that would have been my obvious choice as the TW2 are very comfy but the case is pretty big.


----------



## Tommy C

Can anyone tell me if the FIIO UTWS5 adapters have ambient mode? I’m unable to find anything about it so I’m assuming no ambient mode.  They are on sale locally and was wondering how they stack up against the Shure TW2 adapters.


----------



## xSDMx

Tommy C said:


> Can anyone tell me if the FIIO UTWS5 adapters have ambient mode? I’m unable to find anything about it so I’m assuming no ambient mode.  They are on sale locally and was wondering how they stack up against the Shure TW2 adapters.


There is a beta firmware with ambient mode. It works well. The official release is supposedly soon.


----------



## dj24

Cheap last minute stocking stuffer:

*Upgraded TRANYA T10 Wireless Earbuds [amazon.com]*

25.49 - 50% off Coupon Code *252K6LVE* = *$12.75 + Free Shipping*


----------



## guitarizt

Tommy C said:


> Have you considered the the Shure TW2 (gen 2) adapters to use with your SE846?
> They have ambient, great app with a feature-rich EQ and it's just overall a very good product.
> If I had the SE846 that would have been my obvious choice as the TW2 are very comfy but the case is pretty big.



I wish I had the se846s. I have the over the ear srh-840s that look like they're $150 right now. I don't feel that picky with earbuds and surprised I can't find something I like. I did try on a lot of headphones at guitar center back in the day to realize I loved the srh-840s, but those were hyped on here as well. It was between those and the ath-m50's, but the ath's didn't sound as good to me. I'm wondering if I would be better off going the bt hooks with iems, but also I'm looking to stay in that 300- price range. It just seems impossible to do this without trying a lot of stuff first, and was hoping someone would know prob what sound sig I'd like if I love my 840s.


----------



## voicemaster

xSDMx said:


> There is a beta firmware with ambient mode. It works well. The official release is supposedly soon.


Did you try the beta version?


----------



## Tommy C

guitarizt said:


> I wish I had the se846s. I have the over the ear srh-840s that look like they're $150 right now. I don't feel that picky with earbuds and surprised I can't find something I like. I did try on a lot of headphones at guitar center back in the day to realize I loved the srh-840s, but those were hyped on here as well. It was between those and the ath-m50's, but the ath's didn't sound as good to me. I'm wondering if I would be better off going the bt hooks with iems, but also I'm looking to stay in that 300- price range. It just seems impossible to do this without trying a lot of stuff first, and was hoping someone would know prob what sound sig I'd like if I love my 840s.


Oh sorry. My bad. In terms of sound quality I currently have the Sennheiser CX400BT, Shure TW2 attached to the stock SE215 Special Edition and the 1More Comfobuds Pro. All have strengths and weaknesses and their sound signature while somewhat similar they are different enough for my use case to have all 3 in my rotation.


----------



## xSDMx (Dec 25, 2021)

voicemaster said:


> Did you try the beta version?


I did, yes. It's not totally perfect, but ambient works pretty well.


----------



## voicemaster

xSDMx said:


> I did, yes. It's not totally perfect, but ambient works pretty well.


Any degradation to the sound? And how do you activate the ambient mode? Through the app or you can use the button on the module?


----------



## darveniza

dj24 said:


> Haven't seen much said here about the AZ60's call quality...  How are they on zoom and other VOIPs?


I have the AZ60 and like them for a lot of reasons, call quality is not one of them people keep telling me they have problems hearing me. Based on what I read the AZ continuously scans while on calls as to improve audio quality. However in real life maybe the scanning in a very dynamic environment is not the right approach.

People have described that I keep going in and out on loudness and clarity which tells me the earphone is adjusting

For calls I revert to LG Tone Free FP8 , never any issue including outdoors when walking in crowded places,etc


----------



## xSDMx (Dec 25, 2021)

voicemaster said:


> Any degradation to the sound? And how do you activate the ambient mode? Through the app or you can use the button on the module?


Surprisingly, I did not notice any sound degradation when I A/B tested multiple ambient sound volume levels (and vs. ambient mode disabled).

Right now, you activate ambient mode within the app by setting a volume level. Supposedly, FiiO might be planning support to toggle it via the earhook button, but TBD on that.

My main feedback is that ambient currently requires an active audio stream to work (i.e., playing music, sitting in a vid call, etc.) and that wind noise suppression is inconsistent.

But, for hearing traffic on a run or hearing your own voice during a video call, etc. it works really well.

For whatever reason, the ambient microphone sound quality is seemingly better than the voice call quality.

I'm hopeful that FiiO will continue to support the UTWS5, because there is a lot of room to make an already great product amazing IMHO.


----------



## jant71 (Dec 25, 2021)

Caipirina said:


> Am I to understand the ATH also do multipoint? This is getting very tempting! Already put in my amazon basket, but I might wait to try the fit in shop (or if there's any January sale) ..   any chance the @erockg can do some ANC comparison? So far already happy by your first impressions ...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I saw that review and there certainly can be a lemon but I totally threw it out cause they sound like a dummy really. Pick it up? Amazon gives you a label and you drop it off or give to a post man depending on the service. You want them to arrange for a pickup? They don't don't spend the extra so don't expect it and don't be lazy. I thought they were lazy/dumb and there was a real chance they didn't take the stickers off the contacts and that was the charge issue!

Yep, they seem to do multipoint just fine. I wasn't expecting it and tried with another device then shut that device off and the damn things were still playing stuff and I was like oh yeah multipoint. Either multipoit or haunted TWS 



xSDMx said:


> There is a beta firmware with ambient mode. It works well. The official release is supposedly soon.


Good to know. They should have it for the money you pay and since it is a standard feature these days.


Merry Christmas, happy holiday everyone!!


----------



## dweaver

dj24 said:


> Haven't seen much said here about the AZ60's call quality...  How are they on zoom and other VOIPs?


I have not used my AZ60 in a really noisy setting yet. Walking on suburban streets with cars going by with wind have been no issue. I use them with my computer and Teams with no issue. But have not tried them on transit, at the mall, or on a busy downtown Street yet.


----------



## erockg

Caipirina said:


> Am I to understand the ATH also do multipoint? This is getting very tempting! Already put in my amazon basket, but I might wait to try the fit in shop (or if there's any January sale) ..   any chance the @erockg can do some ANC comparison? So far already happy by your first impressions ...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Which headphones do you want me to compare ANC with? I’m actually selling off a bunch and keeping these because I truly love them. I’m not having any issues with them at all.


----------



## erockg

Santa arrived.  Showdown today to see which goes back!  Fiio FA9 vs Thieaudio Legacy 4.  Or maybe they both go back for something else?  So far, leaning towards keeping the L4.


----------



## jant71

erockg said:


> Which headphones do you want me to compare ANC with? I’m actually selling off a bunch and keeping these because I truly love them. I’m not having any issues with them at all.


Did that bass flesh out yet? Not night and day but less boom and more definition and more distinct. By 24 hours it settles.


----------



## jant71

erockg said:


> Santa arrived.  Showdown today to see which goes back!  Fiio FA9 vs Thieaudio Legacy 4.  Or maybe they both go back for something else?  So far, leaning towards keeping the L4.


If I may ask, why FA9 and not FH9? Price?


----------



## erockg

jant71 said:


> Did that bass flesh out yet? Not night and day but less boom and more definition and more distinct. By 24 hours it settles.


Seems so.  It's not as good as say, the Fokus, but I don't expect it to be since it was almost half the cost.  I'm definitely impressed by the soundstage and ANC on them of cost.  Have only listened to them for maybe 5 hours collectively.


----------



## erockg

jant71 said:


> If I may ask, why FA9 and not FH9? Price?


Figured I'd start out with the lesser expensive ones.  Have you heard the FH9?  They're actually in my cart.  I want to like the FA9 but there is something missing with them.  The sub bass and the mids on the L4s beats them.  The FA9 are warm, maybe too warm for my taste.  Always open to suggestions


----------



## jant71

erockg said:


> Figured I'd start out with the lesser expensive ones.  Have you heard the FH9?  They're actually in my cart.  I want to like the FA9 but there is something missing with them.  The sub bass and the mids on the L4s beats them.  The FA9 are warm, maybe too warm for my taste.  Always open to suggestions


Missing a good dynamic  And FiiO trying to compensate but not turning out right. Too warm hurts what armatures can do well and still doesn't add the sub bass which they can't. No experience with the FH9 outside of reading the impressions

The Autumn seems to be turning out well and the bass is adjustable in a more unique way than front screen filters. You need to find a L4 - Autumn comparison.  Sounds like the Autumn is the right price and single driver should behave well with the adapters for drivability and coherence plus the bass adjustable feature.



erockg said:


> Seems so.  It's not as good as say, the Fokus, but I don't expect it to be since it was almost half the cost.  I'm definitely impressed by the soundstage and ANC on them of cost.  Have only listened to them for maybe 5 hours collectively.


Like the stage and the weight which is good when out against all the noises and warmth and note weight get lost to that. The CK70TW was too far though in the thickness.


----------



## erockg

jant71 said:


> Missing a good dynamic  And FiiO trying to compensate but not turning out right. Too warm hurts what armatures can do well and still doesn't add the sub bass which they can't. No experience with the FH9 outside of reading the impressions
> 
> The Autumn seems to be turning out well and the bass is adjustable in a more unique way than front screen filters. You need to find a L4 - Autumn comparison.  Sounds like the Autumn is the right price and single driver should behave well with the adapters for drivability and coherence plus the bass adjustable feature.
> 
> ...


I'm not familiar with the Autumn.  I'll look into them.  I'm also leaning towards revisiting some Moondrop buds.  The Variations, Blessing 2 and/or S8.


----------



## jant71

erockg said:


> I'm not familiar with the Autumn.  I'll look into them.  I'm also leaning towards revisiting some Moondrop buds.  The Variations, Blessing 2 and/or S8.


Can't go wrong with the Blessing 2. SQ, value, looks with the color faceplates though maybe you'd want the bass of the Dusk...


----------



## dweaver

The Soundcore Life Note 3 (Life P3) is definitely a good TWS at its price point. Offering a great set of features for its price of $99 making it an excellent budget choice on sale right now at BB and Amazon in Canada at $69. I would say as long as your OK with a stem (my first stem TWS) these are a better value than Sony and Jabra entry level offerings.

The noice cancelling and ambient modes both work remarkably well and are above average in ability. The supplied tip selection is also very good.

Having the AZ60 where I see the drop off is sound quality. I would say it's as good or maybe slightly better than the Sony and Jabra entry level TWS but only may be 70% of the AZ60 when using LDAC and around 80% when using ACC on the AZ60. Considering is around 1/3 the price though it is still a  bargain and unless you have both IEMs to A/B test a person would blissfully enjoy the Lifenote 3 without missing a beat.

I am going to give them to my son and sell the Jabra and Sony entry level items.


----------



## red12355

Anybody have any info about the upcoming Ultrasone TWS (https://ultrasone.com/lapis/?lang=en)? They look promising but I haven't seen any coverage on this yet.


----------



## xSDMx (Dec 25, 2021)

red12355 said:


> Anybody have any info about the upcoming Ultrasone TWS (https://ultrasone.com/lapis/?lang=en)? They look promising but I haven't seen any coverage on this yet.


Hmm. Looks familiar. Like a recent chi-fi TWS set I remember seeing.


----------



## erockg

xSDMx said:


> Hmm. Looks familiar. Like a recent chi-fi TWS set I remember seeing.


 https://palm.com/?gclid=CjwKCAiAn5u...cx8DeiwkHn-dOIPlLvw-n6DTEgyjn1DBoCk6YQAvD_BwE


----------



## tinyman392

red12355 said:


> Anybody have any info about the upcoming Ultrasone TWS (https://ultrasone.com/lapis/?lang=en)? They look promising but I haven't seen any coverage on this yet.


They’re claiming 32 dB of isolation which is very high (like that’s Etymotic quotes which I haven’t heard a single IEM-based ANC system be able to match).  30 hour total battery life including case which is about 5 hours of single-charge life, 65 mAH battery (per earbud I assume) and 650 mAH case battery means that the case can recharge 5 times plus the 1 time for the IEMs themselves, so we get about 5 hour battery life on a single charge.  

Historically Ultrasone has been a mixed bag regarding sound quality.  Some of their headphones are OK/good while others are rubbish.  Just ask Tyll about the Edition 10


----------



## Tommy C

xSDMx said:


> Surprisingly, I did not notice any sound degradation when I A/B tested multiple ambient sound volume levels (and vs. ambient mode disabled).
> 
> Right now, you activate ambient mode within the app by setting a volume level. Supposedly, FiiO might be planning support to toggle it via the earhook button, but TBD on that.
> 
> ...



These sadly might be deal breakers for me as I normally use ambient when music is paused. I usually use ambient if I have people around me but I often find it difficult to carry even a short convo when the volume level is low enough. 
Also, switching the ambient on/off via off is a pain in the neck as I often don't have the phone on me.
Re mic, one reviews that I was watching, the guy praised the device itself but says the mics are useless and to not even bother with them. 
All in all, I may pull the trigger but the feedback feels like this product has great potential but is still half-baked to be highly recommended.


----------



## erockg

Not too bad so far - Marshall Mode II.  Very tiny.  They have an app and transparency mode.  Sadly, no volume controls on the buds.


----------



## Tommy C

erockg said:


> Not too bad so far - Marshall Mode II.  Very tiny.  They have an app and transparency mode.  Sadly, no volume controls on the buds.



How's the sound? They are on sale here locally


----------



## erockg

Tommy C said:


> How's the sound? They are on sale here locally


Still messing with them but I'm pleasantly surprised.  Amazed how small they are.  Case is tiny.  Also has wireless charging.  No ANC but passive isolation is okay with largest tips.


----------



## guitarizt

dweaver said:


> Well the urge to try something new while I impatiently wait for the AZ60 to arrive overwhelmed me. I was going to try the 75T but the store was sold out so I grabbed the Elite 3 for $79Cad and am scratching the Jabra itch since I have never tried them yet.
> 
> Have to say these sound pretty damn good and they are super comfy. Will have to do an A/B to the Sony WF-C500 but first blush I think the Jabra are going to win. Listening to some older Springsteen and they sound pretty damn good with that type of rock...


Hey, dweaver. What is your favorite pair of bt buds for sound that still have transparency mode? This is a nightmare researching! My friend in another state says he likes his galaxy buds pro. I got buds+ for the battery life and got a great deal on them, but I don't like the sound signature. Thanks in advance!


----------



## dweaver

I have the original GBuds and the GBuds Pro and the GBuds Pro has better sound with deeper bass, mids, and treble and is not as thin sounding. It's transparency mode is pretty good as well but the ANC is on the weaker side and the included tips are mediocre at best.

I find the AZ60 to a warmer larger sound signature with very good ANC and transparency mode.

The Jabra Elite 3 has transparency mode but it is pretty weak. Unfortunately I have not tried any other Jabra so can't comment on the other models.

Sony WC500 has not transparency mode.

The Soundcore Life P3 is currently on sale at least in Canada and it has good ANC and its transparent mode is also good. Its sound signature is a bit bassy but can be managed by the app. Bang for the buck it's a very good option in my opinion especially on sale. I just gave my son the pair I bought because I thought it was the best budget TWS I had tried.


----------



## Caipirina

erockg said:


> Which headphones do you want me to compare ANC with? I’m actually selling off a bunch and keeping these because I truly love them. I’m not having any issues with them at all.


would it be fair to let them stand up against the heavy hitters like XM4 or Bose QC?


----------



## SomeGuyDude

The GBuds pro honestly are the tippy top to me so far in terms of all rounders. I use the Vista 2 in the gym because they're rock solid in the ear but the GBuds Pro just sound REALLY damn good and the ANC is excellent. But then I'm also using a Samsung phone so that helps. Just need to get the foam tips and then they're aces.


----------



## scubaphish (Dec 26, 2021)

dupe


----------



## scubaphish (Dec 26, 2021)

Speaking of Samsung, I’m going to bring up the AKG N400 NC one last time. First and foremost I think they’re great earphones. All around. I don’t dread my Gemini battery drain anymore. As I mentioned, use them mostly for outside, but find myself leaving them on once I come back in.
I enjoy the default sound signature, but that said, since used mostly outdoors I want more volume, so I turned the eq all the way up. I gave it a U shaped curve  from around 200k to 6k, with trough at 1800ish, to mellow out the mids a little.
Noise cancel is good. Removes fan noises well. It is noise cancel, as opposed to the Gemini which are more like sound cancellation. I like the swipe to talk through feature, too. Helps a lot around the house FOR SURE
Excellent AAC connection. Very strong. I was mistaken in earlier post about remembering multiple devices. I now have paired to iPhone and watch. N400 switch very smoothly between them, don’t have to disconnect first.
I’ve grown accustomed to the the controls. They work pretty reliably for me. Have to find center to start the swipes, but they work for sure. Speaking of growing accustomed, I usually remember that right and left are on opposite sides.
Haven’t had chance to drain battery yet to know limit, but that just means it’s been working for me, so, all good there I guess.
Wish I could get the fins to work without being so painful. They stay in using just the  Gemini or Comply eartips, but would be nice to be even more secure.
Definitely hitting above its $50 price point; and frankly I think above its 150 price. I’d even put these agains M&D and Sony, based purely on memory mind you. Thanks for letting me ramble.


----------



## erockg

Caipirina said:


> would it be fair to let them stand up against the heavy hitters like XM4 or Bose QC?


I always think that those two are the best of the ANC lot by far.  But this is based off memory as I not longer have my QC and XM4 buds.  That said, the AT are no slouch.  Here at home, they block out a tremendous amount.  Possibly more than the other two did.  Could be due to better passive isolation in my ears.  I haven't tried them outdoors or on a plane.  They do fit me way better than the Bose (which killed my ears for some reason) and I very much prefer the sound on the AT over the Sony, but I may be in the minority.  The Sony buds needed better tips to get a good fit.


----------



## Szymon The Crackhead

Has anyone here tried the Status Audio Between Pro? I'm having a hard time finding credible reviews of them, but El Jefe, who has some experience with wired IEMs as well, seems to rate them extremely highly.


----------



## VibrantHarmonics

Can some recommend me a good sounding TWS that is also small for my ears? Budget can be max 200. What I want is no buds that stick out of my ears. I have had the KZ ZS6 for years, but these months or actually this year I barely listened to music. Maybe I didn't feel it. But good, since I have a Note 10+ ('gifted 'to me), it means I won't have wired anymore. I have been looking at different brands that sell ear buds as in Samsung's own Buds, Liberty 3 Pro, AZ60, Sennheiser, Sony MX4, but they look big to me based on the images I saw. You see, the ZS6 is not very light to my ears, and on the right side they fall off. I don't feel them sitting comfortable on my ears. For example I looked at Linsoul for suggestions, but they're mostly wired. Anyway, I've tried to look for specific threads on this website for TWS for small ears, even on Reddit, but I just can't find a good thread about it that discusses buds for small ears that are comfortable but have the features of buds for average person. I'd believe you guys know more about it. Thanks for reading this.


----------



## darveniza

erockg said:


> Not too bad so far - Marshall Mode II.  Very tiny.  They have an app and transparency mode.  Sadly, no volume controls on the buds.


Waiting to see if the Motif ANC become available


----------



## Caipirina

VibrantHarmonics said:


> Can some recommend me a good sounding TWS that is also small for my ears? Budget can be max 200. What I want is no buds that stick out of my ears. I have had the KZ ZS6 for years, but these months or actually this year I barely listened to music. Maybe I didn't feel it. But good, since I have a Note 10+ ('gifted 'to me), it means I won't have wired anymore. I have been looking at different brands that sell ear buds as in Samsung's own Buds, Liberty 3 Pro, AZ60, Sennheiser, Sony MX4, but they look big to me based on the images I saw. You see, the ZS6 is not very light to my ears, and on the right side they fall off. I don't feel them sitting comfortable on my ears. For example I looked at Linsoul for suggestions, but they're mostly wired. Anyway, I've tried to look for specific threads on this website for TWS for small ears, even on Reddit, but I just can't find a good thread about it that discusses buds for small ears that are comfortable but have the features of buds for average person. I'd believe you guys know more about it. Thanks for reading this.


I can recommend the Fiil T2 pro. Small, flush, highly pocketable, sound great, strong ANC


----------



## Ceeluh7

VibrantHarmonics said:


> Can some recommend me a good sounding TWS that is also small for my ears? Budget can be max 200. What I want is no buds that stick out of my ears. I have had the KZ ZS6 for years, but these months or actually this year I barely listened to music. Maybe I didn't feel it. But good, since I have a Note 10+ ('gifted 'to me), it means I won't have wired anymore. I have been looking at different brands that sell ear buds as in Samsung's own Buds, Liberty 3 Pro, AZ60, Sennheiser, Sony MX4, but they look big to me based on the images I saw. You see, the ZS6 is not very light to my ears, and on the right side they fall off. I don't feel them sitting comfortable on my ears. For example I looked at Linsoul for suggestions, but they're mostly wired. Anyway, I've tried to look for specific threads on this website for TWS for small ears, even on Reddit, but I just can't find a good thread about it that discusses buds for small ears that are comfortable but have the features of buds for average person. I'd believe you guys know more about it. Thanks for reading this.


The first set that came to mind  is the galaxy buds pro. They re small and you have a Samsung phone.... Perfect


----------



## dweaver

VibrantHarmonics said:


> Can some recommend me a good sounding TWS that is also small for my ears? Budget can be max 200. What I want is no buds that stick out of my ears. I have had the KZ ZS6 for years, but these months or actually this year I barely listened to music. Maybe I didn't feel it. But good, since I have a Note 10+ ('gifted 'to me), it means I won't have wired anymore. I have been looking at different brands that sell ear buds as in Samsung's own Buds, Liberty 3 Pro, AZ60, Sennheiser, Sony MX4, but they look big to me based on the images I saw. You see, the ZS6 is not very light to my ears, and on the right side they fall off. I don't feel them sitting comfortable on my ears. For example I looked at Linsoul for suggestions, but they're mostly wired. Anyway, I've tried to look for specific threads on this website for TWS for small ears, even on Reddit, but I just can't find a good thread about it that discusses buds for small ears that are comfortable but have the features of buds for average person. I'd believe you guys know more about it. Thanks for reading this.


I can say the AZ60 going to stick out. I also have the Buds Pro and they stick out a bit but not much. I can sleep on my side, sort of wearing them. The Buds 2 might be a bit smaller but from what I have read will not sound as good.


----------



## erockg

darveniza said:


> Waiting to see if the Motif ANC become available


Me too!


----------



## bladefd

CES 2022 is next week - Jan 5 to 8. Who is ready for some new TWS announcements??


----------



## Tommy C

bladefd said:


> CES 2022 is next week - Jan 5 to 8. Who is ready for some new TWS announcements??



I'm ready to see what's new out there and also ready to be sorely disappointed as it has been a pattern for me in recent years.


----------



## Caipirina

bladefd said:


> CES 2022 is next week - Jan 5 to 8. Who is ready for some new TWS announcements??



Yeah! As if we need more TWS! 

Amazon knows our kind all too well ... one set ain't enough


----------



## guitarizt

dweaver said:


> I have the original GBuds and the GBuds Pro and the GBuds Pro has better sound with deeper bass, mids, and treble and is not as thin sounding. It's transparency mode is pretty good as well but the ANC is on the weaker side and the included tips are mediocre at best.
> 
> I find the AZ60 to a warmer larger sound signature with very good ANC and transparency mode.
> 
> ...


Man, it's just so hard to tell without hearing them first. I'd rather just spend more for good sound quality as I have cheap letscomm bt buds I use for jogging. I love being able to hear everything outside with them as well as the audio, and I don't think the sound is that bad. I like it better than my old wired jvc gummies. Because I like them, I don't feel like I'm that picky.

I do have a pair of sony wi-c200s my friend gave me I like the sound sig of, but want better quality. Also with these, they come out easily and the cord gets in the way. I listen to music and podcasts 35-45 hours a week, and it'd be amazing to get the same feeling I get when I use my shure over the ears. Because of this I've thought about getting refurb wf-xm100fm4's. I'm trying to just get used headphones to save on the price to try out, and then I'll prob get a second pair of them.

I'm in a weird camp prob where I want a flat sound like my shure over the ears, would rather not have anc, and I don't like isolation because I like hearing my surroundings even when off without the need for transparency if possible. But I'd rather just have good sound quality and transparency mode. I might go down the bluetooth hook + iem rabbit hole. I want to cry, lol.


----------



## Tommy C

guitarizt said:


> Man, it's just so hard to tell without hearing them first. I'd rather just spend more for good sound quality as I have cheap letscomm bt buds I use for jogging. I love being able to hear everything outside with them as well as the audio, and I don't think the sound is that bad. I like it better than my old wired jvc gummies. Because I like them, I don't feel like I'm that picky.
> 
> I do have a pair of sony wi-c200s my friend gave me I like the sound sig of, but want better quality. Also with these, they come out easily and the cord gets in the way. I listen to music and podcasts 35-45 hours a week, and it'd be amazing to get the same feeling I get when I use my shure over the ears. Because of this I've thought about getting refurb wf-xm100fm4's. I'm trying to just get used headphones to save on the price to try out, and then I'll prob get a second pair of them.
> 
> I'm in a weird camp prob where I want a flat sound like my shure over the ears, would rather not have anc, and I don't like isolation because I like hearing my surroundings even when off without the need for transparency if possible. But I'd rather just have good sound quality and transparency mode. I might go down the bluetooth hook + iem rabbit hole. I want to cry, lol.


You may wanna check these:

Shure TW2 if you want the Shure sound with ear hooks.  Mine came with the SE215 Special Edition and it’s my current favourite.

1More Comfobuds Pro (Aurora Blue edition as it’s the only one with EQ presets) if you want super comfortable fit with minimal isolation if you can live with the stem style. They have ANC if you choose to use it and Ambient mode is very good too.


----------



## assassin10000

guitarizt said:


> Man, it's just so hard to tell without hearing them first. I'd rather just spend more for good sound quality as I have cheap letscomm bt buds I use for jogging. I love being able to hear everything outside with them as well as the audio, and I don't think the sound is that bad. I like it better than my old wired jvc gummies. Because I like them, I don't feel like I'm that picky.
> 
> I do have a pair of sony wi-c200s my friend gave me I like the sound sig of, but want better quality. Also with these, they come out easily and the cord gets in the way. I listen to music and podcasts 35-45 hours a week, and it'd be amazing to get the same feeling I get when I use my shure over the ears. Because of this I've thought about getting refurb wf-xm100fm4's. I'm trying to just get used headphones to save on the price to try out, and then I'll prob get a second pair of them.
> 
> I'm in a weird camp prob where I want a flat sound like my shure over the ears, would rather not have anc, and I don't like isolation because I like hearing my surroundings even when off without the need for transparency if possible. But I'd rather just have good sound quality and transparency mode. I might go down the bluetooth hook + iem rabbit hole. I want to cry, lol.



Have you tried buds live?


----------



## VibrantHarmonics

Caipirina said:


> I can recommend the Fiil T2 pro. Small, flush, highly pocketable, sound great, strong ANC


Is it possible to remove that black ring around the buds?


----------



## DigDub

VibrantHarmonics said:


> Is it possible to remove that black ring around the buds?


The black ring is removable. There are 3 options, one without any protrusion, one with a small wing and one with a large wing.


----------



## guitarizt

Tommy C said:


> You may wanna check these:
> 
> Shure TW2 if you want the Shure sound with ear hooks.  Mine came with the SE215 Special Edition and it’s my current favourite.
> 
> 1More Comfobuds Pro (Aurora Blue edition as it’s the only one with EQ presets) if you want super comfortable fit with minimal isolation if you can live with the stem style. They have ANC if you choose to use it and Ambient mode is very good too.


I actually was going to just get the tw2's until I saw some less than stellar reviews. Also the tw1's are half the price and super tempting. I haven't looked into it enough to see if the tw2's are that much better. Seems to be a big price diff between the 1more comfobuds pro and tw2's as well. It's too bad there aren't some go to models for buds, I'm guessing because fit plays a big role.


assassin10000 said:


> Have you tried buds live?


Nope, I'm interested in how they and the bud pros sound. I'm guessing the pro's are the best? I read one reddit review that said all three are fairly similar; if you have one it's not worth getting another.


----------



## VibrantHarmonics

One thing that is a deal breaker about the Fiil T2 Pro, is that it doesn't have AptX. Is there maybe an alternative to the Fiil T2 Pro? Or should I wait for CES 2022 to see new products?


----------



## Tommy C

guitarizt said:


> I actually was going to just get the tw2's until I saw some less than stellar reviews. Also the tw1's are half the price and super tempting. I haven't looked into it enough to see if the tw2's are that much better. Seems to be a big price diff between the 1more comfobuds pro and tw2's as well. It's too bad there aren't some go to models for buds, I'm guessing because fit plays a big role.
> 
> Nope, I'm interested in how they and the bud pros sound. I'm guessing the pro's are the best? I read one reddit review that said all three are fairly similar; if you have one it's not worth getting another.


No point getting the Shure TW1 even at half-price IMO. The old model does phone calls in mono and stored tracks on your device to sound at best have to be played from the Shure app and also early batches had battery drain issues. All these were fixed with the TW2.
In terms of sound quality and as mentioned previously, I bought them with the SE215 Special Edition and it's the closest thing in my stable for wired IEMs and not because they are super hi-fi but because they just sound right and do a lot of things well with all genres. 

The Comfobuds Pro are really nice and have very nice ANC, Ambient, EQ and call quality. The Shure TW2 are just better sound wise but I could live with either. 
The price difference though can be justified because with the Shure TW2 you're getting the TW2 adapters and the SE215 so it's more of a full system that you can always upgrade down the road and you're not limited to Shure IEMs to go along with the TW2.


----------



## erockg (Dec 27, 2021)

Tommy C said:


> No point getting the Shure TW1 even at half-price IMO. The old model does phone calls in mono and stored tracks on your device to sound at best have to be played from the Shure app and also early batches had battery drain issues. All these were fixed with the TW2.
> In terms of sound quality and as mentioned previously, I bought them with the SE215 Special Edition and it's the closest thing in my stable for wired IEMs and not because they are super hi-fi but because they just sound right and do a lot of things well with all genres.
> 
> The Comfobuds Pro are really nice and have very nice ANC, Ambient, EQ and call quality. The Shure TW2 are just better sound wise but I could live with either.
> The price difference though can be justified because with the Shure TW2 you're getting the TW2 adapters and the SE215 so it's more of a full system that you can always upgrade down the road and you're not limited to Shure IEMs to go along with the TW2.


I've had them both and I can for sure say the TW2 second gen are better than the first gen.  DEFINITELY not worth getting the first gen even for half price IMO.  Shure fixed all the bugs with the second gen.  I also just picked up the UTWS5 and that works great too, but no transparency mode or EQ for them on iOS.  If @guitarizt isn't just a clever name, you need to at least try the Shure adapters v2


----------



## erockg

jant71 said:


> Can't go wrong with the Blessing 2. SQ, value, looks with the color faceplates though maybe you'd want the bass of the Dusk...


Based on my obsessive research and what sound I seem to prefer, I bought the Variations this weekend.  Looking forward to receiving.  FA9s went back.  Something about the sound is just too warm.  Soundstage was great, but other than that, they were a little boring.  The Thieaudio Legacy 4 are still here and they're very nice IEM for the buck.  They have decent sub-bass with punch, great fit although the mids might be just a tad too high for me.  Like you mentioned, I did wind up ordering the Fiio FH9 to try out.  Very curious if they're any better than the FA9 series.  While using the Thieaudio and Fiio IEMs with the UTWS5 adapters I must say, the SE846 I have on the Shure TW2 second gen adapters still blow them away.  Sound clarity, instrument separation, bass (could be the EQ) sounds so much better to me on the Shure setup.  

Amazing how much better an IEM with a TWS adapter is over a straight TWS.  The convenience of a TWS is still great, but honestly, I haven't picked up a TWS indoors at home for days.


----------



## erockg

erockg said:


> Based on my obsessive research and what sound I seem to prefer, I bought the Variations this weekend.  Looking forward to receiving.  FA9s went back.  Something about the sound is just too warm.  Soundstage was great, but other than that, they were a little boring.  The Thieaudio Legacy 4 are still here and they're very nice IEM for the buck.  They have decent sub-bass with punch, great fit although the mids might be just a tad too high for me.  Like you mentioned, I did wind up ordering the Fiio FH9 to try out.  Very curious if they're any better than the FA9 series.  While using the Thieaudio and Fiio IEMs with the UTWS5 adapters I must say, the SE846 I have on the Shure TW2 second gen adapters still blow them away.  Sound clarity, instrument separation, bass (could be the EQ) sounds so much better to me on the Shure setup.
> 
> Amazing how much better an IEM with a TWS adapter is over a straight TWS.  The convenience of a TWS is still great, but honestly, I haven't picked up a TWS indoors at home for days.


I'm listening to the below track right know to drown out Paw Patrol and wow, the Thieaudio Legacy 4s are really opening up.  I mean, I'm getting the chills.  Impressive IEMs.


----------



## jant71 (Dec 27, 2021)

VibrantHarmonics said:


> One thing that is a deal breaker about the Fiil T2 Pro, is that it doesn't have AptX. Is there maybe an alternative to the Fiil T2 Pro? Or should I wait for CES 2022 to see new products?



Good at this time to wait and see but it is not like the Fiil are that expensive though. Plus stuff is announced but that doesn't mean it is coming out right away. Some but still a decent wait for much of the stuff.

Speaking of CES, it is chaos due to Covid as the companies are dropping out  left and right. It will a zoom thing again at this rate. 



erockg said:


> Based on my obsessive research and what sound I seem to prefer, I bought the Variations this weekend.  Looking forward to receiving.  FA9s went back.  Something about the sound is just too warm.  Soundstage was great, but other than that, they were a little boring.  The Thieaudio Legacy 4 are still here and they're very nice IEM for the buck.  They have decent sub-bass with punch, great fit although the mids might be just a tad too high for me.  Like you mentioned, I did wind up ordering the Fiio FH9 to try out.  Very curious if they're any better than the FA9 series.  While using the Thieaudio and Fiio IEMs with the UTWS5 adapters I must say, the SE846 I have on the Shure TW2 second gen adapters still blow them away.  Sound clarity, instrument separation, bass (could be the EQ) sounds so much better to me on the Shure setup.
> 
> Amazing how much better an IEM with a TWS adapter is over a straight TWS.  The convenience of a TWS is still great, but honestly, I haven't picked up a TWS indoors at home for days.


Hope it works out. As for the Shure, it may just be better or have you tried other devices and see if there is any difference? Wonder where the hell Westone is. I know they got taken over but time for competing products. Maybe at CES.

And even semi-wired stuff is still a bit better. Need to try my Sport90BT vs. the CKS50TW. Sport90 has beaten out all the other TWS even w/o aptX. They just put good drivers and a nice chip in there. One of the AK4XXX series. Also has on board memeory which is what these adapters have got to do. There is as much room in the adapters than in the Sport90BT so put some memory in there as well. Maybe a new set of Shure adapters with ANC, ambient, 8GB memory, aptX Loseless, and 18 hours of battery


----------



## erockg

jant71 said:


> Good at this time to wait and see but it is not like the Fiil are that expensive though. Plus stuff is announced but that doesn't mean it is coming out right away. Some but still a decent wait for much of the stuff.
> 
> Speaking of CES, it is chaos due to Covid as the companies are dropping out  left and right. It will a zoom thing again at this rate.
> 
> ...


Hopefully Lucid does Westone some justice or maybe they just wanted the tech.  

I'll try the Shure buds with the Fiio adapters and see if I notice a difference.  Fiio really needs to add passthrough to the UTWS5.  That would be awesome.  

The passive isolation is so good with the SE846, I don't even know if I'd notice a huge difference with ANC.  

Those CKS50TW have multi-point.  I didn't realize when I bought them!  Works well between my iPhone and iPad.


----------



## Luchyres

erockg said:


> Hopefully Lucid does Westone some justice or maybe they just wanted the tech.
> 
> I'll try the Shure buds with the Fiio adapters and see if I notice a difference.  Fiio really needs to add passthrough to the UTWS5.  That would be awesome.
> 
> ...


These CKS50TW are piquing my interest. May I ask; do they have an app that allows for customizing EQ and, if so, how well do they respond to adjustments? TIA!


----------



## erockg

Luchyres said:


> These CKS50TW are piquing my interest. May I ask; do they have an app that allows for customizing EQ and, if so, how well do they respond to adjustments? TIA!


Yep, there is an app.  It's not the greatest for connection speed but it does work.  It prompted me for a firmware update when I first paired them.  Updated fast.  There are EQ presets or you can customize.  Mind you, they aren't high end, but for the price they're a very good value.  I'm enjoying them for when I need to block out family chaos


----------



## dweaver (Dec 27, 2021)

Flossy Carter review of the AZ60 and 40.


----------



## erockg

erockg said:


> Hopefully Lucid does Westone some justice or maybe they just wanted the tech.
> 
> I'll try the Shure buds with the Fiio adapters and see if I notice a difference.  Fiio really needs to add passthrough to the UTWS5.  That would be awesome.
> 
> ...


So the SE846 with the UTWS5 sound really really great.  I think the Fiio adapters push more power into the SE846 and you definitely do not need EQ.  If I turn off the EQ on the Shure adapters, have to push the volume up to get close (but not enough) of the same volume as the Fiio.  With the Fiio adapters using the SE846, I can leave the EQ off and you can really hear the instrument separation on the Shure IEMs.  I guess that extra power really helps.  Maybe Shure limits the power output for US standard reasons.  I'd say if you want EQ, pass-through and in my opinion a better snug fit, get the Shure TW2 with some Shure buds.  If you want more power, wireless charging, go with the Fiio.  The Fiio app is finicky, whereas the Shure app is much more refined.  I have zero issues with it.  Also, maybe because I have the 2 Pin and MMCX versions of the Fiio, they keep trying to connect at times when they're in the case and BOTH connected to my iPhone.  Trying to figure out why.  Still having fun over here but these are some observations.  For those not wanting to shell out 900 bucks for the SE846, I can wholeheartedly say these Thieaudio L4s are pretty damn awesome at 200 bucks, but you'll need a 2-pin adapter.  Outside of maybe instrument separation, I probably wouldn't have even purchased the SE846 buds after listening to these for the holiday weekend.  The L4s have more sub-bass, soundstage is comparable.  Good stuff for sure.   

To sum it up and maybe repeat thoughts...  If you want TWS adapters and have no need for pass-through and a very refined app for EQ (and probably other things I'm forgetting), get the Fiio and pair them with some sick IEMs, call it a day.  No need to get something like the SE846.  If you do want those things (personally, I'm a passthrough addict), then get the Shure TW2 second gen).


----------



## erockg

dweaver said:


> Glossy Carter review of the AZ60 and 40.



For the amount of times he says everything is a major major major go, I just can't always trust him anymore.  Sorry Floss!


----------



## xSDMx

erockg said:


> So the SE846 with the UTWS5 sound really really great.  I think the Fiio adapters push more power into the SE846 and you definitely do not need EQ.  If I turn off the EQ on the Shure adapters, have to push the volume up to get close (but not enough) of the same volume as the Fiio.  With the Fiio adapters using the SE846, I can leave the EQ off and you can really hear the instrument separation on the Shure IEMs.  I guess that extra power really helps.  Maybe Shure limits the power output for US standard reasons.  I'd say if you want EQ, pass-through and in my opinion a better snug fit, get the Shure TW2 with some Shure buds.  If you want more power, wireless charging, go with the Fiio.  The Fiio app is finicky, whereas the Shure app is much more refined.  I have zero issues with it.  Also, maybe because I have the 2 Pin and MMCX versions of the Fiio, they keep trying to connect at times when they're in the case and BOTH connected to my iPhone.  Trying to figure out why.  Still having fun over here but these are some observations.  For those not wanting to shell out 900 bucks for the SE846, I can wholeheartedly say these Thieaudio L4s are pretty damn awesome at 200 bucks, but you'll need a 2-pin adapter.  Outside of maybe instrument separation, I probably wouldn't have even purchased the SE846 buds after listening to these for the holiday weekend.  The L4s have more sub-bass, soundstage is comparable.  Good stuff for sure.
> 
> To sum it up and maybe repeat thoughts...  If you want TWS adapters and have no need for pass-through and a very refined app for EQ (and probably other things I'm forgetting), get the Fiio and pair them with some sick IEMs, call it a day.  No need to get something like the SE846.  If you do want those things (personally, I'm a passthrough addict), then get the Shure TW2 second gen).


Glad I'm not alone re: the connection in case issue. I reported the same issue with my UTWS5 in the UTWS5 thread. I'm also using them with the SE846 and the SQ is excellent. But lots of little bugs, IMHO.


----------



## erockg

xSDMx said:


> Glad I'm not alone re: the connection in case issue. I reported the same issue with my UTWS5 in the UTWS5 thread. I'm also using them with the SE846 and the SQ is excellent. But lots of little bugs, IMHO.


Ah cool.  I didn't check that other thread.  I just reset both pairs and will give it another go.  Maybe there's a firmware update in the future to fix this.  

Loving them with the SE846.  Still love the Shure adapters, but I do have to EQ them and pump up the db to hit the Fiio sound.


----------



## erockg (Dec 27, 2021)

erockg said:


> Ah cool.  I didn't check that other thread.  I just reset both pairs and will give it another go.  Maybe there's a firmware update in the future to fix this.
> 
> Loving them with the SE846.  Still love the Shure adapters, but I do have to EQ them and pump up the db to hit the Fiio sound.


@xSDMx found your thread.  I'll chime in and stir the pot 

Did you get the beta?  I'll have to ask to try that.


----------



## Earl of Bouillon

Does anyone have experience with the JVC HA-FW1000T?


----------



## Ceeluh7

Earl of Bouillon said:


> Does anyone have experience with the JVC HA-FW1000T?


I was just looking at those... $349 ON Amazon. There doesn't seem to be any reviews out yet, at least none that I have found


----------



## BooleanBones (Dec 27, 2021)

Ceeluh7 said:


> I was just looking at those... $349 ON Amazon. There doesn't seem to be any reviews out yet, at least none that I have found


Aren't these the US version of the Victors (FW1000T)? @jant71 and a few others posted thoughts on those.


----------



## erockg

BooleanBones said:


> Aren't these the US version of the Victors (FW1000T)? @jant71 and a few others posted thoughts on those.


Was thinking the same thing.  Looks like the US version.


----------



## erockg

BooleanBones said:


> Aren't these the US version of the Victors (FW1000T)? @jant71 and a few others posted thoughts on those.


@jant71 is pretty much a clairvoyant and knows about stuff we never see coming.


----------



## BooleanBones

BooleanBones said:


> Aren't these the US version of the Victors (FW1000T)? @jant71 and a few others posted thoughts on those.


Sorry, in looking, think it might of been @darveniza that got them initially. Maybe both.


----------



## darveniza

BooleanBones said:


> Sorry, in looking, think it might of been @darveniza that got them initially. Maybe both.


That may be for the Western market , in a blog I read that tunings we're different. The on s I got from Japan have Victor on the nameplate and JVC Victor within box. Would recommend these , however as I mentioned in my review no app but a lot of functions that are shown on their website , also included that link on a past thread


----------



## BooleanBones

darveniza said:


> That may be for the Western market , in a blog I read that tunings we're different. The on s I got from Japan have Victor on the nameplate and JVC Victor within box. Would recommend these , however as I mentioned in my review no app but a lot of functions that are shown on their website , also included that link on a past thread


Yep, that is the post that made me think of mentioning that.


----------



## Tommy C

erockg said:


> So the SE846 with the UTWS5 sound really really great.  I think the Fiio adapters push more power into the SE846 and you definitely do not need EQ.  If I turn off the EQ on the Shure adapters, have to push the volume up to get close (but not enough) of the same volume as the Fiio.  With the Fiio adapters using the SE846, I can leave the EQ off and you can really hear the instrument separation on the Shure IEMs.  I guess that extra power really helps.  Maybe Shure limits the power output for US standard reasons.  I'd say if you want EQ, pass-through and in my opinion a better snug fit, get the Shure TW2 with some Shure buds.  If you want more power, wireless charging, go with the Fiio.  The Fiio app is finicky, whereas the Shure app is much more refined.  I have zero issues with it.  Also, maybe because I have the 2 Pin and MMCX versions of the Fiio, they keep trying to connect at times when they're in the case and BOTH connected to my iPhone.  Trying to figure out why.  Still having fun over here but these are some observations.  For those not wanting to shell out 900 bucks for the SE846, I can wholeheartedly say these Thieaudio L4s are pretty damn awesome at 200 bucks, but you'll need a 2-pin adapter.  Outside of maybe instrument separation, I probably wouldn't have even purchased the SE846 buds after listening to these for the holiday weekend.  The L4s have more sub-bass, soundstage is comparable.  Good stuff for sure.
> 
> To sum it up and maybe repeat thoughts...  If you want TWS adapters and have no need for pass-through and a very refined app for EQ (and probably other things I'm forgetting), get the Fiio and pair them with some sick IEMs, call it a day.  No need to get something like the SE846.  If you do want those things (personally, I'm a passthrough addict), then get the Shure TW2 second gen).


Thanks for this. I’m really enjoying the TW2 even with the stock SE215 and still looking at the UTWS5 but all these small bugs you have mentioned getting me worried because the TW2 is super reliable and work like a clock every single time, so I think I’m ok sacrificing a little power for better reliability and overall a more polished product.


----------



## erockg

Tommy C said:


> Thanks for this. I’m really enjoying the TW2 even with the stock SE215 and still looking at the UTWS5 but all these small bugs you have mentioned getting me worried because the TW2 is super reliable and work like a clock every single time, so I think I’m ok sacrificing a little power for better reliability and overall a more polished product.


I think you made a solid choice.  But if you get that wild hair and want to try other great IEMs, you’ll enjoy the adapter/IEM world even more with the Fiio, TRN or the like adapters.  🤘


----------



## xSDMx

erockg said:


> I think you made a solid choice.  But if you get that wild hair and want to try other great IEMs, you’ll enjoy the adapter/IEM world even more with the Fiio, TRN or the like adapters.  🤘


I might finally try the TW2. Even if they have a large case and no wireless charging. What's the pairing process like? The manual made it seem like you need to power off the earhooks first before manually re-entering pairing mode. How quickly can you switch between source devices?


----------



## erockg

xSDMx said:


> I might finally try the TW2. Even if they have a large case and no wireless charging. What's the pairing process like? The manual made it seem like you need to power off the earhooks first before manually re-entering pairing mode. How quickly can you switch between source devices?


I have them paired to my iPhone, Mac, Apple TV and iPad.  As long as you're not playing anything, you can just go into your BT setting and tap on them and they'll force connect to the new device that they were paired to.  Not sure if that makes sense, but it's sort of a manual multi-pairing process.


----------



## TK33 (Dec 27, 2021)

xSDMx said:


> I might finally try the TW2. Even if they have a large case and no wireless charging. What's the pairing process like? The manual made it seem like you need to power off the earhooks first before manually re-entering pairing mode. How quickly can you switch between source devices?


I left mine at the office and we recently shut down due to Omicron and the holidays so it will be a while before I can use my TW2 again but, from what I recall, that process is for the initial pairing only.  Once paired, it is pretty easy.  You just need to go to Bluetooth settings on your source (that was previously paired) and select the TW2 and it will switch (I use a Pixel 6; OnePlus 8T, V60 and a Dell XPS laptop so all Android/Windows PC). No need to enter pairing mode every time you want to switch devices.

Agree with the others, that the TW2 just works as advertised.  I also use the Aonic 50 on a daily basis (same app) and the app works really well for both.  I have never had an issue connecting to the TW2 or Aonic 50 or controlling any of the functions.

EDIT: what @erockg said above.


----------



## xSDMx

Amazing! Thanks, @TK33 and @erockg that sounds PERFECT!


----------



## erockg

xSDMx said:


> Amazing! Thanks, @TK33 and @erockg that sounds PERFECT!


Just make sure you get the 2nd Gen and you have your SE846s so you only need the adapters.


----------



## Ceeluh7

Tommy C said:


> Thanks for this. I’m really enjoying the TW2 even with the stock SE215 and still looking at the UTWS5 but all these small bugs you have mentioned getting me worried because the TW2 is super reliable and work like a clock every single time, so I think I’m ok sacrificing a little power for better reliability and overall a more polished product.


The tw2 do look nice. As far as the utws5, I haven't had these issues. I'm sure some have and may be a bit buggy for some but mine have worked wonderfully thus far. Contemplating picking up the tw2's as well but I am more than happy with the Fiio set, they are really great man


----------



## erockg

Ceeluh7 said:


> The tw2 do look nice. As far as the utws5, I haven't had these issues. I'm sure some have and may be a bit buggy for some but mine have worked wonderfully thus far. Contemplating picking up the tw2's as well but I am more than happy with the Fiio set, they are really great man


Famous last words, but I'm not having any issues since a factory reset.  I do wish I had an Android phone to install that beta which has ambient mode!  Blah.


----------



## Ultrainferno

In @Aerosphere 's last article of the year, we check out the Nuarl N10 PRO. Find out how the Nuarl N10 pro performs and compares, now on Headfonia!

https://www.headfonia.com/nuarl-n10-pro-review/


----------



## zeinharis

Ultrainferno said:


> In @Aerosphere 's last article of the year, we check out the Nuarl N10 PRO. Find out how the Nuarl N10 pro performs and compares, now on Headfonia!
> 
> https://www.headfonia.com/nuarl-n10-pro-review/



Too bad they are plague with bad Bluetooth connection, even my local Nuarl dealers had to stop selling them.


----------



## Ceeluh7

erockg said:


> Famous last words, but I'm not having any issues since a factory reset.  I do wish I had an Android phone to install that beta which has ambient mode!  Blah.


Dude, I haven't really gone too in depth in my searching but where are these beta upgrades? I only see a firmware upgrade thru the app, which I am updated to the latest. I checked the Fiio site under "service" and the firmware and I don't see the utws5? I'm sure I'm missing something and have only tiny little chunks of time to do what I want..... 3 kids ❤️.... Any help would be awesome


----------



## erockg

Ceeluh7 said:


> Dude, I haven't really gone too in depth in my searching but where are these beta upgrades? I only see a firmware upgrade thru the app, which I am updated to the latest. I checked the Fiio site under "service" and the firmware and I don't see the utws5? I'm sure I'm missing something and have only tiny little chunks of time to do what I want..... 3 kids ❤️.... Any help would be awesome


You have to ask them for it and I think it’s only for android. Sadly, I’m on iOS.  Here’s the link to that thread: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/fii...ed-with-independent-ak4332-dac.959856/page-39


----------



## guitarizt

erockg said:


> I've had them both and I can for sure say the TW2 second gen are better than the first gen.  DEFINITELY not worth getting the first gen even for half price IMO.  Shure fixed all the bugs with the second gen.  I also just picked up the UTWS5 and that works great too, but no transparency mode or EQ for them on iOS.  If @guitarizt isn't just a clever name, you need to at least try the Shure adapters v2


Thanks, I'll think about pulling the trigger on them. It's weird cause a lot of reviews on yt and from searching google are meh about them, but headfi seems like the gold standard. This site pointed me to the srh-840s, and looks like it's pointing me to the aonic 215 tw2's. The only other thing is the technic az60s. Idk how to decide. =[


----------



## Ceeluh7

erockg said:


> You have to ask them for it and I think it’s only for android. Sadly, I’m on iOS.  Here’s the link to that thread: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/fii...ed-with-independent-ak4332-dac.959856/page-39


Appreciate this. I will find out at some point today. Thanks man


----------



## erockg

guitarizt said:


> Thanks, I'll think about pulling the trigger on them. It's weird cause a lot of reviews on yt and from searching google are meh about them, but headfi seems like the gold standard. This site pointed me to the srh-840s, and looks like it's pointing me to the aonic 215 tw2's. The only other thing is the technic az60s. Idk how to decide. =[


I use my TW2 second gen with the SE846s and they blow away the AZ60s.  I did have the AZ60 and 70s for a short time and let them go.  The 60s, for me, had a lot of sibilance that I did try to EQ out, but to no avail.  I do think there are better options out there for a straight TWS set.  Really depends on what is most important to you.  Sound, ANC, or mic for calls.


----------



## erockg

Ceeluh7 said:


> Appreciate this. I will find out at some point today. Thanks man


Happy to help   I just want that ambient mode then these things will get closer to what the TW2s are.


----------



## Tommy C

erockg said:


> Happy to help   I just want that ambient mode then these things will get closer to what the TW2s are.



The adjustable ambient mode on the TW2 is very well executed and super clean. I also appreciate the auto on/off when you play and pause - very useful.


----------



## erockg

Tommy C said:


> The adjustable ambient mode on the TW2 is very well executed and super clean. I also appreciate the auto on/off when you play and pause - very useful.


Totally agree.  Those are two of my favorite features on them!


----------



## Tommy C

guitarizt said:


> Thanks, I'll think about pulling the trigger on them. It's weird cause a lot of reviews on yt and from searching google are meh about them, but headfi seems like the gold standard. This site pointed me to the srh-840s, and looks like it's pointing me to the aonic 215 tw2's. The only other thing is the technic az60s. Idk how to decide. =[


In a nutshell it really all depends on what you want and need. 
The good: They are very comfortable and secure, ambient mode works perfectly, they are doing well for phone calls and the app with the EQ and customizable controls is great. They also have physical buttons so I like this much better than touch controls.  
The bad: They have ear hooks, no ANC and the case is very big. The default option will be to get them with the SE215 and they sound good, like wired SE215 but it's not a game changer but definitely respectable in  the TES realm.  

Once you pair them with better IEMs you will be hard pressed finding any TWS to sound that good.


----------



## Aevum

im tempted, i have a pair of UE900´s sitting there doing nothing.


----------



## Ceeluh7

erockg said:


> Totally agree.  Those are two of my favorite features on them!


Those are some great features for sure. The tw2 is very tempting, if I didn't already own 2 pairs of utws3 and the 2 pin utws5 I would have already purchased the tw2. I'm hoping the ambient mode of utws5 is at least halfway usable in the near future. I really like the tonality of the internal dac and the power on these lil fellas and haven't had any issues with them yet.... Thankfully. For over $200 usd the tw2's are a bit more pricey but I do love the Shure app and I'm sure they nailed it tonality wise, plus the well working features. Nice! This group is toxic man.. Lol...


----------



## tinyman392

Aevum said:


> im tempted, i have a pair of UE900´s sitting there doing nothing.


They work well with both the Fiio UTWS3 and TRN BT20S. I haven’t tested with the UTWS5 and BT30.


----------



## erockg

Ceeluh7 said:


> Those are some great features for sure. The tw2 is very tempting, if I didn't already own 2 pairs of utws3 and the 2 pin utws5 I would have already purchased the tw2. I'm hoping the ambient mode of utws5 is at least halfway usable in the near future. I really like the tonality of the internal dac and the power on these lil fellas and haven't had any issues with them yet.... Thankfully. For over $200 usd the tw2's are a bit more pricey but I do love the Shure app and I'm sure they nailed it tonality wise, plus the well working features. Nice! This group is toxic man.. Lol...


 I bought both the 2 Pin and the MMCX UTWS5s.  But I ordered that MMCX to 2 Pin adapter so if that works well and doesn't feel too long, I may not need both.  I do also have the Shure TW2 but a while back I tried the adapter on them and it just made the fit wonky.  I bet you can flip those UTWS3s if you wanted on eBay or someplace if you wanted.  How do you think I keep my addition going?!  I'm still rockin' the UTWS5's today with those Thieaudio L4s and man, they really do shine in a way nothing comes close.  I do love my SE846 but the L4s are just not as intrusive in my ears.  The only TWS imo that comes close is the Noble Fokus Pro, which are just sick.  Really hope that's where they all head.  Moondrop, Thieaudio and the like need to create some pure IEMs that are TW like the Fokus.  They can all compete to make the perfect bud.  One can dream?


----------



## xSDMx

The TW2 without an IEM are only $189.99 😉


----------



## erockg

xSDMx said:


> The TW2 without an IEM are only $189.99 😉


Enabler.  Do it!


----------



## Tommy C

Aevum said:


> im tempted, i have a pair of UE900´s sitting there doing nothing.



I have a set of UE900 almost new sitting in the drawer. Was planning to pair them with the TW2 but been so busy nowadays so it will have to wait a bit but I can give it a try soon and let you know.


----------



## Tommy C

xSDMx said:


> The TW2 without an IEM are only $189.99 😉



That's steep. I bought mine off Amazon Canada with the SE215 Special Edition for $160 USD.


----------



## tinyman392

Tommy C said:


> That's steep. I bought mine off Amazon Canada with the SE215 Special Edition for $160 USD.


That might be the TW1.


----------



## Tommy C

tinyman392 said:


> That might be the TW1.



You mean I might have bought the TW1?


----------



## erockg

Tommy C said:


> You mean I might have bought the TW1?


I don't think so.  Didn't you post a picture?  I swear the box said Gen 2.  Amazon does this every now and then where they'll blow out a deal.  Happens on some buds.  For instance, I grabbed the Marshall Mode II for 140 and now they're 179.  No rhyme or reason.  Amazon just undercuts at times.  Maybe they had a ton of overstock and some algorithm dropped the price.  Who knows!


----------



## Tommy C (Dec 28, 2021)

erockg said:


> I don't think so.  Didn't you post a picture?  I swear the box said Gen 2.  Amazon does this every now and then where they'll blow out a deal.  Happens on some buds.  For instance, I grabbed the Marshall Mode II for 140 and now they're 179.  No rhyme or reason.  Amazon just undercuts at times.  Maybe they had a ton of overstock and some algorithm dropped the price.  Who knows!



Yeah, for sure. The photo I took when I got it said Gen 2 and Amazon Canada is still running this promo for the SE215 and Special Edition.
Price is obviously in Canadian $$$.  It's being shipped from an Amazon warehouse in Manitoba which isn't that common bases on my experience so might be an overstock, who knows.


----------



## erockg

Tommy C said:


> Yeah, for sure. The photo I took when I got it said Gen 2 and Amazon Canada is still running this promo for the SE215 and Special Edition.
> Price is obviously in Canadian $$$.  It's being shipped from an Amazon warehouse in Manitoba which isn't that common bases on my experience so might be an overstock, who knows.


$229 is retail here in the US.


----------



## guitarizt (Dec 28, 2021)

erockg said:


> I bought both the 2 Pin and the MMCX UTWS5s.  But I ordered that MMCX to 2 Pin adapter so if that works well and doesn't feel too long, I may not need both.  I do also have the Shure TW2 but a while back I tried the adapter on them and it just made the fit wonky.  I bet you can flip those UTWS3s if you wanted on eBay or someplace if you wanted.  How do you think I keep my addition going?!  *I'm still rockin' the UTWS5's today with those Thieaudio L4s and man, they really do shine in a way nothing comes close.  I do love my SE846 but the L4s are just not as intrusive in my ears.*  The only TWS imo that comes close is the Noble Fokus Pro, which are just sick.  Really hope that's where they all head.  Moondrop, Thieaudio and the like need to create some pure IEMs that are TW like the Fokus.  They can all compete to make the perfect bud.  One can dream?


This tempts me cause it's only about $350, and you're comparing them to the se846 which I can't justify buying, but I was always curious how buds in that price range sounded. Maybe I should go UTGWS5 + L4 > aonic 215 tw2? I just read an earlier post where you said it matters what I want, and really I'm going down the rabbit hole and just want pure sound quality and what's best. I use my cheap letscomm ones for calls and jogging. I can use my galaxy buds+ for the same if I don't want to look weird with hook + wired bt buds, and I just want something that sounds good now. It's driving me crazy, I listen to music and podcasts 30+ hours a week, and I feel picky but I was able to stick with my shure srh-840 over the ear headphones for prob 10 years or so with no desire to upgrade.


xSDMx said:


> The TW2 without an IEM are only $189.99 😉


That seems crazy expensive to me because you can get the tw2 + iems for $229 usd. I saw the canada deal post, but it's always been $229 since oct according to the price tracker I use with amazon here in the us. That being said, anything 375 and under I'm not too concerned about as long as I like the sound, which is impossible to tell! =[


----------



## erockg

guitarizt said:


> This tempts me cause it's only about $350, and you're comparing them to the se846 which I can't justify buying atm. I was always curious how buds in that price range sounded. Maybe I should go UTGWS5 + L4 > aonic 215 tw2?
> 
> That seems crazy expensive to me because you can get the tw2 + iems for $229 usd. I saw the canada deal post, but it's always been $229 since oct according to the price tracker I use with amazon here in the us. That being said, anything 375 and under I'm not too concerned about as long as I like the sound, which is impossible to tell! =[


Really depends on what features you want.  I have both setups.  The L4s do sound much better than the SE215.  So if you don't care about the little features of the TW2 and are willing to deal with the little bugs the UTWS5 have at times, then your best value might be the latter and a pair of great 2-pin or MMCX IEMs, whichever you get (2 Pin or MMCX).


----------



## guitarizt

erockg said:


> Really depends on what features you want.  I have both setups.  The L4s do sound much better than the SE215.  So if you don't care about the little features of the TW2 and are willing to deal with the little bugs the UTWS5 have at times, then your best value might be the latter and a pair of great 2-pin or MMCX IEMs, whichever you get (2 Pin or MMCX).


Ah yes this is it then. It's just crazy to compare a $350 setup to a $1k one imo. Should I go for the legacy 5? Also I'm guessing go 2 pin, or would there be an advantage to going mmcx and I think getting a 2 pin adapter?


----------



## Tommy C

erockg said:


> $229 is retail here in the US.



We always get shafted with prices north of the border but you can find good deals. Like the AZ60 when they go on sale in Canada for $200 CAD it's about $130 USD. 
Our dollar sucks... I remember the days they were almost par or higher and I used to buy a bunch of useless crap from the States just because it was cheaper.


----------



## Ynot1

Based on the image of Shure Aonic, Shure should attach the wireless adapter to the end of a sunglasses. There are so many sunglasses companies out there. Maybe a neoprene sleeve can couple them together.


----------



## jant71

zeinharis said:


> Too bad they are plague with bad Bluetooth connection, even my local Nuarl dealers had to stop selling them.


We know about the N10 Pro and late on a review since nobody in here wants those at this point. If you aren't looking to the future like the two new Nuarl, tentatively X47 and X77, and other CES stuff you are not caught up to us.



BooleanBones said:


> Aren't these the US version of the Victors (FW1000T)? @jant71 and a few others posted thoughts on those.


I had the first FX100T model and skipped this one since I did not think the ANC was gonna be very good and the battery life and way they would fit and stick out was not for me. Doesn't sound like they are really great but very very good. Sounds like they have some really nice mids and they fade a bit towards the ends in quality as if they put the good driver in there but didn't put the amplification in there to get the best out of them. Just my thought gathered from what I have read as I have not heard them.


----------



## BooleanBones

Tommy C said:


> We always get shafted with prices north of the border but you can find good deals. Like the AZ60 when they go on sale in Canada for $200 CAD it's about $130 USD.
> Our dollar sucks... I remember the days they were almost par or higher and I used to buy a bunch of useless crap from the States just because it was cheaper.


But at least you have cool names for your dollars.


----------



## erockg

guitarizt said:


> Ah yes this is it then. It's just crazy to compare a $350 setup to a $1k one imo. Should I go for the legacy 5? Also I'm guessing go 2 pin, or would there be an advantage to going mmcx and I think getting a 2 pin adapter?


I did a lot of research and read the L4 were better than the L5.  Take the research for what it's worth.  Really, your ears are what matter.  Too bad you can't just get a few and test them out.  Buy a few from a place with a legit return policy.  I think there are many good 2-pin and MMCX IEMs out there.  Most seem to be 2-pin, but also, some 2-pin have recessed female inputs so you may have issues.  I know the Moondrop Starfield didn't work with my 2-pin.  I know you can use the MMCX to 2-pin adapter and that would solve the issue but add length to the adapter which may or may not be bad.  I'll have my adapter friday so I'll try that out.


----------



## erockg

BooleanBones said:


> But at least you have cool names for your dollars.


Yeah and some days, I'd rather be in Canada.


----------



## zeinharis

jant71 said:


> We know about the N10 Pro and late on a review since nobody in here wants those at this point. If you aren't looking to the future like the two new Nuarl, tentatively X47 and X77, and other CES stuff you are not caught up to us.
> 
> 
> I had the first FX100T model and skipped this one since I did not think the ANC was gonna be very good and the battery life and way they would fit and stick out was not for me. Doesn't sound like they are really great but very very good. Sounds like they have some really nice mids and they fade a bit towards the ends in quality as if they put the good driver in there but didn't put the amplification in there to get the best out of them. Just my thought gathered from what I have read as I have not heard them.



Nuarl Snapdragon sound (X77) VS Nuarl LDAC (X47), this should be interesting.


----------



## BooleanBones

erockg said:


> Yeah and some days, I'd rather be in Canada.


I hear ya there. If it weren’t for the winter…


----------



## erockg

Ynot1 said:


> Based on the image of Shure Aonic, Shure should attach the wireless adapter to the end of a sunglasses. There are so many sunglasses companies out there. Maybe a neoprene sleeve can couple them together.


 I have the Soundcore Frames for that.  Not the best but very very useful at times when you are forced to go on an excursion with a toddler and need your ears to be open.  Plus, Anker sent me a second set of front frames so it's pretty damn cool to swap them for a different look at times.  Cost me 150.


----------



## Ynot1

I just realized these bluetooth wireless adapter don't have ambient mode yet. The Soundcore sacrifices bass I suppose to get ambient pass through for a lack of a better word.


----------



## jant71

Ynot1 said:


> I just realized these bluetooth wireless adapter don't have ambient mode yet. The Soundcore sacrifices bass I suppose to get ambient pass through for a lack of a better word.


Shure just calls it environmental mode but they have it and the FiiO will have it when an update is finished.



zeinharis said:


> Nuarl Snapdragon sound (X77) VS Nuarl LDAC (X47), this should be interesting.


I think the X77 was too early and they didn't give any real details back then. The higher model may just have everything the other has and then some. Outside chance it may be AptX loseless vs. LDAC. We don't know it all just yet.


----------



## Ceeluh7

erockg said:


> I bought both the 2 Pin and the MMCX UTWS5s.  But I ordered that MMCX to 2 Pin adapter so if that works well and doesn't feel too long, I may not need both.  I do also have the Shure TW2 but a while back I tried the adapter on them and it just made the fit wonky.  I bet you can flip those UTWS3s if you wanted on eBay or someplace if you wanted.  How do you think I keep my addition going?!  I'm still rockin' the UTWS5's today with those Thieaudio L4s and man, they really do shine in a way nothing comes close.  I do love my SE846 but the L4s are just not as intrusive in my ears.  The only TWS imo that comes close is the Noble Fokus Pro, which are just sick.  Really hope that's where they all head.  Moondrop, Thieaudio and the like need to create some pure IEMs that are TW like the Fokus.  They can all compete to make the perfect bud.  One can dream?


Ya I bought some time ago some very small mmcx to 2pin adapters and 2 pin to mmcx. It seems the utws5 case gives enough room for it all as long as the Iems aren't too enormous. I have the 2 pin to mmcx adapter on my utws5 with the Fiio FH5 and it just sounds so nice right now man. Actually anything I have put on this set of adapters has given me pretty damn good synergy. I am about to hit the buy now on the Bqeyz Autumn and I am pretty jacked about that. However the TRI I3 Pro is $20 bucks off on Amazon and so I am having a very hard time choosing between the two. Anyways I will likely put one of those on the utws5. As far as reselling... Ya I have sold quite a bit of my addiction on ebay or Facebook marketplace and I agree the Utws3 are going to be in there very soon... I sell em cheap, hopefully someone can get good use out of them. Also, I have been contemplating the Thieaudio L5 as it sells for 249 on Amazon and a renewed set is there for 160ish. This hobby is crazy man. I liked the L4 alot... I wish I hadn't have sold them, they were my favorite thieaudio set for sure so I can understand your joy in them. I am also thinking of the Focus Pro... If you don't mind, where did you purchase them from?


----------



## Ceeluh7

erockg said:


> I don't think so.  Didn't you post a picture?  I swear the box said Gen 2.  Amazon does this every now and then where they'll blow out a deal.  Happens on some buds.  For instance, I grabbed the Marshall Mode II for 140 and now they're 179.  No rhyme or reason.  Amazon just undercuts at times.  Maybe they had a ton of overstock and some algorithm dropped the price.  Who knows!


I passed on the Marshall's, how have you been liking them?


----------



## erockg

Ceeluh7 said:


> Ya I bought some time ago some very small mmcx to 2pin adapters and 2 pin to mmcx. It seems the utws5 case gives enough room for it all as long as the Iems aren't too enormous. I have the 2 pin to mmcx adapter on my utws5 with the Fiio FH5 and it just sounds so nice right now man. Actually anything I have put on this set of adapters has given me pretty damn good synergy. I am about to hit the buy now on the Bqeyz Autumn and I am pretty jacked about that. However the TRI I3 Pro is $20 bucks off on Amazon and so I am having a very hard time choosing between the two. Anyways I will likely put one of those on the utws5. As far as reselling... Ya I have sold quite a bit of my addiction on ebay or Facebook marketplace and I agree the Utws3 are going to be in there very soon... I sell em cheap, hopefully someone can get good use out of them. Also, I have been contemplating the Thieaudio L5 as it sells for 249 on Amazon and a renewed set is there for 160ish. This hobby is crazy man. I liked the L4 alot... I wish I hadn't have sold them, they were my favorite thieaudio set for sure so I can understand your joy in them. I am also thinking of the Focus Pro... If you don't mind, where did you purchase them from?


Ha ha! I have the Autumn our for delivery right now   Will report back.  I almost got the L5s but read that the 4s were better on many sites.  Who knows.  I also have the FH9s coming on Friday.  Trying a bunch out to see what I like for long term.  I got into this a while back with the adapters then stuck with the regular TWS, but man, it's just no contest against most TWS buds.

I'm like you, I don't mind blowing stuff out if I got good use out of them.


----------



## Ceeluh7

erockg said:


> Ha ha! I have the Autumn our for delivery right now   Will report back.  I almost got the L5s but read that the 4s were better on many sites.  Who knows.  I also have the FH9s coming on Friday.  Trying a bunch out to see what I like for long term.  I got into this a while back with the adapters then stuck with the regular TWS, but man, it's just no contest against most TWS buds.
> 
> I'm like you, I don't mind blowing stuff out if I got good use out of them.


I think I will def join you on the Autumn. Really amazing reviews and I love good single DD's. Those magnetic tuning plugs are a nice touxh


----------



## erockg

Ceeluh7 said:


> I passed on the Marshall's, how have you been liking them?


They're so small, which is why I gravitated to them.  Sound is great, better with a little EQ imo.  Case is so small and has wireless charging.  I'm going to use them as an out-and-about pair that are low profile in my ears and pocket.  Had one issue yesterday where one bud showed as dead in the app.  I had to reset and repair and that fixed it.  Not having any issues today, but I'm going to keep an eye on that weird battery drain.  BT has a couple cutouts at times but nothing that seems crazy abnormal yet.  No issues since the reset.  Decent enough on quick phone calls.  No one has complained.  Don't buy them for full price.  I know there's a Honey coupon for the Marshall site if you go that route.  I always go Amazon if I can.


----------



## jant71

erockg said:


> Ha ha! I have the Autumn our for delivery right now   Will report back.  I almost got the L5s but read that the 4s were better on many sites.  Who knows.  I also have the FH9s coming on Friday.  Trying a bunch out to see what I like for long term.  I got into this a while back with the adapters then stuck with the regular TWS, but man, it's just no contest against most TWS buds.
> 
> I'm like you, I don't mind blowing stuff out if I got good use out of them.


Interesting. Got the Autumn as well . I was looking for an L4 / Autumn comparison as that seemed interesting.


----------



## erockg

Ceeluh7 said:


> I think I will def join you on the Autumn. Really amazing reviews and I love good single DD's. Those magnetic tuning plugs are a nice touxh


Yeah, I'm going to do a showdown and see how they compare to the L4 later today.  I'm also looking for a good therapist.  FML.


----------



## erockg

jant71 said:


> Interesting. Got the Autumn as well . I was looking for an L4 / Autumn comparison as that seemed interesting.


You're the one who turned me onto the Autumn.  So I read all the rave reviews.  This is all your fault!


----------



## Ceeluh7

erockg said:


> Yeah, I'm going to do a showdown and see how they compare to the L4 later today.  I'm also looking for a good therapist.  FML.


Bro..... You and me both... This hobby is a constant in my life.... All day. My 6 year old pulls Daddy away alot and I get to be the Boy Barbie for a bit but.... Ya therapist... Lol


----------



## erockg

Ceeluh7 said:


> Bro..... You and me both... This hobby is a constant in my life.... All day. My 6 year old pulls Daddy away alot and I get to be the Boy Barbie for a bit but.... Ya therapist... Lol


Ha ha! Right now we're watching some dumb YouTube channel where someone recorded dinosaurs from I think a Jurassic Park game.  I have to read what they are for him.  He's 3.5.  This was supposed to be my 17 days off in a row for the holidays until Omicron effed daycare out here.  Now it's Daddy Daycare.  But hey, glad I'm not wearing Barbie gear, even if it is a boy!   Soooo... enter stupid headphones and music in between shouting out dino names.  I'm a bad father?


----------



## Ceeluh7

erockg said:


> Ha ha! Right now we're watching some dumb YouTube channel where someone recorded dinosaurs from I think a Jurassic Park game.  I have to read what they are for him.  He's 3.5.  This was supposed to be my 17 days off in a row for the holidays until Omicron effed daycare out here.  Now it's Daddy Daycare.  But hey, glad I'm not wearing Barbie gear, even if it is a boy!   Soooo... enter stupid headphones and music in between shouting out dino names.  I'm a bad father?


Hahhhaa... Lol... No man, that's me dude. So funny. At least you don't have to watch freaking YouTube videos of little girls playing with their Frozen Dolls.... All Day! Kids are hilarious and my kids demand so much attention. I have to sneak in moments to check out Amazon and every other website for tws/iems/dac amps /dongle...... It's a constant. BTW that FH9 looks amazing... I love the Fiio sound. I haven't tried anything in that price range from them yet but I can't imagine you won't love them. Honestly this morning I put on the budget set Fd1 on the utws5 and it sounded absolutely awesome. It just has great synergy for some reason. Maybe the quick beryllium driver... Idk... Really nice.


----------



## erockg

Ceeluh7 said:


> Hahhhaa... Lol... No man, that's me dude. So funny. At least you don't have to watch freaking YouTube videos of little girls playing with their Frozen Dolls.... All Day! Kids are hilarious and my kids demand so much attention. I have to sneak in moments to check out Amazon and every other website for tws/iems/dac amps /dongle...... It's a constant. BTW that FH9 looks amazing... I love the Fiio sound. I haven't tried anything in that price range from them yet but I can't imagine you won't love them. Honestly this morning I put on the budget set Fd1 on the utws5 and it sounded absolutely awesome. It just has great synergy for some reason. Maybe the quick beryllium driver... Idk... Really nice.


Friggin Youtube.. where old men open toys and play with them.  Prob a pedo off the beaten path (no pun intended) trying to get kids to go to his channel.  Crazy how at times they'd rather watch others play with toys instead of playing with the piles of toys they just got for Xmas or Hanukkah.  Whew.  But I'm with you on all accounts.  My wife usually says, you on that forum again?  

I had the FA9 last week and just didn't like them.  I really hope the FA9 crush them.  Oh, and the Moondrop Variations I have arriving.  I truly loved the Blessing 2 and if the bass boost on the Variations is what I love, I know they'll be my go-to.


----------



## jant71

erockg said:


> You're the one who turned me onto the Autumn.  So I read all the rave reviews.  This is all your fault!


----------



## Ceeluh7

erockg said:


> Friggin Youtube.. where old men open toys and play with them.  Prob a pedo off the beaten path (no pun intended) trying to get kids to go to his channel.  Crazy how at times they'd rather watch others play with toys instead of playing with the piles of toys they just got for Xmas or Hanukkah.  Whew.  But I'm with you on all accounts.  My wife usually says, you on that forum again?
> 
> I had the FA9 last week and just didn't like them.  I really hope the FA9 crush them.  Oh, and the Moondrop Variations I have arriving.  I truly loved the Blessing 2 and if the bass boost on the Variations is what I love, I know they'll be my go-to.


The Blessing 2 are very nice, I liked them alot as well. Variations has been hyped as well, for good reason. You should like those alot. I am looking for something in the $150-350 price range at the moment... I was also advised to check out the Yanyin Aladdin, I was told it is in another league of the others I've mentioned. Problem is, that I would have to wait for overseas shipment annnnnd... I just can't do it, to many issues in the past, things get lost all the time, delays... Sucks. So, I like the TRI I3 Pro, Autumn, maybe the KBEAR Aurora, also the Moondrop Kato looks tempting... I'm thinking the Autumn is on top at the moment. Oh and BTW, my wife and I say that everytime we watch the "older dude who plays with toys channel"..... Fricken Pedo... Wth is he doing with his life... Lol. Actually he is prob making BANK off of YouTube... Wth am I doing with my life... Lol


----------



## dweaver (Dec 28, 2021)

erockg said:


> I use my TW2 second gen with the SE846s and they blow away the AZ60s.  I did have the AZ60 and 70s for a short time and let them go.  The 60s, for me, had a lot of sibilance that I did try to EQ out, but to no avail.  I do think there are better options out there for a straight TWS set.  Really depends on what is most important to you.  Sound, ANC, or mic for calls.


The TW2 SE846 combo is a $1000 combo of the Shure flagship IEM so should sound awesome.

I personally have had zero issues with sibilance on my AZ60 @erockg did you modify the tips removing the foam when you had your pair?

But for @guitarizt the real question is how do the AZ60 sound compared to the SRH840. 

From memory my SRH940 had a nice open sound for closed back headphone. From my research and testing in local shops back in the day the 840 was a bit less open sounding. I think it may have had a darker signature as well. Both models were midcentric in signature.

The AZ60 may have to much bass out of the box but it can be tamed with the EQ. The mids are nice and full with great detail and presence with a hint of warmth. The treble it nicely detailed with good shimmer on cymbals without coming across as harsh or strident. For a TWS I think the AZ60 has a decently large sound stage that bests most of the TWS I owned or have owned including the WF-1000XM3, Sennheiser MTW1, CX400BT, Anker Soundcore L2P. The AZ70 also has a large sound stage but is a more mid/treble centric sound signature which may also be an option for you.

The last option I can recommend is the Samsung Buds Pro. They have only average ANC and isolation but their transparent mode is great and they almost no ear pressure by design. Signature wise they are definitely influenced by AKG engineering with solid but controlled bass, excellent mids, and details treble. The sound stage is slightly smaller than both Technics but not enough worry about. They are very comfortable to wear to the point I can more or less side sleep wearing them. But if you use larger tip sizes be prepared to have some 3rd party tips handy as they have on 3 sizes and the large is on the small side. I use large Sony hybrids on my pair.


----------



## dweaver

Tommy C said:


> I have a set of UE900 almost new sitting in the drawer. Was planning to pair them with the TW2 but been so busy nowadays so it will have to wait a bit but I can give it a try soon and let you know.


I loved the UE900 my only issue was the MMCX connectors. If yours are brand new they should be fine. But be careful switching them around to much.


----------



## erockg

dweaver said:


> The TW2 SE846 combo is a $1000 combo of the Shure flagship IEM so should sound awesome.
> 
> I personally have had zero issues with sibilance on my AZ60 @erockg did you modify the tips removing the foam when you had your pair?
> 
> ...


Yup, tried a bunch of tips.  Truly wanted to love them but at the end of the day I had better options in my world.


----------



## chinmie

erockg said:


> Ha ha! Right now we're watching some dumb YouTube channel where someone recorded dinosaurs from I think a Jurassic Park game.  I have to read what they are for him.  He's 3.5.  This was supposed to be my 17 days off in a row for the holidays until Omicron effed daycare out here.  Now it's Daddy Daycare.  But hey, glad I'm not wearing Barbie gear, even if it is a boy!   Soooo... enter stupid headphones and music in between shouting out dino names.  I'm a bad father?



ahh.. the good ol' days...my boy is in high school now, and our favorite son and dad time is bashing each other in a street fighter game


----------



## jant71

erockg said:


> Yup, tried a bunch of tips.  Truly wanted to love them but at the end of the day I had better options in my world.


Now who is enabling.  Poor Dweaver, as I can see in the posts, trying for AZ60 validation to stick with it and be satisfied. That they are good enough. But it seems a losing battle and the upgrade bug is buzzing around his head. A comment like that - will it push him over the edge??


----------



## erockg

chinmie said:


> ahh.. the good ol' days...my boy is in high school now, and our favorite son and dad time is bashing each other in a street fighter game


I truly look forward to those days.  It'll probably be in some Metaverse world.  Ugh.


----------



## dweaver

erockg said:


> Yup, tried a bunch of tips.  Truly wanted to love them but at the end of the day I had better options in my world.


I found the foam in the original tips was there by design and have just used my AZ60 using them without modification. When I switched to other tips the sound was changed to much for my liking. Strangely the worst tip was my usual go to tip, the Sony Hybrid. That tip definitely had sibilance issues for me.

Just switching back and forth between the AZ60 and GBuds Pro and I really like both models. I would say the AZ60 is a bass/mid centric sound and the GBuds Pro is a mid/treble centric sound. With both models having good bass or treble just not quite as prominent.

The GBuds Pro are definitely more comfortable to wear and the AZ60 is definitely more isolating.


----------



## Canabuc

jant71 said:


> Now who is enabling.  Poor Dweaver, as I can see in the posts, trying for AZ60 validation to stick with it and be satisfied. That they are good enough. But it seems a losing battle and the upgrade bug is buzzing around his head. A comment like that - will it push him over the edge??


Now now. I don't hear sibilance either.
These sound fantastic.
I have tried it owned every main stream yes besides the xm4 and these are the best sounding. They have a great fit and the controls and ANC are great.
I just found see the point of spending nearly double for the Sony to get workers charging but losing multipoint and passing nearly double knowing the technology about too evolve in the next year or so given Android 13 supporting new Bluetooth low energy which will make for better battery life connection quality and likely higher res transmission speeds.


----------



## Canabuc

dweaver said:


> I found the foam in the original tips was there by design and have just used my AZ60 using them without modification. When I switched to other tips the sound was changed to much for my liking. Strangely the worst tip was my usual go to tip, the Sony Hybrid. That tip definitely had sibilance issues for me.
> 
> Just switching back and forth between the AZ60 and GBuds Pro and I really like both models. I would say the AZ60 is a bass/mid centric sound and the GBuds Pro is a mid/treble centric sound. With both models having good bass or treble just not quite as prominent.
> 
> The GBuds Pro are definitely more comfortable to wear and the AZ60 is definitely more isolating.



Agree on the sound signature. Disagree on the fit. I do wanted the gbuds pro to work for me but I had literal pain in one ear when wearing them for more than 15 minutes. Tried about 12 different types of tips to no avail. First ever tws I returned for comfort reasons. 
The Technics are a bit of a deeper fit very secure. You feel they are the but no discomfort.


----------



## dweaver

jant71 said:


> Now who is enabling.  Poor Dweaver, as I can see in the posts, trying for AZ60 validation to stick with it and be satisfied. That they are good enough. But it seems a losing battle and the upgrade bug is buzzing around his head. A comment like that - will it push him over the edge??


LOL, I need to win the lottery just so I can listen to other gear to satisfy the curiosity and desire to try something new. Someone needs to design testing website where we pay a fee to test different products LOL.

But I actually do enjoy the AZ60 alot and the GBuds Pro as well. They are both in my wheel house sound wise. I want to try the WF-1000XM4 and MTW2 just to see if reviews are correct about those models being technically better sound wise, or if the reviewers are just showing a bias toward their prefered signature choice.


----------



## erockg

You guys haven't tried something like the Noble Fokus Pro yet.  Once you do, you're heads will explode.   They're not the best, but I'm enjoying the ATH-CKS50TW over the Technics.  Fit, ANC, bass and battery life are better.  I don't use Galaxy buds as I'm in the Apple ecosystem and they just don't play very well IMO.  All this said, I'm all in with the IEM/adapter world.  I think the Fokus are one of the closest TWS to an IEM out there.  Incredibly impressive and powerful.


----------



## Canabuc

I did not like the Sennheiser that much. Some sounds were very good but other tracks it felt like the sound was too warm and vocals sounded wrong.
ANC was garbage as well.


----------



## erockg

dweaver said:


> LOL, I need to win the lottery just so I can listen to other gear to satisfy the curiosity and desire to try something new. Someone needs to design testing website where we pay a fee to test different products LOL.
> 
> But I actually do enjoy the AZ60 alot and the GBuds Pro as well. They are both in my wheel house sound wise. I want to try the WF-1000XM4 and MTW2 just to see if reviews are correct about those models being technically better sound wise, or if the reviewers are just showing a bias toward their prefered signature choice.


Ebay and then Amazon.  That's my deal   The Fokus are pricey but I flipped a few pairs that were getting unused and whew, they are stellar in comparison.  But, hey, different strokes for different folks.


----------



## erockg

Canabuc said:


> I did not like the Sennheiser that much. Some sounds were very good but other tracks it felt like the sound was too warm and vocals sounded wrong.
> ANC was garbage as well.


Agreed!  The new high end tuning helped but they were notoriously low in volume and just way too warm for me.  I tried.  I really did.


----------



## dweaver

Canabuc said:


> Agree on the sound signature. Disagree on the fit. I do wanted the gbuds pro to work for me but I had literal pain in one ear when wearing them for more than 15 minutes. Tried about 12 different types of tips to no avail. First ever tws I returned for comfort reasons.
> The Technics are a bit of a deeper fit very secure. You feel they are the but no discomfort.


The GBuds Pro are very polorizing in their design. For me they fit very well but I can absolutely see them being the opposite for others like yourself. 

Your description of the AZ60 is spot on! That sense of fullness is the reason I give the GBuds Pro a slight edge in comfort as I don't have any sense of that wearing them.


----------



## BooleanBones

dweaver said:


> LOL, I need to win the lottery just so I can listen to other gear to satisfy the curiosity and desire to try something new. Someone needs to design testing website where we pay a fee to test different products LOL.
> 
> But I actually do enjoy the AZ60 alot and the GBuds Pro as well. They are both in my wheel house sound wise. I want to try the WF-1000XM4 and MTW2 just to see if reviews are correct about those models being technically better sound wise, or if the reviewers are just showing a bias toward their prefered signature choice.


To be honest, I would not spend the money on the XM4s if you are happy with the AZ60s and they are comfortable for you. I have both and don't see the real value in snagging the Sony's on top of the AZs. I do like both a lot, but can't say that you will be doing cartwheels if you were to purchase the Sony's on top of what you have. In my opinion, it's an either or scenario with those two and not both (unless you have a collection like @erockg)


----------



## assassin10000

guitarizt said:


> Nope, I'm interested in how they and the bud pros sound. I'm guessing the pro's are the best? I read one reddit review that said all three are fairly similar; if you have one it's not worth getting another.



These are non sealing earbuds and are completely open to the environment. So basically 'always on' ambient mode, as well as being natural sounding vs piped in sound.

Sound is not going to be the same. Sound signature may be similar. That reddit review may have referred to buds, buds+ & buds pro but not the buds live. I've had the buds+ and still have the Live, they sound way different.

If you like earbuds vs iems, you'll probably like these.


----------



## erockg

BooleanBones said:


> To be honest, I would not spend the money on the XM4s if you are happy with the AZ60s and they are comfortable for you. I have both and don't see the real value in snagging the Sony's on top of the AZs. I do like both a lot, but can't say that you will be doing cartwheels if you were to purchase the Sony's on top of what you have. In my opinion, it's an either or scenario with those two and not both (unless you have a collection like @erockg)


I detect mockery.  HAHA.  Jeez, I'm down to only three TWS.  The Fokus, Marshall and the Audio Technics now.  I think.  Let me look around here.  Yup, only those three!  Wait, no, I have a sealed AKG N400 here I was saving to gift someone but tempted to open since I gifted my personal set!


----------



## BooleanBones

erockg said:


> I detect mockery.  HAHA.  Jeez, I'm down to only three TWS.  The Fokus, Marshall and the Audio Technics now.  I think.  Let me look around here.  Yup, only those three!  Wait, no, I have a sealed AKG N400 here I was saving to gift someone but tempted to open since I gifted my personal set!


Thoughts on EQ vs Fokus SQ/volume levels? Same level of “sparkle” in the Fokus? I am chomping at the bit to get another set. Been focused on improving my office speakers and now back to TWS


----------



## erockg

BooleanBones said:


> Thoughts on EQ vs Fokus SQ/volume levels? Same level of “sparkle” in the Fokus? I am chomping at the bit to get another set. Been focused on improving my office speakers and now back to TWS


You're going to laugh, but I flipped my EQ.  After listening to the Fokus, the Fokus just blows them out of the water.  The Fokus get so loud you'll melt your brain listening to Still of the Night.  Coverdale's shriek will scar you for life.  What's funny is that after using these other IEMs I had to EQ the bass down on the Fokus.  Definitely my best sounding TWS.  They are gorgeous too.  Vs the EQ, you're sacrificing the ANC and passthrough, but whew, the sound is so good.  Oh, and you can skip tracks on the Fokus if you care.  For ANC I have AirPods Max and those Audio Technica buds.  Good on the ANC front.  Now focusing on the perfect sound, which I'll never reach, but ya know.  

What speakers did you get.  Oddly enough, I got rid of mine during this WFH life and went with HomePod Minis.  I'm on Zoom calls all the time so the headphones get used more.


----------



## BooleanBones

erockg said:


> What speakers did you get.  Oddly enough, I got rid of mine during this WFH life and went with HomePod Minis.  I'm on Zoom calls all the time so the headphones get used more.


Don’t laugh, but I initially tried two Denon 150s which will peel the eyebrows off your face but didn’t like the lack of stereo airplay from my Apple TV. Landed on two B&W Formation Flex. They are wonderful  looks like I’ll need to get the Fokus on order. As always, thanks for the input bro.


----------



## erockg

BooleanBones said:


> Don’t laugh, but I initially tried two Denon 150s which will peel the eyebrows off your face but didn’t like the lack of stereo airplay from my Apple TV. Landed on two B&W Formation Flex. They are wonderful  looks like I’ll need to get the Fokus on order. As always, thanks for the input bro.


Oh nice.  I Airplay from an ATV to Sonos here.  Set up a projector so I can have a 90 inch image.  Why?  Well, because I _needed_ it.  Duh. 

If you order them, I hope you dig them!


----------



## Tommy C (Dec 28, 2021)

dweaver said:


> I loved the UE900 my only issue was the MMCX connectors. If yours are brand new they should be fine. But be careful switching them around to much.



Yeah, brand new but it's my last set of EU900 
And yes, all had MMCX connectors issues.


----------



## DigDub

The LG tone free fp9. Sounds balanced with a slightly warm signature in the lower mids/upper bass region which makes vocals sound natural. Soundstage has good width and depth. Extremely comfortable and the buds are small and sleek. ANC is not as good as the Sony xm4, but the excellent fit and passive isolation blocks out most external noise. Passthrough is loud enough but sounds a bit metallic. Touch and holding the buds cycle between ANC and passthrough modes, but doesn't cycle to ANC/passthrough off, which is a bummer. To turn off ANC/passthrough, it can only be done in the app. Speaking of the app, it offers various presets and 2 custom EQ, and the ability to customise the touch controls, including volume control.







The case also acts as a Bluetooth transmitter. It works pretty well and is straightforward to use, just flip the switch at the side of the case. The case doesn't have wireless charging. The size of the case is a tad thicker and wider than the current Samsung square case design.


----------



## chinmie

DigDub said:


> The LG tone free fp9. Sounds balanced with a slightly warm signature in the lower mids/upper bass region which makes vocals sound natural. Soundstage has good width and depth. Extremely comfortable and the buds are small and sleek. ANC is not as good as the Sony xm4, but the excellent fit and passive isolation blocks out most external noise. Passthrough is loud enough but sounds a bit metallic. Touch and holding the buds cycle between ANC and passthrough modes, but doesn't cycle to ANC/passthrough off, which is a bummer. To turn off ANC/passthrough, it can only be done in the app. Speaking of the app, it offers various presets and 2 custom EQ, and the ability to customise the touch controls, including volume control.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I'm so tempted just for this transmitter feature alone


----------



## Phaethon

Ceeluh7 said:


> I am also thinking of the Focus Pro... If you don't mind, where did you purchase them from?


I just picked up the Fokus Pros (open box) from Audio46 for $296. https://audio46.com/products/noble-audio-fokus-pro-true-wireless-iems


----------



## dweaver

BooleanBones said:


> To be honest, I would not spend the money on the XM4s if you are happy with the AZ60s and they are comfortable for you. I have both and don't see the real value in snagging the Sony's on top of the AZs. I do like both a lot, but can't say that you will be doing cartwheels if you were to purchase the Sony's on top of what you have. In my opinion, it's an either or scenario with those two and not both (unless you have a collection like @erockg)


Thanks @BooleanBones I agree . I have to be honest. My only reason to try the XM4 or MTW2 is to see if they really are "better" as so many reviewers continue to claim. I honestly suspect they are not "better" just different and depending on your preference will be better or worse...

I have only owned one IEM that managed tight hard booming bass, large sound stage and 3D imaging all in one product and that was the XBA-Z5 using the balanced cable on my Pono Player. It was not a balanced signature, but it was amazing. But that's also a $700 IEM with an expensive (at the time) specialized HIFI player using the balanced cable to achieve the magic.

I have owned 2 different hybrid TWS, and several high end dynamic drivers models and none of them have captured that type of technical ability and at the state of TWS technology today's I don't think any manufacturer can. So then you have to pick you poison. Do you want a large sound stage (AZ60) then you give up a harder hitting bass. Do you want a richer sound (MTW2) then give up a bigger sub-bass  sound. Do you want hard hitting tight bass (WF-1000XM4) then give up the big sound stage and upper treble sparkle.

That's my suspicion anyway as I have not been able to try the MTW2 or WF-1000XM4.


----------



## Aramaki

dweaver said:


> Has anyone tried the WF-C500? Curious how they sound. Reviews suggest they are a brighter signature so might be an interesting no frills TWS if you like Sony sound.


Very good sound for the price.


----------



## xSDMx

dweaver said:


> Thanks @BooleanBones I agree . I have to be honest. My only reason to try the XM4 or MTW2 is to see if they really are "better" as so many reviewers continue to claim. I honestly suspect they are not "better" just different and depending on your preference will be better or worse...
> 
> I have only owned one IEM that managed tight hard booming bass, large sound stage and 3D imaging all in one product and that was the XBA-Z5 using the balanced cable on my Pono Player. It was not a balanced signature, but it was amazing. But that's also a $700 IEM with an expensive (at the time) specialized HIFI player using the balanced cable to achieve the magic.
> 
> ...


I miss my XBA-H3 and I miss my XBA-Z5. Why did I ever sell them... 😟


----------



## dweaver

xSDMx said:


> I miss my XBA-H3 and I miss my XBA-Z5. Why did I ever sell them... 😟


I made the mistake of swapping the cable on my XBA-Z5 causing the right bud to not connect. I tried to fix them and accidentally broke the connector. The most heart breaking and angry moment of my headphone hobby. I now have @ $700 pile of garbage... I have refused to buy an expensive MMCX based IEM since.


----------



## DigDub

chinmie said:


> I'm so tempted just for this transmitter feature alone


Yea it's useful. My PC doesn't have bluetooth and using the case as a transmitter enables wireless high quality listening. Do note that the mic doesn't work in transmitter mode though, the computer detects it as stereo earphones without mic. So you can use the device's built-in mic or plug in a wired mic if you need it for video conferencing.


----------



## Caipirina

Damn you Forum! You made me buy another one!


----------



## guitarizt

assassin10000 said:


> These are non sealing earbuds and are completely open to the environment. So basically 'always on' ambient mode, as well as being natural sounding vs piped in sound.
> 
> Sound is not going to be the same. Sound signature may be similar. That reddit review may have referred to buds, buds+ & buds pro but not the buds live. I've had the buds+ and still have the Live, they sound way different.
> 
> If you like earbuds vs iems, you'll probably like these.


Thanks, I think you're right. My memory is prob off. I never knew the lives were so open to the environment, and I've spent too much time researching lately. Headfi is awesome!


----------



## dweaver

Caipirina said:


> Damn you Forum! You made me buy another one!


How do they sound? I have only tried the ATH CKR7TW which were not great being one of the first attempts at TWS by Audio Technica so returned the pair I bought.


----------



## erockg

So, @Ceeluh7 & @jant71 ... got the Autumn IEMs here.  Mind you, I listen to mostly hard rock.  Going back and forth with the Thieaudio L4.  Both pretty pretty pretty good.  L4 definitely have a better bass slam.  Tight.  Definitely more mids based.  Autumn is warmer.  Still messing with the filters.  Have the bass one in now.  As a result, bass is bigger/wider on the Autumn due to that 13mm dd, opposed to the 7mm on the L4.  I feel it vibrate more with the Autumn.  L4 is tight with punch, more of a snap.  Instrument separation is better on the L4 because of those 3BAs.  I'd say the L4 have a nicer sub-bass.  Autumn are not bad, just different.  The L4s fit me _very_ well.  They're like custom IEMs.  I'd say the soundstage width is comparable to one another.  Vocals on the Autumn are not up front like the L4.  The Autumn IEMs seem to need more volume than the L4 with the Fiio adapters.  Both are really great.  With the normal filter, the Autumn gets closer to the L4.  I still prefer the bass filter.  The Autumn has sound bleed.

All the above said, I've probably done some great burn-in on the L4s because when I first got them, I didn't love them like I do now.  These Autumn may need some burn-in.

I can't help but think the L4s better for what I primarily listen to.  I'm no pro audiophile but the 3 balanced armatures matched with 1 dd on the L4 really adds to the instrument separation and you can definitely tell.

Those are some quick random thoughts.  I'll be comparing and contrasting for few days.


----------



## Ceeluh7

erockg said:


> So, @Ceeluh7 & @jant71 ... got the Autumn IEMs here.  Mind you, I listen to mostly hard rock.  Going back and forth with the Thieaudio L4.  Both pretty pretty pretty good.  L4 definitely have a better bass slam.  Tight.  Definitely more mids based.  Autumn is warmer.  Still messing with the filters.  Have the bass one in now.  As a result, bass is bigger/wider on the Autumn due to that 13mm dd, opposed to the 7mm on the L4.  I feel it vibrate more with the Autumn.  L4 is tight with punch, more of a snap.  Instrument separation is better on the L4 because of those 3BAs.  I'd say the L4 have a nicer sub-bass.  Autumn are not bad, just different.  The L4s fit me _very_ well.  They're like custom IEMs.  I'd say the soundstage width is comparable to one another.  Vocals on the Autumn are not up front like the L4.  The Autumn IEMs seem to need more volume than the L4 with the Fiio adapters.  Both are really great.  With the normal filter, the Autumn gets closer to the L4.  I still prefer the bass filter.  The Autumn has sound bleed.
> 
> All the above said, I've probably done some great burn-in on the L4s because when I first got them, I didn't love them like I do now.  These Autumn may need some burn-in.
> 
> ...


The Autumn most Def need some good clean amping. I think they are 46 ohms. I did read they were slightly bass shy, actually not shy but just tighter, basically when a track calls for it. You are like me... I need bass, but good bass. This is the only thing which is holding me back. I saw BGGAR's video and he needed the Bass filter and I assume I would as well. I read also that technically they are proficient. Decent extension up top as well. I don't know how accurate this is but one reviewer said that the Autumn could be a treble heads fav with the treble filter.... I am not a treble head. I greatly appreciate your thoughts man. They are still on my shortlist for sure


----------



## Ceeluh7

Phaethon said:


> I just picked up the Fokus Pros (open box) from Audio46 for $296. https://audio46.com/products/noble-audio-fokus-pro-true-wireless-iems


Whoa.... Nice job man. Glad you got them so cheap, well cheap compared to the normal $349. I haven't heard them but these look like the best SQ out there for TWS at the moment... Sweet man, enjoy


----------



## Caipirina

dweaver said:


> How do they sound? I have only tried the ATH CKR7TW which were not great being one of the first attempts at TWS by Audio Technica so returned the pair I bought.


Too early to tell, but very first impression is like 'that's what they call Solid Bass?' even with Bass Boost on in EQ
.. i had a bit more of a wow factor when I plugged in the Fiil T2 Pro ... 

But more annoying (still needing a few extra hours for a long term test): even in this short time I have been playing around with them I get the impression that the right bud leaks battery FAST ...  Let's hope this is a fluke, I am charging them full now and when I have the time I will play for a few hours and watch the gauges like a hawk (and screen print it)


----------



## erockg

Ceeluh7 said:


> The Autumn most Def need some good clean amping. I think they are 46 ohms. I did read they were slightly bass shy, actually not shy but just tighter, basically when a track calls for it. You are like me... I need bass, but good bass. This is the only thing which is holding me back. I saw BGGAR's video and he needed the Bass filter and I assume I would as well. I read also that technically they are proficient. Decent extension up top as well. I don't know how accurate this is but one reviewer said that the Autumn could be a treble heads fav with the treble filter.... I am not a treble head. I greatly appreciate your thoughts man. They are still on my shortlist for sure


Okay, so I finally think I found a pair of old Sony tips I like on the Autumn.  Better.  I really like the soundstage on these things.  Just feels more open and airy than the L4.  Tips do matter for sure.  I think the bass is there, it's just not punchy to what I REALLY like.  The L4 has that punch.  Maybe too much in comparison.  If you're too loud it's prob not good for your ears.  Ha ha! 

I'm reading that the Moondrop Kato might be better than the Autumn.  Have you tried those?


----------



## Ceeluh7

erockg said:


> Okay, so I finally think I found a pair of old Sony tips I like on the Autumn.  Better.  I really like the soundstage on these things.  Just feels more open and airy than the L4.  Tips do matter for sure.  I think the bass is there, it's just not punchy to what I REALLY like.  The L4 has that punch.  Maybe too much in comparison.  If you're too loud it's prob not good for your ears.  Ha ha!
> 
> I'm reading that the Moondrop Kato might be better than the Autumn.  Have you tried those?


I haven't tried them but was contemplating the Kato instead.


----------



## Phaethon

Ceeluh7 said:


> Whoa.... Nice job man. Glad you got them so cheap, well cheap compared to the normal $349. I haven't heard them but these look like the best SQ out there for TWS at the moment... Sweet man, enjoy


I plan to! They’re due on Friday along with a pair of Moondrop Blessing 2s. I hope to have those in my TW2s soon. I got some MMCX to 2pin adapters coming because I think the Blessings are 2 pin. I hope those fit! @erockg  Any ideas for good Fokus replacement tips?


----------



## Phaethon

Of course all deliveries are subject to change as we’re all snowed in and frozen here in the usually rainy Seattle!


----------



## erockg

Phaethon said:


> I plan to! They’re due on Friday along with a pair of Moondrop Blessing 2s. I hope to have those in my TW2s soon. I got some MMCX to 2pin adapters coming because I think the Blessings are 2 pin. I hope those fit! @erockg  Any ideas for good Fokus replacement tips?


Honestly, I'm using the stock tips that came preinstalled.  It's working perfect for me.  Oddly enough, I have the Moondrop Variations coming today from Audio46   Loved the B2 (yes, they're 2 pin) but wanted a little more sub-bass.  Supposedly the Variation has it.  Can't go wrong with them both.  So friggin good IMO.  Between the B2 and your NFPs you'll be in heaven.  I was pleasantly surprised by the build quality of the Noble buds.  Beautiful.


----------



## erockg

Ceeluh7 said:


> I haven't tried them but was contemplating the Kato instead.


They're also cheaper on Amazon right now.  Join ussssssss.


----------



## Phaethon

erockg said:


> Honestly, I'm using the stock tips that came preinstalled.  It's working perfect for me.  Oddly enough, I have the Moondrop Variations coming today from Audio46   Loved the B2 (yes, they're 2 pin) but wanted a little more sub-bass.  Supposedly the Variation has it.  Can't go wrong with them both.  So friggin good IMO.  Between the B2 and your NFPs you'll be in heaven.  I was pleasantly surprised by the build quality of the Noble buds.  Beautiful.


Ok. This is more infectious than Omicron but from Amazon I have Tin Hifi P1s and 7mz Timeless coming so I can check out planars. Their bass is supposed to be stellar! I deleted the Amazon app from my iDevices.


----------



## erockg

Phaethon said:


> Ok. This is more infectious than Omicron but from Amazon I have Tin Hifi P1s and 7mz Timeless coming so I can check out planars. Their bass is supposed to be stellar! I deleted the Amazon app from my iDevices.


I wish you were right re: Omicron.  Seems to be all around me here in LA right now!  

I tried the 7gz too.  I didn't like the fit and sound but might be just me.  They get rave reviews by some.  I'm going to try those new Fiio buds too, the FH9, because I'm stupid.


----------



## Phaethon

erockg said:


> I wish you were right re: Omicron.  Seems to be all around me here in LA right now!
> 
> I tried the 7gz too.  I didn't like the fit and sound but might be just me.  They get rave reviews by some.  I'm going to try those new Fiio buds too, the FH9, because I'm stupid.


It’s the Fiio FH7s combined with the TW2s that started me down this dark path. They have a pretty wide soundstage, clear and crisp mid-forward, tight popping bass and well-defined treble with a round-edged roll-off at the tippy-top. All in all, a clear and wide open experience with fine separation. I love it with funk, world music, and jazz. Doesn’t impress me on the classical. Be really interested in your experience with metal, though I can attest to its excellence with Zepp and the like. 

Experienced Advice to the married novices to this hobby: The buds are small and easy to hide. The credit card bills are big and mostly impossible to hide. They follow you everywhere.


----------



## xSDMx

Once I get my TW2, I'm done forever. SE846 + TW2... what more could one want? The moondrops look interesting... 🤪🥴


----------



## erockg

xSDMx said:


> Once I get my TW2, I'm done forever. SE846 + TW2... what more could one want? The moondrops look interesting... 🤪🥴


Right, and after this next cup of coffee, I'll quit coffee forever.


----------



## dweaver

Interesting, I decided to give the Sony Hybrid tips a try on my AZ60 again as they are slightly more comfortable. So last night I am listening to various Celtic and Germanic folk songs, and some Patricia Barber tunes plus Nellie McKay Zombie, and start to think I must have misheard these the first time as they sound quite nice and not sharp sounding.

Flash forward to this morning and I listen to another Nellie McKay song and man are the cymbals ever bright and harsh sounding. I then switch to some Neil Diamond and certain guitar plucks are just too emphasized. I switch over to Mumford and Sons Babel and the banjo is too sharp.

So I switched back to the default tips and all the sounds settle back down.

So it appears that my hearing is more clear in the morning and fatigued by the evening. Causing me to need a softer sound in the morning and then appreciate the added treble in the evening.

This then lead me try another experiment. I grabbed another pair of Technics tips and stick them on my GBuds Pro and man did they change their sound! Taking them from a mid/treble oriented IEM to a much more balanced signature and I think slighter more isolating one as well. 

So tip rolling once again gives new combinations and revelations in my collection.


----------



## guitarizt

xSDMx said:


> You forgot the best part!
> 
> With the UTWS5 now in my possession, I can confirm that you are able to consistently use the case multi-function button to reconnect to a different device WITHOUT having to first disconnect from the previous device, etc. I would still prefer if I could use the touchpad on an individual ear hook adapter for this (without needing the case), but this is already a huge QoL improvement over the UTWS3. Paired to my P6P, put the ear hooks back in the case, press and hold the case multi-function button for 3s, select the UTWS5 within the bluetooth devices menu on my MacBook. Boom, done. Paired. Good to go. YES!


Is there a way to put ambient mode on a button? So if you set it up on an android phone, can you use it with ambient mode on a pc or iphone and toggle ambient on and off with just the utws5?


----------



## xSDMx

guitarizt said:


> Is there a way to put ambient mode on a button? So if you set it up on an android phone, can you use it with ambient mode on a pc or iphone and toggle ambient on and off with just the utws5?


There's more discussion about this in the official UTWS5 thread. Tl;dr: no, not yet. Ambient mode currently relies entirely on both the mobile app and an active audio stream.


----------



## Asoares99

Hello, I am looking to add another tws to my large collection and considering Noble Fokus or B&O EQ. I listen mostly to heavy and progressive metal and like detail on the music, has anyone compared both that can give me a help understanding which one can be a better option? Thanks


----------



## erockg (Dec 29, 2021)

xSDMx said:


> Once I get my TW2, I'm done forever. SE846 + TW2... what more could one want? The moondrops look interesting... 🤪🥴


My Moondrop Variations just arrived.  They fit the Fiio adapters great.  Zero fit issues.  Fit my ears like a glove.  Sitting here comparing them to the Autumn.  I know, not a fair comparison.  Really do get what you pay for.  The Variations are tanks.  The Autumn aren't bad, and the build is quite solid, but everything I'm hearing through the Variations is just so clean.  Truly did miss my Moondrop Blessing 2s and this is great.  Going to be more fun today during this awful weather here.


----------



## erockg

Asoares99 said:


> Hello, I am looking to add another tws to my large collection and considering Noble Fokus or B&O EQ. I listen mostly to heavy and progressive metal and like detail on the music, has anyone compared both that can give me a help understanding which one can be a better option? Thanks


We have similar taste I'm guessing.  I'm a huge Maiden fan.  I love both the Fokus and the EQ but man, the Fokus cranks.  They're amazing and I prefer them over the EQ.  Your head might explode, but whew, they rock.  The soundstage and instrument separation due to the BAs is/are outstanding for a set of TWS.


----------



## Tommy C (Dec 29, 2021)

dweaver said:


> Interesting, I decided to give the Sony Hybrid tips a try on my AZ60 again as they are slightly more comfortable. So last night I am listening to various Celtic and Germanic folk songs, and some Patricia Barber tunes plus Nellie McKay Zombie, and start to think I must have misheard these the first time as they sound quite nice and not sharp sounding.
> 
> Flash forward to this morning and I listen to another Nellie McKay song and man are the cymbals ever bright and harsh sounding. I then switch to some Neil Diamond and certain guitar plucks are just too emphasized. I switch over to Mumford and Sons Babel and the banjo is too sharp.
> 
> ...



I hear you. My late night TWS are the CX 400BT because I noticed that in the evening I much prefer mellow sound signature and even though the rest of my TWS are all pretty balanced and non-fatiguing, I still pick up the CX 400BT in the evening more often than not as their soundstage makes everything a little distant from the stage which is really nice if you just want to kick back and chill after a long day on calls and listening to music in between.


----------



## Aramaki

erockg said:


> My Moondrop Variations just arrived.  They fit the Fiio adapters great.  Zero fit issues.  Fit my ears like a glove.  Sitting here comparing them to the Autumn.  I know, not a fair comparison.  Really do get what you pay for.  The Variations are tanks.  The Autumn aren't bad, and the build is quite solid, but everything I'm hearing through the Variations is just so clean.  Truly did miss my Moondrop Blessing 2s and this is great.  Going to be more fun today during this awful weather here.


Are those the UTWS5's?, I have the UTWS3 and Variations as well, debating if the updated Fiio's are worth it.


----------



## erockg

Aramaki said:


> Are those the UTWS5's?, I have the UTWS3 and Variations as well, debating if the updated Fiio's are worth it.


Yeah, using the new ones.  I've never had the 3 so I can't compare for you.


----------



## erockg

Aramaki said:


> Are those the UTWS5's?, I have the UTWS3 and Variations as well, debating if the updated Fiio's are worth it.


I am having an issue with the right 2 pin adapter of the UTWS5 slipping out of the Variations.  Kind of annoying, but the Variations have a semi-recessed female connection


----------



## Asoares99

erockg said:


> We have similar taste I'm guessing.  I'm a huge Maiden fan.  I love both the Fokus and the EQ but man, the Fokus cranks.  They're amazing and I prefer them over the EQ.  Your head might explode, but whew, they rock.  The soundstage and instrument separation due to the BAs is/are outstanding for a set of TWS.


Well, I see Fokus is the choice. From the ones I have I love the Devialet Gemini but the ones I use more are the B&W Pi7, the fit of the Gemini is awful for my ears...


----------



## Canabuc

Ceeluh7 said:


> I haven't tried them but was contemplating the Kato instead.


Have the Aria which are amazing for the piece. Hear the Kato is a step up with the same sound signature.
That and the 7hz timeless intrigue me.


----------



## Ceeluh7

JVC HA-FW1000T 

OK.... Fellas.... Are there any reviews anywhere that any of you have seen for this set? I thought I remember some talk on this forum about them but that is prob a couple hundred pages back.


----------



## erockg

Ceeluh7 said:


> JVC HA-FW1000T
> 
> OK.... Fellas.... Are there any reviews anywhere that any of you have seen for this set? I thought I remember some talk on this forum about them but that is prob a couple hundred pages back.


Nada.  Just talk.  I think they're just the variation of the Victor version that you can get on Amazon Japan.  Supposedly, differently tuned.


----------



## Ceeluh7

Canabuc said:


> Have the Aria which are amazing for the piece. Hear the Kato is a step up with the same sound signature.
> That and the 7hz timeless intrigue me.


Ya man, I was thinking that too. I have had the Aria for some time as well as the Starfield. I read some reviews stating that they are only a hair apart between the Aria-Kxxs-Starfield-Kato. I'm actually looking at the Ikko Oh10 now... For whatever reason I have always passed them up and I like good clean but bad ass bass that doesn't muddy up the spectrum. So the oh10 among about 5 others. I should be happy with what I have... Lol... I have way too many iems and so many that I haven't listened to in months.... I gotta scratch that itch yo


----------



## Canabuc

Ceeluh7 said:


> Ya man, I was thinking that too. I have had the Aria for some time as well as the Starfield. I read some reviews stating that they are only a hair apart between the Aria-Kxxs-Starfield-Kato. I'm actually looking at the Ikko Oh10 now... For whatever reason I have always passed them up and I like good clean but bad ass bass that doesn't muddy up the spectrum. So the oh10 among about 5 others. I should be happy with what I have... Lol... I have way too many iems and so many that I haven't listened to in months.... I gotta scratch that itch yo


I hear the 7hz timeless have amazing sub bass that doesn't affect the mids


----------



## Ceeluh7

erockg said:


> Nada.  Just talk.  I think they're just the variation of the Victor version that you can get on Amazon Japan.  Supposedly, differently tuned.


Dude....my problem is this... I want the Fokus however Amazon does not sell the Fokus.... Ugh. I have about $400 in AMAZON gift cards. I could spring for the Falcon Pro but I just think they are almost too V-shaped. Of course I have zero experience with this set but just reviews I have read. Anyways this JVC is kind of a mystery, just wondering


----------



## jant71 (Dec 29, 2021)

erockg said:


> Okay, so I finally think I found a pair of old Sony tips I like on the Autumn.  Better.  I really like the soundstage on these things.  Just feels more open and airy than the L4.  Tips do matter for sure.  I think the bass is there, it's just not punchy to what I REALLY like.  The L4 has that punch.  Maybe too much in comparison.  If you're too loud it's prob not good for your ears.  Ha ha!
> 
> I'm reading that the Moondrop Kato might be better than the Autumn.  Have you tried those?



I'm reading this in a couple places...
"Hence, versatility is better with the Autumn, as some might not want to keep unscrewing and screwing on nozzles on-the-go for the KATO. Both sets have an organic timbral accuracy for acoustic instruments, but the Autumn edges the KATO in soundstage, instrument separation, imaging, and micro-details."


----------



## Ceeluh7

Canabuc said:


> I hear the 7hz timeless have amazing sub bass that doesn't affect the mids


I am thinking the 7hz are a big hype train. I read that there are issues in tonality sprinkled around. A few reviewer actually rec'd the P1 Plus over the 7hz. I am curious about that set though. I know as far as technicalities go they are wonderful


----------



## Ceeluh7

jant71 said:


> I'm reading this in a couple places...
> "Hence, versatility is better with the Autumn, as some might not want to keep unscrewing and screwing on nozzles on-the-go for the KATO. Both sets have an organic timbral accuracy for acoustic instruments, but the Autumn edges the KATO in soundstage, instrument separation, imaging, and micro-details."


I am looking at the Autumn as well. How do you feel they stack up in the price point? I am suspecting the hype is justified


----------



## erockg

Ceeluh7 said:


> Dude....my problem is this... I want the Fokus however Amazon does not sell the Fokus.... Ugh. I have about $400 in AMAZON gift cards. I could spring for the Falcon Pro but I just think they are almost too V-shaped. Of course I have zero experience with this set but just reviews I have read. Anyways this JVC is kind of a mystery, just wondering


Ah bummer.  I got them from Noble directly.  I hear you, I have some Xmas returns that will become Amazon gift cards soon... but you know, the waiting is the hardest part.


----------



## Ceeluh7

erockg said:


> Ah bummer.  I got them from Noble directly.  I hear you, I have some Xmas returns that will become Amazon gift cards soon... but you know, the waiting is the hardest part.


Yessir... I guess there is worse problems to have.. Ha


----------



## erockg

jant71 said:


> I'm reading this in a couple places...
> "Hence, versatility is better with the Autumn, as some might not want to keep unscrewing and screwing on nozzles on-the-go for the KATO. Both sets have an organic timbral accuracy for acoustic instruments, but the Autumn edges the KATO in soundstage, instrument separation, imaging, and micro-details."


I'm reading all that too.  Seems folks go back and forth.  I mean, I have them.  They're nice.  They do sound great.  The filter system is super easy to do.  I think these Moondrop Variations are miles ahead of them.  But the Autumn does have more encompassing bass with that bass filter.  The Variations are more bass than the F4s but less and more defined than the Autumn.  Whew.  Exhausting, I know


----------



## erockg

Ceeluh7 said:


> Yessir... I guess there is worse problems to have.. Ha


Wonder if you can buy Visa giftcards with an Amazon card.  Prob not.


----------



## jant71 (Dec 29, 2021)

erockg said:


> Nada.  Just talk.  I think they're just the variation of the Victor version that you can get on Amazon Japan.  Supposedly, differently tuned.



 They did change the filters on the one FD model for Massdrop cause they didn't change the sound much but they don't tune for different areas. Should be the same Victor Esp. since it is Victor tuned it is pretty certain that is final. They chose the tips, tuned both the drivers and the K2 implementation for it. They aren't going take the time and $$$ to do that any way.


----------



## Ceeluh7

erockg said:


> Wonder if you can buy Visa giftcards with an Amazon card.  Prob not.


You can't... I've tried, something about buying gift cards with gift cards. I appreciate the thought though. This group is awesome. I'm thinking I'm going to have to rely on selling a bunch of gear to get the cheddar for the Fokus.


----------



## BooleanBones

erockg said:


> Ah bummer.  I got them from Noble directly.  I hear you, I have some Xmas returns that will become Amazon gift cards soon... but you know, the waiting is the hardest part.


I ordered mine from Audio46 as they are a bit faster shipping it appeared.


----------



## erockg

BooleanBones said:


> I ordered mine from Audio46 as they are a bit faster shipping it appeared.


They really are.  Same day shipping on Monday and they told me I'd have these Variations on Weds.  Brilliant!  Plus they have a rewards points system.  

Might try headphones.com too one day.  Closer to me out here.


----------



## BooleanBones

erockg said:


> They really are.  Same day shipping on Monday and they told me I'd have these Variations on Weds.  Brilliant!  Plus they have a rewards points system.
> 
> Might try headphones.com too one day.  Closer to me out here.


Dude, they sent me a shipping confirmation with 20 minutes


----------



## Phaethon

erockg said:


> They really are.  Same day shipping on Monday and they told me I'd have these Variations on Weds.  Brilliant!  Plus they have a rewards points system.
> 
> Might try headphones.com too one day.  Closer to me out here.


Plus they have great selection and open box gems. And they’re not Amazon. Don’t mind Amazon - returns are stupidly easy for me. But I want some diversity in the marketplace. I got my iBasso dx300 from Moon Audio and Fokus/Blessing2s from Audio46. Then I check Amazon and if it’s deep-chi-fi I it get from Hifigo. Only retailers that give me panics are Hifigo because there’s this period of time your order is in a black hole between Hifigo and the US where it suddenly pops up and is trackable again


----------



## erockg

Phaethon said:


> Plus they have great selection and open box gems. And they’re not Amazon. Don’t mind Amazon - returns are stupidly easy for me. But I want some diversity in the marketplace. I got my iBasso dx300 from Moon Audio and Fokus/Blessing2s from Audio46. Then I check Amazon and if it’s deep-chi-fi I it get from Hifigo. Only retailers that give me panics are Hifigo because there’s this period of time your order is in a black hole between Hifigo and the US where it suddenly pops up and is trackable again


Yeah, agreed.  I'm opening it up to the indie places esp. if it's something I know I want.


----------



## LordToneeus

BooleanBones said:


> I ordered mine from Audio46 as they are a bit faster shipping it appeared.


Damn you and your mention of Audio46! Wife caught me browsing the website, and she said “No! How many pairs of headphones and earbuds and whatnots have you bought yourself this year?!”  And I don’t even think she noticed the box containing my AZ09 Pro that arrived today.


----------



## Phaethon

This thread https://www.head-fi.org/threads/rik...adphones-tips-ranking-list-music-list.925319/ is a wealth of information on our current topic. Check out the spreadsheet in his signature. There are multiple pages organized at the bottom of it with more info than you can shake a stick at!


----------



## BooleanBones

LordToneeus said:


> Damn you and your mention of Audio46! Wife caught me browsing the website, and she said “No! How many pairs of headphones and earbuds and whatnots have you bought yourself this year?!”  And I don’t even think she noticed the box containing my AZ09 Pro that arrived today.


Headphones have been easy for me, not a peep. Now, I did have to explain myself with the B&W formation speakers since they don’t fit in the drawer


----------



## Earl of Bouillon (Dec 29, 2021)

Ceeluh7 said:


> Dude....my problem is this... I want the Fokus however Amazon does not sell the Fokus.... Ugh. I have about $400 in AMAZON gift cards. I could spring for the Falcon Pro but I just think they are almost too V-shaped. Of course I have zero experience with this set but just reviews I have read. Anyways this JVC is kind of a mystery, just wondering


Just be the first to report your thoughts on it back to us  

I'm currently waiting for the Final ZE3000. I think I would like that to be my first TWS.


----------



## erockg

LordToneeus said:


> Damn you and your mention of Audio46! Wife caught me browsing the website, and she said “No! How many pairs of headphones and earbuds and whatnots have you bought yourself this year?!”  And I don’t even think she noticed the box containing my AZ09 Pro that arrived today.


I feel your pain.  Seriously, I do.  They'll never understand our hobby/addiction.


----------



## jant71

Earl of Bouillon said:


> Just be the first to report your thoughts on it back to us
> 
> I'm currently waiting for the Final ZE3000. I think I would like that to be my first TWS.


Did you pre-order it at Audio46?


----------



## Canabuc

Ceeluh7 said:


> I am thinking the 7hz are a big hype train. I read that there are issues in tonality sprinkled around. A few reviewer actually rec'd the P1 Plus over the 7hz. I am curious about that set though. I know as far as technicalities go they are wonderful



I have read many reviews and maybe a tiny number had so e channel i.balance and it seems to have been blown way out of proportion. Also seems the sound is very dependent on tip choice.
For Crinacle to give these the rating he did you know they are superb.


----------



## Earl of Bouillon

jant71 said:


> Did you pre-order it at Audio46?


Not yet, I'm thinking of waiting to see when it actually goes in stock and then purchasing them.


----------



## Ceeluh7

Earl of Bouillon said:


> Just be the first to report your thoughts on it back to us
> 
> I'm currently waiting for the Final ZE3000. I think I would like that to be my first TWS.


I didn't do it... I would have but.... The TRI I3 Pro was calling my name, I also went ahead and purchased the IFi Go Blu. My eyes were starting to hurt from going back and freaking forth scanning websites and reviews and Yada Yada.... I just hit "Buy Now"... I can always send em back


----------



## erockg

What we've got here is pure euphoria with the Moondrop Variations and the Fiio UTWS5:






Wow.  I am just blown away.  Keepers.  Okay guys, yeah, I know... Until the next big thing comes along, like a chip in my head.  It'll happen.


----------



## Ceeluh7

erockg said:


> What we've got here is pure euphoria with the Moondrop Variations and the Fiio UTWS5:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Dude.... Variations and the 5.....damn that's a nice set-up! Awesome man. I'm going to go thru my iem collection and see what fits the best with my utws5. One thing I know is that I want the Mmcx version very soon. If only Fiio would've added removable adapters


----------



## erockg

Ceeluh7 said:


> Dude.... Variations and the 5.....damn that's a nice set-up! Awesome man. I'm going to go thru my iem collection and see what fits the best with my utws5. One thing I know is that I want the Mmcx version very soon. If only Fiio would've added removable adapters


With you there.  I have the MMCX to 2 Pin adapter coming tomorrow.  I'm going to see if I can use it on the MMCX 5's to save myself a few buck.  Going to test these sucker on the Shure adapters too.  Man, it's just amazing.  The separation and the sub bass.  If there were a hidden camera awards show here right now, for sure I'm winning.  I can literally hear Burton plucking the bass.  It's just awesome.  Oddly enough, I put on the Noble Fokus and had to tone down the bass.  After listening to the Variations, you start to realize what good bass is and what's way too much.


----------



## Phaethon

Ceeluh7 said:


> I didn't do it... I would have but.... The TRI I3 Pro was calling my name, I also went ahead and purchased the IFi Go Blu. My eyes were starting to hurt from going back and freaking forth scanning websites and reviews and Yada Yada.... I just hit "Buy Now"... I can always send em back


The Go Blu has really tempted me too but i just love my Qudelix way too much. The granular control over the sound is incredible for someone who likes twiddling sound as much as I do!


----------



## Ceeluh7

erockg said:


> With you there.  I have the MMCX to 2 Pin adapter coming tomorrow.  I'm going to see if I can use it on the MMCX 5's to save myself a few buck.  Going to test these sucker on the Shure adapters too.  Man, it's just amazing.  The separation and the sub bass.  If there were a hidden camera awards show here right now, for sure I'm winning.  I can literally hear Burton plucking the bass.  It's just awesome.  Oddly enough, I put on the Noble Fokus and had to tone down the bass.  After listening to the Variations, you start to realize what good bass is and what's way too much.


100% agreed. Between the Shure Adapters and the Fiio, both with quality dacs, and you slap on good iems... Man the replay is awesome. I can only speak of Fiio between the two and I truly can appreciate what you are saying. Oh and dude..... You are Def winning.


----------



## Ceeluh7

Phaethon said:


> The Go Blu has really tempted me too but i just love my Qudelix way too much. The granular control over the sound is incredible for someone who likes twiddling sound as much as I do!


I have issues dude.... I have the Qudelix and btr5 but... There exists an IFi Go Blu... Lol. I can't imagine it will be some monumental upgrade over qudelix but coming from some people whose opinions I can trust... There is a SQ difference. I'm also thinking form factor as well. As much as I live the Qudelix, I do not like the button layout, I can't tell you how many times I've pressed the wrong one in my pocket. I always have to find the damn clip with my finger and then my brain has to process which side is which and.... Not really a big deal at all but the IFi seems just so much more intuitive.


----------



## xSDMx

Got my Shure TW2 Gen2 today. I definitely appreciate the benefits of a very intentionally designed earhook. The fit is superb with my SE846. So much more comfortable and snug vs. any other 3P earhook I've tried. Zero fiddling with the fitment. It's just perfect.


----------



## erockg

xSDMx said:


> Got my Shure TW2 Gen2 today. I definitely appreciate the benefits of a very intentionally designed earhook. The fit is superb with my SE846. So much more comfortable and snug vs. any other 3P earhook I've tried. Zero fiddling with the fitment. It's just perfect.


Glad you dig them!


----------



## Phaethon

Ceeluh7 said:


> I have issues dude.... I have the Qudelix and btr5 but... There exists an IFi Go Blu... Lol. I can't imagine it will be some monumental upgrade over qudelix but coming from some people whose opinions I can trust... There is a SQ difference. I'm also thinking form factor as well. As much as I live the Qudelix, I do not like the button layout, I can't tell you how many times I've pressed the wrong one in my pocket. I always have to find the damn clip with my finger and then my brain has to process which side is which and.... Not really a big deal at all but the IFi seems just so much more intuitive.


Hmm… there is not an untrue word here. I find the buttons infuriating! Does the Go Blu have an app? I’d al like an external volume knob or something


----------



## xSDMx (Dec 30, 2021)

erockg said:


> Glad you dig them!


Ambient mode is absolutely perfect on the Shure TW2 and works EXACTLY how I'd expect. ANYONE implementing ambient mode on their TWS or earhook adapters just needs to copy Shure. Wow! Bummed about the cumbersome charging case, losing wireless charging, AptX Adaptive, etc., but from a pure usability standpoint... Shure nailed it with the TW2!


----------



## Phaethon

xSDMx said:


> Ambient mode is absolutely perfect on the Shure TW2 and works EXACTLY how I'd expect. ANYONE implementing ambient mode on their TWS or earhook adapters just needs to copy Shure. Wow! Bummed about the cumbersome charging case, losing wireless charging, AptX Adaptive, etc., but from a pure usability standpoint... Shure nailed it with the TW2!


Agreed! My first experience with them, I ordered them with the Aonic 5s. I was underwhelmed and sent the whole kit and kaboodle back to Amazon. Then I tried the Fiio FH7s and was blown away! 2+2= it was the Shure Aonic 5s that I didn’t like! So I got the TWS2 back and have loved them!

Amazon just told me the January 9 delivery of UTWS5 with two pin has been moved to February 18. I sure hope those MMCX to 2 pin adapters coming Sunday work!

Meanwhile, Seattle got a few more inches of snow last night so everything is delayed!


----------



## scubaphish

Don’t think I asked yet; does anyone with the TW2 also wear glasses?


----------



## Phaethon (Dec 30, 2021)

scubaphish said:


> Don’t think I asked yet; does anyone with the TW2 also wear glasses?


🤚 TW2 first; then glasses on. Perfectly comfortable for me


----------



## scubaphish

Phaethon said:


> 🤚 TW2 first; then glasses on. Perfectly comfortable for me


Thanks. Sitting here listening to my SE535s and wondering how I don’t at least try the TW2


----------



## darveniza

Phaethon said:


> Plus they have great selection and open box gems. And they’re not Amazon. Don’t mind Amazon - returns are stupidly easy for me. But I want some diversity in the marketplace. I got my iBasso dx300 from Moon Audio and Fokus/Blessing2s from Audio46. Then I check Amazon and if it’s deep-chi-fi I it get from Hifigo. Only retailers that give me panics are Hifigo because there’s this period of time your order is in a black hole between Hifigo and the US where it suddenly pops up and is trackable again


Hifigo has been a go to for me , I find them a lot more reliable with shipping info. In particular if you use their expedited service it's a continuous update via texts. They don't use an LA shipping consolidation point as others which helps on delivery time.


----------



## darveniza

LordToneeus said:


> Damn you and your mention of Audio46! Wife caught me browsing the website, and she said “No! How many pairs of headphones and earbuds and whatnots have you bought yourself this year?!”  And I don’t even think she noticed the box containing my AZ09 Pro that arrived today.


My wife opened a desk drawer were I placed all my TWS items and she was livid, she just told me "really!!!!!!" Do you need 20 of these for you??? And she walked away like I was a freak 🙃


----------



## BooleanBones

darveniza said:


> My wife opened a desk drawer were I placed all my TWS items and she was livid, she just told me "really!!!!!!" Do you need 20 of these for you??? And she walked away like I was a freak 🙃


Thanks, that made my morning.


----------



## Tommy C

scubaphish said:


> Don’t think I asked yet; does anyone with the TW2 also wear glasses?


Oh shoot. Just realized I promised you a photo wearing glasses a while back. Sorry, my bad. If no one here can provide input I’ll do my best to take a photo wearing glasses with the adapters.


----------



## scubaphish

Tommy C said:


> Oh shoot. Just realized I promised you a photo wearing glasses a while back. Sorry, my bad. If no one here can provide input I’ll do my best to take a photo wearing glasses with the adapters.


Oh shoot, that’s right I asked. Sorry for the dupe guys


----------



## Ceeluh7

darveniza said:


> My wife opened a desk drawer were I placed all my TWS items and she was livid, she just told me "really!!!!!!" Do you need 20 of these for you??? And she walked away like I was a freak 🙃


Dude... It is a joke in my house... I hide my addiction as best I can man. I hide my 50 or so iems under my bed in Walmart toolboxes, hide my 15 or so tws in my closet and every dac/amp/dongle & DAP is tucked away under my freaking nightstand.... Lol.... If ever I break them out I shut the door in my bedroom like some crazy person and get what I want as quickly as I can... This is bad man... Lol. My kids make fun of me, wife makes fun of me but at least there is people here who completely understand. My wife wonders why in thee hell I need more than one set of earbuds. I'm thinking... Woman you have no idea


----------



## erockg

Ceeluh7 said:


> Dude... It is a joke in my house... I hide my addiction as best I can man. I hide my 50 or so iems under my bed in Walmart toolboxes, hide my 15 or so tws in my closet and every dac/amp/dongle & DAP is tucked away under my freaking nightstand.... Lol.... If ever I break them out I shut the door in my bedroom like some crazy person and get what I want as quickly as I can... This is bad man... Lol. My kids make fun of me, wife makes fun of me but at least there is people here who completely understand. My wife wonders why in thee hell I need more than one set of earbuds. I'm thinking... Woman you have no idea


I never leave boxes out.  Ever.  Good news is that she never looks at my desk.  It's odd.  Not even the slightest curiosity about the 7 gadgets sitting out.  Maybe I'm just lucky.  But tomorrow the FH9s arrive and need a signature.  Pray for me.


----------



## Ceeluh7

erockg said:


> I never leave boxes out.  Ever.  Good news is that she never looks at my desk.  It's odd.  Not even the slightest curiosity about the 7 gadgets sitting out.  Maybe I'm just lucky.  But tomorrow the FH9s arrive and need a signature.  Pray for me.


All over it man..... Ha. This is hilarious. Just do your best "Mission Impossible" reenactment. Maybe a diversion or two.. Lol... You got this. It's worth it for the FH9 man.... Very nice


----------



## erockg

Ceeluh7 said:


> All over it man..... Ha. This is hilarious. Just do your best "Mission Impossible" reenactment. Maybe a diversion or two.. Lol... You got this. It's worth it for the FH9 man.... Very nice


Literally, as I read your comment she said, "What's this?  Are you still looking at headphones -- ?"  Uh, yeah.  Always.


----------



## scubaphish

scubaphish said:


> Thanks. Sitting here listening to my SE535s and wondering how I don’t at least try the TW2


Ordered!  Will have Monday. and yes, I am expecting wifely looks


----------



## LordToneeus

Ceeluh7 said:


> Dude... It is a joke in my house... I hide my addiction as best I can man. I hide my 50 or so iems under my bed in Walmart toolboxes, hide my 15 or so tws in my closet and every dac/amp/dongle & DAP is tucked away under my freaking nightstand.... Lol.... If ever I break them out I shut the door in my bedroom like some crazy person and get what I want as quickly as I can... This is bad man... Lol. My kids make fun of me, wife makes fun of me but at least there is people here who completely understand. My wife wonders why in thee hell I need more than one set of earbuds. I'm thinking... Woman you have no idea


I just point out in my defense that there are worse things I could waste money on (e.g., I don't gamble or frequent strip clubs...)  Some men collect cigars or whiskey or My Little Ponies.  I like headphones.


----------



## Ceeluh7

LordToneeus said:


> I just point out in my defense that there are worse things I could waste money on (e.g., I don't gamble or frequent strip clubs...)  Some men collect cigars or whiskey or My Little Ponies.  I like headphones.


Hahahahha! I say the exact same thing. "Babe I'm not out with some other chic, I'm not getting lap dances, I'm a nerd.... For headphones" lol. Man, it's actually a very good argument. Oh and my wife completely agrees with the NERD part. That was funny man


----------



## TK33 (Dec 30, 2021)

scubaphish said:


> Thanks. Sitting here listening to my SE535s and wondering how I don’t at least try the TW2


I also wear glasses and the TW2 work fine.  Since I leave them at the office, SE535s are on them now.  Didn't want to leave my SE846 there since I have a tendency to leave things lying around.

Edit: forgot to add that it is a little annoying with the mask though. As long as you are careful when taking off a mask it is fine.


----------



## erockg

TK33 said:


> I also wear glasses and the TW2 work fine.  Since I leave them at the office, SE535s are on them now.  Didn't want to leave my SE846 there since I have a tendency to leave things lying around.
> 
> Edit: forgot to add that it is a little annoying with the mask though. As long as you are careful when taking off a mask it is fine.


Yeah, agreed.  Masks do get tangled.  Also depends on the thickness of your glasses.  My regular glasses are find but some of my sunglasses make the fit unruly.  All doable though.


----------



## Tommy C

Ceeluh7 said:


> Dude... It is a joke in my house... I hide my addiction as best I can man. I hide my 50 or so iems under my bed in Walmart toolboxes, hide my 15 or so tws in my closet and every dac/amp/dongle & DAP is tucked away under my freaking nightstand.... Lol.... If ever I break them out I shut the door in my bedroom like some crazy person and get what I want as quickly as I can... This is bad man... Lol. My kids make fun of me, wife makes fun of me but at least there is people here who completely understand. *My wife wonders why in thee hell I need more than one set of earbuds. I'm thinking... Woman you have no idea*



For the same reason they _need _10 different purses, 5 different handbags and 20+ sandals.


----------



## erockg

LordToneeus said:


> I just point out in my defense that there are worse things I could waste money on (e.g., I don't gamble or frequent strip clubs...)  Some men collect cigars or whiskey or My Little Ponies.  I like headphones.


Men who collect My Little Ponies eventually go to prison.


----------



## xSDMx (Dec 30, 2021)

One fix for masks + earhook adapters or glasses, etc. is to get a mask extender. Velcro has a hook and loop one that works super well. Better fit, too.


----------



## Tommy C

TK33 said:


> I also wear glasses and the TW2 work fine.  Since I leave them at the office, SE535s are on them now.  Didn't want to leave my SE846 there since I have a tendency to leave things lying around.
> 
> Edit: forgot to add that it is a little annoying with the mask though. As long as you are careful when taking off a mask it is fine.



How's the SE535 Vs. the SE846? I know the latter is much more expensive but is it worth getting the SE535 to pair with the TW2?


----------



## erockg

Tommy C said:


> How's the SE535 Vs. the SE846? I know the latter is much more expensive but is it worth getting the SE535 to pair with the TW2?


I had the 535 but wound up returning them for the 846 because I couldn't help myself.  You can definitely hear a difference IMO.  But for a huge price.


----------



## xSDMx

I like my SE846 a whole lot. I can't compare to the SE535, but the SE846 have similar tonality to the SE215 but with just so much "more" of everything. Way more detail, precision, wider soundstage.


----------



## TK33 (Dec 30, 2021)

Tommy C said:


> How's the SE535 Vs. the SE846? I know the latter is much more expensive but is it worth getting the SE535 to pair with the TW2?


I have probably had SE535s for 10+ years (fixed once a few years ago due to wear on the shells at the MMCX connector) and found them to be more comfortable  than the SE846 due to their smaller size and form factor.  I did EQ them using my Qudelix 5K for a bit last year using the Orratory1990 settings with a little less treble and mostly used them to sleep since they sit more flush than the SE846. Now they are in the office and used with a little bass boost on the TW2 where I use them to drown out background noise (I sit on a trading desk and music helps me focus). 

I don't find the SE846 needs any EQ and they are a clear step up in SQ, especially when it comes to the clarity in the bass, separation and soundstage.  For example, I sometimes get tricked into thinking someone is talking to me when listening to live recordings and look around to find nobody there or my wife looking at me like I'm crazy, which I never really got with the SE535s. Although I do feel they share similarities in tuning, I do recall that the SE535s started sounding a bit muffled to me after I got the SE846. As noted above, I did find EQ helped.  Keep in mind though that the SE846 are very sensitive and need a good source (look for low output impedance).  Works fine with the TW2.

If I were buying today and we're willing to spend $500 on a pair of Shure IEMs, I would watch for sales on the SE846 instead since I do think they are a clear step up over the SE535 and Amazon does have them on sale once in a while (but do understand everyone has different budgets). If I were not so hopeful that Shure would release a new version soon, I probably would have bought another one

Disclaimer, I am a big fan of Shure and have the SE425 (hidden in a box somewhere with my unused TWS), SE535, SE846, and Aonic 50. Have also had the SE530 and SRH 840, both of which broke after years of abuse so take what I said with a grain of salt.


----------



## xSDMx

Why the heck isn't this the standard behavior? Once you're fully paired with specific devices, switching devices really is just as easy as selecting the TW2 from the previously connected menu on whatever your next device is. It's so easy. It's so obvious. It just works. Please, all other TWS and earhook manufacturers: buy the TW2, take notes on how it handles ambient mode, pairing, the app functionality, etc. and just copy ALL OF THAT and focus on your unique product selling point.


----------



## Tommy C

erockg said:


> I had the 535 but wound up returning them for the 846 because I couldn't help myself.  You can definitely hear a difference IMO.  But for a huge price.





TK33 said:


> I have probably had SE535s for 10+ years (fixed once a few years ago due to wear on the shells at the MMCX connector) and found them to be more comfortable  than the SE846 due to their smaller size and form factor.  I did EQ them using my Qudelix 5K for a bit last year using the Orratory1990 settings with a little less treble and mostly used them to sleep since they sit more flush than the SE846. Now they are in the office and used with a little bass boost on the TW2 where I use them to drown out background noise (I sit on a trading desk and music helps me focus).
> 
> I don't find the SE846 needs any EQ and they are a clear step up in SQ, especially when it comes to the clarity in the bass, separation and soundstage.  For example, I sometimes get tricked into thinking someone is talking to me when listening to live recordings and look around to find nobody there or my wife looking at me like I'm crazy, which I never really got with the SE535s. Although I do feel they share similarities in tuning, I do recall that the SE535s started sounding a bit muffled to me after I got the SE846. As noted above, I did find EQ helped.  Keep in mind though that the SE846 are very sensitive and need a good source (look for low output impedance).  Works fine with the TW2.
> 
> ...



Very helpful. Thank you!


----------



## Tommy C

xSDMx said:


> Why the heck isn't this the standard behavior? Once you're fully paired with specific devices, switching devices really is just as easy as selecting the TW2 from the previously connected menu on whatever your next device is. It's so easy. It's so obvious. It just works. Please, all other TWS and earhook manufacturers: buy the TW2, take notes on how it handles ambient mode, pairing, the app functionality, etc. and just copy ALL OF THAT and focus on your unique product selling point.



Shure did really well here. To me it's about the sound but also the user experience and Shure delivered on both fronts.
Life is too short to deal with bugs and glitches.


----------



## FYLegend

There's currently a 20$ coupon for the Liberty 3 Pro on Amazon.ca (180$). Not quite the launch price (170$) though. I guess they don't want to piss off the launch price folks and stay true to the launch price discount as something unique for now.


----------



## FYLegend

raymanh said:


> Is the Q30 ANC meh compared to other headphones, or compared to wireless IEMs too? (I'm assuming, correctly I think, that headphone ANC is generally better than wireless IEMs).
> 
> Wondering if you could compare the ANC performance to one of these:
> 
> ...



I am rather underwhelmed by the Q30's ANC. It removes some mid-low freuncies but it lets in some croaky rumbling sounds like my space heater. It also doesn't properly remember the ANC setting from the Soundcore app and defaults to this mediocre setting (similar to outdoor mode but slightly better). I always have to go into the app to set it to "indoor" which is considerably better but still not outstanding for my setting.

Overall I think the Dyplay Urban Traveller 2 has more superior ANC to the Q30 though it does let in some hissing sounds like my laptop fan. It also has a very bright/lean sound with ANC turned on (think Audio-Technica MSR7), but becomes dark/warm with ANC off. I really like their styling and durability (but they do fit a tad loose), unfortunately it doesn't have ambient mode and the auto power-off even when connected is extremely annoying (it only stays on if audio is playing).

I don't have the T2 Pro/Earfun Free Pro 2 but had the original. ANC was horrible for outdoor commutting (it was amplifying certain train sounds!) but worked very well for my indoor space heater/fan setting. However, part of this is that it is a more hissy ANC that drowns out these sounds.

SoundPeats T2 does a great job with low to mid frequencies for its price. It still struggles for my commute (old skytrains) though that is asking for a lot. What is more irritating is how it doesn't remember your ANC settings and SoundPeats disabling a number of features like EQ which would be otherwise customizable with the AirReps156X app. Take it with a grain of salt, but Gamesky suggested that SoundPeats makes you cycle through transparency mode so you would be more impressed with turning ANC on.

The Galaxy Buds 2 has more superior ANC overall, but still doesn't do very well for commuting.


----------



## Phaethon

xSDMx said:


> Why the heck isn't this the standard behavior? Once you're fully paired with specific devices, switching devices really is just as easy as selecting the TW2 from the previously connected menu on whatever your next device is. It's so easy. It's so obvious. It just works. Please, all other TWS and earhook manufacturers: buy the TW2, take notes on how it handles ambient mode, pairing, the app functionality, etc. and just copy ALL OF THAT and focus on your unique product selling point.


And please add 2 pin functionality as many of my favorite iems have 2 pin connectors!


----------



## erockg

Phaethon said:


> And please add 2 pin functionality as many of my favorite iems have 2 pin connectors!


I don't think they'd ever do that and cannibalize their own IEM business.  But I'll be trying that MMCX to 2 Pin adapter when it arrives today and report back!


----------



## Dsnuts (Dec 30, 2021)

Works perfectly. In fact I highly recommend just sticking with the mmcx version and just use these 2 pin adapters on top of it. I have the Penon Serial on these. Ear pieces sit firmly in place and does not move around much.

No need to buy two versions of the UTWS5. If you own a variety of IEMs using both mmcx and 2 pin this is the way to go. I have 2 pin to mmcx adaptors too but I find those to protrude a bit too much vs what is shown.


----------



## erockg

Dsnuts said:


> Works perfectly. In fact I highly recommend just sticking with the mmcx version and just use these 2 pin adapters on top of it. I have the Penon Serial on these. Ear pieces sit firmly in place and does not move around much.
> 
> No need to buy two versions of the UTWS5. If you own a variety of IEMs using both mmcx and 2 pin this is the way to go. I have 2 pin to mmcx adaptors too but I find those to protrude a bit too much vs what is shown.


Perfect.  Exactly what I was hoping.  I have the Variations, but the connection is recessed and my right bud works itself out.  Those adapters will fit nicely.


----------



## Phaethon

erockg said:


> I don't think they'd ever do that and cannibalize their own IEM business.  But I'll be trying that MMCX to 2 Pin adapter when it arrives today and report back!


Thanks 🙏 !


----------



## Phaethon

Dsnuts said:


> Works perfectly. In fact I highly recommend just sticking with the mmcx version and just use these 2 pin adapters on top of it. I have the Penon Serial on these. Ear pieces sit firmly in place and does not move around much.
> 
> No need to buy two versions of the UTWS5. If you own a variety of IEMs using both mmcx and 2 pin this is the way to go. I have 2 pin to mmcx adaptors too but I find those to protrude a bit too much vs what is shown.


Yay! Mine come Sunday!


----------



## darveniza

Ceeluh7 said:


> All over it man..... Ha. This is hilarious. Just do your best "Mission Impossible" reenactment. Maybe a diversion or two.. Lol... You got this. It's worth it for the FH9 man.... Very nice


Well my wife has asked why do we have Amazon Japan boxes arriving weekly and I just tell her maybe it's Amazon just raising awareness about their global presence and that her and my son need to stop ordering stuff 😁


----------



## helmutcheese (Dec 30, 2021)

My take: Since when was aptX Hi-Res it is 16bit so CD quality, it would need be at least aptX-HD or the newer aptX Adaptive and going by specs on their site is does not have either.  Even with 2 or 3 driver with BT 5.2 Chipsets is really should have more than 7 hours battery life assuming that is with lowest codec so SBC @50% Volume so aptX @ 70-80% will be more like 4-5 hours and that is without ANC.


----------



## Cornilius

Quick and easy guidance needed my friends  

Thinking Technics eah-az70wk ($130) VS liberty 3 pro ($170)? 

I like a more "reference" sound. Personalized EQs always up the high and lower the lows... I don't like super bassy music I want vocals and instruments front & center (Ska, punk emo, jazz, some others). 

Need to rely on these for work calls, and be comfortable in ears for most of the work day 40+ hrs/wk. Any other recommendations?


----------



## Phaethon

Cornilius said:


> Quick and easy guidance needed my friends
> 
> Thinking Technics eah-az70wk ($130) VS liberty 3 pro ($170)?
> 
> ...


I don’t have the az70s but I’ve got the 60s and the L3Ps. For what it’s worth, my ears find the Soundcore have a much more colored signature that is sometimes a little mushy at the low ends, and verging on sibilant in the highs. The Technics sound crisper, cleaner and are a much more pleasing signature for me. The bass is tighter and pops; the highs drop off before they get too crispy for me. I keep the L3Ps because I can sleep in them!


----------



## FYLegend

helmutcheese said:


>



Auto-power-off is such a dealbreaker for me. What if I just want to use ANC to zone out of my surroundings, only to be woken up by a POWER OFF voice prompt?

My Dyplay Urban Traveller 2 over-ears has this issue but at least its ANC is independent of powering on the earbuds.


----------



## xSDMx

FYLegend said:


> Auto-power-off is such a dealbreaker for me. What if I just want to use ANC to zone out of my surroundings, only to be woken up by a POWER OFF voice prompt?
> 
> My Dyplay Urban Traveller 2 over-ears has this issue but at least its ANC is independent of powering on the earbuds.


Totally agree! ANC, ambient mode, etc. all should be decoupled from needing an active audio stream and considered a standalone feature.


----------



## chinmie

darveniza said:


> My wife opened a desk drawer were I placed all my TWS items and she was livid, she just told me "really!!!!!!" Do you need 20 of these for you??? And she walked away like I was a freak 🙃



reading all these horror stories, i really should consider myself lucky   

my wife and son don't bother me (anymore) about my headphone/earphone cases around the house, though they would still pop the "another one?" reality check-question everytime i received a package. 

i was chatting with my wife that i might stop buying once i got my endgame IEM (at that time it was the Inear Prophile PP8) 
this year, a friend sent me his Sony IER M9 for me to audition. she heard  me saying "wow, i think i like this one better than the PP8..." 

aaaand, she bought me an M9 as a birthday present. 
it's either that she loves me or she is taunting me on my word to stop the buying spree after that


----------



## chinmie

xSDMx said:


> Totally agree! ANC, ambient mode, etc. all should be decoupled from needing an active audio stream and considered a standalone feature.


yup, i often use my ANC TWS without music playing at all when i want to take a nap or just want to focus on something.


----------



## jant71 (Dec 30, 2021)

That FiiTii logo/lettering is trying to look like Fiil. 



FYLegend said:


> Auto-power-off is such a dealbreaker for me. What if I just want to use ANC to zone out of my surroundings, only to be woken up by a POWER OFF voice prompt?
> 
> My Dyplay Urban Traveller 2 over-ears has this issue but at least its ANC is independent of powering on the earbuds.



It should be like the AT CKS50TW does and auto off when there is no connection. Nothing has to be playing but you are connected. Not sure you can ask for more than that at this point from Chi-fi that are just getting into ANC. 

The mics don't sound so hot though.


----------



## Ceeluh7

Dsnuts said:


> Works perfectly. In fact I highly recommend just sticking with the mmcx version and just use these 2 pin adapters on top of it. I have the Penon Serial on these. Ear pieces sit firmly in place and does not move around much.
> 
> No need to buy two versions of the UTWS5. If you own a variety of IEMs using both mmcx and 2 pin this is the way to go. I have 2 pin to mmcx adaptors too but I find those to protrude a bit too much vs what


I totally agree, I have those same adapters and they work very well with the Fiio adapters. So long as your iem isn't too large. For my utws3 I purchased both the mmcx-2 pin and 2 pin to mmcx and can confirm they work very very well. I am using a 2 pin to mmcx on my utws5 right now... Works perfect, same adapters


darveniza said:


> Well my wife has asked why do we have Amazon Japan boxes arriving weekly and I just tell her maybe it's Amazon just raising awareness about their global presence and that her and my son need to stop ordering stuff 😁


That's thinking in your feet.


----------



## xSDMx

This is the last I'm going to gush about the TW2, I swear... I'm just so happy to find something that works so well for my specific use cases. Took them out for a long run paired to my Galaxy Watch4. They surprisingly sounded great even over SBC. I wonder if they're negotiating a higher bitpool than some of my other TWS when paired to my Watch4 over SBC... Ambient mode was great, but the fit is what impressed me the most. I've NEVER had any buds fit so well during a run. The aggressive earhook bend + negative profile SE846 + star tips were LOCKED IN. Really great. OK. I'm done now, I swear!


----------



## scubaphish (Dec 30, 2021)

Bump. Re read  post. Was going to ask you about which tips you’re using on the Shure


----------



## erockg (Dec 30, 2021)

For those keeping score… I got the MMCX to 2 Pin adapter.  Tried it with my Variations on the Shure TW2 2nd Gen.  The TW2s just don’t have enough power to drive the V.   That said, put the adapter on the MMCX UTWS5 and popped on the V and it works like a charm.  Like @Dsnuts said, no need to get two versions of the Fiio.  I think I’ll be returning my 2 pin version!


----------



## xSDMx

scubaphish said:


> Bump. Re read  post. Was going to ask you about which tips you’re using on the Shure


More deets: I've rolled a lot of tips on the SE846 (well before getting the TW2). Some people swear by the Spinfit CP800, but IMHO I find that the thin, sticky silicone walls collapse easily and can be picky with fitment even if the SQ is great. The CP240s, IMO hurt the beautiful bass and mids. Which is odd, given the double flange, but I suppose the wider bore causes this. The standard length, medium sized Westone star tips are just perfect for me with the SE846, both in terms of fit and sound signature. If you can still find a Westone tip fit kit, I'd grab it.


----------



## erockg

xSDMx said:


> More deets: I've rolled a lot of tips on the SE846 (well before getting the TW2). Some people swear by the Spinfit CP800, but IMHO I find that the thin, sticky silicone walls collapse easily and can be picky with fitment even if the SQ is great. The CP240s, IMO hurt the beautiful bass and mids. Which is odd, given the double flange, but I suppose the wider bore causes this. The standard length, medium sized Westone star tips are just perfect for me with the SE846, both in terms of fit and sound signature. If you can still find a Westone tip fit kit, I'd grab it.


I’ll second that.  The Westone tips are great.  I use them too.  🤘


----------



## TK33

erockg said:


> I’ll second that.  The Westone tips are great.  I use them too.  🤘


Funny I was wondering what others use on the TW2 last night as I was ordering some foam tips for my SE846.

I have Westone STAR tips on my wired SE846 but sized up to a large CP800 for my TW2 (better seal for me due to longer length).  I just ordered some of the Shure foam tips last night to put on my wired SE846 for some more isolation and hoping it will ease some of the ear pain I have been getting due to extended IEM use, which I never really got with foam tips.  With medium CP800 vs STAR, I found the STAR tips to be a bit more comfortable due to a combination of the material and a slightly shallower fit. I do find the sticky silicone material of the CP800 does create a better seal though.

Anyone using foam tips with the TWS adapters?


----------



## erockg

TK33 said:


> Funny I was wondering what others use on the TW2 last night as I was ordering some foam tips for my SE846.
> 
> I have Westone STAR tips on my wired SE846 but sized up to a large CP800 for my TW2 (better seal for me due to longer length).  I just ordered some of the Shure foam tips last night to put on my wired SE846 for some more isolation and hoping it will ease some of the ear pain I have been getting due to extended IEM use, which I never really got with foam tips.  With medium CP800 vs STAR, I found the STAR tips to be a bit more comfortable due to a combination of the material and a slightly shallower fit. I do find the sticky silicone material of the CP800 does create a better seal though.
> 
> Anyone using foam tips with the TWS adapters?


I have the Shure beans, the Comply tips, Westone, Ety double flange and all the stock Shure tips, but I keep going back to the largest Westone or the stock grey silicone.  I tend to get a better seal with silicone and like the bass with them.


----------



## Ceeluh7

erockg said:


> For those keeping score… I got the MMCX to 2 Pin adapter.  Tried it with my Variations on the Shure TW2 2nd Gen.  The TW2s just don’t have enough power to drive the V.   That said, put the adapter on the MMCX UTWS5 and popped on the V and it works like a charm.  Like @Dsnuts said, no need to get two versions of the Fiio.  I think I’ll be returning my 2 pin version!


Makes sense man... I wish I would've thought about that before I got the 2 pin. Esp since that is exactly what I did with the Utws3. I have to say that I am constantly being surprised by the utws5... They just gel with quite a number of my iems... The dac/amp is nice for sure


----------



## Phaethon

erockg said:


> For those keeping score… I got the MMCX to 2 Pin adapter.  Tried it with my Variations on the Shure TW2 2nd Gen.  The TW2s just don’t have enough power to drive the V.   That said, put the adapter on the MMCX UTWS5 and popped on the V and it works like a charm.  Like @Dsnuts said, no need to get two versions of the Fiio.  I think I’ll be returning my 2 pin version!


Congrats! What brand did you get and what sized 2 pin?


----------



## Tommy C (Dec 30, 2021)

TK33 said:


> Funny I was wondering what others use on the TW2 last night as I was ordering some foam tips for my SE846.
> 
> I have Westone STAR tips on my wired SE846 but sized up to a large CP800 for my TW2 (better seal for me due to longer length).  I just ordered some of the Shure foam tips last night to put on my wired SE846 for some more isolation and hoping it will ease some of the ear pain I have been getting due to extended IEM use, which I never really got with foam tips.  With medium CP800 vs STAR, I found the STAR tips to be a bit more comfortable due to a combination of the material and a slightly shallower fit. I do find the sticky silicone material of the CP800 does create a better seal though.
> 
> Anyone using foam tips with the TWS adapters?


I tried the stock foam tips that came on the SE215 Special Edition and while the fit was good, it changes the sound too much for me. Kind of muffled and lacking highs.

On a separate note, I was reading an old review about the SE215 Special Edition (Japan model) they said they lack sparkle - I dunno but the reviewer must have some sort of a hearing loss. I was expecting some ultra dark sound like my soul by these are tuned really nice. Highs are never too bright or hot and they have some nice on-stage like tuning - they just sound really nice for what they are with the TW2.


----------



## Firevortex

so what's the verdict? fiio utws5 or the shure tw2 in sound quality? time to stop using the TWEs i reckon.


----------



## xSDMx

Really depends on your use cases, IMO. I don't think there is one clear absolute winner. If you have something very hard to drive, probably the UTWS5. If you really appreciate polish around usability/experience and can't wait for firmware updates and fixes or if you own a negative profile IEM like a Shure or Westone, the TW2 is an easy choice.


----------



## erockg

Phaethon said:


> Congrats! What brand did you get and what sized 2 pin?


Fiio UTWS5, OEAudio MMCX to 2 Pin adapter and today using the Moondrop Variations IEM.  Good stuff!


----------



## Firevortex

helmutcheese said:


> My take: Since when was aptX Hi-Res it is 16bit so CD quality, it would need be at least aptX-HD or the newer aptX Adaptive and going by specs on their site is does not have either.  Even with 2 or 3 driver with BT 5.2 Chipsets is really should have more than 7 hours battery life assuming that is with lowest codec so SBC @50% Volume so aptX @ 70-80% will be more like 4-5 hours and that is without ANC.



saw this product few months ago on our australian dealer facebook page here is the full specs.
https://www.facebook.com/earspantech/posts/416985999818143
it does have apt-X adaptive but i don't think its Sony hi-res certified like on that alibaba link in the video.

the mifo S specs
https://www.facebook.com/earspantech/posts/416980509818692

looks like the mifo S have independent ANC mode for sleeping a standalone feature with out needing a device.


----------



## helmutcheese (Dec 31, 2021)

I do not have/do FB so cannot see the page.

This is all I see on stores pages:


----------



## Firevortex

helmutcheese said:


> I do not have/do FB so cannot see the page.


hifipods
Specs:
- Triple Driver 2x Balance Armature 1x Dynamic
- 6mic - 40DB Active Noise Cancelling
- Full IPX7 Waterproof
- Apt-X adaptive
- 7hrs Playtime

mifoS

Specs:
-Dual balanced armatures
-6Mic Active Noise Cancellation
-Full IPX7 water proof
-Sleep mode ANC active with out needing to connect to device
-Ultra Tiny. Fits in your ear for side sleepers (20% smaller than the O5) one of the smallest ANC TWE on the market.


----------



## helmutcheese

Is that two different models?


----------



## fursan7

VibrantHarmonics said:


> One thing that is a deal breaker about the Fiil T2 Pro, is that it doesn't have AptX. Is there maybe an alternative to the Fiil T2 Pro? Or should I wait for CES 2022 to see new products?


https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/fiil-t1-pro-bt5-2-ipx5-anc-tws.24694/reviews

Goto the connectivity section of Regan's review of the T1 Pro some interesting observations regarding codec bandwidth.


----------



## HaliHarry

darveniza said:


> Well my wife has asked why do we have Amazon Japan boxes arriving weekly and I just tell her maybe it's Amazon just raising awareness about their global presence and that her and my son need to stop ordering stuff 😁


it's been a long time since you mentioned victor fw1000t.  it doesn't seem like a remarkable headset


----------



## scubaphish

xSDMx said:


> More deets: I've rolled a lot of tips on the SE846 (well before getting the TW2). Some people swear by the Spinfit CP800, but IMHO I find that the thin, sticky silicone walls collapse easily and can be picky with fitment even if the SQ is great. The CP240s, IMO hurt the beautiful bass and mids. Which is odd, given the double flange, but I suppose the wider bore causes this. The standard length, medium sized Westone star tips are just perfect for me with the SE846, both in terms of fit and sound signature. If you can still find a Westone tip fit kit, I'd grab it.


Thanks a lot…everyone, for the tip info. I have a set of Shure foams in large and Shure stock grey silicon in small and medium. Using grey mediums right now while wired and fit well. Thought I had some foams in medium too, but been like 5-7 years since I picked these things up so who knows what I did with them. 

Really glad I asked the question


----------



## BooleanBones

Ruh Roh Shaggy. What a way to end 2021


----------



## Phaethon

chinmie said:


> now, out of the slew of Chi-Fi IEM companies that presented their TWS, this teaser is the one that somehow interest me. I only have heard their Oxygen, but based on reports that they have somewhat the same tuning across their IEMs, I'm hopeful that this is also tuned similarly, as they even kept their IEM shape for this TWS too
> 
> still no info on the tech side of things though...


I’ve got these coming (actually they’re in a post office 24 snowy/icy miles near my workplace) and I’ll report for you. Maybe I can pull some additional specs out/off of whatever documentation comes with them.


----------



## erockg

BooleanBones said:


> Ruh Roh Shaggy. What a way to end 2021


AWWW yeah.


----------



## Phaethon

Phaethon said:


> I’ve got these coming (actually they’re in a post office 24 snowy/icy miles near my workplace) and I’ll report for you. Maybe I can pull some additional specs out/off of whatever documentation comes with them.


Of course this OP was from months back (no idea how I finger-fumbled to there?), so there have been many earlier responses to this! 😜


----------



## darveniza

HaliHarry said:


> it's been a long time since you mentioned victor fw1000t.  it doesn't seem like a remarkable headset


It's a good set, except I keep rotating between units


----------



## BooleanBones

erockg said:


> AWWW yeah.


I will say initially, everything you have said about these is spot on. I kind of expected that since we have the same tastes in crap  So far these are exactly what I was looking for to actually listen to some music on TWS. I will follow up with some notes this weekend as I already killed the batteries that it shipped with.


----------



## guitarizt (Dec 31, 2021)

Ordered the buds pro and live today after watching crinacle's yt vid on galaxy buds. Eta jan 5. I hate my buds+. I need to try to find a good eq for linux and iphone to where I don't hate them. I used them to try a movie on my pc, and they're underwhelming to me. My shure srh-840s are where it's at, but that might not be a fair comparison. I think I might need to hit a crazy price point to get on par with this? I'm not even sure if a timeless, blessing 2, or fdx1 would get me there?

Hopefully the pros and lives will be good enough for me as a tradeoff in sound + tws, and maybe I'll get hd600s instead of going too far into iem land.


----------



## Sam L

I probably should of read through this thread more carefully before pulling the trigger in the momentum tw2. My tws purchases dropped off after my work made me use an iPhone, which sucked me into the apple eco system, feet dragging (I'm a diehard android user, viper4android, wavelet). 

My initial impression so far, with just 10 mins on them, is they are easily top tier still. But my question to all of you is, are they? I defer to you guys who have kept up with tws trends.


----------



## Ceeluh7

BooleanBones said:


> Ruh Roh Shaggy. What a way to end 2021


I'm jealous....good  for you man


----------



## erockg

BooleanBones said:


> I will say initially, everything you have said about these is spot on. I kind of expected that since we have the same tastes in crap  So far these are exactly what I was looking for to actually listen to some music on TWS. I will follow up with some notes this weekend as I already killed the batteries that it shipped with.


Nice!  Looking forward to your thoughts and observations.  Noble really did a great job sans a few features I miss.  Sound made up for it.


----------



## Ceeluh7

erockg said:


> Nice!  Looking forward to your thoughts and observations.  Noble really did a great job sans a few features I miss.  Sound made up for it.


You two are Killin me... I have to get these very soon.


----------



## Phaethon

BooleanBones said:


> Ruh Roh Shaggy. What a way to end 2021


Mine are supposed to be here today - along with my Moondrop Blessing2s. I have a pair of Moondrop Starfields I haven’t really listened to much and already want the Variations… nobody to blame but myself…


----------



## Phaethon

erockg said:


> Nice!  Looking forward to your thoughts and observations.  Noble really did a great job sans a few features I miss.  Sound made up for it.


What features do you miss? I hope the sound makes their absence Irrelevant for me as well!


----------



## erockg

Phaethon said:


> What features do you miss? I hope the sound makes their absence Irrelevant for me as well!


Passthrough/Ambient mode and wireless charging.   That's really it.  Those were on the Noble Falcon Pro buds.


----------



## BooleanBones

Phaethon said:


> What features do you miss? I hope the sound makes their absence Irrelevant for me as well!


Probably the same as me. So far Passive isolation on these is solid (passed the Dyson test earlier). The two I miss most (which I knew going in):

1. Wireless charging case
2. Ambient option (to avoid occlusion if I need to talk with someone)

I am not a big manage everything from my buds guy, so the basic controls are just fine with me. I was so excited, I did not try out other tips and used flat EQ (default) and was quite impressed. Comfort is great for me too.


----------



## BooleanBones

erockg said:


> Passthrough/Ambient mode and wireless charging.   That's really it.  Those were on the Noble Falcon Pro buds.


Now that's funny, I thought I can beat you, but apparently not.


----------



## erockg

BooleanBones said:


> Probably the same as me. So far Passive isolation on these is solid (passed the Dyson test earlier). The two I miss most (which I knew going in):
> 
> 1. Wireless charging case
> 2. Ambient option (to avoid occlusion if I need to talk with someone)
> ...


You had me at "Dyson Test."


----------



## Asoares99

Ceeluh7 said:


> You two are Killin me... I have to get these very soon.


One more here, really need to get those fast


----------



## BooleanBones

Asoares99 said:


> One more here, really need to get those fast


Not to oversell these, but so far I have only pulled one other (B&O EQ) TWS out of the box and listened to a dead battery without adjusting something. These I did not mess with a thing, which makes me more excited to use more after New Years (only because alcohol and loud TWS could be dangerous). The Noble folks did well with these for sure.


----------



## Phaethon

Asoares99 said:


> One more here, really need to get those fast


https://audio46.com/products/noble-audio-fokus-pro-true-wireless-iems  currently in stock


----------



## iFi audio

Ceeluh7 said:


> There exists an IFi Go Blu... Lol. I can't imagine it will be some monumental upgrade over qudelix



Some customers were rather happy after going from that product to GO blu, at least that's the feedback we got (partially here on Head-fi). Monumental changes would demand our xDSD Gryphon or at least xDSD, so noticeably pricier products.


----------



## scubaphish (Dec 31, 2021)

Ok, so these Shure TW2 are pretty darn sweet! Very comfortable. Not too much of a pain to get on either. But most importantly my 535 are wireless now! These things sound as amazing as when I got them 9 years ago (I think 🙄). And I wore them non-stop for years. I know the 846 are the shizznat these days, but these aren’t any slouch either. And, oh yeah, did someone say something about an EQ?  Fook ya!!  I can adjust these bad boys now, too. That’s just remarkable. These adapters have frankly extended my original investment in the 535s and given me a little joy along the way.
Thanks all for feedback to get me here.

Edit: and boy do those Gemini sound super V shaped in comparison


----------



## Tommy C

scubaphish said:


> Ok, so these Shure TW2 are pretty darn sweet! Very comfortable. Not too much of a pain to get on either. But most importantly my 535 are wireless now! These things sound as amazing as when I got them 9 years ago (I think 🙄). And I wore them non-stop for years. I know the 846 are the shizznat these days, but these aren’t any slouch either. And, oh yeah, did someone say something about an EQ?  Fook ya!!  I can adjust these bad boys now, too. That’s just remarkable. These adapters have frankly extended my original investment in the 535s and given me a little joy along the way.
> Thanks all for feedback to get me here.
> 
> Edit: and boy do those Gemini sound super V shaped in comparison


I too enjoy the TW2 a lot. Its reliability is top notch and the connection is rock solid. 
It's really good when out and about and you need a snug, secure fit. 
One thing I need to test further is the call quality outdoors. I took one phone call with it outside so far and the person on the other side told me I sounded distant so not sure about that yet.


----------



## TK33

Happy New Year! Hope everyone has a fantastic 2022 filled with many new TWS!


----------



## erockg

TK33 said:


> Happy New Year! Hope everyone has a fantastic 2022 filled with many new TWS!


Like the Fiio FH9 that arrived an hour ago!  Ugh.  You too from the West Coast.


----------



## dweaver

erockg said:


> Like the Fiio FH9 that arrived an hour ago!  Ugh.  You too from the West Coast.


Gonna test the FH9 with the Fiio TWS adapter? Really interested on what you think of their sound. When I win the lottery they are in my bucket list


----------



## guitarizt

Searched this thread and surprised there's not much talk on the timeless. From r/headphones, it looks like the timeless is arguably same tier as the blessing 2. So I could get the timeless and utws5 for not much more than the blessing 2/dusk itself which is tempting. If the galaxy pros don't do it for me, and I'm very skeptical they will, then that's my next purchase atm. Just seems too hard to beat for the price.


----------



## mtl171

I recently picked up the melomania touch for $90 and have to say I'm super impressed. Out of the box on performance mode they sound (tuning and technicality wise) close to the Fiio FD1 (my favorite IEMs around the $50 price point). Coupled with the fact that they EQ decently and they're definitely replacing my AirPod Pros for daily listening. Of course, there are some quirks like the bluetooth pairing being a hassle, touch controls not working great and lacking some more premium features like wireless charge/ear detection/more solid build/good transparency. Though for simply listening, I'm very happy with them. 

I did find it a bit odd that EQ between the android and ios app isn't 1:1. Somehow my iOS in app EQ settings sound a bit more exaggerated in the android version.


----------



## regancipher

I outdoor mic tested 28 sets of earbuds yesterday  such a mission!

I'll upload the video as soon as I can, managed to get most of the editing done just need to get permission from my mate to use one of his productions as the backing track to the intro. Long and short of it is:

- Elevoc Clear blitzed the competition.

- 6-mic buds tended to fare well. Edifier NeoBuds Pro, Huawei FreeBuds Pro and Tronsmart Apollo Air in particular.

- Taotronics SoundLiberty 80 were the pick of the budget buds (it's just a shame about everything else on them) shortly followed by the Soundpeats Air3.

- The older buds, such as Jabra Elite 75t are showing their age. Noise reduction on the 75t was worse than the £20 QCY T17. Galaxy Buds Live are nice and clear but your voice lacks a bit of naturalness.

- Newer buds in general seem to have upped their game, even the low cost ones, especially QCY.

- FIIL, and most of the Airoha-based chip models, did not perform well at all. Lots of heavy compression.


----------



## LordToneeus

mtl171 said:


> I recently picked up the melomania touch for $90 and have to say I'm super impressed. Out of the box on performance mode they sound (tuning and technicality wise) close to the Fiio FD1 (my favorite IEMs around the $50 price point). Coupled with the fact that they EQ decently and they're definitely replacing my AirPod Pros for daily listening. Of course, there are some quirks like the bluetooth pairing being a hassle, touch controls not working great and lacking some more premium features like wireless charge/ear detection/more solid build/good transparency. Though for simply listening, I'm very happy with them.
> 
> I did find it a bit odd that EQ between the android and ios app isn't 1:1. Somehow my iOS in app EQ settings sound a bit more exaggerated in the android version.


FIVE TIMES! Five times I have purchased them and returned them. I love them, but after about three days of working just fine they stop connecting automatically to my iPhone 12 Pro, and I just can’t live with that frustration. You’d think I’d learn after twice purchasing, but nooo (and even now when I see comments like this my trigger finger starts itching…)


----------



## Tommy C

Same here. I had them for almost a month. At first I liked them enough but then all the glitches started to surface which was very frustrating. It also didn't help that their sound signature was too bassy for my taste. I was able to eq them to some degree but it just wasn't enough.
The final straw was the random volume up/down right after inserting them into my ears. I could somewhat live when the volume down, but one time the volume up was piercing my ears and that was it.  
I was also never satisfied with their quality nor the sound. If I wanted to be critical sound wise I would say the mids were muddy compared to my other TWS and it was apparent when listening to some light rock where the mids are getting busy and congested and it was noticeable that the vocals aren't clear. 
All in all without the bugs it would have been a solid product but the execution was pretty bad.


----------



## erockg (Jan 1, 2022)

dweaver said:


> Gonna test the FH9 with the Fiio TWS adapter? Really interested on what you think of their sound. When I win the lottery they are in my bucket list


That's what I'm using them on right now.  I'm going to try them out on the Shure TW2 adapters as well.  What is interesting is no sound bleeds over another sound.  In other words, vocals never get drowned out, or the highs and mids.  They're very nice, built like a tank.  Got the black metal version.  I will one thing, they do not have great passive isolation and I keep trying to find the best tips.  Right now using the largest Spinfits that came with the set and they're working well.  New Years morning and everyone is still asleep so I'm trying to get my fill before the chaos begins!


----------



## erockg

Anyone heard of an issue with the MMCX to 2 Pin adapter where the sound just doesn't sound the same as a direct connection?  I'm QCing back and forth and maybe it's psychosomatic but it sounds like WITH the adapter on the Fiio UTWS5 adapters, the sound recesses into the background more.  I'm hearing this using my Moondrop Variations but when the Variations are connected to the 2 Pin Fiio adapters I'm hearing no issue.


----------



## Phaethon

Happy new year from the frigid NW! Reality check: I’ve got more gear than I can listen to - with more on the way… New Years Resolution - find more time to listen and pass some gear on to others.


----------



## Ceeluh7

LordToneeus said:


> FIVE TIMES! Five times I have purchased them and returned them. I love them, but after about three days of working just fine they stop connecting automatically to my iPhone 12 Pro, and I just can’t live with that frustration. You’d think I’d learn after twice purchasing, but nooo (and even now when I see comments like this my trigger finger starts itching…)


Dude..... I'm sorry bro.... I don't know why you kept getting lemons. I have owned mine since they came out and they have never had an issue. Sorry man, really not pouring salt in your wounds, lol, to me it is just crazy, I got in this group and hear all this talk with how bad the MT is.... Wth! I still use mine daily. Who knows maybe I got one of the only good sets... Idk


----------



## Ceeluh7

erockg said:


> Anyone heard of an issue with the MMCX to 2 Pin adapter where the sound just doesn't sound the same as a direct connection?  I'm QCing back and forth and maybe it's psychosomatic but it sounds like WITH the adapter on the Fiio UTWS5 adapters, the sound recesses into the background more.  I'm hearing this using my Moondrop Variations but when the Variations are connected to the 2 Pin Fiio adapters I'm hearing no issue.


I bought the mmcx to 2 pin adapters for my utws3 and I did not notice that issue. Who knows though man, I'll go back and forth with mine


----------



## jant71

erockg said:


> Anyone heard of an issue with the MMCX to 2 Pin adapter where the sound just doesn't sound the same as a direct connection?  I'm QCing back and forth and maybe it's psychosomatic but it sounds like WITH the adapter on the Fiio UTWS5 adapters, the sound recesses into the background more.  I'm hearing this using my Moondrop Variations but when the Variations are connected to the 2 Pin Fiio adapters I'm hearing no issue.


Any cable or even adapter can have issues with construction. Bad soldering job and you can have audible degradation.


----------



## erockg

Ceeluh7 said:


> I bought the mmcx to 2 pin adapters for my utws3 and I did not notice that issue. Who knows though man, I'll go back and forth with mine


Ugh.  Well, I researched online and one other person that I found on an Amazon review noticed the same thing.  There's definitely a difference with my Variations with and without the adapter.  Argh.


----------



## Phaethon

erockg said:


> Anyone heard of an issue with the MMCX to 2 Pin adapter where the sound just doesn't sound the same as a direct connection?  I'm QCing back and forth and maybe it's psychosomatic but it sounds like WITH the adapter on the Fiio UTWS5 adapters, the sound recesses into the background more.  I'm hearing this using my Moondrop Variations but when the Variations are connected to the 2 Pin Fiio adapters I'm hearing no issue.


Is it the same on your TW2?


----------



## erockg

jant71 said:


> Any cable or even adapter can have issues with construction. Bad soldering job and you can have audible degradation.


Yeah, kind of annoying but I guess no surprise.  Oh well.  Looks like I'll hang onto the USTWS5 2 Pin for a bit.


----------



## erockg (Jan 1, 2022)

Phaethon said:


> Is it the same on your TW2?


Oh, I didn't try that.  Will do that now.  Actually, either way, the TW2 didn't power the Variations as well, so I'll just chalk up the adapters for now.


----------



## VICosPhi

Those FH9 look so tempting! But I am too spoiled by the TWS convenience. I had FH7 and they were superb sounding, but then the MTW2 sounded nearly as good with all the TWS convenience, I think I am not going back in that rabbit hole. 

I did side by side comparisons between FH7 and MTW2 for days and yes FH7 sounded _slightly _better(especially the sub-bass quality while retaining vocals) but not enough to give up the ANC/EQ/Compact size/Smart features convenience of the TWS.


----------



## erockg

VICosPhi said:


> Those FH9 look so tempting! But I am too spoiled by the TWS convenience. I had FH7 and they were superb sounding, but then the MTW2 sounded nearly as good with all the TWS convenience, I think I am not going back in that rabbit hole.
> 
> I did side by side comparisons between FH7 and MTW2 for days and yes FH7 sounded _slightly _better(especially the sub-bass quality while retaining vocals) but not enough to give up the ANC/EQ/Compact size/Smart features convenience of the TWS.


Oh, the FH9 on the Fiio UTWS5 sound exceptionally better than the MTW2 IMO.  I do think the sub bass on the Variations is better.  But still have to listen more.  The adapters power the FH9s very well and they get nice and loud.  After a while, I wasn't a huge fan of the MTW2s because they didn't have a great EQ setup for me and they just never felt loud enough on an iPhone.  Could be I'm going deaf from all the heavy metal.  I can accept that!  I did love the high end tuning that Sennheiser added later on and I thought the ANC was decent in my world.  After a while the fit bothered me.  That said, I'm really curious what the next gen brings.  Still testing the FH9 out, but so far, they're great.  Haven't had a lot of time today to play after everyone woke up and the insanity began.


----------



## erockg

erockg said:


> Oh, I didn't try that.  Will do that now.  Actually, either way, the TW2 didn't power the Variations as well, so I'll just chalk up the adapters for now.


@Phaethon I stand corrected.  They do sound fine with the TW2 although you do need to pump the volume up louder.  Not sure if the MMCX-2 Pin adapter was just not seated correctly, but they seem to be working better now.  I hate this hobby


----------



## regancipher

regancipher said:


> I outdoor mic tested 28 sets of earbuds yesterday  such a mission!
> 
> I'll upload the video as soon as I can, managed to get most of the editing done just need to get permission from my mate to use one of his productions as the backing track to the intro. Long and short of it is:
> 
> ...




Here we go, HNY guys!


----------



## BooleanBones

regancipher said:


> Here we go, HNY guys!



Commitment right there. HNY.


----------



## mtl171

LordToneeus said:


> FIVE TIMES! Five times I have purchased them and returned them. I love them, but after about three days of working just fine they stop connecting automatically to my iPhone 12 Pro, and I just can’t live with that frustration. You’d think I’d learn after twice purchasing, but nooo (and even now when I see comments like this my trigger finger starts itching…)


Oof. Thats rough. The connection definitely is hit or miss vs APP almost always working. I have been wary of glitches so keeping the box on hand for a return.


Tommy C said:


> Same here. I had them for almost a month. At first I liked them enough but then all the glitches started to surface which was very frustrating. It also didn't help that their sound signature was too bassy for my taste. I was able to eq them to some degree but it just wasn't enough.
> The final straw was the random volume up/down right after inserting them into my ears. I could somewhat live when the volume down, but one time the volume up was piercing my ears and that was it.
> I was also never satisfied with their quality nor the sound. If I wanted to be critical sound wise I would say the mids were muddy compared to my other TWS and it was apparent when listening to some light rock where the mids are getting busy and congested and it was noticeable that the vocals aren't clear.
> All in all without the bugs it would have been a solid product but the execution was pretty bad.


It definitely is warm even after I crank the bass down. The touch controls are a mess. I had a similar issue with the volume so disabled them in the app. What other TWS were you comparing them with?


----------



## Libertad (Jan 1, 2022)

Looks like the FX100T and FW1000T are using different drivers and tips. The FW1000T looks to have a new spiral dot pros with turbulent flang bits at the rim of the tips no idea how it sound but it looks like not your fathers spiral dot tips. It's using the wood dome carbon driver from the higher end woodies too. That k2 codes sounds interesting if it works as intended.


----------



## Libertad (Jan 1, 2022)

So it is using the same driver topology of the FW10000 and FW1800 I had to check to be sure the big boy FW10000 uses the biggest size with the 1000T using the smallest


----------



## Tommy C

mtl171 said:


> Oof. Thats rough. The connection definitely is hit or miss vs APP almost always working. I have been wary of glitches so keeping the box on hand for a return.
> 
> It definitely is warm even after I crank the bass down. The touch controls are a mess. I had a similar issue with the volume so disabled them in the app. What other TWS were you comparing them with?


Back then I had the Fill T1XS, Soundcore Liberty 2 Pro+ and the Sennheiser CX 400BT to compare them to.


----------



## mtl171

Tommy C said:


> Back then I had the Fill T1XS, Soundcore Liberty 2 Pro+ and the Sennheiser CX 400BT to compare them to.


The liberty 2 pro and the t1xs were also on my short list based on comments in this thread. Ultimately ended up with the Cambridge audio as the amps and design appealed to me more. Between the soundcore and fiil, which did you prefer?


----------



## alchemical

erockg said:


> Oh, the FH9 on the Fiio UTWS5 sound exceptionally better than the MTW2 IMO.  I do think the sub bass on the Variations is better.  But still have to listen more.  The adapters power the FH9s very well and they get nice and loud.  After a while, I wasn't a huge fan of the MTW2s because they didn't have a great EQ setup for me and they just never felt loud enough on an iPhone.  Could be I'm going deaf from all the heavy metal.  I can accept that!  I did love the high end tuning that Sennheiser added later on and I thought the ANC was decent in my world.  After a while the fit bothered me.  That said, I'm really curious what the next gen brings.  Still testing the FH9 out, but so far, they're great.  Haven't had a lot of time today to play after everyone woke up and the insanity began.


How does the FH9 compare to the Fokus? Got a pair of the Nobles on the way but very tempted by the Fiios too.


----------



## erockg

alchemical said:


> How does the FH9 compare to the Fokus? Got a pair of the Nobles on the way but very tempted by the Fiios too.


Hard to compare.  IEMs are usually much much better, but the Noble Fokus really do hold their own.  I think you'll be pleasantly surprised.  I was!


----------



## alchemical

Indeed. I’m hoping the Fokus may be able to scratch that itch, but I haven’t found a TWS yet that’s kept me from going back to IEMs. Now I’m sorely tempted by the FH9/UTWS5 combo…


----------



## Tommy C (Jan 2, 2022)

mtl171 said:


> The liberty 2 pro and the t1xs were also on my short list based on comments in this thread. Ultimately ended up with the Cambridge audio as the amps and design appealed to me more. Between the soundcore and fiil, which did you prefer?


I had the Liberty 2 Pro Plus which is the upgraded version.  I didn’t like the shape of it as it was too bulky and caused some wind noise. Sound wise they are capable and have a bunch of settings to make them sound good with eq and SoundID but there was something off with their mids as they sounded great in some songs and recessed in others.
The Fiil T1XS sound good, they are tiny and isolate very well. I like their sound much better as the mids are much more natural. Also their ambient mode is much better and when they go on sale on Amazon they are $30 or even less. No brainer.


----------



## erockg

alchemical said:


> Indeed. I’m hoping the Fokus may be able to scratch that itch, but I haven’t found a TWS yet that’s kept me from going back to IEMs. Now I’m sorely tempted by the FH9/UTWS5 combo…


I'm rockin' them right now.  They do sound great, the FH9, but I just can't seem to find a tip that works with them well.  They're built like tanks, super solid.  Messing with the filters and trying to decide which I prefer.  Some say the treble one is best but to me it's bit to much.  Also, I may actually like my Variations more but they're too different to really compare.


----------



## Spidermanxd

erockg said:


> Hard to compare.  IEMs are usually much much better, but the Noble Fokus really do hold their own.  I think you'll be pleasantly surprised.  I was!


Fokus does sound great, the thing i can't stand it is that it a struggle to take it out of the case, due to strong magnetic and the iem itself very slippery


----------



## erockg

Spidermanxd said:


> Fokus does sound great, the thing i can't stand it is that it a struggle to take it out of the case, due to strong magnetic and the iem itself very slippery


Ha ha! Yes.  Me too at times.


----------



## Caipirina

jant71 said:


> I saw that review and there certainly can be a lemon but I totally threw it out cause they sound like a dummy really. Pick it up? Amazon gives you a label and you drop it off or give to a post man depending on the service. You want them to arrange for a pickup? They don't don't spend the extra so don't expect it and don't be lazy. I thought they were lazy/dumb and there was a real chance they didn't take the stickers off the contacts and that was the charge issue!


Well, I got THIS riddle solved ... unfortunately I failed to fall in love with the ATH, the battery thing is impressive, but neither the sound nor the ANC nor the fit are out of this world (for MY ears, this is all very subjective), so I thought to myself 'let's return them' ... and THIS is what I get: 



so, apparently each market place seller can set their own return rules and these guys  "on HOME" decided that somehow those TWS fall under flammable liquids ... and I see no easy way to dispute this (not that I see anywhere on the order page 'this item cannot be returned' ) ... but alas, stranger in a strange land ... guess I need to learn to love them ... or find out how to sell them to e-earphone ...


----------



## Peddler

Caipirina said:


> Well, I got THIS riddle solved ... unfortunately I failed to fall in love with the ATH, the battery thing is impressive, but neither the sound nor the ANC nor the fit are out of this world (for MY ears, this is all very subjective), so I thought to myself 'let's return them' ... and THIS is what I get:
> 
> 
> so, apparently each market place seller can set their own return rules and these guys  "on HOME" decided that somehow those TWS fall under flammable liquids ... and I see no easy way to dispute this (not that I see anywhere on the order page 'this item cannot be returned' ) ... but alas, stranger in a strange land ... guess I need to learn to love them ... or find out how to sell them to e-earphone ...


In the UK there's Distance Seller Regulations which effectively means that they have to accept them as a return within a reasonable time.  Surely their 'safety reasons' would have prevented them from sending them to you in the first place.  Report them to Amazon.


----------



## Caipirina (Jan 2, 2022)

Peddler said:


> Surely their 'safety reasons' would have prevented them from sending them to you in the first place.  Report them to Amazon.


My thoughts exactly ... if it is so dangerous, they could not have sent it ...
I am waltzing through the amazon pages and try to find an easy report thing (left seller a 1 star review so far) , but the drop down menus limit the options ..



I also might end up with a non-easy return option (which I had experienced before when a market place seller sent me a 20" screen instead of 28"!), which involves writing an address in Japanese on a post office form, then discuss with them (and confirm with seller) who pays for shipping ... all a LOT of hassle ..

I give them some more time ...

Edit: only other option amazon now offered me was 'contact seller', which I did in writing (usually they only give me a phone number), let's see what they say ...


----------



## xuan87

Has anyone posted an impression of the JVC FX100T? I scrolled back a few pages and saw a little discussion on the FX100T and FW1000T but that's it.


----------



## scubaphish

Caipirina said:


> My thoughts exactly ... if it is so dangerous, they could not have sent it ...
> I am waltzing through the amazon pages and try to find an easy report thing (left seller a 1 star review so far) , but the drop down menus limit the options ..
> 
> 
> ...


I would contact Amazon customer service directly.


----------



## Caipirina (Jan 2, 2022)

scubaphish said:


> I would contact Amazon customer service directly.


trying to find the right buttons to click ... amazon JP might be different ...
All the options bring me to the same page / same options ... 
'contact seller first' ...


----------



## scubaphish (Jan 2, 2022)

Caipirina said:


> trying to find the right buttons to click ... amazon JP might be different ...
> All the options bring me to the same page / same options ...
> 'contact seller first' ...


My bad, didn’t realize it’s Amazon JP you’re dealing with. For what it’s worth, I found this: (you probably did too)


Customer Service can be contacted via amazon.co.jp/contact-us (chat or phone).
Good luck


----------



## Caipirina (Jan 2, 2022)

scubaphish said:


> My bad, didn’t realize it’s Amazon JP you’re dealing with. For what it’s worth, I found this: (you probably did too)
> 
> 
> Customer Service can be contacted via amazon.co.jp/contact-us (chat or phone).
> Good luck


Yeah, without going into detail, from there it asks which order, and then I end up at the earlier mentioned screen.
Eventually I now selected ‘problem with delivery’ and was able to leave email for customer service. When selecting ‘return’ I end up at ‘contact seller’ 

Actually have the ATHs in my ears right now, try to grow them on me. They are not bad at all, they are doing a fine job … but .. but … something doesn’t click …


----------



## BooleanBones

Spidermanxd said:


> Fokus does sound great, the thing i can't stand it is that it a struggle to take it out of the case, due to strong magnetic and the iem itself very slippery


This is actually my only gripe with them so far. The case, while solid, needs a bit of redesign. I think if you have big/dry fingers, you might need grappling hooks to get them out  I had to reset them yesterday and got a bit frustrated popping them in and out. Outside of the case thing, these are perfect for me. Very comfortable and have not heard a song that sounded bad on them. I will be keeping these for sure, but do hope they tweak the case some. May drop them a note tomorrow. I have had an occasional hiccup in the right bud, but might that is interference or something, which I am going to monitor.


----------



## erockg

BooleanBones said:


> This is actually my only gripe with them so far. The case, while solid, needs a bit of redesign. I think if you have big/dry fingers, you might need grappling hooks to get them out  I had to reset them yesterday and got a bit frustrated popping them in and out. Outside of the case thing, these are perfect for me. Very comfortable and have not heard a song that sounded bad on them. I will be keeping these for sure, but do hope they tweak the case some. May drop them a note tomorrow. I have had an occasional hiccup in the right bud, but might that is interference or something, which I am going to monitor.


Yeah, agreed!  I do my own patented lean-dig-pull process to get the right bud out first.  Doesn’t always work!


----------



## BooleanBones

erockg said:


> Yeah, agreed!  I do my own patented lean-dig-pull process to get the right bud out first.  Doesn’t always work!


I hate to infringe on your patent, but I think I have been using it unlicensed.


----------



## AlexCBSN (Jan 2, 2022)

Mmmm reading here got me wondering, I pulled the trigger on the ath cks50tw, how’s everyone liking em? I got jvc’s 91bt from amazon japan, and even though I truly love em, the lack of an app to play around with the settings it’s kind of a bummer, recently I got lhdc on my one plus buds pro and believe me, they keep inpar with my xm4s, though the Sonys are kings with their anc and wider soundstage.

Any opinions sound wise about the ath? I was looking at the jvc woody 1000s in amazon japan (tws, too lazy to look for the model) but again… jvc lack of an app… It’s a boomer, the explosives 91s have adaptive aptx but the button interface feels cheap, the voice prompts with each command it’s annoying and overall it cheapens the experience, the driver it’s a 12mm dd that has better soundstage than the xm4s and has a massive sub bass and bass rumble … if only jvc gave some kind of extra with an interface. At least to mute prompts and a bit of eq. By the way the power amp eq app works wonders with all of my tws, though it eats a ton of battery and it’s incompatible with tidal


----------



## xSDMx

AlexCBSN said:


> Mmmm reading here got me wondering, I pulled the trigger on the ath cks50tw, how’s everyone liking em? I got jvc’s 91bt from amazon japan, and even though I truly love em, the lack of an app to play around with the settings it’s kind of a bummer, recently I got lhdc on my one plus buds pro and believe me, they keep inpar with my xm4s, though the Sonys are kings with their anc and wider soundstage.
> 
> Any opinions sound wise about the ath? I was looking at the jvc woody 1000s in amazon japan (tws, too lazy to look for the model) but again… jvc lack of an app… It’s a boomer, the explosives 91s have adaptive aptx but the button interface feels cheap, the voice prompts with each command it’s annoying and overall it cheapens the experience, the driver it’s a 12mm dd that has better soundstage than the xm4s and has a massive sub bass and bass rumble … if only jvc gave some kind of extra with an interface. At least to mute prompts and a bit of eq. By the way the power amp eq app works wonders with all of my tws, though it eats a ton of battery and it’s incompatible with tidal





Caipirina said:


> Well, I got THIS riddle solved ... unfortunately I failed to fall in love with the ATH, the battery thing is impressive, but neither the sound nor the ANC nor the fit are out of this world (for MY ears, this is all very subjective), so I thought to myself 'let's return them' ... and THIS is what I get:
> 
> 
> so, apparently each market place seller can set their own return rules and these guys  "on HOME" decided that somehow those TWS fall under flammable liquids ... and I see no easy way to dispute this (not that I see anywhere on the order page 'this item cannot be returned' ) ... but alas, stranger in a strange land ... guess I need to learn to love them ... or find out how to sell them to e-earphone ...


Some discussion a few posts above.


----------



## BooleanBones (Jan 2, 2022)

Noble Fokus Pro thoughts:

These aren't for the folks who want all the pizazz that come in mainstream TWS nowadays. So if your must haves are ANC (for white noise), ambient sound, wireless charging, all day conference calls, then you may be disappointed. The Fokus do have a nice app and EQ which allow you to customize the touch controls a bit along with sound profile customization. That said, I have listened to these quite a bit the last few days and am very pleased with the purchase. I have other TWS that handle the forementioned items well and will use them when needed, so really wanted these for the music quality without the wires and that are portable. I have run every genre imaginable through these that I would ever listen to with a big emphasis on acoustical tracks as I feel this is a good way to really hear the quality. These have handled anything with ease including bass heavy reggae. Passive isolation with a good seal is actually better at elimination my waterfall outdoors than my ANC TWS models, as well as passing the Dyson test like I mentioned the other day. I honestly have not tested nor own any TWS with the range and loudness these have. The MTs have the loudness and the EQs come close in range (don't have them to compare anymore). Like I mentioned earlier, based on what I wanted from them, the only complaints/wants from them are:

1. Wireless charging
2. Easier method of getting them out of the case (especially if you need to reset a couple times)
3. Lid seems a bit flimsy on the case, but works fine
4. Ambient mode in case need to stop and talk to someone, etc. as the isolation really magnifies occlusion in this scenario.

I will be keeping these though as these items are not deal breakers for me. I also like the idea of supporting the little guys in this space. Great sounding, sexy TWS for sure. Below are some pictures of a couple other TWS for a size comparison. Left to right - Klipsch T5 II ANC/Noble Fokus Pro/Sony XM4s


----------



## dweaver

I pulled out my ES100 and have been playing around with a few different MMCX IEMs and a Fiio 2.5mm  balanced cable. Using a few different IEMs such as the Fender FXA2, Brainwavz B400, Fiio F5 I could definitely hear more detail and each IEM had a something that stood out but I interspersed the AZ60 in my testing and was surprised at how close it came in sound quality. 

It shouldn't really surprise me as the ES100 is still taking a BT signal and converting it to music and it's LDAC is as limited as LDAC on the AZ60. The balanced cable also should also just equalize the sound since TWS should not have any cross feed since there is no ground wire to cause that issue and is the main reason for a balanced cable.

One thing I am noticing is that Technics products have a unique sound which I have to believe is the result of the Accoustic Control Chamber. Both AZ60 and AZ70 have the same enlarged sound stage and softened bass that still manage deep sub-bass. I believe that chamber achieves the sound stage at the expense of a tighter bass line. Over the years I have had other products that introduce a similar chamber or design with similar affects.

It's not perfect for all music though, but for the combination of classic rock, jazz, Celtic, classical, sound track, and variety of Accoustic music I listen to the AZ60 is damn nice.

I think it's time I wrote a review...


----------



## lycos

Happy new year everyone.

At the moment I have AKG N400 and Samsung Buds+. Looking for tws upgrade with better sound.

I dont care about features (ANC, app etc) or mic quality.
My preference is Harman neutral.

I have tried Sennheiser TWS v1 and v2 - but dont like them. 
V1 has a better resolution than v2.
But both sound veiled compared to N400 and too V-shaped.

What would be your recommendation?


----------



## erockg

lycos said:


> Happy new year everyone.
> 
> At the moment I have AKG N400 and Samsung Buds+. Looking for tws upgrade with better sound.
> 
> ...


I can't say enough good things about the Noble Fokus Pro.  Lot's of recent posts about them here.  They're awesome.


----------



## BooleanBones

erockg said:


> I can't say enough good things about the Noble Fokus Pro.  Lot's of recent posts about them here.  They're awesome.


+2 on this.


----------



## lycos

erockg said:


> Noble Fokus Pro



Thank you. It looks really good as well!


----------



## BooleanBones

lycos said:


> Thank you. It looks really good as well!


Good luck in your quest. Not sure the Noble availability there, but it sounds right up your alley based on what you want.


----------



## Caipirina

scubaphish said:


> My bad, didn’t realize it’s Amazon JP you’re dealing with. For what it’s worth, I found this: (you probably did too)
> 
> 
> Customer Service can be contacted via amazon.co.jp/contact-us (chat or phone).
> Good luck


Saga continues with a giant What? 

So far I had no chance to share a screen print with Amazon.


----------



## C_Lindbergh (Jan 2, 2022)

Is there any english reviews for the JVC kenwood HA-FW1000T?  They seem really interesting, shame that there's no way to get them in Europe!


https://www.us.jvc.com/headphones/high_resolution/ha-fw1000t/​
The Noble Fokus pro also seems interesting, but no ambient mode is a deal breaker for me for every TWS... :/


----------



## BooleanBones

Caipirina said:


> Saga continues with a giant What?
> 
> So far I had no chance to share a screen print with Amazon.


I wonder (but doubting) if this has anything to do with Covid. I know as recent as late November, it was a challenge to ship anything to Japan. We have a box of gifts to send over there, but got the run around regarding the receiving aspect of things coming from the US. Might be resolved now though, but kind of makes me wonder.


----------



## Caipirina

BooleanBones said:


> I wonder (but doubting) if this has anything to do with Covid. I know as recent as late November, it was a challenge to ship anything to Japan. We have a box of gifts to send over there, but got the run around regarding the receiving aspect of things coming from the US. Might be resolved now though, but kind of makes me wonder.


probably not in my case as I also reside in Japan   but heck, anything can now be blamed on covid, like restaurant not offering condiments anymore ...


----------



## scubaphish (Jan 2, 2022)

Caipirina said:


> probably not in my case as I also reside in Japan   but heck, anything can now be blamed on covid, like restaurant not offering condiments anymore ...


Maybe the message “For safety reasons, items containing flammable liquids or gases can't be returned to Amazon.”
Was as close as to “for safety reasons…items with possible COVID/biohazard…” as they could get

Cause nothing else makes sense unless the AZ60 are propane powered 🤷


----------



## BooleanBones

Caipirina said:


> probably not in my case as I also reside in Japan   but heck, anything can now be blamed on covid, like restaurant not offering condiments anymore ...


well, that nixes that idea


----------



## C_Lindbergh

There's a EU/US page and a manual in various European language, so hopefully that means JVC will launch the HA-FW100T in the west!  

http://www33.jvckenwood.com/pdfs/B5A-3941-00.pdf


----------



## dweaver

lycos said:


> Happy new year everyone.
> 
> At the moment I have AKG N400 and Samsung Buds+. Looking for tws upgrade with better sound.
> 
> ...


I own the original GBuds and the GBuds Pro and the pro is a significant step up from the GBuds. It has a lot of features your not interested in but it also has better sound. The bass is stronger but not to strong, mids are nice and clean, treble is nice. The original GBuds are weak in bass and a lot more thin sounding.


----------



## cresny

Caipirina said:


> probably not in my case as I also reside in Japan   but heck, anything can now be blamed on covid, like restaurant not offering condiments anymore ...


The problem with marketplace purchases is the seller can add return stipulations, and you have to check their profile for them. Maybe they had something about TWS and if so I guess that settles it.  But if not, they have to honor a return.  They can't just make something up about gas. It's not like you're expected to consider that headphones might spontaneously combust.  Check their profile page and if you're in the right, then file a complaint with Amazon.


----------



## guitarizt

dweaver said:


> I own the original GBuds and the GBuds Pro and the pro is a significant step up from the GBuds. It has a lot of features your not interested in but it also has better sound. The bass is stronger but not to strong, mids are nice and clean, treble is nice. The original GBuds are weak in bass and a lot more thin sounding.


Can't wait to try the pros vs lives vs buds+ on wed. Thinking about getting an aria or starfield to test the waters before maybe getting a dusk + utws5. The starfield is only a bit more so seems like a better buy. I think I might super hate harman curve, but we'll see how the galaxy pros do.


----------



## Canabuc

Check out Good News by MAC MILLER on Amazon Music
https://music.amazon.ca/albums/B083L6BTMC?trackAsin=B083L674MH&ref=dm_sh_mJd1vLKdPp4CENNqL0oKIIRpx 


Listening to this song on my AZ60 and wow the subbass is amazing


----------



## dweaver

The Starfield look interesting I have been tempted to try them or another Moondrop model. 

Some of the reviews suggest the GBuds Pro do not fully follow the Harmon curve being slightly more bassy than the curve. I personally am not technical enough to say for sure. But I have owned several AKG products and would say the GBuds Pro are influenced by that signature with a bit more bass heft.


----------



## Canabuc

dweaver said:


> The Starfield look interesting I have been tempted to try them or another Moondrop model.
> 
> Some of the reviews suggest the GBuds Pro do not fully follow the Harmon curve being slightly more bassy than the curve. I personally am not technical enough to say for sure. But I have owned several AKG products and would say the GBuds Pro are influenced by that signature with a bit more bass heft.


You can buy the Aria at ttaudio in Canada. Cheaper and some say better sounding than the Starfield


----------



## dweaver

Canabuc said:


> Check out Good News by MAC MILLER on Amazon Music
> https://music.amazon.ca/albums/B083L6BTMC?trackAsin=B083L674MH&ref=dm_sh_mJd1vLKdPp4CENNqL0oKIIRpx
> 
> 
> Listening to this song on my AZ60 and wow the subbass is amazing


Definitely has lots of sub-bass . Not generally the music I listen to but a nice change of pace. Always fun trying something new.


----------



## Canabuc

dweaver said:


> Definitely has lots of sub-bass . Not generally the music I listen to but a nice change of pace. Always fun trying something new.


The Technics do it great without muddying the vocals


----------



## dweaver

Canabuc said:


> You can buy the Aria at ttaudio in Canada. Cheaper and some say better sounding than the Starfield


The Aria looks interesting too. Funny I was just looking at TTAudio earlier today. Will do some more research. No budget right now so will be waiting a while before I buy anything.

I am thinking of selling off some my full size headphones and using that money to try one hi-end IEM with a good TWS adapter. Bottom line is I just don't use my full size headphones enough anymore.


----------



## dweaver

@Canabuc, give Take Five by the Dave Brubeck Quartet a try on Amazon Music if you like contemporary Jazz. Sounds awesome on the AZ60.


----------



## guitarizt

dweaver said:


> The Starfield look interesting I have been tempted to try them or another Moondrop model.
> 
> Some of the reviews suggest the GBuds Pro do not fully follow the Harmon curve being slightly more bassy than the curve. I personally am not technical enough to say for sure. But I have owned several AKG products and would say the GBuds Pro are influenced by that signature with a bit more bass heft.


Why I'm hoping I like them. I don't like the sound sig of the buds+. I've settled on the flat eq option for apple music on my iphone and they're better, but they still sound low fi to me. I think I have decent ears from playing music, wish I didn't cause I could save a ton of money on buds right now, but comparing them to the shure full size headphones, the buds+ sound in between quality levels of the 440s and 840s to me. The sound sig is more like the 940s. That being said, I _hated_ the 440s. Not usable. I love the 840s. 

I'm worried I might even have to hit the clairvoyance level to find something I like. Dusks look great, but I think the big ear nozzle would be a problem for me. I usually use medium tips. Timeless looks like a safe bet for 220. And I'll prob order the aria wed or thurs, but have a feeling I won't like it.


Canabuc said:


> You can buy the Aria at ttaudio in Canada. Cheaper and some say better sounding than the Starfield


That's what I'm getting too from looking at reviews and comments. Aria actually better, cheaper, and really hard to tell the diff in sound. That and the starfield has chipping problems with the paint.


----------



## Canabuc

dweaver said:


> @Canabuc, give Take Five by the Dave Brubeck Quartet a try on Amazon Music if you like contemporary Jazz. Sounds awesome on the AZ60.


Will do I like that piece for the soundstage and instrument separation. Haven't listened in the AZ60 yet.


----------



## dweaver

I like both GBuds Pro and AZ60 but if I could only keep one, I would choos the AZ60. It is slightly warmer sounding with a larger sound stage that I appreciate. 

The reason I recommend the GBuds Pro more for you is their less pressure in ear and more open design than the AZ60. They also sound very good, but not quite as good as the AZ60 at least for my tastes.


----------



## dweaver

guitarizt said:


> Why I'm hoping I like them. I don't like the sound sig of the buds+. I've settled on the flat eq option for apple music on my iphone and they're better, but they still sound low fi to me. I think I have decent ears from playing music, wish I didn't cause I could save a ton of money on buds right now, but comparing them to the shure full size headphones, the buds+ sound in between quality levels of the 440s and 840s to me. The sound sig is more like the 940s. That being said, I _hated_ the 440s. Not usable. I love the 840s.


OK, signature wise you might find the Buds Pro to bright, you will know on Wednesday. If they are, the AZ60 might be more to your liking at they sound very good in Transparent mode, with no ANC, and with ANC so might be a good option as well.

Or continue down the TWS / IEM combo route.


----------



## Phaethon

dweaver said:


> The Aria looks interesting too. Funny I was just looking at TTAudio earlier today. Will do some more research. No budget right now so will be waiting a while before I buy anything.
> 
> I am thinking of selling off some my full size headphones and using that money to try one hi-end IEM with a good TWS adapter. Bottom line is I just don't use my full size headphones enough anymore.


I find my B&W PX7s so physically uncomfortable and my TWS’ are so acoustically limited that IEMs and Bluetooth wireless adapters are perfect for me now. I hope my Fokus Pros can be my daily TWS and I can just whittle my collection to things I use and want to keep.


----------



## Tommy C

Phaethon said:


> I find my B&W PX7s so physically uncomfortable and my TWS’ are so acoustically limited that IEMs and Bluetooth wireless adapters are perfect for me now. I hope my Fokus Pros can be my daily TWS and I can just whittle my collection to things I use and want to keep.


Just throwing my .02 cents FWIW.
I have one set of TWS without ambient mode, think if this is important to you.
As a daily driver you may want an Ambient mode. For me it's a deal breaker as a daily driver since it's a pain in the neck to take the bud in and out of the ear, especially when there is no cable involved. Can't tell you how many times I dropped one bud because I took it out and it was dry or slippery. 
Just wanted to throw it out there


----------



## Canabuc (Jan 3, 2022)

My 2 cents:
If I don't care about ANC and ipx ratings and ambient mode, then why bother with a tws? I might as well buy a great item and if need be get a tws adapter for times a wire is too inconvenient.

Too me the beauty of a tws are these features so that you can workout and sweet with out causing damage. You can travel, be on a plane etc and block out unwanted sound.
Can go for a walk or run and still allow some outside noise in in a controlled manner to do it safely or to control it when needing to have a conversation with someone without taking them out of your ear.
Other benefits are mics for zoom or other calls.
Multipoint to connect to phone and computer or iPad to mix work play and calls.

If these aren't important then just spend 2 to 300 on an IEM and adapter and you will get great sound.


----------



## Juturna

Aghh I really want an upgrade to my Sennheiser Momentum TW2's and 1more Comfobuds Pro. They're easily my most listened to earbuds. The Senns sound good but are lacking a bit in bass for some of my music, and the 1more Comfobuds are supremely comfortable and have good call quality but just... they always sound good, maybe better than good, but they rarely impress me and the soundstage is a bit cramped. 

I didn't end up enjoying the Devialet Gemini's much at all. They're good for a small subset of my music taste but to me they always sound like they're playing the music in 128 kbps or something, and I feel like I can't eq them in a way that makes vocals sound good. Also didn't like the Sony XM4's much either. 

Where should I go next? The Fokus are too expensive (and I don't want to order from the US if it can be helped) and all those bluetooth adapters you are trying out are honestly something I would want to try in the future when they're even more discreet than now.


----------



## jant71

Juturna said:


> Aghh I really want an upgrade to my Sennheiser Momentum TW2's and 1more Comfobuds Pro. They're easily my most listened to earbuds. The Senns sound good but are lacking a bit in bass for some of my music, and the 1more Comfobuds are supremely comfortable and have good call quality but just... they always sound good, maybe better than good, but they rarely impress me and the soundstage is a bit cramped.
> 
> I didn't end up enjoying the Devialet Gemini's much at all. They're good for a small subset of my music taste but to me they always sound like they're playing the music in 128 kbps or something, and I feel like I can't eq them in a way that makes vocals sound good. Also didn't like the Sony XM4's much either.
> 
> Where should I go next? The Fokus are too expensive (and I don't want to order from the US if it can be helped) and all those bluetooth adapters you are trying out are honestly something I would want to try in the future when they're even more discreet than now.


Not that I have heard it but if you want on the cheaper side then check out the Final ZE3000. Though you don't have to order from the US, not sure if you will have a dealer close to you at this point. But I'll throw it out there anyway


----------



## Juturna

jant71 said:


> Not that I have heard it but if you want on the cheaper side then check out the Final ZE3000. Though you don't have to order from the US, not sure if you will have a dealer close to you at this point. But I'll throw it out there anyway


Looks like the US would be the closest place to buy them from, otherwise Hong Kong lol, so I don't think that's going to exactly work out. The import taxes and customs duty is pretty large if I order anything from outside of the EU I think, so could end up costing a lot more in the long run.


----------



## jant71

Juturna said:


> Looks like the US would be the closest place to buy them from, otherwise Hong Kong lol, so I don't think that's going to exactly work out. The import taxes and customs duty is pretty large if I order anything from outside of the EU I think, so could end up costing a lot more in the long run.



https://snext-final.com/en/dealers/
They are just out and are pre-order in the US unless they have gotten stock since I saw. Check the dealer list and you'll know who carries them for EU.


----------



## Canabuc

Juturna said:


> Aghh I really want an upgrade to my Sennheiser Momentum TW2's and 1more Comfobuds Pro. They're easily my most listened to earbuds. The Senns sound good but are lacking a bit in bass for some of my music, and the 1more Comfobuds are supremely comfortable and have good call quality but just... they always sound good, maybe better than good, but they rarely impress me and the soundstage is a bit cramped.
> 
> I didn't end up enjoying the Devialet Gemini's much at all. They're good for a small subset of my music taste but to me they always sound like they're playing the music in 128 kbps or something, and I feel like I can't eq them in a way that makes vocals sound good. Also didn't like the Sony XM4's much either.
> 
> Where should I go next? The Fokus are too expensive (and I don't want to order from the US if it can be helped) and all those bluetooth adapters you are trying out are honestly something I would want to try in the future when they're even more discreet than now.


2 options. Edifier NeoBuds pro.

Other and what I love are my Technics. I got them for equivalent of about 160$ US but price varies.


----------



## scubaphish

Juturna said:


> Aghh I really want an upgrade to my Sennheiser Momentum TW2's and 1more Comfobuds Pro. They're easily my most listened to earbuds. The Senns sound good but are lacking a bit in bass for some of my music, and the 1more Comfobuds are supremely comfortable and have good call quality but just... they always sound good, maybe better than good, but they rarely impress me and the soundstage is a bit cramped.
> 
> I didn't end up enjoying the Devialet Gemini's much at all. They're good for a small subset of my music taste but to me they always sound like they're playing the music in 128 kbps or something, and I feel like I can't eq them in a way that makes vocals sound good. Also didn't like the Sony XM4's much either.
> 
> Where should I go next? The Fokus are too expensive (and I don't want to order from the US if it can be helped) and all those bluetooth adapters you are trying out are honestly something I would want to try in the future when they're even more discreet than now.


If I may, the TW2 adapters are so much less obtrusive and so much more comfortable than I expected. Even with glasses. So very impressed and happy with extending life of my 535. If you have iem already, I think it can be a really good move. If you don’t already have iem that you like and want to be able to use again, I can see the hesitation.


----------



## Tommy C

scubaphish said:


> If I may, the TW2 adapters are so much less obtrusive and so much more comfortable than I expected. Even with glasses. So very impressed and happy with extending life of my 535. If you have iem already, I think it can be a really good move. If you don’t already have iem that you like and want to be able to use again, I can see the hesitation.


+1 for the TW2. They are so comfortable and I can easily wear them for hours.
Yes, the case it huge but so far it hasn't been an issue as I just throw it in my backpack.
If I need to travel lean I can either store them in a smaller case without the ability to charge which is fine because the battery life is awesome or just pick a smaller TWS.


----------



## C_Lindbergh

I asked JVC Europe about the HA-FW1000T tws:

"Thanks for your enquiry. The HA-FW1000T is already available. We distributed the first shipment across Europe in the 3rd week of December 2021."

I'm still waiting for a reply as to where exactly you can buy them  

Also what's up with Japanese companies and all the weird naming schemes?  Sony, JVC and Audio Technica all got really strange names for their various tws!


----------



## erockg

Tommy C said:


> +1 for the TW2. They are so comfortable and I can easily wear them for hours.
> Yes, the case it huge but so far it hasn't been an issue as I just throw it in my backpack.
> If I need to travel lean I can either store them in a smaller case without the ability to charge which is fine because the battery life is awesome or just pick a smaller TWS.





scubaphish said:


> If I may, the TW2 adapters are so much less obtrusive and so much more comfortable than I expected. Even with glasses. So very impressed and happy with extending life of my 535. If you have iem already, I think it can be a really good move. If you don’t already have iem that you like and want to be able to use again, I can see the hesitation.


Agree with you both.  Plus, there is no way most of us on here do not have more than one TWS.  It's just how the insane and addicted roll.


----------



## Tommy C

Canabuc said:


> 2 options. Edifier NeoBuds pro.
> 
> Other and what I love are my Technics. I got them for equivalent of about 160$ US but price varies.



I would say the AZ60 without hearing them because the NeoBuds Pro have some glitches according to some reviews and the call quality is subpar.


----------



## Tommy C (Jan 3, 2022)

C_Lindbergh said:


> I asked JVC Europe about the HA-FW1000T tws:
> 
> "Thanks for your enquiry. The HA-FW1000T is already available. We distributed the first shipment across Europe in the 3rd week of December 2021."
> 
> ...


HAHA yeah. With these brands it's always like... "New model is XH001Z5-B"...I'm having problems keeping up lol
I wish they used better naming convention.


----------



## BooleanBones

Tommy C said:


> HAHA yeah. With these brands it's always like... "New model is XH001Z5-B"...I'm having problems keeping up lol
> I wish they used better naming convention.


the one letter/number difference is such a beating for sure.


----------



## Tommy C

BooleanBones said:


> the one letter/number difference is such a beating for sure.


Yeah lol
I remember back in the day when I was looking for Audio Technica IEMs... man oh' man, I got my head spinning keeping up with their names.


----------



## Cornilius

I know that the AZ60 has support for better codecs, but is the AZ70 still a winner? It's been discounted all the way down to $120, is that a killer buy? Or were they just trash & poorly priced from day 1?

Recently I've been listening to podcasts while working. Less time on music. I think I'm going to keep my delicious pinnacle p1s for good music sessions. I think my TWS will be for occasional music, but mostly voice based content and phone calls.

I'm kind of feeling drawn to the nothings. They look comfortable and seem to fit the bill for not much money. Work day length power, and wireless charging are big bonuses. Anything else to consider? The only deal breaker would be bass heavy buds. This decision is killing me!


----------



## Luchyres

Cornilius said:


> I know that the AZ60 has support for better codecs, but is the AZ70 still a winner? It's been discounted all the way down to $120, is that a killer buy? Or were they just trash & poorly priced from day 1?
> 
> Recently I've been listening to podcasts while working. Less time on music. I think I'm going to keep my delicious pinnacle p1s for good music sessions. I think my TWS will be for occasional music, but mostly voice based content and phone calls.
> 
> I'm kind of feeling drawn to the nothings. They look comfortable and seem to fit the bill for not much money. Work day length power, and wireless charging are big bonuses. Anything else to consider? The only deal breaker would be bass heavy buds. This decision is killing me!


The AZ70 (I have not owned either) were pretty well-liked overall here are on the board - and many highlighted a more treble forward sound signature (with less bass) than the AZ60 so if you are looking to avoid bass-heavy buds I think they'd be a very good buy for you.


----------



## BooleanBones

BooleanBones said:


> This is actually my only gripe with them so far. The case, while solid, needs a bit of redesign. I think if you have big/dry fingers, you might need grappling hooks to get them out  I had to reset them yesterday and got a bit frustrated popping them in and out. Outside of the case thing, these are perfect for me. Very comfortable and have not heard a song that sounded bad on them. I will be keeping these for sure, but do hope they tweak the case some. May drop them a note tomorrow. I have had an occasional hiccup in the right bud, but might that is interference or something, which I am going to monitor.


So I sent a note to Noble on my questions and got a very quick response from them and thought to pass along for anyone that is curious. Ambient is a trade off and their focus was on sound with these. It could possibly be added in the future. Wireless charging was not possible since the case is metal, which makes sense thinking about it. The bud removal challenge can only be addressed currently by using the patented @erockg removal method


----------



## guitarizt (Jan 3, 2022)

dweaver said:


> OK, signature wise you might find the Buds Pro to bright, you will know on Wednesday. If they are, the AZ60 might be more to your liking at they sound very good in Transparent mode, with no ANC, and with ANC so might be a good option as well.
> 
> Or continue down the TWS / IEM combo route.


Or both! LOL u guys have f'ed me over. =[

I'm buying into the hype of the timeless so I'd go for those over the az60. Also prob for sure gonna order the aria wed/thurs, but waiting just in case I super love the galaxy pros or live. I would have already bought it, but the eta is late jan I think. That might lead to the dusk, but the big nozzles scare me.


----------



## Phaethon

erockg said:


> Agree with you both.  Plus, there is no way most of us on here do not have more than one TWS.  It's just how the insane and addicted roll.


+1. The only TWS I’ve really stuck to are the az60s and the xm4s. I ran through the Sennheisers, Devialets, B&Ws, and B&Os and the only ones I miss and might repurchase are the B&Os. I keep the Technics for wonderful sound and the Sonys for the feature set


----------



## erockg (Jan 3, 2022)

BooleanBones said:


> So I sent a note to Noble on my questions and got a very quick response from them and thought to pass along for anyone that is curious. Ambient is a trade off and their focus was on sound with these. It could possibly be added in the future. Wireless charging was not possible since the case is metal, which makes sense thinking about it. The bud removal challenge can only be addressed currently by using the patented @erockg removal method


Thanks for messaging them.  I do think they could've added a faux metal bottom like other manufacturers do.  The mic is pretty sensitive, so they SHOULD add ambient/transparency mode IMO.  All of this is strange to omit because the Falcon Pro had it and it too also had balanced armatures.   I bet this all due to profit margin.  Could be wrong, but ya know.  Either away, I do truly love the sound on them, even though I've been quite obsessed with my Fiio adapter/IEM combo the last week


----------



## erockg

Phaethon said:


> +1. The only TWS I’ve really stuck to are the az60s and the xm4s. I ran through the Sennheisers, Devialets, B&Ws, and B&Os and the only ones I miss and might repurchase are the B&Os. I keep the Technics for wonderful sound and the Sonys for the feature set


I love the B&O EQ even though I did just flip mine due to better options.  Had them several times even after all the defective pairs.  I can't help but think they are so nice and sexy they're just brainwashing me to keep buying them again.


----------



## Cornilius

Luchyres said:


> The AZ70 (I have not owned either) were pretty well-liked overall here are on the board - and many highlighted a more treble forward sound signature (with less bass) than the AZ60 so if you are looking to avoid bass-heavy buds I think they'd be a very good buy for you.



Thanks! I might still be a little concerned about comfort & battery life. Anyone with  experience with the 1 more comfobuds pro? Otherwise I'll probably jump on the technics.


----------



## Canabuc

Cornilius said:


> I know that the AZ60 has support for better codecs, but is the AZ70 still a winner? It's been discounted all the way down to $120, is that a killer buy? Or were they just trash & poorly priced from day 1?
> 
> Recently I've been listening to podcasts while working. Less time on music. I think I'm going to keep my delicious pinnacle p1s for good music sessions. I think my TWS will be for occasional music, but mostly voice based content and phone calls.
> 
> I'm kind of feeling drawn to the nothings. They look comfortable and seem to fit the bill for not much money. Work day length power, and wireless charging are big bonuses. Anything else to consider? The only deal breaker would be bass heavy buds. This decision is killing me!


For me I bought them last year.
Found they lacked bass and sounded great for female vocals but otherwise didn't love them.
They were quite bulbous and fell out of my ears with any exercise.
Case was on larger side and had a drain issue if you didn't use them for a few days.

To me at 160$ the AZ60 improved every aspect from sound quality battery fit etc.


----------



## Phaethon

A package from China arrived today. The Tanchjim Echo


----------



## Phaethon

And the Kinera YH802 Hybrid


----------



## Phaethon

So far the Kineras win this round. I could listen to these all day happily with zero fatigue. Quality bass instead of quantity. Middle is solid and well separated. Highs are not painfully crispy. Well balanced! An exciting listen!


----------



## LordToneeus

For the folks who want great sound, secure fit, and freedom from wires for not a lot of bread, this KZ ZAX + AZ09 combo just delights me.


----------



## dweaver

I know this is the TWS thread. But just had to say I was rummaging through my stuff and stumbled on my Sony XBA-Z5 balanced cable and went, wait a minute this should fit on my MMCX IEMs so gave it a whirl and damn if it didn't work just fine! So been listening to a the FXA2 and B400 on my Pono player and wow, you don't realize what your missing until you do! 

Both IEMs sound way above anything I have BT wise including these same IEMs I used with the ES100 with the 2.5mm balanced cable the other day.

Might just start using these with the Pono around the house and definitely at bed. I might even break down and buy another MMCX IEM and use this cable with it.


----------



## scubaphish

dweaver said:


> I know this is the TWS thread. But just had to say I was rummaging through my stuff and stumbled on my Sony XBA-Z5 balanced cable and went, wait a minute this should fit on my MMCX IEMs so gave it a whirl and damn if it didn't work just fine! So been listening to a the FXA2 and B400 on my Pono player and wow, you don't realize what your missing until you do!
> 
> Both IEMs sound way above anything I have BT wise including these same IEMs I used with the ES100 with the 2.5mm balanced cable the other day.
> 
> Might just start using these with the Pono around the house and definitely at bed. I might even break down and buy another MMCX IEM and use this cable with it.


Ha! Now that I’m using the TW2 I’m going back into this and other threads looking for IEM alternatives to the 535. Loving all the suggestions


----------



## BooleanBones

scubaphish said:


> Ha! Now that I’m using the TW2 I’m going back into this and other threads looking for IEM alternatives to the 535. Loving all the suggestions


Don’t like the 535s?


----------



## dweaver

I have to say on the Pono with the balanced cable the B400 sound amazing. Much more impressive than my original testing and review using just my Samsung S9 back in the day. Very nice affordable 4 BA IEM that works well if you want an alternative to the 535 on a budget.


----------



## scubaphish (Jan 3, 2022)

BooleanBones said:


> Don’t like the 535s?


Oh, I do!  I’ve had them for years though…first E5 then eventually the 535…and just like rest of this thread I’ve been thinking “what else is out there? What am I missing?”  Same blessing/curse 🤣

Edit: wore them for like 8 hours today


----------



## erockg

scubaphish said:


> Oh, I do!  I’ve had them for years though…first E5 then eventually the 535…and just like rest of this thread I’ve been thinking “what else is out there? What am I missing?”  Same blessing/curse 🤣
> 
> Edit: wore them for like 8 hours today


I have those SE846 but I'm currently madly in love with the Moondrop Variations and the Fiio FH9, so I get it!  Highly recommend both.


----------



## chinmie

dweaver said:


> I know this is the TWS thread. But just had to say I was rummaging through my stuff and stumbled on my Sony XBA-Z5 balanced cable and went, wait a minute this should fit on my MMCX IEMs so gave it a whirl and damn if it didn't work just fine! So been listening to a the FXA2 and B400 on my Pono player and wow, you don't realize what your missing until you do!
> 
> Both IEMs sound way above anything I have BT wise including these same IEMs I used with the ES100 with the 2.5mm balanced cable the other day.
> 
> Might just start using these with the Pono around the house and definitely at bed. I might even break down and buy another MMCX IEM and use this cable with it.



one of the key factor that i find is graininess.. TWS now can definitely get a great tuning, but there are still that apparent digital graininess (especially on the treble section).. maybe it's more got to do with the smaller amping section on TWS adding some noise, rather than the bluetooth transmission, because it's less/not apparent on my other bluetooth DAC,even the smaller ones like the ES100. 

that makes me curious to try the UTWS5 with their dedicated amp section...but perhaps later.. for now I'm content with using full TWS and KZ/TRN bt dongles for more casual listening, and my wired earphones/headphones with bigger DAC/amps when i really want to sit down and enjoy music.


----------



## scubaphish

erockg said:


> I have those SE846 but I'm currently madly in love with the Moondrop Variations and the Fiio FH9, so I get it!  Highly recommend both.


Yeah, I saw that and looked them up. Especially considering you have the 846!  But as you know, only 2 pin. Looked up an adapter, too.


----------



## erockg

scubaphish said:


> Yeah, I saw that and looked them up. Especially considering you have the 846!  But as you know, only 2 pin. Looked up an adapter, too.


It might be hard to go back to the 535 if you give these others a shot


----------



## logiatype

Took some time off from this stuff. Are there any TWS that has multipoint support? Connect to phone and PC?
Thanks and Happy New Year everyone!


----------



## Canabuc

logiatype said:


> Took some time off from this stuff. Are there any TWS that has multipoint support? Connect to phone and PC?
> Thanks and Happy New Year everyone!


Technics az60
Jabra
Huawei freebuds pro
Soundcore liberty 3 pro


----------



## logiatype

Canabuc said:


> Technics az60
> Jabra
> Huawei freebuds pro
> Soundcore liberty 3 pro


Thank you! I was just looking at the az60s. I guess hoping for a 10-channel equalizer is a bit too greedy.


----------



## Canabuc

logiatype said:


> Thank you! I was just looking at the az60s. I guess hoping for a 10-channel equalizer is a bit too greedy.


Of those soundcore has best equalizer.
I love the Technics myself. Huawei are a good all arounder. Have good ANC button control QI charging but don't have LDAC and as of now no built in equalizer. They sound on the warm side and need some EQ to get the treble better but are priced well.


----------



## cytoSiN

Has anyone auditioned the Final Audio ZE3000?  I've seen more ads for them this week and my local has them in stock, allegedly, but it's still a hike to get there to check them out, and I don't think they have a demo pair set up yet.


----------



## C_Lindbergh (Jan 4, 2022)

The JVC TWS are available on Amazon.uk, but can't seem to find them from any seller that's located within the EU

https://www.amazon.co.uk/JVC-Wood-Wireless-Headphones-HA-FW1000T/dp/B09HGGWSZL

Shipping/Import fee from Amazon UK is simply too much, I'd have to pay an extra 95 EUR.

Strange decision to just sell them on Amazon UK...


----------



## jant71 (Jan 4, 2022)

CES TOMORROW.

Looks like we got this one from Belkin...
https://ces.tech/Innovation-Awards/...UNDFORM-Immerse-Noise-Cancelling-Earbuds.aspx

Jabra Elite 4 Active... and the multipoint announcement for the 7 Pro





Knowles TWS??... https://finance.yahoo.com/news/knowles-kn-fluent-ai-offer-152903044.html
...not sure that will link right so there is this as well
https://www.owolff.com/acoustics/ne...river-for-TWS-Earphones-with-HD-Audio-and-ANC
Knowles getting even more involved in the TWS space 


JBL Quantum TWS for gaming... https://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20220104005266/en/JBL®-Introduces-First-Microphone-and-True-Wireless-Gaming-Headset-to-Award-Winning-JBL-Quantum-Range


----------



## erockg

cytoSiN said:


> Has anyone auditioned the Final Audio ZE3000?  I've seen more ads for them this week and my local has them in stock, allegedly, but it's still a hike to get there to check them out, and I don't think they have a demo pair set up yet.


I'll have a pair tomorrow and will report back.


----------



## jant71 (Jan 4, 2022)

BooleanBones said:


> So I sent a note to Noble on my questions and got a very quick response from them and thought to pass along for anyone that is curious. Ambient is a trade off and their focus was on sound with these. It could possibly be added in the future. Wireless charging was not possible since the case is metal, which makes sense thinking about it. The bud removal challenge can only be addressed currently by using the patented @erockg removal method


No more excuses for Noble  ... https://www.owolff.com/acoustics/ne...river-for-TWS-Earphones-with-HD-Audio-and-ANC

Small size, quick to market, less compromise, ANC, ambient etc in a hybrid for HQ sound and features. FoKus 2 or FoKus ANC coming to a store near you in 2022.


----------



## BooleanBones

erockg said:


> I'll have a pair tomorrow and will report back.


The ear tips themselves get me excited  "TYPE E Truly Wireless *Exclusive* Edition"


----------



## erockg

BooleanBones said:


> The ear tips themselves get me excited  "TYPE E Truly Wireless *Exclusive* Edition"


Sony thieves!!!  Also have those Marshall Motif ANC buds coming.  Sigh...   WFH is the devils workshop.


----------



## Phaethon

From yesterday’s goodies - I’ve been A/B-ing the Kinera TWS and Tanchjim Echoes (both big IEM names) and like I said, the Kineras kick butt. OTB these are a delightful tuning to  my ears. The bass slaps, but does so warmly. The trebles are distinguishable but have no sharp highs to give me listening fatigue. They are Comfobuds comfortable and as I showed in my picture yesterday, though they are stemmed, the design on them is pretty distinctive. Are there other features? I dunno… the docs are in Chinese and there’s no app I can find. I just keep poking at them to see what they can do!


----------



## jant71 (Jan 4, 2022)

Jlab continuing to strive to improve<sarcasm>...



A skin tones gimmick. If they are hearing aids that is one thing. Guess they will never really try to make something that sounds really good. That is not a demographic they care about. Just stickin' with cheaper stuff perhaps with some kinda draw and selling more with quantity
than quality.

JBL with more... https://www.techradar.com/news/jbl-unveils-yet-another-trio-of-true-wireless-earbuds-at-ces-2022
Just in case they weren't sure that they make more models of TWS than anybody else.


----------



## jant71

erockg said:


> Also have those Marshall Motif ANC buds coming.  Sigh...   WFH is the devils workshop.


Did you call your sponsor?? Any local Ear-anon meetings today you could attend?


----------



## BooleanBones

jant71 said:


> Did you call your sponsor?? Any local Ear-anon meetings today you could attend?


He is going to need a shipping/receiving department at this pace.


----------



## erockg

jant71 said:


> Did you call your sponsor?? Any local Ear-anon meetings today you could attend?


I'm on the phone with them now.  I convinced him to buy the Fokus.


----------



## erockg

BooleanBones said:


> He is going to need a shipping/receiving department at this pace.


Is this my wife?  Who is this -- ?  Boo, that you?


----------



## BooleanBones

erockg said:


> I'm on the phone with them now.  I convinced him to buy the Fokus.


By the way, you still using stock tips on the Fokus or something else?


----------



## erockg

BooleanBones said:


> By the way, you still using stock tips on the Fokus or something else?


Literally what was on them when they arrived.  They're working very well.  Was going to try others but don't seem to be having issues.


----------



## jwong

Does anyone know a good tip for the Comfobuds Pro?

I found the Sedna Crystal made for the Samsung Buds Pro are oval like the originals and are much more comfortable to me. But... they are a tad deeper and the dang Comfobuds won't charge with those tips on.


----------



## jant71 (Jan 4, 2022)

Monster DNA Fit and DNA Pro info. Fit supposedly coming out in 3 days so the first with aptX Loseless is just about here. https://nerdshala.com/monster-expands-dna-lineup-with-new-earbuds-bluetooth-speakers/
(who wrote this, btw, get a proofreader)


----------



## erockg

jant71 said:


> Jlab continuing to strive to improve<sarcasm>...
> 
> A skin tones gimmick. If they are hearing aids that is one thing. Guess they will never really try to make something that sounds really good. That is not a demographic they care about. Just stickin' with cheaper stuff perhaps with some kinda draw and selling more with quantity
> than quality.
> ...


I'll have them here Friday.  KIDDING.  Gross.


----------



## Tommy C

erockg said:


> I'll have a pair tomorrow and will report back.


I just knew you will take one for the team


----------



## erockg

Tommy C said:


> I just knew you will take one for the team


Well, now I have to sell something so I don't feel guilty.  Thanks Guys!


----------



## Phaethon

Fokus Pros just landed in my hands. Presently listen to them through my DX300. They make every genre sound exquisite. This is high end IEM sound. I have no desire to EQ them. Stock tips fit me fine, though I’ll probably test some others. Time to find the boxes for everything else and keep Amazon returns busy.


----------



## cresny

AKG fire sale is over, everything back to list price. Anyone who took advantage of it can now officially feel good about it!


----------



## Juturna

jant71 said:


> Jlab continuing to strive to improve<sarcasm>...
> 
> A skin tones gimmick. If they are hearing aids that is one thing. Guess they will never really try to make something that sounds really good. That is not a demographic they care about. Just stickin' with cheaper stuff perhaps with some kinda draw and selling more with quantity
> than quality.
> ...


I’m all for inclusion, but they’re acting as if they’ve solved a huge problem with earbuds… that they don’t match with skin tone, which hasn’t really been much of an issue… ever, I think. 

But they just raise a lot of questions. Why is the “white” earbuds pink like a pig? 
Also, is it appropriation if I buy the brown earbuds even though I’m white?


----------



## Tommy C

jwong said:


> Does anyone know a good tip for the Comfobuds Pro?
> 
> I found the Sedna Crystal made for the Samsung Buds Pro are oval like the originals and are much more comfortable to me. But... they are a tad deeper and the dang Comfobuds won't charge with those tips on.



With the Comfbuds Pro I use only the big and flat stock tips. Whatever I tried with what I've got here didn't fit well. 
Comply does fit though in the case too.


----------



## jant71 (Jan 4, 2022)

jwong said:


> Does anyone know a good tip for the Comfobuds Pro?
> 
> I found the Sedna Crystal made for the Samsung Buds Pro are oval like the originals and are much more comfortable to me. But... they are a tad deeper and the dang Comfobuds won't charge with those tips on.


You like those Crystal? Turn a pair of them inside out and slice a smidge off the stem and you are done. If you can get rid of the "tad" you should be good to go.


----------



## BooleanBones

Phaethon said:


> Fokus Pros just landed in my hands. Presently listen to them through my DX300. They make every genre sound exquisite. This is high end IEM sound. I have no desire to EQ them. Stock tips fit me fine, though I’ll probably test some others. Time to find the boxes for everything else and keep Amazon returns busy.


Glad it's not just @erockg and myself. I am quite impressed with them as a TWS (although I really wish/hope for ambient in the future).


----------



## Tommy C

BooleanBones said:


> Glad it's not just @erockg and myself. I am quite impressed with them as a TWS (although I really wish/hope for ambient in the future).



I think the lack of Ambient mode is huge let down, and I don't want to sound like a d### but Noble saying it's all about the sound, yeah possibly, but I think it's just cop out especially for the price tag, so I hope they will continue to support the product and add it through a firmware update.

With ambient mode, I would have at least tried them.


----------



## BooleanBones

Tommy C said:


> I think the lack of Ambient mode is huge let down, and I don't want to sound like a d### but Noble saying it's all about the sound, yeah possibly, but I think it's just cop out especially for the price tag, so I hope they will continue to support the product and add it through a firmware update.
> 
> With ambient mode, I would have at least tried them.


I think they float around in here from time to time, so maybe they read this stuff and jump on it. Small shop, so would not expect overly quick results like the bigger folks that can throw a bunch of bodies at it.


----------



## erockg

Tommy C said:


> I think the lack of Ambient mode is huge let down, and I don't want to sound like a d### but Noble saying it's all about the sound, yeah possibly, but I think it's just cop out especially for the price tag, so I hope they will continue to support the product and add it through a firmware update.
> 
> With ambient mode, I would have at least tried them.


I thought the same as you and then read great things.  The build is so very nice and the sound really is great.  Sure, I get it, it's s ton of $$, but I can't think of a bud I've tried recently that crushes them.  Yet.  The mold of the buds is just killer.  I have to hand it to Noble, they did a really great job and I've forgotten about ANC and Transparency/Ambient on these.  If I want the latter, I'll pop in my Marshall buds, Shure TW2 or well... yeah, I sold off most of the others.  The problem I'm having now is when I stop listening to my IEMs on an adapter or the Noble, I'm disappointed by the sound of other TWS.  Not a bad problem to have but you know.

All the above said, if we all ask, maybe they'll listen and do that ambient upgrade sooner than later.


----------



## scubaphish

Tommy C said:


> I think the lack of Ambient mode is huge let down, and I don't want to sound like a d### but Noble saying it's all about the sound, yeah possibly, but I think it's just cop out especially for the price tag, so I hope they will continue to support the product and add it through a firmware update.
> 
> With ambient mode, I would have at least tried them.


I didn’t know how much I needed ambient mode until I had it. Now can’t imagine wearing them in the house without it. (And I spend a lot of time around the house these days)


----------



## erockg

scubaphish said:


> I didn’t know how much I needed ambient mode until I had it. Now can’t imagine wearing them in the house without it. (And I spend a lot of time around the house these days)


Some days, Scuba, I don't want to hear anyone in my house.  Fact.


----------



## Tommy C

BooleanBones said:


> I think they float around in here from time to time, so maybe they read this stuff and jump on it. Small shop, so would not expect overly quick results like the bigger folks that can throw a bunch of bodies at it.



Agreed. The thing is though, the chipset is capable and has the ambient mode function but it just needs to be enabled, they also need the app to support it too. 
The app was built by a 3rd party vendor so it's a matter of pushing a new version. 
I'm familiar with these things as this is my field to some degree and I don't think it's super expensive but I think enabling ambient mode may have caused some interference to the sound/ connection and this why they opted out, at least for now.


----------



## scubaphish

erockg said:


> Some days, Scuba, I don't want to hear anyone in my house.  Fact.


Oh, I understand the desire. And I’ve got a very understanding family. But the looks I get when I’m plugged in


----------



## Tommy C

scubaphish said:


> I didn’t know how much I needed ambient mode until I had it. Now can’t imagine wearing them in the house without it. (And I spend a lot of time around the house these days)



Exactly same for me.
My old Jabra had it but it was so so, all my current TWS have it now and it's super useful, more than ANC, at least for me. 
The Sennheiser CX 400BT don't have ambient mode and while they sound great they are my night time TWS when all I need is some down town.


----------



## xSDMx

Ambient mode on the TW2s have absolutely spoiled me and there is NO going back. I can't believe I slept on these for so long just because of the cumbersome charging case. I guess ambient mode is my new TWS line in the sand.


----------



## Tommy C

erockg said:


> Some days, Scuba, I don't want to hear anyone in my house.  Fact.



I'm sure your wife is super understanding and supportive of this


----------



## erockg

scubaphish said:


> Oh, I understand the desire. And I’ve got a very understanding family. But the looks I get when I’m plugged in


I get the two hands waving in the air, mayday, mayday.


----------



## erockg

Tommy C said:


> I'm sure your wife is super understanding and supportive of this


She's a nurse and at work all day.  I'm the one suffering WFH.  Although, it's Daddy Daycare week because of COVID and my son SCREAMS at me until I go, "What? Did you say something?"


----------



## erockg

Tommy C said:


> Agreed. The thing is though, the chipset is capable and has the ambient mode function but it just needs to be enabled, they also need the app to support it too.
> The app was built by a 3rd party vendor so it's a matter of pushing a new version.
> I'm familiar with these things as this is my field to some degree and I don't think it's super expensive but I think enabling ambient mode may have caused some interference to the sound/ connection and this why they opted out, at least for now.


I still can't help but wonder if it was a cost thing, or a battery hit.  I mean, the Falcon Pros had it.  Granted it wasn't spectacularly implemented.  It's all odd.


----------



## Tommy C

xSDMx said:


> Ambient mode on the TW2s have absolutely spoiled me and there is NO going back. I can't believe I slept on these for so long just because of the cumbersome charging case. I guess ambient mode is my new TWS line in the sand.



They have another nice feature that I like. The eq has the Loudness preset and it's great when you listen to quiet music in bed or while working. You can play the music in a very low volume but it will still sound good and detailed but it feels like it's playing from another room almost... Like really far away. 
I like it when falling asleep or when I need to work and listed to something in background.


----------



## cytoSiN

erockg said:


> I get the two hands waving in the air, mayday, mayday.


My wife literally stomps up behind my office chair so I feel the floor shake...I'd have no idea otherwise...  Need to reconfigure my office so I can see the door...  Or just get something with ambient I guess?  🤷‍♂️


----------



## Tommy C

erockg said:


> She's a nurse and at work all day.  I'm the one suffering WFH.  Although, it's Daddy Daycare week because of COVID and my son SCREAMS at me until I go, "What? Did you say something?"


I'm also in the WFH club... I despise it.


----------



## erockg

cytoSiN said:


> My wife literally stomps up behind my office chair so I feel the floor shake...I'd have no idea otherwise...  Need to reconfigure my office so I can see the door...  Or just get something with ambient I guess?  🤷‍♂️


Rearview mirror?  LOL


----------



## Tommy C

cytoSiN said:


> My wife literally stomps up behind my office chair so I feel the floor shake...I'd have no idea otherwise...  Need to reconfigure my office so I can see the door...  Or just get something with ambient I guess?  🤷‍♂️


Ask her nicely to buy you something with ambient mode...


----------



## erockg

Tommy C said:


> I'm also in the WFH club... I despise it.


Dude, I'm beyond over it.  Love my new setup here, but whew, over it.  As of this moment, over Paw Patrol too.  I get it, it's brilliant.  But if it were cancelled and never to be seen again, I'd do the dance of joy.


----------



## Tommy C (Jan 4, 2022)

erockg said:


> Dude, I'm beyond over it.  Love my new setup here, but whew, over it.  As of this moment, over Paw Patrol too.  I get it, it's brilliant.  But if it were cancelled and never to be seen again, I'd do the dance of joy.


I'm expecting another year from hell here in Ontario. We are going into lockdown again. No schools until Jan 17 and no indoor dining again. Just terrible.
Hang in there.


----------



## Tommy C

erockg said:


> I still can't help but wonder if it was a cost thing, or a battery hit.  I mean, the Falcon Pros had it.  Granted it wasn't spectacularly implemented.  It's all odd.



Valid questions. I don't know how much of a hit the battery will take. ANC is more power hungry than ambient mode, but I think some showstoppers made them hold back on the ambient.


----------



## erockg

Tommy C said:


> I'm expecting another year from hell here in Ontario. We are going into lockdown again. No schools until Jan 17 and not indoor dining again. Just terrible.
> Hang in there.


Same to you.  Not literally hang.  We're not there yet here in LA, but my employer extended us to April.  I predict it'll get extended further.  Glad for the headphones distraction.


----------



## cytoSiN

erockg said:


> Rearview mirror?  LOL


****ing genius!  https://www.amazon.com/Definition-Angle-Mirror-Monitors-Anywhere/dp/B01JQTX9HG/
but I honestly don't think I can bring myself to do it


----------



## BooleanBones

Tommy C said:


> Valid questions. I don't know how much of a hit the battery will take. ANC is more power hungry than ambient mode, but I think some showstoppers made them hold back on the ambient.


Maybe extensive testing not meeting the release date (get er out the door), so rolled without it. Probably some secret company edition rolling around the shop as we speak


----------



## cytoSiN

Tommy C said:


> Ask her nicely to buy you something with ambient mode...


See this is why I hang out here, I'm surrounded by big brains!


----------



## erockg

cytoSiN said:


> ****ing genius!  https://www.amazon.com/Definition-Angle-Mirror-Monitors-Anywhere/dp/B01JQTX9HG/
> but I honestly don't think I can bring myself to do it


That might freak me out.  I'd keep thinking there was someone behind be like a horror movie.  And I love horror movies!


----------



## alchemical

Still early days with the Fokus Pro but I can confidently say already that it’s the best TWS I’ve heard by some margin. I’ve owned several including Melomania Touch, Momentum 2, EQ and PI7s, and to my ears the Fokus are a very clear cut above. Also love that they have power to spare, which has rarely been the case with other models I’ve tried.

As has been documented, the struggle to actually remove them from the case though is very real!


----------



## erockg

alchemical said:


> Still early days with the Fokus Pro but I can confidently say already that it’s the best TWS I’ve heard by some margin. I’ve owned several including Melomania Touch, Momentum 2, EQ and PI7s, and to my ears the Fokus are a very clear cut above. Also love that they have power to spare, which has rarely been the case with other models I’ve tried.
> 
> As has been documented, the struggle to actually remove them from the case though is very real!


You are free to use my patented removal process.  It's free   Truly love them as well.  Glad you dig them!


----------



## BooleanBones

alchemical said:


> Still early days with the Fokus Pro but I can confidently say already that it’s the best TWS I’ve heard by some margin. I’ve owned several including Melomania Touch, Momentum 2, EQ and PI7s, and to my ears the Fokus are a very clear cut above. Also love that they have power to spare, which has rarely been the case with other models I’ve tried.
> 
> As has been documented, the struggle to actually remove them from the case though is very real!


I ran quick test the other day at 59% for 2 hours and they still showed 90%  Had to put them up afterwards though, so couldn't run them all the way yet to see.


----------



## cytoSiN

erockg said:


> You are free to use my patented removal process.  It's free


You should sticky that post in your sig...I looked and can't find it.  I don't own the Fokus (yet), but I'm curious what this magical solution is...


----------



## BooleanBones

@erockg is working on a modified UFO catcher in his patent


----------



## erockg

BooleanBones said:


> @erockg is working on a modified UFO catcher in his patent


And a wonderful probe.  Not too invasive.


----------



## cytoSiN

BooleanBones said:


> @erockg is working on a modified UFO catcher in his patent


Ah yes, the good ole claw.  Let me know if you need a patent lawyer!


----------



## BooleanBones

erockg said:


> And a wonderful probe.  Not too invasive.


One side for the kids toys, one side for your Fokus


----------



## erockg

cytoSiN said:


> You should sticky that post in your sig...I looked and can't find it.  I don't own the Fokus (yet), but I'm curious what this magical solution is...


Just a jest between two grown up children:  https://www.head-fi.org/threads/goi...soon-or-are-we-there-yet.861024/post-16742428  but it does actually work.


----------



## erockg

BooleanBones said:


> One side for the kids toys, one side for your Fokus


Moooooon Riverrrrr.


----------



## BooleanBones (Jan 4, 2022)

erockg said:


> Moooooon Riverrrrr.


Back to seriousness, I did have my 13 year old daughter give it a whirl without any patent insight, and she pulled it right out. At least now I know who to ping if I need help.


----------



## chris the man

alchemical said:


> Still early days with the Fokus Pro but I can confidently say already that it’s the best TWS I’ve heard by some margin. I’ve owned several including Melomania Touch, Momentum 2, EQ and PI7s, and to my ears the Fokus are a very clear cut above. Also love that they have power to spare, which has rarely been the case with other models I’ve tried.
> 
> As has been documented, the struggle to actually remove them from the case though is very real!


Just wanted to say thanks for this info. This is some of the first real feedback I have seen about them.


----------



## BooleanBones

xSDMx said:


> Ambient mode on the TW2s have absolutely spoiled me and there is NO going back. I can't believe I slept on these for so long just because of the cumbersome charging case. I guess ambient mode is my new TWS line in the sand.


Crossing my fingers you guys are a good sell, got some coming Thursday. All this chitter chatter about them, couldn't resist.


----------



## alchemical

chris the man said:


> Just wanted to say thanks for this info. This is some of the first real feedback I have seen about them.


No worries at all. Very much owe one to the recommendation of @erockg @BooleanBones and others on here, and extremely glad I made the purchase.


----------



## chris the man

alchemical said:


> No worries at all. Very much owe one to the recommendation of @erockg @BooleanBones and others on here, and extremely glad I made the purchase.


You all rock! Much appreciated!!!!


----------



## Tommy C

BooleanBones said:


> Crossing my fingers you guys are a good sell, got some coming Thursday. All this chitter chatter about them, couldn't resist.


Did you purchase the adapters only or with the IEMs?


----------



## BooleanBones

Tommy C said:


> Did you purchase the adapters only or with the IEMs?


I got a bundle with the adapters and Aonic 5s. They sounded appealing, we'll see.


----------



## erockg (Jan 4, 2022)

My latest dilemma over here is about the Moondrop Variations vs the Fiio FH9 and if the FH9 are keepers for so much dough.  The sub-bass on the Variations is just amazing in comparison.  Soundstage and instrument separation on both is great.  I think the Variations need a bit more power/volume.  FH9 aren't bad _at all,_ they're beautiful, but it's that sub-bass I alway gravitate towards that makes me second guess them.  Variations have it, FH9 is okay, but not the same.  Plus, the Variations have that molded IEM shell not too different than the Fokus.  Something I truly love in an IEM.  Decisions decisions.


----------



## scubaphish

erockg said:


> My latest dilemma over here is about the Moondrop Variations vs the Fiio FH9 and if the FH9 are keepers for so much dough.  The sub-bass on the Variations is just amazing in comparison.  Soundstage and instrument separation on both is great.  I think the Variations need a bit more power/volume.  FH9 aren't bad _at all,_ they're beautiful, but it's that sub-bass I alway gravitate towards that makes me second guess them.  Variations have it, FH9 is okay, but not the same.  Plus, the Variations have that molded IEM shell not too different than the Fokus.  Something I truly love in an IEM.  Decisions decisions.


I think my next pair will be a hybrid set. I’m not ready to jump into the FH9, but read up on the FH3. Although the B400 looked very interesting too.


----------



## erockg

scubaphish said:


> I think my next pair will be a hybrid set. I’m not ready to jump into the FH9, but read up on the FH3. Although the B400 looked very interesting too.


What are the B400?


----------



## scubaphish

erockg said:


> What are the B400?


@dweaver recommended them. I think the Brainwave B400

“I have to say on the Pono with the balanced cable the B400 sound amazing. Much more impressive than my original testing and review using just my Samsung S9 back in the day. Very nice affordable 4 BA IEM that works well if you want an alternative to the 535 on a budget.”


----------



## erockg

scubaphish said:


> @dweaver recommended them. I think the Brainwave B400
> 
> “I have to say on the Pono with the balanced cable the B400 sound amazing. Much more impressive than my original testing and review using just my Samsung S9 back in the day. Very nice affordable 4 BA IEM that works well if you want an alternative to the 535 on a budget.”


Check Crinnacle:
https://crinacle.com/rankings/iems/

Not that he’s always right, but I usually refer to him and he’s usually spot on for me lately.


----------



## guitarizt

My buds live and pros came a day early. My first super fast impressions are the lives feel good and are better than the buds+. The treble is so weird on those and feels unnatural.

The pros though, wow those surprised me. Fit feels best of all 3, and the sound quality a tier higher for me that gets into the pleasurable zone. My favorite sound so far, but I want more. Gonna prob go aria next. I'd definitely recommend pros or nothing. They're just better.

I also got the wired samsung eo-ig955 $10 or free with samsung phone buds yesterday. They surprised me for $10. The bass was strong but unnatural, and the soundstage is interesting. It might have the best soundstage out of any of my limited collection of headphones.


----------



## guitarizt

Sorry for dbl post but these are really making me curious and they're enjoyable. I just ordered the utws3 from amazon warehouse as the utws5 is out of stock on amazon, aria, and timeless. lol

I'm skeptical about the ariah for 80, but I have high hopes for the timeless from all the great reviews as well as crinacle's rating. I'm kind of looking to follow his 3 star ratings, and the fdx1's are still on my radar. Maybe the dusks depending on how the arias go, but eta is like jan 23. Hopefully the timeless ends this madness for me.


----------



## Tommy C

scubaphish said:


> I think my next pair will be a hybrid set. I’m not ready to jump into the FH9, but read up on the FH3. Although the B400 looked very interesting too.



Great... Now I'm off to read some reviews.... The B400 are currently on sale here


----------



## dweaver

The Brainwavz B400 is a 4 BA plastic bean shaped IEM that's similar to Westones and Shure in shape. It has decent sound quality but until I tried it in balanced mode it had never fully caught my attention . My enjoyment is more likely due to the balanced cable and how good the Pono sounds in that configuration. But it does sound good .


----------



## C_Lindbergh (Jan 5, 2022)

I give up on the JVCs... After asking JVC reps from EU/Sweden/UK they can't give a me a define answer as to when/if they will be available from any retailer in the EU.


The latest reply from JVC UK

"We are not supplying to EU however other European subsidiaries may be selling them to EU."

Apperently JVC wants their customers to find out where you can buy a product of theirs 😂

I first contacted JVC EU, they forwarded me to JVC Sweden and JVC Sweden forwarded me to JVC UK ( which apperently is responsible for the Swedish market)... 

Ridiculous


----------



## Juturna

C_Lindbergh said:


> I give up on the JVCs... After asking JVC reps from EU/Sweden/UK they can't give a me a define answer as to when/if they will be available from any retailer in the EU.
> 
> 
> The latest reply from JVC UK
> ...


Oh, that's pretty damn stupid to have any sort of UK division of a company being responsible for the products in a EU country, especially post-Brexit...


----------



## C_Lindbergh

Juturna said:


> Oh, that's pretty damn stupid to have any sort of UK division of a company being responsible for the products in a EU country, especially post-Brexit...


Yeah.. I'm not gonna pay almost 100 EUR in extra fees just because JVC won't sell them on Amazon.de/es/it/se...


----------



## Caipirina

LordToneeus said:


> For the folks who want great sound, secure fit, and freedom from wires for not a lot of bread, this KZ ZAX + AZ09 combo just delights me.


Thanks for the reminder! I keep forgetting that I have exactly that combo, plus the ZEX (and all my other older KZ) and I am never giving then enough love ... somehow I am ANC addicted .. wonder if something like the AZ09 could ever come equipped with ANC ...


----------



## chinmie

Caipirina said:


> Thanks for the reminder! I keep forgetting that I have exactly that combo, plus the ZEX (and all my other older KZ) and I am never giving then enough love ... somehow I am ANC addicted .. wonder if something like the AZ09 could ever come equipped with ANC ...



I'm loving my AZ09 pro and BT20S pro too at this moment. the added convenience is that whenever my ears get hot or tired after longer listening sessions, i can just pull it out and juat let it dangle from my ears, while with regular tws i have to hold it in my hand/pocket or putting it in the case. i also do that as a "faux" ambient mode when i have to talk to someone.


----------



## LordToneeus

Tommy C said:


> Did you purchase the adapters only or with the IEMs?


I received the adapters last night and hooked up my SE215’s. It sure sounded good, and you guys weren’t joking about the ambient mode. I wonder how my Westone UM 30 Pro’s will sound with these. Think I’d use the SE315 setting in the app?


----------



## scubaphish (Jan 5, 2022)

LordToneeus said:


> For the folks who want great sound, secure fit, and freedom from wires for not a lot of bread, this KZ ZAX + AZ09 combo just delights me.


I forgot I started looking  into the KZ ZAX. That looks almost too good to be true , 1 DD and 7 BA for $60?! That’s some electrical engineering feat, no?

Edit: oh yeah, I think I stopped looking cause it’s 2 pin…still $80 with adapter.


----------



## cytoSiN (Jan 5, 2022)

What do folks think are the best options with a quality ambient feature?  I don't care about ANC, just ambient and sound quality.  From what I can tell, the Senns may be the best higher-end option, but reviewers point out all kinds of options, including audio lag.  So I'm open to trying whatever to get quality sound and the ability to hear my wife and kids screaming at me from outside my home office.  Thanks!


----------



## Tommy C

C_Lindbergh said:


> Yeah.. I'm not gonna pay almost 100 EUR in extra fees just because JVC won't sell them on Amazon.de/es/it/se...



Amazon UK has them if it helps. Shipping is about $25 to Canada...


----------



## Tommy C

cytoSiN said:


> What do folks think are the best options with a quality ambient feature?  I don't care about ANC, just ambient and sound quality.  From what I can tell, the Senns may be the best higher-end option, but reviewers point out all kinds of options, including audio lag.  So I'm open to trying whatever to get quality sound and the ability to hear my wife and kids screaming at me from outside my home office.  Thanks!



I have the Sennheiser CX 400BT which is supposedly the MTW2 without any of its features or high-res tuning option through the app so can't speak of their ambient mode.
They sound great though it but took me a while to appreciate their sound signature. The soundstage is very unique, it's wide, mellow and has great resolution. Not super detailed but very respectable. They have very balanced and mature sound. Not my first choice for all genres but they sound great.
One thing through, the volume has to be around 75%-80% for them to start shining.


----------



## xSDMx

cytoSiN said:


> What do folks think are the best options with a quality ambient feature?  I don't care about ANC, just ambient and sound quality.  From what I can tell, the Senns may be the best higher-end option, but reviewers point out all kinds of options, including audio lag.  So I'm open to trying whatever to get quality sound and the ability to hear my wife and kids screaming at me from outside my home office.  Thanks!


Anything from Shure or Sennheiser will have well implemented ambient mode IMHO.


----------



## scubaphish

cytoSiN said:


> What do folks think are the best options with a quality ambient feature?  I don't care about ANC, just ambient and sound quality.  From what I can tell, the Senns may be the best higher-end option, but reviewers point out all kinds of options, including audio lag.  So I'm open to trying whatever to get quality sound and the ability to hear my wife and kids screaming at me from outside my home office.  Thanks!


I know they aren’t everyone’s cup of tea, (and I’m using them much less now that I have the TW2) but I find the Devialet Gemini have a well implemented ambient mode. And I think their sq is great. WRT ambient, I’m able to hear others speak to me; and frankly I’ve forgotten to turn it off sometimes which leads me to believe they sound pretty good in ambient also. And while not on your list of requirements, the ANC is quite good, too.


----------



## cytoSiN

Any thoughts on the Master & Dynamic MW08?  Good reviews and also has ambient.


----------



## erockg

So much for ambient on the Fokus.  I emailed them as well and they said the opposite of what @BooleanBones was told!  Sad but true.

“With the FoKus we really just wanted to focus (thus the name) on sound quality. Future iterations of the FoKus will likely have ambient mode but that will be many months in the future. Unfortunately you just can’t add ambient mode after the fact. 

Cheers,

Jim”

Oh well,  I’m okay with this but it’s still odd.


----------



## BooleanBones

erockg said:


> So much for ambient on the Fokus.  I emailed them as well and they said the opposite of what @BooleanBones was told!  Sad but true.
> 
> “With the FoKus we really just wanted to focus (thus the name) on sound quality. Future iterations of the FoKus will likely have ambient mode but that will be many months in the future. Unfortunately you just can’t add ambient mode after the fact.
> 
> ...


Jim is going to get peaved at us


----------



## Phaethon

TRN BT30 has a curious QC issue. I can’t charge it because the usb c connection on the cord keeps falling out of the case. It didn’t cost enough to make a stink about it. I’ll probably cannibalize it for DIY play.


----------



## erockg

Phaethon said:


> TRN BT30 has a curious QC issue. I can’t charge it because the usb c connection on the cord keeps falling out of the case. It didn’t cost enough to make a stink about it. I’ll probably cannibalize it for DIY play.


This is exactly the problem with the last generation. That’s why I returned my pair. You could’ve only used the USB cable that came with it, no other USB cable. Are you using your own cable or the one that came with the system? What a pain!


----------



## Jmm722 (Jan 5, 2022)

I’m still using Jabra Elite 75T Active for daily use, but am looking for something new.  Is there a semi-definitive “best” TWS for hip hop.  I don’t have any real budget, probably $1,000.  Am I better off getting IEMs and Bluetooth modules for them?

I listen to hip hop, edm, movie scores and orchestral.


----------



## cytoSiN

erockg said:


> I don't know if anyone still had a pair of M&D MW08 Sport?  I really love their sound and revisited them on a Black Friday deal.  I had gotten rid of them because of a mic issue that kept presenting itself on the latest firmware update and low and behold... it's just happened again.  Awful.  Literally did a before an after.  The latest firmware update really messes up the mic for calls.  I contacted support and they're just sloooooooow.  Running it up the food chain.  Build quality and sound is top notch, even better with a BF deal, but if I can't use them for calls or Zooms... they're useless to me.  Hasta la vista, buds.


Did you ever get this sorted?  Mic issues would be a deal breaker for me...


----------



## BooleanBones

Jmm722 said:


> I’m still using Jabra Elite 75T Active, but am looking for something new.  Is there a semi-definitive “best” TWS for hip hop.  I don’t have any real budget, probably $1,000.  Am I better off getting IEMs and Bluetooth modules for them?
> 
> I listen to hip hop, edm, movie scores and orchestral.



How do you plan to use them? For general home/out and about, or for workouts too? Any features important other than SQ?


----------



## erockg

cytoSiN said:


> Did you ever get this sorted?  Mic issues would be a deal breaker for me...


I didn't.  Emailed them several times and then around the holidays they fell off the grid.  I had gotten a sick holiday deal so I sold them.  They didn't have the best transparency/ambient mode, but the sound was great.  If they would have helped me fix the issue (had the issue on several pairs after the recent update) I would have kept them.  If you get them, don't update!


----------



## Jmm722

BooleanBones said:


> How do you plan to use them? For general home/out and about, or for workouts too? Any features important other than SQ?


Just really for home use.  Jabra is used for exercise.  It’s great, but SQ could be better.   I like my Fidelio X2 for home use right now because the quality is better.  My DT770 aren’t really used anymore.

Microphone or ANC isn’t necessary, but it welcomed.  SQ is the most important, but if there’s a close second with more features, it may be considered if it’s nearly there.


----------



## erockg

Jmm722 said:


> Just really for home use.  Jabra is used for exercise.  It’s great, but SQ could be better.   I like my Fidelio X2 for home use right now because the quality is better.  My DT770 aren’t really used anymore.
> 
> Microphone or ANC isn’t necessary, but it welcomed.  SQ is the most important, but if there’s a close second with more features, it may be considered if it’s nearly there.


Sound on the Noble Fokus is amazing.  For a TWS it's amazing what they did with them.  Highly recommend.  Also, you can do great things with the Shure TW2 Second Gen adapter or the Fiio UTWS5 adapter and a good IEM.  Insane amounts of options for them.  I too listen to a ton of movie scores, albeit, and a lot of hard rock/metal.  If your budget is what you say, then I'd aim higher and get that sick sound you deserve   Mics on the Shure and Fiio work great (no one has complained).  I use them on WFH Zoom calls regularly.  Paired my Shure adapters with the SE846 and the Fiio I've been toying with Moondrop Variations and Fiio FH9 IEMs.  Probably more to come.  Once you go there, it'll be so hard to go back to the Jabra world.  At least it was for me.


----------



## BooleanBones

erockg said:


> Sound on the Noble Fokus is amazing.  For a TWS it's amazing what they did with them.  Highly recommend.  Also, you can do great things with the Shure TW2 Second Gen adapter or the Fiio UTWS5 adapter and a good IEM.  Insane amounts of options for them.  I too listen to a ton of movie scores, albeit, and a lot of hard rock/metal.  If your budget is what you say, then I'd aim higher and get that sick sound you deserve   Mics on the Shure and Fiio work great (no one has complained).  I use them on WFH Zoom calls regularly.  Paired my Shure adapters with the SE846 and the Fiio I've been toying with Moondrop Variations and Fiio FH9 IEMs.  Probably more to come.  Once you go there, it'll be so hard to go back to the Jabra world.  At least it was for me.


+2. The Fokus have handled everything I have thrown at them well, with room to spare in the volume department. I have not experienced a TWS set yet that comes close to them. They are not loaded on features, so if those are not important then they are truly great TWS. Next step would be IEMs or over the ears IMO. Within the last 10 pages, a number of notes on the Fokus in case you hadn't seen them,


----------



## C_Lindbergh

Tommy C said:


> Amazon UK has them if it helps. Shipping is about $25 to Canada...



Hmm Canada must have some kind of taxation deal with the UK then  

Id have to around 100 EUR extra in taxes for the same purchase. :/


----------



## C_Lindbergh

erockg said:


> So much for ambient on the Fokus.  I emailed them as well and they said the opposite of what @BooleanBones was told!  Sad but true.
> 
> “With the FoKus we really just wanted to focus (thus the name) on sound quality. Future iterations of the FoKus will likely have ambient mode but that will be many months in the future. Unfortunately you just can’t add ambient mode after the fact.
> 
> ...


For me an ambient mode is almost essential for TWS. Without a wire it's very annoying to take out your tws from your ear whenever you want to interact fast with someone. 

Also saves me the trouble of having to re 
-seal my tws. 

With wired earbuds you can simple let it hang out of the ear.


----------



## Phaethon

erockg said:


> This is exactly the problem with the last generation. That’s why I returned my pair. You could’ve only used the USB cable that came with it, no other USB cable. Are you using your own cable or the one that came with the system? What a pain!


My own Anker. Thanks for the tip!


----------



## erockg

C_Lindbergh said:


> For me an ambient mode is almost essential for TWS. Without a wire it's very annoying to take out your tws from your ear whenever you want to interact fast with someone.
> 
> Also saves me the trouble of having to re
> -seal my tws.
> ...


My problem is I have so many options here in front of me, one pair without ambient/transparency isn't a big deal if the sound makes up for it.  I usually prefer certain buds for calls and/or ambient anyway, ala my AirPods Max.  Really depends on the situation I'm going into.  Not everyone is like me though, I get that.


----------



## erockg

Phaethon said:


> My own Anker. Thanks for the tip!


There you go!  Yeah, it's stupid they did that.  I watched one video a while back where a guy ripped out that little metal piece so he could use his own cable.  Odd.  I had really hoped they'd fix that on the new gen.  Bummer if they didn't.


----------



## Phaethon

C_Lindbergh said:


> For me an ambient mode is almost essential for TWS. Without a wire it's very annoying to take out your tws from your ear whenever you want to interact fast with someone.
> 
> Also saves me the trouble of having to re
> -seal my tws.
> ...


Exactly why I kept my xm4s. When I have a work situation that I might be talked to, the Sonys are built for that. When I’m relaxing into some HD at home it’s the Fokus. I’m doing the IEMs with Bluetooth adapters to drive. I’m experimenting with the Fiio FH7 and the Moondrop Blessing 2. All of them have a trade-off - all of them have an ideal purpose. The Blessings are winning the IEM race for me. 

If I had to get things down to two setups 1) the Fokus; 2) the Shure adapters with the Blessing 2.


----------



## cytoSiN

Wait wait wait a second...  I can get an adapter for my Solaris and get basically the same sound and add TWS and ambient?  I've been out of this game WAY too long to only just be realizing this now.  This changes everything...


----------



## erockg

cytoSiN said:


> Wait wait wait a second...  I can get an adapter for my Solaris and get basically the same sound and add TWS and ambient?  I've been out of this game WAY too long to only just be realizing this now.  This changes everything...


Welcome to the Forum?


----------



## cytoSiN

erockg said:


> Welcome to the Forum?


Lol seriously.  It's been an insane year, I only just came back to look into getting something like the Fokus, and somehow ignored everyone's references to "adapter" until right now.  Sigh. 🤦‍♂️


----------



## erockg

cytoSiN said:


> Lol seriously.  It's been an insane year, I only just came back to look into getting something like the Fokus, and somehow ignored everyone's references to "adapter" until right now.  Sigh. 🤦‍♂️


The problem is, it just gets more expensive because for me, I keep chasing the best.  I don't even think the best exists.  Once you move to the TWS adapters and a great IEM, then you start looking at the upper echelon which IMO, you really do get what you pay for (for some of them).  I'm sitting here rocking old Thin Lizzy on my Variations with the UTWS5.  Hard to put down.


----------



## guitarizt

Phaethon said:


> Exactly why I kept my xm4s. When I have a work situation that I might be talked to, the Sonys are built for that. When I’m relaxing into some HD at home it’s the Fokus. I’m doing the IEMs with Bluetooth adapters to drive. I’m experimenting with the Fiio FH7 and the Moondrop Blessing 2. All of them have a trade-off - all of them have an ideal purpose. The Blessings are winning the IEM race for me.
> 
> If I had to get things down to two setups 1) the Fokus; 2) the Shure adapters with the Blessing 2.


Why those two? I thought you'd say something like xm4's and tw2 + blessing 2.


----------



## cytoSiN

erockg said:


> The problem is, it just gets more expensive because for me, I keep chasing the best.  I don't even think the best exists.  Once you move to the TWS adapters and a great IEM, then you start looking at the upper echelon which IMO, you really do get what you pay for (for some of them).  I'm sitting here rocking old Thin Lizzy on my Variations with the UTWS5.  Hard to put down.




Yeah I paid enough for my OG Solaris...I'd rather spend 2-3hundred on good adapters for them than that same amount on a separate set of just TWS.  Also Thunder and Lightning kicks ass, RIP Phil!


----------



## Phaethon

guitarizt said:


> Why those two? I thought you'd say something like xm4's and tw2 + blessing 2.


My job is much too active to get to wear anything, but if I could I would use the Sonys. I bought them when I was shopping for TWS and I really can’t return them. I would if I could though. But as you can see in my signature I’ve got a bunch stashed in a drawer and I’ve tested and rejected high and middle price models.


----------



## erockg

cytoSiN said:


> Yeah I paid enough for my OG Solaris...I'd rather spend 2-3hundred on good adapters for them than that same amount on a separate set of just TWS.  Also Thunder and Lightning kicks ass, RIP Phil!


Love me some TL with Sykes on guitar.


----------



## C_Lindbergh

cytoSiN said:


> Wait wait wait a second...  I can get an adapter for my Solaris and get basically the same sound and add TWS and ambient?  I've been out of this game WAY too long to only just be realizing this now.  This changes everything...


The downside with the adapters are the increased size of both the case and actual adapters. 

Also you miss out on various technical features like ANC etc. 

Buut each to their own, I don't think I'll go the adapter route since I really much like the tiny size of a TWS case


----------



## LordToneeus

cytoSiN said:


> Any thoughts on the Master & Dynamic MW08?  Good reviews and also has ambient.


I think they are absolutely beautiful, so I couldn't resist trying them out.  I bought the green Sport version.  Alas, with the lack of the MW07's fin, they would not stay in my ear, and I wasn't about to drop that much cash on something that didn't absolutely satisfy, so back they went.  Sound was *good* as best I could tell, but I wasn't blown away by the ANC (then again, I didn't keep them long once I figured out they weren't going to sit tight).


----------



## BobJS

Hey, I'd like to thank this thread EVER so much (can you hear the sarcasm?) for the glowing reviews of the Fokus Pro.  I had $100 worth of loyalty points at Audio 46 and they had $50 off an open box, so I'm gonna give it a shot.

Because I NEED another TWS.


----------



## Ceeluh7

guitarizt said:


> Sorry for dbl post but these are really making me curious and they're enjoyable. I just ordered the utws3 from amazon warehouse as the utws5 is out of stock on amazon, aria, and timeless. lol
> 
> I'm skeptical about the ariah for 80, but I have high hopes for the timeless from all the great reviews as well as crinacle's rating. I'm kind of looking to follow his 3 star ratings, and the fdx1's are still on my radar. Maybe the dusks depending on how the arias go, but eta is like jan 23. Hopefully the timeless ends this madness for me.


Aria is a good set man... No doubt.


----------



## scubaphish

LordToneeus said:


> I think they are absolutely beautiful, so I couldn't resist trying them out.  I bought the green Sport version.  Alas, with the lack of the MW07's fin, they would not stay in my ear, and I wasn't about to drop that much cash on something that didn't absolutely satisfy, so back they went.  Sound was *good* as best I could tell, but I wasn't blown away by the ANC (then again, I didn't keep them long once I figured out they weren't going to sit tight).


Same experience here, non-sport version fwiw


----------



## Ceeluh7

scubaphish said:


> I forgot I started looking  into the KZ ZAX. That looks almost too good to be true , 1 DD and 7 BA for $60?! That’s some electrical engineering feat, no?
> 
> Edit: oh yeah, I think I stopped looking cause it’s 2 pin…still $80 with adapter.


Go with the KZ ZAS over the Zax.... Imo if you went that route


----------



## Ceeluh7

scubaphish said:


> I think my next pair will be a hybrid set. I’m not ready to jump into the FH9, but read up on the FH3. Although the B400 looked very interesting too.


I've owned the Fiio fh3 for quite some time and personally enjoy them a bit more than the pricier Fiio Earphones. They are one of the pairs that I actually held onto and they are very nice.


----------



## scubaphish

Ceeluh7 said:


> I've owned the Fiio fh3 for quite some time and personally enjoy them a bit more than the pricier Fiio Earphones. They are one of the pairs that I actually held onto and they are very nice.


After I saw what the FH9 cost, I took long hard look at the FH3. Thanks for validation


----------



## erockg

scubaphish said:


> After I saw what the FH9 cost, I took long hard look at the FH3. Thanks for validation


Yeah, definitely $$$.  Can't really compare the two.  Although, I'm not sure they're worth the price.  Still debating.  They are pretty damn good though.  Definitely better than the FA9 by far IMO.


----------



## Phaethon

erockg said:


> Yeah, definitely $$$.  Can't really compare the two.  Although, I'm not sure they're worth the price.  Still debating.  They are pretty damn good though.  Definitely better than the FA9 by far IMO.


The FH7 has a great sound but it doesn’t entice me to listen. The Blessing 2 sings the siren song. And I’m enjoying the Kinera TWS so much that I’m going to have to try one of their IEMs soon.


----------



## Ceeluh7

scubaphish said:


> After I saw what the FH9 cost, I took long hard look at the FH3. Thanks for validation


It is no doubt a top 5 choice under 200, a very highly regarded set that sounds good imo across the board. I actually have it in one of my Utws3's at the moment and it sounds fantastic man. I'd take fh3 over fh5, fd5, and maybe fh7.... Of course this is my opinion and I don't want to sell it too hard as there are other really great iems in that price point


----------



## Ceeluh7

So I have the TRI I3 Pro attached to the IFi Go Blu.......good Lord sweet Audio.... That Sub Bass and resolution between the two is stellar. If I have it in me I am going to attach the I3 Pro to the UTWS5.... I'm thinking it'll be a wonderful marriage. I know this isn't tws but I figured I'd share something that I've been jamming to of late. I think the UTWS5 will be perfect for a set like the TRI. Can't believe I haven't tried it yet


----------



## erockg

Ceeluh7 said:


> So I have the TRI I3 Pro attached to the IFi Go Blu.......good Lord sweet Audio.... That Sub Bass and resolution between the two is stellar. If I have it in me I am going to attach the I3 Pro to the UTWS5.... I'm thinking it'll be a wonderful marriage. I know this isn't tws but I figured I'd share something that I've been jamming to of late. I think the UTWS5 will be perfect for a set like the TRI. Can't believe I haven't tried it yet


I'm looking away.


----------



## BooleanBones

erockg said:


> I'm looking away.


Yeah right. Maybe looking away to click "Submit Order" button on another screen


----------



## erockg

BooleanBones said:


> Yeah right. Maybe looking away to click "Submit Order" button on another screen


I do have more than one screen here. Good thinking.


----------



## Ceeluh7

erockg said:


> I'm looking away.


Something sweet about this set-up. I love the Qudelix 5k but there is a fullness to the IFi Go Blu... I really enjoy it. There isn't an app like the BTR5 or qudelix but it is just done well. The TRI I wanted to check out for awhile because of the tribrid Dynamic/Planar/BA drivers...they did so well with the cohesion in this set between the 3 drivers, not easy to do.


----------



## jant71

Ceeluh7 said:


> I've owned the Fiio fh3 for quite some time and personally enjoy them a bit more than the pricier Fiio Earphones. They are one of the pairs that I actually held onto and they are very nice.


I am enjoying the JH3 quite a bit. Doesn't have to be the best technical earphone but the signature and personality is up their with the best for me. So many times they try to get the resolution and the most extension on the highs or try to force detail and they lose the engagement and fun and immersion factor. JH3 is better than its price but won't take home the technical crown but but it does everything pretty good and has a draw in all three areas so that it only gives you positive and fun traits blended together in a more special way than a lot of earphones and that has nothing to do with price. 

CKS50TW is also a very good all rounder and with EQ and losing the bit of heft it has when outside it makes a lot of sense. Big and enjoyable out there playing ball or in the winter wind is sounds more like a headphone. Not as good sitting around indoors comparing on technical merits but for it's intended use as a portable makes it shine more plus it just works with no issues and has good ergonomics and battery life is a non issue. Besides it is just a 5 series which is the middle since AT goes 1,3,5,7, and 9.

Unless they nail the fun and likable listen as well I will usually take the more enjoyable one. The best performers have not been my favorites as much as some lower models have been. Tough to get both my preferred taste and great ability combined.


----------



## erockg

Ceeluh7 said:


> Something sweet about this set-up. I love the Qudelix 5k but there is a fullness to the IFi Go Blu... I really enjoy it. There isn't an app like the BTR5 or qudelix but it is just done well. The TRI I wanted to check out for awhile because of the tribrid Dynamic/Planar/BA drivers...they did so well with the cohesion in this set between the 3 drivers, not easy to do.


I'm surprised you got them over the 7hertz or Autumn you were talking about.  Unless those are coming...  I kind of wish I would've held onto the 7hertz to try with the Fiio adapters since they have more power than the Shure.  I'm afraid if I head down an amp route I'll feed the insanity.  Although, I'm not into the wired setups these days.  I'm moving around too much.  Beats the days when I'd stick a Discman in my pocket for walks around Philly during snowstorms.


----------



## LordToneeus

erockg said:


> I'm surprised you got them over the 7hertz or Autumn you were talking about.  Unless those are coming...  I kind of wish I would've held onto the 7hertz to try with the Fiio adapters since they have more power than the Shure.  I'm afraid if I head down an amp route I'll feed the insanity.  Although, I'm not into the wired setups these days.  I'm moving around too much.  Beats the days when I'd stick a Discman in my pocket for walks around Philly during snowstorms.


I carried a Discman around in my fanny pack at the gym back in the late 90s, and I carried one to class in my pocket as late as 2004 during law school.  In fact, it was the little Sony earbuds with the foam covers that came with the Discman that made me fall in love with all things head-fi.


----------



## erockg

LordToneeus said:


> I carried a Discman around in my fanny pack at the gym back in the late 90s, and I carried one to class in my pocket as late as 2004 during law school.  In fact, it was the little Sony earbuds with the foam covers that came with the Discman that made me fall in love with all things head-fi.


I remember oversampling was a big thing and mine sucked.  But I just went with it.  If anything stutters these days, we're like... yeah, this is going back.  F this!


----------



## BooleanBones

LordToneeus said:


> I carried a Discman around in my fanny pack at the gym back in the late 90s, and I carried one to class in my pocket as late as 2004 during law school.  In fact, it was the little Sony earbuds with the foam covers that came with the Discman that made me fall in love with all things head-fi.


If it makes you two feel any better, I still have my Discman


----------



## cytoSiN

LordToneeus said:


> I carried a Discman around in my fanny pack at the gym back in the late 90s, and I carried one to class in my pocket as late as 2004 during law school.  In fact, it was the little Sony earbuds with the foam covers that came with the Discman that made me fall in love with all things head-fi.


Wow we had very similar experiences, including the Discman in law school in 04...I had the thin blue one with the 20 seconds ESP, thought it was the coolest thing ever!


----------



## erockg

BooleanBones said:


> If it makes you two feel any better, I still have my Discman


This truly does make me feel better.  


cytoSiN said:


> Wow we had very similar experiences, including the Discman in law school in 04...I had the thin blue one with the 20 seconds ESP, thought it was the coolest thing ever!


All I can say is you're welcome everyone.  Happy to bring up old memories for us all.  Now lets talk about all that grey.


----------



## cytoSiN

BooleanBones said:


> If it makes you two feel any better, I still have my Discman


This old thing? 









Loved this thing too:







In retrospect, Sony straight had me back in the day...


----------



## Ceeluh7

jant71 said:


> I am enjoying the JH3 quite a bit. Doesn't have to be the best technical earphone but the signature and personality is up their with the best for me. So many times they try to get the resolution and the most extension on the highs or try to force detail and they lose the engagement and fun and immersion factor. JH3 is better than its price but won't take home the technical crown but but it does everything pretty good and has a draw in all three areas so that it only gives you positive and fun traits blended together in a more special way than a lot of earphones and that has nothing to do with price.
> 
> CKS50TW is also a very good all rounder and with EQ and losing the bit of heft it has when outside it makes a lot of sense. Big and enjoyable out there playing ball or in the winter wind is sounds more like a headphone. Not as good sitting around indoors comparing on technical merits but for it's intended use as a portable makes it shine more plus it just works with no issues and has good ergonomics and battery life is a non issue. Besides it is just a 5 series which is the middle since AT goes 1,3,5,7, and 9.
> 
> Unless they nail the fun and likable listen as well I will usually take the more enjoyable one. The best performers have not been my favorites as much as some lower models have been. Tough to get both my preferred taste and great ability combined.


So you have the Jh3? I was about to get that on a 50% discount when I bought the Fiio Ka3. I didn't end up getting it but kind of wish I had. The other Jade Audio iems were actually decent.. Ea1, ea3. Very cool man, I will have to pick those up. Also, I checked Amazon for the AT CKS50TW and could not seem to find it there. Unfortunately at the time Amazon Gift cards were my only currency... Lol.


----------



## erockg (Jan 5, 2022)

Sooooo... these Final ZE3000 just arrived.  I have to admit, I thought they wouldn't fit me.  But they fit me perfectly.  Weird because they are so odd looking.  The case is insanely light and about the size of a Jabra 75T case.  No wireless charging.  They packed some nice sub-bass in these.  Literally just popped them in, but so far not bad.  No app yet but when you click through to the site it says the English version is still being built.  Lame, but I didn't even know there was an app coming, so happy accident?


----------



## erockg

cytoSiN said:


> This old thing?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I just fell off my dinosaur and broke my wooden underwear.


----------



## cytoSiN

erockg said:


> Sooooo... these just arrived.  I have to admit, I thought they wouldn't fit me.  But they fit me perfectly.  Weird because they are so odd looking.  The case is insanely light and about the size of a Jabra 75T case.  No wireless charging.  They packed some nice sub-bass in these.  Literally just popped them in, but so far not bad.  No app yet but when you click through to the site it says the English version is still being built.  Lame, but I didn't even know there was an app coming, so happy accident?


Nice, been waiting for this.  No ambient though right?


----------



## BooleanBones

Ceeluh7 said:


> So you have the Jh3? I was about to get that on a 50% discount when I bought the Fiio Ka3. I didn't end up getting it but kind of wish I had. The other Jade Audio iems were actually decent.. Ea1, ea3. Very cool man, I will have to pick those up. Also, I checked Amazon for the AT CKS50TW and could not seem to find it there. Unfortunately at the time Amazon Gift cards were my only currency... Lol.


I think the ATs are only on Amazon Japan as far as Amazon goes


----------



## cytoSiN (Jan 5, 2022)

erockg said:


> I just fell off my dinosaur and broke my wooden underwear.


My minidisc player is offended!  I will have you know that in a world before the ipod, minidisc was awesome!  So much easier than burning CDs.


----------



## erockg

cytoSiN said:


> Nice, been waiting for this.  No ambient though right?


No ambient or wireless charging.  I'm not sure what their app will bring, but I knew that going in.


----------



## Ceeluh7

erockg said:


> I'm surprised you got them over the 7hertz or Autumn you were talking about.  Unless those are coming...  I kind of wish I would've held onto the 7hertz to try with the Fiio adapters since they have more power than the Shure.  I'm afraid if I head down an amp route I'll feed the insanity.  Although, I'm not into the wired setups these days.  I'm moving around too much.  Beats the days when I'd stick a Discman in my pocket for walks around Philly during snowstorms.


I was surprised as well. I really liked the original i3's and after reading so many favorable reviews... Tight, big, clean Bass... Nice mids, great highs... Couldn't resist. I'm happy I went the tribrid route here. Most of the time I prefer single DD's but TRI knows what they are doing. Ill pick up the 7 hz second hand one of these days maybe. As far as the Autumn, the only thing that kept me from going that route was the smaller bass. Not worse bass but smaller bass. If I know me.... I'll get it eventually though.


----------



## erockg

BooleanBones said:


> I think the ATs are only on Amazon Japan as far as Amazon goes


Yeah, that's where I got them.  Sadly, Amazon Japan doesn't take the Amazon US giftcard (at least I couldn't figure it out).


----------



## Ceeluh7

BooleanBones said:


> I think the ATs are only on Amazon Japan as far as Amazon goes


That makes sense. They look like one hell of a pair


----------



## erockg

cytoSiN said:


> My minidisc player is offended!  I will have you know that in a world before the ipod, minidisc was the absolute crap!  So much easier than burning CDs.


See, I was the CD burner and downloader.  Pretty much got rid of all my CDs and then the last two years started collecting vinyl again incase they're an apocalypse and all the digital music of the world is wiped out forever.  Never know, right?  Kidding.  I think.


----------



## cytoSiN

erockg said:


> See, I was the CD burner and downloader.  Pretty much got rid of all my CDs and then the last two years started collecting vinyl again incase they're an apocalypse and all the digital music of the world is wiped out forever.  Never know, right?  Kidding.  I think.


Yeah I was burning CDs too, mostly to make mixes and to take my large collection, which had been digitized from CD in the preceding years (beginning in '98 with my first burner) portable again after I had got rid of the original CDs.  I still keep my collection mostly digital, backed up in a few places.  The minidisc was almost like a USB stick with a headphone jack.  They wrote faster than CD and were easier to rewrite.  Then apple and iriver came and wrecked the MDplayer forever.  Like the HDDVD, it wasn't meant to last...


----------



## Ceeluh7

erockg said:


> Sooooo... these Final ZE3000 just arrived.  I have to admit, I thought they wouldn't fit me.  But they fit me perfectly.  Weird because they are so odd looking.  The case is insanely light and about the size of a Jabra 75T case.  No wireless charging.  They packed some nice sub-bass in these.  Literally just popped them in, but so far not bad.  No app yet but when you click through to the site it says the English version is still being built.  Lame, but I didn't even know there was an app coming, so happy accident?


Very curious about these as well. Are they the typical Final Audio warm presentation. Be cool if it was. I heard they were going for the E3000 basically in tws form, not sure how true that is. Anyways, looking forward to your thoughts


----------



## jant71 (Jan 5, 2022)

Ceeluh7 said:


> So you have the Jh3? I was about to get that on a 50% discount when I bought the Fiio Ka3. I didn't end up getting it but kind of wish I had. The other Jade Audio iems were actually decent.. Ea1, ea3. Very cool man, I will have to pick those up. Also, I checked Amazon for the AT CKS50TW and could not seem to find it there. Unfortunately at the time Amazon Gift cards were my only currency... Lol.


Always wish I could load Amazon gift cards I get to Amazon JP. By the time they bring the CKS50 to the us it will be old lol. Not that it doesn't have most features and the record for battery life but the whole slew of LE stuff will be out and it will only Adaptive though it does have 360 audio.  

JH3 for $30 would be a great deal. I got the $39.99 Amazon deal. Not quite the hype like Flagship drivers but well above the price. Main points are the crossover point is no issue and the mids for a DD/2BA are some of the best for the price in all ways and stage is big and even in the 3D's and bass that is well done with a sub that thumps but midbass that is tight and quick ands clean so drums are done right and bass guitar is very immersive and all down low stay out of each others way in it's own place. So they take advantage of the 13.6mm and the better magnet strength shows with better dynamics and separation. The BA's are brighter and are done quite well to not offend even being in the bore and tryling for "less loss". Detail, energy, and higher priced extension but quite nice to push more treble w/o negative effects. Also a cable i don't mind even being more TWS based now since it is very well behaved for noise and suppleness and weight.



erockg said:


> Sooooo... these Final ZE3000 just arrived.  I have to admit, I thought they wouldn't fit me.  But they fit me perfectly.  Weird because they are so odd looking.  The case is insanely light and about the size of a Jabra 75T case.  No wireless charging.  They packed some nice sub-bass in these.  Literally just popped them in, but so far not bad.  No app yet but when you click through to the site it says the English version is still being built.  Lame, but I didn't even know there was an app coming, so happy accident?Stock


Stock pics would seem to make them look bigger than they really are. I know some seem scared of the fit. The f-core models so far have good size soundstages. Does this follow that trend?


----------



## erockg

Ceeluh7 said:


> Very curious about these as well. Are they the typical Final Audio warm presentation. Be cool if it was. I heard they were going for the E3000 basically in tws form, not sure how true that is. Anyways, looking forward to your thoughts


I've never bought a Final product before.  They're slightly warm with a really nice kick to the sub-bass.  I'm listening to the newest Iron Maiden album right now with them and they sound great.  Soundstage is wide.  I can hear Dickinson's ssss clearly.  Not sibilance, just clarity.  I might actually prefer the overall fit and design of the little Marshall Mode II buds I have.  They have wireless charging, passthrough, EQ and auto pause when you take them out.  I have the Marshall Motif ANC version coming because I wanted to see if those were better and return one of the Marshall buds.  The Final buds are definitely cleaner and have better instrument separation.  Bass is tight, whereas the bass is bigger and bleeds on the Marshall.  The Marshall buds are definitely cool in their own right for what they are, just nitpicking.  Both small and fun.  Marshall are EQ'd, the Finals are not.  So after the long winded comparison no one asked for, the Finals sound better than my Marshall buds but the Marshalls are smaller with better features, if you need that.


----------



## erockg

jant71 said:


> Always wish I could load Amazon gift cards I get to Amazon JP. By the time they bring the CKS50 to the us it will be old lol. Not that it doesn't have most features and the record for battery life but the whole slew of LE stuff will be out and it will only Adaptive though it does have 360 audio.
> 
> JH3 for $30 would be a great deal. I got the $39.99 Amazon deal. Not quite the hype like Flagship drivers but well above the price. Main points are the crossover point is no issue and the mids for a DD/2BA are some of the best for the price in all ways and stage is big and even in the 3D's and bass that is well done with a sub that thumps but midbass that is tight and quick ands clean so drums are done right and bass guitar is very immersive and all down low stay out of each others way in it's own place. So they take advantage of the 13.6mm and the better magnet strength shows with better dynamics and separation. The BA's are brighter and are done quite well to not offend even being in the bore and tryling for "less loss". Detail, energy, and higher priced extension but quite nice to push more treble w/o negative effects. Also a cable i don't mind even being more TWS based now since it is very well behaved for noise and suppleness and weight.
> 
> ...


Absolutely, I'm sitting here with them in and yes, the soundstage is wide.  Very enjoyable.


----------



## jant71

erockg said:


> Absolutely, I'm sitting here with them in and yes, the soundstage is wide.  Very enjoyable.


Oh, and what about those E series for wireless tips?? What are they about?


----------



## erockg

jant71 said:


> Oh, and what about those E series for wireless tips?? What are they about?


Ha ha! I thought @BooleanBones would beat you to the punch with that question.


----------



## mikp

ive been out of the loop since my mtw2 arrived. Are there any new one sout with ldac\aptx adaptive etc with full control options on them? Been wanting to try the sonys, but lack of control is a dealbreaker


----------



## BooleanBones

erockg said:


> Ha ha! I thought @BooleanBones would beat you to the punch with that question.


Had to step away for a bit or I am sure I would have won  Those tips look very exclusive.


----------



## Dobrescu George

My second review of 2022 is going to be something light and easy, a TWS IEM Review that I promised I'd finish in 2021...  

I totally forgot about those ones, so today we take a look at Tranya B530, a TWS IEM with a really nice sonic signature, good value, and good comfort too! 

Read more about this entry-level option with an alien design in the full written review~  

https://www.audiophile-heaven.com/2022/01/tranya-b530-pro-tws-iems-alien-sounds.html


----------



## Ceeluh7

Dobrescu George said:


> My second review of 2022 is going to be something light and easy, a TWS IEM Review that I promised I'd finish in 2021...
> 
> I totally forgot about those ones, so today we take a look at Tranya B530, a TWS IEM with a really nice sonic signature, good value, and good comfort too!
> 
> ...


That's funny, someone else reviewed these recently.... Not too bad for a budget set if  I recall.... Cool man


----------



## Tommy C

erockg said:


> My problem is I have so many options here in front of me, one pair without ambient/transparency isn't a big deal if the sound makes up for it.  I usually prefer certain buds for calls and/or ambient anyway, ala my AirPods Max.  Really depends on the situation I'm going into.  Not everyone is like me though, I get that.


"I got ninety nine problems but a _Ambient _ain't one, hit me!"


----------



## Tommy C (Jan 5, 2022)

cytoSiN said:


> Lol seriously.  It's been an insane year, I only just came back to look into getting something like the Fokus, and somehow ignored everyone's references to "adapter" until right now.  Sigh. 🤦‍♂️


Same here. The Shure TW2 is a really nice product and you can pair it with the Campfire Audio, maybe something from their ALO Deals site if you don't mind the tiny cosmetic imperfections.  Might be a sick setup for much less than MSRP.


----------



## scubaphish (Jan 5, 2022)

Tommy C said:


> Same here. The Shure TW2 is a really nice product and you can pair it with the Campfire Audio, maybe something from their ALO Deals site if you don't mind the tiny cosmetic imperfections.  Might be a sick setup for much less the MSRP.


Oh do tell!  On campfire’s site?

Edit: found it


----------



## Tommy C

scubaphish said:


> Oh do tell!  On campfire’s site?
> 
> Edit: found it


Hide your credit card... 
https://aloaudio.deals


----------



## cresny (Jan 5, 2022)

So off-off topic I know, but I was so impressed by the AKG n400nc that I picked up their n60nc for $60. They have the same super-nice build and similar sound quality, and a really comfy, nice break for TWS-worn ears. Just posting to say they can still be had for that price here: https://www.ebay.com/itm/224618080410?chn=ps&mkevt=1&mkcid=28 (picture seems to vary form description which does not state NC. I know there was a wired version but this one looks ok)


----------



## Tommy C

scubaphish said:


> Oh do tell!  On campfire’s site?
> 
> Edit: found it



Some B-stock are often out of stock but if you check regularly they often become available.


----------



## scubaphish (Jan 5, 2022)

bump


----------



## Dobrescu George

Ceeluh7 said:


> That's funny, someone else reviewed these recently.... Not too bad for a budget set if  I recall.... Cool man



I am always happy to help! 

They are interesting, this has to have been one of my most delayed reviews. For no real reason, just forgot about them


----------



## Ceeluh7

Dobrescu George said:


> I am always happy to help!
> 
> They are interesting, this has to have been one of my most delayed reviews. For no real reason, just forgot about them


All good man. I enjoy your reviews dude. Entertaining and thoughtful for sure, keep it up as it helps all of us crazy audio people out.... Alot. Take care


----------



## cytoSiN

Tommy C said:


> Same here. The Shure TW2 is a really nice product and you can pair it with the Campfire Audio, maybe something from their ALO Deals site if you don't mind the tiny cosmetic imperfections.  Might be a sick setup for much less the MSRP.


For better or worse I'm balls deep in my OG Solaris in terms of spend.  I love them, but it's a bit of a hassle to get the cables out, get comfortable, and then hope I'm not disturbed and have to break the seal...  So they don't get as much use as I'd like, especially now that I'm not commuting every day anymore.  If I could add ambient and adapters to them that would be very cool indeed.


----------



## Benedict Leung

erockg said:


> I've never bought a Final product before.  They're slightly warm with a really nice kick to the sub-bass.  I'm listening to the newest Iron Maiden album right now with them and they sound great.  Soundstage is wide.  I can hear Dickinson's ssss clearly.  Not sibilance, just clarity.  I might actually prefer the overall fit and design of the little Marshall Mode II buds I have.  They have wireless charging, passthrough, EQ and auto pause when you take them out.  I have the Marshall Motif ANC version coming because I wanted to see if those were better and return one of the Marshall buds.  The Final buds are definitely cleaner and have better instrument separation.  Bass is tight, whereas the bass is bigger and bleeds on the Marshall.  The Marshall buds are definitely cool in their own right for what they are, just nitpicking.  Both small and fun.  Marshall are EQ'd, the Finals are not.  So after the long winded comparison no one asked for, the Finals sound better than my Marshall buds but the Marshalls are smaller with better features, if you need that.


Final boasts these to be the best sounding TWS out there. Would you agree with that? 
What are your thoughts when you compare the ze3000 to the top dogs such as FoKus?
Thanks!


----------



## jant71 (Jan 5, 2022)

Benedict Leung said:


> Final boasts these to be the best sounding TWS out there. Would you agree with that?
> What are your thoughts when you compare the ze3000 to the top dogs such as FoKus?
> Thanks!



Nah, they and I quote them..."we set our goal to surpass the sound quality of the E3000". That will be very good sounding but both are 3 series so in the middle and the Noble should best the E3000. Remember that is E3000 and not A3000 but the older model. Best sounding TWS with that level and charging $159 in Japan and $179 in the US. If they thought it was the best and things like the Noble and JVC are $330-$350 that would be very nice of them to give us such a good deal.  Erockg will confirm but my bet is Noble wins out for overall SQ but Final is a better value.


----------



## erockg

jant71 said:


> Nah, they and I quote them..."we set our goal to surpass the sound quality of the E3000". That will be very good sounding but both are 3 series so in the middle and the Noble should best the E3000. Remember that is E3000 and not A3000 but the older model. Best sounding TWS with that level and charging $150 in Japan and $179 in the US. If they thought it was the best and things like the Noble and JVC are $330-$350 that would be very nice of them to give us such a good deal.  Erockg will confirm but my bet is Noble wins out for overall SQ but Final is a better value.


I concur.  Last line says it all.  Using the Final buds now.  Sharp edges may bother some folks ears.  Fokus fit is perfect imo.


----------



## Phaethon

Open box Fokus for $296
https://audio46.com/products/noble-audio-fokus-pro-true-wireless-iems-open-box


----------



## dweaver

mikp said:


> ive been out of the loop since my mtw2 arrived. Are there any new one sout with ldac\aptx adaptive etc with full control options on them? Been wanting to try the sonys, but lack of control is a dealbreaker


The AZ60 have LDAC and full controls.


----------



## cytoSiN

dweaver said:


> The AZ60 have LDAC and full controls.


How's SQ?  Anyone compare to Fokus?  Or the Sonys or Senns at least, since both have ambient (important for me) like the AZ60?


----------



## BooleanBones

cytoSiN said:


> How's SQ?  Anyone compare to Fokus?  Or the Sonys or Senns at least, since both have ambient (important for me) like the AZ60?


I have AZ60s, XM4s, and Fokus. The Fokus are in a different class all together. The AZs and XM4s both have their bright points. I think the AZs actually have a bit better SQ and sparkle to them over the XM4s in the SQ department. I use the XM4s more than the AZs due to comfort and features I tend to use more (pause to ambient), but a toss up to me really.


----------



## erockg

cytoSiN said:


> How's SQ?  Anyone compare to Fokus?  Or the Sonys or Senns at least, since both have ambient (important for me) like the AZ60?


You can't compare them IMO.  For me, Fokus crushed them in sound quality.


----------



## BooleanBones (Jan 5, 2022)

erockg said:


> You can't compare them IMO.  For me, Fokus crushed them in sound quality.


I would say if the ambient is a must have, the only thing I have heard in the full featured TWS earbud market that would approach the Fokus in the SQ department are the B&O EQ. Still not comparable, but they sound very nice and are a really nice build. They are not for volume lovers though.


----------



## cytoSiN

BooleanBones said:


> I would say if the ambient is a must have, the only thing I have heard in the full featured TWS market that would approach the Fokus in the SQ department are the B&O EQ. Still not comparable, but they sound very nice and are a really nice build. They are not for volume lovers though.



I dunno, I don't think I can take B&O products seriously even though I have no good reason.  I just don't understand their pricing I guess.  In any event, I am unabashedly a volume lover, so that's a problem.  Perhaps I'm overrating ambience if I'm going to crank the volume anyway?  Does it really work well at high volume?  I'm currently deafening myself to some Turnstile using my WH-1000XM3 because they were close and I couldn't be bothered to get up and plug in my Solaris...


----------



## BooleanBones

cytoSiN said:


> I dunno, I don't think I can take B&O products seriously even though I have no good reason.  I just don't understand their pricing I guess.  In any event, I am unabashedly a volume lover, so that's a problem.  Perhaps I'm overrating ambience if I'm going to crank the volume anyway?  Does it really work well at high volume?  I'm currently deafening myself to some Turnstile using my WH-1000XM3 because they were close and I couldn't be bothered to get up and plug in my Solaris...


I am with you there, I love goosebumps once in a while  If it helps in any of your decision making, the Fokus will send you to the ear doctor at max volume  The XM4s and AZs crank up there well too.


----------



## rhsauer

erockg said:


> I didn't.  Emailed them several times and then around the holidays they fell off the grid.  I had gotten a sick holiday deal so I sold them.  They didn't have the best transparency/ambient mode, but the sound was great.  If they would have helped me fix the issue (had the issue on several pairs after the recent update) I would have kept them.  If you get them, don't update!


There was a firmware update to the MW08's a few weeks after the mic issues emerged that fixed the problem (at least on my set).


----------



## erockg

BooleanBones said:


> I would say if the ambient is a must have, the only thing I have heard in the full featured TWS earbud market that would approach the Fokus in the SQ department are the B&O EQ. Still not comparable, but they sound very nice and are a really nice build. They are not for volume lovers though.


I truly loved the EQ.  I wish they got louder like you on my iPhone and were maybe 325-350.  I think they hit 360 on Amazon after I had already gotten them.  They're sexy.  Beautiful case, decent ANC and ambient/transparency worked really well.


----------



## erockg

rhsauer said:


> There was a firmware update to the MW08's a few weeks after the mic issues emerged that fixed the problem (at least on my set).


I had them about two weeks ago.  Got them during the holiday 30% off sale, update and woof... total mic failure.  Firmware V4.3.5.  You're so very lucky.  I did a before and after audio test and it was amazing that it happened to me again.  No lie, that was my third pair that the fw botched the mic on me.


----------



## erockg

cytoSiN said:


> I dunno, I don't think I can take B&O products seriously even though I have no good reason.  I just don't understand their pricing I guess.  In any event, I am unabashedly a volume lover, so that's a problem.  Perhaps I'm overrating ambience if I'm going to crank the volume anyway?  Does it really work well at high volume?  I'm currently deafening myself to some Turnstile using my WH-1000XM3 because they were close and I couldn't be bothered to get up and plug in my Solaris...





BooleanBones said:


> I am with you there, I love goosebumps once in a while  If it helps in any of your decision making, the Fokus will send you to the ear doctor at max volume  The XM4s and AZs crank up there well too.


@BooleanBones is right.  The Fokus go to 11.


----------



## guitarizt

erockg said:


> I'm surprised you got them over the 7hertz or Autumn you were talking about.  Unless those are coming...  I kind of wish I would've held onto the 7hertz to try with the Fiio adapters since they have more power than the Shure.  I'm afraid if I head down an amp route I'll feed the insanity.  Although, I'm not into the wired setups these days.  I'm moving around too much.  Beats the days when I'd stick a Discman in my pocket for walks around Philly during snowstorms.


From what ppl are saying, I doubt more power would make the timeless better esp if you weren't liking them. I did see one yt person give the timeless a C, I feel bad I can't remember their name offhand and Im late for work again so can't look it up. I'll try them with the utws3's which prob aren't as good as the 5's, but at least it's something. I'm super super curious about the timeless given all the hype. I'll get the utws5 eventually, maybe with dusks if I just totally lose my mind later.

I was thinking the galaxy pros would satiate my hunger if I liked them, which I do, but instead it's made me curious to go farther down the rabbit hole. It's just so enjoyable to listen to more stuff, especially if it has a diff flavor and gives me a similiar feeling as my over the ear shures do.


----------



## guitarizt

So how do the fokus pros compare to the standalone iems like the blessing 2's? Same tier? I'm skeptical of the fokus pros because of the price point with bt, that they can be as good as a blessing 2 or fdx1 while still having bt for 350ish.


----------



## Juturna

Sometimes it blows being into TWS earbuds when living in Europe. Would love to snatch up a pair of Fokus Pro's but can only find them for order from what looks like a semi-sketchy Polish website...


----------



## BobJS

Phaethon said:


> Open box Fokus for $296
> https://audio46.com/products/noble-audio-fokus-pro-true-wireless-iems-open-box



That's the deal I picked up yesterday.  I can let you know how "open" the open box is when I get them tomorrow.


----------



## Phaethon

BobJS said:


> That's the deal I picked up yesterday.  I can let you know how "open" the open box is when I get them tomorrow.


Got my open box Fokus from audio46 the day before yesterday. No trace of the box having been opened. For anyone on the fence: I’ve tried all the TWS’ and I’ve got some awesome IEMs too - the Fokus are something I haven’t encountered in all that. If TWS audio has left you wanting more, these are more. Just know there are limits to its feature set.


----------



## cytoSiN

It makes me so sad to hear how great the Fokus sounds considering essentially no other features.  I know that's what they were going for, but it's like they WANTED to make this a hard decision for people.  So, buy the Fokus now, or wait "a few months" or whatever they said for something with more TWS features...?


----------



## rhsauer

erockg said:


> I had them about two weeks ago.  Got them during the holiday 30% off sale, update and woof... total mic failure.  Firmware V4.3.5.  You're so very lucky.  I did a before and after audio test and it was amazing that it happened to me again.  No lie, that was my third pair that the fw botched the mic on me.


I just took mine out and tested again to be sure, since subsequent acquisitions have moved the MW08's to the back of the rotation.  I'm on fw 4.4.5, and the mic is fine (pretty good, actually).


----------



## Tommy C

cytoSiN said:


> It makes me so sad to hear how great the Fokus sounds considering essentially no other features.  I know that's what they were going for, but it's like they WANTED to make this a hard decision for people.  So, buy the Fokus now, or wait "a few months" or whatever they said for something with more TWS features...?


Personally, I would wait a few months to see if they come up with V2 that has at least ambient mode. 
For $350 I can get the Shure SE535 or something from Campfire Audio to hook up to the TW2 and be done with it for a while. 
The question is also when and if they will release the V2…Who knows but personally I don’t like to sit and wait and I need ambient so for now, sadly it’s a pass.


----------



## cytoSiN

Tommy C said:


> Personally, I would wait a few months to see if they come up with V2 that has at least ambient mode.
> For $350 I can get the Shure SE535 or something from Campfire Audio to hook up to the TW2 and be done with it for a while.
> The question is also when and if they will release the V2…Who knows but personally I don’t like to sit and wait and I need ambient so for now, sadly it’s a pass.


Agreed, but I don't have anything with ambient now at all, which makes it even tougher.  I might just rearrange the furniture in my office so I can SEE people coming...old-fashioned ambient...


----------



## zeinharis

Sony WF-L900


----------



## scubaphish (Jan 6, 2022)

Tommy C said:


> Personally, I would wait a few months to see if they come up with V2 that has at least ambient mode.
> For $350 I can get the Shure SE535 or something from Campfire Audio to hook up to the TW2 and be done with it for a while.
> The question is also when and if they will release the V2…Who knows but personally I don’t like to sit and wait and I need ambient so for now, sadly it’s a pass.


I really want something from that Campfire sale page. Anyone interested in a lovingly used set of Devialet Gemini 




Edit: or just use my eq’d 535 and as @Tommy C suggests, be done with it for a little while…lol!


----------



## erockg

rhsauer said:


> I just took mine out and tested again to be sure, since subsequent acquisitions have moved the MW08's to the back of the rotation.  I'm on fw 4.4.5, and the mic is fine (pretty good, actually).


Maybe it was the metal plate in my head.  Kidding.


----------



## BooleanBones

zeinharis said:


> Sony WF-L900


Hard to tell from picture in the case, but kind of wierd/interesting looking.


----------



## erockg

cytoSiN said:


> It makes me so sad to hear how great the Fokus sounds considering essentially no other features.  I know that's what they were going for, but it's like they WANTED to make this a hard decision for people.  So, buy the Fokus now, or wait "a few months" or whatever they said for something with more TWS features...?





Tommy C said:


> Personally, I would wait a few months to see if they come up with V2 that has at least ambient mode.
> For $350 I can get the Shure SE535 or something from Campfire Audio to hook up to the TW2 and be done with it for a while.
> The question is also when and if they will release the V2…Who knows but personally I don’t like to sit and wait and I need ambient so for now, sadly it’s a pass.


That said, the Noble bud do hold some value on the eBay and others market.  I didn't take too bad of a hit when selling my Falcon Pro.  

Speaking to the TW2 adapter, I was messing around with mine last night and attaching the FH9s and this morning the Variations.  FH9 work flawlessly.  Variations need a bit more power to drive.  I forget who said it, but if you go into the app and change what buds you're using them with, it adds a bit more power.  I changed my to the SE215, which makes sense.  I need to compare and contrast the UTWS5 adapters with the Variations to the Vs with the TW2.  For the last few days I've been having some issues with the UTWS5.  One being what @xSDMx had with the Fiio adapter randomly connecting to my phone when they're in the case charging.  Not exactly fun when you're using a different set of bud because they're overriding the connection and pausing music.  My thoughts here are that if these Variations work well with the MMCX to 2 Pin adapter on the TW2, and the Fiio keeps having this issue, is it even worth keeping the Fiio adapters.


----------



## Tommy C

cytoSiN said:


> Agreed, but I don't have anything with ambient now at all, which makes it even tougher.  I might just rearrange the furniture in my office so I can SEE people coming...old-fashioned ambient...


The TW2 have ambient mode and it’s superb, so if paired with any IEMs you will have the ambient box checked ✅


----------



## scubaphish

Tommy C said:


> The TW2 have ambient mode and it’s superb, so if paired with any IEMs you will have the ambient box checked ✅


It’s a got pretty effective eq, too


----------



## guitarizt

Thanks, erock. In a bit I'll have to decide if I want the utws5 or tw2. The more power thing and cheaper price was enticing with the utws5, but the diff bud option with tw2 for more power sounds nice. If shure had a better buds combo set here with the tw2 that would help, or if was just a bit cheaper by itself, like 150 instead of 190.

I might just use the utws3's out and about or even just the galaxy pros. I'll have to see how much I like the timeless and aria when I get them.


----------



## xSDMx

guitarizt said:


> Thanks, erock. In a bit I'll have to decide if I want the utws5 or tw2. The more power thing and cheaper price was enticing with the utws5, but the diff bud option with tw2 for more power sounds nice. If shure had a better buds combo set here with the tw2 that would help, or if was just a bit cheaper by itself, like 150 instead of 190.
> 
> I might just use the utws3's out and about or even just the galaxy pros. I'll have to see how much I like the timeless and aria when I get them.


I would honestly recommend staying away from the UTWS5 right now given the quality issues. Ambient mode is effectively a no-show (two more weeks! big update in May! coming soon!) and the beta version is a half-implementation. Also, plenty of people are now running into the charging, case, microphone, etc. issues I first hit (check the UTWS5 thread for those reports).


----------



## erockg

guitarizt said:


> Thanks, erock. In a bit I'll have to decide if I want the utws5 or tw2. The more power thing and cheaper price was enticing with the utws5, but the diff bud option with tw2 for more power sounds nice. If shure had a better buds combo set here with the tw2 that would help, or if was just a bit cheaper by itself, like 150 instead of 190.
> 
> I might just use the utws3's out and about or even just the galaxy pros. I'll have to see how much I like the timeless and aria when I get them.


Yeah, my 5s are boxed up and may be going back.


----------



## erockg

xSDMx said:


> I would honestly recommend staying away from the UTWS5 right now given the quality issues. Ambient mode is effectively a no-show (two more weeks! big update in May! coming soon!) and the beta version is a half-implementation. Also, plenty of people are now running into the charging, case, microphone, etc. issues I first hit (check the UTWS5 thread for those reports).


Yeah, I've been following the threads silently   Have you heard if the 3s have the random connect issues?  @Ceeluh7 might know this.  Great price, but man, I can't deal with bugs when I'm working and rocking.  TW2s are having zero issues right now with the Variations.  Volume can't get as loud but for 99% of us out there it's probably way more than enough.


----------



## xSDMx

erockg said:


> Yeah, I've been following the threads silently   Have you heard if the 3s have the random connect issues?  @Ceeluh7 might know this.  Great price, but man, I can't deal with bugs when I'm working and rocking.  TW2s are having zero issues right now with the Variations.  Volume can't get as loud but for 99% of us out there it's probably way more than enough.


I owned the UTWS3 when they first launched (you might be able to find my old posts about them) and returned them even faster than I returned the UTWS5. The connectivity, pairing process, etc. was absolutely terrible. I constantly found one of the two earhooks would frequently lose connection to the other. FiiO definitely fixed those connectivity issues with the UTWS5 by using the newer QCC, but now there are other issues. Keep in mind the UTWS3 uses the older style of TWS BT pairing where both left and right are separate devices exposed to your source.


----------



## guitarizt

Ah darn, I got the utws3 for like 63 used off amazon. I just cancelled it cause it didn't ship. Sounds like it's better to get the tw2. Just hard to justify spending 230 on it with the aonic 215s. I'd rather spend a little more and get a better iem combo.


----------



## erockg

xSDMx said:


> I owned the UTWS3 when they first launched (you might be able to find my old posts about them) and returned them even faster than I returned the UTWS5. The connectivity, pairing process, etc. was absolutely terrible. I constantly found one of the two earhooks would frequently lose connection to the other. FiiO definitely fixed those connectivity issues with the UTWS5 by using the newer QCC, but now there are other issues. Keep in mind the UTWS3 uses the older style of TWS BT pairing where both left and right are separate devices exposed to your source.


Awful.  Guess the TW2s are the way to go for everything at this time.


----------



## guitarizt

Oh yeah, are any of those cheap $30ish wired bt things work getting, or do I need to come to terms with blowing 230 on the tw2 and aonic 215s? I could see myself only using good iems at home and my galaxy pros when out and maybe just get a cheap bt thing and some dusks?


----------



## erockg

guitarizt said:


> Oh yeah, are any of those cheap $30ish wired bt things work getting, or do I need to come to terms with blowing 230 on the tw2 and aonic 215s? I could see myself only using good iems at home and my galaxy pros when out and maybe just get a cheap bt thing and some dusks?


I'm using the TW2 adapter with the MMCX-2 Pin adapter to the Moondrop Variations.


----------



## erockg

Outside of the new TRN BT30 adapters, the only other adapter I know of is the Fostex TM2C but they're nowhere to be found from a legitimate source.  Had the first gen and they were great, but they didn't have a battery in the case and the case is huge.  New version has a battery case now.


----------



## guitarizt (Jan 6, 2022)

erockg said:


> Outside of the new TRN BT30 adapters, the only other adapter I know of is the Fostex TM2C but they're nowhere to be found from a legitimate source.  Had the first gen and they were great, but they didn't have a battery in the case and the case is huge.  New version has a battery case now.


Thanks, I'll wait and research these more. Only $90, I love the price.

So I've noticed something weird with my galaxy bud pros. The sound wasn't that good this morning, but I figured out why. If I turn anc on the sound is slightly better. More depth and bass. If I turn ambient mode on which turns anc off, the sound is the best. Just a touch more bass and depth. It's not as bad as going from the buds+ to the pros, but no anc and ambient off I think it'd be what crinacle would rate a B overall, and with ambient on it's a solid B+. The music is enjoyable to me again. Everything off it's not. Ambient on it's ok this is passable.

I'm using galaxy buds manager on linux as my iphone is too old to support the galaxy pro app. Ambient mode is great to me on the pros, but on the buds+ it's godawful. Everything sounds weird and there is lag. I got dizzy when jogging with them the first time and had to take them off. I was able to get used to it, but it's just not worth risking if you can get the pros for 130-.

Oh the only thing I can think of that's happening is it makes the buds draw more power from the amp which helps the sound? I think I'm really sensitive to differences in quality, like it's a huge jump from what crinacle rates a B to B+. B can be awful but I can love B+. I'm starting to get interested in the monarch mk2 for that s rating, FML!


----------



## erockg

guitarizt said:


> Thanks, I'll wait and research these more. Only $90, I love the price.
> 
> So I've noticed something weird with my galaxy bud pros. The sound wasn't that good this morning, but I figured out why. If I turn anc on the sound is slightly better. More depth and bass. If I turn ambient mode on which turns anc off, the sound is the best. Just a touch more bass and depth. It's not as bad as going from the buds+ to the pros, but no anc and ambient off I think it'd be what crinacle would rate a B overall, and with ambient on it's a solid B+. The music is enjoyable to me again. Everything off it's not. Ambient on it's ok this is passable.
> 
> ...


I'm an Apple guy so I have no experience with those buds, outside of the Galaxy Buds Plus a few years ago.  That said, I do know some buds take a sound quality hit when you switch modes.


----------



## Ceeluh7

erockg said:


> Yeah, I've been following the threads silently   Have you heard if the 3s have the random connect issues?  @Ceeluh7 might know this.  Great price, but man, I can't deal with bugs when I'm working and rocking.  TW2s are having zero issues right now with the Variations.  Volume can't get as loud but for 99% of us out there it's probably way more than enough.


Yes there has always been some issues with the Fiio adapters randomly connecting... I heard it was an issue with the connection points behind your ears, getting gunked up and so cleaning the connection points with alcohol every now and again helps. Idk man, I did have an issue a while back on my utws3 and this solved it but.... Many people have had this issue. Thankfully I have not had an issue on mine with any of this with my 5. I understand the thought of sending back, especially while you have a window to do so man.


----------



## guitarizt

erockg said:


> I'm an Apple guy so I have no experience with those buds, outside of the Galaxy Buds Plus a few years ago.  That said, I do know some buds take a sound quality hit when you switch modes.


It's weird cause the quality gets drastically better on ambient mode, I think it has to be the amp drawing more power. I'm really curious how these would sound with a samsung phone for better source along with a great amp. Think the bass would be amazing and tighter, and also I wish they'd eq the upper freq better. Like it's kind of mellow and muted but too trebly at the same time. I also get some weird distortion on some frequencies that is super super subtle, but I'll deal with it for the sound quality and price.

How'd you like the buds+? I didn't know they were that old.


----------



## erockg

guitarizt said:


> It's weird cause the quality gets drastically better on ambient mode, I think it has to be the amp drawing more power. I'm really curious how these would sound with a samsung phone for better source along with a great amp. Think the bass would be amazing and tighter, and also I wish they'd eq the upper freq better. Like it's kind of mellow and muted but too trebly at the same time. I also get some weird distortion on some frequencies that is super super subtle, but I'll deal with it for the sound quality and price.
> 
> How'd you like the buds+? I didn't know they were that old.


I'm not going to lie, I didn't like them that much on an iPhone.  They were small which was nice, but I kinda stay away from the Galaxy line now.


----------



## Ceeluh7

guitarizt said:


> Thanks, I'll wait and research these more. Only $90, I love the price.
> 
> So I've noticed something weird with my galaxy bud pros. The sound wasn't that good this morning, but I figured out why. If I turn anc on the sound is slightly better. More depth and bass. If I turn ambient mode on which turns anc off, the sound is the best. Just a touch more bass and depth. It's not as bad as going from the buds+ to the pros, but no anc and ambient off I think it'd be what crinacle would rate a B overall, and with ambient on it's a solid B+. The music is enjoyable to me again. Everything off it's not. Ambient on it's ok this is passable.
> 
> ...


I use the Buds pro daily at the office... Using them right now man and you are absolutely right... To me a slight boost w anc on. They are great buds with my galaxy note 10+. Crinacle is different man. I don't agree with him very often yet I respect what he has done.... Not throwing shade here but he doesn't always jive with what he thinks sounds good but portrays what sounds good to him as..... Bible. Lol. I still watch his videos, entertaining but he is like the rest of us guys.... He likes what he likes and rates what he likes and that's that. So I use that knowledge filter when I'm listening to him review something. I guess of all the YouTube reviewers the first thing I try to do is get a grasp for what they like... Warm, neutral, bass, highs, etc.  or music taste. I guess what I'm saying is.... The galaxy buds pro are nice... No doubt... But I would never ever put them as top tier sound quality, or the Buds Plus. I do still use them daily though and for the features, app, fit, and pretty good SQ.... They are keepers for me.


----------



## Cornilius

Just got my 1more comfobuds. They're pretty OK. 

For music, the old pinnacle p1 still blow these out of the water, and will remain my music buds. With really well matched music, they sound good. Getting more rumbling in deep voices than I'd like, and some sibilence/harshness... But for $70 I think they're doing fine. 

I'll be using these for more vocal based content so hopefully the sibilence/bass doesn't bother me. They're kicking butt for phone calls, which was also very important. 

I considered going all in on expensive buds, but if I did that... Id rather go wired and upgrade the P1 to something newer.


----------



## Tommy C

guitarizt said:


> Ah darn, I got the utws3 for like 63 used off amazon. I just cancelled it cause it didn't ship. Sounds like it's better to get the tw2. Just hard to justify spending 230 on it with the aonic 215s. I'd rather spend a little more and get a better iem combo.


I got the TW2 for a good deal for the SE215 Special Edition and thought the same but guess what, they sound really really nice with the SE215 (SE) and to me they are worth it. In the TWS realm the SE215 sound quality is a strong contender as they sound like a wired SE215.


----------



## BooleanBones

Tommy C said:


> I got the TW2 for a good deal for the SE215 Special Edition and thought the same but guess what, they sound really really nice with the SE215 (SE) and to me they are worth it. In the TWS realm the SE215 sound quality is a strong contender as they sound like a wired SE215.


all this iem talk is killing my curiosity. Got three coming now just to listen and see.


----------



## erockg

BooleanBones said:


> all this iem talk is killing my curiosity. Got three coming now just to listen and see.


Which ones?  I've been putting my Variations to the test all day on the TW2.


----------



## BooleanBones

erockg said:


> Which ones?  I've been putting my Variations to the test all day on the TW2.


I didn't want to go nuts, so just trying to keep something simple and discreet. In addition to the Aonic 5s, I ordered IE300's and the Drop JVC FDX1's. I really wanted to compare the differences with the different driver configurations vs sound. Quite interesting stuff although my pocket book might think differently.


----------



## erockg (Jan 6, 2022)

BooleanBones said:


> I didn't want to go nuts, so just trying to keep something simple and discreet. In addition to the Aonic 5s, I ordered IE300's and the Drop JVC FDX1's. I really wanted to compare the differences with the different driver configurations vs sound. Quite interesting stuff although my pocket book might think differently.


I'm not sure the Sennies will fit on the Shure TW2 because they use a proprietary connector I THINK.  I've always wanted to try the IE300.  I had those JVC's from Drop too and I couldn't get a good fit.  The Aonic buds will fit like a glove.  Sorry, not trying to crap in your oatmeal.


----------



## BooleanBones

erockg said:


> I'm not sure the Sennies will fit on the Shure TW2 because they use a proprietary connector I THINK.  I had those JVC's from Drop too and I couldn't get a good fit.  The Aonic buds will fit like a glove.  Sorry, not trying to crap in your oatmeal.


That is what oatmeal is for  I will let you know for sure on the Sennies tomorrow as I read the same thing. I really want to see the sound profile differences with driver differences, which is my main goal. Exciting.


----------



## erockg

BooleanBones said:


> That is what oatmeal is for  I will let you know for sure on the Sennies tomorrow as I read the same thing. I really want to see the sound profile differences with driver differences, which is my main goal. Exciting.


Yeah, I've had them on my wishlist for ages.  Looking forward to hearing what you think.  I seem to be gravitating toward IEMs with a DD then few BAs in there.  The DD only IEMs haven't done it for me... YET.  Although, my eyes are on the Kato and a few others.


----------



## BooleanBones

erockg said:


> Yeah, I've had them on my wishlist for ages.  Looking forward to hearing what you think.  I seem to be gravitating toward IEMs with a DD then few BAs in there.  The DD only IEMs haven't done it for me... YET.  Although, my eyes are on the Kato and a few others.


It would just be nice to have something semi-discreet with wire/wireless capability. Seems like a lot of IEMs got these odd transformer build appearances to them. Maybe need the space for sound chambers, but doesn't overly appeal to me (yet).


----------



## Tommy C (Jan 6, 2022)

BooleanBones said:


> all this iem talk is killing my curiosity. Got three coming now just to listen and see.


They say the curiosity killed the cat. 
Same here though. For years I chased good sound IEMs. Most I spent was around $450 on a set. Then all these indie players up their game and prices and $1000 for IEMs was kind of the new normal for a flagship.  I was out of the race for a while due to a new career path and found happiness with my trusty Jabra.
Admittedly I'm quite happy with my current rotation but using the UE900 here and there feels like TWS has still a long way to go but the TW2 adapters sort of help to bridge that gap.


----------



## BooleanBones

Tommy C said:


> They say the curiosity killed the cat.
> Same here though. For years I chased good sound IEMs. Most I spent was around $450 on set. Then all these indie players up their games and price and $1000 for IEMs was kind of the new normal for a flagship.  I was out of the race for a while due to a new career path and found happiness with my trusty Jabra.
> Admittedly I'm quite happy with my current rotation but using the UE900 here and feels like TWS has still a long way to go but the TW2 sort of help to bridge that gap.


Exactly. The Fokus is what killed me. Tough to put in some of the TWS I have now for listening to music, it's that different. I always have the wireless cans too, so not overly keen to drop thousands on a fancy iem setup. End up chasing the rabbits down their holes


----------



## erockg

BooleanBones said:


> It would just be nice to have something semi-discreet with wire/wireless capability. Seems like a lot of IEMs got these odd transformer build appearances to them. Maybe need the space for sound chambers, but doesn't overly appeal to me (yet).


I hear you.  The Variations, Blessing 2 and the like are molded like true IEMs.  Probably why I gravitate to them, that and the sound.  Man, just love it.  So, I've had my TW2s on my ears since say, 8am.  Not always with music.  Mix of music, ambient, Zooms.  Variations on them.  I just finally charged them when they hit 10% left.  Not bad.  I bet they would have lasted another 30-45.


----------



## BooleanBones

erockg said:


> I hear you.  The Variations, Blessing 2 and the like are molded like true IEMs.  Probably why I gravitate to them, that and the sound.  Man, just love it.  So, I've had my TW2s on my ears since say, 8am.  Not always with music.  Mix of music, ambient, Zooms.  Variations on them.  I just finally charged them when they hit 10% left.  Not bad.  I bet they would have lasted another 30-45.


Nice. Great to hear they made it through the conf calls, etc. Another key goal.


----------



## erockg

Tommy C said:


> They say the curiosity killed the cat.
> Same here though. For years I chased good sound IEMs. Most I spent was around $450 on a set. Then all these indie players up their game and prices and $1000 for IEMs was kind of the new normal for a flagship.  I was out of the race for a while due to a new career path and found happiness with my trusty Jabra.
> Admittedly I'm quite happy with my current rotation but using the UE900 here and there feels like TWS has still a long way to go but the TW2 adapters sort of help to bridge that gap.





BooleanBones said:


> Exactly. The Fokus is what killed me. Tough to put in some of the TWS I have now for listening to music, it's that different. I always have the wireless cans too, so not overly keen to drop thousands on a fancy iem setup. End up chasing the rabbits down their holes


SO true.  All of this.


----------



## bladefd (Jan 6, 2022)

Nothing big at CES yet, huh?

I searched for any interesting TWS news yesterday and today. Nothing big yet.

JBL announced the following:
-JBL Live Pro 2
-JBL Live Free 2
-JBL Reflect Aero
-JBL Quantum TWS

-Belkin Soundform Immerse Noise Canceling Earbuds

Nothing I'm much interested in so far tbh. JBL is on its way up but doesn't intrigue me much when it comes to pure SQ, Belkin is a brand new player entering TWS market. I want to hear from other established heavy-hitters like Sony, Samsung, potentially Sennheiser, Bose, Jabra, Panasonic/Technics, CA, etc. B&O, B&W, and Apple are big-time too but always sell overpriced things that average person like me can't afford.


----------



## cytoSiN

BooleanBones said:


> Exactly. The Fokus is what killed me. Tough to put in some of the TWS I have now for listening to music, it's that different. I always have the wireless cans too, so not overly keen to drop thousands on a fancy iem setup. End up chasing the rabbits down their holes


I dunno man, nothing I've heard in wireless (over the ear or not) compares even close to my Solaris.  I've heard high end wired over the hear that compares, but for me the isolation of an IEM beats the best full setup I've personally heard.  So I'm very interested to see what the TW2 would do with Solaris.  But it's another 190 bucks, when I might just want to spend for Fokus or wait for Fokus 2.  So we shall see.


----------



## scubaphish

BooleanBones said:


> It would just be nice to have something semi-discreet with wire/wireless capability. Seems like a lot of IEMs got these odd transformer build appearances to them. Maybe need the space for sound chambers, but doesn't overly appeal to me (yet).


I’m looking at some budget options like the campfire comet and Moondrop aria to get some itches scratched


----------



## Tommy C

bladefd said:


> Nothing big at CES yet, huh?
> 
> I searched for any interesting TWS news yesterday and today. Nothing big yet.
> 
> ...



Thanks for the summary. This is why I don't really get excited for CES.
Re Belkin, they have some cheap TWS. I have known the brand for quite some time now as they make decent products. Had a few of their chargers and office equipment many years ago. I didn't really consider their TWS more than an OEM Chinese products with their brand on it. I hope I'm wrong though.


----------



## jant71 (Jan 6, 2022)

bladefd said:


> Nothing big at CES yet, huh?
> 
> I searched for any interesting TWS news yesterday and today. Nothing big yet.
> 
> ...


For some reason it actually started on the 4th so we got all the info. You missed the Monster with the 2 DNA models and the Jabra Elite 4 Active. Probably best they released the 4 Active later on cause at $120 and with ANC and aptX it is a better deal than the 7 Active.

Annnd, there was a correction about the Monster DNA Fit coming out in days. Seems they got the wrong info and it will be a bit longer but not said when they will come out. So, the first aptX Loseless model is not days away.


----------



## Tommy C

jant71 said:


> For some reason it actually started on the 4th so we got all the info. You missed the Monster with the 2 DNA models and the Jabra Elite 4 Active. Probably best they released the 4 Active later on cause at $120 and with ANC and aptX it is a better deal than the 7 Active.
> 
> Annnd, there was a correction about the Monster DNA Fit coming out in days. Seems they got the wrong info and it will be a bit longer but not said when they will come out.


Multipoint up to 2 devices, ANC and their Jabra app which is always pretty solid, it's an interesting product. I'm curious how's the sound quality.


----------



## Tommy C

scubaphish said:


> I’m looking at some budget options like the campfire comet and Moondrop aria to get some itches scratched


My local audio shop recommended the CA Honeydew. Sadly they were out of stock when I checked a while back and no demo unit available at that time.
They said the buds are more comfortable too since it's 3D printed from resin and not metal if I remember correctly.


----------



## scubaphish

Tommy C said:


> My local audio shop recommended the CA Honeydew. Sadly they were out of stock when I checked a while back and no demo unit available at that time.
> They said the buds are more comfortable too since it's 3D printed from resin and not metal if I remember correctly.


And a 10 mm DD. I put myself on waitlist on warehouse site.


----------



## jant71 (Jan 6, 2022)

Tommy C said:


> Multipoint up to 2 devices, ANC and their Jabra app which is always pretty solid, it's an interesting product. I'm curious how's the sound quality.


Early CNET review liked them but still brings up the older models at the cheap prices they are going for. That has been constant for all the new models; saying the older are so cheap now and more premium feeling or whatever that you can go that route instead. The new Jabra generation hasn't gone over as well as they would have hoped. From when the battery life dropped quite a bit and no aptX on the higher models and MP was not gonna happen till a ways after they came out. Jabra while still good is no longer a "heavy hitter" to borrow from bladefd.


----------



## jant71 (Jan 6, 2022)

Hmmm. First real snow tomorrow. 3-5 inches and I wonder how the CKS50 ANC will do at eliminating shoveling noise.


----------



## Ceeluh7

scubaphish said:


> I’m looking at some budget options like the campfire comet and Moondrop aria to get some itches scratched


What sound sig are you after. The comet is only a 1 BA. The Aria is nice and balanced... What else are you looking for man


----------



## scubaphish (Jan 6, 2022)

Ceeluh7 said:


> What sound sig are you after. The comet is only a 1 BA. The Aria is nice and balanced... What else are you looking for man


Something about the Comet is tempting despite single BA. Maybe because it’s campfires’ version of it. Reviews call it balanced; because ported, strong bass. And $99 for open box.
Aria is just as tempting, just need to add a 2 pin converter.
I want balanced, natural sound. Some sparkle to highs without sibilance and slapping bass when called for.

Edit: I’ll add that the fact that single BA is why I’m hesitating


----------



## jant71 (Jan 6, 2022)

scubaphish said:


> And a 10 mm DD. I put myself on waitlist on warehouse site.





Ceeluh7 said:


> What sound sig are you after. The comet is only a 1 BA. The Aria is nice and balanced... What else are you looking for man


Yeah, what signature? I'm thinking you want bigger bass if you put your self on that wait list for the Honeydew which is a basshead set. Maybe check out that IMR Splash of Gold if you are not anti Bob. They seem to getting excellent impressions.


----------



## scubaphish

jant71 said:


> Yeah, what signature? I'm thinking you want bigger bass if you put your self on that wait list for the Honeydew which is a basshead set. Maybe check out that IMR Splash of Gold if you are not anti Bob. They seem to getting excellent impressions.


Ah, didn’t know they’re considered bass bombs, thanks.


----------



## Phaethon

scubaphish said:


> I’m looking at some budget options like the campfire comet and Moondrop aria to get some itches scratched


Want to share that it seems Moondrop does get better as they go up in price. Got the Starfield and Blessing 2s close together. Couldn’t care less if I put the Starfields on ever again , but the Blessing 2s are right in my wheelhouse. 

So my winners this week are the Blessing 2, Shozy Form 1.4, Tinhifi T2. 

My Fiio FH7 are going to soon be available as open box from Amazon as soon as I can pack them and drop them off.


----------



## Tommy C

scubaphish said:


> Ah, didn’t know they’re considered bass bombs, thanks.



Same here. Was told they have lush sound and good bass but the guy at the shop didn't mention bass heavy sound. Wish I could demo them. 
And I'm also curious about the CA Satsuma.


----------



## scubaphish

Phaethon said:


> Want to share that it seems Moondrop does get better as they go up in price. Got the Starfield and Blessing 2s close together. Couldn’t care less if I put the Starfields on ever again , but the Blessing 2s are right in my wheelhouse.
> 
> So my winners this week are the Blessing 2, Shozy Form 1.4, Tinhifi T2.
> 
> My Fiio FH7 are going to soon be available as open box from Amazon as soon as I can pack them and drop them off.


If I had the budget, the blessing would be in my list. 
The T2 caught my attention on Drop. Weird, just went up from discounted $35 to $50.


----------



## Ceeluh7

This damn group..... I am a part of many groups, on Facebook, Instagram, other blogs.... You will see my face in others.... Lol.... This damn group.... This one has completely changed the way I buy audio. I am sending back two iems (not the tri I3 Pro... Hell no) and 3 tws today to get more funds for new stuff. Do you know I have never really done that to this extent before meeting the characters in this damn group!! Lol.... I'm dying man, countless purchases over the past 8-10 yrs of so many audio devices and I live with what I get....... But..... My love for tws, the most portable audio devices had brought me here... On a whim one day and I heard people who seem to know what they were talking about.... Lol... It's true. I couldn't quit you guys... It was like 25 of me texting back to me and..... This damn group. This Head-Fi tws group of all places. I can't be on all the time as I have to work but bet your ass when I get home I look at the 125 missed texts that I didn't see from all you crazy dudes. I only have so much time most days, like alot of you but lately I feel like I'm missing something if I haven't checked what yall are saying.... Wth!!!  I just wanted to share that because it is ridiculous. Seriously, now I am jacked that I will have abt 450 more Amazon dollars soon to splurge on. If I would've done this 10 yrs ago.... My collection would be amazing. It isn't bad at all, I have way more than I'd ever be able to listen to, which isn't always a good thing... At all. Anyways, I thought I'd share that with yall, you prob don't give a damn at all but I think it's hilarious. One last thing, and I mean this, I have my eyes on so many groups and places with audio as the reason and focal point and I will truly say..... The guys in this group are the best I've ever seen when it comes to true wireless.... No joke. So that's something, maybe you guys know of a better place but I haven't seen anything like this group anywhere else. Maybe there is, I'd like to be a part of it for sure but.... Good job fellas. Seriously as far as wireless goes and esp tws.... I know I would not go anywhere before here after I look at reviews on a set. Figured I'd point that out.... Good job fellas who have been here alot longer than I have.


----------



## Tommy C

@scubaphish CA Orion always been a top-seller. Their OG was very nicely tuned and they now have the Orion CK on ALO Deals... worth a look.


----------



## Ceeluh7

scubaphish said:


> Something about the Comet is tempting despite single BA. Maybe because it’s campfires’ version of it. Reviews call it balanced; because ported, strong bass. And $99 for open box.
> Aria is just as tempting, just need to add a 2 pin converter.
> I want balanced, natural sound. Some sparkle to highs without sibilance and slapping bass when called for.
> 
> Edit: I’ll add that the fact that single BA is why I’m hesitating


Ahh gotcha, the Comet isn't bad at all. For a single BA it stretches what you'd think it could do. I don't think it has the musicality of the Aria... Just my opinion. The Aria however isn't a bass canon, it can be good, just not a head banger but like you said it can be when called for. One you may want to look at is the TinHifi T3+. I have it and I like it a bit better than Aria. Or even the KZ ZAS.... I freaking love the ZAS. Good clean and powerful bass without leaving the other areas behind too bad. Anyways, there are too many options and I was just curious man.


----------



## scubaphish

Tommy C said:


> @scubaphish CA Orion always been a top-seller. Their OG was very nicely tuned and they now have the Orion CK on ALO Deals... worth a look.


“Your favorite tracks as they were recorded.”  That’s a solid quote!  Also single BA. Very intriguing. 
Thanks a lot!


----------



## scubaphish

Ceeluh7 said:


> Ahh gotcha, the Comet isn't bad at all. For a single BA it stretches what you'd think it could do. I don't think it has the musicality of the Aria... Just my opinion. The Aria however isn't a bass canon, it can be good, just not a head banger but like you said it can be when called for. One you may want to look at is the TinHifi T3+. I have it and I like it a bit better than Aria. Or even the KZ ZAS.... I freaking love the ZAS. Good clean and powerful bass without leaving the other areas behind too bad. Anyways, there are too many options and I was just curious man.


You said it, soooo many options once you can turn an IEM into wireless! And I know I’m all over the place. And once you look at the budget version, it’s like “oh, what’s $60 more?” Until it’s $200 more


----------



## Ceeluh7

scubaphish said:


> You said it, soooo many options once you can turn an IEM into wireless! And I know I’m all over the place. And once you look at the budget version, it’s like “oh, what’s $60 more?” Until it’s $200 more


Yep..... Exactly...... Ya know, to be honest jumping up in price doesn't always render a better result either. Truthfully the Iems I have kept are actually considered budget because the higher tier iems just weren't amazingly better. The budget chi-fi market is so full it's almost endless with companies who imo truly can beat giants.... Up to a point. Mostly cable and tip changes but you are right, the next thing down the line is a real problem I've been bit with for so many years. I hope you find something you love man.


----------



## erockg

scubaphish said:


> If I had the budget, the blessing would be in my list.
> The T2 caught my attention on Drop. Weird, just went up from discounted $35 to $50.


You know me, I'd go for the Moondrop no matter what   Once you get the Aria or the like, you're going to want to the Kato, Blessing or the like.  I've had incredible luck with the Blessing 2 and now the Variations.


----------



## erockg

Ceeluh7 said:


> This damn group..... I am a part of many groups, on Facebook, Instagram, other blogs.... You will see my face in others.... Lol.... This damn group.... This one has completely changed the way I buy audio. I am sending back two iems (not the tri I3 Pro... Hell no) and 3 tws today to get more funds for new stuff. Do you know I have never really done that to this extent before meeting the characters in this damn group!! Lol.... I'm dying man, countless purchases over the past 8-10 yrs of so many audio devices and I live with what I get....... But..... My love for tws, the most portable audio devices had brought me here... On a whim one day and I heard people who seem to know what they were talking about.... Lol... It's true. I couldn't quit you guys... It was like 25 of me texting back to me and..... This damn group. This Head-Fi tws group of all places. I can't be on all the time as I have to work but bet your ass when I get home I look at the 125 missed texts that I didn't see from all you crazy dudes. I only have so much time most days, like alot of you but lately I feel like I'm missing something if I haven't checked what yall are saying.... Wth!!!  I just wanted to share that because it is ridiculous. Seriously, now I am jacked that I will have abt 450 more Amazon dollars soon to splurge on. If I would've done this 10 yrs ago.... My collection would be amazing. It isn't bad at all, I have way more than I'd ever be able to listen to, which isn't always a good thing... At all. Anyways, I thought I'd share that with yall, you prob don't give a damn at all but I think it's hilarious. One last thing, and I mean this, I have my eyes on so many groups and places with audio as the reason and focal point and I will truly say..... The guys in this group are the best I've ever seen when it comes to true wireless.... No joke. So that's something, maybe you guys know of a better place but I haven't seen anything like this group anywhere else. Maybe there is, I'd like to be a part of it for sure but.... Good job fellas. Seriously as far as wireless goes and esp tws.... I know I would not go anywhere before here after I look at reviews on a set. Figured I'd point that out.... Good job fellas who have been here alot longer than I have.


You need to get off all those groups!  That's a lot of work!  The groups not the returns.   Returns are like crack.


----------



## Ceeluh7

erockg said:


> You need to get off all those groups!  That's a lot of work!  The groups not the returns.   Returns are like crack.


I know you know what I'm talking about... Lol. If anyone, I know you do. You are prob correct as well. It seems like work some days but I only give so much in a day to it.... Kids, job, life, I just thought I'd pay some respects to this odd little place on Head-Fi. Lol.


----------



## erockg

Ceeluh7 said:


> I know you know what I'm talking about... Lol. If anyone, I know you do. You are prob correct as well. It seems like work some days but I only give so much in a day to it.... Kids, job, life, I just thought I'd pay some respects to this odd little place on Head-Fi. Lol.


Oh I know.  We've moved on to Dinotrux after our outdoor excursion over here.   An excursion demanded by mom.  Remember how hard it is to get a threenager out of the house when he's watching a show -- ?  

You gotta tell us what's leaving the building.  It's only fair.  I got those UTWS5 headed out.  Oddly enough, nothing else.  Leaning toward keeping the FH9.  They fit the TW2s really really well.  Final ZE3000 sound great but they hurt my ears.  Sharp edges in the design.  Adjustments happening, so we'll see...


----------



## erockg

Shure TW2s with the Variations, hearing things in this album I don't think I've ever heard:


----------



## scubaphish

erockg said:


> You know me, I'd go for the Moondrop no matter what   Once you get the Aria or the like, you're going to want to the Kato, Blessing or the like.  I've had incredible luck with the Blessing 2 and now the Variations.


Would you go for Moondrop over Fiio, too?

The FH3 and the KXXX are close in price


----------



## LordToneeus

guitarizt said:


> Oh yeah, are any of those cheap $30ish wired bt things work getting, or do I need to come to terms with blowing 230 on the tw2 and aonic 215s? I could see myself only using good iems at home and my galaxy pros when out and maybe just get a cheap bt thing and some dusks?


I’ve used a two pin TRN BT20S with my Arias, and an MMCX version with my Westone UM 30 Pro for a couple years now and have been well pleased with them, so there’s a $40 experiment for you if you’re so inclined.


----------



## dmphile

Hi folks,

Longtime lurker here trying to figure out if I should return my B&O EQs and just keep the AZ60s but man they sound so good. Az60 are really good but still sounds congested and not as good with soundstage and imaging as the EQs. I'm torn! Plus they don't have simple skip and previous track controls.


----------



## erockg

scubaphish said:


> Would you go for Moondrop over Fiio, too?


I mean, it depends on what model.  Others here may have tried more than me and may be much more audiophile.  I've only tried two Fiio IEMs -- The FA9 and the FH9.  Owned the Blessing 2 and now the Variations.  I have been a fan of the Blessing 2 for a while now.  I had them once and almost purchased them again, but wanted more sub-bass which the Variations have.  Couldn't be happier with the Variations.  Each listen makes me like them more.  The FH9 I'd say is more balanced focused whereas the Variations has more sub-bass.  The FH9 are cool, but certain albums they disappoint me.   

Personally, I would get the Kato over the FH3, but that's just me.  I haven't heard them yet, but I've read great things about them on all fronts.  They're on my wish list but I'm hoping they re-release the matte version.  Also, if you did get a Moondrop you'd have to get that MMCX adapter which could be an extra cost deal breaker if you're using the TW2.  Most of the Fiio buds have MMCX.


----------



## BooleanBones

dmphile said:


> Hi folks,
> 
> Longtime lurker here trying to figure out if I should return my B&O EQs and just keep the AZ60s but man they sound so good. Az60 are really good but still sounds congested and not as good with soundstage and imaging as the EQs. I'm torn! Plus they don't have simple skip and previous track controls.


Tough call there. The EQs do sound really good, but lack in just a couple spots. I guess you just have to weigh out what's most important in your scenario. If you are anything like me, you will be kicking yourself for sending whichever one back.


----------



## Ceeluh7

erockg said:


> Oh I know.  We've moved on to Dinotrux after our outdoor excursion over here.   An excursion demanded by mom.  Remember how hard it is to get a threenager out of the house when he's watching a show -- ?
> 
> You gotta tell us what's leaving the building.  It's only fair.  I got those UTWS5 headed out.  Oddly enough, nothing else.  Leaning toward keeping the FH9.  They fit the TW2s really really well.  Final ZE3000 sound great but they hurt my ears.  Sharp edges in the design.  Adjustments happening, so we'll see...


Only fair for sure..... I am getting rid of the Nuratrue, Sabbat E16, Tribit Flybuds C1, TinHifi T3+, Bqeyz Spring 2....all going bye bye. I am still considering a few. The JVC Woodie Tws Look good but I am not sold on anything at the moment at Amazon.


----------



## BooleanBones

Ceeluh7 said:


> This damn group..... I am a part of many groups, on Facebook, Instagram, other blogs.... You will see my face in others.... Lol.... This damn group.... This one has completely changed the way I buy audio. I am sending back two iems (not the tri I3 Pro... Hell no) and 3 tws today to get more funds for new stuff. Do you know I have never really done that to this extent before meeting the characters in this damn group!! Lol.... I'm dying man, countless purchases over the past 8-10 yrs of so many audio devices and I live with what I get....... But..... My love for tws, the most portable audio devices had brought me here... On a whim one day and I heard people who seem to know what they were talking about.... Lol... It's true. I couldn't quit you guys... It was like 25 of me texting back to me and..... This damn group. This Head-Fi tws group of all places. I can't be on all the time as I have to work but bet your ass when I get home I look at the 125 missed texts that I didn't see from all you crazy dudes. I only have so much time most days, like alot of you but lately I feel like I'm missing something if I haven't checked what yall are saying.... Wth!!!  I just wanted to share that because it is ridiculous. Seriously, now I am jacked that I will have abt 450 more Amazon dollars soon to splurge on. If I would've done this 10 yrs ago.... My collection would be amazing. It isn't bad at all, I have way more than I'd ever be able to listen to, which isn't always a good thing... At all. Anyways, I thought I'd share that with yall, you prob don't give a damn at all but I think it's hilarious. One last thing, and I mean this, I have my eyes on so many groups and places with audio as the reason and focal point and I will truly say..... The guys in this group are the best I've ever seen when it comes to true wireless.... No joke. So that's something, maybe you guys know of a better place but I haven't seen anything like this group anywhere else. Maybe there is, I'd like to be a part of it for sure but.... Good job fellas. Seriously as far as wireless goes and esp tws.... I know I would not go anywhere before here after I look at reviews on a set. Figured I'd point that out.... Good job fellas who have been here alot longer than I have.


That's a day maker post right there. I totally agree with this. Nice to read and gain input from the folks without feeling like the village idiot. Good stuff.


----------



## dmphile

BooleanBones said:


> Tough call there. The EQs do sound really good, but lack in just a couple spots. I guess you just have to weigh out what's most important in your scenario. If you are anything like me, you will be kicking yourself for sending whichever one back.


So true! Btw love the fact that everybody is so helpfull and passionate about their sound. I think I found my peeps!  I've been anxiously hoping that B&O listens to their users and add the functionality via firmware update but I was also contemplating fokus pro as well given all the accolades it's gotten. Shipping to Canada kinda sucks tho especially after the exchange as well. Boo, first world problems. Lol.


----------



## erockg

dmphile said:


> Hi folks,
> 
> Longtime lurker here trying to figure out if I should return my B&O EQs and just keep the AZ60s but man they sound so good. Az60 are really good but still sounds congested and not as good with soundstage and imaging as the EQs. I'm torn! Plus they don't have simple skip and previous track controls.


Honestly, I'm a WAY bigger fan of the EQs.  Loved them.  Just didn't like that the volume was low (for me).  Very much prefer the sound on the B&O.  Sad they're so overpriced


----------



## erockg

dmphile said:


> Hi folks,
> 
> Longtime lurker here trying to figure out if I should return my B&O EQs and just keep the AZ60s but man they sound so good. Az60 are really good but still sounds congested and not as good with soundstage and imaging as the EQs. I'm torn! Plus they don't have simple skip and previous track controls.





BooleanBones said:


> Tough call there. The EQs do sound really good, but lack in just a couple spots. I guess you just have to weigh out what's most important in your scenario. If you are anything like me, you will be kicking yourself for sending whichever one back.


What @BooleanBones said too.  He and I obsessed about them for days.


----------



## dmphile (Jan 6, 2022)

erockg said:


> Honestly, I'm a WAY bigger fan of the EQs.  Loved them.  Just didn't like that the volume was low (for me).  Very much prefer the sound on the B&O.  Sad they're so overpriced


Agree, I am leaning towards keeping both so I don't kick myself after returning one of them haha. Multipoint is so clutch tho and when EQ'd properly, the AZ60s sound almost just as good across the range as the EQs aside from the staging and imaging.


----------



## BooleanBones

dmphile said:


> Agree, I am leaning towards keeping both so I don't kick myself after returning one of them haha. Multipoint is so clutch tho and when EQ'd properly, the AZ60s sound almost just as good across the range as the EQs aside from the staging and imaging.


The AZs have a bit more oomph too in case you need it. And half the price


----------



## erockg

dmphile said:


> Agree, I am leaning towards keeping both so I don't kick myself after returning one of them haha. Mulitpoint is so clutch tho and when EQ'd properly, the AZ60s sound almost just as good across the range as the EQs aside from the staging and imaging.


I'm one of the few on here that didn't like the sound on the AZ60s.  I felt they had too much sibilance.  I did very much prefer them over the AZ70s.  A lot of us on here change TWS buds like we change underwear.  Okay, maybe not everyone on here changes their underwear every day, just sayin'   I'm all WFH here so the multipoint thing is great but never a deal breaker for me.


----------



## dmphile

erockg said:


> I'm one of the few on here that didn't like the sound on the AZ60s.  I felt they had too much sibilance.  I did very much prefer them over the AZ70s.  A lot of us on here change TWS buds like we change underwear.  Okay, maybe not everyone on here changes their underwear every day, just sayin'   I'm all WFH here so the multipoint thing is great but never a deal breaker for me.


I hear you. I'm also WFH 90% of the time and I have the FiiO M7 DAP dedicated for music which makes the switch between phone or laptop/PC so convenient. Decisions decisions.


----------



## Ceeluh7

erockg said:


> I'm one of the few on here that didn't like the sound on the AZ60s.  I felt they had too much sibilance.  I did very much prefer them over the AZ70s.  A lot of us on here change TWS buds like we change underwear.  Okay, maybe not everyone on here changes their underwear every day, just sayin'   I'm all WFH here so the multipoint thing is great but never a deal breaker for me.


I was the same. I found them sibilant and there was lack in the bass dept. A fuzziness to bass hits that I thought they'd clean up. Granted they are a great set but I am so picky with sound and it has to be right and for $240.00 I thought they should be perfect. I love alot of features about them though and they look cool as anything, premium looking.


----------



## chinmie

erockg said:


> You know me, I'd go for the Moondrop no matter what   Once you get the Aria or the like, you're going to want to the Kato, Blessing or the like.  I've had incredible luck with the Blessing 2 and now the Variations.



the OG tin T2 is unique though, and i really like the tuning of the T2 plus. but in all honesty, people really can't go wrong with a moondrop with their usually good tunings . i still keep my OG Kanas (which sounds really similar/almost the same to the KXXS) and their old earbud


----------



## HaliHarry

I love bass and treb on Az60, i'm just not so happy with midrange. Can someone tell me that B&O EQ or Fokus Pro is better choice? And dose anyone have some information about Sennheiser TW3 ??


----------



## dmphile

HaliHarry said:


> I love bass and treb on Az60, i'm just not so happy with midrange. Can someone tell me that B&O EQ or Fokus Pro is better choice? And dose anyone have some information about Sennheiser TW3 ??


That's odd, with a slight tweak to the EQ in the app, the AZ60s midrange was pretty great to my ears. Here's a ss of my EQ. See if that helps. To answer your second question, I much prefer the overall SQ of the B&O EQs. They tend to illicit more emotion to me when listening to several of my playlists. Sub-bass is just sublime and the layering and soundstage puts you right in the middle of all the nuances.


----------



## Canabuc

mikp said:


> ive been out of the loop since my mtw2 arrived. Are there any new one sout with ldac\aptx adaptive etc with full control options on them? Been wanting to try the sonys, but lack of control is a dealbreaker


Technics eah-az60


----------



## Canabuc

BooleanBones said:


> I have AZ60s, XM4s, and Fokus. The Fokus are in a different class all together. The AZs and XM4s both have their bright points. I think the AZs actually have a bit better SQ and sparkle to them over the XM4s in the SQ department. I use the XM4s more than the AZs due to comfort and features I tend to use more (pause to ambient), but a toss up to me really.


Az60 have an ambient option that pauses the music as well


----------



## BooleanBones

Canabuc said:


> Az60 have an ambient option that pauses the music as well


yeah, should have been clearer, but I really like the Sony touch/hold and release to let it rip again. It also fades the music back in when doing it in case it's loud. I do like both a lot though.


----------



## dmphile

BooleanBones said:


> yeah, should have been clearer, but I really like the Sony touch/hold and release to let it rip again. It also fades the music back in when doing it in case it's loud. I do like both a lot though.


I wanted to like the XM4s but the fit was not good for my ears. Hurt as soon as I tried them on and lack of multipoint didn't make sense to me since the overhead has them. Not sure why OEMs omit features that they know would win over clients easily.


----------



## BooleanBones

dmphile said:


> I wanted to like the XM4s but the fit was not good for my ears. Hurt as soon as I tried them on and lack of multipoint didn't make sense to me since the overhead has them. Not sure why OEMs omit features that they know would win over clients easily.


Yep. Some other folks had mentioned the same on the fit. Guess I got lucky with my dumbo ears  I pop mine in and out almost as easy as my APPs.


----------



## Phaethon

erockg said:


> Honestly, I'm a WAY bigger fan of the EQs.  Loved them.  Just didn't like that the volume was low (for me).  Very much prefer the sound on the B&O.  Sad they're so overpriced


Just checked my Amazon account and I’ve bought the EQs three times and returned them three times. I love their sound, something annoys me, I send them back, I miss their sound, I order them again. Eventually Amazon will ban me from ordering them. I’m afraid there are no 12 Steps out of this addiction!


----------



## BooleanBones

Phaethon said:


> Just checked my Amazon account and I’ve bought the EQs three times and returned them three times. I love their sound, something annoys me, I send them back, I miss their sound, I order them again. Eventually Amazon will ban me from ordering them. I’m afraid there are no 12 Steps out of this addiction!


This sounds like dejavu to me. I would probably buy and keep them if they just free the volume up.


----------



## voicemaster

For anyone who are looking for TRN BT20s pro and wondering if the new BT30 is an upgrade over the pro, from my experience, it is a yes and no. 
Yes in term of newer chip, but the pro connect pretty fast already imho and there is not much different in signal strength tbh. 
No in the sound quality department. The BT30 doesn't sound full, it makes all my IEMs (Variations, FHE, Timeless) sound anemic. There is little to no body to the bass. The BT20s pro sounds fuller in comparison and louder too. If you like to kill your bass, then the BT30 maybe the better choice.
For me, better safe the money and get the BT20s pro ($38 vs $76 at AE) or if you want a better bluetooth earhook overall, the Fiio UTWS5 is better in almost every aspects.


----------



## erockg

Phaethon said:


> Just checked my Amazon account and I’ve bought the EQs three times and returned them three times. I love their sound, something annoys me, I send them back, I miss their sound, I order them again. Eventually Amazon will ban me from ordering them. I’m afraid there are no 12 Steps out of this addiction!


Oh man, been there too.  If they drop in price I’d prob try again.  Pathetic fool I am.


----------



## erockg

BooleanBones said:


> This sounds like dejavu to me. I would probably buy and keep them if they just free the volume up.


1000%


----------



## erockg (Jan 7, 2022)

voicemaster said:


> For anyone who are looking for TRN BT20s pro and wondering if the new BT30 is an upgrade over the pro, from my experience, it is a yes and no.
> Yes in term of newer chip, but the pro connect pretty fast already imho and there is not much different in signal strength tbh.
> No in the sound quality department. The BT30 doesn't sound full, it makes all my IEMs (Variations, FHE, Timeless) sound anemic. There is little to no body to the bass. The BT20s pro sounds fuller in comparison and louder too. If you like to kill your bass, then the BT30 maybe the better choice.
> For me, better safe the money and get the BT20s pro ($38 vs $76 at AE) or if you want a better bluetooth earhook overall, the Fiio UTWS5 is better in almost every aspects.


Awful to hear because I just took a shot and ordered the BT30!

How do I get the UTWS5 to stop randomly trying to connect to my phone when they’re in the case and fully charged?   Literally have them boxed up to return because of this issue.  Seems many others have the same issue.  These are just a few: https://www.reddit.com/r/FiiO/comments/rsnwle/utws_5_keeps_connecting_to_my_phone/


----------



## voicemaster

erockg said:


> Awful to hear because I just took a shot and ordered the BT30!
> 
> How do I get the UTWS5 to stop randomly trying to connect to my phone when they’re in the case and fully charged?   Literally have them boxed up to return because of this issue.  Seems many others have the same issue.  These are just a few: https://www.reddit.com/r/FiiO/comments/rsnwle/utws_5_keeps_connecting_to_my_phone/


Did you properly close the case? I notice that the UTWS5 will connect with just opening up the case and will stay connected when the lid open. Both of my UTWS5 don't randomly connect to my PC either when they are inside the case with the lid closed.


----------



## erockg

voicemaster said:


> Did you properly close the case? I notice that the UTWS5 will connect with just opening up the case and will stay connected when the lid open. Both of my UTWS5 don't randomly connect to my PC either when they are inside the case with the lid closed.


Absolutely.  Also, they seem to connect and override when another set of buds are in use.  I’ll try another reset tomorrow.  Very frustrating.


----------



## voicemaster

erockg said:


> Absolutely.  Also, they seem to connect and override when another set of buds are in use.  I’ll try another reset tomorrow.  Very frustrating.


I rotate my KZ AZ09 pro, 2 UTWS5 and TRN BT20s pro regularly and no problem so far. As long as I put or turn off the previous connected bluetooth earhook then proceeed to turning on whichever I want to connect next, it usually happened without a hitch. I never had any of my UTWS5 override another set of bluetooth.


----------



## James-uk

Im giving wireless audio another go and my first dabble back in has been a disaster. 
Sorry, that’s not quite true, I currently use my airpod max daily and they are superb and so are my airpod pro, but I wanted to turn my IE900s wireless so I ordered the UTWS5. 
I received the UTWS5 yesterday and after hours of trying I cannot get them to work with my phone so I’ve given up and ordered the Shure TW2. 
Are these the only real ear hook type options on the market? Also, my last attempt at going wireless with my iems was with the old Shure Bluetooth neck wire thing, and that had an audible hiss even at low volumes so I really hope the TW2 is better. 
I’m worried I’ve entered a whole world of pain but I’m going to try and enjoy trying some new options again.


----------



## guitarizt

Tommy C said:


> I got the TW2 for a good deal for the SE215 Special Edition and thought the same but guess what, they sound really really nice with the SE215 (SE) and to me they are worth it. In the TWS realm the SE215 sound quality is a strong contender as they sound like a wired SE215.


I can't tell if the tw2 combo on US amazon is the se215? I can only find that one combo here in the US.


BooleanBones said:


> I didn't want to go nuts, so just trying to keep something simple and discreet. In addition to the Aonic 5s, I ordered IE300's and the Drop JVC FDX1's. I really wanted to compare the differences with the different driver configurations vs sound. Quite interesting stuff although my pocket book might think differently.


Interesting, def interested in the ie300s and fdx1's as they might have a more favorable sound sig to me based on the reviews. There are a lot of other options hyped up now that seemed to have killed the fdx1 talk. It's too bad if what erock said is true and the ie300's have a proprietary connector.


----------



## sgtbilko

James-uk said:


> Im giving wireless audio another go and my first dabble back in has been a disaster.
> Sorry, that’s not quite true, I currently use my airpod max daily and they are superb and so are my airpod pro, but I wanted to turn my IE900s wireless so I ordered the UTWS5.
> I received the UTWS5 yesterday and after hours of trying I cannot get them to work with my phone so I’ve given up and ordered the Shure TW2.
> Are these the only real ear hook type options on the market? Also, my last attempt at going wireless with my iems was with the old Shure Bluetooth neck wire thing, and that had an audible hiss even at low volumes so I really hope the TW2 is better.
> I’m worried I’ve entered a whole world of pain but I’m going to try and enjoy trying some new options again.


Have you thought about getting the UTWS3? I have been using it with a number of iems with my iPhone and experienced no issues at all.


----------



## C_Lindbergh

It's great that we're finally seeing the first APTX Lossless TWS being announced, but other than that CES has been a disappointment.  

I guess I'll have to stick with my CA MT for at least a few more months


----------



## Canabuc (Jan 7, 2022)

BooleanBones said:


> yeah, should have been clearer, but I really like the Sony touch/hold and release to let it rip again. It also fades the music back in when doing it in case it's loud. I do like both a lot though.



Funny when I had the xm3 I thought I would like that but truthfully it was annoying to keep my fingers holding there for any length of time. Find the other solution more elegant where music can pause with ambient activated. Then it is a simple 1 touch to keep ambient on and restart the music or 1 hold to deactivate ambient and restart music.


----------



## raymanh

C_Lindbergh said:


> It's great that we're finally seeing the first APTX Lossless TWS being announced, but other than that CES has been a disappointment.
> 
> I guess I'll have to stick with my CA MT for at least a few more months



Which one was that? I must've missed it.


----------



## Ceeluh7

So many people having utws5 issues.... I'm thankful I haven't had any yet because I truly believe it's the best out there sonically. Maybe Fiio is just a generation or two away from the perfect product in this regard. I haven't had the connection issue but one time on my utws3 set. I cleared all pairing, cleaned all connection points with alcohol, turned off the adapters, reset them and then it seemed to bring them back to good. I have no idea if this would help anyone else or if it's just not worth the hassle to any of you. That just really sucks. Honestly whatever I pair with the utws5 sounds really fantastic, they just nailed the tuning, and the power is damn near perfect. I'm sorry yall are seeing issues fellas, hopefully tw2 will do the trick, I still haven't tried the Shure set yet


----------



## Ceeluh7

voicemaster said:


> I rotate my KZ AZ09 pro, 2 UTWS5 and TRN BT20s pro regularly and no problem so far. As long as I put or turn off the previous connected bluetooth earhook then proceeed to turning on whichever I want to connect next, it usually happened without a hitch. I never had any of my UTWS5 override another set of bluetooth.


You and I both... It is a damn shame so many are having issues man. I really enjoy the utws5 with any iem I use with it. What a disappointment to so many people. I have two utws3's and a utws5 2 pin and have only had one hiccup with one of my 3 versions but other than that they have been.... Perfect.


----------



## raymanh

Whats a good ANC TWS bud that's isn't susceptible to wind noise?

I've had the Jabra 75t's for a while now but generally their ANC isn't great when it comes to wind noise.


----------



## Tommy C

guitarizt said:


> I can't tell if the tw2 combo on US amazon is the se215? I can only find that one combo here in the US.


I purchased it from Amazon Canada. Great price too.
https://www.amazon.ca/dp/B099KT6QYJ/ref=twister_B09KW7BHSB?_encoding=UTF8&th=1


----------



## Tommy C

raymanh said:


> Whats a good ANC TWS bud that's isn't susceptible to wind noise?
> 
> I've had the Jabra 75t's for a while now but generally their ANC isn't great when it comes to wind noise.



I use the 1More Comfobuds Pro as their ANC is pretty solid and you have WR option which mutes the wind noise completely.
I also like them sonically speaking, For the $65 or so that I paid for them I'm very happy.
Edit: keep in mind that only the Aurora blue version has EQ presets if you're considering them.


----------



## James-uk

Utws5 update. I had another go at the pairing process and it finally went into pairing mode, connected immediately and they work great now. 
I’m waiting on the mmcx adaptors so I can use the Ie900 with them, for now I’m using my Shure 535 and it sounds exactly how It did wired. 
Can’t wait to have a wireless IE900, that is my absolute end game iem setup.


----------



## Tommy C

@scubaphish I hate doing this to you but just learned from my local audio store that CA has a new hybrid model on the budget-ish end.
The store has it in stock but CA has it as backordered. In any event, it's worth a look too since it's a BA + DD setup and I trust CA that they know their stuff.
https://campfireaudio.com/shop/onyx/


----------



## scubaphish (Jan 7, 2022)

Tommy C said:


> @scubaphish I hate doing this to you but just learned from my local audio store that CA has a new hybrid model on the budget-ish end.
> The store has it in stock but CA has it as backordered. In any event, it's worth a look too since it's a BA + DD setup and I trust CA that they know their stuff.
> https://campfireaudio.com/shop/onyx/


Thanks, I think.
I’ve been staring at the Polaris hybrid…crazy

Edit: that onyx looks sweet!!

Edit 2: head spinning with options…lol


----------



## Juturna

What's the absolute cheapest I could get away with if I want a bluetooth adapter and an IEM that sounds better than most/any true wireless earbuds, just to try out if it's worth it to me? I think I kinda prefer the convenience of actual TWS's but I'm very curious to try out something, haven't really used wired earbuds for many many years now so I feel like I've lost all reference points on how good they can sound in comparison.


----------



## BooleanBones

Juturna said:


> What's the absolute cheapest I could get away with if I want a bluetooth adapter and an IEM that sounds better than most/any true wireless earbuds, just to try out if it's worth it to me? I think I kinda prefer the convenience of actual TWS's but I'm very curious to try out something, haven't really used wired earbuds for many many years now so I feel like I've lost all reference points on how good they can sound in comparison.


I have the same curiosity and have ordered some to try out. I'm sure others will chime in, but I think the Sure215 TW2 combo is pretty good in the price category. Here in the US it basically boils down to getting the TW2 adapter and a set of single driver iems (215), with the iems landing around 40$ in that package. @Tommy C  is using them now and might provide is thoughts on SQ etc.


----------



## jant71 (Jan 7, 2022)

Juturna said:


> What's the absolute cheapest I could get away with if I want a bluetooth adapter and an IEM that sounds better than most/any true wireless earbuds, just to try out if it's worth it to me? I think I kinda prefer the convenience of actual TWS's but I'm very curious to try out something, haven't really used wired earbuds for many many years now so I feel like I've lost all reference points on how good they can sound in comparison.



You could get the KZ AZ09 Pro and a pair of the CCA CRA. Just to try out something cheap and go from there. Could get that for the equivalent of ~US $50.


----------



## Juturna

BooleanBones said:


> I have the same curiosity and have ordered some to try out. I'm sure others will chime in, but I think the Sure215 TW2 combo is pretty good in the price category. Here in the US it basically boils down to getting the TW2 adapter and a set of single driver iems (215), with the iems landing around 40$ in that package. @Tommy C  is using them now and might provide is thoughts on SQ etc.


I see! I was looking at the KZ AZ09 and that seems incredibly cheap in comparison to the Shure TW2 ones, even though I bet they're different in many ways. It's almost 1/10 of the price here where i'm at. Okay i'm exaggerating but $35 vs $200 pretty much.


----------



## BooleanBones

jant71 said:


> Hmmm. First real snow tomorrow. 3-5 inches and I wonder how the CKS50 ANC will do at eliminating shoveling noise.


Pass the shoveling test?


----------



## Juturna

jant71 said:


> You could get the KZ AZ09 Pro and a pair of the CCA CRA. Just to try out something cheap and go from there. Could get that for the equivalent of US $50.


Yeah I was looking at those. What I was uncertain with the AZ09 Pro was which IEM's are compatible, is it all 2-pin/0,75mm earbuds that would work with them? I could probably go a bit more expensive than the CCA CRA if I find something worth the money, it's mostly that I want the adapter to be somewhat cheap if I don't end up liking it.


----------



## jant71 (Jan 7, 2022)

Juturna said:


> Yeah I was looking at those. What I was uncertain with the AZ09 Pro was which IEM's are compatible, is it all 2-pin/0,75mm earbuds that would work with them? I could probably go a bit more expensive than the CCA CRA if I find something worth the money, it's mostly that I want the adapter to be somewhat cheap if I don't end up liking it.


You want B pin version to be more compatible. The CCA is a real overachiever and maybe be better to keep it cheaper to try. What if you decide to upgrade to the Shure TWS adapters? Might be best to try it out as cheap as possible then get the best earphone in the right connector you will end up needing. Connection adapters change the fit geometry adding to the length and they can break. I had a pair start cutting out on one side. Figure out if it works.


----------



## guitarizt

Tommy C said:


> I purchased it from Amazon Canada. Great price too.
> https://www.amazon.ca/dp/B099KT6QYJ/ref=twister_B09KW7BHSB?_encoding=UTF8&th=1


Ah ok, I didn't know for sure if those were the se215's or aonic 215's, but I think both mean the same thing. I can see se215 on everything now both separately for amazon and on the tw2 combo. That makes the 229 price tag easier to swallow. It's so ironic because before I knew anything or googled much these were what I was going to buy because I love my shure srh840s, but the tw2 combo got bad reviews from tech people and audiophiles. What they hate might be what I love, though.

My timeless are out for delivery today, a day early! UTWS3's come tomorrow I think. Depending on how all that goes I'll see about the tw2. It's just tough because for not much more I could get the dusks.


----------



## guitarizt

Juturna said:


> What's the absolute cheapest I could get away with if I want a bluetooth adapter and an IEM that sounds better than most/any true wireless earbuds, just to try out if it's worth it to me? I think I kinda prefer the convenience of actual TWS's but I'm very curious to try out something, haven't really used wired earbuds for many many years now so I feel like I've lost all reference points on how good they can sound in comparison.


I'm still new, but the galaxy bud pros are such a solid buy at 130 new on us amazon. They pop up used there for high 70s sometimes which is just an incredible deal. I've bought buds+, live, and pros from there used and they all came like new. Crin and others have given the pros great reviews. I differ with other people in that I hate the buds+. It's the pros or nothing imo. I'm sure others will chime in.


----------



## cytoSiN

Has anyone used the TW2 with Andro or Solaris?  Curious on thoughts for those specific combos.  Thanks!


----------



## erockg

voicemaster said:


> I rotate my KZ AZ09 pro, 2 UTWS5 and TRN BT20s pro regularly and no problem so far. As long as I put or turn off the previous connected bluetooth earhook then proceeed to turning on whichever I want to connect next, it usually happened without a hitch. I never had any of my UTWS5 override another set of bluetooth.


That said, the Fiio adapters "should" turn off when I put them in the case.  Sadly, they keep waking up.  I shouldn't have to power them off manually each time.  I'm unpacking them now and will do a few tests all morning.  Wish me luck!


----------



## erockg

cytoSiN said:


> Has anyone used the TW2 with Andro or Solaris?  Curious on thoughts for those specific combos.  Thanks!


Theoretically, if they're MMCX they should work fine.  You may have to choose a different setting as to which Shure bud you're using in the app.  That will pump up the power if you need to.  I'm doing that with the Variations right now.  In my case, the Variations need that MMCX to 2 Pin adapter which causes a funky fit with the TW2.  It works, it's just not a if you're using a Shure bud or another MMCX bud.


----------



## scubaphish

erockg said:


> Theoretically, if they're MMCX they should work fine.  You may have to choose a different setting as to which Shure bud you're using in the app.  That will pump up the power if you need to.  I'm doing that with the Variations right now.  In my case, the Variations need that MMCX to 2 Pin adapter which causes a funky fit with the TW2.  It works, it's just not a if you're using a Shure bud or another MMCX bud.


Which bud do you set the TW2 to in order to get more power?  Safe assumption that more drivers means more power so pick 846?


----------



## HaliHarry

darveniza said:


> It's a good set, except I keep rotating between units


So exited. Is Fw1000t better than B&O EQ ???


----------



## erockg

scubaphish said:


> Which bud do you set the TW2 to in order to get more power?  Safe assumption that more drivers means more power so pick 846?


Oddly enough, I have them in now and set the power to the SE215 for my Moondrop Variations.  The SE846 setting put out _less_ power.


----------



## scubaphish

erockg said:


> Oddly enough, I have them in now and set the power to the SE215 for my Moondrop Variations.  The SE846 setting put out _less_ power.


<insert shocked face>


----------



## erockg

HaliHarry said:


> So exited. Is Fw1000t better than B&O EQ ???


Most here haven't tried the new JVCs yet, only one has tried the Victor Japan variations which may be tuned different.  I did see the JVCs are 8% off at Amazon US today.


----------



## voicemaster

Juturna said:


> I see! I was looking at the KZ AZ09 and that seems incredibly cheap in comparison to the Shure TW2 ones, even though I bet they're different in many ways. It's almost 1/10 of the price here where i'm at. Okay i'm exaggerating but $35 vs $200 pretty much.


Get the pro. The original AZ09 is known to have connection drop outs issue. The pro is better in every aspects.


----------



## voicemaster

erockg said:


> That said, the Fiio adapters "should" turn off when I put them in the case.  Sadly, they keep waking up.  I shouldn't have to power them off manually each time.  I'm unpacking them now and will do a few tests all morning.  Wish me luck!


Since the UTWS5 now available on Amazon (prime shipping too), should be an easy return if something like yours happen. Luckily both mine has been problems free so far.


----------



## erockg

voicemaster said:


> Since the UTWS5 now available on Amazon (prime shipping too), should be an easy return if something like yours happen. Luckily both mine has been problems free so far.


You know I know it!  Sadly, OOS for days, maybe over a week now.  "Currently Unavailable."  Yay!


----------



## Tommy C

BooleanBones said:


> I have the same curiosity and have ordered some to try out. I'm sure others will chime in, but I think the Sure215 TW2 combo is pretty good in the price category. Here in the US it basically boils down to getting the TW2 adapter and a set of single driver iems (215), with the iems landing around 40$ in that package. @Tommy C  is using them now and might provide is thoughts on SQ etc.


@Juturna I truly enjoy the TW2 with the SE215 Special Edition as they sound really nice and as good as wired, however they are not the cheapest. Personally I'm not a big believer in random Chi-Fi stuff as it's such a hit and miss and I use my TWS a lot for work and pleasure.
Maybe Fiio then? But even then I see some report issues with their adapters so it's a tough call.
With the Shure TW2 you get a quality, reliable products. I haven't had a single issue with it but mind you, I'm a bit biased because it costs less in Canada.
I paid around  $170 USD and IMO they sound better than other TWS in that price bracket. 
The fit is also very slick, secure and comfortable. They have buttons and I prefer those over touch controls. 
I hope this helps.


----------



## erockg

scubaphish said:


> <insert shocked face>


The fit is definitely odd but doable with other buds.  Proceed with caution!


----------



## erockg

Tommy C said:


> @Juturna I truly enjoy the TW2 with the SE215 Special Edition as they sound really nice and as good as wired, however they are not the cheapest. Personally I'm not a big believer in random Chi-Fi stuff as it's such a hit and miss and I use my TWS a lot for work and pleasure.
> Maybe Fiio then? But even then I see some report issues with their adapters so it's a tough call.
> With the Shure TW2 you get a quality, reliable products. I haven't had a single issue with it but mind you, I'm a bit biased because it costs less in Canada.
> I paid around  $170 USD and IMO they sound better than other TWS in that price bracket.
> ...


Totally agree with you here.  The Shure TW2 Second Gen is just most most refined adapter out there yet.  Granted, it'll work best with Shure buds, but as everyone can read, I've been experimenting.


----------



## 3Putter

I love my B&O H9 3rd Gen for putzing around the house. The APP's are really good for Apple Music Spatial and for watching movies on the MacBook or phone. They're both good for music listening and I can run my B&O's wired through a desktop DAC and AMP. Still hard to give up on my wired sets for sheets and giggles. I really wanted to love the AirPods Max but they just weren't loud enough and didn't sound as good as my H9's. I'm probably one of three people in the world who felt this way. LOL. I have enjoyed this thread and appreciate all the work you all do to keep spending to push the wireless issue forward.


----------



## BooleanBones

Tommy C said:


> @Juturna I truly enjoy the TW2 with the SE215 Special Edition as they sound really nice and as good as wired, however they are not the cheapest. Personally I'm not a big believer in random Chi-Fi stuff as it's such a hit and miss and I use my TWS a lot for work and pleasure.
> Maybe Fiio then? But even then I see some report issues with their adapters so it's a tough call.
> With the Shure TW2 you get a quality, reliable products. I haven't had a single issue with it but mind you, I'm a bit biased because it costs less in Canada.
> I paid around  $170 USD and IMO they sound better than other TWS in that price bracket.
> ...


I don't think the adapter pics do them much justice either. They are smaller than I anticipated (the Aonic-5s just got here). Overwhelming amount of stuff they send with the bundle


----------



## erockg

BooleanBones said:


> I don't think the adapter pics do them much justice either. They are smaller than I anticipated (the Aonic-5s just got here). Overwhelming amount of stuff they send with the bundle


Buckle up!  Yeah they put a lot of tip options in there too.  The TW2s are tiny.  I mean, the Fiio are too.  Happy Friday for YOU!


----------



## BooleanBones

erockg said:


> Buckle up!  Yeah they put a lot of tip options in there too.  The TW2s are tiny.  I mean, the Fiio are too.  Happy Friday for YOU!


Santa stayed for a cup of joe and just took off. Gonna be a busy day around here for "Shure"


----------



## erockg

BooleanBones said:


> Santa stayed for a cup of joe and just took off. Gonna be a busy day around here for "Shure"


*rimshot


----------



## cytoSiN

erockg said:


> Oddly enough, I have them in now and set the power to the SE215 for my Moondrop Variations.  The SE846 setting put out _less_ power.


That's not so odd I don't think, the 215s are like 17ohms and the 846 I think are 9?  It's all about impedance.  In theory you'd pick the Shure buds with the highest impedance to force the most power to the buds.  I want to say Solaris is like 7-10?  So I should have some good options for power if I try to combo.


----------



## erockg

cytoSiN said:


> That's not so odd I don't think, the 215s are like 17ohms and the 846 I think are 9?  It's all about impedance.  In theory you'd pick the Shure buds with the highest impedance to force the most power to the buds.  I want to say Solaris is like 7-10?  So I should have some good options for power if I try to combo.


I figured that, yeah.  Just make sure the angle of the Solaris is similar to a Shure bud.  The Variations have to force the TW2 adapter in a different position.  Some folks may resist the hassle.


----------



## cytoSiN

erockg said:


> I figured that, yeah.  Just make sure the angle of the Solaris is similar to a Shure bud.  The Variations have to force the TW2 adapter in a different position.  Some folks may resist the hassle.


Hrrrrrrrrrrrm.  This does complicate things.  Thankfully Amazon returns are easy.  But MAN there are so many factors...why can't someone just make a bud with Fokus SQ and ambient?!!?!


----------



## scubaphish

cytoSiN said:


> Hrrrrrrrrrrrm.  This does complicate things.  Thankfully Amazon returns are easy.  But MAN there are so many factors...why can't someone just make a bud with Fokus SQ and ambient?!!?!


Yes, yes it does complicate things…as I shop IEMs


----------



## cytoSiN

scubaphish said:


> Yes, yes it does complicate things…as I shop IEMs


If you're just shopping for IEMs and don't care about wireless I love my Etymotics, and didn't find anything more expensive that made me want to stop listening to them until I found Solaris, but that's a big gulf in price, even now and even with B-stock sales...


----------



## scubaphish

cytoSiN said:


> If you're just shopping for IEMs and don't care about wireless I love my Etymotics, and didn't find anything more expensive that made me want to stop listening to them until I found Solaris, but that's a big gulf in price, even now and even with B-stock sales...


I’m  looking to pair with the TW2, potential to swap out the 535s. Thanks to @Tommy C I’m currently sitting with the Campfire Audio Onyx (hybrid 1 DD, 1 BA) in my cart…with an itchy trigger finger on the buy button.


----------



## cytoSiN

scubaphish said:


> I’m  looking to pair with the TW2, potential to swap out the 535s. Thanks to @Tommy C I’m currently sitting with the Campfire Audio Onyx (hybrid 1 DD, 1 BA) in my cart…with an itchy trigger finger on the buy button.


I can't help you there (well, I can help you BUY THEM, but I can't help you pull back that itchy finger).  I love the CA signature.  I tried the Andro and liked it but wasn't blown away...Solaris totally blew me away though.  It still does every time I get them out.


----------



## scubaphish

cytoSiN said:


> I can't help you there (well, I can help you BUY THEM, but I can't help you pull back that itchy finger).  I love the CA signature.  I tried the Andro and liked it but wasn't blown away...Solaris totally blew me away though.  It still does every time I get them out.


Fair enough. Maybe I can pull back from the edge when @BooleanBones gets back to group with tales of the Aonic 5 (i.e., 535) and how they are the best sounding phones he’s ever heard; it will put it all in perspective for me . 😂

They’re on backorder anyway so might as well order them, right?  Right?!


----------



## cytoSiN

scubaphish said:


> Fair enough. Maybe I can pull back from the edge when @BooleanBones gets back to group with tales of the Aonic 5 (i.e., 535) and how they are the best sounding phones he’s ever heard; it will put it all in perspective for me . 😂
> 
> They’re on backorder anyway so might as well order them, right?  Right?!


See backorder would make them a pass for me.  I need instant gratification over here.


----------



## erockg

cytoSiN said:


> If you're just shopping for IEMs and don't care about wireless I love my Etymotics, and didn't find anything more expensive that made me want to stop listening to them until I found Solaris, but that's a big gulf in price, even now and even with B-stock sales...


Truly loved my Etys.  Used to use them for years.  They were my go-to.


----------



## erockg

scubaphish said:


> Fair enough. Maybe I can pull back from the edge when @BooleanBones gets back to group with tales of the Aonic 5 (i.e., 535) and how they are the best sounding phones he’s ever heard; it will put it all in perspective for me . 😂
> 
> They’re on backorder anyway so might as well order them, right?  Right?!


If he doesn't like them (I wish he sprung for the SE846) I'll buy a round.


----------



## BooleanBones

scubaphish said:


> Fair enough. Maybe I can pull back from the edge when @BooleanBones gets back to group with tales of the Aonic 5 (i.e., 535) and how they are the best sounding phones he’s ever heard; it will put it all in perspective for me . 😂
> 
> They’re on backorder anyway so might as well order them, right?  Right?!


The Aonic 5s are supposedly just a little different sonically according to the "marketing", but not sure how much or if at all. They come with the filters from the 846, so going to mess with that later. Out of the box acoustics on them is pretty nice and the comfort/size I really like. The wire with them kind of sucks


----------



## erockg

BooleanBones said:


> The Aonic 5s are supposedly just a little different sonically according to the "marketing", but not sure how much or if at all. They come with the filters from the 846, so going to mess with that later. Out of the box acoustics on them is pretty nice and the comfort/size I really like. The wire with them kind of sucks


This isn't a wire thread, Boo.  C'maaaaaaahn.


----------



## BooleanBones

erockg said:


> This isn't a wire thread, Boo.  C'maaaaaaahn.


Grew impatient waiting for the TWs to charge, so went old school with them


----------



## guitarizt

Just got my timeless. It's interesting. Def more on par with my shure srh840s. I might stop here. Someone was asking about tws buds earlier. The pros are great. It gets so close to this imo, and arguably could be better for a more fun sound. Plus with the price at 130 on amazon it's incredible.

First thing that oddly sticks out to me with the timeless is the bass. Really, really surprised by it. It has way more bass than I was expecting, not good or bad. Technically, these are great. Better than my shure over the ears. I think I'd like a more fun sound sig though, maybe v shaped, idk. I basically just want my 840s in iems, lol!


----------



## erockg

BooleanBones said:


> Grew impatient waiting for the TWs to charge, so went old school with them


Jeez, my wires are still in the box in the closet!  

I _think_ the FH9 are going back.  Tormented.


----------



## scubaphish

BooleanBones said:


> The Aonic 5s are supposedly just a little different sonically according to the "marketing", but not sure how much or if at all. They come with the filters from the 846, so going to mess with that later. Out of the box acoustics on them is pretty nice and the comfort/size I really like. The wire with them kind of sucks


Yeah, pretty sure same internals; you get filters and nozzles. 

https://service.shure.com/Service/s/article/SE535-vs-AONIC-5?language=en_US


----------



## scubaphish

guitarizt said:


> Just got my timeless. It's interesting. Def more on par with my shure srh840s. I might stop here. Someone was asking about tws buds earlier. The pros are great. It gets so close to this imo, and arguably could be better for a more fun sound. Plus with the price at 130 on amazon it's incredible.
> 
> First thing that oddly sticks out to me with the timeless is the bass. Really, really surprised by it. It has way more bass than I was expecting, not good or bad. Technically, these are great. Better than my shure over the ears. I think I'd like a more fun sound sig though, maybe v shaped, idk. I basically just want my 840s in iems, lol!


Forget it…I misunderstood


----------



## cytoSiN (Jan 7, 2022)

erockg said:


> Truly loved my Etys.  Used to use them for years.  They were my go-to.


That's what got me balls deep in this hobby to be honest.  I needed something with some good isolation for commuting during law school.  My then girlfriend/now wife bought ER4-PTs for Christmas and my music opened up.  Haven't looked back since.  Note that before that I was using whatever crappy foam-covered over-the-ear garbage came with my walkman/discman whatever.  So it was a MAJOR step up for me.


----------



## erockg

cytoSiN said:


> That's what got me balls deep in this hobby to be honest.  I needed something with some good isolation for commuting during law school.  My then girlfriend/now wife bought ER4-PTs for Christmas and my music opened up.  Haven't looked back since.  Note that before that I was using whatever crappy foam-covered over-the-ear garbage came with my walkman/discman whatever.  So it was a MAJOR step up for me.


Funny, I used my Etys on a train commute for years.  They were heavenly.  I actually revisited them (the ER4s) a few years back and had Plussound make a bt cable before Ety released one.  Really loved them.  Problem now is, once you go TWS it's so hard to go backwards.  UE said they were working on a TWS adapter too.  Sorry, I digress.


----------



## cytoSiN

erockg said:


> Funny, I used my Etys on a train commute for years.  They were heavenly.  I actually revisited them (the ER4s) a few years back and had Plussound make a bt cable before Ety released one.  Really loved them.  Problem now is, once you go TWS it's so hard to go backwards.  UE said they were working on a TWS adapter too.  Sorry, I digress.



Yeah I needed to convert my Etys to a hotswappable cable, so I ordered a 2-pin OCC Awesome cable with swappable tips and I love it...can use my Etys with my USB-C phone and all my DX220 amps.  That's why I got the DUNU Blanche cable for the Solaris too.  I agree TWS brings amazing things, but as I've been complaining of late, until I can get Solaris SQ from something wireless, I neeeeeds mah wires!


----------



## erockg (Jan 7, 2022)

cytoSiN said:


> Yeah I needed to convert my Etys to a hotswappable cable, so I ordered a 2-pin OCC Awesome cable with swappable tips and I love it...can use my Etys with my USB-C phone and all my DX220 amps.  That's why I got the DUNU Blanche cable for the Solaris too.  I agree TWS brings amazing things, but as I've been complaining of late, until I can get Solaris SQ from something wireless, I neeeeeds mah wires!


As I've prob said to others, I can't even go down the amp rabbit hole.  That would open a bigger world of obsession here


----------



## cytoSiN

erockg said:


> As I've prob said to others, I can't even go down the amp rabbit hole.  That would open a bigger world of obsession here


Neither can I.  The DX220 was just to play high fidelity audio without the need for a desktop computer.  Sooner or later phones will have better DACs and it'll be moot.  But then when I was choosing a DAP I realized I could get multiple different sound signatures from one tool with swappable amps and I was like "well crap that's pretty awesome" and the rest is history.  And thankfully they make cables with swappable tips.  Someday though, we'll bridge all this high quality source material and SQ and all the TWS features, and I'll find my Shangri-La (lol, as if this journey will ever end!).


----------



## msooffutt

Phaethon said:


> Open box Fokus for $296
> https://audio46.com/products/noble-audio-fokus-pro-true-wireless-iems-open-box


Thanks for the heads up on this.  I just got the last one and they arrived today.  Audio64 shipped them out and they came the very next day.  They look brand new and sound as good as everyone says they do.   That was a pretty good deal.  I wish they had transparency, but the sound makes up for it, and I have other true wireless I can use when I need that.


----------



## LordToneeus

Juturna said:


> Yeah I was looking at those. What I was uncertain with the AZ09 Pro was which IEM's are compatible, is it all 2-pin/0,75mm earbuds that would work with them? I could probably go a bit more expensive than the CCA CRA if I find something worth the money, it's mostly that I want the adapter to be somewhat cheap if I don't end up liking it.


I learned the hard way (by not reading closely enough) that not all two-pin iems will work with them (without a sharp knife and a steady hand.  The AZO9 Pro's have a 'type c' connection, which means they'll only work with iems that have a connection protruding from the body (as opposed to flush or concave).  For example, they will work with KZ ZAX, ZAS, ZS10 Pro and the like, but they will not, absent the aforementioned warranty-defying modification, work with something like the Arias or Fiio EA3.  

I know because I tried.


----------



## LordToneeus

scubaphish said:


> Which bud do you set the TW2 to in order to get more power?  Safe assumption that more drivers means more power so pick 846?


You'd think so, but I seem to get more power out of the SE215 setting and much less out of the 846 setting for my Westone UM Pro 30's.  I don't know, but I'm assuming everything above the SE215/AONIC 2 are much lower impedance iems and therefore require much less of a jolt.  Speaking completely out of my bung here, except that I got more volume at a lower level on the SE215 setting than on the 846 setting.


----------



## Phaethon

erockg said:


> Most here haven't tried the new JVCs yet, only one has tried the Victor Japan variations which may be tuned different.  I did see the JVCs are 8% off at Amazon US today.


I just want the picture of the RCA Victor dog (Nipper) on my TWS’!


----------



## BooleanBones

erockg said:


> I'm not sure the Sennies will fit on the Shure TW2 because they use a proprietary connector I THINK.  I've always wanted to try the IE300.  I had those JVC's from Drop too and I couldn't get a good fit.  The Aonic buds will fit like a glove.  Sorry, not trying to crap in your oatmeal.


The Sennies won't fit of course (as expected), which is such a shame. These are very nice tiny monsters. They did a very good job producing this kind of sound out of such a small footprint. You barely notice anything in you ears at all.


----------



## guitarizt

Eff the science and what crin says. These timeless sound better just even two hrs after breaking in listening to music. The sounds mesh together better. I'm really surprised no one seemed to emphasize the bass on these. That's what keeps surprising me. I can't describe in words like the other audiophiles can, but these remind me of movie theater speakers. Same bass feel and sound sig.

It'll be blasphemy, but the galaxy pros might have a more fun sound signature to me. These are def better, but man the pros are close. I feel like the timeless need an amp to shine, contrary to popular opinion out there.


----------



## BooleanBones

msooffutt said:


> Thanks for the heads up on this.  I just got the last one and they arrived today.  Audio64 shipped them out and they came the very next day.  They look brand new and sound as good as everyone says they do.   That was a pretty good deal.  I wish they had transparency, but the sound makes up for it, and I have other true wireless I can use when I need that.


I am going to get some t-shirts printed up I think. The Fokus Gang on the front with our names on the back


----------



## erockg

BooleanBones said:


> The Sennies won't fit of course (as expected), which is such a shame. These are very nice tiny monsters. They did a very good job producing this kind of sound out of such a small footprint. You barely notice anything in you ears at all.


Funny you just posted this.  I just read you might be able to use an adapter because the mmcx connector is recessed.  Is that true?  There has to be a way!


----------



## BooleanBones

erockg said:


> Funny you just posted this.  I just read you might be able to use an adapter because the mmcx connector is recessed.  Is that true?  There has to be a way!


I saw something about that too. I will post a pic of the buds next to my 5s to give you an idea of just how small they are. Going to run them through the ringer this afternoon since my meetings are done.


----------



## dweaver

erockg said:


> I figured that, yeah.  Just make sure the angle of the Solaris is similar to a Shure bud.  The Variations have to force the TW2 adapter in a different position.  Some folks may resist the hassle.


Interesting, I took a look at the Shure shell shape versus my B400 and FXA2 and both will have the same fit issue...

Put the brakes on my desire to get the TW2 for the moment. Not that I to serious yet anyway...


----------



## erockg

dweaver said:


> Interesting, I took a look at the Shure shell shape versus my B400 and FXA2 and both will have the same fit issue...
> 
> Put the brakes on my desire to get the TW2 for the moment. Not that I to serious yet anyway...


I can't find an L-Shaped adapter anywhere but AliExpress, but curious if that could fit the fit issue.


----------



## cytoSiN (Jan 7, 2022)

LordToneeus said:


> You'd think so, but I seem to get more power out of the SE215 setting and much less out of the 846 setting for my Westone UM Pro 30's.  I don't know, but I'm assuming everything above the SE215/AONIC 2 are much lower impedance iems and therefore require much less of a jolt.  Speaking completely out of my bung here, except that I got more volume at a lower level on the SE215 setting than on the 846 setting.


RIght, it's all about impedance, not number of drivers.  Etys are tiny but high impedance (45 ohms).  Solaris are huge but low impedance (6-10).  The 215s (17) are double the impedance of the 846 (9).


----------



## cytoSiN

erockg said:


> I can't find an L-Shaped adapter anywhere but AliExpress, but curious if that could fit the fit issue.


Lunashops probably has something that would work, but it's similar to Aliexpress in terms of coming from Asia and taking a long time to process/ship to the US.


----------



## erockg

cytoSiN said:


> Lunashops probably has something that would work, but it's similar to Aliexpress in terms of coming from Asia and taking a long time to process/ship to the US.


I found them, but you know, the waiting is the hardest part.


----------



## BooleanBones

scubaphish said:


> Fair enough. Maybe I can pull back from the edge when @BooleanBones gets back to group with tales of the Aonic 5 (i.e., 535) and how they are the best sounding phones he’s ever heard; it will put it all in perspective for me . 😂
> 
> They’re on backorder anyway so might as well order them, right?  Right?!


You may get your finger warmed up practicing on clicking the order button. No good tales to tell as of yet.


----------



## scubaphish (Jan 7, 2022)

BooleanBones said:


> You may get your finger warmed up practicing on clicking the order button. No good tales to tell as of yet.


Hmmmm…tbh I’ve been eq’ing them of late. Bump in upper and lower registers.

There was a time I thought these were the shiznat!

Order button only works if they fit on the TW2. Otherwise is back to my trusty Gemini


----------



## BooleanBones

scubaphish said:


> Hmmmm…tbh I’ve been eq’ing them of late. Bump in upper and lower registers.


I think that is a must with these for sure after starting to listen to them. They are nice, but I haven't concluded they are 400$ nice to me yet  I love the fit with the adapters, it rocks.


----------



## erockg

BooleanBones said:


> I think that is a must with these for sure after starting to listen to them. They are nice, but I haven't concluded they are 400$ nice to me yet  I love the fit with the adapters, it rocks.


Might want to pick up another MMCX, like a Fiio or something to compare and contrast. I wasn't a big fan of the 535 and then got the 846 and really felt there was a significant difference. But that's just me. The guy sitting here listening to the FH9 yet again and thinking wow these really do have a great soundstage.


----------



## BooleanBones

erockg said:


> Might want to pick up another MMCX, like a Fiio or something to compare and contrast. I wasn't a big fan of the 535 and then got the 846 and really felt there was a significant difference. But that's just me. The guy sitting here listening to the FH9 yet again and thinking wow these really do have a great soundstage.


Let the party begin  I will give this some attention tonight. Dang work keeps interrupting the important stuff.


----------



## dj24

If anyone is looking for a cheap impulse buy that's IPX7 rated and good with zoom and other types of calls- these are currently just $15 on Amazon.  Bart just reviewed them and they're budget champs..


----------



## cytoSiN (Jan 7, 2022)

dj24 said:


> If anyone is looking for a cheap impulse buy that's IPX7 rated and good with zoom and other types of calls- these are currently just $15 on Amazon.  Bart just reviewed them and they're budget champs..


Nice.  For "wet" applications (and also Zoom) I like my Tozo T12, they have an IPX8 rating (I think that's as high as it goes?), and they're $32 now with Amazon coupon.


----------



## Tommy C

BooleanBones said:


> I don't think the adapter pics do them much justice either. They are smaller than I anticipated (the Aonic-5s just got here). Overwhelming amount of stuff they send with the bundle


Looking forward to hear your thoughts about the Aonic-5


----------



## Tommy C

cytoSiN said:


> If you're just shopping for IEMs and don't care about wireless I love my Etymotics, and didn't find anything more expensive that made me want to stop listening to them until I found Solaris, but that's a big gulf in price, even now and even with B-stock sales...



I keep thinking that I would love to see something from Etymotic in the TWS world.
Which model are you using?


----------



## cytoSiN

Tommy C said:


> I keep thinking that I would love to see something from Etymotic in the TWS world.
> Which model are you using?


These days just the ER4s in my sig.  I've had various ER4s over the years and some of the lower models too.  ER4s are really insane performers at the price point, even at full price.


----------



## Tommy C

cytoSiN said:


> These days just the ER4s in my sig.  I've had various ER4s over the years and some of the lower models too.  ER4s are really insane performers at the price point, even at full price.


The ER2XR are insane value too and not much far behind the ER4 but just a bit different.


----------



## cytoSiN

Tommy C said:


> The ER2XR are insane value too and not much far behind the ER4 but just a bit different.


I believe it. I've never heard any ety product I didn't like.


----------



## BooleanBones

Off topic but any of you folks Prime members on Amazon Japan? Is it still a charge on global shipping or is it free like domestic? TIA


----------



## erockg

BooleanBones said:


> Off topic but any of you folks Prime members on Amazon Japan? Is it still a charge on global shipping or is it free like domestic? TIA


I was, but it didn't matter.  Still cost.  I paid the extra for Express shipping and stuff flew through customs.


----------



## BooleanBones

erockg said:


> I was, but it didn't matter.  Still cost.  I paid the extra for Express shipping and stuff flew through customs.


Thanks much  846s will be here Sunday for sound comparison lol


----------



## 3Putter

erockg said:


> I figured that, yeah.  Just make sure the angle of the Solaris is similar to a Shure bud.  The Variations have to force the TW2 adapter in a different position.  Some folks may resist the hassle.


Jeebus, looks like the Hindenburg got stuck behind your ears! LOL


----------



## 3Putter (Jan 7, 2022)

cytoSiN said:


> If you're just shopping for IEMs and don't care about wireless I love my Etymotics, and didn't find anything more expensive that made me want to stop listening to them until I found Solaris, but that's a big gulf in price, even now and even with B-stock sales...


Solaris = $1300. Do they sound THAT much better than a  $500 pair?


----------



## erockg

BooleanBones said:


> Thanks much  846s will be here Sunday for sound comparison lol


crap, now I have to put mine in.  I EQ them.  BTW, the FH9 really are for those who want a truly balanced sound.  Not one instrument is overshadowed.  Soundstage on this album is melting my brain:  






3Putter said:


> Jeebus, looks like the Hindenburg got stuck behind your ears! LOL


R101, duh.


----------



## erockg

BooleanBones said:


> Thanks much  846s will be here Sunday for sound comparison lol


I hope you got them from a place with a good return policy just in case!  I'm listening to mine now, they just need some EQ to get that bass to rumble.  Out of the box they're very clinical, which isn't bad all all... but you know me.  I like the headquakes here in CA.


----------



## BooleanBones

erockg said:


> I hope you got them from a place with a good return policy just in case!  I'm listening to mine now, they just need some EQ to get that bass to rumble.  Out of the box they're very clinical, which isn't bad all all... but you know me.  I like the headquakes here in CA.


Actually the 5s are as well. Like Scuba mentioned, a little tweaking in the EQ and some tip swapping and they are coming around. So far though, they are definitely not a bass lover's choice. I really like the fit, so want to see what the other models sound like before running a different iem on the TW2s.


----------



## Tommy C (Jan 7, 2022)

BooleanBones said:


> Actually the 5s are as well. Like Scuba mentioned, a little tweaking in the EQ and some tip swapping and they are coming around. So far though, they are definitely not a bass lover's choice. I really like the fit, so want to see what the other models sound like before running a different iem on the TW2s.



Funny enough that was my reaction when I first listened to the SE 215 Special Edition that according to Shure are: "Sound signature; Slightly warmer, minor boost in the low frequency response." I was expecting a borderline bassheads' wet dream but was pleasantly surprised when I heard them and the sound was very balanced and I even added some bass for warmth.

I think in the TWS space the default sound signature is V shape with overly boosted bass so most of us here sort of forgot what balanced sound should sound like lol


----------



## erockg

BooleanBones said:


> Actually the 5s are as well. Like Scuba mentioned, a little tweaking in the EQ and some tip swapping and they are coming around. So far though, they are definitely not a bass lover's choice. I really like the fit, so want to see what the other models sound like before running a different iem on the TW2s.


Gotcha.  I'm doing some critical listening to this one song with the FH9, Variations and now the SE846 (with EQ).  FH9 have the biggest soundstage.  SE846 with a tweak have great bass response and a bit narrower stage.  Variations have punch but definitely lack in the soundstage area compared to the other two.  They have nice sub-bass but it's not as full as the other two.  The best snug fit is the Shure by far.  FH9 with the UTSW5 second and sadly the Variations with the adapter is okay, but you just deal if you want the TWS option.  I know the BT30s will fit them because I had the BT20 with my Blessing 2s and they fit great.  In the end, clearly Shure IEM for Shure, Fiio for Fiio.  The others hit or miss.  

Either I'm losing my mind (possibly) or these FH9s are really burning in and opening up.


----------



## scubaphish

Tommy C said:


> Funny enough that was my reaction when I first listed to the SE 215 Special Edition that according to Shure are: "Sound signature; Slightly warmer, minor boost in the low frequency response." I was expecting a borderline bassheads' wet dream but was pleasantly surprised when I heard them and the sound was very balanced and I even added some bass for warmth.
> 
> I think in the TWS the default sound signature is V shape with overly boosted bass so most of us here sort of forgot what balanced sound should sound like lol


🎯


----------



## erockg

Tommy C said:


> Funny enough that was my reaction when I first listened to the SE 215 Special Edition that according to Shure are: "Sound signature; Slightly warmer, minor boost in the low frequency response." I was expecting a borderline bassheads' wet dream but was pleasantly surprised when I heard them and the sound was very balanced and I even added some bass for warmth.
> 
> I think in the TWS space the default sound signature is V shape with overly boosted bass so most of us here sort of forgot what balanced sound should sound like lol


Ha ha! 100%


----------



## BooleanBones

Tommy C said:


> Funny enough that was my reaction when I first listed to the SE 215 Special Edition that according to Shure are: "Sound signature; Slightly warmer, minor boost in the low frequency response." I was expecting a borderline bassheads' wet dream but was pleasantly surprised when I heard them and the sound was very balanced and I even added some bass for warmth.
> 
> I think in the TWS the default sound signature is V shape with overly boosted bass so most of us here sort of forgot what balanced sound should sound like lol


Yeah, for sure. Fortunately, I listen to a ton of acoustical and unplugged music which is really enhanced with this set. I have the 215s sitting here too which I will also compare, but have to give the 5s some love first.


----------



## scubaphish

BooleanBones said:


> Yeah, for sure. Fortunately, I listen to a ton of acoustical and unplugged music which is really enhanced with this set. I have the 215s sitting here too which I will also compare, but have to give the 5s some love first.


Have you tried swapping nozzles yet?  Not rushing you or anything…just curious


----------



## BooleanBones

scubaphish said:


> Have you tried swapping nozzles yet?  Not rushing you or anything…just curious


Yep, I am running the warm ones with final tips and it changed quite a bit (better) going to run some other iterations. It’s like conquering a 100 piece puzzle then going and buying a 3000 piece puzzle while thumping your chest. So many variations to try. I will try the foams, but not a fan of foam tips really.


----------



## Tommy C

BooleanBones said:


> Yeah, for sure. Fortunately, I listen to a ton of acoustical and unplugged music which is really enhanced with this set. I have the 215s sitting here too which I will also compare, but have to give the 5s some love first.


Same here. I listen to acoustical and unplugged 80% of the time. My Deezer playlist has some hidden gem and the Shure and the rest of the TWS that I currently own all play them beautifully.  The only outlier is the Sennheiser CX 400BT as their soundstage is rather unique so you kind of need to adjust your brain to them especially for unplugged stuff. 
But back to the Shure... This is not my first Shure product and I was always fairly impressed with their products and performance.


----------



## Tommy C

scubaphish said:


> Have you tried swapping nozzles yet?  Not rushing you or anything…just curious


OMG... Too funny, I literally almost spit my coffee as I was about to ask the same question but didn't want to rush him lol


----------



## erockg

Tommy C said:


> OMG... Too funny, I literally almost spit my coffee as I was about to ask the same question but didn't want to rush him lol


I just popped in the black ones.  Never cared to swap out the balanced set until you rat bastards started talking about it.


----------



## xSDMx

Wait until you guys learn about filter mods...😉


----------



## erockg

xSDMx said:


> Wait until you guys learn about filter mods...😉


Pretty much just opened a can of worms for myself.


----------



## BooleanBones

xSDMx said:


> Wait until you guys learn about filter mods...😉


I saw some of that but figured I would get the first 500 pieces in place first 😂


----------



## cytoSiN

3Putter said:


> Solaris = $1300. Do they sound THAT much better than a  $500 pair?


Well I've certainly not tried EVERY pair.  But the Solaris sounds great to me, best I've heard and it's not close (although I've not heard many others in that price range).  I listen to a lot of different genres, but most of my collection is on the heavier side (mostly metal), and they just give me a really massive soundstage that is balanced and clear, which is exactly what I want.  Once I found Solaris I honestly stopped looking at IEMs and that's been true for a couple years now.  There's a ton of reviews out there, but I'd encourage you to demo a pair if you can find them locally.  Fwiw, I've got the OG gold pair, not the 2020s, which are more v-shaped as I understand it.


----------



## erockg

erockg said:


> Pretty much just opened a can of worms for myself.


Black filter let me delete my EQ and just tweak the treble a bit.  So far, way better than what I had.


----------



## erockg

cytoSiN said:


> Well I've certainly not tried EVERY pair.  But the Solaris sounds great to me, best I've heard and it's not close (although I've not heard many others in that price range).  I listen to a lot of different genres, but most of my collection is on the heavier side (mostly metal), and they just give me a really massive soundstage that is balanced and clear, which is exactly what I want.  Once I found Solaris I honestly stopped looking at IEMs and that's been true for a couple years now.  There's a ton of reviews out there, but I'd encourage you to demo a pair if you can find them locally.  Fwiw, I've got the OG gold pair, not the 2020s, which are more v-shaped as I understand it.


I'm with ya.  I'm one of the few believers that most times you do get what you pay for.


----------



## BooleanBones

erockg said:


> Black filter let me delete my EQ and just tweak the treble a bit.  So far, way better than what I had.


Using stock tips? Which ones?


----------



## erockg

BooleanBones said:


> Using stock tips? Which ones?


I just swapped my Westone Star tips to the stock Grey tips in the box.  They seal better for me.  I have way too many tip options.  In my experience those and the double flange Ety tips work great.  Sometimes the Westone lose a seal depending on how I'm sitting, standing etc.  It's annoying.


----------



## xSDMx

I've sworn by the Westone star tips for years with my SE846, but I'll have to roll the stock Shure silicone tips again and see how they fare.


----------



## erockg

xSDMx said:


> I've sworn by the Westone star tips for years with my SE846, but I'll have to roll the stock Shure silicone tips again and see how they fare.


They always seem to slip out a bit after a while.  I probably generate too much heat!  Awwww yeah.


----------



## scubaphish

xSDMx said:


> I've sworn by the Westone star tips for years with my SE846, but I'll have to roll the stock Shure silicone tips again and see how they fare.


I roll with the grey stock silicon, too. Pretty amazing seal.


----------



## Phaethon

BooleanBones said:


> Actually the 5s are as well. Like Scuba mentioned, a little tweaking in the EQ and some tip swapping and they are coming around. So far though, they are definitely not a bass lover's choice. I really like the fit, so want to see what the other models sound like before running a different iem on the TW2s.


I got the 5s in my TW2 combo. I could never EQ them to a sound that I thought was worth it. Glad I decided to try the TW2s again with different IEMs


----------



## erockg

All I've been doing is staring at my unused TWS buds today.  Keep thinking, oh, I should pop one of those on.  Nope.  Indoors, there really is no reason if you have the TW2 or even the Fiio adapter.  I have zero issues on phone calls with the Shure setup.  None with the Fiio either outside of not as good of a mic to some.


----------



## scubaphish

Phaethon said:


> I got the 5s in my TW2 combo. I could never EQ them to a sound that I thought was worth it. Glad I decided to try the TW2s again with different IEMs


Fwiw I started with the treble boost then kicked the low shelf, at 125Hz, to 4db. Get the high hats/snares as well as some punchy bass that way.


----------



## BooleanBones

scubaphish said:


> Fwiw I started with the treble boost then kicked the low shelf, at 125Hz, to 4db. Get the high hats/snares as well as some punchy bass that way.


Gonna start playing with that shortly, thank for the starting point.


----------



## scubaphish

BooleanBones said:


> Gonna start playing with that shortly, thank for the starting point.


My pleasure. Hope it works for you.


----------



## erockg

scubaphish said:


> Fwiw I started with the treble boost then kicked the low shelf, at 125Hz, to 4db. Get the high hats/snares as well as some punchy bass that way.


Been doing the same, but with the black filter in.


----------



## AlexCBSN

Got my cks50tw last night, must admit, they are WAY better than i thought, love the soundstage, rolled tips to RADIUS deep mount clear, using adaptive apt x; i love the bass and the mids, the app is quite helpful and I’m really happy with the SQ. The caveat… i feel it needs more volume, I’m using absolute volume, haven’t experimented turning it off, ill give it a go, ANC ain’t nothing fancy, but it makes its part. I’m a wee divided about the highs, the app EQ isn’t exactly audiophile grade but I’m using dolby atmos, haven’t tried power amp EQ with it yet. I’m tempted by the utws5 but i see there’s a couple of problems running around with em. Anyways, after a while of not trying any wireless headphone lately I’m more inclined to use em since going out and about with em its way easier than making my whole plug in the usb c dac, cable, which tips i want , which iem, wait my dog just pulled the cable, it started tangling etc. Which is not like oh man so bad but still its a pain.

The collection so far (only tws)


----------



## xSDMx

Still not 100% sold on the Shure grey silicone tips vs. Westone Star tips, but definitely much better than I remember.

While rolling tips, I decided to also try swapping filters again... Holy Guacamole are the white filters HOT. Wew. Shouty. Shouty. Shouty. Not for me.


----------



## erockg

xSDMx said:


> Still not 100% sold on the Shure grey silicone tips vs. Westone Star tips, but definitely much better than I remember.
> 
> While rolling tips, I decided to also try swapping filters again... Holy Guacamole are the white filters HOT. Wew. Shouty. Shouty. Shouty. Not for me.


I'm really enjoying the Black filter with Grey silicone.  May need to add a little more treble, but it really adds some nice bass for what I listen to.


----------



## Tommy C (Jan 7, 2022)

Interestingly enough in the Shure app my default out of the box was Aonic 215 but in fact the SE215 Special Edition are SE215 so I changed it to it in the app and it does tweak the sound. Not dramatically but noticeable. It makes the highs more sparkly and the bass a bit more fuller and the sound now is less in your face. Volume remained the same. I like it even better now and it cleans up the random loudness in tracks.
Edit: also it makes the tracks feel less crowded and more spacious. Minor tweak but my ears are still sensitive enough to notice the difference.


----------



## BooleanBones

xSDMx said:


> Still not 100% sold on the Shure grey silicone tips vs. Westone Star tips, but definitely much better than I remember.
> 
> While rolling tips, I decided to also try swapping filters again... Holy Guacamole are the white filters HOT. Wew. Shouty. Shouty. Shouty. Not for me.


I just switched to the whites/clears to run it through the tracks. Noticeable for sure on vocal tracks. This is like tuning a race car for altitudes or something


----------



## BooleanBones

erockg said:


> I'm really enjoying the Black filter with Grey silicone.  May need to add a little more treble, but it really adds some nice bass for what I listen to.


Same thing I noticed, was guessing that one would be right up your alley.


----------



## davescleveland

So only me and @Dsnuts own the geekfly gf10? Truly phenomenal tws. I say that after owning 19 pairs. So these, Akg n4004, sennheiser tw2 for the win.


----------



## davescleveland

cytoSiN said:


> Well I've certainly not tried EVERY pair.  But the Solaris sounds great to me, best I've heard and it's not close (although I've not heard many others in that price range).  I listen to a lot of different genres, but most of my collection is on the heavier side (mostly metal), and they just give me a really massive soundstage that is balanced and clear, which is exactly what I want.  Once I found Solaris I honestly stopped looking at IEMs and that's been true for a couple years now.  There's a ton of reviews out there, but I'd encourage you to demo a pair if you can find them locally.  Fwiw, I've got the OG gold pair, not the 2020s, which are more v-shaped as I understand it.


I have the oh Solaris and I love them. After all the iems that I've bought I'd say the solaris, andromeda, isn 50est, (all isn are great), Akg n5005, lz a6 are all my go to sets. I love the Solaris but up against the isn h50 not so different.


----------



## erockg

davescleveland said:


> So only me and @Dsnuts own the geekfly gf10? Truly phenomenal tws. I say that after owning 19 pairs. So these, Akg n4004, sennheiser tw2 for the win.


I'm truly happy with my Noble Fokus Pros and highly highly recommend, but I've heard good things about the Geekfly.  Love the sound on the AKGs which I flipped but actually still have an unsealed copy calling my name under my desk.  I tried the MTW2s so many times, I did love them, but soooooo many better options these days.  Fortunately, the tech just keeps getting better.  Looking forward to the MTW3!  If they ever happen.


----------



## davescleveland

I'm saying these are just amazing. Am I listening to Bluetooth? The soundstage and separation are awesome


----------



## erockg

davescleveland said:


> I'm saying these are just amazing. Am I listening to Bluetooth? The soundstage and separation are awesome


You had me awesome.  I get it.  Check the Fokus.  Crazy how far we’ve come with TWS.  Now, sick IEMs with an adapter, that melts my brain.


----------



## Tommy C (Jan 8, 2022)

AlexCBSN said:


> Got my cks50tw last night, must admit, they are WAY better than i thought, love the soundstage, rolled tips to RADIUS deep mount clear, using adaptive apt x; i love the bass and the mids, the app is quite helpful and I’m really happy with the SQ. The caveat… i feel it needs more volume, I’m using absolute volume, haven’t experimented turning it off, ill give it a go, ANC ain’t nothing fancy, but it makes its part. I’m a wee divided about the highs, the app EQ isn’t exactly audiophile grade but I’m using dolby atmos, haven’t tried power amp EQ with it yet. I’m tempted by the utws5 but i see there’s a couple of problems running around with em. Anyways, after a while of not trying any wireless headphone lately I’m more inclined to use em since going out and about with em its way easier than making my whole plug in the usb c dac, cable, which tips i want , which iem, wait my dog just pulled the cable, it started tangling etc. Which is not like oh man so bad but still its a pain.
> 
> The collection so far (only tws)


My .02 cents would be not to aim to audiophile sound in the TWS world. Try and aim to something that has the features you want. I.e. ANC, Ambient mode, Multipoint, good call quality etc. and of course sound quality that is good enough when out and about.
The Fokus might have changed that as you may get very close to audiophile sound quality but then you will be missing out on a bunch of features so at this point in time, I think you will kind of need to choose what you really want or find the Jack of All Trades of TWS. That's how I put together my current rotation based on my lifestyle.


----------



## Caipirina

Caipirina said:


> Saga continues with a giant What?
> 
> So far I had no chance to share a screen print with Amazon.


In case anyone still remembers this ... it is kinda still ongoing, though I am more and more giving up on it ... the seller finally responded, way after the 48 dead line (ok, new years, I understand) and they respond in Japanese only .. and basically wonder what I am on about 'flammable liquids' (the amazon system won't let me share screen prints) .. and, now for the kicker, they happily accept the return, which I shall please send on MY expense (which also means hand written form and dealing with the post office) and if the item is opened I only get 50% back !!! what a joke! Far from the usual amazon experience ... Beware when buying from market place sellers ... not sure why this is not sold by amazon direct as so many other ATH tws ... 

I could still try to go for the A-Z guarantee ... but .. I guess I learn to love those buds ...


----------



## BooleanBones

Caipirina said:


> In case anyone still remembers this ... it is kinda still ongoing, though I am more and more giving up on it ... the seller finally responded, way after the 48 dead line (ok, new years, I understand) and they respond in Japanese only .. and basically wonder what I am on about 'flammable liquids' (the amazon system won't let me share screen prints) .. and, now for the kicker, they happily accept the return, which I shall please send on MY expense (which also means hand written form and dealing with the post office) and if the item is opened I only get 50% back !!! what a joke! Far from the usual amazon experience ... Beware when buying from market place sellers ... not sure why this is not sold by amazon direct as so many other ATH tws ...
> 
> I could still try to go for the A-Z guarantee ... but .. I guess I learn to love those buds ...


What a beating.


----------



## xSDMx

Spent some more time with the stock Shure Silicone Olives vs. Westone Star tips. It's amazing just how unique and personal IEMs and tip rolling can be given different ear canals, etc. The Silicone Olives seal well for me, but the pressure they put on my ear canal walls becomes super uncomfortable, quickly. Going down a size breaks the seal. The Westone tips fit perfectly and ameliorate the ear canal pressure while keeping a good seal. But I could see how it could be totally different for someone with a different ear physiology esp. given the different shape of both tips (bulbous vs. bullet).


----------



## Windmolinos

Hello guys. I have the Vivo tws which have the aptx adaptive. According to aptx web, this codec is supposed to be compatible with aptx and aptx hd.
I have the OnePlus nord 2, which supports aptx and aptx hd, but when i try to select any of this 2 codecs, it is automatically changed back to AAC.
any suggestion or comment that may help me?


----------



## guitarizt

I'm falling down the rabbit hole. Ordered the btr5, kinera leyding cable with adapters that gizaudio recommends on his setup for $500 video, and 2-pin to mmcx and mmcx to 2-pin adapters. It's not looking good for getting the tw2's because I love the pros, and I think I'll try to use the btr5 + timeless as much as I can get away with. Also have the utws3 coming later today that now seems like overkill, but the price was good as long as it works decently. I'll prob just keep those paired with the aria when I get them.

From here on, who knows. I want something with more energy for vocals if the btr5 and balanced cable don't work with the timeless, but I am super afraid I'm going to have to hit the 700 price point to get it. And at that point why not just 1k for the monarch mk2?


----------



## Ceeluh7

guitarizt said:


> I'm falling down the rabbit hole. Ordered the btr5, kinera leyding cable with adapters that gizaudio recommends on his setup for $500 video, and 2-pin to mmcx and mmcx to 2-pin adapters. It's not looking good for getting the tw2's because I love the pros, and I think I'll try to use the btr5 + timeless as much as I can get away with. Also have the utws3 coming later today that now seems like overkill, but the price was good as long as it works decently. I'll prob just keep those paired with the aria when I get them.
> 
> From here on, who knows. I want something with more energy for vocals if the btr5 and balanced cable don't work with the timeless, but I am super afraid I'm going to have to hit the 700 price point to get it. And at that point why not just 1k for the monarch mk2?


Gizaudio is one to follow, he will give very solid advice. I own the BTR5 and it is just as good as the Qudelix 5k as well as the IFi Go Blu. All of these devices put to shame any other wireless audio experience. If you can deal with a cable to your pocket, it is the way to go and lately I have not put down my ifi go blu and even my btr5 for some reason. I look at my tws and it just doesn't compare and I have quite a number of them. Nice purchase man, you will absolutely be happy as these devices are so close to a fully wired sound that I personally cannot tell the difference anymore and I've been doing this for awhile and even was kind of snobbish awhile over wireless setups in the early stages of wireless. It has come a long way. The BTR5 is legit and has a good app and plenty of power. Get a balanced cable for cheap and you will be happy man... Cool


----------



## cytoSiN

davescleveland said:


> I have the oh Solaris and I love them. After all the iems that I've bought I'd say the solaris, andromeda, isn 50est, (all isn are great), Akg n5005, lz a6 are all my go to sets. I love the Solaris but up against the isn h50 not so different.


Wow that's quite the praise for the isn h50, at that price I may give them a try!


----------



## cytoSiN

xSDMx said:


> Spent some more time with the stock Shure Silicone Olives vs. Westone Star tips. It's amazing just how unique and personal IEMs and tip rolling can be given different ear canals, etc. The Silicone Olives seal well for me, but the pressure they put on my ear canal walls becomes super uncomfortable, quickly. Going down a size breaks the seal. The Westone tips fit perfectly and ameliorate the ear canal pressure while keeping a good seal. But I could see how it could be totally different for someone with a different ear physiology esp. given the different shape of both tips (bulbous vs. bullet).


Tip rolling is one of the deepest rabbit holes... I have bags and bags of tips from my journeys in Wonderland.  I ended up loving the Symbio W Peel above all else, and order a dozen every year now.


----------



## Juturna

I tried the Technics EAH-AZ60 at a hifi store in town and… needless to say I’m now on the waiting list to grab them when their next shipment of them comes in (Monday or Tuesday). 

They really impressed me during the short period of time I demoed them. To my ears almost a perfect tuning for what I prefer MOST of the time. I was only going to try them to rule them out because I had placed an order for the Liberty 3 Pro’s at another store, but I have no option to try them so I think it’s going to be difficult for me to pick them over the Technics now lol.


----------



## scubaphish

Juturna said:


> I tried the Technics EAH-AZ60 at a hifi store in town and… needless to say I’m now on the waiting list to grab them when their next shipment of them comes in (Monday or Tuesday).
> 
> They really impressed me during the short period of time I demoed them. To my ears almost a perfect tuning for what I prefer MOST of the time. I was only going to try them to rule them out because I had placed an order for the Liberty 3 Pro’s at another store, but I have no option to try them so I think it’s going to be difficult for me to pick them over the Technics now lol.


I believe you’ve been looking and trying for a little while; congrats on finding something you like. It’s definitely an accomplishment in this hobby.


----------



## Ceeluh7

Juturna said:


> I tried the Technics EAH-AZ60 at a hifi store in town and… needless to say I’m now on the waiting list to grab them when their next shipment of them comes in (Monday or Tuesday).
> 
> They really impressed me during the short period of time I demoed them. To my ears almost a perfect tuning for what I prefer MOST of the time. I was only going to try them to rule them out because I had placed an order for the Liberty 3 Pro’s at another store, but I have no option to try them so I think it’s going to be difficult for me to pick them over the Technics now lol.


AZ60 is a nice set. Good sonics, look nice, large feature set... Good all rounder without a doubt. Both the AZ60 and LP3 in my opinion need significant EQ help but when I did I got both sounding top tier.... For me. I should preface, every statement I ever make is my own twisted idea of what sounds good. Others have fallen in love with the AZ60 as well as the LP3 and that is a great thing so I'm sure you will love that set, especially if you liked the demo model... Awesome man


----------



## jant71

cytoSiN said:


> That's not so odd I don't think, the 215s are like 17ohms and the 846 I think are 9?  It's all about impedance.  In theory you'd pick the Shure buds with the highest impedance to force the most power to the buds.  I want to say Solaris is like 7-10?  So I should have some good options for power if I try to combo.





erockg said:


> I figured that, yeah.  Just make sure the angle of the Solaris is similar to a Shure bud.  The Variations have to force the TW2 adapter in a different position.  Some folks may resist the hassle.





LordToneeus said:


> You'd think so, but I seem to get more power out of the SE215 setting and much less out of the 846 setting for my Westone UM Pro 30's.  I don't know, but I'm assuming everything above the SE215/AONIC 2 are much lower impedance iems and therefore require much less of a jolt.  Speaking completely out of my bung here, except that I got more volume at a lower level on the SE215 setting than on the 846 setting.



How about they test the max SPL levels and cut the 846 for the safety cause it can peak to levels that some testing board will say are above safe hearing levels for continuous listening?  




xSDMx said:


> Wait until you guys learn about filter mods...😉



I did one on my AT and I kept bringing up working on the XM4 but they are not receptive at all really.


----------



## jant71 (Jan 8, 2022)

erockg said:


> Funny, I used my Etys on a train commute for years.  They were heavenly.  I actually revisited them (the ER4s) a few years back and had Plussound make a bt cable before Ety released one.  Really loved them.  Problem now is, once you go TWS it's so hard to go backwards.  UE said they were working on a TWS adapter too.  Sorry, I digress.


As a stage head I lived with my Ety's, tried 3 times, but the smaller stage always makes me sell them on. They are monitors and monitors are not supposed to have big stages but always a smaller room than I like. The separation and imaging are good but not more out of the head or ear as I want. Again, that would make them worse/harder to use as monitors as most engineers will tell you and They present like they should for how Ety wants. A more "it's not you it's me" situation.


----------



## BooleanBones

Juturna said:


> I tried the Technics EAH-AZ60 at a hifi store in town and… needless to say I’m now on the waiting list to grab them when their next shipment of them comes in (Monday or Tuesday).
> 
> They really impressed me during the short period of time I demoed them. To my ears almost a perfect tuning for what I prefer MOST of the time. I was only going to try them to rule them out because I had placed an order for the Liberty 3 Pro’s at another store, but I have no option to try them so I think it’s going to be difficult for me to pick them over the Technics now lol.


Congrats, glad you like them!


----------



## jant71

Not so much for new TWS models at CES this year it seems. Just a few. Panny is putting out a big brother to the AZ60 with LDAC...




https://www.technics.com/us/products/headphones/eah-a800.html


----------



## BooleanBones

jant71 said:


> Not so much for new TWS models at CES this year it seems. Just a few. Panny is putting out a big brother to the AZ60 with LDAC...
> 
> https://www.technics.com/us/products/headphones/eah-a800.html


I will probably try those out. They sound nice in the marketing spill.


----------



## jant71 (Jan 8, 2022)

BooleanBones said:


> I will probably try those out. They sound nice in the marketing spill.


15 minute quick charge for 10 hours. TWS can't do that yet lol!


----------



## BooleanBones

jant71 said:


> 15 minute quick charg for 10 hours. TWS can do that yet lol!


and "50" hours charged if I recall. With run times like that, I don't mind wired charging


----------



## Ceeluh7

BooleanBones said:


> and "50" hours charged if I recall. With run times like that, I don't mind wired charging


Ya dude... Not at all, that is silly 50 freaking hours. I may have to get back into the over-ear game. Err, maybe not, they still look cool though


----------



## erockg

Just figured this might help some of us:  https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/gear_acquisition_syndrome

Oh, and, I returned the FH9 and will be trying a pair of Oriveti IEMs later today. 

Look away guys, you don't need cans.  We've already been there!


----------



## BooleanBones

Ceeluh7 said:


> Ya dude... Not at all, that is silly 50 freaking hours. I may have to get back into the over-ear game. Err, maybe not, they still look cool though


It's nice to give the ear canals a break sometimes


----------



## BooleanBones

Did anyone ever keep there Grells and enjoy them? Just curious of course.


----------



## erockg

BooleanBones said:


> Did anyone ever keep there Grells and enjoy them? Just curious of course.


I truly wanted to love them.  Sayonara.


----------



## xSDMx

erockg said:


> I truly wanted to love them.  Sayonara.


Same. I actually just got my refund from Drop on my bank statement this morning.

They checked all the boxes on paper... in practice? 🤢


----------



## erockg

xSDMx said:


> Same. I actually just got my refund from Drop on my bank statement this morning.
> 
> They checked all the boxes on paper... in practice? 🤢


Mine have been en route to their return center for almost two weeks.  They're nice, but I just have nicer these days.  I truly wanted to love them.  Agreed, something was missing.


----------



## BooleanBones

xSDMx said:


> Spent some more time with the stock Shure Silicone Olives vs. Westone Star tips. It's amazing just how unique and personal IEMs and tip rolling can be given different ear canals, etc. The Silicone Olives seal well for me, but the pressure they put on my ear canal walls becomes super uncomfortable, quickly. Going down a size breaks the seal. The Westone tips fit perfectly and ameliorate the ear canal pressure while keeping a good seal. But I could see how it could be totally different for someone with a different ear physiology esp. given the different shape of both tips (bulbous vs. bullet).


While not as uncomfortable as yours probably, I did notice some comfort issues after messing with those 5s last night for a few hours. Might explore some others today to see if that helps some.


----------



## jant71

Which Oriveti?


erockg said:


> Just figured this might help some of us:  https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/gear_acquisition_syndrome
> 
> Oh, and, I returned the FH9 and will be trying a pair of Oriveti IEMs later today.
> 
> Look away guys, you don't need cans.  We've already been there!


----------



## erockg

jant71 said:


> Which Oriveti?


The OH500.  The FH9 just didn't have the bass I wanted especially after changing to the black filter on my SE846.  Read some nice things about the Oriveti and love the resin shell.  Fingers crossed!


----------



## xSDMx

erockg said:


> Mine have been en route to their return center for almost two weeks.  They're nice, but I just have nicer these days.  I truly wanted to love them.  Agreed, something was missing.


FWIW I shipped the return back to Drop on Dec 16th. So, about three weeks end-to-end with the holidays also probably delaying shipping/processing.


----------



## erockg

xSDMx said:


> FWIW I shipped the return back to Drop on Dec 16th. So, about three weeks end-to-end with the holidays also probably delaying shipping/processing.


Pretty nuts.  Whew.  I'm the 21st so annnnnny day now.


----------



## darveniza

HaliHarry said:


> So exited. Is Fw1000t better than B&O EQ ???


I have the Japanese Victor JVC and the B&O very very different tunings. Prefer the fit and controls if the Victor. B&O had the benefit of an app. Cases are very similar


----------



## dj24

Do recent Android 11/ 12 samsung galaxy phones have LDAC under their bluetooth settings or do we have to go into developer settings to enable them?  Do they also stick?


----------



## darveniza

BooleanBones said:


> Off topic but any of you folks Prime members on Amazon Japan? Is it still a charge on global shipping or is it free like domestic? TIA


I usually just add the priority shipping as it's super cheap and basically you order things on Saturday and they arrived the following Wednesday or Thursday. Very reliable. If you do standard I see around 10-12 working days


----------



## Juturna

Ceeluh7 said:


> AZ60 is a nice set. Good sonics, look nice, large feature set... Good all rounder without a doubt. Both the AZ60 and LP3 in my opinion need significant EQ help but when I did I got both sounding top tier.... For me. I should preface, every statement I ever make is my own twisted idea of what sounds good. Others have fallen in love with the AZ60 as well as the LP3 and that is a great thing so I'm sure you will love that set, especially if you liked the demo model... Awesome man


What would you say is the end result of using them both, which did you end up liking the most? I know that I really like Soundcore's app from using their Q30 headphones, and I like just how damn customizable the sound usually tends to be with their EQ.  
But the AZ60 sounds good to my ears just on the stock setting... like maybe not perfect, but definitely something I could listen to without EQ:ing without crying about it. I also felt like they were really comfortable and fit really snug in the ear too.

The L3P's are a lot cheaper too, though, and I like color options on those ones a lot more. 


scubaphish said:


> I believe you’ve been looking and trying for a little while; congrats on finding something you like. It’s definitely an accomplishment in this hobby.


Haha I mean, the search is always ongoing, is it not? Who knows when I start feeling the itch to find something that's better again... actually scratch that, it might not even be that I end up buying something better, just something DIFFERENT. 
Might not take too long if I know myself properly.


----------



## darveniza

BooleanBones said:


> Did anyone ever keep there Grells and enjoy them? Just curious of course.


Still using them on my end. Still have issue with play and pause. But do like tuning , fit and swipe gestures. Even tough ANC is not as good as B&O EQ it works well for certain enviroments


----------



## dweaver (Jan 8, 2022)

jant71 said:


> Not so much for new TWS models at CES this year it seems. Just a few. Panny is putting out a big brother to the AZ60 with LDAC...
> 
> https://www.technics.com/us/products/headphones/eah-a800.html


These are now on my list ... The wait is going to kill me though. Sorry TWS world but I am very happy with my AZ60 and now the EAH-A800 are my next big purchase. Guess I am a Technics guy.... LOL


----------



## Toom

I have the Senn MTW2 and they sound and fit great - I have no real issue with them at all. 

Is there anything out there which i need in my ears instead? 

This is Head-fi, so of course there is always that itch asking to be scratched.


----------



## Caipirina

Juturna said:


> I tried the Technics EAH-AZ60 at a hifi store in town and… needless to say I’m now on the waiting list to grab them when their next shipment of them comes in (Monday or Tuesday).
> 
> They really impressed me during the short period of time I demoed them. To my ears almost a perfect tuning for what I prefer MOST of the time. I was only going to try them to rule them out because I had placed an order for the Liberty 3 Pro’s at another store, but I have no option to try them so I think it’s going to be difficult for me to pick them over the Technics now lol.


great .. now I have to try them too   .. i see where this is heading ...


----------



## Caipirina

Those who have / had the Beats Fit Pro .. what are your feelings now after the hype died down? 
They are supposed to be released in Japan sometime this month and since my wife liberated my APP from me, I am missing 'something like that' ... and I wonder if I just get my own pair of APP (somehow they are never on sale here) or I try the beats ... the wait for APP2 (2nd half this year) is too long


----------



## erockg

Received my Marshall Motif A.N.C. to compliment my Mode II.  I have to admit, I really love them.  They have a cool rocker edge and the sound is excellent.  Soundstage and EQ is great.  Can't customize the EQ on the Motif yet, but Mode II lets you.  For the Motif, you need to use the presets, which aren't bad.  Both buds have wireless charging, but *no volume controls *  The case on both buds have the look and feel of the old Marshall amp I used to own.  Really like it.  Battery isn't super long, but good enough for me.  Motif has fast charging.  I popped some Devialet tips on the Motif and that helped the fit.  The Mode II are tiny and fit me perfect.  Actually, they're BOTH small.  I feel like they're nicer than the Final ZE3000.


----------



## erockg

Caipirina said:


> Those who have / had the Beats Fit Pro .. what are your feelings now after the hype died down?
> They are supposed to be released in Japan sometime this month and since my wife liberated my APP from me, I am missing 'something like that' ... and I wonder if I just get my own pair of APP (somehow they are never on sale here) or I try the beats ... the wait for APP2 (2nd half this year) is too long


I really liked them.  Spatial Audio is really cool.  Few issues led me to return mine:  Fit, the wing isn't removable and it kept hurting my ear.  Also, I was having connection issues with my Apple TV.  Might not have been the buds though.  Not sure there.  So really, I only returned because of fit.  To me, they sounded sooooo much better than the APP.  I'm really looking forward to the next gen of the APP.  Hopefully, the tech gets even better.


----------



## Ceeluh7

Juturna said:


> What would you say is the end result of using them both, which did you end up liking the most? I know that I really like Soundcore's app from using their Q30 headphones, and I like just how damn customizable the sound usually tends to be with their EQ.
> But the AZ60 sounds good to my ears just on the stock setting... like maybe not perfect, but definitely something I could listen to without EQ:ing without crying about it. I also felt like they were really comfortable and fit really snug in the ear too.
> 
> The L3P's are a lot cheaper too, though, and I like color options on those ones a lot more.
> ...


For me it ended up that I returned them both. I could not get over how lean the Mids were on the Soundcore and how Tinny and tizzy the treble region is. I was successful EQ'ing that out of them but I just couldn't handle paying 160.00 for a set I had to eq so much. Like how in the hell did those ever make it off the factory floor with the tuning they had. As far as the AZ60 it was quite the same. First the volume wasn't great and there was bass damn near missing within the mix. It is odd, they had an OK sub-bass, not great but okay, but the lower mid bass was non-existent and EQ'ing them did nothing to help. I changed tips as well and nothing helped. For my Library it just didn't work and if I'm paying 240.00 I should have a complete tuning set... They didn't want to congest the mix and so they took away alot of the mid bass so not to congest and muddy everything. Also it isn't a quick bass. I enjoyed the mids/vocals and the highs rolled off at a respectable place but there was sibilance that I could not get rid of. Again... 240. Of the two I would take the AZ60, it was pretty and fit was great and has plenty of features


----------



## erockg

Ceeluh7 said:


> For me it ended up that I returned them both. I could not get over how lean the Mids were on the Soundcore and how Tinny and tizzy the treble region is. I was successful EQ'ing that out of them but I just couldn't handle paying 160.00 for a set I had to eq so much. Like how in the hell did those ever make it off the factory floor with the tuning they had. As far as the AZ60 it was quite the same. First the volume wasn't great and there was bass damn near missing within the mix. It is odd, they had an OK sub-bass, not great but okay, but the lower mid bass was non-existent and EQ'ing them did nothing to help. I changed tips as well and nothing helped. For my Library it just didn't work and if I'm paying 240.00 I should have a complete tuning set... They didn't want to congest the mix and so they took away alot of the mid bass so not to congest and muddy everything. Also it isn't a quick bass. I enjoyed the mids/vocals and the highs rolled off at a respectable place but there was sibilance that I could not get rid of. Again... 240. Of the two I would take the AZ60, it was pretty and fit was great and has plenty of features


Great minds think alike.  Totally agree with all you're saying here.  AZ60 for the win.  Had both, returned both.  There were better options out there for my ears.


----------



## LordToneeus

Caipirina said:


> Those who have / had the Beats Fit Pro .. what are your feelings now after the hype died down?
> They are supposed to be released in Japan sometime this month and since my wife liberated my APP from me, I am missing 'something like that' ... and I wonder if I just get my own pair of APP (somehow they are never on sale here) or I try the beats ... the wait for APP2 (2nd half this year) is too long


I have purchased them three times now and have decided on keeping them this final go-round. They’re just so stinking convenient and the sound is fine. I have an iPhone, iPad, and MacBook Pro, so it really is handy to have something that works seamlessly between them.  Ambient, ANC, and Siri integration are all worth it to me.


----------



## mikp

Canabuc said:


> Technics eah-az60


thanks for the tip. Too bad it doesnt also has aptx, use tws also with windows. dont know if its worth changing from mtw2 then


----------



## Juturna (Jan 8, 2022)

Ceeluh7 said:


> For me it ended up that I returned them both. I could not get over how lean the Mids were on the Soundcore and how Tinny and tizzy the treble region is. I was successful EQ'ing that out of them but I just couldn't handle paying 160.00 for a set I had to eq so much. Like how in the hell did those ever make it off the factory floor with the tuning they had. As far as the AZ60 it was quite the same. First the volume wasn't great and there was bass damn near missing within the mix. It is odd, they had an OK sub-bass, not great but okay, but the lower mid bass was non-existent and EQ'ing them did nothing to help. I changed tips as well and nothing helped. For my Library it just didn't work and if I'm paying 240.00 I should have a complete tuning set... They didn't want to congest the mix and so they took away alot of the mid bass so not to congest and muddy everything. Also it isn't a quick bass. I enjoyed the mids/vocals and the highs rolled off at a respectable place but there was sibilance that I could not get rid of. Again... 240. Of the two I would take the AZ60, it was pretty and fit was great and has plenty of features


That’s interesting, I was surprised over how the AZ60 actually had plenty of mid-bass and body, way more than my MTW2s. But we all have different ears which means different fit which will also give different experiences. I could see myself wanting some more oomph for a small subsection of my music library though.
Edit: I do agree that the bass wasn’t as fast as I would’ve liked though, 💯.

What did you end up spending your money on?

I think the L3P’s are kinda out of the running then, I have the Devialet Geminis and I honestly never pick them up for listening because I think the mids are so recessed and thin even when I EQ them to the top, and no matter what I do they sound sibilant and “tizzy” in the treble region and lack in clarity.
I only like the bass, and the soundstage is decent too. But I find them extremely overhyped and I’m wondering what I’m missing lol. The L3P’s seem to sound a bit similar to that from your description.


----------



## Ceeluh7

Juturna said:


> That’s interesting, I was surprised over how the AZ60 actually had plenty of mid-bass and body, way more than my MTW2s. But we all have different ears which means different fit which will also give different experiences. I could see myself wanting some more oomph for a small subsection of my music library though.
> Edit: I do agree that the bass wasn’t as fast as I would’ve liked though, 💯.
> 
> What did you end up spending your money on?
> ...


I ended up getting the Nura Nuratrue's.... Wow are they awesome. Though I did just return them because the tip broke off.... Odd. Honestly though they were in a different league then the AZ60 and LP3 sonically. When I get a set I truly do everything I can think of man to get the sound right, with the Nuratrue I found them wonderful in SQ dept. I also have owned the grado gt220.... Wow are those nice, I had connection issues so I had to take those back. Right now I have abt 10 tws in my rotation and none that I consider superior SQ wise as I am waiting for my return money to come in. Any questions I am happy to help or explain why I did or did not like a set


----------



## bladefd

CES 2022 was disappointing.. Nothing worth it. No Sony or Sennheiser or Samsung or Bose or CA. Perhaps if they announce anything, it will be in their own event.

They also all released couple new TWS in 2021 so perhaps I can understand them not announcing something new this quickly. CA also had to overcome the massive blunder that became the Touch - they learned their lesson to not rush-release something without thorough testing. Samsung has a bunch of TWS, some possibly redundant, on the market so they need to get through their stocks before releasing something new. I don't know anything about Bose's new TWS that came out in 2021; they are somewhat overpriced company.


----------



## Juturna (Jan 8, 2022)

Ceeluh7 said:


> I ended up getting the Nura Nuratrue's.... Wow are they awesome. Though I did just return them because the tip broke off.... Odd. Honestly though they were in a different league then the AZ60 and LP3 sonically. When I get a set I truly do everything I can think of man to get the sound right, with the Nuratrue I found them wonderful in SQ dept. I also have owned the grado gt220.... Wow are those nice, I had connection issues so I had to take those back. Right now I have abt 10 tws in my rotation and none that I consider superior SQ wise as I am waiting for my return money to come in. Any questions I am happy to help or explain why I did or did not like a set


Yeah, I’ve tried the Nuratrues in store, with very different results the two times I’ve tried them… the first time they sounded awesome and werd pretty comfortable, but the second time I couldn’t get the fit down at all on the right ear and I think the somewhat noisy store the second time could’ve made them sound less fantastic when I did the whole setup process.

I think they also seem less solid as an overall pair of TWS’s, but I’m honestly okay with that as long as the sound is amazing and the fit is good.

The AZ60’s and the Nuratrues are honestly in the top of my most-wanted earbuds right now, as well as the B&O EQ’s, found them for $270 open-box but I kinda seemed to have some fit issues with those as well when I tried them. The AZ60s just fit surprisingly well in my ears.


----------



## voicemaster

A great discovery today as I just received my USB bluetooth 5.2 dongle which can do AptX adaptive, HD and LL. I paired it up with KZ AZ09 pro which doesn't say anything about AptX adaptive (KZ advertise it AptX HD sound) even then it is already an improvement from the original AZ09 which only has SBC and AAC. So, I paired it up and it was really fast and it connected using AptX adaptive .
So now we have a $40 bluetooth earhook that not only has AptX adaptive, gaming mode, full power mode and 8 long hours of battery life and the company itself didn't even advertising that it can do AptX adaptive . The AZ09 pro is the cheapest AptX adaptive capable bluetooth earhook available on the market today.


----------



## Ceeluh7

voicemaster said:


> A great discovery today as I just received my USB bluetooth 5.2 dongle which can do AptX adaptive, HD and LL. I paired it up with KZ AZ09 pro which doesn't say anything about AptX adaptive (KZ advertise it AptX HD sound) even then it is already an improvement from the original AZ09 which only has SBC and AAC. So, I paired it up and it was really fast and it connected using AptX adaptive .
> So now we have a $40 bluetooth earhook that not only has AptX adaptive, gaming mode, full power mode and 8 long hours of battery life and the company itself didn't even advertising that it can do AptX adaptive . The AZ09 pro is the cheapest AptX adaptive capable bluetooth earhook available on the market today.


I think I saw you show this in the KZ thread.... What dongle is it man, I would like something like this?


----------



## erockg

Juturna said:


> Yeah, I’ve tried the Nuratrues in store, with very different results the two times I’ve tried them… the first time they sounded awesome and werd pretty comfortable, but the second time I couldn’t get the fit down at all on the right ear and I think the somewhat noisy store the second time could’ve made them sound less fantastic when I did the whole setup process.
> 
> I think they also seem less solid as an overall pair of TWS’s, but I’m honestly okay with that as long as the sound is amazing and the fit is good.
> 
> The AZ60’s and the Nuratrues are honestly in the top of my most-wanted earbuds right now, as well as the B&O EQ’s, found them for $270 open-box but I kinda seemed to have some fit issues with those as well when I tried them. The AZ60s just fit surprisingly well in my ears.


I loved EQs but the volume on them is low.  Beautiful buds though.  I had fit issues/pain with the Nuratrue as well, but did love the sound.  Also, felt they were cheap build quality, not that some with great sound aren't.  The Final ZE3000 feel incredibly cheap, but the sound is very good.  Sounds like you may want to at least try the AZ60s.  They're very nice, solid build.  Some on here didn't like the sibilance, like myself, but others love the sound.  ANC and Ambient is great on them and the case is so much smaller than the AZ70.  Multipairing works well too.


----------



## HaliHarry

darveniza said:


> I have the Japanese Victor JVC and the B&O very very different tunings. Prefer the fit and controls if the Victor. B&O had the benefit of an app. Cases are very similar


What differences in tunings??? Can you briefly describe it? Which one do you prefer ? Thank a lot 😃


----------



## Ceeluh7

HaliHarry said:


> What differences in tunings??? Can you briefly describe it? Which one do you prefer ? Thank a lot 😃


I'm wondering as well. I'm likely going to get the US pair on Amazon soon


----------



## voicemaster

Ceeluh7 said:


> I think I saw you show this in the KZ thread.... What dongle is it man, I would like something like this?


https://a.aliexpress.com/_mt3bUIk


----------



## scubaphish

voicemaster said:


> A great discovery today as I just received my USB bluetooth 5.2 dongle which can do AptX adaptive, HD and LL. I paired it up with KZ AZ09 pro which doesn't say anything about AptX adaptive (KZ advertise it AptX HD sound) even then it is already an improvement from the original AZ09 which only has SBC and AAC. So, I paired it up and it was really fast and it connected using AptX adaptive .
> So now we have a $40 bluetooth earhook that not only has AptX adaptive, gaming mode, full power mode and 8 long hours of battery life and the company itself didn't even advertising that it can do AptX adaptive . The AZ09 pro is the cheapest AptX adaptive capable bluetooth earhook available on the market today.


That’s really intriguing. Seems like a nice way to try out some Moondrops. Out of curiosity, which phones do you have plugged into the AZ09 pro?


----------



## voicemaster

scubaphish said:


> That’s really intriguing. Seems like a nice way to try out some Moondrops. Out of curiosity, which phones do you have plugged into the AZ09 pro?


Moondrop Kato.


----------



## erockg

voicemaster said:


> Moondrop Kato.


Did you trim the AZ09s to fit?  Or get the B Pin model?


----------



## voicemaster

erockg said:


> Did you trim the AZ09s to fit?  Or get the B Pin model?


Trim it. As of right now, the B pin model is a fairy tale.


----------



## erockg

voicemaster said:


> Trim it. As of right now, the B pin model is a fairy tale.


A fairy tale that may have come true on Amazon US  I wouldn't know if it works though. https://www.amazon.com/Bluetooth-He...ocphy=1013962&hvtargid=pla-1395439151160&th=1


----------



## voicemaster

erockg said:


> A fairy tale that may have come true on Amazon US  I wouldn't know if it works though. https://www.amazon.com/Bluetooth-He...ocphy=1013962&hvtargid=pla-1395439151160&th=1


If you notice, when you choose the B pin model, it shows the AZ09 (non pro) model.


----------



## erockg

erockg said:


> Received my Marshall Motif A.N.C. to compliment my Mode II.  I have to admit, I really love them.  They have a cool rocker edge and the sound is excellent.  Soundstage and EQ is great.  Can't customize the EQ on the Motif yet, but Mode II lets you.  For the Motif, you need to use the presets, which aren't bad.  Both buds have wireless charging, but *no volume controls *  The case on both buds have the look and feel of the old Marshall amp I used to own.  Really like it.  Battery isn't super long, but good enough for me.  Motif has fast charging.  I popped some Devialet tips on the Motif and that helped the fit.  The Mode II are tiny and fit me perfect.  Actually, they're BOTH small.  I feel like they're nicer than the Final ZE3000.


There's one stupid great thing about the Marshall buds, both versions.  When you change modes the tones are guitar riffs.  Ah... it's the little things.


----------



## erockg

voicemaster said:


> If you notice, when you choose the B pin model, it shows the AZ09 (non pro) model.


Very confusing because below the pic shows the different connector.  Lame.


----------



## voicemaster

erockg said:


> Very confusing because below the pic shows the different connector.  Lame.


You are looking at the original AZ09 not the AZ09 pro. KZ has teased a B pin model for the pro version long time ago, but if you go to any stores in AE, it will say out of stock or some stores don't even have it. The original AZ09 is garbage, while the pro model is the best bang of the buck for bluetooth earhook right now.


----------



## erockg

voicemaster said:


> You are looking at the original AZ09 not the AZ09 pro. KZ has teased a B pin model for the pro version long time ago, but if you go to any stores in AE, it will say out of stock or some stores don't even have it. The original AZ09 is garbage, while the pro model is the best bang of the buck for bluetooth earhook right now.


Ah, copy that.  I misread you had the Pro version.  How much did you trim off?  I already have the Shure and Fiio, but maybe this is a good extra pair.


----------



## voicemaster (Jan 8, 2022)

erockg said:


> Ah, copy that.  I misread you had the Pro version.  How much did you trim off?  I already have the Shure and Fiio, but maybe this is a good extra pair.


The whole sleeve that cover up the 2 pin connector basically. For only $40, it is a no brainer (unless you want to connect MMCX iem, but an adapter still work just not optimal).


----------



## erockg

voicemaster said:


> The whole sleeve that cover up the 2 pin connector basically. For only $40, it is a no brainer (unless you want to connect MMCX iem, but an adapter still work just not optimal).


Awesome thanks!  Maybe I'll give it a whirl with my Variations.


----------



## FYLegend

Unfortunately I had misplaced my Galaxy Buds2 somewhere (possibly rolled out of my pocket during my commute). Only having "find my earbuds" with active use seriously defeats the purpose of having this feature. I also noticed that when the proximity sensor is covered, such as if the bud is dropped face-down in a dark area, the sound playback location feature also doesn't work.

Now I'm back to square one with SoundPeats T2. I do welcome back a more reliable connection that doesn't cause the audio to distort, as the Buds2 struggled to maintain a high bitrate with my Note 9 (I get that this might be due to the age and older Bluetooth chip of the phone, but very disappointing to see this between two Samsung devices).

I was eyeing on the L3Pro but the 20$ coupon is gone now.

Any budget ANC out there that has a good transparency mode which works with one ear? (like TaoTronics Soundliberty 94)


----------



## Ceeluh7

voicemaster said:


> The whole sleeve that cover up the 2 pin connector basically. For only $40, it is a no brainer (unless you want to connect MMCX iem, but an adapter still work just not optimal).


Can you tell me, or someone... Does the az09 pro have volume control on the adapters?


----------



## Bobbetybob

voicemaster said:


> The whole sleeve that cover up the 2 pin connector basically. For only $40, it is a no brainer (unless you want to connect MMCX iem, but an adapter still work just not optimal).


I'm guessing it's fairly soft been as it's the same material as the flexible earhooks? I have some snips for cutting up plastic model kits, I reckon they'd work nicely. Been looking for a cheap set of earhooks to use with my Moondrop SSP and these look like they'll do they job. I have the TRN BT20 and they sound pretty decent (especially since I paid £10 for them) but they don't have a case and need a silly split micro USB cable to charge.


----------



## voicemaster

Ceeluh7 said:


> Can you tell me, or someone... Does the az09 pro have volume control on the adapters?


no volume control


----------



## voicemaster

Bobbetybob said:


> I'm guessing it's fairly soft been as it's the same material as the flexible earhooks? I have some snips for cutting up plastic model kits, I reckon they'd work nicely. Been looking for a cheap set of earhooks to use with my Moondrop SSP and these look like they'll do they job. I have the TRN BT20 and they sound pretty decent (especially since I paid £10 for them) but they don't have a case and need a silly split micro USB cable to charge.


It has a plastic sleeve inside the silicone piece but I can cut it using a regular scissor just fine. Exacto knife will work better I think.


----------



## Ceeluh7

Bobbetybob said:


> I'm guessing it's fairly soft been as it's the same material as the flexible earhooks? I have some snips for cutting up plastic model kits, I reckon they'd work nicely. Been looking for a cheap set of earhooks to use with my Moondrop SSP and these look like they'll do they job. I have the TRN BT20 and they sound pretty decent (especially since I paid £10 for them) but they don't have a case and need a silly split micro USB cable to charge.


Ya a couple people I know that have these snipped the soft rubber farely easily. I guess these have a high gain mode which is pretty nice. Less juice than the utws5 but more than the tw2 I'm guessing


----------



## erockg

Got the Oriveti OH500 not too long ago.  Much better for my taste compared to the FH9 off the bat.  They fit both the Fiio UTWS5 and Shure TW2s perfectly.  No fit issues other than the tips for me.  Wound up putting on an extra pair of Noble Fokus tips and I'm liking it.  Very pretty buds.  Wide soundstage.  Sub-bass is better than the FH9.  Let the fun begin... again.  Hopefully these stick.  Pray for me.


----------



## voicemaster

Ceeluh7 said:


> Ya a couple people I know that have these snipped the soft rubber farely easily. I guess these have a high gain mode which is pretty nice. Less juice than the utws5 but more than the tw2 I'm guessing


It is on par with UTWS5, smaller than UTWS5 while having a longer battery life than UTWS5 which is crazy. It was very good with only AptX, but with addition of AptX adaptive (which KZ didn't even mention), this AZ09 pro has become a real gem. It also has gaming mode.


----------



## dmphile

dang, you guys are tempting me to go down the rabbit hole with these BTS adapters and a wired IEM... :O


----------



## dmphile

erockg said:


> Got the Oriveti OH500 not too long ago.  Much better for my taste compared to the FH9 off the bat.  They fit both the Fiio UTWS5 and Shure TW2s perfectly.  No fit issues other than the tips for me.  Wound up putting on an extra pair of Noble Fokus tips and I'm liking it.  Very pretty buds.  Wide soundstage.  Sub-bass is better than the FH9.  Let the fun begin... again.  Hopefully these stick.  Pray for me.


I'm tempted to try this setup, but would there be another IEM that would fit the UTWS5 but a little cheaper than the OH500s?


----------



## stormwrx

The Shure TW2s sound great with the SE846, but then I made the mistake of trying the SE846 wired with this DAC, which even has a setting specific to the SE846:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/lux...n-is-available-related-info-on-post-1.949448/

The bass, detail, and soundstage on the SE846 when running wired on the Luxury & Precision W2 are on another level entirely, but I know it is not a fair comparison with running the SE846 on the TW2s. But now I am thinking about selling the TW2s and just listening to the SE846 wired, lol!


----------



## xSDMx

stormwrx said:


> The Shure TW2s sound great with the SE846, but then I made the mistake of trying the SE846 wired with this DAC, which even has a setting specific to the SE846:
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/lux...n-is-available-related-info-on-post-1.949448/
> 
> The bass, detail, and soundstage on the SE846 when running wired on the Luxury & Precision W2 are on another level entirely, but I know it is not a fair comparison with running the SE846 on the TW2s. But now I am thinking about selling the TW2s and just listening to the SE846 wired, lol!


I found the same with my ES100. But, after dealing with a tangly cable all week, the convenience of the TW2 triumphed over pure SQ for me.


----------



## erockg

dmphile said:


> I'm tempted to try this setup, but would there be another IEM that would fit the UTWS5 but a little cheaper than the OH500s?


Tons of options.  Depending on whether you get a 2 pin or MMCX adapter, many great options for less and which ones depends on what you want to spend and what type of signature you prefer.


----------



## Tommy C

stormwrx said:


> The Shure TW2s sound great with the SE846, but then I made the mistake of trying the SE846 wired with this DAC, which even has a setting specific to the SE846:
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/lux...n-is-available-related-info-on-post-1.949448/
> 
> The bass, detail, and soundstage on the SE846 when running wired on the Luxury & Precision W2 are on another level entirely, but I know it is not a fair comparison with running the SE846 on the TW2s. But now I am thinking about selling the TW2s and just listening to the SE846 wired, lol!


Did you change the settings in the Shure app to SE846? There are some differences depends on which Shure IEM you choose to pair it with.


----------



## stormwrx

Tommy C said:


> Did you change the settings in the Shure app to SE846? There are some differences depends on which Shure IEM you choose to pair it with.


Yup, tried that. I enjoyed the Shure TW2 + SE846 combo better than any of my other TWS buds (though not a fair comparison when you factor in price), but connecting the SE846 to a good wired source made a night and day difference to me. I wonder how the SE846 would sound on the Fiio UTWS5, which apparently have more power?


----------



## dmphile (Jan 8, 2022)

erockg said:


> Tons of options.  Depending on whether you get a 2 pin or MMCX adapter, many great options for less and which ones depends on what you want to spend and what type of signature you prefer.


I do like the sound of the B&O EQs, although I have not heard or spent alot money on high fidelity IEMs before and the best thing I have now is a AMP/DAC stack with HD 560s. That said, I do like sub bass performance, lush mid range and wide soundstage with good layering, separation and imaging. I'd like to stay under 500 CAD if possible


----------



## Ceeluh7

dmphile said:


> I'm tempted to try this setup, but would there be another IEM that would fit the UTWS5 but a little cheaper than the OH500s?


Boy is there so many options. Honestly there is so many budget sets that at times perform better than the more expensive sets. Go down the rabbit hole and you'll discover hundreds of iems that fit any criteria for sound sig from ultra budget to very expensive. Truthfully I have ultra budget sets that out perform some of my pricier iems.


----------



## erockg

dmphile said:


> I do like the sound of the B&O EQs, although I have not heard or spent alot money on high fidelity IEMs before and the best thing I have now is a AMP/DAC stack with HD 560s. That said, I do like sub bass performance, lush mid range and wide soundstage with good layering, separation and imaging. I'd like to stay under 500 CAD if possible


Here's a starting point.  Don't believe all his rankings, you really have to research others as well to get a good feel.  https://crinacle.com/rankings/iems/

I usually start there, then see what others think as well, including this forum by searching like an obsessed madman.  At the end of the day, only you can be the judge, your ears, you know?


----------



## TK33

stormwrx said:


> The Shure TW2s sound great with the SE846, but then I made the mistake of trying the SE846 wired with this DAC, which even has a setting specific to the SE846:
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/lux...n-is-available-related-info-on-post-1.949448/
> 
> The bass, detail, and soundstage on the SE846 when running wired on the Luxury & Precision W2 are on another level entirely, but I know it is not a fair comparison with running the SE846 on the TW2s. But now I am thinking about selling the TW2s and just listening to the SE846 wired, lol!


Funny you say this.  Since my TW2s are stuck in my office due to COVID shutdowns, I have been using my SE846 in a semi-wireless setup with my Qudelix 5K as my late night listening set up and have been pretty happy (listening to then now). I was debating getting a second TW2 since I have no idea when I will be back in but decided I don't miss them that much (yet) and I like the flexibility of using the SE846 with my Qudelix 5K or my RME ADI-2 in a fully wired setup.  Always have other TWS though for when I prefer to have no wires. Will see how long this lasts.


----------



## Caipirina

erockg said:


> Just figured this might help some of us:  https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/gear_acquisition_syndrome



Exactly that! I have GAS! Lots of it!


----------



## darveniza

HaliHarry said:


> What differences in tunings??? Can you briefly describe it? Which one do you prefer ? Thank a lot 😃


JVC is a bit darker with EQ having larger soundstage , I would say plays well with EDM, Jazz and Classical for example. I think the frequencies for female vocalist are better with EQ. 

Have seen this difference in the past with some Japanese versions like the original UM Nest or the FitEar


----------



## scubaphish (Jan 9, 2022)

dmphile said:


> I do like the sound of the B&O EQs, although I have not heard or spent alot money on high fidelity IEMs before and the best thing I have now is a AMP/DAC stack with HD 560s. That said, I do like sub bass performance, lush mid range and wide soundstage with good layering, separation and imaging. I'd like to stay under 500 CAD if possible


Just sayin, not sure how shipping works from Amazon US to Canada, but they have an used-like new ORIVETI OH500 for $246. Put that with the FIIO hooks and you might be in your 500 CAD range.

Edit: that said, a lot of the brand names I’ve been hearing of for quality IEM are on this list. 
https://www.headfonia.com/best-universal-iem/


----------



## guitarizt

TK33 said:


> Funny you say this.  Since my TW2s are stuck in my office due to COVID shutdowns, I have been using my SE846 in a semi-wireless setup with my Qudelix 5K as my late night listening set up and have been pretty happy (listening to then now). I was debating getting a second TW2 since I have no idea when I will be back in but decided I don't miss them that much (yet) and I like the flexibility of using the SE846 with my Qudelix 5K or my RME ADI-2 in a fully wired setup.  Always have other TWS though for when I prefer to have no wires. Will see how long this lasts.


Yeah, I'm curious how the timeless will sound with the btr5 when I get it with balanced cable. Both bt and plugged into pc. Hopefully bt is fine, and I'll prob just use them with bt at home. The galaxy pros are doing it for me out and about, and I've been meaning to get to the lives. I just have barely used them with the pros and timeless being so new still.


----------



## myromeo

I’m looking to get my sister in law some TWS IEM’s for her birthday, for casual listening on her commute. Source will be iPhone and genre pop music. She will appreciate sound quality over brand name so looking at the chi fi options. I think she will enjoy a U or V shaped sound signature, clear mids but with plenty bass. Comfort and a secure fit are very important. I’m a fan of KZ but never heard their TWS offerings. For a low budget, say under £40, what would you recommend? Currently looking at the KZ SK10.


----------



## Tommy C

myromeo said:


> I’m looking to get my sister in law some TWS IEM’s for her birthday, for casual listening on her commute. Source will be iPhone and genre pop music. She will appreciate sound quality over brand name so looking at the chi fi options. I think she will enjoy a U or V shaped sound signature, clear mids but with plenty bass. Comfort and a secure fit are very important. I’m a fan of KZ but never heard their TWS offerings. For a low budget, say under £40, what would you recommend? Currently looking at the KZ SK10.


You may wanna check out 1More or Jabra. They have budget friendly TWS and they sound good. I won’t go the ChiFi route as more often than not the user experience is pretty bad. Yes, you can find some good options like Fiil but in general it a very hit and miss game.


----------



## Bobbetybob (Jan 9, 2022)

myromeo said:


> I’m looking to get my sister in law some TWS IEM’s for her birthday, for casual listening on her commute. Source will be iPhone and genre pop music. She will appreciate sound quality over brand name so looking at the chi fi options. I think she will enjoy a U or V shaped sound signature, clear mids but with plenty bass. Comfort and a secure fit are very important. I’m a fan of KZ but never heard their TWS offerings. For a low budget, say under £40, what would you recommend? Currently looking at the KZ SK10.


Sounds like something like the Earfun Free Pro or Earfun Free Pro 2 would be worth checking out. They're pretty bass heavy, they're both very comfortable and secure, have good battery life and some extra features like very basic ANC and passthrough modes. You can pick up the original model for £40 at the moment on Amazon, the 2 is £50.


----------



## Ceeluh7

myromeo said:


> I’m looking to get my sister in law some TWS IEM’s for her birthday, for casual listening on her commute. Source will be iPhone and genre pop music. She will appreciate sound quality over brand name so looking at the chi fi options. I think she will enjoy a U or V shaped sound signature, clear mids but with plenty bass. Comfort and a secure fit are very important. I’m a fan of KZ but never heard their TWS offerings. For a low budget, say under £40, what would you recommend? Currently looking at the KZ SK10.


The option I tell everyone, because I have owned it and was impressed sonically was the Edifier Tws1 Pro. It has aptx adaptive, aac, 12 hrs battery and sounds fantastic. Not much else in features, it is cut & dry music maker and does well. If you can bump up 10ndollars then I wouldn't hesitate at getting the Lypertek Soundfree s20... It easily ranks in my top 5 under 100 for its audio and it costs 49 US


----------



## Canabuc

Juturna said:


> I tried the Technics EAH-AZ60 at a hifi store in town and… needless to say I’m now on the waiting list to grab them when their next shipment of them comes in (Monday or Tuesday).
> 
> They really impressed me during the short period of time I demoed them. To my ears almost a perfect tuning for what I prefer MOST of the time. I was only going to try them to rule them out because I had placed an order for the Liberty 3 Pro’s at another store, but I have no option to try them so I think it’s going to be difficult for me to pick them over the Technics now lol.



They are great sounding ear buds. Love the fit and full functionality from the bus them selves.
ANC and multipoint are great too.

Feel this thread had been going sideways lately mostly taking about adapters to use with IEM.

As for TWS earbuds, I really think these have the best combo of sound and features that no other buds can quite match.
Sure Sony might be as good or to some better at should but then you sacrifice full control and multipoint.
Both of those are so much more important than QI charging.


----------



## Canabuc

dj24 said:


> Do recent Android 11/ 12 samsung galaxy phones have LDAC under their bluetooth settings or do we have to go into developer settings to enable them?  Do they also stick?


My Galaxy note 20 ultra has it on 11.
When connected to the Technics , in Bluetooth settings go to the connection and three is an LDAC toggle.
I think developer mode just lets you manually choose a higher quality setting whereas the stock setting is best effort adaptive.


----------



## Canabuc

Juturna said:


> What would you say is the end result of using them both, which did you end up liking the most? I know that I really like Soundcore's app from using their Q30 headphones, and I like just how damn customizable the sound usually tends to be with their EQ.
> But the AZ60 sounds good to my ears just on the stock setting... like maybe not perfect, but definitely something I could listen to without EQ:ing without crying about it. I also felt like they were really comfortable and fit really snug in the ear too.
> 
> The L3P's are a lot cheaper too, though, and I like color options on those ones a lot more.
> ...



In Canada I got my Technics on sale and were same price as L3P


----------



## dmphile

erockg said:


> Here's a starting point.  Don't believe all his rankings, you really have to research others as well to get a good feel.  https://crinacle.com/rankings/iems/
> 
> I usually start there, then see what others think as well, including this forum by searching like an obsessed madman.  At the end of the day, only you can be the judge, your ears, you know?


What are ppl's thoughts on UTWS5 paired with the 7hz timeless? That combo seems to pique my interest given the value to performance and it seems from reviews the timeless have what I may be looking for in a well-rounded IEM. Any thoughts to compare vs the B&O EQ's?


----------



## Canabuc

Toom said:


> I have the Senn MTW2 and they sound and fit great - I have no real issue with them at all.
> 
> Is there anything out there which i need in my ears instead?
> 
> This is Head-fi, so of course there is always that itch asking to be scratched.



Had those and returned them.
ANC was not very good. Call quality was also not great.
Volume not loud enough and found they sounded great for some genres but terrible for others.
Az60 to me are better in every possible way. And we're 150$usd  less a the time


----------



## Cornilius

Tommy C said:


> You may wanna check out 1More or Jabra. They have budget friendly TWS and they sound good. I won’t go the ChiFi route as more often than not the user experience is pretty bad. Yes, you can find some good options like Fiil but in general it a very hit and miss game.



As a recent 1more comfobuds pro owner. The call & ANC functions are very nice, fully featured and consumer friendly. 

They are comfortable, but fall out easily, they don't sit in the ears, though they look like they should. I wouldn't wear them walking or bending down frequently. 

Music sound quality isn't what *I* would call good. Better than your old freebies, or a $40 skullcandy. But abysmal compared to my 6 year old $200 wired IEMs. Too much (weird) bass presence. A bit of sibilence, and those mid vocals just get lost. I tried one of my favorite albums (catch without arms by dredg) and on most songs, Gavins voice was just.... Quiet. What a shame 

I'm going to keep them, but I needed good phone call & podcast wireless buds. These are great for that.


----------



## Canabuc

Juturna said:


> That’s interesting, I was surprised over how the AZ60 actually had plenty of mid-bass and body, way more than my MTW2s. But we all have different ears which means different fit which will also give different experiences. I could see myself wanting some more oomph for a small subsection of my music library though.
> Edit: I do agree that the bass wasn’t as fast as I would’ve liked though, 💯.
> 
> What did you end up spending your money on?
> ...



Interesting comments about the bass. One thing I found with the techniques that was very interesting is that the way they fit in the ear almost any one of the ear tips seem to give me a secure fit.

Whoever only when I used a tip that was larger than I thought I needed did suddenly the music sound Fuller and the base and low end get much richer. I think anybody who feels that the base is lacking may not have used the right size tip. The sub base is actually quite good. Yes the mid bass is not as prominent as say the Liberty to pros or some of the other bass heavy buds, but their is enough and it is clean with good texture. It doesn't muddy the mids or sound bloated.


----------



## BooleanBones

Canabuc said:


> Interesting comments about the bass. One thing I found with the techniques that was very interesting is that the way they fit in the ear almost any one of the ear tips seem to give me a secure fit.
> 
> Whoever only when I used a tip that was larger than I thought I needed did suddenly the music sound Fuller and the base and low end get much richer. I think anybody who feels that the base is lacking may not have used the right size tip. The sub base is actually quite good. Yes the mid bass is not as prominent as say the Liberty to pros or some of the other bass heavy buds, but their is enough and it is clean with good texture. It doesn't muddy the mids or sound bloated.


Spot on. Tips on the AZs will definitely change you listening experience.


----------



## Canabuc

bladefd said:


> CES 2022 was disappointing.. Nothing worth it. No Sony or Sennheiser or Samsung or Bose or CA. Perhaps if they announce anything, it will be in their own event.
> 
> They also all released couple new TWS in 2021 so perhaps I can understand them not announcing something new this quickly. CA also had to overcome the massive blunder that became the Touch - they learned their lesson to not rush-release something without thorough testing. Samsung has a bunch of TWS, some possibly redundant, on the market so they need to get through their stocks before releasing something new. I don't know anything about Bose's new TWS that came out in 2021; they are somewhat overpriced company.



My feeling is they are waiting for Android 13 when the newer Bluetooth technology is out and can be used.
Don't think we will see much until the fall at the earliest.


----------



## Canabuc

erockg said:


> A fairy tale that may have come true on Amazon US  I wouldn't know if it works though. https://www.amazon.com/Bluetooth-He...ocphy=1013962&hvtargid=pla-1395439151160&th=1


Those are not the pro.


----------



## erockg

Canabuc said:


> Those are not the pro.


I misread.  He corrected me a few pages back!  . I picked up the pro and added a 3 year warranty for $5.  Worth a shot.


----------



## erockg (Jan 9, 2022)

dmphile said:


> What are ppl's thoughts on UTWS5 paired with the 7hz timeless? That combo seems to pique my interest given the value to performance and it seems from reviews the timeless have what I may be looking for in a well-rounded IEM. Any thoughts to compare vs the B&O EQ's?


Few folks on here like them but I returned them because I didn’t like the fit and the sound. But you might like them. They seem to be getting great reviews everywhere.  You could also try the Moondrop Aria or Starfield. They take a two pin connector but a lot of people love them. I had the Starfield and they are pretty damn good for the price.

The B&O EQ are wonderful and one of my favorite tws. That said, the sound is low on them and TWS won’t sound anything like IEMs unless you get something like the Noble Fokus. Those are probably the best sounding in my opinion right now.


----------



## Ceeluh7

dmphile said:


> What are ppl's thoughts on UTWS5 paired with the 7hz timeless? That combo seems to pique my interest given the value to performance and it seems from reviews the timeless have what I may be looking for in a well-rounded IEM. Any thoughts to compare vs the B&O EQ's?


I know a dude in a Facebook group who paired the utws5 with the timeless and he loves it... The only problem would be power output but the utws5 has plenty for the 7hz. The dac synergizes with it good as well... From what I hear.


----------



## C_Lindbergh

I just ordeded the  Technics AZ60, they seem to tick all my non SQ-related boxes expect QI-charging   Hopefully I'll keep them until we see more APTX lossless TWS in the near future


----------



## voicemaster

dmphile said:


> What are ppl's thoughts on UTWS5 paired with the 7hz timeless? That combo seems to pique my interest given the value to performance and it seems from reviews the timeless have what I may be looking for in a well-rounded IEM. Any thoughts to compare vs the B&O EQ's?


Awesometacular!!


----------



## C_Lindbergh

Can we make separate threads for TWS adapters/IEMS and actual TWS earbuds?

This prearticular thread is becoming extremely long as well.


----------



## Ceeluh7

So I have the az09 pro coming tomorrow, very curious about them. I think I may pair a more sensitive iem with them... Nothing too expensive, maybe the Tfz No3. I heard the inboard dac of the az09 pro is neutral warm and so that seems as though it'd be a decent pairing. I may even throw the Blon 03 on it, go real cheap. Anyways, I'm glad KZ is offering something like this and there actually is rave reviews out there with the only drawback being.... You have to mod the connectors to adapt to most two pin iems.


----------



## dmphile

scubaphish said:


> Just sayin, not sure how shipping works from Amazon US to Canada, but they have an used-like new ORIVETI OH500 for $246. Put that with the FIIO hooks and you might be in your 500 CAD range.
> 
> Edit: that said, a lot of the brand names I’ve been hearing of for quality IEM are on this list.
> https://www.headfonia.com/best-universal-iem/


Thanks, I'll take a look!


----------



## Ceeluh7

C_Lindbergh said:


> Can we make separate threads for TWS adapters/IEMS and actual TWS earbuds?
> 
> This prearticular thread is becoming extremely long as well.


Start one up... This thread to me is basically wireless it seems. This seems to happen when like minded people start a journey together and kind of experience things together. It naturally went the way of iems and adapters. However everyone is just as open to tws and I can see that that will always be the case here.


----------



## erockg

C_Lindbergh said:


> Can we make separate threads for TWS adapters/IEMS and actual TWS earbuds?
> 
> This prearticular thread is becoming extremely long as well.





Ceeluh7 said:


> Start one up... This thread to me is basically wireless it seems. This seems to happen when like minded people start a journey together and kind of experience things together. It naturally went the way of iems and adapters. However everyone is just as open to tws and I can see that that will always be the case here.


Agreed.  I thought this all too, but there are so many folks that come here, not sure it's worth it now.  Maybe just re-title the subject line.


----------



## dmphile

This is the "go-to" thread IMO


----------



## dmphile

scubaphish said:


> Just sayin, not sure how shipping works from Amazon US to Canada, but they have an used-like new ORIVETI OH500 for $246. Put that with the FIIO hooks and you might be in your 500 CAD range.
> 
> Edit: that said, a lot of the brand names I’ve been hearing of for quality IEM are on this list.
> https://www.headfonia.com/best-universal-iem/


Darn, the used-like new ones aren't available to ship to Canada. :/


----------



## cresny

erockg said:


> Agreed.  I thought this all too, but there are so many folks that come here, not sure it's worth it now.  Maybe just re-title the subject line.


Or maybe just come to a consensus of what TWS means to us.  These earhook adapters do seem to be TWS buds growing back wires yearning for their roots, like potatoes left out too long.  But they do fit the same profile and challenges of wireless transmission of all TWS,  and I expect we will soon see the same benefits, e.g. ANC.  Meanwhile "traditional"  TWS  simply cannot yet pack all the features we desire into the small form factor we want  without us complaining about battery life, fit,  poor microphone quality, etc.  Personally, I agree it's all part of the same journey so let there be this mega thread to mark it's progress untill we finally get "there" with brain waves, and no physically discernible  accoutrements remain!


----------



## BooleanBones

Anyone in FOG (Fokus Owners Group) get a infrequent noisy hiccup in either bud? Once every blue moon I have been getting a little blurp in the right side. Just curious before I ping Noble.


----------



## erockg

scubaphish said:


> Just sayin, not sure how shipping works from Amazon US to Canada, but they have an used-like new ORIVETI OH500 for $246. Put that with the FIIO hooks and you might be in your 500 CAD range.
> 
> Edit: that said, a lot of the brand names I’ve been hearing of for quality IEM are on this list.
> https://www.headfonia.com/best-universal-iem/


Wow.  Maybe I should return and get that used pair.  Lately I'm not one to buy used buds.  But you have me thinking.  Hmm.  Listened to the ORIVETI H500s all night last night.  Music and shows while the gang was asleep.  Slightly warm, good sub-bass, nice soundstage.  Paired them with both the UTWS5 and the TWS flawlessly.  Fiio adapter pumps more power into them.  I feel like they're much more immersive than the Fiio FH9 by far for me maybe even more than the Variations I have.  Definitely a more open soundstage than the SE846.


----------



## dmphile

erockg said:


> Few folks on here like them but I returned them because I didn’t like the fit and the sound. But you might like them. They seem to be getting great reviews everywhere.  You could also try the Moondrop Aria or Starfield. They take a two pin connector but a lot of people love them. I had the Starfield and they are pretty damn good for the price.
> 
> The B&O EQ are wonderful and one of my favorite tws. That said, the sound is low on them and TWS won’t sound anything like IEMs unless you get something like the Noble Fokus. Those are probably the best sounding in my opinion right now.


What did u like about the aria/starfields if you had to describe the sound?


----------



## erockg

cresny said:


> Or maybe just come to a consensus of what TWS means to us.  These earhook adapters do seem to be TWS buds growing back wires yearning for their roots, like potatoes left out too long.  But they do fit the same profile and challenges of wireless transmission of all TWS,  and I expect we will soon see the same benefits, e.g. ANC.  Meanwhile "traditional"  TWS  simply cannot yet pack all the features we desire into the small form factor we want  without us complaining about battery life, fit,  poor microphone quality, etc.  Personally, I agree it's all part of the same journey so let there be this mega thread to mark it's progress untill we finally get "there" with brain waves, and no physically discernible  accoutrements remain!


Totally with you.  Honestly, I scour this thread and I love it.  Love the little search bar up top where I can just type what I want and investigate.  I agree, and hope, that all these TWS start competing for that IEM TWS sound.  It's going to make it much more fun.


----------



## voicemaster

Ceeluh7 said:


> I know a dude in a Facebook group who paired the utws5 with the timeless and he loves it... The only problem would be power output but the utws5 has plenty for the 7hz. The dac synergizes with it good as well... From what I hear.


I paired my UTWS5 with Timeless and it is a very good match.


----------



## Toom (Jan 9, 2022)

Canabuc said:


> Had those and returned them.
> ANC was not very good. Call quality was also not great.
> Volume not loud enough and found they sounded great for some genres but terrible for others.
> Az60 to me are better in every possible way. And we're 150$usd  less a the time


I dont use ANC or make calls. Volume seems fine to me. 

Will check out the AZ60s though.


----------



## erockg

dmphile said:


> What did u like about the aria/starfields if you had to describe the sound?


I only had the Starfield.  It's been a while but I remember they had a nice soundstage and I liked the bass response.  I liked them so much I went for a more expensive Moondrip IEM, but once I did that, even though I have my eyes on the Moondrop Kato now, I keep gravitating to hybrid buds -- balanced armatures with dynamic drivers.  I just love the sound more.  I'll leave the DDs to my TWS buds.  That said, the Noble Fokus (and a few others) are some of the first buds to incorporate a true IEM structure in a TWS bud.  It's all exciting and fun.  So, if you're starting out, dip your toes in with something less expensive and see if you like it before you go all in.


----------



## erockg

BooleanBones said:


> Anyone in FOG (Fokus Owners Group) get a infrequent noisy hiccup in either bud? Once every blue moon I have been getting a little blurp in the right side. Just curious before I ping Noble.


What does a blurp sound like?  Every now and then I get a bluetooth hiccup, but usually if I'm laying down with my arm in the way.  Shouldn't happen, but it does.  Maybe try a reset?  I'm sure you did.


----------



## dmphile

erockg said:


> I only had the Starfield.  It's been a while but I remember they had a nice soundstage and I liked the bass response.  I liked them so much I went for a more expensive Moondrip IEM, but once I did that, even though I have my eyes on the Moondrop Kato now, I keep gravitating to hybrid buds -- balanced armatures with dynamic drivers.  I just love the sound more.  I'll leave the DDs to my TWS buds.  That said, the Noble Fokus (and a few others) are some of the first buds to incorporate a true IEM structure in a TWS bud.  It's all exciting and fun.  So, if you're starting out, dip your toes in with something less expensive and see if you like it before you go all in.


Cool thanks for the advice!


----------



## BooleanBones

erockg said:


> What does a blurp sound like?  Every now and then I get a bluetooth hiccup, but usually if I'm laying down with my arm in the way.  Shouldn't happen, but it does.  Maybe try a reset?  I'm sure you did.


That sounds exactly like mine. Cool, just making sure that it's not a one off.  Thanks


----------



## erockg

BooleanBones said:


> That sounds exactly like mine. Cool, just making sure that it's not a one off.  Thanks


It's annoying for sure, but the bt hiccup doesn't happen often here.  Maybe hit Jim if you think you have to.  He's responsive.  FOG owners unite.  New thread?


----------



## erockg

dmphile said:


> Cool thanks for the advice!


Happy to help, not that it will


----------



## BooleanBones

erockg said:


> It's annoying for sure, but the bt hiccup doesn't happen often here.  Maybe hit Jim if you think you have to.  He's responsive.  FOG owners unite.  New thread?


Yeah, for sure. Very rare here too which is why I haven’t pinged them. I may drop them a note to see what they say.


----------



## scubaphish

erockg said:


> I only had the Starfield.  It's been a while but I remember they had a nice soundstage and I liked the bass response.  I liked them so much I went for a more expensive Moondrip IEM, but once I did that, even though I have my eyes on the Moondrop Kato now, I keep gravitating to hybrid buds -- balanced armatures with dynamic drivers.  I just love the sound more.  I'll leave the DDs to my TWS buds.  That said, the Noble Fokus (and a few others) are some of the first buds to incorporate a true IEM structure in a TWS bud.  It's all exciting and fun.  So, if you're starting out, dip your toes in with something less expensive and see if you like it before you go all in.


I’ve been lurking for a hybrid. In fact, I was psyched to try the PI7 for that reason…from their website “Dual Hybrid Drive units with individual amplifiers”. That should have a beautiful range of sound. And I know a number of people like it. Personally I found the highs oddly veiled considering they have their own driver and amp. 
Like you said, fun journey…down the 
🕳🐇


----------



## erockg

scubaphish said:


> I’ve been lurking for a hybrid. In fact, I was psyched to try the PI7 for that reason…from their website “Dual Hybrid Drive units with individual amplifiers”. That should have a beautiful range of sound. And I know a number of people like it. Personally I found the highs oddly veiled considering they have their own driver and amp.
> Like you said, fun journey…down the
> 🕳🐇


I agree with you on the PI7.  Funny thing is, I waiting and stalked the FCC site waiting for them.  I didn't like the highs at all and the app was just bad.  Maybe the next gen?


----------



## scubaphish

scubaphish said:


> I’ve been lurking for a hybrid. In fact, I was psyched to try the PI7 for that reason…from their website “Dual Hybrid Drive units with individual amplifiers”. That should have a beautiful range of sound. And I know a number of people like it. Personally I found the highs oddly veiled considering they have their own driver and amp.
> Like you said, fun journey…down the
> 🕳🐇


That was kind of a half assed comment. A more complete thought would be closer to: 
To your point, yes, TWS are bringing over tech from wired, like hybrid and it’s great.  However, here’s an example where they tried hybrid drivers and it kind of fell flat, in my opinion.


----------



## erockg

scubaphish said:


> That was kind of a half assed comment. A more complete thought would be closer to:
> To your point, yes, TWS are bringing over tech from wired, like hybrid and it’s great.  However, here’s an example where they tried hybrid drivers and it kind of fell flat, in my opinion.


I assure you, I wasn't over here analyzing it   You had me at hello.


----------



## Tommy C

Cornilius said:


> As a recent 1more comfobuds pro owner. The call & ANC functions are very nice, fully featured and consumer friendly.
> 
> They are comfortable, but fall out easily, they don't sit in the ears, though they look like they should. I wouldn't wear them walking or bending down frequently.
> 
> ...


I also have the Comfobuds Pro, in Aurora Blue which has the  EQ presets. I like the Acoustic 1 presets the most.
My experience is a bit different than yours. I'm able to get a good seal and they fit great but shallow and I'm able to exercise or jog with them. 
I find the sound quality very good. Nice lush mids, punchy bass and highs that don't pierce the ears.
Comparing them to $200 isn't entirely fair IMO. I have them here with the Fiil T1XS, Sennheiser CX 400BT and the Shure TW2 with the SE215 Special Edition. 
For sound quality I would place them above the Fill T1XS and a notch or two below the Sennheiser CX 400BT and the Shure but all in all I like them a lot and they have nice balanced sound with nice bass and aren't V shape like many TWS. 
Bought them for $65 and for this price they are superb bang for the buck.
Have you tried different tips to see if you're able to get better seal?


----------



## dweaver

FYLegend said:


> Unfortunately I had misplaced my Galaxy Buds2 somewhere (possibly rolled out of my pocket during my commute). Only having "find my earbuds" with active use seriously defeats the purpose of having this feature. I also noticed that when the proximity sensor is covered, such as if the bud is dropped face-down in a dark area, the sound playback location feature also doesn't work.


Not sure if the Galaxy Buds Pro works differently or not. But I have lost 1 or both buds twice and both times I was able to go into the wear app and it showed me exactly where the bud(s) was located using maps. In both cases I was able to find my lost buds. 



C_Lindbergh said:


> I just ordeded the  Technics AZ60, they seem to tick all my non SQ-related boxes expect QI-charging   Hopefully I'll keep them until we see more APTX lossless TWS in the near future


Hope you like the AZ60 I really enjoy my pair and it is nice to have almost every feature in them. I wish they had the auto stop sensor and Wireless charging. But at least every control is possible from the TWS. Note some setting need to be turned on in the app to get the fullest control.


----------



## LordToneeus

myromeo said:


> I’m looking to get my sister in law some TWS IEM’s for her birthday, for casual listening on her commute. Source will be iPhone and genre pop music. She will appreciate sound quality over brand name so looking at the chi fi options. I think she will enjoy a U or V shaped sound signature, clear mids but with plenty bass. Comfort and a secure fit are very important. I’m a fan of KZ but never heard their TWS offerings. For a low budget, say under £40, what would you recommend? Currently looking at the KZ SK10.


I think she would be delighted with the Earfun Free Pro 2 or the Fiil T2 Pro.


----------



## erockg (Jan 9, 2022)

The one on the left is $10 cheaper and wow, tiny.  MMCX to 2 Pin.  Sadly, Amazon just delivered only one in the package.  Exchanging it.  Black is OOS not, so going with clear. https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B09NN97X6H/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&th=1


----------



## Ceeluh7

erockg said:


> The one on the left is $10 cheaper and wow, tiny.  MMCX to 2 Pin.  Sadly, Amazon just delivered only one in the package.  Exchanging it.


Ya I have a few sets each of the one on the left... They are perfect man, helping me out and giving a solution on a number of occasions. I think they were $25 per pair... I think.


----------



## jant71

Not TWS but... https://www.amazon.com/Shokz-OpenRun-Pro-Conduction-Built/dp/B09BVXT8TJ?ref_=ast_sto_dp
They have made the claim before about improving the SQ and Bass amount. Have they done it for real this time or not quite??


----------



## erockg

Ceeluh7 said:


> Ya I have a few sets each of the one on the left... They are perfect man, helping me out and giving a solution on a number of occasions. I think they were $25 per pair... I think.


Good to know they work.  I'll have a replacement on Tuesday.  They were cheaper than the OEAudio version and smaller.  I'll take it!


----------



## erockg

jant71 said:


> Not TWS but... https://www.amazon.com/Shokz-OpenRun-Pro-Conduction-Built/dp/B09BVXT8TJ?ref_=ast_sto_dp
> They have made the claim before about improving the SQ and Bass amount. Have they done it for real this time or not quite??


I'm not sure they really can.  I had the Aftershokz swimming version over the summer.  Fun and nice to have in the pool, but ya know, still can't compare.  I couldn't find a reputable waterproof tws for the pool so went with them.  If only the Bragi Dash Pro still existed.  They were also for swimming, had that local storage and NFMI for bud to bud connection.


----------



## chinmie

erockg said:


> I'm not sure they really can.  I had the Aftershokz swimming version over the summer.  Fun and nice to have in the pool, but ya know, still can't compare.  I couldn't find a reputable waterproof tws for the pool so went with them.  If only the Bragi Dash Pro still existed.  They were also for swimming, had that local storage and NFMI for bud to bud connection.



i have an old Sony WS410 MP3 earphones that i use often for swimming. it's not bluetooth capable, but for offline file music only, though Sony does have a bluetooth capable one which is WS620

one thing for sure, listening to music underwater is surprisingly very relaxing, and something that i encourage people to experience at least once in their life


----------



## erockg

chinmie said:


> i have an old Sony WS410 MP3 earphones that i use often for swimming. it's not bluetooth capable, but for offline file music only, though Sony does have a bluetooth capable one which is WS620
> 
> one thing for sure, listening to music underwater is surprisingly very relaxing, and something that i encourage people to experience at least once in their life


I tried finding the newer model of that over the summer and it was out of stock everywhere. Looks like they have started to come into stock. Definitely want to try them out for the pool! I like the bone conductive stuff but I didn’t feel the sound was all that and worth it.


----------



## cytoSiN

erockg said:


> What does a blurp sound like?  Every now and then I get a bluetooth hiccup, but usually if I'm laying down with my arm in the way.  Shouldn't happen, but it does.  Maybe try a reset?  I'm sure you did.


Yeah I hate that the human body blocks BT like that.  My watch disconnects from my phone sometimes when I cross my arms sometimes...amazing the little things designers just didn't foresee/overcome.


----------



## dmphile (Jan 9, 2022)

erockg said:


> Happy to help, not that it will


Did some additional research and I pulled the trigger on UTWS5 and 7Hz Timeless. It was between the Timeless and the Kato which are around the same price point. Down down down the rabbit hole I go....

Now I'm wondering if this will be enough for me to return the B&O EQ's lol.. I have until the end of this month to return them.


----------



## Ceeluh7

dmphile said:


> Did some additional research and I pulled the trigger on UTWS5 and 7Hz Timeless. It was between the Timeless and the Kato which are around the same price point. Down down down the rabbit hole I go....
> 
> Now I'm wondering if this will be enough for me to return the B&O EQ's lol.. I have until the end of this month to return them.


That is a great set-up. The sonic ability of the two paired together looks as though it'll be a hit man. Utws5 should have plenty to open em up


----------



## dmphile

Ceeluh7 said:


> That is a great set-up. The sonic ability of the two paired together looks as though it'll be a hit man. Utws5 should have plenty to open em up


Thanks, looking forward to trying them out! The only thing I'm a little concerned about is that I've read that the vocals are a little more recessed than say... the Kato's... Hopefully it's not too recessed because I do like my vocals more up front.


----------



## Tommy C

I see a post by FiiO from last October that Ambient and EQ tested and passed QA and will be implemented OTA "soon".
Wonder when those enhancements will be available as I'm not ready to pull the trigger on the UTWS5 just yet.
If the FW update is not going to be available by the end of the month I'll keep the Shure TW2 as they are just too nice of a product to give up.


----------



## scubaphish

Tommy C said:


> I see a post by FiiO from last October that Ambient and EQ tested and passed QA and will be implemented OTA "soon".
> Wonder when those enhancements will be available as I'm not ready to pull the trigger on the UTWS5 just yet.
> If the FW update is not going to be available by the end of the month I'll keep the Shure TW2 as they are just too nice of a product to give up.


To that point, I’ve read a few posts that the UTWS5 pushes more power than the TW2. I’ve been looking for that info but can’t seem to find the output info on TW2.


----------



## erockg

Tommy C said:


> I see a post by FiiO from last October that Ambient and EQ tested and passed QA and will be implemented OTA "soon".
> Wonder when those enhancements will be available as I'm not ready to pull the trigger on the UTWS5 just yet.
> If the FW update is not going to be available by the end of the month I'll keep the Shure TW2 as they are just too nice of a product to give up.


Fiio said "We have just opened the internal test of ambient sound mode for domestic users, please wait patiently." a few days ago, but I hear they keep pushing it.  Clearly, if they were talking about it in October, it's anyone guess now!  https://www.head-fi.org/threads/fii...ndent-ak4332-dac.959856/page-46#post-16754918


----------



## Tommy C

scubaphish said:


> To that point, I’ve read a few posts that the UTWS5 pushes more power than the TW2. I’ve been looking for that info but can’t seem to find the output info on TW2.



Yeah, me too. Just not sure if I it's even needed as I feel the Shure TW2 have plenty of headroom. 
The lack of ambient mode and EQ in the UTWS5 is holding me back at the moment from purchasing them. 
Also, the TW2 is such a nice, polished product. Anything less than that will  probably disappoint me. 
I'm still thinking of getting the Shure SE535 Special Edition which have more low end or something from Campfire Audio and call it a day for a little while.


----------



## erockg

Tommy C said:


> Yeah, me too. Just not sure if I it's even needed as I feel the Shure TW2 have plenty of headroom.
> The lack of ambient mode and EQ in the UTWS5 is holding me back at the moment from purchasing them.
> Also, the TW2 is such a nice, polished product. Anything less than that will  probably disappoint me.
> I'm still thinking of getting the Shure SE535 Special Edition which have more low end or something from Campfire Audio and call it a day for a little while.


I put the Oriveti OH500s on the Shure TW2s and they sounded really good.  Plenty of power.  I think it's going to be hit or miss for you.  If you want to get a higher end IEM, I'd totally go for something other than the 535, but that's me.  I think you can get a great set of hybrid buts ala DD and a few BAs that really shine.  Pair that with the TW2 and boom!


----------



## xSDMx

Tommy C said:


> Yeah, me too. Just not sure if I it's even needed as I feel the Shure TW2 have plenty of headroom.
> The lack of ambient mode and EQ in the UTWS5 is holding me back at the moment from purchasing them.
> Also, the TW2 is such a nice, polished product. Anything less than that will  probably disappoint me.
> I'm still thinking of getting the Shure SE535 Special Edition which have more low end or something from Campfire Audio and call it a day for a little while.


I wouldn't put too much hope in the UTWS5 ambient mode. I used the beta FW and it was not a particularly great experience. You have to use the app to control ambient mode. Even just to enable/disable it - there are no earhook controls. It is also very susceptible to wind noise and near useless outside. There's also no pause for ambient mode which is a fantastic usability feature on the TW2.

If you have hard to drive IEMs and don't care about ambient mode, get the UTWS5. If you need ambient mode or care about usability, etc... the TW2 is the best option.


----------



## Tommy C

erockg said:


> I put the Oriveti OH500s on the Shure TW2s and they sounded really good.  Plenty of power.  I think it's going to be hit or miss for you.  If you want to get a higher end IEM, I'd totally go for something other than the 535, but that's me.  I think you can get a great set of hybrid buts ala DD and a few BAs that really shine.  Pair that with the TW2 and boom!



I don't disagree with you. I have my eyes on the Onyx by CA


----------



## Tommy C

xSDMx said:


> I wouldn't put too much hope in the UTWS5 ambient mode. I used the beta FW and it was not a particularly great experience. You have to use the app to control ambient mode. Even just to enable/disable it - there are no earhook controls. It is also very susceptible to wind noise and near useless outside. There's also no pause for ambient mode which is a fantastic usability feature on the TW2.
> 
> If you have hard to drive IEMs and don't care about ambient mode, get the UTWS5. If you need ambient mode or care about usability, etc... the TW2 is the best option.



That's pretty much what I needed to know. Thank you!
If there is no play/pause at least then that's a real bummer and I'm very spoiled by the Shure's ambient mode, as you know works wonderfully.


----------



## erockg (Jan 9, 2022)

xSDMx said:


> I wouldn't put too much hope in the UTWS5 ambient mode. I used the beta FW and it was not a particularly great experience. You have to use the app to control ambient mode. Even just to enable/disable it - there are no earhook controls. It is also very susceptible to wind noise and near useless outside. There's also no pause for ambient mode which is a fantastic usability feature on the TW2.
> 
> If you have hard to drive IEMs and don't care about ambient mode, get the UTWS5. If you need ambient mode or care about usability, etc... the TW2 is the best option.


Agree here.  Fostex TM2s has the same type of ambient.  Granted, they were really cool adapters, but overpriced and you have to go into an app to enable ambient was a chore.  Not ergonomic.


----------



## guitarizt

dmphile said:


> Thanks, looking forward to trying them out! The only thing I'm a little concerned about is that I've read that the vocals are a little more recessed than say... the Kato's... Hopefully it's not too recessed because I do like my vocals more up front.


That's my biggest gripe with my timeless so far. Have a balanced cable and btr5 coming to see if they help. Also got the utws3's today, but won't get a chance til tom to try them.


----------



## dmphile (Jan 10, 2022)

guitarizt said:


> That's my biggest gripe with my timeless so far. Have a balanced cable and btr5 coming to see if they help. Also got the utws3's today, but won't get a chance til tom to try them.


Will report back my thoughts and feelings on the combo when they arrive. Let me know what you think of them with the utws3.


----------



## 3Putter

cytoSiN said:


> Well I've certainly not tried EVERY pair.  But the Solaris sounds great to me, best I've heard and it's not close (although I've not heard many others in that price range).  I listen to a lot of different genres, but most of my collection is on the heavier side (mostly metal), and they just give me a really massive soundstage that is balanced and clear, which is exactly what I want.  Once I found Solaris I honestly stopped looking at IEMs and that's been true for a couple years now.  There's a ton of reviews out there, but I'd encourage you to demo a pair if you can find them locally.  Fwiw, I've got the OG gold pair, not the 2020s, which are more v-shaped as I understand it.


I would enjoy trying a pair sometime but it will require travel which won't happen specifically to hear these so it will be a coincidence. My source gear isn't high end so I question if I'll receive the benefit of what these can produce. My $400 to $500 are really good. I've had them for over two years now, too. I do find myself looking for over the ears and wireless more often so we'll see what I end up doing.


----------



## Phaethon

Just got the UTWS5s in both flavors yesterday and i opened the two pin version and started playing around. Fiio does its usual nice packaging job and the cas has a good, solid, well-designed feel. The adapters are sleek and seem somewhat shorter than the TW2. I haven’t put them side by side to really compare the size difference. I installed my Shozy Form 1.4 IEM on the right side and played around a little with the fit. The adapter felt a little odd behind my ear and I just couldn’t get a good seal. I thought I’d do a little tip fitting and then realized I had the left bud on the right connecter! Now it’s time to get ready for work so I’ll have to put it off until lunch! I’ll compare the Shure and the Fiios later.


----------



## 3Putter

Ceeluh7 said:


> Ya dude... Not at all, that is silly 50 freaking hours. I may have to get back into the over-ear game. Err, maybe not, they still look cool though


Love B&O H9's. Charge time is unreal. I will listen to them off and on for three weeks before I get the 'beep' indicating a charge is coming. Sound really good. Volume limited but at my age - probably a good thing!


----------



## 3Putter

Caipirina said:


> Those who have / had the Beats Fit Pro .. what are your feelings now after the hype died down?
> They are supposed to be released in Japan sometime this month and since my wife liberated my APP from me, I am missing 'something like that' ... and I wonder if I just get my own pair of APP (somehow they are never on sale here) or I try the beats ... the wait for APP2 (2nd half this year) is too long


Some are saying the AirPods Gen 3 sound really good, too. Less money and if you're not using them hours a day why not?


----------



## 3Putter

myromeo said:


> I’m looking to get my sister in law some TWS IEM’s for her birthday, for casual listening on her commute. Source will be iPhone and genre pop music. She will appreciate sound quality over brand name so looking at the chi fi options. I think she will enjoy a U or V shaped sound signature, clear mids but with plenty bass. Comfort and a secure fit are very important. I’m a fan of KZ but never heard their TWS offerings. For a low budget, say under £40, what would you recommend? Currently looking at the KZ SK10.


AirPods Pro or Gen 3. She'll thank you.


----------



## Juturna

3Putter said:


> AirPods Pro or Gen 3. She'll thank you.


I mean if they prioritize bass I don't think AirPods Pro or Gen 3 sounds like the best option.  
The Airpods Pro sound okay in my opinion but it won't blow anyone away, based on what he wrote I don't think it would be my recommendation, but if she values call quality and ease of use then maybe they're a good choice.


----------



## guitarizt

dmphile said:


> Will report back my thoughts and feelings on the combo when they arrive. Let me know what you think of them with the utws3.


So the good is that the utws3 is lighter than I thought. Worked np. Hopefully I don't get the bugs others have. For the used price on amazon these are great.

The bad is that it doesn't get as loud as when I use the headphone jack on pc. I think I can hear a bit of distortion with everything cranked. That being said, there's less of that lower end bass, and the vocals sound more balanced to me. The sound quality and crazy technicality these have is dropped down maybe half a grade or so, but it actually makes it more enjoyable for me to listen to by default. I'm hoping the btr5 + balanced cable fixes the other stuff for me so I don't have to downgrade the quality to make the sound sig more enjoyable.

For portability I get way less picky about quality and overall I'm happy with these. The bar will be set much higher for the btr5.


----------



## 3Putter

Juturna said:


> I mean if they prioritize bass I don't think AirPods Pro or Gen 3 sounds like the best option.
> The Airpods Pro sound okay in my opinion but it won't blow anyone away, based on what he wrote I don't think it would be my recommendation, but if she values call quality and ease of use then maybe they're a good choice.


He was talking KZ so figured anything from Apple will sound as good and work better.


----------



## Cornilius

Tommy C said:


> I also have the Comfobuds Pro, in Aurora Blue which has the  EQ presets. I like the Acoustic 1 presets the most.
> My experience is a bit different than yours. I'm able to get a good seal and they fit great but shallow and I'm able to exercise or jog with them.
> I find the sound quality very good. Nice lush mids, punchy bass and highs that don't pierce the ears.
> Comparing them to $200 isn't entirely fair IMO. I have them here with the Fiil T1XS, Sennheiser CX 400BT and the Shure TW2 with the SE215 Special Edition.
> ...


I have tried the included tips, none of them keep them in my ear. I can tell that the second to largest is the best fit, however. The OP mentioned that he needed good sound quality, that is why I compared to my pinnacle p1. For $70 TWS you won't find good sound quality. I'm sure they are better than some others (I did pick these for myself after a lot of research) but they are not very impressive to _my ears _for music, given the reasons above.


----------



## scubaphish

Tommy C said:


> I don't disagree with you. I have my eyes on the Onyx by CA


You probably already did the search, but just in case, a couple of members responded with some feedback on Onyx. I can’t tell if bass response is relative to other CA buds or in general/absolute value. 

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/campfire-audio-multiverse.960343/page-31


----------



## Phaethon

BooleanBones said:


> Anyone in FOG (Fokus Owners Group) get a infrequent noisy hiccup in either bud? Once every blue moon I have been getting a little blurp in the right side. Just curious before I ping Noble.


Yep. Once every so often. It’s like a skip


----------



## Phaethon

Caipirina said:


> Those who have / had the Beats Fit Pro .. what are your feelings now after the hype died down?
> They are supposed to be released in Japan sometime this month and since my wife liberated my APP from me, I am missing 'something like that' ... and I wonder if I just get my own pair of APP (somehow they are never on sale here) or I try the beats ... the wait for APP2 (2nd half this year) is too long


They definitely have their purpose. I like the H1 chip Apple features. I find the sound both better than I expected and somewhat lacking. Sometimes even fatiguing. I don’t like screwing them into my ears and if I fall asleep on my side, my ears end up pretty sore


----------



## jant71 (Jan 10, 2022)

Somebody came across this and showed me... https://www.newswire.com/news/zorloo-introduces-dual-mode-zophia-wire-less-earphone-21593413
Not amazing battery or features so it needs to sound very good. But it can actually be used with the DAC cable, TWS, and two pin for adapters or other cables. Basically another wired/wireless type but we add a DAC cable instead of a cheaper throw in.

Of course with this design...




They should have little rubber plug pieces for TWS use for water and dirt protection. A set of different size fins that wrap around the housing and plug into the connector area so they lock in would have been a real nice touch.


----------



## Ynot1

https://www.zorloo.com/zophia?utm_c...mail&cid=ec4dd9f3-0fe6-4b1b-97e2-1ea702df93cd

More info.


----------



## bladefd

Ynot1 said:


> https://www.zorloo.com/zophia?utm_c...mail&cid=ec4dd9f3-0fe6-4b1b-97e2-1ea702df93cd
> 
> More info.


Only 5hrs battery!?! =(


----------



## scubaphish (Jan 10, 2022)

Tommy C said:


> I don't disagree with you. I have my eyes on the Onyx by CA


Hey @Tommy C, FYI I sent CA an email to learn more about the Onyx.
From me:
“When comparing the sound signature of the Onyx to other of your IEMs the appear to have strong bass but not overwhelming; is that a fair description? I like some sparkles in the highs (appreciate hearing high hats and snares), balanced mids, and a kick to the bass without overwhelming. Am I looking at that sort of delivery with the Onyx?”

The response:
“I think your impression of Onyx is fairly accurate. The bass is very present without being overwhelming, it's also a fairly warm/relaxed overall presentation in the mids and highs. It uses a dynamic driver for the lows/mids, and a dedicated balanced armature for the highs. This configuration gives a good sense of separation and detail as well.”

I ordered them


----------



## Tommy C

scubaphish said:


> Hey @Tommy C, FYI I sent CA an email to learn more about the Onyx.
> From me:
> “When comparing the sound signature of the Onyx to other of your IEMs the appear to have strong bass but not overwhelming; is that a fair description? I like some sparkles in the highs (appreciate hearing high hats and snares), balanced mids, and a kick to the bass without overwhelming. Am I looking at that sort of delivery with the Onyx?”
> 
> ...



Color me intrigued...


----------



## scubaphish

Tommy C said:


> Color me intrigued...


Lol, that’s literally how I opened my email up them. 

“Hi. I’m super intrigued by the Onyx and was hoping you could provide me with a bit more info than what’s on website…”


----------



## erockg

scubaphish said:


> Lol, that’s literally how I opened my email up them.
> 
> “Hi. I’m super intrigued by the Onyx and was hoping you could provide me with a bit more info than what’s on website…”


We're like women who are always together, then find out they're on the same cycle.  This is awkward.


----------



## scubaphish

Tommy C said:


> Color me intrigued...


Last one on this…for now at least 

“As for the drivers, the balanced armature was used in Dorado 2020 and I believe the dynamic driver is very similar to the one used in the original Polaris, but with a slightly different material coating the diaphragm.”


----------



## scubaphish

erockg said:


> We're like women who are always together, then find out they're on the same cycle.  This is awkward.


Awkward…lol!


----------



## erockg (Jan 10, 2022)

erockg said:


> Sooooo... these Final ZE3000 just arrived.  I have to admit, I thought they wouldn't fit me.  But they fit me perfectly.  Weird because they are so odd looking.  The case is insanely light and about the size of a Jabra 75T case.  No wireless charging.  They packed some nice sub-bass in these.  Literally just popped them in, but so far not bad.  No app yet but when you click through to the site it says the English version is still being built.  Lame, but I didn't even know there was an app coming, so happy accident?


Of course Audio46 just lowered the price on these to $149.  Trying to get price adjusted by them!


----------



## erockg

erockg said:


> Got the Oriveti OH500 not too long ago.  Much better for my taste compared to the FH9 off the bat.  They fit both the Fiio UTWS5 and Shure TW2s perfectly.  No fit issues other than the tips for me.  Wound up putting on an extra pair of Noble Fokus tips and I'm liking it.  Very pretty buds.  Wide soundstage.  Sub-bass is better than the FH9.  Let the fun begin... again.  Hopefully these stick.  Pray for me.


Just read that Oriveti's sister company is Lypertek.  I'm sure I'm just late to the party there.


----------



## jant71

erockg said:


> Of course Audio46 just lowered the price on these to $149.  Trying to get price adjusted by them!


Think they just overcharged and the $149 was supposed to be the price all along. I call them on a AT once cause they were charging more than the price was supposed to be cause they had it first. They should price match. I didn't buy that earphone back then but they did change the price to what it should have been after I called them on it.


----------



## erockg

jant71 said:


> Think they just overcharged and the $149 was supposed to be the price all along. I call them on a AT once cause they were charging more than the price was supposed to be cause they had it first. They should price match. I didn't buy that earphone back then but they did change the price to what it should have been after I called them on it.


Thanks.  You know, I could use that extra money for more stuff!


----------



## Phaethon

erockg said:


> We're like women who are always together, then find out they're on the same cycle.  This is awkward.


Awww man! I laugh-snorted coffee out of my nose and  now I’m at work looking for a clean shirt!


----------



## jant71 (Jan 10, 2022)

Yep, they are both Sound innovations which reminds me to check - and we have a new one.


----------



## erockg

jant71 said:


> Yep, they are both Sound innovations which reminds me to check and...
> https://fccid.io/ezoimgfmt/pdf.cab/images/texture.png?ezimgfmt=rs:device/rscb1-1/ng:webp/ngcb1


Link isn't working


----------



## erockg

jant71 said:


> Yep, they are both Sound innovations which reminds me to check and...
> https://fccid.io/2AW9I-LPT04/Users-Manual/User-Manual-5431653


Found this though https://fccid.io/2AW9I-LPT04/External-Photos/External-Photos-5431650


----------



## jant71 (Jan 10, 2022)

Yep, I saw that afterward the image doesn't load/show. Must be Firefox that I'm on now.
Pureplay Z5 is a stem style true wireless with ANC.





The latest pair of Lypertek True Wireless headphones with ANC . active noise cancellation technology
New Qualcomm QCC3046 processor brings Bluetooth 5.2
Large 8mm Dynamic drivers deliver balanced sound, with dynamic bass
Proximity sensor, automatically interrupts music every time the headset is removed from the ear
Up to 7 hours of use on its own and 40 hours with the charging case
The charging case is capable of wireless charging according to the Qi standard
IPX5 water resistant, ready for outdoor workouts


----------



## erockg

jant71 said:


> Yep, I saw that afterward the image doesn't load/show. Changed to the user manual which is more info anyhow.


I have to admit, they did a really great job with the Oriveti OH500.  Truly loving them on the UTWS5.  Pun intended.


----------



## erockg

erockg said:


> Of course Audio46 just lowered the price on these to $149.  Trying to get price adjusted by them!


BOOM!  They refunded wicked fast.  Safe to say, I'll be shopping there again.


----------



## jant71 (Jan 10, 2022)

^Got that Z5 up there finally. 




erockg said:


> BOOM!  They refunded wicked fast.  Safe to say, I'll be shopping there again.



About the ZE3000, any burn-in improvement or tip rolling revelation on them?


----------



## erockg

jant71 said:


> Got that Z5 up there finally.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Honestly, they are kind of boring. Every now and then the fit digs into my ear because of the sharp edges. They do sound very good, but I'm not in love with the bass response for the music I listen to. I actually prefer the Marshall buds in this price range.  Final is supposed to release an app but it is nowhere to be found in English right now. You can't download the Japanese version of the app here in the US. They advertise the app on the back of the box! Really bothers me when these companies put out stuff that is half baked. Oh well!


----------



## jant71

erockg said:


> Honestly, they are kind of boring. Every now and then the fit digs into my ear because of the sharp edges. They do sound very good, but I'm not in love with the bass response for the music I listen to. I actually prefer the Marshall buds in this price range.  Final is supposed to release an app but it is nowhere to be found in English right now. You can't download the Japanese version of the app here in the US. They advertise the app on the back of the box! Really bothers me when these companies put out stuff that is half baked. Oh well!



Yep only two things it can do well really, sound and fit/comfort. One is very good but not special and the other they missed on. They should learn and improve I would think.


----------



## dj24

Canabuc said:


> My Galaxy note 20 ultra has it on 11.
> When connected to the Technics , in Bluetooth settings go to the connection and three is an LDAC toggle.
> I think developer mode just lets you manually choose a higher quality setting whereas the stock setting is best effort adaptive.



Great.  Have you tried them in the higher setting in developer's mode and see if they stick and if they play without distorting as well?  Maybe you can update us if the latter is true once/ if you upgrade to Android 12..


----------



## Canabuc

dj24 said:


> Great.  Have you tried them in the higher setting in developer's mode and see if they stick and if they play without distorting as well?  Maybe you can update us if the latter is true once/ if you upgrade to Android 12..


Setting doesn't stick. I can go to the 660 setting without stutter.
990 setting is hit and miss and requires location and wifi off and screen closed or stutters. Well just stick with 660 or best effort of lazy.


----------



## Ceeluh7

So just a follow up on my recent purchase of the KZ Az09 Pro. For the money they aren't bad. Let me first state that even with high gain mode activated these have about half the power of the Utws3 and much less than the utws5. With that being said they can drive sensitive iems to full fidelity. I am pairing the Blon Bl03 with them and the fit is wonderful as they aren't trying to house a big dac/amp combo like the utws5 and they very snuggly sit around my ear... Very comfortable. The case is slightly smaller than the utws3/5. Honestly these have a decent sound guys, they really do. They lean warmer in presentation but not so much that using warmer iems would be a detriment... Not at all. They have ample low end and are petty balanced across the lows both sub and mid bass. The midrange is just fine and seems to let the iem dictate the presentation. The inbuilt dac in the chipset is actually not at all bad which.... My dudes... I promise I was fully ready to crap all over these. Just remember you need sensitive iems for full dynamic integrity. The Blon Bl03 is the least sensitive I will go with these as they are forcing me to turn them up to 80/100. But... A huge but... Even though I am turning them up to this level they are reaching every part of the spectrum nicely. Please understand this is nothing like what you will hear with the Utws3/5. They are just freaking better. But, with the excellent fit and how they can drive good sensitive  iems to their max.... Id say these are damn nice. They sound nice, no irregularities or weird graininess, no particles floating around or middiness... They are nice.


----------



## cytoSiN (Jan 10, 2022)

Ceeluh7 said:


> So just a follow up on my recent purchase of the KZ Az09 Pro. For the money they aren't bad. Let me first state that even with high gain mode activated these have about half the power of the Utws3 and much less than the utws5. With that being said they can drive sensitive iems to full fidelity. I am pairing the Blon Bl03 with them and the fit is wonderful as they aren't trying to house a big dac/amp combo like the utws5 and they very snuggly sit around my ear... Very comfortable. The case is slightly smaller than the utws3/5. Honestly these have a decent sound guys, they really do. They lean warmer in presentation but not so much that using warmer iems would be a detriment... Not at all. They have ample low end and are petty balanced across the lows both sub and mid bass. The midrange is just fine and seems to let the iem dictate the presentation. The inbuilt dac in the chipset is actually not at all bad which.... My dudes... I promise I was fully ready to crap all over these. Just remember you need sensitive iems for full dynamic integrity. The Blon Bl03 is the least sensitive I will go with these as they are forcing me to turn them up to 80/100. But... A huge but... Even though I am turning them up to this level they are reaching every part of the spectrum nicely. Please understand this is nothing like what you will hear with the Utws3/5. They are just freaking better. But, with the excellent fit and how they can drive good sensitive  iems to their max.... Id say these are damn nice. They sound nice, no irregularities or weird graininess, no particles floating around or middiness... They are nice.


For the price might be worth a go, especially if I can't find a deal on the TW2 anywhere for my Solaris.  But I too enjoy my Bl03 (I mean, who wouldn't enjoy the Oppoty?!), and the 2-pin on the KZ *might* also work with the Etys, although they've got a weird length issue iirc, so it might be worth having something 2pin in addition to the MMCX on the TW2...


----------



## Ceeluh7

cytoSiN said:


> For the price might be worth a go, especially if I can't find a deal on the TW2 anywhere for my Solaris.  But I too enjoy my Bl03 (I mean, who wouldn't enjoy the Oppoty?!), and the 2-pin on the KZ *might* also work with the Etys, although they've got a weird length issue iirc, so it might be worth having something 2pin in addition to the MMCX on the TW2...


Ya for the price they are nice, though for a lil bit more the Utws3 is much better sonically imo. Ehh, I shouldn't say much better but louder and slightly more polished. Anything, at most 32 ohms and a higher sensitivity I think are fine with the Az09 Pro. BTW I think the performance mode is not a high gain mode but a lower latency mode.... I think. I really do like the size of the adapters themselves. So I took off the Blons and went I stead with a much better Hidizs MS2 and this pairing seems to shine man. The colder nature and more detailed nature of the MS2 seems to be a sweet spot. I put on the KZ Zex, ZAS, edx Pro, DQ6, Tfz No3, fiio fd1, and none sounded nearly as good as the MS2. The Zex was a no go... As these seem to highlight the issues with the Zex. The Blon bl03 and blon mini sounded nice as well. I would not compare these to anything like the Shure TW2 or the Utws3 & 5 as you will be very much disappointed as these just don't have the driving power to bring everything to full dynamics


----------



## erockg (Jan 10, 2022)

Spent part of the late afternoon messing with the Audio-Techinica ATH-CKS50TW here.  I know I've mentioned it before, but for $150, they are just a great value.  You have to get them from Amazon Japan right now, but wow.  They are the Solid Bass buds, but I EQ that bass down.  You don't need so much.  I actually really like the audio.  It's warm, not clinical, but def not offensive.  The ANC knocks out all the hums, fans and traffic noise nearby.  Can barely hear the tv too in the other room.  Esp. with a good seal.  Little features like Quick Hear-Through are great.  Basically, you hold assign it to one or both bud.  Works sort of like the Sony XM4 quick ambient mode.  In this case, you hold the button and it lowers the music volume way down and leaves ambient mode on.  Hold the button again and the music goes back to the original volume.  Also, you can change the volume increments which is pretty cool.  No more volume jumping that is too loud or too soft.  I think these buds are flying under the radar and hope that others at least take a look.

Worst part of the above is that my Fiio UTWS5s kept connecting while charging in the case.  ANNOYING that it's still happening.


----------



## Ceeluh7

erockg said:


> Spent part of the late afternoon messing with the Audio-Techinica ATH-CKS50TW here.  I know I've mentioned it before, but for $150, they are just a great value.  You have to get them from Amazon Japan right now, but wow.  They are the Solid Bass buds, but I EQ that bass down.  You don't need so much.  I actually really like the audio.  It's warm, not clinical, but def not offensive.  The ANC knocks out all the hums, fans and traffic noise nearby.  Can barely hear the tv too in the other room.  Esp. with a good seal.  Little features like Quick Hear-Through are great.  Basically, you hold assign it to one or both bud.  Works sort of like the Sony XM4 quick ambient mode.  In this case, you hold the button and it lowers the music volume way down and leaves ambient mode on.  Hold the button again and the music goes back to the original volume.  Also, you can change the volume increments which is pretty cool.  No more volume jumping that is too loud or too soft.  I think these buds are flying under the radar and hope that others at least take a look.
> 
> Worst part of the above is that my Fiio UTWS5s kept connecting while charging in the case.  ANNOYING that it's still happening.


I really would love these to be available here in the States man. I believe you when you talk about them as you have gone through so many of the supposed "great" sets, you've Def earned it there man. I would love to check them out. Anyways, man that sucks so bad about your utws5. It's as though you'd have to go thru holding each adapter for 5 seconds when putting them away and 3 seconds to turn on when you want to listen... It just sucks. I am very thankful I have had none of these sucky issues as these adapters just absolutely rock man. Whatever I pair them with that internal dac/amp is so good. I'm sorry man, maybe they'll get it right in a firmware update or something, you aren't the only one with the issue, although on the other hand there have been many who have not had issues. However in this game you can't have QC or software issues, esp over $100. Sucks


----------



## erockg

Ceeluh7 said:


> I really would love these to be available here in the States man. I believe you when you talk about them as you have gone through so many of the supposed "great" sets, you've Def earned it there man. I would love to check them out. Anyways, man that sucks so bad about your utws5. It's as though you'd have to go thru holding each adapter for 5 seconds when putting them away and 3 seconds to turn on when you want to listen... It just sucks. I am very thankful I have had none of these sucky issues as these adapters just absolutely rock man. Whatever I pair them with that internal dac/amp is so good. I'm sorry man, maybe they'll get it right in a firmware update or something, you aren't the only one with the issue, although on the other hand there have been many who have not had issues. However in this game you can't have QC or software issues, esp over $100. Sucks


Thanks man  Funny you say that, sometimes the holding each adapter to shut down doesn't even work.  That said, they really do pump out some great power.  I've been using them again for days with those Oriveti and the Variations.  Can't get enough, I'm still hungry.  Yep, I did just quote Kip Winger.  You're welcome.  I have the KZs coming and plan to cut off the tips for my 2 Pin, also, I ordered those BT30s to try and HiFiGo still hasn't shipped since I ordered last Thursday.  They claim this week.  Maybe I should take a shot at the UTWS3?  Any annoyances there or -- ?

I've had zero issues with Amazon Japan, so... Oh, right, you have all that Amazon dough!


----------



## Ceeluh7

erockg said:


> Thanks man  Funny you say that, sometimes the holding each adapter to shut down doesn't even work.  That said, they really do pump out some great power.  I've been using them again for days with those Oriveti and the Variations.  Can't get enough, I'm still hungry.  Yep, I did just quote Kip Winger.  You're welcome.  I have the KZs coming and plan to cut off the tips for my 2 Pin, also, I ordered those BT30s to try and HiFiGo still hasn't shipped since I ordered last Thursday.  They claim this week.  Maybe I should take a shot at the UTWS3?  Any annoyances there or -- ?
> 
> I've had zero issues with Amazon Japan, so... Oh, right, you have all that Amazon dough!


Dude I don't want to even attempt to tell you hat you'd have no issue with the Utws3. Lol. I did have one solo issue with connecting on one of my 3's and I alcohol cleaned the adapter terminals and the case terminal, I unpaired them from my phone and I reset them, I think I did that 2 or 3 times because I wasn't sure if it reset. Anyways I've had it for about 7 months maybe without a repeat offense. Honestly when I listen a/b with the 3 and 5.....i can't really tell a huge difference sonically between them other than a bit more dynamics on the 5 in a more balanced approach and just a bit more power, not much more. About the kz az09 pro, they are nice but you'll hear the difference if you are judging them against beasts like the utws5, they are not the same animal but they are nicely comfortable and tidy, if that makes sense. I also cut the two pin adapter back and it was easy, soft rubber, it does take some back and forth with an exacto knife and some good pushing so be careful... Obviously.


----------



## BooleanBones

erockg said:


> Spent part of the late afternoon messing with the Audio-Techinica ATH-CKS50TW here.  I know I've mentioned it before, but for $150, they are just a great value.  You have to get them from Amazon Japan right now, but wow.  They are the Solid Bass buds, but I EQ that bass down.  You don't need so much.  I actually really like the audio.  It's warm, not clinical, but def not offensive.  The ANC knocks out all the hums, fans and traffic noise nearby.  Can barely hear the tv too in the other room.  Esp. with a good seal.  Little features like Quick Hear-Through are great.  Basically, you hold assign it to one or both bud.  Works sort of like the Sony XM4 quick ambient mode.  In this case, you hold the button and it lowers the music volume way down and leaves ambient mode on.  Hold the button again and the music goes back to the original volume.  Also, you can change the volume increments which is pretty cool.  No more volume jumping that is too loud or too soft.  I think these buds are flying under the radar and hope that others at least take a look.
> 
> Worst part of the above is that my Fiio UTWS5s kept connecting while charging in the case.  ANNOYING that it's still happening.


How about Zoom/Teams? Any good?


----------



## LordToneeus

erockg said:


> Thanks man  Funny you say that, sometimes the holding each adapter to shut down doesn't even work.  That said, they really do pump out some great power.  I've been using them again for days with those Oriveti and the Variations.  Can't get enough, I'm still hungry.  Yep, I did just quote Kip Winger.  You're welcome.  I have the KZs coming and plan to cut off the tips for my 2 Pin, also, I ordered those BT30s to try and HiFiGo still hasn't shipped since I ordered last Thursday.  They claim this week.  Maybe I should take a shot at the UTWS3?  Any annoyances there or -- ?
> 
> I've had zero issues with Amazon Japan, so... Oh, right, you have all that Amazon dough!


Madalaine would be so proud.


----------



## erockg

LordToneeus said:


> Madalaine would be so proud.


Never forget, My Lord.


----------



## jant71

erockg said:


> Spent part of the late afternoon messing with the Audio-Techinica ATH-CKS50TW here.  I know I've mentioned it before, but for $150, they are just a great value.  You have to get them from Amazon Japan right now, but wow.  They are the Solid Bass buds, but I EQ that bass down.  You don't need so much.  I actually really like the audio.  It's warm, not clinical, but def not offensive.  The ANC knocks out all the hums, fans and traffic noise nearby.  Can barely hear the tv too in the other room.  Esp. with a good seal.  Little features like Quick Hear-Through are great.  Basically, you hold assign it to one or both bud.  Works sort of like the Sony XM4 quick ambient mode.  In this case, you hold the button and it lowers the music volume way down and leaves ambient mode on.  Hold the button again and the music goes back to the original volume.  Also, you can change the volume increments which is pretty cool.  No more volume jumping that is too loud or too soft.  I think these buds are flying under the radar and hope that others at least take a look.



You tried the Final exclusive tips on the AT yet?? Sounds like someone is gonna try the ATH-TWX9 when it comes along


----------



## erockg

jant71 said:


> You tried the Final exclusive tips on the AT yet?? Sounds like someone is gonna try the ATH-TWX9 when it comes along


I haven't tried the tips, but what Final included didn't really blow me away.  I really like the tips AT included with the 50s.  What do the TWX9s look like?  You always have the inside information!


----------



## jant71

erockg said:


> I haven't tried the tips, but what Final included didn't really blow me away.  I really like the tips AT included with the 50s.  What do the TWX9s look like?  You always have the inside information!


Good stock tips but they do hold the stage size and bass quality back a bit. Enough to notice so I swapped out.

X9 is still in the confidentiality window so no pics yet. Still around 80 days of confidentiality left if they need it and are not ahead of schedule.


----------



## erockg

jant71 said:


> Good stock tips but they do hold the stage size and bass quality back a bit. Enough to notice so I swapped out.
> 
> X9 is still in the confidentiality window so no pics yet. Still around 80 days of confidentiality left if they need it and are not ahead of schedule.


I was just looking at that, since October.  Guess we'll see if they are better than the 50s.  You swapped out with the Final tips or?


----------



## jant71

erockg said:


> I was just looking at that, since October.  Guess we'll see if they are better than the 50s.  You swapped out with the Final tips or?


Nope. Was curious. Don't have any Final tips. Using JVC tips.


----------



## erockg

jant71 said:


> Nope. Was curious. Don't have any Final tips. Using JVC tips.


I have so many, they all become derivative of one another IMO.


----------



## jant71

erockg said:


> I have so many, they all become derivative of one another IMO.



Back here I went through what I found.... https://www.head-fi.org/threads/goi...e-we-there-yet.861024/page-2635#post-16673604 
Stock are better than many that come stock on TWS but trying to get the most tight bass with the least thickness they did come in 5th place due to a smidge of bloat.


----------



## guitarizt

erockg said:


> Spent part of the late afternoon messing with the Audio-Techinica ATH-CKS50TW here.  I know I've mentioned it before, but for $150, they are just a great value.  You have to get them from Amazon Japan right now, but wow.  They are the Solid Bass buds, but I EQ that bass down.  You don't need so much.  I actually really like the audio.  It's warm, not clinical, but def not offensive.  The ANC knocks out all the hums, fans and traffic noise nearby.  Can barely hear the tv too in the other room.  Esp. with a good seal.  Little features like Quick Hear-Through are great.  Basically, you hold assign it to one or both bud.  Works sort of like the Sony XM4 quick ambient mode.  In this case, you hold the button and it lowers the music volume way down and leaves ambient mode on.  Hold the button again and the music goes back to the original volume.  Also, you can change the volume increments which is pretty cool.  No more volume jumping that is too loud or too soft.  I think these buds are flying under the radar and hope that others at least take a look.
> 
> Worst part of the above is that my Fiio UTWS5s kept connecting while charging in the case.  ANNOYING that it's still happening.


Hmm interesting. Great price. Unfortunately the galaxy pros have set the bar high for me in the 130 price bracket. I still love mine, but falling more in love with the idea of using separate components.


Ceeluh7 said:


> Dude I don't want to even attempt to tell you hat you'd have no issue with the Utws3. Lol. I did have one solo issue with connecting on one of my 3's and I alcohol cleaned the adapter terminals and the case terminal, I unpaired them from my phone and I reset them, I think I did that 2 or 3 times because I wasn't sure if it reset. Anyways I've had it for about 7 months maybe without a repeat offense. Honestly when I listen a/b with the 3 and 5.....i can't really tell a huge difference sonically between them other than a bit more dynamics on the 5 in a more balanced approach and just a bit more power, not much more. About the kz az09 pro, they are nice but you'll hear the difference if you are judging them against beasts like the utws5, they are not the same animal but they are nicely comfortable and tidy, if that makes sense. I also cut the two pin adapter back and it was easy, soft rubber, it does take some back and forth with an exacto knife and some good pushing so be careful... Obviously.


Thanks, I was just going to ask you about utws3 vs 5. My 3's are working great so far, and the price is just insane value compared to the 5s. I might get a second pair. I'm liking the sound of my timless more with the utws3's for some reason. It's less technical but more fun and balanced. Maybe the amp is helping the bass not be as flubby which helps balance everything out.


----------



## Juturna

I need to echo the sentiment that I think the bluetooth adapters with different IEM-pairings should have their own thread. 
Not because i'm disinterested in the subject matter, but mostly because it makes this threads seem like it's more about wired IEM's than talking about true wireless earbuds. 

I mean, it's a bit of a gray area because technically you do make a... let's say Moondrop Kato, into a true wireless earbud with the adapter, but the Moondrop Kato is still a wired IEM and doesn't fit that well into the topic. 
I just think it would make sense having a more specific thread about the adapters so you could talk about their respective IEM pairings - which adapters make different IEM's shine and which ones aren't the perfect pairing etcetc, talking about the upsides and downsides about the adapters. 
It would just make the threads seem more... clean. 

I'm not one of the most frequent posters here so I don't want to overstep in the matter, but i know somebody else expressed that opinion a few pages back and I kinda agree with it.


----------



## Caipirina

erockg said:


> Spent part of the late afternoon messing with the Audio-Techinica ATH-CKS50TW here.  I know I've mentioned it before, but for $150, they are just a great value.  You have to get them from Amazon Japan right now, but wow.  They are the Solid Bass buds, but I EQ that bass down.  You don't need so much.  I actually really like the audio.  It's warm, not clinical, but def not offensive.  The ANC knocks out all the hums, fans and traffic noise nearby.  Can barely hear the tv too in the other room.  Esp. with a good seal.  Little features like Quick Hear-Through are great.  Basically, you hold assign it to one or both bud.  Works sort of like the Sony XM4 quick ambient mode.  In this case, you hold the button and it lowers the music volume way down and leaves ambient mode on.  Hold the button again and the music goes back to the original volume.  Also, you can change the volume increments which is pretty cool.  No more volume jumping that is too loud or too soft.  I think these buds are flying under the radar and hope that others at least take a look.
> 
> Worst part of the above is that my Fiio UTWS5s kept connecting while charging in the case.  ANNOYING that it's still happening.


That reminded me to also do some more messing with them ... since it looks like I am 'stuck' with them . but they ain't that bad. And I am looking for best case usage. This fantastic battery life makes it a contender for extended computer use .. usually I wear my Bose QC 35 over ears for that ... but after 5 years of extenisve use, the batteries show their age .. now .. let's see how long my ears are ok with the ATH in them .. on a recent train trip I had some discomfort after 1h, but that might also have been part of the combo winter hat + mask ...  will try them for a movie later ...


----------



## cytoSiN

Juturna said:


> I need to echo the sentiment that I think the bluetooth adapters with different IEM-pairings should have their own thread.
> Not because i'm disinterested in the subject matter, but mostly because it makes this threads seem like it's more about wired IEM's than talking about true wireless earbuds.
> 
> I mean, it's a bit of a gray area because technically you do make a... let's say Moondrop Kato, into a true wireless earbud with the adapter, but the Moondrop Kato is still a wired IEM and doesn't fit that well into the topic.
> ...


This thread is a bit of a catch all.  There are separate threads for various adapters and other more specific topics.  Personally I love that this thread is broader.  I haven't had any trouble finding the specific threads I want (e.g., TW1/TW2) when I'm looking for something very specific I can't find here.


----------



## LordToneeus (Jan 11, 2022)

Juturna said:


> I need to echo the sentiment that I think the bluetooth adapters with different IEM-pairings should have their own thread.
> Not because i'm disinterested in the subject matter, but mostly because it makes this threads seem like it's more about wired IEM's than talking about true wireless earbuds.
> 
> I mean, it's a bit of a gray area because technically you do make a... let's say Moondrop Kato, into a true wireless earbud with the adapter, but the Moondrop Kato is still a wired IEM and doesn't fit that well into the topic.
> ...


This has been floated here before many many moons ago.  I for one don't want to frequent multiple feeds to read up on stereo earbuds that have no wires connecting the two units (truly wireless) when I can get it all in one place.  I pointed out before that they exist on a continuum with more and fewer features, with something like adapter + iem on one side and the Airpods Pro on the other.  They are all truly wireless.


----------



## erockg

BooleanBones said:


> How about Zoom/Teams? Any good?


Zoom worked great!


----------



## LordToneeus

Speaking of the feature-light end of the truly wireless spectrum, here are my TRN BT20S with my KZ ZS5! They sound great! I otherwise very likely would not have revisited these iem’s. Or at least who knows when I would have.


----------



## Ceeluh7

cytoSiN said:


> This thread is a bit of a catch all.  There are separate threads for various adapters and other more specific topics.  Personally I love that this thread is broader.  I haven't had any trouble finding the specific threads I want (e.g., TW1/TW2) when I'm looking for something very specific I can't find here.


I'm with you. That is one thing I really enjoy about this group. It is a catch all, the guys in this group can advise a person in many directions in the wireless spectrum. Truly wireless talk will always be the mainstay but naturally other wireless talk has a place. However that is just my two cents, I haven't been here for as long as many of you, maybe 4 months or so.... I think this group is "The Wireless Capitol of the Freaking Internet"!! In fact that should've been the group name to begin with..... Lol.... The wireless Capitol of the internet


----------



## DRuM

Hi guys. I've got a mate who just bought a wireless charger to put his Sony WF-1000XM4 buds case on. He told me that after the case had been sitting on the charger all day, the case was quite warm when he went to use them. He said apparently it's quite normal as there's a lot of wasted energy with wireless charging and the wasted energy is the heat. But he tells me he doesn't want to keep them on the charger all the time now as he doesn't want the case to get warm and he'll only charge when it's needed. He's concerned  electronics in the case or even the buds could be getting heated up which might decrease their lifespan.

Do you think it's in any way detrimental to keep the case on a wireless charger indefinitely?


----------



## erockg

DRuM said:


> Hi guys. I've got a mate who just bought a wireless charger to put his Sony WF-1000XM4 buds case on. He told me that after the case had been sitting on the charger all day, the case was quite warm when he went to use them. He said apparently it's quite normal as there's a lot of wasted energy with wireless charging and the wasted energy is the heat. But he tells me he doesn't want to keep them on the charger all the time now as he doesn't want the case to get warm and he'll only charge when it's needed. He's concerned  electronics in the case or even the buds could be getting heated up which might decrease their lifespan.
> 
> Do you think it's in any way detrimental to keep the case on a wireless charger indefinitely?


I've seen this happen on a number of my wireless chargeable buds.  I'm not really concerned as most of the legit wireless charging pads have auto-off features when the item charging is fully charged.  But if he's worried, prob better to err on the side of caution.  It's like my wife, who even though she shut the stove off, she still has to check the oven before we leave!


----------



## BooleanBones

DRuM said:


> Hi guys. I've got a mate who just bought a wireless charger to put his Sony WF-1000XM4 buds case on. He told me that after the case had been sitting on the charger all day, the case was quite warm when he went to use them. He said apparently it's quite normal as there's a lot of wasted energy with wireless charging and the wasted energy is the heat. But he tells me he doesn't want to keep them on the charger all the time now as he doesn't want the case to get warm and he'll only charge when it's needed. He's concerned  electronics in the case or even the buds could be getting heated up which might decrease their lifespan.
> 
> Do you think it's in any way detrimental to keep the case on a wireless charger indefinitely?


I don't know that I can 100% answer your question regarding damage, but I have experienced the same with other devices and headphones. My Air Pods Pros do the same most frequently out of my devices


----------



## stormwrx

Speaking of the Sony WF-1000XM4, there's a new firmware update out - version 1.3.3. I am still evaluating, but they sound more detailed and airy now, even over AAC on an iPhone. I turned off my custom EQ for now and am liking the stock tuning so far.


----------



## BooleanBones

stormwrx said:


> Speaking of the Sony WF-1000XM4, there's a new firmware update out - version 1.3.3. I am still evaluating, but they sound more detailed and airy now, even over AAC on an iPhone. I turned off my custom EQ for now and am liking the stock tuning so far.


Thanks, will have to check that out later tonight.


----------



## erockg

erockg said:


> Received my Marshall Motif A.N.C. to compliment my Mode II.  I have to admit, I really love them.  They have a cool rocker edge and the sound is excellent.  Soundstage and EQ is great.  Can't customize the EQ on the Motif yet, but Mode II lets you.  For the Motif, you need to use the presets, which aren't bad.  Both buds have wireless charging, but *no volume controls *  The case on both buds have the look and feel of the old Marshall amp I used to own.  Really like it.  Battery isn't super long, but good enough for me.  Motif has fast charging.  I popped some Devialet tips on the Motif and that helped the fit.  The Mode II are tiny and fit me perfect.  Actually, they're BOTH small.  I feel like they're nicer than the Final ZE3000.


Back to these things.  I think I'm going to return the Mode II version.  Bluetooth hiccups.  I read this happens with them, but tried anyway.  Sad.  Sound is great.  Form factor is stellar. 

The Motif ANC version, zero issues so far.  One main different is they haven't updated the buds to let you customize your EQ on the Motif.  Only works on the Mode II.  Sound is still great with the preset EQ on the Motif, but that's one thing I'm hoping they change -- custom EQ settings.


----------



## BooleanBones

stormwrx said:


> Speaking of the Sony WF-1000XM4, there's a new firmware update out - version 1.3.3. I am still evaluating, but they sound more detailed and airy now, even over AAC on an iPhone. I turned off my custom EQ for now and am liking the stock tuning so far.


Do you notice a volume level difference? Seems they are louder too, but may just be my ears this morning still.


----------



## jsmiller58

Ceeluh7 said:


> I'm with you. That is one thing I really enjoy about this group. It is a catch all, the guys in this group can advise a person in many directions in the wireless spectrum. Truly wireless talk will always be the mainstay but naturally other wireless talk has a place. However that is just my two cents, I haven't been here for as long as many of you, maybe 4 months or so.... I think this group is "The Wireless Capitol of the Freaking Internet"!! In fact that should've been the group name to begin with..... Lol.... The wireless Capitol of the internet


I would agree that having one thread to go to for a breadth of info is convenient.  However, I will make the personal observation that this thread has more or less become an online chat board between a small group of folks.  This results in an explosion of messages, making it useful for those participants, but a bit tedious for the rest of us to keep up with if all we are trying to do is learn about the new developments in wireless audio.  I can be away from this thread for a day or two and find that I am at least 10 pages behind, and when I do read through the missed posts I haven’t learned much.    Anyway, that is just my opinion that I wanted to put out there.


----------



## stormwrx (Jan 11, 2022)

BooleanBones said:


> Do you notice a volume level difference? Seems they are louder too, but may just be my ears this morning still.


Yes, the XM4s do seem to be a bit louder after the update. I am listening to them at about 50% volume on my iPhone 12, so there is plenty of headroom. However, even before the update, the XM4 were among the loudest TWS buds I have used. They could always get way louder than I would ever want or need.

If you can get a good fit, I truly believe that the XM4s are one of the best all-around TWS buds, given the balance of features and sound quality. Having ambient triggered automatically when speaking is an awesome feature.


----------



## jant71 (Jan 11, 2022)

Coming soon and more info but still not all the info yet...
https://www.jabra.com/hearing/enhance-plus


----------



## darveniza

This is starting to happen a lot with my Technics AZ60. Out of the case they were 97 and 90 along the way the battery variance between R/L got smaller.

Not having this on my other TWS. Oh well let's see what happens later


----------



## darveniza

BooleanBones said:


> Do you notice a volume level difference? Seems they are louder too, but may just be my ears this morning still.


No real improvement. A few You Tube channels have also done some testing. Call quality still the same sub par


----------



## Luchyres

erockg said:


> Spent part of the late afternoon messing with the Audio-Techinica ATH-CKS50TW here.  I know I've mentioned it before, but for $150, they are just a great value.  You have to get them from Amazon Japan right now, but wow.  They are the Solid Bass buds, but I EQ that bass down.  You don't need so much.  I actually really like the audio.  It's warm, not clinical, but def not offensive.  The ANC knocks out all the hums, fans and traffic noise nearby.  Can barely hear the tv too in the other room.  Esp. with a good seal.  Little features like Quick Hear-Through are great.  Basically, you hold assign it to one or both bud.  Works sort of like the Sony XM4 quick ambient mode.  In this case, you hold the button and it lowers the music volume way down and leaves ambient mode on.  Hold the button again and the music goes back to the original volume.  Also, you can change the volume increments which is pretty cool.  No more volume jumping that is too loud or too soft.  I think these buds are flying under the radar and hope that others at least take a look.
> 
> Worst part of the above is that my Fiio UTWS5s kept connecting while charging in the case.  ANNOYING that it's still happening.



This post pushed me over the edge... I ordered them from Amazon.co.jp to the US 

Thank you for enabling me.


----------



## Ceeluh7

Kz is officially out of control.... Wth... I just bought the kz az09 pro.... Well I had no idea they went and added the kz az10!!? Of course I had to buy them and I'll return the az09 pro... This is moving too damn quick... Kz let us breathe!


----------



## independent

Ceeluh7 said:


> Kz is officially out of control.... Wth... I just bought the kz az09 pro.... Well I had no idea they went and added the kz az10!!? Of course I had to buy them and I'll return the az09 pro... This is moving too damn quick... Kz let us breathe!


 Been looking at the Az-09 pro. Someone wrote here there is little difference between the az 10 and 9 pro. But the cost difference is quite alot


----------



## Ceeluh7

independent said:


> Been looking at the Az-09 pro. Someone wrote here there is little difference between the az 10 and 9 pro. But the cost difference is quite alot


No... I just bought the az10 for the same price as the az09 pro. They have added different performance modes and a few other things. Now they actually have a high gain mode... That is what I am curious about


----------



## Dobrescu George

What do you need to do, to have a good TWS headset? Today I take a look at an older model, the S80 TWS from Astrotec, trying to help you figure out whether this one works alright for you, and how it compares to a few other TWS models! 

https://www.audiophile-heaven.com/2022/01/astrotec-s80-freedom-but-at-what-cost.html


----------



## jant71

Hadn't seen this one even though I do own a Simgot true wireless already... https://www.amazon.com/SIMGOT-APT7-Amplifier-Transmission-Bluetooth/dp/B08T94Y5YH


----------



## chinmie

jant71 said:


> Hadn't seen this one even though I do own a Simgot true wireless already... https://www.amazon.com/SIMGOT-APT7-Amplifier-Transmission-Bluetooth/dp/B08T94Y5YH



interesting, though I'm thinking to myself that a fiio/trn/kz/shure dongle and a wired detachables would be a better alternative nowadays


----------



## Bobbetybob

jant71 said:


> Coming soon and more info but still not all the info yet...
> https://www.jabra.com/hearing/enhance-plus


Interesting, they definitely sound like they're aimed more at the hearing side of things than the sound side but they do look incredibly small and comfy. Could be a good one for those who like to/need to sleep with buds.



Ceeluh7 said:


> Kz is officially out of control.... Wth... I just bought the kz az09 pro.... Well I had no idea they went and added the kz az10!!? Of course I had to buy them and I'll return the az09 pro... This is moving too damn quick... Kz let us breathe!


Hmm, no APTX on them and no mention of what chipset they're using, will be interesting to see if they sound any better than the Pro.

Also, with regards to discussion of IEM's, adapters etc, there are existing threads in the portable headphone amp forums that cover these but they're not very active. Ultimately this started as a thread about fully wireless IEM's, and adaptors that makes IEM's into TWS still fit that category to me.


----------



## chinmie

Bobbetybob said:


> Ultimately this started as a thread about fully wireless IEM's, and adaptors that makes IEM's into TWS still fit that category to me.



yup, i personally prefer that the topic of tws dongles would stilll be here and not be separated to another thread.


----------



## Ceeluh7

jant71 said:


> Hadn't seen this one even though I do own a Simgot true wireless already... https://www.amazon.com/SIMGOT-APT7-Amplifier-Transmission-Bluetooth/dp/B08T94Y5YH


I've seen these for awhile and was curious. They have been on Amazon for quite some time. I guess they have a decent amp housed within... Who knows


----------



## Ceeluh7

Bobbetybob said:


> Interesting, they definitely sound like they're aimed more at the hearing side of things than the sound side but they do look incredibly small and comfy. Could be a good one for those who like to/need to sleep with buds.
> 
> 
> Hmm, no APTX on them and no mention of what chipset they're using, will be interesting to see if they sound any better than the Pro.
> ...


Yes they do have aptx. FYI. Who knows maybe they will be ok


----------



## jant71 (Jan 11, 2022)

Ceeluh7 said:


> Yes they do have aptx. FYI. Who knows maybe they will be ok






Since they are the gaming model they didn't do the aptX for the lower latency of AAC and SBC. Unless there is some surprise like the AZ09 Pro doing Adaptive even though it is not listed. They do have the spatial audio mode that the 09 Pro don't have but again for the gaming aspect.


----------



## HaliHarry

darveniza said:


> This is starting to happen a lot with my Technics AZ60. Out of the case they were 97 and 90 along the way the battery variance between R/L got smaller.
> 
> Not having this on my other TWS. Oh well let's see what happens later


Long time no see you update your tws ranking.


----------



## Ceeluh7

jant71 said:


> Since they are the gaming model they didn't do the aptX for the lower latency of AAC and SBC. Unless there is some surprise like the AZ09 Pro doing Adaptive even though it is not listed. They do have the spatial audio mode that the 09 Pro don't have but again for the gaming aspect.


Hmm... On Amazon it is listed with aptx... Weird. Okay man thank you


----------



## erockg

Ceeluh7 said:


> Hmm... On Amazon it is listed with aptx... Weird. Okay man thank you


I saw that too.  I think the seller on Amazon is a third party, not KZ who sold the 9 Pro.  I'm sure they just filled out the metadata sloppy.


----------



## jant71

Ceeluh7 said:


> Hmm... On Amazon it is listed with aptx... Weird. Okay man thank you


Sorry to burst the bubble a bit.


----------



## Ceeluh7

jant71 said:


> Sorry to burst the bubble a bit.


All good man... I don't get too caught up in codecs so long as what I'm listening to sounds good, however I would always prefer aptx over AAC. Oh well, I appreciate the help


----------



## darveniza

HaliHarry said:


> Long time no see you update your tws ranking.


Work is keeping me from the hobbies. Also trying to sit down and do a few firmware updates


----------



## turbobb (Jan 11, 2022)

Potentially interested in the AZ10 - can someone please recommend a budget IEM that would work with it and has sound sig similar to the Galaxy Buds Pro? Else something that would fit my preference - non-basshead but do like a little oomph, I do enjoy crisp treble but am sensitive to sibilance - in general not a fan of warmer signatures.

TIA!


----------



## guitarizt

turbobb said:


> Potentially interested in the AZ10 - can someone please recommend a budget IEM that would work with it and has sound sig similar to the Galaxy Buds Pro? Else something that would fit my preference - non-basshead but do like a little oomph, I do enjoy crisp treble but am sensitive to sibilance - in general not a fan of warmer signatures.
> 
> TIA!


I wish the bud pros had connectors so we could try them wired. I think they would sound incredible. I don't have a samsung phone. =/


----------



## guitarizt

Ceeluh7 said:


> All good man... I don't get too caught up in codecs so long as what I'm listening to sounds good, however I would always prefer aptx over AAC. Oh well, I appreciate the help


I'm starting to hate BT. I'm not sure how I feel about my timeless with utws3. I think it's the BT that's killing it. It sounds better on the my pc's headphone jack, but it's still not to where I'm satisfied. Will have to try with btr5 that hopefully arrives tom.


----------



## Phaethon

guitarizt said:


> I'm starting to hate BT. I'm not sure how I feel about my timeless with utws3. I think it's the BT that's killing it. It sounds better on the my pc's headphone jack, but it's still not to where I'm satisfied. Will have to try with btr5 that hopefully arrives tom.


I think you will be happy with how that DAC can open up and amplify your music. It’s an awesome little unit. Enjoy!


----------



## dmphile

guitarizt said:


> I'm starting to hate BT. I'm not sure how I feel about my timeless with utws3. I think it's the BT that's killing it. It sounds better on the my pc's headphone jack, but it's still not to where I'm satisfied. Will have to try with btr5 that hopefully arrives tom.


My timeless is arriving tomorrow and the utws5 on Friday. *Rubbing hands together* counting down!


----------



## The Jojo

The Jojo said:


> I bought the Jabra Elite 75t a few weeks ago. So far I'm enjoying them very much. Here are my thoughts, both positive and negative:
> 
> • The sound is quite bass-boosted, but very rich. Everything that needs a bit of a punch will sound great. Absolutely no noise floor.
> • The app, while a bit weird and redundant in terms of design and functionality, provides a simple equalizer. Works well!
> ...



It's been almost two years, and I've been happy with my Elite 75t ever since. But since this is a hobby and they're really starting to show their age I finally bought several fully wireless IEMs to find my buds for the next couple of years.

Turns out... I might go back to my trusted Jabras.

The first pair I ordered were *Sony WF-1000XM4. *Amazing buds. Great sound quality, impressive ANC, wonderful ambiance mode. I love the female voice telling me the settings, feels a bit sci-fi. The app is expansive, which is great for customization. However, the WF-1000XM4 are huge and sort of bulky. My wife said they looked like I put a ball of white Play-Doh in my ears. 

Then came the *Beoplay EQ*, and I must say, I didn't even understand the concept. I found them to be unremarkable at best. Uncomfortable fit, bulky presentation, a charging case that requires fiddling to insert the earbuds, and, surprisingly, disappointing ANC. Wind noise is almost ridiculous. All in all, they sound and feel like they should cost much less. 

*Bowers and Wilkins PI7*, however, were almost great! Good sound quality, snappy case, nice fit. Design-wise my favorite IEMs ever, they protrude from your ears and yet they're discreet. They look expensive, they feel premium, and that gimmick - to have a case that's connected to any 3.5mm source - is really awesome. I just plugged the case into my 7.1 receiver and _bang_, watched a movie using the PI7. 

So what went wrong? The app. That godforsaken app. 

Let me explain: to activate ambiance mode - which is something I often have to do when in public since, you know, I don't want to be hit by a car, or miss my train station, or have a quick conversation at the counter - you have to use the app. No button control. So you fiddle with your phone, start the app, realize it's not connected to the PI7, wait for a connection, look for the right tab, and ... 

... you get the idea. Ambiance mode should be something you activate and deactivate with a tap. The fact that you have to use an app, "booting up" a connection to the earbuds first is so, so annoying.  B&W didn't really put a lot of thought into this. They didn't even add an equalizer, not even a stylized one like B&O does. It pains me to say that I would have loved the build quality, the sound and that quirky 3.5mm gimmick, but the app killed it. 

So for now, I kept my WF-100XM4 to give them another go. And my Elite 75ts are still not retired. If Bowers and Wilkins revamped their app, I'd totally go for them, but right now I just can't. Such a shame.


----------



## Ceeluh7 (Jan 12, 2022)

turbobb said:


> Potentially interested in the AZ10 - can someone please recommend a budget IEM that would work with it and has sound sig similar to the Galaxy Buds Pro? Else something that would fit my preference - non-basshead but do like a little oomph, I do enjoy crisp treble but am sensitive to sibilance - in general not a fan of warmer signatures.
> 
> TIA!


If you want a cheap iem with them that have a similar sound to the galaxy buds pro I would probably say the Moondrop SSP. However those may be a hair too much for the Az10 to drive. Maybe just go with the KZ budget lineup like the KZ EDX Pro, which is more V-shaped and it is a bit warm of neutral and I can confirm they are fantastic for budget or kz dq6 which are less warm and need time to burn in, they triple dynamic driver lil beasts, KZ Zex is a good set as well as the cca cra. Honestly there is alot to choose from in the budget price point which are pretty nice, these sets are all under $30. If you could push a bit more I personally really enjoy the Tripowin TC01 and the Tripowin Mele, both can be found for about $40-50. There are a bunch more... What is your budget... I should've prob asked that to begin with


----------



## Ceeluh7

guitarizt said:


> I'm starting to hate BT. I'm not sure how I feel about my timeless with utws3. I think it's the BT that's killing it. It sounds better on the my pc's headphone jack, but it's still not to where I'm satisfied. Will have to try with btr5 that hopefully arrives tom.


Dude the BTR5 will most certainly open up the Timeless.... That's another league above adapters man.... I didn't know you were going that route. I can personally testify to either the FIIO Btr5, Qudelix 5k,or the IFi Go Blu... Either one of the 3 will blow away anything wireless you've used.... For sure. I personally like the Qudelix 5k the most for all the features and app but for strictly sound quality the IFi Go Blu is a monster. Don't get me wrong the BTR5 is every bit as good as the Qudelix but it is a hair larger, nobody other than me sees this as an issue though so SQ wisw the BTR5 and qudelix are neck and neck. I'm promise the BTR5 will drive easily the Timeless to full fidelity.


----------



## Ceeluh7

Alright fellas... I can't find anything on this set... It is a dual driver 1 DD, 1 BA unit. I have seen it on Amazon for quite awhile and simply have strayed away due to knowing nothing about it. Have any of you heard anything about this set? Kong- KX-H9000TW.


----------



## Phaethon

The Jojo said:


> It's been almost two years, and I've been happy with my Elite 75t ever since. But since this is a hobby and they're really starting to show their age I finally bought several fully wireless IEMs to find my buds for the next couple of years.
> 
> Turns out... I might go back to my trusted Jabras.
> 
> ...


I agree on the PI7! So close and yet so far… I loved listening to them but the app…. 😡


----------



## jant71 (Jan 12, 2022)

Ceeluh7 said:


> All good man... I don't get too caught up in codecs so long as what I'm listening to sounds good, however I would always prefer aptx over AAC. Oh well, I appreciate the help


Not the only way to go. The CKS50TW can't beat my ATH-Sport90BT for sound even with SBC only since they went with the higher quality DAC route.


Ceeluh7 said:


> Alright fellas... I can't find anything on this set... It is a dual driver 1 DD, 1 BA unit. I have seen it on Amazon for quite awhile and simply have strayed away due to knowing nothing about it. Have any of you heard anything about this set? Kong- KX-H9000TW.


Kong X was probably the first to make a hybrid TWS so they have experience and the issues back then were not with the sound but the connection. Just by the tech advancing plus the experience you would figure this would be worth a try and that they would be good. Again no features so they don't have much to do more than fit well and sound good and work w/o issues. Not a sure thing but not a true unknown. The risk assessment is yours in the end.


----------



## Ceeluh7

jant71 said:


> Not the only way to go. The CKS50TW can't beat my ATH-Sport90BT for sound even with SBC only since they went with the higher quality DAC route.
> 
> Kong X was probably the first to make a hybrid TWS so they have experience and the issues back then were not with the sound but the connection. Just by the tech advancing plus the experience you would figure this would be worth a try and that they would be good. Again no features so they don't have much to do more than fit well and sound good and work w/o issues. Not a sure thing but not a true unknown. The risk assessment is yours in the end.


About the Kong x.... Ya know I was thinking the same thing, I tried contacting kong-x for more info.... To no avail. Thank you for responding to the question. They have that iem shape that I like and bt 5.2, Aptx as well. As far as features, to be honest I look to sound quality first and everything else to me is secondary. I am thinking maybe just try this set.... Or..... I am really debating the jvc HA-FW1000T. That set is driving me nuts because I cannot find reviews but for some reviews from YouTube in which I can only translate the comment section. Lol.... Now I don't know if the Victor version is different from the US version but in the comments some did mention low volume on this set... That is what is giving me a pause on them. If they are anything like the jvc wired woodies I can at least imagine the sound sig and temperament but the low volume thing I can't get with. Lol... Sorry I just unloaded that on you man... Thank you for responding


----------



## erockg

Ceeluh7 said:


> About the Kong x.... Ya know I was thinking the same thing, I tried contacting kong-x for more info.... To no avail. Thank you for responding to the question. They have that iem shape that I like and bt 5.2, Aptx as well. As far as features, to be honest I look to sound quality first and everything else to me is secondary. I am thinking maybe just try this set.... Or..... I am really debating the jvc HA-FW1000T. That set is driving me nuts because I cannot find reviews but for some reviews from YouTube in which I can only translate the comment section. Lol.... Now I don't know if the Victor version is different from the US version but in the comments some did mention low volume on this set... That is what is giving me a pause on them. If they are anything like the jvc wired woodies I can at least imagine the sound sig and temperament but the low volume thing I can't get with. Lol... Sorry I just unloaded that on you man... Thank you for responding


To make matters worse for you, Amazon dropped the price further today: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B09LGGDQB...olid=1SBM040WIZBXS&psc=1&ref_=lv_ov_lig_dp_it


----------



## Ceeluh7

erockg said:


> To make matters worse for you, Amazon dropped the price further today: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B09LGGDQB...olid=1SBM040WIZBXS&psc=1&ref_=lv_ov_lig_dp_it


SOB! DUDE! Okay... I may just go with these.... Ergh! I am ready to be disappointed but.... For the good of the group...Lol... As I may be the only buyer in the Western World... Wth. $297....Here I was debating getting a few iems or a nice dac/amp but.... They just look nice. I'm seriously hoping that JVC didn't screw this up with another damn tws that has low volume! There are too many out there. I almost just want to get the Grado GT220 again and be happy as the volume was out of this world and the sound was full and wonderful... It did have flaws though, hence I don't have it. Anyways thanks for pointing that out man, choices.


----------



## erockg (Jan 12, 2022)

Ceeluh7 said:


> SOB! DUDE! Okay... I may just go with these.... Ergh! I am ready to be disappointed but.... For the good of the group...Lol... As I may be the only buyer in the Western World... Wth. $297....Here I was debating getting a few iems or a nice dac/amp but.... They just look nice. I'm seriously hoping that JVC didn't screw this up with another damn tws that has low volume! There are too many out there. I almost just want to get the Grado GT220 again and be happy as the volume was out of this world and the sound was full and wonderful... It did have flaws though, hence I don't have it. Anyways thanks for pointing that out man, choices.


I hear you dude.  I'm waiting it out for reviews.  Maybe you'll sway me.  I've streamlined my TWS collection down to only 3.  Noble Fokus, ATH- CKS50TW and the Marshall Motif ANC.  I liked the sound on the Grado too.  They had a weird deep fit for me.  Maybe I should revisit them.  Been really immersed in my IEMs right now with BT adapters.


----------



## cytoSiN

Look what you guys made me do...


----------



## erockg (Jan 12, 2022)

cytoSiN said:


> Look what you guys made me do...


https://tenor.com/pbsQ.gif


----------



## TK33

The Jojo said:


> It's been almost two years, and I've been happy with my Elite 75t ever since. But since this is a hobby and they're really starting to show their age I finally bought several fully wireless IEMs to find my buds for the next couple of years.
> 
> Turns out... I might go back to my trusted Jabras.
> 
> ...


Agree on ambient and the app.  I rarely use the app (don't even have it installed on all my phones) and so don't use ambient.  Also found the volume to be too low when using the 3.5 mm connection to the case on some Delta flights I took last year so I never really use that either.  I find you need to keep ANC on to cancel out foot thumping noises but otherwise ANC is mediocre at best when on a plane or train (not much of an ANC person so I am fine with that).  I can still hear all announcements when on the train, which works for me.  Note, I also listen at pretty low volume generally and they are too loud for me above 20-30%.

I pre-ordered at launch and I am still really enjoying the fit,comfort, call quality, and the sound of the PI7s.  If B&W improved the app and ambient toggle, I would buy that newer version, although I would probably not rush to buy the next time around since I am on my third set.  I had to RMA twice before I got one that could get through a song without skipping. While I would love an equalizer, I get the sense that will never happen with a B&W headphone or TWS.


----------



## Ceeluh7

erockg said:


> I hear you dude.  I'm waiting it out for reviews.  Maybe you'll sway me.  I've streamlined my TWS collection down to only 3.  Noble Fokus, ATH- CKS50TW and the Marshall Motif ANC.  I liked the sound on the Grado too.  They had a weird deep fit for me.  Maybe I should revisit them.  Been really immersed in my IEMs right now with BT adapters.


You already know I'm in the same boat as you with iems... Rightfully so. I just want one top teir tws. I have 12 sets of them and none I consider top teir. Maybe the Lypertek Z7... They sound pretty damn good but have their own oddities. I truly loved the sound of the grados....so full and just covered the whole spectrum from deep sub bass to pretty nice highs for a tws.


----------



## Ceeluh7

TK33 said:


> Agree on ambient and the app.  I rarely use the app (don't even have it installed on all my phones) and so don't use ambient.  Also found the volume to be too low when using the 3.5 mm connection to the case on some Delta flights I took last year so I never really use that either.  I find you need to keep ANC on to cancel out foot thumping noises but otherwise ANC is mediocre at best when on a plane or train (not much of an ANC person so I am fine with that).  I can still hear all announcements when on the train, which works for me.  Note, I also listen at pretty low volume generally and they are too loud for me above 20-30%.
> 
> I pre-ordered at launch and I am still really enjoying the fit,comfort, call quality, and the sound of the PI7s.  If B&W improved the app and ambient toggle, I would buy that newer version, although I would probably not rush to buy the next time around since I am on my third set.  I had to RMA twice before I got one that could get through a song without skipping. While I would love an equalizer, I get the sense that will never happen with a B&W headphone or TWS.


OK so you have the pi7.... You prob have already stated it but are you using android or ios? Just wondering because I read in a forum somewhere of volume differences between devices and even between music players (poweramp, uapp etc.). Is there any truth to that, is it another low volume set?


----------



## BooleanBones

TK33 said:


> Agree on ambient and the app.  I rarely use the app (don't even have it installed on all my phones) and so don't use ambient.  Also found the volume to be too low when using the 3.5 mm connection to the case on some Delta flights I took last year so I never really use that either.  I find you need to keep ANC on to cancel out foot thumping noises but otherwise ANC is mediocre at best when on a plane or train (not much of an ANC person so I am fine with that).  I can still hear all announcements when on the train, which works for me.  Note, I also listen at pretty low volume generally and they are too loud for me above 20-30%.
> 
> I pre-ordered at launch and I am still really enjoying the fit,comfort, call quality, and the sound of the PI7s.  If B&W improved the app and ambient toggle, I would buy that newer version, although I would probably not rush to buy the next time around since I am on my third set.  I had to RMA twice before I got one that could get through a song without skipping. While I would love an equalizer, I get the sense that will never happen with a B&W headphone or TWS.


Yeah, B&W is quite upfront about not providing an EQ. I don't think they will ever give one either.


----------



## TK33 (Jan 12, 2022)

Ceeluh7 said:


> OK so you have the pi7.... You prob have already stated it but are you using android or ios? Just wondering because I read in a forum somewhere of volume differences between devices and even between music players (poweramp, uapp etc.). Is there any truth to that, is it another low volume set?


Android (aptX adaptive on OnePlus 8T and LG V60 and aptX HD on Pixel 6).  I also use a Windows laptop PC for Zoom calls once in a while, although the Galaxy Buds Live are still my go to for Zoom and phone calls.

If on Apple, I would not recommend the PI7 based on the same user experience that you refer to, which I have read as well.


----------



## erockg

Ceeluh7 said:


> You already know I'm in the same boat as you with iems... Rightfully so. I just want one top teir tws. I have 12 sets of them and none I consider top teir. Maybe the Lypertek Z7... They sound pretty damn good but have their own oddities. I truly loved the sound of the grados....so full and just covered the whole spectrum from deep sub bass to pretty nice highs for a tws.


I had the Z7 but if I were you, go for the Fokus.  Granted, mine are not getting enough love here for obvious reasons, but man, they are so good.  Z7s are great and have the same exact internals of the Noble Falcon Pro, but are tuned differently.  Personally, I prefer the Wizards tuning.


----------



## cytoSiN

So actual comments on Solaris + TW2:

Fit:  The Solaris lines up well with the TW2's contours and fits my smallish ears pretty well, no complaints there, although I'll need a much longer listening session to speak to this one.

Ambient:  I love this already.  At high volume it's still not great for a conversation, but the fact that I can hear myself and others AT ALL is a major step in the right direction that I'm thrilled to add to Solaris SQ.

Sound:  So far I'm not noticing much of a difference.  Maybe slightly narrower soundstage and with ambient on everything feels little more pinched?  So far worth it for the tradeoff in features.

Usability:  Amazing.  Ambient with 2 button presses right on the unit, no need for any app (although I'll play with that later).

BT:  Not so great on my DX220 with flac audio, but that's likely on the DX220.  BT great from my PC with any size/quality audio.  Played the same flac I was using on my DX220 with zero BT issues.

Case:  The case is great, fits the Solaris just fine, although I might add a thin piece of felt on top so the plastic isn't rubbing the metal cases on the Solaris.  Love that it shows the number of charges remaining and has a light to show status of the TW2 without having to open the case.  Wish it charged wirelessly but I'll survive.

I'll follow up later once I get into testing with my phone and some Zoom meetings on phone and PC.


----------



## scubaphish (Jan 12, 2022)

cytoSiN said:


> So actual comments on Solaris + TW2:
> 
> Fit:  The Solaris lines up well with the TW2's contours and fits my smallish ears pretty well, no complaints there, although I'll need a much longer listening session to speak to this one.
> 
> ...


I’m very excited to hear they line up nicely. Hopefully that design carries over to the Onyx I’m on backorder for

As for calls/zoom with TW2, I think you’ll be pleased. I’ve had very clear conversations with no complaints from anyone


----------



## Ceeluh7

erockg said:


> I had the Z7 but if I were you, go for the Fokus.  Granted, mine are not getting enough love here for obvious reasons, but man, they are so good.  Z7s are great and have the same exact internals of the Noble Falcon Pro, but are tuned differently.  Personally, I prefer the Wizards tuning.


I agree, however, again I am in the same predicament where all my funds are in Amazon Gift Cards and Amazon doesn't sell the set I want the most... Noble Audio Fokus Pro. So I have to settle, OH well... There is certainly worse problems to have.


----------



## jant71

Deal for the Earfun Free Mini - $12.99 before tax.
https://www.amazon.com/Wireless-Ear...08194&pd_rd_wg=UtGsR&pd_rd_i=B09JGBXBC3&psc=1


----------



## dmphile

Guess what came early...


----------



## Ceeluh7

erockg said:


> Sooooo... these Final ZE3000 just arrived.  I have to admit, I thought they wouldn't fit me.  But they fit me perfectly.  Weird because they are so odd looking.  The case is insanely light and about the size of a Jabra 75T case.  No wireless charging.  They packed some nice sub-bass in these.  Literally just popped them in, but so far not bad.  No app yet but when you click through to the site it says the English version is still being built.  Lame, but I didn't even know there was an app coming, so happy accident?


So... What was your final consensus about the final audio ze3000? I'm looking at those too. I'm not sold on the jvc's... Just have a bad feeling about them and so I'm trying to get an idea about some other sets.


----------



## Ceeluh7

dmphile said:


> Guess what came early...


Awesome.... Let's pray you don't have the issues. I absolutley am in love with these. They are sooo nice. I'm telling you, the dac inside has very nice tonality, I have yet to put an iem on them that didn't sound good... Good for you man


----------



## erockg (Jan 12, 2022)

Ceeluh7 said:


> So... What was your final consensus about the final audio ze3000? I'm looking at those too. I'm not sold on the jvc's... Just have a bad feeling about them and so I'm trying to get an idea about some other sets.


They're fine.  I'm going to sell them though.  I've used them two or three times for short bursts and they have zero features.  Sound is nice, clean, but I don't think they're worth the price.  I think they would be if Final would release their app, but who knows when that is coming.


----------



## turbobb

Ceeluh7 said:


> If you want a cheap iem with them that have a similar sound to the galaxy buds pro I would probably say the Moondrop SSP. However those may be a hair too much for the Az10 to drive. Maybe just go with the KZ budget lineup like the KZ EDX Pro, which is more V-shaped and it is a bit warm of neutral and I can confirm they are fantastic for budget or kz dq6 which are less warm and need time to burn in, they triple dynamic driver lil beasts, KZ Zex is a good set as well as the cca cra. Honestly there is alot to choose from in the budget price point which are pretty nice, these sets are all under $30. If you could push a bit more I personally really enjoy the Tripowin TC01 and the Tripowin Mele, both can be found for about $40-50. There are a bunch more... What is your budget... I should've prob asked that to begin with


Thx a lot for the recommendations but it seems the non-KZ recommendations use classic 2 pin whereas the AZ10 is QDC (I'm a total newb when it comes to pinned IEMs so I'm not sure if I got that correct). On a whim I went with the ZAS as it was on their list of compatible IEMs but I might regret it as one reviewer described it as sibilant. Will report back how that goes.


----------



## Ceeluh7

turbobb said:


> Thx a lot for the recommendations but it seems the non-KZ recommendations use classic 2 pin whereas the AZ10 is QDC (I'm a total newb when it comes to pinned IEMs so I'm not sure if I got that correct). On a whim I went with the ZAS as it was on their list of compatible IEMs but I might regret it as one reviewer described it as sibilant. Will report back how that goes.


I freaking love the ZAS. Good choice man. One of my favs. The bass is wonderful. Anyways, so as far as the connection..... This is entirely up to you but what I did was take an exact knife and just cut the little hood away on the connection ends and..... Now I can attach it to any 2 pin. Easy to cut away as well. But... If you already have the kz ZAS then awesome... No cutting needed. Ya to me the ZAS punch above thier price so very well, and they are a really nice looking set, built really well. Cool man


----------



## Caipirina

Does anyone have those Amazfit Powerbuds? I am somewhat intrigued, they remind me a lot of my very first TWS, the Jabras with HR monitoring. Too bad though (as I found in one review on wearable) they do not act as an ext. hR monitor (e.g. to communicate with my garmin) anyways, detachable earhooks is a fun concept. AND after coupons I could get them for 32.99$ ….
Verdict?


----------



## LordToneeus

jant71 said:


> Deal for the Earfun Free Mini - $12.99 before tax.
> https://www.amazon.com/Wireless-Ear...08194&pd_rd_wg=UtGsR&pd_rd_i=B09JGBXBC3&psc=1


Purchased. Dang you. Actually, my 12 year old should love these. Couldn’t pass them up at $12.99!


----------



## dmphile (Jan 12, 2022)

Ceeluh7 said:


> Awesome.... Let's pray you don't have the issues. I absolutley am in love with these. They are sooo nice. I'm telling you, the dac inside has very nice tonality, I have yet to put an iem on them that didn't sound good... Good for you man


OK - I have the Timeless connected to the UTWS5 so this is gonna be an interesting observation. I will preface that I do not consider myself an audiophile by any means but let's just say I am above average and am more critical about the sound signature that I really enjoy so I will do my best to describe in lamens terms what I am experiencing.

First off, I plugged the Timeless into my FiiO M7 DAP with the physical cord and jumped right into a few my favourite playlists just to see how it performs with a physical cable. It sounded good but a little bright for my taste and it didn't quite have the same level of warmth that I typically enjoy.  The tonality is very pleasing to my ears but the trebles (highs) were a little too shrill and harsh for me. The mids are beautiful though and very detailed, clear and vocals are not lost in the mix. Not as recessed as others have claimed (to my ears at least) The mid-bass was 'ok' and I would say it's the same for the sub-bass.

Moving on to connecting them to the UTWS5 with Spinfits CP360 XL tips and man, this thing really came to life. I did not expect the sound signature to change so much. The fit is much better for my ears with these spinfits and suddenly the sound is more engaging, thumping in the sub-bass, warmer and just makes me want to start head bobbing to all music genres. The only other point of reference I have are the B&O EQ's so I'm not quite in the territory of having a ton of IEM's to compare but I've had my fair share of basically trying all the well known TWS in the market including the big names PI7's, XM4's, AZ60's, EQ's, LP3, Lypertek Z3s, CA MT/1+, etc...and this is the most clean and detailed set I've listened to so far. I don't' know much about whether a 'burn-in' period will help these sound better but I'm thinking now of returning the EQ's because I think I prefer these overall over the EQ's even in basic functionality and quality of sound. The EQ's sound more warm and with slightly better soundstage/imaging but as an overall package, the Timeless/UTWS5 is pretty phenomenal.


----------



## LordToneeus

Where my budget shoppers at?? Got the rose gold KZ Zex Pro (x Crinacle) and paired them with my AZ09. They sound great! I went ahead and ordered the AZ09 Pro from China. I was sorely tempted to get them from Amazon for delivery Saturday, but decided against paying a $15 impatient idiot tax (not that there’s anything wrong with that!).


----------



## Ceeluh7

dmphile said:


> OK - I have the Timeless connected to the UTWS5 so this is gonna be an interesting observation. I will preface that I do not consider myself an audiophile by any means but let's just say I am above average and am more critical about the sound signature that I really enjoy so I will do my best to describe in lamens terms what I am experiencing.
> 
> First off, I plugged the Timeless into my FiiO M7 DAP with the physical cord and jumped right into a few my favourite playlists just to see how it performs with a physical cable. It sounded good but a little bright for my taste and it didn't quite have the same level of warmth that I typically enjoy.  The tonality is very pleasing to my ears but the trebles (highs) were a little too shrill and harsh for me. The mids are beautiful though and very detailed, clear and vocals are not lost in the mix. Not as recessed as others have claimed (to my ears at least) The mid-bass was 'ok' and I would say it's the same for the sub-bass.
> 
> Moving on to connecting them to the UTWS5 with Spinfits CP360 XL tips and man, this thing really came to life. I did not expect the sound signature to change so much. The fit is much better for my ears with these spinfits and suddenly the sound is more engaging, thumping in the sub-bass, warmer and just makes me want to start head bobbing to all music genres. The only other point of reference I have are the B&O EQ's so I'm not quite in the territory of having a ton of IEM's to compare but I've had my fair share of basically trying all the TWS in the market including the big names PI7's, XM4's, AZ60's, EQ's, LP3, Lypertek Z3s, CA MT/1+, etc...and this is the most detailed set I've listened to so far. I don't' know much about whether a 'burn-in' period will help these sound better but I'm thinking now of returning the EQ's because I think I prefer these overall over the EQ's even in basic functionality and quality of sound. The EQ's sound more warm and with slightly better soundstage/imaging but as an overall package, the Timeless/UTWS5 is pretty phenomenal.


Yes.... That is exactly what I've been preaching about the utws5. It just so happens that you put a very resolving and detail heavy set on a dac/amp combo that synergizes well with alot of different sound signatures. That may seem simplified but truthfully the Timeless don't replay perfect on everything. For wireless adapters they just nailed it. It is a high quality dac/amp in a form that just makes sense. I think the only problem... Which isn't a problem is the huge case... I can't really just take them anywhere all the time. I love the Fiio adapters around the house, outside, chilling watching stuff on my phone or walks. I'm very glad it worked out for you. Dude I promise I have just a ton of iems and all different sound sigs and what I am astonished by is the fact that they all sound good on the utws5, even the 3 to an extent but definently more so on the 5. Maybe the added punch and the fact that it is hitting well wider on the spectrum... Idk. I spent a bit last night really trying to find a difference and a few tracks it became evident to me that the utws5 just has better resolution, to put it in lazy terms it is just more dynamic. The sub bass digs deeper while the highs reach further yet done tend to get shrill. The Mids aren't tucked way back on them... It's nice. I like where fiio is headed. However a couple friends on here have had issues and I do think they are isolated issues but I Def think you play the lottery with the utws5. Here's to hoping for firmware updates to get out the issues. Timeless is an awesome set and I can only imaging it sounds great on the 5.


----------



## Ceeluh7

LordToneeus said:


> Where my budget shoppers at?? Got the rose gold KZ Zex Pro (x Crinacle) and paired them with my AZ09. They sound great! I went ahead and ordered the AZ09 Pro from China. I was sorely tempted to get them from Amazon for delivery Saturday, but decided against paying a $15 impatient idiot tax (not that there’s anything wrong with that!).


I budget shop alot. People don't get it that budget iems nowadays are freaking awesome. Sometimes they surely can sound better than the pricier sets. It doesn't seem right but it's true. I actually just ordered the Zex pro. I was using the regular Zex on the az09 pro but went with the hidizs ms2 instead. It seems the bright nature of the MS2 reacts well to the az09 pro. That's awesome man, Crinacle did a good job on that set I hear


----------



## dmphile (Jan 12, 2022)

Ceeluh7 said:


> Yes.... That is exactly what I've been preaching about the utws5. It just so happens that you put a very resolving and detail heavy set on a dac/amp combo that synergizes well with alot of different sound signatures. That may seem simplified but truthfully the Timeless don't replay perfect on everything. For wireless adapters they just nailed it. It is a high quality dac/amp in a form that just makes sense. I think the only problem... Which isn't a problem is the huge case... I can't really just take them anywhere all the time. I love the Fiio adapters around the house, outside, chilling watching stuff on my phone or walks. I'm very glad it worked out for you. Dude I promise I have just a ton of iems and all different sound sigs and what I am astonished by is the fact that they all sound good on the utws5, even the 3 to an extent but definently more so on the 5. Maybe the added punch and the fact that it is hitting well wider on the spectrum... Idk. I spent a bit last night really trying to find a difference and a few tracks it became evident to me that the utws5 just has better resolution, to put it in lazy terms it is just more dynamic. The sub bass digs deeper while the highs reach further yet done tend to get shrill. The Mids aren't tucked way back on them... It's nice. I like where fiio is headed. However a couple friends on here have had issues and I do think they are isolated issues but I Def think you play the lottery with the utws5. Here's to hoping for firmware updates to get out the issues. Timeless is an awesome set and I can only imaging it sounds great on the 5.


I agree, everything you're describing is very much what I'm experiencing so far with the combo. Not to mention that I already have a FiiO DAP so the combination altogether is just beautiful. I haven't spent a ton of time with them since they just arrived today but even now, as I am listening to some of my favourite tracks, it's so clean, dynamic and engaging! The sub-bass is phenomenal if you get a proper seal, it's just delicious. I don't want to take these off! I haven't had any issues (yet) with the UTWS5 so knock on wood my pair isn't part of any QC issues. I can honestly say that this is the type of sound signature I just adore and my first experience with Planars. If it had a little better depth/imaging/soundstage these would more than likely be my end game. The more I listen (as I'm typing this) it is just outstanding....holy smokes haha. Totally worth it. I paid $247 CAD taxes in for the Timeless from TTAudio.ca and $192 CAD for the UTWS5 from Headphone Bar if any Canadians are interested/curious


----------



## LordToneeus (Jan 12, 2022)

dmphile said:


> Guess what came early...


Can't wait to hear what you think!

*Edit:  sorry, posted too soon!


----------



## Tommy C (Jan 12, 2022)

Caipirina said:


> Does anyone have those Amazfit Powerbuds? I am somewhat intrigued, they remind me a lot of my very first TWS, the Jabras with HR monitoring. Too bad though (as I found in one review on wearable) they do not act as an ext. hR monitor (e.g. to communicate with my garmin) anyways, detachable earhooks is a fun concept. AND after coupons I could get them for 32.99$ ….
> Verdict?



If you're referring the Jabra Elite Sport, I still have them. The V2. Battery isn't as good especially after having them for 4 years but they're built like little tanks and the app with the sport tracker and HR monitor are superb. I definitely got my money's worth. 
Jabra's still selling them too.


----------



## paddler57

Ceeluh7 said:


> If you want a cheap iem with them that have a similar sound to the galaxy buds pro I would probably say the Moondrop SSP. However those may be a hair too much for the Az10 to drive. Maybe just go with the KZ budget lineup like the KZ EDX Pro, which is more V-shaped and it is a bit warm of neutral and I can confirm they are fantastic for budget or kz dq6 which are less warm and need time to burn in, they triple dynamic driver lil beasts, KZ Zex is a good set as well as the cca cra. Honestly there is alot to choose from in the budget price point which are pretty nice, these sets are all under $30. If you could push a bit more I personally really enjoy the Tripowin TC01 and the Tripowin Mele, both can be found for about $40-50. There are a bunch more... What is your budget... I should've prob asked that to begin with


Do you or anyone have the SBC specs for the 10's? I K ow SBC is much more capable and for some God awful reason everyone has dumbed it down to where it sounds like crap. So if KZ is gojng to use it and hype it up, I'd like to see the specs to compare.

In the meantime, I just bought the TRN BT30 and am pairing them with the ZS10pro.

I also have the Buds Pro (and Plus), ColorBuds 2, Elite 75t Active, and KZ ZKS. That's it for the better sounding buds.


----------



## Ceeluh7

paddler57 said:


> Do you or anyone have the SBC specs for the 10's? I K ow SBC is much more capable and for some God awful reason everyone has dumbed it down to where it sounds like crap. So if KZ is gojng to use it and hype it up, I'd like to see the specs to compare.
> 
> In the meantime, I just bought the TRN BT30 and am pairing them with the ZS10pro.
> 
> I also have the Buds Pro (and Plus), ColorBuds 2, Elite 75t Active, and KZ ZKS. That's it for the better sounding buds.


I'm sorry, are you referring to the sbc codec? This does have sbc and AAC. I actually thought it had aptx but was shown here that they neglected to put aptx on these adapters. I wouldn't worry though, AAC and even sbc in some situations sounds perfectly fine. I'm not sure if that even came close to answering your question, I think you were asking about sbc codec


----------



## 3Putter

Ceeluh7 said:


> Dude the BTR5 will most certainly open up the Timeless.... That's another league above adapters man.... I didn't know you were going that route. I can personally testify to either the FIIO Btr5, Qudelix 5k,or the IFi Go Blu... Either one of the 3 will blow away anything wireless you've used.... For sure. I personally like the Qudelix 5k the most for all the features and app but for strictly sound quality the IFi Go Blu is a monster. Don't get me wrong the BTR5 is every bit as good as the Qudelix but it is a hair larger, nobody other than me sees this as an issue though so SQ wisw the BTR5 and qudelix are neck and neck. I'm promise the BTR5 will drive easily the Timeless to full fidelity.


I have the EarStudio ES100, think it's pretty decent. I'm thinking about BTR5 or the Qudelix. Are either that much better sounding than the ES100? I find the ES100 app just fine, lots of flexibility and the EQ is great. I've had for five years and one year it sat in my truck's glove compartment freezing/thawing throughout the winter. Still works terrific. If there are sound quality gains I'll jump but it's six of one maybe not...


----------



## SynaestheticA

Hey what's up True Wireless Addicts? Haven't been on in a while but just recently got these bad bubbas. After figuring out that i probably use the Original Mini's more than the N6 pro2 (For comfort and convenience sake, I couldn't halp myself but pick these up. Full review coming soon.






Since I haven't been on since September, what's the latest and greatest TWS out there atm?


----------



## Ceeluh7 (Jan 12, 2022)

3Putter said:


> I have the EarStudio ES100, think it's pretty decent. I'm thinking about BTR5 or the Qudelix. Are either that much better sounding than the ES100? I find the ES100 app just fine, lots of flexibility and the EQ is great. I've had for five years and one year it sat in my truck's glove compartment freezing/thawing throughout the winter. Still works terrific. If there are sound quality gains I'll jump but it's six of one maybe not...


The Es100 is perfectly fine. It has a bit less power output then the others mentioned and yours is probably the first version of the es100. I can remember upgrading to the BTR5 from the es100. The first thing you notice is build quality. The app is better than the BTR5 on the es100. Though the sound quality will be an upgrade on the btr5 with the dual Sabre es918... I think.... Dac and just a more balanced sound. Es100 is bt 4.2 to the BTR5 5.0 which does help as well. Between these two I think the BTR5 is a clear upgrade, is it enough for you... Idk? Between the BTR5 and qudelix it is like the Qudelix was an upgrade across the board. Smaller, great build quality, amazing and I mean amazing bluetooth connection, it never skips or sputters and you can really stretch how far this lil dude can go. It is convenient with the clip built in it. The power is around the same as the BTR5 yet the sound seems a bit refined. The app on the Qudelix is imo the best of these 3 so far as well. They also constantly update the Qudelix, and I mean constantly. I feel every other week there is an update. Now, if pure sound quality and form factor mean the most to you then I would say to pay $200 and get the IFi Go Blu. The go blu is just a powerhouse with an awesome form factor and built wonderfully. I'm assuming you aren't looking too hard at that one so between the es100, btr5 and qudelix I think that the Qudelix is a pretty large upgrade. I don't know if it is worth it to you and your asking a person who bought all of these mentioned so..... Lol...i got nothin. I do think the es100 is a fine device which does exactly what you want it to do... The BTR5 and the Qudelix are just a bit better... To me.


----------



## Ceeluh7 (Jan 12, 2022)

SynaestheticA said:


> Hey what's up True Wireless Addicts? Haven't been on in a while but just recently got these bad bubbas. After figuring out that i probably use the Original Mini's more than the N6 pro2 (For comfort and convenience sake, I couldn't halp myself but pick these up. Full review coming soon.
> 
> 
> 
> Since I haven't been on since September, what's the latest and greatest TWS out there atm?


Yes... Nice... I was just checking about 20 different Asian reviews trying to figure out if I should get this.... Is this the Nuarl mini 2se? Or is this the mini?


Ehhh... Nevermind I zoomed into your picture.... Yes I'd love to hear how you feel these sound. I was looking at them on Amazon and they look nice.


----------



## guitarizt (Jan 12, 2022)

Ceeluh7 said:


> Dude the BTR5 will most certainly open up the Timeless.... That's another league above adapters man.... I didn't know you were going that route. I can personally testify to either the FIIO Btr5, Qudelix 5k,or the IFi Go Blu... Either one of the 3 will blow away anything wireless you've used.... For sure. I personally like the Qudelix 5k the most for all the features and app but for strictly sound quality the IFi Go Blu is a monster. Don't get me wrong the BTR5 is every bit as good as the Qudelix but it is a hair larger, nobody other than me sees this as an issue though so SQ wisw the BTR5 and qudelix are neck and neck. I'm promise the BTR5 will drive easily the Timeless to full fidelity.


Yeah, I should have spent more time researching. The day I got it, I found out the qudelix is better and cheaper. The btr3 is half the price of the 5 and prob would work. I'm just glad I got it, and overall they're all fairly cheap. Also lucked out it worked fine with linux.

I'm surprised how small the btr5 is. Got it mainly cause giz audio said he uses it so didn't wanna spend hours researching. You're right, wow the sound is great. _Big_ diff between my pc's headphone jack and btr5, and I __haate__ using the timeless with the utws3. Sounds arguably worse than my galaxy pros.

Finally the timeless sound how'd I'd expect $500 iems to sound, but I haven't heard many iems yet. I have to wait a couple more weeks or so to get my balanced cable. My arias come in about two weeks as well, and I'm expecting to use those a lot with the utws3's.


----------



## Ceeluh7

guitarizt said:


> Yeah, I should have spent more time researching. The day I got it, I found out the qudelix is better and cheaper. The btr3 is half the price of the 5 and prob would work. I'm just glad I got it, and overall they're all fairly cheap. Also lucked out it worked fine with linux.
> 
> I'm surprised how small the btr5 is. Got it mainly cause giz audio said he uses it so didn't wanna spend hours researching. You're right, wow the sound is great. _Big_ diff between my pc's headphone jack and btr5, and I __haate__ using the timeless with the utws3. Sounds arguably worse than my galaxy pros.
> 
> Finally the timeless sound how'd I'd expect $500 iems to sound, but I haven't heard many iems yet. I have to wait a couple more weeks or so to get my balanced cable. My arias come in about two weeks as well, and I'm expecting to use those a lot with the utws3's.


Ya for 75% of my iems I use balanced cables and to me for most iems it is worth it. It seems to open em up a bit by just adding more power. I'm sure it'll help the Timeless. The Aria as well does very good with scaling using better sources and more power but I do recall them sounding fine off of the Utws3. The Aria is just a good set to have. Non fatiguing with nice vocals and just a generally nice sound all together.


----------



## paddler57

Ceeluh7 said:


> I'm sorry, are you referring to the sbc codec? This does have sbc and AAC. I actually thought it had aptx but was shown here that they neglected to put aptx on these adapters. I wouldn't worry though, AAC and even sbc in some situations sounds perfectly fine. I'm not sure if that even came close to answering your question, I think you were asking about sbc codec


Ha.. No. My point was, at its best, SBC is not really far behind regular aptx. SBC caps out at 328kbs. Aptx goes to 352kbs. Not the greatest leap. So if they're using SBC to its fullest and using quality drivers then they can sound better than aptxHD on buds with worse dricers/tuning so to speak. I always compared it to my ancient flagship Yamaha receiver pushing older 7.1 standard DD/DTS at 160wpc pushing my Paridgm Reference compared to this guy's little Denon/Polk big box setup where his Denon was low end junk but with the HD codecs pushing his Polks. Didn't believe me when I said I'd take my 18yr old setup over his any day. Told him to pick his movie of choice give a listen at home and come on over and take a listen. He was not all smiles not even halfway through the opening scene of Private Ryan. I'm like, sorry to burst your bubble.

The old problem with SBC was nobody focused on SQ. It wasn't it's purpose at the time, and I don't think we ever got the full 328kbs from old buds and phones. Hence everyone crapped on it for so long.


----------



## darveniza

Phaethon said:


> I agree on the PI7! So close and yet so far… I loved listening to them but the app…. 😡


But the Sony call quality kills that other set. I just use them to watch moves as ANC is great


----------



## dmphile

Guys, been listening to this pair all night and I cannot express how amazing the timeless pair with the UTWS5. With instrumental genres like jazz and classical, the detail and clarity is outstanding. Hearing things I never heard before and makes me want to listen to everything again. Giving me all the feels again. The one gripe I do have is alittle on the fit which is just my big dumbo ears and canals. The Spinfits help a little but the shape of the timeless makes it difficult to get a consistent seal without creating a little bit of soreness.


----------



## Caipirina

SynaestheticA said:


> Hey what's up True Wireless Addicts? Haven't been on in a while but just recently got these bad bubbas. After figuring out that i probably use the Original Mini's more than the N6 pro2 (For comfort and convenience sake, I couldn't halp myself but pick these up. Full review coming soon.
> 
> 
> 
> Since I haven't been on since September, what's the latest and greatest TWS out there atm?


How are they different from the previous model? I kept circling the minis for a long time but could not get myself to buy them. Thinking about some other Japan only models, like Aviot


----------



## HaliHarry

darveniza said:


> But the Sony call quality kills that other set. I just use them to watch moves as ANC is great


i already have az60 and intend to buy more fw1000t. I absolutely love the bass on the az60 that I can't find on higher-end models like the Momentum TW2 or Gemini. It's deep enough to create an epic atmosphere that still sounds relaxing. can i ask if the bass quality on fw1000t is better than az60? thank you very much


----------



## Ceeluh7

guitarizt said:


> Yeah, I should have spent more time researching. The day I got it, I found out the qudelix is better and cheaper. The btr3 is half the price of the 5 and prob would work. I'm just glad I got it, and overall they're all fairly cheap. Also lucked out it worked fine with linux.
> 
> I'm surprised how small the btr5 is. Got it mainly cause giz audio said he uses it so didn't wanna spend hours researching. You're right, wow the sound is great. _Big_ diff between my pc's headphone jack and btr5, and I __haate__ using the timeless with the utws3. Sounds arguably worse than my galaxy pros.
> 
> Finally the timeless sound how'd I'd expect $500 iems to sound, but I haven't heard many iems yet. I have to wait a couple more weeks or so to get my balanced cable. My arias come in about two weeks as well, and I'm expecting to use those a lot with the utws3's.


Ya know... It is crazy but you are now the 2nd person to tell me the Timeless sounds like crap on the Utws3... However I have now heard 3 people tell me the Timeless sounds absolutely amazing with the utws5! That is the difference between the two units. The utws5 just works well and that is the difference between the dac within the chip on the Utws3 and the dac built in to the adapters on the utws5. The only reason I am pointing this out is I got a message on Facebook about it this morning... Crazy. Anyways, ya the BTR5 is not much of a downgrade from qudelix man... At all. I do like qudelix more but I'm sure you can find plenty of folks who enjoy the BTR5 more. Truthfully I still use the BTR5 often as well... Mostly in the office I use it and it brings out the best in almost any iem. You should really be enjoying it with the timeless


----------



## guitarizt (Jan 13, 2022)

Ceeluh7 said:


> Ya know... It is crazy but you are now the 2nd person to tell me the Timeless sounds like crap on the Utws3... However I have now heard 3 people tell me the Timeless sounds absolutely amazing with the utws5! That is the difference between the two units. The utws5 just works well and that is the difference between the dac within the chip on the Utws3 and the dac built in to the adapters on the utws5. The only reason I am pointing this out is I got a message on Facebook about it this morning... Crazy. Anyways, ya the BTR5 is not much of a downgrade from qudelix man... At all. I do like qudelix more but I'm sure you can find plenty of folks who enjoy the BTR5 more. Truthfully I still use the BTR5 often as well... Mostly in the office I use it and it brings out the best in almost any iem. You should really be enjoying it with the timeless


Hmm, interesting. I might try to return the utws3's if they don't sound good with the arias. The price is so good though so hopefully they work.

I'm skeptical how well the btr5 will sound over bt. Not it's fault. Hopefully lossless bt is more prevalent in 2-3 years. I'll prob bite on the airpod pro 2's if they have lossless.

What gear would you recommend buying in general and are you enjoying lately? Seems like we like the same stuff, and I'm still trying to learn all this stuff.


----------



## erockg

Ceeluh7 said:


> Ya know... It is crazy but you are now the 2nd person to tell me the Timeless sounds like crap on the Utws3... However I have now heard 3 people tell me the Timeless sounds absolutely amazing with the utws5! That is the difference between the two units. The utws5 just works well and that is the difference between the dac within the chip on the Utws3 and the dac built in to the adapters on the utws5. The only reason I am pointing this out is I got a message on Facebook about it this morning... Crazy. Anyways, ya the BTR5 is not much of a downgrade from qudelix man... At all. I do like qudelix more but I'm sure you can find plenty of folks who enjoy the BTR5 more. Truthfully I still use the BTR5 often as well... Mostly in the office I use it and it brings out the best in almost any iem. You should really be enjoying it with the timeless


I don't know man, might be all the luck of the draw.  I got the 2 Pin 3s yesterday for my Moondrop Variations and they are effin awesome.  Better than the Vs on the MMCX 5s with an adapter.  Maybe my old ears suck or I'm still dreaming.


----------



## Ceeluh7

guitarizt said:


> Hmm, interesting. I might try to return the utws3's if they don't sound good with the arias. The price is so good though so hopefully they work.
> 
> I'm skeptical how well the btr5 will sound over bt. Not it's fault. Hopefully lossless bt is more prevalent in 2-3 years. I'll prob bite on the airpod pro 2's if they have lossless.
> 
> What gear would you recommend buying in general and are you enjoying lately? Seems like we like the same stuff, and I'm still trying to learn all this stuff.


I am all. Over the IFi Go Blu and I pair it with my TRI I3 Pro's.... Also I love the Fiio fh3 with the IFi Go Blu or the Qudelix. I have a single ended 7n Pure copper cable on it and it just sounds so amazing to me. I used to use spc (silver plated copper) on the FH3 and I liked it but throw that pure copper on it and wow... So nice. With this set up I would take it over sets $300 more. I have been listening alot over those gears. Or a few times last week I sat down to test out the Fiio/Jade Audio Ka3 dongle dac.... What a beast... So nice. Trying to put a review together comparing it to the Shanling Ua2. Anyways, I can't seem to put down the IFi Go Blu. Such a robust and full sound all the way around... Just very nice. At work I primarily listen to the Fiio Utws5 and the kz az09 Pro attached to different iems...i don't have a top tier tws so I just haven't been going that route though I would love to, so, I ended up purchasing again the Grado GT220 just because it sounded so amazing to me. No features just sound.


----------



## Ceeluh7

erockg said:


> I don't know man, might be all the luck of the draw.  I got the 2 Pin 3s yesterday for my Moondrop Variations and they are effin awesome.  Better than the Vs on the MMCX 5s with an adapter.  Maybe my old ears suck or I'm still dreaming.


That's crazy.... A wise man told me it's all about synergy. Not everything sounds good with everything. I can't take anything away from the 3's...now you have me thinking, maybe I'll have a lil fun and a/b the 5 and 3 with a few sets. I know if you say it's better than it's better. It is however the iem pairs with the onboard dac...


----------



## erockg

Ceeluh7 said:


> That's crazy.... A wise man told me it's all about synergy. Not everything sounds good with everything. I can't take anything away from the 3's...now you have me thinking, maybe I'll have a lil fun and a/b the 5 and 3 with a few sets. I know if you say it's better than it's better. It is however the iem pairs with the onboard dac...


Also, on an iPhone at least, you have two ways to raise the volume, in the app and on the phone.  Wonder if everyone is aware of that.  The Variations still slip off the 2 Pin Fiio adapters but I'm just dealing with it.  At least until I get the BT30 and those KZ AZ09 Pros.  Both arriving tomorrow.


----------



## Ceeluh7

erockg said:


> Also, on an iPhone at least, you have two ways to raise the volume, in the app and on the phone.  Wonder if everyone is aware of that.  The Variations still slip off the 2 Pin Fiio adapters but I'm just dealing with it.  At least until I get the BT30 and those KZ AZ09 Pros.  Both arriving tomorrow.


Ya it does as well on Android but that is very helpful to people if they didn't know that. On Android you actually have to go into developer options and turn off absolute volume and then it works as it should. I am very curious your thoughts on the bt30 vs the kz az09 pro.... I'll be looking out for what you think man


----------



## Ceeluh7

Ceeluh7 said:


> That's crazy.... A wise man told me it's all about synergy. Not everything sounds good with everything. I can't take anything away from the 3's...now you have me thinking, maybe I'll have a lil fun and a/b the 5 and 3 with a few sets. I know if you say it's better than it's better. It is however the iem pairs with the onboard dac...


Hey, another thing, it may just be me but there isn't a huge output power difference between the 3 and 5 to me. Maybe a hair, they both seem to power iems about the same... Does it seem like that to you or am I just making that up in my mind...


----------



## Ceeluh7

erockg said:


> I don't know man, might be all the luck of the draw.  I got the 2 Pin 3s yesterday for my Moondrop Variations and they are effin awesome.  Better than the Vs on the MMCX 5s with an adapter.  Maybe my old ears suck or I'm still dreaming.


Looks like I quoted myself in the last post.... Stupid.... 

Hey, another thing, it may just be me but there isn't a huge output power difference between the 3 and 5 to me. Maybe a hair, they both seem to power iems about the same... Does it seem like that to you or am I just making that up in my mind...


----------



## erockg

Ceeluh7 said:


> Looks like I quoted myself in the last post.... Stupid....
> 
> Hey, another thing, it may just be me but there isn't a huge output power difference between the 3 and 5 to me. Maybe a hair, they both seem to power iems about the same... Does it seem like that to you or am I just making that up in my mind...


I'll have to go back and forth but yeah, I totally noticed that.  But it could also be the IEMs I'm using.


----------



## Juturna

Bought the Technics AZ60 today, and I'm not even sure if I should open the box or just return it in a couple of days... Think I need to think about it for awhile because the money they cost could have been... well, I don't think I would've bought anything more FUN or maybe even more useful, but the money would buy me peace of mind that I wouldn't have to live on ramen noodles the rest of the month and anxiously overthink every single small purchase lol.


----------



## scubaphish

erockg said:


> I'll have to go back and forth but yeah, I totally noticed that.  But it could also be the IEMs I'm using.


FYI from UTWS5 page


----------



## cresny

Ceeluh7 said:


> Looks like I quoted myself in the last post.... Stupid....
> 
> Hey, another thing, it may just be me but there isn't a huge output power difference between the 3 and 5 to me. Maybe a hair, they both seem to power iems about the same... Does it seem like that to you or am I just making that up in my mind...


FIIO claims 40% more power at 16 ohms. I just ordered the Shuoer (is that Chinese Shure?) s12, yet another planar IEM, that apparently needs more juice than the Timeless. At this point I don't even own a USB DAC/Amp, let alone wireless, so I figured I'll just jump to the UTSW5. I would prefer the TW2 but I think it might be underpowered.


----------



## Ceeluh7

cresny said:


> FIIO claims 40% more power at 16 ohms. I just ordered the Shuoer (is that Chinese Shure?) s12, yet another planar IEM, that apparently needs more juice than the Timeless. At this point I don't even own a USB DAC/Amp, let alone wireless, so I figured I'll just jump to the UTSW5. I would prefer the TW2 but I think it might be underpowered.


Ya I saw that as well about 50 some MW per 16 ohms and 30 some mw for the Utws3 but maybe it's just me but I felt like there wasn't much of a difference... Who knows, not a big deal. The truth is... The Utws3 and 5 carry plenty of power for even "not so sensitive" iems. I had the Utws3 on my final audio e4000 a couple months ago just to see how well it would drive them and even the Utws3 drove the e4000 to its fullness just about. Of course e4000 or any final iem just eats power for breakfast and so they'll just keep taking until you decide to stop but I was surprised it was able to drive that set. I had to go to about 80/100 in volume but it drove it. Anyways, you didn't ask for any of that so... Lol... Sorry


----------



## Ceeluh7

Juturna said:


> Bought the Technics AZ60 today, and I'm not even sure if I should open the box or just return it in a couple of days... Think I need to think about it for awhile because the money they cost could have been... well, I don't think I would've bought anything more FUN or maybe even more useful, but the money would buy me peace of mind that I wouldn't have to live on ramen noodles the rest of the month and anxiously overthink every single small purchase lol.


Who did you buy them from?


----------



## erockg

scubaphish said:


> FYI from UTWS5 page


See!  This is why we're all here


----------



## LordToneeus

Juturna said:


> Bought the Technics AZ60 today, and I'm not even sure if I should open the box or just return it in a couple of days... Think I need to think about it for awhile because the money they cost could have been... well, I don't think I would've bought anything more FUN or maybe even more useful, but the money would buy me peace of mind that I wouldn't have to live on ramen noodles the rest of the month and anxiously overthink every single small purchase lol.


Totally understand that.  I haven't opened the MacBook Pro I purchased in early December...just in case it turns out I don't NEED it.  But man, I happen to love ramen noodles.  Crack an egg in there and add some rotisserie chicken?  Feast.


----------



## Juturna (Jan 13, 2022)

Ceeluh7 said:


> Who did you buy them from?


Just a local store.
Unfortunately there aren’t any stores in my country that has any sort of generous return policies where you can use the earbuds and then return them. If the seal has been broken, you’re keeping them, and that is that. 

Edit: the only one that does is Amazon, but they only sell the AZ70’s in my country (for the same price as the AZ60’s, I should add!)


----------



## Ceeluh7

Juturna said:


> Just a local store.
> Unfortunately there aren’t any stores in my country that has any sort of generous return policies where you can use the earbuds and then return them. If the seal has been broken, you’re keeping them, and that is that.
> 
> Edit: the only one that does is Amazon, but they only sell the AZ70’s in my country (for the same price as the AZ60’s, I should add!)


Gotcha. I can understand your dilemma for sure.


----------



## Tommy C

cresny said:


> FIIO claims 40% more power at 16 ohms. I just ordered the Shuoer (is that Chinese Shure?) s12, yet another planar IEM, that apparently needs more juice than the Timeless. At this point I don't even own a USB DAC/Amp, let alone wireless, so I figured I'll just jump to the UTSW5. I would prefer the TW2 but I think it might be underpowered.


I don’t think the TW2 are underpowered by any means. I’m at 50% volume when listening to them paired to the SE215


----------



## LordToneeus

For anyone interested, Audio46 still has some Fiio UTWS5's, both versions, in stock for $119.  They were out of the 2-pin earlier today, so I left my email so they could notify me when they were back in stock.  They emailed just a few minutes later, I jumped on the opportunity, and mine have already shipped!


----------



## Ceeluh7

Tommy C said:


> I don’t think the TW2 are underpowered by any means. I’m at 50% volume when listening to them paired to the SE215


I'm sure they are more than fine. I wish I could try them truthfully. I know shure prob did a great job with those adapters, they don't make many mistakes.


----------



## erockg

Ceeluh7 said:


> I'm sure they are more than fine. I wish I could try them truthfully. I know shure prob did a great job with those adapters, they don't make many mistakes.


That Amazon gc in your pocket means you CAN try them   I actually feel like they're underpowered in comparison to the Fiio.  I'm going to change the setting on them from SE846 to one of the others to see if I can get more power into the SE846.  Was using mine today and after a week of Fiio insanity with the Variations, it's so hard to go to the TW2s.  You know?


----------



## erockg

erockg said:


> That Amazon gc in your pocket means you CAN try them   I actually feel like they're underpowered in comparison to the Fiio.  I'm going to change the setting on them from SE846 to one of the others to see if I can get more power into the SE846.  Was using mine today and after a week of Fiio insanity with the Variations, it's so hard to go to the TW2s.  You know?


Okay yeah, switched to the SE425 setting and get more power for _sure_.


----------



## erockg

erockg said:


> Okay yeah, switched to the SE425 setting and get more power for _sure_.


Granted I'm probably killing my hearing.  But with the different setting, the Bass filter and a tweaked Treble Boost preset EQ, they are rockin'.


----------



## TK33

erockg said:


> That Amazon gc in your pocket means you CAN try them   I actually feel like they're underpowered in comparison to the Fiio.  I'm going to change the setting on them from SE846 to one of the others to see if I can get more power into the SE846.  Was using mine today and after a week of Fiio insanity with the Variations, it's so hard to go to the TW2s.  You know?


SE846 setting definitely results in lower volume.  I think there is a warning (probably from their legal department) in the app somewhere along the lines of not selecting the right one may cause hearing damage so don't say we didn't tell you, etc.


----------



## erockg

TK33 said:


> SE846 setting definitely results in lower volume.  I think there is a warning (probably from their legal department) in the app somewhere along the lines of not selecting the right one may cause hearing damage so don't say we didn't tell you, etc.


Oh yes, there is.  Def a US thing.  Probably why Fiio (China) can get away with it   I usually boost the db to get more on the TW2, but switching to the SE425 setting with no db increase seems to really help.  I didn't want to add too much EQ after installing that Bass filter.  Fun times!


----------



## Ceeluh7

Tommy C said:


> I don’t think the TW2 are underpowered by any means. I’m at 50% volume when listening to them paired to the SE215


I'm sure they are more than fine. I wish I could try them truthfully. I know shure prob did a great job with those adapters,


erockg said:


> That Amazon gc in your pocket means you CAN try them   I actually feel like they're underpowered in comparison to the Fiio.  I'm going to change the setting on them from SE846 to one of the others to see if I can get more power into the SE846.  Was using mine today and after a week of Fiio insanity with the Variations, it's so hard to go to the TW2s.  You know?


I know man, I would get them but... Dude I have two utws3's a utws5 and a kz az09 pro with a az10 coming soon... I mean... I just can't. It's raining iem adapters over hear bro... Ha. I did pick up the Tanchjim Hana 2021 today... Very excited to try that and I also just got... Again... The Grado Gt 220. I really do enjoy the Grados... Love the sound sig, the details, resolution and the bass to me was really nice. Truthfully I just wanted a damn good set of tws. I'm saving again and in a couple weeks I'm definitely getting the Fokus Pro. That is next. Problem is I am horrible at committing and the 10 year old in me just can't wait... Im going to do it though.... I want the Fokus pro.


----------



## Tommy C

erockg said:


> That Amazon gc in your pocket means you CAN try them   I actually feel like they're underpowered in comparison to the Fiio.  I'm going to change the setting on them from SE846 to one of the others to see if I can get more power into the SE846.  Was using mine today and after a week of Fiio insanity with the Variations, it's so hard to go to the TW2s.  You know?


Try changing it to the SE215 or the TW2. I tested all of them this week and the power output using the SE846, SE535 are among the lowest.


----------



## erockg

Ceeluh7 said:


> I'm sure they are more than fine. I wish I could try them truthfully. I know shure prob did a great job with those adapters,
> 
> I know man, I would get them but... Dude I have two utws3's a utws5 and a kz az09 pro with a az10 coming soon... I mean... I just can't. It's raining iem adapters over hear bro... Ha. I did pick up the Tanchjim Hana 2021 today... Very excited to try that and I also just got... Again... The Grado Gt 220. I really do enjoy the Grados... Love the sound sig, the details, resolution and the bass to me was really nice. Truthfully I just wanted a damn good set of tws. I'm saving again and in a couple weeks I'm definitely getting the Fokus Pro. That is next. Problem is I am horrible at committing and the 10 year old in me just can't wait... Im going to do it though.... I want the Fokus pro.


HAHAHAHA.  This is all great and nice to see I'm not alone.  I just got the Thieaudio Legacy 5 and paired them with the UTWS3 adapters.  Ugh.  And if I truly wirelessly love this setup, I may go higher.  It's like some sort of drug.  I just want more.


----------



## Ceeluh7

So I just saw this... Phillips is coming out with the "Fidelio T1" I think. They recently unveiled these and supposedly these are dual hybrid drivers, 1 DD & 1 BA. They come with ANC and LDAC and companion app. Appearantly "Fidelio" is Phillips new higher tier Sub-Brand. They look nice, at least they are trying to really compete.


----------



## Ceeluh7

erockg said:


> HAHAHAHA.  This is all great and nice to see I'm not alone.  I just got the Thieaudio Legacy 5 and paired them with the UTWS3 adapters.  Ugh.  And if I truly wirelessly love this setup, I may go higher.  It's like some sort of drug.  I just want more.


Ummmmm.... Ya dude.... I can't stop either. BTW the 5 are nice. Some go back and forth between which is better the 5 or the 4. Curious to hear what you think, as you've had time to spend with the 4 lately. Chi-fi or Jap-fi iems are just too good. I promise you man... The Iems you are buying for $200 bucks now would've been $1000 not very long ago. The competition is feirce man. Even budget sets are truly getting too good to pass up. I have loads of budget sets that truly compete sonically. Competition man... Turns out it actually works out in our favor.


----------



## erockg

Tommy C said:


> Try changing it to the SE215 or the TW2. I tested all of them this week and the power output using the SE846, SE535 are among the lowest.


Oh yes, I have, but stupidly never did it on the SE846.  I like it better with more power for sure!


----------



## xSDMx

Any perceivable SQ or noise floor improvements with the SE215 setting on the SE846? I'm using the SE846 and am comfortable at 80% volume.


----------



## erockg

Ceeluh7 said:


> Ummmmm.... Ya dude.... I can't stop either. BTW the 5 are nice. Some go back and forth between which is better the 5 or the 4. Curious to hear what you think, as you've had time to spend with the 4 lately. Chi-fi or Jap-fi iems are just too good. I promise you man... The Iems you are buying for $200 bucks now would've been $1000 not very long ago. The competition is feirce man. Even budget sets are truly getting too good to pass up. I have loads of budget sets that truly compete sonically. Competition man... Turns out it actually works out in our favor.


I exchanged the 4 for the 5 and I'm immediately liking the sound better.


----------



## erockg

xSDMx said:


> Any perceivable SQ or noise floor improvements with the SE215 setting on the SE846? I'm using the SE846 and am comfortable at 80% volume.


Could be psychosomatic, but I feel that the bass has more punch for me with it set for the 425.  But if you like the volume the way you have it, no sense in messing with it, unless you want to experiment.


----------



## Tommy C (Jan 14, 2022)

erockg said:


> Could be psychosomatic, but I feel that the bass has more punch for me with it set for the 425.  But if you like the volume the way you have it, no sense in messing with it, unless you want to experiment.



I think there is a slight difference between the SE215 and the TW2. The TW2 settings bring the sound to the front a bit and the highs are a bit more forward but when you switch to SE215 the whole thing takes a step back half a notch. It's subtle but it's there.


----------



## cresny

Tommy C said:


> I don’t think the TW2 are underpowered by any means. I’m at 50% volume when listening to them paired to the SE215


Maybe it's unfounded given these are 16 ohms, but many folks claim that planar magnetic buds need more power, and I've read, even here, not so satisfactory reports of utws3 + Timeless vs. great results withe the 5. Meanwhile I can't find any mW output specs for the TW2, while FIIO brags about theirs. I very much suspect there are other factors involved in bringing out great sound, but I don't understand them well. So -- anyone try the TW2 with a planar?


----------



## Tommy C (Jan 13, 2022)

Tommy C said:


> I think there is a slight difference between the SE215 and the TW2. The TW2 settings bring the sound to the front a bit and the highs are a bit more forward but when you switch to SE215 the whole thing takes a step back half a notch back. It's subtle but it's there.


@erockg check out also the Aonic 3 settings. They pump more than enough power to these puppies.


----------



## dmphile

Seeking a little advice. I've been wearing the timeless with the UTWS5 for 2 days now and while I love the sound, the timeless is not exactly the most comfortable and my left ear gets really sore based on it's current position. I'm thinking maybe if I can get an MMCX to MMCX adapter it can help extend the length of the IEM lower to my ear to potentially give me a better fit. Does it exist?

Any other advice to make these a more comfortable fit would also be appreciated!


----------



## erockg

dmphile said:


> Seeking a little advice. I've been wearing the timeless with the UTWS5 for 2 days now and while I love the sound, the timeless is not exactly the most comfortable and my left ear gets really sore based on it's current position. I'm thinking maybe if I can get an MMCX to MMCX adapter it can help extend the length of the IEM lower to my ear to potentially give me a better fit. Does it exist?
> 
> Any other advice to make these a more comfortable fit would also be appreciated!


There might be something out there.  Check Aliexpress or Amazon.  I got an MMCX to 2 Pin off Amazon easily.  One of the reasons I returned the Timeless was due to fit, so I feel ya.


----------



## guitarizt

Ceeluh7 said:


> I am all. Over the IFi Go Blu and I pair it with my TRI I3 Pro's.... Also I love the Fiio fh3 with the IFi Go Blu or the Qudelix. I have a single ended 7n Pure copper cable on it and it just sounds so amazing to me. I used to use spc (silver plated copper) on the FH3 and I liked it but throw that pure copper on it and wow... So nice. With this set up I would take it over sets $300 more. I have been listening alot over those gears. Or a few times last week I sat down to test out the Fiio/Jade Audio Ka3 dongle dac.... What a beast... So nice. Trying to put a review together comparing it to the Shanling Ua2. Anyways, I can't seem to put down the IFi Go Blu. Such a robust and full sound all the way around... Just very nice. At work I primarily listen to the Fiio Utws5 and the kz az09 Pro attached to different iems...i don't have a top tier tws so I just haven't been going that route though I would love to, so, I ended up purchasing again the Grado GT220 just because it sounded so amazing to me. No features just sound.


 Thanks, first I've heard of the ifi go blue, and glowing review of the fh3. That tempts me in the direction of the eclipse. I might just work my way through the crin collabs, which would be an excuse for me to get the dusk. But I also think it might be hard to beat the btr5 + timeless, even though it's not totally the sound I'm after, so I might just wait and get the monarch mk2.

Whenever my arias get here will affect what direction I go. I'm still liking my galaxy pros for tws when I'm out.


----------



## dmphile

erockg said:


> There might be something out there.  Check Aliexpress or Amazon.  I got an MMCX to 2 Pin off Amazon easily.  One of the reasons I returned the Timeless was due to fit, so I feel ya.


I am seriously considering trying out the OH500s lol


----------



## erockg

dmphile said:


> I am seriously considering trying out the OH500s lol


If you can get a cheap adapter, try those Thieaudio Legacy 5 instead.  I’d say they’re better and almost half the price.  Insane!


----------



## C_Lindbergh (Jan 14, 2022)

Just received the Tecnics  EAH-AZ60  Initial impressions are really really good!

* SQ seems above average (bit too early to tell I guess)
* ANC also seems above average (and doesn't seem to affect the sound)
* Fit is pretty good
*Case is tiny
*Ambient mode works bloody perfect, customizable control. music pauses and music resumes when you turn off ambient
*Great app with many functions/settings

The stock tips very also pretty good, even tho I'm likely to experiment a bit with my own collection of ear tips.

No product is perfect, in the AZ60's case I would have liked a tiny bit higher volume in the max setting and wireless charging for the case.

The closest comparison I can make with the AZ60 is the Sony XM4, I briefly owned them earlier last year, but I had to return them because I didn't quite like the fit.  The AZ60 footprint is a bit smaller than the Sony's 

The Technicas really nailed the fundamentals of a TWS in my opinion, a tiny case with great implementations of controls, ambient mode, ANC etc. Convenience is the key of a TWS. If the absolute best SQ is the highest prioirty then there's plenty of IEMs that you can pair with an adapter, but the case/adapters will always be more bulkier and lacking many functions of a TWS.

We're getting closer and closer to the "end-game" TWS, but not quite yet, the AZ60 are a great step. The AZ60 will defintly satisify me until there's more high end options with APTX lossless


----------



## Ceeluh7

guitarizt said:


> Thanks, first I've heard of the ifi go blue, and glowing review of the fh3. That tempts me in the direction of the eclipse. I might just work my way through the crin collabs, which would be an excuse for me to get the dusk. But I also think it might be hard to beat the btr5 + timeless, even though it's not totally the sound I'm after, so I might just wait and get the monarch mk2.
> 
> Whenever my arias get here will affect what direction I go. I'm still liking my galaxy pros for tws when I'm out.


It is all a very good problem to have. Timeless is a tough one to beat because the sound sig just has that planar effect.


----------



## C_Lindbergh

Oh, and I also really like that the stock tips for the AZ60s got a wax/debris protection! Maybe I'll just stick to the stock tips this time


----------



## Ceeluh7

C_Lindbergh said:


> Oh, and I also really like that the stock tips for the AZ60s got a wax/debris protection! Maybe I'll just stick to the stock tips this time


I like them as well. I kept a pair from the AZ60's I sent back.... I know horrible. I like the tackiness of them, they seal well. I did cut out the little protecter over the nozzle and took out the foam but ya, they are nice tips


----------



## Juturna

C_Lindbergh said:


> Oh, and I also really like that the stock tips for the AZ60s got a wax/debris protection! Maybe I'll just stick to the stock tips this time


Couldn't help but open my AZ60's today as well, I wanted to treat myself a little. :') Just put them in, needed to do an update... after i've listened a bit more i'll post my verdict on the buds. 
Maybe I should try to get rid of some of my other earbuds. It sucks that one of my "hobbies" is buying things that are difficult to sell when you need money  Would really want to sell my Devialet Geminis but I don't think enough people know of them to want to try them out.


----------



## Juturna (Jan 14, 2022)

Honestly, people saying that the AZ60's don't have any bass really need to switch eartips.
I think I read some people saying that they had no mid-bass which is a weird statement.

I would even say that it sounds a tad bloated in the mid-bass on the standard preset without any EQ.
I think I could agree with someone saying that the bass is the weakest point of the earbuds though, it lacks a little bit in sub bass and the mid-bass lacks in speed and is just a bit too boomy. Had to dial the 100 and 315 frequency bands down by a bit, and I love bass... so uh. yeah.

The rest I like though, I think one thing that strikes me with these is that while the soundstage isn't the WIDEST, it has a surprising amount of depth too it, I feel like I can hear sounds coming from a distance but in front of me, I haven't had that experience with TWS's that much so far.
This isn't very objective, but I like how CLEAN they sound. They're very smooth without being dull, and definitely far from being harsh.

Edit:

I'm glad that they included the XL eartips. I feel like I got the best sound out of them with those eartips as well as the ANC being improved by a bit, the comfort was slightly better with the L eartips though. The XLs feel like they potentially could pop out of my ear, but I've done the headshake test and I couldn't make them move... so I don't know!


----------



## Ceeluh7

Juturna said:


> Honestly, people saying that the AZ60's don't have any bass really need to switch eartips.
> I think I read some people saying that they had no mid-bass which is a weird statement.
> 
> I would even say that it sounds a tad bloated in the mid-bass on the standard preset without any EQ.
> ...


I most definitely had a lack of bass and trust me I am a eartip changing fanatic... Lol. Really man, some songs just had next to nothing and that is with EQ'ing. Who knows maybe there is variations and some sets are just not up to other sets... I've certainly seen it before and will prob see it again... QC. I wouldn't think so with a brand like that but crazier things have happened. Ya it seemed I could not do anything, none of my tricks worked to Increase the low end, and I don't need pulse pounding bass either, I like strong bass but controlled, I like good bass and for whatever reason the AZ60 set that I had was really weak in that area. Also sibilance was a problem. I can normally mod or eq sibilance out but with that set I could not get it to stop being sibilant. I think I had a bad set... Ugh


----------



## scubaphish

Ceeluh7 said:


> Ahh gotcha, the Comet isn't bad at all. For a single BA it stretches what you'd think it could do. I don't think it has the musicality of the Aria... Just my opinion. The Aria however isn't a bass canon, it can be good, just not a head banger but like you said it can be when called for. One you may want to look at is the TinHifi T3+. I have it and I like it a bit better than Aria. Or even the KZ ZAS.... I freaking love the ZAS. Good clean and powerful bass without leaving the other areas behind too bad. Anyways, there are too many options and I was just curious man.


Any thoughts on the KZ ZS10 Pro?  It’s $44 on Amazon and seems awfully tempting to pair with the Kz Az09


----------



## Ceeluh7

scubaphish said:


> Any thoughts on the KZ ZS10 Pro?  It’s $44 on Amazon and seems awfully tempting to pair with the Kz Az09


The kz zs10 pro is one of those legend sets. It has a V-shaped tuning, decent to good sub-bass extension and a more laid back mid-bass. The Mids have good clarity, resolution, are a bit held back but not unnatural and are crisp. The treble can get a bit sharp man, which can be eq'd. Or maybe you like a slightly brighter area in the highs. The treble is detailed enough and for the price I'd say they are pretty good. Everything is crisp and clear and V-shaped. This set literally improved upon everything that held back the original ZS10. It has great build quality and truthfully if the signature is one you like then I'd say it is a great set even still in that price point. It certainly doesn't suck, there is a reason that so many people purchased it and enjoyed it.


----------



## josh0001

webreaper said:


> Hi all,
> 
> Haven't posted much as I've been pretty happy with the Senn IE80s over the last couple of years. But I'm getting a bit fed up with having to replace the cable every 8-12 months. The IE80s are fantastic sound-wise, and I have custom-moulded sleeves which give a wonderful fit and great sound isolation. I was originally looking for a wireless lanyard like the Westone BT cable 78548, but unfortunately the IE80s use a custom connector, and I can't find an equivalent wireless converter that'll fit the Senns (there's some $5 ones on Alibaba, but I've no confidence that they'll have decent SQ, battery life or reliability).
> 
> ...


what do you think bought getting a normal pair of IEM's and ad the UTWS5? otherwise I'd suggest the Sony since they are good though they have a litlebid strange form


----------



## Phaethon (Jan 14, 2022)

Finally got through enough AB testing and can report on my experiences with UTSW5 with 2pin and MMCX and the Shure TW2. I tested these using my iPhone 12 Pro Max and my iBasso dx300 as sources and my Tin Hifi P1 Plus, Fiio FH7 and Moondrop Blessing 2.
Everything is subjective according to my taste and the physiology of my hearing. I tested using Incognito, Big Audio Dynamite, Govt Mule, Albinoni’s Complete Oboe Concertos, and Brian Eno’s 4 album Ambient Music Series.

UTSW5 vs TW2 - wow. Truly a matter of taste! The Fiio is certainly louder but more on that in a minute. The DAC/AMPs in the two brands are actually quite different. The Fiio has a sound that feels more blended to me. The bass does thrum to me clearly and I definitely could focus on the details of the highs. The middle though really didn’t work for me. I had a harder time sorting the instruments out and identifying them. I would say for me it was really good but not great. Swap to the Shures and it’s obvious that the bass isn’t as refined as the Fiio in the sub range but it is fantastic for the popping and slapping basses in my preferred music. The highs are crisp but not ear piercing. The Shures were a much better match for me.
And then there’s the Fiio feature bugs. It is an aggressive blue-tooth connector. I would swap back to the TW2 and the Fiio in the closed case would reconnect to my source, disconnecting the Shures. This morning I popped them into my ears and music blared into my ears. Grabbing my dx300, I found that I could not turn the volume down. I had to open the Fiio app and turn down the device volume. The Shure feature experience is great. Not as many features as I would like but they work.
The Fiios are going back. The Shures are staying. Maybe I’ll use the Mmcx to 2 pin adapters. Or maybe I’ll stick with MMCX IEMs. Doesn’t sound like punishment to me!
Thanks for reading my novella!


----------



## Phaethon

Oh! And nothing beats the wires. With my Fokus Pros I don’t know why I even keep the Shures.


----------



## cytoSiN

Phaethon said:


> Oh! And nothing beats the wires. With my Fokus Pros I don’t know why I even keep the Shures.


For ambient!  That's the only reason, right?

As for my continuing experience with Solaris+TW2:

Getting BT lag with YT videos which is exceptionally annoying.  Haven't tried a zoom meeting yet but concerned about lag there, will have to report back.
The 846 is more than enough power for the Solaris, which has approximately the same impedance.  When I set it to the 425 or 215 there's an audible hiss with nothing playing, and I'm not interested in that noise (no pun intended).
SQ remains fantastic.
Testing of calls continues.  I like to do calls with only one earphone in, and I don't love that I have to remember which one is the master or the person can't hear me anymore?  Is that a thing?  Seems annoying.  Will have to keep testing this.  With my Buds+, I can take out or leave in whichever one I want and it just works for calls.  So again, need more testing on this.
Ambient continues to amaze the crap out of me, although I admit I'm new to this feature.  I do find it a bit loud for close sounds, like filling a glass of water, and a bit too low for someone talking to me from 10+ feet away, but I wonder if the app can adjust that?  Will need to keep tweaking.
Overall, I'm enjoying the ability to use Solaris wirelessly, so happy with the purchase so far.  More to come.


----------



## dweaver (Jan 14, 2022)

Any other AZ60 owner have an issue with the left bud making a tiny beep/tick sound that happens when walking when using ANC?

 I have turned off music and just walked and it definitely is there and only when in ANC mode. Very annoying. The notes on the December firmware update actually mention a bug around this issue was fixed. Going to see if I can reset my pair, hopefully that will resolve the issue.


----------



## BooleanBones

dweaver said:


> Any other AZ60 owner have an issue with the left bud making a tiny beep/tick sound that happens when walking when using ANC?
> 
> I have turned off music and just walked and it definitely is there and only when in ANC mode. Very annoying. The notes on the December firmware update actually mention a bug around this issue was fixed. Going to see if I can reset my pair, hopefully that will resolve the issue.


I will try and test mine out this weekend. Can't say that I have noticed that yet, but have not walked around in silence per se.


----------



## dweaver

OK, just reset my AZ60 to no effect. But further testing shows it is definitely the left bud because I hear it if I put that bud (awkwardly) in my right ear. But I hear it in all 3 modes, not just ANC but its most pronounced in ANC mode.

Its weird because it almost like a weird seal issue because I can recreate the sound by moving the bud around in my ear and I can do that from either left or right ear (using the left bud) but it does not do it from the right bud at all. All I have to do is move the left bud up and down like your toggling a switch and I can recreate the sound almost every time. But again only on the left bud.

I will try a different size tip and maybe some other tips I have on hand and see if they all do it. If they do its something with the bud. Will update as I get more information.


----------



## C_Lindbergh

I was actually surprised how well they actually blocked out your footsteps when walking outside, I didn't hear any beep/sound or anything unusual.


----------



## dweaver

C_Lindbergh said:


> I was actually surprised how well they actually blocked out your footsteps when walking outside, I didn't hear any beep/sound or anything unusual.


thats the way they were initially and then this started to happen. I even swapped the tips from left to wright to see if that was the issue versus the bud itself, but the issue always happens on the left earbud only.


----------



## C_Lindbergh

dweaver said:


> thats the way they were initially and then this started to happen. I even swapped the tips from left to wright to see if that was the issue versus the bud itself, but the issue always happens on the left earbud only.



Hmm, guess you got no options left but RMA, hopefully Technicas/Panasonic are great at after-sale support


----------



## dweaver

OK tried a different size and also tried a Sony hybrid tip, the same issue with both. So can't be resolved by tips changes. I think my left bud may be slightly defective, maybe something a bit loose inside it as. I just gave both buds a quick clean with a wipe just in case there is an oil or dirt issue causing a problem.

BTW congrats on the new AZ60 purchasers, so far most of you seem to be like me and @Canabuc and are enjoying your purchase. I am VERY happy even with this weird issue, I actually find I am not enjoying my GBuds Pro as much, the more I use these the more I just want to use them.

I am now just waiting for the EAH-A800 to drop in North America and then hopefully go on sale somewhere and that will my next and if I am lucky last big purchase for a good long while.


----------



## dweaver (Jan 14, 2022)

C_Lindbergh said:


> Hmm, guess you got no options left but RMA, hopefully Technicas/Panasonic are great at after-sale support


just looking into that as I did not buy any extended warranty when I bought these.

This from the Canadian website:


For products purchased from an authorized Panasonic dealer, please contact your selling dealer for an exchange.
For products purchased online via the Panasonic eStore, please contact them directly via this link Panasonic eStore Contact Form.
For products purchased via Amazon or another Panasonic Authorized on line vendor and you are unable to return it to them, the exchange can be facilitated by our service/exchange facility Professional Electronics. Please arrange to ship the complete unit, prepaid, to the following address for exchange under the manufacturer's warranty terms. Also include a copy of your purchase receipt which validates the warranty, your complete contact information including your name, address, telephone number, email address and details of the defect with the unit.
Professional Electronics
So I bought these online but from London Drugs, will contact them and see if I can just get them swapped.


----------



## C_Lindbergh

dweaver said:


> OK tried a different size and also tried a Sony hybrid tip, the same issue with both. So can't be resolved by tips changes. I think my left bud may be slightly defective, maybe something a bit loose inside it as. I just gave both buds a quick clean with a wipe just in case there is an oil or dirt issue causing a problem.
> 
> BTW congrats on the new AZ60 purchasers, so far most of you seem to be like me and @Canabuc and are enjoying your purchase. I am VERY happy even with this weird issue, I actually find I am not enjoying my GBuds Pro as much, the more I use these the more I just want to use them.
> 
> I am now just waiting for the EAH-A800 to drop in North America and then hopefully go on sale somewhere and that will my next and if I am lucky last big purchase for a good long while.


The EAH-A800 looks really interesting, even tho I don't have that much use of a pair of wireless over-ears. 

Is there a seperate thread for them?


----------



## dweaver

C_Lindbergh said:


> The EAH-A800 looks really interesting, even tho I don't have that much use of a pair of wireless over-ears.
> 
> Is there a seperate thread for them?


there was not, the last time I checked. Might start one up if that's still the case. They look really good. Basically all the features of the AZ60 with auto off functionality and an insane battery life. I own the cheaper older Panasonic ANC model (can't remember the model number) and it also has LDAC but like the AZ70 is a bit too polite in the mid-bass area especially now that I have grown used to the AZ60. So I am hopeful they will carry forward the general sound signature of the AZ60 but have all that extra space a full size headphone gives.

I live in a cold climate so 6 months out of the year headphone make an excellent ear muff... LOL


----------



## guitarizt

Ceeluh7 said:


> It is all a very good problem to have. Timeless is a tough one to beat because the sound sig just has that planar effect.


I still don't know what that is, but I'm guessing more open sounding? It's weird, I usually like closed sounds with no soundstage. Not a huge fan of open back headphones. I'm still trying to find what I like for iems, but hopefully the arias are it. I just wish the shipping time wasn't 3-4 weeks.


----------



## Ceeluh7

guitarizt said:


> I still don't know what that is, but I'm guessing more open sounding? It's weird, I usually like closed sounds with no soundstage. Not a huge fan of open back headphones. I'm still trying to find what I like for iems, but hopefully the arias are it. I just wish the shipping time wasn't 3-4 weeks.


IMO the Aria is prob one of the best value iems there is. It has 90% the SQ of the Moondrop Kato and is just a very good set for the price. Stinks it will take so long, I hate waiting as well


----------



## dmphile (Jan 14, 2022)

erockg said:


> There might be something out there.  Check Aliexpress or Amazon.  I got an MMCX to 2 Pin off Amazon easily.  One of the reasons I returned the Timeless was due to fit, so I feel ya.


Do you think this will work for the UTWS5s? The MMCX female to MMCX male

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/100...1;43.44;-1;-1@salePrice;CAD;search-mainSearch


----------



## Ceeluh7

dmphile said:


> Do you think this will work for the UTWS5s? The MMCX female to MMCX male
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005003420979695.html?spm=a2g0o.productlist.0.0.2950e355OBKp5q&algo_pvid=36df0778-a71e-4b7c-8c3e-754e09ab2067&algo_exp_id=36df0778-a71e-4b7c-8c3e-754e09ab2067-43&pdp_ext_f={"sku_id":"12000025711399832"}&pdp_pi=-1;43.44;-1;-1@salePrice;CAD;search-mainSearch


Yes it should, at least I would think, the angle doesn't seem too severe. Look like they are on a 45°.


----------



## dmphile

Ceeluh7 said:


> Yes it should, at least I would think, the angle doesn't seem too severe. Look like they are on a 45°.


Ya I only need it to slightly hang lower on left ear than what I have now. My right ear is smaller so it's fine but mostly affects my left.


----------



## Ceeluh7

dmphile said:


> Ya I only need it to slightly hang lower on left ear than what I have now. My right ear is smaller so it's fine but mostly affects my left.


How much did these cost, for whatever reason the link simply is sending me to the Ali home page?


----------



## erockg

dmphile said:


> Do you think this will work for the UTWS5s? The MMCX female to MMCX male
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005003420979695.html?spm=a2g0o.productlist.0.0.2950e355OBKp5q&algo_pvid=36df0778-a71e-4b7c-8c3e-754e09ab2067&algo_exp_id=36df0778-a71e-4b7c-8c3e-754e09ab2067-43&pdp_ext_f={"sku_id":"12000025711399832"}&pdp_pi=-1;43.44;-1;-1@salePrice;CAD;search-mainSearch


These also look like they're for the Sennheiser buds.  Those have a proprietary plug.


----------



## erockg

Ceeluh7 said:


> How much did these cost, for whatever reason the link simply is sending me to the Ali home page?


Fourth one in the top row:  https://www.aliexpress.com/item/100...1;43.44;-1;-1@salePrice;CAD;search-mainSearch


----------



## dmphile (Jan 14, 2022)

Ceeluh7 said:


> How much did these cost, for whatever reason the link simply is sending me to the Ali home page?


It says it's $49.48 CAD which is crazy but there aren't any other options except for maybe this vendor.

https://fieldcomponents.com/mmcx-male-plug-to-mmcx-female-jack-adapter-gold-plated-brass-50ohm.html

These are also expensive to ship to Canada lol. $6.99 USD but shipping is like $30 USD


----------



## dmphile

erockg said:


> These also look like they're for the Sennheiser buds.  Those have a proprietary plug.


argh... then they won't work i guess?


----------



## erockg

dmphile said:


> It says it's $49.48 CAD which is crazy but there aren't any other options except for maybe this vendor.
> 
> https://fieldcomponents.com/mmcx-male-plug-to-mmcx-female-jack-adapter-gold-plated-brass-50ohm.html


Yeah, that's a lot.  Whew.


----------



## cresny (Jan 14, 2022)

erockg said:


> Fourth one in the top row:  https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005003420979695.html?spm=a2g0o.productlist.0.0.2950e355OBKp5q&algo_pvid=36df0778-a71e-4b7c-8c3e-754e09ab2067&algo_exp_id=36df0778-a71e-4b7c-8c3e-754e09ab2067-43&pdp_ext_f={"sku_id":"12000025711399832"}&pdp_pi=-1;43.44;-1;-1@salePrice;CAD;search-mainSearch


I think that might get lost in the AliExpress madness. But I managed to follow it to these,  came out to under $10 after unasked for discounts.

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005003319566164.html

Oh well, this link goes nowhere, too. Search for "OKCSC HIFI Headphone Plug"


----------



## erockg

dmphile said:


> argh... then they won't work i guess?


I'm not sure.  I don't have the Sennheiser buds.  I know it's still MMCX, but they have a deeper connection or something like that.


----------



## dmphile

erockg said:


> I'm not sure.  I don't have the Sennheiser buds.  I know it's still MMCX, but they have a deeper connection or something like that.


So strange that they don't have the regular MMCX to MMCX (male to female) adapters but they have everything else.


----------



## erockg

Tommy C said:


> @erockg check out also the Aonic 3 settings. They pump more than enough power to these puppies.


I just popped on the Aonic 3 setting for my SE846s and whoa.  Listening to this with no EQ and it's just so chilling:


----------



## BooleanBones

erockg said:


> I just popped on the Aonic 3 setting for my SE846s and whoa.  Listening to this with no EQ and it's just so chilling:


RIP Chris, such a shame.


----------



## BooleanBones

dmphile said:


> So strange that they don't have the regular MMCX to MMCX (male to female) adapters but they have everything else.


They spin it as added stability at the connection joint. I liked the IE300 sound/fit and can only imagine what the IE900s sound like, but it was a no go as I am not going to buy, test, and fit a bunch of third party band aids to make them work with the nice adapters.


----------



## Canabuc

The Jojo said:


> It's been almost two years, and I've been happy with my Elite 75t ever since. But since this is a hobby and they're really starting to show their age I finally bought several fully wireless IEMs to find my buds for the next couple of years.
> 
> Turns out... I might go back to my trusted Jabras.
> 
> ...



Sounds like you need to try the Technics😉


----------



## erockg

BooleanBones said:


> RIP Chris, such a shame.


Affects me to this day.  Huge fan.


----------



## dmphile

BooleanBones said:


> They spin it as added stability at the connection joint. I liked the IE300 sound/fit and can only imagine what the IE900s sound like, but it was a no go as I am not going to buy, test, and fit a bunch of third party band aids to make them work with the nice adapters.


What about these? Think they'll fit?

https://m.aliexpress.com/item/40005...ommend-ump;is_freeshipping:null;trade_order:2


----------



## Canabuc

dweaver said:


> OK, just reset my AZ60 to no effect. But further testing shows it is definitely the left bud because I hear it if I put that bud (awkwardly) in my right ear. But I hear it in all 3 modes, not just ANC but its most pronounced in ANC mode.
> 
> Its weird because it almost like a weird seal issue because I can recreate the sound by moving the bud around in my ear and I can do that from either left or right ear (using the left bud) but it does not do it from the right bud at all. All I have to do is move the left bud up and down like your toggling a switch and I can recreate the sound almost every time. But again only on the left bud.
> 
> I will try a different size tip and maybe some other tips I have on hand and see if they all do it. If they do its something with the bud. Will update as I get more information.



Can't say I noticed this.


----------



## BooleanBones

dmphile said:


> What about these? Think they'll fit?
> 
> https://m.aliexpress.com/item/4000539263148.html?spm=a2g0n.detail.0.0.49415dfck19rWG&gps-id=platformRecommendH5&scm=1007.18499.251972.0&scm_id=1007.18499.251972.0&scm-url=1007.18499.251972.0&pvid=8e852263-4cf3-43e7-9927-dedd4a2c30bb&_t=gps-idlatformRecommendH5,scm-url:1007.18499.251972.0,pvid:8e852263-4cf3-43e7-9927-dedd4a2c30bb,tpp_buckets:668#2846#8107#1934&&pdp_ext_f=null&compareFields=formatted_price:C$ 61.74;itemId:4000539263148;freight_formatted_price:null;source:recommend-ump;is_freeshipping:null;trade_order:2


Possibly, but pricey if they don’t work


----------



## guitarizt

My utws3's don't hang off the ear quite right with my timeless. I have some adapters coming from amazon in a week or two. About $26 each, ouch! I'll just be using my btr5 all the time anyway I think. I'm hoping the arias work with the utws3.

What does everything think of the mpows? I have a copy of them, letscomm, I really like for jogging. Wanting a slightly better sound quality than them has lead me on this journey, but I still think they're solid for 14.


----------



## Caipirina

Ceeluh7 said:


> So I just saw this... Phillips is coming out with the "Fidelio T1" I think. They recently unveiled these and supposedly these are dual hybrid drivers, 1 DD & 1 BA. They come with ANC and LDAC and companion app. Appearantly "Fidelio" is Phillips new higher tier Sub-Brand. They look nice, at least they are trying to really compete.


Don't they look somewhat familiar? cough xm3 cough cough


----------



## hakunamakaka

Are there any worth checking bluetooth IEM's today ? I've tried newest airpods and wasn't actually impressed. I'm looking for it as a gift so aesthetics and comfort is important. 

IEM would be used with iphone/macbook over AAC codec. Personally I believe that the drawback is in bluetooth codec itself, but maybe things have changed


----------



## James-uk (Jan 15, 2022)

This has opened my mind to a wireless future. Considering in the next few years we will have lossless Bluetooth or another wireless standard, even as it stands now playing lossy aac, this sounds 95% as good as wired imo.
Unbelievable how far things have come. I’ve got a wireless IE900 and it’s blowing my mind.


----------



## Ceeluh7

James-uk said:


> This has opened my mind to a wireless future. Considering in the next few years we will have lossless Bluetooth or another wireless standard, even as it stands now playing lossy aac, this sounds 95% as good as wired imo.
> Unbelievable how far things have come. I’ve got a wireless IE900 and it’s blowing my mind.


You are spot on...the quality of the dac/amps being used (Fiio, Shure) inside of these adapters are really punching a hole in the "audiophile" snobbery against anything wireless. I personally do love wired sound but just as much enjoy these style adapters. To take things even further is to pair iems with a Ifi Go Blu/Fiio Btr5/Qudelix 5k etc. I honestly cannot tell a difference with those wireless units...at all. It might as well be a wired set up with those. Anyways I completely agree that adapters like the Tw2 and utws5/utws3 are really amazing in the audio and it is getting increasingly difficult to spot a difference anymore.


----------



## Ceeluh7

Caipirina said:


> Don't they look somewhat familiar? cough xm3 cough cough


Ya they may have snagged a few ideas from some other popular sets. I am at least intrigued. It will be difficult to try to get a foot in the market as Phillips has tried with the Phillips t8505, which in paper look good, yet I see really no reviews at all for that set and it is premium priced. We shall see


----------



## Ceeluh7

guitarizt said:


> My utws3's don't hang off the ear quite right with my timeless. I have some adapters coming from amazon in a week or two. About $26 each, ouch! I'll just be using my btr5 all the time anyway I think. I'm hoping the arias work with the utws3.
> 
> What does everything think of the mpows? I have a copy of them, letscomm, I really like for jogging. Wanting a slightly better sound quality than them has lead me on this journey, but I still think they're solid for 14.


Arias kind of work with the utws3. I have tried my Aria on my utws3 before but the 2 pin on the Aria is slightly recessed and the 2 pin connector on the utws3 is juuuuuuust long enough to get a grip on the Aria, however I wouldn't be surprised if they fell off. I ended up putting another set on the utws3 and just use wires with my Aria


----------



## guitarizt (Jan 15, 2022)

Ceeluh7 said:


> Arias kind of work with the utws3. I have tried my Aria on my utws3 before but the 2 pin on the Aria is slightly recessed and the 2 pin connector on the utws3 is juuuuuuust long enough to get a grip on the Aria, however I wouldn't be surprised if they fell off. I ended up putting another set on the utws3 and just use wires with my Aria


I have mmcx utws3's but I ordered adapters.

One weird thing I didn't expect at all is that I just tried my btr5 with my iphone with cable, and it sounds better than pc with cable. I'll have to try bt with phone and pc later, but man this is interesting.

[edit] Just remembered I'm using the flat eq on my iphone with apple music. That might be it. But yeah it's considerably better.


----------



## Ceeluh7

guitarizt said:


> I have mmcx utws3's but I ordered adapters.
> 
> One weird thing I didn't expect at all is that I just tried my btr5 with my iphone with cable, and it sounds better than pc with cable. I'll have to try bt with phone and pc later, but man this is interesting.
> 
> [edit] Just remembered I'm using the flat eq on my iphone with apple music. That might be it. But yeah it's considerably better.


So you were using the Btr5 as a dac straight to your iphone & pc?


----------



## BooleanBones

dmphile said:


> What about these? Think they'll fit?


You might ask @James-uk what adapter he used to get his IE900s working with the Fiio adapter. Looks like he has it working well.


----------



## erockg

Ceeluh7 said:


> Arias kind of work with the utws3. I have tried my Aria on my utws3 before but the 2 pin on the Aria is slightly recessed and the 2 pin connector on the utws3 is juuuuuuust long enough to get a grip on the Aria, however I wouldn't be surprised if they fell off. I ended up putting another set on the utws3 and just use wires with my Aria


I got those BT30s from Hifigo yesterday.  Not bad.  You do need to crank them on an iPhone to power the Moondrop Variations best.  Theiaudio buds do not need as much power.  Still assessing if they truly affect sound as different as the Fiio adapters.


----------



## erockg

James-uk said:


> This has opened my mind to a wireless future. Considering in the next few years we will have lossless Bluetooth or another wireless standard, even as it stands now playing lossy aac, this sounds 95% as good as wired imo.
> Unbelievable how far things have come. I’ve got a wireless IE900 and it’s blowing my mind.


Can you link us to the adapter you bought for the Fiio to Sennie connection?  Thanks!


----------



## James-uk

erockg said:


> Can you link us to the adapter you bought for the Fiio to Sennie connection?  Thanks!


￡26.67  8％ Off | Super Mini MMCX/0.78MM Female To Sennheiser IE300/IE900 Headphone Conversion Pin Conversion Head Adapter
https://a.aliexpress.com/_mMbUydi


----------



## jant71 (Jan 15, 2022)

I was like why do we have this...
https://www.amazon.com/CCA-Bluetooth-Wireless-Microphone-Headphones/dp/B09QGLKSW3/ref=sr_1_66?crid=3LKKXI3M1X6LJ&keywords=true+wireless+aptX&qid=1642264995&sprefix=true+wireless+aptx,aps,92&sr=8-66

I guess this is the only real difference from the 09Pro...



Very svelte.


----------



## erockg

jant71 said:


> I was like why do we have this...
> https://www.amazon.com/CCA-Bluetooth-Wireless-Microphone-Headphones/dp/B09QGLKSW3/ref=sr_1_66?crid=3LKKXI3M1X6LJ&keywords=true+wireless+aptX&qid=1642264995&sprefix=true+wireless+aptx,aps,92&sr=8-66
> 
> I guess this is the only difference from the 09Pro...
> ...


I saw those too.  I'll look deeper at them.  I had the 09 Pro arriving today via Amazon and cancelled yesterday.  The BT30s are decent and great to have as I bought the 2 Pin and MMCX adapters so they can be swapped out.  Mostly using them with 2 Pin IEMs but nice to have an MMCX option.


----------



## erockg

James-uk said:


> ￡26.67  8％ Off | Super Mini MMCX/0.78MM Female To Sennheiser IE300/IE900 Headphone Conversion Pin Conversion Head Adapter
> https://a.aliexpress.com/_mMbUydi


Thanks.  So crazy they want to charge that much!


----------



## Ceeluh7

erockg said:


> I saw those too.  I'll look deeper at them.  I had the 09 Pro arriving today via Amazon and cancelled yesterday.  The BT30s are decent and great to have as I bought the 2 Pin and MMCX adapters so they can be swapped out.  Mostly using them with 2 Pin IEMs but nice to have an MMCX option.


These are basically the kz az09 or az09 pro. The same as all their iems as they are sister companies. I'm sure it is nice. There is always slight tonality differences between their products...very slight. I don't know how many kz or cca iems you've had but they just repeat each other


----------



## James-uk

erockg said:


> Thanks.  So crazy they want to charge that much!


I know, I couldn’t find any other options though so decided it was the only way. They are good quality though for what they are so should last the life of the IE900 and see the fiio out.


----------



## erockg

Ceeluh7 said:


> These are basically the kz az09 or az09 pro. The same as all their iems as they are sister companies. I'm sure it is nice. There is always slight tonality differences between their products...very slight. I don't know how many kz or cca iems you've had but they just repeat each other


Everyone steals the specs out there.  Kind of sad.


----------



## erockg

James-uk said:


> I know, I couldn’t find any other options though so decided it was the only way. They are good quality though for what they are so should last the life of the IE900 and see the fiio out.


The only thing holding me back with checking out the Sennies was that adapter, but now that I know it works per you, the wild hair will sprout


----------



## BooleanBones

erockg said:


> The only thing holding me back with checking out the Sennies was that adapter, but now that I know it works per you, the wild hair will sprout


Those things are uber small and very comfortable. I am half glad the 900s are not easily obtained or I would be minus 1200$ right now


----------



## erockg

BooleanBones said:


> Those things are uber small and very comfortable. I am half glad the 900s are not easily obtained or I would be minus 1200$ right now


I'm consolidating my collection and seriously thinking of going all-in on a very very good IEM.  I'll still keep a few TWS buds, but the TWS adapter opens up a world of beauty


----------



## Phaethon

Well, I thought maybe I’d been too rough on the Fiios so I put the Blessing 2s on the two pin and went to walk the dog. I turned them on and paired them in the driveway and noticed the voice in the left unit didn’t say connected. This had happened before and I had just turned the Bluetooth off on my iPhone and it corrected itself when I turned it back on and reconnected the units. This time it didn’t work so I took them out of my ears to put back in the case and the IEM dropped off the unit and fell (fortunately!) into my hand. I carefully reconnected it to the two pins on the unit and was particularly careful to push it was on until it was flush with the unit and chalked it up to user error. I checked the other unit to make sure it was on tightly and went walking with the pooch. Everything was perfect until a couple of blocks later the OTHER IEM (the one that had not dropped out but I had double checked anyway) fell off the unit but not into my hand this time. IEM + Concrete = a chipped Moondrop Blessing 2 bud. Soon you should be able to purchase my UTWS5 MMCX and 2 pin from the Amazon Warehouse as “Used - Like New.”

On a much more fun note I’d love to do poll and ranking of the assistants voices on TWS and Wireless Adapters.

My top three:
1) Shure (she’s got some quality in her voice that sounds like she’s smirking)
2) Kinera (Asian woman’s voice that is not anime cutesy)
3) Sony (this is the efficient secretary I need)

What are your favorites?


----------



## Aevum

Its normal  i have the UTWS3, the moondrops are VERY picky about what cables they like, the Fiio 0.78mm fall off, but the nicehck seems to hold on. 

also costed 80 euros in shipping and repairing my blessings 2 to learn that,


----------



## BooleanBones

Phaethon said:


> On a much more fun note I’d love to do poll and ranking of the assistants voices on TWS and Wireless Adapters.
> 
> My top three:
> 1) Shure (she’s got some quality in her voice that sounds like she’s smirking)
> ...


I am kind of partial to the gal on my B&Ws


----------



## Sam L

Anyone know what the differences are between the kz az09 pro and the az10? Looks like the 10 is a sport version


----------



## Phaethon

BooleanBones said:


> I am kind of partial to the gal on my B&Ws


I had to go dig out my PX7s to remind myself. Good choice!


----------



## Ceeluh7

erockg said:


> I'm consolidating my collection and seriously thinking of going all-in on a very very good IEM.  I'll still keep a few TWS buds, but the TWS adapter opens up a world of beauty


Agreed. Next you need to venture into the Btr5, Qudelix, Ifi go Blu territory. But boy do I agree with you about the adapters


----------



## Ceeluh7

erockg said:


> I got those BT30s from Hifigo yesterday.  Not bad.  You do need to crank them on an iPhone to power the Moondrop Variations best.  Theiaudio buds do not need as much power.  Still assessing if they truly affect sound as different as the Fiio adapters.


Wow...cool man...I am very very interested in what you find out man. I figured they wouldn't have much crazy power to push, prob only sensitive iems. I am wondering about tonality next to the Fiio and kz units. Maybe they have a great sound


----------



## mtl171

CA MT are going back to Amazon. When they paired they were fantastic, but when they didnt...😡I also realized I missed the fantastic passthrough on the APP, so likely going to look into some more open options like earbuds or bone conduction.


----------



## samandhi

Phaethon said:


> On a much more fun note I’d love to do poll and ranking of the assistants voices on TWS and Wireless Adapters.
> 
> My top three:
> 1) Shure (she’s got some quality in her voice that sounds like she’s smirking)
> ...


Gotta' be Sennheiser Momentum 2.0 Wireless for me. Or maybe even my ole' Jawbone Big Jambox if we are allowed to go that way with it. Of course, you could download and use one of MANY different voices they had available for those. 


mtl171 said:


> CA MT are going back to Amazon. When they paired they were fantastic, but when they didnt...😡I also realized I missed the fantastic passthrough on the APP, so likely going to look into some more open options like earbuds or bone conduction.


Wait! Did they remove passthrough from the MT? I guess I haven't used mine for some time so that would be news to me.


----------



## jant71

I bought these just to have a little fun...




9D!! Like taking 3D and making that 3D!


----------



## mtl171

samandhi said:


> Wait! Did they remove passthrough from the MT? I guess I haven't used mine for some time so that would be news to me.


Pass through is still there. Its just really not great compared to the APP. Though I also haven't experienced anything matching the APP in pass through so may be the exception rather then the norm.


----------



## erockg

jant71 said:


> I bought these just to have a little fun...
> 
> 9D!! Like taking 3D and making that 3D!


Sigh...


----------



## jant71 (Jan 15, 2022)

erockg said:


> Sigh...


Yes, I will put the cheapest ANC TWS to the test! Not even going in blind either as two real alive people say they sound "good". Okay one using it to listen to TV over BT and the other did not know how to turn the ANC on but still. Plus a video showing they work on a cell phone and the tracks change and everything.


----------



## guitarizt (Jan 15, 2022)

Ceeluh7 said:


> So you were using the Btr5 as a dac straight to your iphone & pc?


Yep. I haven't tried BT yet.

Got sick of waiting for the arias and cable with adapters. Ordered a 2 pin and mmcx to 2.5mm balanced cables and tripowin mele from linsoul on amazon. ETA mon. I've learned I can't wait for things. =D

Curious about the mele. That one yt reviewer loves them. One comment on his video said they replaced their sony z1r's with them, lol. A C+ from crin and B- from giz audio prob more realistic. Just too curious for only $50.


----------



## Ceeluh7

guitarizt said:


> Yep. I haven't tried BT yet.
> 
> Got sick of waiting for the arias and cable with adapters. Ordered a 2 pin and mmcx to 2.5mm balanced cables and tripowin mele from linsoul on amazon. ETA mon. I've learned I can't wait for things. =D
> 
> Curious about the mele. That one yt reviewer loves them. One comment on his video said they replaced their sony z1r's with them, lol. A C+ from crin and B- from giz audio prob more realistic. Just too curious for only $50.


I own the Mele...what a great budget set. I actually ended up putting it on my utws5 at the moment. I love the sound sig on them. BGGAR did a hell of a job on the Mele. It was supposed to be an upgrade to the Blon 03 and for the most part it is. The Bass is delicious and the tonality is slightly warmish yet natural. Nice job on that one man. What color did you go with


----------



## guitarizt (Jan 15, 2022)

Ceeluh7 said:


> I own the Mele...what a great budget set. I actually ended up putting it on my utws5 at the moment. I love the sound sig on them. BGGAR did a hell of a job on the Mele. It was supposed to be an upgrade to the Blon 03 and for the most part it is. The Bass is delicious and the tonality is slightly warmish yet natural. Nice job on that one man. What color did you go with


Went with black. Actually I prob should have asked first, but the lea for 26 prob isn't worth it?

I'm curious how balanced cables will sound. I'm hoping I can't tell any diff or they don't matter with the timeless, aria, and mele.


----------



## Ceeluh7

guitarizt said:


> Went with black. Actually I prob should have asked first, but the lea for 26 prob isn't worth it?
> 
> I'm curious how balanced cables will sound. I'm hoping I can't tell any diff or they don't matter with the timeless, aria, and mele.


Dude...the lea for 26 is a no brainer. I own the tripowin Tc01 which is just an awesome set for 40ish usd and the Mele is wonderful as tripowins flagship at the moment but the Lea has gotten very good reviews. BGGAR describes the tonality as the same as the moondrop Kato. Tripowin does it right. There is a new BGGAR coming out that is an upgrade to the Mele...I don't know when. 
I use balanced cable primarily just because on almost every device the more output power comes from the balanced port. Normally the sound opens up with more depth and soundstage,dynamics among other things. Not all iems hugely benefit but most do imo. You can find good balanced cables like tripowin c8 for 25-30 on Amazon. Really most of the Amazon balanced cables are great. You also have to take into account the type of cable...spc (silver plated copper) or pure copper etc which changes tonality a bit which matters to which iem you choose.


----------



## samandhi

Been a while since I visited this thread, so don't roast me for asking if it has been answered?! How does the UTWS5 sound on AptX only? I don't have anything capable of Adaptive. Only HD, but AFAIK having Adaptive on the UTWS5 and HD on the phone won't work. That will revert back to AptX (regular). If this is not true let me know?!

I know I could just get the UTWS3, but the 5 is almost double the power output, and I want to use my P1 (planar) with them, and IIRC the iBasso CF01 (similar power) will run them but with no headroom, and I suspect, not to their full potential.


----------



## guitarizt

Ceeluh7 said:


> Dude...the lea for 26 is a no brainer. I own the tripowin Tc01 which is just an awesome set for 40ish usd and the Mele is wonderful as tripowins flagship at the moment but the Lea has gotten very good reviews. BGGAR describes the tonality as the same as the moondrop Kato. Tripowin does it right. There is a new BGGAR coming out that is an upgrade to the Mele...I don't know when.
> I use balanced cable primarily just because on almost every device the more output power comes from the balanced port. Normally the sound opens up with more depth and soundstage,dynamics among other things. Not all iems hugely benefit but most do imo. You can find good balanced cables like tripowin c8 for 25-30 on Amazon. Really most of the Amazon balanced cables are great. You also have to take into account the type of cable...spc (silver plated copper) or pure copper etc which changes tonality a bit which matters to which iem you choose.


I got the zonie 16. All silver vs the silver copper core of the c8 I guess. $20 vs $30 as well, and I got two pairs, one for mmcx and one for 2 pin. I have the Kinera Leyding 5N OFC Alloy Copper 8 Core Silver-Plated Hybrid Cable coming hopefully this month.

Thanks, just ordered the lea. Also ordered the kz crinacle crn. Just too tempting for the price, and can get it in a couple of days from linsoul on amazon. I'm hoping the reviews of it are in line with what I'll think of it, that it's just under the galaxy pros and timeless and I won't like them so I can stop the sub 100- madness, lol. The galaxy pros are where the minimum bar is set for me right now.


----------



## chinmie

Ceeluh7 said:


> Agreed. Next you need to venture into the Btr5, Qudelix, Ifi go Blu territory. But boy do I agree with you about the adapters



my journey is the other way around, going with dongles first (es100, btr5, etc), then going to the tws adapters. I'm still keeping both options: ongles for when I'm really want to listen to music (and for my non detachable earphones, of course), and tws adapters for more casual listening. 

once we experienced the non wired options, it's hard to go back having those wire tugging along the ears and neck again though 



jant71 said:


> Yes, I will put the cheapest ANC TWS to the test! Not even going in blind either as two real alive people say they sound "good". Okay one using it to listen to TV over BT and the other did not know how to turn the ANC on but still. Plus a video showing they work on a cell phone and the tracks change and everything.



I'm still loving this old cheap ANC tws (Airsun X8) , especially for riding. it's got the right amount of street rumble sound blocking while still letting me hear important sound like horns and people for safety. the sound signature is warm with almost inoffensively neutral tuning, great for long listening. also the physical buttons are a joy to use under the helmet. 

iif there's an update to newer bt tech/chipsets while keeping the same form factor, I'd buy these again in a heart beat


----------



## Ceeluh7 (Jan 15, 2022)

guitarizt said:


> I got the zonie 16. All silver vs the silver copper core of the c8 I guess. $20 vs $30 as well, and I got two pairs, one for mmcx and one for 2 pin. I have the Kinera Leyding 5N OFC Alloy Copper 8 Core Silver-Plated Hybrid Cable coming hopefully this month.
> 
> Thanks, just ordered the lea. Also ordered the kz crinacle crn. Just too tempting for the price, and can get it in a couple of days from linsoul on amazon. I'm hoping the reviews of it are in line with what I'll think of it, that it's just under the galaxy pros and timeless and I won't like them so I can stop the sub 100- madness, lol. The galaxy pros are where the minimum bar is set for me right now.


I have 5 or 6 Zonies...great cables. Also the fdbro cables are very cheap and nice. It is harder to find decent 5 or 6n copper cables that are cheaper. There are a few which are fantastic. Tripowin altea is awesome. I like copper because it'll tone down brighter sets a bit. Anyways, the Lea will be good and the zex pros are just well tuned. As far as quiting the under 100 madness...good luck man, the problem is is that the budget sets really do compete and the quality you get is unbelievable anymore. This used to be unheard of. I think you made 2 solid choices. I have been in the chifi craze for about 3 or 4 years now...lol....so I can attest that it is hard to quit as they just keep getting better all the way around. Let me know what you think of Lea. I would prob pair it with that spc cable, so the Zonies will work good


----------



## Ceeluh7

chinmie said:


> my journey is the other way around, going with dongles first (es100, btr5, etc), then going to the tws adapters. I'm still keeping both options: ongles for when I'm really want to listen to music (and for my non detachable earphones, of course), and tws adapters for more casual listening.
> 
> once we experienced the non wired options, it's hard to go back having those wire tugging along the ears and neck again though
> 
> ...


Ya that was my journey as well...my problem is I really do enjoy it all. I listen to dongle/dacs when I'm just chilling and can digest what I'm hearing a bit better. I got the Fiio ka3 a little while back and it is quite impressive for the price. Dongles as well just keep getting better and better. I don't even use my Dap anymore because of them


----------



## cresny

Phaethon said:


> Well, I thought maybe I’d been too rough on the Fiios so I put the Blessing 2s on the two pin and went to walk the dog. I turned them on and paired them in the driveway and noticed the voice in the left unit didn’t say connected. This had happened before and I had just turned the Bluetooth off on my iPhone and it corrected itself when I turned it back on and reconnected the units. This time it didn’t work so I took them out of my ears to put back in the case and the IEM dropped off the unit and fell (fortunately!) into my hand. I carefully reconnected it to the two pins on the unit and was particularly careful to push it was on until it was flush with the unit and chalked it up to user error. I checked the other unit to make sure it was on tightly and went walking with the pooch. Everything was perfect until a couple of blocks later the OTHER IEM (the one that had not dropped out but I had double checked anyway) fell off the unit but not into my hand this time. IEM + Concrete = a chipped Moondrop Blessing 2 bud. Soon you should be able to purchase my UTWS5 MMCX and 2 pin from the Amazon Warehouse as “Used - Like New.”
> 
> On a much more fun note I’d love to do poll and ranking of the assistants voices on TWS and Wireless Adapters.
> 
> ...


From what I've gathered I'm guessing these don't work as well with iPhone as they do with Android.  I've gone ahead and order them based on that hunch. sorry I'm missing your warehouse deal!


----------



## guitarizt

The btr5 opened my eyes or should I say ears to how much bt sucks. Maybe it's just the amp with the timeless, though, as my galaxy pros still sound great with iphone.

I'm semi-tempted by the tw2's now because the se215's are 100 by themselves, so it's only about 130 more for the bt hooks. But I'm thinking I'll use the galaxy pros for tws and btr5 + wired iem now. Also will prob get the airpod 2 pros when they come out if they're lossless. I'm thinking I might detour into over the ears or go through the crinacle line or maybe be happy for now and wait a bit longer for the monarch mk2's.


----------



## Tommy C

mtl171 said:


> Pass through is still there. Its just really not great compared to the APP. Though I also haven't experienced anything matching the APP in pass through so may be the exception rather then the norm.


Shure TWS and 1More Comfobuds Pro both have really good ambient mode. 
Shure is adjustable and can be amplified and well executed and works while on calls too. The 1More is more leveled  and not available during phone calls.


----------



## erockg

Ceeluh7 said:


> Wow...cool man...I am very very interested in what you find out man. I figured they wouldn't have much crazy power to push, prob only sensitive iems. I am wondering about tonality next to the Fiio and kz units. Maybe they have a great sound


I'm really on the fence here.  Now, mind you, this is only with my Moondrop Variations.  The Fiio 3s sound better than the 5s with the MMXC - 2 Pin adapter and I don't know why.  I feel the 5s sound is recessed with that damn adapter.  It seems to be hit or miss for me.  Sometimes they sound recessed, sometimes not.  Not sure where or why this is happening.  Happened with the last OE adapter I tried.  Maybe it's something to do with the Variations through an adapter on my end.  I don't know.  Whereas the 3s and even the BT30s sound fine.  The 3s add a bit more punch to the sub-bass of the Variations.  Guessing that it's because they have more power than the BT30.  Again, you know more than me, so I don't know, I'm probably wrong there.  You still have to crank the TRN adapters to get there.  They hug your ears like the TW2s.  I was using an  old song that's Lossless (Cinderella's "Nobody's Fool"), but maybe not really the best to QC with.  It's older and not remastered.  Then, I popped on "Now That We're Dead" by Metallica and yeah, besides melting my brain with that opening riff, you can still hear those same results - 3, BT30 and then 5 over here.  But not really _that_ much of a difference.  Just being nitpicky.  It's definitely all about the source.  The Metallica song is Hi-Res Lossless on Apple Music, the other is only Lossless and again probably never remastered.  So, I would say if you want a cool modular adapter get the BT30.  Buy an extra arm/adapter that is easily interchangeable.  If not, you can save a few bucks with the 3 instead of the 5.  I exchanged the Thieaudio Legacy 5s for the Mangrid Tea.  We'll see how that one performs with the TWS adapters.  As you can see, I keep moving on up to the east side.


----------



## erockg

Ceeluh7 said:


> Agreed. Next you need to venture into the Btr5, Qudelix, Ifi go Blu territory. But boy do I agree with you about the adapters


Don't get me started.  Ugh.  I'm chasing a dream over here.  Found it with the TWS buds and still searching for one more IEM to compliment my Variations.


----------



## samandhi

Ceeluh7 said:


> I have 5 or 6 Zonies...great cables. Also the fdbro cables are very cheap and nice. It is harder to find decent 5 or 6n copper cables that are cheaper. There are a few which are fantastic. Tripowin altea is awesome. I like copper because it'll tone down brighter sets a bit. Anyways, the Lea will be good and the zex pros are just well tuned. As far as quiting the under 100 madness...good luck man, the problem is is that the budget sets really do compete and the quality you get is unbelievable anymore. This used to be unheard of. I think you made 2 solid choices. I have been in the chifi craze for about 3 or 4 years now...lol....so I can attest that it is hard to quit as they just keep getting better all the way around. Let me know what you think of Lea. I would prob pair it with that spc cable, so the Zonies will work good


I am a big fan of the FDbro SPC cables. Bought one just to have a spare, and I actually use it as a main nowadays. For cables, it seems the quality is going up and the price is coming down. It is nothing to get a decent Litz SPC or Graphene mix cable for under $30 now. Also, I agree the Zonie cables are great too.


----------



## Ceeluh7

erockg said:


> I'm really on the fence here.  Now, mind you, this is only with my Moondrop Variations.  The Fiio 3s sound better than the 5s with the MMXC - 2 Pin adapter and I don't know why.  I feel the 5s sound is recessed with that damn adapter.  It seems to be hit or miss for me.  Sometimes they sound recessed, sometimes not.  Not sure where or why this is happening.  Happened with the last OE adapter I tried.  Maybe it's something to do with the Variations through an adapter on my end.  I don't know.  Whereas the 3s and even the BT30s sound fine.  The 3s add a bit more punch to the sub-bass of the Variations.  Guessing that it's because they have more power than the BT30.  Again, you know more than me, so I don't know, I'm probably wrong there.  You still have to crank the TRN adapters to get there.  They hug your ears like the TW2s.  I was using an  old song that's Lossless (Cinderella's "Nobody's Fool"), but maybe not really the best to QC with.  It's older and not remastered.  Then, I popped on "Now That We're Dead" by Metallica and yeah, besides melting my brain with that opening riff, you can still hear those same results - 3, BT30 and then 5 over here.  But not really _that_ much of a difference.  Just being nitpicky.  It's definitely all about the source.  The Metallica song is Hi-Res Lossless on Apple Music, the other is only Lossless and again probably never remastered.  So, I would say if you want a cool modular adapter get the BT30.  Buy an extra arm/adapter that is easily interchangeable.  If not, you can save a few bucks with the 3 instead of the 5.  I exchanged the Thieaudio Legacy 5s for the Mangrid Tea.  We'll see how that one performs with the TWS adapters.  As you can see, I keep moving on up to the east side.


First off... The a mangird Tea is an amazing set. It ranks on many top 5 under 500. Great purchase. 
If anything I would think that the mmcx to 2 pin adapters are the problem as I woulsnt think that the utws5 would do anything but sound amazing with a set like the variations. I would Def bet that there is an issue at that point, something with the adapters. Do you have any issues when you do not use those adapters? I'll be honest, I have a ton of iems and I have tried damn near every 2 pin iem that I have with the 5 and it has sounded really really good. I did use my 2 pin-mmcx adapter for a fiio set that I have and I did not have an issue. What adapters did you buy... I have been using the adapters in the attached photo.


----------



## erockg

Phaethon said:


> Well, I thought maybe I’d been too rough on the Fiios so I put the Blessing 2s on the two pin and went to walk the dog. I turned them on and paired them in the driveway and noticed the voice in the left unit didn’t say connected. This had happened before and I had just turned the Bluetooth off on my iPhone and it corrected itself when I turned it back on and reconnected the units. This time it didn’t work so I took them out of my ears to put back in the case and the IEM dropped off the unit and fell (fortunately!) into my hand. I carefully reconnected it to the two pins on the unit and was particularly careful to push it was on until it was flush with the unit and chalked it up to user error. I checked the other unit to make sure it was on tightly and went walking with the pooch. Everything was perfect until a couple of blocks later the OTHER IEM (the one that had not dropped out but I had double checked anyway) fell off the unit but not into my hand this time. IEM + Concrete = a chipped Moondrop Blessing 2 bud. Soon you should be able to purchase my UTWS5 MMCX and 2 pin from the Amazon Warehouse as “Used - Like New.”
> 
> On a much more fun note I’d love to do poll and ranking of the assistants voices on TWS and Wireless Adapters.
> 
> ...


I haven't even ventured outside with the Fiio yet.  I do have issues indoors with the Fiio UTWS3.  Can't have walls in the way, whereas the 5s work good.  I'll have to try them outside soon.  I did many times with the Shure TW2 and zero issues.

I remember being hypnotized by the voice on the Bragi Dash Pro TWS buds.  She liked to say my name.


----------



## Ceeluh7

samandhi said:


> I am a big fan of the FDbro SPC cables. Bought one just to have a spare, and I actually use it as a main nowadays. For cables, it seems the quality is going up and the price is coming down. It is nothing to get a decent Litz SPC or Graphene mix cable for under $30 now. Also, I agree the Zonie cables are great too.


100% agree... I still am baffled by how good the quality is and how nice the cables actually are. HifiHear makes great cables as well, **** cables are great. I did have issues with a couple of the kbear 24 core cables... QC issues. Other than that I've bought a ton of them because they are so cheap. Honestly every iem I buy I also purchase a cable for balanced... Amazon has sooo many to choose from. That's cool, you've heard of the fdbro cables... Nobody ever knows what I'm talking about with those


----------



## Ceeluh7

guitarizt said:


> The btr5 opened my eyes or should I say ears to how much bt sucks. Maybe it's just the amp with the timeless, though, as my galaxy pros still sound great with iphone.
> 
> I'm semi-tempted by the tw2's now because the se215's are 100 by themselves, so it's only about 130 more for the bt hooks. But I'm thinking I'll use the galaxy pros for tws and btr5 + wired iem now. Also will prob get the airpod 2 pros when they come out if they're lossless. I'm thinking I might detour into over the ears or go through the crinacle line or maybe be happy for now and wait a bit longer for the monarch mk2's.


You have not tried the BTR5 over bt yet? The BTR5 even over AAC on iOS is ridiculously good. Now the downside is you'll have a cable and the BTR5 in your pocket but the bt is fantastic on that lil beast


----------



## erockg

Ceeluh7 said:


> First off... The a mangird Tea is an amazing set. It ranks on many top 5 under 500. Great purchase.
> If anything I would think that the mmcx to 2 pin adapters are the problem as I woulsnt think that the utws5 would do anything but sound amazing with a set like the variations. I would Def bet that there is an issue at that point, something with the adapters. Do you have any issues when you do not use those adapters? I'll be honest, I have a ton of iems and I have tried damn near every 2 pin iem that I have with the 5 and it has sounded really really good. I did use my 2 pin-mmcx adapter for a fiio set that I have and I did not have an issue. What adapters did you buy... I have been using the adapters in the attached photo.


I keep reading great things about the Tea.  Although, they say they're comparable to the Legacy 5, but I guess we'll see.  The Tea make lists, the L5 seemingly do not.

I had those OE adapters in the left pic and also the OKCSC adapters now.  Both having/had the same weird issue.  But again, not always.  I'll try a reset, repair, reboot, worthless thing a call center tech rep would tell me to do.


----------



## Ceeluh7

guitarizt said:


> The btr5 opened my eyes or should I say ears to how much bt sucks. Maybe it's just the amp with the timeless, though, as my galaxy pros still sound great with iphone.
> 
> I'm semi-tempted by the tw2's now because the se215's are 100 by themselves, so it's only about 130 more for the bt hooks. But I'm thinking I'll use the galaxy pros for tws and btr5 + wired iem now. Also will prob get the airpod 2 pros when they come out if they're lossless. I'm thinking I might detour into over the ears or go through the crinacle line or maybe be happy for now and wait a bit longer for the monarch mk2's.


You have not tried the BTR5 over bt yet? The BTR5 even over AAC on iOS is ridiculously good. Now the downside is you'll have a cable and the BTR5 in your pocket but the bt is fantastic on that lil beast


----------



## samandhi

Ceeluh7 said:


> 100% agree... I still am baffled by how good the quality is and how nice the cables actually are. HifiHear makes great cables as well, **** cables are great. I did have issues with a couple of the kbear 24 core cables... QC issues. Other than that I've bought a ton of them because they are so cheap. Honestly every iem I buy I also purchase a cable for balanced... Amazon has sooo many to choose from. That's cool, you've heard of the fdbro cables... Nobody ever knows what I'm talking about with those


IKR? I have mentioned it in other threads and.... crickets. LOL

The latest I use the FDbro on:



Spoiler


----------



## Ceeluh7

samandhi said:


> IKR? I have mentioned it in other threads and.... crickets. LOL
> 
> The latest I use the FDbro on:
> 
> ...


That's a thing of beauty man. BTW there is a challenger out now to the Timeless... The letshuoer s12... A few reviewers have said that it rivals the Timeless pretty good. More of a traditional iem form factor. Anyways, I'm glad someone can relate with me about those cables... Nice


----------



## Ceeluh7

erockg said:


> I keep reading great things about the Tea.  Although, they say they're comparable to the Legacy 5, but I guess we'll see.  The Tea make lists, the L5 seemingly do not.
> 
> I had those OE adapters in the left pic and also the OKCSC adapters now.  Both having/had the same weird issue.  But again, not always.  I'll try a reset, repair, reboot, worthless thing a call center tech rep would tell me to do.


The Tea is flat out a great set. It does everything well. 

I hope you get this adapter situation figured out. I will try again and listen a little closer for anything odd in the tonality with those adapters... Just seems really odd


----------



## dmphile

BooleanBones said:


> You might ask @James-uk what adapter he used to get his IE900s working with the Fiio adapter. Looks like he has it working well.


I may have to give up on the search. I haven't seen anything that would guarantee compatibility and don't want to pay 60+ for uncertainty. :/ I did order the arias and an adapter for mmcx to 2 pin tho lol


----------



## cresny

Ceeluh7 said:


> That's a thing of beauty man. BTW there is a challenger out now to the Timeless... The letshuoer s12... A few reviewers have said that it rivals the Timeless pretty good. More of a traditional iem form factor. Anyways, I'm glad someone can relate with me about those cables... Nice


I have a pair coming, pairing with the utws5.  Unfortunately it's my first such setup so I don't have any comps, but I'll report back here nevertheless.


----------



## samandhi

Ceeluh7 said:


> That's a thing of beauty man. BTW there is a challenger out now to the Timeless... The letshuoer s12... A few reviewers have said that it rivals the Timeless pretty good. More of a traditional iem form factor. Anyways, I'm glad someone can relate with me about those cables... Nice


Thanks! Yeah, I have been reading about that one. I'm truly on the fence about needing another planar. Not that I don't absoulutely love them, but I JUST got the Timeless. I may have to pass on this one for a time (but maybe later). I am excited that more and more companies are on the planar bandwagon. It can only benefit us honestly.



cresny said:


> I have a pair coming, pairing with the utws5.  Unfortunately it's my first such setup so I don't have any comps, but I'll report back here nevertheless.


Do I am interested in hearing how they run on the Fiio solution. I am also considering the UTWS5 myself, but I don't have anything that can do AptX Adaptive, and it is not backwards compatible with AptX HD, only AptX, and was hoping to hear from someone here on how they sound (in comparison) running only on AptX. If it isn't in the stars then so be it. I still have a few pairs of TWS, and lots of IEMs, and don't really mind cables (in all honesty). Just wanted to check the water temperature...


----------



## erockg

Ceeluh7 said:


> That's a thing of beauty man. BTW there is a challenger out now to the Timeless... The letshuoer s12... A few reviewers have said that it rivals the Timeless pretty good. More of a traditional iem form factor. Anyways, I'm glad someone can relate with me about those cables... Nice


I was watching that review of the S12 earlier today. Much better form factor in comparison to the Timeless imo. Honestly, I really didn’t like the fit of the Timeless no matter how many tips I tried. These S12s look so much better.


----------



## samandhi

erockg said:


> I was watching that review of the S12 earlier today. Much better form factor in comparison to the Timeless imo. Honestly, I really didn’t like the fit of the Timeless no matter how many tips I tried. These S12s look so much better.


That's surprising to me. You are only like the 2nd person that I have seen that has had issue with fitment for the Timeless (even though it looks like it would fit maybe 10 people hehe). Hopefully the S12 will check all the marks for you then?!


----------



## Ceeluh7

samandhi said:


> Thanks! Yeah, I have been reading about that one. I'm truly on the fence about needing another planar. Not that I don't absoulutely love them, but I JUST got the Timeless. I may have to pass on this one for a time (but maybe later). I am excited that more and more companies are on the planar bandwagon. It can only benefit us honestly.
> 
> 
> Do I am interested in hearing how they run on the Fiio solution. I am also considering the UTWS5 myself, but I don't have anything that can do AptX Adaptive, and it is not backwards compatible with AptX HD, only AptX, and was hoping to hear from someone here on how they sound (in comparison) running only on AptX. If it isn't in the stars then so be it. I still have a few pairs of TWS, and lots of IEMs, and don't really mind cables (in all honesty). Just wanted to check the water temperature...


I can confirm that the utws5 sound fantastic on aptx


----------



## Ceeluh7

erockg said:


> I was watching that review of the S12 earlier today. Much better form factor in comparison to the Timeless imo. Honestly, I really didn’t like the fit of the Timeless no matter how many tips I tried. These S12s look so much better.


They look like they would fit alot better. So far every review has been positive that I have come across. We are seeing legit planar iems for under 200, that is nuts. Tinhifi p1 and p1 plus were never to my liking. I think I will prob check this set out at some point. I'll wait on more reviews.


----------



## erockg

samandhi said:


> That's surprising to me. You are only like the 2nd person that I have seen that has had issue with fitment for the Timeless (even though it looks like it would fit maybe 10 people hehe). Hopefully the S12 will check all the marks for you then?!


Yup, too shallow for me.  I’m special.


----------



## mtl171

Tommy C said:


> Shure TWS and 1More Comfobuds Pro both have really good ambient mode.
> Shure is adjustable and can be amplified and well executed and works while on calls too. The 1More is more leveled  and not available during phone calls.


Thanks for the recommendation! The 1More has me intrigued especially with the price and their claim for 40db of NC. I honestly never even considered that ambient mode wouldn't be available during phone calls. Bonephones were ordered bit earlier in the day, though I'll keep these in mind if I end up going back to TWS.


----------



## LordToneeus

Ceeluh7 said:


> Dude...the lea for 26 is a no brainer. I own the tripowin Tc01 which is just an awesome set for 40ish usd and the Mele is wonderful as tripowins flagship at the moment but the Lea has gotten very good reviews. BGGAR describes the tonality as the same as the moondrop Kato. Tripowin does it right. There is a new BGGAR coming out that is an upgrade to the Mele...I don't know when.
> I use balanced cable primarily just because on almost every device the more output power comes from the balanced port. Normally the sound opens up with more depth and soundstage,dynamics among other things. Not all iems hugely benefit but most do imo. You can find good balanced cables like tripowin c8 for 25-30 on Amazon. Really most of the Amazon balanced cables are great. You also have to take into account the type of cable...spc (silver plated copper) or pure copper etc which changes tonality a bit which matters to which iem you choose.


Ah, you silver-tongued devils! Ordered the Lea‘s last night after reading this and checking out the Mele’s. I‘ve had my eye on the Timeless (waiting for price drop/coupon again), but now you have me considering the s12.


----------



## Ceeluh7

LordToneeus said:


> Ah, you silver-tongued devils! Ordered the Lea‘s last night after reading this and checking out the Mele’s. I‘ve had my eye on the Timeless (waiting for price drop/coupon again), but now you have me considering the s12.


Ya, definently watch some reviews on the S12. A few select reviewers have gotten their hands on them, all of whom I have grown to trust in their opinion over the years, that's just me though. So far it looks very very promising and for $50-70 cheaper than Timeless... That is fantastic. The Lea is an easy buy at $26...Tripowin was a cable making company who is really making a great name for themselves as an iem making company. Really, apart from their first set the Tp10, they have had only hits and no misses...


----------



## cresny

mtl171 said:


> Thanks for the recommendation! The 1More has me intrigued especially with the price and their claim for 40db of NC. I honestly never even considered that ambient mode wouldn't be available during phone calls. Bonephones were ordered bit earlier in the day, though I'll keep these in mind if I end up going back to TWS.


The comfobuds are just ok. For me the NC is below the Soundcore Liberty Air Pro, and those below the Gemini.  To make matters worse, they do not default to noise canceling and  for some reason, the touch controls do not always work for me from a non-phone device.


----------



## jant71 (Jan 16, 2022)

Let's start. What can you get now for about...




Calculation is a $39.99 TWS with 70% Prime discount making it $12.00 and then a 70% check this box discount off the $12.00. About tree fiddy worth of fun on a cold Sunday in January then I will gift them on.

About tree fiddy doesn't get you contact shield stickers so they need to charge but nothing to peel off






Plasticky but not that cheap and a nice look even if bland. Notice the oval tips in the first pic. These might be worth the under $4 price of admission by themselves. Those and a USB c cable actually are especially if these tips turn out to be good they will stay and I'll swap out before gifting. They are shorter TWS style tips with a wider oval shape bore. Interested to test them out.


----------



## C_Lindbergh

Been enjoying the AZ60 all day while doing chores, they just work, and work great too, ANC is pretty good, touch controls are superb, easy to switch to ambient (with music stoppage) etc. 

Pansonic/Technicas did a wonderful job with these


----------



## Ceeluh7

C_Lindbergh said:


> Been enjoying the AZ60 all day while doing chores, they just work, and work great too, ANC is pretty good, touch controls are superb, easy to switch to ambient (with music stoppage) etc.
> 
> Pansonic/Technicas did a wonderful job with these


They are a nice set. I loved the fit with them and the build, just nice. Maybe when the price drops again I will give them another try. I'm starting to think maybe I got a Lemon with the set I had.... Idk.


----------



## Ceeluh7

Guys i don't know how I missed this or did not know it but there is a High Gain mode on the KZ az09 pro. So if you click the right side 3 times that will enter you into High performance which is essentially 'gaming mode' but, (this is hidden and not in the included literature) if you click 3 times on the left it enters you into a 'High Gain Mode'. Somebody corrected me a bit ago and I tried it and.... Cool. It adds a few Db's to the Low end and a bit to the highs... Pretty cool. I have zero idea how I missed that


----------



## C_Lindbergh

Ceeluh7 said:


> They are a nice set. I loved the fit with them and the build, just nice. Maybe when the price drops again I will give them another try. I'm starting to think maybe I got a Lemon with the set I had.... Idk.



Yeah, the nice comfort along with the awesome ANC and how the set handles ambient mode is fantastic. I basically never took them out for hours whilst shopping and talking with cashiers etc because of the fit and how well they do ambient mode. 

Battery life is pretty good as well.


----------



## Ceeluh7

C_Lindbergh said:


> Yeah, the nice comfort along with the awesome ANC and how the set handles ambient mode is fantastic. I basically never took them out for hours whilst shopping and talking with cashiers etc because of the fit and how well they do ambient mode.
> 
> Battery life is pretty good as well.


Ya know, I promise the set I had came with such an odd tonality and I kind of ripped Technics a bit for it. I know I am repeating myself but I think I just had a bad set. I'm glad you are enjoying them, that is great to feel good about what you purchase and to actually get some good use out them. I did really like the way they looked as well as the fit. I remember being able to eq them to very nice sounding mids and vocals but was without some sub-bass/mid-bass. Kinda right in between the two. I'm going to try em out again for sure, check if I'm crazy or not... Lol


----------



## Juturna (Jan 16, 2022)

Ceeluh7 said:


> Ya know, I promise the set I had came with such an odd tonality and I kind of ripped Technics a bit for it. I know I am repeating myself but I think I just had a bad set. I'm glad you are enjoying them, that is great to feel good about what you purchase and to actually get some good use out them. I did really like the way they looked as well as the fit. I remember being able to eq them to very nice sounding mids and vocals but was without some sub-bass/mid-bass. Kinda right in between the two. I'm going to try em out again for sure, check if I'm crazy or not... Lol


I think you got a lemon honestly, because that doesn't vibe with what I'm hearing, not entirely anyway.
The mids are pretty great honestly, they are very vocal-forward (almost a bit too much... but just ALMOST).

The bass is 100% very present though, I would say almost too much at times.
I would like some more sub-bass though, and I would appreciate if the mid-bass was a bit faster and a bit clearer, it can occasionally sound slightly too muddy and warm, lacks a little bit of the instrument character and "bite".
I just put the 100hz band in the EQ down to -6 and the 315hz to -8 and the bass is still very much present at a level where it's almost... Maybe I wouldn't say that it's too much, but its just boosted in the wrong frequency, kinda. Too much mid-bass for my taste I would say, and I listen to plenty of bass-heavy music so it's not just that I'm some sort of treble-head, lol. But yeah I'm listening to a track that has a clear bass line but isn't meant to be a bass-bumping anthem and it still sounds plenty heavy on these settings to a point where I wish I had more EQ bands so I could fine-tune these even more.
I also have a hard time doing anything with the EQ that will make these sibilant even if I turn up the treble on them to the max, and I'm usually very sensitive to treble. Took me a bunch of time and eartips to be able to even stand listening to the Sennheiser MTW2's because they hurt my ears from the sibilance.

I find the ANC way worse than I expected when it comes to filtering out high frequency noise than I expected as well, but it seems a lot better than many other earbuds at filtering out low frequency-noises. I mean I know that high frequency noises are harder to cancel out, but I've definitely heard it done better on other headsets.

But overall they're a very solid earbud and they do sound really good, and I think when I've gotten used to the sound signature I will like them even more.
I know I sound like i'm ripping on them but they honestly do a lot of things right:
Battery life seems good so far, case has a decent size, the earbuds fit EXCELLENT in my ears, they feel like they're molded after my ear canals.
They also sound very clear in some frequencies, the mids are really good, the highs are solid enough as well.

It doesn't really sound like we're describing the same earbuds, right? Even to the point where I think the differences in our ears shouldn't make that huge of a difference, right?


----------



## dweaver

C_Lindbergh said:


> Been enjoying the AZ60 all day while doing chores, they just work, and work great too, ANC is pretty good, touch controls are superb, easy to switch to ambient (with music stoppage) etc.
> 
> Pansonic/Technicas did a wonderful job with these


I turned in the setting in the app to allow me to toggle from ANC to Ambient to Off. Love being able to have all 3 available from the touch mechanism.

Also find the signature to be very good in all areas. The mids are a bit forward but don't cross the line for me either and the bass is definitely not to lite for me but is slightly more rounded as compared to Sony but suits my music very well.

If @Ceeluh gets another pair I strongly suggest NOT modding the tips by removing the filter, I think it's more of a sound filter than just for wax. Use other tips if you want to experiment.


----------



## C_Lindbergh (Jan 16, 2022)

Personally I'm willing to sacrifice abit on the SQ-side, Im sure the Noble Fokus sounds a bit better than the AZ60.

But TWS are so much more than just sound quality, which is why I guess so many niched audio-companies have so much trouble with the overall package.

The AZ60 basically got the whole package except wireless charging, Bluetooth technology is also improving at a much faster rate than traditional audio, just look at the recent news with APTX lossless.


----------



## C_Lindbergh

Cant remember who shared these EQ-settings, but it seems to be doing a great job off taming that bass a bit.


----------



## jant71 (Jan 16, 2022)

Chapter 2 
Okay how about a name for this TWS. The sticker on the box says Westhiker and the manual says only model no. 706. So, Westhiker 706 it is, I guess. The little manual does have a decent English translation. They connected quickly and w/o any issue. Very light and easy to fit just need to have the tips oval opening the right direction.

Touch control is well done as far as registering sensitivity. No volume control and also no transparency mode as far as I can tell. ANC does work. Light. Just went over to the furnace that was running as I was checking the water level and tried out the ANC. About 30-35% reduction. Not much but it does do enough to notice. Better than some actually that cost quite a bit more. Sound is decent. Likable. Some bloat needing some run in at least but also I tried at CKS50TW tips on them since they are a shorter pair that would work with the case and the AT tips have a thick core that grip tight and indeed do what I thought...dampen some reverb. Right away tighter and cleaner sound with the AT tips.


----------



## jant71 (Jan 16, 2022)

C_Lindbergh said:


> But TWS are so much more than just sound quality, which is why I guess so many niched audio-companies have so much trouble with the overall package.
> 
> The AZ60 basically got the whole package except wireless charging, Bluetooth technology is also improving at a much faster rate than traditional audio, just look at the recent news with APTX lossless.


Speaking of aptX Loseless... https://www.monsterforever.com/product/dna-fit
Product page is up but not able to add them to the bag just yet though.


----------



## BooleanBones

jant71 said:


> Speaking of aptX Loseless... https://www.monsterforever.com/product/dna-fit
> Product page is up but not able to add them to the bag just yet though.


I am thinking those may be good for my outdoor chores. I might have to give them a chance


----------



## C_Lindbergh (Jan 16, 2022)

jant71 said:


> Speaking of aptX Loseless... https://www.monsterforever.com/product/dna-fit
> Product page is up but not able to add them to the bag just yet though.



No ANC/Ambient? A bit awkward/bulky looking as well, but I guess they can be a match for a person that's very outdoorsy.


----------



## BooleanBones

dweaver said:


> If @Ceeluh gets another pair I strongly suggest NOT modding the tips by removing the filter, I think it's more of a sound filter than just for wax. Use other tips if you want to experiment.


I think you are right on this. I tried different tips a while back and the sound lost some magic. I might play with this some today to double check.


----------



## Ceeluh7

Juturna said:


> I think you got a lemon honestly, because that doesn't vibe with what I'm hearing, not entirely anyway.
> The mids are pretty great honestly, they are very vocal-forward (almost a bit too much... but just ALMOST).
> 
> The bass is 100% very present though, I would say almost too much at times.
> ...


100%.....ya the set I had was ridiculously sibilant on all sources, fiio m11, galaxy note 10+ and on all music players like poweramp, uapp, Hiby Player... No eq could get rid of it. I had a perfect seal and tried every tip I could find. I did get them to respectable and to where I was pretty okay with them.... Just not $240 worth of okay. I'm going with Lemon


----------



## jant71 (Jan 16, 2022)

C_Lindbergh said:


> No ANC/Ambient? A bit awkward/bulky looking as well, but I guess they can be a match for a person that's very outdoorsy.





Obviously the page is not done yet and missing some stuff. Sure we will get a manual and specs pages after a bit. Supposed to be a new Monster site so this is all going up step by step.


----------



## Ceeluh7

BooleanBones said:


> I think you are right on this. I tried different tips a while back and the sound lost some magic. I might play with this some today to double check.


Honestly, removing the filter helped alot actually. Lol... Dude I was doing anything to help this set sound okay. The foam left the highs muffled and boxed in along with the vocals, sibilance was there no matter what so it really didn't affect these for the worse but for the better. Anything in that tube will at least a little bit alter the sound. Truthfully I am thinking maybe I just had an odd pair. I respect the people in this group who have this set and can't u Der stand wth I am talking about... Lol. I promise though man, they weren't all that great. Also, I have had lemons before... Oh well


----------



## dweaver (Jan 16, 2022)

Lemons happen, my pair now has the weird tick sound when walking around. Will ikely be getting mine RMA'd

I also got mine on sale for $199 CAD, it helps when you can get a great deal  my level of critique goes up the more I pair for something LOL.


----------



## Ceeluh7

dweaver said:


> Lemons happen, my pair now has the weird tick sound when walking around. Will ikely be getting mine RMA'd
> 
> I also got mine on sale for $199 CAD, it helps when you can get a great deal  my level of critique goes up the more I pair for something LOL.


Yep... My thoughts exactly. If I'm paying almost 250.....it better be damn good.


----------



## Canabuc

C_Lindbergh said:


> Cant remember who shared these EQ-settings, but it seems to be doing a great job off taming that bass a bit.


Weird I love the bass on these. I find it has texture and is tight and that the sub bass is good I don't find it colors the mids.
In fact I EQ the bass a bit higher in the 100 Hz range but also bring up the mids and treble a bit sort of w shape on the EQ.


----------



## Canabuc (Jan 16, 2022)

Ceeluh7 said:


> Yep... My thoughts exactly. If I'm paying almost 250.....it better be damn good.


I also paid 200$ Canadian or about 160$USD.
I feel with the evolution in tws happening so fast I am not keen on spending a lot vs say an IEM which will be up for years.
But as battery connectivity and ANC keep getting better it feels a tws bud really has at most a 2 year shelf life before an upgrade model makes sense.


----------



## BooleanBones

Canabuc said:


> Weird I love the bass on these. I find it has texture and is tight and that the sub bass is good I don't find it colors the mids.
> In fact I EQ the bass a bit higher in the 100 Hz range but also bring up the mids and treble a bit sort of w shape on the EQ.


I have a bit of a W as well. Sounds good on these.


----------



## Aevum

the AZ10 is low latency gaming oriented, it dosnt have APTX or APTX Adaptive

i would stick to the AZ09 pro


----------



## Ceeluh7

Canabuc said:


> I also paid 200$ Canadian or about 160$USD.
> I feel with the evolution in tws happening so fast I am not keen on spending a lot vs say an IEM which will be up for years.
> But as battery connectivity and ANC keep getting better it feels a tws bud really has at most a 2 year shelf life before an upgrade model makes sense.


Ya... It's a balancing act for sure for where money is best spent. You are absolutely right about iems as opposed to a set of tws. I spend way way more money on iems, dongles, cables, the occasional DAP. The investment lasts for years upon years. The breakthroughs in these batteries do help though and units are lasting longer than a few years ago. My Cambridge Touch still last damn near the listed hours and I bought that the second they came out, like first week. So it's getting better but you are spot on. Not to mention the SQ difference is substantial unless you are rocking a qudelix or something similar. Even the adapters are very very impressive for the SQ they re beginning to put out. I'm sure it'll only get better


----------



## Ceeluh7

Aevum said:


> the AZ10 is low latency gaming oriented, it dosnt have APTX or APTX Adaptive
> 
> i would stick to the AZ09 pro


You and I both, I just canceled my az10 on account of a few people Co firming that the az09 pro are better, more open sounding.


----------



## Aevum (Jan 16, 2022)

the thing is that theres also the CCA BTX which seems to be very similar to the AZ09 pro, both having the QCC3040 chip,

But the CCA appears to be aptx only while the AZ 09 pro is APTX adaptive.

BTW. how is the KZ cable connector called and what brands support it apart from KZ and CCA ?


----------



## Ceeluh7

Aevum said:


> the thing is that theres also the CCA BTX which seems to be very similar to the AZ09 pro, both having the QCC3040 chip,
> 
> But the CCA appears to be aptx only while the AZ 09 pro is APTX adaptive.


Ya know the cca, is probably a remake of the AZ09 non pro... Could be wrong. KZ and CCA usually are damn near identicle in specs.


----------



## jant71

Ceeluh7 said:


> Ya know the cca, is probably a remake of the AZ09 non pro... Could be wrong. KZ and CCA usually are damn near identicle in specs.


Then the CCA would have clear wire and connectors and not black rubber style of the Pro. Not a remake of either cause it is smaller which is nice being the smallest one but it has smaller batteries to help make it 20% smaller so battery is 5 hours and not 8.


----------



## Ceeluh7

jant71 said:


> Then the CCA would have clear wire and connectors and not black rubber style of the Pro. Not a remake of either cause it is smaller which is nice being the smallest one but it has smaller batteries to help make it 20% smaller so battery is 5 hours and not 8.


Gotcha... Who knows, maybe they are comparable.


----------



## jant71

Ceeluh7 said:


> Gotcha... Who knows, maybe they are comparable.


 
Should be the 09 Pro in most other aspects. If the smaller housing affects connection or any other things I'm sure people will report it. 






Looks like it may be shorter overall as well.


----------



## Ceeluh7

jant71 said:


> Should be the 09 Pro in most other aspects. If the smaller housing affects connection or any other things I'm sure people will report it.
> 
> Looks like it may be shorter overall as well.


Yes there is clearly differences... I like that the 2 pin is not type c KZ style. Hey thanks for sharing man


----------



## Ceeluh7

jant71 said:


> Should be the 09 Pro in most other aspects. If the smaller housing affects connection or any other things I'm sure people will report it.
> 
> Looks like it may be shorter overall as well.


It looks as though it has 'hifi music mode' which I assume is the same as az09 pro high gain when you click the left button and times... These look nice


----------



## guitarizt (Jan 17, 2022)

Ceeluh7 said:


> Yep... My thoughts exactly. If I'm paying almost 250.....it better be damn good.


Are the az40s and az70s prob not good? How is ambient on the az60s compared to galaxy bud pros?

I'm pretty happy with the galaxy bud pros. Price used to be insane for 130 new but is 160 on amazon now. The used ones are still around low 80s, and mine always came new or like new. I'm so skeptical of tws being good for that price with bt when I could go the standalone iem route.

I found an eq for linux last night and the timeless are even a half grade better now which is insane. This feels pretty close to end game for me. I'm even leaning toward skipping the monarch mk2 and instead going the studio monitor route. Speakers are just the best!

Oh, and no one interested in jumping on the shuoer s12 train yet? Just saw hbb's yt review of them. They look great for 150, and the fit from a reviewer's pics on head-fi looks better than the timeless.


----------



## BooleanBones

guitarizt said:


> Are the az40s and az70s prob not good? How is ambient on the az60s compared to galaxy bud pros?
> 
> I'm pretty happy with the galaxy bud pros. Price used to be insane for 130 new but is 160 on amazon now. The used ones are still around low 80s, and mine always came new or like new. I'm so skeptical of tws being good for that price with bt when I could go the standalone iem route.
> 
> ...


Not sure I have seen anyone post about the 40s. They were released with the 60s fairly recently. The 70s have quite a bit of feedback on them here, with some still owning them. Maybe they will chime in on how they like them. They are the largest among the three models.


----------



## Ceeluh7

guitarizt said:


> Are the az40s and az70s prob not good? How is ambient on the az60s compared to galaxy bud pros?
> 
> I'm pretty happy with the galaxy bud pros. Price used to be insane for 130 new but is 160 on amazon now. The used ones are still around low 80s, and mine always came new or like new. I'm so skeptical of tws being good for that price with bt when I could go the standalone iem route.
> 
> I found an eq for linux last night and the timeless are even a half grade better now which is insane. This feels pretty close to end game for me. I'm even leaning toward skipping the monarch mk2 and instead going the studio monitor route. Speakers are just the best!


I actually think the ambient is on par with the GBP. I use my GBP often as it is just so very easily paired with my Galaxy phone.

If you are happy with timeless than maybe hold off a bit. The Monarch Mk2 is quite good based solely on reviews as I have not tried them. I think it would be a bit different from the Timeless in tonality. So many people are very happy with what 7hz has accomplished. They were an unknown company who just threw the industry on their heads... Kinda like the Blon 03 back in the day.


----------



## dweaver (Jan 17, 2022)

guitarizt said:


> Are the az40s and az70s prob not good? How is ambient on the az60s compared to galaxy bud pros?
> 
> I'm pretty happy with the galaxy bud pros. Price used to be insane for 130 new but is 160 on amazon now. The used ones are still around low 80s, and mine always came new or like new. I'm so skeptical of tws being good for that price with bt when I could go the standalone iem route.
> 
> ...


I can only speak to the AZ60. I do think these are good, offering a very compelling TWS solution even at full retail. They have ANC that is almost as good as Sony and are cheaper in price reflecting that Sony has a slight edge in this category. They have excellent ambient functions that can be set to hear voices better (the setting is to much for just walking down the street but perfect in a store setting when trying to talk to a cashier). I also like them with both settings disabled.

The only features these are truly missing are auto pause when you take them out of the ear and wireless charging. I would prefer it if they had those features but also feel at the reduced MSRP compared to Sony they can semi justify the lack of features. But this does mean they lag behind the Galaxy Buds Pro which have both of these features.

Sound signature wise these sit right between Sony and Samsung. They are not as bright sounding as GBuds Pro or as dark as the Sony. I personally have grown to like them enough that I don't use the Gbuds Pro as often as I used to because I prefer their bass and midrange balance.

In terms of comfort I will give the nod to the Gbuds Pro by just a bit. But that comfort comes at the cost of isolation as the Gbuds Pro are only maybe 70% of the isolation of the AZ60.

Both models handle the wind better than any Sony I have owned but both still have some wind issues which is partially why I like the ability to disable ANC/Ambient at times because I live somewhere with a fair amount of wind.

Having said all of this. I personally struggle paying full retail on most TWS gear because by design they all have extremely short life spans. So I do generally wait until I can buy my gear on sale and try to limit my price to around $200CAD max if I can help it. This is why I am never in the discussions around some of the really expensive brands and have not tried the WF-1000XM4 yet.

It also makes a great IEM with an adapter a good option. If the adapter dies you just have to buy that component and still have your $400 IEM to attach. Just be damn careful with the IEM, if that darn MMCX connector fails its just as dead as any TWS that has a battery failure...


----------



## jant71 (Jan 17, 2022)

So, I checked and saw the "Westhiker 706" is unavailable at the moment. Still link to it... https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0995G6B5B/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
Though at what price it will return at I don't know. After putting it through it's paces it was quite the deal at $3.60.

Tried the ANC on TV and when vacuuming and again not the best but makes a nice difference that I want to use it. Better with tips that seal better of course. Still connecting quick and issue free when taking out of the case. Touch is done very well and you won't have accidental presses.

I tested it out the way I use the CKS50TW with the same players and such so that I am familiar. They have a very similar sound profile and I use the same EQ for both. The big 13mm titanium drivers have some sub punch and the 706 is a fun bassy sound. Way above the price and not much worse than the AT is for sound. If they had aptX they could come real close actually when using the AT tips on them. Too solid to gift them anymore I have a Ruizu player that could use a pair of TWS. They drop the ball with no transparency mode and can't compare in battery life to the AT. They also have a weaker connection so not the range or close to body stability such as in pockets. Fit is great, they are super light, and the battery percentage and L/R proper contact indicators are nice to have. Turn out to be worth $3.60 every day of the week and twice on Sunday. For sure the best value TWS I have bought. You CAN get a pretty sweet TWS for under $4 in 2022 if you shop around and take a risk. Much better than things like the Bluedio I tried 1.5 years back for $14.


----------



## gwompki

Howdy everyone! Haven't posted in a few months.  Went through quite a few different TWS units (Bose QC buds, Sony XM3 and XM4, Devialet Gemini) before settling on the Cambridge Audio Melomania Touch.  I really like the way the MT sound (not as much as the Gemini, but the price, battery life etc made up for it).  I still really like the MT but have a few issues with it that has me on the hunt for something as a companion.   This thread has so much posted to it that I'm sure there are a ton of new options since I last looked here back in the summer.  

My requirements for this new set would be:
-Small case! I really would love a set that I can keep in my back pocket as I walk around.  I tried the Melomania 1+ and they sound great, fit great, and fit in my pocket well, but man do they look goofy sticking out of my ears.  I've also tried pixel buds A (didn't like the sound) and the APP (didn't care for the sound).  Both have small cases though.
-No finicky touch controls - the Melomania Touch controls drive me up the wall with how sensitive they are.  Any time I shift them in my ears I inadvertently pause the music or turn up the volume.
-Charging - Need to have a solid charging experience.  My MT seem to constantly come unseated from the charging pins.  This causes my phone to connect to them even when they are put away in my bag.
-Need to have an option that is not black in color.  People don't seem to recognize that I have something in my ears when wearing the black MT.  When I'm walking down the street, people try to speak to me and when I don't respond they get offended.  Apparently most folks can't tell they are even in there from a distance.  I feel like Air Pods are very visible to people.

Definitely welcome any recommendations.

Thanks!!


----------



## C_Lindbergh (Jan 17, 2022)

gwompki said:


> Howdy everyone! Haven't posted in a few months.  Went through quite a few different TWS units (Bose QC buds, Sony XM3 and XM4, Devialet Gemini) before settling on the Cambridge Audio Melomania Touch.  I really like the way the MT sound (not as much as the Gemini, but the price, battery life etc made up for it).  I still really like the MT but have a few issues with it that has me on the hunt for something as a companion.   This thread has so much posted to it that I'm sure there are a ton of new options since I last looked here back in the summer.
> 
> My requirements for this new set would be:
> -Small case! I really would love a set that I can keep in my back pocket as I walk around.  I tried the Melomania 1+ and they sound great, fit great, and fit in my pocket well, but man do they look goofy sticking out of my ears.  I've also tried pixel buds A (didn't like the sound) and the APP (didn't care for the sound).  Both have small cases though.
> ...



Take a look at the Technics EAH-AZ60, they're better in every way compared to the MT (I also had them until recently). SQ can ofc be debatable, but in any other area they blow away the CA MT.

There's also an non black option (white).

They've got Touch Controls tho, but it works miles better compared to the CA MT


----------



## C_Lindbergh (Jan 17, 2022)

Did anyone in the thread try the JVC HA-FW1000T?

Im just curious about any impressions since I can't buy it myself without paying around 100 EUR extra in shipping/import fees, but they're available in  Amazon US/UK.

Kinda sucks that there's no app for a 300$ device tho!


----------



## BooleanBones

gwompki said:


> Howdy everyone! Haven't posted in a few months.  Went through quite a few different TWS units (Bose QC buds, Sony XM3 and XM4, Devialet Gemini) before settling on the Cambridge Audio Melomania Touch.  I really like the way the MT sound (not as much as the Gemini, but the price, battery life etc made up for it).  I still really like the MT but have a few issues with it that has me on the hunt for something as a companion.   This thread has so much posted to it that I'm sure there are a ton of new options since I last looked here back in the summer.
> 
> My requirements for this new set would be:
> -Small case! I really would love a set that I can keep in my back pocket as I walk around.  I tried the Melomania 1+ and they sound great, fit great, and fit in my pocket well, but man do they look goofy sticking out of my ears.  I've also tried pixel buds A (didn't like the sound) and the APP (didn't care for the sound).  Both have small cases though.
> ...


How will they be used? Just music or occasional calls. Ambient or ANC important at all? Right now, my go to for music only is the Noble Fokus (no frills included - just app with an EQ). My all arounders for everything has been the AZ60s lately.


----------



## gwompki

C_Lindbergh said:


> Take a look at the Technics EAH-AZ60, they're better in every way compared to the MT (I also had them until recently). SQ can ofc be debatable, but in any other are they blow away the CA MT.
> 
> There's also an non black option (white).
> 
> They've got Touch Controls tho, but it works miles better compared to the CA MT


Those look really nice but the case seems to be as large as the MT case.  Really hoping to find something really small case wise.

Is there a predecessor to the AZ60? It looks like they are only sold on the secondary market now.


----------



## jant71

gwompki said:


> Those look really nice but the case seems to be as large as the MT case.  Really hoping to find something really small case wise.
> 
> Is there a predecessor to the AZ60? It looks like they are only sold on the secondary market now.


There is a predecessor but it is the one on the right in this pic...


----------



## BooleanBones (Jan 17, 2022)

gwompki said:


> Those look really nice but the case seems to be as large as the MT case.  Really hoping to find something really small case wise.
> 
> Is there a predecessor to the AZ60? It looks like they are only sold on the secondary market now.


They are pretty new, so probably just out of stock on Amazon. Some extra pics for comparison. APP/AZ60/XM4/Fokus


----------



## C_Lindbergh (Jan 17, 2022)

gwompki said:


> Those look really nice but the case seems to be as large as the MT case.  Really hoping to find something really small case wise.
> 
> Is there a predecessor to the AZ60? It looks like they are only sold on the secondary market now.



The case is actually quite small, I prefer it over the CA MT case.

Hmm they're in stock in at the dealers were I live, check out the technicas web page for your country and check your dealers.


----------



## gwompki

BooleanBones said:


> How will they be used? Just music or occasional calls. Ambient or ANC important at all? Right now, my go to for music only is the Noble Fokus (no frills included - just app with an EQ). My all arounders for everything has been the AZ60s lately.


ANC not important and calls not important either.  Just used for music and podcasts walking around, gym or at my desk.  Size of case is really important.  Want it to easily fit in my back pocket without a huge bulge.


----------



## jant71

gwompki said:


> ANC not important and calls not important either.  Just used for music and podcasts walking around, gym or at my desk.  Size of case is really important.  Want it to easily fit in my back pocket without a huge bulge.


AZ40 a little smaller...


----------



## BooleanBones

gwompki said:


> ANC not important and calls not important either.  Just used for music and podcasts walking around, gym or at my desk.  Size of case is really important.  Want it to easily fit in my back pocket without a huge bulge.


For the gym, I would say the Fokus would not be a good fit. Even Noble states the same. Here is the landing page for the Technics on Amazon, looks like the AZ60s are out of stock:
https://www.amazon.com/stores/page/...118COATR2GE2BH&ref_=sbx_be_s_sparkle_lsi4d_ls


----------



## gwompki

C_Lindbergh said:


> The case is actually quite small, I prefer it over the CA MT case.
> 
> Hmm they're in stock in at the dealers were I live, check out the technicas web page for your country and check your dealers.


Very bizarre.  I get a 404 page not found from Technics direct.  Amazon shows them as unavailable. The AZ40 seems to be available everywhere but the 60 only on eBay for some reason.  Very bizarre!


----------



## BooleanBones

gwompki said:


> Very bizarre.  I get a 404 page not found from Technics direct.  Amazon shows them as unavailable. The AZ40 seems to be available everywhere but the 60 only on eBay for some reason.  Very bizarre!


That website has had better days, don’t think it is related to the AZs. Might be related to other new products coming in.


----------



## Ceeluh7

C_Lindbergh said:


> Did anyone in the thread try the JVC HA-FW1000T?
> 
> Im just curious about any impressions since I can't buy it myself without paying around 100 EUR extra in shipping/import fees, but they're available in  Amazon US/UK.
> 
> Kinda sucks that there's no app for a 300$ device tho!


Very very close to getting them. The problem that I had with them was there is literally not even one review of this set. The only thing I did find was some Asian YouTube video reviews where all I could do is translate the comment section. Of the comments I saw that these have very low volume... Wth. I wanted to get these but I figured they'd be another set I was taking back


----------



## BooleanBones

Ceeluh7 said:


> Very very close to getting them. The problem that I had with them was there is literally not even one review of this set. The only thing I did find was some Asian YouTube video reviews where all I could do is translate the comment section. Of the comments I saw that these have very low volume... Wth. I wanted to get these but I figured they'd be another set I was taking back


Right there with ya on this.


----------



## C_Lindbergh

Appears the AZ60 is on backorder in the US market, guess they've been selling more than expected. 
https://www.adorama.com/pceahaz60ws...TloyoAUkG3czSOHW8nQk0&utm_source=rflaid913093


----------



## dweaver

gwompki said:


> ANC not important and calls not important either.  Just used for music and podcasts walking around, gym or at my desk.  Size of case is really important.  Want it to easily fit in my back pocket without a huge bulge.


If ANC is not important then the AZ40 is smaller in ear and the case is slightly smaller as well. I carry my AZ60 case in my front pocket a lot with no bulge, it would bulge a bit in my back pocket but not very much, the AZ40 should be even a bit smaller. The 60 fit my ears really well so the slightly smaller 40 should be even a bit more comfy.

Other than Technics you could look at Galaxy Buds Pro or 2 as they have a pretty tiny case.


----------



## bladefd

gwompki said:


> Howdy everyone! Haven't posted in a few months.  Went through quite a few different TWS units (Bose QC buds, Sony XM3 and XM4, Devialet Gemini) before settling on the Cambridge Audio Melomania Touch.  I really like the way the MT sound (not as much as the Gemini, but the price, battery life etc made up for it).  I still really like the MT but have a few issues with it that has me on the hunt for something as a companion.   This thread has so much posted to it that I'm sure there are a ton of new options since I last looked here back in the summer.
> 
> My requirements for this new set would be:
> -Small case! I really would love a set that I can keep in my back pocket as I walk around.  I tried the Melomania 1+ and they sound great, fit great, and fit in my pocket well, but man do they look goofy sticking out of my ears.  I've also tried pixel buds A (didn't like the sound) and the APP (didn't care for the sound).  Both have small cases though.
> ...


Wow, I have been in the same boat as you for the past couple months. Eerie how similar the situations are, including charging & randomly connecting to phone. That's a common issue with MT, unfortunately. I can't even consistently charge with the case closed.

However, there are not many new options currently from within past 6 months. I looked into the AZ60, but not jumped the gun yet. I'm not yet sure if LDAC is a worthy upgrade over aptx. I have been trying to push off as long as possible for hopefully something new being announced like Sennheiser MTW3 to be actually worth the upgrade. I am not too hopeful though. CES was pretty much a wash. I might eventually end up going for AZ60 in next month or 2.


----------



## stormwrx (Jan 17, 2022)

For those of you rocking the WF-1000XM4s with the latest firmware update, I am enjoying these EQ settings posted by another member in the dedicated WF-1000XM4 thread:

+1db at 400 and +2db at 1K (I also added +1 to the Clear Bass setting, but I am a basshead).

Overally, this seems punchy with better treble extension. The 1.3.3 firmware opened things up to my ears, but some members don't like the reduction in bass. The above settings bring it back mostly.

When it comes to the total package of sound quality and features, the WF-1000XM4s are hard to beat IMO (though the Galaxy Buds Pro are pretty darn good, but for the wonky fit and medicore ANC).

PS, if someone is looking for a killer TWS + IEM combo, I am selling my Shure AONIC 215 TWS + SE846s. I am focusing on the wired stuff right now.


----------



## guitarizt

Ceeluh7 said:


> I actually think the ambient is on par with the GBP. I use my GBP often as it is just so very easily paired with my Galaxy phone.
> 
> If you are happy with timeless than maybe hold off a bit. The Monarch Mk2 is quite good based solely on reviews as I have not tried them. I think it would be a bit different from the Timeless in tonality. So many people are very happy with what 7hz has accomplished. They were an unknown company who just threw the industry on their heads... Kinda like the Blon 03 back in the day.


A lot of my stuff came in today. Hated the tripowin zonie 16 spc 2.5mm with the timeless. Really surprised me how diff it made it. Original 3.5mm cable is great. I wish I could buy the 2.5mm timeless cable if anyone knows a place. I'm happy with the sound as is, but I'm curious.

The lea. What. This to me is pretty close to the timeless tier when eq'ed. The timeless is still more technical, but the tonality of this is just diff. It's actually more apples and orange territory than it being many tiers below. Man for $26 I just can't believe it, LMAO! I haven't even tried the mele yet. I'm so in shock by the lea. Thanks for recommending it, I was gonna skip it!


----------



## guitarizt

Mele, interesting tuning. I like the lea better. I'd have to mess with the eq for the mele. 

The KZ CRN, What. Just sounds nasally to me. I don't think I like crin's tuning, so I guess I won't be going through his line of iems.

So far, for each one I'd go as far as to put into diff tiers. Lea yes, mele maybe, crn no.

Lea > Mele > KZ CRN


----------



## erockg

I just got the KZ-AZ09 Pro TWS adapters.  Wow.  They are the small.  They're also quite powerful and more powerful than the BT30 by far.  Messed up my cut on one adapter but for the price, it's okay.  They work, I just ripped a little too much.  My OCD is kicking in.  Here's a few pics of the size difference compared to the UTWS3.  Paired the KZs to the Mangird Tea IEMs just now and boom!  Really good stuff.  The Mangirds are much better than the Thieaudio Legacy 5s I returned.  By a fair margin IMO.


----------



## Canabuc

gwompki said:


> Howdy everyone! Haven't posted in a few months.  Went through quite a few different TWS units (Bose QC buds, Sony XM3 and XM4, Devialet Gemini) before settling on the Cambridge Audio Melomania Touch.  I really like the way the MT sound (not as much as the Gemini, but the price, battery life etc made up for it).  I still really like the MT but have a few issues with it that has me on the hunt for something as a companion.   This thread has so much posted to it that I'm sure there are a ton of new options since I last looked here back in the summer.
> 
> My requirements for this new set would be:
> -Small case! I really would love a set that I can keep in my back pocket as I walk around.  I tried the Melomania 1+ and they sound great, fit great, and fit in my pocket well, but man do they look goofy sticking out of my ears.  I've also tried pixel buds A (didn't like the sound) and the APP (didn't care for the sound).  Both have small cases though.
> ...



AZ60


----------



## HaliHarry

C_Lindbergh said:


> Did anyone in the thread try the JVC HA-FW1000T?
> 
> Im just curious about any impressions since I can't buy it myself without paying around 100 EUR extra in shipping/import fees, but they're available in  Amazon US/UK.
> 
> Kinda sucks that there's no app for a 300$ device tho!


It's coming. I'll compare with my AZ60


----------



## Ceeluh7

guitarizt said:


> A lot of my stuff came in today. Hated the tripowin zonie 16 spc 2.5mm with the timeless. Really surprised me how diff it made it. Original 3.5mm cable is great. I wish I could buy the 2.5mm timeless cable if anyone knows a place. I'm happy with the sound as is, but I'm curious.
> 
> The lea. What. This to me is pretty close to the timeless tier when eq'ed. The timeless is still more technical, but the tonality of this is just diff. It's actually more apples and orange territory than it being many tiers below. Man for $26 I just can't believe it, LMAO! I haven't even tried the mele yet. I'm so in shock by the lea. Thanks for recommending it, I was gonna skip it!


Nice man, ya the Timeless cable isn't bad at all, single crystal copper, silver plated with silver foil or something close to that. The Zonie may not be right. At least you can see that cables definitely make a difference in tonality and pairing has to be good. People like to always tell me that cables make no change... Lol... Okay. Anyways, man I'm glad you like the Lea, amazing what is out there in the budget world these days


----------



## Ceeluh7

erockg said:


> I just got the KZ-AZ09 Pro TWS adapters.  Wow.  They are the small.  They're also quite powerful and more powerful than the BT30 by far.  Messed up my cut on one adapter but for the price, it's okay.  They work, I just ripped a little too much.  My OCD is kicking in.  Here's a few pics of the size difference compared to the UTWS3.  Paired the KZs to the Mangird Tea IEMs just now and boom!  Really good stuff.  The Mangirds are much better than the Thieaudio Legacy 5s I returned.  By a fair margin IMO.


Sweet man.... I figured you'd like the Teas... Legends in the price point. Ya I'm enjoying the az09 pro alot... I can't believe kz did such a good job on these man. Once I kick in high gain... Everything just comes alive. I still have to be reasonable what I put in them as far as sensitivity goes but so far I too like them


----------



## samandhi

Ceeluh7 said:


> Sweet man.... I figured you'd like the Teas... Legends in the price point. Ya I'm enjoying the az09 pro alot... I can't believe kz did such a good job on these man. Once I kick in high gain... Everything just comes alive. I still have to be reasonable what I put in them as far as sensitivity goes but so far I too like them


I am going to have to wait (again) on getting the UTWSx. I had to have the Amp12 card for my DX300, and a bunch of new cables. Plus, I just got the Timeless not long ago. Hobby budget = blown for now!


----------



## Ceeluh7

samandhi said:


> I am going to have to wait (again) on getting the UTWSx. I had to have the Amp12 card for my DX300, and a bunch of new cables. Plus, I just got the Timeless not long ago. Hobby budget = blown for now!


Haha... You and I both... I'm going to have to wait to purchase anything for a bit. This hobby is ridiculous man, always something you have your eyes on. I think whatever version of the utwsx you get whenever that is... You'll be happy with it.


----------



## Ceeluh7

HaliHarry said:


> It's coming. I'll compare with my AZ60


Very much looking forward to your thoughts on these. Great to see someone has actually purchased these.


----------



## BooleanBones

HaliHarry said:


> It's coming. I'll compare with my AZ60


That is the Victor model that you have coming right? I think one of the questions floating around was whether the Victor model had any different tuning than the US JVC model.


----------



## Ceeluh7

BooleanBones said:


> That is the Victor model that you have coming right? I think one of the questions floating around was whether the Victor model had any different tuning than the US JVC model.


Ya that was a question that I had as well. Appearantly nobody wants to actually purchase this set. I'm thinking it's priced a bit too high. Maybe jvc wanted to hold onto the prestige of the "wood" series and keep the price up... Who knows, could be wrong. I am interested


----------



## jant71

Ceeluh7 said:


> Ya that was a question that I had as well. Appearantly nobody wants to actually purchase this set. I'm thinking it's priced a bit too high. Maybe jvc wanted to hold onto the prestige of the "wood" series and keep the price up... Who knows, could be wrong. I am interested


That is a good thing. They way it works. Hold off and the price drops. It is down $50 already. Should be $250 soon. Why pay $50, $75, or $100 more than you have to. JVC is not Grado so they don't hold price. BTW how much is the Grado TWS selling when still at $259. They really need to upgrade that one to at least go to 5.2 and have adaptive and ambient.


----------



## dmphile

So last night, I noticed that while my UTWS5's were charging in the case, they were randomly trying to connect to my smartphone. Looks like I am not immune to some of the bugs/issues with the UTWS5 but hopefully it can be corrected via firmware soon.


----------



## Tommy C

dmphile said:


> So last night, I noticed that while my UTWS5's were charging in the case, they were randomly trying to connect to my smartphone. Looks like I am not immune to some of the bugs/issues with the UTWS5 but hopefully it can be corrected via firmware soon.


Any word on a FW update? Since October they were saying EQ and Ambient mode will be pushed “soon”. It’s almost February so I’m kind of hesitant to purchase although based on feedback here the controls might be too limited for me anyways but curiousity kicks in every now and then.


----------



## dmphile

Tommy C said:


> Any word on a FW update? Since October they were saying EQ and Ambient mode will be pushed “soon”. It’s almost February so I’m kind of hesitant to purchase although based on feedback here the controls might be too limited for me anyways but curiousity kicks in every now and then.


Nothing yet officially from the FiiO team but I am closely monitoring a few sources to see if and how they're going to address some of these issues.


----------



## Ceeluh7

jant71 said:


> That is a good thing. They way it works. Hold off and the price drops. It is down $50 already. Should be $250 soon. Why pay $50, $75, or $100 more than you have to. JVC is not Grado so they don't hold price. BTW how much is the Grado TWS selling when still at $259. They really need to upgrade that one to at least go to 5.2 and have adaptive and ambient.


Yes the Grado is still $259.00. You are correct they do need to upgrade. I enjoy the sound on them and so purchased them again just so I could have a tws with very good SQ as I have sold off any of my top tier tws. I honestly do not think that the 259 is justified, however the kid in me justified paying tht price... Lol.


----------



## Ceeluh7

dmphile said:


> So last night, I noticed that while my UTWS5's were charging in the case, they were randomly trying to connect to my smartphone. Looks like I am not immune to some of the bugs/issues with the UTWS5 but hopefully it can be corrected via firmware soon.


Not another one... Damn. I guess this is a real issue with these. Thankfully I have not had this problem. I am interested to see if they actually get back to you so that people can actually enjoy this amazing adapter. I use them all the time and I am impressed with them. I would maybe try resetting them and cleaning the terminals, I don't know if it'll help but... Fingers crossed, or maybe you've already tried that. At any rate maybe people writing fiio about this will help. I will send them a message today


----------



## erockg

dmphile said:


> So last night, I noticed that while my UTWS5's were charging in the case, they were randomly trying to connect to my smartphone. Looks like I am not immune to some of the bugs/issues with the UTWS5 but hopefully it can be corrected via firmware soon.


Yup, mine do this all the time.  Did it just now.  Drives me nuts.  If I hit play on the other device I'm currently using it keeps playing, but not very cool.


----------



## erockg

dmphile said:


> Nothing yet officially from the FiiO team but I am closely monitoring a few sources to see if and how they're going to address some of these issues.


Same here.  Nothing since they said "domestic testing" whatever that really means.  I don't have any issues with the 3 version outside of BT strength when you're too far from the source.


----------



## erockg (Jan 18, 2022)

Ceeluh7 said:


> Sweet man.... I figured you'd like the Teas... Legends in the price point. Ya I'm enjoying the az09 pro alot... I can't believe kz did such a good job on these man. Once I kick in high gain... Everything just comes alive. I still have to be reasonable what I put in them as far as sensitivity goes but so far I too like them


Seriously impressed so far with the AZ09.  Wish I had known about this before the BT30 purchase.  Not hat the BT30s aren't okay, they're just not needed now.  Can't fit IEMs in the case of the BT30 like the KZs.  Also, the KZs do not work with the Moondrop Variations and possibly other Moondrop IEMs due to the recessed input of the buds.  The housing tip of the KZs are too big, unless there is another workaround.


----------



## erockg

erockg said:


> Seriously impressed so far with the AZ09.  Wish I had known about this before the BT30 purchase.  Not hat the BT30s aren't okay, they're just not needed now.  Can't fit IEMs in the case of the BT30 like the KZs.


Further to this, the BT30 mics stink from what I'm hearing.  KZ mics better.  Fiio mics much better.


----------



## jant71

erockg said:


> Further to this, the BT30 mics stink from what I'm hearing.  KZ mics better.  Fiio mics much better.


They had you at changing connectors though. The pretty face you then learned was a shallow girl with less substance.


----------



## erockg

jant71 said:


> They had you at changing connectors though. The pretty face you then learned was a shallow girl with less substance.


I was actually aiming for that BT 5.2, but man, when you have the KZ in your hands, they just do everything better for a fraction of the price.  Who knows if the build is worse, but so far the case is smaller, lighter, IEMs fit perfect, no app, but the only company that perfected the app is Shure, so that's no biggie.  Considering returning the UTWS3 and getting a second AZ09 Pro, then hanging onto the UTWS5 with the hopes of a firmware update to fix things.  Ah, the stupid little things in life...


----------



## Ceeluh7

erockg said:


> Seriously impressed so far with the AZ09.  Wish I had known about this before the BT30 purchase.  Not hat the BT30s aren't okay, they're just not needed now.  Can't fit IEMs in the case of the BT30 like the KZs.  Also, the KZs do not work with the Moondrop Variations and possibly other Moondrop IEMs due to the recessed input of the buds.  The housing tip of the KZs are too big, unless there is another workaround.


Ya I tried with the Arias and they stay on but not well... Which in turn means... They don't work with the AZ09 Pro. I currently have the KZ ZAS on them and man these are perfect for these adapters to me. Good clean and punchy bass with the high gain enabled. The Mids sound good, not recessed and the highs sparkle well enough.


----------



## Gevi

Personaly I haven't got a wireless one yet that works with a completely clear audio reproduction. The latest one I used was KZ SA08


----------



## Gevi

However, I think year by year we are getting there. Probably I need to try out a pair with a higher price tag


----------



## sgtbilko

erockg said:


> Seriously impressed so far with the AZ09.  Wish I had known about this before the BT30 purchase.  Not hat the BT30s aren't okay, they're just not needed now.  Can't fit IEMs in the case of the BT30 like the KZs.  Also, the KZs do not work with the Moondrop Variations and possibly other Moondrop IEMs due to the recessed input of the buds.  The housing tip of the KZs are too big, unless there is another workaround.


Got my AZ09's today. Have to say I'm impressed equally as well. Only gripe (if I have to have one) is that the buttons require quite a bit of pressure to work.

That said, these are very impressive, particularly as they come in at half the price of my UTWs3's (which I love as well).


----------



## sgtbilko

Out of curiosity, is there a list of iems that will fit the AZ09 Pro's? 

I know about the KZ site's list, but it only really covers there own model.  I'm running mine with the CRA (which both KZ and CCA didn't list as compatible.


----------



## Ceeluh7

sgtbilko said:


> Out of curiosity, is there a list of iems that will fit the AZ09 Pro's?
> 
> I know about the KZ site's list, but it only really covers there own model.  I'm running mine with the CRA (which both KZ and CCA didn't list as compatible.


You can greatly increase that list of iems which fit by modding these like a few of us here. I used an exacto knife and sliced away the rubber covering (hood) over the two pins which opens these up to fit most 2 pin iems. However any iem which has recessed two pin sockets (Moondrop Aria) it likely will still have a hard time properly connecting


----------



## erockg

For those keeping score, the Shure TW2s with the micro MMCX-2 Pin adapter works great!  Changed the setting on the TW2 to Aonic 3 and they power the Moondrop Variations and Mangird Teas very well.  Fits better with the micro adapter over the standard.  Might be kicking back my UTWS5s until they release some sort of fw update to fix the bugs.  Thanks to KZ and their AZ09 Pros for making this happen.  Oh, and also props to @voicemaster who initially mentioned this hack to me a while back.


----------



## LordToneeus

Just received my UTWS5s and hooked up my new Tripowin Lea’s. Had to crank the volume to - I kid you not - 100% to get them to anywhere near appreciable. I have never had to crank my phone to 100% volume for anything.  Also, the Fiio app does not work with them for me… for now.


----------



## erockg

LordToneeus said:


> Just received my UTWS5s and hooked up my new Tripowin Lea’s. Had to crank the volume to - I kid you not - 100% to get them to anywhere near appreciable. I have never had to crank my phone to 100% volume for anything.  Also, the Fiio app does not work with them for me… for now.


That's nuts.  Actually, I feel like the output of the 3s are working better for me here.  Odd.  The 5s didn't do as well with my Variations or Mangird.  Try those AZ09 Pros.  Fo the price, whew.  Really surprising.  Been using them all day.  They were $46 on Amazon and then I added a 3 year warranty for $6.  They're tiny and my IEMs fit great in the case with the adapters connected.


----------



## guitarizt

Ceeluh7 said:


> Ya I tried with the Arias and they stay on but not well... Which in turn means... They don't work with the AZ09 Pro. I currently have the KZ ZAS on them and man these are perfect for these adapters to me. Good clean and punchy bass with the high gain enabled. The Mids sound good, not recessed and the highs sparkle well enough.


Darn kz zas are 70, I'm getting greedy and hoping for more $30- range iems, lol. How are the zas's? I'll prob get the az09 since they're so cheap, but that sucks they don't work with aria. Maybe I'll use the utws3's with aria and az09 with leas.


LordToneeus said:


> Just received my UTWS5s and hooked up my new Tripowin Lea’s. Had to crank the volume to - I kid you not - 100% to get them to anywhere near appreciable. I have never had to crank my phone to 100% volume for anything.  Also, the Fiio app does not work with them for me… for now.


The leas sound great with my utws3's. I'll use them today traveling to see how they do. I usually have to crank everything with my timeless, but the leas are much more forgiving. I'll just reiterate that the leas are a f'ing steal at 26. I think I'm actually preferring them to my timeless for the tonality, and the insane technicality of the timeless is too much for me to want to use all the time.


----------



## guitarizt (Jan 18, 2022)

For the KZ09, are the pros worth it for 2x the price? I saw a thread on it on reddit but it looks inconclusive. Replies from people that prob dont have either one.

Also is there really a diff between the B and C pin versions for the housing of the cable where I could only use say the C version for the ZAS or certain 2 pin iem's? Yet the pro only seems to have one version?


----------



## Ceeluh7

guitarizt said:


> Darn kz zas are 70, I'm getting greedy and hoping for more $30- range iems, lol. How are the zas's? I'll prob get the az09 since they're so cheap, but that sucks they don't work with aria. Maybe I'll use the utws3's with aria and az09 with leas.
> 
> The leas sound great with my utws3's. I'll use them today traveling to see how they do. I usually have to crank everything with my timeless, but the leas are much more forgiving. I'll just reiterate that the leas are a f'ing steal at 26. I think I'm actually preferring them to my timeless for the tonality, and the insane technicality of the timeless is too much for me to want to use all the time.


The ZAS are fantastic man


----------



## Ceeluh7

LordToneeus said:


> Just received my UTWS5s and hooked up my new Tripowin Lea’s. Had to crank the volume to - I kid you not - 100% to get them to anywhere near appreciable. I have never had to crank my phone to 100% volume for anything.  Also, the Fiio app does not work with them for me… for now.


There is something wrong, you shouldn't pull the Leas past 50/100. Is absolute volume disableb and did you turn the sound all the way up on the adapters, sorry if that is a stupid question


----------



## Ceeluh7

guitarizt said:


> Darn kz zas are 70, I'm getting greedy and hoping for more $30- range iems, lol. How are the zas's? I'll prob get the az09 since they're so cheap, but that sucks they don't work with aria. Maybe I'll use the utws3's with aria and az09 with leas.
> 
> The leas sound great with my utws3's. I'll use them today traveling to see how they do. I usually have to crank everything with my timeless, but the leas are much more forgiving. I'll just reiterate that the leas are a f'ing steal at 26. I think I'm actually preferring them to my timeless for the tonality, and the insane technicality of the timeless is too much for me to want to use all the time.


However if you are looking at the $30 range there is quite a few nice sets. I think the Leas are looking to be the under $30 king, I have them ordered as well as the Fiio Jh3 for $39...so far great reviews... I'm looking forward to those


----------



## guitarizt (Jan 18, 2022)

Ceeluh7 said:


> The ZAS are fantastic man


Hahahaa ur killing me, I'll order the ZAS and prob C pin az09 later. Is everyone getting just the normal az09 and not the pro? Also, out of curiosity, do most 2 pin iem's work with the C pin? I asked this a few posts up, but I edited the post to ask it.



Ceeluh7 said:


> However if you are looking at the $30 range there is quite a few nice sets. I think the Leas are looking to be the under $30 king, I have them ordered as well as the Fiio Jh3 for $39...so far great reviews... I'm looking forward to those



I'm interested in how you like the jh3's.

I'm kind of in paralysis by analysis with the fh3 vs the eclipse. I'm worried I don't like crin's tuning because of the kz crn's. It reminds me of the tuning of the buds+ I don't like. At $150 I don't feel as willy nilly about just ordering on a crapshoot.

I think I'm understanding more what I like, this is my eq on linux which I'm loving with everything. I'm not sure what it means I like, if it's just I'm meh about bass, scooped mids, and boosted treble?



Spoiler: EQ


----------



## Ceeluh7

guitarizt said:


> Hahahaa ur killing me, I'll order the ZAS and prob C pin az09 later. Is everyone getting just the normal az09 and not the pro? Also, out of curiosity, do most 2 pin iem's work with the C pin? I asked this a few posts up, but I edited the post to ask it.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


The ZAS are very nice. The AZ09 Pro is what everyone has been talking about. Also, the FH3 are some of my favorite ever


----------



## Ceeluh7

guitarizt said:


> Hahahaa ur killing me, I'll order the ZAS and prob C pin az09 later. Is everyone getting just the normal az09 and not the pro? Also, out of curiosity, do most 2 pin iem's work with the C pin? I asked this a few posts up, but I edited the post to ask it.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Crinacle made the Fhe with boosted bass but says he did so in a way that the bass does not infringe on the Mids or anywhere else on the spectrum. For $129 the FH3 are so good man. I have had them for about a year and I always always go back to them. I have much more expensive iems but I just love the sound sig of the FH3. Anyways you may enjoy the ZAS, many do... I happen to love the bass and just the tonality. Honestly man there are so many iems that are bonkers good at every price point down to $10 bucks. Not kidding.


----------



## dmphile (Jan 18, 2022)

Ceeluh7 said:


> Crinacle made the Fhe with boosted bass but says he did so in a way that the bass does not infringe on the Mids or anywhere else on the spectrum. For $129 the FH3 are so good man. I have had them for about a year and I always always go back to them. I have much more expensive iems but I just love the sound sig of the FH3. Anyways you may enjoy the ZAS, many do... I happen to love the bass and just the tonality. Honestly man there are so many iems that are bonkers good at every price point down to $10 bucks. Not kidding.


Have you tried the FHE with the boosted bass? If so, what are you thoughts in comparison to the original FH3? I'm finding the timeless while exceptional on technicalities is a little fatiguing and slightly bright for my taste on a few songs... looking for something warmer, relaxed, similar degree of bass and more musicality.


----------



## Ceeluh7

dmphile said:


> Have you tried the FHE with the boosted bass? If so, what are you thoughts in comparison to the original FH3? I'm finding the timeless while exceptional on technicalities is a little fatiguing and slightly bright for my taste on a few songs... looking for something warmer, relaxed, similar degree of bass and more musicality.


What price point are you looking at? I have not tried the Fhe as I have not seen it on sale yet here in the States. My first question to you would be, what is your preferred sound signature (if you know). I saw you say warmer and more relaxed. If you are looking in that price point around $150-200 then I would say that the set I have been loving lately to a ridiculous degree is the TRI I3 Pro. It has a Dynamic Driver, a Planar (like the Timeless) and a BA. It is relaxed and warmer and the bass is awesome to me. Another I am currently loving is the Tanchjim Hana 2021...it is Harman tuned but with slightly more energy up top (non fatiguing) with tighter bass and just an awesome tonality... Really great. There is literally so many sets that could fit the bill. If you have a price you are looking at then we can tailor things down a bit.


----------



## dmphile

Ceeluh7 said:


> What price point are you looking at? I have not tried the Fhe as I have not seen it on sale yet here in the States. My first question to you would be, what is your preferred sound signature (if you know). I saw you say warmer and more relaxed. If you are looking in that price point around $150-200 then I would say that the set I have been loving lately to a ridiculous degree is the TRI I3 Pro. It has a Dynamic Driver, a Planar (like the Timeless) and a BA. It is relaxed and warmer and the bass is awesome to me. Another I am currently loving is the Tanchjim Hana 2021...it is Harman tuned but with slightly more energy up top (non fatiguing) with tighter bass and just an awesome tonality... Really great. There is literally so many sets that could fit the bill. If you have a price you are looking at then we can tailor things down a bit.


I'm willing to spend up to $250 USD and the one that I'm eyeing is the Legacy 5. But yes, the sound profile that I would enjoy is warmer, relaxed (non fatiguing) good sub-bass, emphasized mids/vocals with above average or better than good soundstage and imaging.


----------



## erockg

dmphile said:


> I'm willing to spend up to $250 USD and the one that I'm eyeing is the Legacy 5. But yes, the sound profile that I would enjoy is warmer, relaxed (non fatiguing) good sub-bass, emphasized mids/vocals with above average or better than good soundstage and imaging.


I'd pass on the L5 and go with the Mangird Tea.  I had the 5s last week and after watching/reading some reviews about the Mangrid, they just blow away the 5s.  Using them with now with the AZ09 Pro and they ROCK.  It's little more than you want to spend, but I think it's worth it.


----------



## Ceeluh7

dmphile said:


> I'm willing to spend up to $250 USD and the one that I'm eyeing is the Legacy 5. But yes, the sound profile that I would enjoy is warmer, relaxed (non fatiguing) good sub-bass, emphasized mids/vocals with above average or better than good soundstage and imaging.


Fiio FH5, TRI I3 pro, fiio fd5 if you can find a sale, Kato, Hana 2021, Tanchjim Oxygen (big brother to Hana), final audio e5000 (harder to drive), ikko oh10. These are a start, there is a bunch more but I don't want to throw too many at you and of course what @erockg said...Mangird Tea if you can go higher. I'd check some reviews as all of these have plenty of reviews out there


----------



## Ceeluh7

dmphile said:


> I'm willing to spend up to $250 USD and the one that I'm eyeing is the Legacy 5. But yes, the sound profile that I would enjoy is warmer, relaxed (non fatiguing) good sub-bass, emphasized mids/vocals with above average or better than good soundstage and imaging.


The sets I listed are $150- 280ish, there are good sets for less but these just happen to be in that price point


----------



## xuan87

Anyone has their eye on the Philips Fidelio T1?


----------



## alpha80

Current Bluetooth standard is 256kbps.

Apple says next year their AirPods Pro 2 will be doing lossless.

So we’re inching closer, to truly great sound quality.

But wired is still clearly king.

I can’t wait to see a big APPLE logo staring at me right out of people’s ears, on a white stemless AirPodPro2, shaped like many of the current Bluetooth stuff from Sony/etc, which rest entirely just behind the pinna.


----------



## Juturna

After spending some more time with the Technics AZ60 I really, really like them! 

After some more EQ-ing, the bass is now less bloated but still very present. 
Vocals sound really good, the sound is overall just smooth and not fatiguing at all. Seems detailed enough. 
Feel like they're better for pop and electronic music over guitar-based/heavy music, but tinkering with the EQ I think most people could find enjoyment out of these earbuds. 
I still feel like I'm trying to find the "perfect" sound for me in earbuds and I haven't found it so far, but these come somewhat close. 
Fit is superb though they make my ears produce more wet earwax (maybe TMI). I prefer a deep fit, but it seems like my ears don't. Will probably try to find a good set of more shallow-fitting earbuds for my next pair. 
Call quality seems to be very good (especially for not being stem-style) even if it seems sensitive to wind. 
ANC is great, but not excellent. As long as you're playing music at reasonable levels you're probably not going to be bothered, but I noticed that I could hear my bathroom faucet with these way more than some other buds that I have.
The touch-triggered pads on the buds are a bit too sensitive. I had the hood on my jacket up the other day because it was raining like crazy and it kept pausing and playing the music because the earbuds just slightly touched the fabric on the inside of the hood. 

I wish I could find an earbud that had the bass capabilites of the Devialet Geminis with the mids of the Technics AZ60 and the highs of the... I don't know, Sennheiser MTW2's, maybe? Deep sub-bass rumble with at least a little bit of slam in the mid-bass (when the song requires it) with clear mids and some slight focus on vocals and clarity, with slightly more "crisp" highs.


----------



## Juturna

To add to my previous post, that would be a fun game to hear from you guys: 

If you could combine different aspects of the sound and features of different TWS earbuds, what would be your combinations?


----------



## _mouse_

Juturna said:


> After spending some more time with the Technics AZ60 I really, really like them!
> 
> After some more EQ-ing, the bass is now less bloated but still very present.
> Vocals sound really good, the sound is overall just smooth and not fatiguing at all. Seems detailed enough.
> ...


May you show your eq?


----------



## guitarizt

Ceeluh7 said:


> The ZAS are very nice. The AZ09 Pro is what everyone has been talking about. Also, the FH3 are some of my favorite ever


Thanks I'll get the pros, but I'll hold off just a bit for now. Maybe my arias will come soon to tide me over.


Ceeluh7 said:


> Crinacle made the Fhe with boosted bass but says he did so in a way that the bass does not infringe on the Mids or anywhere else on the spectrum. For $129 the FH3 are so good man. I have had them for about a year and I always always go back to them. I have much more expensive iems but I just love the sound sig of the FH3. Anyways you may enjoy the ZAS, many do... I happen to love the bass and just the tonality. Honestly man there are so many iems that are bonkers good at every price point down to $10 bucks. Not kidding.


I'll rewatch giz's review on the eclipse as well. I think I could save money and be on the safe side and go with the fh3 then. I also don't think I like crin's tuning pref if he happened to alter other frequencies.

I used my leas with utws3's yesterday with iphone in car. The hook at the top of the 3's don't hang of my ear and instead are like over it, so it feels like I have something just flopping behind my ear which is annoying. Ok at home, but even too much in a car let alone walking around. It was worse with the mmcx to 2 pin adapter.

The worst thing is that the leas need to be eq'ed to really stand out, but I don't have a system wide eq on my iphone like on my pc.


----------



## LordToneeus

erockg said:


> That's nuts.  Actually, I feel like the output of the 3s are working better for me here.  Odd.  The 5s didn't do as well with my Variations or Mangird.  Try those AZ09 Pros.  Fo the price, whew.  Really surprising.  Been using them all day.  They were $46 on Amazon and then I added a 3 year warranty for $6.  They're tiny and my IEMs fit great in the case with the adapters connected.


Yeah, I had the pro’s but returned them because I didn’t want to mod them. I’ve since reordered them from China. I was excited to try the UTWS5 with my Arias, but no dice.


----------



## LordToneeus

Ceeluh7 said:


> There is something wrong, you shouldn't pull the Leas past 50/100. Is absolute volume disableb and did you turn the sound all the way up on the adapters, sorry if that is a stupid question


Couldn’t get the adapters to stay connected to the Fiio app. Would connect for a split sec then go back to disconnected screen. Sending them back to Audio46 (on my dime).


----------



## LordToneeus

guitarizt said:


> Thanks I'll get the pros, but I'll hold off just a bit for now. Maybe my arias will come soon to tide me over.
> 
> I'll rewatch giz's review on the eclipse as well. I think I could save money and be on the safe side and go with the fh3 then. I also don't think I like crin's tuning pref if he happened to alter other frequencies.
> 
> ...


I love the sound of the Leas, but even with three different cables I couldn’t find a comfy, secure fit with the stock ear tips. Haven’t had that issue in a while.


----------



## Ceeluh7

guitarizt said:


> Thanks I'll get the pros, but I'll hold off just a bit for now. Maybe my arias will come soon to tide me over.
> 
> I'll rewatch giz's review on the eclipse as well. I think I could save money and be on the safe side and go with the fh3 then. I also don't think I like crin's tuning pref if he happened to alter other frequencies.
> 
> ...


Ya, the fit may not be for everyone... It's a shame because utws3 is a beast with awesome tonality. On some sets I may like it better than the utws5. Ios doesn't have any eq app? I use android, always have and one luxery is in Audio. Does iPhone have wavelet? 

Are you still needing to crank the volume for the leas? I think they are 32 ohm and 105 sensitivity... That should go pretty loud with the Utws3. 

Crin is a very polarizing fugure in the audio world... Truthfully I agree with about 1/3 of what he says, though I respect the dudes thoughts and he is definitely well versed in audio. I just don't get with his idea of what is or is not good all the time. Nobody is exactly the same. Not all of his sets are tuned the same.


----------



## Ceeluh7

guitarizt said:


> LordToneeus said:
> 
> 
> > I love the sound of the Leas, but even with three different cables I couldn’t find a comfy, secure fit with the stock ear tips. Haven’t had that issue in a while.
> ...


----------



## Ceeluh7

LordToneeus said:


> Couldn’t get the adapters to stay connected to the Fiio app. Would connect for a split sec then go back to disconnected screen. Sending them back to Audio46 (on my dime).


Boy does that stink. Mine connect every time. Have you reset the adapters to see if that helps. I'm sorry you have to send them back.


----------



## scubaphish (Jan 19, 2022)

LordToneeus said:


> Yeah, I had the pro’s but returned them because I didn’t want to mod them. I’ve since reordered them from China. I was excited to try the UTWS5 with my Arias, but no dice.


I could be mistaken but I think the difference between 09 and 09 pro is AptX. That being the case, if you’re using an iPhone could get the AZ09 in B pin model and won’t have to mod. At least I think.

Edit: longer battery life, too. Not enough info on website of differing amps used


----------



## Ceeluh7

scubaphish said:


> I could be mistaken but I think the difference between 09 and 09 pro is AptX. That being the case, if you’re using an iPhone could get the AZ09 in B pin model and won’t have to mod. At least I think.
> 
> Edit: longer battery life, too. Not enough info on website of differing amps used


I think, and could be wrong, but I think the output power may be a bit more as well as having high gain mode. I'm not 100% about that though.


----------



## HaliHarry

Juturna said:


> After spending some more time with the Technics AZ60 I really, really like them!
> 
> After some more EQ-ing, the bass is now less bloated but still very present.
> Vocals sound really good, the sound is overall just smooth and not fatiguing at all. Seems detailed enough.
> ...


Try Noble Fokus Pro


----------



## guitarizt

Ceeluh7 said:


> Ya, the fit may not be for everyone... It's a shame because utws3 is a beast with awesome tonality. On some sets I may like it better than the utws5. Ios doesn't have any eq app? I use android, always have and one luxery is in Audio. Does iPhone have wavelet?
> 
> Are you still needing to crank the volume for the leas? I think they are 32 ohm and 105 sensitivity... That should go pretty loud with the Utws3.
> 
> Crin is a very polarizing fugure in the audio world... Truthfully I agree with about 1/3 of what he says, though I respect the dudes thoughts and he is definitely well versed in audio. I just don't get with his idea of what is or is not good all the time. Nobody is exactly the same. Not all of his sets are tuned the same.


Just looked for wavelet on the app store, no luck. I'll search harder someday, but for now the galaxy pros work well.

My leas work well with the utws3's for vol. It was LordToneeus that was having to crank the vol.


LordToneeus said:


> Just received my UTWS5s and hooked up my new Tripowin Lea’s. Had to crank the volume to - I kid you not - 100% to get them to anywhere near appreciable. I have never had to crank my phone to 100% volume for anything.  Also, the Fiio app does not work with them for me… for now.


I forgot that if I have eq enabled in the fiios app for my utws3's, it really lowers the volume. I keep eq disabled in the fiios app for this reason.


----------



## Ceeluh7

guitarizt said:


> Just looked for wavelet on the app store, no luck. I'll search harder someday, but for now the galaxy pros work well.
> 
> My leas work well with the utws3's for vol. It was LordToneeus that was having to crank the vol.
> 
> I forgot that if I have eq enabled in the fiios app for my utws3's, it really lowers the volume. I keep eq disabled in the fiios app for this reason.


Ahhhh yes, that is the problem... The eq in the Fiio app doesn't really work. I use eq in poweramp or uapp or Hiby Player for both utws3 and utws5. He is exactly right the EQ is weird on the Fiio app and brings the volume way down and is really only good for like podcasts. This makes sense... Turn off the eq


----------



## LordToneeus

Ceeluh7 said:


> Ahhhh yes, that is the problem... The eq in the Fiio app doesn't really work. I use eq in poweramp or uapp or Hiby Player for both utws3 and utws5. He is exactly right the EQ is weird on the Fiio app and brings the volume way down and is really only good for like podcasts. This makes sense... Turn off the eq


I couldn't even get that far into the app.  The units keep disconnecting, so if the app's worked some voodoo mojo on them they're stuck that way now.  Poop.  I tried firing them up and connecting them to my phone again, but no luck.  Also, the Arias barely stay on the connectors - the tiniest tug and they fall off.  I did get some mmcx to 2-pin adapters from Amazon, so I'll try them with my Shure TW2.


----------



## scubaphish

guitarizt said:


> Just looked for wavelet on the app store, no luck. I'll search harder someday, but for now the galaxy pros work well


Don’t think you’ll find wavelet. There are a few eq apps on AppStore but think you’ll find they only work on music downloaded to your phone; no streaming music.


----------



## Ceeluh7

LordToneeus said:


> I couldn't even get that far into the app.  The units keep disconnecting, so if the app's worked some voodoo mojo on them they're stuck that way now.  Poop.  I tried firing them up and connecting them to my phone again, but no luck.  Also, the Arias barely stay on the connectors - the tiniest tug and they fall off.  I did get some mmcx to 2-pin adapters from Amazon, so I'll try them with my Shure TW2.


Ya the arias unfortunately are a bit recessed.


----------



## erockg

These had gone back up to regular price but are now back on sale for an insane price IMO:  https://www.akg.com/Headphones/Earb...1&sfmc_id=3202334&utm_id=463669et_rid=3202334


----------



## BooleanBones

erockg said:


> These had gone back up to regular price but are now back on sale for an insane price IMO:  https://www.akg.com/Headphones/Earb...1&sfmc_id=3202334&utm_id=463669et_rid=3202334


They are small right? No proprietary tips, etc right? I may snag them for the hell of it


----------



## scubaphish

HaliHarry said:


> Try Noble Fokus Pro


If anyone interested in getting Fokus Pro, I suggest getting what you can find now. There’s an open box at audio46. This is from Noble website:
“*UNFORTUNATELY PRODUCTION OF THE FOKUS PRO HAS BEEN SUSPENDED DUE TO KNOWLES BEING UNABLE TO SUPPLY THE BALANCED ARMATURE DRIVERS NEEDED FOR THE FOKUS PRO. THE KNOWLES FACTORY THAT PRODUCES THE REQUIRED DRIVERS WAS DAMAGED BY A SUPER TYPHOON IN THE PHILLIPINES. WE EXPECT THAT PRODUCTION SHOULD RESUME IN FEBRUARY OR MARCH OF 2022, BUT THAT WILL OF COURSE DEPEND ON KNOWLES.”*


----------



## scubaphish

BooleanBones said:


> They are small right? No proprietary tips, etc right? I may snag them for the hell of it


If I had one gripe with them it’s that they stuck out of my ears a bit further than I would have liked.


----------



## erockg

BooleanBones said:


> They are small right? No proprietary tips, etc right? I may snag them for the hell of it


No proprietary tips. I personally think they’re small. I don’t have them anymore I gifted them all after purchasing at that price.  Considering grabbing a pair again because I did love the sound they put out.  That price is hard to pass up.


----------



## erockg

scubaphish said:


> If I had one gripe with them it’s that they stuck out of my ears a bit further than I would have liked.


I can see that. I took off the wing tips because they fit my ears better without them.


----------



## Canabuc

As great as it seems the Fokus are, any earbuds with no ANC and ambient mode in 2022 seems to defeat the purpose for me.
At that point might as well use IEM and ear by adapter and get an even better sound and will be even less expensive.


----------



## xSDMx

Canabuc said:


> As great as it seems the Fokus are, any earbuds with no ANC and ambient mode in 2022 seems to defeat the purpose for me.
> At that point might as well use IEM and ear by adapter and get an even better sound and will be even less expensive.


Not only that, but, in the case of the TW2... you also still get ambient mode!


----------



## jant71

scubaphish said:


> If anyone interested in getting Fokus Pro, I suggest getting what you can find now. There’s an open box at audio46. This is from Noble website:
> “*UNFORTUNATELY PRODUCTION OF THE FOKUS PRO HAS BEEN SUSPENDED DUE TO KNOWLES BEING UNABLE TO SUPPLY THE BALANCED ARMATURE DRIVERS NEEDED FOR THE FOKUS PRO. THE KNOWLES FACTORY THAT PRODUCES THE REQUIRED DRIVERS WAS DAMAGED BY A SUPER TYPHOON IN THE PHILLIPINES. WE EXPECT THAT PRODUCTION SHOULD RESUME IN FEBRUARY OR MARCH OF 2022, BUT THAT WILL OF COURSE DEPEND ON KNOWLES.”*


Tell them to stop whining and just get some Sonion instead.


----------



## Ceeluh7

jant71 said:


> Tell them to stop whining and just get some Sonion instead.


Right! There are other options


----------



## erockg

Canabuc said:


> As great as it seems the Fokus are, any earbuds with no ANC and ambient mode in 2022 seems to defeat the purpose for me.
> At that point might as well use IEM and ear by adapter and get an even better sound and will be even less expensive.


Funny though, all I seem to be listening to this week are earbuds with no ANC and Ambient!  The NFPs are special, but mine are collecting some dust for a week +.  Maybe the market/demand for them will rise and I can make a nice profit?


----------



## erockg

erockg said:


> Funny though, all I seem to be listening to this week are earbuds with no ANC and Ambient!  The NFPs are special, but mine are collecting some dust for a week +.  Maybe the market/demand for them will rise and I can make a nice profit?


Oddly enough, I put the Noble Fokus Pro tips on the Mangrid Tea with the KZ AZ09 Pro and I'm good.  Good stuff.  The KZ adapters are so effin tiny.  It's like wearing nothing at all.  Hey now.


----------



## tinyman392

Canabuc said:


> As great as it seems the Fokus are, any earbuds with no ANC and ambient mode in 2022 seems to defeat the purpose for me.
> At that point might as well use IEM and ear by adapter and get an even better sound and will be even less expensive.


I think we had a debate about this before regarding TWS with no additional features besides TWS.  It move more funding towards generating a better sounding IEM since it doesn't need additional bells and whistles.  Think of it like buying a performance version of a car, a lot of the time you end up sacrificing luxuries to get said performance.  However, for a similar price, you can get all the luxuries and the minimal performance needed.  Then you can enter the space where you are given both (which would be the luxury performance segment) where you pay an arm and a leg to get the best audio quality and all the bells and whistles with it.  This segment tends to be super pricey though (to the point where people will complain).


----------



## erockg

tinyman392 said:


> I think we had a debate about this before regarding TWS with no additional features besides TWS.  It move more funding towards generating a better sounding IEM since it doesn't need additional bells and whistles.  Think of it like buying a performance version of a car, a lot of the time you end up sacrificing luxuries to get said performance.  However, for a similar price, you can get all the luxuries and the minimal performance needed.  Then you can enter the space where you are given both (which would be the luxury performance segment) where you pay an arm and a leg to get the best audio quality and all the bells and whistles with it.  This segment tends to be super pricey though (to the point where people will complain).


What he said


----------



## dmphile

Ceeluh7 said:


> Fiio FH5, TRI I3 pro, fiio fd5 if you can find a sale, Kato, Hana 2021, Tanchjim Oxygen (big brother to Hana), final audio e5000 (harder to drive), ikko oh10. These are a start, there is a bunch more but I don't want to throw too many at you and of course what @erockg said...Mangird Tea if you can go higher. I'd check some reviews as all of these have plenty of reviews out there


Thanks for the list. If only I could take the treble down a few notches on the Timeless, it would be perfect. The sound is so detailed and clinical that it gives me goose bumps on certain tracks but on others it becomes too harsh. Anyhow, I pulled the trigger on the OH10's and cancelled my Aria's. lol I may consider the Mangird Tea if OH10's do not satisfy. This forum is bad for my wallet.


----------



## guitarizt

erockg said:


> These had gone back up to regular price but are now back on sale for an insane price IMO:  https://www.akg.com/Headphones/Earb...1&sfmc_id=3202334&utm_id=463669et_rid=3202334


Ha, beat me to it! Also on sale at harmanaudio.com, same price and same free shipping. Idk if there's a diff between the two sites.


----------



## erockg

guitarizt said:


> Ha, beat me to it! Also on sale at harmanaudio.com, same price and same free shipping. Idk if there's a diff between the two sites.


Yeah, same company.  Samsung owns Harman & AKG.


----------



## Tommy C (Jan 19, 2022)

Canabuc said:


> As great as it seems the Fokus are, any earbuds with no ANC and ambient mode in 2022 seems to defeat the purpose for me.
> At that point might as well use IEM and ear by adapter and get an even better sound and will be even less expensive.



The Sennheiser CX 400BT are like that and I really enjoy their sound but they lack features. They have mellow, spacious signature with very balanced sound but with that being said they are friction of the price. Bought them at Shoppers as I had plenty of reward points and they were like $70 USD and they have multipoint-ish so you can toggle connections from the app which is very user friendly with multiple devices and work well.


----------



## Ceeluh7

dmphile said:


> Thanks for the list. If only I could take the treble down a few notches on the Timeless, it would be perfect. The sound is so detailed and clinical that it gives me goose bumps on certain tracks but on others it becomes too harsh. Anyhow, I pulled the trigger on the OH10's and cancelled my Aria's. lol I may consider the Mangird Tea if OH10's do not satisfy. This forum is bad for my wallet.


This hobby is bad for your wallet. Did you check out reviews on the oh10. It is a legend set for sure. I think you made a great purchase.... Let's hope you think you've made a great purchase. It's good to start a bit lower and work your way up. The thing is more money does not quantify to better all the time. In fact sub 350 I don't think it matters as much so long as you keep the price respectably close. The oh10 is a fantastic set.


----------



## Ceeluh7

Tommy C said:


> The Sennheiser CX 400BT are like that and I really enjoy their sound but they lack features. They have mellow, spacious signature with very balanced sound but with that being said they are friction of the price. Bought them at Shoppers as I had plenty of reward points and they were like $70 USD and they have multipoint-ish so you can toggle connections from the app which is very user friendly with multiple devices and work well.


I enjoyed the cx400bt. They are a great set for the price and a notch above. I personally don't need features. I love an app and eq functionality but can live without. Sennheiser app is great too. I still haven't tried either the cx or cx plus as I figured I would be paying for the same SQ on them. Cx400bt, cx, and cx plus, as well as mtw2 are all on sale often on Amazon for really nice and tempting prices.


----------



## Ceeluh7

Are the AKG N400 comparable to the Galaxy Buds Pro as far as SQ goes? I have and use the GBP often at work and just wondering if any of you have owned both and what are the differences between the two as far as SQ goes?


----------



## dmphile

Ceeluh7 said:


> This hobby is bad for your wallet. Did you check out reviews on the oh10. It is a legend set for sure. I think you made a great purchase.... Let's hope you think you've made a great purchase. It's good to start a bit lower and work your way up. The thing is more money does not quantify to better all the time. In fact sub 350 I don't think it matters as much so long as you keep the price respectably close. The oh10 is a fantastic set.


Ya I've pretty much watched all the YT videos and Googled the OH10's and some really good reviews. I'm hoping it'll be the signature that satisfies for long listening periods. While I can appreciate detail and clinically approved earbuds, I'm just looking for some good all around sound that doesn't feel like its being jammed into my head.  I like to "feel" my music and have that separation and that sense of space.


----------



## Ceeluh7

erockg said:


> Oddly enough, I put the Noble Fokus Pro tips on the Mangrid Tea with the KZ AZ09 Pro and I'm good.  Good stuff.  The KZ adapters are so effin tiny.  It's like wearing nothing at all.  Hey now.


Those adapters are very nice. They are a hair thin at times in the Mids and highs but not to a detriment to my ears. They actually sound very good. Crazy for the price, an affordable vehicle to listen to some nice iems... Audio is awesome nowadays


----------



## Ceeluh7

dmphile said:


> Ya I've pretty much watched all the YT videos and Googled the OH10's and some really good reviews. I'm hoping it'll be the signature that satisfies for long listening periods. While I can appreciate detail and clinically approved earbuds, I'm just looking for some good all around sound that doesn't feel like its being jammed into my head.  I like to "feel" my music and have that separation and that sense of space.


Ya I was brainstorming thinking of sets I've had or heard or read alot about that have that type of sound sig. I'm sure we can come up with more if you need to and I'm sure some other crazy audio people on here could come up with a few but man.... Oh10's have been so highly praised for a reason.


----------



## erockg

Ceeluh7 said:


> Those adapters are very nice. They are a hair thin at times in the Mids and highs but not to a detriment to my ears. They actually sound very good. Crazy for the price, an affordable vehicle to listen to some nice iems... Audio is awesome nowadays


They don't fit my Variations, but to my ears the Vs on the TW2 have too much mids/highs for me.  Stupid recessed input!  And if only Fiio would get their act together with a firmware update, or maybe I just got a bunk pair like a few others.


----------



## Ceeluh7

erockg said:


> They don't fit my Variations, but to my ears the Vs on the TW2 have too much mids/highs for me.  Stupid recessed input!  And if only Fiio would get their act together with a firmware update, or maybe I just got a bunk pair like a few others.


I know, it makes rec'ing the utws5 alot more difficult for me. I haven't had any of the issues and truly I can't say anything really negative about them other then...a bit bulky behind the ear (although they fit alot in which adds to the bulk) and the case is huge. That being said I can't just reccomend them with so many having problems. You are right Fiio needs to address this like... Yesterday


----------



## erockg

Ceeluh7 said:


> I know, it makes rec'ing the utws5 alot more difficult for me. I haven't had any of the issues and truly I can't say anything really negative about them other then...a bit bulky behind the ear (although they fit alot in which adds to the bulk) and the case is huge. That being said I can't just reccomend them with so many having problems. You are right Fiio needs to address this like... Yesterday


I do love the volume controls.


----------



## jant71

erockg said:


> They don't fit my Variations, but to my ears the Vs on the TW2 have too much mids/highs for me.  Stupid recessed input!  And if only Fiio would get their act together with a firmware update, or maybe I just got a bunk pair like a few others.


FiiO has a long history with players and things that have software. They need like three versions till they get it right and not a good record of finishing giving things some might want. Waiting on FiiO firmware to address things properly is one scary proposition. Good luck!


----------



## xSDMx

jant71 said:


> FiiO has a long history with players and things that have software. They need like three versions till they get it right and not a good record of finishing giving things some might want. Waiting on FiiO firmware to address things properly is one scary proposition. Good luck!


Only two more weeks, as of two months ago, until ambient mode officially releases for the UTWS5 😉


----------



## erockg

jant71 said:


> FiiO has a long history with players and things that have software. They need like three versions till they get it right and not a good record of finishing giving things some might want. Waiting on FiiO firmware to address things properly is one scary proposition. Good luck!


Do you really think I'm waiting?  I've moved on to my other options.  Thanks for nothin' Fiio.


----------



## erockg

xSDMx said:


> Only two more weeks, as of two months ago, until ambient mode officially releases for the UTWS5 😉


They did just release an iOS app update.  I thought, ooooh... psych!


----------



## Canabuc

erockg said:


> Funny though, all I seem to be listening to this week are earbuds with no ANC and Ambient!  The NFPs are special, but mine are collecting some dust for a week +.  Maybe the market/demand for them will rise and I can make a nice profit?


As is your right and I hope you enjoy it.
Just for me true wireless has to offer me something wired or with adapters can't.

2 years ago it was no wires. Now ANC and ambient are musts.
Heck buds that are 40$ have tjses features so why a set 300$ plus can't manage is beyond me.


----------



## erockg

Canabuc said:


> As is your right and I hope you enjoy it.
> Just for me true wireless has to offer me something wired or with adapters can't.
> 
> 2 years ago it was no wires. Now ANC and ambient are musts.
> Heck buds that are 40$ have tjses features so why a set 300$ plus can't manage is beyond me.


Of course, I hear you.  

Different market for sure.


----------



## erockg

erockg said:


> Of course, I hear you.
> 
> Different market for sure.


Actually, Bragi and Earin came out with their TWS maybe five years or more ago.  Crazy.  What is really sad is that those two companies, one sold their business and the other just can't get it going even though their A-3s were cool, just lacking.  Bragi is the one I truly miss.  They were ahead of the game.  Man, those were some great buds.  I had an audiologist fit me for the Starkey version.  If I could only track down the woman overseas who bought them used on eBay and get them back.  Would have loved to have seen her face when she tried to shove them into her tiny ears.


----------



## Ceeluh7

jant71 said:


> I am enjoying the JH3 quite a bit. Doesn't have to be the best technical earphone but the signature and personality is up their with the best for me. So many times they try to get the resolution and the most extension on the highs or try to force detail and they lose the engagement and fun and immersion factor. JH3 is better than its price but won't take home the technical crown but but it does everything pretty good and has a draw in all three areas so that it only gives you positive and fun traits blended together in a more special way than a lot of earphones and that has nothing to do with price.
> 
> CKS50TW is also a very good all rounder and with EQ and losing the bit of heft it has when outside it makes a lot of sense. Big and enjoyable out there playing ball or in the winter wind is sounds more like a headphone. Not as good sitting around indoors comparing on technical merits but for it's intended use as a portable makes it shine more plus it just works with no issues and has good ergonomics and battery life is a non issue. Besides it is just a 5 series which is the middle since AT goes 1,3,5,7, and 9.
> 
> Unless they nail the fun and likable listen as well I will usually take the more enjoyable one. The best performers have not been my favorites as much as some lower models have been. Tough to get both my preferred taste and great ability combined.


Hey man, thank you for the rec of the Fiio JH3. $39 bucks shouldn't give you this type of fun and musical set. Just enough air and enough low end. The Mids aren't drowned out too much either. I'm glad I went for these... So far you are one of the only people who have really given them a chance. Maybe a couple short reviews on forums here and there but.... Nice I do like the tonality. I have only had them a few hours but so far so good.


----------



## msooffutt (Jan 19, 2022)

I have a question for those who have the noble fokus pros.  Do you guys have connection issues with the right bud?  Indoors, I get a little better connection, with it cutting in and out occasionally,  but outside it was cutting in and out like crazy.  Reminded me of the Sony wf1000Xs.   I really hate to send these back.  Even despite not having transparency and anc (I don’t think these really need anc with how good the passive cancelling is) they sound so great.


----------



## jant71 (Jan 19, 2022)

Ceeluh7 said:


> Hey man, thank you for the rec of the Fiio JH3. $39 bucks shouldn't give you this type of fun and musical set. Just enough air and enough low end. The Mids aren't drowned out too much either. I'm glad I went for these... So far you are one of the only people who have really given them a chance. Maybe a couple short reviews on forums here and there but.... Nice I do like the tonality. I have only had them a few hours but so far so good.


Not many impressions but pretty much the same conclusions. A bit of run in and the ends calm down slightly for more mids focus and if you have some tips that give an even better bass timbre they really are hard to put down. Again, fun and musicality need not be related to price point. FiiO did a nice job and no firmware upgrade necessary.


----------



## Ceeluh7

jant71 said:


> Not many impressions but pretty much the same conclusions. A bit of run in and the ends calm down slightly for more mids focus and if you have some tips that give an even better bass timbre they really are hard to put down. FiiO did a nice job and no firmware upgrade necessary.


I am burning them in a bit but I like them. I don't think I need to cable swap either, it really isn't that bad. The same cable that came with the Fd3. Anyways, just wanted to give you some props... They are a very nice budget set that replays above its price point... I came to that conclusion after only a couple hours. And yes, I will always agree that it is nice to not need any upgrades


----------



## BooleanBones (Jan 19, 2022)

msooffutt said:


> I have a question for those who have the noble fokus pros.  Do you guys have connection issues with the right bud?  Indoors, I get a little better connection, with it cutting in and out occasionally,  but outside it was cutting in and out like crazy.  Reminded me of the Sony wf1000Xs.   I really hate to send these back.  Even despite not having transparency and anc (I don’t think these really need anc with how good the passive cancelling is) they sound so great.


I get it on occasion, but not frequently. I have not gone on walks outside with them or anything yet, but have been outside on the patio. The Noble folks are really responsive via mail and might be worth dropping them a question about it?


----------



## samandhi

jant71 said:


> FiiO has a long history with players and things that have software. They need like three versions till they get it right and not a good record of finishing giving things some might want. Waiting on FiiO firmware to address things properly is one scary proposition. Good luck!


I couldn't have said it better if I tried. I haven't owned a Fiio product since the days when they very first got into the hi-res DAP scene (think X1, X3, X5). I actually still have my X5 OG, and X3II, but never use them. They never finished the FW updates to the software before suddenly abandoning them for their first android DAP. The "in house" software programming type of DAPs was over for good, finished or not. Of course, it is just as much my fault. I Bought them knowing they were sort of half baked, even while Fiio admitted they were, but promised to diligently work on the FW as they went. 

I guess I still haven't forgiven them for that. I don't actively hate them though (regardless of my above paragraph) and have been considering purchasing the UTWSx, as you may/may not know.....


----------



## msooffutt

BooleanBones said:


> I get it on occasion, but not frequently. I have not gone on walks outside with them or anything yet, but have been outside on the patio. The Noble folks are really responsive via mail and might be worth dropping them a question about it?


Thanks for the reply.  I’ll do that when I get a chance.  Before now, I had only used them inside.  When I used them outside, I was moving around a lot.  It could be, because of the sound quality, the Bluetooth connection suffers more than others.  I’ll just have to contact them and see what they say.


----------



## Ceeluh7

samandhi said:


> I couldn't have said it better if I tried. I haven't owned a Fiio product since the days when they very first got into the hi-res DAP scene (think X1, X3, X5). I actually still have my X5 OG, and X3II, but never use them. They never finished the FW updates to the software before suddenly abandoning them for their first android DAP. The "in house" software programming type of DAPs was over for good, finished or not. Of course, it is just as much my fault. I Bought them knowing they were sort of half baked, even while Fiio admitted they were, but promised to diligently work on the FW as they went.
> 
> I guess I still haven't forgiven them for that. I don't actively hate them though (regardless of my above paragraph) and have been considering purchasing the UTWSx, as you may/may not know.....


Man I have had good experience with all Fiio products. I own quite a few of their iems, had a couple fiio Daps and still use my fiio m11 on occasion. I suppose they need to step up their game in the wireless segment and maybe they prob are behind on updates as opposed to other companies but if you think of value for the money... At least for me there isn't many companies that give more


----------



## erockg

msooffutt said:


> Thanks for the reply.  I’ll do that when I get a chance.  Before now, I had only used them inside.  When I used them outside, I was moving around a lot.  It could be, because of the sound quality, the Bluetooth connection suffers more than others.  I’ll just have to contact them and see what they say.


Haven't taken mine outside either, but indoors, I've had the right bud stutter every now and then.  Nothing concerning... YET.


----------



## cresny

samandhi said:


> I couldn't have said it better if I tried. I haven't owned a Fiio product since the days when they very first got into the hi-res DAP scene (think X1, X3, X5). I actually still have my X5 OG, and X3II, but never use them. They never finished the FW updates to the software before suddenly abandoning them for their first android DAP. The "in house" software programming type of DAPs was over for good, finished or not. Of course, it is just as much my fault. I Bought them knowing they were sort of half baked, even while Fiio admitted they were, but promised to diligently work on the FW as they went.
> 
> I guess I still haven't forgiven them for that. I don't actively hate them though (regardless of my above paragraph) and have been considering purchasing the UTWSx, as you may/may not know.....


You guys are scaring me off! I have an unopened UTWS5 sitting here while I wait for my Shuoer S12. I got the FIIO because every other post in the LETSHUOER thread seems to say that they like a good amp and I figured that was the FIIO. Maybe I should just go with the AZ09 Pros to start?


----------



## BooleanBones

msooffutt said:


> Thanks for the reply.  I’ll do that when I get a chance.  Before now, I had only used them inside.  When I used them outside, I was moving around a lot.  It could be, because of the sound quality, the Bluetooth connection suffers more than others.  I’ll just have to contact them and see what they say.


Quite possible. I will try and take mine on the next dog walk and see if it happens more for me. I use mine about the same as you have, primarily inside so far.


----------



## erockg

cresny said:


> You guys are scaring me off! I have an unopened UTWS5 sitting here while I wait for my Shuoer S12. I got the FIIO because every other post in the LETSHUOER thread seems to say that they like a good amp and I figured that was the FIIO. Maybe I should just go with the AZ09 Pros to start?


I literally just dropped mine off at the Amazon store.  Kept the UTWS3 instead.  They do not seem to have any of the same issues I had with the 5s.  Sorry   AND, I'm using those AZ09 Pro right now.  Both the above adapters are great, but for the price, you just can't go wrong with taking a shot with the KZ adapters.


----------



## Ceeluh7

cresny said:


> You guys are scaring me off! I have an unopened UTWS5 sitting here while I wait for my Shuoer S12. I got the FIIO because every other post in the LETSHUOER thread seems to say that they like a good amp and I figured that was the FIIO. Maybe I should just go with the AZ09 Pros to start?


Idk man... That has a planar driver and you might want to check the sensitivity. I don't think the az09 pro will have enough to drive those to full potential. I haven't had issues with utws5 but if you want to rid yourself of concern then take em back. I haven't checked sensitivity on them yet so I don't know for sure


----------



## msooffutt

erockg said:


> Haven't taken mine outside either, but indoors, I've had the right bud stutter every now and then.  Nothing concerning... YET.


That’s the same experience I had indoors, but outside and actively moving around a lot, it was pretty bad.  What I was doing was moving tree limbs out of the yard.  Took about a half hour and the right bud cut in and out the entire time.


----------



## erockg

msooffutt said:


> That’s the same experience I had indoors, but outside and actively moving around a lot, it was pretty bad.  What I was doing was moving tree limbs out of the yard.  Took about a half hour and the right bud cut in and out the entire time.


Ugh, bummer.  I'll have to take myself out for a walk and test them outside.  I don't have a dog.


----------



## erockg

Ceeluh7 said:


> Idk man... That has a planar driver and you might want to check the sensitivity. I don't think the az09 pro will have enough to drive those to full potential. I haven't had issues with utws5 but if you want to rid yourself of concern then take em back. I haven't checked sensitivity on them yet so I don't know for sure


No info on the Shuoer site.  The Mangrid are 18ohm and work flawlessly on those AZ09 Pro.  When you do the triple-click no the left adapter too, it kicks it into overdrive.  Variations are 15ohm but I can't get them connected to them.  I think i can file down a part of the tip on the adapters.  Seems to be a little plastic lip, maybe 1 or so mm.  Trying to muster up that courage and go for it.


----------



## Ceeluh7

erockg said:


> No info on the Shuoer site.  The Mangrid are 18ohm and work flawlessly on those AZ09 Pro.  When you do the triple-click no the left adapter too, it kicks it into overdrive.  Variations are 15ohm but I can't get them connected to them.  I think i can file down a part of the tip on the adapters.  Seems to be a little plastic lip, maybe 1 or so mm.  Trying to muster up that courage and go for it.


What I found was 14 ohm and a sensitivity of 103. It's a planar though. Not normally a set I would put on a source like the AZ09 pro. I could be wrong though. The teas should have no problem or the variations as far as output power but planar need a bit more to bring them to their potential, most of the time. The good thing is the az09 pro are pretty damn cheap so it wouldn't hurt quite as bad. Truthfully if he had a magic ball and new he wouldn't have issues than the Fiio's should be just about okay to drive them. Again I could be wrong, I don't own or haven't tried the s12, it's just something to take into Consideration


----------



## samandhi

Ceeluh7 said:


> Man I have had good experience with all Fiio products. I own quite a few of their iems, had a couple fiio Daps and still use my fiio m11 on occasion. I suppose they need to step up their game in the wireless segment and maybe they prob are behind on updates as opposed to other companies but if you think of value for the money... At least for me there isn't many companies that give more


And I am sure they are great products. I just felt betrayed and ignored as a loyal customer, so they could move on to android, and they never looked back. Again, I don't hold any real grudge at this point. I have just found that for the money to sound to features ratio, iBasso has been better for my wallet than Fiio (except maybe those UTWx, which I really would like to try sometime hehe).


cresny said:


> You guys are scaring me off! I have an unopened UTWS5 sitting here while I wait for my Shuoer S12. I got the FIIO because every other post in the LETSHUOER thread seems to say that they like a good amp and I figured that was the FIIO. Maybe I should just go with the AZ09 Pros to start?


Don't be scared off. Don't listen to me. I am ranting about something that happened many years ago. Fiio could not stand among the top DAP makers if they weren't doing something right. You will never know until you try. That is half of what this hobby is about (experimentation with the goal of top sound to your ears).


Ceeluh7 said:


> Idk man... That has a planar driver and you might want to check the sensitivity. I don't think the az09 pro will have enough to drive those to full potential. I haven't had issues with utws5 but if you want to rid yourself of concern then take em back. I haven't checked sensitivity on them yet so I don't know for sure


Remember that with planars knowing the impedance and sensitivity doesn't help much. Having lower impedance, and high sensitivity (with planers) only means that it can run on anything. Having more current (not voltage) available will drive them to their full potential. The problem is that nobody knows what that magical number is because the headphone/IEM makers don't release amperage requirements (because all other speakers don't need to give this measurement). Plus, if they release this information, even at cheaper prices, less people will buy them thinking they need a higher-powered amp to drive them. They want to sell them to the masses... 

But you are right, they might not get fully driven with the AZ09. I remember when @miserybeforethemusic did a test with the iBasso CF01 and the Tinhifi P1. They could be driven with the CF, but there was barely any headroom, and it was definitely not to their full potential, as was shown by him listening to the same stuff through his A&K afterwards. Good Call!


----------



## cresny (Jan 19, 2022)

erockg said:


> No info on the Shuoer site.  The Mangrid are 18ohm and work flawlessly on those AZ09 Pro.  When you do the triple-click no the left adapter too, it kicks it into overdrive.  Variations are 15ohm but I can't get them connected to them.  I think i can file down a part of the tip on the adapters.  Seems to be a little plastic lip, maybe 1 or so mm.  Trying to muster up that courage and go for it.


The Sh12s are 16 ohms. From what I know that means they should not be hard to drive. Sensitivity is 102+/-1DB@1Khz.  What does that mean amp-wise? I plan to plug them into various amps I have from back in the day (of wires) just to see how they sound, and if the output seems weak then I'll go ahead and open up the FIIO. But most of those various amps happen to be FIIOs that had seen little use and I'd rather not add these to that pile.

edit: thanks @samandhi I think you covered it well.


----------



## Ceeluh7

samandhi said:


> And I am sure they are great products. I just felt betrayed and ignored as a loyal customer, so they could move on to android, and they never looked back. Again, I don't hold any real grudge at this point. I have just found that for the money to sound to features ratio, iBasso has been better for my wallet than Fiio (except maybe those UTWx, which I really would like to try sometime hehe).
> 
> Don't be scared off. Don't listen to me. I am ranting about something that happened many years ago. Fiio could not stand among the top DAP makers if they weren't doing something right. You will never know until you try. That is half of what this hobby is about (experimentation with the goal of top sound to your ears).
> 
> ...


Yeah, I'm just afraid that it prob wouldn't sound all that great. It would likely play through them but just not with any good quality. The p1's are renowned for being difficult to drive. The Timeless love power as well, more power the better. I don't know about the s12 but history kind of tells us that it may not work too well. Truthfully I don't know for sure the Fiio's will drive them really well.


----------



## samandhi

cresny said:


> The Sh12s are 16 ohms. From what I know that means they should not be hard to drive. Sensitivity is 102+/-1DB@1Khz.  What does that mean amp-wise? I plan to plug them into various amps I have from back in the day (of wires) just to see how they sound, and if the output seems weak then I'll go ahead and open up the FIIO. But most of those various amps happen to be FIIOs that had seen little use and I'd rather not add these to that pile.
> 
> edit: thanks @samandhi I think you covered it well.


In all honesty I wouldn't sweat it either way. If you like it, then it doesn't matter. Don't let the thought of them possibly not being driven to full potential get into your head. They will drive and get pretty loud from a weak phone. They simply will scale better with better amping is all.


----------



## samandhi

Ceeluh7 said:


> Yeah, I'm just afraid that it prob wouldn't sound all that great. It would likely play through them but just not with any good quality. The p1's are renowned for being difficult to drive. The Timeless love power as well, more power the better. I don't know about the s12 but history kind of tells us that it may not work too well. Truthfully I don't know for sure the Fiio's will drive them really well.


You certainly make compelling points. I think the Timeless drive from far less because they are way more sensitive than the P1, which are only 93. But they do both scale very well with good amping.


----------



## erockg

cresny said:


> The Sh12s are 16 ohms. From what I know that means they should not be hard to drive. Sensitivity is 102+/-1DB@1Khz.  What does that mean amp-wise? I plan to plug them into various amps I have from back in the day (of wires) just to see how they sound, and if the output seems weak then I'll go ahead and open up the FIIO. But most of those various amps happen to be FIIOs that had seen little use and I'd rather not add these to that pile.
> 
> edit: thanks @samandhi I think you covered it well.


Okay cool.  Well, I did do the hack and filed off some of the extra lip on those AZ09 Pro.  They fit the Moondrop Variations great now and they sure as hell power them really well.  Just as good as the Fiio IMO.  You can do full power mode or not.  If these suckers power the Variation and the Mangird Tea, I can't imagine they wouldn't power those Sh12s.  But I'm no expert.


----------



## samandhi

In the end we all want to think that that $200 we spent bought us the best IEM/headphone/TWS/earbud in the world, and everyone else must be crazy. And there are certainly those gems that DO punch in at much higher than their price tag (ie Audiosense T800), but other times, everyone but you think they are a turd...... Be proud of them, I say!


----------



## erockg

samandhi said:


> In the end we all want to think that that $200 we spent bought us the best IEM/headphone/TWS/earbud in the world, and everyone else must be crazy. And there are certainly those gems that DO punch in at much higher than their price tag (ie Audiosense T800), but other times, everyone but you think they are a turd...... Be proud of them, I say!


Yup, we're all chasing a dream that never ends.


----------



## Ceeluh7

cresny said:


> The Sh12s are 16 ohms. From what I know that means they should not be hard to drive. Sensitivity is 102+/-1DB@1Khz.  What does that mean amp-wise? I plan to plug them into various amps I have from back in the day (of wires) just to see how they sound, and if the output seems weak then I'll go ahead and open up the FIIO. But most of those various amps happen to be FIIOs that had seen little use and I'd rather not add these to that pile.
> 
> edit: thanks @samandhi I think you covered it well.


Tell you what though... I would love to get my hands on the s12. They look very nice. If they can compete with the Timeless then.... That is saying something. I've only seen a couple reviews on them and they've been positive. Also, dude in no way was I trying to scare you off. I was talking about potential and that may have gotten lost there. The az09 pro are no slouch... At all. For the price I really enjoy them, hell for double the price I'd enjoy them. I think you'll be pretty happy with that set though and I can't wait to hear what you think of them


----------



## samandhi

Ceeluh7 said:


> Tell you what though... I would love to get my hands on the s12. They look very nice. If they can compete with the Timeless then.... That is saying something. I've only seen a couple reviews on them and they've been positive. Also, dude in no way was I trying to scare you off. I was talking about potential and that may have gotten lost there. The az09 pro are no slouch... At all. For the price I really enjoy them, hell for double the price I'd enjoy them. I think you'll be pretty happy with that set though and I can't wait to hear what you think of them


The graphs between the two (Timeless, S12) look eerily similar, even though LETSHUOER (yeah they say it supposed to be all caps) says they are totally different drivers. The highs look a bit better on the S12, but graphs aren't "end-all-be-all" after all.


----------



## Ceeluh7

samandhi said:


> The graphs between the two (Timeless, S12) look eerily similar, even though LETSHUOER (yeah they say it supposed to be all caps) says they are totally different drivers. The highs look a bit better on the S12, but graphs aren't "end-all-be-all" after all.


100%...Ya I agree with you about graphs... Some people live and die by them. Which is fine,...but a bit deceiving at times, or, it just doesn't always paint the whole picture. I think the natural set to pit the s12 against would be the Timeless at this point. I am intrigued by the S12 for sure. I am about out of funds at the moment for more audio devices lol... I suppose I will live through others for a bit on this one.. Lol


----------



## samandhi

Ceeluh7 said:


> 100%...Ya I agree with you about graphs... Some people live and die by them. Which is fine,...but a bit deceiving at times, or, it just doesn't always paint the whole picture. I think the natural set to pit the s12 against would be the Timeless at this point. I am intrigued by the S12 for sure. I am about out of funds at the moment for more audio devices lol... I suppose I will live through others for a bit on this one.. Lol


I dunno'. I might have to check out the P1+ for giggles. @ RikudouGoku seems to think they are much improved from the OG P1, and he scored the P1 pretty high, even though he thought them bright (which I did not). I am not too sure about them being better though, because the P1 are the planar IEM that all others must stack up to (IMO), being the first BIG seller of planar IEM (iSine10 don't really count because they sucked until they released the Cypher cable).


----------



## turbobb

Haven't seen these posted, though they look to be more call/productivity oriented than music:
https://www.logitech.com/en-us/products/headsets/zone-true-wireless-earbuds.985-001081.html

There's an app with EQ, Qi wireless, ANC (6hrs) w/transparency, IP68 and multi-point but I can't tell if that's because of the adapter or in spite of it...


----------



## Ceeluh7

samandhi said:


> I dunno'. I might have to check out the P1+ for giggles. @ RikudouGoku seems to think they are much improved from the OG P1, and he scored the P1 pretty high, even though he thought them bright (which I did not). I am not too sure about them being better though, because the P1 are the planar IEM that all others must stack up to (IMO), being the first BIG seller of planar IEM (iSine10 don't really count because they sucked until they released the Cypher cable).


To be honest there is too much out there to try. I have the same feelings about the p1+ as reviewers seem to be grading them a bit higher as you've pointed out. You know how this hobby goes with a new set though, there is always a hype period and normally I like to wait till the dust settles a bit before I bite past a certain price point. I did hear that there is a slight rise in the low end to the p1+ as well as a supposed correction to the brightness you referred to. You are right... The original P1 is the set that all others must be pitted against. I personally liked it well enough yet there was some missing elements that I think my library requires but... No doubt it is one heckuva set for the asking price.


----------



## Ceeluh7

turbobb said:


> Haven't seen these posted, though they look to be more call/productivity oriented than music:
> https://www.logitech.com/en-us/products/headsets/zone-true-wireless-earbuds.985-001081.html
> 
> There's an app with EQ, Qi wireless, ANC (6hrs) w/transparency, IP68 and multi-point but I can't tell if that's because of the adapter or in spite of it...


Feature packed! I didn't notice what codec these were sporting, I think I was reading too fast. They come with a hefty price tag for sure but also have alot to offer... Thanks for sharing


----------



## samandhi

Ceeluh7 said:


> To be honest there is too much out there to try. I have the same feelings about the p1+ as reviewers seem to be grading them a bit higher as you've pointed out. You know how this hobby goes with a new set though, there is always a hype period and normally I like to wait till the dust settles a bit before I bite past a certain price point. I did hear that there is a slight rise in the low end to the p1+ as well as a supposed correction to the brightness you referred to. You are right... The original P1 is the set that all others must be pitted against. I personally liked it well enough yet there was some missing elements that I think my library requires but... No doubt it is one heckuva set for the asking price.


All I can say is: Great minds must think alike! 🔚


----------



## Phaethon

dmphile said:


> So last night, I noticed that while my UTWS5's were charging in the case, they were randomly trying to connect to my smartphone. Looks like I am not immune to some of the bugs/issues with the UTWS5 but hopefully it can be corrected via firmware soon.


UTWS5 is very connection aggressive for me too!


----------



## Phaethon

Ceeluh7 said:


> Ya I tried with the Arias and they stay on but not well... Which in turn means... They don't work with the AZ09 Pro. I currently have the KZ ZAS on them and man these are perfect for these adapters to me. Good clean and punchy bass with the high gain enabled. The Mids sound good, not recessed and the highs sparkle well enough.


I got a good grip on the Moondrop Blessing 2 by using those little tiny connector/converters on the UTWS5 MMCX. The Moondrops can’t stay on the UTWS5 2 pins, but this actually does the trick.


----------



## Phaethon

Ceeluh7 said:


> Fiio FH5, TRI I3 pro, fiio fd5 if you can find a sale, Kato, Hana 2021, Tanchjim Oxygen (big brother to Hana), final audio e5000 (harder to drive), ikko oh10. These are a start, there is a bunch more but I don't want to throw too many at you and of course what @erockg said...Mangird Tea if you can go higher. I'd check some reviews as all of these have plenty of reviews out there


Just got those Ikko OH10s today and they are making me grin on the UTWS5.


----------



## Phaethon

Juturna said:


> After spending some more time with the Technics AZ60 I really, really like them!
> 
> After some more EQ-ing, the bass is now less bloated but still very present.
> Vocals sound really good, the sound is overall just smooth and not fatiguing at all. Seems detailed enough.
> ...


Fokus Pro. Really quite amazing. Open box available for $296 at audio46 earlier today.


----------



## Phaethon

LordToneeus said:


> Couldn’t get the adapters to stay connected to the Fiio app. Would connect for a split sec then go back to disconnected screen. Sending them back to Audio46 (on my dime).


Same problem. I fixed it by deleting the pairing in my iPhones Bluetooth and re-pairing them by having the app discover them and pair and then it asks to pair to my phone. Works now


----------



## alchemical

Phaethon said:


> Fokus Pro. Really quite amazing. Open box available for $296 at audio46 earlier today.


They really are.


----------



## Caipirina

Juturna said:


> After spending some more time with the Technics AZ60 I really, really like them!
> 
> After some more EQ-ing, the bass is now less bloated but still very present.
> Vocals sound really good, the sound is overall just smooth and not fatiguing at all. Seems detailed enough.
> ...


It is terrible how I feel being 'pushed' into 'I need the AZ60' ... 
I have both the Sony XM4 and the Bose QC, love them both and so far have not seen anything that makes me think the AZ60 could be better in this or that department. I still also use the Fiil T2Pro more than anything else, because they are easy to pocket, perfect to wear under winter hats (the Bose are too bulky and the Sony surprised me today with interpreting the hat as fingers and wanting to start bluetooth pairing once I put the hat on!), they also sound amazing! 
So, WHY is it that I still feel I need YET ANOTHER SET?


----------



## sgtbilko

samandhi said:


> I dunno'. I might have to check out the P1+ for giggles. @ RikudouGoku seems to think they are much improved from the OG P1, and he scored the P1 pretty high, even though he thought them bright (which I did not). I am not too sure about them being better though, because the P1 are the planar IEM that all others must stack up to (IMO), being the first BIG seller of planar IEM (iSine10 don't really count because they sucked until they released the Cypher cable).


I'm using the P1+ with the UTWS3 right now. Out of the box, they sound ok, but lack bass. After EQ (using autoeq settings and adding a slight bass boost) they are wonderful. So... if you aren't able to EQ them, I'd say steer clear. If you can EQ, then they put you in another world altogether.


----------



## Ceeluh7

Phaethon said:


> I got a good grip on the Moondrop Blessing 2 by using those little tiny connector/converters on the UTWS5 MMCX. The Moondrops can’t stay on the UTWS5 2 pins, but this actually does the trick.


That is great... Which converter adapter thingies are you using. I have been wanting to put my arias on my utws5


----------



## Ceeluh7

Phaethon said:


> Just got those Ikko OH10s today and they are making me grin on the UTWS5.


I'm sure you are enjoying them... A very nice set. I'm betting they sound great on the utws5. I miss my oh10's. I think I'm going to try to pick up a pair again. Such a great set


----------



## dmphile

Phaethon said:


> Just got those Ikko OH10s today and they are making me grin on the UTWS5.


That'll be my new combo to try soon as well! Can't wait, they're on the way now with ETA in about a week or so. Let me know your thoughts!


----------



## chinmie

Now my BT20S Pro features "EQ changes"


----------



## Phaethon

Ceeluh7 said:


> That is great... Which converter adapter thingies are you using. I have been wanting to put my arias on my utws5


Sorry about the price! https://www.amazon.com/OEAudio-MMCX...476&sprefix=oeaudio,aps,139&sr=8-3&th=1&psc=1


----------



## Ceeluh7

dmphile said:


> That'll be my new combo to try soon as well! Can't wait, they're on the way now with ETA in about a week or so. Let me know your thoughts!





Phaethon said:


> Sorry about the price! https://www.amazon.com/OEAudio-MMCX-0-78mm-Adapter-Clear/dp/B07XKWJK6T/ref=mp_s_a_1_3?crid=ERFCIEN6QQMK&keywords=oeaudio+mmcx&qid=1642682476&sprefix=oeaudio,aps,139&sr=8-3&th=1&psc=1


OH okay those are the ones I have... Cool I'll try that on one of my utws3's... Why didn't I think of that for the Moondrop iems.... Thank you man


----------



## Devodonaldson

Tried the utws5 with my audeze euclid. Lesson learned: these definitely don't sound as good with a warmer iem. Less data, combined with a smoother treble already just lacks, to me. Sounds better with my Solaris. Love my Euclid, but they definitely benefit from a source with a more detailed treble to begin with.


----------



## Phaethon

Ceeluh7 said:


> I'm sure you are enjoying them... A very nice set. I'm betting they sound great on the utws5. I miss my oh10's. I think I'm going to try to pick up a pair again. Such a great set


The OH10s are very genre specific - not all-rounders. I started with 
“Marcus Miller - Detroit” Yum. 
“Lee Morgan - Sidewinder.” Meh. 
“Raspberries - Go All the Way.” Awesome. 
“Str4ta - Aspects” Tasty. 
“Mozart - several contrasting pieces.” Ugh
The OH10s scream “If it ain’t got bass, don’t bother…”


----------



## guitarizt

Anyone have the bose sport? They get great reviews, but haven't seen them mentioned here recently.


----------



## jant71




----------



## Ceeluh7

Phaethon said:


> The OH10s are very genre specific - not all-rounders. I started with
> “Marcus Miller - Detroit” Yum.
> “Lee Morgan - Sidewinder.” Meh.
> “Raspberries - Go All the Way.” Awesome.
> ...


I can agree with that... Def a nice and well done  V-shaped iem... To me. Sound good at what they are made for.


----------



## dmphile

Ceeluh7 said:


> I can agree with that... Def a nice and well done  V-shaped iem... To me. Sound good at what they are made for.


Its weird, I've read mostly consistent reviews of the OH10's on their overall sound signature but some conflicting ones that say it's too harsh and not very good imaging and even fatiguing (which is not what I want)...this hobby confuses me sometimes but I suppose that's the interesting part. It's never apples to apples comparisons. Mostly trial and error to find the type of sound you like and hopefully somebody shares similar enough taste to lead to you to the water!~


----------



## tinyman392

Devodonaldson said:


> Tried the utws5 with my audeze euclid. Lesson learned: these definitely don't sound as good with a warmer iem. Less data, combined with a smoother treble already just lacks, to me. Sounds better with my Solaris. Love my Euclid, but they definitely benefit from a source with a more detailed treble to begin with.


I never found the Euclid to be a warm IEM. Specifically I felt they were devoid of any warmth until paired with a warmer source.


----------



## Ceeluh7

dmphile said:


> Its weird, I've read mostly consistent reviews of the OH10's on their overall sound signature but some conflicting ones that say it's too harsh and not very good imaging and even fatiguing (which is not what I want)...this hobby confuses me sometimes but I suppose that's the interesting part. It's never apples to apples comparisons. Mostly trial and error to find the type of sound you like and hopefully somebody shares similar enough taste to lead to you to the water!~


Ya, reviews are subjective and should always be treated as such. You have to understand that some just like really Conflicting sound signatures and styles. I try to get to know certain reviewers and what they like and maybe even their library. The great great majority praise the oh10 but on any set you will see those who think differently. I wouldn't say take reviews with a grain of salt but I would advise to keep an open mind that not everyone has the same likes and dislikes. Some people/reviewers cannot stand any brightness whatsoever, some want more of a diffuse field, some enjoy a much more lively sound etc. and it will reflect in their findings. I try to take it all in and read and watch (YouTube) as many reviews as I can before I purchase anything. I almost never hear the same veiws on anything.


----------



## jant71

To be honest guys maybe it should split into two threads one for TWS and one for adapters. A bit much if we are gonna get into the adapters plus all the earphones to put on them and the MMCX and two-pin converters, etc.


----------



## Ceeluh7

jant71 said:


> To be honest guys maybe it should split into two threads one for TWS and one for adapters. A bit much if we are gonna get into the adapters plus all the earphones to put on them and the MMCX and two-pin converters, etc.


There is alot of the adapter talk... Alot of iem talk as well being that they are required for adapters... Understandable.


----------



## jant71

Ceeluh7 said:


> There is alot of the adapter talk... Alot of iem talk as well being that they are required for adapters... Understandable.


It will get worse if you think about it. Slow time for TWS so not so bad but could be a real mess when it gets busier. Or if there are hot new things in both types at the same time. Or that new Noble with aptX Loseless and Sony quality ANC for $199 is blowing up and you got that one "can these adapters power earphone X" question in the midst of it.


----------



## cresny

jant71 said:


> It will get worse if you think about it. Slow time for TWS so not so bad but could be a real mess when it gets busier. Or if there are hot new things in both types at the same time. Or that new Noble with aptX Loseless and Sony quality ANC for $199 is blowing up and you got that one "can these adapters power earphone X" question in the midst of it.


I think the ear hooks are more of a two-steps-back thing before whatever two-steps-forward comes next. Sort of a TWS dongle and who really likes dongles? With Qualcomm pushing power savings, better battery technology, AI-on-chipsets, etc. there is a lot to look forward to in this space. And no, we are not there yet


----------



## Devodonaldson

tinyman392 said:


> I never found the Euclid to be a warm IEM. Specifically I felt they were devoid of any warmth until paired with a warmer source.


Perhaps warm was a bit exaggerated. They aren't bright to begin with. Bluetooth codecs lose in the higher frequencies. Used to hearing Ruclid on Shanling M8, so listening to them on apt x adaptive the treble detail just feels too sub par. (Especially since I've been listening to Euclid through m8 exclusively for the last 2 weeks, since I just got them recently.


----------



## Ceeluh7

jant71 said:


> It will get worse if you think about it. Slow time for TWS so not so bad but could be a real mess when it gets busier. Or if there are hot new things in both types at the same time. Or that new Noble with aptX Loseless and Sony quality ANC for $199 is blowing up and you got that one "can these adapters power earphone X" question in the midst of it.


That's all valid. Adapters are kind of infringing on a dedicated space for tws... And we all know tws is just a different animal. Valid points


----------



## Ceeluh7

jant71 said:


> It will get worse if you think about it. Slow time for TWS so not so bad but could be a real mess when it gets busier. Or if there are hot new things in both types at the same time. Or that new Noble with aptX Loseless and Sony quality ANC for $199 is blowing up and you got that one "can these adapters power earphone X" question in the midst of it.


Hey BTW... You are in the loop on all this new stuff... I did not hear about the new Noble. What is it?


----------



## jant71

Ceeluh7 said:


> Hey BTW... You are in the loop on all this new stuff... I did not hear about the new Noble. What is it?


It is the stuff of dreams.

Gotcha!


----------



## actorlife

Hi guys😁 are these any good? Ive heard the pros are great, but wanted to try their budget ones:
Status Audio Between Micro https://www.amazon.com/dp/B09LH4SKS...t_i_ECTFBSMARMQ7VMB7781P?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1


----------



## Ceeluh7

jant71 said:


> It is the stuff of dreams.
> 
> Gotcha!


Yes sir.... You certainly did... 😆


----------



## Ceeluh7

actorlife said:


> Hi guys😁 are these any good? Ive heard the pros are great, but wanted to try their budget ones:
> Status Audio Between Micro https://www.amazon.com/dp/B09LH4SKS...t_i_ECTFBSMARMQ7VMB7781P?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1


They don't list the codec? Hmm... I should prob assume AAC/SBC. Could obv be wrong. They look nice and compact


----------



## actorlife

Ceeluh7 said:


> They don't list the codec? Hmm... I should prob assume AAC/SBC. Could obv be wrong. They look nice and compact


No aptx, but thats ok. Got the budget Earfun recently they are really good.


----------



## Ceeluh7

actorlife said:


> No aptx, but thats ok. Got the budget Earfun recently they are really good.


OH ya.. That's not a deal breaker by any means... I was simply wondering, just a bonus if it has aptx at that price. I have a few absolutely awesome sets with AAC.


----------



## Ceeluh7

FYI.... Amazon US has a sale on the Ugreen X5 and X6. The X5 which has gotten some very nice reviews are now 51% off at only $24. The X6 w/ANC (I don't think it's very good anc) is on sale for $37ish. Just thought I'd pass along some news on a couple good beater pairs that have gotten so far pretty nice reviews.


----------



## tinyman392

Devodonaldson said:


> Perhaps warm was a bit exaggerated. They aren't bright to begin with. Bluetooth codecs lose in the higher frequencies. Used to hearing Ruclid on Shanling M8, so listening to them on apt x adaptive the treble detail just feels too sub par. (Especially since I've been listening to Euclid through m8 exclusively for the last 2 weeks, since I just got them recently.


I found them to be quite bright IMO.  They reminded me of an Etymotic ER4SR (not XR) with a subtle bass boost and slightly hotter treble.  I tend to listen to 256 AAC with my iPhone.  Wired or wireless it ends up being encoded into the same codec.


----------



## nijfi

Quick question, if I may.

I have a friend who wants the best bang for his £50 first pair of tws. What's the latest recommendations please?

I have the Soundcore Liberty 3 Pro myself, which I'm very happy with. I originally suggested the old version (pre LDAC) Liberty 2 pro as at one point they were discounted right down to just about £50. Unfortunately, I can't find that price again now, so anything else out there to compare?

He wants them to use whilst skating. He's been very happy with Beats headphones before, so put him down as a bass head that doesn't over analyse things. Mostly listens to drum and bass.

Don't think he's bothered too much about ANC or call quality, but if ANC has filtered down to the £50 price point, then all the better... Probably.

Thanks in advance for any responses.


----------



## regancipher

SoundPEATS app is back out and finally stable - Air3 and H1 are supported, others are pending. Some nice features like toggling wear detection on the Air3 and the LED's on the H1, as well as adaptive EQ. Unfortunately it's one of those where you have to register your email and sign in.

Some pics here in my H1 and Air3 reviews. I'll upload a YouTube video in due course (https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCH6h7agGcLNqqw_zV8DMD5Q)


----------



## Not so fat head

Ceeluh7 said:


> There is alot of the adapter talk... Alot of iem talk as well being that they are required for adapters... Understandabl



Yep, we need a separate blog for the adapters.  Since the adapters have far more real estate, with which to cram batteries, chips, amplifiers..etc.., they’ll probably be the first to hit true high fi..
But one needs to be a little crazy to wear large dongles behind their ears.. 😃
I remember people beating up Bose for their Sound Sports Free TWS because of the size (which are excellent headphones btw).  The adapter route will never be a big market…


----------



## guitarizt (Jan 20, 2022)

Just got my leyding cable and arias. Surprised me cause the tracking never updated. They only took 12 days and 16 days to come but felt like forever.

The arias within less than a second I knew was what I was looking for tonally. They're my fav's by a decent margin right now for tonality. Surprisingly, second place is the leas. The timeless are great technically, but something about them feels unnatural with the way the sounds mesh together. It could be that I'm just not into planar, which wouldn't be that surprising. I tend to like a closed off suffocated sound. I'm not really into open back headphones or grados.

The con of the arias is the treble can be what I'd call shouty. I'm not sure if I'm using the correct term others would use to describe what I'm hearing. I can't really eq it out without killing the sound, but I'm nitpicking and critiquing these ignoring the price. I'd imagine the blessing 2's and variations would have more natural mids and treble, but they make you pay for it. When you consider the price of the arias, they're insanely good and everyone should buy them. I feel like they've gotten lost in the hype of the timeless and others on here.

The leyding cable I got is 'HiFiGo Kinera Leyding 5N OFC Alloy Copper 8 Core Silver-Plated Hybrid Cable'. It's pricey at 70, but giz approved. It helps the bass on the timeless with 2.5mm connector. I was worried about it being worse than the stock 3.5mm cable I got with the timeless, which must be pretty good because I hated the 2.5mm tripowin zonie 16 spc I tried.

I'll have to mix and match more cables with all the iem's I've gotten recently. Hopefully the zonie 16's sound good with something because I got two, mmcx and 2 pin.

[edit] Tried the second zone 16 cable I got with the arias. Holy sh#@ they're way better. More and tighter bass, and the mids and highs are more pleasing to the hear. Either quality control since it's a diff cable, or these just happen to sound great with the aria and not the timeless. This is way better than they leyding cable, though. Ugh, this hobby!

[edit 2] Sound great on the second zonie 16 cable with mmcx to 2 pin adapters. They just work well with that cable for some reason. They also sound good on the utws3's over BT. Arias and the az09 pros are prob the best deal ever.

I'm not a fan of the stock cable that come with the arias. The sound good straight into my pc's headphone jack, a bit better in btr5, but for $20 with the zonie 16 it gets at least half a grade better. Idk how to grade things, but I'd say more than half a grade better, and less than 1.5 grades better. Still my first impressions, though, and maybe not a fair comparison to the stock unbalanced cable.


----------



## erockg

Anyone who still has their Devialet Gemini, did they ever release that firmware update to fix the battery drain?  Guessing no.


----------



## scubaphish

erockg said:


> Anyone who still has their Devialet Gemini, did they ever release that firmware update to fix the battery drain?  Guessing no.


Nope, not yet…still about 4-4.5 hours of use


----------



## Ceeluh7

guitarizt said:


> Just got my leyding cable and arias. Surprised me cause the tracking never updated. They only took 12 days and 16 days to come but felt like forever.
> 
> The arias within less than a second I knew was what I was looking for tonally. They're my fav's by a decent margin right now for tonality. Surprisingly, second place is the leas. The timeless are great technically, but something about them feels unnatural with the way the sounds mesh together. It could be that I'm just not into planar, which wouldn't be that surprising. I tend to like a closed off suffocated sound. I'm not really into open back headphones or grados.
> 
> ...


So the Arias are just mini Katos... They are all tuned to a degree the same. BTW i love the Aria too. Another set which is Harman tuned as well and is a direct competitor to the Aria is the Tin Hifi T3+.... Tonally very similar but with a bit more liveliness. Also, I agree about the cable. I personally did not like the Aria cable and have used a Kbear 16 core spc balanced cable I got from Amazon for.... Maybe $20. It's basically just like the Zonie cable. It's 
All about synergy, not everything sounds good with everything else, cables included, dac/amps included, adapters, bt devices... They have to pair well. I am going to throw the Zonie cable on in a bit, who knows maybe it'll work a bit better than the kbear. Thanks man


----------



## erockg

scubaphish said:


> Nope, not yet…still about 4-4.5 hours of use


Blah, I kinda figured.  I have a Best Buy gift card burning a hole in my pocket and considered taking another shot.  Oh well.


----------



## scubaphish

erockg said:


> Blah, I kinda figured.  I have a Best Buy gift card burning a hole in my pocket and considered taking another shot.  Oh well.


They sound so good (to me). There’s air between the instruments. Still worth the trade off for me.but I understand your hesitation completely


----------



## guitarizt

Ceeluh7 said:


> So the Arias are just mini Katos... They are all tuned to a degree the same. BTW i love the Aria too. Another set which is Harman tuned as well and is a direct competitor to the Aria is the Tin Hifi T3+.... Tonally very similar but with a bit more liveliness. Also, I agree about the cable. I personally did not like the Aria cable and have used a Kbear 16 core spc balanced cable I got from Amazon for.... Maybe $20. It's basically just like the Zonie cable. It's
> All about synergy, not everything sounds good with everything else, cables included, dac/amps included, adapters, bt devices... They have to pair well. I am going to throw the Zonie cable on in a bit, who knows maybe it'll work a bit better than the kbear. Thanks man


Thx, I've seen the t3+ name thrown around. I'll note it.

Yeah, I just updated my original post. I'm not a fan of the cable the aria comes with. Upgrading for $20 to a balanced zonie 16 gets the aria into another tier imo. 

I am really shocked by the aria. It far surpassed my expectations. Not even really craving the blessing 2 or the variations. Also still think the leas are great regardless of price, and then you see the price and they're just must buys imo.


----------



## Phaethon

scubaphish said:


> Nope, not yet…still about 4-4.5 hours of use


That was the death of them for me. Tried them twice - returned them twice.


----------



## Ceeluh7

guitarizt said:


> Thx, I've seen the t3+ name thrown around. I'll note it.
> 
> Yeah, I just updated my original post. I'm not a fan of the cable the aria comes with. Upgrading for $20 to a balanced zonie 16 gets the aria into another tier imo.
> 
> I am really shocked by the aria. It far surpassed my expectations. Not even really craving the blessing 2 or the variations. Also still think the leas are great regardless of price, and then you see the price and they're just must buys imo.


Aria is a set everyone should at least try... It punches way above its price. In that 50 - 100 range it is a top 5 in seemingly everyone's list. I'm glad you like it, nothing better than making a satisfied purchase. As with every price tier there are others which compete well against the Aria but there is something special about that set. I feel the same about the T3+ which is a hair cheaper. To be honest the Iems like the Kato is an upgrade across the board but truthfully it isn't monumental, it's incremental and it carries the same tonality. Another to try which is legend status is the Moondrop Starfield which again, same tonality, a bit better imaging but $25 bucks more. Aria is a great buy man and I'm happy you made it.


----------



## erockg

Ceeluh7 said:


> Aria is a set everyone should at least try... It punches way above its price. In that 50 - 100 range it is a top 5 in seemingly everyone's list. I'm glad you like it, nothing better than making a satisfied purchase. As with every price tier there are others which compete well against the Aria but there is something special about that set. I feel the same about the T3+ which is a hair cheaper. To be honest the Iems like the Kato is an upgrade across the board but truthfully it isn't monumental, it's incremental and it carries the same tonality. Another to try which is legend status is the Moondrop Starfield which again, same tonality, a bit better imaging but $25 bucks more. Aria is a great buy man and I'm happy you made it.


For the price, the Starfield are really great.  Great full sound.  I loved them.


----------



## Xinlisupreme

erockg said:


> I thought the same as you and then read great things.  The build is so very nice and the sound really is great.  Sure, I get it, it's s ton of $$, but I can't think of a bud I've tried recently that crushes them.  Yet.  The mold of the buds is just killer.  I have to hand it to Noble, they did a really great job and I've forgotten about ANC and Transparency/Ambient on these.  If I want the latter, I'll pop in my Marshall buds, Shure TW2 or well... yeah, I sold off most of the others.  The problem I'm having now is when I stop listening to my IEMs on an adapter or the Noble, I'm disappointed by the sound of other TWS.  Not a bad problem to have but you know.
> 
> All the above said, if we all ask, maybe they'll listen and do that ambient upgrade sooner than later.


Did you compare ZE3000 with Fokus Pro?


----------



## Bobbetybob

nijfi said:


> Quick question, if I may.
> 
> I have a friend who wants the best bang for his £50 first pair of tws. What's the latest recommendations please?
> 
> ...


Sounds like the Earfun Free Pro 2 would be right up his alley, good sound with chunky bass, some of the comfiest TWS in my opinion and great for sports because they've got wingtips so they have a secure fit. They do have ANC but it only seems to block very low sounds so it's not great, they also have a pass through mode which might be more useful when skating.

The price on Amazon is £70 but they seem to always have a £20 voucher available.


----------



## erockg

Xinlisupreme said:


> Did you compare ZE3000 with Fokus Pro?


I definitely prefer the Fokus more.  I sold off the ZE3000.  I was a little disappointed by them.  Sound was great, but that was it.  Fokus are just gorgeous in comparison.  Fit, finish, soundstage, app.  Supposedly, there is an app coming for the Finals, but it was MIA when I had them even though they advertised it on the box .  The sound clarity, instrument separation and stage was great on the ZE, but I prefer the Fokus.  Also, the fit, blah.  The sharp edges on the ZE3000 didn't agree with my ears.


----------



## scubaphish

erockg said:


> Blah, I kinda figured.  I have a Best Buy gift card burning a hole in my pocket and considered taking another shot.  Oh well.


I’d love for you to do it, if for no other (selfish) reason than to hear your thoughts in comparison to Fokus just on sound.


----------



## jant71

erockg said:


> Blah, I kinda figured.  I have a Best Buy gift card burning a hole in my pocket and considered taking another shot.  Oh well.


They carry JVC and figure they would be getting the FW1000T in. Maybe that is a possible route.


----------



## Ceeluh7

erockg said:


> I definitely prefer the Fokus more.  I sold off the ZE3000.  I was a little disappointed by them.  Sound was great, but that was it.  Fokus are just gorgeous in comparison.  Fit, finish, soundstage, app.  Supposedly, there is an app coming for the Finals, but it was MIA when I had them even though they advertised it on the box .  The sound clarity, instrument separation and stage was great on the ZE, but I prefer the Fokus.  Also, the fit, blah.  The sharp edges on the ZE3000 didn't agree with my ears.


Hey man, how was the low end on the ze3000? Also, was it a very warm sounding set? Just wondering if it carries that final audio tonality. I'm still thinking of picking a pair up.... Maybe


----------



## mtl171

cresny said:


> The comfobuds are just ok. For me the NC is below the Soundcore Liberty Air Pro, and those below the Gemini.  To make matters worse, they do not default to noise canceling and  for some reason, the touch controls do not always work for me from a non-phone device.


Thanks for the tip. Lack of touch controls is definitely a bit concerning. Shame the noise canceling doesn’t work too well irl.


----------



## Devodonaldson

tinyman392 said:


> I found them to be quite bright IMO.  They reminded me of an Etymotic ER4SR (not XR) with a subtle bass boost and slightly hotter treble.  I tend to listen to 256 AAC with my iPhone.  Wired or wireless it ends up being encoded into the same codec.


I'm using Spiral dots tips. Less treble detail than my Solaris, bot lacking in bass, and hits nice on tracks with strong bass emphasis. Interesting how different we describe the audio presentation. I demo at Canjam after reading they lacked bass, and found myself pleasantly surprised. Modern hip hop, r&b, and jazz with strong bass didn't lack for me.


----------



## erockg

jant71 said:


> They carry JVC and figure they would be getting the FW1000T in. Maybe that is a possible route.


I checked.  Nada.  Doesn't seem like BB is carrying many new TWS lately.  The stores by me seem to be sparse or shutting down.  So sad.  

That new JVC was oos on Amazon today too.


----------



## BooleanBones

erockg said:


> I checked.  Nada.  Doesn't seem like BB is carrying many new TWS lately.  The stores by me seem to be sparse or shutting down.  So sad.
> 
> That new JVC was oos on Amazon today too.


Do you have a BB Magnolia store near you? A little more interesting options in those I have noticed.


----------



## erockg

Ceeluh7 said:


> Hey man, how was the low end on the ze3000? Also, was it a very warm sounding set? Just wondering if it carries that final audio tonality. I'm still thinking of picking a pair up.... Maybe


They had low end.  But nothing compared to the Fokus.  I mean, I thought they were average, man.  Honestly, I was excited at first but for $150 there was other stuff I'd rather spend on.  I didn't feel they were as warm as the Fokus can get.  They felt cheap to me.  Granted, $150, but Jabra and Sennheiser in that range felt better.  Just my opinion.  They are no frills.  No features.  They do have volume controls which was nice.  I'd say the Grado and KEF buds are much nicer.  Trying to think of others in that range.  

Curious how these are:  https://audio46.com/products/kinera...ireless-in-ear-monitor?variant=42327447634153. Not a huge fan of stalks but Kinera make some great IEMs I've heard.


----------



## erockg

BooleanBones said:


> Do you have a BB Magnolia store near you? A little more interesting options in those I have noticed.


Yeah, but nothing good at the B&M.  They used to carry B&O, B&W etc., but nowadays here in LA, it's all online for BB.


----------



## erockg

scubaphish said:


> I’d love for you to do it, if for no other (selfish) reason than to hear your thoughts in comparison to Fokus just on sound.


You truly are an evil human.  It might just happen!  Off memory, I do prefer the Fokus.  If I do revisit, I'll do a critical listen.


----------



## Not so fat head

Lol 😂 
I think the moderator of this board has given up trying to keep folks on topic, which is TWS…


----------



## erockg

I don't know.  I'm one of the few that enjoy the thread for what it is.  The header at the top is wrong.  Fully wireless IEM?  It's a broad title IMO.  More like - Truly Wireless IEMs.  Whether it's an IEM with an adapter or TWS buds, I'm here.  If I need to Search, I search.  I do it all the time.  Most of the regulars know what the end game buds are at this point - There is and never will be an end game.  Also, most folks on this thread reply to anyone and everyone who asks a question.  We're all here to help one another, in what little ways we can.  That's the fun.  So, you can split hairs and say, and IEM with an adapter isn't a TWS, or this should be a TWS buds only thread, but I respectfully disagree.  It's truly wireless, fully wireless IEM, whatever thread.  Don't get me wrong, I completely get what some of you are saying.  I'm just easy.  Easy like Su-  Yeah, I'll stop.


----------



## Not so fat head

Speaking of, I work close to a Marshals store that always has a good selection of cheap (under $50) TWS headphones..
I’ve probably bought at least 15 over the last 2 years; I know, that’s nothing compared to others on this board.  In fact, so cheap I don’t even bother to take them back..
All have on thing in common, they’re not really very good.  I’m more interested in how can they make them so cheap. Each has a Bluetooth chip, battery, battery charge circuitry, D/A, some sort of DSP.  Most likely 3 batteries (one each for the bus, and one for the charging case).  Don’t forget the drivers…
Maybe they intended to sell them at a higher price, and this is just to get something back money wise…
I do have fun with them…

The best all around were the Bose sound sports Free’s, I have two, but these were $99 each….

I like them better than my QC earbuds, M and D 07’s and Sony XM3’s…

And no, these were not under $50..
More in the above $150..


----------



## Tommy C

Not so fat head said:


> Yep, we need a separate blog for the adapters.  Since the adapters have far more real estate, with which to cram batteries, chips, amplifiers..etc.., they’ll probably be the first to hit true high fi..
> *But one needs to be a little crazy to wear large dongles behind their ears*.. 😃
> I remember people beating up Bose for their Sound Sports Free TWS because of the size (which are excellent headphones btw).  The adapter route will never be a big market…


Famous last words... That's what I thought about the Shure TW2 but they are slick, smaller than they look in photos and work very well.
My favorite TWS nowadays.


----------



## Ceeluh7

erockg said:


> I don't know.  I'm one of the few that enjoy the thread for what it is.  The header at the top is wrong.  Fully wireless IEM?  It's a broad title IMO.  More like - Truly Wireless IEMs.  Whether it's an IEM with an adapter or TWS buds, I'm here.  If I need to Search, I search.  I do it all the time.  Most of the regulars know what the end game buds are at this point - There is and never will be an end game.  Also, most folks on this thread reply to anyone and everyone who asks a question.  We're all here to help one another, in what little ways we can.  That's the fun.  So, you can split hairs and say, and IEM with an adapter isn't a TWS, or this should be a TWS buds only thread, but I respectfully disagree.  It's truly wireless, fully wireless IEM, whatever thread.  Don't get me wrong, I completely get what some of you are saying.  I'm just easy.  Easy like Su-  Yeah, I'll stop.


I can agree with this as well. I am newer to the group and reply alot to the adapter stuff and didn't want anyone getting pissed off and annoyed. To me I like having an all encompassing wireless place. Like I said I didn't want anyone getting annoyed. I can easily navigate between the topics and don't have an issue, just didn't want to be a bother. However I understand why some would want an all tws thread to keep it more simple and on the point that they come here for. I do think changing the thread to "wireless" would be easier to digest. Anyways, nice post man, this too is a valid point


----------



## Ceeluh7

Not so fat head said:


> Speaking of, I work close to a Marshals store that always has a good selection of cheap (under $50) TWS headphones..
> I’ve probably bought at least 15 over the last 2 years; I know, that’s nothing compared to others on this board.  In fact, so cheap I don’t even bother to take them back..
> All have on thing in common, they’re not really very good.  I’m more interested in how can they make them so cheap. Each has a Bluetooth chip, battery, battery charge circuitry, D/A, some sort of DSP.  Most likely 3 batteries (one each for the bus, and one for the charging case).  Don’t forget the drivers…
> Maybe they intended to sell them at a higher price, and this is just to get something back money wise…
> ...


Dude... I buy cheap audio gear ALL THE TIME. I am always searching for the diamond in the rough. I buy cheap iems like a crazy person as well as cheap tws... Lol. I just figure nobody on here would give two craps about any of them. Anyways, I'm interested, I like lesser expensive things which punch above their pric tag.


----------



## Not so fat head

Oh, I’m not pissed, it’s all good…
Technology is moving faster than I can keep up…
As I said, the dongle only makes sense if they can truly us the large dongles to cram in high end components that otherwise wouldn’t fit in the in ears.


----------



## erockg

Not so fat head said:


> Oh, I’m not pissed, it’s all good…
> Technology is moving faster than I can keep up…
> As I said, the dongle only makes sense if they can truly us the large dongles to cram in high end components that otherwise wouldn’t fit in the in ears.


For sure, no one is angry here.  Font is always flat.  We're all just spending too much and having fun.


----------



## Not so fat head

Ya gotta give people a reason to pull out their wallet….  Yep, a really highend dongle might do it..
Put in large batteries to offset the current drain for precision DAC’s, OP amps and excellent drivers…
Now we’re talking…


----------



## msooffutt (Jan 20, 2022)

After doing a reset on my noble fokus pros, I’ve decide I must have a bad unit.  They were an out of box purchase, so maybe that’s why.  No one else seems to have connection issues.  I contacted Noble and they told me that they have a version coming out, in a month, for the Japanese market, that has a better radio designed for city interference and that I might want to trade up for those.   Normally I would want to just send them back and not take a chance that it’s a design flaw, but these things sound so good, I think I might just take him up on his offer.  I’m guessing all of you with fokus pros are still having good connections to the right speaker?


----------



## erockg

msooffutt said:


> After doing a reset on my noble fokus pros, I’ve decide I must have a bad unit.  They were an out of box purchase, so maybe that’s why.  No one else seems to have connection issues.  I contacted Noble and they told me that they have a version coming out, in a month, for the Japanese market, that has a better radio designed for city interference and that I might want to trade up for those.   Normally I would want to just send them back, and not take a chance that it’s a design flaw, but these things sound so good, I think I might just take him up on his offer.  I’m guessing all of you with fokus pros are still having good connections to the right speaker?


Ahhh the internet.  I hate it.  Falcon ANC:  https://fccid.io/2AT8X-FALCONANC/External-Photos/External-photos-5607519

I beat you @jant71.  I BEAT YOU!!!


----------



## Ceeluh7

erockg said:


> Ahhh the internet.  I hate it.  Falcon ANC:  https://fccid.io/2AT8X-FALCONANC/External-Photos/External-photos-5607519
> 
> I beat you @jant71.  I BEAT YOU!!!


Wth! This must be a rough rough draft


----------



## Ceeluh7

erockg said:


> Ahhh the internet.  I hate it.  Falcon ANC:  https://fccid.io/2AT8X-FALCONANC/External-Photos/External-photos-5607519
> 
> I beat you @jant71.  I BEAT YOU!!!


Looks like the same housing as the Tronsmart Onyx prime


----------



## msooffutt

erockg said:


> Ahhh the internet.  I hate it.  Falcon ANC:  https://fccid.io/2AT8X-FALCONANC/External-Photos/External-photos-5607519
> 
> I beat you @jant71.  I BEAT YOU!!!


Oh wow, thanks for the heads up.  Now I have more thinking to do! I wonder how long until they are ready to sell?


----------



## erockg

Ceeluh7 said:


> Wth! This must be a rough rough draft


Thought the same thing.  Also, the case looks like they may have repurposed the Falcon Pro case.  Hmmm.


----------



## erockg

Ceeluh7 said:


> Looks like the same housing as the Tronsmart Onyx prime


Another one of those repurposed shells.  Ugh.  Not into the fit of these at all.


----------



## Not so fat head

Probably one of the things that has surprised me the most over the last several years, is how much I really enjoy the Bose Sound Sports Free…. You might need to go through a couple to find a flawless one, but worth the effort.
I have two orange pairs, which have copyrights of 2019; I think they were the final editions.. 
I have APM’s, Focals, Stax, highend Denons and many others;  I’ve been collecting for 30 + years…. Will go a little crazy sometimes, then back off…

Yep, the Bose really surprised me..  they do sound better than the QC’s, but that can be expected, as there isn’t any ANC.
QC are much better in a noisy environment, and can save your hearing, with lower volume.


----------



## Not so fat head

I just searched the Falcon pro’s..
They look interesting…. Also looks like some pretty deep stems.
Maybe just the pic..


----------



## Ceeluh7

erockg said:


> Another one of those repurposed shells.  Ugh.  Not into the fit of these at all.


I didn't like the onyx prime fit. It didn't hug my ear no matter the tips I used. It looks as though they are most certainly using the same shells. Ya know with the onyx prime I just never felt like they were stable in the ear. They could get a good seal and weren't heavy at all but it is just an odd fitting. Maybe if they supply some wings it'll help, and not like the crappy ones that the prime came with. This also appears to be a single DD unit, which isn't a bad thing as these may just be another iteration of the falcon and falcon 2


----------



## jant71 (Jan 20, 2022)

erockg said:


> Ahhh the internet.  I hate it.  Falcon ANC:  https://fccid.io/2AT8X-FALCONANC/External-Photos/External-photos-5607519
> 
> I beat you @jant71.  I BEAT YOU!!!


Well after your love of the FoKuS fit and looks how could I show you that.🤥 Nice find!


----------



## Phaethon

erockg said:


> They had low end.  But nothing compared to the Fokus.  I mean, I thought they were average, man.  Honestly, I was excited at first but for $150 there was other stuff I'd rather spend on.  I didn't feel they were as warm as the Fokus can get.  They felt cheap to me.  Granted, $150, but Jabra and Sennheiser in that range felt better.  Just my opinion.  They are no frills.  No features.  They do have volume controls which was nice.  I'd say the Grado and KEF buds are much nicer.  Trying to think of others in that range.
> 
> Curious how these are:  https://audio46.com/products/kinera...ireless-in-ear-monitor?variant=42327447634153. Not a huge fan of stalks but Kinera make some great IEMs I've heard.


I really like them. They have a warm signature with clean bass and no piercing highs. They weigh next to nothing and are super comfortable. I can’t really think of a good TWS comp. To me the sound is a lot like the Bose with the popping bass I wish the Bose had.


----------



## Ceeluh7 (Jan 20, 2022)

Phaethon said:


> I really like them. They have a warm signature with clean bass and no piercing highs. They weigh next to nothing and are super comfortable. I can’t really think of a good TWS comp. To me the sound is a lot like the Bose with the popping bass I wish the Bose had.


You are referring to the kinera set, I was asking about the final audio ze3000. So you like the kineras? They make some nice iems

Edit.... Nevermind, I saw where he was asking about the kineras... I am very curious about them as well


----------



## erockg

Phaethon said:


> I really like them. They have a warm signature with clean bass and no piercing highs. They weigh next to nothing and are super comfortable. I can’t really think of a good TWS comp. To me the sound is a lot like the Bose with the popping bass I wish the Bose had.


Cool.  Thanks for the input.  How is the ANC?


----------



## SynaestheticA

Caipirina said:


> How are they different from the previous model? I kept circling the minis for a long time but could not get myself to buy them. Thinking about some other Japan only models, like Aviot


Hey sorry for the late reply.

After some consideration and a decent amount of use, I think the N6 Mini (Original) might be my preferred sound. Literally, the only very minuscule difference I can really pick up on is the bass hitting harder in the mid-bass section rather than the lower bass/sub-bass section of tracks. Apparently, there is a loss of sound stage but an increase in detail with the SE2 but I haven't really noticed.

My thoughts are that Nuarl nails the soundstage and any loss of that is kind of detriment to the experience.  But like I said, I haven't noticed. Maybe there are _some_ details that are more forward with the SE2

My thoughts on the bass situation (Which is noticeable when really straining your ears to find a difference and testing them side by side) are that Sub-Bass is just better than mid-bass. Mid-bass is cool and all, but I feel the lower end of the bass spectrum is more important to people and it is to me.

I might also say that the original Mini is warmer which might also contribute to the harder-hitting sub-bass.

Overall I'm glad I have them and despite everything I've suggested to the contrary, they are my most used TWS at the moment. The N6 Mini range is the most comfortable buds I have and are super convenient and so nice looking.

I have the blue and love the colour. So safe to say I'm glad I still have these. My plan was to give one of them to my wife, but she hasn't noticed that I have 2 pairs yet and I can't bring myself to part with either rn.


----------



## Ceeluh7

SynaestheticA said:


> Hey sorry for the late reply.
> 
> After some consideration and a decent amount of use, I think the N6 Mini (Original) might be my preferred sound. Literally, the only very minuscule difference I can really pick up on is the bass hitting harder in the mid-bass section rather than the lower bass/sub-bass section of tracks. Apparently, there is a loss of sound stage but an increase in detail with the SE2 but I haven't really noticed.
> 
> ...


Have you tried any other nuarl.... N6 pro 2, n10 plus? I keep passing on the mini 2se on Amazon but I read some reviews that pretty much praise all nuarl sets... Curious


----------



## Phaethon

Ceeluh7 said:


> You are referring to the kinera set, I was asking about the final audio ze3000. So you like the kineras? They make some nice iems


I may have mis-done it but I was responding to erockg’s comment about “curiosity “ and link to audio46’ page on the Kineras! I only have the Kinera TWS. I never see the Kinera IEMs on anyone’s “best of” list and that has kept me from just ordering some!


----------



## erockg

Phaethon said:


> I may have mis-done it but I was responding to erockg’s comment about “curiosity “ and link to audio46’ page on the Kineras! I only have the Kinera TWS. I never see the Kinera IEMs on anyone’s “best of” list and that has kept me from just ordering some!


The Kinera Nanna 2.0 IEMs are highly regarded.  They're on my list!


----------



## Ceeluh7

Phaethon said:


> I may have mis-done it but I was responding to erockg’s comment about “curiosity “ and link to audio46’ page on the Kineras! I only have the Kinera TWS. I never see the Kinera IEMs on anyone’s “best of” list and that has kept me from just ordering some!


No sorry man, I didn't see where he was asking about the kineras. I actually was wondering about them as well. I don't normally like stem style as much but I figured it's kinera.. It should be good. Also yes kineras iems are great from their budget sets to their high end iems... Real nice.


----------



## Phaethon

erockg said:


> Cool.  Thanks for the input.  How is the ANC?


Darned if I know! Everything that I’ve found about it is Chinese including Kineras webpage! I have spent a lot more time playing with the Fokus Pros and not enough time mashing buttons on the Kineras!


----------



## erockg

Phaethon said:


> Darned if I know! Everything that I’ve found about it is Chinese including Kineras webpage! I have spent a lot more time playing with the Fokus Pros and not enough time mashing buttons on the Kineras!


Within this review, they talk of how to activate everything!  khttps://majorhifi.com/kinera-yh802-true-wireless-review/


----------



## SynaestheticA

Ceeluh7 said:


> Have you tried any other nuarl.... N6 pro 2, n10 plus? I keep passing on the mini 2se on Amazon but I read some reviews that pretty much praise all nuarl sets... Curious


Yea I have the N6Pro2, the Mini, the Mini SE2 & the N10 Pro. I did a big write up of the N6 Pro 2 if you're interested but the TL;DR of it all is that I love them and am super impressed.

I just came back from a holiday in Sweden (From Australia (30 hours flying)) and found myself using the Pro 2 and Mini over my Audio Technica ATH-MSR7B. 

The only one I wouldn't straight up recommend is the N10 Pro and that's only because I think the N6 Pro 2 is better and looks cooler. But other people have told me they love them.

Honestly if you're looking to pull the trigger I'd say get which ever you think will give you better functionality or pick the ones that look the coolest


----------



## Ceeluh7

SynaestheticA said:


> Yea I have the N6Pro2, the Mini, the Mini SE2 & the N10 Pro. I did a big write up of the N6 Pro 2 if you're interested but the TL;DR of it all is that I love them and am super impressed.
> 
> I just came back from a holiday in Sweden (From Australia (30 hours flying)) and found myself using the Pro 2 and Mini over my Audio Technica ATH-MSR7B.
> 
> ...


Ha... I was looking mostly at the mini 2se just because of how they looked. The n6 pro 2 look rather large outside the ear though I haven't seen them other than reviews. It seems the only reviews on nuarl sets are primarily of the N6 pro 2 unless I use the translator and read some reviews. Anyways I read the mini 2se have ( i could be wrong) the v3 driver, or maybe the v5, can't remember exactly, at any rate I was wondering if there is really a difference between versions? They look really nice and seem (Nuarl) to carry a house sound between them all. Nothing but praise is anything I've read about anything nuarl


----------



## Phaethon

erockg said:


> Within this review, they talk of how to activate everything!  khttps://majorhifi.com/kinera-yh802-true-wireless-review/


That’s awesome! Thanks!


----------



## SynaestheticA

Ceeluh7 said:


> Ha... I was looking mostly at the mini 2se just because of how they looked. The n6 pro 2 look rather large outside the ear though I haven't seen them other than reviews. It seems the only reviews on nuarl sets are primarily of the N6 pro 2 unless I use the translator and read some reviews. Anyways I read the mini 2se have ( i could be wrong) the v3 driver, or maybe the v5, can't remember exactly, at any rate I was wondering if there is really a difference between versions? They look really nice and seem (Nuarl) to carry a house sound between them all. Nothing but praise is anything I've read about anything nuarl


Yea I am exactly the same regarding the colour. I was not in need of new TWS and have not even been thinking about getting new ones until I saw the new colours for the 2SE.

Honestly, there isn't a huge difference between the sound (Almost none). Also as for the fit, if you don't use big spinfit tips or anything to large they fit super snuggly in your ear and are actually comfortable, I put a bigger pair of spinfits in the original Mini's and they hang in my ear by the tip, on the 2SE I used better sized buds and they fit perfectly in my ear-bits. Neither fall out while running.

The Pro 2 does stick out more *and *while the soundstage is much wider on the Pro 2, I think the Mini probably has a lot more conveniences to make it the better option.

Regarding the driver, it looks like they are using the upgraded nano-tube technology they put into the N6 Pro 2 to fix the bass complaints they were getting from the original N6 Pro. Either way, bass is absolutely fine and very nice.


----------



## Ceeluh7

SynaestheticA said:


> Yea I am exactly the same regarding the colour. I was not in need of new TWS and have not even been thinking about getting new ones until I saw the new colours for the 2SE.
> 
> Honestly, there isn't a huge difference between the sound (Almost none). Also as for the fit, if you don't use big spinfit tips or anything to large they fit super snuggly in your ear and are actually comfortable, I put a bigger pair of spinfits in the original Mini's and they hang in my ear by the tip, on the 2SE I used better sized buds and they fit perfectly in my ear-bits. Neither fall out while running.
> 
> ...


Wow, this was very helpful. I was looking for someone who has spent some time with them... Thank you very much


----------



## erockg

Phaethon said:


> That’s awesome! Thanks!


My possible purchase is riding on you now.  Good luck!


----------



## Xinlisupreme

erockg said:


> You truly are an evil human.  It might just happen!  Off memory, I do prefer the Fokus.  If I do revisit, I'll do a critical listen.


How is Fokus with Rock and EDM?


----------



## FullCircle

msooffutt said:


> That’s the same experience I had indoors, but outside and actively moving around a lot, it was pretty bad.  What I was doing was moving tree limbs out of the yard.  Took about a half hour and the right bud cut in and out the entire time.



Odds are very high you are right handed.

So what does that have to do with anything?

Audiologist see this a lot in the world of hearing aids. What happens when a right handed person bends over to tie their shoe, pick up an object etc, they rotate their neck towards the right shoulder as the right arm is being extended.

In the world of hearing aids, the microphone gets covered up & there is a rustling sound etc.  In the world of tws, under the same scenereo, the right shoulder is essentially covering up the antenna and this can lead to brief cut outs.


----------



## HaliHarry

Xinlisupreme said:


> How is Fokus with Rock and EDM?


That's perfect. Warm, deep, impact and good speed bass


----------



## Xinlisupreme

Fokus pro cost 130$ more than XM4, dunno if I’m going to pay it for it


----------



## Ceeluh7

Xinlisupreme said:


> Fokus pro cost 130$ more than XM4, dunno if I’m going to pay it for it


That is quite alot to throw down on a set of tws. However the feedback from this group has been so very positive about them. I am debating about picking them up as well.


----------



## Xinlisupreme

Ceeluh7 said:


> That is quite alot to throw down on a set of tws. However the feedback from this group has been so very positive about them. I am debating about picking them up as well.


You mean Fokus Pro?


----------



## Ceeluh7

Xinlisupreme said:


> You mean Fokus Pro?


Yes


----------



## Devodonaldson

Xinlisupreme said:


> Fokus pro cost 130$ more than XM4, dunno if I’m going to pay it for it


I have both. Fokus Pro definitely has more treble extension, which makes sense with hybrid configuration. Sony is good. New update added treble extension to my ears. If using for all purposes,  Sony can handle more situations. I honestly love both, and plan to use the Sony for my workout iem now. I've loved Sony for the 4 months that I've had it though. Fokus Pro, XM4, Falcon Pro are 3 of my faves in that order. Falcon Pro when I want to hear more detail in instruments and treble, but the other two I absolutely like over the Falcon Pro


----------



## Ceeluh7

Devodonaldson said:


> I have both. Fokus Pro definitely has more treble extension, which makes sense with hybrid configuration. Sony is good. New update added treble extension to my ears. If using for all purposes,  Sony can handle more situations. I honestly love both, and plan to use the Sony for my workout iem now. I've loved Sony for the 4 months that I've had it though. Fokus Pro, XM4, Falcon Pro are 3 of my faves in that order. Falcon Pro when I want to hear more detail in instruments and treble, but the other two I absolutely like over the Falcon Pro


Everything is subjective in this hobby but that sounds like a good list.


----------



## FullCircle

Devodonaldson said:


> I have both. Fokus Pro definitely has more treble extension, which makes sense with hybrid configuration. Sony is good. New update added treble extension to my ears. If using for all purposes,  Sony can handle more situations. I honestly love both, and plan to use the Sony for my workout iem now. I've loved Sony for the 4 months that I've had it though. Fokus Pro, XM4, Falcon Pro are 3 of my faves in that order. Falcon Pro when I want to hear more detail in instruments and treble, but the other two I absolutely like over the Falcon Pro



It's an amazing thing to rub shoulders with Sony.

Reminds me of an occurrence that happened maybe 10 years ago.

There was an audio show, and during the show, a JH Audio product was stolen along with a Noble K10.

I wasn't upset about the stolen K10, I was more surprised the K10 was deemed worthy enough to steel, right along with a JH product.


----------



## Xinlisupreme

Devodonaldson said:


> I have both. Fokus Pro definitely has more treble extension, which makes sense with hybrid configuration. Sony is good. New update added treble extension to my ears. If using for all purposes,  Sony can handle more situations. I honestly love both, and plan to use the Sony for my workout iem now. I've loved Sony for the 4 months that I've had it though. Fokus Pro, XM4, Falcon Pro are 3 of my faves in that order. Falcon Pro when I want to hear more detail in instruments and treble, but the other two I absolutely like over the Falcon Pro


Maybe XM4 is warmer more L than Fokus that should be more on reference side, right?


----------



## erockg

Xinlisupreme said:


> Maybe XM4 is warmer more L than Fokus that should be more on reference side, right?


I definitely thought the XM4s were warmer and I actually let mine go in favor of the Fokus.  Not sure if I’d call the Fokus more reference, but the imaging, soundstage and design alone is just wonderful.  Most here know I highly recommend them.  They’re my #1 TWS for sound right now.


----------



## msooffutt (Jan 21, 2022)

FullCircle said:


> Odds are very high you are right handed.
> 
> So what does that have to do with anything?
> 
> ...





FullCircle said:


> Odds are very high you are right handed.
> 
> So what does that have to do with anything?
> 
> ...



What you’re saying definitely goes along with what I’ve been seeing in my little experiments.  But I have to say, I really hope that I just have a bad unit, because the pair I have are very very sensitive to interference.  The right side cuts out a lot unless I’m just sitting still.  I’ve own a fair amount of true wireless and I wear them all day long at work, and the only one that cut in and out a lot like these were the original Sony wf1000x.  The other issue, that I didn’t mention earlier, is the right speaker doesn’t always connect when I first pull them out of the case and put them in my ear.  After I put them back in the case and then try again, they work.  These were an open box purchase, so that might point to these being a bad unit.  I hope that is the case, because I love everything else about them.


----------



## FullCircle

msooffutt said:


> What you’re saying definitely goes along with what I’ve been seeing in my little experiments.  But I have to say, I really hope that I just have a bad unit, because the pair I have are very very sensitive to interference.  The right side cuts out a lot unless I’m just sitting still.  I’ve own a fair amount of true wireless and I wear them all day long at work, and the only one that cut in and out a lot like these were the original Sony wf1000x.  The other issue, that I didn’t mention earlier, is the right speaker doesn’t always connect when I first pull them out of the case and put them in my ear.  After I put them back in the case and then try again, they work.  These were an out of box purchase, so that might point to these being a bad unit.  I hope that is the case, because I love everything else about them.


Buying open box is always something to be nervous about.

I'd look into a replacement set, assuming you purchased them through an authorized source.


----------



## msooffutt

FullCircle said:


> Buying open box is always something to be nervous about.
> 
> I'd look into a replacement set, assuming you purchased them through an authorized source.


I bought them from audio46.  I’ve been talking to Jim through email and I think that’s what I’m going to do.  Thanks for answering back.


----------



## BooleanBones

msooffutt said:


> What you’re saying definitely goes along with what I’ve been seeing in my little experiments.  But I have to say, I really hope that I just have a bad unit, because the pair I have are very very sensitive to interference.  The right side cuts out a lot unless I’m just sitting still.  I’ve own a fair amount of true wireless and I wear them all day long at work, and the only one that cut in and out a lot like these were the original Sony wf1000x.  The other issue, that I didn’t mention earlier, is the right speaker doesn’t always connect when I first pull them out of the case and put them in my ear.  After I put them back in the case and then try again, they work.  These were an open box purchase, so that might point to these being a bad unit.  I hope that is the case, because I love everything else about them.


What do you have them paired with? You may have said already and I missed it.


----------



## erockg

msooffutt said:


> What you’re saying definitely goes along with what I’ve been seeing in my little experiments.  But I have to say, I really hope that I just have a bad unit, because the pair I have are very very sensitive to interference.  The right side cuts out a lot unless I’m just sitting still.  I’ve own a fair amount of true wireless and I wear them all day long at work, and the only one that cut in and out a lot like these were the original Sony wf1000x.  The other issue, that I didn’t mention earlier, is the right speaker doesn’t always connect when I first pull them out of the case and put them in my ear.  After I put them back in the case and then try again, they work.  These were an open box purchase, so that might point to these being a bad unit.  I hope that is the case, because I love everything else about them.


I would say sometimes it happens, but I don’t completely agree that every time I tie my shoes I’m blocking a signal. 🤣

I agree with you, it sounds like you have a bad unit. You are experiencing far worse issues than a lot of us who have the same buds.


----------



## msooffutt

BooleanBones said:


> What do you have them paired with? You may have said already and I missed it.


I have them paired with an iPhone 13 pro max.


----------



## Ceeluh7

So a recent review of the UTWS5 here on Head-Fi states that the utws5... As if today... Has an upgrade of the Fiio control app which added ambient mode. I can tell you that I did not recieve the update yet but knowing that it's out there is very cool. I don't know if he meant the actual app itself or the adapters or both... Time will tell and I'll keep checking. 

BTW... The comment reffering to the update was in the comments section


----------



## erockg

Ceeluh7 said:


> So a recent review of the UTWS5 here on Head-Fi states that the utws5... As if today... Has an upgrade of the Fiio control app which added ambient mode. I can tell you that I did not recieve the update yet but knowing that it's out there is very cool. I don't know if he meant the actual app itself or the adapters or both... Time will tell and I'll keep checking.


No update here.


----------



## Phaethon

Ceeluh7 said:


> So a recent review of the UTWS5 here on Head-Fi states that the utws5... As if today... Has an upgrade of the Fiio control app which added ambient mode. I can tell you that I did not recieve the update yet but knowing that it's out there is very cool. I don't know if he meant the actual app itself or the adapters or both... Time will tell and I'll keep checking.
> 
> BTW... The comment reffering to the update was in the comments section


Please do! I just installed the app on the DX300 yesterday and it was the same old app


----------



## Ceeluh7

Phaethon said:


> Please do! I just installed the app on the DX300 yesterday and it was the same old app


Ya I'll check, you know how updates roll out. We shall see, who knows maybe fiio listened to some of the criticism that is out there. I'm not holding my breath, but also I don't have any complaints at all. Hopefully it is at least a halfway usable ambient mode


----------



## rhsauer

Did anyone else find that the recent firmware update to the Soundcore Liberty 3 Pro reduced the treble harshness?  I found that after applying the update I no longer needed a custom EQ that looked a lot like a ski slope.  I'm using the Soundcore default EQ ATM.


----------



## Tommy C

jant71 said:


> Well after your love of the FoKuS fit and looks how could I show you that.🤥 Nice find!



Those are some nasty looking TWS but yeah, I'm sure it's a rough draft... Hopefully.


----------



## Ceeluh7

rhsauer said:


> Did anyone else find that the recent firmware update to the Soundcore Liberty 3 Pro reduced the treble harshness?  I found that after applying the update I no longer needed a custom EQ that looked a lot like a ski slope.  I'm using the Soundcore default EQ ATM.


Really. The Tinny/metallic weird highs are gone? I liked alot the rest of the spectrum on the 3 pro's. I wonder if others are seeing the same thing.


----------



## Phaethon

erockg said:


> My possible purchase is riding on you now.  Good luck!


If there is ANC it’s that subtle and faintly perceptible sort that might be described as non-existent. I would not make my buying based on promotional materials emphasizing ANC. Heck even mention of it by Kinera could be an instance of false advertising. But it does have a sweet and pleasing signature.


----------



## regancipher

Just finished penning my review on the SoundPEATS H2.....sound is excellent. These budget buds are really catching up.


----------



## Phaethon

I’ve really had a wonderful time listening to acid jazz and funk on my Ikko OH10s on my UTWS5s and I’m looking for a comparable IEM. I guess I’m looking for bass quality and quantity with crispy treble. I like separation but don’t prioritize sound stage. Ideas?


----------



## Xinlisupreme

Phaethon said:


> I’ve really had a wonderful time listening to acid jazz and funk on my Ikko OH10s on my UTWS5s and I’m looking for a comparable IEM. I guess I’m looking for bass quality and quantity with crispy treble. I like separation but don’t prioritize sound stage. Ideas?


I own OH10 also but I don’t listen it since 2 years😩 maybe I’ll keep for next session.
Im interested on TWS, does XM4 worth a try for 195€? Or better to wait and buy Fokus pro?


----------



## Ceeluh7

Phaethon said:


> I’ve really had a wonderful time listening to acid jazz and funk on my Ikko OH10s on my UTWS5s and I’m looking for a comparable IEM. I guess I’m looking for bass quality and quantity with crispy treble. I like separation but don’t prioritize sound stage. Ideas?


Same price point... 150ish to 250?


----------



## Tommy C

Xinlisupreme said:


> I own OH10 also but I don’t listen it since 2 years😩 maybe I’ll keep for next session.
> Im interested on TWS, does XM4 worth a try for 195€? Or better to wait and buy Fokus pro?


They are kind of apples and oranges. The Sony is feature-rich and the Noble is strictly for music. No ANC, ambient mode and such.


----------



## rhsauer

Ceeluh7 said:


> Really. The Tinny/metallic weird highs are gone? I liked alot the rest of the spectrum on the 3 pro's. I wonder if others are seeing the same thing.


They’re gone — to my ears, anyway.  I’m not sure if it was the L3P firmware update or if there was some burn in over time.  I switched to the 3D EQ setting and it’s actually very nice.  I had not liked that setting at all when I first got the earphones.


----------



## Phaethon

Xinlisupreme said:


> I own OH10 also but I don’t listen it since 2 years😩 maybe I’ll keep for next session.
> Im interested on TWS, does XM4 worth a try for 195€? Or better to wait and buy Fokus pro?


I’ve kept both. The Sonys for the ANC, ambient and the cool talk-through feature. The Fokus when I just want to listen and no need for features


----------



## BooleanBones

Xinlisupreme said:


> Im interested on TWS, does XM4 worth a try for 195€? Or better to wait and buy Fokus pro?


What would be the common uses of them? My XM4s (and AZ60s) go out and about and fit my utility needs (calls, ANC, music, etc) where as the Fokus I only use for music.


----------



## Ceeluh7

rhsauer said:


> They’re gone — to my ears, anyway.  I’m not sure if it was the L3P firmware update or if there was some burn in over time.  I switched to the 3D EQ setting and it’s actually very nice.  I had not liked that setting at all when I first got the earphones.


That is true, it could be burn in, or, in your case listen in. I almost re purchased them earlier but gained a hint of self control... I'll be a grown one of these days... Today I got a little bit closer to that... Lol.


----------



## Phaethon

Ceeluh7 said:


> Same price point... 150ish to 250?


For the right sound I would go 400 or 500


----------



## Ceeluh7

BooleanBones said:


> What would be the common uses of them? My XM4s (and AZ60s) go out and about and fit my utility needs (calls, ANC, music, etc) where as the Fokus I only use for music.


You guys and your fokus pros... Ugh... I want them. If I could only save money past a few days


----------



## Ceeluh7

Phaethon said:


> For the right sound I would go 400 or 500


I'll think about that, won't be till later though, I'm sure of few of these guys have some you could try. In that range there is a slew of nice iems. Maybe look for best under 500 lists or videos


----------



## Xinlisupreme

Thank you guys!


----------



## erockg

BooleanBones said:


> What would be the common uses of them? My XM4s (and AZ60s) go out and about and fit my utility needs (calls, ANC, music, etc) where as the Fokus I only use for music.


So the Fokus help you focus... on music?  Imagine that.


----------



## erockg

Incoming!!!  ahttps://www.libratone.com/us/products/headphones/airplus-2nd-gen/


----------



## Ceeluh7

Phaethon said:


> For the right sound I would go 400 or 500


Real quick while I have a moment... Check out the Fiio fh7, moondrop variations, fearless s8, thieaudio oracle, Tanchjim Oxygen, Fiio Fd7... That's a good start.... OK my wife is going to punch me.. Lol. Oh where are you planning on purchasing these sets? Amazon obv would be quickest if you are in the States but not all are going to be available.... I don't think. Ali express takes 27 years to get to you if you are in the States as well. Just wondering.


----------



## erockg

Ceeluh7 said:


> You guys and your fokus pros... Ugh... I want them. If I could only save money past a few days


Audio46 has new ones in stock today.  Hee hee.


----------



## Ceeluh7

erockg said:


> Audio46 has new ones in stock today.  Hee hee.


Duuuude!


----------



## erockg

Phaethon said:


> For the right sound I would go 400 or 500


I'm really enjoying the Moondrop Variations, but they don't fit the UTWS5 2 Pin well.  Unless you have the MMCX version and use the adapter.  The sub-bass is great.  Also, I've been rocking the Mangird Tea this week.  Bigger soundstage, less sub-bass but nice bass.  Beautiful build.  Variations $520, Tea 299/329 depending on where you get them.  Got the Tea off Amazon.


----------



## erockg

Ceeluh7 said:


> Duuuude!


Where's my car?


----------



## erockg (Jan 21, 2022)

Ceeluh7 said:


> Real quick while I have a moment... Check out the Fiio fh7, moondrop variations, fearless s8, thieaudio oracle, Tanchjim Oxygen, Fiio Fd7... That's a good start.... OK my wife is going to punch me.. Lol. Oh where are you planning on purchasing these sets? Amazon obv would be quickest if you are in the States but not all are going to be available.... I don't think. Ali express takes 27 years to get to you if you are in the States as well. Just wondering.


I have the Clairvoyance inbound too.  Don't ask, ugh.  Headphones.com and Audio46.com give points for purchases.  Both free 2-Day FedEx.  This message will self destruct in 30 seconds.


----------



## BooleanBones

erockg said:


> So the Fokus help you focus... on music?  Imagine that.


Spot on. I can't even walk with them on


----------



## Ceeluh7

erockg said:


> I have the Clairvoyance inbound too.  Don't ask, ugh.  Headphones.com and Audio46.com give points for purchases.  Both free 2-Day FedEx.  This message will self destruct in 30 second.


Ooh I've never tried them... Please let us know when you get them how they sound... Okay I really do have to go.. Ha


----------



## Phaethon

Ceeluh7 said:


> I'll think about that, won't be till later though, I'm sure of few of these guys have some you could try. In that range there is a slew of nice iems. Maybe look for best under 500 lists or videos


Thanks! Right now I’m kicking around the Shuoer EJO7M; the Dunu EST112; and the Kinera Nanna 2.0

Looking for experienced input! Help!


----------



## Phaethon

Ceeluh7 said:


> Real quick while I have a moment... Check out the Fiio fh7, moondrop variations, fearless s8, thieaudio oracle, Tanchjim Oxygen, Fiio Fd7... That's a good start.... OK my wife is going to punch me.. Lol. Oh where are you planning on purchasing these sets? Amazon obv would be quickest if you are in the States but not all are going to be available.... I don't think. Ali express takes 27 years to get to you if you are in the States as well. Just wondering.


Yeah I’m about to get punched as well. I’m in Seattle on the Left Coast and when Amazon doesn’t have it I shop Audio46 and Hifigo. Later dude


----------



## dmphile

OK guys - I dunno if I'm going crazy but after having used the Timeliness with UTWS5 for about a week now, it sounds more warm and less harsh??? Is it burn-in? or did I just get acclimated to the sound? Please educate me on this phenomenon. I've read that after many hours of usage, the Timeless become more refined/smooth and less harsh and I'm wondering if this is the case or placebo and I've just adjusted do it?!


----------



## bladefd (Jan 21, 2022)

erockg said:


> Incoming!!!  ahttps://www.libratone.com/us/products/headphones/airplus-2nd-gen/


If (question of when  ) you buy it, let us know how it is!

I'm not a fan of stems, but it doesn't seem like a huge stem.


----------



## darveniza

Due to work, reports,etc. Spent the comparing some of my TWS units and played around with them . Today I rotated the Nuarl N10, Grell,Audio Technica ATHCW50 , Victor FH1000, B&O EQ, Soundcore L3, Technics AZ60, Sony XM4. Apologies for model typos

Just from today

Really prefer the ANC of the Technics over the Sony. 

App wise Technics,Sony,Nuarl,AT and Soundcore do a good job. Like the layout, structure of the Technics which gives me them an edge. The Nuarl app color is weird and makes it look outdated when it is even better than the B&O. Grell is dependent on SoundId so feel that they are giving up user experience to a 3rd party

Controls 

Sensor Type Preferred the Grell after FW update vs the Technics and B&O which to me is incomplete

Hard Controls Preferred the Victor a great diversity of functions vs the other AT,Nuarl

Cases 

B&O and Sony slim and wireless charge enabled.Like the B&O
Technics and Soundcore, Technics due to size and case opening approach
Liked the Grell but the reverse position of Right and Left as the AKG N400 is just a bit frustrating

Sound 

Oh my I do came to realize how I like the tuning of the Victor. Felt the bass and highs are better executed than the Technics and B&O. Sony is my cup of tea on tuning so a bit biased. Technics is a very capable but I think that the tuning difference and appeal may come from the driver or chamber material

There is a warmth on the tuning without going overboard that creates depth on the bass but creates a layering on vocals that really is to my liking

If you are all looking to try something new. It's easy to buy from Amazon Japan. Buy the Victor version it will complement some of the Western or Chinese tunings that dominate the market

Just some thoughts, as previously from a user, not HiFi expert. But just a wireless addict 🙃


----------



## erockg

Ceeluh7 said:


> Ooh I've never tried them... Please let us know when you get them how they sound... Okay I really do have to go.. Ha


I've got about an 45 mins left of pure silence here until the family takes over my life - Clairvoyance vs Variation vs Tea.  C is just smooth.  Soundstage is really great.  Right off the bat, I notice a drop in the mids in a good way.  That's one thing on the Variations that can be jarring at times.  Sub-bass is similar to the V.  But it doesn't have that slight punch the Vs have.  I'm using the UTWS3 on all of them.  T are just to me, a cheaper version of the C but not as good.  You can tell.  But they're SOOO similar, it's wild.  Switching to the AZ09 Pros now.  The C need more volume now.  V need even more volume.  T do not.  The Variations are a sub-bass monster in comparison to the other two.  But they have a more in the mids, which sometimes bothers me.  Switched from Spinfits to the Noble tips on the C.  The Clairvoyance with the UTWS3 are like a melding of the Tea and Variations with slightly less sub-bass (it's negligible) and a drop in the mids to take away some harshness.  The way all the drivers work together is pretty amazing.  Never heard something like this.  Makes me wish I could've exchanged my UTWS5s that I returned to try a little more power.

The two tracks I was playing with:









Then, I put these two tracks on with the C and I am literally here getting the chills.  It's just the way it should be:  



.  



.


----------



## erockg

darveniza said:


> Due to work, reports,etc. Spent the comparing some of my TWS units and played around with them . Today I rotated the Nuarl N10, Grell,Audio Technica ATHCW50 , Victor FH1000, B&O EQ, Soundcore L3, Technics AZ60, Sony XM4. Apologies for model typos
> 
> Just from today
> 
> ...


The beautiful thing about this image is that I now know I'm not crazy.  Thank you for sharing.


----------



## Ceeluh7

dmphile said:


> OK guys - I dunno if I'm going crazy but after having used the Timeliness with UTWS5 for about a week now, it sounds more warm and less harsh??? Is it burn-in? or did I just get acclimated to the sound? Please educate me on this phenomenon. I've read that after many hours of usage, the Timeless become more refined/smooth and less harsh and I'm wondering if this is the case or placebo and I've just adjusted do it?!


Yep that sounds like burn in... Or in your case "listen-in". Yes I burn in all my iems. Materials can change due to heat, cold, vibration etc etc and many other variables and expand contract The drivers we listen to are no different. I work in a field where I Inspect such changes in different materials. Most companies state an amount of time (burn in or listen in) before making a judgment on their sets. I have heard huge changes on some sets and not that big of changes as some iems just don't need it. Titanium Drivers are one which most definitely need burned in as well as beryllium drivers, graphene drivers among others. Well I  shouldn't say "need". But the sound will change over use to the intended sound sig and tonality. Even tws, in fact this Grado GT220 set I got about 1 1/2 week ago, at first were so damn peaky and piercing at times, and the bass was sloppier. Dude after using these everyday these have turned into such a great set. I can't say enough about them. They are cleaner, the peaks are gone and now they are so nice and airy, the bass is tighter, bass guitars growl man, for a tws they sound nice. Even EQ'ing them only slightly helped, tip changes as well. It was the time that the driver material was experiencing heat and vibration as the drivers expand and contract at a crazy rate. Just materials doing what materials do when subjected to this type of energy.


----------



## BooleanBones

darveniza said:


> Due to work, reports,etc. Spent the comparing some of my TWS units and played around with them . Today I rotated the Nuarl N10, Grell,Audio Technica ATHCW50 , Victor FH1000, B&O EQ, Soundcore L3, Technics AZ60, Sony XM4. Apologies for model typos
> 
> Just from today
> 
> ...


Comfort ranking? How do the Victors fit in your ranking?


----------



## Ceeluh7

erockg said:


> I've got about an 45 mins left of pure silence here until the family takes over my life - Clairvoyance vs Variation vs Tea.  C is just smooth.  Soundstage is really great.  Right off the bat, I notice a drop in the mids in a good way.  That's one thing on the Variations that can be jarring at times.  Sub-bass is similar to the V.  But it doesn't have that slight punch the Vs have.  I'm using the UTWS3 on all of them.  T are just to me, a cheaper version of the C but not as good.  You can tell.  But they're SOOO similar, it's wild.  Switching to the AZ09 Pros now.  The C need more volume now.  V need even more volume.  T do not.  The Variations are a sub-bass monster in comparison to the other two.  But they have a more in the mids, which sometimes bothers me.  Switched from Spinfits to the Noble tips on the C.  The Clairvoyance with the UTWS3 are like a melding of the Tea and Variations with slightly less sub-bass (it's negligible) and a drop in the mids to take away some harshness.  The way all the drivers work together is pretty amazing.  Never heard something like this.  Makes me wish I could've exchanged my UTWS5s that I returned to try a little more power.
> 
> The two tracks I was playing with:
> 
> ...


Are you thinking of something like qudelix or btr5 or ifi go blu? More power. No doubt all of these will open up with more clean power. Maybe not all to the same extent but... Man nice review. That is exactly what I wanted to know. You are a machine lately and it's cool to hear what you find. I wrote off clairvoyance man, truthfully I don't really know why. I think I was just seeing too much thieaudio at the time. From what you are describing... Damn. Anyways, get like  the IFi Go Blu with its 165 mw of single ended 3.5 power and 250ish mw of balanced power compared to the 38 mw of the utws3.. Dude you'll fall I love. Same goes for the Qudelix and btr5. Sorry man, I just freaking love those things. Anyways thanks for giving us a mini review. I'd like to hear what you find as you keep using them.


----------



## erockg

Ceeluh7 said:


> Are you thinking of something like qudelix or btr5 or ifi go blu? More power. No doubt all of these will open up with more clean power. Maybe not all to the same extent but... Man nice review. That is exactly what I wanted to know. You are a machine lately and it's cool to hear what you find. I wrote off clairvoyance man, truthfully I don't really know why. I think I was just seeing too much thieaudio at the time. From what you are describing... Damn. Anyways, get like  the IFi Go Blu with its 165 mw of single ended 3.5 power and 250ish mw of balanced power compared to the 38 mw of the utws3.. Dude you'll fall I love. Same goes for the Qudelix and btr5. Sorry man, I just freaking love those things. Anyways thanks for giving us a mini review. I'd like to hear what you find as you keep using them.


Thanks for the kind words.  The fit and function of the Cs is really great.  I read some folks prefer them over the Monarch MK2.  I'm really impressed.  You're seriously in cahoots with the devil, tempting me with the amps.  I have some Amazon gift cards coming from Xmas so there may be one of those in my future.  That said, I'm really resistant to wires these days.  Like, big time.


----------



## bladefd

Ah man, the JVC Victor are around $315 after you convert. And that's without shipping included. I would think you probably wouldn't get warranty either unless if you ship to Japan for any issues. Could be very costly unfortunately =[


----------



## erockg

bladefd said:


> If (question of when  ) you buy it, let us know how it is!
> 
> I'm not a fan of stems, but it doesn't seem like a huge stem.


I'm Amazons next stop.  Will report back!


----------



## darveniza

BooleanBones said:


> Comfort ranking? How do the Victors fit in your ranking?


They fit me well. Just remember to insert and twist.
My problem child for fit are the Klipsch T5ii McLaren. Those tips drive me insane


----------



## darveniza

bladefd said:


> Ah man, the JVC Victor are around $315 after you convert. And that's without shipping included. I would think you probably wouldn't get warranty either unless if you ship to Japan for any issues. Could be very costly unfortunately =[


I have bought like 5-6 TWS and have never had an issue. But understand your point


----------



## Ceeluh7

erockg said:


> Thanks for the kind words.  The fit and function of the Cs is really great.  I read some folks prefer them over the Monarch MK2.  I'm really impressed.  You're seriously in cahoots with the devil, tempting me with the amps.  I have some Amazon gift cards coming from Xmas so there may be one of those in my future.  That said, I'm really resistant to wires these days.  Like, big time.


I get it man. I am a sucker for it all. Especially nice cables. However I love wireless just as much. At least with something like the Qudelix I just stuff the wire under my shirt with qudelix in pocket and the sound is just really nice with any of the three I mentioned. I'm not trying to sway you I just really enjoy them. I get it about not wanting wires. Honestly the SQ Is so good anymore you get all of what you need from the adapters... I know I do.


----------



## darveniza

Ceeluh7 said:


> Yep that sounds like burn in... Or in your case "listen-in". Yes I burn in all my iems. Materials can change due to heat, cold, vibration etc etc and many other variables and expand contract The drivers we listen to are no different. I work in a field where I Inspect such changes in different materials. Most companies state an amount of time (burn in or listen in) before making a judgment on their sets. I have heard huge changes on some sets and not that big of changes as some iems just don't need it. Titanium Drivers are one which most definitely need burned in as well as beryllium drivers, graphene drivers among others. Well I  shouldn't say "need". But the sound will change over use to the intended sound sig and tonality. Even tws, in fact this Grado GT220 set I got about 1 1/2 week ago, at first were so damn peaky and piercing at times, and the bass was sloppier. Dude after using these everyday these have turned into such a great set. I can't say enough about them. They are cleaner, the peaks are gone and now they are so nice and airy, the bass is tighter, bass guitars growl man, for a tws they sound nice. Even EQ'ing them only slightly helped, tip changes as well. It was the time that the driver material was experiencing heat and vibration as the drivers expand and contract at a crazy rate. Just materials doing what materials do when subjected to this type of energy.


Grado are an acquired taste but have remain in the rotation. Very particular tuning


----------



## darveniza

erockg said:


> The beautiful thing about this image is that I now know I'm not crazy.  Thank you for sharing.


Funny, at least I am not alone in this journey 😁😁😁


----------



## Ceeluh7

darveniza said:


> Grado are an acquired taste but have remain in the rotation. Very particular tuning


Ya you are exactly right. I don't think everyone would love them. They are very good, not the best but damn good. Out of the choices I had at the time they were simply the best. I love how dynamic they are. Airy and deep bass and a nice wide soundstage. I actually can't take them out of my ears lately. They fit like a glove for me. Great clarity and details. Trust me though there are other sets I Def want more but these are nice to hold me off for a bit.


----------



## erockg

Ceeluh7 said:


> Ya you are exactly right. I don't think everyone would love them. They are very good, not the best but damn good. Out of the choices I had at the time they were simply the best. I love how dynamic they are. Airy and deep bass and a nice wide soundstage. I actually can't take them out of my ears lately. They fit like a glove for me. Great clarity and details. Trust me though there are other sets I Def want more but these are nice to hold me off for a bit.


I really like the Grado.  I truly need to revisit them.  I thought the tip insertion was really deep but the sound and sound stage was spot on.  Ugh.  Stop it, people!


----------



## erockg

Ceeluh7 said:


> I get it man. I am a sucker for it all. Especially nice cables. However I love wireless just as much. At least with something like the Qudelix I just stuff the wire under my shirt with qudelix in pocket and the sound is just really nice with any of the three I mentioned. I'm not trying to sway you I just really enjoy them. I get it about not wanting wires. Honestly the SQ Is so good anymore you get all of what you need from the adapters... I know I do.


NOT at all.  I know the next step is to at least try it and see what's up.  It'll be a Clairvoyance weekend for sure.


----------



## Ceeluh7

erockg said:


> NOT at all.  I know the next step is to at least try it and see what's up.  It'll be a Clairvoyance weekend for sure.


What a nice set to spend time with. Enjoy em bro. You have me checking them out a little closer for sure. Have fun man, no doubt I'm going to do the same.


----------



## erockg

Ceeluh7 said:


> What a nice set to spend time with. Enjoy em bro. You have me checking them out a little closer for sure. Have fun man, no doubt I'm going to do the same.


Bad Guy Good Audio swayed me.  That and a few other folks on this forum.  Not doubt the MK2 will slowly creep in one day.  That and those SeeAudio Crinacle IEMs.


----------



## erockg

bladefd said:


> If (question of when  ) you buy it, let us know how it is!
> 
> I'm not a fan of stems, but it doesn't seem like a huge stem.


They are TINY.  Updating the firmware while watching Lego Jurassic Park.  Again.  Everyone should try it.


----------



## Ceeluh7

erockg said:


> Bad Guy Good Audio swayed me.  That and a few other folks on this forum.  Not doubt the MK2 will slowly creep in one day.  That and those SeeAudio Crinacle IEMs.


Ya I trust BGGAR as the sound he goes for is very similar to mine. Damn near every set he has rec'd I have felt close to the same about. Mk2 I have not heard, don't have the budget for it at the moment but would love to get my hands on them.


----------



## Ceeluh7

erockg said:


> They are TINY.  Updating the firmware while watching Lego Jurassic Park.  Again.  Everyone should try it.


So I heard the tonality is on the warm side... Rolled off top end. But that was a youtube reviewer I don't really trust that much. As always... Curious


----------



## FYLegend

dweaver said:


> Not sure if the Galaxy Buds Pro works differently or not. But I have lost 1 or both buds twice and both times I was able to go into the wear app and it showed me exactly where the bud(s) was located using maps. In both cases I was able to find my lost buds.


I believe it only works when your buds are outside the case. Unfortunately the area I last had them was rather sketchy and it looks like it was last reported in a back alley near Chinatown. I have no update on it since but I guess it got factory reset afterwards.


----------



## erockg

Ceeluh7 said:


> So I heard the tonality is on the warm side... Rolled off top end. But that was a youtube reviewer I don't really trust that much. As always... Curious


I don't find them warm at all tbh.  I think they lack bass, but they're better than AirPods Pro by far.  The Marshall Motif ANC sound better.  Bigger sound, fuller, more sub-bass, but also you get a better EQ even though they're presets.   The mic on the Air+ is really great.  Loud.  Case is around the first gen AirPods size.  Maybe the same size.  Nice.  Wireless charging.  Auto pause when you take them out.  ANC cuts fans and electronic hums in my living room.  Not top tier, but okay.  Might have to do some tip rolling to see what changes.  Sound could use more EQ.  This is a great set if you want a very low profile set of buds for calls and tunes that also fit in your pocket unobtrusively.  Tap controls for everything.  Volume, ANC and the usual.  Nice to see.  Marshall Motif ANC do not have volume controls.  I'm going to go back and forth with these two buds since they're so similar in form factor and function.  TTFN.


----------



## bladefd (Jan 22, 2022)

It's absolute insanity trying to replace low-quality mp3 files with higher-quality mp3s of 200+ kbps. I noticed a lot of my music has been under 128kbps for ages since I was in school 15yrs ago that I think it's finally time to upgrade it all up a notch. I have to go through 150 songs just to say "Yeah, all my songs are over 128kbps".. It's tiring going song-by-song, 1 at a time. Especially when you have your desktop mp3s, and youtube hosting the mp3s. Have to do it twice.

Been doing it for a while now, I don't know how many songs I have gone through on this Friday night. My hands hurt. The hell you have to go through just to have good quality music is aggravating, and I'm too cheap for spotify.


----------



## bladefd

And yes yes, FLAC is the best, but it would be insane trying to get all FLAC files. I don't know if Youtube lets you host FLAC, and it would take me ages to upload it anyways. I'm making do with 200kbps+. Basically, the bare minimum I'm okay with is 128kbps, but that's mainly for old songs from 60s/70s/80s that are lacking in recording technology quality already. I prefer 200+ to balance out size/quality.


----------



## Ceeluh7

bladefd said:


> And yes yes, FLAC is the best, but it would be insane trying to get all FLAC files. I don't know if Youtube lets you host FLAC, and it would take me ages to upload it anyways. I'm making do with 200kbps+. Basically, the bare minimum I'm okay with is 128kbps, but that's mainly for old songs from 60s/70s/80s that are lacking in recording technology quality already. I prefer 200+ to balance out size/quality.


Nothing wrong with tht at all. So long as you enjoy it man. From here on out just try to upgrade to flac if you can or burn some cd's. That's mostly how I got my music.


----------



## bladefd (Jan 22, 2022)

Ceeluh7 said:


> Nothing wrong with tht at all. So long as you enjoy it man. From here on out just try to upgrade to flac if you can or burn some cd's. That's mostly how I got my music.


Truth be told, I have been focusing on hardware side all these years. Not much on the music files themselves. I have been too lazy lol. It's very time-consuming with 1,200 songs when only a third are 320kbps. Trying to get 800 songs up to 320kbps is a nightmare and costly. Might be a process of couple years to do it.

That actually makes me wonder if the difference between say 160kbps and 320kbps would even be noticeable on tws. It's not quite the same as on the sennheiser HD600, which should be easy to notice. No tws out there are on the same universe as the HD600 or even the beyerdyamic DT880.


----------



## xeadfi

Hi. I am looking to purchase aptx compatible TWS from aliexpress. 

Brief requirements are:


Feature: aptx compatible (must)
Budget: 50$ slightly flexible
Sound Signature: Flat (must)
Shape: Small/earbud (Sony XM3 shape.)
Use: Movies, Music (FLAC)

I have currently locked onto Edifier X3S. Is there anything better?


----------



## Ceeluh7

bladefd said:


> Truth be told, I have been focusing on hardware side all these years. Not much on the music files themselves. I have been too lazy lol. It's very time-consuming with 1,200 songs when only a third are 320kbps. Trying to get 800 songs up to 320kbps is a nightmare and costly. Might be a process of couple years to do it.
> 
> That actually makes me wonder if the difference between say 160kbps and 320kbps would even be noticeable on tws. It's not quite the same as on the sennheiser HD600, which should be easy to notice. No tws out there are on the same universe as the HD600 or even the beyerdyamic DT880.


I don't think that is as noticeable as 320 kb to 1000. For out and about listening... Not really. For concentrated listening... Yes there is a difference however it doesn't take away the overall presence of a track. 99% of my music is flac that I slowly acquired.


----------



## guitarizt

Ceeluh7 said:


> Ya I trust BGGAR as the sound he goes for is very similar to mine. Damn near every set he has rec'd I have felt close to the same about. Mk2 I have not heard, don't have the budget for it at the moment but would love to get my hands on them.


Interesting, I'll have to watch him more. I listened to the mele's for just a bit, interesting sound sig. I like the leas with my eq more, but it's more of an apples to oranges comparison. The meles for 50 are a great buy still, and it's so cool to hear how some of these yt reviewers would tune stuff. I also need to use them more as I haven't even used them for 20 min yet.


bladefd said:


> It's absolute insanity trying to replace low-quality mp3 files with higher-quality mp3s of 200+ kbps. I noticed a lot of my music has been under 128kbps for ages since I was in school 15yrs ago that I think it's finally time to upgrade it all up a notch. I have to go through 150 songs just to say "Yeah, all my songs are over 128kbps".. It's tiring going song-by-song, 1 at a time. Especially when you have your desktop mp3s, and youtube hosting the mp3s. Have to do it twice.
> 
> Been doing it for a while now, I don't know how many songs I have gone through on this Friday night. My hands hurt. The hell you have to go through just to have good quality music is aggravating, and I'm too cheap for spotify.


I used to love having a hard copy of my music, but streaming is just too good now. Especially apple music. Then I use yt music for the more obscure stuff. Uploading to yt seems to defeat the purpose because then you can just use yt music.


----------



## Ceeluh7

xeadfi said:


> Hi. I am looking to purchase aptx compatible TWS from aliexpress.
> 
> Brief requirements are:
> 
> ...


Possibly edifier tws1 pro. I absolutely loved those buds man. Very airy yet tight and well done bass. Titanium Drivers that actually sound as a titanium driver should sound. 12 hrs battery life. One of the more detailed sounding sets. They aren't too big either.


----------



## Ceeluh7 (Jan 22, 2022)

guitarizt said:


> Interesting, I'll have to watch him more. I listened to the mele's for just a bit, interesting sound sig. I like the leas with my eq more, but it's more of an apples to oranges comparison. The meles for 50 are a great buy still, and it's so cool to hear how some of these yt reviewers would tune stuff. I also need to use them more as I haven't even used them for 20 min yet.
> 
> I used to love having a hard copy of my music, but streaming is just too good now. Especially apple music. Then I use yt music for the more obscure stuff. Uploading to yt seems to defeat the purpose because then you can just use yt music.


I love the Mele’s... I actually just put them on my utws5... Sounds great. To me everything is where it should be on the spectrum. Obviously some do it better but the tonality is close to the Blon 03. More natural like the Blons but slightly imo different. That is another set every person on planet earth should own... The legendary chifi budget champ... The Blon 03.


----------



## jant71

erockg said:


> The beautiful thing about this image is that I now know I'm not crazy.  Thank you for sharing.


Or maybe you are but it is good to know you are not the only one. 





Annnd, again, where is the proof that the Victor is tuned any different? Just because people don't know about Victor and to not confuse they brand it JVC in the US but that is just the branding. Where is FR graphs or pictures of them having different screen materials to alter or something. Maybe I missed something? Fill me in.


----------



## Phaethon

In my never-ending quest to bankrupt myself looking for the audio perfection for my ears, I am flying through reviews of IEMs (thanks for the fine set of suggestions @Ceeluh7) to pair with my various wireless adapters (see, see! I’m staying on the wireless topic!) and I am now exploring some other options. I read a review here that says my much-loved Ikko OH10s have a nearly identical sound signature to the Ibasso it07s. Of course for the price leap the Ibasso has much more sonic refinement, etc. 
I am also wondering about anyone’s experience in the Campfire universe. My current favorites are the Ikko OH10s, so thats a starting point. 
Thanks for sharing your knowledge and experience. That’s why I hang out here so much!


----------



## scubaphish

jant71 said:


> Annnd, again, where is the proof that the Victor is tuned any different? Just because people don't know about Victor and to not confuse they brand it JVC in the US but that is just the branding. Where is FR graphs or pictures of them having different screen materials to alter or something. Maybe I missed something? Fill me in.


To your point, on the JVC us website they make a point of emphasizing “tuned by Victor; japan’s leading…” in the marketing materials.


----------



## Phaethon

scubaphish said:


> To your point, on the JVC us website they make a point of emphasizing “tuned by Victor; japan’s leading…” in the marketing materials.


But the US versions don’t have Nipper, the RCA dog, on them! That’s what I would be willing to pay for!


----------



## jant71

Phaethon said:


> But the US versions don’t have Nipper, the RCA dog, on them! That’s what I would be willing to pay for!


I agree there. Not quite the same being just a JVC.


----------



## erockg

jant71 said:


> Or maybe you are but it is good to know you are not the only one.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Read between my lines, OF COURSE WE ALL ARE!  Ha ha!


----------



## Ceeluh7

jant71 said:


> Or maybe you are but it is good to know you are not the only one.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Good question if like to know too


Phaethon said:


> In my never-ending quest to bankrupt myself looking for the audio perfection for my ears, I am flying through reviews of IEMs (thanks for the fine set of suggestions @Ceeluh7) to pair with my various wireless adapters (see, see! I’m staying on the wireless topic!) and I am now exploring some other options. I read a review here that says my much-loved Ikko OH10s have a nearly identical sound signature to the Ibasso it07s. Of course for the price leap the Ibasso has much more sonic refinement, etc.
> I am also wondering about anyone’s experience in the Campfire universe. My current favorites are the Ikko OH10s, so thats a starting point.
> Thanks for sharing your knowledge and experience. That’s why I hang out here so much!


Oh you and i both man. Truly there just a huge amount of great iems that way out perform their price point. Ikko oh10 is one of them. The SQ is Incremental from I'd say 300 on up but you are right, there is more refinement to a degree. Maybe look for different driver set ups and styles. Campfire has good high end stuff... Imo their lower tier sets are not good and if you check reviews it'll repeat what I just said. I'm glad you are venturing out man, absolutely glad to help in any way that I can


----------



## BooleanBones

Phaethon said:


> But the US versions don’t have Nipper, the RCA dog, on them! That’s what I would be willing to pay for!


+3, the Japanese version is sexier


----------



## HaliHarry

The victor fw1000t is announced by Victor that use the same driver and sound is tuned like the jvc fw10000, the most popular high-end iem in my country, ranked above ie900, z1r, dita dream xls, noble solaris.  I went crazy waiting for it shipping from Japan.


----------



## darveniza

erockg said:


> They are TINY.  Updating the firmware while watching Lego Jurassic Park.  Again.  Everyone should try it.


I received the Marshall Motif. I like the size and the texture on the stems. Bit confused by the control approach and not using L/R to manage volume. 
Keep mine with ANC on as that is were I feel the Marshall tuning sounds the best. 
When I placed their case next to the Nuarl 10 is just funny how companies are looking at portability


----------



## erockg

darveniza said:


> I received the Marshall Motif. I like the size and the texture on the stems. Bit confused by the control approach and not using L/R to manage volume.
> Keep mine with ANC on as that is were I feel the Marshall tuning sounds the best.
> When I placed their case next to the Nuarl 10 is just funny how companies are looking at portability


Outside of missing vol controls, they’re damn good.  I love the soundstage.  Also, for me, they don’t seem to want to take the tap customizations, no matter how many times I try to set them.


----------



## darveniza

jant71 said:


> Or maybe you are but it is good to know you are not the only one.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


There is a site PhillyWeb I think is Japanese and they have talked about how JVC actually does tune things differently for home market vs others. Supposedly due to a very specific taste in Japan. UM did the same for the first MEST. You can detect this difference with FitEar , Ocharaku IEM's which could see how Mids and Highs are tuned close with some particular audience in mind. FR Graphs for TWS items are not easy to come by.
But that was an article,it could be wrong


----------



## darveniza

erockg said:


> Outside of missing vol controls, they’re damn good.  I love the soundstage.  Also, for me, they don’t seem to want to take the tap customizations, no matter how many times I try to set them.


Have not tried changing the taps. Will test.


----------



## erockg

Ceeluh7 said:


> So I heard the tonality is on the warm side... Rolled off top end. But that was a youtube reviewer I don't really trust that much. As always... Curious


So further to this, I'd pass on the Libratone Air + 2  They're nice, sure.  They're tiny.  But, the Marshall Motif ANC, even though the ANC is a tad better on the Air + 2, the Motif sound exceptionally better.  Sending the Air + 2 back   For the price, even though they lack volume controls, they Marshall buds are the better set.


----------



## Ceeluh7

erockg said:


> So further to this, I'd pass on the Libratone Air + 2  They're nice, sure.  They're tiny.  But, the Marshall Motif ANC, even though the ANC is a tad better on the Air + 2, the Motif sound exceptionally better.  Sending the Air + 2 back   For the price, even though they lack volume controls, they Marshall buds are the better set.


Thanks man. I appreciate the reply, glad now I didn't jump on them.


----------



## Phaethon

erockg said:


> So further to this, I'd pass on the Libratone Air + 2  They're nice, sure.  They're tiny.  But, the Marshall Motif ANC, even though the ANC is a tad better on the Air + 2, the Motif sound exceptionally better.  Sending the Air + 2 back   For the price, even though they lack volume controls, they Marshall buds are the better set.


That was my experience too. They got just about everything right except the sound!


----------



## Phaethon

Updates: since Jan 19 I’ve tested the Tinhifi P1 Plus, KZ ZEX Pro, Tripowin Mele, Fiio JH3, KZ DQ6, and Fiio FH9. Of those I am keeping the two Fiios and the Mele. The Fiios are at both budget ends and I’ve never heard anything like the full sonic package the FH9s deliver to my individual ears. The Mele are just fun and may be what I keep on my Fiio wireless adapters. Tuesday I have the Ibasso IT 07s and I’ll have a showdown between the two flagships. 
I also spent some time with my Tanchjim Echoes and they are pleasingly tuned and featureless. They may be my dog walking buds


----------



## Ceeluh7

Phaethon said:


> Updates: since Jan 19 I’ve tested the Tinhifi P1 Plus, KZ ZEX Pro, Tripowin Mele, Fiio JH3, KZ DQ6, and Fiio FH9. Of those I am keeping the two Fiios and the Mele. The Fiios are at both budget ends and I’ve never heard anything like the full sonic package the FH9s deliver to my individual ears. The Mele are just fun and may be what I keep on my Fiio wireless adapters. Tuesday I have the Ibasso IT 07s and I’ll have a showdown between the two flagships.
> I also spent some time with my Tanchjim Echoes and they are pleasingly tuned and featureless. They may be my dog walking buds


Nice.... That all sounds perfect. I would've kept the same. Mele with the adapters sounds nice man.


----------



## jwong

I don't suppose anyone has tried the CCA CA16 PRO with any of the adapters? Just curious if they would fit well.

I have the Mele just mentioned, but have them up for sale in the classifieds now because they weren't really my cup of tea.


----------



## Phaethon

Ceeluh7 said:


> Nice.... That all sounds perfect. I would've kept the same. Mele with the adapters sounds nice man.


I think you mentioned the JH3 a couple of days ago. I read that JadeAudio is intended to be Fiios consumer market IEMs. If that’s true, consumers are getting a solid IEM, with a lively signature and great separation. Not much sub to the bass, but it has that bass pop that makes me grin. Fiio throws a good cable in the box and there is no sense that this is a lesser offering. This is an amazing value.


----------



## erockg

Phaethon said:


> I think you mentioned the JH3 a couple of days ago. I read that JadeAudio is intended to be Fiios consumer market IEMs. If that’s true, consumers are getting a solid IEM, with a lively signature and great separation. Not much sub to the bass, but it has that bass pop that makes me grin. Fiio throws a good cable in the box and there is no sense that this is a lesser offering. This is an amazing value.


I had those FH9 and preferred the Variations until I received my Thieaudio Clairvoyance on Friday.  Man, they are incredible. Loving every minute of them.


----------



## Not so fat head

Don’t miss Sony XM3’s or M&D’s when they go on sale…
Picked up XM3.   $118
MD 07. $99

Both at BB..


----------



## Not so fat head

Unfortunately to get the deals, ya have to wait at least a year after original issues date..  maybe longer..

Might pic up Sennhieiser MTW2 when they hit $150


----------



## Ceeluh7

Phaethon said:


> I think you mentioned the JH3 a couple of days ago. I read that JadeAudio is intended to be Fiios consumer market IEMs. If that’s true, consumers are getting a solid IEM, with a lively signature and great separation. Not much sub to the bass, but it has that bass pop that makes me grin. Fiio throws a good cable in the box and there is no sense that this is a lesser offering. This is an amazing value.


That's right, Jade Audio has been Fiio's "budget" offering sister company. Of course, the so called budget offering is already very well made and tuned and are very nice for the money spent. When Fiio made the Fd1 then JA made the Ea1, when Fiio made the Fh1s then JA made the Ea3, and so on and so on. Honestly the JH3 has a fun tuning, wider soundstage and is just... Pleasent, and yes they always add good cables, never cheap, but good feeling pure copper cables. Anyways you have some nice gear to get you by for sure man.


----------



## Ceeluh7

jwong said:


> I don't suppose anyone has tried the CCA CA16 PRO with any of the adapters? Just curious if they would fit well.
> 
> I have the Mele just mentioned, but have them up for sale in the classifieds now because they weren't really my cup of tea.


I haven't tried the ca16 pro but I own the kz ZAS which is basically the ca16 pro.... Freaking awesome. I love that set man. The ZAS fit well so I assume the ca16 pro will be fine


----------



## Not so fat head

I will say after buying apparently 1,000 dollar headphones, I don’t know of any other hobby with lower diminishing returns.   So I’m not sure a $400 to 500 dollar TWS would give a great bang for buck…
It is what it is…


----------



## Phaethon

Ceeluh7 said:


> That's right, Jade Audio has been Fiio's "budget" offering sister company. Of course, the so called budget offering is already very well made and tuned and are very nice for the money spent. When Fiio made the Fd1 then JA made the Ea1, when Fiio made the Fh1s then JA made the Ea3, and so on and so on. Honestly the JH3 has a fun tuning, wider soundstage and is just... Pleasent, and yes they always add good cables, never cheap, but good feeling pure copper cables. Anyways you have some nice gear to get you by for sure man.


Listening to Vulfpeck’s 1612 on the JH3 and I have to say I hate the tangle of all cables but I love the sound. Do you prefer losing the cable using the TW adapters or using a DAC/Amp?
If it’s a Bluetooth DAC/Amp like Qudelix, is there the same Bluetooth issues that a TWS gives us?


----------



## tinyman392

Not so fat head said:


> I will say after buying apparently 1,000 dollar headphones, I don’t know of any other hobby with lower diminishing returns.   So I’m not sure a $400 to 500 dollar TWS would give a great bang for buck…
> It is what it is…



These are very rough estimates but a 400 dollar TWS (audio only) might sound closer to a 250-300 dollar IEM depending on manufacturer.  If you add in ANC and all the bells and whistles, it’ll probably sound closer to a 150-250 dollar IEM depending on manufacturer and ANC quality.  The other issue with TWS is that it essentially is a wear item meaning that they are designed to be used up then thrown out once the battery is worn.  I’m not sure how many manufacturers offer battery replacement programs (at cost) with their TWS IEMs, and how long such a program would go for.


----------



## Phaethon

erockg said:


> I had those FH9 and preferred the Variations until I received my Thieaudio Clairvoyance on Friday.  Man, they are incredible. Loving every minute of them.


They must be awesome to pull ahead of the Variations and the FH9! Where’d you get them? Audio46 is only taking preorders and Amazon US doesn’t have them.


----------



## erockg

Phaethon said:


> They must be awesome to pull ahead of the Variations and the FH9! Where’d you get them? Audio46 is only taking preorders and Amazon US doesn’t have them.


Headphones.com and they shipped 2-day FedEx from your state to Los Angeles.  They have a ton of cool stuff in stock.  I do shop at Audio46 too 

I thought the FH9 had a nice soundstage but they lacked the little bit of sub-bass I love.  I also prefer the IEMs that feel like fitted IEM and most of the ones I have like that fit me like a glove.


----------



## Phaethon

erockg said:


> Headphones.com and they shipped 2-day FedEx from your state to Los Angeles.  They have a ton of cool stuff in stock.  I do shop at Audio46 too
> 
> I thought the FH9 had a nice soundstage but they lacked the little bit of sub-bass I love.  I also prefer the IEMs that feel like fitted IEM and most of the ones I have like that fit me like a glove.


I just looked up Headphones.com at Better Business Bureau and they’ve only got 6 consumer complaints. I think all 6 of them were from people saying that it wasn’t clear on the website that open-box sales are final! The return policy on open-box items is put in bold print on the product page for the item. I don’t know of any company that has a different policy. Or of any other company doing a 365 day return like they offer. I guess they have to yell “Read the bold print people!”


----------



## erockg

Phaethon said:


> I just looked up Headphones.com at Better Business Bureau and they’ve only got 6 consumer complaints. I think all 6 of them were from people saying that it wasn’t clear on the website that open-box sales are final! The return policy on open-box items is put in bold print on the product page for the item. I don’t know of any company that has a different policy. Or of any other company doing a 365 day return like they offer. I guess they have to yell “Read the bold print people!”


Yeah, it says right on their site that open box sales are final. I never really buy open Box stuff. So it really doesn’t affect me. I will say their customer service was spot on, even after several questions via chat with their representative. It was shipped the same day and I got it really fast.  I’m pretty happy customer.


----------



## Not so fat head

I’ve watched so many reviews on Headphones.com, that I should probably buy something from them.  They seem OK to me.
I’ll try another very high end headphone, but I really want something to knock my socks off..


----------



## Ceeluh7

Phaethon said:


> Listening to Vulfpeck’s 1612 on the JH3 and I have to say I hate the tangle of all cables but I love the sound. Do you prefer losing the cable using the TW adapters or using a DAC/Amp?
> If it’s a Bluetooth DAC/Amp like Qudelix, is there the same Bluetooth issues that a TWS gives us?


Honestly when I am using the Qudelix, Btr5, or the IFi Go Blu I don't see much of a difference at all from wired sound. Those devices are so nice man. As far as what do I prefer... If I am just sitting down I like to listen to my phone with the Fiio KA3 dongle dac, Shanling Ua2 dongle dac, or the Fiio M11 DAP or just throw on the IFi Go Blu or qudelix... I really switch it up alot. I will from time to time throw on some tws or the adapters  but if I really want to hear my music then I'd go with those mentioned above. Like I said I switch it up alot. The adapters get you alot closer than tws and are a good way to take in music between tws and something like the IFi. I tell you what though, the adapters are really nice. You really get nice replay from any of the adapters mentioned in this group. They are no slouches at all. If I did not have the IFi and qudelix and btr5 I would be as happy as can be with an adapter and an iem attached. As far as the Qudelix or something like it if there is the same issues as tws.... No.... No those things raise the bar. They will drive pretty much any iem very well.


----------



## Not so fat head

Sorry, was just thinking out loud…
I’m not soliciting HP recommendations.
I want to stay on topic..
I’ll check other blogs.


----------



## bladefd

Did anyone try both AZ60 and Nuratrue? I would be curious how the 2 compare. Not that I'm at the point of buying (yet), but I recall Nuratrue getting lots of traction here a few months ago, but it's kind of been quiet since. I feel AZ60 is getting the most talk here last couple month.


----------



## xuan87

Discussions here tend to focus on the newer models. The AZ60 is newer than the Nuratrue so naturally we see more discussions of the former here.

I have the Nuratrue and out of my five TWS in rotation (Sony XM3, UE Fits, Marshall Mode II and Beo E8), I'll probably recommend the Nuratrue to be the best all-rounder TWS. 

Just bought the Marshall Montif but the ETA is more than a month away, so in the meantime, I might do a quick reviews of them using the Sony XM3 as the baseline comparison model.


----------



## Ceeluh7

bladefd said:


> Did anyone try both AZ60 and Nuratrue? I would be curious how the 2 compare. Not that I'm at the point of buying (yet), but I recall Nuratrue getting lots of traction here a few months ago, but it's kind of been quiet since. I feel AZ60 is getting the most talk here last couple month.


I had them both. For pure SQ the Nuratrue are the clear winners... For me. For everything else the AZ60 are just better, better built, better features. Not that Nuratrue lack... They have pretty much all features but just not implemented as well. I actually enjoyed them both. Two very nice sets. The Nura's sound pretty awesome man, but are odd looking and can fit a bit funny, however once you have them seated well... The sound is truly great for a tws. The AZ60 sound good but have all the features and are done well. I realize that doesn't help you... At all. I should add that I am not entirely sure that I didn't have a defective AZ60 as I had very limited area of sub-bass to mid-bass. It was odd, very odd. Certain areas of the low end would hit pretty good but others was absolutely non-existent... Also I had quite alot of sibilance that couldn't be gotten rid of. Not with tips, not with EQ and trust me I tried for days with every trick in the book. Others in this group have reported none of what I heard so I am thinking maybe.... Maybe.... I just had a bad unit... Idk. I would like to give the AZ60 another try one of these days. All that said... The Nuratrue are beasts SQ wise. Very full sound, as full as you want it. Every area of the spectrum is represented very well. They just tick every box in the Audio Dept. The anc wasn't very good, the Hear thru (or whatever they call it) was not that great either. The app is okay but I'd prefer the AZ60's for everything else.


----------



## xuan87

Ceeluh7 said:


> I had them both. For pure SQ the Nuratrue are the clear winners... For me. For everything else the AZ60 are just better, better built, better features. Not that Nuratrue lack... They have pretty much all features but just not implemented as well. I actually enjoyed them both. Two very nice sets. The Nura's sound pretty awesome man, but are odd looking and can fit a bit funny, however once you have them seated well... The sound is truly great for a tws. The AZ60 sound good but have all the features and are done well. I realize that doesn't help you... At all. I should add that I am not entirely sure that I didn't have a defective AZ60 as I had very limited area of sub-bass to mid-bass. It was odd, very odd. Certain areas of the low end would hit pretty good but others was absolutely non-existent... Also I had quite alot of sibilance that couldn't be gotten rid of. Not with tips, not with EQ and trust me I tried for days with every trick in the book. Others in this group have reported none of what I heard so I am thinking maybe.... Maybe.... I just had a bad unit... Idk. I would like to give the AZ60 another try one of these days. All that said... The Nuratrue are beasts SQ wise. Very full sound, as full as you want it. Every area of the spectrum is represented very well. They just tick every box in the Audio Dept. The anc wasn't very good, the Hear thru (or whatever they call it) was not that great either. The app is okay but I'd prefer the AZ60's for everything else.



Agree with you that the Nuratrue's ANC isn't that good, so I just keep it off.

Besides the great SQ, the connection is the most stable and reliable of those in my collection, and the touch interface is the most responsive too.


----------



## Ceeluh7

xuan87 said:


> Agree with you that the Nuratrue's ANC isn't that good, so I just keep it off.
> 
> Besides the great SQ, the connection is the most stable and reliable of those in my collection, and the touch interface is the most responsive too.


Agreed. Ya I kept the ANC off as well, no point in keeping it on. The app isnt bad though and I really like the immersive mode... Such a full sound from the lows to the highs.


----------



## Phaethon

Update to my update - I’ve got quite the box going back. Spent the night with the FH9s. Don’t quite understand how such fantastic basses, mids and trebles can be so _boring… is this what is meant by good technicals? _ They just aren’t fun and the price is too steep to not have fun! The Mele, the OH10s, the Blessing2 are all fun listens. And that, for me, is what makes them great values


----------



## Ceeluh7

Phaethon said:


> Update to my update - I’ve got quite the box going back. Spent the night with the FH9s. Don’t quite understand how such fantastic basses, mids and trebles can be so _boring… is this what is meant by good technicals? _ They just aren’t fun and the price is too steep to not have fun! The Mele, the OH10s, the Blessing2 are all fun listens. And that, for me, is what makes them great values


Totally agree with that statement. Granted I have not tried the FH9 but.... I have had similar issues with "Amazing" iems that cost way too much. Ya know, it's amazing that you can buy a set for $50 that impresses you more than a $400 set. I find this all the time. The budget segment of iems is littered with great sound and it makes you pause a bit before buying the $500 iem. You are spot on man. I challenge the people in this group to get their hands on some budget killers. They may not always carry perfect details etc etc but tonality, dynamics can be found for much less. That being said the actual "Amazing" sets with a higher price tag are out there for sure. This also takes into account the fact that not everyone has the same taste and to many the Fiio FH9 is fantastic.


----------



## erockg

Phaethon said:


> Update to my update - I’ve got quite the box going back. Spent the night with the FH9s. Don’t quite understand how such fantastic basses, mids and trebles can be so _boring… is this what is meant by good technicals? _ They just aren’t fun and the price is too steep to not have fun! The Mele, the OH10s, the Blessing2 are all fun listens. And that, for me, is what makes them great values


Yep, I wanted to like those FH9 but sadly, they just didn't do it for me too.


----------



## erockg

bladefd said:


> Did anyone try both AZ60 and Nuratrue? I would be curious how the 2 compare. Not that I'm at the point of buying (yet), but I recall Nuratrue getting lots of traction here a few months ago, but it's kind of been quiet since. I feel AZ60 is getting the most talk here last couple month.


Sound on the Nuratrue is wonderful.  Really good.  In my experience here at home, the ANC was great.  Neither the AZ60 or Nuratrue ANC is spectacular.  Not really why I'd buy them.  I did return the NT and felt that the build quality was cheap.  Also, they hurt my ears.  They have a weird design on the inside and they don't insert like most TWS.  Works for some, just not me.  All the controls on them worked flawlessly.  Case is cheap and no wireless charging.  The AZ60 are a very well built TWS.  Solid and small case.  Buds fit me great, taps worked and the ANC was decent.  But they're not as great in the sound department.  They're no slouch by any means.  For me, I didn't like this sibilance my ears heard in the mids.  Some say they've fixed that, but who knows.  If you're looking for an all-around bud, I'd say go for the AZ60.  If you want that sound and the Nura proprietary stuff, give them a shot.  I had them both and returned them both.  Just found that other options were better for my world here.  They're not buds that I'd revisit any time soon unless they were a sick deal.


----------



## dmphile

Phaethon said:


> Update to my update - I’ve got quite the box going back. Spent the night with the FH9s. Don’t quite understand how such fantastic basses, mids and trebles can be so _boring… is this what is meant by good technicals? _ They just aren’t fun and the price is too steep to not have fun! The Mele, the OH10s, the Blessing2 are all fun listens. And that, for me, is what makes them great values


I agree with this 100% The type of sound I like doesn't need to be 100% clinical and technical. But it needs to be fun and make me emotionally involved. To me, that's just a feeling that it instills when you listen to some of your favourite tracks. To be clear, that's more than just graphs and technicals. If the sound lacks any type of musicality and 'emotion' that's just a dead end. Even now listening to the Timeless. Some tracks are amazing on it like the Inception soundtrack gives me goose bumps because of how low the sub-bass hits in it's score and then on other tracks, I'm kinda like... meh. I'm hoping the OH10's will fill that void all-around!


----------



## guitarizt

Ceeluh7 said:


> Honestly when I am using the Qudelix, Btr5, or the IFi Go Blu I don't see much of a difference at all from wired sound. Those devices are so nice man. As far as what do I prefer... If I am just sitting down I like to listen to my phone with the Fiio KA3 dongle dac, Shanling Ua2 dongle dac, or the Fiio M11 DAP or just throw on the IFi Go Blu or qudelix... I really switch it up alot. I will from time to time throw on some tws or the adapters  but if I really want to hear my music then I'd go with those mentioned above. Like I said I switch it up alot. The adapters get you alot closer than tws and are a good way to take in music between tws and something like the IFi. I tell you what though, the adapters are really nice. You really get nice replay from any of the adapters mentioned in this group. They are no slouches at all. If I did not have the IFi and qudelix and btr5 I would be as happy as can be with an adapter and an iem attached. As far as the Qudelix or something like it if there is the same issues as tws.... No.... No those things raise the bar. They will drive pretty much any iem very well.


Just tried BT for the first time with the btr5, I notice a diff with the timeless. It's more technical wired with wider soundstage. With BT it's more chill and reminds me of going from CD to FM. Not huge, and actually would prefer BT sometimes to not get as fatigued. I feel like the full planar sparkling technicalities come out wired with the btr5 versus BT. That being said, I still feel like the music doesn't totally mesh together as well, but it might be because the tonality and planar aren't my cup of tea. The arias are great on the other hand.


----------



## Phaethon

dmphile said:


> I agree with this 100% The type of sound I like doesn't need to be 100% clinical and technical. But it needs to be fun and make me emotionally involved. To me, that's just a feeling that it instills when you listen to some of your favourite tracks. To be clear, that's more than just graphs and technicals. If the sound lacks any type of musicality and 'emotion' that's just a dead end. Even now listening to the Timeless. Some tracks are amazing on it like the Inception soundtrack gives me goose bumps because of how low the sub-bass hits in it's score and then on other tracks, I'm kinda like... meh. I'm hoping the OH10's will fill that void all-around!


+100.  I need to add that’s why I stay on this thread. We regularly hear from people who are looking for a fun sound. TWS is not the vehicle for technicalities or a sterile tuning. In TWS, I am looking for the coloration that sounds best to me. The Fokus Pro comes closest (so far) to bridging the gap between IEM and TWS. Here in this thread people share the equipment that brings them fun and excitement. That’s why the conversation on IEM and TW adapters belongs here. To segregate this conversation to a different thread would make things a lot less fun.


----------



## sebek

I am very happy with Sony WF-1000XM4 + Spinfit CP360.

As you said above about the TWS: it won't be an extremely technical sound, but really very engaging and fun.


----------



## sebek (Jan 24, 2022)

sebek said:


> I am very happy with Sony WF-1000XM4 + Spinfit CP360.
> 
> As you said above about the TWS: it won't be an extremely technical sound, but really very engaging and fun.


I also tried WF-1000XM3 and Sennheiser Momentum True Wireless 2, both of which returned to Amazon.

With Sennheiser MTW2 I had problems with bluetooth. Difficult and never immediate connection, not very stable, with frequent falls. Maybe a faulty copy? Either way I wasn't thrilled with SQ.

WF-1000XM3 a very good sound with ANC activated, more bright than WF-1000XM4, with more lively treble.

Overall though the WF-1000XM4 sounds more organic and refined to my ears and it wins out for everything else too - shape, comfort, ANC, IPX4, battery life


----------



## Ceeluh7

guitarizt said:


> Just tried BT for the first time with the btr5, I notice a diff with the timeless. It's more technical wired with wider soundstage. With BT it's more chill and reminds me of going from CD to FM. Not huge, and actually would prefer BT sometimes to not get as fatigued. I feel like the full planar sparkling technicalities come out wired with the btr5 versus BT. That being said, I still feel like the music doesn't totally mesh together as well, but it might be because the tonality and planar aren't my cup of tea. The arias are great on the other hand.


Unfortunately it is prob the planar 7hz tonality. It isn't for everyone


----------



## Ceeluh7

Phaethon said:


> +100.  I need to add that’s why I stay on this thread. We regularly hear from people who are looking for a fun sound. TWS is not the vehicle for technicalities or a sterile tuning. In TWS, I am looking for the coloration that sounds best to me. The Fokus Pro comes closest (so far) to bridging the gap between IEM and TWS. Here in this thread people share the equipment that brings them fun and excitement. That’s why the conversation on IEM and TW adapters belongs here. To segregate this conversation to a different thread would make things a lot less fun.


Well said man. You convinced me


----------



## Ceeluh7

FYI... On Amazon US the Whizzer HE01 is on sale down to $56. A great deal on a great set. I think they'd be nice for an adapter. I think they are like $25 bucks off. One of the best Single DD sets under $100 without a doubt


----------



## assassin10000

sebek said:


> I also tried WF-1000XM3 and Sennheiser Momentum True Wireless 2, both of which returned to Amazon.
> 
> With Sennheiser MTW2 I had problems with bluetooth. Difficult and never immediate connection, not very stable, with frequent falls. Maybe a faulty copy? Either way I wasn't thrilled with SQ.
> 
> ...



Have you tried the new update? Supposed to be a bit more treble.

I haven't yet.


----------



## bladefd

xuan87 said:


> Discussions here tend to focus on the newer models. The AZ60 is newer than the Nuratrue so naturally we see more discussions of the former here.
> 
> I have the Nuratrue and out of my five TWS in rotation (Sony XM3, UE Fits, Marshall Mode II and Beo E8), I'll probably recommend the Nuratrue to be the best all-rounder TWS.
> 
> Just bought the Marshall Montif but the ETA is more than a month away, so in the meantime, I might do a quick reviews of them using the Sony XM3 as the baseline comparison model.





Ceeluh7 said:


> I had them both. For pure SQ the Nuratrue are the clear winners... For me. For everything else the AZ60 are just better, better built, better features. Not that Nuratrue lack... They have pretty much all features but just not implemented as well. I actually enjoyed them both. Two very nice sets. The Nura's sound pretty awesome man, but are odd looking and can fit a bit funny, however once you have them seated well... The sound is truly great for a tws. The AZ60 sound good but have all the features and are done well. I realize that doesn't help you... At all. I should add that I am not entirely sure that I didn't have a defective AZ60 as I had very limited area of sub-bass to mid-bass. It was odd, very odd. Certain areas of the low end would hit pretty good but others was absolutely non-existent... Also I had quite alot of sibilance that couldn't be gotten rid of. Not with tips, not with EQ and trust me I tried for days with every trick in the book. Others in this group have reported none of what I heard so I am thinking maybe.... Maybe.... I just had a bad unit... Idk. I would like to give the AZ60 another try one of these days. All that said... The Nuratrue are beasts SQ wise. Very full sound, as full as you want it. Every area of the spectrum is represented very well. They just tick every box in the Audio Dept. The anc wasn't very good, the Hear thru (or whatever they call it) was not that great either. The app is okay but I'd prefer the AZ60's for everything else.





erockg said:


> Sound on the Nuratrue is wonderful.  Really good.  In my experience here at home, the ANC was great.  Neither the AZ60 or Nuratrue ANC is spectacular.  Not really why I'd buy them.  I did return the NT and felt that the build quality was cheap.  Also, they hurt my ears.  They have a weird design on the inside and they don't insert like most TWS.  Works for some, just not me.  All the controls on them worked flawlessly.  Case is cheap and no wireless charging.  The AZ60 are a very well built TWS.  Solid and small case.  Buds fit me great, taps worked and the ANC was decent.  But they're not as great in the sound department.  They're no slouch by any means.  For me, I didn't like this sibilance my ears heard in the mids.  Some say they've fixed that, but who knows.  If you're looking for an all-around bud, I'd say go for the AZ60.  If you want that sound and the Nura proprietary stuff, give them a shot.  I had them both and returned them both.  Just found that other options were better for my world here.  They're not buds that I'd revisit any time soon unless they were a sick deal.



Alright, I guess both could be worth trying when the time comes. Build quality might push the Nuratrue out of consideration. It depends on how much it costs at the time and whether there is an updated version in couple of months. I will put both on my watchlist until then.

Thanks to all 3!


----------



## sebek

assassin10000 said:


> Have you tried the new update? Supposed to be a bit more treble.
> 
> I haven't yet.


Yes, I have firmware 1.3.3 and to me it sounds great without the need for EQ. I don't want to treble anymore.

WF-1000XM3 still had a brighter signature and with a hint of extra energy, from what I remember.

WF-1000XM4 sounds warmer and more relaxed even with the new firmware, but I like it the way it is.


----------



## Not so fat head

Thanks all…
Two new TWS to consider..
NuraTrue and AZ60…
I will say I’ve never been disappointed with any of my many Technics purchases..


----------



## Not so fat head

I like my XM3, but can only listen a short time, as just can’t find the comfort zone.
Weird ears I guess..


----------



## Phaethon

Ceeluh7 said:


> FYI... On Amazon US the Whizzer HE01 is on sale down to $56. A great deal on a great set. I think they'd be nice for an adapter. I think they are like $25 bucks off. One of the best Single DD sets under $100 without a doubt


Just ordered one. I’ve still got lots of drawers to fill with sub-$100 buds


----------



## Ceeluh7

Phaethon said:


> Just ordered one. I’ve still got lots of drawers to fill with sub-$100 buds


They are a great set. Lowest I've seen them


----------



## guitarizt (Jan 25, 2022)

Crin just came out with a first impressions vid where he gave the lea 5/5 stars. Said they're great for under 100, since he doesn't know the actual price. His mind is gonna be blown when he finds out their real price. Now I don't feel as crazy liking them over the timeless sometimes. The lea take eq extremely well, and dialed in they're great! I also just ordered the t3+. These sub 100 iem's are for real!



Ceeluh7 said:


> FYI... On Amazon US the Whizzer HE01 is on sale down to $56. A great deal on a great set. I think they'd be nice for an adapter. I think they are like $25 bucks off. One of the best Single DD sets under $100 without a doubt


Ugh, ur killing me. Tempted to order, lol! [edit] ugh, ordered


----------



## Ceeluh7

guitarizt said:


> Crin just came out with a first impressions vid where he gave the lea 5/5 stars. Said they're great for under 100, since he doesn't know the actual price. His mind is gonna be blown when he finds out their real price. Now I don't feel as crazy liking them over the timeless sometimes. The lea take eq extremely well, and dialed in they're great! I also just ordered the t3+. These sub 100 iem's are for real!
> 
> 
> Ugh, ur killing me. Tempted to order, lol! [edit] ugh, ordered


You are on a role with some of my favorites... I won't add any more options man... Trust me though... There's more. The t3+ is imo (which in my own mind is debatable) a better Moondrop Aria with a bit more energy up top but not alot at all, and a bit more low end. The Lea speaks for itself, I love tripowin sets. The Tc01 for $49 is a very nicely tuned set as well. I think you'll like the HE01. I freaking lost mine on vacation this year so I'll purchase another but the tuning is great.


----------



## actorlife

$18ish: UGREEN True Wireless Earbuds with Bluetooth 5.0, Wireless Earphones with Built-in Mic, CVC 8.0 Noise Cancelling Wireless Earbuds, Aptx HiFi Stereo with Deep Bass Bluetooth Headphones, Touch Control https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0851C5KL...t_i_RF18TMZT79ZK9J5KY534?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1


----------



## Tommy C

I have been spending some extended time with the Shure TW2 paired with the UE900 which are a dinosaur pretty much at this point and while the 4 BA drivers sound great they are missing something. Back in the day the UE900 (wired obviously) were my favourite IEMs, however the Shure TW2 paired with the SE215 Special Edition that came as a combo sound nicer to my ears and more fun for daily use and comfort is also much better, so while not the most detailed or technical they are still very nice sounding IEMs and do most things right and still beat other TWS in this price bracket. 

Due to some changes in life and personal situation I won’t be purchasing many IEMs and TWS in the near future so I’m really quite happy with my current rotation until something new and revolutionary pops up!


----------



## Ceeluh7

Tommy C said:


> I have been spending some extended time with the Shure TW2 paired with the UE900 which are a dinosaur pretty much at this point and while the 4 BA drivers sound great they are missing something. Back in the day the UE900 (wired obviously) were my favourite IEMs, however the Shure TW2 paired with the SE215 Special Edition that came as a combo sound nicer to my ears and more fun for daily use and comfort is also much better, so while not the most detailed or technical they are still very nice sounding IEMs and do most things right and still beat other TWS in this price bracket.
> 
> Due to some changes in life and personal situation I won’t be purchasing many IEMs and TWS in the near future so I’m really quite happy with my current rotation until something new and revolutionary pops up!


Nothing wrong with the 215 se. As long as you can find some enjoyment man, all that matters.


----------



## turbobb

If anyone is aware of a QDC (IEM side) to classic 2 pin (cable side) adapter, can you kindly post a link (or PM me)? I'm loathe to cut the sheath around the A09 Pro within the return period. I've searched but best I could find are 2 pin / MMCX (and vice versa). TIA!


----------



## assassin10000

turbobb said:


> If anyone is aware of a QDC (IEM side) to classic 2 pin (cable side) adapter, can you kindly post a link (or PM me)? I'm loathe to cut the sheath around the A09 Pro within the return period. I've searched but best I could find are 2 pin / MMCX (and vice versa). TIA!



https://a.aliexpress.com/_vZeoPo


----------



## turbobb

assassin10000 said:


> https://a.aliexpress.com/_vZeoPo


Thank you!!!


----------



## Juturna

My love for the Technics AZ60 only grows by the day, honestly. I feel like this is the most complete TWS I've used so far. I sure wish that the app had as much functionality as the Soundcore app (well, the app is fairly feature-rich but not as much and it's definitely not the most user-friendly when it comes to UI/UX), but except for that it's all good. They're far from perfect and I've seen other earbuds do some things better, but none that has delivered as smoothly as this. 

With that said I think my ears aren't as fond of the earbuds as I am, despite them being comfortable in my ears for the most part I feel like they're chafing my ears a bit just like the Devialet Gemini did (but those were worse) so I'm feeling some pain... Maybe I really should find a solid set of TWS's that sound good without being deep-fitting. I feel like most of the ones that don't go deep into your ear canals aren't as good even though they can be DECENT.


----------



## C_Lindbergh

Juturna said:


> My love for the Technics AZ60 only grows by the day, honestly. I feel like this is the most complete TWS I've used so far. I sure wish that the app had as much functionality as the Soundcore app (well, the app is fairly feature-rich but not as much and it's definitely not the most user-friendly when it comes to UI/UX), but except for that it's all good. They're far from perfect and I've seen other earbuds do some things better, but none that has delivered as smoothly as this.
> 
> With that said I think my ears aren't as fond of the earbuds as I am, despite them being comfortable in my ears for the most part I feel like they're chafing my ears a bit just like the Devialet Gemini did (but those were worse) so I'm feeling some pain... Maybe I really should find a solid set of TWS's that sound good without being deep-fitting. I feel like most of the ones that don't go deep into your ear canals aren't as good even though they can be DECENT.



Yeah, the AZ60 are so good for me that I barely visit this thread anymore!  

Maybe they will be the first TWS that I keep until the battery becomes significantly worse.


----------



## _mouse_

C_Lindbergh said:


> Yeah, the AZ60 are so good for me that I barely visit this thread anymore!
> 
> Maybe they will be the first TWS that I keep until the battery becomes significantly worse.


I love the sound but I can't connect in LDAC mode to my LG V40 (android 10) so I returning (sadly) them to my friend and then to Amazon


----------



## jant71 (Jan 26, 2022)

More stuff going up on the new Monster site...
DNA Go... https://www.monsterforever.com/product/dna-go
So far we know it is $99 has 8/24 hour battery, IPX5, and aptX Loseless







Comes with a bunch of tips more like the old Monster. Says wireless charging case but not sure.




With the overhaul and new site and direction it will be interesting to see if they are really going for it. Like Senn, Ety, and Westone lately moving under new brands, Monster is being run by Lifeworks Technology Group so best not to judge them just yet. If we are lucky they are trying to bring the old Monster back.


----------



## Tommy C

jant71 said:


> More stuff going up on the new Monster site...
> DNA Go... https://www.monsterforever.com/product/dna-go
> So far we know it is $99 has 8/24 hour battery, IPX5, and aptX Loseless
> 
> ...


I tried one Monster TWS the NC800 and it wasn’t bad. Actually the hardware is pretty nice and very reliable but it lacked software and app support. 
I would like to see if they are able to get that done.


----------



## pkcpga

Finally decided to upgrade to the Noble FoKus Pro, definitely a great upgrade from the Falcon Pro.  I tried the B&W PI7 and Sony xm1000mIV, they were returned in favor of just using my older Falcon Pro’s EQ’d.  The FoKus adds a bit more warmth to the Falcon’s without over doing it like the Sony’s.  And the mid range dip in the PI7’s was not to my liking, more V shaped sound signature then I was expecting from B&W.  Maybe the PI7’s just needs the extra BA that the FoKus has.  The FoKus not only sounds better then the others including the Falcon’s but also is more comfortable and looks better.  Definitely recommend the FoKus to anyone looking.


----------



## BooleanBones

pkcpga said:


> Finally decided to upgrade to the Noble FoKus Pro, definitely a great upgrade from the Falcon Pro.  I tried the B&W PI7 and Sony xm1000mIV, they were returned in favor of just using my older Falcon Pro’s EQ’d.  The FoKus adds a bit more warmth to the Falcon’s without over doing it like the Sony’s.  And the mid range dip in the PI7’s was not to my liking, more V shaped sound signature then I was expecting from B&W.  Maybe the PI7’s just needs the extra BA that the FoKus has.  The FoKus not only sounds better then the others including the Falcon’s but also is more comfortable and looks better.  Definitely recommend the FoKus to anyone looking.


Right there with you on your notes. It was earlier noted that they may get a bit choppy when out in the common areas of town. I have not had a chance to try that yet with mine. Different audio class than my others for sure, love em.


----------



## BooleanBones

Got my AKGs today (almost forgot I ordered them). This might be my best dollar to sound value on TWS yet. For 48$ these are a pretty decent little set.


----------



## darveniza

Just arrived from Japan Soundpeats Air 3 Pro


----------



## Ceeluh7

BooleanBones said:


> Got my AKGs today (almost forgot I ordered them). This might be my best dollar to sound value on TWS yet. For 48$ these are a pretty decent little set.


How is the volume level on these guys


----------



## erockg

BooleanBones said:


> Right there with you on your notes. It was earlier noted that they may get a bit choppy when out in the common areas of town. I have not had a chance to try that yet with mine. Different audio class than my others for sure, love em.


Well, I am outside on mile three of a walk with no buildings around me. My phone is in my left front pocket. I am dictating this message on an iPhone 13 pro using the Noble FoKus pro earbuds. Zero drop outs for 3 miles, took a phone call perfectly and my voice was loud and clear. No issues 3 miles in.  Now back to listening to some Van Halen in honor of Eddie‘s birthday.


----------



## BooleanBones

Ceeluh7 said:


> How is the volume level on these guys


They don't have quite the juice as my XM4s or AZ60s, but not bad. I will not be jamming on them at 65%, but probably closer to 85%. Maybe similar volume levels as the PI7s or EQs I would say.


----------



## erockg

BooleanBones said:


> They don't have quite the juice as my XM4s or AZ60s, but not bad. I will not be jamming on them at 65%, but probably closer to 85%. Maybe similar volume levels as the PI7s or EQs I would say.


They have some pretty damn good sub bass.  Especially for that steal!


----------



## BooleanBones

erockg said:


> They have some pretty damn good sub bass.  Especially for that steal!


I haven’t even messed with the EQ yet and have been satisfied. I keep telling myself this set will be great for yard work. I now have multiple yard work TWS and think why do I want to do more yard work


----------



## erockg

BooleanBones said:


> I haven’t even messed with the EQ yet and have been satisfied. I keep telling myself this set will be great for yard work. I now have multiple yard work TWS and think why do I want to do more yard work


Maybe you need another yard?


----------



## BooleanBones (Jan 26, 2022)

BooleanBones said:


> They don't have quite the juice as my XM4s or AZ60s, but not bad. I will not be jamming on them at 65%, but probably closer to 85%. Maybe similar volume levels as the PI7s or EQs I would say.


I take back this statement after playing with them a bit and adjusting the EQ some. These will break your ear drums and have plenty of giddyup  Not sure who's dumb  idea it was to put the right bud on the left in the case and left bud on the right. Annoying.


----------



## dweaver

C_Lindbergh said:


> Yeah, the AZ60 are so good for me that I barely visit this thread anymore!
> 
> Maybe they will be the first TWS that I keep until the battery becomes significantly worse.


LOL,I still visit, but my desire to buy something new is very low. My AZ60 are used pretty much daily


----------



## Not so fat head

Thanks big time all.  Because of you I got off my lazy tail, dug through some drawers, and found my Ultimate Ears IEM’s.  I haven’t warn them in years, been into over ear headphones.  Wow do these sound great!!  Now off to the dongle world 😃

Anyone know what the UE model number of these are.  I lost the box way back, and no indication on the units.


----------



## Ceeluh7

Not so fat head said:


> Thanks big time all.  Because of you I got off my lazy tail, dug through some drawers, and found my Ultimate Ears IEM’s.  I haven’t warn them in years, been into over ear headphones.  Wow do these sound great!!  Now off to the dongle world 😃
> 
> Anyone know what the UE model number of these are.  I lost the box way back, and no indication on the units.


I can personally endorse the Fiio Ka3 or the Shanling Ua2... Great dongle dacs and both for under $85. There are some killers out there...


----------



## Not so fat head

Ceeluh7 said:


> I can personally endorse the Fiio Ka3 or the Shanling Ua2... Great dongle dacs and both for under $85. There are some killers out there...


Thank you Ceeluh7


----------



## TK33

dweaver said:


> LOL,I still visit, but my desire to buy something new is very low. My AZ60 are used pretty much daily


Ha I know what you mean except I always seem to have a desire to buy something new and it never really goes away.  I think after I got the Shure TW2, I have had very little desire to buy new TWS.  The fact that people are putting up posts like yours about TWS tells you how far TWS has come.  Unfortunately for me, my desire to buy something just got redirected to new speakers and USB mic (realized for Zoom on my Windows laptop, TWS just cannot replace a good mic yet).  Once I get over those new toys, I am sure it will get directed toward TWS again and hopefully, by that time, some significant improvements will have been made.  In the meantime, I still find myself addicted to this thread as I find the evolution of this tech quite fun and the impressions and discussion here very interesting (whether it is TWS earbuds or adapters).


----------



## BooleanBones

TK33 said:


> Ha I know what you mean except I always seem to have a desire to buy something new and it never really goes away.  I think after I got the Shure TW2, I have had very little desire to buy new TWS.  The fact that people are putting up posts like yours about TWS tells you how far TWS has come.  Unfortunately for me, my desire to buy something just got redirected to new speakers and USB mic (realized for Zoom on my Windows laptop, TWS just cannot replace a good mic yet).  Once I get over those new toys, I am sure it will get directed toward TWS again and hopefully, by that time, some significant improvements will have been made.  In the meantime, I still find myself addicted to this thread as I find the evolution of this tech quite fun and the impressions and discussion here very interesting (whether it is TWS earbuds or adapters).


Not sure what you are looking to do with the speakers, but for my conference calls I use a Bose Soundlink Micro and it works awesome. Sound if great and mic is crystal clear and has range too. I use it both via bluetooth and USB on my work Windows laptop.


----------



## TK33

BooleanBones said:


> Not sure what you are looking to do with the speakers, but for my conference calls I use a Bose Soundlink Micro and it works awesome. Sound if great and mic is crystal clear and has range too. I use it both via bluetooth and USB on my work Windows laptop.


Speakers are just for nearfield music while working (need something in my ears for calls so I can drown out background noise at home).  I started getting ear pain from wearing IEMs, headphones or TWS for 10-12+ hours a day and at night for sleeping so thought I would put some speakers back on my desk to give my ears a break. I was using Galaxy Buds Live or Buds2 (whichever one was closer) for Zoom and calls for a while because you can swap left or right buds or go from one to two ears (or vice versa) seamlessly during a call and they connect to any previously paired device really quickly. I like the open design of the Galaxy Buds Live but I think the mic on the Buds2 sounded a little better to me.  Now I just use them for phone calls and use a Shure MV7 with an old pair of Shure SE425s as my in-ear monitors (mic has a headphone output that works really well).  I was told I sounded clearer than usual when I started using the MV7 (been using TWS for Zoom for two years now). TWS work too just to hear the call audio even when using an external mic (sounds better because you can choose "headphone" instead of "headset" in Windows for audio output).


----------



## BooleanBones

TK33 said:


> Speakers are just for nearfield music while working (need something in my ears for calls so I can drown out background noise at home).  I started getting ear pain from wearing IEMs, headphones or TWS for 10-12+ hours a day and at night for sleeping so thought I would put some speakers back on my desk to give my ears a break. I was using Galaxy Buds Live or Buds2 (whichever one was closer) for Zoom and calls for a while because you can swap left or right buds or go from one to two ears (or vice versa) seamlessly during a call and they connect to any previously paired device really quickly. I like the open design of the Galaxy Buds Live but I think the mic on the Buds2 sounded a little better to me.  Now I just use them for phone calls and use a Shure MV7 with an old pair of Shure SE425s as my in-ear monitors (mic has a headphone output that works really well).  I was told I sounded clearer than usual when I started using the MV7 (been using TWS for Zoom for two years now). TWS work too just to hear the call audio even when using an external mic (sounds better because you can choose "headphone" instead of "headset" in Windows for audio output).


Gotcha. Right there with you on earbud use all day. Good luck on your search, I just got done in my quest for office music speakers myself


----------



## bronco1015

darveniza said:


> So now that my ear treatment is done, Samsung earbuds will be stored and not used anymore. Cannot trust them until someone can shows that this unrelated, but I did do a test with new tips and within 5 minutes my ear were itching with the Samsund Pro earbuds
> 
> In any case played a bit with the Audio Technica ATH CKS50TW (AT) and the JVC-Victor HA 1000T ( JV) and just wanted to share a few items for now:
> 
> ...


I like the mids on the 1000T, but the treble is not great imo. Also these are really picky with eq in my experience. You still have them?


----------



## -sandro-

Hey guys, just bought a smartphone with no headphone jack so I'm looking for a budget iem that can support ldac or at least aptx hd, is there a website that independently reviews these budget BT iems? apparently they're all still reviewing wired iems only.
To give an indication: I like the Philips SHE3580 and Sony M1HC sound signature. Anything similar?


----------



## guitarizt

Ceeluh7 said:


> You are on a role with some of my favorites... I won't add any more options man... Trust me though... There's more. The t3+ is imo (which in my own mind is debatable) a better Moondrop Aria with a bit more energy up top but not alot at all, and a bit more low end. The Lea speaks for itself, I love tripowin sets. The Tc01 for $49 is a very nicely tuned set as well. I think you'll like the HE01. I freaking lost mine on vacation this year so I'll purchase another but the tuning is great.


That's why I love these cheap ones. I'm less stressed about losing them or whatever. Plus, they still sound great. I have the t3+ and he01 coming today, thanks for the deal alert. Giz told me in a comment he'd rather save for the variations level instead of going too much deeper down the 100- level, but man they all still sound so great! I think I'm going to try to save for the monarch mk2 level, though.

I've been curious, it seems like a lot of these iems are super new? Like the aria, starfield, mele, t3+ are all probably from 2021 release date? A quick google says aria march of 2021 on the amazon page. Was 2020 kind of meh in comparison? This seems like the golden age for iems.


----------



## guitarizt

Ceeluh7 said:


> I can personally endorse the Fiio Ka3 or the Shanling Ua2... Great dongle dacs and both for under $85. There are some killers out there...


How's the fiio ka3 vs the btr5? Asking more out of curiosity. I'm happy with the btr5, not even craving the ifi go blu so much. More interested in researching maybe a bigger dac/amp later for pc only, but maybe that wouldn't even sound better than the go blu?


----------



## Ceeluh7

guitarizt said:


> That's why I love these cheap ones. I'm less stressed about losing them or whatever. Plus, they still sound great. I have the t3+ and he01 coming today, thanks for the deal alert. Giz told me in a comment he'd rather save for the variations level instead of going too much deeper down the 100- level, but man they all still sound so great! I think I'm going to try to save for the monarch mk2 level, though.
> 
> I've been curious, it seems like a lot of these iems are super new? Like the aria, starfield, mele, t3+ are all probably from 2021 release date? A quick google says aria march of 2021 on the amazon page. Was 2020 kind of meh in comparison? This seems like the golden age for iems.


No man... There are great iems over the past 4-5 years. It's just that the newer models are easier to get your hands on. Also, the tech is getting better for sure. I do have older sets that are wonderful. Ya Giz Audio can afford the super expensive stuff and gets sent for review the super expensive stuff and I get what he is saying however the sets under 100 are very very good anymore. I think the $300 - $500 price point is where things cap off and then from there you will prob only hear incremental differences (in most cases). However that isn't always the case. No doubt that if you spend the money for the MK2 you will have a better iem, just, how much better and is it worth the amazing price jump? I don't know that. You'd be surprised how many plus $500 iems sound only slightly better than less expensive sets. Again though... There are very expensive sets which are absolutely stunning. Some sets you pay for the name and some are diamonds in the rough small brands that get discovered who make amazing iems for less money. I think the quality is getting better every year that goes by in the sub $200 and Def in the sub $100 and sub $50. In fact you'd be surprised what sub $30 sounds like anymore. In the end it's all what it is worth to you and how much satisfaction the price jump will give you. Listen to trusted reviewers who don't just praise everything to keep the companies review units coming in and aren't paid off. I like Giz Audio and he is passionate about audio however what I like doesn't really line up with him all the time. Having that knowledge of what he likes helps me understand where he is coming from. I line up closely in what I like to BGGAR (Bad Guy Good Audio) on YouTube. His Rec's normally line up darn near perfect with me. There are a bunch others but it helps to know the reviewer.


----------



## Ceeluh7

guitarizt said:


> How's the fiio ka3 vs the btr5? Asking more out of curiosity. I'm happy with the btr5, not even craving the ifi go blu so much. More interested in researching maybe a bigger dac/amp later for pc only, but maybe that wouldn't even sound better than the go blu?


Bigger desktop setups offer more raw power and can Def sound better. The ka3 is a bit better. A bit more highly resolving as you are going to a wired setup and not relying on the choke point of wireless. Truthfully though the BTR5 is very nice. You can find with wired setups proper dimensions and soundstage, imaging, dynamics etc etc. Of course you also have to take into account the tonality of these dacs which will certainly alter what your iem sounds like. Source makes a big difference. The ka3 is tuned a bit better than the BTR5 imo. Ifi makes good desktop dac/amps among a bunch of other companies competing for your business. Look at reviews for desktop setups for pc and the rabbit hole will draw you towards the best for your money. I got rid of desktop units for Daps and bt dongles, usbc dongles and adapters and tws. I like to be mobile and can't stand just sitting in front of a computer but many people love that soo... It's whatever you like man.


----------



## Ceeluh7

guitarizt said:


> How's the fiio ka3 vs the btr5? Asking more out of curiosity. I'm happy with the btr5, not even craving the ifi go blu so much. More interested in researching maybe a bigger dac/amp later for pc only, but maybe that wouldn't even sound better than the go blu?


Another thing, I am absolutely satisfied with the IFi, qudelix 5k, btr5 as well as the adapters and even tws. I don't personally miss the stationary desktop setups. I do think the IFi Go Blu is better sonically than the BTR5 or qudelix but the difference is minimal. It's the form factor that I love with the volume dial and x-bass and x-space button. It doesn't have an app like the other two but you can upgrade it thru a third party app. I like the Fiio Ka3 just hair more than the Shanling Ua2 as well. Now as far as dongle dacs go there are so many that it'll make you dizzy and many very high quality ones which imo rival desktop setups. The drawback being they draw from the phone battery. That being said..... Shanling is making a unit called the Ua5 that has its own battery and is going to be a BEAST. it will retail for $235 and will come out soon. So possibly look for that or read up on it, as it may be a good in between before you jump into desktop stuff. Just a thought


----------



## Ceeluh7

guitarizt said:


> How's the fiio ka3 vs the btr5? Asking more out of curiosity. I'm happy with the btr5, not even craving the ifi go blu so much. More interested in researching maybe a bigger dac/amp later for pc only, but maybe that wouldn't even sound better than the go blu?


Sorry, one last thing. There are much smarter people in this hobby than myself... Lol. I'm just an enthusiast type audio geek. Ha. Also I only carry my opinion so know that there are others who will disagree whole heartedly with me and the truth is... They are right. I'm right too. Nobody is wrong in this hobby because it is all subjective. Some have just had a little more time weeding thru the brush. In a couple Months youll have a very good idea of what is out there, that is how the hobby goes.


----------



## scubaphish (Jan 27, 2022)

PSA: maybe y’all get the emails, but master and dynamics is selling the MW07 Plus for 40% off…so 149. Thought I’d share as I consider the purchase myself…going through some old reviews

Edit: oh , no AAC. How strange and sad


----------



## Caipirina

sebek said:


> I am very happy with Sony WF-1000XM4 + Spinfit CP360.
> 
> As you said above about the TWS: it won't be an extremely technical sound, but really very engaging and fun.


Exactly my combo! That and then paired with TempoTec V1A player for 990LDAC.


----------



## Caipirina

darveniza said:


> Just arrived from Japan Soundpeats Air 3 Pro


Curious to hear your impressions, reviews on Amazon.jp seem rather mixed. Some indicate weird glitches that could be touch sensor related …


----------



## erockg

scubaphish said:


> I’d love for you to do it, if for no other (selfish) reason than to hear your thoughts in comparison to Fokus just on sound.


Soooo, yeah, I did use that gift card and get the Gemini again.  They still sound great, but the Fokus is definitely the better bud.  You really can hear the different drivers separating that sound.  That said, the ANC is truly great on those Gemini IMO.  I do remember that being the case for me.  Soundstage is possibly a tiny bit wider on the Gemini.  Unsure there.  They really are two different sounding buds.  Fit goes to the Gemini.  They're so light.  Tough call here as I'm not sure I _need_ the Gemini, but I want them.  These days I seem to be picking up my Clairvoyance with the Fiio adapter every day.  Even used the Clairvoyance/Fiio setup on a walk while testing the Fokus outdoors.  Fokus had no issues and the Fiio UTWS5 adapter (exchanged a bunk pair) worked perfectly for music and calls outdoors.  

Where does that leave the poor little Gemini?    Decisions decisions.


----------



## Ceeluh7

scubaphish said:


> PSA: maybe y’all get the emails, but master and dynamics is selling the MW07 Plus for 40% off…so 149. Thought I’d share as I consider the purchase myself…going through some old reviews
> 
> Edit: oh , no AAC. How strange and sad


Thanks man. Never tried the mw07 plus. Wonder how it compares to the mw08


----------



## erockg

Ceeluh7 said:


> Thanks man. Never tried the mw07 plus. Wonder how it compares to the mw08


In my experience, the ANC and fit is muuuuuuch better on the MW08 and MW08 Sport.  I was a big fan of the MW08 Sport with the wireless charging and the kevlar case.  But, I had a terrible experience with the firmware update screwing up my mic on the 8s.  Price is good for the 7 but the fit and the wings killed my ears.  Sound is great.  Lower volume than you're used to.  Cases scratch, fingerprint magnets but the build quality is just top notch!   I just read they're putting out new cans the MW75.


----------



## Slowhand

C_Lindbergh said:


> Yeah, the AZ60 are so good for me that I barely visit this thread anymore!
> 
> Maybe they will be the first TWS that I keep until the battery becomes significantly worse.



How would you compare them to the Cambridge MTs?


----------



## BooleanBones

Slowhand said:


> How would you compare them to the Cambridge MTs?


Much less problematic for sure. In my opinion, the sound is more refined on the AZs, but maybe that is just me. And of course, the AZs have more features than the MT.


----------



## Slowhand

BooleanBones said:


> Much less problematic for sure. In my opinion, the sound is more refined on the AZs, but maybe that is just me. And of course, the AZs have more features than the MT.


Yeah, I can imagine they are lol. Specs are also fairly straight forward, mostly curious about difference in SQ/tuning and whether the AZ60's are more bulky in ear or not.


----------



## BooleanBones

Slowhand said:


> Yeah, I can imagine they are lol. Specs are also fairly straight forward, mostly curious about difference in SQ/tuning and whether the AZ60's are more bulky in ear or not.


I would not say more bulky, but they do fit differently. The AZ reach further in your ear canal than the MTs. I find them both comfortable, although it took me a little to get used to the AZs reaching further in the ear.


----------



## Ceeluh7

erockg said:


> In my experience, the ANC and fit is muuuuuuch better on the MW08 and MW08 Sport.  I was a big fan of the MW08 Sport with the wireless charging and the kevlar case.  But, I had a terrible experience with the firmware update screwing up my mic on the 8s.  Price is good for the 7 but the fit and the wings killed my ears.  Sound is great.  Lower volume than you're used to.  Cases scratch, fingerprint magnets but the build quality is just top notch!   I just read they're putting out new cans the MW75.


I can always rely on you Bruh. The volume.... It's gotta have head room with me. I don't listen at super high volumes but I want enough to reach full dynamics & fidelity. These have beryllium drivers and so it may take awhile before they burn in and actually sound as Intended. Kind of tempted but also it just may be another that is... Meh


----------



## erockg

Ceeluh7 said:


> I can always rely on you Bruh. The volume.... It's gotta have head room with me. I don't listen at super high volumes but I want enough to reach full dynamics & fidelity. These have beryllium drivers and so it may take awhile before they burn in and actually sound as Intended. Kind of tempted but also it just may be another that is... Meh


Happens to me too.  I see the great price and jump.  That said, they're the old model, been out for ages.  The ANC is weak.  They're sexy, but ya know.  I'd save your $150 and get something else.  But that is just me, a revolving door of earbuds.  Ugh.  Down to three TWS buds in my collection right now (not including IEMs).


----------



## Ceeluh7

Slowhand said:


> Yeah, I can imagine they are lol. Specs are also fairly straight forward, mostly curious about difference in SQ/tuning and whether the AZ60's are more bulky in ear or not.


Between the two the MT... To me... Have a more natural tuning. The MT's are special, they have a more natural approach with lifted low end and lifted highs yet the Mids aren't pushed back as much. They do have a graininess about them with little artifacts floating around while listening, you prob don't even notice. To me the more resolving set is the AZ60, without a doubt. Does the AZ60 sound better.... For me... No. Is the AZ60 a great set with crazy features and build quality... Yep. You prob know that the MT's have issues as well. Granted my set has been perfect since they were released and I don't have those problems but they are out there for sure as my good set is obv not the norm. It is debatable but I like the tuning better on the MT's. That isn't to say that the AZ60 is tuned badly at all. If I were to eliminate the issues I had with it.. Sibilance, odd bass and call that just a fluke, a bad set... Then I would say the AZ60 without a doubt is the better sou ding set.


----------



## erockg

Slowhand said:


> Yeah, I can imagine they are lol. Specs are also fairly straight forward, mostly curious about difference in SQ/tuning and whether the AZ60's are more bulky in ear or not.


IMO the MT sounded better, but the bugs... ugh... they drove me nuts.  Sad.  The AZ60 fit me perfect and everything just worked.  Very refined piece of machinery.


----------



## Ceeluh7

erockg said:


> Happens to me too.  I see the great price and jump.  That said, they're the old model, been out for ages.  The ANC is weak.  They're sexy, but ya know.  I'd save your $150 and get something else.  But that is just me, a revolving door of earbuds.  Ugh.  Down to three TWS buds in my collection right now (not including IEMs).


You and I seem to have similar thoughts on tws, I can trust your thoughts for sure. Your right... Older set, prob not worth the $150 when better stuff is out there. Appreciate it man


----------



## erockg

Ceeluh7 said:


> You and I seem to have similar thoughts on tws, I can trust your thoughts for sure. Your right... Older set, prob not worth the $150 when better stuff is out there. Appreciate it man


Right now, I'm on a quest to fine the smallest TWS.  Something like the Earin M-2 were.  I'm rockin those Marshal Motif ANC, but want something smaller.


----------



## BooleanBones

Ceeluh7 said:


> Between the two the MT... To me... Have a more natural tuning.


Cambridge does a great job tuning for sure. I loved almost everything with the MTs. Wish they would come out with a more stabile version with a few more features. Think the MTs are down to 89$ last I saw. (maybe something coming)


----------



## Ceeluh7

erockg said:


> Right now, I'm on a quest to fine the smallest TWS.  Something like the Earin M-2 were.  I'm rockin those Marshal Motif ANC, but want something smaller.


I'll be on the look out.


----------



## Sam L (Jan 27, 2022)

TK33 said:


> Speakers are just for nearfield music while working (need something in my ears for calls so I can drown out background noise at home).  I started getting ear pain from wearing IEMs, headphones or TWS for 10-12+ hours a day and at night for sleeping so thought I would put some speakers back on my desk to give my ears a break. I was using Galaxy Buds Live or Buds2 (whichever one was closer) for Zoom and calls for a while because you can swap left or right buds or go from one to two ears (or vice versa) seamlessly during a call and they connect to any previously paired device really quickly. I like the open design of the Galaxy Buds Live but I think the mic on the Buds2 sounded a little better to me.  Now I just use them for phone calls and use a Shure MV7 with an old pair of Shure SE425s as my in-ear monitors (mic has a headphone output that works really well).  I was told I sounded clearer than usual when I started using the MV7 (been using TWS for Zoom for two years now). TWS work too just to hear the call audio even when using an external mic (sounds better because you can choose "headphone" instead of "headset" in Windows for audio output).


i pretty much mimic your use case and used to use bookshelf speakers for years for my computer audio, when i'm not using iems, headphones, earbuds or tws. Problem was the sheers size of all the components sitting on my desk. I gave my speakers to my kids and have been happy, for years, with the bose musicmonitor. decent sound for such a small size.

edit: totally not worth the price, but for my desk setup, i prefer a small footprint over value.


----------



## Ceeluh7

BooleanBones said:


> Cambridge does a great job tuning for sure. I loved almost everything with the MTs. Wish they would come out with a more stabile version with a few more features. Think the MTs are down to 89$ last I saw. (maybe something coming)


Yes on Amazon they were $89. I adore the tuning on them. They are to me like the Blon Bl03 of the tws world, slightly more natural sound. The Camb m1+ is similar in tuning. Actually they are spitting images with slight differences. I own both just because of this. They aren't perfect at all but for the price, if your set isn't a dudd then they are so nice. Also the MT's seal so well in my ears I promise they rival anc sets with passive noise isolation.


----------



## bladefd

Ceeluh7 said:


> Yes on Amazon they were $89. I adore the tuning on them. They are to me like the Blon Bl03 of the tws world, slightly more natural sound. The Camb m1+ is similar in tuning. Actually they are spitting images with slight differences. I own both just because of this. They aren't perfect at all but for the price, if your set isn't a dudd then they are so nice. Also the MT's seal so well in my ears I promise they rival anc sets with passive noise isolation.


Not only do the MTs seal well, but they also don't go deep into the ear canal, which I like a lot. They sit at the edge of your ear. I am not a fan of earbuds that go deep in the canal. Comfort-wise and sound-wise, the MT are awesome. Just the damn charging issue drives me nuts, and I stopped recommending them due to that one single issue.


----------



## Ceeluh7

bladefd said:


> Not only do the MTs seal well, but they also don't go deep into the ear canal, which I like a lot. They sit at the edge of your ear. I am not a fan of earbuds that go deep in the canal. Comfort-wise and sound-wise, the MT are awesome. Just the damn charging issue drives me nuts, and I stopped recommending them due to that one single issue.


Ya it makes them hard to rec for sure. I had no idea so many were having issues with the MT before I started checking out this thread. I haven't had any issues with mine and I got them the first week they were available. Unfortunately Cambridge shot themselves in the foot as it is obviously an issue that many are having. That being said I totally agree with you as forn me these are prob the most comfortable pair for me that I own. Here to hoping for a similar tuned set in the future that has no issues. Cambridge just tunes thier sets so well...


----------



## C_Lindbergh (Jan 27, 2022)

Slowhand said:


> How would you compare them to the Cambridge MTs?



Can't A/B test them in regards to sound, but I think the MT's might have had a tiny edge if I could.

But in every other regard the AZ60 is in an entire different leauge compared to the MTs, the latter is still a bit problematic as well even after all software updates.

To me the AZ60 is the first set of TWS that's got all the features (expect wireless charging) and that actually works wonderfully, every TWS I've tried before have either lacked certain features, or have had annoying bugs/issues.

A few examples are:

Senn MTW2:  Overall a pretty great set, but the ANC was totally lacklustre
Sony WFXM4: Overall also a great set, but the earbuds were incredibly bulky, thus i found them to be uncomfortable...


----------



## Sam L

anyone compare the soundcore liberty 3 pro's to the az60?


----------



## BooleanBones

C_Lindbergh said:


> The EAH-A800 looks really interesting, even tho I don't have that much use of a pair of wireless over-ears.
> 
> Is there a seperate thread for them?


I couldn't resist. Mine will be here next week. I love all headphones equally


----------



## jant71 (Jan 27, 2022)

Not so fat head said:


> Thanks big time all.  Because of you I got off my lazy tail, dug through some drawers, and found my Ultimate Ears IEM’s.  I haven’t warn them in years, been into over ear headphones.  Wow do these sound great!!  Now off to the dongle world 😃
> 
> Anyone know what the UE model number of these are.  I lost the box way back, and no indication on the units.


The Super.fi 5EB. The first hybrid consumer model btw. Ety and Westone still never followed up. Shure finally came up with one recently. Of course the cooler and more daring UE is the one that doesn't really make normal consumer earphones anymore. Shame. At least they made a TWS. Were they still Jerry Harvey based we would have some FoKus competition I am sure.


----------



## darveniza

Caipirina said:


> Curious to hear your impressions, reviews on Amazon.jp seem rather mixed. Some indicate weird glitches that could be touch sensor related …


Quick Follow up:

Stem type TWS earphones
Small case extremely pocket friendly (reminds me a bit of the VIVO TWS1)
Easy to remove and replace the earphones
Material finish is not fingerprint magnet but also they are not slippery

Sensor control on the earphone "head" and not the stem. Pretty easy and very good response. 
Use the large tops and I got great passive noise isolation

No app , so no EQ,etc. They do connect pretty quickly which is great if you are answering a call but things are in your pocket and in their case 

Sound tuning is classical V with what I think is a boosted bass

Mic work well and no complaints when on calls

Still testing ANC, they do work very well and really drain a lot. Which a their price point surprised me. It could be that the ANC is fairly good but as I did achieve great passive isolation this may magnify effect

I think these are great but at this price point


----------



## Tjdx (Jan 27, 2022)

Hey guys, been reading this thread for ages, finally I did take advantage of a low price + a coupon (with prime) on the Earfun Free Mini (pay only USD 12.99 a steal) even with the shipping / insurance etc to my country. This are for my wife (see what I did here, now I can buy any TWS with no remorse muahahaha) anyway I just connected them to my wife S21+ and I have to say this little and cute TWS sound very decent but I was finding the volume kinda low (my wife was very satisfied with the volume anyway) I would play around a little bit more with other tips and the fitting.

The passive isolation is very good and they fit super nice and they are comfy (lightweight).

If any one have any tip recommendation for this pair I will be gratefull, I have yet to try them longer (If I can get them out of wife ears) but for the price they are very nice.

My only complain for now is that the case and buds are a fingerprints magnets and I hate to see this kind of stuff shiny or with marks (my OCD kicking in).

Btw Im not using the usb cable that come with this just using a relative cheap but longer and braided cable, the second picture was just to get a size comparision.


----------



## Aramaki (Jan 27, 2022)

Just got these in today, pretty impressive sound for $50 (using with Azla Crystals, no EQ).


----------



## cresny

I received the LETSHUOER S12s today, so it's finally able to put the FIIO UTWS5s ( I'm not shouting here, just happen to have shouty-named gear) to the test. I won't go into the buds except to say they are as advertised on their dedicated thread, and are definitely keepers. The two concerns I had with the adapters were power and comfort. It's plenty loud about the 60% volume range, and I'm surprised how unnoticeable the ear hooks feel. These won't be replacing my Geminis when I'm out and about because I think I'd damage my hearing trying to compensate for the lack of ANC in the city, but at home I think these will be it for a while. Very pleased!


----------



## Not so fat head

jant71 said:


> The Super.fi 5EB. The first hybrid consumer model btw. Ety and Westone still never followed up. Shure finally came up with one recently. Of course the cooler and more daring UE is the one that doesn't really make normal consumer earphones anymore. Shame. At least they made a TWS. Were they still Jerry Harvey based we would have some FoKus competition I am sure.


Thank you Jant71…
Getting some great suggestions


----------



## Not so fat head

Maxell TWS I picked up last week were completely unstable.  Tried on 3 different devices, all with significant BT drops…
How can something like this make it out of development..
For the brief seconds it would work, the sound wasn’t worth it…
These want back..


----------



## musicphotolife (Jan 27, 2022)

I don't see any discussion on the LG TONE Free FP9 so I'd like to share my experience here. I reviewed it recently and it ended up as my new favourite true-wireless.






Features of FP9

ANC and Ambient Sound modes
Meridian EQ Presets
*Unique *UVnano kills germs while charging
*Unique *Built-in Bluetooth Transmitter in the Charging Case (Plug and Wireless Mode)
*Unique *Whispering Mode
*Unique *Voice Alert (read out messages)
Supports Game Mode (low latency)
Supports Windows Swift Pair and Google Fast Pair
IPX4 Water Protection






It's my favourite not because of the sonic accuracy or ANC quality, but because of the intuitive experience of using it. I find it comfortable to use and the touch response is accurate, it auto-switches to mono when one earbud is removed from the ears, able to customise the controls. Plus, the whispering mode lets you make calls with high clarity. I find the Meridian EQ very usable and achieves a 3D sound staging without over-processing.


----------



## bronco1015

musicphotolife said:


> I don't see any discussion on the LG TONE Free FP9 so I'd like to share my experience here. I reviewed it recently and it ended up as my new favourite true-wireless.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I couldn't agree more. I've been out of this thread for a while, so was excited to see your post about these. i got a review unit back in september and they are fantastic. One of the more underrated TWEs imo though the ANC was weak to me. Same on the FP5 and FP8 when I reviewed those as well.
i was impressed with the range of the FP9's transmitter function. i plugged them straight in to my desktop setup, and could walk through my entire apartment without them breaking up at all.


----------



## assassin10000

erockg said:


> Right now, I'm on a quest to fine the smallest TWS.  Something like the Earin M-2 were.  I'm rockin those Marshal Motif ANC, but want something smaller.


Didn't you have those z sleep buds at one point?

How were they size wise compared to the M-2?


----------



## Juturna (Jan 28, 2022)

Just joined the Android world again after two years strictly on iOS, so I'm using my Technics AZ60 with LDAC now, and I feel like I'm going crazy with the fact that they seem to sound pretty different now... Same EQ settings and everything, but the sound seems to be a lot wider (which is generally good) but I feel like some albums just sound worse and less impactful, especially heavier music like deathcore/death metal stuff. Not that it's what I listen to the most but it's just a weird thing. It's a bit like the sound feels pushed more to the sides which leaves the "middle" of the sound image sounding slightly more hollow instead of just packing a real punch.

Edit: Could this be because I'm using Apple Music? Thinking that it has something to do with it delivering music in AAC which then has to be converted to LDAC? Don't know too much about codecs except the fact that Android usually only supports SBC, LDAC and all the AptX variants.


----------



## bronco1015

assassin10000 said:


> Didn't you have those z sleep buds at one point?
> 
> How were they size wise compared to the M-2?


I thought of the Zbuds when I saw that post as well. I didn't own the M2 or use them, but I do have the Zbuds and they are by far the smallest twe i've ever seen or owned.


----------



## bronco1015

BooleanBones said:


> I couldn't resist. Mine will be here next week. I love all headphones equally


I think I want those. Please share impressions once you get them.


----------



## erockg

assassin10000 said:


> Didn't you have those z sleep buds at one point?
> 
> How were they size wise compared to the M-2?


They're really only good at being sleep buds and they're much smaller than the Earin M-2.  I actually had to RMA mine this week due to fast battery drain in one of the buds.  They're super tiny for sleeping, do play music.  They can't really do anything else very well.  No mic, no touch controls, just sound.  Like how TWS started


----------



## jant71 (Jan 28, 2022)

erockg said:


> Right now, I'm on a quest to fine the smallest TWS.  Something like the Earin M-2 were.  I'm rockin those Marshal Motif ANC, but want something smaller.


Do it. Get the Jabra Enhance Plus! Not as easy as just opening the wallet though.


----------



## erockg

jant71 said:


> Do it. Get the Jabra Enhance Plus!


They're not out yet!


----------



## guitarizt

Ceeluh7 said:


> Sorry, one last thing. There are much smarter people in this hobby than myself... Lol. I'm just an enthusiast type audio geek. Ha. Also I only carry my opinion so know that there are others who will disagree whole heartedly with me and the truth is... They are right. I'm right too. Nobody is wrong in this hobby because it is all subjective. Some have just had a little more time weeding thru the brush. In a couple Months youll have a very good idea of what is out there, that is how the hobby goes.


I read your other posts, thx. I'll just quote this one for less clutter. I think we prob have similar tastes which helps cause I feel like I have really weird tastes for music compared to someone like crin or popular opinion. I like a warm v-shaped mid bass prob, hate harman curve (too trebly), and think I differ greatly from what crin likes. I'm surprised you like hbb since I'm not the hugest fan of the mele, but I'll have to use it more and watch more of his vids. That being said, I just ordered the olina. Super excited about that one!

Also I super love the lea. It just sounds amazing eq'ed. A solid recommendation by you, and I can't believe there's not more hype around it.

I'll keep my eye out for the sanling ua5 when it comes out. I'll let other people be the guinea pigs first. Right now I'm finding I don't mind the wired to pc thing. It's worth it for the sound quality with the btr5. Going wireless I usually grab my super super cheap letscom's or galaxy pros. BTR5 wired to the phone is great, though. I still do that a decent amount.

I just found Michael Bruce's yt channel today from a HBB video recommendation. I think I might be more in line with what he likes. He likes the tanya and blon 03, but for higher end he likes the oxygen over the timeless. His review on the timeless was really close to my thoughts on it as well, and he's one of the only people I've seen say the timeless is power hungry which I super agree with.

The tanya and blon 03 scare me off not having detachable cables, and I wonder if it's even worth the money with all that I have so far. Maybe I should just go for the oxygen or variations and stop messing around at the lower tier levels. Variations might be the sweet spot. But then there's the oracle as well. Ugh. lol


----------



## jant71

erockg said:


> They're not out yet!


In a hurry are we?  You could still try the Urbanista Lisbon. They are getting good reviews and are 30 day returns from the site.


----------



## erockg (Jan 28, 2022)

jant71 said:


> In a hurry are we?  You could still try the Urbanista Lisbon. They are getting good reviews and are 30 day returns from the site.


That’s true. I couldn’t remember the name of those. I think they were on QVC for a really good deal. I’ll do some research.

Edit:  Sold!  These were the buds I was looking for and I just couldn’t remember the name but thanks to you I just bought them off Amazon.  They were cheaper than Urbanista’s site.


----------



## guitarizt

Well I'm going further and further into what feels like insanity. On a whim, tried lea in left ear and aria in right ear. My fav combo. Works so well for live band type music. I feel like I get more information for the sound and my brain can't tell the diff that there's diff iem's in each ear. The soundstage feels wider, more like I'm there. Drums sound way better. It's way easier for me to tell what guitar gear people are using. I think it has to do with the more information thing from diff frequencies, idk. The music feels more alive. It reminds me of how distorted guitar can sound better running through two diff amps at the same time and even using a clean channel on one side.

The downside is that typical pop electronic music and edm stuff can be disorientating and to me doesn't sound as good as just using the all aria or all lea. I've even tried using aria on left and lea on right, but lea on left and aria on right sound best to me. Bye bye sanity!


----------



## Ceeluh7

guitarizt said:


> I read your other posts, thx. I'll just quote this one for less clutter. I think we prob have similar tastes which helps cause I feel like I have really weird tastes for music compared to someone like crin or popular opinion. I like a warm v-shaped mid bass prob, hate harman curve (too trebly), and think I differ greatly from what crin likes. I'm surprised you like hbb since I'm not the hugest fan of the mele, but I'll have to use it more and watch more of his vids. That being said, I just ordered the olina. Super excited about that one!
> 
> Also I super love the lea. It just sounds amazing eq'ed. A solid recommendation by you, and I can't believe there's not more hype around it.
> 
> ...


Ha... There's almost too much, which is a good thing. I do think that something like Variations is a sweet spot as well... Exactly. Thier are those sets that will blow you away in different price points though. Yes... Timeless need power... Absolutely... It needs good clean power. I mentioned this in an earlier post that you can play the Timeless on lesser power yet it will not shine like it is supposed to. Anyways, truthfully man, I do like different sound signatures at times. I try to get different sets which don't all sound the same... I don't perfectly align with hbb but I know that a rec from him is based on music and what he hears. Micheal Bruce also... Dude knows what he is talking about. Also like you I will wait for reviews on the Ua5 but I own the Ua2 and it is a bonafied beauty with great SQ so I'm thinking ua5 will be special. Hey man, that made me laugh this morning seeing you int he Facebook group... The chifi audio reviews group is an awesome one. It is run by JASON Lewis of "Chifi audio review" YouTube channel. You can pick up alot from there. Cool man


----------



## Ceeluh7

guitarizt said:


> Well I'm going further and further into what feels like insanity. On a whim, tried lea in left ear and aria in right ear. My fav combo. Works so well for live band type music. I feel like I get more information for the sound and my brain can't tell the diff that there's diff iem's in each ear. The soundstage feels wider, more like I'm there. Drums sound way better. It's way easier for me to tell what guitar gear people are using. I think it has to do with the more information thing from diff frequencies, idk. The music feels more alive. It reminds me of how distorted guitar can sound better running through two diff amps at the same time and even using a clean channel on one side.
> 
> The downside is that typical pop electronic music and edm stuff can be disorientating and to me doesn't sound as good as just using the all aria or all lea. I've even tried using aria on left and lea on right, but lea on left and aria on right sound best to me. Bye bye sanity!


Haha! Ya I've played around doing that as well. I've seen posts about doing it and tried... Not really my jam but I'm sure you could come up with some nice combos.


----------



## mikp

_mouse_ said:


> I love the sound but I can't connect in LDAC mode to my LG V40 (android 10) so I returning (sadly) them to my friend and then to Amazon


did you find a solution? got the g7 so hesitant to try the az60.

Maybe it is just ldac option and case size, but has anyone done a sound comparison between the az60 and mtw2? Just got the "new gadget" itch. Told myself to wait for a tws with ldac AND aptx


----------



## LordToneeus

guitarizt said:


> I read your other posts, thx. I'll just quote this one for less clutter. I think we prob have similar tastes which helps cause I feel like I have really weird tastes for music compared to someone like crin or popular opinion. I like a warm v-shaped mid bass prob, hate harman curve (too trebly), and think I differ greatly from what crin likes. I'm surprised you like hbb since I'm not the hugest fan of the mele, but I'll have to use it more and watch more of his vids. That being said, I just ordered the olina. Super excited about that one!
> 
> Also I super love the lea. It just sounds amazing eq'ed. A solid recommendation by you, and I can't believe there's not more hype around it.
> 
> ...


My blon 03 do have a detachable two-in cable...


----------



## Ceeluh7

guitarizt said:


> I read your other posts, thx. I'll just quote this one for less clutter. I think we prob have similar tastes which helps cause I feel like I have really weird tastes for music compared to someone like crin or popular opinion. I like a warm v-shaped mid bass prob, hate harman curve (too trebly), and think I differ greatly from what crin likes. I'm surprised you like hbb since I'm not the hugest fan of the mele, but I'll have to use it more and watch more of his vids. That being said, I just ordered the olina. Super excited about that one!
> 
> Also I super love the lea. It just sounds amazing eq'ed. A solid recommendation by you, and I can't believe there's not more hype around it.
> 
> ...


OH ya I second that... The Blon 03 does have 2 pin cables. I have had it for a couple years and it is still one of my favorite budget sets. It has a very odd fit, though for me it fits perfect. The 03 has one of the most natural tonalities out there thus bringing it to legend status... Great set


----------



## _mouse_

mikp said:


> did you find a solution? got the g7 so hesitant to try the az60.
> 
> Maybe it is just ldac option and case size, but has anyone done a sound comparison between the az60 and mtw2? Just got the "new gadget" itch. Told myself to wait for a tws with ldac AND aptx


No solution, az60 returning to amazon


----------



## msooffutt

erockg said:


> Well, I am outside on mile three of a walk with no buildings around me. My phone is in my left front pocket. I am dictating this message on an iPhone 13 pro using the Noble FoKus pro earbuds. Zero drop outs for 3 miles, took a phone call perfectly and my voice was loud and clear. No issues 3 miles in.  Now back to listening to some Van Halen in honor of Eddie‘s birthday.


I’m a little late commenting, but I’m glad to hear that.  I think I just got a bad set.  These sound so good, it would be a bummer for them to have a flaw like that.  I haven’t sent mine back yet, because I’m waiting for the Japanese version to become available.  Suppose to have a radio better suited for interference.


----------



## chechu21

Could you tell me which are the most recommended models in any price range? Thanks


----------



## BooleanBones

chechu21 said:


> Could you tell me which are the most recommended models in any price range? Thanks


I think it might be good if you can include some items most important to you as well as maybe what you find most important in your listening experiences. Otherwise you might get a very wide general range of thoughts. The folks here can be pretty detailed and help you out a ton narrow your choice if you fill in some blanks of must haves like ANC, Ambient, wireless charging.


----------



## chechu21

BooleanBones said:


> I think it might be good if you can include some items most important to you as well as maybe what you find most important in your listening experiences. Otherwise you might get a very wide general range of thoughts. The folks here can be pretty detailed and help you out a ton narrow your choice if you fill in some blanks of must haves like ANC, Ambient, wireless charging.


Ok, I am searching for a V Shape one, ANC don't matter, I'll use outside (train, metro).


----------



## msooffutt

BooleanBones said:


> Got my AKGs today (almost forgot I ordered them). This might be my best dollar to sound value on TWS yet. For 48$ these are a pretty decent little set.


Yeah, I’ve had mine for about a month and they have turned into my new shop earphones.  I originally had a problem turning the transparency mode on and off with the swipe gestures, but someone in here mentioned that if you swipe fast it works better, and sure enough they were right.  Only thing I don’t really like, is that transparency mode turns off during a call.  I like being able to hear my voice when I’m talking on the phone.  Not a big deal.  Pretty damn nice for the price.


----------



## BooleanBones

msooffutt said:


> Yeah, I’ve had mine for about a month and they have turned into my new shop earphones.  I originally had a problem turning the transparency mode on and off with the swipe gestures, but someone in here mentioned that if you swipe fast it works better, and sure enough they were right.  Only thing I don’t really like, is that transparency mode turns off during a call.  I like being able to hear my voice when I’m talking on the phone.  Not a big deal.  Pretty damn nice for the price.


Yeah, that one got me irritated last night since that is when I want to use "talk thru" most  The left/right positioning in the case really bites, but I am sure it had to do with size/positioning. For 48$ though, I can deal with those items.


----------



## darveniza

musicphotolife said:


> I don't see any discussion on the LG TONE Free FP9 so I'd like to share my experience here. I reviewed it recently and it ended up as my new favourite true-wireless.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I have the FP8 it's my go-to for work calls, connection is quick and no one ever complains.


----------



## erockg

jant71 said:


> Do it. Get the Jabra Enhance Plus! Not as easy as just opening the wallet though.


BTW, Jabra released the multi-paring update for the Jabra Elite & Active 7 today as well as other bug fixes


----------



## BooleanBones

chechu21 said:


> Ok, I am searching for a V Shape one, ANC don't matter, I'll use outside (train, metro).


I love my Noble Fokus for feature free sound, but not sure those are available where you are. For maybe a bit overpriced SQ and build quality, the B&O EQs are very nice although the volume levels are a bit limited. The Sony XM4s might fall in your tuning preferences and sound really good with the right EQing, tips and source audio setup. Those are out of the list that I have listened to so far and kept. I am sure others will provide some additional models fitting your needs since there are so many out there.


----------



## sebek

BooleanBones said:


> Got my AKGs today (almost forgot I ordered them). This might be my best dollar to sound value on TWS yet. For 48$ these are a pretty decent little set.


Which AKGs for $ 48?


----------



## BooleanBones (Jan 28, 2022)

sebek said:


> Which AKGs for $ 48?


The N400s if you buy direct from the Harman sites. These have really surprised me what you get. The sound has been pretty good so far, nice quality metal case, pretty comfortable. I will listen to them more this weekend, but really just bought them to check out their tuning/sq and then pass off to the kid, but think I may keep them for myself 

https://www.akg.com/Headphones/Earbuds/AKGN400BLK.html


----------



## pkcpga

chechu21 said:


> Ok, I am searching for a V Shape one, ANC don't matter, I'll use outside (train, metro).


If you are searching for true V shape or slightly recessed mids, bass forward, the B&W PI7 definitely fit that bill, Sony 1000xm4 or if sound only matters Noble Falcon Pro(no ANC, better highs).  If you would like nice deep bass with vocals or mids still being nicely present the Noble FoKus pro is definitely the best ones I’ve heard so far.  Noble FoKus also has a nice app that lets Noble set up an EQ for you based on the way you hear, worked extremely well for myself.


----------



## Not so fat head

Shure just came out with their first compact (but still large) TWS.  They remind me of the Bose sound sports free.
Few frills and no ANC.  It’s apparently all about the Shure sound signature.

$199.00


----------



## Not so fat head

https://www.shure.com/en-US/products/earphones/aonic_free

Looks interesting 🤔


----------



## BooleanBones (Jan 28, 2022)

Not so fat head said:


> https://www.shure.com/en-US/products/earphones/aonic_free
> 
> Looks interesting 🤔


A few folks posted some notes on these when they came out. Think maybe one was @erockg. Might try that model name in the thread search and see what the feedback on them was to give you some ideas.


----------



## Not so fat head

BooleanBones said:


> A few folks posted some notes on these when they came out. Think maybe one was @erockg. Might try that model name in the thread search and see what the feedback on them was to give you some ideas.


Will do…
Thank you


----------



## erockg

BooleanBones said:


> A few folks posted some notes on these when they came out. Think maybe one was @erockg. Might try that model name in the thread search and see what the feedback on them was to give you some ideas.


Yep, had got them at launch a few months + back.  Wound up selling them.  The fit was difficult _for me_.  They sounded wonderful, worked flawlessly and the app is great.  Opted to stick with my Shure TW2 setup instead.  They may fit others better, but not me.  Passive isolation is great (if you get a good fit), soundstage is great.  Personally, I do like the sound of them more than the Bose.  Shure did a great job with them IMO, except for that fit in my case.  Charging case is solid, battery life is awesome.  All the controls mirror what the TW2 have.


----------



## BooleanBones

Who from FOG have used the personalized EQ option in the app? First for me on TWS running through frequency listening tests. I like that a lot.


----------



## erockg

BooleanBones said:


> Who from FOG have used the personalized EQ option in the app? First for me on TWS running through frequency listening tests. I like that a lot.


I did it a while back but my ears are so used to the IEM/Adapter stuff right now, I wound up using the flat EQ on them and lowering the bass frequencies.  But I was definitely impressed with the tests.  I go back and forth.


----------



## BooleanBones

erockg said:


> I did it a while back but my ears are so used to the IEM/Adapter stuff right now, I wound up using the flat EQ on them and lowering the bass frequencies.  But I was definitely impressed with the tests.  I go back and forth.


Really interesting to know where your ears stand on frequencies. Cheap thrills


----------



## erockg

Second pic is what I tweaked.  Took down 8k which was bothering me.  I can't remember which one was what the test came up with!


----------



## BooleanBones

This is where mine landed.


----------



## erockg

BooleanBones said:


> This is where mine landed.


Interesting how similar it is to my first one.


----------



## BooleanBones

erockg said:


> Interesting how similar it is to my first one.


Yep, and like you, I am going to bring one or two down to see if I like it better.


----------



## pkcpga

erockg said:


> Second pic is what I tweaked.  Took down 8k which was bothering me.  I can't remember which one was what the test came up with!


Mine was very similar to your first one, I like and use mine, just tweaked one of the highs also, can’t remember which one.


----------



## pkcpga

BooleanBones said:


> Who from FOG have used the personalized EQ option in the app? First for me on TWS running through frequency listening tests. I like that a lot.


I found this a great feature for its price point and a TWS.  I think it worked fairly well, kept mine minus one of the highs I lowered.  Really wish more iem apps offered this.


----------



## BooleanBones

pkcpga said:


> I found this a great feature for its price point and a TWS.  I think it worked fairly well, kept mine minus one of the highs I lowered.  Really wish more iem apps offered this.


Totally agree, would be pretty handy if this was broadly used.


----------



## darveniza

BooleanBones said:


> A few folks posted some notes on these when they came out. Think maybe one was @erockg. Might try that model name in the thread search and see what the feedback on them was to give you some ideas.


Maybe give this video a watch very insighful


----------



## erockg

Yummy.  Those TWS adapters are going to get a workout this weekend.


----------



## pkcpga

Has anyone tried the Klipsch T5 II Sport?  Might buy them for my son they are on sale through Klipsch for $109.


----------



## BooleanBones

pkcpga said:


> Has anyone tried the Klipsch T5 II Sport?  Might buy them for my son they are on sale through Klipsch for $109.


Only the T5 ii ANC version for me.


----------



## Tommy C

chechu21 said:


> Could you tell me which are the most recommended models in any price range? Thanks


I don’t think there is a clear consensus as this is a fairly subjective topic tbh. What I like may not be your cup of tea and vice versa.


----------



## erockg

pkcpga said:


> Has anyone tried the Klipsch T5 II Sport?  Might buy them for my son they are on sale through Klipsch for $109.


I have, they're good.  The case is huge on the sport version and the absorption crystal feature is just a gimmick IMO.  Sometimes you also cannot tell if the wireless charging is working.  All that said, they sound great and the buds have a long battery life.  I'd still get the ANC version.  I felt they sound a little better with DIRAC and loved Bragi Moves AI.  That said, Klipsch had a good warranty and $109 is a very good price.


----------



## guitarizt (Jan 28, 2022)

LordToneeus said:


> My blon 03 do have a detachable two-in cable...


Oh thanks I guess I'm going to try the blon and tanya! ^_^


Ceeluh7 said:


> OH ya I second that... The Blon 03 does have 2 pin cables. I have had it for a couple years and it is still one of my favorite budget sets. It has a very odd fit, though for me it fits perfect. The 03 has one of the most natural tonalities out there thus bringing it to legend status... Great set


Dude, I just got the he01 and t3+. First impressions of he1 are they are f'ing incredible. I had high hopes for them because the iem's themselves, they're my fav looking and feeling in the hand and feel great in the ear. I was like ok be prepared to be let down, but man it is _insane_ what you can get at this price point. Thanks for posting the deal!

The t3+ are still in the box, gonna spend some time with these.


----------



## Ceeluh7

guitarizt said:


> Oh thanks I guess I'm going to try the blon and tanya! ^_^
> 
> Dude, I just got the he01 and t3+. First impressions of he1 are they are f'ing incredible. I had high hopes for them because the iem's themselves, they're my fav looking and feeling in the hand and feel great in the ear. I was like ok be prepared to be let down, but man it is _insane_ what you can get at this price point. Thanks for posting the deal!
> 
> The t3+ are still in the box, gonna spend some time with these.


So... Funny you say that... I lost my he01's on Vaca months ago. I had them for two days... Loved them. I hadn't tried to get another set until that sale went on but I ordered them and they got to me yesterday and I gotta tell ya man.... They really are exceptional for the price. I got them in the utws5 right now. Ya I forgot how nice these are, and siiiick looking. I got a nice copper balanced cable and kind of go back and forth between wired and wireless. They sound good anyway I play em. I'm glad they are working out for you man


----------



## Ceeluh7

erockg said:


> Yummy.  Those TWS adapters are going to get a workout this weekend.


Nice! Love those lil baddies.


----------



## erockg

Ceeluh7 said:


> Nice! Love those lil baddies.


Dude, seriously impressed.  OH10 are exceeding anything I ever imagined they'd be.  Great bass.  Kato are cleaner with a nice punch.


----------



## Ceeluh7

erockg said:


> Dude, seriously impressed.  OH10 are exceeding anything I ever imagined they'd be.  Great bass.  Kato are cleaner with a nice punch.


Totally and completely agree man. Two great sets to spend some time with. Pick your poison...


----------



## Tommy C

BooleanBones said:


> I think it might be good if you can include some items most important to you as well as maybe what you find most important in your listening experiences. Otherwise you might get a very wide general range of thoughts. The folks here can be pretty detailed and help you out a ton narrow your choice if you fill in some blanks of must haves like ANC, Ambient, wireless charging.


This is a very solid advice.


----------



## Not so fat head

erockg said:


> Yep, had got them at launch a few months + back.  Wound up selling them.  The fit was difficult _for me_.  They sounded wonderful, worked flawlessly and the app is great.  Opted to stick with my Shure TW2 setup instead.  They may fit others better, but not me.  Passive isolation is great (if you get a good fit), soundstage is great.  Personally, I do like the sound of them more than the Bose.  Shure did a great job with them IMO, except for that fit in my case.  Charging case is solid, battery life is awesome.  All the controls mirror what the TW2 have.


Thank you Erockg
They say on their website that the stems are longer and meant to seal deep in the ear canal.
This could be good or bad, so sounds like the tip design is different than Bose..
For me Bose comfort and fit are ideal..
I can wear Bose all day..


----------



## Caipirina (Jan 29, 2022)

the Beats Fit Pro were released in other markets (like mine, Japan) yesterday, I had pre-ordered Thursday & Amazon man came today!


(Just to be clear, this ain’t me, this is a pic from AliExpress )

My very very first impressions are overall positive. I did not have the ‘wow’ effect when turning on the ANC like I had with the APP back in the day. Reasons are two fold: back then was pre-Bose QC and pre-Sonyxm4 and second: fit. I think my ears like the oval tips of the APP a bit more and strangly, in order to get the ‘good seal’ approval from the app, I need to rotate the buds forward ever so slightly, until the wings are not tugged in anymore! Only then do I get a good deal!
Having said that, I do agree with most reviewers that the sound is more engaging than the APP and very much to my liking. The ANC appears to be on par with what I remember the APP were like, but had no chance to try on plane 

2 features I noticed and did not hear about before (those might be just new iOS features, reserved for apple ecosystem buds live listen, basically use your buds as hearing aids & background sounds, which is like soothing ambient / white noise, I think I saw that on Jabra app and recently also soundpeats? Nice that this works WITH music, it is not ‘either / or’

Now I have to see how my first run will go with them.

Side note, I am also kinda proud that this is only my very FIRST tws purchase this year so far! I am really trying to cut back, like only 1 set a month ... i am already / still  eyeing the AZ60 for February


----------



## LordToneeus

erockg said:


> Yummy.  Those TWS adapters are going to get a workout this weekend.


Wow, the obsidian are “hybird“ too! 😂


----------



## potix (Jan 29, 2022)

Hi guys. I bought an aptx/aptx-ll/sbc transmitter, do you know which codec will it use if I connect a pair of sbc/aac/aptx/aptx adaptive tws?
I need a pair of tws that will receive aptx-ll for gaming, preferably flat enough to watch movies on a bed.


----------



## jant71

potix said:


> Hi guys. I bought an aptx/aptx-ll/sbc transmitter, do you know which codec will it use if I connect a pair of sbc/aac/aptx/aptx adaptive tws?
> I need a pair of tws that will receive aptx-ll for gaming, preferably flat enough to watch movies on a bed.


You'll get aptX. Adaptive is not backwards for LL. It has a low latency mode that the buds can switch into instead. Some TWS still have a gaming mode so you'll probably end up with one of those. LL TWS are old now since it is an older codec so you might find a couple but they are not plentiful by any stretch. https://www.aptx.com/product-listing?product_category=7
If you look at the list it is mostly headphones and semi-wireless with one cord. Sorry, TWS with LL really wasn't a thing.


----------



## msooffutt

BooleanBones said:


> This is where mine landed.


I just did mine and we are a little similar.


----------



## clerkpalmer

Thinking about dipping my toes into a new set. Strong ANC is a must for me. Anything worth considering? Was looking at the Grell but apparently the ANC isn’t great.


----------



## Phaethon

Caipirina said:


> the Beats Fit Pro were released in other markets (like mine, Japan) yesterday, I had pre-ordered Thursday & Amazon man came today!
> 
> (Just to be clear, this ain’t me, this is a pic from AliExpress )
> 
> ...



Um. Isn’t she wearing them upside down? I just went and tried that ”fit” with mine and couldn’t get any seal. And I had to switch ears to get them in at all.


----------



## clerkpalmer

Phaethon said:


> Um. Isn’t she wearing them upside down? I just went and tried that ”fit” with mine and couldn’t get any seal. And I had to switch ears to get them in at all.


Yes. Lol.


----------



## Caipirina

Phaethon said:


> Um. Isn’t she wearing them upside down? I just went and tried that ”fit” with mine and couldn’t get any seal. And I had to switch ears to get them in at all.


Yes, totally wrong. A lot of people think all TWS are airpod like stem things … I have seen some weird other ‘total wrong’ wearing here like this. 
Added the photo just for comedic effect


----------



## erockg

LordToneeus said:


> Wow, the obsidian are “hybird“ too! 😂


That's funny, I didn't even notice that!  Guess they cut a few corners with the translator.  I was worried they weren't the Ikko OH10 but they are.  And man, the soundstage and bass on these suckers rocks.


----------



## erockg

clerkpalmer said:


> Thinking about dipping my toes into a new set. Strong ANC is a must for me. Anything worth considering? Was looking at the Grell but apparently the ANC isn’t great.


Yeah, pass on those Grell.  Sound is nice but low volume unless you use the app (which isn't very amazing).  They need a price drop.  You have those AZ60s and the new Japan only Audio Technica.  Both have solid ANC, but nothing compared to the Sony, Bose and Airpods yet IMO.


----------



## clerkpalmer

erockg said:


> Yeah, pass on those Grell.  Sound is nice but low volume unless you use the app (which isn't very amazing).  They need a price drop.  You have those AZ60s and the new Japan only Audio Technica.  Both have solid ANC, but nothing compared to the Sony, Bose and Airpods yet IMO.


Thanks. Maybe I’ll grab the xm4s again. The Bose wipes the floor with just about everything else.


----------



## erockg

clerkpalmer said:


> Thanks. Maybe I’ll grab the xm4s again. The Bose wipes the floor with just about everything else.


I've had those XM4 2x and I do love them.  I grabbed the Jabra Elite 7 Pro again yesterday because the 2.0 firmware added multipoint and "supposedly" better sound & ANC.  We shall see!


----------



## erockg

Amazon has the Beats Fit Pro with a $20 giftcard, or Costco with free AppleCare.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B09QPDRKK...olid=1SBM040WIZBXS&psc=1&ref_=lv_ov_lig_dp_it

https://www.costco.com/beats-fit-pro-true-wireless-earbuds-with-applecare+.product.100806357.html


----------



## clerkpalmer

erockg said:


> I've had those XM4 2x and I do love them.  I grabbed the Jabra Elite 7 Pro again yesterday because the 2.0 firmware added multipoint and "supposedly" better sound & ANC.  We shall see!


Let me know. Never been a huge fan of the Jabra sound signature but I’ll wait for your impressions. I need that soul sucking ANC. Even the Beats Pro fail compared to the Bose.


----------



## erockg

clerkpalmer said:


> Let me know. Never been a huge fan of the Jabra sound signature but I’ll wait for your impressions. I need that soul sucking ANC. Even the Beats Pro fail compared to the Bose.


I do like the sound on the 7s in comparison to the past gen, but that's me.  They'll never replace my Fokus.  I would have kept the Bose but they're huge and the fit tends to kill my ears.  Really hoping Bose reworks the form factor.


----------



## clerkpalmer

erockg said:


> I do like the sound on the 7s in comparison to the past gen, but that's me.  They'll never replace my Fokus.  I would have kept the Bose but they're huge and the fit tends to kill my ears.  Really hoping Bose reworks the form factor.


Guessing that’s how the ANC magic works.


----------



## erockg

clerkpalmer said:


> Guessing that’s how the ANC magic works.


Totally agree, some engineer said - "Let's make them huge and use that same old ear tips because we have a lot of stock.  Eff the guys who will think they're big.  We're Bose, people will always buy our stuff, we make great ANC!"


----------



## BooleanBones

erockg said:


> Yeah, pass on those Grell.  Sound is nice but low volume unless you use the app (which isn't very amazing).  They need a price drop.  You have those AZ60s and the new Japan only Audio Technica.  Both have solid ANC, but nothing compared to the Sony, Bose and Airpods yet IMO.


I really like the XM4s for their shallow fit which are a nice break from the deeper fitting buds. I ended up keeping both those and the AZ60s since they were so different. The AZs feel like they have grappling hooks once you get them sealed which I love too


----------



## erockg

BooleanBones said:


> I really like the XM4s for their shallow fit which are a nice break from the deeper fitting buds. I ended up keeping both those and the AZ60s since they were so different. The AZs feel like they have grappling hooks once you get them sealed which I love too


I liked the voice activated ambient mode on the XM4s very much.  Who knows, I may go for them again if they drop more than they already have.  I agree with you about the AZ60.  Fit was really great.  I tell you though, my setup now which I seem to be using every day fits like a glove.  The Fiio UTWS5 with those Thieaudio Clairvoyance buds.  The perfectly slot around and into my ears.  Is this love?


----------



## cresny

clerkpalmer said:


> Guessing that’s how the ANC magic works.


I do find it interesting that those leading the pack in ANC — Bose, Sony, maybe include Devialet? — use their own tech.  Meanwhile Qualcomm seems to be making clear strides. In the end, I guess whoever can make the best tech in the smallest package wins. My UTSW5s do sound amazing, but if they're going to have ANC then where would the mics go? And if I want to sound good in phone calls, I guess the mic would have to jut out from under my ear? I guess we still have a ways to go and that's a good thing!


----------



## myltz400

Caipirina said:


> the Beats Fit Pro were released in other markets (like mine, Japan) yesterday, I had pre-ordered Thursday & Amazon man came today!
> 
> (Just to be clear, this ain’t me, this is a pic from AliExpress )
> 
> ...



I am also happy with the Fit Pros.  These must be made without the nickle materials because they have not caused any irritation (for those that are inflicted with that).  My only complaint is the case is cheap feeling.  Have them with spin fits and ANC is great on flights, could not get proper seal with stock tips.  Sound is def more clear and detailed than APP.  BTW all of my headphones sounded harsh and strange, found out Dolby Atmos was on!


----------



## Bhelpoori

erockg said:


> Totally agree, some engineer said - "Let's make them huge and use that same old ear tips because we have a lot of stock.  Eff the guys who will think they're big.  We're Bose, people will always buy our stuff, we make great ANC!"


If only that was really the case. It is pretty simple really as exposed by https://www.qucox.com/bose-quietcomfort-earbuds-teardown/ 

Bose use a separate and custom noise cancelling DSP plus Separate CPU. This takes room and needs a larger battery. In addition, they decided on a 9-10mm speaker to get better bass power to cancel the low frequency sounds of e.g. ’plane engines. Take all these together and you get a compromise of better ANC for a larger footprint. Oh, and the QC use a Qualcomm 5127 too…


----------



## scubaphish

erockg said:


> Yeah, pass on those Grell.  Sound is nice but low volume unless you use the app (which isn't very amazing).  They need a price drop.  You have those AZ60s and the new Japan only Audio Technica.  Both have solid ANC, but nothing compared to the Sony, Bose and Airpods yet IMO.


I think the Gemini ANC is pretty great.


----------



## erockg

I get it.  Clearly, my humor didn’t translate


----------



## erockg

scubaphish said:


> I think the Gemini ANC is pretty great.


You’re totally right.  Forgot!


----------



## Bhelpoori

erockg said:


> I get it.  Clearly, my humor didn’t translate


Your humour did translate… it is just that the Bose is a little marvel inside which I wanted to show.


----------



## dmphile

erockg said:


> That's funny, I didn't even notice that!  Guess they cut a few corners with the translator.  I was worried they weren't the Ikko OH10 but they are.  And man, the soundstage and bass on these suckers rocks.


I'm still waiting for my OH10s to arrive so I can pair them with the UTWS5. The more I'm reading about them and others experience, the more excited I get!


----------



## dmphile

dmphile said:


> I'm still waiting for my OH10s to arrive so I can pair them with the UTWS5. The more I'm reading about them and others experience, the more excited I get!


Guys - I need to put my son to sleep first but I am jacked!


----------



## dj24

erockg said:


> I've had those XM4 2x and I do love them.  I grabbed the Jabra Elite 7 Pro again yesterday because the 2.0 firmware added multipoint and "supposedly" better sound & ANC.  We shall see!


Eagerly awaiting your thoughts on the Elite 7 pro...If I'm not mistaken you were not enamored with their sound the first time around compared to the 7 Active so I'm wondering if they've tweaked the sound as well with this latest update.  I'm also not sure if the Pros are IPX7 just like the Actives since there's a lot of info online with different views on it..


----------



## Phaethon

erockg said:


> That's funny, I didn't even notice that!  Guess they cut a few corners with the translator.  I was worried they weren't the Ikko OH10 but they are.  And man, the soundstage and bass on these suckers rocks.



I had the same exact experience! It’s like the “Ikko OH10” were nowhere to be seen on the box when I first looked! The units themselves seemed so big and heavy, but they fit my ears perfectly with stability and seem to have no weight when in the ear. The tuning is spectacular to me and sound absolutely perfect for almost everything. The one music I found it doesn’t care for is Calvin Harris. He produces this famous wall of sound and the OH10s struggle to find separation and resolution. I had no such problem in a wide variety of EDM, but nothing by Calvin Harris worked well for me. Rock, jazz, fusion, and classical all sounded well-defined and exciting otherwise! These on 2 pin converters on Shure TW2s are my every day wireless!


----------



## erockg

dj24 said:


> Eagerly awaiting your thoughts on the Elite 7 pro...If I'm not mistaken you were not enamored with their sound the first time around compared to the 7 Active so I'm wondering if they've tweaked the sound as well with this latest update.  I'm also not sure if the Pros are IPX7 just like the Actives since there's a lot of info online with different views on it..


Yeah, I did find that the 7 Active beat the 7 Pro in sound with the bass/sub bass.  But now, they seemed have tweaked the firmware and the 7 Active sound much better to me.  Also, the ANC seems tweaked.  It's eliminating much more than I remember here at home.  Multiparing is working flawlessly.  I'm able to switch from computer to iPhone easily.  Only two devices at a time.  From what I'm seeing on the Jabra site, the Active 7 Pro and the Elite 7 Pro both are IPX57 which seems odd, but I'll take it.  I haven't used them on any wfh Zoom calls or regular calls yet.  That'll come during the week.  These are a much better value now, especially with multi-pairing.  Really hope all the bug are gone.  So far so good.


----------



## Ceeluh7

dmphile said:


> Guys - I need to put my son to sleep first but I am jacked!


Nice man!


----------



## dmphile

Ceeluh7 said:


> Nice man!


Will share impressions after I do a few hours of listening on my favourite tracks.


----------



## erockg

Phaethon said:


> I had the same exact experience! It’s like the “Ikko OH10” were nowhere to be seen on the box when I first looked! The units themselves seemed so big and heavy, but they fit my ears perfectly with stability and seem to have no weight when in the ear. The tuning is spectacular to me and sound absolutely perfect for almost everything. The one music I found it doesn’t care for is Calvin Harris. He produces this famous wall of sound and the OH10s struggle to find separation and resolution. I had no such problem in a wide variety of EDM, but nothing by Calvin Harris worked well for me. Rock, jazz, fusion, and classical all sounded well-defined and exciting otherwise! These on 2 pin converters on Shure TW2s are my every day wireless!


That's awesome man.  Glad I'm not alone and a few of you all on this chain love them.  I can't get them to work comfortably with my ears and the TW2 .


----------



## clerkpalmer (Jan 29, 2022)

Bhelpoori said:


> If only that was really the case. It is pretty simple really as exposed by https://www.qucox.com/bose-quietcomfort-earbuds-teardown/
> 
> Bose use a separate and custom noise cancelling DSP plus Separate CPU. This takes room and needs a larger battery. In addition, they decided on a 9-10mm speaker to get better bass power to cancel the low frequency sounds of e.g. ’plane engines. Take all these together and you get a compromise of better ANC for a larger footprint. Oh, and the QC use a Qualcomm 5127 too…


Nice find. Bose gets crapped on all the time undeservedly.  I find their products to be tech forward and solid. Customer service is excellent. Rarely disappointed. They aren’t trying to be Audeze. Anyway, the clearly spent a lot of engineering mojo to create the best ANC tws in the market. It’s crazy how good it is considering the semi open nature of them.


----------



## clerkpalmer

scubaphish said:


> I think the Gemini ANC is pretty great.


True. I have a set of these laying around somewhere.


----------



## guitarizt

Timeless is 198 usd on linsoul.


----------



## dmphile

Ok - been using the OH10s for a few hours now and I think found my end game for now...

Right away, comfort is top notch (better than timeless) to my ears. I don't feel the weight at all, as some others have noted. You definitely feel it picking them up at 16g each but not enough to feel when they're nested properly in your ears.

This sound signature is the closest and reminiscent of the beoplay EQs and if my ears don't deceive me, they are actually better than the EQs in terms of detail and resolution with a similar amount of soundstage, imaging and slightly brighter (non sibilant or harsh) top end. Sooooo good! They are not harsh at all to my ears where the timeless would fatigue my ears quite quickly on certain tracks but man the OH10s handle so many tracks beautifully. Ikko has created something quite special here for the $200 range. I can see myself reaching for these on most nights for a nice and casual listen. The bass (mid and sub) are so well textured and impactful without muddying the mid range and top end as many have already stated through various reviews. Can't wait to run them through the rest of my playlists. UTWS5 does a fantastic job of powering them with no issues.

Thanks @Ceeluh7 for the recco!


----------



## guitarizt

dmphile said:


> Ok - been using the OH10s for a few hours now and I think found my end game for now...
> 
> Right away, comfort is top notch (better than timeless) to my ears. I don't feel the weight at all, as some others have noted. You definitely feel it picking them up at 16g each but not enough to feel when they're nested properly in your ears.
> 
> ...


Oh man I've been eyeing the oh10. DIdn't see where ceeluh7 rec'ed them. I was gonna ask him what he'd recommend next. I just ordered the blon 3 and tanya. I still love the he01. Idk, something about the way it reacts to stuff and the sound sig. Also have my eye on the heart mirror. Just wish it was closer to 40 instead of 60.

The timeless fatigues me as well, and the way everything meshes together feels weird. Looks like the oh10 might be next for me. Maybe fh3 for a bit cheaper. The oh10 starts getting into blessing 2 territory for me.


----------



## dmphile (Jan 29, 2022)

guitarizt said:


> Oh man I've been eyeing the oh10. DIdn't see where ceeluh7 rec'ed them. I was gonna ask him what he'd recommend next. I just ordered the blon 3 and tanya. I still love the he01. Idk, something about the way it reacts to stuff and the sound sig. Also have my eye on the heart mirror. Just wish it was closer to 40 instead of 60.
> 
> The timeless fatigues me as well, and the way everything meshes together feels weird. Looks like the oh10 might be next for me. Maybe fh3 for a bit cheaper. The oh10 starts getting into blessing 2 territory for me.


I literally listened to hours of a bunch of sound demos on youtube between the OH10's, XENN UPS, MEST, Arias, Timeless, T3 plus, Hana's etc... including the blessing 2 and the OH10's just sounded way better to me and more open. The B2 sounded really congested to me and way too neutral for my taste but that might suit some, just not me. I was a little hesitant on the OH10's but took the plunged and have been swimming in sonic bliss since they arrived. I'm praising them quite a bit now because I'm very particular in the sound signature that I enjoy and they got my head bobbing right way just like the Beoplay EQ's did. I tested them on some of my favourite tracks. Classical, Jazz, Pop, House, and it's performed beautifully so far without fatigue or discomfort. Will likely be putting the Timeless up for sale at this rate...


----------



## guitarizt

dmphile said:


> I literally listened to hours of a bunch of sound demos on youtube between the OH10's, XENN UPS, MEST, Arias, Timeless, T3 plus, Hana's etc... including the blessing 2 and the OH10's just sounded way better to me and more open. The B2 sounded really congested to me and way too neutral for my taste but that might suit some, just not me. I was a little hesitant on the OH10's but took the plunged and have been swimming in sonic bliss since they arrived. I'm praising them quite a bit now because I'm very particular in the sound signature that I enjoy and they got my head bobbing right way just like the Beoplay EQ's did. I tested them on some of my favourite tracks. Classical, Jazz, Pop, House, and it's performed beautifully so far without fatigue. Will likely be putting the Timeless up for sale at this rate...


Hmm, interesting. I tend to like neutral and congested. I've started listening to the sound demo's of iem's I own and they're so misleading. In real life they sound much diff to me than on yt, but I'll have to spend more time with everything. I really like the mele on the sound clips, but in real life I just haven't been feeling them.

Oh and I just ordered the heart mirror. It's about 45 shipped after vat on aliexpress. The only thing is eta is march 20.

Linsoul has blon 03 for $22 for anyone interested. I was about to buy it for 40 on amazon until I found it on linsoul by accident searching for the heart mirror.


----------



## dmphile

guitarizt said:


> Hmm, interesting. I tend to like neutral and congested. I've started listening to the sound demo's of iem's I own and they're so misleading. In real life they sound much diff to me than on yt, but I'll have to spend more time with everything. I really like the mele on the sound clips, but in real life I just haven't been feeling them.
> 
> Oh and I just ordered the heart mirror. It's about 45 shipped after vat on aliexpress. The only thing is eta is march 20.
> 
> Linsoul has blon 03 for $22 for anyone interested. I was about to buy it for 40 on amazon until I found it on linsoul by accident searching for the heart mirror.


I agree, Youtube sound demos aren't the greatest representation of the sound IRL but it's probably the closest thing to hearing something before pulling the trigger. Among the various reviews that consistently share similar thoughts and views, it's the next best thing to helping you assess the sound signature to see if it suits your taste. I was tempted to try some of the KZ IEMS on Amazon but since the OH10's arrived, I no longer have a desire to try anything else at the moment. Just need to enjoy these until I get another itch... lol


----------



## Caipirina (Jan 30, 2022)

myltz400 said:


> I am also happy with the Fit Pros.  These must be made without the nickle materials because they have not caused any irritation (for those that are inflicted with that).  My only complaint is the case is cheap feeling.  Have them with spin fits and ANC is great on flights, could not get proper seal with stock tips.  Sound is def more clear and detailed than APP.  BTW all of my headphones sounded harsh and strange, found out Dolby Atmos was on!


just also added spin fits! Makes quite a difference, but now they barely fit in the case 



Dolby Atmos? I guess on Android?
I am still surprised how 'little' bass they have for a "beats" product


----------



## Bhelpoori

clerkpalmer said:


> Nice find. Bose gets crapped on all the time undeservedly.  I find their products to be tech forward and solid. Customer service is excellent. Rarely disappointed. They aren’t trying to be Audeze. Anyway, the clearly spent a lot of engineering mojo to create the best ANC tws in the market. It’s crazy how good it is considering the semi open nature of them.


Also, it appears that Amar Bose, the original founder, gave the majority of his shares to MIT who must use the dividends for teaching purposes. It remains a private corp run independently of MIT though.
https://news.mit.edu/2011/bose-gift


----------



## bronco1015

clerkpalmer said:


> Thanks. Maybe I’ll grab the xm4s again. The Bose wipes the floor with just about everything else.


Totally agree. My QC Buds sat unused for 6-7 months until end of December, and I forgot how great the ANC is sound is easy to listen to and for how huge they are, they have always been really comfortable for me.


----------



## Caipirina

bronco1015 said:


> Totally agree. My QC Buds sat unused for 6-7 months until end of December, and I forgot how great the ANC is sound is easy to listen to and for how huge they are, they have always been really comfortable for me.


Love my Bose QC, they were for a time my preferred running buds, despite the size. Now it’s winter and they don’t fit under wool hats


----------



## Ceeluh7 (Jan 30, 2022)

guitarizt said:


> Oh man I've been eyeing the oh10. DIdn't see where ceeluh7 rec'ed them. I was gonna ask him what he'd recommend next. I just ordered the blon 3 and tanya. I still love the he01. Idk, something about the way it reacts to stuff and the sound sig. Also have my eye on the heart mirror. Just wish it was closer to 40 instead of 60.
> 
> The timeless fatigues me as well, and the way everything meshes together feels weird. Looks like the oh10 might be next for me. Maybe fh3 for a bit cheaper. The oh10 starts getting into blessing 2 territory for me.


The Fiio FH3 is a very nice set. Good thought man.


----------



## Phaethon

guitarizt said:


> Oh man I've been eyeing the oh10. DIdn't see where ceeluh7 rec'ed them. I was gonna ask him what he'd recommend next. I just ordered the blon 3 and tanya. I still love the he01. Idk, something about the way it reacts to stuff and the sound sig. Also have my eye on the heart mirror. Just wish it was closer to 40 instead of 60.
> 
> The timeless fatigues me as well, and the way everything meshes together feels weird. Looks like the oh10 might be next for me. Maybe fh3 for a bit cheaper. The oh10 starts getting into blessing 2 territory for me.


IMHO, the OH10s blow everything in the next price tier above it out of the water! I returned almost everything Ive been testing, leaving my OH10s and my B2s in my pocket and I keep coming back to the OH10s over and over. The one coming this week is the Moondrop Chaccone (sp?) which won’t fit into any adapters because they’re earbuds, but I’m in the round of this game where I’m exploring the fringes. Lol


----------



## BigZ12

Ceeluh7 said:


> The Fiio FH3 is a very nice set. Good thought man.


Very good sound wise, but the driver flex ruins this set IMO.


----------



## Ceeluh7

Phaethon said:


> IMHO, the OH10s blow everything in the next price tier above it out of the water! I returned almost everything Ive been testing, leaving my OH10s and my B2s in my pocket and I keep coming back to the OH10s over and over. The one coming this week is the Moondrop Chaccone (sp?) which won’t fit into any adapters because they’re earbuds, but I’m in the round of this game where I’m exploring the fringes. Lol


Earbuds aren't bad at all. I have a few of them. They are much more open, airy. The sound is nice for sure. It isn't for me, I tried. I even like the sound but something is missing, some element is not there. But many people do love the sound of an Earbud. There is a distinct lack of low end on many, yet that isn't always the case. 
Oh10's are pretty much perfect at the price. They punch above the asking price by quite a bit. Glad you are liking them. Keep searching man. I will too.


----------



## Ceeluh7

BigZ12 said:


> Very good sound wise, but the driver flex ruins this set IMO.


Driver flex? They are vented both ways. Hmm. That sucks... I've never had driver flex from them, lol. Never heard anyone say anything about that either. Oh well, guess it can happen to anyone if your ear anatomy is just right


----------



## BigZ12

Ceeluh7 said:


> Driver flex? They are vented both ways. Hmm. That sucks... I've never had driver flex from them, lol. Never heard anyone say anything about that either. Oh well, guess it can happen to anyone if your ear anatomy is just right


Maybe there's an updated version? Don't think mine were vented? I googled "FH3 - driver flex" after I got them, experienced the driver flex, and found others with the same problem.


----------



## BigZ12

Ceeluh7 said:


> Driver flex? They are vented both ways. Hmm. That sucks... I've never had driver flex from them, lol. Never heard anyone say anything about that either. Oh well, guess it can happen to anyone if your ear anatomy is just right


https://www.google.com/search?client=opera&q=fiio+fh3+driver+flex&sourceid=opera&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8
As you see.... several reports...


----------



## Ceeluh7

BigZ12 said:


> Maybe there's an updated version? Don't think mine were vented? I googled "FH3 - driver flex" after I got them, experienced the driver flex, and found others with the same problem.


Ya maybe they did update them... It's certainly happened before. I bought mine maybe 6.months after they came out.. Best guess. They are absolutely the most comfortable pair of iems that I own, prob 3 others which are right in line with them. I added a couple pics to show you that they do have venting both ways. Please don't think I am shoving it in your face... Lol... I wouldn't do that. Just showing that at least the batch I got Def have forward and back venting.


----------



## Ceeluh7

BigZ12 said:


> Maybe there's an updated version? Don't think mine were vented? I googled "FH3 - driver flex" after I got them, experienced the driver flex, and found others with the same problem.


Ya maybe they did update them... It's certainly happened before. I bought mine maybe 6.months after they came out.. Best guess. They are absolutely the most comfortable pair of iems that I own, prob 3 others which are right in line with them. I added a couple pics to show you that they do have venting both ways. Please don't think I am shoving it in your face... Lol... I wouldn't do that. Just showing that at least the batch I got Def have forward and back venting


BigZ12 said:


> https://www.google.com/search?client=opera&q=fiio+fh3+driver+flex&sourceid=opera&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8
> As you see.... several reports...


Hmm.. Okay. Ya ive never had close to that. I don't suspect it's an actual problem. If you pull upward on your ear you can relieve that upon putting them in. I suppose any iem can have driver flex to a degree unless they are open back. That does suck as the Fiio fh3 are bonkers good for the price.


----------



## guitarizt

Ceeluh7 said:


> The Fiio FH3 is a very nice set. Good thought man.


Super Review just came out with an s12 video today. Surprisingly, he sold me on the fh3 in the video, lol. Didn't expect that from an s12 review!


Phaethon said:


> IMHO, the OH10s blow everything in the next price tier above it out of the water! I returned almost everything Ive been testing, leaving my OH10s and my B2s in my pocket and I keep coming back to the OH10s over and over. The one coming this week is the Moondrop Chaccone (sp?) which won’t fit into any adapters because they’re earbuds, but I’m in the round of this game where I’m exploring the fringes. Lol


Oh man interesting, the chaconne looks different enough where it's so tempting, but unfortunately it's in that 300+ price range where I'd rather have the blessing 2 or multiple cheaper iems. I'll let the reviews of it start coming out, and maybe I'll have more discretionary income by summer.

Based on your review and the prices, I'm def leaning towards the oh10 over the b2. I kind of have the feeling I'll skip b2 entirely and aim for the variations or monarch mk2. Seems like we both aren't super into the timeless. What other iems have you been testing?



Ceeluh7 said:


> Driver flex? They are vented both ways. Hmm. That sucks... I've never had driver flex from them, lol. Never heard anyone say anything about that either. Oh well, guess it can happen to anyone if your ear anatomy is just right


First I've heard about this as well, maybe a qc issue and bad luck?


----------



## Ceeluh7 (Jan 30, 2022)

guitarizt said:


> Super Review just came out with an s12 video today. Surprisingly, he sold me on the fh3 in the video, lol. Didn't expect that from an s12 review!
> 
> Oh man interesting, the chaconne looks different enough where it's so tempting, but unfortunately it's in that 300+ price range where I'd rather have the blessing 2 or multiple cheaper iems. I'll let the reviews of it start coming out, and maybe I'll have more discretionary income by summer.
> 
> ...


Ya "super review" has similar taste to me as well. He is right about the FH3.

About the B2... It is very nice but there is a huge roll off around the treble area... Which you may like, the Mids are nice for vocals, and there is only a slight boost in the mid bass. The oh10 is a Sub bass king, as the mid bass rolls off enough to not congest anything in the lower mids and the highs run a very nice path all the way out as you can see on the graph. Imo these do play out like that. Honestly it's whatever you enjoy. Many people really love the B2. The oh10 is on so many best of lists because of the tight and bruising bass but also the extension, it makes it exciting and more energetic than many sets. Again, it's all about taste. Some people don't want that energy and find it fatiguing. As for me... Love it


----------



## erockg

Phaethon said:


> IMHO, the OH10s blow everything in the next price tier above it out of the water! I returned almost everything Ive been testing, leaving my OH10s and my B2s in my pocket and I keep coming back to the OH10s over and over. The one coming this week is the Moondrop Chaccone (sp?) which won’t fit into any adapters because they’re earbuds, but I’m in the round of this game where I’m exploring the fringes. Lol


I'm going back and forth between the OH10 and the Kato and they're both great in different ways.  The Kato exceeds in clarity and separation by far to my ears.  One thing that is truly cool on the OH10 is the soundstage.  I'm really impressed at how wide it is.  The bass is big on the OH10, but the Kato seems to have tighter bass punch.  Love the fit of the OH10.  Kato fit, but I'm still working on perfection there.  Kato are smaller.  Neither touch my Thieaudio Clairvoyance.  The TC just fits like a glove and man, everything coalesces so perfect with them.  I'm only using my TWS adapters with all of this stuff.  KZ AZ09 Pro, UTWS3 & 5 and the TW2s.  Depending on which adapters I use, really does change up the sound.  Really hard to for me to decide if both the OH10 and Kato should stay or one should go right now.  I will say this, both of these let me to return the Mangird Tea.  The Tea aren't bad at all, but for 100 less, these can definitely compete if not exceed what I was hearing from the MT.

There is no end game.  No matter what we think!


----------



## Ceeluh7 (Jan 30, 2022)

erockg said:


> I'm going back and forth between the OH10 and the Kato and they're both great in different ways.  The Kato exceeds in clarity and separation by far to my ears.  One thing that is truly cool on the OH10 is the soundstage.  I'm really impressed at how wide it is.  The bass is big on the OH10, but the Kato seems to have tighter bass punch.  Love the fit of the OH10.  Kato fit, but I'm still working on perfection there.  Kato are smaller.  Neither touch my Thieaudio Clairvoyance.  The TC just fits like a glove and man, everything coalesces so perfect with them.  I'm only using my TWS adapters with all of this stuff.  KZ AZ09 Pro, UTWS3 & 5 and the TW2s.  Depending on which adapters I use, really does change up the sound.  Really hard to for me to decide if both the OH10 and Kato should stay or one should go right now.  I will say this, both of these let me to return the Mangird Tea.  The Tea aren't bad at all, but for 100 less, these can definitely compete if not exceed what I was hearing from the MT.
> 
> There is no end game.  No matter what we think!


That is exactly right. The soundstage is huge on the oh10. You can see the extension on the graph as it is more linear i the upp

er parts of the frequency and simply has a wider soundstage. Just like the Hana 2021 the Kato has great separation, clarity and resolution and nice tight bass with the Hana having slightly more sub bass but the graph below Def shows the differences with the Kato and oh10.... Both great.
Dude.... I like to pretend there is an end game but.... Lol.... I look at myself and whisper... That's cute.


----------



## erockg

Ceeluh7 said:


> That is exactly right. The soundstage is huge on the oh10. You can see the extension on the graph as it is more linear i the upper parts of the frequency and simply has a wider soundstage. Just like the Hana 2021 the Kato has great separation, clarity and resolution and nice tight bass with the Hana having slightly more sub bass but the graph below Def shows the differences with the Kato and oh10.... Both great.
> Dude.... I like to pretend there is an end game but.... Lol.... I look at myself and whisper... That's cute.


For sure, I'm going back and forth with the graphs to try and discern why I hear what I'm hearing with all of these.  It's quite obsessive.


----------



## guitarizt

Just watched the yearphone video by super reviews, he likes the kato as well. It's on my radar. Just too many choices. Hopefully the olina comes soon. I'm learning towards the fh3 since I don't have a bass heavy iem atm.

I just tried the t3+. Really surprised me. I was expecting to be disappointed with how happy I was with the he01, but the t3+ is really similar. The sound samples online are actually pretty accurate where the t3+ is more energetic than the he01. The t3+ is pretty analytical, more than the aria and he01 is the worst technically. But for the t3+, the high energy makes the instruments and vocals feel weird to me, where everything doesn't seem to mesh together that well. The t3+ really reminds me of a budget timeless for lack of anything better I have to compare it to.

The problem is that the timeless is better than the t3+, and the he01 covers a different territory, so the t3+ is kind of in limbo for me. One thing I am surprised by is how everyone seems to favor the aria hands down, but the t3+ should be in the conversation for best sub 100 iem imo.

I feel like I could get into the weeds with talking about diff genres they're each good for, but for $80, the aria, he01, and t3+ are all so good. I'd take all three over my galaxy bud pros. I think it gets trickier when getting to the 300+ range because then the diminishing returns hurt and I get way pickier.


----------



## Ceeluh7

erockg said:


> For sure, I'm going back and forth with the graphs to try and discern why I hear what I'm hearing with all of these.  It's quite obsessive.


Ya dude.... I totally get it. If you want gonto Crinacle Graph comparison on his website... He has the most to compare. BGGAR also has quite a few..

The graph shows the extension of the oh10's as it doesn't roll off the same as the Kato. The oh10 also has a slight peak up top (upper midrange) which adds alot to it. I will say that the vocals on the Kato and Hana 2021 (I reference the Hana because the Kato and Hana are so close) are a bit better, closer but not too close. I agree with you... Take your pick as to which is better... Good luck man.

Hey the Tripowin Hbb Olina ($99)is coming out soon... Do not sleep on that set. It is BGGAR's next set and is made with the same driver as the Tanchjim oxygen (widely regarded as the best Single DD under $500) and shares an identicle graph. Check out his video man... I'm thinking that will negate the Hana 2021 or the Kato...
I am like you with the adapters, they are so nice. The last few days I've been primarily using them. Unless I bust out the TRI I3 Pro (personal fav) then I have to use the IFi Go Blu because it just likes more juice (DD, Planar & BA)


----------



## guitarizt

Ceeluh7 said:


> Ya dude.... I totally get it. If you want gonto Crinacle Graph comparison on his website... He has the most to compare. BGGAR also has quite a few..
> 
> The graph shows the extension of the oh10's as it doesn't roll off the same as the Kato. The oh10 also has a slight peak up top (upper midrange) which adds alot to it. I will say that the vocals on the Kato and Hana 2021 (I reference the Hana because the Kato and Hana are so close) are a bit better, closer but not too close. I agree with you... Take your pick as to which is better... Good luck man.
> 
> ...


I still have the tri i3 pro noted. I just wish it was at the sub 150 mark. I ordered the olina and hopefully they're here soon. I'm not sure how long the waiting period usually is.


----------



## Ceeluh7

guitarizt said:


> Just watched the yearphone video by super reviews, he likes the kato as well. It's on my radar. Just too many choices. Hopefully the olina comes soon. I'm learning towards the fh3 since I don't have a bass heavy iem atm.
> 
> I just tried the t3+. Really surprised me. I was expecting to be disappointed with how happy I was with the he01, but the t3+ is really similar. The sound samples online are actually pretty accurate where the t3+ is more energetic than the he01. The t3+ is pretty analytical, more than the aria and he01 is the worst technically. But for the t3+, the high energy makes the instruments and vocals feel weird to me, where everything doesn't seem to mesh together that well. The t3+ really reminds me of a budget timeless for lack of anything better I have to compare it to.
> 
> ...


I am entirely like you... I did a review on Facebook. A lengthy one comparing the Aria and the t3+ and the Mele, Blon 03....the t3+ came away tops over them all. The tonality of the Aria and t3+ is very very close. If you look at a graph they are darn near identicle with the t3+ having a bit more energy in the lows and the highs. Let the t3+ burn in. It needs time, at least 50 hrs. In fact try to burn all these sets in as they will change and the drivers will settle so what you are hearing now... Like treble peaks, bloated basses at times can be helped with just burn in or what I like to do... Listen in. I also agree whole heartedly about your summary of the HE01... It isn't a technical giant but it does have great tonality and just is emphasized in the right areas. Anyways, you are spot on with what I hear regarding these sets.


----------



## Ceeluh7

guitarizt said:


> I still have the tri i3 pro noted. I just wish it was at the sub 150 mark. I ordered the olina and hopefully they're here soon. I'm not sure how long the waiting period usually is.


Dude.... You pre ordered the Olina? Wait... I think you told me that already. Anyways, make sure to post the verse you get because I'm sure you'll be in the first 500 that purchased it. That's great.


----------



## Ceeluh7

FYI.... Check out these graphs... Crazy. If you've ever heard the Oxygen, it is by far.. At least for me one of the best Single DD's out there. The two graph identicle but the olina will have better build quality in the same shell as the Mele. It'll be interesting for sure. At $99 this is a must have.


----------



## erockg

Ceeluh7 said:


> Ya dude.... I totally get it. If you want gonto Crinacle Graph comparison on his website... He has the most to compare. BGGAR also has quite a few..
> 
> The graph shows the extension of the oh10's as it doesn't roll off the same as the Kato. The oh10 also has a slight peak up top (upper midrange) which adds alot to it. I will say that the vocals on the Kato and Hana 2021 (I reference the Hana because the Kato and Hana are so close) are a bit better, closer but not too close. I agree with you... Take your pick as to which is better... Good luck man.
> 
> ...


I'll check them out!  I also have my eye on those SeeAudio X Crinacle Yume Midnight IEMs.  Reading good things.  I keep thinking about checking out the Hana.  They always cross my path.  

One thing of note.  I bought those TRN30 adapters and I just can't find any IEM that works good with them.  They seem underpowered and you really have to crank the volume to get anything out of them.  Disappointed, or maybe I'm just not finding the right match yet.


----------



## erockg

Ceeluh7 said:


> FYI.... Check out these graphs... Crazy. If you've ever heard the Oxygen, it is by far.. At least for me one of the best Single DD's out there. The two graph identicle but the olina will have better build quality in the same shell as the Mele. It'll be interesting for sure. At $99 this is a must have.


Here's what I'm playing with, but seriously thinking about the SeeAudio IEMs.


----------



## Ceeluh7

erockg said:


> I'll check them out!  I also have my eye on those SeeAudio X Crinacle Yume Midnight IEMs.  Reading good things.  I keep thinking about checking out the Hana.  They always cross my path.
> 
> One thing of note.  I bought those TRN30 adapters and I just can't find any IEM that works good with them.  They seem underpowered and you really have to crank the volume to get anything out of them.  Disappointed, or maybe I'm just not finding the right match yet.


You need something really sensitive. I saw another thread where some dude said basically the same thing as you... Underpowered and not a pleasing tonality. I ws going to buy it but... I have enough adapters at the moment. So the Hana is the Kato with slightly more low end, particularly the sub bass and more energy up top but they are both Harman tuned. Sorry about all the graphs... It just help explain better


----------



## Ceeluh7

erockg said:


> Here's what I'm playing with, but seriously thinking about the SeeAudio IEMs.


So I didn't know variations had such a drop in mid bass... Not that that's bad, it'll open up the mids a bit, but at the same time the Mids will come across a bit thinner. I like bass monsters too, the Crinacle set looks to be an absolute monster. Gizaudio gave it a very high praise on YouTube. You have some awesome sets, quite a collection man.


----------



## erockg

Ceeluh7 said:


> So I didn't know variations had such a drop in mid bass... Not that that's bad, it'll open up the mids a bit, but at the same time the Mids will come across a bit thinner. I like bass monsters too, the Crinacle set looks to be an absolute monster. Gizaudio gave it a very high praise on YouTube. You have some awesome sets, quite a collection man.


Thanks man. Yeah I saw that review too and BGs Funny thing is that everything I have seems to be similar with slight variations.  

When listening to the right tunes, the MDV really sound great.  But they seem to be getting the least love right now.

The TRN definitely have a lame tonality.  Sad.  I very much prefer the AZ09 Pro to them.  Fiio 5 are permanently attached to my Clairvoyance.  3s, I cut off the bottom, filed them down and they now fit Moondrop buds!


----------



## Ceeluh7

erockg said:


> Thanks man. Yeah I saw that review too and BGs Funny thing is that everything I have seems to be similar with slight variations.
> 
> When listening to the right tunes, the MDV really sound great.  But they seem to be getting the least love right now.
> 
> The TRN definitely have a lame tonality.  Sad.  I very much prefer the AZ09 Pro to them.  Fiio 5 are permanently attached to my Clairvoyance.  3s, I cut off the bottom, filed them down and they now fit Moondrop buds!


I never thought to do that... Can you post a pick of the filed down version... I would love to put the Aria on my 3's...this group is awesome


----------



## nekonhime (Jan 30, 2022)

Hey guys, should I get the B&O EQ when I already have the xm4, mw08 and T5 II anc cause I saw the eq for 225$?


----------



## Pro-Jules (Jan 30, 2022)

https://www.tomsguide.com/news/apple-airpods-pro-2-could-swap-bluetooth-for-hi-res-audio-technology

Optical wireless ? Infrared? 

Could this possibly find the holy grail? - Hi Res to wireless


----------



## sebek

nekonhime said:


> Hey guys, should I get the B&O EQ when I already have the xm4, mw08 and T5 II anc cause I saw the eq for 225$?


Which do you prefer among the three?


----------



## nekonhime

sebek said:


> Which do you prefer among the three?


I will say the xm4 due to noise cancellation, but I prefer the sound of the mw08 the most


----------



## sebek

nekonhime said:


> I will say the xm4 due to noise cancellation, but I prefer the sound of the mw08 the most


I have WF-1000XM4 and I love them, but I'm considering a second set with a slightly different signature.

I find XM4 extraordinary with Metal and the more energetic / aggressive genres, because they manage to sound engaging, fun, but smooth and not tiring.

I would like the second set with a different sound, with more emphasis on mids and mid-treble than bass, but without harshness and sharp treble, for vocals and acoustic music.


----------



## nekonhime

sebek said:


> I have WF-1000XM4 and I love them, but I'm considering a second set with a slightly different signature.
> 
> I find XM4 extraordinary with Metal and the more energetic / aggressive genres, because they manage to sound engaging, fun, but smooth and not tiring.
> 
> I would like the second set with a different sound, with more emphasis on mids and mid-treble than bass, but without harshness and sharp treble, for vocals and acoustic music.


Yeah, that why I consider the eq due to many reviews said they have more details than the xm4 but you might want to try the T5II anc


----------



## ldo77

erockg said:


> Thanks man. Yeah I saw that review too and BGs Funny thing is that everything I have seems to be similar with slight variations.
> 
> When listening to the right tunes, the MDV really sound great.  But they seem to be getting the least love right now.
> 
> The TRN definitely have a lame tonality.  Sad.  I very much prefer the AZ09 Pro to them.  Fiio 5 are permanently attached to my Clairvoyance.  3s, I cut off the bottom, filed them down and they now fit Moondrop buds!


What do you mean by lame tonality?


----------



## erockg (Jan 30, 2022)

Ceeluh7 said:


> I never thought to do that... Can you post a pick of the filed down version... I would love to put the Aria on my 3's...this group is awesome


Here you go.  You have to cut and pull off the rings at the end of the Fiio.  Sadly, I didn’t take pics of the process.  EDIT:  Added pics of the filed down AZ09 Pro too.  Works with all my Moondrop and other 2 Pin IEMs.


----------



## erockg

ldo77 said:


> What do you mean by lame tonality?


Not sure how to explain it better.  For me, they lack the power and definition the Fiio and AZ09 Pro seem to have.  They just do sound particularly colorful.  More flat and not a robust.  Not sure if it's the amp in them or not.  But like @Ceeluh7 and I were discussing, it could be I haven't found a sensitive IEM that matches well with them.  That said, the TRN30 TWS adapters are my least favorite.


----------



## clerkpalmer

Pro-Jules said:


> https://www.tomsguide.com/news/apple-airpods-pro-2-could-swap-bluetooth-for-hi-res-audio-technology
> 
> Optical wireless ? Infrared?
> 
> Could this possibly find the holy grail? - Hi Res to wireless


Doesn’t strike me as a solution that apple would implement since it would clearly be fussy to deal with and would probably be appreciated by serious audiophiles. Plus all that to waste them on air pods seems unlikely. Cool idea though. Apple is all about simplicity and the user experience.


----------



## guitarizt

Ceeluh7 said:


> I am entirely like you... I did a review on Facebook. A lengthy one comparing the Aria and the t3+ and the Mele, Blon 03....the t3+ came away tops over them all. The tonality of the Aria and t3+ is very very close. If you look at a graph they are darn near identicle with the t3+ having a bit more energy in the lows and the highs. Let the t3+ burn in. It needs time, at least 50 hrs. In fact try to burn all these sets in as they will change and the drivers will settle so what you are hearing now... Like treble peaks, bloated basses at times can be helped with just burn in or what I like to do... Listen in. I also agree whole heartedly about your summary of the HE01... It isn't a technical giant but it does have great tonality and just is emphasized in the right areas. Anyways, you are spot on with what I hear regarding these sets.


I def like your tastes in iems. I love the lea, aria, and he01. The he01 reminds me a lot of my shure srh840s which I loved for years. They're both boring, but just something about them I love.



Ceeluh7 said:


> Dude.... You pre ordered the Olina? Wait... I think you told me that already. Anyways, make sure to post the verse you get because I'm sure you'll be in the first 500 that purchased it. That's great.


Hahahah yeah I couldn't resist after seeing hbb's video about them. I got in around purchase 425 I think. I'll definitely be posting the verse. It's just such a good deal to support hbb, plus I love what what he's doing with the verses and having 6/500 be free with the golden lettered cards, plus the verses with free gear. I didn't know it used the oxygen driver until you mentioned it. HBB didn't say what one it was in his video. Now I'm super excited for it.



Ceeluh7 said:


> I never thought to do that... Can you post a pick of the filed down version... I would love to put the Aria on my 3's...this group is awesome


Guess I lucked out with my utws3's. I got mmcx and using an mmcx --> 2 pin adapter, they work with my arias.


----------



## erockg

sebek said:


> Which do you prefer among the three?


See, I actually very much prefer the sound of the EQ.


----------



## nekonhime

Pro-Jules said:


> https://www.tomsguide.com/news/apple-airpods-pro-2-could-swap-bluetooth-for-hi-res-audio-technology
> 
> Optical wireless ? Infrared?
> 
> Could this possibly find the holy grail? - Hi Res to wireless


The pictures look like the vr headset and it seem it need additional device to enable the Hi res audio, so it might get expensive


----------



## Ceeluh7

erockg said:


> Here you go.  You have to cut and pull off the rings at the end of the Fiio.  Sadly, I didn’t take pics of the process.  EDIT:  Added pics of the filed down AZ09 Pro too.  Works with all my Moondrop and other 2 Pin IEMs.


Great man... I'm a follow suit. This will help alot for recessed 2 pins


----------



## Ceeluh7

guitarizt said:


> I def like your tastes in iems. I love the lea, aria, and he01. The he01 reminds me a lot of my shure srh840s which I loved for years. They're both boring, but just something about them I love.
> 
> 
> Hahahah yeah I couldn't resist after seeing hbb's video about them. I got in around purchase 425 I think. I'll definitely be posting the verse. It's just such a good deal to support hbb, plus I love what what he's doing with the verses and having 6/500 be free with the golden lettered cards, plus the verses with free gear. I didn't know it used the oxygen driver until you mentioned it. HBB didn't say what one it was in his video. Now I'm super excited for it.
> ...


Ya I have the mmcx to 2 pin adapter for my mmcx version of the Utws3 but I have to have the Fiio Fd3 on the mmcx version... The Fd3 sounds so so good on it. So I may try to do what @erockg did. If I do that I have some shrink wrap I'll add to the ends... It doesn't look like you can do this very clean looking... Well see how it turns out. 

Ya the olina is a perfected Oxygen... Same driver but a slightly wider soundstage I guess and on a hint more air up top... I mean a hint. Hbb loves the Oxygen but the fit for alot of people was really weird...


----------



## dj24

erockg said:


> Yeah, I did find that the 7 Active beat the 7 Pro in sound with the bass/sub bass.  But now, they seemed have tweaked the firmware and the 7 Active sound much better to me.  Also, the ANC seems tweaked.  It's eliminating much more than I remember here at home.  Multiparing is working flawlessly.  I'm able to switch from computer to iPhone easily.  Only two devices at a time.  From what I'm seeing on the Jabra site, the Active 7 Pro and the Elite 7 Pro both are IPX57 which seems odd, but I'll take it.  I haven't used them on any wfh Zoom calls or regular calls yet.  That'll come during the week.  These are a much better value now, especially with multi-pairing.  Really hope all the bug are gone.  So far so good.


Let us know which one of the two end up with the crown for best call quality.


----------



## dmphile

Really digging the OH10's but like any IEM, not perfect. If they were to make tweaks in the future, I'd love them to push the vocals more to the forefront. They are a little more recessed than I'd like. Otherwise, a great buy and still really enjoyable.


----------



## Phaethon

@guitarizt  It’s quite the list! The Whizzer HE01 which frustrated me from the start with the tightly constructed box. Then the ear tips wouldn’t fit over the stem. Once that was done it took another 5 minutes to make the two pin connectors pushed in. Then the right bud didn’t work. I can’t say anything about the sound quality because I never heard it!

The Tripowin TC01 had all good ingredients in the sound but it felt thin and unexciting. I’m sure it’s my ears because many love them. 

Ibasso IT07 - oh my goodness, what sound! And for $900 it should be so! But I was disappointed by the sound for that price. Not really sure what I expected! I carefully packed them back in their box. Amazon gets them back tomorrow. 

There are quite a few more but I think I’ll just do a few at a time


----------



## dmphile

erockg said:


> I'm going back and forth between the OH10 and the Kato and they're both great in different ways.  The Kato exceeds in clarity and separation by far to my ears.  One thing that is truly cool on the OH10 is the soundstage.  I'm really impressed at how wide it is.  The bass is big on the OH10, but the Kato seems to have tighter bass punch.  Love the fit of the OH10.  Kato fit, but I'm still working on perfection there.  Kato are smaller.  Neither touch my Thieaudio Clairvoyance.  The TC just fits like a glove and man, everything coalesces so perfect with them.  I'm only using my TWS adapters with all of this stuff.  KZ AZ09 Pro, UTWS3 & 5 and the TW2s.  Depending on which adapters I use, really does change up the sound.  Really hard to for me to decide if both the OH10 and Kato should stay or one should go right now.  I will say this, both of these let me to return the Mangird Tea.  The Tea aren't bad at all, but for 100 less, these can definitely compete if not exceed what I was hearing from the MT.
> 
> There is no end game.  No matter what we think!


How much of an "upgrade" do you think going from the OH10 to the clairvoyance is? How's the sound signature compare/differ?


----------



## seanjoe

scubaphish said:


> Are the B&O way better than the Klipsch (he asked somewhat unsure of his own choices 🥸)?


B&O EQ are THE BEST TWS to my ears. I have plenty tws, sony, airpods, jabra, huawei, samsung, sennheiser. non of them can beat the sound quality of EQ. but if you need more features, you can go with sony or airpods. but for sound quality, nothing can beat B&O EQ. but, still everyone have their own taste.


----------



## Phaethon

seanjoe said:


> B&O EQ are THE BEST TWS to my ears. I have plenty tws, sony, airpods, jabra, huawei, samsung, sennheiser. non of them can beat the sound quality of EQ. but if you need more features, you can go with sony or airpods. but for sound quality, nothing can beat B&O EQ. but, still everyone have their own taste.


+100. If we’re not including the Fokus


----------



## Ceeluh7

dmphile said:


> Really digging the OH10's but like any IEM, not perfect. If they were to make tweaks in the future, I'd love them to push the vocals more to the forefront. They are a little more recessed than I'd like. Otherwise, a great buy and still really enjoyable.


Ya they replay just how the graph suggests. I never thought they were too bad (vocals) but compared to other sets, you can hear the V-shape. It has its other unbelievable strengths for sure.


----------



## Ceeluh7

Phaethon said:


> @guitarizt  It’s quite the list! The Whizzer HE01 which frustrated me from the start with the tightly constructed box. Then the ear tips wouldn’t fit over the stem. Once that was done it took another 5 minutes to make the two pin connectors pushed in. Then the right bud didn’t work. I can’t say anything about the sound quality because I never heard it!
> 
> The Tripowin TC01 had all good ingredients in the sound but it felt thin and unexciting. I’m sure it’s my ears because many love them.
> 
> ...


What type of signature are you looking for. Tc01 is a teeny bit thin in some areas but very natural sounding like the Blon 03. However they aren't powerhouses. I never tried the it07, I tried a bunch of other Ibasso's but not those. This just goes to show you that in this hobby money does jot buy you a better iem. There are diamonds in the rough by talented people tuning sets in all price points. In theory better drivers and better materials and better and smarter people should buy you a great set... That's just not always the case. That stinks about the HE01... It is a very nice sounding iem man... Esp for the price. Of course there is about 10 others that really compete for best under $100 and prob more, that's just what I can count on my hands. So what type of sound sig fits you? Maybe withing the group we can find other options


----------



## Phaethon

@Ceeluh7  I am just learning how to describe what I like! I think I like a slightly warm signature with a clear and defined bass, though rumble isn’t that important to me. My need for bass is for the jazz bassists like Marcus Miller and Victor Wooten. I love vocalists so I want mids that don’t jumble them all up. For highs I like them crispy and I don’t even mind a little sibilance to make the highs sparkle. 

What I’ve kept are the OH10s, the Tin T3, the Mele, and Moondrop B2s. At the moment I’ve got the Katos and the CF Mammoth coming the next two days. I think I’d like to try a tribrid.


----------



## nekonhime

erockg said:


> See, I actually very much prefer the sound of the EQ.


So it better than Devialet? I saw one Devialet pair for 220


----------



## Juturna

nekonhime said:


> So it better than Devialet? I saw one Devialet pair for 220


I think it depends on your preference in sound signature and so on. 
I own a pair of Devialet Gemini's and I honestly don't like them that much, but that's just me and mostly everybody in here have good things to say about them. 
I just have issues getting them to sound anywhere near what I want earbuds to sound like, and they weren't comfortable in my ears either.
But if you find the sound signature to your liking they might be a good purchase.


----------



## Ceeluh7 (Jan 31, 2022)

Phaethon said:


> @Ceeluh7  I am just learning how to describe what I like! I think I like a slightly warm signature with a clear and defined bass, though rumble isn’t that important to me. My need for bass is for the jazz bassists like Marcus Miller and Victor Wooten. I love vocalists so I want mids that don’t jumble them all up. For highs I like them crispy and I don’t even mind a little sibilance to make the highs sparkle.
> 
> What I’ve kept are the OH10s, the Tin T3, the Mele, and Moondrop B2s. At the moment I’ve got the Katos and the CF Mammoth coming the next two days. I think I’d like to try a tribrid.


You may want to look up the Tin T4.... It is fantastic for vocals... A nice tight bass, it is a single DD but a fast single DD... Also the BQEYZ Spring 2....its a tribrid. For a budget set you could try the tribrid "KZ x-Crinacle Crn (Zex Pro)" When I have time to sit down I'll think of some others. Honestly with what you have coming it may just be what you are looking for. If the Kato doesn't work for you than that will help narrow down things as it is Harman tuned.


----------



## myltz400

Apple will rename some codec and say they invented it, then sue everyone that uses it.


----------



## guitarizt

Ceeluh7 said:


> You may want to look up the Tin T4.... It is fantastic for vocals... A nice tight bass, it is a single DD but a fast single DD... Also the BQEYZ Spring 2....its a tribrid. For a budget set you could try the tribrid "KZ x-Crinacle Crn (Zex Pro)" When I have time to sit down I'll think of some others. Honestly with what you have coming it may just be what you are looking for. If the Kato doesn't work for you than that will help narrow down things as it is Harman tuned.


Hmm interesting, no fh3? I have the kz crn. One of my least favs. Reminds me of a harman tuned with a bad driver. I think I really don't like what crin likes for tuning. I like more of a smothered sound, warm V, mid-bass but not a lot. Honestly, shure srh-840 over the ears and the whizzer he01 are just so good tonally for me. I'm not sure if there's a better he01.


----------



## Ceeluh7

guitarizt said:


> Hmm interesting, no fh3? I have the kz crn. One of my least favs. Reminds me of a harman tuned with a bad driver. I think I really don't like what crin likes for tuning. I like more of a smothered sound, warm V, mid-bass but not a lot. Honestly, shure srh-840 over the ears and the whizzer he01 are just so good tonally for me. I'm not sure if there's a better he01.


OH Def fh3... I thought it was you we already talked about that... Def the FH3. I would also recommend for less the Fiio Fd3 and for a bit more the Fiio fh5. You may want to check out the KBEAR Aurora as well. I'm trying to think of sets that you can find pretty easily still. Ooh why didn't I think of this set sooner... Check out the ibasso it01x...


----------



## Ceeluh7

guitarizt said:


> Hmm interesting, no fh3? I have the kz crn. One of my least favs. Reminds me of a harman tuned with a bad driver. I think I really don't like what crin likes for tuning. I like more of a smothered sound, warm V, mid-bass but not a lot. Honestly, shure srh-840 over the ears and the whizzer he01 are just so good tonally for me. I'm not sure if there's a better he01.


Anither set that I really enjoy is the kz ZAS. It retails for around $60-75ish. Or it's cousin from sister company cca is the cca ca-16 pro. The ZAS may be too bass heavy so maybe the ca16 pro.


----------



## guitarizt

Ceeluh7 said:


> OH Def fh3... I thought it was you we already talked about that... Def the FH3. I would also recommend for less the Fiio Fd3 and for a bit more the Fiio fh5. You may want to check out the KBEAR Aurora as well. I'm trying to think of sets that you can find pretty easily still. Ooh why didn't I think of this set sooner... Check out the ibasso it01x...


Thanks. For me, I'm still eyeing the TRI I3 Pro + ifi go blue as per your recommendation, and then the fh3, but maybe I'll skip it for the fh5 later.


----------



## cresny (Jan 31, 2022)

I'm really enjoying the Shuorer S12s + UTWS5 combo, which blow away any TWS I've heard. The term that comes to mind is "presence", a different world. But when listening to them wired the effect is even more pronounced. I think someone here said it's like digital and analog, and I agree, wired sounds like an expensive moving coil cartridge compared to the adapters. I'm not sure if this is more pronounced with planar though.


----------



## Ceeluh7

guitarizt said:


> Thanks. For me, I'm still eyeing the TRI I3 Pro + ifi go blue as per your recommendation, and then the fh3, but maybe I'll skip it for the fh5 later.


Sounds good man


----------



## Ceeluh7

cresny said:


> I'm really enjoying the Shuorer S12s + UTWS5 combo, which below away any TWS I've heard. The term that comes to mind is "presence", a different world. But when listening to them wired the effect is even more pronounced. I think someone here said it's like digital and analog, and I agree, wired sounds like an expensive moving coil cartridge compared to the adapters. I'm not sure if this is more pronounced with planar though.


Yes especially with planar... You can't give the planar enough power. The s12 just like the tri I3 pro, the Timeless, the P1, they all scale beautifully with power. I'm glad you like hat set with the s12. That is really good to know. Put it on the Qudelix 5k or ifi go blu and it'll open them up even more, and yes if you plug it direct to a good clean and powerful source it'll take it even further. I'd say without a doubt that the utws5 is the very least amount of output power to drive it well enough to sound good.


----------



## erockg

nekonhime said:


> So it better than Devialet? I saw one Devialet pair for 220


For me, I'd go Fokus, Devialet Gemini and then the EQ.  The Gemini are great, but they do have only about 4 hours battery in my experience.  Devialet was supposed to release a firmware to address the battery life issues but that's nowhere to be found yet.  Gemini have an incredible soundstage (especially on dynamic mode) and the ANC is better than most.  That said, the case is larger than the EQ and IMO, the EQ are a really sexy looking set and the build quality is top notch.  Volume is lower on the EQ compared to the others, but the B&O sound signature is something I've always loved.  ANC is great, but not at good as the Gemini.  All the above said, the only pair I still have in my TWS collection is the Fokus.  You do sacrifice ambient mode, ANC and wireless charging with the Fokus, but the sound is just amazing on them and for my and my workflow, really makes up for the features lost.


----------



## The Jojo

Folks, 

I just bought the Technics EAH-AZ60. The sound really blows me away - it's bright, wide and comes with massive bass if I want it to. ANC is good, call quality rocks, the app is fantastic, but: they're too large for my ears. It's that simple. After a while they feel uncomfortable. I'm heartbroken. 

Could you point me to wireless IEMs that are smaller, no matter the brand? I've used JABRA Elite 75t for years and their size really feels good. Are there comparable newer IEMs (with ANC) that are equally small or even smaller in size? 

Chers!


----------



## erockg

The Jojo said:


> Folks,
> 
> I just bought the Technics EAH-AZ60. The sound really blows me away - it's bright, wide and comes with massive bass if I want it to. ANC is good, call quality rocks, the app is fantastic, but: they're too large for my ears. It's that simple. After a while they feel uncomfortable. I'm heartbroken.
> 
> ...


I just re-purchased the Jabra Elite 7 Pro after they finally updated the firmware with multi-point.  So far, they sound better, ANC is slightly better and multipoint is working flawless.  They're a bit smaller than the 75T.  I've had all the Jabra buds and the form factor of these are my favorite.  I have zero fit issues, they're small and light.  Tons of other options out there, depending on your budget.


----------



## nekonhime

erockg said:


> For me, I'd go Fokus, Devialet Gemini and then the EQ.  The Gemini are great, but they do have only about 4 hours battery in my experience.  Devialet was supposed to release a firmware to address the battery life issues but that's nowhere to be found yet.  Gemini have an incredible soundstage (especially on dynamic mode) and the ANC is better than most.  That said, the case is larger than the EQ and IMO, the EQ are a really sexy looking set and the build quality is top notch.  Volume is lower on the EQ compared to the others, but the B&O sound signature is something I've always loved.  ANC is great, but not at good as the Gemini.  All the above said, the only pair I still have in my TWS collection is the Fokus.  You do sacrifice ambient mode, ANC and wireless charging with the Fokus, but the sound is just amazing on them and for my and my workflow, really makes up for the features lost.


4 hours of play time isn't enough for me as the battery will deteriorated overtime, and I need kinda ok anc to ignore my housemate of being a total psycho so I will go with the eq then. Thanks a lot.


----------



## erockg

nekonhime said:


> 4 hours of play time isn't enough for me as the battery will deteriorated overtime, and I need kinda ok anc to ignore my housemate of being a total psycho so I will go with the eq then. Thanks a lot.


I'd get the Fokus and lose the roommate


----------



## Ceeluh7

erockg said:


> I'd get the Fokus and lose the roommate


LOL! 🤣 I gotta get on this Fokus train soon


----------



## Phaethon

Ceeluh7 said:


> OH Def fh3... I thought it was you we already talked about that... Def the FH3. I would also recommend for less the Fiio Fd3 and for a bit more the Fiio fh5. You may want to check out the KBEAR Aurora as well. I'm trying to think of sets that you can find pretty easily still. Ooh why didn't I think of this set sooner... Check out the ibasso it01x...


I agree on the iBasso it01x. It’s a very exciting sound produced by really small IEMs


----------



## LordToneeus

The Jojo said:


> Folks,
> 
> I just bought the Technics EAH-AZ60. The sound really blows me away - it's bright, wide and comes with massive bass if I want it to. ANC is good, call quality rocks, the app is fantastic, but: they're too large for my ears. It's that simple. After a while they feel uncomfortable. I'm heartbroken.
> 
> ...


Where did you find them?  They seem to be all sold out and backordered stateside.


----------



## Phaethon

Ceeluh7 said:


> Yes especially with planar... You can't give the planar enough power. The s12 just like the tri I3 pro, the Timeless, the P1, they all scale beautifully with power. I'm glad you like hat set with the s12. That is really good to know. Put it on the Qudelix 5k or ifi go blu and it'll open them up even more, and yes if you plug it direct to a good clean and powerful source it'll take it even further. I'd say without a doubt that the utws5 is the very least amount of output power to drive it well enough to sound good.


I’m going to vociferously agree on this! Any IEMs I try sound best with the Ibasso DX300. Open, exciting and clearly accurate with no extraneous coloring I can identify. I love the OH10s. Are the Tri I3s different from them enough to justify the expense?


----------



## nekonhime

erockg said:


> I'd get the Fokus and lose the roommate


Maybe after I move out lol, I already pay rent until June with no refund


----------



## The Jojo

LordToneeus said:


> Where did you find them?  They seem to be all sold out and backordered stateside.



I'm in Europe, we can order them to be delivered within 24 hours here. 

If you can get them and your ears are big enough, you'll get an amazing pair of TWS earbuds. I'm SO close to keeping them even though they're kind of uncomfortable. If you tweak the EQ, using them on the bus really comes close to spending an afternoon with big ol' headphones and a wonderful record collection.


----------



## Ceeluh7

Phaethon said:


> I’m going to vociferously agree on this! Any IEMs I try sound best with the Ibasso DX300. Open, exciting and clearly accurate with no extraneous coloring I can identify. I love the OH10s. Are the Tri I3s different from them enough to justify the expense?


They are different. The TRI I3 Pro are a slight bit warmer but the resolution is better to me. The Planar does an excellent job with these and they are truly the best of all worlds with the DD handling the lows and the Planar and BA handling the Mids & Highs. Another thing which is so great is how cohesive the sound is and how well they tuned this set to have all drivers work so well together. The I3 Pro to me is very nice. I do like it a bit better than the oh10 but that is me. The Bass Is big but controlled and the drivers are fast in complicated songs... It gets better with use as well. I don't know if it's worth the upgrade to you but I can say that these Def do not sound the same outside of the Bass. There is some great reviews out there of it... I enjoyed the original I3 so much I had to get this set. The more power the better but it sounds great with even a qudelix or ifi go blu. I haven't tried it with the utws5... I don't know why. I would be worried that it wouldn't open up satisfactory for me. I'll try when I get home


----------



## Ceeluh7

Phaethon said:


> I’m going to vociferously agree on this! Any IEMs I try sound best with the Ibasso DX300. Open, exciting and clearly accurate with no extraneous coloring I can identify. I love the OH10s. Are the Tri I3s different from them enough to justify the expense?


Hey BTW... How do you like the ibasso DX300? I am thinking of getting another DAP this year. I sold a few of mine and still only have the FIIO M11. I heard great reviews of the DX300. Just wondering. The M11 has been good to me but I find the dongles that I use (Fiio Ka3, Shanling Ua2) sound just as good as well as the IFi Go Blu, Qudelix 5k,and btr5. I do like a dap alot, I love the idea of having all my music in one player but I just don't know if I want to spend so much for one again. If it was good enough and the performance of Android was smooth enough. The M11 is seemless as far as the performance of Android but it is a couple years old. Not that it lacks for power either as it can really drive anything out there but to have a newer model would be good...


----------



## Phaethon

Ceeluh7 said:


> Hey BTW... How do you like the ibasso DX300? I am thinking of getting another DAP this year. I sold a few of mine and still only have the FIIO M11. I heard great reviews of the DX300. Just wondering. The M11 has been good to me but I find the dongles that I use (Fiio Ka3, Shanling Ua2) sound just as good as well as the IFi Go Blu, Qudelix 5k,and btr5. I do like a dap alot, I love the idea of having all my music in one player but I just don't know if I want to spend so much for one again. If it was good enough and the performance of Android was smooth enough. The M11 is seemless as far as the performance of Android but it is a couple years old. Not that it lacks for power either as it can really drive anything out there but to have a newer model would be good...


The DX300 is the real deal. The screen is just so amazing. The android is as fast as that on my android LG V60 and fun to tweak with Developer options on. The DAC is fantastic and the amp can drive everything I’ve thrown at it. Only quibble is that Apple Music will not let you download to it. Fortunately I got Amazon Music Unlimited when I could get at $7.99 a month. But all my good playlists are on Apple! Anyway the DX300 is incredible in all aspects.


----------



## Ceeluh7 (Jan 31, 2022)

Phaethon said:


> The DX300 is the real deal. The screen is just so amazing. The android is as fast as that on my android LG V60 and fun to tweak with Developer options on. The DAC is fantastic and the amp can drive everything I’ve thrown at it. Only quibble is that Apple Music will not let you download to it. Fortunately I got Amazon Music Unlimited when I could get at $7.99 a month. But all my good playlists are on Apple! Anyway the DX300 is incredible in all aspects.


So I download and burn all my music, mostly flac and some enormous sd cards so that shouldn't be an issue. I was waiting for a dap that is quick enough and the DX300 is almost twice the output power of the M11. I think the M11 is 550 mw on balanced compared to like 1,100 or something on the DX300... If I remember correct. It is very pricey but man it looks nice. I love the build quality of ibasso... Ergh... Dude this looks nice


----------



## BooleanBones

Ceeluh7 said:


> LOL! 🤣 I gotta get on this Fokus train soon


I am standing next to a guy cutting rebar in the street right now and Clapton unplugged is sounding sweet. The passive seal I am getting is great. Hardly hear that gas powered cutter he is using.


----------



## Ceeluh7

BooleanBones said:


> I am standing next to a guy cutting rebar in the street right now and Clapton unplugged is sounding sweet. The passive seal I am getting is great. Hardly hear that gas powered cutter he is using.


Dude I have 3 acres to cut which takes me too long... Gotta have straight lines... Anyways, that'd be nice for cutting grass for sure. I used to weld a few years back, that was before we had decent tws. I would've loved to be welding and have tunes in my ear without a freaking cable. Regardless... I want the focus, looking at priorities. Hopefully soon


----------



## nekonhime

BooleanBones said:


> I am standing next to a guy cutting rebar in the street right now and Clapton unplugged is sounding sweet. The passive seal I am getting is great. Hardly hear that gas powered cutter he is using.


Now you tempting me to get one lol


----------



## erockg

Phaethon said:


> @Ceeluh7  I am just learning how to describe what I like! I think I like a slightly warm signature with a clear and defined bass, though rumble isn’t that important to me. My need for bass is for the jazz bassists like Marcus Miller and Victor Wooten. I love vocalists so I want mids that don’t jumble them all up. For highs I like them crispy and I don’t even mind a little sibilance to make the highs sparkle.
> 
> What I’ve kept are the OH10s, the Tin T3, the Mele, and Moondrop B2s. At the moment I’ve got the Katos and the CF Mammoth coming the next two days. I think I’d like to try a tribrid.


Been using the OH10 and the Kato today with the Fiio UTWS3 and TW2 adapters.  I'm leaning towards sending back the OH10 and pitting the Kato against the Hana 2021 which I'll have tomorrow.  Popped the Kato on my TW2 and they fit very well even with the 2 Pin adapter.  Put a little EQ on them to add a little bass and boom!  I find that they have more clarity and punch than the Ikko.  I like the bass and soundstage on the OH10, but the Kato seems cleaner.  I definitely do not dislike the OH10, just feel like Kato does it better.  The tuning is more to my liking.  Curious what you find.


----------



## BooleanBones

BooleanBones said:


> Right there with you on your notes. It was earlier noted that they may get a bit choppy when out in the common areas of town. I have not had a chance to try that yet with mine. Different audio class than my others for sure, love em.


So, today I finally had the chance to get my Fokus out and about in a noisy, electronically busy area and did not experience anything that I haven’t here at home. Actually listened to an album while tailgating my wife around the store with a cart. Very satisfied


----------



## Phaethon

erockg said:


> Been using the OH10 and the Kato today with the Fiio UTWS3 and TW2 adapters.  I'm leaning towards sending back the OH10 and pitting the Kato against the Hana 2021 which I'll have tomorrow.  Popped the Kato on my TW2 and they fit very well even with the 2 Pin adapter.  Put a little EQ on them to add a little bass and boom!  I find that they have more clarity and punch than the Ikko.  I like the bass and soundstage on the OH10, but the Kato seems cleaner.  I definitely do not dislike the OH10, just feel like Kato does it better.  The tuning is more to my liking.  Curious what you find.


It really seems like we all shadow each other through our hobby! I’ve got the Kato waiting for me today and the Hana 2021on Thursday! Lol


----------



## dmphile

So much for my end game search... I got the itch again and ordered FH3 from Amazon to see how they compare to OH10's. I'm also itching for Clairvoyance for some reason....


----------



## erockg

Phaethon said:


> It really seems like we all shadow each other through our hobby! I’ve got the Kato waiting for me today and the Hana 2021on Thursday! Lol


Man, if you think those are great, I'm here WFH cranking Soundgarden's Badmotorfinger on the Theiaudio Clairvoyance with the UTWS5 TWS adapters and it's pure heaven.  I do like the other IEMs but these are just euphoric.  Obsessing about trying more along these lines.


----------



## dmphile

erockg said:


> Man, if you think those are great, I'm here WFH cranking Soundgarden's Badmotorfinger on the Theiaudio Clairvoyance with the UTWS5 TWS adapters and it's pure heaven.  I do like the other IEMs but these are just euphoric.  Obsessing about trying more along these lines.


I figured it out, you got me interested in the TA Clairvoyance since you paired them with the UTWS5 as well. LoL


----------



## erockg

dmphile said:


> I figured it out, you got me interested in the TA Clairvoyance since you paired them with the UTWS5 as well. LoL


They're really great.  They fit me perfectly.  I'm looking at the original Monarch or the Monarch MK2 (if it's ever in stock again here in the US).  Some will say it's not worth it, but I am truly loving them and use them every day.  I can see why they're highly regarded in some circles.  I could probably buy ten pairs of cheaper stuff, but figure why not just have a few incredible sets to pull from.  But don't let me convince you!  I don't want to make anyone sad if they get them and hate them


----------



## dmphile (Jan 31, 2022)

erockg said:


> They're really great.  They fit me perfectly.  I'm looking at the original Monarch or the Monarch MK2 (if it's ever in stock again here in the US).  Some will say it's not worth it, but I am truly loving them and use them every day.  I can see why they're highly regarded in some circles.  I could probably buy ten pairs of cheaper stuff, but figure why not just have a few incredible sets to pull from.  But don't let me convince you!  I don't want to make anyone sad if they get them and hate them


Honestly, as much as I like the OH10's, they're just not quite hitting the sweet spot yet. I'm still searching for that one that just gives me goose bumps on most tracks.  If you've had a chance to compare the OH10's to the Clairvoyance, can you describe the difference between the two?  I do like forward vocals, a warmer sound signature with emphasized sub-bass. I'm not too particularly concerned about a clinical / detail sound profile (although it is appreciated) I would prefer soundstage, imaging and instrument separation more than the technical prowess of an IEM.

Ps. I don't know how to read the frequency graphs so I have zero knowledge or interpretation of them. :/


----------



## erockg

dmphile said:


> Honestly, as much as I like the OH10's, they're just not quite hitting the sweet spot yet. I'm still searching for that one that just gives me goose bumps on most tracks.  If you've had a chance to compare the OH10's to the Clairvoyance, can you describe the difference between the two?  I do like forward vocals, a warmer sound signature with emphasized sub-bass. I'm not too particularly concerned about a clinical / detail sound profile (although it is appreciated) I would prefer soundstage, imaging and instrument separation more than the technical prowess of an IEM.


If I could sum them up in one word -- smooth.  I can listen to them all day.  They're not fatiguing to my ears.  They're universally molded and light, so they slot it my ears perfect.  Some may feel they're too large.  Depending on what you listen to, they have nice, not Moondrop Variations, but still have nice sub-bass.  They are warm enough.  It's hard to compare a DD like the OH10 to what the C have.  The C have 8 different drivers.  Not that a DD IEM can't be killer.  I'd say the soundstage, imaging and separation on the C are better than the OH10 and I have the OH10 in front of me.  The OH10 aren't bad.  Folks love the bass on the Ikko.  Soundstage on the OH10 is surprisingly wide.  I just prefer the tuning on the C.  I listen to a ton of rock, hard rock, stoner rock and old school metal, movie scores and much more.  I'm using the C on the UTWS5s with no EQ.


----------



## erockg

dmphile said:


> Honestly, as much as I like the OH10's, they're just not quite hitting the sweet spot yet. I'm still searching for that one that just gives me goose bumps on most tracks.  If you've had a chance to compare the OH10's to the Clairvoyance, can you describe the difference between the two?  I do like forward vocals, a warmer sound signature with emphasized sub-bass. I'm not too particularly concerned about a clinical / detail sound profile (although it is appreciated) I would prefer soundstage, imaging and instrument separation more than the technical prowess of an IEM.
> 
> Ps. I don't know how to read the frequency graphs so I have zero knowledge or interpretation of them. :/


RE: Graphs.  I take them with a grain of salt.  I'm no pro either.  But I do use them to see what I gravitate towards.  Either way, IEMs may look the same on a graph but the tuning could be so different in my experience.  Plus, form factor for me can make or break a bud.  If you can't wear it, why bother, you know?  But if you get a great seal and that IEM or bud slots in like a glove, you're golden.  Two headphones I have now are like that, the Noble Fokus Pro and the Clairvoyance.  I never have an issue with a perfect fit once I find a good tip for them.  The Fokus, I literally popped them out of the box, put them on and never looked back.  The Clairvoyance, I bought them knowing they were going on a Fiio 5 adapter and then found some great ePro tips that are perfect.


----------



## Ceeluh7

erockg said:


> RE: Graphs.  I take them with a grain of salt.  I'm no pro either.  But I do use them to see what I gravitate towards.  Either way, IEMs may look the same on a graph but the tuning could be so different in my experience.  Plus, form factor for me can make or break a bud.  If you can't wear it, why bother, you know?  But if you get a great seal and that IEM or bud slots in like a glove, you're golden.  Two headphones I have now are like that, the Noble Fokus Pro and the Clairvoyance.  I never have an issue with a perfect fit once I find a good tip for them.  The Fokus, I literally popped them out of the box, put them on and never looked back.  The Clairvoyance, I bought them knowing they were going on a Fiio 5 adapter and then found some great ePro tips that are perfect.


Agree about graphs. They can help give you an idea about how much volume is given to a certain frequency which allows for a slight idea about how things are going to sound. I say it all the time to not rely on graphs but they can help. If it's higher on the left=warmer presentation, higher on the right=cooler presentation. I normally wait to listen to a set first so I don't get too clouded in judgment and also listen and read a bunch of reviews. Glad you are loving the Clairvoyance man... I have yet to listen to them. Also with its sensitivity it seems really good for the utws5.


----------



## Ceeluh7

dmphile said:


> So much for my end game search... I got the itch again and ordered FH3 from Amazon to see how they compare to OH10's. I'm also itching for Clairvoyance for some reason....


The FH3 have more forward vocals, a hair more sub bass but a bit less mid bass  which is good for the Mids not being congested. The highs are not piercing at all and the signature leans warmer. It still carries good separation and imaging for the price. 

If you don't mind... How much are you looking to spend? There are certainly better iems than the FH3 but obviously you'd have to spend more but I'd say for many the FH3 is one of the better sets under 200. That being said there are many sets in that price range. Are you looking to go into the $500 territory? You don't have to answer any of this I was just wondering. We all have different tastes and our endgame iems are not always the same... Not that there is an end game, seems fun to pretend though.. Lol


----------



## dmphile

Ceeluh7 said:


> The FH3 have more forward vocals, a hair more sub bass but a bit less mid bass  which is good for the Mids not being congested. The highs are not piercing at all and the signature leans warmer. It still carries good separation and imaging for the price.
> 
> If you don't mind... How much are you looking to spend? There are certainly better iems than the FH3 but obviously you'd have to spend more but I'd say for many the FH3 is one of the better sets under 200. That being said there are many sets in that price range. Are you looking to go into the $500 territory? You don't have to answer any of this I was just wondering. We all have different tastes and our endgame iems are not always the same... Not that there is an end game, seems fun to pretend though.. Lol


Honestly, I laugh and tell myself that I have 'limits' but I also know price doesn't always = quality or signature that I'm looking for, so that being said, I'd be willing to go up to the TA Clairvoyances price range to get what I'm looking for.  But ideally, if I can stay below $500, I'd be happy. Notice how last time my price range was $200? LoL, I'm slowly working my way up thanks to all the folks here. hah


----------



## dmphile

erockg said:


> If I could sum them up in one word -- smooth.  I can listen to them all day.  They're not fatiguing to my ears.  They're universally molded and light, so they slot it my ears perfect.  Some may feel they're too large.  Depending on what you listen to, they have nice, not Moondrop Variations, but still have nice sub-bass.  They are warm enough.  It's hard to compare a DD like the OH10 to what the C have.  The C have 8 different drivers.  Not that a DD IEM can't be killer.  I'd say the soundstage, imaging and separation on the C are better than the OH10 and I have the OH10 in front of me.  The OH10 aren't bad.  Folks love the bass on the Ikko.  Soundstage on the OH10 is surprisingly wide.  I just prefer the tuning on the C.  I listen to a ton of rock, hard rock, stoner rock and old school metal, movie scores and much more.  I'm using the C on the UTWS5s with no EQ.


Very helpful, thanks for this. I may consider trying the C's if I can find a retailer that offers a good return policy. Not many of those in Canada unfortunately so I may have to be patient and enjoy the OH10's for now until it's sold by a local vendor.


----------



## Caipirina

I managed to wrangle my APP out of my wife's clutches (giving her the QCY HT01 in return  )  and guys, I am falling all over in love again with those APPs !!! Wanted to check how they compare to the Beats Fit Pro and also check those 'new' features in iOS I have not discovered yet ... AND finally tried those 6 months free with Apple Music and checking out Dolby Atmos / spatial sound ... and I keep running the batteries dry on my airpods. Wife is already annoyed that I constantly have music in my ears now (since we are still both working from home, she notices that a lot) ... now .. I am tempted to send the Beats Fit Pro back .. they are overall pretty great, but the APP are still better in everything (Sound / ANC) IMHO, maybe I just get better fit with them ...   I wonder if sending them back will cancel my 6 months free trial with Apple Music though ...   thinking that this saves me 60$ ... I am kinda leaning towards keeping the Beats .. it also hurts me knowing that the chances of them being repackaged / resold are slim and they just add to the e-waste pile .. 
Anyways .. but I am also ready to pull the trigger on the AZ60 on Thursday, might have a chance to listen to a few things ...


----------



## FYLegend

New Lypertek is being anounced on February 2. Unfortunately, the previews they're trickling out suggest they will have stems. I thought this would be the year we got rid of stems in favour of improved microphone and noise cancellation technology.

https://www.instagram.com/p/CZXDH3VI9RQ/


----------



## BooleanBones

Caipirina said:


> I managed to wrangle my APP out of my wife's clutches (giving her the QCY HT01 in return  )  and guys, I am falling all over in love again with those APPs !!! Wanted to check how they compare to the Beats Fit Pro and also check those 'new' features in iOS I have not discovered yet ... AND finally tried those 6 months free with Apple Music and checking out Dolby Atmos / spatial sound ... and I keep running the batteries dry on my airpods. Wife is already annoyed that I constantly have music in my ears now (since we are still both working from home, she notices that a lot) ... now .. I am tempted to send the Beats Fit Pro back .. they are overall pretty great, but the APP are still better in everything (Sound / ANC) IMHO, maybe I just get better fit with them ...   I wonder if sending them back will cancel my 6 months free trial with Apple Music though ...   thinking that this saves me 60$ ... I am kinda leaning towards keeping the Beats .. it also hurts me knowing that the chances of them being repackaged / resold are slim and they just add to the e-waste pile ..
> Anyways .. but I am also ready to pull the trigger on the AZ60 on Thursday, might have a chance to listen to a few things ...


After adding the epro tips to mine, it made a night and day difference for music listening on them. I have always used mine for calls or move playback while mobile, but the tips change made them much better sounding.


----------



## Ceeluh7

FYLegend said:


> New Lypertek is being anounced on February 2. Unfortunately, the previews they're trickling out suggest they will have stems. I thought this would be the year we got rid of stems in favour of improved microphone and noise cancellation technology.
> 
> https://www.instagram.com/p/CZXDH3VI9RQ/


Ya I saw that... Not much info at all.


----------



## dmphile

What are ppls opinion between the Clairvoyance vs Xenns UP?


----------



## erockg

dmphile said:


> What are ppls opinion between the Clairvoyance vs Xenns UP?


🤷 never tried them on this end. I did my research and chose the former. I know Bad Guy likes them. Outside of that, I haven’t heard much about them but maybe someone else here has.


----------



## ldo77

erockg said:


> I just re-purchased the Jabra Elite 7 Pro after they finally updated the firmware with multi-point.  So far, they sound better, ANC is slightly better and multipoint is working flawless.  They're a bit smaller than the 75T.  I've had all the Jabra buds and the form factor of these are my favorite.  I have zero fit issues, they're small and light.  Tons of other options out there, depending on your budget.


Can You compare jabra élite 7 vs 85t and 75 sonicaly speaking  ?


----------



## guitarizt

dmphile said:


> So much for my end game search... I got the itch again and ordered FH3 from Amazon to see how they compare to OH10's. I'm also itching for Clairvoyance for some reason....


Oh man I'm interested in this comparison.


----------



## Caipirina

BooleanBones said:


> After adding the epro tips to mine, it made a night and day difference for music listening on them. I have always used mine for calls or move playback while mobile, but the tips change made them much better sounding.


Interesting and tempting. In the past I could not get fancy things like this, but now with amazon.jp at reach, sure enough I see them there. Are they oval shaped? It is tricky to see on the pictures, it kinda says oval shaped in the description. I think one of the great fit reasons for me is that oval shape.


----------



## dmphile

guitarizt said:


> Oh man I'm interested in this comparison.


They're arriving today. Will post my impressions after a few hours on my fav tracks.


----------



## scubaphish

BooleanBones said:


> After adding the epro tips to mine, it made a night and day difference for music listening on them. I have always used mine for calls or move playback while mobile, but the tips change made them much better sounding.


Do they hold in your ears better, too?  I’ve gone back to my APP for more than calls recently and finding them slipping out of my ears. Wondering how the ePro handle it. Thnx


----------



## dmphile (Feb 1, 2022)

erockg said:


> 🤷 never tried them on this end. I did my research and chose the former. I know Bad Guy likes them. Outside of that, I haven’t heard much about them but maybe someone else here has.


Saw that video. As I was reading through his comments section, one of the viewers asked which one he'd pick between the two and he actually recommended the UP's over the C's for those that want a similar sound signature with a bit more emphasis on the bass. The XENNS might be right up my alley. 

Maybe somebody can help me interpret this graph lol. I'm trying to read through a tutorial on how to interpret but I'm sure somebody here like @Ceeluh7 will already know how they differ or are similar based on this.


----------



## guitarizt

dmphile said:


> Saw that video. As I was reading through his comments section, one of the viewers asked which one he'd pick between the two and he actually recommended the UP's over the C's for those that want a similar sound signature with a bit more emphasis on the bass. The XENNS might be right up my alley.
> 
> Maybe somebody can help me interpret this graph lol. I'm trying to read through a tutorial on how to interpret but I'm sure somebody here like @Ceeluh7 will already know how they differ or are similar based on this.


Wish I could hear those two. From the graph I'd guess I'd like the UP more. I'll have to start looking up the graphs of my iems more now that I'm pretty familiar with how they sound.


----------



## Ceeluh7 (Feb 1, 2022)

dmphile said:


> Saw that video. As I was reading through his comments section, one of the viewers asked which one he'd pick between the two and he actually recommended the UP's over the C's for those that want a similar sound signature with a bit more emphasis on the bass. The XENNS might be right up my alley.
> 
> Maybe somebody can help me interpret this graph lol. I'm trying to read through a tutorial on how to interpret but I'm sure somebody here like @Ceeluh7 will already know how they differ or are similar based on this.


The graph shows the UP having a bit less of a soundstage as it rolls off in the treble area a bit. The up has a nice decline from the sub bass to the Mid Bass and isn't as steep of a hill which will give male vocals some more weight but not enough to congest things. I like that both sets are well extended thru the sub bass and not rolling off at all... That's great. The C has a bit more air up top, just enough to be noticeable. The UP will be a warmer sounding set by a slight degree. Honestly I love this type of graph. Both sets will have good bass, nice mids which aren't too far back for vocals and instruments and female vocals and the treble area (cymbals etc) will have enough air to be heard, more so on the C in this case. Truthfully though, from the graph, take that for what it is, these two should sound an awful lot alike with the C sounding a hair wider and a hair brighter up top.

There's more you can get from this graph but that is the jist about the differences between the two


----------



## guitarizt

Ok I hate graphs. I love the lea, and hate is a strong weird but I strongly dislike the cz crn. They're so similar though. Surprised the lea has more treble from 2k to 5k. The crn sounds so trebly to me.


----------



## Ceeluh7

guitarizt said:


> Ok I hate graphs. I love the lea, and hate is a strong weird but I strongly dislike the cz crn. They're so similar though. Surprised the lea has more treble from 2k to 5k. The crn sounds so trebly to me.


So that is the upper mids where the Lea has more volume. However the treble area is where the crn has that peak and then a steep roll off similar to the lea but the lea is less pronounced. The bass difference would be noticeable on this set. Of the two I would like the lea more... Even though I like bass I'd go with the Lea... Just based on the graph. Seriously tho, graphs can only tell you so much man. It doesn't tell you Timbre, imaging, resolution and all the intangibles. Or for instance different drivers look different on a graph. You can gain alot from them but also you can't gain enough from a graph to get a perfect conclusion. It's good to know a graph but to listen to reviews and listen for yourself... That's most important. Also, it may have not been graphed well. Look to Crin, BGGAR, precogvision, super review, and a couple others who have large databases of iems that are graphed


----------



## BooleanBones

scubaphish said:


> Do they hold in your ears better, too?  I’ve gone back to my APP for more than calls recently and finding them slipping out of my ears. Wondering how the ePro handle it. Thnx


I would say possibly better to be honest. I have had no problems at all. I never really got a good deal with the stock tips, but do with the epros.


----------



## BooleanBones

Caipirina said:


> Interesting and tempting. In the past I could not get fancy things like this, but now with amazon.jp at reach, sure enough I see them there. Are they oval shaped? It is tricky to see on the pictures, it kinda says oval shaped in the description. I think one of the great fit reasons for me is that oval shape.


I will take some pics for you when I get back home.


----------



## clerkpalmer

Looks like the Philips will be releasing soon.  Look like a compelling package despite the size:

https://www.t3.com/us/reviews/philips-fidelio-t1-review

I may give them a run.


----------



## jant71

FYLegend said:


> New Lypertek is being anounced on February 2. Unfortunately, the previews they're trickling out suggest they will have stems. I thought this would be the year we got rid of stems in favour of improved microphone and noise cancellation technology.
> 
> https://www.instagram.com/p/CZXDH3VI9RQ/


They early bird gets the worm my friend... https://www.head-fi.org/threads/goi...e-we-there-yet.861024/page-2769#post-16756936


----------



## nekonhime

clerkpalmer said:


> Looks like the Philips will be releasing soon.  Look like a compelling package despite the size:
> 
> https://www.t3.com/us/reviews/philips-fidelio-t1-review
> 
> I may give them a run.


Now anc earbuds and headphones are just price gouging for Christ sake.


----------



## jant71 (Feb 1, 2022)

clerkpalmer said:


> Looks like the Philips will be releasing soon.  Look like a compelling package despite the size:
> 
> https://www.t3.com/us/reviews/philips-fidelio-t1-review
> 
> I may give them a run.


Hate reviews like that though. Talks about amazing sound then you read and it sounds like they think the Sony has the same level of SQ and the PI7 has better SQ. Kinda gets your hopes up and you learn you can probably stick with the Sony in the end.

Shame as they announced these long ago and if they could have delivered 6 months ago they would be more special. Lucky for them CES was lacking in TWS for the most part.


----------



## clerkpalmer

jant71 said:


> Hate reviews like that though. Talks about amazing sound and all that but then you read and it sounds like they think the Sony has the same level of SQ and the PI7 has better SQ. Kinda gets your hopes up and you learn you can probably stick with the Sony in the end.
> 
> Shame as they announced these long ago and if they could have deliverd 6 months ago they would be more special. Lucky for them CES was lacking in TWS for the most part.


Yeah agreed.  I'm not taking stock in the review but Philips can definitely hang in the headphone world.  I've always enjoyed their sound signature on their cans.  Total fail on the release though.  Probably supply chain issues but just stop announcing stuff if you can't deliver.


----------



## nekonhime

jant71 said:


> Hate reviews like that though. Talks about amazing sound then you read and it sounds like they think the Sony has the same level of SQ and the PI7 has better SQ. Kinda gets your hopes up and you learn you can probably stick with the Sony in the end.
> 
> Shame as they announced these long ago and if they could have deliverd 6 months ago they would be more special. Lucky for them CES was lacking in TWS for the most part.


Also, this look like the sony xm3 lol but it support Ldac and 9 hours of listening with anc on is quite something


----------



## clerkpalmer

nekonhime said:


> Also, this look like the sony xm3 lol but it support Ldac and 9 hours of listening with anc on is quite something


Yes, plus a dual BA plus DD driver set up.  Now I'm getting impatient - it's only been 6 months.


----------



## Ceeluh7

nekonhime said:


> Also, this look like the sony xm3 lol but it support Ldac and 9 hours of listening with anc on is quite something


I didn't read thru it all... Real quick do we know what kind or how many drivers are in these. I wouldn't think they'd go with a hybrid but who knows...

Edit-I see my question was just answered


----------



## jant71

nekonhime said:


> Also, this look like the sony xm3 lol but it support Ldac and 9 hours of listening with anc on is quite something


Is It though? My AT gets 15 hours with ANC on. 9 Hours with LDAC and ANC on would be something. The Sony does LDAC and gets 8 hours with ANC on and is smaller. Might have been better with a bit more premium amp chip in there(there is the room) and get 6 with ANC on but have even better SQ befitting the Fidelio Brand and trying to claim the SQ crown even coming out later than it might have. Annnd erockg would have gotten one for sure but now if they are possibly not better sounding than the Sony it will make for a more laborious choice for him.


----------



## erockg

jant71 said:


> Is It though? My AT gets 15 hours with ANC on. 9 Hours with LDAC and ANC on would be something. The Sony does LDAC and gets 8 hours with ANC on and is smaller. Might have been better with a bit more premium amp chip in there(there is the room) and get 6 with ANC on but have even better SQ befitting the Fidelio Brand and trying to claim the SQ crown even coming out later than it might have. Annnd erockg would have gotten one for sure but now if they are possibly not better sounding than the Sony it will make for a more laborious choice for him.


Whoa, looking at those things, wearing them might tune in frequencies unknown... like alien contact?  They're HUGE!


----------



## erockg

ldo77 said:


> Can You compare jabra élite 7 vs 85t and 75 sonicaly speaking  ?


It's been so long since I've had the 85T and 75 that I just don't remember much.  Personally, I'd get the latest tech.  I do remember the 85T didn't insert as far as the 75 or 7.  Very happy with the Elite 7 Pro, although the Elite Active 7 might be a better fit because it's wrapped in silicone.  Took them outside for a 3 mile walk, no issues with music or calls.


----------



## clerkpalmer

erockg said:


> Whoa, looking at those things, wearing them might tune in frequencies unknown... like alien contact?  They're HUGE!


It's true but since I don't leave the house like ever, no matter to me.  Maybe philips will start a new fashion trend... everyone will be rocking those saucers.  In any event, now I want them and I'm annoyed they are on preorder with no actual ship date.  And Focus camera wants to charge me shipping which is a no no in my book.  Free shipping or I'll shop elsewhere.


----------



## dmphile

Here we go!


----------



## jant71

erockg said:


> Whoa, looking at those things, wearing them might tune in frequencies unknown... like alien contact?  They're HUGE!


Right which is the reason you wanted to hear they sound better than the Sony and PI7 so you would overlook that. Now you are torn!



clerkpalmer said:


> It's true but since I don't leave the house like ever, no matter to me.  Maybe philips will start a new fashion trend... everyone will be rocking those saucers.  In any event, now I want them and I'm annoyed they are on preorder with no actual ship date.  And Focus camera wants to charge me shipping which is a no no in my book.  Free shipping or I'll shop elsewhere.


Gotta have free shipping when you get to that price. Not just free but Fed Ex or other 2 day for free.


----------



## Ceeluh7

dmphile said:


> Here we go!


What are you driving them with, or listening to them on... Curious, BTW, nice man


----------



## Ceeluh7

erockg said:


> Whoa, looking at those things, wearing them might tune in frequencies unknown... like alien contact?  They're HUGE!


Dude.... You were rocking the Shures not too long ago... Now those things are out of whack BIG


----------



## dmphile (Feb 1, 2022)

Ceeluh7 said:


> What are you driving them with, or listening to them on... Curious, BTW, nice man


Using them with UTWS5 rn, I temporarily swapped out my OH10's. I can also hook them up wired to my SMSL Sanskrit DAC and L30 AMP stack.

10 mins in listening to some of my favourite tracks and they got me moving. I was not expecting this type of warmth, smoothness and musicality TBH but it's pretty darn good so far...and the mid/sub-bass... just wow. If you're a basshead, these will likely satisfy. Which is the arena I think I fall in. Vocals are beautiful sitting in the front and detailed with a nice amount of air. I actually think these sound MORE like the B&O Beoplay EQ's than the OH10's in terms of sonic quality, tuning and bass emphasis with slightly less on the soundstage and imaging. But the bass quality and quantity feels very much like the EQ's. The upper range is smooth and doesn't feel harsh or too bright. Could probably listen to these for hours long. OH10's are a little brighter and do slightly better on the treble detail.

I didn't think it would put up a good fight against the OH10's but boy was I wrong. Initial impressions is that I almost prefer them over the OH10's. They are more narrow on soundstage and imaging compared to OH10's so far but they're not bad at all, it's average to my ears. More thoughts to come after a few more hours. I should also mention that I listen to all genres of music within my library. Jazz, EDM, Classical, Movie scores, Rock, House, Pop, Hip Hop


----------



## Ceeluh7

dmphile said:


> Using them with UTWS5 rn, I temporarily swapped out my OH10's. 10 mins in listening to some of my favourite tracks and they got me moving. I was not expecting this type of warmth, smoothness and musicality TBH but it's pretty darn good so far... more thoughts to come after a few more hours. I can also hook them up wired to my SMSL Sanskrit DAC and L30 AMP stack


That's great man, no doubt they punch above their price point quite easily at least for me, we all like what we like


----------



## erockg

Ceeluh7 said:


> Dude.... You were rocking the Shures not too long ago... Now those things are out of whack BIG


Yeah, they were definitely boats, but for some reason they kind of faded away when I wore them. That said, the fit was just not working for me at all. Shure beats Phillips any day in my opinion.  But I am always open to be proven wrong!  Oddly enough, my SE846s are sitting in a drawer and could possibly be sold soon because these other IEMs are getting all the love!


----------



## erockg

clerkpalmer said:


> It's true but since I don't leave the house like ever, no matter to me.  Maybe philips will start a new fashion trend... everyone will be rocking those saucers.  In any event, now I want them and I'm annoyed they are on preorder with no actual ship date.  And Focus camera wants to charge me shipping which is a no no in my book.  Free shipping or I'll shop elsewhere.


Saucers.  Brilliant.  Yeah Focus can be shady.  I know for camera gear I avoid them.  BH Photo!!!


----------



## erockg

jant71 said:


> Right which is the reason you wanted to hear they sound better than the Sony and PI7 so you would overlook that. Now you are torn!
> 
> 
> Gotta have free shipping when you get to that price. Not just free but Fed Ex or other 2 day for free.


You are a manipulator and I bow down to you.


----------



## dmphile

Ceeluh7 said:


> That's great man, no doubt they punch above their price point quite easily at least for me, we all like what we like


Agree, they definitely punch above their weight. I could be pretty happy with these and OH10's. Will likely sell my Timeless but I know I would still itch for something in the upper echelons of the IEM world like the C's or UP's. Not sure if it's worth that massive bump given how good these already sound to my ears. lol


----------



## nekonhime

jant71 said:


> Is It though? My AT gets 15 hours with ANC on. 9 Hours with LDAC and ANC on would be something. The Sony does LDAC and gets 8 hours with ANC on and is smaller. Might have been better with a bit more premium amp chip in there(there is the room) and get 6 with ANC on but have even better SQ befitting the Fidelio Brand and trying to claim the SQ crown even coming out later than it might have. Annnd erockg would have gotten one for sure but now if they are possibly not better sounding than the Sony it will make for a more laborious choice for him.


How the AT compared to the EQ, xm4, mw08 and T5 II?


----------



## Ceeluh7

dmphile said:


> Agree, they definitely punch above their weight. I could be pretty happy with these and OH10's. Will likely sell my Timeless but I know I would still itch for something in the upper echelons of the IEM world like the C's or UP's. Not sure if it's worth that massive bump given how good these already sound to my ears. lol


It is whatever it's worth to you. No doubt that there is a quality difference but at that point it is incremental. However those increments make a difference. There are so many great iems in the 400 plus... Dude do some research and if you decide to go that route then you have plenty to choose from. I think you are at least getting an idea of your preferences. As far as the FH3... Honestly I like it more than the Fh5 which has been praised greatly, I like it more than the fd5. There is a naturalness in the sound and a clarity that is hard to find in hybrids imo... There is cohesion. Also please take this into account... Fiio has beryllium drivers and it takes quite awhile to break in beryllium. It gets better as it goes. You may want to just leave them play as you sleep.


----------



## Ceeluh7

erockg said:


> Yeah, they were definitely boats, but for some reason they kind of faded away when I wore them. That said, the fit was just not working for me at all. Shure beats Phillips any day in my opinion.  But I am always open to be proven wrong!  Oddly enough, my SE846s are sitting in a drawer and could possibly be sold soon because these other IEMs are getting all the love!


Ya man... Those Shure Se846's used to be amazing, and they are to a degree but.... What is coming from the east just is changing the game. You have compiled some impressive sets man. I'm glad you checked them out and were happy with what you found so far. I wish I had money to throw down like I used to... "KIDS"..... So I am partially living thru you and others to a degree... Lol. I have to save up for a bit to get what I want anymore... Ha... Oh well


----------



## bladefd

clerkpalmer said:


> Looks like the Philips will be releasing soon.  Look like a compelling package despite the size:
> 
> https://www.t3.com/us/reviews/philips-fidelio-t1-review
> 
> I may give them a run.


Wow, great battery life for LDAC. Looks like solid build quality and versatile. The design looks very much like the Sony xm3 as it juts out so may not be very good for side sleepers unfortunately.


----------



## erockg

Ceeluh7 said:


> Ya man... Those Shure Se846's used to be amazing, and they are to a degree but.... What is coming from the east just is changing the game. You have compiled some impressive sets man. I'm glad you checked them out and were happy with what you found so far. I wish I had money to throw down like I used to... "KIDS"..... So I am partially living thru you and others to a degree... Lol. I have to save up for a bit to get what I want anymore... Ha... Oh well


Eh, I get the kids thing.  The only way I can do all this is to sacrifice other gear.  Sad but true!


----------



## erockg

Alright folks, so I'm on my usual Tuesday Zoom-fest and these dang Jabra Elite 7 Pro decided to mute themselves over and over.  No idea why.  They were working great on the calls and then mute on, mute off, mute on, mute off.  Tried to access them through the app and see if I can turn it off permanently, but the app freezes on iOS and won't let me do anything.  Thanks Jabra, appreciate it.


----------



## Ceeluh7

erockg said:


> Eh, I get the kids thing.  The only way I can do all this is to sacrifice other gear.  Sad but true!


Right on bro... You've done a heck of a job in your choices. I have alot I have to unload... Very soon. Too many iems need to go, so many thru the years. Way too many tws, daps, dongles... I'm a take a page out of your book...ha


----------



## erockg

Ceeluh7 said:


> Right on bro... You've done a heck of a job in your choices. I have alot I have to unload... Very soon. Too many iems need to go, so many thru the years. Way too many tws, daps, dongles... I'm a take a page out of your book...ha


Gotta do it.  Better than having them forgotten and collect dust.  Strike with they're worth a few pennies.  It's the cheaper stuff that gets me sometimes.  I'll say, oh, it's only $50 bucks and then the next one, oh, look, only 60.  Then I have nowhere to put them all LOL.  I've been really narrowing down things.  I say this as the Hana and the Urbanista Lisbon are out for delivery.  Sigh...


----------



## BooleanBones

BooleanBones said:


> I will take some pics for you when I get back home.


----------



## dmphile

Ceeluh7 said:


> It is whatever it's worth to you. No doubt that there is a quality difference but at that point it is incremental. However those increments make a difference. There are so many great iems in the 400 plus... Dude do some research and if you decide to go that route then you have plenty to choose from. I think you are at least getting an idea of your preferences. As far as the FH3... Honestly I like it more than the Fh5 which has been praised greatly, I like it more than the fd5. There is a naturalness in the sound and a clarity that is hard to find in hybrids imo... There is cohesion. Also please take this into account... Fiio has beryllium drivers and it takes quite awhile to break in beryllium. It gets better as it goes. You may want to just leave them play as you sleep.


For sure. Cohesion is a very accurate word to describe the sound signature of the FH3's. It seems to make sense to my ears and brain. Instrument placement, bass, treble and vocals are very harmonious in the way they come together. It just makes sense. It's also warm and pretty smooth to me. Sacrifice a little of soundstage and imaging but its a tradeoff I'm potentially willing to make for now...


----------



## Ceeluh7

dmphile said:


> For sure. Cohesion is a very accurate word to describe the sound signature of the FH3's. It seems to make sense to my ears and brain. Instrument placement, bass, treble and vocals are very harmonious in the way they come together. It just makes sense. It's also warm and pretty smooth to me. Sacrifice a little of soundstage and imaging but its a tradeoff I'm potentially willing to make for now...


Well said. I would agree about the soundstage and imaging is average I would say. Resolution is high, tonality is great with good extension both ways and is non fatiguing. It is a good set to ride on until something much better.


----------



## jant71 (Feb 1, 2022)

erockg said:


> Gotta do it.  Better than having them forgotten and collect dust.  Strike with they're worth a few pennies.  It's the cheaper stuff that gets me sometimes.  I'll say, oh, it's only $50 bucks and then the next one, oh, look, only 60.  Then I have nowhere to put them all LOL.  I've been really narrowing down things.  I say this as the Hana and the Urbanista Lisbon are out for delivery.  Sigh...


Or it's only $47.22. Just bought something of the TWS variety. Gotta try that brand I haven't yet and they do the pause the music when ambient turns on thing.






What color Lisbon did you get?


----------



## clerkpalmer

erockg said:


> Alright folks, so I'm on my usual Tuesday Zoom-fest and these dang Jabra Elite 7 Pro decided to mute themselves over and over.  No idea why.  They were working great on the calls and then mute on, mute off, mute on, mute off.  Tried to access them through the app and see if I can turn it off permanently, but the app freezes on iOS and won't let me do anything.  Thanks Jabra, appreciate it.


How fast can you say (or type) return?


----------



## jwong

erockg said:


> Gotta do it.  Better than having them forgotten and collect dust.  Strike with they're worth a few pennies.  It's the cheaper stuff that gets me sometimes.  I'll say, oh, it's only $50 bucks and then the next one, oh, look, only 60.  Then I have nowhere to put them all LOL.  I've been really narrowing down things.  I say this as the Hana and the Urbanista Lisbon are out for delivery.  Sigh...



The cheap stuff is harder to unload too. I have a box in the closet with old IEMs and such that just weren't worth enough to sell. I've had the Comfobuds Pro on classifieds for a while for cheap, but there's not much interest. On the contrary I've been able to sell every high dollar head-fi item I didn't want to keep.

I think the lesson, which I should share with my wife, is it's best to stick to higher end items.


----------



## erockg

jwong said:


> The cheap stuff is harder to unload too. I have a box in the closet with old IEMs and such that just weren't worth enough to sell. I've had the Comfobuds Pro on classifieds for a while for cheap, but there's not much interest. On the contrary I've been able to sell every high dollar head-fi item I didn't want to keep.
> 
> I think the lesson, which I should share with my wife, is it's best to stick to higher end items.


Totally agree.  You (most of the time) get what you pay for.


----------



## erockg

clerkpalmer said:


> How fast can you say (or type) return?


This just in!  I read a fix on Reddit.  Turns out there was a setting in Zoom that triggers Mute.  Dumb and annoying.  I'll test on my next Zoom and report back.


----------



## guitarizt

Ceeluh7 said:


> So that is the upper mids where the Lea has more volume. However the treble area is where the crn has that peak and then a steep roll off similar to the lea but the lea is less pronounced. The bass difference would be noticeable on this set. Of the two I would like the lea more... Even though I like bass I'd go with the Lea... Just based on the graph. Seriously tho, graphs can only tell you so much man. It doesn't tell you Timbre, imaging, resolution and all the intangibles. Or for instance different drivers look different on a graph. You can gain alot from them but also you can't gain enough from a graph to get a perfect conclusion. It's good to know a graph but to listen to reviews and listen for yourself... That's most important. Also, it may have not been graphed well. Look to Crin, BGGAR, precogvision, super review, and a couple others who have large databases of iems that are graphed


Yeah def it's just weird because on the graph these two look similar, but to me in real life they sound very diff. The lea sounds closer to the aria and he01 to me. CRN is in another camp all to itself.


----------



## erockg

jant71 said:


> Or it's only $47.22. Just bought something of the TWS variety. Gotta try that brand I haven't yet and they do the pause the music when ambient turns on thing.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Here you go!


----------



## erockg (Feb 1, 2022)

Regarding the Urbanista Lisbon after a little listening...  They have _zero_ passive isolation and _no ANC_.  These cost $39 on Amazon.  They are TINY.  They feel like you're wearing nothing in your ears.  Sound is okay.  Depends on what you're listening to, but better than I expected.  I think they're great if you need something extremely low profile and want to be able to hear everything around you.  Great for books, a ball game on the radio, music while folks are around you in an office or maybe even at home.  You can lower the volume and still hear conversations.  They remind me of the first gen AirPods without a stalk.  Similar to the Earin A-3 but with wingtips for a much better fit.  Zero bugs and better than the Earin at 1/5 the price IMO.   They have full controls, volume, play/pause, skip tracks, Siri or whatever assistant you have.  I haven't used them on a call yet, or tried them laying down in bed.  I'm guessing they won't stay secure, but I may give it a shot.  I usually like pure silence in bed.  Oh and supposedly they have a 9 hour battery life in the buds themselves.  Anyway, initial thoughts.


----------



## dmphile

Need some help interpreting this graph comparison between the FH3 and Mangird UPs


----------



## guitarizt

Tanchjim Tanya's just came in. Got them based on Michael Bruce's reviews and videos of them on yt. My first impressions are that I'm blown away by these. Think I like them more than the aria, and perhaps my fav sub $100 iem. I need more time though!

Maybe not the best for this thread as the cable isn't detachable.


----------



## erockg

guitarizt said:


> Tanchjim Tanya's just came in. Got them based on Michael Bruce's reviews and videos of them on yt. My first impressions are that I'm blown away by these. Think I like them more than the aria, and perhaps my fav sub $100 iem. I need more time though!
> 
> Maybe not the best for this thread as the cable isn't detachable.


You know, I just got Tanchjim Hana today.  I'm returning them.  It was an easy decision.  I really like the Kato more.  Different strokes for different folks for sure.  I thought the Kato sounded more full.  More punch and the fit was nicer.  I didn't like the look of the Hana.  Rose gold and white.  Odd choice.  Only tried them both on my TW2 adapters.  Both played well and even better with a little EQ.  They do sound similar, the Hana sounded warmer, but I'd have to give the edge to the Kato.  One negative about the Kato is that they have nozzle filters that unscrew.  One side came loose after probably taking them in and out a lot.  That said, I do recommend them.


----------



## Ceeluh7 (Feb 1, 2022)

dmphile said:


> Need some help interpreting this graph comparison between the FH3 and Mangird UPs


They are very similar... XU may have a little more forward vocals. XU appears more linear in the upper mids thru on out. Fh3 looks a bit more extended in the sub bass but not by much...Truthfully these two appear to be close with the FH3 perhaps having a bit more warmth and body to male vocals while the XU will likely be a bit more lean in that area. These are both V shaped yet without any really scooped mids. There is only so much you can get from a graph especially with two sets like this that don't have any crazy peaks to differentiate. The FH3 has a 5k peak in the mid-treble or the presence region which may give vocals an edge to them but if there is too much it can create like a nasaly vocal. Obviously that is not the case with the FH3, at least I haven't heard it. They should have similar tonality with the XU being a bit more forward in the upper mids to the lowet treble. Honestly it's hard to dissect without hearing them. I'm sure the XU has superior internals which you would likely hear in replay but I am only speculating as the XU has 2 est drivers, 4 BA drivers and 1 DD. How cohesive it is... I don't know, from reviews of the unit I'd say they did a great job. I'm no expert though and have just gleaned my understanding from spending time in the hobby man. Always best to listen to different reviews and hear for yourself. I'm sure the XU is a good upgrade from the FH3. Another difficult thing to take into account is the est drivers and what part of the freq they are taking on, where they put the crossovers... Idk?


----------



## Ceeluh7

erockg said:


> You know, I just got Tanchjim Hana today.  I'm returning them.  It was an easy decision.  I really like the Kato more.  Different strokes for different folks for sure.  I thought the Kato sounded more full.  More punch and the fit was nicer.  I didn't like the look of the Hana.  Rose gold and white.  Odd choice.  Only tried them both on my TW2 adapters.  Both played well and even better with a little EQ.  They do sound similar, the Hana sounded warmer, but I'd have to give the edge to the Kato.  One negative about the Kato is that they have nozzle filters that unscrew.  One side came loose after probably taking them in and out a lot.  That said, I do recommend them.


Ha.. Alot of people I'm sure would come to the same conclusion. The Kato are very nice. I liked the clarity of the Hana more and it is a bit more extended up top, as I listen to so many genres of music... but the Kato was very well done and it is a great set to have. I got used to the color scheme and with the right cable It looks pretty nice. The Hana need a bit more power, not to a crazy extent but with a balanced cable they sound very nice as I'm sure would be the case with the Kato. I'm glad you like it man, I can't wait to see what Moondrop comes up with next. Next on my radar as far as iems go is the Tripowin Olina. I just got very good word from a solid and reliable source that there is virtually no difference between it and the Tanchjim Oxygen.... Don't know when it will come stateside as you can only buy it at linsoul. I'm too impatient for that. It'll make it to Amazon soon


----------



## Ceeluh7

guitarizt said:


> Tanchjim Tanya's just came in. Got them based on Michael Bruce's reviews and videos of them on yt. My first impressions are that I'm blown away by these. Think I like them more than the aria, and perhaps my fav sub $100 iem. I need more time though!
> 
> Maybe not the best for this thread as the cable isn't detachable.


No these are great considering they are $20. They are really nice. Anything Tanchjim touches is awesome and the Tanya is no exception. This hobby is crazy, with a lil ingenuity these companies are selling much cheaper sets yet doing wonders in the tuning dept.


----------



## dmphile

Ceeluh7 said:


> They are very similar... XU may have a little more forward vocals. XU appears more linear in the upper mids thru on out. Fh3 looks a bit more extended in the sub bass but not by much...Truthfully these two appear to be close with the FH3 perhaps having a bit more warmth and body to male vocals while the XU will likely be a bit more lean in that area. These are both V shaped yet without any really scooped mids. There is only so much you can get from a graph especially with two sets like this that don't have any crazy peaks to differentiate. The FH3 has a 5k peak in the mid-treble or the presence region which may give vocals an edge to them but if there is too much it can create like a nasaly vocal. Obviously that is not the case with the FH3, at least I haven't heard it. They should have similar tonality with the XU being a bit more forward in the upper mids to the lowet treble. Honestly it's hard to dissect without hearing them. I'm sure the XU has superior internals which you would likely hear in replay but I am only speculating as the XU has 2 est drivers, 4 BA drivers and 1 DD. How cohesive it is... I don't know, from reviews of the unit I'd say they did a great job. I'm no expert though and have just gleaned my understanding from spending time in the hobby man. Always best to listen to different reviews and hear for yourself. I'm sure the XU is a good upgrade from the FH3. Another difficult thing to take into account is the est drivers and what part of the freq they are taking on, where they put the crossovers... Idk?


Thanks man. Appreciate the analysis. Just getting more educated on this. I'm not in a rush and I'm still enjoying the FH3s/OH10. One thing I can say is that I do enjoy the fullness of the FH3 sound signature especially the bass emphasis and forward vocals more than the OH10 bass and vocals. Honestly, if I could have the exact same sonic qualities of the FH3 with better imaging and soundstage that would be pretty close to my (temporary) end game. xD

My timeless is up for sale since it's a bit too fatiguing for my ears.


----------



## Caipirina

BooleanBones said:


>


And ordered! Thanks


----------



## Caipirina

1MORE has something new in the pipeline apparently. 99$


----------



## ldo77

Did someone test the CCA CC4 ?


----------



## Juturna (Feb 2, 2022)

I still have to say that the Technics EAH-AZ60 are probably my favorite TWS ever so far, and I've tried so many different TWS's before. Maybe not as many as some of you, but probably still... 15+ pairs maybe?

There are some quirks with them that I don't love, but after using Wavelet to EQ them they sound so damn good. 

I don't like the battery life on them (both buds and case) with LDAC and the connection seems a whole lot weaker compared to AAC on an iPhone, and I'm having the issue when putting them back in the charging case that the LED on the case starts blinking furiously because one of the buds aren't put back correctly. I think it's something with the connectors/pins on either the buds or in the case that hinders it from charging properly unless i'm extremely deliberate with how I put them in or something.
Those are about the only complaints I have with the buds at this point.

I wish I could find the Fokus Pro's here where I live so I could compare them, because if they're better than this (which all of you are making me think) then just... wow.


----------



## Ceeluh7

ldo77 said:


> Did someone test the CCA CC4 ?


I have been wondering about the KZ and CCA tws for quite some time but just haven't pulled the trigger on them. All reports say the SQ on a couple of the sets aren't too bad. I have no clue about the CC4, I would like to know too


----------



## Ceeluh7

Scarbir.com has the Lypertek Z5 review up if any here were wondering a bit about them. He also has a link to Amazon. He says they have a more balanced sound. Bigger sub bass while attenuating the mid bass and bringing some nice air to the sound... Sub par ANC compared to the competition and great transparency mode. I don't see me spending $120 on them but they don't look bad at all. It seems as Lypertek may be going back to the sound sig of the original Tevis.


----------



## Ceeluh7

Fellas anyone looking for a great set for adapters and just a great set in general... Check out "Chifi Audio Reviews" review on YouTube of the Tripowin Hbb Olina... I trust Jason's opinion completely, the guy has heard everything out there and let me tell you... This set looks to be the true giant killer. Alot of buzz around this set and I cannot wait for it to come stateside. It is on sale now at Linsoul. Easy to drive it'd be nice for adapters and if you have more powerful stuff it will only scale with the power. This is the exact driver of the Tanchjim Oxygen and the graph is darn near identicle so....same driver as the best Single DD under $500 and maybe more and it is confirmed by all the people who have this in thier hands... It is a more comfortable Oxygen. Figured I'd pass that along


----------



## dmphile

Ceeluh7 said:


> Fellas anyone looking for a great set for adapters and just a great set in general... Check out "Chifi Audio Reviews" review on YouTube of the Tripowin Hbb Olina... I trust Jason's opinion completely, the guy has heard everything out there and let me tell you... This set looks to be the true giant killer. Alot of buzz around this set and I cannot wait for it to come stateside. It is on sale now at Linsoul. Easy to drive it'd be nice for adapters and if you have more powerful stuff it will only scale with the power. This is the exact driver of the Tanchjim Oxygen and the graph is darn near identicle so....same driver as the best Single DD under $500 and maybe more and it is confirmed by all the people who have this in thier hands... It is a more comfortable Oxygen. Figured I'd pass that along


My wallet! argh


----------



## guitarizt

Ceeluh7 said:


> Fellas anyone looking for a great set for adapters and just a great set in general... Check out "Chifi Audio Reviews" review on YouTube of the Tripowin Hbb Olina... I trust Jason's opinion completely, the guy has heard everything out there and let me tell you... This set looks to be the true giant killer. Alot of buzz around this set and I cannot wait for it to come stateside. It is on sale now at Linsoul. Easy to drive it'd be nice for adapters and if you have more powerful stuff it will only scale with the power. This is the exact driver of the Tanchjim Oxygen and the graph is darn near identicle so....same driver as the best Single DD under $500 and maybe more and it is confirmed by all the people who have this in thier hands... It is a more comfortable Oxygen. Figured I'd pass that along


Thanks, just watched. They look awesome. Can't wait for mine to ship. It's nice they're so close to the oxygen because that was on my radar after realizing that I Michael Bruce's preferences are similar to my own, and he recommends the oxygen.


----------



## Ceeluh7

dmphile said:


> My wallet! argh


You and me both... Argh!


----------



## Ceeluh7 (Feb 2, 2022)

guitarizt said:


> Thanks, just watched. They look awesome. Can't wait for mine to ship. It's nice they're so close to the oxygen because that was on my radar after realizing that I Michael Bruce's preferences are similar to my own, and he recommends the oxygen.


OH man... I'm telling you a Jason Lucas Rec is a good set man. He hasn't steered me wrong yet and he has a good ear. I'm stoked man. This is good for the hobby


----------



## Luchyres (Feb 2, 2022)

Edit: Whoops! I misread. 

I'm quite enjoying the AT-CKS50TW - just got them from Amazon Japan. I wish the case was 20% smaller, but really enjoying the sound and bass. Excited to try them out for Zoom and Phone calls.


----------



## Phaethon

I’m thinking I need to stop grabbing all these low-end “punches above their weight” since it all adds up to something that “punches above its weight” in the upper end of mid-range prices.  At the moment I’m looking at the Empire Ears Bravado MK II or Thieaudio Monarch. Thoughts?


----------



## erockg (Feb 2, 2022)

Phaethon said:


> I’m thinking I need to stop grabbing all these low-end “punches above their weight” since it all adds up to something that “punches above its weight” in the upper end of mid-range prices.  At the moment I’m looking at the Empire Ears Bravado MK II or Thieaudio Monarch. Thoughts?


I'm going to try the Monarch soon, because the Monarch MK2 is OOS everywhere.   And you know me, I truly love the Clairvoyance.  EDIT:  Not to mention the Moondrop Variations.  Using them now on the UTWS3 listening to Baroness and they sure do shine.  Sub-bass is incredible.  Vocals feel like he's sitting next to me.  ANOTHER EDIT:  Switched to the Clairvoyance and man, I just love them more than the Variations.  They just do everything right in my ears.


----------



## Ceeluh7

Phaethon said:


> I’m thinking I need to stop grabbing all these low-end “punches above their weight” since it all adds up to something that “punches above its weight” in the upper end of mid-range prices.  At the moment I’m looking at the Empire Ears Bravado MK II or Thieaudio Monarch. Thoughts?


If you can do it... It's a good theory. There is quite alot to choose from man.


----------



## darveniza

Luchyres said:


> Edit: Whoops! I misread.
> 
> I'm quite enjoying the AT-CKS50TW - just got them from Amazon Japan. I wish the case was 20% smaller, but really enjoying the sound and bass. Excited to try them out for Zoom and Phone calls.


Yep case is big. I like the button controls and their app


----------



## LordToneeus

erockg said:


> I'm going to try the Monarch soon, because the Monarch MK2 is OOS everywhere.   And you know me, I truly love the Clairvoyance.  EDIT:  Not to mention the Moondrop Variations.  Using them now on the UTWS3 listening to Baroness and they sure do shine.  Sub-bass is incredible.  Vocals feel like he's sitting next to me.  ANOTHER EDIT:  Switched to the Clairvoyance and man, I just love them more than the Variations.  They just do everything right in my ears.


Oooooh, Baroness.  They sucked me right in with the Red album back in the day.


----------



## Luchyres

Luchyres said:


> Edit: Whoops! I misread.
> 
> I'm quite enjoying the AT-CKS50TW - just got them from Amazon Japan. I wish the case was 20% smaller, but really enjoying the sound and bass. Excited to try them out for Zoom and Phone calls.


Feedback was that I sound great on Zoom using a Macbook Pro with the CKS50TW!  Even more exciting that it handled a phone call in the middle of the Zoom call as well as my Beats Fit Pro (transitioned to phone when I answered and back to laptop after - very smoothly). 




darveniza said:


> Yep case is big. I like the button controls and their app


Button Controls are nice for sure and the app is a little touchy in my experience, but has all the things you need.


----------



## erockg

LordToneeus said:


> Oooooh, Baroness.  They sucked me right in with the Red album back in the day.


They're great live too.  Was listening to Yellow & Green today.  Good stuff!


----------



## Not so fat head

If the new Shure TWS’s have a sound stage like the Bose sound sports free’s, then I’m in for $199…
It’s all about that sound stage.  I think you need a larger cavity to resonate the sound to create the open space effect.
Also looks like they have open back pressure release holes, which contributes..


----------



## guitarizt

Not so fat head said:


> If the new Shure TWS’s have a sound stage like the Bose sound sports free’s, then I’m in for $199…
> It’s all about that sound stage.  I think you need a larger cavity to resonate the sound to create the open space effect.
> Also looks like they have open back pressure release holes, which contributes..


Interesting, I feel like big sound stages mess with me when I'm doing sports stuff or even just out and about. Wish I could try the bose sports, great reviews, but the batt life and price steer me away. I'm getting to be a snob, I usually like using my btr5 wired.


----------



## dmphile

I'm torn, having seen the BGGAR video on the Xenns up saying that it's like the Claire's with more bass, makes me want to pull the trigger on them but I'm also curious about the Claire's since their reputation supercedes what I've read about them and they seem to be the type of sound I would like. I do admit that I'm a bit of a basshead.... Decisions decisions


----------



## voicemaster

Ceeluh7 said:


> Fellas anyone looking for a great set for adapters and just a great set in general... Check out "Chifi Audio Reviews" review on YouTube of the Tripowin Hbb Olina... I trust Jason's opinion completely, the guy has heard everything out there and let me tell you... This set looks to be the true giant killer. Alot of buzz around this set and I cannot wait for it to come stateside. It is on sale now at Linsoul. Easy to drive it'd be nice for adapters and if you have more powerful stuff it will only scale with the power. This is the exact driver of the Tanchjim Oxygen and the graph is darn near identicle so....same driver as the best Single DD under $500 and maybe more and it is confirmed by all the people who have this in thier hands... It is a more comfortable Oxygen. Figured I'd pass that along


I ordered the Olina right away because I love HBB tuning on the Mele, how comfortable it is to wear and build like a tank.


----------



## Ceeluh7

voicemaster said:


> I ordered the Olina right away because I love HBB tuning on the Mele, how comfortable it is to wear and build like a tank.


I completely agree. The Mele are one of my best fitting sets. Man I was hoping Amazon would pick this set up quick like they did the Mele’s but I think I'm just going to have to order and wait thru Linsoul. Everytime I've ordered from them it hasn't been too bad... Better than Ali... Anyways, that's fantastic man, I know this will be a great set. I love that Tripowin isn't just gouging because of a name and giving absolute quality at an easier price point. This is great for our hobby man. The fact that these sound identicle to the oxygen at $99 is absolutely absurd and this will def help bring quality to the market. That's awesome man


----------



## Caipirina (Feb 3, 2022)

Luchyres said:


> Edit: Whoops! I misread.
> 
> I'm quite enjoying the AT-CKS50TW - just got them from Amazon Japan. I wish the case was 20% smaller, but really enjoying the sound and bass. Excited to try them out for Zoom and Phone calls.


Oh, so you ordered them directly! Glad you like'em. Chance has it that I took just now a break from re-loving my APP and put in the ATCK .. and I am warming up to them again .. I mean, that battery life is fantastic ... and I happen across this atmospheric ambience track on YT  ... check it out with them for some awesome sub bass rumble .... 

(actually, I just did an A/B with the APP and their new e-pro tips, there is a sub bass rumble at exactly 3:36, which the AT play wonderfully and the APP do not pick up at all, at least with my old trash ears ... )

And tomorrow I am going to listen to (and possibly buy) the Technics AZ60 ..

what is wrong with me?  (oh, right, I forgot, I have GAS)


----------



## Caipirina (Feb 3, 2022)

Found some more info on the 1more PistonBuds Pro ...

This 'review' claims the ANC is better than the Comfobuds Pro ...

https://www.qucox.com/1more-pistonbuds-pro-review/

From their aliexpress link I was able to put it in the cart for 70$ (instead of the earlier 99$) .



and there still might be coupons available?
I hate when they game-ify it like that .. I end up seeing it for close to 50 and feel like 'now I HAVE to buy them, what a steal!'

Dangit! Already down to 62.72$ and there are still those CNY coupons which seem to be not active yet … that could be another 5$ off?



And here is a (Chinese Audio only) unboxing video. (correction: this is a rather extensive review video with ANC test / mic test / Audio example / latency test ... )


----------



## ScrofulousBinturong

Are there any TWS IEMs where the charging case is deep/wide enough for large tips? I mean normal large, not grotesque. I've tried a few and the tips never fit into the case


----------



## tiagopinto

Tommy C said:


> You know, Bay Bloor Radio in Toronto has a super cool setup with listening stations where you can test all their headphones, IEMs and TWS. It's an awesome place, you know if you ever want to get that itch out of the system lol
> Or the Amazon route. They will take it back if you choose they are not for you, but you know that.



While living in Toronto, I spent quite a few afternoons “attached” to that wall and that corner with the counter, on the lower floor, trying stuff out. Back and forth, now this one, now that one, now back to the other one... amazing store!


----------



## tiagopinto

jant71 said:


> Not sure how big the 1More actually are. AT probably a slight bit bigger but certainly a different shape. Weight is the same though 8g and 7.9g for the buds and the 1More is 79g with the case and the AT is 76g with the case.
> 
> I see there is an english manual now...
> https://www.audio-technica.co.jp/do.../Content/True-Wireless/ATH-CKS50TW/index.html
> ...



I can’t find the ATH-CKS50TW in the European AT website. Only the ATH-ANC300TW... Are the the EU counterpart or am I missing something? Thanks.


----------



## Caipirina

tiagopinto said:


> I can’t find the ATH-CKS50TW in the European AT website. Only the ATH-ANC300TW... Are the the EU counterpart or am I missing something? Thanks.


Nope, not the same / counter part .. seems that currently they are Japan only, hence @Luchyres wrote a few posts back he got his set from Japan, while he appears to be in Puerto Rico ... at least Amazon ships internationally in most cases


----------



## Ceeluh7

Have any of you gentle-folk ever tried these Yamahas out? They are 73% off on Amazon US for only $34. Just scrolling and seeing what's out there and came across these. I've never listened to any Yamaha tws so.... Just curious. Yamaha TW3A.


----------



## Phaethon

erockg said:


> I'm going to try the Monarch soon, because the Monarch MK2 is OOS everywhere.   And you know me, I truly love the Clairvoyance.  EDIT:  Not to mention the Moondrop Variations.  Using them now on the UTWS3 listening to Baroness and they sure do shine.  Sub-bass is incredible.  Vocals feel like he's sitting next to me.  ANOTHER EDIT:  Switched to the Clairvoyance and man, I just love them more than the Variations.  They just do everything right in my ears.


The Monarch MK II is at headphones.com 
https://www.headphones.com/collections/thieaudio/products/thieaudio-monarch
I have one in my cart and a sinking feeling in my gut…


----------



## Phaethon

ScrofulousBinturong said:


> Are there any TWS IEMs where the charging case is deep/wide enough for large tips? I mean normal large, not grotesque. I've tried a few and the tips never fit into the case


I’ve fit everything in the Shure TW2 charging case. @Ceeluh7 ?


----------



## Ceeluh7

Phaethon said:


> I’ve fit everything in the Shure TW2 charging case. @Ceeluh7 ?


I wouldn't know man. I don't have the Shure TW2. Id like to though. If the case is anything like Fiio's than yes alot will fit. However I think he is talking about using 3rd party tips on regular tws which I agree with him. So many tws sets have only enough room for the eartips that come with the Earbud and if you try for a different ear tip it likely will not fit in the case. Example... Neobuds Pro... Very nice set of tws however the stinking eartips are absolutely disgraceful and do nothing to help the SQ. I tried so many tips but almost none of them would fit in the stupid case. I think that is what he is referring to but I may be wrong about that.


----------



## Phaethon (Feb 3, 2022)

Ceeluh7 said:


> I wouldn't know man. I don't have the Shure TW2. Id like to though. If the case is anything like Fiio's than yes alot will fit. However I think he is talking about using 3rd party tips on regular tws which I agree with him. So many tws sets have only enough room for the eartips that come with the Earbud and if you try for a different ear tip it likely will not fit in the case. Example... Neobuds Pro... Very nice set of tws however the stinking eartips are absolutely disgraceful and do nothing to help the SQ. I tried so many tips but almost none of them would fit in the stupid case. I think that is what he is referring to but I may be wrong about that.


When I get to work I’ll do a side by side photo of it with the TRN adapter. It’s a much larger case. The Fiio and TRN cases are much smaller. The Shure case fits in a coat pocket or a bag handily but not in the pockets of jeans without some embarrassment.


----------



## guitarizt

ScrofulousBinturong said:


> Are there any TWS IEMs where the charging case is deep/wide enough for large tips? I mean normal large, not grotesque. I've tried a few and the tips never fit into the case



The utws3 case has a huge cavity for the iem and tips. The galaxy pro case is small, and I use the large tips that come with them with np.


----------



## Tommy C

Phaethon said:


> I’ve fit everything in the Shure TW2 charging case. @Ceeluh7 ?


I own the Shure TW2. The case is pretty huge and offers plenty of room. I use it only with the stock SE215 and UE900 though with zero issues.


----------



## sebek

In your opinion, do you get a better SQ with a more or less entry level wired iem like Moondrop Aria / Starfield or a Sony Wf-1000XM3 / XM4 and the various Galaxy Buds?


----------



## Tenlow

It's been a couple of months since I purchased (and sent back) my B&O EQs. 

Yesterday, I accidentally saw an online offer for an "almost new" pair of EQs for 270€ - exactly one month old and pretty much unused - and pulled the trigger again 😂 

I somehow missed them despite all their flaws that made me sell them in the first place aka fairly "low" max volume, no track skipping functionality, average ANC and battery life. Back then it was just not worth 400€ for me even though the sound was great. 

So, turns out the sound is still great  They still feel premium and I still like the case very much. The flaws are also still present, it seems. I thought maybe some firmware updates have changed a couple of things in the meantime. 

Will they be worth 270€ this time around? Let's wait and see  Right now,.I'm enjoying them quite a bit again.


----------



## Ceeluh7

sebek said:


> In your opinion, do you get a better SQ with a more or less entry level wired iem like Moondrop Aria / Starfield or a Sony Wf-1000XM3 / XM4 and the various Galaxy Buds?


Without question... The Aria or Starfield or an iem like them most certainly will outperform any tws very easily when wired to a dac dongle or a Dac/amp or a DAP. There is alot of Info in this group of using iems with adapters which also farely easily outperform any tws in sound quality. Of course this doesn't take into account convenience and portability and the other features which make tws so nice to own. It's all what you are looking for. If it's simply sound quality.... Dude... Use a cable. If you want wireless with the best sound quality possible then use an iem with a  cable attached to the  Qudelix 5k or the IFi Go Blu. If you don't want cables at all then use an iem with an adapter for the best SQ and if you simply want convenience, best portability and many features than we are talking actual tws and that is a whole other discussion about which one of those is best for SQ.


----------



## Luchyres

Caipirina said:


> Oh, so you ordered them directly! Glad you like'em. Chance has it that I took just now a break from re-loving my APP and put in the ATCK .. and I am warming up to them again .. I mean, that battery life is fantastic ... and I happen across this atmospheric ambience track on YT  ... check it out with them for some awesome sub bass rumble ....
> 
> (actually, I just did an A/B with the APP and their new e-pro tips, there is a sub bass rumble at exactly 3:36, which the AT play wonderfully and the APP do not pick up at all, at least with my old trash ears ... )
> 
> ...



Today I'm feeling bassier than usual, so I put on a custom EQ and I'm happy to say the AT-CKS50TW can handle EQ adjustment quite well, even at the max setting. 

I'm very curious to hear your thoughts comparing to the AZ60! I think a lot of people have stated they have pretty solid bass, but I suspect many on this thread appreciate a more neutral/treble forward tonality and so I'm anticipating they are bassier than some of the more neutral/clinical TWS. 


Caipirina said:


> Nope, not the same / counter part .. seems that currently they are Japan only, hence @Luchyres wrote a few posts back he got his set from Japan, while he appears to be in Puerto Rico ... at least Amazon ships internationally in most cases


Unfortunately due to some old maritime laws and aviation rules around batteries it is exceedingly difficult to get any thing with a battery shipped to PR. I had to ship them to Massachusetts and pick them up when I visited. However, you should be fine getting them shipped most places other than PR!


----------



## erockg

Phaethon said:


> The Monarch MK II is at headphones.com
> https://www.headphones.com/collections/thieaudio/products/thieaudio-monarch
> I have one in my cart and a sinking feeling in my gut…


No comment.  Ugh.


----------



## erockg

Tenlow said:


> It's been a couple of months since I purchased (and sent back) my B&O EQs.
> 
> Yesterday, I accidentally saw an online offer for an "almost new" pair of EQs for 270€ - exactly one month old and pretty much unused - and pulled the trigger again 😂
> 
> ...


Don't tempt me!  I did the same and truly love and miss them.  Such a sexy pair of TWS buds.  Maybe I'll revisit if an amazing deal shows up here in the US.


----------



## erockg

Ceeluh7 said:


> Have any of you gentle-folk ever tried these Yamahas out? They are 73% off on Amazon US for only $34. Just scrolling and seeing what's out there and came across these. I've never listened to any Yamaha tws so.... Just curious. Yamaha TW3A.


Sadly, yes, but the version above the 3.  When the TW-E7A came out, Amazon accidentally sent me a case of them.  No lie.  I had something like 10 pairs here.  Sent 9 back, then after trying so hard to like the buds, sent number 10 back.  Fit, function, app all needed work in my world.  Been a while so I can't say what they sounded like.  That said, probably reason they're blowing them out.


----------



## erockg

ScrofulousBinturong said:


> Are there any TWS IEMs where the charging case is deep/wide enough for large tips? I mean normal large, not grotesque. I've tried a few and the tips never fit into the case


I have the Fiio, KZ and Shure adapters.  The Fiio and KZ cases fit all my IEMs, even the largest in the Thieaudio Clairvoyance.  The Shure TW2 case will fit some of my IEMs but the largest ones can be snug.  Right now, I have the smaller Moondrop Kato on my TW2 and they fit with plenty of room to spare.  I use all large tips.


----------



## Ceeluh7

erockg said:


> Sadly, yes, but the version above the 3.  When the TW-E7A came out, Amazon accidentally sent me a case of them.  No lie.  I had something like 10 pairs here.  Sent 9 back, then after trying so hard to like the buds, sent number 10 back.  Fit, function, app all needed work in my world.  Been a while so I can't say what they sounded like.  That said, probably reason they're blowing them out.


Thanks man... Lol...i can see why they are discounted so much... Appreciate it


----------



## erockg (Feb 3, 2022)

erockg said:


> Regarding the Urbanista Lisbon after a little listening...  They have _zero_ passive isolation and _no ANC_.  These cost $39 on Amazon.  They are TINY.  They feel like you're wearing nothing in your ears.  Sound is okay.  Depends on what you're listening to, but better than I expected.  I think they're great if you need something extremely low profile and want to be able to hear everything around you.  Great for books, a ball game on the radio, music while folks are around you in an office or maybe even at home.  You can lower the volume and still hear conversations.  They remind me of the first gen AirPods without a stalk.  Similar to the Earin A-3 but with wingtips for a much better fit.  Zero bugs and better than the Earin at 1/5 the price IMO.   They have full controls, volume, play/pause, skip tracks, Siri or whatever assistant you have.  I haven't used them on a call yet, or tried them laying down in bed.  I'm guessing they won't stay secure, but I may give it a shot.  I usually like pure silence in bed.  Oh and supposedly they have a 9 hour battery life in the buds themselves.  Anyway, initial thoughts.


So yesterday I did the old hang out with the wife while she shops on a day off.  I put these things in my ears and I have to say, the battery life is incredible.  Also, I was able to keep my music on low and still hear everything (I wanted to) and have conversations.  For the price and the size, I can say these are a recommend.  I literally had them in for at least 6 or more hours.  They weren't always playing music, but by the time I took them out they were only at 70% battery life.  They're supposed to get 9 hours playtime in the buds with an additional 18 in the case.  That's just insane.  So far, they have no bugs that I can complain about for a pair that cost me $40 off Amazon.


----------



## jant71

Ceeluh7 said:


> Have any of you gentle-folk ever tried these Yamahas out? They are 73% off on Amazon US for only $34. Just scrolling and seeing what's out there and came across these. I've never listened to any Yamaha tws so.... Just curious. Yamaha TW3A.


You can translate the JP reviews. That is a good deal. Those would be the ones to get. Buuuut, they are old and no ambient only solid sound with aptX and okay battery life. Do you need them? No. Also more budget stuff you could try at that price that is better. The big discount doesn't mean much other than they are old and being cleared out.


----------



## Ceeluh7

jant71 said:


> You can translate the JP reviews. That is a good deal. Those would be the ones to get. Buuuut, they are old and no ambient only solid sound with aptX and okay battery life. Do you need them? No. Also more budget stuff you could try at that price that is better. The big discount doesn't mean much other than they are old and being cleared out.


Thanks. Glad I asked.


----------



## darveniza

Ooppps I did it again 😉

The special Asia only B&O EQ


----------



## Tenlow

darveniza said:


> Ooppps I did it again 😉
> 
> The special Asia only B&O EQ


Are they purple?

How do you like the sound? Glad I found someone with new EQs so quick after I (re-) bought mine yesterday


----------



## erockg

darveniza said:


> Ooppps I did it again 😉
> 
> The special Asia only B&O EQ


Oh, Britney.


----------



## BooleanBones

darveniza said:


> Ooppps I did it again 😉
> 
> The special Asia only B&O EQ


Uh oh, must not look at this picture anymore


----------



## darveniza

BooleanBones said:


> Uh oh, must not look at this picture anymore


Charging


----------



## jant71 (Feb 3, 2022)

It is a nice blue. 

A few more days...


Is there gonna be a Sony Signature Series true wireless??


----------



## darveniza

Tenlow said:


> Are they purple?
> 
> How do you like the sound? Glad I found someone with new EQs so quick after I (re-) bought mine yesterday


Just received them from Japan. Assuming their tuning is the same. Like the B&O sound signature , the color is like Blue buts like a BMW M series type of color, if that makes any sense whatsoever


----------



## BooleanBones

darveniza said:


> Just received them from Japan. Assuming their tuning is the same. Like the B&O sound signature , the color is like Blue buts like a BMW M series type of color, if that makes any sense whatsoever





darveniza said:


> Just received them from Japan. Assuming their tuning is the same. Like the B&O sound signature , the color is like Blue buts like a BMW M series type of color, if that makes any sense whatsoever


I really like their "Indigo" colored stuff. Appears they have it throughout a number of their products over there.


----------



## Ceeluh7

darveniza said:


> Ooppps I did it again 😉
> 
> The special Asia only B&O EQ


Wow nice! Wonder if there is any difference in tuning... I really dig that color... Tough


----------



## Tenlow

darveniza said:


> Just received them from Japan. Assuming their tuning is the same. Like the B&O sound signature , the color is like Blue buts like a BMW M series type of color, if that makes any sense whatsoever


Well, they do look rather gorgeous 👍


----------



## Caipirina

darveniza said:


> Ooppps I did it again 😉
> 
> The special Asia only B&O EQ


Great! Now all you BO EQ people make me audition those too today ... 
I might end up spending too much money today 

Already said 'eff it' and pre-ordered those new 1more pistonbuds ... I can possibly still cancel that .. but why


----------



## Caipirina

jant71 said:


> It is a nice blue.
> 
> A few more days...
> 
> ...



I think it is rather a new walkman / DAP


----------



## erockg

Got the LG Tone FP8 today - the version with wireless charging.  So far, they're very nice.  Much smaller than I expected. Bass response is really nice, smooth.  ANC is better than the Jabra Elite 7 I think.  I'll have to do a back and forth here at home.  The Tone fit like AirPods but the stalk is smaller.


----------



## Caipirina

erockg said:


> Got the LG Tone FP8 today - the version with wireless charging.  So far, they're very nice.  Much smaller than I expected. Bass response is really nice, smooth.  ANC is better than the Jabra Elite 7 I think.  I'll have to do a back and forth here at home.  The Tone fit like AirPods but the stalk is smaller.


Stalk instead of Stem, I like it


----------



## erockg

Caipirina said:


> Stalk instead of Stem, I like it


Stalk, stem, tomato tomaaaahto.  It's all ugly  but not so much in LGs case.


----------



## chinmie

erockg said:


> So yesterday I did the old hang out with the wife while she shops on a day off.  I put these things in my ears and I have to say, the battery life is incredible.  Also, I was able to keep my music on low and still hear everything (I wanted to) and have conversations.  For the price and the size, I can say these are a recommend.  I literally had them in for at least 6 or more hours.  They weren't always playing music, but by the time I took them out they were only at 70% battery life.  They're supposed to get 9 hours playtime in the buds with an additional 18 in the case.  That's just insane.  So far, they have no bugs that I can complain about for a pair that cost me $40 off Amazon.



now this got my attention..I've always have a soft spot for open earbuds type like this. how are the controls? I'm reading soundguys's review, and from what i gather it doesn't have skip tracks function?


----------



## erockg

chinmie said:


> now this got my attention..I've always have a soft spot for open earbuds type like this. how are the controls? I'm reading soundguys's review, and from what i gather it doesn't have skip tracks function?


Here's what the manual says:


----------



## jant71 (Feb 3, 2022)

Caipirina said:


> I think it is rather a new walkman / DAP


Yep we have seen it but a video many speculate that the announcement/video will mean more products than just the Walkman. Of course the question still is there if they will be adding one even if that won't be announced right now which I kinda doubt but still wanted to ask cause the 1000XM4 is nice but not signature series material.



They player has BT 5.2. Speculation it is Qualcomm based for LE audio and LC3. Perhaps we get something new to go with it.



erockg said:


> Here's what the manual says:


Yep good old rewind. To me the one thing they can leave out.  I don't want to really hear that song so I fast forward. Podcast is not that interesting, FF. Rewind? Hardly use it. Wish they could get folder skip into TWS. Very comfortable with that from my Minidisc days through Sony Walkmans, Iriver, and even RCA Lyra MP3 players back in the day. Be cool to do it over wireless.


----------



## Caipirina

jant71 said:


> Yep we have seen it but a video many speculate that the announcement/video will mean more products than just the Walkman. Of course the question still is there if they will be adding one even if that won't be announced right now which I kinda doubt but still wanted to ask cause the 1000XM4 is nice but not signature series material.
> 
> They player has BT 5.2. Speculation it is Qualcomm based for LE audio and LC3. Perhaps we get something new to go with it.
> 
> ...


Blocky video! How deliciously mysterious!


----------



## bladefd

Caipirina said:


> Blocky video! How deliciously mysterious!


It's a way to make it impossible to figure out who might have leaked the images since it's probably taken+posted without permission. The lines on the palm or any distinguishing spot on the desk are pixeled out. Smart idea tbh


----------



## _mouse_

Posted already on europe deals thread but I think may useful here too
Sony WF-1000XM4
https://www.amazon.it/dp/B095DNPH4R/ref=cm_sw_r_apan_glt_i_DXTE7E86ADHXW3H8K3QA?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1
€ 169,99 best price ever

I hope they will work on LDAC mode on my V40 the az60 don't


----------



## Caipirina

_mouse_ said:


> Posted already on europe deals thread but I think may useful here too
> Sony WF-1000XM4
> https://www.amazon.it/dp/B095DNPH4R/ref=cm_sw_r_apan_glt_i_DXTE7E86ADHXW3H8K3QA?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1
> € 169,99 best price ever
> ...


I was also just checking amazon.de and found that the Soundcore Liberty Pro 3 are not only 154€, but come with a 40€ off coupon! That's kicks Japan's 2000Y off 19800Y coupon's rear end!


----------



## Caipirina (Feb 4, 2022)

This might be a silly question, but is it possible that the Liberty Pro 3 actually sound better than the AZ60? I was doing a lot of auditioning today and this was also the 2nd time I tried the 3Pro again, this time I was getting a much better fit .. and somehow I liked them better than the Technics, but it was not indepth / analytical, I kinda focused on sub bass response ...  I also recall some online reviewer placing them above the technics ... who might that have been (El Jeffe I just recalled)?  Anyways, I ended up not buying anything today


----------



## jant71 (Feb 4, 2022)

Caipirina said:


> This might be a silly question, but is it possible that the Liberty Pro 3 actually sound better than the AZ60? I was doing a lot of auditioning today and this was also the 2nd time I tried the 3Pro again, this time I was getting a much better fit .. and somehow I liked them better than the Technics, but it was not indepth / analytical, I kinda focused on sub bass response ...  I also recall some online reviewer placing them above the technics ... who might that have been (El Jeffe I just recalled)?  Anyways, I ended up not buying anything today


Yep, synergy can still apply. I don't think the majority will agree but there will be some out there. Esp. depending on codec and implementation. EQ as well depending on how well they respond to it. As we know a few factors and how they mix together and what you get is not gonna be the same for everyone.  

On my, ANC on par with the Sony XM4 :O

I thought with the battery life hit it was gonna try to be good but maybe they succeeded. Seem to sound very good too and nice on the tips...






$10 off on Amazon to entice. I can hear erockg saying dammit I just bought those LG's.


----------



## sgtbilko

erockg said:


> Stalk, stem, tomato tomaaaahto.  It's all ugly  but not so much in LGs case.


Here in the UK I read this as 'tomaaaahto tomaaaahto'


----------



## jant71 (Feb 4, 2022)

sgtbilko said:


> Here in the UK I read this as 'tomaaaahto tomaaaahto'


Yeah.  He should have said you say tomaaaahto I say tom8to! Heck we are global here and erockg buys stuff from Japan so maybe... I say tom8to, you say tamaaaahto, and you say トマト.


----------



## Caipirina

Gosh, tomatos are surprisingly expensive here in Japan 
Anyways, I have one more question regarding the Liberty 3 Pro. The Amazon description says ‘external sound input’ and I am confused what that means. First I was hoping it means the base can be used as a BT sender (connect to your old non-BT dap), like the Bowers Wilkins … but maybe they just mean ambient mode?


----------



## jant71 (Feb 4, 2022)

Caipirina said:


> Gosh, tomatos are surprisingly expensive here in Japan
> Anyways, I have one more question regarding the Liberty 3 Pro. The Amazon description says ‘external sound input’ and I am confused what that means. First I was hoping it means the base can be used as a BT sender (connect to your old non-BT dap), like the Bowers Wilkins … but maybe they just mean ambient mode?


External sound input should = ambient/transparency mode. Think there is another model that does the same as the B&W though. Need to look back. I know Gamesky reveiwed it. Need to check that again since I can't remember.

Edit: Okay, the LG Tone Free FP9. Has external plug in and sends out to the earphones.


----------



## erockg

jant71 said:


> Yeah.  He should have said you say tomaaaahto I say tom8to! Heck we are global here and erockg buys stuff from Japan so maybe... I say tom8to, you say tamaaaahto, and you say トマト.


You can all just eat a stalk!  Bwahahahaha!


----------



## erockg

jant71 said:


> External sound input should = ambient/transparency mode. Think there is another model that does the same as the B&W though. Need to look back. I know Gamesky reveiwed it. Need to check that again since I can't remember.
> 
> Edit: Okay, the LG Tone Free FP9. Has external plug in and sends out to the earphones.



Yep, I didn't get that one, I'd never use that external plug feature.  The FP9 doesn't have wireless charging.  FP9 does and supposedly has all the same other features.  No idea why they omitted wireless charging from the 9.


----------



## BlueSkyHi

I took a slight different approach to implementing "fully wireless" IEMs.  I took my Ultimate Ears 18 IEMS, had a custom short balanced cable made for them with a 4.4mm TRRRS balanced connector and plug it into the iFi Go Blu portable DAC/amp.   Great sound if not completely wireless.


----------



## jant71 (Feb 4, 2022)

erockg said:


> Yep, I didn't get that one, I'd never use that external plug feature.  The FP9 doesn't have wireless charging.  FP8 does and supposedly has all the same other features.  No idea why they omitted wireless charging from the 9.


Fixed that for ya.  Most likely the internals for for UV, transmitting, and wireless charging couldn't fit in the same case and they didn't want to make a second case. Kinda odd to make identical models that differ on one feature though. Maybe better if they had given wireless charging on both but made the choice between the UV cleaning and case transmitting.


----------



## Ceeluh7

BlueSkyHi said:


> I took a slight different approach to implementing "fully wireless" IEMs.  I took my Ultimate Ears 18 IEMS, had a custom short balanced cable made for them with a 4.4mm TRRRS balanced connector and plug it into the iFi Go Blu portable DAC/amp.   Great sound if not completely wireless.


Dude... I am an ifi go blu lover myself. I do like the idea of a shorter cable. Hiby makes a short cable but it's $100. Anyways.... Nice man... I have somebody to relate to with the IFi... I honestly can't really tell the difference between my iems to a nice dongle dac or dap and the IFi. There may be tonal differences but the soundstage separation and all the intangibles of a wired connection are there. I also enjoy the Qudelix 5k alot as well...


----------



## sgtbilko

erockg said:


> You can all just eat a stalk!  Bwahahahaha!


So, you're stalking me now...


----------



## ldo77

I really like my Soudpeats H1, but they seem do not support running.
They stop working after half an jour (right side) when I run.
So is there an other TWS, in the same price and sound, with better ipx ?


----------



## xSDMx

ldo77 said:


> I really like my Soudpeats H1, but they seem do not support running.
> They stop working after half an jour (right side) when I run.
> So is there an other TWS, in the same price and sound, with better ipx ?


Could just be your set FWIW. Before I got my TW2s, I regularly used my Soundpeats H1 paired to my Galaxy Watch for 5K, 10K, and 15K runs without any issues. I think after a 1.5hr run, the battery had even only drained a few %.


----------



## Sundawn

Hello Guys, can anyone help me and suggest most accurate - IEF Neutral Sounding TWS, or A TWS Similar to Blessing 2 in Sound Quality. And from most i had read or watched on the internet Moondrop sparks aren't similar sounding to B2. 
I am currently confused b/w 1) Lypertek Pureplay Z3 2.0, 2) Moondrop Sparks 3) Galaxy Buds Pro 4) Nuratrue/Cambridge Audio Melomania 1+
And my requirements in descending order are:
1) Most Important thing is its Sound Quality to me: as i can not tolerate over emphasized thumping bass & nor harsh treble. I need good seperation. only tight & clear bass nothing emphasized, unrecessed vocals, no sibilance & no harsh trebles.
2) Battery life- I need to use tws for atleast 05:30 hrs on a go without case.
3) call Quality- I need decent call quality, that another person on line can listen clearly even in outdoors.
4) controls- Its controls should atleast work correctly. and my first preference is touch controls, then light click physical buttons & then last hard click Physical buttons.
5) Long term sturdiness- they should not break apart after one year.

I know i am too demanding for a TWS but If can anybody here tried these TWS, please help me out here.


----------



## The Jojo

Tenlow said:


> It's been a couple of months since I purchased (and sent back) my B&O EQs.
> 
> Yesterday, I accidentally saw an online offer for an "almost new" pair of EQs for 270€ - exactly one month old and pretty much unused - and pulled the trigger again 😂
> 
> ...



It's funny, isn't it? I usually don't return headphones after a purchase - even though I might not like them - and sell them instead. And sometimes, more often than I'd wish, I immediately start missing them. So much that I re-buy them after a couple of weeks. 

Happened with my SE-846. I thought "You don't need wired headphones anymore". Sold them. Bought a used pair one month later.


----------



## ldo77

xSDMx said:


> Could just be your set FWIW. Before I got my TW2s, I regularly used my Soundpeats H1 paired to my Galaxy Watch for 5K, 10K, and 15K runs without any issues. I think after a 1.5hr run, the battery had even only drained a few %.


Thanks. 
Firmware updated 
Next test, a running this week.


----------



## Caipirina

ldo77 said:


> I really like my Soudpeats H1, but they seem do not support running.
> They stop working after half an jour (right side) when I run.
> So is there an other TWS, in the same price and sound, with better ipx ?


I am really digging the Fiil T2 pro (same / similar to Earfun Free Pro 2 something) for running these days. Not sure about their IPX though


----------



## darveniza

jant71 said:


> Yep, synergy can still apply. I don't think the majority will agree but there will be some out there. Esp. depending on codec and implementation. EQ as well depending on how well they respond to it. As we know a few factors and how they mix together and what you get is not gonna be the same for everyone.
> 
> On my, ANC on par with the Sony XM4 :O
> 
> ...



The LG are much better than these from a call Audio Mic perspective , he will be okay with his purchase


----------



## Not so fat head

On Bose website use the code SAVE50
And save 50 bucks on refurbished headphones; might work on new ones too..

I picked up the sound sports TWS for $105


----------



## Not so fat head

The Jojo said:


> It's funny, isn't it? I usually don't return headphones after a purchase - even though I might not like them - and sell them instead. And sometimes, more often than I'd wish, I immediately start missing them. So much that I re-buy them after a couple of weeks.
> 
> Happened with my SE-846. I thought "You don't need wired headphones anymore". Sold them. Bought a used pair one month later.


Ha!!!  Been there too..  A crazy hobby, now I know it’s not just me…


----------



## howdy

Been off Head-fi for a year, amazing how many pages happens in that time. I have not bought a TWS since the intro of the the XM4 which I still have and enjoy. 

One question I have is, has anyone heard of a Sennheiser Momentum III in the works? i still have the 1st iteration and still love the sound, I did pick up the CX as well but would like to get the MTW III!


----------



## nekonhime

This bad boy just come home today. I can't to test it.


----------



## assassin10000

Sundawn said:


> Hello Guys, can anyone help me and suggest most accurate - IEF Neutral Sounding TWS, or A TWS Similar to Blessing 2 in Sound Quality. And from most i had read or watched on the internet Moondrop sparks aren't similar sounding to B2.
> I am currently confused b/w 1) Lypertek Pureplay Z3 2.0, 2) Moondrop Sparks 3) Galaxy Buds Pro 4) Nuratrue/Cambridge Audio Melomania 1+
> And my requirements in descending order are:
> 1) Most Important thing is its Sound Quality to me: as i can not tolerate over emphasized thumping bass & nor harsh treble. I need good seperation. only tight & clear bass nothing emphasized, unrecessed vocals, no sibilance & no harsh trebles.
> ...



If you don't mind TWS adapters you could try the Fiio utws5 or the Shure adapters with an MMCX to 2 pin adapter.


----------



## guitarizt

Sundawn said:


> Hello Guys, can anyone help me and suggest most accurate - IEF Neutral Sounding TWS, or A TWS Similar to Blessing 2 in Sound Quality. And from most i had read or watched on the internet Moondrop sparks aren't similar sounding to B2.
> I am currently confused b/w 1) Lypertek Pureplay Z3 2.0, 2) Moondrop Sparks 3) Galaxy Buds Pro 4) Nuratrue/Cambridge Audio Melomania 1+
> And my requirements in descending order are:
> 1) Most Important thing is its Sound Quality to me: as i can not tolerate over emphasized thumping bass & nor harsh treble. I need good seperation. only tight & clear bass nothing emphasized, unrecessed vocals, no sibilance & no harsh trebles.
> ...


I only have the bud pros. The batt life is right at 5:30 with transparency on. I think I remember it's the same with anc on. I really doubt it's going to be b2 in sound quality. I know crin has his ratings, and some other people have rated it highly as well, but I enjoy the sound sig of some of the sub $100s better like aria and tanya. Last thing I'll say is def avoid the rest of the galaxy line. I have the buds+ and live and the pros are way better.


----------



## VICosPhi (Feb 5, 2022)

Caipirina said:


> This might be a silly question, but is it possible that the Liberty Pro 3 actually sound better than the AZ60? I was doing a lot of auditioning today and this was also the 2nd time I tried the 3Pro again, this time I was getting a much better fit .. and somehow I liked them better than the Technics, but it was not indepth / analytical, I kinda focused on sub bass response ...  I also recall some online reviewer placing them above the technics ... who might that have been (El Jeffe I just recalled)?  Anyways, I ended up not buying anything today


I think Liberty 3 Pro definitely have bigger soundstage than AZ60 and the sub bass is much higher quality/pronounced. The eq on L3P is also more responsive than AZ60 so the sound signature a bit more customizable. The AZ60 do have better mid-bass though.


----------



## nekonhime

After testing the EQ for a little bit, I have to say hot damn, this lit as the sound and detail can rival my bgvp dm6 I used to have in the past. The sound is comfortable and details that my xm4, mw08, T5 II anc couldn't compared. But it need to crank up the volume like 70% to be listenable. But for 400$, nah


----------



## ScrofulousBinturong

Ceeluh7 said:


> I wouldn't know man. I don't have the Shure TW2. Id like to though. If the case is anything like Fiio's than yes alot will fit. However I think he is talking about using 3rd party tips on regular tws which I agree with him. So many tws sets have only enough room for the eartips that come with the Earbud and if you try for a different ear tip it likely will not fit in the case. Example... Neobuds Pro... Very nice set of tws however the stinking eartips are absolutely disgraceful and do nothing to help the SQ. I tried so many tips but almost none of them would fit in the stupid case. I think that is what he is referring to but I may be wrong about that.


Yeah I'm referring to tws earbud charge cases being too shallow for any tips larger than the stock M most buds come with.

Alas.


----------



## Tommy C (Feb 5, 2022)

Sundawn said:


> Hello Guys, can anyone help me and suggest most accurate - IEF Neutral Sounding TWS, or A TWS Similar to Blessing 2 in Sound Quality. And from most i had read or watched on the internet Moondrop sparks aren't similar sounding to B2.
> I am currently confused b/w 1) Lypertek Pureplay Z3 2.0, 2) Moondrop Sparks 3) Galaxy Buds Pro 4) Nuratrue/Cambridge Audio Melomania 1+
> And my requirements in descending order are:
> 1) Most Important thing is its Sound Quality to me: as i can not tolerate over emphasized thumping bass & nor harsh treble. I need good seperation. only tight & clear bass nothing emphasized, unrecessed vocals, no sibilance & no harsh trebles.
> ...


My votes go to the Sennheiser CX 400BT for refined sound quality, great soundstage but mild bass and non-fatigue treble. They have pleasant, mature sound and do many things right. They don’t really do rap, hip-hop well though.
Another option is the Shure TW2. Mine came with the SE215 Special Edition and despite being labeled as extra bassy they are definitely not. They are great for everything and despite being the entry level SE215 by Shure they still beat other TWS in the same price bracket as they sound like their wired version.


----------



## ldo77

ldo77 said:


> Thanks.
> Firmware updated
> Next test, a running this week.


Tested today and everythings is ok.
No problem with Soundpeats H1, when running.
@xSDMx  thanks


----------



## Tenlow

Just out of curiosity, is the case on the EQ supposed to be perfectly flush? Just found out by accident that when the case is closed that the bottom part of the case is ever so slightly protruding. I can barely see it honestly but it can easily be felt with a finger going down from the upper part to the bottom part where the lid opens. Nothing to worry about of course, I was just curious


----------



## jant71

darveniza said:


> The LG are much better than these from a call Audio Mic perspective , he will be okay with his purchase


Yep as the impressions come in the ANC and Mic stuff are not that good. One was nice that showed they beat the Liberty 3 pro but not the Edifier. May just turn out different than I thought. Maybe they could bring some up better ANC and good sound. Seems to be reversed with fine ANC and mics but not near the top. The sound though is better it seems. That is the impression I have gotten from the reviews so far that the sound is the best part of them. Also that the touch control is a bit too sensitive and you might be better served switching to the no single press mode on the app. It seems that the seal helps the ANC so the one set of tips will give more ANC so we will get some better than other reports of the ANC level.


----------



## erockg

jant71 said:


> Yep as the impressions come in the ANC and Mic stuff are not that good. One was nice that showed they beat the Liberty 3 pro but not the Edifier. May just turn out different than I thought. Maybe they could bring some up better ANC and good sound. Seems to be reversed with fine ANC and mics but not near the top. The sound though is better it seems. That is the impression I have gotten from the reviews so far that the sound is the best part of them. Also that the touch control is a bit too sensitive and you might be better served switching to the no single press mode on the app. It seems that the seal helps the ANC so the one set of tips will give more ANC so we will get some better than other reports of the ANC level.


I've lost track, but regarding the LG Tone FP8, calls work great and I took many using them yesterday.  For the $126.99 I paid for them, they're quite good.  I'm particularly impressed with the sound, size and weight.  ANC is slightly better than the Jabra Elite 7 Pro, but I've only tried them indoors, not much testing.  Touch controls are great.  No issues there.  Talk to me in a few weeks, things change, but right now, I'm enjoying them.  I was going to pick up the AirPods Pro again specifically for calls, but I just despise white earbuds.  It's the evil in me.  I would pay for Colorware APP, but if the new ones come out in a few month, that'll be a tough pill to swallow considering how much Colorware charges.


----------



## jant71 (Feb 5, 2022)

erockg said:


> I've lost track, but regarding the LG Tone FP8, calls work great and I took many using them yesterday.  For the $126.99 I paid for them, they're quite good.  I'm particularly impressed with the sound, size and weight.  ANC is slightly better than the Jabra Elite 7 Pro, but I've only tried them indoors, not much testing.  Touch controls are great.  No issues there.  Talk to me in a few weeks, things change, but right now, I'm enjoying them.  I was going to pick up the AirPods Pro again specifically for calls, but I just despise white earbuds.  It's the evil in me.  I would pay for Colorware APP, but if the new ones come out in a few month, that'll be a tough pill to swallow considering how much Colorware charges.


Stop leave poor Jabra alone.  I did that too most of the time saying or parroting the cheaper Jabra old models or 4 Active and Elite 3 are better buys thing. Not getting real value for $179 in this market.

White is not cool but you could have got the green Lisbon or the coral color and not the boring black. 




Not sure that they are any great shakes just yet but kind of a BOSE open air fighter here...
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B09PH654C...jbGlja1JlZGlyZWN0JmRvTm90TG9nQ2xpY2s9dHJ1ZQ==



Thumb buttons and control set up is good. Case both charges the buds and has wireless charging. Saying they use strong amps to not have puny bass sound. 

Interesting if they turn out to be good.


----------



## erockg

jant71 said:


> Stop leave poor Jabra alone.  I did that too most of the time saying or parroting the cheaper Jabra old models or 4 Active and Elite 3 are better buys thing. Not getting real value for $179 in this market.
> 
> White is not cool but you could have got the green Lisbon or the coral color and not the boring black.
> 
> ...


I would truly like to see a photo of all these budget buds you've been buying.  

Eh, I can't do color.  It's not my thing.  Coral?!  Green?!  I'd rather not draw attention to my ears with some beacon!  I can't, I just can't...


----------



## jant71 (Feb 5, 2022)

erockg said:


> I would truly like to see a photo of all these budget buds you've been buying.
> 
> Eh, I can't do color.  It's not my thing.  Coral?!  Green?!  I'd rather not draw attention to my ears with some beacon!  I can't, I just can't...


The Lisbon are small. Besides you stuck the BOSE in your ears so I don't buy the not drawing attention thing.  Probably looked like with a stiff wind you might just take flight with those in your ears. The Shure you can see from space! Not draw attention huh!


----------



## erockg

jant71 said:


> The Lisbon are small. Besides you stuck the BOSE in your ears so I don't buy the not drawing attention thing.  Probably looked like with a stiff wind you might just take flight with those in your ears. The Shure you can see from space! Not draw attention huh!


Yeah, all Bose and the Shure have long since fired up their engines and gone to space for sure.  I'll be taking the Lisbon to my kids T-ball practice.  So low-profile, no one will ever know


----------



## Sundawn

guitarizt said:


> I only have the bud pros. The batt life is right at 5:30 with transparency on. I think I remember it's the same with anc on. I really doubt it's going to be b2 in sound quality. I know crin has his ratings, and some other people have rated it highly as well, but I enjoy the sound sig of some of the sub $100s better like aria and tanya. Last thing I'll say is def avoid the rest of the galaxy line. I have the buds+ and live and the pros are way better.


HI @guitarizt , Hope u r doing well & thanks for the reply. 
Are you using your Buds Pro with a Samsung Device or a non- samsung android device? as with samsung u get their proprietery ssc codec, which i will not get with my non-samsung smartphone.
if yes, could u also try them with a non-samsung android device and then tell me if there is any change in their Sonic & call quality performance?
and does buds pro's bass is bloated and thumpy? how do u compare them wrt to ER4XR or B2 if u had tried them or any other near neutral iem in their Sound Signature?
is every thing bloated or is there a good seperation b/w instruments. Are vocals flat, forward or recessed?and hows is the treble?


----------



## dweaver

OK, I was and likely still am going to buy the EAH-A800 because of my Technics AZ60/70 enjoyment. But I am tempted to buy a really good wired IEM and convert it using either a TWS adapter or possibly a nechband BT adapter.

I used to own the XBA-Z5 which was as close to nervana I have ever come for music. In balanced mode they just were amazing for 3D sound and bass and unlike modern Sony stuff had great treble detail. The only issue they had was they made female vocals a bit husky. But I lived with that because of the over all musical presentation.

If I bought Fiio FH3 or FH5 would they come close to the XBA-Z5? I can get the FH5 for only $40 more than the FH3 which makes me tempted to go with them.

My budget is $200 - $250 max for the IEM. If neither of the Fiio work what would be a good IEM option?

As to the adapter is there any LDAC TWS option available? If not would I be better off going with the Fiio LC-BT2 to get LDAC ability? I am using a Samsung phone and will not mess with the phones OS to enable the higher APTx codecs so am limited to LDAC, AAC, or just plain APTx and I find plain APTx a bit harsh or glaring sounding.


----------



## putente

Hi guys, a little help here...

I own a pair of Sony XM3 IEM (well worn and starting to give me some problems) and looking for a replacement soon. The natural choice should be the XM4 I guess (at home I also already use the XM4 full size headphone), but I'm also considering the Sennheiser Momentum TW2 (at home I also have the HD650 and IE800). They both cost the same for me, and as I can't test sample any of them, I'm wondering which one should I choose.

I commute 3 hours a day by public transport, so good ANC is a must (the XM3 are good here) but I'd like a slimmer profile/smaller IEM body and also to have a warmer sound signature. Not sure if both the XM4 or TW2 can give me those 3 things, and in case they do, which one is the best choice...

Thanks for your help!


----------



## dweaver

putente said:


> Hi guys, a little help here...
> 
> I own a pair of Sony XM3 IEM (well worn and starting to give me some problems) and looking for a replacement soon. The natural choice should be the XM4 I guess (at home I also already use the XM4 full size headphone), but I'm also considering the Sennheiser Momentum TW2 (at home I also have the HD650 and IE800). They both cost the same for me, and as I can't test sample any of them, I'm wondering which one should I choose.
> 
> ...


The XM4 is supposed to be warmer than the XM3 and will have the ANC you want plus is a smaller profile so will give you want your looking for. The TW2 will not have as good ANC but will be a warm more balanced sound.

Price wise the TW2 seems to be in sale for a much lower price quite often, usually the sign of a model about to be replaced with a new model. The XM4 on the other hand is at best only $50 off its MSRP.

I personally am enjoying the Technics AZ60 and think it has ANC almost as good as Sony. But it might not have the signature you wanting. It's bass is not as hard hitting as the Sony and is a bit looser sounding. I find it warm but it is definitely no where near as warm as Sony.


----------



## jkjk123

XM4 has one of the best ANC (maybe the best for TWS due to its design having good passive isolation as well) and is excellent for anyone who Iikes a slightly warm signature (plus EQ in the app very easy to use and effective as well).

If you take a look at soundguys and rtings, the frequency response for XM4s is more linear, and ANC is significantly more effective. However, XM4s are not small/slim, so if that is a must, they may not work. There are refurbished ones with 2 year warranty available on ebay for $150 BTW.


----------



## Ceeluh7

dweaver said:


> OK, I was and likely still am going to buy the EAH-A800 because of my Technics AZ60/70 enjoyment. But I am tempted to buy a really good wired IEM and convert it using either a TWS adapter or possibly a nechband BT adapter.
> 
> I used to own the XBA-Z5 which was as close to nervana I have ever come for music. In balanced mode they just were amazing for 3D sound and bass and unlike modern Sony stuff had great treble detail. The only issue they had was they made female vocals a bit husky. But I lived with that because of the over all musical presentation.
> 
> ...


I've owned the Fiio lcbt2... It is a great neckband bt device... Really. It has about 25 mw @32 ohm. So it will properly drive sensitive iems. For example the Fiio Utws5 is about twice the driving power. However, it is very well done with good separation and a more balanced approach. I can personally rec both the Fiio FH3 and the Fh5... I have them both and they are great. Personally I like the FH3 a hair better but that is me. You may enjoy the Fh5 more. I guess I'd ask what your preferred sound signature that you like. There is an absolute slew of good choices up to $250 man. So... My next question is where are you planning to order from which will greatly affect your choices. I have tried nearly all the bt neckband devices... Shanling has a good one and ikko has an amazing neckband. The only issue with he ikko is it doesn't have ldac but instead has aptx, aptx-hd, AAC, and SBC. But... It has 3 times the output power of the other bt neckband adapters. Has a great dac/amp inside as well and there is no real difference between aptx-hd and LDAC to me...


----------



## jant71 (Feb 5, 2022)

Ceeluh7 said:


> I've owned the Fiio lcbt2... It is a great neckband bt device... Really. It has about 25 mw @32 ohm. So it will properly drive sensitive iems. For example the Fiio Utws5 is about twice the driving power. However, it is very well done with good separation and a more balanced approach. I can personally rec both the Fiio FH3 and the Fh5... I have them both and they are great. Personally I like the FH3 a hair better but that is me. You may enjoy the Fh5 more. I guess I'd ask what your preferred sound signature that you like. There is an absolute slew of good choices up to $250 man. So... My next question is where are you planning to order from which will greatly affect your choices. I have tried nearly all the bt neckband devices... Shanling has a good one and ikko has an amazing neckband. The only issue with he ikko is it doesn't have ldac but instead has aptx, aptx-hd, AAC, and SBC. But... It has 3 times the output power of the other bt neckband adapters. Has a great dac/amp inside as well and there is no real difference between aptx-hd and LDAC to me...


More power and the good amp chip trumps the LDAC for sure. I was gonna say the IKKO for sure. Be nice if they upgraded it to 5.2 and adaptive and a newer battery with a few more hours. I wonder if it is gonna be a dead end for that form factor or will we see a few with LE and aptX loseless in them.


----------



## dweaver

I loved the XBA-Z5 it had huge bass, luscious mids, and plenty of treble with the massive 3D sound stage. The WF-1000XM3 in comparison lacked the treble detail and did not have the same sense of involvement in the music. To be blunt it was bland in comparison.

If I am totally honest I have not owned any product other than my full size headphones that come close to the XBA-Z5 and I know I have missed that kind of detail and sound. I just refuse to spend another $800 on a pair of Z5 because the damn bleeping MMCX is to fragile to take that chance again.

I really like the Ikko it looks awesome. My only challenge is I will be limited to APTx and AAC thus the Fiio LC-BT2 as an alternative.

I also am thinking what ever I get I can use my old XBA-Z5 balanced cable and my Pono player for the ultimate sound experience. In which case I may not bother using these in a BT mode. Plus I have the balanced BT cable that fits my little BT device that supports LDAC (drawing blank on the product name at the moment) so I have several options for using what ever I buy.

I can get the FH5 for $240Can which is a bit over $100 off the retail. So a very good price.

I prefer to stay in Canada for buying as I find using AliExpress and options like that very painful and slow and pretty much it mpossible to deal with for warranty and such.


----------



## dweaver

OK, in thinking about what I own now, the one balanced cable I have is from an earlier Fiio IEM I own. That coupled with being a sucker for a good deal I am thinking I will just jump on the FH5. I am sure they will be head and shoulders above all the TWS I own and give me the audio detail and sound I am craving. So I am just going to buy them and take a chance they will satisfy me. 

At their sale price I can also flip them for less of a loss if they don't work out.


----------



## Ceeluh7

jant71 said:


> More power and the good amp chip trumps the LDAC for sure. I was gonna say the IKKO for sure. Be nice if they upgraded it to 5.2 and adaptive and a newer battery with a few more hours. I wonder if it is gonna be a dead end for that form factor or will we see a few with LE and aptX loseless in them.


Ya I was kind of thinking the same thing. They just did not sell. I purchased them simply for cutting grass but realized how awesome they sounded. I have my doubts that fiio shanling hiby or ikko are going any further with a neckband style but I suppose crazier things have happened. The Ikko itb05 was and still is a beast but anything outside of daps rarely have aptx-hd... At least I've never had a smartphone with the codec. The daps I use have it. I actually like the neckband for certain purposes. I used to like that I could just drape the Iems down my chest when not in use.


----------



## Ceeluh7

dweaver said:


> I loved the XBA-Z5 it had huge bass, luscious mids, and plenty of treble with the massive 3D sound stage. The WF-1000XM3 in comparison lacked the treble detail and did not have the same sense of involvement in the music. To be blunt it was bland in comparison.
> 
> If I am totally honest I have not owned any product other than my full size headphones that come close to the XBA-Z5 and I know I have missed that kind of detail and sound. I just refuse to spend another $800 on a pair of Z5 because the damn bleeping MMCX is to fragile to take that chance again.
> 
> ...


Ya... I don't like Aliexpress either. I don't know your options in Canada but I can tell you that the Fh5 is an awesome sounding set. The reviews will tell you that. Great resolution and deeper bass. It comes with Fiio's pelican case and a slew of tips along with a nice cable. I still listen a few times a week to the Fh5 and at times put it on the Utws3 or 5 because it is very sensitive and loud.


----------



## Ceeluh7

dweaver said:


> OK, in thinking about what I own now, the one balanced cable I have is from an earlier Fiio IEM I own. That coupled with being a sucker for a good deal I am thinking I will just jump on the FH5. I am sure they will be head and shoulders above all the TWS I own and give me the audio detail and sound I am craving. So I am just going to buy them and take a chance they will satisfy me.
> 
> At their sale price I can also flip them for less of a loss if they don't work out.


I think it's a great set man... Really. You can find really great cheap balanced cables as well if that's what you are after. I use balanced on pretty much everything that isn't an adapter and all my balanced cables I purchased from Amazon. Anyways, I think I'm going to spend some time with the Fh5 tonight. To be honest the Fh5 and fh3 are similar and most would prob argue that the Fh5 is the better set. I go back and forth.


----------



## erockg

Anyone else here who owns the LG Tone have issues with the left bud randomly playing static as you hit play? You can resolve it by hitting the PLAY/PAUSE function again but that’s pretty ridiculous if this keeps happening.


----------



## dweaver

Went ahead and ordered the FH5. Looking forward to seeing what they are like and hoping to be wowed

I honestly have been wanting something just not possible in TWS yet. My AZ60 will still see plenty of love due to their convenience and ANC. But having a truly premium IEM for listening at home and  being swept up in the music has been missing in my life for several years now.


----------



## Not so fat head

erockg said:


> Anyone else here who owns the LG Tone have issues with the left bud randomly playing static as you hit play? You can resolve it by hitting the PLAY/PAUSE function again but that’s pretty ridiculous if this keeps happening.


I have two Tone 6’s and have had no issues..  picked one up for $110 and the other for $69 (as a backup).  I’m a sucker for a good deal…
Both at Best Buy..


----------



## darveniza

erockg said:


> Anyone else here who owns the LG Tone have issues with the left bud randomly playing static as you hit play? You can resolve it by hitting the PLAY/PAUSE function again but that’s pretty ridiculous if this keeps happening.


I have the FP8 have noticed that issue. The most annoying thing for me it's connection with Microsoft Teams , not sure why this one seems to be finicky with it.


----------



## nekonhime

putente said:


> Hi guys, a little help here...
> 
> I own a pair of Sony XM3 IEM (well worn and starting to give me some problems) and looking for a replacement soon. The natural choice should be the XM4 I guess (at home I also already use the XM4 full size headphone), but I'm also considering the Sennheiser Momentum TW2 (at home I also have the HD650 and IE800). They both cost the same for me, and as I can't test sample any of them, I'm wondering which one should I choose.
> 
> ...


You can buy the xm4 for 200$ or you can try and find the b&o eq for 225-250 with better sound quality but worse anc


----------



## DigDub

erockg said:


> Anyone else here who owns the LG Tone have issues with the left bud randomly playing static as you hit play? You can resolve it by hitting the PLAY/PAUSE function again but that’s pretty ridiculous if this keeps happening.


I have the fp9, no issues. Love the transmitter feature. With online seminars getting more common nowadays, I can plug the case into my bluetooth-less computer for wireless audio.


----------



## erockg

darveniza said:


> I have the FP8 have noticed that issue. The most annoying thing for me it's connection with Microsoft Teams , not sure why this one seems to be finicky with it.


That's disheartening.  Just happened again right now while switching between EQ settings.  Fingers crossed but no issues with Zoom yet.


----------



## erockg

DigDub said:


> I have the fp9, no issues. Love the transmitter feature. With online seminars getting more common nowadays, I can plug the case into my bluetooth-less computer for wireless audio.


Yeah, I got the 8 for the wireless charging because I don't have a need for the transmitter.  B&W had that too.  Cool feature if you use it.  Love the size of these LG but man, if this keeps happening -- buh bye.


----------



## Caipirina

erockg said:


> I would truly like to see a photo of all these budget buds you've been buying.


I keep thinking about taking a photo of my shoe boxes full of buds  but I fear that this just visualizes how far / deep I went down that rabbit hole …


----------



## chinmie

Caipirina said:


> I keep thinking about taking a photo of my shoe boxes full of buds  but I fear that this just visualizes how far / deep I went down that rabbit hole …



It's okay....go ahead and post it...we're all in this rabbit hole together after all


----------



## BigZ12 (Feb 6, 2022)

For those who want a neckband adapter...
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005002842506128.html
Qualcomm QCC5125, LDAC, AptX HD and Adaptive and 45 hours of battery.
Seems interesting?


----------



## Caipirina

erockg said:


> I would truly like to see a photo of all these budget buds you've been buying.


Speaking of budget buds ... I think this is the first time I see an alleged ANC cheapo for under 20$. ... 




Nope, not gonna do it ... after 5 minutes of cheap unboxing fun it would end up in the shoe box of doom ...


----------



## jant71 (Feb 6, 2022)

Caipirina said:


> Speaking of budget buds ... I think this is the first time I see an alleged ANC cheapo for under 20$. ...
> 
> 
> 
> Nope, not gonna do it ... after 5 minutes of cheap unboxing fun it would end up in the shoe box of doom ...


Hey I posted about one. Though $32 right now they were on sale for $3.60 and actually get their share of use. They did "misspeak" about having transparency mode but the ANC is okay and the fit and sound are impressive. My next budget model coming tomorrow is from Japan. It was under $30 but that was cause I had 1848 Yen off in points from buying the CKS50TW. I bought the budget Aviot which has a nice choice of colors, aptX, ambient, and seems to sound good and have a balanced tuning.

Though I guess my Simgot, bluedio, some JVC's have ended up sold or in the drawer of doom. Few but some cheap surprises out there if you are up for the gamble. Kinda od like a fun challenge to scour and see if you can find a potential keeper in the jungle of <$20 offerings. Saw this one was kinda interesting for about $24...


----------



## darveniza

Interesting posting on Sony 

https://iphone-mania.jp/news-436546/ 

More pictures and details at that site


----------



## nekonhime

darveniza said:


> Interesting posting on Sony
> 
> https://iphone-mania.jp/news-436546/
> 
> More pictures and details at that site


If they fix the microphone and improve the ANC then I am in


----------



## C_Lindbergh

That's the most weird TWS I've ever seen.


----------



## Ceeluh7

jant71 said:


> Hey I posted about one. Though $32 right now they were on sale for $3.60 and actually get their share of use. They did "misspeak" about having transparency mode but the ANC is okay and the fit and sound are impressive. My next budget model coming tomorrow is from Japan. It was under $30 but that was cause I had 1848 Yen off in points from buying the CKS50TW. I bought the budget Aviot which has a nice choice of colors, aptX, ambient, and seems to sound good and have a balanced tuning.
> 
> Though I guess my Simgot, bluedio, some JVC's have ended up sold or in the drawer of doom. Few but some cheap surprises out there if you are up for the gamble. Kinda od like a fun challenge to scour and see if you can find a potential keeper in the jungle of <$20 offerings. Saw this one was kinda interesting for about $24...


Yes! This sounds like me man. I get the same feeling with cheepo pairs of.... Anything. Love finding lil gems for cheap. Lol... I'm pretty sure that stems from growing up POH... LOL. I have a couple coming next weekend... It never ends


----------



## Ceeluh7

nekonhime said:


> If they fix the microphone and improve the ANC then I am in


What the Hell is it? Hmm. They are different, that is for sure.


----------



## nekonhime

Ceeluh7 said:


> What the Hell is it? Hmm. They are different, that is for sure.


New earbud from sony, but take a look again; Nah, I won't buy it


----------



## Ceeluh7

nekonhime said:


> New earbud from sony, but take a look again; Nah, I won't buy it


Ya I got that but it's just odd, who knows maybe they will be amazing.


----------



## Ceeluh7

darveniza said:


> Interesting posting on Sony
> 
> https://iphone-mania.jp/news-436546/
> 
> More pictures and details at that site


These should have a very open and airy sound but are probably severely lacking any bass. They are really just non in-ear earbuds. They may be good for people who are sensitive to anything in their ears. Very large too. I wonder what Sony was thinking here?


----------



## jant71

Not liking the touch aspect on the Sony. If any shape would need a button that would be it. Or else it will be prone to unwanted presses unless it is a no single press function set up.

Any chance they are just not showing everything yet? That they are both open and closed design. That there may be insert pieces to close them up. That would be better to have both. Unless it is some weird type of ANC. It is hard to noise cancel an open type without affecting the sound.

That mic hole on the body is not cool.  Wouldn't that have you tapping on the voice mic. Not a good place for wind so it better have good wind reduction.




For certain questions need to be answered till this makes more sense.


----------



## Ceeluh7

jant71 said:


> Not liking the touch aspect on the Sony. If any shape would need a button that would be it. Or else it will be prone to unwanted presses unless it is a no single press function set up.
> 
> Any chance they are just not showing everything yet? That they are both open and closed design. That there may be insert pieces to close them up. That would be better to have both. Unless it is some weird type of ANC. It is hard to noise cancel an open type without affecting the sound.
> 
> ...


Well said. You are right there isn't enough info and I agree that it would seem it'd be very difficult to attenuate outside noise when they are clearly as open as can be... I'm sure I'm missing something


----------



## Tommy C

Ok… Strange phenomena has happened to me. I have switched my mobile service provider since I have moved last week and no longer in Canada and the audio quality using the new carrier is much improved. I usually stream when out and about and admittedly everything sounds much improved. 
Now I know, it makes no sense and I can’t a/b that but tracks that I have been listening to for the longest time sound better, more spacious and lush. Go figure!


----------



## erockg

Tommy C said:


> Ok… Strange phenomena has happened to me. I have switched my mobile service provider since I have moved last week and no longer in Canada and the audio quality using the new carrier is much improved. I usually stream when out and about and admittedly everything sounds much improved.
> Now I know, it makes no sense and I can’t a/b that but tracks that I have been listening to for the longest time sound better, more spacious and lush. Go figure!


Your old carrier may have been throttling you.


----------



## dweaver

BigZ12 said:


> For those who want a neckband adapter...
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/CC
> Qualcomm QCC5125, LDAC, AptX HD and Adaptive and 45 hours of battery.
> Seems interesting?


Thanks might take a chance on this.


----------



## Ceeluh7

Z Reviews did a (YouTube) review recently of the Utws5. You have to see what he strapped on the UTWS5. Oh and BTW @erockg ...he is using the Clairvoyance on his unit...nice


----------



## guitarizt

Sundawn said:


> HI @guitarizt , Hope u r doing well & thanks for the reply.
> Are you using your Buds Pro with a Samsung Device or a non- samsung android device? as with samsung u get their proprietery ssc codec, which i will not get with my non-samsung smartphone.
> if yes, could u also try them with a non-samsung android device and then tell me if there is any change in their Sonic & call quality performance?
> and does buds pro's bass is bloated and thumpy? how do u compare them wrt to ER4XR or B2 if u had tried them or any other near neutral iem in their Sound Signature?
> is every thing bloated or is there a good seperation b/w instruments. Are vocals flat, forward or recessed?and hows is the treble?


Not sure if someone answered since the op, but I use an iphone so unfortunately no samsung phone. I'm hoping to try them with my friend's s20 in a few weeks. I wish they had a 2-pin connector so I could use them wired. I can hear my voice in transparent mode. Their mics are best sounding imo because it has six mics if my memory serves correctly. The buds+ transparency mode is awful. I think only 2 mics, the sound is weird because low quality from the mics, and it lags which is very disorientating to me.

Bud's pro bass isn't bloated or thumpy. I haven't used etymotics or B2.

Vocals are more forward. I agree with what crin says about the pros having a warm harman sig. I think crin likes more treble than me judging by the zx crn which is really trebly to me. The pros have good separation but are def warmer than the crn's which are prob my least fav tonally of my iem's.

There are a lot of iem's I don't agree with crin's ratings on, but this one I do. The buds+ have this weird treble thing going on that drives me crazy, and tonally it's just not good enough for me to use. The pro are the only tws I use which is saying something, ignoring my utws3 + separate iems. I thought I was picky about iems when trying to find a decent tws set, but I love using the leas, ariahs, and he01's with my utws3's. Tanya's sound great, but they don't have a detachable wire. Just the pros are the bare min level for me for a normal all in one tws and it's not even close. I'll try the new airpod pros when they came out if they're lossless.

I got all my galaxy buds line on amazon used and they came like new, but I'm sure there are actual used ones and counterfeit ones out there which I was paranoid about. The used prices are just crazy good. The pros were 130 new for a bit which was a great deal, but they just raised the price back up to 150. I'm not sure if the international version for 119 would work fine in the usa or not, I've things suggesting it might have problems with some phones online. I got the buds+ for 45 and really any price is too much, but I keep them for reference. Plus returning them for 45 isn't worth the hassle.


----------



## DonMakuka (Feb 7, 2022)

putente said:


> Hi guys, a little help here...
> 
> I own a pair of Sony XM3 IEM (well worn and starting to give me some problems) and looking for a replacement soon. The natural choice should be the XM4 I guess (at home I also already use the XM4 full size headphone), but I'm also considering the Sennheiser Momentum TW2 (at home I also have the HD650 and IE800). They both cost the same for me, and as I can't test sample any of them, I'm wondering which one should I choose.
> 
> ...


Hello, I enjoyed the Sony wf-1000xm3 until one side stopped working, then I was in the same situation as you, not knowing and indecisive as to what to buy to replace the XM3 with, I was looking for something that has a similar sound as the XM3 and finally decided to go with Sennheiser Momentum True Wireless 1 and putting aside the battery and all the bugs related to this earphones the sound that this earphones produce is phenomenal at least to my ears. The sound of the Sennheiser's were superior to the Sony's. I like the sound of the Sennheiser Momentum True Wireless 1 so much that I bought a second pair as a backup. Then the Sennheiser Momentum True Wireless 2 were for sale and many of the reviews stated that there was no real difference in sound compared with the Sennheiser Momentum True Wireless 1 or that the difference is was minimal and after doing a lot of research I finally bought the Sennheiser Momentum True Wireless 2 and to my surprise The TW2 has an option in the Sennheiser App called: High-End Sound Tunning and when turned on it betters the sound. The ANC is mediocre, but the regular Noise Reduction provided by the earphone tips is spectacular, it block at least %95 of the external noise in my ears with the perfect fit. The regular Sennheiser earphone tips are good but I like to use the Ultimate Ears Super.fi 3 silicon ear tips which blocks all external noise and the sound is spectacular specially it increases the bass without interfering with the middle frequencies. One thing that I notice is that TW2 don't sound as good with my Mac or iPhone as it sounds with my Sony NW-A106 Walkman, With the Walkman I can hear and enjoy more than with the phone and the Mac. I only get 4.5 hours on the TW2, but it charges very fast, my music is in ALAC and MP3 320 with %85 volume.

As a side note, I was curious about the Blon BL03 hype and last week I bought a pair and to my surprise this things with the right earphone tips, in my case using memory earphone tips sounded better than the Sony XM3 and almost as good as the Sennheiser TW1 and TW2 as I stated... almost but very enjoyable and cheap. So this Blon are my backup.


----------



## Ceeluh7

DonMakuka said:


> Hello, I enjoyed the Sony wf-1000xm3 until one side stopped working, then I was in the same situation as you are, not knowing and indecisive as to what to buy to replace the XM3 with, I was looking for something that has a similar sound as the XM3 and finally decided to go with Sennheiser Momentum True Wireless 1 and putting aside the battery and all the bugs related to this earphones the sound that this earphones produce is phenomenal at least to my ears. The sound of the Sennheiser's were superior to the Sony's. I like the sound of the Sennheiser Momentum True Wireless 1 that I bought a second pair as a backup. Then the Sennheiser Momentum True Wireless 2 were for sale and many of the reviews stated that there was no real difference in sound compared with the Sennheiser Momentum True Wireless 1 or that the difference is was minimal and after doing a lot of research I finally bought the Sennheiser Momentum True Wireless 2 and to my surprise The TW2 has an option in the Sennheiser App called: High-End Sound Tunning and when turned on it betters the sound. The ANC is mediocre, but the regular Noise Reduction provided by the earphone tips is spectacular, it block at least %95 of the external noise in my ears with the perfect fit. The regular Sennheiser earphone tips are good but I like to use the Ultimate Ears Super.fi 3 which blocks all external noise and the sound is spectacular specially it increases the bass without interfering with the middle frequencies. One thing that I notice is that TW2 don't sound as good with my Mac or iPhone as it sounds with my Sony NW-A106 Walkman, With the Walkman I can hear and enjoy more than with the phone and the Mac. I only get 4.5 hours, but it charges very fast, my music is in ALAC and MP3 320 with %85 volume.
> 
> As a side note, I was curious about the Blon BL03 hype and last week I bought a pair and to my surprise this things with the right earphone tips, in my case memory earphone tips sounded better than the Sony XM3 and almost as good as the Sennheiser TW1 and TW2 as I stated... almost but very enjoyable and cheap. So this Blon are my backup.


I listen often to the Blon 03...give It some more clean power and they open up a bit... A fantastic $35 iem... Perfectly organic tonality which isn't easy to come by but somehow the people at Blon got it right.... again... At $35.


----------



## Caipirina

darveniza said:


> Interesting posting on Sony
> 
> https://iphone-mania.jp/news-436546/
> 
> More pictures and details at that site


Hmmmm, donuts! 



What a great time to be alive!


----------



## Caipirina

chinmie said:


> It's okay....go ahead and post it...we're all in this rabbit hole together after all


I don't have a problem ... YOU have a problem


----------



## Caipirina

jant71 said:


> Hey I posted about one. Though $32 right now they were on sale for $3.60 and actually get their share of use. They did "misspeak" about having transparency mode but the ANC is okay and the fit and sound are impressive. My next budget model coming tomorrow is from Japan. It was under $30 but that was cause I had 1848 Yen off in points from buying the CKS50TW. I bought the budget Aviot which has a nice choice of colors, aptX, ambient, and seems to sound good and have a balanced tuning.
> 
> Though I guess my Simgot, bluedio, some JVC's have ended up sold or in the drawer of doom. Few but some cheap surprises out there if you are up for the gamble. Kinda od like a fun challenge to scour and see if you can find a potential keeper in the jungle of <$20 offerings. Saw this one was kinda interesting for about $24...


I think I remember your 'Tree-Fitty' post ... but that was together with some crazy prime discount? like 70% off another 70% ... that's cheating  

Anyways ... I was so good NOT to go for any further stupid budget 'one night stands' ... now I feel validated in continuing my crazy search  
Or not  ... 

I really have enough ...


----------



## Caipirina

darveniza said:


> Interesting posting on Sony
> 
> https://iphone-mania.jp/news-436546/
> 
> More pictures and details at that site



 I think I got it!

They are actually really small (not like that bulb of the XM4),

I speculate they will fit in the ear just like the Samsung Galaxy Beans! (in this case, sign me up ! )


----------



## xuan87

Whoo! Marshall Motif delivered 3 weeks early and out of nowhere this morning.

Early impressions were mostly positive:

ANC works well and doesn't change the sound quality, so I'm keeping removing the "Turn off ANC" option, and keeping it toggled between "ANC" and "Transparency"
Sound quality is good as expected, since I love the Mode II
The unit itself fits very well in my ear, especially the short stem which just slots into my ear's intertragic notch (had to google this). I feel it helps to hold the earphones in place.
Connection stability seems to be better than Mode II, but I only used it for a short while
Some concerns that require further testing:

App seems to show less options for Motif, such as no custom EQ, and button control options
Mode II seems to sound better, but I'm using a custom EQ on the Mode II.


----------



## helmutcheese (Feb 7, 2022)

BigZ12 said:


> For those who want a neckband adapter...
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005002842506128.html
> Qualcomm QCC5125, LDAC, AptX HD and Adaptive and 45 hours of battery.
> Seems interesting?


The other listings with the same model show same 500mA battery but list as only 22 hours so watch that 45 hour claim may be BS also has them as BT5.1 which BT 5.0 can be updated to if the Chipset/Maker supports Firmware updates.


----------



## DonMakuka

Ceeluh7 said:


> I listen often to the Blon 03...give It some more clean power and they open up a bit... A fantastic $35 iem... Perfectly organic tonality which isn't easy to come by but somehow the people at Blon got it right.... again... At $35.


I'm planning to buy another set.


----------



## DonMakuka

Caipirina said:


> I don't have a problem ... YOU have a problem


Awesome collection... Wow!!! Which is your favorite? and why. Do you have the Bowers & Wilkings Pi7?


----------



## Caipirina (Feb 7, 2022)

DonMakuka said:


> Awesome collection... Wow!!! Which is your favorite? and why. Do you have the Bowers & Wilkings Pi7?


No, I have not .. I resisted at certain pricy models like those and the Gemini ... I try to reign in my addiction ...

My top keeps always changing, depends on mood / weather .. i.e I love the Bose QC for running, but it is winter hat weather now and that just does not work with them, so I use the Fiil T2 Pro, which are great in sound and fit ... The Sony XM4 are also great, but not that easy to wear, they kinda get loose when I walk, have not even tried running ... they sure sound awesome ... currently I am re-falling in love with the apple ecosystem, the Beats Fit came with half year of free apple music and I am getting to know and appreciate that, also how well that works with H1 chip buds (like the APP and the Powerbeats pro) ...  Still having a soft spot for the Galaxy Beans, different fit, dynamic sound ... so, i basically love and appreciate all of them for their differences ... don't make me select a favourite child 

That being said, there are some utter pieces of crap in those boxes  Some that constantly try to kidnap the BT connection, even though they are in their case, some that are cheap copies (not all copies are bad though, I have one set of clone airpods 1 that sound better IMHO than the original ones) ... some with charging issues ...


----------



## LordToneeus

Caipirina said:


> I don't have a problem ... YOU have a problem


Ok, that is far more than I had imagined. 😂


----------



## guitarizt

Caipirina said:


> No, I have not .. I resisted at certain pricy models like those and the Gemini ... I try to reign in my addiction ...
> 
> My top keeps always changing, depends on mood / weather .. i.e I love the Bose QC for running, but it is winter hat weather now and that just does not work with them, so I use the Fiil T2 Pro, which are great in sound and fit ... The Sony XM4 are also great, but not that easy to wear, they kinda get loose when I walk, have not even tried running ... they sure sound awesome ... currently I am re-falling in love with the apple ecosystem, the Beats Fit came with half year of free apple music and I am getting to know and appreciate that, also how well that works with H1 chip buds (like the APP and the Powerbeats pro) ...  Still having a soft spot for the Galaxy Beans, different fit, dynamic sound ... so, i basically love and appreciate all of them for their differences ... don't make me select a favourite child
> 
> That being said, there are some utter pieces of crap in those boxes  Some that constantly try to kidnap the BT connection, even though they are in their case, some that are cheap copies (not all copies are bad though, I have one set of clone airpods 1 that sound better IMHO than the original ones) ... some with charging issues ...


I wanna try the bose sports, but the price is a huge barrier. They also seem to hold their resale value insanely well. I also like the galaxy lives for something diff. I'm using my pros right now as I type this. I think I'm done going down the tws without adapter road until the air pod pros with lossless come out. Like the person with the blon 3 said, the cheap iems sound amazing compared to much higher price point tws's, and you can get different flavors from multiple models. I also have had bad experiences not really liking anything other than the galaxy pros, but I've liked so much at the sub $100 wired iem range.


----------



## helmutcheese (Feb 7, 2022)

Beyerdynamic Blue BYRD (2nd Generation)​These would be a better bet than the AliExpress ones IMO if you are looking for a BT 5.2 Aptx Adaptive Neckband 14 hours battery and App support.


----------



## fablestruck

AudioBomb said:


> Have just ordered Nuraphone.
> 
> After listening to Nuraloop I'm sold. This is one of the best IEMs (including wired) I've heard.


Hey,
Got them recently as well but was not impressed about the sound.
How about your long-term experience?


----------



## erockg

Caipirina said:


> I don't have a problem ... YOU have a problem


Legendary photo!  1-800-GET-HELP


----------



## BobJS

Caipirina said:


> I don't have a problem ... YOU have a problem




Impressive ... not that you have 2 or 3 times as many as I do ... but that your collection is neatly stored in boxes.  I wouldn't be able to find all of mine if my life depended on it.


----------



## Caipirina

BobJS said:


> Impressive ... not that you have 2 or 3 times as many as I do ... but that your collection is neatly stored in boxes.  I wouldn't be able to find all of mine if my life depended on it.


Who says these are all?  

(I know only of 2 sets missing in the picture, Tozo N9 and QCY HT03, are with other family ppl …)


----------



## tiagopinto

Tommy C said:


> That's steep. I bought mine off Amazon Canada with the SE215 Special Edition for $160 USD.



Can you still get them at that price in Canada? If not, what’s the current lowest price?


----------



## regancipher

hahahahaha impressive

I just sold a lot of mine - 1More Comfobuds Pro, Jabra Elite 75t, SoundPEATS TrueAir2, ZMI PurPods, etc.

Funnily enough I can't sell the CC Pro. Nobody wants them here in the UK


----------



## BooleanBones

Caipirina said:


> I don't have a problem ... YOU have a problem


This may go beyond the standard hazardous placard if you ever move from Japan


----------



## darveniza

helmutcheese said:


> Beyerdynamic Blue BYRD (2nd Generation)​These would be a better bet than the AliExpress ones IMO if you are looking for a BT 5.2 Aptx Adaptive Neckband 14 hours battery and App support.



Would have liked some sort of ANC, would make tehse very compelling


----------



## bladefd

Caipirina said:


> I don't have a problem ... YOU have a problem


Do you even use 99% of them? Lol, not enough time in the world to get much use out of most of them! Sell them except for the 5 you use the most and get some cash.


----------



## DonMakuka

Caipirina said:


> No, I have not .. I resisted at certain pricy models like those and the Gemini ... I try to reign in my addiction ...
> 
> My top keeps always changing, depends on mood / weather .. i.e I love the Bose QC for running, but it is winter hat weather now and that just does not work with them, so I use the Fiil T2 Pro, which are great in sound and fit ... The Sony XM4 are also great, but not that easy to wear, they kinda get loose when I walk, have not even tried running ... they sure sound awesome ... currently I am re-falling in love with the apple ecosystem, the Beats Fit came with half year of free apple music and I am getting to know and appreciate that, also how well that works with H1 chip buds (like the APP and the Powerbeats pro) ...  Still having a soft spot for the Galaxy Beans, different fit, dynamic sound ... so, i basically love and appreciate all of them for their differences ... don't make me select a favourite child
> 
> That being said, there are some utter pieces of crap in those boxes  Some that constantly try to kidnap the BT connection, even though they are in their case, some that are cheap copies (not all copies are bad though, I have one set of clone airpods 1 that sound better IMHO than the original ones) ... some with charging issues ...


I understand... each one does something right. I had the AirPods Pro and the ANC is fantastic. I have the AirPods 2, they are very comfortable and the bluetooth connection is stellar, just the sound is not the great with music. I like the AirPods 2 for podcasts while I'm doing something things around the house.


----------



## Caipirina (Feb 7, 2022)

BooleanBones said:


> This may go beyond the standard hazardous placard if you ever move from Japan


Which I just did … OOOOPS! 

(Miss read the ‘from’ as ‘to’)


----------



## jant71

Got these little cuties in a bit ago...


----------



## Ceeluh7

jant71 said:


> Got these little cuties in a bit ago...


Almost looks like a lypertek shell. How do they sound?


----------



## Caipirina

bladefd said:


> Do you even use 99% of them? Lol, not enough time in the world to get much use out of most of them! Sell them except for the 5 you use the most and get some cash.


On occasion I run through them all to see if they are still working. 
I actually tried to sell of some, but with the cheap ones it is too much hassle and no one appreciates the more expensive one, unless they are brand names. (Have a great set of Mifo O7 with box … the hybrid driver set up … no takers) … in most cases I could not keep the boxes for space and other reasons …


----------



## jant71 (Feb 7, 2022)

Ceeluh7 said:


> Almost looks like a lypertek shell. How do they sound?


First the basic specs: SBC/AAC/aptX, 10 hour/50hour battery, IPX7, 4.6 grams each side, 6mm drivers, ambient, full controls for all on the buds,  Aviot sound XXX app.

Well Aviot has their own sound so it is something different. Bass is dialed down so a bit mid treble forward out of the box. Bass still has reach and some thump to it though. It is indeed dialed down if you get my drift. Not rolled or lessened but more like the rest is EQ'd up. AT EQ is a bit lacking in bass and pretty bright so we know they are flipping what the Solid Bass is going for. Pretty clean sounding and enjoyable. Nothing negative to say. I don't like the stock tips. A bit firm. Pink with red core instead of red that matches more and the bore is a bit too small that it leaves stage smaller than they can portray. They are more balanced as smaller bore does up the bass to more even. They also stick out a bit more with the stock tips for me. Some new toy syndrome and no comparison to anything else but quite nice sounding so far and nice fit. A bit chunky depth wise. Very much like Lypertek with a more rounded face.

There is a very basic quick graph someone did...





Does seem to be pretty close to what I think they are. There is a higher boost to them that is to liven them and is not overdone or bad in any way and a nice change from the prevalent budget consumer sound,


----------



## erockg

Endgame?


----------



## jant71

erockg said:


> Endgame?


Not on the adapter side.


----------



## erockg

jant71 said:


> Not on the adapter side.


I'm really enjoying the UTWS5.  TW2 power the Kato great.  But maybe my ears are old and burned out.  My iPhone keeps telling me to turn the volume down.


----------



## jant71

erockg said:


> I'm really enjoying the UTWS5.  TW2 power the Kato great.  But maybe my ears are old and burned out.  My iPhone keeps telling me to turn the volume down.


Are they independent volume wise, the FiiO? Maybe turn them up some and the iPhone down some.


----------



## erockg

jant71 said:


> Are they independent volume wise, the FiiO? Maybe turn them up some and the iPhone down some.


The MK2 take a bit more power than the Clairvoyance it seems.  Yes, the FiiO have two volumes.  I usually just turn up the buds, then only use my phone for volume controls.  You trying to get me to trick the phone?  LOL


----------



## jant71 (Feb 7, 2022)

erockg said:


> The MK2 take a bit more power than the Clairvoyance it seems.  Yes, the FiiO have two volumes.  I usually just turn up the buds, then only use my phone for volume controls.  You trying to get me to trick the phone?  LOL


Not trick it but if you have the headroom on the FiiO to drop the phone it may shut the phone volume message up. Though you might need the power of both up high.


----------



## Not so fat head

Caipirina said:


> I don't have a problem ... YOU have a problem


Ha!!!  Now that’s a collection…


----------



## nekonhime

Caipirina said:


> I don't have a problem ... YOU have a problem


Damn.... I am speechless


----------



## chinmie

erockg said:


> Endgame?



for now, maybe... it's hard to find "the endgame" in this hobby, especially TWSs as the tech still progresses each year  

i did manage to put the brake on though when it comes to wired (headphones, earbuds, and IEMs), having found sets that perfectly fit my preference. I don't have the desire to add new ones on that category anymore..unless one of them breaks down that i need to find a replacement. 

TWS are harder.. even though i manage not to buy a new one for this past few months, I'm still always on the lookout for new things that might catch my interest


----------



## chinmie

Caipirina said:


> I don't have a problem ... YOU have a problem



nice! I'm saving this picture. so whenever i would buy another one, i could show this to my wife and say that i still have a lot of catching up to do


----------



## erockg

chinmie said:


> for now, maybe... it's hard to find "the endgame" in this hobby, especially TWSs as the tech still progresses each year
> 
> i did manage to put the brake on though when it comes to wired (headphones, earbuds, and IEMs), having found sets that perfectly fit my preference. I don't have the desire to add new ones on that category anymore..unless one of them breaks down that i need to find a replacement.
> 
> TWS are harder.. even though i manage not to buy a new one for this past few months, I'm still always on the lookout for new things that might catch my interest


Yep, it was sorta meant as a joke.  Endgame THIS WEEK   Selling off the ones I don't use, keeping this little lot for now.


----------



## AudioBomb

Have just put my Nuraphone for sale. No use. Check them out, they sound terrific.


----------



## Ceeluh7

jant71 said:


> First the basic specs: SBC/AAC/aptX, 10 hour/50hour battery, IPX7, 4.6 grams each side, 6mm drivers, ambient, full controls for all on the buds,  Aviot sound XXX app.
> 
> Well Aviot has their own sound so it is something different. Bass is dialed down so a bit mid treble forward out of the box. Bass still has reach and some thump to it though. It is indeed dialed down if you get my drift. Not rolled or lessened but more like the rest is EQ'd up. AT EQ is a bit lacking in bass and pretty bright so we know they are flipping what the Solid Bass is going for. Pretty clean sounding and enjoyable. Nothing negative to say. I don't like the stock tips. A bit firm. Pink with red core instead of red that matches more and the bore is a bit too small that it leaves stage smaller than they can portray. They are more balanced as smaller bore does up the bass to more even. They also stick out a bit more with the stock tips for me. Some new toy syndrome and no comparison to anything else but quite nice sounding so far and nice fit. A bit chunky depth wise. Very much like Lypertek with a more rounded face.
> 
> ...


Dude.... Thank you. That's is a good reply. Pretty much tells me all there is to know without actually hearing them...thanks. I love good quality bass over quantity every day of the week and I like a slightly bright signature without harshness... You rarely find tws with these qualities... Actually I rarely hear tws with the qualities, some of you guys buy a set a day... Lol. Anyways I know AVIOT makes some decent earbuds and these do look enticing


----------



## jant71 (Feb 7, 2022)

Ceeluh7 said:


> Dude.... Thank you. That's is a good reply. Pretty much tells me all there is to know without actually hearing them...thanks. I love good quality bass over quantity every day of the week and I like a slightly bright signature without harshness... You rarely find tws with these qualities... Actually I rarely hear tws with the qualities, some of you guys buy a set a day... Lol. Anyways I know AVIOT makes some decent earbuds and these do look enticing



I'll add some other stuff I have noticed putting them through their paces a bit. Downsides are two things I have found. The buttons are hard to press. Nicer to need less force to press them. Also volume is on the left bud and track change is on the right but I would rather volume up was 2 presses instead of three. I guess the messages being in Japanese might bother someone but they connect so fast I don't hear the connection message and once on she only talks when ambient is turned on.  She whispers anyhow. Quietest vocal prompts I have heard on a TWS.

Rest of the stuff is pretty good. Good volume on them. Ambient is 2 second hold on the L and pauses the music. Hold again and it turns off and auto resumes playing. You can play music with the ambient on as well. Ambient has a very light hiss but otherwise quite clean. Not much hiss and ambient here is better than the budget JVC A11T and better than the Jabra Elite 3 but a bit below the CKS50TW. 4 lights on the charge case to show the battery life and they don't come on when you open the case so it saves battery by only showing them when taking out/putting in the buds. Also it is quick, like 2 seconds and it shuts off. For those who dislike bright LEDs...

...we have a dim orange-red subtle glow as they are charging or playing. These would not bother a sleep partner. Can't even start to see them till low light levels.

For me I think these are the fun champs so far. In some of the same ways the FiiO JH3 is. A similar even proportion of the stage, similar very low bass punch and feel but higher is lighter and quicker, similar forward mid focus(both with wide bore somewhat softer tips), nice treble articulation, and both have a very good response to EQ.  Also the not so hot showing the volume levels between different tracks more easily. Can be a similar kind of fun but the EQ to perfect them is different and of course they don't sound the same but a bit similar and share those traits.


----------



## tinyman392

erockg said:


> I'm really enjoying the UTWS5.  TW2 power the Kato great.  But maybe my ears are old and burned out.  My iPhone keeps telling me to turn the volume down.


The iPhone tries to estimate output SPL to protect your hearing. On headphones that are harder to drive it will severely underestimate the output volume. Additionally, if you have your phone maxed out and controlling volume with the UTWS5, it will assume that’s maxed out too (like 100-120 dB). I know on a few external amps I had this issue when listening to my HE-560. 

Go into settings > [BT device name] > Device Type, then select something else. Note that if you do this it will stop trying to predict volume level on that headphone. 

For things like AirPods and Beats it will be extremely accurate though.


----------



## Ceeluh7

jant71 said:


> I'll add some other stuff I have noticed putting them through their paces a bit. Downsides are two things I have found. The buttons are hard to press. Nicer to need less force to press them. Also volume is on the left bud and track change is on the right but I would rather volume up was 2 presses instead of three. I guess the messages being in Japanese might bother someone but they connect so fast I don't hear the connection message and once on she only talks when ambient is turned on.  She whispers anyhow. Quietest vocal prompts I have heard on a TWS.
> 
> Rest of the stuff is pretty good. Good volume on them. Ambient is 2 second hold on the L and pauses the music. Hold again and it turns off and auto resumes playing. You can play music with the ambient on as well. Ambient has a very light hiss but otherwise quite clean. Not much hiss and ambient here is better than the budget JVC A11T and better than the Jabra Elite 3 but a bit below the CKS50TW. 4 lights on the charge case to show the battery life and they don't come on when you open the case so it saves battery by only showing them when taking out/putting in the buds. Also it is quick, like 2 seconds and it shuts off. For those who dislike bright LEDs...
> 
> ...


Extremely helpful. Thank you. I'm checking these out for sure. A different tuning which sounds nice.


----------



## cresny

Cross-post info: UTWS5 latest beta
1.38 now supports toggling ambient mode via triple-click. I've played with it and it's pretty good as long as you're not maxing out volume in the FIOS app. If you are, then someone washing dishes can break your eardrums.


----------



## erockg

tinyman392 said:


> The iPhone tries to estimate output SPL to protect your hearing. On headphones that are harder to drive it will severely underestimate the output volume. Additionally, if you have your phone maxed out and controlling volume with the UTWS5, it will assume that’s maxed out too (like 100-120 dB). I know on a few external amps I had this issue when listening to my HE-560.
> 
> Go into settings > [BT device name] > Device Type, then select something else. Note that if you do this it will stop trying to predict volume level on that headphone.
> 
> For things like AirPods and Beats it will be extremely accurate though.


Just want to make sure we're talking about the same thing.  "Headphone Safety" notifications?  I get that when I'm cranking it up and listening for hours a day.  Granted, during this WFH life, I do listen a bit much.


----------



## erockg

cresny said:


> Cross-post info: UTWS5 latest beta
> 1.38 now supports toggling ambient mode via triple-click. I've played with it and it's pretty good as long as you're not maxing out volume in the FIOS app. If you are, then someone washing dishes can break your eardrums.


How the heck would I have know that in the beta?!  They don't show that in the button function options.  At least not on _my_ iPhone.  This is AWESOME!  Thanks for pointing it out


----------



## tinyman392

erockg said:


> Just want to make sure we're talking about the same thing.  "Headphone Safety" notifications?  I get that when I'm cranking it up and listening for hours a day.  Granted, during this WFH life, I do listen a bit much.


Yes, iOS estimates how loud you are listening to your headphones at and if you listen for too loud for too long, it’ll warn you or even reduce volume automatically.  For AirPods and Beats (BT) headphones, it’s nearly 100% accurate, with others it is just that, an estimate.  If you listen too loudly for too long, it’ll send you a warning and may even turn down your volume.  So if you have your iPhone’s volume set to max (but your UTWS5 set midway or something) it‘ll assume that you’re listening at max since it’s blind to the UTWS5’s volume level, so it’ll think you’re listening at like 100+ dB.  In general, with most headphones, I’ve found it to be around 5-ish dB off; it tends to overestimate as well in my experience (though I can only ballpark SPL based on what I’m hearing).  Though there are examples where it’ll be far off (if I’m running a hard to drive headphone that needs more volume, it’ll overestimate it higher). 

If you are legitimately cranking it up, then the warning likely is close to real.  If you have it cranked up on the iPhone but not the UTWS5, then the warning is a dud and it might be useful to change the device type in settings.  Or if you just want to get rid of the warning.  The warning is good to have if it is estimating correctly.


----------



## erockg

tinyman392 said:


> Yes, iOS estimates how loud you are listening to your headphones at and if you listen for too loud for too long, it’ll warn you or even reduce volume automatically.  For AirPods and Beats (BT) headphones, it’s nearly 100% accurate, with others it is just that, an estimate.  If you listen too loudly for too long, it’ll send you a warning and may even turn down your volume.  So if you have your iPhone’s volume set to max (but your UTWS5 set midway or something) it‘ll assume that you’re listening at max since it’s blind to the UTWS5’s volume level, so it’ll think you’re listening at like 100+ dB.  In general, with most headphones, I’ve found it to be around 5-ish dB off; it tends to overestimate as well in my experience (though I can only ballpark SPL based on what I’m hearing).  Though there are examples where it’ll be far off (if I’m running a hard to drive headphone that needs more volume, it’ll overestimate it higher).
> 
> If you are legitimately cranking it up, then the warning likely is close to real.  If you have it cranked up on the iPhone but not the UTWS5, then the warning is a dud and it might be useful to change the device type in settings.  Or if you just want to get rid of the warning.  The warning is good to have if it is estimating correctly.


Interesting.  I usually max the FiiO adapter volume and then use my phone.  Depending on my IEM, I either have to raise or lower the volume on my iPhone more.  Phone here shows about 70-80db for music volume I think.  I'm sure I'm blowing my ears out and maxing my weekly quota.


----------



## tinyman392

erockg said:


> Interesting.  I usually max the FiiO adapter volume and then use my phone.  Depending on my IEM, I either have to raise or lower the volume on my iPhone more.  Phone here shows about 70-80db for music volume I think.  I'm sure I'm blowing my ears out and maxing my weekly quota.


You could be hitting your weekly quota, but that’s difficult to do. Below 75 dB, Apple sets no limits (as if you extrapolate from this, you’d need to listen for more than a week during a week to hit its limit). Otherwise the limits are: 75 dB - 127 hr/wk, 80 dB - 40 hr/wk, 90 dB - 4 hr/wk, 100 dB - 24 min/wk, 110 dB - 4 min/wk, and 120 dB - 1 min/wk. 127 hours is just over 5 days. 

Note that there is a possibility that the iPhone is over-reading by 3-5 dB. But it depends on the IEM you have hooked up and how much power the iPhone thinks is being pushed.


----------



## Caipirina

chinmie said:


> nice! I'm saving this picture. so whenever i would buy another one, i could show this to my wife and say that i still have a lot of catching up to do


wouldn't a picture of her shoes / handbag collection be better?


----------



## Tommy C

tiagopinto said:


> Can you still get them at that price in Canada? If not, what’s the current lowest price?


Yes, last time I checked they are still available on Amazon Canada for that price.


----------



## Ultrainferno

In our latest article we check out the brand new Lypertek PurePlay Z5 TWS IEM.
Find out how the Lypertek Z5 performs, sounds and compares + why we're giving it our recommended buy award, now on Headfonia!

https://www.headfonia.com/lypertek-pureplay-z5-review/


----------



## Dobrescu George

The day you can game, and also use a TWS or True Wireless IEM for it is here! We have a really interesting product here, the Sirius Pro+ from GravaStar, an IEM with extremely low latency, but excellent warm, impactful sonic performance, and an edgy design, inspired from the Cyberpunk fashion. More details on its performance, sonic modes, and comparisons with the competition in today's full written review on this high quality TWS Earphone~ 

https://www.audiophile-heaven.com/2...pro-pro-tws-iems-gaming-edge-performance.html


----------



## tiagopinto

erockg said:


> My wife usually says, you on that forum again?



Now there’s a phrase I hear daily, hahahaha.


----------



## tiagopinto

Tommy C said:


> Yes, last time I checked they are still available on Amazon Canada for that price.



Thanks. I was wondering if there would be an even better deal somewhere other than Amazon. Anyway 230 CAD is very tempting (this translates to 158 EUR, while they are 230 EUR in most euro Amazons). If only I could find someone I know who’s visiting Portugal soon...


----------



## mt877

jant71 said:


> I hope Sony answers with their new buds of similar style to replace the old Xperia Duo otherwise there is nothing else that is open and doesn't go in the ear. The old Sony still does go in the ear like a donut and could use updating on that design.



A few pics from the Walkman Blog of the upcoming Sony WF-L900. These are also supposed to have noise cancelling. I would say pretty innovative design.


----------



## Ceeluh7

tiagopinto said:


> Now there’s a phrase I hear daily, hahahaha.


My wife always loves to ask... "Are you texting your Audio Nerds".... "Yes Babe"... Lol. She normally walks away calling me a dork... Which is justified, I prob am quite a dork


----------



## erockg

Ceeluh7 said:


> My wife always loves to ask... "Are you texting your Audio Nerds".... "Yes Babe"... Lol. She normally walks away calling me a dork... Which is justified, I prob am quite a dork


Better than another woman, right?  Sigh…


----------



## HaliHarry (Feb 8, 2022)

Received the fw1000t and used it for 3 days.  vocals are perfect.  However, I'm getting used to the bass quality on the AZ60 with dynamic EQ adjustment, so I feel a bit lacking in sub-bass on the fw1000t.  however after I realized the spiral dot tips stock on the fw1000t lowers the bass for clearer vocals, I replaced the tips stock of the az60 and things seem to have improved.  i'm trying to burn in it more time


----------



## helmutcheese (Feb 9, 2022)

No sure how they are going to cut out noise if they do not even give a good passive seal, weirdest looking earphones (yes including earphones from years gone by not newer buds) I have ever seen.

If you took off the branding it would look more like a Fidget Spinner or some kind of bearing (the silver part) not a listening device.


----------



## jant71

erockg said:


> Better than another woman, right?  Sigh…


Or is it? Maybe more than one answer to the question - Why do those new Sony have that hole in the middle?


----------



## chinmie

Caipirina said:


> wouldn't a picture of her shoes / handbag collection be better?



of course that too, but I'm building a solid argument here, so all supporting evidence would be a great addition


----------



## waxler

TWS earbuds are not there yet.

We have to wait for the new LC3 codec which will hopefully be capable of CD quality audio in optimal conditions. We'll see.

Until then, lossy music with LDAC or LHDC is your best bet.


----------



## Ceeluh7

erockg said:


> Better than another woman, right?  Sigh…


So true... Ya at least she's cool about it all... She's a funny girl man. I'm good with the one I got... Lol


----------



## Ceeluh7

jant71 said:


> Or is it? Maybe more than one answer to the question - Why do those new Sony have that hole in the middle?


Hahahaha..... Boys.... Can't even look at a hole in a Earbud without the mind jumping headfirst into the gutter... Lol... Funny man


----------



## jant71 (Feb 8, 2022)

HaliHarry said:


> Received the fw1000t and used it for 3 days.  vocals are perfect.  However, I'm getting used to the bass quality on the AZ60 with dynamic EQ adjustment, so I feel a bit lacking in sub-bass on the fw1000t.  however after I realized the spiral dot tips stock on the fw1000t lowers the bass for clearer vocals, I replaced the tips stock of the az60 and things seem to have improved.  i'm trying to burn in it more time


I keep hearing at least a few complain about low volume on these. What say you after 3 days? 


Also saw these...



New tips from Moondrop...



Not longer then 10mm so good for many TWS as well. Features "...newly developed "high frequency waveguide structure" that suppresses high-frequency resonance and a "radial double support structure" that enhances the fit. The high-frequency waveguide structure was developed based on FEA (finite element analysis) simulation and repeated verification, and greatly suppresses high-frequency resonance that enters the ear canal through the nozzle. It is said to reproduce a more natural and relaxed high range."


----------



## HaliHarry (Feb 8, 2022)

jant71 said:


> I keep hearing at least a few complain about low volume on these. What say you after 3 days?
> 
> 
> Also saw these...
> ...


Volume of fw1000t is enough for me, although it lower than AZ60. I always play music with high level volume and i set 85% on fw1000t compare with 70% on AZ60. I really like 100 level adjustments of fw1000t. It helps me find my perfect volume level. 
Moondrop eartips isn't appreciated in my country. They like acoustune AET07, Ortofon and Azla Sedna Light


----------



## erockg

jant71 said:


> I keep hearing at least a few complain about low volume on these. What say you after 3 days?
> 
> 
> Also saw these...
> ...


I'm using them now on the Kato.  I really like them.


----------



## erockg

Ceeluh7 said:


> So true... Ya at least she's cool about it all... She's a funny girl man. I'm good with the one I got... Lol


Good answer 100%


----------



## bladefd

Ceeluh7 said:


> Hahahaha..... Boys.... Can't even look at a hole in a Earbud without the mind jumping headfirst into the gutter... Lol... Funny man


That is what we men are best at - being children! Our minds never seem to grow up lol


----------



## cresny

jant71 said:


> Or is it? Maybe more than one answer to the question - Why do those new Sony have that hole in the middle?


joking aside, isn't that just some photo effect? Angled photo clearly shows a metal backing.


----------



## jant71 (Feb 8, 2022)

cresny said:


> joking aside, isn't that just some photo effect? Angled photo clearly shows a metal backing.









Looks like, from the angle, you can see the black inside plastic on the other side. up on the right side one looks like you can see through to the metal side.


----------



## Ceeluh7

bladefd said:


> That is what we men are best at - being children! Our minds never seem to grow up lol


LOL... Right! Dude look at this group, just a bunch of dudes playing with our toys man.... Ha... You're right


----------



## bladefd

jant71 said:


> Looks like, from the angle, you can see the black inside plastic on the other side. up on the right side one looks like you can see through to the metal side.


I don't know how it would sit in the ear.. People had issues with the Samsung bean earbuds. I don't know why this one would not be hell to keep in the ear too.


----------



## cresny

jant71 said:


> Looks like, from the angle, you can see the black inside plastic on the other side. up on the right side one looks like you can see through to the metal side.


yup, I see now. The black and white photos were playing tricks on me. Looks like we will indeed be getting


----------



## darveniza

HaliHarry said:


> Received the fw1000t and used it for 3 days.  vocals are perfect.  However, I'm getting used to the bass quality on the AZ60 with dynamic EQ adjustment, so I feel a bit lacking in sub-bass on the fw1000t.  however after I realized the spiral dot tips stock on the fw1000t lowers the bass for clearer vocals, I replaced the tips stock of the az60 and things seem to have improved.  i'm trying to burn in it more time


Have you tried all the controls??. This thing has a lot of features via controls


----------



## clerkpalmer

erockg said:


> Better than another woman, right?


Yes or a cocaine habit.

Grabbed the Philips T1 via Amazon UK.  Price ended up being about the same as shipped in the US.  Hopefully returns are an option.  I've been on the sidelines for a bit and this looks like one of the more interesting releases in a while.  Will report back upon arrival.  I'm sure now that I've ordered from the UK, theyll be on Amazon US tonight with 1 day delivery ....


----------



## regancipher

mt877 said:


> A few pics from the Walkman Blog of the upcoming Sony WF-L900. These are also supposed to have noise cancelling. I would say pretty innovative design.


These look right up my street. Anything that looks ridiculous and like it couldn't fit anyone's ears seems to fit me perfectly the older I get!

On another note, whilst I'm not crazy on the 1More Omthing Airfree 2, I've discovered today they support multipoint! A poster on Reddit pointed it out, I've tested it and it definitely works. Considering they have fair ANC, wireless charging, aptX and multipoint, their current UK price of £34.99 on Amazon is a steal.


----------



## Ceeluh7

clerkpalmer said:


> Yes or a cocaine habit.
> 
> Grabbed the Philips T1 via Amazon UK.  Price ended up being about the same as shipped in the US.  Hopefully returns are an option.  I've been on the sidelines for a bit and this looks like one of the more interesting releases in a while.  Will report back upon arrival.  I'm sure now that I've ordered from the UK, theyll be on Amazon US tonight with 1 day delivery ....


Did you search out "Phillips T1" in the search bar or Fidelio T1? I was looking and couldn't find it... Just curious


----------



## clerkpalmer

Ceeluh7 said:


> Did you search out "Phillips T1" in the search bar or Fidelio T1? I was looking and couldn't find it... Just curious


1 left:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/T1BK-00-Ph...d_rd_i=B09P5DB2YM&psc=1&ref_=pd_bap_m_rp_1_sc


----------



## chinmie

bladefd said:


> I don't know how it would sit in the ear.. People had issues with the Samsung bean earbuds. I don't know why this one would not be hell to keep in the ear too.



true. open earbuds type does have a harder fit on some people due to the non-customizable eartips. that being said though, for those who can use them without much problems (me included, fortunately) using open design earbuds like this might be a more preferable solution, because typically i can use them in much longer session much more comfortably than IEMs. 

the samsung buds live/beans is by far one of the most used TWS in my rotation, especially indoors when background noises are less problematic


----------



## HaliHarry

darveniza said:


> Have you tried all the controls??. This thing has a lot of features via controls


Ya that's right. Controls is comprehensive, touchsensor is very sensitive. However, ANC and ambient sound seem not good, and K2 feature is very hard to on offf but its ok because i always set it on


----------



## dmphile (Feb 8, 2022)

I finally found the sound signature I wanted. These are incredible when hooked up to the FiiO UTWS5.

I went from the OH10/FH3 > FH9 and no regrets so far. Such a fun and immersive sonic profile with solid bass extension. Pure bliss.


----------



## bronco1015

Caipirina said:


> Love my Bose QC, they were for a time my preferred running buds, despite the size. Now it’s winter and they don’t fit under wool hats


They also don't play well with masks. I was traveling this past weekend, and nearly lost the left bud when adjusting my mask because the strap unexpectedly moved.


----------



## Caipirina

bronco1015 said:


> They also don't play well with masks. I was traveling this past weekend, and nearly lost the left bud when adjusting my mask because the strap unexpectedly moved.


That's the reason why I don't use my Powerbuds Pro anymore .. hook / mask / hat  .. the pre-run game is usually earbuds in, strap on mask, put on hat .. then wife comes to ask something and I can't hear her


----------



## Caipirina

This is a bit of a reach, but I am having trouble with my KZ VX10 and maybe someone here knows a fix (Ali seller is not responding) ... trying to keep the prelude short: I ordered those 11/11 for cheap and spur of the moment. They arrived, left bud not charging / working .. .long back & forth with seller / videos / pictures ... after 3 weeks they finally agree to send a replacement, which somehow gets lost in the mail (by now of course I can't dispute anymore) .. anyways, they DO send again, and it arrived, and it charges and it plays music ... BUT ... it does not sync with the right side!!! I tried all the usual tricks in the book (I think), down to following THOSE reset instructions in the manual, while making sure BT is turned off on my phone as well ... still, those 2 buds won't hand shake and eventually (when I turn BT on again on phone) show up as 2 separate items ... 





I am still miffed they did not simply send me a whole new set (there was also the chance it was not the bud that was defective, but the charging case) ... or send instructions on how to pair the 2 sides ...   

anyone? 

Bueller?


----------



## nekonhime

Caipirina said:


> This is a bit of a reach, but I am having trouble with my KZ VX10 and maybe someone here knows a fix (Ali seller is not responding) ... trying to keep the prelude short: I ordered those 11/11 for cheap and spur of the moment. They arrived, left bud not charging / working .. .long back & forth with seller / videos / pictures ... after 3 weeks they finally agree to send a replacement, which somehow gets lost in the mail (by now of course I can't dispute anymore) .. anyways, they DO send again, and it arrived, and it charges and it plays music ... BUT ... it does not sync with the right side!!! I tried all the usual tricks in the book (I think), down to following THOSE reset instructions in the manual, while making sure BT is turned off on my phone as well ... still, those 2 buds won't hand shake and eventually (when I turn BT on again on phone) show up as 2 separate items ...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Do you mind if I ask your opinion about the sound quality, fit, connection of the earbuds?


----------



## Phaethon

dmphile said:


> I finally found the sound signature I wanted. These are incredible when hooked up to the FiiO UTWS5.
> 
> I went from the OH10/FH3 > FH9 and no regrets so far. Such a fun and immersive sonic profile with solid bass extension. Pure bliss.


+100.   This is where I’ve landed at the moment as well. Kinda OH10 -> FH7 -> FH9. Everything seems just the way it should be on the FH9s. Huge stage, details all through the frequencies, and a just plain fun tuning. It’s an awesome set and I’m doing it less-wire using the iFi go Blu, which is awesome as well! The go Blu has a rock-solid connection, a few sound effect settings, and a volume knob(!). iPhone stays in my coat pocket, go Blu in my shirt pocket and my movement is no longer in danger from the cord. I’ve pretty much given up on ear-hook adapters due to fatigue and pain from ear chafing by the hooks.

@erockg  - in your picture above am I seeing the Monarch MK2 as well as the Clairvoyant? If so, color me jealous. I think you bought the pair of MK2s I had in my shopping cart while I dithered!


----------



## dweaver

My FH5 will be hear Friday if they stay on schedule. Really looking forward to seeing how they sound. If the make me really happy then I decide which BT direction I end up going.


----------



## cleg

My video about Final ZE3000. They don't have a separate thread, so this one is most appropriate  



In short — interesting sound tuning and fit is better than it seems by photos (at least to my ears)


----------



## Caipirina

nekonhime said:


> Do you mind if I ask your opinion about the sound quality, fit, connection of the earbuds?


Will let you know if i ever get them to work properly ... so far only ever getting one or the other side to play does not help with evaluating them


----------



## Ceeluh7

dmphile said:


> I finally found the sound signature I wanted. These are incredible when hooked up to the FiiO UTWS5.
> 
> I went from the OH10/FH3 > FH9 and no regrets so far. Such a fun and immersive sonic profile with solid bass extension. Pure bliss.


Nice... That's Def a step up man... Good for you


----------



## Ceeluh7

Phaethon said:


> +100.   This is where I’ve landed at the moment as well. Kinda OH10 -> FH7 -> FH9. Everything seems just the way it should be on the FH9s. Huge stage, details all through the frequencies, and a just plain fun tuning. It’s an awesome set and I’m doing it less-wire using the iFi go Blu, which is awesome as well! The go Blu has a rock-solid connection, a few sound effect settings, and a volume knob(!). iPhone stays in my coat pocket, go Blu in my shirt pocket and my movement is no longer in danger from the cord. I’ve pretty much given up on ear-hook adapters due to fatigue and pain from ear chafing by the hooks.
> 
> @erockg  - in your picture above am I seeing the Monarch MK2 as well as the Clairvoyant? If so, color me jealous. I think you bought the pair of MK2s I had in my shopping cart while I dithered!


Ifi go blu is a beast.... Isn't it awesome man. FH9 and the go blu is quite a rock solid set-up


----------



## tiagopinto

Ceeluh7 said:


> My wife always loves to ask... "Are you texting your Audio Nerds".... "Yes Babe"... Lol. She normally walks away calling me a dork... Which is justified, I prob am quite a dork



When it comes to this subject, I’m known amongst most of my friends as the audio nerd. Most of them know about the vinyl setup and the headphones and the DJ controller and all the stuff we here know all too well. I never feel like a dork. Most of them come to me for advice. Many times they say I wanna make them spend too much... you probably know the drill. My first questions always are “what’s your goal?” and “what’s your budget?” The internet is flooded with biased reviews and nowadays it’s more than easy for an unknowledgeable person to get lost and, ultimately, make the wrong choice for them. That’s what I observe when scoping some conversations at retail. Most people are fooled each and every day. Oh well, end rant. 

Yes, my wife now knows what a DAC is. But she still thinks I’m nuts...


----------



## dmphile (Feb 9, 2022)

Phaethon said:


> +100.   This is where I’ve landed at the moment as well. Kinda OH10 -> FH7 -> FH9. Everything seems just the way it should be on the FH9s. Huge stage, details all through the frequencies, and a just plain fun tuning. It’s an awesome set and I’m doing it less-wire using the iFi go Blu, which is awesome as well! The go Blu has a rock-solid connection, a few sound effect settings, and a volume knob(!). iPhone stays in my coat pocket, go Blu in my shirt pocket and my movement is no longer in danger from the cord. I’ve pretty much given up on ear-hook adapters due to fatigue and pain from ear chafing by the hooks.
> 
> @erockg  - in your picture above am I seeing the Monarch MK2 as well as the Clairvoyant? If so, color me jealous. I think you bought the pair of MK2s I had in my shopping cart while I dithered!


Agree! It's very smooth and VERY comfortable for my ears. Big stage and very impressive and precise imaging. Different than the OH10 stage and imaging. Not sure why but the OH10 staging sometimes felt alittle artificial and messed with my head and almost disorienting at times but not with the FH9s. As you said, it just gets the entire frequency range staging and imaging just right. FiiO really did a great job on tuning this set with a little extra oomph on the bass which gives it that full body, dynamic and immersive feeling, which I love. Thankfully, the wireless adapters don't cause me any discomfort and the FH9's are equally comfortable for my ears. Will be settling on these for some time but as we all know, the itch always wins so this will be my temp end game. Lol 🤣

@Phaethon did you get the titanium or black colour?


----------



## Ceeluh7

tiagopinto said:


> When it comes to this subject, I’m known amongst most of my friends as the audio nerd. Most of them know about the vinyl setup and the headphones and the DJ controller and all the stuff we here know all too well. I never feel like a dork. Most of them come to me for advice. Many times they say I wanna make them spend too much... you probably know the drill. My first questions always are “what’s your goal?” and “what’s your budget?” The internet is flooded with biased reviews and nowadays it’s more than easy for an unknowledgeable person to get lost and, ultimately, make the wrong choice for them. That’s what I observe when scoping some conversations at retail. Most people are fooled each and every day. Oh well, end rant.
> 
> Yes, my wife now knows what a DAC is. But she still thinks I’m nuts...


That's a good rant man... I agree. 100%. You try to steer folks in a good direction without being too overly biased in your approach. Every group I wander around there is multitudes of people who are just getting into the hobby and I enjoy helping them out if I can. "What is your goal" and "What is your budget" is the two best questions to start with... Agreed. That was a good post man.


----------



## tiagopinto (Feb 9, 2022)

Ceeluh7 said:


> That's a good rant man... I agree. 100%. You try to steer folks in a good direction without being too overly biased in your approach. Every group I wander around there is multitudes of people who are just getting into the hobby and I enjoy helping them out if I can. "What is your goal" and "What is your budget" is the two best questions to start with... Agreed. That was a good post man.



Thanks bro!

I honestly LOVE to help. I have five hobbies where I feel very comfortable giving advice to. This broad sound thing which passionately engulfs us, bodyboarding, scuba diving, mountain biking and sneaker addiction. On all five the two seminal questions are the same. The answers are many times the same “I wanna have it all” (until they know how much quality costs) and “I wanna spend as little as possible” (this is when I tell them they’re not gonna make it and they must compromise).

I must add we’re talking about Portugal here, where the purchasing power is not the same as in the US for example. For Bluetooth buds I own the CA MT (only, although I’ve tried many others). Am I happy? I compromised. Would I want the Fokus Pro, or the EQ or the TW2 (to connect my Rai Solo)? Obviously! But unfortunately I can’t have them all (remember, five main and expensive hobbies with a crazy cool new e-bike on the way) so I come here also to feed my passion and listen to you all with big ears and try to make the possible compromises in order to have the best possible with the available budget.

I was away from here a while, and the last few days I’ve been sifting through the latest 200 or so pages... haven’t reached present date yet.

I’m EXTREMELY happy that @miserybeforethemusic is back as he’s been a great help and his inputs are always VERY valuable (where are you @samandhi ?) and I won’t mention any more names because I don’t want to forget anyone. But I read all of it. And I make my interpretations and my choices.

I still keep my opinion that if brands listened to this group, product development and acceptance would be leaps further improved. Some do lurk around, I trust. Most don’t. Most want to massively produce to massively sell. But the ones in the know are not at all there. All we want is aural pleasure.

Thanks for your inputs @Ceeluh7 and thanks to you all!


----------



## tiagopinto

Caipirina said:


> Damn you Forum! You made me buy another one!



These must be good too... oh well, haha.


----------



## tiagopinto

dweaver said:


> So it appears that my hearing is more clear in the morning and fatigued by the evening. Causing me to need a softer sound in the morning and then appreciate the added treble in the evening.



How well you’ve slept, what you eat, what you drink, time of day... mood... it all affects how you listen.


----------



## guitarizt

Ceeluh7 said:


> Ifi go blu is a beast.... Isn't it awesome man. FH9 and the go blu is quite a rock solid set-up


That's pretty much the best for $200 in their line, even for their bigger stuff? I was looking at their bigger units, but they all seem to be non-usb.


----------



## tiagopinto

Asoares99 said:


> Hello, I am looking to add another tws to my large collection and considering Noble Fokus or B&O EQ. I listen mostly to heavy and progressive metal and like detail on the music, has anyone compared both that can give me a help understanding which one can be a better option? Thanks



Hi, here in Portugal where would you buy the Fokus Pro from? Cheers. Obrigado.


----------



## Ceeluh7

guitarizt said:


> That's pretty much the best for $200 in their line, even for their bigger stuff? I was looking at their bigger units, but they all seem to be non-usb.


I personally think it's the best bt "dongle" type out there. The Qudelix gives it a big big run for its money being $100 less. I would prob rec the Qudelix first just because of that. Plus the Qudelix has an app that is the best app I've ever seen on anything... Period. Of course you were referring to ifi products... Sorry man. I guess it depends what you are after bro. The hip dac and hip dac V2 are both great but they are enormous to lug around. They have great sound quality for a low price unit.


----------



## erockg

dmphile said:


> I finally found the sound signature I wanted. These are incredible when hooked up to the FiiO UTWS5.
> 
> I went from the OH10/FH3 > FH9 and no regrets so far. Such a fun and immersive sonic profile with solid bass extension. Pure bliss.


I started at FH9 and ended on Monarch MK2 with the UTWS5.  If you think the FH9s are good, whew, the MK2s are


Phaethon said:


> +100.   This is where I’ve landed at the moment as well. Kinda OH10 -> FH7 -> FH9. Everything seems just the way it should be on the FH9s. Huge stage, details all through the frequencies, and a just plain fun tuning. It’s an awesome set and I’m doing it less-wire using the iFi go Blu, which is awesome as well! The go Blu has a rock-solid connection, a few sound effect settings, and a volume knob(!). iPhone stays in my coat pocket, go Blu in my shirt pocket and my movement is no longer in danger from the cord. I’ve pretty much given up on ear-hook adapters due to fatigue and pain from ear chafing by the hooks.
> 
> @erockg  - in your picture above am I seeing the Monarch MK2 as well as the Clairvoyant? If so, color me jealous. I think you bought the pair of MK2s I had in my shopping cart while I dithered!


Ha ha! I did. And I have to say, they're what everyone says they are.  I'm loving both, but leaning towards selling the C to offset that crazy cost.  The MK2 are definitely the best I've heard so far.  They're euphoric attached to the UTWS5... ambient mode is just sick.


----------



## dmphile

erockg said:


> I started at FH9 and ended on Monarch MK2 with the UTWS5.  If you think the FH9s are good, whew, the MK2s are
> 
> Ha ha! I did. And I have to say, they're what everyone says they are.  I'm loving both, but leaning towards selling the C to offset that crazy cost.  The MK2 are definitely the best I've heard so far.  They're euphoric attached to the UTWS5... ambient mode is just sick.


The MK2 are definitely in a price bracket beyond what I'm willing to pay at the moment but who knows, maybe lightning could strike and I put some extra pennies in the jar to give it a whirl in the future if I feel like emptying the wallet lol.


----------



## nekonhime

Have anyone try this earbuds? I just saw the review from crinacle and decide to give them a chance.


----------



## TK33

nekonhime said:


> Have anyone try this earbuds? I just saw the review from crinacle and decide to give them a chance.


I have not personally so can't give you any impressions but if you use the search feature at the top of the page and search "N400" you will see there were many posts about them.


----------



## Phaethon

@dmphile  I got the black. Looks awesome. You?


----------



## erockg

dmphile said:


> The MK2 are definitely in a price bracket beyond what I'm willing to pay at the moment but who knows, maybe lightning could strike and I put some extra pennies in the jar to give it a whirl in the future if I feel like emptying the wallet lol.


I thought the same until I got rid of all the ones I didn't need.  Made up for it.  You know, we all buy ten of the cheap guys that make up for the one big boy.  Just my random opinion in my world here.  Right now, I'm trying to decide if I should keep the Kato.  Kato does a few things really well, but then I put on the MK2 and hear all the things that the Kato DOESN'T do.  There is just no contest.  Don't get me wrong, love the Kato, but it's just going to collect dust.  Sad.


----------



## erockg

nekonhime said:


> Have anyone try this earbuds? I just saw the review from crinacle and decide to give them a chance.


For that price.  Get them.  The sound is better than many buds four times that price IMO.


----------



## nekonhime

erockg said:


> For that price.  Get them.  The sound is better than many buds four times that price IMO.


Better than mw08, T5 II anc and EQ? Like for real?


----------



## erockg

nekonhime said:


> Better than mw08, T5 II anc and EQ? Like for real?


For $47.99, absolutely.  I do have a very special place in my heart for the EQ.  If money is no object, the EQ.  I like the others, but I had a horrible experience with the mic on the MW08 and I always thought the ANC on the T5II was non-existent.  So, if you don't need another pair, pass on the AKG, but if you want a sick deal on buds that will surprise you, then get them.  I saw C's review too, and I completely agree with him about these.  Some folks have issues with the swipe, but it's just a learning curve and I never had issues.  Also, sometimes the buds don't sit right in the case, but again, easy to make sure when you drop them in.  Also, the buds go in the case backwards.  R on the L and L on the right.  Odd.  But all the above said, they are an absolute STEAL for $47.99.  Great for family gifts too


----------



## nekonhime

erockg said:


> For $47.99, absolutely.  I do have a very special place in my heart for the EQ.  If money is no object, the EQ.  I like the others, but I had a horrible experience with the mic on the MW08 and I always thought the ANC on the T5II was non-existent.  So, if you don't need another pair, pass on the AKG, but if you want a sick deal on buds that will surprise you, then get them.  I saw C's review too, and I completely agree with him about these.  Some folks have issues with the swipe, but it's just a learning curve and I never had issues.  Also, sometimes the buds don't sit right in the case, but again, easy to make sure when you drop them in.  Also, the buds go in the case backwards.  R on the L and L on the right.  Odd.  But all the above said, they are an absolute STEAL for $47.99.  Great for family gifts too


Nah, my sister love her bose lol. I might sell my T5 and the mw08 cause I already have the 1000xm4 and EQ


----------



## erockg

nekonhime said:


> Nah, my sister love her bose lol. I might sell my T5 and the mw08 cause I already have the 1000xm4 and EQ


I can't ever get a good fit with Bose no matter how hard I try.  Plus, they love to make them _huge_.  Sold my T5II ANC and MW08 a while back.  Can't say I miss them, but they _are_ really nice.


----------



## nekonhime

erockg said:


> I can't ever get a good fit with Bose no matter how hard I try.  Plus, they love to make them _huge_.  Sold my T5II ANC and MW08 a while back.  Can't say I miss them, but they _are_ really nice.


Now you holding me back from selling them lol. I will take my time and decide if I want to sell them or not.


----------



## erockg

nekonhime said:


> Now you holding me back from selling them lol. I will take my time and decide if I want to sell them or not.


I mean, if you use them, keep them.  If others are overshadowing them, sell them while you can still get equity out of them.  That's my opinion though.  That's what I do.  Right now, my best sounding TWS are the Noble Fokus Pro.  They are just amazing.  No ANC though, but you get a great passive seal.  My other TWS are focused on being small, portable and good for calls.  My top for listening while WFH right now are the Monarch MK2s with the UTWS5 adapters.  They are in right now and I can't stop using them at home.  But, I sold off all my other stuff to feed my addiction.  LOL.


----------



## nekonhime

erockg said:


> I mean, if you use them, keep them.  If others are overshadowing them, sell them while you can still get equity out of them.  That's my opinion though.  That's what I do.  Right now, my best sounding TWS are the Noble Fokus Pro.  They are just amazing.  No ANC though, but you get a great passive seal.  My other TWS are focused on being small, portable and good for calls.  My top for listening while WFH right now are the Monarch MK2s with the UTWS5 adapters.  They are in right now and I can't stop using them at home.  But, I sold off all my other stuff to feed my addiction.  LOL.


999$ for the MK2 like damn. 
I will buy the noble Fokus when they have the ANC version cause I have to live with a crazy btch lol (can't study without sealing my ears)


----------



## erockg

nekonhime said:


> 999$ for the MK2 like damn.
> I will buy the noble Fokus when they have the ANC version cause I have to live with a crazy btch lol (can't study without sealing my ears)


Right right, you're the one with the nutty roomie.  Gotcha.  

Yep, tough cost to swallow, but I figure I spend that much by owning 5 two hundred dollar TWS.  My one grip with the MK2 is that now I hear the flaws in some artists recordings!!!  I just spend 20 mins going back and forth with earbuds to see if it was a flaw in the MK2, but nope, it's that now I'm hearing a mistake.  Ugh!


----------



## nekonhime

erockg said:


> Right right, you're the one with the nutty roomie.  Gotcha.
> 
> Yep, tough cost to swallow, but I figure I spend that much by owning 5 two hundred dollar TWS.  My one grip with the MK2 is that now I hear the flaws in some artists recordings!!!  I just spend 20 mins going back and forth with earbuds to see if it was a flaw in the MK2, but nope, it's that now I'm hearing a mistake.  Ugh!


Having something too perfect and listen to the imperfections is a pain lol. That why I never go overhead to look for perfection but enjoy different sound.


----------



## erockg

nekonhime said:


> Having something too perfect and listen to the imperfections is a pain lol. That why I never go overhead to look for perfection but enjoy different sound.


I love it!  Different strokes for different folks


----------



## nekonhime

nekonhime said:


> erockg said:
> 
> 
> > I love it!  Different strokes for different folks
> ...


----------



## Aevum

btw, anyone knows if i can buy just one of the buds off a N400 ? i lost one on a plane.


----------



## erockg

Aevum said:


> btw, anyone knows if i can buy just one of the buds off a N400 ? i lost one on a plane.


Haven't seen them sold solo.  Email AKG/Harman.  Never know.


----------



## dmphile

Phaethon said:


> @dmphile  I got the black. Looks awesome. You?


Nice...I wanted black but they only had titanium in stock. The black looks so dope....I'm a little sad I wasn't able to get that colour :/


----------



## Asoares99

tiagopinto said:


> Hi, here in Portugal where would you buy the Fokus Pro from? Cheers. Obrigado.


Hi, I would have to buy directly from Noble, they ship quite fast


----------



## erockg

Showdown!


----------



## Ceeluh7

erockg said:


> Showdown!


Heard good things about the one plus buds pro. Keep passing them by.


----------



## VICosPhi (Feb 9, 2022)

I am getting the itch now to get the Monarch MK2 but I should know better 

I had tried Fiio FH7 which was really really good and tried Unique Melody MEST which was even better for mid-bass, but after doing A-B tests with Sennheiser MTW2 at the time, I could barely tell the difference between the TOTL IEM vs TOTL TWS (especially with some EQing). Of course there was a difference but it was very very minimal at least to my ears when listening to streaming lossy MP3/AAC music tracks over LDAC.

The ANC and portability of TWS has kept me happy so far, with Beoplay H95 over ears for at home critical listening which sounds better than IEMs IMO. 

Also I am a big believer in ANC as it eliminates noise around you, making it easier to focus on music while protecting your ears as you'd listen in lower volumes.


----------



## erockg

Ceeluh7 said:


> Heard good things about the one plus buds pro. Keep passing them by.


So far they sound great, look great, but no volume controls.  They do have multi-point.  New firmware update enables it.


----------



## guitarizt

Ceeluh7 said:


> I personally think it's the best bt "dongle" type out there. The Qudelix gives it a big big run for its money being $100 less. I would prob rec the Qudelix first just because of that. Plus the Qudelix has an app that is the best app I've ever seen on anything... Period. Of course you were referring to ifi products... Sorry man. I guess it depends what you are after bro. The hip dac and hip dac V2 are both great but they are enormous to lug around. They have great sound quality for a low price unit.


Yeah I was wondering about desktop stuff, I forgot this was tws thread! lol! I like using my btr5 for mobile stuff so figured I could get something for pc only, but maybe it wouldn't even sound any better.


----------



## cresny

VICosPhi said:


> I am getting the itch now to get the Monarch MK2 but I should know better
> 
> I had tried Fiio FH7 which was really really good and tried Unique Melody MEST which was even better for mid-bass, but after doing A-B tests with Sennheiser MTW2 at the time, I could barely tell the difference between the TOTL IEM vs TOTL TWS (especially with some EQing). Of course there was a difference but it was very very minimal at least to my ears when listening to streaming lossy MP3/AAC music tracks over LDAC.
> 
> ...


I am of the same view. But around the house I'll be using the adapters with fancy IEMs because the volume I listen to is the same as with ANC and, at this point, dedicated TWS probably cannot compare. But mix and match probably won't work for a good ANC solution and without ANC compounded with fussiness, the adapters are a bit of a mess outside around the city. So I'll continue to be watching this space.


----------



## Ceeluh7 (Feb 9, 2022)

guitarizt said:


> Yeah I was wondering about desktop stuff, I forgot this was tws thread! lol! I like using my btr5 for mobile stuff so figured I could get something for pc only, but maybe it wouldn't even sound any better.


In almost every situation it will sound better. There are some silly nice desktop/semi portable options and one that has been getting a ton of buzz lately is the TRI tk2... Look it up... It blast out over 1000 mw @32 ohms. Great tonality and pretty. An awesome little dac/amp. It is kind of like the Hip Dacs but I think slightly larger and way way more powerful. I got rid of all my desktop stuff just because i am mobile too much and ended up rarely using it. But, I get the intrigue. They are nice and at some point I'll get another one but for now I just try to find the best portable options. I freaking love the Fiio Ka3... It just brings out the best in every iem for me. It isn't desktop in clean raw power but is powerful enough for anything I throw at it. Or the IFi Go blu/qudelixs of the world, love them. Lately I've been using the utws5 more than anything though as I've been doing alot of running around (long drives) lately. Fiio just absolutely knocked them out of the park. If you are thinking of doing a desktop type than there are some great review sites to point in the right direction and to answer your question... You will def get better SQ with a good desktop dac amp. They are very nice. Honestly there is just so many options out there.


----------



## Ceeluh7

cresny said:


> I am of the same view. But around the house I'll be using the adapters with fancy IEMs because the volume I listen to is the same as with ANC and, at this point, dedicated TWS probably cannot compare. But mix and match probably won't work for a good ANC solution and without ANC compounded with fussiness, the adapters are a bit of a mess outside around the city. So I'll continue to be watching this space.


I'm the same... Around the house or car rides or even doing some tasks outside is good with adapters but out and about I go with tws. I really enjoy tws and I am always searching for them which is why I ended up here.


----------



## Ceeluh7

erockg said:


> So far they sound great, look great, but no volume controls.  They do have multi-point.  New firmware update enables it.


So Gamesky praised the SQ on these.... Alot. I was just wondering if it was justified.


----------



## Caipirina

tiagopinto said:


> These must be good too... oh well, haha.


you missed the whole follow up story of me being somewhat underwhelmed by them, trying to return, but amazon marketplace seller did not even make return an option ... 
Since then I am kinda warming up to them ... not totally in love yet though


----------



## Caipirina

mt877 said:


> A few pics from the Walkman Blog of the upcoming Sony WF-L900. These are also supposed to have noise cancelling. I would say pretty innovative design.


Since they were NOT part of the Feb 9 announcement ... any educated guesses when they will be released? I'd love to have something the is similar to the Galaxy beans fit (which I still think is the case here!)


----------



## Phaethon

erockg said:


> I started at FH9 and ended on Monarch MK2 with the UTWS5.  If you think the FH9s are good, whew, the MK2s are
> 
> Ha ha! I did. And I have to say, they're what everyone says they are.  I'm loving both, but leaning towards selling the C to offset that crazy cost.  The MK2 are definitely the best I've heard so far.  They're euphoric attached to the UTWS5... ambient mode is just sick.


My new addition arrived today and most everything will have to be put for sale because I ain’t turning back. IFi go Blu + Campfire Audio Dorado 2020. $1k IEMs open box from headphones.com for 30% off. The tuning is to die for. The stage ends somewhere behind my head. The subs make my navel vibrate. Instruments are  a realistic distance from each other and I can hear instruments that I didn’t know were playing. Vocals are singing to me and me only. Cymbals snap without hissssssing. I hate to break up with my sizable collection, but they are dead to me.  Dorado has sung her siren’s song to me by the Campfire.

ok. It’s pretty freakin’ awesome. But these are the opposite of neutral. These are party IEMs


----------



## darveniza

erockg said:


> Showdown!


Like the One Plus and the Tone as an Android user


----------



## erockg

Ceeluh7 said:


> So Gamesky praised the SQ on these.... Alot. I was just wondering if it was justified.


Definitely.


----------



## erockg

darveniza said:


> Like the One Plus and the Tone as an Android user


I’m using an iPhone 13 Pro.  I’d say for sound:  OPP, LGT then APP.  All are great on calls.  Only the LGT has volume controls.  OPP and APP support multipoint.  APP Apple devices only.  All fine for ANC.  APP prob the best for ANC but not by a huge margin.  All three have wireless charging.  LGT still randomly gets the distortion in the left bud and I’ll have to pause music, take out the bud and put it back.  Doesn’t happen often.  Could be a ANC feedback issue. It’s annoying.


----------



## Ceeluh7

Phaethon said:


> My new addition arrived today and most everything will have to be put for sale because I ain’t turning back. IFi go Blu + Campfire Audio Dorado 2020. $1k IEMs open box from headphones.com for 30% off. The tuning is to die for. The stage ends somewhere behind my head. The subs make my navel vibrate. Instruments are  a realistic distance from each other and I can hear instruments that I didn’t know were playing. Vocals are singing to me and me only. Cymbals snap without hissssssing. I hate to break up with my sizable collection, but they are dead to me.  Dorado has sung her siren’s song to me by the Campfire.
> 
> ok. It’s pretty freakin’ awesome. But these are the opposite of neutral. These are party IEMs


I wouldn't turn back either... That's a bonkers pairing man... Don't hit X-Bass with the Dorados dude... It'll vibrate your shoes off.


----------



## Phaethon

Ceeluh7 said:


> I wouldn't turn back either... That's a bonkers pairing man... Don't hit X-Bass with the Dorados dude... It'll vibrate your shoes off.


@Ceeluh7 You are so right man. Soon as I get to work, I’m swapping the go Blu for the Ibasso DX300 that is sitting in the desk drawer there. 

In order to keep the go Blus freedom of mobility, what’s your experience of a high res file downloaded from a music service—> DAP Bluetooth —> go Blu —> IEM (sonically speaking?). It looks to me like the music gets unwrapped and Bluetoothed by the DAP (where the music resides), unwrapped again by the go Blu DAC and then  on to the IEMs.

I guess my question for everyone’s ears is this - does that Bluetooth transfer degrade the sound in any ways that your ears can discern? I’m no audiophile and I know these ears don’t hear a lot of what reviewers focus on. I just like what I like.


----------



## helmutcheese

For the peep a few pages back looking for neckband:

24Bit Hi-Res QCC5125 Bluetooth 5.0 Headphone Upgrade Cable with LDAC, aptX Adaptive, aptX-HD AAC​
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/100...;23.71;-1;399@salePrice;GBP;search-mainSearch


----------



## Ceeluh7

Phaethon said:


> @Ceeluh7 You are so right man. Soon as I get to work, I’m swapping the go Blu for the Ibasso DX300 that is sitting in the desk drawer there.
> 
> In order to keep the go Blus freedom of mobility, what’s your experience of a high res file downloaded from a music service—> DAP Bluetooth —> go Blu —> IEM (sonically speaking?). It looks to me like the music gets unwrapped and Bluetoothed by the DAP (where the music resides), unwrapped again by the go Blu DAC and then  on to the IEMs.
> 
> I guess my question for everyone’s ears is this - does that Bluetooth transfer degrade the sound in any ways that your ears can discern? I’m no audiophile and I know these ears don’t hear a lot of what reviewers focus on. I just like what I like.


That's a good question. I think a wired connection is still the best. However, it is very very hard to discern the difference when speaking of a device like the Go Blu. I should also add that I truthfully have a very hard time spotting a difference and also I would say that the go blu has sounded much better than some daps I've owned as well as some other devices. It all comes down to what makes you happy. I don't think you are missing much of anything between a dap and the go blu. Unless of course you have a really nice DAP/dac/amp that simply has better internals... In that case... Ya there's a difference.


----------



## Phaethon

Ceeluh7 said:


> That's a good question. I think a wired connection is still the best. However, it is very very hard to discern the difference when speaking of a device like the Go Blu. I should also add that I truthfully have a very hard time spotting a difference and also I would say that the go blu has sounded much better than some daps I've owned as well as some other devices. It all comes down to what makes you happy. I don't think you are missing much of anything between a dap and the go blu. Unless of course you have a really nice DAP/dac/amp that simply has better internals... In that case... Ya there's a difference.


Yah - my DC300 probably puts out a better sound. I did want to echo your endorsement of the go Blu - the sound is superior to my other Bluetooth DAC/amps and the buttons and controls are understandable. Love the Qudelix app but the buttons are too unintuitive and require looking closely to press the correct end of the correct button. On the go implies quick and easy use. The go Blu sounds great, has a rock solid connection and is quick and easy to use


----------



## Ceeluh7

Phaethon said:


> Yah - my DC300 probably puts out a better sound. I did want to echo your endorsement of the go Blu - the sound is superior to my other Bluetooth DAC/amps and the buttons and controls are understandable. Love the Qudelix app but the buttons are too unintuitive and require looking closely to press the correct end of the correct button. On the go implies quick and easy use. The go Blu sounds great, has a rock solid connection and is quick and easy to use


Agree with all of that... Except with time... Much time... I did get used to the Qudelix buttons. So long as I find the clip first, then I got the buttons down. But ya, go blu is just better. Yes, the DX300 will most certainly put out better sound with better internals altogether. For on the go listening though, I don't think there is much better wireless sound then the IFi GO Blu.


----------



## jant71

Spent some more time with the Budget Aviot and did all sorts of things with them. Quite a nice set that does well for it's price.






The Pros:
- Sound quality.
- Connection and stability.
- Most tips fit in the case.
- Solid app.
- value and color choices.

The Cons
- Buttons harder to press so the "pinch" method is better.
- Not an English model if that makes any difference. App does have English, Japanese, and Chinese languages as far as I know. Manual and buds voice are in Japanese.

Annnd the biggest quirk. They do a combo of entering ambient and pausing and then exiting and auto playing again but while you are in ambient these buds lose play/pause control till you exit ambient. You can skip tracks but if you single press while ambient is on nothing happens. You have to use your device or remember to hold left instead of trying to single press. You can start ambient from pause or while playing and it will turn on ambient and do the opposite so you can have ambient and start playing but if you pause it on the buds it will shut the ambient. Really designed for the ambient to only be for when you want to stop playback to hear and talk.


----------



## jant71

Saw these are in stock now... https://www.amazon.com/Monster-True...jbGlja1JlZGlyZWN0JmRvTm90TG9nQ2xpY2s9dHJ1ZQ==


----------



## LordToneeus

Anyone interested in the blue SE215's that came with my Aonic TW2 adapters?  I'll even throw in all the tips and ship for $50 total.  I'll post in Classifieds here in a bit.  Just got them two days ago.


----------



## Branflakes

Left bud of my Galaxy Buds Pro went for a washing cycle and it's still working. It truly is waterproof.


----------



## Ceeluh7

Branflakes said:


> Left bud of my Galaxy Buds Pro went for a washing cycle and it's still working. It truly is waterproof.


Wow....i didn't know they were fully waterproof... Cool now I know how best to fully clean my GBP. 😉


----------



## mt877

mt877 said:


> A few pics from the Walkman Blog of the upcoming Sony WF-L900. These are also supposed to have noise cancelling. I would say pretty innovative design.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


The Walkman Blog doesn't have a release date, but they did update their blog post that there is no noise cancelling:

*Update:  *

The Canadian certification was wrong, there is no noise cancellation, not even passive like WF-C500. The FCC description is "Wireless Stereo Headset". I knew NC would be rather hard to implement on this I mentioned it even below, a large hole in the headset would not seal off the ear that well and let outside noise in.




The headset comes with active noise cancellation but I am not sure if it is dual mics like on the WF-1000XM4 or a single feed-forward mic. If there are 2 NC microphones, then the feed-back mic is either located near the smaller outer holes or in the inner longer holes. The feed-forward mic looks like it would be located around the dark line that surrounds the silver trim. If there is only one NC microphone, then there will be no feed-back mic and only a driver from the inner holes. Although I wonder how the NC works if the hole in the middle allows sound through, not isolating the sound.


----------



## samandhi

tiagopinto said:


> ’m EXTREMELY happy that @miserybeforethemusic is back as he’s been a great help and his inputs are always VERY valuable (where are you @samandhi ?) and I won’t mention any more names because I don’t want to forget anyone. But I read all of it. And I make my interpretations and my choices.


I'm still here. I just don't have much to say on this thread as I am still using the (what seems like) old school equipment.. Plus, I don't want to get off topic too much, though I do like to read this thread still. LOL

I have been getting more into IEMs and earbuds atm. Still awaiting that killer TWS to replace my Nuarl, Hifiman, and CA devices.... Glad you are back!


----------



## darveniza

Arrived on Monday and have become my default for Teams, Microsoft and Phone calls. Mic do a great job a indoor/outdoor are pretty compact and slim compared with the WXM2 Sony Neckband or Audio Technica 400 Neckband. My wife tells me that the others look like I have an IUD hanging, while these just look like an accessory ,nerdy but not as horrible as the other ones.

Tuning, is very good I have used Beyerdynamic but they feel somewhere between AKG and B&O

Controls are complete and easy to access in one place

Weight wise , you will not notice them

App is the MY app that helps with sound profile creation, FW updates and controls guide. Equalizer 6 presets work well

They have a sidetone setting that really helps modulate your voice on calls when you have both earpieces in

No ANC, but passive isolation is pretty good with their tips

Overall , I would recommend them if you are looking for a Neckband


----------



## jant71

mt877 said:


> The Walkman Blog doesn't have a release date, but they did update their blog post that there is no noise cancelling:
> 
> *Update:  *
> 
> ...


I was thinking that. Certainly thought this pic was flaky cause everything can't be a mic lol! 





Looks like 5 more days again...


----------



## mt877 (Feb 10, 2022)

jant71 said:


> I was thinking that. Certainly thought this pic was flaky cause everything can't be a mic lol!
> 
> 
> 
> Looks like 5 more days again...



You nailed what that reveal video is about. I just went to the YT page and it's funny reading the comments people are leaving.
... new camera?
... new PSP 3?
... new speakers?

Edit:

(Fictional) So the story goes that a Sony engineer went home and emptied the change from his pocket. When he looked down at the table this is what he saw. Then he had that eureka moment...


----------



## chinmie

Branflakes said:


> Left bud of my Galaxy Buds Pro went for a washing cycle and it's still working. It truly is waterproof.



but now you have one set of half-clean TWS.. that's a bit of a conundrum... should you wash the other one to even out the cleanness?


----------



## dmphile

Phaethon said:


> My new addition arrived today and most everything will have to be put for sale because I ain’t turning back. IFi go Blu + Campfire Audio Dorado 2020. $1k IEMs open box from headphones.com for 30% off. The tuning is to die for. The stage ends somewhere behind my head. The subs make my navel vibrate. Instruments are  a realistic distance from each other and I can hear instruments that I didn’t know were playing. Vocals are singing to me and me only. Cymbals snap without hissssssing. I hate to break up with my sizable collection, but they are dead to me.  Dorado has sung her siren’s song to me by the Campfire.
> 
> ok. It’s pretty freakin’ awesome. But these are the opposite of neutral. These are party IEMs


How do they compare with the FH9?


----------



## cattboy (Feb 11, 2022)

waxler said:


> We have to wait for the new LC3 codec which will hopefully be capable of CD quality audio in optimal conditions. We'll see.


I lurk these forums specifically for the release of TWS with LC3 or LC3Plus codec support.

Hopefully soon. ETA mid-end 2022.

Sonos rumored to have headphones upcoming with LC3 support.


I love my Epos GTW 270, but the battery life sucks and audio quality is abysmal when using low latency mode... But gaming is flawless with no delay.  Just need to charge them... A lot


----------



## smith

Why ..why ….Amazon uk have the B&O EQ for £249…now. Really tempted but I have the Nobel Fukus and Gemini and love of them …convince me not to pull the trigger😊


----------



## ldo77

Just received my CX Sennheiser.
Pairing is not as easy as my other TWS on my  devices.
First thing, fit is not very easy.
After tip rolling, I choose JVC spiral dot.
It's balanced and quite well detailled. Nice voices.
Better than my soundpeats H1, in mid, and less in V sound.


----------



## Phaethon

dmphile said:


> How do they compare with the FH9?


I think I remember you had OH10 as well?
Lows - The FH9 has a vastly improved bass and sub bass presence over the OH10. Bass on the FH9 is not as artificial as on the OH10, in terms of quality or as pushed forward. The CAs have a lower bass shelf, more forceful subs, a more natural presence in the audio mix. 

Mids - I think the OH10s are very disappointing in its mids. They are more an inchoate wall of sound and pushed back somewhat. The FH9s solve the separation but the mids seem still recessed. This places the vocals less prominently although their quality is a mile above the OH10s. I think this is a real strong point for the CAs. The quality is very natural and it is placed in a more sensible forward position. 

Trebles - For me, this where the OH10s do a face plant. The highs have almost no openness, sparkle or definition to my ears. The FH9s were a revelation to me here, getting things just about right. The CAs up it a notch and everything is there and right-er. 

Separation - CAs are the clear champ. Every instrument is distinguishable even when they are seconding a powerful primary. I’m hearing bass lines that I’d perceived as synthesized being actually seconded by a plucked bass. Blew my mind. 

Soundstage - Once again the CAs. I have such a sense of 3d-ness that instruments seem to come from impossible places slightly behind my ears. 

Overall - OH10s are a lot of fun but with a lot of bass quantity. Everything else in the sound seems like an afterthought. FH9s sound like IEMs for grownups. Much more balance, quality, and quantity in the mids and highs. I really loved these. CA Dorado 2020s take all of the good qualities IEMs like the FH9 have and improves them. Then they add a little magical fun to the mix that I’m still struggling to describe. The FH9s raise things up to a level that my ears find superlative. The CAs are extra superlative and fun as well. 

Hope that helps


----------



## dmphile

Phaethon said:


> I think I remember you had OH10 as well?
> Lows - The FH9 has a vastly improved bass and sub bass presence over the OH10. Bass on the FH9 is not as artificial as on the OH10, in terms of quality or as pushed forward. The CAs have a lower bass shelf, more forceful subs, a more natural presence in the audio mix.
> 
> Mids - I think the OH10s are very disappointing in its mids. They are more an inchoate wall of sound and pushed back somewhat. The FH9s solve the separation but the mids seem still recessed. This places the vocals less prominently although their quality is a mile above the OH10s. I think this is a real strong point for the CAs. The quality is very natural and it is placed in a more sensible forward position.
> ...


Ya I had the OH10s and agree with what you're describing as well. 

Nice thanks for taking the time to explain. Looks like what you're describing is right up my alley. I'll enjoy the FH9s for now and give the CA Dorados a go if there's a decent sale on them in Canada. It's still $1120 CAD hah


----------



## Phaethon

dmphile said:


> Ya I had the OH10s and agree with what you're describing as well.
> 
> Nice thanks for taking the time to explain. Looks like what you're describing is right up my alley. I'll enjoy the FH9s for now and give the CA Dorados a go if there's a decent sale on them in Canada. It's still $1120 CAD hah


Headphones.com still has an open box like I got from them. It’s pristine and I have found no flaws. It is 34% off and they were shipped to me from Canada. Don’t know if that changes anything for you!
https://www.headphones.com/collections/campfire-audio/products/campfire-audio-dorado-2020


----------



## dmphile (Feb 11, 2022)

Phaethon said:


> Headphones.com still has an open box like I got from them. It’s pristine and I have found no flaws. It is 34% off and they were shipped to me from Canada. Don’t know if that changes anything for you!
> https://www.headphones.com/collections/campfire-audio/products/campfire-audio-dorado-2020


Oh DANG....My poor wallet. LOL

Are you selling off your FH9's as well and feel the CA's basically satisfy all your audio needs?


----------



## Caipirina

There’s yet another new Soundpeats set out there. The Mini Pro! A stemless ANC bud. Since I like the regular minis and was very impressed by sound & anc of the T2, heck, why not. With coupons I managed to bring price down to 48$


----------



## Phaethon

dmphile said:


> Oh DANG....My poor wallet. LOL
> 
> Are you selling off your FH9's as well and feel the CA's basically satisfy all your audio needs?


FH9s are within returns period, so back to Amazon they go. FH7s are being sold off as well as my Fokus Pros and my Moondrops (Starfields and Blessing2; the Katos can still be returned). So to answer your question - yeah!


----------



## Phaethon

I’ve also got the Timeless, Tri-Starsea, and Hana 2021 waiting for me at my friendly Amazon Hub. I’m just not going to pick them up, so they’ll go back to Amazon on Sunday; fully sealed and refunded. I’m done comparing for a while


----------



## dmphile

Phaethon said:


> I’ve also got the Timeless, Tri-Starsea, and Hana 2021 waiting for me at my friendly Amazon Hub. I’m just not going to pick them up, so they’ll go back to Amazon on Sunday; fully sealed and refunded. I’m done comparing for a while


I may have found another Canadian retailer that has a good return policy and 20% off the Dorado's at the moment. I may pull the trigger on this...

https://www.ssense.com/en-ca/everyt...ire-audio/black-dorado-2020-earphones/8236111


----------



## Ceeluh7

Caipirina said:


> There’s yet another new Soundpeats set out there. The Mini Pro! A stemless ANC bud. Since I like the regular minis and was very impressed by sound & anc of the T2, heck, why not. With coupons I managed to bring price down to 48$


These haven gotten stellar reviews lately man. I'm going to pick up a pair


----------



## tiagopinto

Ceeluh7 said:


> Dude..... I'm sorry bro.... I don't know why you kept getting lemons. I have owned mine since they came out and they have never had an issue. Sorry man, really not pouring salt in your wounds, lol, to me it is just crazy, I got in this group and hear all this talk with how bad the MT is.... Wth! I still use mine daily. Who knows maybe I got one of the only good sets... Idk



Me too. Love them.


----------



## tiagopinto

Asoares99 said:


> Hi, I would have to buy directly from Noble, they ship quite fast



From the US? What about taxes?


----------



## Ceeluh7

Fellas.... Not that any of you care but I just saw this set for the first time. The "AG tws09r".
It is another Final Audio tuned set similar to the AG tws04k but less expensive. It has a similar coating as the Final Ze3000. I read a bunch of reviews which I had to translate, which state that these are not bad at all. Anyways none of you asked but figured I'd pass this along. I have them coming tomorrow. Another budget set, here's to hoping it is a gem


----------



## jant71 (Feb 11, 2022)

Ceeluh7 said:


> Fellas.... Not that any of you care but I just saw this set for the first time. The "AG tws09r".
> It is another Final Audio tuned set similar to the AG tws04k but less expensive. It has a similar coating as the Final Ze3000. I read a bunch of reviews which I had to translate, which state that these are not bad at all. Anyways none of you asked but figured I'd pass this along. I have them coming tomorrow. Another budget set, here's to hoping it is a gem


I was looking to try a budget set and use my Amazon rewards points. That was one of the choices along with the Aviot but I couldn't go with that one. Good luck with them!


----------



## dweaver (Feb 11, 2022)

FH5 arrived today and hot damn they sound amazing! I played the sound track Interstellar and these are the first IEM or headphone I have owned that have achieved the same sub bass as my XBA-Z5.

They also have managed a very similar holographic sound stage and the level of detail is amazing without having the XBA-Z5 tonality issue.

I know these are not the best IEM available but they are perfect for my old ears. So glad I went this route versus the Technics A800 or another TWS. These fill a hole I have had ever since my XBA-Z5 died.

Currently using the default cable on my ES100. Have my Pono player, XBA-Z5 balanced cable and Fiio 2.5mm balanced cable with me and might give those a try. But will be cautious disconnecting the cables until the little connect helper gadget arrives. Don't want these to develop connection issues...

Someone either here are in one of the FH5 reviews mentioned listening  to  for 3D imaging and man that song is amazing on these.

Thinking I might go with the new Fiio TWS adapter, any thoughts on that by anyone?


----------



## Slowhand (Feb 11, 2022)

Got my AZ60's today.

MW07 GO -> Cambridge MT's -> Technics AZ60 has been my experience thus far.

Fair to say I've been well-behaved when it comes to TWS and upgradeitis (been distracted with home HiFi more though), but got convinced from the posts here to go for the AZ60's. Did not find them anywhere offering a return policy for earbuds so it wasn't a risk free purchase.

First impressions compared to MT's is that it beats it handily in all categories except SQ:

- The design is nicer, smaller and looks better in ear
- The fit is both more comfortable and secure, the MT's were not uncomfortable but security was questionable especially at the gym and lots of fiddling was required
- The case is nicer and smaller
- Touch controls are much better executed in comparison (but does not match M&D's button implementation)
- Impressed by the ANC in some simple testing so far, this is my first ANC bud but largely in line with my expectations going in. Trying it on the subway tomorrow
- Calls not tested yet but should be a clear improvement along with multipoint capability

SQ:

- There's just something about the MT's presentation that make them magically musical, for a lack of a better term. I'd like to see the topic of earphone amplification discussed more in the future, which is something Cambridge and B&W have been doing, with maybe little surprise considering the rest of their business portfolios
- The Technics are more than fine, I was a bit unsure for the first few songs but changing to one tip size larger made it better. Unscientifically I say they get within 90% of what the MT's deliver but with an otherwise much better all-around package as described above.

In the end this is for me a case of "what is the purpose of TWS" and that is not focused at-home listening, making the AZ60's in the end a better proposition than the MT's. Perhaps after a week I will forget what the MT's sound like 

For now the wait for the "almost perfect" TWS set (i.e. little to no compromises) continues.. but I think the AZ60's will do the job in keeping the upgradeitis in check.


----------



## Ceeluh7

jant71 said:


> I was looking to try a budget set and use my Amazon rewards points. That was one of the choices along with the Aviot but I couldn't go with that one. Good luck with them!


Ya I figured I'd give em a shot. Maybe I'll pick up the aviots as well.. I also ordered the Soundpeats mini pro. Ill just give away what I don't use but I'm a sucker for budget sets.


----------



## jant71

Ceeluh7 said:


> Ya I figured I'd give em a shot. Maybe I'll pick up the aviots as well.. I also ordered the Soundpeats mini pro. Ill just give away what I don't use but I'm a sucker for budget sets.


$39.99 right? I heard Gamesky say there was $20 off the Mini Pro.


----------



## Ceeluh7

Slowhand said:


> Got my AZ60's today.
> 
> MW07 GO -> Cambridge MT's -> Technics AZ60 has been my experience thus far.
> 
> ...


Could not agree more man. The MT's have that more organic tonality that not every set can duplicate. The melomania 1+ as well. Cambridge nails tonality. I still regularly listen to my MT's and 1+ and still enjoy them. As far as amplication goes... Yes Cambridge does add a separate amp which is half the battle in tws. When we see consistent dac/amps then the game will change a bit more but for now most tws use the SOC's dac within the chip and a very small minority of tws have separate amping. It Def helps....alot.


----------



## Ceeluh7

jant71 said:


> $39.99 right? I heard Gamesky say there was $20 off the Mini Pro.


Yessir. I think for the remainder of the week the sale is going on, at least that is what Gamesky said


----------



## Phaethon

Ceeluh7 said:


> Yessir. I think for the remainder of the week the sale is going on, at least that is what Gamesky said


Amazon has a $20 off coupon.


----------



## guitarizt

Blasphemy for this thread since it's wired, but my vido's finally came in. I love them. I forgot what forum was raving about them, but yeah they're right. Love the tonality. This but better is what I'd want in an iem. Or just make all tws sound like this.


----------



## samandhi

guitarizt said:


> Blasphemy for this thread since it's wired, but my vido's finally came in. I love them. I forgot what forum was raving about them, but yeah they're right. Love the tonality. This but better is what I'd want in an iem. Or just make all tws sound like this.


Maybe here: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/page-4006


----------



## samandhi

Ceeluh7 said:


> Could not agree more man. The MT's have that more organic tonality that not every set can duplicate. The melomania 1+ as well. Cambridge nails tonality. I still regularly listen to my MT's and 1+ and still enjoy them. As far as amplication goes... Yes Cambridge does add a separate amp which is half the battle in tws. When we see consistent dac/amps then the game will change a bit more but for now most tws use the SOC's dac within the chip and a very small minority of tws have separate amping. It Def helps....alot.


They have come a long way from where they started. Some were upset when they decided to change the tuning (like 3 times) with FW updates without telling anyone, but I for one, love where they ended up, and I don't think I will update again (just in case they screw them up). @miserybeforethemusic was a tester for their latest FW and had some feedback that was implemented in them, so good on him for that one. 

In the beginning they were purely basshead TWS for sure. Yeah, the bass was very satisfying, but the mids were so recessed, and the treble was very warm. I DID like them, but really only for the bass (though I am not a basshead). When they started tuning them to include the rest of the spectrum, I started enjoying them even more. 

I haven't listened to them much for a while now, but saw them mentioned on here, and decided to give them a listen while I write this and this whole album sounds terrific with these in:


----------



## darveniza

Ceeluh7 said:


> Yessir. I think for the remainder of the week the sale is going on, at least that is what Gamesky said


I could not find the pros at that price I found the original minis at that price.


----------



## jant71 (Feb 11, 2022)

darveniza said:


> I could not find the pros at that price I found the original minis at that price.


It doesn't show at the price but you have the "click this box to get $20 off" underneath. Amazon we are referring to.


----------



## Ceeluh7

guitarizt said:


> Blasphemy for this thread since it's wired, but my vido's finally came in. I love them. I forgot what forum was raving about them, but yeah they're right. Love the tonality. This but better is what I'd want in an iem. Or just make all tws sound like this.


They are nice... Give em some juice man.


----------



## Tjdx

Ceeluh7 said:


> Fellas.... Not that any of you care but I just saw this set for the first time. The "AG tws09r".
> It is another Final Audio tuned set similar to the AG tws04k but less expensive. It has a similar coating as the Final Ze3000. I read a bunch of reviews which I had to translate, which state that these are not bad at all. Anyways none of you asked but figured I'd pass this along. I have them coming tomorrow. Another budget set, here's to hoping it is a gem


Uuuuhhh they seem very nice constructed ! Let us know how they sound !! Im interested also in volume and how detailed they sound. 

Do they offer multi point ? Didnt find info on Amazon, also a few of the reviews on Amazon mention problems when charging.

I like the stone color... 

Im still making up my mind of which tws get need something whit multipoint (ANC is not vital but a bonus) and also want something with that sound decent.

I pull the trigger on the Nuarls N2 Pros but cancelled the order, also i was interested on the final audio ZE3000 and super interesed in the Audio Technica ATH-CKS50TW but they are no available in the states.


----------



## Ceeluh7

Tjdx said:


> Uuuuhhh they seem very nice constructed ! Let us know how they sound !! Im interested also in volume and how detailed they sound.
> 
> Do they offer multi point ? Didnt find info on Amazon, also a few of the reviews on Amazon mention problems when charging.
> 
> ...


I wouldn't think they have multi-point. I think these are likely bare bones music makers. I don't know that for sure however. You are right there isn't much told of these... At all. Ag doesn't seem to market outside of Japan really. I have only seen great reviews of the AG tws04k set from western reviewers and have wanted to get my hands on them for awhile, just not at $130. So this set seems like the next best thing from AG. So, I will see tomorrow. I like how small they are, the build looks good and I have always been a fan of Final Tuning. Of course these may be targeted and tuned completely different... Eh it's a $60 gamble that I can send back or giveaway if I don't like them. I will def give my thoughts here.


----------



## guitarizt

samandhi said:


> Maybe here: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/page-4006


I think it was a thread on head-fi for super cheap iems, or maybe some chifi thread, and fb had a group for the same thing. I need to find it again cause I'm addicted to all these, they're all good with their own flavors: tanya, lea, vido. Using the video's with BT on my btr5 so I'll salve the wireless system kind of.

Anyone pumped for the new air pod pros possibly being lossless? I haven't read if they're rumored to be at the march event. Would be nice though, would finally get me to bite on air pods. I didn't get the appeal before.


----------



## samandhi (Feb 11, 2022)

guitarizt said:


> I think it was a thread on head-fi for super cheap iems, or maybe some chifi thread, and fb had a group for the same thing. I need to find it again cause I'm addicted to all these, they're all good with their own flavors: tanya, lea, vido. Using the video's with BT on my btr5 so I'll salve the wireless system kind of.
> 
> Anyone pumped for the new air pod pros possibly being lossless? I haven't read if they're rumored to be at the march event. Would be nice though, would finally get me to bite on air pods. I didn't get the appeal before.


OIC. Well, now you have another resource in that thread too if you like. There is a huge database of buds with signature types, costs, release dates, etc...

I would love to try something like a CF01 or Fiio BT adapter on some really great earbuds. Sound like open back headphones, with the convenience of wireless. No need for "passthrough", though there will be no isolation (which is actually better for me in where I wear mine).

Sign me up please?! 

Edit: A lot of people on that thread I linked to gush a lot about the Yincrow X6 ($10 buds).


----------



## erockg

samandhi said:


> OIC. Well, now you have another resource in that thread too if you like. There is a huge database of buds with signature types, costs, release dates, etc...
> 
> I would love to try something like a CF01 or Fiio BT adapter on some really great earbuds. Sound like open back headphones, with the convenience of wireless. No need for "passthrough", though there will be no isolation (which is actually better for me in where I wear mine).
> 
> ...


I'm rockin' the UTWS5 with the Thieaudio Monarch MK2 and can't say enough good things.  Absolutely love the setup.  Fiio adapters have ambient mode and it does come in handy here.


----------



## samandhi

erockg said:


> I'm rockin' the UTWS5 with the Thieaudio Monarch MK2 and can't say enough good things.  Absolutely love the setup.  Fiio adapters have ambient mode and it does come in handy here.


Nice! Does it handle the bass well with the BT adapter (does it make it boomy and flabby on the Monarch)?


----------



## erockg

samandhi said:


> Nice! Does it handle the bass well with the BT adapter (does it make it boomy and flabby on the Monarch)?


Oddly enough, it's really tight with the Fiio.  I haven't tried them with cables, only bt adapters.  The AZ09 Pro makes them sound overly boomy.  I prefer the UTWS5s.  They're my go-to headphones for over a week now.  Pricy, but man, they are incredible.


----------



## samandhi

erockg said:


> Oddly enough, it's really tight with the Fiio.  I haven't tried them with cables, only bt adapters.  The AZ09 Pro makes them sound overly boomy.  I prefer the UTWS5s.  They're my go-to headphones for over a week now.  Pricy, but man, they are incredible.


Well the UTWS5 does pretty much rule (ATM) on power output so there IS that.. LOL

I will get some at some point. I can't wait to see what they can do with my IT-07 (as well as my buds). If the CF01 can drive the P1 (known to have a huge need for power) at lesser output, then I can only imagine that the UTWS5 will drive an "easy-to-drive" pair like the IT-07. I'm not too sure how well they would drive my Smabat ST10S (150ohm) buds though.


----------



## erockg

samandhi said:


> Well the UTWS5 does pretty much rule (ATM) on power output so there IS that.. LOL
> 
> I will get some at some point. I can't wait to see what they can do with my IT-07 (as well as my buds). If the CF01 can drive the P1 (known to have a huge need for power) at lesser output, then I can only imagine that the UTWS5 will drive an "easy-to-drive" pair like the IT-07. I'm not too sure how well they would drive my Smabat ST10 (150ohm) though.


Yeah, the amp is killer.  Definitely the best out right now.  Probably not my end game, but it sure is fun.  I use them every day on Zoom calls then music.  Pop on passthrough/transparency when my wife has a question, and we're good to go.  I've tried them on a bunch of IEMs and they really work well.  Power output is great.  Better than last gen and others.  I'm sure they'd have no trouble on what you listed above.  I installed the beta which gave me the transparency mode.  Now that I know it works well, I'll have to save up for something even higher!


----------



## samandhi

erockg said:


> Yeah, the amp is killer.  Definitely the best out right now.  Probably not my end game, but it sure is fun.  I use them every day on Zoom calls then music.  Pop on passthrough/transparency when my wife has a question, and we're good to go.  I've tried them on a bunch of IEMs and they really work well.  Power output is great.  Better than last gen and others.  I'm sure they'd have no trouble on what you listed above.  I installed the beta which gave me the transparency mode.  Now that I know it works well, I'll have to save up for something even higher!


Yeah, the passthrough feature might have sealed the deal for me. Just having no wires isn't really the deciding factor, but having passthrough on a set that I wouldn't normally be able to do that with sounds pretty attractive IMO. Do the MMCX connectors fit all but the customized connectors in your experience?


----------



## samandhi

For me, the iBasso IT-07 are end game in IEMs (suspect for a very long time). The Yincrow RW2000 are ALMOST there for earbuds. I am still waiting for the end game in TWS and closed back headphones. I think I am set with open back headphones though (and in the wireless department also). 

As for passthrough, CA really messed up that mode (for me) with the last FW update. They made them sound really good, but the passthrough mode became muddy and unclear.


----------



## Caipirina (Feb 12, 2022)

Darn, this is tempting @38.59$. All colors. I just think / fear I won’t use them much. 
As for ‘open’ soundstage sound those upcoming Sony BagelBuds will set a new standard. IMHO




While these are apparently new, I also looked at the used offerings and was confirmed that trying to sell any of my buds is kinda useless, unless it is a big name like Apple, Sony or Bose, the value drops drastically ... 

I recall paying 100€ for those Liberty 2 Pro (and then return to amazon because I just did not 'click' with them) ... now I could re-buy them for 28$ 



Or how about those swim-proof Sony with 4GB onboard storage for 38$, those have always tickled my fancy, but the reviews have been pretty terrible from the beginning, overall volume too low to be useful was the consensus ...


----------



## Caipirina

guitarizt said:


> Blasphemy for this thread since it's wired, but my vido's finally came in. I love them. I forgot what forum was raving about them, but yeah they're right. Love the tonality. This but better is what I'd want in an iem. Or just make all tws sound like this.


Reminds me of the time when I was buying too many of those  I think I still have some never opened back up Vidos


----------



## dweaver

I think I will get the UTWS5 but will have to wait a bit. It will cost as much as the AZ60 so maybe a month or 2 from now. 

Been tip flipping and tried one cable on the FH5. Tossing between the bass tips and the Sony hybrids. The hybrids tamed the treble a smidge but also tame the mids a bit so may go back to the bass tip. I also liked balanced but it was just a bit to much for me. Will cycle them again about a week after my ears and brain get more used to the IEM.

Super comfy. I actually got the original FH5 not the new black model. Glad actually as I think the longer stem might have been to long for me and I REALLY like the look of this IEM, the grey and gold looks really sharp. I also actually like the cable, very well made.


----------



## GrishaAudiododik




----------



## Ceeluh7

dweaver said:


> I think I will get the UTWS5 but will have to wait a bit. It will cost as much as the AZ60 so maybe a month or 2 from now.
> 
> Been tip flipping and tried one cable on the FH5. Tossing between the bass tips and the Sony hybrids. The hybrids tamed the treble a smidge but also tame the mids a bit so may go back to the bass tip. I also liked balanced but it was just a bit to much for me. Will cycle them again about a week after my ears and brain get more used to the IEM.
> 
> Super comfy. I actually got the original FH5 not the new black model. Glad actually as I think the longer stem might have been to long for me and I REALLY like the look of this IEM, the grey and gold looks really sharp. I also actually like the cable, very well made.


That is the same model I have... They are very nice looking... One of the better looking Sets in the price range.


----------



## guitarizt

samandhi said:


> OIC. Well, now you have another resource in that thread too if you like. There is a huge database of buds with signature types, costs, release dates, etc...
> 
> I would love to try something like a CF01 or Fiio BT adapter on some really great earbuds. Sound like open back headphones, with the convenience of wireless. No need for "passthrough", though there will be no isolation (which is actually better for me in where I wear mine).
> 
> ...


Thanks, just ordered them!


----------



## Tenlow

BigZ12 said:


> Ok. Regarding the Devialet Geminis...
> 
> It's not driver flex... Because there's no noise when chewing, running, jumping with any tips when noise cancellation is OFF.
> ANC Low has less "driver flex'ish" noise than with ANC High.
> ...


I know this is an old post but I have exactly the same issue with my new Gemini that I just bought. Left side "flexing", right side pretty much ok (a little bit maybe). The problem is the worst with ANC modes "high" or "plane" no matter what silicon tips I use. Funnily enough the problem almost vanishes entirely with foam tips - completely gone there. But with every single silicon tip it is really bad. 

Should I exchange them? What did you do? Is it supposed to be "normal" with the Geminis or are the faulty? 

Thank you so much in advance!


----------



## Ceeluh7

guitarizt said:


> Thanks, just ordered them!


The faaeal iris 2.0 are very nice and actually have bass impact. $9. Open sound and decently built. I ordered donut Foams for all my earbuds which to me seal the best yet don't muffle the sound as bad. Something to think about. Another good set for cheap is the VE Monk Plus


----------



## BigZ12 (Feb 12, 2022)

Tenlow said:


> I know this is an old post but I have exactly the same issue with my new Gemini that I just bought. Left side "flexing", right side pretty much ok (a little bit maybe). The problem is the worst with ANC modes "high" or "plane" no matter what silicon tips I use. Funnily enough the problem almost vanishes entirely with foam tips - completely gone there. But with every single silicon tip it is really bad.
> 
> Should I exchange them? What did you do? Is it supposed to be "normal" with the Geminis or are the faulty?
> 
> Thank you so much in advance!


You couldn't explained it better. Exactly my experience as well.
I exchanged them, but the new ones are the same.
Only on left. Foam helps a lot, but even with "low" ANC I experience the driver flex'ish noise (it's not driver flex, cause it's completely gone in "Neutral setting", so has to be a software issue with ANC/Transparency mode)
"High" and "Plane" are totally unusable for me, no matter what tips are in use


----------



## Tenlow

BigZ12 said:


> You couldn't explained it better. Exactly my experience as well.
> I exchanged them, but the new ones are the same.
> Only on left. Foam helps a lot, but even with "low" ANC I experience the driver flex'ish noise (it's not driver flex, cause it's completely gone in "Neutral setting", so has to be a software issue with ANC/Transparency mode)
> "High" and "Plane" is totally unusable for me, no matter what tips are in use


Thanks for your quick response! 

Yeah, this pretty much matches my experience. Too bad that exchanging them didn't work out for you. Makes me wonder whether I should even bother exchanging them then. 

Any other similar experiences from other owners of the Gemini? Thanks!


----------



## erockg

samandhi said:


> Yeah, the passthrough feature might have sealed the deal for me. Just having no wires isn't really the deciding factor, but having passthrough on a set that I wouldn't normally be able to do that with sounds pretty attractive IMO. Do the MMCX connectors fit all but the customized connectors in your experience?


Yes, I had the MMCX version and it worked with all standard MMCX but not on Sennheiser or Etymotic.  I wound up returning them and getting the 2 Pin version as most of my IEMs are 2 Pin.


----------



## samandhi

erockg said:


> Yes, I had the MMCX version and it worked with all standard MMCX but not on Sennheiser or Etymotic.  I wound up returning them and getting the 2 Pin version as most of my IEMs are 2 Pin.


Good to know. Thanks!

I actually don't own any 2 pin IEMs, but have 1 pair of earbuds that Are: Rose Technics Maria II.


----------



## Phaethon

Ceeluh7 said:


> The faaeal iris 2.0 are very nice and actually have bass impact. $9. Open sound and decently built. I ordered donut Foams for all my earbuds which to me seal the best yet don't muffle the sound as bad. Something to think about. Another good set for cheap is the VE Monk Plus


I love the faaeal’s. The sound is off the charts compared to the Moondrop Spaceships (meh). For bed though, the bullet-style Final e3000 (not cheap though, at $50) give me all night comfort  A Bluetooth DAC like the go Blu or Qudelix keeps me from getting tangled. And Apple Music has a Classical Chill playlist that keeps my slumber peaceful.


----------



## samandhi

Phaethon said:


> I love the faaeal’s. The sound is off the charts compared to the Moondrop Spaceships (meh). For bed though, the bullet-style Final e3000 (not cheap though, at $50) give me all night comfort  A Bluetooth DAC like the go Blu or Qudelix keeps me from getting tangled. And Apple Music has a Classical Chill playlist that keeps my slumber peaceful.


Oh, for sleep the Timeless (flat faceplate), and the P1 and Dunu DK2001 are the best ever IMHO. Although I can make do with others, these just feel like I'm not wearing IEMs at all. I haven't found any TWS that suite that purpose really well at all yet.


----------



## erockg

samandhi said:


> Oh, for sleep the Timeless (flat faceplate), and the P1 and Dunu DK2001 are the best ever IMHO. Although I can make do with others, these just feel like I'm not wearing IEMs at all. I haven't found any TWS that suite that purpose really well at all yet.


I use these multiple times during the week.  Books, nature sounds and sometimes just as earplugs:

1MORE ComfoBuds Z Wireless Sleep Earbuds, Soothing Sleep Sounds, Noise Blocking, Light and Comfortable, 5 Auto-Off Timers, Bluetooth Earbuds Designed Specially for Sleep https://www.amazon.com/dp/B099RRM6S...t_i_KACFGM9Y73YN66T2EJ35?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1


----------



## samandhi

erockg said:


> I use these multiple times during the week.  Books, nature sounds and sometimes just as earplugs:
> 
> 1MORE ComfoBuds Z Wireless Sleep Earbuds, Soothing Sleep Sounds, Noise Blocking, Light and Comfortable, 5 Auto-Off Timers, Bluetooth Earbuds Designed Specially for Sleep https://www.amazon.com/dp/B099RRM6S...t_i_KACFGM9Y73YN66T2EJ35?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1


Yes, but how's the sound for music?


----------



## erockg

samandhi said:


> Yes, but how's the sound for music?


Well, you have to choose what you want, IEM sound to sleep to, or incredible unobstructed fit that won’t bother you all night . For me, they’re serviceable, but I don’t use them primarily for music when trying to fall asleep. That said, I’ve heard worse!


----------



## samandhi

erockg said:


> Well, you have to choose what you want, IEM sound to sleep to, or incredible unobstructed fit that won’t bother you all night . For me, they’re serviceable, but I don’t use them primarily for music when trying to fall asleep. That said, I’ve heard worse!


Good to know! I don't think it is imperative to be wireless to sleep in for me but must be comfortable and not cause hot-spots if you are a side sleeper (like me), and sound really good for music. I don't listen to soothing sounds to fall asleep per se'. If some happens to come on from random play, it is ok, but generally I can fall asleep at a full metal concert (for instance).


----------



## erockg

samandhi said:


> Good to know! I don't think it is imperative to be wireless to sleep in for me but must be comfortable and not cause hot-spots if you are a side sleeper (like me), and sound really good for music. I don't listen to soothing sounds to fall asleep per se'. If some happens to come on from random play, it is ok, but generally I can fall asleep at a full metal concert (for instance).


I’ve had the Bose and Amazefit sleep buds and these are definitely my favorite.  More versatile.  That said, I did have a battery drain issue on one bud and 1More replaced them no questions asked.


----------



## samandhi

erockg said:


> I’ve had the Bose and Amazefit sleep buds and these are definitely my favorite.  More versatile.  That said, I did have a battery drain issue on one bud and 1More replaced them no questions asked.


I never figured out the case leech on the Bose (and Bose never addressed it either way in public), so I ended up giving them to my son, because he uses them every day, so no worries. 

Did replacing them change the battery drain issue?


----------



## GrishaAudiododik




----------



## dweaver

Used the FH5 when I went to bed last night and woke up 9 hours later with zero discomfort. I was even able to sleep on my side with a bit of effort. But sleep on my back primarily due to sleep apnea mask.


----------



## Juturna

Okay so y'all. If i'm getting a TW adapter, what is my best bet? Think I asked before but in a different matter. 
I'm thinking that the Fiio UTWS5 sounds nice but it's not very easily accessible, but I can get the UTWS3, the Shure TW2 (slightly more pricy than I would like though) and the KZ AZ09/AZ10 maaaaybe the AZ09 Pro. 

I'm probably not getting any IEM's just yet because I'm kinda broke as a joke, so i'm thinking of getting an adapter first and then bit by bit getting new IEM's, but I want the one that can drive the most IEM's without needing to be tampered with and so on. Feel like most of the IEM's I've looked at are MMCX but i'm not quite sure.


----------



## bladefd

dweaver said:


> Used the FH5 when I went to bed last night and woke up 9 hours later with zero discomfort. I was even able to sleep on my side with a bit of effort. But sleep on my back primarily due to sleep apnea mask.


Do you wear one of those full face mask? Try the nose ones like the Philips Dreamwear nasal pillow. Bit more expensive but it works well from what I hear.


----------



## Phaethon

erockg said:


> I'm rockin' the UTWS5 with the Thieaudio Monarch MK2 and can't say enough good things.  Absolutely love the setup.  Fiio adapters have ambient mode and it does come in handy here.


Hush yor mouth! You bought the last pair I’ve seen available! Except for linsoul. Any experience with ordering there?


----------



## dweaver (Feb 12, 2022)

bladefd said:


> Do you wear one of those full face mask? Try the nose ones like the Philips Dreamwear nasal pillow. Bit more expensive but it works well from what I hear.


I use a nasal pillow Resmed I think. It works great and I can sleep in my side with it but find its always tricky so end up sleeping on my back most of the time.


----------



## jant71 (Feb 12, 2022)

Not liking the Sony L900 specs too much so far. 5.5 hours battery life, 17 total. ~$199 it seems. Some odd, and to me pretty experimental, sensors that sense you tapping the front of your ear? I wear glasses as well and can imagine issues. What if you need to scratch your ear or do you turn your head and your hood taps against your ear lol! IP4 is weak and doubt it has anything great on the codec front but not much specified yet on that front. Not getting much for the price. I expect a pretty quick drop like the C500 when it dropped from $99 quite quick.


----------



## dweaver

Was searching for some good music that shows off sound stage as I was super impressed with the Beck Paper Tiger track and found this Spotify playlist compiled on a Reddit forum.


----------



## Ceeluh7

dweaver said:


> Used the FH5 when I went to bed last night and woke up 9 hours later with zero discomfort. I was even able to sleep on my side with a bit of effort. But sleep on my back primarily due to sleep apnea mask.


You sleep with them... Hmm... Never tried that. They do sit rather flattish.


----------



## Ceeluh7

Juturna said:


> Okay so y'all. If i'm getting a TW adapter, what is my best bet? Think I asked before but in a different matter.
> I'm thinking that the Fiio UTWS5 sounds nice but it's not very easily accessible, but I can get the UTWS3, the Shure TW2 (slightly more pricy than I would like though) and the KZ AZ09/AZ10 maaaaybe the AZ09 Pro.
> 
> I'm probably not getting any IEM's just yet because I'm kinda broke as a joke, so i'm thinking of getting an adapter first and then bit by bit getting new IEM's, but I want the one that can drive the most IEM's without needing to be tampered with and so on. Feel like most of the IEM's I've looked at are MMCX but i'm not quite sure.


If you are broke, you may just want to get something like the kz az09 pro and buy a solid budget set like the. Cca Cra, KZ edx pro, eh there's too many to list. Anyways that is a route and I can tell you that the az09 pro is very serviceable and even sounds nice. Granted it isn't the utws5 or 3 but they are very good with a nice fit. Just a suggestion. That being said that utws3 is absolutely a great adapter man if that is the route you go. Let me know if you need help choosing some budget iems that are very good


----------



## bladefd (Feb 12, 2022)

dweaver said:


> I use a nasal pillow Resmed I think. It works great and I can sleep in my side with it but find its always tricky so end up sleeping on my back most of the time.


The problem with the resmed nasal pillow is that the stem for pumping in the air stays in the front & hangs down by the mouth (if you have the swift fx or p10 - the two I have tried). Dreamwear stays out of the way altogether and to the back of the head. Look into it. I think you will be pleasantly surprised! It's great with tws while sleeping on both side and back.

Resmed makes one just like the Dreamwear, but I never tried it because it was too expensive unfortunately.

Anyways, I don't want to get too far off topic lol


----------



## dweaver

bladefd said:


> The problem with the resmed nasal pillow is that the stem for pumping in the air stays in the front & hangs down by the mouth (if you have the swift fx or p10 - the two I have tried). Dreamwear stays out of the way altogether and to the back of the head. Look into it. I think you will be pleasantly surprised! It's great with tws while sleeping on both side and back.
> 
> Resmed makes one just like the Dreamwear, but I never tried it because it was too expensive unfortunately.
> 
> Anyways, I don't want to get too far off topic lol


Have to admit I hate that aspect of this mask. Will look at switching. My mask is old as dirt so need a new one anyway.


----------



## Ceeluh7

AG tws09r 

Fellas I just received these tiny lil guys today. Talk about perfect sleep buds. These things are under flush. The case is the smallest case I've ever owned... Tiny. I would say that these most certainly have a Final Audio tuning. I mean they follow the curve to the tee. They are a warm sounding yet resolute pair of earbuds. The Bass has texture and character and seem to play the lead role with these. The Mids come thru fine as they are tuned to the Final signature. The Highs roll off farely quickly as these do lack some air up top... However this can easily be remedied. These do not get crazy loud but loud enough. Just to check I brought the EQ up about 6-9db across the board and these took that like champs without a hint of distortion. You can tell these are nicer drivers within hampered by the tws tech at the $60 price point. I imagine if the same drivers were to be included in a wired setup these have the potential to sound very nice. I promise these do not sound bad... At all. In fact if you eq up the higher frequencies these actually are pretty darn good sounding for $60 tws. As far as fit... Wow these are the most snug fit tws I've tried as they almost get lost in my ear, these are tiny. Take a look at the pics next to the Galaxy Buds Pro, these are Def smaller than those and don't stick out nearly as far. These lack features but are so stinking tiny and the case is the smallest case I've ever had. The case fits perfect in the small extra pocket of my jeans.... I love that. Anywhoo, there ya go... A very nice set of small buds that have awesome build quality and don't sound that bad and are perfect for sleep.


----------



## jant71 (Feb 12, 2022)

Ceeluh7 said:


> AG tws09r
> 
> Fellas I just received these tiny lil guys today. Talk about perfect sleep buds. These things are under flush. The case is the smallest case I've ever owned... Tiny. I would say that these most certainly have a Final Audio tuning. I mean they follow the curve to the tee. They are a warm sounding yet resolute pair of earbuds. The Bass has texture and character and seem to play the lead role with these. The Mids come thru fine as they are tuned to the Final signature. The Highs roll off farely quickly as these do lack some air up top... However this can easily be remedied. These do not get crazy loud but loud enough. Just to check I brought the EQ up about 6-9db across the board and these took that like champs without a hint of distortion. You can tell these are nicer drivers within hampered by the tws tech at the $60 price point. I imagine if the same drivers were to be included in a wired setup these have the potential to sound very nice. I promise these do not sound bad... At all. In fact if you eq up the higher frequencies these actually are pretty darn good sounding for $60 tws. As far as fit... Wow these are the most snug fit tws I've tried as they almost get lost in my ear, these are tiny. Take a look at the pics next to the Galaxy Buds Pro, these are Def smaller than those and don't stick out nearly as far. These lack features but are so stinking tiny and the case is the smallest case I've ever had. The case fits perfect in the small extra pocket of my jeans.... I love that. Anywhoo, there ya go... A very nice set of small buds that have awesome build quality and don't sound that bad and are perfect for sleep.


Think they will give you accidental presses like some complain about? I guess it might not matter if you turn your device off then taking them out can't accidental keep playing your podcast w/o your permission lol! I do a lot of TWS to car so hate that and some pairs have been as issue esp. if they fit more flush.


----------



## Ceeluh7

jant71 said:


> Think they will give you accidental presses like some complain about? I guess it might not matter if you turn your device off then taking them out can't accidental keep playing your podcast w/o your permission lol! I do a lot of TWS to car so hate that and some pairs have been as issue esp. if they fit more flush.


I think these may give you that issue. You are right with flush sitting tws. They may be a hair sensitive as well but I've managed to not have that problem yet. They aren't bad for a budget set...


----------



## jant71

Ceeluh7 said:


> I think these may give you that issue. You are right with flush sitting tws. They may be a hair sensitive as well but I've managed to not have that problem yet. They aren't bad for a budget set...



Another reason why they should have ambient. Worse for accidental presses if you have to take them out to talk to people. Obviously I didn't choose them for reasons like that.


----------



## Ceeluh7

jant71 said:


> Another reason why they should have ambient. Worse for accidental presses if you have to take them out to talk to people. Obviously I didn't choose them for reasons like that.


Very true.


----------



## erockg

samandhi said:


> I never figured out the case leech on the Bose (and Bose never addressed it either way in public), so I ended up giving them to my son, because he uses them every day, so no worries.
> 
> Did replacing them change the battery drain issue?


Yeah, Bose fixed all the issues with the second gen sleep buds, but they just didn't agree with my ears.  Yes, the new 1More Comfobuds Z they sent seem to work perfectly now.  I paid less than retail for them.  Google is my friend for coupon codes


----------



## erockg

Phaethon said:


> Hush yor mouth! You bought the last pair I’ve seen available! Except for linsoul. Any experience with ordering there?


Ha ha! I almost ordered them from Linsoul and lucked out with Headphones.com.  I was chatting with them and asking for dates of availability.  Right before I snagged a pair, the rep said they were expecting a shipment but maybe it was delayed due to Chinese New Year, but then the next day, boom!  They were in stock.  I'm always wary of ordering from overseas for fear that what if something goes wrong.  Especially for that kind of dough.  I'd do it for something cheaper.


----------



## samandhi

Ceeluh7 said:


> AG tws09r
> 
> Fellas I just received these tiny lil guys today. Talk about perfect sleep buds. These things are under flush. The case is the smallest case I've ever owned... Tiny. I would say that these most certainly have a Final Audio tuning. I mean they follow the curve to the tee. They are a warm sounding yet resolute pair of earbuds. The Bass has texture and character and seem to play the lead role with these. The Mids come thru fine as they are tuned to the Final signature. The Highs roll off farely quickly as these do lack some air up top... However this can easily be remedied. These do not get crazy loud but loud enough. Just to check I brought the EQ up about 6-9db across the board and these took that like champs without a hint of distortion. You can tell these are nicer drivers within hampered by the tws tech at the $60 price point. I imagine if the same drivers were to be included in a wired setup these have the potential to sound very nice. I promise these do not sound bad... At all. In fact if you eq up the higher frequencies these actually are pretty darn good sounding for $60 tws. As far as fit... Wow these are the most snug fit tws I've tried as they almost get lost in my ear, these are tiny. Take a look at the pics next to the Galaxy Buds Pro, these are Def smaller than those and don't stick out nearly as far. These lack features but are so stinking tiny and the case is the smallest case I've ever had. The case fits perfect in the small extra pocket of my jeans.... I love that. Anywhoo, there ya go... A very nice set of small buds that have awesome build quality and don't sound that bad and are perfect for sleep.


Those do indeed look very comfortable, though being that small, I am not sure I would be able to get a good seal. 

The MT (for instance) has a very short nozzle even though not all that small, and I had to tip roll a ton to get them to seal when simply opening/closing my mouth.


----------



## Ceeluh7

samandhi said:


> Those do indeed look very comfortable, though being that small, I am not sure I would be able to get a good seal.
> 
> The MT (for instance) has a very short nozzle even though not all that small, and I had to tip roll a ton to get them to seal when simply opening/closing my mouth.


I don't know... I get a fantastic seal. They go pretty deep and so it's easy to get a great seal. I agree the Mt are a bit more shallow and I needed to find tips that were a bit more firm but wider for the MT's... For this AG set I just use the included Final E tips


----------



## Tjdx

Ceeluh7 said:


> AG tws09r
> 
> Fellas I just received these tiny lil guys today. Talk about perfect sleep buds. These things are under flush. The case is the smallest case I've ever owned... Tiny. I would say that these most certainly have a Final Audio tuning. I mean they follow the curve to the tee. They are a warm sounding yet resolute pair of earbuds. The Bass has texture and character and seem to play the lead role with these. The Mids come thru fine as they are tuned to the Final signature. The Highs roll off farely quickly as these do lack some air up top... However this can easily be remedied. These do not get crazy loud but loud enough. Just to check I brought the EQ up about 6-9db across the board and these took that like champs without a hint of distortion. You can tell these are nicer drivers within hampered by the tws tech at the $60 price point. I imagine if the same drivers were to be included in a wired setup these have the potential to sound very nice. I promise these do not sound bad... At all. In fact if you eq up the higher frequencies these actually are pretty darn good sounding for $60 tws. As far as fit... Wow these are the most snug fit tws I've tried as they almost get lost in my ear, these are tiny. Take a look at the pics next to the Galaxy Buds Pro, these are Def smaller than those and don't stick out nearly as far. These lack features but are so stinking tiny and the case is the smallest case I've ever had. The case fits perfect in the small extra pocket of my jeans.... I love that. Anywhoo, there ya go... A very nice set of small buds that have awesome build quality and don't sound that bad and are perfect for sleep.


Thanks for the fast feedback on those ! Im still trying to figure it out, if I will go for a set or two, I need something for work but want something that I can use for music while at work (and not miss a call via teams) thats why multipoint would be great.

But those definitly are on my short list, maybe is there is a promo / coupon. I will just buy them.

My wife is still happy with the earfun free mini, I do like them too but I need a little bit of more volume ¿do you think the Ag are louder that the earfun?.


----------



## dmphile (Feb 12, 2022)

@Phaethon pulled the trigger on the Dorado 2020. Arriving next week...excited to compare them to the FH9s. These are by far the most expensive pair of IEMS I have ever purchased so my expectations are pretty high right now... Lol


----------



## Phaethon

dmphile said:


> @Phaethon pulled the trigger on the Dorado 2020. Arriving next week...excited to compare them to the FH9s. These are by far the most expensive pair of IEMS I have ever purchased so my expectations are pretty high right now... Lol


I hope you love them as much as I do! It seems that your sonic preferences are close to mine. I look forward to your thoughts on their tuning and dynamics. Have fun!


----------



## Ceeluh7

Tjdx said:


> Thanks for the fast feedback on those ! Im still trying to figure it out, if I will go for a set or two, I need something for work but want something that I can use for music while at work (and not miss a call via teams) thats why multipoint would be great.
> 
> But those definitly are on my short list, maybe is there is a promo / coupon. I will just buy them.
> 
> My wife is still happy with the earfun free mini, I do like them too but I need a little bit of more volume ¿do you think the Ag are louder that the earfun?.


Ya man, these don't have the features of other sets but I gotta say they've grown on me. I love how compact and well built they are. However you can Def get more for $60 if SQ and form factor aren't your deciding factors. I also purchased the Soundpeats mini pro and they will be here tomorrow and I know those have all the features, so I'm hoping the SQ will be great. I listened to some reviews on them and they were very positive. Anyways the AG buds just have a solid foundation in that I can really change the sound sig with these drivers and the sound is tight and dynamic, not cheap or bloated or tizzy. They did a good job and put all the money into SQ in a tiny form.


----------



## Tommy C (Feb 13, 2022)

dweaver said:


> I think I will get the UTWS5 but will have to wait a bit. It will cost as much as the AZ60 so maybe a month or 2 from now.
> 
> Been tip flipping and tried one cable on the FH5. Tossing between the bass tips and the Sony hybrids. The hybrids tamed the treble a smidge but also tame the mids a bit so may go back to the bass tip. I also liked balanced but it was just a bit to much for me. Will cycle them again about a week after my ears and brain get more used to the IEM.
> 
> Super comfy. I actually got the original FH5 not the new black model. Glad actually as I think the longer stem might have been to long for me and I REALLY like the look of this IEM, the grey and gold looks really sharp. I also actually like the cable, very well made.


You may also want to consider the Shure TW2 adapters. Spoke to a local store re the Fiio and they are not currently offering them because some customers were reporting issues with Bluetooth connecting while charging in the case like some reported here and FW update that wasn’t coming through for whatever reason. 
If it’s cheap enough I would say what the heck but if you want a more mature product that just works the  Shure is the one to get.


----------



## scubaphish

Tenlow said:


> I know this is an old post but I have exactly the same issue with my new Gemini that I just bought. Left side "flexing", right side pretty much ok (a little bit maybe). The problem is the worst with ANC modes "high" or "plane" no matter what silicon tips I use. Funnily enough the problem almost vanishes entirely with foam tips - completely gone there. But with every single silicon tip it is really bad.
> 
> Should I exchange them? What did you do? Is it supposed to be "normal" with the Geminis or are the faulty?
> 
> Thank you so much in advance!


Mine do the same thing. I keep anc and transparency on low to mitigate, but same thing here and I’ve had a couple of sets already. All did it.


----------



## Phaethon

Tommy C said:


> You may also want to consider the Shure TW2 adapters. Spoke to a local store re the Fiio and they are not currently offering them because some customers were reporting issues with Bluetooth connecting while charging in the case like some reported here and FW update that wasn’t coming through for whatever reason.
> If it’s cheap enough I would say what the heck but if you want a more mature product that just works the  Shure is the one to get.


I had those same problems on both the Fiio 2 pin and MMCX adapters. @Ceeluh7  is right that the sound and power are great but I found the problems too much for the price. I was wondering why they pretty much vanished after I returned mine. The only place I’ve found carrying them is Hifigo. I guess they may have bought them from Fiio in massive bulk quantity and deeply discounted, so the terms were non-returnable.


----------



## Phaethon

Tommy C said:


> You may also want to consider the Shure TW2 adapters. Spoke to a local store re the Fiio and they are not currently offering them because some customers were reporting issues with Bluetooth connecting while charging in the case like some reported here and FW update that wasn’t coming through for whatever reason.
> If it’s cheap enough I would say what the heck but if you want a more mature product that just works the  Shure is the one to get.


Oh yeah, add those tiny MMCX to 2pin adapters to the Shures and I’ve even been able to use the finicky Moondrops on them.


----------



## cleg

My video about Technics EAH-AZ60. In short: good modern TWS with ANC, LDAC and lots of tweakable features. Sound is also on the appropriate level. IMO — a good addition to "flagships" tier of True Wirless


----------



## jant71

More Philips T1 reviews... https://www.t3.com/us/reviews/philips-fidelio-t1-review

https://hifitrends.com/2022/02/06/p...audiophile-chops-acceptable-noise-cancelling/

$300 is on the high side but I guess there is inflation lol! Philips actually has done quite a few TWS models now. They still need to learn there is this thing called volume and we might just like to control it .


----------



## DigDub

First review of the Sony L900 is out.

https://www.lbtechreviews.com/test/headphones/sony-linkbuds-wf-l900

So it seems like its release is imminent.


----------



## nekonhime

DigDub said:


> First review of the Sony L900 is out.
> 
> https://www.lbtechreviews.com/test/headphones/sony-linkbuds-wf-l900
> 
> So it seems like its release is imminent.


Why Sony don't just use the Bluetooth 5.2 which will boost battery life lol?


----------



## jant71 (Feb 13, 2022)

nekonhime said:


> Why Sony don't just use the Bluetooth 5.2 which will boost battery life lol?


They got a nice bulk deal on Mediatek chips so they are using what they have left till they run out LOL!  Which means that spec in that review saying they have aptX is obviously not true. They don't use Qualcomm.

Keeps mentioning podcasts a lot.  Thinking these will be good for calls, podcasts, zoom, office settings provided they are not louder so you'd want isolation. Not sports though as with little bass they are not the kind that will motivate nor do they seem to have the right controls for a sporty set and the review mentions that they can fall out since the fin only really keeps them in. Not sure they are very stable for a serious run or stuff like that.


----------



## TK33

DigDub said:


> First review of the Sony L900 is out.
> 
> https://www.lbtechreviews.com/test/headphones/sony-linkbuds-wf-l900
> 
> So it seems like its release is imminent.


Seems like the Sony version of the Galaxy Buds Live.  Not really a new concept as that link suggests.  Still interesting to me since I do really like the Galaxy Buds Live for calls.  May keep one eye on this but wait to see what Samsung comes out with later this year.  I recall seeing rumors of a Galaxy Buds Live 2 a few months ago.


----------



## erockg

New 7hz coming: Linsoul 7HZ Eternal HiFi 14.5mm LCP Polymer Diaphragm Driver in Ear Earphone with CNC Aluminum Shell, Optical Glass Faceplate, Detachable MMCX Cable for Audiophiles Musician (3.5mm, Eternal) https://www.amazon.com/dp/B09RZRN4Y...t_i_EGFWFK87XGR5QCRJQCD8?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1


----------



## Ceeluh7

erockg said:


> New 7hz coming: Linsoul 7HZ Eternal HiFi 14.5mm LCP Polymer Diaphragm Driver in Ear Earphone with CNC Aluminum Shell, Optical Glass Faceplate, Detachable MMCX Cable for Audiophiles Musician (3.5mm, Eternal) https://www.amazon.com/dp/B09RZRN4Y...t_i_EGFWFK87XGR5QCRJQCD8?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1


Ya it looks good. There is a reviewer in a Facebook group who has it already... Waiting on what he has to say.


----------



## cresny

Phaethon said:


> I had those same problems on both the Fiio 2 pin and MMCX adapters. @Ceeluh7  is right that the sound and power are great but I found the problems too much for the price. I was wondering why they pretty much vanished after I returned mine. The only place I’ve found carrying them is Hifigo. I guess they may have bought them from Fiio in massive bulk quantity and deeply discounted, so the terms were non-returnable.


I was concerned about these reports and considered Shure before I went with a UTWS5. They've been stable and reliable for me (on a Pixel 6 Pro). Since I put the beta firmware on they have cut out a couple of times, requiring restart, but very minor in the scheme of things as I use them all the time. Battery life has been great all along. I'm finding the ambient mode works really well for me, too. I have the MMCX version, and using them with a straight two-pin adapter has the interesting effect of raising them slightly so they barely touch skin at all, very comfortable. There may be reasons for choosing Shure over these, but at least for me reliability is not one of them.


----------



## Ceeluh7

Phaethon said:


> I had those same problems on both the Fiio 2 pin and MMCX adapters. @Ceeluh7  is right that the sound and power are great but I found the problems too much for the price. I was wondering why they pretty much vanished after I returned mine. The only place I’ve found carrying them is Hifigo. I guess they may have bought them from Fiio in massive bulk quantity and deeply discounted, so the terms were non-returnable.


It is very hard to get your hands on the utws5. They are selling out immediately everywhere. Thankfully I got mine the day they came out. I will say that the Utws3 is not far off from the 5
..at all and is $40 cheaper and you will likely find both versions pretty easily.. At least in the States I can find them. The 5 is just wonderful to me but the 3 is right behind it...


----------



## samandhi

erockg said:


> New 7hz coming: Linsoul 7HZ Eternal HiFi 14.5mm LCP Polymer Diaphragm Driver in Ear Earphone with CNC Aluminum Shell, Optical Glass Faceplate, Detachable MMCX Cable for Audiophiles Musician (3.5mm, Eternal) https://www.amazon.com/dp/B09RZRN4Y...t_i_EGFWFK87XGR5QCRJQCD8?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1


Apparently you can already order it on Linsoul and Hifigo, but they aren't shipping yet.


----------



## dweaver

Tommy C said:


> You may also want to consider the Shure TW2 adapters. Spoke to a local store re the Fiio and they are not currently offering them because some customers were reporting issues with Bluetooth connecting while charging in the case like some reported here and FW update that wasn’t coming through for whatever reason.
> If it’s cheap enough I would say what the heck but if you want a more mature product that just works the  Shure is the one to get.



Does the Shure TW2 have an ambient feature? I am starting to think that would be important.

The TW2 is only $30 more than the Fiio  and you get the SE215 so I think price wise they are good choice. I spent some time looking at the shape and the FH5 and think they would work shape wise.

These FH5 are crazy efficient. On my Pono I am listing at 1/8 volume and sometimes lower. 

Starting to see a few minor cracks in their sound now that have been using them a few days. Mainly the width of the sound stage. But nothing too egregious.


----------



## Ceeluh7

dweaver said:


> Does the Shure TW2 have an ambient feature? I am starting to think that would be important.
> 
> The TW2 is only $30 more than the Fiio  and you get the SE215 so I think price wise they are good choice. I spent some time looking at the shape and the FH5 and think they would work shape wise.
> 
> ...


Ya the soundstage isn't the greatest. That's a fiio trend until the FH5S with its open back and even the new fd3/fd5 are a bit more open. Fh5 has great resolution and is very balanced but at $150-200 I'm afraid there are prob others that outdo them in soundstage. To get that psycho-Accoustic illusion you have to make sacrifices though. I would still like to check out the tw2 at some point, it is still the only adapters I've yet to check out. I will soon I think, as I really want to do a comparison review between all the adapters.


----------



## scubaphish

dweaver said:


> Does the Shure TW2 have an ambient feature? I am starting to think that would be important.
> 
> The TW2 is only $30 more than the Fiio  and you get the SE215 so I think price wise they are good choice. I spent some time looking at the shape and the FH5 and think they would work shape wise.
> 
> ...


The TW2 have a fantastic ambient implementation


----------



## Tjdx (Feb 13, 2022)

Ceeluh7 said:


> Ya man, these don't have the features of other sets but I gotta say they've grown on me. I love how compact and well built they are. However you can Def get more for $60 if SQ and form factor aren't your deciding factors. I also purchased the Soundpeats mini pro and they will be here tomorrow and I know those have all the features, so I'm hoping the SQ will be great. I listened to some reviews on them and they were very positive. Anyways the AG buds just have a solid foundation in that I can really change the sound sig with these drivers and the sound is tight and dynamic, not cheap or bloated or tizzy. They did a good job and put all the money into SQ in a tiny form.


The soundpeats mini pro are with a 20 usd off coupon so the price will be 39.99 instead of 59.99 thats seems pretty good...Im looking into reviews and at least on Amazon everyone lile them, I will research a little more and probably I will end with to pairs in the future or get the Fiio UTWS5 for the other iems.

I dont know why is so difficult to implement multi point I will guess the Qualcomm chip has that as a feature and they just need to implement, I havent look into specs of the 3040 just some general info but they dont mention anything regarding multi point or multi pairing.

Edit: Also the Fiil T1 lite seems interesting based on Scarbir review but I cant fin them over Amazon.


----------



## xSDMx

scubaphish said:


> The TW2 have a fantastic ambient implementation


I can second that the TW2 have a phenomenal ambient mode and have been bug free for me. If it wasn't for the lower power output, large charging case, and lack of Qi charging, the TW2 would, hands down, be the absolute best TWS adapter. For me, they are the absolute best option. But you have to weigh the features for yourself personally.


----------



## erockg

Picked up the Nothing Ear (1).  Better than I expected.  We shall see after a few days.  Here are a few pics for size comparison.


----------



## erockg

samandhi said:


> Apparently you can already order it on Linsoul and Hifigo, but they aren't shipping yet.


Yes, that’s where I saw it on Instagram.  Not avail for weeks


----------



## dweaver

xSDMx said:


> I can second that the TW2 have a phenomenal ambient mode and have been bug free for me. If it wasn't for the lower power output, large charging case, and lack of Qi charging, the TW2 would, hands down, be the absolute best TWS adapter. For me, they are the absolute best option. But you have to weigh the features for yourself personally.


Can the IEM be connected when charging in the case?


----------



## xSDMx

dweaver said:


> Can the IEM be connected when charging in the case?


Nope. Thankfully. As soon as the earhook docks into the case, it's lights out. You can use one or two earhooks, but both in and they go into charging mode without any issues.


----------



## dweaver

Sorry I man do I have to disconnect the IEM shell from the adapter to charge? They case doesn't seem designed to let me leave them connected.


----------



## xSDMx

dweaver said:


> Sorry I man do I have to disconnect the IEM shell from the adapter to charge? They case doesn't seem designed to let me leave them connected.


I misunderstood. You don't need to detach the IEMs from the earhooks, assuming they fit into the case. The case doesn't have to completely close to charge. The earhooks just need to make contact with the charging pins recessed into the case.


----------



## Phaethon

dweaver said:


> Does the Shure TW2 have an ambient feature? I am starting to think that would be important.
> 
> The TW2 is only $30 more than the Fiio  and you get the SE215 so I think price wise they are good choice. I spent some time looking at the shape and the FH5 and think they would work shape wise.
> 
> ...


The TW2s have great ambient and hands-down the best app with EQ. I’ve used the FH9s in them with no problem.


----------



## jant71 (Feb 14, 2022)

erockg said:


> Yes, that’s where I saw it on Instagram.  Not avail for weeks


Speaking of available, the Jabra Enhance Plus is coming on Feb. 25th. Not sure you are gonna get one though. $799. Couple hundred more than I was thinking it was gonna be. Though hearing aid quality components and sound are sure to be above the stuff we see in the consumer TWS.


----------



## Ceeluh7

Soundpeats Mini Pro (reg. $60, I paid $39 w/coupon) 

So these lil guys arent half bad... At all. They have a nice form factor that does not go deep into the ear canal but sits just outside similar to the Soundcore L3P. The included tips are okay but I did tip roll these for a better seal. Obviously that's subjective. The Ambient mode is about what you'd expect from a $60 tws and id say the ANC is pretty good as well. These block out lower frequency tones pretty good like we've come to expect from tws concerning anc. The touch controls are well done as these are not so sensitive that there is a risk for many accidental touches (at least I have not had any yet). The only gripe I have is the exclusion of back-track. I don't get it....why? Anyways, as far as SQ goes I can hear a Def V-shaped tuning but without a huge recession of the Mids. They did enhance the low end a bit without these being too boomy and they also added volume to the upper areas of the mix. The highs can get almost to the piercing side of things but rolls off right at that point for me. I like it. Yet the sub-bass and mid-bass give a good slam and rumble adding much needed warmth. That warmth extends into the Mids a bit which adds a bit of weight to male vocals which, I'd say, for a $60 set they sound okay. There is nothing amazing about this set other than there is a bunch of features which all land around average or above average considering the competition. The sound Quality is a bit better than i would expect as Soundpeats have been doing this for quite awhile and it shows. They are very musical and dynamic and replay music in any genre pretty good. These have a great form factor, at least for me. The are small and sit nicely in the ear. They aren't ugly with a pretty sharp design and the case is very small fitting perfectly in the extra small jeans pocket. These aren't giant killers but they are without a doubt well worth the asking price.


----------



## jant71 (Feb 14, 2022)

Ceeluh7 said:


> Soundpeats Mini Pro (reg. $60, I paid $39 w/coupon)
> 
> So these lil guys arent half bad... At all. They have a nice form factor that does not go deep into the ear canal but sits just outside similar to the Soundcore L3P. The included tips are okay but I did tip roll these for a better seal. Obviously that's subjective. The Ambient mode is about what you'd expect from a $60 tws and id say the ANC is pretty good as well. These block out lower frequency tones pretty good like we've come to expect from tws concerning anc. The touch controls are well done as these are not so sensitive that there is a risk for many accidental touches (at least I have not had any yet). The only gripe I have is the exclusion of back-track. I don't get it....why? Anyways, as far as SQ goes I can hear a Def V-shaped tuning but without a huge recession of the Mids. They did enhance the low end a bit without these being too boomy and they also added volume to the upper areas of the mix. The highs can get almost to the piercing side of things but rolls off right at that point for me. I like it. Yet the sub-bass and mid-bass give a good slam and rumble adding much needed warmth. That warmth extends into the Mids a bit which adds a bit of weight to male vocals which, I'd say, for a $60 set they sound okay. There is nothing amazing about this set other than there is a bunch of features which all land around average or above average considering the competition. The sound Quality is a bit better than i would expect as Soundpeats have been doing this for quite awhile and it shows. They are very musical and dynamic and replay music in any genre pretty good. These have a great form factor, at least for me. The are small and sit nicely in the ear. They aren't ugly with a pretty sharp design and the case is very small fitting perfectly in the extra small jeans pocket. These aren't giant killers but they are without a doubt well worth the asking price.


It is an interesting design. Sony should use it. 



They have done nearly the same many times but now for TWS nobody at Sony had the light bulb go off to sketch a design removing the cable exit and stack the TWS electronics behind a sidefire driver housing. How they come up with big clunky stuff like the XB700 instead with Sony's size and resources is strange. Though I guess the chips they choose to go with have some effect on it as well. If Sony went Qualcomm they could probably both have gone smaller sooner and have aptX codecs as well.


----------



## erockg

jant71 said:


> Speaking of available, the Jabra Enhance Plus is coming on Feb. 25th. Not sure you are gonna get one though. $799. Couple hundred more than I was thinking it was gonna be. Though hearing aid quality components and sound are sure to above the stuff we see in the consumer TWS.


Whoa.  Big money!


----------



## Tjdx

Ceeluh7 said:


> Soundpeats Mini Pro (reg. $60, I paid $39 w/coupon)
> 
> So these lil guys arent half bad... At all. They have a nice form factor that does not go deep into the ear canal but sits just outside similar to the Soundcore L3P. The included tips are okay but I did tip roll these for a better seal. Obviously that's subjective. The Ambient mode is about what you'd expect from a $60 tws and id say the ANC is pretty good as well. These block out lower frequency tones pretty good like we've come to expect from tws concerning anc. The touch controls are well done as these are not so sensitive that there is a risk for many accidental touches (at least I have not had any yet). The only gripe I have is the exclusion of back-track. I don't get it....why? Anyways, as far as SQ goes I can hear a Def V-shaped tuning but without a huge recession of the Mids. They did enhance the low end a bit without these being too boomy and they also added volume to the upper areas of the mix. The highs can get almost to the piercing side of things but rolls off right at that point for me. I like it. Yet the sub-bass and mid-bass give a good slam and rumble adding much needed warmth. That warmth extends into the Mids a bit which adds a bit of weight to male vocals which, I'd say, for a $60 set they sound okay. There is nothing amazing about this set other than there is a bunch of features which all land around average or above average considering the competition. The sound Quality is a bit better than i would expect as Soundpeats have been doing this for quite awhile and it shows. They are very musical and dynamic and replay music in any genre pretty good. These have a great form factor, at least for me. The are small and sit nicely in the ear. They aren't ugly with a pretty sharp design and the case is very small fitting perfectly in the extra small jeans pocket. These aren't giant killers but they are without a doubt well worth the asking price.


Another fast feedback thanks Ceeluh7, so no back track option? Weird maybe they think people tend just to skip tracks forward and if they want to get back they pull up the player? 

Did you test the mics by chance ? In a call or via teams?


----------



## Ceeluh7 (Feb 14, 2022)

jant71 said:


> It is an interesting design. Sony should use it.
> 
> They have done nearly the same many times but now for TWS nobody at Sony had the light bulb go off to sketch a design removing the cable exit and stack the TWS electronics behind a sidefire driver housing. How they come up with big clunky stuff like the XB700 instead with Sony's size and resources is strange. Though I guess the chips they choose to go with have some effect on it as well. If Sony went Qualcomm they could probably both have gone smaller sooner and have aptX codecs as well.


Sony are a prideful bunch. We all wish aptx would be included and the Qualcomm chip sets are fantastic and claim much less space. You are 1000% correct about how Sony has had to fix their form factors over the years and alot has to do with chip implementation. The form factor you bring up is interesting. Legendary iems were made with this style... It's a good thought man. Why couldn't you stack the driver in this way? Who knows, I guess people alot smarter than I get to make those choices.. Lol.


Tjdx said:


> Another fast feedback thanks Ceeluh7, so no back track option? Weird maybe they think people tend just to skip tracks forward and if they want to get back they pull up the player?
> 
> Did you test the mics by chance ? In a call or via teams?


I haven't tested mics yet, sorry bro. If someone else doesn't get to it first I will check them out soon.

Edit: I actually have a team's meeting later in the afternoon I'll try these out on and those guys are used to me asking how the mics sound... I'll let you know later


----------



## Tommy C

dweaver said:


> Does the Shure TW2 have an ambient feature? I am starting to think that would be important.
> 
> The TW2 is only $30 more than the Fiio  and you get the SE215 so I think price wise they are good choice. I spent some time looking at the shape and the FH5 and think they would work shape wise.
> 
> ...


The Shure TW2 has an excellent ambient mode and eq. The ambient also turns on/off when you play/pause music which is very useful and can be changed if you don’t want it. If you order from Amazon Canada you can either get it with the se215 in black or with the Special Edition in blue. I went with the special edition. They are not bass heavy at all and the sound quality is really nice.


----------



## erockg

erockg said:


> Picked up the Nothing Ear (1).  Better than I expected.  We shall see after a few days.  Here are a few pics for size comparison.


Further to this, Qi charging, Volume Controls, ANC slightly less than AirPods Pro/Beats Fit Pro, all other controls.  Zero issues.  Fit is better than APP.  Really enjoying them.  Calls are perfect.  Sound has EQ presets.  Balances, More Treble, More Bass, Voice.  I'm going with the More Bass.  Punchy and cool for metal.  For $99 I'm really surprised.  Great value.  Keep wondering when a bug will be revealed but nothing so far for hours.


----------



## jant71

erockg said:


> Keep wondering when a bug will be revealed but nothing so far for hours.


I see what you did there.


----------



## erockg

Based on a post by @Ceeluh7, I grabbed the AG TWS09R.  They are definitely TINY.  Battery life less than the Urbanista Lisbon.  One is open ear like the old/new AirPods, the other are in ear.  Both super tiny.  I'm always on the lookout for some great tiny buds.  Looking forward to messing around with these new AG.  Here's a pic for size comparison.


----------



## Ceeluh7

erockg said:


> Based on a post by @Ceeluh7, I grabbed the AG TWS09R.  They are definitely TINY.  Battery life less than the Urbanista Lisbon.  One is open ear like the old/new AirPods, the other are in ear.  Both super tiny.  I'm always on the lookout for some great tiny buds.  Looking forward to messing around with these new AG.  Here's a pic for size comparison.


I bumped the eq pretty high up with these but they aren't bad man. I like tiny buds too... So far pretty good thoughts on the Lisbon. Wondering what you think about them


----------



## erockg (Feb 14, 2022)

Ceeluh7 said:


> I bumped the eq pretty high up with these but they aren't bad man. I like tiny buds too... So far pretty good thoughts on the Lisbon. Wondering what you think about them


The Lisbon are a pair that you can just leave in and shop with the other half.  Not very noticeable, easy to hear or have a conversation at low volumes.  They don't give the best seal, as they're not made for that, but they get pretty loud, again, probably not what they're meant for.  I still haven't used them other than when I want to throw a pair in my little front pocket and have something when we're out and about.  I find myself just leaving them in and the battery lasts 8 or 9 hours.  Crazy.  For $40 they're incredibly undervalued.  AG definitely sound better but for an open ear, the Lisbon are no slouch.  I think someone said once, probably @jant71, that Grell tuned them?  I could be wrong.  BTW, for those looking for something that is even smaller for sleeping, the Comfobuds Z are even smaller than the AG.  Insane.


----------



## Ceeluh7

erockg said:


> The Lisbon are a pair that you can just leave in and shop with the other half.  Not very noticeable, easy to hear or have a conversation at low volumes.  They don't give the best seal, as they're not made for that, but they get pretty loud, again, probably not what they're meant for.  I still haven't used them other than when I want to throw a pair in my little front pocket and have something when we're out and about.  I find myself just leaving them in and the battery lasts 8 or 9 hours.  Crazy.  For $40 they're incredibly undervalued.  AG definitely sound better but for an open ear, the Lisbon are no slouch.  I think someone said once, probably @jant71, that Grell tuned them?  I could be wrong.  BTW, for those looking for something that is even smaller for sleeping, the Comfobuds Z are even smaller than the AG.  Insane.


Ya the AG are OK. When eq'd the drivers handle eq like Champs. I found myself bumping up the higher frequencies quite a bit as the sound sig out the gate is that final audio warm. Good resolution. They certainly aren't world changers or anything but they are tiny, sound good (must use eq) and are built well. I'm Def not propping them up as they Def are budget buds. The Lisbon just might be the better option here, you make them sound nice


----------



## erockg

Ceeluh7 said:


> Ya the AG are OK. When eq'd the drivers handle eq like Champs. I found myself bumping up the higher frequencies quite a bit as the sound sig out the gate is that final audio warm. Good resolution. They certainly aren't world changers or anything but they are tiny, sound good (must use eq) and are built well. I'm Def not propping them up as they Def are budget buds. The Lisbon just might be the better option here, you make them sound nice


No, I get it. There’s a place for the little ones at this price range but we’re not looking at audiophile quality here at all.  They have their purpose. Sadly, I do not have the ability to EQ on my iPhone which is where I predominantly use all these buds.


----------



## Caipirina

TK33 said:


> Seems like the Sony version of the Galaxy Buds Live.  Not really a new concept as that link suggests.  Still interesting to me since I do really like the Galaxy Buds Live for calls.  May keep one eye on this but wait to see what Samsung comes out with later this year.  I recall seeing rumors of a Galaxy Buds Live 2 a few months ago.


Like I speculated a few pages back  






Seems that review link has been pulled before I had a chance to read it ... ah well ... will be published tomorrow then .. but if this is targeted at the office / zoom / voice / podcast crowd .. then I am not really interested ... I thought with that hole it could be a hear through thing like that Aftershokz, great for running ...


----------



## Caipirina

Ceeluh7 said:


> Soundpeats Mini Pro (reg. $60, I paid $39 w/coupon)
> 
> So these lil guys arent half bad... At all. They have a nice form factor that does not go deep into the ear canal but sits just outside similar to the Soundcore L3P. The included tips are okay but I did tip roll these for a better seal. Obviously that's subjective. The Ambient mode is about what you'd expect from a $60 tws and id say the ANC is pretty good as well. These block out lower frequency tones pretty good like we've come to expect from tws concerning anc. The touch controls are well done as these are not so sensitive that there is a risk for many accidental touches (at least I have not had any yet). The only gripe I have is the exclusion of back-track. I don't get it....why? Anyways, as far as SQ goes I can hear a Def V-shaped tuning but without a huge recession of the Mids. They did enhance the low end a bit without these being too boomy and they also added volume to the upper areas of the mix. The highs can get almost to the piercing side of things but rolls off right at that point for me. I like it. Yet the sub-bass and mid-bass give a good slam and rumble adding much needed warmth. That warmth extends into the Mids a bit which adds a bit of weight to male vocals which, I'd say, for a $60 set they sound okay. There is nothing amazing about this set other than there is a bunch of features which all land around average or above average considering the competition. The sound Quality is a bit better than i would expect as Soundpeats have been doing this for quite awhile and it shows. They are very musical and dynamic and replay music in any genre pretty good. These have a great form factor, at least for me. The are small and sit nicely in the ear. They aren't ugly with a pretty sharp design and the case is very small fitting perfectly in the extra small jeans pocket. These aren't giant killers but they are without a doubt well worth the asking price.


Great, mine are supposed to come from China by March 6 ....


----------



## Ceeluh7

erockg said:


> No, I get it. There’s a place for the little ones at this price range but we’re not looking at audiophile quality here at all.  They have their purpose. Sadly, I do not have the ability to EQ on my iPhone which is where I predominantly use all these buds.


Gotcha... I have zero idea but can you get music apps on iOS? Like poweramp or uapp? I have been android since smartphones came out and don't really know the ios landscape. Other than i have a couple ipads but just not for music. Ya with EQ these come alive. These sound like quality drivers housed in a budget tws. I agree with you that small lil guys have their place. I like them. You said it best, they are good for following your wife around the store... Perfect


----------



## erockg

Ceeluh7 said:


> Gotcha... I have zero idea but can you get music apps on iOS? Like poweramp or uapp? I have been android since smartphones came out and don't really know the ios landscape. Other than i have a couple ipads but just not for music. Ya with EQ these come alive. These sound like quality drivers housed in a budget tws. I agree with you that small lil guys have their place. I like them. You said it best, they are good for following your wife around the store... Perfect


There are usually options out there to EQ for iOS but you would have to import your personally owned music and not DRM files from Apple Music. It’s a pain in the neck but you know. I usually stream all my music from Apple Music and buy vinyl if it’s something I truly love. You know, just in case the apocalypse happens and digital media is wiped out forever. Could happen right? Are you with me? Kidding of course.


----------



## Ceeluh7

erockg said:


> There are usually options out there to EQ for iOS but you would have to import your personally owned music and not DRM files from Apple Music. It’s a pain in the neck but you know. I usually stream all my music from Apple Music and buy vinyl if it’s something I truly love. You know, just in case the apocalypse happens and digital media is wiped out forever. Could happen right? Are you with me? Kidding of course.


Totally man. Lol


----------



## Fat Larry

Could anyone recommend either a cable/lanyard or very very small tws set? Something i could lie on pillow with? Bang for $$ always appreciated.


----------



## Caipirina

Fat Larry said:


> Could anyone recommend either a cable/lanyard or very very small tws set? Something i could lie on pillow with? Bang for $$ always appreciated.



_*FULLY AUTOMATED LUXURY GAY SPACE COMMUNISM*_

_*This got my attention  *_


----------



## assassin10000

Fat Larry said:


> Could anyone recommend either a cable/lanyard or very very small tws set? Something i could lie on pillow with? Bang for $$ always appreciated.



If you don't need a seal, maybe the urbanista lisbon.

If you do, the 1more comfobuds Z.


----------



## Tjdx

Ceeluh7 said:


> Sony are a prideful bunch. We all wish aptx would be included and the Qualcomm chip sets are fantastic and claim much less space. You are 1000% correct about how Sony has had to fix their form factors over the years and alot has to do with chip implementation. The form factor you bring up is interesting. Legendary iems were made with this style... It's a good thought man. Why couldn't you stack the driver in this way? Who knows, I guess people alot smarter than I get to make those choices.. Lol.
> 
> I haven't tested mics yet, sorry bro. If someone else doesn't get to it first I will check them out soon.
> 
> Edit: I actually have a team's meeting later in the afternoon I'll try these out on and those guys are used to me asking how the mics sound... I'll let you know later


Thanks man! appreciate your feedback and opinion, I found myself using my phaiser ark bhs-790 for work calls funny story I bought two sets a couple of years ago and they are still alive and the sound is not bad but the mic is average at best an because is on the cable somethings if I move people here too much noise, they cost like 22 usd back in the day the fit is not bad but they are not comfty enough. 

I think for work I will go for the soundpeats mini pro if the mic is decent, and probably save for a nice tws set or the fiio adapters to have something nicier for commute and move around, I do have a set of Bose QC 35 II they are ok and the ANC is nice but they are too hot to commute in summer (Im located in Latam) for traveling (airplane) or in the house they are ok.

Im attaching just for the sake of, a picture of the phaiser.


----------



## hartphoto

Ceeluh7 said:


> Gotcha... I have zero idea but can you get music apps on iOS? Like poweramp or uapp? I have been android since smartphones came out and don't really know the ios landscape. Other than i have a couple ipads but just not for music. Ya with EQ these come alive. These sound like quality drivers housed in a budget tws. I agree with you that small lil guys have their place. I like them. You said it best, they are good for following your wife around the store... Perfect





erockg said:


> There are usually options out there to EQ for iOS but you would have to import your personally owned music and not DRM files from Apple Music. It’s a pain in the neck but you know. I usually stream all my music from Apple Music and buy vinyl if it’s something I truly love. You know, just in case the apocalypse happens and digital media is wiped out forever. Could happen right? Are you with me? Kidding of course.


My iOS music listening (just a couple of the many ways)....fwiw.

Apple Music for all streaming (included with the Apple One account for the family). This is usually for music I don't have the CD's for. Bluetooth to either an ES100 (use their app for EQ and other controls) connected to wired IEMs (most of the time the Fiio FH1), or occasionally use bluetooth to a Sennheiser Momentum 3 (use the Sennheiser app for EQ). Have had a couple TWS setups, lost a Jabra 75t setup a couple weeks ago. Since this happened....gotten the 'upgradeitus' bug for the FH1/ES100.....been lurking a bit on a few threads.

You can also use the Apple Music EQ options, but it's located in Settings (!?!) when you dig into the Music app options.

Flacbox for all CDs I've ripped to FLAC files over the years. It's much like Poweramp and Uapp. Flacbox also has EQ and PreAmp options.

HTH.


----------



## erockg

hartphoto said:


> My iOS music listening (just a couple of the many ways)....fwiw.
> 
> Apple Music for all streaming (included with the Apple One account for the family). This is usually for music I don't have the CD's for. Bluetooth to either an ES100 (use their app for EQ and other controls) connected to wired IEMs (most of the time the Fiio FH1), or occasionally use bluetooth to a Sennheiser Momentum 3 (use the Sennheiser app for EQ). Have had a couple TWS setups, lost a Jabra 75t setup a couple weeks ago. Since this happened....gotten the 'upgradeitus' bug for the FH1/ES100.....been lurking a bit on a few threads.
> 
> ...


Yeah, sadly, I never go wired anymore.  I'm moving around too much   I've tried that Apple Music EQ on my Mac, but I'm always using my iPhone these days.  The EQ on the phone is a bunch of presets.  Been there too.  Oddly enough, I don't really EQ my IEMs.  I just go with it, probably why some appeal to me over others.  I'm all about my Apple One account these days too.  Love it.


----------



## Ceeluh7

Tjdx said:


> Thanks man! appreciate your feedback and opinion, I found myself using my phaiser ark bhs-790 for work calls funny story I bought two sets a couple of years ago and they are still alive and the sound is not bad but the mic is average at best an because is on the cable somethings if I move people here too much noise, they cost like 22 usd back in the day the fit is not bad but they are not comfty enough.
> 
> I think for work I will go for the soundpeats mini pro if the mic is decent, and probably save for a nice tws set or the fiio adapters to have something nicier for commute and move around, I do have a set of Bose QC 35 II they are ok and the ANC is nice but they are too hot to commute in summer (Im located in Latam) for traveling (airplane) or in the house they are ok.
> 
> Im attaching just for the sake of, a picture of the phaiser.


So after a long meeting I was told the mics sound natural, not boxy or metallic. I was told they sounded perfectly clear. I guess the good thing with these is that for $60 you will get a set that isn't abysmal at replaying the human voice and is actually pretty good considering the competition. I spoke with my son through these and he said I sounded fine. Now I wasn't in a loud environment and so I cannot give any feedback in that dept. Take care man


----------



## Ceeluh7

hartphoto said:


> My iOS music listening (just a couple of the many ways)....fwiw.
> 
> Apple Music for all streaming (included with the Apple One account for the family). This is usually for music I don't have the CD's for. Bluetooth to either an ES100 (use their app for EQ and other controls) connected to wired IEMs (most of the time the Fiio FH1), or occasionally use bluetooth to a Sennheiser Momentum 3 (use the Sennheiser app for EQ). Have had a couple TWS setups, lost a Jabra 75t setup a couple weeks ago. Since this happened....gotten the 'upgradeitus' bug for the FH1/ES100.....been lurking a bit on a few threads.
> 
> ...


Dude... The Fiio fh1. People have slept on that set. I have had it since it came out and it isn't bad at all. A little hot up top at times but tip rolling helped that out. I also covered the front vent with a mesh cover to boost the low end a tad and to me, these sound really really good. For a $59 iem. 
Thanks for the knowledge drop pertaining to ios as well. I wondered what the ios people use and if they even have the ability to eq the way i speak about at times. Thanks man


----------



## mt877

Caipirina said:


> Like I speculated a few pages back
> 
> 
> 
> Seems that review link has been pulled before I had a chance to read it ... ah well ... will be published tomorrow then .. but if this is targeted at the office / zoom / voice / podcast crowd .. then I am not really interested ... I thought with that hole it could be a hear through thing like that Aftershokz, great for running ...


That pre-launch review did say you could hear conversation clearly and would be useful for when you're doing some activity like running to hear your surroundings. The review mentioned the mids and highs were clear while the bass was a bit lacking. They had an averaged frequency response curve which showed that as well. The reality is that the open design causes the bass to be lower. I have the Aftershokz Aeropex which are great for walking, running, biking or other activities where you need to be aware of your surroundings. As you might be aware the bass is also a bit lacking with the Aftershokz, but you overcome that by using regular earplugs to block your open ear canals and the sound signature of the Aftershokz change from low bass to full bass. Besides EQ correction, the center hole in the Sony WF-L900 can be filled in / blocked as well and that may increase the bass (won't know until someone tries it). Since these fit your ears much like earbuds even if the center hole is blocked there will be incoming sound leakage so should still be good for activities where you need to be aware of your surroundings.


----------



## Tjdx

Ceeluh7 said:


> So after a long meeting I was told the mics sound natural, not boxy or metallic. I was told they sounded perfectly clear. I guess the good thing with these is that for $60 you will get a set that isn't abysmal at replaying the human voice and is actually pretty good considering the competition. I spoke with my son through these and he said I sounded fine. Now I wasn't in a loud environment and so I cannot give any feedback in that dept. Take care man


Perfect, I dont need a fancy mic just that sounds clear and natural (I do go to the office almost everyday and with the covid sh!t is very quiet).... 

Order placed... they should arrive to Miami on friday so probably next week here... 

I will post my impression once I get them but for 39.99 is not bad at all... let you know guys.


----------



## pack66

So I recently lost my left Fiil T1XS earbud to the laundry monster. Didn't have them very long and they replaced some Bomaker Sifi2s which were eaten by the dog, but I loved the sound from them. After seeing the AKG N400s on sale and lauded/derided here and elsewhere, I decided take the leap. It was either those or the Galaxy Bud Pros, which my wife has and I liked also, but didn't care for the price considering these would be used in a gym. I didn't like the thought of having to be too concerned if they were stolen, not that losing $50 earbuds is really that much better.

Has anyone picked up a pair of N400s recently? Are they still really bad in the battery/connection department or has the update settled that issue down?

I'm also curious to see what people's thoughts are here on Scarbir's site. Seems like he's bit too positive at times, but he does focus on more budget options. Just trying to gauge how much salt I should take on his reviews vs. others.


----------



## bladefd

mt877 said:


> That pre-launch review did say you could hear conversation clearly and would be useful for when you're doing some activity like running to hear your surroundings. The review mentioned the mids and highs were clear while the bass was a bit lacking. They had an averaged frequency response curve which showed that as well. The reality is that the open design causes the bass to be lower. I have the Aftershokz Aeropex which are great for walking, running, biking or other activities where you need to be aware of your surroundings. As you might be aware the bass is also a bit lacking with the Aftershokz, but you overcome that by using regular earplugs to block your open ear canals and the sound signature of the Aftershokz change from low bass to full bass. Besides EQ correction, the center hole in the Sony WF-L900 can be filled in / blocked as well and that may increase the bass (won't know until someone tries it). Since these fit your ears much like earbuds even if the center hole is blocked there will be incoming sound leakage so should still be good for activities where you need to be aware of your surroundings.


Makes me wonder if the sound leakage is both ways. Not a huge fan of having everyone around you able to hear every song you are listening to.


----------



## Fat Larry

Caipirina said:


> _*FULLY AUTOMATED LUXURY GAY SPACE COMMUNISM*_
> 
> _*This got my attention *_



Best ism around imo


----------



## Caipirina

mt877 said:


> That pre-launch review did say you could hear conversation clearly and would be useful for when you're doing some activity like running to hear your surroundings. The review mentioned the mids and highs were clear while the bass was a bit lacking. They had an averaged frequency response curve which showed that as well. The reality is that the open design causes the bass to be lower. I have the Aftershokz Aeropex which are great for walking, running, biking or other activities where you need to be aware of your surroundings. As you might be aware the bass is also a bit lacking with the Aftershokz, but you overcome that by using regular earplugs to block your open ear canals and the sound signature of the Aftershokz change from low bass to full bass. Besides EQ correction, the center hole in the Sony WF-L900 can be filled in / blocked as well and that may increase the bass (won't know until someone tries it). Since these fit your ears much like earbuds even if the center hole is blocked there will be incoming sound leakage so should still be good for activities where you need to be aware of your surroundings.


Thanks for the summary ... at least I should have a chance soon-ish to try in-store here, guess e-earphone might have them on launch day. 
Got those Aeropex a while ago and they are great for park running, away from cars ... in traffic though (on the sidewalk) I hear more cars than music. 

But gotta give it to Sony for keeping trying new things ...


----------



## tiagopinto

cytoSiN said:


> My wife literally stomps up behind my office chair so I feel the floor shake...I'd have no idea otherwise...  Need to reconfigure my office so I can see the door...  Or just get something with ambient I guess?  🤷‍♂️



Never would I reposition my desk to have my back to the door. Just a thought.


----------



## tiagopinto

Tommy C said:


> I'm also in the WFH club... I despise it.



I only go back to the office when they make me... after 26 months WFH, I can’t see myself spending two hours a day commuting, having to get up an hour earlier, spending money for lunch, to arrive at an almost empty office. 

With WFH, my quality of life has definitely increased. I gained sleep, time, money, tranquility. And I’m as productive, if not more. And more focused. 

This is no diss, I do have friends who also hate it.

Oh, and I listen to even more music, getting to choose between speakers, IEMs, Bluetooth. I have all my music sources and resources available.


----------



## samandhi

tiagopinto said:


> I only go back to the office when they make me... after 26 months WFH, I can’t see myself spending two hours a day commuting, having to get up an hour earlier, spending money for lunch, to arrive at an almost empty office.
> 
> With WFH, my quality of life has definitely increased. I gained sleep, time, money, tranquility. And I’m as productive, if not more. And more focused.
> 
> ...


I'm right there with your brother!


----------



## mt877

bladefd said:


> Makes me wonder if the sound leakage is both ways. Not a huge fan of having everyone around you able to hear every song you are listening to.


There will probably be some outbound sound leakage like typical earbuds since there's no ear tips, but probably so low that other people won't hear it or bother anyone. It might be more bothersome to you if you're trying to concentrate on the music and you hear the surrounding noise. But you'll be expecting that because that's what these are designed for.



Caipirina said:


> Thanks for the summary ... at least I should have a chance soon-ish to try in-store here, guess e-earphone might have them on launch day.
> Got those Aeropex a while ago and they are great for park running, away from cars ... in traffic though (on the sidewalk) I hear more cars than music.
> 
> But gotta give it to Sony for keeping trying new things ...


Wow, great you can audition them in store. Maybe try to lightly cover the holes with your fingertips and see if the sound changes? It would be nice if you can share you initial impressions.


----------



## hartphoto

Ceeluh7 said:


> Dude... The Fiio fh1. People have slept on that set. I have had it since it came out and it isn't bad at all. A little hot up top at times but tip rolling helped that out. I also covered the front vent with a mesh cover to boost the low end a tad and to me, these sound really really good. For a $59 iem.
> Thanks for the knowledge drop pertaining to ios as well. I wondered what the ios people use and if they even have the ability to eq the way i speak about at times. Thanks man


Hope it helped, switched over to Android for a few years with HTC or One + devices as long as I could 'root' them, then switched back to iOS as those options became slim.

The FH1/ES100 combo is a trooper. Still use it often for sleeping, yard work, walking, etc. Foam tips (cheap Comply knock offs) help isolation. I can wear them for hours without readjusting the seal.

FWIW, the Jabra Elite 75t Active was pretty nice...used the Jabra app also for EQing, sound was nice. They were tiny, but still put too much pressure on the ear canals when sleeping, and the other niggle....I had to readjust them every few minutes to keep the seal when outdoors (even with all sorts of tip rolling tryouts). The mics, though....worked very well for calls, even outdoors in the wind.

Torn on the upgradeitus path....or if I even need to go there...considering FD3, FH3, FD5, FH5s, 7hz Timeless. Later this year I'd augment with a FiiO UTW3/UTW5 (or something along those lines) to get back to TWS setup.


----------



## dmphile (Feb 15, 2022)

@Phaethon Bro - I didn't think goose bumps were possible with IEMs but the Dorado 2020 immediately delivered on the first few tracks I put on. Having never invested in $1K IEMs I really didn't want a good reason to keep them (for the sake of my wallet) but they are definitely in a league of their own.

I am now a believer but I do think beyond this price point may just be diminishing returns. It has an even fuller, more dynamic, detailed and clean/robust bass and sonic profile than the FH9s. It really is incredible and for the most part, it has the right amount of sparkle before it gets too peaky or harsh in the treble region while pushing mids and vocals more to the forefront. That bass is thick, clean and robust, the most precise I've heard, insane. I know I'm gushing because I feel like I'm sitting in a Ferrari instead of a BMW now. Immersive, dynamic, impactful and detailed at a different level. You want to appreciate details of instruments in jazz and classical? These deliver. You want to get jacked listening to more energetic genres? Rock, PoP, EDM? These deliver. Are they clinical? Probably not, but for those that want an immersive and amazingly fun IEM with great depth, good stage, detail with thick bass and rumble, these will deliver and go a little above. 

Is it worth the extra 400 CAD over the FH9s to end my search and sell off the rest of my small collection? Yes, probably. Also, did I mention it's gorgeous and comfort wise, the most ergonomic out of all the other IEMs I've tried? Dunno why crin rated these so poorly but I've just recognized that everyone has their own taste and bias towards certain sound signatures. This is my jam, I am a fan and this may likely be my end game for years to come... except for TWS


----------



## tiagopinto

BooleanBones said:


> If it makes you two feel any better, I still have my Discman



Me too. A D-EJ1000 in mint condition. I just took it out of its original box and out of the dedicated CaseLogic pouch... and memories started firing up. I used to take this thing EVERYWHERE. Thanks for mentioning this.


----------



## tiagopinto

cytoSiN said:


> This old thing?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Yeah, along with the discman, I also still own my MZ-R50. Amazing memories. Cheers.


----------



## jant71

Wow this Sony video really making the Link Buds out to be the next best thing since sliced bread. The marketing is very strong on this one lol!


----------



## Ceeluh7

hartphoto said:


> Hope it helped, switched over to Android for a few years with HTC or One + devices as long as I could 'root' them, then switched back to iOS as those options became slim.
> 
> The FH1/ES100 combo is a trooper. Still use it often for sleeping, yard work, walking, etc. Foam tips (cheap Comply knock offs) help isolation. I can wear them for hours without readjusting the seal.
> 
> ...


For me, there are certainly upgrades from the fh1. Fd1, Fd3, fh3, fh5, fd5 are all direct upgrades within the Fiio lineup. Other than fiio I can say that iems have come a very long way since the fh1 came out with many companies creating iems under $100 that would have been $500 iems 7-8 yrs ago. While it was a good iem for the time and even a decent iem nowadays, there are some pretty amazing iems at a budget price. Even at lesser price than the fh1. I just got a little nostalgic there. 
As far as the utws3/5 goes, I think you'd be surprised how well they can replay music with a good iem attached. Fiio really did a fantastic job.


----------



## Ceeluh7

dmphile said:


> @Phaethon Bro - I didn't think goose bumps were possible with IEMs but the Dorado 2020 immediately delivered on the first few tracks I put on. Having never invested in $1K IEMs I really didn't want a good reason to keep them (for the sake of my wallet) but they are definitely in a league of their own.
> 
> I am now a believer but I do think beyond this price point may just be diminishing returns. It has an even fuller, more dynamic, detailed and clean/robust bass and sonic profile than the FH9s. It really is incredible and for the most part, it has the right amount of sparkle before it gets too peaky or harsh in the treble region while pushing mids and vocals more to the forefront. That bass is thick, clean and robust, the most precise I've heard, insane. I know I'm gushing because I feel like I'm sitting in a Ferrari instead of a BMW now. Immersive, dynamic, impactful and detailed at a different level. You want to appreciate details of instruments in jazz and classical? These deliver. You want to get jacked listening to more energetic genres? Rock, PoP, EDM? These deliver.
> 
> Is it worth the extra 400 CAD over the FH9s to end my search and sell off the rest of my small collection? Yes, probably. Also, did I mention it's gorgeous and comfort wise, the most ergonomic out of all the other IEMs I've tried? Dunno why crin rated these so poorly but I've just recognized that everyone has their own taste and bias towards certain sound signatures. This is my jam, I am a fan and this may likely be my end game for years to come... except for TWS


You are exactly right. To Crin... What he likes is what he likes. Everyone is always right in this hobby. That's great that you got the Dorado man! I have not had the pleasure of listening to them as I had pretty much written off anything from Campfire as they have come out with some real duds. I have heard good things about this set though. Very cool.


----------



## Sam L

Caipirina said:


> I don't have a problem ... YOU have a problem


Wow, I feel like I have no issue with accumulating tws's, after seeing your picture. 

Do you keep them all charged up? I have around 15 and rotate between 10 or so, but it takes me a month to rotate through them -- sometimes just listening to a song or two before putting it away for another month. sounds strange as I type this, but we're a strange bunch, no? Earlier today I just realized 3 or 4 of my tws' had to be topped off because it's been almost a couple months since I've listened to them.


----------



## Thesonofkrypton

jant71 said:


> Wow this Sony video really making the Link Buds out to be the next best thing since sliced bread. The marketing is very strong on this one lol!


I believe ALL companies do this lol.  What do you expect, they're not exactly going to say, "We know you've been waiting for this.  Today we introduce our average sounding wireless earbuds with less than satisfactory battery life.  Available for pre-order today."


----------



## jant71 (Feb 15, 2022)

Thesonofkrypton said:


> I believe ALL companies do this lol.  What do you expect, they're not exactly going to say, "We know you've been waiting for this.  Today we introduce our average sounding wireless earbuds with less than satisfactory battery life.  Available for pre-order today."


Not about the product though. They are not saying it is a great product. They are saying it is an evolutionary link to your world. It is gonna help blind people get around better, it is gonna change gaming, it is gonna transport you to another dimension of interacting with your world.

Would be nice if they said stuff about the product being great but not much about the product. They are the newest headphone revolution. They are gonna change your world.





So, is making them out to be a new evolution really what they all do??  Talking going portable(Walkman of course mentioned) is an evolution and going from wired to wireless an evolution and now Link Buds is another evolution!!!!!!!(Did I put nought exclamations?)


----------



## smith

erockg said:


> Further to this, Qi charging, Volume Controls, ANC slightly less than AirPods Pro/Beats Fit Pro, all other controls.  Zero issues.  Fit is better than APP.  Really enjoying them.  Calls are perfect.  Sound has EQ presets.  Balances, More Treble, More Bass, Voice.  I'm going with the More Bass.  Punchy and cool for metal.  For $99 I'm really surprised.  Great value.  Keep wondering when a bug will be revealed but nothing so far for hours.


How is the volume level on them... read a few amazon reviews which say they do not go loud enough


----------



## Sp12er3

The link buds is out 



Anyoen interested with a real Open Back True Wireless? I mean it literally got a hole in it. 

Techmoan is more casual and he really isn't comfortable with any in ear headphones, but his impression and close up view is appreciated. 

While Linus is actually quite interested with personal audio, daily drive an HD600 at home and used to rock the IE8, 80 and 800 as his EDC until Airpods came out. He did mentioned he's tempted to buy an IE900 in recent WAN show tho, so he does care for sound when he wants to.


----------



## Sp12er3

Sam L said:


> Wow, I feel like I have no issue with accumulating tws's, after seeing your picture.
> 
> Do you keep them all charged up? I have around 15 and rotate between 10 or so, but it takes me a month to rotate through them -- sometimes just listening to a song or two before putting it away for another month. sounds strange as I type this, but we're a strange bunch, no? Earlier today I just realized 3 or 4 of my tws' had to be topped off because it's been almost a couple months since I've listened to them.


Dude I can't live through that, especially when I know TWS have actual limit on its lifetime due to its battery. Compared to headphones and other gear that has 5+ years at least, the tiny batter on tws is just destined to make every single one of them to be in landfills.. 1 TWS is enough for my life.


----------



## jant71 (Feb 15, 2022)

Sp12er3 said:


> The link buds is out
> 
> 
> 
> ...




More niche right now but certainly some will have a use for it. Doubt with the F.R. and losing that low bass that the gamers will dig them. The phone gamers that play "Best Fiends" most likely but not serious gamers.

As I speculated the tap your ear thing would have to give issues. So, in the email we learn they are a double and triple tap control scheme so that would help stop accidentals. Guess you can't hold your front ear parts so you are limited and it says nothing about volume control again. They have an auto volume based on sensing outside sounds thing but it seems if you just want to crank it you need to do it on device or via voice assistant.

Specs do correct that they are BT5.2. No aptX just SBC/AAC, says 2.5 hours continuous communication time so your Zoom and work stuff better not be that long or you need a break to quick charge.

I thought these could be big for work from home or certain office settings but max 2.5 hours constant communication is not gonna cut it for a bunch of people.


----------



## erockg

smith said:


> How is the volume level on them... read a few amazon reviews which say they do not go loud enough


I do have to turn them up higher than most of my buds, but they get plenty loud for me.  On odd issue I'm having is that ANC resets when you put them in the case, so you have to re-cycle to ANC again when you put them in.  Outside of that, for $99 they are a very very good value.


----------



## nekonhime

Hey guys, what is the best eq map for the Akg N400nc?


----------



## xSDMx

The link buds look terrible! Wack fit, missing audio codecs, poor battery life, bad sound signature. What was Sony thinking?


----------



## xSDMx

Sp12er3 said:


> Dude I can't live through that, especially when I know TWS have actual limit on its lifetime due to its battery. Compared to headphones and other gear that has 5+ years at least, the tiny batter on tws is just destined to make every single one of them to be in landfills.. 1 TWS is enough for my life.


The limited lifespan is a big argument for IEM + TWS earhook adapters. When the battery dies, get a new earhook or try to repair the old earhook. New Bluetooth tech or audio codecs? Get a new earhook while saving the bulk of your investment by reusing the IEMs.


----------



## dmphile

Ceeluh7 said:


> You are exactly right. To Crin... What he likes is what he likes. Everyone is always right in this hobby. That's great that you got the Dorado man! I have not had the pleasure of listening to them as I had pretty much written off anything from Campfire as they have come out with some real duds. I have heard good things about this set though. Very cool.


I hear ya man. Out of curiosity, which CFA products did you try and why didn't you like them? I've heard many good things about the Solaris and Andromeda's but wanted to get a fresh take from the community what they think? Listening to the Durado 2020 gives me that sense of emotion that I feel many IEMs miss the mark on. It's also VERY good on poorly recorded tracks.


----------



## Phaethon

dmphile said:


> @Phaethon Bro - I didn't think goose bumps were possible with IEMs but the Dorado 2020 immediately delivered on the first few tracks I put on. Having never invested in $1K IEMs I really didn't want a good reason to keep them (for the sake of my wallet) but they are definitely in a league of their own.
> 
> I am now a believer but I do think beyond this price point may just be diminishing returns. It has an even fuller, more dynamic, detailed and clean/robust bass and sonic profile than the FH9s. It really is incredible and for the most part, it has the right amount of sparkle before it gets too peaky or harsh in the treble region while pushing mids and vocals more to the forefront. That bass is thick, clean and robust, the most precise I've heard, insane. I know I'm gushing because I feel like I'm sitting in a Ferrari instead of a BMW now. Immersive, dynamic, impactful and detailed at a different level. You want to appreciate details of instruments in jazz and classical? These deliver. You want to get jacked listening to more energetic genres? Rock, PoP, EDM? These deliver.
> 
> Is it worth the extra 400 CAD over the FH9s to end my search and sell off the rest of my small collection? Yes, probably. Also, did I mention it's gorgeous and comfort wise, the most ergonomic out of all the other IEMs I've tried? Dunno why crin rated these so poorly but I've just recognized that everyone has their own taste and bias towards certain sound signatures. This is my jam, I am a fan and this may likely be my end game for years to come... except for TWS


I’m so happy! I am still ecstatic with them a week later! Like you, I couldn’t figure out why Crin dismissed them, but I realized he and I different tastes and different goals. He wants it pristine and I want it colored, but colored just the way I want it. I think that makes me an audiophile troglodyte but I’m in it for the sound I like. 
Your descriptions were so good you should write reviews! Cheers!


----------



## Ceeluh7

dmphile said:


> I hear ya man. Out of curiosity, which CFA products did you try and why didn't you like them? I've heard many good things about the Solaris and Andromeda's but wanted to get a fresh take from the community what they think? Listening to the Durado 2020 gives me that sense of emotion that I feel many IEMs miss the mark on. It's also VERY good on poorly recorded tracks.


The Solaris and Andromeda are both very nice. Let's put it this way, any Campfire product with a ton of acclaim is an amazing product. If you do not hear much about a certain set than it likely just wasn't for everyone. Campfire does specific tuning at times which targets certain audiences and so saying that some have been duds is prob me overstepping and prob was not very kind. Campfire knows what they are doing man. No doubt. Sometimes they target certain genres rather than make balanced sets that have mass appeal. I haven't tried the Dorado but I hear it's very nice.


----------



## erockg

jant71 said:


> More niche right now but certainly some will have a use for it. Doubt with the F.R. and losing that low bass that the gamers will dig them. The phone gamers that play "Best Fiends" most likely but not serious gamers.
> 
> As I speculated the tap your ear thing would have to give issues. So, in the email we learn they are a double and triple tap control scheme so that would help stop accidentals. Guess you can't hold your front ear parts so you are limited and it says nothing about volume control again. They have an auto volume based on sensing outside sounds thing but it seems if you just want to crank it you need to do it on device or via voice assistant.
> 
> ...


Yeah, I'm reading a lot and watching a lot about them and they seem pretty awesome for Zoom and WFH or even in an office setting like mine used to be in the former world we lived in.  There was another set of bud that used cheek taps.  I think it was the Bragi Dash Pro.  I remember it actually worked well for me.  You know me, I'll give these a shot from a place with a good return policy.  That said, the Urbanista Lisbon are similar in that they have that open ear AirPods design.  They're also tiny.  But you don't know how many times these days I have to NOT wear headphones to her the Fedex guy ring the doorbell!    Real world problems.  Bah!


----------



## jant71

erockg said:


> Yeah, I'm reading a lot and watching a lot about them and they seem pretty awesome for Zoom and WFH or even in an office setting like mine used to be in the former world we lived in.  There was another set of bud that used cheek taps.  I think it was the Bragi Dash Pro.  I remember it actually worked well for me.  You know me, I'll give these a shot from a place with a good return policy.  That said, the Urbanista Lisbon are similar in that they have that open ear AirPods design.  They're also tiny.  But you don't know how many times these days I have to NOT wear headphones to her the Fedex guy ring the doorbell!    Real world problems.  Bah!


You are just gonna end up with some Koss drivers mounted on the FiiO earhooks.


----------



## erockg

jant71 said:


> You are just gonna end up with some Koss drivers mounted on the FiiO earhooks.


Coby and I'm SOLD.


----------



## erockg

erockg said:


> I do have to turn them up higher than most of my buds, but they get plenty loud for me.  On odd issue I'm having is that ANC resets when you put them in the case, so you have to re-cycle to ANC again when you put them in.  Outside of that, for $99 they are a very very good value.


Further to this, the Nothing Ear 1 really do give my LG Tone FP8 a run for their money.  Close, but man, the NE1 do sound excellent.  I read that the White version had bug and they possibly fixed everything as they released the Black version later.  I'm using the latter.


----------



## jant71 (Feb 15, 2022)

@erockg...






Dude should just use the skinny headband though and wear the FiiO earhooks normal. Not quite sure of that two earhooks at once choice.


----------



## erockg

jant71 said:


> @erockg...
> 
> 
> 
> Dude should just use the skinny headband though and wear the FiiO earhooks normal. Not quite sure of that two earhooks at once choice.


Ha ha!  Spare no expense.


----------



## dmphile (Feb 15, 2022)

Phaethon said:


> I’m so happy! I am still ecstatic with them a week later! Like you, I couldn’t figure out why Crin dismissed them, but I realized he and I different tastes and different goals. He wants it pristine and I want it colored, but colored just the way I want it. I think that makes me an audiophile troglodyte but I’m in it for the sound I like.
> Your descriptions were so good you should write reviews! Cheers!


haha, thanks for the kind words! And yes, very true concerning crin's thoughts on this IEM.

This is all still new to me, so I'm trying to learn from how others describe sound profiles and apply it in my own experience and hopefully it helps others bring to light what they enjoy/like in terms of sonic profiles and signatures. The search and discovery is definitely a huge part of the thrill and when you finally find something that just hits the spot, it's such a gratifying feeling. Huge thank you to _you_ for bringing these amazing IEMs to my attention! (My wallet doesn't thank you, but my ears and brain do lol)

Cheers man!


----------



## darveniza

bladefd said:


> Makes me wonder if the sound leakage is both ways. Not a huge fan of having everyone around you able to hear every song you are listening to.


When are they going for sale???


----------



## erockg

darveniza said:


> When are they going for sale???


Thursday.


----------



## nekonhime

https://techcrunch.com/2022/02/15/sonys-new-headphones-have-giant-holes-to-let-sound-in/
Where I can buy the wf-1000xm5 lol?


----------



## mt877

darveniza said:


> When are they going for sale???
> 
> 
> erockg said:
> ...


Amazon has them for pre-order purchase. Going for $178.00. I think if you pre-order they might arrive at your door by Mon or Tues next week with prime shipping(?).


----------



## erockg

mt877 said:


> Amazon has them for pre-order purchase. Going for $178.00. I think if you pre-order they might arrive at your door by Mon or Tues next week with prime shipping(?).


Yeah, saw that too.  I may just swing by my local Best Buy.  Definitely considering them for my WFH setup.  That said, who knows, I may hate them


----------



## nekonhime

P


erockg said:


> Yeah, saw that too.  I may just swing by my local Best Buy.  Definitely considering them for my WFH setup.  That said, who knows, I may hate them


Please give your impression soon about the call quality


----------



## erockg

nekonhime said:


> P
> 
> Please give your impression soon about the call quality


If they are in my hands, no doubt I surely will!


----------



## nekonhime

erockg said:


> If they are in my hands, no doubt I surely will!


Can't wait for that, as Sony headphones and tws always have bad rap for call quality in general


----------



## Phaethon

Eeek! Headphones.com has an open box Monarch Mk2 for full price. This is the only one - new or open box - that I’ve seen since that pair @erockg bought out from my shopping cart! But full price non-returnable? Holy moley!


----------



## erockg

Phaethon said:


> Eeek! Headphones.com has an open box Monarch Mk2 for full price. This is the only one - new or open box - that I’ve seen since that pair @erockg bought out from my shopping cart! But full price non-returnable? Holy moley!


Wow.  Yeah, not sure I'd take them at full price being open, but man, I am using mine right now and they are as always, wonderful.  Soundstage is excellent with the 6 BAs.


----------



## samandhi

The Sony Linkbuds look very interesting. I know we all use the term earbuds nowadays for IEMs or TWS (which are basically IEMs with no wires), but true (classic/flathead) earbuds are something else. With that in mind, it looks like Sony is trying to reinvent the earbud, and make them TWS. I applaud them for it. The (classic/flathead) earbud community will probably appreciate it. Believe it or not there is still a huge community for classic earbuds, and there are some big companies that have refined them to sound (in some cases) better than IEMs; think Moondrop Chaconne = better than some $1k-$2k IEMs IMHO.

On the other hand, how do they think they can get away with not having anything more than SBC or AAC in nowadays tech; except that it almost looks like these were meant more for calling than music. Heck, I would expect at least LDAC being as it IS a Sony brand... LOL That being said, I may give them a try anyhow just to see what's what, since I can get them from Amazon. I never return anything (unless it has issues), but I am glad to have that choice, should I need it.


----------



## tinyman392

samandhi said:


> The Sony Linkbuds look very interesting. I know we all use the term earbuds nowadays for IEMs or TWS (which are basically IEMs with no wires), but true (classic/flathead) earbuds are something else. With that in mind, it looks like Sony is trying to reinvent the earbud, and make them TWS. I applaud them for it. The (classic/flathead) earbud community will probably appreciate it. Believe it or not there is still a huge community for classic earbuds, and there are some big companies that have refined them to sound (in some cases) better than IEMs; think Moondrop Chaconne = better than some $1k-$2k IEMs IMHO.
> 
> On the other hand, how do they think they can get away with not having anything more than SBC or AAC in nowadays tech; except that it almost looks like these were meant more for calling than music. Heck, I would expect at least LDAC being as it IS a Sony brand... LOL That being said, I may give them a try anyhow just to see what's what, since I can get them from Amazon. I never return anything (unless it has issues), but I am glad to have that choice, should I need it.


I’m curious how they’ll measure. I kind of want to try them out.


----------



## samandhi

tinyman392 said:


> I’m curious how they’ll measure. I kind of want to try them out.


Unless the UTWS5 is available again by Thursday, I will probably blow the money to test them out, and the wait will continue for the UTWS5... LOL


----------



## guitarizt

samandhi said:


> Unless the UTWS5 is available again by Thursday, I will probably blow the money to test them out, and the wait will continue for the UTWS5... LOL


The 5's seem awesome for updated dac+amp, but the 3's were half the price when I bought them a couple months ago and I love them. I'm using them right now. I haven't had any problems with them.


----------



## Ceeluh7

samandhi said:


> Unless the UTWS5 is available again by Thursday, I will probably blow the money to test them out, and the wait will continue for the UTWS5... LOL


Ya the second the 5's come in.... Anywhere... They are gone. I would Def recommend the Utws3 as well.


----------



## Ceeluh7

guitarizt said:


> The 5's seem awesome for updated dac+amp, but the 3's were half the price when I bought them a couple months ago and I love them. I'm using them right now. I haven't had any problems with them.


Very much agree. The Utws3 are very very nice


----------



## samandhi

Ceeluh7 said:


> Ya the second the 5's come in.... Anywhere... They are gone. I would Def recommend the Utws3 as well.


I would get the UTWS3, but I will be needing the extra boost for driving my P1's. Don't know if I want/need both. Thanks for the rec though! 

Speaking of blowing money; ack, I'm such a sucker, but if these sound decent, they will be perfect for my work. I've been using regular (flathead/classic) earbuds till now (working in various mechanical/boiler rooms and need to hear, ambient hasn't really cut it for me at this point). Plus, combining TWS with flathead earbuds, how can I NOT try these? We'll see?! 

The reviews seem to be polarizing at this point. That and the fact that AAC and SBC are the only codecs, makes me nervous. On the other hand, most of the early reviews I have read are sites that are used to IEM types of TWS, rather than true earbuds (which is pretty much a niche following anyhow, of which I am a total fan, and that these are indeed), and those are (mostly) all bass boosted for the outside environment, etc...


----------



## cresny

samandhi said:


> I would get the UTWS3, but I will be needing the extra boost for driving my P1's. Don't know if I want/need both. Thanks for the rec though!
> 
> Speaking of blowing money; ack, I'm such a sucker, but if these sound decent, they will be perfect for my work. I've been using regular (flathead/classic) earbuds till now (working in various mechanical/boiler rooms and need to hear, ambient hasn't really cut it for me at this point). Plus, combining TWS with flathead earbuds, how can I NOT try these? We'll see?!
> 
> The reviews seem to be polarizing at this point. That and the fact that AAC and SBC are the only codecs, makes me nervous. On the other hand, most of the early reviews I have read are sites that are used to IEM types of TWS, rather than true earbuds (which is pretty much a niche following anyhow, of which I am a total fan, and that these are indeed), and those are (mostly) all bass boosted for the outside environment, etc...


I think you'll find the UTWS5s worth the wait. I'm driving my Shuorer S12 planars to bass monster glory and loving every minute. Ambient is better on these than any TWS I've heard, especially when using the volume controls. I found I can get a true as-if-nothing-on effect while still getting good music dynamics. It's also a nice change from TWS where pressing buttons jams them painfully into your ear. I bought mine from audio46.com, and I noticed they do get them in sometimes, they had them the other day. Sadly not now. But if you are after ambient you may wind up returning the Sonys after you get these.


----------



## xuan87

The linkbuds are definitely one of the most interesting TWS releases, can't wait for them to come to a sony store near me so I can test them out.

I'm not sure I will even group them as earbuds since they're even more open than earbuds with the donut shape.


----------



## Tommy C

tiagopinto said:


> I only go back to the office when they make me... after 26 months WFH, I can’t see myself spending two hours a day commuting, having to get up an hour earlier, spending money for lunch, to arrive at an almost empty office.
> 
> With WFH, my quality of life has definitely increased. I gained sleep, time, money, tranquility. And I’m as productive, if not more. And more focused.
> 
> ...


Oh yeah, I get it. I used to work from home before the pandemic but in my last role it was just super frustrating and annoying and was constantly on calls with literally zero time to listen to my tunes


----------



## assassin10000

xuan87 said:


> The linkbuds are definitely one of the most interesting TWS releases, can't wait for them to come to a sony store near me so I can test them out.
> 
> I'm not sure I will even group them as earbuds since they're even more open than earbuds with the donut shape.



Not their first open earbud attempt.

These were pretty neat. Xperia ear duo.


----------



## ldo77

Did someone compare ze3000 with cx sennheiser ?


----------



## xuan87

assassin10000 said:


> Not their first open earbud attempt.
> 
> These were pretty neat. Xperia ear duo.



Yea I remembered seeing those when it came out, read up on them but lost interest because of their size.

The verge's review on the Linkbuds made me interested to try them out for myself.


----------



## nekonhime

How can I improve the sound of my AKG 400nc more?


----------



## Caipirina (Feb 16, 2022)

I am still pretty torn about what I think about those LinkBuds ... I was kinda ready this morning to travel to Akihabara in hopes that at 10AM e-earphone would have them already ... but then I saw the first YT videos ... and well .. my enthusiasm waned a bit, I especially scoffed at this 'sustainable made from recycled plastic', while at the same time they have sent out those single use press-kit boxes for extra WOW youtube unboxing videos ... that rubbed me kinda wrong.
Thinking a bit more clearly ... would I really spend 180$ on a no-ANC, no AptX / LDAC bud, just because it is new, shiny, different and SONY (yes, still, I probably would, but with a pause) ... and I keep coming back to comparing them to my Aftershokz ... would they be a could replacement for those ... (not that they need replacing) ...

Well, I will check if any of the big electronic shops i might come across tomorrow have them out to try ... bit confused that Amazon.JP does not feature them yet .... they might do the US market first? We shall see

I very much get the 'flat earbud' feel that @samandhi brought up a few times ... say samandhi, were you / are you part of that very active FB group on that topic? I used to hang around their a lot and bought way too much 

Edit: Oh, good I did not trek all the way to get those linkbuds .. seems release in Japan is 25th  ... this is kinda crappy coming from a JAPANESE company!


----------



## SilverEars (Feb 16, 2022)

*ATH-CKS50TW*

It's about time!  I was waiting for *20+ hrs of battery life* that has ANC.   This is the practicality I was waiting for.

https://www.theverge.com/platform/a...ca-ath-cks50tw-earbuds-anc-battery-life-price

It says *15hrs with ANC*, but I wish we can get minimjm 20 hrs with good ANC so that with battery degredation, they can last awhile.  Also, want a high ifixit score (infinite lasting with reduced landfill contribution).

If one day, I run into a TWS with AptX Lossless (with good  signal connections everywhere), with good ANC, with long battery life like this, I'm sold!  This is all I need.  I will be carrying it around everywhere  and  it will be a part of me like my phone and watch.

Once it meets all these requirements, I'm done.  Not that I collect TWS, but I am looking for the ONE that will be ALL usage and pocketable.  Long battery life has been the most importan spec I been waiting for on a TWS.


----------



## Tjdx

SilverEars said:


> *ATH-CKS50TW*
> 
> It's about time!  I was waiting for *20+ hrs of battery life* that has ANC.   This is the practicality I was waiting for.
> 
> ...



I think in 1 more year or less we can have something with 20 hrs of battery with ANC on the size of the ATH-CKS50TW im very interested in those but they are still not available in the states, and dont want to buy them from Amazon JP, but seeing them now on the verge and engadget is a good sign of those coming soon to Amazon USA, i still want something with multi point, anyway battery technology is on a revolution due to the car industry pushing so sooner or later we will see better batteries in across multiple devices.

Regarding the ifixit score I also would love to see items than can be repaired more easily I always hesisate when it come to battery powered things (that you cant easily change the battery).


----------



## Sam L

Sp12er3 said:


> Dude I can't live through that, especially when I know TWS have actual limit on its lifetime due to its battery. Compared to headphones and other gear that has 5+ years at least, the tiny batter on tws is just destined to make every single one of them to be in landfills.. 1 TWS is enough for my life.


I actually find myself justifying keeping multiple TWS on hand because if I have a deep rotation, the batteries will likely not go through many cycles. lol... the things we tell ourselves in this hobby/sickness.


----------



## tiagopinto

Juturna said:


> Sometimes it blows being into TWS earbuds when living in Europe.



I totally concur. We definitely do not have access to many, many things. Not only TWS. At least not without VAT taxes (23% here) plus any additional taxes/costs. Major bummer.


----------



## SilverEars (Feb 16, 2022)

Tjdx said:


> I think in 1 more year or less we can have something with 20 hrs of battery with ANC on the size of the ATH-CKS50TW im very interested in those but they are still not available in the states, and dont want to buy them from Amazon JP, but seeing them now on the verge and engadget is a good sign of those coming soon to Amazon USA, i still want something with multi point, anyway battery technology is on a revolution due to the car industry pushing so sooner or later we will see better batteries in across multiple devices.
> 
> Regarding the ifixit score I also would love to see items than can be repaired more easily I always hesisate when it come to battery powered things (that you cant easily change the battery).


I totally forgot  about multi-point.  It's VERY VERY practical.  I want a unified standard in non-Apple device environments.  I want to be able to switch between my PC, Phone, TV, home audio system (server that transmits wirelessly), seamlessly.  When phone call comes, I answer and switches to my phone, etc..  When I start up (answer) a video conference call on my pc (or any other device), it auto switches to  it, etc..  Would be awesome!!!!!!!!

I believe this is where usefulness of wireless actually applies.  It just changes the game if applied really well.  It just makes so much sense for wireless to be the solution for  having  one  device that does all over multiple wired devices.

The day when TWS becomes ideal all in one that does most things that switches automatically with perfect intuition is  the day I'm looking forward to!


----------



## tiagopinto

erockg said:


> I'm using the TW2 adapter with the MMCX-2 Pin adapter to the Moondrop Variations.



Are the MMCX to 2 pin adapters, you’re using, like this?


----------



## tiagopinto

Tommy C said:


> My local audio shop recommended the CA Honeydew. Sadly they were out of stock when I checked a while back and no demo unit available at that time.
> They said the buds are more comfortable too since it's 3D printed from resin and not metal if I remember correctly.



The duality between Honeydew/Satsuma and Holocene/Mammoth is what grips me. I’d have to listen first before pulling any trigger. But the distributor here only shows a few older models on their website. I’ve asked the guy if they’re going to get them... or any newer models... no news. 

So now I’m after the Dusk, but apparently they’re only available from China, which, as said before reflects an increase in price of at least 25%. No go, for now... I really want these.


----------



## Ceeluh7

Sam L said:


> I actually find myself justifying keeping multiple TWS on hand because if I have a deep rotation, the batteries will likely not go through many cycles. lol... the things we tell ourselves in this hobby/sickness.


That's exactly what I tell my self... Nobody can tell me different either... Lol. "Eh, those batteries are still good"


----------



## erockg

tiagopinto said:


> Are the MMCX to 2 pin adapters, you’re using, like this?


Similar but maybe even smaller.  The OKCSC mini version:  https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B09NN97X6H/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&th=1


----------



## SaveTheMantaRays

I have not listened to wired IEMs in a while, but I decided to last night.
I listened to all of my TWS buds as well, ranging from $30-$300 each.
The listening experience of $60 wired IEMs still blow all of the TWS out of the water.
I stopped believing that awhile ago, but the test proved it. Sad but true.

But the convenience of TWS is almost priceless, especially while exercising.
Plus most smartphones losing the headphone jack is still sad, steering us all on the quest to find the "perfect" TWS buds.


----------



## tiagopinto

C_Lindbergh said:


> Can we make separate threads for TWS adapters/IEMS and actual TWS earbuds?
> 
> This prearticular thread is becoming extremely long as well.



Sorry. Don’t agree. I know lately a lot of talk has been had for IEMs but that’s because, while we wait for higher resolution in Bluetooth, the “adapters” are here. The connecting info here is soooo useful. 

And the main subject is and will be TWS. 

Just my opinion. Thanks.


----------



## SilverEars (Feb 16, 2022)

tiagopinto said:


> Sorry. Don’t agree. I know lately a lot of talk has been had for IEMs but that’s because, while we wait for higher resolution in Bluetooth, the “adapters” are here. The connecting info here is soooo useful.
> 
> And the main subject is and will be TWS.
> 
> Just my opinion. Thanks.


It is what it is.  No sane person would start on page 1 go through this thread.  Search is your friend.  Anyway, TWS tech improves over time so most recent info is of interest.

It does make sense to split up adapters just to organize if better.  I know it's not gonna happen though.


----------



## tiagopinto (Feb 16, 2022)

SilverEars said:


> It is what it is.  No sane person would start on page 1 go through this thread.  Search is your friend.  Anyway, TWS tech improves over time so most recent info is of interest.
> 
> It does make sense to split up adapters just to organize if better.  I know it's not gonna happen though.



Hopefully no one splits it up.

I was away for a while so I’m reading through the last 200 pages. Halfway through now. It’s like a TWS and headphones lover dream novel for me!

Edit: Oh, and I’ve read it all from the start, because I was here almost from the start. The epic goes on.


----------



## Ceeluh7

tiagopinto said:


> Are the MMCX to 2 pin adapters, you’re using, like this?


I haven't seen these. They look smaller then the OE Audio adapters.


----------



## tiagopinto

Ceeluh7 said:


> I haven't seen these. They look smaller then the OE Audio adapters.



Here’s the link if you need further info. They look good and tiny. But these are on Amazon Germany...

https://www.amazon.de/-/en/gp/product/B092D6MQV4/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?smid=AASEEGAQR7G3R&psc=1


----------



## Ceeluh7

SaveTheMantaRays said:


> I have not listened to wired IEMs in a while, but I decided to last night.
> I listened to all of my TWS buds as well, ranging from $30-$300 each.
> The listening experience of $60 wired IEMs still blow all of the TWS out of the water.
> I stopped believing that awhile ago, but the test proved it. Sad but true.
> ...


Very true... Wired is the tops in fidelity. I can say for sure that wireless devices such as the IFi Go Blu and qudelix 5k, fiio btr5 really bridge the gap as far as actual fidelity goes. There is almost no difference. Even adapters are so very close. Just wait until better dac/amps are put inside these guys... There will be very little difference. Fiio is the closest I've heard to a big wide soundstage with dynamics across the spectrum and balanced throughout. Tws has a ways to go but truthfully you can still very much enjoy your music and hear your music in a satisfying way. Some are better than others and it's a joy to find a tws set that sounds really really good and has features and a nice compact lil case... So convenient like you said. I love it all man.


----------



## Ceeluh7

tiagopinto said:


> Here’s the link if you need further info. They look good and tiny. But these are on Amazon Germany...
> 
> https://www.amazon.de/-/en/gp/product/B092D6MQV4/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?smid=AASEEGAQR7G3R&psc=1


I appreciate that, thank you


----------



## SaveTheMantaRays

Can anyone help??
Fiil T1 XS vs Earfun Free Mini?

And then how much better is the Earfun Free Pro 2 ?


----------



## Tommy C

SaveTheMantaRays said:


> Can anyone help??
> Fiil T1 XS vs Earfun Free Mini?
> 
> And then how much better is the Earfun Free Pro 2 ?


I have the T1XS. They are very good and come with a solid app for EQ and some other features. I don’t think the Earfun have an app.


----------



## samandhi

Caipirina said:


> I am still pretty torn about what I think about those LinkBuds ... I was kinda ready this morning to travel to Akihabara in hopes that at 10AM e-earphone would have them already ... but then I saw the first YT videos ... and well .. my enthusiasm waned a bit, I especially scoffed at this 'sustainable made from recycled plastic', while at the same time they have sent out those single use press-kit boxes for extra WOW youtube unboxing videos ... that rubbed me kinda wrong.
> Thinking a bit more clearly ... would I really spend 180$ on a no-ANC, no AptX / LDAC bud, just because it is new, shiny, different and SONY (yes, still, I probably would, but with a pause) ... and I keep coming back to comparing them to my Aftershokz ... would they be a could replacement for those ... (not that they need replacing) ...
> 
> Well, I will check if any of the big electronic shops i might come across tomorrow have them out to try ... bit confused that Amazon.JP does not feature them yet .... they might do the US market first? We shall see
> ...


Nope, no FB for me (haven't visited my account in years now LOL). But the thread on here regarding earbuds (of all types, much like this thread) is heavily visited by many, and is actually longer than this one (who would have thought that possible) at 4k(ish). I DO get what you are saying about buying too much. I am in that boat too! 


tiagopinto said:


> Sorry. Don’t agree. I know lately a lot of talk has been had for IEMs but that’s because, while we wait for higher resolution in Bluetooth, the “adapters” are here. The connecting info here is soooo useful.
> 
> And the main subject is and will be TWS.
> 
> Just my opinion. Thanks.


Amen brother! If an IEM is being hooked up to wireless, IMO it falls into the category of the title of this thread, which is NOT TWS, but "Going fully Wireless IEMs. Too soon? Or are we there yet?" Of course, this is all my opinion also, and I could be totally off base here. As for myself, I love this thread for the very reason that it has a versatility of things offered here. I have bought more than one TWS, and IEM because I saw it on here. If it gets split, I would still follow both, but I wouldn't like it as much. 


SilverEars said:


> It is what it is.  No sane person would start on page 1 go through this thread.  Search is your friend.  Anyway, TWS tech improves over time so most recent info is of interest.
> 
> It does make sense to split up adapters just to organize if better.  I know it's not gonna happen though.


I am totally insane then............ I have read every page from the very start. I have also read all 4k(ish) pages of the earbuds thread. When I throw in, I am all in I guess. LOL


----------



## Ceeluh7

Amazon US has the Tin Hifi T3+ on Lightning Deal for $58 at the moment. It is a more lively moondrop aria with almost the exact tonality. 47% claimed at the moment


----------



## Caipirina

SilverEars said:


> The day when TWS becomes ideal all in one that does most things that switches automatically with perfect intuition is  the day I'm looking forward to!


Amen to that! 

Recently I am getting the most annoying, opposite-of-intuitive multipoint kerfuffles: I.e. I am happily listening to music from my iPhone on my ATHs .. when the music stops and I see that the Airpods have hijacked the connection .. WHILE STILL IN CASE ... 

Or even just Airpods and mac / iPhone ... sometimes it switches between devices for no apparent reason .. or i cannot get it to switch when I want it .. i.e. by stopping music on one device and then start on the other ... 

The case of 'in-case airpods' hijackings has become especially annoying lately ...


----------



## pack66

SaveTheMantaRays said:


> Can anyone help??
> Fiil T1 XS vs Earfun Free Mini?
> 
> And then how much better is the Earfun Free Pro 2 ?


I had the t1xs up until recently when I decided to test its limits in the washer. I can confirm they are relatively waterproof but unfortunately only with the right bud as I can't find the left. Almost bought a second pair, but decided to try something different and am waiting for my new AKG n400's to arrive ($48 @akg.com).

Enjoyed the sound a lot. Stayed in my ears during a few runs for minutes at a time, but I probably could've gone for a bigger tip and they would've been fine. 

Didn't care for the touch controls, but recently installed the app and it allowed for more adjustments to sensitivity but I didn't get a chance to dial it in. The EQ in the app looked to be good. 

Overall, would definitely recommend them!


----------



## tiagopinto

chinmie said:


> Now my BT20S Pro features "EQ changes"



Great album!


----------



## Tjdx (Feb 16, 2022)

SaveTheMantaRays said:


> Can anyone help??
> Fiil T1 XS vs Earfun Free Mini?
> 
> And then how much better is the Earfun Free Pro 2 ?


I got the Earfun Free Mini for my wife and she like them a lot. I found the sound to lack volume, she find the volume ok, what is weird because my hears tend to be more sensitive and she is more "deaf" ¿maybe she is getting a nice and better fit?. The sound for what they cost me is pretty good. (19.99 USD)

Regarding the Fiil I havent listen to them (I do have the T1 XS on my wish list) but after reading this review (see link) from Scarbid I was looking to find and maybe get the T1 Lite.

https://www.scarbir.com/tws/fiil-t1-lite-review

But I didnt find them on Amazon, so Im currently waiting for the SoundPeats Mini Pro to arrive.


----------



## pack66

Tjdx said:


> I got the Earfun Free Mini for my wife and she like them a lot. I found the sound to lack volume, she find the volume ok, what is weird because my hears tend to be more sensitive and she is more "deaf" ¿maybe she is getting a nice and better fit?. The sound for what they cost me is pretty good. (19.99 USD)
> 
> Regarding the Fiil I havent listen to them (I do have the T1 XS on my wish list) but after reading this review (see link) from Scarbid I was looking to find and maybe get the T1 Lite.
> 
> ...


Same with me and the T1Lite... only Aliexpress for now.


----------



## tiagopinto

erockg said:


> I don't know.  I'm one of the few that enjoy the thread for what it is.  The header at the top is wrong.  Fully wireless IEM?  It's a broad title IMO.  More like - Truly Wireless IEMs.  Whether it's an IEM with an adapter or TWS buds, I'm here.  If I need to Search, I search.  I do it all the time.  Most of the regulars know what the end game buds are at this point - There is and never will be an end game.  Also, most folks on this thread reply to anyone and everyone who asks a question.  We're all here to help one another, in what little ways we can.  That's the fun.  So, you can split hairs and say, and IEM with an adapter isn't a TWS, or this should be a TWS buds only thread, but I respectfully disagree.  It's truly wireless, fully wireless IEM, whatever thread.  Don't get me wrong, I completely get what some of you are saying.  I'm just easy.  Easy like Su-  Yeah, I'll stop.



Fully, fully agree.


----------



## Phaethon

tiagopinto said:


> Fully, fully agree.


I always interpreted it as the newest ways to make in-ear monitors wire-free. Or wire-less. I’ve got all the Bluetooth adapters I can shake a stick at. I am looking for the best IEMs for those adapters. My experience is that all of these combos beat my Fokus Pros hands down. But whenever I see a question on one of the dozen or so TWS I’ve owned, I’m happy to share my experience and opinion!


----------



## tiagopinto

darveniza said:


> Due to work, reports,etc. Spent the comparing some of my TWS units and played around with them . Today I rotated the Nuarl N10, Grell,Audio Technica ATHCW50 , Victor FH1000, B&O EQ, Soundcore L3, Technics AZ60, Sony XM4. Apologies for model typos
> 
> Just from today
> 
> ...



That photo is simply amazing. Congrats!


----------



## regancipher

Pre-ordered the Sony donuts 🍩


----------



## Tjdx

pack66 said:


> Same with me and the T1Lite... only Aliexpress for now.



I personally havent use even once Aliexpress I did use fasttech for other stuff (non audio related) the problem with Aliexpress here is that too many people buy from them and my national postal service (Im not located in the states btw) kinda suck an tend to be either super slow or they lost stuff also I have to deal with taxes and with them is cumbersome (gotta go phisically to a store etc) other option will be sent stuff from Aliexpress to my address in the state and then use the forward service to send it over here but then gain when things are not that important I prefer not to do it and I can wait.


----------



## Tjdx

regancipher said:


> Pre-ordered the Sony donuts 🍩


Let us know your opinion! I cant imagine wearing those but maybe is the right gear for the right ocassion / use.

Also I still have on my watch list a kickstarter project to see if they deliver.

https://www.sonobo.co.uk/


----------



## jmwant

tiagopinto said:


> That photo is simply amazing. Congrats!


Huge collection! You can use one for everyday and still won't have to repeat one in a month!


----------



## jmwant

regancipher said:


> Pre-ordered the Sony donuts 🍩


These looks very interesting, let us know your opinions।


----------



## erockg

I'm still listening to these Moondrop Sparks but they're definitely worth the price.  As always with Moondrop, you get a huge value with their buds.  These sound great.  The app is crude, but it did manage to let me update the firmware, choose and EQ preset and then change the touch/tap controls.  NO volume control which annoys me, but the sound does make up for it.  In a quiet environment the mics seem fine for calls.  Volume could be louder but you can get there if you go up to 80-90%.  Probably not needed for most.  Soundstage is excellent.  Balanced.  Has some sub-bass punch.  I chose the Bass preset for a little more oomph and it's not overwhelming at all.  Still tip rolling and it's been a bitch.  They're incredibly light and look like IEMs.


----------



## Ceeluh7

erockg said:


> I'm still listening to these Moondrop Sparks but they're definitely worth the price.  As always with Moondrop, you get a huge value with their buds.  These sound great.  The app is crude, but it did manage to let me update the firmware, choose and EQ preset and then change the touch/tap controls.  NO volume control which annoys me, but the sound does make up for it.  In a quiet environment the mics seem fine for calls.  Volume could be louder but you can get there if you go up to 80-90%.  Probably not needed for most.  Soundstage is excellent.  Balanced.  Has some sub-bass punch.  I chose the Bass preset for a little more oomph and it's not overwhelming at all.  Still tip rolling and it's been a bitch.  They're incredibly light and look like IEMs.


Ya these have very nice tonality. I can't stand the lack of volume controls. You are right they are very balanced, they did the typical harmanish tuning although these may be a hair brighter than that. They are a good set minus a few quirks


----------



## clerkpalmer (Feb 16, 2022)

Quick impressions of the Philips:

- sound is excellent. Up there with the best. Slightly warm, bass is punchy but tight. Stellar highs. I’d have to do some back to backs with the EQ and Pi7 on sound to pick a favorite.

- ANC, better than average but not in same league as Sony, Apple or Bose.

- Build is premium. Case is metal and leather. Very high end. The case and buds are shaped so much like the XM3 it almost seems like perhaps they licensed them.

- The worst part is the suspect fit. No wings, no stabilizers. Forget using these while active. They are for using while staying put. Guessing compromises were made for the 10mm driver and BA driver, large battery and LDAC support. Can’t have it all I guess.

- App is good. A few sound profiles. ANC settings. Fast and quick software update.

Overall if you don’t need a rock solid fit and want an fun but still balanced sound, they are pretty solid. The xm4 is probably a better all arounder but I’d give the edge to the Philips for sq.


----------



## darveniza

tiagopinto said:


> That photo is simply amazing. Congrats!


My wife disagrees 😉


----------



## Juturna

Would you all recommend the Fiio UTWS3 for $120-ish or the Shure TW2 (without the Aonic/SE215) b-stock for $160-ish (ish because i'm loosely converting local currency to USD) or maybe even the Shure TW2 with the Aonic 215 for $180? 

I wish I could get at least the Fiio cheaper than that, but for some reason Amazon in my country doesn't stock it, and ordering from the UK or the US will mean that I will pay some mighty import tax if i'm unlucky which makes it PROBABLY not worth it (****ing Brexit... otherwise UK would have been great to order from), I seem to recall Amazon Spain also having it for around €80-90 but I don't know Spanish and it seems like you can't get the amazon app in English if you're on the Spanish storefront for some reason so i'm not sure how that would pan out, seems like a hassle.

I would start with the KZ AZ09 Pro first to test if I even enjoy using Bluetooth adapters, but for some reason it seems pretty much impossible to find anywhere to order them from within the EU. I can only find the AZ09 and AZ10 here, and from what I understood those only use AAC or SBC? 

Also, need to call out Amazon on being so crap here where I'm from. I can order plenty of things from Amazon Germany to my location (and i'm not in Germany fyi) that aren't available in the local Amazon storefront, and overall the stuff that we have in our store is usually more expensive and more limited in number of items.


----------



## Phaethon

Juturna said:


> Would you all recommend the Fiio UTWS3 for $120-ish or the Shure TW2 (without the Aonic/SE215) b-stock for $160-ish (ish because i'm loosely converting local currency to USD) or maybe even the Shure TW2 with the Aonic 215 for $180?
> 
> I wish I could get at least the Fiio cheaper than that, but for some reason Amazon in my country doesn't stock it, and ordering from the UK or the US will mean that I will pay some mighty import tax if i'm unlucky which makes it PROBABLY not worth it (****ing Brexit... otherwise UK would have been great to order from), I seem to recall Amazon Spain also having it for around €80-90 but I don't know Spanish and it seems like you can't get the amazon app in English if you're on the Spanish storefront for some reason so i'm not sure how that would pan out, seems like a hassle.
> 
> ...


I have had all those and returned all except the TW2s (sans Aonic 215s). I found they all have some deficiencies (not the least, a disconnection issue in the UTWS5s). The Shures have rock solid connection, fine sound, an ambient mode and a great app. 
I might suggest that if it meets your use needs, consider a bluetooth dac/amp. i have a few and use them in different settings. The iFi go Blu is my daily for my commute and when I have to write for work. The tiny unit fits on the IEM cable and is connected to my phone in my pocket or bag via Bluetooth. I roll the cable to the length I want, and use the twist tie, then drop the unit into my breast pocket. It has a volume knob (so I don’t have to fetch my phone), balanced and unbalanced outputs, and an effects button for a touch extra bass. The Bluetooth is awesome because I can connect with my iPhone without having to use the dongle rat’s nest Apple requires. 
My TWS priorities have become quality over sound. This arrangement gives the best sound in my experience and I don’t have to figure out between Sony xm4s, B&O EQs, and the B&W PI7s which of them is the least worst sound (the answer actually is the outstanding Fokus Pro). 
Get what matches your use probabilities and priorities and be sure to give some time to the music!


----------



## jant71




----------



## C_Lindbergh

jant71 said:


>


Let's hope they also got an transparency mode, and that's its easy to switch between them. 

But this OEM doesn't have a dealer in Europe right?


----------



## nekonhime

jant71 said:


>


Now I will wait for fokus anc


----------



## clerkpalmer

jant71 said:


>


Cool.


----------



## nekonhime

C_Lindbergh said:


> Let's hope they also got an transparency mode, and that's its easy to switch between them.
> 
> But this OEM doesn't have a dealer in Europe right?


https://www.google.com/amp/s/manuals.plus/noble/falcon-anc-true-wireless-earbuds-manual/amp
They have the hear through mode so it should be the same as transparency mode right?


----------



## jant71

nekonhime said:


> Now I will wait for fokus anc


Well, yes it is a single driver and the quote from them is "good sound". Not meant to run with the Focus on that front.

I have a question. I see a few models talking about aptX Lossless and also a few saying aptX Adaptive Snapdragon sound. I'm guessing the one is an in between but not quite Loseless. Wonder if anyone has any experience with Snapdragon sound Adaptive yet vs. regular Adaptive yet?

Anyway the Noble do the SS Adaptive but not Lossless like the new Monster models.


----------



## nekonhime

jant71 said:


> Well, yes it is a single driver and the quote from them is "good sound". Not meant to run with the Focus on that front.
> 
> I have a question. I see a few models talking about aptX Lossless and also a few saying aptX Adaptive Snapdragon sound. I'm guessing the one is an in between but not quite Loseless. Wonder if anyone has any experience with Snapdragon sound Adaptive yet vs. regular Adaptive yet?
> 
> Anyway the Noble do the SS Adaptive but not Lossless like the new Monster models.


Tbh, when I change my phone from rog 2 to rog 5s, the sound change to the better plus the volume became better (snapdragon chip help with that) about the LL which stream in lower frequency to make the connection stable and the adaptive still vary depend on your phone output, so I will say the snapdragon chip help the earbuds sound better because they can be able to stream at a higher bit rate and frequency, and have better connection just like how airpods sound like sht in android phone compared to iphone. 
https://audioxpress.com/news/qualcomm-unveils-snapdragon-sound-end-to-end-audio-system


----------



## Ceeluh7

jant71 said:


>


Ya I do remember the unfinished version in a post awhile back here. These shells being identicle to the Tronsmart Onyx Prime's Shell. While we obviously know that the Internals will be a monumental upgrade from those budget buds I can say from experience that this shell type have an odd fit... At least with me. I don't know 100% that they did use the same shells with cosmetic differences but they have at every set in the past. Not that that matters either. I am still intrigued for sure as anything Noble Audio does is done so well


----------



## FLN Luco

I plan to use a *Wireless IEMs* to study. That means I'm going to use it with calm piano music at very low volumes, so *I need as little "Floor Noise" as possible*.

I think in some options:

KZ AZ09 PRO + Kato
TRN BT30 + Kato
Buds Pro
Other option
What is the best option (considering only the "*Floor Noise*")?
*please disregard the sound quality


----------



## Phaethon

FLN Luco said:


> I plan to use a *Wireless IEMs* to study. That means I'm going to use it with calm piano music at very low volumes, so *I need as little "Floor Noise" as possible*.
> 
> I think in some options:
> 
> ...


My experience with the TRNs is that there is zero room for any kind of IEMs in the case. Whichever connection you use, MMCX or 2 pin, the constant pulling the units off every time will break things down quickly. I haven’t got the KZs to compare


----------



## erockg

FLN Luco said:


> I plan to use a *Wireless IEMs* to study. That means I'm going to use it with calm piano music at very low volumes, so *I need as little "Floor Noise" as possible*.
> 
> I think in some options:
> 
> ...





Phaethon said:


> My experience with the TRNs is that there is zero room for any kind of IEMs in the case. Whichever connection you use, MMCX or 2 pin, the constant pulling the units off every time will break things down quickly. I haven’t got the KZs to compare


Yep, stay away from the TRN.  Not worth it.  My IEMs didn't fit in the case and you had to crank them for good, not great, sound.  The KZ AZ09 Pro need to be hacked to fit the Kato.  See my pics somewhere on this chain.  FiiO for the win here, but they won't fit the Kato too without cutting off the metal ring at the bottom and filing the plastic.  You could get the MMCX version and then a MMCX to 2 Pin adapter.  Works well.  So, my recommend is the UTWS5 or UTWS3 with an MMCX to 2 Pin adapter to the Kato. Should work like a charm and fit in the case perfect.  Oh, one other option is the Shure TW2 adapters with the above MMCX to 2 Pin adapter.  Great too.


----------



## Tommy C

Juturna said:


> Would you all recommend the Fiio UTWS3 for $120-ish or the Shure TW2 (without the Aonic/SE215) b-stock for $160-ish (ish because i'm loosely converting local currency to USD) or maybe even the Shure TW2 with the Aonic 215 for $180?
> 
> I wish I could get at least the Fiio cheaper than that, but for some reason Amazon in my country doesn't stock it, and ordering from the UK or the US will mean that I will pay some mighty import tax if i'm unlucky which makes it PROBABLY not worth it (****ing Brexit... otherwise UK would have been great to order from), I seem to recall Amazon Spain also having it for around €80-90 but I don't know Spanish and it seems like you can't get the amazon app in English if you're on the Spanish storefront for some reason so i'm not sure how that would pan out, seems like a hassle.
> 
> ...


I have the Shure TW2 and they are excellent. Zero issues and work as they should. 
I was curious about the FiiO but my local audio store was pretty weary recommending them due to some glitches and no one knows if it’s hardware or software issues. Similar issues to what people here had reported.
I purchased the TW2 with the SE215 Special Edition and while the 215 aren’t technically the best they produce a very good sound and tonality.


----------



## erockg

erockg said:


> Picked up the Nothing Ear (1).  Better than I expected.  We shall see after a few days.  Here are a few pics for size comparison.


Just a follow up here.  Game over.  Sending them back.  I stupidly (not really) picked up another pair of the AKG N400 and they just crush the Nothing Ear 1.  No sense in keeping the NE1 now.  Buh-bye.  Fun while it lasted.


----------



## erockg

Ceeluh7 said:


> Ya these have very nice tonality. I can't stand the lack of volume controls. You are right they are very balanced, they did the typical harmanish tuning although these may be a hair brighter than that. They are a good set minus a few quirks


Yeah, these days, no idea why you'd leave out Volume Control.  I emailed Moondrop about it.  Probably won't hear back.  They're bright with the Balanced EQ but the Basshead setting warms them up.  Listened to the new Maiden album and they did well.  Put some tips that came with the Fokus Pros on them and that helped the fit big time.  Talk to me in a week


----------



## erockg

Ceeluh7 said:


> Ya I do remember the unfinished version in a post awhile back here. These shells being identicle to the Tronsmart Onyx Prime's Shell. While we obviously know that the Internals will be a monumental upgrade from those budget buds I can say from experience that this shell type have an odd fit... At least with me. I don't know 100% that they did use the same shells with cosmetic differences but they have at every set in the past. Not that that matters either. I am still intrigued for sure as anything Noble Audio does is done so well


Here's the manual: https://manuals.plus/noble/falcon-anc-true-wireless-earbuds-manual


----------



## Phaethon

I had a bunch of Amazon credit and decided to go in the higher price range than I’d been shopping in. Read some and watched some YT reviews and pulled the trigger on the Ikko OH7. Oh my oh my oh lord. I had no idea and don’t have the words. Every aspect is to die for, in my ears. It has luscious bass (see what the YT review by Z says about that); the mids including vocals are forward as they should be; the highs sparkle and seem to have a world of air above. The separation is incredible and the soundstage is deep, wide and seems to be beyond the instruments. Everything is as right as I can imagine. I’ve heard IEMs in this price range and they are fantastic. This is transcendent. 
The pictures make them look enormous and they are tiny tiny tiny. They disappear in my ears.


----------



## Ceeluh7

Phaethon said:


> I had a bunch of Amazon credit and decided to go in the higher price range than I’d been shopping in. Read some and watched some YT reviews and pulled the trigger on the Ikko OH7. Oh my oh my oh lord. I had no idea and don’t have the words. Every aspect is to die for, in my ears. It has luscious bass (see what the YT review by Z says about that); the mids including vocals are forward as they should be; the highs sparkle and seem to have a world of air above. The separation is incredible and the soundstage is deep, wide and seems to be beyond the instruments. Everything is as right as I can imagine. I’ve heard IEMs in this price range and they are fantastic. This is transcendent.
> The pictures make them look enormous and they are tiny tiny tiny. They disappear in my ears.


Dude I've tried those and yes you are right. They are a bit luxurious looking for me but damn if they don't replay music well. Which.... They should. Enjoy man


----------



## Juturna (Feb 17, 2022)

Phaethon said:


> I have had all those and returned all except the TW2s (sans Aonic 215s). I found they all have some deficiencies (not the least, a disconnection issue in the UTWS5s). The Shures have rock solid connection, fine sound, an ambient mode and a great app.
> I might suggest that if it meets your use needs, consider a bluetooth dac/amp. i have a few and use them in different settings. The iFi go Blu is my daily for my commute and when I have to write for work. The tiny unit fits on the IEM cable and is connected to my phone in my pocket or bag via Bluetooth. I roll the cable to the length I want, and use the twist tie, then drop the unit into my breast pocket. It has a volume knob (so I don’t have to fetch my phone), balanced and unbalanced outputs, and an effects button for a touch extra bass. The Bluetooth is awesome because I can connect with my iPhone without having to use the dongle rat’s nest Apple requires.
> My TWS priorities have become quality over sound. This arrangement gives the best sound in my experience and I don’t have to figure out between Sony xm4s, B&O EQs, and the B&W PI7s which of them is the least worst sound (the answer actually is the outstanding Fokus Pro).
> Get what matches your use probabilities and priorities and be sure to give some time to the music!


Thanks for the tip! I don't feel like a DAC/Amp fits my use case that much. I mean it technically might but I honestly can't deal with wires on my earbuds after using exclusively TWS earbuds the last 4 years. I've pretty much cut the cord for good unless we're talking about 100% stationary, home-listening with over-ear cans, and that's still a MAYBE. But like I said, I appreciate the tip anyway.
I'm really happy with the sound on my Technics AZ60's when it comes to sound, I've tried so many pairs that I didn't enjoy (Sony XM4's, Devialet Gemini among those) but these are just so damn nice in my opinion. I would get the Fokus Pro but living in Europe means that they're A LOT harder to come by, so I want to try the TW Bluetooth Adapter game, so I think its Fiio UTWS3 or Shure TW2's for me all the way then.



Tommy C said:


> I have the Shure TW2 and they are excellent. Zero issues and work as they should.
> I was curious about the FiiO but my local audio store was pretty weary recommending them due to some glitches and no one knows if it’s hardware or software issues. Similar issues to what people here had reported.
> I purchased the TW2 with the SE215 Special Edition and while the 215 aren’t technically the best they produce a very good sound and tonality.


Thanks, hadn't heard that about the UTWS3, only that the UTWS5 seems to have some issues? Maybe I got that backwards though.

Yeah, I mean I don't specifically want the SE215s, I still feel like it's a no-brainer when they're like $20 more expensive with the SE215s than they are without.


----------



## nekonhime

erockg said:


> Just a follow up here.  Game over.  Sending them back.  I stupidly (not really) picked up another pair of the AKG N400 and they just crush the Nothing Ear 1.  No sense in keeping the NE1 now.  Buh-bye.  Fun while it lasted.


Do you need to eq the sound of the N400nc or you just enjoy the out of box sound?


----------



## erockg

nekonhime said:


> Do you need to eq the sound of the N400nc or you just enjoy the out of box sound?


The EQ does pump up the db, but it's really up to you.  OOB sound is great, I prefer to _slightly_ EQ them.


----------



## nekonhime

erockg said:


> The EQ does pump up the db, but it's really up to you.  OOB sound is great, I prefer to _slightly_ EQ them.


Do you mind to share your eq map?


----------



## erockg

nekonhime said:


> Do you mind to share your eq map?


Sure.  Here you go.


----------



## nekonhime

erockg said:


> Sure.  Here you go.


Thanks. I just pushed everything up lol.


----------



## erockg

For those still interested in the Devialet Gemini, Amazon just dropped the price $60 https://www.amazon.com/Devialet-LX6...uPWNsaWNrUmVkaXJlY3QmZG9Ob3RMb2dDbGljaz10cnVl


----------



## SilverEars

erockg said:


> For those still interested in the Devialet Gemini, Amazon just dropped the price $60 https://www.amazon.com/Devialet-LX608-Gemini/dp/B08KSM9W7X/ref=sr_1_17_sspa?crid=3SH1O4V93830B&keywords=shure+headphone&qid=1645123468&refinements=p_85:2470955011&rnid=2470954011&rps=1&s=electronics&sprefix=shure+headphone,electronics,165&sr=1-17-spons&psc=1&smid=A2OBIE6HZZFQH6&spLa=ZW5jcnlwdGVkUXVhbGlmaWVyPUFNODk5NU8zS0tNUDgmZW5jcnlwdGVkSWQ9QTAwNTQ4NjgxUVEzTklISjFCM1k2JmVuY3J5cHRlZEFkSWQ9QTAyMzA1NzE4UkxST0hEQ1UyNzMmd2lkZ2V0TmFtZT1zcF9tdGYmYWN0aW9uPWNsaWNrUmVkaXJlY3QmZG9Ob3RMb2dDbGljaz10cnVl


Guud.  It's about the right price.  Still won't touch it.  I don't collect stuff I won't use.


----------



## erockg

SilverEars said:


> Guud.  It's about the right price.  Still won't touch it.  I don't collect stuff I won't use.


SO tempting, but yeah, I'm with you.  Too many other options over here these days.  Still, for those in the market, the price is right, Bob.


----------



## Phaethon

Ceeluh7 said:


> Dude I've tried those and yes you are right. They are a bit luxurious looking for me but damn if they don't replay music well. Which.... They should. Enjoy man


It’s probably the look that will be the deal breaker for me, but wow the sound, fit, accessories… just wow


----------



## Tommy C

Juturna said:


> Thanks for the tip! I don't feel like a DAC/Amp fits my use case that much. I mean it technically might but I honestly can't deal with wires on my earbuds after using exclusively TWS earbuds the last 4 years. I've pretty much cut the cord for good unless we're talking about 100% stationary, home-listening with over-ear cans, and that's still a MAYBE. But like I said, I appreciate the tip anyway.
> I'm really happy with the sound on my Technics AZ60's when it comes to sound, I've tried so many pairs that I didn't enjoy (Sony XM4's, Devialet Gemini among those) but these are just so damn nice in my opinion. I would get the Fokus Pro but living in Europe means that they're A LOT harder to come by, so I want to try the TW Bluetooth Adapter game, so I think its Fiio UTWS3 or Shure TW2's for me all the way then.
> 
> 
> ...


The SE215 SE sound very very similar wireless to when using a cable and that's a pretty high praise. 
With that being said, The FiiO UTWS5 supposed to have more oomph but according to reports here and from my local audio shop, they have some intermittent issues so the UTWS3 might be the better path but there is no ambient mode with FiiO so to me with all that being put into the equation I would go for the TW2 with the SE215 as you can always sell them at cost.


----------



## Ceeluh7

Phaethon said:


> It’s probably the look that will be the deal breaker for me, but wow the sound, fit, accessories… just wow


Agreed


----------



## Ceeluh7

Tommy C said:


> The SE215 SE sound very very similar wireless to when using a cable and that's a pretty high praise.
> With that being said, The FiiO UTWS5 supposed to have more oomph but according to reports here and from my local audio shop, they have some intermittent issues so the UTWS3 might be the better path but there is no ambient mode with FiiO so to me with all that being put into the equation I would go for the TW2 with the SE215 as you can always sell them at cost.


The Utws3 is very nice and still has plenty of oomph. The utws5 is just awesome man. It does have ambient mode and it isn't bad at all either. I still have yet to try the TW2...


----------



## erockg

nekonhime said:


> Thanks. I just pushed everything up lol.


Mine just crapped out.  Static that won't go away even if I reset, repair, whatever.  Ugh.  Sending them back and will try again.


----------



## cresny

Ceeluh7 said:


> The Utws3 is very nice and still has plenty of oomph. The utws5 is just awesome man. It does have ambient mode and it isn't bad at all either. I still have yet to try the TW2...





Tommy C said:


> The SE215 SE sound very very similar wireless to when using a cable and that's a pretty high praise.
> With that being said, The FiiO UTWS5 supposed to have more oomph but according to reports here and from my local audio shop, they have some intermittent issues so the UTWS3 might be the better path but there is no ambient mode with FiiO so to me with all that being put into the equation I would go for the TW2 with the SE215 as you can always sell them at cost.


Maybe I'm lucky, but the UTWS5 is solid for me, very dependable. Actually, I did read the opposite where UTWS3 was supposed to have a finicky connection, but no experience there.


----------



## darveniza

And they have arrived


----------



## Caipirina

darveniza said:


> And they have arrived


There’s holes in your buds!


----------



## regancipher

darveniza said:


> And they have arrived


Aaaah you beat me to it , mine come next week


----------



## tiagopinto

musicphotolife said:


> I don't see any discussion on the LG TONE Free FP9 so I'd like to share my experience here. I reviewed it recently and it ended up as my new favourite true-wireless.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



These look nice. 

How have they been technically?

Could you compare their sound quality with the MT?

Thanks.


----------



## darveniza

tiagopinto said:


> These look nice.
> 
> How have they been technically?
> 
> ...


Right now I can get them to connect with my phone BT with no issue. The sound is surprisingly good I was expecting it be to be less , I am at 60% in an office and it works well. What I am having trouble with is with the Sony app it will not connect with these.


----------



## tiagopinto

guitarizt said:


> Oh man I've been eyeing the oh10. DIdn't see where ceeluh7 rec'ed them. I was gonna ask him what he'd recommend next. I just ordered the blon 3 and tanya. I still love the he01. Idk, something about the way it reacts to stuff and the sound sig. Also have my eye on the heart mirror. Just wish it was closer to 40 instead of 60.
> 
> The timeless fatigues me as well, and the way everything meshes together feels weird. Looks like the oh10 might be next for me. Maybe fh3 for a bit cheaper. The oh10 starts getting into blessing 2 territory for me.



This is where my questions start. I have the TW2s “almost” on the way, probably with the blue 215s.

I have the Rai Solo which I like quite a lot and I’ve been eyeing the Blessing 2 Dusk (VERY difficult to get for me vs the regular version) buuut I haven’t read much about their sound and connection to the Shure adapter. 

Now this OH10. The Kato. They sound pretty solid. Who’s the king (or kings) to pair with this adapter for around or less than 300 bucks?

@Ceeluh7 @erockg others who have these combos... thanks for your detailed help. How do they compare?

Thanks


----------



## samandhi

darveniza said:


> And they have arrived





regancipher said:


> Aaaah you beat me to it , mine come next week


Same. Monday for me.


----------



## xSDMx

I dunno what I'm missing, but the link buds seems really unappealing. I'd rather just have a solid ambient mode vs compromising on literally everything else for a novelty.


----------



## erockg

tiagopinto said:


> This is where my questions start. I have the TW2s “almost” on the way, probably with the blue 215s.
> 
> I have the Rai Solo which I like quite a lot and I’ve been eyeing the Blessing 2 Dusk (VERY difficult to get for me vs the regular version) buuut I haven’t read much about their sound and connection to the Shure adapter.
> 
> ...


Sadly, the BEST to pair with them because they're made for them are any of the Shure IEMs.  That said, I had the Kato on mine and they fit great with that mini MMCX to 2 Pin adapter I showed you.  I changed the setting within the Shure app to the SE215 setting.  It powered the Kato great!  Plus, those new Moondrop Spring Tips are awesome.  The OH10 was too big for TW2.  At least for my ears.  What happens is the IEM makes the arm of the TW2 too long and it doesn't wrap as well around some folks ears.  Had the Blessing 2 on them but the B2 and I'm sure the B2D have recessed 2 Pin connections so you'll need that above said adapter and the B2 and B2D are larger than a Shure IEM, so again, they'll make the arm of the TW2 too long.  Best to stick with an IEM that you know is small and will keep the arm of the Shure adapter short.  Like the Kato or probably the Starfield or Aria.  I'm sure there are others out there too.  Just haven't found them yet.  I'm actually in this predicament now.  I got the Thieaudio Monarch MK2 for my UTWS5s.  Sent back my Kato to offset the cost and very much have started to regret it.  Been searching for other options for the Shure TW2 with a native MMCX connection and a small form factor.  Not much out there that is stellar.  Or I just haven't found it yet.  Might end up getting those Kato again!


----------



## erockg

xSDMx said:


> I dunno what I'm missing, but the link buds seems really unappealing. I'd rather just have a solid ambient mode vs compromising on literally everything else for a novelty.






Mine are out for delivery (supposedly).  Will report back.  The honeymoon could be over very quickly.


----------



## darveniza

Just quick update on using link buds"

Case:

Pretty small 

Pocket Friendly
Fell of it is fine a bit slippery
Like that it has a latch

Earbuds

Fitting was really easy, used L size wings
Easy to adjust and did some jumping ,etc. They did not move
Have the gray color and they blend Ok
Use them for a couple of hours no discomfort,etc
App


Headphone connect only work on the IPAD for me, I cannot get the headphone connect on my android phone to not crash
Had to arrange settings in the IPAD and was able to use with a phone and the IPAD
Out of the box it comes in for double tap right to launch assistant
Organized it as R side is for play / pause; L side with Vol +/-
I dont tap the earbud and just tap my skin close to my ear, it works no issue
Sound


Sound is good for calls, no one stated anything and I had some background noise and other parties stated they did not hear anything. I was really concerned about the potential for sound qulaity but it is really surprising how people stated that I sounded very present and clear
Music sounds good for something with no tips and open. People in some reviews have been complaining about bass, not sure what is the drama about?? What are they comparing with a Sony or Ipod Pro, really is not the same !!!

Size:

Versus

Sony
Soundpeats Mini Pro
LG FP8
AKG400


----------



## Sam L

My quick impressions on the linkbuds

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/post-16822687


----------



## samandhi

xSDMx said:


> I dunno what I'm missing, but the link buds seems really unappealing. I'd rather just have a solid ambient mode vs compromising on literally everything else for a novelty.


For me they don't seem to be a novelty. I don't really care about all the supposed features as it were. I am in it because they, basically are wireless flathead earbuds. That is my reasoning for them. I can only hope they sound like a great pair of those. From the telling over on the earbuds thread they just might. 

I can say this from reading about them, if you are used to and want the bass from typical TWS (IEMs) then these probably won't be for you. The bass in general is NOT boosted like normal TWS (for outside environents) as far as I know. But that is fine with me. I have plenty of bass boosted IEMs/TWS that I can get those BT adaptors.


----------



## BooleanBones

nekonhime said:


> Now I will wait for fokus anc


The Noble folks will probably slap me up side the head, but you will likely never see this in the Fokus. The focus for the Fokus  is fairly feature less with an emphasis on sound. Pause music ambient would be awesome though.


----------



## BooleanBones

Caipirina said:


> There’s holes in your buds!


 bud holes


----------



## BooleanBones

darveniza said:


> Just quick update on using link buds"
> 
> Case:
> 
> ...


The XM4s look like monsters in this picture


----------



## Caipirina

BooleanBones said:


> bud holes


thought about going there with that pun


----------



## nekonhime

BooleanBones said:


> The Noble folks will probably slap me up side the head, but you will likely never see this in the Fokus. The focus for the Fokus  is fairly feature less with an emphasis on sound. Pause music ambient would be awesome though.


Well, we now have the falcon pro ang so the fokus ang isn't impossible lol. We shall see.


----------



## samandhi

Caipirina said:


> thought about going there with that pun


So, I wonder if these will be like donuts, where instead of throwing the hole cutouts away, they sell as "donut holes"?! Will Sony sell us those for $50 and call them revolutionary??


----------



## erockg (Feb 17, 2022)

Bud holes arrived.  Going to stick my ears in them for the evening.

Gotta admit, they’re goooood.


----------



## samandhi

erockg said:


> Bud holes arrived.  Going to stick my ears in them for the evening.
> 
> Gotta admit, they’re goooood.


Eagerly awaiting your impressions (and my set)...


----------



## mt877

samandhi said:


> So, I wonder if these will be like donuts, where instead of throwing the hole cutouts away, they sell as "donut holes"?! Will Sony sell us those for $50 and call them revolutionary??


Nope, due to miniaturization Sony will market them as hidden in ear hearing aids. Because they would be medical devices the asking price would be big bucks not $50.


----------



## Ceeluh7 (Feb 17, 2022)

tiagopinto said:


> This is where my questions start. I have the TW2s “almost” on the way, probably with the blue 215s.
> 
> I have the Rai Solo which I like quite a lot and I’ve been eyeing the Blessing 2 Dusk (VERY difficult to get for me vs the regular version) buuut I haven’t read much about their sound and connection to the Shure adapter.
> 
> ...


I'm sorry I just saw this. The very first thought I had would be the Fiio fd5. Read up in it. It is quite an impressive single DD, beryllium. It is pretty sensitive which makes for a great pairing with any of these adapters. I'll think about it more but I just saw this post...the fd5 is mmcx and small but a beast at the same time. Also I am thinking of sets around 300ish. There are some as well under that mark but I will stay around 300 with these

Also....

Bgvp DM8
Sennheiser ie300
Audiosense t800
Aune Jasper
Bgvp ns9

I'm focusing on mmcx connections... These are my initial thoughts... I'll get back on it tomorrow. There is just many more 2 pin connection sets anymore


----------



## erockg

samandhi said:


> Eagerly awaiting your impressions (and my set)...


They sound great for what they are.  Better than you can expect. And there is bass and sub bass. I did EQ them in the app.  Bass is light but there and decent.  Calls are great.  Zero issues on both ends.  Cheek taps work great and it’s nice to have volume control on one ear and play/pause on the other.  Case is tiny.  AirPods first Gen tiny.


----------



## guitarizt

Just got the blon 03. Really disappointed. Def not my thing for sound sig. Seems more in the ballpark of kz crn. My three least favs right now are kz crn, mele, and blon 03 in that order from least fav to most fav. Can't win em all. Something that sounds similar to this, but that I like a lot is the tanya.

I'm tempted by the cra next, but I feel like maybe I have too many cheap iems now.


----------



## Ceeluh7

guitarizt said:


> Just got the blon 03. Really disappointed. Def not my thing for sound sig. Seems more in the ballpark of kz crn. My three least favs right now are kz crn, mele, and blon 03 in that order from least fav to most fav. Can't win em all. Something that sounds similar to this, but that I like a lot is the tanya.
> 
> I'm tempted by the cra next, but I feel like maybe I have too many cheap iems now.


Haha... Ya it isn't for everyone. It seems you like a more harmanish sound. The Mele is the direct upgrade to the Blon 03. I didn't like the crn either. I will say that giving them a bit extra power and all of these mentioned need burned in for at least 50 hrs, but if you don't like the sound sig then we must move on.. Lol. The Cra is brighter up top with plenty of bass. The treble really extends well on that set which is not normal for a budget set. We will find what works for you man. To be honest I truthfully enjoy every sound sig except I don't like anything lacking at least a little bit of low end. I could give you rec's but for me I really enjoy different styles and tonalities and try to get different sounding iems mainly because my what I prefer changes by the day... If you like Tanya, which is a under $20 set that punches ridiculously higher than it's price. Tanya has bigger Bass but extends well in the treble region. Bigger mid bass than sub bass and warmer lower mids...thats a start


----------



## samandhi

guitarizt said:


> Just got the blon 03. Really disappointed. Def not my thing for sound sig. Seems more in the ballpark of kz crn. My three least favs right now are kz crn, mele, and blon 03 in that order from least fav to most fav. Can't win em all. Something that sounds similar to this, but that I like a lot is the tanya.
> 
> I'm tempted by the cra next, but I feel like maybe I have too many cheap iems now.


Yeah, it's tough to find what sounds really good to you, when you can't audition them first. I haven't heard any of the others on your list there, but I just got my CRA today, and I am really shocked at how good they sound. They ARE super bassy, but not Skullcandy/beats boosted. You can hear the rest of the music clearly. Some think they are a bit harsh up top sometimes, but I don't find that so, and I am sensitive to 3-5k area (of course anything above that I am not sensitive to). 

I think these will pair well with a great BT adaptor.


----------



## Ceeluh7

samandhi said:


> Yeah, it's tough to find what sounds really good to you, when you can't audition them first. I haven't heard any of the others on your list there, but I just got my CRA today, and I am really shocked at how good they sound. They ARE super bassy, but not Skullcandy/beats boosted. You can hear the rest of the music clearly. Some think they are a bit harsh up top sometimes, but I don't find that so, and I am sensitive to 3-5k area (of course anything above that I am not sensitive to).
> 
> I think these will pair well with a great BT adaptor.


Totally agree. Sensitive and play the whole mix well. It can be a polarizing set as some can't stand the Cra.. Like you mentioned but some really love it.


----------



## helmutcheese

I had the Flybuds C1, good battery/sound but I really do not like stem design buds.


Tribit MoveBuds H1​


----------



## samandhi

Ceeluh7 said:


> Totally agree. Sensitive and play the whole mix well. It can be a polarizing set as some can't stand the Cra.. Like you mentioned but some really love it.


I think it is going to really depend on what you are listening to with them. They aren't great at some things, but fantastic at others. TOTL killers? No, but who cares for $15?!  They certainly are a no brainer for the price. I have $100 IEMs that don't really sound as good overall. 

On the other hand, I have a few that punch in at much higher (still not for this price though), but for the price difference, the only ones I have heard that sound similar for a similar price was back in 2014 (I think??) in the Xiaomi Piston II. They were the first (commercially available) Beryllium drivers, and it showed. Also, they were one of the first to have buttons and mic that worked on android devices. They were around $15-$20 also (HERE). They really are pretty similar in sound, but don't have a detachable cable. The fit and finish though on the CRA, again for the price, is simply amazing. 

 I haven't been a bass-head for years, but these are end game for that purpose IMHO. They won't replace my high-end gear, but make perfect beaters, and when I want to thump... LOL Anyhow, enough gushing I suppose.


----------



## samandhi

helmutcheese said:


> I had the Flybuds C1, good battery/sound but I really do not like stem design buds.
> 
> 
> Tribit MoveBuds H1​



WOW! Those look unique for sure. Are those fans to cool your ears?


----------



## helmutcheese

No they are Floating Foil heads (electric razor) to shave your ear hair (when you get older like myself). 😉


----------



## The Jojo

cleg said:


> My video about Technics EAH-AZ60. In short: good modern TWS with ANC, LDAC and lots of tweakable features. Sound is also on the appropriate level. IMO — a good addition to "flagships" tier of True Wirless




A couple of weeks ago I wrote that while I love, love, LOVE the sound of my EAH-AZ60, they're really made for bigger ears. They look stellar, they sound exceptional, they're built well and come with a great app, but smaller ear canals like mine may suffer so much that I considered selling them. 

Then I tried something. 

My Jabra Elite 75t are still my go-to earbuds when it comes to comfort. They have those nice, very short silicone eartips that just about cover the entrance to your ear canal, especially the smallest ones. I just took those and forced them onto my EAH-AZ60 - the nozzle size is bigger, but with a bit of work they fit. 

And born were my new favorite IEMs! 

They sort of "float" in my ears now. I can hardly feel them. Fantastic sound, great stage, and now a wonderful fit. If you have any problem with your ear canal size you should try this.


----------



## Caipirina (Feb 18, 2022)

erockg said:


> Bud holes arrived.  Going to stick my ears in them for the evening.
> 
> Gotta admit, they’re goooood.


Darn, and choo-choo, here comes the train again!

Can't believe I still have to wait until 25th for release here ...

I can imagine using them here around the house when ppl constantly want to talk to me ... usually when I JUST got some IEMs to fit 100%
Also curious to hear for runners' impressions ...

Amazon here has them finally up for pre-order with 10% amzn pts ... hmmm ... tempting
(EDIT: my mind was weak and I caved in and darn, the amazon system is screwed ... when I try to pre-order, after the payment page, it tells me "
You cannot buy this item because it's out of stock​yep, that's why they call it pre-order? )

EDIT 2: ... (ok, but it does show up in my orders now)


----------



## guitarizt

Ceeluh7 said:


> Haha... Ya it isn't for everyone. It seems you like a more harmanish sound. The Mele is the direct upgrade to the Blon 03. I didn't like the crn either. I will say that giving them a bit extra power and all of these mentioned need burned in for at least 50 hrs, but if you don't like the sound sig then we must move on.. Lol. The Cra is brighter up top with plenty of bass. The treble really extends well on that set which is not normal for a budget set. We will find what works for you man. To be honest I truthfully enjoy every sound sig except I don't like anything lacking at least a little bit of low end. I could give you rec's but for me I really enjoy different styles and tonalities and try to get different sounding iems mainly because my what I prefer changes by the day... If you like Tanya, which is a under $20 set that punches ridiculously higher than it's price. Tanya has bigger Bass but extends well in the treble region. Bigger mid bass than sub bass and warmer lower mids...thats a start


Hmm interesting, I thought I hated harman curve. I'm not a fan of the galaxy line except the pros which are warmer, but even that isn't warm enough for me. I've been using my vidos a lot lately, they're great. I still have the fh3 with go blu in mind, but that's hitting a diff price tier than $20- level. I also like the he01 so much I've been wanting to try the he03, but having the same mental block where it's about 150 with better options out there now possibly.


samandhi said:


> Yeah, it's tough to find what sounds really good to you, when you can't audition them first. I haven't heard any of the others on your list there, but I just got my CRA today, and I am really shocked at how good they sound. They ARE super bassy, but not Skullcandy/beats boosted. You can hear the rest of the music clearly. Some think they are a bit harsh up top sometimes, but I don't find that so, and I am sensitive to 3-5k area (of course anything above that I am not sensitive to).
> 
> I think these will pair well with a great BT adaptor.


Thanks, I'll order the cra. Might get the dq6s as well.


----------



## guitarizt (Feb 18, 2022)

Just tried the leas on az09 pros. Not a fan. Sounds anemic. Tried with eq and still meh. Went back to utws3's to make sure it wasn't my memory being off, but they sound awesome with no eq. I hate to be that guy nitpicking dacs and amps, but yeah. Wired btr5 is best, but utws3's still get me to that happy place sound wise where I don't care so I don't feel that picky. Plus, tws.

[edit] Just remembered it has a high performance mode. Just tried that with the gain + treble boost option. It still sounds anemic. The magic is gone. It's like this is fm radio and the utws3 is cd. =....[


----------



## jant71

Any one for a TWS from these guys?


----------



## erockg

jant71 said:


> Any one for a TWS from these guys?


They look familiar.  
Palm Buds Pro, Lightweight and Comfortable True Wireless Noise Cancellation Earbuds, Deep Bass, 6-Microphones, Hybrid ANC, Ambient Mode, Clear Calls, IPX4 Water Resistant, 24h+ Playtime, Bluetooth 5
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B09J6NTHYY/ref=cm_sw_r_awdo_navT_a_RK1MGJ371K5N8SN94297


----------



## xSDMx

erockg said:


> They look familiar.
> Palm Buds Pro, Lightweight and Comfortable True Wireless Noise Cancellation Earbuds, Deep Bass, 6-Microphones, Hybrid ANC, Ambient Mode, Clear Calls, IPX4 Water Resistant, 24h+ Playtime, Bluetooth 5
> https://www.amazon.com/dp/B09J6NTHYY/ref=cm_sw_r_awdo_navT_a_RK1MGJ371K5N8SN94297


I swear I've seen that same shell used for like half a dozen different TWS sets.


----------



## helmutcheese (Feb 18, 2022)

AKG N400NC TWS​True Wireless Noise Cancelling Headphones

$47.99 each
$149.95 Save 68%

https://www.akg.com/Headphones/Earbuds/N400NCTWS-.html?dwvar_N400NCTWS-_color=Black-GLOBAL-Current


----------



## xSDMx

I want to see the N400NC vs the new Soundpeats Mini Pros. Similar feature set and price bracket (after discount). They seem like great budget choices.


----------



## Caipirina

helmutcheese said:


> AKG N400NC TWS​True Wireless Noise Cancelling Headphones
> 
> $47.99 each
> $149.95 Save 68%
> ...



If I could get them for THIS price … but seems this offer / free shipping is US only


----------



## Ceeluh7

xSDMx said:


> I want to see the N400NC vs the new Soundpeats Mini Pros. Similar feature set and price bracket (after discount). They seem like great budget choices.


I have the n400 coming today or tomorrow... I will def do a comparison


----------



## mt877

My set of Linkbuds should be arriving tomorrow. It was an easy decision to get em considering I knocked the cost down by combining Amazon gift card and award points towards the purchase. Total out of pocket... $76.00.


----------



## nekonhime

mt877 said:


> My set of Linkbuds should be arriving tomorrow. It was an easy decision to get em considering I knocked the cost down by combining Amazon gift card and award points towards the purchase. Total out of pocket... $76.00.


Wait, how you get the award point?


----------



## mt877

nekonhime said:


> Wait, how you get the award point?


There are a couple ways. Best way is to be an Amazon Prime member, then get the Amazon Prime Visa card. All purchases made on Amazon and paying with Amazon Prime Visa earns you 5% "cash back" points which you can use for Amazon purchases. This is what I did. Other way is to have a credit card which earns points and those points can be spent at Amazon. The 2nd way you'll probably earn less than 5%, but could be helpful to reduce your cost on things.


----------



## nekonhime

mt877 said:


> There are a couple ways. Best way is to be an Amazon Prime member, then get the Amazon Prime Visa card. All purchases made on Amazon and paying with Amazon Prime Visa earns you 5% "cash back" points which you can use for Amazon purchases. This is what I did. Other way is to have a credit card which earns points and those points can be spent at Amazon. The 2nd way you'll probably earn less than 5%, but could be helpful to reduce your cost on things.


Can I use the student visa debit card for that?


----------



## mt877

nekonhime said:


> Can I use the student visa debit card for that?


I'm not sure. I think most debit card don't have points. You should check with the bank or credit card company where you got your card.


----------



## erockg

xSDMx said:


> I want to see the N400NC vs the new Soundpeats Mini Pros. Similar feature set and price bracket (after discount). They seem like great budget choices.


The difference is the AKG are not supposed to be budget buds.  You're getting a $150 bud for $47 bucks.  It's a STEAL!  Highly recommend them.


----------



## darveniza

erockg said:


> The difference is the AKG are not supposed to be budget buds.  You're getting a $150 bud for $47 bucks.  It's a STEAL!  Highly recommend them.


Everyone also remember you are not getting 2022 technlogy these came in Korea in March of 2020 and became available around June 2020.

They are still very good, but have seen some people in other forums comapring them with B&O EQ and other which came out recently

We have to be fair with reviews, at $47 its an incredible buy


----------



## erockg

darveniza said:


> Everyone also remember you are not getting 2022 technlogy these came in Korea in March of 2020 and became available around June 2020.
> 
> They are still very good, but have seen some people in other forums comapring them with B&O EQ and other which came out recently
> 
> We have to be fair with reviews, at $47 its an incredible buy


Agreed.  I def do not think they compare to the EQs but, that's just my ears.  But... $47 vs $399 retail/$367 Amazon.  I'm crazy, I'd own them both.


----------



## nekonhime

erockg said:


> Agreed.  I def do not think they compare to the EQs but, that's just my ears.  But... $47 vs $399 retail/$367 Amazon.  I'm crazy, I'd own them both.


I own both of them to and the sound of akg is incredible for it price but I have never heard of them since a week ago lol. I hope akg will have something new this year or next year if possible.


----------



## erockg (Feb 18, 2022)

Going back and forth with the Linkbuds and the Lisbon.  They're similar IMO as to what they'd be used for.  The Lisbon really do hold their own.  They are open ear and so small and comfortable.  No frills though.  But full tap controls.  Battery life overtakes the Linkbuds.  For such a small earbud, sound is not half bad at all.  Zero connection issues.  Tried to sleep with them last night, no way, can't do it.  Comfobuds Z for the win here.  But then there's the Linkbuds.  Soundstage is bigger and airy, clarity and bass is just so far ahead of the Lisbon.  Feature packed with the Sony app helps too.  Lots of bells & whistles we all know.  These are your at home Zoom call buds that take calls like a champ and if you want to give your earholes a rest for music buds.  I'm enjoying them for sure.  All the above said, the Lisbon are only $39 vs $179 and don't suck.


----------



## erockg

nekonhime said:


> I own both of them to and the sound of akg is incredible for it price but I have never heard of them since a week ago lol. I hope akg will have something new this year or next year if possible.


I'm not sure what exactly happened to the AKG plan with the N400.  They've been out for a while and I grabbed them first when they came out, but they were on Amazon via a third party and then I heard recently only avail via Harman.  Not sure why Samsung didn't go wide with them.  Originally, they were only avail overseas.  Good news is, our gain, as we get above average pair for a deal


----------



## Ceeluh7

erockg said:


> The difference is the AKG are not supposed to be budget buds.  You're getting a $150 bud for $47 bucks.  It's a STEAL!  Highly recommend them.


Ya I was glad to get them. They are older at this point and I know first hand that paying more doesn't always equate to better, I see it all the time... I'm hoping they are pretty good man. I'm assuming they will sound a bit better than the mini pros.


----------



## nekonhime

erockg said:


> I'm not sure what exactly happened to the AKG plan with the N400.  They've been out for a while and I grabbed them first when they came out, but they were on Amazon via a third party and then I heard recently only avail via Harman.  Not sure why Samsung didn't go wide with them.  Originally, they were only avail overseas.  Good news is, our gain, as we get above average pair for a deal


I mean, samsung sure don't want akg to overtake their own brand which developed by the same team of sound engineers so the marketing just meh to none, but well, we have one of the best deal so I can't complaint about that, but maybe when the n400bc sold out, we will have a new earbuds?


----------



## erockg

Ceeluh7 said:


> Ya I was glad to get them. They are older at this point and I know first hand that paying more doesn't always equate to better, I see it all the time... I'm hoping they are pretty good man. I'm assuming they will sound a bit better than the mini pros.


I think you'll be pleasantly surprised, but I know you're not a huge Harman curve fan, unless I'm wrong


----------



## jant71 (Feb 18, 2022)

Since I signed up for info on the new Monster stuff I got an email saying they have 20% off for Presidents day. So, the new DNA Fit would be about $143 + tax and has free Fed Ex Ground. Code is PRESIDENTS20.
https://www.monsterforever.com/audio/dna-fit

Actually didn't realize the Fit have a dedicated volume rocker and the multi-function button is the M symbol. So another three button control like Nuarl but not so tiny on the buttons here.


----------



## Ceeluh7

erockg said:


> I think you'll be pleasantly surprised, but I know you're not a huge Harman curve fan, unless I'm wrong


No I really enjoy Harman. Truthfully soundpeats has a more Harman curve as well. I just sat down a bit ago with a few sets including the beautiful n400's... Really great build man


----------



## erockg

Ceeluh7 said:


> No I really enjoy Harman. Truthfully soundpeats has a more Harman curve as well. I just sat down a bit ago with a few sets including the beautiful n400's... Really great build man


That's great man.  I have to exchange mine.  Static.  No idea why.  Also, returned the Moondrop Sparks.  Honestly, I truly loved the sound, but the FIT.  Awful for me.  I tip rolled like a madman and I have a ton of tips.  Just kept slipping out.  It's such a weird mold.  Bummer.


----------



## dweaver

Well going to do my tax return tomorrow. If I get a return I will use that to buy the TWS adapter. Been seesawing between the Fiio UTWS5 and Shure TW2 and think I am going to try Fiio and keep it in the same family . 

Have so say I have basically stopped using my other TWS at this point even with having to deal with cables and stuff. The difference between the FH5 in combination with the Radsone ES100 or my Pono player is just to hard to ignore. So now just need to complete the set with the adapter and go from there.

Hate to say it but my brain has already started to think, what would the FH9 sound like... LOL. But I think I will stay firm and just enjoy the FH5. They sound very nice and the sound stage is still better than another other TWS I have tried, not mention great 3D imaging, and excellent detail and emotion.


----------



## helmutcheese

Newer BT versions and Codecs alone does not make good sound, the speakers in the AKG is what counts mainly and the tuning, yes be ideal to get newer set with BT5.2,  better Codecs and battery life.


----------



## helmutcheese

kadinh said:


> i have that one too and it works great





dweaver said:


> Well going to do my tax return tomorrow. If I get a return I will use that to buy the TWS adapter. Been seesawing between the Fiio UTWS5 and Shure TW2 and think I am going to try Fiio and keep it in the same family .
> 
> Have so say I have basically stopped using my other TWS at this point even with having to deal with cables and stuff. The difference between the FH5 in combination with the Radsone ES100 or my Pono player is just to hard to ignore. So now just need to complete the set with the adapter and go from there.
> 
> Hate to say it but my brain has already started to think, what would the FH9 sound like... LOL. But I think I will stay firm and just enjoy the FH5. They sound very nice and the sound stage is still better than another other TWS I have tried, not mention great 3D imaging, and excellent detail and emotion.



They guy in the video I posted above does not rate the FH9's, he prefers the FH5's (not sure if he tested all the filters but he has the Treble fitted).


----------



## Ceeluh7

Just because it was brought up awhile ago about these two sets being they are at the moment similarly priced. The Soundpeats Mini Pro and the AKG N400nc. 

This will be relatively quick as this was not a long sit down and there wasn't any technical listening. I am more listening for how resolving these are, tonality, details present and just plain musicality. I'm looking at anc, pass through/ambient mode as well as build and comfort. 

The build of the AKG  is just awesome and you all know that, beautiful, also the build of the MP is good for a set under $100 for sure but just not as quality and premium as the AKG. I love the case of the AKG, durable, hefty, good construction but it is just a tad too thick both ways which if it sits in your front pocket I may be looked at as a freaking perve. The MP case is perfectly small, perfect for the small front pocket and reasonably well built but nothing spectacular. 
ANC goes to the AKG. Both of these sets do not do well with attenuation of higher pitches, which is normal but for something like fan noises the AKG does better, also it can be changed in the app to fit your needs. The MP has good ANC and is good for $60 as it does drown out the outside world but just not to the degree of the AKG. 
The AKG have a more loud Ambient mode yet it isn't as natural as the Pass-thru of the MP. MP do a decent job here where the AKG are a hair more processed sounding. Both are very nice and both very usable. 
As for sound, these are both very good sets and both tuned well. Without eq and using poweramp I can see that the MP are a tad warmer. These both have very similar tonalities. The Harman tuned AKG are a degree warm of nuetral whereas the MP are just slightly warmer. Both are not crazy extended without eq up top, I'm afraid eq is necessary unless you like that warm and dull sound. Bass is about the same on these as well. Neither has more of a quantity but the AKG may be slightly tighter. It is hard to tell to be honest. 
Guys I can't believe how close these two are actually. It really is a testament to how well soundpeats tunes and implements good drivers at a low cost. I am A/B'ing these back and forth and they both sound so similar with the AKG having just a bit more air up top around the upper mids. This is a good thing as even with that upper air there is still weight to the vocals. I think that the AKG stick very close to Harman as the Mids are only a hair... I mean a hair more up front. This is not to say the MP are worse either, just slightly different. 

Guys I had to eq... I had to stop the flat eq thing so to add flavor. I bumped up each in the sub bass and from the Mids up thru to about 12k, equally. When I test iems for review I always do so without eq but with tws I truly believe that you need to eq, I believe tws are meant to EQ and the only question is how well do the drivers react to that eq and how well do they adapt and change without distortion. In this case both sets took to the eq changes like BOSSES. These two sound very much alike and both sound very good. Tonality matches each other, but the MP are a bit more resolving which I'm sure has to do with the codec. With EQ the AKG and MP have about the same soundstage in width but separation goes to the MP, again it is prob due to codec. They both image good for tws sets as well. The Bass has a hair more heft on the MP but the quality is a bit better on the AKG. The AKG also sound more natural to me but again we are splitting hairs. Overall there is more weight across the spectrum on the AKG as the MP are slightly more thin from the Mids on. Volume is close with both sets where the AKG are about one click higher in volume..... Not much. 

I do think the AKG is a better buy for multiple reasons but I gotta say... The MP are very good tws for the price and it is very close if sound quality were the only deciding factor. Just for the value alone and build quality I would pick the AKG and then tack on good sound quality and good anc. The thing that I haven't mentioned that absolutely takes things over the top for the AKG is the fact that is has an app. It is a good app as well with EQ and anc/ambient sliders, updates among a few other features. So, fellas if you can get the AKG on sale still... Get em. However I promise you can't go wrong with either. Soundpeats just nails budget sets with very good SQ as they have been in this game for a long time perfecting their craft. Sorry if this sounds rushed but I'm doing this while watching a flick with my 6 yr old. Take care fellas


----------



## Ceeluh7

erockg said:


> That's great man.  I have to exchange mine.  Static.  No idea why.  Also, returned the Moondrop Sparks.  Honestly, I truly loved the sound, but the FIT.  Awful for me.  I tip rolled like a madman and I have a ton of tips.  Just kept slipping out.  It's such a weird mold.  Bummer.


Yep, the exact reason I returned them.


----------



## helmutcheese

Wonder if SoundPeats got to grips with their lacking QC for these new buds as they sure like to throw out far too many new models per year.


----------



## Ceeluh7

helmutcheese said:


> Wonder if SoundPeats got to grips with their lacking QC for these new buds as they sure like to throw out far too many new models per year.


They do throw alot of spaghetti at walls. Some stick... Some don't. The H1 are bonkers good at the price they are at if SQ means most to a person. The AKG are just such a nice set. A complete package.


----------



## Ceeluh7

dweaver said:


> Well going to do my tax return tomorrow. If I get a return I will use that to buy the TWS adapter. Been seesawing between the Fiio UTWS5 and Shure TW2 and think I am going to try Fiio and keep it in the same family .
> 
> Have so say I have basically stopped using my other TWS at this point even with having to deal with cables and stuff. The difference between the FH5 in combination with the Radsone ES100 or my Pono player is just to hard to ignore. So now just need to complete the set with the adapter and go from there.
> 
> Hate to say it but my brain has already started to think, what would the FH9 sound like... LOL. But I think I will stay firm and just enjoy the FH5. They sound very nice and the sound stage is still better than another other TWS I have tried, not mention great 3D imaging, and excellent detail and emotion.


I wish I could say I tried the FH9. I have tried the fh7 and I would prob choose fh5 over them. However that is just me. The balanced tonality of the Fh5 is awesome and they get better with age. I didn't own the fh7 long enough to see if age would better them. There is a number of great sets in the price point though and stiff competition for the fh5. The resolution is great on that set man. It is warmer than neutral but still has good extension, with nothing offensive. It is a good set to have before you upgrade and the build quality is top notch


----------



## helmutcheese (Feb 18, 2022)

I funded the H1's and got the H1 Prem but I have been sent 3 pairs and all have the low volume on one side and one set from new had a bad battery in one side that gets really hot on charge and dies to 9% while the other is still 90%.

Same low volume on Sonic Pro (two pairs now), original Sonics one side died totally in 7-10 days from new, and the T2's, same clicking noise noise in right bud after ANC enabled (random at first but got more frequent) many reported.

All my non TWS SoundPeats BT earbuds/Neckbands were amazing, lasted at least 1-2 years and wires gave up as per normal wear and tear.

TBH the Sonic Pros to me and a few others in comments sound better to me than the H1's which seem to have something weird going on with the bass.


----------



## Ceeluh7

helmutcheese said:


> I funded the H1's and got the H1 Prem but I have been sent 3 pairs and all have the low volume on one side and one set new had a bad battery in one side that gets really hot on change and dies to 9% while the other is still 90%.
> 
> Same low voume on Sonmic Pro (two pais now), orginal Sonics one  side died in 7-10days, and the t2, same electic noise in right bud after ANC enabled (random at fiorst but got more frewuaent).


Wow.... Dude. I got mine from Amazon about a year ago and they've been wonderful. I had no idea that QC was so bad. That stinks


----------



## helmutcheese (Feb 18, 2022)

Yes, read Kickstarter and Amazon UK/US comments (I typed poorly the above after putting drops in my eyes so I have since edited and fixed typos), getting to that time of night.

Did you ever use the App be it the first time round before it was pulled as crap (poor feedback) or the new one and if so did you get offered a FW update?


----------



## Ceeluh7

helmutcheese said:


> Yes, read Kickstarter and Amazon UK/US comments (I typed poorly the above after putting drops in my eyes so I have since edited and fixed typos), getting to that time of night.
> 
> Did you ever use the App be it the first time round before it was pulled as crap (poor feedback) or the new one and if so did you get offered a FW update?


Yes I did recieve an update upon getting the app. Ya know if you ever had a working pair of H1's than you prob know... These have some great SQ. The volume on mine is one of the loudest of any tws I've ever had and trust me I want my buds loud. I did hate the sonics as they were the lowest volume I've ever tried... Lol.


----------



## helmutcheese (Feb 18, 2022)

Yes original Sonic were too low volume at 100%, the H1 are really loud and Sonics Pro are in between, I go to sleep with my Sonic Pro playing brown noise (no EQ) @ 19% Vol (That is the weird steps in Windows it does but varies on other models), but the H1 need to go to 24% Vol to be same level but it adds bass (not in a good way and again no EQ) and that is not good to sleep with.

Battery claims are BS on them all, even at 19% Vol + AAC I cannot get the hours they claim for 60% Vol + AAC.


----------



## Ceeluh7

helmutcheese said:


> Yes original Sonic were too low volume at 100%, the H1 are really loud and sonics Pro are in between, I go to sleep with my Sonic Pro playing brown noise (no EQ) @ 19% Vol (That is the weird steps in Windows it does but varies on other models), but the H1 need to go to 24 Vol to be same level but it adds bass (not in a good way and again no EQ) and that is not good to sleep with.
> 
> Battery claims are BS on them all, even at 19% Vol + AAC I cannot get the hours they claim for 60% Vol + AAC.


All in all I guess it's something you can expect from budget buds. Granted they are pretty nice for that segment. I have enjoyed the H1 and have gone back and forth a hair about the h2... I like good price to performance but a good premium set for the most part is a better investment for sure. Yes I am captain obvious


----------



## darveniza

helmutcheese said:


> Newer BT versions and Codecs alone does not make good sound, the speakers in the AKG is what counts mainly and the tuning, yes be ideal to get newer set with BT5.2,  better Codecs and battery life.


Not sound but ANC and transparency are improved with newer technology


----------



## helmutcheese (Feb 18, 2022)

Yes but I am primary looking for good SQ not ANC that in reality does not work well apart from low end hums like AC/Fans (I do not sit next to AC/Fans), hence I decided not to type that at end of my post.


----------



## samandhi

helmutcheese said:


> Yes but I am primary looking for good SQ not ANC that in reality does not work well apart from low end hums like AC/Fans (I do not sit next to AC/Fans), hence I decided not to type that at end of my post.


Sound quality is always my first consideration with TWS for me too. All the rest is bonus to me.


----------



## actorlife

Just in case no one knows...$29
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Sony-WF-C5...p2349624.m46890.l6249&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0
Bought a pair to try the 360 mode.


----------



## guitarizt

Just got my olinas. My first impressions are yep, the hype is real. They're like a way better galaxy bud pros for a more common tws. When I first got into iem's and got my timeless, I was expecting it to sound like how the olina sounds. From what some reviews are saying, I think this will be my end game until monarch mk2 and variations. I'll keep slumming around the $50- level though!


----------



## bronco1015

i have a $200 promo code for samsung online that I got from work last year, wish those AKG N400s were available on that site. i'm not in the Samsung sandbox, so not really crazy about getting the Buds pro, but maybe the buds live for the design....hm...


----------



## tonedeafmelomaniac

erockg said:


> Two headphones I have now are like that, the Noble Fokus Pro and the Clairvoyance.


Hello, @erockg! I was wondering whether there is a huge gap in sound quality between them or Clairs is just better in nuances? Which one is more engaging and fun for metal?


----------



## jant71

Kinda looks interesting....
https://en.pifferia.com/collections/mcgee/products/mcgee-anc3056-tws-in-ear-headphones







Living the Dream or off the Dream, see what I did there ? Yet, could they still put out a high quality TWS like a Cambridge or Devialet can issues aside of course. Or an older name that is not what it was and branding something just pretty good?


----------



## erockg

tonedeafmelomaniac said:


> Hello, @erockg! I was wondering whether there is a huge gap in sound quality between them or Clairs is just better in nuances? Which one is more engaging and fun for metal?


I actually flipped my Clairvoyance and got the Monarch MK2. Just absolutely amazing. I was listening to a lot of Maiden yesterday with the Fokus and the MK2. Both are phenomenal but I have to give the edge to the MMK2 but that is to be expected. Hard to compare the two because one is an actual true wireless earbud whereas the other one is an IEM on an adapter. I think you’d be happy with either setup, depending on your budget.


----------



## tonedeafmelomaniac

erockg said:


> I actually flipped my Clairvoyance and got the Monarch MK2. Just absolutely amazing. I was listening to a lot of Maiden yesterday with the Fokus and the MK2. Both are phenomenal but I have to give the edge to the MMK2 but that is to be expected. Hard to compare the two because one is an actual true wireless earbud whereas the other one is an IEM on an adapter. I think you’d be happy with either setup, depending on your budget.


I also consider Technics az60 and Final ze3000. Have you tried them?


----------



## erockg

tonedeafmelomaniac said:


> I also consider Technics az60 and Final ze3000. Have you tried them?


I've had them both.  The Final are a no frills bud, with decent sound, but I didn't like the sharp edges on the buds.  They hurt my ears.  They sounded balanced, not overly harsh, light but not non-existent sub-bass.  The Technics are really made well.  They have great ANC and sound very good.  I did think they were a little sibilant, so I ultimately flipped them.  But not everyone feels that way.  I do think the Noble Fokus beats them both as far as sound goes.  But if you want ANC and Transparency mode, the Technics do both very well.


----------



## tonedeafmelomaniac

erockg said:


> I've had them both.  The Final are a no frills bud, with decent sound, but I didn't like the sharp edges on the buds.  They hurt my ears.  They sounded balanced, not overly harsh, light but not non-existent sub-bass.  The Technics are really made well.  They have great ANC and sound very good.  I did think they were a little sibilant, so I ultimately flipped them.  But not everyone feels that way.  I do think the Noble Fokus beats them both as far as sound goes.  But if you want ANC and Transparency mode, the Technics do both very well.


Thank you for detailed answers! One more question if you don't mind. Do you hear the significant difference between Monarch wired and wireless?


----------



## erockg

tonedeafmelomaniac said:


> Thank you for detailed answers! One more question if you don't mind. Do you hear the significant difference between Monarch wired and wireless?


Believe it or not, I've never used them wired.  But I'm sure without a doubt they will sound better wired, but I do know the FiiO UTWS5 adapters have an amp built in that can power stuff very well.


----------



## erockg

jant71 said:


> Kinda looks interesting....
> https://en.pifferia.com/collections/mcgee/products/mcgee-anc3056-tws-in-ear-headphones
> 
> 
> Living the Dream or off the Dream, see what I did there ? Yet, could they still put out a high quality TWS like a Cambridge or Devialet can issues aside of course. Or an older name that is not what it was and branding something just pretty good?


Another one that uses the same shell as the Noble Falcon ANC.


----------



## jant71 (Feb 19, 2022)

erockg said:


> Another one that uses the same shell as the Noble Falcon ANC.


...and use a 10mm driver. Think they are a different model from the same OEM as they have a different case and fins.


----------



## nekonhime

jant71 said:


> Kinda looks interesting....
> https://en.pifferia.com/collections/mcgee/products/mcgee-anc3056-tws-in-ear-headphones
> 
> 
> Living the Dream or off the Dream, see what I did there ? Yet, could they still put out a high quality TWS like a Cambridge or Devialet can issues aside of course. Or an older name that is not what it was and branding something just pretty good?


Every time I come here, I find something to buy lol


----------



## xSDMx

jant71 said:


> Kinda looks interesting....
> https://en.pifferia.com/collections/mcgee/products/mcgee-anc3056-tws-in-ear-headphones
> 
> 
> Living the Dream or off the Dream, see what I did there ? Yet, could they still put out a high quality TWS like a Cambridge or Devialet can issues aside of course. Or an older name that is not what it was and branding something just pretty good?



The McGee are listed as supporting AptX Adaptive and are likely using a modern QCC like the 3046. But they also say they support multipoint connection. FiiO and others ODM have stated publicly that the new QCC don't support multipoint and they're waiting on Qualcomm to implement it. Interesting. I wonder if it's false advertising, a brand new, unknown QCC (unlikely), or if they partnered with Qualcomm directly to verify and ship multipoint support. In whichever case, this could be big news for all TWS sets moving forward!


----------



## xSDMx

xSDMx said:


> The McGee are listed as supporting AptX Adaptive and are likely using a modern QCC like the 3046. But they also say they support multipoint connection. FiiO and others ODM have stated publicly that the new QCC don't support multipoint and they're waiting on Qualcomm to implement it. Interesting. I wonder if it's false advertising, a brand new, unknown QCC (unlikely), or if they partnered with Qualcomm directly to verify and ship multipoint support. In whichever case, this could be big news for all TWS sets moving forward!



It's right in the name. This is using a new QCC and I think this is the first TWS to ship with it:

https://www.qualcomm.com/products/qcc3056

It seems then like Qualcomm isn't adding retroactive support for multipoint to the 3046, 5141, etc. and is instead spinning new hardware to support it.

So the UTWS5, etc. may never get multipoint...


----------



## helmutcheese

It stated above (the name is the hint) what they are using, it is a QCC3056 chipset also in the link with pictures.


----------



## xSDMx

They have multipoint, in ear detection, ANC, ambient mode, are using a brand new QCC. Definitely a set to watch.


----------



## darveniza

So decided to take LinkBuds for a long walk between hills and streets within a large city.

I was concerned that audio would not be that great between the different environments but surprisingly it worked tremendously the automatic adjustment of volume does actually work and I was able to listen to a few podcasts, write some emails by dictating them and then call a few people.
In particular the calls were interesting because I decided to do it while I was walking where there's a lot of traffic and everybody indicated that everything sounded well and that if I had not mentioned that I was next to main avenue they would have not noticed so these things actually do something well in that regards.
Listening to music is also great as long as you understand that you don't have anything inserted really in your ears.
By the way super comfortable and never felt like I had something in my ear I was able to go in a store and order a coffee with all the noise speak to the person pay for the item etc without even doing anything and continue to listen my music seamlessly.
I did disable the speech function as I don't want to stop what I'm doing when somebody comes and talk to me automatically at least

I would advise for anyone to give these a try


----------



## jant71 (Feb 19, 2022)

xSDMx said:


> They have multipoint, in ear detection, ANC, ambient mode, are using a brand new QCC. Definitely a set to watch.



Same stuff as the Noble but how will they sound? If on par it may come down to which style of case one likes and price and other things.


Wonder when we will get a Link Buds - Ambie TW01 comparison?


----------



## Sam L

guitarizt said:


> Just got my olinas. My first impressions are yep, the hype is real. They're like a way better galaxy bud pros for a more common tws. When I first got into iem's and got my timeless, I was expecting it to sound like how the olina sounds. From what some reviews are saying, I think this will be my end game until monarch mk2 and variations. I'll keep slumming around the $50- level though!


I'm still waiting for mine to come in. I agree, with such awesome iems avail in the sub $100 range, it's better to just not climb incrementally up the budget ranges and just save up for totl iems.


----------



## Sam L

darveniza said:


> So decided to take LinkBuds for a long walk between hills and streets within a large city.
> 
> I was concerned that audio would not be that great between the different environments but surprisingly it worked tremendously the automatic adjustment of volume does actually work and I was able to listen to a few podcasts, write some emails by dictating them and then call a few people.
> In particular the calls were interesting because I decided to do it while I was walking where there's a lot of traffic and everybody indicated that everything sounded well and that if I had not mentioned that I was next to main avenue they would have not noticed so these things actually do something well in that regards.
> ...


Agree with everything you wrote. Same, I don't feel the linkbuds in my ear at all. But I can "notice" that there is something resting near my anti tragus. A very comfortable tws for me


----------



## Ceeluh7

erockg said:


> Another one that uses the same shell as the Noble Falcon ANC.


Yep


----------



## Ceeluh7

guitarizt said:


> Just got my olinas. My first impressions are yep, the hype is real. They're like a way better galaxy bud pros for a more common tws. When I first got into iem's and got my timeless, I was expecting it to sound like how the olina sounds. From what some reviews are saying, I think this will be my end game until monarch mk2 and variations. I'll keep slumming around the $50- level though!


Dude I'm getting the Olina and the Hiby Seeds 2 in about 15 minutes... Pretty excited to write a comparison review of the olina, oxygen, and Hana 2021


----------



## iburdeinick

bronco1015 said:


> I'm kind of interested in the AKG N400, but not for $189 i'm seeing on Amazon U.s. What's the cheapest you've seen them fore and where?


Hi,

Check them now! they're going for 48$

https://www.akg.com/Headphones/Earb...20CYp5NIf_Qsd8F4crxoCP1IQAvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds


----------



## Ceeluh7

iburdeinick said:


> Hi,
> 
> Check them now! they're going for 48$
> 
> https://www.akg.com/Headphones/Earbuds/N400NCTWS-.html?mrkgadid=1&mrkgcl=1191&mrkgen=gtext&mrkgbflag=1&mrkgcat=product&utm_content=AKG_N400NC_TWS&utm_term=n400nc_tws_Exact&utm_source=Google&utm_campaign=Text|Products|2.0|Professional&utm_medium=cpc&acctid=21700000001721167&dskeywordid=43700067833052628&lid=43700067833052628&ds_s_kwgid=58700007534442132&device=c&network=g&matchtype=e&locationid=9011951&creative=565348913429&targetid=kwd-1479687286268&campaignid=1479659641&adgroupid=134176457670&kxconfid=unnmhyek8&gclid=CjwKCAiAx8KQBhAGEiwAD3EiP15r7eM8PRWTkJ1puAGSf-TgqITqLx8mxZl20CYp5NIf_Qsd8F4crxoCP1IQAvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds


They are a very solid pair man. I got them yesterday and wasn't crazy impressed with them... However, I let them burn in and play overnight and I gotta say... The AKG n400 tightened up... They sound better. To me at $47 it is the steal... Absolutely. Such a nice set. I did a mini lil side by side with the Soundpeats mini pro last night and they were neck & neck w eachother but after I let them play for a bit I give a greater edge to the n400.


----------



## Ceeluh7

guitarizt said:


> Just got my olinas. My first impressions are yep, the hype is real. They're like a way better galaxy bud pros for a more common tws. When I first got into iem's and got my timeless, I was expecting it to sound like how the olina sounds. From what some reviews are saying, I think this will be my end game until monarch mk2 and variations. I'll keep slumming around the $50- level though!


Okay... Ummmm.... I can absolutely say that the hype is justified here. I'm kind of blown away. What HBB did for $100 is silly. These are better than the Oxygen. This is still Honeymoon but, why aren't these $400. So resolving, male/female vocals... The entire soundstage is wonderful. This is single Dynamics at their best. For..... $100.


----------



## Tenlow

Alright, let's see what it is then.


----------



## regancipher (Feb 19, 2022)

First thought on the LinkBuds:

Sound is really nice, much better than the Buds Live. Far more depth and warmth to the overall sound, and almost like wearing normal TWS on higher volumes.

Calls are not as impressive as I thought they would be. Your voice sounds a little muffled even with no ambient sounds to confuse them. They deal with ambient sounds such as cars and wind pretty well though.

Touch controls on the skin is mad, doesn't work every time but works most of the time.

Comfort - jury is out. When I smile they seem to come a bit loose even with the largest wings. Actually, the largest wings make my ears feel a little sore over time. With smaller wings they feel less stable. The Buds Live are definitely much more comfortable and much less prominent, at least for me. EDIT - the second largest (same length as the longest, but thinner) seem to be the sweet spot. Secure and comfortable.

I'll post full review in due course. I also recently reviewed the Apesonic Mist which try to achieve the same thing. Don't buy them, they're awful!


----------



## darveniza

regancipher said:


> First thought on the LinkBuds:
> 
> Sound is really nice, much better than the Buds Live. Far more depth and warmth to the overall sound, and almost like wearing normal TWS on higher volumes.
> 
> ...


I did a combination of wing tips. You may want to disable the speak pause option on the app as I found this impacted call quality.

Also on tapping your skin, I tested like a radius around the ear and found the zone . In your pic they do seem to protrude a lot , I wonder if that could be creating a contact issue with ear


----------



## regancipher

darveniza said:


> I did a combination of wing tips. You may want to disable the speak pause option on the app as I found this impacted call quality.
> 
> Also on tapping your skin, I tested like a radius around the ear and found the zone . In your pic they do seem to protrude a lot , I wonder if that could be creating a contact issue with ear


Yeah I changed to the second largest. Much better. Still protrude a little more than, for example, Linus in his video, but they're OK. I like.


----------



## erockg

I just spent about four hours with the Sony Linkbuds outdoors, at my kids T-ball, grocery shopping you name it and I did not turn them off at all. Had conversations with my wife, listened to music.  They were quite awesome. But one major gripe is the Bluetooth dropped more than a few times while outdoors. iPhone 13 Pro was in the left front pocket.  Not awful, but definitely makes you assess.  Curious if any of you other Linkbuds owners have similar issues.


----------



## Tenlow

erockg said:


> I just spent about four hours with the Sony Linkbuds outdoors, at my kids T-ball, grocery shopping you name it and I did not turn them off at all. Had conversations with my wife, listened to music.  They were quite awesome. But one major gripe is the Bluetooth dropped more than a few times while outdoors. iPhone 13 Pro was in the left front pocket.  Not awful, but definitely makes you assess.  Curious if any of you other Linkbuds owners have similar issues.


It's been mentioned in a couple of reviews as well. Signal strength and distance doesn't seem to be the best. Maybe they can improve it with some future firmware updates.


----------



## regancipher

I've had no signal issues at all interestingly. I'm on Android 12, OnePlus 8T


----------



## erockg

Tenlow said:


> It's been mentioned in a couple of reviews as well. Signal strength and distance doesn't seem to be the best. Maybe they can improve it with some future firmware updates.


Thanks for that info.  Tempted to exchange them.  Happy it’s not only me.


----------



## erockg (Feb 19, 2022)

regancipher said:


> I've had no signal issues at all interestingly. I'm on Android 12, OnePlus 8T


Indoors they’re flawless.  Happens only outside if anything blocks the signal to and from my left pocket.  Sporadic.  Mind you, these days I’m very critical with my TWS


----------



## Tenlow

erockg said:


> Thanks for that info.  Tempted to exchange them.  Happy it’s not only me.


I doubt that exchanging them would help much at this point, honestly. I cannot imagine that all the review units were faulty as well.


----------



## erockg

Tenlow said:


> I doubt that exchanging them would help much at this point, honestly. I cannot imagine that all the review units were faulty as well.


Sure, I would like to think that as well. Sony can be really slow with updates sometimes so fingers crossed!


----------



## iburdeinick

Ceeluh7 said:


> They are a very solid pair man. I got them yesterday and wasn't crazy impressed with them... However, I let them burn in and play overnight and I gotta say... The AKG n400 tightened up... They sound better. To me at $47 it is the steal... Absolutely. Such a nice set. I did a mini lil side by side with the Soundpeats mini pro last night and they were neck & neck w eachother but after I let them play for a bit I give a greater edge to the n400.


I'm still waiting on them, as I just ordered them. 

I do have the Samsung Galaxy Pro Buds, and really like how they sound. This should be in theory better as I've seen.

Also waiting to see what Samsung does next to top the Pro's.


----------



## Ceeluh7

iburdeinick said:


> I'm still waiting on them, as I just ordered them.
> 
> I do have the Samsung Galaxy Pro Buds, and really like how they sound. This should be in theory better as I've seen.
> 
> Also waiting to see what Samsung does next to top the Pro's.


Ya the pros are nice, I have them both as well. Honestly I think I like them equally.


----------



## darveniza

erockg said:


> I just spent about four hours with the Sony Linkbuds outdoors, at my kids T-ball, grocery shopping you name it and I did not turn them off at all. Had conversations with my wife, listened to music.  They were quite awesome. But one major gripe is the Bluetooth dropped more than a few times while outdoors. iPhone 13 Pro was in the left front pocket.  Not awful, but definitely makes you assess.  Curious if any of you other Linkbuds owners have similar issues.


I have a few drop outs myself, but have experience the same with the Grells and Soundpearts in a specific area and I am thinking is a type of RF interference. Aside from everything pretty stable


----------



## erockg

darveniza said:


> I have a few drop outs myself, but have experience the same with the Grells and Soundpearts in a specific area and I am thinking is a type of RF interference. Aside from everything pretty stable


For me, it’s literally when I block the Bluetooth signal with say my left arm over my left pocket, then it might cut out. It’s not awful but it happened a bunch of times today. Also, I learned my lesson with the wing tips. Didn’t have a big enough one in there and one bud flew right out of my ear!


----------



## mt877

My Linkbuds arrived today. These things sound great after you pick the correct supports and find the sweet spot position in your ears. At first the sound was thin, no bass and I wasn't impressed. After I repositioned them so I got the best sound I could tell the supports were wrong, ended up using the largest supports. Now it will just be a matter of muscle memory and ear feel to put them in my ears to the same position. The sound is engaging, it's like listening to open back headphones. Man, I'm really impressed.

Here's the link to the Sony Linkbuds help guide: https://helpguide.sony.net/mdr/linkbuds/v1/en/index.html


----------



## BooleanBones

How accurate is the run time on a charge with the linkbuds? Anyone go start to finish yet?


----------



## erockg

BooleanBones said:


> How accurate is the run time on a charge with the linkbuds? Anyone go start to finish yet?


I had them in from say, 10am until 2 and they were at around 40%.  They were either paused, or playing music.  It was actually quite liberating in Whole Foods when I could rock, but still hear and respond to the wife when asked what items we should buy while my kid was running around like a loon.


----------



## BooleanBones

erockg said:


> I had them in from say, 10am until 2 and they were at around 40%.  They were either paused, or playing music.  It was actually quite liberating in Whole Foods when I could rock, but still hear and respond to the wife when asked what items we should buy while my kid was running around like a loon.


Nice


----------



## darveniza

erockg said:


> I had them in from say, 10am until 2 and they were at around 40%.  They were either paused, or playing music.  It was actually quite liberating in Whole Foods when I could rock, but still hear and respond to the wife when asked what items we should buy while my kid was running around like a loon.


Mywife just asked, what is that now? 😊


----------



## dweaver

I was tempted to get the Sony Linkbuds today but they are $250 here in Canada and comments about cutting out made me decide to wait. The open sound would be good at home and when I am in an office with other workers.

So I decided to stick with the Fiio UTWS5 which should be in my hands by Friday.

Between long term reviews of the Linkbuds and the inevitable sale prices that will come I try them later.


----------



## erockg

darveniza said:


> Mywife just asked, what is that now? 😊


Show her that collection?  Tell her, “Yeah, but this is different!  I can heeeear you now.”


----------



## darveniza

erockg said:


> Show her that collection?  Tell her, “Yeah, but this is different!  I can heeeear you now.”


I don't want to test her, sometimes staying quiet keeps me out of trouble. Just received Softears Volume, Kinera Nanna 1.0 and placed order for a Shouer EJ07M Lava. So more boxes around the desk


----------



## erockg (Feb 20, 2022)

darveniza said:


> I don't want to test her, sometimes staying quiet keeps me out of trouble. Just received Softears Volume, Kinera Nanna 1.0 and placed order for a Shouer EJ07M Lava. So more boxes around the desk


Yeah I hear you.  I just repurchased the Thieaudio Legacy 4 and 7hz to try on my Shure TW2 adapter.  TL4 arrived and Amazon rang the doorbell which is rare.  I was like, uh oh!


----------



## Ceeluh7

darveniza said:


> I don't want to test her, sometimes staying quiet keeps me out of trouble. Just received Softears Volume, Kinera Nanna 1.0 and placed order for a Shouer EJ07M Lava. So more boxes around the desk


Ooh... I want to know about the Volume man. Nice haul.


----------



## raymanh (Feb 20, 2022)

Has anyone tried foam tips for the Jabra 75t? The Comply's are expensive, but there are quite a few cheap ones on AliExpress that say they're compatible with the 75t's. Looking to improve passive isolation. I tried the CP360 tips, and while they're slightly more comfortable, they take longer to seat properly in the ear and I don't think they have any effect on isolation.


----------



## The Jojo

raymanh said:


> Has anyone tried foam tips for the Jabra 75t? The Comply's are expensive, but there are quite a few cheap ones on AliExpress that say they're compatible with the 75t's. Looking to improve passive isolation. I tried the CP360 tips, and while they're slightly more comfortable, they take longer to seat properly in the ear and I don't think they have any effect on isolation.



I have tried SO MANY cheap foam tips with my 75t. The biggest problem with most of them is that you'll lose them in your ears - they have a plain inner tube to match as many IEMs as possible, which means they easily pop off when you pull out your earbuds. That even counts for quite expensive InAirs. Comply TrueGrip Pro TW-170 however are built to click and attach to the 75ts which makes them a great choice. Check out the fourth image here: https://www.amazon.de/gp/product/B094V88358/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

 One thing to be aware of: once you get that perfect seal, the 75t combined with TrueGrips and ANC won't let you hear ANYTHING. Not even incoming cars. I almost had to learn that the hard way.


----------



## bronco1015

iburdeinick said:


> Hi,
> 
> Check them now! they're going for 48$
> 
> https://www.akg.com/Headphones/Earbuds/N400NCTWS-.html?mrkgadid=1&mrkgcl=1191&mrkgen=gtext&mrkgbflag=1&mrkgcat=product&utm_content=AKG_N400NC_TWS&utm_term=n400nc_tws_Exact&utm_source=Google&utm_campaign=Text|Products|2.0|Professional&utm_medium=cpc&acctid=21700000001721167&dskeywordid=43700067833052628&lid=43700067833052628&ds_s_kwgid=58700007534442132&device=c&network=g&matchtype=e&locationid=9011951&creative=565348913429&targetid=kwd-1479687286268&campaignid=1479659641&adgroupid=134176457670&kxconfid=unnmhyek8&gclid=CjwKCAiAx8KQBhAGEiwAD3EiP15r7eM8PRWTkJ1puAGSf-TgqITqLx8mxZl20CYp5NIf_Qsd8F4crxoCP1IQAvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds


I've been so cheap lately, I just might pick these up for that price. Quite a deal. Thanks!


----------



## raymanh (Feb 20, 2022)

The Jojo said:


> I have tried SO MANY cheap foam tips with my 75t. The biggest problem with most of them is that you'll lose them in your ears - they have a plain inner tube to match as many IEMs as possible, which means they easily pop off when you pull out your earbuds. That even counts for quite expensive InAirs. Comply TrueGrip Pro TW-170 however are built to click and attach to the 75ts which makes them a great choice. Check out the fourth image here: https://www.amazon.de/gp/product/B094V88358/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1
> 
> One thing to be aware of: once you get that perfect seal, the 75t combined with TrueGrips and ANC won't let you hear ANYTHING. Not even incoming cars. I almost had to learn that the hard way.



Yeah I too hate seeing eartips say they're compatible for the 75t only to see that there's no lip to attach onto the nozzle but rather just a push fit and using friction to secure it. Even the Comply TrueGrip for the 75t's don't have that groove to secure to the nozzle lip. (EDIT: Maybe Comply just used a generic stock image for that cross section, IDK)

I did see these on Ali which seem to have a secure fit. Have you tried them? They're also rebranded as Misodiko and a few others too.

Not hearing anything is what I'm aiming for haha! I assume then the 75t's are a good base to mod with foam tips for passive noise isolation then? They're the only TWS that I have so can't compare to anything else. I did consider getting the XM4's for their improved ANC. But for my use case I need more traffic noise suppression than low rumble suppression which is more of a passive isolation thing, and I guess the deep insertion of the 75t's are pretty good for that.


----------



## BigZ12

Linkbuds and jogging? No "thump" with these?


----------



## Caipirina

BooleanBones said:


> How accurate is the run time on a charge with the linkbuds? Anyone go start to finish yet?


speaking of 'run' time .. has anyone try running with them yet? I would expect them to be thud-less ... once I get mine (release here next friday, so I might get them Saturday) I will compare mainly with the Aeropex Aftershokz (which is actually my 'wife still wants to talk to me' set)


----------



## xSDMx

BigZ12 said:


> Linkbuds and jogging? No "thump" with these?


I can't imagine these staying in ear reliably for a run.


----------



## guitarizt

Ceeluh7 said:


> Okay... Ummmm.... I can absolutely say that the hype is justified here. I'm kind of blown away. What HBB did for $100 is silly. These are better than the Oxygen. This is still Honeymoon but, why aren't these $400. So resolving, male/female vocals... The entire soundstage is wonderful. This is single Dynamics at their best. For..... $100.


Thanks, love the mini review. Found your thread on fb too, it turned massive fast. I love the olina, it's interesting that you and michael bruce both say it's better than oxygen. I was wondering why oxygen wasn't more hyped before except by bruce. So I'm both happy that I really like the oxygen, but I'm sad because I don't want to have to hit the $300-600 range to be around this level, which is what bruce was saying you'd have to hit with other iems to be on par with the olina.


----------



## Sam L

erockg said:


> Yeah I hear you.  Use repurchased the Thieaudio Legacy 4 and 7hz to try on my Shure TW2 adapter.  TL4 arrived and Amazon rang the doorbell which is rare.  I was like, uh oh!


This hits very close to home. I have to watch the Amazon delivery map at times and go out for quick "walks" to "de-stress" =)


----------



## The Jojo

raymanh said:


> Yeah I too hate seeing eartips say they're compatible for the 75t only to see that there's no lip to attach onto the nozzle but rather just a push fit and using friction to secure it. Even the Comply TrueGrip for the 75t's don't have that groove to secure to the nozzle lip. (EDIT: Maybe Comply just used a generic stock image for that cross section, IDK)
> 
> I did see these on Ali which seem to have a secure fit. Have you tried them? They're also rebranded as Misodiko and a few others too.
> 
> Not hearing anything is what I'm aiming for haha! I assume then the 75t's are a good base to mod with foam tips for passive noise isolation then? They're the only TWS that I have so can't compare to anything else. I did consider getting the XM4's for their improved ANC. But for my use case I need more traffic noise suppression than low rumble suppression which is more of a passive isolation thing, and I guess the deep insertion of the 75t's are pretty good for that.


When I'm back home I'l check my TrueGrips for that lip, to be honest I don't remember. But they didn't fall off, for what it's worth. 

The 75ts are a great base for passive noise isolation since their nozzle is smaller than other wireless IEMs. I'm struggling to get a perfect seal with my new Technics, they're just too big for my ears. Might have to go back to the 75t‘s...


----------



## mt877

Caipirina said:


> speaking of 'run' time .. has anyone try running with them yet? I would expect them to be thud-less ... once I get mine (release here next friday, so I might get them Saturday) I will compare mainly with the Aeropex Aftershokz (which is actually my 'wife still wants to talk to me' set)





BigZ12 said:


> Linkbuds and jogging? No "thump" with these?
> 
> 
> xSDMx said:
> ...


Just got back from playing 2 hours of half court 3 on 3 basketball. Plenty of short burst hard running, change of direction cuts, spinning moves and jumping for rebounds and shots. The Linkbuds didn't budge at all and no thumping noise like you can get with IEMs. Of course since they are open to ambient sound any music I had playing was drown out sometimes by general basketball court noise (there were other ballers on the other half court making a lot of noise) and I was too busy playing to adjust the volume. I had the Linkbuds connected to my Garmin Venu 2 watch which I use for activity tracking and on the go music (when a DAP or phone is very inconvenient). I didn't experience any dropout either. Anyway YMMV, but I think you're good to go.


----------



## Tenlow

First impressions of the Linkbuds:

Not _overly_ impressed, all things considered. They sound ok/good for what they are but are (understandably) quite thin-ish and bass light and somewhat metallic at times. They're not meant for total and pure music enjoyment, I get that, but to me and my ears they don't sound a whole lot better than, say, Apple EarPods. They _absolutely_ need to be in the perfect position inside your ear though to sound their best. If not they can quickly sound like cr*p. They do get loud enough on my iPhone 13 Pro Max, no problems there. 

They're very light and fairly comfortable but not as comfortable as I hoped they would be. Yes, nothing is inside the ear but I still feel like that hard plastic is not as comfortable as it could or should be at least to my ears. Maybe I have to get used to it a bit more, mind you. I read in reviews that they wouldn't leak significantly more sound than comparable TWS buds which I was sceptical about given their open nature. In real life and comparing them to my other buds, I would say they _do_ leak more which was confirmed by people around me. Call quality seems to be good and better than on my WF-1000XM4, though. The case is nice and small, the design is a novelty and a looker. Wireless charging would have been nice. Battery life so far is average but not too bad. I quite like the outside the ear tapping (temple area). It doesn't work all the time for me but more often than not. It's good that you can also tap on the buds, though. Only double and triple taps are possible, no single taps but you can configure each bud individually in the accompanying Sony app, which is also nice. Right now, I use volume up and down on the left side as well as pause + next track on the right bud. 

Connection issues have been mentioned here already and I can also report that signal strength is worse than on most of my other buds. They drop out sooner and als more frequently. Maybe firmware updates in the future can improve things a bit on that side. 

I think these really are buds for specific situations and use cases. Maybe listening to podcasts and videos when walking around the house when you don't want to miss the doorbell, maybe for some sport situations, maybe even ok for sleeping (haven't tested that yet), maybe in the home office as they are pretty good with calls. You could do most of these things with regular Airpods as well, mind you. They're not bad buds per se but probably too case specific for me. 

I might give them back or sell them on a discount here in case anyone is interested and wants to try them out


----------



## darveniza

Ceeluh7 said:


> Ooh... I want to know about the Volume man. Nice haul.


Had the Softears RSV and preferred  the Volume,  like the shells and the bass is really well executed without compromise  the high end. Comparing to the Fiio Eclipse, both have bass but really feel the Volume hit it with the tuning.

BTW the units came in with SoftEars tips which I had never experienced.  The liquid crystal are really 👌  and makes these fit very well

Nanna 1.0 was a come back. Had sol mine quite sometime  ago and regretted  it, so decided to bite the bullet and buy it new. Never liked the v 2.0
Will see how it goes with the LAVA


----------



## darveniza

Forgot had ordered these, they have multi point  so will test them later this week


----------



## darveniza

Tenlow said:


> First impressions of the Linkbuds:
> 
> Not _overly_ impressed, all things considered. They sound ok/good for what they are but are (understandably) quite thin-ish and bass light and somewhat metallic at times. They're not meant for total and pure music enjoyment, I get that, but to me and my ears they don't sound a whole lot better than, say, Apple EarPods. They _absolutely_ need to be in the perfect position inside your ear though to sound their best. If not they can quickly sound like cr*p. They do get loud enough on my iPhone 13 Pro Max, no problems there.
> 
> ...


Are you using with IOS or Android,  the Sony connect app works well with these and IPad but cannot get my Android Phone Sony Connect  app to work with these, they work with WM4


----------



## regancipher

Caipirina said:


> speaking of 'run' time .. has anyone try running with them yet? I would expect them to be thud-less ... once I get mine (release here next friday, so I might get them Saturday) I will compare mainly with the Aeropex Aftershokz (which is actually my 'wife still wants to talk to me' set)


I just did 5k in the tail end of a storm here in the UK. A minor thud, nothing like running with silicone, but slightly more prominent than the Buds Live. What impressed me was they were totally stable, my hat nearly blew off but the Linkbuds stayed secure.

Volume was for the first time tested and a little low, but I am running a custom a12 rom on my 8t so there's a chance I could up that a little. 

I made a couple of recorded calls too, and they were incredibly good. Your voice isn't crystal clear but ambient sound was almost completely nullified.

Loving these buds, very impressed


----------



## Tenlow

darveniza said:


> Are you using with IOS or Android,  the Sony connect app works well with these and IPad but cannot get my Android Phone Sony Connect  app to work with these, they work with WM4


iOS. 

Works fine with the XM4 and the Linkbuds here.


----------



## dj24 (Feb 20, 2022)

iburdeinick said:


> I'm still waiting on them, as I just ordered them.
> 
> I do have the Samsung Galaxy Pro Buds, and really like how they sound. This should be in theory better as I've seen.
> 
> Also waiting to see what Samsung does next to top the Pro's.


A good start would be getting rid of the sub standard components they've been using lately in their earbuds that are causing serious ear infections and worse for some users out there...


----------



## iburdeinick

dj24 said:


> A good start would be getting rid of the sub standard components they've been using lately in their earbuds that are causing serious ear infections and worse for some use users out there...


I've read about it. But in my particular case there has been no issue. Must be some kind of contact dermatitis.
Any way I agree that there should not exist this issue, and Samsung must address it using an appropriate material.


----------



## Caipirina

I still could use some help with my KZ VX10 … I received a left replacement bud which works, but does not connect to the right one. Is that even possible? Don’t they have to be paired / hand shaken at the factory? Can left / right buds be mixed & matched? (In case of AirPods I am pretty sure they can’t) … I went through all kinds of hoops and resets. Now the seller is saying I can only have the Bluetooth on on ONE device for the handshake to work. HOW? I can see all my neighbors devices. It is close to impossible to find a spot with no BT signal. And not even sure this would work. Anyone any other ideas? I tried on both Android & iOS

They show up each as their own single unit.


----------



## Devodonaldson

SaveTheMantaRays said:


> I have not listened to wired IEMs in a while, but I decided to last night.
> I listened to all of my TWS buds as well, ranging from $30-$300 each.
> The listening experience of $60 wired IEMs still blow all of the TWS out of the water.
> I stopped believing that awhile ago, but the test proved it. Sad but true.
> ...


So, I think this depends on tuning. As an example, I played my bgvp dm6 out of my btr5 wired,  then switched to Noble Fokus Pro. The Fokus was more engaging with smoother mids, better low end, and absolutely more enjoyable.


----------



## Devodonaldson

Picked up some *linkbuds* today. To compare, I wore the   Buds *Live* most of the day. I definitely like the tuning of *linkbuds* more.i really enjoyed them on the drive and with different genres of music, even some hip hop. I know these aren't going to thump like iems, so I wasn't expecting that, but the bass is adequate for an earbud. Buds live have a little more bass, but overall sound isn't as clear. I'm definitely gonna be using these at different times as I like to switch up the sound. A positive is I can have in both ears at low volume and get stereo sound instead of just using one to be able to still hear at work, etc. I'm happy with them. Gonna run with them in the morning. I ha e different tws that serve different purposes, and again, I like to switch it up, even if sound gets a little less good sometimes. *Galaxy Buds live, Galaxy Buds Pro, Sony XM4, Noble Falcon Pro, Noble Fokus Pro, Sony Linkbuds. *


----------



## dweaver

bladefd said:


> The problem with the resmed nasal pillow is that the stem for pumping in the air stays in the front & hangs down by the mouth (if you have the swift fx or p10 - the two I have tried). Dreamwear stays out of the way altogether and to the back of the head. Look into it. I think you will be pleasantly surprised! It's great with tws while sleeping on both side and back.
> 
> Resmed makes one just like the Dreamwear, but I never tried it because it was too expensive unfortunately.
> 
> Anyways, I don't want to get too far off topic lol


Just want to give a shoutout to @bladefd I ended up getting a Resmed N30i because of your prompting and advice. Very similar to the Dreamwear nose pillow and it might be a game changer for me.


----------



## Caipirina (Feb 21, 2022)

Just received the 1MORE piston buds pro, which allegedly world premiere today 
Even got one of the early adopter freebie mascots! Yay me!


Funny thing, last night it showed in tracking as ‘custom clearance unsuccessful’

Other thing: they were advertised (when I first saw them) at 70$, got them for 62$ after coupons. Now they are premiering at 49$!!!
Well, better than that one guy who left a 1 star review complaining he paid 104€! Well, that’s what you pay for getting stuff first.





Impressions will follow later, after dinner

Just one more quick picture: case is small! Compared to APP


----------



## regancipher

Update to Sony Linkbuds firmware this morning 1.0.4 - improves hands-free call quality.

Only reference I could find is on Sony's Swedish site: https://www.sony.se/electronics/support/software/00275469

Seems like a massive update as I'm on 58% and it's already been about 5 minutes!!


----------



## Devodonaldson

Welcome to Wireless Row. With the addition of the Linkbuds today, the row is full. We shall ignore all the room available to start a new row. 🤣


----------



## Caipirina

Devodonaldson said:


> Welcome to Wireless Row. With the addition of the Linkbuds today, the row is full. We shall ignore all the room available to start a new row. 🤣


Nice collection! 

You need to start thinking laterally   in  ... rows & columns ...  Later add stacks


----------



## tinyman392 (Feb 21, 2022)

So I received yesterday afternoon, gave them a bit of use on and off.  General sound impressions is that they are more linear than the AP3; I’d actually say they have similar sound quality to them, though less bass and more midrange and warmth.  EQ is nice to have, right now I have a light lift with the 2.5k on up (+1 dB 2.5k, +2 dB at 6.3k and 16k).  Nothing too drastic.  Currently in the process of updating them (Sony estimates 1 hour to update)

In terms of fit, contrary to how big they look in the picture, these buds are quite small, especially compared to other TWS.  I still find my AP3 to be a bit more comfortable though for long sessions, but these do feel more secure in my ears (though the AP3 don’t feel unsecure by any means).  There is a little tenderness where the fins touch my ear, I’m not sure if I’ll adjust to that in the long term though.  Otherwise, they don’t feel like they’ll fall off and do hold securely.

These isolate less than the AP3, but still have some of the echo effects that earbuds provide.  I was hoping the hole in the earbud would help alleviate some of that, but it doesn’t.  That said, since they isolate less, they do keep you very much aware of your surroundings, even more so than a traditional earbud.  So, Sony did do that well.  I can actually have a conversation with someone while having my music at normal listening volumes.

Edit: one thing I do wish is that there would be a way to have double tap play/pause on both buds, but triple tap go to the previous song on the left while going to the next song on the right bud.


----------



## nekonhime

Caipirina said:


> I still could use some help with my KZ VX10 … I received a left replacement bud which works, but does not connect to the right one. Is that even possible? Don’t they have to be paired / hand shaken at the factory? Can left / right buds be mixed & matched? (In case of AirPods I am pretty sure they can’t) … I went through all kinds of hoops and resets. Now the seller is saying I can only have the Bluetooth on on ONE device for the handshake to work. HOW? I can see all my neighbors devices. It is close to impossible to find a spot with no BT signal. And not even sure this would work. Anyone any other ideas? I tried on both Android & iOS
> 
> They show up each as their own single unit.


Can you give some reviews about the sound quality?


----------



## regancipher

My review of the Linkbuds is up here.


----------



## Caipirina

nekonhime said:


> Can you give some reviews about the sound quality?


If I ever get them to work, sure …


----------



## onebaduce

regancipher said:


> My review of the Linkbuds is up here.


nice review


----------



## regancipher

Caipirina said:


> If I ever get them to work, sure …


Edit - we are both moaning about different buds


----------



## darveniza

regancipher said:


> Update to Sony Linkbuds firmware this morning 1.0.4 - improves hands-free call quality.
> 
> Only reference I could find is on Sony's Swedish site: https://www.sony.se/electronics/support/software/00275469
> 
> Seems like a massive update as I'm on 58% and it's already been about 5 minutes!!


 I just ran the update using my ipad. The donload process was very slow. Tried using again sony connect app with my android phone but the app's crashes. Puzzling to say the least


----------



## Caipirina

How awesome are those SoundPEATs H1?
I have to shamefully admit that ever since getting them with a few other buds from the 11.11 sale (39.07$!), other than testing if they work, I have not given them a fair shake. 
But the last few days I got really addicted to their sound! This is incredible! At that price point? Extremely engaging across the board. So glad I got those. The PNI is excellent, not missing ANC at all (well, let’s see when I try them on the train) 
Those & the Fiil T2 Pro are my biggest surprises of 2021 (we all knew the Bose QC & XM4 would rock!) 
Now I am still tempted to get the Liberty 3 Pro, since there is such a strong hype regarding their SQ …


----------



## Ceeluh7

Caipirina said:


> How awesome are those SoundPEATs H1?
> I have to shamefully admit that ever since getting them with a few other buds from the 11.11 sale (39.07$!), other than testing if they work, I have not given them a fair shake.
> But the last few days I got really addicted to their sound! This is incredible! At that price point? Extremely engaging across the board. So glad I got those. The PNI is excellent, not missing ANC at all (well, let’s see when I try them on the train)
> Those & the Fiil T2 Pro are my biggest surprises of 2021 (we all knew the Bose QC & XM4 would rock!)
> Now I am still tempted to get the Liberty 3 Pro, since there is such a strong hype regarding their SQ …


I have been saying this for quite some time. The Soundpeats H1 punch above their weight in SQ. They are V-shaped yet nothing too much on either side of the spectrum. Just a well tuned set that replays music very nicely with a ton of overhead as far as volume is concerned. I think the H1 handily best quite a few very expensive tws in the SQ dept.


----------



## xSDMx

Caipirina said:


> How awesome are those SoundPEATs H1?
> I have to shamefully admit that ever since getting them with a few other buds from the 11.11 sale (39.07$!), other than testing if they work, I have not given them a fair shake.
> But the last few days I got really addicted to their sound! This is incredible! At that price point? Extremely engaging across the board. So glad I got those. The PNI is excellent, not missing ANC at all (well, let’s see when I try them on the train)
> Those & the Fiil T2 Pro are my biggest surprises of 2021 (we all knew the Bose QC & XM4 would rock!)
> Now I am still tempted to get the Liberty 3 Pro, since there is such a strong hype regarding their SQ …


The SoundPEATs H1 have some QC issues (e.g., channel imbalance) reported by others. I bought two through Amazon and one had the channel imbalance issue, but the other was perfect. If you get a solid set, they're one of the best bargains in TWS, IMO. Great fit/comfort, incredible SQ for the price, like @Ceeluh7 fun, but not "over the top" tuning. Good clarity. Definitely recommend giving them a spin. They also have the QCC3040 chipset, AptX Adaptive, and some of the best connection stability and range I've tested on any set of TWS.


----------



## erockg

Been using the Sony Linkbuds all weekend while out and about.  These things are really great.  I did wind up exchanging them to see if the bluetooth issues persisted.  They do, but not always.  That said, they're still great.  I was at an aquarium with my kid and had them on the entire time.  Heard everything around me and they were snug.  No issues there.  There's definitely a place for these in my collection for sure.  Even went to a doctors office this morning, had them in the whole time while waiting.  Heard everything around me, no one heard my music.  I'll be keeping these.  The inlaws will be visiting soon and we'll be hitting a zoo.  The Linkbuds will be a godsend.


----------



## regancipher

xSDMx said:


> The SoundPEATs H1 have some QC issues (e.g., channel imbalance) reported by others. I bought two through Amazon and one had the channel imbalance issue, but the other was perfect. If you get a solid set, they're one of the best bargains in TWS, IMO. Great fit/comfort, incredible SQ for the price, like @Ceeluh7 fun, but not "over the top" tuning. Good clarity. Definitely recommend giving them a spin. They also have the QCC3040 chipset, AptX Adaptive, and some of the best connection stability and range I've tested on any set of TWS.


They are great, I got a good set as well and they're still one of my faves. I love the H2 as well, thought they were massively underrated other than the terrible battery life


----------



## tinyman392

erockg said:


> Been using the Sony Linkbuds all weekend while out and about.  These things are really great.  I did wind up exchanging them to see if the bluetooth issues persisted.  They do, but not always.  That said, they're still great.  I was at an aquarium with my kid and had them on the entire time.  Heard everything around me and they were snug.  No issues there.  There's definitely a place for these in my collection for sure.  Even went to a doctors office this morning, had them in the whole time while waiting.  Heard everything around me, no one heard my music.  I'll be keeping these.  The inlaws will be visiting soon and we'll be hitting a zoo.  The Linkbuds will be a godsend.


I do enjoy how the music does truly become background music while you’re playing them with the Linkbuds.  Like I can actually hold a conversation with them on with my music playing at normal volume levels.


----------



## assassin10000

erockg said:


> Been using the Sony Linkbuds all weekend while out and about.  These things are really great.  I did wind up exchanging them to see if the bluetooth issues persisted.  They do, but not always.  That said, they're still great.  I was at an aquarium with my kid and had them on the entire time.  Heard everything around me and they were snug.  No issues there.  There's definitely a place for these in my collection for sure.  Even went to a doctors office this morning, had them in the whole time while waiting.  Heard everything around me, no one heard my music.  I'll be keeping these.  The inlaws will be visiting soon and we'll be hitting a zoo.  The Linkbuds will be a godsend.





tinyman392 said:


> I do enjoy how the music does truly become background music while you’re playing them with the Linkbuds.  Like I can actually hold a conversation with them on with my music playing at normal volume levels.




The lack of wireless charging kills me. I'm on the fence if I even want to try these now.


----------



## erockg

assassin10000 said:


> The lack of wireless charging kills me. I'm on the fence if I even want to try these now.


Yeah, I miss it too but the case is so tiny I’m forgiving that aspect right now.


----------



## chinmie

Caipirina said:


> How awesome are those SoundPEATs H1?
> I have to shamefully admit that ever since getting them with a few other buds from the 11.11 sale (39.07$!), other than testing if they work, I have not given them a fair shake.
> But the last few days I got really addicted to their sound! This is incredible! At that price point? Extremely engaging across the board. So glad I got those. The PNI is excellent, not missing ANC at all (well, let’s see when I try them on the train)
> Those & the Fiil T2 Pro are my biggest surprises of 2021 (we all knew the Bose QC & XM4 would rock!)
> Now I am still tempted to get the Liberty 3 Pro, since there is such a strong hype regarding their SQ …



it's a good sounding set for sure, though i personally prefer the Fiil T1 Lite's sound, as well as a whole package (size, fit, etc) when i tested them together.


----------



## TK33

assassin10000 said:


> The lack of wireless charging kills me. I'm on the fence if I even want to try these now.


Same here. Lack of wireless charging really made me think twice.  I am down to one set of Galaxy Buds Live as my other set developed some connection issues and is now a toy for my toddler so there is room on the roster. I have become very spoiled by wireless charging and the lack of cable clutter on my desk both at home and at the office.  TWS is all about convenience for me.  There are so many choices now that I don't feel like I should have to compromise on features I want.  I am just hoping that my now 1 1/2 year old Galaxy Buds Live will last long enough for me to find a replacement.


----------



## samandhi

erockg said:


> Been using the Sony Linkbuds all weekend while out and about.  These things are really great.  I did wind up exchanging them to see if the bluetooth issues persisted.  They do, but not always.  That said, they're still great.  I was at an aquarium with my kid and had them on the entire time.  Heard everything around me and they were snug.  No issues there.  There's definitely a place for these in my collection for sure.  Even went to a doctors office this morning, had them in the whole time while waiting.  Heard everything around me, no one heard my music.  I'll be keeping these.  The inlaws will be visiting soon and we'll be hitting a zoo.  The Linkbuds will be a godsend.


Got mine yesterday. Indeed, they are really nicer than I originally thought they might be. But for WHAT I wanted them for, they would do either way. I am pleasantly surprised that they are nicer than I anticipated. I used them last night after getting home from work, and then again, all day today while working in a mechanical room with coworkers (other than recharge, they were on a full 8 1/2 hours). 

My first impressions are as follows:
The hard plastic creates hotspots in the concha part of the bud for me. I will give it a week or so and see if that improves. If it doesn't, I will just take some foams from my flathead earbuds and put them over it and see how that works out. Keep in mind that hotspot is strange, as it doesn't actually hurt while wearing them, but when I move them around, or take them out, it hurts then; maybe a reaction from the material used. I used to get the same thing from my jeans; the metal button would cause irritation. So as long as I don't move them (which they absolutely won't on their own), it is not a deal-breaker for me. But then again, I guess I have never worn recycled cars on/in my ears before.  Overall, these really are comfortable and hardly noticeable in my ears (other than aforementioned hotspot when they are moved). I switched out to the large wing on both sides to get a better fit than the small (even though my ears are small to medium sized).  

In the 1 1/2 days I have used them, I have only had a quarter second(ish) cut-out on one but, but other than that, the BT has been rock solid. I have been using either my Note 9, or the iBasso DX300 for the transport. Hopefully that helps others know that maybe not all of them have issues???? Also, at about 5 hours in, I was at low battery (about 16% in the right bud, and 40% in the left) I put them into the charging case for about half an hour. Low and behold they were 100% charged when I put them back in. I also noticed that the case went from 100% to 67% after fully charging the buds one time. 

I am sort of chagrined at the sound coming from these. First, most flathead earbuds (which this is most similar to) do not have the amount of bass that these have. The sub-bass is VERY rolled off, but the midbass covers this up (at least on most of the tracks I would listen to). Some rap, and R&B might not sound good on these if they are all about sub-bass. Secondly, the quality of sound for only having AAC and SBC is astounding. This just goes to show that those codecs CAN be implemented in such a way that the sound is really great. Audiophile quality? No, but I was not expecting it anyhow. I would put these up against a lot of AptX or AptxHD TWS (seriously).

For those pre-reviewers (consumer review sites) that say they are light in bass, they are either serious bass-heads, or they didn't fiddle with them long enough to get a good fit. These are the most sensitive to movement I have ever seen. Basically 1/64" (not an accurate measurement) can make them sound anemic, or full and rounded. 

The Sony app has worked fantastic for me, and I have had 0 issues. Upon first connecting them, I simply used NFC to pair them (per the instructions), and I was greeted with a FW update (which took about 30 minutes to download, and another 7(ish) minutes to actually install. Now, I have read that the EQ in the app doesn't do much, but I would TOTALLY disagree. No, it doesn't allow for drastic changes (such that you would need to lower gain for instance), but if used properly, you can shape it to anything you might want (including bass). The bass slider is not as useful because it raises the lower mids also, but the "Clear Bass" slider does the trick nicely. I have boosted the 2 right most treble sliders up some because they are a bit warm for my tastes OOTB. After using this EQ I find them to be very clear and full sounding.

So far all the features I have tried work very well, except DSEE because I haven't listened to many .mp3 (or compressed) music from them. Mostly Redbook or higher, so DSEE is disabled with those. I also have not tried 3d audio (or whatever it is called). I have Amazon HD, so I will be testing it at some point. I would imagine it should sound pretty good considering that these are open buds, and therefore have a huge soundstage already, and imaging is also good. So, if it gets better, I will enjoy that feature. 

As to my expectations, they have delivered and then some. If I can keep from having sore ears in the future, these will be my (most of the time) work buds. I will continue to wear my flat heads on occasion still too.


----------



## samandhi

samandhi said:


> The hard plastic creates hotspots in the concha part of the bud for me.





samandhi said:


> My temporary solution:


----------



## erockg

Oh wow.  That's wild.  I don't have any issues or pain with mine.  Swapped out the wings for the large and so far so good.  Watched a show while my wife and kid were around me and it was great to have that open ear "just in case."  Very much a better feel than transparency on with music or a movie IMO.


----------



## tinyman392

erockg said:


> Oh wow.  That's wild.  I don't have any issues or pain with mine.  Swapped out the wings for the large and so far so good.  Watched a show while my wife and kid were around me and it was great to have that open ear "just in case."  Very much a better feel than transparency on with music or a movie IMO.


I had a bit of tenderness initially around the area the wings contacted my ear. But it’s seemed to lower a little. I did try all the wing sizes though, I feel like my ears would be between the XS and S.


----------



## samandhi

erockg said:


> Oh wow.  That's wild.  I don't have any issues or pain with mine.  Swapped out the wings for the large and so far so good.  Watched a show while my wife and kid were around me and it was great to have that open ear "just in case."  Very much a better feel than transparency on with music or a movie IMO.


I suspect it is the the material used. Once planted in my ears they are supremely comfortable. 

I totally agree with this. I have yet to find a "hearthrough mode" that doesn't sound artificial, though it isn't terrible either. These are more open than even flathead buds are, which for me is a great thing. 

Don't get wrong, I still have noise isolating IEMs, and they still have their place, but these are fantastic for the opposite. Bose OG TWS were also open, and would have loved them more if sound quality was better and they weren't always on, draining the battery constantly.


----------



## samandhi

BTW, this song totally shows off the huge soundstage of the Linkbuds:


----------



## Peerless

Been using the Samsung Galaxy Bus Pro for more than a week now, I think the Earsonics Velvet V2 is not much better than this, but the kick drums on the Buds Pros are much better, also much much satisfying impact than the Sundara's bass, so far I'm not missing my wired IEMs and HP now and prefer the compact and portable setup, but I admit the fit / getting a secure fit is horrible, and in just over a week they already fell out of my ears onto the asphalt twice while walking normally. So far I'm impressed for 115 USD it's a pretty good sound.


----------



## erockg

samandhi said:


> I suspect it is the the material used. Once planted in my ears they are supremely comfortable.
> 
> I totally agree with this. I have yet to find a "hearthrough mode" that doesn't sound artificial, though it isn't terrible either. These are more open than even flathead buds are, which for me is a great thing.
> 
> Don't get wrong, I still have noise isolating IEMs, and they still have their place, but these are fantastic for the opposite. Bose OG TWS were also open, and would have loved them more if sound quality was better and they weren't always on, draining the battery constantly.


Me too.  Love my IEMs.  Using my new Thieaudio Legacy 4 with my Shure TW2 adapters right now and whew they rock.  Added a little EQ in the Shure Play app and just wow.  Fit is so nice.  Been trying to find a small IEM that goes the Shure adapters and these might be the ones.

Oddly enough, the Bose killed my ears LOL.


----------



## Ceeluh7

Peerless said:


> Been using the Samsung Galaxy Bus Pro for more than a week now, I think the Earsonics Velvet V2 is not much better than this, but the kick drums on the Buds Pros are much better, also much much satisfying impact than the Sundara's bass, so far I'm not missing my wired IEMs and HP now and prefer the compact and portable setup, but I admit the fit / getting a secure fit is horrible, and in just over a week they already fell out of my ears onto the asphalt twice while walking normally. So far I'm impressed for 115 USD it's a pretty good sound.


The Buds pro case and buds will except more eartips then it looks like. I have a set of fiio bass tips on my buds pro as they are a bit longer and actually go into my ear alot further. They seal very well. If using the stock tips... They are horrible and odd that Samsung would package them with this set.


----------



## Caipirina

As promised, a few early impressions of the new 1more Pistonbuds Pro. 

Overall very positive and for 43.12$ you get a lot of bang for your buck. Very nice sounding and very capable ANC which includes WNR (which I have not tested in detail) ... I would say that I like them better than the 80$ (back then) 1More Comfobuds Pro. Size is tiny (not tiny enough to sleep with) and fit is very nice, but I do have the weird sensation that only rarely I get the same satisfying perfect fit 'pressure' on both ears at the same time ... when walking I actually felt that they are coming loose a bit. 
One thing I discovered with the app (and same holds true for the Comfobuds Pro, but NOT for the Comfobuds Z!) is that those 'soothing sounds' are pretty useless .. they all come on 5 second loops and the restart of each loop is an annoyingly audible gap! I think for the Z the sounds are actually transferred to the buds and play from there? Or was that the Bose Sleepbuds? 

Anyways ... I wanted to love those Pistonbuds Pro a bit more .. there is really nothing wrong with them ... they are a complete, tiny package and will make many ppl happy ... but they did not blow me away like the Fiil T2 Pro or the SoundPEATS H1  ... 

Any day now I shall get the soundpeats mini pro .. and somehow I expect pretty much the same .. I really need to stop trying to find the next hidden gem ... I shall wait until the APP2  

(Well, LinkBuds are supposed to be finally released here in Japan, Land of Sony!, on Friday!)


----------



## raymanh

One to rack your brains... which TWS has the smallest case?


----------



## Ceeluh7

raymanh said:


> One to rack your brains... which TWS has the smallest case?


Soundpeats mini pro, akg tws09r, cambridge audio melomania 1+, galaxy buds pro are all very small.


----------



## raymanh

What are the case dimensions for the Soundpeats mini pro? I can only find the case dimensions for the mini, not the pro.

Looking to see if there's anything smaller than the Jabra 75t. Although, it's small it's doesn't really feel jean pocketable.


----------



## Caipirina

raymanh said:


> One to rack your brains... which TWS has the smallest case?


In my humble collection I’d say the Fiil T2 pro.


----------



## erockg

raymanh said:


> One to rack your brains... which TWS has the smallest case?


+ Sony Linkbuds, Urbanista Lisbon & Earin A-3


----------



## Tjdx

Ceeluh7 said:


> Soundpeats mini pro, akg tws09r, cambridge audio melomania 1+, galaxy buds pro are all very small.


Also the earfun free mini has a small case, Im still waiting for my SoundPeats Mini Pro to arrive (the gripes of living kinda far away haha) hopefully they will be available to pick up early next week. I can post a pict if nobody has of both cases.


----------



## erockg

raymanh said:


> One to rack your brains... which TWS has the smallest case?


You should also look at the pics thread in the upper right of this screen.  Folks (including myself) have been posting photos of the small buds over the last week or more.


----------



## raymanh

I'll take a look at the photos thanks.

Surprisingly there's not much smaller than the Jabra 75t. I didn't think it was particularly small but then again it's my only TWS. All Galaxy Buds models are actually at least more than 10% bigger. Soundpeats Minis are very slightly smaller, but Mini Pros are probably the same size as the 75t's since a review said they were bigger than the original Mini's.


----------



## jant71 (Feb 23, 2022)

raymanh said:


> I'll take a look at the photos thanks.
> 
> Surprisingly there's not much smaller than the Jabra 75t. I didn't think it was particularly small but then again it's my only TWS. All Galaxy Buds models are actually at least more than 10% bigger. Soundpeats Minis are very slightly smaller, but Mini Pros are probably the same size as the 75t's since a review said they were bigger than the original Mini's.


You mean small like this...



 In this "case"  you have 62 x 37 x 27 for the 75T vs. 40 x 40 x 28 for the S-Nano.

or jeans pocket flat small like this...


----------



## Sam L

I don't know why I bother after being forced to use an iphone...

When I was an android user, the temptation was real in trying whatever came out and as a part of discovering if/how bluetooth improvements were edging closer to wired iems, earbuds, headphones. I still get curious and end up buying different tws model but still always come back to the airpods, airpods pros, and airpods 3. Everytime. There's just something about the convenience and fully integrated experience that is hard to deny. That said, I still have a pair of earfuns and earins coming in today. Those will be my last tws purchases this year. really. no, really, I promise....


----------



## Sam L

oh, and by the way, for those thinking about getting the sony linkbuds -- get the urbanista instead. I like them both, but the sony's aren't worth the price since the urbanista's exist.


----------



## tiagopinto (Feb 23, 2022)

Caipirina said:


> I don't have a problem ... YOU have a problem



I just dropped my phone... congrats man.

I also showed this to my wife and said: “I DON’T have a problem”. She said “Now, that’s just nuts”. Thanks.

It looks like TWS heaven to me. You’re missing a couple, haha. Maybe too many?

Enjoy!


----------



## Bobbetybob

raymanh said:


> One to rack your brains... which TWS has the smallest case?


Edifier X3 are the smallest I've seen by a decent margin


----------



## tiagopinto

erockg said:


> Endgame?



Much more sensible than the previous photo, thoroughly enjoyable, high quality and versatility. Cheers.


----------



## Caipirina (Feb 23, 2022)

raymanh said:


> One to rack your brains... which TWS has the smallest case?


Here a couple to compare:


Edifier X3, Haylou GT1, Blitzwolf FYE-5 (blast from the past, very early Scarbir recommendation, doubt still can be found?) Fiil T2 pro, Bomaker SiFi

I consider all of the above highly pocketable and a joy to listen to. Only the Fiil also have ANC

(Side Note: I had not checked the Blitzwolf since last year March. Imagine my surprise when I popped them in and they still showed 60% charge!)


----------



## tiagopinto

dmphile said:


> I finally found the sound signature I wanted. These are incredible when hooked up to the FiiO UTWS5.
> 
> I went from the OH10/FH3 > FH9 and no regrets so far. Such a fun and immersive sonic profile with solid bass extension. Pure bliss.



How have the FH9 been? 

Can you compare them to other similarly priced IEMs?

Thanks


----------



## tiagopinto

jant71 said:


> Looks like, from the angle, you can see the black inside plastic on the other side. up on the right side one looks like you can see through to the metal side.



This just looks physically ridiculous. I just don’t see it working sonically. I’ve been proven wrong in the past, although not by Sony. 

Seems to me like too big of a budget for this type of r&d, which should be used to improve sound elsewhere. 

I will eat my words if I’m wrong. But this just looks plain weird.


----------



## tiagopinto

dweaver said:


> My FH5 will be hear Friday if they stay on schedule. Really looking forward to seeing how they sound. If the make me really happy then I decide which BT direction I end up going.



If you haven’t already, please report back and detail those choices and comparisons, PLEASE. I’m on upgrade mode and need as many details as possible. Thanks.


----------



## dmphile (Feb 25, 2022)

tiagopinto said:


> How have the FH9 been?
> 
> Can you compare them to other similarly priced IEMs?
> 
> Thanks


The FH9 were great, until I discovered the CA Dorado 2020s which is now my main IEM attached to the UTWS5. The Dorados basically took what the FH9 did really well in terms of clarity, detail and slam and took it up many notches. Dorado has a very emotional and full mid range that I didn't expect, but it also has much better low end extension and precision both in sub and mid bass. I love it. Before I bought the FH9, I was trying to decide between Xenns up, Andromeda, vega 2020, clairvoyance, monarch, Dorados. Needless to say, I'm glad I went with the FH9s first and then the Dorados because it helped me discover the sonic profile that suits my taste and even tho some have reviewed the Dorados poorly, there are many on here that can appreciate what it bring to the table in terms of comfort, looks, musicality, and the emotional response they illicit on various genres.


----------



## tiagopinto

dmphile said:


> Agree! It's very smooth and VERY comfortable for my ears. Big stage and very impressive and precise imaging. Different than the OH10 stage and imaging. Not sure why but the OH10 staging sometimes felt alittle artificial and messed with my head and almost disorienting at times but not with the FH9s. As you said, it just gets the entire frequency range staging and imaging just right. FiiO really did a great job on tuning this set with a little extra oomph on the bass which gives it that full body, dynamic and immersive feeling, which I love. Thankfully, the wireless adapters don't cause me any discomfort and the FH9's are equally comfortable for my ears. Will be settling on these for some time but as we all know, the itch always wins so this will be my temp end game. Lol 🤣
> 
> @Phaethon did you get the titanium or black colour?



I’m torn between:

IKKO (OH10) (I can easily get these for 200€)
Fiio (FH5 FH7 FH9) (easily attainable too, ~300/500/700) (heard good things of the 5 and 9 but not the 7)
Moondrop (B2 Dusk VERY hard to get for me but seem like the best from descriptions and also Variations 450€)
Campfire (too much torn between Honeydew/Satsuma and Holocene/Mammoth, would definitely have to try)
Thieaudio (much harder to get but the Clairvoyance seem to be special; Monarch Mk2 is maybe too expensive for me; would have to figure out how to get these from here)

I’m roaming within the 200€ to 500€ budget (I could try to go a bit higher if there is a unicorn in sight). From all the reviews I’ve read and seen and, most importantly, the comments of folks in here, I can kind of read between the lines... or at least try to. So, I’m leaning more towards the easily attainable OH10, risk taxes and order Dusk (which seems like one of if not the best) or go higher and reach for Variations/Clairvoyance.

Where I live it’s harder to buy and return, buy and return... and this would be online, let alone a retailer with listening samples. Doesn’t exist here. 

I own the Rai Solo which I’m happy with but I crave more refinement, overall better sound quality. No one here has commented on these Meze. I don’t know if people here haven’t owned them or just don’t like them.

I’m getting the Shure TW2 so I can alternate between wired and wireless for more quality out and about. I will not invest more in pure TWS until the tech significantly improves. A wireless adapter plus better IEMs will bring me closer. 

So, as you can understand, I have very few units and I’m looking for the unicorn. Not easy I know. HELP!

Cheers all!


----------



## Devodonaldson

tiagopinto said:


> This just looks physically ridiculous. I just don’t see it working sonically. I’ve been proven wrong in the past, although not by Sony.
> 
> Seems to me like too big of a budget for this type of r&d, which should be used to improve sound elsewhere.
> 
> I will eat my words if I’m wrong. But this just looks plain weird.


Ha e the Samsung buds live. They definitely had their purpose in my bag. These link buds beat them in every imaginable way EXCEPT for slight noise reduction, but wanting noise reduction isn't why I would use them. The sound quality is on point for an earbud. Nice open airy sound that works great as background music, or just adding a soundtrack to your daily grind. At work I switch between these and my Noble Fokus/Falcon Pro, depending on my mood at the time. Definitely a first world issue, when you're not concerned with a couple hundred dollars, but I'm certainly happy I have them now


----------



## dmphile (Feb 25, 2022)

tiagopinto said:


> I’m torn between:
> 
> IKKO (OH10) (I can easily get these for 200€)
> Fiio (FH5 FH7 FH9) (easily attainable too, ~300/500/700) (heard good things of the 5 and 9 but not the 7)
> ...


The OH10 served it's purpose in my search and I did enjoy them for a bit with their wide staging abilities but I also felt the bass and the staging was a little artificial for my taste. When I moved to the FH9, I felt that I hit my sweet spot. They were pleasantly detailed, wide and had precise imaging. But they just didn't evoke any emotion for me throughout my library. They sounded great...bass extension was fantastic but it was missing the little bit of lushness in the mid-range and vocals. I was looking for a fun IEM with respectable clarity and detail but one that didn't have to be absolutely clinical or analytical. I would have been pretty happy with the FH9's if I didn't discover the Dorado's TBH.

You've got some tough decisions given the various challenges you're facing from access to budget. I can't speak to any other IEMs personally aside from the Timeless, FH3, OH10s, FH9's and Dorado's. The rest of the evaluations in my journey were done through research and others experience within this thread. That being said, my preferences were leaning towards a more bass emphasized profile with better staging and imaging qualities so I narrowed my search from the FH9s to Dorado's, XENNS UP and Clairvoyance. Based on reviews and what I've read through others experience with the B2 Dusk, it wasn't for me but I know many here enjoy it and I respect the sonic qualities it produces. It just wasn't for me (again) based on what I read. I know @Ceeluh7 @erockg and @Phaethon definitely have had more time spent with the IEMs you mentioned above and could likely lend their 2 cents with your audio dilemma.


----------



## tiagopinto (Feb 24, 2022)

Phaethon said:


> I think I remember you had OH10 as well?
> Lows - The FH9 has a vastly improved bass and sub bass presence over the OH10. Bass on the FH9 is not as artificial as on the OH10, in terms of quality or as pushed forward. The CAs have a lower bass shelf, more forceful subs, a more natural presence in the audio mix.
> 
> Mids - I think the OH10s are very disappointing in its mids. They are more an inchoate wall of sound and pushed back somewhat. The FH9s solve the separation but the mids seem still recessed. This places the vocals less prominently although their quality is a mile above the OH10s. I think this is a real strong point for the CAs. The quality is very natural and it is placed in a more sensible forward position.
> ...



If only I lived in the US, I’d be getting these right now. Thanks for your input.

Edit: do you own or have owned other CA which would not fall far behind the D2020? Or the Andromeda 2020? Do they compare?


----------



## Ceeluh7

tiagopinto said:


> I’m torn between:
> 
> IKKO (OH10) (I can easily get these for 200€)
> Fiio (FH5 FH7 FH9) (easily attainable too, ~300/500/700) (heard good things of the 5 and 9 but not the 7)
> ...


I have not heard or owned the Meze. Judging by the graph they are a hair bass lite but should have nice vocals. Reviews state they are really nice. It's a good set from what I hear but I just haven't tried them out, I would like to. The OH10 are really nice. The Mangird Tea is really nice (I just picked them up on a deal). The fh7 is very very good, a more refined fh5 and the Fh5 is an awesome balanced set. It kind of depends on what sound sig you are after. I think I remember you telling me awhile back (I thought that was you) but I can't remember. Have you exhausted all reviews out there for these sets?


----------



## dmphile

tiagopinto said:


> If only I lived in the US, I’d be getting these right now. Thanks for your input.
> 
> Edit: do you own or have owned other CA which would not fall far behind the D2020? Or the Andromeda 2020? Do they compare?


They retail for the same price point but I haven't listened to the Andromeda 2020 personally, but judging from what I read and hearing from other people who do own it, the difference between the D2020 and A2020 is that the Andromeda is more analytical/detailed/resolving in it's tuning, and less emphasized in the bass region given that it doesn't have a DD to assist with the slam and punch from it's BA architecture. A2020 also has slightly better staging and imaging capabilities compared to the D2020 but less dynamics.


----------



## raymanh

jant71 said:


> You mean small like this...
> In this "case"  you have 62 x 37 x 27 for the 75T vs. 40 x 40 x 28 for the S-Nano.
> 
> or jeans pocket flat small like this...



Thanks! Haven't heard of those two. What's the second one called?

And yes I'd prefer it to be thinner so it protrudes less in the pocket. So while the S-Nano is smaller, the smallest dimension is still actually bigger than the 7t's smallest dimension.


----------



## guitarizt

Well I feel like an idiot. Finally got ldac working on linux with my btr5 over BT. It was easy. I can't tell the diff between this and wired with my vidos, and really doubt I could with olinas or timeless. Wired vs SBC on the other hand was a noticeable diff.


----------



## samandhi

tiagopinto said:


> This just looks physically ridiculous. I just don’t see it working sonically. I’ve been proven wrong in the past, although not by Sony.
> 
> Seems to me like too big of a budget for this type of r&d, which should be used to improve sound elsewhere.
> 
> I will eat my words if I’m wrong. But this just looks plain weird.


Yes, they do look ridiculous, but these are very well tuned. There aren't any major dips or spikes that I can discern. They have enough bass to be musical, while clarity is still there. You might be surprised by these IMHO. 


tiagopinto said:


> I’m torn between:
> 
> IKKO (OH10) (I can easily get these for 200€)
> Fiio (FH5 FH7 FH9) (easily attainable too, ~300/500/700) (heard good things of the 5 and 9 but not the 7)
> ...


I would submit, my friend, that any of these that you have mentioned might be better in the category you are looking for. Not that they would sound "better" per se'; that will come down to the signature you are looking for. But as for refinements, technology moves so fast, even some of the cheaper IEMs nowadays are accomplishing feats that resemble TOTL or summit-fi stuff in many ways. 

For instance, your Rai Solo uses a 9µm thickness diaphragm, where most nowadays are using 5µm or even 3µm thickness. This will make a DD almost planar(esc) in its ability to be fast and accurate in decay, etc... Also, let's not forget coatings, which refine this even further.

As an example, I would put the CCA CRA ($20 in USA) up against much higher priced single DD IEMs. Mind you, there is a TON of bass in these, but it is very tastefully done IMO (and you should know from our previous conversations, I am NOT a bass-head). But I would add to your (impossibly difficult to choose from) list the 7Hz Timeless (also boosted bass) planar, and iBasso IT-01x (a bit more analytical comparatively, but in a musical way; these might be the most similar to your Rai Solo). I'm afraid that I can't speak to the rest on your list because I have not heard them, but I have read good things on the IKKO so there IS that...

I have become very partial to the iBasso IEMs of late. I have the IT-07 (which are TOTL in sound, but not price @ $800), and IT-01, and IT-01s, but have heard the others (only sent the IT-01x back because they sound very similar to the IT-01s). All of these except the IT-01x and IT-07 have been discontinued, but you can still get them all if you dig into Amazon or Aliexpress. I got the IT-01s for $100 (were $200) new. 

Just some food for thought. I hope I have not made it more difficult for you...


----------



## Ceeluh7

guitarizt said:


> Well I feel like an idiot. Finally got ldac working on linux with my btr5 over BT. It was easy. I can't tell the diff between this and wired with my vidos, and really doubt I could with olinas or timeless. Wired vs SBC on the other hand was a noticeable diff.


Dude... Right. There is such a small difference in these devices anymore. I honestly can't really tell. That is why devices like the BTR5, qudelix, ifi go blu are such great devices to get your hands on. Awesome man... Enjoy


----------



## Ceeluh7

samandhi said:


> Yes, they do look ridiculous, but these are very well tuned. There aren't any major dips or spikes that I can discern. They have enough bass to be musical, while clarity is still there. You might be surprised by these IMHO.
> 
> I would submit, my friend, that any of these that you have mentioned might be better in the category you are looking for. Not that they would sound "better" per se'; that will come down to the signature you are looking for. But as for refinements, technology moves so fast, even some of the cheaper IEMs nowadays are accomplishing feats that resemble TOTL or summit-fi stuff in many ways.
> 
> ...


I completely agree. The Ibasso iems from the it00, it01, 01s, 01x, (didn't like the 03) or the 04 are really nice. It's good to get a bunch of opinions out there as none of us can hear everything. I would love to try out the it07 but it is unfortunately too rich for me at the moment. Those were good suggestions. There is just a ton of good iems to weed thru anymore.


----------



## samandhi (Feb 24, 2022)

Ceeluh7 said:


> I completely agree. The Ibasso iems from the it00, it01, 01s, 01x, (didn't like the 03) or the 04 are really nice. It's good to get a bunch of opinions out there as none of us can hear everything. I would love to try out the it07 but it is unfortunately too rich for me at the moment. Those were good suggestions. There is just a ton of good iems to weed thru anymore.


The IT-03 are actually the only ones I have not heard (other than the AM05). Sounds like I might be glad to have skipped over them?  Anyhow, if you DO get a chance to audition the IT-07 I would not pass it up. If I had to choose to keep only one of my IEMs those would be it (even over my beloved TinHifi P1).

One of the things I like about where IEMs are going is that they are easy to drive, so work well with even the least powerful BT adaptor. Hence, they can become all-rounders with the least amount of money spent.

If interested, and because I never put all my gear in my signature (it changes too often, and I am too lazy to update it), here are my current IEMs/earbuds (in no certain order):



Spoiler: My Collection Minus Headphones



IEMs

Xiaomi Piston II
DUNU DK2001
Audiosense T800
CCA CRA
iBasso IT-01s
iBasso IT-01
iBasso IT-07
7Hz Timeless
TinHifi P1
Earbuds


Smabat ST10S Gold (150 Ohms)
Smabat M2s Pro
Moondrop Chaconne
Yincrow RW2000
NiceHCK EB2S
Rose Technics Maria II
DUNU Alpha 1
TWS


Nuarl N6 Pro
Cambridge Audio Melomania Touch
Hifiman TWS600
Sony Linkbuds


----------



## Phaethon

Ceeluh7 said:


> I completely agree. The Ibasso iems from the it00, it01, 01s, 01x, (didn't like the 03) or the 04 are really nice. It's good to get a bunch of opinions out there as none of us can hear everything. I would love to try out the it07 but it is unfortunately too rich for me at the moment. Those were good suggestions. There is just a ton of good iems to weed thru anymore.


I haven’t posted in a few days but here’s my latest two cents: my rotation right now are the Dorado 2020, Moondrop B2, and maybe the best deal and best all-rounder: the TRI Starsea. They are like the OH10s with more separation, stage, and livelier mids. A very happy pair. I want to love the IT07 but on the set I received the left unit spun quite loosely on its MMCX connection and had no sound. So back they went and were replaced by the IKKO OH7. Those are breathtaking in every imaginable way but the Dorados tick all those boxes and are more fun. On my radar right now are the TRI Starlight 4, Empire Ears Bravado MK II, DUNU Zen Pro and Thieaudio Monarch MK II. Whew!


----------



## Phaethon

All of my rotation above pair awesomely with the TW2s


----------



## clerkpalmer

Recommendations for a low profile tws with physical buttons? I find touch controls don’t mix well with my excessive sweating while exercising. TIA.


----------



## jant71 (Feb 24, 2022)

tiagopinto said:


> This just looks physically ridiculous. I just don’t see it working sonically. I’ve been proven wrong in the past, although not by Sony.
> 
> Seems to me like too big of a budget for this type of r&d, which should be used to improve sound elsewhere.
> 
> I will eat my words if I’m wrong. But this just looks plain weird.


It is niche. For a certain use more than others. Would like it if they did include some type of front cap to convert it to a more sealed up style. More versatile that way. Kinda like the ANC for shooting some hoops by myself and other exercise getting rid of some noise. Also like my podcasts and want to hear those and keep up with what is going on. Not too much a work need or background listening in my case. Some will have a need or want. May be big for the babysitter crowd so they can gossip on the phone and still hear the blender start running and can get there in time so no little fingers are lost. 


raymanh said:


> Thanks! Haven't heard of those two. What's the second one called?
> 
> And yes I'd prefer it to be thinner so it protrudes less in the pocket. So while the S-Nano is smaller, the smallest dimension is still actually bigger than the 7t's smallest dimension.


Some different brands on that one. Some better than others. It is an Earpods style though if that isn't what you want. A popular branding is the Yobybo Card20...





You could go the "Wearbuds" built into a watch type and have no case in your pocket. They gotta have better ones now. Certainly One that will be more popular once they get the more efficent LE in them and they can get better battery life. Some cool styles out there...


----------



## Ceeluh7

samandhi said:


> The IT-03 are actually the only ones I have not heard (other than the AM05). Sounds like I might be glad to have skipped over them?  Anyhow, if you DO get a chance to audition the IT-07 I would not pass it up. If I had to choose to keep only one of my IEMs those would be it (even over my beloved TinHifi P1).
> 
> One of the things I like about where IEMs are going is that they are easy to drive, so work well with even the least powerful BT adaptor. Hence, they can become all-rounders with the least amount of money spent.
> 
> ...


Ya know what.... That is really helpful! We should all do this... It would help alot and maybe even give us a resource for questions. I think I'll add my list as well when I get home... Thank you man. BTW nice collection, you have a good assortment.


----------



## tiagopinto

samandhi said:


> Yes, they do look ridiculous, but these are very well tuned. There aren't any major dips or spikes that I can discern. They have enough bass to be musical, while clarity is still there. You might be surprised by these IMHO.
> 
> I would submit, my friend, that any of these that you have mentioned might be better in the category you are looking for. Not that they would sound "better" per se'; that will come down to the signature you are looking for. But as for refinements, technology moves so fast, even some of the cheaper IEMs nowadays are accomplishing feats that resemble TOTL or summit-fi stuff in many ways.
> 
> ...



Thanks for your input. The tech also really impacts the sound as I’m even looking at driver brands and shell material, if not only tips and cables. 

I’m pretty confused right now as I have very few previous references. I know what music is supposed to sound like and I know what I like but I’ve mostly listened to speakers and some full size cans but never better IEMs. 

So, not being able to try different sound signatures and needing to invest wisely has me running in circles. 

I’ll get there, hopefully.


----------



## jant71 (Feb 24, 2022)

Budget bargain time again . Credit to Gamesky showing this one today...


Buuuut there is another currently cheaper version that has a bigger battery and wireless charging. Now $16.00 after 60% off on Amazon...
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B09LR1N358/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

$9 cheaper than $25, this one does seem to have wireless charging and an even better 15 minutes for 3 hour quick charge(the other gives 10 for 90?) I don't think either is really a hybrid but if one is this version with the better battery and wireless would probably be it...




Only 1 left though!

Edit: 0 left now. Anyone here get the last one?


----------



## dmphile

jant71 said:


> Budget bargain time again . Credit to Gamesky showing this one today...
> 
> 
> Buuuut there is another cheaper version of it that has a bigger battery and wireless charging. Now $16.00 after 60% off on Amazon...
> ...



LoL audio gear marketing always strikes me with a few giggles... "45% more punchy bass, 120% highs and 100% mids" whatever that means!


----------



## jant71 (Feb 24, 2022)

dmphile said:


> LoL audio gear marketing always strikes me with a few giggles... "45% more punchy bass, 120% highs and 100% mids" whatever that means!


I'm certain it is about what the armature would add to the spectrum. Bad translation and/or way to put it but you can get the drift. There have been some real doozies originally from other languages. My personal favorite was from Beyerdynamic talking about how much kids and elderly people are gonna love the headphones. Forget the actual statement though but it was so silly it was LOL funny.


----------



## tiagopinto

Ceeluh7 said:


> I have not heard or owned the Meze. Judging by the graph they are a hair bass lite but should have nice vocals. Reviews state they are really nice. It's a good set from what I hear but I just haven't tried them out, I would like to. The OH10 are really nice. The Mangird Tea is really nice (I just picked them up on a deal). The fh7 is very very good, a more refined fh5 and the Fh5 is an awesome balanced set. It kind of depends on what sound sig you are after. I think I remember you telling me awhile back (I thought that was you) but I can't remember. Have you exhausted all reviews out there for these sets?



As for the Rai Solo, wish someone here had them so I could narrow my scope. My main goal remains sound quality above all. 

But I’m frantically reading and watching reviews and comparisons. And I believe I’ve narrowed my scope, at least based on price for the moment. I’m more in the 400€ region, up or down a 100. (Unless there’s something VERY special further up, like a Dorado 2020 (at a very special open-box rate) or something else).

The descriptions I’ve been seeing of the B2D are right up my alley, I guess. But the Variations seem to be more and better of “almost” the same. The B2D are only available from China, which would bring the price very close the Vs, which I can get for 439€. 

The descriptions I’ve seen of the Clairvoyance put them well against the Vs but I don’t know if I could get them here and price may be steeper. Are they better?

OH10 seem to be nice but inferior to any of these. In come the Fiio, where I’m in FH5/FH7 territory. FH5 may have more of the bass I like but FH7 would maybe be superior in it’s detail, imaging, soundstage. Still to get more info on comparisons with these. A friend got his FH3 today but I believe they’ll be a little under par, if comparable. 

I’ve heard very good things of the Campfire tuning, mainly in the upper thousand buck tier. Don’t know if the lower tiers could compete with these other offerings. Need to gather more info. 

I greatly appreciate your continued inputs as I believe they are helping me steer in the right direction. 

As for sound signature, I’m just going to make this post a LITTLE bit longer.

This is my headphones test playlist:



And this is the list of my favorite albums from 2021:
(no specific order)
The War on Drugs: I Don’t Live Here Anymore
Vijay Iyer / Linda May Han Oh / Tyshawn Sorey: Uneasy
Little Simz: Sometimes I Might Be Introvert
Turnstile: Glow On
Jazmine Sullivan: Heaux Tales
Drake: Certified Lover Boy
Leon Bridges: Gold-Diggers Sound
Foo Fighters: Medicine at Midnight
Sons of Kemet: Black To The Future
Sault: Nine
10
Jordan Rakei: What We Call Life
Nas: King’s Disease II
Tony Allen: There Is No End
Gojira: Fortitude
Nightmares On Wax: Shout Out! To Freedom...
Idles: CRAWLER
Paul Weller: Fat Pop (Volume 1)
Pat Metheny: Side-Eye NYC (V1.IV)
Delvon Lamarr Organ Trio: I Told You So
Damon Albarn: The Nearer the Fountain, More Pure the Stream Flows
20
The Hold Steady: Open Door Policy
Maxïmo Park: Nature Always Wins
Dinosaur Jr.: Sweep It Into Space
The Black Keys: Delta Kream
Alfa Mist: Bring Backs
Red Fang: Arrows
Migos: Culture III
Alicia Keys: KEYS
Greta Van Fleet - The Battle at Garden's Gate
Nas: King’s Disease II
30
Silk Sonic: An Evening With Silk Sonic
Arlo Parks: Collapsed Into Sunbeams
Common: A Beautiful Revolution (Pt 2)
Pharoah Sanders, Floating Points and London Symphony Orchestra: Promises
Utmost honorable mention:
Radiohead: Kid A Mnesia

Hope I get to also help someone with my recommendations. Cheers!


----------



## tiagopinto

Ceeluh7 said:


> Could not agree more man. The MT's have that more organic tonality that not every set can duplicate. The melomania 1+ as well. Cambridge nails tonality. I still regularly listen to my MT's and 1+ and still enjoy them. As far as amplication goes... Yes Cambridge does add a separate amp which is half the battle in tws. When we see consistent dac/amps then the game will change a bit more but for now most tws use the SOC's dac within the chip and a very small minority of tws have separate amping. It Def helps....alot.



Haven’t tested the 1+ but I’ve loved the MT’s all along, mostly for their tonality and practicality.



samandhi said:


> They have come a long way from where they started. Some were upset when they decided to change the tuning (like 3 times) with FW updates without telling anyone, but I for one, love where they ended up, and I don't think I will update again (just in case they screw them up). @miserybeforethemusic was a tester for their latest FW and had some feedback that was implemented in them, so good on him for that one.
> 
> In the beginning they were purely basshead TWS for sure. Yeah, the bass was very satisfying, but the mids were so recessed, and the treble was very warm. I DID like them, but really only for the bass (though I am not a basshead). When they started tuning them to include the rest of the spectrum, I started enjoying them even more.
> 
> I haven't listened to them much for a while now, but saw them mentioned on here, and decided to give them a listen while I write this and this whole album sounds terrific with these in:




 I was one of the guys who didn’t like the (unannounced) tuning changes in the firmware updates. Enough time has passed for me to forget how it was before and grown to like how it is. 

No issues with mine other than the occasional miss-touch on such a large and sensitive area and the very seldom miss-connect. They could have less wind sensitive transparency and better call mics. But otherwise still use them almost daily and most certainly when out of the house. AWESOME for 130€. Now less. 

It’s just that, like I’ve said, we all want better. So I’ve been focusing on upping my IEM game, while getting the TW2 (or UTWS5) for that TWS feeling but with much better SQ!


----------



## samandhi

Ceeluh7 said:


> Ya know what.... That is really helpful! We should all do this... It would help alot and maybe even give us a resource for questions. I think I'll add my list as well when I get home... Thank you man. BTW nice collection, you have a good assortment.


Thank You! I also think that, knowing what I have people that are looking for recs might know the type of sound signature I am into (or at least one step closer), to see if they can rely on my rec. For instance, take Crinacle's database. He is very consistent, but I don't like the same type of sound signature at all. So, I can almost count on his lower ranked IEMs to be good-great sounding for me.  (Which is actually true; I have bought a couple on his list that were ranked pretty low and found them fantastic). 

Looking forward to seeing your list or currents!


tiagopinto said:


> As for the Rai Solo, wish someone here had them so I could narrow my scope. My main goal remains sound quality above all.
> 
> But I’m frantically reading and watching reviews and comparisons. And I believe I’ve narrowed my scope, at least based on price for the moment. I’m more in the 400€ region, up or down a 100. (Unless there’s something VERY special further up, like a Dorado 2020 (at a very special open-box rate) or something else).
> 
> ...



It really looks like you are looking more for all-rounders TBH. Are there no sound boutiques in your area that you might be able to audition? I ask that because, just being high priced, or supposed TOTL doesn't make them great... to you. I have listened to some of CA stuff, and I don't really like them as much as some of my mid to lower-tiered gear. Not that they are bad, but they just don't go along with what I am looking for. 

If you like the Rai Solo signature really well, then you might not like a ton of bass (for instance), but on the other hand, if you like the MT, those ARE bass heavy. Are you looking for something in the middle of those two, same bass as MT, or neutral bass like Rai Solo? Also, are you sensitive to pina gain region? Quite a few Chi-Fi makers boost this to give the illusion of more clarity (because treble tuning in IEMs is really tough and probably costly), but if you are sensitive to the area, they will sound shrill and not be pleasant.

For myself, I like a little boosted bass above neutral, but I like it linear (not a mid-bass hump for instance). Mids CAN be recessed a bit as long as they are clear and not soft, or thin on the other side of it. I don't like an overly boosted pina gain (presense region) to add clarity. I like treble for clarity. So, in a nutshell; neutral(ish) but musical so as not to be boring. The IT-07 are very analytical in nature, but also very musical. The P1 are warm(ish) but analytical, but not as musical, so can get boring sounding (unless you EQ them). IMO something right in between those things is the 7Hz Timeless. They do have a boosted bass, but not overly done (think MT), but they are also very detailed in all frequencies (even though they are slight V). Keep in mind, though that if you have a lot of lossy music, you won't like them because they are not very forgiving in this realm. 

Also, the CCA CRA are absolutely fantastic sounding (at its cost or higher I would add). Lots of bass - not Skullcandy/Beats bass of old, but tighter and faster, more controlled (I wouldn't say fatiguing). Mids are a tad recessed (a V signature) but also very clear not too thin, or warm and treble is on the warmer side of neutral but nowhere near dark sounding IMO. For $20 or less, it can't hurt to try to see if you like that style of signature IMO. I would put them against $100-$200 IEMs. I guarantee that you at least won't hate them! And if you do, you will be a hero to some kid/girl/guy/family that you give them to.. 

That being said, it still will be up to you. You might just need to pull the trigger on something, so you can at least get a feel of what is out there nowadays, and where you can go with your money. Research can only take you so far in this rabbit hole hobby IMHO.

I still think you would like the DUNU DK2001 (from our conversations of old), and they have been discontinued, but you can get them from Aliexpress still. They have one of the best stock cables in the market (at that price range)... still.


----------



## Caipirina

jant71 said:


> You mean small like this...
> 
> 
> or jeans pocket flat small like this...


I actually have a version of these .. they are NOT as flat/tiny at the pictures suggest

Compared with APP


----------



## jant71 (Feb 24, 2022)

Caipirina said:


> I actually have a version of these .. they are NOT as flat/tiny at the pictures suggest
> 
> Compared with APP


Bout what you would expect. Thinner than the apple which is pretty small. The OP wants to go thinner from about 27mm. The APP is 21.7 and those have to be under 20mm. Don't think they are the 13.4mm they say but 17mm would be down 10mm which is hard to beat for the jeans pocket flatness thing. How good they are is another thing.

Are those the Nexigo Air T2's? Guess that would be the latest version with 5.2 and 3040 chip so perhaps the best one.


----------



## guitarizt

Ceeluh7 said:


> Dude... Right. There is such a small difference in these devices anymore. I honestly can't really tell. That is why devices like the BTR5, qudelix, ifi go blu are such great devices to get your hands on. Awesome man... Enjoy


Hahahaha, but I am still looking for a dac/amp. I just can't believe the portable ones are better than standalone. Zen dac v2 has its own problems with the inbalance at low vols and hallway delay/reverb thing going on. Plus it's 190 instead of 150 now. Mojo is so old and more like 300-350 used instead of 250. High pitched whining problems with some, and batt dies fast. Would have to mod it for pc only. The go blu everyone likes, but it's the same thing where I can't imagine that the zen dac isn't better. The official ifi account on here also said the nano idsd was a step above the zen dac, but that reviewers didn't say anything about a diff in sound.

Trying to find more direct comparisons amongst mojo, go blu, zen dac, and schiit stuff. I want to cry.


----------



## samandhi

guitarizt said:


> Hahahaha, but I am still looking for a dac/amp. I just can't believe the portable ones are better than standalone. Zen dac v2 has its own problems with the inbalance at low vols and hallway delay/reverb thing going on. Plus it's 190 instead of 150 now. Mojo is so old and more like 300-350 used instead of 250. High pitched whining problems with some, and batt dies fast. Would have to mod it for pc only. The go blu everyone likes, but it's the same thing where I can't imagine that the zen dac isn't better. The official ifi account on here also said the nano idsd was a step above the zen dac, but that reviewers didn't say anything about a diff in sound.
> 
> Trying to find more direct comparisons amongst mojo, go blu, zen dac, and schiit stuff. I want to cry.


You can always go the DAP route. The DX300 has a quad DAC (effectively 8 channel DAC) FPGA master, and 2 batteries (one for digital and one for the amp for about 16 hours playback). The stock amp puts out 7.1 vrms at 2 amps. Of course, it is $1100 also which isn't cheap, but comparatively and for what you get it actually is. Probably not helpful, but thought I would throw that out there as an option (of course there are many other options too).


----------



## guitarizt

samandhi said:


> You can always go the DAP route. The DX300 has a quad DAC (effectively 8 channel DAC) FPGA master, and 2 batteries (one for digital and one for the amp for about 16 hours playback). The stock amp puts out 7.1 vrms at 2 amps. Of course, it is $1100 also which isn't cheap, but comparatively and for what you get it actually is. Probably not helpful, but thought I would throw that out there as an option (of course there are many other options too).


Man, dap's are beastly af. Unfortunately I'm looking more at the $400- range. Also the btr5 is so good because it can go from wired on pc to bt on pc seamlessly, and same on phone. I need to be able to hear google maps directions on my phone when traveling.


----------



## samandhi (Feb 24, 2022)

guitarizt said:


> Man, dap's are beastly af. Unfortunately I'm looking more at the $400- range. Also the btr5 is so good because it can go from wired on pc to bt on pc seamlessly, and same on phone. I need to be able to hear google maps directions on my phone when traveling.


I totally get the budget thing. BTW! The DX300 can also do that BT transceiver (in this case reverse BT).. hehe So far it has been a swiss army knife of things it can do, but I suppose I bought it because of the sound. The rest was just a bonus for me.

I hope you find the device that is perfect for you!


----------



## Ceeluh7

guitarizt said:


> Hahahaha, but I am still looking for a dac/amp. I just can't believe the portable ones are better than standalone. Zen dac v2 has its own problems with the inbalance at low vols and hallway delay/reverb thing going on. Plus it's 190 instead of 150 now. Mojo is so old and more like 300-350 used instead of 250. High pitched whining problems with some, and batt dies fast. Would have to mod it for pc only. The go blu everyone likes, but it's the same thing where I can't imagine that the zen dac isn't better. The official ifi account on here also said the nano idsd was a step above the zen dac, but that reviewers didn't say anything about a diff in sound.
> 
> Trying to find more direct comparisons amongst mojo, go blu, zen dac, and schiit stuff. I want to cry.


Bro I know. It is alot to shuffle through. I think we all go thru that at some point. Trying to figure out use cases of devices and how they will work for us and then trying to maximize what we can get because.... Damnit these are expensive! There are quite a few out there that are great but it has to fit your lifestyle. That is whu I got rid of all desktop stuff and invested in Daps. However then the dongle craze hit and I found the value in dongle and how well music comes across thru them with my smartphone. All that said, the thing that I listen to the most is the IFi Go Blu at this stage of the game. Not much of a compromise in SQ and it is so convenient. I do go back and forth with the Qudelix 5k and the Fiio Ka3 alot as well. I just found that nice, powerful little portable devices are really nice. I prefer something that has its own battery. BTW.... You may want to take a look at the up and coming Shanling UA5. It is a dongle dac with all the bells and whistles and also has its own battery so it won't leach off your phone. Of course it is $235...i think... Could be wrong about that.


----------



## Ceeluh7

samandhi said:


> You can always go the DAP route. The DX300 has a quad DAC (effectively 8 channel DAC) FPGA master, and 2 batteries (one for digital and one for the amp for about 16 hours playback). The stock amp puts out 7.1 vrms at 2 amps. Of course, it is $1100 also which isn't cheap, but comparatively and for what you get it actually is. Probably not helpful, but thought I would throw that out there as an option (of course there are many other options too).


That thing is beautiful too. I'd love to get my hands on a DX300. Very nice


----------



## samandhi

Ceeluh7 said:


> That thing is beautiful too. I'd love to get my hands on a DX300. Very nice


Unfortunately, it has been discontinued (though one can still get one for now) because of the shortage of chips on Cirrus' part. The upcoming replacement DAP DX320 will be just like the DX300, but with a different DAC chip (dual rather than quad), but more importantly it will be something in the $2-3K range.. 

Looks like even iBasso isn't immune to the A&K/Cayin "just hike the price" plan...


----------



## dyh

Hi all,

I've been doing a shootout with these TWS Earphones:


Sony WF-1000XM4
Bose Quiet Comfort Earbuds
Anker Soundcore Liberty 3 Pro
Sennheiser Momentum 2
Bang & Olufsen Beoplay EQ
Devialet Gemini

I also want to try the Technics EAH-AZ60, but they're currently out of stock in the US. I "may" also want to try the Jabra Elite 7 Pro, but I understand a lot of people have complained about latency. And I'm wondering if Sennheiser will soon be releasing the successor to the Momentum 2.

From my listening so far, I think the best sounding earphones are the Bang & Olufsen Beoplay EQ, and the Devialet Gemini. I think I'd give the edge to the Devialet Gemini, since they seem possibly more detailed and cleaner, and offer more separation of the sounds compared to the Beoplay EQ, although the Gemini may be a bit harsh in the highs as well. The Geminis also get louder, if necessary. I was listening back and forth, and A/Bing a bunch of times though. Both the Beoplay EQ and the Gemini have good sound quality.

The only other TWS Earphones I know of worth considering for the top spot are the Noble Fokus. Any thoughts on how the Noble Fokus compares to the Earphones I listed?

And are there any other Products worth considering? For now I'm going to rule out any Bluetooth Adapters connected to IEMs, and just go with TWS Earphones that go directly in the ears.

Thanks for your help.


----------



## Sam L

Ceeluh7 said:


> I completely agree. The Ibasso iems from the it00, it01, 01s, 01x, (didn't like the 03) or the 04 are really nice. It's good to get a bunch of opinions out there as none of us can hear everything. I would love to try out the it07 but it is unfortunately too rich for me at the moment. Those were good suggestions. There is just a ton of good iems to weed thru anymore.


In my opinion the it00, when it released, was severely underrated. There's a bit more competition in the $70-80 range now and the sub $50 got really competitive with the CCA CRA, but back in 2020, the it00 was a clear stand out.


----------



## Sam L

hmm.... just got the Earin A-3 in. So far, I'm not a fan. Does someone actually like these? They don't sound "bad" but for the price, not worth it.


----------



## samandhi

Sam L said:


> In my opinion the it00, when it released, was severely underrated. There's a bit more competition in the $70-80 range now and the sub $50 got really competitive with the CCA CRA, but back in 2020, the it00 was a clear stand out.


I think, by and large, that all the ITxx IEMs have been underrated (at least the ones I have heard), especially the IT-07 IMHO. Probably because there wasn't a huge hpye-train running rampant... LOL

Yeah, I think that the CRA probably sound better by some margin (from memory) than the IT-00 to my ears, at a cheaper cost. 

Technology is moving pretty darned fast, and some of the best features that used to ONLY be featured in the kilobuck IEMs are trickling down to the cheaper ones. 

That being said, I haven't really been interested in upgrading my 3 TWS till now. They are all so different than each other, I think I have the spectrum fully covered (for my tastes). The Linkbuds was an impulse buy for me, because they are open just like flathead buds. Turned out to be a really nice addition to my collection.


----------



## raymanh

Re: The thinnest case TWS, thanks for the suggestions everyone but it doesn't look like there's anything really smaller than the 75t that's worth changing to.


----------



## dweaver

tiagopinto said:


> If you haven’t already, please report back and detail those choices and comparisons, PLEASE. I’m on upgrade mode and need as many details as possible. Thanks.


Ok my UTWS5 arrived today and so far I am very happy. 

Truth be told as much as I loved the detail of the FH5 I have been a bit worried about the brightness I was hearing.  It was just a bit to bright at times and the mids were a bit thin. I was hoping this would turn out to be my sources ES100 and Pono player both which are on the colder brighter side.

I was worried the UTWS5 might be a bit to powerful as the FH5 doesn't seem to need much juice.

Well the DAC in the UTWS5 is damn near perfect for the FH5. It has warmed up the mids enough to remove that thin cold sound and tones the treble just a smidge making the headphones less fatiguing.

@tiagopinto I bought the FH5 because I found it on sale in Canada for just $100 off retail so only $40 more than the FH3 and I love a good deal. But these sound seriously good. They have great sub-bass when pair with the UTWS5 a nice slightly warm midrange and detailed but not harsh treble. The sound stage is not super big but is better than average and the imaging is excellent. For me these are almost as good as my dead XBA-Z5 and in some areas surpass that IEM.

So I can't comment on the other IEMs your looking at but can say the FH5 sound awesome.

This combo slays any TWS I have tried including my AZ60 which I still enjoy and will use for situations where it is better suited. But for at home or in situations where I can just enjoy my music this works perfectly for me.

Love the comfort of this IEM design, super comfy for me and the fear I had that the UTWS5 would ruin that are gone.

For those who own the UTWS5, how do I enable the ambient mode and is there any EQ options in the app for these?


----------



## dweaver




----------



## Phaethon

Ceeluh7 said:


> That thing is beautiful too. I'd love to get my hands on a DX300. Very nice


The DX300 is gorgeous! The screen is comparable to any flagship phone and the resident full-Android is snappy and user friendly.  The thing was designed to address the complaints about every other DAP. A very wonderful addition to my collection. I had no idea they’d discontinued it.


----------



## dweaver

@tiagopinto If you can only get the FH5 at full retail and have a choice to go to buy the FH5S, I have heard it a bit more balanced with a bigger sound stage since it is slightly open, so depending on whether you want a more balanced signature and bigger sound stage at the cost of a bit of isolation, it might be the better option if basically the same price. DSnuts said he thought the FH5S  had the best synergy with the UTWS5 out of all the Fiio IEMs he could try which included the FH9, several FA and FD models.


----------



## dweaver (Feb 25, 2022)

To put into perspective the difference in sound quality of the FH5 powered by the UTWS5, I tried music by Infected Mushroom and Glitch Mob using the ES100 and found they sounded unappealing with the bass lacking impact, mids that sounded cold and harsh treble, with the UTWS5 they have fuller harder bass, enjoyabled mids and the treble is enjoyable, complete about face for me for that genre of music.


----------



## guitarizt

samandhi said:


> I totally get the budget thing. BTW! The DX300 can also do that BT transceiver (in this case reverse BT).. hehe So far it has been a swiss army knife of things it can do, but I suppose I bought it because of the sound. The rest was just a bonus for me.
> 
> I hope you find the device that is perfect for you!


You know what I was kind of in the back of my mind, if other daps can work as a bt transceiver, that'd be great. Maybe bypass the whole desktop setup. But more things to compare. Go blu vs dx300 vs desktop setup. Ugh! lol. The mojo seems to keep coming up as a good option so I'll keep sleeping on it and keeping my eyes open for a used one. I'm hoping something new comes out that is amazing. I'll also keep my eyes out for shanling ua5 reviews, thx for mentioning that one @Ceeluh7.


----------



## Caipirina

Linkbuds have landed!

Well done Amazon, finding the right box size … and deliver ON release day! 

Very first impressions are quite positive. Still transferring firmware update and maybe I try some other wings. Maybe there is even a sweater spot. 
It DOES remind me of the Areopex quite some. But those are not TWS


----------



## samandhi

dweaver said:


> To put into perspective the difference in sound quality of the FH5 powered by the UTWS5, I tried Infected Mushroom and Glitch Mob using the ES100 and found they sounded unappealing with the bass lacking impact, mids that sounded cold and harsh treble, with the UTWS5 they have fuller harder bass, enjoyabled mids and the treble is enjoyable, complete about face for me.


WOW! The names they don't think up to draw attention. First there was 7Hz (also known as the brown note), then Infected Mushroom and Glitch Mob? LOL


----------



## Ceeluh7

dweaver said:


> To put into perspective the difference in sound quality of the FH5 powered by the UTWS5, I tried Infected Mushroom and Glitch Mob using the ES100 and found they sounded unappealing with the bass lacking impact, mids that sounded cold and harsh treble, with the UTWS5 they have fuller harder bass, enjoyabled mids and the treble is enjoyable, complete about face for me.


Utws5 is a beast with a quality dac/amp included. I agree man


----------



## Tenlow

Out of curiosity, and yes very late to the party, I received a pair of Nothing Ear1 Black Edition today. 

They do look sexy, I have to admit. Downloaded the app, updated the firmware to the latest one and...so far so good. First impressions are actually very positive, honestly.

No, they're not the best sounding buds our there by a long stretch but they do sound decent enough. Frequency response also seems pretty good, frankly. 

They fit well (large stock tips), are really comfortable so far, get decently loud and the touch controls work well so far, too. Maybe they have ironed out a couple of the bugs that plagued them when they were released (so I've read at least). 

ANC is definitely noticeable but doesn't stand a chance against my WF-1000XM4 or the Devialet Gemini. But it's there and it works.

Same applies to the transparency mode. Not the best by far but it's ok and possibly "good enough". 

Haven't made phone calls with it, yet. 

But, again, first impressions are absolutely positive for the 99€ asking price. Seems to be a solid, affordable alrounder for the not so critical listening sessions


----------



## dweaver

samandhi said:


> WOW! The names they don't think up to draw attention. First there was 7Hz (also known as the brown note), then Infected Mushroom and Glitch Mob? LOL


That post by me is what happens when I post just before bed LOL. Sure does sound like I am talking about 2 different IEMs LOL. Might go back and fix that .


----------



## erockg

Sam L said:


> hmm.... just got the Earin A-3 in. So far, I'm not a fan. Does someone actually like these? They don't sound "bad" but for the price, not worth it.


I truly wanted to love them but was so very disappointed they changed their design.  They should have stuck with the M-2 style and just refined it more.  They were just awesome.  My Earin A-3's grew wings a long time ago ;(


----------



## erockg

dweaver said:


> Ok my UTWS5 arrived today and so far I am very happy.
> 
> Truth be told as much as I loved the detail of the FH5 I have been a bit worried about the brightness I was hearing.  It was just a bit to bright at times and the mids were a bit thin. I was hoping this would turn out to be my sources ES100 and Pono player both which are on the colder brighter side.
> 
> ...


No EQ options yet, but to get ambient mode, you need to download the beta, put it locally on your phone in a folder, open the firmware update gear in the FiiO app then install.  It's super easy.  I don't have the link handy, but FiiO posted the link to the beta in the FiiO UTWS5 forum heading here on Head-Fi.  Search here: page-63


----------



## dweaver

Thanks for the link @erockg unfortunately it fails to install when I try it. Maybe it only worked with an older version of the connect app or I have to new a version of FW. I am running 1.3 at the moment.


----------



## erockg

dweaver said:


> Thanks for the link @erockg unfortunately it fails to install when I try it. Maybe it only worked with an older version of the connect app or I have to new a version of FW. I am running 1.3 at the moment.


Interesting. They haven’t updated anything in weeks/months. Are you downloading the beta locally on your phone before trying to update?  I can only vouch for iOS because that’s what I use.


----------



## Ceeluh7

erockg said:


> Interesting. They haven’t updated anything in weeks/months. Are you downloading the beta locally on your phone before trying to update?  I can only vouch for iOS because that’s what I use.


It works on android as well. I have the beta working nicely


----------



## dweaver (Feb 25, 2022)

I downloaded the file then told it to use local and clicked on the file I downloaded once I figured out where it was located. I had the adapters out if the case hanging on my ears with no music playing.

The EQ is pretty much not needed for my case as the FH5 are essentially to perfect from the UTWS5 signature wise.


----------



## dweaver

Ok, it helps if you click ck on the right file... LOL

Updating now...


----------



## Ceeluh7

dweaver said:


> I downloaded the file then told it to use local and clicked on the file I downloaded once I figured out where it was located. I had the adapters out if the case hanging on my ears with no music playing.
> 
> The EQ is pretty much not needed for my case as the FH5 are essentially to perfect from the UTWS5 signature wise.


Totally agree man. Nice


----------



## dweaver

Updated and working, so it switches 3 click to ambient from Google button, right? Would prefer both but saying OK Google seems to work so that will do.


----------



## Ceeluh7

dweaver said:


> Updated and working, so it switches 3 click to ambient from Google button, right? Would prefer both but saying OK Google seems to work so that will do.


I think it's 3 clicks in the right side turn on ambient so yep you got it. The ambient isn't bad. Now let's see if they implement the promised lhdc codec. Not that anyone can actually use it.. Lol


----------



## dweaver

Lol, i am starting to search for a phone that supports APTx Adaptive since Samsung are such jerks about it...


----------



## jant71

dweaver said:


> Lol, i am starting to search for a phone that supports APTx Adaptive since Samsung are such jerks about it...


I saw this article had a list in it... https://mobilityarena.com/aptx-adaptive-phones-best-audio-quality/


----------



## Ceeluh7

dweaver said:


> Lol, i am starting to search for a phone that supports APTx Adaptive since Samsung are such jerks about it...


I know I have the note 10 plus and... No adaptive.... Stupid. Aptx is nice and LDAC for my other devices but why leave out the new staple of the tws world with aptx adaptive.... Dumb Samsung! Lol.


----------



## jant71

Of course a Snapdragon Sound capable phone will be better going forward than just Adaptive capable.


----------



## cresny

dweaver said:


> Thanks for the link @erockg unfortunately it fails to install when I try it. Maybe it only worked with an older version of the connect app or I have to new a version of FW. I am running 1.3 at the moment.


If you are on Android, you need to have the 2.8 app version here to install the 1.38 driver


----------



## dweaver

jant71 said:


> I saw this article had a list in it... https://mobilityarena.com/aptx-adaptive-phones-best-audio-quality/


I read that article and it's great, unfortunately almost none of those phones are available through Canadian cellular providers. Will see what I can drum up


----------



## dweaver

Love the battery life on the UTWS5 I have been listening since 7:30am (1:15PM now) and used these in bed last night, and have done an update and I finally got my first battery warning.  Left side is at 13% and right is at 8%. Time to switch up to something different while these charge, AZ60 coming out next


----------



## jant71

dweaver said:


> I read that article and it's great, unfortunately almost none of those phones are available through Canadian cellular providers. Will see what I can drum up


Oh well!


----------



## Caipirina

dweaver said:


> I read that article and it's great, unfortunately almost none of those phones are available through Canadian cellular providers. Will see what I can drum up


I got a cheap Xiaomi phone just for music (and for app usage for those few buds that don’t do iOS apps). Redmi 9T … not sure about adaptive though. That wasn’t a topic back then. Somehow it is rated ‘hi-res’ for audio, but nowhere I could find what that actually means.


----------



## Tjdx

So the Soundpeats Mini Pro are finally!! in my possesion.

Some pics attached.

They sound pretty nice! and better if i think on the price point, the ANC is very decent, it tame my dehumifier running in the back, not completly but when music started playing I forget about the thing running (I can still hear ir).

So far Im liking the volume, at max in my S21 Ultra 5G is more than enought in fact I probably will be using this at 70% in the office.

Regarding sound I dont have any final comment but I cant complain with the small amount of time I tested them (did a very quick test with a few tracks via Spotify Premium). Also Im not going to test this with something too fancy because the primary use will be music while working and conference calls via team, and due to the stupid implementation from Samsung regarding BT is not worth it, nevertheless when I get a better player (doing some resarch and saving for a good DAP) I will try to do a more in detail test.

The case is small and I think very pocketable but I will carry this on my backpack so dont really care for me the size is right.

The construction is very nice and I do like the finish and the feel of the case (it does not seem to get finger prints easily like the earfuns free mini).

Regarding comfort they are comfty enought but I will play with them later more on that regard and maybe try different tips, the tips provided are super soft and very comfortable. But I do feel they can drop off (I havent try the other tip sizes) im in a hurry... so will play more with them at night!.

Thanks @Ceeluh7 for the info and feedback.

If any one has a good playlist for test on spotify please share I got a few that use plus my favorites songs etc.


----------



## jant71 (Feb 25, 2022)

I got one of those Lava Beans coming. Why not for the $16. I had a few points that even covered the tax so $16 is a deal if they are as good as Gamesky and the reviews make them out to be. I do like a big airy sound and am partial to the titanium driver tinge.  Might have gotten the Mini Pro but don't need the ANC really. Still rocking my AT's. Actually changed to some other JVC tips I found and removed the screens from the CKS50TW and that last little bit of fuzz is gone, they are more transparent with a slightly blacker background, slightly better balanced with a smidge less bass and slightly more treble. Good to go with tips that seal better and give the best ANC performance. Before more sealing tips thickened them more than I liked but now all is good.

Still like the shape of the Mini Pro though.


----------



## Ceeluh7

Tjdx said:


> So the Soundpeats Mini Pro are finally!! in my possesion.
> 
> Some pics attached.
> 
> ...


Great man. Ya I have a ton of tws and have reached for this set quite often. The tips I found that I use get really deep insertion. They were tips that came with the Hiby Beans (iem). I haven't seen them anywhere else but they truly are perfect... For me. I'm glad you like this set. The Mini Pro are very comfortable and do what they are expected to do and replay music very well and to your point these do punch above their price point in terms of sound quality. Great man


----------



## jant71 (Feb 25, 2022)

I do like the look of the new Addidas...






Just you pay more for the name. They might be quite good but just should be cheaper for only ambient, BT5.2, and 25 total hours of battery life. IPX5 is not that high for sports either. $99 would be more tempting.
https://www.adidasheadphones.com/us...VDo6zCh044gFwEAQYASABEgIQRPD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds


----------



## tiagopinto

Phaethon said:


> Oh yeah, add those tiny MMCX to 2pin adapters to the Shures and I’ve even been able to use the finicky Moondrops on them.



Have you used the TW2 with the small adapters and the Variations. How’s the fit? How’s the sound? Thx.


----------



## Phaethon

tiagopinto said:


> Have you used the TW2 with the small adapters and the Variations. How’s the fit? How’s the sound? Thx.


I don’t have the Variations but I do have the Blessing 2s. The ear fit is great - no different than wearing them without the TW2s. The adapters with the B2s fit well in the charging case too. No need to take them off the adapters to fit in the case. The sound on the TW2s is great. They are powerful enough to drive any of my IEMs with headroom to spare and a rock solid BT connection


----------



## tiagopinto (Feb 26, 2022)

samandhi said:


> But the thread on here regarding earbuds (of all types, much like this thread) is heavily visited by many, and is actually longer than this one (who would have thought that possible) at 4k(ish).





samandhi said:


> I have read every page from the very start. I have also read all 4k(ish) pages of the earbuds thread.



Geez, I just found that thread... don’t know if I have the guts... but there must be a lot of info there... I’m diving in, shallow water for now.

Edit: I just realized it started 13 years ago. I can’t do it. At least I’ll use the search bar a lot, that’s for sure.


----------



## jant71

jant71 said:


> You are just gonna end up with some Koss drivers mounted on the FiiO earhooks.


Some people gettin' the idea...


----------



## Caipirina

tiagopinto said:


> Geez, I just found that thread... don’t know if I have the guts... but there must be a lot of info there... I’m diving in, shallow water for now.
> 
> Edit: I just realized it started 13 years ago. I can’t do it. At least I’ll use the search bar a lot, that’s for sure.


No worries, it started Sept 2017, so, only 4.5 years worth of posts  you can do it 

But yeah. Search function is your friend. 
Enjoy our little rabbit hole.


----------



## jant71 (Feb 26, 2022)

Caipirina said:


> No worries, it started Sept 2017, so, only 4.5 years worth of posts  you can do it
> 
> But yeah. Search function is your friend.
> Enjoy our little rabbit hole.


But why start from the beginning of the thread anyway. To read about old stuff that you can't buy any more. Or maybe you can still buy it but probably shouldn't


----------



## ElKabong

erockg said:


> https://cleeraudio.com/in-ear-headphones/
> 
> https://cleeraudio.com/in-ear-headphones/goal/


Just purchased the Ally Plus 2, reviews were pretty good, half the price of Sony XM4's.


----------



## Ceeluh7

Phaethon said:


> I don’t have the Variations but I do have the Blessing 2s. The ear fit is great - no different than wearing them without the TW2s. The adapters with the B2s fit well in the charging case too. No need to take them off the adapters to fit in the case. The sound on the TW2s is great. They are powerful enough to drive any of my IEMs with headroom to spare and a rock solid BT connection


That's a great setup man... Blessing 2's are really nice... Enjoy


----------



## Ceeluh7

jant71 said:


> I got one of those Lava Beans coming. Why not for the $16. I had a few points that even covered the tax so $16 is a deal if they are as good as Gamesky and the reviews make them out to be. I do like a big airy sound and am partial to the titanium driver tinge.  Might have gotten the Mini Pro but don't need the ANC really. Still rocking my AT's. Actually changed to some other JVC tips I found and removed the screens from the CKS50TW and that last little bit of fuzz is gone, they are more transparent with a slightly blacker background, slightly better balanced with a smidge less bass and slightly more treble. Good to go with tips that seal better and give the best ANC performance. Before more sealing tips thickened them more than I liked but now all is good.
> 
> Still like the shape of the Mini Pro though.


I'd like to hear your thoughts on these lil budget wonders. I saw the Gamesky Video... Not bad. I'm always looking for good budget stuff.


----------



## samandhi

tiagopinto said:


> Geez, I just found that thread... don’t know if I have the guts... but there must be a lot of info there... I’m diving in, shallow water for now.
> 
> Edit: I just realized it started 13 years ago. I can’t do it. At least I’ll use the search bar a lot, that’s for sure.


Oh, I totally get that. But I might suggest starting about halfway (or a bit further) in. About that time is when a guy named @ WoodyLuvr  and @ ClieOS (and I'm sure others as well) started putting together a database of all the (worthy) earbuds. Earbuds tend to stick around longer than IEMs being as how they are a bit more niche, they don't put out a new one every month. Either way this list DOES have some discontinued models, but most are still either current, or fairly current. 

The good news is that you don't really even need to read it all anyhow. WoodyLuvr also put together a (sort of) questionnaire that you can answer and recommendations will be given based on that (it really IS very efficient and helpful). It looks like this:



> *EARBUD RECOMMENDATION REQUEST CHECKLIST*
> For those newbs looking for a flathead-earbud recommendation from the Earbuds Round-Up thread gang, the following data is extremely helpful:
> 
> *source* _(Smartphone, DAC, AMP, DAP, PC, Streamer, etc.)_
> ...




Sorry for being off topic. 

On topic - I see that the UTWS5 is STILL unavailable. I wonder if they just didn't know they would be as popular as they are, or if they are doing a "Nintendo"; purposely creating a shortage/demand?! Oh well, I WILL have a set one day, or if not something better will come out by then.

Did I see someone say that Fiio has mentioned adding LDAC to them? That would be pretty awesome if you ask me.


----------



## dweaver

I am loving the UTWS5 sound, battery life, ambient mode. Seperate volume which is very adjustable, seperate volume for notices, answering calls, listening to music (awesome feature!).

But it is a bit flaky for me. A couple times the buttons have stopped working such as pausing and starting music etc. So at that point I have had to turn them off and on or reset them to get them working.

So hopefully Fiio gets off their butt and updates the FW. But the audio is just stellar...


----------



## Tenlow

dyh said:


> Hi all,
> 
> I've been doing a shootout with these TWS Earphones:
> 
> ...


Imo, the B&O EQ might still slightly edge out the Gemini in pure sound quality, although it's admittedly close. I do prefer the Gemini though as they get louder (as you pointed out) and they do have the better ANC, too. I love the EQ's case, though. 

My personal lists of top 5 favourite TWS right now would be: 

1. Sony WF-1000XM4 (best allrounder, best ANC and passive isolation, best features and pretty good sound when EQ'd)
2. Devialet Gemini (very good sound quality and great ANC)
3. Master & Dynamic MW08 Sport (best battery life, great case, good sound)
4. Bang & Olufsen EQ (best sound quality, best case, but sadly fairly "low" volume, mediocre ANC and average battery life)
5. Sennheiser Momentum True Wireless 2 (bit "old" by now, very good sound but could also be louder, good case but lacking wireless charging and still have a master/slave setup). 

Biggest disappointment: Bowers & Wilkins PI7 (bad battery life, very good sound but no EQ, could be louder in iOS, mediocre bluetooth connection and range, too expensive). 

Best budget: So far honestly the Nothing Ear1. I've only had them for two days now but am really impressed with the black edition. The case will definitely scratch up like crazy and battery life is only average, but they sound good, look good, have good enough ANC and transparency modes (especially for the price), support wireless charging and call quality is surprisingly good, too. They're also lightweight and comfortable. Not much to complain here, really.


----------



## BigZ12 (Feb 26, 2022)

- (G)HTPC in living room (AMD 5800x, Nvidia RTX3060ti)
- Fiio BTA30 PRO (32bit/384khz with USB and LDAC transmitter (990kbps - 24bit/96khz?)
- Apple Music via Bluestacks and Android app (with Lossless audio)

Headsets in use:
- Sony WH-1000XM4 (LDAC) with Crinacle EQ setting trough PEACE EQ.
- Moondrop Aria with balanced Tripowin Zonie cable and Qudelix 5k LDAC receiver.

Works and sounds very good!!!!
BUT... I want something better than the Aria. Max $150-200. Could the Tripowin Olina be a good option for just $99?

I also will buy an adapter like UTWS5. Pair it with the Aria I guess. Still the best adapter out there right now?
(I sold my TRN BT30 and the Tripowin Mele btw)


----------



## dweaver (Feb 26, 2022)

BigZ12 said:


> I also will buy an adapter like UTWS5. Pair it with the Aria I guess. Still the best adapter out there right now?
> (I sold my TRN BT30 and the Tripowin Mele btw)


The UTWS5 sounds amazing to me but is a bit buggy on my phone. The other option is the Shure TW2 which appears to also be very good with less bugs. Unfortunately I can't say what the difference between the 2 products is from a sonic perspective.


----------



## Ceeluh7

BigZ12 said:


> - (G)HTPC in living room (AMD 5800x, Nvidia RTX3060ti)
> - Fiio BTA30 PRO (32bit/384khz with USB and LDAC transmitter (990kbps - 24bit/96khz?)
> - Apple Music via Bluestacks and Android app (with Lossless audio)
> 
> ...


Tripowin Olina is a direct upgrade for sure. Are you looking for Harman tuned? Or something a bit different? I love the Qudelix man, very nice. Also the utws5 is fantastic but it seems you cannot buy the stinking thing. Ive been wanting to buy a 2nd utws5 for some time but simply can't find one.. Lol. Anyways $150-200 is imo one of the most competitive price brackets...


----------



## jant71

Ceeluh7 said:


> I'd like to hear your thoughts on these lil budget wonders. I saw the Gamesky Video... Not bad. I'm always looking for good budget stuff.


Supposed to come Monday but I figured Sunday yet they showed up today. Took some pics:


Case is better than the Gamesky reviewed LB10 version. No "screen", the display is the kind you can't tell is there when it is off which is nicer. Quick wireless check above - works fine and that front blue LED stays lit to tell you that the buds are still charging with the lid closed. Handsome package more like a bigger brand than something cheap. Case is heavy due to having a 2500maH battery in it  Not really gigantic at 49mm x 79mm x 32mm. Pretty solid construction as well.  Will see how they sound tomorrow.


----------



## LordToneeus

jant71 said:


> I do like the look of the new Addidas...
> 
> 
> Just you pay more for the name. They might be quite good but just should be cheaper for only ambient, BT5.2, and 25 total hours of battery life. IPX5 is not that high for sports either. $99 would be more tempting.
> https://www.adidasheadphones.com/us...VDo6zCh044gFwEAQYASABEgIQRPD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds


Ditto on the aesthetic. They have a look all their own. I dig it.


----------



## dj24

jant71 said:


> I got one of those Lava Beans coming. Why not for the $16. I had a few points that even covered the tax so $16 is a deal if they are as good as Gamesky and the reviews make them out to be. I do like a big airy sound and am partial to the titanium driver tinge.  Might have gotten the Mini Pro but don't need the ANC really. Still rocking my AT's. Actually changed to some other JVC tips I found and removed the screens from the CKS50TW and that last little bit of fuzz is gone, they are more transparent with a slightly blacker background, slightly better balanced with a smidge less bass and slightly more treble. Good to go with tips that seal better and give the best ANC performance. Before more sealing tips thickened them more than I liked but now all is good.
> 
> Still like the shape of the Mini Pro though.


Where did you find them for just $16?  Maybe a link?


----------



## jant71 (Feb 26, 2022)

dj24 said:


> Where did you find them for just $16?  Maybe a link?


Was in the original post...


jant71 said:


> Budget bargain time again . Credit to Gamesky showing this one today...
> 
> 
> Buuuut there is another currently cheaper version that has a bigger battery and wireless charging. Now $16.00 after 60% off on Amazon...
> ...



Since I posted again for the link I will mention that these things have great connection stability so far and the touch control is done right. No accidental presses as they have just the right sensitivity. Was gonna say I didn't think either model really had a hybrid but I thought Gamesky said the other was 4.5 grams and these are 5.4g which could be an armature.  Kinda sounds like it. A decent amount of treble and that slight incoherence of a hybrid that is cleaner up higher since the dynamic needs some burn in. Seems to sound a bit like two drivers. Not proof but maybe I am more inclined to think it could be true.


----------



## Caipirina

Those with Linkbuds. How bad is the often reported BT connection drop issue for you? I thought I got lucky, but as my testing progresses it seems to be getting worse …
Reaching deal breaker potential … 
Yes, FW is updated


----------



## thimantha

Hello everyone, it's been a while since I scoured this forum. My trusty pairs of QCY QS2s and Haylou GT1 Plus's are nearing their end-of-life, and I wanted to buy a new pair of TWS earphones for daily driving, under $50. What are my best options right now?


----------



## Devodonaldson

Caipirina said:


> Those with Linkbuds. How bad is the often reported BT connection drop issue for you? I thought I got lucky, but as my testing progresses it seems to be getting worse …
> Reaching deal breaker potential …
> Yes, FW is updated


I've had no connection drops paired with either Samsung phone or iPhone 13 mini


----------



## Caipirina

thimantha said:


> Hello everyone, it's been a while since I scoured this forum. My trusty pairs of QCY QS2s and Haylou GT1 Plus's are nearing their end-of-life, and I wanted to buy a new pair of TWS earphones for daily driving, under $50. What are my best options right now?


Depending on what your focus is. ANC? Sound sig? I find recently those realme NeoBuds pro for 30$ a ridiculous bang for buck. Strong anc and sound is on the dark, bassy side, let’s call it dynamic. Fun for pop / edm/ work out stuff.


----------



## samandhi

Caipirina said:


> Those with Linkbuds. How bad is the often reported BT connection drop issue for you? I thought I got lucky, but as my testing progresses it seems to be getting worse …
> Reaching deal breaker potential …
> Yes, FW is updated





Devodonaldson said:


> I've had no connection drops paired with either Samsung phone or iPhone 13 mini


Nor have I had any issues at all, though admittedly I keep my source close at all times (mostly my pocket). Note 9, DX300, and DX160.


----------



## tinyman392

Caipirina said:


> Those with Linkbuds. How bad is the often reported BT connection drop issue for you? I thought I got lucky, but as my testing progresses it seems to be getting worse …
> Reaching deal breaker potential …
> Yes, FW is updated


I haven’t had any issues.


----------



## jmwant

erockg said:


> I'm still listening to these Moondrop Sparks but they're definitely worth the price.  As always with Moondrop, you get a huge value with their buds.  These sound great.  The app is crude, but it did manage to let me update the firmware, choose and EQ preset and then change the touch/tap controls.  NO volume control which annoys me, but the sound does make up for it.  In a quiet environment the mics seem fine for calls.  Volume could be louder but you can get there if you go up to 80-90%.  Probably not needed for most.  Soundstage is excellent.  Balanced.  Has some sub-bass punch.  I chose the Bass preset for a little more oomph and it's not overwhelming at all.  Still tip rolling and it's been a bitch.  They're incredibly light and look like IEMs.


Considering the price, do you think Nekocake is a Better buy?


----------



## scarpeta

Hello everyone, first of all sorry for my English, I wanted to know if two utws5 can be used with the same device (mobile phone)

I have one attached to a Monarch MKI and would like to purchase another to attach to an IMR Astra Ultraque.

Do you know if it could? Would you have connection problems? Has anyone tried it?

Thank you all for your responses.


----------



## Phaethon

scarpeta said:


> Hello everyone, first of all sorry for my English, I wanted to know if two utws5 can be used with the same device (mobile phone)
> 
> I have one attached to a Monarch MKI and would like to purchase another to attach to an IMR Astra Ultraque.
> 
> ...


Great question. You can make the connections but they will be named the same thing. Very confusing. So I deleted both connections and paired them one at a time - renaming them “2 pin“ and “ MMCX”. Worked perfectly and I could keep them straight.


----------



## clerkpalmer

Any opinions on the Elite 85t? They are available refurbished from Jabra for 80. Would these be a decent workout bud? Do they have physical buttons? Thanks.


----------



## clerkpalmer

jant71 said:


> I do like the look of the new Addidas...
> 
> 
> Just you pay more for the name. They might be quite good but just should be cheaper for only ambient, BT5.2, and 25 total hours of battery life. IPX5 is not that high for sports either. $99 would be more tempting.
> https://www.adidasheadphones.com/us...VDo6zCh044gFwEAQYASABEgIQRPD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds


Looks like a shallow Bose Esque fit. These are made by Marshall? Wish they had ANC at that price.


----------



## jant71

clerkpalmer said:


> Looks like a shallow Bose Esque fit. These are made by Marshall? Wish they had ANC at that price.


Pretty sure that the same people that make the buds for Marshall also makes these. Similar to the Mode II. Of course being Addidas and geared for sports, the gym etc., one would think ANC would be good to have but sadly no. IPX5 a bit light as well for that purpose.


----------



## clerkpalmer

jant71 said:


> Pretty sure that the same people that make the buds for Marshall also makes these. Similar to the Mode II. Of course being Addidas and geared for sports, the gym etc., one would think ANC would be good to have but sadly no. IPX5 a bit light as well for that purpose.


Agreed. Probably good fun sound and solid fit. 2 out 3 isn’t bad. Might take a flyer on them. Getting ready for biking season and I don’t need anc for that purpose anyway. My biggest problem is sweat interfering with touch controls. I have a few situations where sweat has caused volume to crank to the max inadvertently. While clipped in that can cause some mayhem.


----------



## erockg

jmwant said:


> Considering the price, do you think Nekocake is a Better buy?


Sadly, I have no experience with those buds.


----------



## tinyman392

scarpeta said:


> Hello everyone, first of all sorry for my English, I wanted to know if two utws5 can be used with the same device (mobile phone)
> 
> I have one attached to a Monarch MKI and would like to purchase another to attach to an IMR Astra Ultraque.
> 
> ...


I have two UTWS3 that I used on the same phone.  Though I’ve never used them together.  However, the ability to use them together depends on your phone and how many simultaneous BT connections it could do concurrently.  Keep in mind that other BT devices may eat up a BT connection as well.  That said I’ve had my phone connected to my Apple Watch and 2-3 BT headphones at the same time.  Note that for audio, my phone will only output to one output at a time (AirPods an an exception with audio sharing).


----------



## botmann

clerkpalmer said:


> ...   refurbished from Jabra for 80. ...  a decent workout bud? ....


I have owned those Jabra.   I did own a Jabra set or a Jaybird.  They were the set broke in my backpack and the wired control went bad from my sweat.   The latter was wireless, but the earpiece were connect by a wire; these were  purchased before TWS was a thing.

Anyway, since I cannot comment on that specific set, I can give some general advise/recommendations for workout headphones.   I do recommend TWS headphones.   Not dealing with any kind of wire is saves a hassle of moving it out the way and one less thing to get caught on the equipment.   Some wires may create microphonics from bouncing off you.   I would also suggest something cheap (this is relative) that you're not going to get very upset if they get ruined, such from your sweat, or stolen (not necessary uncommon at gyms).   Soundpeats offers some solid cheap TWS (they can be found on Amazon).   Next, I would suggest getting a minimum IPX4 or higher.   I've had IPX3 or no rating TWS and did not have issues.   I tend to sweat like a water fountain, especially on the Stairmaster.   These cheaper headsets will have comprises that you have decide are within your limits of your needs/wants.   Soundpeats to be a little bassy; no where near a Beats by Dre.   

I only mention the Soundpeats because this is brand I have used for years as my cheap TWS.   I use them specifically for the gym or outside of the home.   I like you have the option, on almost all their TWS, to use either ear piece by itself.   Usually when walking about in the city.  They're cheap enough that if they were stolen, I would be more upset about the annoyance of replacing them than the cost.   The cheapest TWS are solid.  The battery lasted about 2 to 3 hours.   I would keep a second pair on my pair for my long work days.   The Trueengine 3, I used a fancier set for out and about.   They're more bass-heavy, but another solid.  I did use them at the gym with no problems.   The H1s I liked best because they were lease basey, which gave a more reference level; not reference though.   I have not used them at the gym.    The only issue I have had, the ear filter came off on the Trueengine 3 and H1.   I was able get Soundpeats to give refund or give a large discount to replace them.  Turns out you can purchase ear filters pretty cheap from third parties.   Their customer service is pretty friendly and will try to work with your to find a solution that will work with you and them.  All the TWS are not the Apple iPod shaped.   They're more like the Galaxy, Sony, Sennheiser TWS shaped.   Trueengine 3 and H1 are dual driver.   None of the ones I tried are ANC.   As much as H1s are my favorites from them, it's hard for recommend at $80US.   I think, other than cheapest ones, their earphones are a good value in the $40-$50US range.  The H1s are an alright value at $60-65US.   There are other sets for a better value and sound at $80, especially some very popular, highly and well reviewed ones at discount price in that range.

I don't think it really matters much if headset is touch control vs buttons.   This may be more dependent on your listening habits while working out.   I either watched movies, tv shows, or sport games while on the stairmaster.   When lifting weights, I mainly listen sport talk shows or sports game.   I wasn't skipping to the next song or something.   I set the volume and left it.   WIth TWS, you will need to have your material source, I assume your smartphone, near year.   I suggest keeping a workout towel so you can cover/hide it while next to you.   This assumes you're not keeping on you.   Although the odds of someone taking your phone is probably low, some people may try to steal it when you're not paying attention such as doing a set for weight lifting.   And depending on wireless headset, the person could be close to out the door before the signal starts to breakup enough to give you indication something is wrong.


----------



## samandhi

jant71 said:


> Pretty sure that the same people that make the buds for Marshall also makes these. Similar to the Mode II. Of course being Addidas and geared for sports, the gym etc., one would think ANC would be good to have but sadly no. IPX5 a bit light as well for that purpose.


Yep, it is Zound Industries. They make Marshall, Urbanears, and Addidas.


----------



## tiagopinto

Caipirina said:


> No worries, it started Sept 2017, so, only 4.5 years worth of posts  you can do it
> 
> But yeah. Search function is your friend.
> Enjoy our little rabbit hole.



We must be referring to different threads. 

Which one is that one?


----------



## tiagopinto

samandhi said:


> Oh, I totally get that. But I might suggest starting about halfway (or a bit further) in. About that time is when a guy named @ WoodyLuvr  and @ ClieOS (and I'm sure others as well) started putting together a database of all the (worthy) earbuds. Earbuds tend to stick around longer than IEMs being as how they are a bit more niche, they don't put out a new one every month. Either way this list DOES have some discontinued models, but most are still either current, or fairly current.
> 
> The good news is that you don't really even need to read it all anyhow. WoodyLuvr also put together a (sort of) questionnaire that you can answer and recommendations will be given based on that (it really IS very efficient and helpful). It looks like this:
> 
> ...



I just did a search for Variations in there, and nothing came up. 

Am I in the wrong place?


----------



## samandhi

tiagopinto said:


> I just did a search for Variations in there, and nothing came up.
> 
> Am I in the wrong place?


Those aren't earbuds my friend. Those are IEMs.  I get it that most people don't really know the difference between earbuds, IEMs, earphones nowadays because everyone refers to anything that is not headphones as earbuds (of which they are not). THESE are an example of earbuds. 

I guess it is my fault for not explaining better earlier when I pointed you to that thread. I assumed you were aware that I was talking about (flathead, true, or classic) earbuds. Sorry about that!


----------



## guitarizt

I said the az09 pro sounded bad before, but I was streaming sbc on my linux pc. I fixed it to stream ldac. I'm assuming the az09's are using apt-x now because it sounds way better than I remember it. I'll have to a/b it later, but it really reminds me of my olinas with vent mod on my utws3's. Crazy! I'm really loving everything but the timeless on the utws3's and I suspect the az09 pros. I wonder if it's because it's taking the cable out of the mix.


----------



## samandhi

guitarizt said:


> I said the az09 pro sounded bad before, but I was streaming sbc on my linux pc. I fixed it to stream ldac. I'm assuming the az09's are using apt-x now because it sounds way better than I remember it. I'll have to a/b it later, but it really reminds me of my olinas with vent mod on my utws3's. Crazy! I'm really loving everything but the timeless on the utws3's and I suspect the az09 pros. I wonder if it's because it's taking the cable out of the mix.


Because they are planar, I would suspect that the UTWS3 doesn't have enough current to drive them properly. Though, I can't say for sure because I don't have the Fiio. And yes, another factor is taking the wire out of play.


----------



## Tjdx (Feb 27, 2022)

Something really weird (at least for me) just happenned with the SP Mini Pro, I was doing some more music listening and trying to focus on the bass spectrum... after some test etc I re activate de ANC and the bass really went up (here is 23:19 and is very quiet) is kinda like the ANC also have a different EQ... weird, I havent notice this change in the sound profile or at least not a big of a change in others devices when activating ANC, right now im liking way more the sound with ANC on, I turned it off for the sake of having a longer runtime.

Listened a few seconds ago:

Sly Boogy - That'z My Name - The Clean.

Listening right now:

Sin - Hard EBM.

Already went thru some 80s classic and a few song from Labyrinth OST (bowie).

Schedule for the rest of my Sunday work (U_U")

Tron OST and maybe some House.

Edit: just adding that under a S21 Ultra 5G this are (reported in developer options) running on Aptx, 16 Bits, 44.1 khz.


----------



## Caipirina

tiagopinto said:


> We must be referring to different threads.
> 
> Which one is that one?


My bad, probably, I thought you were referring to this very thread right here


----------



## Caipirina

clerkpalmer said:


> Any opinions on the Elite 85t? They are available refurbished from Jabra for 80. Would these be a decent workout bud? Do they have physical buttons? Thanks.


Physical buttons: yes! And they make great winter running buds (under winter hats), not sure if I would find them stable enough for regular work out. In my case they are gentle resting in the ear, not stuck firmly in like so many other IEM style TWS ...  I love the sound and the ANC and at 80 they are a really good value IMHO


----------



## tiagopinto

samandhi said:


> Those aren't earbuds my friend. Those are IEMs.  I get it that most people don't really know the difference between earbuds, IEMs, earphones nowadays because everyone refers to anything that is not headphones as earbuds (of which they are not). THESE are an example of earbuds.
> 
> I guess it is my fault for not explaining better earlier when I pointed you to that thread. I assumed you were aware that I was talking about (flathead, true, or classic) earbuds. Sorry about that!



Ah, mea culpa then... I misinterpreted the nomenclature. I’m not at all interested in earbuds. I’m interested in IEMs (with a detachable cable), so I may do some wired critical listening and I may convert them to TWS with the adaptors, for mobile convenience with better sound.


----------



## Caipirina

samandhi said:


> Those aren't earbuds my friend. Those are IEMs.  I get it that most people don't really know the difference between earbuds, IEMs, earphones nowadays because everyone refers to anything that is not headphones as earbuds (of which they are not). THESE are an example of earbuds.
> 
> I guess it is my fault for not explaining better earlier when I pointed you to that thread. I assumed you were aware that I was talking about (flathead, true, or classic) earbuds. Sorry about that!


I remember too well how often we had the discussion in the past about earbuds vs. IEMs ... how to find them on amazon / aliexpress (FLAT earbuds works often) and that was all before the advent of TWS .. now THOSE are too often referred to as earbuds / BT earbuds ... there is no clear nomenclature ...


----------



## Ceeluh7

Caipirina said:


> I remember too well how often we had the discussion in the past about earbuds vs. IEMs ... how to find them on amazon / aliexpress (FLAT earbuds works often) and that was all before the advent of TWS .. now THOSE are too often referred to as earbuds / BT earbuds ... there is no clear nomenclature ...


Ya anymore if you want to search strictly for actual earbuds on something like Amazon you have to search the actual name of the product instead of a broad search of actual earbuds. Unless someone else has a better way of searching them out. Every now and again I like to throw in some earbuds and I have a few of them but much more prefer iems/tws


----------



## samandhi

Ceeluh7 said:


> Ya anymore if you want to search strictly for actual earbuds on something like Amazon you have to search the actual name of the product instead of a broad search of actual earbuds. Unless someone else has a better way of searching them out. Every now and again I like to throw in some earbuds and I have a few of them but much more prefer iems/tws


I have found that it is the same way trying to do a google search. If you search for earbuds, it usually only pulls up TWS.

I have a daily rotation, and there is at least one pair of buds in that mix normally. With the purchase of the Linkbuds though, I think those double as earbuds AND TWS so there is that...  I can't say I like one type more than the other, unless that is the mood I am in. I like all of my IEMs/TWS/earbuds/headphones (almost) equally... 

On that note, I STILL get sore ears from the material used on the concha part of the Linkbuds. Those foams I put on them alleviate that issue for me, so comfort (for me) is supreme with them. I am still amazed at how good they sound (with a bit of EQ from the app).


----------



## botmann

Ceeluh7 said:


> ... if you want to search strictly for actual earbuds on something like Amazon you have to search the actual name of the product instead of a broad search of actual earbuds. ....


In my experience, this is the best method.   Sadly, it's still not guaranteed because the algorithms will still try to push similar products.  Thus, you may get earbuds when wanting IEM.   Although, earbuds may not be as popular, one may get IEMs or OTE because the big-name consumer manufacturers are pushing those types of models.  Heck, the last earbuds I got, all came with other devices such as smartphones or Roku players.


----------



## guitarizt

samandhi said:


> Because they are planar, I would suspect that the UTWS3 doesn't have enough current to drive them properly. Though, I can't say for sure because I don't have the Fiio. And yes, another factor is taking the wire out of play.


Yep, that's what I guessed as well, planar is crazy. The timeless are my hardest to drive and most finnicky iem's, buds, or headphones. It's funny because the tanya comes in second. I've lost my mind and looking at getting a dac/amp around 400-500 range, but it's been a struggle researching and I've been going around in circles.

Getting back to tws, the leas on my az09 pro's are incredible. Really get close to the olinas on my utws3's. I'd say my galaxy pro's are between the two, although I don't like the sound signature. All three are great, but the olina's are special. Hopefully I can try the bud pros on a samsung phone this month. It's weird because the aria's I still think are objectively better than the leas, but I just keep going for the leas. I think because it's a less fatiguing sound sig and more comfortable maybe.


----------



## Ceeluh7

guitarizt said:


> Yep, that's what I guessed as well, planar is crazy. The timeless are my hardest to drive and most finnicky iem's, buds, or headphones. It's funny because the tanya comes in second. I've lost my mind and looking at getting a dac/amp around 400-500 range, but it's been a struggle researching and I've been going around in circles.
> 
> Getting back to tws, the leas on my az09 pro's are incredible. Really get close to the olinas on my utws3's. I'd say my galaxy pro's are between the two, although I don't like the sound signature. All three are great, but the olina's are special. Hopefully I can try the bud pros on a samsung phone this month. It's weird because the aria's I still think are objectively better than the leas, but I just keep going for the leas. I think because it's a less fatiguing sound sig and more comfortable maybe.


I use the AZ09 Pro with my KZ ZAS and I freaking love that setup... Must be kz synergy. The ZAS are awesome to me man. They are budget and I have much more expensive iems but I really enjoy that fun sound signature on the az09 pro. I doubted the 09P from the second I purchased them, I figured they'd be junk. However I heard something different. Also they fit better to me than any Fiio units. Now, compared to the utws3/5 they do lag behind, but not much if you pair them with something easy to drive and with a warmer tonality. Olina is a game changer for me. Even next to the Mangird Tea and doing a very unfair a/b between the two... Dude... I like Olina better. Obviously not everyone has my taste and all is subjective Yada Yada but... They are legit. I read a review somewhere that stated the Aria was hands down better than the Olina... I thought... "I have been A/B'ing the two for over an hour and I could not begin to know what world this person is coming from!" I'm guessing there is more to the story but... That's not for me to get into. Anywhoo... I'm glad you get to enjoy them man. They aren't giant killers but they are very well done. Did you come to any better conclusion of what dac/amp you are thinking of?


----------



## jant71 (Feb 28, 2022)

Caipirina said:


>


That reminds me last week I was surfing and saw this episode was on...



Such a sad story of loss. 



guitarizt said:


> Getting back to tws, the leas on my az09 pro's are incredible. Really get close to the olinas on my utws3's. I'd say my galaxy pro's are between the two, although I don't like the sound signature. All three are great, but the olina's are special. Hopefully I can try the bud pros on a samsung phone this month. It's weird because the aria's I still think are objectively better than the leas, but I just keep going for the leas. I think because it's a less fatiguing sound sig and more comfortable maybe.


I hear the Olina are on the brighter side. Maybe even a bit more than the Oxygen then imitate. This would make them good for BT where most of the time some highs are lost.


....and well I have been checking out the LavaBeans for a bit. Of course the battery life on the case is great. Only down to 96% so far. I tested the included tips. Same as Gamesky says, the shiny firmer ones give more bass and the other softer give more clarity. The issue with the tips is they give S/M/L in the bassy tips but only S/M in the other so they left out the large. i would have liked the large. The bassy tips were the cause mostly of the thicker bass end incoherence. Did need a little running time to tame the bass though. I like  TWS style tips on the "Beans" Like Spiral Dot SF and the CKS50TW tips. The sound is legit. Above the like of the Aviot and JVC and even the Jabra even w/o aptX like the others. Close to the AT with the screens removed(on my Cowon where they top out with aptX). Right tips and they play in the above $100 level.

Fit is good, again the touch is just right even for a button fan like me. Stability is great. Even went to the DAPs where reception can be more spotty than a phone and they outdid the AT which is really solid. Beat them in the back pocket test.

Great TWS really. An excellent deal. Wish they had ambient or come with an ANC model cause I would try that. But, beamform mics, Qi charging, ton of battery, great stability, good controls, very good sound, 2 year warranty for $16 is nuts and still good for the $39.99. The best deal yet!


----------



## guitarizt

Ceeluh7 said:


> I use the AZ09 Pro with my KZ ZAS and I freaking love that setup... Must be kz synergy. The ZAS are awesome to me man. They are budget and I have much more expensive iems but I really enjoy that fun sound signature on the az09 pro. I doubted the 09P from the second I purchased them, I figured they'd be junk. However I heard something different. Also they fit better to me than any Fiio units. Now, compared to the utws3/5 they do lag behind, but not much if you pair them with something easy to drive and with a warmer tonality. Olina is a game changer for me. Even next to the Mangird Tea and doing a very unfair a/b between the two... Dude... I like Olina better. Obviously not everyone has my taste and all is subjective Yada Yada but... They are legit. I read a review somewhere that stated the Aria was hands down better than the Olina... I thought... "I have been A/B'ing the two for over an hour and I could not begin to know what world this person is coming from!" I'm guessing there is more to the story but... That's not for me to get into. Anywhoo... I'm glad you get to enjoy them man. They aren't giant killers but they are very well done. Did you come to any better conclusion of what dac/amp you are thinking of?


Darn, i thought the zas was like $35 but is 2x as much. I'm a bit scared of kz, maybe because I think crin is critical of them, and I wasn't a fan of the kz crn's, although they had a diff tuning than kz.

The az09 pro's do something weird to the eq that works so well with the leas. When I eq them, I have to adjust stuff insanely aggressively to make changes. Wish I could try the olinas with them, someone on the olina thread said they work well, but they don't fit without cutting the rubber around the pins on the 09's and I'll keep them stock for now.

For amp dac, I was leaning towards the khadas tone 2 pro and topping l50 since Jason Lucas (also z audio likes tone 2) recommended that in the thread I started on his fb, but someone I msg'ed on here said they liked the ifi black label over the tone 2 pro. They also said the go blu gets 90% of the way to the black label which is interesting. That's enough of a diff to push me to the black label, but they also said they'd look at the gryphon for future proofing and for hard to drive headphones. I trust his thoughts cause he's from Denver and owned or owns the tone 2, black label, and go blu.

The nightmare continues. It sucks I got all diff recommendations on Lucas's fb group, lol!


----------



## Ceeluh7

guitarizt said:


> Darn, i thought the zas was like $35 but is 2x as much. I'm a bit scared of kz, maybe because I think crin is critical of them, and I wasn't a fan of the kz crn's, although they had a diff tuning than kz.
> 
> The az09 pro's do something weird to the eq that works so well with the leas. When I eq them, I have to adjust stuff insanely aggressively to make changes. Wish I could try the olinas with them, someone on the olina thread said they work well, but they don't fit without cutting the rubber around the pins on the 09's and I'll keep them stock for now.
> 
> ...


That's only because not everyone can try everything. Ifi stuff is good... Khadas stuff is good too, you won't be disappointed with either man. The Gryphon is a beast at 1000 mw @32 ohms, kinda like the TRI Tk-2 I told you about but alot more expensive ($400 more I think) and I'm sure better in many ways. Ya it's tough, people will rec the stuff they have, they always do. Topping makes fantastic dac/amps and the Tone 2 is is also great. It's tough out there in this hobby... Lol. 

Ya I would not put the Olina on the az09 pro... Just not enough power. Personally I believe you need at least something like a Go Blu or a good dongle like the Ka3 to drive them to their max capabilities. That said, I think they sound good still off of lesser sources. I could only imagine how nice they'd open up with something like the Topping L50 or Tone 2 Pro.


----------



## Ceeluh7

jant71 said:


> That reminds me last week I was surfing and saw this episode was on...
> 
> Such a sad story of loss.
> 
> ...


That's great man, I'll have to pick these up


----------



## Dobrescu George

Let's start the week with a pair of TWS IEMs that left a really positive impression, the TW-E3B, from Yamaha Audio Romania & HIFI Expert!! 

If you're looking for one of the lightest, most comfortable pair of TWS IEMs around, and if you want to have the support of one of the best shops in Romania, this review should be just the thing for you~ 

https://www.audiophile-heaven.com/2...a-tw-e3b-tws-iems-music-composer-strikes.html


----------



## samandhi

Ceeluh7 said:


> I use the AZ09 Pro with my KZ ZAS and I freaking love that setup... Must be kz synergy. The ZAS are awesome to me man. They are budget and I have much more expensive iems but I really enjoy that fun sound signature on the az09 pro. I doubted the 09P from the second I purchased them, I figured they'd be junk. However I heard something different. Also they fit better to me than any Fiio units. Now, compared to the utws3/5 they do lag behind, but not much if you pair them with something easy to drive and with a warmer tonality. Olina is a game changer for me. Even next to the Mangird Tea and doing a very unfair a/b between the two... Dude... I like Olina better. Obviously not everyone has my taste and all is subjective Yada Yada but... They are legit. I read a review somewhere that stated the Aria was hands down better than the Olina... I thought... "I have been A/B'ing the two for over an hour and I could not begin to know what world this person is coming from!" I'm guessing there is more to the story but... That's not for me to get into. Anywhoo... I'm glad you get to enjoy them man. They aren't giant killers but they are very well done. Did you come to any better conclusion of what dac/amp you are thinking of?


This is how I feel about my CCA CRA (Same company). I have much more expensive IEMs but I keep reaching for these; though I don't have a BT adaptor yet (still waiting for the UTWS5 to be available on Amazon). 


guitarizt said:


> Darn, i thought the zas was like $35 but is 2x as much. I'm a bit scared of kz, maybe because I think crin is critical of them, and I wasn't a fan of the kz crn's, although they had a diff tuning than kz.
> 
> The az09 pro's do something weird to the eq that works so well with the leas. When I eq them, I have to adjust stuff insanely aggressively to make changes. Wish I could try the olinas with them, someone on the olina thread said they work well, but they don't fit without cutting the rubber around the pins on the 09's and I'll keep them stock for now.
> 
> ...


If you haven't already, check out the CCA CRA. They are made by the sister company of KZ. Some say that the IEMs from CCA are cleaned up/fixed versions of KZ. Just some food for thought!


----------



## jant71 (Feb 28, 2022)

So, I see the Technics have an update now so the AZ60 can do multipoint with LDAC. Also something about improving the volume control. Guess on the Japanese site first so not an English one just yet? https://re-how.net/all/1734153/

Edit: Fixed for clarity - MP for LDAC only affects the AZ60 but both a volume improvement update.


----------



## Ceeluh7

jant71 said:


> So, I see the Technics have an update now so the AZ40 and AZ60 can do multipoint with LDAC. Also something about improving the volume control. Guess on the Japanese site first so not an English one just yet? https://re-how.net/all/1734153/


So az40 will also now have ldac? Wow... Cool


----------



## jant71 (Feb 28, 2022)

Ceeluh7 said:


> So az40 will also now have ldac? Wow... Cool


Guess not. They just lump them together for firmware updates. The 40 would only get the volume control part of it. They should add it since they stripped it of enough stuff.


----------



## Ceeluh7

jant71 said:


> Guess not. They just lump them together for firmware updates. The 40 would only get the volume control part of it. They should add it since they stripped it of enough stuff.


Gotcha... Sorry man I realize I read that wrong


----------



## dweaver

jant71 said:


> So, I see the Technics have an update now so the AZ40 and AZ60 can do multipoint with LDAC. Also something about improving the volume control. Guess on the Japanese site first so not an English one just yet? https://re-how.net/all/1734153/


Will be watching for this!


----------



## Caipirina

I'll be late to the party again ... but amazon here had the Lib3Pro at 30$ off and I still had 20$ in points from my Linkbuds purchase .. sooooo  gonna get mail again tomorrow ... yay me


----------



## Ceeluh7

Caipirina said:


> I'll be late to the party again ... but amazon here had the Lib3Pro at 30$ off and I still had 20$ in points from my Linkbuds purchase .. sooooo  gonna get mail again tomorrow ... yay me


Sweet man... L3P is a great set for sure.


----------



## guitarizt

samandhi said:


> This is how I feel about my CCA CRA (Same company). I have much more expensive IEMs but I keep reaching for these; though I don't have a BT adaptor yet (still waiting for the UTWS5 to be available on Amazon).
> 
> If you haven't already, check out the CCA CRA. They are made by the sister company of KZ. Some say that the IEMs from CCA are cleaned up/fixed versions of KZ. Just some food for thought!


I actually ordered them I think last week.


----------



## dweaver

Just updating AZ60 as I type


----------



## dweaver

OK update is complete and I am hearing serious differences in sound. For me good differences. Don't want to set expectation bias so not wanting to say what's different but any one try the update yet?

Will post some more details tomorrow but really curious if anyone is hearing a change in sound ...


----------



## Ultrainferno

In our newest article we're looking at the Noble Audio Fokus Pro TWS, an article by @Aerosphere 

https://www.headfonia.com/noble-audio-fokus-pro-review/


----------



## DigDub

Updated the az60 firmware as well. I stilll get the message about LDAC not in use when multipoint is turned on in the app, but have verified in the phone that LDAC is in use after multipoint is turned on.

As for the sound, there seems to be a crisper mid-high and a more powerful bass.


----------



## dmphile

I went to work yesterday via public transit using the AZ60's and man, I was really impressed with their ANC levels. It was pretty comparable to my overhead XM4's, minus passive noise isolation. Technics have really impressed me so far with their firmware updates and efforts. I returned the B&O EQ's mainly for their horrible user experience and lack of basic functions even though their SQ was amazing. Technics has not let me down so far!


----------



## dweaver

DigDub said:


> Updated the az60 firmware as well. I stilll get the message about LDAC not in use when multipoint is turned on in the app, but have verified in the phone that LDAC is in use after multipoint is turned on.
> 
> As for the sound, there seems to be a crisper mid-high and a more powerful bass.


I definitely noticed the crisper highs, I actually find the bass a little less thick and tighter than it was before, a bit less boom if you will. The overall sound is a bit more balanced. I think the dynamics are also improved.

I also have multipoint enabled using LDAC, definitely a big step up.

They just took the AZ60 to the next level for me.


----------



## DigDub

dweaver said:


> I definitely noticed the crisper highs, I actually find the bass a little less thick and tighter than it was before, a bit less boom if you will. The overall sound is a bit more balanced. I think the dynamics are also improved.
> 
> I also have multipoint enabled using LDAC, definitely a big step up.
> 
> They just took the AZ60 to the next level for me.


I find the bass less boomy as well. By powerful, I mean the sub bass has more rumble now. 

The multipoint supports one device for media playing and the other device supports voice calls.


----------



## dweaver (Mar 1, 2022)

I would agree with that in regards to sub-bass. I find the bass somewhere in between the AZ70 and the original AZ60 sound. The highs are now also closer to the AZ70 as well. It a more mature sound in my opinion, definitely makes them more musical to my ears.


----------



## Juns

Anyone tried Morph Audio Tribe TWS? I cannot find reviews.


----------



## scarpeta

Phaethon said:


> Great question. You can make the connections but they will be named the same thing. Very confusing. So I deleted both connections and paired them one at a time - renaming them “2 pin“ and “ MMCX”. Worked perfectly and I could keep them straight.


Thank you very much for your answer, you are right, I had not thought about it. I'll do it like that.

Thanks


----------



## james444 (Mar 1, 2022)

I'm looking for a low profile TWS mainly for listening to podcasts at night. Decent sound quality for occasional music would be nice, but isn't my top priority.

Essential features:

must feel comfy when lying sideways on a pillow
no accidental firing of (touch) controls when lying sideways
battery life at least 6-7 hours
Can be either IEM or earbud style. Closest match I've found so far are the Oppo Enco Air2. They're comfy, stay in my ears and touch controls can be completely turned off via app. However, they last only 4 hours at max on a single charge.

Any suggestions? Thanks in advance!


----------



## C_Lindbergh

The AZ60 keeps getting better, its defo the most well-rounded TWS out there atm imo  

Everything just works, the case is tiny, great sound quality and easy to toggle between ANC/Ambient.


----------



## Luchyres

C_Lindbergh said:


> The AZ60 keeps getting better, its defo the most well-rounded TWS out there atm imo
> 
> Everything just works, the case is tiny, great sound quality and easy to toggle between ANC/Ambient.


Apologies, did try to search - but can anyone compare and contrast the latest AZ60 with the ATH-CKS50TW? I'm unashamedly into bass and like to be able to EQ my headphones - and value call quality. No LDAC devices here, sadly.


----------



## VICosPhi

DigDub said:


> I find the bass less boomy as well. By powerful, I mean the sub bass has more rumble now.
> 
> The multipoint supports one device for media playing and the other device supports voice calls.


Wow if they actually increased sub bass on AZ60 and reduced mid-bass that is exactly what it needed. I will update mine now!!


----------



## ekjellgren

What about Galaxy Buds Pro, regarded as crap? I'm thinking these as a walk-around pair. And later getting a good IEM and perhaps the UTWS5 for walks.


----------



## Ceeluh7

ekjellgren said:


> What about Galaxy Buds Pro, regarded as crap? I'm thinking these as a walk-around pair. And later getting a good IEM and perhaps the UTWS5 for walks.


Galaxy buds pro are nice man. They aren't the top tier in SQ but I use them quite alot as they have a ton of features. The utws5 is a big step up in SQ as there is just so much more room for a good dac/amp housed within. Get a decent set of iems and that set-up suddenly beats darn near every tws out there with maybe one or two exceptions depending on what iems you put on it


----------



## dmphile

ekjellgren said:


> What about Galaxy Buds Pro, regarded as crap? I'm thinking these as a walk-around pair. And later getting a good IEM and perhaps the UTWS5 for walks.


Once you step into the UTWS5 game and pair it with a good IEM, there's no going back. That path alone will take you down a dark and wonderous journey that will only end up in glorious audio bliss and enjoyment.


----------



## C_Lindbergh

dmphile said:


> Once you step into the UTWS5 game and pair it with a good IEM, there's no going back. That path alone will take you down a dark and wonderous journey that will only end up in glorious audio bliss and enjoyment.



Can't really compare a TWS with the UTWS5 for several reasons imo...

UTWS5 lacks various features like ANC etc
Case is muuuch larger and the set-up is way bulkier.


----------



## dmphile

C_Lindbergh said:


> Can't really compare a TWS with the UTWS5 for several reasons imo...
> 
> UTWS5 lacks various features like ANC etc
> Case is muuuch larger and the set-up is way bulkier.


For sure, but that's not why I bought the UTWS5. I have a separate pair for those features (AZ60's) but for casual listening in a non-mobile environment, I always pull out my UTWS5 with my Dorados.  Portability and features is not what goes through my mind when I pull out the UTWS5 combo. I pull out the combo when I want the absolute best SQ.


----------



## dweaver

Loving the firmware update on the AZ60 as it has elevated the sound signature for me. In comparison to the UTWS5/FH5 combo it is a more midrange forward signature with heavier bass (mid and sub), and the treble is less emphasized.

The update elevated the highs to a point where I am a bit more engaged. But I have grown used to the FH5 so might need to tone down the bass via EQ.

Not sure if it's the single driver versus 4 driver hybrid but the FH5 is much more detailed, spacious, and 3D in presentation that I find very satisfying. I think it might just be having to stuff everything into a crammed space of a TWS versus being able to give the drivers room in a traditional IEM that make the difference though.

Sure having fun listening to both .


----------



## dweaver

james444 said:


> I'm looking for a low profile TWS mainly for listening to podcasts at night. Decent sound quality for occasional music would be nice, but isn't my top priority.
> 
> Essential features:
> 
> ...


1More Comfobuds Z might fit your need.


----------



## Ceeluh7

dweaver said:


> Loving the firmware update on the AZ60 as it has elevated the sound signature for me. In comparison to the UTWS5/FH5 combo it is a more midrange forward signature with heavier bass (mid and sub), and the treble is less emphasized.
> 
> The update elevated the highs to a point where I am a bit more engaged. But I have grown used to the FH5 so might need to tone down the bass via EQ.
> 
> ...


Dude... The FH5 are awesome iems. The difference is the implementation of really good drivers that tws just can't match yet. You are very right that tws just have so much to cram in and they have to resort to the SOC dac in the chip whereas utws5 have a really good dac/amp. I know you know this but am bored so I figured I'd spell it out. In fact I am loving the utws5 with the Mele at the moment. I hop between different iems and still, I have yet to hear something that doesn't sound good. The second I can get another utws5 I will. Even compared to the Utws3 I have spent enough time going back and forth that the difference between both adapters starts to show. Hard to hear at first I think. Though it isn't very big of a difference but a difference nonetheless. Ever since you and I were talking about the FH5 I have listened to them alot more and I really enjoy the signature. Even next to the Hana 2021, Mangird Tea... The FH5 just do what they do really well. It is Def a good iem to be happy with until you search for better sets.


----------



## erockg

These Noble Falcon ANC buds are finally up: https://www.nobleaudio.com/wireless/p/falcon-anc


----------



## dmphile

erockg said:


> These Noble Falcon ANC buds are finally up: https://www.nobleaudio.com/wireless/p/falcon-anc


Now all Noble has to do is cross breed the Falcon ANC with the Fokus Pro's and then we can have a proper baby shower. 🤣


----------



## C_Lindbergh

Qualcomm recently annonced new BT 5.3 SoC! 

https://www.qualcomm.com/products/qualcomm-s3-sound-platform

https://www.qualcomm.com/products/qualcomm-s5-sound-platform

The future with LE Audio looks interesting!


----------



## Caipirina (Mar 2, 2022)

Got the liberty 3 pro and overall I am very impressed, even more than when I tried them
In-store, this time I could change all the wings & tips and such.
But I am left with a puzzle. I am trying to activate LDAC … I googled and found helpful videos and the manual says the same …. Click on Sound mode in the app … wait … I have no sound mode option!
App & FW are up to date. What’s wrong with this picture? (YouTube screen grab next to my iOS app screen) 


Searched this thread for ‘Sound mode’ … not the best search term

edit: good thing I have also an android phone flying around for music stuff. There the app does have the elusive ’sound mode’ option and promptly proceeded with downloading a firmware update (while IOS told me I was up to date after having done an FW update after I unboxed the buds a few hours ago) … managed now to connect to my LDAC players in LDAC, iOS remains without sound mode option … strange.


----------



## botmann

Caipirina said:


> Got the liberty 3 pro and overall I am very impressed, even more than when I tried them
> In-store, this time I could change all the wings & tips and such.
> But I am left with a puzzle. I am trying to activate LDAC … I googled and found helpful videos and the manual says the same …. Click on Sound mode in the app … wait … I have no sound mode option!
> App & FW are up to date. What’s wrong with this picture?
> ...


I have not used the L3Ps, so I can only give general information.   I use SoundPeats H1s mostly for a frame of reference, which do not have LDAC; AptX and AptX HD (I think).   I do have BTR5 that does have LDAC.   

Most BT devices automatically switch to a codec that the sources and headphones support.   Some apps can influence this.    If you have an android phone, you can kind of force the issue.   If you go into developer mode, under developer options, there is a section that can enable LDAC.   I have used it on a Note 20 Ultra.  The bad part, it would only use LDAC, no AptX.  If LDAC wasn't available, it would go to SBAC.


----------



## Caipirina

botmann said:


> I have not used the L3Ps, so I can only give general information.   I use SoundPeats H1s mostly for a frame of reference, which do not have LDAC; AptX and AptX HD (I think).   I do have BTR5 that does have LDAC.
> 
> Most BT devices automatically switch to a codec that the sources and headphones support.   Some apps can influence this.    If you have an android phone, you can kind of force the issue.   If you go into developer mode, under developer options, there is a section that can enable LDAC.   I have used it on a Note 20 Ultra.  The bad part, it would only use LDAC, no AptX.  If LDAC wasn't available, it would go to SBAC.


Thanks, I recall there was a more in depth discussion on LDAC and all its flavors here before.

My issue seems more Soundcore app specific, as in ‘in iOS there is an important button / option missing’ and I was wondering if anyone else encountered that, what the possible work around is (other than what I did now, get an android phone)


----------



## Juns

erockg said:


> These Noble Falcon ANC buds are finally up: https://www.nobleaudio.com/wireless/p/falcon-anc


I hate the design. Hope it sounds better.


----------



## bladefd

dweaver said:


> Just want to give a shoutout to @bladefd I ended up getting a Resmed N30i because of your prompting and advice. Very similar to the Dreamwear nose pillow and it might be a game changer for me.


Good to hear!


----------



## jant71 (Mar 2, 2022)

Juns said:


> I hate the design. Hope it sounds better *than it looks*.


There, I finished that for ya. 

Okay... https://www.wisear.io/ ...Discuss


----------



## nekonhime

erockg said:


> These Noble Falcon ANC buds are finally up: https://www.nobleaudio.com/wireless/p/falcon-anc


Fokus pro anc fokus pro anc  fokus pro anc


----------



## bladefd

erockg said:


> These Noble Falcon ANC buds are finally up: https://www.nobleaudio.com/wireless/p/falcon-anc


Hmm, I like the pricing. They seem to jut out though almost like they would hang out of the ear. I look forward to early reviews to see how they are.


----------



## jant71

Anyone can translate see if there is anything interesting here...

First time I've seen the Ambie and Linkbuds together in a video.


----------



## james444

dweaver said:


> 1More Comfobuds Z might fit your need.



Thanks for your suggestion! Unfortunately though, according to Amazon reviews, the battery lasts only 2-3 hours on these, which is even shorter than on my Oppo.

The search continues...


----------



## cresny

Does anyone here have both the Devialet Gemini and the Technics AZ-60? I'm interested in the Technics but wondering if it's really just a side-grade.


----------



## Mouseman

Caipirina said:


> Thanks, I recall there was a more in depth discussion on LDAC and all its flavors here before.
> 
> My issue seems more Soundcore app specific, as in ‘in iOS there is an important button / option missing’ and I was wondering if anyone else encountered that, what the possible work around is (other than what I did now, get an android phone)


I could swear it used to be there, but I just checked and it's gone. They've issued multiple updates lately, I wonder if one of those did it. It requires updating the firmware to a different version, so I'll have to try changing it on my R5 and then going back to the iPhone.


----------



## erockg

cresny said:


> Does anyone here have both the Devialet Gemini and the Technics AZ-60? I'm interested in the Technics but wondering if it's really just a side-grade.


HAD.  Devialet for sound, the Technics Az60 for everything else IMO.  Although the ANC on the Gemini is pretty dang good.


----------



## darveniza

jant71 said:


> Anyone can translate see if there is anything interesting here...
> 
> First time I've seen the Ambie and Linkbuds together in a video.



Linkbuds have become my default for calls, Zoom and walking my dog.In particular their design makes them that you don't have to ever remove them during your day, at least for me


----------



## darveniza

erockg said:


> HAD.  Devialet for sound, the Technics Az60 for everything else IMO.  Although the ANC on the Gemini is pretty dang good.


What makes the Technics for me is the fit. There is something on the Gemini that make me want to take them out after 45 minutes


----------



## erockg

darveniza said:


> What makes the Technics for me is the fit. There is something on the Gemini that make me want to take them out after 45 minutes


The AZ60s do fit very well.


----------



## dweaver

james444 said:


> Thanks for your suggestion! Unfortunately though, according to Amazon reviews, the battery lasts only 2-3 hours on these, which is even shorter than on my Oppo.
> 
> The search continues...


Think of it as an auto stop LOL.


----------



## dmphile

I think the Technics is the most complete package when it comes to TWS that is thoughtfully and well executed with SQ, comfort, features, hardware and software support. No other OEM has been able to do it more properly than Technics IMO.


----------



## dweaver

I agree about the AZ60 being very complete and well done. They have out designed Sony is LDAC with multi-point. Actually scratch that because Sony can't even do multi-point... Signature is definitely a preference but I think Technics has a better handle on a balanced sound as well.


----------



## mt877

Caipirina said:


> Thanks, I recall there was a more in depth discussion on LDAC and all its flavors here before.
> 
> My issue seems more Soundcore app specific, as in ‘in iOS there is an important button / option missing’ and I was wondering if anyone else encountered that, what the possible work around is (other than what I did now, get an android phone)
> 
> ...


Wait a second here, when did iPhone implement LDAC? I thought iPhones were stuck on AAC only.


----------



## Caipirina

Mouseman said:


> I could swear it used to be there, but I just checked and it's gone. They've issued multiple updates lately, I wonder if one of those did it. It requires updating the firmware to a different version, so I'll have to try changing it on my R5 and then going back to the iPhone.


Glad I am not the only one / hallucinating …


----------



## Caipirina

mt877 said:


> Wait a second here, when did iPhone implement LDAC? I thought iPhones were stuck on AAC only.


Not to play LDAC on iPhone, but apparently you need to activate LDAC using the app (android / iPhone) and THEN it does LDAC on DAPs like the TempoTec V1 or Hiby R2 
Drove me nuts when I first connected the L3P to those and they showed AAC only …
Now all good, after activating LDAC using Redmi 9T phone (which also can’t do LDAC despite being Android 8+)


----------



## mt877

Caipirina said:


> Not to play LDAC on iPhone, but apparently you need to activate LDAC using the app (android / iPhone) and THEN it does LDAC on DAPs like the TempoTec V1 or Hiby R2
> Drove me nuts when I first connected the L3P to those and they showed AAC only …
> Now all good, after activating LDAC using Redmi 9T phone (which also can’t do LDAC despite being Android 8+)


Ahh, makes mo betta sense now. Was hoping LDAC was mysteriously enabled on iPhone and missed the announcement somehow.


----------



## EMINENT (Mar 2, 2022)

> Sennheiser Momentum True Wireless 3 Earbuds Will Arrive in April​For those waiting for the successor to the excellent Momentum True Wireless 2, Sennheiser says it will be unveiled next month.
> 
> David Carnoy
> http://www.twitter.com/DavidCarnoy
> ...



Interested to see how these do. Hope they learn from their mistakes and get better ip rating along with trimming down the big ass case and coming to times with wireless charging. Improving that God awful eq and including Hi Res Snapdragon Sound would be asking too much.

So, Crinacle says the IE600 are better than the IE900 at $700

In other news, I grabbed a pair of Linkbuds coming Friday for home bs use, Youtube etc., while being able to hear and work use at work with customers with a link to the outside world sounds like a nice work set while being aware of my surroundings.


----------



## dmphile (Mar 2, 2022)

EMINENT said:


> Interested to see how these do. Hope they learn from their mistakes and get better ip rating along with trimming down the big ass case and coming to times with wireless charging. Improving that God awful eq and including Hi Res Snapdragon Sound would be asking too much.
> 
> So, Crinacle says the IE600 are better than the IE900 at $700
> 
> In other news, I grabbed a pair of Linkbuds coming Friday for home bs use, Youtube etc., while being able to hear and work use at work with customers with a link to the outside world sounds like a nice work set while being aware of my surroundings.


Very curious to see how they're going to improve in version 3 of the M2's. There are some pretty obvious ones to me but sometimes not as obvious to the OEMs.... strangely. Basic questions for those that were a fan of the M2's, what would you like to see included / improved upon in the M3's?  

I'll start:

Multi-point
Better IP rating/ANC/Ambient mode
Wireless charging
Smaller more compact footprint
Killer sound w/ better imaging, soundstage and maybe even a hybrid setup (I know, wishful thinking)
I hope it's not another let down like Boses' QC45 launch... very anti-climatic...


----------



## TK33

dmphile said:


> Very curious to see how they're going to improve in version 3 of the M2's. There are some pretty obvious ones to me but sometimes not as obvious to the OEMs.... strangely. Basic questions for those that were a fan of the M2's, what would you like to see included / improved upon in the M3's?
> 
> I'll start:
> 
> ...


I only have the first version and skipped the MTW2 (have been waiting for the MTW3) but here is my wishlist:

1. Smaller size (earbuds and case)
2. Use left and right independently (i.e. not master slave and ability to switch seamlessly without disconnecting/reconnecting)
3. Wireless charging
5. Excellent call quality
6. Better codecs (I would be happy with aptX adaptive or aptX HD)
7. Keep price at $300
8. Better EQ of course

Playing field has gotten much more crowded and, while waiting for the MTW3, I have been very happy with my combination of the TW2, PI7s and Galaxy Buds Live/Buds2 so the MTW3 will have to offer something better or new for me to bite.  I don't think I am alone here...


----------



## mikp

TK33 said:


> I only have the first version and skipped the MTW2 (have been waiting for the MTW3) but here is my wishlist:
> 
> 1. Smaller size (earbuds and case)
> 2. Use left and right independently (i.e. not master slave and ability to switch seamlessly without disconnecting/reconnecting)
> ...


same thing here, i really like the mtw2, great sound. Smaller,thinner case would be good. Ldac maybe? But dont think so, will settle with adaptive aptx hd.


----------



## Tenlow

Curious about the MTW3! 

I loved the first generation but the battery drain problem and some reliability issues were pretty bad for me in the long run. The MTW2 sounded slightly "worse" to me and had some faint white noise issue but were still very good TWS. However, I had reliability issues with these as well and sold them after two warranty exchanges. 

Here's hope for the MTW3! What they need to address/change/improve for me: 

1. Reliabilty  
2. No master/slave connection 
3. Wireless charging 
4. Better call quality
5. Better ANC 
6. No white noise issue 
7. Slightly more battery life 
8. A bit louder would be nice, too. 

So, there's a lot of room for improvement but I will give them another chance for sure


----------



## Caipirina

Maybe I finally get the MTW2 when the price drops now  
(Currently 140$ used at e-earphone) 

Whatever happened to my resolution of "no more TWS until the APP2" ???


----------



## C_Lindbergh

Yeah I'm also curious about the MTW3...But at the same time I'm really satisfied with my AZ60. Don't really see the need of getting a new TWS until LE audio becomes more prominent.


----------



## dmphile

C_Lindbergh said:


> Yeah I'm also curious about the MTW3...But at the same time I'm really satisfied with my AZ60. Don't really see the need of getting a new TWS until LE audio becomes more prominent.


Agree - AZ60's check all the boxes for me too. They've gotta basically meet or exceed the current feature set of the AZ60's and then some to get me interested. Maybe if they manage to do some magic in the SQ dept, plus plus plus... I might consider.


----------



## guitarizt

Used the heart mirrors and dq6s iems on the az09 pros. The az09 pros are great. I think they're strongly eq'ing the iems somehow but in a good way. Impressed by the heart mirrors, I can see why people love them, but I really like the dq6s's. DQ6s + az09 pros are just an insane value for tws. DQ6s is about 27 on amazon from some sellers, and the az09 pro is 37. 64 + tax is an insane value for this sound. My go to recommendation for anyone wanting to try a good iem + bt hook. Or for anyone looking for something cheap to try. And the leas for 26 with the az09 pros are great as well for a diff sound sig.


----------



## Juturna

erockg said:


> HAD.  Devialet for sound, the Technics Az60 for everything else IMO.  Although the ANC on the Gemini is pretty dang good.


My Devialet Geminis really must be lemons because I just can't wrap my head around people rating them that high, my Technics AZ60 sound about 10x better without exaggerating.


----------



## Tenlow

Juturna said:


> My Devialet Geminis really must be lemons because I just can't wrap my head around people rating them that high, my Technics AZ60 sound about 10x better without exaggerating.


Admittedly, I have never heard the AZ60 but pretty much everything else  I would rate the Devialet pretty highly with regard to sound, honestly. Up there with the B&O EQ and above most of the others.


----------



## Juturna

Tenlow said:


> Admittedly, I have never heard the AZ60 but pretty much everything else  I would rate the Devialet pretty highly with regard to sound, honestly. Up there with the B&O EQ and above most of the others.


There's literally nothing I could do with the EQ to make the Devialets sound better than just "ok", the bass is nice for electronic music but the rest is pretty poor to me. Underemphasized mids that can't be equalized to sound good, highs that are sharp and tinny with some sibilance that is incredibly difficult to get rid, and there's like a sloppy mess in the upper mids where it can be difficult to make out details in some instruments. Idk, maybe my ears are just weird.


----------



## erockg

Juturna said:


> My Devialet Geminis really must be lemons because I just can't wrap my head around people rating them that high, my Technics AZ60 sound about 10x better without exaggerating.


Wow, well, I mean at least you found something better.  That's good.  I used to put my Gemini on Dynamic and tweak the EQ and loved them.  Granted, I've moved on to others at this time


----------



## jant71 (Mar 3, 2022)

Back to make amens...


Yamaha - 




 With the new TW-5B(old one was TW-5A)  8.5 hours, ambient, adaptive, gaming mode, new app and other stuff. Odd two buttons on one side and one on the other design.


----------



## erockg

jant71 said:


> Back to make amens...
> 
> Yamaha -
> With the new TW-5B(old one was TW-5A  8.5 hours, ambient, adaptive, gaming mode, new app and other stuff. Odd two buttons on one side and one on the other design.


I hope they did better!


----------



## Tenlow

erockg said:


> Wow, well, I mean at least you found something better.  That's good.  I used to put my Gemini on Dynamic and tweak the EQ and loved them.  Granted, I've moved on to others at this time


You've left the Geminis and the B&O EQ behind, right? What have you been moving to? Are there significantly better sounding TWS for you than these two? Just curious


----------



## tinyman392

jant71 said:


> Back to make amens...
> 
> Yamaha -
> With the new TW-5B(old one was TW-5A)  8.5 hours, ambient, adaptive, gaming mode, new app and other stuff. Odd two buttons on one side and one on the other design.


Asymmetrical design for buttons is kind of odd ball.  I want to assume volume rocker on one side and playback/phone controls on the other.


----------



## clerkpalmer (Mar 3, 2022)

jant71 said:


> I do like the look of the new Addidas...
> 
> 
> Just you pay more for the name. They might be quite good but just should be cheaper for only ambient, BT5.2, and 25 total hours of battery life. IPX5 is not that high for sports either. $99 would be more tempting.
> https://www.adidasheadphones.com/us...VDo6zCh044gFwEAQYASABEgIQRPD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds


Took a flyer on these.  Had a 20% coupon from Adidas that brought them down to $125.  At $125 there's not much to complain about.  SQ is better than expected.  V-shaped and designed for the gym.  These are not trying to be audiophile buds and I didn't expect them to.  I'd put them on par with the Bose TWS for SQ which is to say enjoyable but not something I'd use for critical listening. 

The fit is the star of the show.  They are very light and comfortable.  While I haven't tried running in them, I have no doubt they would stay put.  They have a Bose-like ear fin and a very shallow earbud design.  Not quite as shallow as Bose or APP but they don't go very far in.  Just enough to seal.  Low profile and I like the looks.  Once in, they feel barely there.  Have a lot of similarities to the Jaybird Vista but I could never dial in the sound on the Jaybirds to my liking.  These sound good out of the box on the flat setting.

Everything else is pretty average but they come with an option to lock the touch controls which was a selling point to me as sweat often causes unwanted control changes.  The cover to the case is secured by a magnet and easily detached.  This is a very odd design choice and I'm not sure what purpose it serves.  If you try to hold them from the lid, it will detach and the buds and case fall.  Bizarre. 

Overall - not bad for the price paid.  I'll use them as my outdoor/active buds.  They look decent and fit extremely well.  Audiophiles or those who need ANC look elsewhere.


----------



## clerkpalmer

jant71 said:


> Back to make amens...
> 
> Yamaha -
> With the new TW-5B(old one was TW-5A)  8.5 hours, ambient, adaptive, gaming mode, new app and other stuff. Odd two buttons on one side and one on the other design.


I've always like Yamaha's audio gear.  These look like barring superglue, they would fall out of my ears immediately.


----------



## jant71 (Mar 3, 2022)

tinyman392 said:


> Asymmetrical design for buttons is kind of odd ball.  I want to assume volume rocker on one side and playback/phone controls on the other.


Yep, play/pause/calls/ambient is the single L button while volume and track controls are the double buttons on the R.
https://usa.yamaha.com/products/audio_visual/headphones/tw-e5b/support.html#product-tabs

Price is $149.95. Brown color is pretty nice looking(they are pretty big though)...


----------



## clerkpalmer

Ultrainferno said:


> In our newest article we're looking at the Noble Audio Fokus Pro TWS, an article by @Aerosphere
> 
> https://www.headfonia.com/noble-audio-fokus-pro-review/


Great review and consistent with what most of us here already have concluded:

"*It is not every day we get this level of performance, wirelessly. It may be the best TWS earphone I’ve listened to*."

They are indeed the best TWS I have ever heard.  If they could figure out a way to add ANC, they would be unbeatable.


----------



## jant71

Currently a deal on the Gamesky reviewed version of the Lavabeans...
https://www.amazon.com/LavaBeans-Bl...ones-Microphone/dp/B09LTVJNW9?ref_=ast_sto_dp

I did finish my testing of the LavaBeans and they are excellent. Only issue is the BT range. If I want to use these within range they match or beat everything else for stability esp. in the back pocket. Good for using with DAPs that might not have the BT transmission of a phone. Buuut, if I want to go out on the basketball court and I'm alone and run full court to get the running in I'd have to use the AT instead cause they will reach the whole distance up and down the court if I would leave the device hooked on the fence. Better than the AT for even less drops in normal range but the range is the standard 33 feet and then it starts to drop vs. the AT which will give about 75 feet or so.


----------



## Ceeluh7

jant71 said:


> Currently a deal on the Gamesky reviewed version of the Lavabeans...
> https://www.amazon.com/LavaBeans-Bl...ones-Microphone/dp/B09LTVJNW9?ref_=ast_sto_dp
> 
> I did finish my testing of the LavaBeans and they are excellent. Only issue is the BT range. If I want to use these within range they match or beat everything else for stability esp. in the back pocket. Good for using with DAPs that might not have the BT transmission of a phone. Buuut, if I want to go out on the basketball court and I'm alone and run full court to get the running in I'd have to use the AT instead cause they will reach the whole distance up and down the court if I would leave the device hooked on the fence. Better than the AT for even less drops in normal range but the range is the standard 33 feet and then it starts to drop vs. the AT which will give about 75 feet or so.


Thanks for the link man. They sound pretty nice too from what I gather. I still haven't purchased them yet spending so much time with other sets but appreciate it. I think $17...thats silly


----------



## erockg

Tenlow said:


> You've left the Geminis and the B&O EQ behind, right? What have you been moving to? Are there significantly better sounding TWS for you than these two? Just curious


Noble Fokus Pro for the best sounding TWS in my house.  Love them.  Then we amp it up to the IEMs, Thieaudio Monarch MK2 and Legacy 4s on adapters.  I have a few other TWS but small ones not geared for _best_ sound.  Here's my current lineup.  No wild hairs this week for anything new... YET!


----------



## jant71 (Mar 3, 2022)

erockg said:


> Noble Fokus Pro for the best sounding TWS in my house.  Love them.  Then we amp it up to the IEMs, Thieaudio Monarch MK2 and Legacy 4s on adapters.  I have a few other TWS but small ones not geared for _best_ sound.  Here's my current lineup.  No wild hairs this week for anything new... YET!


You know you want a pair of IE600 for those FiiO. Do they even work with the FiiO ?? Think you need these:


----------



## howdy (Mar 3, 2022)

Will the UTWS5 work with CIEMs I seen a 0.75mm version but not a 0.78mm version. Also will it fit in the case with CIEMs?


----------



## erockg

jant71 said:


> You know you want a pair of IE600 for those FiiO. Do they even work with the FiiO ?? Think you need these:



Not enough drivers LOL.  I think a guy a few weeks back posted a L shaped adapter for his Sennies with the FiiO.  Looked sick.


----------



## dweaver

Well I finally recieved my little MMCX helper for removing the IEM from the cable so decided to try my Brainwavz B400 and Fender FX2  on the UTWS5 and found out just how good the FH5 sound. The B400 is all BA and I have to admit I prefer a dynamic driver for bass, but the mids and treble also outperform the B400. The FX2 lack bass and treble in comparison. They both sound good, just not great. 

The FH5 has brought back a new found love for the music versus the gear for me...


----------



## seanjoe

beoplay EQ are the best TWS for me. I'm planning to try fokus pro. is there a reviewer who do the comparison between EQ vs Fokus pro ?


----------



## dweaver

I own 2 Hybrid Driver TWS {In Between Pro, Anker Soundcore L2P) and neither come close to the sound of the FH5 so it's not just how many drivers are in the IEM.

I almost use the UTWS5/FH5 for all my listening now. Even on the train and down town, and in bed. I also find myself listening for hours on end getting lost in the music, something I haven't done in the past few years.


----------



## dmphile (Mar 3, 2022)

dweaver said:


> I own 2 Hybrid Driver TWS {In Between Pro, Anker Soundcore L2P) and neither come close to the sound of the FH5 so it's not just how many drivers are in the IEM.
> 
> I almost use the UTWS5/FH5 for all my listening now. Even on the train and down town, and in bed. I also find myself listening for hours on end getting lost in the music, something I haven't done in the past few years.


This is how I feel about my combo with the Dorado 2020. I just got the M11 Plus ESS today also. This thing is a brick but it feels super premium and sounds phenomenal. Clarity, resolution and clean bass. A step up from my outdated M7.


----------



## Juturna

The new update for the Technics AZ60 is probably really good, but the change in sound signature probably bummed me out a little bit, but only because I had like the absolute perfect sound signature (ish) dialled in with Wavelet, and now I'm having trouble getting back to exactly that. Still sounds great, but I feel like it's just a liiittle worse right now. That's definitely a minor criticism though, I could've just not updated too, but I wanted to see what the fuss was about.


----------



## tiagopinto

samandhi said:


> Are there no sound boutiques in your area that you might be able to audition?



Sadly, no. None that I know of at least. Maybe @Asoares99 knows more on this. 



samandhi said:


> Are you looking for something in the middle of those two, same bass as MT, or neutral bass like Rai Solo?



Right in the middle would be nice. I’ve been eyeing the Variations which, although having that sub-bass boost, have a dip in the upper bass/lower mids which might balance them up. They reportedly have loads (for the price) of separation and clear imaging, which is appealing to me. The pinna-gain on these seem to be there but not overtly emphasized and the ESTs seem to give them treble definition but smoothness, which I also like. Most if not all refer to a better B2D which, although not having tried them, all the reviews sound really good.
iBasso are also tempting me. Could the IT-01x be up to par with the Variations? IT-07 must be above them but (still) out of my range as, I’m trying at least, to remain under 500€. 



samandhi said:


> but you can get them from Aliexpress still.



Nowadays taxes are imposed on anything out of the EU, so I have to stick to brands who have a distributor, sell on amazon, sell directly through an EU warehouse... iBasso do the latter. Thieaudio I cannot find. Fiio have a distributor. Moondrop are on Amazon.fr, Linsoul I cannot find... all I cannot try beforehand.

Thanks for your inputs. From you and all of you who’ve chimed in and hope will continue to do so. Very helpful.


----------



## tiagopinto

guitarizt said:


> Hahahaha, but I am still looking for a dac/amp. I just can't believe the portable ones are better than standalone. Zen dac v2 has its own problems with the inbalance at low vols and hallway delay/reverb thing going on. Plus it's 190 instead of 150 now. Mojo is so old and more like 300-350 used instead of 250. High pitched whining problems with some, and batt dies fast. Would have to mod it for pc only. The go blu everyone likes, but it's the same thing where I can't imagine that the zen dac isn't better. The official ifi account on here also said the nano idsd was a step above the zen dac, but that reviewers didn't say anything about a diff in sound.
> 
> Trying to find more direct comparisons amongst mojo, go blu, zen dac, and schiit stuff. I want to cry.



I have no experience with the devices you mention. A friend owns the ifi go blu and loves it (as much as @Ceeluh7). Mojo, although old, is very good, but 500 bucks here at least. I do own the THX Onyx and LOVE it to pieces. I got it from Razer for 200 bucks. I’ve heard of occasional discounts. Check ASR’s review of it. I can’t praise it enough.


----------



## tiagopinto

dweaver said:


> @tiagopinto If you can only get the FH5 at full retail and have a choice to go to buy the FH5S, I have heard it a bit more balanced with a bigger sound stage since it is slightly open, so depending on whether you want a more balanced signature and bigger sound stage at the cost of a bit of isolation, it might be the better option if basically the same price. DSnuts said he thought the FH5S  had the best synergy with the UTWS5 out of all the Fiio IEMs he could try which included the FH9, several FA and FD models.



Thanks a lot for your inputs. Very valuable and much appreciated. Keep chiming in. Unfortunately I cannot try the FH5 out but I will try the FH3 a friend just got. Probably a toned down FH5. I am going to contact the local distributor and see if they have any FH open box (or any Fiio for that matter). I have the sense I’m going to love the bass resolution but they’re maybe gonna be too bright for me. Frequency response is one thing and how the crossover works the tuning out is another. Idk, gotta check. Cheers.


----------



## Ceeluh7

dweaver said:


> Well I finally recieved my little MMCX helper for removing the IEM from the cable so decided to try my Brainwavz B400 and Fender FX2  on the UTWS5 and found out just how good the FH5 sound. The B400 is all BA and I have to admit I prefer a dynamic driver for bass, but the mids and treble also outperform the B400. The FX2 lack bass and treble in comparison. They both sound good, just not great.
> 
> The FH5 has brought back a new found love for the music versus the gear for me...


Dude.... Fh5 is a beast. You start to appreciate a well balanced sound like the Fh5 has. Clean, good bass replay, airy enough, just a good all rounder. BTW those tools will save your mmcx connections. Before using them I used to just grip and pull all my mmcx and maaay have ruined a couple pairs of iems that way, those tools are a must.


----------



## samandhi

tiagopinto said:


> Sadly, no. None that I know of at least. Maybe @Asoares99 knows more on this.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I don't know about the Variations, but keep in mind that a good bass boost can be a good thing in some cases (as long as it is tasteful and not overly done). If a set of IEMs is analytical by nature, a good bass boost will also help to make them more musical (and not boring sounding), and yet retain their analytical nature also. 

One of the reasons I love the IT series from iBasso is that the bass, while boosted a bit, is more linear (except the IT01 which is almost a bass cannon). This means that in tracks that call for heavy bass, you hear it all, but in ones that do not, it is not over emphasized. There is also not a huge mid-bass hump that creates the mids bass bleed. I can't compare the IT01x with the Variations as I have not heard them, but I would submit that the IT01x is the little brother of the IT07 with less refinement that you would get from the IT07 (which IS a kilobuck IEM in sonic quality, just not in price). I personally kept the IT01s and sent the IT01x back because the sonic differences to my ears was not enough to justify the price difference that I was able to obtain for the IT01s (IT01s WAS $200, but I got them for $120). 

The other thing I have always like about iBasso products is that they are very competitive in their pricing. They create devices/items that compete with other TOTL stuff but not at an exorbitant price range like most other manufacturers do. (not to start a flame war here but) Take the A&K SP2000 for instance. It is somewhere around $2400. I would submit that the DX300 ($1100) is better in every way; power output, screen, speed of OS, features, sound, for much less money (IMHO). 

But at the end of the day, I think that it will come down to how your ears hear things. The Variations could be the one, or the Fiio FH5, or the iBasso series. And, you won't really know until you put them into your ears really. BUT... I would probably put any of them up as being very good for your money IMO. For what you are looking for I don't think you can go wrong unless one of those sets just happens to not synergize well with the chain you currently have. Keep in mind that (while I am not a fanboy it might appear so) I use iBasso DAPs (DX300 and DX160) for all my music needs, and the iBasso IEMs synergize very well with them. I find no reviews that say any of those DON'T synergize well with most DAC/amps, but it IS possible. This holds true for any IEM that you have to rely on others to tell you how they sound.


----------



## Ceeluh7

dmphile said:


> This is how I feel about my combo with the Dorado 2020. I just got the M11 Plus ESS today also. This thing is a brick but it feels super premium and sounds phenomenal. Clarity, resolution and clean bass. A step up from my outdated M7.


I was looking at the m11 plus. I own the m11 original and it is still so good man. However I was thinking of upgrading to either the m11 plus or the Hiby R6 2020. Enjoy it man


----------



## samandhi

Ceeluh7 said:


> Dude.... Fh5 is a beast. You start to appreciate a well balanced sound like the Fh5 has. Clean, good bass replay, airy enough, just a good all rounder. BTW those tools will save your mmcx connections. Before using them I used to just grip and pull all my mmcx and maaay have ruined a couple pairs of iems that way, those tools are a must.


Or never clipping your thumb nail... LOL

Yeah, I was sent one of those tools free with my 7Hz Timeless, which is ironic because the shape of those won't allow you to get the tool in there to use it properly.


----------



## Ceeluh7

tiagopinto said:


> Thanks a lot for your inputs. Very valuable and much appreciated. Keep chiming in. Unfortunately I cannot try the FH5 out but I will try the FH3 a friend just got. Probably a toned down FH5. I am going to contact the local distributor and see if they have any FH open box (or any Fiio for that matter). I have the sense I’m going to love the bass resolution but they’re maybe gonna be too bright for me. Frequency response is one thing and how the crossover works the tuning out is another. Idk, gotta check. Cheers.


I love the FH3. To me it is a toss up with the Fh5. They are tuned different. There is good reason that the FH3 was received as well as it has been and is still in discussion for best under $200. Just an excellent set at the price. I think fh5 have a tinge better resolution but they are two fantastic sets that fit many genres.


----------



## Ceeluh7

samandhi said:


> Or never clipping your thumb nail... LOL
> 
> Yeah, I was sent one of those tools free with my 7Hz Timeless, which is ironic because the shape of those won't allow you to get the tool in there to use it properly.


LOL... Ya it used to be... "Okay, pull it straight out and do it quick and please don't break". I was always having to re-tighten my mmcx connections on my cables... Just a mess, the tool is such a help.


----------



## Ceeluh7

samandhi said:


> I don't know about the Variations, but keep in mind that a good bass boost can be a good thing in some cases (as long as it is tasteful and not overly done). If a set of IEMs is analytical by nature, a good bass boost will also help to make them more musical (and not boring sounding), and yet retain their analytical nature also.
> 
> One of the reasons I love the IT series from iBasso is that the bass, while boosted a bit, is more linear (except the IT01 which is almost a bass cannon). This means that in tracks that call for heavy bass, you hear it all, but in ones that do not, it is not over emphasized. There is also not a huge mid-bass hump that creates the mids bass bleed. I can't compare the IT01x with the Variations as I have not heard them, but I would submit that the IT01x is the little brother of the IT07 with less refinement that you would get from the IT07 (which IS a kilobuck IEM in sonic quality, just not in price). I personally kept the IT01s and sent the IT01x back because the sonic differences to my ears was not enough to justify the price difference that I was able to obtain for the IT01s (IT01s WAS $200, but I got them for $120).
> 
> ...


Have you tried the Mangird Tea? Just another option under $500 that replays very well. Just a thought. Anything ibasso or fiio won't let you down, built well and tuned for multiple genres in mind, for the most part.


----------



## samandhi

Ceeluh7 said:


> LOL... Ya it used to be... "Okay, pull it straight out and do it quick and please don't break". I was always having to re-tighten my mmcx connections on my cables... Just a mess, the tool is such a help.


I have been fortunate to this point and had 0 issues with MMCX connectors. I don't do much cable rolling. I find what sounds good with an IEM and pretty much stick with it. Though, I can see issues once I do get a BT adaptor because I know I'll want to still listen to the IEMs wired from time to time.


----------



## dmphile

Ceeluh7 said:


> I was looking at the m11 plus. I own the m11 original and it is still so good man. However I was thinking of upgrading to either the m11 plus or the Hiby R6 2020. Enjoy it man


I'm liking it so far. It was between the m11 plus ess and dx240 for me but the dx240 is not widely available in Canada so I went with the m11 plus ess. Sounds great so far. A much cleaner and resolving sound from my outdated fiio m7 DAP. I miss the small portability of the M7 but the m11 plus has some good heft and reeks of quality.


----------



## Phaethon

tiagopinto said:


> Right in the middle would be nice. I’ve been eyeing the Variations which, although having that sub-bass boost, have a dip in the upper bass/lower mids which might balance them up. They reportedly have loads (for the price) of separation and clear imaging, which is appealing to me. The pinna-gain on these seem to be there but not overtly emphasized and the ESTs seem to give them treble definition but smoothness, which I also like. Most if not all refer to a better B2D which, although not having tried them, all the reviews sound really good.
> iBasso are also tempting me. Could the IT-01x be up to par with the Variations? IT-07 must be above them but (still) out of my range as, I’m trying at least, to remain under 500€.


I either have or had the IEMs in question here. The IT01x is noooothing like the Variations. I frequently pair with my DX300 and the Ibasso IEMs are truly wonderful but the Variations are an entirely different critter. The IT01x is bass forward and very rich sounding, whereas the Variations are much more balanced and are more natural sounding. The IT07s are stunning and worth every dollar, but it’s a lot of dollars. For that “right in the middle” sound (and a fantastic price to audio ratio), I would suggest the TRI Starsea. I find the signature much more balanced than the TRI i3. At $200, they are quite special. But the Dorado2020s have stayed my daily drivers. I keep them on TW2s and put them back on cable and iFi goBlu when I can and the mood strikes.

Be cautious with open box sales. Great prices but generally non-returnable. Be really sure


----------



## dweaver

arghh, the stupid clicking sound on the left earbud of my AZ60 has come back!! I can reproduce it by simply touching the screen area on the IEM, at its worst every step I take causes it to click...

according to Panasonic website its a replacement warranty that the store should honor, so back to London Drugs today and see if they will give me a hassle... Sure hope not.


----------



## dweaver

samandhi said:


> I have been fortunate to this point and had 0 issues with MMCX connectors. I don't do much cable rolling. I find what sounds good with an IEM and pretty much stick with it. Though, I can see issues once I do get a BT adaptor because I know I'll want to still listen to the IEMs wired from time to time.


I bought the helper thing exactly because of this. I have had several MMCX IEM's break over the years, my worst one was my $800 pair of Sony XBA-Z5. I literally would not but an MMCX product for several years because of the issue. I finally broke down and bought the FH5 because it was at least not $800. But I also bought this tool to help ensure I don't wreck them.

The good news is have a feeling I won't be switching them out very often as they sound superb in my current UTWS5 configuration and I don't see any benefit going wired unless I choose to buy a dedicated DAP which is unlikely do to my use case as I hate carrying extra around and my phone no longer has a headphone jack so limited to BT anyway.


----------



## samandhi (Mar 4, 2022)

Phaethon said:


> I either have or had the IEMs in question here. The IT01x is noooothing like the Variations. I frequently pair with my DX300 and the Ibasso IEMs are truly wonderful but the Variations are an entirely different critter. The IT01x is bass forward and very rich sounding, whereas the Variations are much more balanced and are more natural sounding. The IT07s are stunning and worth every dollar, but it’s a lot of dollars. For that “right in the middle” sound (and a fantastic price to audio ratio), I would suggest the TRI Starsea. I find the signature much more balanced than the TRI i3. At $200, they are quite special. But the Dorado2020s have stayed my daily drivers. I keep them on TW2s and put them back on cable and iFi goBlu when I can and the mood strikes.
> 
> Be cautious with open box sales. Great prices but generally non-returnable. Be really sure


That is the word I would use about the IT07 also. Good adjective! 

@tiagopinto There is a pair of the IT07 on the classified here on Head-Fi for 600 Euros in case you are interested BTW!

Edit: Oh, NM... The seller didn't mark it as sold, only in the comments below...


----------



## Ceeluh7

dmphile said:


> I'm liking it so far. It was between the m11 plus ess and dx240 for me but the dx240 is not widely available in Canada so I went with the m11 plus ess. Sounds great so far. A much cleaner and resolving sound from my outdated fiio m7 DAP. I miss the small portability of the M7 but the m11 plus has some good heft and reeks of quality.


I here you. I want something between $600-900. I'm leaning toward the Hiby R6 2020 at the moment but the M11 Plus is right there with it and yes it is very nice. Honestly the M11 is very nice as well and I question if I even need an upgrade. Basically the same body as the plus with different internals. The plus is certainly a step up for sure though. You picked up a great Dap man


----------



## tiagopinto

samandhi said:


> I don't know about the Variations, but keep in mind that a good bass boost can be a good thing in some cases (as long as it is tasteful and not overly done). If a set of IEMs is analytical by nature, a good bass boost will also help to make them more musical (and not boring sounding), and yet retain their analytical nature also.
> 
> One of the reasons I love the IT series from iBasso is that the bass, while boosted a bit, is more linear (except the IT01 which is almost a bass cannon). This means that in tracks that call for heavy bass, you hear it all, but in ones that do not, it is not over emphasized. There is also not a huge mid-bass hump that creates the mids bass bleed. I can't compare the IT01x with the Variations as I have not heard them, but I would submit that the IT01x is the little brother of the IT07 with less refinement that you would get from the IT07 (which IS a kilobuck IEM in sonic quality, just not in price). I personally kept the IT01s and sent the IT01x back because the sonic differences to my ears was not enough to justify the price difference that I was able to obtain for the IT01s (IT01s WAS $200, but I got them for $120).
> 
> ...



Thanks as always bud. 

It seems that the DX300 is the kind of unicorn I’m looking for in a IEM. (wish I could dive into the DAP rabbit hole... wait, I hear voices “stay focused, too expensive, stay focused”)

I have to pay the Fiio distributor a visit and REALLY push them to try a few. Lack of friends with the same “disease”, lack of local retail opportunities... I WILL get there. 

(Just saw that the TW2’s price has gone up 20 bucks from the previous discounted price of 186€. Gotta make a decision soon)


----------



## tiagopinto

Phaethon said:


> I either have or had the IEMs in question here. The IT01x is noooothing like the Variations. I frequently pair with my DX300 and the Ibasso IEMs are truly wonderful but the Variations are an entirely different critter. The IT01x is bass forward and very rich sounding, whereas the Variations are much more balanced and are more natural sounding. The IT07s are stunning and worth every dollar, but it’s a lot of dollars. For that “right in the middle” sound (and a fantastic price to audio ratio), I would suggest the TRI Starsea. I find the signature much more balanced than the TRI i3. At $200, they are quite special. But the Dorado2020s have stayed my daily drivers. I keep them on TW2s and put them back on cable and iFi goBlu when I can and the mood strikes.
> 
> Be cautious with open box sales. Great prices but generally non-returnable. Be really sure



Thanks, will look into the TRI Starsea, also to see if they are even attainable within the EU. 

Could you elaborate on your impressions of the Variations, please?

I would never buy anything I’m not sure about which I cannot return. They’re also the distributors for Campfire Audio (but they’re not carrying any of the newer models and I haven’t seen previous models in store. I guess they’re pushing the Fiio stuff more) and they offered me to try them if and when they got them (on lent, shhh) So I’ll just make the case for their Fiio stuff. I’ll report back.


----------



## samandhi

Ceeluh7 said:


> I here you. I want something between $600-900. I'm leaning toward the Hiby R6 2020 at the moment but the M11 Plus is right there with it and yes it is very nice. Honestly the M11 is very nice as well and I question if I even need an upgrade. Basically the same body as the plus with different internals. The plus is certainly a step up for sure though. You picked up a great Dap man


Keep in mind that there are 2 plus variants (you probably already know this). The Plus and the Plus LTD. The draw that I see is the lack of volume wheel for either. 

But the Plus uses the ESS DAC, where the Plus LTD uses the AK DAC. The ESS Plus has 660mW @32Ω whereas the Plus LTD has 558mW @32Ω (both numbers are from balanced out). 

Unless you are looking for purely sound quality, I won't even suggest the DX160 because it has terrible BT and WiFi connections. Sound-wise though, I don't know if you can get much better for the price category listed (that is totally subjective though). The mid-tiered DAPs are so close in sound quality these days, I would really look for all the features you are wanting (and future-proof). For example, if you are wanting Roon certified, you may need to jump over to A&K, otherwise you will be limited to 16/48 if you use Roon. Or, if you need more ouput power to double as a desktop solution, you will either need to upgrade your tier (money) or get something like the DX160 (6.2VRMS). Etc... etc... 

From what I have read though, you really can't go wrong with Fiio, or Hiby, or iBasso IMHO.


----------



## tiagopinto

C_Lindbergh said:


> Qualcomm recently annonced new BT 5.3 SoC!
> 
> https://www.qualcomm.com/products/qualcomm-s3-sound-platform
> 
> ...



Now this is terribly interesting!

Here we go for TWS. When though?

By accident, do the TWS in the video look like the M&D08, or is it me?


----------



## jant71

Is this really it...







With outstanding sound quality and Adaptive Noise Cancellation, the MOMENTUM True Wireless 3 are an excellent choice if you're looking for ultimate listening pleasure. The Sennheiser TrueResponse transducer system delivers superior high-fidelity sound using high-resolution wireless transmission. Adaptive Noise Cancellation guarantees an undisturbed listening experience and automatically adapts the ANC level if the ambient noise level changes. The advanced system uses three microphones to continually monitor ambient noise and automatically optimise noise cancellation. When you want to be aware of your surroundings or have a conversation, the Transparent Hearing feature makes the ambient noise audible at the touch of a button.

Impressive all round
Exceptional quality when answering and making calls or interacting with voice assistants is guaranteed by an advanced system that uses three microphones on each earbud. Either earbud can be used on its own, making the MOMENTUM True Wireless 3 simple and convenient to use. Improved ergonomics and a selection of ear adapters and fins ensure that these in-ear headphones are extremely comfortable to wear, all day long, while splash protection (IPX4) makes them very versatile. The design combines a sleek, futuristic look with the trademark delicate craftsmanship of the MOMENTUM series.
*Details*

Size (W x H x D): one size fits all
Material: plastic
Colour: black
*Features*

Sennheiser's signature sound thanks to the Sennheiser TrueResponse transducer system
Adaptive Noise Cancellation (ANC)
Splash-proof according to IPX4*
Customisable touch interface for intuitive operation
Supported profiles: A2DP, AVRCP, HSP, HFP
Sound pressure level: 107 dB
ANC: Hybrid Adaptive ANC
Bluetooth® 5.2, Class 1
Supported codecs: SBC, AAC, aptX™, aptX™ adaptive
Frequency range: 5-21 kHz
Wireless charging (case)
Qi wireless charging
Power supply: 5 V⎓, 1,000 mA max.
Built-in lithium-ion battery (charging time: up to 90 mins.)
Runtime up to 7 hrs. - up to 28 hrs. with wireless charging
*Included in delivery*

Sennheiser MOMENTUM True Wireless 3 in-ear headphones
Charging case
USB-C charging cable
Silicone ear adapter sets, sizes: XS, S, M, L
Silicon ear fin sets, sizes: S, M, L
*Protected against splashes from any direction in accordance with the IPX4 standard.


----------



## EMINENT

jant71 said:


> Is this really it...
> 
> 
> With outstanding sound quality and Adaptive Noise Cancellation, the MOMENTUM True Wireless 3 are an excellent choice if you're looking for ultimate listening pleasure. The Sennheiser TrueResponse transducer system delivers superior high-fidelity sound using high-resolution wireless transmission. Adaptive Noise Cancellation guarantees an undisturbed listening experience and automatically adapts the ANC level if the ambient noise level changes. The advanced system uses three microphones to continually monitor ambient noise and automatically optimise noise cancellation. When you want to be aware of your surroundings or have a conversation, the Transparent Hearing feature makes the ambient noise audible at the touch of a button.
> ...



Fail on case size and same ip rating. Who's going to step up in 2022?


----------



## Tenlow (Mar 4, 2022)

Well, I love the matte black looks if this genuine. Wireless Charging was a must anyway, as was Bluetooth 5.2.

The case, while looking nice, is pretty much as before. ANC adaptive is fine as long as it works better than on the B&O EQ. Battery life seems average these days but enough all in all. Aptx adaptive is nice.

Sound quality will define how good they will be. On paper (again if genuine) it looks like a logical successor without taking any major risks...


----------



## jant71 (Mar 4, 2022)

EMINENT said:


> Fail on case size and same ip rating. Who's going to step up in 2022?


LOL, Is it 2022 with 7 hours battery and the case doesn't make 30 hours either. AptX Loseless or Snapdragon Sound? LE firmware upgradable?

Slipping in a last current tech model here is not very exciting.


----------



## bladefd

jant71 said:


> Is this really it...
> 
> 
> With outstanding sound quality and Adaptive Noise Cancellation, the MOMENTUM True Wireless 3 are an excellent choice if you're looking for ultimate listening pleasure. The Sennheiser TrueResponse transducer system delivers superior high-fidelity sound using high-resolution wireless transmission. Adaptive Noise Cancellation guarantees an undisturbed listening experience and automatically adapts the ANC level if the ambient noise level changes. The advanced system uses three microphones to continually monitor ambient noise and automatically optimise noise cancellation. When you want to be aware of your surroundings or have a conversation, the Transparent Hearing feature makes the ambient noise audible at the touch of a button.
> ...


Looks good!

Wireless charging, aptx adaptive, better battery life. Doesn't say if the earbuds are smaller or not than mtw2 so I would be curious about that. I would be also curious if phone call quality has been improved, but that we won't know until the early reviews. 

One thing I don't like is the plastic body - were mtw1 and mtw2 both plastic too?

Does anyone remember how much the mtw1 and mtw2 cost on release?


----------



## erockg

jant71 said:


> Is this really it...
> 
> 
> With outstanding sound quality and Adaptive Noise Cancellation, the MOMENTUM True Wireless 3 are an excellent choice if you're looking for ultimate listening pleasure. The Sennheiser TrueResponse transducer system delivers superior high-fidelity sound using high-resolution wireless transmission. Adaptive Noise Cancellation guarantees an undisturbed listening experience and automatically adapts the ANC level if the ambient noise level changes. The advanced system uses three microphones to continually monitor ambient noise and automatically optimise noise cancellation. When you want to be aware of your surroundings or have a conversation, the Transparent Hearing feature makes the ambient noise audible at the touch of a button.
> ...


I'll definitely try them.  Qi was a must.  Don't care about aptX, I'm usually on an iPhone.  They look smaller.  Let's hope.  Anything BT 5 and up I'm fine with.


----------



## Tenlow

bladefd said:


> Looks good!
> 
> Wireless charging, aptx adaptive, better battery life. Doesn't say if the earbuds are smaller or not than mtw2 so I would be curious about that. I would be also curious if phone call quality has been improved, but that we won't know until the early reviews.
> 
> ...


Also 299, I think.


----------



## dmphile

jant71 said:


> Is this really it...
> 
> 
> With outstanding sound quality and Adaptive Noise Cancellation, the MOMENTUM True Wireless 3 are an excellent choice if you're looking for ultimate listening pleasure. The Sennheiser TrueResponse transducer system delivers superior high-fidelity sound using high-resolution wireless transmission. Adaptive Noise Cancellation guarantees an undisturbed listening experience and automatically adapts the ANC level if the ambient noise level changes. The advanced system uses three microphones to continually monitor ambient noise and automatically optimise noise cancellation. When you want to be aware of your surroundings or have a conversation, the Transparent Hearing feature makes the ambient noise audible at the touch of a button.
> ...


Meh, still hasn't quite hit the mark for me. Basically looks like another CX Plus model and still no multi-point.


----------



## Ceeluh7

samandhi said:


> Keep in mind that there are 2 plus variants (you probably already know this). The Plus and the Plus LTD. The draw that I see is the lack of volume wheel for either.
> 
> But the Plus uses the ESS DAC, where the Plus LTD uses the AK DAC. The ESS Plus has 660mW @32Ω whereas the Plus LTD has 558mW @32Ω (both numbers are from balanced out).
> 
> ...


Thanks man I appreciate the response alot. Ya I've researched quite a bit however still hesitant when so much money is involved. Thank you


----------



## samandhi (Mar 4, 2022)

jant71 said:


> LOL, Is it 2022 with 7 hours battery and the case doesn't make 30 hours either. AptX Loseless or Snapdragon Sound? LE firmware upgradable?
> 
> Slipping in a last current tech model here is not very exciting.


It appears that they are just trying to stay relevant (or at least status quo), until they can come out with something better?! The Linkbuds I can forgive for only having 5.5 hours per charge, but that is due to how small they really are...  And, 17.5 more hours for a dinky case is still acceptable (for what it is) IMO. Though the Senns LOOK nice, I don't think they seem super special to me, unless they have amazing sound (which trumps all for me).


----------



## samandhi

Ceeluh7 said:


> Thanks man I appreciate the response alot. Ya I've researched quite a bit however still hesitant when so much money is involved. Thank you


I would be interested to hear where you finally land on this?!


----------



## jant71 (Mar 4, 2022)

dmphile said:


> Meh, still hasn't quite hit the mark for me. Basically looks like another CX Plus model and still no multi-point.


Two plus years and you get a tweaked model. Still not excited. I guess they do have fins though. New shape, Qi, and fins. Indeed like an improved CX Plus model that they will cash in on with a nice price jump?? The Euro price is 249 probably translates to $229 US? About $50 more than the CX Plus seems about right.

Though the 2 is still listed on the Senn site at $299. Hope they don't do $299.


----------



## dmphile (Mar 4, 2022)

Ceeluh7 said:


> I was looking at the m11 plus. I own the m11 original and it is still so good man. However I was thinking of upgrading to either the m11 plus or the Hiby R6 2020. Enjoy it man


Ya, it sounds amazing. I am experiencing a more rich and full midrange with the M11 Plus ESS vs my M7 although that bar isn't very high for comparison, I know. I was also considering the Hiby R6 and it was on sale for $250 less than the FiiO but ended up going with the FiiO instead for better internals and more updated software. The imaging and instrument separation is also more discernable and precise. Loving it with the UTWS5 and Dorados.


----------



## dweaver

Exchanged the AZ60 with almost no hassles. Hopefully this pair doesn't develop the same issue. 

They had the WF-1000XM4on sale for $250CAD,with is $196us very tempting as I do wonder what they would be like....

But I didn't win the lottery, so nope I am not spending $250 to satisfy curiosity...


----------



## TK33

jant71 said:


> Is this really it...
> 
> 
> With outstanding sound quality and Adaptive Noise Cancellation, the MOMENTUM True Wireless 3 are an excellent choice if you're looking for ultimate listening pleasure. The Sennheiser TrueResponse transducer system delivers superior high-fidelity sound using high-resolution wireless transmission. Adaptive Noise Cancellation guarantees an undisturbed listening experience and automatically adapts the ANC level if the ambient noise level changes. The advanced system uses three microphones to continually monitor ambient noise and automatically optimise noise cancellation. When you want to be aware of your surroundings or have a conversation, the Transparent Hearing feature makes the ambient noise audible at the touch of a button.
> ...


If this is right then I am probably in.  I really liked my original MTWs and this seems to tick most of the boxes with respect to what I was waiting for (really what I wanted to see when the MTW2 was released).

Open items are size, call quality and price for me.


----------



## C_Lindbergh

Unless it sounds drastically better than my AZ06 Im not that interested of the MTW3...I thought it would be something more exciting after waiting 2 years for a new iteration. 

Nothing about support for the upcoming LE audio either, and the same old big chunky case with that damn cloth finish :/


----------



## dweaver (Mar 4, 2022)

My replacement AZ60 seems solid, fingers crossed that weird clicking sound never rears its ugly head...

Here is my latest attempt tweak the sound signature to something like my FH5. The idea being to reduce the bass a bit and then get the rest of signature to be lightly W shaped.


----------



## dmphile

dweaver said:


> My replacement AZ60 seems solid, fingers crossed that weird clicking sound never rears its ugly head...
> 
> Here is my latest attempt tweak the sound signature to something like my FH5. The idea being to reduce the bass a bit and then get the rest of signature to be lightly W shaped.


My EQ looks very similar for the AZ60's.


----------



## dweaver

I am an imaging junky, no doubt about it. The FH5 suits me so well because of the sense of being surrounded by the music. I am sitting hear trying several headphones back and forth and the bottom line, for pure enjoyment I prefer this experience over everything else. The Audioquest Nighthawk is my best headphone for this experience and even though it's not as bright as the FH5 it similarly makes me get lost in the music. 

Combine the imaging of the FH5 with great detail and the ability to have big bass makes it perfect for me.

I hope someone can figure out how to accomplish what the FH5 does in an actual TWS. If that day arrives I will truly be at an end game in regards to a Bluetooth products.

The AZ60 has this ability to a certain degree as does the Galaxy Buds Pro but neither is more than 60% as effective in this area and none of the other TWS or even neckband IEMs I have owned including the Sony WI-1000X, WF-1000XM3 are any better.

I think ANC affects the phsychoaccoustic effect I enjoy, but even when I turn off ANC none of the TWS and neckband products I have tried are able to hold a candle to a good IEM in this regard.


----------



## LordToneeus

dweaver said:


> I am an imaging junky, no doubt about it. The FH5 suits me so well because of the sense of being surrounded by the music. I am sitting hear trying several headphones back and forth and the bottom line, for pure enjoyment I prefer this experience over everything else. The Audioquest Nighthawk is my best headphone for this experience and even though it's not as bright as the FH5 it similarly makes me get lost in the music.
> 
> Combine the imaging of the FH5 with great detail and the ability to have big bass makes it perfect for me.
> 
> ...


You all have my curiosity piqued and my wallet finger itching something fierce. But, to be clear, are we talking about the FH5, or the FH5s?


----------



## dweaver (Mar 5, 2022)

I bought the original FH5 not the FH5S, the new model is supposed to have a larger sound stage because it is semi open versus the original which is closed. For me, I was able to get the FH5 for $90 off the retail which is part of the reason I went with it, but I also wanted better passive isolation. I initially noticed the smaller sound stage but love the imaging and the big bass.

Edit: just want to be clear, the FH5 has a big sound stage compared to most IEMs it's just not quite as big as some and my previous high end IEM (Sony XBA-Z5) was one of those models.

In reading I think I would prefer the FH5 over the S model though as I hear the S model has hotter treble and the FH5 is already right at my limit. 

The other factor for the S model is the new cable with ability to switch tips. But in my case I knew I was going to be using a BT TWS adapter so better cables were not important to me.

When looking at the original FH5 be aware they have the original titanium color and a new black model. The black model has slightly longer stems to fit a bit deeper in the ear which some people prefer. I actually ordered the black but recieved the Titanium model. But once I tried them I didn't care as the original design fit my ears perfectly and I liked their look as much as the black model. But I always have preferred a shallow fit over deeper insertion IEMs so you need to go with the one that works best for you...


----------



## LordToneeus

dweaver said:


> I bought the original FH5 not the FH5S, the new model is supposed to have a larger sound stage because it is semi open versus the original which is closed. For me, I was able to get the FH5 for $90 off the retail which is part of the reason I went with it, but I also wanted better passive isolation. I initially noticed the smaller sound stage but love the imaging and the big bass.
> 
> Edit: just want to be clear, the FH5 has a big sound stage compared to most IEMs it's just not quite as big as some and my previous high end IEM (Sony XBA-Z5) was one of those models.
> 
> ...


Thanks!


----------



## Ceeluh7 (Mar 5, 2022)

dweaver said:


> I bought the original FH5 not the FH5S, the new model is supposed to have a larger sound stage because it is semi open versus the original which is closed. For me, I was able to get the FH5 for $90 off the retail which is part of the reason I went with it, but I also wanted better passive isolation. I initially noticed the smaller sound stage but love the imaging and the big bass.
> 
> Edit: just want to be clear, the FH5 has a big sound stage compared to most IEMs it's just not quite as big as some and my previous high end IEM (Sony XBA-Z5) was one of those models.
> 
> ...


Right with all of that. The FH5's is quite hot at times and the bass impact just is not the same... At all to me. Fh5 is an iem that lasts, just the tuning alone. Good sound is always good. I'm trying to think of a tws that has the ability to have the extension of the FH5 yet still somehow remain balanced but also have the ability to reach deep in the low end while still keeping a tight bass.... That's a tough one. It would most certainly have to be a set that reacts well to eq. I bet I could get the Lypertek Z7 very close.


----------



## dweaver

The Lypertek Z7 is also a hybrid, right? Never tried that Brand yet, will do some reading...


----------



## amature101

New creative outlier
https://www.facebook.com/events/711482840023036/?acontext=%7B"ref"%3A"52"%2C"action_history"%3A"[%7B%5C"surface%5C"%3A%5C"share_link%5C"%2C%5C"mechanism%5C"%3A%5C"share_link%5C"%2C%5C"extra_data%5C"%3A%7B%5C"invite_link_id%5C"%3A678567029953759%7D%7D]"%7D


----------



## dweaver

Hmmmm, I can get the Z7 for $168CAD at Headphone Bar, very tempting... The reviews are decent from what I can see, how is the imaging on them? 

Just realizing how much I have missed good imaging since getting the FH5.


----------



## amature101

Ceeluh7 said:


> Right with all of that. The FH5's is quite hot at times and the bass impact just is not the same... At all to me. Fh5 is an iem that lasts, just the tuning alone. Good sound is always good. I'm trying to think of a tws that has the ability to have the extension of the FH5 yet still somehow remain balanced but also have the ability to reach deep in the low end while still keeping a tight bass.... That's a tough one. It would most certainly have to be a set that reacts well to eq. I bet I could get the Lypertek Z7 very close.


How is Z7 compared to rest of the wireless iem?


----------



## Ceeluh7

amature101 said:


> How is Z7 compared to rest of the wireless iem?


Z7 is flat out one of the best tws iems for sound quality. For the price it is ridiculous how capable the drivers are in this set. I've had these for over 6 months maybe more. I think if you want better sound in the tws world you'd have to look at the Fokus model by Noble and maybe the EQ (please note that this is my opinion). I have gotten rid of most of the big hitters out there (Gemini, Sony wf1000xm4, AZ60, Grado Gt220, Liberty 3 Pro, etc etc) in favor of the Z7. Although there are a few I have yet to try but the Z7 does compete well. So please take into consideration that I haven't heard everything out there and I'm sure some sets can do well against this set for SQ. I care about sound quality over everything else. I don't care about anc or a good ambient mode... However, that being said the Z7 also lacks anc and have an ambient mode that leaves alot to be desired. It has a nice app which gives you pretty good control as well. The Z7 react very well to an equalizer as these drivers just seem to take whatever you throw at them without distortion and the Z7 just have awesome control over the whole spectrum and extend really low. Just like the Tevi/Z3 the Z7 have more sub bass than mid bass (which I like) and have good extension up top. I think they get 11 hrs battery on the Buds. Another few things to note; the case is rather large, granted you get 70 hrs with the thing and also the Z7 are quite large themselves and stick out of the ear a bit. Also they are push button rather than touch. I can't say anything bad about the Z7. The tuning is almost a slightly airier Final Audio tuning but with EQ the these can change significantly. One last thing, I really believe the Titanium Driver in this set needs a good 50 hrs (at the very least) burn-in or listen-in and they may require different tips.


----------



## Ceeluh7

dweaver said:


> The Lypertek Z7 is also a hybrid, right? Never tried that Brand yet, will do some reading...


Yes... 1 DD Titanium and two Balanced armature. I may be wrong but I'm pretty much convinced that the Z7 have the exact internals of the Noble Audio Falcon Pro. They share the same housing as well with only cosmetic differences.


----------



## jazzfish

Hey guys,

Seeking your kind help. I'm looking for wireless earphones mostly for work/zoom hence call quality should be good and since I do appreciate audio (I enjoy and own Westones 4R, Ortofon EQ5, Etymotics HF5, ER3XR), I wouldn't mind one with good SQ.

Which wireless solution might you recommend for me? I'm open to any budget range. I live in Singapore but happy to get from anywhere online.

Thank you kindly in advance.


----------



## C_Lindbergh

jazzfish said:


> Hey guys,
> 
> Seeking your kind help. I'm looking for wireless earphones mostly for work/zoom hence call quality should be good and since I do appreciate audio (I enjoy and own Westones 4R, Ortofon EQ5, Etymotics HF5, ER3XR), I wouldn't mind one with good SQ.
> 
> ...



Honestly I wouldn't recommend TWS for anything other than quick phone calls. The technology isn't just there yet, but things might change with the upcoming LE Audio. 

I guess that AirPods pro is decent within their ecosystem, but if you plan on using a TWS with a windows PC, thats a big no no imo.


----------



## botmann

jazzfish said:


> ...  I'm looking for wireless earphones mostly for work/zoom hence call quality  ...  might you recommend for me? ...


I suggest checking out Soundpeats. They are usually very affordable. I’ve owned and use(d) several models for close to five years. I like their TWS because you can use either ear by itself. The call quality is good. If using one ear piece, they more prone to pick up more background noise. I only get complaints if it windy. With using both, no complaints, but noticeable.

I personally like their H1s. They have least bassy sound signature. No ANC, but has some other noise cancelling that works best with both ear pieces. Dual driver, which stays pretty clean at high volumes. The ear piece has around 5 or 6 hour charge, and gets around 40 with moderate volumes with the case. The case also has wireless charging. Does have a phone app, but it’s pretty basic. I have used these at home, out in the city,car rides, airports, and airflights. Gym use is limited to my apartment buildings very small gym that has no TVs, music, and maybe one or two other people using at the same time as me. I think they’re a little over priced at the MSRP of $80. Good value in the $50-$60US.

I have, and don’t use as much, the Trueengine 3ER. More bassy compared to the H1 by a good amount. Still sound good. Dual driver, no ANC, a little less battery time; about 35 hours. No app. Similar call quality as the H1. Decent value in the $50-$60 range.

I have their cheapest model. Still bassy. Similar the Trueengine. Not as dynamic or airy soundstage. I haven’t had complaints on soundquality. I used these at the gym, so I didn’t have many phone conversations. These are good choice about getting stolen or ruined by sweat/water because they’re about $25-$35US.

Soundpeats release a new model, the mini pro. Single driver, ANC, wired charging. Reviews I’ve seen/read have been positive. I expect the call quality to be solid and similar to the H1 and Trueengine. I think they’re around $50US

There are many of cheaper brands that make solid options such as Soundcore and Anker which have more features.


----------



## jazzfish

Thank you. Just a quick search shows the following prices where I'm at for some random wireless earphones. (US dollars)
...
AKG N400 - $114
Sony WF XM3 - $124
Samsung Galaxy pro - $125
Lypertek Z7 - $152
Sony WF XM4 - $229
...

Happy to be recommended any other solutions as well.


----------



## guitarizt

tiagopinto said:


> I have no experience with the devices you mention. A friend owns the ifi go blu and loves it (as much as @Ceeluh7). Mojo, although old, is very good, but 500 bucks here at least. I do own the THX Onyx and LOVE it to pieces. I got it from Razer for 200 bucks. I’ve heard of occasional discounts. Check ASR’s review of it. I can’t praise it enough.


ASR scares me. I got a topping L50 which I'm in love with, recommended by Jason Lucas on his fb group, he's chifi audio on youtube. Khadas tone 2 pro coming next week for dac. Really surprised what a diff the L50 is making. It's a need imo, contrary to crin's recent vid. It has me considering getting a tk2 for mobile. Ceeluh7 has one ordered, I'll wait to see what he thinks.


----------



## jant71 (Mar 6, 2022)

Checking out the link given before(nice find!) it seems they are still sticking with that drawer style case. Anybody actually like that better than the way most open up? Creative also seem to want to keep it cheap. Still do a decent job but would be nice to see what they would do for a pricier model but don't think they are gonna go there. Or if they made a real overachiever for that $69 - $79 range.

I did try to find this model and I did. It is the Outlier Pro but no pics in the FCC filing to see what it looks like. Hopefully it is a really nicer model. As we know we are in a trend of the "Pro" moniker used more for effect on models that are still cheap and only somewhat improved over a previous base model and Pro can be quite watered down from being something special and higher end.


----------



## jant71

Also saw a new Monster model...




The Shenzen Monster though. The one you see on Amazon for $40 -$80. Not the American Brand Monster resurgence with the DNA Fit and Go models.


----------



## regancipher

jazzfish said:


> Hey guys,
> 
> Seeking your kind help. I'm looking for wireless earphones mostly for work/zoom hence call quality should be good and since I do appreciate audio (I enjoy and own Westones 4R, Ortofon EQ5, Etymotics HF5, ER3XR), I wouldn't mind one with good SQ.
> 
> ...


My 28 TWS call test.

Btw - spoiler alert, as per your first reply, for calls on the move, the best performers are ok, but for a permanent desk setup I use a USB mic


----------



## regancipher

This week I've been testing the Linkbuds repeatedly, getting more and more impressed with them. Same for the OnePlus Buds Pro - they're like a comfier, prettier, more practical FreeBuds Pro. Also had the Soundpeats mini Pro for about two weeks now so review coming on those in a few days, they're pretty good but again just fall short in a few areas.


----------



## tiagopinto

samandhi said:


> That is the word I would use about the IT07 also. Good adjective!
> 
> @tiagopinto There is a pair of the IT07 on the classified here on Head-Fi for 600 Euros in case you are interested BTW!
> 
> Edit: Oh, NM... The seller didn't mark it as sold, only in the comments below...



Yup, sold to Italy. And he’s right here in my country... oh well.


----------



## jant71

Man oh man! Great deal if anyone is interested


----------



## BooleanBones

jant71 said:


> Man oh man! Great deal if anyone is interested


what a steal. Wish I had extra space in my garage next to the Ferarri


----------



## Tenlow

Regarding the upcoming Sennheiser MTW3:

https://www.worldshop.eu/en/sennheiser-momentum-true-wireless-3-ear-headphones-black-1764265/


----------



## dmphile

Tenlow said:


> Regarding the upcoming Sennheiser MTW3:
> 
> https://www.worldshop.eu/en/sennheiser-momentum-true-wireless-3-ear-headphones-black-1764265/


I thought about this more after reviewing the pictures and specs. Seriously questioning Sennheiser's design and feature choices here. Charging port on the front? Nothing here really stands out. Without knowing what they are going to sound like, it's so far really disappointing...


----------



## Caipirina

jant71 said:


> Man oh man! Great deal if anyone is interested


Case only?


----------



## TK33

Caipirina said:


> Case only?


Lol. Think it's just for the "Additional Photos".  Earbuds and case are extra.


----------



## dweaver (Mar 7, 2022)

Tenlow said:


> Regarding the upcoming Sennheiser MTW3:
> 
> https://www.worldshop.eu/en/sennheiser-momentum-true-wireless-3-ear-headphones-black-1764265/


I like the new shape. When I tried the CX model I actually found the squareness easier to manage than round, this new design has rounded things but retained a certain amount of the square shape which should make them more ergonomic.

Aside from that the case looks the same and specs are very similar. So unless the audio if significantly improved it will be hard for me to consider shelling out the bucks on this new model (I never tried MTW2). This may be more about my residual anger about the MTW I bought that lasted less than 2 years with minimal usage...

I only just this year finally bought another $200+ MMCX based IEM over frustration with my failed Sony XBA-Z5 and other MMCX IEM's (5yrs!). I struggle to pay big money and then have stuff break so easily...


----------



## bladefd

Tenlow said:


> Regarding the upcoming Sennheiser MTW3:
> 
> https://www.worldshop.eu/en/sennheiser-momentum-true-wireless-3-ear-headphones-black-1764265/


Still a few weeks away from early reviews, but I look forward to reading them. It's 250 euros but curious to see if it stays at $250 USD in USA or translates through conversion rates.


----------



## botmann

Someone needs to update some YouTube videos about the world's most expensive headphones.   Who needs the HE1s.   They're obviously garbage comparatively


----------



## LCMusicLover

Well, I took a stab at some TWS IEMs (Cambridge Audio Melomania Touch).  And I'm ... pretty ... happy with them.  Definitely enjoy the charging case, the ease of use once I figured out which ear to touch 

Call quality is fine for what I do, which is fairly minimal -- mostly using my desk phone for longer calls.

But the sound quality was just OK.  Bass needed significant boost via EQ.  And I don't like that -- without a good measurement rig, applying EQ is kind of like trying to steer your vessel North by Northwest without a compass at night with thick cloud cover.  You can guess which way you're going, but you really don't know.

By comparison, I have a bluetooth behind-the-neck cable which I can use with my Penon Volts.  And the sound comparison isn't really that close, Volts knock the Melomanias right out of the ring.  Problem is the cable/Volts setup gives no control over the source, and they don't take calls.

All that said, am I wasting my time shopping for TWS IEMs, and should I really be looking for something like the UTWS-5 to use with my Volts or IT07s?  Side question, since Volts are 2-pin and IT07s are mmcx, would it be better to get the UTWS in mmcx for the 07s and get mmcx-to-2-pin adapters for the Volts, or vice versa.

I guess the real question is whether I'd like some other hi-end TWS IEMS (say Senn Momentum or one of the Nobles) enough, or would I constantly miss the better sound I get from my Volts and '07s?  Conversely, if I went to bluetooth amplifier/IEM combo, would issues with the ergonomics outweigh the improved sound quality?


----------



## samandhi

LCMusicLover said:


> But the sound quality was just OK. Bass needed significant boost via EQ.


You are either a serious bass-head, or you are not getting a good seal. I suspect the latter since you have the IT07. The MT have a LOT more quantity of bass than the IT07, and if you find those to have a good quantity of bass, then you just aren't getting a good seal. You wouldn't be the first. Most people don't with those in the beginning. The problem with them is that, while you CAN use regular IEM tips on them, and they will work great for getting a good seal, they don't fit into the box to charge. If you don't want to have to take the tips off each time you put them into the box, you are going to need to stick with short (TWS) tips. In my case I landed on the Spinfit CP360. The other possible trick is to go up a size larger than you would normally wear.


----------



## LCMusicLover

samandhi said:


> You are either a serious bass-head, or you are not getting a good seal. I suspect the latter since you have the IT07. The MT have a LOT more quantity of bass than the IT07, and if you find those to have a good quantity of bass, then you just aren't getting a good seal. You wouldn't be the first. Most people don't with those in the beginning. The problem with them is that, while you CAN use regular IEM tips on them, and they will work great for getting a good seal, they don't fit into the box to charge. If you don't want to have to take the tips off each time you put them into the box, you are going to need to stick with short (TWS) tips. In my case I landed on the Spinfit CP360. The other possible trick is to go up a size larger than you would normally wear.


Yes, they came with mediums installed, and I switched to large, but still less bass than Volts.  I didn't compare them to IT07s since I don't have a wireless solution for them now -- wouldn't exactly be an apples-to-apples comparison.

I'm quite familiar with the seal issue -- when I first got my IT03s, I was very disappointed in the bass until I did a little tip-swapping.  And I can hear a lot of differences when I adjust the Melomanias in my ear to get a better seal.  But even so, sub-bass is lacking -- Hey Now by London Grammar is a pretty good example.  Just a bunch of missing music if I run them with flat EQ.

Are you saying that the Spinfits can stay on them when put into the case?


----------



## samandhi (Mar 7, 2022)

LCMusicLover said:


> Yes, they came with mediums installed, and I switched to large, but still less bass than Volts.  I didn't compare them to IT07s since I don't have a wireless solution for them now -- wouldn't exactly be an apples-to-apples comparison.
> 
> I'm quite familiar with the seal issue -- when I first got my IT03s, I was very disappointed in the bass until I did a little tip-swapping.  And I can hear a lot of differences when I adjust the Melomanias in my ear to get a better seal.  But even so, sub-bass is lacking -- Hey Now by London Grammar is a pretty good example.  Just a bunch of missing music if I run them with flat EQ.
> 
> Are you saying that the Spinfits can stay on them when put into the case?


Your right that they wouldn't be apples to apples, but just to hear the quantity of bass. The IT07 aren't bass-head levels for sure, but they have very deep and extended bass, and the MT have just..... more! I think that most (that own the MT) would agree that these are definitely bass heavy (although not in a beats/skullcandy way).

Yes, the CP360 are TWS tips (shorter than normal). They came with my Nuarl N6 Pro (IIRC). Final has a TWS version of their Type E tip that I have read are also very good. Xelestic crystals are also a TWS tip and are great for seal with their heat forming material makeup.


----------



## Ceeluh7

LCMusicLover said:


> Well, I took a stab at some TWS IEMs (Cambridge Audio Melomania Touch).  And I'm ... pretty ... happy with them.  Definitely enjoy the charging case, the ease of use once I figured out which ear to touch
> 
> Call quality is fine for what I do, which is fairly minimal -- mostly using my desk phone for longer calls.
> 
> ...


I imagine you do not have a good seal because the CT are ridiculously bass heavy and if anything you need to eq the low end down a few db's, and I love bass... Try different tips and make sure the seal is really good.


----------



## botmann

LCMusicLover said:


> ... Are you saying that the Spinfits can stay on them when put into the case?





samandhi said:


> ...  the CP360 are TWS tips (shorter than normal) ....


I cannot comment on the Cambridge Audio Melomania Touch or IT07 since I never used them.   Thus I don't know about their cases either.   I do use Spinfit CP360 with Soundpeats H1.   I currently using a medium.   It works well and fits in the case without issue.   Everyone in a while the ear pieces dislodge or something they and case have no power.   I had this issue with the stock/original tips.   I do find the tips comfortable and have a better seal.   My issue is that after wearing them for a while, they get warms and ear pieces get lose.   If I'm eating or dipping down or something, the ear piece(s) will fall out.   I've actually ordered the XL/L and will try them out to see if it solves the issue.  I also think it's the ear wax gets between the tip and ear canal, which then acts a lubricant.


----------



## mikp

Tenlow said:


> Regarding the upcoming Sennheiser MTW3:
> 
> https://www.worldshop.eu/en/sennheiser-momentum-true-wireless-3-ear-headphones-black-1764265/


So, what ive read is  aptX™ adaptive is not backwards compatible with apx hd. So aptx for devices that notadaptive.


----------



## Ultrainferno

Today we have a double review of the new Final Audio ZE3000 TWS on Headfonia. Article by @Virtu Fortuna and @Aerosphere 

https://www.headfonia.com/final-audio-ze3000-review/


----------



## DigDub (Mar 8, 2022)

Creative outlier pro.

https://sg.creative.com/p/headphones-headsets/creative-outlier-pro

15hrs battery life, AAC, ANC, 10mm graphene driver. And that bulky case.


----------



## Tenlow (Mar 8, 2022)

Question to people who (still) own the B&O EQ:

Do you see a new firmware update in the app? Someone on reddit talked about a supposedly released 6.1.2 firmware update three days ago. He claimed it would include track skipping as well as multipoint which...seems a bit too good to be true  Also, I don't see anything in my app yet (I'm on iOS). Maybe there is something on Android? Or it was just a troll of course 

Edit: Forget it. Found it myself! And it is indeed true.

https://support.bang-olufsen.com/hc/en-us/articles/4403223166993-Beoplay-EQ-music-controls

Exciting


----------



## TK33 (Mar 8, 2022)

mikp said:


> So, what ive read is  aptX™ adaptive is not backwards compatible with apx hd. So aptx for devices that notadaptive.


My PI7, which support aptX adaptive, defaults to aptX HD with my Pixel 6.  Pixel 6 doesn't support aptX adaptive.  Perhaps it does not work with all devices, but I don't think you can assume it will fall back to aptX until someone has actually tried it.

Edit: could also be a case of marketing not really understanding the product...who knows.  I will likely give these (MTW3) a shot so will report back if I do get them.


----------



## mikp

TK33 said:


> My PI7, which support aptX adaptive, defaults to aptX HD with my Pixel 6.  Pixel 6 doesn't support aptX adaptive.  Perhaps it does not work with all devices, but I don't think you can assume it will fall back to aptX until someone has actually tried it.
> 
> Edit: could also be a case of marketing not really understanding the product...who knows.  I will likely give these (MTW3) a shot so will report back if I do get them.


ok, thanks. I remember the truewireless plus thing, then you needed specific chipset, firmware, updates etc etc.  No option to return in ears here, so once bought you better he happy with them. Like the mtw2, so would be interesting how these compares.


----------



## dmphile (Mar 8, 2022)

Tenlow said:


> Question to people who (still) own the B&O EQ:
> 
> Do you see a new firmware update in the app? Someone on reddit talked about a supposedly released 6.1.2 firmware update three days ago. He claimed it would include track skipping as well as multipoint which...seems a bit too good to be true  Also, I don't see anything in my app yet (I'm on iOS). Maybe there is something on Android? Or it was just a troll of course
> 
> ...


Wow, after all this time, they actually listened. I may consider going back to the EQ considering that I wrote to the CEO specifically for those two features


----------



## LCMusicLover (Mar 8, 2022)

@samandhi @Ceeluh7 -- thanks for the input.  I've ordered some of the Spinfits.

<small edit> 
I must say that I am hearing more bass, just seems like sometimes they're seated 'just right' and more shows up.  So I'm hopeful that the Spinfits will improve the seal enough to satisfy me.

On a different note, I wonder what the introductory discount on the Outlier Pros will be.

Worth a post in the 'Deals Discussion' thread?


----------



## jant71 (Mar 8, 2022)

DigDub said:


> Creative outlier pro.
> 
> https://sg.creative.com/p/headphones-headsets/creative-outlier-pro
> 
> 15hrs battery life, AAC, ANC, 10mm graphene driver. And that bulky case.


They doubled the price but it needs to be really improved. People don't really like paying $119 and getting only SBC and AAC. Not that it can't well be worth the price if they upped the quality but yet to be seen if they are worth it. Last one had connectivity issues so have to wait to hear about that. If you changed from graphene to bio-cellulose last time for SQ why are you going back to graphene now?  Case is big but you don't get much, 3 more charges at 15 + 45. At least the LavaBeans for the same size range gives me 12 charges instead of 3. 15 + 75 would be more for the $$$

Looks like the older Metalure ANC one but that has a better case. Most likely come from the same place.
https://www.metalure.co/product/anc-6


----------



## samandhi

LCMusicLover said:


> @samandhi @Ceeluh7 -- thanks for the input.  I've ordered some of the Spinfits.
> 
> <small edit>
> I must say that I am hearing more bass, just seems like sometimes they're seated 'just right' and more shows up.  So I'm hopeful that the Spinfits will improve the seal enough to satisfy me.
> ...


Do yourself a favor, and don't get too discouraged if they also don't seal well. The MT are worth the effort in getting a good seal IMHO.


----------



## Markttp (Mar 8, 2022)

Juturna said:


> Would you all recommend the Fiio UTWS3 for $120-ish or the Shure TW2 (without the Aonic/SE215) b-stock for $160-ish (ish because i'm loosely converting local currency to USD) or maybe even the Shure TW2 with the Aonic 215 for $180?
> 
> I wish I could get at least the Fiio cheaper than that, but for some reason Amazon in my country doesn't stock it, and ordering from the UK or the US will mean that I will pay some mighty import tax if i'm unlucky which makes it PROBABLY not worth it (****ing Brexit... otherwise UK would have been great to order from), I seem to recall Amazon Spain also having it for around €80-90 but I don't know Spanish and it seems like you can't get the amazon app in English if you're on the Spanish storefront for some reason so i'm not sure how that would pan out, seems like a hassle.
> 
> ...


Hi there

I think I've read in the past you're based in Sweden.

Just so you know, you can order stuff from Amazon UK and you won't pay much extra compared to a UK person. If you set the delivery location to your country (or log in), it will show you the final cost, with the only difference being that you have to pay maybe €7 extra for delivery compared to me in the UK (and a few euros due to Amazon's exchange rate not being the most competitive but you can avoid this if  you have a card that doesn't charge exchange fees and pay in £'s).

(We mostly pay around 20% VAT all around Europe and Amazon only have to pay it once to the country in which the person who bought resides, so the price is pretty much the same.)

With Amazon UK, you can even change the default currency to euros or krone at the bottom of the page.

Hope this gives you more options to consider in the future.

Eg utws3 works out as €88 for me in UK, and €96 (1140 kroneish) for you in Sweden, so definitely a premium but maybe not as much as you'd think, and mainly due to delivery. No customs stuff to worry about, amazon take care of all that.

Oh yeah, totally agree btw - f*$#ing Brexit lol!


----------



## Ceeluh7

samandhi said:


> Do yourself a favor, and don't get too discouraged if they also don't seal well. The MT are worth the effort in getting a good seal IMHO.


Agreed. Natural tuning and very dynamic. I have had these since the 1st week they were available and have since owned prob 50 tws and the Touch remains... You are right... Do the work to get the seal and you have a fantastic set of tws


----------



## LCMusicLover

samandhi said:


> Your right that they wouldn't be apples to apples, but just to hear the quantity of bass. The IT07 aren't bass-head levels for sure, but they have very deep and extended bass, and the MT have just..... more! I think that most (that own the MT) would agree that these are definitely bass heavy (although not in a beats/skullcandy way).
> 
> Yes, the CP360 are TWS tips (shorter than normal). They came with my Nuarl N6 Pro (IIRC). Final has a TWS version of their Type E tip that I have read are also very good. Xelestic crystals are also a TWS tip and are great for seal with their heat forming material makeup.


Apparently we missed the real story -- burn-in.  I'm not sure whether it's brain or IEM burn-in though.

Four days since I received them, I've probably got 25 hours on them, and I'm not missing bass nearly as much.  _Non Believer_ is finally satisfying.

I suspect that some of it is that I've been obsessively re-seating them until they sound correct, but I also think that the bass has improved with burn-in.

Tonight I'll go back and compare vs Volts again.

<edit>
Now, quite suddenly, the left IEM has stopped working -- at all.  Won't light up red in the case, won't make noise, won't pair, won't ... anything.

Coincided with the Spotify outage earlier this AM, but that seems unlikely to be the cause.

crap!


----------



## samandhi (Mar 8, 2022)

LCMusicLover said:


> Apparently we missed the real story -- burn-in.  I'm not sure whether it's brain or IEM burn-in though.
> 
> Four days since I received them, I've probably got 25 hours on them, and I'm not missing bass nearly as much.  _Non Believer_ is finally satisfying.
> 
> ...


Well, the good news is that CA has pretty good customer service. Sorry to hear your having issues with yours... 

Edit: I have had mine since close to when they were first released, and I can say they have been a tank, and have never had really any issues to speak of.


----------



## LCMusicLover (Mar 8, 2022)

samandhi said:


> Well, the good news is that CA has pretty good customer service. Sorry to hear your having issues with yours...
> 
> Edit: I have had mine since close to when they were first released, and I can say they have been a tank, and have never had really any issues to speak of.


Yep, it was weird.  Spotify stopped, and I went to pair my MTs with my DAP to play local music, and ... left just wouldn't come on/pair.

<edit> even worse, now I can't even get them to 'return to factory settings'.

Well, Amazon return policy


----------



## pholcus1975

Have you tried charging them overnight?


----------



## LCMusicLover

pholcus1975 said:


> Have you tried charging them overnight?


Yes, but since the problem just happened this AM, I haven't done so again.  But they're in the case right now.  Red LED lit up on the right IEM, nothing on left (I keep opening them to check ... c'mon ... damn!)

I wish there were a way to swap them in the case, or charge them another way.  Maybe it's just the charging system in the case on one side.

But whatever, Amazon is going to ship a replacement -- should receive Friday.


----------



## pholcus1975

Ok, I had a problem with mine, left bud seemed ko, but after a full charge returned to life.
Just for info, this is how to reset them: https://melomania.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/360014964837-How-do-I-reset-my-Melomania-Touch-


----------



## LCMusicLover

pholcus1975 said:


> Ok, I had a problem with mine, left bud seemed ko, but after a full charge returned to life.
> Just for info, this is how to reset them: https://melomania.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/360014964837-How-do-I-reset-my-Melomania-Touch-


Yep, I saw that when I was on their site for trouble-shooting info.  Right IEM went into 'reset' mode and came out ready to pair.  Meanwhile the left IEM didn't respond at all and just lay there quietly


----------



## regancipher

Soundpeats Mini Pro Review Up.

In short, better than the T2, but ANC is still a bit weak. Sound is pretty good for the price but going back to Bluetooth from IEM's is always a bit sobering, still you gotta give it Soundpeats for releasing a new bud every time the tech allows for it!


----------



## bladefd (Mar 8, 2022)

LCMusicLover said:


> Yes, but since the problem just happened this AM, I haven't done so again.  But they're in the case right now.  Red LED lit up on the right IEM, nothing on left (I keep opening them to check ... c'mon ... damn!)
> 
> I wish there were a way to swap them in the case, or charge them another way.  Maybe it's just the charging system in the case on one side.
> 
> But whatever, Amazon is going to ship a replacement -- should receive Friday.


MT has charging issues unfortunately. Some people don't have the issue, but I feel the majority do. If there is no red light then it is not charging, and it's not connecting because it's 0% charged.

It's all about the placement in the case. Try to remove from case and re-insert into case multiple times until the red light is blinking slow. I have to keep my case open to keep the MT charging. It's hell sometimes so I don't recommend MT to anyone anymore. Not worth the hassle.


----------



## LCMusicLover (Mar 8, 2022)

bladefd said:


> MT has charging issues unfortunately. Some people don't have the issue, but I feel the majority do. If there is no red light then it is not charging, and it's not connecting because it's 0% charged.
> 
> It's all about the placement in the case. Try to remove from case and re-insert into case multiple times until the red light is blinking slow. I have to keep my case open to keep the MT charging. It's hell sometimes so I don't recommend MT to anyone anymore. Not worth the hassle.


That certainly describes the problem I'm experiencing, thanks.  I'll work on it tonight.

Annoying that you can't see them in the app when they're in the case, supposedly charging.  Oh well.


----------



## botmann

regancipher said:


> Soundpeats Mini Pro Review Up.
> 
> In short, better than the T2, but ANC is still a bit weak. Sound is pretty good for the price but going back to Bluetooth from IEM's is always a bit sobering, still you gotta give it Soundpeats for releasing a new bud every time the tech allows for it!


I think Soundpeats does a good job, on most, models for value to price.   The only ones I'm not sure they good value are the H1, H2, and other buds over $50US.   This is more because other similar brands offer more features for the price.   

I will say, their customer service is pretty good.   They do try to work with you if you have an issue, either with refunds, replacements, or discounts.   I've gotten some deep discounts and refunds over the ear filters coming off.   I was able to use them to the H1 around $45US.

I haven't tried their OTE headset.   Since it's the first version, I'm guessing it'll be solid, but almost forgettable.   Probably hard find something similar at the price point


----------



## BooleanBones

BooleanBones said:


> and "50" hours charged if I recall. With run times like that, I don't mind wired charging


My 50 hour test starts tomorrow after a good charge


----------



## dmphile

pholcus1975 said:


> Ok, I had a problem with mine, left bud seemed ko, but after a full charge returned to life.
> Just for info, this is how to reset them: https://melomania.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/360014964837-How-do-I-reset-my-Melomania-Touch-


Despite how much I liked the Melomania Touch, they had way too many issues for me on the touch sensors and ruined the overall user experience.


----------



## Caipirina

regancipher said:


> Soundpeats Mini Pro Review Up.
> 
> In short, better than the T2, but ANC is still a bit weak. Sound is pretty good for the price but going back to Bluetooth from IEM's is always a bit sobering, still you gotta give it Soundpeats for releasing a new bud every time the tech allows for it!


Nice! I received mine only 2 days ago. Not sure how I feel about them yet, they sure pack a lot for that price point.


----------



## EMINENT (Mar 9, 2022)

Update on Linkbuds. So far I am really enjoying them for tv audio at night. Very minimal leakage. When wearing them sometimes I can't tell if I am listening to the tv audio in the room or the buds. Music does sound as described. Terrible. Could definitely be louder and more bassy. I found the highest 3 notches on my Fold 3 to be a reduction in sound quality/volume. 75% sounded better. Same crap that happended with the XM4's where they are attenuated after 75%. But, I didn't get them for music. They work perfectly for background music with a portal to the outside world. Just using them listening to music in the kitchen, I could hear my surroundings and roommates talk. No problems with fit or comfort. Using the large size and they are super comfy and no pressure or discomfort.


----------



## chinmie

How's the Linkbuds compare to the Samsung buds/bean in sound quality? I've watched several YouTube reviews saying that the Beans have better sound, maybe folks here can confirm or counter that?


----------



## LCMusicLover (Mar 9, 2022)

LCMusicLover said:


> That certainly describes the problem I'm experiencing, thanks.  I'll work on it tonight.
> 
> Annoying that you can't see them in the app when they're in the case, supposedly charging.  Oh well.


Well, my Melomania Touch came back to life -- after a lot of fiddling with them in the case I finally got the red LED to come on.  

After a while I took them out, paired them, and checked in the app.  Right module had 96% power, Left was 11%. Right now I'm at 100% left and 93% right.  Seems odd that the two modules don't have the same charge considering that they have always been used, stored and charged together.  I guess there's some randomness involved.

So @bladefd gets the trophy for figuring out my problem -- bad connection to charging in the case led to one module running flat.  Apparently, in that case (battery completely flat) behavior is ... unpredictable 

Anyway, thanks to all who helped.


----------



## samandhi

LCMusicLover said:


> Well, my Melomania Touch came back to life -- after a lot of fiddling with them in the case I finally got the red LED to come on.
> 
> After a while I took them out, paired them, and checked in the app.  Right module had 96% power, Left was 11%. Right now I'm at 100% left and 93% right.  Seems odd that the two modules don't have the same charge considering that they have always been used, stored and charged together.  I guess there's some randomness involved.
> 
> ...


Whichever one you pull out first will the the master, and because of that it will be the one that drains much faster than the other. 

Glad you got your problem solved.


----------



## bladefd

samandhi said:


> Whichever one you pull out first will the the master, and because of that it will be the one that drains much faster than the other.
> 
> Glad you got your problem solved.


It automatically switches master buds when the battery levels are too unbalanced to make up for the faster battery drain.


----------



## samandhi

bladefd said:


> It automatically switches master buds when the battery levels are too unbalanced to make up for the faster battery drain.


I would agree that that is what the "official" word is on how they function, but in my experience, the battery on the master can get really low before this happens, I've seen it as low as 30% (though I have not seen it reach as low as 11% while the other was almost full, for example). 

But, I would also submit that when brand new, the batteries might need conditioning a couple of times before they reach their full potential?! On the other hand, maybe he has a problem with them, I can't say with any surety.


----------



## LCMusicLover

samandhi said:


> I would agree that that is what the "official" word is on how they function, but in my experience, the battery on the master can get really low before this happens, I've seen it as low as 30% (though I have not seen it reach as low as 11% while the other was almost full, for example).
> 
> But, I would also submit that when brand new, the batteries might need conditioning a couple of times before they reach their full potential?! On the other hand, maybe he has a problem with them, I can't say with any surety.


Just to close the circle, I believe what happened is that both modules were drained _pretty far down_ and when I put them in the case, I didn't manage to get the Left module charging.  So, when I took them out the next morning, the Right module was fully charged, and the Left was still in the nearly discharged state it had been in the night before.  And I listened for a while that morning, until the Left was fully discharged.  And apparently when a module is fully discharged, the LED doesn't light up when you put it back in the case, leading me to think it was dead.


----------



## dweaver

You know you have good imaging when...

Your walking through a busy grocery store and listening to your music. As your shopping  you hear hammering and wonder what they working on in the store and then realize ita the new song that started... 

Your walking down the street listening to Pink Floyd and hear a bee and flinch because they scare the crap out of you and then realize it came the song High Hope...

Wor listening to Loreena Mckennit as your walking down the street and hear thunder and check the sky only to realize the song Lullaby just started...

The first story happened tonight using the UTWS5/FH5. The other stories have happened over the years.

Just one of the reasons I love a good IEM or headphone, they just add something new to the music.


----------



## starfly

What are currently the best wireless earbuds out there, with great battery life and decent ANC?


----------



## samandhi

LCMusicLover said:


> Just to close the circle, I believe what happened is that both modules were drained _pretty far down_ and when I put them in the case, I didn't manage to get the Left module charging.  So, when I took them out the next morning, the Right module was fully charged, and the Left was still in the nearly discharged state it had been in the night before.  And I listened for a while that morning, until the Left was fully discharged.  And apparently when a module is fully discharged, the LED doesn't light up when you put it back in the case, leading me to think it was dead.


That makes sense. Let us know how they work out for you after you get them "normalized"?! 



dweaver said:


> You know you have good imaging when...
> 
> Your walking through a busy grocery store and listening to your music. As your shopping  you hear hammering and wonder what they working on in the store and then realize ita the new song that started...
> 
> ...


This could be a perfect public service message!  I love it!


starfly said:


> What are currently the best wireless earbuds out there, with great battery life and decent ANC?


That question is way too general for anyone to be able to (honestly) answer. You might need to provide a bit more information in order for others to be able to better pinpoint what you might be looking for. I could throw out a ton of names that a lot of people say are good, but that doesn't make them good for you. 

And, I assume you are talking about in ear TWS, and not actual earbuds? Contrary to popular (consumer) review sites, earbuds are NOT what most searches pull up on Google.


----------



## jant71

samandhi said:


> And, I assume you are talking about in ear TWS, and not actual earbuds? Contrary to popular (consumer) review sites,
> earbuds are NOT what most searches pull up on Google.


Oh stop being difficult.  You know full well they don't mean "earbuds" if they want ANC. 

We really need some earbud TWS. Earpod style is not really an earbud. Nor are the Linkbuds cause last I checked there are zero earbuds with a hole in the middle nor would I want that. I know there are some but be nice to have a good one outside of putting a good bud on a FiiO adapter.


In other news Google working on nearfield gesture controls... https://www.techradar.com/news/goog...s-earbuds-could-be-controlled-using-your-skin


----------



## guitarizt

Listened to my friend's galaxy buds2 with my iphone the other day. Really surprised by the sound. Was similar to the pros but smoother and better slightly imo. I have the buds+, live, and pros. Pros are one of my go to tws's. The mic quality and ambient is great. Oh, and buds+ is awful. Live is objectively meh. They're not iems, but I like the sound quality more than the buds+ which I will reiterate being awful. Pros or buds2 or bust imo.

Pros are $65 refurb at bestbuy. Buds2 are $100 on woot. Ignoring price and pure sound quality I'd rather have the buds2. I'm not sure about batt life or mic and anc and transparency stuff between the two. The buds2 are also lighter and smaller and more comfortable for that reason. I've also lucked out with used on amazon for even cheaper prices. They came like new and not counterfeit so I've been lucking out. Just for anyone wanting a crazy good deal or not having to feel like they have to pull the trigger on the other two deals.


----------



## starfly

samandhi said:


> That makes sense. Let us know how they work out for you after you get them "normalized"?!
> 
> 
> This could be a perfect public service message!  I love it!
> ...



Alright, comfort is very important, and long battery life too. Willing to spend up to $300.

There is for example the Sony XM4, though those will have the typical Sony sound of course. 

What other options are there that would either have a neutral sound, or follow the Harman curve? Doesn't need to have the absolute best ANC out there, but should definitely be good. Oh, and it should have good call quality, will likely use it for conference calls as well.


----------



## Ceeluh7

guitarizt said:


> Listened to my friend's galaxy buds2 with my iphone the other day. Really surprised by the sound. Was similar to the pros but smoother and better slightly imo. I have the buds+, live, and pros. Pros are one of my go to tws's. The mic quality and ambient is great. Oh, and buds+ is awful. Live is objectively meh. They're not iems, but I like the sound quality more than the buds+ which I will reiterate being awful. Pros or buds2 or bust imo.
> 
> Pros are $65 refurb at bestbuy. Buds2 are $100 on woot. Ignoring price and pure sound quality I'd rather have the buds2. I'm not sure about batt life or mic and anc and transparency stuff between the two. The buds2 are also lighter and smaller and more comfortable for that reason. I've also lucked out with used on amazon for even cheaper prices. They came like new and not counterfeit so I've been lucking out. Just for anyone wanting a crazy good deal or not having to feel like they have to pull the trigger on the other two deals.


Still have yet to try the Buds 2. I saw some blah reviews on them. I still use my GBP routinely and they aren't bad. Not the best for SQ but good enough. It always seems that the Galaxy line is just missing energy throughout the spectrum. They sound pretty good but aren't really dynamic. I love the app and features and fit though and they are a perfect set to just have for everyday use. I'd like to try the GB2 at some point


----------



## Caipirina (Mar 10, 2022)

chinmie said:


> How's the Linkbuds compare to the Samsung buds/bean in sound quality? I've watched several YouTube reviews saying that the Beans have better sound, maybe folks here can confirm or counter that?


Yep, the sound of the beans is much more 'dynamic' IMHO .. back in the day I liked them so much, I even bought again when one side died due to sweat ...
But i would not really compare those, they are quite different animals .. no way I can easily hear my surroundings with the beans, or I can shut off the world with the links ...


----------



## TK33 (Mar 10, 2022)

Ceeluh7 said:


> Still have yet to try the Buds 2. I saw some blah reviews on them. I still use my GBP routinely and they aren't bad. Not the best for SQ but good enough. It always seems that the Galaxy line is just missing energy throughout the spectrum. They sound pretty good but aren't really dynamic. I love the app and features and fit though and they are a perfect set to just have for everyday use. I'd like to try the GB2 at some point


I have both the Galaxy Live (2 pairs) and Galaxy Buds2.  The sound for music on the Galaxy Buds2 is definitely better in my opinion (just sounds tighter and more refined to me while the Live can sound a bit boomy) but that is to be expected based on the differences in design.  Galaxy Buds2, while it uses the same app, also has more features such as both playback and volume controls, which can be activated in the app.

I do prefer the Galaxy Buds Live for calls, which is why I have two (one for home and one for the office).  Can't beat the open design for calls.  Also, I find the fit and comfort of the Galaxy Buds Live to be superior and have had the Galaxy Buds2 fall out of my ear a few times while eating (I have tried different tips but it is probably due to the shape of my ears and the shallow fit) whereas I have no issues eating or even riding my bike with the Galaxy Buds Live.  I keep both the Galaxy Buds Live and the Buds2 in the office but tend to use the Galaxy Buds Live more for phone calls and generally when walking around as I just find the open design more comfortable for daily work use.

EDIT: I should add that I believe that many had trouble with the fit of the Galaxy Buds Live so I guess I am lucky that they fit me really well.  For the Buds2, I believe I am using the Azla tips (had to buy multiple sizes to find one that worked).


----------



## chinmie

Caipirina said:


> Yep, the sound of the beans is much more 'dynamic' IMHO .. back in the day I liked them so much, I even bought again when one side died due to sweat ...
> But i would not really compare those, they are quite different animals .. no way I can easily hear my surroundings with the beans, or I can shut off the world with the links ...



Thanks for the input! i'm still daily driving my buds live at the moment, especially for around the house or walking/running around my neighborhood. i might check on the linkbuds when the price would come down a bit


----------



## Ceeluh7

TK33 said:


> I have both the Galaxy Live (2 pairs) and Galaxy Buds2.  The sound for music on the Galaxy Buds2 is definitely better in my opinion (just sounds tighter and more refined to me while the Live can sound a bit boomy) but that is to be expected based on the differences in design.  Galaxy Buds2, while it uses the same app, also has more features such as both playback and volume controls, which can be activated in the app.
> 
> I do prefer the Galaxy Buds Live for calls, which is why I have two (one for home and one for the office).  Can't beat the open design for calls.  Also, I find the fit and comfort of the Galaxy Buds Live to be superior and have had the Galaxy Buds2 fall out of my ear a few times while eating (I have tried different tips but it is probably due to the shape of my ears and the shallow fit) whereas I have no issues eating or even riding my bike with the Galaxy Buds Live.  I keep both the Galaxy Buds Live and the Buds2 in the office but tend to use the Galaxy Buds Live more for phone calls and generally when walking around as I just find the open design more comfortable for daily work use.
> 
> EDIT: I should add that I believe that many had trouble with the fit of the Galaxy Buds Live so I guess I am lucky that they fit me really well.  For the Buds2, I believe I am using the Azla tips (had to buy multiple sizes to find one that worked).


You have no idea how many eartips I went thru over the GBP. Countless. Until I managed to come across the Fiio bass tips....wow man they are perfect for me. Perfect and tight seal and GBP sound is enhanced obviously with the great seal. I will Chek out the GB2 soon


----------



## Devodonaldson (Mar 10, 2022)

chinmie said:


> How's the Linkbuds compare to the Samsung buds/bean in sound quality? I've watched several YouTube reviews saying that the Beans have better sound, maybe folks here can confirm or counter that?


I own both. I disagree with those reviews. I guess fit definitely matters but the linkbuds sound far more open and detailed. Bass is earbud bass, lower level of mideast with no feel of sub bass for sure. I q tally went to Sony eq and left flat and just turned the clear bass to the max. Doesn't negatively affect rest of sound IMO, because they don't produce bass like that, but gives enough on modern genres to at least know it's there. I don't mind them for r&b or a little hip hop occasionally. And now with the slight bass increase, my jazz, classical, etc. that has some bass gets a little better expression. Buds live Qin on bass output. Linkbuds sound far cleaner in every way possible. Definitely has the quality of a mini good sounding open back headphone. I have Fokus Pro as my go to, and listening to jazz I'll pick the link buds instead sometimes for the open presentation that just FEELS" more involved with the music presentation


----------



## Tenlow

On the B&O EQ update:


----------



## Tenlow

It's done. Finally the triple tap for skipping tracks. Works really well. Now testing the multipoint Bluetooth on these...


----------



## erockg

Tenlow said:


> It's done. Finally the triple tap for skipping tracks. Works really well. Now testing the multipoint Bluetooth on these...


Pipe dream, but did they raise the max volume levels?


----------



## Tenlow

erockg said:


> Pipe dream, but did they raise the max volume levels?


Actually, they do seem a bit louder right now but maybe that's just me being excited at the moment. Have to test that a bit more to be sure. 

That said, seamless switching between my MacBook and my iPhone works really (!) well. That's how things should have been right from the start with the EQ. Very happy right now.


----------



## Tenlow

So, honestly, I think they are slightly louder now. Problem is I cannot compare them to before of course but the tracks I usually listen to on Apple Music seem louder now. There was no mention of that from B&O in the change log of course, but they feel a bit louder now.


----------



## dmphile

Might pick them up again when they go on sale. I'm enjoying this combo too much right now.


----------



## ScrofulousBinturong

Late to the party. I just got a pair of Sony WF-WHATEVER-MX3 (previous gen) and I'm pretty impressed. They sound terrific. The ANC is OK. I was expecting my mind to be blown by the ANC because everybody was calling it a new gold standard a couple of years ago. It's... Fine? I guess? Maybe my expectations were too high. But my $35 Boltune over-ears' ANC performs just as well.

Regardless, for the $75 I paid (Amazon Warehouse), I'm certainly getting good sound quality.


----------



## Caipirina

ScrofulousBinturong said:


> Late to the party. I just got a pair of Sony WF-WHATEVER-MX3 (previous gen) and I'm pretty impressed. They sound terrific. The ANC is OK. I was expecting my mind to be blown by the ANC because everybody was calling it a new gold standard a couple of years ago. It's... Fine? I guess? Maybe my expectations were too high. But my $35 Boltune over-ears' ANC performs just as well.
> 
> Regardless, for the $75 I paid (Amazon Warehouse), I'm certainly getting good sound quality.


The ANC on the XM3 really really require a perfect fit / seal. I have 40$ models that do better ANC now (but the XM3 still have a fantastic sound. Too bad that mine are riddled with BT drops and I have to sit still to remain the perfect seal .. hence I don't use them that often anymore)


----------



## Steve_72

Just purchased the Kef MU3 and am taken aback how goods these actually are. I wasn’t expecting too much but the musicality, separation and layering are exceptional. A bit no frills in terms of features but the build and sq are punching way above their weight class, IMO. I’m reaching for these more than my Solaris or even full size headphones. Not just for the convenience factor but because of their sheer enjoyability. 

Thinking of getting a second set just as backup.!


----------



## erockg

Costco US has this package for $279 right now.


----------



## BooleanBones

erockg said:


> Costco US has this package for $279 right now.


nice!


----------



## C_Lindbergh (Mar 11, 2022)

Is there an option to automagically pause the music when enabling transparency mode for the B&O EQ?

And you can't customize the controls at all right? :/ That along with option to pause the music when enabling ambient mode is what I really like with Sennheiser/Technics!


----------



## Cretz42

erockg said:


> Costco US has this package for $279 right now.


That seems like a pretty good deal! Wish they had an even cheaper deal for the MW08 non sport model.
I am looking at these, the Technics AZ60 and the B&O Beoplay (EQ or B8).
I assume they all have great SQ, but anyone have comparative insight on connectivity (multi-point)/call quality/programmability between them?


----------



## erockg

Cretz42 said:


> That seems like a pretty good deal! Wish they had an even cheaper deal for the MW08 non sport model.
> I am looking at these, the Technics AZ60 and the B&O Beoplay (EQ or B8).
> I assume they all have great SQ, but anyone have comparative insight on connectivity (multi-point)/call quality/programmability between them?


I haven't tried multipoint on the B&O since they just updated that (and I don't have them anymore), but I did on the Technics and it works great.  I thought the volume on the EQ was low, but preferred them to the others.  They're just so dang pricy for what you get.  If they come down in price, I'd no doubt pick the EQ up again.  EQ sounds better than the E8 and has ANC with that new multipoint firmware update.  Go for newer tech IMO.


----------



## Artmuzz

Tenlow said:


> On the B&O EQ update:




I’m in the UK and the new software update with track skip function doesn’t appear to be released yet. I recently bought the B&O Beoplay EQ buds. I installed the iOS B&O app on my iPhone and when I paired them the app told me there was an update. Unfortunately the update is only v5.3.7. When will the new update be released in the UK?


----------



## Tenlow

Artmuzz said:


> I’m in the UK and the new software update with track skip function doesn’t appear to be released yet. I recently bought the B&O Beoplay EQ buds. I installed the iOS B&O app on my iPhone and when I paired them the app told me there was an update. Unfortunately the update is only v5.3.7. When will the new update be released in the UK?


The update didn't show up for me as well even though it was already out. What I did was: Removed the EQ from within the app and the phone and basically set them up like the were completely new. 

At the end of the setup process in the app the update immediately showed and I could install it. No idea if that was coincidence or luck but it worked for me. Might be worth a shot for you as well maybe.


----------



## Tenlow

erockg said:


> Costco US has this package for $279 right now.


Very nice deal! I still love the MW08S to this day and still think they are the best overall package everything considered. In a bundle with the charging pad for that price they are a no brainer, honestly.


----------



## Tenlow (Mar 11, 2022)

C_Lindbergh said:


> Is there an option to automagically pause the music when enabling transparency mode for the B&O EQ?
> 
> And you can't customize the controls at all right? :/ That along with option to pause the music when enabling ambient mode is what I really like with Sennheiser/Technics!


No option to pause the music when enabling transparency mode unfortunately, no.

And no also no user customisation for the controls. They just added the triple tap on the right and left bud for track skipping but it's not user customizable.


----------



## erockg

Tenlow said:


> Very nice deal! I still love the MW08S to this day and still think they are the best overall package everything considered. In a bundle with the charging pad for that price they are a no brainer, honestly.


I won't be updating them this time around!  4.4.5 keeps screwing up the mics on my end.  Odd.  

I emailed M&D and they're aware of the issue.  They said another update is coming out soon.  No ETA


----------



## Artmuzz

Tenlow said:


> The update didn't show up for me as well even though it was already out. What I did was: Removed the EQ from within the app and the phone and basically set them up like the were completely new.
> 
> At the end of the setup process in the app the update immediately showed and I could install it. No idea if that was coincidence or luck but it worked for me. Might be worth a shot for you as well maybe.



I removed the EQ from the app and removed them from my iPhone and then set them up again on my iPhone and app but still there is no new update and my Beoplay EQ still only shows v5.3.7.

I’ll have to contact B&O support.


----------



## LCMusicLover

LCMusicLover said:


> Just to close the circle, I believe what happened is that both modules were drained _pretty far down_ and when I put them in the case, I didn't manage to get the Left module charging.  So, when I took them out the next morning, the Right module was fully charged, and the Left was still in the nearly discharged state it had been in the night before.  And I listened for a while that morning, until the Left was fully discharged.  And apparently when a module is fully discharged, the LED doesn't light up when you put it back in the case, leading me to think it was dead.


Turns out the saga continues. The same problem happened again today, the left module just stopped working. Put it in the case and wiggled it around a bunch and just couldn’t get the red LED to show up. Came back to it an hour or two later and try it again in and then got it to light up. And then, after a while I paired them and looked in the app, and the left module had 46% which seems great so I put them in to listen. This time I had sound from the right ear, but not the left. Once again the problem was the left module. So I took it and out tried to just do the factory reset thing but that didn’t work. Put them back in the case and it didn’t light up again. 

Luckily, during the previous incident, I had actually called Amazon and after a little back-and-forth they agreed to send me a replacement set which arrived today. So I’ll try working with those and see if they do better. I’m also curious if I have the same story about bass improving after some burn in.

But for sure, if I get this problem again, it’ll be … moving on.


----------



## samandhi

LCMusicLover said:


> Turns out the saga continues. The same problem happened again today, the left module just stopped working. Put it in the case and wiggled it around a bunch and just couldn’t get the red LED to show up. Came back to it an hour or two later and try it again in and then got it to light up. And then, after a while I paired them and looked in the app, and the left module had 46% which seems great so I put them in to listen. This time I had sound from the right ear, but not the left. Once again the problem was the left module. So I took it and out tried to just do the factory reset thing but that didn’t work. Put them back in the case and it didn’t light up again.
> 
> Luckily, during the previous incident, I had actually called Amazon and after a little back-and-forth they agreed to send me a replacement set which arrived today. So I’ll try working with those and see if they do better. I’m also curious if I have the same story about bass improving after some burn in.
> 
> But for sure, if I get this problem again, it’ll be … moving on.


I don't know if this is considered a "technically correct" way to do this, but from my experience, and those that have also had issues on this thread back when they first came out, you must hold them away from the case (but lined up correctly), and drop them in from about 1/2" to 1" to get them to seat sometimes. For myself, I never had this problem, but I has always done this method, whether effective or not.

Sure hope you get your issue squared away, because they certainly are great sounding TWS. They actually had MORE technical issues when they first came out, but CA has been pretty persistent in fixing them. For the most part I think they have turned out to be a success story (considering where they came from IMO). Most other companies would have long since given up, and re-released them as an upgrade, or a pro version after fixing the issues. I remember that @miserybeforethemusic worked pretty closely with them to help them fix stuff wrong with them, and they were pretty responsive to the issues.


----------



## xuan87

Went to test the Nuarl N10 plus at a local audio store. The shop assistant gave me an odd look and plopped the LG FP9 in front of me too.

He said they can't move the Nuarl N10 plus due to how huge the iems and charging case are, while the FP9 are selling like hot cakes. 

No harm trying both since I was already there.

The Nuarl N10 plus sounded slightly better to me but it's strictly down to the FP9 being warmer than the N10. I can imagine most people picking the FP9 because of the bass. It's ample, rumbling bass but doesn't power over the mids. But I felt it lost abit in term of resolution compared to the N10.

The N10 is a no go though, it can't fit well in my ears and the huge charging case... If I try to fit it in my jean pocket, people will think I'm super well endowed.

I tried to read up on the FP series. It seems like all 3 models sound the same but just differs in features like uv cleaning, wireless charging etc?


----------



## Tenlow

Artmuzz said:


> I removed the EQ from the app and removed them from my iPhone and then set them up again on my iPhone and app but still there is no new update and my Beoplay EQ still only shows v5.3.7.
> 
> I’ll have to contact B&O support.


Have you tried resetting the buds to factory settings before setting them up again? Do you have the most recent version of the app?

Other than that, nothing that comes to mind right now. Maybe the update is released to certain geographical regions sooner/later 🤷🏻‍♂️


----------



## Artmuzz

Tenlow said:


> Have you tried resetting the buds to factory settings before setting them up again? Do you have the most recent version of the app?
> 
> Other than that, nothing that comes to mind right now. Maybe the update is released to certain geographical regions sooner/later 🤷🏻‍♂️



Yesterday, when I first paired my EQ buds to my iPhone and the app the only update available was v5.3.7. That update was installed. However, the newer update v6.1.2 doesn't show up so I'm stuck on v5.3.7.

I tried everything you mentioned. I reset my EQ buds to the factory settings, I removed the buds from the app and I even deleted the app and reinstalled the app but there is still no notification of the new v6.1.2 update.

Maybe it isn't available yet for customers in the UK. It would be interesting if any UK members could confirm this.


----------



## Tenlow

Artmuzz said:


> Yesterday, when I first paired my EQ buds to my iPhone and the app the only update available was v5.3.7. That update was installed. However, the newer update v6.1.2 doesn't show up so I'm stuck on v5.3.7.
> 
> I tried everything you mentioned. I reset my EQ buds to the factory settings, I removed the buds from the app and I even deleted the app and reinstalled the app but there is still no notification of the new v6.1.2 update.
> 
> Maybe it isn't available yet for customers in the UK. It would be interesting if any UK members could confirm this.


Seems like it will be released globally "within the next few days" someone just mentioned on reddit and who had this information from B&O customer support directly!


----------



## ldo77

ldo77 said:


> Did someone compare ze3000 with cx sennheiser ?


No one ?


----------



## Enn Jott (Mar 12, 2022)

Back in this forum after a longer absence because I decided to go fully wireless with headphones and in ears as I kind of stopped using my wired headphones grabbing the ever so convenient airpods pro instead. I've tried some of the former hyped ones such as the CA Melomania Touch and so on but nothing worked for me as I'm looking for neutralish in ears with as much soundstage as possible. That being said: Is there anything new out there that I should give a go?

I recently ordered the XM4s and was pretty disappointed (in many ways) and that's what brought me back here, actually. Now I have the EAH-AZ60s here with me, which are the first tws in ears I tend to like more than the ones I've had, but it's still to soon to judge them. Two things I noticed: I'm torn between earbud sizes - L fits good and sounds good, XL also ok but slightly alters sound. Other than that I adjust volume more often on these and they are pretty loud. I'm on 1/3 - 1/2 volume on my Macbook Pro.

Other question: Is there a thread like this one for over ears? Haven't found one that is posted on regularly and I need some advice in my ongoing search for good over ears too.


----------



## Caipirina

Steve_72 said:


> Just purchased the Kef MU3 and am taken aback how goods these actually are. I wasn’t expecting too much but the musicality, separation and layering are exceptional. A bit no frills in terms of features but the build and sq are punching way above their weight class, IMO. I’m reaching for these more than my Solaris or even full size headphones. Not just for the convenience factor but because of their sheer enjoyability.
> 
> Thinking of getting a second set just as backup.!


Haven't thought about these in a long while ... you made me look now again   Seems they are not easy to be found in Japan, but of course e-earphone has one pair available for about 180$ ... but for just a tad more I can also get a used set of AZ60 ... hmm .. and overall: I really do not need another set!


----------



## samandhi

Enn Jott said:


> Back in this forum after a longer absence because I decided to go fully wireless with headphones and in ears as i kind of stopped using my wired headphones an grabbing the ever so convenient airpods pro. I've tried some of the former hyped ones such as the CA Melomania Touch and so on but nothing worked for me as I'm looking for neutralish in ears with as much soundstage as possible. That being said: Is there anything new out there that I should give a go?
> 
> I recently ordered the XM4s and was pretty disappointed (in many ways) and that's what brought me back here, actually. Now I have the EAH-AZ60s here with me, which are the first tws in ears I tend to like more than the ones I've had, but it's still to soon to judge them. Two things I noticed: I'm torn between earbud sizes - L fits good and sounds good, XL also ok but slightly alters sound. Other than that I adjust volume more often on these and they are pretty loud. I'm on 1/3 - 1/2 volume on my Macbook Pro.
> 
> Other question: Is there a thread like this one for over ears? Haven't found one that is posted on regularly and I need some advice in my ongoing search for good over ears too.


I can't speak to the TWS because I haven't bought any in a while other than the Sony Linkbuds (but I can say that my Nuarl N6 Pro are pretty darned neutral), but for BT headphones unless there is something new I am not aware of, the Hifiman Deva Pro, and Hifiman Ananda BT are still the very best BT you can get.


----------



## dweaver

Enn Jott said:


> Back in this forum after a longer absence because I decided to go fully wireless with headphones and in ears as i kind of stopped using my wired headphones an grabbing the ever so convenient airpods pro. I've tried some of the former hyped ones such as the CA Melomania Touch and so on but nothing worked for me as I'm looking for neutralish in ears with as much soundstage as possible. That being said: Is there anything new out there that I should give a go?
> 
> I recently ordered the XM4s and was pretty disappointed (in many ways) and that's what brought me back here, actually. Now I have the EAH-AZ60s here with me, which are the first tws in ears I tend to like more than the ones I've had, but it's still to soon to judge them. Two things I noticed: I'm torn between earbud sizes - L fits good and sounds good, XL also ok but slightly alters sound. Other than that I adjust volume more often on these and they are pretty loud. I'm on 1/3 - 1/2 volume on my Macbook Pro.
> 
> Other question: Is there a thread like this one for over ears? Haven't found one that is posted on regularly and I need some advice in my ongoing search for good over ears too.


I have the AZ60 and they are my best TWS followed the the Galaxy Bud Pro. The GBP has a bit more mid treble energy the AZ60 has more bass-mid energy with decent treble.

But I recently bought the UTWS5 TW adapter and have paired it with the Fiio FH5 and have to say I have a hard time listening my other TWS since I got this combo. It just exposes all of the compromises TWS have in regard to audio quality.

I don't know of any good full-size headphone thread that is the equivalent to this.

Someone mentioned the 2 Hifiman BT options, I think those look good as they put an adapter onto the headphone if I am not mistaken this ensure the integrity of the headphone is not compromised by all the additional electronics. I believe Beyerdynamic also has a decent BT headphone option as well. Shure also has 2 different BT over ear headphones. Sony has just gone to dark over the past few years so getting hard to recommend them.


----------



## tiagopinto

Just out of curiosity, these are the walls for TWS (1,2), earbuds (3), HP’s (4) at a local retailer. Can’t try any out, not that there’s much there, but still.


----------



## Ceeluh7

tiagopinto said:


> Just out of curiosity, these are the walls for TWS (1,2), earbuds (3), HP’s (4) at a local retailer. Can’t try any out, not that there’s much there, but still.


Where is this located. We have nothing at all with this much selection


----------



## karloil

Ceeluh7 said:


> Where is this located. We have nothing at all with this much selection



I believe he's in Portugal


----------



## LordToneeus

I picked up the Jabra Elite 7 Pro and the Technics AZ60 at the same time. I am keeping the former and returning the latter. I’ve been a fan of the Elite Active 75t for a good while, and these really do improve upon them in just about every way. They work. They fit well. The sound isn’t disappointing. They feel substantial. I was struck by how cheap the Technics feel by contrast. I have smallish ears, and the Technics were a no go from the start. They protruded, and they were not comfy. The Jabra’s have them soundly licked there. Yes, the Technics sounded more  airy and open, but after I tried them out I put in my KZ Zex Pro + AZ09 adapters, and I thought “ok, those aren’t worth $229 to me.” The Jabra’s are a better, more comfy package, and the KZ combo sounded much better to me. And I really had high hopes for the Technics.


----------



## C_Lindbergh (Mar 12, 2022)

LordToneeus said:


> I picked up the Jabra Elite 7 Pro and the Technics AZ60 at the same time. I am keeping the former and returning the latter. I’ve been a fan of the Elite Active 75t for a good while, and these really do improve upon them in just about every way. They work. They fit well. The sound isn’t disappointing. They feel substantial. I was struck by how cheap the Technics feel by contrast. I have smallish ears, and the Technics were a no go from the start. They protruded, and they were not comfy. The Jabra’s have them soundly licked there. Yes, the Technics sounded more  airy and open, but after I tried them out I put in my KZ Zex Pro + AZ09 adapters, and I thought “ok, those aren’t worth $229 to me.” The Jabra’s are a better, more comfy package, and the KZ combo sounded much better to me. And I really had high hopes for the Technics.



Well ofc a pair of wireless adapters + proper IEMS will sound better...But then you lose various functionalities of a true tws + both the case/adapter are alot bulkier.

Personally I can't stand the sound quality of Jabras, unless they've improved drastically since I last tried a pair.

I don't think the AZ60s feels any cheaper than any other tws in the price range either.


----------



## LCMusicLover

LCMusicLover said:


> … But for sure, if I get this problem again, it’ll be … moving on.


Yep, same problem with the new set — this time it’s the right module. 

Maybe I’m just too stupid to get them to charge consistently, but I’m not going to live with this. Too bad, I like everything about them … when they work.


----------



## dweaver

I don't find my AZ60 cheap in any fashion either. But have realized I do at time find them uncomfortable in comparison to the FH5 which does add to my using the FH5 more along with better sound quality. 

My experience with Jabra was they sounded OK but lacking in detail and musicality. The Jabra was more comfortable though.


----------



## tonedeafmelomaniac

Sorry guys, one more quick question Fokus Pro vs Beoplay EQ for metal?


----------



## Enn Jott (Mar 13, 2022)

While I'm still tinkering with the technics EAH-AZ60 I just found news on the Momentum 3s. Sounds quite promising and I'll probably send the Technics back just to see what those Sennheisers can do. If they'd be priced at 249€ that would be nice too. Very curious about the "fins" - could be very similar to those on the CA MT2 which I really liked ...






Found on the Sennheiser thread on reddit:
https://www.worldshop.eu/en/sennhei...3-ear-headphones-black-1764265/?p=xXTkj83IXo4

p. s. sorry if this was posted before ...


----------



## C_Lindbergh (Mar 13, 2022)

I'll deffo get the new mtw 3 as well, at least from Amazon so that I can return them if they don't impress me enough.

It's hard to tell how much improvements Anc/SQ/comfort/transparency has made without trying for yourself 

But what I can tell is that the design is much more boring than before... Just plain black :/

I also hope they've worked hard on the touch controls since I'm now used for the AZ60 which has excellent controls.


----------



## Tenlow

The charging port on the front of the MTW3 looks a bit weird I think...


----------



## Toom (Mar 13, 2022)

Enn Jott said:


> While I'm still tinkering with the technics EAH-AZ60 I just found news on the Momentum 3s. Sounds quite promising and I'll probably send the Technics back just to see what those Sennheisers can do. If they'd be priced at 249€ that would be nice too. Very curious about the "fins" - could be very similar to those on the CA MT2 which I really liked ...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


https://www.pocket-lint.com/headpho...e-wireless-3-earbuds-set-to-launch-next-month

Colour me excited! I love my MTW2s.


----------



## dj24

Best Buy currently has the Samsung Galaxy Buds2 True Wireless Earbud Headphones (Refurbished, Graphite or Lavender) on sale for $55.


----------



## tiagopinto

Ceeluh7 said:


> Where is this located. We have nothing at all with this much selection



Are you serious? B&H, Bloom, Audio 46... these are NY and NJ but I’m sure there are more “local outlets”. Anyway, the market there is incomparably larger online. (I mean without import taxes and 4+ weeks shipping)



karloil said:


> I believe he's in Portugal



This is a store called FNAC in Lisbon, Portugal.


----------



## Ceeluh7

tiagopinto said:


> Are you serious? B&H, Bloom, Audio 46... these are NY and NJ but I’m sure there are more “local outlets”. Anyway, the market there is incomparably larger online. (I mean without import taxes and 4+ weeks shipping)
> 
> 
> 
> This is a store called FNAC in Lisbon, Portugal.


LOL... Ya where I am at there is nothing like that. Trust ive certainly checked. Anyways must be nice. For most of us in the States we have to order online which... It's not all bad. It would be very cool to have a place to test out certain sets. Oh well


----------



## jant71

tiagopinto said:


> Are you serious? B&H, Bloom, Audio 46... these are NY and NJ but I’m sure there are more “local outlets”. Anyway, the market there is incomparably larger online. (I mean without import taxes and 4+ weeks shipping)
> 
> 
> 
> This is a store called FNAC in Lisbon, Portugal.


Not worth taking the subway and getting slashed with a box cutter, pushed in front of a train, or having feces smushed in my face to go to B&H.


----------



## cresny

jant71 said:


> Not worth taking the subway and getting slashed with a box cutter, pushed in front of a train, or having feces smushed in my face to go to B&H.


Ok, that's a little harsh... But I bike everywhere so what do I know?


----------



## jant71

cresny said:


> Ok, that's a little harsh... But I bike everywhere so what do I know?


A bit but not too far from the truth unfortunately. I have never been messed with on the subway as mainly it is easier targets though I might just drive now. Not sure how it is driving now. Haven't driven in the city since 2018 but I have been one who has liked the driving in the city. Parking is the issue more than the driving. Used to be faster taking the subway to B&H than driving as long as you got the express.


----------



## erockg

Ceeluh7 said:


> Where is this located. We have nothing at all with this much selection


I was thinking the same thing when I saw that photo.  Pure heaven.


----------



## cresny (Mar 13, 2022)

Yep, no parking pretty much just keeps me to through-driving, in which case, yeah, it's pretty enjoyable. But really the subway is not bad except for the one time out of 20 that you get into the wrong car and you wish you had not just noise canceling headphones but smell canceling as well.


----------



## erockg

tonedeafmelomaniac said:


> Sorry guys, one more quick question Fokus Pro vs Beoplay EQ for metal?


I'm a metalhead too.  They both sound awesome.  EQ sounds sick and are sexy, but the Fokus has a balanced armature and will not doubt sound better to critical listeners.


----------



## dweaver

So I pulled out my Galaxy Buds Pro and  as per @Ceeluh7 suggestion threw on the Fiio Bass Tips and may have found my best TWS option to use as an alternative to the Fiio UTWS5/FH5 combo. 

Will do some testing against both Technics AZ60/70 but think the GBP just align better signature wise.


----------



## tonedeafmelomaniac

erockg said:


> I'm a metalhead too.  They both sound awesome.  EQ sounds sick and are sexy, but the Fokus has a balanced armature and will not doubt sound better to critical listeners.


Which one has more secure fit?


----------



## erockg

tonedeafmelomaniac said:


> Which one has more secure fit?


I can't speak to that as they both fit me well.  Tip rolling helped.  Two completely different form factors.


----------



## Ceeluh7

dweaver said:


> So I pulled out my Galaxy Buds Pro and  as per @Ceeluh7 suggestion threw on the Fiio Bass Tips and may have found my best TWS option to use as an alternative to the Fiio UTWS5/FH5 combo.
> 
> Will do some testing against both Technics AZ60/70 but think the GBP just align better signature wise.


They seem to work the best. I can't tell you how many tips I went thru before I tried those... Lol... Alot.


----------



## tiagopinto (Mar 14, 2022)

Ceeluh7 said:


> LOL... Ya where I am at there is nothing like that. Trust ive certainly checked. Anyways must be nice. For most of us in the States we have to order online which... It's not all bad. It would be very cool to have a place to test out certain sets. Oh well



Well online you have it all. Here, nowadays, if it’s from outside the EU, either you have a local distributor, which only happens with the likes of Fiio, ifi, Hiby, Campfire... but not always the latest products, the rest has taxes and shipping costs. Locally there’s no place to try them.
Anywho... this is mostly off-topic (there’s TWS in there) but I thought it’d be curious info. Cheers.


----------



## turbobb

Ceeluh7 said:


> They seem to work the best. I can't tell you how many tips I went thru before I tried those... Lol... Alot.


Any chance you can point out a link to purchase these Fiio bass tips?


----------



## Ceeluh7

turbobb said:


> Any chance you can point out a link to purchase these Fiio bass tips?


I have zero clue if you can purchase the tips separately. I have purchased quite a few Fiio iems over the years and their tips haven't changed, after time I end up with quite alot. Anyways I think the only way you can get their tips unfortunately is by buying Fiio iems... Not positive about that


----------



## bladefd

LCMusicLover said:


> Yep, same problem with the new set — this time it’s the right module.
> 
> Maybe I’m just too stupid to get them to charge consistently, but I’m not going to live with this. Too bad, I like everything about them … when they work.


My original MT from release day had the issue on the right side. My replacement has had issues on the left. I think most of them have issue on one side or the other. The ones who don't have issues on either side are outside of the norm.

I'm only using them until I find something else. Hopefully in the next few months, I'm moving on.


----------



## Ceeluh7

bladefd said:


> My original MT from release day had the issue on the right side. My replacement has had issues on the left. I think most of them have issue on one side or the other. The ones who don't have issues on either side are outside of the norm.
> 
> I'm only using them until I find something else. Hopefully in the next few months, I'm moving on.


Isn't that a shame. One of the best sets in its price point and Cambridge just can't seem to get this pair right! I have had my set since the first week on market and not one issue, in fact I had zero idea so many had issues until i looked at this thread. Such a shame. The driver housed within is a very capable and well implemented driver... The sound is so very good for a tws


----------



## dweaver (Mar 13, 2022)

turbobb said:


> Any chance you can point out a link to purchase these Fiio bass tips?


I peeked around and agree with Ceeluh7, you probably have to but a pair of their IEMs to get the tips. 

if you wear small I could send those to depending on where you live. Unfortunately I am using the large in my FH5 and the mediums in the GBP.


----------



## PixelSquish

jant71 said:


> LOL, Is it 2022 with 7 hours battery and the case doesn't make 30 hours either. AptX Loseless or Snapdragon Sound? LE firmware upgradable?
> 
> Slipping in a last current tech model here is not very exciting.



Yeah I don't expect much at all from the Senn battery life. The MTW2 battery life was rated with them at 50% volume (which was low) with no ANC and not even sure with which codec. That was the main area of improvement I wanted. That and a better quality ANC. Too bad, they sound really good and love having the AptX codecs.


----------



## samandhi

Ceeluh7 said:


> LOL... Ya where I am at there is nothing like that. Trust ive certainly checked. Anyways must be nice. For most of us in the States we have to order online which... It's not all bad. It would be very cool to have a place to test out certain sets. Oh well


+1


----------



## nekonhime

Have anyone try this bad boy?


----------



## bladefd

nekonhime said:


> H


You might want to delete that image. It shows your name and address!


----------



## nekonhime

bladefd said:


> You might want to delete that image. It shows your name and address!


Thank you. I forgot to check


----------



## botmann

nekonhime said:


> Thank you. I forgot to check


You did not want to do a blue light special at your house....   everything must go, LOL?


----------



## PixelSquish

bladefd said:


> MT has charging issues unfortunately. Some people don't have the issue, but I feel the majority do. If there is no red light then it is not charging, and it's not connecting because it's 0% charged.
> 
> It's all about the placement in the case. Try to remove from case and re-insert into case multiple times until the red light is blinking slow. I have to keep my case open to keep the MT charging. It's hell sometimes so I don't recommend MT to anyone anymore. Not worth the hassle.



Exactly why I returned mine. Loved the sound at the price, I do like bass, but having to baby them just to charge was a total deal breaker.


----------



## PixelSquish (Mar 14, 2022)

jant71 said:


> Not worth taking the subway and getting slashed with a box cutter, pushed in front of a train, or having feces smushed in my face to go to B&H.



Wow. So sad. You live in a paranoid alternate universe. I go to NYC all the time and it's a blast. Actually heading there shortly for work with my Sony's for the commute. I take mass transit into and around the city, lots of walking, subways, and biking in the nice weather. Just went to Bryant Park, the MOMA, the village recently and also to a MOTH mainstage event in West Harlem. Last year I went on like 30 plus dates in NYC from in half the neighborhoods in Manhattan to Brooklyn and it was just fine. And that was when Covid was worse than it is now.

It's nothing like you are talking about. Crime is up since Covid yes, but is still less than it was under Bloomberg, it's just much more amplified now especially by certain media outlets and a whole political party with an agenda, and yes the most drastic incidents get a lot of attention. Statistically it's still one of the safer big cities in the US. But actually just stay out, things are starting to get crowded so it's nice to have a few less people in there.


----------



## samandhi

PixelSquish said:


> Exactly why I returned mine. Loved the sound at the price, I do like bass, but having to baby them just to charge was a total deal breaker.


I feel bad for all the people that have had issues with theirs, because I have had none of the issues reported even all this time later...... There was that one time that I had to reset them because the right side quit working suddenly but doing so alleviated the issue permanently. And there was one time where one side failed to update the FW. But repeating the update succeeded.

It makes me feel bad because (even today) I recommend them to potential new buyers. Especially since they can be had for $70-$80 (compared to the mid $100s they were when they first came out).


----------



## TK33

PixelSquish said:


> Wow. So sad. You live in a paranoid alternate universe. I go to NYC all the time and it's a blast. Actually heading there shortly for work with my Sony's for the commute. I take mass transit into and around the city, lots of walking, subways, and biking in the nice weather. Just went to Bryant Park, the MOMA, the village recently and also to a MOTH mainstage event in West Harlem. Last year I went on like 30 plus dates in NYC from in half the neighborhoods in Manhattan to Brooklyn and it was just fine. And that was when Covid was worse than it is now.
> 
> It's nothing like you are talking about. Crime is up since Covid yes, but is still less than it was under Bloomberg, it's just much more amplified now especially by certain media outlets and a whole political party with an agenda, and yes the most drastic incidents get a lot of attention. Statistically it's still one of the safer big cities in the US. But actually just stay out, things are starting to get crowded so it's nice to have a few less people in there.


I have been commuting into the city as well.  I take the train into Penn Station and walk to the office (was walking to Upper East side even before COVID and Audio46 is conveniently on the way).  Have taken the subway a few times when in a rush as well.  Penn Station during 2020 was not great when nobody was around and the homeless started getting very aggressive (there were a few that would follow people around and come up to you and ask for money) but the city has cleaned up a lot since last summer and has been fine.  It is actually pretty crowded now with commuters and tourists.  There are some days I can't even get a seat on the train anymore.  Pretty much feels normal again.  Been using Aonic 50s on my commute since it's been cold (due to some ear pain IEMs have been giving me with the added benefit of keeping the ears warm while walking) but will have to switch back to PI7s now that it is getting warmer.  TWS are really convenient when you have to wear a mask and even using my Aonic 50s has gotten annoying compared to the convenience of TWS.


----------



## samandhi

TK33 said:


> Audio46 is conveniently on the way


Oh, that must suck for you?!  <is jealous>


----------



## NuckinFutz

Hi all, been a long time away but have been skulking around this thread for a while as I've been dipping my toe into TWS.



samandhi said:


> I feel bad for all the people that have had issues with theirs, because I have had none of the issues reported even all this time later...... There was that one time that I had to reset them because the right side quit working suddenly but doing so alleviated the issue permanently. And there was one time where one side failed to update the FW. But repeating the update succeeded.
> 
> It makes me feel bad because (even today) I recommend them to potential new buyers. Especially since they can be had for $70-$80 (compared to the mid $100s they were when they first came out).


Same for me, mostly.  I picked up a used pair and have had a couple of issues similar to yours but, generally speaking, they have been fine.
Having said that I have a pair of Buds + and in comparison the BT is weak for sure. I can deliberately get the signal to drop/skip by placing my hand around my phone (whilst at my side), whereas this never happens with the Buds+.

The MT sound great though, I'm really enjoying their dynamic and warm sound, very much to my liking.

My question to you guys is what has the same kind of dynamic and warm sound but is a step up, with a more holographic soundstage?  I like the stage of the MT, just wondering if there is something even better....


----------



## LCMusicLover

NuckinFutz said:


> ... just wondering if there is something even better...


Now where have I heard that before?


----------



## NuckinFutz

LCMusicLover said:


> Now where have I heard that before?


On every thread on Headfi 😙😊


----------



## Sam L

jant71 said:


> Is this really it...
> 
> 
> With outstanding sound quality and Adaptive Noise Cancellation, the MOMENTUM True Wireless 3 are an excellent choice if you're looking for ultimate listening pleasure. The Sennheiser TrueResponse transducer system delivers superior high-fidelity sound using high-resolution wireless transmission. Adaptive Noise Cancellation guarantees an undisturbed listening experience and automatically adapts the ANC level if the ambient noise level changes. The advanced system uses three microphones to continually monitor ambient noise and automatically optimise noise cancellation. When you want to be aware of your surroundings or have a conversation, the Transparent Hearing feature makes the ambient noise audible at the touch of a button.
> ...



Sennheiser will be taking my money -- this and the yet-to-be-avail-in-the-US ie600. Go Sennheiser!


----------



## logiatype

jant71 said:


> Is this really it...
> 
> Bluetooth® 5.2, Class 1


Wow, Class 1 bluetooth in an IEM? Might have seriously look at these. Does Senn have a good app?


----------



## tiagopinto

NuckinFutz said:


> Hi all, been a long time away but have been skulking around this thread for a while as I've been dipping my toe into TWS.
> 
> 
> Same for me, mostly.  I picked up a used pair and have had a couple of issues similar to yours but, generally speaking, they have been fine.
> ...



I also own and like the MT. Bought it at 130, it’s now at like 80... anyway, a steal. Despite its occasional instability, still great sound and stage for a TWS at that price.

What is your budget for this new endeavor? ANC is a biggie? Multipoint?

I’m not in purchase mode, but I’m gonna look deeper into this new Senn MTW3. If sound is your main goal, people here like the Fokus Pro and the AZ60... and many, many others. 

IEMs connected to Bluetooth adapters are also an option depending on your mobility options.

Narrowing down your must-haves is a must.


----------



## nekonhime

botmann said:


> You did not want to do a blue light special at your house....   everything must go, LOL?


I did in the third attempts, but thank you


----------



## nekonhime

Sam L said:


> Sennheiser will be taking my money -- this and the yet-to-be-avail-in-the-US ie600. Go Sennheiser!


Can't wait for your review


----------



## PixelSquish (Mar 14, 2022)

TK33 said:


> I have been commuting into the city as well.  I take the train into Penn Station and walk to the office (was walking to Upper East side even before COVID and Audio46 is conveniently on the way).  Have taken the subway a few times when in a rush as well.  Penn Station during 2020 was not great when nobody was around and the homeless started getting very aggressive (there were a few that would follow people around and come up to you and ask for money) but the city has cleaned up a lot since last summer and has been fine.  It is actually pretty crowded now with commuters and tourists.  There are some days I can't even get a seat on the train anymore.  Pretty much feels normal again.  Been using Aonic 50s on my commute since it's been cold (due to some ear pain IEMs have been giving me with the added benefit of keeping the ears warm while walking) but will have to switch back to PI7s now that it is getting warmer.  TWS are really convenient when you have to wear a mask and even using my Aonic 50s has gotten annoying compared to the convenience of TWS.



Yeah man. Penn Station was a rougher small area during the harshest parts of the lockdown, but the city was still overall pretty chill, especially starting last spring.  I am doing consulting so am in the city only here and there for a work project but it does consist of a lot of my social life since I live so close, like I said last year I was there for 30 plus dates and other excursions - including multiple 35 mile bike rides which is one of my favorite summer activities. So we ride all over Manhattan and Brooklyn and parts of Queens for whole day trips with lots of stops. Walking around today was absolutely lovely and besides a few masks, and a few larger commercial vacancies, it felt just like pre-Covid. I walked for about 2.5 hours looking at retail spaces all over to get an idea for a project for a client.

Anyways I've been hearing people say how NYC is a war zone for a while now since Covid started and it's getting tiring when I've been there a lot and interact with people from there all the time. When people paint the picture of NYC like that guy was in this thread, it's just insane right-wing propaganda and frankly I just don't have the patience for their nonsense anymore. Residential rents are pretty much back to their record setting levels from pre-Covid, though there are definitely some tough things from Covid -  NYC has  more commercial vacancies than before, due to Covid, and there are some more homeless people than before and there has been a rise in crime since 2019, but again, still one of the safer big cities in America. Remember since Bloomberg crime continued to drop every year under the next guy, so the spike didn't bring it back to any insane level.

Used the XM4's today during transit, love the ANC. I just wish they didn't have the one bud connect issue using LDAC with the Pixel phones.


----------



## logiatype

No matter what set I use, I keep coming back to the N6 Pro. Nothing else really gives me the same listening experience. Unhurried is the best way I can describe them. Don't know if it's their HDSS system it's like every bit of the sound has ample time to play out. The instrument separation is wild; you can just hear everything. Everything is there on other sets but much, much easier to pick out on the N6P. It gets harder to resist the N10P every day.

Anything else come close to these things?


----------



## NuckinFutz (Mar 14, 2022)

tiagopinto said:


> I also own and like the MT. Bought it at 130, it’s now at like 80... anyway, a steal. Despite its occasional instability, still great sound and stage for a TWS at that price.
> 
> What is your budget for this new endeavor? ANC is a biggie? Multipoint?
> 
> ...


I'm purely looking from a sound perspective, I don't need ANC, multipoint or any of that stuff. The BT adapters look interesting and I could use that solution at work but a pure TWS is just so convenient and small to carry about (I keep mine on me pretty much all the time).

Under £150 ideally, I also like shopping around for 2nd hand bargains.

I've read a bit about the Fokus Pro, I'd like to try them but a little expensive I think.

Any impressions of AZ60 Vs MT purely based on SQ and stage?


----------



## C_Lindbergh

NuckinFutz said:


> I'm purely looking from a sound perspective, I don't need ANC, multipoint or any of that stuff. The BT adapters look interesting and I could use that solution at work but a pure TWS is just so convenient and small to carry about (I keep mine in me pretty much all the time).
> 
> Under £150 ideally, I also like shopping around for 2nd hand bargains.
> 
> ...



If I remember correctly I prefer the MTs for pure SQ...But in every other aspect the AZ60 is just superior, so there's really no contest between them given all the problems of the MTs outside its awesome SQ.


----------



## drewbadour

Not sure if this has been asked before but is the UTWS3 worth buying for Dusk/Variations or should I definitely wait for the UTWS5 to come back in stock in more places and go with those?

Currently using Qudelix 5k for bluetooth but would prefer TWS form factor for more convenience.


----------



## bladefd (Mar 14, 2022)

PixelSquish said:


> Used the XM4's today during transit, love the ANC. I just wish they didn't have the one bud connect issue using LDAC with the Pixel phones.


Are you referring to the lack of TWS+ mode? Pixel just doesn't have TWS+ mode unfortunately. I don't know what the hell is Google thinking.. It has the chip for it and everything, but their software doesn't support it. Makes no sense to me, and they don't exactly have a customer support to reach out to AFAIK.. Pretty disappointing. I don't think I'm buying another Pixel in the future.

The phone choices are so limited. I used to have Samsung s7, but they install too much bloatware crap that it bogs down the phone. I thought I would try one close to vanilla android with earliest updates so I went with Pixel 3 once my Samsung broke couple years ago. I don't know what to try next.. Maybe Sony?


----------



## drewbadour

bladefd said:


> Are you referring to the lack of TWS+ mode? Pixel just doesn't have TWS+ mode unfortunately. I don't know what the hell is Google thinking.. It has the chip for it and everything, but their software doesn't support it. Makes no sense to me, and they don't exactly have a customer support to reach out to AFAIK.. Pretty disappointing. I don't think I'm buying another Pixel in the future.
> 
> The phone choices are so limited. I used to have Samsung s7, but they install too much bloatware crap that it bogs down the phone. I thought I would try one close to vanilla android with earliest updates so I went with Pixel 3 once my Samsung broke couple years ago. I don't know what to try next.. Maybe Sony?


Samsung has come a long way since the S7. No useless bloat anymore and what they do install feels like an improvement over stock android.

(I am a pixel user but constantly jealous of my partner's Samsung phones)


----------



## mt877

drewbadour said:


> Not sure if this has been asked before but is the UTWS3 worth buying for Dusk/Variations or should I definitely wait for the UTWS5 to come back in stock in more places and go with those?
> 
> Currently using Qudelix 5k for bluetooth but would prefer TWS form factor for more convenience.


I was gonna ask this same basic question, but slightly different way.

Here goes: Is it worth it to get the UTWS3 now or wait until FiiO irons out the bugs with the UTWS5? Looks like the UTWS5 can be bought at AE, but of course there's the shipping time as well.


----------



## erockg

drewbadour said:


> Not sure if this has been asked before but is the UTWS3 worth buying for Dusk/Variations or should I definitely wait for the UTWS5 to come back in stock in more places and go with those?
> 
> Currently using Qudelix 5k for bluetooth but would prefer TWS form factor for more convenience.


Get the 5 over the 3 IMO.  More power, ambient mode and wireless charging.  Newer tech.  You'll also need the MMCX version with a 2 Pin adapter.  Female connector on the Dusk and Variation is recessed.  It's annoying.  If you got the MMCX version, you'd have to cut off the metal ring around the 2 Pin connector on the UTWS5 then file the plastic to make it narrow enough to fit the Dusk or Variations.  Been there.  Wound up flipping my Variations and going with a Thieaudio IEM and today trying out the SeeAudio Midnight with the Shure TW2 adapters.  Loving them


----------



## erockg

mt877 said:


> I was gonna ask this same basic question, but slightly different way.
> 
> Here goes: Is it worth it to get the UTWS3 now or wait until FiiO irons out the bugs with the UTWS5? Looks like the UTWS5 can be bought at AE, but of course there's the shipping time as well.


Honestly, I had both.  Kept my 5s.  They're better and I haven't had any issues with mine.  I did have a pair and returned them for the replacement I'm using now.  No issues though.  Also, installed the beta with ambient mode.  They rock.  Got them from Audio46.  Their stock comes in and goes out fast.


----------



## mt877

erockg said:


> Honestly, I had both.  Kept my 5s.  They're better and I haven't had any issues with mine.  I did have a pair and returned them for the replacement I'm using now.  No issues though.  Also, installed the beta with ambient mode.  They rock.  Got them from Audio46.  Their stock comes in and goes out fast.


Thanks! Yeah, I'll go with the 5s. I only have a couple of MMCX cabled IEMs and zero 2 pin. The 3s would probably drive them just fine, but it's better to get the newer tech with more power and latest functionality to boot.


----------



## drewbadour

erockg said:


> Get the 5 over the 3 IMO.  More power, ambient mode and wireless charging.  Newer tech.  You'll also need the MMCX version with a 2 Pin adapter.  Female connector on the Dusk and Variation is recessed.  It's annoying.  If you got the MMCX version, you'd have to cut off the metal ring around the 2 Pin connector on the UTWS5 then file the plastic to make it narrow enough to fit the Dusk or Variations.  Been there.  Wound up flipping my Variations and going with a Thieaudio IEM and today trying out the SeeAudio Midnight with the Shure TW2 adapters.  Loving them


I went from midnight to dusk and now variations. What made you choose midnight over the other two?


----------



## samandhi

mt877 said:


> Thanks! Yeah, I'll go with the 5s. I only have a couple of MMCX cabled IEMs and zero 2 pin. The 3s would probably drive them just fine, but it's better to get the newer tech with more power and latest functionality to boot.


Unless the 5 comes back soon, I am considering the 3. Not so much because I am impatient, but because I have nothing that can do AptX Adaptive. Yes, the 5 has more power, but I only have one set that is hard to drive (TinHifi P1). I don't really need ambient mode because I will occasionally be using classic earbuds with them. As for S/N and THD, only having AptX available kinda' makes the small differences irrelevant IMO. Plus battery life is longer on the 3 from what I am reading. 

All that being said, can anyone think of another argument (that I might have missed or am wrong about) that I might want to pay $60(ish) more dollars for something that really doesn't benefit my specific setup? I really want to want the 5, but the more time goes by, the more I realize I can't benefit so much from the newer tech, and etc... I would be using them with my Note 9, iBasso DX300, and DX160. Probably the DXs more because Samsung has gimped BT codecs on the phone in favor of their proprietary adaptive codec.


----------



## PixelSquish (Mar 14, 2022)

drewbadour said:


> Samsung has come a long way since the S7. No useless bloat anymore and what they do install feels like an improvement over stock android.
> 
> (I am a pixel user but constantly jealous of my partner's Samsung phones)


Yeah I've been a Nexus and Pixel guy the last 8 years, and I've been keeping up with Samsung and I'm not so worried about the OS anymore, and they finally are giving updates faster and for longer. The only thing keeping me from a Samsung this year is the camera is just poor in lower light for anything that moves slightly.

I would have switched to a Samsung s22 because the six pro has been a bit of a disappointment. Not terribly but enough to have tried the Samsung if the camera was better.


----------



## erockg

drewbadour said:


> I went from midnight to dusk and now variations. What made you choose midnight over the other two?


I've only had the Blessing 2 and the Variations, but they don't gel with the Fiio unless you use the adapter on the bt adapters.  For me, it makes the arm too long and they just never sat right.  I love them both but I actually think I prefer the mellow balance sound of the Midnight.  For most stuff, I use my Monarch MK2.  Midnight arrived after a late might wild hair seeing them on Amazon and delivered with Prime


----------



## TK33 (Mar 14, 2022)

drewbadour said:


> Samsung has come a long way since the S7. No useless bloat anymore and what they do install feels like an improvement over stock android.
> 
> (I am a pixel user but constantly jealous of my partner's Samsung phones)


Since this is a TWS thread, I do think the fact that Samsung cripples other Bluetooth codecs in favor of their own Scalable codec should be mentioned (sorry for repeating again since I know this has probably been discussed before), even though, in my opinion, I think they make some of the best Android phones and tablets.  I have had every Galaxy phone since the GS3 - GS9 and still have the Tab S7 FE (which I think it a great tablet and my wife loves her Flip3 and had the S10 before that). However, I stopped using Samsung phones when I started getting into TWS because I got turned off by the fact that they don't support aptX HD or aptX adaptive and I have not had any Samsung devices that could automatically (i.e. no need to mess with Developer Options) achieve and maintain a stable LDAC 990 connection like my LG V60 and OnePlus 8T do.  My Pixel 6 is not the snappiest of phones and also doesn't do LDAC 990 well but it is half the price of new Samsung phones and aptX HD works really well (also got it because it has dual SIM if you use eSIM).  I do prefer the Samsung UI to Pixel but I actually like the OnePlus software the best (OnePlus 8T has a terrible camera though). I found the OnePlus 8T to be the most stable in terms of Bluetooth connection among my three current phones and pretty much use it as a Bluetooth DAP for commuting these days.

EDIT - just wanted to add that, while codecs may not be a priority for everyone (and many just don't care about them), I probably spend as much time listening to music as I do looking my phone (not really into social media or anything like that, time spent on audio related forums excluded) and if I am going to be buying all these Bluetooth devices (TWS, ES100/Qudelix, headphones) then I would rather be able to utilize them to their full capability.


----------



## samandhi

TK33 said:


> Since this is a TWS thread, I do think the fact that Samsung cripples other Bluetooth codecs in favor of their own Scalable codec should be mentioned (again), even though, in my opinion, I think they make some of the best Android phones and tablets.  I have had every Galaxy phone since the GS3 - GS9 and still have the Tab S7 FE (which I think it a great tablet and my wife loves her Flip3 and had the S10 before that). However, I stopped using Samsung phones when I started getting into TWS because I got turned off by the fact that they don't support aptX HD or aptX adaptive and I have not had any Samsung devices that could automatically (i.e. no need to mess with Developer Options) achieve and maintain a stable LDAC 990 connection like my LG V60 and OnePlus 8T do.  My Pixel 6 is not the snappiest of phones and also doesn't do LDAC 990 well but it is half the price of new Samsung phones and aptX HD works really well (also got it because it has dual SIM if you use eSIM).  I do prefer the Samsung UI to Pixel but I actually like the OnePlus software the best (OnePlus 8T has a terrible camera though). I found the OnePlus 8T to be the most stable in terms of Bluetooth connection among my three current phones and pretty much use it as a Bluetooth DAP for commuting these days.


I know what you mean, and totally agree with you. I have owned every Note phone since the Note II (up to my current Note 9), and I have watched them slowly take features away (good features, not obsolete ones), and increase the price. Once my Note 9 dies, I will either DIY replace the battery, or move on to another company. They used to be innovators, now they simply copy the best parts of what other makers come out with (mainly Apple), and take away features only to bring some of them back behind a pay wall. If I could (and have security) I would GLADLY go back to my Note 4. It had all the features you could ever want (for the tech of that time). Gimping BT codecs 2 years into owning my Note 9, and without warning, did not make me happy, to say the least. 

Disclaimer: All of these ideas are solely my opinion, and no phones were harmed in the making of this paragraph.


----------



## mt877

samandhi said:


> Unless the 5 comes back soon, I am considering the 3. Not so much because I am impatient, but because I have nothing that can do AptX Adaptive. Yes, the 5 has more power, but I only have one set that is hard to drive (TinHifi P1). I don't really need ambient mode because I will occasionally be using classic earbuds with them. As for S/N and THD, only having AptX available kinda' makes the small differences irrelevant IMO. Plus battery life is longer on the 3 from what I am reading.
> 
> All that being said, can anyone think of another argument (that I might have missed or am wrong about) that I might want to pay $60(ish) more dollars for something that really doesn't benefit my specific setup? I really want to want the 5, but the more time goes by, the more I realize I can't benefit so much from the newer tech, and etc... I would be using them with my Note 9, iBasso DX300, and DX160. Probably the DXs more because Samsung has gimped BT codecs on the phone in favor of their proprietary adaptive codec.


The reason I asked about the bugs with the 5s is because of the bad initial experience with the Grell TWS/1. I don't really want to go through a company's "beta test program" again. So I may wait on the 5s, I'm not in any rush.


----------



## samandhi

mt877 said:


> The reason I asked about the bugs with the 5s is because of the bad initial experience with the Grell TWS/1. I don't really want to go through a company's "beta test program" again. So I may wait on the 5s, I'm not in any rush.


Good point. Nor am I in a rush, though I have been watching/waiting since about this time last year.  At some point I guess I need to "s**t or get off the pot" as it were.


----------



## mt877

samandhi said:


> Good point. Nor am I in a rush, though I have been watching/waiting since about this time last year.  At some point I guess I need to "s**t or get off the pot" as it were.


I got the funds, but still recovering from the last shopping spree we did together... LOL!


----------



## xuan87

Just a photo of the store I was at and what they have available for demo.

I tried the LG FP9 on the 12th, tried the FP5 and FP8 today so will give a quick summary of what I think of the sound.

On paper I expected all 3 of them to sound similar, because they have the same sized driver, and tuned by the same company, but if I had tried them without looking at them, I would have guessed that they are from different companies.

The FP5 was probably my favorite, it's the most balanced among all 3 with good clarity and resolution. I won't call it bass light, but of the 3, it has the least bass. 

The FP8 was the worst sounding, the entire sound signature was just strangely very muffled compared to the FP5 with more flabby bass. Very strange.

The FP9 will probably be the crowd pleaser, it has great rumbly bass, better mids and highs compared to the FP8.

Honestly, I feel FP5 and FP9 are on similar levels but their signatures are so different that you will likely prefer one over the other.

I'm now on the prowl to look for a good deal on a second hand FP5 set.


----------



## yoru1119 (Mar 15, 2022)

Hey guys
Just come across this thread and wondering if anyone can recommend me a nice sound quality wireless earbud?
I have only used wired IEM before (my current one is Westone W4).
I listen to all sort of music (ranging from orchestra, acoustics to synthpop and EDM), and i love me a wide soundstage and clear mids/highs. Not a big fan of overly bassy earbud.
Don't really have a budget atm, as I have no clue....

Thanks!


----------



## Ceeluh7

mt877 said:


> I was gonna ask this same basic question, but slightly different way.
> 
> Here goes: Is it worth it to get the UTWS3 now or wait until FiiO irons out the bugs with the UTWS5? Looks like the UTWS5 can be bought at AE, but of course there's the shipping time as well.


Both are very good units however the price increase for the 5 is justified imo. The 3 is a fantastic adapter in its own right. Tuned well and slightly less power than the 5. Personally I enjoy the 5 alot more and it stands to reason that I would. It has its own dac separate from the SOC as well as an upgraded amp section that really does a nice job... The tonality is really fantastic. Both are very good but if you can get the 5..........get the 5


----------



## Ceeluh7

samandhi said:


> Unless the 5 comes back soon, I am considering the 3. Not so much because I am impatient, but because I have nothing that can do AptX Adaptive. Yes, the 5 has more power, but I only have one set that is hard to drive (TinHifi P1). I don't really need ambient mode because I will occasionally be using classic earbuds with them. As for S/N and THD, only having AptX available kinda' makes the small differences irrelevant IMO. Plus battery life is longer on the 3 from what I am reading.
> 
> All that being said, can anyone think of another argument (that I might have missed or am wrong about) that I might want to pay $60(ish) more dollars for something that really doesn't benefit my specific setup? I really want to want the 5, but the more time goes by, the more I realize I can't benefit so much from the newer tech, and etc... I would be using them with my Note 9, iBasso DX300, and DX160. Probably the DXs more because Samsung has gimped BT codecs on the phone in favor of their proprietary adaptive codec.


The 5 doesn't have that much more power... Really man. It's slightly noticeable but nothing crazy. The 3 is nice


----------



## ldo77

Do you know if there is an Android application for the final audio ZE3000 ?


----------



## Caipirina

yoru1119 said:


> Hey guys
> Just come across this thread and wondering if anyone can recommend me a nice sound quality wireless earbud?
> I have only used wired IEM before (my current one is Westone W4).
> I listen to all sort of music (ranging from orchestra, acoustics to synthpop and EDM), and i love me a wide soundstage and clear mids/highs. Not a big fan of overly bassy earbud.
> ...


Just throwing some thoughts out here: 
a) you can look around scarbir.com for some ideas on the budget market ... there's just SO much out there. 
b) my current favs and thus recommendations would be the Soundcore Liberty 3 Pro, the Fiil T2 Pro and ... heck, those are actually the 2 I am currently reaching for the most ... I also really enjoy the Bose QC Earbuds and Sony XM4, which are price wise on the top end ... and if you are an Apple fanboy, the APP as well as the Beatd Fit Pro are very nice and fit well in the ecosystem

Really depends on your needs (work out? Lots of phone calls? ANC needed? ) and then budget ... you can go super cheap with 25$ and the RealMe Neobuds Pro, which are surprisingly good for that cheap .. or up to the 400+ echelons of the BW Pi7 or Gemini from Devialet ... 

Also, once you check out this rabbit hole, there is a good chance that you end up with more than one set of TWS ... you have been warned


----------



## yoru1119 (Mar 15, 2022)

Caipirina said:


> Just throwing some thoughts out here:
> a) you can look around scarbir.com for some ideas on the budget market ... there's just SO much out there.
> b) my current favs and thus recommendations would be the Soundcore Liberty 3 Pro, the Fiil T2 Pro and ... heck, those are actually the 2 I am currently reaching for the most ... I also really enjoy the Bose QC Earbuds and Sony XM4, which are price wise on the top end ... and if you are an Apple fanboy, the APP as well as the Beatd Fit Pro are very nice and fit well in the ecosystem
> 
> ...


Will check out the earbuds you mentioned, thanks!

It's actually quite simple for me, it's just for casual outdoor use like taking public transport or walking in a shopping mall. With ANC would be nice, but not the most important factor.
Expensive ones are fine, presumably better sound quality?
I have looked around for some ideas, I saw people recommend sennheiser, jabra etc. but there is just so many out there!
I actually tried devialet gemini at store before! Not a right fit for me, it's a bit too bassy and tight for me (tho I'm not sure if it was on ANC or off ANC when i was trying).


----------



## david8613

hey guys, i am usually a samsung buds user had them all very nice sound great features currently using the pros. i wanted to try something better sounding during a recent sale i picked up some sony xm4, sound quality is good just a notch up from samsung pros, anc was excellent better than samsung pros, fit not so good ears hurt some after use, samsungs feel better. what I am looking is small size, long battery life, good fit, excellent sound but i like fun club dance music style sound. what should i look at? pi7 battery is abismal for that high price, dont like that. i dont mind refurb either, im cool with that.


----------



## BooleanBones

yoru1119 said:


> Will check out the earbuds you mentioned, thanks!
> 
> It's actually quite simple for me, it's just for casual outdoor use like taking public transport or walking in a shopping mall. With ANC would be nice.
> Expensive ones are fine, presumably better sound quality?
> ...


If you have the option of taking the Bang and Olufsen EQ for a spin, they sound like they would fit the bill. Comes with a decent little EQ wheel in their app to temper any bass you don't want. They sound especially nice with vocal and acoustical sets in my opinion. You will want to make sure the volume level is acceptable if you do end up testing them out. Personally, I really like my Fokus Pros, but they are feature free mostly. That said, passive isolation is really good for me on them.


----------



## erockg

I'm a sucker for tiny TWS buds.  Just ordered these:  https://www.amazon.com/dp/B09PYVXXW5?psc=1&smid=AQOGOT0PT63RY&ref_=chk_typ_imgToDp

$15 off with the code: ComfoMini15


----------



## xuan87

david8613 said:


> hey guys, i am usually a samsung buds user had them all very nice sound great features currently using the pros. i wanted to try something better sounding during a recent sale i picked up some sony xm4, sound quality is good just a notch up from samsung pros, anc was excellent better than samsung pros, fit not so good ears hurt some after use, samsungs feel better. what I am looking is small size, long battery life, good fit, excellent sound but i like fun club dance music style sound. what should i look at? pi7 battery is abismal for that high price, dont like that. i dont mind refurb either, im cool with that.



I'll recommend you look at the Marshall Mode II.


----------



## cresny

mt877 said:


> The reason I asked about the bugs with the 5s is because of the bad initial experience with the Grell TWS/1. I don't really want to go through a company's "beta test program" again. So I may wait on the 5s, I'm not in any rush.


The UTWS5 has been great for me, and I use them all the time over the past several weeks. Maybe two times can I remember having to restart one because it lost connection. But hardly a bother and in the scheme of things, perhaps normal. Definitely a far cry from troublesome. I'm using a Pixel 6 Pro for what it's worth.


----------



## dweaver (Mar 15, 2022)

cresny said:


> The UTWS5 has been great for me, and I use them all the time over the past several weeks. Maybe two times can I remember having to restart one because it lost connection. But hardly a bother and in the scheme of things, perhaps normal. Definitely a far cry from troublesome. I'm using a Pixel 6 Pro for what it's worth.


I had a couple bigger hiccups when I first started using the UTWS5 but they have since stabilized for the most part. Like Cresny an occasional restart of the buds (maybe 3 times). Once connected they are rock solid in regards to dropouts. The sound quality eclipses any TWS I have owned by a fair margin at least when using the FH5 as the IEM.

Not the best ambient sound mode and call quality is not as good as some of the TWS I own but adequate according to the few people I have called.


----------



## Tenlow (Mar 15, 2022)

BooleanBones said:


> If you have the option of taking the Bang and Olufsen EQ for a spin, they sound like they would fit the bill. Comes with a decent little EQ wheel in their app to temper any bass you don't want. They sound especially nice with vocal and acoustical sets in my opinion. You will want to make sure the volume level is acceptable if you do end up testing them out. Personally, I really like my Fokus Pros, but they are feature free mostly. That said, passive isolation is really good for me on them.


+1 for the B&O EQ. Especially after the latest update they are very nice and if the go loud enough for you, they are one of the best TWS out there now.

Other recommendations would be the M&D MW08 Sport which check all the boxes easily (though they might be a tad too bassy for you) and maybe even the Sony WF-1000XM4 if they fit your ear and you like their sound signature (they have a good EQ as well in the app to reduce the bass a bit).

You already ruled out the Devialet Gemini but I think they are great sound wise. They likewise have an EQ in the app if they're too bassy for you btw 

And who knows how good the new Sennheiser MTW3 will be next month. They might be worth considering as well!


----------



## Tenlow

xuan87 said:


> I'll recommend you look at the Marshall Mode II.


I had them. Sent them back. They're nicely small and very comfortable but they're not exactly the best sounding buds out there. They do get loud, though. Battery life is also average and IIRC the don't have ANC, too.


----------



## botmann

TK33 said:


> ... I have had every Galaxy phone since the GS3 - GS9 and still have the Tab S7 FE (which I think it a great tablet and my wife loves her Flip3 and had the S10 before that). ... Samsung phones... don't support aptX HD or aptX adaptive ...





samandhi said:


> ...  I have owned every Note phone since the Note II (up to my current Note 9), and ... slowly take features away (good features, not obsolete ones), and increase the price. ...  If I could (and have security) I would GLADLY go back to my Note 4. ...


I am with you on some of these sentiments.   I had a Note II, then a Note 4.   I used for the Note 4 till I got the Note 10+.   Because of how I use my phone at the time, I would need a new battery every 12 to 18 months and I like rooting my phone.   I'm currently using a Note 20 Ultra.   It would be nice if Samsung had some of the other AptX, but I can live with it.   I'm more upset about them taking away the microSD slot forcing us to pay way too much for more storage.   Some phone carriers do not ever offer higher storage units.   Plus, some Samsung is pushing the foldable phones, which I understand, but it's another spot to break.   All I ever want is a large candy bar phone, expandable memory, removable (or easily replaced) battery.  Of course more RAM, and CPU/GPU with more cores and faster speeds.

I do agree, some of the features remove is a load of doodie.   I do like the UI they use overall.   I do like Dex and hope they continue to develop it further.   This will push other manufacturers or Google to bring a desktop environment.   I also like they have the hardware to support some music interfaces such as the iRig UA for guitar amp simulation; Apples does this a lot better.   Then again, if I could, I would ditch my PC using mobile solutions.   Unfortunately, some things I have to use a PC


----------



## mt877 (Mar 15, 2022)

Ceeluh7 said:


> Both are very good units however the price increase for the 5 is justified imo. The 3 is a fantastic adapter in its own right. Tuned well and slightly less power than the 5. Personally I enjoy the 5 alot more and it stands to reason that I would. It has its own dac separate from the SOC as well as an upgraded amp section that really does a nice job... The tonality is really fantastic. Both are very good but if you can get the 5..........get the 5


Despite the 5 not being in stock in the US, seems best price is at Audio46. I did find some sellers on AE with the same price.



cresny said:


> The UTWS5 has been great for me, and I use them all the time over the past several weeks. Maybe two times can I remember having to restart one because it lost connection. But hardly a bother and in the scheme of things, perhaps normal. Definitely a far cry from troublesome. I'm using a Pixel 6 Pro for what it's worth.


Thanks for the reassurances. From what I've read FiiO has got it under control and sounds like new enhancements like LHDC support could be added in a future update. I hope that comes true. I know LHDC is not really mainstream at the moment and limited to Android. What I found is LHDC is baked into the FiiO music player app. I loaded the FiiO player on my ZX507 and there is a setting in the player to turn on HWA (LHDC) support. I tested it with the Grell TWS/1 (which support LHDC) and LHDC was working (only during use of the FiiO app).



dweaver said:


> I had a couple bigger hiccups when I first started using the UTWS5 but they have since stabilized for the most part. Like Cresny an occasional restart of the buds (maybe 3 times). Once connected they are rock solid in regards to dropouts. The sound quality eclipses any TWS I have owned by a fair margin at least when using the FH5 as the IEM.
> 
> Not the best ambient sound mode and call quality is not as good as some of the TWS I own but adequate according to the few people I have called.


A few hiccups is probably par for the course. I think all electronic devices are forever cursed to have some hiccups, it's just a matter of minimizing them. I'm not too focused on the phone call quality because my use case is pretty much listening to music with a few calls once in a while.


----------



## ElKabong

Caipirina said:


> Just throwing some thoughts out here:
> a) you can look around scarbir.com for some ideas on the budget market ... there's just SO much out there.
> b) my current favs and thus recommendations would be the Soundcore Liberty 3 Pro, the Fiil T2 Pro and ... heck, those are actually the 2 I am currently reaching for the most ... I also really enjoy the Bose QC Earbuds and Sony XM4, which are price wise on the top end ... and if you are an Apple fanboy, the APP as well as the Beatd Fit Pro are very nice and fit well in the ecosystem
> 
> ...


In the rabbit hole now, and it looks as if i'll be there awhile. I have two more coming, XM4 and Klipsch T5II. Hoping to see daylight sometime soon.


----------



## BigZ12

Technics EAH-AZ60 for NOK 1200 - $133? (Full price is NOK 2399 - $266 here in Norway)
Used 1 time. The owner won them at work. No receipt :/ He thinks his B&O EQ is better, and rather keep them.
Should I buy them? Or just stick to the plan, and wait for the MTW3?? 
(BTW, I've sold my TRN30/Mele combo, Lypertek Pureplay Z7, Sony XM4, Devialet Gemini lately...)


----------



## voicemaster

erockg said:


> Get the 5 over the 3 IMO.  More power, ambient mode and wireless charging.  Newer tech.  You'll also need the MMCX version with a 2 Pin adapter.  Female connector on the Dusk and Variation is recessed.  It's annoying.  If you got the MMCX version, you'd have to cut off the metal ring around the 2 Pin connector on the UTWS5 then file the plastic to make it narrow enough to fit the Dusk or Variations.  Been there.  Wound up flipping my Variations and going with a Thieaudio IEM and today trying out the SeeAudio Midnight with the Shure TW2 adapters.  Loving them


Actually the 2 pin version of UTWS5 connected to Variation is pretty secure in my experience.


----------



## erockg

voicemaster said:


> Actually the 2 pin version of UTWS5 connected to Variation is pretty secure in my experience.


You're very lucky.  Both my 3 and 5... the right side didn't stay in great.  Also, they didn't go all the way in because of that recessed port.  Drove me nuts.


----------



## Caipirina

BigZ12 said:


> Technics EAH-AZ60 for NOK 1200 - $133? (Full price is NOK 2399 - $266 here in Norway)
> Used 1 time. The owner won them at work. No receipt :/ He thinks his B&O EQ is better, and rather keep them.
> Should I buy them? Or just stick to the plan, and wait for the MTW3??
> (BTW, I've sold my TRN30/Mele combo, Lypertek Pureplay Z7, Sony XM4, Devialet Gemini lately...)


get the az60 now and the MTW3 later  Can possibly always resell the AZ60 at 1200NOK


----------



## Caipirina

ElKabong said:


> In the rabbit hole now, and it looks as if i'll be there awhile. I have two more coming, XM4 and Klipsch T5II. Hoping to see daylight sometime soon.


Good luck with that ... not working for me ... 

My resolve to abstain from new purchases until APP2 was kicked in the nuts yesterday with a friendly lightning deal email from amazon, the Edifier Neobuds pro for ~72€ ... how can I say no? 

Your post also made me look up the Klipsch T5II ... this is a never ending rabbit hole!


----------



## nekonhime

Caipirina said:


> Good luck with that ... not working for me ...
> 
> My resolve to abstain from new purchases until APP2 was kicked in the nuts yesterday with a friendly lightning deal email from amazon, the Edifier Neobuds pro for ~72€ ... how can I say no?
> 
> Your post also made me look up the Klipsch T5II ... this is a never ending rabbit hole!


I think they on sale for 199 or something on amazon. Gonna sale mine because I like the EQ better


----------



## samandhi

mt877 said:


> Thanks for the reassurances. From what I've read FiiO has got it under control and sounds like new enhancements like LHDC support could be added in a future update. I hope that comes true. I know LHDC is not really mainstream at the moment and limited to Android. What I found is LHDC is baked into the FiiO music player app. I loaded the FiiO player on my ZX507 and there is a setting in the player to turn on HWA (LHDC) support. I tested it with the Grell TWS/1 (which support LHDC) and LHDC was working (only during use of the FiiO app).


There are indeed other apps that have it baked in, though they are new enough that some are buggy or don't work at all. You will have to experiment with them: Here

The Hifiman Deva have it baked in also, though it isn't even advertised on their website. Which is funny, because Hifiman sits on the board of the LHDC alliance.


----------



## mikp

BigZ12 said:


> Technics EAH-AZ60 for NOK 1200 - $133? (Full price is NOK 2399 - $266 here in Norway)
> Used 1 time. The owner won them at work. No receipt :/ He thinks his B&O EQ is better, and rather keep them.
> Should I buy them? Or just stick to the plan, and wait for the MTW3??
> (BTW, I've sold my TRN30/Mele combo, Lypertek Pureplay Z7, Sony XM4, Devialet Gemini lately...)


ive been looking at some used az60 also, but rather wait to see what mtw3 does. If its backwards with aptx-hd etc. Hoping for a 2499 nok starting price, - then a power 20% sale eventually.


----------



## Artmuzz (Mar 16, 2022)

I managed to update my Beoplay EQ to the new software version v6.1.2 as it’s now available in the UK.

However, only one bud (the left bud) works since updating and I cannot reset to factory settings by pressing on the two buds in the case for 5 seconds. I have tried removing the buds from my iPhone and reconnecting but still only the left bud works. Any help?


----------



## BigZ12

mikp said:


> ive been looking at some used az60 also, but rather wait to see what mtw3 does. If its backwards with aptx-hd etc. Hoping for a 2499 nok starting price, - then a power 20% sale eventually.


I have a Fiio BTA30 Pro (LDAC, AptX HD (not adaptive)) in my living room, connected to my HTPC. The AZ60 has LDAC, that is one reason to buy it.


----------



## mikp

BigZ12 said:


> I have a Fiio BTA30 Pro (LDAC, AptX HD (not adaptive)) in my living room, connected to my HTPC. The AZ60 has LDAC, that is one reason to buy it.


ldac was also my only reason for it. But what bitrate would it default too?


----------



## Enn Jott (Mar 16, 2022)

mikp said:


> ldac was also my only reason for it. But what bitrate would it default too?


Mine (AZ60) "fall back" to aac if I don't prioritize ldac on android. aac is the best I get with these on my mac with anyway (it can actually do aptX). Noticable? Yes, but it's not bad or anything. Connection seems more stable though, ldac seems to be problematic sometimes.


----------



## Artmuzz

I’m not impressed with the Beoplay EQ. Since updating them the right earbud has stopped working which is unacceptable. I have updated lots of devices and it’s never broke the device. I had to take them back to the shop for a refund. I was very upset taking them back because the sound quality was sublime in the Beoplay EQ. I really regret updating to v6.1.2 but I needed the track skip function but instead all the update did was break the ear buds.


----------



## erockg

Spent most of this week having fun with the SeeAudio Midnight on my Shure TW2 adapters.  Great soundstage.  Pretty balanced and they fit the adapters and my ears very well with the OKCSC 2 Pin adapter.  I had the Thieaudio Legacy 4 on them, (I still have them) but they're much more shouty in comparison with a tighter/narrower soundstage.  The Midnight are much more open, relaxed and easy to listen to.  For $199 I can highly recommend this IEM.  Pleasantly surprised by them.


----------



## mt877 (Mar 16, 2022)

samandhi said:


> There are indeed other apps that have it baked in, though they are new enough that some are buggy or don't work at all. You will have to experiment with them: Here
> 
> The Hifiman Deva have it baked in also, though it isn't even advertised on their website. Which is funny, because Hifiman sits on the board of the LHDC alliance.


Fell into the trap of getting a Shanling M3X because it was advertised as having both LDAC and LHDC, which it does sort of... LDAC is is in the bluetooth stack, so it's system wide. LHDC is only built into the Shanling music player app, same as the FiiO music player app. It would be great if LHDC was in the bluetooth stack too. I ended up installing the FiiO app on the Shanling because the Shanling music app has a sub-par user interface.

Edit: Rolled the dice and went ahead with the UTWS5 purchase from AE. Considering the unknown wait time for when they get back in stock in the US and possibly missing the boat as other people snap them up I decided to buy from AE and just wait for the delivery.


----------



## erockg (Mar 16, 2022)

1MORE Comfobuds Mini are TINY!  Thankfully, Sound ID is incorporated in the 1More app.  Not like the Grell.  Works well.  ANC is not the greatest but impressive considering the price.  I'll be testing them out for a few days.  If ANC works this well, they might be a good sleeping pair.  Case has Qi charging.  Volume controls, play/pause on the buds. You can't toggle between ANC and Transparency by a touch and hole on the buds.


----------



## samandhi

mt877 said:


> Fell into the trap of getting a Shanling M3X because it was advertised as having both LDAC and LHDC, which it does sort of... LDAC is is in the bluetooth stack, so it's system wide. LHDC is only built into the Shanling music player app, same as the FiiO music player app. It would be great if LHDC was in the bluetooth stack too. I ended up installing the FiiO app on the Shanling because the Shanling music app has a sub-par user interface.
> 
> Edit: Rolled the dice and went ahead with the UTWS5 purchase from AE. Considering the unknown wait time for when they get back in stock in the US and possibly missing the boat as other people snap them up I decided to buy from AE and just wait for the delivery.


I have found that the best implementation (to my ears) is in the Hifiman app. The problem is that the music player portion of the app is crappy at best. 

Congratz on your purchase!


----------



## LCMusicLover

mt877 said:


> Fell into the trap of getting a Shanling M3X because it was advertised as having both LDAC and LHDC, which it does sort of... LDAC is is in the bluetooth stack, so it's system wide. LHDC is only built into the Shanling music player app, same as the FiiO music player app. It would be great if LHDC was in the bluetooth stack too. I ended up installing the FiiO app on the Shanling because the Shanling music app has a sub-par user interface.
> 
> Edit: Rolled the dice and went ahead with the UTWS5 purchase from AE. Considering the unknown wait time for when they get back in stock in the US and possibly missing the boat as other people snap them up I decided to buy from AE and just wait for the delivery.


I rolled a different pair of die, ordered open-box UTWS3 from Audio46.  I don't think any of my IEMs are particularly demanding, so the lower power probably won't matter. Dual DACs?  Who can say?  I suppose I'll eventually try the UTWS5 when they come in at Amazon.  

BTW, I had a PM exchange w/ FiiO here -- they said another month for UTWS5 availability in the US.


----------



## ilatimer1

Artmuzz said:


> I managed to update my Beoplay EQ to the new software version v6.1.2 as it’s now available in the UK.
> 
> However, only one bud (the left bud) works since updating and I cannot reset to factory settings by pressing on the two buds in the case for 5 seconds. I have tried removing the buds from my iPhone and reconnecting but still only the left bud works. Any help?


I updated mine today as well, but everything went fine. I am sorry you are having problems.


----------



## Tenlow

ilatimer1 said:


> I updated mine today as well, but everything went fine. I am sorry you are having problems.


Same here. Update went smoothly. No problems whatsoever, luckily.


----------



## nekonhime

Artmuzz said:


> I managed to update my Beoplay EQ to the new software version v6.1.2 as it’s now available in the UK.
> 
> However, only one bud (the left bud) works since updating and I cannot reset to factory settings by pressing on the two buds in the case for 5 seconds. I have tried removing the buds from my iPhone and reconnecting but still only the left bud works. Any help?


Did you try to hold it for a long time with it plugged in your ear? Mine sometimes act out a bit but still ok.


----------



## mt877

samandhi said:


> I have found that the best implementation (to my ears) is in the Hifiman app. The problem is that the music player portion of the app is crappy at best.
> 
> Congratz on your purchase!


I always wonder how a high-end maker would settle on a mediocre user experience for their player app.


----------



## mt877

LCMusicLover said:


> I rolled a different pair of die, ordered open-box UTWS3 from Audio46.  I don't think any of my IEMs are particularly demanding, so the lower power probably won't matter. Dual DACs?  Who can say?  I suppose I'll eventually try the UTWS5 when they come in at Amazon.
> 
> BTW, I had a PM exchange w/ FiiO here -- they said another month for UTWS5 availability in the US.


The UTWS3 probably has more than enough power to drive the few IEMs I have as well. The equipment in this field is being developed pretty quickly as manufacturers one up each other. Because of that to me it's a matter of future proofing for at least a little while. By the time the UTWS5 is back in stock in the US, I should be receiving mine as well. It's still a waiting game either way... sigh.


----------



## mt877

erockg said:


> 1MORE Comfobuds Mini are TINY!  Thankfully, Sound ID is incorporated in the 1More app.  Not like the Grell.  Works well.  ANC is not the greatest but impressive considering the price.  I'll be testing them out for a few days.  If ANC works this well, they might be a good sleeping pair.  Case has Qi charging.  Volume controls, play/pause on the buds. You can't toggle between ANC and Transparency by a touch and hole on the buds.


Can you do an ANC comparison between the Comfobuds Mini and the LinkBuds?... Joking!


----------



## erockg

mt877 said:


> Can you do an ANC comparison between the Comfobuds Mini and the LinkBuds?... Joking!


No!  But I have been pitting them against one another today and might send back the Sonys to save 200 bucks.  Still trying to decide.  I hate to keep too many that lose love and I'm still about a week before the return window closes at Best Buy.  Hmmm.  But, who know, I may just keep both.


----------



## Artmuzz (Mar 16, 2022)

nekonhime said:


> Did you try to hold it for a long time with it plugged in your ear? Mine sometimes act out a bit but still ok.



The right bud stopped working once I updated to v6.1.2. I did nothing wrong when updating so I don’t understand why the right earbud stopped working.

I have tried everything to fix it but to no avaiI though I didn’t try and hold it for a long time while still in my ear. Anyway, I decided to take them back and awaiting a replacement or full refund.


----------



## tinyman392

Artmuzz said:


> The right bud stopped working once I updated to v6.1.2. I did nothing wrong when updating so I don’t understand why the right earbud stopped working.
> 
> I have tried everything to fix it but to no avail. I decided to take them back and awaiting a replacement or full refund.


Email their customer support?


----------



## Artmuzz (Mar 16, 2022)

tinyman392 said:


> Email their customer support?


I emailed customer support and got a reply telling me to put right earbud in charging case and if no light comes on and it doesn’t respond then the earbud is dead and to get them serviced through warranty.

I did that and the green and amber light only came on every 20 seconds with a slight clicking sound. I assumed then that the right bud had died during the update process so I took them back to the store.


----------



## nekonhime

Artmuzz said:


> I emailed customer support and got a reply telling me to put right earbud in charging case and if no light comes on and it doesn’t respond then the earbud is dead and to get them serviced through warranty.
> 
> I did that and the green and amber light only came on every 20 seconds with a slight clicking sound. I assumed then that the right bud had died during the update process so I took them back to the store.


Damn, now I feel like the update is equal to a walking bomb


----------



## tinyman392

Artmuzz said:


> I emailed customer support and got a reply telling me to put right earbud in charging case and if no light comes on and it doesn’t respond then the earbud is dead and to get them serviced through warranty.
> 
> I did that and the green and amber light only came on every 20 seconds with a slight clicking sound. I assumed then that the right bud had died during the update process so I took them back to the store.


Might be useful to ask them what that means.  The device could be trying to do something, but you'd need someone to find out what that particular pattern specifically means.  


nekonhime said:


> Damn, now I feel like the update is equal to a walking bomb


To be honest, most updates are.  With the way some firmware updates are designed, a failure could lead to a bricked device.


----------



## mt877

erockg said:


> No!  But I have been pitting them against one another today and might send back the Sonys to save 200 bucks.  Still trying to decide.  I hate to keep too many that lose love and I'm still about a week before the return window closes at Best Buy.  Hmmm.  But, who know, I may just keep both.


Cool, the final decision you make will be the right one.


----------



## Artmuzz

tinyman392 said:


> Might be useful to ask them what that means.  The device could be trying to do something, but you'd need someone to find out what that particular pattern specifically means.
> 
> To be honest, most updates are.  With the way some firmware updates are designed, a failure could lead to a bricked device.



I emailed them again asking what the green and amber light coming on every 20 seconds with the earbud clicking mean’t but I didn’t get a reply. Strange as B&O are usually very quick at replying and have good customer support.


----------



## Ceeluh7

erockg said:


> Spent most of this week having fun with the SeeAudio Midnight on my Shure TW2 adapters.  Great soundstage.  Pretty balanced and they fit the adapters and my ears very well with the OKCSC 2 Pin adapter.  I had the Thieaudio Legacy 4 on them, (I still have them) but they're much more shouty in comparison with a tighter/narrower soundstage.  The Midnight are much more open, relaxed and easy to listen to.  For $199 I can highly recommend this IEM.  Pleasantly surprised by them.


I am debating getting these guys right now


----------



## Ceeluh7

mt877 said:


> The UTWS3 probably has more than enough power to drive the few IEMs I have as well. The equipment in this field is being developed pretty quickly as manufacturers one up each other. Because of that to me it's a matter of future proofing for at least a little while. By the time the UTWS5 is back in stock in the US, I should be receiving mine as well. It's still a waiting game either way... sigh.


The Utws3 is a fantastic device man and will certainly easily drive almost all iems with the exception of stuff like final audio stuff or planar iems


----------



## mt877

Ceeluh7 said:


> The Utws3 is a fantastic device man and will certainly easily drive almost all iems with the exception of stuff like final audio stuff or planar iems


Yeah, I don't doubt it at all. I think they're good value for the money as well, but not gonna double up since I already got the UTWS5s coming.


----------



## Ceeluh7

mt877 said:


> Yeah, I don't doubt it at all. I think they're good value for the money as well, but not gonna double up since I already got the UTWS5s coming.


OH sorry man, I must've totally glossed over that. Ya for sure the utws5 is absolutely better to me, I use them often and really enjoy them. Awesome man


----------



## mt877

Ceeluh7 said:


> OH sorry man, I must've totally glossed over that. Ya for sure the utws5 is absolutely better to me, I use them often and really enjoy them. Awesome man


Hey, no problem. Can't wait to get em.


----------



## dmphile

Hey @Ceeluh7 look familiar?


----------



## dweaver

Here is my babies


----------



## dweaver

dmphile said:


> Hey @Ceeluh7 look familiar?


Which IEM is that?


----------



## dmphile

dweaver said:


> Which IEM is that?


Campfire Dorado 2020s


----------



## Canabuc

Been away from this thread for a while because I have enjoyed my AZ60 so much with the latest update making them even better.
I live the sound they produce. ANC has been great on my recent travels.
The fit during exercise and stability has been unrivaled.

Multipoint is such a great feature and no earbuds in 2022 at mid range or higher should come out with out this feature.

Only QI charging and a more premium case are keeping these from being the unicorn.
In any case I have zero desire to try the Sony or the new Sennheiser.
It will take Bluetooth LE and an incredible sound to top these.

The face I got them for under 160$ USD is just the cherry on top.


----------



## Caipirina

Late to the party, as usual, but got this 72€ lightning deal on the Edifier Neobuds Pro .. and now I am a bit puzzled regarding firmware update ... 
I am already quite impressed what great sound I get for that price out of the box, but I keep seeing FW update mentioned in YT videos, not really sure if it makes things better (or if 4-7 months ago it was the bringer of LDAC, and mine have that anyways) .. teh FW version it came with is 2.1.6  .. is that the most recent? I kept hearing that to upgrade FW, an app needs to be side loaded, so I guess that's Android only ... the iOS app is pretty crappy, constantly disconnects from the buds ... 

Mixed bag, but sound by itself is very nice .. I found some tips that make them sound even better, but with those the buds won't fit the case anymore ...


----------



## tiagopinto

erockg said:


> Spent most of this week having fun with the SeeAudio Midnight on my Shure TW2 adapters.  Great soundstage.  Pretty balanced and they fit the adapters and my ears very well with the OKCSC 2 Pin adapter.  I had the Thieaudio Legacy 4 on them, (I still have them) but they're much more shouty in comparison with a tighter/narrower soundstage.  The Midnight are much more open, relaxed and easy to listen to.  For $199 I can highly recommend this IEM.  Pleasantly surprised by them.



I’m trying to find these in Europe but to no avail yet. How would you compare these to the Variations sound quality wise?


----------



## Caipirina

erockg said:


> 1MORE Comfobuds Mini are TINY!  Thankfully, Sound ID is incorporated in the 1More app.  Not like the Grell.  Works well.  ANC is not the greatest but impressive considering the price.  I'll be testing them out for a few days.  If ANC works this well, they might be a good sleeping pair.  Case has Qi charging.  Volume controls, play/pause on the buds. You can't toggle between ANC and Transparency by a touch and hole on the buds.


Oh my! 1More just keeps popping out new buds here and there. I JUST got the Pistinbuds Pro like 2 weeks ago? 
Anyways, I feel I need to skip those because .. I have too many 1More already  
One thing I wonder, can you check how well the soothing sounds work? On my pistonbuds those sounds are audibly one 3-5 second loops with a noticeable gap in between .. might be a problem with the iOS app though.
Where did you get them and how much you paid? I see for  99$ on AliExpress (premiere 3/28) and 12000Y on amazon.jp

Maaaaayyyybbbeeeeee when I see them for like half that price.


----------



## jant71 (Mar 17, 2022)

Color me a little surprised...







JBL Live Free 2 is one I was keeping an eye on due to the nice shape but it does not seem half bad overall. Will be firmware up gradable to LE, dual oval(housing and bore)shape design. Peek/PU Titanium coated 11mm driver, higher model noise cancelling with"real time" adjustment from the headphones put into a JBL TWS for the first time. 3 mics and "voice aware" function that allows you to control the mics and select your voice and then control the volume level of the surrounding sounds in relation to it. Multipoint, app that has new stuff like an ear test to optimize the ANC and adjust the ANC levels and ambient levels and that Voice Aware function. Wake to word setting in the app so voice assistant is voice activated. The buds themselves come in at 4.9 grams and perhaps? the first to get 4 hours on a quick charge -> 15 minutes for 4 hours play. Battery is 6 hours with ANC and 22 total. They still don't do aptX codes as per JBL usual so just SBC/AAC till the LE comes along. Black, blue, silver, and rose color options. Pretty solid for $149 and not just a rehash like CLUB Pro and TOUR Pro but added/updated some things. Should be at the beginning of next month if it is not an April fools joke.


----------



## Artmuzz (Mar 17, 2022)

I sent the Beoplay EQ back to the store where I bought them from and they confirmed the right earbud is indeed not working. The manager told me it’s a common problem with updating software on B&O earphones. He ordered me a replacement Beoplay EQ and told me if I have the same problem updating them again then to bring them back for a full refund.


----------



## Ceeluh7

dmphile said:


> Hey @Ceeluh7 look familiar?


Most definitely.. Ha. Very nice


----------



## Ceeluh7

dweaver said:


> Here is my babies


That's a beautiful thing right there


----------



## erockg

New Sennies are up for preorder on Amazon US: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B09T935X3...olid=1SBM040WIZBXS&psc=1&ref_=lv_ov_lig_dp_it


----------



## Luchyres

jant71 said:


> Color me a little surprised...
> 
> JBL Live Free 2 is one I was keeping an eye on due to the nice shape but it does not seem half bad overall. Will be firmware up gradable to LE, dual oval(housing and bore)shape design. Peek/PU Titanium coated 11mm driver, higher model noise cancelling with"real time" adjustment from the headphones put into a JBL TWS for the first time. 3 mics and "voice aware" function that allows you to control the mics and select your voice and then control the volume level of the surrounding sounds in relation to it. Multipoint, app that has new stuff like an ear test to optimize the ANC and adjust the ANC levels and ambient levels and that Voice Aware function. Wake to word setting in the app so voice assistant is voice activated. The buds themselves come in at 4.9 grams and perhaps? the first to get 4 hours on a quick charge -> 15 minutes for 4 hours play. Battery is 6 hours with ANC and 22 total. They still don't do aptX codes as per JBL usual so just SBC/AAC till the LE comes along. Black, blue, silver, and rose color options. Pretty solid for $149 and not just a rehash like CLUB Pro and TOUR Pro but added/updated some things. Should be at the beginning of next month if it is not an April fools joke.



I'm very keen on this one - it looks like it's up for preorder on Amazon.co.jp. I've had the JBL Tour Pro+ and Live Pro +(?) and enjoyed them both - but these look like a better direction shape-wise for ear-fit and comfort. Case looks pretty small... color me interested!


----------



## dmphile

erockg said:


> New Sennies are up for preorder on Amazon US: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B09T935X3...olid=1SBM040WIZBXS&psc=1&ref_=lv_ov_lig_dp_it


Anybody who has put in a pre-order, please report back when it lands on your doorstep! Would love to hear first impressions.


----------



## erockg

dmphile said:


> Anybody who has put in a pre-order, please report back when it lands on your doorstep! Would love to hear first impressions.


I'll preorder on the day it comes out!


----------



## C_Lindbergh

erockg said:


> New Sennies are up for preorder on Amazon US: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B09T935X3...olid=1SBM040WIZBXS&psc=1&ref_=lv_ov_lig_dp_it



I hope Sennheiser starts a sponsored thread about these! I'm sure we all got a few questions once they're launched.


----------



## erockg

C_Lindbergh said:


> I hope Sennheiser starts a sponsored thread about these! I'm sure we all got a few questions once they're launched.


Guess we'll see.  My only gripes with the former were the lack of Qi, fit and EQ.  But I did very much like the CX Plus better than the MTW2.  So if they fixed all that I'll be a happy camper.  I'm on iOS, so the higher res codecs do not affect me.  Fingers crossed they don't suck.


----------



## C_Lindbergh (Mar 17, 2022)

erockg said:


> Guess we'll see.  My only gripes with the former were the lack of Qi, fit and EQ.  But I did very much like the CX Plus better than the MTW2.  So if they fixed all that I'll be a happy camper.  I'm on iOS, so the higher res codecs do not affect me.  Fingers crossed they don't suck.



I'm very interested in how much they've improved the ANC/Transparency mode, and ofc the touch response (hopefully on the same level as my AZ60.!).

Another big question is if the hardware supports the upcoming LE audio, and if it will be upgradeable via software update, rumour has it Android 13 will finally implement LE audio.

I've also heard a rumour on Reddit that they're working on a new app! The current app haven't had a update since 15 October of last year, so there might be some truth to that rumour


----------



## erockg

C_Lindbergh said:


> I'm very interested in how much they've improved the ANC/Transparency mode, and ofc the touch response (hopefully on the same level as my AZ60.!).
> 
> Another big question is if the hardware supports the upcoming LE audio, and if it will be upgradeable via software update, rumour has it Android 13 will finally implement LE audio.


Sounds like you have more needs than me, ie codecs etc.  I agree, better ANC and Transparency would be great.  Truly hope it's a smaller form factor.  I'd guess they cut a few corners if they're offering it for $50 USD less.  But maybe not.  Heck, the new 1More Comfobuds Mini I have here seemed to have crammed in every possible feature for $85.  Maybe Sennheiser will surprise us.  Wishful thinking.  Either way, I have so many options in my collections I'd make due.


----------



## assassin10000

jant71 said:


> Color me a little surprised...
> 
> JBL Live Free 2 is one I was keeping an eye on due to the nice shape but it does not seem half bad overall. Will be firmware up gradable to LE, dual oval(housing and bore)shape design. Peek/PU Titanium coated 11mm driver, higher model noise cancelling with"real time" adjustment from the headphones put into a JBL TWS for the first time. 3 mics and "voice aware" function that allows you to control the mics and select your voice and then control the volume level of the surrounding sounds in relation to it. Multipoint, app that has new stuff like an ear test to optimize the ANC and adjust the ANC levels and ambient levels and that Voice Aware function. Wake to word setting in the app so voice assistant is voice activated. The buds themselves come in at 4.9 grams and perhaps? the first to get 4 hours on a quick charge -> 15 minutes for 4 hours play. Battery is 6 hours with ANC and 22 total. They still don't do aptX codes as per JBL usual so just SBC/AAC till the LE comes along. Black, blue, silver, and rose color options. Pretty solid for $149 and not just a rehash like CLUB Pro and TOUR Pro but added/updated some things. Should be at the beginning of next month if it is not an April fools joke.



Those look pretty sweet. Hope they are as small as they look.


----------



## EMINENT

erockg said:


> New Sennies are up for preorder on Amazon US: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B09T935X3...olid=1SBM040WIZBXS&psc=1&ref_=lv_ov_lig_dp_it


Don't do it everyone! That brick of a case is unacceptable this day and age.
Vote with your wallet or we'll keep getting this trash year after year.


----------



## C_Lindbergh

EMINENT said:


> Don't do it everyone! That brick of a case is unacceptable this day and age.
> Vote with your wallet or we'll keep getting this trash year after year.



You've got a point, that case is ridiculous compared to its competition...I'm also not a fan of the cloth material as well.


----------



## jant71

erockg said:


> New Sennies are up for preorder on Amazon US: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B09T935X3...olid=1SBM040WIZBXS&psc=1&ref_=lv_ov_lig_dp_it


One of the few changes is the fins. Nics pics of them there. Great to see how they look. #sarcasm


----------



## EMINENT

C_Lindbergh said:


> You've got a point, that case is ridiculous compared to its competition...I'm also not a fan of the cloth material as well.


Especially when the Samsung Buds Pro can be as small as they are and the Buds+ getting 11 hours, they are just milking our pockets like Apple and their small iterative improvements every year.


----------



## dj24

Bang & Olufsen Beoplay E8 on Amazon are currently down to $150 once you clip the $100 off coupon.


----------



## erockg

jant71 said:


> One of the few changes is the fins. Nics pics of them there. Great to see how they look. #sarcasm


You know me, I'll try them.  My FiiO and TW2 cases are bigger, so that isn't a big deal.


----------



## LCMusicLover (Mar 17, 2022)

LCMusicLover said:


> @samandhi @Ceeluh7 -- thanks for the input.  I've ordered some of the Spinfits.
> 
> <small edit>
> I must say that I am hearing more bass, just seems like sometimes they're seated 'just right' and more shows up.  So I'm hopeful that the Spinfits will improve the seal enough to satisfy me.
> ...


@samandhi @Ceeluh7

Received XL/L Spinfits today, and I have to say they make a big difference.  I had gotten some L/M Spinfits before, but they didn't improve on the sound I was getting from the stock tips.

But the XL/L tips seem to really help the overall SQ -- no longer feeling a lack of bass, nor a sort of thin/boring sound I had been getting from them. I would actually call the sound warm and rich with the XL/L Spinfits installed.

So thanks very much for the recommendation.

Now, if only I could get them to charge consistently


----------



## samandhi (Mar 17, 2022)

LCMusicLover said:


> @samandhi @Ceeluh7
> 
> Received XL/L Spinfits today, and I have to say they make a big difference.  I had gotten some L/M Spinfits before, but they didn't improve on the sound I was getting from the stock tips.
> 
> ...


It has been my experience that tips that don't work on some IEMs/TWS, work very well with others; I never discount tips just because they don't work well with something else. But also, sometimes if I can't seem to get anything to work well, I will increase size. I have more than one IEM that I was surprised with because of having to use a much larger (than normal) tip. 

Which Spinfits did you end up getting? Glad you were able to find some that work well for you!


----------



## turbobb

Took some cutting of the adapter that @assassin10000 recommended (here for those interested) but was able to get my S12 adapted to the AZ09 Pro. Overall fairly decent but feels like it's missing some of that oomph vs. using wired (even with the high powered mode (3 clicks on left adapter)) invoked. 

Question for those who own both the AZ09 Pro and UTWS5 - is there a noticeable difference in output/SQ between the two?


----------



## chechu21

I'm looking for a tws for about 50 dollars. I don't want to spend more because I'm not going to use it too much. Maybe a couple of times a month. It would be to listen to pop, electronica so I would like a V shape. Is there anything decent for that price range? Thanks!


----------



## Caipirina

Dual Stream … now that could be an interesting new feature. Ad on FB alerted me to this Kickstarter


Now, reading on: 



So, this is NOT multi-point. They try to achieve ‘being connected to 2 devices at the same time, both pumping audio’ 

If they can actually make it work (without glitches), I could imagine some useful applications …

The other thing I want some day: easy sharing of BT signal, let others listen to your music (I understand this kinda works in apple eco system? Had no chance to test yet. )


----------



## Ceeluh7

samandhi said:


> It has been my experience that tips that don't work on some IEMs/TWS, work very well with others; I never discount tips just because they don't work well with something else. But also, sometimes if I can't seem to get anything to work well, I will increase size. I have more than one IEM that I was surprised with because of having to use a much larger (than normal) tip.
> 
> Which Spinfits did you end up getting? Glad you were able to find some that work well for you!


Agreed. I have never thrown a tip away. Never know when they will be the exact pair you need.


----------



## samandhi

Ceeluh7 said:


> Agreed. I have never thrown a tip away. Never know when they will be the exact pair you need.


At this point I have mixed and matched so much, I have no idea what tips belong with what. 



Spoiler: Spare tips



Not sure where box two got to, but here is some.


----------



## scubaphish

Am I crazy to think about trading  my Devialet Gemini for a set of B&O EQ?  Is it a lateral move or are the EQ that much better?


----------



## erockg

scubaphish said:


> Am I crazy to think about trading  my Devialet Gemini for a set of B&O EQ?  Is it a lateral move or are the EQ that much better?


I had them both and have reconsidered getting the EQ again because if that update.  The Gemini are louder and soundstage more open, but the EQ have nice punch and I’ve always liked B&Os tuning.  The case is smaller and fit tighter with the right tips.  The EQ feel much more premium.  If you can get them for less than retail, go for it.  I’ve been holding off because I can’t find a good deal yet.  In the meantime, I got the B&W PI7 again.  Sigh…


----------



## scubaphish

erockg said:


> I had them both and have reconsidered getting the EQ again because if that update.  The Gemini are louder and soundstage more open, but the EQ have nice punch and I’ve always liked B&Os tuning.  The case is smaller and fit tighter with the right tips.  The EQ feel much more premium.  If you can get them for less than retail, go for it.  I’ve been holding off because I can’t find a good deal yet.  In the meantime, I got the B&W PI7 again.  Sigh…


Thanks….and you DID?  Are they better this time around?


----------



## erockg

scubaphish said:


> Thanks….and you DID?  Are they better this time around?


Been using them at my desk only so no issues.  They sound exceptional.  The BA and extra driver really makes a difference.  After using my IEMs for months now, I can hear the difference for sure.  Very expensive (overpriced) but I’m really enjoying the sound.  Last time I had them, I had dropouts.  Not  this time.  Range isn’t great, but again, at my desk, perfect.  No multipoint but you can force connect between gear.


----------



## Ceeluh7

turbobb said:


> Took some cutting of the adapter that @assassin10000 recommended (here for those interested) but was able to get my S12 adapted to the AZ09 Pro. Overall fairly decent but feels like it's missing some of that oomph vs. using wired (even with the high powered mode (3 clicks on left adapter)) invoked.
> 
> Question for those who own both the AZ09 Pro and UTWS5 - is there a noticeable difference in output/SQ between the two?


Ya man... A planar on the az09 isn't gonna cut it unfortunately. What is fortunate is that you have an awesome set of iems... I'm jealous man


----------



## Ceeluh7

samandhi said:


> At this point I have mixed and matched so much, I have no idea what tips belong with what.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


LOL... Dude... I have too many as well and a case which looks strikingly similar to yours... Lol


----------



## Artmuzz

I just picked up my replacement Beoplay EQ earbuds but I’m terrified to update them to v6.1.2 even though the shop manager told me if I get anymore problems I can get a full refund.


----------



## Tenlow

Artmuzz said:


> I just picked up my replacement Beoplay EQ earbuds but I’m terrified to update them to v6.1.2 even though the shop manager told me if I get anymore problems I can get a full refund.


It's all about living on the edge. Go for it. It might be worth it. Or is it...


----------



## Tenlow (Mar 18, 2022)

Meanwhile I bought a pair of red V-Moda Hexamove Lite buds. Yeah...I know. Why? Don't know honestly. They were just 40€ on Amazon, though. When you think about that V-Moda wants something like 129 for them...how bad can they be? Probably bad. But for the price....😂


----------



## erockg

Tenlow said:


> Meanwhile I bought a pair of red V-Moda Hexamove Lite buds. Yeah...I know. Why? Don't know honestly. They were just 40€ on Amazon, though. When you think about that V-Moda wants something like 129 for them...how bad can they be? Probably bad. But for the price....😂


I actually really liked the sound on the Hexamove pro.  Sub bass has some great punch.  That said, they need to add better controls and the case… whew… It’s HUGE.  Curious if they added more features when you get yours.


----------



## Tenlow

erockg said:


> I actually really liked the sound on the Hexamove pro.  Sub bass has some great punch.  That said, they need to add better controls and the case… whew… It’s HUGE.  Curious if they added more features when you get yours.


Well, it's the lite version. Do they even have features? 😂 Let's see. Pretty intrigued nonetheless for the price.


----------



## jant71

EMINENT said:


> Don't do it everyone! That brick of a case is unacceptable this day and age.
> Vote with your wallet or we'll keep getting this trash year after year.





C_Lindbergh said:


> You've got a point, that case is ridiculous compared to its competition...I'm also not a fan of the cloth material as well.


Not compared to the Vmoda case!


----------



## Tenlow

jant71 said:


> Not compared to the Vmoda case!


😂 At least, I've got the biggest, then!


----------



## Sam L

looking for advice.... I just surrendered my airpod pro's to my wife. What should I get as a replacement? (but not another APP because I need an excuse to get the new one, whenever if finally releases.). az60?


----------



## Ceeluh7

Sam L said:


> looking for advice.... I just surrendered my airpod pro's to my wife. What should I get as a replacement? (but not another APP because I need an excuse to get the new one, whenever if finally releases.). az60?


AZ60 is a great set man for sure. You may just want to get those and move on from there if they aren't to your liking. Most people live the AZ60 though


----------



## BooleanBones (Mar 18, 2022)

Tenlow said:


> It's all about living on the edge. Go for it. It might be worth it. Or is it...


+2  plus, your local shop threw out the refund offer, which I am guessing has a limited window.


----------



## BooleanBones

Sam L said:


> looking for advice.... I just surrendered my airpod pro's to my wife. What should I get as a replacement? (but not another APP because I need an excuse to get the new one, whenever if finally releases.). az60?


I like my AZ60s. Something to keep in mind is that these fit a little deeper in the ear than some, so if that is something that is uncomfortable for you, you may not like them. I only need one more set of Technics (wired iems) to complete the lineup here


----------



## nekonhime

Sam L said:


> looking for advice.... I just surrendered my airpod pro's to my wife. What should I get as a replacement? (but not another APP because I need an excuse to get the new one, whenever if finally releases.). az60?


Az60, or b&o EQ if you like fancy things


----------



## LCMusicLover

samandhi said:


> It has been my experience that tips that don't work on some IEMs/TWS, work very well with others; I never discount tips just because they don't work well with something else. But also, sometimes if I can't seem to get anything to work well, I will increase size. I have more than one IEM that I was surprised with because of having to use a much larger (than normal) tip.
> 
> Which Spinfits did you end up getting? Glad you were able to find some that work well for you!



New SpinFit CP360


----------



## pitch_black

Artmuzz said:


> I’m not impressed with the Beoplay EQ. Since updating them the right earbud has stopped working which is unacceptable. I have updated lots of devices and it’s never broke the device. I had to take them back to the shop for a refund. I was very upset taking them back because the sound quality was sublime in the Beoplay EQ. I really regret updating to v6.1.2 but I needed the track skip function but instead all the update did was break the ear buds.


I’m so impressed with the Beoplay EQ - I did buy another one


----------



## jant71

The new EarFun...


----------



## Artmuzz

pitch_black said:


> I’m so impressed with the Beoplay EQ - I did buy another one



I think you are misunderstanding what I said about the Beoplay EQ. When I said I’m not impressed I mean’t I’m not impressed with the setup of updating. However, I’m really impressed with the sound quality which is a reason I asked for a replacement instead of a refund.

Anyway, I have successfully updated this time and enjoying the sublime sound quality.


----------



## jant71 (Mar 18, 2022)

I was interested in the Cleer Arc they were going to make but it never showed...




Open design beamform before the Linkbuds.  Actually the Cleer Arc has made an appearance now in a new form...





https://cleeraudio.com/coming-soon/arc/
They do use aptX and get 7 hours of battery life but they are not tiny and 14.5 grams per side. Guess they gave up on the beamform speaker tech as these use 16.2mm graphene dynamic drivers. They do have beamform mics for the calls. Should be a better version of the BOSE Open buds as the case here charges and they have full control on the buds.
https://www.qucox.com/cleer-arc-headphones-review/


----------



## dweaver

First serious frustration with the UTWS5 they were in the case but started to steal the BT from the car while I was driving
 Ended up having to take them out of the case and turn them off from the app so I could use hands free while driving.

Wonder if the battery in the case ran out of juice, would that cause the IEMs to come alive like that while in the case?

Maddening when it happened...


----------



## dmphile

dweaver said:


> First serious frustration with the UTWS5 they were in the case but started to steal the BT from the car while I was driving
> Ended up having to take them out of the case and turn them off from the app so I could use hands free while driving.
> 
> Wonder if the battery in the case ran out of juice, would that cause the IEMs to come alive like that while in the case?
> ...


Yup, it's happened to me a few times. Not sure if FiiO will fix it in the next firmware update but they are aware of this issue.


----------



## dweaver

The good news is taking them out of the case and then turning them works. But that is a pain in the ***


----------



## Ceeluh7

dweaver said:


> First serious frustration with the UTWS5 they were in the case but started to steal the BT from the car while I was driving
> Ended up having to take them out of the case and turn them off from the app so I could use hands free while driving.
> 
> Wonder if the battery in the case ran out of juice, would that cause the IEMs to come alive like that while in the case?
> ...


Charge the case.


----------



## Ceeluh7

dweaver said:


> The good news is taking them out of the case and then turning them works. But that is a pain in the ***


That happened once to me. I looked somewhere and they said to just make sure the case is charged or the utws5 won't turn off when placed in the case. Once I did that I realized that I always have to make sure the case has a charge... Hasn't happened since


----------



## Sp12er3

senorbroom said:


> What are people's thoughts on the Redmi Buds 3 Pro (the global version of the Airdots 3 Pro): https://www.mi.com/global/redmi-buds-3-pro/overview The release price is only $40USD so they're incredibly cheap. Should I just bite the bullet and take a stab?
> 
> Pros:
> 
> ...



Been  nearly a year, but asking this again, 
Kinda old by now but as a Klee version was just announced just the other day and I'm in need of a TWS replacement, with the dying battery of my SP900, and, especially as it's just so cute I just gotta try .

Not really expecting it to sound as good as my single BA WF-SP900, but just the box and case is enough reason for me, if it's daily able and I can extend the life of my Sony more, the better.


----------



## samandhi

dweaver said:


> First serious frustration with the UTWS5 they were in the case but started to steal the BT from the car while I was driving
> Ended up having to take them out of the case and turn them off from the app so I could use hands free while driving.
> 
> Wonder if the battery in the case ran out of juice, would that cause the IEMs to come alive like that while in the case?
> ...


It has been my experience that all of my TWS do this when the battery in the case is low/empty. I am not sure there is a way around it with the way things are currently done where the earphones relate to the case itself.


----------



## Artmuzz (Mar 19, 2022)

I’m really enjoying the sound quality on the Beoplay EQ but there is a problem. On some tracks I listen to there are pops and clicks with the sound settings EQ set to Energetic on the app. This only happens on some tracks and I have to adjust the EQ on to the centre on the EQ sound settings circle to get rid of the pops and clicks. However, other tracks play fine on the Energetic sound setting. Do other members who have the Beoplay EQ have the same problems? Could this be a problem with the Bluetooth codec on iPhones?


----------



## Tommy C

Artmuzz said:


> I’m really enjoying the sound quality on the Beoplay EQ but there is a problem. On some tracks I listen to there are pops and clicks with the sound settings EQ set to Energetic on the app. This only happens on some tracks and I have to adjust the EQ on to the centre on the EQ sound settings circle to get rid of the pops and clicks. However, other tracks play fine on the Energetic sound setting. Do other members who have the Beoplay EQ have the same problems? Could this be a problem with the Bluetooth codec on iPhones?


@erockg and @BooleanBones have had a similar issue IIRC


----------



## Artmuzz

Tommy C said:


> @erockg and @BooleanBones have had a similar issue IIRC



What was the outcome of the issue?

The pops and clicks are still heard on some tracks even when I adjust the sound setting in the app. I’ve even tried to switch between ANC, transparency and normal and the clicks and pops still remain. This is annoying.


----------



## Tommy C

Artmuzz said:


> What was the outcome of the issue?
> 
> The pops and clicks are still heard on some tracks even when I adjust the sound setting in the app. I’ve even tried to switch between ANC, transparency and normal and the clicks and pops still remain. This is annoying.


Outcome? It was never resolved and I think they returned them. I think @erockg was able to get a hold on another pair and it was still giving him issues, but I’ll let them chime in.


----------



## BooleanBones

Tommy C said:


> Outcome? It was never resolved and I think they returned them. I think @erockg was able to get a hold on another pair and it was still giving him issues, but I’ll let them chime in.


Yep, After the second go round, I ended up just getting something different. What you mention was more apparent for me on very specific tracks and much more noticeable with ANC on. I actually hear a similar much less noticeable sounds on other ANC TWS listening to the same tracks. B & O never really could conclude what it was when I talked with them numerous times other than what I mentioned above being a root cause. I still love them, just not as much as my Fokus Pros, so never repurchased.


----------



## Artmuzz

BooleanBones said:


> Yep, After the second go round, I ended up just getting something different. What you mention was more apparent for me on very specific tracks and much more noticeable with ANC on. I actually hear a similar much less noticeable sounds on other ANC TWS listening to the same tracks. B & O never really could conclude what it was when I talked with them numerous times other than what I mentioned above being a root cause. I still love them, just not as much as my Fokus Pros, so never repurchased.



Yeah it was me who mentioned the pops and clicks not the person you quoted.

Were the Beoplay EQ connected to iPhone or Android when you had the same problems as me? It’s such a shame that this is happening as they are great sounding earbuds but the pop and clicking on certain tracks is annoying and it’s going to make it difficult to get a refund as the shop does a warranty test to see if the issue is legit and this might be a hard one to prove as it only happens on certain tracks.


----------



## dj24

chechu21 said:


> I'm looking for a tws for about 50 dollars. I don't want to spend more because I'm not going to use it too much. Maybe a couple of times a month. It would be to listen to pop, electronica so I would like a V shape. Is there anything decent for that price range? Thanks!


https://www.target.com/p/jabra-elit...d/-/A-79690955?preselect=79690956#lnk=sametab


----------



## BooleanBones

Artmuzz said:


> Yeah it was me who mentioned the pops and clicks not the person you quoted.
> 
> Were the Beoplay EQ connected to iPhone or Android when you had the same problems as me? It’s such a shame that this is happening as they are great sounding earbuds but the pop and clicking on certain tracks is annoying and it’s going to make it difficult to get a refund as the shop does a warranty test to see if the issue is legit and this might be a hard one to prove as it only happens on certain tracks.


iPhone 12 Pro. It’s easy to reproduce, but they may just blame it on the recording. Wish you luck. Lisa Stansfield - All around the world is awful with the noise you describe.


----------



## nekonhime

https://www.kickstarter.com/project...jbU05TVRZME56Y3pOREF4TlRBeE55NXplWFozSkNRaw== 
This seem fun with ANC, low latency and APTX Adaptive


----------



## Sam L

Sam L said:


> looking for advice.... I just surrendered my airpod pro's to my wife. What should I get as a replacement? (but not another APP because I need an excuse to get the new one, whenever if finally releases.). az60?


K. Got the az60. Excellent sound and a significant improvement over the APP (which I knew would be the case.) now I have to tip roll. One thing I love about the APP is the perfect out of the box comfort. 

Gonna try to find a good fit before flight takes off. Need to go through this. Lol


----------



## samandhi

Sam L said:


> K. Got the az60. Excellent sound and a significant improvement over the APP (which I knew would be the case.) now I have to tip roll. One thing I love about the APP is the perfect out of the box comfort.
> 
> Gonna try to find a good fit before flight takes off. Need to go through this. Lol


I feel ya!


----------



## Caipirina

nekonhime said:


> https://www.kickstarter.com/project...jbU05TVRZME56Y3pOREF4TlRBeE55NXplWFozSkNRaw==
> This seem fun with ANC, low latency and APTX Adaptive


I posted about them a bit further up ... I think the BIG new feature is 'Dual Stream' .. being connected to 2 devices at the same time .. like a gaming console but also phone for voice chat ...


----------



## nekonhime

Caipirina said:


> I posted about them a bit further up ... I think the BIG new feature is 'Dual Stream' .. being connected to 2 devices at the same time .. like a gaming console but also phone for voice chat ...


It just popped up on my facebook, and the dual stream gimmick is just a copy of multi-points connection


----------



## samandhi

nekonhime said:


> It just popped up on my facebook, and the dual stream gimmick is just a copy of multi-points connection


Except that what they are advertising is that one driver can be connected to one source, while the other a different source. A tad different than multipoint. Though I do think I would prefer just regular multipoint IMO.


----------



## nekonhime

samandhi said:


> Except that what they are advertising is that one driver can be connected to one source, while the other a different source. A tad different than multipoint. Though I do think I would prefer just regular multipoint IMO.


Me too, but I prefer to be focus on one thing rather than multi points connection


----------



## nekonhime

samandhi said:


> Except that what they are advertising is that one driver can be connected to one source, while the other a different source. A tad different than multipoint. Though I do think I would prefer just regular multipoint IMO.


Btw, have you ever try any psb brand headphone?


----------



## dweaver

PSB is decent brand, they do speakers mainly and are related to NAD.


----------



## samandhi

nekonhime said:


> Btw, have you ever try any psb brand headphone?


I have not. Good, bad, indifferent?


----------



## nekonhime

samandhi said:


> I have not. Good, bad, indifferent?


Nah, I just got blow away by the psb m4u 8 mkii sound so I just want to have other people impression about the brand and their headphones.


----------



## nekonhime

dweaver said:


> PSB is decent brand, they do speakers mainly and are related to NAD.


I saw the brand name in reddit's the headphones that close to the harman curve so I gave them a try.


----------



## Artmuzz (Mar 20, 2022)

BooleanBones said:


> iPhone 12 Pro. It’s easy to reproduce, but they may just blame it on the recording. Wish you luck. Lisa Stansfield - All around the world is awful with the noise you describe.



I am using an iPhone 12 Pro too except mine is the iPhone 12 Pro Max. I wonder if it’s to do with the sound frequency of instruments like percussion and vocals which are causing the pops and clicks as it only happens on certain songs. On the other hand the problem could be with the iPhone with the aac codec. I am going to pair the my Beoplay EQ to my LG V30 and see if the problem still happens on that phone and report back.


----------



## Artmuzz

I removed my Beoplay EQ earbuds from the iPhoje B&O app and disconnected from a my iPhone. I then installed the B&O app on my LG V30 and paired the Beoplay EQ to my LG V30 and played some music using the aptx codec and played some music but I’m afraid I’m still getting the same occasional pops and clicks on the affected songs. I think this could something to do with the sound frequency of those songs which the Beoplay EQ cannot handle.

On a brighter note I just purchased Galaxy Bud Pro earbuds and the sound quality from them are incredible and the fit is great too.


----------



## VICosPhi

MTW3 in all black look more reserved to me and not as premium as MTW2 with brushed aluminium touchpads in looks. Hopefully the sound quality makes up for it.


----------



## BooleanBones

Artmuzz said:


> I am using an iPhone 12 Pro too except mine is the iPhone 12 Pro Max. I wonder if it’s to do with the sound frequency of instruments like percussion and vocals which are causing the pops and clicks as it only happens on certain songs. On the other hand the problem could be with the iPhone with the aac codec. I am going to pair the my Beoplay EQ to my LG V30 and see if the problem still happens on that phone and report back.


I think that is a good theory. I was not able to download their software to my Walkman at the time, so could not really do a good test with anything else.


----------



## samandhi

Artmuzz said:


> I removed my Beoplay EQ earbuds from the iPhoje B&O app and disconnected from a my iPhone. I then installed the B&O app on my LG V30 and paired the Beoplay EQ to my LG V30 and played some music using the aptx codec and played some music but I’m afraid I’m still getting the same occasional pops and clicks on the affected songs. I think this could something to do with the sound frequency of those songs which the Beoplay EQ cannot handle.
> 
> On a brighter note I just purchased Galaxy Bud Pro earbuds and the sound quality from them are incredible and the fit is great too.





BooleanBones said:


> I think that is a good theory. I was not able to download their software to my Walkman at the time, so could not really do a good test with anything else.


From what I am reading, my first guess would be that there is a known (to the manufacturer) driver issue, and can't be fixed with software or FW changes. It wouldn't surprise me to know that they know about it and just won't admit it because it would sabotage their own sales permanently for these. Not saying that IS what is happening, but I have seen this sort of thing happen even with the biggest named things. "Better to ask forgiveness, than permission" comes to mind. 

I can't think that they don't know what is going on with them. Either way I would not be interested in said product. Either they have an issue they can't figure out; in which case they are too incompetent to deserve my money, or they know about it and are keeping it hush-hush without bothering to try and fix it (not cost effective); in which they are too dishonest to deserve my money. 

Of course this is all just conjecture on my part.


----------



## BooleanBones (Mar 20, 2022)

samandhi said:


> From what I am reading, my first guess would be that there is a known (to the manufacturer) driver issue, and can't be fixed with software or FW changes. It wouldn't surprise me to know that they know about it and just won't admit it because it would sabotage their own sales permanently for these. Not saying that IS what is happening, but I have seen this sort of thing happen even with the biggest named things. "Better to ask forgiveness, than permission" comes to mind.
> 
> I can't think that they don't know what is going on with them. Either way I would not be interested in said product. Either they have an issue they can't figure out; in which case they are too incompetent to deserve my money, or they know about it and are keeping it hush-hush without bothering to try and fix it (not cost effective); in which they are too dishonest to deserve my money.
> 
> Of course this is all just conjecture on my part.


Yep. And at the time @erockg and I concluded, once you hear it you can’t stop hearing it. As much as loved everything else about them, the volume level and the click drove me on to other TWS.


----------



## Artmuzz

samandhi said:


> From what I am reading, my first guess would be that there is a known (to the manufacturer) driver issue, and can't be fixed with software or FW changes. It wouldn't surprise me to know that they know about it and just won't admit it because it would sabotage their own sales permanently for these. Not saying that IS what is happening, but I have seen this sort of thing happen even with the biggest named things. "Better to ask forgiveness, than permission" comes to mind.
> 
> I can't think that they don't know what is going on with them. Either way I would not be interested in said product. Either they have an issue they can't figure out; in which case they are too incompetent to deserve my money, or they know about it and are keeping it hush-hush without bothering to try and fix it (not cost effective); in which they are too dishonest to deserve my money.
> 
> Of course this is all just conjecture on my part.



This is really unfortunate and quite sly from B&O. I would take them back and ask for a refund but unfortunately the shop I bought them from only refund if they confirm the problem which is going to be hard to confirm since it only happens on some random songs. 

I now regret ordering a replacement instead of getting a full refund when the right earbud stopped working. Oh well


----------



## erockg

BooleanBones said:


> Yep. And at the time @erockg and I concluded, once you hear it you can’t stop hearing it. As much as loved everything else about them, the volume level and the click drove me on to other TWS.


You can chastise me all you want, call me crazy too, but I am awaiting another set because I loved them and want to try out the multi-airing etc.  That said, yes!  That pop was annoying, but I will say, some of the more recent versions I got didn't have this issue.  I could have missed it though on some tracks.  Drove me nuts.  My guess it was the ANC mic picking up stuff because it didn't happen as much, if at all with the ANC off.  I'll test on the new pair I receive and report back.


----------



## BooleanBones

Artmuzz said:


> This is really unfortunate and quite sly from B&O. I would take them back and ask for a refund but unfortunately the shop I bought them from only refund if they confirm the problem which is going to be hard to confirm since it only happens on some random songs.
> 
> I now regret ordering a replacement instead of getting a full refund when the right earbud stopped working. Oh well


Take them in and let them listen to the first 45 seconds of that Lisa Stansfield song I mentioned previously. It is very distinguishable in that song. I do look forward to version 2 of these as they sound beautiful outside of that annoyance, which generally did not happen for me, just occasionally.


----------



## BooleanBones

erockg said:


> You can chastise me all you want, call me crazy too, but I am awaiting another set because I loved them and want to try out the multi-airing etc.  T


I would call it more a glutton for punishment  I am in the very same boat with these and run the other direction when I see them in search results, otherwise I would buy another pair.


----------



## erockg

BooleanBones said:


> I would call it more a glutton for punishment  I am in the very same boat with these and run the other direction when I see them in search results, otherwise I would buy another pair.


You know me well.  Ugh.


----------



## erockg

BooleanBones said:


> I would call it more a glutton for punishment  I am in the very same boat with these and run the other direction when I see them in search results, otherwise I would buy another pair.


Got them today and and did the firmware update.  Multipair is working flawlessly.  Haven't notices pops yet, but I'll put them through a workout soon.  I read somewhere on Reddit that they'll be adding auto-pause.  Wonder if that is real or just rumor.  If it's real, then these have then come a very long way with updates!


----------



## Ceeluh7

Sam L said:


> K. Got the az60. Excellent sound and a significant improvement over the APP (which I knew would be the case.) now I have to tip roll. One thing I love about the APP is the perfect out of the box comfort.
> 
> Gonna try to find a good fit before flight takes off. Need to go through this. Lol


Haha... I have a very similar assortment.


----------



## Tenlow

erockg said:


> Got them today and and did the firmware update.  Multipair is working flawlessly.  Haven't notices pops yet, but I'll put them through a workout soon.  I read somewhere on Reddit that they'll be adding auto-pause.  Wonder if that is real or just rumor.  If it's real, then these have then come a very long way with updates!


True. However, track skipping and even auto pause are basic features in this price range that they shouldn't be applauded for adding so late when they should have been shipped with them right from the start.

Multipoint was a very nice addition, though.


----------



## erockg

Tenlow said:


> True. However, track skipping and even auto pause are basic features in this price range that they shouldn't be applauded for adding so late when they should have been shipped with them right from the start.
> 
> Multipoint was a very nice addition, though.


Those features I rarely use, so it never bothered me.


----------



## Tenlow

erockg said:


> Those features I rarely use, so it never bothered me.


Same for me. Still, feature wise the EQs were lacking for the price and to a certain degree they still do. Love their sound, build quality and case, though


----------



## Sam L

Ceeluh7 said:


> Haha... I have a very similar assortment.


lol... then my wallet commiserates with yours. No one ever tells you that tips end up costing quite a bit. I went from various azla's to spinfits to final and now just started exploring spiral dots.   the journey never ends!


----------



## erockg

Tenlow said:


> Same for me. Still, feature wise the EQs were lacking for the price and to a certain degree they still do. Love their sound, build quality and case, though


Sadly this is Bang & Olufsen. Then they wind up knocking 100 bucks off after we all spent way too much money on their products.  Sigh…


----------



## nekonhime

erockg said:


> Sadly this is Bang & Olufsen. Then they wind up knocking 100 bucks off after we all spent way too much money on their products.  Sigh…


They have the eq on sale?


----------



## Artmuzz (Mar 21, 2022)

BooleanBones said:


> Take them in and let them listen to the first 45 seconds of that Lisa Stansfield song I mentioned previously. It is very distinguishable in that song. I do look forward to version 2 of these as they sound beautiful outside of that annoyance, which generally did not happen for me, just occasionally.



I played Lisa Stansfield’s All Around the World and I can report that I’m not getting any pops or clicks on that song on my Beoplay EQ the inky time I near the pop is at around 11 seconds in when she talks “l’ll never give up looking for my baby” which is strange because you are reporting that you are getting pops through out the song especially the first 45 seconds. However, I am getting pops on other certain songs but not all.

The format I’m listening to of All Around the World is mp3 320kbps with ANC on. What format are you using?


----------



## nekonhime

Artmuzz said:


> I played Lisa Stansfield’s All Around the World and I can report that I’m not getting any pops or clicks on that song on my Beoplay EQ which is strange because you are reporting that you are getting pops on the song. However, I am getting pops on other certain songs but not all.
> 
> The format I’m listening to of All Around the World is mp3 320kbps. What format are you using?


Same here, I used the youtube music app and didn't hear any pop for that song.


----------



## Artmuzz (Mar 21, 2022)

nekonhime said:


> Same here, I used the youtube music app and didn't hear any pop for that song.



I listened to the song again carefully and I can report there is a pop and click sound just around 11 seconds in the song when she talks “I’ll never give up looking for my baby” but there are no other pops and clicks.


----------



## Ceeluh7

Sam L said:


> lol... then my wallet commiserates with yours. No one ever tells you that tips end up costing quite a bit. I went from various azla's to spinfits to final and now just started exploring spiral dots.   the journey never ends!


You are right. It is a constant searching in this hobby. Hey, we could be doing a whole lot worse things with our time.. Lol. Also, yes my wallet Def feels it... Tips can be very expensive but can really do wonders, it pays to have a big arsenal of them at your disposal. Nice collection man


----------



## erockg

nekonhime said:


> They have the eq on sale?


Not for 100 off.  But sometimes Amazon knocks $50 off.  Prices change constantly on their site.


----------



## nekonhime

Artmuzz said:


> I listened to the song again carefully and I can report there is a pop and click sound just around 11 seconds in the song when she talks “I’ll never give up looking for my baby” but there are no other pops and clicks.


Weird, I couldn't hear any pop as I set my volume to maximum


----------



## BooleanBones

It may or may not help you guys further diagnose the EQs, but on page 2463 is where our original discussion about this took place.


----------



## Artmuzz

nekonhime said:


> Weird, I couldn't hear any pop as I set my volume to maximum



If you set the sound setting to Energetic then the pops and clicks are noticeable.


----------



## nekonhime

Artmuzz said:


> If you set the sound setting to Energetic then the pops and clicks are noticeable.


Still almost the same with an almost unnoticeable click in the left ear


----------



## LCMusicLover (Mar 21, 2022)

LCMusicLover said:


> I rolled a different pair of die, ordered open-box UTWS3 from Audio46...


Came in this AM -- listening now  FiiO M15 ==> UTWS3 ==> iBasso IT07.

Sounds very good with plenty of power -- can officially play _TOO LOUD_.  Took a while to find the multi-function button up behind my ear.  Turns out if you press the device without actually touching the button, very little happens 

Anyway, tonight I'll try them with the Volts.

Melomanias are headed back.  (with the open-box deal on the UTWS3s, they were actually $18 less than the CAs)

<edit> Case closes fully while holding UTWS3 with IT07s connected and rotated on the mmcx connectors.  Probably won't work with Volts which are 2-pin and so won't rotate to fit, plus they're a fair amount bigger than IT07s. </edit>


----------



## samandhi

LCMusicLover said:


> Came in this AM -- listening now  FiiO M15 ==> UTWS3 ==> iBasso IT07.
> 
> Sounds very good with plenty of power -- can officially play _TOO LOUD_. Took a while to find the multi-function button up behind my ear. Turns out if you press the device without actually touching the button, very little happens
> 
> ...


Good to know, as that will be one of the pairs that I would make use of the UTWSx with.


----------



## alleroy

erockg said:


> But maybe not.  Heck, the new 1More Comfobuds Mini I have here seemed to have crammed in every possible feature for $85.



I am interested in these ones, but I have read mixed reviews about sound quality. What is your experience?


----------



## scubaphish

erockg said:


> Not for 100 off.  But sometimes Amazon knocks $50 off.  Prices change constantly on their site.


Well I took the plunge and ordered a used set of EQs from amazon. Was more than $100 off. I know used is not everyone’s cup of tea, but price was so cheap relative to retail I couldn’t resist. I really want to try these, especially with the recent firmware update. Worst case, they have a scratch on the case…or they don’t work at all and I get a nice, new RMA set. Should have them tomorrow and will report back as they seem to have a recent stock of used for those that might be interested.


----------



## jant71

Gotta love the translations. Always good for a laugh or two...




Maybe it is good they have ANC. you know, with all dogs.


----------



## erockg

scubaphish said:


> Well I took the plunge and ordered a used set of EQs from amazon. Was more than $100 off. I know used is not everyone’s cup of tea, but price was so cheap relative to retail I couldn’t resist. I really want to try these, especially with the recent firmware update. Worst case, they have a scratch on the case…or they don’t work at all and I get a nice, new RMA set. Should have them tomorrow and will report back as they seem to have a recent stock of used for those that might be interested.


I'm having zero issues with my new pair and loving multipairing.  Works great.  I put some large Spinfits on them and so far so good.


----------



## erockg

alleroy said:


> I am interested in these ones, but I have read mixed reviews about sound quality. What is your experience?


I'd say a week later they're "Okay."  They don't really fit me well and with my giant tips collection, I can't seem to find the right one.  The tips that come with them aren't great.  They do sound good for the size.  SoundID in my experience helps.  I'd say there are better options out there for less cost.  But those would be bigger.


----------



## tonyfiore75 (Mar 22, 2022)

scubaphish said:


> Well I took the plunge and ordered a used set of EQs from amazon. Was more than $100 off. I know used is not everyone’s cup of tea, but price was so cheap relative to retail I couldn’t resist. I really want to try these, especially with the recent firmware update. Worst case, they have a scratch on the case…or they don’t work at all and I get a nice, new RMA set. Should have them tomorrow and will report back as they seem to have a recent stock of used for those that might be interested.


Not that it truly matters, since everyone's experiences are different, but I loved the EQs. The sound was phenomenal. I ultimately wound up sending them back because I ride a bus to work every morning and with every bounce and bump, I heard this weird, brief, high pitched sound. I think it has to do more with how Noise Cancelling works than with this particular model; but it was unbearable. Not being on the bus, though, was tremendous, haha. I think it has to do with how sensitive the earphones are. I now have the AZ60s and every once in a while I notice something similar on the bus but it's not nearly as prominent. Kinda sucks either way, though.


----------



## jant71

tonyfiore75 said:


> Not that it truly matters, since everyone's experiences are different, but I loved the EQs. The sound was phenomenal. I ultimately wound up sending them back because I ride a bus to work every morning and with every bounce and bump, I heard this weird, brief, high pitched sound. I think it has to do more with how Noice Cancelling works than with this particular model; but it was unbearable. Not being on the bus, though, was tremendous, haha. I think it has to do with how sensitive the earphones are. I now have the AZ60s and every once in a while I notice something similar on the bus but it's not nearly as prominent. Kinda sucks either way, though.


Maybe the bus needs a firmware update??


----------



## tonyfiore75

jant71 said:


> Maybe the bus needs a firmware update??


Well played, sir  - haha


----------



## nekonhime

jant71 said:


> Maybe the bus needs a firmware update??


After reading about people earbuds gone after the firmware, I am not very sure about that lol.


----------



## alleroy

erockg said:


> I'd say a week later they're "Okay."  They don't really fit me well and with my giant tips collection, I can't seem to find the right one.  The tips that come with them aren't great.  They do sound good for the size.  SoundID in my experience helps.  I'd say there are better options out there for less cost.  But those would be bigger.


Considering the premises, what do you think about their ANC?


----------



## tonyfiore75

tonyfiore75 said:


> Not that it truly matters, since everyone's experiences are different, but I loved the EQs. The sound was phenomenal. I ultimately wound up sending them back because I ride a bus to work every morning and with every bounce and bump, I heard this weird, brief, high pitched sound. I think it has to do more with how Noise Cancelling works than with this particular model; but it was unbearable. Not being on the bus, though, was tremendous, haha. I think it has to do with how sensitive the earphones are. I now have the AZ60s and every once in a while I notice something similar on the bus but it's not nearly as prominent. Kinda sucks either way, though.


Just to follow up on this, as far as I know, NC tech tries to match outside sounds in order to cancel them out. Apparently there are certain frequencies that they can't match. And I'm assuming some companies do it better than others which is why some sets of earphones don't really sound much different when you switch NC on yet with others there is a noticeable difference. I was pretty bummed out when the B&O EQs caused this high-pitched sound every time I hit a bump on my bus. It's not just the noise the bump makes but I think it's also the vibration itself. 

Having said all that, my understanding of this technlogy is limited. If anyone has any advice or can tell me about true wireless nc earphones that DON'T do this... I'm all ears. Well, something other than, "Just turn NC off", haha. 

Thanks.


----------



## BooleanBones

scubaphish said:


> Well I took the plunge and ordered a used set of EQs from amazon. Was more than $100 off. I know used is not everyone’s cup of tea, but price was so cheap relative to retail I couldn’t resist. I really want to try these, especially with the recent firmware update. Worst case, they have a scratch on the case…or they don’t work at all and I get a nice, new RMA set. Should have them tomorrow and will report back as they seem to have a recent stock of used for those that might be interested.


They sound really good in my opinion, especially in the area of vocal/instrumental tracks. I used similar eq wheel settings as Neko and Artmuzz for these tracks and loved it.


----------



## erockg

alleroy said:


> Considering the premises, what do you think about their ANC?


It's actually better than you would think for such a tiny pair.  Cuts fan noise, but my more expensive buds to crush them.


----------



## scubaphish (Mar 22, 2022)

erockg said:


> I'm having zero issues with my new pair and loving multipairing.  Works great.  I put some large Spinfits on them and so far so good.


I’m mostly concerned about fit. They look a little big, which is why I didn’t like the AKG. Fingers and ears crossed

Then I’d just have to sell the ol’ Gemini


----------



## erockg

scubaphish said:


> I’m mostly concerned about fit. They look a little big, which is why I didn’t like the AKG. Fingers and ears crossed
> 
> Then I’d just have to sell the ol’ Gemini


I'm still changing out tips on them but haven't had any fit issues per se.  Was just using them on a Zoom then when that was over, popped music on my iPhone and worked great.  They fit tighter than the AKG, slimmer profile but not small because of an extra half ring around the outer edge they added that the E8 doesn't have.  For me, they fit better than the AKG.  But not small by any means.  Don't know if you've had any of B&O's buds.  Here's a pic for size comparison:


----------



## erockg

scubaphish said:


> I’m mostly concerned about fit. They look a little big, which is why I didn’t like the AKG. Fingers and ears crossed
> 
> Then I’d just have to sell the ol’ Gemini





erockg said:


> I'm still changing out tips on them but haven't had any fit issues per se.  Was just using them on a Zoom then when that was over, popped music on my iPhone and worked great.  They fit tighter than the AKG, slimmer profile but not small because of an extra half ring around the outer edge they added that the E8 doesn't have.  For me, they fit better than the AKG.  But not small by any means.  Don't know if you've had any of B&O's buds.  Here's a pic for size comparison:


There's some new TWS from B&O coming called the Beoplay EX.  Some speculate a sport version.  No pics out there yet.


----------



## BooleanBones

scubaphish said:


> I’m mostly concerned about fit. They look a little big, which is why I didn’t like the AKG. Fingers and ears crossed
> 
> Then I’d just have to sell the ol’ Gemini


your pockets will appreciate the extra space


----------



## Tenlow (Mar 22, 2022)

So, about the V-Moda Hexamove Lite that I received today: Updated them to the latest 1.3 firmware - you need a separate app just for updating the buds.

The case is, as has already been mentioned, gigantic and feels very cheap. No wireless charging support.

The buds are fairly small but do look and feel cheap as well. Neither of the three included tips give me a good seal on both ears. Changed to foam tips now which work well. Fairly comfortable they are now.

They don't get very loud. Sound is bass heavy with the foam tips and very average otherwise. A bit hollow in the mids and lacking detail and sparkle in the highs. No EQ option in the app for the Lite version. The app doesn't have any features whatsoever. It shows the codec and a very rough battery status without any percentages. It shows the buds firmware version. You can register the product. That's it.

Touch controls are pretty horrible. Sometimes they work, sometimes not at all and you have to press quite heavily in order to activate anything.

No ANC, no transparency mode (which was known of course) but still. Bluetooth 5.0. AptX adaptive for whatever reason but it is there. Multipoint Bluetooth is there as well! Battery life seems ok (6 + 18 hours).


Summary:

Not worth 129 $/€. I paid 40 for them and they can now be had for 38 even on Amazon Germany. I guess for that price they are worth it, if only for the comfort, ok battery life, aptX adaptive and multipoint bluetooth. Suitable for electronic music / dance music / house music. Ok spare or throwaway pair when things get rough. Strange product though, all things considered.


----------



## PixelSquish

I have the Momentum TW2, from day 1. And I also have the XM4. I like having two pairs in case something happens to one. 

Anyway the TW2 are starting to crap the bed. If I don't use them for like a month, the case and buds lose the charge. I like the XM4 but with my Google Pixel LDAC is not usable as it often just works on one bud. 

I don't want to spend more than low 200's. The AZ60 seem promising but the LDAC battery life is mediocre and no AptX. Anything decent out there with ANC and AptX? Not interested in the new Senn's, the battery life is going to be as mediocre as the MTW2 it seems.


----------



## Tenlow

PixelSquish said:


> I have the Momentum TW2, from day 1. And I also have the XM4. I like having two pairs in case something happens to one.
> 
> Anyway the TW2 are starting to crap the bed. If I don't use them for like a month, the case and buds lose the charge. I like the XM4 but with my Google Pixel LDAC is not usable as it often just works on one bud.
> 
> I don't want to spend more than low 200's. The AZ60 seem promising but the LDAC battery life is mediocre and no AptX. Anything decent out there with ANC and AptX? Not interested in the new Senn's, the battery life is going to be as mediocre as the MTW2 it seems.


The Devialet Gemini have pretty good ANC, aptX, solid battery life and are "only" 229 right now which still counts as low 200's, I would assume.


----------



## samandhi (Mar 23, 2022)

So, an update on the Sony Linkbuds. I have listened to them for some weeks now, and they no longer make my ears hurt just from having them in. My skin must have gotten used to the "used car pieces" that these were recycled from. Great news for me anyhow. I still can't believe how good they sound only using AAC and/or SBC. I do miss the subbass that they DON'T have (they DO have plenty of overall bass though), but most of the music I listen to doesn't have much anyhow (only sometimes do I need it, but not a deal-breaker to me).

On another subject, I have a tip for those owners of the Linkbuds:
_Do not have "Wide Area Tap" enabled while chewing gum! _

I skipped 3 songs before I realized it was me chewing that was skipping those songs... LOL


----------



## BooleanBones

samandhi said:


> So, an update on the Sony Linkbuds. I have listened to them for some weeks now, and they no longer make my ears hurt just from having them in. My skin must have gotten used to the "used car pieces" that these were recycled from. Great news for me anyhow. I still can't believe how good they sound only using AAC and/or SBC. I do miss the subbass that they DON'T have, but most of the music I listen to doesn't have much anyhow (only sometimes do I need it, but not a deal-breaker to me).
> 
> On another subject, I have a tip for those owners of the Linkbuds:
> _Do not have "Wide Area Tap" enabled while chewing gum! _
> ...


Do or have you use them for Zoom/Teams calls or phone calls? They seem quieter to me in this scenario versus playing music.


----------



## samandhi (Mar 23, 2022)

BooleanBones said:


> Do or have you use them for Zoom/Teams calls or phone calls? They seem quieter to me in this scenario versus playing music.


I have not. I will have to give that a try. I normally just use my work pc for Teams meetings, and don't use BT phones of any kind. But I will try making a few phone calls and see. Do you find them to be too quiet even with volume maxed, or just quieter than music?

Edit: Normally I don't even connect them to my phone. I would normally connect them to my DX300 (where all my local music is stored).


----------



## BooleanBones

samandhi said:


> I have not. I will have to give that a try. I normally just use my work pc for Teams meetings, and don't use BT phones of any kind. But I will try making a few phone calls and see. Do you find them to be too quiet even with volume maxed, or just quieter than music?


In my limited tests, I tried having Zoom call me as well as join the meeting straight up from my iPhone, and I had to turn the volume to max to really hear normally. I typically use my external speaker and pc for them, but sometimes I like the mobility (people blabbing about nothing). These are great for that except the volume experience. For music, these actually surprised me like you describe above.


----------



## samandhi

BooleanBones said:


> Do or have you use them for Zoom/Teams calls or phone calls? They seem quieter to me in this scenario versus playing music.


OK! So, I made a few phone calls, and didn't touch the volume. I heard no volume difference to my ears. If you are having issues, and you are using android, are you sure you don't have one of the many volumes set too low? I think voice for phone and media are 2 separate volume controls (though I could be wrong).


----------



## samandhi

BooleanBones said:


> In my limited tests, I tried having Zoom call me as well as join the meeting straight up from my iPhone, and I had to turn the volume to max to really hear normally. I typically use my external speaker and pc for them, but sometimes I like the mobility (people blabbing about nothing). These are great for that except the volume experience. For music, these actually surprised me like you describe above.


Ah iPhone. I'm afraid my knowledge is limited on those.


----------



## BooleanBones

samandhi said:


> OK! So, I made a few phone calls, and didn't touch the volume. I heard no volume difference to my ears. If you are having issues, and you are using android, are you sure you don't have one of the many volumes set too low? I think voice for phone and media are 2 separate volume controls (though I could be wrong).


cool, let me play with them some more today. I am sucked into the Apple ecosystem around here


----------



## samandhi (Mar 23, 2022)

BooleanBones said:


> cool, let me play with them some more today. I am sucked into the Apple ecosystem around here


This doesn't seem relevant, but it can't hurt to give it a try. Maybe they are being seen as two different volume adjustments?!

Edit: This also has some (more-or-less) hidden features to help with volume. Not sure how much they will help because it sounds like you aren't having issue with music, only phone, but like I mentioned earlier; can't hurt to try these.


----------



## samandhi

One thing I noticed in that article that may pertain to you was this:



> *Click to turn off the button next to Phone Noise Cancellation and your iPhone call volume will increase.* The Phone Noise Cancellation feature enhances the audio quality when you make a call directly or over Bluetooth. If you are okay with the quality of the audio you get, turning off the feature can increase the volume significantly.


----------



## PixelSquish

How much better is AptX over AAC when using Tidal HiFi?


----------



## ddmareo

I'm not interested in wireless earphones/headphones. Maybe one day I'll give them a try though.


----------



## samandhi

PixelSquish said:


> How much better is AptX over AAC when using Tidal HiFi?


It has been my experience that it depends on the implementation on the earpieces themselves. I have heard AptX sound amazing, but then I have heard AAC sound better than AptX. But using Tidal Hifi makes no difference where BT is concerned because neither codec is capable of playing lossless. You would probably hear the same thing if you were using 320 .mp3. 

I would almost argue that using a lossy (or at least lesser) bitrate would sound better, because you won't have to worry about quantization errors (distortions), or any of that type of distortion introduced by downsampling, on top of the already discarded data from compressed files over BT. It really is going to depend on how well the music was produced to begin with (dynamics, loudness, noise floor, etc...) as to how good or bad it will sound after being compressed with BT codecs.


----------



## BigZ12

Updating my M&D MW08S as we speak. 
Excited to see if they've done any significant change to the app/ANC/sound signature and maybe most needed is better call quality. (the mics have been awful vs other brands)

I've always felt like there are way too boomy and muddy bass with ANC set to Max.
I've also wanted an EQ in the app, but I know that's not present now (asked the M&D customer support a short while ago, and they had no plan for an EQ).


----------



## PixelSquish

Tenlow said:


> The Devialet Gemini have pretty good ANC, aptX, solid battery life and are "only" 229 right now which still counts as low 200's, I would assume.


Oh thanks. I remember those were getting pretty good reviews from people on here when they came out for sound quality and ANC. How's the call quality?


----------



## tonyfiore75

BigZ12 said:


> Updating my M&D MW08S as we speak.
> Excited to see if they've done any significant change to the app/ANC/sound signature and maybe most needed is better call quality. (the mics have been awful vs other brands)
> 
> I've always felt like there are way too boomy and muddy bass with ANC set to Max.
> I've also wanted an EQ in the app, but I know that's not present now (asked the M&D customer support a short while ago, and they had no plan for an EQ).


I'm really interested to know your thoughts after the update. As someone who really enjoyed the MW08 and felt similarly about the bass, I'd love to know if your opinions change.


----------



## nekonhime

tonyfiore75 said:


> I'm really interested to know your thoughts after the update. As someone who really enjoyed the MW08 and felt similarly about the bass, I'd love to know if your opinions change.


Well, the sound is warm but not muddy, the fit is good but not for running, the call quality is meh as I have to repeat what I said to the others, but since I got the EQ and N400NC, I ended up selling mine for 150.


----------



## tonyfiore75

nekonhime said:


> Well, the sound is warm but not muddy, the fit is good but not for running, the call quality is meh as I have to repeat what I said to the others, but since I got the EQ and N400NC, I ended up selling mine for 150.


I've had the B&O EQ, the MW08 and the Technics AZ60. I had issues with strange, high-pitched noises with the EQ (with regard to noise-cancelling situations) but loved the sound quality. I actcually really liked the MW08. For me, the fit and SQ were excellent but I hated that the app pretty much sucked and couldn't be used to tweak the EQ,. Right now, the AZ60s are hitting a lot of the marks for me but I'm pretty sure I enjoyed the SQ on the other two slightly more. It's a constant struggle, lol.


----------



## BigZ12

BigZ12 said:


> Updating my M&D MW08S as we speak.
> Excited to see if they've done any significant change to the app/ANC/sound signature and maybe most needed is better call quality. (the mics have been awful vs other brands)
> 
> I've always felt like there are way too boomy and muddy bass with ANC set to Max.
> I've also wanted an EQ in the app, but I know that's not present now (asked the M&D customer support a short while ago, and they had no plan for an EQ).


First impressions:
1. No EQ in app, no new settings or changes in the app. (as expected)
2. I think the app loading is slower, and also changing between ANC/Ambient modes on/off with the buttons on the left bud?
3. Difficult to say if SQ is better/worse since I have no set with old firmware to compare...(but maybe a tad less boomy Max vs All day??, but still boomier)
With large Spinfit CP350 I still like the SQ with ANC All day a lot.
4. I'm quite sure they are louder
5. I think ANC is a bit better, especially the Ambient listening, because of the update on the mics (if they use the same as mics for calls)?
6. Because the mics for calls are WAY better than before. Tested a couple of calls, and also with the iPhone voice recorder.


----------



## nekonhime

tonyfiore75 said:


> I've had the B&O EQ, the MW08 and the Technics AZ60. I had issues with strange, high-pitched noises with the EQ (with regard to noise-cancelling situations) but loved the sound quality. I actcually really liked the MW08. For me, the fit and SQ were excellent but I hated that the app pretty much sucked and couldn't be used to tweak the EQ,. Right now, the AZ60s are hitting a lot of the marks for me but I'm pretty sure I enjoyed the SQ on the other two slightly more. It's a constant struggle, lol.


I feel you lol, I have the mw08, t5 ii anc, sony wf1000x4, eq, akg n400nc but I end up choosing the sony, eq, akg because of the mic, sq, and anc are better than mw08, and T5 despite I have taken liking those two more than the sony in the sound department.


----------



## tonyfiore75

nekonhime said:


> I feel you lol, I have the mw08, t5 ii anc, sony wf1000x4, eq, akg n400nc but I end up choosing the sony, eq, akg because of the mic, sq, and anc are better than mw08, and T5 despite I have taken liking those two more than the sony in the sound department.


For me, it's primarily about sound quality. I don't use them for phone calls. I primarily use them to commute to and from work (and sometimes during work). The EQs, to me, were the most jaw dropping with regard to sound quality. The MW08s were second. The AZ60s are a very close third. Also, I was coming from the Sony x3s, which were fine but never had that wow factor to my ears. 

At this point I'm trying to figure out whether I want to keep the AZ60s or return to one of the other two. Unfortunately, I have this feeling I'll never be 100% satisfied with my decision, hahaha!


----------



## nekonhime

tonyfiore75 said:


> For me, it's primarily about sound quality. I don't use them for phone calls. I primarily use them to commute to and from work (and sometimes during work). The EQs, to me, were the most jaw dropping with regard to sound quality. The MW08s were second. The AZ60s are a very close third. Also, I was coming from the Sony x3s, which were fine but never had that wow factor to my ears.
> 
> At this point I'm trying to figure out whether I want to keep the AZ60s or return to one of the other two. Unfortunately, I have this feeling I'll never be 100% satisfied with my decision, hahaha!


Same here lol, I can't carry all 5 mtfk around everyday so I have to choose 3.


----------



## scubaphish

scubaphish said:


> Well I took the plunge and ordered a used set of EQs from amazon. Was more than $100 off. I know used is not everyone’s cup of tea, but price was so cheap relative to retail I couldn’t resist. I really want to try these, especially with the recent firmware update. Worst case, they have a scratch on the case…or they don’t work at all and I get a nice, new RMA set. Should have them tomorrow and will report back as they seem to have a recent stock of used for those that might be interested.


Not sure what I’m doing wrong, but after doing firmware update I’m finding it very difficult to factory reset (eventually successful) and now putting into pairing mode (still unsuccessful).


----------



## BigZ12

BigZ12 said:


> Updating my M&D MW08S as we speak.
> Excited to see if they've done any significant change to the app/ANC/sound signature and maybe most needed is better call quality. (the mics have been awful vs other brands)
> 
> I've always felt like there are way too boomy and muddy bass with ANC set to Max.
> I've also wanted an EQ in the app, but I know that's not present now (asked the M&D customer support a short while ago, and they had no plan for an EQ).





BigZ12 said:


> First impressions:
> 1. No EQ in app, no new settings or changes in the app. (as expected)
> 2. I think the app loading is slower, and also changing between ANC/Ambient modes on/off with the buttons on the left bud?
> 3. Difficult to say if SQ is better/worse since I have no set with old firmware to compare...(but maybe a tad less boomy Max vs All day??, but still boomier)
> ...


But... one problem... the sound on my end with calls are bad. Low volume and it's like the sound is out of phase? Like the one I'm talking to is on both sides of my head. Very strange. 
At least they hear me very loud and clear. 

I will delete the pairing, restart both buds and phone and try again.


----------



## jant71 (Mar 23, 2022)

Back again and 60% off as well... https://www.amazon.com/LavaBeans-Bluetooth-Headphones-Reduction-Waterproof/dp/B09LR1N358/ref=sr_1_3?crid=3BAGHQGTBTOKH&keywords=lavabeans+wireless+earbuds&qid=1648066178&sprefix=,aps,333&sr=8-3

I have used mine enough that they are well burnt in and I doubt they have an armature in them. Too good an implementation at the price point. Would be incoherent or off in some way. Pretty much has to be just the 10.6mm Titanium driver. Makes no difference cause they sound up there with any I have had and that is for both signature and SQ. Very happy on both counts using a shorter style TWS style tip from my AT CKS50TW. I do miss ambient but other than that great fit, had no better close to body signal stability even with DAP's. Haven't had a drop in so long and don't anticipate them any more. Also, other than putting the case on a Qi charger and taking a picture of that I haven't charged the case since I have gotten them and doubt I will till after Easter. Touch control is still at the right sensitivity and works well enough to be on par with buttons so no accidents. No doubt the best buy I've had in TWS so far.


----------



## scubaphish

scubaphish said:


> Not sure what I’m doing wrong, but after doing firmware update I’m finding it very difficult to factory reset (eventually successful) and now putting into pairing mode (still unsuccessful).


Just spoke with B&O support, very nice. Sounds like the firmware might have bricked the earbuds. Never even had a chance to listen to them. That said, they’re willing to RMA them for me (after an inspection of course). Unlike B&W they cover the return shipping. 
Person on the phone suggested I don’t update those when I get them. Quandary


----------



## jant71

erockg said:


> There's some new TWS from B&O coming called the Beoplay EX.  Some speculate a sport version.  No pics out there yet.


Might be trying to be small. From the filing, not much info, but saw the case only has a 350maH battery so probably not more than 3 charges from it. Again maybe trying to have  a small case.


----------



## Tenlow

PixelSquish said:


> Oh thanks. I remember those were getting pretty good reviews from people on here when they came out for sound quality and ANC. How's the call quality?


Perfectly fine so far. Haven't used them for calls very often, though. No complaints yet


----------



## scubaphish

PixelSquish said:


> Oh thanks. I remember those were getting pretty good reviews from people on here when they came out for sound quality and ANC. How's the call quality?


I’ve had success with them for indoor calls. Outdoors has been a little more challenging for those on the other side. 
I do think they’re wonderful sounding earbuds


----------



## jant71 (Mar 23, 2022)

Saw the new Yamaha come in a denim or steel blue color too. I thought the brown was nice but the blue with the silver accents/buttons is not bad at all. Think I like the blue best now.







More of interest for the "true sound" and "uniquely designed mic conduit"/"advanced mic design" though. If there is something to those and they perform really well more than are marketing.  Great sound and ambient/calls would makes these sweet esp. with the control set up. Like the 2 and 1 button set up as one tends to get confused having several models that do it their own way but the standard three button type is hard to forget.


----------



## PixelSquish

scubaphish said:


> I’ve had success with them for indoor calls. Outdoors has been a little more challenging for those on the other side.
> I do think they’re wonderful sounding earbuds



Thanks. I mostly take calls on my TWS when walking the dog so that might be problematic. I will do some more reading.


----------



## erockg

jant71 said:


> Might be trying to be small. From the filing, not much info, but saw the case only has a 350maH battery so probably not more than 3 charges from it. Again maybe trying to have  a small case.


Interesting.  That would be great.  Probably no ANC too.  Guess we'll see one day.  I remember when they filed for the EQ everything was delayed.


----------



## erockg

scubaphish said:


> Just spoke with B&O support, very nice. Sounds like the firmware might have bricked the earbuds. Never even had a chance to listen to them. That said, they’re willing to RMA them for me (after an inspection of course). Unlike B&W they cover the return shipping.
> Person on the phone suggested I don’t update those when I get them. Quandary


Yeah, bad rep logic.  LOL.  Why would you want to buy them if you can't use the latest update?  It's the best update yet for them.


----------



## BooleanBones

erockg said:


> Yeah, bad rep logic.  LOL.  Why would you want to buy them if you can't use the latest update?  It's the best update yet for them.


I know you can drive them 120, but we recommend 52 for optimal efficiency


----------



## LCMusicLover

LCMusicLover said:


> … Case closes fully while holding UTWS3 with IT07s connected and rotated on the mmcx connectors.  Probably won't work with Volts which are 2-pin and so won't rotate to fit, plus they're a fair amount bigger than IT07s.


Posted a video showing this. Note that my UTWS3 are 2-pin, so there are adapters needed to connect to the adapters 

As you can see, it’s a snug fit, and you have to make sure the curved parts of the UTWS3 are ‘properly’ inserted into the case so they don’t interfere w/ closure.

And I was correct that the Volts don’t fit.


----------



## iamhajemi (Mar 24, 2022)

Hi guys. I am new here and I want to share my experience and ask a recommendation.

So I had redmi airdots (1st I guess) and I was happy about 2 years. Recently I decided to upgrade my tws experience. So after digging internet I decided to buy edifier tws1 pro. It was cheap (35$), new chip, new bt version, great battery life.
But after getting it I was disappointed. The sound is not for my taste. Its too bright for me. I am not basshead but its too bright. Also its not fitting my ears properly and it hearts. I know people like this tws, when I compare it with airdots I can say it has quality but I don't enjoy it as much I enjoy airdots. I had Earfun free pro. Sadly I lost it. It was good but I felt its bass too much for me. It was way better than edifier.

I have blon bl-03 its also too bright for me. I want to buy moondrop aria but need tws also. What you recommend under 70$? Preferably without stem. Also is it good option to upgrade iem with Bluetooth adapter?


----------



## LCMusicLover

iamhajemi said:


> ... Also is it good option to upgrade iem with Bluetooth adapter?


That's what I ended up doing.  FiiO UTWS3 can drive all my IEMs and sound better than the (admittedly few) TWS IEMs I tried. Not really a fair comparison as my IEMs cost significantly more than your budget or any of the TWS IEMs I tried, but I think it will still be true if you use adapters with more modestly priced IEMs .


----------



## tendou (Mar 27, 2022)

Can anyone recommended a good budget tws with good isolation? Usage is mostly for listening to podcast or YouTube speech video and not really for listening to music.

Maybe under 25usd and under 50usd.


----------



## jant71 (Mar 25, 2022)

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/astell-kern-ak-uw100-tws-earbuds.962709/#post-16881768
https://www.iriver.jp/information/entry_1231.php


What does this remind me of?? Looks good but a single armature doesn't get it done. They never did make one that can really do the whole spectrum without deficiency in some way so you really need at least two but ideally three. Would have been nice to be a 1+1 hybrid. Nice to fit in the fancy components to be limited by being a single armature. Worry about the stage, the bass not being a bit soft, and will it nicely extend in one direction or the other cause it can't do both really well on it's own. Judging those two reviews they provided links two the bass is gonna need help. One talks only of "great detail" and the other says "fast and precise bass" but could they EQ to be satisfying out in the real world which cancels out bass freqs so there will be less unless you are in a quiet environment. The need to EQ them up some looks like the deal here. Shame for $300 bad calls and ambient quality.   

Buds look quite a bit like the V-Moda to me

Guess they should get one under the belt but seems they made less than ideal mic choice and driver choice in the first go around.


----------



## Not so fat head

tendou said:


> Can anyone recommended a good budget tws with good isolation? Usage is mostly for podcast or YouTube speech.
> 
> Maybe under 25usd and under 50usd.


Hi tendou,
If you have a Marshals or TJ Max nearby, they usually have a good selection under $30..


----------



## Toom

LCMusicLover said:


> That's what I ended up doing.  FiiO UTWS3 can drive all my IEMs and sound better than the (admittedly few) TWS IEMs I tried. Not really a fair comparison as my IEMs cost significantly more than your budget or any of the TWS IEMs I tried, but I think it will still be true if you use adapters with more modestly priced IEMs .


How do these Fiio adaptors look when wearing them in the real world?


----------



## BigZ12

Toom said:


> How do these Fiio adaptors look when wearing them in the real world?


----------



## LCMusicLover

Toom said:


> How do these Fiio adaptors look when wearing them in the real world?


Well, more obtrusive than a TWS IEM alone.  The Shure's are more slender, while the FiiOs and iBassos are bulkier.  You wouldn't notice them if your hair was longer, but I keep mine pretty short, so they are there.  Nothing like wearing cans around though.  And not that much more obvious than most cell phone in-ear headset, but on both sides of course.

Honestly, I never even thought about that until you asked.  I guess I'm too old to worry much about my appearance.  Sort of _... fly is zipped up, so I'm good._


----------



## C_Lindbergh

Yes, I wouldn't care that much about the appearance of a TWS adapter. 

But you lose 2 crucial features, tiny case and ANC.


----------



## LCMusicLover

C_Lindbergh said:


> Yes, I wouldn't care that much about the appearance of a TWS adapter.
> 
> But you lose 2 crucial features, tiny case and ANC.


Perhaps crucial for some, but not for others.

For me, the crucial feature is the best possible sound.  Secondarily, easy control of playback, and overall ease of use.  

For me, the case of the UTWS3 is small enough to carry around easily, but I can see how others might prefer smaller.  I don't need (and wouldn't use) ANC as I don't spend much time in noisy environments.  

Apparently my signature should say 

_My use case/your use case_


----------



## C_Lindbergh

LCMusicLover said:


> Perhaps crucial for some, but not for others.
> 
> For me, the crucial feature is the best possible sound.  Secondarily, easy control of playback, and overall ease of use.
> 
> ...



Just saying there's a reason TWS are popular even among folks here on Head-fi...

And TWS have come a long way, even the SQ is pretty decent, I personally also care a bit less about SQ when I'm out and about, then features like ANC etc becomes more important. 

Obiouvly when I'm in the comfort of my own home then my priorities changes.


----------



## jant71

Okay, you talked me into it.  I'll be the Yamaha E5B guinea pig. $145 with the Priority DHL shipping isn't bad. Haven't had a Yamaha earphone or headphone in years anyway.


----------



## BooleanBones

jant71 said:


> Okay, you talked me into it.  I'll be the Yamaha E5B guinea pig. $145 with the Priority DHL shipping isn't bad. Haven't had a Yamaha earphone or headphone in years anyway.


So tempted myself. Dang you


----------



## Ceeluh7

jant71 said:


> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/astell-kern-ak-uw100-tws-earbuds.962709/#post-16881768
> https://www.iriver.jp/information/entry_1231.php
> 
> 
> ...


One balanced armature is ridiculous and is rarely ever done right in even in higher priced iems. The whole spectrum just doesn't get representation the way most would enjoy. Separation can be an issue, congestion and most certainly low end reproduction. For $300 this is just silly and very bold. Will people buy the name? I just don't see this set doing anything other than what we are assuming


----------



## nekonhime

jant71 said:


> Okay, you talked me into it.  I'll be the Yamaha E5B guinea pig. $145 with the Priority DHL shipping isn't bad. Haven't had a Yamaha earphone or headphone in years anyway.


Last time I had their yh e700a and it was a bad experience lol. I hope they improve their quality this year.


----------



## mainguy (Mar 26, 2022)

Its been an interesting 2 year tws journey.

Ive owned Sennheisers, Master & Dynamics, Bowers & Wilkins, and a few others.

I must admit after doing the rounds I think overall I find Airpods Pro are the best tws.

To elaborate, when I use tws im not critically listening. I want something I can throw on, go to the shops, jump on my bike, etc.

Airpods Pro have such good controls, and such a great transparency mode, that they make listening and doing anything a breeze. You can easily interact with the outside world, with transparency, in a click, or you can answer a call and have great mics, in a click.

PI7 transparency was useless making them a nogo for me. Mw08/07 mics sucked ass, making them a nogo.

Sound wise, there are differences but its somewhat subtle. The Pi7 sound the best, but its not tk the point where the airpods pro sound poor. The latter still sound great.

Relatively speaking, ive owned some good wired iems over this period too, andromeda, solaris, etc. They sound so much better than any of these that if SQ was a priority id go the wired route. But thats not why we use tws. Anyway, I think Apple just have the tws thing down. Theres serious caveats with all the others ive tried sadly. In sound id say the airpods pro are 80% of the PI7, which are the best sounding tws ive tried (from android, pi7 sound awful from iOS). But that minor drop in SQ is easily outweighed by the features.

Sad as the PI7 are a thing of beauty. But theyre so clumsy to use


----------



## samandhi (Mar 26, 2022)

Ceeluh7 said:


> One balanced armature is ridiculous and is rarely ever done right in even in higher priced iems. The whole spectrum just doesn't get representation the way most would enjoy. Separation can be an issue, congestion and most certainly low end reproduction. For $300 this is just silly and very bold. Will people buy the name? I just don't see this set doing anything other than what we are assuming


I totally agree with all your points about these, except one. The bass production from a BA CAN be very good if done right. I have the Audiosense T800 with is an 8 BA IEM and the bass production for these is akin to DD(ish). No they aren't JUST like DD but, like planar can be, they are just different.

That being said, if there is only one BA I doubt they will be able to "do it right" as I mentioned, because of the fact that it has to represent the whole spectrum. I would bet they will sound shrill(ish) up top, recessed mids, but overall very soft because of the low end. I would be curious to hear how they sound, but I would never pay $300 for them. Nope, no way!

As a matter of fact, now that I'm thinking about it, I don't recall any IEMs that were 1 BA. Can you think of any?


----------



## assassin10000

samandhi said:


> As a matter of fact, now that I'm thinking about it, I don't recall any IEMs that were 1 BA. Can you think of any?



Er4, er3, w10, um pro 10, audiosense t180, dt100......


----------



## BigZ12

I have/I've had Sennheiser MTW2, Sony XM4, M&D MW08S, Devialet Gemini, Beats Fit Pro, Airpods Pro, B&O E8, Lypertek Pureplay Z7, Lypertek Tevi, some cheap chi-fi tws'...

The best allrounder for me using iPhone 12, Apple TV 4K and Macbook Pro 14:

- Beats Fit Pro with Comply Foam TW-200-C tips -

+ Fit, sound quality, call quality, connection and stability, ANC, transparency mode, battery life, spatial audio (amazing with Dolby Atmos and movies with Apple TV 4k!!!), H1 chip and easy connection with Apple products.
- The case... talk about cheap "flimsy" plastic, and without wireless charging.

I give it a solid 8,5 of 10.


----------



## logiatype

BigZ12 said:


> I have/I've had Sennheiser MTW2, Sony XM4, M&D MW08S, Devialet Gemini, Beats Fit Pro, Airpods Pro, B&O E8, Lypertek Pureplay Z7, Lypertek Tevi, some cheap chi-fi tws'...
> 
> The best allrounder for me using iPhone 12, Apple TV 4K and Macbook Pro 14:
> 
> ...


Are there any graphs of it? Wanted to try it but no custom EQ puts me off.


----------



## jant71

nekonhime said:


> Last time I had their yh e700a and it was a bad experience lol. I hope they improve their quality this year.


That's the feeling. Like AT made nice improvements I figure they will have learned from the A series. That the "B" will mean better.  We know they are capable of good stuff. These look more well thought out and designed. I figure they won't drop the ball in the execution area. That is the hope anyway.


----------



## jant71

Ceeluh7 said:


> One balanced armature is ridiculous and is rarely ever done right in even in higher priced iems. The whole spectrum just doesn't get representation the way most would enjoy. Separation can be an issue, congestion and most certainly low end reproduction. For $300 this is just silly and very bold. Will people buy the name? I just don't see this set doing anything other than what we are assuming


And there it is....




Didn't see this yesterday but indeed they had no real room in this design except for an armature in the bore. Not against single armatures too much. I really like my Sonata. Not sure they can do that level here though. Possible but this one is a bit of a gamble.


----------



## BigZ12

logiatype said:


> Are there any graphs of it? Wanted to try it but no custom EQ puts me off.


https://www.rtings.com/headphones/reviews/beats/fit-pro-true-wireless


----------



## darveniza

mainguy said:


> Its been an interesting 2 year tws journey.
> 
> Ive owned Sennheisers, Master & Dynamics, Bowers & Wilkins, and a few others.
> 
> ...


Feel the same but the LG Tone FP8 are my goto. The weight, ease of controls and perform the best for phone calls in noisy places. LG has years doing wireless (neckbands,etc) and have the most consistent mic technology. Again, music wise general listening they work well while at work. If I will be home and reading a book then B&O EQ , MD 08s ,Grado or Shanling TWS200. Technics AZ60 for travel as the ANC is critical piece during plane rides


----------



## cresny

Based on your recommendation


darveniza said:


> Feel the same but the LG Tone FP8 are my goto. The weight, ease of controls and perform the best for phone calls in noisy places. LG has years doing wireless (neckbands,etc) and have the most consistent mic technology. Again, music wise general listening they work well while at work. If I will be home and reading a book then B&O EQ , MD 08s ,Grado or Shanling TWS200. Technics AZ60 for travel as the ANC is critical piece during plane rides


Based on your recommendation, I just snagged the FP9 for $85. Unfortunately it was the last in inventory, or I would post the link. These will most definitely become my new work buds.


----------



## mt877

A little industry news story about TWS design, pretty good read.

Designed for Growth: Enabling Product Differentiation for TWS Development

​


----------



## cresny

Ceeluh7 said:


> One balanced armature is ridiculous and is rarely ever done right in even in higher priced iems. The whole spectrum just doesn't get representation the way most would enjoy. Separation can be an issue, congestion and most certainly low end reproduction. For $300 this is just silly and very bold. Will people buy the name? I just don't see this set doing anything other than what we are assuming


Here's a review talking about how the DAC really makes it work https://www.digitaltrends.com/home-theater/astell-and-kern-ak-uw100-review/


----------



## samandhi (Mar 26, 2022)

cresny said:


> Here's a review talking about how the DAC really makes it work https://www.digitaltrends.com/home-theater/astell-and-kern-ak-uw100-review/


Well, at least they are using a Knowles BA as opposed to Sonyon (which is ok, Knowles is just better IMO). I don't really trust consumer review sites, but the arguments seem compelling. I am just not willing to pay that much for something I will be replacing in a few years. Had they made the battery replaceable, I might consider.

Maybe the price will come down (I kinda' doubt it, it is A&K after all). If it did, I JUST might be curious enough to try it. If it sounded really good, I might be compelled to publicly eat my own words.


----------



## stacey

I wonder how good the A&K is. I might just buy it to compliment my LCD i4.


----------



## Ceeluh7

samandhi said:


> I totally agree with all your points about these, except one. The bass production from a BA CAN be very good if done right. I have the Audiosense T800 with is an 8 BA IEM and the bass production for these is akin to DD(ish). No they aren't JUST like DD but, like planar can be, they are just different.
> 
> That being said, if there is only one BA I doubt they will be able to "do it right" as I mentioned, because of the fact that it has to represent the whole spectrum. I would bet they will sound shrill(ish) up top, recessed mids, but overall very soft because of the low end. I would be curious to hear how they sound, but I would never pay $300 for them. Nope, no way!
> 
> As a matter of fact, now that I'm thinking about it, I don't recall any IEMs that were 1 BA. Can you think of any?


Ya... Audiosense did do the BA bass correctly. You are right. Fiio did a decent job with BA Bass as well. It is just very hard to do the whole spectrum well with a single BA. The t600/t800 are multiple BA's and they are hands down some of the best you can buy in their respective price points... Anyway, you are right man. As far as 1 BA iems, there was the Fiio fa1, campfire comet, kbear neon, and a few others. Etymotic has a line of them and they are tuned well however ridiculously deep insertion. There is always something missing though. One side of the mix always seems to be lost or subdued. Anyhow, great point about the Audiosense man.


----------



## Ceeluh7

jant71 said:


> And there it is....
> 
> Didn't see this yesterday but indeed they had no real room in this design except for an armature in the bore. Not against single armatures too much. I really like my Sonata. Not sure they can do that level here though. Possible but this one is a bit of a gamble.


Thanks man... It is a Knowles full range, I am seriously doubting a full spectrum representation but stranger things have happened.. Lol. It just seems an odd choice for a company like Astell & kern. I have to think that they wanted to keep this set smaller and market these as audiophile type... Which can also mean... Not fun... Sorry. I don't want to rain on their parade, watch these come out and be amazing, again, stranger things have happened


----------



## samandhi

Ceeluh7 said:


> Thanks man... It is a Knowles full range, I am seriously doubting a full spectrum representation but stranger things have happened.. Lol. It just seems an odd choice for a company like Astell & kern. I have to think that they wanted to keep this set smaller and market these as audiophile type... Which can also mean... Not fun... Sorry. I don't want to rain on their parade, watch these come out and be amazing, again, stranger things have happened


I'm with you on this one, though I would be happy to be proven wrong.


----------



## Ceeluh7

samandhi said:


> I'm with you on this one, though I would be happy to be proven wrong.


Me too


----------



## stacey (Mar 26, 2022)

This one we’re going to have to wait on reviews. But since they didn’t send it to the usual audiophile review sites so….

Anyway provided it sounds better than the AirPods Pro and Sony XM4 it should be fine, or at least for me.  AirPods Pro uses a voice coil, and XM4 is a single driver. Do you guys honestly expect a multi driver onboard system TWS IEM for <$300?
Unless you shop chi-fi a wired DD can easily exceed $300.


----------



## samandhi (Mar 26, 2022)

stacey said:


> This one we’re going to have to wait on reviews. But since they didn’t send it to the usual audiophile review sites so….
> 
> Anyway provided it sounds better than the AirPods Pro and Sony XM4 it should be fine, or at least for me.  AirPods Pro uses a voice coil, and XM4 is a single driver. Do you guys honestly expect a multi driver onboard system TWS IEM for <$300?
> Unless you shop chi-fi a wired DD can easily exceed $300.


Sure, why not? Wouldn't be the first. SoundPEATS Truengine 3 SE has dual DD for $50 (for instance).

Edit: Or heck, the SoundPEATS H1 is 1 DD + 1 BA for $79....


----------



## jant71

stacey said:


> This one we’re going to have to wait on reviews. But since they didn’t send it to the usual audiophile review sites so….
> 
> Anyway provided it sounds better than the AirPods Pro and Sony XM4 it should be fine, or at least for me.  AirPods Pro uses a voice coil, and XM4 is a single driver. Do you guys honestly expect a multi driver onboard system TWS IEM for <$300?
> Unless you shop chi-fi a wired DD can easily exceed $300.


Ever heard of the FoKus Pro?? $49 more for a triple hybrid with two Knowles.  The LavaBeans I got sound better than than APP for $16.63. For $299, "better than the APP should be fine" is not my take.


----------



## stacey

jant71 said:


> Ever heard of the FoKus Pro?? $49 more for a triple hybrid with two Knowles.  The LavaBeans I got sound better than than APP for $16.63. For $299, "better than the APP should be fine" is not my take.


The Nobles are another one I’m looking at, to replace my XM4 that went missing. I was pretty happy with the sound of those. And on the lower end Bluetooth connectivity issues were always a problem and I’ve multiple TWS over the past couple years.


----------



## mainguy

stacey said:


> This one we’re going to have to wait on reviews. But since they didn’t send it to the usual audiophile review sites so….
> 
> Anyway provided it sounds better than the AirPods Pro and Sony XM4 it should be fine, or at least for me.  AirPods Pro uses a voice coil, and XM4 is a single driver. Do you guys honestly expect a multi driver onboard system TWS IEM for <$300?
> Unless you shop chi-fi a wired DD can easily exceed $300.


PI7 has a multi driver system, a DD & a BA I believe, and is under 300 in most places, including amazon now. Of course there's also Galaxy buds which have two DD and are around 100-150 now.


----------



## dweaver

stacey said:


> This one we’re going to have to wait on reviews. But since they didn’t send it to the usual audiophile review sites so….
> 
> Anyway provided it sounds better than the AirPods Pro and Sony XM4 it should be fine, or at least for me.  AirPods Pro uses a voice coil, and XM4 is a single driver. Do you guys honestly expect a multi driver onboard system TWS IEM for <$300?
> Unless you shop chi-fi a wired DD can easily exceed $300.


Soundcore Liberty 2/3 Pro, Status  Between Pro, Lypertek Z7 all have hybrid driver configurations of 1DD and 2 BA drivers, so it's more than possible to have a multi driver configuration.

My challenge is how do you all those drivers plus all the electronics needed for a TWS and make them sound truly exceptional. So far I have not found a TWS that has that wow factor for sound.

When I finally overcame my aversion to buying a higher end IEM and paired it with a high end TWS adapter I finally realized what I was missing. Now I can't go back. Everytime I put on one of my TWS I can't help but notice what is missing musically speaking. They all have a smaller profile and better ergonomics and their case takes up less space but none of them come close to the sound quality I want. 

I literally kept buying more and more products out of boredom with the sound. I would be happy for a couple of days because it was new, and then find myself not really listening to my music and then the itch would start over because I was just not satisfied.

So what do I mean by musicality? For me a big part of the musical experience is a sense of immersion into the music and this requires good spatial imaging that portrays music from coming all around me. I have not found any TWS capable of doing this to anything more than 50% of what a good IEM can accomplish. Next is seperation and room to breath again this is an area that all TWS struggle with being around 60% of what a good IEM can accomplish. Without this quality I find vocals lose their emotion and instruments don't have room convey their sound fully.

Comfort is also a big part of it. I thought my AZ60 were awesome and comfy until I got the Fiio FH5 and now I struggle to wear the AZ60. They just have pressure points and the longer I wear the FH5 the less I find myself willing to wear anything less comfortable. I am tempted to try another Jabra product as those were super comfy. But I know the musicality of them will be even worse than the AZ60 so what's the point...


----------



## samandhi

dweaver said:


> So what do I mean by musicality? For me a big part of the musical experience is a sense of immersion into the music and this requires good spatial imaging that portrays music from coming all around me. I have not found any TWS capable of doing this to anything more than 50% of what a good IEM can accomplish. Next is seperation and room to breath again this is an area that all TWS struggle with being around 60% of what a good IEM can accomplish. Without this quality I find vocals lose their emotion and instruments don't have room convey their sound fully.


Sony Linkbuds my friend. These sound like open back headphones in those areas IMHO.


----------



## dweaver

Tempted to try them. One downside to IEMs is getting too disconnected from people around me.


----------



## samandhi

dweaver said:


> Tempted to try them. One downside to IEMs is getting too disconnected from people around me.


Since you have been on this thread for a while, you should know how picky I can be about IEMs/TWS, and I was pleasantly surprised at how good they are at what they are targeted to be. It is a niche market for these, because everyone (except me) wants ANC or at the very least passive noise isolation. And battery life is less than the average of TWS nowadays, but from completely dead it only took about 30-40 minutes (didn't time it exactly) to charge to full in the case. Now, the case does take a long time to charge, so if you use these daily, you might have to throw the case on the charger nightly, but I do this with my phone anyhow. 

With the proper fit and adjustment (these COMPLETELY rely on proper adjustment, or they sound like crap hence the mixed reviews on the sound) they are plenty loud to drown out all but the loudest sounds IMHO. And tapping pretty much anywhere on your jaw (it works best to tap your cheek where it is fleshy, the tighter the skin the less it will vibrate and the harder you have to tap) controls them, which is probably one of my favorite features aside from the sound quality. 

This coming from someone who has NEVER liked any Sony IEMs or TWS to this point. Granted, I use the built-in EQ (Bright setting for more airy treble), the stock setting isn't as dark as their normal house sound IMO. Bass is plenty of quantity, but sub bass is severely lacking, so if you like EDM, or R&B, or Rap, these might not do it for you, though it isn't horrible on those either. But, with Jazz, Rock, etc... it has plenty; it relies on a boosted mid + upper bass to make up the lack of sub-bass.


----------



## dweaver

I like sub-bass but more for ambient music than EDM. Mostly I listen to a lot of rock music, Jazz, and classical. I actually hit a point where I could not listen to Sony due to their dark sound and lack of excitement. So if these are the opposite of that they might be a good option for work place and at home when I can't focus on just my music.


----------



## samandhi

dweaver said:


> I like sub-bass but more for ambient music than EDM. Mostly I listen to a lot of rock music, Jazz, and classical. I actually hit a point where I could not listen to Sony due to their dark sound and lack of excitement. So if these are the opposite of that they might be a good option for work place and at home when I can't focus on just my music.


Well, they aren't the opposite, but are just less so than normal house sound (bass is a bit less quantity, and treble is a bit less warm balancing the scale a bit better), and the in-app EQ adjusts the sound noticeably (without clipping or reducing volume). 

Also keep in mind, this is on an android device. I have no idea how good/bad they are on an Apple device (speaking about the in-app EQ) because we all know how closed the system is when it comes to system EQs for Apple.


----------



## stacey

With Apple you can apply a bunch of  EQ presets on Apple Music or on individual apps, however no manual EQ settings. 

Here’s what you get on Apple Music via system settings:





Tidal gets nothing. Apple practically incentivizes you to use a DAC considering you can’t stream lossless without an external DAC.


----------



## samandhi

stacey said:


> With Apple you can apply a bunch of  EQ presets on Apple Music or on individual apps, however no manual EQ settings.
> 
> Here’s what you get on Apple Music via system settings:
> 
> ...


That is the system wide settings. I am talking about the in-app EQ settings in the linkbuds software (that would override system settings). It has been my experience that you can't do that in Apple eco-system unless you "jailbreak", unless something has changed since last I used iDevices. So, yes, you are stuck with those crappy pre-sets, and no custom ones.


----------



## h1a8

So far the best sounding (out of the box) tws sets are
1. Beoplay eq (just not loud enough on some tracks) Note: They are not worth $400. $250-300 is about right.
2. akg n400 (tonally almost perfect but technically needs more resolution)
3. Status Between pro (no transparent or anc though but the loudest and passive nc is close to good anc).
4. galaxy buds pro (tonally perfect but need a little more sub bass and resolution).
.
.
.
>8. liberty 3 pro (not very good out of the box

After eq (getting them to match a target)
1. status between pro (easily on par with the best $200 iem sets) but needs a hell of lot of work to get them to match a target (need a 3rd party app)
2. beoplay eq (very close to top $200 iem sets)
3. akg n400
4. liberty 3 pro (biggest improvement out of all of them once performing hearing ID and then adjusting from there)
5. galaxy buds pro (tonally almost perfect only a slight sub bass shelf is added)


Yes I tried others (Sony = so so, Bose = ok, jabra = ok, Neobuds pro=so so, PI7 = horrible, beats = ok, etc.)


If you can live without anc and transparency mode then the best option is a top of the line $200 iem (timeless, yume midnight, kato, oh10, hana 2021, etc.) connected to a qudelix or a go blu. No eq is necessary and will have a much louder volume. Personally, this is my 1. option for music listening and 2. is probably the liberty 3 pro because it can connect to 2 phones that I have lol.


----------



## ElKabong

samandhi said:


> Since you have been on this thread for a while, you should know how picky I can be about IEMs/TWS, and I was pleasantly surprised at how good they are at what they are targeted to be. It is a niche market for these, because everyone (except me) wants ANC or at the very least passive noise isolation. And battery life is less than the average of TWS nowadays, but from completely dead it only took about 30-40 minutes (didn't time it exactly) to charge to full in the case. Now, the case does take a long time to charge, so if you use these daily, you might have to throw the case on the charger nightly, but I do this with my phone anyhow.
> 
> With the proper fit and adjustment (these COMPLETELY rely on proper adjustment, or they sound like crap hence the mixed reviews on the sound) they are plenty loud to drown out all but the loudest sounds IMHO. And tapping pretty much anywhere on your jaw (it works best to tap your cheek where it is fleshy, the tighter the skin the less it will vibrate and the harder you have to tap) controls them, which is probably one of my favorite features aside from the sound quality.
> 
> This coming from someone who has NEVER liked any Sony IEMs or TWS to this point. Granted, I use the built-in EQ (Bright setting for more airy treble), the stock setting isn't as dark as their normal house sound IMO. Bass is plenty of quantity, but sub bass is severely lacking, so if you like EDM, or R&B, or Rap, these might not do it for you, though it isn't horrible on those either. But, with Jazz, Rock, etc... it has plenty; it relies on a boosted mid + upper bass to make up the lack of sub-bass.


I bought a few different TWS buds, and the one thing i found was as you say, a proper fit for the eartips is a must, for me it is. The large tips on some were fine but others not so much.
I invested in some XL spintfit tips, made quite a difference. They will replace the tips on some of my iem's too. EQ does not hurt either.


----------



## samandhi

ElKabong said:


> I bought a few different TWS buds, and the one thing i found was as you say, a proper fit for the eartips is a must, for me it is. The large tips on some were fine but others not so much.
> I invested in some XL spintfit tips, made quite a difference. They will replace the tips on some of my iem's too. EQ does not hurt either.


The Linkbuds being a true earbud (flathead or classic earbuds), fit is even more paramount because they don't go in your ears at all. 

But you are absolutely correct, and there should be a fitment guide in all earphones for those that aren't familiar with tip rolling, and give up on them if they don't sound right out of the box. 

I have owned a very few IEMs/TWS that fit just right OOTB. Others I have had to use a size of tip that I would never have thought to fit. Other times I might use a tip that otherwise I didn't like with another set.


----------



## nekonhime

I just update my xm4 today, and if my ears have not falling yet, it sound better. Have not test the mic quality yet though.


----------



## pitch_black

At the FCC there is the mention of a Beoplay EX - will this be an earphone above or below the EQ, what you think?

https://fcc.report/FCC-ID/TTUBEOPLAYEXL/
https://fcc.report/FCC-ID/TTUBEOPLAYEXL/5717606.pdf


----------



## scubaphish

samandhi said:


> That is the system wide settings. I am talking about the in-app EQ settings in the linkbuds software (that would override system settings). It has been my experience that you can't do that in Apple eco-system unless you "jailbreak", unless something has changed since last I used iDevices. So, yes, you are stuck with those crappy pre-sets, and no custom ones.


In my experience with those TWS and wireless adapters (TW2) that have their own equalizer work together with iPhone. So long as they have an iOS app, the EQ settings have been available, eg Sony, AKG, Devialet.


----------



## tendou

Not so fat head said:


> Hi tendou,
> If you have a Marshals or TJ Max nearby, they usually have a good selection under $30..


Oh sorry I'm not being clear. Actually for listening to podcast or YouTube video only. I'm not making YouTube video or podcast.

So I want to get a tws with better isolation from outside sound and good voice clarity


----------



## jant71 (Mar 27, 2022)

dweaver said:


> So what do I mean by musicality? For me a big part of the musical experience is a sense of immersion into the music and this requires good spatial imaging that portrays music from coming all around me. I have not found any TWS capable of doing this to anything more than 50% of what a good IEM can accomplish. Next is seperation and room to breath again this is an area that all TWS struggle with being around 60% of what a good IEM can accomplish. Without this quality I find vocals lose their emotion and instruments don't have room convey their sound fully.


This. Why the LavaBeans with AT tips is my favorite TWS so far. Big, airy, love the separation and how it can be a bit holographic. Vocals show a good bit cause they really separate the vocalists. Guitar and bass lines stand out as do the back up vocals(maybe even a bit more than intended). Also the first I have heard that does really well against compression using only SBC.


----------



## starfly

Anyone suspect the coming Sennheiser Momentum TWS 3 will be any good? 

Recently got the XM4, but unsure about the fit (hurts cartilage in my ears during extended wear, which can be somewhat alleviated by twisting forward slightly, but then they really stick out). 

I just picked up the Buds Pro for $140 (great deal), but haven't opened package yet. Reading mixed things about comfort, and battery life doesn't appear to be the best. 

Wondering if I should try waiting for the Sennheiser.


----------



## ElKabong

samandhi said:


> The Linkbuds being a true earbud (flathead or classic earbuds), fit is even more paramount because they don't go in your ears at all.
> 
> But you are absolutely correct, and there should be a fitment guide in all earphones for those that aren't familiar with tip rolling, and give up on them if they don't sound right out of the box.
> 
> I have owned a very few IEMs/TWS that fit just right OOTB. Others I have had to use a size of tip that I would never have thought to fit. Other times I might use a tip that otherwise I didn't like with another set.


If i get some new iem's or tws, the first thing i do is change the tips, the installed ones are generally too small, guess i have big ears. I have a huge stash of unused ear tips. Can't throw anything away.


----------



## Not so fat head

starfly said:


> Anyone suspect the coming Sennheiser Momentum TWS 3 will be any good?
> 
> Recently got the XM4, but unsure about the fit (hurts cartilage in my ears during extended wear, which can be somewhat alleviated by twisting forward slightly, but then they really stick out).
> 
> ...


One of the big reasons to buy the M2’s, is their ability to store your equalizer settings on the buds themselves…
All music going forward will have your ideal EQ set in hardware…
👍


----------



## Not so fat head

Btw, the M3 over ears do this too..
Same chip set I believe, not 100% sure though..


----------



## assassin10000

starfly said:


> Anyone suspect the coming Sennheiser Momentum TWS 3 will be any good?
> 
> Recently got the XM4, but unsure about the fit (hurts cartilage in my ears during extended wear, which can be somewhat alleviated by twisting forward slightly, but then they really stick out).
> 
> ...



Try an extra short tip?

I use decored app foam tips on my xm4. I also slightly rotate forward of what I originally thought was the correct position.

Brings them in and are way more comfortable for me. I do have smaller and short ear canals.


----------



## Skylos (Mar 27, 2022)

For what it's worth... I bought my first pair of wireless earbuds (Senn. M2) this year. I found that turning off EQs clears up the sound by taking out extra processing. However, this market is saturated with bass-centric buds. Although the M2 has a high-range treble extension, it's obviously trying to make up for the lack of mid-range clarity that's kind of muddied by the bass. They're great for bass-heavy tracks, but Sennheiser didn't achieve anything groundbreaking here. It's a very "mainstream" market still, IMO.


----------



## erockg

erockg said:


> There's some new TWS from B&O coming called the Beoplay EX.  Some speculate a sport version.  No pics out there yet.


I mentioned it a few dozen pages back   Finger on the pulse over here


----------



## potix (Mar 27, 2022)

nekonhime said:


> I just update my xm4 today, and if my ears have not falling yet, it sound better. Have not test the mic quality yet though.


The bass response is different, now it's more punchy and less bloated. Overall something else might be changed, there is a bit more air and clarity. Not sure about that but good quality recordings are sounding slightly better to my ears. I'm using LDAC as before the update.


----------



## nekonhime

potix said:


> The bass response is different, now it's more punchy and less bloated. Overall something else might be changed, there is a bit more air and clarity. Not sure about that but good quality recordings are sounding slightly better to my ears. I'm using LDAC as before the update.


Same here, I feel like the xm4 have become the mix of warmness of the mw08 and the open space of the t5II anc which I am appreciate.


----------



## Caipirina

erockg said:


> 1MORE Comfobuds Mini are TINY!  Thankfully, Sound ID is incorporated in the 1More app.  Not like the Grell.  Works well.  ANC is not the greatest but impressive considering the price.  I'll be testing them out for a few days.  If ANC works this well, they might be a good sleeping pair.  Case has Qi charging.  Volume controls, play/pause on the buds. You can't toggle between ANC and Transparency by a touch and hole on the buds.


Have you made up your mind yet on the sound quality on those guys? It is difficult to judge the (shill?) reviews on youtube, which suspiciously keep talking about SQ to all the way to the end ... then saying things like 'after going through sound ID there the best bass ever' or vague like 'my kind of sound sig' ... 

I just hate how AliExpress' gamification keeps drawing me in ... instead of 99$, now with sale and coupons and codes I get it to just below 59$ ... and I am very triggered by that small form factor ... I wish there were some reviews like Kenneth Tanaka on the Fiil T1 Lite "just get them, best SQ evah!"


----------



## regancipher

samandhi said:


> Since you have been on this thread for a while, you should know how picky I can be about IEMs/TWS, and I was pleasantly surprised at how good they are at what they are targeted to be. It is a niche market for these, because everyone (except me) wants ANC or at the very least passive noise isolation. And battery life is less than the average of TWS nowadays, but from completely dead it only took about 30-40 minutes (didn't time it exactly) to charge to full in the case. Now, the case does take a long time to charge, so if you use these daily, you might have to throw the case on the charger nightly, but I do this with my phone anyhow.
> 
> With the proper fit and adjustment (these COMPLETELY rely on proper adjustment, or they sound like crap hence the mixed reviews on the sound) they are plenty loud to drown out all but the loudest sounds IMHO. And tapping pretty much anywhere on your jaw (it works best to tap your cheek where it is fleshy, the tighter the skin the less it will vibrate and the harder you have to tap) controls them, which is probably one of my favorite features aside from the sound quality.
> 
> This coming from someone who has NEVER liked any Sony IEMs or TWS to this point. Granted, I use the built-in EQ (Bright setting for more airy treble), the stock setting isn't as dark as their normal house sound IMO. Bass is plenty of quantity, but sub bass is severely lacking, so if you like EDM, or R&B, or Rap, these might not do it for you, though it isn't horrible on those either. But, with Jazz, Rock, etc... it has plenty; it relies on a boosted mid + upper bass to make up the lack of sub-bass.


Agree with all that. I've never been a fan of Sony until the Linkbuds either. Very frustrating seeing reviews from people like 'Max Tech' who doesn't even have them sat in his ears properly. 

Sony are pretty clear in the documentation that you need to try different wings to get the right sound. Otherwise they'd have done what Samsung did and included no wings!


----------



## erockg

Caipirina said:


> Have you made up your mind yet on the sound quality on those guys? It is difficult to judge the (shill?) reviews on youtube, which suspiciously keep talking about SQ to all the way to the end ... then saying things like 'after going through sound ID there the best bass ever' or vague like 'my kind of sound sig' ...
> 
> I just hate how AliExpress' gamification keeps drawing me in ... instead of 99$, now with sale and coupons and codes I get it to just below 59$ ... and I am very triggered by that small form factor ... I wish there were some reviews like Kenneth Tanaka on the Fiil T1 Lite "just get them, best SQ evah!"


The cheaper you can get them the better the value IMO.  They sound find for the size, but we all have so many better options in our collections.  That said, they do jam pack them with features a lot of other buds do not have for a higher price.  The one problem I have with them is the fit.  I don't like the tips and didn't find anything in my collection that works well with them and also fit in the case.  I've heard the great ones, these are definitely not the best sound, but for the size and price they do a very good job.  I wish I paid $59 and not $85 plus tax here in the US!


----------



## alleroy

erockg said:


> The cheaper you can get them the better the value IMO.  They sound find for the size, but we all have so many better options in our collections.  That said, they do jam pack them with features a lot of other buds do not have for a higher price.  The one problem I have with them is the fit.  I don't like the tips and didn't find anything in my collection that works well with them and also fit in the case.  I've heard the great ones, these are definitely not the best sound, but for the size and price they do a very good job.  I wish I paid $59 and not $85 plus tax here in the US!



Since in EU the lowest price I can get from Aliexpress is 77€, that at present rate change corresponds to almost 85$ I think I will at least wait and see. I was interested in them mainly for side sleeping use in a noisy environment, but maybe I could instead give a chance to a cheap Bluetooth headband...


----------



## Luke Skywalker

erockg said:


> These Noble Falcon ANC buds are finally up: https://www.nobleaudio.com/wireless/p/falcon-anc


Awesome thanks.  Just ordered


----------



## Luke Skywalker

erockg said:


> HAD.  Devialet for sound, the Technics Az60 for everything else IMO.  Although the ANC on the Gemini is pretty dang good.


I love everything about the Devialet except for the fit… they don’t stay very securely in my ears and I get a popping sound if I chew food or hit the treadmill 

but the sound… oh my… only my B&O EQ sound that good


----------



## Luke Skywalker

erockg said:


> Noble Fokus Pro for the best sounding TWS in my house.  Love them.  Then we amp it up to the IEMs, Thieaudio Monarch MK2 and Legacy 4s on adapters.  I have a few other TWS but small ones not geared for _best_ sound.  Here's my current lineup.  No wild hairs this week for anything new... YET!


I wonder if the new Noble Falcon ANC will sound as good as the Fokus Pro?


----------



## Luke Skywalker

Ceeluh7 said:


> Z7 is flat out one of the best tws iems for sound quality. For the price it is ridiculous how capable the drivers are in this set. I've had these for over 6 months maybe more. I think if you want better sound in the tws world you'd have to look at the Fokus model by Noble and maybe the EQ (please note that this is my opinion). I have gotten rid of most of the big hitters out there (Gemini, Sony wf1000xm4, AZ60, Grado Gt220, Liberty 3 Pro, etc etc) in favor of the Z7. Although there are a few I have yet to try but the Z7 does compete well. So please take into consideration that I haven't heard everything out there and I'm sure some sets can do well against this set for SQ. I care about sound quality over everything else. I don't care about anc or a good ambient mode... However, that being said the Z7 also lacks anc and have an ambient mode that leaves alot to be desired. It has a nice app which gives you pretty good control as well. The Z7 react very well to an equalizer as these drivers just seem to take whatever you throw at them without distortion and the Z7 just have awesome control over the whole spectrum and extend really low. Just like the Tevi/Z3 the Z7 have more sub bass than mid bass (which I like) and have good extension up top. I think they get 11 hrs battery on the Buds. Another few things to note; the case is rather large, granted you get 70 hrs with the thing and also the Z7 are quite large themselves and stick out of the ear a bit. Also they are push button rather than touch. I can't say anything bad about the Z7. The tuning is almost a slightly airier Final Audio tuning but with EQ the these can change significantly. One last thing, I really believe the Titanium Driver in this set needs a good 50 hrs (at the very least) burn-in or listen-in and they may require different tips.


I wish the Z7 had ANC. Noisy baby in the house so that’s kind of a deal breaker for me


----------



## Luke Skywalker

cresny said:


> Ok, that's a little harsh... But I bike everywhere so what do I know?


I’ve never been on a subway. Sounds like I’m not missing much


----------



## Luke Skywalker

xuan87 said:


> I'll recommend you look at the Marshall Mode II.


Do you have the Marshall’s my friend?  How’s the ANC?


----------



## BooleanBones

Luke Skywalker said:


> I wonder if the new Noble Falcon ANC will sound as good as the Fokus Pro?


It would surprise me if they did. The Falcons are a bit of an all arounder where the Fokus are designed all around SQ. Hard to say though without listening to them.


----------



## xuan87

Luke Skywalker said:


> Do you have the Marshall’s my friend?  How’s the ANC?


I have both the Mode II and the Motif.

The Mode II does not have ANC, while the Motif is the only Marshall TWS to have ANC. I haven't done any serious testing of the ANC but in general, I find it to be above average. I mostly use the Motif with the ANC switched on.


----------



## Juturna

I haven't been on here for quite a few weeks now I think, and the only answer as to why... is that I'm so pleased with my Technics AZ60 that I haven't bothered trying to find anything else new to purchase. 
I'm curious to hear the verdict on the Sennheiser MTW3 vs AZ60, but I think I prefer the AZ60 vs the Sennheiser MTW2 sound-wise anyway. 

The thing I just love about the AZ60 is that I rarely think about the sound much, the music just sounds kinda like I expect it to.
I know that there are even better sound experiences out there, but none that are worth it right now, especially since I can't get my hands on the Fokus Pros or anything like that, and otherwise it's the B&O EQs that are still way too expensive in my opinion.  

I still want to upgrade to something new and shiny soon-ish, but I'm almost a bit happy that I don't see anything worth upgrading to right now.


----------



## C_Lindbergh (Mar 29, 2022)

Juturna said:


> I haven't been on here for quite a few weeks now I think, and the only answer as to why... is that I'm so pleased with my Technics AZ60 that I haven't bothered trying to find anything else new to purchase.
> I'm curious to hear the verdict on the Sennheiser MTW3 vs AZ60, but I think I prefer the AZ60 vs the Sennheiser MTW2 sound-wise anyway.
> 
> The thing I just love about the AZ60 is that I rarely think about the sound much, the music just sounds kinda like I expect it to.
> ...



I feel you, I've also been very happy with my AZ60! Hopefully Panasonic will launch a new version later this year  I really only "need" LE audio and wireless charging, further refinements to sound quality/comfort would also be welcome ofc.

The thing with the AZ60 is...They just tick almost every box , most TWS have 1 or more big flaws.

-SQ is pretty good (especially for the price)
-Touch controls works flawlessly (+customizable)
-The case is tiny (also great shape/materials)
- Switching between ANC/Transperecny mode is flawless (pause music option ftw)
-ANC is great
- The App is one of the better ones
-Comfort is decent
-Competitive price
-Multipoint

They are really the first overall flawless TWS in my opinion, I really only miss wireless charging. I'm sure BO EQ/Fokus Pro sounds better, but they are in no way as overall great as the AZ60.

The addition of LE audio would also be welcome ofc once LC3/LC3+ becomes more prevalent.


----------



## jant71

Luke Skywalker said:


> I wonder if the new Noble Falcon ANC will sound as good as the Fokus Pro?


No wonder really. We know that they won't. Just in general from price. $169 vs. $349 and they will sound as good plus have ANC? Also hopefully Noble can give us something with three drivers that couldn't have just been done with a single dynamic. That is more what KZ does.  As has been said from the name we know. Falcon line is the lesser line so why make it a Falcon model if it is better than the Falcon range.


----------



## hssong85

I have been having trouble with TWS. I have gone through Sony WF1000XM4, buds pro, qcys, lypertek tevi. Problem is ear pressure. I have been using IEM for years but I am having this issues with TWS only.

Any suggestion on TWS with some pressure vent other than Airpods?


----------



## Luke Skywalker

jant71 said:


> No wonder really. We know that they won't. Just in general from price. $169 vs. $349 and they will sound as good plus have ANC? Also hopefully Noble can give us something with three drivers that couldn't have just been done with a single dynamic. That is more what KZ does.  As has been said from the name we know. Falcon line is the lesser line so why make it a Falcon model if it is better than the Falcon range.


Hmm… wondering if I should cancel the ANC order.  But who knows, maybe they’ll be superior to my current TWS favorites - B&O EQ and Gemini? 

i like the Klipsch T5 II Mcclaren but i have this annoying issue where the case starts beeping if the charge goes below a certain level. It will not stop until you plug in the case or put it on a wireless charger 

I’ll probably pick up the Nuratrue too


----------



## jant71

Luke Skywalker said:


> Hmm… wondering if I should cancel the ANC order.  But who knows, maybe they’ll be superior to my current TWS favorites - B&O EQ and Gemini?
> 
> i like the Klipsch T5 II Mcclaren but i have this annoying issue where the case starts beeping if the charge goes below a certain level. It will not stop until you plug in the case or put it on a wireless charger
> 
> I’ll probably pick up the Nuratrue too




I think my N6Pro 2 case started beeping one day and I wondered what the hell was going on. Never heard about that happening. At least it was that one time for whatever reason. 

I think at least one person has the EQ and Fokus Pro. They can chime in with some idea to make a guesstimate.


----------



## Luke Skywalker

jant71 said:


> I think my N6Pro 2 case started beeping one day and I wondered what the hell was going on. Never heard about that happening. At least it was that one time for whatever reason.
> 
> I think at least one person has the EQ and Fokus Pro. They can chime in with some idea to make a guesstimate.


Awesome thanks!  I’m not sure when the Falcon ANCs will arrive but I’ll let you guys know what I think.

I’m probably going to pick up the Fiio UTSW5. not sure what I’ll pair them with though. A guy on another thread suggested perhaps the Thieaudio Monarch MkII based on my musical tastes 

https://www.audiophileon.com/news/theaudio-monarch-mkii-review/


----------



## BooleanBones

Luke Skywalker said:


> I’m probably going to pick up the Fiio UTSW5. not sure what I’ll pair them with though. A guy on another thread suggested perhaps the Thieaudio Monarch MkII based on my musical tastes
> 
> https://www.audiophileon.com/news/theaudio-monarch-mkii-review/


I believe that is what @erockg is using for an iem/adapter setup at the moment. 

With regards to Fokus/EQs, I have the Fokus and had both the EQs and Geminis before. For sound capabilities, the Fokus win but have no real features to them in comparison to the other two. It will be interesting to see how you compare the the Falcons to the EQ and Geminis.


----------



## rarewolf

Forgive me for not search this entire thread for the information, and for being a newb, but…

I’ve been reading about Qualcomm’s technology for lossless CD quality over Bluetooth, but I’m still in a quandry as to how exactly it will finally come about. Will the source of the audio stream (e.g., smartphone) AND the Bluetooth receiver (e.g., Bluetooth DAC/Amp dongle) both be required to have the Qualcomm hardware installed? Any possibility at all of the source only needing a firmware update?


----------



## nekonhime

rarewolf said:


> Forgive me for not search this entire thread for the information, and for being a newb, but…
> 
> I’ve been reading about Qualcomm’s technology for lossless CD quality over Bluetooth, but I’m still in a quandry as to how exactly it will finally come about. Will the source of the audio stream (e.g., smartphone) AND the Bluetooth receiver (e.g., Bluetooth DAC/Amp dongle) both be required to have the Qualcomm hardware installed? Any possibility at all of the source only needing a firmware update?


I will say you should wait until next year for the technology to be adapted in the main stream. The lossless one should be including in the Bluetooth 5.3 which possibility will come out at 4th quarter.


----------



## rarewolf

nekonhime said:


> I will say you should wait until next year for the technology to be adapted in the main stream. The lossless one should be including in the Bluetooth 5.3 which possibility will come out at 4th quarter.



I wasn’t concerned with “when”. I’m concerned with how much I’m going to have to spend whenever “when” comes around…


----------



## nekonhime (Mar 29, 2022)

rarewolf said:


> I wasn’t concerned with “when”. I’m concerned with how much I’m going to have to spend whenever “when” comes around…


Gonna be goddamn expensive lol like the premium price of 150 and above. Also, you should have a comparable phone to fully benefits from it too.


----------



## Ceeluh7

Luke Skywalker said:


> I wish the Z7 had ANC. Noisy baby in the house so that’s kind of a deal breaker for me


Gotcha. If anc is important to you than I could see why. I will say that any anc out thier in the tws world may not attenuate the sound of a baby crying... Lol. I hear you though. Z7 has some of the best passive noise isolation I've ever encountered, however that is for me and maybe not the next guy. I hope you find what you are looking for man


----------



## Luke Skywalker

Ceeluh7 said:


> Gotcha. If anc is important to you than I could see why. I will say that any anc out thier in the tws world may not attenuate the sound of a baby crying... Lol. I hear you though. Z7 has some of the best passive noise isolation I've ever encountered, however that is for me and maybe not the next guy. I hope you find what you are looking for man


Ha yeah. It’s amazing how such a small human can generate so much noise!!


----------



## jant71

https://www-phileweb-com.translate....1.html?_x_tr_sl=ja&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en-US

So far so good. Sounds good for the things that I thought they looked good for. Fit seems interesting...




...but guess I will see how it works for me Thursday.


----------



## stacey

I went ahead and pre-ordered the A&Ks. Hopefully the PNI and sound quality is as good as they hype it up to be. I’m just using them as my i4 + Bluetooth Cipher are just terrible SQ and 0 isolation. Makes taking calls a near impossibility in anything other than a quiet room.


----------



## futaki

hi. I don't expect high resolution from any wireless buds but i want to ask, is there any model close to the neutral frequency curve?


----------



## samandhi

futaki said:


> hi. I don't expect high resolution from any wireless buds but i want to ask, is there any model close to the neutral frequency curve?


Other than the Sony Linkbuds, I haven't bought any TWS this year, but the Nuarl N6 Pro are VERY neutral, and I would also add that they don't really sound limited by the lack of high-resolution codec at all (it uses regular AptX). I would argue that if you like neutral, these might be the best ones I have heard to date. Not like there are a ton of them out there though. Most concentrate on boosted bass at the very least, or the Harmon curve. I would assume that the N6 Pro 2 and other newer models probably improve on this???


----------



## xuan87

jant71 said:


> No wonder really. We know that they won't. Just in general from price. $169 vs. $349 and they will sound as good plus have ANC? Also hopefully Noble can give us something with three drivers that couldn't have just been done with a single dynamic. That is more what KZ does.  As has been said from the name we know. Falcon line is the lesser line so why make it a Falcon model if it is better than the Falcon range.



Isn't KZ's style more to stuff 3 drivers inside, but only 1 is actually hooked up and in use while the other two are for looks? Lol


----------



## wakokokoyz (Mar 29, 2022)

quick comparison between sony wf-c500 and technics az60.
i had the former for about a month before switching to the latter.
i personally dont eq my stuff with the exception of TWS.
i dont use anc

c500 is warmer (still neautral-ish with the right eq), more holographic and more engaging. i can easily be in the music with this. it didn't fit me well
az60 (early impressions; 2days use) is a bit more detailed, brighter, less holographic and less engaging. but not to the point where id prefer c500 over it (with the exception of c500 holographic capability). i needed to (-2) 100hz from these. they fit me better. touch controls are heaven sent.

mic is lousy on c500 but i rarely use calls and can be easily solved by taking out 1 bud and putting the mic closer to your mouth.


----------



## erockg

Luke Skywalker said:


> I wonder if the new Noble Falcon ANC will sound as good as the Fokus Pro?


I don’t think so. The Falcons have a lesser driver set up than the Fokus.


----------



## iamhajemi

new qcy t18 is on sale on aliexpress 🙄


----------



## regancipher

alleroy said:


> Since in EU the lowest price I can get from Aliexpress is 77€, that at present rate change corresponds to almost 85$ I think I will at least wait and see. I was interested in them mainly for side sleeping use in a noisy environment, but maybe I could instead give a chance to a cheap Bluetooth headband...


Yeah I'm gonna pass on these too. 1More have gone away from that signature sound they had with their earlier releases recently (even though when you listen back, it's pretty trash, at least they had good intentions given the limitations!) and become just another vendor, certainly not befitting of their MSRP prices. 

The shill reviews are tiresome too. I had one vendor cross the line, again, a while ago trying to put words in my mouth. The number of vendors prepared to send me stuff which I review on my terms is rapidly shrinking to a donut shaped number so everything is out my own pocket, and you can go swivel if you think I'm gonna spend £70 on earbuds that will be £50 in a month or two.

Buying through AliExpress is getting increasingly tough too. I just had a set of kbear ks1 arrive yesterday, I ordered them maybe last year?! Taken five months (and pointless videos of faults they never even watched) to get $75 refund approved for FIIL CC PRO, was approved two weeks ago still no sign of the funds.... The search is becoming a bit boring now


----------



## Caipirina

iamhajemi said:


> new qcy t18 is on sale on aliexpress 🙄


everything is on sale right now on AliExpress


----------



## Jon995

Hi everyone, just wanted to share information here from the Sony WF-1000XM4 impressions thread.

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/sony-wf-1000xm4-impressions-thread.958184/page-154#post-16889575

Other than that problem which Sony are working on fixing with firmware update I'm very impressed with them, and releived I don't have to return them. 

I didn't hear their sound signature before the last update but after the first day using EQ to brighten the sound I left EQ off last night, brain burn in set in fast and they don't sound too dark at all and have enough detail. Last week I was using my LG Tone Free FP9 (stock tips) and there was MORE bass than the Sony's (stock foams). I had to use the bass reduction EQ in wavelet because I was getting headaches.. This coming from someone who owns the Skullcandy Crusher Evo. Although maybe it was a combination of their bass and pressure from the ANC causing the headaches. Anyone here with the FP9 try different tips?


----------



## darveniza

Jon995 said:


> Hi everyone, just wanted to share information here from the Sony WF-1000XM4 impressions thread.
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/sony-wf-1000xm4-impressions-thread.958184/page-154#post-16889575
> 
> ...


Call quality still not the best and continue to wait for it to hopefully  perform at a higher level, people on phone calls and Zoom/Teams have shown that Linkbuds quality for calls is improved over the XM4 at least in office settings


----------



## stacey

darveniza said:


> Call quality still not the best and continue to wait for it to hopefully  perform at a higher level, people on phone calls and Zoom/Teams have shown that Linkbuds quality for calls is improved over the XM4 at least in office settings


Everyone is a step below in terms of call quality from Apple. If call quality is a priority just get the AirPods Pro.


----------



## BooleanBones

stacey said:


> Everyone is a step below in terms of call quality from Apple. If call quality is a priority just get the AirPods Pro.


I think so too. The APP are tough to beat on calls. I did come across some Soundcore frames the other day and they work really good for calls if you don't want something stuffed in the ears. Not sure I would pay their asking price and definitely won't be listening to music on them, but they are great for calls.


----------



## Jon995

Call quality? Go to 8:50 this video 😏


----------



## BooleanBones

This is something I never thought I'd see in headphones. Air purification 

https://www.dyson.com/wearables/dyson-zone-air-purifying-headphones/announcement


----------



## Toom

BooleanBones said:


> This is something I never thought I'd see in headphones. Air purification
> 
> https://www.dyson.com/wearables/dyson-zone-air-purifying-headphones/announcement


F*ck Dyson - Brexiteer scumbag.


----------



## Not so fat head

Since I have the XM3’s, I’ll wait for under $200 to upgrade…
Maybe Black Friday??


----------



## nekonhime

Not so fat head said:


> Since I have the XM3’s, I’ll wait for under $200 to upgrade…
> Maybe Black Friday??


Or second hand or just hunt for a new one like me (180 for a new xm4) (210 for b&o eq new)


----------



## jant71 (Mar 30, 2022)

First impression things to mention....
- Mics are good so ambient and calls are indeed a high point. Ambient very clean with no noise.

-Case is a bit tall but still contacts and charges with even the longer core Sedna Earfit on them.

-Handsome and good fit. They do indeed lock in at the bottom w/o the need for fins.

- Gives you the battery life upon insertion and connecting and such is a pleasant sounding lady. Volume top and bottom notches are beeps while ambient is a distinct clunk or gong sound to differentiate.

- Stock tips are smaller bore and tapered a bit so the medium is a bit small. Match the color perfect but I already ditched them for blue JVC in the fourth pic above which are wider in the front.

- Early sound report is so far so good. Notable standouts are the balance and the extension on both ends seems very nice. Quick A/B vs. the CKS50 with favorite tips and screens removed for clarity goes to the Yamaha for a truer tone and better clarity. The "True Sound" does seem to have some nice life like realism(cymbals are a). Sounds a bit like a better N6 Pro 2 though that is from memory.

- Really like that there are no holds for basic use operations. Two quick presses for FF, RW, and ambient.


----------



## regancipher (Mar 30, 2022)

Linkbuds are pretty damn good for calls.

My 28 TWS test is getting a refresh soon with the LinkBuds, Soundpeats Mini Pro, OnePlus Buds Pro and a few others added, here it is for now in case anyone is interested. Better performers were Edifier NeoBuds Pro, Elevoc Clear and, surprisingly, Taotronics Soundliberty 80:



Incidentally, both the Linkbuds and the Buds Pro will be up there amongst the best of them once I've finished the editing (I got COVID about a week ago unfortunately so everything has been on hold while I try and remember how to get out of bed!)


----------



## Not so fat head

Hope you feel better soon 👍


----------



## Ceeluh7

jant71 said:


> First impression things to mention....
> - Mics are good so ambient and calls are indeed a high point. Ambient very clean with no noise.
> 
> -Case is a bit tall but still contacts and charges with even the longer core Sedna Earfit on them.
> ...


Very nice man. Appreciate the Mini write up on these.


----------



## Caipirina

regancipher said:


> Yeah I'm gonna pass on these too. 1More have gone away from that signature sound they had with their earlier releases recently (even though when you listen back, it's pretty trash, at least they had good intentions given the limitations!) and become just another vendor, certainly not befitting of their MSRP prices.
> 
> The shill reviews are tiresome too. I had one vendor cross the line, again, a while ago trying to put words in my mouth. The number of vendors prepared to send me stuff which I review on my terms is rapidly shrinking to a donut shaped number so everything is out my own pocket, and you can go swivel if you think I'm gonna spend £70 on earbuds that will be £50 in a month or two.
> 
> Buying through AliExpress is getting increasingly tough too. I just had a set of kbear ks1 arrive yesterday, I ordered them maybe last year?! Taken five months (and pointless videos of faults they never even watched) to get $75 refund approved for FIIL CC PRO, was approved two weeks ago still no sign of the funds.... The search is becoming a bit boring now


I agree that AliExpress is not really viable anymore .. besides taking too long, if there is something wrong now, sellers try everything to get around refunding .. .I had such a hard time with my KZ set, which never got resolved, and since too much time had passed from the initial 'receipt' date, AE gave me NO way to reopen dispute ... and well, I accepted that I was effed on this one ...  different one, son ordered a phone case, they sent wrong one, they admit they did wrong, so they want him to confirm receipt and order a new one and 'promise' they will change the price to 0.01 after he orders ... even if the did, if they then send nothing, we can only dispute that new 0.01 order, not the original ... 
Bottom line, it was a fun, wild ride before it went down the crapper ... and honestly, looking at AE, there's just way too much plastic crap being manufactured, way more than this planet ever needs ... will end up in landfill somehow ...


----------



## dweaver

jant71 said:


> First impression things to mention....
> - Mics are good so ambient and calls are indeed a high point. Ambient very clean with no noise.
> 
> -Case is a bit tall but still contacts and charges with even the longer core Sedna Earfit on them.
> ...


How is the imaging and 3D aspect of the IEM? I like the idea of the EQ adjustments at lower volumes.


----------



## gimmeshelter (Mar 31, 2022)

I've just bought the liberty pro 3 and they are excellent overall.

However I can't get them to stay in my left ear even with the largest wings on the buds. I've also tried a few different size tips.

What's an alternative with similar features / sound but a better fit?

Two things I can live without are ANC and Call Quality.


----------



## jant71 (Mar 31, 2022)

dweaver said:


> How is the imaging and 3D aspect of the IEM? I like the idea of the EQ adjustments at lower volumes.


I think they have good separation in amount. Nice space and they do seem quite wide. A bit wider than tall on the presentation. You'd want, as usual to use wider bore tips to add to the height. Height is fine just the width is top notch. Depth is good. Had the Nuarl which are good for a big sound, the CKS50TW is good for a big sound, and the LavaBeans are quite spacious. Hard to doubt the new Yammy aren't up there with the better ones esp. with their treble extension. Notes are nicely 3D. I do want to run them in more and test them out with more files and devices and see my final rating of how holographic they can be.

Really quite the things with their accurate tone though. Can't compare them like I do with some others. Of course I can but the Yamaha is in a higher league as far as real sounding. Better width and extension with a higher quality treble makes the other stuff sound off now. Artificial up top and stunted. Makes the tip rolling quite interesting and are quite responsive to EQ.

People did love that aspect of the EPH100, the 3D nature. Had them on loan way too long ago but would love to hear a comparison if an owner bought these. I suspect they were going the same way with these.


----------



## hifihov

Galaxy Buds+ Issue.

Hi All,

The buds have been perfect for 1 and a ½ years, and now have an incurable balance issue. The LHS bud is 80 to 90% quieter than the left, and have followed this post https://eu.community.samsung.com/t5/wearables/galaxy-buds-volume-and-balance-issue/td-p/1041670 to resolve the issue but with no luck.

I have reset many times, unpaired from devices, tried toggling the call audio settings etc, but no improvement.

Tis driving me mad!

What I think has happened, while only wearing the left, is by touching the left, its reduced the volume setting for the left only, and it’s impossible to increase the volume, as that’s only possible on the RHS bud…

Ta!


----------



## jant71

hifihov said:


> Galaxy Buds+ Issue.
> 
> Hi All,
> 
> ...


Did you try the blow or suck to try and loosen a collapsed diaphragm thing or the cleaning or filter stuff mentioned there? It might be a physical thing that some seem to have cured or it could just be the driver is broken where it can't be fixed.

If they are being reset the volume should go back to even on both sides and whatever level it was out of the box.


----------



## erockg

BooleanBones said:


> This is something I never thought I'd see in headphones. Air purification
> 
> https://www.dyson.com/wearables/dyson-zone-air-purifying-headphones/announcement


They’re vacuums are a godsend with a toddler!


----------



## jant71

erockg said:


> They’re vacuums are a godsend with a toddler!


Do I have to call the authorities?? There are child labor laws you know.




 I guess it is never too early to learn the value of a days work.


----------



## erockg

jant71 said:


> Do I have to call the authorities?? There are child labor laws you know.
> 
> I guess it is never too early to learn the value of a days work.


Start ‘em young!


----------



## jant71

Got a basic case size comparison...



TW-E5b case is about 2" tall and 2.5" wide. 

Tip rolling is a hoot. The buds fit a certain way and lock in so they keep near the same depth so some tips just like the stock medium might not seal as well as they can since you can't push them in more. Most tips really sound good but different. Haven't gone through many but not as easy here to discard.

Didn't take very long for them to clean up on the sound. I think the bass may take more time but not much run in proved to up the detail and show more clarity. 

So far excellent and another level toward wired sounding. These will be well regarded.


----------



## BobJS

BooleanBones said:


> This is something I never thought I'd see in headphones. Air purification
> 
> https://www.dyson.com/wearables/dyson-zone-air-purifying-headphones/announcement




If I didn't know better (and I don't really), I'd point out that April Fools is tomorrow ...


----------



## BobJS

... Speaking of which, might be a good time to pick up a 1x1 Rubiks Cube.  Lots of fun.


----------



## nekonhime

BooleanBones said:


> This is something I never thought I'd see in headphones. Air purification
> 
> https://www.dyson.com/wearables/dyson-zone-air-purifying-headphones/announcement


Next we will have soul purify headphones lol


----------



## nekonhime

jant71 said:


> Got a basic case size comparison...
> 
> TW-E5b case is about 2" tall and 2.5" wide.
> 
> ...


How do you compare the yamaha to the cks50 and the az60 in sq, anc and mic quality?


----------



## jant71

nekonhime said:


> How do you compare the yamaha to the cks50 and the az60 in sq, anc and mic quality?


I bought the AT instead of the AZ60 since I have some devices that don't do LDAC but only aptX codecs. So, I can't tell you about Technics. The Yamaha can have quite good passive isolation but they are just about the SQ and only do ambient and make calls. They are not an ANC model which is fine as that keeps the AT with a job to do.  I'm assuming, like the first "A" series the E7B would be the ANC model. Doesn't exist yet though.

 The Yammy edges slightly in ambient and calls over the AT.  SQ goes to the Yamaha as does ease of use. Controls are easier to use. I can connect the AT to my Cowon, for instance, and then the Yamaha connects right after. If I try to connect the AT after the Yamaha I have to bring up the device list and choose the CKS50 to connect the AT again. Unless you shut the voice prompts off the Yamaha is less chatty with no play/pause announcement, only "battery high" instead of battery level high" and "link lost" instead of "disconnected".  Both are 5 series and about the same price. The AT is coming out right now in the US as well. Both are good but the Yamaha are for the SQ and the low level listening feature plus ease of fit and use while the AT would be better for ANC and battery life.


----------



## gimmeshelter

Think I'm going to return the Liberty Pro 3 and get the Fiio UTWS5 and just use my existing IEM's. I think the behind the ear fit may suit me better.


----------



## jant71

Saw this video which compare the Yamaha to the ZE3000 a bit...


Call quality sounds to me like a win for the Yamaha. You can hear the treble thing as being more extended but it kinda sounds like it might when I use the medium stock tips and don't have a good seal. They didn't seem to do it right as they do have balance but are not thin like that. Just using them outside and in the store and very fun and sounds good with enough bass. I would say they would be closer to neutral than the ZE3000 but even with no EQ I find they have bass presence and and some feel. I can hear that they would do the same thing to the ZE3000 as far as treble reach thing and the Final would be stunted and not reach as high.

Think the stock tips need to be ditched depending on your desired sound.







There is a channel in the tube that leads to a vent in the actual tube. Same principal as the James444 front bass mod where here cuts a piece of tip and lays it on the tube and the tip goes on making holes to lessen bass amount. Testing this out, the stock tips, while being narrower at the front which lessen the seal and bass they seem to be front bore venting pressure away for more bass control.

Investigating even further reveals...



...a concave rim instead of a flat one so pushing the tip on all the way still tries to to keep that channel free.

So, if you like neutral you can use the stock tips, get the right amount(for me) with better tips for slight warmth, or stuff or tape that front tube hole for more bass. I have not tested that out to see just how much.  Stock tips are still better than that video makes them seem. Same thing happened with the KEF MU3 in a video that made those seem lacking bass more than the real story.

Anyhow testing and figuring them out so I can talk about them with the correct knowledge.


----------



## dweaver

gimmeshelter said:


> Think I'm going to return the Liberty Pro 3 and get the Fiio UTWS5 and just use my existing IEM's. I think the behind the ear fit may suit me better.


I finally caved and bought a good IEM Fiio FH5 and the UTWS5 and now rarely use my actual TWS anymore. The over ear design is pretty comfy and if you have comfy IEMs they become really hard to beat as a combo. If you have a favorite IEM already it also save you having to find its TWS comparable...


----------



## logiatype

dweaver said:


> I finally caved and bought a good IEM Fiio FH5 and the UTWS5 and now rarely use my actual TWS anymore. The over ear design is pretty comfy and if you have comfy IEMs they become really hard to beat as a combo. If you have a favorite IEM already it also save you having to find its TWS comparable...


Anyone use these with glasses?


----------



## dweaver

I wear glasses all the time. No issues for me.


----------



## erockg

Hmm.  Falcon ANC kinda big 

https://www.instagram.com/p/CbxcGv6u0gL/?utm_medium=copy_link


----------



## hifihov

jant71 said:


> Did you try the blow or suck to try and loosen a collapsed diaphragm thing or the cleaning or filter stuff mentioned there? It might be a physical thing that some seem to have cured or it could just be the driver is broken where it can't be fixed.
> 
> If they are being reset the volume should go back to even on both sides and whatever level it was out of the box.


Hi, yes, also tried, to no avail.

Must be a dodgy driver in that case,... but paired to a mac, and altering the volme per channel, chanel 1 controls both left and right... suggesting to me the hardware has gone wrong...

cheers!


----------



## Ahmed 850

Are there any other TWS'S  with feature similar to LG "whisper mode"


----------



## Ceeluh7

gimmeshelter said:


> Think I'm going to return the Liberty Pro 3 and get the Fiio UTWS5 and just use my existing IEM's. I think the behind the ear fit may suit me better.


Sweet man. You'll like what you hear. The utws5 is a very capable and well done adapter


----------



## C_Lindbergh

Fiio seems to be entering the TWS market for reals with the FW5...I'm guessing the hardware will be amzing as always and the software severely lacking...:/


----------



## Toom

C_Lindbergh said:


> Fiio seems to be entering the TWS market for reals with the FW5...I'm guessing the hardware will be amzing as always and the software severely lacking...:/


Yep, any idea of release date and price?


----------



## BigZ12

C_Lindbergh said:


> Fiio seems to be entering the TWS market for reals with the FW5...I'm guessing the hardware will be amzing as always and the software severely lacking...:/


I smell Aprils fools....
https://www.reddit.com/r/FiiO/comments/ttkei0/hifi_true_wireless_fiio_fw5_what_kind_of_tws/


----------



## BigZ12

Or?


----------



## C_Lindbergh

BigZ12 said:


> I smell Aprils fools....
> https://www.reddit.com/r/FiiO/comments/ttkei0/hifi_true_wireless_fiio_fw5_what_kind_of_tws/


Why would they make a April's fool of an ordinary auidio product? 

Makes no sense


----------



## BobJS (Apr 1, 2022)

I don't know where you guys are finding the UTWS5 (2-pin).  Every time I'm motivated to look for it, no one has it.  And I mean NO ONE.

Edit : I've looked :
Audio46
Amazon
HiFiGo
Linsoul
eBay
AliExpress


----------



## FSTOP (Apr 1, 2022)

The Noble Fokus Pro looks to be (about) what I've been waiting for, but think it's too big for my ears. Also, no higher-res codec such as ldac? It's just too much to gamble "trying it out."
Hopefully a few more brands and another generation or two will make the better set: conventional cIEM look/fit (not a big bolt that sticks out of your ears), great sound (either a well-tuned hybrid set of drivers or capable DD), consistent BT radio performance (no or few dropouts and decent range), good amping with plenty of volume, and high quality codecs. It's getting closer, but not there yet.


----------



## BigZ12 (Apr 1, 2022)

C_Lindbergh said:


> Why would they make a April's fool of an ordinary auidio product?
> 
> Makes no sense


It looked like a photo montage of the FD5, and the FW5 was supposed to be released in March 2020...
And the specs and release notes were a little too good to be true? 
https://www.reddit.com/r/FiiO/comments/ttkei0/hifi_true_wireless_fiio_fw5_what_kind_of_tws/

Edit: And the FW5 from the release notes in 2020 looked different I think?


----------



## stacey

So I did a thing. If it’s terrible, I’ll just simply return it. But I think it will be a decent performer.


----------



## Ceeluh7

BobJS said:


> I don't know where you guys are finding the UTWS5 (2-pin).  Every time I'm motivated to look for it, no one has it.  And I mean NO ONE.
> 
> Edit : I've looked :
> Audio46
> ...


I got the 2 pin when they came out and I haven't seen them since. They quite literally get bought out thee second they re stock


----------



## gimmeshelter

BobJS said:


> I don't know where you guys are finding the UTWS5 (2-pin).  Every time I'm motivated to look for it, no one has it.  And I mean NO ONE.
> 
> Edit : I've looked :
> Audio46
> ...



I'm going to buy the mmcx and a 2 pin adapter.


----------



## voicemaster

logiatype said:


> Anyone use these with glasses?


I wear glasses with silicone stopper and have no problem.


----------



## voicemaster (Apr 1, 2022)

Ceeluh7 said:


> I got the 2 pin when they came out and I haven't seen them since. They quite literally get bought out thee second they re stock


Lucky I was able to snatched them when they were available. I wish I bought more than 1 tho 😕.
I am pairing my 2pin UTWS5 with moondrop Kato using 2pin to 2 pin adapter.


----------



## jant71

C_Lindbergh said:


> Why would they make a April's fool of an ordinary auidio product?
> 
> Makes no sense


It should have 10 drivers per side and 30 hours of battery per charge and 10 hours of play on a 15 minute quick charge. Also has 128GB memory storage to play your files, ambient that can let you hear a pin drop from 35 feet away, and ANC that cancels 99.999999999% of noise.  It will come in at $47 with free shipping and lifetime warranty that let's you trade it in for the latest model when it dies on you for free even the shipping.


----------



## jant71 (Apr 1, 2022)

Alright enough joking. Not that exciting but JLab has a new pair...

Don't see that you get much with this one.


----------



## regancipher

jant71 said:


> Alright enough joking. Not that exciting but JLab has a new pair...
> 
> Don't see that you get much with this one.



I didn't see anything, including the earbuds. Living to their name at least. Is this belated April fool or are they just copying the best selling earbud on AliExpress


----------



## jant71

regancipher said:


> I didn't see anything, including the earbuds. Living to their name at least. Is this belated April fool or are they just copying the best selling earbud on AliExpress


Oh no, these are invisible so you can't see them. The Ali ones just never show up after you order so you don't see them but in a different way.   Depends on your definition of invisible really.


----------



## erockg

jant71 said:


> Oh no, these are invisible so you can't see them. The Ali ones just never show up after you order so you don't see them but in a different way.   Depends on your definition of invisible really.


Just preordered them.  Will report back when I get them.


----------



## Sam L

I'm an idiot... Yet another tws purchase and I don't even know why.


----------



## dweaver

Sam L said:


> I'm an idiot... Yet another tws purchase and I don't even know why.


I believe the correct technical term is addict, not idiot LOL...

Me too....


----------



## Sam L

dweaver said:


> I believe the correct technical term is addict, not idiot LOL...
> 
> Me too....


I feel understood...  which is maybe why we post these things, so we feel consoled and then make more tws purchases, even though we already know our iems and headphones sound sooo much better. And so the cycle continues


----------



## ElKabong

Sam L said:


> I feel understood...  which is maybe why we post these things, so we feel consoled and then make more tws purchases, even though we already know our iems and headphones sound sooo much better. And so the cycle co





Sam L said:


> I feel understood...  which is maybe why we post these things, so we feel consoled and then make more tws purchases, even though we already know our iems and headphones sound sooo much better. And so the cycle continues


The last pair i bought were the XM4's plus the other 7 pairs of different tws buds i could muster up. It's my compulsive disorder, i need more than one, or i need help.


----------



## dweaver

BigZ12 said:


> I smell Aprils fools....
> https://www.reddit.com/r/FiiO/comments/ttkei0/hifi_true_wireless_fiio_fw5_what_kind_of_tws/


If this is real, I would be very tempted. The shell looks like the FD series, but the description sounds like the FH3. 

My experience with the FH5 has been positive enough I would have to give this TWS serious consideration.


----------



## Ceeluh7

voicemaster said:


> Lucky I was able to snatched them when they were available. I wish I bought more than 1 tho 😕.
> I am pairing my 2pin UTWS5 with moondrop Kato using 2pin to 2 pin adapter.


I'm thinking the same... Why didn't I buy more than one set of these? They are so very hard to find. BTW, I'm sure Kato goes very nicely with the utws5


----------



## BigZ12

Ceeluh7 said:


> I'm thinking the same... Why didn't I buy more than one set of these? They are so very hard to find. BTW, I'm sure Kato goes very nicely with the utws5


Any reason they are so difficult to get a hold of?


----------



## Ceeluh7

BigZ12 said:


> Any reason they are so difficult to get a hold of?


I know they get sold out pretty fast.


----------



## voicemaster

Ceeluh7 said:


> I'm thinking the same... Why didn't I buy more than one set of these? They are so very hard to find. BTW, I'm sure Kato goes very nicely with the utws5


It does go really well with the KATO.


----------



## Sam L

Sam L said:


> I'm an idiot... Yet another tws purchase and I don't even know why.


I’ve had my on these ever since they came out but never really pulled the trigger, and now that I finally did, I don't think they're worth keeping. I was more impressed with the az60. If I'm going for SQ only, what else is there? Pi7?


----------



## voicemaster

Still debating on which IEM/TWS to bring on my long flight (16 hours: SFO to Singapore). I am thinking: 
1. UTWS5 + Kato/OH10
2. UTWS5 + Timeless
3. AZ09 pro + Midnight
4. AZ09 pro + Olina
For TWS, I am thinking:
1. Galaxy buds pro
2. Nuarl N6P
3. Monoprice M-TWE
4. Earfun free pro
I am leaning toward both UTWS5 and galaxy buds pro for now. Are there any TWS that has good ANC, good sound, has 7 hours battery life and comfortable that is available on Amazon?


----------



## assassin10000

voicemaster said:


> Still debating on which IEM/TWS to bring on my long flight (16 hours: SFO to Singapore). I am thinking:
> 1. UTWS5 + Kato/OH10
> 2. UTWS5 + Timeless
> 3. AZ09 pro + Midnight
> ...



EQ'ed XM4's?


----------



## Sam L

voicemaster said:


> Still debating on which IEM/TWS to bring on my long flight (16 hours: SFO to Singapore). I am thinking:
> 1. UTWS5 + Kato/OH10
> 2. UTWS5 + Timeless
> 3. AZ09 pro + Midnight
> ...


What you're really asking is for permission to bring them all. Bring them all.


----------



## Devodonaldson

Sam L said:


> I’ve had my on these ever since they came out but never really pulled the trigger, and now that I finally did, I don't think they're worth keeping. I was more impressed with the az60. If I'm going for SQ only, what else is there? Pi7?


Noble Fokus Pro


----------



## dweaver

voicemaster said:


> Still debating on which IEM/TWS to bring on my long flight (16 hours: SFO to Singapore). I am thinking:
> 1. UTWS5 + Kato/OH10
> 2. UTWS5 + Timeless
> 3. AZ09 pro + Midnight
> ...


AZ60 has very good ANC so does the older AZ70. Both have around 6-7hours of of life per charge. AZ60 is the more complete IEM with more features. Sound size the 60 is warmer sounding with a bit bigger bass. The 70 is brighter sounding with good sub bass but neutral midbass. Both have better ANC than the Gbuds Pro which I also own.


----------



## voicemaster

dweaver said:


> AZ60 has very good ANC so does the older AZ70. Both have around 6-7hours of of life per charge. AZ60 is the more complete IEM with more features. Sound size the 60 is warmer sounding with a bit bigger bass. The 70 is brighter sounding with good sub bass but neutral midbass. Both have better ANC than the Gbuds Pro which I also own.


Going to bring both my UTWS5 with Kato and Timeless to use on the airplane. For TWS, I am going to bring my galaxy buds pro and live because I am bringing my galaxy S22 Ultra and tab S8. I love that all of them has wireless charging and I just bought a fast wireless charger dock combo (watch and buds) pad.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B092D6ZYPP/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o06_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1


----------



## Luke Skywalker (Apr 3, 2022)

dweaver said:


> I finally caved and bought a good IEM Fiio FH5 and the UTWS5 and now rarely use my actual TWS anymore. The over ear design is pretty comfy and if you have comfy IEMs they become really hard to beat as a combo. If you have a favorite IEM already it also save you having to find its TWS comparable...


Hey where’d you end up ordering the UTSW5?  It seems to be sold out everywhere in USA

Hmm… it sounds like there is more than one version. I want to get the Thieaudio Monarch MkII to use with them. I wonder which model I need? 

I’m also kind of wondering if I can use the UTSW3 that I have as an admittedly inferior solution to tide me over until I can get the 5s somewhere


----------



## dweaver

I bought the MMCX model from Headphone Bar online in Canada. There is also Electronics for Less Canada that have it in stock in Canada.


----------



## gwompki

dweaver said:


> If this is real, I would be very tempted. The shell looks like the FD series, but the description sounds like the FH3.
> 
> My experience with the FH5 has been positive enough I would have to give this TWS serious consideration.


That is super exciting news.  I bought the FH5 3 years ago and it stopped my search for a wired IEM.  Have not bought another since, and that was after owning CA Andromeda.

Actually it is only somewhat exciting because it means I'm probably going to have to buy another set of TWS lol.  

I actually came back to this thread to close the loop and to share how happy I have been with the AZ60 the past 45ish days.  I posted a couple of months ago looking for recommendations on a new TWS due to the frustrations I was having with the Cambridge Melomania Touch.  

Link to original post:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/goi...soon-or-are-we-there-yet.861024/post-16769093

I will just say I absolutely love the AZ60 and it cured my upgrade-itis(until I came back here ha!)

It is everything I was hoping for.  The sound profile is amazing to my ears and I don't feel the need to mess with eq or do a bunch of tip rolling.  I feel it is fairly balanced across the entire spectrum, but still very musical without being overly warm.  Just stellar overall.   I found the stock tips to be very comfortable and offer secure fit so I haven't tried anything else.  Every type of music I have thrown at these sounds good.  It is missing a little of the amazing sub bass slam from the Gemini but I don't miss it honestly.  I took them on a flight recently and found the ANC to be pretty good.  Not Sony good, but very passable.  The app is very good.  The battery life is perfectly adequate for me.  I charge the case about once per week and that is with every day listening and use.  I didn't buy this for calls but when I have used it on Teams calls I've gotten good feedback from people on the other end.

My only minor (very minor) criticisms are the following:

1)The case feels a little flimsy to me, especially the lid.  I'm  worried it's going to break eventually.  Compared to APP it feels cheap.

2) I wish the case were a tiny bit smaller,  comparing to APP here or pixel buds .  I can keep these in my back pocket walking around without it looking too weird 

3)I seem to have random disconnects about once a day.  No rhyme or reason to this one, but have to manually reconnect them and then it's 100% solid for the rest of the day.  That could be anything though, my phone, the environment, etc.

Overall  super happy with the AZ60 and would whole heatedly recommend them to anyone who is in the market.  For me, the AZ60 have the best features of all the other TWS I've tried so far wrapped into a single package.


----------



## jant71 (Apr 3, 2022)

I see the A&K pictures show the case is another chunky one. Not short or svelt.





More of the first gen problems, case too big, no IPX rating, bad mics/call quality. Also the hold for volume up and down is not the best choice. Pretty cool it has the ambient levels adjustment on the buds. Haven't read it yet but seems to be set up with controls where if you want to use the L alone you can't play pause sort of thing. Muting a call is device only.

Seems to sound good but no real comparisons that I have seen. Rivals MU3, Grado, Sony XM4, and MW08 is very vague. Think we hope for that or even better.

Think this one is not gonna do so well mostly because the FiiO with more drivers and the same 4332 is gonna steal it's thunder.


----------



## dweaver (Apr 3, 2022)

gwompki said:


> That is super exciting news.  I bought the FH5 3 years ago and it stopped my search for a wired IEM.  Have not bought another since, and that was after owning CA Andromeda.
> 
> Actually it is only somewhat exciting because it means I'm probably going to have to buy another set of TWS lol.
> 
> ...


If you love the FH5 an adapter like the UTWS5 or 3 can convert it into a TWS. I went this route and love the sound, simply amazing imaging and 3D qualities.

I hope this Fiio TWS is real though, I will buy it as well.


----------



## Luke Skywalker

dweaver said:


> If you love the FH5 an adapter like the UTWS5 or 3 can convert it into a TWS. I went this route and love the sound, simply amazing imaging and 3D qualities.
> 
> I hope this Fiio TWS is real though, I will but it as well.


So… I wonder how much of an improvement in sound quality I’d see going from the -3 to -5 with Monarch or my JH Lolas?

reason I ask so that I have the -3 and I’m not sure when I’ll be able to find the -5 to order


----------



## dweaver

I wish I could asnwer that, I think @Ceeluh7 has both so will be able to help. Not sure if either of the Canadian resellers ship to the US but both Headphone Bar and Canadian Electronics for Less have them in stock. I have used both companies and found them both to be easy to deal with.


----------



## Luke Skywalker

Thanks dweaver!  I wish I’d joined head-fi like 20 years ago. I love how experts are so open to sharing knowledge


----------



## erockg

Looks like the FiiO UTWS5 have an online update through the app now.  Firmware 1.4.  Not sure of the changes, but if I notice anything, I'll report back.  Might just be 1.38 out of beta.


----------



## BooleanBones

Heard more about the UTSW5 over the TW2 recently. Is the preference the Fiio adapter nowadays? Is the Fiio as comfortable as the TW2 is? I am now back in the market for an adapter, but can wait until the UTSW5 pops back in if that is the hot item now


----------



## erockg

BooleanBones said:


> Heard more about the UTSW5 over the TW2 recently. Is the preference the Fiio adapter nowadays? Is the Fiio as comfortable as the TW2 is? I am now back in the market for an adapter, but can wait until the UTSW5 pops back in if that is the hot item now


I have them both.  The TW2 is finicky as far as fit, depending on what IEM you use.  I'm rockin' those SeeAudio Midnight with them and I'm loving it.  The UTWS5 accepts pretty much anything size-wise and fits great.  The Shure adapters are just refined and work flawlessly.  I've used both on calls, watched movies, etc. no issues.  The UTWS5 can't be force paired like the TW2.  So, I mean, depending on what IEM you want to use, you can't really go wrong with either IMO.  Again, with the Shure, it'll depend on the  size of the IEM, at least for me.  Smaller IEMs on them fit me better.  I prefer the Monarch MK2 on the FiiO over the Shure because they're bigger.  Once you figure that out, they're both comfortable to me.


----------



## Tommy C

dweaver said:


> I bought the MMCX model from Headphone Bar online in Canada. There is also Electronics for Less Canada that have it in stock in Canada.


Also here and they often have 10% off coupon. 
https://www.avshop.ca/sound-amp-pa-.../fiio-utws5-true-wireless-bluetooth-amplifier


----------



## BooleanBones

erockg said:


> I have them both.  The TW2 is finicky as far as fit, depending on what IEM you use.  I'm rockin' those SeeAudio Midnight with them and I'm loving it.  The UTWS5 accepts pretty much anything size-wise and fits great.  The Shure adapters are just refined and work flawlessly.  I've used both on calls, watched movies, etc. no issues.  The UTWS5 can't be force paired like the TW2.  So, I mean, depending on what IEM you want to use, you can't really go wrong with either IMO.  Again, with the Shure, it'll depend on the  size of the IEM, at least for me.  Smaller IEMs on them fit me better.  I prefer the Monarch MK2 on the FiiO over the Shure because they're bigger.  Once you figure that out, they're both comfortable to me.


Thanks bro. Might give a flyer on the TW2s then to see. I got the Technics TZ700s finally and they are uber small, so may just work out


----------



## erockg

BooleanBones said:


> Thanks bro. Might give a flyer on the TW2s then to see. I got the Technics TZ700s finally and they are uber small, so may just work out


Looks like they should fit because they are MMCX. Just make sure you change what headphone you are using for them within the Shure app to account for power. I’m using the setting for the SE215 to power my SeeAudio Midnight.


----------



## Ceeluh7 (Apr 3, 2022)

Luke Skywalker said:


> So… I wonder how much of an improvement in sound quality I’d see going from the -3 to -5 with Monarch or my JH Lolas?
> 
> reason I ask so that I have the -3 and I’m not sure when I’ll be able to find the -5 to order


Going from the 3 to the 5 you will see a slightly wider stage and a more extended frequency both ways with more dynamics throughout. At first the difference isn't great but once the utws5 burns in a bit it does start to show. You get more power to drive your iems which aids the whole presentation. You get wireless charging, ambient mode as well. You would think the real benefit of the 5 is the extra power but imo it is the extra DAC which is the first of it's kind in an adapter set up like this (as far as I know) The 3 uses the DAC in the SOC whereas the 5 uses an independent AK DAC. The utws3 is fantastic and well well well worth the money they are asking but for the extra you'd pay for the 5 it is very much worth it...at least to me. Now as far as driving the Monarch or JH I think you would notice the difference, at least a little bit as those are both very resolving sets which would take advantage of the superior DAC chip. That said, I'm sure the 3 will sound great with either of those as well. Sorry if I didn't help you at all...lol


----------



## Luke Skywalker

Ceeluh7 said:


> Going from the 3 to the 5 you will see a slightly wider stage and a more extended frequency both ways with more dynamics throughout. At first the difference isn't great but once the utws5 burns in a bit it does start to show. You get more power to drive your iems which aids the whole presentation. You get wireless charging, ambient mode as well. You would think the real benefit of the 5 is the extra power but imo it is the extra DAC which is the first of it's kind in an adapter set up like this. The 3 uses the DAC in the SOC whereas the 5 uses an independent AK DAC. The utws3 is fantastic and well well well worth the money they are asking but for the extra you'd pay for the 5 it is very much worth it...at least to me. Now as far as driving the Monarch or JH I think you would notice the difference, at least a little bit as those are both very resolving sets which would take advantage of the superior DAC chip. That said, I'm sure the 3 will sound great with either of those as well. Sorry if I didn't help you at all...lol


Wow it sounds amazing. i love ambient mode on TWS. I’m stuck with the 3s until I can find a place to order the 5


----------



## Luke Skywalker

Has anyone experimented with other tips for the Devialet Gemini?  Mine pop out of my ears big time and I get a popping sound if I‘m chewing food or running on the treadmill


----------



## dweaver (Apr 3, 2022)

erockg said:


> Looks like the FiiO UTWS5 have an online update through the app now.  Firmware 1.4.  Not sure of the changes, but if I notice anything, I'll report back.  Might just be 1.38 out of beta.


Thanks for letting people know about the update. I applied it and the ambient seems less artificial which is great. The assistant function now continues playing music versus pausing it. I did not notice any change in  the music which is fine because it already sounds awesome.


----------



## Ceeluh7

Luke Skywalker said:


> Wow it sounds amazing. i love ambient mode on TWS. I’m stuck with the 3s until I can find a place to order the 5


I did see a used one in sale on ebay in the states for $104. Don't know where you live or if you'd go for a used pair. It is an mmcx version


----------



## Ceeluh7

dweaver said:


> Thanks for letting people know about the update. I applied it and the ambient seems less artificial which is great. The assistant function now continues playing music versus pausing it. I did not notice any change in  the music which is fine because it already sound awesome.


Agreed the ambient sounds a tad better. Glad Fiio sticking with updates


----------



## logiatype

Does the MMCX version require an adapter for non-FIIO IEMs? Most of the ones I use are MMCX but have had some of those fail over the years.


----------



## Ceeluh7

logiatype said:


> Does the MMCX version require an adapter for non-FIIO IEMs? Most of the ones I use are MMCX but have had some of those fail over the years.


No they will fit any mmcx. Just a universal mmcx adapter


----------



## productred (Apr 4, 2022)

Have been trying to stick to wired iems and having extensively tried all the top dogs in the TWS field I still can't find one that even remotely quench the audiophile thirst in TWS form. I have an Aviot TE-BD21f (which is a 1DD2BA hybrid) and a Final Audio Evangelion just for the occasional need for wireless freedom and barely acceptable sound quality. It seems to me with the current stage very bloated bass, scooped mids and peaked high-mids are the staple signature of all the TWS offerings (bar the Pi7, which unfortunately comes with notoriously bad connectivity and a hefty price tag)

Enter the pretty evasive HA-FW1000t, which I believe had not been introduced by the local AD at all. Finally got the chance to test it out, and jeez those mids...........finally there's a TWS with mids! And even got very nicely extended highs to my huge surprise (though not very outspoken, due to the inherent property of all the entirely enclosed TWS for IPX ratings) without the need to bump up high-mids for brightness.

Bought a set after trying it out, lived with it for a few days, leaving my DAP and wired iems at home on purpose, and I am happy to say I can happily live with those in my ears on days I feel like bringing as little stuff as possible, and still can enjoy great sound. Those mids are sweeeeeeeet. I play it with iPhone and Apple Music Lossless/Hi-Res Lossless with both AptX and K2 tech enabled.


----------



## nekonhime

voicemaster said:


> Still debating on which IEM/TWS to bring on my long flight (16 hours: SFO to Singapore). I am thinking:
> 1. UTWS5 + Kato/OH10
> 2. UTWS5 + Timeless
> 3. AZ09 pro + Midnight
> ...


Az60, liberty 3 pro, ath cks50tw, wf 1000xm4


----------



## Asabides

Looking to try out another set of TWS and compliment my Sony WF-1000XM4, B&W Pi7 and FiiL T1 XS. Been checking out the following:

1. Senn CX400BT
2. Technics EAH-AZ60
3. Technics EAH-AZ70
4.  Senn CX Plus
5. Soundcore Liberty 3 Pro
6. SoundPeats H1
7. Nuarl N10 Plus

Want to keep price below $250. Which one would you guys pick? Is there another that should be on this list that isn’t? Thanks.


----------



## Caipirina

Anyone here with Comfobuds Z, I am experiencing battery decline to the point that even after hours on charger / in case I never get more than 70% full. I looked around if there is a fix via firmware (don't see anything in the app) or pressing that middle button for a reset might help .. so far no luck ... anyone else? 

I would really not mind buying an upgraded version of this with better battery life. For what it advertizes to be it is pretty awesome ... still most comfortable for side sleeping, even beating the linkbuds.


----------



## productred

Asabides said:


> Looking to try out another set of TWS and compliment my Sony WF-1000XM4, B&W Pi7 and FiiL T1 XS. Been checking out the following:
> 
> 1. Senn CX400BT
> 2. Technics EAH-AZ60
> ...



Victor HA-FW1000t, to me it sounds heads and shoulders above the Sony (and most if not all other TWS out there) while connectivity is way more stable than the Pi7. Purely on sound it sounds better (very balanced in terms of how TWS sound, lovely mids and treble extension that works) than everything on your list (except Technics AZ70 which I haven't tried before). Quick search on Amazon suggest current price around $290. 

The new Final ZE3000 may be worth looking too (I haven't tried that either but it's well priced, and previous Final TWS offerings are not bad).


----------



## C_Lindbergh

productred said:


> Victor HA-FW1000t, to me it sounds heads and shoulders above the Sony (and most if not all other TWS out there) while connectivity is way more stable than the Pi7. Purely on sound it sounds better (very balanced in terms of how TWS sound, lovely mids and treble extension that works) than everything on your list (except Technics AZ70 which I haven't tried before). Quick search on Amazon suggest current price around $290.
> 
> The new Final ZE3000 may be worth looking too (I haven't tried that either but it's well priced, and previous Final TWS offerings are not bad).


Id love to try the FW1000t... But they're so expensive in Europe... 400€


----------



## Asabides

productred said:


> Victor HA-FW1000t, to me it sounds heads and shoulders above the Sony (and most if not all other TWS out there) while connectivity is way more stable than the Pi7. Purely on sound it sounds better (very balanced in terms of how TWS sound, lovely mids and treble extension that works) than everything on your list (except Technics AZ70 which I haven't tried before). Quick search on Amazon suggest current price around $290.
> 
> The new Final ZE3000 may be worth looking too (I haven't tried that either but it's well priced, and previous Final TWS offerings are not bad).


Thanks! $290 is out of price range as it enters the next tier of TWS like B&O EQ and Noble Fokus Pro. I will take a look at the final ZE3000 though.


----------



## james444

C_Lindbergh said:


> Id love to try the FW1000t... But they're so expensive in Europe... 400€


Only about 290€ incl. tax & shipping, if you order from Amazon Japan:
https://www.amazon.co.jp/gp/aw/d/B09HGGWSZL/


----------



## WesennTony

Caipirina said:


> Anyone here with Comfobuds Z, I am experiencing battery decline to the point that even after hours on charger / in case I never get more than 70% full. I looked around if there is a fix via firmware (don't see anything in the app) or pressing that middle button for a reset might help .. so far no luck ... anyone else?
> 
> I would really not mind buying an upgraded version of this with better battery life. For what it advertizes to be it is pretty awesome ... still most comfortable for side sleeping, even beating the linkbuds.


Mine has the same problem and contacted the support in US. Started a replacement last week. Finger crossed...


----------



## darveniza

erockg said:


> Hmm.  Falcon ANC kinda big
> 
> https://www.instagram.com/p/CbxcGv6u0gL/?utm_medium=copy_link


Really massive


----------



## LCMusicLover

logiatype said:


> Does the MMCX version require an adapter for non-FIIO IEMs? Most of the ones I use are MMCX but have had some of those fail over the years.


Working fine with my iBasso IT07s.


----------



## Ahmed 850

Are their any tws in the market with the ability to take one of the buds off to talk directly to it for privacy like LG fp series "whisper mode"


----------



## Luke Skywalker

Ceeluh7 said:


> I did see a used one in sale on ebay in the states for $104. Don't know where you live or if you'd go for a used pair. It is an mmcx version


Thanks I’ll see if I can find it…


----------



## Juturna (Apr 5, 2022)

Has anyone had any issue with stereo imbalance on their Technics AZ60?
I just realized today that there's a pretty remarkable difference in audio volume on the left and right channel when I was listening to some music on the daily commute into work and was like "why the **** are the vocals panned so hard to the right?"
I checked in Wavelet how much I needed to lower the volume on the right earbud to get approximately the same output, and we're talking about -2 to -3 dB to make it sound similar in volume.

I need to make sure that it's not my ears being weird or just some weird wax buildup in the tips, but based on what I can see right now it shouldn't be that because if anything, the right one seems to have fared slightly worse when it comes to that.
Alas, I need to test some of the other tips but I have some doubts that it would solve my issue.
Although weirdly enough I got a notification from the Technics app saying that "regular maintenance of your earbuds should be done blablabla" or something along those lines, with a guide on how to clean the eartips. Weird coincidence that it happened now if nothing else!

Edit: 
I tested my AirPods Pro now and no, it's not just my ears anyway. Even though I feel slightly paranoid that there's something weird with my ears, it's definitely not the same.


----------



## BigZ12

https://en-ca.sennheiser.com/newsroom/inspired-by-sound-odiebu

"The Sennheiser MOMENTUM True Wireless 3 can be to pre-ordered from today and will be available from April 19, 2022, with an MSRP of $329.95 CAD in black, white and graphite. "


----------



## wakokokoyz (Apr 5, 2022)

Juturna said:


> Has anyone had any issue with stereo imbalance on their Technics AZ60?
> I just realized today that there's a pretty remarkable difference in audio volume on the left and right channel when I was listening to some music on the daily commute into work and was like "why the **** are the vocals panned so hard to the right?"
> I checked in Wavelet how much I needed to lower the volume on the right earbud to get approximately the same output, and we're talking about -2 to -3 dB to make it sound similar in volume.
> 
> ...


i experienced this for the first few days to a week of owning it. 95% concluded that it is source dependent. it only happens to one of several devices i use and unlucky for me, it's my main (oneplus nord 2). the strange thing is, it seems to have fixed itself.

mine is randomly panning to the right-center-right-far right. it is really annoying. it does not happen all the time. so the funny thing is when i brought it down to the store for replacement, it didnt do its thing. if i get to find out the cause, ill go ahead with the exchange. but as ive said, most likely to be source dependent.


----------



## Juturna (Apr 5, 2022)

wakokokoyz said:


> i experienced this for the first few days to a week of owning it. 95% concluded that it is source dependent. it only happens to one of several devices i use and unlucky for me, it's my main (oneplus nord 2). the strange thing is, it seems to have fixed itself.
> 
> mine is randomly panning to the right-center-right-far right. it is really annoying. it does not happen all the time. so the funny thing is when i brought it down to the store for replacement, it didnt do its thing. if i get to find out the cause, ill go ahead with the exchange. but as ive said, most likely to be source dependent.



Hmm, but are you referring to it noticeably panning right-center-right-far right when you're listening going back and forth? Because that's not what's happening for me. It's just my left earbuds being quieter than the right. The left earbud sounds slightly lower in volume and overall sounds a bit more muted/muffled, I think. Could just be that the lower volume makes the highs stand out less, but yeah.

I actually tried it just now with my work iPhone on top of my Android phone that I normally use just to make sure that it's not source dependent for me, and it sounds the same on the iPhone pretty much.
Think I need to go send them in for repair, and I'm worried that they might not replace/repair them as a warranty claim on the fact that my case has some scuffs and marks on it from just regular wear-and-tear, but it certainly looks they could be from drops (which they are not).
Well, we'll see.

Bummed out that I have to go back my Devialet Geminis or Sennheiser MTW2 for awhile... I might have gotten a bit spoilt with using these but they are just far superior to those two in my opinion, both in usability, comfort, call quality and sound.


----------



## wakokokoyz

Juturna said:


> Hmm, but are you referring to it noticeably panning right-center-right-far right when you're listening going back and forth? Because that's not what's happening for me. It's just my left earbuds being quieter than the right. The left earbud sounds slightly lower in volume and overall sounds a bit more muted/muffled, I think. Could just be that the lower volume makes the highs stand out less, but yeah.
> 
> I actually tried it just now with my work iPhone on top of my Android phone that I normally use just to make sure that it's not source dependent for me, and it sounds the same on the iPhone pretty much.
> Think I need to go send them in for repair, and I'm worried that they might not replace/repair them as a warranty claim on the fact that my case has some scuffs and marks on it from just regular wear-and-tear, but it certainly looks they could be from drops (which they are not).
> ...


ok. so for your case, unit is defective, insertion depth difference or try using different sized L-R tips


----------



## Caipirina

Juturna said:


> Has anyone had any issue with stereo imbalance on their Technics AZ60?
> I just realized today that there's a pretty remarkable difference in audio volume on the left and right channel when I was listening to some music on the daily commute into work and was like "why the **** are the vocals panned so hard to the right?"
> I checked in Wavelet how much I needed to lower the volume on the right earbud to get approximately the same output, and we're talking about -2 to -3 dB to make it sound similar in volume.
> 
> ...



I had this issue with my Bose QC earbuds and it turned out to be actually a volume stuck on one side issue, hence changing volume change woudl actually shift the imbalance from one side to the other ... fixed with reset ... have you done a reset?


----------



## cresny

Juturna said:


> Hmm, but are you referring to it noticeably panning right-center-right-far right when you're listening going back and forth? Because that's not what's happening for me. It's just my left earbuds being quieter than the right. The left earbud sounds slightly lower in volume and overall sounds a bit more muted/muffled, I think. Could just be that the lower volume makes the highs stand out less, but yeah.
> 
> I actually tried it just now with my work iPhone on top of my Android phone that I normally use just to make sure that it's not source dependent for me, and it sounds the same on the iPhone pretty much.
> Think I need to go send them in for repair, and I'm worried that they might not replace/repair them as a warranty claim on the fact that my case has some scuffs and marks on it from just regular wear-and-tear, but it certainly looks they could be from drops (which they are not).
> ...


I first experienced something this on the Devialet Gemini, a sort of 60's psychedelic rock balance shifting that would eventually settle. I assumed it was their Pressure Balance Architecture feature but have since experienced something like this and other units. Maybe something in a chipset? I don't know but I do agree it's some attempt at compensation for ear tips.


----------



## Juturna (Apr 5, 2022)

Caipirina said:


> I had this issue with my Bose QC earbuds and it turned out to be actually a volume stuck on one side issue, hence changing volume change woudl actually shift the imbalance from one side to the other ... fixed with reset ... have you done a reset?


Good tip, but didn't help unfortunately 
I'm beginning to question whether it's the right or the left bud that's ****ed... I think it's the left, but at the same time the right seems to sound like it's overly bass-heavy and bloated despite using the same EQ settings that I always have, just something I noticed when I tried lowering the volume on just the right earbud with Wavelet.

I'm listening to Talk Talk - After The Flood and every bass note sounds like a freaking bass drop or something, and that's not what they've sounded like before (the earbuds, obviously), and it's not exactly a bass-heavy production like that.


----------



## tonyfiore75

Juturna said:


> Good tip, but didn't help unfortunately
> I'm beginning to question whether it's the right or the left bud that's ****ed... I think it's the left, but at the same time the right seems to sound like it's overly bass-heavy and bloated despite using the same EQ settings that I always have, just something I noticed when I tried lowering the volume on just the right earbud with Wavelet.
> 
> I'm listening to Talk Talk - After The Flood and every bass note sounds like a freaking bass drop or something, and that's not what they've sounded like before (the earbuds, obviously), and it's not exactly a bass-heavy production like that.


It doesn't help with your issue but I love Talk Talk, haha. Not a band name you hear mentioned every day!


----------



## Tommy C (Apr 5, 2022)

Just noticed Sennheiser had a FW update to their app. Quite a significant update with Sound Check presets which is based on personal sound ID.  I’m unable to set it up though as it says music isn’t playing or something along those lines. I’m streaming so maybe it needs me to play something from the phone but currently have none.
Sound signature is a bit different too. More bass based on memory.
I’m using the CX 400BT.

Edit: they also included eq presets. Sadly the overall volume seems lower and I’m listening at 90% and I’m not blasting normally.


----------



## helmutcheese (Apr 5, 2022)

If you hear one side louder than other, flip them round and you will soon know if it is your ears or the buds.

I know they will not fit correctly, and you may need raise the volume to compensate but it will give you your answer, I have this in many SoundPeats QCC 3040 TWS as their QC is poor and sometimes it goes away if I put them back in the case for a while but on one pair of H1 Prem's it became permanent and one pair of my Sonic Pro's is doing it the past 2-3 days  but had not done so for months.


----------



## Toom

Tommy C said:


> Just noticed Sennheiser had a FW update to their app. Quite a significant update with Sound Check presets which is based on personal sound ID.  I’m unable to set it up though as it says music isn’t playing or something along those lines. I’m streaming so maybe it needs me to play something from the phone but currently have none.
> Sound signature is a bit different too. More bass based on memory.
> I’m using the CX 400BT.
> 
> Edit: they also included eq presets. Sadly the overall volume seems lower and I’m listening at 90% and I’m not blasting normally.


Not a FW update, just the app as far as I can tell?


----------



## 7Lions

Asabides said:


> Looking to try out another set of TWS and compliment my Sony WF-1000XM4, B&W Pi7 and FiiL T1 XS. Been checking out the following:
> 
> 1. Senn CX400BT
> 2. Technics EAH-AZ60
> ...


 I've been questioning my more expensive audio purchases ever since I picked up the Soundcore Liberty 3 Pro's. The highs are hot out of the box but once you dial it down in the app you're left with a truly amazing set of TWS IEMs. I'm on the hunt for a similar listening experience with wired IEM's and headphones, my current gear just isn't doing it for me anymore.


----------



## ldo77 (Apr 6, 2022)

I received my Creative Outlier Pro and they are beautifull... And the case too.
https://en.creative.com/p/headphones-headsets/creative-outlier-pro

Fit is perfect with the origin tips.
Now I will wait a few burning hours/days before really listen it.


----------



## jant71 (Apr 6, 2022)

That reminds me about the Creative Outlier Pro. Supposed to a hundred bucks or more but actually you can buy them from creative for $67.49 atm with a code. Not out yet though as it says April 20th they will be in stock. Not sure if this is a good thing or not.

Two vids I saw with a mic test that was not well done or the mic quality just isn't very good. Another vid was quick but stated they have a consumer sound with bigger bass and tamer treble than in the earlier versions of their TWS.


----------



## Dobrescu George

Mid week is the perfect time for a TWS IEM review, so Unique and Scroll from Padmate Tech is a happy choice for those who enjoy customisable TWS IEMS, a natural sonic presentaiton, all in the entry-level range! 

More info about how they work and sound in today's full written review~ 

https://www.audiophile-heaven.com/2...l-plus-tws-iems-natural-chameleon-sounds.html


----------



## Asabides

7Lions said:


> I've been questioning my more expensive audio purchases ever since I picked up the Soundcore Liberty 3 Pro's. The highs are hot out of the box but once you dial it down in the app you're left with a truly amazing set of TWS IEMs. I'm on the hunt for a similar listening experience with wired IEM's and headphones, my current gear just isn't doing it for me anymore.


I made the decision yesterday to grab the Technics AZ60. It came down to the Soundcore Pro 3 and the Technics. Ultimately it came down to a few reviewers (like Flossy) who chose the AZ60 over the SoundCore. Should be here tomorrow. Looking forward to testing the LDAC and comparing the sound against my Pi7 in APTX HD.


----------



## ElKabong

ldo77 said:


> I received my Creative Outlier Pro and they are beautifull... And the case too.
> https://en.creative.com/p/headphones-headsets/creative-outlier-pro
> 
> Fit is perfect with the origin tips.
> Now I will wait a few burning hours/days before really listen it.


Those look sweet.


----------



## productred

Asabides said:


> Thanks! $290 is out of price range as it enters the next tier of TWS like B&O EQ and Noble Fokus Pro. I will take a look at the final ZE3000 though.



True, but I think it's well worth that price, it is the first and only TWS that makes me not missing my dedicated DAPs and wired iems costing lots more.


----------



## DigDub

My az60 right bud has died. The battery life for the right bud was getting shorter (about 3 hours only) and when I tried to charge it yesterday, it became really hot and I could smell something burning inside the bud. Probably the battery is faulty.


----------



## tendou

Which tws come with slim non bulging in the pocket case?


----------



## gimmeshelter

tendou said:


> Which tws come with slim non bulging in the pocket case?


The Liberty 3 have a very nice case that fits easily in your pocket


----------



## Tommy C

tendou said:


> Which tws come with slim non bulging in the pocket case?


Best size and shape for me that I currently own is the Fiil T1XS. It’s tiny.


----------



## Tommy C

Toom said:


> Not a FW update, just the app as far as I can tell?


Possibly. Not sure. Maybe my CX 400BT weren’t running the most recent FW as I don’t use them that often like I used to.


----------



## Juturna

I'm kinda looking at buying some new TWS's right now just to kinda...  tide me over until my next "big" purchase, and while my Technics AZ60 are off for repair/replacement. 

So I'm looking for something kinda cheap, sub $100-category kinda, available on Amazon( preferrably in an EU country), anyone have any suggestions? 
Been looking so far at:

Earfun Free Pro 2 (for around €60) 
Soundpeats Mini Pro (around $65)
LG FP8 (around $89)
1MORE Comfobuds Mini ($99)
1More Pistonbuds Pro ($59) 
Lypertek Z3 ($99) 
Galaxy Buds Pro ($109)
Soundcore Life P3/Liberty Air 2 Pro ($70-ish)

Or anything else that I might be missing in my list?


----------



## tonyfiore75

Juturna said:


> I'm kinda looking at buying some new TWS's right now just to kinda...  tide me over until my next "big" purchase, and while my Technics AZ60 are off for repair/replacement.
> 
> So I'm looking for something kinda cheap, sub $100-category kinda, available on Amazon( preferrably in an EU country), anyone have any suggestions?
> Been looking so far at:
> ...


AKG N400?


----------



## BooleanBones

tonyfiore75 said:


> AKG N400?


I actually had similar thoughts. Got mine for 48 USD and think it was a great deal. Not sure their pricing nowadays.


----------



## Juturna

tonyfiore75 said:


> AKG N400?


I'd 100% say yes, I think I would like their sound signature, but they're not available anywhere in the EU from what I can find, at least not for that price ////:


----------



## BooleanBones

Juturna said:


> I'd 100% say yes, I think I would like their sound signature, but they're not available anywhere in the EU from what I can find, at least not for that price ////:


That sucks, don't even see them on the Sweden AKG site. Half tempted to buy them for you and ship them to you since they still show 48$ on the US site


----------



## tonyfiore75

Juturna said:


> I'd 100% say yes, I think I would like their sound signature, but they're not available anywhere in the EU from what I can find, at least not for that price ////:


How much are they on Amazon there? Here they're $68 today.


----------



## tonyfiore75

BooleanBones said:


> That sucks, don't even see them on the Sweden AKG site. Half tempted to buy them for you and ship them to you since they still show 48$ on the US site


You show $48?! That's too funny. I just looked and it's showing as $68!


----------



## BooleanBones

tonyfiore75 said:


> You show $48?! That's too funny. I just looked and it's showing as $68!


yep, 68% off on the AKG site. 47.99 is a pretty great deal for them. My 2022 yard work buds for sure.


----------



## tonyfiore75

BooleanBones said:


> yep, 68% off on the AKG site. 47.99 is a pretty great deal for them. My 2022 yard work buds for sure.


Ohhhhh - I thought we were talking Amazon. My mistake. That's a great price!


----------



## BooleanBones

tonyfiore75 said:


> Ohhhhh - I thought we were talking Amazon. My mistake. That's a great price!


yeah, he was talking Amazon, but figured I would throw that out there thinking maybe they ship to him. My only irritation with them is case placement of the buds, left=right and right=left.


----------



## Juturna

They're not even available on Amazon in the EU, AKG doesn't have them on their local site, AND doesn't offer international shipping. It's honestly weird how far they've gone to make sure that we don't get to buy the N400


----------



## BooleanBones

Juturna said:


> They're not even available on Amazon in the EU, AKG doesn't have them on their local site, AND doesn't offer international shipping. It's honestly weird how far they've gone to make sure that we don't get to buy the N400


odd indeed


----------



## Asabides

productred said:


> True, but I think it's well worth that price, it is the first and only TWS that makes me not missing my dedicated DAPs and wired iems costing lots more.


Which ones are you talking about? The HA-FW1000t? If so, then they were third on my list. Ultimately, they were eliminated from contention because there are virtually no reviews for them out there and they don’t appear to have LDAC, which is something I wanted. Wish there were reviews and more info about them though as if they are better than my Pi7 I would most likely sell my Pi7 and grab the JVC.


----------



## BooleanBones

Asabides said:


> Which ones are you talking about? The HA-FW1000t? If so, then they were third on my list. Ultimately, they were eliminated from contention because there are virtually no reviews for them out there and they don’t appear to have LDAC, which is something I wanted. Wish there were reviews and more info about them though as if they are better than my Pi7 I would most likely sell my Pi7 and grab the JVC.


Might run a search on this thread for them. A few folks had commented on them a while back, which may help you decide.


----------



## Jawsq (Apr 7, 2022)

tonyfiore75 said:


> AKG N400?


Great price at 50 bucks but i actually ended up returning these. The mids were not for me and im too picky, i needed a bit more life on them. for the price you cant beat these though


----------



## productred

Asabides said:


> Which ones are you talking about? The HA-FW1000t? If so, then they were third on my list. Ultimately, they were eliminated from contention because there are virtually no reviews for them out there and they don’t appear to have LDAC, which is something I wanted. Wish there were reviews and more info about them though as if they are better than my Pi7 I would most likely sell my Pi7 and grab the JVC.



See mine just a couple of pages back, for one. They sound on par, if not better than, the Pi7 (IMHO the JVC sounds better), while the functionality and connectivity is, compared to the Pi7, completely hassle-free. It may be the only TWS out there with such meat and substance in the mids - Final Audio came second to that and they have actually explained it somewhere why the vast majority of TWS have bloated bass and scooped mids when compared to their wired counterparts.


----------



## productred

Juturna said:


> They're not even available on Amazon in the EU, AKG doesn't have them on their local site, AND doesn't offer international shipping. It's honestly weird how far they've gone to make sure that we don't get to buy the N400



It looks like Samsung/AKG intentionally suppress the visibility of the N400 to make way for the Galaxy Buds Pro and siblings, which are selling like mad everywhere and becoming a must-have for non-headfiers.


----------



## tendou

Tommy C said:


> Best size and shape for me that I currently own is the Fiil T1XS. It’s tiny.


Thanks. Fill t1 lite should be the same size right?


----------



## tendou

gimmeshelter said:


> The Liberty 3 have a very nice case that fits easily in your pocket


Thanks! I forgot to specify my budget. Probably something around or lower than fiil t1 lite. I'm mostly using them for listening to podcast or YouTube talks. Only sometime for music


----------



## Tommy C

tendou said:


> Thanks. Fill t1 lite should be the same size right?


Unfortunately I can’t answer that since I never had the T1 Lite.


----------



## musicphotolife

jant71 said:


> That reminds me about the Creative Outlier Pro. Supposed to a hundred bucks or more but actually you can buy them from creative for $67.49 atm with a code. Not out yet though as it says April 20th they will be in stock. Not sure if this is a good thing or not.
> 
> Two vids I saw with a mic test that was not well done or the mic quality just isn't very good. Another vid was quick but stated they have a consumer sound with bigger bass and tamer treble than in the earlier versions of their TWS.



Hey! You probably found the video reviews I made! Thanks for checking them out! I wrote a more detailed review on the Creative Outlier Pro, and personally I do not enjoy them as much. Perhaps my aging ears prefer brighter treble tuning, the Outlier Pro is just too dark to enjoy. While the mic is nothing to shout at, I find that most earbuds using standard SoC have poor mic implementation, except those models that have proprietary mic technology - like Jabra, Technics, etc.


----------



## Juturna

It took me about 6 months and a switch to Android - but I don't dislike the Devialet Geminis anymore.
They are still not 100% able to perform and sound the way I would want them to, but to me the biggest issue with them is probably their limited in-app EQ? 
There's nothing I can do in the app to make them sound good which was an issue when using iOS, but using Wavelet I can actually get them sounding pretty good. 

What I still don't like is that even with EQ the mids just lack a bit of warmth and presence which affects vocals negatively, it sounds good but I know it could sound better. 
The bass, while great for certain genres of electronic music, is also difficult to get any sort of natural sound to when it's more organic instrumentation, there's either a big "oomph" to it which kinda removes the character of the instrument, or if you EQ it down, the sound becomes the worst kind of flat and harsh to my ears. 
I also feel like they're very sensitive to EQ in a way, changing the upper mids exposes the treble and makes them sound too sibilant and almost hurt my ears with just a small adjustment. 

But with Wavelet they're definitely something like a 7/10 regarding sound, whereas before I thought they were a 5/10 and I could NOT understand why people were talking them up on here. I could see myself changing the EQ a little bit more and getting even better sound out of them too, so we'll see.


----------



## Juturna (Apr 8, 2022)

productred said:


> It looks like Samsung/AKG intentionally suppress the visibility of the N400 to make way for the Galaxy Buds Pro and siblings, which are selling like mad everywhere and becoming a must-have for non-headfiers.


Yeah, I think that sounds reasonable, I'm still mad about it though... like sure, don't sell them in stores here.
But don't prevent me from ordering them from Amazon or your webstore, offer some international shipping if I found myself landing on their website anyhow.

With the recent changes to how much import tax/customs fees you pay from the US to EU I think I would probably not be so inclined to get them anyway (or actually it isn't that bad when buying such a cheap product, but it would land it around $75 if I bought it from the AKG online store), so...
Edit: I can actually order them from Amazon US, but with all the extra fees they would end up being just above $100. I have a gift card on Amazon for $30 that would make it worth the cost, but unfortunately that too is only redeemable in Sweden and not anywhere else. :/ so that's a bummer. No actually, a huge bummer. For some reason even Amazon Germany has seemingly 50% more earbuds and they all have pretty good deals, voucher codes etc. Here in Sweden, I don't think I've ever seen any sort of deals like you can find there, and ordering from Amazon Germany can even be cheaper than ordering from the local store on top of the actual assortment of products being way larger in Germany.


----------



## Ceeluh7

Juturna said:


> I'm kinda looking at buying some new TWS's right now just to kinda...  tide me over until my next "big" purchase, and while my Technics AZ60 are off for repair/replacement.
> 
> So I'm looking for something kinda cheap, sub $100-category kinda, available on Amazon( preferrably in an EU country), anyone have any suggestions?
> Been looking so far at:
> ...


Soundpeats H1, Moondrop Sparks, Sabbat E16


----------



## Ceeluh7

Juturna said:


> It took me about 6 months and a switch to Android - but I don't dislike the Devialet Geminis anymore.
> They are still not 100% able to perform and sound the way I would want them to, but to me the biggest issue with them is probably their limited in-app EQ?
> There's nothing I can do in the app to make them sound good which was an issue when using iOS, but using Wavelet I can actually get them sounding pretty good.
> 
> ...


I sent the Gemini back for this reason. For me they just didn't have anything special to them. They were a nice enough sounding, however I had a few that were 3 times cheaper that could sound better....to me. When you spend $300 for tws you should expect top of the line across the board.


----------



## Luke Skywalker

Juturna said:


> It took me about 6 months and a switch to Android - but I don't dislike the Devialet Geminis anymore.
> They are still not 100% able to perform and sound the way I would want them to, but to me the biggest issue with them is probably their limited in-app EQ?
> There's nothing I can do in the app to make them sound good which was an issue when using iOS, but using Wavelet I can actually get them sounding pretty good.
> 
> ...


Hey what tips are you using?


----------



## jant71 (Apr 8, 2022)

dweaver said:


> How is the imaging and 3D aspect of the IEM? I like the idea of the EQ adjustments at lower volumes.



Okay, now knowing it better I would say the Yamaha are accuracy over amount as far as 3D aspects. Headphones like and quality in the presentation. All is well separated and has air around it and smearing is very low and nearly no congestion. It does respond to what is before it as far as size though. I have a CCZ Emerald earphone which is quite big and holographic sounding and accentuates that. The Yamaha doesn't add in the same way but holds more to the files and device. It can push elements out nicely in the recording and some podcasts with distant elements have fooled me like a decent headphone can. Just not super big or 3D all the time for the size of the room. Quality of the spacing and imaging/placement but they are a bit more up front not putting you more rows backs. So, again natural staging with good quality and not the big airy all the time thing but throws out the elements to the corners when it is told to in the recording. I'll add that it does this more and/or better than other TWS. Some other TWS are not imaged as correctly in the first place and will throw the same elements in a song but not as far as the Yamaha does for distance in that throw. They don't have that big height in general but the Yamaha will project something as tall as anything so the "stretch" is very 3D when it does. They just aren't trying to be the big hall, farther away sound all the time.

I think it does well at the low volume adjustment thing so it keeps its stage instead of some that collapse when the highs and lows weaken at low volume. Good in that regard.


----------



## Tommy C

Tommy C said:


> Possibly. Not sure. Maybe my CX 400BT weren’t running the most recent FW as I don’t use them that often like I used to.



The new Sennheiser app is a hot mess with the CX 400BT.  Very frustrating.
The old app was working as it should. Nothing fancy but toggling between devices was always flawless for me while with the new app half of the time it doesn’t recognize my phone or iPad.
Anyone else is having issues with the app? Also, what’s up with Sennheiser forcing you to sign up and register an account in order to use their new app?


----------



## Juturna

Ceeluh7 said:


> Soundpeats H1, Moondrop Sparks, Sabbat E16


Have the H1, not a huge fan but they're decent. 
The Moondrop Sparks has a disgustingly long delivery time from Amazon (they say between June 11-June 16 as estimated date of delivery) and the Sabbat E16 aren't available here. /:


----------



## erockg

Juturna said:


> Have the H1, not a huge fan but they're decent.
> The Moondrop Sparks has a disgustingly long delivery time from Amazon (they say between June 11-June 16 as estimated date of delivery) and the Sabbat E16 aren't available here. /:


Sparks sound is wonderful, but no volume controls.  Also, the fit is just plan weird.  Not very ergonomic.  I wound up returning them.  But your ears may be different


----------



## go0gle

$99 for the liberty 3 pro on amazon, just grabbed a pair to replace my pro2


----------



## Sam L (Apr 8, 2022)

Need recommendations...

I've been on the lookout for a semi in-ear tws forever, like the airpods. (which I have, but still, we needs more, right?)

What I've purchased so far:
Fill cc
Soundpeats true air 2 and 3
Edifier something
Mifo 02
Sony linkbuds
Galaxy beans
Tribit something

What else is out there that sounds decent and has a good mic?


----------



## Ceeluh7

Juturna said:


> Have the H1, not a huge fan but they're decent.
> The Moondrop Sparks has a disgustingly long delivery time from Amazon (they say between June 11-June 16 as estimated date of delivery) and the Sabbat E16 aren't available here. /:


Honestly man... You are looking under $100. Another set that sounds fantastic is the Lypertek Soundfree S20 which normally sells for around $50 here. Looking at your list you've covered most sets. I can't remember if you had Tanchjim Echo on your list or not. Also, now that I think of it. Edifier Neobuds Pro have been discounted here routinely around $99. A great set if the fit is right and you'd likely need better tips. The tips they give are absolutely awful. Sound is fantastic, ANC is fantastic, ldac and a great transparency mode, great app.... Can't really beat it. Truthfully though if the H1 aren't that great to you than my question would be.... What sound signature are you after? Not many sub $100 are that much better than the H1 when SQ is concerned so I'm wondering if the signature just isn't sitting well with you? You can also find the Galaxy Buds Pro on sale for around $100 from time to time. The Nuarl N6 Pro are around $100 as well. I'll try to think of more


----------



## Ceeluh7

erockg said:


> Sparks sound is wonderful, but no volume controls.  Also, the fit is just plan weird.  Not very ergonomic.  I wound up returning them.  But your ears may be different


Ya I felt the same as you about the volume controls... Hate that. Sound is nice though.


----------



## ElKabong

Ceeluh7 said:


> Ya I felt the same as you about the volume controls... Hate that. Sound is nice though.


Picked​


Ceeluh7 said:


> Ya I felt the same as you about the volume controls... Hate that. Sound is nice though.


Picked up a pair of Sabbat E16 Wireless, open box off of ebay, looked like nothing was touched except the box the manual was in. Half the price.
So far they sound pretty good, haven't tried the mic yet to see how calls go.


----------



## vrsx

anyone own both buds+ & buds2? how's the sound comparison?

im trying to finds tws to use at gym, after some searching i think buds+ fit the best for me but i heard the treble quite harsh & shouty? and some other said they both sound pretty similar...

or maybe any other recommendation at that price?


----------



## assassin10000

Sam L said:


> Need recommendations...
> 
> I've been on the lookout for a semi in-ear tws forever, like the airpods. (which I have, but still, we needs more, right?)
> 
> ...



Convert some earbuds to mmcx and pair with utws5?


----------



## james444

Sam L said:


> Need recommendations...
> 
> I've been on the lookout for a semi in-ear tws forever, like the airpods. (which I have, but still, we needs more, right?)
> 
> ...



Oppo Enco Air 2 sound pretty amazing, except for a 8kHz spike that needs EQ. Good detail resolution, tight bass. Better than Fiil CC imo.
Also, these sound very good for the asking price: https://www.amazon.co.jp/gp/product/B09M3MK1QG/?th=1 and don't need EQ. Easily the best semi in-ears in terms of sound quality for money that I've tried. Connection stability outside the house is a tad wonky though, due to short stems.


----------



## Ceeluh7

ElKabong said:


> Picked​
> Picked up a pair of Sabbat E16 Wireless, open box off of ebay, looked like nothing was touched except the box the manual was in. Half the price.
> So far they sound pretty good, haven't tried the mic yet to see how calls go.


The E16 need burned in... Or listened in. They absolutely get better with usage. At first I didn't like them at all. They were too bright with a metallic treble. After about a few days maybe they settled down and are so very dynamic. Sabbat did great on this set. It Def leans brighter than neutral with great kick in the bass but not bass heavy. Nice man!


----------



## Sam L

Did a search here for the bose sport open earbuds, only one hit. Any opinions?


----------



## Juturna

Ceeluh7 said:


> Honestly man... You are looking under $100. Another set that sounds fantastic is the Lypertek Soundfree S20 which normally sells for around $50 here. Looking at your list you've covered most sets. I can't remember if you had Tanchjim Echo on your list or not. Also, now that I think of it. Edifier Neobuds Pro have been discounted here routinely around $99. A great set if the fit is right and you'd likely need better tips. The tips they give are absolutely awful. Sound is fantastic, ANC is fantastic, ldac and a great transparency mode, great app.... Can't really beat it. Truthfully though if the H1 aren't that great to you than my question would be.... What sound signature are you after? Not many sub $100 are that much better than the H1 when SQ is concerned so I'm wondering if the signature just isn't sitting well with you? You can also find the Galaxy Buds Pro on sale for around $100 from time to time. The Nuarl N6 Pro are around $100 as well. I'll try to think of more


The Soundfree are around $85 here, not worth it I THINK, the Z3 are only $20 more so at that price i don't think the Soundfree are worth it? At $50 i would snatch them up right away.

Edifier Neobuds are $150 on Amazon here, also too expensive. 
Tanchjim Echo I would try but they're going to be too expensive after paying shipping + import tax + customs fee. 
Nuarls are ****ing impossible to get here as well. 

The H1s are just too damn "smooth" in my opinion. They sound good but it's like they've scooped out all the life of the tracks. 

I honestly don't exactly know, but I enjoy balanced sound that sounds true to recordings but with some slight extra oomph to that sub-bass when needed, but no mid-bass bloat and i like clear mids where the vocals can shine but without stealing the spotlight from the treble either, but i can be sensitive towards sibilance, so... Maybe slightly Harman target-ish? 

What about the Creative Outlier V3? Not sure about it only having AAC and SBC though.


----------



## Luke Skywalker

vrsx said:


> anyone own both buds+ & buds2? how's the sound comparison?
> 
> im trying to finds tws to use at gym, after some searching i think buds+ fit the best for me but i heard the treble quite harsh & shouty? and some other said they both sound pretty similar...
> 
> or maybe any other recommendation at that price?


I use 3 different TWS at the gym: NUARL N6P, Klipsch Mcclaren, and B&O EQ


----------



## X-Nemesis

Haven't checked this thread in a while, any new $50 range sport buds with Wings for security that are best Bang for Buck currently?


----------



## scubaphish

I’ve been listening to my RMA B&O EQs for a few hours and they are pretty, pretty nice. I see what y’all are talking about. I couldn’t be happier that the first (amazon used) set bricked from the firmware update. I’m not a/b‘ing them yet, just listening to them on their own; blend of music but mostly Miles Davis this am. So far, I’d call their sound very well balanced and clean. Nice instrument separation but not as much air between them as I’d expect (ok, I’m comparing to the Gemini here). Staging is nice, but there’s a channel on the left that sometimes seems “physically” low.  Hoping things open a little more as I play them more.  That said, nice detail and clarity.
I know I’m not first to say it, guess I just didn’t really believe it, they really do seem to draw a lot of power by way of higher volume for same loudness.
As far as fit, medium stocks seem to work. I don’t feel like they’re in terribly securely, like when I walk around they feel a little loose, but when I go to adjust/tighten them they feel like they’re in there. Speaking of adjusting, hard not to hit those volume controls when moving these things around in your ears. I’ll get used to it I’m sure.
In short, I continue to spoil my ears with wonderful sounding earphones.


----------



## Ceeluh7

Juturna said:


> The Soundfree are around $85 here, not worth it I THINK, the Z3 are only $20 more so at that price i don't think the Soundfree are worth it? At $50 i would snatch them up right away.
> 
> Edifier Neobuds are $150 on Amazon here, also too expensive.
> Tanchjim Echo I would try but they're going to be too expensive after paying shipping + import tax + customs fee.
> ...


Gotcha. Ya stuff I guess isn't as expensive in the States... At least the stuff I've mentioned. I haven't tried the outlier v3 but I would not be scared at AAC at all. There is not much of a difference at all between AAC and aptx for example. It's really all about the housing, drivers, SOC and how it all is implemented (tuning) which make the biggest difference. I have the outlier gold and I can tell you that they are slightly V-shaped with a bit recessed midrange but not overly boomy... At all. Sub bass focused low end. Maybe a hair thin through the midrange but decent resolution and those came out almost 3 years ago. I really hope you find what you are looking for man and I'm sure someone here can point you in the right direction.


----------



## BooleanBones

scubaphish said:


> As far as fit, medium stocks seem to work. I don’t feel like they’re in terribly securely, like when I walk around they feel a little loose, but when I go to adjust/tighten them they feel like they’re in there. Speaking of adjusting, hard not to hit those volume controls when moving these things around in your ears. I’ll get used to it I’m sure.
> In short, I continue to spoil my ears with wonderful sounding earphones.


I had a similar experience with the stock tips. Once I swapped tips, they felt a bit more secure for sure. Might give it a whirl if you have some favorites laying around. Glad to hear you are enjoying their sparkle.


----------



## vrsx

Luke Skywalker said:


> I use 3 different TWS at the gym: NUARL N6P, Klipsch Mcclaren, and B&O EQ


lol, why though?

hmm just search them just now , and all of them looks big .... i have small ears, have many problems with iem fitting


----------



## erockg

I had a dumb wild hair and picked up the B&O E8 3rd Gen.  Price was too good.  Had them a while back and they left a soft spot in my heart.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B08239KK8M/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o03_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

$249 less $100 off for $149.  Put some Azla tips on them and they're great!


----------



## jant71

Ceeluh7 said:


> The E16 need burned in... Or listened in. They absolutely get better with usage. At first I didn't like them at all. They were too bright with a metallic treble. After about a few days maybe they settled down and are so very dynamic. Sabbat did great on this set. It Def leans brighter than neutral with great kick in the bass but not bass heavy. Nice man!


Yep, some burn in and the right tips. Trying to think if they still rank in my top 5 though. Gonna put the N6 pro 2 ahead. Lavabeans as well. Yamaha of course as they might be my number 1. CKS50TW with the right tips and screens removed. Elite 3, Victor, E16 vying for that 5th spot perhaps But they all did their own thing. Victor had the best bass of those while the Elite 3 was natural and quality all round, and the E16 had the detail and energy. Actually I forget the Cleer goal so that take the 5th spot. The semi open Cleer with Aptx and a good driver is big free clean and detailed. Way underrated for the sound but you have to fit it right with the fins.


----------



## Ceeluh7 (Apr 9, 2022)

jant71 said:


> Yep, some burn in and the right tips. Trying to think if they still rank in my top 5 though. Gonna put the N6 pro 2 ahead. Lavabeans as well. Yamaha of course as they might be my number 1. CKS50TW with the right tips and screens removed. Elite 3, Victor, E16 vying for that 5th spot perhaps But they all did their own thing. Victor had the best bass of those while the Elite 3 was natural and quality all round, and the E16 had the detail and energy. Actually I forget the Cleer goal so that take the 5th spot. The semi open Cleer with Aptx and a good driver is big free clean and detailed. Way underrated for the sound but you have to fit it right with the fins.


Ya I agree. Prob not in my top 5 but I am trying to help that guy out from a conversation prior to that and was running out of options that are under $100 that I have actually owned and heard... Lol. Nothing works😅. That's a great listing you have so far. I still haven't picked up the n6 pro 2. If it's anything even remotely close to the n6 pro (which I've heard it is slightly better all the way around) than it's a no brainer. Haven't checked out the Yamaha yet either... What model is that again? I know you and a couple others talked about them some pages back.


----------



## Ceeluh7

erockg said:


> I had a dumb wild hair and picked up the B&O E8 3rd Gen.  Price was too good.  Had them a while back and they left a soft spot in my heart.
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B08239KK8M/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o03_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
> 
> $249 less $100 off for $149.  Put some Azla tips on them and they're great!


How do they stack up to your favs at this point. Oh dude... BTW... I finally picked up a pair of fokus pros'... I don't even have to say it... They truly are fantastic


----------



## BooleanBones

Ceeluh7 said:


> How do they stack up to your favs at this point. Oh dude... BTW... I finally picked up a pair of fokus pros'... I don't even have to say it... They truly are fantastic


You stick with the stock tips on the Fokus or changed them out?


----------



## Luke Skywalker

assassin10000 said:


> Convert some earbuds to mmcx and pair with utws5?


Yaya! can’t for my utws5 and Monarch Mkii to arrive


----------



## Luke Skywalker

Ceeluh7 said:


> How do they stack up to your favs at this point. Oh dude... BTW... I finally picked up a pair of fokus pros'... I don't even have to say it... They truly are fantastic


I am soooo tempted but the lack of ANC is what’s holding me back. How’s the “passive“ isolation?  I’m guessing they have a hear through mode?


----------



## doboo57

Anyone tried both ZE3000 and Melomania Touch?
I’m torn between these two models…


----------



## BooleanBones

Luke Skywalker said:


> I am soooo tempted but the lack of ANC is what’s holding me back. How’s the “passive“ isolation?  I’m guessing they have a hear through mode?


I think the passive isolation is very good with these. With the stock tips and a good seal, I was listening to Eric Clapton next to some construction workers cutting rebar with a gas cutoff saw. Could hear it, but it was quite quiet. I have also used them with the vacuum cleaner and hardly heard it. No ambient/hear through with them (yet).


----------



## jant71 (Apr 9, 2022)

Ceeluh7 said:


> Ya I agree. Prob not in my top 5 but I am trying to help that guy out from a conversation prior to that and was running out of options that are under $100 that I have actually owned and heard... Lol. Nothing works😅. That's a great listing you have so far. I still haven't picked up the n6 pro 2. If it's anything even remotely close to the n6 pro (which I've heard it is slightly better all the way around) than it's a no brainer. Haven't checked out the Yamaha yet either... What model is that again? I know you and a couple others talked about them some pages back.


TWE5B. A bit along the lines of the Nuarl. Like the controls set up better and they fit better than the nuarl and no so heavy in the ear. Even though it is funny to say but they are less "there" when in the ear and it is more comfy and I find them more stable. Both around the same price, similar shape, Japanese, have ambient but not ANC. Think the Yammy are more real sounding even though both are technically good. Nuarl is clean but not as tonally correct. N6 Pro 2 has a bit too thick bass with the stock tips and needs to change to have better balance while the Yammy need tips to give more bass than the stock for me anyhow. Different direction to get near the same place for me. Can't go wrong with either.  Really would not surprise me if, after the "A" series, Yamaha used the Nuarl N6 as some inspiration for the new design even though they certainly tweaked it toward what they wanted


----------



## dweaver

Ceeluh7 said:


> How do they stack up to your favs at this point. Oh dude... BTW... I finally picked up a pair of fokus pros'... I don't even have to say it... They truly are fantastic


Those look darn tempting! I have a feeling they would be the TWS that stack up against the Fiio UTWS5/FH5 for me. But that's a bit to rich for me at the moment. Need to win the lottery LOL.


----------



## Ceeluh7

BooleanBones said:


> You stick with the stock tips on the Fokus or changed them out?


Switched them out about 5 different times. Lol. I landed on some wide bore, short stem eartips. The other set which you can get off of Amazon is the Tenmak whirlwind eartips which sound to me just as good. I've had the Fokus for about 5-6 days now and I do like a wide bore on this set alot. I used spinfit, final audio tips, Fiio tips but the Fokus seem more open with tips like the Tenmak pair.


----------



## Ceeluh7

dweaver said:


> Those look darn tempting! I have a feeling they would be the TWS that stack up against the Fiio UTWS5/FH5 for me. But that's a bit to rich for me at the moment. Need to win the lottery LOL.


I wouldn't go that far but of course that also depends on what iem you pair with the utws5. Im going to do a review of this set for a Facebook group and pair it against some sets that I know real well... Spoiler... The Fokus win. Lol. Honestly the utws5 with a good iem and there's no match, the amps and dac withing are just too revealing and dynamic. However, dude I love the Fokus, they really are fantastic


----------



## Ceeluh7

jant71 said:


> TWE5B. A bit along the lines of the Nuarl. Like the controls set up better and they fit better than the nuarl and no so heavy in the ear. Even though it is funny to say but they are less "there" when in the ear and it is more comfy and I find them more stable. Both around the same price, similar shape, Japanese, have ambient but not ANC. Think the Yammy are more real sounding even though both are technically good. Nuarl is clean but not as tonally correct. N6 Pro 2 has a bit too thick bass with the stock tips and needs to change to have better balance while the Yammy need tips to give more bass than the stock for me anyhow. Different direction to get near the same place for me. Can't go wrong with either.  Really would not surprise me if, after the "A" series, Yamaha used the Nuarl N6 as some inspiration for the new design even though they certainly tweaked it toward what they wanted


That was a perfect response for me. Thanks man. You told me everything I'd want to know. I agree about the n6 pro as well, partially why they aren't in my go to lineup. Thank you


----------



## Ceeluh7

Luke Skywalker said:


> I am soooo tempted but the lack of ANC is what’s holding me back. How’s the “passive“ isolation?  I’m guessing they have a hear through mode?


This set has next to nothing... Lol. A fantastic app... They have that...lol. Truthfully, they don't need anc, because the passive isolation, at least for me, is better than some anc sets. This is strictly a SQ tws.


----------



## BooleanBones

Ceeluh7 said:


> This set has next to nothing... Lol. A fantastic app... They have that...lol. Truthfully, they don't need anc, because the passive isolation, at least for me, is better than some anc sets. This is strictly a SQ tws.


They do have touch controls, which I never mention as I never use them (maybe play/pause). Totally agree on the app, it's simple and great.


----------



## Ceeluh7

BooleanBones said:


> They do have touch controls, which I never mention as I never use them (maybe play/pause). Totally agree on the app, it's simple and great.


Ah... Very true. They do have all the touch controls you'd need... Specifically... Volume controls!


----------



## Luke Skywalker

You guys have convinced me… ordering them today and I’ll prob grab the Tenmak whirlwind eartips!

Where’s a good place to order the buds in USA?   they don’t seem to be for sale on Amazon

 only question in my mind is whether or not to cancel the Falcon ANCs I preorder


----------



## erockg (Apr 9, 2022)

Ceeluh7 said:


> How do they stack up to your favs at this point. Oh dude... BTW... I finally picked up a pair of fokus pros'... I don't even have to say it... They truly are fantastic


For TWS, the Fokus and the EQ are still my fav.  The E8 3G to still hold their own.  Been enjoying them today.  EQ sound better, but for $150, they are very nice.  Of course, I can't really compare them to my Monarch MK2 and even the Midnight.  Those are my alone time fun with no distractions.  Been using the Linkbuds at the office and they're really working out great.  Nice to hear what's going on with a little background tunes.  That said, a few times, I thought there was music playing from someone else and turns out it was only me .


----------



## Sam L

james444 said:


> Oppo Enco Air 2 sound pretty amazing, except for a 8kHz spike that needs EQ. Good detail resolution, tight bass. Better than Fiil CC imo.
> Also, these sound very good for the asking price: https://www.amazon.co.jp/gp/product/B09M3MK1QG/?th=1 and don't need EQ. Easily the best semi in-ears in terms of sound quality for money that I've tried. Connection stability outside the house is a tad wonky though, due to short stems.


Thank you for the suggestion. Ordered. I'm a big fan of the oppo w51. Looking forward to air 2


----------



## Sam L

erockg said:


> For TWS, the Fokus and the EQ are still my fav.  The E8 3G to still hold their own.  Been enjoying them today.  EQ sound better, but for $150, they are very nice.  Of course, I can't really compare them to my Monarch MK2 and even the Midnight.  Those are my alone time fun with no distractions.  Been using the Linkbuds at the office and they're really working out great.  Nice to hear what's going on with a little background tunes.  That said, a few times, I thought there was music playing from someone else and turns out it was only me .


I have come to really appreciate the linkbuds for certain use cases. Fit, for me, is perfect. I can wear them for hours with no discomfort. I've also looked around because the staging in the linkbuds are unique.


----------



## Luke Skywalker

Found them   I bought some isolation foam tips the B&O EQ too


----------



## Ceeluh7

Luke Skywalker said:


> You guys have convinced me… ordering them today and I’ll prob grab the Tenmak whirlwind eartips!
> 
> Where’s a good place to order the buds in USA?   they don’t seem to be for sale on Amazon
> 
> only question in my mind is whether or not to cancel the Falcon ANCs I preorder


I got mine on Amazon. They were there last week. Did you look up "noble audio fokus pro"... I know Amazon kept turning me to "noble audio focus pro" with a "c". Audio 46 has them as well.


----------



## Ceeluh7

erockg said:


> For TWS, the Fokus and the EQ are still my fav.  The E8 3G to still hold their own.  Been enjoying them today.  EQ sound better, but for $150, they are very nice.  Of course, I can't really compare them to my Monarch MK2 and even the Midnight.  Those are my alone time fun with no distractions.  Been using the Linkbuds at the office and they're really working out great.  Nice to hear what's going on with a little background tunes.  That said, a few times, I thought there was music playing from someone else and turns out it was only me .


I am likely picking up the midnight...i didn't like the original Yume at all but I've read enough reviews about the midnight correcting all the originals issues. Also, ya no tws on planet earth is dethroning the Monarch mk2... Lol. So have any updates corrected the volume issue of the eq?


----------



## Luke Skywalker

Ceeluh7 said:


> I am likely picking up the midnight...i didn't like the original Yume at all but I've read enough reviews about the midnight correcting all the originals issues. Also, ya no tws on planet earth is dethroning the Monarch mk2... Lol. So have any updates corrected the volume issue of the eq?


@erockg loves his midnights. I think he uses them with the Shure adapters. I’m def getting a pair.  Tempted to use them with the UTSW3 I have handy.


----------



## erockg

Ceeluh7 said:


> I am likely picking up the midnight...i didn't like the original Yume at all but I've read enough reviews about the midnight correcting all the originals issues. Also, ya no tws on planet earth is dethroning the Monarch mk2... Lol. So have any updates corrected the volume issue of the eq?


I'm on the latest firmware with the EQ and have zero issues.  I put Azla tips on them as well and just love them.  They do get plenty loud for me, but I'm not sure if it's the fw update or the seal but they do sound a tad louder than I remember.  In fact, sitting here right now for a moment with the E8 and damed if they're not a bit louder than last I remember.  I'm a total sucker for Bang & Olufsen.


----------



## Ceeluh7

Luke Skywalker said:


> @erockg loves his midnights. I think he uses them with the Shure adapters. I’m def getting a pair.  Tempted to use them with the UTSW3 I have handy.


Ya I was going to get them a couple weeks back but instead picked up the Fiio fh9. Also I have been so caught up in the Tripowin Olina that it's been hard to peel myself away from them. I saw how well the yume would be if tuned slightly differnt and I think the midnight may have maxed out the tuning there with Crinacle at the helm. The Utws3 would drive them really well... Good choice.


----------



## Ceeluh7

erockg said:


> I'm on the latest firmware with the EQ and have zero issues.  I put Azla tips on them as well and just love them.  They do get plenty loud for me, but I'm not sure if it's the fw update or the seal but they do sound a tad louder than I remember.  In fact, sitting here right now for a moment with the E8 and damed if they're not a bit louder than last I remember.  I'm a total sucker for Bang & Olufsen.


Ya tempted to pick up the EQ as well. You really don't see any issues as far as sound goes and B&O have always known how to tune a set.


----------



## Luke Skywalker

Ceeluh7 said:


> Ya I was going to get them a couple weeks back but instead picked up the Fiio fh9. Also I have been so caught up in the Tripowin Olina that it's been hard to peel myself away from them. I saw how well the yume would be if tuned slightly differnt and I think the midnight may have maxed out the tuning there with Crinacle at the helm. The Utws3 would drive them really well... Good choice.


That’s great thank you. The -3s are just sitting in a drawer because when i connect my Lola’s the damned case won’t close. I got sick of pulling the buds off with the adapters I have every time I needed to charge 

ha so the million dollar question… do you guys think the Midnight would fit in the -3 case and let it close completely?


----------



## Luke Skywalker

This is totally random… I don’t know why everyone busts on MQA. I just listened to “Something” (Beatles) on Qobuz and then the same track on Tidal Master. It’s not even close…


----------



## dweaver

@Ceeluh7 how are you liking the FH9. I am tempted to get them since I like the FH5 so much. Are they a worthy upgrade?


----------



## Ceeluh7

Luke Skywalker said:


> That’s great thank you. The -3s are just sitting in a drawer because when i connect my Lola’s the damned case won’t close. I got sick of pulling the buds off with the adapters I have every time I needed to charge
> 
> ha so the million dollar question… do you guys think the Midnight would fit in the -3 case and let it close completely?


I would imagine they would fit perfect


----------



## Ceeluh7

dweaver said:


> @Ceeluh7 how are you liking the FH9. I am tempted to get them since I like the FH5 so much. Are they a worthy upgrade?


Um... Absolutely. There is such a nice 3d element to the FH9. Not overdone low end, beautiful mids and sparkly highs. Really one of the best cables that comes with any set of iems. Once this set burns in they are ridiculous man. The Fh5 are one of those sets that are just tuned so well, balanced and good throughout but the FH9 just take it all up a notch. Huge soundstage as well from being semi open back.


----------



## Ceeluh7

Luke Skywalker said:


> This is totally random… I don’t know why everyone busts on MQA. I just listened to “Something” (Beatles) on Qobuz and then the same track on Tidal Master. It’s not even close…


Mqa can be awesome. Many mqa tracks don't live up to the hype but some absolutely do


----------



## dweaver (Apr 9, 2022)

Ceeluh7 said:


> Um... Absolutely. There is such a nice 3d element to the FH9. Not overdone low end, beautiful mids and sparkly highs. Really one of the best cables that comes with any set of iems. Once this set burns in they are ridiculous man. The Fh5 are one of those sets that are just tuned so well, balanced and good throughout but the FH9 just take it all up a notch. Huge soundstage as well from being semi open back.


Excellent! I thinks I am going to bow out of the TWS hunt and enjoy what I own and start to save for the FH9 and watch for a good deal.

Which color did you get? I like my titanium FH5 but without the gold trim I think I would prefer the black for FH9.


----------



## LordToneeus

Ceeluh7 said:


> Ya I was going to get them a couple weeks back but instead picked up the Fiio fh9. Also I have been so caught up in the Tripowin Olina that it's been hard to peel myself away from them. I saw how well the yume would be if tuned slightly differnt and I think the midnight may have maxed out the tuning there with Crinacle at the helm. The Utws3 would drive them really well... Good choice.


Got my Olina’s today. Soooo good, and pretty too.


----------



## Asabides

Just got the Technics AZ60 in a couple of days ago. They sound incredible. Great with truly lossless content in addition to streaming services like Apple Music. Through a testing session I compared my Bowers & Wilkins Pi7 against the AZ60. While I haven’t tested either the B&O EQ nor the Noble Fokus Pro, I now have tested the Technics and have been able to compare them against my Fiil, Pi7 and Sony wh-1000xm4. Overall, the sound quality of the AZ60 is easily superior to the Sony and the Fiil iems. The Technics have better sound isolation and call quality to the Pi7.  The 1000xm4 have better sound isolation of the group but I’m quite happy with the Technics app. The app for the Pi7 is anything but robust. 

Overall, sound quality goes to the Pi7. I guess I am one of the lucky few with a Pi7 without major connection or battery issues. My Pi7 have been mostly issue free. The Pi7 have superior low and mid bass compared to the TWS I have tested thus far. I prefer the mid and highs of the Technics but even without an EQ, the Pi7 just sound better. Though, I can easily see why many reviewers have the Technics in their overall top 5 TWS iems. They are truly great and sound amazing. I just wish the bass were better and I assume the bass on the B&O EQ and the Noble Fokus Pro are superior to the Technics. I would love it if Technics updated the app or firmware on the AZ60 to produce better bass, as I suspect given the specs of the Technics, would be possible.

For $229 the Technics are worth every penny. I was personally looking for an option with LDAC and looking for iems under $250. Unless you can find a used or on-sale Pi7, B&O EQ, or Noble Fokus Pro for under $300 I think the Technics are probably going to be your best bet. Next up I hope to purchase the Soundcore Liberty Pro 3 or JVC HA-FW1000T and do another comparison.


----------



## Ceeluh7

dweaver said:


> Excellent! I thinks I am going to bow out of the TWS hunt and enjoy what I own and start to save for the FH9 and watch for a good deal.
> 
> Which color did you get? I like my titanium FH5 but without the gold trim I think I would prefer the black for FH9.


I got the silver colored set. It just looks tough to me. Though that black is awesome. The only other set that I was in the market for was the Fiio FD7... Same price and also a fiio top of the line. Good deals are out there for sure, they will start to drop very soon


----------



## Juturna (Apr 10, 2022)

Okay, I've narrowed down my selection for cheap-ish earbuds and I've landed on:

Earfun Air Pro SV - $58
Galaxy Buds Pro - $110
Galaxy Buds 2 - $95
Melomania 1+ - $79
Creative Outlier V3 - $48
Lypertek Pureplay Z3 (maybe Z5) - $110
Soundpeats Mini Pro - $51

Anyone have any experience here and could weigh in on which is best purely regarding SQ?


----------



## dmphile

dweaver said:


> @Ceeluh7 how are you liking the FH9. I am tempted to get them since I like the FH5 so much. Are they a worthy upgrade?


I had the FH9 for about a month. Loved their tuning and bass impact. Mids were slightly brought back but not with any less detail. It's an overall warm tonality with slight edginess to the treble in certain genres and songs. Great soundstage and very dynamic. I would have kept them if I had not discovered CFA's Dorado 2020.


----------



## Ceeluh7

dmphile said:


> I had the FH9 for about a month. Loved their tuning and bass impact. Mids were slightly brought back but not with any less detail. It's an overall warm tonality with slight edginess to the treble in certain genres and songs. Great soundstage and very dynamic. I would have kept them if I had not discovered CFA's Dorado 2020.


I don't blame you one bit... Cool man


----------



## erockg

B&O Beoplay EX images:

https://forum.beoworld.org/forums/topic/beoplay-ex-2/


----------



## Ceeluh7

Juturna said:


> Okay, I've narrowed down my selection for cheap-ish earbuds and I've landed on:
> 
> Earfun Air Pro SV - $58
> Galaxy Buds Pro - $110
> ...


I have the GBP, Melo 1+, Z3 and Mini Pro and out of those.... For me personally.... The Melo 1+ is the best in SQ slightly edging the Z3. Overall best would be the GBP. Best value would be the Mini Pro... That set is fantastic.


----------



## Juturna (Apr 10, 2022)

Ceeluh7 said:


> I have the GBP, Melo 1+, Z3 and Mini Pro and out of those.... For me personally.... The Melo 1+ is the best in SQ slightly edging the Z3. Overall best would be the GBP. Best value would be the Mini Pro... That set is fantastic.


Thank you!
I'm kinda looking for another set because... Well, because. My Technics are in for repair, using my Devialet Geminis now in the meantime. I'm pretty happy with the Technics AZ60 as an overall headset so I'm thinking that I want something complementary that's mostly focused on SQ but obviously without being completely useless because it has a bunch of stuttering and prefer if it doesn't sound like I'm making phone calls through a potato or something.
The Devialets are good with EQ but I just feel like they lack a bit in clarity and the bass isn't fast and a bit too boomy, and I'm missing a bit human warmth in the mids on vocals etc.
Really good for electronic music no doubt, but not the best for more acoustic, ambient, guitar-based music, and my music taste is wiiiide.

Also the have Soundpeats H1, T2, Sennheiser MTW2, Earfun Free Pro Oluv Edition and 1more Comfobuds Pro. I feel like the Devialet covers the ANC bit quite well and Technics does well with calls and ANC so I don't specifically need something for those use cases.

So with those in mind, anything that strikes you as a "Ah, then I would recommend this set!"???

Edit: Well, logic says that i don't need any more earbuds at all, but we all know what it's about...


----------



## cresny

erockg said:


> B&O Beoplay EX images:
> 
> https://forum.beoworld.org/forums/topic/beoplay-ex-2/


Once upon a time I had a B&O wired handset that had unrivaled conversation clarity. I'm still waiting for the equivalent in IEMs, and NC is a big part of the equation. I'm currently using LG FP9, which are pretty good voice quality and excellent battery life, but the noise canceling is barely passable, probably as much to do with weak passive NC as much as middling ANC. Possibly the EX could be the one?


----------



## dweaver

dmphile said:


> I had the FH9 for about a month. Loved their tuning and bass impact. Mids were slightly brought back but not with any less detail. It's an overall warm tonality with slight edginess to the treble in certain genres and songs. Great soundstage and very dynamic. I would have kept them if I had not discovered CFA's Dorado 2020.


Those look very nice. But are even more expensive!!! Doh!


----------



## erockg

cresny said:


> Once upon a time I had a B&O wired handset that had unrivaled conversation clarity. I'm still waiting for the equivalent in IEMs, and NC is a big part of the equation. I'm currently using LG FP9, which are pretty good voice quality and excellent battery life, but the noise canceling is barely passable, probably as much to do with weak passive NC as much as middling ANC. Possibly the EX could be the one?


Looks like these may be it according to the specs.  Fingers crossed!


----------



## VICosPhi

erockg said:


> B&O Beoplay EX images:
> 
> https://forum.beoworld.org/forums/topic/beoplay-ex-2/


Exciting. The stem design _should _give pretty good mic quality on these for calls. Hope they add a mute button as well to make it complete. EQs were not very comfortable in my ears so these should be a welcome change. The design itself looks muted though. I prefer Edifier's stem design instead.


----------



## Tommy C

erockg said:


> B&O Beoplay EX images:
> 
> https://forum.beoworld.org/forums/topic/beoplay-ex-2/


 Looks hella outdated imo. Was expecting something really sleek and elegant 😄


----------



## cresny

Tommy C said:


> Looks hella outdated imo. Was expecting something really sleek and elegant 😄


Given every mic test I've seen, I'd say these are more like Back to the Future.


----------



## natalieann

VICosPhi said:


> Exciting. The stem design _should _give pretty good mic quality on these for calls. Hope they add a mute button as well to make it complete. EQs were not very comfortable in my ears so these should be a welcome change. The design itself looks muted though. I prefer Edifier's stem design instead.


I have spent more money on B&O products then I would like to admit, but these are embarrassing. Way to take the Apple bait. I really hope these aren’t for real. They will BOMB, and sales will be horrendous


----------



## dmphile (Apr 10, 2022)

dweaver said:


> Those look very nice. But are even more expensive!!! Doh!


Ya, I bit the bullet and figured I could return them if they weren't a significant upgrade over the FH9's but man...I was pleasantly surprised. I wasn't a believer in $1K+ IEMs but the Dorado's have proven me wrong. Once you pass the $1K range, I think it definitely takes it up a few notches in audio fidelity. There are guys in the Watercooler thread that are invested in SummitFi levels, going for $3K+ USD IEMS which is another level. I've yet to hear some of them in that range but since I'm on the VE and FIR tours, I'll have the privilege to try them out before hand. But as of now, I am content with the Dorado's performance but I am afraid what the VE and FIR IEMS will do to me and my wallet....


----------



## clerkpalmer

natalieann said:


> I have spent more money on B&O products then I would like to admit, but these are embarrassing. Way to take the Apple bait. I really hope these aren’t for real. They will BOMB, and sales will be horrendous


I think this is a bit of an overreaction. If they sound anything like the EQ and have good call quality, they will do fine. The stem is just physics. If you want good call quality you need it. B&O has a solid track record of above-average to great products. Let’s see how they sound before condemning them. The colors are cool.


----------



## Tenlow

The Beoplay EX look a bit cheap at first glance. Maybe they even want to offer a "cheaper" model with these...

They will, however, likely fit better than the EQ do for many people. Nothing wrong with a stem design per se. My Nothing Ear1 e.g. are one of the most comfortable TWS I've ever used, much more so than the Beoplay EQ. The EQ obviously sound way better but fit and comfort are very important for me. Let's wait and see for how much they will be sold and how good sound and call quality as well as battery life will be.


----------



## Juturna (Apr 11, 2022)

No doubt that earbuds with a stem are comfortable, most of them have a more shallow fitting (for better or worse). Good for comfortability, not always the best for sound though.
Will also probably improve call quality, but I will echo the sentiment that these do not look premium at all. They look about two years old and does not give any vibes to me that say "these will sound great", but as long as they keep building on what they did with the EQs I bet they will sound great.
Doesn't make them less ugly though, obviously.

Edit: The "sand"/beige color was somewhat nice but it's just their stem looking pretty dated, the way it's flat and square like that. Looks like any of the Airpods Pro clones that try to be "fashionable" (while sounding like ass) and cost around $20-60.


----------



## vsg28

Posting here to makes sure people know to *not *buy this: https://www.techpowerup.com/review/sennheiser-cx-true-wireless-earphones/


----------



## Blueshound24

Sorry this is not exactly IEM related. Does anyone have any links for some budget bluetooth earbuds? I like the idea of earbuds rather than IEM for situational awareness.


----------



## scrane

Blueshound24 said:


> Sorry this is not exactly IEM related. Does anyone have any links for some budget bluetooth earbuds? I like the idea of earbuds rather than IEM for situational awareness.


Not budget, but the AirPod3 has really great sound.


----------



## jant71 (Apr 11, 2022)

Blueshound24 said:


> Sorry this is not exactly IEM related. Does anyone have any links for some budget bluetooth earbuds? I like the idea of earbuds rather than IEM for situational awareness.


I have a pair of Cleer Goal for sale for a budget price if you are interested. Really can't beat the price.

JVC has a new pair of budget buds... https://www.us.jvc.com/headphones/wireless_earbuds/ha_a3t/


----------



## TK33

This is what happens when the weather gets nice and I have some down time while in the office....I get the itch again...

I know I was among the naysayers when this first came out and I was going to try to wait to see if Samsung releases a new Galaxy Buds Live 2 later this year but the positive feedback about the Sony Linkbuds on here and the pain in my right ear from IEM use has convinced me.  Hoping these will let my ears breathe a bit more while in the office and walking around NYC.

Haven't spent much time with them yet but I love how small they are and they feel lighter and obviously more open in the ears vs. the Galaxy Buds Live   sound signature is less bass heavy and more to my liking (I mostly used Galaxy Buds Live for calls and not music).  This is perfect for use in the office since I can hear when someone is trying to talk to me and they pause when I start talking (really great feature).  I can't see myself using them on the train though (will still use my PI7 or SE846 for commuting).  If the Linkbuds let me listen to more music during the day and help with the pain in my right ear, I can forgive the lack of wireless charging and will be happy until the next thing comes along.

Photo also included for comparison: Galaxy Buds2, Galaxy Buds Live, Sony Linkbuds, and Shure SE846 with Qudelix 5K (just what I have with me today at the office.  Left the TW2 adapter at home today).


----------



## assassin10000

Blueshound24 said:


> Sorry this is not exactly IEM related. Does anyone have any links for some budget bluetooth earbuds? I like the idea of earbuds rather than IEM for situational awareness.



Sabbat X12 Ultra.


----------



## BooleanBones

TK33 said:


> This is what happens when the weather gets nice and I have some down time while in the office....I get the itch again...


Like they always say.....if ya got an itch, scratch it  The LinkBuds are just crazy small and quite comfortable.


----------



## jant71

Since I am really slowing down in the hobby I have selling much of my stuff. I figure I would ask in here first before making a FS thread about my TWS. Thinking about selling my CKS50TW for $100 plus shipping since it is here in the US now for $149 plus tax. 

Also have My Aviot and JVC as well as the Cleer that has a thread already. If anyone is interested in anything you know what to do!


----------



## go0gle

Can someone recommend a nice custom EQ for the liberty 3 pro?


----------



## jasonb

So today I just received my $47 AKG N400nc and these are a complete steal at this price. I don’t know how or why they are selling them this low but they are definitely well worth $47 plus tax. Anyone that likes the Harmon target needs to try these. These are definitely an improved Samsung Galaxy Buds. I’m terms of just the SQ these are the best true wireless buds I’ve used. Better sounding than the XM3/4, the 1st 3 Galaxy buds, the lypertek Tevi, Melomania Touch, and AirPods Pro.


----------



## Jon995

Ceeluh7 said:


> Almost looks like a lypertek shell. How do they sound?


They look exactly like the Mpow T5 shells. I've put those Aviots on my wishlist, I love the look of the cases and IPX7/8 make for great "showerbuds"


----------



## Sam L

TK33 said:


> LThis is what happens when the weather gets nice and I have some down time while in the office....I get the itch again...
> 
> I know I was among the naysayers when this first came out and I was going to try to wait to see if Samsung releases a new Galaxy Buds Live 2 later this year but the positive feedback about the Sony Linkbuds on here and the pain in my right ear from IEM use has convinced me.  Hoping these will let my ears breathe a bit more while in the office and walking around NYC.
> 
> ...





go0gle said:


> Can someone recommend a nice custom EQ for the liberty 3 pro?


you need additional eq aside from the auto calibrating thingy they have?


----------



## Blueshound24

assassin10000 said:


> Sabbat X12 Ultra.



Do they sit outside the ear canal like an earbud, or in the canal like an IEM? In the pictures it looks like an IEM.


----------



## Not so fat head

vsg28 said:


> Posting here to makes sure people know to *not *buy this: https://www.techpowerup.com/review/sennheiser-cx-true-wireless-earphones/


I bought these for $80 and think they’re not bad at all..  I pair mine with an iPhone 6SE, use the Sennheiser app, and can EQ the sound to whatever I like.
I think that’s great for the price..  I have mine sounding 90% as good as my $300.00 TWS M2’s..
I probably have 20 cheap (under. $50) TWS I’ve picked up at TJ Max and Marshals, they ALL have one thing in common, they’re garbage..
👍


----------



## DigDub

Got the beats studio buds. Was intrigued by it after volume control was implemented in a firmware update.







Surprisingly good sound from beats which used to be known for their boomy muddy bass sound signature of old. The beats studio has punchy bass which doesn't muddy the overall sound. Mids are prominent which brings vocals to the fore. There's a small spike in mid-highs which makes higher pitched vocals and cymbals sound a tad dry and over sparkly, turning down the 4khz band on my Samsung phone fixes this and makes the mid-highs sound more natural.

Noise cancelling is not very strong. Voices such as announcements can still be heard. Low constant humming like engine sounds are muted effectively. Ambient mode sounds natural. There's no option to adjust the level of noise cancelling or ambient mode.

The buds are very comfortable and do not cause any sore spots when wearing them. They have physical buttons instead of touch for controls. So adjusting the buds do not result in accidental operations. A downside to this is it is not good for sleeping sideways as the buttons will be pressed. The buds can be used independently, but unlike most other implementations, the music stops playing whenever one of the buds is put into the case, so I have to press the button on the bud that I'm still using to resume playback.

Firmware update implementation is Apple's way. Like on iOS, there is no option to manually force an update on Android devices using the beats app. You have to wait for the beats app to notify you that there's an update available, which can be quite random. The update transfer to the buds took a few minutes. The buds will then update on it's own, which may take up to an hour and there is no indication of the update progress. I feel beats can do better on it's firmware update process to keep users informed of the progress.

Overall, I feel the beats studio buds are well worth the money. They are not super expensive and competes with the Samsung galaxy buds 2 in terms of feature and price. I prefer the beats studio over the galaxy buds 2, mainly because the beats studio has a better sound quality over the buds 2.


----------



## assassin10000

Blueshound24 said:


> Do they sit outside the ear canal like an earbud, or in the canal like an IEM? In the pictures it looks like an IEM.



Shaped like an iem, driver like an earbud/airpod.






If you found pics of the Sabbat E12, that's an iem. The X12 is the earbud.


----------



## JoshG1217 (Apr 12, 2022)

h1a8 said:


> So far the best sounding (out of the box) tws sets are
> 1. Beoplay eq (just not loud enough on some tracks) Note: They are not worth $400. $250-300 is about right.
> 2. akg n400 (tonally almost perfect but technically needs more resolution)
> 3. Status Between pro (no transparent or anc though but the loudest and passive nc is close to good anc).
> ...


In side by side, the xm4 definitely beat the EQ. Both the EQ and PI7 are way overhyped. I wanted them to be better than the Sony xm4. They just aren't. I went as far as to buy the ier z1r and an ifi go blu and it was only a mild improvement over the xm4, which is nuts (z1r onviouslt scales qith a better source). I just ordered the devialet Gemeni and MW08 to compare. At this point I've owned dozens and nothing has beat the xm4. Azla sedna and crystal tips recommended for best sound. Running Tidal and power amp with stereo turned up to 25% its just tough to beat


----------



## 7Lions

dmphile said:


> I had the FH9 for about a month. Loved their tuning and bass impact. Mids were slightly brought back but not with any less detail. It's an overall warm tonality with slight edginess to the treble in certain genres and songs. Great soundstage and very dynamic. I would have kept them if I had not discovered CFA's Dorado 2020.


 
Do you mind expanding upon that and what made you choose the Dorado 2020 over the FH9? Also which set has the bigger/better soundstage? I'm a soundstage junky and loved the wide holographic tuning of the FH9, but unfortunately, they had to go back cause the right side driver seemed to be defective. So I'm wondering if I should order another one or potentially look at something else.


----------



## productred

JoshG1217 said:


> In side by side, the xm4 definitely beat the EQ. Both the EQ and PI7 are way overhyped. I wanted them to be better than the Sony xm4. They just aren't. I went as far as to buy the ier z1r and an ifi go blu and it was only a mild improvement over the xm4, which is nuts (z1r onviouslt scales qith a better source). I just ordered the devialet Gemeni and MW08 to compare. At this point I've owned dozens and nothing has beat the xm4. Azla sedna and crystal tips recommended for best sound. Running Tidal and power amp with stereo turned up to 25% its just tough to beat



IMHO the FW1000t sound a fair bit better than the XM4, YMMV but no harm trying that out I guess.


----------



## Ceeluh7

jasonb said:


> So today I just received my $47 AKG N400nc and these are a complete steal at this price. I don’t know how or why they are selling them this low but they are definitely well worth $47 plus tax. Anyone that likes the Harmon target needs to try these. These are definitely an improved Samsung Galaxy Buds. I’m terms of just the SQ these are the best true wireless buds I’ve used. Better sounding than the XM3/4, the 1st 3 Galaxy buds, the lypertek Tevi, Melomania Touch, and AirPods Pro.


For sure. They re a fantastic set with a great stage for a tws. Very nice and full sounding. I got that same deal and have had them for about a little over a month and have been very happy with them. Very premium build and look as well.


----------



## regancipher

LinkBuds owners - there is an updated firmware release today that improves adaptive volume control, pairing when speak-to-chat is enabled, and other minor bug fixes.


----------



## JoshG1217

productred said:


> IMHO the FW1000t sound a fair bit better than the XM4, YMMV but no harm trying that out I guess.


I've not heard those. Thanks for the rec


----------



## dmphile (Apr 12, 2022)

7Lions said:


> Do you mind expanding upon that and what made you choose the Dorado 2020 over the FH9? Also which set has the bigger/better soundstage? I'm a soundstage junky and loved the wide holographic tuning of the FH9, but unfortunately, they had to go back cause the right side driver seemed to be defective. So I'm wondering if I should order another one or potentially look at something else.


Dorado 2020 basically takes everything that the FH9's do well and kick it up a few more notches. They have a more dynamic and fun sound with visceral bass and impact both in the mid and sub-bass. I would also say it has a wider and deeper soundstage and better imaging than the FH9.  Vocals still come out clean, detailed and still in front while providing great air and space for the mid-range. Resolution, treble and bass extension is also better. CFA isn't using any weird crossovers for the hybrid setup and they just let the drivers (BA/DD) really shine. It's got a fun musicality that just brings my library to life. Even with poorly recorded songs, the Dorado's bring them back to life. It's the IEM that gets your head bobbing and brings a high degree of fun, emotion and excitement back to music.

Comfort wise, the Dorado's are one of the smallest and most comfortable IEMs I have ever worn. I can wear them for hours without any discomfort and I'm willing to bet that it would be the same experience for 99% of users given the small size and nice rounded edges. The ceramic build is gorgeous and gives the sound an amazing sonic quality that just reverberates within your ear canal.

Of course, if this is the sound signature and coloring that you want with your sound, especially in the bass area, you'll enjoy the Dorado's. They suit my preferences just right. That said, depending on what you're looking for. YMMV.

Ps. I'm using these with the UTWS5 and M11 Plus ESS.


----------



## jant71

Not so fat head said:


> I bought these for $80 and think they’re not bad at all..  I pair mine with an iPhone 6SE, use the Sennheiser app, and can EQ the sound to whatever I like.
> I think that’s great for the price..  I have mine sounding 90% as good as my $300.00 TWS M2’s..
> I probably have 20 cheap (under. $50) TWS I’ve picked up at TJ Max and Marshals, they ALL have one thing in common, they’re garbage..
> 👍



Yep, plenty of fine reviews. They are good and fairly cheap. That "not" buy them thing is why you don't go by one review. The definite thing anyone here should do is find and read as many reviews and impressions as they can or need so they know enough to make a well informed decision.


----------



## FSTOP

Can anyone who has Noble FoKus Pro comment on fitment? Some reviews say it's more of a custom IEM fit, others say it's very large, so not sure if it would even fit my (smallish) ears. Any comparison of size, fit to popular IEMs might help? And any other sound reviews or comments on BT quality, transmission would be helpful. Some say it loses signal a lot they sent it back, so trying to see consensus or just isolated cases. 
Thanks for any suggestions /help!


----------



## Ceeluh7

FSTOP said:


> Can anyone who has Noble FoKus Pro comment on fitment? Some reviews say it's more of a custom IEM fit, others say it's very large, so not sure if it would even fit my (smallish) ears. Any comparison of size, fit to popular IEMs might help? And any other sound reviews or comments on BT quality, transmission would be helpful. Some say it loses signal a lot they sent it back, so trying to see consensus or just isolated cases.
> Thanks for any suggestions /help!


These aren't too large and for me I've never had a better fitting iem. Wired or not. Just perfect. They re slightly smaller but similarly shaped to something like the Fiio FH9. I was going thru my iem collection thinking of an iem that takes this shape and there aren't many. It is a little bit larger than the Whizzer HE01 but I can assure you these wouldn't be even close to my largest that I have. I'd say actually that these are normal sized. I have over 50 iems and roughly 15 tws and these are prob in the 50th percentile for largeness. As far as connection, I haven't had an issue.... At all. Okay one time I had a skip for a second but that was momentary and I was in another room. Honestly I really enjoy this set and they do have a very full sound. I'm working on a review of these whenever I have time to actually sit long enough to compare them but at the moment these are awesome.


----------



## Luke Skywalker (Apr 12, 2022)

That’s great to hear. Mine have shipped and are on the way!  Canceled my Falcon ANC order


----------



## FSTOP

Ceeluh7 said:


> These aren't too large and for me I've never had a better fitting iem. Wired or not. Just perfect. They re slightly smaller but similarly shaped to something like the Fiio FH9. I was going thru my iem collection thinking of an iem that takes this shape and there aren't many. It is a little bit larger than the Whizzer HE01 but I can assure you these wouldn't be even close to my largest that I have. I'd say actually that these are normal sized. I have over 50 iems and roughly 15 tws and these are prob in the 50th percentile for largeness. As far as connection, I haven't had an issue.... At all. Okay one time I had a skip for a second but that was momentary and I was in another room. Honestly I really enjoy this set and they do have a very full sound. I'm working on a review of these whenever I have time to actually sit long enough to compare them but at the moment these are awesome.


Ceeluh7, Thanks so much! That's helpful. I have a few hybrid iems such as LZ A7, thieaudio L3 which fit me fine, but I know some are a good bit larger. 
The connection issues others have mentioned could be more to do with their specific devices too. Im pretty famiar with radio transmission and it can be dependent on locations, interferences, and each device (phone, dap, etc) as to vary greatly. Just wanted to have more information and sources as it is a fairly expensive tws, and Ive only tried a few tws models, so have limited experience. 
Looking forward to your review/impressions too!


----------



## BooleanBones

FSTOP said:


> Ceeluh7, Thanks so much! That's helpful. I have a few hybrid iems such as LZ A7, thieaudio L3 which fit me fine, but I know some are a good bit larger.
> The connection issues others have mentioned could be more to do with their specific devices too. Im pretty famiar with radio transmission and it can be dependent on locations, interferences, and each device (phone, dap, etc) as to vary greatly. Just wanted to have more information and sources as it is a fairly expensive tws, and Ive only tried a few tws models, so have limited experience.
> Looking forward to your review/impressions too!


As a test with mine (using iphone 12 Prod), I took them to a very busy supermarket for my bluetooth testing. No problems there and the surrounding area which was also full of various stores in strip plazas. I find them very comfortable as well, but cannot give you a good iem comparison as @Ceeluh7.


----------



## FSTOP

BooleanBones said:


> As a test with mine (using iphone 12 Prod), I took them to a very busy supermarket for my bluetooth testing. No problems there and the surrounding area which was also full of various stores in strip plazas. I find them very comfortable as well, but cannot give you a good iem comparison as @Ceeluh7.


That's a good test, Thanks for the input!


----------



## Juturna

Managed to cop a brand new pair of Galaxy Buds Pro for $50-ish, really happy because I was debating paying full retail for them. 

Imagine my disappointment when I realized that none of the eartips actually fit my ears, they were all too small! Got no seal whatsoever and the sound was trash, the ANC non-existent.   
But luckily enough the Comfobuds Pro eartips fit perfectly on the nozzles of the earbuds, and these sound pretty damn nice actually. Not sure if they lived up to what I expected yet, but they're so far very comfortable, calls seem to be absolutely fine and they sound pretty airy and nice. For the price I paid, 100% worth it.


----------



## Ceeluh7

BooleanBones said:


> As a test with mine (using iphone 12 Prod), I took them to a very busy supermarket for my bluetooth testing. No problems there and the surrounding area which was also full of various stores in strip plazas. I find them very comfortable as well, but cannot give you a good iem comparison as @Ceeluh7.


Right! They Def look like iems but I can't think of any that really have the same shape exactly. Lol... I was stumped. I freaking love em man


----------



## voicemaster

Using my Galaxy buds pro on the airplane right now and it is pretty good. The ANC is more than enough to block the cabin noise.


----------



## Ceeluh7

Juturna said:


> Managed to cop a brand new pair of Galaxy Buds Pro for $50-ish, really happy because I was debating paying full retail for them.
> 
> Imagine my disappointment when I realized that none of the eartips actually fit my ears, they were all too small! Got no seal whatsoever and the sound was trash, the ANC non-existent.
> But luckily enough the Comfobuds Pro eartips fit perfectly on the nozzles of the earbuds, and these sound pretty damn nice actually. Not sure if they lived up to what I expected yet, but they're so far very comfortable, calls seem to be absolutely fine and they sound pretty airy and nice. For the price I paid, 100% worth it.


I don't know if you have any of these but the Fiio "bass" tips work wonders for the GBP. Also sharing a very very very similar.... everything.... Is the KBEAR 07 tips. You can get those on Amazon and they fit this set really well. They work good because the tips are very stiff at the bore and so nothing gets restricted and they are a wider bore as well. It brings out all frequencies and opens them up too. I don't know why Fiio or kbear think of these as bass tips they should be excitement tips. The flange is firm but soft and so you get a very good seal as well.


----------



## jasonb

Day 2 with the AKG N400nc. Still impressed with the sound, and comfort/fit is going well too. Bluetooth stability seems good so far. I haven’t tested the ANC with anything but the air conditioner in my apartment yet, but it seems pretty decent. It blocks out the AC pretty well. Plenty of volume as I’ve only been using them in the 50% area.


----------



## stacey

A&K does A&K things. Preordered April 1st, told to not expect it until July. 

F u A&K. I’ll likely cancel.


----------



## Ceeluh7

jasonb said:


> Day 2 with the AKG N400nc. Still impressed with the sound, and comfort/fit is going well too. Bluetooth stability seems good so far. I haven’t tested the ANC with anything but the air conditioner in my apartment yet, but it seems pretty decent. It blocks out the AC pretty well. Plenty of volume as I’ve only been using them in the 50% area.


Honestly it's hard not to be impressed with this set. For SQ it certainly ranks up towards the top of the tws heap if the Harman tuned sound is for you. AAC doesn't seem to effect resolution or details and they fill out the whole spectrum really nicely. I can tell you the set I have has only gotten better with use. They are nice man, glad you are enjoying them


----------



## Juturna (Apr 13, 2022)

Ceeluh7 said:


> Honestly it's hard not to be impressed with this set. For SQ it certainly ranks up towards the top of the tws heap if the Harman tuned sound is for you. AAC doesn't seem to effect resolution or details and they fill out the whole spectrum really nicely. I can tell you the set I have has only gotten better with use. They are nice man, glad you are enjoying them


Would really want to hear the AKG N400 compared to the Galaxy Buds Pro now when I have those in my ears.

I really like these so far, and I think it's solidifies my thought that I do indeed enjoy the Harman Target-ish tunings on earbuds, because I usually EQ my earbuds quite a bit to get them to sound good to my ears, and with the Galaxy Buds Pro I've so far kept them on the stock EQ and even though I might want to adjust a little bit down the line, I still feel like I hear things mostly the way I want it to sound. Some nice sub-bass when required, mid-bass is not bloated but still present and sounds natural, vocals are present, treble is pretty crisp and present without being sibilant to my ears. Maybe they are SLIGHTLY shouty but I think that could be EQ'd pretty easily. 
Just clear without being too flat and boring, but maaaybe bordering on slightly thin and lacking a little warmth for some genres.

For $55 these were a steal however. Basically AKG N400 price but for the Galaxy Buds.
Would still want to hear both though.


----------



## Juturna

Ceeluh7 said:


> I don't know if you have any of these but the Fiio "bass" tips work wonders for the GBP. Also sharing a very very very similar.... everything.... Is the KBEAR 07 tips. You can get those on Amazon and they fit this set really well. They work good because the tips are very stiff at the bore and so nothing gets restricted and they are a wider bore as well. It brings out all frequencies and opens them up too. I don't know why Fiio or kbear think of these as bass tips they should be excitement tips. The flange is firm but soft and so you get a very good seal as well.


Yeah, I could get the KBEAR 07 from Amazon, might order them down the line if I feel like it's necessary. Feel like the Comfobuds Pro tips work pretty damn well. 
First I put the Technics AZ60 tips on them but it managed to just fall off the nozzle and get lodged in my ear for a bit before i could get it out so i'm hesitant to get eartips that has the round type of flange that you attach to the nozzle, the Comfobuds Pro ones has the exact same shape as the GBP's so it works pretty well.


----------



## Juturna (Apr 13, 2022)

Sorry, double post for some reason.


----------



## tiagopinto

jasonb said:


> So today I just received my $47 AKG N400nc and these are a complete steal at this price. I don’t know how or why they are selling them this low but they are definitely well worth $47 plus tax. Anyone that likes the Harmon target needs to try these. These are definitely an improved Samsung Galaxy Buds. I’m terms of just the SQ these are the best true wireless buds I’ve used. Better sounding than the XM3/4, the 1st 3 Galaxy buds, the lypertek Tevi, Melomania Touch, and AirPods Pro.



I wish. For that price... but not available in Europe.


----------



## Caipirina

Blueshound24 said:


> Do they sit outside the ear canal like an earbud, or in the canal like an IEM? In the pictures it looks like an IEM.


The Sabbath E12 are IEMs and drill into your earholes, while the X12 are half in-ear / earbud style ... there's also a Sabbath VooPlay that has big round outside disc and then earbud style insides. 
The X12 also sound pretty fantastic AND they don't have that runner's thud


----------



## PixelSquish

I have the xm4 and am happy with them eq'd a bit. Really like the battery life, the ANC, and they fit good.

I drink ordered the AZ60 and they get here today from Amazon. Thinking of returning them unopened but also to try them - for those who have used both, what are the biggest differences?


----------



## Juturna

PixelSquish said:


> I have the xm4 and am happy with them eq'd a bit. Really like the battery life, the ANC, and they fit good.
> 
> I drink ordered the AZ60 and they get here today from Amazon. Thinking of returning them unopened but also to try them - for those who have used both, what are the biggest differences?


I can't really say much except that for ME the AZ60 has better fit and sound by so much that it hurts me to even compare them, but the Sony's are said to be better now than when i actually owned them so my opinion might not be worth much. 
ANC might be better on the Sony's but the AZ60 makes up for it by providing better passive noise isolation. 

The case for the AZ60 doesn't have wireless charging though is another thing.


----------



## Luke Skywalker

Ha these Noble Fokus Pro’s are INSANE!  They blow away any wireless audio I’ve ever heard


----------



## BooleanBones

Luke Skywalker said:


> Ha these Noble Fokus Pro’s are INSANE!  They blow away any wireless audio I’ve ever heard


Welcome to FOG, glad you like them.


----------



## Luke Skywalker

Hard to believe this hobby (obsession?) began when I stumbled across an article several years ago talking about why I needed a headphone amp. Now several thousand dollars later my office is filled with gear. First purchase was a Dragonfly Red


----------



## Sam L

Luke Skywalker said:


> Ha these Noble Fokus Pro’s are INSANE!  They blow away any wireless audio I’ve ever heard


Damn. I wish I didn't read this..... My wallet hates you


----------



## BooleanBones

Luke Skywalker said:


> Hard to believe this hobby (obsession?) began when I stumbled across an article several years ago talking about why I needed a headphone amp. Now several thousand dollars later my office is filled with gear. First purchase was a Dragonfly Red


Thought about buying a cobalt, but just didn't feel like being dongled to death


----------



## Luke Skywalker

Sam L said:


> Damn. I wish I didn't read this..... My wallet hates you


Oh I know… now I’m wondering if I might need to buy some Noble IEMs. The FoKus is almost worth it just for looks alone. Better looking than my JH Lola’s by far


----------



## BooleanBones

Luke Skywalker said:


> Oh I know… now I’m wondering if I might need to buy some Noble IEMs. The FoKus is almost worth it just for looks alone. Better looking than my JH Lola’s by far


One thing to make sure you try is the hearing analysis tool in their app. It's pretty slick, might not be spot on, but enlightens you to what you may or may not hear.


----------



## jasonb

Ceeluh7 said:


> Honestly it's hard not to be impressed with this set. For SQ it certainly ranks up towards the top of the tws heap if the Harman tuned sound is for you. AAC doesn't seem to effect resolution or details and they fill out the whole spectrum really nicely. I can tell you the set I have has only gotten better with use. They are nice man, glad you are enjoying them



What has improved “with use”? I have about 4 hours or so on mine so far probably.

And yes, the Harman tuned sound is definitely for me. For low volume listening it to me seems like a bit of a “loudness contour”. I think it would be a bit much at high volumes but I listen pretty low usually. With these and an iPhone I’m usually right at or just under half way up.


----------



## PixelSquish (Apr 13, 2022)

Got the AZ60 today. I can definitely say I like the sound a bit better than the XM4.

It's nice that they are smaller but the XM4 fit me fine too.

I was on the phone and my sister said I sounded a bit muffled. I made sure that the noise reduction setting for calls was on normal, not strong. Am I missing a setting?


----------



## Ceeluh7

Luke Skywalker said:


> Ha these Noble Fokus Pro’s are INSANE!  They blow away any wireless audio I’ve ever heard


Yep


----------



## Luke Skywalker

BooleanBones said:


> Thought about buying a cobalt, but just didn't feel like being dongled to death


Ya the lack of a balanced output makes me reluctant to spend that much $ on the cobalt


----------



## BooleanBones

PixelSquish said:


> Got the AZ60 today. I can definitely say I like the sound a bit better than the XM4.
> 
> It's nice that they are smaller but the XM4 fit me fine too.
> 
> I was on the phone and my sister said I sounded a bit muffled. I made sure that the noise reduction setting for calls was on normal, not strong. Am I missing a setting?


I can check mine it a bit. Have you tried to do a recording on your phone to see if that is muffled as well?


----------



## Luke Skywalker

BooleanBones said:


> One thing to make sure you try is the hearing analysis tool in their app. It's pretty slick, might not be spot on, but enlightens you to what you may or may not hear.


Thanks! i actually saw that immediately and yes it’s very cool!  It would be nice if it quantified somehow whether or not you have hearing loss. At first I panicked a little thinking I was going deaf until I realized I had the volume turned all the way down


----------



## Ceeluh7

jasonb said:


> What has improved “with use”? I have about 4 hours or so on mine so far probably.
> 
> And yes, the Harman tuned sound is definitely for me. For low volume listening it to me seems like a bit of a “loudness contour”. I think it would be a bit much at high volumes but I listen pretty low usually. With these and an iPhone I’m usually right at or just under half way up.


Drivers settling, basically burn-in or listen-in. This set is so good man. So much clarity with a great stage for tws. Let's put it this way... I posted awhile back on this thread a comparison between the AKG and the Soundpeats Mini Pro and truthfully... There wasn't much difference at the time. I went back and forth a/bing them for awhile as the post was more about how impressive the Mini Pro were rather then a testament to the AKG. I wish I hadn't have posted that because about 20 hrs later of use with the AKG and they had opened up in the staging and there was better perceived resolution and clarity. It isn't some monumental change but in tws even small changes make a big difference. I honestly think the AKG are a fantastic iem for tws.


----------



## Ceeluh7

Luke Skywalker said:


> Ya the lack of a balanced output makes me reluctant to spend that much $ on the cobalt


Dude get yourself a $80 Fiio Ka3 or a $75 Shanling Ua2 and you'll be happy. The Cobalt are way overpriced imo and there is better for much less. Even the Hidizs S9 Pro or the Tempotec Sonata E44 are freaking fantastic


----------



## Darkestred

Luke Skywalker said:


> Ha these Noble Fokus Pro’s are INSANE!  They blow away any wireless audio I’ve ever heard


Heard these at canjam.  They were impressive.  I tried the Sultan and then the the Fokus.  If i werent paying attention youd think they were the Sultans.

Do they have a mic and if so, how is the mic?


----------



## Ceeluh7

Darkestred said:


> Heard these at canjam.  They were impressive.  I tried the Sultan and then the the Fokus.  If i werent paying attention youd think they were the Sultans.
> 
> Do they have a mic and if so, how is the mic?


Yes they have a mic... My son told me I sounded normal... Lol... I guess that means they are okay. Idk man.


----------



## Luke Skywalker

Darkestred said:


> Heard these at canjam.  They were impressive.  I tried the Sultan and then the the Fokus.  If i werent paying attention youd think they were the Sultans.
> 
> Do they have a mic and if so, how is the mic?


Just called my buddy to find out . He said I came across nice and clear although at one point he said it sounded a little like I was in a tunnel. iPhone 12 Pro Max


----------



## Luke Skywalker (Apr 13, 2022)

Ceeluh7 said:


> Dude get yourself a $80 Fiio Ka3 or a $75 Shanling Ua2 and you'll be happy. The Cobalt are way overpriced imo and there is better for much less. Even the Hidizs S9 Pro or the Tempotec Sonata E44 are freaking fantastic


Ah my friend… I’ve been struggling for days to find a device like this to buy.  Poring over endless reviews and articles. 

So what would be the absolute best device like this?  I don’t mind if it’s pricey.

…. that was rather vague… I’d love a DAC AMP that will give me superior sound with the Monarch Mkii and JH Lola wired. Ability to drive my Audeze LCD-2s is a huge plus. I’ll be usually plugging it into my iPhone 12 pro max.

I can go up to $1K for the Right device.


----------



## Darkestred

Luke Skywalker said:


> Just called my buddy to find out . He said I came across nice and clear although at one point he said it sounded a little like I was in a tunnel. iPhone 12 Pro Max


Much appreciated!


----------



## PixelSquish

Battery life on the AZ60 seems really good on LDAC adaptive bitrate with pretty high volume. No sound enhancements, no ANC for the most part.


----------



## parawizard

Picked up some Galaxy Buds 2 for $120+tax CAD. Very light and stay in. Seem to work pretty well. First set of TWS iems I've tried.


----------



## Toom

Anyone able to compare the Noble Fokus Pro with the Senn MTW 2?


----------



## Ceeluh7

Luke Skywalker said:


> Ah my friend… I’ve been struggling for days to find a device like this to buy.  Poring over endless reviews and articles.
> 
> So what would be the absolute best device like this?  I don’t mind if it’s pricey.
> 
> ...


Dongle Dacs from Andy EF "Dongle Madness" are listed first. No bluetooth but wonderful dongle dacs that carry power to drive:

-*CEntrance DACport HD*
-*Cayin RU6* 
-*Lotoo PAW S2* 
-*xDuoo Link2 BAL* 
-*Ovidius B1*
-*Apogee Groove*
-*TempoTec Sonata E44*
-*Questyle M12*
-*Hidizs S9 Pro*
-*E1DA 9038SG3*
*-FiiO KA3
-Shanling UA2

If you want a Bluetooth option as well that have power, sound great, and are more pocketable than I would stare you towards the:

-IFi Go Blu
-Qudelix 5k

Or and even beefier but much more powerful options you can get these:

-IFi xdsd Gryphon (over 1.2w of power w/ldac as well, this is a beast) 
-TRI Tk2 (basically a plug & play dac/amp, no bluetooth but extremely powerful) 
-IFi Hip Dac V1 or the newer V2 (dac/amp) 
-FIIO Q5s (another bluetooth or usbc beast) 

This is just a good start. Read reviews on all of these and see which fit your needs. These are some of the best that I have on the top of my head at 6am...lol. I hope this helps*


----------



## iFi audio

Ceeluh7 said:


> If you want a Bluetooth option as well that have power, sound great, and are more pocketable than I would stare you towards the:
> 
> -IFi Go Blu



Thanks for mentioning our GO blu and other products too. I have to say it's rather cool seeing several of them listed in different categories


----------



## Ceeluh7

iFi audio said:


> Thanks for mentioning our GO blu and other products too. I have to say it's rather cool seeing several of them listed in different categories


I use the Go Blu daily, as well as a few others... Very nice


----------



## tiagopinto

Luke Skywalker said:


> Hard to believe this hobby (obsession?) began when I stumbled across an article several years ago talking about why I needed a headphone amp. Now several thousand dollars later my office is filled with gear. First purchase was a Dragonfly Red



Well, I only started getting more “serious” headphone equipment about two years ago. TWS (MT) and overhead BT (Aonic 50). Then a year ago, I bought the Rai Solo and the THX Onyx. Now I’m looking for a better IEM. Shorter budget, shorter options. But still enjoying music to the fullest.



Luke Skywalker said:


> Ah my friend… I’ve been struggling for days to find a device like this to buy.  Poring over endless reviews and articles.
> 
> So what would be the absolute best device like this?  I don’t mind if it’s pricey.
> 
> ...



Have you read about the THX Onyx? ASR has a strong opinion on its quality. I love it. 

If I had a bigger budget I’d go for the Mojo2 for sure. Although it’s not a dongle, it oozes quality. But you should be covered here. 

On to saving more for my new IEMs. Cheers.


----------



## erockg

erockg said:


> Costco US has this package for $279 right now.


Well, Costco is having a sale and knocked another $50 off this M&D MW08 Sport package.  Just got price matched.  For $229, this is an even better deal now.


----------



## tonyfiore75

erockg said:


> Well, Costco is having a sale and knocked another $50 off this M&D MW08 Sport package.  Just got price matched.  For $229, this is an even better deal now.


It's a good thing I don't belong to Cosctco then, haha, or else I'd surely be emptying my pockets


----------



## Not so fat head

Yep, people connecting $2k IEM’s to $200 dongles is a little weird..  But who am I to judge..
I’m thinking about buying a second home to store my headphones..
😜


----------



## jasonb

Not so fat head said:


> Yep, people connecting $2k IEM’s to $200 dongles is a little weird..  But who am I to judge..
> I’m thinking about buying a second home to store my headphones..
> 😜



What price range of IEM’s deserve to be used with a $200 dongle? 

What should a $2k IEM be connected to? 

I don’t understand. Plenty of people seem to say the $10 apple dongle is all you need for most IEM’s.


----------



## allesa (Apr 14, 2022)

Anyone using B&O EQ? I can't seem to trigger aptx adaptive on all my phones.. only aptx. I've tried to connect it to oppo find X5 pro, Xiaomi 12 pro, S22 ultra, and more (I'm a tech reviewer so I've got plenty of phones here lol).

I have bowers and Wilkins PI7 and other aptx adaptive supporting wireless earbuds triggering aptx adaptive no problem with all my phones except S22 ultra which does not support aptx adaptive.

From what I've read, the EQ does support aptx adaptive. Qualcomm also has it listed on their website.


----------



## Ceeluh7

jasonb said:


> What price range of IEM’s deserve to be used with a $200 dongle?
> 
> What should a $2k IEM be connected to?
> 
> I don’t understand. Plenty of people seem to say the $10 apple dongle is all you need for most IEM’s.


There are great products $200 and under that easily pair well with any price of iem. Price has nothing to do with it but I understand the thought. $2000 iems do the exact same thing as $30 iems. Just find a pairing that suits you between dac/amp and iem etc. I will say that if the apple dongle is good for you than that is all that matters... It's about enjoying the same thing we are all in pursuit of... Music. Many guys even on this forum here put thousand dollar iems on a $100 utws5. Price has nothing to do with what sounds good. Truthfully also... Just because something costs more does not equate to better. It's an odd hobby though because with such over priced and over hyped iems costing over $1000-$8000 dollars and they barely sound better then a $300 iem. Not always the case but it happens.


----------



## Not so fat head

jasonb said:


> What price range of IEM’s deserve to be used with a $200 dongle?
> 
> What should a $2k IEM be connected to?
> 
> I don’t understand. Plenty of people seem to say the $10 apple dongle is all you need for most IEM’s.


Seems to me, a $2k IEM needs to be wired to a high performance source..
To each their own.  Can’t get around the fact that all Bluetooth uses band limited data..  Sony has some excellent documentation on their ATRAC encoding/decoding scheme, which most other compressions follow to a certain  degree…
The acoustics mapping is really amazing, based on throwing out sounds masked by louder sounds.
It’s claimed you won’t hear them anyway.


----------



## Not so fat head

The most I’ve spent on IEM’s is around $350.  They were ultimate ears ans Shures..
A $2k IEM must sound out of this world.
I’m talking being able to tell the difference between Violin makes.  Picking out a Stienway and a Bosendoefer; otherwise why pay the price?


----------



## jasonb (Apr 14, 2022)

Not so fat head said:


> Seems to me, a $2k IEM needs to be wired to a high performance source..
> To each their own.  Can’t get around the fact that all Bluetooth uses band limited data..  Sony has some excellent documentation on their ATRAC encoding/decoding scheme, which most other compressions follow to a certain  degree…
> The acoustics mapping is really amazing, based on throwing out sounds masked by louder sounds.
> It’s claimed you won’t hear them anyway.


I honestly don’t have a real comment on the matter and my most expensive headphone is $600. My $600 headphone is usually just plugged into the headphone jack on my M1 MacBook Air. I have a Qudelix 5K, and a Topping NX4DSD and I don’t notice anything missing when I just plug directly into the MacBooks headphone jack so lately I’ve just been doing that. I also use Bluetooth earbuds from time to time, either when I’m not home or sometimes even at home when it’s convenient. The Bluetooth earbuds are just using AAC, not LDAC since right now I’m using apple stuff.


----------



## jasonb

Not so fat head said:


> The most I’ve spent on IEM’s is around $350.  They were ultimate ears ans Shures..
> A $2k IEM must sound out of this world.
> I’m talking being able to tell the difference between Violin makes.  Picking out a Stienway and a Bosendoefer; otherwise why pay the price?


I doubt the difference would make it so that you could pick out the brand of the instruments. You still have to factor in the space it was recorded in, the microphones being used, and whatever is done at the mixing and mastering stages. There is always the law of diminishing returns with audio.


----------



## Not so fat head

A good test is the rock band America and the song is Ventura Highway…
Pay close attention to the cymbals and striking the wood block…
Very well recorded…
The wood block separates out the truly good headphones..
It should sound like, well, wood.. and have its own acoustic space…


----------



## PixelSquish

I tried Comply's, Spinfits, i think Auvio tips and one other set I can't remember what they are, with the AZ60's - the stock tips definitely seem to be the best. 

I am digging these. I see why a lot of people are quite happy with them. I do really like that you can set it to double tap to ambient sound, and it pauses the music when you do so. Then the music starts back up if you tap it to another mode like OFF or ANC on. The MTW2 did that pause, but the XM4 do not which always bugged me. If I'm turning on Ambient Sound mode that means I want to pause the music, interact with the world around me, then when I'm done, I want to start the music back up. That always seemed most intuitive to me.


----------



## PixelSquish (Apr 14, 2022)

Not so fat head said:


> The most I’ve spent on IEM’s is around $350.  They were ultimate ears ans Shures..
> A $2k IEM must sound out of this world.
> I’m talking being able to tell the difference between Violin makes.  Picking out a Stienway and a Bosendoefer; otherwise why pay the price?



When I went to Bloom Audio to pick up my Meze Rai Pentas (which I loved but sold due to low usage of all wired IEM's, they were $1299 new I think) and talked with the owner, who is a really nice dude and huge audiophile - he kinda said what a lot of people say, there is definitely a big point of diminishing returns - once you get to around the 1K/low 1K price points for IEM's - you are like 96% there towards top SQ. You can double the price point for that little extra, which many people can't hear anyway for any number of reasons.


----------



## LCMusicLover

Not so fat head said:


> ... the rock band America ...


Wait, what!?!

Yes, good test track, but ...

Rock band?  Saw them in concert twice back in the day -- pretty sure there was no Rock involved.  Folk Rock?  Isn't that like Jumbo Shrimp or Military Intelligence?  

Sorry, couldn't resist.


----------



## Not so fat head

Ha!!!
Yeah, not a rock band, my bad..


----------



## jant71

I wonder if these could work with the case with foams on them?


----------



## C_Lindbergh (Apr 14, 2022)

PixelSquish said:


> I tried Comply's, Spinfits, i think Auvio tips and one other set I can't remember what they are, with the AZ60's - the stock tips definitely seem to be the best.
> 
> I am digging these. I see why a lot of people are quite happy with them. I do really like that you can set it to double tap to ambient sound, and it pauses the music when you do so. Then the music starts back up if you tap it to another mode like OFF or ANC on. The MTW2 did that pause, but the XM4 do not which always bugged me. If I'm turning on Ambient Sound mode that means I want to pause the music, interact with the world around me, then when I'm done, I want to start the music back up. That always seemed most intuitive to me.


Yes! I've mentioned this so many this but it can't be stressed enough. The very nature of tws are the convenience factor, the auto pause/play music when going in/out of ambient is a perfect example. 

I aslo agree with you regarding the stock tips, it's pretty rare for me to enjoy the stock tips more then ant of my various third party tips. 

Im also still digging the AZ60 after months of use, Im very interesting if Panasonic launches a successor later this year


----------



## Canabuc

Have had no need to post in this forum recently and even reading there seem to have really been nothing that has come out with the package as complete at the AZ60.
I just love the sound. Great for working out. Great ANC and ambient and multi point!


----------



## LCMusicLover

Not so fat head said:


> Ha!!!
> Yeah, not a rock band, my bad..


Hey, I was JK.

A serious response would have been:

_Another good Ventura test track, ‘Ventura’ by Lucinda Williams off Live @ Filmore. See how well you can hear the crowd response to the line

’Put Neil Young on … turn up the sound’._

Cheers!


Spoiler: Old guy reminisces



My HS GF and I considered ‘Horse with No Name’ _our_ song, well plus ‘Summer Breeze’ and ‘Saturday in the Park’. Saw all those bands together, Hollywood Bowl or Greek Theater, plus Neil & Tull @ the Forum — boy am I old.


----------



## parawizard

I love my apple dongles. Very good. Don't hear noise floor and sound good and more than enough volume. I think most of my cans and iems are quite sensitive so I am usually running less than 10% volume. Sometimes only a couple points out of 100.

I've been enjoying these Galaxy Buds 2 quite a bit just with AAC. I've been spoiled with my ES100 and it's great codec support. These are far more convenient in many situations. Maybe at some point I'd like to get a pair of Advanced's M5-TWS ciem or maybe even just getting their molds done for these Buds 2 and maybe my MH755.

I've been demoing CFA Equinox and there are definitely things to like about their company, products, service and the Equinox but the tuning is just didn't fit the range of music I listen to. I've been putting lots of time on these Buds 2.

Thinking improving my comfort is likely the largest improvement I can make. Might try the Solstice out too as I'd really like to have a pair of customs and the shallow audiophile fit option seems like a great idea. I recently got silicone sleep plugs made and I wish I had gotten them years ago. I feel like it's likely going to feel the same way with well fitted ciem.

It definitely would be nice to be able to demo everything on the market to get a good idea of the range of possible signatures and driver technologies. Bit jealous of big city people on here with good audio stores nearby


----------



## chinmie

Anyone still have Samsung Galaxy buds Live? I've just updated my unit's firmware, now it has the 360audio feature like the buds pro/ airpods pro


----------



## Devodonaldson

chinmie said:


> Anyone still have Samsung Galaxy buds Live? I've just updated my unit's firmware, now it has the 360audio feature like the buds pro/ airpods pro


If only the 360 audio feature actually sounded good. Horrible echo with buds pro when watching videos. No update has made it any better as of yet.


----------



## PixelSquish

I am not seeing a way to tell the percentage the case of the AZ60 is charged to? Am I missing something?


----------



## tonyfiore75

PixelSquish said:


> I tried Comply's, Spinfits, i think Auvio tips and one other set I can't remember what they are, with the AZ60's - the stock tips definitely seem to be the best.
> 
> I am digging these. I see why a lot of people are quite happy with them. I do really like that you can set it to double tap to ambient sound, and it pauses the music when you do so. Then the music starts back up if you tap it to another mode like OFF or ANC on. The MTW2 did that pause, but the XM4 do not which always bugged me. If I'm turning on Ambient Sound mode that means I want to pause the music, interact with the world around me, then when I'm done, I want to start the music back up. That always seemed most intuitive to me.


I agree that the stock tips are very good with the AZ60s. But I've since gotten these and feel that they're even a better fit / seal for me:

https://smile.amazon.com/dp/B09B7BKM6X?psc=1&ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_product_details

I can definitely recommend them. They're not exactly cheap, though. But now they're my goto sleeves for the AZ60s.


----------



## erockg

Canabuc said:


> Have had no need to post in this forum recently and even reading there seem to have really been nothing that has come out with the package as complete at the AZ60.
> I just love the sound. Great for working out. Great ANC and ambient and multi point!


Yup, all quiet on the new TWS front.  Sennies, B&O and one other due 4th quarter this year that I was sworn to secrecy   I'm seemingly at an end game here with my setups until those come out.


----------



## darveniza

Interesting, B&O EX released in Japan

https://av-watch-impress-co-jp.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/av.watch.impress.co.jp/docs/news/1403/036/amp.index.html?amp_gsa=1&amp_js_v=a9&usqp=mq331AQIKAGwASCAAgM=#amp_tf=From %1$s&aoh=16500270273577&csi=0&referrer=https://www.google.com&ampshare=https://av.watch.impress.co.jp/docs/news/1403036.html


----------



## raymanh

Not so fat head said:


> Yep, people connecting $2k IEM’s to $200 dongles is a little weird..  But who am I to judge..
> I’m thinking about buying a second home to store my headphones..
> 😜



Some components are just cheap and work. Do you also need a $200 cable and $200 ear tips?

FWIW I read quite a detailed analysis of the Apple dongle and the conclusion was that it was very good, and outperformed a more expensive dongle.


----------



## Not so fat head

Apple makes a battery powered Bluetooth dongle, that can connect to IEM’s?
I didn’t know..


----------



## parawizard

Not so fat head said:


> Apple makes a battery powered Bluetooth dongle, that can connect to IEM’s?
> I didn’t know..



Nope but would be interesting if they were able to with similar specs as their $10 dongles. It would.be interesting to see someone quantify TWS modular tech objectively. Has anyone seen someone test any of the modular TWS solutions?

UTWS5 looks pretty interesting. Think if I get some customs I'd probably pick those up to power em


----------



## Not so fat head

Spent yesterday listening to my new Sennheiser CX $80 TWS headphones. I’m amazed how good these sound, while using their EQ, within the Sennheiser app.
Picked them up at Best Buy..
I’m running them on an Apple 6SE.
For me, EQ’ing is needed to make them sing..  👍


----------



## Not so fat head

Still, my Bose soundsports free (old model) has by far the best sound stage and imaging..
I probably have 30 of these TWS headphones, from $300 (Sennheiser) to $16 (cheapies but fun).  I’m always looking for that crazy bargain, but end up spending enough, that I should have just bought the B and W’s P7’s 😃


----------



## jant71

https://www.qucox.com/dunu-dtw-1000h-review/


----------



## VICosPhi

Guys,

What is the difference between battery % on your AZ60? I am seeing my right bud is always 20% lower (or drains faster than left bud) and wondering if I should file for warranty repair or if this is known behavior.


----------



## BooleanBones

VICosPhi said:


> Guys,
> 
> What is the difference between battery % on your AZ60? I am seeing my right bud is always 20% lower (or drains faster than left bud) and wondering if I should file for warranty repair or if this is known behavior.


I have not noticed that (I have been using other TWS more as of late). Think I looked at this before after someone mentioned it, but mine seem to discharge fairly evenly. I will leave them out of the case this afternoon and see.


----------



## BooleanBones

PixelSquish said:


> I am not seeing a way to tell the percentage the case of the AZ60 is charged to? Am I missing something?


I don't see this either.


----------



## starfly

Not so fat head said:


> Seems to me, a $2k IEM needs to be wired to a high performance source..
> To each their own.  Can’t get around the fact that all Bluetooth uses band limited data..  Sony has some excellent documentation on their ATRAC encoding/decoding scheme, which most other compressions follow to a certain  degree…
> The acoustics mapping is really amazing, based on throwing out sounds masked by louder sounds.
> It’s claimed you won’t hear them anyway.


There are high performance sources that cost $100.  And alternatively, there are $200 IEMs that'll sound better than $2K IEMs.  Don't get blinded by the price tag, it has nothing to do with actual measurable performance, or subjective performance for that matter.


----------



## dweaver (Apr 15, 2022)

My AZ60 is a bit lower on the right bud but only by a couple of percent generally.


----------



## jant71 (Apr 15, 2022)

Edifier fairly quickly updating the Neobuds to the "S" model that is Snapdragon Sound 24/96K compatible with WCC5151 and some tweaks including ditching the gray/silver for black and gold. Said to be the same price as the Pro.


----------



## jant71

darveniza said:


> Interesting, B&O EX released in Japan
> 
> https://av-watch-impress-co-jp.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/av.watch.impress.co.jp/docs/news/1403/036/amp.index.html?amp_gsa=1&amp_js_v=a9&usqp=mq331AQIKAGwASCAAgM=#amp_tf=From %1$s&aoh=16500270273577&csi=0&referrer=https://www.google.com&ampshare=https://av.watch.impress.co.jp/docs/news/1403036.html


Link gives me a 404 error. I read this..." Starting with Anthracite Oxygen, which will appear on April 22, Gold Tone will be released after May 12, and Black Anthracite will be released after June 2."


----------



## JoshG1217

So picked up mw08 amd devialet gemeni. I don't gt the mw08 at all. That angled type had never worked for a decent seal for me. Different ears I guess, but going back as they sound terrible. Gemeni are actually pretty decent, but they are finicky. They sound as good as the Sony I think, but less bass and the tone feels a little dry


----------



## BooleanBones

VICosPhi said:


> Guys,
> 
> What is the difference between battery % on your AZ60? I am seeing my right bud is always 20% lower (or drains faster than left bud) and wondering if I should file for warranty repair or if this is known behavior.


Ran mine down to low 70s percent and they have not differed by more than 2%, mostly in sync while I was checking them.


----------



## Not so fat head

starfly said:


> There are high performance sources that cost $100.  And alternatively, there are $200 IEMs that'll sound better than $2K IEMs.  Don't get blinded by the price tag, it has nothing to do with actual measurable performance, or subjective performance for that matter.


It has nothing to do with price, although any company trying to sell a $2k IEM, that is outperformed by a $200 dollar one, won’t stay in business long..
I’ll never know, as a $2k IEM isn’t on my radar screen…
The issue is Bluetooth technology.  It must by design, send compressed data to any receiver per the protocol.  LDAC is still compressed, and usually thunks down the the lower bit rate, due to transmission issues and stability..
Is what it is, wires will outperform Bluetooth, by design..


----------



## Luke Skywalker

Ceeluh7 said:


> Dongle Dacs from Andy EF "Dongle Madness" are listed first. No bluetooth but wonderful dongle dacs that carry power to drive:
> 
> -*CEntrance DACport HD*
> -*Cayin RU6*
> ...


Hey thanks for taking the time to put all that information together for me!  There are a dazzling array of choices for dongles huh?  I’m having a difficult time deciding. 

On the other hand, I think I’m going to buy the Gryphon. I have the xDSD and this thing looks like quite a step up. Also (this will sound silly) - I can’t stand that female USB-A socket on the xDSD. Having a normal USB-C port sounds much nicer. 

The other reason I’m thinking of the Gryphon is that I think I’ve been enjoying my Fokus and IEMs too much. I don’t tend to listen to loud music but my listening sessions must be too long. Just today I noticed a very faint high pitched sound. 

From what I’ve been reading, using my open backed LCD-2s should be safer for longer sessions (and taking silence breaks…) and for full sized headphones I think the Gryphon sounds like it’ll be powerful enough.   

I’ll probably also get some little speakers for my office. But that’s a separate project  

Thanks again!


----------



## Luke Skywalker

allesa said:


> Anyone using B&O EQ? I can't seem to trigger aptx adaptive on all my phones.. only aptx. I've tried to connect it to oppo find X5 pro, Xiaomi 12 pro, S22 ultra, and more (I'm a tech reviewer so I've got plenty of phones here lol).
> 
> I have bowers and Wilkins PI7 and other aptx adaptive supporting wireless earbuds triggering aptx adaptive no problem with all my phones except S22 ultra which does not support aptx adaptive.
> 
> From what I've read, the EQ does support aptx adaptive. Qualcomm also has it listed on their website.


My EQs sound wonderful using AAC but unfortunately I’ve only tried them with apple devices.


----------



## Luke Skywalker

parawizard said:


> Nope but would be interesting if they were able to with similar specs as their $10 dongles. It would.be interesting to see someone quantify TWS modular tech objectively. Has anyone seen someone test any of the modular TWS solutions?
> 
> UTWS5 looks pretty interesting. Think if I get some customs I'd probably pick those up to power em


I ordered the 5’s and a pair of Monarch Mkii IEMs. Unfortunately I have no clue when either will arrive haha


----------



## msooffutt

Just an update on my noble fokus pros.  Not sure anyone remembers, but I had to send mine back, because of connection issues.  I’m happy to say that the new ones they sent are working perfectly, and a thank you to Noble’s customer service who were great. I highly recommend these, they really do sound great.  Anyone who is worried about them not having anc, don’t be, the passive noise canceling on these are very good.  Only thing I wish they had was transparency, but not the end of the world, as they sound so good.


----------



## BooleanBones

msooffutt said:


> Just an update on my noble fokus pros.  Not sure anyone remembers, but I had to send mine back, because of connection issues.  I’m happy to say that the new ones they sent are working perfectly, and a thank you to Noble’s customer service who were great. I highly recommend these, they really do sound great.  Anyone who is worried about them not having anc, don’t be, the passive noise canceling on these are very good.  Only thing I wish they had was transparency, but not the end of the world, as they sound so good.


Great to hear you got them back. The Noble gang really are helpful, down to earth folks. Totally agree with you on ambient. I would love to have it for pausing music and having a conversation primarily, without having to pop the seal.


----------



## Ceeluh7

jant71 said:


> https://www.qucox.com/dunu-dtw-1000h-review/


I just saw this yesterday... Dunu only makes good stuff man. Cool


----------



## Ceeluh7

Luke Skywalker said:


> Hey thanks for taking the time to put all that information together for me!  There are a dazzling array of choices for dongles huh?  I’m having a difficult time deciding.
> 
> On the other hand, I think I’m going to buy the Gryphon. I have the xDSD and this thing looks like quite a step up. Also (this will sound silly) - I can’t stand that female USB-A socket on the xDSD. Having a normal USB-C port sounds much nicer.
> 
> ...


Dude... The Gryphon is sooooo nice. I am likely picking it up withing the week as well... I think. Good for you. It has an astronomical amount of output power for a portable device... It basically has everything


----------



## nekonhime

allesa said:


> Anyone using B&O EQ? I can't seem to trigger aptx adaptive on all my phones.. only aptx. I've tried to connect it to oppo find X5 pro, Xiaomi 12 pro, S22 ultra, and more (I'm a tech reviewer so I've got plenty of phones here lol).
> 
> I have bowers and Wilkins PI7 and other aptx adaptive supporting wireless earbuds triggering aptx adaptive no problem with all my phones except S22 ultra which does not support aptx adaptive.
> 
> From what I've read, the EQ does support aptx adaptive. Qualcomm also has it listed on their website.


Have you try to turn on developer options?


----------



## Canabuc

BooleanBones said:


> I don't see this either.


Think you only get an LED color letting you know if near full middle or low.


----------



## JoshG1217

Ceeluh7 said:


> Dude... The Gryphon is sooooo nice. I am likely picking it up withing the week as well... I think. Good for you. It has an astronomical amount of output power for a portable device... It basically has everything


FYI, I owned thr gryphon and returned it. If the goal is to be portable and take it ot the gym or subway or whatever, it's great. If the goal is at home, do the idsd micro signature. It sounds much better.


----------



## starfly (Apr 16, 2022)

Not so fat head said:


> It has nothing to do with price, although any company trying to sell a $2k IEM, that is outperformed by a $200 dollar one, won’t stay in business long..
> I’ll never know, as a $2k IEM isn’t on my radar screen…
> The issue is Bluetooth technology.  It must by design, send compressed data to any receiver per the protocol.  LDAC is still compressed, and usually thunks down the the lower bit rate, due to transmission issues and stability..
> Is what it is, wires will outperform Bluetooth, by design..


Well yes, I agree that Bluetooth being a lossy codec won't be as good as a wired headphone/IEM.

But - I once did a double blind test for myself between MP3 320kbps and FLAC, and I absolutely could not pick out what was what. And for my ears at least, that confirmed that I shouldn't be too worried about high bitrate lossy vs lossless. Which is why I happily use Spotify Premium as my only streaming source. And I doubt I'd hear a difference between LDAC or Aptx and the exact same headphone in wired.

But I really only use wireless in the gym or on the airplane as it's convenient and provides ANC, I otherwise typically use wired (as most of my headphones are wired and I'm not about to throw them all out )

Though really these days my preference is to not use headphones at all, but to listen on my speakers. Sounds the best of all


----------



## ldo77

Just received the Jiil T1xs and I am pleasantly surprised.
They are small and the fit is good, Even for running.
It's one of tbe most balanced tws I have.
Not the fuller mids and lows, but very pleasant to listen.


----------



## Luke Skywalker

Ceeluh7 said:


> Dude... The Gryphon is sooooo nice. I am likely picking it up withing the week as well... I think. Good for you. It has an astronomical amount of output power for a portable device... It basically has everything


Ha you’ve convinced me. I’m going to order it this week. Going to buy some 9% inflation bonds so I need to wait for my next credit card billing cycle


----------



## allesa

nekonhime said:


> Have you try to turn on developer options?


Yes. It reverts back to standard APTX once I leave the dev settings. Bluetooth settings also indicates no change


----------



## Luke Skywalker

JoshG1217 said:


> FYI, I owned thr gryphon and returned it. If the goal is to be portable and take it ot the gym or subway or whatever, it's great. If the goal is at home, do the idsd micro signature. It sounds much better.


Nice!  So is it just more powerful?  I wonder if i’d notice a difference between it and the Gryphon with JH Lola and Monarch Mkii IEMs or my Audeze LCD-2 cans


----------



## Luke Skywalker

starfly said:


> Well yes, I agree that Bluetooth being a lossy codec won't be as good as a wired headphone/IEM.
> 
> But - I once did a double blind test for myself between MP3 320kbps and FLAC, and I absolutely could not pick out what was what. And for my ears at least, that confirmed that I shouldn't be too worried about high bitrate lossy vs lossless. Which is why I happily use Spotify Premium as my only streaming source. And I doubt I'd hear a difference between LDAC or Aptx and the exact same headphone in wired.
> 
> ...


What kind of speaker setup do you have?  I’m looking at doing that in my office to cut down on IEM time


----------



## Not so fat head

starfly said:


> Well yes, I agree that Bluetooth being a lossy codec won't be as good as a wired headphone/IEM.
> 
> But - I once did a double blind test for myself between MP3 320kbps and FLAC, and I absolutely could not pick out what was what. And for my ears at least, that confirmed that I shouldn't be too worried about high bitrate lossy vs lossless. Which is why I happily use Spotify Premium as my only streaming source. And I doubt I'd hear a difference between LDAC or Aptx and the exact same headphone in wired.
> 
> ...


Absolutely, lossy compression has come a long way.  As bandwidth improves it’ll even get better, my airpod max headphones can sound amazingly good.  Uses AAC only, but lives in an Apple ecosystem optimized for the codec.


----------



## TK33 (Apr 16, 2022)

Luke Skywalker said:


> What kind of speaker setup do you have?  I’m looking at doing that in my office to cut down on IEM time


I've been using speakers more when working from home for the same reason.  Mostly stream via my Node 2i --> RME ADI-2 (external DAC /.headphone amp) --> NAD D3045 --,> KFE LS50 Metas + REL T-Zero sub (which I used to use with Q100s).  Makes for a pretty compact nearfield desktop setup  Have been really happy with the LS50 Metas.

On a separate note, I am really liking the Linkbuds for calls when indoors and for listening to music while at the office (open design isn't great for calls in noisy places or outdoors so I still use Galaxy Buds Live for that).  They are super comfortable and I literally forget that I am wearing them (have had to make sure they were still in my ears a few times because I thought they may have fallen out).  Only problem is the battery life is not great and I've had low battery warnings after 3-4 hours or so. Probably good to give the ears a break anyway.


----------



## Luke Skywalker

TK33 said:


> I've been using speakers more when working from home for the same reason.  Mostly stream via my Node 2i --> RME ADI-2 (external DAC /.headphone amp) --> NAD D3045 --,> KFE LS50 Metas + REL T-Zero sub (which I used to use with Q100s).  Makes for a pretty compact nearfield desktop setup  Have been really happy with the LS50 Metas.
> 
> On a separate note, I am really liking the Linkbuds for calls when indoors and for listening to music while at the office (open design isn't great for calls in noisy places or outdoors so I still use Galaxy Buds Live for that).  They are super comfortable and I literally forget that I am wearing them (have had to make sure they were still in my ears a few times because I thought they may have fallen out).  Only problem is the battery life is not great and I've had low battery warnings after 3-4 hours or so. Probably good to give the ears a break anyway.


Wow those speakers look amazing.  I imagine a setup would run between $5 and $10K huh?  Might have to do that later in the year


----------



## darveniza

jant71 said:


> Link gives me a 404 error. I read this..." Starting with Anthracite Oxygen, which will appear on April 22, Gold Tone will be released after May 12, and Black Anthracite will be released after June 2."


Maybe try https://www.bang-olufsen.com/en/kr/earphones/beoplay-ex


----------



## JoshG1217

Luke Skywalker said:


> Nice!  So is it just more powerful?  I wonder if i’d notice a difference between it and the Gryphon with JH Lola and Monarch Mkii IEMs or my Audeze LCD-2 cans


The idsd micro signature is more powerful, but also more musical. The gryphon sounds dry and unengaging. The signature is just more of a toe tapper. More musical, more power. I run hifiman xs and dan clark aeon from it and it sounds great. I also bought a TCL phone and just used double sides tape to make my own dap. With the phone it costs $1000 total and sounds significantly better than the ibasso dx300, which is $1300. I even take it when traveling, though I just sold my z1r that was my travel set.


----------



## Luke Skywalker

JoshG1217 said:


> The idsd micro signature is more powerful, but also more musical. The gryphon sounds dry and unengaging. The signature is just more of a toe tapper. More musical, more power. I run hifiman xs and dan clark aeon from it and it sounds great. I also bought a TCL phone and just used double sides tape to make my own dap. With the phone it costs $1000 total and sounds significantly better than the ibasso dx300, which is $1300. I even take it when traveling, though I just sold my z1r that was my travel set.


Wow dude you’re like MacGyver


----------



## JoshG1217

Luke Skywalker said:


> Wow dude you’re like MacGyver


Haha. It's pretty simple-- cheap phone: $250; special otg cable: $16; the best possible sound on the go: priceless.


----------



## TK33

Luke Skywalker said:


> Wow those speakers look amazing.  I imagine a setup would run between $5 and $10K huh?  Might have to do that later in the year


Probably more like 5-6? Bought most of it slowly over the last two years so the expense was spread out.. Have been very happy with the LS50 Metas.

For KEF, definitely recommend going to a local dealer as they will usually give you a discount.  No need to pay full retail.


----------



## BooleanBones

darveniza said:


> Maybe try https://www.bang-olufsen.com/en/kr/earphones/beoplay-ex


The typical 400$ price tag it appears


----------



## starfly

Luke Skywalker said:


> What kind of speaker setup do you have?  I’m looking at doing that in my office to cut down on IEM time


For in my home office, I use JBL LSR305 monitor speakers through a Motu M4 audio interface (both are a lot of bang for the buck and perform and measure very well), and in the living room a self built raspberry pi streamer (running Volumio) with an Orchard Audio DAC + Purifi Audio amplifier into Revel F206 speakers (very excellent speakers, measure pretty flat, wide dispersion, very low distortion). 

Headphones simply can't recreate the sound of speakers in a room. It's the best, other than of course live music with real instruments.


----------



## clerkpalmer

BooleanBones said:


> The typical 400$ price tag it appears


Frankly at that price, I feel better about them. I seriously doubt they would release a subpar product at that price.


----------



## parawizard

I was missing having speakers and picked up some IK Multimedia MTMs for my work desk. Love em. Great bass extension for the size and don't need to get a sub. Don't think I could have even snuck 6 inch monitors on here. Don't get many hours on them though as I live in a shared household and I am putting an epic amount of hours on my IEMs and some Meze 99s. I suppose if I have my own place one day a treated space with some nice speakers might be a thing.

Pretty impressed in these Buds 2 still after putting in tons of hours since I got them. Can't wait to try them at the gym and not have to worry about crushing my source devices or cables.


----------



## clerkpalmer

starfly said:


> For in my home office, I use JBL LSR305 monitor speakers through a Motu M4 audio interface (both are a lot of bang for the buck and perform and measure very well), and in the living room a self built raspberry pi streamer (running Volumio) with an Orchard Audio DAC + Purifi Audio amplifier into Revel F206 speakers (very excellent speakers, measure pretty flat, wide dispersion, very low distortion).
> 
> Headphones simply can't recreate the sound of speakers in a room. It's the best, other than of course live music with real instruments.


It’s probably sacrilege, but 2 Sonos 1s and Sonos subwoofer sounds pretty damn good to me for my office setup. About 1200.


----------



## erockg

clerkpalmer said:


> It’s probably sacrilege, but 2 Sonos 1s and Sonos subwoofer sounds pretty damn good to me for my office setup. About 1200.


Dude, I love my Sonos surround setup.  Perfect for my needs.  Nothing sacrilegious here!


----------



## Ceeluh7

JoshG1217 said:


> FYI, I owned thr gryphon and returned it. If the goal is to be portable and take it ot the gym or subway or whatever, it's great. If the goal is at home, do the idsd micro signature. It sounds much better.


Gotcha... Ya it has to work for you and be practical. Thanks man


----------



## alleroy

Has anybody also some over hear wireless headphones with ANC (in the range of price as for example of Sony WH-1000XM4, Sennheiser HD450BT or Momentum 3 Wireless) and would compare their ANC efficiency with respect to that of corresponding in ear ones?


----------



## Caipirina

Not so fat head said:


> Still, my Bose soundsports free (old model) has by far the best sound stage and imaging..
> I probably have 30 of these TWS headphones, from $300 (Sennheiser) to $16 (cheapies but fun).  I’m always looking for that crazy bargain, but end up spending enough, that I should have just bought the B and W’s P7’s 😃


I liked those so much back in the day that I bought a second set JUST after the first one died a few days after warranty period was over .. that pair now has charging issues as well .. but when I get them to charge properly, boy they still sound and fit super nice .. I sometimes wonder about getting another set .. orange maybe  .. saw one recently on amazon (used / refurb) for 70$, i added to list / basket .. few days later that seller raises it to 280$ ... FML


----------



## Luke Skywalker

TK33 said:


> Probably more like 5-6? Bought most of it slowly over the last two years so the expense was spread out.. Have been very happy with the LS50 Metas.
> 
> For KEF, definitely recommend going to a local dealer as they will usually give you a discount.  No need to pay full retail.


They look absolutely incredible. Great use of money   I should be able to make that happen this year although it might be a little complex to figure out. I was also looking at the 
NAIM UNITI ATOM​


----------



## Luke Skywalker

alleroy said:


> Has anybody also some over hear wireless headphones with ANC (in the range of price as for example of Sony WH-1000XM4, Sennheiser HD450BT or Momentum 3 Wireless) and would compare their ANC efficiency with respect to that of corresponding in ear ones?


I think my Bose buds have the best ANC of the ones I own but the sound isn’t quite up there with the B&O EQ and FoKus (non NC)


----------



## allesa (Apr 17, 2022)

Luke Skywalker said:


> I think my Bose buds have the best ANC of the ones I own but the sound isn’t quite up there with the B&O EQ and FoKus (non NC)



Bro do you own the EQ? Do you have the same problem with me of it not connected using aptx adaptive but aptx instead? I like the sound quality of EQ however it does not really compete well with my Bowers and Wilkins Pi7. I suspect it has something to do with the aptx it chooses.


----------



## Luke Skywalker

allesa said:


> Bro do you own the EQ? Do you have the same problem with me of it not connected using aptx adaptive but aptx instead? I like the sound quality of EQ however it does not really compete well with my Bowers and Wilkins Pi7. I suspect it has something to do with the aptx it chooses.


I do indeed, my friend!  However, I’ve only used them with my iPhone (AAC).  I’ll see if I can pair them with my Nvidia shield (which runs Android) and check in Developer Options to see what codec it uses. My iFi xDSD defaulted to AptxHD and my HiBy buds connected by LDAC.


----------



## erockg

Well, I held out as long as I could to update my MW08 Sport and decided maybe Master & Dynamic pushed out a newer firmware update to address the mic issues that I had with previous MW08s. Stupidly updated them last night to the 4.4.5 firmware update and again, for the umpteenth time, totally screwed up the microphones. Completely useless on phone calls now.  Awful.


----------



## Luke Skywalker (Apr 17, 2022)

erockg said:


> Dude, I love my Sonos surround setup.  Perfect for my needs.  Nothing sacrilegious here!


That’s awesome. We’re actually putting in a whole house Sonos system so that’d be perfect.


----------



## parawizard

Well after even more listening and testing. I was surprised my Fiio M5 and Windows 10 computers were both just transmitting SBC. It must be a decently high bitrate cause it sounds decent. I've definitely been spoiled by my ES100s codec support. Looks like Windows 10 AAC support got bumped from Windows 10 21H2 to Windows 11. So when I upgrade to 11 I will have AAC on there. No luck with the Fiio M5 though as it only supports AAC in the receiver mode. At least it seems to sound fairly good.


----------



## botmann

Ceeluh7 said:


> Soundpeats H1, Moondrop Sparks, Sabbat E16





Juturna said:


> Have the H1, not a huge fan but they're decent.
> The Moondrop Sparks has a disgustingly long delivery time from Amazon (they say between June 11-June 16 as estimated date of delivery) and the Sabbat E16 aren't available here. /:


I have H1s too.   I have Soundpeats True engine 3 too.   I have a few of Soundpeats cheapest TWS too.   I like the H1s the best.   They're not nearly a bassy compared to the their models I have.   The dual driver setup keeps the sound more clear at louder volumes.   My issue with them is that the tips get too warm or too much ear wax builds in the ear or tips, they tend to fall out.   I had the same issue with the True Engines.   Personally, I don't think they're a good buy at $80US.   They're more a $50-$60 purchase to me.   Heck, I would write Soundpeats and see if they're willing to cut you bigger discount.   The other issue is that that ear filter isn't really replaceable, but it is.   I have Etyomic Research IEM and they have filters to switch out when they got gunked with the dirt and wax.   The Soundpeats you need to clean periodically.   They are ear filters you can buy third party that work; I learned this from Soundpeats after a few complaints.   If you like fancy apps or something, Soundpeats is not it.   The H1s do have an app, but it's pretty limited in function; I mainly use for firmware updates.   It gives battery percentage.   I think there is some kind of EQ or one of those custom ear staging based on your actual hearing.   The H1s power case does have wireless and USB C charging.    Along the same lines, they do have pretty good power life.   I use mine all the time, and I end up charging my case about once a month.   I generally don't listen at max volume; round 25-50%

On a side note, I will say Soundpeats customer service is pretty good.   I had the ear filters come off from not cleaning them regularly.   I wrote Soundpeats to complain.   One time they offered to replaced the unit when it came back in stock.   I eventually negotiated to get a big discount on a new purchase for a new model; around 40%-50%, which they did through a refund.


----------



## jmwant

Moondrop releases Nekocake Special design, with updated bt version.


----------



## Not so fat head

erockg said:


> Well, I held out as long as I could to update my MW08 Sport and decided maybe Master & Dynamic pushed out a newer firmware update to address the mic issues that I had with previous MW08s. Stupidly updated them last night to the 4.4.5 firmware update and again, for the umpteenth time, totally screwed up the microphones. Completely useless on phone calls now.  Awful.


Thank you for letting us know!


----------



## Asabides

BooleanBones said:


> I have not noticed that (I have been using other TWS more as of late). Think I looked at this before after someone mentioned it, but mine seem to discharge fairly evenly. I will leave them out of the case this afternoon and see.


My AZ60 also discharge rather evenly. FYI


----------



## JoshG1217

So, because I am obsessed, I purchased the following to compare to my sony xm4 tws:

1. Akg n400
2. Devialet Gemeni
3. M andD MW08
4. JVC 1000t something
5. Noble Audio Fokus Pro

For the sony's, I use the Azla Sedna tips and they work and fit great and have outstanding sound for a TWS. Lots of people make recs, and I never like them better than the Sony's. THis includes Sennheiser, B and O, B and W, and all the overhyped bull you can imagine. It all sucks. Enter here:

AKG: great bang for your buck. FOr $74, hard to pass on these. Use different tips though, which is true for basically all of them. These are less refined, but work well, and sound great on a budget, but not as good as the Sony Xm4's.

Gemeni: I actually like these. You may like them more or less than the Sonys, but sound is about the same quality with differences in tone. I like the fit, but they are less reliable, and the sound without ANC is just so-so. If I was going to keep a back up pair, they would be these. Well... sorta.

MW08: M and W falls into the above. Overhyped, and not good at all. I don't what alien ears these fit into, but they don't fit mine, and the disc part keeps them from going into my ears comfortably. Back to amazon

JVC: another one I don't get. Don't fit great, don't sound great. Just mediocre all the way through

Fokus Pro: Boom! This is how you do it. Keeping these, and returning the other 4. Fit is great. They sound amazing, and even the tips out of the box sound good with them. The app work, they look beautiful. This is a home run. Some people have drop issues, but none for me so far. This is the very clear winner. It's not even close to the others. It's not a huge improvement over the Sonys, and I have not used them at the gym yet, but they have more separation and a tad bit better resolution and they just work and fit and sound great. Great job #nobleaudio!


----------



## Luke Skywalker

JoshG1217 said:


> So, because I am obsessed, I purchased the following to compare to my sony xm4 tws:
> 
> 1. Akg n400
> 2. Devialet Gemeni
> ...


Totally agree on the FoKus!  I like the Klipch Mcclaren but they have an annoying tendency for start beeping in the case and the only way I’ve found to shut them up is to plug the case in to charge


----------



## JoshG1217

Luke Skywalker said:


> Totally agree on the FoKus!  I like the Klipch Mcclaren but they have an annoying tendency for start beeping in the case and the only way I’ve found to shut them up is to plug the case in to charge


Still not sure I like them better than the xm4. The xm4 are definitely fuller amd are louder on the same settings, which is interesting, bur the Fokus do have a bir more separation and maybe... space? Perhaps slightly nite analytical but less fun? Still comparing. The others were all really obvious. These are the only ones that are actually a contender.


----------



## productred

JoshG1217 said:


> So, because I am obsessed, I purchased the following to compare to my sony xm4 tws:
> 
> 1. Akg n400
> 2. Devialet Gemeni
> ...



Of cos YMMV...........but totally disagree on the JVC/Victor, the fit is admittedly not the most secure due to the larger size of the unit but it is simply the best sounding of the bunch by a vast margin...........I seriously suspect it is the only offering out there that actually looks into how to make a TWS sounds good instead of simply applying normal wired methods into the TWS mould. The Fokus comes a distant second but I can live with it through the day too, nothing offensive to the ears. None of the others I can say that unfortunately.


----------



## JoshG1217

productred said:


> Of cos YMMV...........but totally disagree on the JVC/Victor, the fit is admittedly not the most secure due to the larger size of the unit but it is simply the best sounding of the bunch by a vast margin...........I seriously suspect it is the only offering out there that actually looks into how to make a TWS sounds good instead of simply applying normal wired methods into the TWS mould. The Fokus comes a distant second but I can live with it through the day too, nothing offensive to the ears. None of the others I can say that unfortunately.


Is there an app that makes a difference? Because without it, they just aren't doing it. Tried different tips, adjusted EQ, and I was pretty disappointed. I'll try them again in the morning before returning them, but I wasn't getting a sound I thought was anything to write home about at all.


----------



## productred (Apr 27, 2022)

JoshG1217 said:


> Is there an app that makes a difference? Because without it, they just aren't doing it. Tried different tips, adjusted EQ, and I was pretty disappointed. I'll try them again in the morning before returning them, but I wasn't getting a sound I thought was anything to write home about at all.



I'd say they don't need any app, but they'd really shine with both K2 and ANC both left on. They are the only pair of TWS that sounds somewhere near what I could call "balanced", with real solid mids and without boomy mid-bass and peaky mid-highs, together with impressive detailing. They are also the only paid of TWS at this stage that got some decent high extension.

I'd also recommend not to switch to 3rd party tips, the spiral dots are awesome despite not being the most isolating tips (that's where the ANC kicks in and omplements them well).

FYI I use my TWS exclusively with my iPhone XS and Apple Music.


----------



## Juturna (Apr 19, 2022)

I'm so vibing with these Galaxy Buds Pro. I also find them really comfortable which also certainly helps. I was worried that they'd be uncomfortable based on what I've heard from some people, saying that they are large and fit weird in the ear canal and fall out etc.
For me their one of the smallest and most low-profile earbuds I've used.  

I just found out that I'm getting a new pair of Technics AZ60 after having my pair RMA'd, thinking if I should just sell them since I'm getting brand them brand new in box, because I like these GBPs ALMOST as much as the Technics. The ANC is worse, the sub bass isn't quite  as good on the GBP but they sound hell of a lot better without EQ compared to the Technics...  Now I do enjoy the Technics so damn much, but I'm still curious if I can pick up another pair that sounds even better than them. Curious to try the Anker Liberty 3 Pro, but I'm not sure if I would like them more or less than the AZ60... probably less but still curious!


----------



## james444

productred said:


> Of cos YMMV...........but totally disagree on the JVC/Victor, the fit is admittedly not the most secure due to the larger size of the unit but it is simply the best sounding of the bunch by a vast margin...........I seriously suspect it is the only offering out there that actually looks into how to make a TWS sounds good instead of simply applying normal wired methods into the TWS mould. The Fokus comes a distant second but I can live with it through the day too, nothing offensive to the ears. None of the others I can say that unfortunately.



I agree that the JVC FW1000T can potentially sound very good, but the stock tuning without ANC is a bit too warm and borderline muddy in my book.

These are measurements with ANC (red) and without (blue), diffuse-field compensated, so DF-neutral would be a horizontal line:







It's easy to see that ANC takes the warmth out of the lower mids and makes them sound more neutral. However, the upper mids / lower treble bump around 4kHz stays the same, so I actually leave ANC off and EQ both the lower mids / upper bass range and the 4kHz range a few dBs down.

Extension at both ends of the frequency range is very good, so I agree, with a little EQ correction these can sound pretty damn good.

Unfortunately, I haven't been able to measure the effect of K2, but going by ear, I feel that it smoothes the transients a bit, so I personally tend to leave it off.


----------



## jant71

JVC can sound good but they can't tune. They have been at least little midbass blind. Of course then they do the FXD and go a bit too lean the other way overcompensating. I like to use my JVC's with their ambient tips which ups the stage and balance.

The one I still wonder about is the Kenwood model with the Be driver. That one does have an app and wireless charging.


----------



## Juturna

Asabides said:


> My AZ60 also discharge rather evenly. FYI


My Technics AZ60 that I had to RMA because of channel imbalance or whatever you would call it, had very uneven discharge. One of my earbuds usually died when the other one had between 12-20% left, so what the first person said checks out for me anyway. Mine were like that at least, maybe that's why they also failed.


----------



## Juturna

botmann said:


> I have H1s too.   I have Soundpeats True engine 3 too.   I have a few of Soundpeats cheapest TWS too.   I like the H1s the best.   They're not nearly a bassy compared to the their models I have.   The dual driver setup keeps the sound more clear at louder volumes.   My issue with them is that the tips get too warm or too much ear wax builds in the ear or tips, they tend to fall out.   I had the same issue with the True Engines.   Personally, I don't think they're a good buy at $80US.   They're more a $50-$60 purchase to me.   Heck, I would write Soundpeats and see if they're willing to cut you bigger discount.   The other issue is that that ear filter isn't really replaceable, but it is.   I have Etyomic Research IEM and they have filters to switch out when they got gunked with the dirt and wax.   The Soundpeats you need to clean periodically.   They are ear filters you can buy third party that work; I learned this from Soundpeats after a few complaints.   If you like fancy apps or something, Soundpeats is not it.   The H1s do have an app, but it's pretty limited in function; I mainly use for firmware updates.   It gives battery percentage.   I think there is some kind of EQ or one of those custom ear staging based on your actual hearing.   The H1s power case does have wireless and USB C charging.    Along the same lines, they do have pretty good power life.   I use mine all the time, and I end up charging my case about once a month.   I generally don't listen at max volume; round 25-50%
> 
> On a side note, I will say Soundpeats customer service is pretty good.   I had the ear filters come off from not cleaning them regularly.   I wrote Soundpeats to complain.   One time they offered to replaced the unit when it came back in stock.   I eventually negotiated to get a big discount on a new purchase for a new model; around 40%-50%, which they did through a refund.


Yeah, I'm not a huge fan of the H1's and I just don't think I'll ever be. For the price they sound good but honestly their app is not only godawful, it's downright dangerous. I did a "hear test" thing that was supposed to adapt the sound to your hearing, and after going through the test I played some music and it was honestly like somebody cranked the volume up to (not exaggerating) 300%. The sound was broken and distorted because it was so loud, and I literally screamed and ripped the earbuds out of my ears. My earcanals literally felt like they were throbbing for several hours after.

I don't distrust SoundPeats on that alone, they make products that are definitely worth the money in most cases, but I will only use my H1s as a backup bud. If they sounded like Fokus Pro's I'd definitely look beyond that incident with the hearing test, but I think they're very boring. Clean, kinda good, but no sparkle, no life anywhere in the sound register, at least not to my ears. Also that case is big CHONK deluxe.


----------



## jasonb

I’m still really enjoying the AKG N400. With spinfit CP360’s the fit and comfort and of course the sound is great. I prefer the CP360’s for pretty much every TWS I try. This one pair of them have been on so many different pairs of buds I’ve lost track. My AirPods Pro have definitely been set aside in favor of these. I’ll probably keep the AirPods just cause they work so well with the whole apple ecosystem, but for music I’ll be using the n400’s. I’m glad I took a chance on them for $47, and I’m still blown away that they are letting these go for such a good price.


----------



## HaliHarry (Apr 19, 2022)

productred said:


> I'd say they don't need an amp, but they'd really shine with both K2 and ANC both left on. They are the only pair of TWS that sounds somewhere near what I could call "balanced", with real solid mids and without boomy mid-bass and peaky mid-highs, together with impressive detailing. They are also the only paid of TWS at this stage that got some decent high extension.
> 
> I'd also recommend not to switch to 3rd party tips, the spiral dots are awesome despite not being the most isolating tips (that's where the ANC kicks in and omplements them well).
> 
> FYI I use my TWS exclusively with my iPhone XS and Apple Music.


Spiral dot go with fw1000t is good. But try spiral dot ++ tip go with fw10000 with color core and you’ll get the prize


----------



## Luke Skywalker

My Monarch Mkii‘s are coming tomorrow (-:  I’ll have to make due with my UTWS3s until my 5s come


----------



## HaliHarry

Details on fw1000t are great but it sounds really boring and needs a bit eq.  Unfortunately i can't use wavelet on iphone so i used Spotify built-in eq.  Now it's amazing


----------



## nekonhime

Juturna said:


> I'm so vibing with these Galaxy Buds Pro. I also find them really comfortable which also certainly helps. I was worried that they'd be uncomfortable based on what I've heard from some people, saying that they are large and fit weird in the ear canal and fall out etc.
> For me their one of the smallest and most low-profile earbuds I've used.
> 
> I just found out that I'm getting a new pair of Technics AZ60 after having my pair RMA'd, thinking if I should just sell them since I'm getting brand them brand new in box, because I like these GBPs ALMOST as much as the Technics. The ANC is worse, the sub bass isn't quite  as good on the GBP but they sound hell of a lot better without EQ compared to the Technics...  Now I do enjoy the Technics so damn much, but I'm still curious if I can pick up another pair that sounds even better than them. Curious to try the Anker Liberty 3 Pro, but I'm not sure if I would like them more or less than the AZ60... probably less but still curious!


There are the akg 400nc, b&o eq


----------



## JoshG1217

I don't get the jvc appeal. Listened some more. There is no app, and the fit and sound just aren't there at all, like zero percent. 

For thr Fokus, I'm telling you all, get these. Night and day vs the stocktips and even vs spin fit. I don't love thr fokus at the gym. I didn't realize these don't have anc and it makes a difference. So sony xm4 for gym and fokus pro for home. Everything else back to Amazon! Shoutout to akg though. For $74, they are tough to beat.


----------



## nekonhime

JoshG1217 said:


> I don't get the jvc appeal. Listened some more. There is no app, and the fit and sound just aren't there at all, like zero percent.
> 
> For thr Fokus, I'm telling you all, get these. Night and day vs the stocktips and even vs spin fit. I don't love thr fokus at the gym. I didn't realize these don't have anc and it makes a difference. So sony xm4 for gym and fokus pro for home. Everything else back to Amazon! Shoutout to akg though. For $74, they are tough to beat.


I am waiting for the fokus anc version like the falcon one. The akg only a few steps below the eq which beat me by surprise lol


----------



## productred

HaliHarry said:


> Spiral dot go with fw1000t is good. But try spiral dot ++ tip go with fw10000 with color core and you’ll get the prize



I have all that but what I was referring to is the newest generation Spiral dot pro that comes with the FW1000t, suits them best


----------



## Luke Skywalker

nekonhime said:


> I am waiting for the fokus anc version like the falcon one. The akg only a few steps below the eq which beat me by surprise lol


Ya I actually canceled my order for the Falcon ANC and got the FoKus Pro instead based on everyone saying how great the latter sounds.  I agree, however I wonder what the  Falcon ANC might sound like.  The FoKus sounds great but I do wish it had ANC even though the isolation is good


----------



## nekonhime

Luke Skywalker said:


> Ya I actually canceled my order for the Falcon ANC and got the FoKus Pro instead based on everyone saying how great the latter sounds.  I agree, however I wonder what the  Falcon ANC might sound like.  The FoKus sounds great but I do wish it had ANC even though the isolation is good


Well, you can only know by purchase them then send them back lol, but if the noble audio able to retain the same sq as the non anc version of the falcon one ( not boosting the bass) then it will raise my hope up for the fokus pro anc.


----------



## Tenlow (Apr 20, 2022)

A bit more info on the Beoplay EX:

https://www.gearrice.com/update/these-high-end-headphones-feature-the-best-possible-technologies/
https://www.bang-olufsen.com/de/de/in-ear-kopfhoerer/beoplay-ex

- Stem design
- Wireless charging, multipoint Bluetooth, aptX Adaptive, Google Fast Pair, active noise reduction and IP57 waterproofing.
- 9.2 mm diameter transducers capable of reproducing sound frequencies from 20 to 20,000 Hz. --> _“unparalleled sound quality”_
- Bluetooth in version 5.2 and with codecs SBC, AAC and aptX Adaptive.
- Multipoint Bluetooth (two sources at the same time)
- ANC: Adaptive noise reduction +  transparent mode. --> _“impressive active noise reduction”_
- 70 mAh accumulators in each earphone and a 380 mAh battery in the case.
- 28 hours with the charging case and 8 hours for the headphones alone, without ANC. With ANC 6 hours.
- Qi wireless charging.
- 6 grams per earpiece + the 66.2 x 48 x 22mm case weighs 53 grams (without headphones)

- Four colors: They will be available in black from April 28, in gold from May 19 and in blue and gray from June 6.
- Launched in Europe at a *price of 399€*

Typical B&O price, I would say 

I'm also not too fond on how they look from a design perspective. If it weren't for the B&O logo, they would look like cheap regular everyday TWS from any brand imo. Case looks alright, though.


----------



## C_Lindbergh

400 dollariedoes for a pair of TWS...No thank you 

I would gladly pay premium IEM-prices for a tws if they could guarantee battery recplacement for at least 5-10 years and long-term software support.


----------



## LordToneeus

One of my first tws purchases was the QCY T1C a few years ago (still have them), and I was always pleased with what they did for $20. Saw the QCY T16 as a lightning deal for $21.98 a couple days ago, and just couldn’t resist. Got them yesterday, and I am once again pleasantly surprised. They’re sleek and small, fit well, connect flawlessly, and they sound great. No bells and whistles to speak of, save a “gaming mode”, but they claim to support aptX, AAC, SBC, and “a new aptX Adaptive Audio”. Apparently, there’s a QCY app, but I haven’t gone hunting for that yet.


----------



## Luke Skywalker

nekonhime said:


> Well, you can only know by purchase them then send them back lol, but if the noble audio able to retain the same sq as the non anc version of the falcon one ( not boosting the bass) then it will raise my hope up for the fokus pro anc.


Ya I never return anything I buy.  Too much work


----------



## erockg

Tenlow said:


> A bit more info on the Beoplay EX:
> 
> https://www.gearrice.com/update/these-high-end-headphones-feature-the-best-possible-technologies/
> https://www.bang-olufsen.com/de/de/in-ear-kopfhoerer/beoplay-ex
> ...


Release dates for them are different here in the US.  Don't worry, I'll be the guinea pig and try them as @jant71 and @BooleanBones can attest to.  I'm in therapy, honest.  It's called no more WFH and hybrid now.  Feel my pain...


----------



## erockg

Somehow I got into a preorder for the Sennheiser Momentum True Wireless 3 via Amazon US.  Doesn't ship until May 12, but I had a nice gift card burning a hole in my pocket.


----------



## tonyfiore75

erockg said:


> Somehow I got into a preorder for the Sennheiser Momentum True Wireless 3 via Amazon US.  Doesn't ship until May 12, but I had a nice gift card burning a hole in my pocket.


I was abe to find that page one day. I've tried since and haven't been able to. That might just be my own lack of Amazon skills, though. I'll try again right now, haha. But good on you! I'm sure everyone is dying to know what those are gonna sound like, including myself!


----------



## erockg

tonyfiore75 said:


> I was abe to find that page one day. I've tried since and haven't been able to. That might just be my own lack of Amazon skills, though. I'll try again right now, haha. But good on you! I'm sure everyone is dying to know what those are gonna sound like, including myself!


Oh, no, same here.  I had saved it in my wish list and then a few days later it let me preorder.  But if you try and access the page directly, it does the old "oh no" as if the page is down.  Very weird.


----------



## tonyfiore75 (Apr 20, 2022)

erockg said:


> Oh, no, same here.  I had saved it in my wish list and then a few days later it let me preorder.  But if you try and access the page directly, it does the old "oh no" as if the page is down.  Very weird.


The Amazon, "Oh no, something went wrong" page angers me unlike anything else!


----------



## tonyfiore75

Duuuupe


----------



## natalieann

erockg said:


> Release dates for them are different here in the US.  Don't worry, I'll be the guinea pig and try them as @jant71 and @BooleanBones can attest to.  I'm in therapy, honest.  It's called no more WFH and hybrid now.  Feel my pain...


Thank you! LOL! I'm not buying these until I read some accurate reviews. I'm not feeling anything about them.


----------



## bladefd

erockg said:


> Somehow I got into a preorder for the Sennheiser Momentum True Wireless 3 via Amazon US.  Doesn't ship until May 12, but I had a nice gift card burning a hole in my pocket.


Good, Guinea pig, good!


----------



## jant71 (Apr 20, 2022)

Senn Sport True Wireless. If true though they seem to think for "sport" you only need up to aptX.






Seems ~$150 and you only get aptX is still typical Senn. For that price you do get a strap...



Just don't get Senn. App based so you need the app and set it to Focus and change the eartips or Aware with those eartips?? Should be a couple of posts in the lid to hold the other type of tips in your size. What is the point when there is already ambient and ANC out there. I already had this with JVC so this seems like a rip off of the AE5T. Should be the same and the open eartips lose seal and bass so the Aware mode is probably adding bass back. But the JVC had it on board so I could use the open tips and turn on bass boost w/o opening up an app. I would hope Senn could do it on board and not need the app. JVC also only had aptX and 9 hours per charge but back then there only was aptX. More in the JVC design as far as sports. Let's see the Senn case do this...


----------



## Tenlow (Apr 20, 2022)

They're not that cheap looking anymore


----------



## Toom

Just pulled the trigger on the Noble Fokus Pro, should be with me in a week or so. Will see how they stack up against the Senn Mtw2 and Galaxy Buds Pro.


----------



## jant71 (Apr 20, 2022)

Tenlow said:


> They're not that cheap looking anymore



Never looked cheap nor did they look like they are worth $400 either. To me anyway. 

Why is that dude calling them E10?? EQ is not a roman numeral it is E-Q. E8 has a normal numeral not EVIII. EX should be E-X, no??


----------



## BooleanBones

Tenlow said:


> They're not that cheap looking anymore



I'm sold


----------



## Tenlow (Apr 20, 2022)

jant71 said:


> Never looked cheap nor did they look like they are worth $400 either. To me anyway.
> 
> Why is that dude calling them E10?? EQ is not a roman numeral it is E-Q. E8 has a normal numeral not EVIII. EX should be E-X, no??


Well the HX are also pronounced "ten", aren't they?

I initially thought the stems looked like very cheap plastic somehow but they are not. Also, the glass touch pads are a nice, well, touch...


----------



## jant71

Tenlow said:


> Well the HX are also pronounced "ex", aren't they?
> 
> I initially thought the stems looked like very cheap plastic somehow but they are not. Also, the glass touch pads are a nice, well, touch...


You are agreeing with me.  He called the HX the H10 as well.


----------



## erockg

I’ll preorder the Beoplay EX, E10, whatever.  Can’t wait!


----------



## C_Lindbergh

You still can't fully customize touch controls and set music to auto-pause when enabling ambient for B&O's tws right?


----------



## Tenlow

erockg said:


> I’ll preorder the Beoplay EX, E10, whatever.  Can’t wait!


I will probably check them out as well. Let's hope they added a bit more volume for us poor iOS people  The fit will definitely be better compared to the EQ, I think. The EX look a bit like the Nothing Ear1 which have the best fit for me out of all TWS bar none (they are lighter than the EX, though).


----------



## jant71 (Apr 23, 2022)

Got some Audio Technica TWX9 stuff...
Confidentiality time is over and the FCC listing is "down" so perhaps the stuff is going up and real pics will be up sometime soon. Quick start guide has also appeared. Funky case with 5 battery lights now. If the proportions are right we are back to a smaller size here for case and buds.


----------



## kDbJ (Apr 20, 2022)

jant71 said:


> Never looked cheap nor did they look like they are worth $400 either. To me anyway.
> 
> Why is that dude calling them E10?? EQ is not a roman numeral it is E-Q. E8 has a normal numeral not EVIII. EX should be E-X, no??


----------



## jant71

kDbJ said:


> "X" is the Roman "10"


I ain't buyin' no B&O if they are gonna be swapping from English to Roman numerals all willy nilly like that. Who the f*ck do they think they are!


----------



## Luke Skywalker

Toom said:


> Just pulled the trigger on the Noble Fokus Pro, should be with me in a week or so. Will see how they stack up against the Senn Mtw2 and Galaxy Buds Pro.


Ha you’re gonna love them. The only ones I have that come close are the B&O EQ but even those don’t really compare


----------



## Juturna

If anyone knows of any reputable stores that sells the Fokus Pro within the EU, holla at me. Because I'm aching to try them out at some point at least, unless there's something coming out in the next few months that could rival it.


----------



## scubaphish

Speaking of B&O EQ, I’ve got a barely used RMA set I’m going to return to amazon. Got them for a great price but they just aren’t doing it for me. Would happily release them to one of you fine folk instead of returning, if you’re so inclined. Hit me up if you’ve been itching for a set of EQ and don’t mind them opened.


----------



## scubaphish

jant71 said:


> https://www.qucox.com/dunu-dtw-1000h-review/


Any idea when coming stateside?


----------



## erockg

New Philips buds coming.  Not my thing, but maybe someone else will dig them:  

https://www.amazon.com/Headphones-C...lja1JlZGlyZWN0JmRvTm90TG9nQ2xpY2s9dHJ1ZQ&th=1


----------



## tonyfiore75

erockg said:


> New Philips buds coming.  Not my thing, but maybe someone else will dig them:
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/Headphones-Canceling-Reduction-Multipoint-Connectivity/dp/B09WCYXNQ7/ref=sr_1_33_sspa?crid=1DP9IWSUFTOHB&keywords=sennheiser+true+wireless&qid=1650560333&sprefix=sennheiser+true+wireles,aps,126&sr=8-33-spons&spLa=ZW5jcnlwdGVkUXVhbGlmaWVyPUEyWENNTzlBT1ZWMjRTJmVuY3J5cHRlZElkPUEwOTkzNjg2OFZJUUwxSEIwNVZTJmVuY3J5cHRlZEFkSWQ9QTA4NjYzNzQxMTZEREM3VVI4OTRFJndpZGdldE5hbWU9c3BfYnRmJmFjdGlvbj1jbGlja1JlZGlyZWN0JmRvTm90TG9nQ2xpY2s9dHJ1ZQ&th=1


Those things look massive!


----------



## erockg

erockg said:


> New Philips buds coming.  Not my thing, but maybe someone else will dig them:
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/Headphones-Canceling-Reduction-Multipoint-Connectivity/dp/B09WCYXNQ7/ref=sr_1_33_sspa?crid=1DP9IWSUFTOHB&keywords=sennheiser+true+wireless&qid=1650560333&sprefix=sennheiser+true+wireles,aps,126&sr=8-33-spons&spLa=ZW5jcnlwdGVkUXVhbGlmaWVyPUEyWENNTzlBT1ZWMjRTJmVuY3J5cHRlZElkPUEwOTkzNjg2OFZJUUwxSEIwNVZTJmVuY3J5cHRlZEFkSWQ9QTA4NjYzNzQxMTZEREM3VVI4OTRFJndpZGdldE5hbWU9c3BfYnRmJmFjdGlvbj1jbGlja1JlZGlyZWN0JmRvTm90TG9nQ2xpY2s9dHJ1ZQ&th=1


More appealing after this article:  philips-t8506-review


----------



## erockg

tonyfiore75 said:


> Those things look massive!


They look like the Grell, which are big, but smaller than everyone thought, or at least smaller than I thought.  Have to be to fit that 13mm driver in there!


----------



## blomman77

Juturna said:


> If anyone knows of any reputable stores that sells the Fokus Pro within the EU, holla at me. Because I'm aching to try them out at some point at least, unless there's something coming out in the next few months that could rival it.


I bought mine from www.audiomagic.eu
Not cheap with shipping to sweden,but no taxes etc,so maybe not that more expensive than buying from US.
The customer service is also very responsive.


----------



## jant71 (Apr 21, 2022)

scubaphish said:


> Any idea when coming stateside?



Not sure. You can ask them since they are on Head-Fi. Last I heard they were domestic probably until they could get them certified to come over. I posted that review cause I figure the English packaging and review might be a good sign but I haven't heard they are going international just yet. There are other issues for them as well coming out of lockdowns and supply issues.



tonyfiore75 said:


> Those things look massive!


They are capable of pretty nice ergo designs if they want to but for the higher end they are still in the big phase.



 The $150 Noise cancelling pro model. Would be nice to have this size and shape of the 5556 which still has a 12mm driver in it. I think the 5556 is newer and has aptX while the other doesn't as it ops for LDAC. I don't so I would go for the newer one since 2/3 of my listening is with a Cowon and Ruizu X51 and neither does LDAC.


----------



## nekonhime

erockg said:


> New Philips buds coming.  Not my thing, but maybe someone else will dig them:
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/Headphones-Canceling-Reduction-Multipoint-Connectivity/dp/B09WCYXNQ7/ref=sr_1_33_sspa?crid=1DP9IWSUFTOHB&keywords=sennheiser+true+wireless&qid=1650560333&sprefix=sennheiser+true+wireles,aps,126&sr=8-33-spons&spLa=ZW5jcnlwdGVkUXVhbGlmaWVyPUEyWENNTzlBT1ZWMjRTJmVuY3J5cHRlZElkPUEwOTkzNjg2OFZJUUwxSEIwNVZTJmVuY3J5cHRlZEFkSWQ9QTA4NjYzNzQxMTZEREM3VVI4OTRFJndpZGdldE5hbWU9c3BfYnRmJmFjdGlvbj1jbGlja1JlZGlyZWN0JmRvTm90TG9nQ2xpY2s9dHJ1ZQ&th=1


I might dig them, the frequency range is huge lol.


----------



## jant71

nekonhime said:


> I might dig them, the frequency range is huge lol.


What's up with that? $100 more and the Fidelio T1 adds and armature and they have the same frequency range? What a rip!!


----------



## Juturna

blomman77 said:


> I bought mine from www.audiomagic.eu
> Not cheap with shipping to sweden,but no taxes etc,so maybe not that more expensive than buying from US.
> The customer service is also very responsive.


Thanks! How much was the shipping to Sweden? I feel like it's just slightly too expensive, I feel like I could pay 3500 SEK but more than that and I just feel like it hurts my soul just a little bit.


----------



## blomman77

If i recall corectly it was around 20 USD.
I hear ya,i felt the same way.
But in the end,curiosity took over.     It's like my brain and right hand has their own minds.
My brain says nope,won't buy it,don't need it.suddenly the hand just bought a new iem once again...
Very strange...


Juturna said:


> Thanks! How much was the shipping to Sweden? I feel like it's just slightly too expensive, I feel like I could pay 3500 SEK but more than that and I just feel like it hurts my soul just a little bit.


----------



## Toom

blomman77 said:


> If i recall corectly it was around 20 USD.
> I hear ya,i felt the same way.
> But in the end,curiosity took over.     It's like my brain and right hand has their own minds.
> My brain says nope,won't buy it,don't need it.suddenly the hand just bought a new iem once again...
> Very strange...


You have already made the decision - the brain stuff is just you making yourself feel bad about it 😂


----------



## nekonhime

jant71 said:


> What's up with that? $100 more and the Fidelio T1 adds and armature and they have the same frequency range? What a rip!!


Lol, a rip off indeed. I laughed when I look at the T1 size, but the differences between dynamic and BA driver are quite big


----------



## MarkGL

Hi guys, I'm looking for TWS earbuds mostly just for home use and potentially for travelling also but rarely. Which would you recommend for this, say around the $100-$150 price range?


----------



## Jack Leonard

Got one, so far so good.


----------



## JoshG1217

Luke Skywalker said:


> My Monarch Mkii‘s are coming tomorrow (-:  I’ll have to make due with my UTWS3s until my 5s come


I'm selling my Ifi custom rigged dap if you're interested. https://www.head-fi.org/classifieds...tcl-phone-400-gb-card-and-custom-cable.24344/


----------



## jant71

nekonhime said:


> Lol, a rip off indeed. I laughed when I look at the T1 size, but the differences between dynamic and BA driver are quite big


Size of course is not the major thing. Highly doubt they put a better driver in the 8506. Some potential benefits from 13mm vs. 10mm but far from the whole story. When they pay and get LDAC, regardless of the real world results you can get, they get to put the 40,000 on the package. They should be required to put a real graph showing what they really extend to. The 40K means nothing.

I would think in reality the two driver will out perform, the total battery life is better, the ANC might be a bit better, and a few more little features. The metal build as well. You get things for the extra $100. We might get comparisons and some opinions on the worth of the price difference.

What we really need is for them to include volume controls. Not cool at $200 and $300 to not have VC on the buds. Again they Philips higher stuff is still too big in size and no volume control so plenty of people just choose something else.


----------



## Ceeluh7

jant71 said:


> Size of course is not the major thing. Highly doubt they put a better driver in the 8506. Some potential benefits from 13mm vs. 10mm but far from the whole story. When they pay and get LDAC, regardless of the real world results you can get, they get to put the 40,000 on the package. They should be required to put a real graph showing what they really extend to. The 40K means nothing.
> 
> I would think in reality the two driver will out perform, the total battery life is better, the ANC might be a bit better, and a few more little features. The metal build as well. You get things for the extra $100. We might get comparisons and some opinions on the worth of the price difference.
> 
> What we really need is for them to include volume controls. Not cool at $200 and $300 to not have VC on the buds. Again they Philips higher stuff is still too big in size and no volume control so plenty of people just choose something else.


Agree man... No volume controls is ridiculous. Also having a BA isn't always a good thing as BA timbre can come into play which... If not done right can sound really odd to a discerning ear. Single DD's have a better shot at cohesion but they to have obvious drawbacks. Point is until some actual "Audio" reviewers get thier hands on these and not the YouTube tws reviewers, then it's a hard pass for me... At least for now. They may be spectacular. Lately there has been quite a few hybrid setups and the great majority haven't gotten the timbre right. At least to my ears. Also, you are 100% correct about the 40k. Well it's great that you added a codec with this type of support but where is an actual graph. Honestly I'd like to see some 3rd party graphs at some point.


----------



## Tjdx

Just trying the Symbio W on the Soundpeats Mini Pro... oh gosh thumbs ups for this eartips now I can have a solid seal in both ears, I bought the 3 pairs (S, M and L) to try them out, and Im happy to report that they do not cause any problem with the case (at least the S and M).

Also the sound improved im picking better bass (definition, punch and extension)... i think 80% due to the better fit. 

For the price this are a must have! Im anxious to try them on the FH5. 

Tested so far with:

Rosewood - Bonobo.
Riders on the Storm - Fredwerck Remix
Texas Sun - Khruangbin
Uprising - Muse
Drive - Incubus
One Mississippi - Kane Brown
What is Love - 7" Mix
Shivers - Ed Sheeran
Ridin - Offrami 
Enjoy the Silence - Depeche Mode
And a few others...


----------



## tombrisbane

Tenlow said:


> They're not that cheap looking anymore


Ordered some - only the black/teal available here at the moment.  Still love and use my EQ everyday, sounds like these may just be a nice improvement.

Also been using the link buds everyday when walking my dog, great to stay aware.  I generally just listen to audiobooks/podcasts on them.


----------



## parawizard

MarkGL said:


> Hi guys, I'm looking for TWS earbuds mostly just for home use and potentially for travelling also but rarely. Which would you recommend for this, say around the $100-$150 price range?



I picked up some Galaxy Buds 2 as my first foray into TWS. Liking them more and more and they're pretty cheap. Think there are a lot of options in that price range. Maybe give us a bit of hint of what kind of tuning you like?


----------



## Juturna

blomman77 said:


> If i recall corectly it was around 20 USD.
> I hear ya,i felt the same way.
> But in the end,curiosity took over.     It's like my brain and right hand has their own minds.
> My brain says nope,won't buy it,don't need it.suddenly the hand just bought a new iem once again...
> Very strange...


Tack! Får se om det blir några såna till sommaren. Är svårt när man köper "grisen i säcken" för såna priser när man inte ens vet om man skulle gilla dom.  

----------

Sorry y'all other people for the Swedish, I swear I didn't badmouth anyone in my ooga-booga language.

In other news, I'm quite shocked that I think I enjoy the sound of the Galaxy Buds Pro more than I do the Technics AZ60, at least if we're talking stock EQ. 

Might need to spend more time EQ:ing the Technics though, but that's the thing, the GBPs sound pretty much the way I want them to even without EQ. 

As in, I could absolutely imagine the sound being *better*, but the frequency response is pretty much on par with what I like and feels really balanced without being flat, and pretty much what I feel the music "actually" sounds like in most cases. The sub-bass rumble is there when it's needed, the mid-bass is not bloated, it's fast and natural on tracks that aren't produced to be bass-heavy. When I'm outside in loud areas I sometimes find myself thinking the earbuds sound a _little_ too thin in the bass region on the standard EQ setting, but it's a small nitpick.
The mids are also really clean and have very decent clarity. They might lack a LITTLE warmth in the mid-section but it's nothing I spend too much time thinking on. Treble is good, a little splashy at times but once again, nothing I spend much time thinking about unless I'm specifically thinking about it. 
I feel like they have a larger soundstage than the Technics as well, and it makes it easier to pick up instruments that are more subtle in the mix. 

I also love that the buds are extremely low-profile and the case is also very sleek. 

What I don't like is the fact that the ANC is a bit weak, and it seems like the earbuds have a hard time picking up my voice when I'm not speaking loudly, might be the noise cancelling being to aggressive thinking it's something from my surroundings rather than my voice. So if I'm trying to say something a bit quieter people usually say that they couldn't hear what I said at all. 
The battery is also not great, not bad at all but also not exactly fantastic.


----------



## jant71

Up for pre-order here... https://audio46.com/products/sennheiser-sport-true-wireless?currency=USD&variant=42973499162857&utm_medium=cpc&utm_source=google&utm_campaign=Google Shopping&_vsrefdom=adwords&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI4uKals6q9wIViuezCh1qUgMlEAQYASABEgKWO_D_BwE

You can tell it is "sport" because it has water droplets on it. 




At least it is $129 and not $149 in the US. Still very odd. No noise cancelling which might be nice in the gym nor an ambient mode if you are not using the open tips to stop and talk to somebody? First review... https://www.coachmag.co.uk/gear/sports-headphones/sennheiser-sport-true-wireless-review ...which does confirm the bass mode is pretty much that and only switched in the app.


----------



## m4rkw

I really want to know how good the ANC on the BeoPlay EX is. If it's on par with the WF-1000XM4 or better I'm very likely going to return my Sonys and buy the EX.


----------



## JoshG1217

So the Fokus Pro... so good. The more I listen, the more I love them. Azla Sedna being them alive as they do for all iems. Still too open for gym noise, but great for home or less noisy environments.


----------



## m4rkw

turn on english subtitles via settings, at around 9:30 he does ANC tests, looks like the BeoPlay EX is a couple of dB short of the AirPods Pro. That's a bit disappointing, I'll probably keep the Sony's then.


----------



## Toom

JoshG1217 said:


> So the Fokus Pro... so good. The more I listen, the more I love them. Azla Sedna being them alive as they do for all iems. Still too open for gym noise, but great for home or less noisy environments.


Do you have a link got the AS tips? I may have some already, but will need to check. Can't wait got my Fokus Pros to arrive....


----------



## BigZ12

I tried my Azla Xelastec tips with newly (just now) updated MW08 Sport. 
ANC set to "All day". 
The MW08S has never sounded better. Punchier bass, less muddy and more crispy and detailed.
BTW, the mics is WAY better than before after the 2 latest updates.


----------



## Tommy C

BigZ12 said:


> I tried my Azla Xelastec tips with newly (just now) updated MW08 Sport.
> ANC set to "All day".
> The MW08S has never sounded better. Punchier bass, less muddy and more crispy and detailed.
> *BTW, the mics is WAY better than before after the 2 latest updates.*


@erockg you gonna take them for a 3rd test drive? 😜


----------



## erockg

Tommy C said:


> @erockg you gonna take them for a 3rd test drive? 😜


Funny!  Nope.  Costco has a sick return policy.  I returned them and I'm done.  Unless M&D fixes the issue, I'll move on.  I emailed them a week ago and they never even replied.  Sad   I do love the buds.


----------



## BigZ12

Tommy C said:


> @erockg you gonna take them for a 3rd test drive? 😜


I have tested them with the three firmwares I've had on my MW08s. Using the iPhone Voice recorder.
1st version was atrocious, easy as that. 
2nd (updated a month ago?) was noticably better.
3rd, updated today, is very good. Clean and noticably louder than before. (note I haven't tested in noisy enviroments)


----------



## erockg

BigZ12 said:


> I have tested them with the three firmwares I've had on my MW08s. Using the iPhone Voice recorder.
> 1st version was atrocious, easy as that.
> 2nd (updated a month ago?) was noticably better.
> 3rd, updated today, is very good. Clean and noticably louder than before. (note I haven't tested in noisy enviroments)


I want those MW08 Sport, but I can't do it again.  I've had 4 pairs and updated via my iPhone to the most recent firmware.  Every single time, the mic was messed up.  So very frustrating.  Firmware 4.4.5.


----------



## BigZ12

erockg said:


> I want those MW08 Sport, but I can't do it again.  I've had 4 pairs and updated via my iPhone to the most recent firmware.  Every single time, the mic was messed up.  So very frustrating.  Firmware 4.4.5.


I updated to v5..3.9 just now.
With Azla Xelestec they really sound much better. Especially the highs, more crispy. (used Spinfit CP360 before)
And have tested several voice recordings. Very good and clean. Also called one of my friends for a quick test. He said I was clear as day, maybe a little "metallic" but very good.


----------



## BigZ12

BigZ12 said:


> I updated to v5..3.9 just now.
> With Azla Xelestec they really sound much better. Especially the highs, more crispy. (used Spinfit CP360 before)
> And have tested several voice recordings. Very good and clean. Also called one of my friends for a quick test. He said I was clear as day, maybe a little "metallic" but very good.


Aren't there other MW08S owners in here, with newly updated buds, who can support or disprove my findings?


----------



## clerkpalmer

tombrisbane said:


> Ordered some - only the black/teal available here at the moment.  Still love and use my EQ everyday, sounds like these may just be a nice improvement.
> 
> Also been using the link buds everyday when walking my dog, great to stay aware.  I generally just listen to audiobooks/podcasts on them.


Where are preorders up?


----------



## erockg

BigZ12 said:


> Aren't there other MW08S owners in here, with newly updated buds, who can support or disprove my findings?


Interesting.  I could be wrong, but if you're on 5.3.9 then they must have just pushed out that update.  Last week, I was only able to update to 4.3.5 on the MW08 Sport.


----------



## tombrisbane

clerkpalmer said:


> Where are preorders up?


Premium Sound for me (Australia).  They should ship next week


----------



## BooleanBones

tombrisbane said:


> Premium Sound for me (Australia).  They should ship next week


Will look forward to your report.


----------



## clerkpalmer

BooleanBones said:


> Will look forward to your report.


Me too. I’m actually hoping they can be like an APP on Steroids. For $400 they better deliver.


----------



## potix

Hi guys, any report about 1more EVO?


----------



## Caipirina

potix said:


> Hi guys, any report about 1more EVO?


What might that be? 

But I was wondering the other day myself, is there a 1more rumors scene? I'd love to hear about an updated version of the comfobuds Z with more battery life ... or if they can even cram ANC in that tiny body ... I have gotten to use them now every night after some initial issues (and they still have charging issues, I need to 'watch' them while charging with open case, to make sure they are 100% .. if I close case one side will disconnect, but discharge battery)


----------



## potix

Caipirina said:


> What might that be?
> 
> But I was wondering the other day myself, is there a 1more rumors scene? I'd love to hear about an updated version of the comfobuds Z with more battery life ... or if they can even cram ANC in that tiny body ... I have gotten to use them now every night after some initial issues (and they still have charging issues, I need to 'watch' them while charging with open case, to make sure they are 100% .. if I close case one side will disconnect, but discharge battery)


It is supposed to be their flagship hi-fi product in tws area. I'm not a fan of 1more sound signature but I'm curious.
https://usa.1more.com/products/1more-evo-true-wireless-active-noise-canceling-headphones


----------



## helmutcheese (Apr 24, 2022)

They sound ok to me, but battery and ANC are poor on the 1More's I have owned including the new PistonBud Pro's.

I can see by the box/screens etc they have LDAC, not sure on aptX but the total battery with case is 28 hours.


----------



## helmutcheese

ignore


----------



## Ralphee (Apr 24, 2022)

BigZ12 said:


> Aren't there other MW08S owners in here, with newly updated buds, who can support or disprove my findings?


Same here. MW08 with standard ear tips. I’ve updated to 5.3.9 last night, and I feel they are tuned a bit “hotter” now.

I liked their full warm bass, especially in ANC “max” setting, but didn’t like it becoming occasionally bloated. And I could do with a little less laid-back trebles.

I’m pleased to report that M&D corrected exactly these points. They didn’t diminish the bass punch in ANC “max” setting. I’d say bass tuning is very similar to before, but I feel it’s a little less “warm”. The bass doesn’t reach lower than before in absolute frequency, but it seems the weight has moved a tad more towards the lower end, separating it better from the mids.

Trebles have become a little crisper and ever so slightly grainy, which - for me - makes it much more entertaining to listen to.

Overall, no massive changes, though. But in my book the MW08 were already very good before…


----------



## BigZ12 (Apr 24, 2022)

Ralphee said:


> Same here. MW08 with standard ear tips. I’ve updated to 5.3.9 last night, and I feel they are tuned a bit “hotter” now.
> 
> I liked their full warm bass, especially in ANC “max” setting, but didn’t like it becoming occasionally bloated. And I could do with a little less laid-back trebles.
> 
> ...


What do you think of the mics with the latest update?

(Nice to see my ears actually heard the same differences as yours  )


----------



## jant71

Guess these might be coming pretty soon....




https://www.notebookcheck.net/Sony-...g-resemblance-to-the-WF-1000XM4.615061.0.html

New Sony ANC below the XM4 but smallest and best ergonomics/shape yet.


----------



## productred (Apr 25, 2022)

After more than a year since I first tried it out I finally managed to get hold of a pair of the very elusive AKG N400.............and right out of the box PURELY ON SOUND it had already usurped the Fokus Pro to become my 2nd best sound pair. New toy syndrome? hmmmm maybe but it is still consistent with my memories of what I heard a year back.

It fits perfectly, albeit on the chunky side. ANC and talkthru thing not the best out there but works ok, there is some very slight ANC hiss comparing to the newer offerings which has a pitch black background. Call quality average to above average. Control is superb with the latest firmware, performing much better than before on that front. Swipe control is way more responsive now, but still not totally reliable or predictable, maybe it takes more practice. App is nicely implemented. At the US store price it is an absolute steal, total no brainer. Even at the MSRP it is *arguably* well worth it if sound quality is the prime factor in your buying choice.


----------



## mikp

helmutcheese said:


> They sound ok to me, but battery and ANC are poor on the 1More's I have owned including the new PistonBud Pro's.
> 
> I can see by the box/screens etc they have LDAC, not sure on aptX but the total battery with case is 28 hours.



some youtuber says it doesnt have aptx. Also it reverts to aac everytime you take it out of the case.


----------



## Not so fat head

I feel a little bad that I called TWS’s under $50 garbage…. Maybe for some folks, that’s all they can afford…
I will say this, the can sound really good for the price paid.  👍


----------



## helmutcheese

Sennheiser Momentum True Wireless 3







https://www.trustedreviews.com/news...3-look-to-set-new-standards-for-sound-4228181

https://www.engadget.com/sennheiser-momentum-true-wireless-3-earbuds-announced-220016884.html

https://www.forbes.com/sites/marksp...rth-the-wait/?ss=consumertech&sh=3247b23f66c1


*Source:* https://www.reddit.com/r/Earbuds/comments/ubx1ck/the_news_embargo_on_sennheiser_momentum_true/

7 hours for a 7mm driver and no doubt on the AAC Codec is not very good today.


----------



## helmutcheese

TOZO T9S 2022 Version​https://www.amazon.com/TOZO-T9S-Environmental-Canceling-Call-Waterproof/dp/B09X13L2R2/ref=sr_1_5?crid=39RNDA2SHCAYY&keywords=bluetooth+5.3&qid=1650926312&sprefix=bluetooth+5.3,aps,172&sr=8-5

I have two pair of Tozo's and the ANC is near non-existent so 50dB (at least it claims) smells like BS (also they are BT 5.2 not BT 5.3 as in title)


----------



## clerkpalmer

https://www.pocket-lint.com/headpho...sen/160802-bang-and-olufsen-beoplay-ex-review


----------



## C_Lindbergh

clerkpalmer said:


> https://www.pocket-lint.com/headpho...sen/160802-bang-and-olufsen-beoplay-ex-review



Meh, B&O with their crazy prices... Sennheiser on the other hand is going the other way. 

It's kinda crazy that the brand new MTW3 will be around 40% cheaper compared to B&Os new offering.


----------



## clerkpalmer

C_Lindbergh said:


> Meh, B&O with their crazy prices... Sennheiser on the other hand is going the other way.
> 
> It's kinda crazy that the brand new MTW3 will be around 40% cheaper compared to B&Os new offering.


Fair enough. The Senns look like a repackaging of an old product. Not really bringing anything new to the table. Looks pretty mediocre. I’m sure they’ll be solid. A lower price recognizes the insane amount of competition in this category. 

The B&O looks more interesting to me - at least they are trying to deliver a premium product with a new form factor although you can certainly argue it’s a rip off of apple. 

 The EQs were terrific - looking forward to trying the EX. That said if they are not outstanding I will return them.


----------



## C_Lindbergh (Apr 25, 2022)

helmutcheese said:


> Sennheiser Momentum True Wireless 3
> 
> 
> 
> ...






clerkpalmer said:


> Fair enough. The Senns look like a repackaging of an old product. Not really bringing anything new to the table. Looks pretty mediocre. I’m sure they’ll be solid. A lower price recognizes the insane amount of competition in this category.
> 
> The B&O looks more interesting to me - at least they are trying to deliver a premium product with a new form factor although you can certainly argue it’s a rip off of apple.
> 
> The EQs were terrific - looking forward to trying the EX. That said if they are not outstanding I will return them.



Yeah, you're right in a way.

But at the same time, a TWS product is pretty much a desposible product, at least if you're a power user. Thus these types of products are very price sensitive.

Im sure the EXs will find their niche consumers, but if B&O ever want to move lots of products they gotta lower the price.

Unless the margins is very large for their TWS range ofc, then they'll do fine with their small core audience.


----------



## clerkpalmer (Apr 25, 2022)

C_Lindbergh said:


> Yeah, you're right in a way.
> 
> But at the same time, a TWS product is pretty much a desposible product, at least if you're a power user. Thus these types of products are very price sensitive.
> 
> ...


If I were a betting man, I’ll bet the EX will sound better the the Senns. That’s based on my experience with the MTW2 and the EQ. Whether it’s worth 40 percent more is a more difficult question for sure. For me - if they sound better, fit better and have better call quality that’s a winner in my book. But yeah $400 is pushing it for TWS. Seems to be working for them this far.


----------



## nekonhime

C_Lindbergh said:


> Yeah, you're right in a way.
> 
> But at the same time, a TWS product is pretty much a desposible product, at least if you're a power user. Thus these types of products are very price sensitive.
> 
> ...


Basically, you are paying for the luxury brand name like the Louis Vuitton handbags and stuffs.


----------



## C_Lindbergh

clerkpalmer said:


> If I were a betting man, I’ll bet the EX will sound better the the Senns. That’s based on my experience with the MTW2 and the EQ. Whether it’s worth 40 percent more is a more difficult question for sure. For me - if they sound better, for better and have better call quality that’s a winner in my book. But yeah $400 is pushing it for TWS. Seems to be working for them this far.


Oh yes, I'm sure the EXs will be a really great purchase for plenty of enthusiast on this site. 

I just don't see the TWS market as a +400$ market. At least not with the current tech, maybe if we ever get those solid state batteries 

The B&O stock is doing extremely poorly as well, don't think this product will help them unless the margins are incredible compared to the Sonys, Sennheisers etc. 

Personally I'd be thrilled to pay +1k$ for a premium TWS from an established brand, if I knew I could get the service level as you do when you buy an IEM/head phone in that price range. But given since TWS products are usually very difficult to service I don't think that market will exist :/


----------



## C_Lindbergh

nekonhime said:


> Basically, you are paying for the luxury brand name like the Louis Vuitton handbags and stuffs.


Except that a TWS won't hold value over time, on the contrary the value will drastically decrease to the point when it will be worthless (when the battery is either dead or very spent).


----------



## clerkpalmer (Apr 25, 2022)

nekonhime said:


> Basically, you are paying for the luxury brand name like the Louis Vuitton handbags and stuffs.


I don’t know if that’s a fair comparison.  Definitely paying something for the name but every B&O product I’ve owned has delivered on sound quality. Not audiophile grade stuff but in the consumer space it’s top notch.

Edit - my wife buys that LV stuff and says it’s worth every penny.


----------



## BooleanBones

I am curious how comparable the MT3s will be to their IE lineup (sound/tuning) since they are using the same drivers from what I have seen. I really enjoy my 600s, and 300s (albeit a much lesser extent).


----------



## C_Lindbergh

BooleanBones said:


> I am curious how comparable the MT3s will be to their IE lineup (sound/tuning) since they are using the same drivers from what I have seen. I really enjoy my 600s, and 300s (albeit a much lesser extent).



I can't wait to to get the IE600 with a TWS adapter like the UTWS5! Even tho I'll will still see the need for ordinary TWS when I workout or commuting


----------



## erockg

clerkpalmer said:


> Fair enough. The Senns look like a repackaging of an old product. Not really bringing anything new to the table. Looks pretty mediocre. I’m sure they’ll be solid. A lower price recognizes the insane amount of competition in this category.
> 
> The B&O looks more interesting to me - at least they are trying to deliver a premium product with a new form factor although you can certainly argue it’s a rip off of apple.
> 
> The EQs were terrific - looking forward to trying the EX. That said if they are not outstanding I will return them.


Right there with you.  I'll have them both in May.  That's what we do.


----------



## BooleanBones

C_Lindbergh said:


> I can't wait to to get the IE600 with a TWS adapter like the UTWS5! Even tho I'll will still see the need for ordinary TWS when I workout or commuting


Exact combo I am listening to at this very moment.


----------



## C_Lindbergh

BooleanBones said:


> Exact combo I am listening to at this very moment.



The most underrated feature about the new Senny IEM line-up is the "Pillow test", it's incredible that you can chill on your bed/couch with your ear against a pillow without disturbing the palcement of the IEM by much and still have that amazing sound.


----------



## erockg

clerkpalmer said:


> I don’t know if that’s a fair comparison.  Definitely paying something for the name but every B&O product I’ve owned has delivered on sound quality. Not audiophile grade stuff but in the consumer space it’s top notch.
> 
> Edit - my wife buys that LV stuff and says it’s worth every penny.


I'll opt for the high end TWS instead of a purse, murse, whatever!  

That said, no expectations with the Sennies.  But worth a try.  I tend to prefer the B&O sound signature.


----------



## BooleanBones

C_Lindbergh said:


> The most underrated feature about the new Senny IEM line-up is the "Pillow test", it's incredible that you can chill on your bed/couch with your ear against a pillow without disturbing the palcement of the IEM by much and still have that amazing sound.


Out of my lineup, none are more comfortable than these. I almost have to tie a string to them so they don’t disappear in my dumbo ears. You will need that adapter to use them with an BT adapter, which I’m sure you already saw.


----------



## erockg (Apr 25, 2022)

BooleanBones said:


> Out of my lineup, none are more comfortable than these. I almost have to tie a string to them so they don’t disappear in my dumbo ears. You will need that adapter to use them with an BT adapter, which I’m sure you already saw.


I should try this.  I rock those Thieaudio Monarch MK2 but man, sometimes they kill my left ear.  Too big.  Been mostly using the SeeAudio Midnight with the Shure TW2s lately and they're the same, fit like a glove.  No issues at all.

Can you drop a pic of your Sennie setup?  Would love to see it.


----------



## BooleanBones

erockg said:


> I should try this.  I rock those Thieaudio Monarch MK2 but man, sometimes they kill my left ear.  Too big.  Been mostly using the SeeAudio Midnight with the Shure TW2s lately and they're the same, fit like a glove.  No issues at all.


I tried the Sennies with the TW2 adapter, but they just feel a bit better with the FIIO. You mentioned that before that the TW2 isn't quite as flexible as the FIIO. I think they would work well if you didn't have that extra adapter in the fold as they have a similar style to the Aonics, but I landed on the UTSW5 (which came today)


----------



## C_Lindbergh (Apr 25, 2022)

About the EX, I would actually love to try them...But I just hate the fact that they don't offer the same software features as the Sennies/Technics... (and a few other OEM):

Fully Customizable controls
Automatic Pause music when enabling transparency

I've said it hundreds of times but for me those 2 features are incredibly important for TWS, convenience can't be underrated. BO should really be able to offer the same options in their app since they're one of the most pricy TWS on the market...  In fact the Software experience should be at the very top for that price-range imo.

I'll prob get them via Amazon since they have an excellent return policy, I'm quite curious how the ANC/Fit/SQ/Call is on the EX.


----------



## erockg

C_Lindbergh said:


> About the EX, I would actually love to try them...But I just hate the fact that they don't offer the same software features as the Sennies/Technics... (and a few other OEM):
> 
> Fully Customizable controls
> Automatic Pause music when enabling transparency
> ...


Sennheiser does the auto-pause/transparency mode right.  Same with Shure.  One of my favorite features.


----------



## C_Lindbergh (Apr 25, 2022)

erockg said:


> Sennheiser does the auto-pause/transparency mode right.  Same with Shure.  One of my favorite features.



Yeah, its an option in the Senny app, same with the Technics, prob a few more OEMs as well. It's deffo almost a must have feature for me, when I want to interact with the world the last thing I wanna do is go through 2 different controls on a tiny TWS earbud without customizable controls.

For example on the EX I'd first have to tap the right earbud once and the left earbud once...Just when I wanna talk with someone real quick. And when I wanna go back to my ANC/Music Its the same procedure...Or actually I'd have to double tap to cycle back to ANC lol.

With my AZ60 I just press and hold any of the left/right to pause music and go into transparency, and then the exact same gesture when I wanna go back to playing music/anc.


----------



## BooleanBones

erockg said:


> Sennheiser does the auto-pause/transparency mode right.  Same with Shure.  One of my favorite features.


I love it too, which is why I gave the TW2s first shot. Power was there, but the comfort was just ok. Think the mics are better than UTWS5, but haven’t tested. My Sennies-


----------



## erockg

C_Lindbergh said:


> Yeah, its an option in the Senny app, same with the Technics, prob a few more OEMs as well. It's deffo almost a must have feature for me, when I want to interact with the world the last thing I wanna do is go through 2 different controls on a tiny TWS earbud without customizable controls.
> 
> For example on the EX I'd first have to tap the right earbud once and the left earbud once...Just when I wanna talk with someone real quick. And when I wanna go back to my ANC/Music Its the same procedure...Or actually I'd have to double tap to cycle back to ANC lol.
> 
> With my AZ60 I just press and hold any of the left/right to pause music and go into transparency, and then the exact same gesture when I wanna go back to playing music/anc.


Yep, I've had them all.  So sad, but I have!


----------



## C_Lindbergh (Apr 25, 2022)

BooleanBones said:


> I love it too, which is why I gave the TW2s first shot. Power was there, but the comfort was just ok. Think the mics are better than UTWS5, but haven’t tested. My Sennies-



I so hope that Senn will release a TWS adapter for their new IEM range...Case could be small, the software could be tailored for the new IEMS (prob means excellent transparency mode) and it could serve as a great revenue stream for Senn since you'd have to replace the adapter after some time depeneing on how much you strain the battery. Fiio makes excellent hardware....but their software is crap...

Especially now when the BT tech is finally catching up (LC3+/Snapdragon Sound).


----------



## BooleanBones

C_Lindbergh said:


> I so hope that Senn will release a TWS adapter for their new IEM range...Case could be small, the software could be tailored for the new IEMS (prob means excellent transparency mode) and it could serve as a great revenue stream for Senn since you'd have to replace the adapter after some time depeneing on how much you strain the battery.
> 
> Especially now when the BT tech is finally catching up (LC3+/Snapdragon Sound).


I agree, I don't think it would be a huge effort on their part as they have some very similar products out there today. One variable in the mix might be that they segregated their consumer audio from their pro audio. The teams may not play nice in the sandbox together anymore


----------



## C_Lindbergh

BooleanBones said:


> I agree, I don't think it would be a huge effort on their part as they have some very similar products out there today. One variable in the mix might be that they segregated their consumer audio from their pro audio. The teams may not play nice in the sandbox together anymore


Oh didn't think about that...Hopefully that's not a hindrance.

Apparently this was a thing at Sony, were the Camera/Video department didn't wanna coopoerate with the Smartphone department.


----------



## erockg

BooleanBones said:


> I love it too, which is why I gave the TW2s first shot. Power was there, but the comfort was just ok. Think the mics are better than UTWS5, but haven’t tested. My Sennies-


Oh, thanks man!  Do you have that link to the adapter handy?  You're the devil.  Ugh.


----------



## BooleanBones (Apr 25, 2022)

erockg said:


> Oh, thanks man!  Do you have that link to the adapter handy?  You're the devil.  Ugh.


I try  Don't make the same mistake I did and order the two pin. I wasn't paying attention when I ordered initially and now have a two pin sitting in the desk. I may try and order the straight adapter as well to see if it fits any different. It may minimize some of the odd pivoting that you get placing them in the ears initially (still not bad).

MMCX to IE900


----------



## erockg

BooleanBones said:


> I try  Don't make the same mistake I did and order the two pin. I wasn't paying attention when I ordered initially and now have a two pin sitting in the desk.
> MMCX to IE900


Oof!  Eh, I have so many mistakes here at my desk.  It's like TWS musical chairs as always.  Doesn't look like the IE600s are even in stock anywhere right now.  Maybe that's a good thing!


----------



## BooleanBones

erockg said:


> Oof!  Eh, I have so many mistakes here at my desk.  It's like TWS musical chairs as always.  Doesn't look like the IE600s are even in stock anywhere right now.  Maybe that's a good thing!


Oh, they are in stock somewhere  I lost patience. They will be out here soon though, so no sense in rushing.


----------



## mikp

soo, mtw3 will not be compatible with aptx hd. Was afraid of that, so no reason to "upgrade".


----------



## Devodonaldson

C_Lindbergh said:


> The most underrated feature about the new Senny IEM line-up is the "Pillow test", it's incredible that you can chill on your bed/couch with your ear against a pillow without disturbing the palcement of the IEM by much and still have that amazing sound.


Pillow test, lol. Seeing as I listen to music via my portable player even as I go to bed, I'm so thankful I sleep flat on my back, no pillow, hands by my side. Whether iem or headphones,  I never ha e to be concerned with "sleeping comfort" as position doesn't come into play with me.


----------



## bizkid

Just watched a review from a trusted person on the Sennheiser MTW3. After everything they have released until now I already lost interest in any of their TWS offerings however after that review I will definitely check them out at some point. I found the MTW2 to be boring and steril with no extraordinary technicalities to make up for it. The MTW3 seems to have a tuning more in line with the cabled IE range, more musical and more fun. Slightly subdued treble and more bass than the MTW2. Very welcome changes to me but I’m sure not everyone will be happy about it.


----------



## Jon995

Not so fat head said:


> I feel a little bad that I called TWS’s under $50 garbage…. Maybe for some folks, that’s all they can afford…
> I will say this, the can sound really good for the price paid.  👍


Were the Mpow M5 around $50? Bassy but good, I still use mine as "showerbuds" but my favourite cheap set is the KZ Z1, bad battery life and hiss but awesome driver, volume and fit. My main set is Bose QuietComfort Earbuds so it's harder to listen to the cheaper ones now but not unbearable by any means.


----------



## Ceeluh7

C_Lindbergh said:


> I can't wait to to get the IE600 with a TWS adapter like the UTWS5! Even tho I'll will still see the need for ordinary TWS when I workout or commuting


IE600 with the utws5 would be bonkers good. If you can swing it you'd be swimming in music man. Cool. Ie300 aren't bad either


----------



## Ceeluh7

BooleanBones said:


> Exact combo I am listening to at this very moment.


I have yet to check out the IE600... How are you liking them so far. Also have you only had them in adapters? Just curious


----------



## alleroy (Apr 26, 2022)

Caipirina said:


> Have you made up your mind yet on the sound quality on those guys? It is difficult to judge the (shill?) reviews on youtube, which suspiciously keep talking about SQ to all the way to the end ... then saying things like 'after going through sound ID there the best bass ever' or vague like 'my kind of sound sig' ...
> 
> I just hate how AliExpress' gamification keeps drawing me in ... instead of 99$, now with sale and coupons and codes I get it to just below 59$ ... and I am very triggered by that small form factor ... I wish there were some reviews like Kenneth Tanaka on the Fiil T1 Lite "just get them, best SQ evah!"



Have you bought then eventually? Recently there has been a significant drop in prices in EU too (maybe because of the announcement of the forthcoming Evo), so I am again wondering if I should give the Mini a chance...


----------



## darveniza

C_Lindbergh said:


> Yeah, its an option in the Senny app, same with the Technics, prob a few more OEMs as well. It's deffo almost a must have feature for me, when I want to interact with the world the last thing I wanna do is go through 2 different controls on a tiny TWS earbud without customizable controls.
> 
> For example on the EX I'd first have to tap the right earbud once and the left earbud once...Just when I wanna talk with someone real quick. And when I wanna go back to my ANC/Music Its the same procedure...Or actually I'd have to double tap to cycle back to ANC lol.
> 
> With my AZ60 I just press and hold any of the left/right to pause music and go into transparency, and then the exact same gesture when I wanna go back to playing music/anc.


With the Sony Linkbuds you just talk and they pause the music for you, it works great and feel that others should implement


----------



## alleroy

C_Lindbergh said:


> The most underrated feature about the new Senny IEM line-up is the "Pillow test", it's incredible that you can chill on your bed/couch with your ear against a pillow without disturbing the palcement of the IEM by much and still have that amazing sound.



This would be a deciding factor in my case. So far the only iem I could side sleep with are the Smabat NCO thanks to their quite small size, but still the one against the pillow tends to go too much inside my ear and I end hearing only from the opposite one.


----------



## Caipirina

alleroy said:


> Have you bought then eventually? Recently there has been a significant drop in prices in EU too (maybe because of the announcement of the forthcoming Evo), so I am again wondering if I should give the Mini a chance...


I did cave in ... and they were shipped on 3/30 and STILL HAVE NOT ARRIVED !!! ... tracking is lacking ... but I got an ominous Fedex advisory about impending delivery on Thrusday which MIGHT be them ..


----------



## Caipirina

Not so fat head said:


> Still, my Bose soundsports free (old model) has by far the best sound stage and imaging..
> I probably have 30 of these TWS headphones, from $300 (Sennheiser) to $16 (cheapies but fun).  I’m always looking for that crazy bargain, but end up spending enough, that I should have just bought the B and W’s P7’s 😃


You know what, YOU bringing those up again made me look around the current amazon marketplace situation, and besides that one egghead whose refurb I had in my basket (and I guess amazon alerts them and then they can raise prices) I found another set Used-Very Good for a mere 55€ .. and it arrived today .. and it looks pristine! the previous owner never bothered to open / try the S / L eartips ... but they forgot to reset the buds, so I had to listen to looking for Shogo's mac, phone / ipad for a long while until i recalled how to reset the list ... now, next I need to test how well the battery still works ... from first hour of listening it seems ok ..   Very happy!


----------



## BooleanBones

Ceeluh7 said:


> I have yet to check out the IE600... How are you liking them so far. Also have you only had them in adapters? Just curious


I really like them a lot. It's amazing what they have done with that small configuration. They have sounded great so far and I have used them primarily wired, but started comparing the SQ with the adapters the last few days. The adapters make them a bit warmer I guess would be the best description, but they still sound awesome. I have yet to try them with the balanced cable due to some source issues on my end, but supposedly it's a different experience altogether (in a good way).


----------



## samandhi

helmutcheese said:


> TOZO T9S 2022 Version​https://www.amazon.com/TOZO-T9S-Environmental-Canceling-Call-Waterproof/dp/B09X13L2R2/ref=sr_1_5?crid=39RNDA2SHCAYY&keywords=bluetooth+5.3&qid=1650926312&sprefix=bluetooth+5.3,aps,172&sr=8-5
> 
> I have two pair of Tozo's and the ANC is near non-existent so 50dB (at least it claims) smells like BS (also they are BT 5.2 not BT 5.3 as in title)


Well, you can get 30dB to 35dB with just passive isolation, so it COULD be true(ish)... LOL


Devodonaldson said:


> Pillow test, lol. Seeing as I listen to music via my portable player even as I go to bed, I'm so thankful I sleep flat on my back, no pillow, hands by my side. Whether iem or headphones,  I never ha e to be concerned with "sleeping comfort" as position doesn't come into play with me.


What are you a vampire?


----------



## tiagopinto (Apr 26, 2022)

Flossy has a review up on the MTW3. Discarding his usual “show”, Sennheiser just might have a good thing here and much cheaper than B&O, B&W, Devialet or Noble.
I’m with @C_Lindbergh here. I would not invest more than 250 on a TWS. Not until LC3 at least. And even then...
But, to be honest, if I had funds to spare, I’d pull a few more triggers. Maybe like on the MTW3.


----------



## erockg

Earin.com is having a sale.  Blowing out the A-3 for $99 with the code VIPSALE.  Not the best of the tiny buds, but for $99, definitely worth a look IMO.  I may revisit for a pair to leave at the office.


----------



## Tenlow

tiagopinto said:


> Flossy has a review up on the MTW3. Discarding his usual “show”, Sennheiser just might have a good thing here and much cheaper than B&O, B&W, Devialet or Noble.
> I’m with @C_Lindbergh here. I would not invest more than 250 on a TWS. Not until LC3 at least. And even then...
> But, to be honest, if I had funds to spare, I’d pull a few more triggers. Maybe like on the MTW3.


Well Devialet has lowered the price to 229 in the meantime. So, the MTW3 are not cheaper than the Gemini (anymore). But yeah, they might be interesting when compared to the new B&O EX for example. Will they be able to compete at 150€ less? That would be nice  I have both on pre-order


----------



## Surf Monkey (Apr 26, 2022)

Edit: moved to appropriate thread. My mistake.


----------



## samandhi

Surf Monkey said:


> Anyone have a Hifiman Bluemini R2R they want to dump? I landed a pair of the Deva Pros in the wired configuration and Hifiman wants $200 for the stand alone unit. Steep considering the bundle price.


Maybe try asking over on the Hifiman Deva Official Thread?!


----------



## jant71 (Apr 26, 2022)

Okay AT's first 9 series photos(wish they were a bit better but...)


















Manual up now... https://fcc.report/FCC-ID/JFZTWX9R/5487035

We have nano UV sterilization on this one. We have Qi charging - first time for AT. Ear detection which can be disabled if you want. Quick hear-through and regular hear-through still the same - volume reduction or not, your choice, but not auto pause. Detects ambient sounds and adjusts ANC. Speech recognition feature. Claiming a wide 10-47,000 with Snapdragon sound. Small - only 60 grams with the case and 5.4 each side but that means smaller batteries it seems. 6 hours and 18.5 with the case. I'd say they were tested on both BT Classic and BLE so they will probably be firmware upgraded for the new BT after a while. Is there a decent amp chip in these?? Maybe - my Sport90BT has one and sounds good even though I only get SBC and AAC. Have to see the TWX9 box cause it only says it there "driver and built in amp for high fidelity sound" ?


----------



## Ceeluh7

BooleanBones said:


> I really like them a lot. It's amazing what they have done with that small configuration. They have sounded great so far and I have used them primarily wired, but started comparing the SQ with the adapters the last few days. The adapters make them a bit warmer I guess would be the best description, but they still sound awesome. I have yet to try them with the balanced cable due to some source issues on my end, but supposedly it's a different experience altogether (in a good way).


Ya I have heard way too many good things about this set. Great that you have them. I tend to always go balanced if I can because all my sources have the balanced side with way more power which... 9 out 10 times opens up my iems. It's great that these sound good with the utws5 as the 5 is already hinting warm of neutral and typically sennheiser is more organic and warm. Very cool. I think I may pick these up soon. So do you also have the Ie300 or did I remember that wrong?


----------



## Surf Monkey (Apr 26, 2022)

samandhi said:


> Maybe try asking over on the Hifiman Deva Official Thread?!



Fair point. I forgot I was in the portable forum. Sorry,


----------



## BooleanBones

Ceeluh7 said:


> Ya I have heard way too many good things about this set. Great that you have them. I tend to always go balanced if I can because all my sources have the balanced side with way more power which... 9 out 10 times opens up my iems. It's great that these sound good with the utws5 as the 5 is already hinting warm of neutral and typically sennheiser is more organic and warm. Very cool. I think I may pick these up soon. So do you also have the Ie300 or did I remember that wrong?


Yep, I have the 300s too. The 600s resolve any shortcomings you may hear in the 300s. I do like the 300s too, but they don't hold a candle to the 600s for sure. Not sure I have put them in my ears since the 600s arrived


----------



## samandhi

Surf Monkey said:


> Fair point. I forgot I was in the portable forum. Sorry,


No apology necessary, just thought you might get more response over there...


----------



## jant71

BooleanBones said:


> Yep, I have the 300s too. The 600s resolve any shortcomings you may hear in the 300s. I do like the 300s too, but they don't hold a candle to the 600s for sure. Not sure I have put them in my ears since the 600s arrived


The IE900 people won't come to grips that the 600 is just as good.


----------



## BooleanBones

jant71 said:


> The IE900 people won't come to grips that the 600 is just as good.


Sennheiser made my 600 decision very easy when they jacked up the price of the 900s by 200+. Very happy that I decided to go with the 600s now and no real desire to spend the extra for the 900s


----------



## Not so fat head

Caipirina said:


> You know what, YOU bringing those up again made me look around the current amazon marketplace situation, and besides that one egghead whose refurb I had in my basket (and I guess amazon alerts them and then they can raise prices) I found another set Used-Very Good for a mere 55€ .. and it arrived today .. and it looks pristine! the previous owner never bothered to open / try the S / L eartips ... but they forgot to reset the buds, so I had to listen to looking for Shogo's mac, phone / ipad for a long while until i recalled how to reset the list ... now, next I need to test how well the battery still works ... from first hour of listening it seems ok ..   Very happy!


Awesome 😎 
I was just listening to Whole Lotta Love, and floored by the cymbals and high- hat.  Lots of fun in that song..  Good old Zep…


----------



## alleroy

erockg said:


> Earin.com is having a sale.  Blowing out the A-3 for $99 with the code VIPSALE.  Not the best of the tiny buds, but for $99, definitely worth a look IMO.  I may revisit for a pair to leave at the office.


Thanks for reporting. May I ask what "Open audio design" stands for and what are the its differences from "standard" wireless iem?


----------



## jant71

alleroy said:


> Thanks for reporting. May I ask what "Open audio design" stands for and what are the its differences from "standard" wireless iem?


They are like EarPods and don't have any tips that seal out sound so they are open. That gives issue for some since ears are different and they are one size fits all but some better than others.


----------



## bladefd

tiagopinto said:


> \Flossy has a review up on the MTW3. Discarding his usual “show”, Sennheiser just might have a good thing here and much cheaper than B&O, B&W, Devialet or Noble.
> I’m with @C_Lindbergh here. I would not invest more than 250 on a TWS. Not until LC3 at least. And even then...
> But, to be honest, if I had funds to spare, I’d pull a few more triggers. Maybe like on the MTW3.


The thing with Flossy is he only focuses on one single genre, and bass only. His playlist is pretty much only rap, and his idea of sound quality is how powerful the bass is - it's too limited to take him very seriously. I need to see more comparisons and different genres/EQ.


----------



## VICosPhi

I have been all hyped up for MTW3 but after listening to the microphone, and the reviewer's comparison with AZ60 I can't believe this but I am gonna skip MTW3. The looks are also plain and not nice like MTW2 imo. 

Next I guess Beoplay EX look interesting and I hope they implement a "Mute" button for phone calls if they went all the way to include stems for better microphone....


----------



## jant71

Saw that they put up internal photos of the AT TWX9 and the parts do say CKR90TW on them(guess that was the original name).  They thankfully took down some of those blah external pics and put up a couple better ones...


----------



## erockg

VICosPhi said:


> I have been all hyped up for MTW3 but after listening to the microphone, and the reviewer's comparison with AZ60 I can't believe this but I am gonna skip MTW3. The looks are also plain and not nice like MTW2 imo.
> 
> Next I guess Beoplay EX look interesting and I hope they implement a "Mute" button for phone calls if they went all the way to include stems for better microphone....


I have the EQ, will get the EX and the MTW3.  That said, I love my EQ.  Had the AZ60 twice but very much prefer the former.  Something about the way B&O tunes is euphoric to my ears.


----------



## Ceeluh7

jant71 said:


> The IE900 people won't come to grips that the 600 is just as good.


This is Def what is going around. Many reviewers do tend to prefer the 600's


----------



## Ceeluh7

bladefd said:


> The thing with Flossy is he only focuses on one single genre, and bass only. His playlist is pretty much only rap, and his idea of sound quality is how powerful the bass is - it's too limited to take him very seriously. I need to see more comparisons and different genres/EQ.


I have never taken that dude too seriously. I'm sure he's a decent person and I don't like piling on anyone but he isn't exactly the last word in audio. He's entertaining for sure. You are right he is into rap/R&B and that's about it it seems, but even with those genres some of the recommended sets he's propped up don't even replay those genres well. I think it's L-shaped beefed up low end, big bass and that's about it. I could be wrong as I haven't watched his stuff in a bit but... There are better actual audio review channels


----------



## erockg

BigZ12 said:


> What do you think of the mics with the latest update?
> 
> (Nice to see my ears actually heard the same differences as yours  )


Whelp, you're right.  I picked up the MW08 Sport from Costco US again before the sale ended.  M&W fixed the mic issue and they sound great.  Did the old voice recording test and they're fixed   Happy to be back.  Looking forward to putting them through their tests the next few days.  Woo hoo!


----------



## erockg

Ceeluh7 said:


> I have never taken that dude too seriously. I'm sure he's a decent person and I don't like piling on anyone but he isn't exactly the last word in audio. He's entertaining for sure. You are right he is into rap/R&B and that's about it it seems, but even with those genres some of the recommended sets he's propped up don't even replay those genres well. I think it's L-shaped beefed up low end, big bass and that's about it. I could be wrong as I haven't watched his stuff in a bit but... There are better actual audio review channels


Nah, me neither.  I think you and I touched on this ages ago.  Take what everyone says and use that accordingly.  Opinions are like... well, you know.  I didn't like the tuning of the MTW2, so I'm hoping the 3 are a step up.  If not, sayonara.  In Flossy's world, everything seems to be a major major major go.  But he was right on the B&O EQ in my world, so there's that.


----------



## jant71

erockg said:


> Nah, me neither.  I think you and I touched on this ages ago.


We covered this. It isn't so much what Flossy says. It is more what White Shoes says! Can always count on him for the real deal.


----------



## erockg

jant71 said:


> We covered this. It isn't so much what Flossy says. It is more what White Shoes says! Can always count on him for the real deal.


I mean, he is a pretty cute cat.  What's not to like?  I'm well versed in the White Shoes song as it's a Pete the Cat staple for my kid here at the house.


----------



## VICosPhi

erockg said:


> I have the EQ, will get the EX and the MTW3.  That said, I love my EQ.  Had the AZ60 twice but very much prefer the former.  Something about the way B&O tunes is euphoric to my ears.


I loved the EQ sound too, but the damn EQs had QA issues, left earbud would stop playing music randomly. Happened twice, two different pairs! I heard they finally added track skip shortcuts so that's good. 

Loving the Technics AZ60. These are the most well rounded TWS imo. I have always been a Technics fan too from their old days so nice to see the brand making a comeback. I will definitely give EX a try. MTW3 I am gonna skip for sure.

BTW, I use Beoplay H95 when home and this thing works great for calls and sound is so flat and natural I love it. It is a bit heavy though so headband causes headache after long use.


----------



## Juturna (Apr 27, 2022)

I'm curious to hear user reviews regarding the new Sennheiser MTW3's, so far I'm not really seeing anything that makes me want to grab them over anything else.
I mean it might be an improvement over the MTW3's, and it seems like it sounds good based on all impressions and reviews I've seen, but I don't see anything that makes me think they're a worthy upgrade from anything I currently have. I was hoping for something slightly more impressive.


I mean sure, as many other people here I might buy them anyway just because I'm a TWS-addict, but that's a completely different story.
Right now though, I'm not sure if I believe the hype even if I think they might be a good buy for anyone in the market for a new pair because their old pair broke or they currently own a budget pair of skullcandy earbuds or something, because the price is somewhat attractive for what they are, I'd say. 
I'm probably looking elsewhere if I'm getting a new pair, I want something that makes my Technics AZ60, Galaxy Bud Pros sound like junk (okay, not junk but... you get what I mean), that I can stick with until the next best thing comes out. 

I mean, I wasn't expecting the MTW3 to challenge the Fokus Pros, but I want more brands to really push bluetooth sound forward even in the mainstream so we can get something that's not far from the Fokus Pro but at a cheaper price and more easily accessible in all markets because it's a more well-known brand (that's not just known among audiophiles)...


----------



## Ceeluh7

erockg said:


> Nah, me neither.  I think you and I touched on this ages ago.  Take what everyone says and use that accordingly.  Opinions are like... well, you know.  I didn't like the tuning of the MTW2, so I'm hoping the 3 are a step up.  If not, sayonara.  In Flossy's world, everything seems to be a major major major go.  But he was right on the B&O EQ in my world, so there's that.


Ya that's right.


----------



## Juturna (Apr 27, 2022)

Question:
Is there any combination of the KZ AZ09 or AZ09 Pro and any combination with earbuds that fit with those adapters that will sound obviously "better" than anything I would get from my regular TWS's? Trying to see if it's worth to try out the adapter game but starting cheap-ish in that case...

Also, is there a list available anywhere where you can see which models actually fit the AZ09's? I know KZ has one, but I feel like they're omitting some earbuds that actually work perfectly fine.


----------



## pitch_black

erockg said:


> Right there with you.  I'll have them both in May.  That's what we do.



My local B&O dealer has them already in stock (4 pieces) at the moment, but I spend the last of my funny money on a second (black) EQ a few weeks ago


----------



## BooleanBones

pitch_black said:


> My local B&O dealer has them already in stock (4 pieces) at the moment, but I spend the last of my funny money on a second (black) EQ a few weeks ago


I just ordered the black/aqua from B&O direct.


----------



## pitch_black

VICosPhi said:


> I loved the EQ sound too, but the damn EQs had QA issues, left earbud would stop playing music randomly. Happened twice, two different pairs! I heard they finally added track skip shortcuts so that's good.
> 
> Loving the Technics AZ60. These are the most well rounded TWS imo. I have always been a Technics fan too from their old days so nice to see the brand making a comeback. I will definitely give EX a try. MTW3 I am gonna skip for sure.
> 
> BTW, I use Beoplay H95 when home and this thing works great for calls and sound is so flat and natural I love it. It is a bit heavy though so headband causes headache after long use.



I own the H95 as well.... unfortuantly back in september when my only pair of EQ did break on this greek island (while having holidays) I did not have the H95 with me.
But after my return and the RMA of the EQ I could enjoy a similar sound experience with the H95. If I had known just a few days earlier an EX was coming out so soon I would have waited a little longer with the second EQ - I know first world problems....


----------



## erockg

BooleanBones said:


> I just ordered the black/aqua from B&O direct.


Same!


----------



## erockg

pitch_black said:


> My local B&O dealer has them already in stock (4 pieces) at the moment, but I spend the last of my funny money on a second (black) EQ a few weeks ago


I'm rotating a few TWS out on eBay and ordered my EX.


----------



## BooleanBones

erockg said:


> I'm rotating a few TWS out on eBay and ordered my EX.


I will be doing the same this weekend. Got some overstock nowadays collecting dust.


----------



## pitch_black

erockg said:


> I'm rotating a few TWS out on eBay and ordered my EX.



I guess I could sell the sand EQ now with the EX as my reserve TWS on the horizon....


----------



## erockg

pitch_black said:


> I guess I could sell the sand EQ now with the EX as my reserve TWS on the horizon....


You'll have to pry my EQ from my cold dead hands.  Love them too much to let them go right now.  But if the EX leads the pack in my rotation, you just never know


----------



## tonyfiore75 (Apr 27, 2022)

erockg said:


> You'll have to pry my EQ from my cold dead hands.  Love them too much to let them go right now.  But if the EX leads the pack in my rotation, you just never know


What is your official rotation right now? Enquiring minds want to know.

When it comes to TW, I'm a novice. But my roll call is currently:
- Technics AZ60
- AKG N400
- Sennheiser MTW3 (pre-ordered)

- B&O EQ (returned due to noise issues)
- M&D MW08 (returned)
- Sony 1000XM3 (gave away)


----------



## erockg

tonyfiore75 said:


> What is your official rotation right now? Enquiring minds want to know.
> 
> When it comes to TW, I'm a novice. But my roll call is currently:
> - Technics AZ60
> ...


This week, or all time?  Ha ha!

Not necessarily in this order, but: Noble Audio Fokus Pro, B&O Beoplay EQ, M&D MW08 Sport, Thieaudio Monarch MK2 on the FiiO UTWS5 adapters, SeeAudio Midnight on the Shure TW2 adapter, Shure Aonic Free, LG Tone Free FP8, Sony Linkbuds, Black Colorware Apple AirPods Pro, B&W PI7, AirPods Max.  My list will be dwindling soon to add the new breeds.


----------



## clerkpalmer

EX available to order on B&Os site for those willing to splurge.


----------



## tonyfiore75

erockg said:


> This week, or all time?  Ha ha!
> 
> Not necessarily in this order, but: Noble Audio Fokus Pro, B&O Beoplay EQ, M&D MW08 Sport, Thieaudio Monarch MK2 on the FiiO UTWS5 adapters, SeeAudio Midnight on the Shure TW2 adapter, Shure Aonic Free, LG Tone Free FP8, Sony Linkbuds, Black Colorware Apple AirPods Pro, B&W PI7, AirPods Max.  My list will be dwindling soon to add the new breeds.


I would be interested to know (as I'm sure others would) as to which you plan on keeping and which you plan on selling. Also, maybe how you rank what you have?


----------



## pitch_black

erockg said:


> You'll have to pry my EQ from my cold dead hands.  Love them too much to let them go right now.  But if the EX leads the pack in my rotation, you just never know



I have two of them. The frist in sand which was broken then replaced last year with a brand new one after RMA and a black one I got with a pretty good discount a few weeks ago. So I'm sure keeping the black one which I use most of the time now. It makes much more sense to have an EQ and an EX as a reserve then having two EQ - especially if the EX turns out to be an equally good as the EQ.


----------



## tinyman392

I saw the B&W PI7 was 300 bucks so I decided to give them a try.  B&W has always been hit or miss with me though.  Some of their models being great while others not so much.


----------



## clerkpalmer

clerkpalmer said:


> EX available to order on B&Os site for those willing to splurge.


Looks like I was late to the party. You guys are truly impressive. Anyone get a shipment notification?


----------



## clerkpalmer

pitch_black said:


> My local B&O dealer has them already in stock (4 pieces) at the moment, but I spend the last of my funny money on a second (black) EQ a few weeks ago


There’s always another $400 in funny money if you look hard enough. What’s a few points on your credit score anyway?


----------



## erockg

Klipsch just dropped the price on the McLaren version of the T5II ANC for those who might be interested:  https://www.amazon.com/Klipsch-T5-A...lja1JlZGlyZWN0JmRvTm90TG9nQ2xpY2s9dHJ1ZQ&th=1


----------



## dj24 (Apr 27, 2022)

I've been noticing for a while now that the gap between well established names and chi-fi has at least discussion wise here in this forum tilted in one direction.  Is it because chi-fi has stagnated when it comes SQ and other features or have the well established brands really taken a leap to differentiate themselves from their brethren and therefore are getting much of the attention.


----------



## erockg

clerkpalmer said:


> Looks like I was late to the party. You guys are truly impressive. Anyone get a shipment notification?


Yep.  Just got UPS notification for overnight shipping.


----------



## jant71 (Apr 27, 2022)

dj24 said:


> I've been noticing for a while now that the gap between well established names and chi-fi has at least discussion wise here in this forum tilted in one direction.  Is it because chi-fi has stagnated when it comes SQ and other features or have the well established brands really taken a leap to differentiate themselves from their brethren and therefore are getting much of the attention.


You sure you got the right thread? TWS for Chi-fi has never been much to talk about at all. Only the adapters really.


----------



## BooleanBones

tonyfiore75 said:


> I would be interested to know (as I'm sure others would) as to which you plan on keeping and which you plan on selling. Also, maybe how you rank what you have?


Personally, I will be keeping my Fokus Pro, XM4s, and AKG N400s (yardwork). Might keep my AZ60s too, but that will be a future decision. What am I saying, everything is for sale for the right price


----------



## erockg

BooleanBones said:


> Personally, I will be keeping my Fokus Pro, XM4s, and AKG N400s (yardwork). Might keep my AZ60s too, but that will be a future decision. What am I saying, everything is for sale for the right price


Even @BooleanBones.  For the right price, he's yours!


----------



## tonyfiore75

BooleanBones said:


> Personally, I will be keeping my Fokus Pro, XM4s, and AKG N400s (yardwork). Might keep my AZ60s too, but that will be a future decision. What am I saying, everything is for sale for the right price


I'm keeping my AZ60s and N400s as well. When the Senns arrive I guess I'll see if they're worth keeping. My fear is that I'll just keep all of them and then some will never get used. And by the time I say, "Heeeey, I haven't been using these", something better will come out and I'll want to buy those, haha. Since the technology is getting drastically better each year, it's a lot more tempting to upgrade. It's kind of like having a smartphone in 2012 vs now. Back then there was a big difference from year to year with new models. Now? I feel like they're all the same for the most part. They've leveled off a bit. I'm kinda waiting to see when that will happen with the true wireless stuff.


----------



## BooleanBones

tonyfiore75 said:


> I'm keeping my AZ60s and N400s as well. When the Senns arrive I guess I'll see if they're worth keeping. My fear is that I'll just keep all of them and then some will never get used. And by the time I say, "Heeeey, I haven't been using these", something better will come out and I'll want to buy those, haha. Since the technology is getting drastically better each year, it's a lot more tempting to upgrade. It's kind of like having a smartphone in 2012 vs now. Back then there was a big difference from year to year with new models. Now? I feel like they're all the same for the most part. They've leveled off a bit. I'm kinda waiting to see when that will happen with the true wireless stuff.


Feel your pain. I am eager to see how you guys like the Sennies. Curious how well they have the 7mm drivers tuned in them. They have done really well with them in the IE series IEMs out now.


----------



## LordToneeus

Juturna said:


> Question:
> Is there any combination of the KZ AZ09 or AZ09 Pro and any combination with earbuds that fit with those adapters that will sound obviously "better" than anything I would get from my regular TWS's? Trying to see if it's worth to try out the adapter game but starting cheap-ish in that case...
> 
> Also, is there a list available anywhere where you can see which models actually fit the AZ09's? I know KZ has one, but I feel like they're omitting some earbuds that actually work perfectly fine.


I use the KZ Zax and KZ Crinacle collab on my AZ09 Pro and AZ09 respectively, and I adore both combos. For out and about and phone calls I switch between Melomania Touch and Beats Fit Pro.


----------



## LordToneeus

jant71 said:


> You sure you got the right thread? TWS for Chi-fi has never been much to talk about at all. Only the adapters really.


Au contraire. A couple years back we were all hunting for the chi fi TWS diamonds in the rough. MPOW? Bomaker Sif? The spaceship shaped model (never got my hands on them, but they were hella popular)? Fiil?


----------



## clerkpalmer

erockg said:


> Yep.  Just got UPS notification for overnight shipping.


Me too. Gotta give B&O props for springing for overnight. That’s how you launch a premium priced product!


----------



## BooleanBones

clerkpalmer said:


> Me too. Gotta give B&O props for springing for overnight. That’s how you launch a premium priced product!


cries a little. nothing in my inbox yet


----------



## clerkpalmer

BooleanBones said:


> cries a little. nothing in my inbox yet


It’s coming. Mine just arrived. Just cross your fingers it’s not smart post …


----------



## erockg

BooleanBones said:


> cries a little. nothing in my inbox yet


Thumbs down?


----------



## Not so fat head

Just FYi to all

At Best Buy..

Bowers and Wilkins..

PI7. $299
PI5. $199


----------



## BooleanBones

erockg said:


> Thumbs down?


Probably payback for sending an order back in the past  They put me on the "last in line" list


----------



## BooleanBones

For the fans of guitar solos, Tim Reynolds tears it up in this live performance with Dave Matthews. It’s magical on my IEs


----------



## Caipirina

alleroy said:


> Have you bought then eventually? Recently there has been a significant drop in prices in EU too (maybe because of the announcement of the forthcoming Evo), so I am again wondering if I should give the Mini a chance...


received them and on very first listen / fit I am quite happy .. did that Sound ID thing and I think it helps a bit? Like for ppl who are not great with EQ curves   The ANC in strong has a bit of noticable white noise, which I really don't mind  and it appears I can side sleep with them, they are of course a tad bigger than the Comfobuds Z. but not much ... I think I will use those more than my pistonbuds pro or the Soundpeats mini pro ...


----------



## BigZ12

erockg said:


> Klipsch just dropped the price on the McLaren version of the T5II ANC for those who might be interested:  https://www.amazon.com/Klipsch-T5-ANC-True-Wireless/dp/B08PG4LMPW/ref=sr_1_20_sspa?crid=2JQMXMG66H9AV&keywords=sennheiser+ie+600&qid=1651084134&sprefix=sennheiser%20ie%20600,aps,124&sr=8-20-spons&spLa=ZW5jcnlwdGVkUXVhbGlmaWVyPUE4SVBDRlEwVzVEQlAmZW5jcnlwdGVkSWQ9QTA3NjY4MzIyWE81WTlIT0NMVExEJmVuY3J5cHRlZEFkSWQ9QTAxMDQzMjEyN0lYWlQ1V1pINjg1JndpZGdldE5hbWU9c3BfYnRmJmFjdGlvbj1jbGlja1JlZGlyZWN0JmRvTm90TG9nQ2xpY2s9dHJ1ZQ&th=1


I would buy these for that price, but of course.... no shipment to No way Norway... 
Here I have to pay $495....

Are they any good, btw? Very few mentions in here.


----------



## Devodonaldson

erockg said:


> This week, or all time?  Ha ha!
> 
> Not necessarily in this order, but: Noble Audio Fokus Pro, B&O Beoplay EQ, M&D MW08 Sport, Thieaudio Monarch MK2 on the FiiO UTWS5 adapters, SeeAudio Midnight on the Shure TW2 adapter, Shure Aonic Free, LG Tone Free FP8, Sony Linkbuds, Black Colorware Apple AirPods Pro, B&W PI7, AirPods Max.  My list will be dwindling soon to add the new breeds.


Wow...Noble Fokus Pro (overall, hip-hop, R&B) Noble Falcon Pro (Classical, instrumental Jazz, Sony xm4 (everything headed to bed/sleeping in), Sony linkbuds w/bass +10 (jazz, podcasts, audiobooks) Galaxy Buds live (workouts), Galaxy Buds Pro (gaming/watching video on my Samsung phone)


----------



## alsorkin (Apr 29, 2022)

starfly said:


> Anyone suspect the coming Sennheiser Momentum TWS 3 will be any good?
> 
> Recently got the XM4, but unsure about the fit (hurts cartilage in my ears during extended wear, which can be somewhat alleviated by twisting forward slightly, but then they really stick out).
> 
> ...


I see that the TWS 3 had the Snapdragon Sound codec and extended Bluetooth range.


----------



## tiagopinto

bladefd said:


> The thing with Flossy is he only focuses on one single genre, and bass only. His playlist is pretty much only rap, and his idea of sound quality is how powerful the bass is - it's too limited to take him very seriously. I need to see more comparisons and different genres/EQ.



You’re absolutely right. That’s why I said “discarding his usual “show””. I got tired of his reviews because there was too much “max bass” and no details on SQ. Too much show, not much juice. Even that custom EQ he proposes “out of a whim” is outright ridiculous. I also hate that he has no respect for the unboxing process. He shouldn’t do it if he doesn’t like it. It’s annoying, at least for me, watching him rip open the fins box without even trying to open it gently. 

On the other hand, he’s very thorough on practicalities. And he does seem to end up ranking them correctly, at least in line with many opinions here. 

In the end, he’s got a review formula which maybe is working for him, mostly because of said “show”, oriented at the not so discerning audiophile, which are the vast majority of consumers. 

We are a niche. We want the frequency response details, the imaging details, all the synergy details. Flossy Carter’s not gonna give you that. 

Still curious about the MTW3 though.


----------



## tiagopinto

Ceeluh7 said:


> I have never taken that dude too seriously. I'm sure he's a decent person and I don't like piling on anyone but he isn't exactly the last word in audio. He's entertaining for sure. You are right he is into rap/R&B and that's about it it seems, but even with those genres some of the recommended sets he's propped up don't even replay those genres well. I think it's L-shaped beefed up low end, big bass and that's about it. I could be wrong as I haven't watched his stuff in a bit but... There are better actual audio review channels



Totally agree.


----------



## jant71

Radius coming with another model at around $119 range. Has coaxial dual 8.8mm driver set up and LDAC. https://www.radius.co.jp/products/hp-r300bt/


----------



## jant71 (Apr 28, 2022)

LordToneeus said:


> Au contraire. A couple years back we were all hunting for the chi fi TWS diamonds in the rough. MPOW? Bomaker Sif? The spaceship shaped model (never got my hands on them, but they were hella popular)? Fiil?


 Well the original comment was asking if mainstream brands have jumped ahead recently so we talk about them most. I still stand by that the mainstream brands have been ahead and have never been caught. When erockg has FiiL, Bowmaker and Sabbat instead of B&O, Technics, Sony, and Noble I will start to say they they have caught up. But it is certainly not that the mainstream brands have jumped ahead in a tight race. Not sure where they got that impression. Most talk is about the big models and big names. FiiL has a new out but outside of my posting a video about it the EX and MTW3 are the entire conversation atm.


----------



## erockg

jant71 said:


> Well the original comment was asking if mainstream brands have jumped ahead recently so we talk about them most. I still stand by that the mainstream brands have been ahead and have never been caught. When erockg has FiiL, Bowmaker and Sabbat instead of B&O, Technics, Sony, and Noble I will start to say they they have caught up. But it is certainly not that the mainstream brands have jumped ahead in a tight race. Not sure where they got that impression. Most talk is about the big models and big names. FiiL has a new out but outside of my posting a video about it the EX and MTW3 are the entire conversation atm.


Don't drag me into this LOL.  I only buy chi-fi IEMs.  Nothing the best here for TWS.  Spare no expense.  Although, I did almost buy some of those cheap Soundpeats to leave in my desk at work because one day I forgot to bring my headphones and forced myself to drive home to get them.  Had my finger on the "buy now" button and said I just can't.  I'll just never forget them again.


----------



## Sam L

james444 said:


> Oppo Enco Air 2 sound pretty amazing, except for a 8kHz spike that needs EQ. Good detail resolution, tight bass. Better than Fiil CC imo.
> Also, these sound very good for the asking price: https://www.amazon.co.jp/gp/product/B09M3MK1QG/?th=1 and don't need EQ. Easily the best semi in-ears in terms of sound quality for money that I've tried. Connection stability outside the house is a tad wonky though, due to short stems.



finally got the Oppo Enco Air 2 in last week... takes a while since they come from Japan. 

Agreed, sound better than the Fiil CC and excellent SQ for the money. I don't hear that 8khz spike, but then I'm at an age where I don't hear anything in that region very easily anymore =(

A couple cons:
- these things are tiny and it's easy to trigger the touch controls when handling them. too easy to trigger, actually
- the mics for phone calls are pretty bad, but then that wasn't a real requirement on my end. FYI for anyone considering the Oppo Enco Air 2.

on another note, the freebuds 3 have exceptional mics, pretty darn close to apple airpods. But the fit on the freebuds are pretty poor. Geez, you just can't win in this game and so the hunt goes on... and on... and on...


----------



## Sam L

BooleanBones said:


> Yep, I have the 300s too. The 600s resolve any shortcomings you may hear in the 300s. I do like the 300s too, but they don't hold a candle to the 600s for sure. Not sure I have put them in my ears since the 600s arrived


I'm waiting eagerly for the 600's to hit the us market. I wasn't expecting much from the ie300, so when I got them, I was pleasantly surprised -- excellent iems.



jant71 said:


> The IE900 people won't come to grips that the 600 is just as good.


so much hype concerning the ie600. I hope I don't get disappointed.


----------



## erockg

Well, well.  Look what the cat dragged in.  It's going to be a fun morning.


----------



## BooleanBones

erockg said:


> Well, well.  Look what the cat dragged in.  It's going to be a fun morning.


Nice, I haven't even got my shipping mail. lol


----------



## jant71 (Apr 28, 2022)

erockg said:


> Well, well.  Look what the cat dragged in.  It's going to be a fun morning.


You couldn't peel those stickers off??...and buy a Mifo or something and show Chi-Fi some love.


----------



## erockg

BooleanBones said:


> Nice, I haven't even got my shipping mail. lol


That's so odd.  Mine came maybe two hours after I ordered them.  Maybe it'll show up unannounced.  UPS Next Day for me.


----------



## BooleanBones

Sam L said:


> I'm waiting eagerly for the 600's to hit the us market. I wasn't expecting much from the ie300, so when I got them, I was pleasantly surprised -- excellent iems.
> 
> 
> so much hype concerning the ie600. I hope I don't get disappointed.


I think you will be very happy if you even remotely like the 300s. I haven't hardly gotten mine out of the case since getting the 600s. you may have some playing to do with tips of course (like the 300s)


----------



## Tenlow

erockg said:


> Well, well.  Look what the cat dragged in.  It's going to be a fun morning.


Please tell me that they're bad, will ya? 😂


----------



## BooleanBones

erockg said:


> That's so odd.  Mine came maybe two hours after I ordered them.  Maybe it'll show up unannounced.  UPS Next Day for me.


I'm telling ya, I am on their crap list I think.


----------



## erockg

jant71 said:


> You couldn't peel those stickers off??...and buy a Mifo or something and show Chi-Fi some love.


They're off now!  Everyone relax.  I'm already doing a firmware update.  They changed, yet again, how you update.  Put the buds in the case, open/close the lid, start update.  I mean come on, what ever happened to just a 'click here' method.  Blah!  Real world problems.


----------



## jant71 (Apr 28, 2022)

erockg said:


> They're off now!  Everyone relax.  I'm already doing a firmware update.  They changed, yet again, how you update.  Put the buds in the case, open/close the lid, start update.  I mean come on, what ever happened to just a 'click here' method.  Blah!  Real world problems.


FW update? For $400 they should not be releasing an unfinished product. Demand a partial refund!


----------



## bladefd

The stems look bit annoying on the EX. For $400 (+tax), I would expect there would be no stem. Just my opinion!


----------



## erockg

bladefd said:


> The stems look bit annoying on the EX. For $400 (+tax), I would expect there would be no stem. Just my opinion!


I hate stems too, but I have to say, they're very comfortable.


----------



## BooleanBones

erockg said:


> I hate stems too, but I have to say, they're very comfortable.


Looking forward to the mic feedback on these during your calls.


----------



## jant71 (Apr 28, 2022)

bladefd said:


> The stems look bit annoying on the EX. For $400 (+tax), I would expect there would be no stem. Just my opinion!


I would expect them to go stem to get the mics in a better position than spending time and money into getting mics up in the ear to work better. With a stem getting the mics down out of the way of the ear parts and slightly closer to the mouth is the sure way to get a better performance and saves money. Of course they are probably not passing any savings on to the consumer. Would be nicer if they were $300.


----------



## erockg

jant71 said:


> I would expect them to go stem to get the mics in a better position than spending time and money into getting mics up in the ear to work better. With a stem getting the mics down out of the way of the ear parts and slightly closer to the mouth is the sure way to get a better performance and saves money. Of course they are probably not passing any savings on to the consumer. Would be nice if they were $300.


They'll be $300 in a year or so.  The waiting is the hardest part.


----------



## ilatimer1

Just got my Beoplay EX as well. Took like 3 tries to do the firmware update, but that's my bad an I didn't follow directions. So far I love them. To me they fit much better than the EQs. I did have to go up to the large tips to get a good seal.


----------



## erockg

ilatimer1 said:


> Just got my Beoplay EX as well. Took like 3 tries to do the firmware update, but that's my bad an I didn't follow directions. So far I love them. To me they fit much better than the EQs. I did have to go up to the large tips to get a good seal.


Same for me on all the above.  I'm on a call now and have zero issues.  Person on the other end hears me loud and very clear.  Sadly, I haven't listened to music yet.


----------



## clerkpalmer

erockg said:


> Sadly, I haven't listened to music yet.


Initial reaction based on some music samples:  smooth AF.  The B&O house sound is quickly becoming my favorite.  Not audiophile tuned but not consumer tuned either.  Something in the middle with some warmth.  They sound virtually the same to me as the EQ which is about as good as TWS gets outside of an IEM adapter set up.  Fit is fantastic for me using installed M tips. No issues with the stems - they are there for a reason.  Definitely enjoying shiny new (expensive) toy day.  If they can deliver on zoom calls, they will be worth the price.


----------



## erockg

clerkpalmer said:


> Initial reaction based on some music samples:  smooth AF.  The B&O house sound is quickly becoming my favorite.  Not audiophile tuned but not consumer tuned either.  Something in the middle with some warmth.  They sound virtually the same to me as the EQ which is about as good as TWS gets outside of an IEM adapter set up.  Fit is fantastic for me using installed M tips. No issues with the stems - they are there for a reason.  Definitely enjoying shiny new (expensive) toy day.  If they can deliver on zoom calls, they will be worth the price.


Dude, wow, I actually think they sound better than the EQ.  Maybe even a tick louder.  I'll have to do some deep comparing and contrasting soon. 

This song sound so great:


----------



## erockg

jant71 said:


> FW update? For $400 they should not be releasing an unfinished product. Demand a partial refund!


Nah, better that they do it than not.  At least they're addressing stuff fast.  Not like some companies.  Uh, Devialet, M&W and others.  That said, these things sound absolutely amazing.  You can definitely hear a difference with the bigger driver.  Soundstage sounds a little wider to me.  On a honeymoon phase right now, but all I can do is enjoy the ride.


----------



## erockg

erockg said:


> Nah, better that they do it than not.  At least they're addressing stuff fast.  Not like some companies.  Uh, Devialet, M&W and others.  That said, these things sound absolutely amazing.  You can definitely hear a difference with the bigger driver.  Soundstage sounds a little wider to me.  On a honeymoon phase right now, but all I can do is enjoy the ride.


Actually, I wonder if the immediate firmware update was needed to add multi-pairing?  Because they have it.


----------



## tonyfiore75

You guys are really killing me. The Senns aren't even close to being shipped and now I'm feeling an itch to try these B&Os. Ugh!


----------



## BooleanBones

tonyfiore75 said:


> You guys are really killing me. The Senns aren't even close to being shipped and now I'm feeling an itch to try these B&Os. Ugh!


I feel your pain and I actually ordered them. Even UPS is jacking with me. Stops in front of my house for 5 minutes, comes out with a small box, only to venture across the street to my neighbors. Still excited for the new toy amongst all of my tears.


----------



## nekonhime

tonyfiore75 said:


> You guys are really killing me. The Senns aren't even close to being shipped and now I'm feeling an itch to try these B&Os. Ugh!


Just go for it lol or just like me who wait for the good deal months later


----------



## clerkpalmer

tonyfiore75 said:


> You guys are really killing me. The Senns aren't even close to being shipped and now I'm feeling an itch to try these B&Os. Ugh!


Scratch it brother


----------



## dyh

Can somebody post their thoughts on how the Beoplay EXs compare to the Noble Fokus?


----------



## erockg

BooleanBones said:


> I feel your pain and I actually ordered them. Even UPS is jacking with me. Stops in front of my house for 5 minutes, comes out with a small box, only to venture across the street to my neighbors. Still excited for the new toy amongst all of my tears.


We are nuts.  I sometimes track Amazon and it goes from me being the next stop to suddenly they have a few more deliveries to make.  Loco.


----------



## erockg

tonyfiore75 said:


> You guys are really killing me. The Senns aren't even close to being shipped and now I'm feeling an itch to try these B&Os. Ugh!


Honestly, I have the Sennies on order, but I do have a feeling I'll prefer the tuning of the EX.  Either way, looks like you can't order them on B&Os site for now.  Maybe they're waiting for stock to replenish.  Tried forwarding the link to a friend and no go.


----------



## erockg

Can't recall if anyone posted this so sorry if it's a dupe:


----------



## erockg

dyh said:


> Can somebody post their thoughts on how the Beoplay EXs compare to the Noble Fokus?


I wish I could, but I just flipped my NFPs because a little bird told me a secret.  That said, mic is better on the EX by far.  If you don't mind stems, you can't go wrong with the EX, but the NFP are cheaper without ANC.  EX have multi pairing, Qi charging, decent app IMO.  I'm a big fan of both, but depending on your needs/wants, hard call.  NFP have less features but stellar sound.   EX has a great set of feature and even though I had the NFP, I found myself using my B&O buds more.  Others here may disagree.  They'll sound off I'm sure.


----------



## clerkpalmer

erockg said:


> I wish I could, but I just flipped my NFPs because a little bird told me a secret.


NFKP with ANC is right around the corner?

Boy that's a close call.  Noble has a more audiophile tuning with a stellar EQ that really lets you tailor the sound.  If you lean in the pure audiophile sound only camp, the Noble may have an edge but it's not a big one.  I personally prefer the tuning of the EX stock and don't like monkeying with EQ anyway.  

As far as a total package/everyday TWS that you can use at the gym, on the go, at the office etc., the EX for the win.


----------



## nekonhime

erockg said:


> Can't recall if anyone posted this so sorry if it's a dupe:



Worse than the sony and Samsung, yep, skip


----------



## erockg

nekonhime said:


> Worse than the sony and Samsung, yep, skip


I don't always agree with C so I'll give them a shot and report.


----------



## Ceeluh7

Hey fellas, finally have the review of the Fokus Pros on Mobileaudiophile.com

https://www.mobileaudiophile.com/noble-audio-fokuspro-review/


----------



## Toom

That Crinacle guy is weird.


----------



## nekonhime

erockg said:


> I don't always agree with C so I'll give them a shot and report.


Love you and thanks a lot. I will be waiting, btw how the ex compare to eq in mics, anc and sq?


----------



## erockg

clerkpalmer said:


> NFKP with ANC is right around the corner?
> 
> Boy that's a close call.  Noble has a more audiophile tuning with a stellar EQ that really lets you tailor the sound.  If you lean in the pure audiophile sound only camp, the Noble may have an edge but it's not a big one.  I personally prefer the tuning of the EX stock and don't like monkeying with EQ anyway.
> 
> As far as a total package/everyday TWS that you can use at the gym, on the go, at the office etc., the EX for the win.


I agree with you re: EX.  I'm really having a great time with them today.  I don't have to fiddle with them, twist, push for a fit.  Small thing, but love it.  Also, can't find any bugs yet.


----------



## erockg

Toom said:


> That Crinacle guy is weird.


So am I.


----------



## jant71 (Apr 28, 2022)

BTW,








Spoiler: It's a secret


----------



## nekonhime

jant71 said:


> BTW,
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yes yes yes yes


----------



## dyh (Apr 29, 2022)

Wait, so there's going to be an update to the Noble Fokus? My understanding was that there was going to be a new Falcon ANC coming out, but that the Fokus would still be the best for sound quality.


----------



## jibberish

dj24 said:


> I've been noticing for a while now that the gap between well established names and chi-fi has at least discussion wise here in this forum tilted in one direction.  Is it because chi-fi has stagnated when it comes SQ and other features or have the well established brands really taken a leap to differentiate themselves from their brethren and therefore are getting much of the attention.


In my experience with chi-fi TWS, the lack of multi-language support in the documentation, prompts or phone app can be a barrier to adoption.  I have literally dozens of wired chi-fi IEMs and a chi-fi desktop DAC/AMP so I'm definitely all for the cost benefits that chi-fi gear can provide.  It's more difficult when I can't figure out how to pair/control/eq the TWS set if there's no English language support (from the perspective of an English speaker), or maybe the app isn't available without sideloading, etc.

Also I've had a pretty terrible track record for quality control of TWS sets, chi-fi or not, I've had to send back at least 3 TWS sets that were broken in some capacity on arrival. For TWS chi-fi sets that only ship from Chinese distributors, it's going to be too expensive or too much of a pain in the butt to deal with returns.


----------



## dyh

jant71 said:


> BTW,
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Can anybody confirm that it will take around 6-8 months for the FoKus H-ANC to be released?

I found this publish date of 4-21-22, but there's no estimated release date: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FQ12LeQUUAApWh4?format=jpg&name=medium


----------



## dyh

Also, how loud can the Beoplay EXs go? 

The problem I had with the Beoplay EQs is that they didn't get loud enough.


----------



## erockg

jant71 said:


> BTW,
> 
> 
> 
> ...


It was only a matter of time before you worked your magic.


----------



## erockg (Apr 28, 2022)

The cat is out of the bag:  https://fccid.io/2AT8X-FOKUSH-ANC

Talk about a re-design.  Hmm...  Bottom half of the shell looks like the Bragi Dash Pro, which truly fit me perfect.


----------



## james444

Sam L said:


> finally got the Oppo Enco Air 2 in last week... takes a while since they come from Japan.
> 
> Agreed, sound better than the Fiil CC and excellent SQ for the money. I don't hear that 8khz spike, but then I'm at an age where I don't hear anything in that region very easily anymore =(
> 
> ...



FYI you can configure the touch controls freely with the Oppo HeyMelody app. In fact, the Enco Air 2 are the only TWS earbuds I've found, on which you can turn the touch controls completely off. Which is what I do, because I use the Oppos at night in bed and don't want to trigger anything while lying against a pillow.


----------



## dyh

erockg said:


> The cat is out of the bag:  https://fccid.io/2AT8X-FOKUSH-ANC
> 
> Talk about a re-design.  Hmm...  Bottom half of the shell looks like the Bragi Dash Pro, which truly fit me perfect.


So that FCCID date of 4-21-22 means there's no way they'd be on the market before July, right? 

I'm wondering if these are more like a new Falcon ANC, but with the FoKus name.


----------



## jant71

erockg said:


> The cat is out of the bag:  https://fccid.io/2AT8X-FOKUSH-ANC
> 
> Talk about a re-design.  Hmm...  Bottom half of the shell looks like the Bragi Dash Pro, which truly fit me perfect.


Seems to be the same platform Metalure used but newer internals than that of course since it has been around...


----------



## erockg

dyh said:


> So that FCCID date of 4-21-22 means there's no way they'd be on the market before July, right?
> 
> I'm wondering if these are more like a new Falcon ANC, but with the FoKus name.


It's so hard to say, man.  I mean, look how long ago the Falcon ANC were added to the FCC site.  Sometimes, it's super fast to release, other times, takes forever.  I don't know how the indies function as far as production and distro.  The big guns seem to be fast, although, I remember B&W's TWS were delayed, probably pandemic related.  It's all a crapshoot for us gadget lovers.


----------



## erockg

jant71 said:


> Seems to be the same platform Metalure used but newer internals than that of course since it has been around...


Ah bummer.  Really was hoping they'd keep the NFP IEM-ish design.  Also, I see no mention of Qi.


----------



## bladefd

erockg said:


> The cat is out of the bag:  https://fccid.io/2AT8X-FOKUSH-ANC
> 
> Talk about a re-design.  Hmm...  Bottom half of the shell looks like the Bragi Dash Pro, which truly fit me perfect.


Nice! No stem. I would be curious about the pricing, but that might be months away. Hopefully inside $250. I cannot afford $300 tws.


----------



## clerkpalmer

Nice! No stem. I would be curious about the pricing, but that might be months away. Hopefully inside $250. I cannot afford $300 tws.
no chance. The fokus was 350.


----------



## clerkpalmer

erockg said:


> Honestly, I have the Sennies on order, but I do have a feeling I'll prefer the tuning of the EX.  Either way, looks like you can't order them on B&Os site for now.  Maybe they're waiting for stock to replenish.  Tried forwarding the link to a friend and no go.


Multipoint is the best thing ever. Killer feature.


----------



## samandhi

james444 said:


> In fact, the Enco Air 2 are the only TWS earbuds I've found, on which you can turn the touch controls completely off. Which is what I do, because I use the Oppos at night in bed and don't want to trigger anything while lying against a pillow.


Melomania touch allows this also.


----------



## jant71

erockg said:


> Ah bummer.  Really was hoping they'd keep the NFP IEM-ish design.  Also, I see no mention of Qi.


That had 12 hours per charge with an older BT5.0 chip so there is room in there. Why they wanted it most likely. I'm sure that gives them room for more drivers though they might go with smaller battery. Has to be a hybrid with the foKus name right? They will gain some battery life back with a newer 5.2 more efficient chipset if they need to use smaller batteries to fit multiple drivers. Creative uses it and gets 15 hours with that same 10mm single driver config. and 5.2 in their ANC model.

One thing of concern is this...




Airoha based so no Qualcomm codecs??


----------



## dweaver

OK, so had an unexpected windfall today. My first thought was to go all in and by the Fiio FH9 as an upgrade on my FH5/TWS adapter combo. But I am backing away from the cliff so to speak as this is an $800CAD expense and while I am pretty sure I would be in Nirvana I am not sure I would stay there as long as I would like.

So what I love about the FH5 is the decent sub-bass, linear mid-bass, decent midrange, sparkly yet not to sharp of highs and above all else the wonderful 3D presentation with excellent instrument layering. I also love the fit in ear of the FH5.

So now that I have stated what I love about the IEM adapter combo, let me state what I miss about a straight up true wireless earbud. I prefer to not have to fuss with something around my ear. I prefer having the ability to use ANC when I want, I like better quality ambient mode.

So if do the prudent thing (pay off debt with most of my windfall and spend a smaller portion on a new shiny toy, what should I buy and why?

Out of my current TWS:
Technics AZ60 - struggling with fit as I find it a bit uncomfortable in comparison to FH5. Default sound is a bit to mid-bass oriented so I find I have to EQ to get it to where I like sound wise. 3D sound is just OK, instrument layering is slightly above average. ANC is the best of the TWS I own.

Technics AZ70 - actually more comfortable in my ear than AZ60 but also stick out a lot more and catch more wind noise outside and aside from sleeping my back not comfy in bed. Sound wise these suite me better than the AZ60 un-EQ'd. They have decent sub-bass, more linear mid-bass and a brighter midrange and treble compared to the AZ60. 3D sound is just OK, instrument layering is slightly above average.

Status Between Pro - OK comfort wise but finicky in ear, sounds is warmer the FH5 but I find it is actually a nice change up so enjoy them a fair amount. No ANC, no ambient make them hard to use as an all rounder. Decent 3D sound, not as good as the FH5 but better than the Technics and GBuds Pro.

GBuds Pro - Better comfort than AZ60 but slightly loose feeling over all, sound is is energetic and very AKG, ie a mid/treble centric sound. The mid bass is good but wish it hd more sub-bass. Decent instrument layering but 3D is just OK. ANC and isolation is just OK, not great.

I am leaning towards one of the following but am wondering if any of them will satisfy me given what I already own:

Soundcore Liberty 3 Pro which I can get brand new for $160CAD or 127 if I buy a refurb/open box. Would this scratch my 3D image itch? Would I be able to EQ the bass to where I like and is the trble a bit to metallic?
LYPERTEK PUREPLAY Z7 $190CAD, would these scratch my 3D image itch, would I be happy with their sound? I know they don't have ANC but would the sound quality be a worthwhile trade off? Is the ambient decent?
Lypertek Pureplay Z5 - these have ANC but is it at the sacrifice of sound quality compared to the Z7? Battery life seems compromised.
Jabra Elite 4 $149CAD (don't think the price hike to the Elite 7 is worth it unless I can get a decent sale somewhere). I have a feeling these might be the most comfortable of all the TWS I am talking about but I worry that they will not come close to satisfying me sound wise.
Sony WF-1000XM4 - these are currently on sale for around $300 on Amazon Canada so have me tempted. But I sold the 1000XM3 as I found it a bit to dark sounding and lacking definition for my tastes and they did not have that great a 3D sound stage or instrument layering. So would the 4 be any better? Right at the this is to damn much money, even on sale...
KEF MU3 - On sale for $148CAD - these seem to be under everyones radar, is it just lack of exposure or are they just not that good? I own other Kef headphones and like their sound but have never been wowed by them...
Sennheiser Momentum 3 - wait and try these? They will be around $330CAD though so again right at the, that is to damn much money spot... Concerned they will be just OK sound wise. They look much smaller than previous models which while bolt like were comfy. I am wondering if they might be almost usable in bed. I think the new model looks pretty sexy though, that graphite color looks just awesome...
Final Audio ZE3000 - $230CAD - these are another pair that seems to have little exposure. They sound wodnerful in some of the reviews I have read with the exception of maybe lacking in 3D quality. They seem vey audio only focused so lack ANC and other niceties other TWS have these days. call quality sounds suspect on these in noisy environments.
Sony Linkbuds - $250CAD, Go a completely different route and try the linkbuds and use them for in the office and around the house. won't be useful outside but may be the best choice for the scenarios mentioned. My concerns are horrible battery life, not sure I will be able to get a comfortable fit while also getting good sound quality. I hear without getting them nestled deeper than default they lack bass. But would they give me an awesome open headphone type sound if they fit well, will they give me decent instrument separation and any 3D sound qualities? would these be a good sleep option for side sleeping? Note I have sleep apnea so a noisy sleep environment do to my mask and machine...
what are everyones thoughts?


I am sure there are some products I am missing so feel free to mention but try to keep the price point to no more than $300CAD.


----------



## clerkpalmer

samandhi said:


> Melomania touch allows this also.


The adidas sport tws also allow the touch controls to be locked. Fun headphones.


----------



## dmphile

erockg said:


> Well, well.  Look what the cat dragged in.  It's going to be a fun morning.


How does it compare to the EQ SQ wise?


----------



## james444 (Apr 29, 2022)

samandhi said:


> Melomania touch allows this also.


Yup, but these are IEMs not earbuds.


----------



## dyh

dmphile said:


> How does it compare to the EQ SQ wise?


I want to know this as well, especially regarding the max volume of the EXs. 

The Beoplay EQs didn't get loud enough for me.


----------



## erockg

jant71 said:


> That had 12 hours per charge with an older BT5.0 chip so there is room in there. Why they wanted it most likely. I'm sure that gives them room for more drivers though they might go with smaller battery. Has to be a hybrid with the foKus name right? They will gain some battery life back with a newer 5.2 more efficient chipset if they need to use smaller batteries to fit multiple drivers. Creative uses it and gets 15 hours with that same 10mm single driver config. and 5.2 in their ANC model.
> 
> One thing of concern is this...
> 
> Airoha based so no Qualcomm codecs??


I thought FoKus was them saying the buds focused on music but clearly not anymore.  Some of the pics on the FCC site look like variations of the same buds so who even knows what we're looking at is final.  I'll be bummed it it's not a hybrid of sorts.  But hey, they haven't let me down... yet.


----------



## erockg

dyh said:


> I want to know this as well, especially regarding the max volume of the EXs.
> 
> The Beoplay EQs didn't get loud enough for me.


I can't speak for the others here who now have the EX, but for me, they're louder.  Bigger driver, bigger sound.  I've used them all day and I'm extremely happy with them.  I don't like the stems, but for calls, I've taken a lot today and no issues at all.  Lots of Metal and Stoner Rock too.  Effin awesome.


----------



## Law87

just got my Beo EX today...sound seems to be on the warmer side from the BEO EQ, going for the laid back sound... Fit is a lot better than the EQ


----------



## samandhi

james444 said:


> Yup, but these are IRMs not earbuds.


You are right. I guess I have finally given up trying to argue semantics here (and Google search) as to what an earbud and what an IEM is. Most places nowadays TWS are known as earbuds, period regardless of the actual type. 

It can get confusing sometimes. I frequent the earbud thread and am a huge fan; the true classic kind, not semi-in ear nor in ear (the round type that sit in your concha only).


----------



## dyh

erockg said:


> I can't speak for the others here who now have the EX, but for me, they're louder.  Bigger driver, bigger sound.  I've used them all day and I'm extremely happy with them.  I don't like the stems, but for calls, I've taken a lot today and no issues at all.  Lots of Metal and Stoner Rock too.  Effin awesome.


Thanks for the info. I'm thinking it's going to be between the Noble FoKus Pro, and the Beoplay EX for me, since it seems like there's no telling how long it'll take Noble to release the FoKus H-ANC.

It seems like the FoKus Pros might be a bit better when it comes to sound quality compared to the EXs, but of course the EXs have ANC and Transparency Mode, etc.

Does anybody have the ability to A/B the max volume of the FoKus Pros and Beoplay EXs? 

I'm curious to know if they're both about equal in max volume. I know the FoKus Pros are supposed to get plenty loud, but like I said, the Beoplay EQs weren't loud enough for me.


----------



## Law87

why yall care so much at max volume...I wonder if some of yall deaf...I couldnt play any of my buds full volume..


----------



## clerkpalmer

dyh said:


> Thanks for the info. I'm thinking it's going to be between the Noble FoKus Pro, and the Beoplay EX for me, since it seems like there's no telling how long it'll take Noble to release the FoKus H-ANC.
> 
> It seems like the FoKus Pros might be a bit better when it comes to sound quality compared to the EXs, but of course the EXs have ANC and Transparency Mode, etc.
> 
> ...


 Take it from this old man with tinnitus from hell. Protect your ears. If you need to max it, something is wrong. Sorry for the lecture but I’m telling you you don’t want what I have.


----------



## dyh (Apr 28, 2022)

clerkpalmer said:


> Take it from this old man with tinnitus from hell. Protect your ears. If you need to max it, something is wrong. Sorry for the lecture but I’m telling you you don’t want what I have.


Hey, I just sent you a PM.

The Beoplay EQs didn't get loud enough for me, and I'd rather have more than enough volume, rather than not enough. Also, if I remember correctly, there was a bit of a strange shift in sound as the EQs approached the max volume.

The Devialet Geminis got more than loud enough for me, and I understand the FoKus Pros also get plenty loud enough. So again, I'd rather have more than enough volume, rather than not enough, especially when it comes to earphones around the $400 mark.

It seems like you have both the FoKus Pros and the Beoplay EXs, so is the bottom line that the FoKus Pros are a bit better in sound quality than the EXs, but the EXs have good sound quality, plus the additional features like ANC, and Transparency Mode, etc?


----------



## BlazdiqFoods

jant71 said:


> Edifier fairly quickly updating the Neobuds to the "S" model that is Snapdragon Sound 24/96K compatible with WCC5151 and some tweaks including ditching the gray/silver for black and gold. Said to be the same price as the Pro.


Im interested in this as it has aptx adaptive. 
Is this product globally available or only for local china?
Will the voice prompt be in english or chinese? If only in chinese is it able to change voice prompt to english?
Is this model compatible with the global version of neobuds pro?


----------



## erockg

dyh said:


> Hey, I just sent you a PM.
> 
> The Beoplay EQs didn't get loud enough for me, and I'd rather have more than enough volume, rather than not enough. Also, if I remember correctly, there was a bit of a strange shift in sound as the EQs approached the max volume.
> 
> ...


When did you last have the EQ, not sure if you still have them.  After the last update that enabled multi-point, I swear they got a bit louder.  Just my two cents.  And the EX are PLENTY loud for me.  My iPhone constantly tells me I've gone over my db quota.  Not a good thing, but some days it's so hard not to rock.


----------



## dyh

erockg said:


> When did you last have the EQ, not sure if you still have them.  After the last update that enabled multi-point, I swear they got a bit louder.  Just my two cents.  And the EX are PLENTY loud for me.  My iPhone constantly tells me I've gone over my db quota.  Not a good thing, but some days it's so hard not to rock.


I demoed the EQs awhile ago, and I didn't have them for long. If I went with B&O, I think it would have to be the EXs. I bet they do get loud enough, since they have the bigger drivers.

It's kind of hard to decide, but I'm leaning towards still going with the Noble FoKus Pros, if they have a bit better sound quality compared to the EXs.

The other thing about the EQs and the max volume seeming low is that not all recordings have a squashed dynamic range, with the makeup gain turned up to 11, so it's better that the volume can be increased when you need it, especially at the B&O price point.


----------



## productred

dweaver said:


> OK, so had an unexpected windfall today. My first thought was to go all in and by the Fiio FH9 as an upgrade on my FH5/TWS adapter combo. But I am backing away from the cliff so to speak as this is an $800CAD expense and while I am pretty sure I would be in Nirvana I am not sure I would stay there as long as I would like.
> 
> So what I love about the FH5 is the decent sub-bass, linear mid-bass, decent midrange, sparkly yet not to sharp of highs and above all else the wonderful 3D presentation with excellent instrument layering. I also love the fit in ear of the FH5.
> 
> ...



Victor HA-FW1000t and AKG N400, if sound is your thing out of most. Controls on the Victor is a breeze and the ANC and related features are awesome. Controls on the N400 is a bit quirky but the price is unbeatable. N400 is neutral-tuned but the deficiencies of the bluetooth sound are still there, just like every other options you have mentioned; on the other hand the Victor is the only TWS set that makes me not missing my DAP/IEM or CIEM combo at all.


----------



## dweaver (Apr 29, 2022)

@productred, Thanks I have been reading and thinking about the N400, can get them for $105CAD. The victors are out of reach for me at $500+ CAD.


----------



## james444

samandhi said:


> You are right. I guess I have finally given up trying to argue semantics here (and Google search) as to what an earbud and what an IEM is. Most places nowadays TWS are known as earbuds, period regardless of the actual type.
> 
> It can get confusing sometimes. I frequent the earbud thread and am a huge fan; the true classic kind, not semi-in ear nor in ear (the round type that sit in your concha only).



No problem, I wasn't trying to argue semantics. Just wanted to point out that Melomanias are the ear canal sealing type, whereas the Oppos are open.

Which is kind of relevant for in-bed listening, since regular sleeping with sealed ear canals might promote ear infection.


----------



## jant71

BlazdiqFoods said:


> Im interested in this as it has aptx adaptive.
> Is this product globally available or only for local china?
> Will the voice prompt be in english or chinese? If only in chinese is it able to change voice prompt to english?
> Is this model compatible with the global version of neobuds pro?


Should be everywhere but domestic first. There is Covid stuff over there so things are shutting and slowed. If you have an Edifier site or dealer in your region contact them and see what they know.


In other unexciting news....




Always boring when they go higher to lower plus there is really no physical difference it seems.


----------



## helmutcheese

SoundPEATS updated their App today, it adds support for the newish Mini Pro though both are still crap (the App and the buds). 😁


----------



## dyh (Apr 29, 2022)

Has anybody else compared the Noble FoKus Pros to the new Beoplay EXs?

It seems like the EXs can get louder than the Beoplay EQs, but I'm trying to figure out if the sound quality of the Noble FoKus Pros is better than the sound quality of the Beoplay EXs.

I know the EX wins on additional features like ANC and Transparency Mode.

EDIT: Also, is the Beoplay EX App the same as the Beoplay EQ App? I think I'd prefer a different kind of EQ to the circular EQ in the B&O App. It seems the 10 band EQ in the Noble App would offer more granular adjustments.


----------



## BooleanBones

Finally, the Buster Brown decided to swing by the ponderosa. Pleased so far with the EXs. The app probably needs a bit of work with them. It's not as seamless connecting as the others I have owned by them. I feel like jumping in the pool with them now to see how their rating holds up


----------



## BooleanBones

dyh said:


> Has anybody else compared the Noble FoKus Pros to the new Beoplay EXs?
> 
> It seems like the EXs can get louder than the Beoplay EQs, but I'm trying to figure out if the sound quality of the Noble FoKus Pros is better than the sound quality of the Beoplay EXs.
> 
> ...


Yep, the wheel of sound is included in every set I have used. You will probably not get anything different from them any time soon. Did you happen to check out the review @Ceeluh7 posted on the Fokus a couple pages back? I don't think you can get a more accurate assessment on them. In terms of loudness factor, the Fokus win this category and will break your ear drums if you are not careful, although I think the EXs go plenty high themselves (beyond safe levels). The EXs are quite similar to the EQ in terms of SQ and tuning, but with a bit more capabilities in both volume and probably low end. I have not listened to them long enough yet but the similarities are there. They are more comfortable and secure than the EQs in my opinion. That's all I can really provide at this point, need to listen to them more.


----------



## dyh

BooleanBones said:


> Yep, the wheel of sound is included in every set I have used. You will probably not get anything different from them any time soon. Did you happen to check out the review @Ceeluh7 posted on the Fokus a couple pages back? I don't think you can get a more accurate assessment on them. In terms of loudness factor, the Fokus win this category and will break your ear drums if you are not careful, although I think the EXs go plenty high themselves (beyond safe levels). The EXs are quite similar to the EQ in terms of SQ and tuning, but with a bit more capabilities in both volume and probably low end. I have not listened to them long enough yet but the similarities are there. They are more comfortable and secure than the EQs in my opinion. That's all I can really provide at this point, need to listen to them more.


Thanks, I did read the FoKus Review, and it was good. 

I liked the sound quality of the Beoplay EQs, although they didn't get loud enough, so that was the dealbreaker on the EQs for me.

After you've listened to the EXs some more, can you post your thoughts on how they compare to the FoKus Pros just in terms of sound quality?

Thanks for your help!


----------



## jant71

dyh said:


> Thanks, I did read the FoKus Review, and it was good.
> 
> I liked the sound quality of the Beoplay EQs, although they didn't get loud enough, so that was the dealbreaker on the EQs for me.
> 
> ...


You can't get both and return the one you like less??


----------



## dyh

jant71 said:


> You can't get both and return the one you like less??


No


----------



## jant71 (Apr 29, 2022)

dyh said:


> No


Too bad. That would be the best way of course. I would tell you to get the Noble if it is just about SQ. The volume is a big issue so you know that will be better and more volume many times equates to better perceived SQ. The Noble is said to be slightly better in terms of SQ trying for a bit more resolution and the EX is a bit softer and gentler on the ears. Not a huge difference and some might prefer one over the other for the sound signature but if you want the better SQ then get the Noble. Besides it is $50 cheaper at the moment as well.


----------



## dyh

jant71 said:


> Too bad. That would be the best way of course.


Yes, I agree. Too bad I don't know anybody in my area with the FoKus. And the EXs are sold out already.


----------



## erockg

BooleanBones said:


> Finally, the Buster Brown decided to swing by the ponderosa. Pleased so far with the EXs. The app probably needs a bit of work with them. It's not as seamless connecting as the others I have owned by them. I feel like jumping in the pool with them now to see how their rating holds up


Once I get the app setup, I just never touch it.  It needs an update, but there are worse out there!  Been listening to mine since yesterday and man, I do dig them.  I agree, the volume and low end is spot on.  B&O keep getting better IMO.  Nice to see.  I also do not hear that strange distortion we heard on the EQs early on.  One note, I do think the ANC on the EQ is better but that could just be passive isolation messing with my ears.


----------



## dyh

jant71 said:


> Too bad. That would be the best way of course. I would tell you to get the Noble if it is just about SQ. The volume is a big issue so you know that will be better and more volume many times equates to better perceived SQ. The Noble is said to be slightly better in terms of SQ trying for a bit more resolution and the EX is a bit softer and gentler on the ears. Not a huge difference and some might prefer one over the other for the sound signature but if you want the better SQ then get the Noble. Besides it is $50 cheaper at the moment as well.


Have you personally done a shootout between the Noble FoKus Pros and the Beoplay EXs?

The volume was an issue for me on the EQs, but it seems like it may not be on the EXs, due to the bigger drivers.

I still want to know what users who've directly A/Bed the FoKus vs the EXs think about the sound quality between the two, since I can't do a shootout myself.

I know they both have good sound quality, but if the FoKus wins by a bit on sound quality, I'll probably go with that. If they're equal on sound quality, and the low volume issue has been fixed with the EXs, then I'd probably go with the EXs due to the additional features.


----------



## BooleanBones

jant71 said:


> Too bad. That would be the best way of course. I would tell you to get the Noble if it is just about SQ. The volume is a big issue so you know that will be better and more volume many times equates to better perceived SQ. The Noble is said to be slightly better in terms of SQ trying for a bit more resolution and the EX is a bit softer and gentler on the ears. Not a huge difference and some might prefer one over the other for the sound signature but if you want the better SQ then get the Noble. Besides it is $50 cheaper at the moment as well.


I agree with this too. For me, I have very different use cases for the Fokus and the EX, which is what drove me to get the EX (ANC, Transparency, size/portability, mics). If I were to choose between the two based on solely listening to music inside my house, then I would stick with the Fokus based on music capabilities alone. But my ears are not golden either, so it could be quite different for you.


----------



## VICosPhi (Apr 29, 2022)

I got the Beoplay EX and they sound pretty good, similar to EQs but slightly muted on high notes(treble). Sub bass is present and shows up when needed. Mid bass is not bloated and is just enough or maybe slightly lower than the competition. These fit much better than EQs but Edifier Neobuds fit better and feel lighter to my ears. The glass touchpads seem neat and two toned color is good to look at otherwise bland looking buds. Battery on my right bud drains 5% faster than the left bud. Mic quality is good too, and it is good at discarding surrounding noise when it sends your voice over the mic. Firmware upgrade takes forever just like Sennheisers, as compared to Sony, Anker or Technics.

Now, the question is are these worth the $400 price tag? I am not sure they are that much better than other top of the line TWS. I am a B&O fan and love my H95 but I am debating keeping these vs my AZ60 which sound mostly the same, minus slightly better vocals and sound stage on Beoplay EX. But these lack mute button for calls that Technics have. Mic also sounds clearer on the AZ60 but it is a very slight difference. Quite commendable for Technics to have such good mic quality without stems.


----------



## BooleanBones

erockg said:


> Once I get the app setup, I just never touch it.  It needs an update, but there are worse out there!  Been listening to mine since yesterday and man, I do dig them.  I agree, the volume and low end is spot on.  B&O keep getting better IMO.  Nice to see.  I also do not hear that strange distortion we heard on the EQs early on.  One note, I do think the ANC on the EQ is better but that could just be passive isolation messing with my ears.


One thing I also noticed is the sound signature contains more bass when you switch from off to Transparency/ANC. Not that I mind, just happened to notice it seems thinner when ANC is off.


----------



## dyh

BooleanBones said:


> I agree with this too. For me, I have very different use cases for the Fokus and the EX, which is what drove me to get the EX (ANC, Transparency, size/portability, mics). If I were to choose between the two based on solely listening to music inside my house, then I would stick with the Fokus based on music capabilities alone. But my ears are not golden either, so it could be quite different for you.


Thanks, this is helpful. I have tried the EQs, and it seems the sound signature of the EXs is similar, based on what people are saying here. If the FoKus has somewhat better audio quality, then it seems like the right choice for me.


----------



## BobJS

dweaver said:


> @productred, Thanks I have been reading and thinking about the N400, can get them for $105CAD. The victors are out of reach for me at $500+ CAD.



N400 are $48 (USD) @ akg.com

Free shipping , no tax to US.  Not sure about Canada.


----------



## erockg

VICosPhi said:


> I got the Beoplay EX and they sound pretty good, similar to EQs but slightly muted on high notes(treble). Sub bass is present and shows up when needed. Mid bass is not bloated and is just enough or maybe slightly lower than the competition. These fit much better than EQs but Edifier Neobuds fit better and feel lighter to my ears. The glass touchpads seem neat and two toned color is good to look at otherwise bland looking buds. Battery on my right bud drains 5% faster than the left bud. Mic quality is good too, and it is good at discarding surrounding noise when it sends your voice over the mic. Firmware upgrade takes forever just like Sennheisers, as compared to Sony, Anker or Technics.
> 
> Now, the question is are these worth the $400 price tag? I am not sure they are that much better than other top of the line TWS. I am a B&O fan and love my H95 but I am debating keeping these vs my AZ60 which sound mostly the same, minus slightly better vocals and sound stage on Beoplay EX. But these lack mute button for calls that Technics have. Mic also sounds clearer on the AZ60 but it is a very slight difference. Quite commendable for Technics to have such good mic quality without stems.


This is why it's so hard to tell someone else what to get without them comparing and contrasting themselves.  I actually like the EX better than the AZ60.  My update took maybe 15-20 mins.  The Technics just didn't fit me as well and I very much prefer the B&O sound signature.  I'm hearing a better soundstage and warmth.  But not everyone likes that.  Plus, wireless charging is just integrated in my world now, when a pair of buds do not have it, it's got to be something special like the Fokus Pro.  Also, if ever needed, I mute from my iPhone.  I never trust the buds doing that when I need to hide my anger   The AZ are definitely an awesome value, I agree, and at close to half the price.


BobJS said:


> N400 are $48 (USD) @ akg.com
> 
> Free shipping , no tax to US.  Not sure about Canada.


Yep.  For months now.  I think a lot of folks here attacked that sale.  Great deal.


----------



## erockg

BooleanBones said:


> One thing I also noticed is the sound signature contains more bass when you switch from off to Transparency/ANC. Not that I mind, just happened to notice it seems thinner when ANC is off.


I'll check that out now.  Also, I notice with both the EX and EQ, the music will auto mute when you take both buds out.  Doesn't pause.  Dumb...  But maybe they'll fix that in an update.


----------



## erockg

BooleanBones said:


> One thing I also noticed is the sound signature contains more bass when you switch from off to Transparency/ANC. Not that I mind, just happened to notice it seems thinner when ANC is off.





erockg said:


> I'll check that out now.  Also, I notice with both the EX and EQ, the music will auto mute when you take both buds out.  Doesn't pause.  Dumb...  But maybe they'll fix that in an update.


I hear it.  Dude, the bass it just killer IMO.


----------



## dweaver

BobJS said:


> N400 are $48 (USD) @ akg.com
> 
> Free shipping , no tax to US.  Not sure about Canada.


Unfortunately they don't ship to Canada. Heck of a price though!


----------



## logiatype (Apr 29, 2022)

BobJS said:


> N400 are $48 (USD) @ akg.com
> 
> Free shipping , no tax to US.  Not sure about Canada.


No longer available. I'd heard you can't use the left bud by itself. Is that true?


----------



## Ceeluh7

BooleanBones said:


> Yep, the wheel of sound is included in every set I have used. You will probably not get anything different from them any time soon. Did you happen to check out the review @Ceeluh7 posted on the Fokus a couple pages back? I don't think you can get a more accurate assessment on them. In terms of loudness factor, the Fokus win this category and will break your ear drums if you are not careful, although I think the EXs go plenty high themselves (beyond safe levels). The EXs are quite similar to the EQ in terms of SQ and tuning, but with a bit more capabilities in both volume and probably low end. I have not listened to them long enough yet but the similarities are there. They are more comfortable and secure than the EQs in my opinion. That's all I can really provide at this point, need to listen to them more.


Hey man, thank you for sharing that... Means alot. Really.


----------



## BooleanBones (Apr 29, 2022)

Some cases for comparison if anyone needs it

Left to right, top to bottom

Fokus, E10, APP, XM4, TW-E5B, N400, AZ-60, T5 Ii ANC. Shout if you need something additional.


----------



## Law87

BooleanBones said:


> Yep, the wheel of sound is included in every set I have used. You will probably not get anything different from them any time soon. Did you happen to check out the review @Ceeluh7 posted on the Fokus a couple pages back? I don't think you can get a more accurate assessment on them. In terms of loudness factor, the Fokus win this category and will break your ear drums if you are not careful, although I think the EXs go plenty high themselves (beyond safe levels). The EXs are quite similar to the EQ in terms of SQ and tuning, but with a bit more capabilities in both volume and probably low end. I have not listened to them long enough yet but the similarities are there. They are more comfortable and secure than the EQs in my opinion. That's all I can really provide at this point, need to listen to them more.




I honestly dont think they sound the same...Ex sound a lot more laid back...my tuning is alot closer to the bright tuning capability...Mid are a little more recessed


----------



## jant71

BooleanBones said:


> Some cases for comparison if anyone needs it
> 
> Left to right, top to bottom
> 
> Fokus, EX 10, APP, XM4, TW-E5B, AZ-69, T5 Ii ANC. Shout if you need something additional.


AZ-69?? You didn't tell us they put out a new model!  What tips are you using on the TW-E5B. I am using, currently, Philips tips. From the 35XX I think(so long ago to remember).


----------



## Law87

productred said:


> *Victor HA-FW1000t* and AKG N400, if sound is your thing out of most. Controls on the Victor is a breeze and the ANC and related features are awesome. Controls on the N400 is a bit quirky but the price is unbeatable. N400 is neutral-tuned but the deficiencies of the bluetooth sound are still there, just like every other options you have mentioned; on the other hand the Victor is the only TWS set that makes me not missing my DAP/IEM or CIEM combo at all.




how did you even find this, youtube has all reviews in Japanese.


----------



## BooleanBones

jant71 said:


> AZ-69?? You didn't tell us they put out a new model!  What tips are you using on the TW-E5B. I am using, currently, Philips tips. From the 35XX I think(so long ago to remember).


Sadly, I have only used them with stock. The IEs sucked up my time. Might do that tonight  Stupid phone types whatever it feels like.


----------



## jant71

BooleanBones said:


> Sadly, I have only used them with stock. The IEs sucked up my time. Might do that tonight  Stupid phone types whatever it feels like.


Need some burn in as well. The more delicate things start to show more but no big change in the sig. I think they have settled out nicely. Tips are more important though.


----------



## deuter

I do keep visiting this thread from time to time, do we have a custom true wireless iem or are we still waiting for it?


----------



## dyh

BooleanBones said:


> Some cases for comparison if anyone needs it
> 
> Left to right, top to bottom
> 
> Fokus, E10, APP, XM4, TW-E5B, N400, AZ-60, T5 Ii ANC. Shout if you need something additional.


Thanks, it looks like the FoKus case isn't too bulky.

I read the ANC on the Beoplay EXs has been improved. I have it in my notes that I couldn't really tell the difference with ANC on or off with the Beoplay EQs.

I think I read it's good, but how is the Passive Noise Isolation on the Noble FoKus Pros?


----------



## BooleanBones

dyh said:


> Thanks, it looks like the FoKus case isn't too bulky.
> 
> I read the ANC on the Beoplay EXs has been improved. I have it in my notes that I couldn't really tell the difference with ANC on or off with the Beoplay EQs.
> 
> I think I read it's good, but how is the Passive Noise Isolation on the Noble FoKus Pros?


I find the passive isolation on the Fokus very good. I posted a while back standing next to some workers running a cut off saw in front of me, and the music was still piping through nicely. I find the tips they provide seal up nicely in my ears.


----------



## dyh

BooleanBones said:


> I find the passive isolation on the Fokus very good. I posted a while back standing next to some workers running a cut off saw in front of me, and the music was still piping through nicely. I find the tips they provide seal up nicely in my ears.


Thanks man, if they worked well next to a saw, it seems they'd be fine with noise on an airplane during flights.


----------



## VICosPhi

@erockg and @BooleanBones can you please check in the B&O app to see how much battery % difference is there between L and R buds for the EX? I am noticing a 2% difference where starting with 100% battery, right bud drains 2% faster and gradually gets worse as the battery is lower. For example, when L bud is at 60% battery, right bud ends up being 49% battery (11% difference!). Just want to know if this is normal or if I should exchange mine. Thank you!


----------



## Law87

VICosPhi said:


> @erockg and @BooleanBones can you please check in the B&O app to see how much battery % difference is there between L and R buds for the EX? I am noticing a 2% difference where starting with 100% battery, right bud drains 2% faster and gradually gets worse as the battery is lower. For example, when L bud is at 60% battery, right bud ends up being 49% battery (11% difference!). Just want to know if this is normal or if I should exchange mine. Thank you!


mine is currently 86% right and 83% left


----------



## Law87

dyh said:


> Thanks, it looks like the FoKus case isn't too bulky.
> 
> I read the ANC on the Beoplay EXs has been improved. I have it in my notes that I couldn't really tell the difference with ANC on or off with the Beoplay EQs.
> 
> I think I read it's good, but how is the Passive Noise Isolation on the Noble FoKus Pros?




the update firmware changed that...not sure when you had it...I thought it was decent.


----------



## dweaver

So I a could get the Jabra Elite Pro 7 for $210CAD is there any audio umprovement or super nice features that justify its $70 price over the Elite 4? I have the Elite 3 but found it just adequate for audio so sold it. 

I think it would be super comfy so might be an option so long as the buttons are easier to push the Elite 3 I tried.

 I can also get an open box Sony Linkbud for $200 off Amazon.


----------



## Law87

dweaver said:


> So I a could get the Jabra Elite Pro 7 for $210CAD is there any audio umprovement or super nice features that justify its $70 price over the Elite 4? I have the Elite 3 but found it just adequate for audio so sold it.
> 
> I think it would be super comfy so might be an option so long as the buttons are easier to push the Elite 3 I tried.
> 
> I can also get an open box *Sony Linkbud* for $200 off Amazon.





you know thats open back right?


----------



## BooleanBones

VICosPhi said:


> @erockg and @BooleanBones can you please check in the B&O app to see how much battery % difference is there between L and R buds for the EX? I am noticing a 2% difference where starting with 100% battery, right bud drains 2% faster and gradually gets worse as the battery is lower. For example, when L bud is at 60% battery, right bud ends up being 49% battery (11% difference!). Just want to know if this is normal or if I should exchange mine. Thank you!


similar to Law, mine haven't deviated beyond 2%. Started at 100 each, now 84-R/85L. Will let them run for a bit and see what happens down the road.


----------



## dweaver

Law87 said:


> you know thats open back right?


Yup, that's what intrigues me. Might be good in the office and at home when my wife is trying to communicate with me.


----------



## samandhi

dweaver said:


> So I a could get the Jabra Elite Pro 7 for $210CAD is there any audio umprovement or super nice features that justify its $70 price over the Elite 4? I have the Elite 3 but found it just adequate for audio so sold it.
> 
> I think it would be super comfy so might be an option so long as the buttons are easier to push the Elite 3 I tried.
> 
> I can also get an open box Sony Linkbud for $200 off Amazon.


Are you ordering from the US? If so, you DO realize that they are only $178 brand new right? Sony Linkbuds


----------



## dweaver

Canada, $250CAD up here. 

Ended up trying the Jabra Elite 7 Pro. Never tried the top of the line Jabra so thought what the heck. Bought from Amazon so have a 30 day return policy if not happy.


----------



## BooleanBones

BooleanBones said:


> similar to Law, mine haven't deviated beyond 2%. Started at 100 each, now 84-R/85L. Will let them run for a bit and see what happens down the road.


@VICosPhi Ran em down to 52/54% and no change.


----------



## Toom

BooleanBones said:


> @VICosPhi Ran em down to 52/54% and no change.


Isn't that just the Master/Slave relationship though - the master bud using more power?


----------



## darveniza

pitch_black said:


> My local B&O dealer has them already in stock (4 pieces) at the moment, but I spend the last of my funny money on a second (black) EQ a few weeks ago


Traveling in Asia and found them at a local mall with gift


----------



## Caipirina

dweaver said:


> Yup, that's what intrigues me. Might be good in the office and at home when my wife is trying to communicate with me.


For that they work aces! Problem is that wife now thinks I can hear her all the time, no matter which earbuds I am wearing  
But for sure it is a blessing that I can always have some kind of ambient bling bling sound on in my ears, it's like my own film score ... really awesome ... they get way more playtime than I thought they would ...


----------



## RobinFood (Apr 30, 2022)

Cheers everyone, how’s it going? I was pretty active following here and the earbuds forum until COVID change my reality.

I’ve been using the WF-1000Xm3 for a year and a half, and got the acoustune tips that make them comfortable and stable.

Now things look like they are going to be getting mobile again, and while I love almost everything about the xm3, the case is huge and it’s a pain in the ass to carry around.

I used to have a Sabbat open earbuds with a small case, but they unexpectedly died.

I also had the Nillkin go, but leant them to my wife, and she destroyed them (literally crushed).

I also had Nuarls nx01 that I gave to my wife after the Nillkins died. Loved their sound but I will probably never get them back.

I was thinking of reordering the Nillkens Go, since they had the smallest case, best fit, and a low profile in ears, but thought I would check first if anything better, smaller, more comfortable and affordable came up since.

I’m liking to keep it under 100$, I don’t   care about aptx or ldac so much, I just want something small, that disappears comfortably in the ear with a decent sound.


----------



## BooleanBones

Toom said:


> Isn't that just the Master/Slave relationship though - the master bud using more power?


Yeah, it was a test. His is greatly different the longer they are used


----------



## erockg

VICosPhi said:


> @erockg and @BooleanBones can you please check in the B&O app to see how much battery % difference is there between L and R buds for the EX? I am noticing a 2% difference where starting with 100% battery, right bud drains 2% faster and gradually gets worse as the battery is lower. For example, when L bud is at 60% battery, right bud ends up being 49% battery (11% difference!). Just want to know if this is normal or if I should exchange mine. Thank you!


Guessing you did the ol hard reset, reboot, blah blah?  I haven't had a chance to check mine.  Family duties are getting in the way


----------



## BobJS

logiatype said:


> No longer available. I'd heard you can't use the left bud by itself. Is that true?



Amazing.  N400 deal was available for months?  If I had waited another few hours I'd be $48 richer??


----------



## erockg

logiatype said:


> No longer available. I'd heard you can't use the left bud by itself. Is that true?


They're still avail.  AKG.com shows OOS, but just bought a set for a gift from harmanaudio.com.


----------



## erockg

erockg said:


> Guessing you did the ol hard reset, reboot, blah blah?  I haven't had a chance to check mine.  Family duties are getting in the way





VICosPhi said:


> @erockg and @BooleanBones can you please check in the B&O app to see how much battery % difference is there between L and R buds for the EX? I am noticing a 2% difference where starting with 100% battery, right bud drains 2% faster and gradually gets worse as the battery is lower. For example, when L bud is at 60% battery, right bud ends up being 49% battery (11% difference!). Just want to know if this is normal or if I should exchange mine. Thank you!


Okay, did a test of sorts:  

Transparency on, Music very low.
720am  100% L&R
730am 97% L&R
8am 89% L, 90% R
830 am 80% L, 81% R

I don't really see any issues here.  I agree with another poster about the master/slave.


----------



## Toom

Received the Noble Fokus Pro earlier today.

Yeah, sonically these things kick sand in the face of the Senn MTW2.

Boom!


----------



## logiatype

erockg said:


> They're still avail.  AKG.com shows OOS, but just bought a set for a gift from harmanaudio.com.


Just checked. OOS


----------



## erockg

logiatype said:


> Just checked. OOS


Bummer.  Sorry, I must have bought the last pair!


----------



## james444

RobinFood said:


> Cheers everyone, how’s it going? I was pretty active following here and the earbuds forum until COVID change my reality.
> 
> I’ve been using the WF-1000Xm3 for a year and a half, and got the acoustune tips that make them comfortable and stable.
> 
> ...



I can recommend the Fiil T1 Lite. Small case, low profile earpieces, very decent sound and low price. This review is pretty much spot-on:

https://www.scarbir.com/tws/fiil-t1-lite-review


----------



## Widell

Wow, great active thread!
Going from wired to first time wireless iem’s what is the best top 3 one based on SQ alone to consider? Is Noble Fokus Pro the top winner?


----------



## regancipher

Just received the Tronsmart Onyx Ace Pro. Feels a bit of an odd release with their long stems just as everybody else is going shorter but they've stood up pretty well so far. Review coming along with the QCY T18 for those who like their budget buds.


----------



## Ceeluh7

Widell said:


> Wow, great active thread!
> Going from wired to first time wireless iem’s what is the best top 3 one based on SQ alone to consider? Is Noble Fokus Pro the top winner?


For Sound Quality... Yes. If it is your preferred sound sig. I can tell you that to my ears this set is the closest to a wired sound that I have heard from true wireless earbuds. There are many great sets however


----------



## VICosPhi

Law87 said:


> mine is currently 86% right and 83% left





erockg said:


> Okay, did a test of sorts:
> 
> Transparency on, Music very low.
> 720am  100% L&R
> ...





BooleanBones said:


> @VICosPhi Ran em down to 52/54% and no change.


Thank you, gentlemen really appreciate you taking time to test and post these stats here! 
Factory reset didn't get me anywhere but knowing you guys are seeing the 3% difference between the two is good to know. I will test these out more, maybe drain them completely and do a hard reset by pressing the touch panels for 30+ secs when in case. 


Toom said:


> Isn't that just the Master/Slave relationship though - the master bud using more power?


Oh Really? I thought we no longer have the old master/slave technology on these new buds and these connect individually to the phone?


----------



## VICosPhi

darveniza said:


> Traveling in Asia and found them at a local mall with gift


And I thought I was special when I got a B&O pen as a gift with my EX


----------



## dyh

Widell said:


> Wow, great active thread!
> Going from wired to first time wireless iem’s what is the best top 3 one based on SQ alone to consider? Is Noble Fokus Pro the top winner?


From what I understand, if you're looking for the best wireless sound quality, then it would be with the pairing of a Bluetooth Adapter (Box style like the Qudelix-5K, etc., or Over The Ears style like the Shure True Wireless 2, or FiiO UTWS5) connected to IEMs of your choice. 

If you go with IEMs with a really high "price to performance" ratio, like the Olina IEMs for example, or if you already have your IEMs, then the adapter/IEM combo setup should be less expensive than some of the top TWS Earphones like the B&O Beoplay EXs, or even the Noble Fokus.


----------



## bladefd

Ceeluh7 said:


> For Sound Quality... Yes. If it is your preferred sound sig. I can tell you that to my ears this set is the closest to a wired sound that I have heard from true wireless earbuds. There are many great sets however


Have you (or anyone else) tried any other Falcon that comes close to the FoKus pro? Fokus pro at $350 is too much for me, unfortunately.

Or something else inside $300 worth keeping an eye on.


----------



## clerkpalmer

bladefd said:


> Have you (or anyone else) tried any other Falcon that comes close to the FoKus pro? Fokus pro at $350 is too much for me, unfortunately.
> 
> Or something else inside $300 worth keeping an eye on.


Falcon is a big downgrade IMHO. Under $300, I’d take a look at the Bose, the XM4 and the Klipsch. Someone said the PI7 was on sale for $300. That’s a pretty nice option with a BA and DD set up. If the PI7 is indeed 300 and you can live with the putrid battery, that’s where I’d spend my money.


----------



## bladefd

clerkpalmer said:


> Falcon is a big downgrade IMHO. Under $300, I’d take a look at the Bose, the XM4 and the Klipsch. Someone said the PI7 was on sale for $300. That’s a pretty nice option with a BA and DD set up. If the PI7 is indeed 300 and you can live with the putrid battery, that’s where I’d spend my money.


PI7 battery is like 4hrs, right? After a year of use, it would drop so probably not worth it IMO. However I don't use ANC.

I will look into Klipsch. XM4 seems to stick out too far from what people have said. Are the two better than the AZ60?


----------



## dyh

bladefd said:


> Have you (or anyone else) tried any other Falcon that comes close to the FoKus pro? Fokus pro at $350 is too much for me, unfortunately.
> 
> Or something else inside $300 worth keeping an eye on.


A couple months ago when I was doing research, I contacted Noble Audio, etc., and I was under the impression that a new Falcon ANC was being released shortly. It looks like the next Noble Audio product will be the Fokus H-ANC, which has the ANC, and the extra features the Falcon line has. There's no word on price yet, and I was told the release date could take a few weeks to a few months, depending on the supply chain.

I've demoed several TWS Earphones, and the ones I thought were the best from that are the Devialet Geminis, although they do need aftermarket tips, which would be a cheap fix. The Devialet Geminis are around $240, and personally I thought they competed with, and for me even beat, the $400 B&O Beoplay EQs, which sounded the 2nd best to me.

It looks like there are other new TWS Earphones coming out, or on the horizon, so it may be worth waiting to see what's new and good that comes on the market.


----------



## clerkpalmer

bladefd said:


> PI7 battery is like 4hrs, right? After a year of use, it would drop so probably not worth it IMO. However I don't use ANC.
> 
> I will look into Klipsch. XM4 seems to stick out too far from what people have said. Are the two better than the AZ60?


The AZ60 I haven’t heard but seems to get solid reviews. I’m sure others can chime in. The battery thing doesn’t bother me personally as these are disposable items for me and by the time the battery is cooked I will have moved on but I understand. The next gen of TWS is around the corner As well.


----------



## clerkpalmer

dyh said:


> A couple months ago when I was doing research, I contacted Noble Audio, etc., and I was under the impression that a new Falcon ANC was being released shortly. It looks like the next Noble Audio product will be the Fokus H-ANC, which has the ANC, and the extra features the Falcon line has. There's no word on price yet, and I was told the release date could take a few weeks to a few months, depending on the supply chain.
> 
> I've demoed several TWS Earphones, and the ones I thought were the best from that are the Devialet Geminis, although they do need aftermarket tips, which would be a cheap fix. The Devialet Geminis are around $240, and personally I thought they competed with, and for me even beat, the $400 B&O Beoplay EQs, which sounded the 2nd best to me.
> 
> It looks like there are other new TWS Earphones coming out, or on the horizon, so it may be worth waiting to see what's new and good that comes on the market.


If the Gemini is now 240 I completely agree. I thought they were over 300 but at 240 they are a steal.


----------



## DigDub

So... I have an opportunity to get a pair of N400 from a local shop. Are the case and buds very bulky?


----------



## clerkpalmer

DigDub said:


> So... I have an opportunity to get a pair of N400 from a local shop. Are the case and buds very bulky?


Not really. Pretty average. It would not stop me from purchasing.


----------



## dyh

clerkpalmer said:


> If the Gemini is now 240 I completely agree. I thought they were over 300 but at 240 they are a steal.


Yeah, and I think I saw that they were even less, and on sale, a short while ago too, but I forget where. Also, they launched in 2020, so I'm wondering if Devialet will release an updated version of the Geminis soon.


----------



## helmutcheese

dyh said:


> A couple months ago when I was doing research, I contacted Noble Audio, etc., and I was under the impression that a new Falcon ANC was being released shortly. It looks like the next Noble Audio product will be the *Fokus H-ANC*, which has the ANC, and the extra features the Falcon line has. There's no word on price yet, and I was told the release date could take a few weeks to a few months, depending on the supply chain.
> 
> I've demoed several TWS Earphones, and the ones I thought were the best from that are the Devialet Geminis, although they do need aftermarket tips, which would be a cheap fix. The Devialet Geminis are around $240, and personally I thought they competed with, and for me even beat, the $400 B&O Beoplay EQs, which sounded the 2nd best to me.
> 
> It looks like there are other new TWS Earphones coming out, or on the horizon, so it may be worth waiting to see what's new and good that comes on the market.



https://manuals.plus/noble/fokus-h-anc-true-wireless-stereo-earbuds-manual


----------



## dyh

helmutcheese said:


> https://manuals.plus/noble/fokus-h-anc-true-wireless-stereo-earbuds-manual


Yup, the Noble Fokus H-ANC is coming out soon!


----------



## Toom (May 1, 2022)

dyh said:


> Yup, the Noble Fokus H-ANC is coming out soon!



OK, but will it sound like - or better - than the Pro?  I thought the whole point of the Pro was for it to be all about sound?

I don't use ANC anyway - never had the need, and from previous tests it just degrades sound quality anyway.  So far, the only thing I'd like the Pro to have is an IP rating to allow use in rain etc. Oh, and maybe for it be easier to get them out of their case - they are quite tricky to get a grip on with my sausage fingers....


----------



## dyh

Toom said:


> OK, but will it sound like - or better - than the Pro?  I thought the whole point of the Pro was for it to be all about sound?
> 
> I don't use ANC anyway - never had the need, and from previous tests it just degrades sound quality anyway.  So far, the only thing I'd like the Pro to have is an IP rating to allow use in rain etc. Oh, and maybe for it be easier to get them out of their case - they are quite tricky to get a grip on with my sausage fingers....


I couldn't get many details on the Fokus H-ANC, but I believe it's waterproof, and it should sound better than the Noble Falcon. Going by the photos posted in this thread, it looks like it'll be easy to pry the Fokus H-ANC out of the case, due to their shape.

Hopefully it won't be long to wait for the Fokus H-ANC!


----------



## Toom

dyh said:


> I couldn't get many details on the Fokus H-ANC, but I believe it's waterproof, and it should sound better than the Noble Falcon. Going by the photos posted in this thread, it looks like it'll be easy to pry the Fokus H-ANC out of the case, due to their shape.
> 
> Hopefully it won't be long to wait for the Fokus H-ANC!



I haven't heard the Falcon - I was asking about the Fokus Pro though.   In other words, will the Fokus ANC sound better than the Pro?


----------



## dyh

Toom said:


> I haven't heard the Falcon - I was asking about the Fokus Pro though.   In other words, will the Fokus ANC sound better than the Pro?


Like I said, I couldn't get many details, so hopefully we'll find out soon.


----------



## mainguy

bladefd said:


> PI7 battery is like 4hrs, right? After a year of use, it would drop so probably not worth it IMO. However I don't use ANC.
> 
> I will look into Klipsch. XM4 seems to stick out too far from what people have said. Are the two better than the AZ60?


Why does it matter? Turn ANC off its like 4.5/5hours. They fast charge from the case anyway. For most users 4.5 hours is total overkill when the case holds 20hrs and fast charges the buds...I get there are use cases where its not enough, but they're few and far between. Li ion battery degradation is like 20% over 2-3 years, even then itll be plenty.


----------



## Caipirina

Here's a nice success story from Amazon Market place: The Bose SSF have been among my first and most loved TWS ... i got the first set used from e-earphone back in the day and somehow it died after 1 year of extensive use / abuse .. so I got another set ... this one also was heavily used and developed charging issues .. which now I am pretty sure has to do with ample sweat and unclean-able residue on the charging contacts ... and / or heat / moisture getting in there ... fast fwd to 2022 and I spot a 'Used - very good' set on marketplace for like 60$ .. in orange .. always wanted orange ... and wow, not only does is come in original, pristine looking package. The previous owner never opened the small / large Stay Hear wing pouches, everything is super clean  .. and today I finally did a battery test, my biggest concern ... and I got a very healthy 3h50 before I got the 10% warning beep ... nice! 

Those are still very very great sounding .. though not having ANC is a bit strange now ...


----------



## Hi-fi Wigwammer

Just ordered the Noble Fokus Pros.
Interested to hear how they compare to the XM4s.


----------



## erockg

Toom said:


> I haven't heard the Falcon - I was asking about the Fokus Pro though.   In other words, will the Fokus ANC sound better than the Pro?


Fokus Pro definitely sounded better to me than the Falcon Pro.  The standard Falcon was their entry level model.  So, 1. Fokus Pro, 2. Falcon Pro, 3. Falcon.  No one knows the driver config of the Fokus ANC yet.  Email Jim at Noble.  Super kind and informative guy.  Maybe he'll show their hand since we all know other specs have been leaked.


----------



## helmutcheese (May 1, 2022)

Will blow the Sony's away going by what I read about the SQ as they are never about SQ, but ANC, I did not like the WF-1000XM4 period (at launch).

I ordered the Falcon 2 *(Noble Audio NOB-FALCON2-B)< is this a Revision?* for £139, I am not going to pay £300+ for the Pro's this late in the day for a QCC3040 based set of buds without any of the new BT 5.3 improvements we are soon to see (plus I not like that blue bling, prefer plain black) and buttons.

You will probably soon see a Fokus H-ANC PRO model @ £350-399 soon.


----------



## Not so fat head

Caipirina said:


> Here's a nice success story from Amazon Market place: The Bose SSF have been among my first and most loved TWS ... i got the first set used from e-earphone back in the day and somehow it died after 1 year of extensive use / abuse .. so I got another set ... this one also was heavily used and developed charging issues .. which now I am pretty sure has to do with ample sweat and unclean-able residue on the charging contacts ... and / or heat / moisture getting in there ... fast fwd to 2022 and I spot a 'Used - very good' set on marketplace for like 60$ .. in orange .. always wanted orange ... and wow, not only does is come in original, pristine looking package. The previous owner never opened the small / large Stay Hear wing pouches, everything is super clean  .. and today I finally did a battery test, my biggest concern ... and I got a very healthy 3h50 before I got the 10% warning beep ... nice!
> 
> Those are still very very great sounding .. though not having ANC is a bit strange now ...


The magic in these is the soundstage.  I’ve yet to hear anything TWS that comes close, including Bose own QC’s.
Noise canceling on these would ruin the open soundstage, not sure it would even work, as these are open back..
Nice find 😃


----------



## jant71

Nice lazy Sunday afternoon. What is with you guys? No EX talk or impressions. What is going on here? Nothing to share?


----------



## erockg

jant71 said:


> Nice lazy Sunday afternoon. What is with you guys? No EX talk or impressions. What is going on here? Nothing to share?


Nothing new other than I've used them nonstop since the day received and still love them.  Honeymoon ain't over yet.


----------



## jant71

Caipirina said:


> Here's a nice success story from Amazon Market place: The Bose SSF have been among my first and most loved TWS ... i got the first set used from e-earphone back in the day and somehow it died after 1 year of extensive use / abuse .. so I got another set ... this one also was heavily used and developed charging issues .. which now I am pretty sure has to do with ample sweat and unclean-able residue on the charging contacts ... and / or heat / moisture getting in there ... fast fwd to 2022 and I spot a 'Used - very good' set on marketplace for like 60$ .. in orange .. always wanted orange ... and wow, not only does is come in original, pristine looking package. The previous owner never opened the small / large Stay Hear wing pouches, everything is super clean  .. and today I finally did a battery test, my biggest concern ... and I got a very healthy 3h50 before I got the 10% warning beep ... nice!
> 
> Those are still very very great sounding .. though not having ANC is a bit strange now ...





Not so fat head said:


> The magic in these is the soundstage.  I’ve yet to hear anything TWS that comes close, including Bose own QC’s.
> Noise canceling on these would ruin the open soundstage, not sure it would even work, as these are open back..
> Nice find 😃



Think this is legit??  https://www.vardon.shop/product/bla...oth-headphones-for-workouts-and-sports-black/


----------



## erockg

jant71 said:


> Think this is legit??  https://www.vardon.shop/product/bla...oth-headphones-for-workouts-and-sports-black/


Even if it is, I wouldn't pay a penny for those again.  They're gigantic, killed my ears and the case was like carrying a stick of dynamite.  But hey, I just wasted $99 on a pair of Earin A-3 that showed up effed up.  App won't connect with their servers to update the firmware and then this morning one bud won't even power on.  Good times!


----------



## jant71

erockg said:


> Even if it is, I wouldn't pay a penny for those again.  They're gigantic, killed my ears and the case was like carrying a stick of dynamite.  But hey, I just wasted $99 on a pair of Earin A-3 that showed up effed up.  App won't connect with their servers to update the firmware and then this morning one bud won't even power on.  Good times!


You walked right into that one. Nobody to blame but yourself lol.


----------



## erockg

jant71 said:


> You walked right into that one. Nobody to blame but yourself lol.


100%.  That said, I was dragged on a shopping excursion with the wife and kid (which was grueling), but listened to a baseball game for three hours.  They were awesome for that short time.  Heard everything around me, and the game.  Game over.


----------



## erockg

erockg said:


> Got them today and and did the firmware update.  Multipair is working flawlessly.  Haven't notices pops yet, but I'll put them through a workout soon.  I read somewhere on Reddit that they'll be adding auto-pause.  Wonder if that is real or just rumor.  If it's real, then these have then come a very long way with updates!


Not sure if this is real or I missed what was new in the latest firmware update, but my M&D MW08 Sport buds can multi-pair.  They seem to connect to my iPad and iPhone every time I use them.  Hopefully, not a happy accident.


----------



## jant71 (May 1, 2022)

erockg said:


> 100%.  That said, I was dragged on a shopping excursion with the wife and kid (which was grueling), but listened to a baseball game for three hours.  They were awesome for that short time.  Heard everything around me, and the game.  Game over.


Still don't you have the LinkBuds?? Some nice new Smabat and other buds for less to go on your FiiO that will smoke the A3 as well.


----------



## erockg

jant71 said:


> Still don't you have the LinkBuds?? Some nice new Smabat and other buds for less to go on your FiiO that will smoke the A3 as well.


Big changes over here.  I thought the Earin could replace my Linkbuds for almost half the price.  Zooming with the Linkbuds at work isn't great.  It works flawlessly, but the noise around me overtakes the calls.  I lose focus.  Stopped using them for that.  We'll see if the Earin round two fixes things.  Or maybe I need to move on and just use one of the ones I have with transparency on.  I really miss my old bullet-style Earin M-2 buds.  Been using my Shure TW2 with the SeeAudio Midnight IEM over my FiiO/Monarch MK2 setup, which seem to hurt my ears after an hour or so due to the size .  But even all those are collecting dust this week.  Back in the office some days, so it's easier to grab a TWS and go.


----------



## VICosPhi

jant71 said:


> Nice lazy Sunday afternoon. What is with you guys? No EX talk or impressions. What is going on here? Nothing to share?


Enjoying the B&O EX. JVC Spiraldot++ help bring some treble to these as these are a bit dark otherwise. The sub bass is also nice if you move the preset closer to mid right in the app giving you a nice rich sound. 

Comfort is not as good for me, especially compared to  the Edifier Neobuds(with stem design). The bulge on EX make my ears hurt after an hour of use.


----------



## dweaver

My honeymoon with the Fiio FH5 is over. It's my best sounding IEM I own but I have started to use my TWS again and find they offer a better option for portability and convenience and I am starting to enjoy them sonically again.

I have the Jabra Elite 7 Pro on order as I want to see if they offer a more comfortable option to the AZ60. But have thrown some Sony hybrid tips on the AZ60 and have some spinfit 360 on the way so may find I can make the AZ60 as comfortable so it will be an interesting week. Glad I bought from Amazon just in case of buyer's remorse.

Playing around with AZ60 and my Gbuds Pro and the difference in ANC and isolation is considerable, hopely the Elite 7 are better than the Gbuds in this regard. I would be pretty happy if the signature falls somewhere in the middle between the 2 as well.


----------



## jant71 (May 1, 2022)

erockg said:


> Big changes over here.  I thought the Earin could replace my Linkbuds for almost half the price.  Zooming with the Linkbuds at work isn't great.  It works flawlessly, but the noise around me overtakes the calls.  I lose focus.  Stopped using them for that.  We'll see if the Earin round two fixes things.  Or maybe I need to move on and just use one of the ones I have with transparency on.  I really miss my old bullet-style Earin M-2 buds.  Been using my Shure TW2 with the SeeAudio Midnight IEM over my FiiO/Monarch MK2 setup, which seem to hurt my ears after an hour or so due to the size .  But even all those are collecting dust this week.  Back in the office some days, so it's easier to grab a TWS and go.


Those PAC(Penon Audio Custom) Buds would look good on your TW2 though...




  If you want for a few bucks, you have to be 3000 miles away  , I have a set of TWS style open ear tips....


...that I could throw them back in the zip lock and in a bubbe-lope to ya. Not used btw.



VICosPhi said:


> Enjoying the B&O EX. JVC Spiraldot++ help bring some treble to these as these are a bit dark otherwise. The sub bass is also nice if you move the preset closer to mid right in the app giving you a nice rich sound.
> 
> Comfort is not as good for me, especially compared to  the Edifier Neobuds(with stem design). The bulge on EX make my ears hurt after an hour of use.


Yep, heard that more than once already about the comfort thing. The darker thing is also not my thing anymore.
Indeed...



I don't really like the look of it too much myself. Want to see and hear more about the new AT flagship since I like the look of the shape and seemingly rubberized areas better...


 but they have also been on the dark side so far as well.


----------



## BooleanBones

erockg said:


> Nothing new other than I've used them nonstop since the day received and still love them.  Honeymoon ain't over yet.


Me too. Did a ton of outside work today before it reaches the 600 degrees mark and these are solid in the ear. I may venture into other tips of course, but these are great. I agree on the ANC/transparency too. I can’t a/b them with the EQ anymore, but they seem a bit less natural. Still works for me and a keeper so far. Let the Zooming begin tomorrow and see if they pass that use case.


----------



## Ceeluh7

dweaver said:


> My honeymoon with the Fiio FH5 is over. It's my best sounding IEM I own but I have started to use my TWS again and find they offer a better option for portability and convenience and I am starting to enjoy them sonically again.
> 
> I have the Jabra Elite 7 Pro on order as I want to see if they offer a more comfortable option to the AZ60. But have thrown some Sony hybrid tips on the AZ60 and have some spinfit 360 on the way so may find I can make the AZ60 as comfortable so it will be an interesting week. Glad I bought from Amazon just in case of buyer's remorse.
> 
> Playing around with AZ60 and my Gbuds Pro and the difference in ANC and isolation is considerable, hopely the Elite 7 are better than the Gbuds in this regard. I would be pretty happy if the signature falls somewhere in the middle between the 2 as well.


It's always good to step away for awhile and come back at a later date to realize why you like something in the first place. I use tws daily for the same reason, just too easy


----------



## erockg

jant71 said:


> Those PAC(Penon Audio Custom) Buds would look good on your TW2 though...
> 
> If you want for a few bucks, you have to be 3000 miles away  , I have a set of TWS style open ear tips....
> ...that I could throw them back in the zip lock and in a bubbe-lope to ya. Not used btw.
> ...


I’ll look those Penon up.  I’m not familiar with them!  I’m in good old Los Angeles.


----------



## erockg

BooleanBones said:


> Me too. Did a ton of outside work today before it reaches the 600 degrees mark and these are solid in the ear. I may venture into other tips of course, but these are great. I agree on the ANC/transparency too. I can’t a/b them with the EQ anymore, but they seem a bit less natural. Still works for me and a keeper so far. Let the Zooming begin tomorrow and see if they pass that use case.


I thought the same thing regarding tips. If you find something great let me know. I’m going to see if the ML Azla work.


----------



## erockg

Ceeluh7 said:


> It's always good to step away for awhile and come back at a later date to realize why you like something in the first place. I use tws daily for the same reason, just too easy


I totally agree. I love my in ear monitors but man, I always go back to the damn true wireless earbuds.


----------



## nekonhime

erockg said:


> I totally agree. I love my in ear monitors but man, I always go back to the damn true wireless earbuds.


We all the same as usual


----------



## logiatype

erockg said:


> I totally agree. I love my in ear monitors but man, I always go back to the damn true wireless earbuds.


Very true. It’s why I can’t justify buying TOTL. But ES100/Q5K can make it more palatable. Trying to order a UTWS5 when they become available again.


----------



## bladefd

Do you guys think the Devialet Gemini can still roll with the high-end tws? I recall there were issues on launch. Have they been taken care of since?


----------



## dyh

bladefd said:


> Do you guys think the Devialet Gemini can still roll with the high-end tws? I recall there were issues on launch. Have they been taken care of since?


You can get them via Amazon, and return them if they don't work out for a full refund.


----------



## erockg

bladefd said:


> Do you guys think the Devialet Gemini can still roll with the high-end tws? I recall there were issues on launch. Have they been taken care of since?


I do think they're great and even better at 240, but I've long since moved on to the newer stuff.  Had them a few months ago and they didn't have any issues after the big fw update.


----------



## helmutcheese (May 1, 2022)

Some more info on the 1More EVO's

https://www.digitaltrends.com/home-theater/1more-evo-hi-res-anc-earbuds/


----------



## bladefd

erockg said:


> I do think they're great and even better at 240, but I've long since moved on to the newer stuff.  Had them a few months ago and they didn't have any issues after the big fw update.


Was there any particular reason why you got rid of them??


----------



## erockg

bladefd said:


> Was there any particular reason why you got rid of them??


Soundstage and tuning was great but actually preferred my B&O EQ and now the EX.


----------



## BooleanBones

erockg said:


> Soundstage and tuning was great but actually preferred my B&O EQ and now the EX.


Not sure about you, but the grip and the ease of grab on to the E10s are much more to my liking versus the EQ. Seemed like I was always pressing buttons on the EQs, don't get that with the new ones, plus the seal is much better for me.


----------



## erockg

BooleanBones said:


> Not sure about you, but the grip and the ease of grab on to the E10s are much more to my liking versus the EQ. Seemed like I was always pressing buttons on the EQs, don't get that with the new ones, plus the seal is much better for me.


Pretty sure you meant EX and I completely agree with you 100%. Less taps and no tap to activate and then tap to register.


----------



## BooleanBones (May 1, 2022)

erockg said:


> Pretty sure you meant EX and I completely agree with you 100%. Less taps and no tap to activate and then tap to register.


No, I meant E10s. It keeps @jant71 from getting wound up on the Roman numerals  Also, Final Type Es are a no go in the case.


----------



## erockg

BooleanBones said:


> No, I meant E10s. It keeps @jant71 from getting wound up on the Roman numerals  Also, Final Type Es are a no go in the case.


Ha ha! Forgot about that!


----------



## Not so fat head

jant71 said:


> Think this is legit??  https://www.vardon.shop/product/bla...oth-headphones-for-workouts-and-sports-black/


Might be worth it just for the charger


----------



## Not so fat head

erockg said:


> Even if it is, I wouldn't pay a penny for those again.  They're gigantic, killed my ears and the case was like carrying a stick of dynamite.  But hey, I just wasted $99 on a pair of Earin A-3 that showed up effed up.  App won't connect with their servers to update the firmware and then this morning one bud won't even power on.  Good times!


But that soundstage……
Hard to give up, just like open back headphones.  Zep never sounded better,
Listen to JT’s Aqualung, amazing 👍


----------



## deuter

The B and O ex are the ones to get for sound quality? Or the Gemini are still at the top.
Currently using the Grado ones and loving it.


----------



## C_Lindbergh

I'm just waiting for more impressions of the EX/MTW3!


----------



## Ceeluh7

erockg said:


> I totally agree. I love my in ear monitors but man, I always go back to the damn true wireless earbuds.


Yup... You and I both


----------



## tiagopinto (May 2, 2022)

clerkpalmer said:


> Take it from this old man with tinnitus from hell. Protect your ears. If you need to max it, something is wrong. Sorry for the lecture but I’m telling you you don’t want what I have.



I’m right there with you. I also have raging tinnitus (in my left ear, at around 16.5kHz) since exostosis (surfers ear) surgery back in 2014. I try to have it under control with CBD and a pill (latest attempt) but some days (like today) it’s blaring.

A good rest and less stress alleviates it for me the most, combined with the current treatment. Headphones (any kind, at sensible volumes) help forget it.

But I also strongly advise not to hear music at high volumes. I went to clubs a lot, concerts galore (still do), bad headphones with loud sound... just avoid it. And IT WILL hinder the way you listen to music later in life. I’m 50 now and I’d like to listen to music for as long as I’m here. Aside from progressive (natural or induced) hearing degradation, just try and slow it down. Tinnitus is no joke.


----------



## scubaphish

tiagopinto said:


> I’m right there with you. I also have raging tinnitus (in my left ear, at around 16.5kHz) since exostosis (surfers ear) surgery back in 2014. I try to have it under control with CBD and a pill (latest attempt) but some days (like today) it’s blaring.
> 
> A good rest and less stress alleviates it for me the most, combined with the current treatment. Headphones (any kind, at sensible volumes) help forget it.
> 
> But I also strongly advise not to hear music at high volumes. I went to clubs a lot, concerts galore (still do), bad headphones with loud sound... just avoid it. And IT WILL hinder the way you listen to music later in life. I’m 50 now and I’d like to listen to music for as long as I’m here. Aside from progressive (natural or induced) hearing degradation, just try and slow it down. Tinnitus is no joke.


My left ear has a constant whistle. I get it and agree with your concerns


----------



## Sam L (May 2, 2022)

Still on the hunt for tws' with good mic for outgoing calls. Here's what I have currently that have good mic quality -- as good, or better than airpods pros.

freebuds 3
Jabra 65 (a really good mic in spite of being an ancient model)
galaxy buds beans
sony linkbuds

any recommendations?    and no, I can't answer why i need more.... I just do


----------



## Sam L (May 2, 2022)

Has anyone tried these out? Not appearing on a search in this thread. Looks like they could be effective at blocking out ambient noise in ety-like manner + anc

https://www.amazon.com/Elgin-Reduction-Bluetooth-Cancelling-Protection/dp/B09NS5F153

**edit** looks like it's just passive noise cancelling.


----------



## regancipher

Sam L said:


> Still on the hunt for tws' with good mic for outgoing calls. Here's what I have currently that have good mic quality -- as good, or better than airpods pros.
> 
> freebuds 3
> Jabra 65 (a really good mic in spite of being an ancient model)
> ...


I have just the thing for you.

Just updated my YouTube Call Quality Test:


----------



## regancipher

Also, Tronsmart have just released the Onyx Ace Pro. If you liked the Onyx Ace, this brings them up to date, and boosts the treble quite substantially:

My review here

Also, just received and have been testing the QCY T18....not sold on the aptx-HD calling, mainly because I can't find a device that supports it. Multipoint is flawless though - and they cost just £28!


----------



## nekonhime

Sam L said:


> Has anyone tried these out? Not appearing on a search in this thread. Looks like they could be effective at blocking out ambient noise in ety-like manner + anc
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/Elgin-Reduction-Bluetooth-Cancelling-Protection/dp/B09NS5F153
> 
> **edit** looks like it's just passive noise cancelling.


Yep, it is passive nc and it look like it gonna hurt my ears, but I was planning to try their headphones though.


----------



## erockg

BooleanBones said:


> No, I meant E10s. It keeps @jant71 from getting wound up on the Roman numerals  Also, Final Type Es are a no go in the case.


These are working great today:  https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08BR467F4?ref_=cm_sw_r_cp_ud_dp_7AD9FHNSWX0QV8VZH1NN


----------



## BooleanBones

erockg said:


> These are working great today:  https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08BR467F4?ref_=cm_sw_r_cp_ud_dp_7AD9FHNSWX0QV8VZH1NN


Those are on the menu for today. Got some in my desk


----------



## regancipher

BooleanBones said:


> Those are on the menu for today. Got some in my desk


They're my faves too. I keep pestering them to make some for the OnePlus Buds Pro - the opening on the galaxy buds version is perfect, they're just too big for the case.


----------



## jant71 (May 2, 2022)

BooleanBones said:


> No, I meant E10s. It keeps @jant71 from getting wound up on the Roman numerals  Also, Final Type Es are a no go in the case.





erockg said:


> Ha ha! Forgot about that!


I signed up for a night class:  B&O Naming Conventions 1001. I will indeed learn all about swapping number systems and why odds are good sometimes and evens at other times. Damn textbook is $80 though. Perhaps I can find it used.


----------



## Sam L

Hmm. So I'm co-working out of Pasadena today and look what's right across the street.


----------



## C_Lindbergh

Sam L said:


> Still on the hunt for tws' with good mic for outgoing calls. Here's what I have currently that have good mic quality -- as good, or better than airpods pros.
> 
> freebuds 3
> Jabra 65 (a really good mic in spite of being an ancient model)
> ...


Think you'll have to wait a bit more for LE audio, super wide band should improve audio calls by a lot.


----------



## BooleanBones

Sam L said:


> Hmm. So I'm co-working out of Pasadena today and look what's right across the street.


nice, looks like you need a break


----------



## erockg

BooleanBones said:


> Those are on the menu for today. Got some in my desk


Just tried some Spinfits, but the Azla tips just work wonders with the ANC seal for me.


----------



## erockg

Sam L said:


> Hmm. So I'm co-working out of Pasadena today and look what's right across the street.


You should definitely pop in.  Closest to me now is West Hollywood.  They moved from Beverly Hills.


----------



## james444

Does anyone know anything about these? First ever planar TWS?

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/100...d16515170161917751e24c4|12000028113141655|sea


----------



## Sam L

Sam L said:


> Hmm. So I'm co-working out of Pasadena today and look what's right across the street.


nope, no luck... EX isn't in stock yet. Probably a good thing because I really don't want another tws.


----------



## deuter

Sam L said:


> nope, no luck... EX isn't in stock yet. Probably a good thing because I really don't want another tws.


Get the Devialet then.


----------



## erockg

B&O Beoplay EX back in stock online.  Mine arrived overnight/next day: https://www.bang-olufsen.com/en/us/earphones/beoplay-ex?variant=beoplay-ex-anthracite-oxygen


----------



## VICosPhi

Sam L said:


> nope, no luck... EX isn't in stock yet. Probably a good thing because I really don't want another tws.


Bought mine in a B&O store in Phoenix. They had 8 in stock.


----------



## jant71

deuter said:


> Get the Devialet then.





erockg said:


> B&O Beoplay EX back in stock online.  Mine arrived overnight/next day: https://www.bang-olufsen.com/en/us/earphones/beoplay-ex?variant=beoplay-ex-anthracite-oxygen





VICosPhi said:


> Bought mine in a B&O store in Phoenix. They had 8 in stock.



Enablers. Each and every one of ya!


----------



## erockg

jant71 said:


> Enablers. Each and every one of ya!


They're the best B&O has made yet.  I've had mine in all day, switching from music, videos and phone calls on two devices.  It's been a lot of fun.  40% left.  Been in my ears 4+ hours, but obviously not always on.


----------



## nekonhime

james444 said:


> Does anyone know anything about these? First ever planar TWS?
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005004123593955.html?spm=a2g0o.productlist.0.0.107d352auZHtvu&algo_pvid=52b03e61-2706-4e10-b31e-a9c4651a8ca5&algo_exp_id=52b03e61-2706-4e10-b31e-a9c4651a8ca5-1&pdp_ext_f={"sku_id":"12000028113141655"}&pdp_npi=1@dis|USD||367.7|||||@2103250d16515170161917751e24c4|12000028113141655|sea


We need some lab ra- testers here, with 368$ then this should be the same rank with the fokus pro


----------



## Sam L

jant71 said:


> Enablers. Each and every one of ya!


serious... worst thing to do is to check this thread regularly.


----------



## Sam L

I noticed there are two different Edifier neobuds pro's out there, one that has "Hi-Res Earbuds" added in the title. The case looks different too. Any impressions?


----------



## nekonhime

Sam L said:


> serious... worst thing to do is to check this thread regularly.


I learned how to restraint myself thanks to checking the post regularly though (just need to think you are eating dirt to live lol)


----------



## jant71 (May 3, 2022)

A little revisit of the Simgot TWS. Since I took out those open tips I didn't have back then. Figure it is a good match with the beefy and rich sound of the titanium drivers here...




Works out quite nice. The open and easy to hear if needed but did some dishes and not too open. Makes the sound bigger and more open and more detailed. A bit too thick and smooth if you seal them up but otherwise handsome, good fit, controls include the volume and the connection is solid even through more walls than others and good to 100 feet unobstructed. Only SBC and AAC but the old things are BT 5.0. Don't have ambient mode but now just pause and nice and clear to hear. Can see using these some again now.


----------



## helmutcheese

erockg said:


> Just tried some Spinfits, but the Azla tips just work wonders with the ANC seal for me.


SpinFits can sound good but are too thin (and lack density) for a good passive seal so no go on ANC buds for me, AZLA Xelastec or newer Crystal (two lengths available) are far better.


----------



## tendou

Do all half in ear sounds tinny, thin or too bright compared too in ear type?

I listen mainly to youtube talk and speech. Using qianyun39 wired classical  earbuds type the vocal sounds full and nice. But using myhaylou gt6 the sound is sort of thing sounding.

Using haylou gt1 and fiil t1 lite the vocal is nice. Full and not too bright and thin or tinny
Is there any good half in ear?


----------



## Tommy C (May 3, 2022)

tendou said:


> Do all half in ear sounds tinny, thin or too bright compared too in ear type?
> 
> I listen mainly to youtube talk and speech. Using qianyun39 wired classical  earbuds type the vocal sounds full and nice. But using myhaylou gt6 the sound is sort of thing sounding.
> 
> ...


1More Comfobuds Pro.
Note that only the blue edition have the eq presets hence why the blue is a bit more money.  For what they are I really like them. Very good sound and I can spend hours with them with zero ear fatigue.


----------



## Ceeluh7

nekonhime said:


> We need some lab ra- testers here, with 368$ then this should be the same rank with the fokus pro


It does show that there is an independent amplifier on board. I was going to say, planar in tws form? Not happnin without some form of decent amplification. Planar has weird timbre at times and not always the thickest of bass but that is only from past experiences. Maybe these will do well, who knows. Nice post


----------



## tombrisbane

Beoplay EX quick first thoughts.  Much better fit than the EQ, soundstage is a little wider (maybe side effect of better fit), sound is warmer.  I’m very impressed, I was thinking of getting the Sennheiser MTW3 but won’t bother as of today, I think I’m happy with these unless I stumble across an issue. Had about 5 hours of use so far and everything is sounding great.

Looks like B&O may have both of my wireless preferences locked up (H95 and EX, with Sony Linkbuds for when I’m walking).  H95 has certainly stood the test of time for me, let’s see how these go!


----------



## james444

Ceeluh7 said:


> It does show that there is an independent amplifier on board. I was going to say, planar in tws form? Not happnin without some form of decent amplification. Planar has weird timbre at times and not always the thickest of bass but that is only from past experiences. Maybe these will do well, who knows. Nice post



I use my PMV PP planar IEMs with the TRN BT20S BT-earhooks and get decent amplification and sound quality. The BT20S uses QCC3020 audio SoC, which you can find in many older TWS, like FIIL T1X or MIfo O7. So I'd think a planar TWS may well be able to sound decent. But spending $368 just to find out whether that's the case with this particular TWS from AliExpress strikes me as a bit steep.

Anyway, good to see someone paving the way for planar TWS. It's quite likely that others will follow.


----------



## samandhi

james444 said:


> I use my PMV PP planar IEMs with the TRN BT20S BT-earhooks and get decent amplification and sound quality. The BT20S uses QCC3020 audio SoC, which you can find in many older TWS, like FIIL T1X or MIfo O7. So I'd think a planar TWS may well be able to sound decent. But spending $368 just to find out whether that's the case with this particular TWS from AliExpress strikes me as a bit steep.
> 
> Anyway, good to see someone paving the way for planar TWS. It's quite likely that others will follow.


There was a member on here a little while back that used the TinHifi P1 (OG) with the iBasso CF01, and he said that they sounded pretty good, and actually had a tad bit of headroom; and as we all know those are really hard to drive for an IEM and planar.

The tech IS getting better for planar and even mini/micro DACs that can have enough power to drive them better. The Timeless (for instance) are much more efficient and lower impedance, but they ARE still harder to drive (properly) than similar specc'ed DD IEMs, so I am with you, in that I am not sure I am ready to go all in for TWS orthos just yet (and I am a planar nut).  A regular smartphone can drive them with plenty of volume, but to excite the driver properly, I think there is a ways to go to get them there.


----------



## regancipher

Tommy C said:


> 1More Comfobuds Pro.
> Note that only the blue edition have the eq presets hence why the blue is a bit more money.  For what they are I really like them. Very good sound and I can spend hours with them with zero ear fatigue.


Comfobuds Pro are in ear...Comfobuds 2 are half-in-ear and are weirdly tuned, very bright until you reposition them and then the bass is very overpowering. This is a perennial problem for buds of this form factor. Sony get the closest to warm with with the Linkbuds, Samsung open out the soundstage with the Buds Live.

I agree the Comfobuds Pro are quite nice though


----------



## dyh

Flossy's review of the Beoplay EXs, which are his new top choice/favorite:



He is hilarious.


----------



## jant71

dyh said:


> He is hilarious.



The "🐝Bee-o-play EX are made out of aliuminium"!


----------



## dyh

jant71 said:


> The "🐝Bee-o-play EX are made out of aliuminium"!


I like that he uses the British pronunciation for aluminium. 

Also, I can't believe the Soundpeats are $18. I wonder how they sound.


----------



## tombrisbane

dyh said:


> He is hilarious.


I like his reviews - his Flossy tuning preference isn’t for my ears though


----------



## deuter

dyh said:


> Flossy's review of the Beoplay EXs, which are his new top choice/favorite:
> 
> 
> 
> He is hilarious.



Has he reviewed the Devialet Gemini?


----------



## dyh

tombrisbane said:


> I like his reviews - his Flossy tuning preference isn’t for my ears though


He wins on entertainment value alone. 

In place of the B&O Circular EQ, does using the Wavelet Android app's EQ with "Enhanced Session Detection" turned on work well as an alternate EQ for the Beoplay EXs?

Without Enhanced Session Detection enabled, the Wavelet app is limited to functioning with specific apps like Musicolet.


----------



## dyh (May 3, 2022)

deuter said:


> Has he reviewed the Devialet Gemini?


Yeah, he likes the B&O Earphones better.

Personally I liked the Devialet Geminis more than the Beoplay EQs, although my main issue was the lower max volume with the EQs, and I understand the Beoplay EXs can get louder.

At the $240 price point, I don't know of anything better than the Devialet Geminis, although they do need aftermarket tips imo.


----------



## deuter

dyh said:


> Yeah, he likes the B&O Earphones better.
> 
> Personally I liked the Devialet Geminis more than the Beoplay EQs, although my main issue was the lower max volume with the EQs, and I understand the Beoplay EXs can get louder.
> 
> At the $240 price point, I don't know of anything better than the Devialet Geminis, although they do need aftermarket tips imo.


Given you obviously have experience with both, Where do you think the Gemini's do well,  higher than average high volume, enormous bass, extreme separation and detail, tone and timbre?
What about the EX's


----------



## tinyman392

My B&W PI7 got to me today.  They do sound good, not quite my perfect cup of tea tonality-wise, but I wasn't expecting that.  I got mostly what I was expecting to hear.  A rather smooth sound with a slight emphasis on bass.  I kind of hear a slight V-shape with the way the treble is pushed a little above the midrange as well.  Overall, the bass is on the slower side with a tad bit of boom and impact to it while being far from tight.  It's not overpowering and actually has great presence but doesn't quite have the detail/texturing I want.  The midrange is on the smoother side and kind of takes a slight rear seat.  The upper midrange is a little tamed down but not overdone as to remove midrange clarity and vocal presence/volume entirely.  I do hear some sibilance in the vocals.  The treble is very sparkly and edgy, but again not overwhelming.  Like with the vocals I do hear a bit of sibilance.  

Bowers & Wilkins has always been kind of hit (P5, P7*, P7W) or miss (P3*, P5 II*, PX, C5*) with the ones I've heard from them in the past (I should note that the ones denoted with a * were review samples I received from B&W about a decade ago so there might be some possible bias with that).  I would say that the PI7 are more of a hit than they are a miss when it comes to sound.  

Controls are nice and responsive which is good since I've always found touch controls to either be good or horridly implemented.  The controls do lack customization which is a little unfortunate (at least I didn't see any options in the app).  I would like to be able to switch between ANC and transparency modes, but that doesn't really seem to be an option.  The ANC also does have a tendency to hiss when nothing is playing.  It's not obnoxious, but definitely audible.  The transparency mode isn't the best, but it seems usable.


----------



## bladefd

dyh said:


> Yeah, he likes the B&O Earphones better.
> 
> Personally I liked the Devialet Geminis more than the Beoplay EQs, although my main issue was the lower max volume with the EQs, and I understand the Beoplay EXs can get louder.
> 
> At the $240 price point, I don't know of anything better than the Devialet Geminis, although they do need aftermarket tips imo.


Do you find the Gemini stick out too much? They look a bit large in photos.

I do often use tws in bed while reading a book so I find myself wondering if taps would register with pillow rubbing against it. Especially if it sticks out too much


----------



## davescleveland

Ceeluh7 said:


> For Sound Quality... Yes. If it is your preferred sound sig. I can tell you that to my ears this set is the closest to a wired sound that I have heard from true wireless earbuds. There are many great sets however


Actually everyone is missing out. Geekfly gf10 is better than the noble fokus pro. Have both.


----------



## erockg

tinyman392 said:


> My B&W PI7 got to me today.  They do sound good, not quite my perfect cup of tea tonality-wise, but I wasn't expecting that.  I got mostly what I was expecting to hear.  A rather smooth sound with a slight emphasis on bass.  I kind of hear a slight V-shape with the way the treble is pushed a little above the midrange as well.  Overall, the bass is on the slower side with a tad bit of boom and impact to it while being far from tight.  It's not overpowering and actually has great presence but doesn't quite have the detail/texturing I want.  The midrange is on the smoother side and kind of takes a slight rear seat.  The upper midrange is a little tamed down but not overdone as to remove midrange clarity and vocal presence/volume entirely.  I do hear some sibilance in the vocals.  The treble is very sparkly and edgy, but again not overwhelming.  Like with the vocals I do hear a bit of sibilance.
> 
> Bowers & Wilkins has always been kind of hit (P5, P7*, P7W) or miss (P3*, P5 II*, PX, C5*) with the ones I've heard from them in the past (I should note that the ones denoted with a * were review samples I received from B&W about a decade ago so there might be some possible bias with that).  I would say that the PI7 are more of a hit than they are a miss when it comes to sound.
> 
> Controls are nice and responsive which is good since I've always found touch controls to either be good or horridly implemented.  The controls do lack customization which is a little unfortunate (at least I didn't see any options in the app).  I would like to be able to switch between ANC and transparency modes, but that doesn't really seem to be an option.  The ANC also does have a tendency to hiss when nothing is playing.  It's not obnoxious, but definitely audible.  The transparency mode isn't the best, but it seems usable.


I love mine too.  I agree, they do need a firmware update for the transparency on/off and volume controls.  I don't even think there has been a firmware update since release. Could be wrong.  Force pair is nice, even though I'd prefer multi-pair like the Beoplay EX & EQ and now the M&D MW08.  I used mine all day today at work with transparency on while listening to music and baseball games.  Fit is really good for me too with the EPro tips.  I don't hear the sibilance you hear, but I do hear great sound separation and clarity whereas a lot of my dynamic driver tws lack it in comparison.  For the sale price, these are worth a shot.  Truly looking forward to the next gen.


----------



## dyh

deuter said:


> Given you obviously have experience with both, Where do you think the Gemini's do well,  higher than average high volume, enormous bass, extreme separation and detail, tone and timbre?
> What about the EX's


So I was A/Bing back and forth between the Devialet Geminis and the Beoplay EQs. They both have good sound, and were the 2 best in terms of sound quality of the earphones I tested, but ultimately I felt like the fact that the Geminis could get loud enough, whereas I felt like the Beoplay EQs were somewhat lacking in max volume in some instances, led me to prefer the Devialet Geminis.

However, with the release of the Beoplay EXs, it may be that the Devialet Geminis are the best TWS Earphones at the $240 price point, and the Beoplay EXs are the best TWS Earphones at the $400 price point, but I haven't tested the EXs yet, so others will have to offer their opinions on that comparison.


----------



## dyh

bladefd said:


> Do you find the Gemini stick out too much? They look a bit large in photos.
> 
> I do often use tws in bed while reading a book so I find myself wondering if taps would register with pillow rubbing against it. Especially if it sticks out too much


I don't think I was bothered by any sticking out of the Devialet Geminis, if they even did, but unless you're not moving around when using them, I do think you'd probably want to get some aftermarket tips, for a more snug fit in the ears.

I didn't try them like how you use earphones though, so I'm not sure about that case.

Fit and perceived sound quality are so individualistic, so if you're leaning towards the Devialet Geminis, I think you should audition them. Like I mentioned, if you get them via Amazon, you can return them for a full refund if they don't work out.


----------



## dyh

davescleveland said:


> Actually everyone is missing out. Geekfly gf10 is better than the noble fokus pro. Have both.


That's interesting. Can you post some more thoughts on the differences between the two?


----------



## productred

davescleveland said:


> Actually everyone is missing out. Geekfly gf10 is better than the noble fokus pro. Have both.



Haven't tried the gf10 but lots of other stuff are sonically better than the fokus pro. They are ranked 4th in my humble arsenal of TWS in respect of sound quality. Not that I can't stand them though, have been keeping them in my rotation for a while now, but they suffer from the usual TWS syndromes not insignificantly.


----------



## dyh

productred said:


> Haven't tried the gf10 but lots of other stuff are sonically better than the fokus pro. They are ranked 4th in my humble arsenal of TWS in respect of sound quality. Not that I can't stand them though, have been keeping them in my rotation for a while now, but they suffer from the usual TWS syndromes not insignificantly.


Can you post the rankings of your TWS Earphones in terms of sound quality? 

I'm curious to know which products you think are good.

Also, I looked up the Geekfly gf10s and it seems one downside is that the gf10s are not compatible with a low latency codec like AptX, right?


----------



## deuter

productred said:


> Haven't tried the gf10 but lots of other stuff are sonically better than the fokus pro. They are ranked 4th in my humble arsenal of TWS in respect of sound quality. Not that I can't stand them though, have been keeping them in my rotation for a while now, but they suffer from the usual TWS syndromes not insignificantly.


What's your number 1 and 2?


----------



## productred (May 4, 2022)

dyh said:


> Can you post the rankings of your TWS Earphones in terms of sound quality?
> 
> I'm curious to know which products you think are good.
> 
> Also, I looked up the Geekfly gf10s and it seems one downside is that the gf10s are not compatible with a low latency codec like AptX, right?



Didn't do it on purpose but I have subconsciously listed them out in my sig in the order of my preference already lol

So to me, purely on sound 1. Victor HA-FW1000t >>> 2. AKG N400 >= 3. Final X Evangelion >> 4. Fokus Pro >>>>>>>>>>>>> 5. Fender Tour

All of the connects perfectly (except perhaps the Fender but that isn't too bad either). There are of cos other factors influencing the frequency of me reaching for each pair. As good as it sounds the Victor's fit is just above average and need readjustment every once in a while. The N400's fit is absolutely perfect, I never once have to readjust them once I put them on. Always go for the AKG for meals as chewing always dislodge imperfect fitting TWS. That can also be said about the Final, but the AKG have the edge there. Fokus got the looks and fit fine. The Tour is collecting dust, falling behind by a sizeable margin in terms of SQ not justifiable by other pros.


----------



## dyh

productred said:


> Didn't do it on purpose but I have subconsciously listed them out in my sig in the order of my preference already lol
> 
> So to me, purely on sound 1. Victor HA-FW1000t >>> 2. AKG N400 >= 3. Final X Evangelion >> 4. Fokus Pro >>>>>>>>>>>>> 5. Fender Tour
> 
> All of the connects perfectly (except perhaps the Fender but that isn't too bad either). There are of cos other factors influencing the frequency of me reaching for each pair. As good as it sounds the Victor's fit is just above average and need readjustment every once in a while. The N400's fit is absolutely perfect, I never once have to readjust them once I put them on. Always go for the AKG for meals as chewing always dislodge imperfect fitting TWS. That can also be said about the Final, but the AKG have the edge there. Fokus got the looks and fit fine. The Tour is collecting dust, falling behind by a sizeable margin in terms of SQ not justifiable by other pros.



Thanks, it's interesting how individualistic things are. Seems like opinions can be all over the place for a lot of the TWS Earphones out there. 

I'm curious to see how the upcoming generation of products fare, like the Noble Fokus H-ANC, and I wonder if Devialet will release something new soon that can compete with the Beoplay EXs.


----------



## deuter

dyh said:


> Thanks, it's interesting how individualistic things are. Seems like opinions can be all over the place for a lot of the TWS Earphones out there.
> 
> I'm curious to see how the upcoming generation of products fare, like the Noble Fokus H-ANC, and I wonder if Devialet will release something new soon that can compete with the Beoplay EXs.


I don’t think Devialet will, if you is look at their line of products they are building mostly one product per category with software updates to improve things.
Anyone with EX and Devialet Gemini to chime in on the differences?


----------



## dyh

deuter said:


> I don’t think Devialet will, if you is look at their line of products they are building mostly one product per category with software updates to improve things.
> Anyone with EX and Devialet Gemini to chime in on the differences?


Maybe that would be the case, but other manufacturers are constantly updating their TWS Earphones, and the Devialet Geminis are from 2020 already, so I think Devialet would fall behind if they're not updating their hardware, especially with the advances in wireless technology.


----------



## darveniza

Yez ge 


deuter said:


> Has he reviewed the Devialet Gemini?


Yes he did


----------



## tendou

Tommy C said:


> 1More Comfobuds Pro.
> Note that only the blue edition have the eq presets hence why the blue is a bit more money.  For what they are I really like them. Very good sound and I can spend hours with them with zero ear fatigue.


Thanks. Bout is there any choice for something 25-50 USD?


----------



## LordToneeus

AKG N400NC are back in stock for $47.99.


----------



## Tommy C

LordToneeus said:


> AKG N400NC are back in stock for $47.99.


----------



## logiatype

Tommy C said:


>



You and me both...


----------



## Tenlow (May 4, 2022)

Well, so it begins again then...

Not many first impressions yet. Just about to update the firmware first at the moment.

So far...the case is slightly more compact but feels the same as before otherwise. Not sure about the charging port on the front yet. You will pretty much directly touch it every time you pick up or open the case. Not a big issue of course, especially not when charging wirelessly but I don't really see the benefit here either. It's just... different.

Other than that: Fit is extremely good for me even without the fins they come with. The buds are a bit smaller than previous generations and fit perfectly in my ears. I also like the shape - looks better than the oval one, I think.

I will add more detailed impressions of the features and the sound after testing a bit but some important things I can already say:

- There is no noticeable white noise problem that I can hear right now. Only when the transparency mode is activated but that's never really been the issue of course 

- They are definitely louder than the MTW2 on my iPhone which is nice! More headroom is always good.

- Wireless charging works flawlessly. Tested it when I did the first charging.

- ANC is definitely better as well. I can already tell when only typing on the keyboard. Have to see how good it performs in real life situations, though.



More to come...


----------



## tinyman392

erockg said:


> I love mine too.  I agree, they do need a firmware update for the transparency on/off and volume controls.  I don't even think there has been a firmware update since release. Could be wrong.  Force pair is nice, even though I'd prefer multi-pair like the Beoplay EX & EQ and now the M&D MW08.  I used mine all day today at work with transparency on while listening to music and baseball games.  Fit is really good for me too with the EPro tips.  I don't hear the sibilance you hear, but I do hear great sound separation and clarity whereas a lot of my dynamic driver tws lack it in comparison.  For the sale price, these are worth a shot.  Truly looking forward to the next gen.


Oh wow, yeah, mine came with the "latest" firmware.  I don't know how often B&W releases firmware updates.  The other thing I couldn't find was EQ which I'm more indifferent about, but I know a lot of people want it.  I want to pull the trigger on the Beoplay EQ, but I can't for the life of me find a single FR measurement of it; the E8 is closer to my preferences tonally.


----------



## stacey

I didn't realize that the EX actually has been released. Are there demo's anywhere?


----------



## erockg

tinyman392 said:


> Oh wow, yeah, mine came with the "latest" firmware.  I don't know how often B&W releases firmware updates.  The other thing I couldn't find was EQ which I'm more indifferent about, but I know a lot of people want it.  I want to pull the trigger on the Beoplay EQ, but I can't for the life of me find a single FR measurement of it; the E8 is closer to my preferences tonally.


Sadly, no EQ ability in the app.  I have the EQ and now the EX and I love them both, but I think the fit, sound and button config on the EX edges out the EQ.


----------



## Tenlow

Update1 on the MTW3:

- So far, I love them. More than I liked the MTW2 and probably just as much as the MTW1 (sound wise). 

- The sound is fun, energetic and "consumer friendly" with a slightly elevated bass and slightly subdued highs but still just clean and "airy" enough for me. And that's just the stock sound. Personally, I wouldn't touch the 'bass boost' feature as that makes it a bit too boomy for my liking but some folks might absolutely love this slider  They are finally loud enough for me, phew! Clearly louder than the B&O EQ, for example. 

- Call quality seems good. Only had one call yet but that went flawlessly and the other person heard me loud and clear.

- Connection so far has been stable. No issues yet.

- ANC is surprisingly strong and much improved. It really drowns out my TV set during the Real - City match right now  Quite impressive, honestly. 

- Would love to see multipoint added in the future, though. I think they said that they will implement it, so fingers crossed. As we know, B&O also did that for their EQ TWS and it was a great addition there.


----------



## jant71

Tenlow said:


> Update1 on the MTW3:
> 
> - So far, I love them. More than I liked the MTW2 and probably just as much as the MTW1 (sound wise).
> 
> - The sound is fun, energetic and "consumer friendly" with a slightly elevated bass and slightly subdued highs but still just clean and "airy" enough for me. And that's just the stock sound. Personally, I wouldn't touch the 'bass boost' feature as that makes it a bit too boomy for my liking but some folks might absolutely love this slider  They are finally loud enough for me, phew! Clearly louder than the B&O EQ, for example.


Is that with the stock tips with the foam in them?


----------



## Tenlow

jant71 said:


> Is that with the stock tips with the foam in them?


The MTW3 stock tips are silicone only, aren't they?


----------



## BooleanBones

Tenlow said:


> The MTW3 stock tips are silicone only, aren't they?


I think he is referring to the foam inserts (hardly noticeable) inside of the silicone. I have them on my IE300/600 stock silicone tips


----------



## jant71 (May 4, 2022)

Tenlow said:


> The MTW3 stock tips are silicone only, aren't they?


I read reviews and see this...

Looks to be foam inside and the missing M would be installed and most likely have the foam as well, correct? I haven't had any Senn TWS but am familiar with the tips with foam from quite a few Senn models.


----------



## Tenlow

jant71 said:


> I read reviews and see this...
> 
> Looks to be foam inside and the missing M would be installed and most likely have the foam as well, correct? I haven't had any Senn TWS but am familiar with the tips with foam from quite a few Senn models.


See, I didn't even notice. First thing I did was to install the large standard Sennheiser silicone tips that came with the MTW1 and 2 as I still have many of these unused lying around here. They don't have that little foam piece but I will check of course


----------



## regancipher

tendou said:


> Thanks. Bout is there any choice for something 25-50 USD?


Tronsmart Onyx Ace Pro
1More Comfobuds 2
SoundPeats Air3
QCY T12
Haylou Moripods
FIIL CC2


----------



## regancipher

Sam L said:


> I noticed there are two different Edifier neobuds pro's out there, one that has "Hi-Res Earbuds" added in the title. The case looks different too. Any impressions?


NeoBuds S are due for release. Apparently support aptX adaptive and Snapdragon Sound.


----------



## Tenlow

The MTW3 tips are indeed like this, so there is the little foam pice inside of the silicone. I'm listening to the large ones as we speak. Seems like I do have a better seal/fit with the MTW1/2 stock tips, though. They do sound much better with the "old" ones in my ears at least. Interesting. I remember that I had problems with the IE300 because I had a tough time getting a good seal with the provided tips there, too.


----------



## dweaver

Well the Jabra Elite 7 Pro arrived.

So far I have updated the firmware and getting used to their features. Note a fan of the physical button pressing in the ear but may come around to it.

Comfort wise these are more comfy that Samsung GBuds Pro and Technics AZ60. They have better isolation than the GBuds Pro but not as good as AZ60. The hear through feature is a bit underwhelming in regards to being to polite, I was hoping the high setting would let in more sound. Having said that it's very natural sounding. I think this might be the first TWS where the side tone function is not just distracting.

Initial sound impression is that these are close to too balanced comparing to everything I have been using and used to. But it's growing on me. 

The hearing test and enabling / disabling it's setting are interesting. I could not hear several tones it played so I obviously have hearing loss and it compensated accordingly and the resulting configuration is a bit distracting as I hear things more emphasized than I am used to. Turning it off then tones things down more to what I am used to 

On the fence about these. Will give them a couple days to see how they grow on my. Will also see how they handle multi pairing, calls, and wind outside next.

Semi wishing I had tried the MTW3 but really available in Canada yet and they would be an extra $100. Sony in the same camp. Also interested in the new 1More flagship TWS...


----------



## dweaver

Tenlow said:


> The MTW3 tips are indeed like this, so there is the little foam pice inside of the silicone. I'm listening to the large ones as we speak. Seems like I do have a better seal/fit with the MTW1/2 stock tips, though. They do sound much better with the "old" ones in my ears at least. Interesting. I remember that I had problems with the IE300 because I had a tough time getting a good seal with the provided tips there, too.


That foam in the nozzle will definitely reduce something in the sound. The AZ60 has a similar foam in the tip and it reduces the treble a bit. It also likely protects the drivers from ear wax and such.


----------



## erockg

Late night rabbit hole over here.  Decided to buy to try the new Creative Outlier Pro TWS buds which I should have this Friday.  In doing so, noticed something similar again between the Creative buds and the upcoming Noble Fokus H-ANC buds.

https://www.scarbir.com/tws/creative-outlier-pro-review
https://fccid.io/2AT8X-FOKUSH-ANC/External-Photos/External-Photos-5837252

Similar if not the same shell.  If I were a betting man, the new Fokus H-ANC will only have one driver like the Creative buds.  Maybe someone already mentioned the driver config, can't remember.  Unless Noble Audio has found a way to cram more in there... but I doubt it.  This is the same thing I noticed with the Noble Falcon Pro and the Lypertek Purely Z7 when I had them.  Both shells were similar, both had the same driver config.  Granted, Noble should by all means tune better, but you never know.  Some folks did and still do like the Lypertek Z7 over the NFP back in the day. 

I know this is a common thing to do in the world of manufacturing headphones.  Didn't think I'd stumble upon the same methods again with the same company.


----------



## Tenlow

dweaver said:


> That foam in the nozzle will definitely reduce something in the sound. The AZ60 has a similar foam in the tip and it reduces the treble a bit. It also likely protects the drivers from ear wax and such.


That might very well be the case, yes. It's definitely a driver protection first and foremost, I think. Someone from Master&Dynamic once told me that this was the case for the MW08 Sport at least.

Not sure it's so much about the sound, could be as well sure. To my ears and with my ear shape, however, the MTW3 sound and fit amazing using the MTW2 tips. Much better than with the provided ones but that will be just because of the worse fit I get fit them. Your mileage may definitely vary, of course.


----------



## LordCarnival (May 5, 2022)

Hello all.

I’m looking for some sub 100$ TWS and as I saw on manu reviews best option is Life P3, but in my country they are a little more expensive than others, so I was looking at others less “famous”. What do you think about Life P3 vs AKG N400NC? Thanks you so much!

Edit: I said nothing about AKG they don’t send international shipping. Any other alternative to Life P3? Thanks!


----------



## logiatype

LordCarnival said:


> Hello all.
> 
> I’m looking for some sub 100$ TWS and as I saw on manu reviews best option is Life P3, but in my country they are a little more expensive than others, so I was looking at others less “famous”. What do you think about Life P3 vs AKG N400NC? Thanks you so much!
> 
> Edit: I said nothing about AKG they don’t send international shipping. Any other alternative to Life P3? Thanks!


Lypertek Tevi (Z3) is my pick. Excellently tuned but pretty feature bare.


----------



## Sam L

Tenlow said:


> The MTW3 tips are indeed like this, so there is the little foam pice inside of the silicone. I'm listening to the large ones as we speak. Seems like I do have a better seal/fit with the MTW1/2 stock tips, though. They do sound much better with the "old" ones in my ears at least. Interesting. I remember that I had problems with the IE300 because I had a tough time getting a good seal with the provided tips there, too.


yeah, the ie300 tips were useless for me -- impossible to get a good seal for my ear.


----------



## DDDYKI

Probably too early to ask for comparisons between the MTW 3 and the Technics EAH-AZ60, the two models I'm eyeing as an upgrade from my B&O E8 3.0. But, here I am, asking.  I do want LDAC support, which the Sennheiser doesn't have. My Galaxy S22 only supports LDAC and base aptX, so I wouldn't even be able to take advantage of the Sennheiser's support for aptX Adaptive. 

Also looking at the Sony WF-1000XM4, though I currently have the over-ear XM4s and the sound leaves me wanting.


----------



## Caipirina

Page 3000! 

Just sayin’


----------



## Caipirina

Tenlow said:


> Well, so it begins again then...
> 
> Not many first impressions yet. Just about to update the firmware first at the moment.
> 
> ...


Since I have dodged the Sennheiser bullet thus far, maybe I deserve _those_


----------



## dj24 (May 5, 2022)

Tenlow said:


> Update1 on the MTW3:
> 
> - So far, I love them. More than I liked the MTW2 and probably just as much as the MTW1 (sound wise).
> 
> ...


I don't think you would've wanted to drown out that incredibly amazing crazy game anyways


----------



## samandhi

tinyman392 said:


> Oh wow, yeah, mine came with the "latest" firmware.  I don't know how often B&W releases firmware updates.  The other thing I couldn't find was EQ which I'm more indifferent about, but I know a lot of people want it.  I want to pull the trigger on the Beoplay EQ, but I can't for the life of me find a single FR measurement of it; the E8 is closer to my preferences tonally.


Frankly I am shocked at how big the EQ are, considering they only have a 6.8mm driver inside. With projected battery life at 6.5 hours it doesn't seem as though that space is taken up with a huge battery. Are these using their own custom DAC/amp or something?


----------



## erockg (May 5, 2022)

samandhi said:


> Frankly I am shocked at how big the EQ are, considering they only have a 6.8mm driver inside. With projected battery life at 6.5 hours it doesn't seem as though that space is taken up with a huge battery. Are these using their own custom DAC/amp or something?


I know I have big ears, so they're not big to me at all.  They fit great.  That said, I think they just adapted the E8 3gen bud and molded the hard plastic portion around the bud.  I don't think there is a DAC or amp in there like the B&W PI7.  But everyone knows, with B&O, you pay a premium.  I don't mind that premium, but there are tons of other options that are a better value to some.  All the above said, the B&O EX fit me way better than the EQ.  It's like wearing nothing at all.  Hey now.

Internal-Photos-5089024


----------



## VICosPhi

DDDYKI said:


> Probably too early to ask for comparisons between the MTW 3 and the Technics EAH-AZ60, the two models I'm eyeing as an upgrade from my B&O E8 3.0. But, here I am, asking.  I do want LDAC support, which the Sennheiser doesn't have. My Galaxy S22 only supports LDAC and base aptX, so I wouldn't even be able to take advantage of the Sennheiser's support for aptX Adaptive.
> 
> Also looking at the Sony WF-1000XM4, though I currently have the over-ear XM4s and the sound leaves me wanting.


This guy compared it and seems like AZ60 has better mic, better bass and multipoint. MTW3 have better vocals.


----------



## C_Lindbergh

VICosPhi said:


> This guy compared it and seems like AZ60 has better mic, better bass and multipoint. MTW3 have better vocals.



Hmm! Well I'll order them anyway from Amazon, it's prob best to do your own comparison anyway I also expect there to be a day one update


----------



## helmutcheese




----------



## samandhi

erockg said:


> I know I have big ears, so they're not big to me at all.  They fit great.  That said, I think they just adapted the E8 3gen bud and molded the hard plastic portion around the bud.  I don't think there is a DAC or amp in there like the B&W PI7.  But everyone knows, with B&O, you pay a premium.  I don't mind that premium, but there are tons of other options that are a better value to some.  All the above said, the B&O EX fit me way better than the EQ.  It's like wearing nothing at all.  Hey now.
> 
> Internal-Photos-5089024


Interesting to know. Great find on those photos also!


----------



## erockg

helmutcheese said:


>



Yeah, these have been out for a while now. Floss is late to the party.  I have the FP8 which adds Qi but subtracts the Plug in case feature.  They're great but currently being sold to fund the new regime I have coming


----------



## Tenlow

For what it's worth, the MTW3 shape up to be one of my all time favorite true wireless sets, honestly. Yes, there are still quite some software bugs (!) but since I got them early anyway, I suppose and hope there will be another firmware update for the official release date in 4 days or so. 

I love how they sound. So clear and detailed, yet spacious, airy, musical and fun. Love that combination. Great ANC as well. Perfect fit (for me anyway). Loud enough. No more master/slave. Wireless charging. AptX adaptive. Good call quality. Solid bluetooth connection and range. 

If they iron out the quirks and add multipoint rather sooner than later,  these are a winner in my book.


----------



## VICosPhi (May 5, 2022)

Anyone getting red blinking LED on the B&O EX case? I have seen it a couple times now when I charge it with wireless charger (Samsung 15W charger duo). Seems the case heats up when using wireless charger. Charging with a cable now.



Tenlow said:


> For what it's worth, the MTW3 shape up to be one of my all time favorite true wireless sets, honestly. Yes, there are still quite some software bugs (!) but since I got them early anyway, I suppose and hope there will be another firmware update for the official release date in 4 days or so.
> 
> I love how they sound. So clear and detailed, yet spacious, airy, musical and fun. Love that combination. Great ANC as well. Perfect fit (for me anyway). Loud enough. No more master/slave. Wireless charging. AptX adaptive. Good call quality. Solid bluetooth connection and range.
> 
> If they iron out the quirks and add multipoint rather sooner than later,  these are a winner in my book.


I wish they improve mic quality on MTW3 to be in a similar league as Technics AZ60


----------



## BooleanBones

VICosPhi said:


> Anyone getting red blinking LED on the B&O EX case? I have seen it a couple times now when I charge it with wireless charger (Samsung 15W charger duo). Seems the case heats up when using wireless charger. Charging with a cable now.
> 
> 
> I wish they improve mic quality on MTW3 to be in a similar league as Technics AZ60


I saw it over the weekend, but want to say it was after I took them out the case or something. Everything seemed to be working, so did not pay much attention to it. Not seen that while wireless charging yet


----------



## BooleanBones

Tenlow said:


> For what it's worth, the MTW3 shape up to be one of my all time favorite true wireless sets, honestly. Yes, there are still quite some software bugs (!) but since I got them early anyway, I suppose and hope there will be another firmware update for the official release date in 4 days or so.
> 
> I love how they sound. So clear and detailed, yet spacious, airy, musical and fun. Love that combination. Great ANC as well. Perfect fit (for me anyway). Loud enough. No more master/slave. Wireless charging. AptX adaptive. Good call quality. Solid bluetooth connection and range.
> 
> If they iron out the quirks and add multipoint rather sooner than later,  these are a winner in my book.


How's transparency mode?


----------



## Tenlow (May 5, 2022)

BooleanBones said:


> How's transparency mode?


It's very good but has lots of white noise on the max setting as of now (the standard setting isn't "max", though). So depends if that's an issue or not. What I like about it is that you can set it up so that music pauses when you activate transparency mode. It's an important feature, I think, that many buds don't have for some reason.


----------



## BooleanBones

Tenlow said:


> What I like about it is that you can set it up so that music pauses when you activate transparency mode. It's an important feature, I think, that many buds don't have for some reason.


I agree. I also like the feature more if it transitions up to playing level. The XM4s do that which is awesome to not have it blasted back into your ears.


----------



## C_Lindbergh

Tenlow said:


> It's very good but has lots of white noise on the max setting as of now (the standard setting isn't "max", though). So depends if that's an issue or not. What I like about it is that you can set it up so that music pauses when you activate transparency mode. It's an important feature, I think, that many buds don't have for some reason.


Yes... It's just so unbelievable that barely any OEMs has understood this besides Senny/Technics.


----------



## dweaver

Spinfit CP360 arrived and Holy crap they have changed the sound of the AZ60 alot! They make the sound a lot more balanced being down the bass a fair amount. Bring the mids and treble detail and energy up.

They also fit on the Elite 7 Pro but I also like the Elite 7 Pro tips. 

Aside from comfort I am thinking the Elite 7 Pro might not be my cup of tea. Ordered these from Amazon but actually came from Jabra Store, hopefully no issues returning them. I like them but not as much as the AZ60, just a bit to polite in the bass and lacking the detail of the Technics. The AZ60 also has clearer pass through which I thought would be better on the Jabra.


----------



## TK33

Tenlow said:


> For what it's worth, the MTW3 shape up to be one of my all time favorite true wireless sets, honestly. Yes, there are still quite some software bugs (!) but since I got them early anyway, I suppose and hope there will be another firmware update for the official release date in 4 days or so.
> 
> I love how they sound. So clear and detailed, yet spacious, airy, musical and fun. Love that combination. Great ANC as well. Perfect fit (for me anyway). Loud enough. No more master/slave. Wireless charging. AptX adaptive. Good call quality. Solid bluetooth connection and range.
> 
> If they iron out the quirks and add multipoint rather sooner than later,  these are a winner in my book.


Appreciate the early feedback on these.  Sounds like what I have been waiting for.  Will likely replace my PI7s for commuting.  The PI7s are great but I miss ambient when using them for commuting (using the app is sometimes not really an option for me and annoying).  I always liked the original MTW (still have them but battery drain got annoying so they ended up in my unused TWS box).

Patiently waiting for the white ones which don't seem to be available yet.


----------



## Tenlow

I already prefer the MTW3 to even the B&O EQ. Yes, there you have it. And I really (!) like the EQ. Not so much because of sound alone. Both sound excellent but in different ways. It's more that they have the much better fit for me, better ANC and that they are louder as well. Nevertheless, I personally prefer the sound signature on the MTW3 - it's just more up my alley in direct comparison. But that's of course highly subjective (as is everything here ). I almost don't want to listen to the EX anymore as I know the fit on them is much improved compared to the EQ  Good times


----------



## BooleanBones

VICosPhi said:


> Thank you, gentlemen really appreciate you taking time to test and post these stats here!
> Factory reset didn't get me anywhere but knowing you guys are seeing the 3% difference between the two is good to know. I will test these out more, maybe drain them completely and do a hard reset by pressing the touch panels for 30+ secs when in case.
> 
> Oh Really? I thought we no longer have the old master/slave technology on these new buds and these connect individually to the phone?


Where did you land on this? I think mine are doing this today. Currently 7% gap between the two buds.


----------



## deuter

Anyone have issue with gain on the B and O EX, from reviews I have read the volume is soft.
I'am currently using the Grado GT220 and it have enough power to bleed your ears, love it but keen to see what the top B and O has to offer.


----------



## dyh

deuter said:


> Anyone have issue with gain on the B and O EX, from reviews I have read the volume is soft.
> I'am currently using the Grado GT220 and it have enough power to bleed your ears, love it but keen to see what the top B and O has to offer.


He did a decibel test: 

Seems like the EXs would get louder than the EQs.


----------



## erockg

deuter said:


> Anyone have issue with gain on the B and O EX, from reviews I have read the volume is soft.
> I'am currently using the Grado GT220 and it have enough power to bleed your ears, love it but keen to see what the top B and O has to offer.


Nope.  My EX are plenty loud.  But I bleed in other ways.


----------



## erockg

BooleanBones said:


> Where did you land on this? I think mine are doing this today. Currently 7% gap between the two buds.


I don't this this is that abnormal, unless it jumps further and gets progressively worse.  I've seen this with other buds.  Might we worth a call or message to B&O though.  I'll keep an eye on my pair and report back if I see anything.  Been using them all week.


----------



## VICosPhi (May 5, 2022)

BooleanBones said:


> Where did you land on this? I think mine are doing this today. Currently 7% gap between the two buds.


Still the same with my B&O EX, 2% difference to start with (100%left, 98% right) then it gradually gets worse until it gets to 60% then it is into 7% - 9%  range.

Also seeing strange behavior with left earbud. When I take both buds out, left one doesn't play any music, right one always works fine. Have to put them both back in the case to get them both to play music.

Another strange behavior is with case. The case battery won't always update in app. In fact, it was stuck at 27% until I reset the buds and reinstalled the app.


----------



## dyh

Tenlow said:


> I already prefer the MTW3 to even the B&O EQ. Yes, there you have it. And I really (!) like the EQ. Not so much because of sound alone. Both sound excellent but in different ways. It's more that they have the much better fit for me, better ANC and that they are louder as well. Nevertheless, I personally prefer the sound signature on the MTW3 - it's just more up my alley in direct comparison. But that's of course highly subjective (as is everything here ). I almost don't want to listen to the EX anymore as I know the fit on them is much improved compared to the EQ  Good times


That's interesting. Anybody else A/Bed the MTW3 versus the Beoplay EXs, and/or the Noble Fokus?


----------



## helmutcheese (May 5, 2022)

I hope these are better than the PistonBuds PRO (I did not rate them).



*Edit:* Same lacking controls. 😔


----------



## Ceeluh7

deuter said:


> Anyone have issue with gain on the B and O EX, from reviews I have read the volume is soft.
> I'am currently using the Grado GT220 and it have enough power to bleed your ears, love it but keen to see what the top B and O has to offer.


The gt220 is one heckuva set. Yes they are thee loudest tws I've ever heard. Great tonality too.


----------



## dyh

Ceeluh7 said:


> The gt220 is one heckuva set. Yes they are thee loudest tws I've ever heard. Great tonality too.


Do you still like the Noble Fokus the best for sound quality? 

Great article on those by the way!


----------



## helmutcheese (May 5, 2022)

I got the Noble FALCON 2 last week, one of the worse earbuds purchases I have ever made, terrible so doubt i will try them again.

Bit late now to be paying £200+ for BT 5.2 QCC3040 buds as new/better tech due soon.


----------



## dyh (May 5, 2022)

helmutcheese said:


> I got the Noble FALCON 2 last week, one of the worse earbuds purchases I have ever made, terrible so doubt i will try them again.
> 
> Bit late now to be paying £200+ for BT 5.2 QCC3040 buds as new/better tech due soon.


Out of curiosity have you tried the Noble Fokus?

Personally I feel like if they really sound that good, and given the fact that they're AptX Adaptive compatible, I could see them lasting for a good long while.


----------



## helmutcheese

No as I said after those, I doubt I would even try Noble again esp. this late in the day with BT 5.3/LC3 etc due.


----------



## dyh

helmutcheese said:


> No as I said after those, I doubt I would even try Noble again esp. this late in the day with BT 5.3/LC3 etc due.


I'm not that familiar with Bluetooth 5.2 vs 5.3, but I found this article: https://www.faceofit.com/bluetooth-5-2-vs-5-3/

Which states, "If you want to speed up connection parameters for high-duty cycle applications while ensuring power conservation, then Bluetooth 5.3 is a better option.
It offers increased reliability and throughput by reducing interference occurring at the peripheral. Redundant processing is avoided. For IoT applications, Bluetooth 5.3 is a better alternative.
If you want to have efficient transactions between two or more applications simultaneously with reduced latency, then Bluetooth 5.2 is a better pick. It is a better option for optimal signal transmission with reduced power consumption.
For flawless streaming on multiple synchronized streams, Bluetooth 5.2 is a better pick. LE Audio decreases consumption of power and bandwidth, which makes Bluetooth 5.2 a better option for high-quality audio transmission."

So basically in terms of audio quality, will Bluetooth 5.3 not offer any improvement over 5.2?


----------



## helmutcheese (May 5, 2022)

Remember BT 5.2 was later to add on LE/LC3 etc well it is less confusing now as it will be called BT 5.3 so you will not need to second guess which BT 5.2 earbuds have what new features if any.

So far, the only additional feature that has come about on a very few BT 5.2 earbuds is the SnapDragon Sound 24/96 (I think this is the same as newer aptX
Adaptive 24/96 as currently is limited to 24/48) and I think it is called aptX Voice for the calls but not 100%.

https://www.soundguys.com/bluetooth-le-audio-lc3-explained-28192/

QCC305X/QCC307X are the new BT 5.3 Chipsets

https://www.qualcomm.com/media/documents/files/qcc30xx-series-product-brief.pdf

Technically BT 5.0>BT5.1>BT5.2 did not really improve the sound, some may say aptX Adaptive did, but aptX-HD is higher bitrate and so is LDAC so nothing to do with the BT version.


----------



## dyh

helmutcheese said:


> Remember BT 5.2 was later to add on LE/LC3 etc well it is less confusing now as it will be called BT 5.3 so you will not need to second guess which BT 5.2 earbuds have what new features if any.
> 
> So far, the only additional feature that has come about on a very few BT 5.2 earbuds is the SnapDragon Sound 24/96 (I think this is the same as newer aptX
> Adaptive 24/96 as currently is limited to 24/48) and I think it is called aptX Voice for the calls but not 100%.
> ...


I found this, "aptX Adaptive supports *16 and 24 bit-depths at 44.1, 48, and 96 kHz sample rates*. However actual 96KHz support is depending on actual product hardware implementation."

Going by the Noble Fokus webpage: "it is possible to transmit 24bit / 48kHz, which is equivalent to aptX HD, at the highest quality." it looks like the Fokus doesn't support the 96 KHz sampling rate, but personally I don't know if I'd use that anytime soon, since I don't think any of my FLAC files use that high sampling rate.

This article mentioning Direct Stream Digital is interesting too: https://alpha-audio.net/2021/03/qualcomm-snapdragon-sound-24-96-quality/

A long time ago I remember thinking DSD seemed like a really cool way to do high-resolution audio, although I've never used it myself, and I think the file sizes would also be too large for a cell phone, like the audio files with a 96 KHz sampling rate, at least for storing a sizable library.


----------



## erockg

dyh said:


> He did a decibel test:
> 
> Seems like the EXs would get louder than the EQs.



I have gone back and forth between the two and the EX definitely get louder.  Whatever reviewers are saying they're soft, they're out of their minds.


VICosPhi said:


> Still the same with my B&O EX, 2% difference to start with (100%left, 98% right) then it gradually gets worse until it gets to 60% then it is into 7% - 9%  range.
> 
> Also seeing strange behavior with left earbud. When I take both buds out, left one doesn't play any music, right one always works fine. Have to put them both back in the case to get them both to play music.
> 
> Another strange behavior is with case. The case battery won't always update in app. In fact, it was stuck at 27% until I reset the buds and reinstalled the app.


I had that issue with the left one once or twice since I’ve had them. I also think the battery is just a misrepresentation. I noticed that once it hits 40% after say 4 to 5 hours it will jump from 40 to 20. It must be how the number scheme works for them. I’ve seen this on other TWS.

One strange thing just happened to me earlier this evening. I was listening to music with the EX and then suddenly my left earbud dropped in volume and I could hear somebody else talking. Some sort of interference happened with the left bud and I was picking up somebody else’s call. The guy on the other end said “Who is this?”  I responded, “Hello?”  After going back-and-forth like this a few times, the guy got angry and said “What is your name?” I was like What and I quickly turned off the earbuds. 

I haven’t had this happen to me since those old wireless home phones back in the 80s and 90s.


----------



## erockg

helmutcheese said:


> No as I said after those, I doubt I would even try Noble again esp. this late in the day with BT 5.3/LC3 etc due.


I would’ve told you not to get those Noble Falcon 2 buds. That tech is old and outdated now. I’m sure it was a good deal, but definitely a major pass for me. I’m actually considering re-purchasing the Fokus again (sold mine a week ago!) because I’m concerned the Fokus ANC will not have a multiple balanced armature


----------



## dyh

erockg said:


> I have gone back and forth between the two and the EX definitely get louder.  Whatever reviewers are saying they're soft, they're out of their minds.
> 
> I had that issue with the left one once or twice since I’ve had them. I also think the battery is just a misrepresentation. I noticed that once it hits 40% after say 4 to 5 hours it will jump from 40 to 20. It must be how the number scheme works for them. I’ve seen this on other TWS.
> 
> ...


That's an interesting story. It may be worth contacting B&O to ask them about it, and see what they say.


----------



## deuter

Ceeluh7 said:


> The gt220 is one heckuva set. Yes they are thee loudest tws I've ever heard. Great tonality too.


I'd need to demo the EX to see if its really that much better, won't buy it blind.


----------



## dyh (May 6, 2022)

deuter said:


> I'd need to demo the EX to see if its really that much better, won't buy it blind.


The EXs should be available at Amazon at some point. I returned the EQs to Amazon for a refund.

Looks like you could do the same thing through B&O too: https://www.bang-olufsen.com/en/us/faq/returns


----------



## BooleanBones

erockg said:


> I have gone back and forth between the two and the EX definitely get louder.  Whatever reviewers are saying they're soft, they're out of their minds.
> 
> I had that issue with the left one once or twice since I’ve had them. I also think the battery is just a misrepresentation. I noticed that once it hits 40% after say 4 to 5 hours it will jump from 40 to 20. It must be how the number scheme works for them. I’ve seen this on other TWS.
> 
> ...


Both disturbing and hilarious at the same time


----------



## erockg

BooleanBones said:


> Both disturbing and hilarious at the same time


Yeah, you laugh!  My whole house is way too connected so I sure as hell let paranoia for a bit. Big brother, yada yada.  Sigh…


----------



## VICosPhi (May 6, 2022)

erockg said:


> I had that issue with the left one once or twice since I’ve had them. I also think the battery is just a misrepresentation. I noticed that once it hits 40% after say 4 to 5 hours it will jump from 40 to 20. It must be how the number scheme works for them. I’ve seen this on other TWS.
> 
> One strange thing just happened to me earlier this evening. I was listening to music with the EX and then suddenly my left earbud dropped in volume and I could hear somebody else talking. Some sort of interference happened with the left bud and I was picking up somebody else’s call. The guy on the other end said “Who is this?”  I responded, “Hello?”  After going back-and-forth like this a few times, the guy got angry and said “What is your name?” I was like What and I quickly turned off the earbuds.


These EX issues are not as bad as EQ issues I had, but kinda annoying at the price these sell for.

That is quite strange to not even be on a call, listening only to music and one of the buds picking up a random phone call!! I don't recall this happening to me, mostly when I am on a call I do hear random person coughing or sometimes talking as if big brother is listening to all my calls which is supposedly illegal. (but we know it is true since Snowden revelations).


----------



## dyh

VICosPhi said:


> These EX issues are not as bad as EQ issues I had, but kinda annoying at the price these sell for.
> 
> That is quite strange to not even be on a call, listening only to music and one of the buds picking up a random phone call!! I don't recall this happening to me, mostly when I am on a call I do hear random person coughing or sometimes talking as if big brother is listening to all my calls which is supposed illegal. (but we know it is true since Snowden revelations).


Who knows what the NSA is doing these days, but it seems like that would be something like the device picking up a signal it's not supposed to, rather than a wiretap.


----------



## regancipher

helmutcheese said:


> I hope these are better than the PistonBuds PRO (I did not rate them).
> 
> 
> 
> *Edit:* Same lacking controls. 😔



They look the same shape as the Color buds. That's a no from me, the only earbuds to dig into my tragus!


----------



## regancipher

Btw, I've been testing the QCY T18 this week. Interesting thing about these is that they are the first to use the QCC3050 chip, which not only supports multipoint and AptX adaptive 96k, but also supports aptX voice on Snapdragon 865+ phones, doubling the bandwidth available for calls.

Which is all well and good on paper, but in implementation, unless I've got a duff pair, they're utter crap. Bass distorts the moment you nudge it up in wavelet, it crackles in Audible unless you select 96k which is a real ballache as you can't do it in the app like you can with Edifier. I have an 865 phone and the calls are crap, no better than any average set of earbuds and some way short of Edifier NeoBuds or OnePlus Buds Pro, and no obvious way of knowing aptX voice is actually being used.

The only saving grace is the multipoint is flawless!

In fact, they're so bad I'm going to have to buy another set through Amazon and just send them back if they do the same. Both sets at this rate!


----------



## Juturna

I will for sure have some extra money in July to buy some new earbuds, anything new fun expected to drop before then? Might buy something else than earbuds but... there's always this itch to upgrade or just try something new.

If nothing new has come out I think I'm going to try the Shure TW2 adapters or Fiio UTWS3 and some IEM, but I'm undecided as of now...


----------



## dyh

Juturna said:


> I will for sure have some extra money in July to buy some new earbuds, anything new fun expected to drop before then? Might buy something else than earbuds but... there's always this itch to upgrade or just try something new.
> 
> If nothing new has come out I think I'm going to try the Shure TW2 adapters or Fiio UTWS3 and some IEM, but I'm undecided as of now...


That combo should give you the best wireless audio quality. I wonder when Shure will release the TW3.


----------



## Tommy C

I’m really enjoying the Shure TW2. 
They are very comfortable, versatile and have the features I need such as good ambient, eq, ambient while music is paused and the call quality is great too. 
Downside is the case is very bulky.


----------



## Ceeluh7

dyh said:


> Do you still like the Noble Fokus the best for sound quality?
> 
> Great article on those by the way!


Yes I do. Fantastic set... Thank you man


----------



## Ceeluh7

deuter said:


> I'd need to demo the EX to see if its really that much better, won't buy it blind.


Don't blame you... They are selling these for just waaay too much to blind buy, if of course that amount means something to you or if that type of money is just pocket change. Lol. It means something to me so... I'll wait for some of the audiophile sites to review these. I try to wait for hype to die down on stuff, unless of course curiosity gets the better of me.


----------



## Hi-fi Wigwammer (May 6, 2022)

My Fokus Pros arrived yesterday.
Finish and comfort are great. Sound signature, clarity and timbre very impressive for a TWS IEM (far superior to XM4 in that regard). They go very loud compared to other wireless sets I've tried.


----------



## helmutcheese (May 6, 2022)

erockg said:


> I would’ve told you not to get those Noble Falcon 2 buds. That tech is old and outdated now. I’m sure it was a good deal, but definitely a major pass for me. I’m actually considering re-purchasing the Fokus again (sold mine a week ago!) because I’m concerned the Fokus ANC will not have a multiple balanced armature


I asked here (no replies) if there was a revision as these are QCC3040 BT 5.2 aptX Adaptive.

*Noble Audio NOB-FALCON2-B FALCON 2*​
https://www.aptx.com/products/noble-audio-falcon2

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B08LPSRCNT/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1


----------



## mikp

VICosPhi said:


> This guy compared it and seems like AZ60 has better mic, better bass and multipoint. MTW3 have better vocals.



finally someone that mentioned codecs. Really like my mtw2 and spacious sound, so see no need to get these also. maybe the az60 if they go on sale. So wheres the tws with aptx adaptive and ldac.


----------



## Tommy C

helmutcheese said:


> I hope these are better than the PistonBuds PRO (I did not rate them).
> 
> 
> 
> *Edit:* Same lacking controls. 😔



It’s a very interesting product IMHO and the price is right especially with the current $30 off promo. 
Personally I could live without the skip track if the sound quality is top notch.


----------



## erockg

helmutcheese said:


> I asked here (no replies) if there was a revision as these are QCC3040 BT 5.2 aptX Adaptive.
> 
> *Noble Audio NOB-FALCON2-B FALCON 2*​
> https://www.aptx.com/products/noble-audio-falcon2
> ...


All I know is that the Falcon 2 came out late 2020 to replace the Falcon 1 and they're Noble's entry level TWS.  Pretty sure they're not even selling them anymore on Nobleaudio.com.  I've read and heard that they're not as good as the Fokus Pro as far as sound.  But that said, I've never owned them, only the Falcon Pro and Fokus Pro to date.  Not sure if this helps, but I tried


----------



## erockg

Tommy C said:


> It’s a very interesting product IMHO and the price is right especially with the current $30 off promo.
> Personally I could live without the skip track if the sound quality is top notch.


I keep trying 1More buds and then wind up either never using them or returning them.  Been reading about these but just can't do it... yet.


----------



## BigZ12

Sony Linkbuds S?
https://www.notebookcheck.net/Sony-...g-resemblance-to-the-WF-1000XM4.615061.0.html


----------



## helmutcheese

^^ Yea they have been posted a good few pages back, I did not like the XM4's so these will be no good to me.


----------



## BigZ12

helmutcheese said:


> ^^ Yea they have been posted a good few pages back, I did not like the XM4's so these will be no good to me.


I searched the thread, but didn't found anything about the "closed back" S version.
Just saw it surfaced on many sites yesterday and today.
Not for me either I guess. Waiting for my MTW3...


----------



## jant71 (May 6, 2022)

helmutcheese said:


> I hope these are better than the PistonBuds PRO (I did not rate them).
> 
> 
> 
> *Edit:* Same lacking controls. 😔



...and lacking some codecs as well. Still name dropping that same Luca Bignardi crap. Stop your LB tuned buds just aren't tuned that great and people in the know are not impressed by that anymore. They are not really tuned for anything but a SoundID starting point. 1More with another almost but fell short again model?? Buuut, the $139 deal with the charging pad is not a bad price. If they are an "almost" to the EQ, Sony, and Senn it isn't like you are paying $250. Need to be better than the Edifier Neobuds S version though.


helmutcheese said:


> I got the Noble FALCON 2 last week, one of the worse earbuds purchases I have ever made, terrible so doubt i will try them again.
> 
> Bit late now to be paying £200+ for BT 5.2 QCC3040 buds as new/better tech due soon.


Surprised nobody warned you away. Only buy a Noble with Pro in the name and skip the growing pains models where they were still working crap out.  Oh and Falcon Pro should be at a nice discount. Above $250 and closer to the FoKus Pro - just spend the extra for the FoKus.


----------



## scubaphish

helmutcheese said:


> ^^ Yea they have been posted a good few pages back, I did not like the XM4's so these will be no good to me.


That’s how I feel about the XM4, then I come across Sony refurb and think…. maybe I was wrong; should I try again😂?


----------



## DDDYKI

VICosPhi said:


> This guy compared it and seems like AZ60 has better mic, better bass and multipoint. MTW3 have better vocals.



Thanks for posting that. Seems that he also likes the ANC of the MTW3 better than the Technics, too. But I think I'd rather take the addition of LDAC in the Technics than the better ANC of the MTW3.


----------



## Tommy C

erockg said:


> I keep trying 1More buds and then wind up either never using them or returning them.  Been reading about these but just can't do it... yet.


I have faith in you.


----------



## erockg

Tommy C said:


> I have faith in you.


I'm very unpredictable these days!


----------



## cresny

erockg said:


> I keep trying 1More buds and then wind up either never using them or returning them.  Been reading about these but just can't do it... yet.


Sure, but at least they live up to their name, just 1 more pair 🙂


----------



## erockg

cresny said:


> Sure, but at least they live up to their name, just 1 more pair 🙂


*rimshot


----------



## deuter

Hi-fi Wigwammer said:


> My Fokus Pros arrived yesterday.
> Finish and comfort are great. Sound signature, clarity and timbre very impressive for a TWS IEM (far superior to XM4 in that regard). They go very loud compared to other wireless sets I've tried.


Need more details, what TWS apart from XM4 have you compared to?
What is the volume level you are using?
Ask is this the first TWS with 3 drivers each channe?


----------



## jant71

erockg said:


> I'm very unpredictable these days!


Out of control! Bought a Creative just to see what the fit is like in anticipation on the Noble.


----------



## erockg

jant71 said:


> Out of control! Bought a Creative just to see what the fit is like in anticipation on the Noble.


Okay, one day I need to see a pic of all your chi-fi buds!!!!!


----------



## jant71

erockg said:


> Okay, one day I need to see a pic of all your chi-fi buds!!!!!



Chi-Fi buds me?  I have had 4. Bluedio Hi(my first TWS), ANC 704(the $3.68 after discounts one), the Sabbat E16 and the Meeture/Simgot. I do have a BQeyz Z3 two-pin BT cable as well.


----------



## tombrisbane

So I wasn’t going to get the MTW3, but they don’t release until the 10th here but a local shop had stock today, needless to say I did what had to be done 😬


----------



## Widell

tombrisbane said:


> So I wasn’t going to get the MTW3, but they don’t release until the 10th here but a local shop had stock today, needless to say I did what had to be done 😬


We have all been there….how do they sound?


----------



## tombrisbane

Widell said:


> how do they sound?


Just picked them up now - on my way home to charge.


----------



## Tenlow

tombrisbane said:


> So I wasn’t going to get the MTW3, but they don’t release until the 10th here but a local shop had stock today, needless to say I did what had to be done 😬


Finally, someone else 👍 

Intrigued what you will report. I really do like them very much.


----------



## BooleanBones

Tenlow said:


> Finally, someone else 👍
> 
> Intrigued what you will report. I really do like them very much.


We are not privy yet in the Us


----------



## dyh

jant71 said:


> Out of control! Bought a Creative just to see what the fit is like in anticipation on the Noble.


So the Creative Earphones seem to have the same shell as the Noble Fokus H-ANC, right? Any user thoughts on the Creative Earphones yet?


----------



## jant71 (May 6, 2022)

dyh said:


> So the Creative Earphones seem to have the same shell as the Noble Fokus H-ANC, right? Any user thoughts on the Creative Earphones yet?


One person in here mentioned that the sound is on the warm and consumer side and not quite as balanced as before and the overall volume is less than previous V3.  The review erockg linked to had some issues. Think I remember sub par ambient the most from that one and the large case which is heavier than before. Nothing special for ambient or sound or even the ANC. Obviously erockg didn't buy them cause they are a great bang for the buck overachiever that everyone needs to run out and buy! We know why.


----------



## jant71

BooleanBones said:


> We are not privy yet in the Us


The Senn Sport is out. We can buy that one!


----------



## erockg

dyh said:


> So the Creative Earphones seem to have the same shell as the Noble Fokus H-ANC, right? Any user thoughts on the Creative Earphones yet?


They definitely do have the same shell.  You know I posted this a few pages ago .  The Creative Outlier Pro aren't that bad at all.  I have mine in hand now.  ANC is eh, you really need a good tips/seal to get any ANC.  But the fit is just awesome.  Just like the Bragi Dash Pro TWS.  Looks like the same bottom shell mold.  So they remolded the top part to add ANC mics maybe.  Who knows!


----------



## erockg

jant71 said:


> The Senn Sport is out. We can buy that one!


Noooooo... although I have a feeling the MTW3 are pretty much a similar shell to the CX series.  I'll have the 3s next week sometime.  Zero expectations, maybe that's a good thing!


----------



## erockg

BooleanBones said:


> We are not privy yet in the Us


5/10!!!!!


----------



## erockg (May 6, 2022)

jant71 said:


> One person in here mentioned that the sound is on the warm and consumer side and not quite as balanced as before and the overall volume is less than previous V3.  The review erockg linked to had some issues. Think I remember sub par ambient the most from that one and the large case which is heavier than before. Nothing special for ambient or sound or even the ANC. Obviously erockg didn't buy them cause they are a great bang for the buck overachiever that everyone needs to run out and buy! We know why.


Yeah, I bought them because a stupid wild hair crept up my @!!.  That said, they're friggin loud!  I don't know what people are talking about.  I'm cranking them and they have power with my iPhone.  I also messed with the EQ best I could using BGGAs Clairvoyance graph.  Really helps.  Listening to the new Ghost album and it sounds pretty damn good for an $79 bud.  I'll report back after a few days, hours, maybe even seconds.


----------



## tombrisbane (May 6, 2022)

Fit on the MTW3 is pretty great for me, mids are more forward on initial listen compared to the MTW2, certainly an improvement.  Gonna have to A/B against my Beoplay EX, I think the MTW3 are a little darker and less resolving then the EX from two tracks, bass texture seems nicer to my ears though.  Early days, thankfully I have the weekend to give them a good listen!  I’ll no doubt end up keeping both along with my plethora of other TW buds lol.


----------



## VICosPhi

tombrisbane said:


> Fit on the MTW3 is pretty great for me, mids are more forward on initial listen compared to the MTW2, certainly an improvement.  Gonna have to A/B against my Beoplay EX, I think the MTW3 are a little darker and less resolving then the EX from two tracks, bass texture seems nicer to my ears though.  Early days, thankfully I have the weekend to give them a good listen!  I’ll no doubt end up keeping both along with my plethora of other TW buds lol.


WOW and I thought EX were dark sounding. Interestingly, a couple YouTube reviewers (shortcircuit being one) complained that MTW3 are too bright!! All this makes me just lean towards my AZ60s more. These AZ60s tick every box minus wireless charging.


DDDYKI said:


> Thanks for posting that. Seems that he also likes the ANC of the MTW3 better than the Technics, too. But I think I'd rather take the addition of LDAC in the Technics than the better ANC of the MTW3.


Yeah, me too... I think AZ60 are hard to beat overall. And even though he says ANC is better on MTW3, yet apparently MTW3 do not have a slider for ANC level control...it is just "adaptive" like what Apple would do


----------



## tombrisbane

VICosPhi said:


> WOW and I thought EX were dark sounding.


Could just be my initial track choices. Will run through a good list today.


----------



## helmutcheese




----------



## dweaver

Well the Spinfit CP360 sure have helped me like the AZ60 more. They sure bring out the mids and treble. I started to appreciate the brighter sound with the Fiio FH5 and were one of the reasons I struggled listening to the AZ60, the spinfits completely fix that.

Already started the return process for the Jabra Elite 7. Just were not my cup of tea.


----------



## helmutcheese (May 7, 2022)

You are going to lose much of the ANC performance (if you have good hearing) with Spinfits as they are too thin (not dense enough) but as you have found they can make buds sound better.

Have you tried any of the ALZA SednaEarfit range?


----------



## dweaver (May 7, 2022)

Not yet but might try them next. Will also revisit the Sony hybrid tips.

The spinfits also made the AZ60 a bit more comfy.

I do notice the ANC is a bit less but for my needs possibly good enough.


----------



## dyh

Any thoughts on the comments regarding connectivity issues, etc., in some of these Noble Fokus reviews?

https://bloomaudio.com/products/noble-fokus-pro

https://audio46.com/products/noble-audio-fokus-pro-true-wireless-iems

Are the connectivity issues just with iPhones, or can they occur with Android phones too?

If there are any issues, Noble Audio will work to resolve the situation, right?


----------



## Beh0lder

Doubtful since they acknowledged Falcon Pro's case idle battery drainage with a simple "oops" followed by "other TWS also exhibit this behaviour". Narrator's voice : "they don't". At least not in FPs price range


----------



## dyh

Beh0lder said:


> Doubtful since they acknowledged Falcon Pro's case idle battery drainage with a simple "oops" followed by "other TWS also exhibit this behaviour". Narrator's voice : "they don't". At least not in FPs price range


One of the reviewers said, "I think I have also had issues charging them once placing a case refusing to either take a charge or continuing to stay connected to whatever device they have been previously paired with. I contacted the company and they were very amazing in sending me a brand new case to try to resolve the issue, however the connectivity between the buds is unbearable and I’m currently seeking a fix with the company."

I think all of the reviews describing connectivity issues that I've seen have been with iPhones, and I use Android phones. 

Has anybody experienced connectivity issues, or any other problems with the Noble Fokus Pros?


----------



## Beh0lder

That reviewer's issue is charging related and may have been caused by a hardware issue. Idle battery drainage was adressed as such:


FullCircle said:


> I have other tws built by other companies, and they also have that trickle drain even if my IEMs are not being used.   I not fond of that fact, just saying it must not be only specific to Noble.


I've yet to come across a TWS case being a screen-less tamagotchi, essentially forcing me to play a game of "is my Falcon Pro dead already after not being used for a few days?". Meanwhile my random nameless chifi buds I found under a hotel bed holds a charge for months.


----------



## Ceeluh7

dyh said:


> Any thoughts on the comments regarding connectivity issues, etc., in some of these Noble Fokus reviews?
> 
> https://bloomaudio.com/products/noble-fokus-pro
> 
> ...


I have yet to have any connections issues with the fokus pro. So far it has been rock solid


----------



## Caipirina

So, Mr. Always-late-to-the-Party finally caved in and got those AZ60 .. and yes, the hype is real! Not sure why I did not recognize them for what they are when I tested them briefly at e-earphone a few months back ... ah well, this way I got a fair / used price at HardOff  

Next I guess will be the MTW3 ... still waiting for a chance to check then out, they will be released here on the 20th ... 

Fun fact, I was checking where Sennheiser actually have their HQ in Germany .. and it is only 1h away from where I grew up  

As for those 1more EVO .. I think I will sit those out .. I have more 1more stuff than I need, the pistons pro and the azure comfobuds pro hardly get any playtime. The minis are kinda fun, but still a smidge too big for side sleeping .. and the ComfoZ are crapping on the battery front ... I have been using them nealry nightly for half year now and left side can only play for about an hour now ... supposed to go longer with the pre-stored soothing sounds via BLE, but those are 'eh' ...  I wish they come with an updated version of the Z which bigger battery (in same form factor)


----------



## alchemical

erockg said:


> I love mine too.  I agree, they do need a firmware update for the transparency on/off and volume controls.  I don't even think there has been a firmware update since release. Could be wrong.  Force pair is nice, even though I'd prefer multi-pair like the Beoplay EX & EQ and now the M&D MW08.  I used mine all day today at work with transparency on while listening to music and baseball games.  Fit is really good for me too with the EPro tips.  I don't hear the sibilance you hear, but I do hear great sound separation and clarity whereas a lot of my dynamic driver tws lack it in comparison.  For the sale price, these are worth a shot.  Truly looking forward to the next gen.


How do you rate the EX against the PI7? Big fan of the latter and considering taking the plunge on the B&Os.


----------



## erockg

alchemical said:


> How do you rate the EX against the PI7? Big fan of the latter and considering taking the plunge on the B&Os.


I really like them both.  It's a hard call.  I think the EX have a bigger soundstage and maybe have an edge because of the EQ.  You can definitely hear more instrument separation with the PI7, but the EX are no slouch.  I've been using them both on Zooms, phone calls and watching shows.  Both are great.  EX have much more battery life.  One think to consider, although it doesn't happen often, but it is still happening... when the left bud is in the case for a long time, hours, it won't immediately connect when I take both buds out.  I have to put the L bud back in the case and then it wakes.  Hoping B&O pushes out a firmware update to address this.  It's annoying.


----------



## alchemical

erockg said:


> I really like them both.  It's a hard call.  I think the EX have a bigger soundstage and maybe have an edge because of the EQ.  You can definitely hear more instrument separation with the PI7, but the EX are no slouch.  I've been using them both on Zooms, phone calls and watching shows.  Both are great.  EX have much more battery life.  One think to consider, although it doesn't happen often, but it is still happening... when the left bud is in the case for a long time, hours, it won't immediately connect when I take both buds out.  I have to put the L bud back in the case and then it wakes.  Hoping B&O pushes out a firmware update to address this.  It's annoying.


Appreciate the impressions, mate, cheers!


----------



## BooleanBones

erockg said:


> I really like them both.  It's a hard call.  I think the EX have a bigger soundstage and maybe have an edge because of the EQ.  You can definitely hear more instrument separation with the PI7, but the EX are no slouch.  I've been using them both on Zooms, phone calls and watching shows.  Both are great.  EX have much more battery life.  One think to consider, although it doesn't happen often, but it is still happening... when the left bud is in the case for a long time, hours, it won't immediately connect when I take both buds out.  I have to put the L bud back in the case and then it wakes.  Hoping B&O pushes out a firmware update to address this.  It's annoying.


.... and the EX are IP57. Big selling point for me in case I fall out of my floatie.


----------



## FullCircle

Beh0lder said:


> That reviewer's issue is charging related and may have been caused by a hardware issue. Idle battery drainage was adressed as such:
> 
> I've yet to come across a TWS case being a screen-less tamagotchi, essentially forcing me to play a game of "is my Falcon Pro dead already after not being used for a few days?". Meanwhile my random nameless chifi buds I found under a hotel bed holds a charge for months.



The Falcon Pro was launched in 2020, the Fokus Pro launched in 2022. The Fokus Pro doesn't have the battery trickle down characteristic as the Falcon Pro has.

Some say the sound & the app of the Fokus Pro is better than Falcon Pro, that said the phone feature of the Falcon Pro is better than the Fokus Pro.

Life is a series of choices  & compromises, portable audio is no different.


----------



## jant71 (May 7, 2022)

FullCircle said:


> The Falcon Pro was launched in 2020, the Fokus Pro launched in 2022. The Fokus Pro doesn't have the battery trickle down characteristic as the Falcon Pro has.
> 
> Some say the sound & the app of the Fokus Pro is better than Falcon Pro, that said the phone feature of the Falcon Pro is better than the Fokus Pro.
> 
> Life is a series of choices  & compromises, portable audio is no different.



Speaking of choices, what is the deal with the Falcon ANC and Fokus H ANC?? What are going to be the differences and things we need to know to make a choice between them and the competition??


----------



## Not so fat head

Received my PI7’s today.  Can’t wait to open, charge and then it’s go time….
I’ll be using the case to add BT to my Samsung TV…

Ordered them on B&W website..  took only 4 days to receive 👍

$299 US with free shopping


----------



## Not so fat head

Not so fat head said:


> Received my PI7’s today.  Can’t wait to open, charge and then it’s go time….
> I’ll be using the case to add BT to my Samsung TV…
> 
> Ordered them on B&W website..  took only 4 days to receive 👍
> ...


BTW: the retransmission should also work with my B&W PX’s…


----------



## jant71

Not so fat head said:


> $299 US with free shopping



Wait if it was free shopping how did they cost $299????


----------



## Not so fat head

jant71 said:


> Wait if it was free shopping how did they cost $299????


Ha!!!
I’m the typo king….  Although I’ll blame this one on Apple…
It’s algorithm often replaces the word I typed, with whatever the $&?@ it wants..  😃


----------



## Caipirina

Not so fat head said:


> Ha!!!
> I’m the typo king….  Although I’ll blame this one on Apple…
> It’s algorithm often replaces the word I typed, with whatever the $&?@ it wants..  😃


It ducking does that! 

sent from my iPhone


----------



## erockg

alchemical said:


> Appreciate the impressions, mate, cheers!


Happy to help, or not


----------



## erockg

FullCircle said:


> The Falcon Pro was launched in 2020, the Fokus Pro launched in 2022. The Fokus Pro doesn't have the battery trickle down characteristic as the Falcon Pro has.
> 
> Some say the sound & the app of the Fokus Pro is better than Falcon Pro, that said the phone feature of the Falcon Pro is better than the Fokus Pro.
> 
> Life is a series of choices  & compromises, portable audio is no different.


Choices and Compromises?  Just like marriage.


----------



## FullCircle

erockg said:


> Choices and Compromises?  Just like marriage.


Or the avoidance of


----------



## erockg

FullCircle said:


> Or the avoidance of


Whatever works!


----------



## samandhi

erockg said:


> Choices and Compromises?  Just like marriage.


Learn something new everyday. I have always thought it was her way, or no way... I guess that IS a choice huh?


----------



## erockg

samandhi said:


> Learn something new everyday. I have always thought it was her way, or no way... I guess that IS a choice huh?


HAHA!  You're 100% correct.  For a minute, I forgot I was living in the real world.


----------



## dyh

Beh0lder said:


> That reviewer's issue is charging related and may have been caused by a hardware issue. Idle battery drainage was adressed as such:
> 
> I've yet to come across a TWS case being a screen-less tamagotchi, essentially forcing me to play a game of "is my Falcon Pro dead already after not being used for a few days?". Meanwhile my random nameless chifi buds I found under a hotel bed holds a charge for months.


In addition to whatever charging issue he had, he also said, "the connection between the two earbuds is awful. When listening to music sometimes it’s like snack cracklin pop go inside the earbuds and are having a party as far as the Bluetooth connectivity between each year bud.", and "however the connectivity between the buds is unbearable and I’m currently seeking a fix with the company."

It seems like some users can have this problem, and I'm hoping it doesn't affect Android phones, since I've only seen iPhones, and audio file specific players, mentioned with these reviews.

So everybody here who's tried the Noble Fokus has had good connectivity with them?


----------



## helmutcheese

Sound like the Falcon 2's then as same QCC3040 Chipset, I cannot walk out the room and into the kitchen (on any device and any Codec), the worse range I have ever had on any earbuds even BT 4.1 versions and sometimes they simply disconnect for no reason.


----------



## dyh

FullCircle said:


> The Falcon Pro was launched in 2020, the Fokus Pro launched in 2022. The Fokus Pro doesn't have the battery trickle down characteristic as the Falcon Pro has.
> 
> Some say the sound & the app of the Fokus Pro is better than Falcon Pro, that said the phone feature of the Falcon Pro is better than the Fokus Pro.
> 
> Life is a series of choices  & compromises, portable audio is no different.


That's great that the battery drain problem won't affect the Fokus Pros.

I thought the Fokus Pros were released in 2021. Has the hardware or anything been updated in 2022?

And any thoughts on the connectivity issues some users can experience?

I'm keeping my fingers crossed that my pair of the Fokus Pros will be rock solid like Ceeluh7s!


----------



## dyh

helmutcheese said:


> Sound like the Falcon 2's then as same QCC3040 Chipset, I cannot walk out the room and into the kitchen (on any device and any Codec), the worse range I have ever had on any earbuds even BT 4.1 versions and sometimes they simply disconnect for no reason.


Aren't there a lot of Earphones that use the QCC3040 Chipset? Are there known issues with the QCC3040?

Hopefully I won't have to worry about anything, but I'd like to get clarity on why some people have problems with the Fokus Pros.


----------



## FullCircle

dyh said:


> That's great that the battery drain problem won't affect the Fokus Pros.
> 
> I thought the Fokus Pros were released in 2021. Has the hardware or anything been updated in 2022?
> 
> ...



The Fokus Pro, if I remember correctly, was announced in Sept of 2021 I'm not sure when shipment began (I assume 2022).

If say there was an issue, those issues would be addressed ASAP.


----------



## helmutcheese (May 7, 2022)

dyh said:


> Aren't there a lot of Earphones that use the QCC3040 Chipset? Are there known issues with the QCC3040?
> 
> Hopefully I won't have to worry about anything, but I'd like to get clarity on why some people have problems with the Fokus Pros.


Yes, it is a common mid-range at best Chipset widely used by now, but I meant Nobles implementation of it will not vary from one of their earbud's models to another only the better drivers etc, it could be poor Antenna.


----------



## dyh

FullCircle said:


> The Fokus Pro, if I remember correctly, was announced in Sept of 2021 I'm not sure when shipment began (I assume 2022).
> 
> If say there was an issue, those issues would be addressed ASAP.


Awesome! Great to know that any issues would be addressed ASAP!


----------



## erockg

dyh said:


> Awesome! Great to know that any issues would be addressed ASAP!


Dude, just get them.  I promise you won't be disappointed by the sound.  They are top notch


----------



## FullCircle (May 8, 2022)

dyh said:


> Awesome! Great to know that any issues would be addressed ASAP!



Any issues within reason, for example, leaving them in your pockets and putting them through a wash cycle isn't something that we could address.


----------



## dyh

helmutcheese said:


> Yes, it is a common mid-range at best Chipset widely used by now, but I meant Nobles implementation of it will not vary from one of their earbud's models to another only the better drivers etc, it could be poor Antenna.


Yeah, I don't know, but going by those reviews it seems the user experience is mixed, especially regarding connectivity. Some people seem to have issues, and some seem to not have issues.

I don't need a million mile range, but a decent range would be good.


----------



## dyh

erockg said:


> Dude, just get them.  I promise you won't be disappointed by the sound.  They are top notch


I did! They're currently on the way, so I'm looking forward to it!


----------



## helmutcheese

Yes, it is nice to be able to take a 💩💩💩 or make cup of tea and keep listening! 😁


----------



## erockg

helmutcheese said:


> Yes, it is nice to be able to take a 💩💩💩 or make cup of tea and keep listening! 😁


Most have range unless it's 2015.  Whew, I remember the old Earin or first gen Bragi Dash and they drove me nuts.  But it was nice knowing what the future held!


----------



## FSTOP

I received my FoKus Pro a few weeks ago, and unfortunately couldn't get the right bud to connect (it worked perfectly with pairing process, but no sound out of right side). Cannot rule out an issue with my phone (kinda old Note9), as I've had some BT issues lately in car, but it's worked fine with other tws and very many BT speakers (I design/build my own). And, it also was not a great fit, but I feared that because my ears are small and maybe wierd. I'll say the Noble fp are probably the best, and definitely the most beautiful, tws I've seen, so I think they'd be great for most people, so not intending to make a negative statement or review of them (the left earbud SQ seemed as it would be very good, but hard to judge without full stereo). Hoping some day they can cram all that tech and multi-drivers in an even smaller shell though that will fit my small ears.


----------



## helmutcheese

It would surprise you even today's models, I live in a house with 3 feet thick sandstone walls and internal red brick walls.


----------



## dyh

FullCircle said:


> Any issues within reason, for example, leaving them in your pockets and putting then through a wash cycle isn't something that we could address.


That would never happen. All I'm looking for is the product to work as it's intended to. 

So far I haven't had any real issues to speak of, with any of the numerous TWS Earphones I've tested, so hopefully the Fokus Pros will be fine, and I'm really curious about this stellar sound that people keep mentioning!


----------



## dyh

FSTOP said:


> I received my FoKus Pro a few weeks ago, and unfortunately couldn't get the right bud to connect (it worked perfectly with pairing process, but no sound out of right side). Cannot rule out an issue with my phone (kinda old Note9), as I've had some BT issues lately in car, but it's worked fine with other tws and very many BT speakers (I design/build my own). And, it also was not a great fit, but I feared that because my ears are small and maybe wierd. I'll say the Noble fp are probably the best, and definitely the most beautiful, tws I've seen, so I think they'd be great for most people, so not intending to make a negative statement or review of them (the left earbud SQ seemed as it would be very good, but hard to judge without full stereo). Hoping some day they can cram all that tech and multi-drivers in an even smaller shell though that will fit my small ears.


Seems like that may be a defective unit, if your phone works with other TWS Earphones. Did you test the Fokus Pros with any other devices?

That's too bad about the sizing issue. Fit definitely seems to be one of the most individualistic things when it comes to earphones.


----------



## FullCircle

erockg said:


> Dude, just get them.  I promise you won't be disappointed by the sound.  They are top notch



Yes, I know the price can cause hesitation, but think about all the layers of business/costs a tws goes through by the time it reaches the consumers hands.

Parts have margins placed on them

The subcontracted oe manufacturer has margin

The manufacturer/brand has margin

The distributor has margin

The dealer has margin

Shipping has margin


Considering all the above, the parts used in a budget tws, I would imagine would = a fraction of the shelf price.

The point is, one can expect superior parts to be used in a $300+ boutique level tws. (One can only hope and I can really only speak for Noble)

 We operate in smaller volumes, use quality parts, and have slim margins. But this is our competitive strategy, do what other companies are not willing to do. We chip away on the side lines, and by doing so our products hold their own against larger companies.

Its a slow slog, but it's what we do.


----------



## helmutcheese

The price is a hell of a lot today this late in the day for a mid-range chipset about to be superseded by one that can do 24/96 and have SnapDragon Sound etc., it is a no go for me.


----------



## FullCircle

helmutcheese said:


> Yes, it is nice to be able to take a 💩💩💩 or make cup of tea and keep listening! 😁



Agreed, also working on the car, or using them as I cut wood etc.  They really are part of my routine as I build IEMs.


----------



## dyh (May 7, 2022)

helmutcheese said:


> The price is a hell of a lot today this late in the day for a mid-range chipset about to be superseded by one that can do 24/96 and have SnapDragon Sound etc., it is a no go for me.


I'm sure better chipsets are on the horizon, but I wonder if 96 KHz would really be beneficial for TWS Earphones, especially with the technology at this point in time. I'd think that wired earphones would be preferable for such high sampling rates, but I'd be curious to know if the new Snapdragon Sound spec will make a noticeable difference for TWS.

I think a 24 bit depth, and a 48 KHz sampling rate, is still a pretty high level of resolution.

And like it was mentioned previously in this thread, even with the new Snapdragon Sound chipset, if the rest of the parts aren't quality, then the product as a whole isn't going to cut it, i.e.:



regancipher said:


> Btw, I've been testing the QCY T18 this week. Interesting thing about these is that they are the first to use the QCC3050 chip, which not only supports multipoint and AptX adaptive 96k, but also supports aptX voice on Snapdragon 865+ phones, doubling the bandwidth available for calls.
> 
> Which is all well and good on paper, but in implementation, unless I've got a duff pair, they're utter crap. Bass distorts the moment you nudge it up in wavelet, it crackles in Audible unless you select 96k which is a real ballache as you can't do it in the app like you can with Edifier. I have an 865 phone and the calls are crap, no better than any average set of earbuds and some way short of Edifier NeoBuds or OnePlus Buds Pro, and no obvious way of knowing aptX voice is actually being used.
> 
> ...


----------



## helmutcheese (May 7, 2022)

Well yes and we already have LDAC that is 24/96 but it is still lossy and aptX Adaptive is 24/96 on the new Chipsets (up from 24/48) and even then, it is not as good as wired even if it was 24/192k (LDAC will support someday) it would still be lossy due to compression/conversion.

They claim the new chipsets will give up "more actual CD like sound"

Amazon Music HD sounds pretty good on my PC at 24/192k (Wired) via FiiO FH7's and over BT with LDAC (BTA 30 PRO+FiiO Neckband+FH3's) though it is limited to 24/96.


----------



## dyh

helmutcheese said:


> Well yes and we already have LDAC that is 24/96 but it is still lossy and aptX Adaptive is 24/96 on the new Chipsets (up from 24/48) and even then, it is not as good as wired even if it was 24/192k (LDAC will support someday) it would still be lossy due to compression/conversion.
> 
> They claim the new chipsets will give up "more actual CD like sound"
> 
> Amazon Music HD sounds pretty good on my PC at 24/192k (Wired) via FiiO FH7's and over BT with LDAC (BTA 30 PRO+FiiO Neckband+FH3's) though it is limited to 24/96.


I guess it won't be long now if the QCC3050 Chipset is coming on the market.

It'll be interesting to see how products using the QCC3050 compete with the sound quality of products like the Noble Fokus Pros.

I would be interested in checking out the Geekfly gf10s, but those don't even have AptX compatibility.


----------



## helmutcheese (May 8, 2022)

Quite a fairly priced mid-range earbuds used the flagship Chipset not the QCC3040, it was QCC51XX or such Ally Cleer and Tronsmart even used them.

So far, the earbuds I have seen that claim to be out soon are using the QCC3056 Chipset, AFAIR it needs be the QCC307X to support LE audio.


----------



## JoshG1217

Toom said:


> Do you have a link got the AS tips? I may have some already, but will need to check. Can't wait got my Fokus Pros to arrive....


AZLA SednaEarfit 2 Pairs (Size MS) https://www.amazon.com/dp/B083GFWXYB/ref=cm_sw_r_apan_i_AES9GQSV4WTZDNX6C01X?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1


----------



## JoshG1217

BooleanBones said:


> Personally, I will be keeping my Fokus Pro, XM4s, and AKG N400s (yardwork). Might keep my AZ60s too, but that will be a future decision. What am I saying, everything is for sale for the right price


All solid choices, but my fokus don't fit great. The large nozzle is uncomfortable so I'll be letting mine go.


----------



## dyh

JoshG1217 said:


> All solid choices, but my fokus don't fit great. The large nozzle is uncomfortable so I'll be letting mine go.


Anybody else have an opinion on the fit of the Noble Fokus Pros?

From what I've seen, most of the reviewers said they're comfortable, but the last 2 comments here haven't been positive for comfort. Is discomfort more likely for users with smaller ears?


----------



## deuter

The fitment is really an issue, this is the reason we need custom TWS.
When is someone making one?


----------



## dyh

deuter said:


> The fitment is really an issue, this is the reason we need custom TWS.
> When is someone making one?


I can't remember if you said you've tried the Noble Fokus Pros, or do you just mean fit is an issue in general, without custom molds?


----------



## Beh0lder

deuter said:


> The fitment is really an issue, this is the reason we need custom TWS.
> When is someone making one?


Noble said they can make a Prestige model, but it wouldn't be a Fokus Pro IIRC


----------



## Beh0lder

Can anyone with the XM4s, AZ60s and the momentum TW3 make a group foto to compare size? Sony are quite big, technics too and the sennheisers are smaller if I'm right?


----------



## Devodonaldson

dyh said:


> Anybody else have an opinion on the fit of the Noble Fokus Pros?
> 
> From what I've seen, most of the reviewers said they're comfortable, but the last 2 comments here haven't been positive for comfort. Is discomfort more likely for users with smaller ears?


Tips make the largest difference. Some tip brands are more comfortable than others. I can use tips that came with, but become uncomfortable after an hour. Better long term feel with spiral dots or  the tips that came with my Audeze Euclid. Love the Fokus Pro. Deeper fit than XM4, so tip choice means a lot. Sound better than my Falcon Pro as well.


----------



## deuter

dyh said:


> I can't remember if you said you've tried the Noble Fokus Pros, or do you just mean fit is an issue in general, without custom molds?


Having used custom iems in the past, nothing beats the fit and passive noise canceling.
The cable is the real issue as I use an iPhone for my music which is mainly Spotify and YouTube at times.


----------



## Ckro

Quick question to Pi7 owners: I have small auditory canals and the fit with the Sony XM3 was not great at all. Would the Pi7 be a good fit for my small ears ? Thanks !


----------



## erockg

Ckro said:


> Quick question to Pi7 owners: I have small auditory canals and the fit with the Sony XM3 was not great at all. Would the Pi7 be a good fit for my small ears ? Thanks !


For me, it's a smaller less intrusive fit.  I put on some ePro tips and they seal nicely.  They definitely do not go deep into your canal like some.  I always hated the fit of the XM3.  They did fix that issue with the XM4.  If you can, pick up the PI7 from someplace with a great return policy, like Amazon.  I love mine, just wish they had volume controls and the ability to go from ANC to Transparency with a tap of a button.  Can't control these things.  But they're great sounding buds and I use mine often.


----------



## Ckro

Many thanks for the feedback, I'll pull the trigger then


----------



## erockg

FullCircle said:


> Yes, I know the price can cause hesitation, but think about all the layers of business/costs a tws goes through by the time it reaches the consumers hands.
> 
> Parts have margins placed on them
> 
> ...


You don't have to convince me.  It's the other guy   I'm just curious about the driver config in the Fokus H-ANC.


----------



## Asoares99

Ckro said:


> Quick question to Pi7 owners: I have small auditory canals and the fit with the Sony XM3 was not great at all. Would the Pi7 be a good fit for my small ears ? Thanks !





Ckro said:


> Quick question to Pi7 owners: I have small auditory canals and the fit with the Sony XM3 was not great at all. Would the Pi7 be a good fit for my small ears ? Thanks !


I believe you will be OK with the Pi7, I have several tws and none fits me so well as the PI7. No pain in my ears, low insertion and a great isolation. I try several but I always come back to them and I love the sound also, I can say those are my actual favorite


----------



## Bhelpoori

Caipirina said:


> So, Mr. Always-late-to-the-Party finally caved in and got those AZ60 .. and yes, the hype is real! Not sure why I did not recognize them for what they are when I tested them briefly at e-earphone a few months back ... ah well, this way I got a fair / used price at HardOff
> 
> Next I guess will be the MTW3 ... still waiting for a chance to check then out, they will be released here on the 20th ...
> 
> ...


I have the 1More Evos which I just bought today. Once I charge and play with them a bit I’ll let you know more. 

Initial impressions of the case, style and comfort are good. The software update went very smoothly. I’m hopeful these will be at least as good as the L3Pro which I like but after being my daily driver for 5 months the wingtips don’t stay and are now uncomfortable, with the resulting decrease in ANC and sound quality. 

More in about a day.


----------



## Tommy C

Bhelpoori said:


> I have the 1More Evos which I just bought today. Once I charge and play with them a bit I’ll let you know more.
> 
> Initial impressions of the case, style and comfort are good. The software update went very smoothly. I’m hopeful these will be at least as good as the L3Pro which I like but after being my daily driver for 5 months the wingtips don’t stay and are now uncomfortable, with the resulting decrease in ANC and sound quality.
> 
> More in about a day.


Awesome! Looking forward to your impressions.


----------



## JoshG1217

dyh said:


> Anybody else have an opinion on the fit of the Noble Fokus Pros?
> 
> From what I've seen, most of the reviewers said they're comfortable, but the last 2 comments here haven't been positive for comfort. Is discomfort more likely for users with smaller ears?


The larger nozzles are rough for me. Mest didn't work for me either. Tried all the tips, which is a bummer because they sound great. If you want them, let me know. 3 weeks old and I'll do 250.


----------



## samandhi

Sales-wise the Sony Linkbuds must have been a flop if they are already talking about releasing the Linkbuds S after only 3 months on the market. Or maybe they were planning it all along to cover both sides of the fence???

All I can say is that the reviews from some of the idiots from the commercial review sites hasn't helped. I mean they all say that they are really light in bass, and don't sound great. Of course, most of them didn't bother reading the manual; the part that shows a nice picture that actually shows correct insertion...  Maybe they are right, and Sony made something way too complicated to properly enjoy?! LOL

I, for one don't like where they are going with the new design. As mentioned earlier, they look WAY too much like the XM4 TWS, and am not sure why they didn't just name them as such?! Besides the fact that the Linkbus are the only ones they make that are ACTUALLY earbuds.


----------



## regancipher

samandhi said:


> Sales-wise the Sony Linkbuds must have been a flop if they are already talking about releasing the Linkbuds S after only 3 months on the market. Or maybe they were planning it all along to cover both sides of the fence???
> 
> All I can say is that the reviews from some of the idiots from the commercial review sites hasn't helped. I mean they all say that they are really light in bass, and don't sound great. Of course, most of them didn't bother reading the manual; the part that shows a nice picture that actually shows correct insertion...  Maybe they are right, and Sony made something way too complicated to properly enjoy?! LOL
> 
> I, for one don't like where they are going with the new design. As mentioned earlier, they look WAY too much like the XM4 TWS, and am not sure why they didn't just name them as such?! Besides the fact that the Linkbus are the only ones they make that are ACTUALLY earbuds.


Mad isn't it. I watched those videos and just facepalmed. The instructions are literally the first thing you see, they're printed on the flap that you have to push down to remove the case. Anyone reviewing tech who can't even be bothered to RTFM can do one as far as I'm concerned.

The Linkbuds S is another example of a vendor just exhausting a decent but not groundbreaking idea. Just like FIIL with the CC Pro, Omthing with the Airfree Pro, 1More with, well, every release, etc)


----------



## regancipher

Bhelpoori said:


> I have the 1More Evos which I just bought today. Once I charge and play with them a bit I’ll let you know more.
> 
> Initial impressions of the case, style and comfort are good. The software update went very smoothly. I’m hopeful these will be at least as good as the L3Pro which I like but after being my daily driver for 5 months the wingtips don’t stay and are now uncomfortable, with the resulting decrease in ANC and sound quality.
> 
> More in about a day.


Indeed keep us posted!


----------



## Sam L

samandhi said:


> Sales-wise the Sony Linkbuds must have been a flop if they are already talking about releasing the Linkbuds S after only 3 months on the market. Or maybe they were planning it all along to cover both sides of the fence???
> 
> All I can say is that the reviews from some of the idiots from the commercial review sites hasn't helped. I mean they all say that they are really light in bass, and don't sound great. Of course, most of them didn't bother reading the manual; the part that shows a nice picture that actually shows correct insertion...  Maybe they are right, and Sony made something way too complicated to properly enjoy?! LOL
> 
> I, for one don't like where they are going with the new design. As mentioned earlier, they look WAY too much like the XM4 TWS, and am not sure why they didn't just name them as such?! Besides the fact that the Linkbus are the only ones they make that are ACTUALLY earbuds.


Oops. There's an actual picture showing correct insertion? I have to hunt for the manual, though I don't have any issues with the fit, just curious.


----------



## howdy

Anyone with the MTW3 and the CX, is there a sound difference valid enough to get the new MTW3? Really like Sennheiser and have the MTW1 and CX already but still I'm intrigued by the newest iteration.


----------



## jant71 (May 8, 2022)

samandhi said:


> Sales-wise the Sony Linkbuds must have been a flop if they are already talking about releasing the Linkbuds S after only 3 months on the market. Or maybe they were planning it all along to cover both sides of the fence???
> 
> All I can say is that the reviews from some of the idiots from the commercial review sites hasn't helped. I mean they all say that they are really light in bass, and don't sound great. Of course, most of them didn't bother reading the manual; the part that shows a nice picture that actually shows correct insertion...  Maybe they are right, and Sony made something way too complicated to properly enjoy?! LOL
> 
> I, for one don't like where they are going with the new design. As mentioned earlier, they look WAY too much like the XM4 TWS, and am not sure why they didn't just name them as such?! Besides the fact that the Linkbus are the only ones they make that are ACTUALLY earbuds.


Linkbuds is the line really. Gonna more than one model. The Linkbud S had to be filed for a long time ago. Certified in late October and we first knew of them in November so it can't have anything to do with the Linkbuds sales. Obviously after that big release pitch about Linkbuds being the next step in the portable audio/headphone evolution it really is for the line not just the one model. I think the next top model replacing the XM4 will be a linkbud as well like Linkbuds Pro or some such. 

Pretty sure I am not alone in thinking Sony is quite happy to have their own 2 syllable name for their buds now like that fruit brand.  One that both rolls off the tongue better and can't be confused like with WF- and WH-1000XM4 and some people are like huh? Now they can have WH-1000XM5 and Linkbuds Pro with no mixing them up. Linkbuds S is certainly better than being the WF-C600 or whatever.


----------



## TooFrank

Got the B&O EX. So surprised that they were very uncomfortable to my ears. Tried all the ear tips. The sound is great coming from an E8. However, the the passive sound generation from those using the comply foams appear more efficient to me compared to the ANC of the EX. I normally use M tips, but realized that when I use the EX, I may push them to far into the ear to get a good seal and that is why the hurt. Had fortunately a pair of 360 spinfit (L), adn they changed the experience completely: Now I am happy (almost) with the the fit. Anyway, I  do appreciate the SQ...magnificient. But for ANC XM4 rules....


----------



## BooleanBones

TooFrank said:


> Got the B&O EX. So surprised that they were very uncomfortable to my ears. Tried all the ear tips. The sound is great coming from an E8. However, the the passive sound generation from those using the comply foams appear more efficient to me compared to the ANC of the EX. I normally use M tips, but realized that when I use the EX, I may push them to far into the ear to get a good seal and that is why the hurt. Had fortunately a pair of 360 spinfit (L), adn they changed the experience completely: Now I am happy (almost) with the the fit. Anyway, I  do appreciate the SQ...magnificient. But for ANC XM4 rules....


do they charge ok with the spinfits?


----------



## samandhi

jant71 said:


> Linkbuds is the line really. Gonna more than one model. The Linkbud S had to be filed for a long time ago. *Certified in late October and we first knew of them in November so it can't have anything to do with the Linkbuds sales.* Obviously after that big release pitch about Linkbuds being the next step in the portable audio/headphone evolution it really is for the line not just the one model. I think the next top model replacing the XM4 will be a linkbud as well like Linkbuds Pro or some such.
> 
> Pretty sure I am not alone in thinking Sony is quite happy to have their own 2 syllable name for their buds now like that fruit brand.  One that both rolls off the tongue better and can't be confused like with WF- and WH-1000XM4 and some people are like huh? Now they can have WH-1000XM5 and Linkbuds Pro with no mixing them up. Linkbuds S is certainly better than being the WF-C600 or whatever.


That is a good point. One that I didn't think of in fact. Though, beyond the first model I see not much innovation in these. More like a Frankenstein; a mashup of the XM4 and Linkbuds. Apparently, they build the hype with the Linkbuds, and ride their own hype with the release of the later models in the Linkbuds lineup. Clever, but dubious IMHO! Maybe it is their way of grabbing the classic earbud (flatheads) segment also. After all, I have never been interested in any Sony headgear until the Linkbuds.

Oh, I am quite sure you are right about that, though the fruit brand has something more akin to an actual earbud (though the newer models are IEMs). At the end of the day, it isn't THAT important I suppose. It is Sony simply trying to exert and show control over the market (like Apple has done with phones for years with their supposed innovations; removing headphone jacks and etc...). Everything from vernacular to trends (that may or may not make sense). After all Sony has been the inventor or main facilitator of a lot of new tech over the years (VHS, .mp3, SACD, Blu-ray, LDAC, etc..).


----------



## helmutcheese

BooleanBones said:


> do they charge ok with the spinfits?


360 v2 are the TWS model so should fit cases.


----------



## Ceeluh7

dyh said:


> Anybody else have an opinion on the fit of the Noble Fokus Pros?
> 
> From what I've seen, most of the reviewers said they're comfortable, but the last 2 comments here haven't been positive for comfort. Is discomfort more likely for users with smaller ears?


Mine fit like a glove... Absolutely perfect


----------



## jant71




----------



## dyh

JoshG1217 said:


> The larger nozzles are rough for me. Mest didn't work for me either. Tried all the tips, which is a bummer because they sound great. If you want them, let me know. 3 weeks old and I'll do 250.


Thanks for your thoughts. I have Fokus Pros on the way already, but I'm sure somebody else here will want yours.

Did you try any aftermarket 3rd party tips?

I know some people find a great fit with the stock tips on the Noble Fokus Pros, but it seems like some users prefer other tips.

By Mest, do you mean the Unique Melody MEST?

I'll just have to try them and see, but anybody else have issues with the nozzles of the Noble Fokus Pros?


----------



## tombrisbane

My right ear bud on the EX seems to be draining/continually charging.  Anyone noticed this?  Went to pop them in this morning and the L was full, case and R depleted.

Thankfully I have enough other buds to keep me going


----------



## dyh

tombrisbane said:


> My right ear bud on the EX seems to be draining/continually charging.  Anyone noticed this?  Went to pop them in this morning and the L was full, case and R depleted.
> 
> Thankfully I have enough other buds to keep me going


Seems like it could be a defective unit. I'd try to get an RMA and a replacement.


----------



## FSTOP

dyh said:


> Thanks for your thoughts. I have Fokus Pros on the way already, but I'm sure somebody else here will want yours.
> 
> Did you try any aftermarket 3rd party tips?
> 
> ...


They are large for me, and the nozzles were extremely hard to put any of my many tips on to try as replacements. Unfortunately, my personal ear anatomy just wasn't working, and I know my ears are smaller than normal, I've even had issues with custom molds. This is just something that manufacturers can't always help, so I'm not putting any blame or giving a review. And the fokus pro is my favorite looking I've seen (and even blue, my favorite color). I also can't wear many higher-end or totl hybrid iems as the shell size or shape just doesn't fit or is uncomfortable. It's just that all ears are different, so noone can predict it perfectly, including manufacturers.


----------



## dyh

FSTOP said:


> They are large for me, and the nozzles were extremely hard to put any of my many tips on to try as replacements. Unfortunately, my personal ear anatomy just wasn't working, and I know my ears are smaller than normal, I've even had issues with custom molds. This is just something that manufacturers can't always help, so I'm not putting any blame or giving a review. And the fokus pro is my favorite looking I've seen (and even blue, my favorite color). I also can't wear many higher-end or totl hybrid iems as the shell size or shape just doesn't fit or is uncomfortable. It's just that all ears are different, so noone can predict it perfectly, including manufacturers.


Thanks for the info, and hopefully you can find something that's ideal for you.

Did you try AZLA Xelastec, or AZLA Crystal Tips? 

It seems those are some of the best 3rd party Earphone Tips on the market.

Also, which Brands and Models of aftermarket Tips do you like?

Does anybody else have an opinion on which Tips (stock or 3rd party) are best for the Noble Fokus Pros?


----------



## Tenlow (May 9, 2022)

Over the top comparisons you like, you say? Alright then!

*Comparison MTW3 vs. WF-1000XM4 *

Here’s my rather in depth comparison of the new Sennheiser MTW3 and the Sony WF-1000XM4. Each category gets points out of 10. Without mentioning them very often in the text, I will also provide the points I would have given the MTW2 in each category for a better comparison. Note that the MTW3 are on a (possibly) pre-release firmware version 2.3.9 at the time of this comparison.

*Case:*

MTW3: 8.0

XM4: 7.0

(MTW2: 8.0)

Sennheiser’s case is more solidly built, feels nicer in the hands and doesn't get scratched easily. It's (still) a bit larger and "heavier", though. Both cases charge via USB-C as well as wirelessly. The MTW3 holds 3 additional charges, whereas the XM4 case holds only 2. The hinge feels stiffer on the MTW3 and the lid opens more tightly but it's probably a good idea to nevertheless take good care of both of them. I use a Spigen Case for the XM4 for extra protection.


*Build Quality (buds):*

MTW3: 8.0

XM4: 8.0

(MTW2: 8.0)

Tie here. Both have very good build quality. The bronze metal accents on the XM4 microphones are a nice touch but nothing that really sets them apart with regard to quality. Nothing creaks or feels cheap on both offerings.


*Fit/Tips/Passive Isolation:*

MTW3: 9.0

XM4: 8.0

(MTW2: 8.0)

The MTW3 fit extremely securely and also very comfortably in my ears. I don't even need the additionally provided ear fins they come with but it's very nice that they're there as they will definitely be useful for many people and for workouts/sports. The buds are yet again smaller than the previous generation, which is good imo. Sennheiser offers 4 pair of silicone tips (XS, S, M and L) with an integrated little mesh/foam piece in the top part of the tips, assumedly for driver protection (and maybe also for acoustic reasons). Passive Isolation is excellent for silicone tips and reduces noise quite significantly already. The tips are also very flexible and feel comfortable in the ear.

The XM4 are bulkier and heavier. They hurt my ears the first 2 weeks or so but that got much better over time and they are even comfortable by now. If you have small ears, that could be a bit of a problem. They don't offer any silicone tips but 3 pairs of "acoustic foam" tips (S, M and L). They also fit nicely but can get a bit itchy during longer listening sessions. They're also less durable and you will need to replace them sooner than silicone tips. They do offer great passive isolation, though. In my opinion, the XM4 sound better with regular silicone tips but the tradeoff is reduced ANC performance and isolation then. The MTW3 protrude less from the ear simply because they're the smaller and more ergonomically shaped buds.


*Sound:*

MTW3: 9.0

XM4: 7.0 (8.0 after EQ)

(MTW2: 8.0)

The Sennheiser beat the Sony in sound pretty comfortably imo. Things get better for the XM4 once you use the actually pretty good in app EQ but even then the MTW3 just sound clearer, more precise and spacious. The bass is more tactile, layered and defined. They have a better soundstage and better instrument separation as well. The Sony in their stock tuning are a bit thumpy in an almost bloated/muddy way with regard to their bass. It lacks precision and depth. Instead it just throws a lot of bass at you. This does work for bass heavy music and certain genres of course, but it's not very universally desirable. The XM4 also have tuned back the highs in their standard EQ setting. There is not much air and sparkle there, whereas you can hear exactly that on the MTW3. Again, you can raise the upper mids and highs on the XM4 and also reduce the bass a bit and it really helps and makes them sound quite good but you still can't reach the sound quality and level of detail that the Sennheiser offer even in their stock tuning. Both buds get more than loud enough for me, which is always appreciated.


*Battery life: *

MTW3: 7.5

   (6.5h (ANC) / 7h (ANC off) / 28h total max.)

XM4: 9.0

   (8h (ANC) / 10-12h (ANC off) / 30-36h total max.)

(MTW2: 7.0)

Sony wins here. The XM4 have a longer battery life (per single charge and in total). Both devices support a quick charge feature via USB-C. The MTW3 still have solid battery life figures that should be more than sufficient for most cases and situations.


*ANC/Transparency Mode:*

MTW3: 8.5

XM4: 9.0

(MTW2: 5.5)

Now that’s an interesting comparison. The passive noise cancellation is slightly better on the MTW3 and very impressive. The active noise cancelling is very close on both sets. Maybe, but just maybe, the XM4 are still ever so slightly better but I’m not entirely sure, honestly. Very close call. The Sony have the advantage of the standard foam tips here and thus the XM4 have an extremely good isolation (active + passive). However, if you’d put foam tips on the MTW3 as well, I’d be inclined to call this a tie all things considered. The MTW3 feature adaptive ANC, anti wind ANC and the possibility to switch the ANC off entirely. The XM4 can also have adaptive ANC, anti wind and off but they also let you fine-tune the ANC with a slider which is something the Sennheiser cannot do right now. If you want ANC on the Sennys, it is either adaptive, anti wind or off - nothing else. Not a dealbreaker at all for me as I usually have the ANC on max on all my TWS anyway when I need it, but it might be useful in some situations to fine-tune it manually. Ultimately, Sennheiser is here as close as they have ever been to Sony with regard to ANC performance and have improved immensely compared to the MTW2. Things might even become better over time and firmware updates (the Sony have already benefitted from this since they have been on the market for much longer obviously.

The transparency modes are both very good, fairly natural sounding and effective. I love "speak to chat" on the XM4 for certain situations on the go but only activate it when really needed. The MTW3 have the option to pause the music when you activate transparency mode, similarly to the quick attention mode on the Sony. Many TWS these days still don't have that and don't pause the music automatically, making it one additionally required tap for the same result. So it's great to have that here. In the standard setting (50%), the Sennheiser don't have a lot of white noise but there the XM4 are more transparent. You can, however, set the MTW3 to 100% in the transparency slider and have a very strong awareness of your surroundings as a result, even a bit stronger compared to the XM4. The tradeoff then unfortunately is quite a lot of white noise on the MTW3 when set to max transparency. Future updates might also work on that a bit, hopefully.


*Connectivity:*

MTW3: 8.5

XM4: 8.5

(MTW2: 6.0)

The MTW3 still have some early bugs and sometimes don’t connect directly when you take them out of their case. That, or they connect and immediately disconnect again from time to time and need a manual re-connect to work properly again. However, I’m absolutely positive that this will very quickly be resolved through a firmware update. They haven’t even been officially released yet so that’s not a real issue for me but something to mention as of now. That said, once they’re connected they have a very strong bluetooth connection and an even more impressive range, both slightly edging out the XM4 even in my tests. It’s close, however, and the XM4 also have a very stable bluetooth connection with a very good range. No complaints here. Sony uses Bluetooth 5.2 and SBC, AAC and LDAC as codecs. Sennheiser also uses BT 5.2 as well as SBC, AAC and aptx Adaptive which is also compatible to aptx, aptX LL and aptx HD. As an iOS user, nothing of that really matters as it will always be AAC for us anyway  Sadly, both don't offer multipoint bluetooth but at least Sennheiser claims to bring it in a future firmware update, whereas it seems unlikely at this point that Sony is going to implement this feature any more and probably saves it for the WF-1000XM5 if I had to guess. Finally, Sennheiser got rid of the old master/slave technology and both buds can now also be used independently, just like on the XM4. It was about time! Would the Sennheiser have had multipoint right from release, I would give them the edge over the XM4 but since that’s not the case, I will call it another draw here.


*Controls*:

MTW3: 9.0

XM4: 8.0

(MTW2: 8.5)

Touch controls as always on both. Easy to use and very responsive. Both work great and are easy to reach and to operate. What I love about the Sennheiser is that you can really customize each bud absolutely the way you like it to have. That’s really great and should be the standard for all buds. Standard settings are: 1 tap left —> transparency mode, 1 tap right —> play/pause. 2 taps left —> previous song, 2 taps right —> next song. 3 taps left —> ANC modes, 3 taps right —> voice assistant. Left tap and hold —> lower volume, right tap and hold —> raise volume. Also taking and ending phone calls is one tap on either the left or the right side and declining a call is 2 taps on either the left or the right side. So, it’s all there and freely adjustable. You can even turn off your buds via taps if you want that. Very convenient and better than on the XM4 where you cannot have it all at the same time and you have to sacrifice one big feature usually (e.g. volume adjustment) if you want to have ANC controls on the left and track skipping controls on the right side e.g.


*Call Quality:*

MTW3: 7.5

XM4: 7.0

(MTW2: 7.0)

Sony’s microphones have been very very average for a long time already. The XM4 haven’t been an exception in that regard. Call quality was pretty bad-ish on release day but has improved quite a bit over time and various firmware updates. As it is now, they are usable to okay-ish. They work good in ideal and quiet conditions. The MTW3 microphones as they are now are also just okay but slightly better than the XM4. The calls I had so far with them worked fine. They are also very good in ideal and quiet conditions. We have to keep in mind here that the XM4 already received many firmware updates and the same will happen to the MTW3, so this can only mean more improvements to come. Slight advantage for the MTW3 all things considered.


*App Support/Other Features:*

MTW3: 7.5

XM4: 9.0

(MTW2: 7.0)

The new Sennheiser Smart Control app is sleeker than the old one and offers good additional functionality like an 3-band equalizer, a connection manager, a „sound check“ feature, transparency mode adjustments (pause music or not e.g.), adaptive ANC settings like anti wind, quite interesting new „sound zones“, the feature to disable the touch controls entirely, smart pause, auto call taking, firmware updates, auto-off feature (in minutes) etc. etc, but is still a bit buggy and needs some more refinement. You also need a (free) Sennheiser account these days for it. Also, the „Discover“ tab is pretty much just Sennheiser product placements and Sennheiser „news“. Still, the app is good and there’s a lot to like already. The XM4 have one of the best apps around probably. So many useful features like „Speak to chat“, adjusting automatic ambient sound modes / locations, an actually very good 6 band equalizer, DSEE Extreme upscaling, 360 degree audio, Bluetooth priority mode, auto on-off, a feature to check the fit of your eartips, firmware updates and even more. The app is stable and reliable, gets updated regularly and just works. Advantage Sony.


*Total Points / Summary thoughts:*

MTW3: 82.5

XM4: 81.5

(MTW2: 73.0)

Almost a tie, ultimately. Both are terrific true wireless sets. It depends on what you want in the end. If you want the best sound out of the two and you’re all about that little extra level of detail and clarity, go with the MTW3, no doubt. The XM4 will please most people as well but they’re not quite „up there“ and not as refined in the sound department. ANC, while greatly improved on the Sennheiser, is still a couple of percent better on the Sony. So, if that’s what’s most important to you and you even need a little longer battery life, go with the XM4. Personally, I’m a sound nerd and the comfort for me is also better on the MTW3, so I will stick to the MTW3 this time around. I also prefer the more customisable controls, the slightly better microphones and the nicer case on the Sennheiser. Sound, fit, comfort etc. are still subjective, of course, so other people might pick a different personal „winner“ for themselves


----------



## Juturna

For you LinkBuds owners, are they worth it? I have generally been in the crowd of people thinking that I don't want to hear the outside world when I listen to music. But lately I've been playing with the idea that it would be cool to be able to listen to music as if it came from speakers somewhere in the near vicinity, so you could have your own "soundtrack" while still navigating the world around you and being able to hear stuff that happens around you. 

Is this possible with the Linkbuds or am I just hoping for way too much?


----------



## samandhi

Juturna said:


> For you LinkBuds owners, are they worth it? I have generally been in the crowd of people thinking that I don't want to hear the outside world when I listen to music. But lately I've been playing with the idea that it would be cool to be able to listen to music as if it came from speakers somewhere in the near vicinity, so you could have your own "soundtrack" while still navigating the world around you and being able to hear stuff that happens around you.
> 
> Is this possible with the Linkbuds or am I just hoping for way too much?


Not only possible, but it is also reality with these. They are indeed totally open so you hear all. But they get loud enough to drown out most droning sounds (not very loud sounds though). They are also tuned like a classic earbud, meaning they have a huge soundstage like open back headphones do also. 

As long as they fit right for you, I can definitely recommend them.


----------



## chinmie

Juturna said:


> For you LinkBuds owners, are they worth it? I have generally been in the crowd of people thinking that I don't want to hear the outside world when I listen to music. But lately I've been playing with the idea that it would be cool to be able to listen to music as if it came from speakers somewhere in the near vicinity, so you could have your own "soundtrack" while still navigating the world around you and being able to hear stuff that happens around you.
> 
> Is this possible with the Linkbuds or am I just hoping for way too much?



I don't have the Linkbuds yet, but currently using the Samsung buds Live and Sabbat Vooplay (and also mmcx earbuds+ bt20s pro) for exactly that kind of "background music" scenarios. with low to moderate volume of music playing, i can still have normal conversations and hear any situational sound around me. 

if my speculation about the linkbuds is correct, i think it would work too for that same scenario


----------



## james444 (May 9, 2022)

Juturna said:


> For you LinkBuds owners, are they worth it? I have generally been in the crowd of people thinking that I don't want to hear the outside world when I listen to music. But lately I've been playing with the idea that it would be cool to be able to listen to music as if it came from speakers somewhere in the near vicinity, so you could have your own "soundtrack" while still navigating the world around you and being able to hear stuff that happens around you.
> 
> Is this possible with the Linkbuds or am I just hoping for way too much?





samandhi said:


> Not only possible, but it is also reality with these. They are indeed totally open so you hear all. But they get loud enough to drown out most droning sounds (not very loud sounds though). They are also tuned like a classic earbud, meaning they have a huge soundstage like open back headphones do also.
> 
> As long as they fit right for you, I can definitely recommend them.



I haven't tried the Linkbuds myself, but tbo I don't see any acoustic advantage of these compared to side-firing earbud TWS like the Airpods 3. Seems to me like Sony created an over-engineered solution to a problem that doesn't really exist, since I can get both huge open soundstage and low isolation situation awareness from side-firing open TWS too. Is there anything I might be missing with regards to this comparison?

Just for reference, here are Soundguys' measurements of Apple AirPods 3 and Sony LinkBuds. Note that I'm not even a fan of the Airpods, as I think one can get better sound quality for less money. But it's pretty obvious how the Airpods outperform the LinkBuds in the low range, while still presenting an open earbud-like soundstage.












Source:
https://www.soundguys.com/apple-airpods-3rd-generation-review-61295/
https://www.soundguys.com/sony-linkbuds-wf-l900-review-67631/


----------



## BooleanBones

Tenlow said:


> Over the top comparisons you like, you say? Alright then!
> 
> *Comparison MTW3 vs. WF-1000XM4
> 
> ...


Great notes. How natural or how does the transparency/ambient mode sound?


----------



## Beh0lder

james444 said:


> I haven't tried the Linkbuds myself, but tbo I don't see any acoustic advantage of these compared to side-firing earbud TWS like the Airpods 3.


The linkbuds were not designed with acoustics in mind. They outperform any other in ear method of sound generation in terms of environmental awareness yet unmatched by any fancy ambient or whatever mode. They are also free of that weird occlusion synonymous with having something stuffed in your ear, be it a bud or iem. They are awkward af to get into position since I need to really jam them in but afterwards those little IRL soundtrack generators do their job splendidly. Remember, they are about adding sound to whatever is already around you, not being sonically superior to other TWS.


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## Tenlow (May 9, 2022)

BooleanBones said:


> Great notes. How natural or how does the transparency/ambient mode sound?


I would say pretty natural but with very audible white noise, especially when set to max. So, nowhere near as good as, say Airpods Pro or even Max but more than good enough still for me as I don't mind the white noise. However, if you use it a lot and for longer sessions, it might bother you.

Edit: Added the missing information on the transparency modes in the ANC section. Thanks for pointing that out as I somehow missed it!


----------



## james444

Beh0lder said:


> The linkbuds were not designed with acoustics in mind. They outperform any other in ear method of sound generation in terms of environmental awareness yet unmatched by any fancy ambient or whatever mode. They are also free of that weird occlusion synonymous with having something stuffed in your ear, be it a bud or iem. They are awkward af to get into position since I need to really jam them in but afterwards those little IRL soundtrack generators do their job splendidly. Remember, they are about adding sound to whatever is already around you, not being sonically superior to other TWS.



Unless you have very small ears or stuff them deliberately in too far, earbud-style TWS don't produce occlusion effects either. They're simply non-sealing, open miniature ear-speakers, just like the LinkBuds.


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## TK33

Juturna said:


> For you LinkBuds owners, are they worth it? I have generally been in the crowd of people thinking that I don't want to hear the outside world when I listen to music. But lately I've been playing with the idea that it would be cool to be able to listen to music as if it came from speakers somewhere in the near vicinity, so you could have your own "soundtrack" while still navigating the world around you and being able to hear stuff that happens around you.
> 
> Is this possible with the Linkbuds or am I just hoping for way too much?


Definitely worth it for me.  Since I got them, I rarely use my Galaxy Buds Live (I have two pairs) for calls although I still like using them for streaming on my Samsung tablet (360 sound is pretty cool for watching shows). I have found they are great for having background music while walking around the city and in the office and they really do sound like they are coming from speakers rather than earbuds.  It is a weird experience.  Obviously they do not perform well for listening to music or hearing call audio in a noisy environment but that is not what they are designed to do and I still use the Galaxy Buds Live for calls with louder background noise.  They are also tiny and light so very easy to carry around.  As for fit, I do not have the same issues others have reported and I just stick them in my ears and can wear them for hours (I have gotten low battery notifications).  This is obviously very subjective and can vary from person to person but I think they are worth a shot as long as you can return them if they do not work for you   I have definitely been using them way more than I expected.


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## Bhelpoori (May 9, 2022)

I promised a first look at the 1More Evos:

Good Stuff

Comfort is good for me which I wasn’t expecting after lots of 1More reviews and experience with other TWS
Size. Case is smaller than the Jabra 85. Buds are too. Can easily fit into a pocket.
Case. The case feels great. It stands up well too because it has rubber on the bottom. The hinge feels quality like a BMW door.
Sound but see below… The sound is better than the L3Pro since it doesn’t have the metallic, slightly unreal, treble. It is pretty unfair to say more as it hasn’t been fully burned in (1More advises doing this and has a function in the app to do it). Right now I like it.
App. Whilst it isn’t full of settings like some, it works well (for example, just open the case to connect to the app without taking the buds out)
Calls. I’ve spent a couple of hours on calls, including one fun one with cats and dogs howling in the car. The Jabra 85 just let the noise through which wasn‘t very good at all, whilst the Evo tried to cut it out, which it mostly did though sometimes too aggressively. It also has a high noise gate when there’s background noise so you need to speak louder than normal. In low noise environments it also worked well. It also worked on a PC with Zoom well in a quiet environment. Quite pleased so far with this but will do more testing over the week.
Meh

ANC. It isn’t weak since it is sometimes better than the Jabra Elite 85 but overall it doesn’t come close to the top tier. It has a particular problem with mid to high frequencies or varying low ones, like cafe noises with no sound on. If you play music or some other noise it gets better though.
Transparency. It is better than ANC and the focus on voice mode at least works. It isn’t too shabby but it isn’t AirPods Max. White noise is better than most though.
Bad

No alternative to SoundID and worse what is shipped is an older version of it. The SoundID full app with parametric EQ and your previous testing history isn’t compatible with it, so not only do you only have 1/2 of SoundID, you also need to set it up from scratch. This took me 5 attempts even as someone who uses and likes it to get the sound I had with the real app. I can imagine others won’t find the right sound or just give up.
Limited controls. No single tap and press/hold fixed. The L3Pro and Jabra win here big time. OTOH the touch controls on the Evo are better than the L3Pro
Not Tested yet: dual connectivity,  call testing outside, full sound test, connectivity in bad radio environments, Android 

Any questions?


----------



## JoshG1217

dyh said:


> Thanks for your thoughts. I have Fokus Pros on the way already, but I'm sure somebody else here will want yours.
> 
> Did you try any aftermarket 3rd party tips?
> 
> ...


I've tried all the tips. I went back to the large stock tips today and those might be working better.  I do mean the UM Mest II.


----------



## BigZ12 (May 9, 2022)

Got my MTW3s yesterday. Here's some initial views.

Pros:
- Sound is really good for my taste. Best I've had in a TWS I think. Compared to Senn' MTW2, Sony WF-1000XM4, M&D MW08S, Devialet Gemini, Lypertek Pureplay Z7 etc.. Crisp and punchy with much better vocals compared to MTW2. And they are loud enough too. 
- ANC is good (tested vs WH-1000XM4, Airpods Max, Airpods Pro and Beats Fit Pro, on my porch where's there unfortunately a lot of freeway noise)
- Fit and comfort are very good, with almost all tips I tested with. (Spinfits, Comply, Final E-type etc) Feels light and secure in the ear. (I actually like the original mounted tips.)
- Call quality in silent enviroment are good. No complains with several calls. (haven't tested outside yet)
- BT range is good, and connection seems stable
- Smaller case than MTW2, good quality, looks nice and has wireless charging.
- Touch controls are accurate and easy to use.
- App is ok
- AAC/AptX/Adaptive codecs
- I think they look good, if that matters  (I have the graphite version)

Cons:
*- Adaptive ANC... well... My left ear hates it!!! I have droputs and noise when chewing/talking/shaking my head etc.. I had a similar experience with the Devialets. It's not that bad with the Senns', but annoying as he... Comply Foam helped a lot with the Geminis, but not so much with the Senns *
- ANC is just good... the other 4 headsets/tws mentioned, were better.
- Transparent mode has a lot of white noise (haven't tested the feature much yet, but the white noise was disappointing)
- They could have LDAC codec. (I will use them with an iPhone, so AAC is all I need anyways..)
- The app EQ could have more bands...
- The case is still a little big compared to several competitors.


----------



## Tenlow

BigZ12 said:


> Got my MTW3s yesterday. Here's some initial views.
> 
> Pros:
> - Sound is really good for my taste. Best I've had in a TWS I think. Compared to Senn' MTW2, Sony WF-1000XM4, M&D MW08S, Devialet Gemini, Lypertek Pureplay Z7 etc.. Crisp and punchy with much better vocals compared to MTW2. And they are loud enough too.
> ...


That does match a lot with my experiences. Thanks for your thoughts


----------



## C_Lindbergh

Lets hope for a big day 1 software update from Sennheiser tomorrow


----------



## erockg

BigZ12 said:


> Got my MTW3s yesterday. Here's some initial views.
> 
> Pros:
> - Sound is really good for my taste. Best I've had in a TWS I think. Compared to Senn' MTW2, Sony WF-1000XM4, M&D MW08S, Devialet Gemini, Lypertek Pureplay Z7 etc.. Crisp and punchy with much better vocals compared to MTW2. And they are loud enough too.
> ...


Mine arrive Thursday.  Looking forward to them!


----------



## darveniza

Juturna said:


> For you LinkBuds owners, are they worth it? I have generally been in the crowd of people thinking that I don't want to hear the outside world when I listen to music. But lately I've been playing with the idea that it would be cool to be able to listen to music as if it came from speakers somewhere in the near vicinity, so you could have your own "soundtrack" while still navigating the world around you and being able to hear stuff that happens around you.
> 
> Is this possible with the Linkbuds or am I just hoping for way too much?


I use these for office, calls within office and car. When I walk at night I use them and listen to music and enjoy them as tlit feels it's coming out of the Middle of your head . 

If I am going to gym and don't want to hear anything I use Technics AZ60


----------



## Caipirina

Juturna said:


> For you LinkBuds owners, are they worth it? I have generally been in the crowd of people thinking that I don't want to hear the outside world when I listen to music. But lately I've been playing with the idea that it would be cool to be able to listen to music as if it came from speakers somewhere in the near vicinity, so you could have your own "soundtrack" while still navigating the world around you and being able to hear stuff that happens around you.
> 
> Is this possible with the Linkbuds or am I just hoping for way too much?


This is pretty exactly how I perceive them .. adding a 'soundtrack' ... might very much depend on what style of music you want to play .. when I am with ppl I mainly use ambient. / meditation pling pling background music to calm the nerves


----------



## Caipirina

Was idly checking amazon if there is any release price drop / extra points or anything else I missed for the MTW3 release ... and upon seeing this: 




I am very much re-evaluating my purchase plan   ... I can get so much more headphone for cheaper?   
I always found the momentum over ears very sexy ,,,


----------



## samandhi

james444 said:


> I haven't tried the Linkbuds myself, but tbo I don't see any acoustic advantage of these compared to side-firing earbud TWS like the Airpods 3. Seems to me like Sony created an over-engineered solution to a problem that doesn't really exist, since I can get both huge open soundstage and low isolation situation awareness from side-firing open TWS too. Is there anything I might be missing with regards to this comparison?
> 
> Just for reference, here are Soundguys' measurements of Apple AirPods 3 and Sony LinkBuds. Note that I'm not even a fan of the Airpods, as I think one can get better sound quality for less money. But it's pretty obvious how the Airpods outperform the LinkBuds in the low range, while still presenting an open earbud-like soundstage.
> 
> ...


You need to try a really good set of classic earbuds to see what you are missing between the type of buds you are talking about. While the fruit devices are indeed open sounding, they are still limited on the soundstage and separation compared to true earbuds (which is what the Linkbuds are) because they are still directed by a narrow opening into the ear (they are more like an open IEM than a true earbud), whereas an earbud is round, sits outside your ear, and you hear it much like you would a set of speakers. Basically Sony created a set of classic earbuds that are TWS. I honestly don't think they overengineered these at all if you understand what they were trying to achieve with these. I don't think they were trying to copy the Airpods (but just more complicated) at all, but were trying to make true classic earbuds while having TWS. 

While classic earbuds are a niche thing nowadays, they are still VERY popular (and for good reason). Take some of the best open back circumaural (over-ear) headphones, and shrink them into IEM size. IEMs and even semi-in-ears cannot match that staging; though semi-in-ear buds can come much closer than IEMs can. 

Also, I wouldn't trust those graphs for any open or even semi-in-ear earbuds. Those measurement rigs were set up for IEMs and depend totally on a good seal to give accurate readings. And make no mistake, most TWS that have tips on them DO indeed rely on a seal to get their full sound whether shallow insertion or deep insertion is the intent. 

There is no really good solution for measuring open earbuds yet. You can do a search on this thread where there is a conversation about this very thing. The actual bass on the Linkbuds is nothing like it is shown on the graph. Granted, they will never reach Harmon levels of bass (read bass boosted), but this is the nature of open earbuds (though there are a few pairs that do VERY well, and can almost rival IEMs for quantity of bass), and until recently has also been the nature of open back headphones.  The Linkbuds actually sound a lot like the graph for the Airpods shows. Very full mid-bass and up, with sub-bass roll-off, though it isn't void and IS there. 


Caipirina said:


> Was idly checking amazon if there is any release price drop / extra points or anything else I missed for the MTW3 release ... and upon seeing this:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I'm sure that these are newest revision of them, but I have the Momentum wireless 2.0 from years ago (before they had to change the name, and then back), and I still love to listen to them. They have stood the test of time and are still VERY good over ear BT (and wired, and USB) headphones. The ANC works very well, if one understands that it was never intended to block ALL sound, but only lower (plane, train, etc...) sounds. 

Indeed, if you count the fact that there are four ways to enjoy music on these; wired w/ANC and without, BT only, USB DAC mode, combined with the sound quality, I think you would probably agree that the price for those is a pretty good deal IMHO. That is to say that they are tuned to the "Sennheiser house" sound with a bit of boosted bass (because they are considered mobile).


----------



## Caipirina

samandhi said:


> I'm sure that these are newest revision of them, but I have the Momentum wireless 2.0 from years ago (before they had to change the name, and then back), and I still love to listen to them. They have stood the test of time and are still VERY good over ear BT (and wired, and USB) headphones. The ANC works very well, if one understands that it was never intended to block ALL sound, but only lower (plane, train, etc...) sounds.
> 
> Indeed, if you count the fact that there are four ways to enjoy music on these; wired w/ANC and without, BT only, USB DAC mode, combined with the sound quality, I think you would probably agree that the price for those is a pretty good deal IMHO. That is to say that they are tuned to the "Sennheiser house" sound with a bit of boosted bass (because they are considered mobile).


Thanks for the input! Based on that I went over that amazon listing with a fine comb, as one needs to do these days, and several red flags came up ... seller 'just launched' (not sold & shipped by amazon), the description includes "authentic Japanese product" ....  eh ... also says '3 modes of noise cancer' .. but that could be some translation slip up   funny though 
I shall do some fit test when I see them in store next time ... and take it from there ... one reason why I stick with my QC35 for so long as main over ears is that they are SOOOO comfortable


----------



## samandhi

Caipirina said:


> Thanks for the input! Based on that I went over that amazon listing with a fine comb, as one needs to do these days, and several red flags came up ... seller 'just launched' (not sold & shipped by amazon), the description includes "authentic Japanese product" ....  eh ... also says '3 modes of noise cancer' .. but that could be some translation slip up   funny though
> I shall do some fit test when I see them in store next time ... and take it from there ... one reason why I stick with my QC35 for so long as main over ears is that they are SOOOO comfortable


You can buy them directly from Sennheiser's site here (for the US anyhow) for the price you are seeing. You know these are real (the ones you described do indeed sound fake), and you are assured to get the 2 year warranty. I have also seen them elsewhere on Amazon for the same price, though some places are still selling them at their $350-$400 original price.

Good catch on the sketchy(ness)!


----------



## dyh

JoshG1217 said:


> I've tried all the tips. I went back to the large stock tips today and those might be working better.  I do mean the UM Mest II.


This article has some interesting comments on the Stock Noble Fokus Pro Tips: https://headphone.guru/noble-fokus-pro-true-wireless-iem-achievement-unlocked/

"Despite a feeling of enclosed space, the single flange tips give a more fun bassier sound while the dual flange tips offer a more neutral presentation. I ended up preferring the large dual flange tips as these offered a combination of easier seal achievement and more natural sound. While the dual flange tips required a slight increase in volume, the dynamic range of the FoKus Pros was such that this was no issue able to achieve volumes well above my ability to listen comfortably."


What do you think about the AZLA Crystal, and AZLA Xelastec Tips paired with the Noble Fokus Pros?


----------



## JoshG1217

dyh said:


> This article has some interesting comments on the Stock Noble Fokus Pro Tips: https://headphone.guru/noble-fokus-pro-true-wireless-iem-achievement-unlocked/
> 
> "Despite a feeling of enclosed space, the single flange tips give a more fun bassier sound while the dual flange tips offer a more neutral presentation. I ended up preferring the large dual flange tips as these offered a combination of easier seal achievement and more natural sound. While the dual flange tips required a slight increase in volume, the dynamic range of the FoKus Pros was such that this was no issue able to achieve volumes well above my ability to listen comfortably."
> 
> ...


The xelastic weren't long enough. The crystal work a bit better for staying put at the gym. I think the sedna don't work as well because their nozzle opening is larger and so they slide further back on the fokus nozzle. I might try a sized down crystal and see how that goes. Comply was no good.


----------



## deuter

Reading the title of the thread, do we think its too early still ?
I believe until we get Custom TWS it is still early to say these are close to wired earphones.


----------



## dyh

JoshG1217 said:


> The xelastic weren't long enough. The crystal work a bit better for staying put at the gym. I think the sedna don't work as well because their nozzle opening is larger and so they slide further back on the fokus nozzle. I might try a sized down crystal and see how that goes. Comply was no good.


Thanks, let me know how the sized down Crystal Tips work out, or if you find a good 3rd party set of Earphone Tips that work well with the Fokus Pros.

Any thoughts on the JVC Spiral Dots, Spinfits, or the Final Audio Type E?

Maybe the Stock Dual Flange Tips are the best bet, but if anybody has a suggestion for a good set of 3rd party Earphone Tips that work well with the Noble Fokus Pros, let me know, thanks.


----------



## dyh

deuter said:


> Reading the title of the thread, do we think its too early still ?
> I believe until we get Custom TWS it is still early to say these are close to wired earphones.


I've read that some users think the Noble Fokus Pros compare well with wired earphones, so I'm looking forward to checking them out!


----------



## logiatype

deuter said:


> Reading the title of the thread, do we think its too early still ?
> I believe until we get Custom TWS it is still early to say these are close to wired earphones.


How about the UE fits?


----------



## JoshG1217

dyh said:


> Thanks, let me know how the sized down Crystal Tips work out, or if you find a good 3rd party set of Earphone Tips that work well with the Fokus Pros.
> 
> Any thoughts on the JVC Spiral Dots, Spinfits, or the Final Audio Type E?
> 
> Maybe the Stock Dual Flange Tips are the best bet, but if anybody has a suggestion for a good set of 3rd party Earphone Tips that work well with the Noble Fokus Pros, let me know, thanks.


Spin fits and type e didn't work great for Ms. I just ordered spiral dots last night as well as light azla sednas and will report back.


----------



## BigZ12

C_Lindbergh said:


> Lets hope for a big day 1 software update from Sennheiser tomorrow


Aaaand... there it was, the big day 1 software update! Installing as we speak. 
Hopefully the adaptive ANC don't clip the sound when moving/talking/chewing anymore.


----------



## Tenlow

BigZ12 said:


> Aaaand... there it was, the big day 1 software update! Installing as we speak.
> Hopefully the adaptive ANC don't clip the sound when moving/talking/chewing anymore.


Yes. I was just about to post this.


----------



## BigZ12

Tenlow said:


> Yes. I was just about to post this.





BigZ12 said:


> Aaaand... there it was, the big day 1 software update! Installing as we speak.
> Hopefully the adaptive ANC don't clip the sound when moving/talking/chewing anymore.


Nah... didn't help with my problem. Still the adaptive ANC picks up movement in my left ear, and both clips and alter the sound when moving the mouth.
I have a very good fit, and the bud is sitting so deep I can lay on the side with them. Maybe too good of a fit? Try bigger tips so it sticks out a little?


----------



## sgtbilko

erockg said:


> Heck, the new 1More Comfobuds Mini I have here seemed to have crammed in every possible feature for $85.


I just picked up the Comfobuds Mini myself. They are seriously tiny! Almost too small for my ears - especially when trying to get them out.

Out of interest, did you try to EQ them with an alternative equalizer? I've set up the soundID profile, which definitely improved the sound (much more v-shaped), but it's a bit like using a spoon as a scalpel. Would appreciate any frequency tweak suggestions that I can try with my Neutron Player.


----------



## Tenlow

BigZ12 said:


> Nah... didn't help with my problem. Still the adaptive ANC picks up movement in my left ear, and both clips and alter the sound when moving the mouth.
> I have a very good fit, and the bud is sitting so deep I can lay on the side with them. Maybe too good of a fit? Try bigger tips so it sticks out a little?


I luckily don't experience this issue at all, neither before the update nor after. I know how annoying it is though - had it on the Geminis, too.


----------



## BigZ12 (May 10, 2022)

Tenlow said:


> I luckily don't experience this issue at all, neither before the update nor after. I know how annoying it is though - had it on the Geminis, too.


I sold the Geminis due to the pops I got with chewing etc..

Trying to explain this... 
When putting a finger in the ears, and chew, I feel movements in the jaw affecting the inside of the left ear canal that's noticably different vs the right ear.
I guess this movement is what making the adaptive ANC react?

Edit: It's no problem with ANC off.


----------



## Tenlow

BigZ12 said:


> I sold the Geminis due to the pops I got with chewing etc..
> 
> Trying to explain this...
> When putting a finger in the ears, and chew, I feel movements in the jaw affecting the inside of the left ear canal that's noticably different vs the right ear.
> ...


I remember that it wasn't an issue for me with ANC off on the Geminis as well. On "low" is was okay-ish and on "max" it was very bad indeed.


----------



## BigZ12

Tenlow said:


> I remember that it wasn't an issue for me with ANC off on the Geminis as well. On "low" is was okay-ish and on "max" it was very bad indeed.


Look at the orientation of the Senn logo. The guy from Digital Trends (grey beard) has them twisted backwards, and the guy from the Senn commercial has them inserted so the logo is straight.
How do you insert them?


----------



## Tenlow

BigZ12 said:


> Look at the orientation of the Senn logo. The guy from Digital Trends (grey beard) has them twisted backwards, and the guy from the Senn commercial has them inserted so the logo is straight.
> How do you insert them?


Like the guy from Digital Trends, so twisted backwards.


----------



## BigZ12

Tenlow said:


> Like the guy from Digital Trends, so twisted backwards.


Me too. The wingtips have no support/nothing to "attach to" (can't explain it better  ) if the logo is straight.


----------



## Tenlow

BigZ12 said:


> Me too. The wingtips have no support/nothing to "attach to" (can't explain it better  ) if the logo is straight.


Exactly! Same for me


----------



## JoshG1217

Just ordered the 1more evo. I have low expectations, but figured I would give them a try. I'll compare to xm4 and fokus later


----------



## erockg

sgtbilko said:


> I just picked up the Comfobuds Mini myself. They are seriously tiny! Almost too small for my ears - especially when trying to get them out.
> 
> Out of interest, did you try to EQ them with an alternative equalizer? I've set up the soundID profile, which definitely improved the sound (much more v-shaped), but it's a bit like using a spoon as a scalpel. Would appreciate any frequency tweak suggestions that I can try with my Neutron Player.


Sadly, I had such a hard time with fit, I returned them.  I only used Sound ID and was actually surprised how good they sounded for what they are.  I tried so many tips and nothing I had fit in the case.  I might revisit if someone posted a tip solution that fit that dang case!


----------



## sgtbilko

erockg said:


> Sadly, I had such a hard time with fit, I returned them.  I only used Sound ID and was actually surprised how good they sounded for what they are.  I tried so many tips and nothing I had fit in the case.  I might revisit if someone posted a tip solution that fit that dang case!


Yeah, I couldn't find any tips from my collection that fit either. I read somewhere that someone said they were using SpinFit CP-1025 tips (which do look shallow enough), but no idea if they'd make much difference.

I'm using the largest tips at the moment, but feel I could do with something a little larger on one side to get an even better seal.


----------



## BigZ12

Tenlow said:


> Exactly! Same for me


Did they lower the bass a little, in the updated firmware??


----------



## Tenlow

BigZ12 said:


> Did they lower the bass a little, in the updated firmware??


Haven't noticed that yet!


----------



## Bhelpoori

Update on 1More Evo:

Dual connectivity works between a Win10 laptop and an iPhone. It is imperfect but at least is uses AAC on Windows…and it is marked as experimental. 
Outdoor microphone test went pretty well. It suppressed loud traffic noise really nicely. 
I’d like to see reviewers test ANC because even though I think I have a good fit, it is really average. 
Battery life is easily 5 hours talk time so better than the L3Pro and AirPod Pros. Not tested music properly but seems longer than 5 hours. 
Sound remains impressive


----------



## dj24

JoshG1217 said:


> Just ordered the 1more evo. I have low expectations, but figured I would give them a try. I'll compare to xm4 and fokus later


Bart's review.


----------



## helmutcheese (May 10, 2022)




----------



## Tommy C

BigZ12 said:


> Me too. The wingtips have no support/nothing to "attach to" (can't explain it better  ) if the logo is straight.





Tenlow said:


> Exactly! Same for me



Is there are anything like the CX 400 BT the instructions say to insert and twist to lock them in place and believe that should be the method too here. 
It’s getting a bit getting used to but when they are locked in they are super comfortable and stable.


----------



## Bhelpoori

dj24 said:


> Bart's review.


I agree with most of Bart’s review including the sound. 

I need to test the ANC more but my current thoughts don’t match Bart’s and I find the comfort of the Evo to be far superior to the L3Pro.


----------



## Tenlow

Tommy C said:


> Is there are anything like the CX 400 BT the instructions say to insert and twist to lock them in place and believe that should be the method too here.
> It’s getting a bit getting used to but when they are locked in they are super comfortable and stable.


Yes. Same here.


----------



## logiatype

Tenlow said:


> Yes. Same here.


This is how I wear all TWS. Opposite for regular IEMs, put them in then twist forward so the cable is snug.


----------



## dweaver

deuter said:


> Reading the title of the thread, do we think its too early still ?
> I believe until we get Custom TWS it is still early to say these are close to wired earphones.


TWS is limited by two things in my opinion. 

One is the BT technology itself. It is a technology designed more for transmitting digital information such as keyboard and mouse and as such is not inherently good enough to transmit sound information without the use of a lossy format (losing data). The sound quality can be improved by dividing up the responsibility of the chip receiving the digital signal from managing everything. The challenge is by separating different components from the BT chip you need more electronics making the internals bigger.

This leads to and exacerbates the second issue with TWS. Everything has to be crammed into one small enclosure! This leads to less than optimal driver configuration and allows for very little if any room to let the driver have a cavity (more important with dynamic drivers). The TWS manufacturer then is reduced to using electronic processing to make up for the poor driver placement and design.

Neither of these issues will be solved by a custom shell unless its using only BA drivers and is designed to fully encased with no cavities and then all electronics would need to be placed on top of the driver configuration making it too bulky.

Having tried 2 different hybrid TWS and one hybrid (Fiio FH5) with TWS adapter (Fiio UTWS5) I can say that using an adapter gives the best possible experience sonically speaking. A good TWS adapter has enough room to allow for more electronics so the BT chip can be dedicated to only the BT processing and a separate DAC cab ben used to convert that signal into music. This combined with the IEM itself not needing to be compromised in regards to driver placement and design will give you the closest to a wired sound as possible and it is very good in my opinion.

The good news is if your existing custom IEM is either a 2 pin or COAX connected model you will be able to easily attach it to a TWS adapter allowing you to get the best of both worlds sonically speaking.


----------



## deuter

logiatype said:


> How about the UE fits?


It’s sonically not there.


----------



## VICosPhi (May 10, 2022)

I returned the B&O EX, mainly due to weird issues like left earbud not auto powering on after taking out of the case, the case LED blinks red when used for wireless charging(B&O says it is from overheating, and to use USB-C even though my wireless charger has a fan), Charging case battery level not updated in the app(gets stuck and have to remove/reinstall app or factory reset buds to get the correct level), battery % on one earbud is 7 to 10% different than other bud (though this is more common in other buds too IMO). And lastly, the fit was better than EQ but still hurt my ears after couple hours. And that "dark" sound signature of the EX didn't help either.

Well I am gonna go down the MTW3 rabbit hole now...

I just need to accept that Technics AZ60 are the most feature rich, great sounding buds there are and learn to be content with it. These are my goto buds and they just work with no issues with music or calls...(battery % difference is still there though only 3% offset)


----------



## jant71

VICosPhi said:


> I returned the B&O EX, mainly due to weird issues like left earbud not auto powering on after taking out of the case, the case LED blinks red when used for wireless charging(B&O says it is from overheating, and to use USB-C even though my wireless charger has a fan), Charging case battery level not updated in the app(gets stuck and have to remove/reinstall app or factory reset buds to get the correct level), battery % on one earbud is 7 to 10% different than other bud (though this is more common in other buds too IMO). And lastly, the fit was better than EQ but still hurt my ears after couple hours. And that "dark" sound signature of the EX didn't help either.
> 
> Well I am gonna go down the MTW3 rabbit hole now...


----------



## jant71 (May 10, 2022)

Nothing that excited me on the TWS front. I went and bought this though...







Got a Hiby WU1 and a pair of CCA CRA. Total was $98 with tax and shipping($69 + $21). Got some power with a QCC5125 and AK4331 combo. LDAC, UAT, and the aptX's and all that. Hi-Res and Hi-Res wireless certified and I can ditch the case. A safer bet with glasses as well over TWS adapters and nicer to press the buttons than behind the ear for my liking. Lays right off the shoulder so not bouncing or pulling down. Better than the usual pods hanging down with less weight and freer turning the head left and right. Nice compromise for my liking and we can all appreciate more power and headroom.   Does use an app...




CCA is indeed the little overachiever and easily powered. Big and open and surprisingly detailed and nicely extended and fun. Inexpensive, predictable, smallish, and the first one has a good F.R. for BT which is the reason I got it along with it's very spacious nature to counter compression. Great starting point anyhow. I did get the CCA first to run off my Z3 cable which has weaker power and it did well there but quickly got the Hiby to get better earguides and get USB-C and lose the dangle pods. 

Course we lose ambient here. Well it just converts to popping the buds out instead of holding in to activate really. I always like the lay on the neck style since I use DAPs 3/4 of the time so no master/slave issue or turning the head giving a stutter since the antenna is no longer moving away. I mean I can still choose the master by which side Yamaha TW-E5B I pull out of the case first based on the pockets I have or want to use for a player. No issue with a phone having true stereo but for sports a 25 gram clip player versus the size and weight of a phone is a worse issue so I'll take tiny and select a side based on where best to clip on. Just no TWS connection issue using the Hiby though. Plus I love my little Cowon but it has older BT and I can't get perfect reception with TWS but I can with the Hiby esp. through walls.

Buttons are a little small and close together but it is a real good solution for me over the TWS adapter route.


----------



## JoshG1217

Not sure who Bart is, but it seems odd to compare them to the xm3. Why wouldn't you do the Xm4? They are just about the standard bearer right now in terms of the whole package. Yes, the Fokus has greater clarity, but not my much, and for fit and function (plus ANC), XM4 still takes the cake for me.


----------



## JoshG1217

So, as far as TWS adapter, I bought the UTWS5 as soon as it came out, and I used the z1r with them... at the gym. My experience is that it didn't sound better than the XM4, which was a bummer, but I think the true issue was lack of power. The z1r need some power to make them shine. Paired with the Ifi idsd signature, they sounded flipping brilliant. with UTWS5, not so much. I considered going with a more easily powered iem, but that's just another rabbit hole... but I guess this whole hobby is that. My wife gives me the side eye every time something shows up on our porch.


----------



## deuter

dweaver said:


> TWS is limited by two things in my opinion.
> 
> One is the BT technology itself. It is a technology designed more for transmitting digital information such as keyboard and mouse and as such is not inherently good enough to transmit sound information without the use of a lossy format (losing data). The sound quality can be improved by dividing up the responsibility of the chip receiving the digital signal from managing everything. The challenge is by separating different components from the BT chip you need more electronics making the internals bigger.
> 
> ...


The issue with battery drain that we're finding with most TWS is due to the app connectivity.
The Grado GT220, is simple using pure bluetooth connection, no app or any fancy equalizers and definitely no ANC.
In fact I would not use it for calls too as the microphone is quite poor.

But, the sound quality is amazing for music, awesome bass and good tonality.
The volume can get very loud, you will never run out of headroom and  the battery last for weeks.
I could not use it for a few weeks and there will be no standby drain whatsoever.
I'am thinking of hanging on to them until somethin else comes up that can better  it on the sonic ground without compromising things like battery.


----------



## erockg

VICosPhi said:


> I returned the B&O EX, mainly due to weird issues like left earbud not auto powering on after taking out of the case, the case LED blinks red when used for wireless charging(B&O says it is from overheating, and to use USB-C even though my wireless charger has a fan), Charging case battery level not updated in the app(gets stuck and have to remove/reinstall app or factory reset buds to get the correct level), battery % on one earbud is 7 to 10% different than other bud (though this is more common in other buds too IMO). And lastly, the fit was better than EQ but still hurt my ears after couple hours. And that "dark" sound signature of the EX didn't help either.
> 
> Well I am gonna go down the MTW3 rabbit hole now...
> 
> I just need to accept that Technics AZ60 are the most feature rich, great sounding buds there are and learn to be content with it. These are my goto buds and they just work with no issues with music or calls...(battery % difference is still there though only 3% offset)


That power on issue seems to have resolved itself for me.  I did clean the contacts and wiggle them a few times when taking them out.  Lucky I guess.


----------



## dweaver

JoshG1217 said:


> So, as far as TWS adapter, I bought the UTWS5 as soon as it came out, and I used the z1r with them... at the gym. My experience is that it didn't sound better than the XM4, which was a bummer, but I think the true issue was lack of power. The z1r need some power to make them shine. Paired with the Ifi idsd signature, they sounded flipping brilliant. with UTWS5, not so much. I considered going with a more easily powered iem, but that's just another rabbit hole... but I guess this whole hobby is that. My wife gives me the side eye every time something shows up on our porch.


I have read the 1ZR is a beast for power. The Fiio FH5 sings on the UTWS5 but kind of makes sense that they would make work well with their own IEMs.


----------



## Ceeluh7

dweaver said:


> TWS is limited by two things in my opinion.
> 
> One is the BT technology itself. It is a technology designed more for transmitting digital information such as keyboard and mouse and as such is not inherently good enough to transmit sound information without the use of a lossy format (losing data). The sound quality can be improved by dividing up the responsibility of the chip receiving the digital signal from managing everything. The challenge is by separating different components from the BT chip you need more electronics making the internals bigger.
> 
> ...


Couldn't agree more. Obviously there are a few that can replay music with close to the same fidelity. There are ways of using a smaller space to correctly tune a tws iem but there will mostly be shortcomings until the tech gets smaller. Some can pull it off. Couldn't agree more about the use of adapters though. They really are fantastic. That said, the only shortcoming I see is that they are quite a bit larger. Not that it ever bothered me. I wear them different places at times. If I'm doing a review of an iem, I'll wear them (utws5 + iem) out and about and have zero issue with it. I've had the utws5 since the week it came out and I'm telling you they sound amazing with any iem I put in them and I've tried alot. Totally agree


----------



## Ceeluh7

jant71 said:


> Nothing that excited me on the TWS front. I went and bought this though...
> 
> 
> Got a Hiby WU1 and a pair of CCA CRA. Total was $98 with tax and shipping($69 + $21). Got some power with a QCC5125 and AK4331 combo. LDAC, UAT, and the aptX's and all that. Hi-Res and Hi-Res wireless certified and I can ditch the case. A safer bet with glasses as well over TWS adapters and nicer to press the buttons than behind the ear for my liking. Lays right off the shoulder so not bouncing or pulling down. Better than the usual pods hanging down with less weight and freer turning the head left and right. Nice compromise for my liking and we can all appreciate more power and headroom.   Does use an app...
> ...


This is actually a decent neckband style. I had it for a bit. The sound is fantastic. Hiby, Fiio, Shanling all make some really great ones. More expensive but imo the best out there is the Ikko arc itb05. Anyways, nice buy, Hiby did well with this adapter.


----------



## Ceeluh7

deuter said:


> The issue with battery drain that we're finding with most TWS is due to the app connectivity.
> The Grado GT220, is simple using pure bluetooth connection, no app or any fancy equalizers and definitely no ANC.
> In fact I would not use it for calls too as the microphone is quite poor.
> 
> ...


I have said over and over that one of the few which compete toe to toe with the fokus pro is the gt220. In my opinion anyway. I had horrible connectivity issues where they would just lose connection or shut off. It stinks because I do think the Grados are one of the best for pure music. Just a powerhouse of a tws iem. Actually louder than the Fokus Pros, not that this means they are better but it is something. I do think the Fokus are a bit better but they are also $100 more.


----------



## dyh

Ceeluh7 said:


> I have said over and over that one of the few which compete toe to toe with the fokus pro is the gt220. In my opinion anyway. I had horrible connectivity issues where they would just lose connection or shut off. It stinks because I do think the Grados are one of the best for pure music. Just a powerhouse of a tws iem. Actually louder than the Fokus Pros, not that this means they are better but it is something. I do think the Fokus are a bit better but they are also $100 more.


Any thoughts on which Earphone Tips (stock or 3rd party) are best with the Fokus Pros?


----------



## jant71

Ceeluh7 said:


> This is actually a decent neckband style. I had it for a bit. The sound is fantastic. Hiby, Fiio, Shanling all make some really great ones. More expensive but imo the best out there is the Ikko arc itb05. Anyways, nice buy, Hiby did well with this adapter.


Yep, the Ikko is the best sounding one but a bit bigger/heavier. The IKKO is always scary for reports of reliability issues. Too scary to run around and shoot some hoops or whack a ball around with that one.


----------



## VICosPhi

erockg said:


> That power on issue seems to have resolved itself for me.  I did clean the contacts and wiggle them a few times when taking them out.  Lucky I guess.


Got an email today from Amazon that MTW3 are delayed! May want to check your order status as I needed to "approve" the second attempt to ship.


----------



## erockg

VICosPhi said:


> Got an email today from Amazon that MTW3 are delayed! May want to check your order status as I needed to "approve" the second attempt to ship.


So far so good.  They're here in Chino, near LA already. Thanks for the heads up.


----------



## dweaver

Got the ok to return the Jabras. But have to say using the spinfits on the AZ60 has been a game changer for comfort and sound. So while tempted try either the Evo or MTW3 I have a feeling will just be a side grade and the Fokus Pro at over $400 Cad is just to rich for my blood and I still own the WI-1000X for a dose of Sony sound. I am starting to think maybe i should buy something like a Nintendo Switch Lite and play some games...

The only other TWS is the Linkbuds and don't think the battery life will be good enough...

Will watch the Evo, MTW3 and linkbud reviews and threads...


----------



## FSTOP

dyh said:


> Thanks for the info, and hopefully you can find something that's ideal for you.
> 
> Did you try AZLA Xelastec, or AZLA Crystal Tips?
> 
> ...


I have most if not all of the Azla offerings, and they are some of my favorite tips! I did TRY to put some tips on them, but it was very difficult with the nozzle. With the defective order or BT problem (no sound in one bud), I decided to send it back without tip-rolling to find the best fit though. 
Yes, I hope Noble or someone does make a similar tws in a smaller shell some day. Like I said, I think they are beautiful and probably amazing SQ for tws, but unfortunately my ear anatomy just doesn't work well with bigger shells.


----------



## productred (May 11, 2022)

dweaver said:


> TWS is limited by two things in my opinion.
> 
> One is the BT technology itself. It is a technology designed more for transmitting digital information such as keyboard and mouse and as such is not inherently good enough to transmit sound information without the use of a lossy format (losing data). The sound quality can be improved by dividing up the responsibility of the chip receiving the digital signal from managing everything. The challenge is by separating different components from the BT chip you need more electronics making the internals bigger.
> 
> ...



Well said, that's why the best sounding TWS are so far those designed with a dedicated air chamber for physical tuning as well as (in some cases) a metal driver enclosure - HA-FW1000t, AKG, Final siblings etc. I'd say they are acoustics-focused in their design rather then purely relying on DSP to tune a crap DD driver (or even hybrids) thrown into an ABS housing to sound like a fart cannon (that leads to many MANY TWS are distinctly V-shaped sounding with boomy mid-bass and substance-less mids, while also boosting the presence range for a "modern" signature that can't be farther away from the realm of fidelity).


----------



## james444

samandhi said:


> You need to try a really good set of classic earbuds to see what you are missing between the type of buds you are talking about. While the fruit devices are indeed open sounding, they are still limited on the soundstage and separation compared to true earbuds (which is what the Linkbuds are) because they are still directed by a narrow opening into the ear (they are more like an open IEM than a true earbud), whereas an earbud is round, sits outside your ear, and you hear it much like you would a set of speakers. Basically Sony created a set of classic earbuds that are TWS. I honestly don't think they overengineered these at all if you understand what they were trying to achieve with these. I don't think they were trying to copy the Airpods (but just more complicated) at all, but were trying to make true classic earbuds while having TWS.
> 
> While classic earbuds are a niche thing nowadays, they are still VERY popular (and for good reason). Take some of the best open back circumaural (over-ear) headphones, and shrink them into IEM size. IEMs and even semi-in-ears cannot match that staging; though semi-in-ear buds can come much closer than IEMs can.
> 
> ...



What makes you think that I don't have experience with classic earbuds? Actually, I've been in and out of these ever since the first Yuin PK series. And my latest acquisition has been at the recommendation of one well-known Mr. ClieOS, who wrote the following about it:


ClieOS said:


> Maria has a mostly neutral sound that slightly tilting toward warmth. Good end-to-end reach with an exceptionally opened soundstage, biggest of any earbuds I ever listened to.



Also, I think I know a bit about the intricacies of measuring such type of earbuds:  


james444 said:


> Rose Maria II raw measurements with different levels of seal:



That said, I don't concur with drawing an (imo artificial) line between classic flathead and side-firing earbuds. While there's a justified distinction in terms of acoustics between full-sealing IEMs and open (non-sealing) earbuds, I don't see where that kind of distinction might be between the classic flathead and side-firing types? In my understanding, both types rely on the proximity effect for bass. Which means, the closer they're placed towards your ear canal (but still without seal), the bassier they'll sound - as demonstrated in my measurements of Rose Maria II.

Anyway, don't want to derail this thread any further, I'll just say that I have side-firing TWS earbuds that match if not exceed RM II in soundstage size and openness. Of course, perception of soundstage is subjective and may vary between different listeners, so that's just my personal 2c on that topic.


----------



## Sam L

james444 said:


> What makes you think that I don't have experience with classic earbuds? Actually, I've been in and out of these ever since the first Yuin PK series. And my latest acquisition has been at the recommendation of one well-known Mr. ClieOS, who wrote the following about it:
> 
> 
> Also, I think I know a bit about the intricacies of measuring such type of earbuds:
> ...


thx for the maria ii measurements. I haven't setup my measurement rig on my new laptop yet (which isn't hard, but I run autoeq and it can be hit or miss getting python installed easily.) That 2k spike is a bit too much for me. I still listen to the maria ii frequently but they aren't my favorite bud by a large margin.


----------



## Devodonaldson

JoshG1217 said:


> So, as far as TWS adapter, I bought the UTWS5 as soon as it came out, and I used the z1r with them... at the gym. My experience is that it didn't sound better than the XM4, which was a bummer, but I think the true issue was lack of power. The z1r need some power to make them shine. Paired with the Ifi idsd signature, they sounded flipping brilliant. with UTWS5, not so much. I considered going with a more easily powered iem, but that's just another rabbit hole... but I guess this whole hobby is that. My wife gives me the side eye every time something shows up on our porch.


I can understand this. Tried utws5 with Audeze Euclid and I felt is was ok. Planar like power. With my CA Solaris, the utws5 sound great. Unlike with my Sony zx507 Dap, the utws5 gives the Solaris some needed low end authority. Really enjoy the sound from that combo


----------



## Ceeluh7

dyh said:


> Any thoughts on which Earphone Tips (stock or 3rd party) are best with the Fokus Pros?


I use the kbear 07 tips. It gives the Fokus pro a nice punch without congestion or mud. Opens up the soundstage a bit as well as these tips are more of a wide bore tip but really firm, with a firm stem, more firm flange to seal. I was using the final tips but things got a bit too closed in with those.


----------



## Ceeluh7

jant71 said:


> Yep, the Ikko is the best sounding one but a bit bigger/heavier. The IKKO is always scary for reports of reliability issues. Too scary to run around and shoot some hoops or whack a ball around with that one.


All good points... I think I remember talking about these with you now. Yeah a bit large


----------



## Devodonaldson

Ceeluh7 said:


> I use the kbear 07 tips. It gives the Fokus pro a nice punch without congestion or mud. Opens up the soundstage a bit as well as these tips are more of a wide bore tip but really firm, with a firm stem, more firm flange to seal. I was using the final tips but things got a bit too closed in with those.


Ah...and that was my issue with the stock tips. The stem was too firm foe me, leading to discomfort in the ear canal after 30 min or so. Had to do some searching, looking for mildly open to wide bore. Found some aofr generic that I had that are a happy compromise on all accounts. Love the Fokus, like the Falcon Pro now that I put Final type E and tamed the treble a bit


----------



## Caipirina

The closed Linkbuds option some here might have waited for … spotted over on AliExpress… terrible shipping time though. Arrival July 10th… yikes. 
Could be interesting, or disastrous.


----------



## scubaphish (May 11, 2022)

Looks like Amazon sold out of initial stock of MTW3. Anyone happen to know  Sennheiser return policy?  Says “allowed within timeframe” without saying what timeframe is. Just says that it’s on order confirm…but I’d like to know before I make purchase.


----------



## BooleanBones

scubaphish said:


> Looks like Amazon sold out of initial stock of MTW3. Anyone happen to know  Sennheiser return policy?  Says “allowed within timeframe” without saying what timeframe is. Just says that it’s on order confirm…but I’d like to know before I make purchase.


I believe they are the standard 30 days as well. Might be worth a call to them if no one has an experience with them.


----------



## Ceeluh7 (May 11, 2022)

Devodonaldson said:


> Ah...and that was my issue with the stock tips. The stem was too firm foe me, leading to discomfort in the ear canal after 30 min or so. Had to do some searching, looking for mildly open to wide bore. Found some aofr generic that I had that are a happy compromise on all accounts. Love the Fokus, like the Falcon Pro now that I put Final type E and tamed the treble a bit


Final tips will most certainly do that. I actually didn't dislike the final tips at all on the Fokus pro. Also they don't completely dismantle the upper regions of the mix, just smooths them out a bit. The soundstage closed a little bit but nothing really destroys the Fokus pro unless you have a horrible seal. Nice man


----------



## scubaphish

BooleanBones said:


> I believe they are the standard 30 days as well. Might be worth a call to them if no one has an experience with them.


I found it. Not sure why first 2 times I went to site I couldn’t find it. 30 days


----------



## jant71

Caipirina said:


> The closed Linkbuds option some here might have waited for … spotted over on AliExpress… terrible shipping time though. Arrival July 10th… yikes.
> Could be interesting, or disastrous.


Think we knew it was coming. Sony should have included this type of thing. Need red for R and blue for L of course.


----------



## helmutcheese

How do those work (never seen them before)?


----------



## jant71 (May 11, 2022)

Of course just go to the Home depot or hardware store or Amazon and get your Linkbud plugs much faster. I might go wood with some nice purple heart color stain....



 If there was ever a DIY mod this is as good as any. All you need is to measure the opening right to get the right fit


----------



## helmutcheese

Those look more like natural buttplugs! 🤣


----------



## BigZ12

Update MTW3.

Still experiencing the clipping of sound while chewing/moving mouth. (no pops or similar like the Devialet, but clipping)

Walked outside earlier today, chewing gum. The left bud was almost unusable. Clips in audio at least a couple of times every minute. Annoying!!! 

Tried A LOT of tips, only the large Comply Foam TW-200-C limit the problem a little. But SQ with the Comply is way worse than with all silicon and included tips.

Anyone else hearing this? Could it be something faulty? 
Left bud/ear is far worse than right, and problem only with ANC on.


----------



## samandhi

james444 said:


> What makes you think that I don't have experience with classic earbuds? Actually, I've been in and out of these ever since the first Yuin PK series. And my latest acquisition has been at the recommendation of one well-known Mr. ClieOS, who wrote the following about it:
> 
> Also, I think I know a bit about the intricacies of measuring such type of earbuds:
> 
> ...


I WAS trying to be helpful, to which you apparently took offense. So, I guess since you know way more than me, I will shut-up! Have a great day!


Caipirina said:


> The closed Linkbuds option some here might have waited for … spotted over on AliExpress… terrible shipping time though. Arrival July 10th… yikes.
> Could be interesting, or disastrous.


LOL maybe they should title them as PNC add-ons (passive noise cancellation). Then they could charge more with a proper-sounding title... 



jant71 said:


> Of course just go to the Home depot or hardware store or Amazon and get your Linkbud plugs much faster. I might go wood with some nice purple heart color stain....
> 
> If there was ever a DIY mod this is as good as any. All you need is to measure the opening right to get the right fit


Oh those are great!  But maybe it would be even easier to just jab a pencil in that hole (though it might be pretty dangerous if moving.... AT ALL)...


----------



## Tenlow

BigZ12 said:


> Update MTW3.
> 
> Still experiencing the clipping of sound while chewing/moving mouth. (no pops or similar like the Devialet, but clipping)
> 
> ...


Haven't seen anybody besides you, yet. Not even on reddit where more and more people have the MTW3 as well. I cannot reproduce it no matter what I chew  It might be faulty, yes. 

Send or bring them back if you can and try another pair. Only then you can be really sure.


----------



## Tommy C

jant71 said:


> Of course just go to the Home depot or hardware store or Amazon and get your Linkbud plugs much faster. I might go wood with some nice purple heart color stain....
> 
> If there was ever a DIY mod this is as good as any. All you need is to measure the opening right to get the right fit


That’s hilarious


----------



## jant71

I had to be cute with the wood. Buuut, you can indeed find some silicone or rubber stoppers to work with the Linkbuds for sure esp. in some place with a good plumbing section.


----------



## BigZ12

Tenlow said:


> Haven't seen anybody besides you, yet. Not even on reddit where more and more people have the MTW3 as well. I cannot reproduce it no matter what I chew  It might be faulty, yes.
> 
> Send or bring them back if you can and try another pair. Only then you can be really sure.


If, while they sit in the ear with music on, you wiggle them a little? Do you get any disturbance? Clipping?


----------



## jant71

BigZ12 said:


> Update MTW3.
> 
> Still experiencing the clipping of sound while chewing/moving mouth. (no pops or similar like the Devialet, but clipping)
> 
> ...


Did you activate the wind noise reduction and see what happens?


----------



## iFi audio

JoshG1217 said:


> The z1r need some power to make them shine. Paired with the Ifi idsd signature, they sounded flipping brilliant.



Thanks for mentioning that setup. We got some feedback that z1rs go rather nicely with iDSD Sig and xDSD Gryphon, so there's probably something there. Thanks!


----------



## Tenlow

BigZ12 said:


> If, while they sit in the ear with music on, you wiggle them a little? Do you get any disturbance? Clipping?


None of that, no.


----------



## helmutcheese

ELJEFEREVIEWS
OP·2 hr. ago

Google Pixel Buds Pro
- $199 (Pre-Order 7/21)
- 4 Colors
- 11hr Playback
- ANC + Ambient Modes
- Multipoint Connectivity
- Google Assistant
- Spatial Audio (Coming Soon)
- Find My Device Support








https://www.reddit.com/r/Earbuds/comments/unh2xy/google_pixel_buds_pro_announced/


----------



## Trager

BigZ12 said:


> Update MTW3.
> 
> Still experiencing the clipping of sound while chewing/moving mouth. (no pops or similar like the Devialet, but clipping)
> 
> ...


Yeap. I’m having a similar problem, except in the right ear. Sitting extremely still in my quiet office, the right ear keeps popping. Also, I’m getting a lot of white noise background on that side.


----------



## BigZ12

jant71 said:


> Did you activate the wind noise reduction and see what happens?


It's the same with wind noise reduction, I'm afraid


----------



## Trager

Yeah, this is definitely an ANC thing. It’s fine with ANC off, but either anti-wind or On and I get popping at random intervals in my right ear.


----------



## JoshG1217

So sedna light mediums worked for me on the fokus. Spiral dots sounded like poop. Medium Azla crystal worked as well, but the light sounds closer to the original sednas, which is to say they sound a little better.

Also got the evo today. Probably not fair to compare to xm4 and focus, but they definitely aren't as good as either. I had to update them to use ldac. App works pretty well. Stock tips are trash. For 150, I'd probably go ze3000 over evo, those obviously are not feature rich.


----------



## Bobbetybob

helmutcheese said:


> ELJEFEREVIEWS
> OP·2 hr. ago
> 
> Google Pixel Buds Pro
> ...


Some extra interesting bits from the product page:
11mm drivers, 5 band EQ, volume based EQ  (trying to keep everything balanced as the volume goes up and down, interesting idea), pliable ear tips (sounds like foams or maybe a hybrid like Sony), some kind of pressure relief system, wireless charging.

I've been using the A Series Pixel Buds as my main buds for a while now because the fit is perfect for me, they sound pleasant, the case is a nice size and I like the fact they're not full on ear plugs. 

I think these could be one of the better mainstream options out there if they keep the same kind of sound signature, there's no glaring hardware issues and the fit is good.


----------



## BigZ12

Trager said:


> Yeap. I’m having a similar problem, except in the right ear. Sitting extremely still in my quiet office, the right ear keeps popping. Also, I’m getting a lot of white noise background on that side.


No popping or clipping with ANC off, and when sitting still and keeping mouth closed/still. Then they sound amazing!

But with ANC/Wind ON, opening and closing mouth makes them clip the sound a tenth of a second. (can't explain it better) 
Almost exclusively on the left side with me. I know from earlier iems/tws that there's something about the inner ear movements/jawbone in the left ear that triggers these kind of "disturbance". 

I can remember examples like driver flex on Fiio FH3, popping with the Geminis, a little noise/popping with the XM4 and now this... 
No problem with Lypertek Tevi (they still sound great btw), Beats Fit Pro, Airpods Pro, M&D MW08S for ex..

No white noise except when using Transparency mode.


----------



## Trager

Oh yeah. I’m 99% certain my MTW3 are defective. Right earbud just did some weird squealing and static-y noise thing in middle of a song. That can’t be “normal”.


----------



## Trager

BigZ12 said:


> No popping or clipping with ANC off, and when sitting still and keeping mouth closed/still. Then they sound amazing!
> 
> But with ANC/Wind ON, opening and closing mouth makes them clip the sound a tenth of a second. (can't explain it better)
> Almost exclusively on the left side with me. I know from earlier iems/tws that there's something about the inner ear movements/jawbone in the left ear that triggers these kind of "disturbance".
> ...


Agreed, with ANC off they sound pretty good (I prefer a slightly brighter sound than these have, tbh). I’m pretty sure I’m not doing any movement, though — I’ve worn IEMs for a very long time, and have had a number of TWS with ANC and never had this problem before. 

The white noise seems to come and go on the right side. Like I said in my post a couple minutes ago, I’m pretty sure I have a defective one.


----------



## BigZ12

Trager said:


> Oh yeah. I’m 99% certain my MTW3 are defective. Right earbud just did some weird squealing and static-y noise thing in middle of a song. That can’t be “normal”.


I have had similar "squeaking", when using tips that were too big (Spinfit CP360 large). 
Back to mediums now, and I just get the "clipping". :/


----------



## BigZ12

Trager said:


> Agreed, with ANC off they sound pretty good (I prefer a slightly brighter sound than these have, tbh). I’m pretty sure I’m not doing any movement, though — I’ve worn IEMs for a very long time, and have had a number of TWS with ANC and never had this problem before.
> 
> The white noise seems to come and go on the right side. Like I said in my post a couple minutes ago, I’m pretty sure I have a defective one.


Yes if you sit still/not "chewing" and you still get popping, occasional squealing/white noise, I would guess you have a faulty bud. 
I'm going to call Sennheiser tomorrow.


----------



## jant71 (May 11, 2022)

BigZ12 said:


> It's the same with wind noise reduction, I'm afraid


If you swap right and left does it still do it? I'm thinking it is crinkle and the one side builds up pressure with ANC on and can't vent as well as the other side which has no issue. Trying to see if it is the one bud itself or your ear seal and the other side would do it as well. If it is not your ear then it should be the one side and you can exchange them and try again. I'm leaning to some excess glue or something making a vent not as effective but not an issue till using ANC.

I could be onto something. Or not and it could be totally something else.


----------



## Trager

BigZ12 said:


> Yes if you sit still/not "chewing" and you still get popping, occasional squealing/white noise, I would guess you have a faulty bud.
> I'm going to call Sennheiser tomorrow.


I ordered mine from Amazon, so I could just send ‘em back there. You think it’s better to try to get a replacement from Senn?


----------



## BigZ12

Trager said:


> I ordered mine from Amazon, so I could just send ‘em back there. You think it’s better to try to get a replacement from Senn?


Here in Norway I know so, but Amazon is the way to go "over there" I guess.
Where I bought them, there's no exchange of TWSs. "Hygienic product" they call it.


----------



## BigZ12

jant71 said:


> If you swap right and left does it still do it? I'm thinking it is crinkle and the one side builds up pressure with ANC on and can't vent as well as the other side which has no issue. Trying to see if it is the one bud itself or your ear seal and the other side would do it as well. If it is not your ear then it should be the one side and you can exchange them and try again. I'm leaning to some excess glue or something making a vent not as effective but not an issue till using ANC.
> 
> I could be onto something. Or not and it could be totally something else.


Not easy to compare when swapping left and right, due to the construction. 
I think you're on to something about pressure building up. 
The clipping/disturbance is not present when I don't place the bud all the way in place, or I use small tips that doesn't seal 100%.

But won't comment or try anymore before I talk to Sennheiser tomorrow.
If I have some useful info, I will post it then.


----------



## DDDYKI

helmutcheese said:


> ELJEFEREVIEWS
> OP·2 hr. ago
> 
> Google Pixel Buds Pro
> ...


They don't mention codec support anywhere, so I'm going to assume AAC and SBC like the last model. Unfortunate.


----------



## BigZ12

BigZ12 said:


> If I have some useful info, I will post it then.


Sorry, but had to post a new find 

Found some Flexifit foam (L) I got with the Tevis.
Wow! No noise/popping/clipping at all, and SQ is on par with all silicon tips tested.
I think they work for me because they are noticably more shallow than other tips.


----------



## cresny

I finally tried the Technics AZ60. Coming from Devialet Gemini and AKG N400nc, the sound did not wow me at first, pretty tepid right off. I could not get anything satisfactory with app's EQ, but choosing AZ70's profile in Wavelet cranked up the 2-3k range considerably and that opened them up enough that I like them a lot now.

I really wanted them for the ANC and great battery life, and in that they do not disappoint, perhaps the best ANC I've heard, and their deep insertion passive isolation puts them over the top.

One thing that I don't think has been mentioned enough is how good their call performance is, not in that they have amazing clarity for the callee, but their "Just My Voice" feature does a great job of filtering out noise. I have an uncle in his 80's who's hard of hearing and he's always my test case. He gave these a thumbs-up for clarity, but more impressive was that I could do all kinds of stuff while conversing, e.g. using a power drill, washing dishes, etc. He uses a Bluetooth hearing aid on calls and he's always complaining about noise.


----------



## bladefd

helmutcheese said:


> ELJEFEREVIEWS
> OP·2 hr. ago
> 
> Google Pixel Buds Pro
> ...


No hi-res codec support unfortunately. Just aac.


----------



## Caipirina

jant71 said:


> Of course just go to the Home depot or hardware store or Amazon and get your Linkbud plugs much faster. I might go wood with some nice purple heart color stain....
> 
> If there was ever a DIY mod this is as good as any. All you need is to measure the opening right to get the right fit


That gave me ideas. 


Saved me 3$  
The results? Nothing mind boggling, they are not suddenly ’closed’ earbuds, the outside sound is a tad reduced and the bass is .. slightly different. Won’t even call it improved. More prominent, but muffled. Well, I can still try different materials. Tiny tinfoil torpedoes maybe.


----------



## erockg

Using the stock tips that were preinstalled on the Sennheiser MTW3 and I gotta say, these are so much better than the 2s.  So far so good.  Okay, only 5 mins in, but instant like.  More soon.


----------



## mt877 (May 11, 2022)

Caipirina said:


> The closed Linkbuds option some here might have waited for … spotted over on AliExpress… terrible shipping time though. Arrival July 10th… yikes.
> Could be interesting, or disastrous.


Made some silicon plugs for the LinkBuds about 2 months ago... They do increase the bass and provide some passive isolation.
I had some small pieces of flat silicone and used a leather hole punch. I was expecting the hole punch to cut out perfect silicone cylinders, but instead made the shapes in the picture. They fit perfectly in the LinkBuds hole.










Could use moldable silicone earplugs to seal up the hole. Just rip off a small piece and mold it into the LinkBuds hole.


----------



## james444

Caipirina said:


> That gave me ideas.
> 
> 
> Saved me 3$
> The results? Nothing mind boggling, they are not suddenly ’closed’ earbuds, the outside sound is a tad reduced and the bass is .. slightly different. Won’t even call it improved. More prominent, but muffled. Well, I can still try different materials. Tiny tinfoil torpedoes maybe.





mt877 said:


> Made some silicon plugs for the LinkBuds about 2 months ago... They do increase the bass and provide some passive isolation.
> I had some small pieces of flat silicone and used a leather hole punch. I was expecting the hole punch to cut out perfect silicone cylinders, but instead made the shapes in the picture. They fit perfectly in the LinkBuds hole.
> 
> 
> ...



Closing that hole entirely will likely increase distortion manyfold in the bass region, that's what makes them sound muffled. You can try to leave at least a small venting canal open, possibly by punching or piercing a narrow vent through that plug. This should still give you a bit more bass quantity vs. stock, but cause less damage to sound quality.


----------



## mt877

james444 said:


> Closing that hole entirely will likely increase distortion manyfold in the bass region, that's what makes them sound muffled. You can try to leave at least a small venting canal open, possibly by punching or piercing a narrow vent through that plug. This should still give you a bit more bass quantity vs. stock, but cause less damage to sound quality.


I don't use the plugs. I was experimenting a couple months ago and just wanted to show what I made. The sound signature of the LinkBuds is much better as originally designed.


----------



## BigZ12

erockg said:


> Using the stock tips that were preinstalled on the Sennheiser MTW3 and I gotta say, these are so much better than the 2s.  So far so good.  Okay, only 5 mins in, but instant like.  More soon.


Do you experience what I have been "rambling" about for two pages?  (clipping/disturbance in sound with movement like chewing etc)


----------



## scubaphish

Time to try out some new earphones. I’ve sold my Gemini and although I’m enjoying the APP with ePro horn tips (thanks @BooleanBones )  they’re just not enough. 
Fokus pro arriving today and just ordered the MTW3 from Audio46, so couple of days until that toy arrives. 
Wish me luck on the adventure down the rabbit hole.


----------



## DDDYKI

cresny said:


> I finally tried the Technics AZ60. Coming from Devialet Gemini and AKG N400nc, the sound did not wow me at first, pretty tepid right off. I could not get anything satisfactory with app's EQ, but choosing AZ70's profile in Wavelet cranked up the 2-3k range considerably and that opened them up enough that I like them a lot now.
> 
> I really wanted them for the ANC and great battery life, and in that they do not disappoint, perhaps the best ANC I've heard, and their deep insertion passive isolation puts them over the top.
> 
> One thing that I don't think has been mentioned enough is how good their call performance is, not in that they have amazing clarity for the callee, but their "Just My Voice" feature does a great job of filtering out noise. I have an uncle in his 80's who's hard of hearing and he's always my test case. He gave these a thumbs-up for clarity, but more impressive was that I could do all kinds of stuff while conversing, e.g. using a power drill, washing dishes, etc. He uses a Bluetooth hearing aid on calls and he's always complaining about noise.


I just bit the bullet and picked up a pair, arriving tomorrow. Part of me really wanted to be drawn to the MTW 3, but the codecs put me off and it seems Technics has a hit here. I have some Spinfit tips coming sometime this century (as I'm no longer a Prime member, we'll see) and looking forward to it. If they sit in the case properly, unlike the B&O E8 3.0, I will be pleased enough.


----------



## scubaphish (May 12, 2022)

DDDYKI said:


> I just bit the bullet and picked up a pair, arriving tomorrow. Part of me really wanted to be drawn to the MTW 3, but the codecs put me off and it seems Technics has a hit here. I have some Spinfit tips coming sometime this century (as I'm no longer a Prime member, we'll see) and looking forward to it. If they sit in the case properly, unlike the B&O E8 3.0, I will be pleased enough.


They were/are on my list to try, too. I was put off by stories of fit and being too big. I’m sure I should just try out for myself, but…


----------



## erockg

BigZ12 said:


> Do you experience what I have been "rambling" about for two pages?  (clipping/disturbance in sound with movement like chewing etc)


Nothing yet.  I only used them for a hour of music then an hour of an audiobook.  I'll be using them all day on calls, zooms and music.  I'll report back if I find any abnormalities.  I might do some tip rolling, but the stock on the Sennies usually do well for me.


----------



## erockg

scubaphish said:


> Time to try out some new earphones. I’ve sold my Gemini and although I’m enjoying the APP with ePro horn tips (thanks @BooleanBones )  they’re just not enough.
> Fokus pro arriving today and just ordered the MTW3 from Audio46, so couple of days until that toy arrives.
> Wish me luck on the adventure down the rabbit hole.


I have all the above.  Including Boos recommended ePro tips   I'll be stunned if you don't love the sound of the Fokus.  My B&O EX beat the EQ so the EQ are going and the Astell&Kern are coming tomorrow from BH Photo.  Ugh, this hobby causes madness.


----------



## BooleanBones

My one big annoyance with the EX is the ambient/transparency seems really weak. Surprisingly to me, I think the MTW3 transparency performs very well and not real artificial sounding as some of the other TWS I have. AZ60s/APP are the only ones I have that compare in what I have heard so far. Will do some more A/B testing on this though.


----------



## scubaphish (May 12, 2022)

erockg said:


> I have all the above.  Including Boos recommended ePro tips   I'll be stunned if you don't love the sound of the Fokus.  My B&O EX beat the EQ so the EQ are going and the Astell&Kern are coming tomorrow from BH Photo.  Ugh, this hobby causes madness.


I’ll be stunned, too. I’ve been coveting them for some time. Finally took the plunge.

I never fell in love with the EQ like I did with the Gemini. Fit wasn’t there so maybe sound was impacted.


----------



## jant71 (May 12, 2022)

BooleanBones said:


> My one big annoyance with the EX is the ambient/transparency seems really weak. Surprisingly to me, I think the MTW3 transparency performs very well and not real artificial sounding as some of the other TWS I have. AZ60s/APP are the only ones I have that compare in what I have heard so far. Will do some more A/B testing on this though.


Isn't transparency adjustable in the EX' app?


----------



## erockg

BooleanBones said:


> My one big annoyance with the EX is the ambient/transparency seems really weak. Surprisingly to me, I think the MTW3 transparency performs very well and not real artificial sounding as some of the other TWS I have. AZ60s/APP are the only ones I have that compare in what I have heard so far. Will do some more A/B testing on this though.


I totally agree with you re: the EX transparency.  I keep trying tips and adjustments and sometimes that helps, but something is weak for sure.


----------



## erockg

jant71 said:


> Isn't transparency adjustable in the EX' app?


It is, but it doesn't help.  Not sure what's up.  Maybe a mic is blocked by the fit or they need an update.


scubaphish said:


> I’ll be stunned, too. I’ve been coveting them for some time. Finally took the plunge.
> 
> I never fell in love with the EQ like I did with the Gemini. Fit wasn’t there so maybe sound was impacted.


EX fit sooooooo much better than the EQ.  I agree, the Gemini were great.  They had little bugs, but the sound.  Hopefully, gen 2 streamlines that case and irons out the issues.  They nailed the soundstage for sure.  I could never use them walking outdoors.  They make movement noises not matter what tips I tried.


----------



## BooleanBones

jant71 said:


> Isn't transparency adjustable in the EX' app?


yeah, but max setting is still very weak (1, 2, or 3)


----------



## BooleanBones

If anyone needs, audio46 just sent a mail stating they have the UTWS5 adapters in stock.


----------



## Ckro

erockg said:


> Using the stock tips that were preinstalled on the Sennheiser MTW3 and I gotta say, these are so much better than the 2s.  So far so good.  Okay, only 5 mins in, but instant like.  More soon.


So I understand that the fit is good for you with the MTW3?


----------



## stacey

Been listening to these two back-and-forth for the past three days. I’m likely to return one of them, I’ll give a bit more impressions later. But what I can say is that the EX is the better of the two.


----------



## jant71

BooleanBones said:


> yeah, but max setting is still very weak (1, 2, or 3)


How 'bout EX transparency vs. the Yamaha's?


----------



## Trager

DDDYKI said:


> I just bit the bullet and picked up a pair, arriving tomorrow. Part of me really wanted to be drawn to the MTW 3, but the codecs put me off and it seems Technics has a hit here. I have some Spinfit tips coming sometime this century (as I'm no longer a Prime member, we'll see) and looking forward to it. If they sit in the case properly, unlike the B&O E8 3.0, I will be pleased enough.


I really liked the AZ60 except their ANC with respect to wind noise was just nowhere near good enough for me. Otherwise, they’re a fine set of TWS. The MTW3 seem like they have better ANC except for my apparently defective right side.


----------



## pitman907

Hello everyone. Just desperate to find an open back in ear monitor for our upcoming gig that is below $200. We don't want to feel isolated when using in ear monitors. We just need it for extra support so we can hear ourselves better. But still be able to hear ambient noise. Can you please help us? Thank you very much!


----------



## BooleanBones

jant71 said:


> How 'bout EX transparency vs. the Yamaha's?


I'll check. Between Hockey and my new toys, the Yamahas have been getting the cold shoulder


----------



## erockg

Ckro said:


> So I understand that the fit is good for you with the MTW3?


Perfect for me.  Been using them on Zoom and calls all day. Zero issues with comfort.  Callers hear me perfectly fine too.


----------



## BooleanBones

jant71 said:


> How 'bout EX transparency vs. the Yamaha's?


Yamaha is much better for sure.


----------



## Not so fat head

pitman907 said:


> Hello everyone. Just desperate to find an open back in ear monitor for our upcoming gig that is below $200. We don't want to feel isolated when using in ear monitors. We just need it for extra support so we can hear ourselves better. But still be able to hear ambient noise. Can you please help us? Thank you very much!


Hi Pitman, 
You can still find Bose Soundsports free’s on the net, around $80 - $120..
These are open back by design, with an amazing wide soundstage…
Might be what you’re looking for..


----------



## scubaphish

Fokus first impressions. 
Fit is remarkable. I can’t believe how well they just sit and with such a strong seal. I think better than any other buds I’ve had. I warned my wife these don’t have transparency and isolate really well. She said “that sounds dangerous”. What do you think that means?
If I’m honest, first thoughts on sound were “oh no, not like the PI7 again! I thought there were drivers for the mids and highs.”  I just couldn’t hear the armatures. But then I remembered you can turn them here…and oh baby!  Turn them up I did and they are beautiful!! Have a bit of a step up working through the mids to the highs and they just sing. 
MTW3 arrive tomorrow.


----------



## clerkpalmer

Just grabbed an AZ60 open box on eBay. Not entirely sure why.


----------



## erockg

clerkpalmer said:


> Just grabbed an AZ60 open box on eBay. Not entirely sure why.


Do you really want me to answer that -- ?


----------



## BooleanBones

scubaphish said:


> Fokus first impressions.
> Fit is remarkable. I can’t believe how well they just sit and with such a strong seal. I think better than any other buds I’ve had. I warned my wife these don’t have transparency and isolate really well. She said “that sounds dangerous”. What do you think that means?
> If I’m honest, first thoughts on sound were “oh no, not like the PI7 again! I thought there were drivers for the mids and highs.”  I just couldn’t hear the armatures. But then I remembered you can turn them here…and oh baby!  Turn them up I did and they are beautiful!! Have a bit of a step up working through the mids to the highs and they just sing.
> MTW3 arrive tomorrow.


Don't forget to try out there listening test in the app. Kind of a cool feature to mess with.


----------



## erockg

scubaphish said:


> Fokus first impressions.
> Fit is remarkable. I can’t believe how well they just sit and with such a strong seal. I think better than any other buds I’ve had. I warned my wife these don’t have transparency and isolate really well. She said “that sounds dangerous”. What do you think that means?
> If I’m honest, first thoughts on sound were “oh no, not like the PI7 again! I thought there were drivers for the mids and highs.”  I just couldn’t hear the armatures. But then I remembered you can turn them here…and oh baby!  Turn them up I did and they are beautiful!! Have a bit of a step up working through the mids to the highs and they just sing.
> MTW3 arrive tomorrow.


I've had my Sennies in my ears since 10:25 am.  Music on and off, calls, two Zooms and random transparency mode to watch the Mets game.  Even walked around the house with my iPhone in the other room.  No dropouts that were abnormal.  Still at 30%.  No fit issues and no pain.  These are good.  I definitely feel they're an upgrade.


----------



## clerkpalmer

erockg said:


> Do you really want me to answer that -- ?


… asked the drug addict to his alcoholic friend.


----------



## erockg

clerkpalmer said:


> … asked the drug addict to his alcoholic friend.


----------



## tonyfiore75

erockg said:


> I've had my Sennies in my ears since 10:25 am.  Music on and off, calls, two Zooms and random transparency mode to watch the Mets game.  Even walked around the house with my iPhone in the other room.  No dropouts that were abnormal.  Still at 30%.  No fit issues and no pain.  These are good.  I definitely feel they're an upgrade.


I just received mine yesterday and I have to say that I'm very happy with them so far. I'll post more details later. I'm using Final Audio sleeves with them and I'm getting a great seal. They're very engaging!


----------



## erockg

tonyfiore75 said:


> I just received mine yesterday and I have to say that I'm very happy with them so far. I'll post more details later. I'm using Final Audio sleeves with them and I'm getting a great seal. They're very engaging!


I'll try out the FA tips too.  Been perfectly fine with stock, but who knows!


----------



## scubaphish

BooleanBones said:


> Don't forget to try out there listening test in the app. Kind of a cool feature to mess with.


I don’t see it, just the eq


----------



## samandhi

Not so fat head said:


> Hi Pitman,
> You can still find Bose Soundsports free’s on the net, around $80 - $120..
> These are open back by design, with an amazing wide soundstage…
> Might be what you’re looking for..


@pitman907 These ARE fantastic for what they are (and that is a great price compared to when they were new), but keep in mind that they are connected ALL the time (or try to be) and therefore will use the case battery up in a few days... always. There is no way to power these down. You can leave them out of the case, and they will go to sleep, using less battery overall, but inevitably they still use power all the time. This has been a complaint since they first came out (which I have had mine since not long after that time) to which Bose has never answered. 

I finally gave mine to my son because, while I did use them, I didn't use them often enough to justify the slow death that they were going through. My son uses them at least a little each day, so it is more worthwhile. Oh man, do they have some quantity of bass for an open TWS BTW!


----------



## BooleanBones

scubaphish said:


> I don’t see it, just the eq


If I recall, it's under personalized mode in the EQ


----------



## Not so fat head

PI7’s are very good…. All B&W need to do, is bundle a 5-7 band equalizer to the next APP update…
For my iPhone, treble boost sounds best.
For my Sony A55, using APTX, default seems to be the only option, but does sound fantastic.
I have an earlier Sony based on android and the 5 band EQ works here, again sounds great, but restricted to highSBC.
Overall a great bargain for the $299 sale price 👍

Please B&W, get that EQ out!!!!


----------



## samandhi

Not so fat head said:


> PI7’s are very good…. All B&W need to do, is bundle a 5-7 band equalizer to the next APP update…
> For my iPhone, treble boost sounds best.
> For my Sony A55, using APTX, default seems to be the only option, but does sound fantastic.
> I have an earlier Sony based on android and the 5 band EQ works here, again sounds great, but restricted to highSBC.
> ...


Anymore that has become one of the few things left that I like about the Samsung phones (still rockin' Note 9 here). They have a system wide EQ that works pretty well, plus the "Adapt Sound" feature that basically does a hearing test and auto-EQs based on the frequencies you can and cannot hear. Overall it works a treat (when I use my phone, that is). 

But I DO like having an EQ built into the app for the TWS because normally it will stay with them if/when you use another device whether you have the app installed or not on the other device.


----------



## Tenlow

Not so fat head said:


> PI7’s are very good…. All B&W need to do, is bundle a 5-7 band equalizer to the next APP update…
> For my iPhone, treble boost sounds best.
> For my Sony A55, using APTX, default seems to be the only option, but does sound fantastic.
> I have an earlier Sony based on android and the 5 band EQ works here, again sounds great, but restricted to highSBC.
> ...


Well, they haven't updated the (iOS) app for 9 months and haven't pushed out a single firmware update for the PI7 since their release as far as I know...so yeah...I wouldn't hold my breath.


----------



## Not so fat head

Looks like until these manufacturer’s can put out app’s that can fully optimize their TWS or over ear phones, we’re just going to have to match our TWS choices, to the Spec’s of our players.
Kind of frustrating…


----------



## Not so fat head

Tenlow said:


> Well, they haven't updated the (iOS) app for 9 months and haven't pushed out a single firmware update for the PI7 since their release as far as I know...so yeah...I wouldn't hold my breath.


Yep, we’ll see if B&W is serious about this product category….  Have to invest to compete, too much competition otherwise..
Thank you for the info!!


----------



## samandhi

Not so fat head said:


> Looks like until these manufacturer’s can put out app’s that can fully optimize their TWS or over ear phones, we’re just going to have to match our TWS choices, to the Spec’s of our players.
> Kind of frustrating…


Fortunately for me, I use my DAP most of the time. For streaming, I use Amazon HD (which has an EQ), and Neutron for local files (which has some of the best DSP that I have seen). 

I find it funny because soon my DAP will have a newer version of android than my phone. I just hope that it will include AptX adaptive. From what I have read (don't have a link ATM) AptX and AptX HD is going away for adaptive.


----------



## assassin10000

pitman907 said:


> Hello everyone. Just desperate to find an open back in ear monitor for our upcoming gig that is below $200. We don't want to feel isolated when using in ear monitors. We just need it for extra support so we can hear ourselves better. But still be able to hear ambient noise. Can you please help us? Thank you very much!



Sounds like you may be looking for wired IEMs for stage use? If so, maybe you can find a deal for the Westone AM Pro 10, 20 or 30.

Otherwise poke around the chifi or budget iem threads. This one is for TWS.


Unless you have a Bluetooth transmission system for stage use. In which case maybe something like the Sony WF-1000xm4 and adjust ambient mode's level to suit your environment.


----------



## erockg

pitman907 said:


> Hello everyone. Just desperate to find an open back in ear monitor for our upcoming gig that is below $200. We don't want to feel isolated when using in ear monitors. We just need it for extra support so we can hear ourselves better. But still be able to hear ambient noise. Can you please help us? Thank you very much!





assassin10000 said:


> Sounds like you may be looking for wired IEMs for stage use? If so, maybe you can find a deal for the Westone AM Pro 10, 20 or 30.
> 
> Otherwise poke around the chifi or budget iem threads. This one is for TWS.
> 
> ...


Westone has some new IEMs coming.

https://www.westoneaudiomachseries.com/


----------



## Ckro

erockg said:


> I've had my Sennies in my ears since 10:25 am.  Music on and off, calls, two Zooms and random transparency mode to watch the Mets game.  Even walked around the house with my iPhone in the other room.  No dropouts that were abnormal.  Still at 30%.  No fit issues and no pain.  These are good.  I definitely feel they're an upgrade.


These Sennies seem very promising for my hybrid use (music + work)


----------



## scubaphish

BooleanBones said:


> If I recall, it's under personalized mode in the EQ


I guess my fine hearing is shot cause I didn’t hear more than a few of those tones and eq got pushed up everywhere 🤣


----------



## pitman907

samandhi said:


> @pitman907 These ARE fantastic for what they are (and that is a great price compared to when they were new), but keep in mind that they are connected ALL the time (or try to be) and therefore will use the case battery up in a few days... always. There is no way to power these down. You can leave them out of the case, and they will go to sleep, using less battery overall, but inevitably they still use power all the time. This has been a complaint since they first came out (which I have had mine since not long after that time) to which Bose has never answered.
> 
> I finally gave mine to my son because, while I did use them, I didn't use them often enough to justify the slow death that they were going through. My son uses them at least a little each day, so it is more worthwhile. Oh man, do they have some quantity of bass for an open TWS BTW!


I think that soundsports free are wireless? I only have a wired in ear xvive system from sweetwater. I am replacing the shure earphones.


----------



## Toom

Sadly being forced to sell my Fokus Pros - check out the classifieds if anyone in the UK wants them for a bargain price.


----------



## LastFantasy (May 13, 2022)

Beyerdynamic's first True Wireless earbuds.  It was released in China a while ago.
Price: $338
beyerdynamic FREE BYRD
JD.com(Seller)


----------



## BooleanBones

scubaphish said:


> I guess my fine hearing is shot cause I didn’t hear more than a few of those tones and eq got pushed up everywhere 🤣


Let me try mine again. I know it needs to be quiet, but when I did it, I think I could not hear one out of the group. Will let you know.


----------



## BigZ12

LastFantasy said:


> beyerdynamic FREE BYRD



Massive!


----------



## DDDYKI (May 13, 2022)

Just got the AZ60 so I'll have a nice weekend playing with these.
Quick question: is this tape on the bottom of the box normal? Want to make sure I didn't get one that was opened previously (bought from B&H). Only one strip of tape that looks like it may be old enough to vote. 

EDIT: iFixit's teardown also shows one piece of tape on the box, just like where mine is. Time to dig in!


----------



## erockg

BooleanBones said:


> Let me try mine again. I know it needs to be quiet, but when I did it, I think I could not hear one out of the group. Will let you know.


You guys are OLD.


----------



## scubaphish

erockg said:


> You guys are OLD.


What’s that ya say sonny?


----------



## james444 (May 13, 2022)

pitman907 said:


> I think that soundsports free are wireless? I only have a wired in ear xvive system from sweetwater. I am replacing the shure earphones.



If I understand you correctly, you're looking for a *low isolation* wired in-ear stage monitor to plug into your xvive system?

Those are hard to find. The only ones that come to mind are the Sony MDR-7550 (EX800ST in Japan):
https://www.thephonograph.net/sony-mdr-ex7550-ex800st-review/

I believe the international 7550 version has been discontinued, but one can still get new Japanese EX800STs from Ebay or the like.


----------



## erockg

scubaphish said:


> What’s that ya say sonny?


What — ?


----------



## pitman907

james444 said:


> If I understand you correctly, you're looking for a *low isolation* wired in-ear stage monitor to plug into your xvive system?
> 
> Those are hard to find. The only ones that come to mind are the Sony MDR-7550 (EX800ST in Japan):
> https://www.thephonograph.net/sony-mdr-ex7550-ex800st-review/
> ...


That is correct! Just want to have some volume in my in ear but still our main source of audio are the stage monitors and my guitar amp behind me. I will check this out thank you so much!!!


----------



## jant71

erockg said:


> You guys are OLD.





You better show some respect Billy!!


----------



## TooFrank

BooleanBones said:


> do they charge ok with the spinfits?


Yes


----------



## jant71

erockg said:


> Westone has some new IEMs coming.
> 
> https://www.westoneaudiomachseries.com/


Yep, makes you feel good don't it, to get somebody to buy one of those overpriced remakes. Somebody forking out the now ridiculous $300 entry fee for their single driver model. You can be happy saying, at least I'm not that guy, while opening your latest TWS delivery.


----------



## TooFrank

samandhi said:


> I WAS trying to be helpful, to which you apparently took offense. So, I guess since you know way more than me, I will shut-up! Have a great day!
> 
> LOL maybe they should title them as PNC add-ons (passive noise cancellation). Then they could charge more with a proper-sounding title...
> 
> ...


Plug-ins?


----------



## cresny

Any AZ60 users get an issue on multipoint connection where it's stereo for the computer, but sound only out of right earbud for phone? The phone resumes as stereo if I disconnect the computer. First-world problems, I know .


----------



## samandhi

pitman907 said:


> I think that soundsports free are wireless? I only have a wired in ear xvive system from sweetwater. I am replacing the shure earphones.


Yes, they are. I thought that was what you were looking for, since this is the wireless thread... 

But you are still in luck because the wired version of the Bose Soundsport are still available, even though Bose no longer makes them. These are really open, even though they go partially into your ear. I have a set from years ago, and they actually have good sound. They are so comfortable IMO I forget they are in my ears.


----------



## erockg

FedEx just delivered new Astell & Kern UW100.  Nice full soundstage.  App is lacking, but the tuning is okay, better with the bass setting.  No ANC, but ambient works well.  Not as good as the SMTW3.  Passive isolation is very good with the tips I’m using right now.  Full touch controls that work well.  Voice sounds decent with calls.  Still tip rolling.  Now, I have way too many buds.  Ugh.


----------



## BooleanBones

erockg said:


> FedEx just delivered new Astell & Kern UW100.  Nice full soundstage.  App is lacking, but the tuning is okay, better with the bass setting.  No ANC, but ambient works well.  Not as good as the SMTW3.  Passive isolation is very good with the tips I’m using right now.  Full touch controls that work well.  Voice sounds decent with calls.  Still tip rolling.  Now, I have way too many buds.  Ugh.


Those AKs almost look like hub caps for your ears


----------



## erockg

BooleanBones said:


> Those AKs almost look like hub caps for your ears


They fit surprisingly well.  Vroom vroom!


----------



## tonyfiore75

erockg said:


> FedEx just delivered new Astell & Kern UW100.  Nice full soundstage.  App is lacking, but the tuning is okay, better with the bass setting.  No ANC, but ambient works well.  Not as good as the SMTW3.  Passive isolation is very good with the tips I’m using right now.  Full touch controls that work well.  Voice sounds decent with calls.  Still tip rolling.  Now, I have way too many buds.  Ugh.


What are those jellyfish looking tips you have on the AKs and the Senns? I've never seen those before (not that I'm some tip authority). And are they good?


----------



## erockg

tonyfiore75 said:


> What are those jellyfish looking tips you have on the AKs and the Senns? I've never seen those before (not that I'm some tip authority). And are they good?


Moondrop Spring Tips.  https://shenzhenaudio.com/products/...VqCP6OHR_wjeXEI-U76HSMUZ2HxcmJpcaAiSaEALw_wcB

Although, I just switched to the Devialet Gemini tips and AKs feel better in my ears over with the Moondrop tips.  I always go back and forth.


----------



## tombrisbane

Have been using the MTW3 and EX all week. Think I prefer the EX slightly based purely on music (it would be my best sounding TWS) but the MTW3 wins out overall.

MTW3 sounds very similar to the B&W PI7 to my ears, is comfortable and has pretty decent ANC.  EX sounds wonderful but the fit is still a bit funky (trying the large tips now which seem OK), ANC is lacking a bit but could be fit related, also had a couple of drop outs which I haven't experienced with the MTW3 to date.  I also solved my battery issue on the EX (R was continually charging, case battery was going down more than 50% per day), removed it from the app, left the buds out of the case for a bit, put them back in and then re-paired.  It's operating as I would expect now, given that solved it I'm assuming they can probably do something with a firmware update as well.  No fatigue on either of them.


----------



## DDDYKI (May 13, 2022)

Cannot for the life of me get the AZ60 to switch to LDAC. I have it enabled in Android Developer Options, I have it enabled in the Technics Audio Connect app (Prioritize sound quality/LDAC for headphones; even have Multipoint disabled and "Suppress the interruption of sound" set to Automatic, as the app recommends both), but the home screen of the app says AAC. And the codec in Android dev options keeps switching back to AAC. The option there for Bluetooth Audio LDAC Codec is grayed out, whether I have LDAC selected or not.
Ah, had to enable LDAC in Android's Bluetooth entry for the headphones. Sorry folks, carry on. I'll be back with impressions later this weekend. I'm sure I will be flubbing the new touch control settings the entire time, since I've been using the E8 3.0 for the last 2+ years.


----------



## C_Lindbergh (May 13, 2022)

A few hours in and the MTW3 became my new favourite TWS!

- Wonderful sound (bass and mid range feels just right, treble feels sparkly without causing fatigue)
- Best in class software features (customizable touch-controls, connections management pause music when ambient mode)
- Incredibly comfortable + great stability with the new wing tips
- Strong case hinge
- Wireless charging

I've yet to test call quality/ANC, but the latter seems great, it at least a massive improvement over the MTW2. If Sennheiser can add Multi-point then the MTW3 will further settle the highest status for me personally.  It wouldn't surprise me if the something like the EX sounds a bit better, but its way more expensive and lacks many of the vital software features that I so much appricieate with Sennheiser (and to some extent Technics). Just the fact that I can go from ANC/Music to Ambient/Pause music with a single touch is something that's very important to me.

The only negative I can say is that the case is still too big compared to many other competitors.


----------



## dweaver

C_Lindbergh said:


> A few hours in and the MTW3 became my new favourite TWS!
> 
> - Wonderful sound (bass and mid range feels just right, treble feels sparkly without causing fatigue)
> - Best in class software features (customizable touch-controls, connections management pause music when ambient mode)
> ...


Like the MTW3 more than the AZ60? If so I will wait and see if they add multipoint and go on sale .

Think I might seriously just buy a Switch Lite and skip buying yet another TWS for now...


----------



## helmutcheese (May 14, 2022)

Are they QC3040 (I forget), if so, I not sure how they can only do 7 hours battery at 50% Vol+AAC with a single 7mm driver?

That puts me off again this late in the day for the price when new are chipsets due and no MP for now and the fact the ANC is always Adaptive, and you cannot control it manually.


----------



## C_Lindbergh

dweaver said:


> Like the MTW3 more than the AZ60? If so I will wait and see if they add multipoint and go on sale .
> 
> Think I might seriously just buy a Switch Lite and skip buying yet another TWS for now...



Haven't A/B tested them yet, but initially I preferred the SQ on the MTW3, but that can just be new toy syndrome haha...

What I do prefer over the AZ60 is: Aptx Adaptive, Wirless charghing, Connection management, Better comfort and fit (thanks to wingtips).


----------



## dweaver

Because I have a Samsung phone I only get Aptx, no adaptive.


----------



## C_Lindbergh (May 14, 2022)

dweaver said:


> Because I have a Samsung phone I only get Aptx, no adaptive.



I get APTX HD on my phone, honestly I can't tell a difference between APTX HD and LDAC. But yeah, kinda sucks that Samsung doesn't offer APTX HD or Adaptive on any of their 1000 phones.

But the reason I mentioned Aptx Adaptive is that there's now USB dongles, so I can finally use my TWS on my computer for basically everything except competitive gaming. When using my phone APTX HD is sufficient since I barely use anything that can benefit from lower latency on my phone.

Hopefully by the time MTW4 comes around we'll finally get LC3/LC3 plus codecs as standard on every device


----------



## helmutcheese (May 14, 2022)

The aptX Adaptive earbuds will be aptX on your phone not aptX-HD in that case.

And nearly all those aptX Adaptive USB Transmitters so far are 16/48 one or two are 24/96 but hard to get even on AliExpress, you would need it to be at least 24/48 for aptX-HD or Adaptive to be bit perfect.


----------



## C_Lindbergh (May 14, 2022)

helmutcheese said:


> The aptX Adaptive earbuds will be aptX on your phone not aptX-HD in that case.
> 
> And nearly all those aptX Adaptive USB Transmitters so far are 16/48 one or two are 24/96 but hard to get even on AliExpress, you would need it to be at least 24/48 for aptX-HD or Adaptive to be bit for bit.


Ah, you're correct, I was fooled by the HD-sound in my BT settings 

But oh well, they still sounds awesome 

I thought APTX Adaptive was backwards compatitble with APTX HD! Maybe just for headphones and not earbuds I guess.


----------



## helmutcheese (May 14, 2022)

Yea my phone says same for AAC though it does not do anything as it does not support it (remains SBC) and IMO AAC is not HD but gets called so as it is 16/48 so up from 16/44.1 CD quality but IMO it really needs be 24/48 at least.

I prefer aptX or aptX-HD if listing to Hi-Res as Amazon Music HD cannot get past Android's driver limitation so 24/48 even on LDAC if the file is 24/96 or higher.

However, PowerAmp can so it is 24/96.


----------



## helmutcheese

C_Lindbergh said:


> Ah, you're correct, I was fooled by the HD-sound in my BT settings
> 
> But oh well, they still sounds awesome
> 
> I thought APTX Adaptive was backwards compatitble with APTX HD! Maybe just for headphones and not earbuds I guess.


It has nothing to do with the devices being earphones or headphones, it was a misleading claim by QUALCOMM but I hear it works the other way but I cannot comment as my phone is not aptX Adaptive.

I had a set of B&W P14 and they worked but they also included the standalone aptX HD codec so Moto/Lenovo and B&W CS told me.


----------



## scubaphish

I’ll join the chorus that the MTW3 sound really impressive. But if I had a gripe it’s that there’s no audible prompt for transparency mode (although there is for noise canceling).  At least this is my experience so far.


----------



## clerkpalmer

Looks


erockg said:


> Now, I have way too many buds.  Ugh.


Got a good chuckle out of this. As if THIS pair put you over the top. Too funny. 

Rediscovering my Fokus. Having fit issues. Any tip recommendations?


----------



## JoshG1217

So the 1more evo sound better than I thought. Debating keeping them. Using azla sedna mediums. Tips don't fit in the case and the ones it comes with are too shallow for me. For 150 they are comfortable, have a solid app, and respond well to EQ from poweramp. They aren't better Than the Fokus obviously, but those continue to be a fit issue for me, whereas these fit pretty snugly into my ears


----------



## erockg

clerkpalmer said:


> Looks
> 
> Got a good chuckle out of this. As if THIS pair put you over the top. Too funny.
> 
> Rediscovering my Fokus. Having fit issues. Any tip recommendations?


I’ve been using the large double flange OEM ones.  But there are some Spinfits that work okay too.  CP155 & 145.  Your mileage may vary!


----------



## scubaphish

erockg said:


> I’ve been using the large double flange OEM ones.  But there are some Spinfits that work okay too.  CP155 & 145.  Your mileage may vary!


Double flange OEM you say?  I didn’t even look at the selection of tips as the medium that came on them fit. Thanks


----------



## TK33

C_Lindbergh said:


> Ah, you're correct, I was fooled by the HD-sound in my BT settings
> 
> But oh well, they still sounds awesome
> 
> I thought APTX Adaptive was backwards compatitble with APTX HD! Maybe just for headphones and not earbuds I guess.


You should be able to confirm this in developer options for yourself.  People told me that my PI7s could not do aptX HD.  Turns out they do connect via aptX HD to my Pixel 6.  Screenshots attached.

Whether the manufacturer needs to or does not need to specifically enable aptX HD does not seem relevant to whether the MTW3 support aptX HD.  If B&W can do it, I see no reason why Sennheiser could not.  Whenever I get around to picking up the MTW3, I will confirm the codec compatibility as well.  Am hoping aptX HD will work with my Pixel 6 since it does not support aptX adaptive (my OnePlus 8T and LG V60 do support aptX adaptive on the other hand but I mostly use the Pixel).


----------



## C_Lindbergh

TK33 said:


> You should be able to confirm this in developer options for yourself.  People told me that my PI7s could not do aptX HD.  Turns out they do connect via aptX HD to my Pixel 6.  Screenshots attached.
> 
> Whether the manufacturer needs to or does not need to specifically enable aptX HD does not seem relevant to whether the MTW3 support aptX HD.  If B&W can do it, I see no reason why Sennheiser could not.  Whenever I get around to picking up the MTW3, I will confirm the codec compatibility as well.  Am hoping aptX HD will work with my Pixel 6 since it does not support aptX adaptive (my OnePlus 8T and LG V60 do support aptX adaptive on the other hand but I mostly use the Pixel).



Yeah says ATPX in both the app and developer settings I'm afraid :/


----------



## Asoares99 (May 14, 2022)

TK33 said:


> You should be able to confirm this in developer options for yourself.  People told me that my PI7s could not do aptX HD.  Turns out they do connect via aptX HD to my Pixel 6.  Screenshots attached.
> 
> Whether the manufacturer needs to or does not need to specifically enable aptX HD does not seem relevant to whether the MTW3 support aptX HD.  If B&W can do it, I see no reason why Sennheiser could not.  Whenever I get around to picking up the MTW3, I will confirm the codec compatibility as well.  Am hoping aptX HD will work with my Pixel 6 since it does not support aptX adaptive (my OnePlus 8T and LG V60 do support aptX adaptive on the other hand but I mostly use the Pixel).


I believe this may be a phone limitation. Samsung has only aptx available, no chance of aptx HD or adaptive at all.


----------



## jant71

scubaphish said:


> I’ll join the chorus that the MTW3 sound really impressive. But if I had a gripe it’s that there’s no audible prompt for transparency mode (although there is for noise canceling).  At least this is my experience so far.


Don't they auto pause or can be set to auto pause so that could be your prompt right?


----------



## scubaphish

jant71 said:


> Don't they auto pause or can be set to auto pause so that could be your prompt right?


Can be set, yes. Setting doesn’t always stick though. I think I have them set to pause, but often due to adjusting them when I put them in my ears I’m listening to music with transparency turned on.


----------



## TK33

Asoares99 said:


> I believe this may be a phone limitation. Samsung has only aptx available, no chance of aptx HD or adaptive at all.


Got it. Missed that it is a Samsung phone.  That is why I actually stopped buying Samsung phones for myself.  Their 360 audio with the Samsung Buds works pretty well though (I do have a Samsung tablet).


----------



## Asoares99

TK33 said:


> Got it. Missed that it is a Samsung phone.  That is why I actually stopped buying Samsung phones for myself.  Their 360 audio with the Samsung Buds works pretty well though (I do have a Samsung tablet).


Yes, I always fall on the same and end up buying Samsung but it is really annoying indeed. I saw sometime ago in a forum that there was some way to add codecs but I was never able to do it


----------



## dweaver

Curious about the 1More Evo, any more impressions / comparisons to other TWS coming? They are a bit tempting as well.


----------



## TK33

C_Lindbergh said:


> Yeah says ATPX in both the app and developer settings I'm afraid :/


Thanks. Well as long as you enjoy them that is all that really matters.


----------



## Bhelpoori

DHRME reviewed the Evo which also matches with my view. In the sound quality section they quickly reference the AZ-60. I like the Evos but the ANC is weak and it does have its Quirks.


----------



## LastFantasy

TK33 said:


> You should be able to confirm this in developer options for yourself.  People told me that my PI7s could not do aptX HD.  Turns out they do connect via aptX HD to my Pixel 6.  Screenshots attached.
> 
> Whether the manufacturer needs to or does not need to specifically enable aptX HD does not seem relevant to whether the MTW3 support aptX HD.  If B&W can do it, I see no reason why Sennheiser could not.  Whenever I get around to picking up the MTW3, I will confirm the codec compatibility as well.  Am hoping aptX HD will work with my Pixel 6 since it does not support aptX adaptive (my OnePlus 8T and LG V60 do support aptX adaptive on the other hand but I mostly use the Pixel).


Since PI7 supports aptX HD, it can be connected smoothly on your Pixel 6, and MTW3 does not support aptX HD, so it is connected by default aptX.


----------



## TK33

LastFantasy said:


> Since PI7 supports aptX HD, it can be connected smoothly on your Pixel 6, and MTW3 does not support aptX HD, so it is connected by default aptX.


Guess it is what it is.  Did not mean to start a codec discussion.  I will probably get the MTW3 anyway (skipped the MTW2 to wait for this one).  I do have phones with aptX adaptive but the Pixel is my main phone.  Lack of aptX HD  has not stopped me from enjoying my TWS in the past (Linkbuds have surprisingly become my go to recently and that is using AAC on Android) and the MTW3 seem to be great even with "only aptX".  As I said, as long as you enjoy them it really doesn't matter what codec you are using.


----------



## bladefd

dweaver said:


> Because I have a Samsung phone I only get Aptx, no adaptive.


Then shouldn't you still be able to run the mtw3 on aptx mode? I thought aptx adaptive gave you access to the entire aptx range and was backwards compatible?


----------



## dweaver

Bhelpoori said:


> DHRME reviewed the Evo which also matches with my view. In the sound quality section they quickly reference the AZ-60. I like the Evos but the ANC is weak and it does have its Quirks.



I watched the video, actually the smoothed treble on the AZ60 was an area I disliked and the new Spinfit tips helps adjust. So if the Evo have that issue I think am going to pass as the AZ60 are working better in this area with new tips and the Evo won't be able to use those.

They look nice though but I am not dropping the cash just for a pretty look.

I am sitting right now using my "old" WI-1000X and they sure fill my Sony fix. Sony gets certain things so right sound wise and this old neck ring IEM was one of Sony last IEMs that found the magic balance with bass, mids and treble. All the newer stuff is just to bassy and dark sounding but these tread a great line for me. Not a TWS but so far Sony has not made a compelling TWS sound wise for me. They have the best bells and whistles along with ANC on the planet but sonically they just can't seem to hit the sweet spot yet. Hopefully the new Linkbud S will swing back to the sound signature of some of their earlier products.


----------



## dweaver (May 14, 2022)

bladefd said:


> Then shouldn't you still be able to run the mtw3 on aptx mode? I thought aptx adaptive gave you access to the entire aptx range and was backwards compatible?


I have the UTWS5 which has Aptx Adaptive and you are correct I do get to use Aptx from my Samsung which is what those use by default. But to get this hires sound I would need my phone to support the higher Aptx codecs which it does not.

Having said that I completely agree with some other posters about codecs. They are nice and help but not nearly as much as a proper tuned and designed driver configuration. The UTWS5 only using Aptx slays EVERY TWS I own sonically when I have the Fiio FH5 attached. So I place less concern on the codecs and focus on the sound instead.


----------



## jant71

Not too bad... https://www.amazon.com/T5-True-Wire...71f1c&pd_rd_wg=Wgc9O&pd_rd_i=B088S7FYZ4&psc=1

The Mclaren Sport with the charging pad for $99. If you don't want the pad the non-Mclaren Sport in black is only $79. If you want the Mclaren T5-II ANC model they are $149.


----------



## erockg

Something new must be on the horizon because Klipsch just lowered the price on these again:  https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B08PG4LMPW/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o05_s00?ie=UTF8&th=1


----------



## clerkpalmer

erockg said:


> Something new must be on the horizon because Klipsch just lowered the price on these again:  https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B08PG4LMPW/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o05_s00?ie=UTF8&th=1


Weird only the maclarens are on sale


----------



## LordToneeus

dweaver said:


> I have the UTWS5 which has Aptx Adaptive and you are correct I do get to use Aptx from my Samsung which is what those use by default. But to get this hires sound I would need my phone to support the higher Aptx codecs which it does not.
> 
> Having said that I completely agree with some other posters about codecs. They are nice and help but not nearly as much as a proper tuned and designed driver configuration. The UTWS5 only using Aptx slays EVERY TWS I own sonically when I have the Fiio FH5 attached. So I place less concern on the codecs and focus on the sound instead.


Speaking of which, I got my UTWS5’s in today from AUDIO46. Just hooked my Jade Audio EA3’s up, and wow, these really are something special. Just a different class of sound.


----------



## Widell

LordToneeus said:


> Speaking of which, I got my UTWS5’s in today from AUDIO46. Just hooked my Jade Audio EA3’s up, and wow, these really are something special. Just a different class of sound.


Better than MTW3 or Noble Fokus Pro? Ofc depending onthe iem’s but…? Just got Fokus Pro yesterday but been 👁 on the UTES5.  MTW3 vs Fokus Pro anyone?


----------



## helmutcheese (May 14, 2022)

Sony WH-1000XM5 Pre-order on Amazon UK at £380-£499 dependent on colour (what a F'ING joke)​*BT 5.2 and SBC/AAC/LDAC so no versions of aptX again.*





https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=Sony+WH-1000XM5+on+Am,azon+at+£399-$99+dpeenetn+on+coluir+(what+a+F+joke)&ie=UTF-8&oe=


----------



## LordToneeus

Widell said:


> Better than MTW3 or Noble Fokus Pro? Ofc depending onthe iem’s but…? Just got Fokus Pro yesterday but been 👁 on the UTES5.  MTW3 vs Fokus Pro anyone?


I can’t speak to either of those, but they are superior - to my ears - to the Technics AZ60, Melomania Touch, and AKG NC400.


----------



## Ceeluh7

dweaver said:


> I have the UTWS5 which has Aptx Adaptive and you are correct I do get to use Aptx from my Samsung which is what those use by default. But to get this hires sound I would need my phone to support the higher Aptx codecs which it does not.
> 
> Having said that I completely agree with some other posters about codecs. They are nice and help but not nearly as much as a proper tuned and designed driver configuration. The UTWS5 only using Aptx slays EVERY TWS I own sonically when I have the Fiio FH5 attached. So I place less concern on the codecs and focus on the sound instead.


100%. People give in too much to codecs. It's the tuning and driver implementation that really can take a tws iem over the top in SQ. Get some decent Dacs/amps housed within the shells of any tws and it wouldn't matter what codec they are using.


----------



## Not so fat head

pitman907 said:


> I think that soundsports free are wireless? I only have a wired in ear xvive system from sweetwater. I am replacing the shure earphones.


Hi Pitman..
I think I misunderstood..  Yes I have two wired Shure IEM’s, and they do sound great..  unfortunately I’m not aware of open backs, except maybe Audeze or Hifiman.  These are plainer drivers, Are expensive at retail, but maybe cheaper used.


----------



## scubaphish (May 15, 2022)

Widell said:


> Better than MTW3 or Noble Fokus Pro? Ofc depending onthe iem’s but…? Just got Fokus Pro yesterday but been 👁 on the UTES5.  MTW3 vs Fokus Pro anyone?


WRT to Fokus vs MTW3, here’s what I got so far. As I mentioned, I think the MTW3 are really impressive. Great presentation, sounds very realistic. Good instrument separation; they’re good. I enjoy listening to them.  But I keep going back to the Fokus and just being like “these are awesome!”  Can listen at lower volumes on Fokus than MTW3. Not just the amount of volume, I mean at quieter levels you can hear the details…better. Passive isolation on Fokus is crazy good. Comfort of the MTW3 is terrific; so small and yet so detailed with clear, strong bass
Out of box Fokus were little dark for me…have the mids and highs kicked up. MTW3 out of the box is great. Better be cause only 3 band eq.

Edit: I’d add that the bass on the Fokus is…high fidelity. In that it sounded like I could tell that Phil Lesh was playing a very loosely strung bass

Edit 2: the transparency feature on the MTW3 works well, especially compared to no such feature on the Fokus. Can you tell I’m having trouble choosing between them?


----------



## Ceeluh7

LordToneeus said:


> Speaking of which, I got my UTWS5’s in today from AUDIO46. Just hooked my Jade Audio EA3’s up, and wow, these really are something special. Just a different class of sound.


They aren't bad at all. For a budget set. There are definitely better options on the market but the EA3's are very nice at the price point. Some say the EA1 is even better as they don't have the odd BA treble.


----------



## Not so fat head

BigZ12 said:


> Massive!



Yes, they do look big and kind of bucking the trend, but just might sound incredible..  There is lots of room in that chamber for acoustic tuning….
Also, this company knows what they’re doing, German engineering at its best..


----------



## Bhelpoori

dweaver said:


> I watched the video, actually the smoothed treble on the AZ60 was an area I disliked and the new Spinfit tips helps adjust. So if the Evo have that issue I think am going to pass as the AZ60 are working better in this area with new tips and the Evo won't be able to use those.
> 
> They look nice though but I am not dropping the cash just for a pretty look.
> 
> I am sitting right now using my "old" WI-1000X and they sure fill my Sony fix. Sony gets certain things so right sound wise and this old neck ring IEM was one of Sony last IEMs that found the magic balance with bass, mids and treble. All the newer stuff is just to bassy and dark sounding but these tread a great line for me. Not a TWS but so far Sony has not made a compelling TWS sound wise for me. They have the best bells and whistles along with ANC on the planet but sonically they just can't seem to hit the sweet spot yet. Hopefully the new Linkbud S will swing back to the sound signature of some of their earlier products.


I agree on the treble in the default tuning and it isn’t to my taste either. Luckily, using SoundID did work for me to make the tuning just right for me, however, as I said previously it took 5 attempts and that’s as someone who has used SoundID from day 1. 

Personally I can’t see any reason to buy the Evos over the AZ-60.


----------



## Caipirina (May 15, 2022)

DDDYKI said:


> Just got the AZ60 so I'll have a nice weekend playing with these.
> Quick question: is this tape on the bottom of the box normal? Want to make sure I didn't get one that was opened previously (bought from B&H). Only one strip of tape that looks like it may be old enough to vote.
> 
> EDIT: iFixit's teardown also shows one piece of tape on the box, just like where mine is. Time to dig in!


Wow! for once I am not the LAST to the party 

I think I had remnants of that tape on my box (which was used)

By the way, I have not managed yet to get these playing LDAC from my Tempotec V1 yet .. it appears to be connecting as LDAC 990, but when playing, the indicator says AAC ... tbh, I have not spent a lot of time on trouble shooting yet (nor testing with my Hiby R2) ...


----------



## Caipirina

Not so fat head said:


> Yes, they do look big and kind of bucking the trend, but just might sound incredible..  There is lots of room in that chamber for acoustic tuning….
> Also, this company knows what they’re doing, German engineering at its best..


Interesting then that there's no sign of them in German amazon .. not even pre-order ...


----------



## C_Lindbergh

BigZ12 said:


> Massive!



Yeah looks massive, but there's some sort of grove at the inner part, so i suppose thats the part that will touch your ears. So they can still be fairly comfortable. 

Looks interesting tho! I love the charging case! (my only complaint about the MTW3)...But I do fear how far behind BeyerDynamic will be in the software game!


----------



## clerkpalmer

Not so fat head said:


> Yes, they do look big and kind of bucking the trend, but just might sound incredible..  There is lots of room in that chamber for acoustic tuning….
> Also, this company knows what they’re doing, German engineering at its best..


Agree. Xelento IEMs are still awesome to this day. These are worth keeping an eye on.


----------



## BobJS

LordToneeus said:


> Speaking of which, I got my UTWS5’s in today from AUDIO46. Just hooked my Jade Audio EA3’s up, and wow, these really are something special. Just a different class of sound.



Yeah, I had given up on snagging a pair of UTWS5s (2-pin) as no one had them for the longest time.  Was surprised to find them at Audio46, so I ordered a pair.


----------



## jant71

I see the ARC has set sail(see what I did there!). $110.49 with 15% off code
https://cleeraudio.com/earbuds/arc/?attribute_pa_attr_color=midnight-blue
Anybody interested in this take on the open style??


----------



## DDDYKI

Caipirina said:


> Wow! for once I am not the LAST to the party
> 
> I think I had remnants of that tape on my box (which was used)
> 
> By the way, I have not managed yet to get these playing LDAC from my Tempotec V1 yet .. it appears to be connecting as LDAC 990, but when playing, the indicator says AAC ... tbh, I have not spent a lot of time on trouble shooting yet (nor testing with my Hiby R2) ...


Now that I bought them, I'm sure reviews will be pouring out proclaiming MTW3 to be the best TWS ever, or for there to be a massive defect in the AZ60.  
I did not get to listen to them yesterday and hope to do so today to finish up my thoughts on them. I'm WFH the rest of the month so I'm not getting my usual commute/break time every day to listen. Getting the SpinFit tips from Amazon today and I hope they're comfortable. One thing I'll say is that I'm finding the stock eartips a little uncomfortable. Going from Medium to Large helped a little (I'm a medium with all my other headphones, so this is odd), but so far, the Comply Sport 500s have felt even better. I have some AZLA Sednaearfit TWS (ML) tips and they're too shallow to be any good (also a very tight fit on the stem). Pulling the pieces out with the stock M tips also seems like the silicone eartips fold up a little and graze my ear canals on the way out. I think these may be sitting too deep in my ears and either the silicone is brushing against something, or the inside ends of the headphones are irritating my ears.

Definitely check the Bluetooth settings on your device (Settings>Bluetooth>tap whatever name the Tempotec show up as>look for LDAC option). I forgot this was an option under each device and just assumed the Technics app handled that. I believe I had to do this with my XM4 but Sony at least called out that step.


----------



## jaymbee

Today I learned from a Chinese review on YouTube that a triple tap on the right earbud of the Beoplay EX initiates Siri. I hadn’t seen this mentioned in any of B&O’s product info, or any other reviews. I tried it, and it does indeed work, but you don’t always get the ‘ding’ that tells you that Siri is listening. Maybe that’s why it’s not a documented feature.


----------



## cresny

DDDYKI said:


> Now that I bought them, I'm sure reviews will be pouring out proclaiming MTW3 to be the best TWS ever, or for there to be a massive defect in the AZ60.
> I did not get to listen to them yesterday and hope to do so today to finish up my thoughts on them. I'm WFH the rest of the month so I'm not getting my usual commute/break time every day to listen. Getting the SpinFit tips from Amazon today and I hope they're comfortable. One thing I'll say is that I'm finding the stock eartips a little uncomfortable. Going from Medium to Large helped a little (I'm a medium with all my other headphones, so this is odd), but so far, the Comply Sport 500s have felt even better. I have some AZLA Sednaearfit TWS (ML) tips and they're too shallow to be any good (also a very tight fit on the stem). Pulling the pieces out with the stock M tips also seems like the silicone eartips fold up a little and graze my ear canals on the way out. I think these may be sitting too deep in my ears and either the silicone is brushing against something, or the inside ends of the headphones are irritating my ears.
> 
> Definitely check the Bluetooth settings on your device (Settings>Bluetooth>tap whatever name the Tempotec show up as>look for LDAC option). I forgot this was an option under each device and just assumed the Technics app handled that. I believe I had to do this with my XM4 but Sony at least called out that step.


I also did not like the stock ear tips, even after the, like, 37 pairs or whatever they provided. It's hard to say, but just somehow uncomfortable for me. I had some spinfit cp360s lying around and they are fine. I also usually use medium, but fwiw, I have one large + 1 medium on these, whereas I had 1 medium + 1 small on my Sony XM3s. So I guess these do veer towards large for some reason. But then I do not put much thought into tips, just pull out my little drawer-full and stop after whatever works.


----------



## C_Lindbergh (May 15, 2022)

DDDYKI said:


> Now that I bought them, I'm sure reviews will be pouring out proclaiming MTW3 to be the best TWS ever, or for there to be a massive defect in the AZ60.
> I



Both are really good, the AZ60 have a few advantages like a smaller case and cheaper price. Speaking of SQ there just something about the sub-bass that the MTW3 can produce without drowing out the mids/highs...Fantastic!

But If I had to chose I'd go with the MTW3  And I do actually agree that the MTW3 are the best overall TWS at the moment, if you take everything into consideration and not just SQ. The AZ60 is a really close at 2nd spot as the best overall TWS tho, at least in my view.

I'll prob buy the next TWS that Technics releases, hopefully this year.


----------



## james444

jant71 said:


> I see the ARC has set sail(see what I did there!). $110.49 with 15% off code
> https://cleeraudio.com/earbuds/arc/?attribute_pa_attr_color=midnight-blue
> Anybody interested in this take on the open style??



Interested... yes. And admittedly curious. But nevertheless hesitant, as (like with the LinkBuds) I can't really imagine how this more complex style would offer any acoustic advantage over simpler Airpods 3 style (side-firing) earbuds. 16mm drivers make them somewhat tempting, but they're probably just needed to achieve similar sound pressure to Airpods 3 style earbuds, the latter of which sit closer to the ear canal and therefore don't require such large drivers.


----------



## The1Signature

B&O Beoplay EX is interesting as well - recommended reviewers rank them very high.


----------



## Caipirina

DDDYKI said:


> Definitely check the Bluetooth settings on your device (Settings>Bluetooth>tap whatever name the Tempotec show up as>look for LDAC option). I forgot this was an option under each device and just assumed the Technics app handled that. I believe I had to do this with my XM4 but Sony at least called out that step.


The TempoTec is the DAP / source. 


I wonder if I need to change anything in the Az60 app … but then, before I got to play some more. Low battery …


----------



## DDDYKI

C_Lindbergh said:


> Both are really good, the AZ60 have a few advantages like a smaller case and cheaper price. Speaking of SQ there just something about the sub-bass that the MTW3 can produce without drowing out the mids/highs...Fantastic!
> 
> But If I had to chose I'd go with the MTW3  And I do actually agree that the MTW3 are the best overall TWS at the moment, if you take everything into consideration and not just SQ. The AZ60 is a really close at 2nd spot as the best overall TWS tho, at least in my view.
> 
> I'll prob buy the next TWS that Technics releases, hopefully this year.


I definitely want to try MTW3, but I also feel like my hand was forced a bit because Samsung doesn't license the newer aptX codecs, so for me and the MTW3, it's either settling for base aptX or AAC. I do have a growing collection of FLAC rips from my CD collection, so the higher bitrate LDAC provides is something I'd like to take advantage of especially as I'm coming from the base aptX in the E8 3.0. Those served me fine, despite some finicky controls, issues with the case, and the occasional pairing snafu. I admit to succumbing to the flashy numbers of the specs here, because I'm not exactly listening critically as I walk around or take my short train ride to and from work. I rip my CDs in FLAC and 320 MP3 I guess because I'm a digital hoarder.
--
Not able to spend nearly as much time with the AZ60 this weekend like I had hoped (wife is on the mend), so while I work from home this week, I may just plug them in and forget about using my stereo for a couple of days. Still not completely happy with the eartips; the CP360 tips I got this afternoon are just 'eh' and they do put a little more pressure on my ear than I like. Back to the stock Large tips for now, although I think the Comply Sport foam fit a little better. And hopefully I'll have a better understanding of what's bugging me about the fit as I use them more over the next few days. I appreciate the foam in the stock eartips because my ears do get a little sweaty and gunky from walking. If anyone has any other suggestions I'd be happy to hear them. 

The sound blows my previous E8 3.0 out of the water, and (crossing fingers), the AZ60 sits properly on the contacts in the charging case, so I don't have to worry about battery drain or losing my place in a podcast. LDAC streaming with the phone in my pocket does drop occasionally and briefly while walking around my neighborhood, so I'm interested in seeing how it performs when I'm in busy Manhattan.


----------



## Enn Jott

DDDYKI said:


> ... LDAC streaming with the phone in my pocket does drop occasionally and briefly while walking around my neighborhood, so I'm interested in seeing how it performs when I'm in busy Manhattan.


Mine are so weak on LDAC that I think they are defective. I get frequent signal drops on my pixel 5 (which does not have great BT though, especially with android 12). BT-Signal is also weakish using them with my 2012 Macbook Pro on AAC. I complained to amazon instead of just sending them back (2-3 months ago) and got my money back. Didn't have to return the in ears and could throw them away... And of course I kept them. They do annoy me often but the sound is "the best" I've heard from tws in ears. The point is: I'm now "stuck" on the AZ60s weak BT but it's hard to justify buying something else atm. I would have tried the MTW3, but now I won't. How's bluetooth stability working for you guys with the technics?


----------



## Caipirina

C_Lindbergh said:


> Both are really good, the AZ60 have a few advantages like a smaller case and cheaper price. Speaking of SQ there just something about the sub-bass that the MTW3 can produce without drowing out the mids/highs...Fantastic!
> 
> But If I had to chose I'd go with the MTW3  And I do actually agree that the MTW3 are the best overall TWS at the moment, if you take everything into consideration and not just SQ. The AZ60 is a really close at 2nd spot as the best overall TWS tho, at least in my view.
> 
> I'll prob buy the next TWS that Technics releases, hopefully this year.


I'd be curious to hear if the MTW3 could be a new ANC king? compared to Sony XM4, Bose QC, AZ60?

Anyone?


----------



## helmutcheese

If you could get as good a passive seal as the Sony with their Foam Hybrid tips (BOSE, use a one-piece tip/wing so good seal) and if they let you manually adjust ANC to 100% instead of automatic Adaptive it would be fairer.


----------



## The1Signature (May 16, 2022)

Caipirina said:


> I'd be curious to hear if the MTW3 could be a new ANC king? compared to Sony XM4, Bose QC, AZ60?
> 
> Anyone?


you will get a comparison here - Bose QC and XM4 is still better in terms of ANC.


----------



## Caipirina

The1Signature said:


> you will get a comparison here - Bose QC and XM4 is still the better in terms of ANC.


Thanks, very much appreciate the time code ... but Flossy basically just says 'top tier' .. no compare really .. or did I miss something? 

Still going through the motions, sometimes I feel super hyped about these and want to have them on Friday when they drop here .. half hour later I am more cautious and want to see if I can audition them first ... and then an hour later I am like 'eh, I have plenty, what spend so much money? ...  evil cycle  ... (get's back to 'what else you wanna spend money on? You deserve a new toy!')


----------



## helmutcheese

Yes, he has 1 more tier, "God Tier" that is only Bose & Sony, but he does not mention it every time.


----------



## The1Signature

Caipirina said:


> Thanks, very much appreciate the time code ... but Flossy basically just says 'top tier' .. no compare really .. or did I miss something?
> 
> Still going through the motions, sometimes I feel super hyped about these and want to have them on Friday when they drop here .. half hour later I am more cautious and want to see if I can audition them first ... and then an hour later I am like 'eh, I have plenty, what spend so much money? ...  evil cycle  ... (get's back to 'what else you wanna spend money on? You deserve a new toy!')


xm4 is above top tier, it is the, what he calls, god tier level and only 2 deserve this: xm4 and bose qc.

time stamp included, again .


----------



## Caipirina (May 16, 2022)

The1Signature said:


> xm4 is above top tier, it is the, what he calls, god tier level and only 2 deserve this: xm4 and bose qc.
> 
> time stamp included, again .





helmutcheese said:


> Yes, he has 1 more tier, "God Tier" that is only Bose & Sony, but he does not mention it every time


Thanks guys for clarification

Flossy is not one my ’must watch’ reviewers, so I am not well versed in his tiers. 

Think of it, I am not really digging / trusting any YT reviewer anymore. Jim’s review room vanished again I think. Those were the good old days.
Speaking of good old yt review days. Anyone remember Lachlanlikesathing? That used to be one of my favs. Seems he packed it up as well 2 years ago … gosh, hope it wasn’t the ‘Rona!


----------



## DDDYKI

I spent about an hour using the Small tips on the AZ60 this time and still some soreness on the flat part of my concha, I think. The tips fit me just fine, but I'm wondering if the the raised area at the base of the stems, which is not covered by the eartips, is rubbing against the concha and causing the discomfort. The XS2 tips are too small to stay in place and didn't block sound effectively. I also tried the Medium CP360 and Comply 500 Sport foam again and still felt that discomfort. Anyone have any experience with this? This would be a dealbreaker for me, as much as I love the sound. I don't want them to be sticking out much further from my ears than necessary, otherwise they'll fall out.


----------



## The1Signature

DDDYKI said:


> I spent about an hour using the Small tips on the AZ60 this time and still some soreness on the flat part of my concha, I think. The tips fit me just fine, but I'm wondering if the the raised area at the base of the stems, which is not covered by the eartips, is rubbing against the concha and causing the discomfort. The XS2 tips are too small to stay in place and didn't block sound effectively. I also tried the Medium CP360 and Comply 500 Sport foam again and still felt that discomfort. Anyone have any experience with this? This would be a dealbreaker for me, as much as I love the sound. I don't want them to be sticking out much further from my ears than necessary, otherwise they'll fall out.


this is a known issue. the same is the case with the sony xm4 and stock tips. final audio tips improve anc but you get a little bit less bass.


----------



## krenzler

Caipirina said:


> Anyone remember Lachlanlikesathing? That used to be one of my favs. Seems he packed it up as well 2 years ago … gosh, hope it wasn’t the ‘Rona!



He works for this channel now.

https://www.youtube.com/c/MinidiscAu/featured

Uploads are infrequent and short though.


----------



## cresny

DDDYKI said:


> I spent about an hour using the Small tips on the AZ60 this time and still some soreness on the flat part of my concha, I think. The tips fit me just fine, but I'm wondering if the the raised area at the base of the stems, which is not covered by the eartips, is rubbing against the concha and causing the discomfort. The XS2 tips are too small to stay in place and didn't block sound effectively. I also tried the Medium CP360 and Comply 500 Sport foam again and still felt that discomfort. Anyone have any experience with this? This would be a dealbreaker for me, as much as I love the sound. I don't want them to be sticking out much further from my ears than necessary, otherwise they'll fall out.


The AZ60s are on the large side and do push the horizontal fit, and that gives you less leeway for the tips. The SpinFits are know for having a more flexible fit and though maybe small might help, it does seem like these just are not going to work in the long run. I think if I were in your position and able to return I'd try the Sennheiser MTW3.


----------



## erockg

DDDYKI said:


> I spent about an hour using the Small tips on the AZ60 this time and still some soreness on the flat part of my concha, I think. The tips fit me just fine, but I'm wondering if the the raised area at the base of the stems, which is not covered by the eartips, is rubbing against the concha and causing the discomfort. The XS2 tips are too small to stay in place and didn't block sound effectively. I also tried the Medium CP360 and Comply 500 Sport foam again and still felt that discomfort. Anyone have any experience with this? This would be a dealbreaker for me, as much as I love the sound. I don't want them to be sticking out much further from my ears than necessary, otherwise they'll fall out.


Same for me -- ear pain.  Returned mine.  Much happier with others.  Great features, etc.  New Sennies and the new B&O EX fit perfect.  EX are just perfect.  IMO better than the AZ60s, although you'll be paying a lot more esp. for the name.  B&W PI7s fit great too.


----------



## erockg (May 16, 2022)

erockg said:


> FedEx just delivered new Astell & Kern UW100.  Nice full soundstage.  App is lacking, but the tuning is okay, better with the bass setting.  No ANC, but ambient works well.  Not as good as the SMTW3.  Passive isolation is very good with the tips I’m using right now.  Full touch controls that work well.  Voice sounds decent with calls.  Still tip rolling.  Now, I have way too many buds.  Ugh.


Following up here.  These things are awesome.  The soundstage is excellent, detailed, wide and powerful.  Still going back and forth with my collection and comparing and contrasting as to where they stand.  They _do_ have multi-pairing.  Didn't know that.  Didn't see it listed anywhere.  Wish they had a better EQ in the app but the bass emphasis mode setting is pretty damn good.  If you're willing to pay the price, I'd definitely check these out.  A lot of you guys know more about this stuff than me, but I really hear a difference with Knowles BAs and the DAC they're using in these.  Honestly too, you don't need ANC.  Passive isolation is great.  Also, similar to how the Noble Fokus Pro charge a premium for their driver setup, with the A&K you are paying a big price for the better Knowles BA and their DAC.  The case could be smaller (it's a tad bigger than the MTW3 case).  The buds seem big when you look at them in photos, but fit really well.  I'd say like the XM4 as far as how they stick out, but slide in and secure much better.  Good stuff here.  I'm truly enjoying them.


----------



## The1Signature (May 16, 2022)

erockg said:


> They _do_ have multi-pairing. Didn't know that. Didn't see it listed anywhere.


it is written straight on the homepage

however, the integrated aptx can just pride 30% of what ldac can do.

and remember multi point always means less quality as the bluetooth chip gets divided per source to receive data.


----------



## erockg

The1Signature said:


> it is written straight on the homepage
> 
> however, the integrated aptx can just pride 30% of what ldac can do.
> 
> and remember multi point always means less quality as the bluetooth chip gets divided per source to receive data.


Thanks!  They definitely added that after the fact.  The box and manual make no mention of it!  Huge selling point.  They need to add stickers to the box or something.  Either way, I'm happy.  

I realize what you're saying though.  That said, I'm on all Apple products here while working from home and/or also at the office, so anything more than AAC, Apple Lossless, etc. really doesn't affect me.  My old ears can rarely hear a huge difference after all the metal I've listened to through the years.


----------



## The1Signature

erockg said:


> Thanks!  They definitely added that after the fact.  The box and manual make no mention of it!  Huge selling point.  They need to add stickers to the box or something.  Either way, I'm happy.
> 
> I realize what you're saying though.  That said, I'm on all Apple products here while working from home and/or also at the office, so anything more than AAC, Apple Lossless, etc. really doesn't affect me.  My old ears can rarely hear a huge difference after all the metal I've listened to through the years.


so seems to be that you found your perfect solution. happy to hear that.


----------



## erockg

The1Signature said:


> so seems to be that you found your perfect solution. happy to hear that.


Nope, in the world of TWS, there's never a perfect solution as many of the folks here can attest to   That's why we have a half dozen or more pairs .  Very sad !


----------



## DDDYKI

erockg said:


> Nope, in the world of TWS, there's never a perfect solution as many of the folks here can attest to   That's why we have a half dozen or more pairs .  Very sad !


Boy, tell me about it  Guess it'll be the MTW3 once I complete the return on these. The EX are a little out of my price range. I winced a bit when I bought the E8 3.0 a few years ago but they were still less than the EX.


----------



## darveniza

Just received the new Phillips that *erockg* had mentioned a while back

They are the type that sit outside the ear so fit is an issue but found L Spiral Dots to do the trick and enhanced the bass

Controls are not typical as they are push and hold (1s,2s,etc) for some of the main ones and then 2x and 3x for others

Multipoint is seamless and worked flawlessly

Phone calls and Zoom sessions are really really good, including BT connection stability

Case is rather large but like the finish, construction and lid of it. 

Good tip selection


----------



## subguy812

Posted this in another thread but felt it might be relevant here;

Sennheiser contacted me and I reviewed the 1st generation MTW. The MTW have, IMO, always had the best sound quality of the upper end TW available. The signature has always checked my box. Enter the TW2, continued on in the tradition and delivered the goods on sound quality, loved the app and the fit.

Now the #3.

I have some thoughts and impressions. This won't be extensive. Sound quality is great, just slightly better than the TW2 when I can find the sweet spot with the seal. Controls are much more sensitive on the TW3. Price reduction is a major thumbs up!

I enjoyed the app updates I saw with TW2, very similar to the TW3, but now registration is required is you want to use all of the features, minor inconvenience, but not sure why? Also, I only and always utilized the "high end sound tuning slider", great tuning. it is non-existent with the TW3. I don't use eq ever, but for those folks that do 3-sliders is actually worthless.

I need to add I also owned the CX, which is closer in fit to the TW3, but I think it was a hair larger. My issue with the TW3 is the fit. After trying all iterations, I have removed the fins, I would put them back on if I was working out. The L ear tip is always my go to, for comparison with my IEMs I use LL Final E tips (when I choose Final tips). With the nozzle length and design of the shell I need to work to achieve a seal on the TW3. Deep insertion is impossible. If there was a LL if it would be fine. Please don't recommend Comply tips, I won't even bother as I have never had good luck with them and don't like what they do to the sound. I have pulled both of my organizers filled with tips, but the Spinfit CP360 and the Final negatively impact the sound IMO.

The reason seal is critical on the TW3, as on my in-ears is for sound quality, to achieve the best bass response. It is even more critical to achieve proper seal with these because it effects more than SQ. Since this is a shallow fit monitor, pushing them in too far to achieve seal will ultimately block microphones and will cause you to sound muffled to the person you are speaking to on the other end. Seal is also completely necessary for ANC. If anyone is struggling with fit, but wants to try to make them work, make sure the bass boost slider is on in the EQ tab. Bass creates a natural isolation to outside noise.

This is not to discourage anyone, just my findings. My brother, who I made a Senn loyalist, has them as well and absolutely loves them

My 2 cents.


----------



## tombrisbane

Grabbed a Creative BT-W3 for my iPhone, makes a big difference on everything I’ve tried with it so far.  Not the most convenient setup at the moment (using the camera dongle) but worth it - will get a tidier lightning to USB C adapter at some point.


----------



## The1Signature

subguy812 said:


> Posted this in another thread but felt it might be relevant here;
> 
> Sennheiser contacted me and I reviewed the 1st generation MTW. The MTW have, IMO, always had the best sound quality of the upper end TW available. The signature has always checked my box. Enter the TW2, continued on in the tradition and delivered the goods on sound quality, loved the app and the fit.
> 
> ...


thanks for this short good review.

i am happy with my xm4 but consider to buy the tw3 or b&o ex. your insight helped me when comparing them closer.


----------



## Caipirina

erockg said:


> Nope, in the world of TWS, there's never a perfect solution as many of the folks here can attest to   That's why we have a half dozen or more pairs .  Very sad !


"Half Dozen" 

that's cute


----------



## Caipirina

subguy812 said:


> Posted this in another thread but felt it might be relevant here;
> 
> Sennheiser contacted me and I reviewed the 1st generation MTW. The MTW have, IMO, always had the best sound quality of the upper end TW available. The signature has always checked my box. Enter the TW2, continued on in the tradition and delivered the goods on sound quality, loved the app and the fit.
> 
> ...


Thanks! 

The word 'shallow fit' has me worried now .. for sure I will take a step back and not blindly order / buy them, but possibly hit up e-earphone to actually test the fit 
It's funny that now that I actually live in Tokyo I find the train trip to my fave earphone store hasslesome (takes 55 minutes one way and costs 360Y)


----------



## helmutcheese (May 17, 2022)

https://www.edifier.com/product-to-u2-mini.html


----------



## VICosPhi (May 17, 2022)

Got the MTW3 and have some comparisons with my fav TWS Technics AZ60.

MTW3 look good in Graphite and has a nice sound as well but I prefer the sub bass on Technics AZ60. There's bass boost option but it muddies the mids a lot so not very useful if you care about vocals. EQ is same 3band and works fine but would have been nice to have a 3+ band EQ. Vocals are slightly better than AZ60 but holographic staging is not as good as AZ60 (in fact it seems non-existent perhaps due to Senny reducing shell size for these). Microphones are good but not as loud(sensitive) as AZ60. Comfort is MUCH better than AZ60 and these are kind of small TWS which is nice as they don't stick out as much. Case is not as compact as AZ60 but smaller than the MTW2 case, wireless charging is a plus. Also have a weird issue with volume either being all the way up or all the way down when I take these out of the case! Hate to these blast at full volume randomly causing hearing damage. Firmware has been updated but still seeing the issue. I am not very impressed with these and will likely return my pair.


----------



## clerkpalmer

VICosPhi said:


> Got the MTW3 and have some comparisons with my fav TWS Technics AZ60.
> 
> MTW3 look good in Graphite and has a nice sound as well but I prefer the sub bass on Technics AZ60. There's bass boost option but it muddies the mids a lot so not very useful if you care about vocals. EQ is same 3band and works fine but would have been nice to have a 3+ band EQ. Vocals are slightly better than AZ60 but holographic staging is not as good as AZ60 (in fact it seems non-existent perhaps due to Senny reducing shell size for these). Microphones are good but not as loud(sensitive) as AZ60. Comfort is MUCH better than AZ60 and these are kind of small TWS which is nice as they don't stick out as much. Case is not as compact as AZ60 but smaller than the MTW2 case, wireless charging is a plus. Also have a weird issue with volume either being all the way up or all the way down when I take these out of the case! Hate to these blast at full volume randomly causing hearing damage. Firmware has been updated but still seeing the issue. I am not very impressed with these and will likely return my pair.


AZ60 users, any preferred EQ setting? Mine arrived today - first impressions are they aren’t super comfortable but sound is solid and ANC was surprisingly strong.


----------



## dweaver

clerkpalmer said:


> AZ60 users, any preferred EQ setting? Mine arrived today - first impressions are they aren’t super comfortable but sound is solid and ANC was surprisingly strong.


I started to use spinfits and they are now more comfy and I don't feel the need to EQ them.


----------



## VICosPhi

clerkpalmer said:


> AZ60 users, any preferred EQ setting? Mine arrived today - first impressions are they aren’t super comfortable but sound is solid and ANC was surprisingly strong.


I use JVC SpiralDOT++ tips which refines the treble and tames the bass a bit so mostly flat EQ, except -2dB on 315Hz and -1dB on 10K works for me.


----------



## cresny

clerkpalmer said:


> AZ60 users, any preferred EQ setting? Mine arrived today - first impressions are they aren’t super comfortable but sound is solid and ANC was surprisingly strong.


Here is Wavelet's preset for the AZ70. It looks extreme but this opened things up a lot for me.


----------



## Not so fat head

From sound signature alone, I can verify the B&W PI7’s are worth the $299 I paid.
These are my most expensive so far, but between Senn. M2’s, Bose QC’s, M&D 07’s, Bose sports, XM3’s and Bose soundsports frees, they’re just the best..
B&W did a great job passing the higher frequencies from the dynamic driver  to the balanced armature, very smooth.
Having separate amps for the transducers might be key…

Highly recommended 👍


----------



## Beh0lder

VICosPhi said:


> Also have a weird issue with volume either being all the way up or all the way down when I take these out of the case! Hate to these blast at full volume randomly causing hearing damage. Firmware has been updated but still seeing the issue. I am not very impressed with these and will likely return my pair.


It's not an issue it's a feature! Touch controls are set by default to volume change by holding either side. While picking them out of the case, touch is being registered and volume is either maxed or min depending which side registers it. You can disable/change volume control to taps in the app settings


----------



## subguy812

Caipirina said:


> Thanks!
> 
> The word 'shallow fit' has me worried now .. for sure I will take a step back and not blindly order / buy them, but possibly hit up e-earphone to actually test the fit
> It's funny that now that I actually live in Tokyo I find the train trip to my fave earphone store hasslesome (takes 55 minutes one way and costs 360Y)


Shallow fit can bring me issue due to my ear anatomy, I have a large ear hole, so with a short nozzle it can be a challenge. With longer nozzles it isn't as bad.


----------



## jant71 (May 18, 2022)

JVC getting a little confused I think....



Seems to be a budget Victor but not sure why. I mean it really isn't much of a Victor now is it? HA-A30T is a JVC naming convention. I have the A5T and A11T so I know that much. If you have a Victor and want to talk about SQ then why does this model only use SBC. Wow 2022, and only SBC and under the Victor brand. If the A11T has aptX you would think the A30T would have aptX also.

Otherwise it has potential. Bass boost mode on board, ANC, ambient, new improved insulation tips, smallest size and 4.2 grams weight only 28g for the case, low latency mode, 9 hour battery(7.5 with ANC on) and 10 minutes for 75 minute quick charge. Noise cancelling can be on during calls as well as on board mute for the mics and volume control on calls.
https://www.victor.jp/headphones/lineup/ha-a30t/

Figure this would be a JVC and slot in with the other JVC ANC model, the A50T.

So, it is a Victor but no codecs, a JVC look and name, and a cheap price($75 list and $69 real world). Looks good but also looks like it may disappoint. Still cheap enough to try though.


----------



## samandhi

jant71 said:


> JVC getting a little confused I think....
> 
> Seems to be a budget Victor but not sure why. I mean it really isn't much of a Victor now is it? HA-A30T is a JVC naming convention. I have the A5T and A11T so I know that much. If you have a Victor and want to talk about SQ then why does this model only use SBC. Wow 2022, and only SBC and under the Victor brand. If the A11T has aptX you would think the A30T would have aptX also.
> 
> ...


That doesn't sound cheap to me with only having SBC. If it had at least AAC, maybe yes...


----------



## jant71

samandhi said:


> That doesn't sound cheap to me with only having SBC. If it had at least AAC, maybe yes...


Well for a Victor it is.  Not as cheap as plenty of other budget brands that have all the codecs. All depends on the execution. If it still sounds good enough and if the ANC is good and the ambient and mics are quality. Cheap for a Victor but not cheap in the grand scheme. How good it is for the $75-ish dollars regardless of the codecs we shall see.


----------



## samandhi (May 18, 2022)

jant71 said:


> Well for a Victor it is.  Not as cheap as plenty of other budget brands that have all the codecs. All depends on the execution. If it still sounds good enough and if the ANC is good and the ambient and mics are quality. Cheap for a Victor but not cheap in the grand scheme. How good it is for the $75-ish dollars regardless of the codecs we shall see.


Of course you are right. Cost of these products comes down to if the consumer thinks it is worth it or not. A long time ago, I would have NEVER considered spending $1k for good IEMs.... I remember when Shure came out with their first IEMs that were $99 . I thought that was ridiculous (of course I bought them anyhow ) because I could get some good ole' Skullcandy for $20 or less... LOL

I guess I always look at sound quality first, then the "bells and whistles" last. So in my mind that is a rather steep price for SBC only. But I totally get what you are saying too.


----------



## jant71 (May 18, 2022)

samandhi said:


> Of course you are right. Cost of these products comes down to if the consumer thinks it is worth it or not. A long time ago, I would have NEVER considered spending $1k for good IEMs.... I remember when Shure came out with their first IEMs that were $99 . I thought that was ridiculous (of course I bought them anyhow ) because I could get some good ole' Skullcandy for $20 or less... LOL
> 
> I guess I always look at sound quality first, then the "bells and whistles" last. So in my mind that is a rather steep price for SBC only. But I totally get what you are saying too.



I am kinda tempted as I do like green and wouldn't mind having a green TWS.  They seem based on the A5T just a bit bigger and that is a great size and shape. The A5T had buttons and needed touch though. I am on board there as this is the best size and shape yet from JVC. The new tips look interesting too.







there is a video or two already


Well how bout that. Guess they are worth the price...



You get both ANC and SEX. Still need to see how good - on both counts.


----------



## VICosPhi (May 18, 2022)

Beh0lder said:


> It's not an issue it's a feature! Touch controls are set by default to volume change by holding either side. While picking them out of the case, touch is being registered and volume is either maxed or min depending which side registers it. You can disable/change volume control to taps in the app settings


Thanks, but isn't this a common way to control volume on other TWS as well? Technics have the same controls and doesn't suffer from this issue. Maybe some sensitivity issue with touch controls? Senny can probably fix this


----------



## james444

jant71 said:


> Wow 2022, and only SBC and under the Victor brand. If the A11T has aptX you would think the A30T would have aptX also.





samandhi said:


> That doesn't sound cheap to me with only having SBC. If it had at least AAC, maybe yes...



As an Android user (LG V30), I don't mind TWS that have only SBC. First of all, SBC at highest bitrate is almost as good as AAC and aptX, very small difference in fact:

http://soundexpert.org/encoders-320-kbps

And on Android, SBC actually offers more treble extension and 'air' than AAC, the latter of which may roll off as low as @14kHz on some phones:

https://www.soundguys.com/the-ultimate-guide-to-bluetooth-headphones-aac-20296/

IMO, driver quality and tuning are more important than codec support, so I don't mind having only SBC as long as the former are up to snuff.


----------



## BigZ12 (May 18, 2022)

Regarding my MTW3 fit problem, left ear, with noise/clipping when chewing/mouth movement.

The Fleixifit foam does help, but I have to say that ANC and sound quality aren't as good as with several silicon tips (and the original ones).

But... I found my ePro horn shaped tips for Airpods Pro, took them off the APP adapter and tried it. Worked well. Sadly they are size L, and a little too big.

I guess I don't get the "disturbance" in sound, because both the Flexifits and ePro are shorter/more shallow? (what word to use?) than most tips?
When using standard tips (Spinfit, JVC Spiral Dot, Final Audio , the original ones and so on), they go too deep in my ears, creating my problems.

Do you have some short/shallow tips to recommend? Or do I try the ePro Airpods in Mediums?

Edit: My friend tried them with the original size M. He had no noise/clipping or any other problem. So it has to be anatomical in my left ear.


----------



## Tommy C

VICosPhi said:


> Thanks, but isn't this a common way to control volume on other TWS as well? Technics have the same controls and doesn't suffer from this issue. Maybe some sensitivity issue with touch controls? Senny can probably fix this


The CA Melomania Touch suffered the same issue. It wasn’t because I the way I handled it but just a super annoying bug.


----------



## Beh0lder

I think the MTW3s would benefit from a larger outer deadzone like in the XM4s.


----------



## TK33

Misplaced my Sony Linkbuds last night.  Hoping I just left it at the office (was rushing out last night because I was late for an event) but I do really miss them today.  If they are not in the office tomorrow, I guess my next stop will be the closest store that carries them.

This got me thinking though that it would be great if TWS cases had Tile built in the same way Dell's new active stylus does.  That way I would already know if they are in the office or if the tiny case just fell out of my pocket somewhere (in which case I would probably be using my new set by now). Still hoping I just left them at work.  This is why you NEED multiple TWS (my wife took my Galaxy Buds Live for a run today so I have been "stuck" using my PI7s for calls today).


----------



## samandhi

james444 said:


> As an Android user (LG V30), I don't mind TWS that have only SBC. First of all, SBC at highest bitrate is almost as good as AAC and aptX, very small difference in fact:
> 
> http://soundexpert.org/encoders-320-kbps
> 
> ...


On paper only. And just because the bitrate is better, doesn't make it sound better. It just means that more data can be passed through with less compression. The implementation is rarely good, and my ears tell me without having to look and see that SBC is not really near as good as AAC even, even though they have recently improved the codec itself. 

Yes, SBC offers more treble extension, at the cost of tizzy sound. All of your facts are on point, but those don't tell you how good the quality of the sound will be. And in this case SBC is no longer considered an option with 95% of the people buying new gear (and for good reason). 

I absolutely agree with your last statement. But, the sound you hear will only be as good as the worst part of your chain. I have actually done this test with both the Melomania Touch, and the Hifiman Deva, and they do NOT sound very good out of SBC; though if it were all you had, one could live with it. If you are happy with SBC only, then $70 for a pair that uses a codec that is from two decades ago, isn't a bad price at all.


----------



## jant71 (May 18, 2022)

james444 said:


> As an Android user (LG V30), I don't mind TWS that have only SBC. First of all, SBC at highest bitrate is almost as good as AAC and aptX, very small difference in fact:
> 
> http://soundexpert.org/encoders-320-kbps
> 
> ...


I did have this 

and this 

. The cheaper one doesn't have aptX though they are identical otherwise. For me there is a difference and the aptX one does sound a bit better as far as detail info and air. They have to do a good job on the driver. In fact this driver is 6mm and is also in the higher up Victor FX100T. I have had that one as well.

Good chance this new Victor will again have this 6mm driver. Hopefully it will be an improved version and not recycled. Hopefully it will be treated better like in the first Victor model. I like that E-Earphone review at least she says it seems to have some highs with some detail. The first Victor had high quality bass but a very smooth polite treble with details that were smoothed over. Certainly needed some EQ as it lacked air for my tastes. Less up high than the CKS50TW, Yamaha, Nuarl, Lavabeans, E16, and a couple of others.

I like my Lavabeans that only use SBC and AAC they run with more pricey stuff but they cost me ~$16 so that is almost $75 cheaper than the new Victor will cost including the Global shipping. I only use them with SBC and they can be very good with the right tips. I think they can do good job but like the cheaper sports model and lower models they leave off aptX when they are doing budget SQ or lowering SQ some. I really would like them to improve on the sound instead making sure it is lesser than the FXT100. That old thing should not dictate and they should try and match it plus tune better and not make sure it is worse than the first go around.


----------



## jant71

TK33 said:


> Misplaced my Sony Linkbuds last night.  Hoping I just left it at the office (was rushing out last night because I was late for an event) but I do really miss them today.  If they are not in the office tomorrow, I guess my next stop will be the closest store that carries them.
> 
> This got me thinking though that it would be great if TWS cases had Tile built in the same way Dell's new active stylus does.  That way I would already know if they are in the office or if the tiny case just fell out of my pocket somewhere (in which case I would probably be using my new set by now). Still hoping I just left them at work.  This is why you NEED multiple TWS (my wife took my Galaxy Buds Live for a run today so I have been "stuck" using my PI7s for calls today).


Skullcandy does that. 

. They plug that partnership quite a bit. Too bad they don't make any serious TWS. Ok but you might not actually care that you lost them. Might just be fine with it since you can go buy something better.  So is this Tile/Skullcandly really the most worthwhile partnership?


----------



## TK33 (May 18, 2022)

jant71 said:


> Skullcandy does that. . They plug that partnership quite a bit. Too bad they don't make any serious TWS. Ok but you might not actually care that you lost them. Might just be fine with it since you can go buy something better.  So is this Tile/Skullcandly really the most worthwhile partnership?


Interesting and agree with you there.  Probably mostly marketing for that partnership.  As I think about it more, my guess is that Sony would prefer that I not find my missing Linkbuds in hopes that I will just go buy a new one.


----------



## ilatimer1

Well I received my MTW3s today and after a firmware update I have to say I am disappointed. I have the MTW2 and to me they sound better. The MTW3s just sound muddy to me. I haven't played with the EQ yet so we will see. Another thing I noticed is to me they feel really cheap compared to my Beoplay EXs. I absolutely love the sound of the EXs, but I'm always interested in new stuff. Finally the tips are terrible, but they usually are. Another weird thing when I smile, I can feel the square edges in my ears. I will probably play with them a little more, but probably sending them back.


----------



## jant71 (May 18, 2022)

Two more days:
https://electronics.sony.com/audio/...MID=0&XID=E:709579:UUPAUDIEHPWFLS900PREORDER2

Maybe a bit too much on the auto adjusting thing. Just make them easy to control and we can switch to ambient or ANC when we want. Maybe if it isn't learning and adjusting to your behavior it could get more battery life than 6 hours.  Surprised they do LDAC. Down to a 5mm driver and we now have DSEE Extreme.

@TK33 looks like you can find these Sony a bit more than original Linkbuds??


----------



## VICosPhi

ilatimer1 said:


> Well I received my MTW3s today and after a firmware update I have to say I am disappointed. I have the MTW2 and to me they sound better. The MTW3s just sound muddy to me. I haven't played with the EQ yet so we will see. Another thing I noticed is to me they feel really cheap compared to my Beoplay EXs. I absolutely love the sound of the EXs, but I'm always interested in new stuff. Finally the tips are terrible, but they usually are. Another weird thing when I smile, I can feel the square edges in my ears. I will probably play with them a little more, but probably sending them back.


I agree with this, MTW2 had a bit more treble. However, a couple people thought MTW3 sound too bright!
 But then EX are also kinda dark sounding to me. Funny how we all experience audio differently. 

I am looking forward to XM5 TWS as Sony did redesign the over the ears XM so let's see what they bring to TWS form. Not sure it will be released anytime soon however.


----------



## TK33

jant71 said:


> .
> 
> @TK33 looks like you can find these Sony a bit more than original Linkbuds??


Thanks.  I see that in the original Linkbuds settings (under Android's Bluetooth Settings menu).  Unfortunately, last known location only works if you were sharing location and location history is on.  I had those settings turned off so it just says last known location unavailable and shows the last time they were connected.  It is also only the last known location, not where it is currently (Tile shows more updated location info since it uses Bluetooth signals from other nearby Tile users).  Also, in order to make them ring in Find Device, you have to be connected to the earbuds (you can choose to ring left or right but it is all grayed out if you are disconnected).  I did retrace my steps back to the train station last night trying to reconnect just in case I did drop them on my way home (unlikely since I was not using them). Probably more useful if you drop them under a bed or on a plane or they fall out of your ear while in use.  I found Samsung's implementation to be similar to Sony's as well.  Not too useful if trying to find them while disconnected.


----------



## meridius

VICosPhi said:


> I agree with this, MTW2 had a bit more treble. However, a couple people thought MTW3 sound too bright!
> But then EX are also kinda dark sounding to me. Funny how we all experience audio differently.
> 
> I am looking forward to XM5 TWS as Sony did redesign the over the ears XM so let's see what they bring to TWS form. Not sure it will be released anytime soon however.


I thought the 3s sounded better than the 2s but did sound more detailed than the 2s.  

Also when Sony bring out there version 5s I would like to try them out but I will hope they get rid of them crappy foam tips as they just dont last.


----------



## Sam L

ilatimer1 said:


> Well I received my MTW3s today and after a firmware update I have to say I am disappointed. I have the MTW2 and to me they sound better. The MTW3s just sound muddy to me. I haven't played with the EQ yet so we will see. Another thing I noticed is to me they feel really cheap compared to my Beoplay EXs. I absolutely love the sound of the EXs, but I'm always interested in new stuff. Finally the tips are terrible, but they usually are. Another weird thing when I smile, I can feel the square edges in my ears. I will probably play with them a little more, but probably sending them back.


I think I'll pass on the MTW3's, the 2's respond decently well to eq, so I'll pass on the 3's,


----------



## Caipirina

Anyone here got the 
UGREEN HiTune X6?​There is a fat 30% off coupon on local amazon right now and all I find via google seem to be bot generated reviews and youtubers I never heard of before   Trust issues 

Really don't need another cheapo set, then again ... i like getting packages from amazon


----------



## Juturna

Sam L said:


> I think I'll pass on the MTW3's, the 2's respond decently well to eq, so I'll pass on the 3's,


I listened to the MTW3's in a store yesterday... just a quick impression, but I wasn't especially impressed. 
Like, did they sound good? Yeah absolutely fine. But I wasn't even remotely impressed by any aspects of the sound, there was nothing that sounded bad or anything but it wasn't an upgrade from anything I already own. 

The fit was the only part that felt like a clear upgrade compared to previous iterations, fit really snugly in my ear and didn't feel like much at all.


----------



## Juturna

meridius said:


> I thought the 3s sounded better than the 2s but did sound more detailed than the 2s.
> 
> Also when Sony bring out there version 5s I would like to try them out but I will hope they get rid of them crappy foam tips as they just dont last.


I just hope that Sony revamps their design language, the WF1000-XM4's are literally the only true wireless earbud out of like 20+ that I've owned that has been completely incompatible with my ears. Like sure it stayed in my ear, but it didn't sit like it was supposed to at all, like the body was completely jutting out from my ears if I had the actual eartips fitted properly in the ear canal. 

Plus I don't think I'm interested in another WF-1000-model unless they change up their tuning or give even more extensive EQ options in the app.


----------



## The1Signature

Juturna said:


> I just hope that Sony revamps their design language, the WF1000-XM4's are literally the only true wireless earbud out of like 20+ that I've owned that has been completely incompatible with my ears. Like sure it stayed in my ear, but it didn't sit like it was supposed to at all, like the body was completely jutting out from my ears if I had the actual eartips fitted properly in the ear canal.
> 
> Plus I don't think I'm interested in another WF-1000-model unless they change up their tuning or give even more extensive EQ options in the app.


i had the same impression as you... and like many others as well. my game changer was to change the stock tips with final audio typ e. it fits perfect, isolates better and it is positioned as it should be i think (when looking at the pictures on the homepage).


----------



## subguy812

I have the B&O EX on the way. Will check them out vs. the TW3


----------



## The1Signature

subguy812 said:


> I have the B&O EX on the way. Will check them out vs. the TW3


wow. EX would be the only one model where i could think of changing my xm4. keen to hear your impressions.


----------



## gandalftomte

I've been reading this thread on and off for a while now trying to figure out what my first "serious" TWS should be, but at the same time trying to avoid the bottomless rabbit hole.
I was thinking about either AZ60 (no in-ear sensor) or MTW3 (the lack of "proper" EQ), then I found that AZ60 is currently sold for 160 eur at amazon.it, so I went for it.

Now I just have to wait and see if it is as nice as I hope.


----------



## C_Lindbergh

gandalftomte said:


> I've been reading this thread on and off for a while now trying to figure out what my first "serious" TWS should be, but at the same time trying to avoid the bottomless rabbit hole.
> I was thinking about either AZ60 (no in-ear sensor) or MTW3 (the lack of "proper" EQ), then I found that AZ60 is currently sold for 160 eur at amazon.it, so I went for it.
> 
> Now I just have to wait and see if it is as nice as I hope.


That's a really great price for a new pair of AZ60!

I just sold my used AZ60 for only 50 EUR less.


----------



## helmutcheese (May 19, 2022)

A pity some still use older BT 5.0/5.1 Chipsets, or the battery would be up there with the 10 hours ANC-Off / 8 hours ANC-On models.


----------



## jant71 (May 19, 2022)

helmutcheese said:


> A pity some still use older BT 5.0/5.1 Chipsets, or the battery would be up there with the 10 hours ANC-Off / 8 hours ANC-On models.



Those are mostly old ones. Endurance Race? Live Free 2? Those others all are kinda old.  Like the 230NC. Checked the date first out on Amazon - October 13th.



Meanwhile...




JVC deciding Kenwood is for "business" and "telework". Still have a 6mm driver and we add AAC to SBC but the price is higher than the Victor budget model at around $119. Not sure of the JVC approach with the first TWS being so app and voice assistant integrated and this being big on multipoint and telework focused. Kenwood is car stereos and GPS systems and some components but not sure about the Kenwood for the office crowd thing. But I guess that is the direction. JVC is consumer, Victor is studio and audiophile, and Kenwood is communications.


----------



## Trager

So my replacement MTW3 units arrived from Amazon this morning, and the popping and weird sounds on the R earbud were definitely a defect in my original set. I don’t hear that at all with the new ones. 

Unfortunately, my Beoplay EX also came in this morning, and out of the box, they sound MUCH more musical to my ears. ANC and isolation don’t sound anywhere near as good as the MTW3, but I suspect that’s a tip issue.


----------



## james444 (May 19, 2022)

samandhi said:


> On paper only. And just because the bitrate is better, doesn't make it sound better. It just means that more data can be passed through with less compression. The implementation is rarely good, and my ears tell me without having to look and see that SBC is not really near as good as AAC even, even though they have recently improved the codec itself.
> 
> Yes, SBC offers more treble extension, at the cost of tizzy sound. All of your facts are on point, but those don't tell you how good the quality of the sound will be. And in this case SBC is no longer considered an option with 95% of the people buying new gear (and for good reason).
> 
> I absolutely agree with your last statement. But, the sound you hear will only be as good as the worst part of your chain. I have actually done this test with both the Melomania Touch, and the Hifiman Deva, and they do NOT sound very good out of SBC; though if it were all you had, one could live with it. If you are happy with SBC only, then $70 for a pair that uses a codec that is from two decades ago, isn't a bad price at all.



I agree with you that implementation plays a role, too. But note that this applies to the other codecs as well, not just to SBC.

However, I disagree with you that better treble extension of SBC vs. AAC comes at the cost of tizzy sound. Tizzy sound is the result of too much high treble energy (aka: treble spikes) at certain frequencies, not the result of treble extension. Actually, I can measure the frequency response of several TWS over SBC and some of them will have treble spikes while others will have smooth, downsloping treble. But this is always caused by driver quality / tuning and not by the codec.

Last not least, I also disagree with you that high bitrate SBC sounds good "on paper only". You've obviously not read the footnote on the Soundexperts page I linked, because there's an explanation that their ratings are based on actual blind listening tests, not just on theory. If you want, you can even take their blind test and help improve the accuracy of their ratings:  http://soundexpert.org/testing-room

Of course that doesn't rule out the possibility that you may be the outlier that has better ears than everybody else. But for the majority of listeners that have taken the test, the results show that they didn't hear any sound artifacts with SBC at high bitrate.

Btw, fun fact that most people who obsess about codecs don't know that their aptX, aptx HD or LDAC transmission actually happens to one earpiece only. Because unless you have a phone / TWS combo which supports synchronous streaming to both earpieces (Qualcomm's proprietary TWS+ technology, still used by just a small minority of configurations) , only the streaming from your phone to the master earpiece will use aptX, aptx HD or LDAC compression. The secondary transmission, however, from your master earpiece to the slave earpiece, will always use ... guess what? ... high bitrate SBC.


----------



## jant71 (May 19, 2022)

I did a quick, non-scientific comparison with my stuff. I thought the aptX TWS sounded better than the one wired SBC only earphones. Over SBC only I thought the result reversed and the TWS sounded more compressed. Not as clean or extended. AptX vs. made them sound both about the same size. Both JVC 16ohm drivers. One states 5.8mm and the other 6.0mm both tuned quite close. Both ipX5 but I had removed the screens from the bore of the Sports model.

In my application I would have appreciated if they had given the new Victor the aptX.

I did find the JVC version for the US...



Over here it will not have green or gray/pink colorways. Just black, white, and blue.


----------



## LastFantasy (May 19, 2022)

helmutcheese said:


> A pity some still use older BT 5.0/5.1 Chipsets, or the battery would be up there with the 10 hours ANC-Off / 8 hours ANC-On models.



JBL LIVE Free 2, which was not shown in the video, includes LE Audio.(which will be supported by upgrade later)

SONY LinkBuds S, which was just unveiled, also includes LE Audio.(which will be supported by upgrade later)


----------



## The1Signature (May 19, 2022)

Trager said:


> Unfortunately, my Beoplay EX also came in this morning, and out of the box, they sound MUCH more musical to my ears. ANC and isolation don’t sound anywhere near as good as the MTW3, but I suspect that’s a tip issue.


this what the reviews say as well.

ex has a much better sound but anc is a kind of prio 2 and b&o.


----------



## Caipirina

gandalftomte said:


> I've been reading this thread on and off for a while now trying to figure out what my first "serious" TWS should be, but at the same time trying to avoid the bottomless rabbit hole.
> I was thinking about either AZ60 (no in-ear sensor) or MTW3 (the lack of "proper" EQ), then I found that AZ60 is currently sold for 160 eur at amazon.it, so I went for it.
> 
> Now I just have to wait and see if it is as nice as I hope.


I was very late to the AZ60 game and regret I did not get them earlier ... they are really awesome ... things like in-ear sensor or wireless charging I can totally live without .. sound & fit are awesome and they are reliable (like, no surprise battery discharge over night, I know I can pick them up and trust they will play)

Enjoy!

I have yet to test the MTW3 ... but from reading along here I sense that I might not be as impressed with them as I am with the AZ60


----------



## dweaver

Wow the Linkbud S is silly expensive. $299Cad. At that price they would have to be perfect and aside from comfort they sound like a compromise.

Curious about sound impressions though, if they are more balanced sonically they might worth looking at when they eventually drop in price.


----------



## The1Signature

dweaver said:


> Wow the Linkbud S is silly expensive. $299Cad. At that price they would have to be perfect and aside from comfort they sound like a compromise.
> 
> Curious about sound impressions though, if they are more balanced sonically they might worth looking at when they eventually drop in price.


the naming linkbuds s is confusing.

i have the xm4 and the linkbuds

xm4 = the one any only anc in ear with a great powerful sound.
linkbuds = no bass at all, perfect for listening to podcasts or videos. clear voice while hearing 95% of your surrounding. also great in like a library for listening to lofi beats.

both are complementary here.

linkbuds s ... is somehow between.

i thought linkbuds will be the "open" ones from sony in the future but the linkbuds s are closed.

i thought the linkbuds series will not have an anc but the linkbuds s have one.


----------



## dasadab

Trager said:


> So my replacement MTW3 units arrived from Amazon this morning, and the popping and weird sounds on the R earbud were definitely a defect in my original set. I don’t hear that at all with the new ones.
> 
> Unfortunately, my Beoplay EX also came in this morning, and out of the box, they sound MUCH more musical to my ears. ANC and isolation don’t sound anywhere near as good as the MTW3, but I suspect that’s a tip issue.


Really interested in your continuing impressions of the Beoplay EX.  I am going to return the MTW3s.  The MTW3s sound decent overall--not wow!, but anyway they don't fit me great.  I would rather double down and spend more to get something clearly sonically superior--if that's the Beoplay EXs.


----------



## bladefd

The1Signature said:


> the naming linkbuds s is confusing.
> 
> i have the xm4 and the linkbuds
> 
> ...


Do the linkbuds leak sound due to the open design?


----------



## alsorkin (May 19, 2022)

clerkpalmer said:


> Does 5.0 offer any actual audio improvements?  I have read mixed reports.  AptxHD maybe requires 5.0?


5.2 has the extended range (class 1) plus can be implemented with Snapdragon Sound certification if the vendor decides to implement. I have very great SQ with a Snapdragon Sound certified smartphone (Motorola Edge 2021) and the Snapdragon Sound certified Fiio UTWS5 coupled to my Fiio FH9 iems. Lossless BT is here!


----------



## Sp12er3 (May 19, 2022)

I think the link buds line is just a line of IEMs designed to be always in your ear, thus the small size for the S model, also 4g weight and actually the best Ambience mode on Sony TWS as of date.
It also have decent ANC, enough to not make it fall behind the M4s. It's low profile so good to lay on the side of your head with and have same battery life, it's not compromise, just actually seems more like an XM4s in overall smaller package.
I do think the XM4 is gonna be the better IEM but some people just prefer comfort over everything else.

Now if only it has the Same "touch your cheek" to control its nav buttons as the holey Link Buds.

It's designed to be an in between from the XM4 and the Linkbud ls and I think it's achieving that.
For people who already have both tho, probably not much of a recommendation.


----------



## The1Signature

bladefd said:


> Do the linkbuds leak sound due to the open design?


yes. but i highly enjoy them every day. great quality for calls, when being in the office and want to listen to music at lover volumes. the mids and highs are good - better than expected. but don't expect bass at all.

i see xm4 + linkbuds = 100% complementary.


----------



## The1Signature

clerkpalmer said:


> Does 5.0 offer any actual audio improvements?  I have read mixed reports.  AptxHD maybe requires 5.0?


the jump from 4.2 to 5.0 was amazing

- 2x speed
- 4x range
- 8x data
- lower energy level

this was truly a jump in improvement.


----------



## The1Signature (Jun 12, 2022)

Sp12er3 said:


> I think the link buds line is just a line of IEMs designed to be always in your ear, thus the small size for the S model, also 4g weight and actually the best Ambience mode on Sony TWS as of date.


i remember that i was wearing the linkbuds for 12 hours with 60 minutes break in between (lunchtime). i totally forgot that i was wearing them. at around 7pm i had to think about and try to feel if i do still wear them or i lost them hours ago  - they are just so comfortable. i coundn't imagine that one can wear in ear for 12 hours and totally forget them + being able to be in touch with family, friends, calls, and office with ease simultaneously.



Sp12er3 said:


> It's designed to be an in between from the XM4 and the Linkbud ls and I think it's achieving that.
> For people who already have both tho, probably not much of a recommendation.


i have the xm4 and linkbuds and i absolutely do not think about buying the linkbuds s, true.


----------



## erockg

Trager said:


> So my replacement MTW3 units arrived from Amazon this morning, and the popping and weird sounds on the R earbud were definitely a defect in my original set. I don’t hear that at all with the new ones.
> 
> Unfortunately, my Beoplay EX also came in this morning, and out of the box, they sound MUCH more musical to my ears. ANC and isolation don’t sound anywhere near as good as the MTW3, but I suspect that’s a tip issue.


I've been going through the same issue here.  Love the MTW3 but hands down, my EX and the Astell & Kern (my previous new additions) just blow them away musically.  Wider soundstage and a lot more fun.  Decisions, decisions.  Anyone else here considering returning their MTW3?


----------



## jant71

We have a new curve for both wired and wireless listening. Knowles has deemed the Harman old and stodgy and not for today's listening habits including streaming and wireless.





“Consumers want hi-res, premium sound through their TWS earphones. This has been a challenge for OEMs who have had no clear guideline for what consumers prefer across the full spectrum. Now we know exactly how to design and tune a TWS earphone to create the best sounding audio available,” says Shehab Albahri, Sr. Director of Knowles Hearing Health Technologies R&D. “Brands that design with hi-res capable hardware and tune their earphones to the Knowles Curve will unlock the true potential of lossless streaming audio.”


----------



## VICosPhi

erockg said:


> I've been going through the same issue here.  Love the MTW3 but hands down, my EX and the Astell & Kern (my previous new additions) just blow them away musically.  Wider soundstage and a lot more fun.  Decisions, decisions.  Anyone else here considering returning their MTW3?


I returned my MTW3 and EX as well. Back to AZ60 which imo are tough to beat. I can't wait for the next Technics iteration of the AZ series TWS.


----------



## helmutcheese (May 19, 2022)

alsorkin said:


> 5.2 has the extended range (class 1) plus can be implemented with Snapdragon Sound certification if the vendor decides to implement. I have very great SQ with a Snapdragon Sound certified smartphone (Motorola Edge 2021) and the Snapdragon Sound certified Fiio UTWS5 coupled to my Fiio FH9 iems. Lossless BT is here!


Bluetooth for many revisions now can be Class 1 or Class 2, there have been 30-100m transmitters since at least 4.0 AFAIR, it all comes down to the power so battery life for small buds and no doubt less space for decent sized antenna means you do not see it often.


----------



## helmutcheese

The1Signature said:


> the jump from 4.2 to 5.0 was amazing
> 
> - 2x speed
> - 4x range
> ...


In reality is did little for our buds apart from possibly battery life, not sure if the aptX-HD codec was on non 5.0 buds as even then when 5.0 appeared it was not on many buds, I had it on Soundpeats non TWS/Neckbands.

You still get the 10m limit on class 2 buds, the range and speed are one or the other not both at the same time.

5.1 meh, 5.2 pretty good esp. battery life.

In the past 4.1 to 4.2 was a good jump but not many buds used it, I had it on one pair of Creatives non TWS.


----------



## Trager

erockg said:


> I've been going through the same issue here.  Love the MTW3 but hands down, my EX and the Astell & Kern (my previous new additions) just blow them away musically.  Wider soundstage and a lot more fun.  Decisions, decisions.  Anyone else here considering returning their MTW3?


So I tried both while driving tonight… the EX were okay, they’re definitely better for music but the ANC is strictly so-so. The MTW3 has really damn good ANC. I even tried putting the top down and the MTW3 handled wind noise incredibly well — this is exactly the test that made me give up on the AZ60s. I feel like if the MTW3 had a better EQ setup, I could get them to really work for me for music… but as it stands, they’re at least fantastic for podcasts during my commute. Freeway driving, top down, I had the volume at maybe 30% and it was clear as a bell. Very impressive.


----------



## gandalftomte (May 20, 2022)

Caipirina said:


> I was very late to the AZ60 game and regret I did not get them earlier ... they are really awesome ... things like in-ear sensor or wireless charging I can totally live without .. sound & fit are awesome and they are reliable (like, no surprise battery discharge over night, I know I can pick them up and trust they will play)
> 
> Enjoy!
> 
> I have yet to test the MTW3 ... but from reading along here I sense that I might not be as impressed with them as I am with the AZ60



Thanks!
My hopes are high, lots of people seem to really like the AZ60.

What mostly has been holding be back from buying any TWS for a long time has been the inability to listen to them before buying, and most shops here in Sweden don't allow TWS returns at all, so you are stuck with what you buy.
There are lots of reviews and people try to explain what they sound like which is hard and very subjective, and frequency response curves only says so much (and I don't know what I prefer anyway, just comparing stuff to a harman curve might not help me much in the end).
Sometimes people compare to other TWS which is a good data point (especially after having watched/read maaany reviews and forum comments) but most of the time doesn't directly help me as I havn't heard those other TWS either...

This is hard, I don't like buying things without knowing if it is something that I will like and enjoy using.

From what I've understood the sound is good (ofc not everyone likes the same thing) and that is of high importance, my list preferences goes something like this:

Good sound quality (very subjective) that doesn't need an insane amount of EQ tweaking before sounding decent.
Built-in EQ (that isn't too limited) so that multiple sources can be used easily while retaining the same experience.
Volume and playback controls on the buds.
No constant white noise, can be acceptable in transparency mode only.
ANC, doesn't have to be the best as long as it does something decent and more importantly doesn't change the sound signature a whole lot (my current set of TWS is horrible at this).
Transparency that is loud and clear enough to easily be able to hold a conversation (with music paused).
Multipoint for when switching between work laptop and phone.
In-ear sensor is convenient but not a must have.
Wireless charging isn't very important, we mainly use cables anyway, wireless results in heat and batteries don't like heat. I don't use TWS so much that I need to charge the case all the time anyway.
Low phantom battery drain (my current TWS has some, at least I have to charge the case more often than I should have to based on the little amount of time I'm using them)
My current TWS is a chi-fi set, Tronsmart Apollo Bold aren't very good, I'm sort-of certain that many of these areas are implemented better in the AZ60:

They have waaaaaaaaaaaaay too much sub-bass but if you EQ that down (in the source) an insane amount then they start to become decent, especially if high-mids and treble is boosted a bit (and then you switch source and have to do it all over again, if even possible).
The in-device presets destroy treble (sounds like it is resampled at a lower sample rate), this also occurs in ANC and transparency modes so I don't use those modes much, there is no in-device EQ available other than the presets.
ANC also destroys the sound signature by boosting the sub-bass even more while also reducing mids 
There is white noise all the time (different amount in different modes).
And some phantom battery drain.
Fit isn't very good.
In-ear detection works quite well.
In short, I'm tired of them and want something much better while at the same time not repeating past buying mistakes, which is hard.
Best audio purchase recently has been the Soundcore Life Q30 (not a "premium" product but quite decent due to having EQ that responds well), default EQ is horrible, some presets are decent'ish (at least when compared to default), but they also change sound signature a lot when ANC is enabled (not very good ANC), I mostly use them without ANC.


----------



## C_Lindbergh

gandalftomte said:


> What mostly has been holding be back from buying any TWS for a long time has been the inability to listen to them before buying, and most shops here in Sweden don't allow TWS returns at all, so you are stuck with what you buy.


Amazon.se/de (30 days free return) have many of the popular TWS, also hifi klubben have a few as demos in their stores.


----------



## scubaphish

erockg said:


> I've been going through the same issue here.  Love the MTW3 but hands down, my EX and the Astell & Kern (my previous new additions) just blow them away musically.  Wider soundstage and a lot more fun.  Decisions, decisions.  Anyone else here considering returning their MTW3?


I returned mine yesterday…keeping the FoKus Pro


----------



## VICosPhi

Bestbuy USA has Liberty 3 Pros on sale for $99  

https://www.bestbuy.com/site/soundc...04cd83511ec8a8282142f90b8d80INT&skuId=6476198


----------



## erockg

scubaphish said:


> I returned mine yesterday…keeping the FoKus Pro


My FoKus wouldn’t go anywhere.  MTW3 do have great ANC and Transparency.  But something about the sound signature… this always happens when I start comparing Sennie TWS with others.


----------



## scubaphish

erockg said:


> My FoKus wouldn’t go anywhere.  MTW3 do have great ANC and Transparency.  But something about the sound signature… this always happens when I start comparing Sennie TWS with others.


Yeah, it took me a while, but now that I’ve got the FoKus I’m hooked. Walked around NYC yesterday, took the subway, too. Isolation is astounding. Had more than just a few Bluetooth blips from interference. Not enough to scare me off from loving them. Never played with an EQ so much; very responsive, as I find my sound.


----------



## erockg

scubaphish said:


> Yeah, it took me a while, but now that I’ve got the FoKus I’m hooked. Walked around NYC yesterday, took the subway, too. Isolation is astounding. Had more than just a few Bluetooth blips from interference. Not enough to scare me off from loving them. Never played with an EQ so much; very responsive, as I find my sound.


They are definitely a stellar set.  I’ll be in the city week after next. I’ll test out a few pairs.  Headed to Citi Field too.  LFGM!


----------



## Trager

erockg said:


> My FoKus wouldn’t go anywhere.  MTW3 do have great ANC and Transparency.  But something about the sound signature… this always happens when I start comparing Sennie TWS with others.


This is exactly how I feel about the Senn sound overall, really. I just don’t dig their “laid-back” sound sig.


----------



## logiatype

jant71 said:


> We have a new curve for both wired and wireless listening. Knowles has deemed the Harman old and stodgy and not for today's listening habits including streaming and wireless.
> 
> 
> “Consumers want hi-res, premium sound through their TWS earphones. This has been a challenge for OEMs who have had no clear guideline for what consumers prefer across the full spectrum. Now we know exactly how to design and tune a TWS earphone to create the best sounding audio available,” says Shehab Albahri, Sr. Director of Knowles Hearing Health Technologies R&D. “Brands that design with hi-res capable hardware and tune their earphones to the Knowles Curve will unlock the true potential of lossless streaming audio.”


Much better curve. Harman IEM needs more air above 10k.


----------



## erockg

Trager said:


> This is exactly how I feel about the Senn sound overall, really. I just don’t dig their “laid-back” sound sig.


Every time I buy their buds I’m excited but it fades when I put in the Fokus, EX and the Astell & Kern.  Bummer!


----------



## Linus Jian

scubaphish said:


> Yeah, it took me a while, but now that I’ve got the FoKus I’m hooked. Walked around NYC yesterday, took the subway, too. Isolation is astounding. Had more than just a few Bluetooth blips from interference. Not enough to scare me off from loving them. Never played with an EQ so much; very responsive, as I find my sound.


Do you think the isolation on the fokus pro is comparable to tws with good anc (like sony xm4)? I use tws mostly on the subway train.


----------



## erockg

Linus Jian said:


> Do you think the isolation on the fokus pro is comparable to tws with good anc (like sony xm4)? I use tws mostly on the subway train.


Depending on your seal, the XM4 block out more, but also with a great seal, the FoKus can get great passive isolation.  Depends on your usage situation.


----------



## scubaphish

Linus Jian said:


> Do you think the isolation on the fokus pro is comparable to tws with good anc (like sony xm4)? I use tws mostly on the subway train.


I can’t compare to the XM4, but my last set was the Devialet Gemini, which I think had stellar noise cancellation. While these didn’t reach that level, they were close.  I think they were definitely better than AirPods Pro.  Subway ride was good. 
Note I’m using the dual flange tips, so extra isolation


----------



## Trager

erockg said:


> Depending on your seal, the XM4 block out more, but also with a great seal, the FoKus can get great passive isolation.  Depends on your usage situation.


I think you might be making the case for me to return both MTW4 and EX and get a set of FoKus instead. I used my CL2 with the bluetooth cable as my wireless set for several years, and passive isolation was just fine. I’ve been jumping on the ANC bandwagon just because curious, mostly.


----------



## jant71

logiatype said:


> Much better curve. Harman IEM needs more air above 10k.


Agree. Especially for wireless but in general as well. maybe we can stop getting these smoothed over TWS. Wish more would tune and don't want to see more doing Sound ID and whatever.


----------



## logiatype

jant71 said:


> Agree. Especially for wireless but in general as well. maybe we can stop getting these smoothed over TWS. Wish more would tune and don't want to see more doing Sound ID and whatever.


For sure. I've practically stopped using TWS (N400 once in a while) and gone back to my ES100. I don't need ANC. Manufacturers just do such a poor job of tuning these things AND not providing decent EQ.


----------



## jant71 (May 20, 2022)

logiatype said:


> For sure. I've practically stopped using TWS (N400 once in a while) and gone back to my ES100. I don't need ANC. Manufacturers just do such a poor job of tuning these things AND not providing decent EQ.


Kinda cool but yes, after a bit, I realized I don't need it. Might not need ambient either. Thinking of getting a TRN TA1 Max which it seems you can hear through pretty well since it is pretty open back. So, just press pause and talk and hear. My WU1 and a Max seems like the right wireless solution for me for a big open sound, that missing treble restored, and hear through when I need. Better till TWS improve some more.


----------



## dj24

Folks who've had both the FoKus Pro and the AZ60- which one has the best overall call quality (including zoom & other VOIPs)?


----------



## tonyfiore75

Sooooo... I decided try the B&O Beoplay EX since so many of you have been hyping them up. I wanted to compare them against the Senn MTW 3. The Senns will be going back and I'm keeping the EX. The question is why?

1) The EX just fits way better. I seem to get a better seal with the EX (tried many tips). I found myself trying to push the Senns deeper into my ear canals regularly. I think this is just a design thing and the actual shape of my ears. The Senns are more fatiguing for my ears. 

2) The EX has a more dynamic sound. It sounds exciting but not over the top. I like the instrument separation better too with the EX. This is probably just a personal preference with regard to sound signature but I have to say that I much prefer the B&O signature sound vs. the Sennheiser sound (having previously owned the EQs and many pairs of Sennheisers in the past). 

3) I thought I would hate the stems on the EX. I don't. I actually find it much easier to take the EX out of my ears using the stems. And I don't accidentally press the touch controls accidentally like I do with all of my other TWS. 

4) ANC isn't as important to me as it is to some others but I have to say that the Senns win in that department. 

Having said all that, the Senns are going back today.


----------



## jant71 (May 20, 2022)

You guys stop beating up those poor Senns!!!(says the guy who thought they seemed a tweak based off the CX plus and might not be quite enough of an improvement) They did drop the price some though so I did think they knew what they were giving us. Fair on the price. They still need to get better on the design, fit, ergonomics. We have been through this for years especially with their sports stuff and earbuds. Many nice shapes and 3D printing out there now yet the boxy design is what they are going with. Odd shapes, stiff no flex parts, chunky volume control modules, pinching designs, and other design miscues they have launched upon us. I mean look at this example....




...and that is isn't even close to their first behind the neck design.


----------



## clerkpalmer

Someone returned their EX for battery drain being off balance? Mine are running 12 percent difference. I’m not really inclined to care but doesn’t anyone think otherwise?


----------



## jant71

clerkpalmer said:


> Someone returned their EX for battery drain being off balance? Mine are running 12 percent difference. I’m not really inclined to care but doesn’t anyone think otherwise?


Anyone tried taking the other side than one usually grabs out first and see if it makes any difference. Reading the site and doc sheet actually makes no mention of the EX having independent connection. Perhaps they are still doing master/slave swap after a certain percentage.


----------



## clerkpalmer

jant71 said:


> Anyone tried taking the other side than one usually grabs out first and see if it makes any difference. Reading the site and doc sheet actually makes no mention of the EX having independent connection. Perhaps they are still doing master/slave swap after a certain percentage.


Interesting theory. I always grab the left first. And that’s the one thats low. I’ll try a swap.


----------



## clerkpalmer

Does anyone who uses the iPhone volume limiter notice that dynamic range seems to be reduced? I can’t tell if it’s just reducing volume but the music seems a bit flat. I keep mine set at 80 decibels fwiw.


----------



## erockg

Trager said:


> I think you might be making the case for me to return both MTW4 and EX and get a set of FoKus instead. I used my CL2 with the bluetooth cable as my wireless set for several years, and passive isolation was just fine. I’ve been jumping on the ANC bandwagon just because curious, mostly.


My top three right now for sound are the FoKus, EX and Astell & Kern.  1 and 3 have no ANC.  EX ANC is weaker than the MTW3.  That said, if you're only looking for the best sound with zero frills, the FoKus and IMO the Astell & Kern are really well done.


----------



## erockg

tonyfiore75 said:


> Sooooo... I decided try the B&O Beoplay EX since so many of you have been hyping them up. I wanted to compare them against the Senn MTW 3. The Senns will be going back and I'm keeping the EX. The question is why?
> 
> 1) The EX just fits way better. I seem to get a better seal with the EX (tried many tips). I found myself trying to push the Senns deeper into my ear canals regularly. I think this is just a design thing and the actual shape of my ears. The Senns are more fatiguing for my ears.
> 
> ...


Completely agree and I am now boxing up my MTW3!!!


----------



## erockg

clerkpalmer said:


> Someone returned their EX for battery drain being off balance? Mine are running 12 percent difference. I’m not really inclined to care but doesn’t anyone think otherwise?


I haven't had this issue yet.  Still have the issue with the left bud not power on when I take it out, but I now do a little shake to make sure it does.  The buds, not my body.  Seems to work fine now.  I really do enjoy them.


----------



## jant71

erockg said:


> Still have the issue when I take it out, but I now do a little shake to make sure it does.  Seems to work fine now.


----------



## erockg

dj24 said:


> Folks who've had both the FoKus Pro and the AZ60- which one has the best overall call quality (including zoom & other VOIPs)?


AZ60 by a mile.


----------



## jant71

erockg said:


> AZ60 by a mile.


I know what you thinking. A&K - take out the DAC, take the Fokus drivers, then put them in the AZ60. Sorry I don't think you can fit the AZ60 mics and the A&K chip in the Fokus Pro. Maybe you can though. Keep us updated on your progress.


----------



## erockg

jant71 said:


> I know what you thinking. A&K - take out the DAC, take the Fokus drivers, then put them in the AZ60. Sorry I don't think you can fit the AZ60 mics and the A&K chip in the Fokus Pro. Maybe you can though. Keep us updated on your progress.


Whelp, this is why we have 6+ tws options!


----------



## jant71

I want to know why nobody is going the old JVC route for TWS...



Not even JVC. The driver out in front leaves room in the housing which if used wisely can lead to good things.


----------



## Not so fat head

gandalftomte said:


> Thanks!
> My hopes are high, lots of people seem to really like the AZ60.
> 
> What mostly has been holding be back from buying any TWS for a long time has been the inability to listen to them before buying, and most shops here in Sweden don't allow TWS returns at all, so you are stuck with what you buy.
> ...


Wow.  Contrast that to a guy on here stating he has bought and returned at least 3 dozen (36) TWS headphones at Amazon USA…
No wonder Amazon stocks down 50% from its peak..
I’d imagine a policy change soon..
😜


----------



## BooleanBones

tonyfiore75 said:


> Sooooo... I decided try the B&O Beoplay EX since so many of you have been hyping them up. I wanted to compare them against the Senn MTW 3. The Senns will be going back and I'm keeping the EX. The question is why?
> 
> 1) The EX just fits way better. I seem to get a better seal with the EX (tried many tips). I found myself trying to push the Senns deeper into my ear canals regularly. I think this is just a design thing and the actual shape of my ears. The Senns are more fatiguing for my ears.
> 
> ...


I also have a bit of a man crush on the ability to easily reach up and pull them out of my ear using my claws without hitting something via touch sensor.


----------



## dweaver

LOL, I put my FIIO UTWS5/FH5 in my jacket today, I like my TWS but in the end I keep going to that combo because they sounds SOOOO good in comparison the any of my TWS. I think my TWS purchases are over until Black Friday / Boxing Day this year. Then if there is a great price on something I might nibble.

Still waiting for my Elite 7 refund and then maybe buy something OTHER than more headphones for a change...


----------



## maor26

erockg said:


> Whelp, this is why we have* 6+ tws options*!


Which ones have you decided to keep?(at least for now haha)


----------



## jant71 (May 20, 2022)

The Kenwood seems pretty decent...


Has 4 mics per side it seems and is both touch and button to do all the functions. Has ANC, ambient, quick ambient, low latency mode, on board Bass/Clear/Normal sound modes, mic mute, etc. The mic/ANC tests(@6:00 mark) seems like they are pretty good in those areas. Also showed the case has room for longer tips as he tried the Final E on them.


----------



## erockg

maor26 said:


> Which ones have you decided to keep?(at least for now haha)


I think I posted a pic within the last week or so


----------



## B7RS4

First time posting on headfi, got AZ60 for two months and FW1000T for a day, thought I would like to share some impressions here. I always want to try out JVC/Victor wood diaphgram so I got a pair of these second hand despite not really need an upgrade. Since none of my phones support aptx adaptive so AZ60 would be in ldac best effort and FW1000T would be in aptx:

IMO AZ60 is overall better in "sound quality", they are more transparent, has better instrument separation, have more "resolution" (I don't like this word much but I guess there isn't a better way to describe it), has tighter and punchier bass. If I use my genelec 8030c as a reference point, they have a much more neutral sound than the FW1000T.

The FW1000T has a better "sound stage" (albeit imo not really, everything just sound slightly further from the listening position), a more relaxed sound. There are really a lot of coloring in these, vocal sounds very smooth and warm. Also mid bass seemed to have been bumped somewhat. They actually sound a bit like my unmodded yamaha yh-100 aka "relaxed vintage analog" sound lol. 

In terms of ANC and mic quality, I haven't tested the JVC/Victor too much but AZ60 is pretty good, the ANC is much better than my aonic 50 (not like that is a high bar though),  and call quality is pretty much as good as bluetooth gonna get.


----------



## dyh

erockg said:


> Following up here.  These things are awesome.  The soundstage is excellent, detailed, wide and powerful.  Still going back and forth with my collection and comparing and contrasting as to where they stand.  They _do_ have multi-pairing.  Didn't know that.  Didn't see it listed anywhere.  Wish they had a better EQ in the app but the bass emphasis mode setting is pretty damn good.  If you're willing to pay the price, I'd definitely check these out.  A lot of you guys know more about this stuff than me, but I really hear a difference with Knowles BAs and the DAC they're using in these.  Honestly too, you don't need ANC.  Passive isolation is great.  Also, similar to how the Noble Fokus Pro charge a premium for their driver setup, with the A&K you are paying a big price for the better Knowles BA and their DAC.  The case could be smaller (it's a tad bigger than the MTW3 case).  The buds seem big when you look at them in photos, but fit really well.  I'd say like the XM4 as far as how they stick out, but slide in and secure much better.  Good stuff here.  I'm truly enjoying them.


Did you ever re-purchase the Noble FoKus Pros, and if so, how do you think the A&Ks compare to the FoKus Pros?

I've been really preoccupied with something serious that has went down, but I received my FoKus Pros, and I dig the sound a lot. In particular, the 2nd part of Tipper's Vection sounds pretty badass with a good EQ setting, and the volume turned up: 

I like hearing all the granular details.

Regarding 3rd party aftermarket Earphone Tips, the FoKus Pro nozzles with the Medium Stock Tips do make my ears itch uncomfortably after awhile. I tried all the Stock Tips, and it seems like the Medium Single Flange Tips are the best for me, but I might have to try the Large Double Flange Tips again. Hopefully I'll get used to them, but I looked up some Tip recommendations for the FoKus Pros, and found the list below:

1. AZLA SednaEarfit
2. SpinFit CP155 & 145
3. Acoustune AET08

Any other 3rd party aftermarket Earphone Tip recommendations for  the Noble FoKus Pros, or thoughts on which Tips are the best?

Thanks


----------



## VICosPhi

Certified refurbished Sony Linkbuds  with 2 years warranty on eBay USA for $99

https://www.ebay.com/itm/3139392927...customid=db7c7a2cd8b711ec95fe7eba4bb8dbe80INT


----------



## helmutcheese (May 21, 2022)

*^^

"*Any other 3rd party aftermarket Earphone Tip recommendations for the Noble FoKus Pros, or thoughts on which Tips are the best?

Thanks"

Final Audio Black+Black/Red Silicone Type E​






Not tried yet but they arrive later today (someone here REC's them), I use SpinFits and AZLA range normally as I need at least 14mm to fit my large canals, but it may be an issue for me as *XL (labeled as LL) are 13.5mm).*

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B081FJVKZ6/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&th=1


----------



## J_3000 (May 21, 2022)

Does anyone have real world experience with MTW3 and the 1more EVO?

I have tried some TWS in the past few years and eventually settled with the Soundcore LP3’s based on overall experience and price. I was able to get a good stable fit with them and after heavy EQing pretty good soundstage. It’s a capable set, but quite big. Worth noting that I bought them before the Technics AZ60’s was out, which probably would have been my choice, but didn’t see it worth of an upgrade.

I think its time to get a second pair. I have been watching the reviews, but still not sure is the MTW3’s worth the double price. Although as OnePlus 10 Pro/ Windows laptop user the AptX codec would be a bonus.

I might have to order both of them and return one, but I would prefer not to.

EDIT: Forgot to mention what bothers me with the LP3's. They dont seat properly sometimes in to the case, meaning they wont disconnect and start charging. This is due to the fins moving a bit. Its annoying and a small design flaw by them.


----------



## helmutcheese (May 21, 2022)

MTW3 will arrive today, skipping EVO as the new Pistonbuds Pro have same poor controls (you cannot change much or add single tap) and ANC not much good but they sounded ok after EQ so did then older 1More ANC buds from years ago.


----------



## J_3000

Im wondering will 1more add more controls to their app later?


----------



## helmutcheese (May 21, 2022)

They could and should, but I could not wait that long as the 30 days would be up for the return and as I said other aspects of them were not to my liking, so I see no real changes in the EVO and the addition of LDAC is only needed if listening to Hi-Res and it eats battery, has poor range but nice to have but not in place of aptX Adaptive.


----------



## subguy812 (May 21, 2022)

subguy812 said:


> Posted this in another thread but felt it might be relevant here;
> 
> Sennheiser contacted me and I reviewed the 1st generation MTW. The MTW have, IMO, always had the best sound quality of the upper end TW available. The signature has always checked my box. Enter the TW2, continued on in the tradition and delivered the goods on sound quality, loved the app and the fit.
> 
> ...



I have had an evening with the B&O EX. I still have the TW3 with me but will definitely be returning the TW3. I posted the long post above and am surprised I am shifting the from the TW3, as I have been a follower since the OG TW. If it wasn't for my fit issues I probably never would have tried others as I have always felt the Sennheiser was the pinnacle of sq in the TW's. Not comparing anything else, only sq.

The one thing really going against the EX is the price tag, it is difficult to not allow buyer's remorse to creep into your thoughts. I have no remorse, so my thoughts are based on the product alone.

From the case to the buds themselves, it is a premium product. I don't EQ, and I will say the out of box sound is captivating. Know that they only include one size of Comply, if you are a Comply user, I am not.

Feel free to ask any questions as a comparison to the TW3. The only question I can't answer is whether it is worth the price, or the difference in price between the TW3. That is totally subjective.


----------



## BigZ12

A little collective brainwashing in here now? MTW3 was soo good at first, but now everyone's hating them, and returning en mass  

I can't return them, but will sell them secondhand if the Spinfit CP1025 doesn't help me with the fit and SQ. Flexifit is comfortable and secure, but "ruins" the sound and ANC.
I need short tips. Normal ones gives me trouble as earlier stated. Any other suggestions than CP1025?


----------



## Tenlow

BigZ12 said:


> A little collective brainwashing in here now? MTW3 was soo good at first, but now everyone's hating them, and returning en mass
> 
> I can't return them, but will sell them secondhand if the Spinfit CP1025 doesn't help me with the fit and SQ. Flexifit is comfortable and secure, but "ruins" the sound and ANC.
> I need short tips. Normal ones gives me trouble as earlier stated. Any other suggestions than CP1025?


I'm still loving them  Haven't sold them yet and won't sell them anytime soon.


----------



## Sam L

Can someone explain to me why I'm buying the Sony linkbuds s?


----------



## jant71 (May 21, 2022)

Sam L said:


> Can someone explain to me why I'm buying the Sony linkbuds s?


GAS  -  Gear Acquisition Syndrome.


----------



## darveniza

subguy812 said:


> I have had an evening with the B&O EX. I still have the TW3 with me but will definitely be returning the TW3. I posted the long post above and am surprised I am shifting the from the TW3, as I have been a follower since the OG TW. If it wasn't for my fit issues I probably never would have tried others as I have always felt the Sennheiser was the pinnacle of sq in the TW's. Not comparing anything else, only sq.
> 
> The one thing really going against the EX is the price tag, it is difficult to not allow buyer's remorse to creep into your thoughts. I have no remorse, so my thoughts are based on the product alone.
> 
> ...


My biggest issue with the B&O is the standby state, if I leave them on my desk for a week unused they will not hold charge. Have noticed this on my MTW2 previously not sure if it's something erratic or something else


----------



## erockg

BigZ12 said:


> A little collective brainwashing in here now? MTW3 was soo good at first, but now everyone's hating them, and returning en mass
> 
> I can't return them, but will sell them secondhand if the Spinfit CP1025 doesn't help me with the fit and SQ. Flexifit is comfortable and secure, but "ruins" the sound and ANC.
> I need short tips. Normal ones gives me trouble as earlier stated. Any other suggestions than CP1025?


Devialet tips work flawlessly for me.  But yes, after a week of comparing and contrasting with my other sets, I'm leaning towards sending them back.


----------



## BigZ12

erockg said:


> Devialet tips work flawlessly for me.  But yes, after a week of comparing and contrasting with my other sets, I'm leaning towards sending them back.


Thanks for the tip, but I sold my Devialets with unused tips. (I had to use Comply Foam due to pops/clicks in the damned left ear...)


----------



## erockg

darveniza said:


> My biggest issue with the B&O is the standby state, if I leave them on my desk for a week unused they will not hold charge. Have noticed this on my MTW2 previously not sure if it's something erratic or something else


I'm having the same issues.  Not sure what's up.  If it's a multi-pair issue causing drain.  Doesn't happen all the time.  Good thing I truly love the sound.


----------



## erockg (May 21, 2022)

darveniza said:


> My biggest issue with the B&O is the standby state, if I leave them on my desk for a week unused they will not hold charge. Have noticed this on my MTW2 previously not sure if it's something erratic or something else


I'm having the same issues.  Not sure what's up.  If it's a multi-pair issue causing drain.  Doesn't happen all the time.  Good thing I truly love the sound.


BigZ12 said:


> Thanks for the tip, but I sold my Devialets with unused tips. (I had to use Comply Foam due to pops/clicks in the damned left ear...)


Not that you will, but I think you can buy them separately.  They were giving away free upgraded tips to those who owned the Gemini.  Might be worth trying to get for your tip stash  https://www.devialet.com/en-pt/true-wireless-earbuds/new-eartips-offer/gemini-eartips-large/  Another link: new-eartips-offer


----------



## dweaver

Has anyone tried the ATH-CKS50TW? I know they have good battery life but how are they in the sound department and over all functionality?

They seem reasonably priced.


----------



## bladefd (May 21, 2022)

subguy812 said:


> I have had an evening with the B&O EX. I still have the TW3 with me but will definitely be returning the TW3. I posted the long post above and am surprised I am shifting the from the TW3, as I have been a follower since the OG TW. If it wasn't for my fit issues I probably never would have tried others as I have always felt the Sennheiser was the pinnacle of sq in the TW's. Not comparing anything else, only sq.
> 
> The one thing really going against the EX is the price tag, it is difficult to not allow buyer's remorse to creep into your thoughts. I have no remorse, so my thoughts are based on the product alone.
> 
> ...


EX seem great, but I just can't get past the price tag. I don't think most people can afford it. I don't even bother to consider or think about the ex because I will never have that much money sitting around to spend on tws anyways. It's like chasing a Rolls-Royce. Wonderful car but if you just can't afford it, you don't even consider or think of it. Of course a Rolls-Royce is going to be much much better than a Honda accord, but you just can't afford it no matter what lol. You have to learn to love the accord.


----------



## stacey (May 21, 2022)

jant71 said:


> I know what you thinking. A&K - take out the DAC, take the Fokus drivers, then put them in the AZ60. Sorry I don't think you can fit the AZ60 mics and the A&K chip in the Fokus Pro. Maybe you can though. Keep us updated on your progress.



Or you could just get the B&O EX. The EX solves the poor call quality of the A&K, has a larger driver, and has IPX 57. The ANC is an afterthought but it doesn’t suffer a SQ hit like the XM4 does. I take these TWS everywhere.

A&K the SQ is great, and passive noise isolation works extremely well. With the right tips they’re just as effective as some earplugs in reducing background noise. In comparison the PNI of the EX is trash, even after rolling some spinfits (I used the shallower CP360) 


The biggest demerit of the EX is price. But they do a lot of things right. The A&K is a 1.5 trick pony, and if you buy direct from A&K you only get a 14 day return window.


----------



## jant71

Is the EX gonna be updated for LE?? Doesn't seem to be Snapdragon Sound capable nor will it do Loseless. With the new standard coming and more using the 4332DAC beside the A&K like the FiiO coming, the EX is expensive to me as well since I don't think it will have staying power. Lucky with China shutdowns and supply chain stuff which might help the EX stay up top for longer than they would have if things were dropping as fast as they would be. $400 is a lot unless you are sticking with BT classic and your phone for a while.


----------



## ElKabong

dweaver said:


> Has anyone tried the ATH-CKS50TW? I know they have good battery life but how are they in the sound department and over all functionality?
> 
> They seem reasonably priced.


I bought a pair of these myself at a good price, paired with Fiio M11 & Shanling M3X primarily. The app is pretty useful, all functions are done by the left and right buttons on the buds. As far as the sound, it's all subjective to the individual user. Depending on the app you use for playback, you can eq til you find what suits you.
 I use poweramp mainly. I am no audiophile by any stretch, i do like the sound i get from these buds, good separation, good clarity.
Bottom line for me is that i like them.


----------



## erockg

stacey said:


> Or you could just get the B&O EX. The EX solves the poor call quality of the A&K, has a larger driver, and has IPX 57. The ANC is an afterthought but it doesn’t suffer a SQ hit like the XM4 does. I take these TWS everywhere.
> 
> A&K the SQ is great, and passive noise isolation works extremely well. With the right tips they’re just as effective as some earplugs in reducing background noise. In comparison the PNI of the EX is trash, even after rolling some spinfits (I used the shallower CP360)
> 
> ...


Odd because I used my AKs on calls and Zooms yesterday with zero issues.  Everyone said my voice sounded clear and great.  I do think they both sound exceptionally good.  One is a Knowles BA and I'm guessing the EX is just a dynamic driver.  The AK are more powerful for sure, but the EX are no slouch.  Both incredible buds and great to see how far these companies have come.  AK did a great job even if it's their first try.  I haven't had one bug using them with my iPhone and computer.  Famous last words!


----------



## Sam L

jant71 said:


> GAC  -  Gear Acquisition Syndrome.


Got it. Thx. Memory was slipping for a minute there.


----------



## Sam L

What's in my little "man bag" today, walking outside on a gorgeous California day.









If I'm being completely honest, these $21 iems sound every bit as good as the eq'd Sony and the stock az60.


----------



## jant71 (May 21, 2022)

ElKabong said:


> I bought a pair of these myself at a good price, paired with Fiio M11 & Shanling M3X primarily. The app is pretty useful, all functions are done by the left and right buttons on the buds. As far as the sound, it's all subjective to the individual user. Depending on the app you use for playback, you can eq til you find what suits you.
> I use poweramp mainly. I am no audiophile by any stretch, i do like the sound i get from these buds, good separation, good clarity.
> Bottom line for me is that i like them.


Hmmm, they don't sound half bad! 




erockg said:


> Odd because I used my AKs on calls and Zooms yesterday with zero issues.  Everyone said my voice sounded clear and great.  I do think they both sound exceptionally good.  One is a Knowles BA and I'm guessing the EX is just a dynamic driver.  The AK are more powerful for sure, but the EX are no slouch.  Both incredible buds and great to see how far these companies have come.  AK did a great job even if it's their first try.  I haven't had one bug using them with my iPhone and computer.  Famous last words!


That call quality impression started with Digital Trends review. Seems like they were using a Pixel 5 phone so that may contribute...

"Unfortunately, A&K has some work left to do to bring the UW100 up to par with its competitors when it comes to phone calls and other voice applications. Ambient mode is incompatible with voice calling, so you can’t hear an unmuffled version of your own voice. But the bigger problem is the quality of the voice pickup. During an outdoor recording session, I found a lot of compression and distortion crept in, and at times my voice sounded distant — like I was a few feet from the mics, not mere inches. I’ve gotten much better results from much cheaper wireless earbuds like the $80 Jabra Elite 3.

With two mics per earbud — the same as most products at this price — I suspect the problem stems from the background noise cancellation settings that A&K has used. When these algorithms are overly aggressive, they can adversely affect voice quality as they attempt to neutralize other sounds."


----------



## jant71

Free Byrd review...
https://www.qucox.com/beyerdynamic-free-byrd-review/

Fly little byrd fly!


----------



## erockg

jant71 said:


> Hmmm, they don't sound half bad!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Granted, I did not try them outdoors.  I don't usually walk outside on the phone.  I saw that review, but usually have to try them out myself.  DT is like Flossy to me


----------



## erockg

Sam L said:


> Got it. Thx. Memory was slipping for a minute there.


Typo in there.  He does mean _GAS_.  I have a lot all the time.


----------



## jant71

erockg said:


> Typo in there.  He does mean _GAS_.  I have a lot all the time.



Fixed. Wasn't paying attention. Must have got confused while I was watching TV.


----------



## subguy812 (May 21, 2022)

BigZ12 said:


> A little collective brainwashing in here now? MTW3 was soo good at first, but now everyone's hating them, and returning en mass
> 
> I can't return them, but will sell them secondhand if the Spinfit CP1025 doesn't help me with the fit and SQ. Flexifit is comfortable and secure, but "ruins" the sound and ANC.
> I need short tips. Normal ones gives me trouble as earlier stated. Any other suggestions than CP1025?


No collective brainwashing here, but nice try. I have no skin in anyone's game nor do I give a crap what you buy. I highlighted my fit issues on the MTW3 thread the day I received them. I experimented and would have kept my TW2 but I had already sold them to my brother.

There were two or three others I wanted to try but the B&O EX were the first and they are clearly keepers.

Enjoy whatever works for you. The TW3 didn't work for me but the OG and TW2 did.


----------



## erockg

subguy812 said:


> No collective brainwashing here, but nice try. I higlighted my fit issues on the MTW3 thread the day I received them. I experimented and would have kept my TW2 but I had already sold them to my brother.
> 
> There were two or three others I wanted to try but the B&O EX were the first and they are clearly keepers.


See, I thought the MTW3 fit excellent.  My only issue was sound.  EX are not far, but definitely superior.  Love them!  If I didn't have the EX and the AK already, I'd probably be very happy with the Sennies.  Sadly, this game of TWS chess never ends.  Linkbuds S incoming!  UGH.  @jant71, should I print my return label ahead of time?


----------



## subguy812 (May 21, 2022)

erockg said:


> See, I thought the MTW3 fit excellent.  My only issue was sound.  EX are not far, but definitely superior.  Love them!  If I didn't have the EX and the AK already, I'd probably be very happy with the Sennies.  Sadly, this game of TWS chess never ends.  Linkbuds S incoming!  UGH.  @jant71, should I print my return label ahead of time?


Yes fit and sound are subjective. All of this hobby is. If someone likes their purchase it shouldn't matter what someone else thinks. Again, all of this is subjective. The fit would have been great, but I couldn't achieve a seal, which is critical.

But this game is only 400 max as opposed to my usual game which is now over 6K. Ridiculous.


----------



## jant71 (May 21, 2022)

erockg said:


> See, I thought the MTW3 fit excellent.  My only issue was sound.  EX are not far, but definitely superior.  Love them!  If I didn't have the EX and the AK already, I'd probably be very happy with the Sennies.  Sadly, this game of TWS chess never ends.  Linkbuds S incoming!  UGH.  @jant71, should I print my return label ahead of time?


Supposedly a notch below the XM4 for SQ and ANC. More balanced though on the signature is what I read. Early and few impressions but how good is the ANC and how important is that? Might be worth the price so you get what you pay for. Of course they will drop the price like $30 pretty soon. My impression is a you'll like the size and fit more than the Senn but not the sound. if the ANC and auto adjusting ANC/ambient works for you I see a possible return and repurchase after a price drop or two and perhaps a good firmware update.


----------



## stacey

erockg said:


> Odd because I used my AKs on calls and Zooms yesterday with zero issues.  Everyone said my voice sounded clear and great.  I do think they both sound exceptionally good.  One is a Knowles BA and I'm guessing the EX is just a dynamic driver.  The AK are more powerful for sure, but the EX are no slouch.  Both incredible buds and great to see how far these companies have come.  AK did a great job even if it's their first try.  I haven't had one bug using them with my iPhone and computer.  Famous last words!


The A&K sound great on an iPhone. And the bigger problem is not that they have terrible mics, but I ran into issues in a setting that isn’t necessarily quiet.I had no issues in an office setting, but in a park with a lot of crowd noise , a train , or in a truck they struggle. 

That’s said, I can’t be bother to part with them, they’re that good.


----------



## C_Lindbergh (May 21, 2022)

I'm still loving my MTW3, personally I think its a joke that you can't customize touch controls or having the music pause when enabling ambient mode on the EX. Especially since they cost much more than the MTW3.

I will be prob getting the IE600 + UTWS5 in the near future for when I want maximum portable sound quality anyways. As of now I mostly use the MTW3 when I actually want a great pair of TWS, which means stuff like fit, software features and ANC is very important.

Sennheiser will also prob give plenty of software updates to the MTW3 for future refinements/features, whilst I doubt the EX will see much attention to new software features.


----------



## erockg

subguy812 said:


> Yes fit and sound are subjective. All of this hobby is. If someone likes their purchase it shouldn't matter what someone else thinks. Again, all of this is subjective. The fit would have been great, but I couldn't achieve a seal, which is critical.
> 
> But this game is only 400 max as opposed to my usual game which is now over 6K. Ridiculous.


100%.  If my wife knew the costs, I'd be in the doghouse.  This message will self destruct.


----------



## erockg

jant71 said:


> Supposedly a notch below the XM4 for SQ and ANC. More balanced though on the signature is what I read. Early and few impressions but how good is the ANC and how important is that? Might be worth the price so you get what you pay for. Of course they will drop the price like $30 pretty soon. My impression is a you'll like the size and fit more than the Senn but not the sound. if the ANC and auto adjusting ANC/ambient works for you I see a possible return and repurchase after a price drop or two and perhaps a good firmware update.


Totally agree.  I'll report back soon after I get them.  I did pick up the new over ears XM5 and I must say, I might be a minority, but I really like them better than the 4.  Got them for a plane trip next week.  Wore them about 5 hours yesterday.  Not a TWS, so I'll stop here.


----------



## Tenlow

C_Lindbergh said:


> Sennheiser will also prob give plenty of software updates to the MTW3 for future refinements/features, whilst I doubt the EX will see much attention to new software features.


Probably true, yes. However, let's not forget that B&O added multipoint bluetooth to the EQ buds many months after their release. So you never know but Sennheiser will likely update the firmware many more times still (as they also should). The MTW3 are a fantastic pair of TWS but they still need some refinements and the addition of multipoint as well.


----------



## subguy812 (May 21, 2022)

C_Lindbergh said:


> I'm still loving my MTW3, personally I think its a joke that you can't customize touch controls or having the music pause when enabling ambient mode on the EX. Especially since they cost much more than the MTW3.
> 
> I will be prob getting the IE600 + UTWS5 in the near future for when I want maximum portable sound quality anyways. As of now I mostly use the MTW3 when I actually want a great pair of TWS, which means stuff like fit, software features and ANC is very important.
> 
> Sennheiser will also prob give plenty of software updates to the MTW3 for future refinements/features, whilst I doubt the EX will see much attention to new software features.


Totally agree, not being able to customize touch controls is a joke. After being a Senn guy, I have had to play the tutorial a couple of times to learn the controls.


----------



## C_Lindbergh

Tenlow said:


> Probably true, yes. However, let's not forget that B&O added multipoint bluetooth to the EQ buds many months after their release. So you never know but Sennheiser will likely update the firmware many more times still (as they also should). The MTW3 are a fantastic pair of TWS but they still need some refinements and the addition of multipoint as well.


Yeah hopefully they'll add multipoint soon, they will have another huge advantage with the connetion manager in the app too


----------



## subguy812 (May 21, 2022)

I think it is important to realize that what may be a deal breaker feature for one is not another. We all have individual uses.

I like ANC but it isn't my first priority. I am more of a Sound Quality person.


----------



## samandhi

Sam L said:


> What's in my little "man bag" today, walking outside on a gorgeous California day.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


For me, those CRA were a total shocker for the money (I got mine on sale for $13). Are they perfect? No, but I would put them up against a lot of $200-$300 IEMs on most things.... They remind me of yesteryear; the Xioami Piston II, that were also hyped here on Head-Fi, and for good reason IMHO. I still have two sets of those... 

How do they compare wirelessly to wired?


----------



## logiatype

samandhi said:


> For me, those CRA were a total shocker for the money (I got mine on sale for $13). Are they perfect? No, but I would put them up against a lot of $200-$300 IEMs on most things.... They remind me of yesteryear; the Xioami Piston II, that were also hyped here on Head-Fi, and for good reason IMHO. I still have two sets of those...
> 
> How do they compare wirelessly to wired?


We’re all paying for tuning…


----------



## samandhi

logiatype said:


> We’re all paying for tuning…


For sure!


----------



## helmutcheese

C_Lindbergh said:


> Yeah hopefully they'll add multipoint soon, they will have *another huge advantage with the connetion manager in the app too*



Very handy as I connected my new MTW3's to my PC+ aptX Adaptive dongle and then used the App on my phone to see what it was doing.

This is the first I can actually prove it is working as intended in aptX Adaptive mode as the RED LED could be anything they claim it is.


----------



## maor26

helmutcheese said:


> Very handy as I connected my new MTW3's to my PC+ aptX Adaptive dongle and then used the App on my phone to see what it was doing.
> 
> This is the first I can actually prove it is working as intended in aptX Adaptive mode as the RED LED could be anything they claim it is.


Which dongle are you using?


----------



## helmutcheese (May 21, 2022)

What's with the MTW3 Apps not showing both Independent Right and Left Earbuds battery levels and no Case battery level even though the user manual states it does?


----------



## helmutcheese (May 21, 2022)

@ *maor26:* I am using this dongle though it is 16/48 (24/96 new model ordered).


----------



## stacey

Now which of my TWS will get updated first, the A&K or the B&O EX? Most of my complaints (call quality) with the A&K would be solved by an firmware upgrade


----------



## Tenlow

helmutcheese said:


> What's with the MTW3 Apps not showing both Independent Right and Left Earbuds battery levels and no Case battery level even though the user manual states it does?


Jep, don't know. I've even seen a picture of it on the Sennheiser website where the case battery level is to be seen. Would be nice to have these things if they mention then and even show them to us...


----------



## bladefd

C_Lindbergh said:


> I'm still loving my MTW3, personally I think its a joke that you can't customize touch controls or having the music pause when enabling ambient mode on the EX. Especially since they cost much more than the MTW3.
> 
> I will be prob getting the IE600 + UTWS5 in the near future for when I want maximum portable sound quality anyways. As of now I mostly use the MTW3 when I actually want a great pair of TWS, which means stuff like fit, software features and ANC is very important.
> 
> Sennheiser will also prob give plenty of software updates to the MTW3 for future refinements/features, whilst I doubt the EX will see much attention to new software features.


I feel like B&O moves on from product to product very fast so they don't seem to give proper attention to their previous products.


----------



## bladefd

helmutcheese said:


> @ *maor26:* I am using this dongle though it is 16/48 (24/96 new model ordered).


Where did you buy it? Does tws microphone work through it?


----------



## helmutcheese

I got it on Ebay UK from UK seller, Amazon have them now also (try and get from your country not China so AliExpress etc as of long shipping) and no MIC does not work AFAIR and I know for a fact media controls do not work but I will try again later.


----------



## tiagopinto

gandalftomte said:


> Thanks!
> My hopes are high, lots of people seem to really like the AZ60.
> 
> What mostly has been holding be back from buying any TWS for a long time has been the inability to listen to them before buying, and most shops here in Sweden don't allow TWS returns at all, so you are stuck with what you buy.
> ...



Good post.

I agree with most. I also want an upgrade in sound but cannot try any new stuff out. None of my close friends are into higher end TWS. Some of them like IEMs or regular headphones. I’ve tried most. 

I believe that before BTLE/LC3 I will not want to invest more than 250/300$ in TWS. And that’s already stretching it. I own the CA MT. I like the sound implementation, they respond well to EQ although I rarely use it. Transparency is meh, no ANC, battery is good enough. But of course I’d like better. I’ve tried a few that are out there like Sony XMs, B&O E3s, MTW2 but I guess none impressed me in order to cost 300$ or more. Sony’s are less but I don’t like the sound signature. 

From what I’ve been reading and seeing, I’m sure I’d like the GT220 (lack of features) or the Fokus Pros (lack of features and too expensive) or the EX (too expensive) or the PI7 (terrible battery and too expensive). And now the A&K... but being more sensible I would definitely consider the AZ60 or the MTW3.

I’m torn between investing in better TWS now (smaller investment) or save and go for better IEMs (own the Rai Solo) and an adapter (bigger investment but better wired sound and still useful for mobile listening) and keep the MT (for the bike, beach or just practicality)

So it’s basically: keep the Rai Solo/THX Onyx, sell the MT, get MTW3 (spend 250$) or sell the Rai Solo, sell the MT, get Variations/DK-3001 Pro/ER4XR (keeping the Onyx), get MTW3 (spend 550$) or sell the Rai Solo, sell the MT, get Advar/Vulkan/ie600 (keeping the Onyx), get TW2 (spend 700$) or any other combination of the previous options, hehe, I know, undecided person. But that’s what I get on a contained budget and wanting the best sound... and evaluating too much. Budget is a decider, obviously. Just torn but continuing to enjoy music daily.


----------



## tiagopinto

Trager said:


> So I tried both while driving tonight… the EX were okay, they’re definitely better for music but the ANC is strictly so-so. The MTW3 has really damn good ANC. I even tried putting the top down and the MTW3 handled wind noise incredibly well — this is exactly the test that made me give up on the AZ60s. I feel like if the MTW3 had a better EQ setup, I could get them to really work for me for music… but as it stands, they’re at least fantastic for podcasts during my commute. Freeway driving, top down, I had the volume at maybe 30% and it was clear as a bell. Very impressive.



You were testing TWS, with or without ANC, while driving? Or while being driven?


----------



## helmutcheese

Does it matter (I know what you're getting at), deaf peeps can drive legally.


----------



## samandhi

tiagopinto said:


> Good post.
> 
> I agree with most. I also want an upgrade in sound but cannot try any new stuff out. None of my close friends are into higher end TWS. Some of them like IEMs or regular headphones. I’ve tried most.
> 
> ...


Knowing your very active lifestyle, I would probably go for some good IEMs and a BT adapter. This gives you the option to listen no matter where you are (out, or in home). Any of the newer planars are fantastic, from what I hear. I have the Timeless, but am trying to make the decision to get the Raptgo Hook-x or the Tinhifi P1 Max. If you are wanting any kind of noise cancellation, you won't want the Hook-X though, because they are open back (but I do hear they don't leak like you would think they do). The good news is that they are both around $200, and for another $100, you can have a good set for home, and some TWS (the UTWS5 has passthrough from what I hear) for out and about. I am also interested in the up-and-coming Vulkan from DUNU, but I will probably be waiting for a while to see some more talk about them. 

Just my opinion but TWS won't last as long as IEMs will, so I would get a good set of TWS (as a backup/compliment) once you have your main set secured (since you already have a good set of TWS). This is only the way I would see it, and your thoughts may be the total opposite from mine..


----------



## stacey

Personally I’d use TWS as a compliment to whatever IEMs you have at home. If you work out a lot, get excessive ear wax etc, I’d go for ones that are rated IP 57 or so like the EX is. That’s the motivating factor of me getting the EX despite just getting the A&K.


----------



## samandhi

stacey said:


> Personally I’d use TWS as a compliment to whatever IEMs you have at home. If you work out a lot, get excessive ear wax etc, I’d go for ones that are rated IP 57 or so like the EX is. That’s the motivating factor of me getting the EX despite just getting the A&K.


That was what I was getting at also, but I think he is wanting to upgrade his IEM also. So I thought, get the IEM and BT first, then get a set of pure TWS later as budget permits, that way he already has his IEM and the compliment for it (the IEM w/BT adapter)...


----------



## Blueshound24 (May 22, 2022)

I'm trying to find a decent TWS earbud, (not IEM), because I need some buds for situational awareness.

I have considered:  Samsung Galaxy Buds Live, SoundPEATS Air3, FIIL CC2, Sabbat x12 Ultra or Sabbat x12 Pro, etc.

I tried to find out what the difference is between the Sabbat x12 Pro vs Sabbat x12 Ultra, and couldn't find much. One article said the 'Pro' may not have Apt X? Anyone know the differences?


Any recommendations?
TIA

EDIT:  I am probably not interested in any apple products because I use Android and Windows.


----------



## LastFantasy

A New ANC Throne Appears?








I am interested in both products.  Especially since Live Free 2 includes LE Audio/LC3.


----------



## ibage

Alright, looking to snag a pair of wireless earbuds in the $150-200 range. Managed to not buy any new headphones for the past few years, and I feel out of the loop. Any suggestions?


----------



## Bhelpoori

LastFantasy said:


> A New ANC Throne Appears?
> 
> 
> 
> I am interested in both products.  Especially since Live Free 2 includes LE Audio/LC3.



An interesting way to measure and impart ANC efficiency as a single number but it simply doesn’t match my real world use on planes, cars, walking by noisy roads etc etc.

 I have used and own in real life Bose QC, APP and L3Pro…. And for sure the QC is by some distance the best followed by the APP and then some way behind the L3Pro.


----------



## helmutcheese (May 22, 2022)

Bose QC/XM4 are the best in my short time owning/using and most good reviewers, I know the Apple model gets a good name, but I do not own/like Apple products or the closed ecosystem so can only go by again good reviewers

That chart is BS *IMO*, the L3P ANC was near nonexistence for me, same for the NeoBuds Pro etc.


----------



## scubaphish

LastFantasy said:


> A New ANC Throne Appears?
> 
> 
> 
> I am interested in both products.  Especially since Live Free 2 includes LE Audio/LC3.



I don’t agree with this table either. I’ve found Devialet Gemini much better than the APP in my experience walking around and riding subways in NYC.


----------



## tiagopinto

helmutcheese said:


> Does it matter (I know what you're getting at), deaf peeps can drive legally.



Hey, I’m not judging. I was just surprised on how into the music (and distracted) you have to be to test headphones while driving. I was also worried about other people on the road. But to each his own.


----------



## helmutcheese

Less so than stoners/drunks or even mobile (cell) phone zombies behind the wheel but I get what you are saying but not sure if illegal here in UK/


----------



## tiagopinto

samandhi said:


> Knowing your very active lifestyle, I would probably go for some good IEMs and a BT adapter. This gives you the option to listen no matter where you are (out, or in home). Any of the newer planars are fantastic, from what I hear. I have the Timeless, but am trying to make the decision to get the Raptgo Hook-x or the Tinhifi P1 Max. If you are wanting any kind of noise cancellation, you won't want the Hook-X though, because they are open back (but I do hear they don't leak like you would think they do). The good news is that they are both around $200, and for another $100, you can have a good set for home, and some TWS (the UTWS5 has passthrough from what I hear) for out and about. I am also interested in the up-and-coming Vulkan from DUNU, but I will probably be waiting for a while to see some more talk about them.
> 
> Just my opinion but TWS won't last as long as IEMs will, so I would get a good set of TWS (as a backup/compliment) once you have your main set secured (since you already have a good set of TWS). This is only the way I would see it, and your thoughts may be the total opposite from mine..



I like how you read my mind. That’s where I’m at now. But these new exciting TWS keep popping up and teasing me.



stacey said:


> Personally I’d use TWS as a compliment to whatever IEMs you have at home. If you work out a lot, get excessive ear wax etc, I’d go for ones that are rated IP 57 or so like the EX is. That’s the motivating factor of me getting the EX despite just getting the A&K.



It’s almost never gym workout but a lot of bike riding alternated with a lot of going to the beach for bodyboarding. I also divide work time 70% IEM, 30% TWS. Since I got the CA MT I stopped using wired earbuds or my Bluebuds X on the street too. 



samandhi said:


> That was what I was getting at also, but I think he is wanting to upgrade his IEM also. So I thought, get the IEM and BT first, then get a set of pure TWS later as budget permits, that way he already has his IEM and the compliment for it (the IEM w/BT adapter)...



Again, that’s where I’m at. Get better IEMs, period. Either stay in the 300/400 range or try and go for the 600/700 range, probably in the models I referred to. 
Then sell the MT and upgrade my mobile setup now. Or... keep the MT, for now, and get a new TWS when lossless comes. This would maybe allow me to go for the higher tier in IEMs. 
Can’t have it all, indecisive person. But an adapter now could change the priorities.


----------



## jant71 (May 22, 2022)

Uh-Oh! We got trouble...for erockg's wallet. New Final flagship ZE8000...







Buuuuut, it won't be around till later this year so still time to put a little cash on the side here and there.


----------



## samandhi

helmutcheese said:


> Less so than stoners/drunks or even mobile (cell) phone zombies behind the wheel but I get what you are saying but not sure if illegal here in UK/


Here in the US it goes by state laws; alot like helmet laws here (some states there is none, in others you have to wear one). Some states it is illegal to have both of them in your ears; meaning you are allowed to have one in one ear. Other states there are no laws against having both of them in. The thought behind the laws that only allow one in is so that you can hear emergency vehicles when needed. To me it is a silly law (not on paper, only in practice) because you are allowed to crank your car stereo to as loud as you like it, thereby still nullifying the ability to hear your surroundings anyhow. 

I think the law regarding this is pretty obscure and not really enforced very much, but since I ride a motorcycle, I make it a point to know those laws just in case...


----------



## dweaver

jant71 said:


> Uh-Oh! We got trouble...for erockg's wallet. New Final flagship ZE8000...
> 
> 
> 
> Buuuuut, it won't be around till later this year so still time to put a little cash on the side here and there.


Those look god awful! Is that really the design with the big block on them?


----------



## jant71 (May 22, 2022)

dweaver said:


> Those look god awful! Is that really the design with the big block on them?


That is a super-dooper antenna on there. You can get your local TV broadcasts on this thing. Yep, supposed to be the "final" design. Only the prototype so far so perhaps they have a chance to "re-think" it but doubt it. Simple 3 compartment design. First has the driver alone then the middle has the battery and chips. Then the outer for antenna, mics, and touch sensors. I get the concept but, no, not done in an elegant way. But hey! You can use them as fidget spinners when you are bored right?


----------



## Bhelpoori

scubaphish said:


> I don’t agree with this table either. I’ve found Devialet Gemini much better than the APP in my experience walking around and riding subways in NYC.


And as a final engineering note here: ANC is incredibly hard to measure and test even with a ton of expensive kit, and even more difficult to compare between headphones. If you ever see measurements and results taken like this be very wary.


----------



## Not so fat head

jant71 said:


>





jant71 said:


> Uh-Oh! We got trouble...for erockg's wallet. New Final flagship ZE8000...
> 
> 
> 
> Buuuuut, it won't be around till later this year so still time to put a little cash on the side here and there.


Would lay down a bet, Final is going for pure audiophile sound….  Damn the torpedoes, full speed ahead…
Last thing this hobby needs, is another ear bud…. We must have 100 different models now!!!!


----------



## jant71 (May 22, 2022)

We need some of this for a TWS case... https://urbanista.com/en-us/collections/frontpage/products/los-angeles

We already have TWS with solar charge case but it is the sunlight only type and the Urbanista is indoor or outdoor lighting.




Ditch those cables and pads both!!


----------



## Sustenter

Hello,
I am looking for TWS iem without latence to watch videos, and with the best sound quality as possible (this criteria is secondary to latence though).
Is the 1more Piston Buds pro good enough for this purpose ? 
Thank you.


----------



## C_Lindbergh

Sustenter said:


> Hello,
> I am looking for TWS iem without latence to watch videos, and with the best sound quality as possible (this criteria is secondary to latence though).
> Is the 1more Piston Buds pro good enough for this purpose ?
> Thank you.



Your best bet is a device with APTX adaptive, for example the MTW3 or B&O EX (depending on your budget/needs).

Not sure if you're source would be a phone or PC/TV, but for the latter you'd need an Aptx Adaptive USB adapter from Aliexpress. When it comes to phones you should be fine even your phone doesn't support ATPX adaptive, unless we're talking about live videos ofc.


----------



## TK33 (May 22, 2022)

Blueshound24 said:


> I'm trying to find a decent TWS earbud, (not IEM), because I need some buds for situational awareness.
> 
> I have considered:  Samsung Galaxy Buds Live, SoundPEATS Air3, FIIL CC2, Sabbat x12 Ultra or Sabbat x12 Pro, etc.
> 
> ...


Have you looked at the Sony Linkbuds (original, not the recently announced Linkbuds S)? They are the best for situational awareness since they don't block any sound at all.  Before I got them, the Samsung Galaxy Buds Live we're my go to for calls and situations where I wanted to hear my surroundings (like biking for example).  I find the Linkbuds to be more balanced for music (more to my liking) and much lighter and comfortable.  They are my new go to for calls but also use them for music when in the office.  Galaxy Buds Live are great as well but I found it to be more V shaped and bass heavy than I liked so I really only used it for calls.  I also have other TWS that I use for music such as the PI7.

Btw I was very happy to find my Linkbuds sitting on my desk when I went back into my office.  If they were lost, I would've bought a new set right away.


----------



## Sustenter

C_Lindbergh said:


> Your best bet is a device with APTX adaptive, for example the MTW3 or B&O EX (depending on your budget/needs).
> 
> Not sure if you're source would be a phone or PC/TV, but for the latter you'd need an Aptx Adaptive USB adapter from Aliexpress. When it comes to phones you should be fine even your phone doesn't support ATPX adaptive, unless we're talking about live videos ofc.


Thank you, I wanted to buy cheap TWS and then buy full sized bt headphones but apparently cheap TWS don't have the codec for low latency, so I guess I'll just go with a TWS with good enough sound quality for under 50$.

Is the 1more Piston Buds pro good enough for this purpose ?


----------



## Tommy C

Sustenter said:


> Thank you, I wanted to buy cheap TWS and then buy full sized bt headphones but apparently cheap TWS don't have the codec for low latency, so I guess I'll just go with a TWS with good enough sound quality for under 50$.
> 
> Is the 1more Piston Buds pro good enough for this purpose ?


I don’t know about the 1More Pison Buds but based on photos it looks like they are still in-ear, no?

I have the FIIL CC2 and they are solid. They fit like true earbuds and have decent sound and give you plenty of awareness to your surrounding.


----------



## Sustenter

Tommy C said:


> I don’t know about the 1More Pison Buds but based on photos it looks like they are still in-ear, no?
> 
> I have the FIIL CC2 and they are solid. They fit like true earbuds and have decent sound and give you plenty of awareness to your surrounding.


Hello, I think you answered to the wrong person, I'm searching for iem only, as my ears are weird airpods-shaped earbuds fall off.

Thank you.


----------



## Juturna

Okay y'all, I'm probably going to buy the Fiio UTWS3, unfortunately they're not going to be able to be found for under an equivalent of $130 here domestically, and if I order them from China they will still be $100. Are they still worth it? Also could probably get the UTWS5 or Shure TW2 for $180, are they worth the extra money over the UTWS3?


----------



## Juturna

Would also love a comparison between the Fokus Pros and the new Astell & Kern TWS earbuds, because unlike the Fokus Pros, those can actually be found here!


----------



## Tommy C

Sustenter said:


> Hello, I think you answered to the wrong person, I'm searching for iem only, as my ears are weird airpods-shaped earbuds fall off.
> 
> Thank you.


My bad. I mixed up your post with another. This was supposed to be a reply to @Blueshound24


----------



## erockg

jant71 said:


> Uh-Oh! We got trouble...for erockg's wallet. New Final flagship ZE8000...
> 
> 
> 
> Buuuuut, it won't be around till later this year so still time to put a little cash on the side here and there.


Hmm... I don't know.  Kind of Frankenstein looking.  What is it with their design team???  But hey, maybe they sing like angels.


----------



## erockg

Got the Linkbuds S yesterday.  Really like them.  Transparency is spot on.  Has a lot of the same features as the XM4, less Qi and sound quality.  That said, I do like how they sound.  They give the AirPods Pro a run for their money.  They are incredibly light, fit is very comfortable --- best fit yet for Sony IMO.  I was able to listen to a book at night lying on my side.  No issues.  Phone calls are great.  Mic manages to block out a lot of background noise while talking.  ANC isn't as good as the XM4 but it's still really really good.  Surprisingly good.  I might take them on a flight later this week and test them out.  If this is a sign of what the XM5 could become, folks should be excited.  Who knows what the future holds.


----------



## Not so fat head

I wouldn’t expect any earthshaking improvement..  Bluetooth chips, codex’s, ANC and speaker driver/amplifiers are state of the art in these latest offerings.
Now comes the pain of moving it all to a lower cost for mass market..
Something the big boys do extremely well.


----------



## Not so fat head

I picked up my momentum 2’s for $180.00, nice discount 👍


----------



## dweaver

erockg said:


> Got the Linkbuds S yesterday.  Really like them.  Transparency is spot on.  Has a lot of the same features as the XM4, less Qi and sound quality.  That said, I do like how they sound.  They give the AirPods Pro a run for their money.  They are incredibly light, fit is very comfortable --- best fit yet for Sony IMO.  I was able to listen to a book at night lying on my side.  No issues.  Phone calls are great.  Mic manages to block out a lot of background noise while talking.  ANC isn't as good as the XM4 but it's still really really good.  Surprisingly good.  I might take them on a flight later this week and test them out.  If this is a sign of what the XM5 could become, folks should be excited.  Who knows what the future holds


When you say the sound isn't as good as the XM4 in what way?


----------



## stacey

Granted I just bought some TWS, but I wouldn’t be very inclined to upgrade until lossless audio is more widespread. 

Likely that won’t be for a while. Qualcomm Sound is restricted to Qualcomm devices (That excludes a lot of DAPs and PCs) and AFIAK no aptx lossless stuff is out.


----------



## alsorkin

stacey said:


> Granted I just bought some TWS, but I wouldn’t be very inclined to upgrade until lossless audio is more widespread.
> 
> Likely that won’t be for a while. Qualcomm Sound is restricted to Qualcomm devices (That excludes a lot of DAPs and PCs) and AFIAK no aptx lossless stuff is out.


Only devices that will be incorporating the Qualcomm QCC3071 chip will be capable of lossless Snapdragon Sound performance.


----------



## darveniza

erockg said:


> Got the Linkbuds S yesterday.  Really like them.  Transparency is spot on.  Has a lot of the same features as the XM4, less Qi and sound quality.  That said, I do like how they sound.  They give the AirPods Pro a run for their money.  They are incredibly light, fit is very comfortable --- best fit yet for Sony IMO.  I was able to listen to a book at night lying on my side.  No issues.  Phone calls are great.  Mic manages to block out a lot of background noise while talking.  ANC isn't as good as the XM4 but it's still really really good.  Surprisingly good.  I might take them on a flight later this week and test them out.  If this is a sign of what the XM5 could become, folks should be excited.  Who knows what the future holds.


Hopefully you can share your experience with ANC during flight. I found the Technics are quite remarkable on this aspect and for me worked better than Sony, B&O ,etc due to the ability of the dial from low to high. Was able to find the low band to work best to cancel the plane noise while allowing the tuning for the music not to become over/under emphasized


----------



## erockg

darveniza said:


> Hopefully you can share your experience with ANC during flight. I found the Technics are quite remarkable on this aspect and for me worked better than Sony, B&O ,etc due to the ability of the dial from low to high. Was able to find the low band to work best to cancel the plane noise while allowing the tuning for the music not to become over/under emphasized


Oh interesting.  The AKG tws work like this too.  I don't have the Technics anymore but do have the AKG.  I'm not expecting much from the Sonys, but also grabbed the new XM5 cans for the flight as well.  LAX to EWR is a long trip with an almost 4 year old.  I'll report back if they work well or not at all.


----------



## Blueshound24

TK33 said:


> Have you looked at the Sony Linkbuds (original, not the recently announced Linkbuds S)? They are the best for situational awareness since they don't block any sound at all.  Before I got them, the Samsung Galaxy Buds Live we're my go to for calls and situations where I wanted to hear my surroundings (like biking for example).  I find the Linkbuds to be more balanced for music (more to my liking) and much lighter and comfortable.  They are my new go to for calls but also use them for music when in the office.  Galaxy Buds Live are great as well but I found it to be more V shaped and bass heavy than I liked so I really only used it for calls.  I also have other TWS that I use for music such as the PI7.
> 
> Btw I was very happy to find my Linkbuds sitting on my desk when I went back into my office.  If they were lost, I would've bought a new set right away.



I had not considered or even heard of the Linkbuds, so I just looked at a couple interesting reviews. They look promising and I like the idea of a more balanced sound.
However, I never thought an open earbud style like the Galaxy Buds Live could be bass heavy?

The reviews of the FIIL CC2 looked promising also, but the idea of them not having a cover on their case was a turn off. And the stems seemed like they are really too huge.


----------



## TK33

Blueshound24 said:


> I had not considered or even heard of the Linkbuds, so I just looked at a couple interesting reviews. They look promising and I like the idea of a more balanced sound.
> However, I never thought an open earbud style like the Galaxy Buds Live could be bass heavy?
> 
> The reviews of the FIIL CC2 looked promising also, but the idea of them not having a cover on their case was a turn off. And the stems seemed like they are really too huge.


Take "bass heavy" with a grain of salt since that is very subjective and can also vary based on fit.  That is why I qualified it with "than I liked".  I don't find the Linkbuds to lack in bass once EQ'd but others may describe them as having no bass.  I think it is all relative and personal preference plays a huge role.

As for open design, Galaxy Buds Live and the Linkbuds are the only ones I can speak to since those are the only ones that I have but I would not consider Galaxy Buds Live to be completely open the same way the Linkbuds are.  I can actually get somewhat of a seal with the Galaxy Buds Live such that the ANC actually does make a difference (e.g. reducing fan noise).  Of the two, the Linkbuds definitely win in the situational awareness department and you can literally hear everything around you like you aren't wearing earbuds.  I think the Linkbuds are great for certain situations (love them for use in the office or calls at home) but when in a noisier environment, I still reach for my Galaxy Buds Live for calls.


----------



## Techguy17

BigZ12 said:


> I tried my Azla Xelastec tips with newly (just now) updated MW08 Sport.
> ANC set to "All day".
> The MW08S has never sounded better. Punchier bass, less muddy and more crispy and detailed.
> BTW, the mics is WAY better than before after the 2 latest updates.


I just tried this combination with my MW08’s.  Updated the firmware and changed Spinfit 360s for Azla Xelastec tips.  The sound is so much crisper, more detailed and less muddy. 

I had mostly given up on these MW08s and gone back to my MW07 Plus’ because I didn’t like the muddy sound and inferior mics.  These tips definitely cleaned up sound even more than spiral dots had and initially seem as comfortable as spinfits.  Firmware update helped the mic clarity also.  MW08s had been a struggle since my Mw07 Plus were near perfect except for non-existent noise cancelling.


----------



## Hi-fi Wigwammer

Do any Fokus Pro owners have some EQ settings they'd like to share please?


----------



## scubaphish (May 23, 2022)

Hi-fi Wigwammer said:


> Do any Fokus Pro owners have some EQ settings they'd like to share please?


The one I’ve been using past 24 hours based on built-in sound test, but I brought bass down a little from the results (which you may not expect since everything in the EQ is raised). In short, I seem to have lost some hearing as I couldn’t hear many of the tones, and I think I like the way this sounds. FYI, I keep volume well below 50%.

Edit: I still can’t believe I’m listening with any bass kicked up, as when I first put them on they sounded too warm and I couldn’t hear the highs and mids.  So of course I just kicked up those frequencies. That’s how I listened for the first few days. Then I tried the sound test again and gave some time for brain burn in and now I can’t go back to my earlier eq settings. Wild!


----------



## erockg

dweaver said:


> When you say the sound isn't as good as the XM4 in what way?


Theoretically, because the drivers are smaller in the Linkbuds S, but that said I still like the sound.  I can't compare and contrast because I got rid of my XM4 a while back due to fit.  But from what I've read, the XM4 are the premium sounding pair.  It's all relative, as you know.  Fit, form and function all comes into play.  I will say, all the controls are the same and ANC is great.  I've been using them all weekend.  The only think I'm still missing is Qi charging.


----------



## Ceeluh7

Hi-fi Wigwammer said:


> Do any Fokus Pro owners have some EQ settings they'd like to share please?


I simply add some energy past 2k and drop back down in the upper treble. I leave the bass alone because these are cannons in the lowend


----------



## scubaphish (May 23, 2022)

Ceeluh7 said:


> I simply add some energy past 2k and drop back down in the upper treble. I leave the bass alone because these are cannons in the lowend


Yeah, I thought same thing when I started using them.  I just brought my whole line down, keeping the same shape. Similar sound, just turn up the volume!!


----------



## jant71 (May 23, 2022)

A bit of a slow day. The new Linkbuds S have a newer 5mm driver now making me think about the speaker tech and remembered about all the stuff we heard about at CES. Of course things are still slow and even shutdown atm so not much in the way of progress. We had new smaller amps coming for portables and the new combo solutions we mentioned earlier when poking fun at Noble and with the new tech they could integrate ANC and all w/o the compromise they say they have to make for a FoKus. So, let's talk some of the new speaker tech. Nice if there are gonna be smaller high SQ amps there should be smaller speakers to go along with them. Sounds Great doing semiconductor speaker tech to really reduce size. As they say you can fit six speakers per side in the space that normally used for one. 

A little from the sounds great speaker info...

"Touted as a breakthrough in speaker technology, Sounds Great's Motion Microchip reduces the form factor by 90% compared to the traditional coil in dynamic drivers used in earphones, while increasing the potential power range by 10x. These claims are now finding potential interest in a wider range of applications, from conferencing solutions to new-generation wearables, where the demand for higher quality audio output at lower power is rising exponentially.

But it's the potential appeal for efficient multi-driver TWS earbuds and hearing aids that stands-out as an immediate market for the semiconductor speaker (semicon speaker) technology. "Sounds Great's SDS solution is turning the audio world on its head by enabling two to six Dynamic Speakers in one earbud, compared to a single such speaker in existing earphones," says Ted Zhou."

Discuss. Anyone want to see a Wizard tuned 6 driver per side 4 semicon/ 2 BA hybrid with a next gen DAC/amp chip and ANC inside the FoKus housing? Gotta have the Exeger Powerfoyle solar charge case though.


----------



## jasonb

TK33 said:


> Take "bass heavy" with a grain of salt since that is very subjective and can also vary based on fit.  That is why I qualified it with "than I liked".  I don't find the Linkbuds to lack in bass once EQ'd but others may describe them as having no bass.  I think it is all relative and personal preference plays a huge role.
> 
> As for open design, Galaxy Buds Live and the Linkbuds are the only ones I can speak to since those are the only ones that I have but I would not consider Galaxy Buds Live to be completely open the same way the Linkbuds are.  I can actually get somewhat of a seal with the Galaxy Buds Live such that the ANC actually does make a difference (e.g. reducing fan noise).  Of the two, the Linkbuds definitely win in the situational awareness department and you can literally hear everything around you like you aren't wearing earbuds.  I think the Linkbuds are great for certain situations (love them for use in the office or calls at home) but when in a noisier environment, I still reach for my Galaxy Buds Live for calls.


I had the galaxy buds live and to me they were bass heavy, and lacked clarity. I also couldn’t get a consistent fit.


----------



## Ceeluh7

scubaphish said:


> Yeah, I thought same thing when I started using them.  I just brought my whole line down, keeping the same shape. Similar sound, just turn up the volume!!


Ya know the great thing about this set is... If you were to put these drivers in a regular iem shell and tuned them, I really believe these drivers are fantastic and would sound as such. Even in tws form they sound amazing to whatever I eq them to. Really you can find almost any sound signature with the fokus pro. I like authoritive bass but not unruly bass. It has to be tight but with heft. I love good mids even more. Awesome vocals, mids that aren't shouty but are forward enough. I also like highs that add air to the mix, perception of details. I can get really close with the fokus pro.


----------



## Not so fat head

jant71 said:


> A bit of a slow day. The new Linkbuds S have a newer 5mm driver now making me think about the speaker tech and remembered about all the stuff we heard about at CES. Of course things are still slow and even shutdown atm so not much in the way of progress. We had new smaller amps coming for portables and the new combo solutions we mentioned earlier when poking fun at Noble and with the new tech they could integrate ANC and all w/o the compromise they say they have to make for a FoKus. So, let's talk some of the new speaker tech. Nice if there are gonna be smaller high SQ amps there should be smaller speakers to go along with them. Sounds Great doing semiconductor speaker tech to really reduce size. As they say you can fit six speakers per side in the space that normally used for one.
> 
> A little from the sounds great speaker info...
> 
> ...


Hi Jant71,
Do you have pic of the die or mask of this DD driver integrated on silicon?
What is used for the membrane?
I know the speakers in mobile devices are becoming super small, but this is new to me.


----------



## stacey

jant71 said:


> Discuss. Anyone want to see a Wizard tuned 6 driver per side 4 semicon/ 2 BA hybrid with a next gen DAC/amp chip and ANC inside the FoKus housing? Gotta have the Exeger Powerfoyle solar charge case though.



Honestly driver count doesn’t excite me as much as how well implemented the system as a whole is, along with features like water/dust resistance  and decent mics does. We have all heard times where a single DD could sound better than a multi driver setup


----------



## jant71 (May 23, 2022)

Not so fat head said:


> Hi Jant71,
> Do you have pic of the die or mask of this DD driver integrated on silicon?
> What is used for the membrane?
> I know the speakers in mobile devices are becoming super small, but this is new to me.


Gotta go eat but I'll post these pics real quick. Feel free to dig for any more info that might be floating out there.




Sounds Great introduced the nano-semiconductor technology as part of the Taiwan Startup CES 2021 showcase. The concept of a speaker chip, with a minimal size of just 1mm x 1mm x 0.2mm was pitched as an ideal solution to extend battery life in true wireless earbuds with the possibility to create larger chips optimized for lower frequency ranges that could be combined without impact consumption in a major way. But the potential applications for Sounds Great' Semicon Speaker technology are much larger and that's what the company is promoting at this year's CES.



SDS also reproduces stereo sound in a 7x6mm form factor with independent tweeters, mid-range, woofers and even subwoofers focusing on very low frequency, resulting in sound pressure level optimization with extended frequency response.

An advantage mentioned specifically by Ted Zhou for this technology is the ability to customize the sound curve with precision, acting over very narrow bands in the signal, instead of amplifying or attenuating entire frequency bands. In its website the company already discusses possible array customizations from a 2-speaker system to a 4-speaker system, with or without Bass Reflex Port.

Sounds Great is also working on the development of multiple diaphragm materials on each independent speaker, creating SDS arrays with richer timbres for enhanced sound reproduction. "SDS' ability to create powerful and quality sound from compact spaces is a precursor to even more revolutionary audio applications such as hidden speakers on eyeglasses, AR/VR solutions, smart furniture, and even redefine car stereo architecture," adds co-founder Edmund Wu.


----------



## Not so fat head

jant71 said:


> Gotta go eat but I'll post these pics real quick. Feel free to dig for any more info that might be floating out there.
> 
> Sounds Great introduced the nano-semiconductor technology as part of the Taiwan Startup CES 2021 showcase. The concept of a speaker chip, with a minimal size of just 1mm x 1mm x 0.2mm was pitched as an ideal solution to extend battery life in true wireless earbuds with the possibility to create larger chips optimized for lower frequency ranges that could be combined without impact consumption in a major way. But the potential applications for Sounds Great' Semicon Speaker technology are much larger and that's what the company is promoting at this year's CES.
> 
> ...


Thank you!!
I’ve got reading to do….


----------



## clerkpalmer

Ex owners, do you find the case battery drains quickly? Nothing scientific but I find myself having a dead case quite a bit even without a ton of use. Thanks.


----------



## erockg

clerkpalmer said:


> Ex owners, do you find the case battery drains quickly? Nothing scientific but I find myself having a dead case quite a bit even without a ton of use. Thanks.


You're not the only one.  I'm experiencing weird draining issues.  For instance, fully charged, but then my left bud was at 90 and I hadn't even used them.  I've see the case drain too.  I'm hoping they get a firmware update out there that helps this.  It's not often to bother me because I have a rotation.  But still, it is odd and a bug.


----------



## clerkpalmer

erockg said:


> You're not the only one.  I'm experiencing weird draining issues.  For instance, fully charged, but then my left bud was at 90 and I hadn't even used them.  I've see the case drain too.  I'm hoping they get a firmware update out there that helps this.  It's not often to bother me because I have a rotation.  But still, it is odd and a bug.


Yeah I think the case is draining on its own  Not good for $400.


----------



## BooleanBones

clerkpalmer said:


> Ex owners, do you find the case battery drains quickly? Nothing scientific but I find myself having a dead case quite a bit even without a ton of use. Thanks.


I haven't used them today, but did use them quite a bit over the weekend. Case shows 94% right now in the app.


----------



## clerkpalmer

I’m gonna do some testing. Something definitely amiss. 


BooleanBones said:


> I haven't used them today, but did use them quite a bit over the weekend. Case shows 94% right now in the app.


----------



## BooleanBones

clerkpalmer said:


> I’m gonna do some testing. Something definitely amiss.


I will as well. I thought I noticed something fishy the other day, but figured maybe it was my wireless charger.


----------



## darveniza

erockg said:


> Oh interesting.  The AKG tws work like this too.  I don't have the Technics anymore but do have the AKG.  I'm not expecting much from the Sonys, but also grabbed the new XM5 cans for the flight as well.  LAX to EWR is a long trip with an almost 4 year old.  I'll report back if they work well or not at all.


4 year old with a pair of XM5 quite a sight 😃


----------



## erockg

darveniza said:


> 4 year old with a pair of XM5 quite a sight 😃


He’s got his own Belkin cans!


----------



## jant71

darveniza said:


> 4 year old with a pair of XM5 quite a sight 😃


The XM5 are not for a 4 year old. The XM5 are to not hear a 4 year old. ANC - Alleviate Noisy Children.


----------



## tonyfiore75

clerkpalmer said:


> Ex owners, do you find the case battery drains quickly? Nothing scientific but I find myself having a dead case quite a bit even without a ton of use. Thanks.


I'm sorta miffed by the battery drainage on the EX, both case and phones. I mean, not to the point where I wake them up and they're at 20%. I just thought there'd be a lot more in the reserve; especially considering I charge them whenever I'm done with them. I'm hoping a firmware update addresses this. It's not a 'problem' but as someone said, for $400, not cool.


----------



## darveniza

tonyfiore75 said:


> I'm sorta miffed by the battery drainage on the EX, both case and phones. I mean, not to the point where I wake them up and they're at 20%. I just thought there'd be a lot more in the reserve; especially considering I charge them whenever I'm done with them. I'm hoping a firmware update addresses this. It's not a 'problem' but as someone said, for $400, not cool.


Have other TWS units that do not suffer this and may lose 5% charge in a week of no use but never deplete the battery of the TWS units and the case. As I am also one that charges  the TWS units 100% after using


----------



## tonyfiore75

darveniza said:


> Have other TWS units that do not suffer this and may lose 5% charge in a week of no use but never deplete the battery of the TWS units and the case. As I am also one that charges  the TWS units 100% after using


Well it does seem we're not alone - unless this is one of you, haha. 

https://www.reddit.com/r/BangandOlufsen/comments/uvvshh/beoplay_ex_battery_drain_issue/


----------



## erockg (May 24, 2022)

tonyfiore75 said:


> I'm sorta miffed by the battery drainage on the EX, both case and phones. I mean, not to the point where I wake them up and they're at 20%. I just thought there'd be a lot more in the reserve; especially considering I charge them whenever I'm done with them. I'm hoping a firmware update addresses this. It's not a 'problem' but as someone said, for $400, not cool.





darveniza said:


> Have other TWS units that do not suffer this and may lose 5% charge in a week of no use but never deplete the battery of the TWS units and the case. As I am also one that charges  the TWS units 100% after using


I’m wondering if this is an app/software issue and not a earbud/case issue because they just updated the app yesterday. After they did so, I noticed different numbers for the battery charge.  Before the update the numbers were different.  🤷


----------



## tonyfiore75

erockg said:


> I’m wondering if this is an app/software issue and not a earbud/case issue because they just updated the app yesterday. After they did so, I noticed different numbers for the battery charge.  Before the update the numbers were different.  🤷


That's an interesting thought that I never considered. I suppose the app could misrepresent the facts. Although I'm on Android and my app hasn't been updated since 3/31/22. However, I just joined the Beta program for the app so I should have an updated app soon and I should be able to report if I find any differences.


----------



## tonyfiore75

And just so everyone is on the same page, these are B&O's battery usage recommendations:

https://support.bang-olufsen.com/hc...81713-What-is-the-battery-life-of-Beoplay-EX-


----------



## erockg

tonyfiore75 said:


> That's an interesting thought that I never considered. I suppose the app could misrepresent the facts. Although I'm on Android and my app hasn't been updated since 3/31/22. However, I just joined the Beta program for the app so I should have an updated app soon and I should be able to report if I find any differences.


Oh cool.  Looking forward to hearing if the beta solves anything.  

I reset/restored mine last night around 9pm, repaired them and this after being in the case all night at 730am they're still at L 100%, R 100% and C 98%


----------



## regancipher

First headfi review of QCY's sub $50 multipoint buds?


----------



## samandhi

tonyfiore75 said:


> I'm sorta miffed by the battery drainage on the EX, both case and phones. I mean, not to the point where I wake them up and they're at 20%. I just thought there'd be a lot more in the reserve; especially considering I charge them whenever I'm done with them. I'm hoping a firmware update addresses this. It's not a 'problem' but as someone said, for $400, not cool.





darveniza said:


> Have other TWS units that do not suffer this and may lose 5% charge in a week of no use but never deplete the battery of the TWS units and the case. As I am also one that charges  the TWS units 100% after using





erockg said:


> I’m wondering if this is an app/software issue and not a earbud/case issue because they just updated the app yesterday. After they did so, I noticed different numbers for the battery charge.  Before the update the numbers were different.  🤷


If done properly, once the monitors are returned to the case, they should shut off completely. So after charging they should not drain at all (unless stored for a very long time). My point is that, of the TWS I currently own, I can leave them sit for months with 0 battery drain, other than the initial charging of the monitors when first inserted after use. 

I used to have the Bose Soundsport Free TWS, and they would CONSTANTLY drain the case because they were always on, and trying to connect. This wasn't fixable with a FW update, and Bose never admitted the problem, but after a time, users all over figured it out, and were pretty angry that if you let them sit (in the case) for more than a week or so, they would be totally dead. 

I hope for all of your sakes (that own them) that it IS addressable with a FW update. It really wasn't a big deal with the Bose IF I used them on a daily basis, but if you have a large rotation like I do, you may not come back to them for some time, and they might be dead. On top of that, it means that you CAN'T store them, and the battery capacity will diminish quicker than otherwise. 

Just my $.02!


----------



## Tommy C

darveniza said:


> Have other TWS units that do not suffer this and may lose 5% charge in a week of no use but never deplete the battery of the TWS units and the case. As I am also one that charges  the TWS units 100% after using


I have the FiiL T1XS. The case is tiny and so are the buds fairly compact, I can  leave them charged in the car or gym bag and come back after 3 months and they are still ready to go, now this is a $50 set so I’m not expecting much but for $400 that would annoy me for sure.


----------



## Not so fat head

samandhi said:


> If done properly, once the monitors are returned to the case, they should shut off completely. So after charging they should not drain at all (unless stored for a very long time). My point is that, of the TWS I currently own, I can leave them sit for months with 0 battery drain, other than the initial charging of the monitors when first inserted after use.
> 
> I used to have the Bose Soundsport Free TWS, and they would CONSTANTLY drain the case because they were always on, and trying to connect. This wasn't fixable with a FW update, and Bose never admitted the problem, but after a time, users all over figured it out, and were pretty angry that if you let them sit (in the case) for more than a week or so, they would be totally dead.
> 
> ...


Yes, it was irritating…,
But that soundstage has yet to be beaten!!!
I still love and use them….
I simply recharge before use…


----------



## darveniza

Received my linBuds S and have been using all day.  Even tough these are priced less than the XM4 , the ANC feels same to my ears and I think is associated to the stock tips and the ergonomcs of the new shape. Has not bothered me after some long sessions of music and calls. These tip work really well. I did a swap with the XM 4 however the shape of the internal side still does not allow a similar fit. I am ok with trading the wireless charging

If someone is looking to try some Sony TWS, would recommend these.


----------



## SynaestheticA

Hey y'all, that itch has started and it's time to start the search for a new pair of TWS. Last time I was on the CA 1+, Nuarl N6 Pro2, Status Audio, XM3 & Mw07 were all the latest rave.

I thought I could go ahead and spend the next few weeks trawling the pages here and the internet over there for the latest and greatest. Or I thought I could beg to you lovely people (I bought a lady begging for food beef noodles this morning so don't go telling me that I don't deserve it) No good deed huh?

Anyway I digress, What's new on the TWS market and what has replaced the previously mentioned models and brands as the cool kid on the block?


----------



## erockg (May 24, 2022)

SynaestheticA said:


> Hey y'all, that itch has started and it's time to start the search for a new pair of TWS. Last time I was on the CA 1+, Nuarl N6 Pro2, Status Audio, XM3 & Mw07 were all the latest rave.
> 
> I thought I could go ahead and spend the next few weeks trawling the pages here and the internet over there for the latest and greatest. Or I thought I could beg to you lovely people (I bought a lady begging for food beef noodles this morning so don't go telling me that I don't deserve it) No good deed huh?
> 
> Anyway I digress, What's new on the TWS market and what has replaced the previously mentioned models and brands as the cool kid on the block?


I'd say the best of the new releases (not necessarily in this order) are:  Noble Fokus Pro, B&O EX and the Astell&Kern UW100, but they'd cost you.  Some of us are trying out the new Sony Linkbuds S and they're really great.  You can just type these in the search and you'll see us all chattering about the former and latter list.


----------



## samandhi

Not so fat head said:


> Yes, it was irritating…,
> But that soundstage has yet to be beaten!!!
> I still love and use them….
> I simply recharge before use…


Unfortunately, I had to give mine away to my son because I didn't want them to sit (and rot, so to speak) because I didn't use them enough. My son uses them every day (AFAIK).


----------



## Tenlow

SynaestheticA said:


> Hey y'all, that itch has started and it's time to start the search for a new pair of TWS. Last time I was on the CA 1+, Nuarl N6 Pro2, Status Audio, XM3 & Mw07 were all the latest rave.
> 
> I thought I could go ahead and spend the next few weeks trawling the pages here and the internet over there for the latest and greatest. Or I thought I could beg to you lovely people (I bought a lady begging for food beef noodles this morning so don't go telling me that I don't deserve it) No good deed huh?
> 
> Anyway I digress, What's new on the TWS market and what has replaced the previously mentioned models and brands as the cool kid on the block?


My very personal top 5 right now are:

1. Sennheiser Momentum True Wireless 3 
2. Bang & Olufsen EQ
3. Master & Dynamic MW08 Sport 
4. Sony WF-1000XM4 
5. Devialet Gemini 

That's including everything they bring onto the table, not just sound quality alone, though.

We've heard good things about the newly released B&O EX here, too e.g. but I haven't tested them myself yet. Love the EQ, though. Same applies to the already mentioned Astell & Kern offering, although they still look a bit bulky to me and don't offer ANC and voice controls. Finally, the Noble Audio FoKus Pro are very highly regarded here as well. I've only read reviews myself which ranged between good and excellent


----------



## dweaver (May 24, 2022)

darveniza said:


> Received my linBuds S and have been using all day.  Even tough these are priced less than the XM4 , the ANC feels same to my ears and I think is associated to the stock tips and the ergonomcs of the new shape. Has not bothered me after some long sessions of music and calls. These tip work really well. I did a swap with the XM 4 however the shape of the internal side still does not allow a similar fit. I am ok with trading the wireless charging
> 
> If someone is looking to try some Sony TWS, would recommend these.


Do you still have the XM4? I am looking for a semi detailed comparison on bass, mids, treble and sound stage/imaging. I keep reading the XM4 sound better but no details on the why they sound better. Personally I found the XM3 to be to dark and from everything I read the XM4 was even darker, so am hoping these might actually better balanced and have a bit more sparkle, if so then I would consider that an improvement versus less a downgrade in sound quality.


----------



## clerkpalmer

Can confirm my EX has a case drain issue. Fully charged on Sunday. Haven’t used the buds at all. Buds are at 100 percent. Case is at 66 percent. This is a bummer as the last exchange I did for my EQs took forever.  Not pleased.


----------



## davescleveland

Again I'll say the geekfly tws is better than the lot.


----------



## darveniza

dweaver said:


> Do you still have the XM4? I am looking for a semi detailed comparison on bass, mids, treble and sound stage/imaging. I keep reading the XM4 sound better but no details on the why they sound better. Personally I found the XM3 to be to dark and from everything I read the XM4 was even darker, so am hoping these might actually better balanced and have a bit more sparkle, if so then I would consider that an improvement versus less a downgrade in sound quality.


I do and to tell you the truth I could not really tell you a distinguish any real difference. Moved around the eq presets to see if I could find a bit more detail or clarity with some test tracks , but again nothing stood out,even under bass boats preset,maybe a bit more treble on the XM4 but this is stretching. The new ones do seal a lot more so this could be the reason.


----------



## dweaver

So essentially a similarly sounding TWS with better comfort and possibly a bit less ANC and no wireless charging both things I don't place as much value on. From the reviews I have listened to, the Linkbuds S actually have better call quality.

Have to admit I miss the Sony sound... Hope these go on sale soon. Will keep reading and watching .


----------



## AudioNoob

If anybody is curious about the Jabra 7 Pro with the new firmware or the 3 I'm slimming my collection, they are both up for grabs. I'll let the 7 go for $90 for head-fi folk. I just have too many and could use the spare change.


----------



## jant71 (May 25, 2022)

davescleveland said:


> Again I'll say the geekfly tws is better than the lot.


"The"? They have at least 3. Assuming you mean the 10. : ) Though I get it as they are tweaks/revisions of the same design.

They are good but you can't blame people for shying away. They are not easy to return for those who want to be able to do that. The controls still need work. The codecs and features are few as well. They are for the SQ only crowd for sure.


----------



## clerkpalmer

Called B&O this morning.  Frustrating to say the least.  Ship the product back (5 days).  They inspect for 7 to 10 business days.  Then they mail you a new one (5 more days).  I find this ridiculous.  Why don't they just send a new one out now with a label?  Isn't this SOP for a premium product in 2022?  In any event, I grew so frustrated that I just told them I wanted to return them.  I must be losing my patience in my old age.  For $400, I need a perfect experience.  And I need a better customer service experience.  Asking me to wait 3 plus weeks for an exchange on a brand new item is absurd.


----------



## Tenlow

I've played around with the Linkbuds S today (for only roughly two hours though) as a friend of mine has just bought them. 

Couple of first impressions/questions (but not more than that): 

1. Why are they naming these Linkbuds S? What do they have to do or in common with the "original" Linkbuds? It just doesn't make much sense to me. 
2. Who are these for at the current price (200€)? SQ and ANC not as good as the WF-1000XM4 imo. Considering I got the WF-1000XM4 here at a discounted price for 175€ and the MTW3 for 187€ here especially...
3. --> They sound okay to good imo (considering the very small 5mm drivers even) and they are very (!) comfortable, I will give them that. 
4. However, no wireless charging, no individual bud usage (?) and just good ANC doesn't cut it for me (for that price at least). 
5. Battery life seems ok, although 20h (total) are also not exactly top of the line. 
6. Transparency mode seemed good, but again, not as good as AirPods Pro to me and also not as good as the original Linkbuds obviously. 

So what is it about them? What are we supposed to buy them for? There is better sound available for the money, better ANC and also better features like wireless charging, individual buds usage and even battery life. Is it just the supreme comfort? The transparency mode?I couldn't really test calls with them in my limited time, so maybe they excel in that? 

Would be interesting to hear more on these but so far, I would (maybe) only consider them for not much more than 120€ or so really...


----------



## Fleeple

jant71 said:


> "The"? They have at least 3. Assuming you mean the 10. : ) Though I get it as they are tweaks/revisions of the same design.
> 
> They are good but you can't blame people for shying away. They are not easy to return for those who want to be able to do that. The controls still need work. The codecs and features are few as well. They are for the SQ only crowd for sure.


I keep looking at them as well, but without the ability to have any kind of ambient at all (I use these at work)......i can't even try them. They do look like they'd sound great though 😊


----------



## Fleeple (May 25, 2022)

Tenlow said:


> I've played around with the Linkbuds S today (for only roughly two hours though) as a friend of mine has just bought them.
> 
> Couple of first impressions/questions (but not more than that):
> 
> ...



As someone that has them right now, they are (to me at least) the closest thing to an all-around tws earbud for people on the go. Current thoughts:

-ANC is pretty solid, though there certainly is better. Fiddling around with earbud tips is key here (as always), but it could definitely be worse.

-Touch controls are pretty responsive, and have only really failed once thus far. Just popped them back into the case and I was fine at that point.

-Sound can be tweaked to a decent degree, and could absolutely sound worse; the Yamaha TW-E5B (think I got that name right), for example, sounded positively soulless to my ears, but YMMV.

-Ambient is excellent. These can be set to lower volume and pull in passthrough when you start talking, and this feature alone is worth talking about.

-These can absolutely be used in mono, they're just very odd about explaining it. You have to keep your voice assistant set to standard, not Google or Siri or anything else, or it won't work. No idea why but I'm not complaining. The controls stay as they are, though, so a phone/watch for pausing/playing and skipping tracks is personally recommended.

-Call quality is decent, but my voice was not as clear as they are on my old Microsoft Surface Buds (what I'm trying to replace). Haven't heard any wind complaints yet, but early days.

-Comfort and stability are both pretty solid; only really had these threaten falling out once, and that may have just been a bit of my hair keeping it from securing properly.

-No real connection issues unless I set it to music over stability; was able to walk about 50 feet or so from my car before realizing that my phone was still in said car (as the music finally hiccupped at that point).

Those are my current thoughts, at least 😅 (this is my 26th attempt at earbuds if memory serves).


----------



## erockg

jant71 said:


> "The"? They have at least 3. Assuming you mean the 10. : ) Though I get it as they are tweaks/revisions of the same design.
> 
> They are good but you can't blame people for shying away. They are not easy to return for those who want to be able to do that. The controls still need work. The codecs and features are few as well. They are for the SQ only crowd for sure.


Agreed here.  They’ve been out for a while and I always shy away from those kind of sellers.  Some say they’re great but there are definitely other buds that give them a huge run for the money.  You know me, if they were on Amazon, I’d have tried them almost a few years ago when they came out!


----------



## Sam L

clerkpalmer said:


> Can confirm my EX has a case drain issue. Fully charged on Sunday. Haven’t used the buds at all. Buds are at 100 percent. Case is at 66 percent. This is a bummer as the last exchange I did for my EQs took forever.  Not pleased.


wow, that's terrible. Seems like that is something B&O should not have missed.


----------



## Tenlow (May 25, 2022)

Fleeple said:


> As someone that has them right now, they are (to me at least) the closest thing to an all-around tws earbud for people on the go. Current thoughts:
> 
> -ANC is pretty solid, though there certainly is better. Fiddling around with earbud tips is key here (as always), but it could definitely be worse.
> 
> ...


Thanks for your very detailed reply!

That's what I kind of mean, though. You mentioned:

ANC - solid
Touch controls - pretty responsive
Sound - can be tweaked, could sound worse
Ambient mode - excellent
Mono mode - is there (good to know btw!)
Call quality - decent
Comfort and stability - pretty solid
Connection - good, unless...

+ no wireless charging, small drivers, quite good/solid battery life, touch control customization limited, no multipoint (yet?)...

All things considered, this does not sound like 200€ to me and also not really like an allround pair I would personally use on a regular basis.

They seem to be a very comfortable TWS with an excellent ambient mode and solid sound and ANC and a weird product name 

It's not like I think that they are bad and I don't want to be overly critical here, especially as owners seem to like them so far! I just don't feel like paying 200 for them with everything that's available on the market (see my 175€ deal for the XM4 or the 187€ for the MTW3 even).

For a solid, kind of everyday allround pair, I still really like the Nothing Ear 1 very much, honestly. Once the hype was over and they really fixed most of the bugs via firmware updates, they are really good for their price of 99€ (often to be found between 70-80 even).

They are also very light (4,7g) and comfortable with a rock solid fit for me. They sound much better than their reputation might make it seem (with ANC on), have 11.6mm drivers, have ok ANC, really solid microphones even, same applies to the ambient mode. They look good, have a pretty app, ok battery life, single bud usage, wireless charging, auto play/pause, IPX4,  Bluetooth 5.2 and last but not least very nice touch controls (love that volume up/down works on each side).

Just one example, though. Are they better than the Linkbuds S? Maybe not, maybe yes for some. But they are only half of the Linkbuds' price. Competition is steep these days.


----------



## erockg

Anyone else notice the Linkbuds S are quite noisy walking outdoors.  Maybe tip rolling in my future.  Devialet Gemini had this problem too.  Also, had a few dropouts walking.  Nothing major, but happened.  OG Linkbuds had dropouts too.


----------



## Fleeple

Tenlow said:


> Thanks for your very detailed reply!
> 
> That's what I kind of mean, though. You mentioned:
> 
> ...


That's more than fair 😄 I certainly haven't tried everything out there; these are my thoughts in comparison to the list below my profile 😊. I'll look into the nothing again 😄 although how would you say it stacks up to the audio melomania touch? I've heard good things about it since it's release, and it's been updated as recently as april.


----------



## Fleeple

erockg said:


> Anyone else notice the Linkbuds S are quite noisy walking outdoors.  Maybe tip rolling in my future.  Devialet Gemini had this problem too.  Also, had a few dropouts walking.  Nothing major, but happened.  OG Linkbuds had dropouts too.


Mine don't really have dropouts since I switched my connection to stability over sound (don't quite remember what it was called) in the app, but I wish you luck with your buds 😣 hopefully tech support can work with you on these.


----------



## dweaver

I think Sony has the Linkbuds S artificially priced high to force them to be between the Linkbuds and the WF-1000XM4 and then by having the XM4  going on sale at almost the same price causing them to sell because people will want the "best" model since they are the same price. If the sale of the Linkbuds start to drop then that price will drop and the S model will likely follow.

I also think as long as the XM4 go on sale it will hurt sales of the new model causing Sony to change their strategy.

But for now I bet it just helps them sell more XM4's.


----------



## Tenlow

Fleeple said:


> That's more than fair 😄 I certainly haven't tried everything out there; these are my thoughts in comparison to the list below my profile 😊. I'll look into the nothing again 😄 although how would you say it stacks up to the audio melomania touch? I've heard good things about it since it's release, and it's been updated as recently as april.


Have never tested the Melomania Touch myself, sorry  There are just too many buds out there for us it seems haha. This game will never end, Lord help us all for we have sinned and will definitely continue to do so...


----------



## Fleeple

Tenlow said:


> Have never tested the Melomania Touch myself, sorry  There are just too many buds out there for us it seems haha. This game will never end, Lord help us all for we have sinned and will definitely continue to do so...


Fair enough, thank you all the same 😊 you're really not wrong 😅


----------



## darveniza

erockg said:


> Anyone else notice the Linkbuds S are quite noisy walking outdoors.  Maybe tip rolling in my future.  Devialet Gemini had this problem too.  Also, had a few dropouts walking.  Nothing major, but happened.  OG Linkbuds had dropouts too.


Did you set for sound quality or connect stability.


----------



## TK33

erockg said:


> Anyone else notice the Linkbuds S are quite noisy walking outdoors.  Maybe tip rolling in my future.  Devialet Gemini had this problem too.  Also, had a few dropouts walking.  Nothing major, but happened.  OG Linkbuds had dropouts too.


Interesting.  My original Linkbuds have been rock solid in terms of connection quality.  It is one of the things that I really like about them (aside from being aware of everything around me).  Rarely notice any dropouts while walking around the city (NYC), except for one block around Penn Station where I seem to lose audio in one ear everytime I walk by (happens with every TWS for some reason).  I usually use them with my Pixel 6, which is often in my back pocket when I'm walking around.


----------



## Sam L

james444 said:


> Oppo Enco Air 2 sound pretty amazing, except for a 8kHz spike that needs EQ. Good detail resolution, tight bass. Better than Fiil CC imo.
> Also, these sound very good for the asking price: https://www.amazon.co.jp/gp/product/B09M3MK1QG/?th=1 and don't need EQ. Easily the best semi in-ears in terms of sound quality for money that I've tried. Connection stability outside the house is a tad wonky though, due to short stems.


Just an FYI, in case others stumble on this post. The link is not for the oppo air 2. It pairs as "pro18" and does not connect to the oppo Heymelody app. If you translate the first review, the user verifies non Oppo tws.

Still sounds pretty good, though.


----------



## erockg

darveniza said:


> Did you set for sound quality or connect stability.


Stability.


----------



## Caipirina

dweaver said:


> Has anyone tried the ATH-CKS50TW? I know they have good battery life but how are they in the sound department and over all functionality?
> 
> They seem reasonably priced.


I have them and they are 'fine' ... I did not find the bass as impressive as some of the reviews / marketing made it seem .. and I got them around the same time as some more 'dynamic' buds, namely the Soundcore Liberty 3 ...
The fit of the ATH is good when sitting .. but when walking it feels like they are coming loose ...
Have to admit that I don't reach for them that often .. I think that crazy battery life is the strongest selling point. 

That being said, they do not sound bad at all ... just not memorable


----------



## FYLegend

I just got the Jabra Elite 3 and am quite happy with the overall package (good fit, USB-C + ambient mode for under 100$) but unfortunately there is a high noise floor as many reviewers have noted (I believe the problem is in all units, just some people are noticing it more than others). It's not to the point it is a dealbreaker for me and is barely noticeable for louder music, but if you're just listening to podcasts and are sensitive to the higher frequences you'll be very disappointed.

Tuning is a broad V shape with hefty mid-bass and sparkly treble which is recessed in the lower highs to upper mids, the opposite of something like the Galaxy Buds+ which have been my daily driver lately. I will have to see how these impressions stay in the long term. 

Transparency mode is good overall but I do hear a slightly delay which is a bit underwhelming considering Jabra was one of the early pioneers for it on the 65t.  I also wish there was more controls for the volume and it doesn't remember your transparency setting the next time you reset the earbuds.

On the other hand discontinuing the 75t is a real shame, since it would be a great bang-for-buck now with a dropped price, but I'm guessing the chip shortage and prioritizing of newer products took a toll.


----------



## The1Signature (May 26, 2022)

TK33 said:


> Interesting.  My original Linkbuds have been rock solid in terms of connection quality.  It is one of the things that I really like about them (aside from being aware of everything around me).  Rarely notice any dropouts while walking around the city (NYC), except for one block around Penn Station where I seem to lose audio in one ear everytime I walk by (happens with every TWS for some reason).  I usually use them with my Pixel 6, which is often in my back pocket when I'm walking around.


same here, the original linkbuds have a very stable bt connection with my samsung s22 ultra. especially after the last updates.




dweaver said:


> I think Sony has the Linkbuds S artificially priced high to force them to be between the Linkbuds and the WF-1000XM4 and then by having the XM4  going on sale at almost the same price causing them to sell because people will want the "best" model since they are the same price. If the sale of the Linkbuds start to drop then that price will drop and the S model will likely follow.
> 
> I also think as long as the XM4 go on sale it will hurt sales of the new model causing Sony to change their strategy.
> 
> But for now I bet it just helps them sell more XM4's.


i see it like you. i have the original linkbuds + xm4.

the linkbuds s haven't a good anc as the xm4 and doesn't give you the "feel free all day long" vibes from the original linkbuds. it is something in between for those who do not care about "high-end anc" but need it a little at least.


----------



## james444 (May 26, 2022)

Sam L said:


> Just an FYI, in case others stumble on this post. The link is not for the oppo air 2. It pairs as "pro18" and does not connect to the oppo Heymelody app. If you translate the first review, the user verifies non Oppo tws.
> 
> Still sounds pretty good, though.


Sorry for the confusion, I was actually talking about two different TWS. Everything starting with the word "Also" was meant to describe the Pro18.

It never occured to me that this might be misunderstood, since I said the Oppos need EQ while the others don't need it.


----------



## FYLegend

1More EVO looks nice but I've been told they do not remember your ANC setting which is a real oversight at this price point! It's one of those "I don't have to include it if Apple doesn't" like how some brands exclude volume controls


----------



## Bhelpoori

FYLegend said:


> 1More EVO looks nice but I've been told they do not remember your ANC setting which is a real oversight at this price point! It's one of those "I don't have to include it if Apple doesn't" like how some brands exclude volume controls


Correct, they don’t remember the ANC setting. It is one of the many quirks.

However, don’t worry, the ANC isn’t that good anyways so having it on may not make much difference anyways.


----------



## helmutcheese

So, *one more 1More* BS claims then, the PistonBuds PRO's 38dB ANC was meh so as the original *"1MORE True Wireless ANC"*?

Control on above is the same on the EVO so lacking.


----------



## Sam L

james444 said:


> Sorry for the confusion, I was actually talking about two different TWS. Everything starting with the word "Also" was meant to describe the Pro18.
> 
> It never occured to me that this might be misunderstood, since I said the Oppos need EQ while the others don't need it.


my bad, wasn't reading too carefully. While the pro18's sound great stock, I wish there was an app to adjust touch settings. there's never a perfect solution in this sickness.


----------



## Sam L

DigDub said:


> I have the fp9, no issues. Love the transmitter feature. With online seminars getting more common nowadays, I can plug the case into my bluetooth-less computer for wireless audio.


I just picked up an fp9 for the transmitter feature and the mic(?) I'm hoping that the mic quality for calls is good? There's not a lot of mentions in this thread of the fp9 (4 came up in a thread search). How effective is the anc? I'll be doing some long flights and can see myself using the transmitter but if the anc is lacking, I'll probably end up using a 3.5mm cord into the sony xm4 or bose 700's


----------



## Fleeple

Sam L said:


> I just picked up an fp9 for the transmitter feature and the mic(?) I'm hoping that the mic quality for calls is good? There's not a lot of mentions in this thread of the fp9 (4 came up in a thread search). How effective is the anc? I'll be doing some long flights and can see myself using the transmitter but if the anc is lacking, I'll probably end up using a 3.5mm cord into the sony xm4 or bose 700's


I was never able to assess all of the above, but I did have them briefly.....they might have some quality assurance issues. They were great and comfortable on the first night, but I couldn't test further by day two because one of the earbuds sounded like a seashell when I put it in my ear 😅 would see if forums indicate if this has changed or not, as I wasn't the only person on Amazon with issues at the time.


----------



## Bhelpoori

Sam L said:


> I just picked up an fp9 for the transmitter feature and the mic(?) I'm hoping that the mic quality for calls is good? There's not a lot of mentions in this thread of the fp9 (4 came up in a thread search). How effective is the anc? I'll be doing some long flights and can see myself using the transmitter but if the anc is lacking, I'll probably end up using a 3.5mm cord into the sony xm4 or bose 700's


I haven’t got the fp9 but I’ve tried many, many TWS on many, many plane rides and none get close to either my 700s or XM3 on the plane, except the Bose QC…. but the 700s have exceptional microphones, a cable and sufficient battery life which the QCs don’t.


----------



## jant71

Caipirina said:


> I have them and they are 'fine' ... I did not find the bass as impressive as some of the reviews / marketing made it seem .. and I got them around the same time as some more 'dynamic' buds, namely the Soundcore Liberty 3 ...
> The fit of the ATH is good when sitting .. but when walking it feels like they are coming loose ...
> Have to admit that I don't reach for them that often .. I think that crazy battery life is the strongest selling point.
> 
> That being said, they do not sound bad at all ... just not memorable



Stock tips right? I see AT are coming with different length tips. Not great if they feel like they are gonna fall out. I used the AT for sports and everything with no issues just with regular size tips. They also lowered the quality of the bass. I did find I liked the AT tips on other TWS though but not optimal for CKS50TW though. JVC, Sony, and Final do okay for tips. Other japan brands like Nuarl, AT, and Yamaha shoot themselves in the foot as far as tips. Nuarl and Yamaha were worse. Boomy lower quality bass on the Nuarl worse than the AT so those had to be changed. Yamaha, like a page or two back, you can get the sterile tinny sound someone said they had "no soul" but they can. Actually got rid of the Nuarl due to them having quality and clarity once you get the right tips but they took the soul and personality out of them. I thought the TW-E5B has the soul and emotion the Nuarl lacked but not with the stock tips that are all wrong and usually kills the low end. Most TWS benefit but some are in dire need of aftermarket tips. 

Anyone seen this posted by FiIO?




Kinda scares me. Don't know about anybody else? What drivers are they gonna put in there if it could be as low as $140. Put 4332's in there so you can't then go cheap on drivers. Put worthy drivers in there. Even GeekFly charges $299. I hope they don't let us down. Gotta be there with the best not MTW3 level with less features. Certainly fine but not enough for the recipe. HQ amping and multiple drivers should give us better than the A&K and perhaps the SQ crown for a while. Plus they have the adapters as competition so you can put some fine earphones on them. What is the point to make a TWS that isn't top notch when they make such an option. Hopefully it is priced more as a market disruptor and is actually top notch SQ.


----------



## Fleeple

jant71 said:


> Stock tips right? I see AT are coming with different length tips. Not great if they feel like they are gonna fall out. I used the AT for sports and everything with no issues just with regular size tips. They also lowered the quality of the bass. I did find I liked the AT tips on other TWS though but not optimal for CKS50TW though. JVC, Sony, and Final do okay for tips. Other japan brands like Nuarl, AT, and Yamaha shoot themselves in the foot as far as tips. Nuarl and Yamaha were worse. Boomy lower quality bass on the Nuarl worse than the AT so those had to be changed. Yamaha, like a page or two back, you can get the sterile tinny sound someone said they had "no soul" but they can. Actually got rid of the Nuarl due to them having quality and clarity once you get the right tips but they took the soul and personality out of them. I thought the TW-E5B has the soul and emotion the Nuarl lacked but not with the stock tips that are all wrong and usually kills the low end. Most TWS benefit but some are in dire need of aftermarket tips.
> 
> Anyone seen this posted by FiIO?
> 
> Kinda scares me. Don't know about anybody else? What drivers are they gonna put in there if it could be as low as $140. Put 4332's in there so you can't then go cheap on drivers. Put worthy drivers in there. Even GeekFly charges $299. I hope they don't let us down. Gotta be there with the best not MTW3 level with less features. Certainly fine but not enough for the recipe. HQ amping and multiple drivers should give us better than the A&K and perhaps the SQ crown for a while. Plus they have the adapters as competition so you can put some fine earphones on them. What is the point to make a TWS that isn't top notch when they make such an option. Hopefully it is priced more as a market disruptor and is actually top notch SQ.


Hello, I was the soulless comment 😂 what earbud tips do you use? I tried whizzer, azla crystal and xelastec, and noble.....i think, on the last one. Noble doesn't stay in my ear as well sadly. I really wanted to like them as I'd heard great things about them and their mic (I talk on the phone a lot).

Also thank you for posting about the fiio, that's one I haven't seen yet 😄


----------



## jant71 (May 26, 2022)

Fleeple said:


> Hello, I was the soulless comment 😂 what earbud tips do you use? I tried whizzer, azla crystal and xelastec, and noble.....i think, on the last one. Noble doesn't stay in my ear as well sadly. I really wanted to like them as I'd heard great things about them and their mic (I talk on the phone a lot).
> 
> Also thank you for posting about the fiio, that's one I haven't seen yet 😄



I had a couple I like but I settled on Philips tips. Wider bore and soft core as I think that is a key. Still getting 4.4 I think on the Amazon Japan reviews but the negative ones all complain about not getting enough bass or warmth.

See how they seal against the rear and grip and conform some to the bore after the lip. W/o tips you see that venting channel in the bore. Try with tips that will do that or some tape or other something to seal it up. If the tips seal that and seal fine in your ears it should help fix them up. They also push a bit more air after the driver loosens up is they are on the newer side.


----------



## Fleeple

jant71 said:


> I had a couple I like but I settled on Philips tips. Wider bore and soft core as I think that is a key. Still getting 4.4 I think on the Amazon Japan reviews but the negative ones all complain about not getting enough bass or warmth.
> 
> See how they seal against the rear and grip and conform some to the bore after the lip. W/o tips you see that venting channel in the bore. Try with tips that will do that or some tape or other something to seal it up. If the tips seal that and seal fine in your ears it should help fix them up. They also more a bit more air after the driver loosens up.


Thank you! I'll see if I can find them 😊


----------



## JoshG1217

Sold my Fokus Pro because the fit just didn't work for me. The Technics Az60 (or something like that) arrived today. I have them with the Sedna M tips. Holy crap these are good. First one where I've definitely thought this was a clear upgrade to the XM4's. Keeping these.. and they fit in my ears! Who knew human ears don't work well with giant nozzles and weird shaped discs (master and dynamic, What are you thinking?)!


----------



## Hearforthemusic

Would anyone recommend the az60s for the gym.
I find the xm4s a bit cumbersome, my jabra active elite 7s are being returned due to left earbud no longer working , so looking for some new truly wireless for the gym. 
The better the audio quality the better.
If not az60s, any other recommendations , maybe £200-250 max


----------



## Juturna

Okay y'all, is the UTWS5 worth twice as much as the UTWS3 at this stage? I can find the UTWS3 for €66,6 and the UTWS5 for €124,99... feels like quite a substantial price difference tbh.


----------



## Juturna (May 26, 2022)

Also thinking of selling my AZ60's... they're just collecting dust since I got the Galaxy Bud Pro's, and when I try them out to see if I've misremembered which one I actually prefer out of the two... nope, greatly prefer the Gbuds.

The question is what will make my wallet hurt in the next coming months, not sure if it's going to end up with just adapters and some IEM's or if I'm getting something else. Thinking of picking up the Linkbuds (not S) next month. 
Then I'm trying to possibly buy some audio-focused TWS's... But where should I spend my money? Final ZE3000? Astell & Kern UW1000? Lypertek Z7? 
Would choose Fokus Pro in a heartbeat based on all I've heard, but since they're not available here I'm looking at what actually is.


----------



## JoshG1217

Juturna said:


> Also thinking of selling my AZ60's... they're just collecting dust since I got the Galaxy Bud Pro's, and when I try them out to see if I've misremembered which one I actually prefer out of the two... nope, greatly prefer the Gbuds.
> 
> The question is what will make my wallet hurt in the next coming months, not sure if it's going to end up with just adapters and some IEM's or if I'm getting something else. Thinking of picking up the Linkbuds (not S) next month.
> Then I'm trying to possibly buy some audio-focused TWS's... But where should I spend my money? Final ZE3000? Astell & Kern UW1000? Lypertek Z7?
> Would choose Fokus Pro in a heartbeat based on all I've heard, but since they're not available here I'm looking at what actually is.


The X7, and ze300 are both downgrades from xm4 and az60. Why don't you like the 60? Have you done eq wirh power amp? I find them very dynamic. I had an original buds and they were okay, but I haven't heard the new ones. That was like 2019.


----------



## Juturna

JoshG1217 said:


> The X7, and ze300 are both downgrades from xm4 and az60. Why don't you like the 60? Have you done eq wirh power amp? I find them very dynamic. I had an original buds and they were okay, but I haven't heard the new ones. That was like 2019.


Really? I didn't enjoy the XM4's at all soundwise, one of my biggest letdowns in TWS's.

I don't dislike the AZ60s, I just don't like them as much as the Galaxy Buds honestly. The Galaxy Buds Pros I can just listen to as they are, they have pretty much the perfect tuning (which still doesn't mean they sound as good as I can imagine an earbud sounding) to my ears, and the AZ60s I have to EQ with Wavelet and I still have a hard time getting anything that sounds as "right" to my ears as the GBPs do.


----------



## maor26

jant71 said:


> Stock tips right? I see AT are coming with different length tips. Not great if they feel like they are gonna fall out. I used the AT for sports and everything with no issues just with regular size tips. They also lowered the quality of the bass. I did find I liked the AT tips on other TWS though but not optimal for CKS50TW though. JVC, Sony, and Final do okay for tips. Other japan brands like Nuarl, AT, and Yamaha shoot themselves in the foot as far as tips. Nuarl and Yamaha were worse. Boomy lower quality bass on the Nuarl worse than the AT so those had to be changed. Yamaha, like a page or two back, you can get the sterile tinny sound someone said they had "no soul" but they can. Actually got rid of the Nuarl due to them having quality and clarity once you get the right tips but they took the soul and personality out of them. I thought the TW-E5B has the soul and emotion the Nuarl lacked but not with the stock tips that are all wrong and usually kills the low end. Most TWS benefit but some are in dire need of aftermarket tips.
> 
> Anyone seen this posted by FiIO?
> 
> Kinda scares me. Don't know about anybody else? What drivers are they gonna put in there if it could be as low as $140. Put 4332's in there so you can't then go cheap on drivers. Put worthy drivers in there. Even GeekFly charges $299. I hope they don't let us down. Gotta be there with the best not MTW3 level with less features. Certainly fine but not enough for the recipe. HQ amping and multiple drivers should give us better than the A&K and perhaps the SQ crown for a while. Plus they have the adapters as competition so you can put some fine earphones on them. What is the point to make a TWS that isn't top notch when they make such an option. Hopefully it is priced more as a market disruptor and is actually top notch SQ.


Fiio usually have good stuff with a decent price, so I believe they can deliver quality tws earbuds.
That said, they're still new to these, so I guess we'll see soon (they say the release date is around july).
Here's another picture


----------



## Fleeple

maor26 said:


> Fiio usually have good stuff with a decent price, so I believe they can deliver quality tws earbuds.
> That said, they're still new to these, so I guess we'll see soon (they say the release date is around july).
> Here's another picture


Those physical buttons.....oof. I hope y'all like them tho 😊 whenever they release. They do look really pretty, at the very least.


----------



## DigDub

Sam L said:


> I just picked up an fp9 for the transmitter feature and the mic(?) I'm hoping that the mic quality for calls is good? There's not a lot of mentions in this thread of the fp9 (4 came up in a thread search). How effective is the anc? I'll be doing some long flights and can see myself using the transmitter but if the anc is lacking, I'll probably end up using a 3.5mm cord into the sony xm4 or bose 700's


I would say the ANC is good, maybe a notch below the Sony xm4. Call quality is good, the other party can hear me on a busy street.


----------



## JoshG1217

Juturna said:


> Really? I didn't enjoy the XM4's at all soundwise, one of my biggest letdowns in TWS's.
> 
> I don't dislike the AZ60s, I just don't like them as much as the Galaxy Buds honestly. The Galaxy Buds Pros I can just listen to as they are, they have pretty much the perfect tuning (which still doesn't mean they sound as good as I can imagine an earbud sounding) to my ears, and the AZ60s I have to EQ with Wavelet and I still have a hard time getting anything that sounds as "right" to my ears as the GBPs do.


I have no idea how anything sounds with stock tips and without EQ. I do a V EQ in Power Amp and use Sedna tips on everything. Stock tips are almost always trash and most headphones sound Boring to me without EQ, so my impressions are based on customization. I've purchase 30 plus sets, and all the big names and sent them all back. I really wanted to like the ZE 3000, but couldn't get a decent seal without comply and comply just kills the SQ.


----------



## tiagopinto

Tenlow said:


> I've played around with the Linkbuds S today (for only roughly two hours though) as a friend of mine has just bought them.
> 
> Couple of first impressions/questions (but not more than that):
> 
> ...



Where did you see the MTW3 for 187€? Uh-oh...


----------



## tiagopinto

erockg said:


> Stability.



Wow. Didn’t expect that. I’d do otherwise. Always.


----------



## Tenlow (May 27, 2022)

tiagopinto said:


> Where did you see the MTW3 for 187€? Uh-oh...


They've been on sale here twice already at a very big store here in Germany called "Euronics" and I don't have any clue why, honestly. Everywhere else they're still at 249€ and they've already had them for 187€ and 192€. I thought it was a mistake first and ordered anyway but was notified to pick them up for that price so I don't want to complain to much about it 

At first, I wanted to compare them to the B&O EX but haven't purchased them so far as I don't think that they're 212€ "better" than the MTW3  I will still try them at some point in the future but for now I'm not in a rush.


----------



## tiagopinto

Tenlow said:


> They've been on sale here twice already at a very big store here in Germany called "Euronics" and I don't have any clue why, honestly. Everywhere else they're still at 249€ and they've already had them for 187€ and 192€. I thought it was a mistake first and ordered anyway but was notified to pick them up for that price so I don't want to complain to much about it
> 
> At first, I wanted to compare them to the B&O EX but haven't purchased them so far as I don't think that they're 212€ "better" than the MTW3  I will still try them at some point in the future but for now I'm not in a rush.



We have Euronics here too but none of that in their website. They’re more of an appliance store here. Nothing relevant sound wise. 

I checked euronics.de but it’s at 249 now. If you (or anyone) see them again below 200, please shoot me a message. Thx.


----------



## jant71

maor26 said:


> Fiio usually have good stuff with a decent price, so I believe they can deliver quality tws earbuds.
> That said, they're still new to these, so I guess we'll see soon (they say the release date is around july).
> Here's another picture


Still the recipe - two Hi-Res codecs, two Knowles and one dynamic, QCC5141, and a pair of AK4332's powering them better equal more than "good". Like having a HEMI engine and getting 275HP. Good but you expect more.


----------



## Tenlow

Tenlow said:


> They've been on sale here twice already at a very big store here in Germany called "Euronics" and I don't have any clue why, honestly. Everywhere else they're still at 249€ and they've already had them for 187€ and 192€. I thought it was a mistake first and ordered anyway but was notified to pick them up for that price so I don't want to complain to much about it
> 
> At first, I wanted to compare them to the B&O EX but haven't purchased them so far as I don't think that they're 212€ "better" than the MTW3  I will still try them at some point in the future but for now I'm not in a rush.


I found it here:

https://www.mydealz.de/share-deal/1988835


----------



## subguy812

Tenlow said:


> At first, I wanted to compare them to the B&O EX but haven't purchased them so far as I don't think that they're 212€ "better" than the MTW3  I will still try them at some point in the future but for now I'm not in a rush.


Difficult to say something is better if you haven't tried them. I returned the TW3 and am happy with the EX. No one could ever tell you if they are 212 better, too subjective.


----------



## Tenlow

subguy812 said:


> Difficult to say something is better if you haven't tried them. I returned the TW3 and am happy with the EX. No one could ever tell you if they are 212 better, too subjective.


True, however, I personally prefer the MTW3 to the B&O EQ e.g., so that's that. I'm not saying that the EX won't possibly be better than the MTW3, they could likely be, no question about it!

I just highly doubt that they will be worth the _additional_ 212€ _for me_ given how much I like the MTW3 at the moment as that's more than double the price. 

That said, I also bought the EQ at 270 back then, so I might buy the EX at some point in the future when I can find a similar deal on them somewhere


----------



## jant71 (May 27, 2022)

Easy to say it as a fact.  399 vs. 187 they not going to be 212 better. The willingness to overlook and pay is the subjective part. We have a few who have had both and like the EX better. How many would say 212 Euro better?


Anyone trying these out...


----------



## Tenlow

jant71 said:


> Easy to say it as a fact.  399 vs. 187 they not going to be 212 better. The willingness to overlook and pay is the subjective part. We have a few who have had both and like the EX better. How many would say 212 Euro better?


It was just my personal opinion, not a fact  I said that the EX could likely be better than the MTW3. I'm just trying to talk myself into not spending 400€ again for another set 

Then again, the MTW3 for me (!) are the best pair of TWS I've tested so far, so that makes it easier to not spend another 400 for something that might (maybe) be a bit better  

I never thought the EQ were worth 400 as well btw, as much as I liked and still like them. 400€ is very expensive for a TWS that might have a lifespan of sometimes 2 to 4 years max. 

I will try the EX at some point, that's for sure, though


----------



## jant71

Tenlow said:


> It was just my personal opinion, not a fact  I said that the EX could likely be better than the MTW3. I'm just trying to talk myself into not spending 400€ again for another set
> 
> Then again, the MTW3 for me (!) are the best pair of TWS I've tested so far, so that makes it easier to not spend another 400 for something that might (maybe) be a bit better
> 
> ...



You could try those eartips I edited into my previous post.  I learned about them from a comment that said with those tips the MTW3 sounded better than the EX.


----------



## Fleeple

jant71 said:


> Easy to say it as a fact.  399 vs. 187 they not going to be 212 better. The willingness to overlook and pay is the subjective part. We have a few who have had both and like the EX better. How many would say 212 Euro better?
> 
> 
> Anyone trying these out...


They do look interesting.....are they going to be better than spinfit in any way? They look like they might be a shorter tip but otherwise I'm trying to figure out why someone would buy them over spinfits.


----------



## helmutcheese (May 27, 2022)

Because SpinFits are thin (lacking in density) and so poor for ANC buds if you actually want to use the ANC.

The MAX are a new release, so I do not have them but have the others in the range and I need tips about 14mm so not many do that bar SpinFit/Azla.


----------



## jant71 (May 27, 2022)

Fleeple said:


> They do look interesting.....are they going to be better than spinfit in any way? They look like they might be a shorter tip but otherwise I'm trying to figure out why someone would buy them over spinfits.


I don't own any spinfits actually. Tried them early and never went back. I am an AZLA tip owner though. There are plenty who have both brands and like them both for certain phones. Azla winning here and there and Spinfit winning here and there. Other brands as well have some real good and well liked tips.

Who is gonna try Intime's iReep (intime reflective emission ear piece) when they drop next month??


----------



## subguy812

Tenlow said:


> It was just my personal opinion, not a fact  I said that the EX could likely be better than the MTW3. I'm just trying to talk myself into not spending 400€ again for another set
> 
> Then again, the MTW3 for me (!) are the best pair of TWS I've tested so far, so that makes it easier to not spend another 400 for something that might (maybe) be a bit better
> 
> ...


Obviously, you got my point. It is subjective, this whole hobby is. I have been reviewing for many years now and have been saying the same thing, it is all subjective. I can only tell you what I hear, and no one can dispute what I hear. Since the pandemic it has become very dilute. Everyone is interviewing and they have muddied the waters to "clear, solid" advice. 

Everyone's usage and needs are different. I am almost  strictly a sound quality guy. The other features are nice, but okay. When the TW3 didn't work for me fit wide, I had to go on hunt for something that did. The EX has filled that void. Again this is a wireless option, my expectations aren't near as high as they are with TOTL wired options.


----------



## Fleeple

helmutcheese said:


> Because SpinFits are thin (lacking in density) and so poor for ANC buds if you actually want to use the ANC.
> 
> The MAX are a new release, so I do not have them but have the others in the range and I need tips about 14mm so not many do that bar SpinFit/Azla.


That does help a lot, thank you 😄 I'm even more curious about these now.


----------



## Linus Jian (May 27, 2022)

jant71 said:


> Stock tips right? I see AT are coming with different length tips. Not great if they feel like they are gonna fall out. I used the AT for sports and everything with no issues just with regular size tips. They also lowered the quality of the bass. I did find I liked the AT tips on other TWS though but not optimal for CKS50TW though. JVC, Sony, and Final do okay for tips. Other japan brands like Nuarl, AT, and Yamaha shoot themselves in the foot as far as tips. Nuarl and Yamaha were worse. Boomy lower quality bass on the Nuarl worse than the AT so those had to be changed. Yamaha, like a page or two back, you can get the sterile tinny sound someone said they had "no soul" but they can. Actually got rid of the Nuarl due to them having quality and clarity once you get the right tips but they took the soul and personality out of them. I thought the TW-E5B has the soul and emotion the Nuarl lacked but not with the stock tips that are all wrong and usually kills the low end. Most TWS benefit but some are in dire need of aftermarket tips.
> 
> Anyone seen this posted by FiIO?
> 
> Kinda scares me. Don't know about anybody else? What drivers are they gonna put in there if it could be as low as $140. Put 4332's in there so you can't then go cheap on drivers. Put worthy drivers in there. Even GeekFly charges $299. I hope they don't let us down. Gotta be there with the best not MTW3 level with less features. Certainly fine but not enough for the recipe. HQ amping and multiple drivers should give us better than the A&K and perhaps the SQ crown for a while. Plus they have the adapters as competition so you can put some fine earphones on them. What is the point to make a TWS that isn't top notch when they make such an option. Hopefully it is priced more as a market disruptor and is actually top notch SQ.


Just fyi, drivers are cheap af, even for $1k iems the cost of drivers is as low as $50 -$100


----------



## tonyfiore75

jant71 said:


> Easy to say it as a fact.  399 vs. 187 they not going to be 212 better. The willingness to overlook and pay is the subjective part. We have a few who have had both and like the EX better. How many would say 212 Euro better?
> 
> 
> Anyone trying these out...


These aren't available in the US, right? I tried ordering from their web site but USA wasn't an option for shipping. Or am I missing something? I also find the SpinFits too thin so they don't isolate for me. I like the Sedna stuff. Much thicker. I get the seal I need.


----------



## darveniza

helmutcheese said:


> Because SpinFits are thin (lacking in density) and so poor for ANC buds if you actually want to use the ANC.
> 
> The MAX are a new release, so I do not have them but have the others in the range and I need tips about 14mm so not many do that bar SpinFit/Azla.


The tips that come with the new Sony Lync S are different than the XM4 and seem to be new as I have some Sony IEMs and these type of tips are not included. They dod provide great seal. I tried them with the XM4 and also improve the seal. Assume they Sony "own"


----------



## Sam L

OK. I have an unusual question. Any opinions on a tws with anc that I can wear under my Sony xm4 headphones?


----------



## Blueshound24

TK33 said:


> Have you looked at the Sony Linkbuds (original, not the recently announced Linkbuds S)? They are the best for situational awareness since they don't block any sound at all.  Before I got them, the Samsung Galaxy Buds Live we're my go to for calls and situations where I wanted to hear my surroundings (like biking for example).  I find the Linkbuds to be more balanced for music (more to my liking) and much lighter and comfortable.  They are my new go to for calls but also use them for music when in the office.  Galaxy Buds Live are great as well but I found it to be more V shaped and bass heavy than I liked so I really only used it for calls.  I also have other TWS that I use for music such as the PI7.
> 
> Btw I was very happy to find my Linkbuds sitting on my desk when I went back into my office.  If they were lost, I would've bought a new set right away.




I found a deal on some Ebay refurbished Linkbuds in case anyone is interested. At this price I'm going to give them a whirl, and they have free returns if they don't suit me. 

I agree with your description of the Galaxy Buds Live of them being too bass heavy and lacking details. 

I tried the Soundpeats Air3 and really liked the dynamic, detailed, forward sound, and they seemed to really try to get some bass response, but as typical of a earbud with a stem and no silicone ear tip they fell short there. I placed some foam covers over them that gave them a lot more bass, but I think it went a bit too far with too much bass. Plus, they wouldn't fit in the case with the foam covers on anyway.


Sony LinkBuds Truly Wireless Earbuds $82 *EBAY REFURBISHED* / MRSP $180
https://www.ebay.com/itm/313939292787


----------



## FullCircle

jant71 said:


> A bit of a slow day. The new Linkbuds S have a newer 5mm driver now making me think about the speaker tech and remembered about all the stuff we heard about at CES. Of course things are still slow and even shutdown atm so not much in the way of progress. We had new smaller amps coming for portables and the new combo solutions we mentioned earlier when poking fun at Noble and with the new tech they could integrate ANC and all w/o the compromise they say they have to make for a FoKus. So, let's talk some of the new speaker tech. Nice if there are gonna be smaller high SQ amps there should be smaller speakers to go along with them. Sounds Great doing semiconductor speaker tech to really reduce size. As they say you can fit six speakers per side in the space that normally used for one.
> 
> A little from the sounds great speaker info...
> 
> ...



That's a tall order


----------



## erockg

FullCircle said:


> That's a tall order


If you build it, WE WILL COME.


----------



## FullCircle

samandhi said:


> If done properly, once the monitors are returned to the case, they should shut off completely. So after charging they should not drain at all (unless stored for a very long time). My point is that, of the TWS I currently own, I can leave them sit for months with 0 battery drain, other than the initial charging of the monitors when first inserted after use.
> 
> I used to have the Bose Soundsport Free TWS, and they would CONSTANTLY drain the case because they were always on, and trying to connect. This wasn't fixable with a FW update, and Bose never admitted the problem, but after a time, users all over figured it out, and were pretty angry that if you let them sit (in the case) for more than a week or so, they would be totally dead.
> 
> ...



The Falcon Pro was designed with quick connect feature as well, which the trade off is a slow draining charger.

The FoKus Pro, doesn't have that "always searching" feature so the charge case is low maintenance.


----------



## scubaphish (May 27, 2022)

FullCircle said:


> The Falcon Pro was designed with quick connect feature as well, which the trade off is a slow draining charger.
> 
> The FoKus Pro, doesn't have that "always searching" feature so the charge case is low maintenance.


And what, pray tell, does the FoKusH have? 😀

Edit: figured I’d try


----------



## Fleeple

Has anyone looked into these yet, out of curiosity? I don't know much about ashdown as a company. 

https://ashdownmusic.com/products/meters-linx-tws


----------



## FullCircle

scubaphish said:


> And what, pray tell, does the FoKusH have? 😀
> 
> Edit: figured I’d try


----------



## The Socialist Nerd

Right now I use the Shure True Wireless Secure Fit Adapter (https://www.shure.com/en-US/products/accessories/rmce-tw2) with a pair of Campfire Honeydews and wow the sound is totally fine on my Androids (I use a volume booster app to help out) and wow it's pretty solid. Obviously no comparison with my Audeze LCD-2CB's but still much easier to bring around.

I hope to test these Shure wireless adapters with the Audeze Euclids. I will be impressed if it works well with planar IEMs.


----------



## Fleeple (May 28, 2022)

I'd say I'm on about day 4 or 5 with the Sony Linkbuds S, and I've got a few updates for those curious about these:

I've tried a number of earbud tips (stock, sedna, whizzer, noble), but my set of Symbio tips seem to have done the trick. ANC has definitely improved with these added, and bass is a bit punchier without drowning out my own personal preferences.

Connectivity is nearly perfect, although these have possibly ended calls twice; my girlfriend and I have yet to figure out if it was because she may have been leaning against her phone at the time or not.

I have had a handful of situations now where touch controls on one or both earbuds haven't kicked in until I popped them back in the case, and I'm beginning to get somewhat concerned. No software updates yet, so still holding my breath.

Any other thoughts on these would be appreciated, as always, and I hope you're all staying safe 😄


----------



## TK33

Fleeple said:


> I'd say I'm on about day 4 or 5 with the Sony Linkbuds S, and I've got a few updates for those curious about these:
> 
> I've tried a number of earbud tips (stock, sedna, whizzer, noble), but my set of Symbio tips seem to have done the trick. ANC has definitely improved with these added, and bass is a bit punchier without drowning out my own personal preferences.
> 
> ...


For the calls, did you have wide area tap on? Do they have that feature? I had to turn it off on my original Linkbuds because I kept hanging up on people during calls.


----------



## Caipirina

Sam L said:


> OK. I have an unusual question. Any opinions on a tws with anc that I can wear under my Sony xm4 headphones?


The 1MORE Comfobuds mini should fit.


----------



## jant71

FullCircle said:


> That's a tall order



C,mon you know you want to. Think of it. Noble using fancy new tech. What a selling point! Wizard tuning a micro driver array with more precise control with each little driver doing it's own range. New tech, 7 drivers per side in the same space as the triple driver. The wallets would fly open!  Our job to give you more work, LOL! New challenges await!


----------



## jant71

We got an early FW5 product page with some more info... https://fiio-shop.de/en/head-earphones/bluetooth/1319/fiio-fw5

"Product information "FiiO FW5

Built-in independent DAC chip AK4432
High-end Bluetooth chip QCC5141
Hi-Res Wireless Certification
1 Dynamic
2 BA Drivers
10mm Large Size Dynamic driver
DLC Material Diaphragm PU edgeDiaphragm
2 Knowles BA drivers
LHDC/aptX Adaptive supported
22h + comprehensive battery life
Wireless + wired charging solution
Dual Mic cVc call noise reduction
LED independent indicator
Support transparent/low latency mode switching"


----------



## Fleeple

TK33 said:


> For the calls, did you have wide area tap on? Do they have that feature? I had to turn it off on my original Linkbuds because I kept hanging up on people during calls.


I double-checked and the s model doesn't have wide-area tap as a feature, so all good there; thank you though 😊


----------



## dweaver

Have to say since my favorite TWS solution is all Fiio based the new TWS is very intriguing. I also am interested in the Sony Linkbuds S but feel the Fiio will simply crush them sonically speaking. Features and bells and whistles will go to Sony though.


----------



## Fleeple

dweaver said:


> Have to say since my favorite TWS solution is all Fiio based the new TWS is very intriguing. I also am interested in the Sony Linkbuds S but feel the Fiio will simply crush them sonically speaking. Features and bells and whistles will go to Sony though.


Would you say the fiio-based solutions have a decent mic? I've tried one adapter before (the shures) but the mic wasn't the best and the comfort wasn't really there. I'd definitely be curious to try again 😊


----------



## jant71

Think the three most current of interest for me are the Beyer in black...




One review so far but he did say he liked them, at least the bass, best so far and he had recently reviewed the PI7 as well so they seem like they will sound quite good.

The other two are the FiiO and the upcoming AT TWX9.


----------



## JoshG1217

dweaver said:


> Have to say since my favorite TWS solution is all Fiio based the new TWS is very intriguing. I also am interested in the Sony Linkbuds S but feel the Fiio will simply crush them sonically speaking. Features and bells and whistles will go to Sony though.


Using with fd5?


----------



## Fleeple

jant71 said:


> Think the three most current of interest for me are the Beyer in black...
> 
> One review so far but he did say he liked them, at least the bass, best so far and he had recently reviewed the PI7 as well so they seem like they will sound quite good.
> 
> The other two are the FiiO and the upcoming AT TWX9.


Those do look super interesting! Any news on us sellers yet?


----------



## jant71

Fleeple said:


> Those do look super interesting! Any news on us sellers yet?


I think we will know in early June. Not that they are coming that quick but we will find out exactly when.


----------



## dweaver

Fleeple said:


> Would you say the fiio-based solutions have a decent mic? I've tried one adapter before (the shures) but the mic wasn't the best and the comfort wasn't really there. I'd definitely be curious to try again 😊


The mic is OK but not great I think my Gbuds Pro and AZ60 have better mics.



JoshG1217 said:


> Using with fd5?


I have the FH5 paired with the UTWS5.


----------



## Fleeple

dweaver said:


> The mic is OK but not great I think my Gbuds Pro and AZ60 have better mics.
> 
> 
> I have the FH5 paired with the UTWS5.


Thank you 😄


----------



## The1Signature

darveniza said:


> The tips that come with the new Sony Lync S are different than the XM4 and seem to be new as I have some Sony IEMs and these type of tips are not included. They dod provide great seal. I tried them with the XM4 and also improve the seal. Assume they Sony "own"


better than final audio typ e you think?


----------



## stacey (May 28, 2022)

Linus Jian said:


> Just fyi, drivers are cheap af, even for $1k iems the cost of drivers is as low as $50 -$100



Generally the challenge is driver implementation, tuning and design, and with TWS there’s also Bluetooth performance to worry about even with Qualcomm doing all the heavy chip and antenna work. That’s what really sends the bill high, and not the cost of raw materials.


----------



## Not so fat head

I must say, with a good 5 band equalizer, Bowers and Wilkins PI7’s can sound audiophile…
It’s all there, sub-bass, mids, high’s with the proper guitar, violin, piano, cello, upright bass and drum instrument sounds….
I’m so taken with classical right now, that I need to move to some rock!!
Nice 👍


----------



## squyzz

Hi, i'm looking about the Linkbuds S.
I have an earing loss on my left ear so i'd like to know if the android app from Sony (i think Headphones is the app name) has an option to manage the L/R balance.
Thank's


----------



## sgtbilko

jant71 said:


> We got an early FW5 product page with some more info... https://fiio-shop.de/en/head-earphones/bluetooth/1319/fiio-fw5
> 
> "Product information "FiiO FW5
> 
> ...


229 Euros. Not quite the $140-$220 previously mentioned by Fiio.


----------



## Sam L

Not so fat head said:


> I must say, with a good 5 band equalizer, Bowers and Wilkins PI7’s can sound audiophile…
> It’s all there, sub-bass, mids, high’s with the proper guitar, violin, piano, cello, upright bass and drum instrument sounds….
> I’m so taken with classical right now, that I need to move to some rock!!
> Nice 👍


Damn, i'm on iphone nowadays. I'm guessing no app w/ eq yet for the pi7?


----------



## clerkpalmer

So am I the only one with vampire case drain in my EX? Really don’t want to return them as they sound soooo good.


----------



## tombrisbane

clerkpalmer said:


> So am I the only one with vampire case drain in my EX? Really don’t want to return them as they sound soooo good.


Mine was similar - removed them completely from the app, added them back.  Better now, doesn’t last as long at other cases but not disappearing at 50% per day.


----------



## jant71

clerkpalmer said:


> So am I the only one with vampire case drain in my EX? Really don’t want to return them as they sound soooo good.


Have you confirmed it? That it really gives you low battery in the buds? Or is it reading wrong. Some buds have had that where it is not reading and reporting right. 



tombrisbane said:


> Mine was similar - removed them completely from the app, added them back.  Better now, doesn’t last as long at other cases but not disappearing at 50% per day.


Hmmm. Does seem like it could be app stuff.


----------



## tombrisbane

jant71 said:


> Hmmm. Does seem like it could be app stuff.


The ‘LE’ seemed to be getting stuck on, certainly could have been coincidental though.


----------



## clerkpalmer

jant71 said:


> Have you confirmed it? That it really gives you low battery in the buds? Or is it reading wrong. Some buds have had that where it is not reading and reporting right.
> 
> 
> Hmmm. Does seem like it could be app stuff.


Confirmed. Vampire case drain. Loses about 20 percent per day just sitting there. As far as the disparity it seems less of an issue.


----------



## clerkpalmer

tombrisbane said:


> Mine was similar - removed them completely from the app, added them back.  Better now, doesn’t last as long at other cases but not disappearing at 50% per day.


So weird. My Bose case NEVER drains. Thing is epic. Not sure - the noble guy mentioned above that “always looking” feature may lead to case drain and it was a trade off?


----------



## jant71

clerkpalmer said:


> Confirmed. Vampire case drain. Loses about 20 percent per day just sitting there. As far as the disparity it seems less of an issue.


Did you ask them about it? In case they are doing something. They should know best and tell you "send them back" or we know and "will have a fix" or whatever. For the price you pay it should be resolved to your satisfaction.


----------



## clerkpalmer

jant71 said:


> Did you ask them about it? In case they are doing something. They should know best and tell you "send them back" or we know and "will have a fix" or whatever. For the price you pay it should be resolved to your satisfaction.


Yes but they only offered an exchange or return. On the exchange it takes forever which really annoys me. Like 3 to 4 weeks.


----------



## jant71

Let's boycott B&O till they meet our demands!!!!


----------



## clerkpalmer

jant71 said:


> Let's boycott B&O till they meet our demands!!!!


A simple option for a charge hold exchange would be sufficient but pitchforks work too.


----------



## jant71 (May 29, 2022)

clerkpalmer said:


> A simple option for a charge hold exchange would be sufficient but pitchforks work too.


Going dark fast there! Picket signs to pitch forks and I'm assuming torches as well. Take way way longer if you burn stuff down. 

I'm guessing you are out of return period?? You could buy another and return the first one. If you had the $$ that way would not have the long wait like an exchange. You'd just wait for the refund on the first one.


----------



## clerkpalmer

jant71 said:


> Going dark fast there! Picket signs to pitch forks and I'm assuming torches as well. Take way way longer if you burn stuff down.
> 
> I'm guessing you are out of return period?? You could buy another and return the first one. If you had the $$ that way would not have the long wait like an exchange. You'd just wait for the refund on the first one.


I am not. I could do that. I have a return ticket in. Of course it’s been 5 days and they haven’t “accepted” my return which only adds to my frustration with their customer service. But yes, that’s a good idea although maybe I thought these were sold out?


----------



## erockg

clerkpalmer said:


> I am not. I could do that. I have a return ticket in. Of course it’s been 5 days and they haven’t “accepted” my return which only adds to my frustration with their customer service. But yes, that’s a good idea although maybe I thought these were sold out?


My EX had drain, but it seems to be an app misread and maybe a drain at times.  I reset, repaired and removed from my iPhone and other devices.  Set them back up and haven't suffered noticeably since.  I do drop them on the charger every day.  Charged up yesterday afternoon and this morning they were still 100% all around.  B&O has the worst return/exchange process.  They do come through, but the waiting is the hardest part.  I'm sure you've done all those steps to reset.  If they're draining at a 20 click after fully charging them, return them.  Sadly, Amazon and the like do not carry them yet so we're bound to B&O online


----------



## clerkpalmer

erockg said:


> My EX had drain, but it seems to be an app misread and maybe a drain at times.  I reset, repaired and removed from my iPhone and other devices.  Set them back up and haven't suffered noticeably since.  I do drop them on the charger every day.  Charged up yesterday afternoon and this morning they were still 100% all around.  B&O has the worst return/exchange process.  They do come through, but the waiting is the hardest part.  I'm sure you've done all those steps to reset.  If they're draining at a 20 click after fully charging them, return them.  Sadly, Amazon and the like do not carry them yet so we're bound to B&O online


I’ll try the full reset repair again. They really are the ideal all around TWS. Like APP on steroids.


----------



## erockg

clerkpalmer said:


> I’ll try the full reset repair again. They really are the ideal all around TWS. Like APP on steroids.


Using mine right now   Love the soundstage very much.  Definitely in my top 5, maybe top 3.


----------



## clerkpalmer

erockg said:


> Using mine right now   Love the soundstage very much.  Definitely in my top 5, maybe top 3.


What’s the current top 5?


----------



## erockg

clerkpalmer said:


> What’s the current top 5?


Not in this order but ya know:  Noble Fokus Pro, Beoplay EX, Astell&Kern UW100, B&W PI7, Shure TW2 with SeeAudio Midnight... this week.  Also, playing around with the Sony Linkbuds S, Earin A-3, Sennheiser MTW3.  APP are still around here too, but only get love when I need to share audio on the Apple TV with my wife.  I had a rewards credit at Audio46.com and grabbed a pair of the Noble Falcon ANC to try for a great price.  Expectations are low, but maybe I'll be pleasantly surprised


----------



## Not so fat head

erockg said:


> Not in this order but ya know:  Noble Fokus Pro, Beoplay EX, Astell&Kern UW100, B&W PI7, Shure TW2 with SeeAudio Midnight... this week.  Also, playing around with the Sony Linkbuds S, Earin A-3, Sennheiser MTW3.  APP are still around here too, but only get love when I need to share audio on the Apple TV with my wife.  I had a rewards credit at Audio46.com and grabbed a pair of the Noble Falcon ANC to try for a great price.  Expectations are low, but maybe I'll be pleasantly surprised


Nice collection!!


----------



## darkgod5

So, out of all the TWS earbuds I've tried, the Sony XM4s are by far, BY FAR the best. Though, there are a couple caveats:

1) EQ is mandatory for good tuning. The Sony app comes with a graphic EQ which is actually pretty good. I used the treble boost setting but take the 16k band back down to 0 gain. However, now I use Poweramp for my Android phone and use parametric EQ settings that AutoEQ set for IEF neutral (from Crinacle's graph tool)

2) The tips it comes with are only foam (or some hybrid composed of) and, like all Sony IEMs tips, are *absolutely awful *as they get rid of most treble (and all the sparkle) and butcher the heck out of detail retrieval. So aftermarket (silicone) tips are also mandatory. But the nozzle actually fits fine every aftermarket tip I've tried (since there's a notch in the nozzle and it's decently long for a TWS) including Final E and Deep Mounts

But anyway, after all that's done I would put the Sony's in the range of $100-150 wired IEMs. Just before the 7Hz Timeless but comfortably after the Moondrop Arias.


----------



## JoshG1217

darkgod5 said:


> So, out of all the TWS earbuds I've tried, the Sony XM4s are by far, BY FAR the best. Though, there are a couple caveats:
> 
> 1) EQ is mandatory for good tuning. The Sony app comes with a graphic EQ which is actually pretty good. I used the treble boost setting but take the 16k band back down to 0 gain. However, now I use Poweramp for my Android phone and use parametric EQ settings that AutoEQ set for IEF neutral (from Crinacle's graph tool)
> 
> ...


I agree with that. I've tried virtually all of them and even Just got the technics but after further use, the Sony just sound fuller and more musical. I've sent everything else back: gemeni, lu,pi7, eq, az60, momentum, evo, and the list goes on. Fokus sounded slightly better but no anc and the fit was weird for me because of the giant ass nozzles
 If you haven't tried the xm4 wirh sedna tips yet, I encourage you to do so


----------



## Fleeple

JoshG1217 said:


> I agree with that. I've tried virtually all of them and even Just got the technics but after further use, the Sony just sound fuller and more musical. I've sent everything else back: gemeni, lu,pi7, eq, az60, momentum, evo, and the list goes on. Fokus sounded slightly better but no anc and the fit was weird for me because of the giant ass nozzles
> If you haven't tried the xm4 wirh sedna tips yet, I encourage you to do so


Do you have any recommendations if the xm4's are just too big for your ears/too unstable? Those were the start of my journey (admittedly with the provided earbud tips), but they just felt so uncomfortable so quickly and they kept falling out.


----------



## darkgod5

JoshG1217 said:


> I agree with that. I've tried virtually all of them and even Just got the technics but after further use, the Sony just sound fuller and more musical. I've sent everything else back: gemeni, lu,pi7, eq, az60, momentum, evo, and the list goes on. Fokus sounded slightly better but no anc and the fit was weird for me because of the giant ass nozzles
> If you haven't tried the xm4 wirh sedna tips yet, I encourage you to do so


Ah, yes, the Fokus are one of the few TWS I haven't tried since I didn't want to mess with their return policy... But I can imagine they sound very good, especially with EQ.

The Edifier Neobuds Pros on the other hand were definitely not as good as they were made out to be. Below even the Samsung Galaxy Buds.

Yep. I tried with the Sedna tips. They work fine. I generally settle on Final E or Spinfit CP100 and for the Sony I settled on the Final E tips but that's purely personal preference. Any silicone tip will work fine and be leagues better than the included tips.


----------



## assassin10000

squyzz said:


> Hi, i'm looking about the Linkbuds S.
> I have an earing loss on my left ear so i'd like to know if the android app from Sony (i think Headphones is the app name) has an option to manage the L/R balance.
> Thank's



Most Android versions should have a master left/right volume slider in settings. I think usually under "accessibility".



Fleeple said:


> Do you have any recommendations if the xm4's are just too big for your ears/too unstable? Those were the start of my journey (admittedly with the provided earbud tips), but they just felt so uncomfortable so quickly and they kept falling out.



I found them to stick out too much with the stock tips. I have shallow ears tho. I switched to de-cored APP foams an got way better fit and better sound (wider bore).









I also found not rotating them back as far helped with fit too. Instead of twisting them backwards 45-60 degrees, I have them somewhere between 60-90.


----------



## Fleeple

assassin10000 said:


> Most Android versions should have a master left/right volume slider in settings. I think usually under "accessibility".
> 
> 
> 
> ...


So you would say that shallow ears are best suited to foam, and not silicon for them? I'd be curious to give them another try but I kind of hate foam (thank you for your patience and answers with pictures, for the record 😊).


----------



## assassin10000

Fleeple said:


> So you would say that shallow ears are best suited to foam, and not silicon for them? I'd be curious to give them another try but I kind of hate foam (thank you for your patience and answers with pictures, for the record 😊).



Preference. Any tws length silicone tip would do the same. Azla has a few and others as well.

I like foam tips that have a 'smooth' outer coating or skin. Shure black 'olives' were my first choice when I had shure and later westone iems. Followed by 'ball' shaped foams, which unfortunately don't have the skin.

After that are these decored APP tips and/or tennmak 'strong' foams. All are dependant on fit.

If you have more 'standard' length or deep ear canals the 4.5mm bore tennmaks may work better. For silicone tips you may want to check the xm4 thread for recommendations.


----------



## Fleeple

assassin10000 said:


> Preference. Any tws length silicone tip would do the same. Azla has a few and others as well.
> 
> I like foam tips that have a 'smooth' outer coating or skin. Shure black 'olives' were my first choice when I had shure and later westone iems. Followed by 'ball' shaped foams, which unfortunately don't have the skin.
> 
> ...


Thank you kindly, I'll give that a look 😄


----------



## darveniza

clerkpalmer said:


> So am I the only one with vampire case drain in my EX? Really don’t want to return them as they sound soooo good.


Nope I think is a recurring issue


----------



## JoshG1217

Fleeple said:


> Do you have any recommendations if the xm4's are just too big for your ears/too unstable? Those were the start of my journey (admittedly with the provided earbud tips), but they just felt so uncomfortable so quickly and they kept falling out.


Maybe the Evo? They were decent and have a small footprint. Included tips are trash though so use something else that get them fully inserted into your ear. The case didn't fit decent tips though so I kept having to take the off to charge. The az60 are really good, bur I Still prefer xm4


----------



## darveniza

erockg said:


> My EX had drain, but it seems to be an app misread and maybe a drain at times.  I reset, repaired and removed from my iPhone and other devices.  Set them back up and haven't suffered noticeably since.  I do drop them on the charger every day.  Charged up yesterday afternoon and this morning they were still 100% all around.  B&O has the worst return/exchange process.  They do come through, but the waiting is the hardest part.  I'm sure you've done all those steps to reset.  If they're draining at a 20 click after fully charging them, return them.  Sadly, Amazon and the like do not carry them yet so we're bound to B&O online


Will do the test. But EQ also does the same


----------



## jant71

Deal of the Day - JBL for Memorial Day get a new Live Free 2, black or blue for $50 off...


----------



## Fleeple

JoshG1217 said:


> Maybe the Evo? They were decent and have a small footprint. Included tips are trash though so use something else that get them fully inserted into your ear. The case didn't fit decent tips though so I kept having to take the off to charge. The az60 are really good, bur I Still prefer xm4


The evo was great in a lot of ways, they just kept falling out; thank you though 😊 az60 was amazing but the weird ridge they left on the back just digs into my ear something fierce; my ears are stupidly sensitive.


----------



## helmutcheese

squyzz said:


> Hi, i'm looking about the Linkbuds S.
> I have an earing loss on my left ear so i'd like to know if the android app from Sony (i think Headphones is the app name) has an option to manage the L/R balance.
> Thank's


Try PoweAmp it has a balance, and you could save the pre-set (EQ/Tone/Balance etc) per earbuds or globally for all your earbuds


----------



## Linus Jian

stacey said:


> Generally the challenge is driver implementation, tuning and design, and with TWS there’s also Bluetooth performance to worry about even with Qualcomm doing all the heavy chip and antenna work. That’s what really sends the bill high, and not the cost of raw materials.


Exactly, that's why I posted the reply, the $150 msrp doesn't mean you can't have decent drivers in them, how to price in tuning & implementation is very subjective, if noble is the only one making multi-driver good sq tws then they can even charge $500, but chifi company like fiio can probably make something similar that only cost $150,


----------



## jant71 (May 29, 2022)

Linus Jian said:


> Exactly, that's why I posted the reply, the $150 msrp doesn't mean you can't have decent drivers in them, how to price in tuning & implementation is very subjective, if noble is the only one making multi-driver good sq tws then they can even charge $500, but chifi company like fiio can probably make something similar that only cost $150,


Moot point because they are gonna cost more. It was more than just the drivers anyhow cause they pay fees to use Snapdragon sound, and LHDC, and batteries cost money as well as a Qi module for the case. Two AK4332 amps etc. Other than that my response was why? Mifo's latest cost $249, GeekFly $299, Simgot TWS $249 so other branded Chi-Fi is not cheap. Why would FiiO's be $100 less with even more going for them than other Chi-Fi.

Like @stacey said, it doesn't relate to the cost of the drivers. A Geekfly triple hybrid wired earphone is $60 but a Geekfly triple hybrid true wireless is $299.


----------



## JoshG1217

Fleeple said:


> The evo was great in a lot of ways, they just kept falling out; thank you though 😊 az60 was amazing but the weird ridge they left on the back just digs into my ear something fierce; my ears are stupidly sensitive.


Gemeni was pretty close in sound quality to Xm4. I almost kept them. I found them pretty comfortable. I liked the ze3000 but they were tough to stay seated and the shape is different so may bot work for you either. See If you like the gemeni. Without anc they sound terrible though. Frankly without after market tips, not a single tws sounds good. Fokus was the only one where I thought stock tips were okay, but still used sednas


----------



## Fleeple (May 29, 2022)

JoshG1217 said:


> Gemeni was pretty close in sound quality to Xm4. I almost kept them. I found them pretty comfortable. I liked the ze3000 but they were tough to stay seated and the shape is different so may bot work for you either. See If you like the gemeni. Without anc they sound terrible though. Frankly without after market tips, not a single tws sounds good. Fokus was the only one where I thought stock tips were okay, but still used sednas


I gave the gemeni a try (I've tried most honestly 😅 they're all in my signature), and they gave me the phantom feeling of falling out CONSTANTLY. I did love the sound, I will absolutely agree, but between the feeling and just how cheap the whole thing felt for the price (the case and the buds both felt so flimsy), I couldn't justify them. As for the ze3000....they look great but I can't live without pass-through (I wear these at work).


----------



## stacey (May 30, 2022)

Linus Jian said:


> Exactly, that's why I posted the reply, the $150 msrp doesn't mean you can't have decent drivers in them, how to price in tuning & implementation is very subjective, if noble is the only one making multi-driver good sq tws then they can even charge $500, but chifi company like fiio can probably make something similar that only cost $150,


But then you’re likely paying pennies to the poor people that have to tune that TWS to get to that point, compromising audio quality. Either that or only enable one driver and market the TWS as a multi driver setup or skip Qualcomm (or any other proven chips), compromising connection quality. There’s a price to pay to get to that low low pricepoint. 

Otherwise you might as well be selling counterfeit AirPods, the functionality will likely be around that.


----------



## jant71

Fleeple said:


> I gave the gemeni a try (I've tried most honestly 😅 they're all in my signature), and they gave me the phantom feeling of falling out CONSTANTLY. I did love the sound, I will absolutely agree, but between the feeling and just how cheap the whole thing felt for the price (the case and the buds both felt so flimsy), I couldn't justify them. As for the ze3000....they look great but I can't live without pass-through (I wear these at work).


What!  It seems every single thing gives some sort of problem.  You might need to keep trying out new tips or new ears! Need isolation?? Maybe something like the Cleer ARC which are not in the ear so they won't hurt or fall out.


----------



## JoshG1217

Fleeple said:


> I gave the gemeni a try (I've tried most honestly 😅 they're all in my signature), and they gave me the phantom feeling of falling out CONSTANTLY. I did love the sound, I will absolutely agree, but between the feeling and just how cheap the whole thing felt for the price (the case and the buds both felt so flimsy), I couldn't justify them. As for the ze3000....they look great but I can't live without pass-through (I wear these at work).


Maybe try the xelastic tips? They are a bit stickier. Those and the sedna lights are part of my gym rotation as I feel thst they keep the iem in my ear slightly better than regular sednas.


----------



## Steve Dave (Jun 16, 2022)

Hello,
Was about to buy the Edifier TWS1 Pro when I saw the SoundPEATS Sonic Pro on sale for £26/$33 at a UK supplier.
If I remove the different sound characteristics from consideration are the Sonic Pro worth it over the TW1S Pro at that price?

Thanks.

Edit: Bought the Sonic Pros and will probably be returning them due to constant background hiss/white noise.
Not read any other owners or reviewers mention it so might be a faulty pair.
Otherwise sound ok but had to max out the EQ to get noticeable bass out of them.

Edit2: I have got to say Soundpeats customer service was top of the range, resolved my issue quickly and without any hassle.


----------



## Fleeple

jant71 said:


> What!  It seems every single thing gives some sort of problem.  You might need to keep trying out new tips or new ears! Need isolation?? Maybe something like the Cleer ARC which are not in the ear so they won't hurt or fall out.


No they really do 😂 although the linkbuds s is seeming more and more like my winner at this point. I'm definitely looking for isolation or I'd just give the oladance a shot, but thank you 😊 I'm just a very demanding individual 😅.


----------



## Fleeple

JoshG1217 said:


> Maybe try the xelastic tips? They are a bit stickier. Those and the sedna lights are part of my gym rotation as I feel thst they keep the iem in my ear slightly better than regular sednas.


Xelastec tips are what I've got in my linkbuds s now, and they do indeed feel better 😊 would you say the mic on the Gemini is any good? If yes, I might give them another try.....


----------



## JoshG1217

Fleeple said:


> I gave the gemeni a try (I've tried most honestly 😅 they're all in my signature), and they gave me the phantom feeling of falling out CONSTANTLY. I did love the sound, I will absolutely agree, but between the feeling and just how cheap the whole thing felt for the price (the case and the buds both felt so flimsy), I couldn't justify them. As for the ze3000....they look great but I can't live without pass-through (I wear these at work).


Maybe try the xelastic tips? They are a bit stickier. Those and the sedna lights are part of my gym rotation as I feel thst they keep the iem in my ear slightly better than regular sednas.


Fleeple said:


> Xelastec tips are what I've got in my linkbuds s now, and they do indeed feel better 😊 would you say the mic on the Gemini is any good? If yes, I might give them another try.....


I don't think I ever used them to call... maybe once. Didn't get any complaints.


----------



## Fleeple

JoshG1217 said:


> Maybe try the xelastic tips? They are a bit stickier. Those and the sedna lights are part of my gym rotation as I feel thst they keep the iem in my ear slightly better than regular sednas.
> 
> I don't think I ever used them to call... maybe once. Didn't get any complaints.


I'll give them a look again, thank you 😊


----------



## Juturna

I got bamboozled by a Reddit comment that said that the CCA BTX BT Adapters worked with regular 2-pin earbuds without doing the same mod that you need to do on the KZ AZ09 Pro, so I decided to buy them since heck, I won a €30 gift card from Amazon, so I paid less than €20 with my own money....
Now i'm watching video reviews and I realized that... apparently that person was very incorrect about that.

What would you guys do in my situation:

1) Just return the goshdarn things before I open them and get my money back.
2) Get some KZ/CCA IEM's and just roll with it and see if anything sounds worthwhile to my ears
3) Despite being a clumsy ****er with two left thumbs (figuratively speaking, of course), try to actually do the mod myself and hope that I manage to avoid killing both the adapter and/or myself?

Kinda didn't have the money to completely go all in on a more expensive adapter if I don't end up enjoying the whole thing at all, so was going to test the waters like this first, but now I feel slightly discouraged that I cheaped out lol.


----------



## jant71 (May 30, 2022)

Juturna said:


> I got bamboozled by a Reddit comment that said that the CCA BTX BT Adapters worked with regular 2-pin earbuds without doing the same mod that you need to do on the KZ AZ09 Pro, so I decided to buy them since heck, I won a €30 gift card from Amazon, so I paid less than €20 with my own money....
> Now i'm watching video reviews and I realized that... apparently that person was very incorrect about that.
> 
> What would you guys do in my situation:
> ...



Did you need the slightly smaller size??? If you paid more than the Pro it would have been for 3 hours less battery per charge. Maybe send them back. Also certainly get the CCA CRA for BT. The tuning is right for it and they are so easy to drive they will kick ass over BT. It will kick some real expensive stuffs ass over BT esp. If the signature lacks after the BT cuts and if the earphone need any sort of power.

Think about it 8 hours vs. 5 hours. If you use aptX that sheds 20% so 4 hours and not using the gaming or HiFi music mode. You can in real life get 3 hours max depending on use out of the box. The CRA is just a Pro with smaller batteries in slimmer pods so only recommended if you absolutely need the 20% smaller size behind your ears. Of course they came out after so the Pro price had dropped so the BTX is usually more but no one should think that means it is better it is just newer so the discounts are behind the Pro's.


----------



## Juturna

jant71 said:


> Did you need the slightly smaller size??? If you paid more than the Pro it would have been for 3 hours less battery per charge. Maybe send them back. Also certainly get the CCA CRA for BT. The tuning is right for it and they are so easy to drive they will kick ass over BT. It will kick some real expensive stuffs ass over BT esp. If the signature lacks after the BT cuts and if the earphone need any sort of power.
> 
> Think about it 8 hours vs. 5 hours. If you use aptX that sheds 20% so 4 hours and not using the gaming or HiFi music mode. You can in real life get 3 hours max depending on use out of the box. The CRA is just a Pro with smaller batteries in slimmer pods so only recommended if you absolutely need the 20% smaller size behind your ears. Of course they came out after so the Pro price had dropped so the BTX is usually more but no one should think that means it is better it is just newer so the discounts are behind the Pro's.


Well, the AZ09 Pro is a whopping $0,60 more, so it's not actually cheaper here, but the difference is negligible.
I mean, my only motivation for choosing the CCAs over the KZ AZ09 Pro was because I thought that I wouldn't have to do any modding to use regular 2-pin IEMs, otherwise I would've gotten the KZs, the battery life is a bit of a bummer yeah. I don't need the smaller size, no. 
But in the end I think 3-4 hours are okay for the price even if I would want more.

But I also don't know if I have the energy to even send it back just to order the KZs, but we'll see how it goes.


----------



## jant71 (May 30, 2022)

Juturna said:


> Well, the AZ09 Pro is a whopping $0,60 more, so it's not actually cheaper here, but the difference is negligible.
> I mean, my only motivation for choosing the CCAs over the KZ AZ09 Pro was because I thought that I wouldn't have to do any modding to use regular 2-pin IEMs, otherwise I would've gotten the KZs, the battery life is a bit of a bummer yeah. I don't need the smaller size, no.
> But in the end I think 3-4 hours are okay for the price even if I would want more.
> 
> But I also don't know if I have the energy to even send it back just to order the KZs, but we'll see how it goes.


I'd certainly recommend the CRA for them. Or if you want to mod them I would get if you don't have them the scraper style blades




Just stick something like a match stick inside and get a depth measure then the blades will slowly slice through easy enough. Slow and easy should give a nice clean removal of the excess shroud. You of course need to flip and cut or rotate as you cut, your choice, as you have the pins in the way and you can't just cut through.


----------



## erockg

jant71 said:


> I'd certainly recommend the CRA for them. Or if you want to mod them I would get if you don't have them the scraper style blades
> 
> Just stick something like a match stick inside and get a depth measure then the blades will slowly slice through easy enough. Slow and easy should give a nice clean removal of the excess shroud. You of course need to flip and cut or rotate as you cut, your choice, as you have the pins in the way and you can't just cut through.


I posted pics of the similar mod I did a while back to a pair of KZ A09 Pro then of course settled on something else


----------



## jant71

Don't think it would make much difference here. Someone would buy it modded. More versatile. Esp. if it was done well and doesn't look like a cat was chewing on it.


----------



## dmphile

So these arrived today...


----------



## Fleeple

dmphile said:


> So these arrived today...


Ooooooo, tell us how they treat you! I keep hearing worrying things about case discharge.....


----------



## dmphile

Fleeple said:


> Ooooooo, tell us how they treat you! I keep hearing worrying things about case discharge.....


So far so good. I'll keep an eye on it. Ordered directly from the B&O site. I had the EQs a while back and returned those before they were able to provide the update that gave multipoint and afew other additions. These are significantly more comfortable and super light. Signature B&O tuning and sound is awesome.


----------



## Canabuc

Caipirina said:


> So, Mr. Always-late-to-the-Party finally caved in and got those AZ60 .. and yes, the hype is real! Not sure why I did not recognize them for what they are when I tested them briefly at e-earphone a few months back ... ah well, this way I got a fair / used price at HardOff
> 
> Next I guess will be the MTW3 ... still waiting for a chance to check then out, they will be released here on the 20th ...
> 
> ...


Well I have to thank Dan for telling me when the AZ60 were selling cheap in Canada. Got them for about 160 USD.
They have been everything I could want both in sound fit and features( minus QI).
So much so that I am hardly on here any more. I come on every free weeks in case there is some news and truthfully nothing new has made me feel the need to change these.


----------



## gandalftomte

Canabuc said:


> Well I have to thank Dan for telling me when the AZ60 were selling cheap in Canada. Got them for about 160 USD.
> They have been everything I could want both in sound fit and features( minus QI).
> So much so that I am hardly on here any more. I come on every free weeks in case there is some news and truthfully nothing new has made me feel the need to change these.


This is the type of post that I like since I'm waiting to receive my AZ60, they were shipped yesterday, I hope I get them this week.
I found them for 160 EUR but with 3-4 weeks delivery time, 3-4 weeks to second guess, continuing to read this forum doesn't really help with that 

Are you using stock tips?


----------



## Juturna

jant71 said:


> I'd certainly recommend the CRA for them. Or if you want to mod them I would get if you don't have them the scraper style blades
> 
> Just stick something like a match stick inside and get a depth measure then the blades will slowly slice through easy enough. Slow and easy should give a nice clean removal of the excess shroud. You of course need to flip and cut or rotate as you cut, your choice, as you have the pins in the way and you can't just cut through.


Since I'm effectively an idiot when it comes to any "handywork" things... just to make sure that I understand you correctly: 
You would insert the matchstick (or something of similar size) into the connector to know the DEPTH of it, so you know where you would cut the "shroud"? So where the toothpick hits the "base/bottom" of the connector is where you would cut them?


----------



## Juturna

erockg said:


> I posted pics of the similar mod I did a while back to a pair of KZ A09 Pro then of course settled on something else


I'm thinking of doing the mod anyway and see what happens. Do you think it would make sense to buy a 2-pin to MMCX adapter for the CCA BTX/AZ09 Pro too or should I just buy the Fiio UTWS3/5 for MMCX IEM's and just use them for different earbuds?


----------



## Juturna

gandalftomte said:


> This is the type of post that I like since I'm waiting to receive my AZ60, they were shipped yesterday, I hope I get them this week.
> I found them for 160 EUR but with 3-4 weeks delivery time, 3-4 weeks to second guess, continuing to read this forum doesn't really help with that
> 
> Are you using stock tips?


That's a long-ass delivery time for them.  I'm selling mine today for less than that and they are barely used (literally 3-4 times in total), if I had known you could've bought mine (i'm also in Sweden). 


I used stock tips with mine, I actually really liked the tips that came with the AZ60, especially since they offered an XL alternative which is rarely a thing with earbuds and I have weirdly big ear canals (especially on the right ear) so I think they're pretty good. They do have a filter (sorry, earwax guard might be a better term for it) in them which could potentially affect the clarity of the sound, but I don't personally think it matters too much, might mean that I would change the EQ just a little bit.


----------



## gandalftomte

Juturna said:


> That's a long-ass delivery time for them.  I'm selling mine today for less than that and they are barely used (literally 3-4 times in total), if I had known you could've bought mine (i'm also in Sweden).


Yeah very long time to wait, came across an offer on Amazon which I couldn't walk away from even though the delivery time was a bit on the long side.
I was looking around for used AZ60 for some time but didn't find anyone selling anywhere, you have to sell quicker next time , also, which market place are you using to sell used TWS? I mostly just find lower-end stuff being sold.

What's the reason you are deciding to sell the AZ60?



Juturna said:


> I used stock tips with mine, I actually really liked the tips that came with the AZ60, especially since they offered an XL alternative which is rarely a thing with earbuds and I have weirdly big ear canals (especially on the right ear) so I think they're pretty good. They do have a filter (sorry, earwax guard might be a better term for it) in them which could potentially affect the clarity of the sound, but I don't personally think it matters too much, might mean that I would change the EQ just a little bit.



Sounds good that the stock tips seem to be comfortable, I think I like the idea of earwax filter in the tips so that nothing reaches the mesh which is worrisome to clean.


----------



## Juturna

gandalftomte said:


> Yeah very long time to wait, came across an offer on Amazon which I couldn't walk away from even though the delivery time was a bit on the long side.
> I was looking around for used AZ60 for some time but didn't find anyone selling anywhere, you have to sell quicker next time , also, which market place are you using to sell used TWS? I mostly just find lower-end stuff being sold.
> 
> What's the reason you are deciding to sell the AZ60?
> ...


Ah yeah, that's definitely a good price for them, without a doubt. 
I just put it up on Swedroid (basically a forum around Smartphones, but it's so much more as well), they are usually more serious there than on something like Blocket and Facebook marketplace. I could possibly have gotten more money if I put it up for sale there but... it's not worth the hassle. Swedroid is not specifically for TWS, I wish I knew of a better site that was mostly aimed at selling earbuds and TWSs but I don't think there is a big enough market for it here, I would assume. 

The reason for selling them is honestly more than one thing. I bought a set of Galaxy Buds Pros for 500:- when I had to send my Technics in for a warranty replacement, and I've been enjoying the fit and sound signature so much on the GBPs that the Technics basically have been gathering dust since I got my new pair.  
The Technics are a fantastic all-round package with great ANC and can be EQ:d to sound really good, so I think you'll be happy with them.
The other reason is that I just need the money, I'm not that well-off financially right now and I need other things more than I need the Technics. Already have plenty of other earbuds as well.


----------



## Fleeple (May 31, 2022)

Has anyone given these a try? They seem like they might be just what some of you are looking for.....

https://www.adv-sound.com/collections/wireless-earphones/products/m5-tws-custom


----------



## Canabuc

gandalftomte said:


> This is the type of post that I like since I'm waiting to receive my AZ60, they were shipped yesterday, I hope I get them this week.
> I found them for 160 EUR but with 3-4 weeks delivery time, 3-4 weeks to second guess, continuing to read this forum doesn't really help with that
> 
> Are you using stock tips?


Yes stock tips. Only issue with them is sometimes my ear canal gets a bit itchy after extended listening and have to remove the buds for a little scratch lol.


----------



## erockg

Juturna said:


> I'm thinking of doing the mod anyway and see what happens. Do you think it would make sense to buy a 2-pin to MMCX adapter for the CCA BTX/AZ09 Pro too or should I just buy the Fiio UTWS3/5 for MMCX IEM's and just use them for different earbuds?


Honestly, I'd just buy the UTWS3/5 or the Shure TW2.  The mod works but the other units worked better for me.  In the end, I stuck with the Shure and added a mini 2 pin adapter.  Works incredibly great with my SeeAudio Midnight IEMs.


----------



## clerkpalmer

dmphile said:


> So far so good. I'll keep an eye on it. Ordered directly from the B&O site. I had the EQs a while back and returned those before they were able to provide the update that gave multipoint and afew other additions. These are significantly more comfortable and super light. Signature B&O tuning and sound is awesome.


Reset and repaired to my iPhone. No dice. Case went from 90 to 50 in about 24 hours.


----------



## BooleanBones

clerkpalmer said:


> Reset and repaired to my iPhone. No dice. Case went from 90 to 50 in about 24 hours.


It is quite odd indeed. I did not use mine Sunday or Monday with no charging of the case since earlier last week. Case shows 75% and both buds are 100% (although it did take a few seconds for the bud values to show accurate values).


----------



## jant71 (May 31, 2022)

We have a date for the Intime iReep, June 11th release. There attempt to mimic or try to give back what we lose since in-ears are in past our ears and can't use them like speakers and headphones can. "Reflected Sound radiant earpiece"








Fleeple said:


> Has anyone given these a try? They seem like they might be just what some of you are looking for.....
> 
> https://www.adv-sound.com/collections/wireless-earphones/products/m5-tws-custom


Old and overpriced. Yeah, they changed the chip so it is BT5.2 but it is featureless and not worth that price. Custom would be the pinnacle for needing ambient but it does not have it. Annnnd you still have to do this to charge...



Some charge case there in 2022 for $500. What are we savages. Plugging each side into a cable?


----------



## Fleeple

jant71 said:


> We have a date for the Intime iReep, June 11th release.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Fair enough, thank ye 😅😂 they do have a less custom model with a case but eh you're right, still no ambient.....


----------



## JoshG1217 (Jun 4, 2022)

Anyone have luck with utws5?


----------



## erockg

JoshG1217 said:


> Anyone have luck with utws5? Running my xenns up, but they are underpowered, so sound mediocre. I have an fh9 coming today. Hoping that does the trick


I had them running fine with the Xenns Mangird Tea.  No issues with power.


----------



## jant71

erockg said:


> I had them running fine with the Xenns Mangird Tea.  No issues with power.


Just because they work okay with BA doesn't mean the FiiO will work well with EST's in the mix. Different ballgame.


----------



## erockg

jant71 said:


> Just because they work okay with BA doesn't mean the FiiO will work well with EST's in the mix. Different ballgame.


----------



## Peter Yoon

jant71 said:


> We have a date for the Intime iReep, June 11th release. There attempt to mimic or try to give back what we lose since in-ears are in past our ears and can't use them like speakers and headphones can. "Reflected Sound radiant earpiece"
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Custom means made differently to each unique ears - means the position of the microphone required for ambient transparency will vary per design - means custom tuned PCBA per order.  There is a reason why no one else offers custom-fit true wireless.  It's just not profitable.

Why do we do it?  Because we genuinely care about providing a custom-fit wireless experience to our customers.  Apples and oranges...


----------



## dmphile

clerkpalmer said:


> Reset and repaired to my iPhone. No dice. Case went from 90 to 50 in about 24 hours.


Yikes, this must be a major problem across the board. I just took them out after 18ish hours after charging to 100% and case now shows 76% and the buds were at 94%. Not good. Hopefully there's a firmware update that solves this issue.


----------



## clerkpalmer

dmphile said:


> Yikes, this must be a major problem across the board. I just took them out after 18ish hours after charging to 100% and case now shows 76% and the buds were at 94%. Not good. Hopefully there's a firmware update that solves this issue.


Not confident firmware solves this anytime soon. More back and forth with them today and more of the same. Return or mail them back including a multi step process for the return to be accepted and then 7 to 10 business days to evaluate.


----------



## clerkpalmer

dmphile said:


> Yikes, this must be a major problem across the board. I just took them out after 18ish hours after charging to 100% and case now shows 76% and the buds were at 94%. Not good. Hopefully there's a firmware update that solves this issue.


Anyone have a set of EX that does NOT have drain?


----------



## dmphile (May 31, 2022)

That's unfortunate. I may have to do the same. How can they miss this during the product development and QA stages? Such a huge oversight. Is it possible that the app is misreading the battery levels? I just put back on the charger and it's back to fully charged within 10-15 mins.


----------



## clerkpalmer

dmphile said:


> That's unfortunate. I may have to do the same. How can they miss this during the product development and QA stages? Such a huge oversight. Is it possible that the app is misreading the battery levels? I just put back on the charger and it's back to fully charged within 10-15 mins.


I have a feeling this kind of thing is hard to engineer. Even the might apple released the air pods max with phantom battery drain that to my knowledge still exists. In my case, it’s definitely really. My case will be dead in a couple of days. On the other hand, I could leave my Bose unused for a month with zero drain. So who knows. Maybe they just think people will keep topping them up and the drain is acceptable.


----------



## dmphile

clerkpalmer said:


> I have a feeling this kind of thing is hard to engineer. Even the might apple released the air pods max with phantom battery drain that to my knowledge still exists. In my case, it’s definitely really. My case will be dead in a couple of days. On the other hand, I could leave my Bose unused for a month with zero drain. So who knows. Maybe they just think people will keep topping them up and the drain is acceptable.


The EQ's never had this issue so I would like to think that B&O would not release a product intentionally knowing that it has battery drain.  If they did, this is a massive blow to their brand and industry standards.


----------



## clerkpalmer

dmphile said:


> The EQ's never had this issue so I would like to think that B&O would not release a product intentionally knowing that it has battery drain.  If they did, this is a massive blow to their brand and industry standards.


Hmmm. My EQs had some issue. Can’t remember what it was. Did seem to be software based. So they are 0 for 2 with me.


----------



## clerkpalmer

dmphile said:


> The EQ's never had this issue so I would like to think that B&O would not release a product intentionally knowing that it has battery drain.  If they did, this is a massive blow to their brand and industry standards.


This is where things get tricky if you ask me. On the one hand, how could they not know. Any level of product testing would reveal this. Assuming they did know, that tells me they decided to release them anyway presumably assuming most wouldn’t notice or care. Bad form all around. Usually these types of things cost you a lot of money in reruns so you’d think they didn’t know.


----------



## dmphile

clerkpalmer said:


> This is where things get tricky if you ask me. On the one hand, how could they not know. Any level of product testing would reveal this. Assuming they did know, that tells me they decided to release them anyway presumably assuming most wouldn’t notice or care. Bad form all around. Usually these types of things cost you a lot of money in reruns so you’d think they didn’t know.


I'm gonna try charging to 100% again and see if it still happens. The case light has to be solid green to be 100% battery. I'll wait another night to see what it ends up being. If it still persists, I'll reach out to the CS and see what they say. If all else fails, I'll just return them. For $400, you'd think they'd have this all figured out. Shame.


----------



## clerkpalmer

dmphile said:


> I'm gonna try charging to 100% again and see if it still happens. The case light has to be solid green to be 100% battery. I'll wait another night to see what it ends up being. If it still persists, I'll reach out to the CS and see what they say. If all else fails, I'll just return them. For $400, you'd think they'd have this all figured out. Shame.


I’ve noticed the light stays green until the battery gets really low. Like 15 percent.


----------



## dmphile

clerkpalmer said:


> I’ve noticed the light stays green until the battery gets really low. Like 15 percent.


Dang, that's horrible. It should be showing amber at like 30-40% IMO.


----------



## clerkpalmer

dmphile said:


> Dang, that's horrible. It should be showing amber at like 30-40% IMO.


Mine usually skips amber and goes from green to red. Lol.


----------



## BooleanBones

Mine seem fine or very little drain. Been sitting all day unused and maybe 1-2% difference from early this morning.. Can't recall, but are you using Android?


----------



## clerkpalmer

BooleanBones said:


> Mine seem fine or very little drain. Been sitting all day unused and maybe 1-2% difference from early this morning.. Can't recall, but are you using Android?


iPhone


----------



## erockg

BooleanBones said:


> Mine seem fine or very little drain. Been sitting all day unused and maybe 1-2% difference from early this morning.. Can't recall, but are you using Android?


My EX buds and case were charged to 100% and the case dropped to 97% in an hour.  I'll try to refrain from using them and see if it gets worse, but they sound sooooo good!!!


----------



## BooleanBones

clerkpalmer said:


> iPhone


Same. I do think something seems fishy with my wireless charger and them, but have not spent time testing it yet. Last time I used cable, but other than that I have not noticed anything overly unusual after the app updates.


----------



## dmphile

BooleanBones said:


> Mine seem fine or very little drain. Been sitting all day unused and maybe 1-2% difference from early this morning.. Can't recall, but are you using Android?


I'm on Android. S22 Plus


----------



## Juturna (Jun 1, 2022)

erockg said:


> Honestly, I'd just buy the UTWS3/5 or the Shure TW2.  The mod works but the other units worked better for me.  In the end, I stuck with the Shure and added a mini 2 pin adapter.  Works incredibly great with my SeeAudio Midnight IEMs.


Yeah, I might just do that next month. We'll see... I really want the UTWS5s but I just find it hard to motivate paying literally twice as much over the UTWS3. Then i'll probably get an adapter from MMCX to 2-pin as well.
Why did you choose the TW2 over the UTWS5? I've heard people saying that the Fiios are a better buy than the TW2s.

In other news (or related news I should say) I bought the CCA CRA yesterday to try something out with the adapter, doesn't seem like they're actually my type of tuning from what I've read but we will see!
Will get the CCA BTX today or tomorrow most likely, and I won't get the earbuds until next tuesday it seems like. I hate waiting ((


----------



## Tommy C

Juturna said:


> Yeah, I might just do that next month. We'll see... I really want the UTWS5s but I just find it hard to motivate paying literally twice as much over the UTWS3. Then i'll probably get an adapter from MMCX to 2-pin as well.
> Why did you choose the TW2 over the UTWS5? I've heard people saying that the Fiios are a better buy than the TW2s.
> 
> In other news (or related news I should say) I bought the CCA CRA yesterday to try something out with the adapter, doesn't seem like they're actually my type of tuning from what I've read but we will see!
> Will get the CCA BTX today or tomorrow most likely, and I won't get the earbuds until next tuesday it seems like. I hate waiting ((


I chose the TW2 mainly for the user experience. Shure definitely nailed it. 
The equalizer is excellent, ambient mode is great and the connection is rock solid even in areas that I get hiccups with other TWS. I usually hook them up to UE 900 or the SE 215 Special Edition and with that being said they are superb, however when I was looking to buy the Fiio adapters locally the guy said they have numerous complaints about the BT connection basically being searching while in the case and also at that time they didn’t have ambient mode but perhaps this was pushed with a FW update. 
I truly enjoy the Shure. My main problem with the is the case is too big but it’s not a deal breaker.


----------



## clerkpalmer

So here is my EQ this morning. Everything was 100 percent last night. No use.


----------



## Caipirina

Trying a new strategy fighting my GAS with different GAS 
After realizing that I was about to plopp down a wad of cash for the MTW3 and seeing what I can get in the over ear department for that, I took a step back and reconsidered what I really wanted …
Well, now I am the proud owner of a pair of AirPods Max  uh oh! 
I kinda vow to not by anything new until the APP2 are coming out. Unless there’s a new Bose until then …
Now let’s see how much I can accessorize those cans. Already ordered a cheap case and silicone protectors …


----------



## Juturna

Tommy C said:


> I chose the TW2 mainly for the user experience. Shure definitely nailed it.
> The equalizer is excellent, ambient mode is great and the connection is rock solid even in areas that I get hiccups with other TWS. I usually hook them up to UE 900 or the SE 215 Special Edition and with that being said they are superb, however when I was looking to buy the Fiio adapters locally the guy said they have numerous complaints about the BT connection basically being searching while in the case and also at that time they didn’t have ambient mode but perhaps this was pushed with a FW update.
> I truly enjoy the Shure. My main problem with the is the case is too big but it’s not a deal breaker.


I see! I've just heard that the performance audio-wise is better with the Fiio's, would say that's incorrect? Or maybe you hadn't actually tried the Fiios yourself?


----------



## dmphile

clerkpalmer said:


> So here is my EQ this morning. Everything was 100 percent last night. No use.


Mine was 94% this morning when I went to bed with it at 100% around 9pm


----------



## erockg

Juturna said:


> Yeah, I might just do that next month. We'll see... I really want the UTWS5s but I just find it hard to motivate paying literally twice as much over the UTWS3. Then i'll probably get an adapter from MMCX to 2-pin as well.
> Why did you choose the TW2 over the UTWS5? I've heard people saying that the Fiios are a better buy than the TW2s.
> 
> In other news (or related news I should say) I bought the CCA CRA yesterday to try something out with the adapter, doesn't seem like they're actually my type of tuning from what I've read but we will see!
> Will get the CCA BTX today or tomorrow most likely, and I won't get the earbuds until next tuesday it seems like. I hate waiting ((


I really prefer the fit, form and function of the Shure TW2.  Phone calls and transparency mode work much better on the Shure adapters.  They work flawlessly with my iPhone and other devices.  They don't have multi-pairing, but they do have force-pairing.  The Fiio do not.  Yes, the UTWS5 have more power, but I feel the TW2s are so much more refined.  I haven't had any issues with power, but it did take me a few trial and error IEMs to find what ones matched well with the TW2.  I obsessed about this for months and finally found a good set and settled on them.  That said, I seem to grab my TWS buds so much more these days.  Just easier to carry and pop in.


----------



## erockg

Tommy C said:


> I chose the TW2 mainly for the user experience. Shure definitely nailed it.
> The equalizer is excellent, ambient mode is great and the connection is rock solid even in areas that I get hiccups with other TWS. I usually hook them up to UE 900 or the SE 215 Special Edition and with that being said they are superb, however when I was looking to buy the Fiio adapters locally the guy said they have numerous complaints about the BT connection basically being searching while in the case and also at that time they didn’t have ambient mode but perhaps this was pushed with a FW update.
> I truly enjoy the Shure. My main problem with the is the case is too big but it’s not a deal breaker.


Totally agree here.  Sometimes I'll just power off my Shure adapters and carry them without the case.  Not the best, but does work.


----------



## clerkpalmer

@erockg, I really like the form factor of the EX.  So comfortable.  How are the MTW3 holding up in comparison.  I'd only buy them if they are nearly as good as the EX.  Otherwise, I'll probably just skip it.  The AZ60 are decent to good for an earbud.


----------



## erockg (Jun 1, 2022)

clerkpalmer said:


> @erockg, I really like the form factor of the EX.  So comfortable.  How are the MTW3 holding up in comparison.  I'd only buy them if they are nearly as good as the EX.  Otherwise, I'll probably just skip it.  The AZ60 are decent to good for an earbud.


Soundwise, the EX are so much better than the MTW3 in my opinion.  Soundstage and instrument separation doesn't compare for my ears.  That said, the ANC, transparency and controls on the MTW3 are far superior.  I had the AZ60 but they hurt my ears .  When I first had them, there was some sibilance that I had to try to EQ out.    Either way, I'm much happier with the EX and MTW3.  I won't be getting rid of the EX even if they drain.  I don't mind charging them.  They just fit perfect and sound heavenly.


----------



## clerkpalmer

erockg said:


> Soundwise, the EX are so much better than the MTW3 in my opinion.  Soundstage and instrument separation doesn't compare for my ears.  That said, the ANC, transparency and controls on the MTW3 are far superior.  I had the AZ60 but they hurt my ears .  When I first had them, there was some sibilance that I had to try to EQ out.    Either way, I'm much happier with the EX and MTW3.  I won't be getting rid of the EX even if they drain.  I don't mind charging them.  They just fit perfect and sound heavenly.


Yeah I could put up with a little drain but not what I’m getting. Maybe I’ll try another set down the road.


----------



## Bhelpoori

Caipirina said:


> Trying a new strategy fighting my GAS with different GAS
> After realizing that I was about to plopp down a wad of cash for the MTW3 and seeing what I can get in the over ear department for that, I took a step back and reconsidered what I really wanted …
> Well, now I am the proud owner of a pair of AirPods Max  uh oh!
> I kinda vow to not by anything new until the APP2 are coming out. Unless there’s a new Bose until then …
> Now let’s see how much I can accessorize those cans. Already ordered a cheap case and silicone protectors …


I strayed too and got an AirPod Max late last year at a really cheap price but have got 3 TWS since… I found the best accessory was a padded cover/bag that came with some old Backbeat Pros that I put them in. 
https://www.findheadsets.com/plantronics-backbeat-pro-travel-sleeve

They have the best ANC and transparency of any headphone, and they sound better than any of my TWS, but they should for double the price of the highest, which BTW is still cheaper than the B&O TWS mentioned here…


----------



## BooleanBones

erockg said:


> Soundwise, the EX are so much better than the MTW3 in my opinion.  Soundstage and instrument separation doesn't compare for my ears.  That said, the ANC, transparency and controls on the MTW3 are far superior.  I had the AZ60 but they hurt my ears .  When I first had them, there was some sibilance that I had to try to EQ out.    Either way, I'm much happier with the EX and MTW3.  I won't be getting rid of the EX even if they drain.  I don't mind charging them.  They just fit perfect and sound heavenly.


Not shocking, but I have the same sentiments. Although I still have my AZ60s collecting dust


----------



## Tommy C (Jun 1, 2022)

Juturna said:


> I see! I've just heard that the performance audio-wise is better with the Fiio's, would say that's incorrect? Or maybe you hadn't actually tried the Fiios yourself?


I didn’t get the Fiio at the end as I was really happy and set with the Shures.
I doubt the user experience is anywhere near the TW2 and I’m willing to possibly sacrifice some power for an overall better product. Other than the large case if I had to live with only one set of TWS it will be the TW2 for the versatility and relatability. They always connect, ambient is always on point and can be set to ON when the music is paused which is a great feature. Good battery life and zero drain from either the case or adapters. They also work really well for phone calls which I need.


----------



## TioRi

Definitely not there yet, I've had Sony and Galaxy Buds in the past. But I'm Absolutely loving my Katos. I've got BT 5.0 neck cable  that Supports Ldac etc, with 22 hers play back. And having Wavelet EQ on Android is must.


----------



## Fleeple

Hullo folks 😊 I was wondering if there was a precedent for Aviot making quality earbuds, as I've been eyeing their high-end buds but have seen mixed reviews on their Amazon Japan pages. Any thoughts would be appreciated, as always 😄


----------



## feverfive

I've got a pretty specific use case for TWS:  strictly for use with my Macbook Pro (late 2021 version with Apple M1Pro processor); video conference calls and Youtube, Netflix, downloaded video consumption.

Any users out there who can advise of sets to *avoid* for my use case?  Is lag/out-of-sync audio/video a thing I need to worry about?


----------



## jant71

Peter Yoon said:


> Custom means made differently to each unique ears - means the position of the microphone required for ambient transparency will vary per design - means custom tuned PCBA per order.  There is a reason why no one else offers custom-fit true wireless.  It's just not profitable.
> 
> Why do we do it?  Because we genuinely care about providing a custom-fit wireless experience to our customers.  Apples and oranges...


There are some hurdles but battery contacts and mics should be out towards the edge for the mics to pick up better and shouldn't really change with the custom portion unless you are trying for a flush fit. I don't see flush fit being the choice though for those reasons and for ease of insertion and removal.

You guys putting out a better universal TWS anytime soon??



erockg said:


> Soundwise, the EX are so much better than the MTW3 in my opinion.  Soundstage and instrument separation doesn't compare for my ears.  That said, the ANC, transparency and controls on the MTW3 are far superior.  I had the AZ60 but they hurt my ears .  When I first had them, there was some sibilance that I had to try to EQ out.    Either way, I'm much happier with the EX and MTW3.  I won't be getting rid of the EX even if they drain.  I don't mind charging them.  They just fit perfect and sound heavenly.


So, then you are gonna get those iReep stage enhancing tips for the EX and go to the next level right??


----------



## erockg

jant71 said:


> There are some hurdles but battery contacts and mics should be out towards the edge for the mics to pick up better and shouldn't really change with the custom portion unless you are trying for a flush fit. I don't see flush fit being the choice though for those reasons and for ease of insertion and removal.
> 
> You guys putting out a better universal TWS anytime soon??
> 
> ...


Ahhhh.... no.


----------



## jasonb

clerkpalmer said:


> Yeah I could put up with a little drain but not what I’m getting. Maybe I’ll try another set down the road.


The problem with the drain and having to charge them more often because of it is that it will shorten their overall lifespan. The batteries will wear out quicker than they have to.


----------



## erockg

jasonb said:


> The problem with the drain and having to charge them more often because of it is that it will shorten their overall lifespan. The batteries will wear out quicker than they have to.


I don't think half of us here keep the buds long enough to worry about degradation.  We're nuts and obsessed.  Maybe it's just me, but I'll have a new pair before it'll matter


----------



## jasonb

erockg said:


> I don't think half of us here keep the buds long enough to worry about degradation.  We're nuts and obsessed.  Maybe it's just me, but I'll have a new pair before it'll matter


Probably true for a lot of people here, but if It is one you do like and plan to keep for years then in a couple years it could be a real problem.


----------



## erockg

feverfive said:


> I've got a pretty specific use case for TWS:  strictly for use with my Macbook Pro (late 2021 version with Apple M1Pro processor); video conference calls and Youtube, Netflix, downloaded video consumption.
> 
> Any users out there who can advise of sets to *avoid* for my use case?  Is lag/out-of-sync audio/video a thing I need to worry about?


I WFH and am in the office with a Apple ecosystem.  I can't say what avoid, but I use my Sony Linkbuds S, Sennheiser MTW3, B&O EX, AirPods Pro, Sony XM5 cans, B&W PI7, Shure TW2 and sometimes my Astell&Kern UW100s on Zoom calls, conference calls, phone calls etc.  I've used them all for a ton of media consumption and have had no issues with lag etc.  Love them all, but I'm certifiable and am realizing I have way too many TWS buds.  Ha ha!


----------



## erockg

jasonb said:


> Probably true for a lot of people here, but if It is one you do like and plan to keep for years then in a couple years it could be a real problem.


Most of us will be getting that EX v2 for sure LOL.  That said, for me, the drain isn't as bad as some are having here.  B&O truly nailed the tuning.  So great.


----------



## darveniza

erockg said:


> Most of us will be getting that EX v2 for sure LOL.  That said, for me, the drain isn't as bad as some are having here.  B&O truly nailed the tuning.  So great.


Happy with sound signature of EX more than the MTW3 , dis some test and fully charged the device 3 days ago and just did a check 72 hrs later, basically around 10% a day that the case is getting hit to hold charge in units and it seems R seems to get depleted a bit more.


----------



## Caipirina

Bhelpoori said:


> I strayed too and got an AirPod Max late last year at a really cheap price but have got 3 TWS since… I found the best accessory was a padded cover/bag that came with some old Backbeat Pros that I put them in.
> https://www.findheadsets.com/plantronics-backbeat-pro-travel-sleeve
> 
> They have the best ANC and transparency of any headphone, and they sound better than any of my TWS, but they should for double the price of the highest, which BTW is still cheaper than the B&O TWS mentioned here…


Apologies for side tracking. 
I got this case (arriving today) and I can’t get it around my head why it is so cheap (~4$). Even on AliExpress, same model costs 13+$


----------



## erockg

darveniza said:


> Happy with sound signature of EX more than the MTW3 , dis some test and fully charged the device 3 days ago and just did a check 72 hrs later, basically around 10% a day that the case is getting hit to hold charge in units and it seems R seems to get depleted a bit more.


Pretty much what I'm getting too.  Totally agree re: EX over the MTW3 for sound.


----------



## RouZah

I'm trying to decide between:

Beoplay EX *vs.* UTWS5 + Moondrop Variations _(or possibly 64 Audio U12t)_

I'm not sure which way to go!

Will i hear a big difference in sound quality between these 2 wireless solutions? Does anyone here have the UTWS5 to compare with the EX?


----------



## jasonb

For TWS, I’m just gonna stick to my AKG N400’s. They sound just how I’d want them to sound with Spinfit tips on them. The ANC could be a tad better, but they are fine. For as little as I actually use portable buds they are perfectly fine.


----------



## BooleanBones

RouZah said:


> I'm trying to decide between:
> 
> Beoplay EX *vs.* UTWS5 + Moondrop Variations _(or possibly 64 Audio U12t)_
> 
> ...


Is SQ your only need in a TWS? Or will you have other use cases? i.e. phone calls, ambient mode, noise cancelling etc.


----------



## RouZah

BooleanBones said:


> Is SQ your only need in a TWS? Or will you have other use cases? i.e. phone calls, ambient mode, noise cancelling etc.


SQ only thing that i care for. You have the utws5?


----------



## BooleanBones

RouZah said:


> SQ only thing that i care for. You have the utws5?


I do, but not with Moondrops. I use them on occasion with my IE600s. The reason I ask as I find it much less convenient to use the adapters over TWS like the EX. But you do have the opportunities to use the adapters with some pretty nice IEMs combinations. You might search the thread hear for the UTWS5 input from a ton of folks to give you some better ideas.


----------



## Fleeple

RouZah said:


> SQ only thing that i care for. You have the utws5?


UTWS5 also has Snapdragon Sound support 😁

Current List


----------



## RouZah

BooleanBones said:


> I do, but not with Moondrops. I use them on occasion with my IE600s. The reason I ask as I find it much less convenient to use the adapters over TWS like the EX. But you do have the opportunities to use the adapters with some pretty nice IEMs combinations. You might search the thread hear for the UTWS5 input from a ton of folks to give you some better ideas.


So which sound better? EX or utsw5+IEM (IE600)?


----------



## RouZah

Fleeple said:


> UTWS5 also has Snapdragon Sound support 😁
> 
> Current List


Correct, but so do the EX, no? apx adaptive on both EX and utws5


----------



## Fleeple (Jun 1, 2022)

RouZah said:


> Correct, but so do the EX, no? apx adaptive on both EX and utws5


Yes to adaptive, but no to snapdragon sound; it's a new thing that's been announced and only a handful of earbuds are on the list right now (only came out last year). It's really cool stuff 😊


----------



## TioRi

RouZah said:


> I'm trying to decide between:
> 
> Beoplay EX *vs.* UTWS5 + Moondrop Variations _(or possibly 64 Audio U12t)_
> 
> ...


I was thinking of the UTWS5 for my Katos, but went for this


https://a.aliexpress.com/_m0ZXVAi


----------



## BooleanBones

RouZah said:


> So which sound better? EX or utsw5+IEM (IE600)?


hands down my IE600 would be my choice over the two for SQ. That being said, that combination is much less portable than my EX. My use case is the TWS I have, are used for everything, where my IEMs (with or without adapters) are used in much more stationary scenarios. A lot of folks do use the adapters all over though, I just don't happen to.


----------



## TioRi

I'm currently using  moondrop littleblack which  aptx, with spinfit 240 and wavelet EQ on Android. I'd go for the Utws5


----------



## dmphile

RouZah said:


> I'm trying to decide between:
> 
> Beoplay EX *vs.* UTWS5 + Moondrop Variations _(or possibly 64 Audio U12t)_
> 
> ...


If you're looking for pure SQ, pick up the UTWS5 and pair it with a decent IEM, you won't be disappointed. I have both the EX and the UTWS5 paired with the CFA Dorado 2020 and it still beats the EX in overall SQ.


----------



## clerkpalmer (Jun 1, 2022)

separation anxiety for my EX. Haven’t dropped the package yet. Maybe an exchange should happen.  Hmmm.

Dusted off my Fokus. GD they sound even better than the EX! Too bad the fit is fussy. The wide bores don’t work in my ears. Look like they are dangling off of my head. Exercise? Forget it. Heck even breathing loosens them.  Any tips for tips? Anything to make them more stable?


----------



## Fleeple

clerkpalmer said:


> separation anxiety for my EX. Haven’t dropped the package yet. Maybe an exchange should happen.  Hmmm.
> 
> Dusted off my Fokus. GD they sound even better than the EX! Too bad the fit is fussy. The wide bores don’t work in my ears. Look like they are dangling off of my head. Exercise? Forget it. Heck even breathing loosens them.


Has anyone given fokus' latest a try? Looks like it might be for smaller ears and has ear hooks, but fewer drivers (I think) and not as pretty


----------



## BooleanBones

Fleeple said:


> Has anyone given fokus' latest a try? Looks like it might be for smaller ears and has ear hooks, but fewer drivers (I think) and not as pretty


I think you are talking about the Noble Falcon ANC? I think they are still in preorder, but find it hard to believe they would hold up to the Fokus Pros in a sound duel.


----------



## TioRi

clerkpalmer said:


> separation anxiety for my EX. Haven’t dropped the package yet. Maybe an exchange should happen.  Hmmm.
> 
> Dusted off my Fokus. GD they sound even better than the EX! Too bad the fit is fussy. The wide bores don’t work in my ears. Look like they are dangling off of my head. Exercise? Forget it. Heck even breathing loosens them.  Any tips for tips? Anything to make them more stable?


Double flange tips


----------



## Fleeple

BooleanBones said:


> I think you are talking about the Noble Falcon ANC? I think they are still in preorder, but find it hard to believe they would hold up to the Fokus Pros in a sound duel.


Apparently you can buy them now? Or at least you can according to bloom 😅 

https://bloomaudio.com/products/nob..._content=sag_organic&utm_campaign=sag_organic


----------



## Fleeple

TioRi said:


> Double flange tips


Does double flange exist for shorter tips? My ears don't seem to like the long (or even medium) ones very much sadly


----------



## BooleanBones

Fleeple said:


> Apparently you can buy them now? Or at least you can according to bloom 😅
> 
> https://bloomaudio.com/products/nob..._content=sag_organic&utm_campaign=sag_organic


I see that after looking at Noble's site. Their wording has not been updated on the page yet I guess. We can blame @FullCircle


----------



## erockg

BooleanBones said:


> I think you are talking about the Noble Falcon ANC? I think they are still in preorder, but find it hard to believe they would hold up to the Fokus Pros in a sound duel.





Fleeple said:


> Apparently you can buy them now? Or at least you can according to bloom 😅
> 
> https://bloomaudio.com/products/nob..._content=sag_organic&utm_campaign=sag_organic


I'll have them tomorrow.  Ugh.  Got them from Audio46.


----------



## Fleeple

erockg said:


> I'll have them tomorrow.  Ugh.  Got them from Audio46.


Oof.....i don't remember if their return policy is as good.....hope you like them 😊 and hey, Snapdragon Sound 😄


----------



## BooleanBones

erockg said:


> I'll have them tomorrow.  Ugh.  Got them from Audio46.


Chalk me down for being shocked


----------



## erockg

Fleeple said:


> Oof.....i don't remember if their return policy is as good.....hope you like them 😊 and hey, Snapdragon Sound 😄


I'll post some pics and thoughts tomorrow.  I had some Audio46 rewards points so saved a few bucks.  Fingers crossed!


----------



## Fleeple

erockg said:


> I'll post some pics and thoughts tomorrow.  I had some Audio46 rewards points so saved a few bucks.  Fingers crossed!


Nice! Looking forward to it 😊


----------



## erockg

BooleanBones said:


> Chalk me down for being shocked


You're next!


----------



## BooleanBones

erockg said:


> You're next!


Nah, for once I am pretty dang content with what I have sitting here in front of me. Need to liquidate some of this dust collecting inventory or buy another desk for headphones


----------



## clerkpalmer

TioRi said:


> Double flange tips


Thanks.  They don’t work for me. I hate that completely plugged sensation. 


Fleeple said:


> Does double flange exist for shorter tips? My ears don't seem to like the long (or even medium) ones very much sadly


Yep.


----------



## clerkpalmer

erockg said:


> I'll have them tomorrow.  Ugh.  Got them from Audio46.


Interesting. I wonder if they can make them sound better and fit better than the original falcon. Let us know.  I have 400 plus tax ready to deploy.


----------



## Fleeple

clerkpalmer said:


> Thanks.  They don’t work for me. I hate that completely plugged sensation.
> 
> Yep.


Ah heck yeah. Thank you!


----------



## erockg

clerkpalmer said:


> Interesting. I wonder if they can make them sound better and fit better than the original falcon. Let us know.  I have 400 plus tax ready to deploy.


I just want you to get the EX again


----------



## FullCircle

BooleanBones said:


> I see that after looking at Noble's site. Their wording has not been updated on the page yet I guess. We can blame @FullCircle



Hq usa man's the website. I'm a very analog kinda guy, if it's computer related I'm not the one. If it's power or hand tool related, I'm all over it.


----------



## clerkpalmer

erockg said:


> I just want you to get the EX again


If they were on prime or at Best Buy it would be done. Remain irritated at customer service but who am I punishing them or me?


----------



## Fleeple

Just got the melomania audio touch....already returning 🙂 Bluetooth is two separate connections, and just kept getting the pop-up that says 'Incorrect Pin'...which Google says would require me to delete all Bluetooth devices connected to my phone and reset my bluetooth. So.....yeah. Just a heads-up to any potential buyers out there.


----------



## Peter Yoon

jant71 said:


> There are some hurdles but battery contacts and mics should be out towards the edge for the mics to pick up better and shouldn't really change with the custom portion unless you are trying for a flush fit. I don't see flush fit being the choice though for those reasons and for ease of insertion and removal.
> 
> You guys putting out a better universal TWS anytime soon??
> 
> ...


Only if it was that easy...!  It's already a tetris figuring out battery, driver and PCBA inside for custom-fit.  New universal TWS needs a lot of planning... We haven't got anything ready to share at this point.


----------



## Bhelpoori

Caipirina said:


> Apologies for side tracking.
> I got this case (arriving today) and I can’t get it around my head why it is so cheap (~4$). Even on AliExpress, same model costs 13+$


Getting back a little on-topic, the huge case shows you just why I bought Bose QC TWS… it also, like the over ears Sony XM3 and Bose 700 have a big flaw: you can’t just put them on your head and immediately listen like a TWS. The Sony XMs are a particular annoyance with the finger catching hinge, rotation, moving the creaky headband to the right position, switching them on and waiting for them to connect.

The AirPods Max don’t have that problem in the travel sleeve. Just take them out the sleeve, open the bra, and put them on the head. Sadly, as has been mentioned, that’s only if you regularly charge them… just like the EX.


----------



## Tommy C

Fleeple said:


> Just got the melomania audio touch....already returning 🙂 Bluetooth is two separate connections, and just kept getting the pop-up that says 'Incorrect Pin'...which Google says would require me to delete all Bluetooth devices connected to my phone and reset my bluetooth. So.....yeah. Just a heads-up to any potential buyers out there.


That’s a strange one. I had the CA MT before and had multiple issues but BT asking for pin wasn’t one of them and first time seeing it, but yeah they do have two separate BT connections.


----------



## Fleeple

Tommy C said:


> That’s a strange one. I had the CA MT before and had multiple issues but BT asking for pin wasn’t one of them and first time seeing it, but yeah they do have two separate BT connections.


Admittedly it happened after I saw there was two connections and had my phone forget them because I thought it was a bug, but that's never caused another pair to have this issue.....


----------



## Bhelpoori

james444 said:


> Btw, fun fact that most people who obsess about codecs don't know that their aptX, aptx HD or LDAC transmission actually happens to one earpiece only. Because unless you have a phone / TWS combo which supports synchronous streaming to both earpieces (Qualcomm's proprietary TWS+ technology, still used by just a small minority of configurations) , only the streaming from your phone to the master earpiece will use aptX, aptx HD or LDAC compression. The secondary transmission, however, from your master earpiece to the slave earpiece, will always use ... guess what? ... high bitrate SBC.


Sorry to be late on this… This is no longer as true as it was as there are now many different proprietary ways to send audio to the two sides that don’t involve primary/secondary SBC audio transmission between the two over NFMI. For example my 1More Evos don’t do this on LDAC. 

At least LE-Audio will sort this out for LE-Audio transmission in a standard and more efficient way.


----------



## samandhi

Fleeple said:


> Just got the melomania audio touch....already returning 🙂 Bluetooth is two separate connections, and just kept getting the pop-up that says 'Incorrect Pin'...which Google says would require me to delete all Bluetooth devices connected to my phone and reset my bluetooth. So.....yeah. Just a heads-up to any potential buyers out there.





Fleeple said:


> Admittedly it happened after I saw there was two connections and had my phone forget them because I thought it was a bug, but that's never caused another pair to have this issue.....


I have had mine since almost launch, and have never seen that error; for myself, nor others complaining about. 

I am not sure about it asking for a pin, but the rest sounds like user error (no offense intended). There WILL be a MT right connection and a MT left connection saved in your BT connections. If it doesn't  automatically connect when pulling them out of the case, you need only click on one of them to connect, and it will connect to both. I think it might say this in the manual if you are still interested. 

IIRC it doesn't connect to both at the same time. It will connect to one as the main, then the IEM will connect to the other one. The reason there are two connections is because when the main gets too far off in battery life (from the other), it will swap to the other as the main.


----------



## raymanh

Hi everyone. Bit of a dilemma here. I'm looking for a set of bluetooth headphones that have a wire connecting them so that I can just drape them around my neck when not using them. I do have a pair of TWS (Jabra 75t), but I often don't bring the case since although it's on the smaller end of TWS cases, it's still quite bulky in the trouser pocket department. So often, when I need to take them out, I don't have anywhere to put them. 

I thought about getting something like the Soundpeats Q35 or Beats Flex but then I realised I could get any wired IEM and get a bluetooth cable like the KZ bluetooth 5.0. The only issue I can see with this is that I will be hesitant to let the IEMs dangle around my neck knowing then might disconnect and fall. I was wondering if there are any solutions to this or perhaps something like the Soundpeats or Beats would be the best way to go. Or any other alternatives apart from the aforementioned two that also can click together magnetically and are permanently attached to the wire too.

Thanks.


----------



## jant71 (Jun 2, 2022)

https://www.us.jvc.com/headphones/wireless_earbuds/ha_a30t/

On the US JVC site now. They sound like they will be solid. Enough features and seems the selling points are the size and SQ. They can do a bunch with LL mode and ANC, ambient, call mute, and on board bass boost etc. Things like the ANC and calls seem to be fine but not gonna be up with the best just useful. Seems like really good connection, solid touch implementation and two worthwhile SQ reviews say they are much better than the first $99 JVC ANC and the other, while not very descriptive, did give these 5 stars in relation to the Liberty 3 pro. Should be a good budget option if the focus is fit, function, and SQ and you don't expect great ANC.




raymanh said:


> Hi everyone. Bit of a dilemma here. I'm looking for a set of bluetooth headphones that have a wire connecting them so that I can just drape them around my neck when not using them. I do have a pair of TWS (Jabra 75t), but I often don't bring the case since although it's on the smaller end of TWS cases, it's still quite bulky in the trouser pocket department. So often, when I need to take them out, I don't have anywhere to put them.
> 
> I thought about getting something like the Soundpeats Q35 or Beats Flex but then I realised I could get any wired IEM and get a bluetooth cable like the KZ bluetooth 5.0. The only issue I can see with this is that I will be hesitant to let the IEMs dangle around my neck knowing then might disconnect and fall. I was wondering if there are any solutions to this or perhaps something like the Soundpeats or Beats would be the best way to go. Or any other alternatives apart from the aforementioned two that also can click together magnetically and are permanently attached to the wire too.
> 
> Thanks.


I would think a MMCX BT cable would not fall off since they click in quite securely.

You could get the AT-Sport90BT since they are a good deal at current prices. They do magnetically attach. They do have 4GB of internal memory and play tunes themselves. They do have an amp that makes them sound quite nice. They are big and they are older so the battery life is nothing special. They also need better tips than they come with. They ambient is usable but has noticeable white noise but not many even have ambient so still a plus. Think you can still find them on Amazon for around $40. I got a used pair for $21 off Amazon and they have served me well. Not for everyone but worth a look.


----------



## assassin10000

raymanh said:


> Hi everyone. Bit of a dilemma here. I'm looking for a set of bluetooth headphones that have a wire connecting them so that I can just drape them around my neck when not using them. I do have a pair of TWS (Jabra 75t), but I often don't bring the case since although it's on the smaller end of TWS cases, it's still quite bulky in the trouser pocket department. So often, when I need to take them out, I don't have anywhere to put them.
> 
> I thought about getting something like the Soundpeats Q35 or Beats Flex but then I realised I could get any wired IEM and get a bluetooth cable like the KZ bluetooth 5.0. The only issue I can see with this is that I will be hesitant to let the IEMs dangle around my neck knowing then might disconnect and fall. I was wondering if there are any solutions to this or perhaps something like the Soundpeats or Beats would be the best way to go. Or any other alternatives apart from the aforementioned two that also can click together magnetically and are permanently attached to the wire too.
> 
> Thanks.





jant71 said:


> https://www.us.jvc.com/headphones/wireless_earbuds/ha_a30t/
> 
> On the US JVC site now. They sound like they will be solid. Enough features and seems the selling points are the size and SQ. They can do a bunch with LL mode and ANC, ambient, call mute, and on board bass boost etc. Things like the ANC and calls seem to be fine but not gonna be up with the best just useful. Seems like really good connection, solid touch implementation and two worthwhile SQ reviews say they are much better than the first $99 JVC ANC and the other, while not very descriptive, did give these 5 stars in relation to the Liberty 3 pro. Should be a good budget option if the focus is fit, function, and SQ and you don't expect great ANC.
> 
> ...



The fiio neckband seems pretty decent as well.


----------



## raymanh

jant71 said:


> I would think a MMCX BT cable would not fall off since they click in quite securely.
> 
> You could get the AT-Sport90BT since they are a good deal at current prices. They do magnetically attach. They do have 4GB of internal memory and play tunes themselves. They do have an amp that makes them sound quite nice. They are big and they are older so the battery life is nothing special. They also need better tips than they come with. They ambient is usable but has noticeable white noise but not many even have ambient so still a plus. Think you can still find them on Amazon for around $40. I got a used pair for $21 off Amazon and they have served me well. Not for everyone but worth a look.



Yeah you're right. TBH I've only had a few IEMs, a few being MMCX and one being 2 pin (BL03). The MMCX connectors were quite hard to disconnect, sometimes requiring considerable effort! Not sure if this goes for all 2 pin connections, but I often found the BLO3's disconnected from the cable.

Thanks for the suggestion, but that AT looks a bit dated. I'm now thinking of a Timeless with something like the KZ bluetooth cable (unless there's something better?).

Otherwise still considering permanently attached wired bluetooth IEMs, but I guess none will come close to the above setup.

On a side note, what even is the specific term for these types of IEMs where there's a wire between them but they're bluetooth? I'm finding it's quite hard to get good results from google searches because I get a mix of everything.


----------



## TioRi

Kz cable will not work, you need a standard 0.78 2 pin cable. The plenty good Blutooth adapters on AliExpress


----------



## jant71

raymanh said:


> Yeah you're right. TBH I've only had a few IEMs, a few being MMCX and one being 2 pin (BL03). The MMCX connectors were quite hard to disconnect, sometimes requiring considerable effort! Not sure if this goes for all 2 pin connections, but I often found the BLO3's disconnected from the cable.
> 
> Thanks for the suggestion, but that AT looks a bit dated. I'm now thinking of a Timeless with something like the KZ bluetooth cable (unless there's something better?).
> 
> ...



That would probably be a bad choice. I might stay away from planars for BT and not with something as weak in power as a KZ cable. You'd want an amp chip or chips in a cable that will drive things not sound dull and compressed cause they are underpowered. You'll think the Blon sound better.


----------



## raymanh

jant71 said:


> That would probably be a bad choice. I might stay away from planars for BT and not with something as weak in power as a KZ cable. You'd want an amp chip or chips in a cable that will drive things not sound dull and compressed cause they are underpowered. You'll think the Blon sound better.



Ah right, so it would need something more powerful like a BTR3 or Qudelix 5K? Or what about a more substantial neckband like the Fiio LCBT2? 

And what about those ear hook style bluetooth adapters. I think I remember seeing some people on here using the Timeless with them.

Sorry, not really clued up about this stuff.


----------



## jant71

raymanh said:


> Ah right, so it would need something more powerful like a BTR3 or Qudelix 5K? Or what about a more substantial neckband like the Fiio LCBT2?
> 
> And what about those ear hook style bluetooth adapters. I think I remember seeing some people on here using the Timeless with them.
> 
> Sorry, not really clued up about this stuff.


Yep, the BT amps would be best. The latest FiiO adapters have some power. You'd have to track down those owners and see what they say. I've seen a couple of those posts but worth checking if it worked out or if they moved on and why.


----------



## raymanh

jant71 said:


> Yep, the BT amps would be best. The latest FiiO adapters have some power. You'd have to track down those owners and see what they say. I've seen a couple of those posts but worth checking if it worked out or if they moved on and why.



Yeah just been doing some research and it seems a few are happy with the FiiO UTWS5. It seems there must be something similarly powerful in cable form, but not as big as the LCBT2.

Just posted the question on the Timeless thread, but otherwise on the lookout for a powerful cable bluetooth adaptor.


----------



## Fleeple

samandhi said:


> I have had mine since almost launch, and have never seen that error; for myself, nor others complaining about.
> 
> I am not sure about it asking for a pin, but the rest sounds like user error (no offense intended). There WILL be a MT right connection and a MT left connection saved in your BT connections. If it doesn't  automatically connect when pulling them out of the case, you need only click on one of them to connect, and it will connect to both. I think it might say this in the manual if you are still interested.
> 
> IIRC it doesn't connect to both at the same time. It will connect to one as the main, then the IEM will connect to the other one. The reason there are two connections is because when the main gets too far off in battery life (from the other), it will swap to the other as the main.


No offense taken 😊 I fully understand that I could have checked the manual before deleting the connections and attempting to re-connect; my only flimsy excuse is having two separate connections pop up HAS been a bug before that was fixed by forgetting the connections and re-connecting. Even then....the fact that it now refuses to connect without resetting my Bluetooth connection and re-connecting everything my phone has stored in its memory seems awfully....fragile? Maybe I'm expecting a lot 😅 thank you for your explanation, though 😊.


----------



## samandhi

Fleeple said:


> No offense taken 😊 I fully understand that I could have checked the manual before deleting the connections and attempting to re-connect; my only flimsy excuse is having two separate connections pop up HAS been a bug before that was fixed by forgetting the connections and re-connecting. Even then....the fact that it now refuses to connect without resetting my Bluetooth connection and re-connecting everything my phone has stored in its memory seems awfully....fragile? Maybe I'm expecting a lot 😅 thank you for your explanation, though 😊.


Have you tried forgetting those two connections, then resetting the MT themselves, and trying again? Seems odd that you have to blow out all of your BT connections, and I have never seen that before.


----------



## Fleeple

samandhi said:


> Have you tried forgetting those two connections, then resetting the MT themselves, and trying again? Seems odd that you have to blow out all of your BT connections, and I have never seen that before.


How would I go about doing this? I did check the manual, but all I saw was the ability to power them down manually (and there's no button anywhere, I checked). Forgetting the connections has been done twice (at least), and has continued with the lack of pin/incorrect pin pop-up


----------



## samandhi

Fleeple said:


> How would I go about doing this? I did check the manual, but all I saw was the ability to power them down manually (and there's no button anywhere, I checked). Forgetting the connections has been done twice (at least), and has continued with the lack of pin/incorrect pin pop-up


Here is the procedure for resetting the MT: https://casupport.cambridgeaudio.co...woaz39ilcea-How-do-I-reset-my-Melomania-Touch


----------



## samandhi

Fleeple said:


> How would I go about doing this? I did check the manual, but all I saw was the ability to power them down manually (and there's no button anywhere, I checked). Forgetting the connections has been done twice (at least), and has continued with the lack of pin/incorrect pin pop-up


Also keep in mind that when you do re-pair these, it WILL have a popup asking if it is ok to connect to the second ear piece after it connects to the first one.


----------



## Fleeple

samandhi said:


> Here is the procedure for resetting the MT: https://casupport.cambridgeaudio.co...woaz39ilcea-How-do-I-reset-my-Melomania-Touch


So it took about three tries (I think I wasn't holding them correctly/long enough), but they're working! I'll have to see if the seal is good enough but thank you 😄 these sound wonderful already 😊. I feel kinda silly for not doing a Google search....that was absolutely on me.


----------



## samandhi

Fleeple said:


> So it took about three tries (I think I wasn't holding them correctly/long enough), but they're working! I'll have to see if the seal is good enough but thank you 😄 these sound wonderful already 😊. I feel kinda silly for not doing a Google search....that was absolutely on me.


congratulations on a wonderful set of TWS! Do let us know what you think of them after you have had some time to get used to them?!


----------



## MattSPL

Has anybody compared the Jabra elite 75T and Sennheiser tw3?


----------



## erockg

Noble Falcon ANC arrived.  In addition to ANC, they have transparency mode, Qi charging, auto on/off pause when you take them out.  Still trying tips and wings to see what works best to me.  They have good sub bass.  There was a firmware update as soon as I set them up.  Took less than ten minutes.  Pleasantly surprised by the tuning.  Although, you really do not need to EQ them much, I did.  I did my own version of a Harman curve with a little tweaking to my liking.  I'd say these are very much worth the price.  Case is reminiscent of the Falcon and Falcon Pro case.  I'm very surprised that the app enables a TON of customizations.  EQ, button controls, low latency or multipoint mode.  This IMO is what a lot of us want -- customization -- on top of great sound of course.  Rockin' out to the new Def Leppard and I'm not disappointed.  Great sub-bass.  Soundstage is wide.  ANC is mediocre.  It does block out some fans etc, but I'll keep messing with that aspect by changing tips.  I'll also report back if I find any bugs.


----------



## FYLegend

Juturna said:


> Really? I didn't enjoy the XM4's at all soundwise, one of my biggest letdowns in TWS's.
> 
> I don't dislike the AZ60s, I just don't like them as much as the Galaxy Buds honestly. The Galaxy Buds Pros I can just listen to as they are, they have pretty much the perfect tuning (which still doesn't mean they sound as good as I can imagine an earbud sounding) to my ears, and the AZ60s I have to EQ with Wavelet and I still have a hard time getting anything that sounds as "right" to my ears as the GBPs do.


I have been considering the AZ60 but decided on the Liberty 3 Pro instead. I really enjoyed the Galaxy Buds2 for what they offered but unfortunately misplaced them somewhere and it went into some back alley! Unfortunately the Buds2 and the Buds+ suffer a big issue on my Note 9 with the Scalable codec, as the bitrate seems to decrease and cause some treble distortion. Changing to AAC fixes the problem but both of them always default to Scalable. Perhaps the Note 9 is "too old" to handle higher bitrates of the Scalable codec. 


Bhelpoori said:


> Correct, they don’t remember the ANC setting. It is one of the many quirks.
> 
> However, don’t worry, the ANC isn’t that good anyways so having it on may not make much difference anyways.


Well, if an earbud doesn't have it, I'd prefer it defaulting to ANC on rather than having to turn it on, because I bought them for the purpose of using ANC. The TaoTronics SoundLiberty 94 defaults to ANC On with both ears and transparency with one ear, although in this case it probably contributes to the massive battery drain of the charging case.


----------



## Fleeple

samandhi said:


> congratulations on a wonderful set of TWS! Do let us know what you think of them after you have had some time to get used to them?!


Got the sound working but apparently the mic sounded like I was in a crowd of people, so sadly it didn't work out anyways 😞 but thank you all for the help and well-wishes 😊


----------



## samandhi

Fleeple said:


> Got the sound working but apparently the mic sounded like I was in a crowd of people, so sadly it didn't work out anyways 😞 but thank you all for the help and well-wishes 😊


You mean when talking on the phone, or in ambient mode?


----------



## Fleeple

samandhi said:


> You mean when talking on the phone, or in ambient mode?


When talking on the phone, ambient was alright tho 😅


----------



## samandhi

Fleeple said:


> When talking on the phone, ambient was alright tho 😅


Ah. Sorry to hear that... Judging from your signature, you either know exactly what you want and can't find it, or you have no clue what you are looking for and will know it when you hear it... I wish you luck in finding it though. I have no recommendations because all of my TWS are ancient by now (though to me, still very good); even though they are less than 2 years old....


----------



## gandalftomte

Received my AZ60 yesterday and impressions are generally very positive, so far I've only used them for around 5 hours.

Fit is good, the pre-mounted tips (size M I think) seems to fit me well, although my right ear turned out to be a little bit sensitive to placement, if angled "incorrectly" there's some pain where the earbud rubs against the ear after 1+ hour or so, adjust it a little and it's fine again.

Default sound profile is generally good, it is clear and fairly airy (decent treble extension), IMHO it is a bit bass heavy and lacks a little little bit of sparkle.
I tested the presets and besides the default setting the "Treble+" preset was the best for me but not perfect, it resulted in a little bit too much treble on some songs, and the amount of bass was unchanged wrt default.

Which brought me to the custom equalizer, I brought down the bass a bit and upped high mids and treble a little, and now it sounds pretty damn good.
(A few more bands to play with wouldn't have hurt)
I can turn up the volume high and it still sounds great, and at low volumes nothing seems missing.

The sub-bass doesn't really decrease as much as I had expected when decreasing the 100Hz band (it seems to be quite narrow), so the sub-bass is always quite present, which gives a nice thump to drums etc, but in some songs it can almost become a little bit too much, the amount of sub-bass in songs really varies wildly.
(This is something I reaaaallly noticed with my previous TWS, which have an iiiiinsane sub-bass boost)

I tested them in a meeting in a quiet environment (except for a mjauing cat), I don't know how well my peers heard me but at least they didn't complain.
The mute/unmute functionality is nice, and gives different beeps indicating if you just muted or unmuted which is very helpful.

The touch controls aren't as configurable as I had thought, only a subset of the commands can be configured for long-hold.

ANC I just tested briefly in the car for a few minutes this morning, seemed to do a good job of reducing at least the low frequency rumble when driving on roads with rough asfalt (as we have in a lot of places in Sweden). I was listening to music and turned on ANC because I could. It wasn't a pure ANC test, it was a music test.
Turning on ANC didn't alter the sound signature (and didn't ruin treble as with my previous TWS when ANC or transparency was enabled).

I havn't tested transparency much yet, it lets sound in, has some noise/hiss if level is turned up above 80% but that is ok.
Seems that if you want transparency+pause in one action you have to configure transparency in "attention" mode in which the level of transparency can't be adjusted and I guess is always set to 100%, the attention mode has noise/hiss.

As I'm writing this I have them connected to my phone and to my computer which is playing music using SBC, sounds great.
They have been playing music nonstop without ANC for 2h10min using AAC (from phone, it defaults to AAC it seems even if LDAC is enabled) for 30min and then SBC from computer for 1h40min, power level remaining in the buds is 78% (same in both).

AZ60 is a major step up from my previous TWS, I think I'll be happy with these for some time now.


----------



## Fleeple

samandhi said:


> Ah. Sorry to hear that... Judging from your signature, you either know exactly what you want and can't find it, or you have no clue what you are looking for and will know it when you hear it... I wish you luck in finding it though. I have no recommendations because all of my TWS are ancient by now (though to me, still very good); even though they are less than 2 years old....


Definitely the former.....the sony linkbuds s might be it, still testing but that might just be me being super picky at this point. A few more I can try before I decide on these or not, but thank you all the same 😊😊 recommendations are always appreciated as they might mean brands I haven't heard of yet 😅 (only recently found aviot, for example)


----------



## Fleeple

Don't know how this snuck by me, as I've been keeping an eye on it for ages....logitech has released new earbuds that apparently have half-decent sound, okay ANC, a pretty solid mic and the ability to connect via a usb-a/usb-c dongle (via an adapter for the c); I've not seen another pair of earbuds with that last feature, so if anyone is interested here's the page 😊.

https://www.logitech.com/en-us/products/headsets/zone-true-wireless-earbuds.985-001081.html


----------



## jant71 (Jun 3, 2022)

JVC at it again. This time going the Cleer ARC, BOSE Open, Acreo, Oladance style with their new Nearphones with 16mm drivers...







"The main body is equipped with a large-diameter 16mm driver and adopts a bass reflex structure inside. The company's sound quality meister has optimized the acoustic design by utilizing the know-how cultivated in speaker development, so you can enjoy a powerful sound rich in bass while incorporating ambient sound.

In addition, an acoustic design with appropriate directionality control is adopted. The internal structure and the number and shape of speaker openings have been elaborately designed so that sound pressure peaks do not come to the frequency band where human ears can easily recognize sound leakage. As a result, it achieves both high sound quality and reduced sound leakage, and it is said that you can enjoy music listening without worrying about the surroundings."

For about $100 you get BT 5.1, 7 hours battery and 17 in the case. Another Victor branded with "high SQ" but still only give SBC codec like the just released budget model. Coming 6/9.


----------



## clerkpalmer

The EX is now on Amazon. Reordered there. Prime delivery-June 11th. Gotta love it. Still faster than an exchange.


----------



## Fleeple

clerkpalmer said:


> The EX is now on Amazon. Reordered there. Prime delivery-June 11th. Gotta love it. Still faster than an exchange.


Dang it......and I just ordered aviot's high-end from ebay.......ah well, something to try if they don't work out.


----------



## jant71

Fleeple said:


> Dang it......and I just ordered aviot's high-end from ebay.......ah well, something to try if they don't work out.


Link please?? Hope you did well cause they are not really pricey and I would tell you which version is best to get. Better to sign up for Amazon Global cause you earn points and some want $250 - $300 for the Aviot BD21J which is $115 on Amazon Japan before shipping. Though the PNK models you might need to get off ebay since they are limited and doubt any are left on Amazon though they pop up from time to time.


----------



## Fleeple

jant71 said:


> Link please?? Hope you did well cause they are not really pricey and I would tell you which version is best to get. Better to sign up for Amazon Global cause you earn points and some want $250 - $300 for the Aviot BD21J which is $115 on Amazon Japan before shipping. Though the PNK models you might need to get off ebay since they are limited and doubt any are left on Amazon though they pop up from time to time.


https://www.ebay.com/itm/1824492453...ztobgjnszy&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY

I am absolutely going to look that up, all I could find it in was Japanese websites and Japanese Amazon 😅 thank you!!


----------



## BooleanBones

clerkpalmer said:


> The EX is now on Amazon. Reordered there. Prime delivery-June 11th. Gotta love it. Still faster than an exchange.


on your first set, were you using only wireless charging or combo of both with wired? Mine charge fine on my charger yesterday, but have also gone to overheat mode (red) a couple times pretty quickly which seems strange. I thought maybe my charge was flaking out, but it charges everything else just fine.


----------



## clerkpalmer

BooleanBones said:


> on your first set, were you using only wireless charging or combo of both with wired? Mine charge fine on my charger yesterday, but have also gone to overheat mode (red) a couple times pretty quickly which seems strange. I thought maybe my charge was flaking out, but it charges everything else just fine.


Exclusively wired.


----------



## jant71 (Jun 3, 2022)

Fleeple said:


> https://www.ebay.com/itm/1824492453...ztobgjnszy&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY
> 
> I am absolutely going to look that up, all I could find it in was Japanese websites and Japanese Amazon 😅 thank you!!


Yeah, you are pretty much stuck right now for the snapdragon sound model in the blue from ebay. There is the rose gold one...



I added it to the cart and it comes out to $159.96 with the faster 6/8 to 6/10(to NY) shipping. I do encourage signing up for Amazon Global since the shipping is fast and the prices are not the ebay seller profit but the normal one. Plus the points you can earn for the next purchase. A bit more protection/back up than ebay will give you as well.


----------



## BooleanBones

clerkpalmer said:


> Exclusively wired.


Running a test now to see how long they last in the case with no use/no charge. first 27 hours and all still show 100% on mine.


----------



## Fleeple

jant71 said:


> Yeah, you are pretty much stuck right now for the snapdragon sound model from ebay. There is the rose gold one...
> 
> I added it to the cart and it comes out to $159.96 with the faster 6/8 to 6/10(to NY) shipping. I do encourage signing up for Amazon global since the shipping is fast and the prices are not the ebay seller profit but the normal one. Plus the points you can earn for the next purchase.


Damn 😞 that price would be awesome.....maybe I should just return these. And thank you, I will 😊


----------



## erockg

Few price drops this week:  M&D MW08 Sport down to $149 with a charging pad https://www.costco.com/master-%26-d...-wireless-charging-pad.product.100825481.html

V-Moda Hexamove Pro and Lite:  $129/$99.  Wonky app and huge case but the sound is great IMO on the Pro version.  It's the only version with an EQ: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B09BTKNWGS?ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_product_details&th=1 and https://www.amazon.com/dp/B09HFCWSM...pY2tSZWRpcmVjdCZkb05vdExvZ0NsaWNrPXRydWU&th=1


----------



## clerkpalmer

BooleanBones said:


> Running a test now to see how long they last in the case with no use/no charge. first 27 hours and all still show 100% on mine.


Yeah definitely not my experience. I do wonder if the fact I had them paired to my iPhone and iPad matters.


----------



## BooleanBones

clerkpalmer said:


> Yeah definitely not my experience. I do wonder if the fact I had them paired to my iPhone and iPad matters.


I can try that out too. Have only had paired to iphone so far,


----------



## jant71

Budget deal of the day?

Very small size, small price, balanced sound with excellent mids(?) for $16 before tax. Full controls and perhaps a good set of tips(look decent anyhow) on what looks to be a good beater or gift pair.


----------



## samandhi

Fleeple said:


> Definitely the former.....the sony linkbuds s might be it, still testing but that might just be me being super picky at this point. A few more I can try before I decide on these or not, but thank you all the same 😊😊 *recommendations are always appreciated as they might mean brands I haven't heard of yet 😅 (only recently found aviot, for example)*


In that case, you might also look into Nuarl (a Japanese company rather than a Chinese brand). I didn't see that name in your signature. While I can't speak for any of the new models, I have the N6 Pro, and they are fantastic in an almost wired IEM way. But, keep in mind that the signature for these is not the typical TWS tuning, nor does it have any extra features. These are more reference tuned, and have physical buttons on them (same buttons on both sides). 

To help you decided whether you might like the sound of these or not, I was looking for sound quality ONLY with these (which these definitely have in spades), and I wanted something reference sounding, with lots of micro-details. They do NOT have a boosted bass at all; not flat either, more neutral, jut not boosted in a Harmon curve sort of way.

Bottom line is that if you are looking for more analytical sound (with a bit of fun), these are for you. If you are looking for fun and lively tuning, these might not be your cup of tea. BTW, sound quality of the mic (I have been told) is excellent. Just no ANC or ambient mode, these are simply IEMs with a TWS connection (AptX or AAC IIRC).


----------



## Fleeple

samandhi said:


> In that case, you might also look into Nuarl (a Japanese company rather than a Chinese brand). I didn't see that name in your signature. While I can't speak for any of the new models, I have the N6 Pro, and they are fantastic in an almost wired IEM way. But, keep in mind that the signature for these is not the typical TWS tuning, nor does it have any extra features. These are more reference tuned, and have physical buttons on them (same buttons on both sides).
> 
> To help you decided whether you might like the sound of these or not, I was looking for sound quality ONLY with these (which these definitely have in spades), and I wanted something reference sounding, with lots of micro-details. They do NOT have a boosted bass at all; not flat either, more neutral, jut not boosted in a Harmon curve sort of way.
> 
> Bottom line is that if you are looking for more analytical sound (with a bit of fun), these are for you. If you are looking for fun and lively tuning, these might not be your cup of tea. BTW, sound quality of the mic (I have been told) is excellent. Just no ANC or ambient mode, these are simply IEMs with a TWS connection (AptX or AAC IIRC).


I did look at nuarl actually, thank you 😄 I really love the idea of the n6 pro 2, but I've had 2 (I think) pairs of earbuds with buttons and I kind of hate them.....the only pair I saw that didn't have them (the n6 se I think?) didn't have the best sounding mic (maybe because of the ip rating), but maybe I'll look again 😊. Thank you though 😄


----------



## IChen

Is the Beoplay EX actually worth it? Going to try out in store tomorrow but $400 is a lot to ask for a TWS...


----------



## jant71

Fleeple said:


> I did look at nuarl actually, thank you 😄 I really love the idea of the n6 pro 2, but I've had 2 (I think) pairs of earbuds with buttons and I kind of hate them.....the only pair I saw that didn't have them (the n6 se I think?) didn't have the best sounding mic (maybe because of the ip rating), but maybe I'll look again 😊. Thank you though 😄


You have the Yamaha so you pretty much have the Nuarl but with slightly better fit and similar buttons. Having had both I really think you don't need both. I think the Aviot is the right track for something a bit different. There will be new Nuarl coming that, from the rendering, do not have the buttons.


----------



## Fleeple

jant71 said:


> You have the Yamaha so you pretty much have the Nuarl but with slightly better fit and similar buttons. Having had both I really think you don't need both. I think the Aviot is the right track for something a bit different. There will be new Nuarl coming that, from the rendering, do not have the buttons.


I see your confusion, but everything in the orange has been or will be returned....that was actually a big part of why I returned the yamahas (which confirmed my distaste for buttons). I will definitely look at the new nuarl though, thank you 😊


----------



## Trager

tiagopinto said:


> You were testing TWS, with or without ANC, while driving? Or while being driven?


While driving. One of my primary use cases for ANC IEMs is to take calls while I’m commuting, which happens unfortunately often. In this case, I was driving on mostly empty freeways fairly late at night, so I could actually pay more attention to the sound and ANC capabilities. 


helmutcheese said:


> Does it matter (I know what you're getting at), deaf peeps can drive legally.


I love my Miata, but the fact is that if you’re moving at freeway speeds, the wind noise is such that you ain’t hearing much anyway, and it gets LOUD and tiresome when driving long distances. One reason I’m interested in ANC headphones with adjustable levels of ANC is so that I could detune that noise some but still hear what’s going on around me.


----------



## JoshG1217 (Jun 4, 2022)

So ended back up with utws5, after I sold it like 6 weeks ago. Haha. Using with Xenns Up. Sounds great. Tried with fh9, which has sooo much potential, but the nozzles are too short! Wth fiio? Otherwise a solid iem, but xenns up takes the cake. Greater instrument separation is the first thing I notice. The treble nozzle really opens up the sound.

At first I didn't like xenns up with utws5, but after some brain burn in, I'm enjoying it.


----------



## J_3000

Got the MTW3. Love the fit. Sound is decent, will write later more detailed about them. Now I started to think, should I try the BeoPlay EX. What do you guys think, worth the extra money considering sound? Besides SQ, calls, usability and battery are important to me also. ANC not really, I rarely or never use it. 

The BeoPlay is super expensive and Im thinking something new will come again soon and I wouldnt want to collect these like some of you do


----------



## tiagopinto

Fleeple said:


> Just got the melomania audio touch....already returning 🙂 Bluetooth is two separate connections, and just kept getting the pop-up that says 'Incorrect Pin'...which Google says would require me to delete all Bluetooth devices connected to my phone and reset my bluetooth. So.....yeah. Just a heads-up to any potential buyers out there.



I have never experienced this with my MT.



Tommy C said:


> That’s a strange one. I had the CA MT before and had multiple issues but BT asking for pin wasn’t one of them and first time seeing it, but yeah they do have two separate BT connections.



If it ever asked me for a pin, I’m sure I typed 0000 and just forgot about it. No biggie anyway. 



Fleeple said:


> Admittedly it happened after I saw there was two connections and had my phone forget them because I thought it was a bug, but that's never caused another pair to have this issue.....



The “sequential” connection is actually smartly implemented. It’ll keep switching master and slave between L and R with no glitches in the sound. This manages battery life really well. And it works well if you’re only using one bud. 

Some rare occasions I only use one bud because transparency is not their best trait... meaning, it works and can be regulated but the MT have great passive isolation and to me it sounds weird with too much transparency percentage on. Hard to explain. 



samandhi said:


> I have had mine since almost launch, and have never seen that error; for myself, nor others complaining about.
> 
> I am not sure about it asking for a pin, but the rest sounds like user error (no offense intended). There WILL be a MT right connection and a MT left connection saved in your BT connections. If it doesn't  automatically connect when pulling them out of the case, you need only click on one of them to connect, and it will connect to both. I think it might say this in the manual if you are still interested.
> 
> IIRC it doesn't connect to both at the same time. It will connect to one as the main, then the IEM will connect to the other one. The reason there are two connections is because when the main gets too far off in battery life (from the other), it will swap to the other as the main.



I wfh mostly but the MT are still my daily driver whenever I leave the house. It seems I always drop them in my pocket... I still like their sound a lot. 

Following your always VERY useful advice, I will keep the MT (for now), get better IEMs (D V’s), eventually get adapters (TW2), then get better TWS (maybe discounted MTW3). We’ll see how LC3 evolves and if Apple implements the codec on their phones (coz I’m probably not buying another kind of phone) but it sounds like a good timeline.

I have become accustomed to the MTs large touch area and occasional mistouch, the very occasional “doesn’t pair at first try” and the weird transparency (for me). But I’ve also got accustomed to their great passive isolation, their great fit with the security of the fins for every sport and mostly for their awesome sound implementation. 
I’ve said many times that at the time they were unbeatable at 130$. The market has evolved A LOT, and they now cost 80$. Now I want better and more so I may but in the up to 250 bracket in TWS. BUT I’d still go for them at 80.


----------



## tiagopinto

Fleeple said:


> Got the sound working but apparently the mic sounded like I was in a crowd of people, so sadly it didn't work out anyways 😞 but thank you all for the help and well-wishes 😊





samandhi said:


> Ah. Sorry to hear that... Judging from your signature, you either know exactly what you want and can't find it, or you have no clue what you are looking for and will know it when you hear it... I wish you luck in finding it though. I have no recommendations because all of my TWS are ancient by now (though to me, still very good); even though they are less than 2 years old....



Kind of an edit on my last post...

I saw the following posts where Feeple did succeed in resetting and pairing them so... I thought “problem solved”. But if you still don’t like them, they’re not for you.

They work very well for me. I just love putting them on and going vinyl shopping, listening to whatever I’m gonna buy. Or hitting the supermarket or riding my bike, or checking the surf. All this without worrying to loose or misplace them (at least as much as I’d do with more expensive ones).

I was also being a little hard on their transparency. It works, not wonders, but it works. Siri works too and phone calls aren’t bad at all. But I guess the sound per price relation is what as always grabbed me.


----------



## tiagopinto

erockg said:


> Few price drops this week: M&D MW08 Sport down to $149 with a charging pad https://www.costco.com/master-%26-d...-wireless-charging-pad.product.100825481.html



I’ve never tried them but I love the looks... that blue... and I’d love to try buttons instead of touch for once. 

Sadly these deals only seem to appear in big markets. Shipping + taxes just kills it. I’d jump on them for 150 with the pad.


----------



## Fleeple

tiagopinto said:


> Kind of an edit on my last post...
> 
> I saw the following posts where Feeple did succeed in resetting and pairing them so... I thought “problem solved”. But if you still don’t like them, they’re not for you.
> 
> ...


I really did appreciate the help, and I really should have tried harder to make them work; they did sound great from the little I had heard, they really did 😊 I just happen to be asking for everything, I suppose. I suppose the transparency on the linkbuds s has also set a rather high bar for me.....these may easily be my final destination, especially if short double flanges solve them falling out over time.


----------



## IChen

Gave a listen to Beoplay EX...thought they sounded best in terms of TWS I've heard so far...but definitely wasn't worth the $400 for me at least since I commute and fly so ANC matters. Guess I'll keep Liberty 3 Pro for now


----------



## Fleeple

tiagopinto said:


> I have never experienced this with my MT.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I'm glad they worked out so well for you 😊😊 I've heard so many good things about them so I just had to try them. If not for the price (and the lack of fins), I feel like you would really love the astell and kerns based on what you're describing. The transparency is incredibly natural, still no anc, I heard decent things about the call quality (until wind was involved) and the touch area was hard to miss.......i only returned them due to the shape of them making my ears hurt. I wish you luck on your potential new journey 😊.


----------



## Fleeple

IChen said:


> Gave a listen to Beoplay EX...thought they sounded best in terms of TWS I've heard so far...but definitely wasn't worth the $400 for me at least since I commute and fly so ANC matters. Guess I'll keep Liberty 3 Pro for now


I do keep hearing that the new sennheiser's are a good mix, so that might be a good fit for you if you'd like? I wish you luck 😄


----------



## IChen

Fleeple said:


> I do keep hearing that the new sennheiser's are a good mix, so that might be a good fit for you if you'd like? I wish you luck 😄



Ah I'll have to give those a try then, thanks!


----------



## DDDYKI (Jun 4, 2022)

How's the MTW3 in major metro areas/population centers? I saw a review at B&H about someone returning theirs because it would constantly drop the connection in New York City, which is where I'd be using these as well. I broke out my wife's old pair of practically new CX400 BT TWS and got plenty of momentary connection drops in the left earpiece within a block of Penn Station. Whether my phone was in my hand or in my back pocket, drops. Reminded me of my bad experience with the Momentum 2 over-ears. I realize everyone's experience will vary based on RFI, source device, and so on, but this has me worried about whatever Sennheiser does with their Bluetooth radios (and I'm sure they're not exactly the same between models, especially models from different years). I don't have this issue with my B&O E8 3.0.

I'm currently looking between MTW3 and the LinkBuds S because I'd like something with ANC, and they're within my budget. But I may lift that requirement so I can consider other options, so long as there's some water resistance for sweat (hello, summer).


----------



## samandhi (Jun 4, 2022)

tiagopinto said:


> I have never experienced this with my MT.
> 
> 
> 
> ...





Fleeple said:


> I really did appreciate the help, and I really should have tried harder to make them work; they did sound great from the little I had heard, they really did 😊 I just happen to be asking for everything, I suppose. I suppose the transparency on the linkbuds s has also set a rather high bar for me.....these may easily be my final destination, especially if short double flanges solve them falling out over time.


Thank you very much!

Though I have said many good things about the MT, CA has really waffled with the updates of these over their lifetime. Sadly, when I first got them, they did not sound very good to me at all. They were VERY bass heavy, and a huge recess in the treble, but the ambient mode was top notch.

Unfortunately (or fortunately, deepening on your view) over time, the sound got much much better, but the ambient mode has suffered greatly. I think it was one of the last two FW updates that did it. They have been tweaking the sound throughout (yet not telling anyone that they had been). Ambient mode still sounds just as loud (the amount is volume adjustable), but now it is terribly digital sounding, and I have a hard time hearing things clearly.

All that being said, now that they seem to be done tweaking them, I am at least supremely happy with the sound and feel safe in recommending them to anyone. I simply don't use ambient mode as much as I used to. I have never had any of the issues that others have complained about. Except one time where I couldn't get one of them to connect without resetting them, they have been pretty flawless for me.

I think that as of last year, we have reached a plateau (at least for sound quality), that even though new stuff is coming out like mad, I would look into some of the older TWS in a heartbeat. Mainly because, while there are some outliers out there, most of the newer ones don't really sound THAT much better than some of the older ones. Features are another story altogether though. I think tech is improving pretty quickly with this segment. I am hoping that once the new codecs drop and are a standard, we can start moving forwards again with sound quality.


----------



## Fleeple

samandhi said:


> Thank you very much!
> 
> Though I have said many good things about the MT, CA has really waffled with the updates of these over their lifetime. Sadly, when I first got them, they did not sound very good to me at all. They were VERY bass heavy, and a huge recess in the treble, but the ambient mode was top notch.
> 
> ...


That's exactly why I've been looking into the snapdragon sound page and the higher-end models 😄 aviot's current high-end (te-21....something.....) sounds like it has FANTASTIC sound, and the few mic samples I've listened to have a lot of promise 😊 that and the new noble falcon anc, I believe it was called. I guess I'm just leery of getting an older model with little to no potential for updates in case something crops up.....and I will also say that if ambient is important to you, you may find yourself loving the astells. The sound is.....it's hard to explain, but it's perfect. It just sounds wonderful in every aspect (with some tweaking), and the ambient is pretty dang good. But these are all the opinions of someone that hasn't even really tried earbuds until January of this year, so your mileage msg vary. Thank you for your breakdown on the Cambridge 😄


----------



## C_Lindbergh

You guys think CA will launch a new version of their Melomania Touch? For me they were deffo the best price to performance ratio ever when it comes to SQ in a tws. Sadly they had so many non sound related issues...

Imagine CA MT 2 with the latest BT chip from Qualcomm along with new features like ANC and with no connection issues!


----------



## Fleeple

C_Lindbergh said:


> You guys think CA will launch a new version of their Melomania Touch? For me they were deffo the best price to performance ratio ever when it comes to SQ in a tws. Sadly they had so many non sound related issues...
> 
> Imagine CA MT 2 with the latest BT chip from Qualcomm along with new features like ANC and with no connection issues!


Their Twitter still has photoshoots of the melomania touch as recently as two days ago, so.....maybe at some point?......


----------



## C_Lindbergh

Fleeple said:


> Their Twitter still has photoshoots of the melomania touch as recently as two days ago, so.....maybe at some point?......



The QCC517 chip should make many more audio OEMs much more interested in Bluetooth audio! It really ticks every single box. Hopefully CA will have another go with that chip


----------



## Fleeple

C_Lindbergh said:


> The QCC517 chip should make many more audio OEMs much more interested in Bluetooth audio! It really ticks every single box. Hopefully CA will have another go with that chip


Does anything use it yet?


----------



## jant71

Deal of the day....


----------



## C_Lindbergh

Fleeple said:


> Does anything use it yet?


Don't think so, it's fairly new. There's not that many devices with BT 5.3/Snapdragon sound anyway atm.  Hopefully we'll see something later this year  

Also personally I might finally switch to a newer Snapdragon SoC if the rumours are true about the upcoming Galaxy S23 (Snapdragon SoC worldwide + larger battery).


----------



## jant71

Getting closer. Just saw this...


----------



## Fleeple

jant71 said:


> Getting closer. Just saw this...


Can any information be found on them?? I haven't really been interested in their recent designs but I'm still intrigued 😊


----------



## jant71

Fleeple said:


> Can any information be found on them?? I haven't really been interested in their recent designs but I'm still intrigued 😊


You can look at the test model pics and quickstart guide in here... https://fcc.report/FCC-ID/JFZTWX9R/


----------



## Fleeple

jant71 said:


> You can look at the test model pics and quickstart guide in here... https://fcc.report/FCC-ID/JFZTWX9R/


That looks really interesting! Still stem, but a different take on the stem from the looks of it.....kinda feels more utilitarian? The case could be a bit bulky, but hopefully the battery power is worth it......thank you very kindly 😊 where do you tend to hear about upcoming earbuds?


----------



## jant71 (Jun 4, 2022)

Fleeple said:


> That looks really interesting! Still stem, but a different take on the stem from the looks of it.....kinda feels more utilitarian? The case could be a bit bulky, but hopefully the battery power is worth it......thank you very kindly 😊 where do you tend to hear about upcoming earbuds?


I would certainly think the finished item will be more polished than that though I do think the inside facing half will still be silicone like for a soft feel some grip.

You can check site for certain brands if there are like the Sony Walkman Blog and check the shows like Tokyo Headphone Fest, Can Jam, CES and the like and for TWS of course they need to file and test them so the FCC list will show new items if you know the company name they use.


----------



## Fleeple

jant71 said:


> I would certainly think the finished item will be more polished than that though I do think the inside parts will still be silicone like for a soft feel.
> 
> You can check site for certain brands if there are like the Sony Walkman Blog and check the shows like Tokyo headphone Fest, Can Jam, CES and the like and for TWS of course they need to file and test them so the FCC list will show new items if you know the company name they use.


Thank you!!! And darn, I kinda like that style but i guess we'll see 😊


----------



## jant71

Fleeple said:


> Thank you!!! And darn, I kinda like that style but i guess we'll see 😊


Buuuuuut, there is a button(and touch)!


----------



## Fleeple

jant71 said:


> Buuuuuut, there is a button(and touch)!


Ooooooo, I've gotta check the pdf again (I just looked at the photos 😅) thank you!!


----------



## samandhi

Fleeple said:


> That's exactly why I've been looking into the snapdragon sound page and the higher-end models 😄 aviot's current high-end (te-21....something.....) sounds like it has FANTASTIC sound, and the few mic samples I've listened to have a lot of promise 😊 that and the new noble falcon anc, I believe it was called. I guess I'm just leery of getting an older model with little to no potential for updates in case something crops up.....and I will also say that if ambient is important to you, you may find yourself loving the astells. The sound is.....it's hard to explain, but it's perfect. It just sounds wonderful in every aspect (with some tweaking), and the ambient is pretty dang good. But these are all the opinions of someone that hasn't even really tried earbuds until January of this year, so your mileage msg vary. Thank you for your breakdown on the Cambridge 😄


Oh, I don't blame you about being leery for "outdated" TWS. But consider that if it is "aged" a bit, they are maybe more likely to have a mature FW set in them, and there might be no need to have another update. Though, the opposite could also be true I suppose... 

I looked at the A&Ks for a bit, but actually decided on the Sony Linkbuds (classic style earbuds), and I am very glad I did. They have absolutely 0 noise cancelling ability, but because they are totally open, they have the best in class ambient mode (even better than true classic flathead earbuds). On that subject, I am never against tweaking the sound a bit as long as the driver(s) overall are good, maybe just tuned a bit off. After all how can a company make some head gear that the sound fits EVERYONE? 

I have a set of Hifiman TWS600 (for instance) that I got for only $40 (right before they were discontinued). Crinacle said in his review of them that they sounded horrible and they sounded like old school mono radio type of sound. Well, he was mostly right, but I noticed that they have a REALLY good quality build and driver inside; typical Hifiman quality, just tuned poorly. I came close with a decent EQ for them, but Crinacle put out an Auto-EQ profile for them. After applying this, I actually find these to have the best sound of ANY TWS I have heard... period. Point is that if it is a great set, but is just tuned a bit whacky, and I can fix them with some EQ, I don't mind it at all. On the other hand I have had some that didn't quite sound good to my ears, but were not able to be EQ'ed much at all... Back they went! 

So really, my experience with anything new is VERY limited as I only own the following (and have not really looked to upgrade to this point, though I may start looking again soon) Back ⬇️ go:


Nuarl N6Pro
CA Melomania Touch (white)
Hifiman TWS600
Sony Linkbuds (not the S version)
Bose Soundsport Free (OG version - given to my son)



C_Lindbergh said:


> You guys think CA will launch a new version of their Melomania Touch? For me they were deffo the best price to performance ratio ever when it comes to SQ in a tws. Sadly they had so many non sound related issues...
> 
> Imagine CA MT 2 with the latest BT chip from Qualcomm along with new features like ANC and with no connection issues!


I certainly hope they do. Their OG Melomania were very popular, and the MT were also popular, even with all the issues and they appeared to listen to input on things that needed fixing, and etc... regarding the MT. If they can take what they already knew, with all of that input, I believe they are capable of making a REALLY good TWS IMO.


----------



## Fleeple

samandhi said:


> Oh, I don't blame you about being leery for "outdated" TWS. But consider that if it is "aged" a bit, they are maybe more likely to have a mature FW set in them, and there might be no need to have another update. Though, the opposite could also be true I suppose...
> 
> I looked at the A&Ks for a bit, but actually decided on the Sony Linkbuds (classic style earbuds), and I am very glad I did. They have absolutely 0 noise cancelling ability, but because they are totally open, they have the best in class ambient mode (even better than true classic flathead earbuds). On that subject, I am never against tweaking the sound a bit as long as the driver(s) overall are good, maybe just tuned a bit off. After all how can a company make some head gear that the sound fits EVERYONE?
> 
> ...


I will say the n6 pro has a newer model now (the n6 pro 2), and the white melomania touch on Amazon doesn't allow for refunds from what I saw; the s, personally, sounds great with some work, but I can see not wanting them as they're a bit weird 😅. I do keep looking at the hifimans, the battery life just makes me leery....i get the notification for a 5-6 hour bud, so 4 would just not work. I wish you luck in your potential/future endeavors, though 😊 stay safe!


----------



## mainguy

Would someone be able to recommend some buds other than airpods pro with a great transparency mode for running/cycling while listening?

Thanks!


----------



## samandhi

Fleeple said:


> I will say the n6 pro has a newer model now (the n6 pro 2), and the white melomania touch on Amazon doesn't allow for refunds from what I saw; the s, personally, sounds great with some work, but I can see not wanting them as they're a bit weird 😅. I do keep looking at the hifimans, the battery life just makes me leery....i get the notification for a 5-6 hour bud, so 4 would just not work. I wish you luck in your potential/future endeavors, though 😊 stay safe!


I was leery about the Sony Linkbuds battery life at first also (because I generally wear them for a whole day at a time), and 5 hours didn't seem like it would get it for me. But, the earpieces are quick charging from the case (even though the case itself is not quick charging at all), and I can charge them 10 minutes for 1 1/2 hours, or 30 minutes for a complete charge from dead. I suppose with something this small, it is pretty hard to pack in a large battery also, so I can totally live with this compromise.

While the Hifimans aren't as quick charging as the Linkbuds, they DO indeed charge pretty quickly, so your downtime may not be that much in the end. WOW! I didn't realize that you can still get the TWS600 (and for $59 direct from their site)?! I thought that they only still had the TWS800 available. Keep in mind if you are looking at the TWS600, they have button control (one on each earpiece right in the middle of the faceplate). So if you are inclined against button control, these may not be for you. Plus, they have no features at all! They just have good sound; though they do isolate (passively) pretty well.  

I WILL also say though, that these are probably the most comfortable TWS I have tried. They fit more like a IEM than a TWS IMO... Even the Tips on them are not typical TWS tips (read, shorter than normal tips). As a matter of fact, I am using a standard set of Final Type E on these. 

Thank you! And I hope you find what you are looking for also?! What type of sound signature do you prefer in a TWS? Harmon, Diffuse, Neutral, etc... As for myself I like very neutral/analytical, with a bit of boosted bass for warmth/fun/lively(ness). A lot of the TWS being put out nowadays have a very boosted bass that is a bit fatiguing to my ears (unless that is the sound I desire at that moment). The MT, for instance started their life (in my house) as this.


----------



## h1a8

jasonb said:


> For TWS, I’m just gonna stick to my AKG N400’s. They sound just how I’d want them to sound with Spinfit tips on them. The ANC could be a tad better, but they are fine. For as little as I actually use portable buds they are perfectly fine.


N400s just sound siblilant, grainy (not smooth and lacking resolution?). They are OK sounding but not great.


----------



## h1a8

Any raw graphs for the Beoplay Ex?


----------



## samandhi

mainguy said:


> Would someone be able to recommend some buds other than airpods pro with a great transparency mode for running/cycling while listening?
> 
> Thanks!


Sony Linkbuds should do that nicely..


----------



## mainguy

samandhi said:


> Sony Linkbuds should do that nicely..


thanks mate, only thing is I want normal ones so I can use them in standard scenarios too  defo pondered the linkbuds though


----------



## samandhi

mainguy said:


> thanks mate, only thing is I want normal ones so I can use them in standard scenarios too  defo pondered the linkbuds though


Just cycle/run with these then?! 



Spoiler: Hifiman Arya


----------



## dweaver (Jun 4, 2022)

mainguy said:


> Would someone be able to recommend some buds other than airpods pro with a great transparency mode for running/cycling while listening?
> 
> Thanks!



The Samsung GBuds Pro are not bad, Technics AZ60 also have decent ambient, I hear the Sony Linkbuds S also have good ANC and are supposed to be very comfortable.

The first 2 can be had for good prices if you shop around and are patient I got both for around $200CAD as compared to the $270-$300cad list prices. Sony is to new so is over priced IMO.


----------



## Fleeple (Jun 5, 2022)

mainguy said:


> Would someone be able to recommend some buds other than airpods pro with a great transparency mode for running/cycling while listening?
> 
> Thanks!


The linkbuds s is pretty good if you can get it to stay in your ear, and I hear fantastic things about the standard linkbuds model 😄 other than that all I can think of is things like the oladance.


----------



## Fleeple

samandhi said:


> I was leery about the Sony Linkbuds battery life at first also (because I generally wear them for a whole day at a time), and 5 hours didn't seem like it would get it for me. But, the earpieces are quick charging from the case (even though the case itself is not quick charging at all), and I can charge them 10 minutes for 1 1/2 hours, or 30 minutes for a complete charge from dead. I suppose with something this small, it is pretty hard to pack in a large battery also, so I can totally live with this compromise.
> 
> While the Hifimans aren't as quick charging as the Linkbuds, they DO indeed charge pretty quickly, so your downtime may not be that much in the end. WOW! I didn't realize that you can still get the TWS600 (and for $59 direct from their site)?! I thought that they only still had the TWS800 available. Keep in mind if you are looking at the TWS600, they have button control (one on each earpiece right in the middle of the faceplate). So if you are inclined against button control, these may not be for you. Plus, they have no features at all! They just have good sound; though they do isolate (passively) pretty well.
> 
> ...


I guess I was looking at the 800 then 😅 whichever one is touch control. I'll agree on the bass, I usually drop that, but beyond that.....i have no idea? I really liked the sound on the eq if that helps, but I normally bump the treble and not sure beyond that. I kinda just fiddle until it sounds as close to right as I can get it 😅


----------



## TooFrank

erockg said:


> My EX had drain, but it seems to be an app misread and maybe a drain at times.  I reset, repaired and removed from my iPhone and other devices.  Set them back up and haven't suffered noticeably since.  I do drop them on the charger every day.  Charged up yesterday afternoon and this morning they were still 100% all around.  B&O has the worst return/exchange process.  They do come through, but the waiting is the hardest part.  I'm sure you've done all those steps to reset.  If they're draining at a 20 click after fully charging them, return them.  Sadly, Amazon and the like do not carry them yet so we're bound to B&O online


I haven't had any problems with my EX - case only looses ca. 1-2% over 24 hours.


----------



## TooFrank

clerkpalmer said:


> Anyone have a set of EX that does NOT have drain?


Yes - mine doesn't. After - admittedly only one test - the case lost only 1-2% in 24 hours


----------



## Fleeple

TooFrank said:


> Yes - mine doesn't. After - admittedly only one test - the case lost only 1-2% in 24 hours


That's really awesome news 😊 I might give them a try if my current set don't work. How good is ambient while listening to music?


----------



## RainyDog

mainguy said:


> Would someone be able to recommend some buds other than airpods pro with a great transparency mode for running/cycling while listening?
> 
> Thanks!



Samsung Galaxy Buds2 have a really natural sounding ambient mode that has adjustable strengths and deals with wind well. Also solid ANC noise cancelling as a bonus when needed.

They're light and tiny too, so should be ideal for running/cycling.

Can be snagged for £50-60 new on eBay.


----------



## Hyperfluxe

Has anyone figured out a workaround to the terrible connectivity issues with the Noble FoKus Pro? They keep disconnecting randomly with some Google Assistant prompt (even though it's disabled) and randomly registers inputs like play/pause without tapping anything on my end. Easily the best TWS for SQ for my taste with excellent passive noise isolation (plus they look amazing) - I prefer a funner sound signature with heftier bass when I'm using TWS outside. In the gym I need ANC because I hate the sound of my heavy deadlifts/squats/my breathing patterns so MTW3 fits the bill just fine especially for staying in ear during heavy pulls although I'm very unimpressed with the sound. I've also tried Beo EQ/EX now, PI7, XM4s, MW08S and a few other I can't care to comment. Hopefully next year's Noble TWS flagship fixes all these issues.


----------



## C_Lindbergh

Basscake said:


> hello to all of you, I'm looking for IEM up to or under 100-200 euros, I like listening to different styles of music, the IEM should be able to cope with highs, mids and lows, since I also like house/electro, the bass shouldn't be too short either come, actually I need a good all-rounder, I would run the IEM on my Xperia 1iv with Tidal, I don't know if I need an amplifier dac, I think good eartips make a lot of difference in the sound, a recommendation would be nice too , I hardly believe that with a maximum of 200 euros, my wishes can be fulfilled, but hope always dies last.
> Thank you all.


For around 200 EUR the Technics AZ60 is pretty unbeatable, might be a tad weak on the bass tho if you enjoy electronic music, its more of an all rounder. Buy you can always order from Amazon in case you need to return it.


----------



## scubaphish

Hyperfluxe said:


> Has anyone figured out a workaround to the terrible connectivity issues with the Noble FoKus Pro? They keep disconnecting randomly with some Google Assistant prompt (even though it's disabled) and randomly registers inputs like play/pause without tapping anything on my end. Easily the best TWS for SQ for my taste with excellent passive noise isolation (plus they look amazing) - I prefer a funner sound signature with heftier bass when I'm using TWS outside. In the gym I need ANC because I hate the sound of my heavy deadlifts/squats/my breathing patterns so MTW3 fits the bill just fine especially for staying in ear during heavy pulls although I'm very unimpressed with the sound. I've also tried Beo EQ/EX now, PI7, XM4s, MW08S and a few other I can't care to comment. Hopefully next year's Noble TWS flagship fixes all these issues.


While I get some connection hiccups, I don’t get anything like what you’re referring to. I get the FoKus voice prompts if I stray too far away from my source, and some mismatches of sound but they catch up to each other pretty quickly. 

My biggest issue with the FoKus is a tiny bit of driver flex when I adjust the right earbud. Nothing earth shattering but I notice it.


----------



## tiagopinto

C_Lindbergh said:


> The QCC517 chip should make many more audio OEMs much more interested in Bluetooth audio! It really ticks every single box. Hopefully CA will have another go with that chip



You, me and a few others have been voicing the desire for this imminent upgrade. Seems like chips are starting to drop with LC3.

I’m wondering how this will work on iPhone. Will it?


----------



## tiagopinto

Basscake said:


> Sorry I need wired iem ,I think that better than Wireless,or not?



Wired will, with the current tech in TWS, sound much better than bluetooth. But this is rapidly evolving. 

With that said, this is the TWS thread, so recommendations will be in this realm. 

Hope you find what you’re looking for.


----------



## jant71

More dribs and drabs on some of the new models...
https://europe.beyerdynamic.com/freebyrd-360-test
Looks like just that so far.


----------



## C_Lindbergh

tiagopinto said:


> You, me and a few others have been voicing the desire for this imminent upgrade. Seems like chips are starting to drop with LC3.
> 
> I’m wondering how this will work on iPhone. Will it?



Well since LC3/LE audio is part of a new standard then Apple will have to implement it. But if I were to guess LC3 won't be there for this years Iphone, prob next year.


----------



## Not so fat head

I implied this before, if anyone has a need for a TWS, one of the more recent products (whatever brand) would work well..  There isn’t any breakthrough on the horizon thats earth shattering.  Small increments at best.
The level of performance achieved so far in TWS, is remarkable…


----------



## jant71 (Jun 5, 2022)

Not so fat head said:


> I implied this before, if anyone has a need for a TWS, one of the more recent products (whatever brand) would work well..  There isn’t any breakthrough on the horizon thats earth shattering.  Small increments at best.
> The level of performance achieved so far in TWS, is remarkable…



We are supposed to have have newer batteries that will charge faster and last longer, of course real loseless, and newer amps to power these things better. I think they will be quite better in sound and you can charge them fully in 10 or15 minutes or less which will be. More than small increments plus there will be new ways to control so we won't have to press buttons or tap touch controls anymore. Even Monster already has the first...





The solar charge is already on a headphone that will use light indoors and out so I'm sure we will have TWS cases where you will never worry about charging again. No plugging in or placing on a pad just so long as you give them some type of light.

It is TWS so I don't think anything would be considered earth shattering but they will much better in the not so distant future. Of course current events are slowing things more as of late. Still stuff now will be dinosaurs. I might not say in a year cause things are slow and so much is being pushed back but nice advancement is on the horizon. I would think a stable connection bit for bit loseless TWS, that you don't have to charge, and control with some face gestures is a big change and that is not counting any other tech or features they come up with. I'm sure we might see more with internal memory than we have and other tricks.


----------



## IChen

Not so fat head said:


> I implied this before, if anyone has a need for a TWS, one of the more recent products (whatever brand) would work well..  There isn’t any breakthrough on the horizon thats earth shattering.  Small increments at best.
> The level of performance achieved so far in TWS, is remarkable…



To be fair, there's still some differences in bluetooth connectivity and ANC for example, that could be dealbreakers


----------



## Not so fat head

Enjoy what’s available…
I work in technology, building read/write heads for disk drives.  Moving tech forward takes tremendous effort, rarely are there leaps.  By far, most chipset advances are adding functions or tweaking existing masks…
Also, many cost considerations knowing that the R&D will need to be spread over many chip updates..
Just check how many tweaked generations of CPU’s are delivered before moving to a new architecture.

Like I say enjoy what’s here now…. 👍


----------



## C_Lindbergh (Jun 5, 2022)

Yeah, it's usually not recomoned to wait for the "new" technology. But we can't deny that the latest developments with BT-technology seems like a huge step forward. Hopefully we'll see some earbuds with BT 5.3/Le Audio later this year 

Can't wait to try a pair of premium TWS with the QCC5171 chip! Even tho I'll need to get a new phone as well! 

https://www.qualcomm.com/products/application/audio/qcc5100-series/qcc5171


----------



## IChen

Not so fat head said:


> Enjoy what’s available…
> I work in technology, building read/write heads for disk drives.  Moving tech forward takes tremendous effort, rarely are there leaps.  By far, most chipset advances are adding functions or tweaking existing masks…
> Also, many cost considerations knowing that the R&D will need to be spread over many chip updates..
> Just check how many tweaked generations of CPU’s are delivered before moving to a new architecture.
> ...



most people are taking this approach though. we look at this as a 1-4 (at most) year purchase where the items are going to be replaced down the line


----------



## Not so fat head

The biggest threats to risky product development right now, are on the supply side.  Large chip foundries are scrambling to supply existing silicon to hundreds of industries.  Basically all booked up with current customer products..


----------



## raymanh

Just came across this video comparison of the Linkbuds S, XM4, Galaxy Buds Pro, and the Airpods Pro. 

It's quite noticeable that going from the Sony's to the Galaxy Buds Pro and Airpods Pro that the soundstage dramatically widens. Is this what it's actually like IRL? 

I mean I just read some reviews and one said the XM4's soundstage was very big and another said the Galaxy Buds Pro's was small. If the video is representative, what was are these reviews on about?


----------



## TooFrank

Fleeple said:


> That's really awesome news 😊 I might give them a try if my current set don't work. How good is ambient while listening to music?


To  be honest, I’m in love with the EX and therefore is biased.😜 The sound is  very very good and that’s why I  bought them. Initially I had a hard time to find a proper fit, but have now the 360 spinfits. I have tried the AZLA xelastics and even though the sound may be a little  better, they hurt my ears.  The ANC is certainly not as good as the Sony XM4 (also with spinfits), but in comparison the EX music quality does not seem to be affected much whether ANC is on or off. This also goes for the transparency mode settings. (Missing a wind noise reduction though).
Hope this may help?


----------



## Fleeple

TooFrank said:


> To  be honest, I’m in love with the EX and therefore is biased.😜 The sound is  very very good and that’s why I  bought them. Initially I had a hard time to find a proper fit, but have now the 360 spinfits. I have tried the AZLA xelastics and even though the sound may be a little  better, they hurt my ears.  The ANC is certainly not as good as the Sony XM4 (also with spinfits), but in comparison the EX music quality does not seem to be affected much whether ANC is on or off. This also goes for the transparency mode settings. (Missing a wind noise reduction though).
> Hope this may help?


It definitely does! Sadly wind noise is a big one to me as I talk on my phone a lot 😅 but thank you for your detailed review 😊😊 (agreed on the spinfits, although they oddly make my ears itch even though they're supposed to be medical-grade so I can't wear them 😅)


----------



## TooFrank

Fleeple said:


> It definitely does! Sadly wind noise is a big one to me as I talk on my phone a lot 😅 but thank you for your detailed review 😊😊 (agreed on the spinfits, although they oddly make my ears itch even though they're supposed to be medical-grade so I can't wear them 😅)


Just a note on the wind: I put them into "neutral" - this is good enough for passive NC and it takes care of the wind - but not as refined as the XM4s.....There are several tips included with the EX, so maybe there is some that will fit your ears


----------



## Ravencroft

Hi guys, might you suggest any alternatives for the Devialet Gemini? I quite like the sound, and the comfort of the earbuds, but the overall build quality and the software leave much to be desired. I quite like the pressure equalisation that they and the AirPods Pro provide. I guess I'm sensitive to the pressure the normal earbuds create. 
I have tried the B&O Beoplay EX, and while the sound was good, they weren't quite as comfortable no matter which tips I used. The Master Dynamic MW08 couldn't stay in my ears for long, and their ANC was way too weak. The Sennheiser Momentum True Wireless felt like a compromise solution. Can't really pinpoint to what exactly, but especially when comparing to the B&O EX and the MW08, they felt like some corners were cut lower the price.


----------



## TooFrank

Ravencroft said:


> Hi guys, might you suggest any alternatives for the Devialet Gemini? I quite like the sound, and the comfort of the earbuds, but the overall build quality and the software leave much to be desired. I quite like the pressure equalisation that they and the AirPods Pro provide. I guess I'm sensitive to the pressure the normal earbuds create.
> I have tried the B&O Beoplay EX, and while the sound was good, they weren't quite as comfortable no matter which tips I used. The Master Dynamic MW08 couldn't stay in my ears for long, and their ANC was way too weak. The Sennheiser Momentum True Wireless felt like a compromise solution. Can't really pinpoint to what exactly, but especially when comparing to the B&O EX and the MW08, they felt like some corners were cut lower the price.


FWIW: While I haven't tried the MW08, I did struggle quite some time to get a proper fit for the EX. For my ears, the wrong thing I did, was to try to insert them as far "as possible" in the ear canal to get a proper seal. It didn't really work out with either the included silicon or comply foams. Weird because the comply's always have made a good fit for me. Then I had the 360 spinfits used with the XM4 in size M. For the XM4s: works like a charm. But with EX not so at all, the M tips disappeared into the ear and made the "body" of the EX sit too tight = bad sound and they hurt! Then I had a size L and tried them on. Discovered that they where to big to go into the ear canal and stayed in the outer ear, while making a very good seal. And suddenly I heard the wonderful sound without any discomfort. (as mentioned above the AZLA xelastic provided very good sound, but didn't have the flexibility of the spinfits and they did hurt after a short time). (Should also be mentioned tha I've compromised on the ANC quality and prioritized the sound).
So to me it has been quite a journey, but now I am very pleased....


----------



## darveniza

mainguy said:


> Would someone be able to recommend some buds other than airpods pro with a great transparency mode for running/cycling while listening?
> 
> Thanks!


Have been using the Sony linkbuds as they are the best for transparency while doing biking. Have used consistently for the last 3 months, one under rated element is the speak to chat feature in which I can pause the audio by just saying a word and the delay to restart is adjustable. Use this a lot when I am going to turn a corner as a lot of EV's in the area and just want to be super sure


----------



## TK33

darveniza said:


> Have been using the Sony linkbuds as they are the best for transparency while doing biking. Have used consistently for the last 3 months, one under rated element is the speak to chat feature in which I can pause the audio by just saying a word and the delay to restart is adjustable. Use this a lot when I am going to turn a corner as a lot of EV's in the area and just want to be super sure


I have also been using Sony Linkbuds for biking.  They have been working great for me as well and I really like how the transparency just feels so natural since it is open and not relying on mics (never tried APP but was previously using Galaxy Buds Live for this purpose).  I wish more TWS had speak to chat as it really is a great feature (it is also perfect for ordering my coffee on my way into the office in the mornings).


----------



## Caipirina

jant71 said:


> Yeah, you are pretty much stuck right now for the snapdragon sound model in the blue from ebay. There is the rose gold one...
> 
> I added it to the cart and it comes out to $159.96 with the faster 6/8 to 6/10(to NY) shipping. I do encourage signing up for Amazon Global since the shipping is fast and the prices are not the ebay seller profit but the normal one. Plus the points you can earn for the next purchase. A bit more protection/back up than ebay will give you as well.


And then there is this Dark Bronze, which I reckon is some special edition kind of thing? Costs extra? Am I blind or do these flagship buds have no ANC? I AM in Japan, but somehow these don't tickle me at all, maybe because I would have no use for that Snapdragon mumbo jumbo


----------



## Fleeple (Jun 6, 2022)

Caipirina said:


> And then there is this Dark Bronze, which I reckon is some special edition kind of thing? Costs extra? Am I blind or do these flagship buds have no ANC? I AM in Japan, but somehow these don't tickle me at all, maybe because I would have no use for that Snapdragon mumbo jumbo


It's a special edition collaboration that was tuned with assistance from Pierre Nakano, so I guess you get it for the color, the collab and the tuning? That's the only difference I saw...and no ANC, aye, although it does have ambient so maybe the passive isolation is good? That's the hope anyway.....i'll put out thoughts when mine arrive 😊


----------



## helmutcheese (Jun 6, 2022)

Seems a revision of the 1-year-old product.






Also, Snapdragon Sound (possibly): https://aviot.jp/product/te-d01m2


----------



## Fleeple

If anyone is interested in the blue model, I potentially found one that is considerably cheaper than the price I paid (I only saw that the seller had good reviews, but have not done any in-depth research at this time).

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1548605565...ztobgjnszy&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY


----------



## jant71 (Jun 6, 2022)

Caipirina said:


> And then there is this Dark Bronze, which I reckon is some special edition kind of thing? Costs extra? Am I blind or do these flagship buds have no ANC? I AM in Japan, but somehow these don't tickle me at all, maybe because I would have no use for that Snapdragon mumbo jumbo


Think I posted earlier the plain, non PNK, non SS, model is $112US before shipping or taxes(think it was the red). Aviot seems to be working out their ANC on lower models first. Improving and installing it in quite a few models including a second gen ANC model a week ago with improved tips and ANC based on "consumer feedback". I guess they are working on an ANC version of this. Perhaps there will be a full redesign since it has been the same for a few years only changing slightly from button to touch and some internal upgrades(f to j).


----------



## erockg (Jun 6, 2022)

erockg said:


> Noble Falcon ANC arrived.  In addition to ANC, they have transparency mode, Qi charging, auto on/off pause when you take them out.  Still trying tips and wings to see what works best to me.  They have good sub bass.  There was a firmware update as soon as I set them up.  Took less than ten minutes.  Pleasantly surprised by the tuning.  Although, you really do not need to EQ them much, I did.  I did my own version of a Harman curve with a little tweaking to my liking.  I'd say these are very much worth the price.  Case is reminiscent of the Falcon and Falcon Pro case.  I'm very surprised that the app enables a TON of customizations.  EQ, button controls, low latency or multipoint mode.  This IMO is what a lot of us want -- customization -- on top of great sound of course.  Rockin' out to the new Def Leppard and I'm not disappointed.  Great sub-bass.  Soundstage is wide.  ANC is mediocre.  It does block out some fans etc, but I'll keep messing with that aspect by changing tips.  I'll also report back if I find any bugs.


Furter to this post, the Falcon ANC may not have better ANC than the MTW3, but whew, they sure do blow them away in sound quality IMO.  Going back and forth today.  Significant difference to my ears.  That said, I did do a little EQing on the Falcon ANC.  MTW3s still suffer from a horrible EQ in the app.  Also, anyone else suffering from poor bt range with the MTW3?  They're the only buds I have right now that stutter when walking into my kitchen.  Bummer.


----------



## Fleeple

erockg said:


> Furter to this post, the Falcon ANC may not have better ANC than the MTW3, but whew, they sure do blow them away in sound quality IMO.  Going back and forth today.  Significant difference to my ears.  That said, I did do a little EQing on the Falcon ANC.  MTW3s still suffer from a horrible EQ in the app.


You're seriously making me consider trying these out 😅 do you suppose the falcon is better than the McGee? 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/en.pifferia.com/a/s/products/mcgee-anc3056-tws-in-ear-headphones?espv=1

They have similar designs and snapdragon sound, but no-one seems to have heard of their existence 😅.


----------



## erockg

Fleeple said:


> You're seriously making me consider trying these out 😅 do you suppose the falcon is better than the McGee?
> 
> https://www.google.com/amp/s/en.pifferia.com/a/s/products/mcgee-anc3056-tws-in-ear-headphones?espv=1
> 
> They have similar designs and snapdragon sound, but no-one seems to have heard of their existence 😅.


Honestly, I’ve never heard of the McGee brand.  I’d definitely go with the Noble Falcon ANC over them. I’ve been a fan of Noble Audio products for quite some time. Looks like they both use the same/similar shell which is something that I’ve seen Noble and others do.  Personally, if you go with Noble you’re paying for their tuning. Jim does a great job. Plus they are like a mom and pop shop and are very attentive if you have any issues. They are known to post on this chain as well.


----------



## Fleeple

erockg said:


> Honestly, I’ve never heard of the McGee brand.  I’d definitely go with the Noble Falcon ANC over them. I’ve been a fan of Noble Audio products for quite some time. Looks like they both use the same/similar shell which is something that I’ve seen Noble and others do.  Personally, if you go with Noble you’re paying for their tuning. Jim does a great job. Plus they are like a mom and pop shop and are very attentive if you have any issues. They are known to post on this chain as well.


Thank you 😊😊 that definitely helps a lot


----------



## Ixon76

Those that bought the Linkbuds S how you getting on with them?

I bought the Linkbuds S the other day just out of curiosity, and now I've sold my WF-1000XM4 because i find them that good, superb comfort for my ears & they don't stick out a mile like the XM4, ANC is more than upto the job & audio quality is good still on the warm side which i like but less so than the XM4, i feel with abit of EQ I can make the Linkbuds S really shine, the only downside is not having wireless charging but it only takes an extra second to plug them in to charge so no biggy really.

Ok so the problem i had with the XM4 was not the fit as i could get them to feel comfy after abit of fiddling around it was just the size, they stuck out of my ears alot to the point i wouldn't wear them outside of the house, unfortunately I'm very self conscious & the Linkbuds S solve that problem for me & i may even consider ditching my Galaxy Buds Live aswell now.


----------



## Fleeple

Ixon76 said:


> Those that bought the Linkbuds S how you getting on with them?
> 
> I bought the Linkbuds S the other day just out of curiosity, and now I've sold my WF-1000XM4 because i find them that good, superb comfort for my ears & they don't stick out a mile like the XM4, ANC is more than upto the job & audio quality is good still on the warm side which i like but less so than the XM4, i feel with abit of EQ I can make the Linkbuds S really shine, the only downside is not having wireless charging but it only takes an extra second to plug them in to charge so no biggy really.
> 
> Ok so the problem i had with the XM4 was not the fit as i could get them to feel comfy after abit of fiddling around it was just the size, they stuck out of my ears alot to the point i wouldn't wear them outside of the house, unfortunately I'm very self conscious & the Linkbuds S solve that problem for me & i may even consider ditching my Galaxy Buds Live aswell now.


They're definitely treating me well; ambient is glorious, the smart location things are awesome, sound can be tweaked decently, mic is good, anc is good, fit is....troublesome. Azla gets me close, but they still fall out after awhile, and double flange (etymotic and cp 240) hurt.....great for most though 😊😊


----------



## mainguy

Fleeple said:


> They're definitely treating me well; ambient is glorious, the smart location things are awesome, sound can be tweaked decently, mic is good, anc is good, fit is....troublesome. Azla gets me close, but they still fall out after awhile, and double flange (etymotic and cp 240) hurt.....great for most though 😊😊


can you guys compare them to any other tws you have?


----------



## gandalftomte

Ok, so I liked the AZ60 when I was using the pre-mounted tips (size M) which fit snuggly (they don't isolate very well), but today I decided to test some of the other tips that came in the box.
First I tested size S1 which also fit well, a bit more comfortable than size M, sound was more or less identical.
And then I tested the other size S they included, the one that is shorter and more ball shaped (called S2), and they were an improvement (although not in the isolation area I fear), they feel even more comfortable, sub bass is reduced a bit (which is a good thing as I find the AZ60 to have a quite intensely tuned sub bass) and mids feel a little bit more forward.

So, now another rabbit hole has opened up... can sound be even more improved?
What other tips have people found matching well with AZ60? Spiral dots? Spinfit? Azla? If so, which versions of the tips etc?


----------



## clerkpalmer

PI7 on sale at Audio46 for 289. Not a bad deal if you can live with the battery.


----------



## tonyfiore75

gandalftomte said:


> Ok, so I liked the AZ60 when I was using the pre-mounted tips (size M) which fit snuggly (they don't isolate very well), but today I decided to test some of the other tips that came in the box.
> First I tested size S1 which also fit well, a bit more comfortable than size M, sound was more or less identical.
> And then I tested the other size S they included, the one that is shorter and more ball shaped (called S2), and they were an improvement (although not in the isolation area I fear), they feel even more comfortable, sub bass is reduced a bit (which is a good thing as I find the AZ60 to have a quite intensely tuned sub bass) and mids feel a little bit more forward.
> 
> ...


This is such a difficult question to answer because fit has such an impact on sound. For example, so many people have recommended the SpinFits that I've bought them numerous times but can never get a fit / seal that works for my ears. I think my ears need the thicker material for whatever reason(s). Having said that, I do own the AZ60s and can't seem to get away from the AZLA tips with them. In fact, I've bought numerous iterations of the AZLAs on Amazon and they all work particularly well for me as compared to just about every other tip manufacturer; and I've tried way too many.


----------



## jant71 (Jun 7, 2022)

Was just using my Yammy today and come home to see this...
https://jp.yamaha.com/products/audio_visual/headphones/tw-e7b/index.html






Yamaha will launch the TW-E7B, the flagship model of its fully wireless earbuds, on June 24.
Based on the sound quality guideline "TRUE SOUND" that the company consistently pursues in home audio products, we pursue the expression of "timbre", "dynamics" and "sound image" without compromise. In addition, by incorporating technologies based on the know-how cultivated by the company, such as "Advanced ANC (Active Noise Cancellation)", "Listening Optimizer" and "Listening Care (Advanced)", it is possible to immerse yourself more deeply in the world of music.

The driver unit adopts a dynamic driver of approximately 10 mm, which is the largest diameter among the company's fully wireless earphones. By increasing the reproduction capacity of the bass range by increasing the diameter of the aperture, we are pursuing rich and generous sound and comfortable spatial expression.

In addition, the structure from the driver unit to the nozzle and the arrangement of the microphone are designed to prevent unnecessary vibration and sound interference. By providing acoustic air holes at the front and rear of the driver, the air inside the housing is carefully controlled and the driver unit's performance is maximized.







The maximum continuous playback time is about 6 hours for the earphones alone, and about 22 hours when charging in the case. Bluetooth is version 5.2 and the codecs support aptX Adaptive/aptX/AAC/SBC.

In addition, it adopts a Qualcomm audio SoC and supports True Wireless Mirroring, a left-right independent transmission method that realizes stable voice transmission, and cVc function that reduces noise during voice calls. It is also equipped with an external sound capture function (ambient sound) and a "gaming mode" that reduces the gap between video and audio.

It also supports the dedicated smartphone application "Headphone Control". You can check the status of the main unit such as battery level, turn on / off functions such as listening care (advanced), customize the sound quality by equalizer, etc. Among them, the equalizer is designed according to the acoustic characteristics of the earphone body.

Kinda looks like a CLEER ALLY and XM4 were engaging in some adult behavior and XX days later this was born. Hey, I don't know the gestation period for TWS. 

Think the black looks the best on this one. Like I said today I went back to the Yammy E5B today after spending most all my time with my Hiby cable/CCA and they were quite good and so agreeable. easy to just push in and fit. I barely need to twist. About one second to connect, never had a drop which is pretty good as I was using my Cowon which is BT3.0 and I both had it in my pocket and ran some full court basketball leaving the DAP on one end and turning my back to it and running 50-60 feet away quite often. Sounded a bit bigger than I usually give it credit for esp. since the CRA is very airy and being powered by the 4331 is very good for those who want stage. Even though the E5B were a little thick sounding early on but I know they are pretty flat so went to check and I had the Mach3 bass preset left on.

I'd have to say I'd put these E7B on my list to try. I notice they moved the two buttons apart more which is better for bigger fingers from the E5B which is essential a rocker switch so not apart with one side having a nub to tell it apart. I'll give the E5B credit for being totally reliable, easy to fit and use, and quite satisfying for fit sound quality and ambient. Maybe the out of the box bad stock tips needed to be figured out but been smooth sailing after that on every aspect.


----------



## jant71

Maybe decent budget ANC from Mifo?? https://www.amazon.com/Wireless-Can...refix=true+wireless+earphones,aps,151&sr=8-40


----------



## MattSPL

I just received a pair of 1MORE Evos and would like to try some different brand ear tips. I believe the Spinfit cp1025 will fit. 
Can anybody who owns the Evos advise what size spinfits I need to order? I’m using one size up from the pre installed Evo tips. 
Thanks


----------



## samandhi

jant71 said:


> Was just using my Yammy today and come home to see this...
> https://jp.yamaha.com/products/audio_visual/headphones/tw-e7b/index.html
> 
> Yamaha will launch the TW-E7B, the flagship model of its fully wireless earbuds, on June 24.
> ...


Very interesting! But, what's the deal with the flattened rabbit turd looking thing that looks so out of place on these?


----------



## Fleeple

jant71 said:


> Maybe decent budget ANC from Mifo?? https://www.amazon.com/Wireless-Cancelling-Headphones-Waterproof-Bluetooth/dp/B0B2W8LLH8/ref=sr_1_40?crid=1STAWPPWEZ86J&keywords=true+wireless+earphones&qid=1654629484&sprefix=true+wireless+earphones,aps,151&sr=8-40


I will say that their hifipods had pretty crappy mics and the same ip rating, so if that's important to you some reviews might be nice before giving these a try.....thank you for posting about cool new tech 😄


----------



## jant71

Fleeple said:


> I will say that their hifipods had pretty crappy mics and the same ip rating, so if that's important to you some reviews might be nice before giving these a try.....thank you for posting about cool new tech 😄


Yep, you hope with newer they get better regardless of price but you don't know. A better design than the Hifipods though.


 Both stemmed and with a proper screen. Mics are part of it but proper conduit is also important. Too many just drill holes in the housing and that can makes mics sound worse than they even are and also create that channel echo effect. Still in the execution though. Either they did better or not. They need to since the $50 budget ANC is a competitive range now. More of  sheeple buying $40-$50 than our type buying $200-$400 stuff. Or just another forgettable one.


----------



## scubaphish

Speaking of new stuff, I don’t recall seeing belkin’s name come up with entrant to the market, but here we are…

https://www.belkin.com/us/p/p-auc003/


----------



## jant71 (Jun 7, 2022)

samandhi said:


> Very interesting! But, what's the deal with the flattened rabbit turd looking thing that looks so out of place on these?


Seems to be something to do with another inside mic there...
"The Listening Optimizer uses an in-microphone mounted inside the housing to measure the transmission characteristics of the sound actually ringing in the ear and compare it with the transmission characteristics used as a reference."



Supposed to do something worthwhile I guess.


----------



## samandhi

jant71 said:


> Seems to be something to do with another inside mic there...
> "The Listening Optimizer uses an in-microphone mounted inside the housing to measure the transmission characteristics of the sound actually ringing in the ear and compare it with the transmission characteristics used as a reference."
> 
> Supposed to do something worthwhile I guess.


Weird but cool, I suppose. Are these actually made by Yamaha I wonder?


----------



## jant71 (Jun 7, 2022)

samandhi said:


> Weird but cool, I suppose. Are these actually made by Yamaha I wonder?


Probably the usual designed by the brand and built in conjunction with the Chinese OEM they work with. Looking through my paperwork for the Yammy it is Kingstate electronics. https://www.kingstate.com.tw/about/21


----------



## samandhi

jant71 said:


> Probably the usual designed by the brand and built in conjunction with the Chinese OEM they work with. Looking through my paperwork for the Yammy it is Kingstate electronics. https://www.kingstate.com.tw/about/21


Kind of figured. Like Marshall head gear and Zound. Thanks for looking into that!


----------



## jant71

samandhi said:


> Kind of figured. Like Marshall head gear and Zound. Thanks for looking into that!


Think Sony is big enough. Few can make their own without help. Many are just "made in China" but they don't say who with or where.


----------



## samandhi

jant71 said:


> Think Sony is big enough. Few can make their own without help. Many are just "made in China" but they don't say who with or where.


Yeah, but if they are like Marshall, they have absolutely nothing to do with any processes of the device. The only thing that is Marshall about their head gear is the name only (and some reminder of what a Marshall type item might look like). I am aware that a lot of companies have done this, and I don't really have much issue with it. Matter of fact I still have the OG Marshall Monitors, and still like them a lot. 

I was curious to know if anyone knew if it was the same with Yammy devices. And again, thanks to you, now I know. But I DO think that Yamaha is plenty big enough to do this stuff in house if they wanted to. And given their history in music (keyboards, orchestra instruments, stereo amplifiers, etc...) one would think that they (as well as Marshall for that matter) could do it in house also. Maybe they just don't have time what with making motorcycles, lawnmowers, etc... Or maybe they never planned on it being a permanent venture and didn't want to spend the money to set up production and assets. They can just send some specs and have it subcontracted out. If it fails, then they don't lose anything but materials and manhours (nothing really to consider assets)??? Who knows?!

With all that being said, were the previous Yamaha TWS any good? I have read mixed reports on them.


----------



## FYLegend

RainyDog said:


> Samsung Galaxy Buds2 have a really natural sounding ambient mode that has adjustable strengths and deals with wind well. Also solid ANC noise cancelling as a bonus when needed.
> 
> They're light and tiny too, so should be ideal for running/cycling.
> 
> Can be snagged for £50-60 new on eBay.


Agreed, their transparency is much better than the Buds+ in that they stay at a constant volume. I would not recommend the Buds+ because their ambient mode starts at a higher volume and drops gradually as it adjusts to your surroundings so you must reset it each time it is exposed to sounds that are too loud (doesn't matter what level you set it as, it decreases after a period). After April 2020 they added this wind noise filter which for me ruined the ambient mode -  when a car passes or some other similar sound, the audio pans around the wrong way due to trying to remove wind noise, which could be very dangerous outdoors! It also just sounds strange and silent at times, almost like you're hearing ANC with sudden sounds coming in. I actually don't mind transparency mode that has a slight hiss in comparison.


mainguy said:


> Would someone be able to recommend some buds other than airpods pro with a great transparency mode for running/cycling while listening?
> 
> Thanks!



Some budget options include SoundPeats T2 and TaoTronics SoundLiberty 94. The TaoTronics has a bunch of annoying quirks and features (you REALLY have to keep them charged regularly as the buds can't be powered off if the case is depleted), but the nice thing they have is that they automatically go into ambient mode when you're using the earbuds individually. The SoundPeats has a great transparency mode overall but might be a bit too "wide", so sounds in the centre are a bit fainter than when they are at the side.

Jabra Elite 3 has a decent transparency mode - I haven't been able to compare it directly to the T2 and 94 but there is a slight muffled tone and delay and I do feel like I have to turn the volume way down to hear people talking. If you clap your hands or snap your fingers it doesn't sound as crisp due to a slight delay but it's good enough to do something like play the piano while playing music (if your volume is low).

After about a week I feel like my first impressions still hold true. My biggest problem with these is they have a high noise floor/hiss compared to many other TWS. After more prolonged usage driver flex is also apparent on the left bud, with this "sucked in" fit. Maybe I'm getting a good seal and it's just in my head but it just makes me feel like the left side sounds more congested than the right, and when I'm using these for sleeping on one side I can actually hear the driver crinkle and audio distort.

I just received the Soundcore Liberty 3 Pro. Pretty impressed with it out of the box but it is a more lean/bright sound bordering on sibilance. My other annoyance is that the flanges have a tendency to flip backwards when I take them out of my ears. I'm getting a good seal but it's annoying having to flip them back especially if my hands are not clean.


----------



## jant71

samandhi said:


> Yeah, but if they are like Marshall, they have absolutely nothing to do with any processes of the device. The only thing that is Marshall about their head gear is the name only (and some reminder of what a Marshall type item might look like). I am aware that a lot of companies have done this, and I don't really have much issue with it. Matter of fact I still have the OG Marshall Monitors, and still like them a lot.
> 
> I was curious to know if anyone knew if it was the same with Yammy devices. And again, thanks to you, now I know. But I DO think that Yamaha is plenty big enough to do this stuff in house if they wanted to. And given their history in music (keyboards, orchestra instruments, stereo amplifiers, etc...) one would think that they (as well as Marshall for that matter) could do it in house also. Maybe they just don't have time what with making motorcycles, lawnmowers, etc... Or maybe they never planned on it being a permanent venture and didn't want to spend the money to set up production and assets. They can just send some specs and have it subcontracted out. If it fails, then they don't lose anything but materials and manhours (nothing really to consider assets)??? Who knows?!
> 
> With all that being said, were the previous Yamaha TWS any good? I have read mixed reports on them.


Yep, well there are all different levels. From taking an existing OEM model and just branding/packaging to designing and building their own. Fairly sure Yamaha is their own designs in pretty much all aspects but when you go from plain wired earphones and headphones to wireless with software and chips is where many need the help. Yamaha named Kingstate and the TW-E5B is "Designed by Yamaha Corporation". It is Usually money reasons to use a partner esp. when starting out. Then some may spend on their own production if they deem it worth the investment.  

The first round for Yamaha had the fair share of letdowns. The 3A was solid and sounded decent but when they went up and tried to do more they messed up mostly with bad connection quality and case issues and needing better mics and ANC. The app seemed not so hot either. I bought the E5B cause I felt they would be sure the new ones would not suffer from those issues so it would be a safe choice and the design was solid one for the fit, mic design, and control set up. They are just not tiny and neither are the new 7B.


----------



## jant71

Lots of open stuff coming out lately. The BOSE, Linkbuds, Oladance, Nearphones, ARC, Acreo openbuds, etc. Not quite sure they are worth the price tag but I did want a wireless open style. So, I grabbed a pair of Smabat M Pro for $25 to put on my Hiby WU1. Open box, good price and looked pretty much like new so good on that front. Also, after reading up they sounded right for BT as far as the tuning. So far quite good. They have some sub bass and with foams quite fine for bass amount and reach and pretty rich. better than I thought. Mids a bit sensitive to EQ with buds so they move up and back more than an in ear but you do get a more open sound with buds. Good part is they don't need little bass added really so less chance to push the mids back. Still a bit bright up top even after an BT high cut. Crisp detailed and airy but maybe some presets can be a little harsh but again we are on the other end from the consumer smooth TWS sound and there is no need to liven up the highs here. I doubt any of the open offerings would sound as good nor can they convert to wired if needed. Also $100 total is cheaper than most of the other options as well.




They also remind me of an old minidisc player I used to have...


----------



## C_Lindbergh

Finally LE audio for the Android 13 beta 3


----------



## mt877

jant71 said:


> Lots of open stuff coming out lately. The BOSE, Linkbuds, Oladance, Nearphones, ARC, Acreo openbuds, etc. Not quite sure they are worth the price tag but I did want a wireless open style. So, I grabbed a pair of Smabat M Pro for $25 to put on my Hiby WU1. Open box, good price and looked pretty much like new so good on that front. Also, after reading up they sounded right for BT as far as the tuning. So far quite good. They have some sub bass and with foams quite fine for bass amount and reach and pretty rich. better than I thought. Mids a bit sensitive to EQ with buds so they move up and back more than an in ear but you do get a more open sound with buds. Good part is they don't need little bass added really so less chance to push the mids back. Still a bit bright up top even after an BT high cut. Crisp detailed and airy but maybe some presets can be a little harsh but again we are on the other end from the consumer smooth TWS sound and there is no need to liven up the highs here. I doubt any of the open offerings would sound as good nor can they convert to wired if needed. Also $100 total is cheaper than most of the other options as well.
> 
> They also remind me of an old minidisc player I used to have...


Smabat is going for the whole shooting match with their crowd funded upcoming release M4. Wired flathead earbuds, IEM and true wireless module.


----------



## Fleeple

mt877 said:


> Smabat is going for the whole shooting match with their crowd funded upcoming release M4. Wired flathead earbuds, IEM and true wireless module.


These look so interesting but I genuinely would love to know more about the true wireless module functionality


----------



## samandhi

jant71 said:


> Lots of open stuff coming out lately. The BOSE, Linkbuds, Oladance, Nearphones, ARC, Acreo openbuds, etc. Not quite sure they are worth the price tag but I did want a wireless open style. So, I grabbed a pair of Smabat M Pro for $25 to put on my Hiby WU1. Open box, good price and looked pretty much like new so good on that front. Also, after reading up they sounded right for BT as far as the tuning. So far quite good. They have some sub bass and with foams quite fine for bass amount and reach and pretty rich. better than I thought. Mids a bit sensitive to EQ with buds so they move up and back more than an in ear but you do get a more open sound with buds. Good part is they don't need little bass added really so less chance to push the mids back. Still a bit bright up top even after an BT high cut. Crisp detailed and airy but maybe some presets can be a little harsh but again we are on the other end from the consumer smooth TWS sound and there is no need to liven up the highs here. I doubt any of the open offerings would sound as good nor can they convert to wired if needed. Also $100 total is cheaper than most of the other options as well.
> 
> They also remind me of an old minidisc player I used to have...


I have not heard those, but if they are anything like the M2s Pro, they are pretty great (though the M2s Pro has a quick change harness to change drivers, and filters to make them sound different). The ST10S gold (150Ohm) are like the M2s Pro but with much better bass IMO. Having an MMCX changeable cable on flathead buds makes them even more valuable, because you can use those BT adapters on them. 


Fleeple said:


> These look so interesting but I genuinely would love to know more about the true wireless module functionality


You should keep your eye on this thread as the release time nears. I am pretty sure they will be discussed (in depth) when the drop.


----------



## jant71 (Jun 8, 2022)

samandhi said:


> I have not heard those, but if they are anything like the M2s Pro, they are pretty great (though the M2s Pro has a quick change harness to change drivers, and filters to make them sound different). The ST10S gold (150Ohm) are like the M2s Pro but with much better bass IMO. Having an MMCX changeable cable on flathead buds makes them even more valuable, because you can use those BT adapters on them.
> 
> You should keep your eye on this thread as the release time nears. I am pretty sure they will be discussed (in depth) when the drop.


Two things I would worry about. Moisture protection for the TWS module? and fit with TWS module using flathead style. Over the ears locks the M Pro in and I can also use the Senn fins for sport...

Straight down I have issues in my right ear. The right side being not as stable and moving some and losing bass making them go out of balance is a concern.


----------



## samandhi

jant71 said:


> Two things I would worry about. Moisture protection for the TWS module? and fit with TWS module using flathead style. Over the ears locks the M Pro in and I can also use the Senn fins for sport...
> 
> Straight down I have issues in my right ear. The right side being not as stable and moving some and losing bass making them go out of balance is a concern.


You definitely picked a good brand for being versatile. Unlike a lot of other flathead buds, these were designed to be worn over ear OR straight down if you like. Heck the ST10S Gold actually come with an over-ear cable only... 

I like the setup you have for these. They look comfy!


----------



## jant71

samandhi said:


> You definitely picked a good brand for being versatile. Unlike a lot of other flathead buds, these were designed to be worn over ear OR straight down if you like. Heck the ST10S Gold actually come with an over-ear cable only...
> 
> I like the setup you have for these. They look comfy!


I knew the Hiby is two pin but I had those adapters that both shroud over the hiby connectors and protect them and add the right length for over the ear so they don't pull out at all. Then I noticed the little machined ring they have and the size of the Senn fins and they work like they were made for each other. Comfy, stable, and worked out as well as I hoped. Even turns the labyrinth maze vent away from facing up which should be safer for any moisture.


----------



## mt877

Fleeple said:


> These look so interesting but I genuinely would love to know more about the true wireless module functionality
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yeah, I think the TWS module is still a work in progress and Smabat hasn't released any news / specs yet. Just speculation, from the looks of it the TWS module (just like the wired base) can be used for either IEM or Bud modules. Eh, just did a search for a Smabat FCC bluetooth filing, but no hits.


----------



## Fleeple

samandhi said:


> I have not heard those, but if they are anything like the M2s Pro, they are pretty great (though the M2s Pro has a quick change harness to change drivers, and filters to make them sound different). The ST10S gold (150Ohm) are like the M2s Pro but with much better bass IMO. Having an MMCX changeable cable on flathead buds makes them even more valuable, because you can use those BT adapters on them.
> 
> You should keep your eye on this thread as the release time nears. I am pretty sure they will be discussed (in depth) when the drop.


Thank you 😄😄😄


----------



## dmphile

A quick update on my beoplay EX. I'm no longer getting battery drain on the case. Weird but it seemed to work itself out. Left case fully charged and after 24 hrs it was still 100%.


----------



## DigDub

Got the Sony Linkbuds S today. I like the sound signature, elevated treble and sub bass is prominent. Mids are clear too. The size of the buds are very small, the case size too.

A weird phenomenon I get is the buds will sometimes go to mono when I pair with another device and switch back to the original device.


----------



## Fleeple

DigDub said:


> Got the Sony Linkbuds S today. I like the sound signature, elevated treble and sub bass is prominent. Mids are clear too. The size of the buds are very small, the case size too.
> 
> A weird phenomenon I get is the buds will sometimes go to mono when I pair with another device and switch back to the original device.


On a somewhat similar note; maybe just me, but the buds will sometimes kick back to my phone when I'm on a call. Other times, I'll completely lose the ability to use touch controls until I pop them back in.....no software updates have fixed this yet.


----------



## Fleeple (Jun 9, 2022)

To any that may be interested; aviots arrived today, and my lord.....once I fiddled with the eq (there's an app but you've gotta grab the apk if you're not in Japan as far as I can tell) it sounded.....mmph. Early days, but the fit is dang solid as well. I'm wiggling my ears and while they move around, they haven't fallen out yet. Touch controls are great thus far, and you can customize them too (no shortcut for assistant use that I can find though); still need to walk around with these and call someone, but as first thoughts go.....these are really REALLY doing it for me.

I will say that ambient doesn't sound the greatest, though, but time will tell.


----------



## DigDub

Fleeple said:


> On a somewhat similar note; maybe just me, but the buds will sometimes kick back to my phone when I'm on a call. Other times, I'll completely lose the ability to use touch controls until I pop them back in.....no software updates have fixed this yet.


I experienced the call switching back to the phone when on a phone call too. I thought it was because the buds were updating the firmware hence the switching. So it's a bug. I haven't experienced the touch issue yet though, maybe it will show up soon. I'm liking the sound signature and size for now though.


----------



## vrsx (Jun 9, 2022)

have some question, already ask this in some other forums but dont get good answer

so currently my only portable cans is galaxys buds 2, the rest is desktop setup with headphone .... i use buds 2 only for workout and mainly for watching film while cardio, and didnt listen to music while doing weight cause buds 2 anc isnt that good to me, and the music at my gym is too loud ... but dont really mind cause its hotel gym and barely any people there and i can request music

but now i kinda miss listening with iem (used to own b2, oxygen, mangird tea) , and maybe need to travel often for works in the future ... and currently im interested in sony wf xm4 and linkbuds s
so does both of them give great improvement from buds 2? how's the anc compare to buds 2?

or maybe is better buy good iem like shuoer s12 & timeless and stay with buds 2 or just buy xm4?  and my portable source is s21 & poco f3, but gonna use f3 more often
and i listen to all genre , but my easy to go music is pop, rock, and orchestra


----------



## Ceeluh7

vrsx said:


> have some question, already ask this in some other forums but dont get good answer
> 
> so currently my only portable cans is galaxys buds 2, the rest is desktop setup with headphone .... i use buds 2 only for workout and mainly for watching film while cardio, and didnt listen to music while doing weight cause buds 2 anc isnt that good to me, and the music at my gym is too loud ... but dont really mind cause its hotel gym and barely any people there and i can request music
> 
> ...


It's up to you whatever use case works best for you. The Galaxy Buds 2 have a dif sound sig than the XM4's. I would call the Xm4 an upgrade for sure if you figure in the whole package. As far as just getting another set of iems, you will always get better sonic fidelity going that route however obviously not as portable. Truthfully there is just sooo many tws iems out there that perform very well. It's all up to you man. What makes the most sense for your life. You could also always get an iem and purchase an adapter like the Fiio Utws3 or Utws5. Or I use quite alot my IFi Go Blu or Qudelix 5k with an iem and that is bonkers nice


----------



## jant71 (Jun 9, 2022)

JVC trying to beat JBL in the race to release the most TWS. At it again with the XC72T.




https://www.jvc.com/jp/headphone/lineup/ha-xc72t/

So, just recently they have put out the Riptidz TWS, Nearphones, new XX, and the HA-A30T. Add the Kenwood as well for 5 in the last month.


----------



## tonyfiore75

dmphile said:


> A quick update on my beoplay EX. I'm no longer getting battery drain on the case. Weird but it seemed to work itself out. Left case fully charged and after 24 hrs it was still 100%.


I'm starting to think the drain maybe is more from an inaccurate misrepresentation in the B&O app than actually any kind of hardware issue.


----------



## vrsx

Ceeluh7 said:


> It's up to you whatever use case works best for you. The Galaxy Buds 2 have a dif sound sig than the XM4's. I would call the Xm4 an upgrade for sure if you figure in the whole package. As far as just getting another set of iems, you will always get better sonic fidelity going that route however obviously not as portable. Truthfully there is just sooo many tws iems out there that perform very well. It's all up to you man. What makes the most sense for your life. You could also always get an iem and purchase an adapter like the Fiio Utws3 or Utws5. Or I use quite alot my IFi Go Blu or Qudelix 5k with an iem and that is bonkers nice



thx for the answer !
i mean back then many people said tws price/performance still lower compare to wired iem in the same price bracket at least for sound quality ... but im not sure now as buds 2 is my first tws and its been long time since im searching about iem

for me buds 2 kinda okay-ish, neutral tuning with a little bit bass boost and nothing special ... for $89 (price i bought), i guess its kinda worth it
and yeah i know xm4 have warm-ish tuning compare to buds2, but if the sound quality can be compare to wired iem around the same price i guess im gonna blind buy it than buy wired iem 

and for tws, the brands that have official distributor here only apple, samsung, sony, the rest mostly only have store warranty, and sometimes the warranty process can be up to 1-2 months if the store dont have backup unit 

and the thing is return policy in my country is only for defect unit, so i cant return it if i dont like it, and dont have any demo unit for any audio stuff in my city except speakers stuff


----------



## Fleeple

Fleeple said:


> To any that may be interested; aviots arrived today, and my lord.....once I fiddled with the eq (there's an app but you've gotta grab the apk if you're not in Japan as far as I can tell) it sounded.....mmph. Early days, but the fit is dang solid as well. I'm wiggling my ears and while they move around, they haven't fallen out yet. Touch controls are great thus far, and you can customize them too (no shortcut for assistant use that I can find though); still need to walk around with these and call someone, but as first thoughts go.....these are really REALLY doing it for me.
> 
> I will say that ambient doesn't sound the greatest, though, but time will tell.


Further thoughts after a night's rest; ambient works, it definitely pulls in your surroundings and you can set how much the music lowers itself in the app settings, although it does sound a bit like a snowstorm at the moment. 

General playback can have a bit of white noise of you're listening for it without music playing, but it's nothing too awful; I have yet to make a call test, but I'll keep this updated as best I can.


----------



## jant71

Fleeple said:


> Further thoughts after a night's rest; ambient works, it definitely pulls in your surroundings and you can set how much the music lowers itself in the app settings, although it does sound a bit like a snowstorm at the moment.
> 
> General playback can have a bit of white noise of you're listening for it without music playing, but it's nothing too awful; I have yet to make a call test, but I'll keep this updated as best I can.


Wasn't it pause music out of the box. Or does it have both like many of the Japan TWS where one side is ANC/ambient/Off cycle and the other side does quick ambient that pauses or lowers music volume. I know my Aviot is cheaper and simpler so it just pauses music/turns ambient on.

I would think you should expect a bit of hiss as they are hopefully giving enough power for the three drivers.  So, you will have enough pop that you hear a bit of hiss is not surprising. Of course if they put higher quality and price amp chips in they wouldn't put these out at $150. Another brand that would be nice if they went even better than they choose to.


----------



## Fleeple

jant71 said:


> Wasn't it pause music out of the box. Or does it have both like many of the Japan TWS where one side is ANC/ambient/Off cycle and the other side does quick ambient that pauses or lowers music volume. I know my Aviot is cheaper and simpler so it just pauses music/turns ambient on.
> 
> I would think you should expect a bit of hiss as they are hopefully giving enough power for the three drivers.  So, you will have enough pop that you hear a bit of hiss is not surprising. Of course if they put higher quality and price amp chips in they wouldn't put these out at $150. Another brand that would be nice if they went even better than they choose to.


It has the option to, but it's an either/or setup in the app😊 if that's the norm then I can maybe get used to it, depending on how good ambient is. Though I will also say that passive noise isolation is pretty poor thus far; I'll try other tips, but food for thought. Thanks for your take 😄. No ANC sadly.


----------



## jant71

Fleeple said:


> It has the option to, but it's an either/or setup in the app😊 if that's the norm then I can maybe get used to it, depending on how good ambient is. Though I will also say that passive noise isolation is pretty poor thus far; I'll try other tips, but food for thought. Thanks for your take 😄. No ANC sadly.


Depends on your use. If you only use it to talk to others then you might want to pause especially if you are doing podcasts and are paying attention to what characters are doing/saying.

If they tips are the same they are to firm to conform and seal like other types of tips may. Quality construction on the tips but not great to seal and give lower bass amount.

Those have the leash right? I like the leash idea but guess it doesn't work with the case.


----------



## Fleeple

jant71 said:


> Depends on your use. If you only use it to talk to others then you might want to pause especially if you are doing podcasts and are paying attention to what characters are doing/saying.
> 
> If they tips are the same they are to firm to conform and seal like other types of tips may. Quality construction on the tips but not great to seal and give lower bass amount.
> 
> Those have the leash right? I like the leash idea but guess it doesn't work with the case.


It does indeed, you are correct; I hadn't noticed 😅. I'm sorry if I explained poorly; it can absolutely be set to pause on ambient mode being activated, you simply choose which setting you prefer in the companion app 😊. I'll try different tips and see if that helps, thank you kindly 😄.


----------



## jant71

Fleeple said:


> It does indeed, you are correct; I hadn't noticed 😅. I'm sorry if I explained poorly; it can absolutely be set to pause on ambient mode being activated, you simply choose which setting you prefer in the companion app 😊. I'll try different tips and see if that helps, thank you kindly 😄.


So, just how is it tuned anyhow? Assuming you figured it out with tips you are familiar with.


----------



## h1a8

Any frequency (raw) graphs of the beoplay ex?


----------



## Fleeple

jant71 said:


> So, just how is it tuned anyhow? Assuming you figured it out with tips you are familiar with.


It's honestly quite hard to explain? Smooth is the closest I can manage.....silicon tips lower it's bass significantly, and the isolation really isn't stellar. Eating with these in is also terrible, as the noise inside your head echoes considerably. I've....quite honestly, I've already started the return process. The linkbuds s are really hard to top as an all-rounder 😅.


----------



## FYLegend

On my Galaxy Note 9 it took me a while to realize I wasn't using LDAC even though I had enabled it in the SoundCore app. In Developer settings it would show I was using AAC even with the earbuds set to LDAC mode. Then I realized I had to go into my phone's Bluetooth settings and press the settings icon of the Liberty 3 Pro to toggle LDAC on.

Another very dumb quirk is you can enter pairing mode by holding the earbuds for 5 seconds in normal AAC mode, but when you're in prefer LDAC mode you can't do it at all. It would make it far more convenient in the case you can't use multipoint connection in prefer LDAC mode. The Technics AZ60 can now let you use LDAC with multipoint so I wonder if Anker could make a similar update (but I doubt it).

I find the seal of the Liberty 3 Pro to be good overall, but at times it does feel a tad insecure, especially if I'm wearing a mask. ANC is good at removing constant noises but speaking voices still come through fairly clearly unfortunately. One quirk I've noticed with this is I can sometimes hear a rumble or popping sound on my left bud, I noticed the same thing with the 1More dual driver ANC, I think it's how the large housings sit on my ear canal and it gets crinkly if its a bit sweaty. On the 1Mores the housings actually creaked when squeezed so I wonder if that was part of it. It doesn't bother my me as much with the right earbud.

The touch controls are too sensitive and I find them cumbersome to fit into the charging case, often ending up pressing the touch sensors as a result. I have it set to play/pause but am thinking it might be less intrusive to have it as volume up and down for a single tap)

As for sound, I feel like I need to give it a few days. In their default tuning I feel like these have a very broad U shape sound with hot treble and thick bass. I'm normally not sensitive to sibilance but it is fairly noticeable on these.


----------



## Fleeple

For those that were curious.....the Belkin Soundform Immerse is on sale now. Not exactly a ton of reviews, but early specs seem promising. 

Belkin SOUNDFORM Immerse Noise Cancelling Earbuds, True Wireless Earbuds with Hybrid ANC, Wireless Charging, IPX5 Sweat and Water Resistant, Apple Find My for iPhone, Galaxy, Pixel and More - White https://a.co/d/ey5OWh5


----------



## Juturna

I've gotten my CCA CRAs to use with my CCA BTX, finally. 

I'm impressed for the price, but they required quite a lot of EQ:ing in Wavelet to be listenable to me. That treble really hurts my ears, I actually have had a hard time EQ:ing them to a point where it's not either a) too sibilant or b) treble reduced to a point where it loses the sparkle up top way too much. 
I thought they were going to be waaay to heavy with the bass right away, but that wasn't too bad in my opinion, it was just the treble that bothered me, especially the lower parts of the treble frequencies. I wish the vocals were a bit more in front as well, but it wasn't as recessed as I was worried it would be. 

What I do enjoy is the separation and sound stage, seems better than most TWS's I've used.


----------



## Juturna (Jun 10, 2022)

FYLegend said:


> On my Galaxy Note 9 it took me a while to realize I wasn't using LDAC even though I had enabled it in the SoundCore app. In Developer settings it would show I was using AAC even with the earbuds set to LDAC mode. Then I realized I had to go into my phone's Bluetooth settings and press the settings icon of the Liberty 3 Pro to toggle LDAC on.
> 
> Another very dumb quirk is you can enter pairing mode by holding the earbuds for 5 seconds in normal AAC mode, but when you're in prefer LDAC mode you can't do it at all. It would make it far more convenient in the case you can't use multipoint connection in prefer LDAC mode. The Technics AZ60 can now let you use LDAC with multipoint so I wonder if Anker could make a similar update (but I doubt it).
> 
> ...


Do you have any experience with the Technics AZ60? Would love to hear a comparison between the AZ60 and the Liberty 3 Pro, not at their default tuning but... at their respective best. I'm not a huge U/V-shape fans so I think I would be bothered by the treble of the Liberty 3 Pro, but they seem good otherwise!

(Because I've used the Technics and thought they were pretty good, but I've been curious but cautious regarding the Liberty 3 Pro because they seem to get very mixed reviews due to mostly the treble and sibilance and weird "metallic-ness" to the vocals I think)


----------



## clerkpalmer

tonyfiore75 said:


> I'm starting to think the drain maybe is more from an inaccurate misrepresentation in the B&O app than actually any kind of hardware issue.


Definitely not in my case. The case would be dead in 2-3 days with no use.


----------



## samandhi

Juturna said:


> I've gotten my CCA CRAs to use with my CCA BTX, finally.
> 
> I'm impressed for the price, but they required quite a lot of EQ:ing in Wavelet to be listenable to me. That treble really hurts my ears, I actually have had a hard time EQ:ing them to a point where it's not either a) too sibilant or b) treble reduced to a point where it loses the sparkle up top way too much.
> I thought they were going to be waaay to heavy with the bass right away, but that wasn't too bad in my opinion, it was just the treble that bothered me, especially the lower parts of the treble frequencies. I wish the vocals were a bit more in front as well, but it wasn't as recessed as I was worried it would be.
> ...


This actually surprises me. I have read some few others offering the same thoughts regarding the treble on the CRA, but for the most part most people that I have read their thoughts about on these think the treble is really well done for a budget set. The thing is that not only do I find them not harsh at all, but I actually EQ the quantity of treble up a bit. I begin to wonder at what frequency you are referring to that seems to be the major spike on these?

I AM older, so I have a hard time hearing too much over 12k (it is there, but at a much lower volume than is normal), but anything under that I can hear just fine (I am especially intolerant to the presence region). Also, what sort of music are you listening to that actually gets sibilant for you (I do know they don't really like low quality music very much IMO)? I listen to pretty much everything, but metal (and its forms) is my go-to listening "druthers". 

Also, have you listened to them wired and directly from a DAP/source? Or, are you possibly not getting a good fit with them? It isn't a huge deal for me, I am just curious when I do see comments about the treble being harsh on these, and only then because I find them to be quite the opposite IMHO?! 

On another subject, how do you find the CCA BTX to be? Have you listened to it with any other IEMs? Until you mentioned it, I had not heard they had a BT adapter.


----------



## jant71 (Jun 10, 2022)

Over BT I add some treble at 3k and 9k to the CRA. I do think the stock tips are not the right choice. I reduce bass a smidge. Thinking less bass and easily sibilant is probably not the best fit.

They may need some time to cook and for the right tips to be found.

@Juturna, cny change with high power mode vs normal on the BTX?


----------



## samandhi

jant71 said:


> Over BT I add some treble at 3k and 9k to the CRA. I do think the stock tips are not the right choice. I reduce bass a smidge. Thinking less bass and easily sibilant is probably not the best fit.
> 
> They may need some time to cook and for the right tips to be found.
> 
> @Juturna, cny change with high power mode vs normal on the BTX?


Yeah, they DO have some bass that's for sure! Normally I would also dial it down where the quantity is concerned, but I find with the CRA, that the bass, while boosted, is very controlled, linear, and non-fatiguing. Nor does it bleed over into the Mids (IMO). So, when I have a bass craving (thoughts of my younger bass-head days come to play every once in a while), I will throw these into my ears. 

But you are probably right. They might need to just settle a bit, and tips are definitely a potential at play here. Though, IME I really like the stock tips (the ones on them from the factory fit me perfectly). I find these tips, and the IEMs in general to fit my ears just right.


----------



## Juturna

samandhi said:


> This actually surprises me. I have read some few others offering the same thoughts regarding the treble on the CRA, but for the most part most people that I have read their thoughts about on these think the treble is really well done for a budget set. The thing is that not only do I find them not harsh at all, but I actually EQ the quantity of treble up a bit. I begin to wonder at what frequency you are referring to that seems to be the major spike on these?
> 
> I AM older, so I have a hard time hearing too much over 12k (it is there, but at a much lower volume than is normal), but anything under that I can hear just fine (I am especially intolerant to the presence region). Also, what sort of music are you listening to that actually gets sibilant for you (I do know they don't really like low quality music very much IMO)? I listen to pretty much everything, but metal (and its forms) is my go-to listening "druthers".
> 
> ...


It could absolutely be several things, but I think it realized just now why I think it sounds too treble-heavy. I'm not 100 sure, but I think the earhooks themselves are fitted in a way that sort of "drags" or tilts the earbuds slightly out from the ear canal, it's like the loop that goes around your ear would need to be slightly longer. So it sits pretty decently, but it's not nestled as deep in the ear canal as they should be. I tried putting the earbuds in and letting the earhook just "hang" and I could see myself thinking that I would want to raise some parts of the treble if I EQ'd based on that. 

*Anyone else have any fit issues like that, is it a universal thing I would have to worry about if I get Fiio's or Shure TW2s because my ears are weird (?), or would this be dependent on the earbud style itself? *

Also no, I just got the CCA BTX two weeks ago and the CCA CRAs yesterday, so i'm entirely new to the earhook TW adapter thingies. They seem good enough for what they are except the obvious fit issues that I'm not even sure can be attributed to the adapters themselves. Good sound, easy controls. Seems like people wouldn't recommend them over the KZ AZ09 Pro though, I bought them on a whim because I read that somebody said it would fit regular 2-pin IEMs without modding (which isn't correct), soooo.


----------



## samandhi

Juturna said:


> It could absolutely be several things, but I think it realized just now why I think it sounds too treble-heavy. I'm not 100 sure, but I think the earhooks themselves are fitted in a way that sort of "drags" or tilts the earbuds slightly out from the ear canal, it's like the loop that goes around your ear would need to be slightly longer. So it sits pretty decently, but it's not nestled as deep in the ear canal as they should be. I tried putting the earbuds in and letting the earhook just "hang" and I could see myself thinking that I would want to raise some parts of the treble if I EQ'd based on that.


Ah. That could absolutely cause harsh sounding trebles. Sorry to hear your experience has not been good on these. Maybe you will have to stick with wired only on these?! 

Thanks for your feedback!


----------



## jant71

Juturna said:


> It could absolutely be several things, but I think it realized just now why I think it sounds too treble-heavy. I'm not 100 sure, but I think the earhooks themselves are fitted in a way that sort of "drags" or tilts the earbuds slightly out from the ear canal, it's like the loop that goes around your ear would need to be slightly longer. So it sits pretty decently, but it's not nestled as deep in the ear canal as they should be. I tried putting the earbuds in and letting the earhook just "hang" and I could see myself thinking that I would want to raise some parts of the treble if I EQ'd based on that.
> 
> *Anyone else have any fit issues like that, is it a universal thing I would have to worry about if I get Fiio's or Shure TW2s because my ears are weird (?), or would this be dependent on the earbud style itself? *
> 
> Also no, I just got the CCA BTX two weeks ago and the CCA CRAs yesterday, so i'm entirely new to the earhook TW adapter thingies. They seem good enough for what they are except the obvious fit issues that I'm not even sure can be attributed to the adapters themselves. Good sound, easy controls. Seems like people wouldn't recommend them over the KZ AZ09 Pro though, I bought them on a whim because I read that somebody said it would fit regular 2-pin IEMs without modding (which isn't correct), soooo.



They don't particularly appeal to me that much. I think for the controls and the mics the proper placement would be just in front of the ear. Then a more Aurvana Air like guide could go behind the ear. Then a wire with the connector can come out of the module and move freely to fit.


----------



## Techguy17

I’m wondering how Senn MTW3 users are liking their earbuds after a little time with them.  I’ve decided to post several of current buds for sell on here (MW08, MW07+ & Bose QC) and try something new.  The MTW3s are leading my list.  I was hoping for more new releases this spring (thinking B&W) but only Senn’s!
​


----------



## Abovetheair

Searched a bit on this thread to no avail and even googled this ... much of the information seems outdated.


darveniza said:


> Have been using the Sony linkbuds as they are the best for transparency while doing biking. Have used consistently for the last 3 months, one under rated element is the speak to chat feature in which I can pause the audio by just saying a word and the delay to restart is adjustable. Use this a lot when I am going to turn a corner as a lot of EV's in the area and just want to be super sure



Custom molded IEM's w/ Bluetooth capabilities? Does this currently exist? (IE: airpod pros, but with the perks of IEM's). Or should I look to an IEM + custom sleeve? 

I've been doing a lot of cycling training and the pods feel like they're hanging by a thread at times around corners and have completely fallen off during HIIT rides.


----------



## samandhi

Abovetheair said:


> Searched a bit on this thread to no avail and even googled this ... much of the information seems outdated.
> 
> 
> Custom molded IEM's w/ Bluetooth capabilities? Does this currently exist? (IE: airpod pros, but with the perks of IEM's). Or should I look to an IEM + custom sleeve?
> ...


Not sure why you referenced the Linkbud here (unless that is what you are after), but AFAIK, custom IEMs with BT don't exist in the commercial retail world. You might be able to find someone that can make them, but you might have an easier time of it getting custom IEMs and use a BT adapter like: Fiio UTWS5 BT Adatper or something like it (there are a bunch out there currently).


----------



## Fleeple

Abovetheair said:


> Searched a bit on this thread to no avail and even googled this ... much of the information seems outdated.
> 
> 
> Custom molded IEM's w/ Bluetooth capabilities? Does this currently exist? (IE: airpod pros, but with the perks of IEM's). Or should I look to an IEM + custom sleeve?
> ...


https://custom.ultimateears.com/pro...bd6tkZoJgRR3oYZStoIu4O3TxSOslPBRoCrdIQAvD_BwE 

or maybe 

https://custom.ultimateears.com/pro...RUkdrcpgYjyjjr1BM3fJyXCYpxm8PNRoCKJoQAvD_BwE? 

There was another one but those might be somewhere to start 😄


----------



## jant71 (Jun 11, 2022)

Of course Gamesky is Gamesky. "I'm sure people will think you sound good on calls". Maybe call a couple people and report back what they say. Lazy and very stick to the outline churn it out kinda guy. Though still a bit useful and finds some things . With a new brand he doesn't usually check the brand out well. Case in point the Lavabeans having the E11 for cheaper when he was reviewing the E10. Of course while this is a pretty cool design, not futuristic, you could check out Amazon and Acefast has a model for $4 cheaper that does low latency and has better battery life if you so choose. They also have or will have these T7...




https://acefast.com/catalog/audio/tws-headset-t7-unrivalled/
Seems it isn't out here in the US just yet. The T6 was first available on Amazon on May 22 and the T4 in late March so this might be worth looking out for. Even their T1 gets good impressions for the sound. Looks like a good size and shape and might be very good sound for around $80 - $99.  Not sure about a stainless steel case  maybe it has a silicone cover like the T6 model.


----------



## erockg

Fleeple said:


> https://custom.ultimateears.com/pro...bd6tkZoJgRR3oYZStoIu4O3TxSOslPBRoCrdIQAvD_BwE
> 
> or maybe
> 
> ...


UE used to offer their custom IEMs with the Fostex TM2 true wireless adapter, but for some reason stopped.  Back then a rep told me they were developing a native tws.  Haven't heard anything since so maybe it's not happening.  I used to have the Bragi Dash Pro Starkey Edition and those were custom molded TWS.  They were awesome, but then Bragi sold off their tech and bowed out of the biz.  Sad.  Since then, no one has tried to do it again.


----------



## mt877

Abovetheair said:


> Searched a bit on this thread to no avail and even googled this ... much of the information seems outdated.
> 
> 
> Custom molded IEM's w/ Bluetooth capabilities? Does this currently exist? (IE: airpod pros, but with the perks of IEM's). Or should I look to an IEM + custom sleeve?
> ...


Maybe try the Airpod customizable ear clips by Decibullz? They will work with AirPods Pro with a small catch. Decibullz support page which addresses an issue of covering a wear sensor on AirPods Pro.

Ear clip before and after molding example





Fully molded to fit example





Molding on a dummy ear example


----------



## jant71

I for one, would ask if custom fit for cycle training is a good idea? BC noise and heat build up. Maybe even heartbeat. I would think that is too much seal. Would think loosening or falling out is better addressed with an earhook model or some attachment for the APP.


----------



## jasonb

samandhi said:


> Thank you very much!
> 
> Though I have said many good things about the MT, CA has really waffled with the updates of these over their lifetime. Sadly, when I first got them, they did not sound very good to me at all. They were VERY bass heavy, and a huge recess in the treble, but the ambient mode was top notch.
> 
> ...


I ended up sending mine back to them because of the changes in sound from firmware updates. I was not a fan of them doing this at all.


----------



## samandhi

jasonb said:


> I ended up sending mine back to them because of the changes in sound from firmware updates. I was not a fan of them doing this at all.


I don't blame you, though I thought the changes for the better in this case.


----------



## Uncle00Jesse

So I left my Liberty Pros in the back seat pocket of the plane yesterday and need a new pair. I honestly don’t care that much about sound quality since I have my Olinas and full size rig for that. My biggest use case is sleeping, and having one bud in one side during work. I’ve had airpod pros and didn’t love the fit, they fell out of my ears too easily. Also had XM3s in the past and liked them a lot but they were tad big and unwieldy. 

Any suggestions on what I should get? Thanks!


----------



## DigDub

Uncle00Jesse said:


> So I left my Liberty Pros in the back seat pocket of the plane yesterday and need a new pair. I honestly don’t care that much about sound quality since I have my Olinas and full size rig for that. My biggest use case is sleeping, and having one bud in one side during work. I’ve had airpod pros and didn’t love the fit, they fell out of my ears too easily. Also had XM3s in the past and liked them a lot but they were tad big and unwieldy.
> 
> Any suggestions on what I should get? Thanks!


The new Sony Linkbuds S (the one with the silicone tips) are excellent for sleeping with. They are very small and side sleeping with them is extremely comfortable. I've fallen asleep with them for 2 nights in a row since getting them and waking up without any sore spots in my ears.


----------



## DigDub

Ok so I've discovered the issue with the Linkbuds S sound turning to mono and touchpad not working is due to the wear sensor. The sensor sometimes doesn't detect the earbud is being worn, so the sound turns to mono as if only one bud is in use and the touchpad on the side which the sensor fails to detect will not work. A simple fix is to take the affected earbud out and cover it with a finger and put it back into the ear and it will work again.

I've also EQ as below to bring up the treble and mid bass to give more "meat" to the mids.


----------



## Fleeple

DigDub said:


> Ok so I've discovered the issue with the Linkbuds S sound turning to mono and touchpad not working is due to the wear sensor. The sensor sometimes doesn't detect the earbud is being worn, so the sound turns to mono as if only one bud is in use and the touchpad on the side which the sensor fails to detect will not work. A simple fix is to take the affected earbud out and cover it with a finger and put it back into the ear and it will work again.
> 
> I've also EQ as below to bring up the treble and mid bass to give more "meat" to the mids.


Does that mean it's not an issue that can be fixed with patches?....because that seems like it would get annoying over time


----------



## dweaver

The Linkbuds S are intriguing for me. I hope they go on sale soon. At $300 CAD they are just about to rich for my blood. 

For now I have been using the GBuds Pro the past couple days and have been enjoying them.

How are the Linkbuds S for sound especially in the mids and treble area. I had the XM3 and found the treble in particular to soft and the over all signature a bit to dark and everything I read suggested the XM4 was even darker. So hoping the S are more like older Sony signatures.


----------



## DigDub

Fleeple said:


> Does that mean it's not an issue that can be fixed with patches?....because that seems like it would get annoying over time


I think it can be fixed by a firmware update. It seems like a software issue rather than a hardware one, as covering the sensor and uncovering it makes it work again.


----------



## DigDub

dweaver said:


> The Linkbuds S are intriguing for me. I hope they go on sale soon. At $300 CAD they are just about to rich for my blood.
> 
> For now I have been using the GBuds Pro the past couple days and have been enjoying them.
> 
> How are the Linkbuds S for sound especially in the mids and treble area. I had the XM3 and found the treble in particular to soft and the over all signature a bit to dark and everything I read suggested the XM4 was even darker. So hoping the S are more like older Sony signatures.


They aren't exactly Harman curve, I'd say it's somewhere between xm3 and xm4. You can use the app to EQ the buds to your liking.


----------



## Fleeple

DigDub said:


> I think it can be fixed by a firmware update. It seems like a software issue rather than a hardware one, as covering the sensor and uncovering it makes it work again.


I sincerely hope you're right....


----------



## regancipher

DigDub said:


> I think it can be fixed by a firmware update. It seems like a software issue rather than a hardware one, as covering the sensor and uncovering it makes it work again.


Shorter tips like the CP1025 might help


----------



## regancipher

jant71 said:


> Over BT I add some treble at 3k and 9k to the CRA. I do think the stock tips are not the right choice. I reduce bass a smidge. Thinking less bass and easily sibilant is probably not the best fit.
> 
> They may need some time to cook and for the right tips to be found.
> 
> @Juturna, cny change with high power mode vs normal on the BTX?


I've tried everything but I just can't make the CRA sound good. I do wonder what I'm doing wrong.... It's not like I don't own around 100 sets of TWS/IEM's so I'd have expected to have eeked something out by now. I've tried tips to constrain the trebles, I've tried Wavelet. I've even tried going cold turkey from music for a while and going back to them. Maybe they just aren't for me. I bought two CCA sets at the same time - CRA and NRA - and have just confined both to the bottom of my iem basket. Even at that price far better tuned options IMO


----------



## Fleeple

regancipher said:


> Shorter tips like the CP1025 might help


I've tried about 5 pairs of tips at this point 😅


----------



## DigDub

regancipher said:


> Shorter tips like the CP1025 might help


I don't think it's a tip issue. The issue usually happens at the start of putting the buds in the ear and I'm pretty sure the buds are already snug in my ear. It's as if the detection sensor is slow to wake up.


----------



## B-Dawk20

I think....I've been reading this thread for over an hour now and scouring the whole of head-fi for a bit longer looking for the best IEMs for myself . I don't think I've been more confused about a headphone market in my life LOL. I recently have been convinced to bite the bullet on the TWS route to upgrade over my Soundcore Q20, which to be honest? Sounds terrible. I'm really looking for a more neutral sound but I wouldn't mind something more lively or musical if it didn't sound muffled or bloated. I thought increasing my budget up to $300 would solve the issue but it seems to have made it worse @___@. The WM4, Momentum, MW07, and others....I just can't seem to find something that seems worth taking a dip. Don't really care about features really...as long as its closed and doesn't hurt my ears (obviously hard to gauge) then I'm good. This headphone market seems rough....


----------



## darveniza

If anyone is interested, selling a TWS bundle at a very good price


----------



## darveniza

darveniza said:


> If anyone is interested, selling a TWS bundle at a very good price


Posted on Classifieds ear monitors


----------



## DDDYKI

I mentioned in the dedicated thread for them that I bit the bullet on the MTW 3 last week and think I'm satisfied. It was between them and the LinkBuds S but I went Momentum based on battery life (and a slight regret at missing the MTW 2 in favor of the B&O E8 a few years ago). The stock eartips were just OK so I went from them to Sedna TWS to SpinFit 360 to 1025, and the 1025 give me the best fit. Much better fit than the AZ60 as I can get these seated properly and not have to fiddle around to mitigate ear pain. I'll try stock again at some point because I really like the idea of the filter protecting the drivers from wax.
I will miss LDAC (most of my files are ripped FLACs). Touch and wear sensors are nice and fast. Noise cancellation does a serviceable job; as some have said, sometimes you don't notice a difference when switching it. And the signal is just fine in a few trouble spots in midtown Manhattan.


----------



## jant71

regancipher said:


> I've tried everything but I just can't make the CRA sound good. I do wonder what I'm doing wrong.... It's not like I don't own around 100 sets of TWS/IEM's so I'd have expected to have eeked something out by now. I've tried tips to constrain the trebles, I've tried Wavelet. I've even tried going cold turkey from music for a while and going back to them. Maybe they just aren't for me. I bought two CCA sets at the same time - CRA and NRA - and have just confined both to the bottom of my iem basket. Even at that price far better tuned options IMO


Ears and gears do differ plus they seem quite sensitive to these things like tips and outputs. I don't like them at all when you start to give them just a decent amount of power. The bass go south and gets smeared. So there are plenty of reports of them going wrong in both directions and people needing to change the screens to tame them at 5K. I mostly use them with my Cowon which has matured over the years from a more digital sound and too much treble to smoother and more natural so I usually add treble to most things. NRA is a slightly cheaper magnetostat which even the pricier one needs work so that is probably out. I know they are toning down the highs in each newer models like the EDX Ultra and ESX.


----------



## Juturna

DigDub said:


> They aren't exactly Harman curve, I'd say it's somewhere between xm3 and xm4. You can use the app to EQ the buds to your liking.



I was thinking about the Linkbuds S but I don't think I will enjoy them more than finding them "okay". I had both the XM3's and the XM4's, and I thought they were only okay for the most part with some annoyances that were just too much for me with the XM4's, some that have been fixed from what I've heard. 
I couldn't deal with the fact that the XM4's changed the characteristics of the sound by an extreme amount as soon as you hit the 50% volume mark, I needed to change the EQ settings several times a day because of that lol. 
Overall think all Sony TWS i've tried have had way too narrow of a soundstage and somewhat poor imaging in my opinion, leaving it sounding very "mushy" and "in-my-head" even with their app EQ. 

To be fair I haven't tried their earbuds with Wavelet or anything and I could probably get them to sound better if I did... but that would be if the XM4's weren't made in a way that my ears did not agree with. My ear canals are pretty big, but I guess my outer ears weren't made for the Sony's, because they never sat flush in my ears no matter what I tried, just jutting out completely from my ears if I positioned them for the best audio possible. 


regancipher said:


> I've tried everything but I just can't make the CRA sound good. I do wonder what I'm doing wrong.... It's not like I don't own around 100 sets of TWS/IEM's so I'd have expected to have eeked something out by now. I've tried tips to constrain the trebles, I've tried Wavelet. I've even tried going cold turkey from music for a while and going back to them. Maybe they just aren't for me. I bought two CCA sets at the same time - CRA and NRA - and have just confined both to the bottom of my iem basket. Even at that price far better tuned options IMO



I agree. They sound_ acceptable_ to me, but I don't see any reason why I would listen to them over my TWS's, even the cheaper ones that I don't really use much anymore. 
For me I think it's a bit of a fit issue and also just... sure I can EQ them, but it doesn't sound like they... WANT to sound that way lol, it strikes me as sounding unnatural.
They're not for me anyway, we'll see if I try any other KZ/CCA earbuds again, I'm afraid that the CCA BTX just makes earbuds sit super weird in my ears because the hooks are kinda too short... and I'm not a fan of wires.


----------



## jant71 (Jun 13, 2022)

If you ask me my $40 JVC TWS beats with aptX the CRA wired(with a better cable even). Over BT I don't think the EX could beat the CRA. I think the N6 pro 2 and Yamaha don't embarrass themselves but the WU1/CRA is a clear winner. Anyone can read the reviews and there is both big praise and not big praise at times. I have experienced both with the same pair. 


edit: Was out today and swapped back to the CRA from the Smabat M Pro. Damn if these drivers are not impressive for something so cheap. Don't blame the these are $200 good people even if some hyperbole. The extension both ways is legit good and the thin drivers are capable of great dynamics and pulling a lot out of recordings. Emotion from instruments, awesome separation and resolution is impressive. Just a whole nother level there than so many up to $100 IEMS and $200 TWS can do. Tuning not the best it could be. Perhaps not the most accurate timbre on bass and cymbals you will hear. But silly for $10 what they can pull out. A big window to stick your head out and cleanly hear so much. I won't knock them for that price that they needed more tuning work and they don't like power and and can go wrong from source to source. You don't get that level of fine tuning and work on the stability to perform consistent across various outputs at this price. If they work for you, you get more ability than you should expect.


----------



## Not so fat head

B-Dawk20 said:


> I think....I've been reading this thread for over an hour now and scouring the whole of head-fi for a bit longer looking for the best IEMs for myself . I don't think I've been more confused about a headphone market in my life LOL. I recently have been convinced to bite the bullet on the TWS route to upgrade over my Soundcore Q20, which to be honest? Sounds terrible. I'm really looking for a more neutral sound but I wouldn't mind something more lively or musical if it didn't sound muffled or bloated. I thought increasing my budget up to $300 would solve the issue but it seems to have made it worse @___@. The WM4, Momentum, MW07, and others....I just can't seem to find something that seems worth taking a dip. Don't really care about features really...as long as its closed and doesn't hurt my ears (obviously hard to gauge) then I'm good. This headphone market seems rough....


Hi B-Dock20
Anything over $150 with a reputable vendor will, in my opinion, sound good.
I’ve yet to find anything $99 and under with standout audio quality.  Others will most likely disagree here, but I’m talking really good audio…
All of my cheaper TWS headphones are in bags or some drawer…
Like discarded toys from Toy Story..  😃
Mostly you get what you pay for.


----------



## Fleeple

DDDYKI said:


> I mentioned in the dedicated thread for them that I bit the bullet on the MTW 3 last week and think I'm satisfied. It was between them and the LinkBuds S but I went Momentum based on battery life (and a slight regret at missing the MTW 2 in favor of the B&O E8 a few years ago). The stock eartips were just OK so I went from them to Sedna TWS to SpinFit 360 to 1025, and the 1025 give me the best fit. Much better fit than the AZ60 as I can get these seated properly and not have to fiddle around to mitigate ear pain. I'll try stock again at some point because I really like the idea of the filter protecting the drivers from wax.
> I will miss LDAC (most of my files are ripped FLACs). Touch and wear sensors are nice and fast. Noise cancellation does a serviceable job; as some have said, sometimes you don't notice a difference when switching it. And the signal is just fine in a few trouble spots in midtown Manhattan.


How would you rate the comfort? I just got the belkin soundform immerse and they definitely stay in, but the earhooks wear on my ear rather quickly....


----------



## B-Dawk20

Not so fat head said:


> Hi B-Dock20
> Anything over $150 with a reputable vendor will, in my opinion, sound good.
> I’ve yet to find anything $99 and under with standout audio quality.  Others will most likely disagree here, but I’m talking really good audio…
> All of my cheaper TWS headphones are in bags or some drawer…
> ...



This has been my experience so far lol. I think I owned a few from Anker and some JVC stuff just because I needed something at the time and they all sounded....like I wasted my money <_<


----------



## DigDub

Juturna said:


> I was thinking about the Linkbuds S but I don't think I will enjoy them more than finding them "okay". I had both the XM3's and the XM4's, and I thought they were only okay for the most part with some annoyances that were just too much for me with the XM4's, some that have been fixed from what I've heard.
> I couldn't deal with the fact that the XM4's changed the characteristics of the sound by an extreme amount as soon as you hit the 50% volume mark, I needed to change the EQ settings several times a day because of that lol.
> Overall think all Sony TWS i've tried have had way too narrow of a soundstage and somewhat poor imaging in my opinion, leaving it sounding very "mushy" and "in-my-head" even with their app EQ.
> 
> ...


My experience with the xm4 and the Linkbuds S are actually quite different from yours. I don't notice any changes on sound when the battery runs low. The soundstage is also one of the most spacious I've heard in a tws. Maybe it's because of the tips you are using with the xm4?


----------



## DDDYKI

Fleeple said:


> How would you rate the comfort? I just got the belkin soundform immerse and they definitely stay in, but the earhooks wear on my ear rather quickly....


A little better now with the CP1025. I did not expect to like the shallower tips compared to the fuller CP360 or the stock tips. I do fidget with the pieces occasionally, but that's also partly up to nerves. The fins on the Immerse look slightly more pronounced than the MTW3. I'm not sure I've found much of a purpose for the fins on MTW3 and that's another part of why I do fidget with them occasionally. My next experiment is to take the fins off and see how the pieces hold in my ear walking around indoors. I put the large fins on last week so I could try to get the curve to hook into my ear, but I don't think it makes much of a difference.


----------



## jant71

Not that they are world beater's but I might try my first Mifo since I have a gift card so no real cost anyhow. The HiFi Air have been getting solid reviews anyhow even though most are just the two sentence type customer type. https://www.qucox.com/mifo-fiitii-hifiair-review/
Turns out they are a hybrid...




I like how the fit seems quite good as well. Also like the control scheme with volume being one press and ANC modes being a long press. Though I don't like that there is no real off mode just ambient, mild ANC and strong ANC but I do like that ANC strength is on board so it is still adjustable for DAPs that can't do apps. Might take a shot from Amazon when they drop on the 16th.

Still like to play in the budget area. Lavabeans were/are a winner, Aviot for $40 was cool style but just okay overall. $40 JVC HA-A11T has aptX, good sound and fit and usable ambient. No complaints outside of a boxy case. Simgot still the best range and really nice looks and fit just too thick of a sound. not sure I paid that much for them. Think I came across at like $25 sale and took a shot. Would love to open them up and swap in a better driver. Lavabeans sound with MTW5 range would be a nice combo.


----------



## Fleeple

DDDYKI said:


> A little better now with the CP1025. I did not expect to like the shallower tips compared to the fuller CP360 or the stock tips. I do fidget with the pieces occasionally, but that's also partly up to nerves. The fins on the Immerse look slightly more pronounced than the MTW3. I'm not sure I've found much of a purpose for the fins on MTW3 and that's another part of why I do fidget with them occasionally. My next experiment is to take the fins off and see how the pieces hold in my ear walking around indoors. I put the large fins on last week so I could try to get the curve to hook into my ear, but I don't think it makes much of a difference.


Thank you very kindly 😊 that helps immensely


----------



## DHLA

Been using the FiiO UTSW3 and, while the sound was generally okay (a bit much noise floor depending on model), I found the fit just didn't work well for me, and the mics weren't great. Just upped to Shure Aonic TW2 adapters and love the fit and feel - but trying to optimize for the IEMs I normally use here, which are:

Campfire Audio Andromeda (2019)
Campfire Audio Mammoth
Campfire Audio Honeydew
Shure SE215 (old pair)

Obviously for the SE215 I know which model to select, but I'm definitely hearing some not-great things done to the Andromeda sound that I like when selecting a model from the ShurePlus Play app. Ideally I'd love to just have a control to optimize for impedance and leave any other changes to the EQ. In the mean time, can anyone recommend which of the Play app models might be the best fit for the Andromeda?


----------



## FYLegend

Juturna said:


> Do you have any experience with the Technics AZ60? Would love to hear a comparison between the AZ60 and the Liberty 3 Pro, not at their default tuning but... at their respective best. I'm not a huge U/V-shape fans so I think I would be bothered by the treble of the Liberty 3 Pro, but they seem good otherwise!
> 
> (Because I've used the Technics and thought they were pretty good, but I've been curious but cautious regarding the Liberty 3 Pro because they seem to get very mixed reviews due to mostly the treble and sibilance and weird "metallic-ness" to the vocals I think)


Unfortunately I don't, I was deciding between either earbud but settled on the L3P as it was on sale for a lower price and I read some reviews saying the Technics were on the warm side sometimes sounding wooly. I am considering picking up the Technics if they do go on sale though. (Lately they sometimes drop to 199$ CAD but I recall they were down to 169$ on Boxing Day last year)

I usually don't mind bright/lean sounds (like ATH-MSR7 or Samsung Galaxy Buds+) but I do find the L3P particularly hot in the highs, though not too excessive to be a huge issue for me. I have toned it down but the bass sounds a bit more boomy as a result. The bass rumbles and extends fairly deep but there's a sense of it being detached from the rest of the sound signature. If you want a smoother sound I'd suggest looking elsewhere.

Usually the transparency mode is constant but I had noticed with my fan turned on that sometimes the audio would whirl around and transparency would dip or stop working in one ear, even if I turned off wind reduction.

Also, these L3P doesn't downmix your audio to mono when using a single earbud. This may be a good thing in some cases if you just want to hear one side but it does get annoying if you're listening to music with one ear and you're missing things (Who Needs You by Queen for example)

I've also seen a few complaints of thumping or clicking as I previously described which some say is due to a defective mic that is overly sensitive, but I've also read reports the WF-1000XM4 also has the same problem. I noticed it on the 1More Dual Driver ANC but this may have been more to do with the housing having a slightly loose seam that creaks when squeezed. Another thing is that when I wear them for long periods of time and there is sweat/air pockets this adds to the thumping and clicking when I move my facial muscles.

As for battery life it has lasted me about 3 days. The case seems to retain charge so that it can power the earbuds on and off.

I think I just encountered a new problem - out of the box the earbuds did remember my ANC settings each time I reset the earbuds, but starting from today they always default to ANC off! It seems to have started after I fully drained one of the earbuds this morning and re-charged them.


----------



## darkgod5

This post is mostly for my own posterity but for anyone who is rocking the XM4 and is able to use EQ settings they can give these a shot. These, for my ears, and my tips (which are the SpinFit CP100) gives the most balanced sound without being too "shouty":


----------



## smuh

DHLA said:


> Been using the FiiO UTSW3 and, while the sound was generally okay (a bit much noise floor depending on model), I found the fit just didn't work well for me, and the mics weren't great. Just upped to Shure Aonic TW2 adapters and love the fit and feel - but trying to optimize for the IEMs I normally use here, which are:
> 
> Campfire Audio Andromeda (2019)
> Campfire Audio Mammoth
> ...


You may want to try the Shanling MW200. I am using two sets, one with MMCX another with 2pin... 
Had nobody complain about the microphones and the MW200 supports LDAC.


----------



## DHLA

I really like how the Aonic TW2 feels and I already have it, so would rather just have a better idea of what each model is doing.

Does anyone have a resource on this?


----------



## Uncle00Jesse

I got the Linkbuds S based on a recommendation in this thread the other day. Been using them all day and I really love them so far. Leaps and bounds better than the AirPods Pro, almost as good ANC and far superior sound and comfort/fit. Better sound then I remember the XM3s had but have not heard XM4s. These things are so small and light you barely feel them at all. I can actually do a little side sleeping with these which is unheard of. You can’t crank your head down, but with a softer pillow that’s not too elevated, it’s perfectly suitable. Very happy with these and will be keeping them. Solid buy


----------



## DHLA

DHLA said:


> Been using the FiiO UTSW3 and, while the sound was generally okay (a bit much noise floor depending on model), I found the fit just didn't work well for me, and the mics weren't great. Just upped to Shure Aonic TW2 adapters and love the fit and feel - but trying to optimize for the IEMs I normally use here, which are:
> 
> Campfire Audio Andromeda (2019)
> Campfire Audio Mammoth
> ...


Heard back from Shure support on this: 

_The only difference between model settings in the Play app is the output level of the TW2 amplifiers, which are calibrated according to the sensitivity of Shure earphone models so the sound levels don't exceed 100 dB SPL.  I would not expect this to change anything about the audio quality, tonally or otherwise, but I'll see if any colleagues here who have the TW2 adapters can further evaluate that._

So if we're just looking at the level of the amplifiers, then I assume we'll want to find the model that is closest to the one being used in terms of sensitivity in dB SPL/MW and in impedance. For reference for anyone else using the Shure TW2, I've gathered that information about all the available model selections in the ShurePlus Play app. All figures at 1 KHz:

SE215 - 107 dB SPL/MW; 17 Ω
SE315 - 116 dB SPL/MW; 27 Ω
SE425 - 109 dB SPL/MW; 22 Ω
SE535 - 119 dB SPL/MW; 36 Ω
SE846 - 114 dB SPL/MW; 9 Ω
Aonic 3 - 108 dB SPL/MW; 26 Ω
Aonic 4 - 106 dB SPL/MW; 7 Ω
Aonic 5 - 119 dB SPL/MW; 36 Ω

The Campfire Audio Andromedas I have are 112.8 dB SPL/MW and 12.8 Ω; as such I've found the SE846 and SE425 provide matches that seem to "fit" best there.

The Campfire Audio Mammoths are 94 dB SPL/MW and 8.1 Ω - I'm also using SE846 there. Would anyone recommend different?

The Campfire Audio Honeydews are 94 dB SPL/MW and 17.44 Ω - again, any recommendations?


----------



## FYLegend

Actually it seems to me that the problem with the L3P not remembering ANC settings is mainly due to the wear detection. My ear fins have been loosening up and thus they don't always get detected as being worn. That's one thing I have found frustrating with detachable ear fins/hooks in many TWS is that they loosen up easy and often I find it better to wear one that doesn't have the fins.


----------



## bladefd

Uncle00Jesse said:


> I got the Linkbuds S based on a recommendation in this thread the other day. Been using them all day and I really love them so far. Leaps and bounds better than the AirPods Pro, almost as good ANC and far superior sound and comfort/fit. Better sound then I remember the XM3s had but have not heard XM4s. These things are so small and light you barely feel them at all. I can actually do a little side sleeping with these which is unheard of. You can’t crank your head down, but with a softer pillow that’s not too elevated, it’s perfectly suitable. Very happy with these and will be keeping them. Solid buy


Try this pillow: https://smile.amazon.com/dp/B0778ZJ76B/

It lets me sleep comfortably on the side with tws on. You just have to keep your ears pointed to the holes. It's very comfortable memory foam and high quality even if expensive. It has been great for me last couple years and should last for years more (I don't toss and turn all night to destroy the pillow lol). I would get the standard because I heard the soft is too soft. Used to be anyways when I bought it.


----------



## alleroy

Uncle00Jesse said:


> I got the Linkbuds S based on a recommendation in this thread the other day. Been using them all day and I really love them so far. Leaps and bounds better than the AirPods Pro, almost as good ANC and far superior sound and comfort/fit. Better sound then I remember the XM3s had but have not heard XM4s. These things are so small and light you barely feel them at all. I can actually do a little side sleeping with these which is unheard of. You can’t crank your head down, but with a softer pillow that’s not too elevated, it’s perfectly suitable. Very happy with these and will be keeping them. Solid buy


What about battery duration?


----------



## Bhelpoori (Jun 15, 2022)

FYLegend said:


> Actually it seems to me that the problem with the L3P not remembering ANC settings is mainly due to the wear detection. My ear fins have been loosening up and thus they don't always get detected as being worn. That's one thing I have found frustrating with detachable ear fins/hooks in many TWS is that they loosen up easy and often I find it better to wear one that doesn't have the fins.


Totally agree on the ear fins loosening up on the L3P and so for me losing the fit. I used them for 4+ months daily and they now sit unused because of it and none of my collection of tips fit me+case+worn detection. I’ve moved onto the 1More Evo because of that…which have no ear fins and are a lot smaller.


----------



## Juturna

I tried the B&O EX today for the first time on my lunch break, went into a Hi-Fi shop here where I live. 
I really liked them, they impressed me on my first listen unlike the MTW3's that I felt were unremarkable to me on a similar short listen. 

However I don't think they're $400-remarkable, I went back to my Galaxy Buds Pro's right after and didn't necessarily even think they sounded worse in comparison, on the contrary I think they sounded better in some regards, and I paid $50 for mine, so for me they're a... I would want them, and if money wasn't an issue for me I'd get them, easy. I actually like their EQ wheel-thingie, even though I'd prefer a full 10+ band EQ I think this is way more intuitive and changes the sound more to your preference than just a 3-band EQ like Sennheiser has for an example.


----------



## Juturna

I think for my next TWS, I'm currently looking mostly around the $150-200 segment, and I'm currently weighing my options but right now it's looking like 

Final ZE3000 
1more Evo 
Lypertek Z5 
Soundcore Liberty 3 Pro 

Are the top options I'm currently considering first and foremost... We'll see where I land, they all seem pretty different from one another.


----------



## Devodonaldson

Juturna said:


> I tried the B&O EX today for the first time on my lunch break, went into a Hi-Fi shop here where I live.
> I really liked them, they impressed me on my first listen unlike the MTW3's that I felt were unremarkable to me on a similar short listen.
> 
> However I don't think they're $400-remarkable, I went back to my Galaxy Buds Pro's right after and didn't necessarily even think they sounded worse in comparison, on the contrary I think they sounded better in some regards, and I paid $50 for mine, so for me they're a... I would want them, and if money wasn't an issue for me I'd get them, easy. I actually like their EQ wheel-thingie, even though I'd prefer a full 10+ band EQ I think this is way more intuitive and changes the sound more to your preference than just a 3-band EQ like Sennheiser has for an example.


Glad upu like the buds pro. I've had mine a year and a half. For a couple months they were my only and I felt like I was missing something. I have the xm4 and the Noble Fokus Pro. I try ro go back to buds pro forensic, and they are just lacking, for me. I use them for video, gaming, and podcasts, but switch to the Noble or Sony whenever I'm looking to listen to music. I carry two separate TWS at all times.


----------



## Juturna (Jun 15, 2022)

Devodonaldson said:


> Glad upu like the buds pro. I've had mine a year and a half. For a couple months they were my only and I felt like I was missing something. I have the xm4 and the Noble Fokus Pro. I try ro go back to buds pro forensic, and they are just lacking, for me. I use them for video, gaming, and podcasts, but switch to the Noble or Sony whenever I'm looking to listen to music. I carry two separate TWS at all times.


Yeah, each to their own. I would probably love the Fokus Pro more, but haven't had a chance to try them and don't think I ever will.
But I found the XM4's to be way less enjoyable than the Galaxy Buds Pro, no matter how much tinkering I did with the EQ or the different eartips I tried I couldn't really find any EQ that made them sound good to me. The ANC was better though, I can give them that.

The Galaxy Buds Pros are probably the only TWS earbuds I've tried so far that I don't even feel the need to EQ whatsoever. Sure they rarely blow me away, but music sounds the way I expect it to, no more and no less.
But at the same time I always want more, or different... which is why I'm still looking at other buds. But in reality the Galaxy Buds Pro's are probably the best all-round TWSs i've tried (and I've tried plenty).


----------



## Caipirina

jant71 said:


> Lots of open stuff coming out lately. The BOSE, Linkbuds, Oladance, Nearphones, ARC, Acreo openbuds, etc. Not quite sure they are worth the price tag but I did want a wireless open style. So, I grabbed a pair of Smabat M Pro for $25 to put on my Hiby WU1. Open box, good price and looked pretty much like new so good on that front. Also, after reading up they sounded right for BT as far as the tuning. So far quite good. They have some sub bass and with foams quite fine for bass amount and reach and pretty rich. better than I thought. Mids a bit sensitive to EQ with buds so they move up and back more than an in ear but you do get a more open sound with buds. Good part is they don't need little bass added really so less chance to push the mids back. Still a bit bright up top even after an BT high cut. Crisp detailed and airy but maybe some presets can be a little harsh but again we are on the other end from the consumer smooth TWS sound and there is no need to liven up the highs here. I doubt any of the open offerings would sound as good nor can they convert to wired if needed. Also $100 total is cheaper than most of the other options as well.
> 
> They also remind me of an old minidisc player I used to have...


This is kinda how I slipped into the TWS things, putting my Rose Masya on the first ... was it BT20 dongles? don't recall ... possibly posted images a few thousand pages ago


----------



## samandhi

On another note, I purchased the Amp13 (Nutube) amp card for my DX300. It arrived today as estimated. The really cool part is that when I opened up the (delivery) box, not only was the Amp13 package there but there was also a free gift from @Audio46 (thank you so much, that was very thoughtful):


----------



## Not so fat head

Uncle00Jesse said:


> I got the Linkbuds S based on a recommendation in this thread the other day. Been using them all day and I really love them so far. Leaps and bounds better than the AirPods Pro, almost as good ANC and far superior sound and comfort/fit. Better sound then I remember the XM3s had but have not heard XM4s. These things are so small and light you barely feel them at all. I can actually do a little side sleeping with these which is unheard of. You can’t crank your head down, but with a softer pillow that’s not too elevated, it’s perfectly suitable. Very happy with these and will be keeping them. Solid buy


“Leaps and bounds better than the AirPods Pro, almost as good ANC and far superior sound and comfort/fit.”

Not a chance, none of the TWS headphones are leaps and bound better than each other..  Probably just has a signature that YOUR brain, head, ear canal find more pleasant….
These sweeping statements are confusing the new comers..  They wonder why heaven itself  doesn’t call down, while listening to the (vastly superior) Sony’s…


----------



## Phaethon

I’ve been working my way through all kinds of gear the last two weeks. Here are the high and the low lights:
Galaxy Buds Pro - a waste of time for the iPhone user. I like updating my firmware whenever possible and doing gymnastics to arrange to borrow an android phone is the worst possible use of my time 

MTW3 - sooo improved but the sound signature doesn’t thrill me. 

1more Evo - great sound until you compare it to the competition in its price bracket. At $125 it would rule them all. It also seemed kind of hit or miss on connectivity. 

Oladance Open Ear - odd and underwhelming. Never fit right so I’m not sure I got the sound that they wanted for me

Philips Fidelio T1 - returned twice. I had the thrill  of hearing them properly for five minutes on the first pair. I loved the signature. But I took them off my ears to upsize the tips and when I put them back in my ear holes the right side did its touch click sound about 5 times. Then I put in the left side, pressed play on my music and I only got the left side. Tried again and again. Tried re pairing. Sent them back as damaged and ordered another pair. Same exact issue. Now there are many reviews of these out there and nobody mentions anything like this. What am I doing wrong?

The Keepers? The Linkbuds twins. The first one is a perfect, ambient, out in public, personal Muzak device. The S version seems to be a little wonder. I’ve only had the twins for about 4 hours and I haven’t even updated them yet, much less played with all the features.


----------



## Luchyres

Phaethon said:


> I’ve been working my way through all kinds of gear the last two weeks. Here are the high and the low lights:
> Galaxy Buds Pro - a waste of time for the iPhone user. I like updating my firmware whenever possible and doing gymnastics to arrange to borrow an android phone is the worst possible use of my time
> 
> MTW3 - sooo improved but the sound signature doesn’t thrill me.
> ...


I just bought the Linkbuds S after hearing so many good comments - can you comment as to how the transparency is with wind noise? I'm hoping to use them a bit on a bike, but realize the regular Linkbuds may be a better buy for ambient immersion (though I crave bass, so I'm not sure if I'd enjoy their musical capabilities so much as their call capabilities)

Thank you!


----------



## Uncle00Jesse

Not so fat head said:


> “Leaps and bounds better than the AirPods Pro, almost as good ANC and far superior sound and comfort/fit.”
> 
> Not a chance, none of the TWS headphones are leaps and bound better than each other..  Probably just has a signature that YOUR brain, head, ear canal find more pleasant….
> These sweeping statements are confusing the new comers..  They wonder why heaven itself  doesn’t call down, while listening to the (vastly superior) Sony’s…


Looks like the headfi review language police are out in full force today. You must not have been around very long, this is how we talk about products. I’m well aware of the margins between sets. A well amped HE-6se v2 is 90% of a Susvara. The whole hobby is in the 10%.

And no crap sherlock, these are my opinions about them on my head, ear canal and brain. We don’t need to preface that before writing impressions every single time.


----------



## Phaethon

Luchyres said:


> I just bought the Linkbuds S after hearing so many good comments - can you comment as to how the transparency is with wind noise? I'm hoping to use them a bit on a bike, but realize the regular Linkbuds may be a better buy for ambient immersion (though I crave bass, so I'm not sure if I'd enjoy their musical capabilities so much as their call capabilities)
> 
> Thank you!


I put them in my dog’s ears and let him stick his head out the car window on the freeway. They did not stick in his ears as long as I would have liked and his report was pretty unreliable, so I’m going to have to report back to you this weekend (after Amazon delivers the new pair tomorrow), after some bicycling. 
All joking aside I haven’t tested that yet, but I’ll let you know after I’ve had the opportunity this weekend!


----------



## Not so fat head

Uncle00Jesse said:


> Looks like the headfi review language police are out in full force today. You must not have been around very long, this is how we talk about products. I’m well aware of the margins between sets. A well amped HE-6se v2 is 90% of a Susvara. The whole hobby is in the 10%.
> 
> And no crap sherlock, these are my opinions about them on my head, ear canal and brain. We don’t need to preface that before writing impressions every single time.


Didn’t mean any offense…
I’ve been buying headphones (too many) since the original Sony MDR-V6 and first portable CD players, anyone remember those?
The MDR-V6 would complete well even today….  
Keep posting, we all are learning!!!!


----------



## jant71 (Jun 16, 2022)

We have the Nearphones listed pretty quick on the JVC US site. $79.99 is cheaper than japan and we finally get a view of the back of them thanks to the 360 viewer. Very interesting dual output it seems which seems better to me than all these one opening models...



These, like some others, promise a rich sound but these my actually deliver on a more satisfying bass output. JVC promises powerful sound and low leakage. Might still put my money on the Cleer Arc but those are $130 vs. $80.


----------



## jant71

Anyone else want one of these?



With some good chips, amps, and quality drivers like the ones in the EPH100 or FXH30 or Rockets. Some quality micro dynamic drivers and some quality tuning. Put it in a nice ergo shell maybe even some pretty colors. Maybe a $150 non ANC version and a $200 ANC version which might be a bit bigger. Tons of $25 to $50 ones some of which are quite cool. Might be nice to take this design and make a top performer out of it.


----------



## raymanh

Not so fat head said:


> Didn’t mean any offense…
> I’ve been buying headphones (too many) since the original Sony MDR-V6 and first portable CD players, anyone remember those?
> The MDR-V6 would complete well even today….
> Keep posting, we all are learning!!!!



You got wrecked, walk away.


----------



## helmutcheese

jant71 said:


> Anyone else want one of these?
> 
> With some good chips, amps, and quality drivers like the ones in the EPH100 or FXH30 or Rockets. Some quality micro dynamic drivers and some quality tuning. Put it in a nice ergo shell maybe even some pretty colors. Maybe a $150 non ANC version and a $200 ANC version which might be a bit bigger. Tons of $25 to $50 ones some of which are quite cool. Might be nice to take this design and make a top performer out of it.


If those dual drivers are the same size, it is IMO pointless, Soundpeats have tried that a few times.


----------



## jant71

helmutcheese said:


> If those dual drivers are the same size, it is IMO pointless, Soundpeats have tried that a few times.


Pointless? I'm sure all your speakers only have one driver? Just because they aren't good ones doesn't all of a sudden mean the woofer/tweeter set up is pointless. Should still be the most used configuration in audio most likely. I said do it right. I did not say I wanted another cheap poorly done one like Soundpeats and others. I thought we as consumer should demand more and better.  Sony ANC can't be real good cause Soundpeats tried it and it wasn't very good. Same logic if Sony made a dual driver. Pointless? They couldn't do better. Besides who said that they had to be the same size or same construction have the same diaphragm coatings or materials? Sony could do a nice ceramic tweeter if they wanted to go along with an improved version of the new 5mm in the Linkbud S. They already do small dynamic tweeters actually:



Why not? Small is good. Keeping all dynamic is a good idea for cohesion. Some could say pointless but I say potential. 


 Also, looks like Yamaha might have a sports model coming...


----------



## helmutcheese

No, they have at least 2 drivers sometimes 3 but they are different sizes and for good reason and if you do not get why then I am not going to explain it to you or your buddy

The other way is a single dynamic full range driver but adding 2 the same does nothing to change the sound signature.


----------



## Mouseman

helmutcheese said:


> If those dual drivers are the same size, it is IMO pointless, Soundpeats have tried that a few times.


Yeah, KNZ has put out several wired versions of this. I have two (one was a KS gaming specific unit that they shipped and ran away from with no support), and they were both total rubbish with a thin and shrill sound signature.  While I haven't heard the TWS version, I wouldn't recommend them.


----------



## dweaver

Just stole my son's Soundcore Life Note 3 for an hour or two. Bought them for him at Xmas on sale for around $80.

They actually sounded better than any of the Jabra's I have tried (Elite 3 and 7) and had better ANC than the 7. Not all the bells and whistles but a very nice comfy TWS. I like them more than the Sony WF-C500 too. Soundcore puts out some really decent stuff. Makes me tempted to try the Liberty 3 Pro.


----------



## samandhi

dweaver said:


> Just stole my son's Soundcore Life Note 3 for an hour or two. Bought them for him at Xmas on sale for around $80.
> 
> They actually sounded better than any of the Jabra's I have tried (Elite 3 and 7) and had better ANC than the 7. Not all the bells and whistles but a very nice comfy TWS. I like them more than the Sony WF-C500 too. Soundcore puts out some really decent stuff. Makes me tempted to try the Liberty 3 Pro.


I don't have any of their TWS (a friend does and loves them), but I have a pair of their BT speakers, and they sound really nice (for what they are). They are really the only BT speakers that have caught my attention that could possibly replace my Jawbone Big Jambox from days gone by (which is STILL fantastic for a small BT speaker): cost also factored in. If that is any indication, then I am sure they make some pretty good TWS also?!


----------



## Not so fat head

raymanh said:


> You got wrecked, walk away.


I have two closet’s full of headphones and been collecting for 30+ years…
Have the xm3’s, Senn M2’s, M&D 08, B&W PI7, Bose QC’s, Bose sound free Sport, Bose soundsports, LG Tones, JBL Tws, Soundcore TWS, xm4’s and about two dozen others.
Stax, TOTL Denons, TOTL Audio Technicas, TOTL Sony’s…etc…
I know my way around this hobby…..
I’ll say it again, well built, designed, and fabricated on a controlled production line are, for the most part, all good..
Stick with a reputable company and you won’t be disappointed..
Something destroying something else is just nonsense…. Take it from an Engineer…..


----------



## erockg

Not so fat head said:


> I have two closet’s full of headphones and been collecting for 30+ years…
> Have the xm3’s, Senn M2’s, M&D 08, B&W PI7, Bose QC’s, Bose sound free Sport, Bose soundsports, LG Tones, JBL Tws, Soundcore TWS, xm4’s and about two dozen others.
> Stax, TOTL Denons, TOTL Audio Technicas, TOTL Sony’s…etc…
> I know my way around this hobby…..
> ...


Different strokes for different folks.  I studied music engineering as well and have owned most if not all of what you’re listing.  Some have stayed, others gone.  I’ll never be truly happy.  Chasing a dream.


----------



## Not so fat head

Heres an example,  On the way home tonight I stopped in at TJ Max, they just received a new shipment of TWS phones.
Some i’ve never hear of, Chinese brands like POM, Airstream, Airbuds and others, then there’s JBL and Philips..  Well I know Philips, along with Sony, invented the CD player.  They at one point made the most coveted ADC’s and DAC’s in the business, even more so than Burr Brown for music…
So I picked up thePhilips, out the door for $21.65.. (heavily discounted)
Now these things sound way better than they should at this price point.
Looks like they’re the 3000 series…
I’d have to say my other much more expensive unit’s do sound better, but the difference is not huge, vast nor earth shattering.  
We live in good times if you’re a music lover…


----------



## Juturna (Jun 17, 2022)

1MORE Evo or Soundcore Liberty 3 Pro?

Just weighing my options here. It's difficult to choose because the L3P seems to not be my ideal tuning, but I know from my Soundcore Q30s that at least they respond to EQ really well and sound pretty frickin' awesome for the price. I'm worried that they'll be a bit like the Devialet Geminis though, where the bass is certainly impressive for electronic music, but anything that's sort of more vocal-centric or more based around guitars etc all sound tinny and not resolving at all, the mids feel heavily scooped out, and adjusting it with EQ makes it sound very unnatural. 
Not really a fan of that design either. 

The 1more Evos seem more like my type of sound signature, but I also feel like I've seen varied reviews on how good they are otherwise.

Bonus: Lypertek Z5 and Final ZE3000 in the running as well. 

Mostly looking for great audio and nothing else is really prioritized (well, connection stability maybe) but I would love if phone calls were decent too.


----------



## Bhelpoori

I have both the 1More Evo and the L3P. Let me give you my thoughts:

Case. 1More Evo has a really good case. The L3P is one of the more difficult ones to get the headphones back into. 

Comfort. 1More Evo are smaller,  lighter and more comfortable. They don’t need the ear fins that fail after a few months on the L3Pro but until that happened they were average comfort wise. 

Calls: They are both quite good though I’ve had much more luck with the 1More Evo in more difficult conditions. 

ANC: Both are average and both very dependent on the fit you get. Not a reason to buy either. Quirk with the Evo is that it always goes to non ANC mode after case opening and that adaptive works better that manual. 

App: Soundcore wins big time. Lots of options, frequently updated. Manual EQ adjustment. Can almost change anything. 

Sound: The L3P has the best bass but treble that I could barely control and always sounded a little metallic. You will need to play with the EQ on the L3Pro for sure. 1More Evo has much better stock tuning but only has SoundID to change it, which is very hit or miss. I have managed to make it how I want it after several attempts but do go back to the original sometimes. 

If I was to buy purely on sound then I’d probably go for the L3Pro but they may be uncomfortable, you need to be insensitive to sibilance, play with the app and realise the ear fins won’t last. OTOH I’m quite happy with the 1More Evo as daily drivers in spite of its numerous quirks and simple app. 

Neither are the best but for the $125 I bought them both for, they are good value… for the full retail, I’m not so sure.


----------



## C_Lindbergh (Jun 18, 2022)

Im quite interested in the Linkbuds S, mostly because of their small size coupled with great ANC and decent SQ! But man , the lack of Wireless charghing is just such a disappointment. I've gotten too used to just put down my TWS-cases on a wireless charger at my desk.

Might pick them up from Amazon long with Samsungs new offering in August tho!

And Sony has even advertised that the Linkbuds S will be ready for LE audio, which will hopefully mean even better battery life, low latency and possibly multi-point in a feature update.

But yeah, I can't understand why Sony ditched wireless charging, might be a deal-breaker for me...Wireless charging is very useful for a small battery device like TWS, much more so than a phone.


----------



## raymanh

Not so fat head said:


> I have two closet’s full of headphones and been collecting for 30+ years…
> Have the xm3’s, Senn M2’s, M&D 08, B&W PI7, Bose QC’s, Bose sound free Sport, Bose soundsports, LG Tones, JBL Tws, Soundcore TWS, xm4’s and about two dozen others.
> Stax, TOTL Denons, TOTL Audio Technicas, TOTL Sony’s…etc…
> I know my way around this hobby…..
> ...



Sorry, meant it as a joke that's all!


----------



## J_3000

You can use 50€ of vouchers for Soundpeats H1 on Amazon.de.


----------



## JoshG1217

So I got the blessing 2 yesterday and it's the first set I've get runs really well on utws5. Xenns up sound decent, but they really need an amp to shine. I tried fiio fd7, fh9, gh5s, and fa7s thinking fiio would pair well but I thought they were all underwhelming. The fh9 were the best of the bunch, but overall none were very good.

Curious though if I should get the Dusk instead as I read they have better bass impact, though wirh EQ the blessing 2 has decent bass.


----------



## Not so fat head

raymanh said:


> Sorry, meant it as a joke that's all!


Hi raymanh…
No problem, all good 😊 
Keep posting…
We have a great hobby and the community is super helpful…


----------



## smuh

C_Lindbergh said:


> Im quite interested in the Linkbuds S, mostly because of their small size coupled with great ANC and decent SQ! But man , the lack of Wireless charghing is just such a disappointment. I've gotten too used to just put down my TWS-cases on a wireless charger at my desk.
> 
> Might pick them up from Amazon long with Samsungs new offering in August tho!
> 
> ...


Wireless charging had to be removed so there is one more reason to buy their new TOTL TWS 😉
For me the very small case size is a nice improvement which would be larger and slightly heavier with Wireless charging. And while the case is tiny  it would still allow you to use Spinfit CP100 or other tips... 
I am still considering buying them again - I decided against them and kept the Technics az60. Now waiting for some Samsung Buds Pro and the Nura Nuraloop to arrive.


----------



## assassin10000

C_Lindbergh said:


> Im quite interested in the Linkbuds S, mostly because of their small size coupled with great ANC and decent SQ! But man , the lack of Wireless charghing is just such a disappointment. I've gotten too used to just put down my TWS-cases on a wireless charger at my desk.
> 
> Might pick them up from Amazon long with Samsungs new offering in August tho!
> 
> ...



Ditto. Same reason I haven't grabbed either the linkbuds or linkbuds S. 

That and I already have the xm4's.


----------



## J_3000

Beoplay EX discounted to 350€ on Amazon.de (out of stock atm) made me pull the trigger. Still not sure are they worth the extra 100€ over the MTW3, but I want to test. Im still in my return window for the MTW3.

I don't use, or very rarely use anc, which I guess is non existent in the EX. Actually I once tried the anc on the MTW3, which I thought didn't do much of anything. I probably had a bad seal...

Anyone here with MTW3 and the EX? The design looks nice, even though its a stem design.


----------



## jmwant

Anybody here who tried both the Galaxy buds and Final Ze3000? Confused as hell between these two


----------



## jmwant

jant71 said:


> Uh-Oh! We got trouble...for erockg's wallet. New Final flagship ZE8000...
> 
> 
> 
> Buuuuut, it won't be around till later this year so still time to put a little cash on the side here and there.


Whoa! Is it a TWS version of the A8000?


----------



## Fleeple

jmwant said:


> Whoa! Is it a TWS version of the A8000?


Kinda want to try those.......when they're sold in the US 😅 just learned my lesson with returns overseas.....


----------



## jmwant

Fleeple said:


> Kinda want to try those.......when they're sold in the US 😅 just learned my lesson with returns overseas.....


I wish Final releases a TWS version of the E4000, with ANC this time. I'm sure that will come too, just after I get the ZE3000, Buds Pro or The Tanchjim Echo


----------



## DigDub

1more Evo. Excellent sound quality as reviewed everywhere. The armature and dynamic driver has great synergy. The case is small and has wireless charging. Hope a new firmware can enable single tap to add more functions. When using one earbud only, the stereo mix doesn't get combined into a single channel.


----------



## jant71

jmwant said:


> Whoa! Is it a TWS version of the A8000?


Supposed to improve on the ZE3000. If you have those expectations you will no doubt be at least a bit disappointed. The ZE3000 was trying to be as good as the E3000 but wireless.


----------



## jant71 (Jun 19, 2022)

Back in the day, there were a few intrepid explorers testing the waters to check out this stuff from China. It was new and exciting and had promise for new designs and some good value propositions that may challenge the big brands.



There were like 3 earphones from China and back in those days we had to walk 8 miles in the snow uphill both ways to get em. None of your Aliexpress, Linsoul, and what have you.  Where was I? Oh yeah, intrepid explorers willing to take a chance. Like this guy....
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/soundmagic-pl30-adjustable-bass-earphones.323413/

Like Columbus traveling to a new world. Of earphones. For the sake of nostalgia and a decent sounding couple of reviews, we now sort of travel back in time with the Soundmagic and the TWS30(gen 2):



A bit old school looking almost like they are morphed from a PL30.



Quite flush and skinny compared to many TWS. Seem really nice for fit.



Metal nozzles and solid plastics for a well built feel. To continue the old school look the case has a transparent lid that snaps open and close w/o any magnets.

Among the reviews one here on our site stated this which helped make me think they were worth a spin...
https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/soundmagic-tws30.25404/reviews

"Surprisingly good, it punches well above its price point with a fun, warm and easy going sound signature suitable for all kinds of music yet with enough extension and detail retrieval in order not to miss the vital information.
SoundMAGIC has opted for a mid - centric tuning with an added bass and treble extension since this kind of sound is usually better suited for noisy environments and casual listening sessions on the go.
Believe it or not this is one of the best sounding TWS earphones we have ever tested with a musical tuning and a timbre that is not too artificial.
We certainly liked them more than the Sennheiser CX400 BT, the Tronsmart Apollo Bold, the Audiofly AFT2 and other more expensive competitors."

Like I said feeling a bit nostalgic. They were $52 which was taken care of with an Amazon gift card so why not see if they are another upstart overachiever like the little PL30 back in the day. Charging at the moment so to be continued...


----------



## PixelSquish

I have the technics AZ 60 and absolutely love them except, the call quality. I get complaints from people, and not just when it's windy, it just randomly can drop off quality wise. The The latest sonies don't have that problem with calls.

What can I get with the sound quality and ANC of the techniques but good call quality without busting the bank?


----------



## ThickT

LG FP9 is an excellent TWS set. I have had them for a few months now. 

They sound really good, the function really good, they fit really good, they are built really good, they look really good.... And the number of unique features they bring to the table is awesome. 

Don't sleep on these!

Last night, I very easily connected these wirelessly, to some of my high end desktop audio equipment and was able to walk all around my apartment enjoying amplified hifi audio streaming from my favorite hifi audio devices! HUGE WIN!!


----------



## Canabuc

PixelSquish said:


> I have the technics AZ 60 and absolutely love them except, the call quality. I get complaints from people, and not just when it's windy, it just randomly can drop off quality wise. The The latest sonies don't have that problem with calls.
> 
> What can I get with the sound quality and ANC of the techniques but good call quality without busting the bank?


Surprising my call quality has been great. Also new firmware update this week to improve just my voice. Maybe that will help.


----------



## Ceeluh7

JoshG1217 said:


> So I got the blessing 2 yesterday and it's the first set I've get runs really well on utws5. Xenns up sound decent, but they really need an amp to shine. I tried fiio fd7, fh9, gh5s, and fa7s thinking fiio would pair well but I thought they were all underwhelming. The fh9 were the best of the bunch, but overall none were very good.
> 
> Curious though if I should get the Dusk instead as I read they have better bass impact, though wirh EQ the blessing 2 has decent bass.


All of those fiio sets need some better power to shine. Find something a little more sensitive. The Fiio adapters have the best output power of adapters but still they aren't powerhouses... At all. I use ifi go blu with the Fiio FH9 or the Qudelix 5k when I'm out and about or doing chores etc. Something with some real power. There is a number of great sets around the Blessing 2 price


----------



## Ceeluh7

jant71 said:


> Back in the day, there were a few intrepid explorers testing the waters to check out this stuff from China. It was new and exciting and had promise for new designs and some good value propositions that may challenge the big brands.
> 
> There were like 3 earphones from China and back in those days we had to walk 8 miles in the snow uphill both ways to get em. None of your Aliexpress, Linsoul, and what have you.  Where was I? Oh yeah, intrepid explorers willing to take a chance. Like this guy....
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/soundmagic-pl30-adjustable-bass-earphones.323413/
> ...


Very cool man. Soundmagic always made some decent in-wars. I was wondering about their tws units. Nice post


----------



## jant71

I'll say this about the Soundmagic TWS30 G2, if you want one to sleep on, they may work very well. Both quite flush and pillow friendly and while still having a 9mm driver. High isolation capable especially if they fill your ears snugly enough. Makes for a super stable fit for me. No ANC not a problem for me as they give enough passive for my needs. 

Early on the burn in and tip trying but certainly one to me already that reinforces why I still try cheaper stuff. There are still gems here and there. I can hear why, in the Head-fi review and others, they are among the best they have heard for sound. Very wired sounding. After having the first Victor FX100T that was on par with the MTW2 I can totally buy that these are liked "certainly more than the CX400BT". If you get the right tips. Stock are okay but you can do better. Also if you can EQ you are golden. I like to get a good seal and reduce bass a bit. At least for now unless burn in cleans it up more. Bass reduced a bit makes it more articulate.  Not too different to me. The usual dialing in really like most TWS and wired earphones might need. They very well could be the best sounding $50 pair. Wouldn't surprise me.

Also notice not making contact thing which was easy to figure out. They are comma shaped and when I put them in the case I just make sure the magnets take them while I am pushing up with my thumb slightly. They just need to be up to make consistent contact. If you just drop them and let the magnets pull them in they indeed may not rest on the contacts right.

These have that old school SoundMagic look and feel. They also have the old Soundmagic sound quality for value thing as well. Simple but unique.


----------



## FYLegend

DigDub said:


> 1more Evo. Excellent sound quality as reviewed everywhere. The armature and dynamic driver has great synergy. The case is small and has wireless charging. Hope a new firmware can enable single tap to add more functions. When using one earbud only, the stereo mix doesn't get combined into a single channel.


Do they remember your ANC settings? According to early user impressions they don't and at this day and age I feel like that is a dealbreaker as I hate having to turn on ANC every time I put on my earbuds. I had the 1More Dual Driver ANC and it only defaults to ANC OFF, but I also recall reading the Comfobuds Pro defaults to ANC on but doesn't remember your ANC settings.

The stereo not downmixing to mono in single-bud mode is pretty annoying, it seems the EVO uses a Bestechnic chip (BES2300YA) similar to that of the Liberty 3 Pro (which uses BES2500YP). Not sure what's the difference between the two chipsets as I couldn't find much info on the BES2300YA compared to the BES2500YP.

At least something like Beatles mono tracks shouldn't be affected and I do wonder if mono is actually cleaner in this implementation because downmixing the stereo feed could potentially introduce distortion from two added channels even if the track is mono to begin with.


----------



## DigDub (Jun 19, 2022)

FYLegend said:


> Do they remember your ANC settings? According to early user impressions they don't and at this day and age I feel like that is a dealbreaker as I hate having to turn on ANC every time I put on my earbuds. I had the 1More Dual Driver ANC and it only defaults to ANC OFF, but I also recall reading the Comfobuds Pro defaults to ANC on but doesn't remember your ANC settings.
> 
> The stereo not downmixing to mono in single-bud mode is pretty annoying, it seems the EVO uses a Bestechnic chip (BES2300YA) similar to that of the Liberty 3 Pro (which uses BES2500YP). Not sure what's the difference between the two chipsets as I couldn't find much info on the BES2300YA compared to the BES2500YP.
> 
> At least something like Beatles mono tracks shouldn't be affected and I do wonder if mono is actually cleaner in this implementation because downmixing the stereo feed could potentially introduce distortion from two added channels even if the track is mono to begin with.


The ANC defaults to off every time the buds are taken out. I'm ok with this because I rarely use ANC and ANC control is available on the buds if I need to turn it on. Another minor annoyance is the music will stop playing whenever one of the buds is placed back into the case.


----------



## C_Lindbergh

I just bought a pair of slightly used LinkBuds S for 140€...Should arrive tomorrow, I've high expectations for the comfort


----------



## dweaver (Jun 20, 2022)

@C_Lindbergh 

Let us know what you think of them! Tempted to buy them too. Like the idea of comfort and am tempted to use all of gadgetry regarding auto ambient mode, etc.

Also curious about your take on their sound. Most reviewers state the XM4 sound "better" but not if better is truly better or just a signature preference.


----------



## SemiAudiophile

JoshG1217 said:


> So I got the blessing 2 yesterday and it's the first set I've get runs really well on utws5. Xenns up sound decent, but they really need an amp to shine. I tried fiio fd7, fh9, gh5s, and fa7s thinking fiio would pair well but I thought they were all underwhelming. The fh9 were the best of the bunch, but overall none were very good.
> 
> Curious though if I should get the Dusk instead as I read they have better bass impact, though wirh EQ the blessing 2 has decent bass.


B2 Dusk does pair well with the UTWS3 as well. I tried the OG B2, but personally preferred the Dusk by a fair margin. 

Instead of the Dusk, I'd recommend going for Variations instead. Same sound signature but better sub bass slam. Cleaner sound and resolution and it's on sale right now for $468 I think. My favorite IEM for electronic music. 

FD7 requires a a dedicated dac/amp to drive properly and showcase it's abilities. It's very revealing and musical IEM.


----------



## C_Lindbergh

I asked Azla when they plan to launch their Max series of eartips outside of Asia  apparently next week. 

https://store.azla.co.kr/products/sednaearfit-max-for-tws-1


----------



## deuter

The wife just lost one of her Sony XM3 iems this morning.
She uses it for listening to music and conference calls for work.
Therefore mic quality is important, Noise cancelling might be a good to have.

Should I just get her another pair of XM3 or are there better options in the same price range: $200 USD.


----------



## Luchyres

deuter said:


> The wife just lost one of her Sony XM3 iems this morning.
> She uses it for listening to music and conference calls for work.
> Therefore mic quality is important, Noise cancelling might be a good to have.
> 
> Should I just get her another pair of XM3 or are there better options in the same price range: $200 USD.


Linkbuds S I strongly suggest.


----------



## JoshG1217

SemiAudiophile said:


> B2 Dusk does pair well with the UTWS3 as well. I tried the OG B2, but personally preferred the Dusk by a fair margin.
> 
> Instead of the Dusk, I'd recommend going for Variations instead. Same sound signature but better sub bass slam. Cleaner sound and resolution and it's on sale right now for $468 I think. My favorite IEM for electronic music.
> 
> FD7 requires a a dedicated dac/amp to drive properly and showcase it's abilities. It's very revealing and musical IEM.


I actually saw the Variations sale and ordered one on Saturday. I hope it pairs well, but I also ordered an mmcx fiio utws5 and adapters, as I'm curious how my Sony ex800st will work as a TWS. Bass slam is what I miss and those have some slam indeed!


----------



## Evshrug (Jun 21, 2022)

C_Lindbergh said:


> Welcome back @erockg
> 
> Have you checked out the new Grell Audio TW1?
> https://grellaudio.com/en
> ...





erockg said:


> I have seen them out there.  I'm sure I'll try them out once they're available here in the US


Just found this thread (by accident) while Google searching, let me know if I can answer any questions you have about the grells!

I’ve been trying to embrace morning walks since spring this year, and I usually take the grell TWS/1 with me. It’s awesome how all the little birds greet the sunrise and are so… social, but sometimes it’s a racket 😂. I almost always use them with ANC/NAR mode turned on, they sound best that way.

I typed a whole lot more, but I don’t want to grind this thread to a halt 😁 I trust you guys to ask questions if you want to know more; I think it suffices to spark your curiosity if I say I previously thought ANC was a trade-off that made sound quality WORSE with bloated bass and holes in the frequency response… but Axel Grell taught me that ANC can actually IMPROVE sound quality!


----------



## subguy812

Evshrug said:


> Just found this thread (by accident) while Google searching, let me know if I can answer any questions you have about the grells!


Hey EV 

Good to see you here


----------



## Evshrug

Hey @subguy812, how are you doing! What do you think; Are we “there” yet with wireless headphones in the $100-$300 price range?

I thought wireless had reached a good place in 2015, but even in just the past year I’ve been impressed with how much more organic and less glaring/stressed wireless is able to sound now!


----------



## subguy812

Evshrug said:


> Hey @subguy812, how are you doing! What do you think; Are we “there” yet with wireless headphones in the $100-$300 price range?
> 
> I thought wireless had reached a good place in 2015, but even in just the past year I’ve been impressed with how much more organic and less glaring/stressed wireless is able to sound now!


Well...I will say, ever since my first review on the Senns TW1, and then moving on to the TW2 I feel the sq has gotten pretty damn good. You know I do a lot of wired, but enjoy my wireless for walking etc. Unfortunately, the TW3 didn't work for me and this time I had to surpass the $299 threshold, with the B&O EX. I am definitely impressed with the progress of the TW offerings. How is the SQ of the Grell? Honestly, I would forego many features, ANC included, for stellar SQ and call quality alone.


----------



## C_Lindbergh (Jun 21, 2022)

First impressions of the Linkbuds S are pretty damn good!

-Tiny Case
-Best comfort of any TWS that I've tried
-Can lay on my pillow without altering the position of the earbud too much
-Sound is fairly balanced for a Sony bt-product
-Speak-to-chat seems interesting


For the downsides...yeah I mean its a tiny earbud with limited space for acoustics/amp! But that's a trade off for the tiny size, obviously if you want the very best sound quality these aren't for you.
Another huge downside that Sony actually can fix is the idiotic touch control "customization"...You're given the option of 4 pre-determined gesture functions, instead of letting you alter every gesture.  

Can't say much about ANC/talk quality etc yet.  Will prob expieriment with other eartips and the EQ if other users have some tips.

It will also be interesting when Sony updates the Linkbuds S to support LE audio! Will prob mean better battery life and possibly better SQ (LC3 vs AAC).


----------



## jant71 (Jun 21, 2022)

So, not settled on tips just yet for the Soundmagic TWS30  G2. The G2 thing is annoying but newer chip and aptX added so you probably don't want the first gen. Like quite a few tips actually. Not that picky and most tips will work in the case. I would say basically what they sound like, I would say similar to the AT CKS50TW. A better version with more clarity and some treble added and more mid centric. Big sounding and a bit in your face. Depends on device how much treble is there. I'll add some more for my taste with some but not others. Solid amount of detail and clarity but filled in and richer like the AT solid bass model is. Very pleasing and a good balance of most traits esp. richness and clarity and the bass/mid/treble balance with more mid range emphasis. Pretty wired sounding with good extension, how they "feel" and move air, and don't sound weak or like they have any "BT cut". They also act a little more wired due to the shape. Insertion depth comes back into play especially with tip length differences and they can be angled more in the canal with the shallow fit they have.


Kinda had the Yamaha is cleaner and more open result when I compared with the AT. Comparing the Yamaha with the SoundMagic goes back to a bigger muscular sound reminding me of the AT but the clarity and detail edges the Yamaha. Mids are among the best for me among TWS. The bass might need some more cooking but very nice for drums and guitars. Among the more engaging and pretty immersive with the rock band staging and putting you close to the stage but keeping a larger sound. Fit is key. I think they do better with more seal than the AT and other strong bass models do but here you add the housing angle more which may occlude a bit giving some smudge to the bass. The richness and warmth with a good seal is close to thickening and that makes them sensitive to the occlusion and the bass goes blurry. So the thinness of the "G2"  and the comma shape can give higher isolation and a flush fit but they can be a little off if the top or bottom may stick out some changing the nozzle angle.

The SoundMagic SQ is worth the $50 price all day long. The fit and potential isolation is really good. Might have to just pop a side out to talk to people since they don't have ambient which is a drawback. They do really remind me of a SoundMagic model. Sounds like they took one of their own 9mm drivers and built it into a TWS than taking one of those off the shelf 5.8 or 6mm drivers and tuning it. Unique, a little quirky, yet a bit special.


----------



## jant71 (Jun 21, 2022)

Seen these yet? https://www.amazon.com/dp/B09WMJCQR...EONTHEMAKING_&aa_creativeid=US-ZMB2t5JgG&th=1





Almost looks pretty good. Not liking the 2X bass thing. Like some other sports buds I would rather a bass boost mode on board than having no choice in the matter.


----------



## Fleeple

To prospective/new linkbuds s buyers; if you want to use these for calls, I have had no fewer than 10 instances where my call has suddenly dropped my earbuds (and they've still had a charge on them that I've been able to tell). I did a brand new software update with them yesterday and that didn't fix it, so I'm thinking it might be the connection issues that seem to occur when my phone (pixel 6 pro) is in my pocket......to bear in mind. Other than that these are awesome, so you may have better luck if you don't use these for calls on the go (or it may just be my unit).


----------



## Fleeple

jant71 said:


> Seen these yet? https://www.amazon.com/dp/B09WMJCQR...EONTHEMAKING_&aa_creativeid=US-ZMB2t5JgG&th=1


I wonder what the button is for.....


----------



## jant71 (Jun 21, 2022)

Fleeple said:


> I wonder what the button is for.....


Your nemesis...the button.


----------



## Fleeple

jant71 said:


> You nemesis...the button.


How did you remember 😂😭


----------



## jant71

...and with all the functions they leave out the rewind. No rewind, no aptX, and no option for the bass control. Like the aptX and rewind I am not on board.  Might be some peoples cup of tea though.


----------



## Fleeple

jant71 said:


> ...and with all the functions they leave out the rewind. No rewind, no aptX, and no option for the bass control. Like the aptX and rewind I am not on board.  Might be some peoples cup of tea though.


Maybe a budget sports option? That kinda seems to be their MO


----------



## jant71

Anybody using the EPro Horn TWS?? https://www.amazon.com/Patented-Hor...d0f-9a23-72401547942a&pd_rd_i=B0957XYR7N&th=1
Search gives a couple impressions of the regular longer type but not the true wireless style.


----------



## erockg

jant71 said:


> Anybody using the EPro Horn TWS?? https://www.amazon.com/Patented-Hor...d0f-9a23-72401547942a&pd_rd_i=B0957XYR7N&th=1
> Search gives a couple impressions of the regular longer type but not the true wireless style.


Yup.  Use them with my B&W PI7.  Perfect fit for me!


----------



## deuter

Luchyres said:


> Linkbuds S I strongly suggest.


The XM3's are less than half the price of the Linkbuds S, If I understand you correctly you're saying the Linkbuds S are sonically better than the XM3's? including calling functionality.


----------



## dweaver (Jun 21, 2022)

The Linkbuds S are supposed to be better than the XM4 for call quality! I have not tried them myself but pretty much every video I have watched easily demonstrates their superiority for calls. Sonically they are aupposed to be a bit more balanced than the XM4 which was darker than the XM3 from what I have read so I suspect the S will be similar sonically to the XM3 and has the added benefit of LDAC if your wife has an android phone.


----------



## Fleeple

dweaver said:


> The Linkbuds S are supposed to be better than the XM4 for call quality! I have not tried them myself but pretty much every video I have watched easily demonstrates their superiority for calls. Sonically they are aupposed to be a bit more balanced than the XM4 which was darker than the XM3 from what I have read so I suspect the S will be similar sonically to the XM3 and has the added benefit of LDAC if your wife has an android phone.


I was definitely told that I sounded clear with them, but I would be curious to see if call issues like mine were widespread. If they aren't, would definitely go for it 😊


----------



## Evshrug

subguy812 said:


> Well...I will say, ever since my first review on the Senns TW1, and then moving on to the TW2 I feel the sq has gotten pretty damn good. You know I do a lot of wired, but enjoy my wireless for walking etc. Unfortunately, the TW3 didn't work for me and this time I had to surpass the $299 threshold, with the B&O EX. I am definitely impressed with the progress of the TW offerings. How is the SQ of the Grell? Honestly, I would forego many features, ANC included, for stellar SQ and call quality alone.


Honestly, I used to think that ANC was totally unnecessary for in-ear headphones. I mean, they’re already like earplugs with passive isolation, right? Plus, the two ANC headphones I’d owned in the past added background hiss whenever noise cancelling was activated, had bloated bass bleed, and I wondered if the cancelled frequencies would dig “holes” in the playback frequency response.

And with the Sennheiser MTW2, not only did I not care about the added ANC, I didn’t care about the extended battery life because I think of TWS headphones as “daily items” that you always take and frequently recharge anyway, like a phone. Sennheiser gave me an MTW (first gen), and I liked it better than the V2 because it had the same sound quality EXCEPT the first Gen had no background hiss (gen 2 has a bit of “snow” as a trade-off for the more power efficient Qualcomm chip, but otherwise they use the same transducer and same tuning/acoustic capsule) and as a gamer I felt I wanted the aptX Low Latency codec that was only in the gen 1 MTW. So, the original MTW was the best SQ true wireless I’d heard and only one I bothered owning for awhile. I have not heard the current MTW3.

And honestly, the grell TWS/1 is a leap ahead of the MTW. It also has no snow, even with ANC on, but it sounds so much more organic… the MTW has some digital glare and robotic sound that I didn’t notice till I compared with the grell side-by-side, whereas the grell sounds like a nice wired headphone. The fact that you get 1+4 charges and the case will hold a charge for a month is a bonus, but realizing I could just drop the case on my wireless charger while I use the headphones on a walk was a game-changer for me (somehow, I didn’t connect this dot while I used the MTW).

Turns out, the ANC does create a more cleaning listening environment, even if I am walking a park. On top of that, Axel explained that it actually IMPROVES the base SQ by reducing distortion, which I re-share here:


Some disclosures for everyone else here in the name of honesty and fairness: I used to do contract work for Sennheiser and I still respect them, but I left to rejoin Axel doing contract work with his grell audio small company. And the grell wasn’t all peaches and cream when it launched… as with all wireless products, there’s a chance for signal interference, but we were able to greatly improve connection stability with a firmware update this spring, so now a connection stutter is rare.



jant71 said:


> ...and with all the functions they leave out the rewind. No rewind, no aptX, and no option for the bass control. Like the aptX and rewind I am not on board.  Might be some peoples cup of tea though.


The first notes of a song are often my favorite and the most likely to give me ASMR goosebumps… they set the tone for the whole song! So I use rewind a lot. One button might not be such a problem for me when I’m using my iPhone as a source, because I also have their smartwatch which gives me full remote control, but it’s still an issue if I want to use Bluetooth with my PC while using a full-screen app or with my iPad/NVIDIA Shield/etc that really benefit from remote controls.

It’s hard to argue against touch controls when it comes to a wide array of remote control functions. As long as the touch is as responsive as a smartphone 😉. Controls on both earpieces also ensure that the most commonly used functions (pause, volume, rewind/ff, transparent mode) are just a single tap or swipe away. How do you even control volume on those headphones??

@Fleeple It would be very interesting to me to read what you didn’t like about the AirPods Pro


----------



## Fleeple

Evshrug said:


> Honestly, I used to think that ANC was totally unnecessary for in-ear headphones. I mean, they’re already like earplugs with passive isolation, right? Plus, the two ANC headphones I’d owned in the past added background hiss whenever noise cancelling was activated, had bloated bass bleed, and I wondered if the cancelled frequencies would dig “holes” in the playback frequency response.
> 
> And with the Sennheiser MTW2, not only did I not care about the added ANC, I didn’t care about the extended battery life because I think of TWS headphones as “daily items” that you always take and frequently recharge anyway, like a phone. Sennheiser gave me an MTW (first gen), and I liked it better than the V2 because it had the same sound quality EXCEPT the first Gen had no background hiss (gen 2 has a bit of “snow” as a trade-off for the more power efficient Qualcomm chip, but otherwise they use the same transducer and same tuning/acoustic capsule) and as a gamer I felt I wanted the aptX Low Latency codec that was only in the gen 1 MTW. So, the original MTW was the best SQ true wireless I’d heard and only one I bothered owning for awhile. I have not heard the current MTW3.
> 
> ...



I will readily admit that I borrowed them from a friend, and can only base my thoughts off of their sound tuning and the feel of the earbuds. But I distinctly recall not being a fan of how they felt in my ear; I would try them again, but enough people have mentioned how much you lose when using them on an android that it kind of feels like a waste. 

TLDR: I am by no means a professional audiophile, and I am very fickle.


----------



## Evshrug

Fleeple said:


> I will readily admit that I borrowed them from a friend, and can only base my thoughts off of their sound tuning and the feel of the earbuds. But I distinctly recall not being a fan of how they felt in my ear; I would try them again, but enough people have mentioned how much you lose when using them on an android that it kind of feels like a waste.
> 
> TLDR: I am by no means a professional audiophile, and I am very fickle.


I get that… but I think it’s fair to say you are well experienced!

I haven’t owned a pair myself, but until 2017 I worked Apple retail, so I got to borrow the first versions quite regularly. I couldn’t find a comfortable fit, just like all their EarPods since they ditched the foam slip covers, but the Pros were a bit better. I’m learning Android through my DAPs and Android TV!


----------



## Fleeple

Evshrug said:


> I get that… but I think it’s fair to say you are well experienced!
> 
> I haven’t owned a pair myself, but until 2017 I worked Apple retail, so I got to borrow the first versions quite regularly. I couldn’t find a comfortable fit, just like all their EarPods since they ditched the foam slip covers, but the Pros were a bit better. I’m learning Android through my DAPs and Android TV!


Why thank you 😊 interesting.....my sister prefers the old style but all different kinds of ears out there. What have you had the best luck with thus far? 

Also would love to try the Grells again now that I have a solid selection of 3rd party tips, but would you say the microphone quality has been tweaked any since launch?


----------



## Evshrug




----------



## Fleeple

Evshrug said:


>


This is such a mood 😭


----------



## Evshrug (Jun 22, 2022)

Fleeple said:


> Why thank you 😊 interesting.....my sister prefers the old style but all different kinds of ears out there. What have you had the best luck with thus far?
> 
> Also would love to try the Grells again now that I have a solid selection of 3rd party tips, but would you say the microphone quality has been tweaked any since launch?


By “the old style,” do you mean the ones that came with the classic wheel-interface iPods? Because those were the ones that had foam and fit me better too!

I do pretty well with smaller headphones that don’t have angled edges of the enclosure pressing against my ears, and I particularly like comply foam tips. I’ve been experimenting with Acoustune AT07 small tips, and they fit nicely secure, but they still feel slightly large for listening for more than two hours. I still haven’t found my perfect tips, and it seems tips matter the most for me! I actually quite liked the stock tips that came with the Phonak IEMs, the BLON BL-03, and the small tips that came with the IE 300 and IE 900. I actually use the latter on my grells a lot 😅 I need to order some more Comply, it’s been a few years.

I’m not exactly sure which microphones gave you issue on the grells… they haven’t changed.

On the three samples I’ve had at home, I’ve received call quality compliments that people can hear me well,  and I even used them while speaking on Sonic Visions podcasts a few times, though of course I wouldn’t use it for voiceover recordings. They are designed to cut wind noise well, too. In transparent mode, the microphones sound fuller and richer as they reproduce the environmental sounds… but to do that in with natural gain levels, there’s no audio processing to de-noise and focus just on ambient vocals, so there’s a bit of hiss in transparent mode. If I’m trying to listen for traffic dangers, ordering food at a cafe, or something, I’m OK worth transparent mode as-is, but I prefer ANC on for serious listening.

I don’t know if that’s the answer you’re looking for, but I figure it’s better to be honest and say the mics are good for ANC and functional phone calls, but won’t sound as good as a lavalier mic or a studio mic.


----------



## FYLegend

After some further testing with the Liberty 3 Pro I am a little disappointed with the volume levelling of transparency mode. When it detects louder sounds (try clapping loudly for a few seconds), it causes the transparency feed to dip significantly for a few seconds and usually only on one ear.  After a while it regains the original volume (unlike Galaxy Buds+ which permanently decreases the volume until you re-activate ambient mode) but it can be disorienting, and it does mean I have to play the piano quieter.

I'm also noticing the intermittent popping/clicking sound usually on the right bud when I "flex" my ears or eyebrows or talk. I'm not exactly sure what's causing it (some suspected a hardware defect) but I'm leaning towards this is a manifestation of driver flex/ear pressure with some units more suspect than others. It's pretty annoying the medium-sized eartips have a tendency to flip back when I take them out of my ears - slowly twisting the earbuds out reduces the chances of it happening. I haven't tried third party eartips but wonder if something that relieves the pressure may help. It seems less obvious with the largest eartips but the sound tuning becomes quite different with the sub-bass to mid-bass being more prominent. The treble is less fatiguing, even with LDAC turned on, but the sound is quite dark, perhaps more similar to the Soundcore Life Q30.


----------



## assassin10000 (Jun 22, 2022)

Evshrug said:


> By “the old style,” do you mean the ones that came with the classic wheel-interface iPods? Because those were the ones that had foam and fit me better too!
> 
> I do pretty well with smaller headphones that don’t have angled edges of the enclosure pressing against my ears, and I particularly like comply foam tips. I’ve been experimenting with Acoustune AT07 small tips, and they fit nicely secure, but they still feel slightly large for listening for more than two hours. I still haven’t found my perfect tips, and it seems tips matter the most for me! I actually quite liked the stock tips that came with the Phonak IEMs, the BLON BL-03, and the small tips that came with the IE 300 and IE 900. I actually use the latter on my grells a lot 😅 I need to order some more Comply, it’s been a few years.
> 
> ...



If you like foam tips, do you prefer barrel or round ones?

If you're a fan of barrel style, the tennmak 'strong' foams are excellent and have an outer skin. Makes them easy to wipe clean and they last a long time. They can also be cleaned with a mild soap and warm water.

There's also some excellent round tips found on AE called ts400 iirc. Some of the most comfortable. Only thing better were the shure olives.



Edit: back on topic, anyone have side by side pics of the sony linkbuds and samsung buds live? Looking for a size comparison.


----------



## Fleeple

Evshrug said:


> By “the old style,” do you mean the ones that came with the classic wheel-interface iPods? Because those were the ones that had foam and fit me better too!
> 
> I do pretty well with smaller headphones that don’t have angled edges of the enclosure pressing against my ears, and I particularly like comply foam tips. I’ve been experimenting with Acoustune AT07 small tips, and they fit nicely secure, but they still feel slightly large for listening for more than two hours. I still haven’t found my perfect tips, and it seems tips matter the most for me! I actually quite liked the stock tips that came with the Phonak IEMs, the BLON BL-03, and the small tips that came with the IE 300 and IE 900. I actually use the latter on my grells a lot 😅 I need to order some more Comply, it’s been a few years.
> 
> ...


I'm afraid I mean the gen 1 tws earbuds, although she also really liked the wired ones 😅 not the foam tho. 

I can't remember if that's what I'm remembering then.....i may have to give them another go


----------



## Juturna

I'm currently trying real hard to talk myself out of getting the B&O EX instead of getting a cheaper set this month... I shouldn't get the EX but I've realized that I think I can afford it this month...


----------



## subguy812

Juturna said:


> I'm currently trying real hard to talk myself out of getting the B&O EX instead of getting a cheaper set this month... I shouldn't get the EX but I've realized that I think I can afford it this month...


I love the sq of the EX. Not to make your decision any more difficult.


----------



## Tenlow

subguy812 said:


> I love the sq of the EX. Not to make your decision any more difficult.


Speaking of which...I've also just pulled the trigger and ordered the EX. It was just a matter of time  Should be here soon. Excited to compare them to my still beloved MTW3.


----------



## erockg

Fleeple said:


> Why thank you 😊 interesting.....my sister prefers the old style but all different kinds of ears out there. What have you had the best luck with thus far?
> 
> Also would love to try the Grells again now that I have a solid selection of 3rd party tips, but would you say the microphone quality has been tweaked any since launch?


Sadly, I returned mine about two weeks-ish after I got them  - a long time ago now.  The fit was tough for me and the Sound ID app at the time had a lot of bugs.  At times, I did enjoy the sound, but lately, for me, other options sounded better to my ears.  Sooooo many choices...


----------



## erockg (Jun 23, 2022)

jant71 said:


> Got a basic case size comparison...
> 
> TW-E5b case is about 2" tall and 2.5" wide.
> 
> ...


My weekly wild hair kicked in and I picked up the Yamaha TW-E5B.  Decent soundstage, still tip rolling but the Azla are working for me.  Fit is nice.  Clear and smooth sound.  The only thing that I own that might be similar are the Noble Falcon ANC, less the extra features of the NF ANC.  The NFA have more sub-bass, but I'll still keep tweaking the EQ on the E5B.  The NFA app is incredibly robust in comparison.  But I actually hear a little distortion in the NFA.  Lowering the gain knocks it out.  Transparency on the E5B is much more natural.  The NFA get so much louder, but the E5B are no slouch, I actually think they sound better at first listen.  Smooth, easy, wide and everything just works.  These Yamaha are a huge step in a better direction than the E3A & B.  I didn't like those at all.  I'm really looking forward to the E7B now.


----------



## J_3000

Tenlow said:


> Speaking of which...I've also just pulled the trigger and ordered the EX. It was just a matter of time  Should be here soon. Excited to compare them to my still beloved MTW3.


Im waiting for your comparison. I have the MTW3. I like them, but still been tempted to have a go with the EX. Few days a go the EX was out of stock and discounted to 350€ on Amazon.de and couldn't resist on pulling the trigger.

Now I dont know how long I have to wait for them. My MTW3 return window closes on the last day, most likely I wont get the EX by then.


----------



## erockg

J_3000 said:


> Im waiting for your comparison. I have the MTW3. I like them, but still been tempted to have a go with the EX. Few days a go the EX was out of stock and discounted to 350€ on Amazon.de and couldn't resist on pulling the trigger.
> 
> Now I dont know how long I have to wait for them. My MTW3 return window closes on the last day, most likely I wont get the EX by then.


I very much prefer the EX over the MTW3.  The sound on the EX is euphoric.  You made a great decision


----------



## vladzakhar

Opposite to me. I send the EX back, and keeping MTW3. Better sound to my ears. And the form factor is more comfy. Also, the BT range is longer.


----------



## samandhi

assassin10000 said:


> If you like foam tips, do you prefer barrel or round ones?
> 
> If you're a fan of barrel style, the tennmak 'strong' foams are excellent and have an outer skin. Makes them easy to wipe clean and they last a long time. They can also be cleaned with a mild soap and warm water.
> 
> ...


----------



## jant71

erockg said:


> My weekly wild hair kicked in and I picked up the Yamaha TW-E5B.  Decent soundstage, still tip rolling but the Azla are working for me.  Fit is nice.  Clear and smooth sound.  The only thing that I own that might be similar are the Noble Focus ANC, less the extra features of the NF ANC.  The NFA have more sub-bass, but I'll still keep tweaking the EQ on the E5B.  The NFA app is incredibly robust in comparison.  But I actually hear a little distortion in the NFA.  Lowering the gain knocks it out.  Transparency on the E5B is much more natural.  The NFA get so much louder, but the E5B are no slouch, I actually think they sound better at first listen.  Smooth, easy, wide and everything just works.  These Yamaha are a huge step in a better direction than the E3A & B.  I didn't like those at all.  I'm really looking forward to the E7B now.


Hmmmm...those don't sound half bad. Also nice when things just always work. No volume control locks up, right bud freezes, ambient has a quirk, or whatever oddities seem to happen on various models here and there.


----------



## dweaver

Well, I caved and ordered the Linkbuds S. Hope like hell they tick all the boxes I am looking for and the EQ works well of the default signature isn't to my liking.

I am thinking if they are nice and comfy with decent features and reasonable battery life I will sell my AZ60band if I really like them will also sell the Samsung Galaxy Buds Pro.

The Gbuds Pro sound great but the ANC is so weak and the AZ60 sound good but are a bit uncomfortable to wear and lack a few features I like about the Linkbuds S.

The real trick will be if I like the sound or not... Thinking I will just carry the UTWS5/FH5 for when I want great sound quality.


----------



## Uncle00Jesse

I think you’ll enjoy them. Linkbuds S are king right now for me


----------



## Juturna

dweaver said:


> Well, I caved and ordered the Linkbuds S. Hope like hell they tick all the boxes I am looking for and the EQ works well of the default signature isn't to my liking.
> 
> I am thinking if they are nice and comfy with decent features and reasonable battery life I will sell my AZ60band if I really like them will also sell the Samsung Galaxy Buds Pro.
> 
> ...


I don't think I've had Sony earbuds that I've liked the sound quality on since way back before wireless earbuds were a thing.  
They're never BAD, but I feel like they're never close to my preferred tuning and using EQ they can obviously be okay-to-good but I've never been particularly impressed. They're usually impressive in all other aspects than the sound though.

I'm not sure if my taste has changed with the years or the sound signature of those wired Sony earbuds were completely different because I remembered preferring them to the Sennheisers, Philips, etc that I also tried at that point.


----------



## Juturna

Also damn, googling for "best sounding true wireless earbuds" really is a crap shoot... Despite claiming to be audio-centric lists usually have the Jabra Elite 7s or XM4s at the very top. 
Not to mention almost all the lists are identical to a point where you can tell they've only heard the most POPULAR TWS's, not necessarily the best or best-sounding ones.


----------



## helmutcheese

IEM with built-in Tuneable EQ​


----------



## msooffutt

This is for you guys with the Noble Fokus pros.  Do any of you know what “anc display” does?  I don’t remember seeing this switch before the last update a few days ago.


----------



## erockg

msooffutt said:


> This is for you guys with the Noble Fokus pros.  Do any of you know what “anc display” does?  I don’t remember seeing this switch before the last update a few days ago.


Probably for the Fokus ANC buds which come out later this year.


----------



## msooffutt (Jun 23, 2022)

erockg said:


> Probably for the Fokus ANC buds which come out later this year.


Ah yes, you’re probably right. I forgot about those.  I was hoping maybe the pros had the hardware built inside, and maybe they would add transparency at some point.  I know, that’s wishful thinking.  Not a big deal since they sound awesome, but sometimes I do wish they had transparency.  A man can dream


----------



## JoshG1217

Just ordered these. I have the Yamaha overear BT and they have a really nice sound. Resolving for BT, good stage, and maybe the best bass I've ever heard. Very articulate and commanding. Hoping these are a chip off of that block. The anoic 50 are great as well for an over ear, but their tws adapters are terrible.


----------



## jant71 (Jun 23, 2022)

JoshG1217 said:


> Just ordered these. I have the Yamaha overear BT and they have a really nice sound. Resolving for BT, good stage, and maybe the best bass I've ever heard. Very articulate and commanding. Hoping these are a chip off of that block. The anoic 50 are great as well for an over ear, but their tws adapters are terrible.


You get most of those things. They just don't have a a chip powering them enough to be "commanding" and the overall volume is also not the highest out there. Fine volume but some EQ that cut gain to not distort may be an issue unless the app or player can give more gain back.

The thing I hope they do in the TW7b is give them more push for the bigger 10mm driver to have more forceful bass, no softness, and more headroom.



Juturna said:


> Also damn, googling for "best sounding true wireless earbuds" really is a crap shoot... Despite claiming to be audio-centric lists usually have the Jabra Elite 7s or XM4s at the very top.
> Not to mention almost all the lists are identical to a point where you can tell they've only heard the most POPULAR TWS's, not necessarily the best or best-sounding ones.


Best sounding of the free samples I got lists. Most of the really good sounding ones don't send out to reviewers. They can't afford to like the big brands. So, BOSE, Jabra, Sony, Sennheiser etc. are always there and the Noble would get you the look . B&O will be there on some of those lists though. They get out there and have the name recognition.


----------



## dweaver

@erockg did you end up sending your Linkbuds S back? Don't see much comments from you on them anymore?

I am at a point where none of my current TWS come close to the sound quality I get from the UTWS5/FH5 combo so they are all a compromise on sound quality.

I bought the Linkbuds S as they are supposed to be more balanced than the XM4 and have a lot of features and comfort I want. My hope is they can be something I put in and simply forget about as I go about my day and the music will be good enough that I can get emmersed to a degree and then have the bells and whistles function well enough that I don't need to constantly taking them in and out of my ears.

In short I am hoping Sony's sales pitch is legit... If so and the sound is adequate then I will scale back my TWS collection and just use the Fiio combo when I want more audiophile sound.


----------



## FullCircle

erockg said:


> My weekly wild hair kicked in and I picked up the Yamaha TW-E5B.  Decent soundstage, still tip rolling but the Azla are working for me.  Fit is nice.  Clear and smooth sound.  The only thing that I own that might be similar are the Noble Focus ANC, less the extra features of the NF ANC.  The NFA have more sub-bass, but I'll still keep tweaking the EQ on the E5B.  The NFA app is incredibly robust in comparison.  But I actually hear a little distortion in the NFA.  Lowering the gain knocks it out.  Transparency on the E5B is much more natural.  The NFA get so much louder, but the E5B are no slouch, I actually think they sound better at first listen.  Smooth, easy, wide and everything just works.  These Yamaha are a huge step in a better direction than the E3A & B.  I didn't like those at all.  I'm really looking forward to the E7B now.



Not to be picky, but I don't think there is such a thing as a Noble Focus ANC there is a Noble Falcon ANC.  

To be clear Falcon and Focus are not necessarily synonymous in the house of Noble. We run the two product lines separately, much like Ford/Lincoln or Toyota/Lexus.


----------



## FullCircle (Jun 23, 2022)

erockg said:


> Honestly, I’ve never heard of the McGee brand.  I’d definitely go with the Noble Falcon ANC over them. I’ve been a fan of Noble Audio products for quite some time. Looks like they both use the same/similar shell which is something that I’ve seen Noble and others do.  Personally, if you go with Noble you’re paying for their tuning. Jim does a great job. Plus they are like a mom and pop shop and are very attentive if you have any issues. They are known to post on this chain as well.



"Mom & Pop shop?!"





Ok OK

But we wear it well






The photo is me during the tuning process. I am grinning because I was surprised by how easy the process is with DSP compared to analog methods.    
-DSP is a game changer-


----------



## dweaver

@FullCircle there is a difference between being a company with a Mom and Pop shop attitude versus being a Mom and Popshop business . I suspect you fall in the first category...


----------



## FullCircle

dweaver said:


> @FullCircle there is a difference between being a company with a Mom and Pop shop attitude versus being a Mom and Popshop business . I suspect you fall in the first category...



We try our best, I often say Noble is comprised of a series of good mistakes. At the time, a lot of our challenges seemed like a catastrophe, but looking back....  they were some of the most integral moments that caused rampant positive changes/results.


----------



## Not so fat head

FYI

Here’s an actual real world test..
Big heatwave in California Bay Area.
Sitting in a Carl’s Jr and they had the Air conditioner on full blast.
I tried several TWS headphones, they all struggled to keep the noise down, while not interfere with the music (Mozarts sym 39).  All except the Bose QC’s. They are slightly edged out in sound signature, although I like a neutral sound, but did a remarkable job of delivering the goods today.
Other HP’s used..
PI7’s
Airpods Pro
Sennheiser M2


----------



## jant71

erockg said:


> Yup.  Use them with my B&W PI7.  Perfect fit for me!


Got the EPro tips in. Very nice fit and soft comfy silicone. Had to choose or you only get one pair in a size. Went L for the Soundmagic and to chance working better on my Waist Drum which is a barrel shaped IEM. They give a good stage and are nice at preserving treble. 

Nice battle going on on the Soundmagic atm between the EPro L and Bluedio Hi L tips. You might need to aim them more but there is something about an oval shaped tip.


----------



## erockg (Jun 23, 2022)

FullCircle said:


> Not to be picky, but I don't think there is such a thing as a Noble Focus ANC there is a Noble Falcon ANC.
> 
> To be clear Falcon and Focus are not necessarily synonymous in the house of Noble. We run the two product lines separately, much like Ford/Lincoln or Toyota/Lexus.


Oops, typo.  This is what happens when I stalk this chain during my busy day job   Pick all you want.  I'm a customer and I do know there are Falcons and Fokus'!


----------



## erockg

FullCircle said:


> "Mom & Pop shop?!"
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Well, you def do not look like a mom.  But c'mon, you know what I mean.  Noble isn't Sony or some conglomerate and you do things better on a smaller scale.  All compliments.  Now get us those FOKUS ANC buds!


----------



## erockg

dweaver said:


> @erockg did you end up sending your Linkbuds S back? Don't see much comments from you on them anymore?
> 
> I am at a point where none of my current TWS come close to the sound quality I get from the UTWS5/FH5 combo so they are all a compromise on sound quality.
> 
> ...


I did send them back and went back to the regular Linkbuds for in office.  The S kept making noise when I walked.  Drove me nuts.  Changed tips and nothing helped in my collection.  Maybe I'll revisit in the future, but my collection is overwhelming me lately.  I keep buying higher end buds!!!  Ugh.


----------



## erockg

jant71 said:


> You get most of those things. They just don't have a a chip powering them enough to be "commanding" and the overall volume is also not the highest out there. Fine volume but some EQ that cut gain to not distort may be an issue unless the app or player can give more gain back.
> 
> The thing I hope they do in the TW7b is give them more push for the bigger 10mm driver to have more forceful bass, no softness, and more headroom.
> 
> ...


Enjoying the Yamaha 5B so much I just ordered the 7B off Amazon Japan for delivery next week.  Showdown!!!


----------



## samandhi

Nobody on the entire forum has an addiction problem... Nope! 

I wonder if drugs and alcohol might be cheaper in the long run?


----------



## Ceeluh7

erockg said:


> Enjoying the Yamaha 5B so much I just ordered the 7B off Amazon Japan for delivery next week.  Showdown!!!


Nice... I may check these out


----------



## Ceeluh7

samandhi said:


> Nobody on the entire forum has an addiction problem... Nope!
> 
> I wonder if drugs and alcohol might be cheaper in the long run?


I have no idea what you are talking about... Addiction? Seriously though... Drugs are cheaper


----------



## scubaphish

FullCircle said:


> Not to be picky, but I don't think there is such a thing as a Noble Focus ANC there is a Noble Falcon ANC.
> 
> To be clear Falcon and Focus are not necessarily synonymous in the house of Noble. We run the two product lines separately, much like Ford/Lincoln or Toyota/Lexus.


I think it’s pretty funny how you’ll be all picky about what we all know about your current line up, while glossing over the fact that you did in fact release a FoKus app with an ANC setting. So yeah, um, maybe you don’t want to call attention to the fact that you’re watching the thread? Especially when you’re not simply answering the original question as to why. 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣  

Nothing fishy going on here.


----------



## jant71

erockg said:


> Enjoying the Yamaha 5B so much I just ordered the 7B off Amazon Japan for delivery next week.  Showdown!!!


Think over there they just dropped today!


----------



## samandhi

FullCircle said:


> Not to be picky, but I don't think there is such a thing as a Noble Focus ANC there is a Noble Falcon ANC.
> 
> To be clear Falcon and Focus are not necessarily synonymous in the house of Noble. We run the two product lines separately, much like Ford/Lincoln or Toyota/Lexus.


So, correct me sir if I am wrong, but isn't this the Noble FoKus ANC? Noble FoKus H-ANC to be more precise.

And, not to be picky, but according to your website, they are spelled "FoKus" not "Focus".


----------



## erockg

Ceeluh7 said:


> I have no idea what you are talking about... Addiction? Seriously though... Drugs are cheaper


I'm high on SOUND _right_ _now_.  Love it!


----------



## dweaver

erockg said:


> I did send them back and went back to the regular Linkbuds for in office.  The S kept making noise when I walked.  Drove me nuts.  Changed tips and nothing helped in my collection.  Maybe I'll revisit in the future, but my collection is overwhelming me lately.  I keep buying higher end buds!!!  Ugh.


sure as heck hope I don't have that issue! Good news is I ordered from Sony, so if they do have issue I can send them back. Versus buying at BestBuy in Canada with no return policy on IEM's.


----------



## erockg

dweaver said:


> sure as heck hope I don't have that issue! Good news is I ordered from Sony, so if they do have issue I can send them back. Versus buying at BestBuy in Canada with no return policy on IEM's.


I think you'll enjoy them. They're nice. Not audiophile fun, but all the bells and whistles work well.  For me, they fit so much than the XM4.


----------



## PixelSquish

I got the new sennheisers today the MTW3. I love the AZ60 but just having bad call quality with them outdoors anywhere too often.

I haven't tested the call quality with the sennheiser's yet but the sound is definitely the best I've ever heard in a wireless IEM. The bass is beautiful and tight, the highest have a little nice twinkle in them. And a better sound stage. 

Well I haven't tested a call quality yet outdoors, I'm outdoors right now. In fact I dictated this message via Google voice to text, and it's coming out perfect. When I did that with the techniques, of course it misspells that word, it was often a lot of having to delete and then re-speak. I think that automatically means the mics on the sennheisers are better


----------



## dweaver

@PixelSquish how comfy are the MTW3? I find the AZ60 a bit uncomfortable. Might have to try that dictate feature that sounds like a heck of a good test of the mic especially out doors.


----------



## BooleanBones

dweaver said:


> @PixelSquish how comfy are the MTW3? I find the AZ60 a bit uncomfortable. Might have to try that dictate feature that sounds like a heck of a good test of the mic especially out doors.


Maybe I am over simplifying this, but wouldn't a phone audio recorder give you a good simulation as well? Of course other variables are involved with calls/meetings, but that is always how I initially test them.


----------



## PixelSquish

dweaver said:


> @PixelSquish how comfy are the MTW3? I find the AZ60 a bit uncomfortable. Might have to try that dictate feature that sounds like a heck of a good test of the mic especially out doors.



I just had them in for over an hour. I've only tried the medium tips as that is what works for me almost always. Where the tips were inserted in my ears started getting a little bit uncomfortable, so I may have to try the small tips or some of my tip collection. As far as the main housing of the MTW3, it fits just fine in my ear. It's a sleek little package.

One downer is the MTW3 case is still as big as the MTW2 case. I don't know why they didn't slim it down a bit. It's totally possible if Technics and Sony did it, I have those as well.


----------



## PixelSquish

BooleanBones said:


> Maybe I am over simplifying this, but wouldn't a phone audio recorder give you a good simulation as well? Of course other variables are involved with calls/meetings, but that is always how I initially test them.



Yes that is a great way to test them, I'll try that as well. Good tip.


----------



## erockg

BooleanBones said:


> Maybe I am over simplifying this, but wouldn't a phone audio recorder give you a good simulation as well? Of course other variables are involved with calls/meetings, but that is always how I initially test them.





PixelSquish said:


> Yes that is a great way to test them, I'll try that as well. Good tip.


This is what I do as well as soon as I get a new pair of buds.


----------



## FullCircle (Jun 23, 2022)

samandhi said:


> So, correct me sir if I am wrong, but isn't this the Noble FoKus ANC? Noble FoKus H-ANC to be more precise.
> 
> And, not to be picky, but according to your website, they are spelled "FoKus"



We have a product named:

FoKus H-ANC

& a product named:

Falcon ANC

They are not synonymous, like pledged and donated are not synonymous.


----------



## FullCircle

erockg said:


> Well, you def do not look like a mom.  But c'mon, you know what I mean.  Noble isn't Sony or some conglomerate and you do things better on a smaller scale.  All compliments.  Now get us those FOKUS ANC buds!


----------



## samandhi

FullCircle said:


> We have a product named:
> 
> FoKus H-ANC
> 
> ...


I realize they aren't synonymous, but what you said is that a Noble FoKus ANC doesn't exist (not really a big deal either way):


FullCircle said:


> Not to be picky, but I don't think there is such a thing as a Noble Focus ANC there is a Noble Falcon ANC.


----------



## FullCircle

samandhi said:


> I realize they aren't synonymous, but what you said is that a Noble FoKus ANC doesn't exist (not really a big deal either way):



We do not have a product Named FoKus ANC

We do have a FoKus product with the ANC function


----------



## samandhi (Jun 23, 2022)

FullCircle said:


> We do not have a product Named FoKus ANC
> 
> We do have a FoKus product with the ANC function


Ah! So is this a fake then?

What I am saying is that brand = Noble Model = FoKus model number/type = ANC

or brand = Noble = Model = Falcon model number/type = ANC

No?


----------



## FullCircle

samandhi said:


> Ah! So is this a fake then?
> 
> What I am saying is that brand = Noble Model = FoKus model number/type = ANC
> 
> ...



No conspiracy here, I'm the fella that actually named the FoKus H-ANC


----------



## samandhi (Jun 24, 2022)

FullCircle said:


> No conspiracy here, I'm the fella that actually named the FoKus H-ANC


Congratulations! It is a good name (though that makes for so much more irony that you spelled it wrong earlier).   

I actually wasn't thinking that deep; nor am I trying to offend...  Nothing more than semantics. I was simply trying to understand. The difference here is that Lincoln (for instance) is owned by Ford (since 1922), but they are their own company (a subsidiary of Ford in fact), and you won't see Ford stamped all over one of them, regardless of the model name.

The FoKus ANC have the Noble stamp right up front, so I am assuming they aren't made by a subsidiary of Noble, but by Noble. Hence the name Noble FoKus H-ANC. And it seems as though you are saying there isn't a "Noble" FoKus ANC, but simply FoKus ANC (as if that is both the brand, and the model name). If it walks like a duck and talks like a duck.... But, I digress, and it is probably a great product.

Don't mind me; it isn't that important at the end of the day anyhow. Everyone knows where to get said product....

As mentioned, it's all good either way.


----------



## FullCircle

samandhi said:


> Congratulations! It is a good name (though that makes for so much more irony that you spelled it wrong earlier).
> 
> I actually wasn't thinking that deep; nor am I trying to offend...  Nothing more than semantics. I was simply trying to understand. The difference here is that Lincoln (for instance) is owned by Ford (since 1922), but they are their own company (a subsidiary of Ford in fact), and you won't see Ford stamped all over one of them, regardless of the model name.
> 
> ...



Auto correct 
3 AM texts in the dark

Things happen

As for the internal dynamics of Noble, well they are internal.


----------



## subguy812

samandhi said:


> Congratulations! It is a good name (though that makes for so much more irony that you spelled it wrong earlier).
> 
> I actually wasn't thinking that deep; nor am I trying to offend...  Nothing more than semantics. I was simply trying to understand. The difference here is that Lincoln (for instance) is owned by Ford (since 1922), but they are their own company (a subsidiary of Ford in fact), and you won't see Ford stamped all over one of them, regardless of the model name.
> 
> ...


To me it looks like FoKus H-ANC by Noble, yes the same as Genesis by Hyundai

edited: not to provoke a site sponsor


----------



## Luchyres

erockg said:


> I did send them back and went back to the regular Linkbuds for in office.  The S kept making noise when I walked.  Drove me nuts.  Changed tips and nothing helped in my collection.  Maybe I'll revisit in the future, but my collection is overwhelming me lately.  I keep buying higher end buds!!!  Ugh.


@erockg did you have the noise even with ANC and Transparency disabled? I'll have to check mine for what you're talking about but I think mine are pretty silent with both of those off walking around (and on a bike) though there's a good deal of wind noise with either on on the bike (not walking)


----------



## erockg

Luchyres said:


> @erockg did you have the noise even with ANC and Transparency disabled? I'll have to check mine for what you're talking about but I think mine are pretty silent with both of those off walking around (and on a bike) though there's a good deal of wind noise with either on on the bike (not walking)


Yeah, I think it's just the fit with my ears.  My Devialet Gemini do the same thing at times.  It's annoying.


----------



## regancipher

SoundPEATS Air3 Pro Review here
FIIL Key review coming this week hopefully!


----------



## Caipirina

jant71 said:


> Seen these yet? https://www.amazon.com/dp/B09WMJCQR...EONTHEMAKING_&aa_creativeid=US-ZMB2t5JgG&th=1
> 
> 
> Almost looks pretty good. Not liking the 2X bass thing. Like some other sports buds I would rather a bass boost mode on board than having no choice in the matter.


Saw one review on YT, that guy was also not liking that double bass ... 
Great, they are 80USD in the US and 100€ in the EU ...  not fair


----------



## Caipirina (Jun 24, 2022)

dweaver said:


> Just stole my son's Soundcore Life Note 3 for an hour or two. Bought them for him at Xmas on sale for around $80.
> 
> They actually sounded better than any of the Jabra's I have tried (Elite 3 and 7) and had better ANC than the 7. Not all the bells and whistles but a very nice comfy TWS. I like them more than the Sony WF-C500 too. Soundcore puts out some really decent stuff. Makes me tempted to try the Liberty 3 Pro.



Weird, I can't find any Life Note 3 on my amazon ... either just 'Note' or the 'Note 3S', which actually intrigues me for it's semi open design ... too bad amazon also claims at one point they have ANC (which they have not) .. dreams crushed ...

But I keep checking reviews and look who I found


----------



## jant71 (Jun 24, 2022)

Caipirina said:


> Saw one review on YT, that guy was also not liking that double bass ...
> Great, they are 80USD in the US and 100€ in the EU ...  not fair


Might be okay if you can adjust the sound in the app and it stays stored on the earbuds. Seems they are pretty good and have better than $80 ANC. Should be price drops as well. These should be a worthwhile option if you can work with them or if you are a basshead. Gamesky seemed to like them but also used the bass reducer setting in the app. No Qi disappoints some of the reviewers.


New Aviot. Under $100 ANC single dynamic blah, blah. The good or slightly interesting thing is that they are measuring ears and looking to improve the shape and fit. JVC getting smaller and fitting better, Yamaha with a new good fitting design, Sony with the LB S design, Glidic paired with Canalworks to shape their TWS designs. The competition is much better so they seriously needed to up their ergo/fit game.



A bit Jabra shaped there. On the right track or a better track at least.


----------



## dweaver

Caipirina said:


> Weird, I can't find any Life Note 3 on my amazon ... either just 'Note' or the 'Note 3S', which actually intrigues me for it's semi open design ... too bad amazon also claims at one point they have ANC (which they have not) .. dreams crushed ...
> 
> But I keep checking reviews and look who I found


I bought this at Best Buy, so it will be a slightly different name than the one on Amazon. Soundcore products are confusing in that way.

It's essentially the same product as Life P3 but possibly slightly different is some finer specs.


----------



## dweaver (Jun 24, 2022)

Well my Linkbuds S are delayed until next Tuesday. Shipping and customer service is definitely slower than Amazon. But I was able to pay this over 2 months interest free versus coughing up $318 all at once...

In the mean time I am adjusting to the Sony sound by using my WI-1000X in the house. They suck outside due to wind noise off the cables but inside they sound very nice.

Sure hope they have no issues, will have my finger on the return button if not satisfied, just to much money if not fully satisfied.

Thinking of using every bell a whistle feature that is possible, from the Endel app, geo location for various noise cancellation / ambient modes, speak to chat features (have to stop singing lol), etc. I really want to see if I can adapt to using them without having to remove them all the time. Also really hope the mics work as good as they appear to in reviews.

Has any one used the Sony app for switching between 2 devices? I am hopeful it will suffice for switching between my PC and my phone for teams and potential VoIP calls when I am on call for work.

Edit: just read about the multi-app function for the Sony App. Have to say if it works as stated that is going to be perfect for my needs! Very happy with what they have implemented.


----------



## JoshG1217

erockg said:


> Enjoying the Yamaha 5B so much I just ordered the 7B off Amazon Japan for delivery next week.  Showdown!!!


I haven't been able to find them!... and I don't live in Japan


----------



## BooleanBones

JoshG1217 said:


> I haven't been able to find them!... and I don't live in Japan


I’ll sell ya mine


----------



## Not so fat head

This new Yamaha shows us just crazy Apples R&D budget is..   Even Yamaha isn’t developing custom silicon, using off the shelf with proprietary algorithms..
Apple will be uncatchable within a couple years, if not already with IOS devices.  
Unfortunately for Apple users, this will severely limit choices, 👎


----------



## JoshG1217

BooleanBones said:


> I’ll sell ya mine


You have the two e7b? According to Yamaha, it's not out yet.


----------



## BooleanBones

JoshG1217 said:


> You have the two e7b? According to Yamaha, it's not out yet.


sorry, misread. I have the 5s.


----------



## JoshG1217

BooleanBones said:


> sorry, misread. I have the 5s.


You don't care for them?


----------



## BooleanBones

JoshG1217 said:


> You don't care for them?


I just don't use them (better options)


----------



## JoshG1217

BooleanBones said:


> I just don't use them (better options)


Well, mine arrive Sunday. If I like them, I may buy your pair too.


----------



## erockg

JoshG1217 said:


> I haven't been able to find them!... and I don't live in Japan


If you're in the states, you can buy from Amazon Japan and ship them to the USA.  I do it all the time for tws buds.


----------



## erockg

BooleanBones said:


> I just don't use them (better options)


E5A or E5B?  I got the B here that just came out, new 7s enroute from our Amazon friends in Japan.  I really didn't like the E5As.  I think back when I had them, Amazon US accidentally sent me a case of them (no lie).  I was the good customer who sent them back and kept one.


----------



## erockg (Jun 25, 2022)

Amazon just dropped off these new Philips TAT8506  and I'm actually surprised  they don't stink.  Didn't think Philips could make a good sounding headphone.  Well, I'm wrong.  These sound good and ANC is very good at home.  Even blocks out Paw Patrol... sigh...


----------



## J_3000

MTW3 in graphite discounted to 190€ at Amazon.de.


----------



## jant71

erockg said:


> Amazon just dropped off these new Philips TAT8506  and I'm actually surprised  they don't stink.  Didn't think Philips could make a good sounding headphone.  Well, I'm wrong.  These sound good and ANC is very good at home.  Even blocks out Paw Patrol... sigh...


Think that is a setting in the app...

ANC:     Low -> Med -> Paw Patrol


----------



## C_Lindbergh

J_3000 said:


> MTW3 in graphite discounted to 190€ at Amazon.de.



Wow, for that price the value proposition for the MTW3 is just insane!


----------



## Tenlow

So, the B&O EX have just arrived. Have only charged them up and updated the firmware yet. 

More to come soon


----------



## subguy812

Received a new update for the B&O EX...it is updating as I type this.


----------



## Tenlow

subguy812 said:


> Received a new update for the B&O EX...it is updating as I type this.


5.3.6?


----------



## subguy812

Tenlow said:


> 5.3.6?


Yes


----------



## Tenlow

subguy812 said:


> Yes


That was the one I've just updated to after unboxing them


----------



## erockg

Tenlow said:


> That was the one I've just updated to after unboxing them


I see it too but it doesn’t list any release notes . Updating…


----------



## Juturna (Jun 25, 2022)

For $190-200 the MTW3 seems like a really good value, but I'll be damned if I don't think they sounded very average when I've tried them out. I've been so close to buying them for the discounted price... But then I remember that I've heard them.
I don't know if I'm literally going crazy but I really enjoyed the MTW2 even though it wasn't perfect, but the MTW3 left me surprised with how poor I found the audio quality/tuning to be, even messing with the EQ in the app. Sure, Wavelet could probably improve them a lot... But eh. 

Not sure what everybody else is hearing that I'm not hearing.


----------



## BooleanBones

erockg said:


> E5A or E5B?  I got the B here that just came out, new 7s enroute from our Amazon friends in Japan.  I really didn't like the E5As.  I think back when I had them, Amazon US accidentally sent me a case of them (no lie).  I was the good customer who sent them back and kept one.


I got the TW-E5B a while back from Japan.


----------



## Not so fat head

Just my opinion....
I never update immediately.  I listen for a while, if I like what I hear, then good enough.  I'll check update history and feedback, and maybe update...
Can save you many headaches.  😃


----------



## Tenlow (Jun 25, 2022)

A couple of very early first EX impressions:

*Positive*:

- Beautiful case and nice build quality
- Very comfortable
- Secure fit (have only tried the silicone tips so far)
- Significantly louder than the EQ
- Very enjoyable sound (with ANC on)
- Responsive touch controls
- Multipoint Bluetooth out of the box
- Extended three years warranty - very nice and welcome for the high price point.
- Connection so far has been stable.
- IP57 rating, still fairly rare for many TWS.
- Seemingly frequent firmware updates so far

*Neutral:*

- Average ANC, I can already tell.
- Transparency mode isn't very strong either (but at least doesn't have white noise)
- OK app. Pretty much the same features as the EQ had.
- A tiny bit shouty on high volumes? Not sure yet...

*Negative:*

- Unfortunately no customizable touch controls
- Sound in ANC mode is significantly bassier than in "neutral" mode. Seems a bit flat and lifeless in neutral mode as a first impression.
- In single bud mode, the right bud can only skip tracks forward and the left one only backwards.
- No volume control in single bud mode as well as no transparency mode.


Cannot say anything about battery life or call quality yet.

I do like them so far. As expected though, not sure if they are necessarily worth 399, especially in comparison to the MTW3 I paid half the price for but time will tell. They are definitely way more comfortable than the EQ and thankfully so much louder, too.


----------



## BooleanBones

Tenlow said:


> A couple of very early first EX impressions:
> 
> *Positive*:
> 
> ...


You forgot waterproof in your pros. I agree completely with all that you noted.


----------



## Tenlow

BooleanBones said:


> You forgot waterproof in your pros. I agree completely with all that you noted.


True, wanted to add that but forgot. That IP57 rating is nice indeed!


----------



## Caipirina (Jun 25, 2022)

J_3000 said:


> MTW3 in graphite discounted to 190€ at Amazon.de.


Darn, I wish I had seen that a tad earlier, just saw it for 210 (black) and 209.90 for graphite ... and wanted to spill the beans here only to find out that I could have saved another 20€ ... darn this hobby!
At least I can return if I do not like


----------



## C_Lindbergh

I'm still really enjoying the Linkbuds S, great comfort/fit, pretty good SQ and amazing Anc/ambient mode. 

But....it's incredibly annoying that you can't fully customize the touch controls...Almost a deal breaker for me personally. 

Why can't Sony and other major OEMs give us that simple option -_-


----------



## regancipher

Caipirina said:


> Weird, I can't find any Life Note 3 on my amazon ... either just 'Note' or the 'Note 3S', which actually intrigues me for it's semi open design ... too bad amazon also claims at one point they have ANC (which they have not) .. dreams crushed ...
> 
> But I keep checking reviews and look who I found


cover blown!


----------



## erockg

erockg said:


> Amazon just dropped off these new Philips TAT8506  and I'm actually surprised  they don't stink.  Didn't think Philips could make a good sounding headphone.  Well, I'm wrong.  These sound good and ANC is very good at home.  Even blocks out Paw Patrol... sigh...


Whelp, they're going back.  Sound is great but the fit for ME is awful.  If you move around too much they just don't stay in well.  That and the tap control functions are not user intuitive at all.  Too many steps to do anything.  Hasta la vista, Philips.  You won't be back.


----------



## subguy812 (Jun 26, 2022)

Tenlow said:


> A couple of very early first EX impressions:
> 
> *Positive*:
> 
> ...


I agree with your Positives, and all Neutrals(except shoutiness, don't hear that), and yes the biggest Negative can't customize the controls, if you could customize, the "right bud"  could be used to control what features you wanted.

Have you tried to create a custom sound while in Neutral mode?

Battery life, I have seen better and worse, depends on ANC and volume. Call quality is great or so I have been told.

Curious, what tips did you settle with?


----------



## maor26

Has anyone tried these yet?

https://us.soundcore.com/products/a3961011

I've been looking for a decent pair of TWS earbuds with a ear-hook for a while now, but there aren't many options out there.
There are the powerbeats pro from apple, Endurance peak from jbl, something from skull candy, and the rest are pretty much all cheap chinese brands.


----------



## jant71

maor26 said:


> Has anyone tried these yet?
> 
> https://us.soundcore.com/products/a3961011
> 
> ...


People are not that convinced yet so the place to check is Youtube. They have been sending them out and reviews are stacking up.


----------



## Tommy C

maor26 said:


> Has anyone tried these yet?
> 
> https://us.soundcore.com/products/a3961011
> 
> ...


If you want the best earhook style TWS get the Shure TW2 and you will be also using the adapters alone once you realize how good the SQ is with better IEMs. I’m really satisfied with the Shure adapters.


----------



## BooleanBones

Tommy C said:


> If you want the best earhook style TWS get the Shure TW2 and you will be also using the adapters alone once you realize how good the SQ is with better IEMs. I’m really satisfied with the Shure adapters.


I find them a better fit as well. I have started using them with my IE600s and likely won’t switch back to the FIIO adapter.


----------



## maor26

jant71 said:


> People are not that convinced yet so the place to check is Youtube. They have been sending them out and reviews are stacking up.


I've seen some youtube reviews, just thought I'd ask here for a less biased opinion.
Thanks for the suggestion.


Tommy C said:


> If you want the best earhook style TWS get the Shure TW2 and you will be also using the adapters alone once you realize how good the SQ is with better IEMs. I’m really satisfied with the Shure adapters.


Thanks for the suggestion, and I'll be sure to try it at some point, but at the moment, I'm specifically looking at TWS earbuds with ear-hooks because I'm gonna use them
for most of the day, and also for stuff like working out, so I don't need the best possible sound for that purpose, just a pair of TWS earbuds that has good enough sound(and ear-hooks).


----------



## smuh

Anybody got the OPPO Enco X2 incoming? The dynamic + planar driver combo, LDAC etc. sounds very interesting.
That being said, Huawei's FreeBuds Pro 2 may be worth a listen too...


----------



## Tommy C

BooleanBones said:


> I find them a better fit as well. I have started using them with my IE600s and likely won’t switch back to the FIIO adapter.


I use them a lot with the SE215 Special Edition. The sound quality is great for what it is yet a bit on the clinical side of things but more like studio IEMs. 
I also have the UE900 got them last year for the nostalgia as I already owned them twice 8-10 years ago and while the technology is a bit dated they are still 4 BA drivers and sound very nice. Best TWS sound for me at the moment so I‘m kind of hesitant to splurge on other TWS since the TW2 with whatever I hook up to it give me such a good sound and user experience, not sure what’s my next purchase will be.


----------



## Not so fat head

Dumbest thing ever, was not buying a third party Equalizer that works with everything....
This Boom Equalizer has let me realize how good many of the TWS/headphones/IEM's, I've set aside, actually sound..
Ten bucks well spent...


----------



## Tenlow

subguy812 said:


> I agree with your Positives, and all Neutrals(except shoutiness, don't hear that), and yes the biggest Negative can't customize the controls, if you could customize, the "right bud"  could be used to control what features you wanted.
> 
> Have you tried to create a custom sound while in Neutral mode?
> 
> ...


So far, I've only used the stock silicone ones they come with in size L. They fit perfectly so not in a hurry to tip roll but will still try the foam ones and maybe some other ones down the road. What are other EX users using with regard to tips?

And no, I haven't played around much with the neutral mode after listening to it once. Any recommendations are still welcome of course


----------



## BooleanBones

Tenlow said:


> So far, I've only used the stock silicone ones they come with in size L. They fit perfectly so not in a hurry to tip roll but will still try the foam ones and maybe some other ones down the road. What are other EX users using with regard to tips?
> 
> And no, I haven't played around much with the neutral mode after listening to it once. Any recommendations are still welcome of course


I use and like the stock large also.


----------



## jant71 (Jun 26, 2022)

erockg said:


> Enjoying the Yamaha 5B so much I just ordered the 7B off Amazon Japan for delivery next week.  Showdown!!!


Liked the TWS EPro so I bought the regular EP00 for my Waist Drum and for the E5B. Wasn't liking the TWS EPro on the Yammy but the regular is a good match.


----------



## erockg

jant71 said:


> Liked the TWS EPro so I bought the regular EP00 for my Waist drum and for the E5B. Wasn't liking the TWS EPro on the Yammy but the regular is a good match.


I have those in my tips collection too.  Good stuff.  I'm using the Azla SednaEarfit Crystal Standard tips on the E5B.  They work great.


----------



## subguy812 (Jun 26, 2022)

BooleanBones said:


> I use and like the stock large also.


This is totally out of character for me, I have always disliked Comply tips on everything. I have to use L tips or larger. I was using the L silicone tips and was fine. Not sure what possessed me but, but I bought L Comply, same type as included, and really like them. I was thinking of putting the silicone back on just to A\B.


----------



## FYLegend

Any impressions of NyPots A10? Seems like a good deal for 34$ CAD on Amazon for ANC + ambient + no stems


----------



## regancipher

For the semi-in-ear crowd, the FIIL KEY....nothing to get excited about unfortunately, another Airpod-clone dressed up in a nice case


----------



## regancipher

smuh said:


> Anybody got the OPPO Enco X2 incoming? The dynamic + planar driver combo, LDAC etc. sounds very interesting.
> That being said, Huawei's FreeBuds Pro 2 may be worth a listen too...


If I can sell a few I might go for both. Had the Elevoc Clear up for sale on Reddit for months now at a quarter of what I paid for them, not even a bite!


----------



## stacey

Shameless plug here:
https://www.head-fi.org/classifieds/astell-and-kern-uw100-tws.28209/

Just decided that I’m keeping the Beoplay EX over the UW 100.  I just find that in most situations I like the EX more than what the UW100 has to offer.


----------



## Evshrug

PixelSquish said:


> I got the new sennheisers today the MTW3. I love the AZ60 but just having bad call quality with them outdoors anywhere too often.
> 
> I haven't tested the call quality with the sennheiser's yet but the sound is definitely the best I've ever heard in a wireless IEM. The bass is beautiful and tight, the highest have a little nice twinkle in them. And a better sound stage.
> 
> Well I haven't tested a call quality yet outdoors, I'm outdoors right now. In fact I dictated this message via Google voice to text, and it's coming out perfect. When I did that with the techniques, of course it misspells that word, it was often a lot of having to delete and then re-speak. I think that automatically means the mics on the sennheisers are better


Voice pickup while on a call outdoors can be affected by many things... almost all TWS with microphones use some form of anti-noise processing, but the design of a microphone that manages to reduce wind noise as much as possible also means that less processing is needed, and it can sound more natural.

I think it's really cool that you thought to test the mic quality with voice to speech! I should try that. I know that the bluetooth microphones built into my 2013 VW Golf are absolutely AWFUL for dictation, and it shows during phone calls because literally using any other option (one of my grells, speakerphone mode on the phone, even my apple watch's mic!) sounds way better during a chat and is much better with voice to speech.


----------



## dweaver

Looks like my Linkbuds S arrive today whish is nice.

Just reread Sony's return policy and they suck... If I open the box I have to pay a twenty percent restocking fee plus the shipping cost of shipping the item and return shipping...

So guess I either have to send back without opening (not likely LOL) or I am going to be selling these if not happy.

My mistake for not paying enough attention.

Having said all that I am going to be an optimist and assume they are going to be great ...


----------



## bladefd

dweaver said:


> Looks like my Linkbuds S arrive today whish is nice.
> 
> Just reread Sony's return policy and they suck... If I open the box I have to pay a twenty percent restocking fee plus the shipping cost of shipping the item and return shipping...
> 
> ...


Manufacturers tend to do that so I don't usually order directly from the manufacturer unless if there is no other choice. Distributors tend to be more lax on the return policy. On average anyways.

I'm not a fan of restocking fees. Usually it is 15% to 25% of the product, which is nuts especially when you add in the price of return shipping. Unfortunately some products are not sold on Amazon so you have to risk restocking fees (like with Noble Audio).


----------



## dweaver (Jun 27, 2022)

I know and should have known better...

I bleeping HATE Canada Post! They say product arriving today, get my bleeping hopes up. Postpone a trip out of town for a few hours to get them, go to the Post Office box and the jackasses stick a notice that I have to go a postal outlet tomorrow after 1 to pick them up. That damn box has to be tiny and could have gone in one of the parcel boxes of not the normal mail slot! No reason posted on the slip to justify them not putting it in the box.

Such a stupid postal system!


----------



## Tommy C

dweaver said:


> I know and should have known better...
> 
> I bleeping HATE Canada Post! They say product arriving today, get my bleeping hopes up. Postpone a trip out of town for a few hours to get them, go to the Post Office box and the jackasses stick a notice that I have to go a postal outlet tomorrow after 1 to pick them up. That damn box has to be tiny and could have gone in one of the parcel boxes of not the normal mail slot! No reason posted on the slip to justify them not putting it in the box.
> 
> Such a stupid postal system!


I always had similar experience with Canada Post either not showing up or leaving me a notice despite being at home all day waiting for a darn parcel to show up.


----------



## PixelSquish (Jun 27, 2022)

The Sennheiser medium tips sealed the best but they got a little uncomfortable. I've been trying numerous of my other tips but nothing seems to seal as well.
Anyway I think the MTW3 ANC is not as good as the XM4 or the AZ 60.

It does well with steady low frequency noises but it's not like the other two which could cut out traffic noise much better, as in just car engines, not honking, like the other two do. Same on mass transit like on a train or Subway. It's respectable it's just not as good as those two. Or maybe I'm not getting a good enough seal 

One feel differently who has tried them all?

Also btw the MTW3 got a firmware update today


----------



## vladzakhar

Personally, I think, ANC works very good on MTW3. I had XM4 and AZ60 and it's about the same. What I like the most is the Anti wind future. These are the first TWS which almost completely cut the wind noise if this option is turned on. Very useful when biking.
My only wish is that Sennheiser will add multipoint in near future.


----------



## Tommy C

vladzakhar said:


> Personally, I think, ANC works very good on MTW3. I had XM4 and AZ60 and it's about the same. What I like the most is the Anti wind future. These are the first TWS which almost completely cut the wind noise if this option is turned on. Very useful when biking.
> My only wish is that Sennheiser will add multipoint in near future.


In terms of sound quality, how would you rank the MTW3, the XM4 and the AZ60? I can get either for the same discounted price locally or even the Nuratrue and just curious to hear your opinion.


----------



## erockg

Received the Yamaha TW-E7Bs today from Amazon Japan.  Yeah, these are the ones to get.  If you're willing to deal with the extra cost, get the 7B.  Similar in fit, but they seem to fit me better than the 5B.  Soft coating too whereas the 5B are plastic.  I can hear the difference with the bigger drivers right way.  Beautify clarity.  Similar wide soundstage.  ANC is okay, haven't tested much.  Definitely blocks fan noise here at the home office.  But I didn't buy them for ANC.  That's just an extra perk to me.  Case doesn't have Qi charging which is a bummer, but not a deal breaker.  The 7B have in-ear detection.  The 5B do not.  I'm really glad Yamaha upped the ante here and made some great buds.  A far cry from the first gen models.  Still missing a few things as mentioned but IMO worth the price.  Listening to some Mother Love Bone and the new Ghost and these 7B are a lot of fun.


----------



## vladzakhar

Tommy C said:


> In terms of sound quality, how would you rank the MTW3, the XM4 and the AZ60? I can get either for the same discounted price locally or even the Nuratrue and just curious to hear your opinion.


I prefer the sound of MTW3 out of three. Definitely better then XM4. And a little better then AZ60.


----------



## jant71

Well, I kinda take it back about the EPro 00 on the Yamaha E5B. Sound is quite good but sort of due to a slight leaky seal. A bit ambient nature which loses some volume so fine at home quiet but not usable like this outdoors. TWS are actually better cause the thicker part is more forward. 

That will also lead to a pet peave about something that i don't think has appeared on a true wireless but should be used quite a bit. The two position post. Here on my Elecom BT earphones, still quite good actually, which are not much different a shape than the Yamaha is but no issue. 



I can put the EPro out more on the second post. Yeah it might need a little more depth in the case where the tip area is but TWS could use this. Quite a few ears need more depth and certain tips need more depth. If not needed no harm all the way on is normal. Wish this was an idea they would think of using. just like some posts and room maybe in the lid to carry extra tips. I feel they can certainly think more physical design ideas than they do. Software features are great but we have like two that I have seen that can store a pair of tips and none that two post positions or tuning filters on the front etc.


----------



## PixelSquish (Jun 27, 2022)

vladzakhar said:


> I prefer the sound of MTW3 out of three. Definitely better then XM4. And a little better then AZ60.


This is exactly how I rate them for sound quality. The AZ60 have the worst call quality.

I don't like that the sennheisers only show you battery status in 10% increments. I'm still testing MTW3 battery life so I can't say who's the best but it's probably not them, though it seems good enough.

I also love the sennheiser's support AptX. Neither the other two do

The sennheisers have the biggest case, to the point it's slightly annoying.

The sennheiser's also have the best touch control customization which is awesome.

Also I found tips that work great with the MTW3, now the seal and isolation is really good and the ANC seems about on par with the other two. Which is fantastic


----------



## FYLegend (Jun 28, 2022)

Delete - forgot I posted it earlier


----------



## BooleanBones

Tommy C said:


> I always had similar experience with Canada Post either not showing up or leaving me a notice despite being at home all day waiting for a darn parcel to show up.


We deal with the same nonsense to your South, it's not unique to your region. Hopefully that will make you guys feel a bit better.


----------



## Tenlow (Jun 28, 2022)

I'm experiencing the battery drain on the EX case, it seems. Battery percentage seems to go down fairly quickly there.

Also, it has occurred a couple of times that when I take a single bud out of the case that this bud won't play any music right away. If I put it back in the case and take it out again, it always works.

I've just resetted them to factory settings and paired again. Newest software is installed (5.3.6) and my iPhone 13 Pro Max is also up to date on everything.

Any advice?

PS: The insertion depth with the EX is also fairly "shallow", isn't it? They're not going very far in the ear canal. It seems that I'm consistently getting the best seal that way.
PS2: Also, they're not pausing the music when you take them out of the ear, do they?


----------



## Ultrainferno

potix said:


> Hi guys, any report about 1more EVO?



In our newest review we take a close look at the 1MORE EVO. An article by @Aerosphere.
Find out how it performs, compares and why we're giving it our Recommended buy award, now on Headfonia!

https://www.headfonia.com/1more-evo-review/


----------



## regancipher

Evshrug said:


> Voice pickup while on a call outdoors can be affected by many things... almost all TWS with microphones use some form of anti-noise processing, but the design of a microphone that manages to reduce wind noise as much as possible also means that less processing is needed, and it can sound more natural.
> 
> I think it's really cool that you thought to test the mic quality with voice to speech! I should try that. I know that the bluetooth microphones built into my 2013 VW Golf are absolutely AWFUL for dictation, and it shows during phone calls because literally using any other option (one of my grells, speakerphone mode on the phone, even my apple watch's mic!) sounds way better during a chat and is much better with voice to speech.


Yes, I agree. There's more to mic performance than noise reduction. If every word is coherent and clear over and above other sounds, sometimes that's better than too much noise reduction and crackles that render the words incoherent.

Funnily enough, after really strong noise reduction from the likes of the Linkbuds and Oneplus Buds Pro, I've noticed manufacturers starting to go a little the other way and focus more on voice mic optimisation. That tends to be more hardware-based (accelerometer etc) so probably more expensive than software-based AI algorithms like Elevoc.


----------



## Matsta (Jun 28, 2022)

New here, but just got the Linkbuds S in the post.

Upgrading from Elite Active 75t's which I've been happy with for a while. Got a deal on the Linkbuds so thought it was worth a try.

What I like:
• ANC you can tell right off the bat is much better
• Way more clarity, soundstage is much better than the Jabra's
• Much more comfy in my ear, also feel a hell of a lot lighter.
• The speak to chat works really well

What I'm not liking:
The sub bass is a bit quiet even with the EQ cranked up. I wouldn't say the Jabra's aren't extremely accurate but IEM's but on first impressions, they are much more fun.
I'm really missing the sub bass slam the Jabra's give.

I'm pretty sure I can return them, but I'm gonna give them a few days and see how they go.
If i'm still not convinced, I might try and swap them for the MWT3's which seem to have the best reviews on here sound wise. I would also consider the XM4's but I don't have the biggest ears so I think there would be a good chance they would fall out and I would lose them.


----------



## ssriram2791 (Jun 28, 2022)

Who is up for NuraTrue Pro ?

https://www.kickstarter.com/project...th-personalised-sound?ref=discovery&term=Nura

8 Hours with ANC on, 32 hour battery life, Qualcomm AptX Lossless (higher than LDAC)

Bluetooth 5.3 Transmitter (supports aptx HD for any device with USB-C or USB-A) addon as well..

Edit: For those curious about iPhone, you would need a lightning to USB-C adapter and play aptXHD through your iPhone to NuraTrue Pro

Difference between NuraTrue and NuraTrue Pro is also listed here

https://help.nurasound.com/hc/en-us...difference-between-NuraTrue-Pro-and-NuraTrue-


----------



## erockg

ssriram2791 said:


> Who is up for NuraTrue Pro ?
> 
> https://www.kickstarter.com/project...th-personalised-sound?ref=discovery&term=Nura
> 
> ...


I’ve been following their lead up promotions.  Looks like they fixed all my issues with the base model, so I backed it! 🤞


----------



## Caipirina (Jun 28, 2022)

Another Amazon.de price alert: This time the Bose QC Earbuds (white only) down at 191.99€
I really enjoy mine and actually ran a half marathon with them today, they sound great, super comfy and the ANC is 'God Tier' 

The MTW3 are back up at 249€, my 210€ score shall arrive tomorrow ...

Feels like one has to check Amazon constantly now as they fluctuate prices for no apparent reason. I had the soundcore Life A2 NC in my basket for 49€ (and 37.99 refurb), now they are at 79 (&63.99) with coupons, but still not as low as before.


----------



## bladefd

ssriram2791 said:


> Who is up for NuraTrue Pro ?
> 
> https://www.kickstarter.com/project...th-personalised-sound?ref=discovery&term=Nura
> 
> ...


The only thing that turns me off is the size of it. Too big of a round :/


----------



## ssriram2791

bladefd said:


> The only thing that turns me off is the size of it. Too big of a round :/


30 day return policy is there for that (if that gives you any comfort).


----------



## Fleeple

ssriram2791 said:


> 30 day return policy is there for that (if that gives you any comfort).


Do you suppose that means 30 days after it arrives via kickstarter, or?..... 

I saw the 30 days after purchase and was kinda concerned 😅. 

Also for anyone interested, the nuratrue pro kickstarter goes until July 28th and still has earlybird prices 😊


----------



## ssriram2791

Fleeple said:


> Do you suppose that means 30 days after it arrives via kickstarter, or?.....
> 
> I saw the 30 days after purchase and was kinda concerned 😅.
> 
> Also for anyone interested, the nuratrue pro kickstarter goes until July 28th and still has earlybird prices 😊


I presume Nura ships this out directly from their facility. So, the return policy is expected to be based on when you receive the product. Not based on when they ship. From the looks of it, they seem to be extending early bird price for probably 10,000 backers LOL


----------



## stacey

I got a couple TWS IEMs from kickstarter, Bragi and crazybaby . Neither company exists now and updates to firmware were nonexistent.  
So I’m pretty cynical about a smaller company launching wares on kickstarter.


----------



## FullCircle

stacey said:


> I got a couple TWS IEMs from kickstarter, Bragi and crazybaby . Neither company exists now and updates to firmware were nonexistent.
> So I’m pretty cynical about a smaller company launching wares on kickstarter.



Ordered a laser engraver from kick starter, never received it.


----------



## ssriram2791

FullCircle said:


> Ordered a laser engraver from kick starter, never received it.


Did you get refund ? If not, did credit card company save you ?


----------



## Fleeple

stacey said:


> I got a couple TWS IEMs from kickstarter, Bragi and crazybaby . Neither company exists now and updates to firmware were nonexistent.
> So I’m pretty cynical about a smaller company launching wares on kickstarter.


To be fair though, nura has released 4 pretty well-received products (that I'm aware of).


----------



## erockg (Jun 28, 2022)

stacey said:


> I got a couple TWS IEMs from kickstarter, Bragi and crazybaby . Neither company exists now and updates to firmware were nonexistent.
> So I’m pretty cynical about a smaller company launching wares on kickstarter.


Nura is legit.  I've used/had their tech many times.  IMO, they only keep getting better.  But yes, smaller company.  Bragi was awesome, but sold their hardware to some Chinese company who did nothing with it.  Now they just license their software to companies like Skullcandy and Klipsch.  Crazybaby was awful.  Awful.  Awful.  That said, they were onto something but effed it all up.


----------



## erockg

Fleeple said:


> To be fair though, nura has released 4 pretty well-received products (that I'm aware of).


What he  said.


----------



## EMINENT

ssriram2791 said:


> Who is up for NuraTrue Pro ?
> 
> https://www.kickstarter.com/project...th-personalised-sound?ref=discovery&term=Nura
> 
> ...


Finally something interesting...


----------



## dweaver (Jun 28, 2022)

I got the Sony Linkbuds S today FINALLY!!!! LOL. I know I know such a first world mentality...

I decided to open them... Sony return policy be damned...

So I spent several minutes setting up the software and turning on features. Going to try to use these with all the features enabled.

These proved what I already knew but glad for the confirmation... My left ear hole is bigger than my right. I can use the medium tip in my right ear but need the large in my left. SO HAPPY that they have used actual hybrid tips!!!!!!! This is an instant MAJOR win in my books. One of Sony's best inventions in my opinion and a deal breaker with the XM4 for me. These are beyond comfy. I am going to love that feature by itself.

So playing with LDAC and AAC, when I enable LDAC the volume drops and becomes much more mellow sounding loosing the mids and treble detail. Anyone else experience this? I am using an S20 phone.

So far using AAC these sound exceptionally good. They are very balanced and dare I say almost bright. Comparing to all the latest Sony headphones I have owned these are by far way more balanced sounding. I can see how people who have grown used to the bigger darker sound signatures of Sony will think these are "not as good/dynamic" but this more about preference than actual technical ability. For me this is much more enjoyable.

Hopefully someone can explain if I am using LDAC wrong or confirm my finding. If I am doing it right, Sony will need to fix this.

But the LDAC issue aside I am quite happy using AAC and am not as hung up on codecs like I used to be. In my experience the codec is the least important aspect of a BT product, driver configuration and tuning are far more important.

Anyone know where to go to turn off the audible beeps when the buds switch from different modes like ANC and Ambient? Never mind I found the setting and turned off the notification.


----------



## dweaver

The Linkbuds S definitely have scaled back bass compared to the WF-1000XM3 and from all accounts the 1000XM4, these actually sound pretty close to the Samsung Buds Pro but with a Sony leaning in regards to house sound.

Sub-bass is a bit lacking with no EQ being used. Will see if this can be improved via EQ. But to be honest I don't have a ton of songs that require sub-bass while I have a ton of songs that require good mids and treble. So given a choice I would take this current signature over a darker bassy signature.


----------



## dweaver

Ok so my LDAC issue must have been a one off as they are not doing that now. Maybe had to do with them just getting updated or something.


----------



## dweaver (Jun 28, 2022)

Some quick impressions of ANC, Ambient, and adaptive features.

The ANC is excellent, as effective as anything I have owned so far. Can not compare against the 1000XM4 but these are as good as I will ever need.

The ambient mode works very well and I like the varying degree of it, as it allows me to set a location such as home with some ambience so I hear when someone is trying to talk to me but not so much that everysound is heard. I then have talk to speak feature enabled so as soon as I answer my music stops and full ambient mode kicks in.

The adaptive mode works, I was able to change the walk setting from ambient 12 to nothing and the setting took. I also switched it to ANC and that worked. I like that it can be adjusted and remembered so when its really windy I can just set to nothing when walking or running.

I have been wearing these for about 3hrs and they are so easy to forget and just enjoy the music. Will see if I can side sleep in them tonight!


----------



## clerkpalmer

erockg said:


> Received the Yamaha TW-E7Bs today from Amazon Japan.  Yeah, these are the ones to get.  If you're willing to deal with the extra cost, get the 7B.  Similar in fit, but they seem to fit me better than the 5B.  Soft coating too whereas the 5B are plastic.  I can hear the difference with the bigger drivers right way.  Beautify clarity.  Similar wide soundstage.  ANC is okay, haven't tested much.  Definitely blocks fan noise here at the home office.  But I didn't buy them for ANC.  That's just an extra perk to me.  Case doesn't have Qi charging which is a bummer, but not a deal breaker.  The 7B have in-ear detection.  The 5B do not.  I'm really glad Yamaha upped the ante here and made some great buds.  A far cry from the first gen models.  Still missing a few things as mentioned but IMO worth the price.  Listening to some Mother Love Bone and the new Ghost and these 7B are a lot of fun.


Any word on the sports model ?


----------



## clerkpalmer

Tenlow said:


> I'm experiencing the battery drain on the EX case, it seems. Battery percentage seems to go down fairly quickly there.
> 
> Also, it has occurred a couple of times that when I take a single bud out of the case that this bud won't play any music right away. If I put it back in the case and take it out again, it always works.
> 
> ...


I don’t see that anyone responded. Mine had a case battery drain issue. I returned them. I think it’s a flaw that varies in severity.


----------



## BooleanBones

clerkpalmer said:


> I don’t see that anyone responded. Mine had a case battery drain issue. I returned them. I think it’s a flaw that varies in severity.


Yep, seems to vary for sure. Mine have been solid up to this point.


----------



## erockg

clerkpalmer said:


> Any word on the sports model ?


Not that I know of.  Didn't seek that one out.  Been using my 7B non-stop though.  Really like them.  Still tip rolling...


----------



## erockg

clerkpalmer said:


> I don’t see that anyone responded. Mine had a case battery drain issue. I returned them. I think it’s a flaw that varies in severity.





BooleanBones said:


> Yep, seems to vary for sure. Mine have been solid up to this point.


Agreed.  No major issues here.  Still in love.


----------



## turbobb

Slightly OT but kinda interesting (especially those mindful of ear care):


This is NOT an audio device, though I wonder how much more space it would've taken to implement that and allow it to still be used for that purpose when not using the dehumidifying process but then there's the size...

Apparently the start-up is backed by Samsung.


----------



## FYLegend

dweaver said:


> I got the Sony Linkbuds S today FINALLY!!!! LOL. I know I know such a first world mentality...
> 
> I decided to open them... Sony return policy be damned...
> 
> ...


I recall a Taiwanese tech review channel (Afra from Tech Teller) describing this issue with LDAC as well.


----------



## FYLegend

dweaver said:


> So playing with LDAC and AAC, when I enable LDAC the volume drops and becomes much more mellow sounding loosing the mids and treble detail. Anyone else experience this? I am using an S20 phone..


Afra from Taiwanese Tech channel described this problem: 

Tested on the Galaxy Note 8, the reviewer Afra says that using LDAC on the Soundcore Liberty 3 Pros sounds bassier with more forward mids and treble to the point of being sibilant (having owned the L3P I agree with this impression!). On the other hand, she says the Sony WH-1000XM4 sounds more muddy with LDAC, so I suspect something similar is happening with the Linkbuds.


----------



## C_Lindbergh

Finally Sony released a dark mode for their headphone app!


----------



## dweaver (Jun 29, 2022)

FYLegend said:


> Afra from Taiwanese Tech channel described this problem:
> 
> Tested on the Galaxy Note 8, the reviewer Afra says that using LDAC on the Soundcore Liberty 3 Pros sounds bassier with more forward mids and treble to the point of being sibilant (having owned the L3P I agree with this impression!). On the other hand, she says the Sony WH-1000XM4 sounds more muddy with LDAC, so I suspect something similar is happening with the Linkbuds.




I do think there might be a difference, I just switched back and forth playing a song with cello playing and LDAC sounds different for sure.

They do sound very similar though, enough so I think I may end up using AAC for the added battery life.

So far I am darned impressed. The only negative was a short battery life but that's only on the first charge and I was playing around with the setting a bunch so will wait before commenting on battery life yet.

The sound signature is everything I was hoping for. It pretty much spells the end for both AZ60 and Samsung Buds Pro as it sounds as good as the Samsung and has as good ANC as the AZ60 and is more comfortable than both. But will wait a couple more days as I am in the honeymoon phase LOL.

Going to try the dual device thing over the next couple of days and see how it works. If it works as described while not quite true dual connected will work for my computer requirements.


----------



## dweaver

C_Lindbergh said:


> Finally Sony released a dark mode for their headphone app!


Where do find that setting?


----------



## RainyDog (Jun 29, 2022)

dweaver said:


> I do think there might be a difference, I just switched back and forth playing a song with cello playing and LDAC sounds different for sure.
> 
> They do sound very similar though, enough so I think I may end up using AAC for the added battery life.
> 
> ...



What you're experiencing could be what happens on the WF-1000XM4 which is a gradual EQ drop in the upper mids and treble when you push the volume beyond a certain point.

Think it was established that it kicks in from about 80% volume upwards but you can dig back through the XM4 thread here for some testing that was done.*

Also check MRS's squig.link for a comparison of the frequency response of the XM4 at normal listening level vs full volume and you can see the massive drop off after 2k!

EDIT: *Page 71 of the XM4 impressions thread.


----------



## Tenlow (Jun 29, 2022)

erockg said:


> Agreed.  No major issues here.  Still in love.


I'm facing a couple of small issues with them. As described, sometimes they won't connect or they do connect but the touch controls don't work... Placing them back in the case and taking them out again always solves it, though.

I'll keep an eye on the battery drain as well some more.

On the plus side, when they work they sound excellent and call quality also seems to be really good so far.

I'm still getting used to the relatively small touch surface. The one the MTW3 is obviously much bigger and easier to always "find", I think.


----------



## C_Lindbergh

dweaver said:


> Where do find that setting?


I just updated the app and it was enabled by default.


----------



## Artmuzz

I bought myself a pair of Sennheiser Momentum 2 true wireless buds at a clear out price of £92 at my local Currys. They are brilliant sounding buds and they compliment my B&O EQ buds. However, there is one problem. Every time I wear them with a good seal and then take them out my ears after a long walk I get this strange blocked clogged feeling in my left ear which last all day then gives me ringing in the affected ear. This is the first time I’ve had this experience  wearing IEMs.


----------



## erockg

Tenlow said:


> I'm facing a couple of small issues with them. As described, sometimes they won't connect or they do connect but the touch controls don't work... Placing them back in the case and taking them out again always solves it, though.
> 
> I'll keep an eye on the battery drain as well some more.
> 
> ...


I had an issue early on whereas I had one bud not connect when I took it out.  I trained myself to move them both with my thumb to make sure they would both wake up.  I don't seem to have that issue anymore.  Did you try a factory reset?  Reset, repair, reboot.  You know the drill.  Guessing you have.


----------



## Tenlow

erockg said:


> I had an issue early on whereas I had one bud not connect when I took it out.  I trained myself to move them both with my thumb to make sure they would both wake up.  I don't seem to have that issue anymore.  Did you try a factory reset?  Reset, repair, reboot.  You know the drill.  Guessing you have.


Yeah, I did reset them. Even deleted and installed the app again and set them up like they were new. Newest firmware, too. I will wait some more and see how it develops...


----------



## Mouseman

turbobb said:


> Slightly OT but kinda interesting (especially those mindful of ear care):
> 
> 
> This is NOT an audio device, though I wonder how much more space it would've taken to implement that and allow it to still be used for that purpose when not using the dehumidifying process but then there's the size...
> ...



I saw those on KS. No mention if they do LDAC or APT-X HD.


----------



## dweaver

C_Lindbergh said:


> I just updated the app and it was enabled by default.


Weird I just went in this morning and it switched to dark mode. Guess I just needed to give it some time


----------



## stacey

erockg said:


> Nura is legit.  I've used/had their tech many times.  IMO, they only keep getting better.  But yes, smaller company.  Bragi was awesome, but sold their hardware to some Chinese company who did nothing with it.  Now they just license their software to companies like Skullcandy and Klipsch.  Crazybaby was awful.  Awful.  Awful.  That said, they were onto something but effed it all up.



We’ll see where lossless audio goes in this format. Ultimately it’s Apple and Qualcomm that are really going to move the segment forward in this regard, almost everyone else just uses off the shelf parts to make it work. 

That said I’m pretty surprised that Bluetooth supports lossless


----------



## helmutcheese

Apple do ACC @ 256k so best of lucky in them doing it anytime soon.


----------



## erockg

stacey said:


> We’ll see where lossless audio goes in this format. Ultimately it’s Apple and Qualcomm that are really going to move the segment forward in this regard, almost everyone else just uses off the shelf parts to make it work.
> 
> That said I’m pretty surprised that Bluetooth supports lossless


Sadly, I only use my iPhone for music.  Apple ecosystem here.  Drank the Kool Aid years ago.  Codecs never really affect me.  I don't even know if my over-used ears would hear much of a difference.


----------



## dweaver (Jun 29, 2022)

OK, so a day in using the Linkbuds S and I am loving the default signature! The only TWS I own I might prefer more is the Galaxy Buds Pro but not sure. I will do some A/B testing and come back with a final verdict.

This TWS bucks Sony's trend over the past few years hearkening back to a day when Sony was more balanced in their tuning and I love it. But anyone who has only heard their latest products will think this IEM is of lower sound quality due to the change in signature.

These have set the new standard for comfort for me. They are simply perfect in this regard. But I will admit I switched to the Sony large hybrid tips versus 1 medium and one extra large. The extra large really stuffs my one ear and the medium is almost loose in the other so the large size works better. To bad they didn't add the large size to their fit kit.

Now for things I am not as happy with...

I really wish Sony would get off their @$$ and allow people to customize their controls. It's ridiculous that I only get 2 controls out of 4 on the left ear. One tweak is all it would take and they need to fix this! Not quite a deal breaker but darn close!

The battery life is right on the cusp of being to low. If you use a combination of ANC or Ambient modes your lucky to get 5hrs using AAC. Now under normal day to day use this would be probably OK but right now I am on vacation (staycation...) So am listening to music pretty extensively so find the notice my battery is getting low very sad... It also kind of defeats the idea of not needing to remove the IEM because your never going to get much more than 3-5 hours of use out of these at a time.

I have had some challenges with the headphone registers some taps and have had instances with accidental taps. So hopefully Sony can tweak the tap system.


----------



## dweaver

RainyDog said:


> What you're experiencing could be what happens on the WF-1000XM4 which is a gradual EQ drop in the upper mids and treble when you push the volume beyond a certain point.
> 
> Think it was established that it kicks in from about 80% volume upwards but you can dig back through the XM4 thread here for some testing that was done.*
> 
> ...


I am a low volume.listener rarely going over 50% volume so not sure this is what is happening in my case. But might test that out for fun .

I like that the app tells me what listening level I am using regularly that a cool feature. Hopefully I will be able to enjoy music all my life.


----------



## james444

turbobb said:


> Slightly OT but kinda interesting (especially those mindful of ear care):
> 
> 
> This is NOT an audio device, though I wonder how much more space it would've taken to implement that and allow it to still be used for that purpose when not using the dehumidifying process but then there's the size...
> ...




IMHO, a completely unnecessary device. And misleading marketing. They claim cotton swabs are dangerous and link to a site that talks about cleaning your ears with cotton swabs. Yes, trying to clean your ears and to remove earwax with cotton swabs can indeed be dangerous - but that's off-topic with regards to their device. Whereas using cotton swabs to just gently absorb moisture from one's ears is usually a harmless procedure. I do it all the time.

Moreover, those who're afraid to use cotton swabs can still use a dirt cheap hand bulb ear syringe to gently blow some air into their canals and dry them up:
https://www.amazon.com/Rubber-Suction-Syringe-Washing-Squeeze/dp/B08DFH4DWF/

Just my 2c.


----------



## Caipirina

So, I received my MTW3 today and ... so far I am not blown away or anything ... they are .. fine .. but do not shine in any department particularly better than other buds I have .. I think I prefer the sound of the AZ60, they also fit better ... can't complain about the ANC, but Bose and XM4 are just ahead .. fit is ok, those tiny wings do diddlysquat IMHO, I would not go run with them ,.. and on a 1h walk just now, out in nature with NO other signals, I had 2 tiny connection drop outs ... that's not good for a 'flag ship' device ...  
Well, I will give it a few more days ... maybe my ears are tired and I hear something very else tomorrow .. or I create that Sennheiser account and do that Sound Check and then everything changes .. who knows ...


----------



## erockg

This one goes to 11.  Moondrop S8 on the Shure TW2 Gen 2 adapters.  Always wanted to try this dish.  Delicious!


----------



## FYLegend

On the L3P, neither AAC nor LDAC are entirely clear of dropouts. AAC has a tendency to have an aliasing/stretching artifact if my hands are around the phone's Bluetooth modem. LDAC tends to last for 10 minutes or so but has more blatant cutouts. In both codecs putting my Note 9 in my right pocket (modem facing down and rear) has a tendency to induce dropouts in busy areas.  I'm not sure how it performs on other devices but it is somewhat disappointing and overall a bit below average for connectivity.



dweaver said:


> I am a low volume.listener rarely going over 50% volume so not sure this is what is happening in my case. But might test that out for fun .
> 
> I like that the app tells me what listening level I am using regularly that a cool feature. Hopefully I will be able to enjoy music all my life.


Have you tried fiddling with the sample rate and bit depth? Somebody mentioned that changing these to lower settings than 96kHz/32bit changes the tuning on the Liberty 3 Pro but when I tried this on my L3P, the audio output just went silent until they were re-connected defaulting at 96k/32.


----------



## gimmeshelter

Looking for a stem (buds don't fit) TWS with ANC about the £50 mark, they will be used casually for the gym, going for walks, light commuting etc. Not too fussed about codec as I have the FiiO UTWS5 I pair with a Shanling M3X for wireless listening around the house but was looking for something I could use whilst outdoors. I'd prefer to have a wireless charging case but finding that hard at this price point. 

The 3 on my shortlist at the moment are...... 

Soundcore Life P3 - £55
Soundpeats Air3 Pro - £41.99
Earfun Air Pro 2 - £49.99

Any suggestions / recommendations appreciated.


----------



## Ckro

You can also take a look at the 1More Comfobuds Pro. 
I have had them for a while now and can't complain.


----------



## gimmeshelter

Ckro said:


> You can also take a look at the 1More Comfobuds Pro.
> I have had them for a while now and can't complain.


was literally just reading @regancipher review of them right now. They look a good option also, although the stem looks a little long, would they fit small ears ok?


----------



## Ckro

I have rather small ears (always use S or even SS tips). No fit issue for me with the S tips provided with the Comfobuds.


----------



## Juturna

dweaver said:


> OK, so a day in using the Linkbuds S and I am loving the default signature! The only TWS I own I might prefer more is the Galaxy Buds Pro but not sure. I will do some A/B testing and come back with a final verdict.
> 
> This TWS bucks Sony's trend over the past few years hearkening back to a day when Sony was more balanced in their tuning and I love it. But anyone who has only heard their latest products will think this IEM is of lower sound quality due to the change in signature.


This made me want to try them out... Damn it. 
Especially since Galaxy Buds Pro are my favorite TWSs I've used, at least tuning-wise, and I really didn't like the XM4s, and wasn't super big on the XM3's either...


----------



## dweaver

Juturna said:


> This made me want to try them out... Damn it.
> Especially since Galaxy Buds Pro are my favorite TWSs I've used, at least tuning-wise, and I really didn't like the XM4s, and wasn't super big on the XM3's either...


OK did a back to back comparison using a couple Patricia Barber tunes and Day Dreamer by Adele and similarities between the 2 IEMs are remarkable. For Adele her voice was possibly brighter on the Sony as compared to being more husky on other Sony IEMs. The biggest difference is size of the sound stage. The Samsung have a bigger stage having more of a feeling of being open due to their venting, unfortunately this means they let in more noise though and they have a much lower noise floor. The Sony is more intimate but has a very high noise floor so when there is no sound in the music they convey this better.

I honestly can't say which I like more purely from a signature perspective. But from liking to focus solely on the music I do prefer the Linkbuds S. Btw in those tests the Samsung had ANC enabled and the Sony was turned on and the Sony was much quieter letting in less outside sound. If I disable the ANC on the Sony it becomes a bit wider sounding and in my house still has excellent isolation.

This is truly a different Sony tuning. It will be very polorizing, fans of the newer signature from the past few years will not like it and fans of Sony's older signature will be welcoming back an old friend.


----------



## Bhelpoori

FYLegend said:


> On the L3P, neither AAC nor LDAC are entirely clear of dropouts. AAC has a tendency to have an aliasing/stretching artifact if my hands are around the phone's Bluetooth modem. LDAC tends to last for 10 minutes or so but has more blatant cutouts. In both codecs putting my Note 9 in my right pocket (modem facing down and rear) has a tendency to induce dropouts in busy areas.  I'm not sure how it performs on other devices but it is somewhat disappointing and overall a bit below average for connectivity.
> 
> 
> Have you tried fiddling with the sample rate and bit depth? Somebody mentioned that changing these to lower settings than 96kHz/32bit changes the tuning on the Liberty 3 Pro but when I tried this on my L3P, the audio output just went silent until they were re-connected defaulting at 96k/32.


I have the same issue with dropouts on AAC on multiple iOS devices too on the L3P. It happens occasionally but consistently but hasn't been so bad for me to stop using them.

LDAC had more dropouts but I preferred to use dual connectivity as turning on LDAC made too little benefit.


----------



## erockg

Switched to the Fostex TM2C true wireless adapters with the 2 pin cable.  They sound incredible, fit and feel great.  Super light.  No tight wrap around like the Shure adapters.  I think the Moondrop S8 sound better with the Fostex over the Shure.  I'll have to keep listening...


----------



## vladzakhar

Unfortunately, had to return TWS3 back to BestBuy. Love everything about it, but it has the big design flow. The case magnets are too weak and I had instances with buds not being disconnected and drained the battery overnight. Unacceptable. In a meantime, I picked up the the Sennhiser CX Plus and these are not far behind the TWS3's. Magnets are super strong and the have almost the same features as the TWS3's. ANC is about the same and transparency mode is even better. Also the have side tone switch in the app that you can hear your own voice when calling. The only thing is missing is anti wind feature. I'll try to bike with them tomorrow and, hopefully, the wind would not be a problem. Sound wise they are very close. And the cost only $129 now.


----------



## Tommy C

erockg said:


> Switched to the Fostex TM2C true wireless adapters with the 2 pin cable.  They sound incredible, fit and feel great.  Super light.  No tight wrap around like the Shure adapters.  I think the Moondrop S8 sound better with the Fostex over the Shure.  I'll have to keep listening...


I’m intrigued but damn they are thicc, boy! 😎


----------



## erockg

Tommy C said:


> I’m intrigued but damn they are thicc, boy! 😎


They're not that much bigger, they're thin and very light.  Hard to explain.  They don't wrap or sit on your ear (unless you bend the arms).  They hide behind my ears better than the Shure.  We'll see how long I last


----------



## Not so fat head

Enjoying all my TWS all over again since downloading Boom EQ....
So far Bose Soundsports Free are the most surprising, in a very good way, with  most improved.  Might be the best sounding of ALL my headphones....
They had amazing soundstage before, but now full frequency spectrum too.
In heaven, and Bose, who'd think it!!!
No NC, but I'm in it for the sound here...


----------



## dweaver

I used the Linkbuds Pro in a more traditional manner today. Short bursts where I could fit time I'm for some music. I also have now had several calls with them.

Musically speaking I am as happy as I have been with any TWS products to date. The signature is damn near perfect right out of the box. They work great with ANC and with ambient modes I have tried, as well as with nothing.

For calls they are fantastic, I called my wife while driving 30 miles an hour with the window rolled down and she heard no wind noise and when a big bus rumbled by she could not hear it. My mom also commented on clear they sounded while I walked around on the streets it semi windy conditions.

The gadgetry works for the most part and I really like speak to chat even though it occasionally picks up coughs, grunts etc and kicks in. But for talking with my wife it works well at home. I like that it stops the music versus just dimming it.

Between the near perfect signature for me, the comfort and ability to use them in more situations these are starting to feel like the end of the line for me for a while.

I hope like hell that Sony does not release an update that ruins the sound and that they make a XM2 version that just incorporates things like wireless charging and more battery life while maintaining the same signature.


----------



## J_3000

Ok so. Im still waiting for delivery date for the EX I bought from Amazon.de (discounted to 350€). I returned my MTW3 before my return period closed. The MTW3 were ok, but I would describe them as balanced and good, but not exciting. I would have wanted to do a/b testing between them and the EX, but it is what it is.

But, while browsing in Amazon.de a week or so back, I found the SoundPeats H1 with several discounts and coupons for 19 € 🤯 I have to say, that for that price these are insane good. Probably even for 50 € or something still a steal.


----------



## Caipirina

Juturna said:


> This made me want to try them out... Damn it.
> Especially since Galaxy Buds Pro are my favorite TWSs I've used, at least tuning-wise, and I really didn't like the XM4s, and wasn't super big on the XM3's either...


same same  and received like 20h after ordering ... finally jumped gun and got prime .. at least for the next month


----------



## dasadab

erockg said:


> Switched to the Fostex TM2C true wireless adapters with the 2 pin cable.  They sound incredible, fit and feel great.  Super light.  No tight wrap around like the Shure adapters.  I think the Moondrop S8 sound better with the Fostex over the Shure.  I'll have to keep listening...


I see that Amazon now has them, but without the 2 pin cable.  Tempting...


----------



## jant71 (Jul 1, 2022)

At a bit over $100 we have a new Radius TWS. The HP-R300BT..







BT5.2 SBC/AAC/LDAC 12.5 hours AAC and 8 hours LDAC. Ambient and ENC for calls. Dolby Atmos, 360 Reality Audio. 8.8mm "Synchro Motion" dual driver...






Of course comes with the traditional Radius Deep Mount tips...


----------



## Caipirina

Flaming the linkbuds S hype flames ... (Linkbuds PRO @dweaver ?)
Got mine and after the luke warm feels I got from the MTW3 2 nights ago, I am now floored by the LBS (? will that acronym stick? Maybe LiB S?)
The ANC is fantastic, the sound is as dynamic as I like it .. and I just re-read the features again, checking in the is Qi (nope, but no biggy), but do I read this correctly, they have LDAC ??? I was not aware .. need to test with my Tempotec V1 
Might be 'new toy' syndrome, but I did not get those feels when I tried the Sennheiser, sorry, they are going back 

Here's a question: The tip labeling confused me ... we have SS, S, then LL and apparently M is on? What happened to regular L?


----------



## Caipirina (Jul 1, 2022)

J_3000 said:


> Ok so. Im still waiting for delivery date for the EX I bought from Amazon.de (discounted to 350€). I returned my MTW3 before my return period closed. The MTW3 were ok, but I would describe them as balanced and good, but not exciting. I would have wanted to do a/b testing between them and the EX, but it is what it is.
> 
> But, while browsing in Amazon.de a week or so back, I found the SoundPeats H1 with several discounts and coupons for 19 € 🤯 I have to say, that for that price these are insane good. Probably even for 50 € or something still a steal.


the H1 at 19€ makes me wonder if I should get a second pair  they are crazy good!
I see them now at 82.99 and 85.99 ... they really make you browse that category everyday as they play it fast and loose with the prices
SOny Linkbuds S, usually 199, were 194 last night and 191 today ... hmmm


----------



## dweaver (Jul 1, 2022)

Caipirina said:


> same same  and received like 20h after ordering ... finally jumped gun and got prime .. at least for the next month


How are you liking them?

Btw I am an Android (Samsung S20) user and I have been only using AAC as I found I prefer them using AAC and think they get better battery life than using LDAC.

Just came from a 5K jog and 4K walk. I am trying to train it to know what I want so as it switched to Ambient mode when I would run I would dutifully pull out my phone and tap on "Off" so it would learn I prefer no ambient when running. It took several times of doing this but it did seem to eventually learn I prefer no ambient when running. With ambient on I could hear to much wind and my own breathing for my liking. The other way is likely safer but just ruins the jog.

The learning does seem legit. 

I wrote a review on the Sony site and this was a response from Sony.

Hi Dweaver,

Thank you for taking the time to review the LinkBuds S.

Adaptive Sound Control is a smart function that senses where you are and what you’re doing, then adjusts ambient sound settings for the ideal listening experience. Over time, it learns your behaviour and recognizes locations that you frequently visit, such as your workplace or a favourite café, and tailors sound to suit the situation.

With LinkBuds S, you’re always connected to your everyday worlds. Ultra-small and light, they can be worn comfortably around the clock, keeping you in touch with people and places. LinkBuds S switches automatically to optimized ambient sound or high-quality noise cancelling for listening without distractions.

For low latency and high sound quality, even around other interference, the Bluetooth® signal is transmitted to both ears at the same time. Thanks to the powerful Integrated Processor V1, you’ll enjoy stable, skip-free, wireless sound.

These earbuds give you the best of both worlds—natural ambient sound when you want to interact with your world, high-quality noise cancelling when you need to focus. LinkBuds S automatically switches between Ambient Sound Mode and noise cancelling depending on where you are and what you’re doing.

Thanks for choosing Sony!

Edit: just saw your questions. I actually critiqued the lack of Large or are the Medium-Large??? The light blue core tip anyway. I also praised the hell out of them for using real hybrid tips as well as the signature of the IEM. It's so good to have them swing back to a more balanced signature.

My only major gripe is the stupid lack of ability to have all controls. I strongly suggested they need to catch up with the rest of the world in this regard.

I also wish they had more battery life but if that trade off allows for such a comfortable fit I will accept it... Truth is I rarely have time to listen for more than a couple of hours at a stretch so this works out, if just barely.


----------



## erockg

dasadab said:


> I see that Amazon now has them, but without the 2 pin cable.  Tempting...


Base setup only comes with MMCX.  I had to buy the 2 pic short cable separately -- from Amazon: B08B4ZP1WD


----------



## dweaver (Jul 1, 2022)

Hmmmm, rereading Sony's response to my review where I critisized the lack of controls I think they are suggesting that if I use adaptive sound this might negate me having to have the controls built in to the buds as they will automatically pick the best option automatically. Will try and use that function to see if that works.

The only issue with that argument is I like the tap hold option for instant awareness which is good when on the train and you want to hear the announcer. But when I turned on volume control I lost that ability. So I still think they need to work on customizing the controls. So easy just allow 2 tap to increase volume and 3 tap to decrease it, or vice versa...

Edit:

Ahhhhh, I see what they did. So stupid and greedy...

They have relegated the 2 tap and 3 tap for Endel and Spotify only.

OK, Sony this is super easy to fix, a a 3rd option for those clicks for volume up and down. The app and buds obviously can recognize those clicks and then you allow the customer the choice between assigning them for paid services or to control their volume. 

I imagine you get paid for having those buttons options set to use those services. But adding a 3rd non paid option should not negate that and if it does you need to value your customers convenience over corporate greed...


----------



## dweaver

Caipirina said:


> Flaming the linkbuds S hype flames ... (Linkbuds PRO @dweaver ?)
> Got mine and after the luke warm feels I got from the MTW3 2 nights ago, I am now floored by the LBS (? will that acronym stick? Maybe LiB S?)
> The ANC is fantastic, the sound is as dynamic as I like it .. and I just re-read the features again, checking in the is Qi (nope, but no biggy), but do I read this correctly, they have LDAC ??? I was not aware .. need to test with my Tempotec V1
> Might be 'new toy' syndrome, but I did not get those feels when I tried the Sennheiser, sorry, they are going back
> ...


LOL I like that change in name and the various acronyms . 

I know what Sony wants in regards to where these fit in their lineup but the reality is the XM4 deserves a XBass moniker and these deserve a Pro moniker . Except that is very pretentious of us .

Just hope the signature was on purpose and not simply a necessity of the driver. I was getting so discouraged  with Sony products until I got these.


----------



## Not so fat head

This is an excellent board, man there's a lot of information here.....
Keep it up everyone ...  👍


----------



## Tenlow (Jul 1, 2022)

A couple days in with the B&O EX and I still very much like them. They sound really great, have a good, stable and comfortable fit, call quality is also great as is build quality. It seems that resetting them again has suddenly fixed the connection problems I sometimes had with them when taking the buds out of the case. Haven't experienced it anymore after that. Multipoint works good with my iPhone and my MacBook Pro but sometimes seems to switch a bit aggressively/early. Still a big fan of the three years warranty. Touch controls work well but it would be so much better if we had the chance to customize them.

So lots to like.

However, ANC still is mediocre, as is the transparency mode. That's pretty much set in stone by now. Maybe future firmware updates will improve things a bit who knows. Battery life is ok to good, I've seen better and worse. Still feels like the case's battery discharges quicker than it should, though. Someone on reddit said B&O is "aware of the issue" and "about to fix it in a future firmware update" Let's see. The app, as previously stated, is also just ok but not too bad.

So, definitely quite a bit of room for improvement. I also think that while the general connection stability is very good, bluetooth range is pretty average. I always test that by putting my iPhone on the very same spot in the hallway and leave the flat with the buds in and see when they drop out and the EX drop out relatively early in comparison. Not a real issue in everyday life, though. I'm positive that will only get better from here on as B&O likely will take care of them and release more future updates down the road.

In direct comparison to my beloved MTW3, I would still say that the Sennheiser are the better bang for the buck as they have better ANC, a better transparency mode, comparable to maybe even slightly better battery life, are (subjectively) not much worse in sound, have fully customizable touch controls (!) and a normally working auto pause system while still they also offer good build and call quality. They are (atm) still lacking multipoint bluetooth, though. All that for way less money.

The EX sound slightly better imo and their call quality is also a bit better. They are a keeper for now next to the MTW3. All that said, I do think they are definitely overpriced by 50 to 100€. For 299, I would totally recommend them but for almost 400, they have a couple of shortcomings too many. Sound and call quality are amongst the best I've heard so far, though.


----------



## feverfive

Tenlow said:


> A couple days in with the B&O EX and I still very much like them. They sound really great, have a good, stable and comfortable fit, call quality is also great as is build quality. It seems that resetting them again has suddenly fixed the connection problems I sometimes had with them when taking the buds out of the case. Haven't experienced it anymore after that. Multipoint works good with my iPhone and my MacBook Pro but sometimes seems to switch a bit aggressively/early. Still a big fan of the three years warranty. Touch controls work well but it would be so much better if we had the chance to customize them.
> 
> So lots to like.
> 
> ...


Thanks for this, it is very helpful... I am likewise in the Apple walled garden, and am still doing some homework before I buy my first TWS.  My use case will be strictly for use with my M1Pro Macbook Pro (video conference calls, Youtube, Netflix, etc.).  I'd pretty much never use with my iPhone.  Sound quality and no fuss day-to-day use is important to me.  The EX would be at the tippy top of my budget, but they remain on my radar, though I likely won't buy anything until Apple releases the Airpods Pro 2 (should be in a few months, I presume).


----------



## dweaver (Jul 1, 2022)

feverfive said:


> Thanks for this, it is very helpful... I am likewise in the Apple walled garden, and am still doing some homework before I buy my first TWS.  My use case will be strictly for use with my M1Pro Macbook Pro (video conference calls, Youtube, Netflix, etc.).  I'd pretty much never use with my iPhone.  Sound quality and no fuss day-to-day use is important to me.  The EX would be at the tippy top of my budget, but they remain on my radar, though I likely won't buy anything until Apple releases the Airpods Pro 2 (should be in a few months, I presume).


I am using the Sony Linkbuds S on an Android device but have settled on AAC because it sounds better than LDAC on my phone, so give them serious consideration. They sound darn good to my ears and they are great for phone calls so far. I have not bothered buying the WF-1000XM4 but did own the WF-1000XM3 and the Linkbuds S sound much better than that model and from all I have read the XM4 will be even bassier and darker sounding than the XM3 so if you prefer a more balanced sound the Linkbuds S should be just about right.


----------



## Fleeple

Tenlow said:


> A couple days in with the B&O EX and I still very much like them. They sound really great, have a good, stable and comfortable fit, call quality is also great as is build quality. It seems that resetting them again has suddenly fixed the connection problems I sometimes had with them when taking the buds out of the case. Haven't experienced it anymore after that. Multipoint works good with my iPhone and my MacBook Pro but sometimes seems to switch a bit aggressively/early. Still a big fan of the three years warranty. Touch controls work well but it would be so much better if we had the chance to customize them.
> 
> So lots to like.
> 
> ...


Hello! Just got my own mtw3, and had a quick question; is it at all possible to use ambient mode with a single earbud? I tend to drive with these, and it kinda throws me off-balance when one ear has that plugged feeling. Thanks for any help you can provide 😊


----------



## Tenlow

Fleeple said:


> Hello! Just got my own mtw3, and had a quick question; is it at all possible to use ambient mode with a single earbud? I tend to drive with these, and it kinda throws me off-balance when one ear has that plugged feeling. Thanks for any help you can provide 😊


Unfortunately, not as of right now, no. I would like to have that feature as well.


----------



## Fleeple

Tenlow said:


> Unfortunately, not as of right now, no. I would like to have that feature as well.


Drat :/ I'll keep it for now but that would be a dealbreaker personally......


----------



## Tenlow

Fleeple said:


> Drat :/ I'll keep it for now but that would be a dealbreaker personally......


Yes. Even my cheap Nothing Ear 1 can do that. The EX, however, cannot do that either...So it's not just the MTW3...


----------



## Fleeple

Tenlow said:


> Yes. Even my cheap Nothing Ear 1 can do that. The EX, however, cannot do that either...So it's not just the MTW3...


.......that knocks that one out. I guess I hope for the pixel buds pro to save me 😅 the linkbuds s were close but they kept dropping calls for me for some reason.


----------



## dweaver

Fleeple said:


> .......that knocks that one out. I guess I hope for the pixel buds pro to save me 😅 the linkbuds s were close but they kept dropping calls for me for some reason.


Forgot about that potential on the Linkbuds S will report if I have that issue.


----------



## Fleeple

dweaver said:


> Forgot about that potential on the Linkbuds S will report if I have that issue.


If it helps, I have a pixel 6 pro 😊 I hope it doesn't for you, it was a great little earbud otherwise (although it didn't stay in as well as the mtw3 does when masks are involved).


----------



## mafyou12

what is the, er, link between the Linkbuds S and the "original" Linkbuds? When I saw they were doing an IEM under that name, I figured it must have some kind of hole in the design to let more sound through than your average TWS... but it's just another TWS IEM with an ambient mic mode?


----------



## Fleeple

mafyou12 said:


> what is the, er, link between the Linkbuds S and the "original" Linkbuds? When I saw they were doing an IEM under that name, I figured it must have some kind of hole in the design to let more sound through than your average TWS... but it's just another TWS IEM with an ambient mic mode?


I think they're both meant to be earbuds you can use in daily life? They both have excellent ambient one way or another.....


----------



## mafyou12

Fleeple said:


> I think they're both meant to be earbuds you can use in daily life? They both have excellent ambient one way or another.....


Isn't it closer in execution to the XM4 than the Linkbuds?

Maybe "Linkbuds" is their TWS branding going forward, instead of some random string of letters and numbers.


----------



## Fleeple

mafyou12 said:


> Isn't it closer in execution to the XM4 than the Linkbuds?
> 
> Maybe "Linkbuds" is their TWS branding going forward, instead of some random string of letters and numbers.


Unless they rebrand their cheaper models as well I kinda doubt it, but I suppose we shall see 😊


----------



## gimmeshelter

Does anyone have any experience with redmi buds?

I see the redmi buds pro 4 are out and have good features for £50. 

Unsure of the redmi sound signature / quality though.


----------



## Tenlow

Beoplay EX diary, part whatever...

I've just spent 2 hours walking outside with the EX in hot summer weather. It was windy nonetheless, so perfect weather to test the call quality. The quality was great, both I could clearly understand my counterpart and vice versa it was the same thing. The EX are probably the best TWS besides Airpods perhaps, which I have tested so far in that regard.

ANC was still just okay, but the music was loud enough to block out everything else anyway. I also used the transparency mode to have a longer conversation outside and it worked surprisingly well, especially since I thought (and still think) that the mode is rather weak and might maybe need a bit more amplification. It worked really neatly, though.

The sound quality was absolutely excellent and the volume is more than adequate as well. I never went higher than 75% and that was almost uncomfortably loud then. Absolutely nothing to complain with regard to volume.

The EX were comfortable and stable in the ear all the time. I had one short connection dropout in the right ear, otherwise the connection was stable all the time. Due to the hot weather I also sweated a bit, so it's really good to have that IP57 certification 

Impact noise while walking was not a problem and wind noise was also not noticeable or annoying in ANC mode (adaptive).

Despite the many small criticisms I've mentioned about the EX so far, it was a very nice experience today! The sound in particular really was a blast.


----------



## subguy812 (Jul 2, 2022)

Tenlow said:


> Beoplay EX diary, part whatever...
> 
> I've just spent 2 hours walking outside with the EX in hot summer weather. It was windy nonetheless, so perfect weather to test the call quality. The quality was great, both I could clearly understand my counterpart and vice versa it was the same thing. The EX are probably the best TWS besides Airpods perhaps, which I have tested so far in that regard.
> 
> ...


It is the best TW I have heard from a sound quality standpoint, obviously subjective. Call quality is excellent, everyone always says I am crystal clear. The EX has it's niggles, yes even at its price point. I have not had a TW that didn't have its annoyances. The ANC is okay, but between ANC and music it blocks well! Biggest downside, price tag.


----------



## Tenlow

subguy812 said:


> It is the best TW I have heard from a sound quality standpoint, obviously subjective. Call quality is excellent, everyone always says I am crystal clear. The EX has it's niggles, yes even at its price point. I have not had a TW that didn't have its annoyances. The ANC is okay, but between ANC and music it blocks well! Biggest downside, price tag.


Seems like, yeah. 

They seem to have more audio leakage, though, at least according to the wife. She says that she cannot hear my music when I listen with the MTW3 and said the EX (admittedly with fairly loud music) sounded like "party mode" next to her. Cannot verify of course but I was surprised by that.


----------



## subguy812

Tenlow said:


> Seems like, yeah.
> 
> They seem to have more audio leakage, though, at least according to the wife. She says that she cannot hear my music when I listen with the MTW3 and said the EX (admittedly with fairly loud music) sounded like "party mode" next to her. Cannot verify of course but I was surprised by that.


The same happened in bed with my wife. Using Comply, no, silicone, yes.


----------



## Tenlow

subguy812 said:


> The same happened in bed with my wife. Using Comply, no, silicone, yes.


It was with silicone tips here. Haven't used comply much yet as I had to order size L and they haven't arrived yet  

Do you use them more with silicone or with foam tips?


----------



## subguy812

Tenlow said:


> It was with silicone tips here. Haven't used comply much yet as I had to order size L and they haven't arrived yet
> 
> Do you use them more with silicone or with foam tips?


I have never liked Comply, but this is the first. I A/B'ed and I like both almost equally, there may be a touch more fullness to the sound with Comply. I say my wife said no with Comply, but it is the fact she has only mentioned it with silicone, I have never asked her with Comply. Since receiving the L Comply tips, I would say my use is 50/50. You will need to force them down in the charger deeper. I like both.


----------



## Juturna

Has anybody tried both the 1more Evos and the Linkbuds S? Would love some comparisons, especially for sound.


----------



## erockg (Jul 4, 2022)

Tenlow said:


> Beoplay EX diary, part whatever...
> 
> I've just spent 2 hours walking outside with the EX in hot summer weather. It was windy nonetheless, so perfect weather to test the call quality. The quality was great, both I could clearly understand my counterpart and vice versa it was the same thing. The EX are probably the best TWS besides Airpods perhaps, which I have tested so far in that regard.
> 
> ...


Agreed here.  ANC and Transparency mode are not very good compared to the EX or many others, but that sound... They nailed it.  Comfort too.  These are in front of me on my desk 24/7!


----------



## Not so fat head

I'll restate that with the Boom EQ I downloaded, My TWS can sound pretty much how I want. It can do 8 or 16 band adjustment, and then save, for example, as BOSE rock, PI7 classical, TWM2 rock ..etc..
You also can launch your music directly from the app.
$10 for a yearly subscription....
Lol I'm not affiliated with them at all, just want to share some info..
Well worth it me thinks..  👍


----------



## dweaver

Is this Boom EQ for Android or IOS? I am an Android guy and can't seem to find it?


----------



## Not so fat head

I'm IOS and downloaded it from Apple's App Store..
Would seem strange if it's not for Android too..


----------



## B7RS4

Has anyone tried the jvc/victor/kenwood nearphones(ha-np35t-b) yet? Looks like another alternative to bone conduction or sony linkbuds. The price point (10000 JPY) and amazon reviews seem to be pretty good.

link


----------



## maor26 (Jul 3, 2022)

erockg said:


> Agreed here.  ANC and Transparency mode are not very good compared to the EX or many others, but that sound... They nailed it.  Comfort too.  These are on in front of me on my desk 24/7!


Which tips are you using with the EX?


----------



## erockg

maor26 said:


> Which tips are you using with the EX?


After tip rolling for a while, I went back to the large stock tips.  Works great for me.


----------



## Tenlow

erockg said:


> After tip rolling for a while, I went back to the large stock tips.  Works great for me.


Yeah, me too. 

Although the stock Sennheiser (size L) MTW1 and 2 silicone ones are pretty much identical in size and dimensions and work equally well for me. No difference in sound, too.


----------



## howdy

dweaver said:


> I am using the Sony Linkbuds S on an Android device but have settled on AAC because it sounds better than LDAC on my phone, so give them serious consideration. They sound darn good to my ears and they are great for phone calls so far. I have not bothered buying the WF-1000XM4 but did own the WF-1000XM3 and the Linkbuds S sound much better than that model and from all I have read the XM4 will be even bassier and darker sounding than the XM3 so if you prefer a more balanced sound the Linkbuds S should be just about right.



Did you make sure it reads LDAC in developer options. I've heard that people thought it was on LDAC until they saw it was not developer options. 
I to have the Note 20 ultra and my XM4s show LDAC in both areas.


----------



## Juturna

What d'yall reckon the new Moondrop Alice's will be like? Apparently a Kato-like sound but in TWS form I believe they mentioned. 




Not loving the shape of the buds or the case but otherwise...


----------



## dweaver

howdy said:


> Did you make sure it reads LDAC in developer options. I've heard that people thought it was on LDAC until they saw it was not developer options.
> I to have the Note 20 ultra and my XM4s show LDAC in both areas.


I did double check and it was in LDAC in both. But while there I switched it from 32 bit to 24 bit and that seemed to help a bit. It still sounds softer than the AAC but is more similar. Will try it for a while and see how it impacts the battery life. If it kills the battery the difference is so subtle I think I will settle on AAC.

Tomorrow I go back to work. So I will see if I can set it up to do the Sony version on 2 devices and see if it works. The guys that do the DHRME videos suggest that this mode actually works really well and very reliable. So will see if they are correct and if so will have a good work/music solution.

Still loving the IEM, I will likely be selling my Samsung and Technics TWS as these just check all the boxes for my needs including audio enjoyment. The only th ok Ng they lack is a bit of width in sound stage and 3D ability. But they are only just behind the GBuds Pro for sound stage and I have yet to find ANY TWS that can do a decent 3D experience so I am OK with what I get.

I will be keeping my Fiio combo for higher end audio anyway and they sound amazing for soundstage and 3D presentation so I am covered.


----------



## DigDub

Juturna said:


> Has anybody tried both the 1more Evos and the Linkbuds S? Would love some comparisons, especially for sound.


Have both. Evo is Harman curve, lifted treble and bass. While Linkbuds are more balanced and a bit warm. Linkbuds is more comfortable than Evo.


----------



## Juturna

DigDub said:


> Have both. Evo is Harman curve, lifted treble and bass. While Linkbuds are more balanced and a bit warm. Linkbuds is more comfortable than Evo.


Thank you. I feel like it's difficult for me to guess what they sound like anyway, because to me the Harman Curve is kinda what I would call "balanced" and usually quite warm even though I do agree that there is a slight V or W-shape to the frequency curve to it. 
Currently have the Galaxy Buds Pro that are also Harman Target-ish and I love their sound signature. 
If I put it like this, which ones do you think sound better when you've EQ'd them to your heart's content? 

Also, I'm a bit torn on whether I should wait to buy something now or not, Amazon Prime Day is coming up in less than two weeks, the first Prime Day in my country overall since Amazon first established themselves here, so I don't know if any good stuff is usually on sale or if it's going to be the SoundPeats and other even smaller brand-earbuds for $20 instead of like... $30, lol.


----------



## Juturna

dweaver said:


> I did double check and it was in LDAC in both. But while there I switched it from 32 bit to 24 bit and that seemed to help a bit. It still sounds softer than the AAC but is more similar. Will try it for a while and see how it impacts the battery life. If it kills the battery the difference is so subtle I think I will settle on AAC.
> 
> Tomorrow I go back to work. So I will see if I can set it up to do the Sony version on 2 devices and see if it works. The guys that do the DHRME videos suggest that this mode actually works really well and very reliable. So will see if they are correct and if so will have a good work/music solution.
> 
> ...


I've been listening to my GBuds Pro with ANC on like exclusively, but I just realized how much wider the soundstage gets with it off (and the sound itself feels a lot cleaner too even if the midbass sometimes drops slightly too much), it really made me love the GBuds even more. Just kinda wish the ANC was actually better though, there are times when I think I've actually triggered transparency on them only to realize that... nope, that's still ANC on, lol.


----------



## jmwant

Juturna said:


> What d'yall reckon the new Moondrop Alice's will be like? Apparently a Kato-like sound but in TWS form I believe they mentioned.
> 
> Not loving the shape of the buds or the case but otherwise...


That's interesting. Hope there'll be a black variant too.


----------



## Elvis Costello

I just got the Linkbuds S today.
My first impressions are that they are pretty nice. They sound good, are comfortable and disappear when you put them on.
I was previously using Samsung Buds as my wireless earphones but was never completely happy with them because their fit and ANC were ass and they got uncomfortable after a while.
These appear to be better in those regards.

I am just using AAC because I don't think the difference between AAC and LDAC is worth sacrificing battery life for.


----------



## C_Lindbergh

Elvis Costello said:


> I am just using AAC because I don't think the difference between AAC and LDAC is worth sacrificing battery life for.



I also have way better connection with AAC compared to LDAC (pixel 5)! 

Other than that I'm a pretty big fan of the Linkbud S, but they have a major grip....no touch control customization! Almost a deal breaker, but the S are so good in every other way so it would be hard to depart with them.


----------



## dweaver

Elvis Costello said:


> I just got the Linkbuds S today.
> My first impressions are that they are pretty nice. They sound good, are comfortable and disappear when you put them on.
> I was previously using Samsung Buds as my wireless earphones but was never completely happy with them because their fit and ANC were ass and they got uncomfortable after a while.
> These appear to be better in those regards.
> ...





C_Lindbergh said:


> I also have way better connection with AAC compared to LDAC (pixel 5)!
> 
> Other than that I'm a pretty big fan of the Linkbud S, but they have a major grip....no touch control customization! Almost a deal breaker, but the S are so good in every other way so it would be hard to depart with them.


I agree with both of you on the AAC versus LDAC, I still find LDAC a smidge softer sounding which is weird but its not leaps better than AAC and AAC is a lot better for battery and connectivity, and doesn't require me messing around in developer mode to ensure it is working optimally. 

Well, unfortunately the article I read regarding the Sony app and multi-device doesn't appear to be accurate as far as I can tell, so no ability to have this work with my computer and phone through the app which sucks. I was hoping...

Have to agree the lack of ability to have all controls is a major downer and sooooooooo stupid on Sony's part. I hope like hell they start to listen to their customers, it should be no big thing to allow double and triple tap be used for volume up and down... But like you @C_Lindbergh they are so good in all other areas I will live with the limitation.


----------



## Elvis Costello

C_Lindbergh said:


> I also have way better connection with AAC compared to LDAC (pixel 5)!
> 
> Other than that I'm a pretty big fan of the Linkbud S, but they have a major grip....no touch control customization! Almost a deal breaker, but the S are so good in every other way so it would be hard to depart with them.


I have accidentally activated the various touch controls a few times which has been mildly annoying.
However, the sound is fantastic. These are the best sounding true wireless earphones that I have tried. The case is nice too.
I was kind of torn between these and the XM4 but have heard that the XM4 are uncomfortable. I am glad I chose the Linkbuds S.


----------



## dweaver (Jul 4, 2022)

Juturna said:


> I've been listening to my GBuds Pro with ANC on like exclusively, but I just realized how much wider the soundstage gets with it off (and the sound itself feels a lot cleaner too even if the midbass sometimes drops slightly too much), it really made me love the GBuds even more. Just kinda wish the ANC was actually better though, there are times when I think I've actually triggered transparency on them only to realize that... nope, that's still ANC on, lol.





Elvis Costello said:


> I have accidentally activated the various touch controls a few times which has been mildly annoying.
> However, the sound is fantastic. These are the best sounding true wireless earphones that I have tried. The case is nice too.
> I was kind of torn between these and the XM4 but have heard that the XM4 are uncomfortable. I am glad I chose the Linkbuds S.


I hear you regarding the Gbuds Pro in every aspect @Juturna! They do sound great and have a good wide sound stage, but the ANC is just too weak. The Linksbuds S will cost you some of that sound stage, but the similarity in signature is close in the areas that mattered for me (nice treble detail, midrange sounding clear and articulate) they are slightly warm in the lower midrange giving male vocals and certain instruments a bit more gravity but not by much and I actually found female vocals were a bit brighter and clearer than the GBuds Pro. Edit: I do think the Linkbuds S have a bit better bass presence as well just a bit more authority especially in the mid-bass, but are not over cooked like some of the other products I own such as the AZ60 which is a bit to heavy for my tastes. The only area I wish they had a smidge more would be sub-bass but it is not off by much, so for the few songs I listen to that benefit from sub-bass are good versus being great and I can live with that trade off.

@Elvis Costello I agree with you, these are the best sounding TWS I have also tried, while they have aspects that are bettered by other TWS, their overall sound comes out as the winner in the end. But like you I have the sensors accidentally get triggered and more frustratingly sometime are hard to hit for me. But nothing that bugs me enough to not want to use them and not much different than some others I own as most touch controls tend to be a bit finicky.

I am trying hard to use the adaptive sound and teach the buds what I like, in doing so I found out if I use the ambient/awareness controls on the bud this seems to help in that teaching, So for now I have switched to that control scheme versus volume controls. I am starting to appreciate the adaptive sound as it improves in determining what I want. It does require initial effort though but I am hoping it will be worth the effort in the long run.


----------



## Elvis Costello

dweaver said:


> @Elvis Costello I agree with you, these are the best sounding TWS I have also tried, while they have aspects that are bettered by other TWS, their overall sound comes out as the winner in the end. But like you I have the sensors accidentally get triggered and more frustratingly sometime are hard to hit for me. But nothing that bugs me enough to not want to use them and not much different than some others I own as most touch controls tend to be a bit finicky.


I actually cannot believe how good they are. 
I bought them to use when I am out and about or just chilling in the house. I have been listening to them since I got them and am enjoying their sound a great deal more than I ever expected. Everything I have put on has sounded good through them.


----------



## dweaver

Elvis Costello said:


> I actually cannot believe how good they are.
> I bought them to use when I am out and about or just chilling in the house. I have been listening to them since I got them and am enjoying their sound a great deal more than I ever expected. Everything I have put on has sounded good through them.



LOL, I hear you!. I bought mine thinking I could return them and then realized if I opened them I would incur a big penalty. So was nervous because I wasn't sure Sony would make something I liked. I obviously opened them and have been ecstatic with their sound primarily, followed by their comfort. They just sound right for almost everything I listen to, from Jazz, classical, rock of all types, folk, Celtic, pretty much everything. About the only thing that is not quite where I want is sound tracks by Hans Zimmer that have occasional sub-bass as part of the experience. Those tracks come across with OK sub-bass but not as much as other TWS I own. But that is a very small sample of music compared to everything else and the TWS I own that do those tracks justice then suffer in other areas of the audio spectrum affecting a much larger section of my music.


----------



## Elvis Costello

dweaver said:


> LOL, I hear you!. I bought mine thinking I could return them and then realized if I opened them I would incur a big penalty. So was nervous because I wasn't sure Sony would make something I liked. I obviously opened them and have been ecstatic with their sound primarily, followed by their comfort. They just sound right for almost everything I listen to, from Jazz, classical, rock of all types, folk, Celtic, pretty much everything. About the only thing that is not quite where I want is sound tracks by Hans Zimmer that have occasional sub-bass as part of the experience. Those tracks come across with OK sub-bass but not as much as other TWS I own. But that is a very small sample of music compared to everything else and the TWS I own that do those tracks justice then suffer in other areas of the audio spectrum affecting a much larger section of my music.


I mostly listen to all different kinds of rock and these sound absolutely great for that. 
I got these for the convenience of having some wireless earbuds and hoped that they would actually fit me (unlike the Buds Pro, which I struggled to get a consistent and good fit with). They sound so good that I am finding that I actually want to listen to music with these. I grabbed them over my other earphones.
I have read the sound being described as being "too polite" and not lively and aggressive enough. They sound perfect to me though, so maybe that's the kind of sound I like.


----------



## dweaver (Jul 5, 2022)

Elvis Costello said:


> I mostly listen to all different kinds of rock and these sound absolutely great for that.
> I got these for the convenience of having some wireless earbuds and hoped that they would actually fit me (unlike the Buds Pro, which I struggled to get a consistent and good fit with). They sound so good that I am finding that I actually want to listen to music with these. I grabbed them over my other earphones.
> I have read the sound being described as being "too polite" and not lively and aggressive enough. They sound perfect to me though, so maybe that's the kind of sound I like.


I was able to get an OK fit for with the GBuds Pro using other tips but it was never a great fit. The Linkbuds S are a great fit being as comfortable or better and more secure at the same time.

I personally prefer a signature that is effortless versus aggressive which may explain why I enjoy these so much. Other TWS push certain frequencies harder making them more exciting initially but ultimately the thrill wears off and then I start to notice issues with the sound such as muted treble affecting cymbals or vocals lacking emotion (some other Sony products suffer from this with exaggerated bass and over dark signatures). Other TWS are relatively balanced but just seem to lack detail such as Jabra,they sound OK but it's like watching a well designed regular TV versus a high definition one.

The Linkbuds S manage to have more definition while avoiding having an aspect of the signature being exaggerated.

BTW using these on the train this morning and the ANC is the best I have heard, better than the old WF-1000XM3 and better then the Technics AZ60.


----------



## C_Lindbergh

Anyone tried the new Azla Sedna Max tips on the Linkbuds S?


----------



## Caipirina

As great as they are, I am actually considering returning the Linkbuds S, as I don’t find anything really new / exciting that my other buds can’t do … guess new toy syndrome ran out already. 
This being said, I still find the OG Linkbuds to be one of my most used TWS, just because I can wear them all day with ppl around. (While I’d love to have some powerful ANC on all day) … 
So, besides the XM4 and the Bose QC, what else has god tier ANC ? Please don’t say Gemini, they are still out of my range  
I keep checking Amazon daily and just don’t see anything new / exciting …


----------



## erockg

Caipirina said:


> As great as they are, I am actually considering returning the Linkbuds S, as I don’t find anything really new / exciting that my other buds can’t do … guess new toy syndrome ran out already.
> This being said, I still find the OG Linkbuds to be one of my most used TWS, just because I can wear them all day with ppl around. (While I’d love to have some powerful ANC on all day) …
> So, besides the XM4 and the Bose QC, what else has god tier ANC ? Please don’t say Gemini, they are still out of my range
> I keep checking Amazon daily and just don’t see anything new / exciting …


Personally, I have not seen or used anything better than the Sony or Bose as far as ANC is concerned.  The MTW3 ANC is decent, but not close.  The B&W PI7, decent, not close.  B&O EQ, decent, not close.  Devialet are still close, and they dropped their price by $60 here in the US.  I still like the ANC on my AirPods Pro.  Off the top of my head, I can't think of any TWS that approaches the Flossy coined "God Tier"... yet!  But I might be forgetting something.


----------



## Not so fat head

Rumor is that Amazon's return policy is killing them, I'd expect big changes in the near future..  apparently they have huge warehouses full of returned items.
Most likely a restocking fee up to 20% of the cost of the item..
Was just in the news last week, also their bottom line is suffering..


----------



## dweaver

C_Lindbergh said:


> Anyone tried the new Azla Sedna Max tips on the Linkbuds S?


Those tips look good but they are crazy expensive in Canada coming in at $37CAD. Fortunately I really like Sony hybrid tips so don't feel a need to change. Hopefully somebody will be able to actually respond with real experience.


----------



## Caipirina

erockg said:


> Personally, I have not seen or used anything better than the Sony or Bose as far as ANC is concerned.  The MTW3 ANC is decent, but not close.  The B&W PI7, decent, not close.  B&O EQ, decent, not close.  Devialet are still close, and they dropped their price by $60 here in the US.  I still like the ANC on my AirPods Pro.  Off the top of my head, I can't think of any TWS that approaches the Flossy coined "God Tier"... yet!  But I might be forgetting something.


Funny you should mention the BWPi7 ... just spotted them for 200€ used on amazon.de ... but I faintly recall that many ppl had this and that issue with them ..  I DO like the idea of using the charging case as a BT transmitter (for using in flight entertainment systems), but how often do I fly these days? once  a year .. sooooo .. 

Guess I just have to wait and NOT buy anything new ... The Horror!!! 

(Kinda mulling over the KEF Mu3 ... everyone says they sound so great ,... )


----------



## Caipirina

Not so fat head said:


> Rumor is that Amazon's return policy is killing them, I'd expect big changes in the near future..  apparently they have huge warehouses full of returned items.
> Most likely a restocking fee up to 20% of the cost of the item..
> Was just in the news last week, also their bottom line is suffering..


I read somewhere that a lot of returned stuff is turned into landfill, heck, even unsold stuff when it takes up too much space for too long ... 

Maybe it IS high time for big changes ...


----------



## erockg

Caipirina said:


> Funny you should mention the BWPi7 ... just spotted them for 200€ used on amazon.de ... but I faintly recall that many ppl had this and that issue with them ..  I DO like the idea of using the charging case as a BT transmitter (for using in flight entertainment systems), but how often do I fly these days? once  a year .. sooooo ..
> 
> Guess I just have to wait and NOT buy anything new ... The Horror!!!
> 
> (Kinda mulling over the KEF Mu3 ... everyone says they sound so great ,... )


I literally just sold my PI7s end of last week   They were great, but weren't getting enough love.  Too many others here to entertain me!  Those KEFs DO sound great.  But there isn't an app, ANC is very weak and transparency mode too.  I think a few places here in the States are blowing them out for $129 USD for the silver version.  Great price if the other features aren't important.


----------



## dweaver

Caipirina said:


> Funny you should mention the BWPi7 ... just spotted them for 200€ used on amazon.de ... but I faintly recall that many ppl had this and that issue with them ..  I DO like the idea of using the charging case as a BT transmitter (for using in flight entertainment systems), but how often do I fly these days? once  a year .. sooooo ..
> 
> Guess I just have to wait and NOT buy anything new ... The Horror!!!
> 
> (Kinda mulling over the KEF Mu3 ... everyone says they sound so great ,... )


If your in Canada I have seen the MU3 on sale for as low as either $88 or $98CAD at Visions Electronics. Generally they put them on sale for $148 versus the MSRP but I have seen them drop that price sub $100 twice in the past month or so. we don't get a lot of good deals up here but that is one of the better ones I have seen recently.


----------



## Juturna

I would so sell my Devialet Geminis on the cheap if it wasn't for the fact that I don't have a receipt for them (got them as a gift), I never really use them and feel like somebody else might get more joy from them than I do lol.


----------



## EMINENT (Jul 5, 2022)

Amazing and intrigued.






https://www.reviewgeek.com/122293/asus-new-wireless-earbuds-can-convert-to-wired-listening/


----------



## dweaver

That is a neat idea on Asus part. Will be interesting how good they sound.

I wish I had a time capsule, I used to own a pair of MDR-7550 which was a pro level in ear monitor from Sony that was an amazing IEM. I made the mistake of thinking I needed the MDR-EX1000 so sold them and bought the latter which I hated due to way to sharp a treble. Going from memory the Linkbuds S have a very similar signature. Not as big sounding, as that IEM had a massive dynamic driver that was very well tuned and the design was meant to give a more open sound, but the balance was very similar, again going from memory....


----------



## jant71 (Jul 5, 2022)

dweaver said:


> That is a neat idea on Asus part. Will be interesting how good they sound.
> 
> I wish I had a time capsule, I used to own a pair of MDR-7550 which was a pro level in ear monitor from Sony that was an amazing IEM. I made the mistake of thinking I needed the MDR-EX1000 so sold them and bought the latter which I hated due to way to sharp a treble. Going from memory the Linkbuds S have a very similar signature. Not as big sounding, as that IEM had a massive dynamic driver that was very well tuned and the design was meant to give a more open sound, but the balance was very similar, again going from memory....



So? What is stopping you??  No reason you can't have that with true wireless adapters. Most likely the EX800ST since that is the one that is available but that is the same sound. TWS adapters plus the connectors...



...and you are good to go. You could be listening to that right now!  No time capsule needed just $$$.


----------



## dweaver

LOL I can't afford to buy THAT time capsule at the moment  . But yes the EX800ST is the same model as the MDR-7550 if I remember correctly. I did not know about that adapter though, very interesting! That is very cool and would allow me to Frankenstein them with the Fiio UTWS5.

My best 2 Sony IEMS were the MDR-7550 and the XBA-Z5, the latter was an insane 3D monster with a theater like BIG sound. Far from balanced but so amazing it didn't matter! Until the $$%#$%$E#%$% MMCX connector died and then broke when I tried to repair them, turning $700 into rubble...

The Linkbuds S are not those IEM's but is the next best sounding Sony IEM I have owned due to its balance sound and super comfy fit.

maybe someday I will be able to afford to take that time capsule for a spin...


----------



## Tommy C

dweaver said:


> LOL I can't afford to buy THAT time capsule at the moment  . But yes the EX800ST is the same model as the MDR-7550 if I remember correctly. I did not know about that adapter though, very interesting! That is very cool and would allow me to Frankenstein them with the Fiio UTWS5.
> 
> My best 2 Sony IEMS were the MDR-7550 and the XBA-Z5, the latter was an insane 3D monster with a theater like BIG sound. Far from balanced but so amazing it didn't matter! Until the $$%#$%$E#%$% MMCX connector died and then broke when I tried to repair them, turning $700 into rubble...
> 
> ...


I took a time capsule ride last year and bought a NOS of the Ultimate Ears UE900. I wasn’t wowed like I was 10 years ago when I paid $400 CAD for them but oh the nostalgia lol
Nowadays they live on the Shure TW2 and I’m very happy with the SQ on the go.
I remember he the Sony 800ST were highly recommend back then and now I’m curious if I should look around.
They are around $250 on Amazon nowadays.


----------



## dweaver

Tommy C said:


> I took a time capsule ride last year and bought a NOS of the Ultimate Ears UE900. I wasn’t wowed like I was 10 years ago when I paid $400 CAD for them but oh the nostalgia lol
> Nowadays they live on the Shure TW2 and I’m very happy with the SQ on the go.
> I remember he the Sony 800ST were highly recommend back then and now I’m curious if I should look around.
> They are around $250 on Amazon nowadays.


They were an awesome sounding IEM, no doubt. Sony at the pinnacle of their audiophile prowess in my opinion. I have bought so many Sony products based off that IEM hoping they would come back to those sound signature roots.


----------



## howdy

for anyone owning the Sennheiser CX and the MTW3 is there a significant/justifiable upgrade to the MTW3? Also, I still have the MTW1, does the MTW3 sound "better"? I havnt bought a TW in over a year which is unheard of on the thread, lol. Cant decide between MTW3 and Beoplay EX.


----------



## The Jojo

Caipirina said:


> Funny you should mention the BWPi7 ... just spotted them for 200€ used on amazon.de ... but I faintly recall that many ppl had this and that issue with them ..  I DO like the idea of using the charging case as a BT transmitter (for using in flight entertainment systems), but how often do I fly these days? once  a year .. sooooo ..
> 
> Guess I just have to wait and NOT buy anything new ... The Horror!!!
> 
> (Kinda mulling over the KEF Mu3 ... everyone says they sound so great ,... )



The BT transmitter is a fantastic feature that really came in handy more often than I thought - flying of course, but also making my older 7.1 receiver able to pair with wireless earbuds which is kind of cool. Loved it. 

What I didn't love was the fact that I couldn't switch between ANC / ambient mode without using the app. Also: no equalizer.


----------



## bladefd

Not so fat head said:


> Rumor is that Amazon's return policy is killing them, I'd expect big changes in the near future..  apparently they have huge warehouses full of returned items.
> Most likely a restocking fee up to 20% of the cost of the item..
> Was just in the news last week, also their bottom line is suffering..


So I guess Amazon doesn't go through a cleaning process to re-sell all returned products? I always thought they did.


----------



## samandhi (Jul 5, 2022)

bladefd said:


> So I guess Amazon doesn't go through a cleaning process to re-sell all returned products? I always thought they did.


They do indeed. Amazon Renewed. The major problem I have seen with this and head gear specifically, is that because they (Amazon) has resold them, the head gear makers might not honor their warranty (because it's not through an authorized seller). Sounds like a bit of a grey area if you ask me, but it can be hard to fight that fight. I have seen it happen here on Head-Fi, though it may be a one-off so YMMV.

Edit: Also of note, Amazon is not very good at verifying whether the product is fake or not and has been known to sell those fakes as the real Mcoy. Or maybe they don't care, not sure. I know I tend to stay away from this side of Amazon altogether for all the above reasons.


----------



## samandhi (Jul 5, 2022)

Interesting. Battery life seems to suck, but 5 driver hybrid (1 DD + 4 Knowles BA).... Oh, and don't forget the case doubles as a bottle opener. Gotta' have that! 



Spoiler: Gravastar Sirius Pro TWS


----------



## Not so fat head

bladefd said:


> So I guess Amazon doesn't go through a cleaning process to re-sell all returned products? I always thought they did.


Looks like it's not just Amazon, but all large online retailers; Target, Best Buy.. etc..  
The article also said in some cases, if you don't like the product, just keep it, and they'll refund your money..
Now this sounds completely non sustainable, but who knows.  Maybe there's hundreds of free headphones in our future..  There is a Santa...   😃


----------



## nekonhime

Not so fat head said:


> Looks like it's not just Amazon, but all large online retailers; Target, Best Buy.. etc..
> The article also said in some cases, if you don't like the product, just keep it, and they'll refund your money..
> Now this sounds completely non sustainable, but who knows.  Maybe there's hundreds of free headphones in our future..  There is a Santa...   😃


So basically just lie about returning the product returning then get a refund? Most of them will turn up in the special dumpsters anyway lol like those money grubbers want the buyers to have free stuffs


----------



## FYLegend

Not so fat head said:


> Looks like it's not just Amazon, but all large online retailers; Target, Best Buy.. etc..
> The article also said in some cases, if you don't like the product, just keep it, and they'll refund your money..
> Now this sounds completely non sustainable, but who knows.  Maybe there's hundreds of free headphones in our future..  There is a Santa...   😃


Not sure about Amazon themselves but many of the third-party brands were willing to give full refunds in exchange for 5-star reviews so I'm not surprised! Amazon did crack down on many of these brands which now typically sell on their own sites but I'd suspect some of those still remaining on Amazon do it but more stealthily.


----------



## Tenlow

Tried the B&O EX with comply tips (L). As expected, the standard EQ setting doesn't sound very good with them...bassy, no real bass extension and very subdued highs. Things get better when switching to the "Comply Tips" EQ preset in the app, though.

So, people who use or have used the EX with comply or foam tips, what EQ setting do you use?


----------



## Hearforthemusic

Have recently received a pair of Linkbud s after some of The recent positive feedback on here on them.
Initial reaction is oh my god they are so much comfier, but compared to my xm4s they definitely don’t sound as rich throughout the spectrum.

Has anyone any recommended Eq settings or tips? Have stuck a pair of crystal tips on and sounds fairly similar to the stock tips for me.
Core listening is probably electronic and rap, and a little bit of everything else.

They’re perfect for my trip to the gym and can already feel the benefit on my ears compared to xm4, but would be great if I could eek out a touch more audio quality


----------



## Mouseman

nekonhime said:


> So basically just lie about returning the product returning then get a refund? Most of them will turn up in the special dumpsters anyway lol like those money grubbers want the buyers to have free stuffs


They actually sell pallets of random returned stuff to companies for cents on the dollar. There's a store near me that gets shipments in once a week, rolls them into a empty store, and the line of 100s of people who have been waiting since the night before in some cases, descends like sharks to a feeding frenzy. I've only been there a few days after the "drop" and people are still picking over the junk.


----------



## dweaver

Hearforthemusic said:


> Have recently received a pair of Linkbud s after some of The recent positive feedback on here on them.
> Initial reaction is oh my god they are so much comfier, but compared to my xm4s they definitely don’t sound as rich throughout the spectrum.
> 
> Has anyone any recommended Eq settings or tips? Have stuck a pair of crystal tips on and sounds fairly similar to the stock tips for me.
> ...



Sorry I can't help in that regard as I have not owned the XM4. I can see anyone who has owned that model struggling with the Linkbuds S though unless you didn't like the XM4 signature. But if you like that signature or have gotten used to it. The S is going to be a big adjustment. Hopefully someone can recommend the EQ they found works best for you. I would think you will need to boost the bass, lower the upper midrange a smidge, and lower the treble a bit to get a darker signature.

I recommend if you can to just use the Linkbuds S for a day or 2. This will give your brain and ears a chance to get used to the different signature. If you want to switch back and forth to give your ears a break from the size of XM4 you might want to tweak both IEM's EQ to find a middle ground signature wise.


----------



## bladefd

Mouseman said:


> They actually sell pallets of random returned stuff to companies for cents on the dollar. There's a store near me that gets shipments in once a week, rolls them into a empty store, and the line of 100s of people who have been waiting since the night before in some cases, descends like sharks to a feeding frenzy. I've only been there a few days after the "drop" and people are still picking over the junk.


I think overstock and woot does something similar except they still charge good amount of money so not exactly the same. I wish there was a website that was like that store you mentioned charging lol. I would never stand hours in a line.


----------



## Caipirina

bladefd said:


> So I guess Amazon doesn't go through a cleaning process to re-sell all returned products? I always thought they did.


I really wonder what the process is sometimes, I have received items (backpack) that was described as 'Used - Acceptable' and the description said something about a major damage somewhere .. which I was not able to find

It appears with IEMs / TWS the rule is now to resell them without eartips, which is a bummer and probably a cost consideration when some buds come with their own 'special' tips ... take this nugget of a 'Used - Good' description ... makes me really rather take the new item ... Amazon Warehouse used to be fun, I found the very first Sony 1000X there for less than 10€ ... or some overears that used to be 400€ for 95€ ...   these days the 'savings' is so little, then I rather get new (and return  )


----------



## scubaphish

Caipirina said:


> I really wonder what the process is sometimes, I have received items (backpack) that was described as 'Used - Acceptable' and the description said something about a major damage somewhere .. which I was not able to find
> 
> It appears with IEMs / TWS the rule is now to resell them without eartips, which is a bummer and probably a cost consideration when some buds come with their own 'special' tips ... take this nugget of a 'Used - Good' description ... makes me really rather take the new item ... Amazon Warehouse used to be fun, I found the very first Sony 1000X there for less than 10€ ... or some overears that used to be 400€ for 95€ ...   these days the 'savings' is so little, then I rather get new (and return  )


I’ve gotten pretty good deals on Amazon US but the descriptions aren’t entirely accurate. Oftentimes in one’s favor, where you cannot even see marks, but last two times there were no extra eartips because the returner must have kept them, but description didn’t say they were missing.


----------



## Caipirina

scubaphish said:


> I’ve gotten pretty good deals on Amazon US but the descriptions aren’t entirely accurate. Oftentimes in one’s favor, where you cannot even see marks, but last two times there were no extra eartips because the returner must have kept them, but description didn’t say they were missing.


I had that with my very first amazon warehouse experience back in 2018, the Gear Icon X .. came without tips .. and somehow the menu voice was in French  was also my first warehouse return ... 
Which reminds me .. no one even bothered to put memory & a player into TWS ... that used to be a thing some had ...


----------



## nekonhime

Mouseman said:


> They actually sell pallets of random returned stuff to companies for cents on the dollar. There's a store near me that gets shipments in once a week, rolls them into a empty store, and the line of 100s of people who have been waiting since the night before in some cases, descends like sharks to a feeding frenzy. I've only been there a few days after the "drop" and people are still picking over the junk.


Damn, I need to find those places cause there might be good things hidden inside


----------



## donedj

Juturna said:


> I tried the B&O EX today for the first time on my lunch break, went into a Hi-Fi shop here where I live.
> I really liked them, they impressed me on my first listen unlike the MTW3's that I felt were unremarkable to me on a similar short listen.
> 
> However I don't think they're $400-remarkable, I went back to my Galaxy Buds Pro's right after and didn't necessarily even think they sounded worse in comparison, on the contrary I think they sounded better in some regards, and I paid $50 for mine, so for me they're a... I would want them, and if money wasn't an issue for me I'd get them, easy. I actually like their EQ wheel-thingie, even though I'd prefer a full 10+ band EQ I think this is way more intuitive and changes the sound more to your preference than just a 3-band EQ like Sennheiser has for an example.


Honestly I do really like the Samsung pros. They really did a good job with those.


----------



## Fleeple

donedj said:


> Honestly I do really like the Samsung pros. They really did a good job with those.


If only they would stay in better.....


----------



## Tenlow (Jul 7, 2022)

What about these? The new Beyerdynamic Free BYRD, their first TWS:

https://www.beyerdynamic.de/free-by...utm_campaign=freebyrd_launch&utm_content=juli

Available now. Seem a bit big but have quite a bit going for them as well, very good battery (11h) life as well as sound personalization, BT 5.2, aptX adaptive, wireless chargin, allegedly great call quality e.g. ANC and transparency mode on deck of course. No multipoint and no customizable touch controls + only IPX4, though.

Here's an unboxing video:



Price seems relatively reasonable as well (229€). Anybody willing to try them?


----------



## Tstorey

Well after buying a pair of M&D MW07 in the sale a while ago and never getting a good fit on them I gave them up as a bad job. 

Fast forward a year, I dug them out and did a little DIY on some old tips and came up with a fix to allow more tip choice and have finally found a pair of tips that allow a good seal and stay in place. With Apple Music lossless that they are astounding. Really full sound and comfortable to boot.


----------



## Tenlow

Tstorey said:


> Well after buying a pair of M&D MW07 in the sale a while ago and never getting a good fit on them I gave them up as a bad job.
> 
> Fast forward a year, I dug them out and did a little DIY on some old tips and came up with a fix to allow more tip choice and have finally found a pair of tips that allow a good seal and stay in place. With Apple Music lossless that they are astounding. Really full sound and comfortable to boot.


Yep, it's all about that perfect seal with TWS (and regular In ears), isn't it? Even the best ones sound rubbish without it.


----------



## Tstorey (Jul 7, 2022)

I’d given up on them as I got a good seal once and once only which broke really quickly when I opened my mouth. Came back to them and the difference in sound (and fit) is night and day.


----------



## Caipirina

Tenlow said:


> What about these? The new Beyerdynamic Free BYRD, their first TWS:
> 
> https://www.beyerdynamic.de/free-by...utm_campaign=freebyrd_launch&utm_content=juli
> 
> ...



if only they sold them on amazon.de and I know I can easily return them  ... for now I wait for more reviews ...  but other than 11h battery, nothing screams 'gotta have'


----------



## tiagopinto (Jul 7, 2022)

Tenlow said:


> What about these? The new Beyerdynamic Free BYRD, their first TWS:
> 
> https://www.beyerdynamic.de/free-by...utm_campaign=freebyrd_launch&utm_content=juli
> 
> ...






Caipirina said:


> if only they sold them on amazon.de and I know I can easily return them  ... for now I wait for more reviews ...  but other than 11h battery, nothing screams 'gotta have'



A little more info here:



Not much about real life sound qualities and technicalities. Reviews are awaited.

Edit: I’ve found a few reviews but none compelling.


----------



## samandhi

tiagopinto said:


> A little more info here:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



MAN! Those are almost big enough to be considered "on-ear", not in-ear...


----------



## stacey

Hey guys, I’m selling my AK UW100. They’re good, but no sense in having both these, and the Beoplay EX.


----------



## Tenlow

samandhi said:


> MAN! Those are almost big enough to be considered "on-ear", not in-ear...


----------



## erockg

They look about the same size and form factor as the Yamaha TW-E7B.


----------



## stacey

Those look huge. How about the fit? A lot of TWS may look big but is actually very comfortable for long periods.


----------



## Tenlow

stacey said:


> Those look huge. How about the fit? A lot of TWS may look big but is actually very comfortable for long periods.


Tempted to test them. Beyerdynamic have 10% off at the moment, making them 206€. 

Reviews are fairly good so far but not really outstanding. Only battery life really is. 10mm drivers is nice, too.

I've just bought the EX and still have the MTW3, so it's kinda unlikely that the Beyers will blow them out of the water but we all know how this is going to turn out...


----------



## jant71 (Jul 7, 2022)

erockg said:


> They look about the same size and form factor as the Yamaha TW-E7B.


I see what you did there.  I have found the Yamaha like those type of bulbous tips. TWS short style not very good, bullet tip shape not very good. Wider, round, bulbous for the win. @erockg are the E7B also Kingstate Electronics Co. ? looks like it still is. Should say in the case lid.

Also found the right pair in multiple ways for the SoundMagic TWS...

The green is a nice touch. Best thing is they are normal length but stem is shorter inside. So, short TWS style is fine but not ideal for me. Normal tips are good but tough to balance the sound and seal L and R. Normal length outside but shorter inside works best for a good seal but even on both sides. Kinda picky for the ideal fit but worth the effort.


----------



## samandhi

jant71 said:


> I see what you did there.  I have found the Yamaha like those type of bulbous tips. TWS short style not very good, bullet tip shape not very good. Wider, round, bulbous for the win. @erockg are the E7B also Kingstate Electronics Co. ? looks like it still is. Should say in the case lid.
> 
> Also found the right pair in multiple ways for the SoundMagic TWS...
> 
> The green is a nice touch. Best thing is they are normal length but stem is shorter inside. So, short TWS style is fine but not ideal for me. Normal tips are good but tough to balance the sound and seal L and R. Normal length outside but shorter inside works best for a good seal but even on both sides. Kinda picky for the ideal fit but worth the effort.


Apologies, but those look like either something from fisher price, or some of grandma's old school hearing aids...  

Seriously though, I see what you are saying, and short style is not good for my ears. I have to way oversize the tips to make them have a decent seal. It feels really weird to my ears.


----------



## sly_in_the_sky

Just a little reply: I bought a pair of Sennheiser CX Plus and I must say that I am astonished about the sound... for the price, I find them incredible but clearly not in the same league than my Fokus pro... they do everything in better.


----------



## Jhericurls

sly_in_the_sky said:


> Just a little reply: I bought a pair of Sennheiser CX Plus and I must say that I am astonished about the sound... for the price, I find them incredible but clearly not in the same league than my Fokus pro... they do everything in better.



They use the same drivers as the MTW3


----------



## tiagopinto

Jhericurls said:


> They use the same drivers as the MTW3



How do you know this?


----------



## jant71 (Jul 8, 2022)

tiagopinto said:


> How do you know this?



What other driver do they have?? 7mm True Response transducer. Plain Jane for the TWS and the better "select" version for the high end wired. Yes, they have a 10mm in cheaper stuff but for our purposes, TWS, there is only one. Besides them stating it, Senn would not have dropped the price to $249 if they had put a new improved driver in there.


----------



## gimmeshelter

i managed to get a pair of LG Tone Free FP8 for £79 on amazon UK and they are brilliant value. 

look great, sound great, packed with features and the best fitting / comfortable ear buds i’ve ever owned. 

can’t believe there’s so little reviews or hype about these. 

an absolute gem.


----------



## jant71 (Jul 8, 2022)

Well, a couple of people were inquiring a while back, I saw there is another custom fit TWS option...
https://knockdown.fit/?gclid=EAIaIQobChMI2d6A35Lq-AIVZQ-ICR2_ygGMEAEYASAAEgIQHPD_BwE

Yep, more custom tips on a TWS than a fully custom TWS but not much to choose from.


----------



## Jhericurls

tiagopinto said:


> How do you know this?



https://www.androidcentral.com/accessories/audio/earbuds/sennheiser-momentum-true-wireless-3-review


> Sennheiser went with perhaps the same 7mm TrueResponse transducer drivers it originally used in the CX Plus True Wireless, which are great at producing a wider, balanced soundstage. What's likely changed is the way digital signal processing and software deliver the sound to your ears with more clarity. I wouldn't consider the Momentum True Wireless 3 a big leap forward over the previous pair, but they do sound better in the right areas.


----------



## Caipirina

gimmeshelter said:


> i managed to get a pair of LG Tone Free FP8 for £79 on amazon UK and they are brilliant value.
> 
> look great, sound great, packed with features and the best fitting / comfortable ear buds i’ve ever owned.
> 
> ...


can compare with Airpods Pro? They are 87€ on amz.de  ... but I am kinda done with stem buds .. but I see how they could be an interesting alternative to the still quite expensive APP


----------



## gimmeshelter

Caipirina said:


> can compare with Airpods Pro? They are 87€ on amz.de  ... but I am kinda done with stem buds .. but I see how they could be an interesting alternative to the still quite expensive APP


----------



## gimmeshelter

this pretty much sums them up, the most accurate review i’ve come across.  

https://www.trustedreviews.com/reviews/lg-tone-free-ufp8


----------



## mainguy

After trying tons of tws sets, I’ve come full circle back to Airpods Pro.

Theyre just the best overall tws, I think. Tws is all about convenience, and they are objectively the most convenient if youre on iOS.

Comfort blows every iem ive ever tried away, due to the shallow seal. Best mic, best call quality, great ANC.

And they sound seriously good. Better than the mw07 plus imo, and as good as the PI7 ive used for so long.

Sometimes the simplest answer is the best. So ends my search!


----------



## Phaethon

My AirPod Pro and Beats Fit Pro have become my dailies for the same reasons. I wish the iOS EQ was even sorta good, but I’ve found a preset that works for me and they just work instantly and consistently. I have many sets but I fiddle around with those more than I actually listen to music. With the APP and BFP I put them in, press play and listen to music instead of trying to get them connected.


----------



## mikeyhd

it's always the portability vs sound factor, and personally, I have to listen very carefully to hear the difference


----------



## mainguy (Jul 9, 2022)

mikeyhd said:


> it's always the portability vs sound factor, and personally, I have to listen very carefully to hear the difference


Yeah, the competitors just haven't pulled away. And where they have they have still made compromises in sound. Pi7 for instance, vs Airpods Pro, the Pi7 have the deeper bass and wider stage, but also less energy in the midrange and treble. I think with the present market, if you're on iOS, all things considered, just buy Airpods Pro. Pricing wise they're just a better deal too, easy to find on ebay for 120ish brand new.


----------



## Caipirina (Jul 9, 2022)

Phaethon said:


> My AirPod Pro and Beats Fit Pro have become my dailies for the same reasons. I wish the iOS EQ was even sorta good, but I’ve found a preset that works for me and they just work instantly and consistently. I have many sets but I fiddle around with those more than I actually listen to music. With the APP and BFP I put them in, press play and listen to music instead of trying to get them connected.


and for those reasons I JUST got me the Airpods Gen 3 (from Amazon Warehouse for 130€) and I am liking what I am hearing so far ... I never owned the OG Airpods, so I am kinda missing the open soundstage feel of those kinds of buds .. unfortunately, as much as I love my Sabbats ... they have become somewhat unreliable in the charging department ...

As for the amazon warehouse gamble ... those were the ones classified as 'used-acceptable' (I had posted the terrible description earlier) and well, it does kinda fit .. the case has seen some pocket time with a bunch of keys it seems, but that's really just cosmetic ... on one bud the grate where the plastic halves are fused together looks a bit odd, so for a while I was thinking I might have gotten a knock off ... but .. everything works within my apple ecosystem, they sound great, spatial audio is great, they switch nearly seamless between my devices .. so, I guess it's all good.

Now I have to test running with them tomorrow

(Oh wow, I just knocked the price down to 110€ ... I noticed that the wrong cable was in the box, usb A instead of USB C ... so I complained in support chat, first they offered 10€ off, then I showed then that they charge 23€ for that cable ... that was a very positive customer experience ...    )


----------



## jant71 (Jul 9, 2022)

Anybody gonna try these as they seem available now...





Budget deal of the day??...
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0B3HYZ42...jbGlja1JlZGlyZWN0JmRvTm90TG9nQ2xpY2s9dHJ1ZQ==
Tronsmart Onyx Pure One for $18 when you check the little box. 5.3, decent battery life, hybrid drivers, small size, full controls including 3 EQ modes.


----------



## Caipirina

Caipirina said:


> and for those reasons I JUST got me the Airpods Gen 3 (from Amazon Warehouse for 130€) and I am liking what I am hearing so far ... I never owned the OG Airpods, so I am kinda missing the open soundstage feel of those kinds of buds .. unfortunately, as much as I love my Sabbats ... they have become somewhat unreliable in the charging department ...
> 
> As for the amazon warehouse gamble ... those were the ones classified as 'used-acceptable' (I had posted the terrible description earlier) and well, it does kinda fit .. the case has seen some pocket time with a bunch of keys it seems, but that's really just cosmetic ... on one bud the grate where the plastic halves are fused together looks a bit odd, so for a while I was thinking I might have gotten a knock off ... but .. everything works within my apple ecosystem, they sound great, spatial audio is great, they switch nearly seamless between my devices .. so, I guess it's all good.
> 
> Now I have to test running with them tomorrow





jant71 said:


> Anybody gonna try these as they seem available now...
> 
> 
> Budget deal of the day??...
> ...


BT 5.3? First time I see that …. Anyone know what the upgrade is from .2?


----------



## jant71 (Jul 9, 2022)

Caipirina said:


> BT 5.3? First time I see that …. Anyone know what the upgrade is from .2?



Not much as far as LE things yet. From what I see on TWS models so far is 15M vs. 10M on the range and "quicker" connection is usually mentioned.


----------



## assassin10000

Haven't got anything new in a while, decided to order the sony linkbuds (donuts). Despite the lack of qi charging.


----------



## samandhi

assassin10000 said:


> Haven't got anything new in a while, decided to order the sony linkbuds (donuts). Despite the lack of qi charging.


As long as you get a good fit, they are pretty darned good IMHO. Let us know your thoughts when you've had time to acclimate to them?!


----------



## Caipirina

assassin10000 said:


> Haven't got anything new in a while, decided to order the sony linkbuds (donuts). Despite the lack of qi charging.


I actually use one of those magnetic break-away cables / plugs for mine. Works easy enough. 
Love those buds, easy to forget and I constantly have some meditation bling bling music in my ears when I have to endure listening to IRL people talk …


----------



## Caipirina

I did a search here, but apparently there was no talk yet about the A3i model, new one from Soundcore / Anker ... I am kinda curious about those guys 

They seem to have a rather unique shape that will let folks be divided, like back then with the Galaxy Beans ... they remind me of the beans, but with tips ... and Scarbir noted the same ... there's also a long review by El Jeffe comparing them with 1more piston buds & Soundpeats mini pro. He likes them best for SQ and second for ANC ... 

I shall see if there's any deal or coupon action happening come Prime Day .. 

They come in 2 different names ...


----------



## mikeyhd

interesting idea, never though of this one (magnetic cable)


----------



## mainguy

Caipirina said:


> I actually use one of those magnetic break-away cables / plugs for mine. Works easy enough.
> Love those buds, easy to forget and I constantly have some meditation bling bling music in my ears when I have to endure listening to IRL people talk …


those cables are godlike. My house is now full of them and virtually every device I have is universal. Total game changer if you have lightnjng/UsB c/USB a


----------



## DDDYKI

jant71 said:


> Anybody gonna try these as they seem available now...
> 
> 
> Budget deal of the day??...
> ...


Just got a set of M and a set of MS today. Thought I was all set earlier in the week but I accidentally ordered, opened, and used the _standard _version, size ML. Since those felt a little too tight, I ordered M and MS of the correct TWS variety. They attach with a little effort and sound great. Perhaps a little large on me but I'm not aching yet. I generally use Medium tips on everything. I'll try the MS tomorrow doing yardwork. 

Definitely better for me than the standard Sennheiser tips. I've been using those exclusively the past few days and have struggled with the fit and resulting sound in my left ear. I will try to A/B with the SpinFit 1025 TWS, which I also like (think I have those in M/ML).

These do indeed fit in the charging case, in case any MTW3 users find this post later.


----------



## assassin10000

samandhi said:


> As long as you get a good fit, they are pretty darned good IMHO. Let us know your thoughts when you've had time to acclimate to them?!


Will do.


Caipirina said:


> I actually use one of those magnetic break-away cables / plugs for mine. Works easy enough.
> Love those buds, easy to forget and I constantly have some meditation bling bling music in my ears when I have to endure listening to IRL people talk …


I already do that.  I think I have 3-6 spare magnetic ends for future devices already.


mainguy said:


> those cables are godlike. My house is now full of them and virtually every device I have is universal. Total game changer if you have lightnjng/UsB c/USB a


Qi is the answer but I'm taking a flyer on the Sony donuts. I'm hoping the fit is better and sound at least as good as the Buds Live/beans.

Everything else I typically would carry except for my power bank has wireless charging. But my power bank charges other devices wirelessly.


----------



## erockg

Been selling off some TWS that aren't getting love and then this is on deck.  Buckling up as I type.  IE600s on the Shure TW2 Gen 2 adapters, here I come!!!


----------



## ldo77

Caipirina said:


> I did a search here, but apparently there was no talk yet about the A3i model, new one from Soundcore / Anker ... I am kinda curious about those guys
> 
> They seem to have a rather unique shape that will let folks be divided, like back then with the Galaxy Beans ... they remind me of the beans, but with tips ... and Scarbir noted the same ... there's also a long review by El Jeffe comparing them with 1more piston buds & Soundpeats mini pro. He likes them best for SQ and second for ANC ...
> 
> ...


A review here 
https://www.scarbir.com/tws/soundcore-life-a3i-review


----------



## Bobbetybob

If anyone is looking for a good bargain you can pick up the Cambridge Audio Melomania 1+ from CA's ebay store for £40 at the moment. I was always a bit put off because I'm not sure how they'll fit but thought it was worth a punt at that price.


----------



## samandhi

Bobbetybob said:


> If anyone is looking for a good bargain you can pick up the Cambridge Audio Melomania 1+ from CA's ebay store for £40 at the moment. I was always a bit put off because I'm not sure how they'll fit but thought it was worth a punt at that price.


Those are more like IEMs in their fitment, so they rely more on deep insertion than other TWS. For me I like that style a bit better.


----------



## BobJS

Tstorey said:


> Well after buying a pair of M&D MW07 in the sale a while ago and never getting a good fit on them I gave them up as a bad job.
> 
> Fast forward a year, I dug them out and did a little DIY on some old tips and came up with a fix to allow more tip choice and have finally found a pair of tips that allow a good seal and stay in place. With Apple Music lossless that they are astounding. Really full sound and comfortable to boot.



I've gotta admit.  These are still my all-time favorite and go-to model (well, MW07+) in terms of sound and fit.


----------



## jant71

erockg said:


> Been selling off some TWS that aren't getting love and then this is on deck.  Buckling up as I type.  IE600s on the Shure TW2 Gen 2 adapters, here I come!!!


 Small even with the cable connection. They sure could build a TWS housing around that minus the connector protrusion. AptX loseless and good mics. Maybe just a couple and not sure they need to ANC. Just audiophile with 5.3, lossless, ambient, and good controls. Won't be tiny but won't be BOSE either. Wonder what they would charge if they did it. Probably the TWS600 would cost $600.


----------



## mikeyhd

between TW1 and TW2 i can't hear any difference


----------



## erockg (Jul 10, 2022)

jant71 said:


> Small even with the cable connection. They sure could build a TWS housing around that minus the connector protrusion. AptX loseless and good mics. Maybe just a couple and not sure they need to ANC. Just audiophile with 5.3, lossless, ambient, and good controls. Won't be tiny but won't be BOSE either. Wonder what they would charge if they did it. Probably the TWS600 would cost $600.


The clarity on the IE600 is incredible.  I'm also amazed at how wide the soundstage is.  Might try them on my Fostex TM2C and see how fit etc. compares.  Been reading a ton about the IE600 and every kind thing I'm reading is correct.


----------



## dweaver (Jul 10, 2022)

So I have had these Linkbuds S for just about 2 weeks now and according to the app I have used them for 79;hours so far. The only other TWS combo I own that had this much initial use from me is the Fiio FH5/UTWS5 combo.

I cracked those back out last night and they definitely are a step up, no doubt about it. They have better sub-bass, sound stage, and 3D presentation but the Linkbuds S has a similar signature, sound stage and 3D presentation just scaled back. They have about 85% of the general signature, 90% of the sub-bass, 70% of the sound stage and 3D presentation.

To put that into perspective, the GBuds Pro achieve around 80% of the sound stage and 3D presentation but at the expense of isolation and lower noise floor. 

I have a song from the Open your Ears album (an HD tracks binaural sampler) called Heartbeat which plays for different lower sub-bass heartbeats and both Linkbuds S and the Fiio combo had almost the same ability to reproduce the beats with both playing the final beat but with the same lack of authority, again showing a very similar signature.

I fiddled with the app quite a bit initially getting the buds to recognize what I wanted but in the past week aside from the occasional over ride due to different circumstances I generally don't have to adjust anything, the buds just work in a way I find appropriate. So that functionality if pretty good on these.

They definitely could use the dual device functionality though and I really wish they had a longer battery life because I do find myself leaving them in for longer periods than other TWS and am sad when the battery level gets low. Definitely the most comfortable TWS I have owned.

I like seeing that I am using these in a way that is safe for my ears in the app. The adaptive feature stats show these have adjusted the sound 550 times since I have them!


----------



## BooleanBones

erockg said:


> The clarity on the IE600 is incredible.  I'm also amazed at how wide the soundstage is.  Might try them on my Fostex TM2C and see how they fit etc. compares.  Been reading a ton about the IE600 and every kind thing I'm reading is correct.


They are great. Instrumentals on them are truly magical.


----------



## erockg

BooleanBones said:


> They are great. Instrumentals on them are truly magical.


Really surprised.  Are you still using them with the TW2 or is the FiiO a better fit?  Might snag the UTWS5 again for my arsenal.


----------



## BooleanBones

erockg said:


> Really surprised.  Are you still using them with the TW2 or is the FiiO a better fit?  Might snag the UTWS5 again for my arsenal.


I actually have recently been using them with Qudelix 5k most recently. But I still have them all. I really like the lightweight feel of the factory hooks.


----------



## Caipirina (Jul 10, 2022)

Those Oladance very open kind of TWS just got a massive 80€ voucher here in EU ...  I like the orange, but I am not sold on the concept .. I recall someone here describing the experience as underwhelming ...




Anyone else waiting / hoping for anything special on Prime Day? Please share! I read some article saying that amaozon has deals with Bose and Sony in place ... we shall see ...


----------



## jant71 (Jul 10, 2022)

In the TFZ BOX is a 5.9mm "Tesla class" dynamic driver.




Doesn't seem to have much going for it other than that. SBC/AAC, BT5.3, 6 hours battery, and a weird design. Even the photoshopped marketing pic has bad execution...




Only $49 but a bad effort from The Falling Zipper.


----------



## jant71

Caipirina said:


> Those Oladance very open kind of TWS just got a massive 80€ voucher here in EU ...  I like the orange, but I am not sold on the concept .. I recall someone here describing the experience as underwhelming ...
> 
> 
> 
> Anyone else waiting / hoping for anything special on Prime Day? Please share! I read some article saying that amaozon has deals with Bose and Sony in place ... we shall see ...


The Cleer ARC seems the best quality offering of this type. Not sure if they are available over there yet.


----------



## Mouseman

jant71 said:


> In the TFZ BOX is a 5.9mm "Tesla class" dynamic driver.
> 
> 
> Doesn't seem to have much going for it other than that. SBC/AAC, BT5.3, 6 hours battery, and a weird design. Even the photoshopped marketing pic has bad execution...
> ...


what is going on inside his ear?


----------



## jant71

Mouseman said:


> what is going on inside his ear?


Guess with all those piercings he couldn't wear them the usual way so he made a new opening a bit lower to use his new "BOX" TWS.


----------



## AudioNoob

Does anyone know if the Final E TWS tips work on Jabras and other such shallow flange iems?


----------



## samandhi (Jul 10, 2022)

AudioNoob said:


> Does anyone know if the Final E TWS tips work on Jabras and other such shallow flange iems?


Its been my experience that they work fine, but putting them back into the charging case frequently presents a problem because they are longer than the shallow tip type of TWS. However, there is a solution if you like the Type E tips... Final Type E TWS tips

Edit: My bad, you DID say Final TWS Tips... Disregard my post here... The answer then is yes!


----------



## jant71 (Jul 10, 2022)

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/tinhifi-tin-buds-3.964073/




As usual, with Chi-Fi TWS, have to be skeptical until proven they are good but they might be the best looking this side of the FoKuS.


----------



## Ceeluh7

jant71 said:


> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/tinhifi-tin-buds-3.964073/
> 
> As usual, with Chi-Fi TWS, have to be skeptical until proven they are good but they might be the best looking this side of the FoKuS.


The graph is out there... These look nice. I believe iann Fann has them already. Great looking set.


----------



## jant71

Real world pics of this guy...


----------



## AudioNoob

samandhi said:


> Its been my experience that they work fine, but putting them back into the charging case frequently presents a problem because they are longer than the shallow tip type of TWS. However, there is a solution if you like the Type E tips... Final Type E TWS tips
> 
> Edit: My bad, you DID say Final TWS Tips... Disregard my post here... The answer then is yes!


Yup I did say Final TWS. I didn't know if the flange was shallow enough to go on the jabras.


----------



## TK33

dweaver said:


> So I have had these Linkbuds S for just about 2 weeks now and according to the app I have used them for 79;hours so far. The only other TWS combo I own that had this much initial use from me is the Fiio FH5/UTWS5 combo.
> 
> I cracked those back out last night and they definitely are a step up, no doubt about it. They have better sub-bass, sound stage, and 3D presentation but the Linkbuds S has a similar signature, sound stage and 3D presentation just scaled back. They have about 85% of the general signature, 90% of the sub-bass, 70% of the sound stage and 3D presentation.
> 
> ...


These are on sale at Best Buy for $158 + tax in the U.S. for "Black Friday in July" (their version of Prime Day).  Really tempted right now but I finally got the Sennheiser MTW3 and have been really enjoying those.

https://www.bestbuy.com/site/sony-l....p?skuId=6505725&loc=pdpShare&ref=app_android


----------



## jant71 (Jul 11, 2022)

TK33 said:


> These are on sale at Best Buy for $158 + tax in the U.S. for "Black Friday in July" (their version of Prime Day).  Really tempted right now but I finally got the Sennheiser MTW3 and have been really enjoying those.
> 
> https://www.bestbuy.com/site/sony-l....p?skuId=6505725&loc=pdpShare&ref=app_android



If you notice, Amazon is matching, so $158 there as well. Amazon still hoping to kill Best Buy off.


----------



## erockg

BooleanBones said:


> I actually have recently been using them with Qudelix 5k most recently. But I still have them all. I really like the lightweight feel of the factory hooks.


Very cool!  What tips have you had luck with?  I'm still rollin'.  Final E's seem to be good today.  Foam stock didn't work for me.  Azla, eh.  Going in circles.


----------



## erockg

jant71 said:


> Real world pics of this guy...


Sadly, no ETA yet


----------



## dweaver

No such luck here in Canada, yet... I was kind of dreading Amazon Days as I thought these might go on sale. But I am enjoying the hell out of them so I just need to suck it up LOL.

If I owned the MTW3 and really liked them I am not sure buying the Linkbuds S would be at the top of my to-do lost. But if I didn't love the MTW3 because I wanted a different more balanced signature the Linkbuds S would be a different direction for sure. Not sure how the other features of the MTW3 versus Linkbuds S stack up. I think the MTW3 has wireless charging and will at some point offer multi-point pairing both which do not exist on the Linkbuds S, so from that perspective I think the MTW3 wins. ANC on thes Linkbuds S are better than the old 1000XM3 model and a bit better than my AZ60, so might be a bit better than the MTW3 but hard to say. I do really like the 20 levels of ambient sound though and appreciate being able to set how I want the Linkbuds S to work for things like walking and jogging or being at home versus the office. Those functions all work very well and make it so I am not fiddling with the modes as much.


----------



## Caipirina (Jul 11, 2022)

Interesting looking cheapo with ANC and somewhat unique case over on amazon.de even has a 10% off voucher knocking it down to 14.39€ ! Reviews are mixed, but apparently they used to be 60€

One of the ads even mention AptX, but that is not listed anyplace else. I

I am tempted just because SO CHEAP, but I fear after initial minuscule dopamine rush of 'yey, new toy' they will end up in the shoe boxes with the others ... 
hmm .. anyone can tell me how to triple click for 2 seconds?


----------



## BooleanBones

erockg said:


> Very cool!  What tips have you had luck with?  I'm still rollin'.  Final E's seem to be good today.  Foam stock didn't work for me.  Azla, eh.  Going in circles.


I use the Spinfit CP100+ with them. Actually the only set I use them with


----------



## Caipirina

Prime Day has started here and I guess the best I've seen so far is the Bose QC earbuds for 149€ !!! oh and the Bose 700 over ear for 164€  

Sony Linkbuds S are 169 .. 

But nothing I am really interested in / excited about ...


----------



## Juturna (Jul 11, 2022)

Okay, so Prime Day here was a big bust. Literally either nothing good (imagine the cheapest soundpeats buds) with a decent discount, or just not super great deals on decent products (Linkbuds S for $169 instead of $199) for an example.
The German store had a lot deals on 1more, but nothing here in Sweden, and Prime doesn't seem to work in other countries but your own?

BUT, a big but. Another store here had the Soundcore Liberty 3 Pro for $79 (loosely converted from local currency) so I clicked home a pair of those bad boys. Seems like an amazing price for those!
I basically did a "pay in store" order so if I change my mind I'll just not pick them up and that's that, and the store is like 4 minutes from my door.


----------



## jant71 (Jul 11, 2022)

erockg said:


> Very cool!  What tips have you had luck with?  I'm still rollin'.  Final E's seem to be good today.  Foam stock didn't work for me.  Azla, eh.  Going in circles.


I forget since they are from years ago. Still a great set to have in the kit. Everyone should try the MEE 10 pair kit once...
https://www.amazon.com/Standard-Eartips-Silicone-Various-TIPSET10-M11-CL-MEE/dp/B07YZSL2L8/ref=sr_1_22?crid=34TCDVTKW0VTM&keywords=mee+audio+eartips&qid=1657575126&sprefix=mee+audio+eartips,aps,73&sr=8-22



Better than the cheap bi-flange, Senn style short bi-flanges may be a good one for TWS, narrow style(top middle 2) that is rare, and nice wide bore silicone. I actually need to get a new set of them. Should be re-introduced in here for TWS and just in general.


----------



## Markttp (Jul 11, 2022)

<duplicate>


----------



## Markttp (Jul 12, 2022)

A few deals on Amazon UK prime day (linkbuds s £130, B&O EQ £219, Shure TW2 with SE215 £148 or £115 for just adapters, 1MORE comfobuds mini £65, Nothing ear(1) £60).

Best one is Samsung galaxy buds pro for £99. In addition, you can claim £75 cashback from Samsung (if purchased today) in return for any old broken earphones or headphones (wire or wireless, any brand), making them just £24.

More than happy with the Grells I'm currently using but hard to say no at that price, even if I just try them and sell them.


----------



## FormalPotato

Hope someone can help me out. I have the opportunity of buying both the B&O EX and the Sennies MTW3 for the same price (insane). I know sound is subjective, but if I wanted a pair of earbuds with the bigger soubdstage between the two, which sould I choose? I honestly only care about the comfort (which will vastly differ from person to person) and sound.

I owned the B&O EQ and Sennies MTW2 before, and loved both of them, altho I thought that the TW2's could have sounded more "fun."


----------



## bladefd

Has anyone compared the sound quality between MTW2 and MTW3??


----------



## erockg

jant71 said:


> I forget since they are from years ago. Still a great set to have in the kit. Everyone should try the MEE 10 pair kit once...
> https://www.amazon.com/Standard-Eartips-Silicone-Various-TIPSET10-M11-CL-MEE/dp/B07YZSL2L8/ref=sr_1_22?crid=34TCDVTKW0VTM&keywords=mee+audio+eartips&qid=1657575126&sprefix=mee+audio+eartips,aps,73&sr=8-22
> 
> Better than the cheap bi-flange, Senn style short bi-flanges may be a good one for TWS, narrow style(top middle 2) that is rare, and nice wide bore silicone. I actually need to get a new set of them. Should be re-introduced in here for TWS and just in general.


I'll add them to my list.  Settled on some ePro Large tips for the IE600 today.  They fit nice.  Until the don't.


----------



## erockg

FormalPotato said:


> Hope someone can help me out. I have the opportunity of buying both the B&O EX and the Sennies MTW3 for the same price (insane). I know sound is subjective, but if I wanted a pair of earbuds with the bigger soubdstage between the two, which sould I choose? I honestly only care about the comfort (which will vastly differ from person to person) and sound.
> 
> I owned the B&O EQ and Sennies MTW2 before, and loved both of them, altho I thought that the TW2's could have sounded more "fun."


I very much prefer the sound of the EX, but the ANC and Transparency mode is much better on the MTW3.  I returned my MTW3 and have kept the EX since day one.  They also sound better than the EQs to my ears.


----------



## stacey

The ANC on the EX is terrible. Otherwise they are easily the best TWS I have ever owned. Great SQ and IP 57 so you can exercise with them without fear of ruining them.


----------



## webvan

Nice to see there's still a lot of action here! 
I'm less active as I have settled on the Earfun TWS, Free Pro 1 (customizable EQ with Oluv but poor ANC), Free Pro 2 (no custom EQ but good ANC)  anf Air Pro 2 (same tech as Free Pro 2 but Airpod style, easier to wear longer). Bomaker SiFI 2 for isolation when riding on my home trainer. 
Oh and Sabbat X12 for running of course!


----------



## Tenlow

FormalPotato said:


> Hope someone can help me out. I have the opportunity of buying both the B&O EX and the Sennies MTW3 for the same price (insane). I know sound is subjective, but if I wanted a pair of earbuds with the bigger soubdstage between the two, which sould I choose? I honestly only care about the comfort (which will vastly differ from person to person) and sound.
> 
> I owned the B&O EQ and Sennies MTW2 before, and loved both of them, altho I thought that the TW2's could have sounded more "fun."


For the same price?? 

EX of course! At least if sound quality is the main priority. ANC and transparency are both better on the MTW3, as stated here before. Call quality is a bit better on the EX as well but both are pretty good there. 

I've said it a couple of times here, I got my MTW3 for 187€ and the EX for the regular 399€ and in that case, the MTW3 are the much better deal or bang for the buck, imo. For the same price though, I'd definitely take the EX.


----------



## Tenlow

Ah well, that didn't take too long (again), did it? 

Beyerdynamic Free Byrd will arrive here today. Excited. Let's see how big of a problem their size will be and of course how they are going to sound. It will be a nice comparison to the MTW3 and the B&O EX as well.


----------



## erockg

Great deal ($249) on Amazon US for the  Bowers & Wilkins PI7 True Wireless in-Ear Headphones (Charcoal) https://a.co/d/iqZBwTK


----------



## erockg

Tenlow said:


> Ah well, that didn't take too long (again), did it?
> 
> Beyerdynamic Free Byrd will arrive here today. Excited. Let's see how big of a problem their size will be and of course how they are going to sound. It will be a nice comparison to the MTW3 and the B&O EX as well.


Nice!  Mine arrive Friday here in the US.


----------



## Tenlow

erockg said:


> Nice!  Mine arrive Friday here in the US.


I knew I could count on you, too


----------



## Caipirina

webvan said:


> Nice to see there's still a lot of action here!
> I'm less active as I have settled on the Earfun TWS, Free Pro 1 (customizable EQ with Oluv but poor ANC), Free Pro 2 (no custom EQ but good ANC)  anf Air Pro 2 (same tech as Free Pro 2 but Airpod style, easier to wear longer). Bomaker SiFI 2 for isolation when riding on my home trainer.
> Oh and Sabbat X12 for running of course!


The Fiil version of the earfun free pro 2 are still one of my favorites. Saw on prime day for 48€ for those still interested.  
As mentioned earlier, my Sabbat have become somewhat unreliable in terms of charging. I am running these days with the Bose QC, AirPods Pro, Beatsfit Pro …


----------



## FormalPotato

Ty guys for the feedback! I have chosen to buy the EX, unforunately, the last stock (Gold Tone) has been purchased. Good thing tho, they will be restocking on the next 2 days.


----------



## Ralphee (Jul 12, 2022)

Great news: I have just installed the latest firmware update (version 5.4.1.), and lo and behold, the MW08 now support Multipoint connections. I guess the same applies to MW08 Sport, too.

On the aural side, I’m not that satisfied, as bass became a tad boomier again, just as it was before the last firmware update. Hope M&D will correct this and pushes the bass “weight” again towards the lower frequencies with a future update…


----------



## webvan

Caipirina said:


> The Fiil version of the earfun free pro 2 are still one of my favorites. Saw on prime day for 48€ for those still interested.
> As mentioned earlier, my Sabbat have become somewhat unreliable in terms of charging. I am running these days with the Bose QC, AirPods Pro, Beatsfit Pro …


Not too annoyed by the inevitable "thump" or have you found a way around that with specific settings?


----------



## scubaphish

erockg said:


> Great deal ($249) on Amazon US for the  Bowers & Wilkins PI7 True Wireless in-Ear Headphones (Charcoal) https://a.co/d/iqZBwTK


They’re $236 today!


----------



## MattSPL

Firmware and app update for the 1MORE Evo.

10 band custom EQ now available


----------



## Caipirina

webvan said:


> Not too annoyed by the inevitable "thump" or have you found a way around that with specific settings?


i find that those 3 are rather timid on the thump ... also, for past pace runs I play 180bpm music to match my cadence


----------



## Caipirina

Two more findings for amazon / prime day ... check your other wishlist items, I just noticed the Soundcore Life / Dot A3i getting a 20% off voucher, unrelated to prime day ... 

Also, saw only on the front page after some scrolling: A lot of items in Amazon Warehouse get extra 20% off .. i.e. found Jabra Elite 7 Pro for below 100€ that way (did not buy though, I am being a good boy  ) ...


----------



## erockg

scubaphish said:


> They’re $236 today!


Lot's of great Prime Day deals on TWS I'm seeing.


----------



## dasadab

Just placed an order on Amazon for the new Bereydynamic Free Byrds--2 day delivery.  Looking forward to checking them out.


----------



## erockg

erockg said:


> Lot's of great Prime Day deals on TWS I'm seeing.


Sony XM4s are down to $198 https://www.amazon.com/Sony-WF-1000...jbGlja1JlZGlyZWN0JmRvTm90TG9nQ2xpY2s9dHJ1ZQ==


----------



## erockg

erockg said:


> Sony XM4s are down to $198 https://www.amazon.com/Sony-WF-1000XM4-Industry-Canceling-Headphones/dp/B094C4VDJZ/ref=sxin_16_pa_sp_search_thematic_sspa?content-id=amzn1.sym.b245e49f-68a4-4489-b1f9-81f4034255f5:amzn1.sym.b245e49f-68a4-4489-b1f9-81f4034255f5&crid=2G8BDWO42NRD4&cv_ct_cx=mw08+sport&keywords=mw08+sport&pd_rd_i=B094C4VDJZ&pd_rd_r=98b86220-56ee-44c5-ba7d-d6474cfcaaa3&pd_rd_w=BHwoN&pd_rd_wg=gVx1F&pf_rd_p=b245e49f-68a4-4489-b1f9-81f4034255f5&pf_rd_r=SJW7HY4E4HZZP2XYZY33&qid=1657635685&smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER&sprefix=mw08+sport,aps,140&sr=1-4-a73d1c8c-2fd2-4f19-aa41-2df022bcb241-spons&psc=1&spLa=ZW5jcnlwdGVkUXVhbGlmaWVyPUE1UlNJSUtGQ004RjYmZW5jcnlwdGVkSWQ9QTA1ODkxNTYyVlVKTEVKSVlEQ1BSJmVuY3J5cHRlZEFkSWQ9QTAxNjc5OTEzRzdGUTdGN1lNWElHJndpZGdldE5hbWU9c3Bfc2VhcmNoX3RoZW1hdGljJmFjdGlvbj1jbGlja1JlZGlyZWN0JmRvTm90TG9nQ2xpY2s9dHJ1ZQ==


B&O EQ too https://www.amazon.com/Bang-Olufsen...ix=marshall+true+wireles,aps,178&sr=8-13&th=1


----------



## uraklechko

Hi folks, have anyone compared Sony Linkbuds S with Technics AZ60 in terms of sound quality? I've been using the latter for 6 months and mostly satisfied, but seeing a couple of positive opinions on Sony's here, I'm wondered if it's worth trying them


----------



## Tenlow (Jul 12, 2022)

First impressions while unboxing the Beyerdynamic Free Byrd:


Completely environmentally friendly cardboard and paper packaging.
The buds are as expected pretty big.
The case is somewhat comparable in size to the EX’s case and feels relatively premium, although the lid has a little play from left to right on mine when closed.
They are a bit awkward to insert at first but once they’re in the sit fairly stable and comfortable (at least for now) – many tips to choose from as well (5 silicon pairs + 3 foam ones).
They get very loud, even louder than the EX and the MTW3 for me.
They seem V-shaped to me on first listen, with a very strong bass and elevated highs but somewhat subdued in the mids. Haven’t played much with them yet, though. Have to try the sound personalization a bit more, too. So far I’ve only used an old profile that was still in the app.
The touch controls work really well so far. I like the bigger touch surface on “big” buds, just like the MTW3 compared to the small round glass surface on the EX. There is a little feedback on each tap, almost feels haptic.
I get a very good seal with the included tips, have to use XL, though, which is a first 
ANC seems a bit better than on the EX but not as good as on the MTW3 so far. It is also just either "on" or "off" - nothing "adaptive" here. 
Battery percentages are shown/updated in 5% steps. The case's battery is not shown in the app, though.
There is no Equalizer but there are EQ presets: "Original", "Bass Boost", "Warm", "Smooth treble", V-Shape, "Speech", "Brilliance".
There is a "Low Latency Mode" in the app as well.
How to use each touch gesture is also shown in the app.
Single bud mode and auto pause work very well.
Battery life already seems pretty amazing, as expected. 
Had one call with them so far, no problems at all and the other side said I was very loud and clear. 


Early days of course. Will now test more and update here.


----------



## Sam L (Jul 12, 2022)

erockg said:


> The clarity on the IE600 is incredible.  I'm also amazed at how wide the soundstage is.  Might try them on my Fostex TM2C and see how fit etc. compares.  Been reading a ton about the IE600 and every kind thing I'm reading is correct.


are they readily available in the US now, or did you get them shipped from overseas?

**edit**
NM, I see them all over via US online retailers. I've been completely disengaged from reality dealing with startup woes and a sliding economy.


----------



## Caipirina

uraklechko said:


> Hi folks, have anyone compared Sony Linkbuds S with Technics AZ60 in terms of sound quality? I've been using the latter for 6 months and mostly satisfied, but seeing a couple of positive opinions on Sony's here, I'm wondered if it's worth trying them


I had the Linkbuds S briefly, I also own the AZ60 ... while there is a lot of good on the LiBu S (?), the Technics still sound better IMHO, hence I returned the Sonys


----------



## erockg

Sam L said:


> are they readily available in the US now, or did you get them shipped from overseas?
> 
> **edit**
> NM, I see them all over via US online retailers. I've been completely disengaged from reality dealing with startup woes and a sliding economy.


Grabbed them from Audio46 in NYC.  They seem to sell out most places as soon as they are in stock.  So far so good.


----------



## JBean (Jul 12, 2022)

uraklechko said:


> Hi folks, have anyone compared Sony Linkbuds S with Technics AZ60 in terms of sound quality? I've been using the latter for 6 months and mostly satisfied, but seeing a couple of positive opinions on Sony's here, I'm wondered if it's worth trying them


I have listened to both models on separate occasions, but not through a direct comparison.  Sound quality is great on both buds.  I ended up purchasing the Linkbuds S after listening to them in-store, and was quite surprised at how balanced and detailed they are, with an impressive soundstage given their size.  Off of memory, I don't recall the AZ60 sounding any worse, but I very much enjoyed the treble that the Linkbuds S offers, with plenty of clarity and 'bite' but not emphasized in a way that can become fatiguing. This is all based on EQ settings 'OFF", with LDAC and AAC codecs used (minimal audible differences between the two).  For reference, I also own the Lypertek Z7 and Sennheiser CX Plus.  In terms of sound, I prefer the Linkbuds S over the Sennheiser, but would put them on par with the Lypertek - a triple hybrid driver TWS iem that is highly regarded for it's sonic clarity and control. 

It doesn't hurt to give the Linkbuds S a shot! They also come with Bluetooth LE ready for when it is launched sometime in the near future, if that tickles your fancy. 

Hope this helps


----------



## dasadab

Tenlow said:


> First impressions while unboxing the Beyerdynamic Free Byrd:
> 
> 
> Completely environmentally friendly cardboard and paper packaging.
> ...


Thanks.  I hope you will consider reporting back after a bit more time listening, especially if you have any other buds to compare them to.


----------



## dweaver (Jul 12, 2022)

uraklechko said:


> Hi folks, have anyone compared Sony Linkbuds S with Technics AZ60 in terms of sound quality? I've been using the latter for 6 months and mostly satisfied, but seeing a couple of positive opinions on Sony's here, I'm wondered if it's worth trying them.


I own both products and currently prefer the Linkbuds S over the AZ60.

AZ60

Pros:

good multipoint connectivity
decent battery life
excellent fit kit with lots of tip sizes
premium build quality and materials
nice small case
decent large sound stage
Cons

a bit on the big side.
a bit uncomfortable at times.
bass has a bit to much bloom for my liking
midrange is slightly to warm for me
treble lacks a bit of detail and sparkle
occasional complaints from people when using these for phone calls in noisy places.
Linkbuds S

Pros

very small in ear making them the most comfortable TWS I have bought, so far no hot spots from them at all
quality of life features work well if you take the time to train and use them.
app offers good insight into usage.
nice small case
Sony hybrid tips are always super comfy
charging from case is pretty fast
extremely balanced signature that is not boring by being flat or too analytical. to my ears it has none of the sonic cons I listed for the AZ60. This is Sony's best bluetooth based headphone I have owned in regards to signature and balance in the past 4 years or more.
mic quality on these are better than any other TWS I have owned. My mother is a big gauge for the microphone if she complains about not being to hear me because of to much background noise I know I have an issue and so far she has never complained with these and if I ask her how I sound she mentions I sound good even if there is wind or a far amount of back ground noise.
Cons

battery life is definitely shorter than AZ60 but features like auto stop sensors, setting up ANC to not run for certain activities or location help improve this issue.
case battery life is shorter than AZ60
sound stage is slightly smaller than AZ60
So, if you struggle with the AZ60 being uncomfortable or have any issues with its signature like I have listed, or find the microphone not quite good enough, the Linkbuds S may be a good alternative. If you need multipoint pairing, a bit more battery life, or look at my sonic cons for the AZ60 and think to yourself  "he is so wrong!", then the Linkbuds S would not be a good option. In regards to 3D presentation I think they are very equal.


----------



## jmwant

Markttp said:


> A few deals on Amazon UK prime day (linkbuds s £130, B&O EQ £219, Shure TW2 with SE215 £148 or £115 for just adapters, 1MORE comfobuds mini £65, Nothing ear(1) £60).
> 
> Best one is Samsung galaxy buds pro for £99. In addition, you can claim £75 cashback from Samsung (if purchased today) in return for any old broken earphones or headphones (wire or wireless, any brand), making them just £24.
> 
> More than happy with the Grells I'm currently using but hard to say no at that price, even if I just try them and sell them.


Some great deals. The Galaxy Buds Pro 2 is coming next month. Maybe thats why the huge discount.


----------



## FYLegend

MattSPL said:


> Firmware and app update for the 1MORE Evo.
> 
> 10 band custom EQ now available


And also they now remember your ANC settings the next time you use the earbuds. It took them long enough to figure that out! My question now is whether transparency mode works with just one earbud.

A bit disappointed by Prime Deals as they're not offering free trial membership in Canada but rather 1$ for a 1-week trial. 1More EVO is 171$ CAD and Liberty 3 Pro is 140$!


----------



## jant71

I see the DUNU is up on ebay... https://www.ebay.com/itm/154972465894?hash=item2415142ae6:g:7O0AAOSwKaBibUsQ
At least they list the controls and they do everything on board including volume, ambient, and gaming mode.


----------



## erockg

jant71 said:


> I see the DUNU is up on ebay... https://www.ebay.com/itm/154972465894?hash=item2415142ae6:g:7O0AAOSwKaBibUsQ
> At least they list the controls and they do everything on board including volume, ambient, and gaming mode.


I just picked up a pair of the S6 IEMs.  Incredibly good, except my Fostex adapters have a static hiss with them in the left bud.  FiiO and Shure adapters work flawlessly with them.  Thinking it's the adapter and not the buds.  

Also, for all those who want to try the TWS IEM adapter world.  FiiO has a Prime Day sale on the UTWS3 adapters which work well:  https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B08R75X3BC/ref=crt_ewc_title_dp_1?ie=UTF8&smid=A22OHGD9UPLCGU&th=1


----------



## dweaver

I thought I would start up an impressions thread for the Linkbuds S. That way I won't inundate this thread with to many posts about them.


----------



## bladefd

dweaver said:


> I own both products and currently prefer the Linkbuds S over the AZ60.
> 
> AZ60
> 
> ...


Do Linkbuds S leak sound? I recall the regular Linkbuds were open.


----------



## dweaver

bladefd said:


> Do Linkbuds S leak sound? I recall the regular Linkbuds were open.


Nope they are more traditional so no leakage. They get the Linkbuds name because through tech features your supposed to not need to remove them and that sort of thing.


----------



## Tenlow (Jul 13, 2022)

Couple of Free Byrd updates after some usage time:
- They are bulky but still comfortable for me even over a longer listening period. I have big ears, mind you.

- They do stick out of the ears quite a bit which I usually don't like too much.

- There are voice prompts in English or German when you activate transparency mode or ANC which you cannot deactivate as of now, it seems. Doesn't bother me, though. That way at least it's easier to know which mode you just activated while listening to music. To be able to deactivate the voice prompts would still a nice "feature" for an upcoming firmware update.

- Early reviews mentioned a faint hissing sound when ANC is active. I don't hear that. It's basically silent for me, which is good. I hate ANC hiss 

- You cannot switch of ANC completely on the buds. It's only possible to switch between ANC and transparency mode on the buds. For ANC off, the app is needed. Another possible addition for a firmware update, imo. Neither the ANC level, nor the transparency level can be manually adjusted. They're just active or off.

- I do like the sound after (brain-) burn in and having listened to these for a couple of hours. The sound personalization does really make a difference for me. They sound really powerful and loud. I haven't used them beyond 60-65% volume yet.

- In single bud mode, each bud can only do what it would also do when both are used simultaneously, e.g. the right one can only raise the volume and not lower it somehow. Likewise, it can only skip tracks forward and not backwards in that scenario.

*Touch controls are like this: *

1 tap left or right --> play / pause
1 tap and hold left or right --> voice assistant
2 taps left or right --> ANC / Transparency toggle
2 taps and hold left --> lower volume
2 taps and hold right --> raise volume
3 taps right --> next track
3 taps left --> previous track

*For calls:*

1 tap left or right --> accept call
1 tap and hold left or right --> decline / end call.

So far, the Free Byrd seem really good, actually. Multipoint would still be nice, though.

Oh and one little extra info: Out of the box they have no tips attached at all. They're all in the box. So, people are "forced" to find ones that fit their ears 

Update: surprised by how good they sound with the included orange foam tips. I usually feel like foam does muddy the sound quite a bit for me (killing details in the highs and boosting bass) but they are very good sounding ones here. Try it out, in case you buy them!


----------



## bladefd

Snap, the linkbuds s are back to 158... Was 138 yesterday. Waited too long...


----------



## Tenlow (Jul 13, 2022)

And some final (for now at least ) findings on the Free Byrd:

- They don't have multipoint but at least switching between previously paired devices is easy. Just press connect on the new device - that's it. It will disconnect from the active device and connect to the other one directly.

- The audio personalization seems to only work on the device(s) where the app is installed. When I switched over to my MacBook, they sounded "normal" again.

- I was walking around town a little bit with them today and they handled wind very well. It does not get amplified or anything when the Free Byrds are in ANC mode. There is no specific wind noise reduction feature, but they don't seem to need it anyway.

- ANC is mediocre outside. I could still hear cars passing by quite easily. So they are no ANC king contenders.

- Transparency mode is also just average. Nowhere near as good as AirPods Pro or even MTW3 level.

- Had some more calls with them. They work very well, even outside. No problems there.

- Battery runtime _is officially_ great. They do charge slowly though, at least when they are completely empty (3:45h if case and both buds are depleted, which rarely happens, I guess, but still).

- USB-C port is at the back of the case where it belongs (Hi Sennheiser!)

- Fit is still very comfortable and stable especially. Could be problematic for small ears, though.

- Sound quality is pretty great still as well. I wouldn't say they are better than the EX as the tuning alone is so different. The EX are more "beautiful", "relaxed", "melodical", and "confident" sounding, if that makes any sense. The Free Byrds are more "in your face", "bassy"and "forward" sounding. I would still say that the mids are taken back a bit while the upper mids and highs are more prominent. That can be a little fatiguing on loud volume levels with some recordings but they are a lot of fun and still have a great soundstage, great instrument separation and positioning. It feels a bit 3-dimensional at times, especially with the sound personalization turned on. And, again, they can get incredibly loud.

- The Bluetooth connection so far has really been rock solid. Have not yet experienced one hiccup or dropout yet. Range is very good as well. They did well on my usual Bluetooth range test, better than the MTW3 and the EX.

All things considered, this really is a very solid first TWS from Beyerdynamic at a fair an reasonable price point. The downsides remain the size of the buds and no multipoint support yet (however many brands seem to implement that via firmware these days later down the road, so maybe Beyer will as well), as well as no user customizable touch controls (I would change "next track" to two taps instead of toggling ANC with that e.g.) but controls do work well generally. That and the music doesn't pause when toggling transparency mode (like on the MTW3 e.g.).

ANC and transparency mode remain in the neutral part of the "review". Both could definitely be better.

And on the plus side of things we have: sound quality with sound personalization, battery life, fit, volume, call quality, bluetooth connection/and a huge variety of tips.


----------



## cresny

I dusted off my 1.5 year-old Devialet Gemini this morning. Though they still sound great, the right bud no longer holds much of a charge. I called Devialet and they are replacing it without issue. I expected I'd need to use my "Devialet Care", but this was just standard 2-year warranty service and they will transfer the Devialet Care to the replacement. I'm not sure I ever had better customer service!


----------



## Caipirina

bladefd said:


> Snap, the linkbuds s are back to 158... Was 138 yesterday. Waited too long...


141.99 € on amazon DE prime deal right now ...  for the next few hours ...


----------



## erockg

cresny said:


> I dusted off my 1.5 year-old Devialet Gemini this morning. Though they still sound great, the right bud no longer holds much of a charge. I called Devialet and they are replacing it without issue. I expected I'd need to use my "Devialet Care", but this was just standard 2-year warranty service and they will transfer the Devialet Care to the replacement. I'm not sure I ever had better customer service!


Have mine here in front of me.  Every time I think about selling them (overstock here), I pop them in and go hmmm these sound awesome and the ANC is great!


----------



## Juturna

Okay, so I couldn't help myself, so I picked up the Soundcore Liberty 3 Pros today, and my first verdict (without even enabling LDAC yet): damn what a bargain for $79, I'll tell you all that!

Sure, without EQ they're kinda doodoo, but using Wavelet I really feel like these sound pretty fantastic, and I know that I haven't even dialed them in 100% to what I want yet, but despite that... still great! 
I was worried that this would be another Devialet Gemini scenario for me where there was no way to make the mids sound anything other than extremely unnatural and scooped out even with EQ... fortunately, I think these sound about 5x better than the Devialets overall. I still feel like I'm tripping when I hear people on here giving praise to them... they are probably one of my least favorite TWS buds that I've ever used, without a doubt the most disappointing purchase if you account for price, at least.

I was worried, as someone who's treble sensitive and don't generally like when a bud is too V-shaped.
With the Devialets I literally can't get the sibilance to go away, here it was no worries at all. Some preset EQs in the soundcore app were pretty awful and hurt my ears but it was easy to get rid of here. 

The separation and sound stage seems pretty damn good for a TWS here, if not the best at least close to the best i've heard. 

ANC is decent, maybe even good. But it doesn't impress me that much either. 

The negatives so far: 
- They are NOT pretty. 
- The wingtips I put on kept them SOLID as heck in my ears, I think they would stay put in a tornado, but my outer ear hurts a lot after using the biggest wingtip... will try to go back to the ones that came preinstalled and see if that helps. 
- They don't sound effortlessly great like the Galaxy Buds Pro where the default tuning is top notch, and they (the L3P) might lack a little warmth in the mids/vocals, but it's not nearly as "metallic" or artificial as reviews have made me think, even if I certainly could imagine them sounding even better. 
- Volume seems somewhat low in comparison to the GBPs, where I can listen to the GBP at around 50-60%, these seem like I need to put them at 65-75% for the same volume, not terrible by any means and I can still get uncomfortably loud if I want to.


----------



## assassin10000 (Jul 13, 2022)

The linkbuds showed up this morning. Charged them, updated and now using.

A pretty good fit, better and more stable for me than the buds live.

They do have decent mids and highs, not overdone and not dark either. Unfortunately these lack way more bass/sub-bass than I was expecting and I wasn't expecting much. Using them between +5 to +10 on clear bass.


Granted the earbuds I normally use have excellent sub-bass extension (custom diy) and the buds live at least have some.

Edit: for reference, my preferred sound signature is DF neutral (etymotic like).


----------



## assassin10000

A quick listen to a frequency sweep confirms my initial thought on the bass. At my normal listening volume (low to med) bass starts being audible around 75-80hz and climbs slowly until 150-160hz where it picks up and levels off in the 3-400hz range.

Not to say these are bad sounding. Just don't expect them to do 100% justice to anything with deeper bass notes/lines.


----------



## ElKabong

> Nice heads up on the Fiio TWS Adapters
> 
> 
> erockg said:
> ...


----------



## jant71 (Jul 13, 2022)

Bear in mind him saying among the best he's heard is not any of the real top SQ stuff. So don't be thinking Noble, EX, Devialet kinda stuff.


----------



## dweaver

assassin10000 said:


> A quick listen to a frequency sweep confirms my initial thought on the bass. At my normal listening volume (low to med) bass starts being audible around 75-80hz and climbs slowly until 150-160hz where it picks up and levels off in the 3-400hz range.
> 
> Not to say these are bad sounding. Just don't expect them to do 100% justice to anything with deeper bass notes/lines.


Are these the Line nkbuds (open donut) or the Linkbuds S (new closed ANC model)?


----------



## cresny

Getting late in the game, but Shure TWS adapters are $150 for Prime day.  https://a.co/d/0O4UjKi


----------



## Ceeluh7 (Jul 13, 2022)

Juturna said:


> Okay, so I couldn't help myself, so I picked up the Soundcore Liberty 3 Pros today, and my first verdict (without even enabling LDAC yet): damn what a bargain for $79, I'll tell you all that!
> 
> Sure, without EQ they're kinda doodoo, but using Wavelet I really feel like these sound pretty fantastic, and I know that I haven't even dialed them in 100% to what I want yet, but despite that... still great!
> I was worried that this would be another Devialet Gemini scenario for me where there was no way to make the mids sound anything other than extremely unnatural and scooped out even with EQ... fortunately, I think these sound about 5x better than the Devialets overall. I still feel like I'm tripping when I hear people on here giving praise to them... they are probably one of my least favorite TWS buds that I've ever used, without a doubt the most disappointing purchase if you account for price, at least.
> ...


Without question the L3P can be eq'd to be quite awesome man. Also, I didn't dig the Gemini that much either. Not bad by any means but when I got them they were $300. That is a $130 Earbud to me. Just over priced. I had to eq them as well quite a bit. Though many tws I have to do the same. I know alot of folks really enjoy the gemini and I can see why but they just didn't agree with me I suppose. The L3P on the other hand can handle any amount of eq you throw at them without much distortion and have fantastic clarity. They aren't perfect either but... I agree


----------



## assassin10000

dweaver said:


> Are these the Line nkbuds (open donut) or the Linkbuds S (new closed ANC model)?


1st linkbuds, the open donut earbud ones.


----------



## Juturna

Ceeluh7 said:


> Without question the L3P can be eq'd to be quite awesome man. Also, I didn't dig the Gemini that much either. Not bad by any means but when I got them they were $300. That is a $130 Earbud to me. Just over priced. I had to eq them as well quite a bit. Though many tws I have to do the same. I know alot of folks really enjoy the gemini and I can see why but they just didn't agree with me I suppose. The L3P on the other hand can handle any amount of eq you throw at them without much distortion and have fantastic clarity. They aren't perfect either but... I agree


Yeah, agreed 100%. I also paid over $300 (okay, I didn't, it was a gift... but my point still stands) and I also think it sounds more in line with a $130 earbud, and it definitely feels that way when you're looking at their app and overall quality and comfort of the buds. 
I'm not 100% sure, but I think the L3P might be my favorite earbuds right now, they don't have the effortless tuning of the GBPs, but there's something about the sound that's just so "big" and three-dimensional, there is actual DEPTH to the sound which I rarely hear from TWS's. 

I paid $79 for them brand spanking new, and I would say that I could pay $200+ for them and still think they were excellent, I prefer them to the Technics AZ60 by quite a bit, for an example, but yeah perfect they are not... but I don't think I could say that for any TWS so far. 

Still thinking of getting the Sony Linkbuds S later this month though, we'll see if I prefer them to the L3Ps. 

Also, does anyone think we're getting a Liberty 4 Pro soon with all the discounts we've seen on the 3s? Sure Soundcore is usually pretty good at giving discounts but it's been A LOT lower than it's been previously, like getting pretty much a 50% discount here.


----------



## subguy812 (Jul 14, 2022)

I scored an inexpensive set of Sony XM4's. I have been playing with the app and comparing them to the B&O EX. Interesting comparison.

What tips do folks use on their XM4? I was curious if there is a consensus? I realized this is subjective but thought maybe there was a consensus after all of the time these have been on the market. Looking to maintain sound quality and at least provide a great seal.
​


----------



## Ultrainferno

In our latest article, we look at the Noble Falcon ANC. Find out how the Noble Falcon ANC performs, sounds and compares, now on Headfonia! An article by @Virtu Fortuna 

https://www.headfonia.com/noble-falcon-anc-review/


----------



## jant71 (Jul 14, 2022)

https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/sleeper-tws-your-ultimate-sleep-aid-anc-earbuds#/

I had a review sample of the Sleeper wired model. I said the all one piece tip included one size fits all wasn't the best idea. I wanted to change the size of the tip it had. So, perhaps they did a better job on the sizing here but it is still one size to fit all. Would be nice to have at least one Qualcomm codec for the price even if only aptX. Also 4 and 5 taps to do things is not the most convenient.

Should be easier to see the things that might scare people away. You are making a TWS and you could make it really appeal or you can do things to things in a way to keep them just on the other side of the fence where they look but just don't commit. Just a bit more and I would grab one.


----------



## Tenlow

subguy812 said:


> I scored an inexpensive set of Sony XM4's. I have been playing with the app and comparing them to the B&O EX. Interesting comparison.
> 
> What tips do folks use on their XM4? I was curious if there is a consensus? I realized this is subjective but thought maybe there was a consensus after all of the time these have been on the market. Looking to maintain sound quality and at least provide a great seal.
> ​


In my time with the XM4, I honestly just used the stock foam ones they come with and messed around with the EQ a bit. Other tips may sound a bit better, however I could never achieve a similar isolation level than with the stock tips.


----------



## jant71

Urbanista Seoul... https://urbanista.com/en-us/products/seoul







Another one tuned by Grell:
"Axel Grell, an acoustic engineer who developed the sound design, commented, "By delicately expressing even the finest sounds, we have succeeded in creating a sense of realism in images and games." The clear and easy-to-listen sound has realized a highly immersive sound signature." 

Something like this but better would be great. Slim case and nice ergonomic shape. Just up the audio, codecs, mics, and features some more and maybe nicer quality materials and double the $89 price. Go all the way with it.


----------



## FullCircle (Jul 14, 2022)

erockg said:


> Well, you def do not look like a mom.  But c'mon, you know what I mean.  Noble isn't Sony or some conglomerate and you do things better on a smaller scale.  All compliments.  *Now get us those FOKUS ANC buds!*



*The Noble H-ANC*


https://nobleaudio.com/products/fokus-h-anc

Two versions
The only difference between the two is the color scheme


----------



## jant71

Purple looks good. Would only be SBC for me though since it is Airoha.


----------



## FullCircle

jant71 said:


> Purple looks good. Would only be SBC for me though since it is Airoha.



The purple was a gamble and to our surprise, we found it to be in high demand among our distributors.
The color tones are purple + grey


----------



## erockg

FullCircle said:


> https://nobleaudio.com/products/fokus-h-anc
> 
> Two versions
> The only difference between the two is the color scheme


Excellent!  Thanks Jim.  New site is much better.  

Ugh, Blue is sold out.


----------



## dweaver

Those look pretty darn sharp in both colors! People are funny about the color purple. I have a purple accented case for my phone and have had 1 person question me hard about that being OK since I am male and all LOL. Good gamble on your part . Those would match pretty darn close for me . Will have to wait and see how easy these become available in Canada. Battery life looks very good. The features also all look good from the app functionality to the driver configuration.

Looks like it time I gave Noble Audio a try!


----------



## jant71

erockg said:


> Excellent!  Thanks Jim.  New site is much better.
> 
> Ugh, Blue is sold out.


So get the nicer color.


----------



## erockg

jant71 said:


> So get the nicer color.


I'm evil.  Usually only wear black and blue.  You'll throw off my color scheme if I put in the purple.  People will talk.


----------



## erockg

jant71 said:


> So get the nicer color.





erockg said:


> I'm evil.  Usually only wear black and blue.  You'll throw off my color scheme if I put in the purple.  People will talk.


I like how they snuck a second driver in them.


----------



## helmutcheese

Strange as that exact BT chipset comes up as BT 5.0 in Google, so they claim BT 5.2 but only with SBC/ACC codecs?


----------



## FullCircle (Jul 14, 2022)

dweaver said:


> Those look pretty darn sharp in both colors! People are funny about the color purple. I have a purple accented case for my phone and have had 1 person question me hard about that being OK since I am male and all LOL. Good gamble on your part . Those would match pretty darn close for me . Will have to wait and see how easy these become available in Canada. Battery life looks very good. The features also all look good from the app functionality to the driver configuration.
> 
> Looks like it time I gave Noble Audio a try!



Regarding the battery
The charge case is not in "always searching mode" - just like the FoKus Pro.  Due to this the battery life on the charge case is surprisingly long.


----------



## BooleanBones

subguy812 said:


> I scored an inexpensive set of Sony XM4's. I have been playing with the app and comparing them to the B&O EX. Interesting comparison.
> 
> What tips do folks use on their XM4? I was curious if there is a consensus? I realized this is subjective but thought maybe there was a consensus after all of the time these have been on the market. Looking to maintain sound quality and at least provide a great seal.
> ​


Final Type E TWS tips for me.


----------



## erockg

New Bowers & Wilkins PI7 S2 coming.  SAR-Test-Report-5982998


----------



## jant71 (Jul 14, 2022)

erockg said:


> New Bowers & Wilkins PI7 S2 coming.  SAR-Test-Report-5982998



Have to rain on your parade a bit....



If true they may just be correcting the shortcomings in the first gen.


----------



## erockg

jant71 said:


> Have to rain on your parade a bit....
> 
> If true they just correcting the shortcomings in the first gen.


I know.  I'll take it.  Love the sound.  I have the PX7 S2 and although incremental, they did a great job with the tweaks.  I'll buy the PI7 S2 and report back as always


----------



## bladefd

The Falcon H-ANC looks very nice (the blue). Decent specs, good price. I look forward to reading reviews before considering buying!


----------



## dasadab

Beyerdynamic Free Byrd early impressions:  Got mine on a 2 day Amazon delivery.  Downloaded new firmware and app.  Tried the included foam tips.  Walked around for an hour outside.  Didn't really have a chance to test the ANC.  
I found the fit to be comfortable, much better comfort for me than the XM4s.  Sound:  I was pleasantly surprised.  I have tried the XM4s, the Bowers & Wilkins PI7, and the Technics AZ60.  I thought the Byrds were at least equal to the P17s, but this is from memory.  I thought they were much more enjoyable, precise, and refined than the Sonys.  The Technics sounded fine, but not good enough to make me want to keep them.  I used the Byrd's ear test setting without any further equalization.  I thought the separation was excellent.  The bass was strong, but not overpowering.  There was clarity between the different instruments and vocals--in other words not muddy in the least.  They sounded spacious and clean.  There was a slight harshness on the upper trebles on some tracks, but this could be easily addressed with equalization.  It was also pretty tract specific--only noticed it rarely.  I would add that the quality of the recordings were easily noticeable. Maybe this is a good indication of the quality of the sound--they don't hide bad stuff.  

I kept my iPhone in my back pocket had had zero dropouts.  I returned the P17s because they were not able to maintain a solid BT connection.  

All and all, they are keepers.  I'll add as a final note that the case is easily pocketable.  Oh, they are not small, but the fit causes them to angle out a bit and I thought they looked and fit nice.  They were stable throughout the walk.


----------



## Tenlow

dasadab said:


> Beyerdynamic Free Byrd early impressions:  Got mine on a 2 day Amazon delivery.  Downloaded new firmware and app.  Tried the included foam tips.  Walked around for an hour outside.  Didn't really have a chance to test the ANC.
> I found the fit to be comfortable, much better comfort for me than the XM4s.  Sound:  I was pleasantly surprised.  I have tried the XM4s, the Bowers & Wilkins PI7, and the Technics AZ60.  I thought the Byrds were at least equal to the P17s, but this is from memory.  I thought they were much more enjoyable, precise, and refined than the Sonys.  The Technics sounded fine, but not good enough to make me want to keep them.  I used the Byrd's ear test setting without any further equalization.  I thought the separation was excellent.  The bass was strong, but not overpowering.  There was clarity between the different instruments and vocals--in other words not muddy in the least.  They sounded spacious and clean.  There was a slight harshness on the upper trebles on some tracks, but this could be easily addressed with equalization.  It was also pretty tract specific--only noticed it rarely.  I would add that the quality of the recordings were easily noticeable. Maybe this is a good indication of the quality of the sound--they don't hide bad stuff.
> 
> I kept my iPhone in my back pocket had had zero dropouts.  I returned the P17s because they were not able to maintain a solid BT connection.
> ...


Agree with all of this and it matches what I think about them well. Big but still comfortable, great spacious and detailed sound with a thunderous bass at times that doesn't overpower though and volume aplenty. Can be slightly harsh at higher volumes with certain tracks. The connection is definitely very stable, yes. It doesn't feel like a first gen and buggy product at all - they've taken their time, mind you.

They are keepers for me as well!


----------



## Tenlow

erockg said:


> New Bowers & Wilkins PI7 S2 coming.  SAR-Test-Report-5982998


So that's their first PI7 firmware update then, great 

I won't be buying these after their disappointing "care" for the PI7 and a generally sub par experience with them on iOS.

That said, I would still be interested to read more on them, sure


----------



## james444 (Jul 15, 2022)

assassin10000 said:


> The linkbuds showed up this morning. Charged them, updated and now using.
> 
> A pretty good fit, better and more stable for me than the buds live.
> 
> ...





assassin10000 said:


> A quick listen to a frequency sweep confirms my initial thought on the bass. At my normal listening volume (low to med) bass starts being audible around 75-80hz and climbs slowly until 150-160hz where it picks up and levels off in the 3-400hz range.
> 
> Not to say these are bad sounding. Just don't expect them to do 100% justice to anything with deeper bass notes/lines.



That's exactly what I was expecting after reading the Soundguys review. And the reason why I took a pass on the LinkBuds WF-L900.
https://www.soundguys.com/sony-linkbuds-wf-l900-review-67631/

If you prefer DF-neutral (and can live with unfortunately very sensitive touch controls), I can recommend these:
https://www.amazon.co.jp/-/en/gp/product/B09M3MK1QG/

They look like cheap Airpods 3 knockoffs, but imo run rings around the original Airpods 3 in terms of sound quality.

Please note that like with any open earbuds, bass will of course depend on fit, i.e. the distance from nozzle opening to your ear canal (aka: proximity effect). With an optimum fit (nozzle opening very close to ear canal, yet still without IEM-like seal), I'm able to get a frequency response like this, which I consider pretty awesome:

 (DF-compensated)


----------



## darveniza

erockg said:


> New Bowers & Wilkins PI7 S2 coming.  SAR-Test-Report-5982998


These ???

https://www.techradar.com/reviews/bowers-and-wilkins-px7-s2


----------



## Tenlow

darveniza said:


> These ???
> 
> https://www.techradar.com/reviews/bowers-and-wilkins-px7-s2


No, these are the PX7 S2, so the over ears.

Bis link was about the possible PI7 S2, so the in ear true wireless ones.


----------



## erockg

darveniza said:


> These ???
> 
> https://www.techradar.com/reviews/bowers-and-wilkins-px7-s2


Yes, 


Tenlow said:


> No, these are the PX7 S2, so the over ears.
> 
> Bis link was about the possible PI7 S2, so the in ear true wireless ones.


Correct!  I’ll get the buds.  If anything for the battery ride and connection.  I’ll flip the first gen on eBay.  Got them for a steal.  Shouldn’t take too much of a hit.

I don’t agree with everything that Techradar article says about the PX7 S2.  I like them much better than the XM5 and MW75, which are gorgeous but do not sound as good.  Waaaaay overpriced too.  Sent them back.  Hopefully, B&W squashed the bugs with this incremental upgrade 🤘


----------



## BooleanBones

erockg said:


> Yes,
> 
> Correct!  I’ll get the buds.  If anything for the battery ride and connection.  I’ll flip the first gen on eBay.  Got them for a steal.  Shouldn’t take too much of a hit.
> 
> I don’t agree with everything that Techradar article says about the PX7 S2.  I like them much better than the XM5 and MW75, which are gorgeous but do not sound as good.  Waaaaay overpriced too.  Sent them back.  Hopefully, B&W squashed the bugs with this incremental upgrade 🤘


They will be coming out with a higher grade flagship this fall. Something else for you to buy


----------



## erockg

BooleanBones said:


> They will be coming out with a higher grade flagship this fall. Something else for you to buy


Duh.  eBay is my best friend.  Can’t wait!  🎉🎊🍾.  Can you tell I’m WFH again?  Sigh…


----------



## erockg

Trying out the Adidas FWD-02 Sport.  Overpriced, but sound decent.  Made by Zound Industries.  Same company that makes the Marshall TWS buds.  They used the same form factor as the Marshall Mode II which I loved but had horrible outdoor by connection.  The Adidas have zero issues and I’ve been sleeping with them with no issues.  Strange case.  Lid magnetically attaches and the top is a material that helps dry them after a workout.  Odd choices, but keeps the case super slim.  App is simple but way better than the Marshall app.  Digging the bass punch.  No volume controls, ANC or wireless charging . Transparency mode is okay.  Works, but not the best I’ve heard.  Fit is perfect and very comfortable.  Buds are tiny.


----------



## erockg (Jul 15, 2022)

Ultimate Ears has something new coming.  Can't find anything more on them: https://ultimateears.attn.tv/p/tzW/landing-page?utm_source=klaviyo&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=071422 DROPS Teaser - FITS Purchasers (WpfFDJ)&utm_term=fits_purchasers&utm_content=drops_teaser&_kx=0_uqtyS43qWpPgL5C7MIkPtv-BwD1F1ALtp--qcS2LA=.HskQ5V


----------



## Caipirina

Got the Soundcore Life A3i / Dot 3i when they were 48€ .. and there's a lot to like about them: The ANC is pretty good when one gets a good seal (got lucky in this regard), they fit very well, guess some ppl can even side sleep with them. I LOVE physical buttons and these work like a charm and are fully mapable to whatever you feel like. There's even volume .. there's an option to turn off single click (for those who fidget too much), but thanks to the placement of the button I have no trouble adjusting fit during runs ... 7h battery with ANC on / 9h off ... that;s plenty

Now, here is a tricky bit .. they sound pretty good out of the box .. they have a plethora of EQ presets + custom ... but I recommend checking out Scarbir's review as our man Bart has discovered that the 'treble is hidden' and he provides an EQ setting that really makes those buds shine.
These might be my new favorite budget buds together with the Fiil T2 Pro


----------



## erockg

The addiction continues...  

Just got the Beyerdynamic Free Byrd TWS.  More soon, but wow, the bar was low, but these are really nice.  Testing shall commence in 3, 2...


----------



## jant71 (Jul 15, 2022)

erockg said:


> The addiction continues...
> 
> Just got the Beyerdynamic Free Byrd TWS.  More soon, but wow, the bar was low, but these are really nice.  Testing shall commence in 3, 2...



What? It's been two hours already!  Actually don't ya think the bar should be higher than low for someone like Beyer? They did take their time as well so not like they rushed in. Think we should expect a fairly solid effort.


----------



## erockg

jant71 said:


> What? It's been two hours already!  Actually don't ya think the bar should be high for someone like Beyer? They did take their time as well so not like they rushed in. Think we should expect a fairly solid effort.


They truly are worth the price so far.  Been using them all afternoon for music and Zoom calls.


----------



## C_Lindbergh

Can you return TWS/earbuds when you buy directly from Beyerdynamic? And what would the cost be of returing? Can't find the Free Byrd on Amazon I'm afraid. 

Also I assume there's no option to pause music when enabling transparency mode like on the Sennheiser/Technics?


----------



## erockg (Jul 15, 2022)

C_Lindbergh said:


> Can you return TWS/earbuds when you buy directly from Beyerdynamic? And what would the cost be of returing? Can't find the Free Byrd on Amazon I'm afraid.
> 
> Also I assume there's no option to pause music when enabling transparency mode like on the Sennheiser/Technics?


I'm sure they have a return policy.  No idea what the cost is.  They're on Amazon US.  Check the Beyerdynamic site, maybe shoot them an email.  I did a while back before launch and they were receptive.  No, pause does not enable transparency mode.  I wish it did!  Fav feature of the Sennies and the Shure TW2 adapters.


----------



## Caipirina

C_Lindbergh said:


> Can you return TWS/earbuds when you buy directly from Beyerdynamic? And what would the cost be of returing? Can't find the Free Byrd on Amazon I'm afraid.
> 
> Also I assume there's no option to pause music when enabling transparency mode like on the Sennheiser/Technics?


can you do amazon.de?   They weren't on there for a long while, but they are now ... https://amzn.eu/d/dNi5uPd
 (just notice that link amazon generates says .eu , so it might direct to yours? )


----------



## Juturna

Caipirina said:


> can you do amazon.de?   They weren't on there for a long while, but they are now ... https://amzn.eu/d/dNi5uPd
> (just notice that link amazon generates says .eu , so it might direct to yours? )


I'm not the original poster, but I can confirm that they're not available on the Swedish Amazon Store but ordering from Amazon.de has worked excellent when I've ordered anything, and it usually ends up being cheaper (or at least the same price with shipping included) than ordering from the Swedish store due to Amazon Germany often having discount coupons and deals that we never really have here in Sweden.


----------



## erockg

As some of you know, I'm not a huge Chi-fi TWS guy and I always spend too much on buds.  It's an addiction.  But, this Prime Day, I couldn't resist picking up the 1More EVO buds for $118.  I was very interested in the dual driver setup.  These have a DD as well as a BA.  Got them last night.  The unboxing was nice.  Buds are pretty, case is small and metal with wireless charging.  At first, sound was awful to my ears.  I was really annoyed.  Couldn't get a good EQ setting and the app isn't stellar.  Literally some formatting errors when you open the presets in the app.  They need to update.  That said, I stayed patient and decided to give SoundID a shot.  SoundID is also used with the Grell TWS so I've had experience with it.  1More integrated SoundID into their app.  I set that up, ran the tests and that’s when the EVO started to truly shine.  Sound opened up wide and the bass punch is great for the metal I live for.  All in all, if you can get these for cheap, I say give them a shot.  They have volume controls, ANC is pretty damn good for a bud this cheap.  I mean, I was stunned that the ANC was so good for my use.  With a good seal, they knocked out all the fans, hums, traffic, whatever in my home.  I heard nothing.  Wireless charging, auto pause and transparency mode included.  I'm waiting for something to go wrong with them so I'll report back if they fail me.


----------



## Spidermanxd

erockg said:


> As some of you know, I'm not a huge Chi-fi TWS guy and I always spend too much on buds.  It's an addiction.  But, this Prime Day, I couldn't resist picking up the 1More EVO buds for $118.  I was very interested in the dual driver setup.  These have a DD as well as a BA.  Got them last night.  The unboxing was nice.  Buds are pretty, case is small and metal with wireless charging.  At first, sound was awful to my ears.  I was really annoyed.  Couldn't get a good EQ setting and the app isn't stellar.  Literally some formatting errors when you open the presets in the app.  They need to update.  That said, I stayed patient and decided to give SoundID a shot.  SoundID is also used with the Grell TWS so I've had experience with it.  1More integrated SoundID into their app.  I set that up, ran the tests and that’s when the EVO started to truly shine.  Sound opened up wide and the bass punch is great for the metal I live for.  All in all, if you can get these for cheap, I say give them a shot.  They have volume controls, ANC is pretty damn good for a bud this cheap.  I mean, I was stunned that the ANC was so good for my use.  With a good seal, they knocked out all the fans, hums, traffic, whatever in my home.  I heard nothing.  Wireless charging, auto pause and transparency mode included.  I'm waiting for something to go wrong with them so I'll report back if they fail me.


I guess you do like to pay too much for buds, same pair on ebay for $84 BRAND NEW


----------



## erockg

Spidermanxd said:


> I guess you do like to pay too much for buds, same pair on ebay for $84 BRAND NEW


Great!  What site?  eBay?  If so, that Seller doesn't accept returns.  I do Amazon 90% of the time for the return policy.  100% fine with the extra cost.  But thanks for the heads up.


----------



## jant71

1More is a big brand. My Soundmagic is Chi-Fi. Those Tin Buds 3 are Chi-Fi. 1More have headquarters in the U.S., U.K., and China and are worth a half a billion.  Besides having apps, auto pause sensors, ambient, ANC, and give firmware updates. Would Chi-Fi do those things???


----------



## erockg

jant71 said:


> 1More is a big brand. My Soundmagic is Chi-Fi. Those Tin Buds 3 are Chi-Fi. 1More have headquarters in the U.S., U.K., and China and are worth a half a billion.  Besides having apps, auto pause sensors, ambient, ANC, and give firmware updates. Would Chi-Fi do those things???


C'maaaahn, you know what I mean @jant71!  1More is in San Diego out here in CA and super fast with replacements if you buy from their dealers.


----------



## jant71

erockg said:


> C'maaaahn, you know what I mean @jant71!  1More is in San Diego out here in CA and super fast with replacements if you buy from their dealers.


I'm just nitpickin' ya. Just busting .


----------



## erockg

jant71 said:


> I'm just nitpickin' ya. Just busting .


You know I know.


----------



## Tenlow

erockg said:


> They truly are worth the price so far.  Been using them all afternoon for music and Zoom calls.


So what about the erockg review of these then? "Truly worth the prize so far" doesn't satisfy this man enough here


----------



## Tenlow

The Free Byrd are being heavily tested today. 

Left the house two hours ago and started using them. Have been using them constantly so far in public transport, while walking to the main bus station and will now use them for an almost 5 hour bus drive to Munich. 

So far, after two hours, still very comfortable, not a single connection dropout, ANC on and fairly loud volume (around 65%) and still 80% battery left. 

Pretty great.


----------



## March78 (Jul 17, 2022)

How do the Free Byrds compare with the MTW3 and Beoplay EX? Very interested to hear your thoughts as I have both of those.

Personally I find the sound of the EX much better than MTW3, more detailed, better vocals and just more enjoyable. Also better comfort.
Only thing is the noise cancelling of the EX is almost useless and that of the MTW3 pretty good.

Very interested to hear how the Free Byrds compare 🙂


----------



## jmwant

erockg said:


> As some of you know, I'm not a huge Chi-fi TWS guy and I always spend too much on buds.  It's an addiction.  But, this Prime Day, I couldn't resist picking up the 1More EVO buds for $118.  I was very interested in the dual driver setup.  These have a DD as well as a BA.  Got them last night.  The unboxing was nice.  Buds are pretty, case is small and metal with wireless charging.  At first, sound was awful to my ears.  I was really annoyed.  Couldn't get a good EQ setting and the app isn't stellar.  Literally some formatting errors when you open the presets in the app.  They need to update.  That said, I stayed patient and decided to give SoundID a shot.  SoundID is also used with the Grell TWS so I've had experience with it.  1More integrated SoundID into their app.  I set that up, ran the tests and that’s when the EVO started to truly shine.  Sound opened up wide and the bass punch is great for the metal I live for.  All in all, if you can get these for cheap, I say give them a shot.  They have volume controls, ANC is pretty damn good for a bud this cheap.  I mean, I was stunned that the ANC was so good for my use.  With a good seal, they knocked out all the fans, hums, traffic, whatever in my home.  I heard nothing.  Wireless charging, auto pause and transparency mode included.  I'm waiting for something to go wrong with them so I'll report back if they fail me.


Thanks for your impressions!


----------



## Tenlow

March78 said:


> How do the Free Byrds compare with the MTW3 and Beoplay EX? Very interested to hear your thoughts as I have both of those.
> 
> Personally I find the sound of the EX much better than MTW3, more detailed, better vocals and just more enjoyable. Also better comfort.
> Only thing is the noise cancelling of the EX is almost useless and that of the MTW3 pretty good.
> ...


I would agree on your ANC observations. The Free Byrd ANC also is pretty weak, honestly. The MTW3 is better there without a doubt.

Sound wise, difficult to compare. I think the sound personalization really makes a difference on the Free Byrd. "Adjusted" to my ears, they sound incredibly good. I really really like this feature, already liked it on the Lagoon and the Aventho Wireless back in the day  The Free Byrd sound full, very detailed and spacious. The are probably also the loudest of the three and have a very satisfying bass response. I would put them to #1 right now in comparison to the MTW3 and even the EX, although this obviously is purely subjective and others may disagree. The EX are also excellent sounding, no question about it. The MTW3, more so than others maybe, I think are also very good sounding but not as good as the other two. They do have the best transparency mode, though  Same for the ANC as already stated. 

The battery life on the Free Byrd is great, though. I'm still listening as I type and have been doing so for almost 4 hours now (I should really give my ears a break now) and battery still is at 60% in the app which is very impressive with ANC on all the time.

The big surprise is and was the comfort, though. They seem (and are) quite big and bulky buds, yet no comfort issues after 4 hours whatsoever.


----------



## jmwant

Spidermanxd said:


> I guess you do like to pay too much for buds, same pair on ebay for $84 BRAND NEW


That's w very good deal!


----------



## jmwant

Spidermanxd said:


> I guess you do like to pay too much for buds, same pair on ebay for $84 BRAND NEW


That's a very good deal!


----------



## March78

Tenlow said:


> The Free Byrd are being heavily tested today.
> 
> Left the house two hours ago and started using them. Have been using them constantly so far in public transport, while walking to the main bus station and will now use them for an almost 5 hour bus drive to Munich.
> 
> ...





Tenlow said:


> I would agree on your ANC observations. The Free Byrd ANC also is pretty weak, honestly. The MTW3 is better there without a doubt.
> 
> Sound wise, difficult to compare. I think the sound personalization really makes a difference on the Free Byrd. "Adjusted" to my ears, they sound incredibly good. I really really like this feature, already liked it on the Lagoon and the Aventho Wireless back in the day  The Free Byrd sound full, very detailed and spacious. The are probably also the loudest of the three and have a very satisfying bass response. I would put them to #1 right now in comparison to the MTW3 and even the EX, although this obviously is purely subjective and others may disagree. The EX are also excellent sounding, no question about it. The MTW3, more so than others maybe, I think are also very good sounding but not as good as the other two. They do have the best transparency mode, though  Same for the ANC as already stated.
> 
> ...


Thanks for your impressions, very useful 😃👍🏻
Would you rate the Free Byrds also above the EX in the vocals department?
Because vocals are the weak point of every TWS I tried so far (including MTW3) except for the EX.
And is the ANC on the Free Byrds as weak as on the EX or a bit better?
If the Free Byrds are equal or better than EX with vocals, I should try them out I think 😋


----------



## Tenlow (Jul 17, 2022)

March78 said:


> Thanks for your impressions, very useful 😃👍🏻
> Would you rate the Free Byrds also above the EX in the vocals department?
> Because vocals are the weak point of every TWS I tried so far (including MTW3) except for the EX.
> And is the ANC on the Free Byrds as weak as on the EX or a bit better?
> If the Free Byrds are equal or better than EX with vocals, I should try them out I think 😋


I would say on par with the EX pretty much with regard to vocals. And ANC, well, definitely not worse than the EX but also not hugely better. I wouldn't buy them for ANC alone, that's for sure  It's alright when you use the included foam tips, though, that helps.


----------



## Tenlow

So, exactly 7h in, that's the longest I've worn any pair of in ears without a break ever, I believe. While still comfortable and still 20% battery left, experiment now over. 

Thoroughly enjoyed it, though. Great sound and perfect connection all the way through. They would have lasted 8 hours with ANC as advertised. Great buds.


----------



## erockg

Tenlow said:


> So what about the erockg review of these then? "Truly worth the prize so far" doesn't satisfy this man enough here


The short of it... bass punch is nice.  Clean, not muddy.  Great soundstage.  Really like the tuning.  I'm not using a preset EQ setting, just the standard EQ.  All the features and functions work.  Tap gestures are great, no issues.  Zero BT dropouts.  ANC is good but not the strongest I've used.  There _is_ sound leakage because my wife was telling me they sounded super loud.  This is no surprise because I'm having fit issues.  Happens to me with this style all the time.  Tip rolling but haven't found my tip yet.  The case is great.  About the same size of the Beoplay EX.  App is simple but works with no issues.  Connects fast with my iPhone 13 Pro.  There's no way to tell the percentage of battery left in the case in the app or on my phone.  Wireless charging is a must IMO and they have it.  Not sure what else to say, but they're a solid pair sans the fit issues I'm having which I'm sure I'll work out.  $249 might be a little overprice, 229 would be better, but they are definitely well constructed.  I think they'll be staying for a while.


----------



## erockg

Tenlow said:


> I would say on par with the EX pretty much with regard to vocals. And ANC, well, definitely not worse than the EX but also not hugely better. I wouldn't buy them for ANC alone, that's for sure  It's alright when you use the included foam tips, though, that helps.


The EX are in my arsenal as well.  Love them to death.  I agree, Free Byrd ANC is better than the EX but nothing compare to the big guns out there.


----------



## March78

erockg said:


> The EX are in my arsenal as well.  Love them to death.  I agree, Free Byrd ANC is better than the EX but nothing compare to the big guns out there.


Purely soundwise, which one do you rank higher, EX or Free Byrd if you had to choose only one?


----------



## clerkpalmer

erockg said:


> The EX are in my arsenal as well.  Love them to death.  I agree, Free Byrd ANC is better than the EX but nothing compare to the big guns out there.


So the Free Byrd is better than the EX for $150 less?


----------



## March78

And thank you both again for your impressions, really helpfull 😃👍🏻


----------



## erockg

March78 said:


> Purely soundwise, which one do you rank higher, EX or Free Byrd if you had to choose only one?


I'm a sucker for B&Os tuning.  For me, the EX.  Fit (until I figure out a good tip) and sound are better to my ears.  Plus you get multi-pairing.


----------



## erockg

clerkpalmer said:


> So the Free Byrd is better than the EX for $150 less?


I mean, if money is no object, I still prefer the EX.  Fit and sound edge out the Free Byrd for me here.  But I do like them both.  If you have a wild hair and want a new pair for your collection, you can't go wrong by adding the Free Byrd.  Fit is similar to the new Yamaha buds and I'm having a difficult time finding a tip better than the stock silicone.  Driving me batty here.  Plus the sound leakage is annoying.  Just asked my wife if she could still hear them and she nodded yup.  That said, I do crank my hard rock!


----------



## clerkpalmer

erockg said:


> I mean, if money is no object, I still prefer the EX.  Fit and sound edge out the Free Byrd for me here.  But I do like them both.  If you have a wild hair and want a new pair for your collection, you can't go wrong by adding the Free Byrd.  Fit is similar to the new Yamaha buds and I'm having a difficult time finding a tip better than the stock silicone.  Driving me batty here.  Plus the sound leakage is annoying.  Just asked my wife if she could still hear them and she nodded yup.  That said, I do crank my hard rock!


Ok thanks. Yeah with my current use case, $250 is a lot more palatable than $400 and the difference to me prob won’t matter that much since I keep volume low. Fit and comfort does matter to me however.


----------



## erockg

clerkpalmer said:


> Ok thanks. Yeah with my current use case, $250 is a lot more palatable than $400 and the difference to me prob won’t matter that much since I keep volume low. Fit and comfort does matter to me however.


Didn't you have the EX once upon a time, or maybe that was the EQ?  The EX are much better than the EQ imo, and I still think the EQ were great.  I didn't expect too much from the Free Byrd since the market is so saturated, but I was pleasantly surprised.  Beyerdynamic priced them right.  If they're on Amazon or the like, they're worth at least trying out.


----------



## clerkpalmer

erockg said:


> Didn't you have the EX once upon a time, or maybe that was the EQ?  The EX are much better than the EQ imo, and I still think the EQ were great.  I didn't expect too much from the Free Byrd since the market is so saturated, but I was pleasantly surprised.  Beyerdynamic priced them right.  If they're on Amazon or the like, they're worth at least trying out.


Yes. Returned due to battery drain and decided to move on. I did like them but didn’t feel the value was there with the charging gremlins. A few black left on Amazon. And white.


----------



## erockg

clerkpalmer said:


> Ok thanks. Yeah with my current use case, $250 is a lot more palatable than $400 and the difference to me prob won’t matter that much since I keep volume low. Fit and comfort does matter to me however.


Switched to some ePro TW00 tips and the sound on the Free Byrd seems to sound much better.  Also, the wife now says she cannot hear them.  Woo hoo!


----------



## Tenlow (Jul 17, 2022)

erockg said:


> Switched to some ePro TW00 tips and the sound on the Free Byrd seems to sound much better.  Also, the wife now says she cannot hear them.  Woo hoo!


Yeah, I was surprised by your sound leakage observation. The EX have huge sound leakage in my case. As already stated the wife called the EX "party mode" when I listened to them at fairly loud levels. She hasn't complained about the Free Byrd yet but, and that's probably the reason, I don't have any fit issues with them whatsoever. I have to use size M in the left and L in the right ear but I had that with other TWS as well in the past. Took me a while to figure out the best combination with these but now they're really great. I like that the silicone on the provided tips is "stiffer", thicker, whatever than e.g. on the MTW3. Always fits my ears better that way.


----------



## Not so fat head

No doubt $100 to $150 wireless buds can and do sound great.  Most use off the shelf components.  Maybe even just OEM'ed from some mega factory in China, with some modifications.  Even Sony uses custom Silicon from Broadcom...  Apple on the other hand is all in on their own chips, but not sure 100%..  I know they're made by TSMC in Taiwan...  Apple has the cash to differentiate themselves...


----------



## Not so fat head

Oops, I meant Qualcomm chips...


----------



## erockg

Tenlow said:


> Yeah, I was surprised by your sound leakage observation. The EX have huge sound leakage in my case. As already stated the wife called the EX "party mode" when I listened to them at fairly loud levels. She hasn't complained about the Free Byrd yet but, and that's probably the reason, I don't have any fit issues with them whatsoever. I have to use size M in the left and L in the right ear but I had that with other TWS as well in the past. Took me a while to figure out the best combination with these but now they're really great. I like that the silicone on the provided tips is "stiffer", thicker, whatever than e.g. on the MTW3. Always fits my ears better that way.


I'm still playing around here.  Still can't find the perfect fit.  Happens to me every time I use this form factor


----------



## bladefd

erockg said:


> I'm still playing around here.  Still can't find the perfect fit.  Happens to me every time I use this form factor


Do the Free Byrd stick out too much? I feel it may not work for side-sleeping


----------



## erockg

bladefd said:


> Do the Free Byrd stick out too much? I feel it may not work for side-sleeping


They do stick out more than others.  It really depends on what tips you use. But, they wouldn’t be my first choice for side sleeping.


----------



## Juturna

Okay, so now to decide what earbuds I'm getting after my next paycheck. Based on reviews and the hype here I'm suddenly interested in the Beyerdynamic Free Byrds, and I'm still interested in the Linkbuds S and the 1more Evos, anyone tried all 3 and can give a small comparison/recommendation? @erockg - I think I seem to recall you trying all of them, right? 

I'm still currently leaning Linkbuds S because they seem to have the best ANC out of the three, and I already have two earbuds I like the sound of but feel like they have lacking ANC (Liberty 3 Pro + Galaxy Buds Pro) and then one with good ANC but where the audio doesn't sound that great to me (Devialet Gemini), but in the end sound quality is my #1 thing for earbuds after all.


----------



## Juturna

Okay, so after using the Liberty 3 Pro for a couple of days now at least, i'm REALLY liking them.
Using Wavelet I think they sound up there with the best I've used. The soundstage and separation is probably the most impressive thing about them to my ears. There's depth to the sound, and the sound really sounds like it's coming from outside of your head and not just the whole "in your head"-sound that I especially found annoying with the Sony WF-1000XM3s for an example. 
The sound is honestly crisp and exciting and you can really EQ them to your hearts desire, so I find all parts of the frequency range great-sounding, even if I with my current EQ SOMETIMES find that some songs don't sound exactly the way I want... but I still don't want to change the EQ because it sounds SO GOOD for others. 
What I've noticed is that they usually sound very good with songs that the Galaxy Buds Pros sound less good with (electronic music, pop) and sounds slightly less good with some of the older 90's classics that I sometimes listen to for nostalgia's sake, but it's just marginally worse. 

So far the worst thing about them is that certain songs do have some crackling sounds at least on LDAC, and there's literally nothing that I know of that can predict which songs would have this or not, but I'm not that bothered by it honestly, it's slightly annoying but it's not common enough to make me want to not use the earbuds. 
Battery life on LDAC isn't amazing, but it's also not that much worse than my Galaxy Buds Pros on AAC for an example. 
For me the fit is good, the L eartips and the preinstalled wingtips are fine, even if my right ear possibly would want the largest wingtip, but I can't bear them looking different from each other lol. 
ANC is slightly better than OK, but it seems very inconsistent even when I keep it locked at "high", sometimes it blocks sounds that I wouldn't expect it to, and sometimes it lets through sounds that I thought for sure would be more diminished with the ANC.


----------



## Tenlow

bladefd said:


> Do the Free Byrd stick out too much? I feel it may not work for side-sleeping


Yes, they do. Doesn't look too bad though, in case that's a concern. They're definitely not for side sleeping, mind you.


----------



## Ceeluh7

What's up fellas!? I don't know if you've seen this or related content here on these pages. Who am I kidding it's probably been talked about to death. I haven't been on here lately as I've been silly busy at the website but I saw this from the boys at DHRME. Ya know the YouTube channel. Here is a link to their site giving a kind of an overview of the new LC3 codec. Also they have a link on their page where you can hear actual differences in some of the other codes compared to LC3... Guys it's pretty impressive. Everyone who frequents this page should be at least slightly excited. This will be a game changer for wireless audio. https://www.dhrme.nl/wireless-audio-is-about-to-change-forever/
Take care fellas


----------



## erockg

Juturna said:


> Okay, so now to decide what earbuds I'm getting after my next paycheck. Based on reviews and the hype here I'm suddenly interested in the Beyerdynamic Free Byrds, and I'm still interested in the Linkbuds S and the 1more Evos, anyone tried all 3 and can give a small comparison/recommendation? @erockg - I think I seem to recall you trying all of them, right?
> 
> I'm still currently leaning Linkbuds S because they seem to have the best ANC out of the three, and I already have two earbuds I like the sound of but feel like they have lacking ANC (Liberty 3 Pro + Galaxy Buds Pro) and then one with good ANC but where the audio doesn't sound that great to me (Devialet Gemini), but in the end sound quality is my #1 thing for earbuds after all.


Honestly, I keep trying the Sony buds.  All of them.  I even repurchase them thinking I'll fall for them as some point.  Sony buds start with a honeymoon phase then that slowly dies out because I prefer other options.  I'd say the Linkbuds S are my favorite of the bunch but they've already been replaced.  Tons of bells and whistles and the ANC is strong.  Not XM4 strong, but close.  That said, I prefer the Free Byrd and oddly enough, I've been using the EVO quite often since I got them.  Even fell asleep with them last night listening to a book.  The 1More app is buggy, but once you get the EVO set up, they're pretty impressive for whatever cheap price you can get them for.  The Free Byrd are just plain refined.  Everything works.  Sound is great.  Settled on some Azla tips today and some old school Pantera sounds killer.  Not sure if this stream of consciousness helps, but hopefully!


----------



## Juturna

erockg said:


> Honestly, I keep trying the Sony buds.  All of them.  I even repurchase them thinking I'll fall for them as some point.  Sony buds start with a honeymoon phase then that slowly dies out because I prefer other options.  I'd say the Linkbuds S are my favorite of the bunch but they've already been replaced.  Tons of bells and whistles and the ANC is strong.  Not XM4 strong, but close.  That said, I prefer the Free Byrd and oddly enough, I've been using the EVO quite often since I got them.  Even fell asleep with them last night listening to a book.  The 1More app is buggy, but once you get the EVO set up, they're pretty impressive for whatever cheap price you can get them for.  The Free Byrd are just plain refined.  Everything works.  Sound is great.  Settled on some Azla tips today and some old school Pantera sounds killer.  Not sure if this stream of consciousness helps, but hopefully!


Ah, interesting to hear, thanks. Was pretty sure I was getting the Linkbuds S but I'm not so sure anymore. 

Unfortunately I haven't seen the 1more Evo for less than about (loosely converted) $180-190 where I'm at, not sure if they're worth that asking price when that's not far from the Free Byrd and about the same as the Linkbuds S.

I usually don't love Sony products either but the Linkbuds S seem to fix many of my issues with the XM3 and XM4s at least.


----------



## dweaver

From a purely musical perspective my Fiio combo sounds leaps ahead of the Linkbuds S but that combo is also ahead of the Gbuds Pro and AZ60 so it is my go to for music when I have time and circumstances to enjoy it.

I bought the Linkbuds S hoping for a sound signature that I would like as compared to other Sony products they have been releasing which are all to dark and bombastic for my liking and have better comfort, bells and whistles etc. In both those areas Sony hit the nail on the head. These sound much better that the WF-1000XM3 and based on everything I have read the XM4 as well. I actually have 129hrs of use on them so far. So they are definitely getting a lot of use. I find my other TWS just sitting since I got these with the Fiio combo coming in a distant second as I find these just more convenient and the signature is good enough for distracted listening (most of my day).


----------



## jant71

Got my Mee tips in today...




Now I totally remember what I don't like about this set. I would really love M/L size in between the S/M/L type. The short Senn style bi-flanges L is actually fine. Would like to have something in between M and L in both the normal single flange and the taller style. Or if the M was bigger on those two that would be another fix. 

Still nice tips. Should have thought to have gotten these instead of the EPro. At least the Epro were bought with a gift cards so I didn't use any of my own money. 

As far as TWS I get the best sound I have out of the Yamaha. I actually like the longer bi-flange best but they don't really fit in the case. TBH they do and they charge but the lid won't close all the way. I like the Senn style bi-flanges as well on the TW-E5B. Settled on, for my ears a L tall on my left and L normal on my right side. It works for me as the normal L is a bit more tapered on the top and my right side is a smidge smaller than the left. 

I can use the longer bi-flange for my Heart Mirror, a barrel type with two-pin than stops insertion at a point so the longer length is great. 

Other than the M's being a smidge smaller than best for me, I think it's still true that this is a good set that any Head-fier should have in their fit kit.


----------



## LastFantasy

https://custom.ultimateears.com/products/ue-drops
What kind of novelty will UE DROPS show in the boring wireless earbuds?
 It's finally over $400.


----------



## erockg

LastFantasy said:


> https://custom.ultimateears.com/products/ue-drops
> What kind of novelty will UE DROPS show in the boring wireless earbuds?
> It's finally over $400.


That would be the custom molded TWS they've been teasing.


----------



## jant71

LastFantasy said:


> https://custom.ultimateears.com/products/ue-drops
> What kind of novelty will UE DROPS show in the boring wireless earbuds?
> It's finally over $400.


Boring meaning looks? Think some of the EPZ, the FoKus, the new Tin Buds 3 still look better. $449 for just passive, BT5.0, only up to aptX, and no multipoint. Yes custom is great but it needs the SQ to have staying power. The ambient and mics needs to be quality as well. Not convinced just yet and this coming from someone who has purchased close to 10 UE models. Still pretty much the going rate for TWS customs and it does have ambient. They certainly have the market cornered there. Would be nice if they said anything about the innards and the sound signature they are going for.


----------



## erockg

jant71 said:


> Boring meaning looks? Think some of the EPZ, the FoKus, the new Tin Buds 3 still look better. $449 for just passive, BT5.0, only up to aptX, and no multipoint. Yes custom is great but it needs the SQ to have staying power. The ambient and mics needs to be quality as well. Not convinced just yet and this coming from someone who has purchased close to 10 UE models. Still pretty much the going rate for TWS customs and it does have ambient. They certainly have the market cornered there. Would be nice if they said anything about the innards and the sound signature they are going for.


I will not be dropping this $ until solid reviews appear and coupon codes exist!  If they're anything like the old Bragi Dash Pro Starkey edition, might be worth it.  Custom fitted bud, if done right, really are comfortable.  I use to swear by UE wired buds for years, before Logitech bought them.


----------



## erockg

jant71 said:


> Boring meaning looks? Think some of the EPZ, the FoKus, the new Tin Buds 3 still look better. $449 for just passive, BT5.0, only up to aptX, and no multipoint. Yes custom is great but it needs the SQ to have staying power. The ambient and mics needs to be quality as well. Not convinced just yet and this coming from someone who has purchased close to 10 UE models. Still pretty much the going rate for TWS customs and it does have ambient. They certainly have the market cornered there. Would be nice if they said anything about the innards and the sound signature they are going for.





erockg said:


> I will not be dropping this $ until solid reviews appear and coupon codes exist!  If they're anything like the old Bragi Dash Pro Starkey edition, might be worth it.  Custom fitted bud, if done right, really are comfortable.  I use to swear by UE wired buds for years, before Logitech bought them.


Few more specs:  9.2-millimeter dynamic drivers, and have handy features like in-ear sensors for music auto-pause, transparency mode, anda case that supports wireless charging. UE claims battery life at 8 hours per charge, unless you keep transparency mode on, in which case that drops to 5.5 hours. The case holds an additional 14 hours of playtime, for a maximum of 22 hours before you need to plug it in or look for a wireless charger. Codec-wise, the Drops support AAC and aptX.


----------



## stacey

Not so fat head said:


> No doubt $100 to $150 wireless buds can and do sound great.  Most use off the shelf components.  Maybe even just OEM'ed from some mega factory in China, with some modifications.  Even Sony uses custom Silicon from Broadcom...  Apple on the other hand is all in on their own chips, but not sure 100%..  I know they're made by TSMC in Taiwan...  Apple has the cash to differentiate themselves...


Most TWS use Qualcomm as an ODM, back when buying pre-built super gaming PC ( like Alienware, voodoo pc etc before they got purchased by the big boys). I’m guessing that they get their specs , chassis , etc from Qualcomm and all they do is tune, and maybe add their propriety drivers. 

That said it would be cool to see someone like say Oriolous take a crack at it


----------



## stacey

erockg said:


> Few more specs:  9.2-millimeter dynamic drivers, and have handy features like in-ear sensors for music auto-pause, transparency mode, anda case that supports wireless charging. UE claims battery life at 8 hours per charge, unless you keep transparency mode on, in which case that drops to 5.5 hours. The case holds an additional 14 hours of playtime, for a maximum of 22 hours before you need to plug it in or look for a wireless charger. Codec-wise, the Drops support AAC and aptX.


Sounds like a worse Beoplay EX. I’m good.


----------



## erockg

stacey said:


> Sounds like a worse Beoplay EX. I’m good.


Guess we'll see..


----------



## jant71

They don't want a repeat of these kind of titles...


----------



## erockg

jant71 said:


> They don't want a repeat of these kind of titles...


Hopefully, they've learned.  I had the Fits.  Fit was excellent, but the sound was not IMO.  Plus the case was cheap.  The buds had mediocre features.  On paper, sounds like they fixed some flaws and upped the fit ante.  Very curious, but they can't possibly sound as good as my IEMs or some of the latest TWS big guns.  But I truly hope they surprise me!


----------



## FYLegend

Juturna said:


> So far the worst thing about them is that certain songs do have some crackling sounds at least on LDAC, and there's literally nothing that I know of that can predict which songs would have this or not, but I'm not that bothered by it honestly, it's slightly annoying but it's not common enough to make me want to not use the earbuds.
> Battery life on LDAC isn't amazing, but it's also not that much worse than my Galaxy Buds Pros on AAC for an example.
> For me the fit is good, the L eartips and the preinstalled wingtips are fine, even if my right ear possibly would want the largest wingtip, but I can't bear them looking different from each other lol.
> ANC is slightly better than OK, but it seems very inconsistent even when I keep it locked at "high", sometimes it blocks sounds that I wouldn't expect it to, and sometimes it lets through sounds that I thought for sure would be more diminished with the ANC.


Any examples of crackling? Not noticing this with LDAC but I get intermittent "crackling" even without playing music regardless of codec and some users were complaining about something similar and suggested it could be due to a defective ANC mic but I'd suspect it is related to the seal or driver flex as I notice it even with ANC off and on other earbuds too. I'm not really noticing it much anymore, but it was pretty annoying when I first used them. Otherwise I wonder if on some devices Bluetooth "dropouts' manifest as crackles rather than cuts. On my Note 9 when dropouts often happen with my phone in my right pocket or my hands cupped near the Bluetooth modem, I find LDAC more prone to blatant cuts while "aliasing"/stretching happens more with AAC.

I really like the raw sharpness with LDAC, but at times I find it overbearing and papery, while AAC sounds a tad grainy lacking the crispness. I read some complaints the in-app EQ is not that good, I would like to use Wavelet more but I find its usage between apps a bit cumbersome and not always detected.


----------



## Caipirina

Ceeluh7 said:


> What's up fellas!? I don't know if you've seen this or related content here on these pages. Who am I kidding it's probably been talked about to death. I haven't been on here lately as I've been silly busy at the website but I saw this from the boys at DHRME. Ya know the YouTube channel. Here is a link to their site giving a kind of an overview of the new LC3 codec. Also they have a link on their page where you can hear actual differences in some of the other codes compared to LC3... Guys it's pretty impressive. Everyone who frequents this page should be at least slightly excited. This will be a game changer for wireless audio. https://www.dhrme.nl/wireless-audio-is-about-to-change-forever/
> Take care fellas


YAY! finally a reason to buy ALL NEW BUDS !!!! 

Gotten a tad boring this summer ... I mean ... I scroll through amazon and there is nothing left I am drooling after .. that I want to save money for ... 

Next stop for me: probably the APP2


----------



## C_Lindbergh

Personally I'm looking forward to Technics next flagship TWS, hopefully later this year with full support of LE audio among other improvements.


----------



## dweaver

I am also curious about what Technics does next. The AZ60 certainly have a lot to offer. Between what they already do and new technology coming out like LE if they can shrink down the IEM a bit, throw in wireless, add a sensor or 2 they will be kicking butt!


----------



## FullCircle

erockg said:


> I like how they snuck a second driver in them.



The definitive difference between the

Falcon ANC

&

The FoKus H - ANC 

"H" = hybrid


----------



## erockg

FullCircle said:


> The definitive difference between the
> 
> Falcon ANC
> 
> ...


Thanks.  I do know this.  Obsessive research a week ago


----------



## FullCircle

erockg said:


> Thanks.  I do know this.  Obsessive research a week ago


----------



## clerkpalmer

Anyone have the Fokus H Anc yet?


----------



## iichigoz

Anyone can do a comparison between the Noble Fokus pro and the Sony wf1000 xm4? I am contemplating to get either one of them. Thanks!


----------



## xuan87

Haven't been following this thread for a while so I might have missed out: has anyone tried the Oppo Enco X2? I have 3 TWS on my radar and it's the only one that I can easily buy right now (other 2 being the Pixel Buds Pro and Huawei Freebuds Pro 2). 

Getting it from China, it should cost me around $140 and it has a few interesting features that I'm interested to test out, like smart ANC, dynamic+ planar drivers, sound tuning by Dynaudio and Joe Hisaishi tuned EQ, bone conducting microphones etc.


----------



## Caipirina

In the meantime, on the hilarious budget front: I caved in and just had to find out what the deal is with those: ANC for less than 15€? Can it be true? Well… the answer is multi pronged. 



First of all, no idea why it says Yagusol … this is the Axloie F1, comes with a fairly unique/ attractive case, comes with 4 sets of tips (instead of the usual 3) and 3 pairs of rubber rings / edges / wings …with coupon they were 10% off -14.39€ 
The reviews on amzn de are pretty bad, one guy complains about the California mandated lead is bad sticker, most people complain about sound & ANC … but here is the kicker: this has all to do IMHO with no one getting a proper seal, which is admittedly quite tricky. 
See the 2 ear pics. Top: I have the right one in right ear, but totally over twisted (also smallest / no wing) … pictures show they are supposed to dangle down like airpod stems. 
Second image: left bud in right ear! Stem in up position. Both of those may look weird, but sound is pretty nice, not cheap sounding at all (from my little testing) and ANC is definitely working. Pretty well actually, testing with a fan right now. 
Now, I am just curious about battery behavior… they arrived pretty empty and are charging now. 
YMMV 
Only 10 left


----------



## jmwant

Any feedback on the Soundpeats Mini Pro?


----------



## clerkpalmer

FullCircle said:


> The definitive difference between the
> 
> Falcon ANC
> 
> ...


@nobleaudio - how does the Fokus H compare to the Pro in terms of sound signature and quality given the sizeable price gap?  Will the blue Fokus H be available anytime soon?


----------



## darveniza

xuan87 said:


> Haven't been following this thread for a while so I might have missed out: has anyone tried the Oppo Enco X2? I have 3 TWS on my radar and it's the only one that I can easily buy right now (other 2 being the Pixel Buds Pro and Huawei Freebuds Pro 2).
> 
> Getting it from China, it should cost me around $140 and it has a few interesting features that I'm interested to test out, like smart ANC, dynamic+ planar drivers, sound tuning by Dynaudio and Joe Hisaishi tuned EQ, bone conducting microphones etc.


Would recommend FreeBuds Pro 2 if you can get them vs the Oppo Enco X2. Also Google will release next week their new Pixel buds with upgraded features , ANC,etc. So it may be worth pausing for a couple of weeks and look at the new releases


----------



## tiagopinto

Ceeluh7 said:


> What's up fellas!? I don't know if you've seen this or related content here on these pages. Who am I kidding it's probably been talked about to death. I haven't been on here lately as I've been silly busy at the website but I saw this from the boys at DHRME. Ya know the YouTube channel. Here is a link to their site giving a kind of an overview of the new LC3 codec. Also they have a link on their page where you can hear actual differences in some of the other codes compared to LC3... Guys it's pretty impressive. Everyone who frequents this page should be at least slightly excited. This will be a game changer for wireless audio. https://www.dhrme.nl/wireless-audio-is-about-to-change-forever/
> Take care fellas



Extremely interesting. Thanks for sharing this.

Let’s just hope, like he says, that Apple doesn’t debunk this.


----------



## xuan87

darveniza said:


> Would recommend FreeBuds Pro 2 if you can get them vs the Oppo Enco X2. Also Google will release next week their new Pixel buds with upgraded features , ANC,etc. So it may be worth pausing for a couple of weeks and look at the new releases



Any reason why you recommend the Freebuds Pro 2 over the Oppo Enco X2? Have you tried both and preferred the former?


----------



## erockg

If knows a good tip to use with the Beyerdynamic Free Byrd, please throw out suggestions.  I've tried all the stock tips and so many great other options, but man, these things will not stay put.  One step away from a return here.


----------



## Tenlow

erockg said:


> If knows a good tip to use with the Beyerdynamic Free Byrd, please throw out suggestions.  I've tried all the stock tips and so many great other options, but man, these things will not stay put.  One step away from a return here.


Makes me sad to read this. I hate when that happens with buds. Here especially. I just love these and get auch a great fit with the stock tips. Didn't even have to start tip rolling. Ear shapes really can be strange sometimes.


----------



## jant71

erockg said:


> If knows a good tip to use with the Beyerdynamic Free Byrd, please throw out suggestions.  I've tried all the stock tips and so many great other options, but man, these things will not stay put.  One step away from a return here.


But why won't they stay put? Meaning do you think a longer tip is what you need or wider. How is the case for romm for tips. *Obviously standard Sedna Earfits would be the best case depth test. More info makes it easier to solve.


----------



## erockg

jant71 said:


> But why won't they stay put? Meaning do you think a longer tip is what you need or wider. How is the case for romm for tips. *Obviously standard Sedna Earfits would be the best case depth test. More info makes it easier to solve.


Tried the Azla, you name it.  Longer, wider, foam.  It's the way the bud is designed.  Keeps pushing out of my ears.  I had the same issue with the Yamaha, Cleer, etc that use that similar shell.  Awful because the BFB sound really good.


----------



## erockg

Tenlow said:


> Makes me sad to read this. I hate when that happens with buds. Here especially. I just love these and get auch a great fit with the stock tips. Didn't even have to start tip rolling. Ear shapes really can be strange sometimes.


You're right and lucky!  I love the sound and everything works so well.  I find myself changing tips every few hours and nothing seems to sit well.  So very frustrating.


----------



## erockg

clerkpalmer said:


> Anyone have the Fokus H Anc yet?


Waiting for mine to ship


----------



## jant71

erockg said:


> Tried the Azla, you name it.  Longer, wider, foam.  It's the way the bud is designed.  Keeps pushing out of my ears.  I had the same issue with the Yamaha, Cleer, etc that use that similar shell.  Awful because the BFB sound really good.


Maybe something like this from the MEE set will work...


----------



## erockg

jant71 said:


> Maybe something like this from the MEE set will work...


Looks similar to some others in my arsenal.


----------



## Death_Block

What about something like these tips?


----------



## FullCircle (Jul 20, 2022)

clerkpalmer said:


> @nobleaudio - how does the Fokus H compare to the Pro in terms of sound signature and quality given the sizeable price gap?  Will the blue Fokus H be available anytime soon?



Those that have used them both
The consensus is, the FoKus Pro fedility wise, is a superior product.

But living with the product....

I own them both & I use the HANC as a daily driver, due to the ergonomics, and functions. I really do not miss the FoKus Pro at all, so.to me that means the sound quality of the HANC has to be nearly as good as the FoKus Pro.

Hard to say this, as it is contrary to belief as we are talking about wireless

But the FoKus Pro is more for the hard core enthusiasts, where as the FoKus H-ANC is for someone that wants good sound & and convenience centered as well.


----------



## jant71 (Jul 20, 2022)

erockg said:


> Looks similar to some others in my arsenal.


I know they will fit with the MEE bi flange but will they fit in the Beyer case. Looks like you don't have the Sony LL or I don't see the lilac color core there.


----------



## Caipirina

jmwant said:


> Any feedback on the Soundpeats Mini Pro?


They are decent budget buds, I got them same time as the 1more piston buds pro and both of them are doing an equally fine job in sound and anc .. but nothing to get overly excited about ... I also thought (after some review indicated so) that they are small enough for side sleeping, which does not work for me at all ... 
In that price range I'd rather go for the Fiil T2 Pro (or the earfun counter part) or if you want really small, the 1more comfobuds mini I kinda like for that small form factor .. they are usually 99 and often have discounts ..


----------



## jant71 (Jul 20, 2022)

erockg said:


> Looks similar to some others in my arsenal.



Will likely do the trick. Best the Yamaha have sounded for me so not like it will stay put but not sound as good as other tips. Great presentation and depth with the length. Buuuut, you can trim off the core some if you wanted or needed.


----------



## Caipirina

Another crazy budget find on amzn de ... Those are actually the Taotronics Soundliberty 94, as reviewed by our own @regancipher 

For 15.99€ I can't do much wrong (other than the fact that I really do NOT need another set ... )


----------



## bladefd

erockg said:


> Waiting for mine to ship


I don't see any reviews anywhere of the fokus H-Anc, which I find odd. It has been released already and no reviews?? Do people not know it is out?


----------



## jmwant

Caipirina said:


> They are decent budget buds, I got them same time as the 1more piston buds pro and both of them are doing an equally fine job in sound and anc .. but nothing to get overly excited about ... I also thought (after some review indicated so) that they are small enough for side sleeping, which does not work for me at all ...
> In that price range I'd rather go for the Fiil T2 Pro (or the earfun counter part) or if you want really small, the 1more comfobuds mini I kinda like for that small form factor .. they are usually 99 and often have discounts ..


Thanks for the feedback. The 1more Comfobuds were also in my list.


----------



## james444

Ceeluh7 said:


> What's up fellas!? I don't know if you've seen this or related content here on these pages. Who am I kidding it's probably been talked about to death. I haven't been on here lately as I've been silly busy at the website but I saw this from the boys at DHRME. Ya know the YouTube channel. Here is a link to their site giving a kind of an overview of the new LC3 codec. Also they have a link on their page where you can hear actual differences in some of the other codes compared to LC3... Guys it's pretty impressive. Everyone who frequents this page should be at least slightly excited. This will be a game changer for wireless audio. https://www.dhrme.nl/wireless-audio-is-about-to-change-forever/
> Take care fellas





tiagopinto said:


> Extremely interesting. Thanks for sharing this.
> 
> Let’s just hope, like he says, that Apple doesn’t debunk this.



Lots of things to like about this Bluetooth upgrade: BLE audio streaming, higher efficiency, lower power consumption, better battery life, potentially smaller earbuds.

However, the claim of "MUCH higher audio quality at the same bit rate" seems rather doubtful imo. Did anyone who listened to SBC@248 kbps and LC3@248 kbps hear a big difference? I for my part didn't.

So I downloaded the test tracks from here and here, compared them digitally with Audio DiffMaker and the difference seems actually quite small. Anyone interested can do the same, just install the freeware, run the test tracks and listen to the diff file.

Oh and btw, the test track called "no encoding" is actually FLAC encoded. Should sound the same as WAV though, except for golden ears.


----------



## jant71

james444 said:


> Lots of things to like about this Bluetooth upgrade: BLE audio streaming, higher efficiency, lower power consumption, better battery life, potentially smaller earbuds.
> 
> However, the claim of "MUCH higher audio quality at the same bit rate" seems rather doubtful imo. Did anyone who listened to SBC@248 kbps and LC3@248 kbps hear a big difference? I for my part didn't.
> 
> ...


 I think LC3+is what we are really waiting for. That is where the difference will truly be. They never really gave optimized higher bit rate SBC. I guess the problem will be getting it implemented. I guess on Android we will have it perhaps outside of Samsung phones which might only give LC3. Figure Apple will also only do what they are obligated to and not give LC3+. Sony as well on their devices. Figure they will c*ckblock the open source high bit rate stuff if they can.


----------



## erockg (Jul 20, 2022)

bladefd said:


> I don't see any reviews anywhere of the fokus H-Anc, which I find odd. It has been released already and no reviews?? Do people not know it is out?


Pretty sure they just started shipping today.  Looks like mine was shipped and will be here Friday.  Not sure if or how many Noble sends out to the reviewers out there.


----------



## darveniza

xuan87 said:


> Any reason why you recommend the Freebuds Pro 2 over the Oppo Enco X2? Have you tried both and preferred the former?


Have the original Oppo Enco X and Huawei FBP and found the tuning and anc much more appealing on the Huawei. Recently tried the Oppo Enco X2 in Singapore while having the opportunity to try the new Huawei week and half ago in Europe. ANC with Huawei was noticeably improved , that surprised me a lot. Tuning was really great and was surprised until someone told me these were tuned by Devialet vs Dynaudio on Oppo. That was my take. Just simple recollection from experience


----------



## jant71

darveniza said:


> Have the original Oppo Enco X and Huawei FBP and found the tuning and anc much more appealing on the Huawei. Recently tried the Oppo Enco X2 in Singapore while having the opportunity to try the new Huawei week and half ago in Europe. ANC with Huawei was noticeably improved , that surprised me a lot. Tuning was really great and was surprised until someone told me these were tuned by Devialet vs Dynaudio on Oppo. That was my take. Just simple recollection from experience



Yep the two have a partnership going...


----------



## ticoss

jant71 said:


> I think LC3+is what we are really waiting for. That is where the difference will truly be. They never really gave optimized higher bit rate SBC. I guess the problem will be getting it implemented. I guess on Android we will have it perhaps outside of Samsung phones which might only give LC3. Figure Apple will also only do what they are obligated to and not give LC3+. Sony as well on their devices. Figure they will c*ckblock the open source high bit rate stuff if they can.



The LC3 codec will be supported by Androïd 13: 
https://www.xda-developers.com/android-13-may-add-blueooth-le-audio-support/


----------



## jant71

ticoss said:


> The LC3 codec will be supported by Androïd 13:
> https://www.xda-developers.com/android-13-may-add-blueooth-le-audio-support/


We know that.  I, if you look closer, am talking LC3+ not LC3.


----------



## erockg

jant71 said:


> Maybe something like this from the MEE set will work...


Order a set of the MEE from Amazon to try.  Also, trying the ML version of the Azla SednaEarfit Crystal Standard today.  The Free Byrds just might live to fight another day.


----------



## Not so fat head

Now that I can properly equalize them, my Bose SoundSports Frees are at the top of my collection.  Yep they're big, non noise cancelling and not the best battery life, but they are winners...
I have two of them and looked for any QC deviation is sound, simply can't find any...
Bose should update these and bring them back even better.  👍
It's something about the open back design and chamber size, probably needs far less DSP as smaller close backs...


----------



## xuan87

darveniza said:


> Have the original Oppo Enco X and Huawei FBP and found the tuning and anc much more appealing on the Huawei. Recently tried the Oppo Enco X2 in Singapore while having the opportunity to try the new Huawei week and half ago in Europe. ANC with Huawei was noticeably improved , that surprised me a lot. Tuning was really great and was surprised until someone told me these were tuned by Devialet vs Dynaudio on Oppo. That was my take. Just simple recollection from experience



Understood! May I ask where in Singapore did you try the Oppo Enco X2? I'm currently in Singapore right now.


----------



## xuan87

erockg said:


> If knows a good tip to use with the Beyerdynamic Free Byrd, please throw out suggestions.  I've tried all the stock tips and so many great other options, but man, these things will not stay put.  One step away from a return here.



I had a similar issue with Drop Grell TWS, only the Symbio tips work for me.


----------



## darveniza

xuan87 said:


> Understood! May I ask where in Singapore did you try the Oppo Enco X2? I'm currently in Singapore right now.


Oppo store at Bugis Junction close to the Liverpool Football store


----------



## Devodonaldson

iichigoz said:


> Anyone can do a comparison between the Noble Fokus pro and the Sony wf1000 xm4? I am contemplating to get either one of them. Thanks!


I have both, listen to both, but mainly use xm4 as my sleep iems now. I used to use xm4 over falcon pro because xm4 was more engaging and musical with its warmth and presentation. The Fokus does everything the xm4 does better. Still a warm overall presentation,  but treble is present, bass is deep, sound is fun, but definitely overall more detailed. Of course no anc or ambient but passive isolation is good, IMO.


----------



## xuan87

darveniza said:


> Oppo store at Bugis Junction close to the Liverpool Football store


Much appreciated! I know my plans for this Saturday then.


----------



## cattboy

darveniza said:


> Google will release next week their new Pixel buds with upgraded features , ANC,etc.


Google product support says the new Pixel Buds Pro only support SBC & AAC Bluetooth codecs.
:/


----------



## cattboy (Jul 21, 2022)

jant71 said:


> LC3+


Hopefully the lower latency and reduced bandwidth sizes allows two way stereo when using a microphone on headsets/TWS.

I'll settle for lower latency with higher sound quality & longer lasting battery TWS


----------



## Tstorey

Having got the SednaEarfit TWS specific tips they’ve made a huge difference to my MW07’s (mentioned earlier in this thread). I thought I’d give them a try on my Jabra 75t’s. Holy crap, amazing, perfect fit and seal and opens up the musicality superbly. Except they don’t fit in the charging case 😩


----------



## ticoss

jant71 said:


> We know that.  I, if you look closer, am talking LC3+ not LC3.
> [...]


Oups !
Sorry


----------



## clerkpalmer

erockg said:


> Pretty sure they just started shipping today.  Looks like mine was shipped and will be here Friday.  Not sure if or how many Noble sends out to the reviewers out there.


Looking forward to impressions. Did you get the blue?


----------



## erockg

clerkpalmer said:


> Looking forward to impressions. Did you get the blue?


I deliberated and went with purple.


----------



## clerkpalmer

erockg said:


> I deliberated and went with purple.


The blue is sold out but I kinda like the purple.  Very interested in whether these could be daily drivers for work calls and cycling.  I have the adidas like you - which I like quite a bit - the fit and seal is insane good.  The SQ is just meh.


----------



## erockg (Jul 21, 2022)

clerkpalmer said:


> The blue is sold out but I kinda like the purple.  Very interested in whether these could be daily drivers for work calls and cycling.  I have the adidas like you - which I like quite a bit - the fit and seal is insane good.  The SQ is just meh.


I too am on the fence with the Adidas after a week.  Love the fit for sure and use them for sleep.  Still within the return policy and just saw they're on sale for $104 on Adidas.com with an additional $10 back from Honey.  Ugh.  Much more palpable price.  Might do the old return re-buy switcharoo.

https://www.adidas.com/us/adidas-fw...s-earbuds/EY5112.html?forceSelSize=EY5112_500


----------



## clerkpalmer

erockg said:


> I too am on the fence with the Adidas after a week.  Love the fit for sure and use them for sleep.  Still within the return policy and just saw they're on sale for $104 on Adidas.com with an additional $10 back from Honey.  Ugh.  Much more palpable price.  Might do the old return re-buy switcharoo.


I like them a lot better at $100 than $200.  I got mine with a 30 percent off code so they work for me at $140.  They did a nice job designing the shape and wings.  Maybe even better than Bose themselves.  The sound is all boom and treble.  Which is actually fine for a bike ride but I'm always looking for an upgrade.  For cycling, they have least wind noise I have experienced.


----------



## erockg

clerkpalmer said:


> I like them a lot better at $100 than $200.  I got mine with a 30 percent off code so they work for me at $140.  They did a nice job designing the shape and wings.  Maybe even better than Bose themselves.  The sound is all boom and treble.  Which is actually fine for a bike ride but I'm always looking for an upgrade.  For cycling, they have least wind noise I have experienced.


I like what the Zound Industries is doing with their designs for Adidas and Marshall.  Good stuff.  I agree, they have a purpose, but def not for us searching for the never ending end game.  I use them on hikes and walks so far.  Love the low profile case too.  No issues yet.


----------



## tiagopinto

james444 said:


> Lots of things to like about this Bluetooth upgrade: BLE audio streaming, higher efficiency, lower power consumption, better battery life, potentially smaller earbuds.
> 
> However, the claim of "MUCH higher audio quality at the same bit rate" seems rather doubtful imo. Did anyone who listened to SBC@248 kbps and LC3@248 kbps hear a big difference? I for my part didn't.
> 
> ...



I’m on iPhone and will continue to be. I don’t use a dedicated player so don’t use FLAC. I do use hi-res streaming so I just hope I can have this tech on an iPhone...



jant71 said:


> We know that.  I, if you look closer, am talking LC3+ not LC3.



Wow. I didn’t know or recall LC3+. This is also very interesting. And I also did not know the new codec would use the same existing comm profile. Oh man, I just hope it works. THEN, I’ll upgrade my mobile setup. 

Cheers guys!


----------



## clerkpalmer

erockg said:


> I like what the Zound Industries is doing with their designs for Adidas and Marshall.  Good stuff.  I agree, they have a purpose, but def not for us searching for the never ending end game.  I use them on hikes and walks so far.  Love the low profile case too.  No issues yet.


Still searching for the Unicorn


----------



## clerkpalmer

tiagopinto said:


> I’m on iPhone and will continue to be. I don’t use a dedicated player so don’t use FLAC. I do use hi-res streaming so I just hope I can have this tech on an iPhone...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


We will all be waiting 5 years or more for Apple to implement this if they do at all.  More likely is Apple will do something proprietary on this.  I do think they will bring true hi res wireless to the table eventually.


----------



## Mouseman

clerkpalmer said:


> We will all be waiting 5 years or more for Apple to implement this if they do at all.  More likely is Apple will do something proprietary on this.  I do think they will bring true hi res wireless to the table eventually.


They are rumored to be bringing ALAC lossless to the new APP that are upcoming this year. While that would be huge, it certainly would be nice if they added some other codecs that would work with other hardware. I don't expect them to pay licensing fees for some of the ones that are out there, but I didn't see what LC3+ charges.


----------



## Ceeluh7

jant71 said:


> I think LC3+is what we are really waiting for. That is where the difference will truly be. They never really gave optimized higher bit rate SBC. I guess the problem will be getting it implemented. I guess on Android we will have it perhaps outside of Samsung phones which might only give LC3. Figure Apple will also only do what they are obligated to and not give LC3+. Sony as well on their devices. Figure they will c*ckblock the open source high bit rate stuff if they can.


100%, well said


----------



## clerkpalmer

Mouseman said:


> They are rumored to be bringing ALAC lossless to the new APP that are upcoming this year. While that would be huge, it certainly would be nice if they added some other codecs that would work with other hardware. I don't expect them to pay licensing fees for some of the ones that are out there, but I didn't see what LC3+ charges.


It will be interesting to see how they do that.  Speculation has been WIFI based tech versus bluetooth.  This is the time of year that new Android phones are released that always pull me in ... only to go back to apple after few months.  I have been patiently waiting for Apple to up their hifi game.


----------



## jant71

Mouseman said:


> They are rumored to be bringing ALAC lossless to the new APP that are upcoming this year. While that would be huge, it certainly would be nice if they added some other codecs that would work with other hardware. I don't expect them to pay licensing fees for some of the ones that are out there, but I didn't see what LC3+ charges.



Sony should go for it. Cheaper than going Qualcomm and it doesn't seem like they can make LDAC very efficient and not have range issues. If they can't advance LDAC then maybe go that route. Unless anyone has heard some news that they are getting that LDAC upgrading done??


Ok people. Hike those prices on your FS A&K UW100's.  They are as of now "discontinued" due to lack of materials.


----------



## Artmuzz

Does anyone know how to switch off the voice activate function that stops the music every time I speak on the Sony XM4 TWS. I have tried the setting in the Sony app but there doesn’t seem to be a function to switch it off.


----------



## Bhelpoori

clerkpalmer said:


> It will be interesting to see how they do that.  Speculation has been WIFI based tech versus bluetooth.  This is the time of year that new Android phones are released that always pull me in ... only to go back to apple after few months.  I have been patiently waiting for Apple to up their hifi game.


You don’t need Wifi bandwidth to for lossless:  it takes too much power, is too expensive and doesn’t have the audio framework of LE Audio . Bluetooth LE is quite sufficient. 

Also there is widespread confusion about LC3 and the plus version. For Bluetooth they are the same: standard LC3 is capable of 96/24. LC3Plus is aimed at other non Bluetooth markets. 

However, nothing comes for free, if you want 96/24 then you will use more battery power but much less than LDAC and lose some other functionality. 

Happy to answer other LE Audio questions…


----------



## Not so fat head

erockg said:


> Looks similar to some others in my arsenal.


Amazing collection of tips!


----------



## jant71 (Jul 21, 2022)

Bhelpoori said:


> You don’t need Wifi bandwidth to for lossless:  it takes too much power, is too expensive and doesn’t have the audio framework of LE Audio . Bluetooth LE is quite sufficient.
> 
> Also there is widespread confusion about LC3 and the plus version. For Bluetooth they are the same: standard LC3 is capable of 96/24. LC3Plus is aimed at other non Bluetooth markets.
> 
> ...


The title of their own paper on LC3plus is "High Resolution via Bluetooth A2DP". It is BT and DECT and some other non-BT in addition. I don't think it is accurate saying LC3 is BT and LC3+ is not.

This quote would make no sense...
"LC3plus is the standardized solution to provide the quality of high-resolution music streaming services also over wireless accessories – facilitating independence from proprietary, vendor-specific technologies."

If they are not talking Qualcomm and Apple here and they mean to free us from non-BT vendor specific stuff I don't know what that would be. Please fill us in. 

also..."bring high-transparency audio streaming to high-resolution wireless accessories such as headsets or loudspeakers. LC3plus is the only open-standard audio codec for high-resolution wireless headsets and high-quality gaming headsets."
Meaning these wireless devices mentioned here are not BT?? Think a majority of wireless and gaming headsets are BT, no??

Seems Plus is higher bit rate and considered Hi-Res and LC3 is lower bit rate and not as good. Not sure how they are the same. Not by how Fraunhofer are talking. They also have some balls with LC3 being free and you need to pay a license fee for plus. You would be paying for nothing if they were the same.


----------



## assassin10000

Artmuzz said:


> Does anyone know how to switch off the voice activate function that stops the music every time I speak on the Sony XM4 TWS. I have tried the setting in the Sony app but there doesn’t seem to be a function to switch it off.


It's called 'speak to chat'.

I disabled it on mine through the sony app fine.


----------



## Bhelpoori

jant71 said:


> The title of their own paper on LC3plus is "High Resolution via Bluetooth A2DP". It is BT and DECT and some other non-BT in addition. I don't think it is accurate saying LC3 is BT and LC3+ is not.
> 
> This quote would make no sense...
> "LC3plus is the standardized solution to provide the quality of high-resolution music streaming services also over wireless accessories – facilitating independence from proprietary, vendor-specific technologies."
> ...


Correct on the paper and the wireless part but the licensing situation has changed since then. Anyone with a Bluetooth SIG license to use Bluetooth audio can have LC3 up to 96/24. One of the reasons for that is that to maintain compatibility since LC3+ is effectively a different codec in that it needs different encode and decode, and the Bluetooth SIG didn’t want to see needless codec compatibility issues.

What is shown by this paper is that LC3 can be used with Bluetooth Classic aka A2DP rather than just LE Audio, although I don’t think that is standardised just yet, though haven’t checked for a while. It also shows that the biggest advantage of + is less latency, but that is constrained by how the Bluetooth radio works anyways. 

LC3 isn’t free, it just has its cost included as part of the Bluetooth license.

For TWS, the biggest improvement is a standardised way for a TWS to work, rather than the mess of Bluetooth Classic today, and the ability to have high quality mic and audio at the same time, which is impossible under Classic. LC3 is a relatively minor part of the change, actually.


----------



## LastFantasy

Bhelpoori said:


> Correct on the paper and the wireless part but the licensing situation has changed since then. Anyone with a Bluetooth SIG license to use Bluetooth audio can have LC3 up to 96/24. One of the reasons for that is that to maintain compatibility since LC3+ is effectively a different codec in that it needs different encode and decode, and the Bluetooth SIG didn’t want to see needless codec compatibility issues.
> 
> What is shown by this paper is that LC3 can be used with Bluetooth Classic aka A2DP rather than just LE Audio, although I don’t think that is standardised just yet, though haven’t checked for a while. It also shows that the biggest advantage of + is less latency, but that is constrained by how the Bluetooth radio works anyways.
> 
> ...



When looking at the use case of LC3plus, B&O's Beosound Level and Beolab 28, wireless stereo speakers that caught my eye, are BT 5.0 with Wi-Fi transmission, and it is said that they used LC3plus high-resolution codec for stereo pairing.

The above case is probably the non-BT using LC3plus.

The LC3 found in the beta firmware of Apple AirPods Max a while ago was found to be only for HFP(Hands-Free profile) as a result of testing, which is the same as mentioned in Fraunhofer's LC3 description.
(https://www.iis.fraunhofer.de/en/ff/amm/communication/lc3.html)

If my understanding is correct, since LC3 is a standard codec included as a specification for LE Audio by the Bluetooth SIG, it can be found on hardware supporting LE Audio of BT 5.2 or higher in the future.

LC3plus is Fraunhofer's proprietary codec and has been developed for use in the A2DP profile, so it can be found on non-LE Audio devices (including non-BT). Of course, the expensive license price is a bonus.


----------



## Redcarmoose (Jul 22, 2022)

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/tinhifi-tin-buds-3.964073/post-17060416
Slight first impressions.

Well, they just came in last night. Funny I was on the lap-top and clicked to check and they showed up as a BT item. With-in 2 seconds they were on and providing music. I almost never read instructions, so I guess they go on when taken out of case? I then went about 38 feet to the bathroom behind a brick wall and they worked with-out fault. I then left the room with the laptop (MacBook Air) on the bed and tried to go down stairs. They started to give out as I was (53 feet away & behind two walls) changing floors, halfway down the stairway.

They sound great and not like a single DD at all. In fact that was my amazement; how the bass (when in a song) was well spaced out into the sound-stage. This is a feature here with instrument placement, that I don't have (exactly hear) with any other headphones. The TINHIFI Tin Buds 3 don't have quite the authority (of wired with a) DAP sound, but entertain, none the less. I went to the 2nd satellite kitchen upstairs next to the bedroom............and they were one-wall away still with a perfect signal. I then had dinner (behind a brick-wall) with them in my ears. First time I have ever had a meal with headphones on. It was great. Sorry, I'm not really a BT expert, but I do have a pair of Apple AirPods (2nd generation), and obviously way better than that. I will have a review in a week.


----------



## Bhelpoori (Jul 22, 2022)

LastFantasy said:


> When looking at the use case of LC3plus, B&O's Beosound Level and Beolab 28, wireless stereo speakers that caught my eye, are BT 5.0 with Wi-Fi transmission, and it is said that they used LC3plus high-resolution codec for stereo pairing.
> 
> The above case is probably the non-BT using LC3plus.



yes, this is a good use case. LE Audio‘s original use case was for hearing aids and that’s a great use case for LC3+ today too. Non BT gaming headsets would be another, since the latency can be really low.


LastFantasy said:


> The LC3 found in the beta firmware of Apple AirPods Max a while ago was found to be only for HFP(Hands-Free profile) as a result of testing, which is the same as mentioned in Fraunhofer's LC3 description.
> (https://www.iis.fraunhofer.de/en/ff/amm/communication/lc3.html)



HFP and A2DP are different profiles of Bluetooth audio (I won’t bore you with the history) and definitely not the same as the paper. HFP is mono too…at least in the standard.


LastFantasy said:


> If my understanding is correct, since LC3 is a standard codec included as a specification for LE Audio by the Bluetooth SIG, it can be found on hardware supporting LE Audio of BT 5.2 or higher in the future.



5.3+ is what you want. 5.2 does work but not as efficiently for the TWS use case. However, remember that the version of Bluetooth does not indicate support for LE-Audio


LastFantasy said:


> LC3plus is Fraunhofer's proprietary codec and has been developed for use in the A2DP profile, so it can be found on non-LE Audio devices (including non-BT). Of course, the expensive license price is a bonus.


LC3Plus is independent of framework and radio so whilst it was demoed with A2DP it can be used anywhere. It wasn’t developed for A2DP, it’s just easy to demo that way. It really is quite neat… I don’t think the licensing cost is significant or ’expensive’ however. OTOH, today, I don’t see any reason to put LC3Plus in a Bluetooth device today but I’m coming from the engineering side.


----------



## Tenlow (Jul 22, 2022)

A pretty detailed Free Byrd review that is actually very true to life and resembles my feelings pretty accurately. It also mentiones (initial) fit issues btw.

It also mentiones the low latency mode for gaming, something I left out as I didn't/ don't care for it that much.

https://www.mmorpg.com/hardware-rev...-first-tws-earbuds-review-2000125577?amp=true


----------



## Artmuzz

assassin10000 said:


> It's called 'speak to chat'.
> 
> I disabled it on mine through the sony app fine.



I don’t know how I missed this it was staring at me in the face in the app. Thanks.


----------



## subguy812 (Jul 22, 2022)

Tenlow said:


> A pretty detailed Free Byrd review that is actually very true to life and resembles my feelings pretty accurately. It also mentiones (initial) fit issues btw.
> 
> It also mentiones the low latency mode for gaming, something I left out as I didn't/ don't care for it that much.
> 
> https://www.mmorpg.com/hardware-rev...-first-tws-earbuds-review-2000125577?amp=true


How are they comparing to your EX?

Kind of asking because I just returned from vacation and picked up the Sony XM4 because I wanted to hear what God-tier ANC was like for the flight. 

After owning the EX, XM4, TW3 and others, I have to say it is difficult to hold a candle to the sound quality of the EX. 

The Sony's sound good, and their ANC is great, I missed multi-point or the EX though on the flight. My S22 Ultra has no storage card, so I used one of my DAPs to listen to, while in air, and I couldn't use the Sony app and the DAP at the same time. The DAP is not open Android so I couldn't download the app on the DAP


----------



## J_3000

My EX are f i n a l l y shipped by Amazon.de. Took about two months 😄


----------



## clerkpalmer

Bhelpoori said:


> You don’t need Wifi bandwidth to for lossless:  it takes too much power, is too expensive and doesn’t have the audio framework of LE Audio . Bluetooth LE is quite sufficient.
> 
> Also there is widespread confusion about LC3 and the plus version. For Bluetooth they are the same: standard LC3 is capable of 96/24. LC3Plus is aimed at other non Bluetooth markets.
> 
> ...


I didn’t say you needed Wi-Fi for lossless. What I said was there is speculation that apple may implement a lossless protocol using airplay/Wi-Fi. I guess we will see how apple approaches the problem. I don’t see them adopting LC3 or the plus version anytime soon


----------



## clerkpalmer

So, Free Byrd owners, how iffy is the fit?  I really want to pull the trigger but I often have issues with fit with only the best designed TWS usually staying put.  I don't need to go running with them but I do want to move around with them.  Am I likely to be disappointed?


----------



## erockg

clerkpalmer said:


> So, Free Byrd owners, how iffy is the fit?  I really want to pull the trigger but I often have issues with fit with only the best designed TWS usually staying put.  I don't need to go running with them but I do want to move around with them.  Am I likely to be disappointed?


Not good over here.  They'd fly out of my ears if I ran with them.  Everything else about them is awesome.  Going to try other tips and see if that helps, but not feeling lucky yet.  I've had issues with this type of shell before.  Not surprising the Free Byrd aren't sitting well.  That said, my Noble Fokus H-ANC are out for delivery!


----------



## clerkpalmer

erockg said:


> Not good over here.  They'd fly out of my ears if I ran with them.  Everything else about them is awesome.  Going to try other tips and see if that helps, but not feeling lucky yet.  I've had issues with this type of shell before.  Not surprising the Free Byrd aren't sitting well.  That said, my Noble Fokus H-ANC are out for delivery!


Speaking of fit I never did get the Fokus pro to sit well. The nozzles are wide. Interested in your impressions. I think I need to pass on the free Byrd. Guessing not gonna work.


----------



## erockg

clerkpalmer said:


> Speaking of fit I never did get the Fokus pro to sit well. The nozzles are wide. Interested in your impressions. I think I need to pass on the free Byrd. Guessing not gonna work.


I think if the Free Byrd came down in price, the fit would be more palpable.  Same here on the Fokus Pro.  They tend to slide out no matter what I do.  The shell of the Creative Outlier Pro is the same as the Fokus H-ANC and they fit me PERFECT.  Excited to listen them.  Ohhh, speak of the devil.  FedEx has arrived!


----------



## clerkpalmer

erockg said:


> I think if the Free Byrd came down in price, the fit would be more palpable.  Same here on the Fokus Pro.  They tend to slide out no matter what I do.  The shell of the Creative Outlier Pro is the same as the Fokus H-ANC and they fit me PERFECT.  Excited to listen them.  Ohhh, speak of the devil.  FedEx has arrived!


No pressure but I will refresh every 30 seconds until your impressions are posted.


----------



## bladefd

erockg said:


> Not good over here.  They'd fly out of my ears if I ran with them.  Everything else about them is awesome.  Going to try other tips and see if that helps, but not feeling lucky yet.  I've had issues with this type of shell before.  Not surprising the Free Byrd aren't sitting well.  That said, my Noble Fokus H-ANC are out for delivery!


I can't wait for your take on the H-ANC. I have had my eyes on them for a couple weeks (just not purple! Waiting for the blue)


----------



## erockg (Jul 22, 2022)

clerkpalmer said:


> No pressure but I will refresh every 30 seconds until your impressions are posted.





bladefd said:


> I can't wait for your take on the H-ANC. I have had my eyes on them for a couple weeks (just not purple! Waiting for the blue)


One bug right away.  When I change button settings on the buds themselves, they don't take to the buds.  I did see they had an app bugs update today.  Evidently, that didn't work.  I'll try resetting the buds.  That said, the default taps work fine (learning curve) but I prefer my own settings.  (EDIT: reset the buds, deleted and reinstalled the app and now I can customize the taps).  The app functions exactly like the FoKus Pro (same app).  Sub bass is great with a flat EQ.  ANC is decent.  Not earth shattering.  Comparable to the 1More EVO which were stunningly good and have better ANC at 42db.  These have a little less ANC, but different tips may help add passive isolation.  They block out all my fans, outdoor ambiance, etc.  Purple is surprisingly beautiful.  I'm not a purple guy, but these have a nice purple matte finish that helps prevent fingerprints.  Case is plastic.  Thin and light.  Not awful, but def not as premium as the Pro.  Which was expected.  I truly wish these had wireless charging.  They do not.  Knew that going in.  Going in for the kill with a new Megadeth track and these things do a great job.  Nice soundstage, sub bass is great.  Good detail.  Mind you, I have not messed with any EQ yet.  I will soon.  Moved to the new Ghost album.  Love how it's mixed.  Sub bass is excellent with the Fokus H-ANC.  Fit is perfect for my ears.  Even with the stock tips that came installed.  Took one phone call and the caller said I sounded loud and clear.  Honeymoon phase has commenced!


----------



## BooleanBones

erockg said:


> Honeymoon phase has commenced!


By this time you must have created a headphone prenup?


----------



## erockg

BooleanBones said:


> By this time you must have created a headphone prenup?


My relationships do not last long enough to need one?


----------



## clerkpalmer

erockg said:


> One bug right away.  When I change button settings on the buds themselves, they don't take to the buds.  I did see they had an app bugs update today.  Evidently, that didn't work.  I'll try resetting the buds.  That said, the default taps work fine (learning curve) but I prefer my own settings.  (EDIT: reset the buds, deleted and reinstalled the app and now I can customize the taps).  The app functions exactly like the FoKus Pro (same app).  Sub bass is great with a flat EQ.  ANC is decent.  Not earth shattering.  Comparable to the 1More EVO which were stunningly good and have better ANC at 42db.  These have a little less ANC, but different tips may help add passive isolation.  They block out all my fans, outdoor ambiance, etc.  Purple is surprisingly beautiful.  I'm not a purple guy, but these have a nice purple matte finish that helps prevent fingerprints.  Case is plastic.  Thin and light.  Not awful, but def not as premium as the Pro.  Which was expected.  I truly wish these had wireless charging.  They do not.  Knew that going in.  Going in for the kill with a new Megadeth track and these things do a great job.  Nice soundstage, sub bass is great.  Good detail.  Mind you, I have not messed with any EQ yet.  I will soon.  Moved to the new Ghost album.  Love how it's mixed.  Sub bass is excellent with the Fokus H-ANC.  Fit is perfect for my ears.  Even with the stock tips that came installed.  Took one phone call and the called said I sounded loud and clear.  Honeymoon phase has commenced!


How’s the fit?


----------



## clerkpalmer

erockg said:


> My relationships do not last long enough to need one?
> 
> 
> erockg said:
> ...


Ordered.


----------



## Tenlow

clerkpalmer said:


> So, Free Byrd owners, how iffy is the fit?  I really want to pull the trigger but I often have issues with fit with only the best designed TWS usually staying put.  I don't need to go running with them but I do want to move around with them.  Am I likely to be disappointed?


Well, they're big. That alone can be an issue for some ears. Personally, no problems here whatsoever, though. Nobody can tell you how it will work for your ears. They're comfortable and stable for me. Surprisingly so even. Totally happy with them.


----------



## erockg

clerkpalmer said:


> How’s the fit?


I think I lightly touched on fit above.  They're similar to those Bragi Dash buds.  Those fit me incredibly well.  IMO, these are the best fitting Noble TWS yet.  But again, that's just me.  Just did the personalized EQ process and kicked them up a notch.  If you like how Jim tunes, you shouldn't be disappointed by the sound of these.


----------



## Tenlow

subguy812 said:


> How are they comparing to your EX?
> 
> Kind of asking because I just returned from vacation and picked up the Sony XM4 because I wanted to hear what God-tier ANC was like for the flight.
> 
> ...


I prefer them over the EX, all things considered. 
Sound is amazing on both but the sound personalization gives them the edge to me personally. Love the sound, I really do. Battery life is better as well. I can operate them better as I prefer the bigger touch surfaces. They're pretty much bug free as well. ANC and transparency are comparable on both, as is call quality. Got them for almost half the price of the EX (206€ vs. 399€). Much better bang for the buck, imo.

However, the EX are better built, have a nicer case, probably the more universal fit for more ears and multipoint bluetooth. 

It really comes down to the fit, I would say...


----------



## BooleanBones

Tenlow said:


> I prefer them over the EX, all things considered.
> Sound is amazing on both but the sound personalization gives them the edge to me personally. Love the sound, I really do. Battery life is better as well. I can operate them better as I prefer the bigger touch surfaces. They're pretty much bug free as well. ANC and transparency are comparable on both, as is call quality. Got them for almost half the price of the EX (206€ vs. 399€). Much better bang for the buck, imo.
> 
> However, the EX are better built, have a nicer case, probably the more universal fit for more ears and multipoint bluetooth.
> ...


You forgot IP57 on the EX again


----------



## Tenlow

BooleanBones said:


> You forgot IP57 on the EX again


Damn  Well, it's not much of an everyday issue for me, maybe that's why. Good to have for sure, though. Never had an issue with any TWS because of their low/high whatever IP rating, honestly. Still, higher is better, so that's a plus for the EX.


----------



## clerkpalmer

erockg said:


> I think I lightly touched on fit above.  They're similar to those Bragi Dash buds.  Those fit me incredibly well.  IMO, these are the best fitting Noble TWS yet.  But again, that's just me.  Just did the personalized EQ process and kicked them up a notch.  If you like how Jim tunes, you shouldn't be disappointed by the sound of these.


Yeah you did. My bad. Yeah bragi had the fit down pretty well. I’m glad they changed the shell and presumably the nozzle.


----------



## subguy812

Tenlow said:


> Damn  Well, it's not much of an everyday issue for me, maybe that's why. Good to have for sure, though. Never had an issue with any TWS because of their low/high whatever IP rating, honestly. Still, higher is better, so that's a plus for the EX.


Funny you say that. I live in Florida and float around in the pool with the EX. Someone asked me about them and when I told them they were $400 they couldn't believe I was in the pool with them.


----------



## Tenlow

subguy812 said:


> Funny you say that. I live in Florida and float around in the pool with the EX. Someone asked me about them and when I told them they were $400 they couldn't believe I was in the pool with them.


I've just looked around and couldn't find any pool. I think I'm good


----------



## erockg

clerkpalmer said:


> Yeah you did. My bad. Yeah bragi had the fit down pretty well. I’m glad they changed the shell and presumably the nozzle.


These are definitely using a Bragi-type inner shell without the sensors.


----------



## erockg

subguy812 said:


> Funny you say that. I live in Florida and float around in the pool with the EX. Someone asked me about them and when I told them they were $400 they couldn't believe I was in the pool with them.


I'll have to try my EX in the pool with my toddler.  I grabbed some Jaybird Vista 2s for $99 on Prime Day for this purpose, but the BT connection isn't very stable after a bit of travel.  Accidentally went under though and they survived.  BT connection reconnected right away.  I would surely not do that with my EX!


----------



## BooleanBones

subguy812 said:


> Funny you say that. I live in Florida and float around in the pool with the EX. Someone asked me about them and when I told them they were $400 they couldn't believe I was in the pool with them.


I do the same exact thing with mine. Float with some music and a beer, it's great.


----------



## bladefd

Tenlow said:


> I prefer them over the EX, all things considered.
> Sound is amazing on both but the sound personalization gives them the edge to me personally. Love the sound, I really do. Battery life is better as well. I can operate them better as I prefer the bigger touch surfaces. They're pretty much bug free as well. ANC and transparency are comparable on both, as is call quality. Got them for almost half the price of the EX (206€ vs. 399€). Much better bang for the buck, imo.
> 
> However, the EX are better built, have a nicer case, probably the more universal fit for more ears and multipoint bluetooth.
> ...


And price


----------



## howdy (Jul 22, 2022)

With the Samsung Galaxy Buds Pro 2 coming out soon (August 10th) are there any interest in these? I for one like the 1st iteration and listen to them quite often (almost daily.)  Samsung will probably offer trade ins, so I will probably send them my SGB Pro for a discount on the 2nd. Still considering the EX as I kind of like the form factor and have always like there tuning. I want the all black version and they seem to always be backordered.


----------



## dweaver

Any info on them yet?


howdy said:


> With the Samsung Galaxy Buds Pro 2 coming out soon (August 10th) are there any interest in these? I for one like the 1st iteration and listen to them quite often (almost daily.)  Samsung will probably offer trade ins, so I will probably send them my SGB Pro for a discount on the 2nd. Still considering the EX as I kind of like the form factor and have always like there tuning. I want the all black version and they seem to always be backordered.


----------



## howdy

dweaver said:


> Any info on them yet?


I seen some reviews on Youtube but its all hyperbole. I'm hoping there will be some info closer to release time.


----------



## Darkestred

erockg said:


> One bug right away.  When I change button settings on the buds themselves, they don't take to the buds.  I did see they had an app bugs update today.  Evidently, that didn't work.  I'll try resetting the buds.  That said, the default taps work fine (learning curve) but I prefer my own settings.  (EDIT: reset the buds, deleted and reinstalled the app and now I can customize the taps).  The app functions exactly like the FoKus Pro (same app).  Sub bass is great with a flat EQ.  ANC is decent.  Not earth shattering.  Comparable to the 1More EVO which were stunningly good and have better ANC at 42db.  These have a little less ANC, but different tips may help add passive isolation.  They block out all my fans, outdoor ambiance, etc.  Purple is surprisingly beautiful.  I'm not a purple guy, but these have a nice purple matte finish that helps prevent fingerprints.  Case is plastic.  Thin and light.  Not awful, but def not as premium as the Pro.  Which was expected.  I truly wish these had wireless charging.  They do not.  Knew that going in.  Going in for the kill with a new Megadeth track and these things do a great job.  Nice soundstage, sub bass is great.  Good detail.  Mind you, I have not messed with any EQ yet.  I will soon.  Moved to the new Ghost album.  Love how it's mixed.  Sub bass is excellent with the Fokus H-ANC.  Fit is perfect for my ears.  Even with the stock tips that came installed.  Took one phone call and the caller said I sounded loud and clear.  Honeymoon phase has commenced!



I assume you'll be comparing this vs the regular Fokus?  I almost bit the bullet on this as it looks nearly the same on paper and cheaper.


----------



## subguy812

BooleanBones said:


> I do the same exact thing with mine. Float with some music and a beer, it's great.


The difference is, generally some form of tequila in my Yeti


----------



## subguy812

I may have to check out the Pixel Buds Pro. Seem to have a nice feature set. Unfortunately, Google has that review embargo, so it is impossible to even get the crappy embellishment reviews. I will order them from Best Buy for easy return.


----------



## erockg

Darkestred said:


> I assume you'll be comparing this vs the regular Fokus?  I almost bit the bullet on this as it looks nearly the same on paper and cheaper.


Definitely not the same on paper. The Fokus Pro sounds exceptionally better because of the three drivers.  More codecs too.  Fokus H-ANC only has AAC and SBC, but are much better as an every day daily driver.  My Fokus Pro moved on due to getting no love.  No ANC and Transparency mode, not to mention the fit for me wasn’t always great.  The Fokus H-ANC fits absolutely perfect.  If you want the best sounding TWS, get the Fokus Pro.  If you want another that is less of the sound the Fokus Pro has (but still sounds great) and has all the other features, get the H-ANC.  I will not be looking back.  If I truly want better sound, I’ll pop in my Moondrop S8 or Sennie IE600s.


----------



## Bhelpoori

clerkpalmer said:


> I didn’t say you needed Wi-Fi for lossless. What I said was there is speculation that apple may implement a lossless protocol using airplay/Wi-Fi.


I’m sorry. My bad. I was just trying to give an engineer’s view…

I guess we will see how apple approaches the problem. I don’t see them adopting LC3 or the plus version anytime soon
They have no choice like all of us if they want the benefits of LE-Audio: LC3 is required.


----------



## jmwant

howdy said:


> With the Samsung Galaxy Buds Pro 2 coming out soon (August 10th) are there any interest in these? I for one like the 1st iteration and listen to them quite often (almost daily.)  Samsung will probably offer trade ins, so I will probably send them my SGB Pro for a discount on the 2nd. Still considering the EX as I kind of like the form factor and have always like there tuning. I want the all black version and they seem to always be backordered.


Hope this time it gets LDAC support, though its highly unlikely. And a bit better midbass.


----------



## Juturna

Realized that the Beyerdynamic Free Byrds aren't available for purchase in my area, and I'm kinda bitter now. 
I looked at both their website and Amazon.de and they won't ship to Sweden (yet, at least), a bit of a bummer. 

Was planning on buying them next week, but I think I'll try to be happy with my Soundcore Liberty 3 Pros for awhile instead. Which to be fair, I really am except for the battery life on LDAC and the aesthetics of the earbuds themselves. But that battery life is very annoying. 

Was thinking of the Linkbuds S or the 1more Evo then, but... I don't think I feel like they're upgrades enough.


----------



## cattboy (Jul 23, 2022)

Bhelpoori said:


> don’t see any reason to put LC3Plus in a Bluetooth device today but I’m coming from the engineering side.


Interesting you say this.  Win11 (future state) and android 13 beta will have LC3 baked in. 

TWS or Headsets only offer mono audio if using a mic, unless some combination of RF & Bluetooth is used by manufacturer that allows two way stereo to work.  That combination generally only works on PC or Mac, (requires USB dongle or hub) leaving the smartphone/device audience left out with horribly sounding calls (voip/etc). 

If LE audio offers better battery's for those Bluetooth devices, less charging is a win

If that process can be consolidated into a single Bluetooth codecs (allowing usage in  W11/android/iOS) I see a large market.

Personally waiting for a TWS that offer low latency (lower then aptx-ll, my current driver).  If I get better battery and better sound that's icing on the cake.


----------



## smith

Shameless plug here..I have the new Noble Audio Flacon ANC up for sale here on the forum


----------



## DigDub (Jul 24, 2022)

Pixel buds pro.







Very comfortable and doesn't protrude much out of the ears. Treble and mids are present, could be a tad piercing at times. Heavy mid bass, the 11mm drivers you can hear as much as you can feel. Soundstage is pretty enclosed and not very spacious. Volume control can be done by swiping on the earbuds which works well (down to increase volume, up to decrease). There seems to be no way to turn off the adaptive ANC, long pressing on the earbuds just switches between adaptive ANC and transparency mode. Transparency mode sounds quite unnatural. Taking either bud out of the ears will stop playback, which is quite irritating for me. Putting any of the earbuds in the ear will resume playback. I hope the in ear detection function can be turned off. Unfortunately the pixel buds app keep crashing, so there's no way to find out what I can do with the app.


----------



## xSDMx (Jul 24, 2022)

DigDub said:


> Pixel buds pro.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thank you for sharing your early impressions! Seems like the sound signature is W shaped? Did you own the Pixel Buds 2 or A? How do they compare? I think these have the same 11mm dynamic driver, so I wouldn't be surprised if the tuning is identical.

Did you confirm which audio codec they are using? AAC? How is the connection stability?

Re: in-ear detection and the app crashing. My guess is that there is a release day app update scheduled which fixes compatibility for the new model. I've owned all the other Pixel Buds and the app did have an option to disable the in-ear detection, enable bass boost, etc. There will also probably be some option to change ANC vs. transparency mode control.


----------



## DigDub

xSDMx said:


> Thank you for sharing your early impressions! Seems like the sound signature is W shaped? Did you own the Pixel Buds 2 or A? How do they compare? I think these have the same 11mm dynamic driver, so I wouldn't be surprised if the tuning is identical.
> 
> Did you confirm which audio codec they are using? AAC? How is the connection stability?
> 
> Re: in-ear detection and the app crashing. My guess is that there is a release day app update scheduled which fixes compatibility for the new model. I've owned all the other Pixel Buds and the app did have an option to disable the in-ear detection, enable bass boost, etc. There will also probably be some option to change ANC vs. transparency mode control.


Ya I think it's W shaped. These are my first pair of Google buds, so I can't make any direct comparison. They use AAC on my Samsung flip 3 phone. Connection is rock solid so far. I hope Google updates the app soon so it can work with the buds.


----------



## Caipirina (Jul 24, 2022)

Dangit! All that hype talk here makes me want to order the Free Byrds ...  you guys are a bad bad influence ... and amazon is a terrible enabler ...

OH, but good I checked ... it is apparently NOT as easy as usual to send those back ... what is 'original condition?' ... if they have a seal / pull strap like Bose, once you open it is 'used' ... sooooo ... this makes me circle back ... 



Then again ... my birthday is coming up  

AND they are not available in Japan yet AT ALL ... (flying back soon)


----------



## bladefd

Caipirina said:


> Dangit! All that hype talk here makes me want to order the Free Byrds ...  you guys are a bad bad influence ... and amazon is a terrible enabler ...
> 
> OH, but good I checked ... it is apparently NOT as easy as usual to send those back ... what is 'original condition?' ... if they have a seal / pull strap like Bose, once you open it is 'used' ... sooooo ... this makes me circle back ...
> 
> ...


Did Amazon change return policy or is it only for that single item?


----------



## james444

xuan87 said:


> Haven't been following this thread for a while so I might have missed out: has anyone tried the Oppo Enco X2? I have 3 TWS on my radar and it's the only one that I can easily buy right now (other 2 being the Pixel Buds Pro and Huawei Freebuds Pro 2).
> 
> Getting it from China, it should cost me around $140 and it has a few interesting features that I'm interested to test out, like smart ANC, dynamic+ planar drivers, sound tuning by Dynaudio and Joe Hisaishi tuned EQ, bone conducting microphones etc.



I had the Oppo Enco X2 from Amazon and they're going back to where they came from. Had high hopes after an all-around positive experience with the Enco Air 2, but contrary to the latter, the X2 seem like a somewhat half baked product to me. Encountered multiple issues, even the largest tips being too small for large ears, proprietary tip mount, lack of space in the charging case for third party tips,  BT-connection reverting from LDAC to AAC (despite the fact  that my phone supports the former), about 10dB drop in bass when going from ANC mode to no ANC, you name it. Must confess I Lost patience after two hours of largely frustrating testing, even though the hybrid DD/planar driver seems very capable and sound quality would be stellar, if the rest of the package were up to snuff.


----------



## Caipirina

bladefd said:


> Did Amazon change return policy or is it only for that single item?


This is for all items that are NOT shipped / sold by amazon ... if it comes from a 3rd party seller / shipper (in this case Beyerdynamics), THEIR rules apply ... always check who you are actually buying from, in this case, amazon is just the middle man


----------



## Caipirina

Ok, some detail questions regarding the Free Byrds:
Is it possible to disable the single tap in the app? That is a recipe for disaster, every time I need to adjust the fit ... 

What's the situation on multipoint? I saw one bad review on amazon blasting the Byrds for not even having the most rudimenatry form of MP .. while there is one review on YT saying they remember up to 6 devices ... 
Then again, the YT reviews out there so far are mesmerizing ... one guy was explaining the marvels of the USB-C plug .. seriously? 

I give myself one night to sleep over it


----------



## OG10

Has anyone tried the B&O Ex? - Is there a cheaper alternative or is it worth picking up. 
I am only interested in SQ


----------



## Phaethon

I’m cycling through all the gems in my jewel box and am spending some quality time with my FoKus Pros. They are so sweet and every time I wear them I forget all the others!
But… was there ever a firmware update? I don’t find anything about a firmware check in the app and I can’t get the answer from Google! 
Thanks as always


----------



## Caipirina

Dangit! I saw on the Beyerdynamics site that I can get 10% off when I sign up for the newsletter ... 
Free Byrds will be here in a few days  ..  for 206.10€.  

Early happy b'day to me I guess?


----------



## J_3000

Caipirina said:


> Dangit! All that hype talk here makes me want to order the Free Byrds ...  you guys are a bad bad influence ... and amazon is a terrible enabler ...
> 
> OH, but good I checked ... it is apparently NOT as easy as usual to send those back ... what is 'original condition?' ... if they have a seal / pull strap like Bose, once you open it is 'used' ... sooooo ... this makes me circle back ...
> 
> ...


Hmmm. I cant find those from amazon.de. Can you post a link? Not buying though. I have my hopes up for the EX.


----------



## Caipirina

J_3000 said:


> Hmmm. I cant find those from amazon.de. Can you post a link? Not buying though. I have my hopes up for the EX.


you might not be able to see them as they are being shipped directly from beyerdynamics (not amazon) and they possibly restrict the offer to Germany / Austria / Switzerland ... try here 

I ordered from Beyer direct and got 10% off (i am currently in Germany) 

as for the EX ... i am done with stem based and 399€ is a tough pill to swallow for me ...


----------



## Phaethon

OG10 said:


> Has anyone tried the B&O Ex? - Is there a cheaper alternative or is it worth picking up.
> I am only interested in SQ


I’ve got them and really am impressed with the sound quality. But that’s my ears and not yours. I think they are definitely worth hearing to see if they impress your ears. So, if you can, get them from somewhere with a generous returns policy. I am having the imbalanced earbud power drain, and they seem kind of features weak to me for the price, so I am leaning towards returning them. 
As far as cheaper alternatives - every other TWS is a cheaper alternative! It’s all down to sound signatures and you’re the only one who knows what you like. Happy hunting!


----------



## Tenlow

Caipirina said:


> Ok, some detail questions regarding the Free Byrds:
> Is it possible to disable the single tap in the app? That is a recipe for disaster, every time I need to adjust the fit ...
> 
> What's the situation on multipoint? I saw one bad review on amazon blasting the Byrds for not even having the most rudimenatry form of MP .. while there is one review on YT saying they remember up to 6 devices ...
> ...


No, single tap cannot be disabled. However, not even once has that been a problem so far. They are big enough to avoid that entirely  So, this really isn't a problem at all.

Multipoint, aka two devices at the same time, is not there (yet?). That said, of course they remember previously paired devices, not sure how many exactly, though. Usually it's something between 6 and 8 devices or so. I have them paired to my iPhone and my MacBook e.g. and switching between the two is very easy. Just press connect in the Bluetooth menu, that's it. They will immediately connect to that devices then. No previous unpairing or so needed.


----------



## Tenlow

OG10 said:


> Has anyone tried the B&O Ex? - Is there a cheaper alternative or is it worth picking up.
> I am only interested in SQ


Yes, there are several impressions/reviews in here already, including mine. The EX are great buds, very good sounding. One of the best TWS out there for pure sound quality, They have a great build quality, a good fit, multipoint bluetooth, an IP57 certification and an extended three year warranty even once you register them in the app. Call quality is good. Really lots to like there. 

They are not perfect, however. ANC and transparency mode are only average, the touch surfaces are a bit small for my personal liking, battery life is "only" decent and they are obviously very expensive! For reference, I bought the MTW3 and the Free Byrd combined for 6€ less than the 399 I paid for the EX and both are really great buds, too. 

If money is no object, they are great. I would personally prefer the MTW3 as well as the Free Byrd, though, all things considered.


----------



## erockg

Phaethon said:


> I’m cycling through all the gems in my jewel box and am spending some quality time with my FoKus Pros. They are so sweet and every time I wear them I forget all the others!
> But… was there ever a firmware update? I don’t find anything about a firmware check in the app and I can’t get the answer from Google!
> Thanks as always


Never saw an update for all the time I owned them.  I did get an update for the Falcon ANC when I had them.  That bud uses it's own Falcon ANC app.


----------



## stacey

To add, the noise isolation of the EX leaves something to be desired. And this is with me tip rolling with Azylas and Spinfit.


----------



## Fleeple

stacey said:


> To add, the noise isolation of the EX leaves something to be desired. And this is with me tip rolling with Azylas and Spinfit.


It's truly nonexistent; I have a hard time telling the difference between anc and nothing. Returning soon 😅


----------



## Devodonaldson

cattboy said:


> Interesting you say this.  Win11 (future state) and android 13 beta will have LC3 baked in.
> 
> TWS or Headsets only offer mono audio if using a mic, unless some combination of RF & Bluetooth is used by manufacturer that allows two way stereo to work.  That combination generally only works on PC or Mac, (requires USB dongle or hub) leaving the smartphone/device audience left out with horribly sounding calls (voip/etc).
> 
> ...


If you have a Samsung phone, using Galaxy Buds Pro with Samsung scalable Codec, gaming mode and turn off a2dp hardware offload in developer settings, there is NO noticeable lag whatsoever.  I mean Call of Duty shots sound and trigger pull are totally in sync!


----------



## erockg

stacey said:


> To add, the noise isolation of the EX leaves something to be desired. And this is with me tip rolling with Azylas and Spinfit.





Fleeple said:


> It's truly nonexistent; I have a hard time telling the difference between anc and nothing. Returning soon 😅


Awful for sure.  Which is surprising because the EQ are actually decent.  But the EX destroys it in sound quality.  Fit and sound of the EX is just plain awesome IMO.


----------



## DigDub (Jul 25, 2022)

Size comparison between pixel buds pro and Sony xm4.

The Sony case is shorter but thicker and longer than the pixel buds pro case.












The pixel buds pro is much smaller than the Sony. The official photos make the pixel buds pro look bigger as they are taken on the side which is actually a long wide nozzle that goes into the ear.










The battery life so far is pretty impressive. 1 hour with adaptive ANC on uses about 10-15% battery life, Google's claims about the battery life looks to be holding up.

I use this EQ setting on my Samsung phone to tame the bass and the slightly hot treble.


----------



## Caipirina

Can someone explain to me, in layman’s terms, what’s up with Nura’s claim of lossless audio? They make it sound they re-invented the wheel …


----------



## RumbleWeed (Jul 25, 2022)

Good day my freind's need a bit of advice?
Im a total die hard Audiophile Basshead who owns some nice wired iem's including Mest Mk2,EE Bravado mk2 Several IMR Ect.. I have some cheap TWS and absaloutly love the ease of use! So i have decided to pick up a pair of the TOTL TWS. I have the list down to
Noble Fokus Pro
Senn MTW3
Sony X4's
B&W P17
Technics AZ60
As i say im a pure basshead but also an audiophile at heart so other than well textured,deep deep Sub-bass i also want some lush  midrange with great resolution & Clarity and well extended treble with some nice sparkle & air with good micro detail retrevial. Also i would like a good soundstage with very good instrument seperation.
One last question in general? With average use how long would the batteries last in TWS Buds & Case with average usage(a couple hours a day 4-5 days a week)? The reason I ask is paying £329 for the Fokus Pro(my no1) and after a year or so the battery begins to go downhill and not holding charge like they once did!  If this is the case it may be better to get 2 or 3 midrange models like the Lypertek Z3 2.0, FILL ect...


----------



## OG10

Thanks for the input gents went for the EX direct via b&o shall post some impressions.


----------



## Tenlow (Jul 25, 2022)

The rtings review / measurements of the Sennheiser MTW3 is online btw. Just in case someone is interested:

https://www.rtings.com/headphones/reviews/sennheiser/momentum-true-wireless-3

Pretty favourable, all things considered, and one of the better TWS results there. The treble measures pretty bad there, though. Haven't noticed that much in real life but there's always the EQ treble slider in the app 

Edit: It's even "the best" they have tested yet. 

See: 

https://www.rtings.com/headphones/reviews/best/wireless-bluetooth-earbuds-in-ear-headphones

They haven't tested many great ones yet, though (e.g. the EX or the Free Byrd amongst others).

Still, pretty good around result for the MTW3.


----------



## cresny (Jul 25, 2022)

DigDub said:


> Size comparison between pixel buds pro and Sony xm4.
> 
> The Sony case is shorter but thicker and longer than the pixel buds pro case.
> 
> ...


Thanks for these posts! I pre-ordered with a 10% discount but they're not due to ship before 8/1. I'm seduced by all the Google tech claims (custom processors, etc), hoping for stand-out ANC, or stand-out anything for that matter, but I'm guessing that, hype aside, these won't be better than the Technics az60s I have. I'm happy you have the Sonys to compare with, looking forward to thoughts there, in particular how their call clarity is in comparison.


----------



## natalieann

The noise cancelling of the Sony XM4 is BY FAR the best! I'm a B&O fan, but these Sony's have me sold


----------



## scubaphish (Jul 25, 2022)

RumbleWeed said:


> Good day my freind's need a bit of advice?
> Im a total die hard Audiophile Basshead who owns some nice wired iem's including Mest Mk2,EE Bravado mk2 Several IMR Ect.. I have some cheap TWS and absaloutly love the ease of use! So i have decided to pick up a pair of the TOTL TWS. I have the list down to
> Noble Fokus Pro
> Senn MTW3
> ...


Allow me to add that the battery life on the FoKus Pro is terrific. Definitely better than the PI7.

Edit: and yes, they are bass canons


----------



## erockg

RumbleWeed said:


> Good day my freind's need a bit of advice?
> Im a total die hard Audiophile Basshead who owns some nice wired iem's including Mest Mk2,EE Bravado mk2 Several IMR Ect.. I have some cheap TWS and absaloutly love the ease of use! So i have decided to pick up a pair of the TOTL TWS. I have the list down to
> Noble Fokus Pro
> Senn MTW3
> ...


If you're an audiophile and want the best sound on your list, go with the NFP.  3 driver.  Beautiful soundstage, clarity and punch.  That said, I'm using the Noble Fokus H-ANC for the last 4 days and they're and incredible value.  I'd say 80-85% of what the Pro are and they fit perfect.  Do a search on here too via the upper left.  We've all been talking about the ones one your list since the dawn of time


----------



## kDbJ

Caipirina said:


> Can someone explain to me, in layman’s terms, what’s up with Nura’s claim of lossless audio? They make it sound they re-invented the wheel …



PersonaLLy - i Don't care. But wait... since the NuRATRuE for me have: good enough "personaLized" sound; good enough "sociaL mode"; good enough ANC; good enough app and...(this one wiLL be puzzLing) - since i Have them for a one year time yet, i'Ve never even thought about buying other TWS (honestLy, iT's not entireLy true: i bought one more NuRATRuE in a good bargain, as a backup one, reaLLy!).       

But what then...   So....

....There iS one LittLe thing, and i Reserve that this iS my opinion as a strictLy jungLe drum & BaSSHEaD.... The LittLe thing, idea, which fuLLy deserves NobLe, PuLLitzer, Grammy award, any prize (You name iT):                      The abiLity of controL THE BaSS ("immersion") from the earbuds touch paneL (!!!) For me: This iS simpLy pure goLd...            No, wait - there iS more (???!!!): i Forgot about HiGH GAiN! They are tremendousLy Louuuuud! 

Once again - i Don't care iTs LossLes or not - i'M sure NuRATRuE PRO wiLL not disappoint me anyway, i Was just waiting for muLtipoint and Longer working time. aLso i Can Live without wireLess charging, but i Won't be picky since they give iT anyway 

Sorry, caipirina, that i Was so far from the main topic


----------



## helmutcheese




----------



## navii

So did anyone try the YAMAHA TW-E7B yet? I had them for a few days (made a thread actually) till the right driver died. I quite enjoyed them and will probably buy them again when they are on special again (Amazon wouldn't offer a replacement, just a refund).


----------



## erockg

navii said:


> So did anyone try the YAMAHA TW-E7B yet? I had them for a few days (made a thread actually) till the right driver died. I quite enjoyed them and will probably buy them again when they are on special again (Amazon wouldn't offer a replacement, just a refund).


Yup.  Had them but sold due to fit issues.  Similar to the Beyerdynamic Free Byrd fit issues I had.  They did sound great though, not as good as the Free  Byrd imo.


----------



## DigDub

cresny said:


> Thanks for these posts! I pre-ordered with a 10% discount but they're not due to ship before 8/1. I'm seduced by all the Google tech claims (custom processors, etc), hoping for stand-out ANC, or stand-out anything for that matter, but I'm guessing that, hype aside, these won't be better than the Technics az60s I have. I'm happy you have the Sonys to compare with, looking forward to thoughts there, in particular how their call clarity is in comparison.


Haven't had much chance to try calls with it yet. The ANC is currently in adaptive mode, until the app is out which may allow turning off the adaptive mode, I can't say definitively how effective it is. It is actively adjusting the level of ANC and transparency, for eg, if there's a vehicle passing by, the mic will pick it up and let in the sound of the vehicle through, presumably for safety. If I'm in a quiet environment, I can tell that the ANC is turned off automatically.


----------



## xSDMx

Reading some anecdotes about the Pixel Buds Pro vs Pixel Buds 2/A and it sounds like comparatively speaking the low volume issues are fixed. It looks like we'll also get LC3 codec support with Android 13.


----------



## bladefd (Jul 25, 2022)

erockg said:


> If you're an audiophile and want the best sound on your list, go with the NFP.  3 driver.  Beautiful soundstage, clarity and punch.  That said, I'm using the Noble Fokus H-ANC for the last 4 days and they're and incredible value.  I'd say 80-85% of what the Pro are and they fit perfect.  Do a search on here too via the upper left.  We've all been talking about the ones one your list since the dawn of time


But are the H-Anc above the mtw3? You tried both so I would be curious.


----------



## bladefd

kDbJ said:


> PersonaLLy - i Don't care. But wait... since the NuRATRuE for me have: good enough "personaLized" sound; good enough "sociaL mode"; good enough ANC; good enough app and...(this one wiLL be puzzLing) - since i Have them for a one year time yet, i'Ve never even thought about buying other TWS (honestLy, iT's not entireLy true: i bought one more NuRATRuE in a good bargain, as a backup one, reaLLy!).
> 
> But what then...   So....
> 
> ...


I became dizzy reading your post lol


----------



## erockg

bladefd said:


> But are the H-Anc above the mtw3? You tried both so I would be curious.


Sound, yes, but not ANC.  I also prefer the fit of the H-ANC.  But they do not have wireless charging like the MTW3.  I had the MTW3 twice and returned them.  I just can't get into the Sennie TWS sound sig.


----------



## BigZ12

Bought Senn' white MTW3 for $80 yesterday. On Elkjop, Norwegian webshop. Pretty cheap


----------



## Tenlow

BigZ12 said:


> Bought Senn' white MTW3 for $80 yesterday. On Elkjop, Norwegian webshop. Pretty cheap


Wow, if that actually ever gets shipped and wasn't just a mistake on their side...then congrats!


----------



## BigZ12

Tenlow said:


> Wow, if that actually ever gets shipped and wasn't just a mistake on their side...then congrats!


It says estimated delivery tomorrow, so just have to wait and see


----------



## Tenlow

BigZ12 said:


> It says estimated delivery tomorrow, so just have to wait and see


Any idea why they sold it for a price that low?


----------



## BigZ12

Tenlow said:


> Any idea why they sold it for a price that low?


Nope, the black is about $280...


----------



## Juturna

BigZ12 said:


> Bought Senn' white MTW3 for $80 yesterday. On Elkjop, Norwegian webshop. Pretty cheap


Damn, that's a steal! I think it's obviously an error on their part (it's back up to normal price now anyway), but I hope they uphold their side of the deal even if it was an error. 

I had a similar thing happen with the MTW2s where they were accidentally lowered by half here in Sweden and the store tried to fight me and say that I wouldn't get them for that price, but after a bit of a struggle they knew that they were ****ed and were kinda forced to sell them at that price.


----------



## subguy812

I should have some Free Byrd's gliding in around Thursday.  Have kept my expectations low, hope to be surprised.


----------



## Tenlow

subguy812 said:


> I should have some Free Byrd's gliding in around Thursday.  Have kept my expectations low, hope to be surprised.


If they fit your ear and stay put (and you try out the sound personalization properly), I think you will be positively surprised


----------



## March78

erockg said:


> Sound, yes, but not ANC.  I also prefer the fit of the H-ANC.  But they do not have wireless charging like the MTW3.  I had the MTW3 twice and returned them.  I just can't get into the Sennie TWS sound sig.


Same here for the MTW3’s. ANC is pretty good and the sound is also not bad, but I just don't enjoy it. Sounds a bit dull / too laid back to me, especially vocals. Going to sell them.

B&O EX on the other hand are much nicer soundwise with really enjoyable vocals. But here the ANC is so poor that commuting with these is really not an option for me, too much distraction with all the noises around me.

Why can't we have the best of both worlds?😋


----------



## subguy812 (Jul 26, 2022)

I don't think the ANC is "poor" on the EX, it is mediocre IMO. I do notice it is slow to kick-in, a few seconds. I do not commute with them so I could see with that use, yes maybe not good. While the design lends to comfort, I am not so sure it lends itself to passive noise cancellation or isolation. The Comply tips can help.  ANC effectiveness will depend on your usage needs, situations etc.

If ANC is the most important feature to someone, there are obvious better, well chronicled options. Sony and Bose.


----------



## Tenlow

subguy812 said:


> I don't think the ANC is "poor" on the EX, it is mediocre IMO. I do notice it is slow to kick-in, a few seconds. I do not commute with them so I could see with that use, yes maybe not good. While the design lends to comfort, I am not so sure it lends itself to passive noise cancellation or isolation. The Comply tips can help.  ANC will depend on your usage needs, situations etc.
> 
> If ANC is the most important feature to someone, there are obvious better, well chronicled options. Sony and Bose.


I also think ANC is mediocre on the EX and passive isolation (due to design mainly) is quite poor, honestly. Not an ideal combination for commuting at all.

The MTW3 have very good ANC as well as really good passive isolation. They also barely leak any sound to the outside at all (look at the rtings test for that). So, the MTW3 are, imo, very good TWS for commuting. 

I tend to also like the sound of them very much. Not as good as the EX or the Free Byrd but they are pretty much an extremely good allround package to me.


----------



## March78

subguy812 said:


> I don't think the ANC is "poor" on the EX, it is mediocre IMO. I do notice it is slow to kick-in, a few seconds. I do not commute with them so I could see with that use, yes maybe not good. While the design lends to comfort, I am not so sure it lends itself to passive noise cancellation or isolation. The Comply tips can help.  ANC will depend on your usage needs, situations etc.
> 
> If ANC is the most important feature to someone, there are obvious better, well chronicled options. Sony and Bose.


Had the XM4's, ANC is good (although not much better than MTW3 in my opinion) but average sound quality.
Also had MTW3 and AZ60, both not bad and better than XM4 in sound quality, but still leave something to be desired.
EX the best so far except for ANC.

Sound quality is most important for me but also need good ANC.
The search continues..


----------



## clerkpalmer

March78 said:


> Why can't we have the best of both worlds?😋


Good question. Give me bose level anc and ex level sound and I’ll probably pay $400 to $500 for them.


----------



## Fleeple (Jul 26, 2022)

About 48 hours left if you want to back the nuratrue pro on kickstarter, and they still have 37 or so kickstarter earlybird packages if anyone is interested. These do look pretty stellar 😊

https://www.kickstarter.com/project...ossless-audio-earbuds-with-personalised-sound


----------



## clerkpalmer

Fleeple said:


> About 48 hours left if you want to back the nuratrue pro on kickstarter, and they still have 37 or so kickstarter earlybird packages of anyone is interested. These do look pretty stellar 😊
> 
> https://www.kickstarter.com/project...ossless-audio-earbuds-with-personalised-sound


Not sure what to think of these. Currently on an iPhone so for now I’m not seeing the benefits. I wonder if Samsung will adopt the lossless standard.


----------



## March78

clerkpalmer said:


> Good question. Give me bose level anc and ex level sound and I’ll probably pay $400 to $500 for them.


Same 👍🏻


----------



## BigZ12

Juturna said:


> Damn, that's a steal! I think it's obviously an error on their part (it's back up to normal price now anyway), but I hope they uphold their side of the deal even if it was an error.
> 
> I had a similar thing happen with the MTW2s where they were accidentally lowered by half here in Sweden and the store tried to fight me and say that I wouldn't get them for that price, but after a bit of a struggle they knew that they were ****ed and were kinda forced to sell them at that price.


It's shipped, and will arrive tomorrow


----------



## Tenlow

BigZ12 said:


> It's shipped, and will arrive tomorrow


If you don't like them, let me know. I'll give you 120  Congratulations!


----------



## mikp (Jul 26, 2022)

Any noticeable difference between the mtw2 and mtw3 ? Had mtw2 since release and like it very much. Did an impulse buy when I got 66% of some new mtw3 

Either keep them or flip them on

Ahh, I see someone else jumped on this deal


----------



## Tenlow

mikp said:


> Any noticeable difference between the mtw2 and mtw3 ? Had mtw2 since release and like it very much. Did an impulse buy when I got 66% of some new mtw2.
> 
> Either keep them or flip them on


Well, 😂

Couple of differences include:

- Much better ANC (it's also adaptive)
- Much louder sound (better imo as well)
- Better/more ergonomic fit (+ ear fins)
- A bit smaller and slightly lighter buds
- Single bud usage 
- Wireless Charging compatible
- Slightly better battery life 
- No white noise issue
- Aptx adaptive codec
- Case is a slightly less wide

They are basically everything the MTW2 should have been and then some.


----------



## mikp

Tenlow said:


> Well, 😂
> 
> Couple of differences include:
> 
> ...


Ok, maybe try to sell the mtw2 then.


----------



## tiagopinto

BigZ12 said:


> Bought Senn' white MTW3 for $80 yesterday. On Elkjop, Norwegian webshop. Pretty cheap



I went STRAIGHT for that website... it’s all in Norwegian... but I’ll keep trying...



Tenlow said:


> Wow, if that actually ever gets shipped and wasn't just a mistake on their side...then congrats!



I hope the “mistake” is still there. Fingers crossed.


----------



## tiagopinto

BigZ12 said:


> Nope, the black is about $280...



For 80€ I’d also buy them without blinking. 

The White are not there anymore and the Black are at 278€... oh well, I do hope you get yours.


----------



## bladefd

Fleeple said:


> About 48 hours left if you want to back the nuratrue pro on kickstarter, and they still have 37 or so kickstarter earlybird packages if anyone is interested. These do look pretty stellar 😊
> 
> https://www.kickstarter.com/project...ossless-audio-earbuds-with-personalised-sound


They look too big so might have fitting issues.


----------



## BigZ12

tiagopinto said:


> For 80€ I’d also buy them without blinking.
> 
> The White are not there anymore and the Black are at 278€... oh well, I do hope you get yours.


https://www.power.no/tv-og-lyd/hode...iser-momentum-true-wireless-3-hvit/p-1376362/

$182, but not in stock before 1st of August?


----------



## Caipirina

kDbJ said:


> PersonaLLy - i Don't care. But wait... since the NuRATRuE for me have: good enough "personaLized" sound; good enough "sociaL mode"; good enough ANC; good enough app and...(this one wiLL be puzzLing) - since i Have them for a one year time yet, i'Ve never even thought about buying other TWS (honestLy, iT's not entireLy true: i bought one more NuRATRuE in a good bargain, as a backup one, reaLLy!).
> 
> But what then...   So....
> 
> ...


Your response is much appreciated ... but duuuuude, what's going on with your keyboard?


----------



## scarfacegt

BigZ12 said:


> Bought Senn' white MTW3 for $80 yesterday. On Elkjop, Norwegian webshop. Pretty cheap


I bougt them on power saturday for full price.I saw the price on elkjop ( prisjakt ),but it suddenly changed to double price and then normal price.And it was the white one.I bought the black one.But if for 80 dollars i rather had the white one.You did a very good deal.I have just listened a little bit on mine,and i think they sound very good.


----------



## LastFantasy

World's 1st Dolby ATMOS Earbuds

https://www.lg.com/uk/true-wireless-earbuds/lg-tone-ut90q


----------



## C_Lindbergh

LastFantasy said:


> World's 1st Dolby ATMOS Earbuds
> 
> https://www.lg.com/uk/true-wireless-earbuds/lg-tone-ut90q


Wow, that's plenty of features...! I will probably check them out. 

LG also knows how to advertise


----------



## xSDMx (Jul 27, 2022)

LastFantasy said:


> World's 1st Dolby ATMOS Earbuds
> 
> https://www.lg.com/uk/true-wireless-earbuds/lg-tone-ut90q


These might be the kitchen sink of TWS. Atmos, Meridian audio, Snapdragon audio, wireless charging, FIVE device multipoint pairing, ANC, transparency mode, and... a UV sanitizing case!?


----------



## erockg

xSDMx said:


> These might be the kitchen sink of TWS. Atmos/Meridian, Snapdragon audio, wireless charging, FIVE device multipoint pairing, ANC, transparency mode, and... UV sanitizing case!?


We only need a release date!


----------



## Phaethon

xSDMx said:


> These might be the kitchen sink of TWS. Atmos/Meridian, Snapdragon audio, wireless charging, FIVE device multipoint pairing, ANC, transparency mode, and... UV sanitizing case!?


The LG Tone Free FP9 are awesome! The sound is stellar given their tiny size. They are small enough and fit well, so I can side sleep in them comfortably. There are a ton of features and it looks like this upgrade has only added and hopefully improved them. I can’t wait to see!

The FP9 are on sale at Amazon US for 35% off right now. I’d truly grab them and give them a try!


----------



## xSDMx

erockg said:


> We only need a release date!


That's the catch! Every feature, ever except featuring a release date.


----------



## jant71

LG/ Meridian vs. Huawai/Devialet??


----------



## xSDMx

jant71 said:


> LG/ Meridian vs. Huawai/Devialet??


I'm team LG until the bitter end. Does Huawei have a UV sanitizing charging case? Didn't think so!


----------



## mikp

BigZ12 said:


> It's shipped, and will arrive tomorrow


Mine has also shipped, wonder why that price?


----------



## xuan87

jant71 said:


> LG/ Meridian vs. Huawai/Devialet??



Don't forget Oppo /Dynaudio too haha.

I own the LG FP 5 (the FP5, 8 and 9 all sound the same anyway, so I may as well just buy the cheapest one) and I love it, although only on the treble boost eq setting.

I tried the Huawei Freebuds Pro and didn't like it as much. A bit too bass heavy for me, although not as bassy as the Devialet Gemini, and abit too warm for my liking.

Wasn't able to try the Oppo Enco X and I might just pull the trigger and buy the X 2 without prior testing.


----------



## xuan87

LastFantasy said:


> World's 1st Dolby ATMOS Earbuds
> 
> https://www.lg.com/uk/true-wireless-earbuds/lg-tone-ut90q



The number one feature that caught my attention is their claim of pure graphene driver. Because as far as I know, almost all or maybe all headphones and earphones out in market today that claim to use graphene drivers are in reality using a normal dynamic driver coated with graphene, instead of having the diaphragm entirely made out of a single graphene film.


----------



## BigZ12

mikp said:


> Mine has also shipped, wonder why that price?


Nobody buys the white ones?


----------



## Tenlow

BigZ12 said:


> Nobody buys the white ones?


Not likely at all, no. Just a mistake on their part is the most likely explanation for it.


----------



## C_Lindbergh (Jul 27, 2022)

Is the UV-sanitation just a gimmick or does it offer anything actually useful?

I'm also really curious to what kind of latency and sound quality will be achived with the USB transmitter option?


----------



## jant71 (Jul 27, 2022)

xuan87 said:


> The number one feature that caught my attention is their claim of pure graphene driver. Because as far as I know, almost all or maybe all headphones and earphones out in market today that claim to use graphene drivers are in reality using a normal dynamic driver coated with graphene, instead of having the diaphragm entirely made out of a single graphene film.


I don't think so. Specs say 11mm + graphene. I think it is coated but they are saying pure graphene cause others coat in graphite or "non-pure" and still call it graphene.

How it sounds is all that matters. I don't pay too much mind cause there is more to a speaker than just the diaphragm.


----------



## Caipirina (Jul 27, 2022)

The Free Byrds have landed! One day earlier than expected. Nice!
Actually my very first Beyerdynamics anything.

Took me a while to actually get to hear music from them: Connection was easy, app I had already installed, but of course, first a FW update ... then set up and hearing test ... there is a fun statistic page in the app that showed me that while the buds already had 1h24m 'uptime', not a single second of music.

Then on to the eartip fitting ... No surprise that XL fit best, I tried L first, but one size up is ideal. I also tried the biggest squishy foam, but I could not achieve seal ...
While the seal with the XL is great, the fit does not feel very stable ... I might steal the spinfits off my XM4 to try them next ... But I am not really planning on running with them anyways ... I can see how fit can be a concern for ppl ... as long as I am not moving too much I am ok ...

Now to the sound

.

.

.

just WOW !!!!

I can't put it in many eloquent words, but these make me happy ...  I think in some review I read 'multilayered' and now I know what they meant .. the separation is excellent .. the dynamic makes me smile ...

The ANC works well, not XM4 / Bose QC level, but very good overall, will test on an actual plane in a week.


----------



## Tenlow

Caipirina said:


> The Free Byrds have landed! One day earlier than expected. Nice!
> Actually my very first Beyerdynamics anything.
> 
> Took me a while to actually get to hear music from them: Connection was easy, app I had already installed, but of course, first a FW update ... then set up and hearing test ... there is a fun statistic page in the app that showed me that while the buds already had 1h24m 'uptime', not a single second of music.
> ...


Great to hear! Love the sound of the Free Byrd as well. My favourite pair of TWS right now even though I still have the MTW3 and the EX


----------



## cresny

C_Lindbergh said:


> Is the UV-sanitation just a gimmick or does it offer anything actually useful?
> 
> I'm also really curious to what kind of latency and sound quality will be achived with the USB transmitter option?


I used mine on the plane a couple weeks ago, watched movies for about four hours or so, battery never quit, and no noticeable latency. As for NC, I replaced the tips from the factory "gel" ones to spin-fits from another set I had with me, and found that if I shoved them down for passive NC, the ANC takes care of the rest. Next time I'm bringing a tips bag with me . 

As for the UV, it looks really cool. ?


----------



## jant71 (Jul 27, 2022)

UV Nano was a little used feature that was given a second life with Covid. I can take it or leave it. It doesn't come for free as it does use battery life. I can appreciate it at times after being sporty and getting a little sweaty.


----------



## clerkpalmer (Jul 27, 2022)

Fokus - H Anc arrived!  First impressions are that these are the all round Noble's we have been waiting for.  I haven't heard they Beyers but this is the best sounding TWS I've heard in the $200 price bracket.  They don't quite provide the depth that the Pro does but they are pretty damn good.  I think a little burn in may open them up even more. 
ANC is solid but they have really good passive isolation to go with the ANC which makes them above-average overall.  The nicest surprise is that the new shell, stem and shallow tips fit great.  I am getting a good seal and stable fit on the stock setup.  As always, the Noble App is terrific particularly for those on iphones with no system wide EQ.  It fun to learn that my hearing is so shot that bumping the 8k and 16k up to the max makes no discernable difference to my ears.  Oh yeah, and the purple shell is awesome.

Edit - at the risk of sounding fanboyish, I have to give Noble a lot of props for their dedication to the TWS space.  They have been producing excellent TWS products for several years while most other high end audio companies seem to ignore it.


----------



## jant71

Everybody lovin' the purple now!


----------



## erockg

clerkpalmer said:


> Fokus - H Anc arrived!  First impressions are that these are the all round Noble's we have been waiting for.  I haven't heard they Beyers but this is the best sounding TWS I've heard in the $200 price bracket.  They don't quite provide the depth that the Pro does but they are pretty damn good.  I think a little burn in may open them up even more.
> ANC is solid but they have really good passive isolation to go with the ANC which makes them above-average overall.  The nicest surprise is that the new shell, stem and shallow tips fit great.  I am getting a good seal and stable fit on the stock setup.  As always, the Noble App is terrific particularly for those on iphones with no system wide EQ.  It fun to learn that my hearing is so shot that bumping the 8k and 16k up to the max makes no discernable difference to my ears.  Oh yeah, and the purple shell is awesome.
> 
> Edit - at the risk of sounding fanboyish, I have to give Noble a lot of props for their dedication to the TWS space.  They have been producing excellent TWS products for several years while most other high end audio companies seem to ignore it.


Agree with all your thoughts.  I've been using my every day since receipt.   If I could nitpick, the voice for changing modes talks too slow   Sounds like someones mom or maybe wife.


----------



## bladefd

Surprised Fokus H-Anc is not on Amazon or any other reseller. I guess they probably made a small number of them so kept them on own site. I'm waiting for the blue.

For Android users with the H-anc... Do you guys get the sense of missing aptx? Or is aac sufficient?


----------



## jant71 (Jul 27, 2022)

B&H has the old Kenwood flagship on sale, both Alexa and Google versions for $99




Old but still 5.2 with 8 hours battery life and has Qi charging but it won't have MP and only has up to aptX. 10mm Be drivers and slide control on the buds for ANC and ambient strength adjustment. Still more a "smart" headset and very app based or voice assistant based.
https://www.kenwood.com/usa/smartheadsets/headsets/ws-a1_a1g/cp/


----------



## Caipirina

jant71 said:


> Everybody lovin' the purple now!


or the Beyerdymanic orange


----------



## jant71

In their now successful quest to be the TWS quantity champion, JVC continues the onslaught. Of course the Victor line needs some sports ear phones right? We think Victor we think sports... https://www.victor.jp/press/2022/press-220728/




Also Elecom releasing their first ANC model...



Super light 3.5 grams each side. LL, transparency, ANC, and earplug(ANC w/o a device connection) modes. Interesting that the touch area is at the bottom portion of the stem.


----------



## jant71

Caipirina said:


> or the Beyerdymanic orange


They don't have the guts. They should have done an orange with black trim and tips Free Byrd. I have a couple orange models around here. An Elecom earphone, a Philips sports headphone. I almost bought the Aviot in the orange but while the case looked great the buds didn't.


----------



## mikp

BigZ12 said:


> Nobody buys the white ones?


Looking at finn.no it seems several got that deal


----------



## tiagopinto

BigZ12 said:


> https://www.power.no/tv-og-lyd/hode...iser-momentum-true-wireless-3-hvit/p-1376362/
> 
> $182, but not in stock before 1st of August?



Thanks for the heads-up but it’s actually listed at 2790NOK or 281€...


----------



## jant71 (Jul 28, 2022)

It is big and it is one that in it's time the concept scared people away but I am in for a Kenwood Smart Headset. I will mostly be using it as a true wireless. Should have it by tomorrow since B&H is not far away from me and expedited shipping is included free. Few impressions but all good. If the person with this collection gave them 5 stars I see no reason not to try for $99...



Could be cool though with directions in the car or checking the weather. Some Google assistant stuff might be fun at times.


----------



## LordToneeus

Received my 7hz Dioko’s just now. Connected them to my Fiio UTWS5, and I am very pleased with this purchase. My first set of planars. They sure are pretty too.


----------



## erockg

jant71 said:


> It is big and it is one that in it's time the concept scared people away but I am in for a Kenwood Smart Headset. I will mostly be using it as a true wireless. Should have it by tomorrow since B&H is not far away from me and expedited shipping is included free. Few impressions but all good. If the person with this collection gave them 5 stars I see no reason not to try for $99...
> 
> Could be cool though with directions in the car or checking the weather. Some Google assistant stuff might be fun at times.


Can't find any reviews out there.  Curious, but man, I can never seem to fit those styles in my ears well.  Please do report back when you have them in hand!


----------



## jant71 (Jul 28, 2022)

erockg said:


> Can't find any reviews out there.  Curious, but man, I can never seem to fit those styles in my ears well.  Please do report back when you have them in hand!




Very odd the concept of smart headset seemed scared people. JVC using Indiegogo to fund it and test out what people thought in November 2020. Think it only got like $1,200 and 5 backers @$199 early bird. They showed up on Amazon on Jan 4, 2021. Obviously $329 scared many off as well. Handful of Japanese customer type reviews and an impression in a Phileweb article. No questions or reviews on Amazon.




Still the JVC fish mouth nozzle and oval part to go in the ear. Think they should fit me fine. Not sure about with the stock tips though. Looks like a good wind break with the shape and they put the touch strip in. At least if they are big they put the size to use. Nice touch panel to adjust volume, ANC, and ambient levels. These do seem smaller on the inside than others like the XM3 and Philips Fidelio.


----------



## jant71 (Jul 28, 2022)

Did not really get along as well as I thought with my Aviot...




Well regarded and an Amazon's Choice but they had been sitting in the drawer. Couple days ago I brought them out to check again since I got the MEE tips and the EPro TWS tips now. Bang, boom, I peeled the screens off and stuck them on wax paper for future use and slapped the EPro on them and damn if they are not my favorite sounding right now. They have the W sound with up front mids so they had a good tuning but the screens gone and the EPro fix the tone just enough. Screens gone make them a bit crisper and dynamic. The good mids up front and the bass is a little bubbly down low with some feel and crisp snares up higher with speed and a proper less impression of feel. Fun, fun bass. Guitars are even better. They really groove. The Aviot have always had good placement and imaging and decent depth. A little more dynamic and the truer tone makes a noticeable difference. Treble is still up well as part of the "W" sig but just right even w/o the screens. Well behaved as far as peaks and cymbals are neither buried/smoothed over nor aggressive. Toe tapping bass, groovalizer guitar and upper bass notes, just right mids and well integrated fairly correct treble in a good 3D soundscape with some new found clarity and sharpness of note. A bit cleaner than the Yamaha. I can't say they destroy them but they are better. They do kick them on engaging and pulling me in to a more lively and better presented performance. Contemplating removing the screens from my SoundMagic as they are second favorite now still a bit ahead of the Yamaha E5B. Always nice to take one out of the drawer tweak it and be rewarded.


----------



## clerkpalmer

bladefd said:


> Surprised Fokus H-Anc is not on Amazon or any other reseller. I guess they probably made a small number of them so kept them on own site. I'm waiting for the blue.
> 
> For Android users with the H-anc... Do you guys get the sense of missing aptx? Or is aac sufficient?


I’d be reluctant to buy an AAC tws for use on Android. Per sound guys, aac implementation on Android can be iffy. I think there are better options for android users. Kind of surprised they skipped the Aptx.


----------



## jant71

clerkpalmer said:


> I’d be reluctant to buy an AAC tws for use on Android. Per sound guys, aac implementation on Android can be iffy. I think there are better options for android users. Kind of surprised they skipped the Aptx.


Interesting in that scenario, Falcon ANC vs. Fokus H ANC for sound anyway. On Android, Falcon with the Snapdragon sound capable aptX adaptive and FoKus H ANC with AAC but adding an armature.


----------



## erockg

jant71 said:


> Interesting in that scenario, Falcon ANC vs. Fokus H ANC for sound anyway. On Android, Falcon with the Snapdragon sound capable aptX adaptive and FoKus H ANC with AAC but adding an armature.


I had both, but I'm in the Apple eco, so AAC only.  I do prefer the H-ANC by far.  Use the H-ANC every day.  

That said, today I'm obsessing about the new Adidas buds because of the deal.  Well worth the price here: https://www.adidas.com/us/headphones  picked up the 01 and 02 and used Honey to get over $20 more back.


----------



## clerkpalmer (Jul 28, 2022)

jant71 said:


> Interesting in that scenario, Falcon ANC vs. Fokus H ANC for sound anyway. On Android, Falcon with the Snapdragon sound capable aptX adaptive and FoKus H ANC with AAC but adding an armature.


I’d go with the H ANC as between the two. I never cared for the sound on the Falcon.


----------



## SynaestheticA

Caipirina said:


> The Free Byrds have landed! One day earlier than expected. Nice!
> Actually my very first Beyerdynamics anything.
> 
> Took me a while to actually get to hear music from them: Connection was easy, app I had already installed, but of course, first a FW update ... then set up and hearing test ... there is a fun statistic page in the app that showed me that while the buds already had 1h24m 'uptime', not a single second of music.
> ...


Nice review, I love the Beyer sound, makes any music sound nice, do you think they are secure enough for running + workouts?


----------



## Luke Skywalker

BooleanBones said:


> Exact combo I am listening to at this very moment.


UTWS5 + Monarch mk2 sounds nice too


----------



## Luke Skywalker

erockg said:


> This week, or all time?  Ha ha!
> 
> Not necessarily in this order, but: Noble Audio Fokus Pro, B&O Beoplay EQ, M&D MW08 Sport, Thieaudio Monarch MK2 on the FiiO UTWS5 adapters, SeeAudio Midnight on the Shure TW2 adapter, Shure Aonic Free, LG Tone Free FP8, Sony Linkbuds, Black Colorware Apple AirPods Pro, B&W PI7, AirPods Max.  My list will be dwindling soon to add the new breeds.


Awesome collection my friend!  I’m using the Monarch MK2 + FiiO UTWS5 too. I still have the UTWS3 but no IEMs to connect to them. My JH Lola don’t fit in the case. 

I wonder what would be good to pick up?  Maybe something in the sub $1K range


----------



## Luke Skywalker

clerkpalmer said:


> Take it from this old man with tinnitus from hell. Protect your ears. If you need to max it, something is wrong. Sorry for the lecture but I’m telling you you don’t want what I have.


That sucks… I was getting a ringing a month or so ago and cut way back on volume and use my open ear headphones where I can. It went away fortunately


----------



## Luke Skywalker

bladefd said:


> Do you find the Gemini stick out too much? They look a bit large in photos.
> 
> I do often use tws in bed while reading a book so I find myself wondering if taps would register with pillow rubbing against it. Especially if it sticks out too much


Ya I like the Geminis a lot but there’s no way a side sleeper could wear them. I also get a thumping sound on the treadmill or even when i chew food. But aside from those activities they sound pretty great


----------



## erockg

Luke Skywalker said:


> Awesome collection my friend!  I’m using the Monarch MK2 + FiiO UTWS5 too. I still have the UTWS3 but no IEMs to connect to them. My JH Lola don’t fit in the case.
> 
> I wonder what would be good to pick up?  Maybe something in the sub $1K range


I swapped out my MK2s and have been using the Sennheiser IE600 and the Moondrop S8 on the Fiio UTWS3 and Shure TW2 Gen 2.  Honestly, I'm enjoying them much more!


----------



## nekonhime

jant71 said:


> B&H has the old Kenwood flagship on sale, both Alexa and Google versions for $99
> 
> Old but still 5.2 with 8 hours battery life and has Qi charging but it won't have MP and only has up to aptX. 10mm Be drivers and slide control on the buds for ANC and ambient strength adjustment. Still more a "smart" headset and very app based or voice assistant based.
> https://www.kenwood.com/usa/smartheadsets/headsets/ws-a1_a1g/cp/


Can you tell me how they sound?


----------



## jant71 (Jul 29, 2022)

nekonhime said:


> Can you tell me how they sound?


Later on today I can. 


Nuarl releasing new tips....




One type silicone and one type foam. Not sure if any are very excited by them. I know the Block Ear+ that came with the N6 Pro 2 made the bass sound noticeably less than it was capable. The words "blanket", "wooly", and "syrupy" come to mind. Hopefully they did better. Guess these are what will be included with their X47 and X77 TWS when they drop.


----------



## Luke Skywalker

dyh said:


> Thanks for the info, and hopefully you can find something that's ideal for you.
> 
> Did you try AZLA Xelastec, or AZLA Crystal Tips?
> 
> ...


My favorite ones are _Acoustune AET08 Eartip_


----------



## Luke Skywalker

BigZ12 said:


> I sold the Geminis due to the pops I got with chewing etc..
> 
> Trying to explain this...
> When putting a finger in the ears, and chew, I feel movements in the jaw affecting the inside of the left ear canal that's noticably different vs the right ear.
> ...


Same exact issue for me


----------



## Luke Skywalker

jant71 said:


> Not too bad... https://www.amazon.com/T5-True-Wire...71f1c&pd_rd_wg=Wgc9O&pd_rd_i=B088S7FYZ4&psc=1
> 
> The Mclaren Sport with the charging pad for $99. If you don't want the pad the non-Mclaren Sport in black is only $79. If you want the Mclaren T5-II ANC model they are $149.


I wonder if anyone else is having this issue with the Mcclaren. If mine sit in the case for a while, they automatically connect to my iPhone. My theory is that when the case battery is fully drained, they automatically turn on. And when I open the app at that point I can’t find the buds


----------



## jant71

Charging this beast as we speak...

Got the cool hidden LED thing going....


----------



## erockg

jant71 said:


> Charging this beast as we speak...
> 
> Got the cool hidden LED thing going....


Stick that sucker in your front shirt pocket.  Could save you in a gunfight.


----------



## Tommy C

jant71 said:


> Charging this beast as we speak...
> 
> Got the cool hidden LED thing going....



Eagerly waiting to read your take. 
I don’t need anything new but I definitely like odd stuff lol


----------



## smith

Heads up Guys & Girls …UK retailer Hifiheadphones are have a Camjam sale this weekend … They have the noble audio FoKus Pro going for only  £199


----------



## Juturna

smith said:


> Heads up Guys & Girls …UK retailer Hifiheadphones are have a Camjam sale this weekend … They have the noble audio FoKus Pro going for only  £199


I am so disappointed now  i already blew all my money earmarked for fun things on other stuff because i had no prospects of new earbuds that were available that seemed worth it, and now the earbuds I've been wanting to check out the most are available for such a good price  FML 
Not to mention I won't be able to afford them until October at the very earliest now. Bummer!


----------



## jant71 (Jul 29, 2022)

Tommy C said:


> Eagerly waiting to read your take.
> I don’t need anything new but I definitely like odd stuff lol



I do think they are a bit of an odd bird. Worth the $99 price of admission. Not really worth it at $300 these days with newer stuff.

Usual JVC lady with an asian accent giving power, pairing, and connected messages. Odd that there is a guy that speaks English with no accent at all will give one message saying the bluetooth is disconnected or device cannot be found. ANC/Ambient/ Voice Enhancement and any other commands do not have voice prompts.

 Case is odd. Cool with the button and easy to open and close with one hand. Is showing fingerprints. It does fit the earphones with tips as long as the Sedna Earfits longer type. Case has the R on the left side and the L on the right side so you have to get used to remembering that. Qi works fine.

The stock tips are good for them and are pretty nice. I am also using the M body pieces. These pieces help them be a bit more stable and can give more iso but they don't lock in like fins. So the buds are only gonna stay in with the ear tip fit and seal. I have had the 9.5 gram weight of the earbuds make them fall out of my ear with some tips I have tried. These will be more picky for fit.

The earphones have wear sensors but seem to only use them to save battery life. Can't shut them off in the app. So, harder to burn them in since they won't play if I am not wearing them. The odd part, like I said, is they only seem to want to save battery. If you take the R out it will shut off and vice versa. Doesn't pause the music. The other side will keep playing but you hear the side you take out stop playing.

App is fine gets the job done but not many features. You can't reassign control functions. You can add voice enhancement and set the levels of VE, ambient, and ANC levels when you cycle with the button. I have ambient and ANC set to high each. You can shut the LED off so it doesn't blink when playing which is good for bedroom situations when you might not want to see it.

Controls are good for me. A bit of a learning curve. L button cycles Ambient, ANC, and Off(gives a double beep). R button just answers and rejects calls. L touch panel swipes up and down for volume. Half swipe for one step. Full swipe for two steps at a time. Tap of L touch panel is Play/pause. R touch panel is 1 tap for play/pause, 2 taps for FF and 3 taps for rewind. Swipe on the R side cycles through the ANC and ambient levels. Tap and hold R pauses music and turns ambient on.

Ambient I really like. A smidge of hiss but otherwise really natural to me and good for voices. Outside of the little bit of hiss I think it is my favorite for how it is presented and interacting with people. ANC is the lower frequency type and is slight in amount but if you fit the earphones right they do have good passive. It can be quite a decent difference from Ambient to how much noise is cancelled. More of it does come from the passive side. ANC doesn't alter the sound outside of hearing what is playing a bit more.

Still want to burn them in and decide on tips but the sound is quite good. Clean and pretty tight out of the box. Big and roomy in all dimensions. Sounds right. No weaknesses. Nothing odd here and happy with this aspect them since I first heard them. Nice volume but not the loudest TWS.

A bit odd or quirky. Still quite good. They show their 1.5 year age with no MP or adaptive and their size is from back before the likes of Sony, JVC, and AT started to make things smaller.


----------



## erockg

smith said:


> Heads up Guys & Girls …UK retailer Hifiheadphones are have a Camjam sale this weekend … They have the noble audio FoKus Pro going for only  £199


That's a STEAL.  Even if you get it shipped to the states with a 5% off coupon, it's only $225.


----------



## jant71

erockg said:


> Can't find any reviews out there.  Curious, but man, I can never seem to fit those styles in my ears well.  Please do report back when you have them in hand!


Pretty sure that trend would continue with these as far as fit. They do a good job with the stock tips being wide with the flair or taper on them. With other more traditional tips some more length or width is probably needed.


----------



## bladefd

Anyone try the Lypertek PurePlay Z7 Triple Hybrid Driver? I would be curious how they compare to Fokus pro


----------



## bladefd

erockg said:


> That's a STEAL.  Even if you get it shipped to the states with a 5% off coupon, it's only $225.


It would be expensive to return if opened.. Says "Products that have contact with the ear, nose or throat *can only be returned for a full refund if sent back with hygiene seals unbroken and in unused condition* (you must exercise reasonable care when evaluating the product as you would in a shop)."

On top of that, there is return cost, which would be out of own pocket.

It would be a costly return for any reason.


----------



## xSDMx

bladefd said:


> Anyone try the Lypertek PurePlay Z7 Triple Hybrid Driver? I would be curious how they compare to Fokus pro


I saw one or two folks post their impressions in this thread about half a year ago. IIRC the sound quality was very good but the build quality, QC, and size/fitment is bad.


----------



## erockg

jant71 said:


> Pretty sure that trend would continue with these as far as fit. They do a good job with the stock tips being wide with the flair or taper on them. With other more traditional tips some more length or width is probably needed.


Unless you prove me wrong, I'll probably pass.  I'm worried they'll look like cruise ships in my ears.


----------



## erockg

bladefd said:


> Anyone try the Lypertek PurePlay Z7 Triple Hybrid Driver? I would be curious how they compare to Fokus pro





xSDMx said:


> I saw one or two folks post their impressions in this thread about half a year ago. IIRC the sound quality was very good but the build quality, QC, and size/fitment is bad.


Tried then ages ago when they first came out.  They're the same shell as the Noble Falcon Pro, except the NFP is tuned better imo.  Fit is odd too, they go in deep.  Hey now.


----------



## erockg

bladefd said:


> It would be expensive to return if opened.. Says "Products that have contact with the ear, nose or throat *can only be returned for a full refund if sent back with hygiene seals unbroken and in unused condition* (you must exercise reasonable care when evaluating the product as you would in a shop)."
> 
> On top of that, there is return cost, which would be out of own pocket.
> 
> It would be a costly return for any reason.


I'm sure you're covered by Noble if they're a Noble dealer.  That said, once you have the Fokus Pro, there isn't really a reason to return them if you want one, if not the best sounding TWS out there right now.  I actually may repurchase them at this price.  I sold mine for more than these would cost me!


----------



## cresny

The Huawei free buds pro 2, with dual dynamic and planar drivers plus tuning by Devialet, are getting some universally strong acclaim. But I can't purchase them in the USA because apparently they will spy on me. So I hopped on over to Amazon UK where they happen to have a 15% coupon, and I was able to purchase them for $165 out the door shipped to US by this Friday. Who said globalism is dead?!


----------



## nekonhime

jant71 said:


> I do think they are a bit of an odd bird. Worth the $99 price of admission. Not really worth it at $300 these days with newer stuff.
> 
> Usual JVC lady with an asian accent giving power, pairing, and connected messages. Odd that there is a guy that speaks English with no accent at all will give one message saying the bluetooth is disconnected or device cannot be found. ANC/Ambient/ Voice Enhancement and any other commands do not have voice prompts.
> 
> ...


How do they compare to the noble fokus H anc, xm4, devialet, b&o eq/ex and the free byrd?


----------



## erockg

cresny said:


> The Huawei free buds pro 2, with dual dynamic and planar drivers plus tuning by Devialet, are getting some universally strong acclaim. But I can't purchase them in the USA because apparently they will spy on me. So I hopped on over to Amazon UK where they happen to have a 15% coupon, and I was able to purchase them for $165 out the door shipped to US by this Friday. Who said globalism is dead?!


I'll be eagerly awaiting your thoughts...


----------



## jant71

erockg said:


> Unless you prove me wrong, I'll probably pass.  I'm worried they'll look like cruise ships in my ears.


Maybe more like aircraft carriers...


----------



## AykDaddy (Jul 30, 2022)

TooFrank said:


> Yes - mine doesn't. After - admittedly only one test - the case lost only 1-2% in 24 hours


Same here. Left my EX untouched for 8 days after fully charging them and when I picked them up 8 days later they were at 91%.
Pretty solid actually…

Speaking of the EX: I really dig their sound and haven’t used my APP or Galaxy Buds Pro in a long while as a result. Certainly the best TWS I have heard so far (including the XM4 and MTW3). I just found their anc to be rather poor. However, after the last software update I feel the EX’s ANC improved quite significantly. Can anyone confirm this or did I just get used to them? Unfortunately their transparency mode remains poor…


----------



## subguy812

AykDaddy said:


> Same here. Left my EX untouched for 8 days after fully charging them and when I picked them up 8 days later they were at 91%.
> Pretty solid actually…
> 
> Speaking of the EX: I really dig their sound and haven’t used my APP or Galaxy Buds Pro in a long while as a result. Certainly the best TWS I have heard so far (including the XM4 and MTW3). I just found their anc to be rather poor. However, after the last software update I feel the EX’s ANC improved quite significantly. Can anyone confirm this or did I just get used to them? Unfortunately their transparency mode remains poor…


Out of curiosity, what software version are you on?


----------



## AykDaddy

subguy812 said:


> Out of curiosity, what software version are you on?


 The app states version 5.3.6


----------



## subguy812

AykDaddy said:


> The app states version 5.3.6


Me too, just wanted to make sure, I have one received one update since ownership. 

To me, the ANC is middle of the pack, you can hear it kick in after a few seconds. Transparency mode, to my ears, is it biggest weakness. Price is also a major downer to some.


----------



## subguy812

For some reason, my Pixel Buds Pro never arrived. I received a notice; Monday is the day I will receive them. I have not read much that puts them in the top-tier category, but for some reason they attracted my attention. They will share time with the EX, XM4 and Free Byrd so we will see. I do have others but not in the same class.


----------



## schmohlzumwohl

smith said:


> Heads up Guys & Girls …UK retailer Hifiheadphones are have a Camjam sale this weekend … They have the noble audio FoKus Pro going for only  £199


Noble audio has a discount as well. The FoKus pro is now available for €259.


----------



## FSTOP (Jul 30, 2022)

cresny said:


> The Huawei free buds pro 2, with dual dynamic and planar drivers plus tuning by Devialet, are getting some universally strong acclaim. But I can't purchase them in the USA because apparently they will spy on me. So I hopped on over to Amazon UK where they happen to have a 15% coupon, and I was able to purchase them for $165 out the door shipped to US by this Friday. Who said globalism is dead?!


Very interested in your impressions of SQ as well as fit!! These look like they would actually fit in my snallish ears - - so far none of the better-sounding tier of tws have fit me well, including noble fp


----------



## subguy812

FSTOP said:


> Very interested in your impressions of SQ as well as fit!! These look like they would actually fit in my snallish ears - - so far none of the better-sounding tier of tws have fit me well, including noble fp


The EX don't fit?


----------



## Darkestred

erockg said:


> That's a STEAL.  Even if you get it shipped to the states with a 5% off coupon, it's only $225.


It's a little bit cheaper than that at around $216.  I picked them up. I'm a sucker for a good tws.


----------



## scubaphish

Not that anyone asked, but recently set FoKus Pro eq back to default/flat and it sounds terrific. Either my brain or the phones burned in, but in any case, these sound awfully fantastic. All that said, really tempted by the FoKus H.


----------



## bladefd

erockg said:


> I'm sure you're covered by Noble if they're a Noble dealer.  That said, once you have the Fokus Pro, there isn't really a reason to return them if you want one, if not the best sounding TWS out there right now.  I actually may repurchase them at this price.  I sold mine for more than these would cost me!


Why did you sell?


----------



## erockg

bladefd said:


> Why did you sell?


Bought the H-ANC and the Fokus Pro weren't getting love.  Recently, returned and sold off some TWS so they're now on the way back because of this sale!  They're that great in my opinion.  Ugh.


----------



## J_3000

Few days with the EX and I will write little about them later, but I have a question. My unit defaults to ANC on everytime I place them in to the case. Also I think the call setting changes. 

Is this a known bug that everyone has?


----------



## bladefd

erockg said:


> Bought the H-ANC and the Fokus Pro weren't getting love.  Recently, returned and sold off some TWS so they're now on the way back because of this sale!  They're that great in my opinion.  Ugh.


How would you compare the fokus pro and the EX? Same universe in overall quality? Sound quality, mic quality, battery, etc


----------



## dj24

Came across this article about the Beat Fits Pro from a long term use perspective and was wondering if anyone here has tried them and if so how's the overall SQ?  Runner's thump?


----------



## Caipirina

SynaestheticA said:


> Nice review, I love the Beyer sound, makes any music sound nice, do you think they are secure enough for running + workouts?


that is a brilliant question and really depends on your ears ... I have not dared a run with them yet, but work out i did .. 
somehow, when I put them in first and my ears are bone dry, they tend to slip out, but after a while (and a bit re-adjustement) they seem to sit very securely ... but only if I really use my old earplugs technique (which includes pulling down the earlobe and then twist the buds deeper in

I am really happy with them and use them also a lot on my Mac now .. switching between mac & iphone is as easy as it is with the XM4, you bascially just grab the connection with whatever device you are on, no need to unpair./ forget anuthing first


----------



## Caipirina

dj24 said:


> Came across this article about the Beat Fits Pro from a long term use perspective and was wondering if anyone here has tried them and if so how's the overall SQ?  Runner's thump?


I use them a LOT for running actually .. I think I have grown to ignore runner's thump in general, but these thump on the lighter side .. like the APP, they are not totally wedged into your earhole. What I enjoy most is that they have consistently reliable in terms of battery / charging / staying charged ... my APP are bugging me these days with the right one keep playing music while in case and in general being empty when I want to go for a run ...


----------



## Caipirina

Very curious about this claim. They basically look like AirPods 3 (they are called the Storm 3) but with ANC? Hmmmm … tempting. Let’s see if anyone has reviewed them yet.


----------



## helmutcheese

Must be really amazing ANC to work with no real passive NC!


----------



## jant71

This is not the first to do it and of course this will probably work out just as well(or not so well).  Think Sony or BOSE ANC will struggle with no real isolation. Of course these do not have BOSE or SONY level ANC. I think we know that for sure.


----------



## Luke Skywalker

samandhi said:


> In that case, you might also look into Nuarl (a Japanese company rather than a Chinese brand). I didn't see that name in your signature. While I can't speak for any of the new models, I have the N6 Pro, and they are fantastic in an almost wired IEM way. But, keep in mind that the signature for these is not the typical TWS tuning, nor does it have any extra features. These are more reference tuned, and have physical buttons on them (same buttons on both sides).
> 
> To help you decided whether you might like the sound of these or not, I was looking for sound quality ONLY with these (which these definitely have in spades), and I wanted something reference sounding, with lots of micro-details. They do NOT have a boosted bass at all; not flat either, more neutral, jut not boosted in a Harmon curve sort of way.
> 
> Bottom line is that if you are looking for more analytical sound (with a bit of fun), these are for you. If you are looking for fun and lively tuning, these might not be your cup of tea. BTW, sound quality of the mic (I have been told) is excellent. Just no ANC or ambient mode, these are simply IEMs with a TWS connection (AptX or AAC IIRC).


Big +1 on the N6P!  They were actually my first TWS and I still wear them at the gym. I also have them paired to my Amazon fire stick that I take when i travel. I have my HiBy LDAC buds paired to my Nvidia shield at home for watching movies


----------



## chinmie

Caipirina said:


> Very curious about this claim. They basically look like AirPods 3 (they are called the Storm 3) but with ANC? Hmmmm … tempting. Let’s see if anyone has reviewed them yet.





helmutcheese said:


> Must be really amazing ANC to work with no real passive NC!



the last time i tried this type of open back ANC was my friend's Huawei Freebuds 4, and i got to say it has impressive ANC for open back, and also has a nice sound signature. the only minus for me is the short battery life. 

compared to the Samsung buds live which has a nice battery life, it has a good ANC, but i can only get it to work if i push it slightly with my fingers and hold it in place... the second i took my fingers off the ANC would be useless. 

I'm curious about the baseus, but i never heard any of their previous products before


----------



## AykDaddy

J_3000 said:


> Few days with the EX and I will write little about them later, but I have a question. My unit defaults to ANC on everytime I place them in to the case. Also I think the call setting changes.
> 
> Is this a known bug that everyone has?


It’s not a bug, it’s a feature  
The ex default in anc mode, yes. Unfortunately you can’t change that in the app settings (yet)


----------



## J_3000

AykDaddy said:


> It’s not a bug, it’s a feature
> The ex default in anc mode, yes. Unfortunately you can’t change that in the app settings (yet)


🤯 Nice feature 😬 Forcing you to use ANC thats almost nonexistent and making your battery drain 25% faster for it.

Sounds like a smart feature. Has B&O commented on this?

I think on a product of this price level, the tolerance for some weird/buggy behaviour is super low. Especially on a simple thing like this.


----------



## james444

Caipirina said:


> Very curious about this claim. They basically look like AirPods 3 (they are called the Storm 3) but with ANC? Hmmmm … tempting. Let’s see if anyone has reviewed them yet.





chinmie said:


> the last time i tried this type of open back ANC was my friend's Huawei Freebuds 4, and i got to say it has impressive ANC for open back, and also has a nice sound signature. the only minus for me is the short battery life.
> 
> compared to the Samsung buds live which has a nice battery life, it has a good ANC, but i can only get it to work if i push it slightly with my fingers and hold it in place... the second i took my fingers off the ANC would be useless.
> 
> I'm curious about the baseus, but i never heard any of their previous products before



I for my part am curious about the new JBL Tune Flex, which offer different tips for open and closed usage plus 6 levels of ANC to fit different usage scenarios:





https://www.hifi.blog/jbl-tune-flex-with-new-jbl-sound-fit-technology/


----------



## Caipirina

james444 said:


> I for my part am curious about the new JBL Tune Flex, which offer different tips for open and closed usage plus 6 levels of ANC to fit different usage scenarios:
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.hifi.blog/jbl-tune-flex-with-new-jbl-sound-fit-technology/


Oooohhhh shiny!


----------



## Caipirina

chinmie said:


> the last time i tried this type of open back ANC was my friend's Huawei Freebuds 4, and i got to say it has impressive ANC for open back, and also has a nice sound signature. the only minus for me is the short battery life.
> 
> compared to the Samsung buds live which has a nice battery life, it has a good ANC, but i can only get it to work if i push it slightly with my fingers and hold it in place... the second i took my fingers off the ANC would be useless.
> 
> I'm curious about the baseus, but i never heard any of their previous products before


Totally forgot about the buds live beans. Yep, semi in ear and I like their anc. Or anr  fir me it works well.


----------



## Caipirina

helmutcheese said:


> Must be really amazing ANC to work with no real passive NC!


Reminds me of the doubts I had with the Bose QC 20? The simple wired ones (not neck band), they are semi in ear and have impressive anc


----------



## Caipirina

Caipirina said:


> Very curious about this claim. They basically look like AirPods 3 (they are called the Storm 3) but with ANC? Hmmmm … tempting. Let’s see if anyone has reviewed them yet.


Found this very fresh review from totally unknown source. It is a bit too detailed, on point, to be bot written (my initial thought) they seem to have some insight how Baseus pulls off the ANC without PNC … 
https://inf.news/ne/digital/71947ba4185951bf437cab3cbc68628c.html


----------



## Luke Skywalker

FullCircle said:


> "Mom & Pop shop?!"
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I haven’t tried the ANCs but I did get the FoKus Pro. The sound is absolutely astonishing with Acoustune tips. Blows away my B&O Eq and Devialet Geminis and sounds damned near as good as my JH Lola’s


----------



## Darkestred

Luke Skywalker said:


> I haven’t tried the ANCs but I did get the FoKus Pro. The sound is absolutely astonishing with Acoustune tips. Blows away my B&O Eq and Devialet Geminis and sounds damned near as good as my JH Lola’s


I'm excited about these. Mine arrive Wednesday. When I listened to the sultan and then these at canjam, if I wasn't paying attention I could barely tell a difference. Which in my opinion is nice to have especially in a tws.


----------



## FullCircle

Luke Skywalker said:


> I haven’t tried the ANCs but I did get the FoKus Pro. The sound is absolutely astonishing with Acoustune tips. Blows away my B&O Eq and Devialet Geminis and sounds damned near as good as my JH Lola’s



Quality parts + dsp = surprisingly good sound without a cable


----------



## Luke Skywalker

erockg said:


> Really surprised.  Are you still using them with the TW2 or is the FiiO a better fit?  Might snag the UTWS5 again for my arsenal.


Hey @erockg!  Thanks so much for recommending the UTSW5 + Monarch Mk2 combo. The sound is just as amazing as you said it would be. 

I’m surprised you got rid of your -5s. I have my UTWS3 collecting dust in a drawer at the moment because I have no IEMs other than JH Lola and those don’t fit in that case.  

P.s. I’m listening to a DSD128 Queen album from iPhone -> iFi xDSD -> JH Lola (balanced cable) right now and it sounds pretty amazing


----------



## Luke Skywalker

Darkestred said:


> I'm excited about these. Mine arrive Wednesday. When I listened to the sultan and then these at canjam, if I wasn't paying attention I could barely tell a difference. Which in my opinion is nice to have especially in a tws.


I hope you love them as much as I do. I’m a novice and I just stuck them in my ears and played Tidal music from my iPhone. AAC of course. I’m a little OCD so EQ’ing drives me crazy.


----------



## Luke Skywalker

Bhelpoori said:


> You don’t need Wifi bandwidth to for lossless:  it takes too much power, is too expensive and doesn’t have the audio framework of LE Audio . Bluetooth LE is quite sufficient.
> 
> Also there is widespread confusion about LC3 and the plus version. For Bluetooth they are the same: standard LC3 is capable of 96/24. LC3Plus is aimed at other non Bluetooth markets.
> 
> ...


That’s really interesting. I was wondering just today why Apple didn’t make the headphones use lossless Wifi Airplay or something like that


----------



## subguy812

Well all of the players are finally here. Time to listen.


----------



## Luke Skywalker (Aug 1, 2022)

erockg said:


> I swapped out my MK2s and have been using the Sennheiser IE600 and the Moondrop S8 on the Fiio UTWS3 and Shure TW2 Gen 2.  Honestly, I'm enjoying them much more!


Nice! So I’m going to buy one of those two IEMs

I’m leaning toward the Moondrop because I’ve heard great things about their IEMs and I’m not into heavy bass. Female Vocals, jazz, classical, guitar are much more thing. What do you think?

I don’t have the Shure TW2. Do you think the S8 would sound good with the Fiio UTWS3?

A bonus would be I could use the Monarch’s with that magnificent cable they came with.  I’d have paid a few hundred $ just for that cable!

Do you use a dongle or any kind of DAC AMP?


----------



## erockg

bladefd said:


> How would you compare the fokus pro and the EX? Same universe in overall quality? Sound quality, mic quality, battery, etc


As an every day unit, I'd say the EX is better, but the Fokus does have the edge in sound quality for sure, but not leaps and bounds imo.  But does.  Better separation and power in Fokus.  But if you need a great mic setup and the bells and whistles the EX offers, I'd go EX.  I've had/have them both.


----------



## erockg

Luke Skywalker said:


> Nice! So I’m going to buy one of those two IEMs
> 
> I’m leaning toward the Moondrop because I’ve heard great things about their IEMs and I’m not into heavy bass. Female Vocals, jazz, classical, guitar are much more thing. What do you think?
> 
> ...


I'm using the S8 on the UTWS3.  Sounds really great to me.  Sadly, I never use anything but my iPhone and adapters.  I move around too much while WFH, so it's easier for me.  The only negative is that WFH has enabled me to buy way too many TWS and IEM sets.


----------



## scubaphish

erockg said:


> As an every day unit, I'd say the EX is better, but the Fokus does have the edge in sound quality for sure, but not leaps and bounds imo.  But does.  Better separation and power in Fokus.  But if you need a great mic setup and the bells and whistles the EX offers, I'd go EX.  I've had/have them both.


I’d say the mic is the Achilles heel of the Fokus Pro…I can live without ANC since passive isolation is amazing and; and although I miss hear through mode, it’s not an much a blemish on the TWS as the muffled mic


----------



## erockg

scubaphish said:


> I’d say the mic is the Achilles heel of the Fokus Pro…I can live without ANC since passive isolation is amazing and; and although I miss hear through mode, it’s not an much a blemish on the TWS as the muffled mic


Definitely agree with you.  Every now and then a bt hiccup too.  At least for me.


----------



## Luke Skywalker

erockg said:


> I'm using the S8 on the UTWS3.  Sounds really great to me.  Sadly, I never use anything but my iPhone and adapters.  I move around too much while WFH, so it's easier for me.  The only negative is that WFH has enabled me to buy way too many TWS and IEM sets.


Nice I’ll get the S8 then. I only use my iPhone, too.  

When I want to go wired, I mostly use my HiBy FC5 with earphones but it doesn’t enough power for my Audeze a LCD-2 cans. 

I have an iFi xDSD for that but it’s clunky.  

I’m looking at the iFi gobar or maybe the Questyle M15.


----------



## LostOnEarth

subguy812 said:


> Well all of the players are finally here. Time to listen.


Did you have any issues with the B&O EX? 
Specifically on the left earbud not "starting"/"connecting" once you remove it from the box?


----------



## subguy812

LostOnEarth said:


> Did you have any issues with the B&O EX?
> Specifically on the left earbud not "starting"/"connecting" once you remove it from the box?


I have only had that happen a couple of times, didn't notice if it was L or R. All I did was return it to the case and remove it again and all was good.


----------



## LostOnEarth

subguy812 said:


> I have only had that happen a couple of times, didn't notice if it was L or R. All I did was return it to the case and remove it again and all was good.


Thank you - I'm getting it more often than not; about every other try.


----------



## LostOnEarth

LostOnEarth said:


> Thank you - I'm getting it more often than not; about every other try.


(And forgot to say - I'm on the latest firmware)


----------



## james444

james444 said:


> I had the Oppo Enco X2 from Amazon and they're going back to where they came from. Had high hopes after an all-around positive experience with the Enco Air 2, but contrary to the latter, the X2 seem like a somewhat half baked product to me. Encountered multiple issues, even the largest tips being too small for large ears, proprietary tip mount, lack of space in the charging case for third party tips,  BT-connection reverting from LDAC to AAC (despite the fact  that my phone supports the former), about 10dB drop in bass when going from ANC mode to no ANC, you name it. Must confess I Lost patience after two hours of largely frustrating testing, even though the hybrid DD/planar driver seems very capable and sound quality would be stellar, if the rest of the package were up to snuff.



After a rather underwhelming experience with the Oppo Enco X2 (see quote above), I decided to try another DD/planar hybrid driver TWS, the Huawei FreeBuds Pro 2. The latter look extremely similar to the Oppos, but they're actually better suited for large ears and I was able to get a reliable seal with L-sized tips. However, the sound quality is not quite at eye level with the Oppos imo and frankly speaking, the default Devialet EQ preset is a warm bassy mess. I'm able to achieve more decent and neutral sound via the 10-band user EQ provided by the app, but the result still doesn't sound convincing enough to make me hold on to them. 

So, back they'll go, just like the Oppos. And I'm holding on to my trusty JVC HA-FW1000T, which admittedly need rigorous EQ to sound good, but once properly equalized, beat the Huaweis in terms of SQ in my humble opinion.


----------



## cresny

james444 said:


> After a rather underwhelming experience with the Oppo Enco X2 (see quote above), I decided to try another DD/planar hybrid driver TWS, the Huawei FreeBuds Pro 2. The latter look extremely similar to the Oppos, but they're actually better suited for large ears and I was able to get a reliable seal with L-sized tips. However, the sound quality is not quite at eye level with the Oppos imo and frankly speaking, the default Devialet EQ preset is a warm bassy mess. I'm able to achieve more decent and neutral sound via the 10-band user EQ provided by the app, but the result still doesn't sound convincing enough to make me hold on to them.
> 
> So, back they'll go, just like the Oppos. And I'm holding on to my trusty JVC HA-FW1000T, which admittedly need rigorous EQ to sound good, but once properly equalized, beat the Huaweis in terms of SQ in my humble opinion.


The Oppos look like hardware clones of the Hauweis so I guess these are the new Shenzhen standard AirPod pro challenge, which we can expect to see plenty more clones of, and firmware makes any difference, and the Devialet embossing on the Huawei case just represents an expensive EQ preset. 

I'll be getting mine later this week so I'll see how they compare with your findings. Hopefully these will be fun for a while but I expect Apple will blow everyone out of the water again later this year.


----------



## subguy812

Regarding the new Pixel Buds Pro. I spent some time last night. They are extremely comfortable, I am going to have to tip roll, because short nozzles always give some issue, my ear hole opening is large. I could use one size larger than L.

I have watched a couple of reviews. It is almost as if the reviewers are all reviewing a different product. Part of this could be, Google bias and folks don't have high expectations. The other part is most of the reviewers are the new breed of pandemic reviewers, make your own decision about confidence level of their reviews.

My experience was really above average last night. I think once the additional features, such as EQ, are added to the experience, Google could have a hit on their hands. More to come...


----------



## cresny

subguy812 said:


> Regarding the new Pixel Buds Pro. I spent some time last night. They are extremely comfortable, I am going to have to tip roll, because short nozzles always give some issue, my ear hole opening is large. I could use one size larger than L.
> 
> I have watched a couple of reviews. It is almost as if the reviewers are all reviewing a different product. Part of this could be, Google bias and folks don't have high expectations. The other part is most of the reviewers are the new breed of pandemic reviewers, make your own decision about confidence level of their reviews.
> 
> My experience was really above average last night. I think once the additional features, such as EQ, are added to the experience, Google could have a hit on their hands. More to come...


Nice to hear because, yeah, reviews have been weirdly mixed. Mine remain unopened for now!


----------



## Fleeple

subguy812 said:


> Regarding the new Pixel Buds Pro. I spent some time last night. They are extremely comfortable, I am going to have to tip roll, because short nozzles always give some issue, my ear hole opening is large. I could use one size larger than L.
> 
> I have watched a couple of reviews. It is almost as if the reviewers are all reviewing a different product. Part of this could be, Google bias and folks don't have high expectations. The other part is most of the reviewers are the new breed of pandemic reviewers, make your own decision about confidence level of their reviews.
> 
> My experience was really above average last night. I think once the additional features, such as EQ, are added to the experience, Google could have a hit on their hands. More to come...


I would agree; they sound great, feel great, and I love the swipe functionality for volume. My only gripes thus far are they still wiggle out of my ears over time (will try more tips), and they ruin some calls horribly for some reason.


----------



## tonyfiore75

LostOnEarth said:


> Thank you - I'm getting it more often than not; about every other try.


I get this with my B&O EX almost every time I put them in. If they didn't sound so good it would really bother me. But I do what was mentioned earlier - I put the one that didn't connect back in the case for a few seconds, take it back out, pop it in my ear and then hear the beep that it connected. I don't know what the story is. Obviously if they're charging then it isn't a physical connection issue. I have no idea what causes it but for buds so expensive, this should REALLY not be happening to so many of us.


----------



## LostOnEarth

tonyfiore75 said:


> I get this with my B&O EX almost every time I put them in. If they didn't sound so good it would really bother me. But I do what was mentioned earlier - I put the one that didn't connect back in the case for a few seconds, take it back out, pop it in my ear and then hear the beep that it connected. I don't know what the story is. Obviously if they're charging then it isn't a physical connection issue. I have no idea what causes it but for buds so expensive, this should REALLY not be happening to so many of us.


Hoping a firmware update fixes it...


----------



## tonyfiore75

LostOnEarth said:


> Hoping a firmware update fixes it...


I hope so too but I feel like they've already had a few chances to fix it with the firmware updates already. You'd think something like that would be tops on their list. That and the power drain people were reporting.


----------



## natalieann

LostOnEarth said:


> Thank you - I'm getting it more often than not; about every other try.


I LOVE the EX but I had to give up on them, because their quality control and cases are horrible. Who makes a case where, when using the supplied comply tips, doesn't fit in the case. Also, mine just randomly turn on in the case as well. I never thought I would go to Sony, but I did and they are 1000X better in every aspect, except slightly less amazing in sound quality. Get it together Bang and Olufsen


----------



## scubaphish

tonyfiore75 said:


> I get this with my B&O EX almost every time I put them in. If they didn't sound so good it would really bother me. But I do what was mentioned earlier - I put the one that didn't connect back in the case for a few seconds, take it back out, pop it in my ear and then hear the beep that it connected. I don't know what the story is. Obviously if they're charging then it isn't a physical connection issue. I have no idea what causes it but for buds so expensive, this should REALLY not be happening to so many of us.


I’ve had that happen with my Fokus more than once. I’ve taken to waiting a few seconds after opening the case before taking the buds out. Usually let the blue lights come on first; once powered on I take them out and I haven’t had connection issue since. Just a thought.


----------



## tonyfiore75

scubaphish said:


> I’ve had that happen with my Fokus more than once. I’ve taken to waiting a few seconds after opening the case before taking the buds out. Usually let the blue lights come on first; once powered on I take them out and I haven’t had connection issue since. Just a thought.


Oh that's interesting. Thank you for sharing that. I don't think I've ever delayed removing them from the case after opening the lid. I'll definitely try that in the next few days!


----------



## LostOnEarth

scubaphish said:


> I’ve had that happen with my Fokus more than once. I’ve taken to waiting a few seconds after opening the case before taking the buds out. Usually let the blue lights come on first; once powered on I take them out and I haven’t had connection issue since. Just a thought.


Interesting - will also try this. 
Thanks for posting.


----------



## TooFrank

J_3000 said:


> Few days with the EX and I will write little about them later, but I have a question. My unit defaults to ANC on everytime I place them in to the case. Also I think the call setting changes.
> 
> Is this a known bug that everyone has?


They always start with ANC when you take them out of the case. Annoying in the beginning, but I got quickly used to it....


----------



## xSDMx (Aug 2, 2022)

YMMV on the Pixel Buds Pro. Totally uncomfortable for me with terrible fitment. Similar issues I had with the Grell Audio TWS. Stem is too short and housing body too large/bulbous and I can't comfortably get a seal. The Buds 2/A fit perfectly for me and looking at them side-by-side you can clearly see the differences in stem length and housing shape.


----------



## tonyfiore75

scubaphish said:


> I’ve had that happen with my Fokus more than once. I’ve taken to waiting a few seconds after opening the case before taking the buds out. Usually let the blue lights come on first; once powered on I take them out and I haven’t had connection issue since. Just a thought.


So far, so good with this method! On the way home tonight as I was waiting for my train to depart, I took my B&O EX out of my bag, opened the case and let it sit there for roughly 5 seconds, then popped the buds in my ears. They both connected immediately. I'll try again in the morning but this might be the answer. Thank you so much for the suggestion!


----------



## msooffutt

scubaphish said:


> I’ve had that happen with my Fokus more than once. I’ve taken to waiting a few seconds after opening the case before taking the buds out. Usually let the blue lights come on first; once powered on I take them out and I haven’t had connection issue since. Just a thought.


I do something similar with mine except I open the case and then nudge both earphones and let the magnets pull them back down, and then the lights light up and I then pull them out.  They connect every time after that.  It was the only thing that bugged me about them, but this works every time.


----------



## Blueshound24 (Aug 2, 2022)

Blueshound24 said:


> I found a deal on some Ebay refurbished Linkbuds in case anyone is interested. At this price I'm going to give them a whirl, and they have free returns if they don't suit me.
> 
> I agree with your description of the Galaxy Buds Live of them being too bass heavy and lacking details.
> 
> ...




These are now going for $69.99.
I'm happy with mine that I received from secondipity on ebay.


----------



## DigDub

Impressions later.


----------



## DigDub (Aug 3, 2022)

DigDub said:


> Impressions later.


Ok so I've charged them up (they came empty) and is able to give some initial impressions now. With the default tips, I find the sound on the default EQ to be too warm and a tad muddled. Changing to a wider bore tip (I used the tips from beats studio buds) and the sound opened up beautifully. Mids becomes crystal clear and picks up a lot of details without sounding artificial or grainy. Highs sound crisp and do not dominate and doesn't sound sibilant. The mid bass is probably a tad too much which makes the sound a tad muddy, I turned down the mid bass using the EQ in the app.

Haven't had a chance to use the mic yet. Pass through sound pretty audible and quite natural. Haven't had a chance to try the ANC yet, passive isolation is pretty good. Haven't had chance to try the wind noise reduction either.

Controls for double tap and triple tap can be customised for both the left and right earbuds in the app, which includes track fwd/back and volume control. Play/pause (single tap on either buds) and hold (left to cycle through the ANC passthrough modes, right to activate voice assistant) cannot be changed. Tapping doesn't produce beeps, so it might be hard to tell how many taps I made.

The buds themselves are on the large size. I find them to be comfortable in my ears. They do protrude, so probably not very good for side sleepers. The case I would say is about medium size, not the smallest, but it's longish, so it's easy to slip in and out of pockets.

It supports AAC and SBC codecs, no aptx or any fancy hi-res codecs. But the sound quality easily beats TWS buds which plaster superior codecs and hi-res logos on their boxes. The Noble H-ANC shows why excellent tuning is way more important than just codecs.


----------



## Caipirina

First time I saw that Bluetooth option on a plane’s entertainment system! No lag! 


Finally get to test the Free Byrds in the sky! Comparing with the ‘big ones’ … and they hold up remarkably well!!! Once I achieve proper fit, the ANC against engine noise is on the same level as XM4, Bose. They might not do as well with some of the higher frequencies (surprisingly no screaming babies on this flight)  … but overall a joy to have and 8h battery life with ANC is fantastic. I had them on like 4h of a 6h flight. Now during transit I put them back in the case for 30 minutes… and they are quickly back at 95%


----------



## erockg (Aug 3, 2022)

Picked up the Harman Kardon Fly TWS.  $37.95 off Woot!  new-harman-kardon-fly-true-wireless-earbuds

We shall see.  They look nice.  Pretty leather accents.  No ANC or wireless charging.  They do have auto pause, transparency mode and EQ within the app like the AKG N400.  I'll test them out later today.  Figured for the price, a wild hair was satisfied for a day or so


----------



## Bobbetybob

Finally got a pair of Lypertek Tevi/Pureplay Z3 1.0's, bit of a bargain at £18. They sound really nice even though they're a few years old now, I wish they were a slightly more comfortable but at least the slightly deeper fit means you're guaranteed a good seal. I think they've been updated already so I set the EQ in the app to "neutral" which sounds pretty nice to me, tones the bass down slightly and give the mids a bit of a bump which is probably just correcting what the original update did. 

As a side not on the EQ, it's one of the weirdest I've seen because if you turn up the 80hz (on my pair at least) you can make the drivers go properly crunchy, the bass boost setting actually completely ruins your music, impressive!


----------



## darveniza

Received my Pixel Buds Pro today and after playing for a while:

a) Setting up on my Samsung was not seamless, had to access the Pixel Buds app manually as to force the additional settings, walk through show up
b) Played around with tips but found the ear fit test pretty accurate
c) Sound and ANC are good and imrpovement from the Buds and Buds A
d) The controls from the Buds are ideal for me , so I kinda bias as I prefer this set up than other ones used by other vendors
e) Fit is weird but once you figure out the twist it works out well
f) One thing I apreciated is the small cylinder holding the tips , this is a better approach than what is used by other companies
g) Multi point works great

I think Google has improved  lot from the previous versions


----------



## cresny

Got the Huawei Freebuds Pro 2. Listening for about two hours now, I think they're great, especially at the price. The sound is slightly warm but not recessed, full, with very good soundstage and imaging. These are definitely a dynamic sound, not clinical, but they really do nail the dynamics on some complex stuff that sounded flat on other buds. They really deliver for me on textured mid-bass and sub-bass; if you like cellos and bass clarinets then you gotta try these. Drums too, tasty riffs, heavy kicks and cymbals. I've been listening to all kinds of stuff, older style mixing and modern and they do both well. I haven't A/B'd anything but before I'd been listening to the Technics az60s, Devialet Gemini, AKG n400s and Letshouer s12 planars/UTWS5. Those are all going to stay in the drawer for a while, except for the Gemini which are NIB warranty replacements that I will probably sell.


----------



## xSDMx

cresny said:


> Got the Huawei Freebuds Pro 2. Listening for about two hours now, I think they're great, especially at the price. The sound is slightly warm but not recessed, full, with very good soundstage and imaging. These are definitely a dynamic sound, not clinical, but they really do nail the dynamics on some complex stuff that sounded flat on other buds. They really deliver for me on textured mid-bass and sub-bass; if you like cellos and bass clarinets then you gotta try these. Drums too, tasty riffs, heavy kicks and cymbals. I've been listening to all kinds of stuff, older style mixing and modern and they do both well. I haven't A/B'd anything but before I'd been listening to the Technics az60s, Devialet Gemini, AKG n400s and Letshouer s12 planars/UTWS5. Those are all going to stay in the drawer for a while, except for the Gemini which are NIB warranty replacements that I will probably sell.



Are they mostly useable without the Huawei app?


----------



## cresny

xSDMx said:


> Are they mostly useable without the Huawei app?


Funny you mention it. The app is a pain because you have to sideload it in the US. I did this and found I had no sound effects or advanced features, even with the latest version. Anyway, I guess the answer to question is yes, with "mostly". You won't be able to change strength of ANC, and you on't be able to go neutral, no ANC/Ambient  but I doubt that matters much. Since my app is missing most all features, that's pretty much where I'm at and I'm fine with that.


----------



## Canabuc

Well so far not seeing any reason to switch from my Az60.
Just used them on holiday and plane and fan noise were well cancelled. Sound is great and love the full controls.

Think I will wait until LC3 and all the next gen come out that can take advantage.


----------



## March78 (Aug 4, 2022)

Been testing the Free Byrds now for a few days and so far pretty happy.
Soundwise I think the EX are still a tiny bit better (though Free Byrds are very good) especially on vocals (more clear/forward on EX). The Free Byrds can be a little bit bass heavy for my taste sometimes, EX are better balanced. Have to say the Free Byrds have a bigger soundstage though which is nice and they are overall a very pleasurable listen.
To me they definitely sound better than both MTW3 and AZ60 which I am both selling now and am keeping the EX and the Free Byrds.
Ofcourse this is all a matter of taste.

Sound personalisation on the Free Byrds works very well and gives a noticeable improvement in my situation.

At first it was very hard to get a good fit with these, but once I realized I needed the XL tips (all other buds I owned/tried need smaller tips for me) they now seal very well and are pretty comfortable.

I was surprised by the ANC performance, was expecting (crappy) EX level of performance here, but they are actually not bad. Definitely not top-tier ANC but actually usefull contrary to the EX's ANC, and good enough for me in combination with music playing.

The combination of ok ANC and close to EX sound quality make these my daily buds for now. I'm happy to ride the train with them, ANC in combination with music drowns out most noise, where as with the EX I could still hear everything around me going on. Transparency is also much better on the Free Byrds than on EX.

Bluetooth connection on the Free Byrds is very strong, not a single drop so far and longer range through walls etc than EX, MTW3 and AZ60.

Conclusion, the Free Byrds are keepers


----------



## james444

New LG DT90Q and DT60Q are up on the German website (Google translation):

DT90Q: https://www-lg-com.translate.goog/d...l=auto&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en&_x_tr_pto=wapp

DT60Q: https://www-lg-com.translate.goog/d...l=auto&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en&_x_tr_pto=wapp


----------



## subguy812

james444 said:


> New LG DT90Q and DT60Q are up on the German website (Google translation):
> 
> DT90Q: https://www-lg-com.translate.goog/d...l=auto&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en&_x_tr_pto=wapp
> 
> DT60Q: https://www-lg-com.translate.goog/d...l=auto&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en&_x_tr_pto=wapp


Excellent another month and a half. Looks interesting though.


----------



## helmutcheese

^^ They claim 24/96 Snapdragon Sound but list Codecs as SBC/AAC so would need to conform this.


----------



## cresny

xSDMx said:


> Are they mostly useable without the Huawei app?


Some Freebuds pro 2 of updates/corrections. 
1. Turns out that the earbud ANC control is ANC -> Ambient -> Off, so I misstated that.
2. They sound good with ANC off, not thin like the Gemini.
3. Multipoint is well implemented, can smoothly use phone simultaneously with laptop, media pauses when switching. Just 2 devices though.


----------



## james444

helmutcheese said:


> ^^ They claim 24/96 Snapdragon Sound but list Codecs as SBC/AAC so would need to conform this.



Now up on the US site too. List of codecs in the specs is SBC, AAC and apt-X Adaptive(Snapdragon):

https://www.lg.com/us/headphones/lg-tone-t90q-white


----------



## C_Lindbergh

Insane specs on those new LGs, will have to check them out! I have no experience with any LG tws tho, hopefully I the ANC/SQ/Ambient/App will impress me!


----------



## cresny

xSDMx said:


> Are they mostly useable without the Huawei app?





cresny said:


> Some Freebuds pro 2 of updates/corrections.
> 1. Turns out that the earbud ANC control is ANC -> Ambient -> Off, so I misstated that.
> 2. They sound good with ANC off, not thin like the Gemini.
> 3. Multipoint is well implemented, can smoothly use phone simultaneously with laptop, media pauses when switching. Just 2 devices though.


Sorry, one last update. It turns out you need the App to turn on LDAC decoding. I got mine working and it's noticeably better, at 96hz 32bit, was on AAC before. Of course, if you have an iPhone this won't matter. Otherwise, if you are in USA scan the barcode when VPN'd to anywhere else.


----------



## helmutcheese

james444 said:


> Now up on the US site too. List of codecs in the specs is SBC, AAC and apt-X Adaptive(Snapdragon):
> 
> https://www.lg.com/us/headphones/lg-tone-t90q-white


Cool looking now but they list them as BT 5.2 in the main specs then in battery specs list as BT 5.3, I wonder what chipset it uses as it has to be QUALCOMM for Snapdragon cert AFAIK.


----------



## FSTOP

cresny said:


> Sorry, one last update. It turns out you need the App to turn on LDAC decoding. I got mine working and it's noticeably better, at 96hz 32bit, was on AAC before. Of course, if you have an iPhone this won't matter. Otherwise, if you are in USA scan the barcode when VPN'd to anywhere else.


Cresny, 
I got my FreeBuds Pro2 as well (from Amz UK), sound and fit pretty good. Downloaded/installed latest apk for app from Huawei. Connected immediately, paired, started playing. But when i hit the Tab for the FBp2 it does nothing, cant open settings at all, so cant control ANYTHING. Any suggestions? Tried rebooting phone, app, etc with no success. Bluetooth connects immediately with buds, works fine but no control whatsoever in app. 😔


----------



## cresny (Aug 4, 2022)

FSTOP said:


> Cresny,
> I got my FreeBuds Pro2 as well (from Amz UK), sound and fit pretty good. Downloaded/installed latest apk for app from Huawei. Connected immediately, paired, started playing. But when i hit the Tab for the FBp2 it does nothing, cant open settings at all, so cant control ANYTHING. Any suggestions? Tried rebooting phone, app, etc with no success. Bluetooth connects immediately with buds, works fine but no control whatsoever in app. 😔


If you're iPhone I don't think I can help, buton Android, there are different ways of installing. You can download their app store and install it or you can VPN to England or wherever and simply download the APK by scanning the QR code on the box. In any case, I would at least try deleting and reinstalling.
Nvm, I see that you're Android. One of those methods should get you going. Also it's worth noting that when you install the AI Life app, the headphone tab shows up first, then it downloads the config. Maybe you got stuck there.


----------



## FSTOP

cresny said:


> If you're iPhone I don't think I can help, buton Android, there are different ways of installing. You can download their app store and install it or you can VPN to England or wherever and simply download the APK by scanning the QR code on the box. In any case, I would at least try deleting and reinstalling.
> Nvm, I see that you're Android. One of those methods should get you going. Also it's worth noting that when you install the AI Life app, the headphone tab shows up first, then it downloads the config. Maybe you got stuck there.


Thanks! Deleted&reinstalled, finally got it to work. 
How did you change the codec to LDAC?


----------



## cresny

FSTOP said:


> Thanks! Deleted&reinstalled, finally got it to work.
> How did you change the codec to LDAC?


Toggle high res decoding. It's hidden in sound effects


----------



## FSTOP

cresny said:


> Toggle high res decoding. It's hidden in sound effects


Guess im still not getting all of the app settings, dont even see a sound effects tab (no eq, presets, etc).


----------



## Juturna

Can somebody explain to me a bit how the codecs work in regards to one thing? So, I mainly use my Android phone for music listening, and I've heard people say that AAC isn't that good/reliable on Android in comparison to iOS devices. 

But I mostly use Apple Music when I stream music, and from what I understand, it outputs the music in AAC format. Am I losing more on using SBC over AAC when the app itself outputs files in AAC format? Also kinda confused how AAC is both a file format and a codec? So in the end it might not matter that the track is AAC because it's not the codec itself.


----------



## Caipirina

This looks interesting . but I have no clue about Final, nor whatever this limited edition is based on ... since there is no ANC, I am not super interested (other than the looks)


----------



## Juturna

I need to do a more in-depth review of the *Soundcore Liberty 3 Pro* now when I've had it for awhile. 

The L3P is honestly my favorite TWS that I've used so far, honestly both overall and sound quality-wise specifically. 
Listening to them on LDAC is just an excellent experience, because the sound stage is honestly pretty fantastic for a TWS in comparison to the many other buds that I've tried before, it really has excellent depth and width to it, better than anything I've heard before in TWS's. 
It's the first time with TWS's where I was listening to a track that has a guitar line that pans around your head, and it's the first time I feel like I can hear sounds coming straight from, not only in front of my eyes, but at a distance quite a bit in front of me. I feel like I'm listening to over-ear headphones (but obviously not open-backs because that's unrealistic to expect tbh) at times. 

They also respond so well to EQ, they do sound a bit doo-doo just out of the box, but using Wavelet it really turns into something else. I thought they were extremely hyped up by some of the reviewers who put them at the top of the mainstream earbuds, but I honestly understand it now. The mids are beautiful and so clear where vocals just sound so damn good, and it doesn't sound "metallic" to my ears like some people have stated, but possibly it lacks a liiiittle bit in organic warmth around that section, but it's not something I think about much. 
The highs are also really nice and detailed, and I feel like I've been able to reign in the peaky areas that originally had plenty of sibilance. I'm very treble/sibilance sensitive and I have basically no issues with it now. 
I've gone back to my Galaxy Buds Pros and now they sound muddy and lacking clarity after me singing their praises just a few weeks/months back on here. 
I've dialed back the bass quite a bit, and despite being able to bring some serious oomph, it's possibly the part of the earbuds that I find the weakest, because I would want the bass to be just a tad bit faster and more... tactile, is that the right word? I miss some definition in real bass guitars where you really hear the character of the bass notes, in other words it's kinda bloated... but I hate using that word hear because it's not that the bass bleeds too much into the mids or anything, it's still a warm, round bass. It's just slightly too warm for my taste when I'm listening to more instrument-based music. For electronic music the bass is pretty much perfect though. 
I think I could possibly EQ some more and get more of that though, but I'm so happy right now that I don't want to mess with the sound any more. 

I honestly think they could sound good for pretty much any genre of music, but they definitely shine more on modern music in comparison to old jazz and blues records. Listening to "Kind Of Blue" by Miles Davis right now and it sounds VERY good, but I could see something like the B&O EX POSSIBLY making that type of music shine even more but I still feel like it would maybe be 5-10% better, not more than that. But otherwise it's really great for electronic music like Drum & Bass, Garage, EDM, Pop, R&B, Hip-Hop, Death Metal, Hardcore, Post-Rock, Indie Rock, Folk, and yeah that's just a small assortment of genres that it definitely does sound great with. 

Other good things: 


*Phone calls* seem very stable and nobody seems to have issues hearing me, which has been an issue with Galaxy Buds Pros that also seems to get worse with time. Not sure if it's skin and ear wax blocking the mics but I've looked at them and tried to use a light little brush to clean all the mics and that seems to not have helped.
*The App* is really good and I like how many things you could change in it, they really tried to make it as decent as possible so you could change the sound to your liking (well, I still found it lacking compared to Wavelet but that's a different story), but I would argue that there are almost too many options that you can play around with. 
*Comfort is really good* to me, I still use the included L eartips that came in the packaging and they feel and sound great.
*The case* has wireless charging which I haven't used to be fair, and is fairly lightweight and fits easily in a pocket, I would've liked for it to be smaller but it's not a big issue.
*ANC *is pretty good for the most part, it seems a bit inconsistent in how well it works though and sometimes decreases sounds that I wouldn't expect it to by a lot, and sometimes lets through sounds that I would expect it to cancel way better. 
The things I don't love: 

*Battery life* *on LDAC* - I think it's a crying shame that it's really this low. Because to my ears LDAC is a CLEAR and obvious upgrade on SBC or AAC. LDAC makes the sound go from a 7/10 to a 9/10 pretty much to my ears. To my ears it expands the soundstage and overall ups the resolution and clarity especially in the mids and treble, so I would never go down to SBC unless I REALLY REALLY have to conserve the battery life when I'm out and about basically, but even then I tend to stick with LDAC. 
I think battery life is ALMOST a deal breaker and I wish they would've included AptX (Adaptive? Not sure which one is the best if you exclude all the newest AptX Lossless talk) just as a middle ground. I would want 8 hours of battery life at least, but I could deal with 5-6 hours. But on LDAC I get 3 hours-ish which means that I almost always run out of battery before I put the earbuds down of my own volition. 
*ANC* -  It's decent, somewhat good. But I think I read either here or on reddit that if the ear sensors are covered it can't provide ANC properly, which impacts the efficiency by a lot. The ear hooks tend to really slide and glide on the earbuds and they can end up blocking the ear sensors in that case, which means that it won't block any noise at all.  I really wish the ANC was better at decreasing more mid and high frequency noises as well, but it's definitely not bad.
*Codecs*. Well, I already mentioned it in the battery part. Wish they had more options than just SBC/AAC and LDAC.
*The design*. They certainly aren't beautiful. Better than the biggest earbuds a la Bose QC Buds and Sony WF1000XM3, but sure as hell not pretty in the ears, and they don't exactly look especially luxurious either even if they're not necessarily cheap-looking either. 
*The wingtips*. I'm of the opinion that wingtips can be helpful to make earbuds fit better in the ear for sports and so on, but I don't like the fact that these earbuds were designed in a way where it doesn't make sense to wear them without any wingtips (sharp edges and looks/fits weird), which to me feels like a flawed design from the start. Either do the wingtips a la Beats Fit Pros where they're actually integrated to the earbuds completely, or have them be complementary if you really need it for heavy sports. 
Doesn't help that some people say that their wingtips kinda disintegrate with time (or well, gets all loose and don't fit anymore)
*The crackling sounds *- Some songs do get a slight crackle to them, at least on LDAC. I don't really understand why it happens, and I wish something could be done software-wise to make sure it doesn't happen, but since it hasn't happened yet, I don't really see it happening. It's not on all tracks either so it's a minor inconvenience imo.
*The transparency mode *is slightly weaker than I would've liked. I could with some effort have a conversation with it on, but it's not as strong as I would've liked. I much prefer the Galaxy Buds Pro/Airpods Pro way of being able to really dial in a lot more sound even if it means it sounds less natural. Would I wish the sound was so natural that I didn't know I was wearing earbuds? Yes, duh. But what I prefer in any way is having transparency on so I can actually hear my surroundings and what people are saying to me when I activate it, 100%. 


Look, so they are most likely not better than the Fokus Pro's of the world for sound quality, and maybe the B&O EX could school them in clarity (maybe) and luxurious design/feel, but for the price difference? I paid $79 for mine, and they sound better than some earbuds I've tried for about 4x the cost and is also an overall good earbud as well with good mics and good for sound quality, decent case, good features, and really good all-rounders but with the added benefit of being at the top of the game for sound quality if you really mess with Wavelet and EQ them to your hearts desire. 
If you get them for a cheap price and you're willing to mess with Wavelet, they're such a good set of earbuds. If you find them for full retail... I'd honestly say in hindsight that they're worth that price as well, at least to me. Your mileage may vary, though.


----------



## cresny

FSTOP said:


> Guess im still not getting all of the app settings, dont even see a sound effects tab (no eq, presets, etc).


Yeah that happened to me. The headphones are recognized as the old Freebuds Pro, not 2. I wish they would come up with better model naming! Anyway, what you have to do is delete it, pair manually, then choose the "2" one.


----------



## Bhelpoori

Juturna said:


> Can somebody explain to me a bit how the codecs work in regards to one thing? So, I mainly use my Android phone for music listening, and I've heard people say that AAC isn't that good/reliable on Android in comparison to iOS devices.
> 
> But I mostly use Apple Music when I stream music, and from what I understand, it outputs the music in AAC format. Am I losing more on using SBC over AAC when the app itself outputs files in AAC format? Also kinda confused how AAC is both a file format and a codec? So in the end it might not matter that the track is AAC because it's not the codec itself.


You are confused because there are actually two encodes and decodes going on:
1. Encoded by the Studio or the Music Service e.g. Spotify or Tidal or Warner etc. This is an encode that is the best the encoder can give and is often heavily managed today in the music production chain.
2. This is then decoded in your device into a lossless format that is then mixed with other sounds e.g notifications
3. The lossless mix of your music and other sounds are then encoded in real time into the format the headphone desires e.g. SBC, AAC, LDAC and sent across the Bluetooth radio connection
4. The radio connection stream is then stripped of the wrapping and sent to the decoder where it feeds the amplifier of your headphone.

Apple Music is (1) and your SBC/AAC is (3).

AAC is not the file format. You can encode music from e.g. CD using AAC but if you do that it typically goes into an MP4 type file container.

Also, AAC is a 20 year+ set of encoding tools so it is a generic codec name like BMW is a generic car name…

Android does have a great encoder and decoder in most modern builds. The encode efficiency at (3) however, is often compromised by the energy management system policy of Android as set by the device manufacturer, and the reluctance to pay license fees for more modern AAC tools.


----------



## Ceeluh7

Juturna said:


> I need to do a more in-depth review of the *Soundcore Liberty 3 Pro* now when I've had it for awhile.
> 
> The L3P is honestly my favorite TWS that I've used so far, honestly both overall and sound quality-wise specifically.
> Listening to them on LDAC is just an excellent experience, because the sound stage is honestly pretty fantastic for a TWS in comparison to the many other buds that I've tried before, it really has excellent depth and width to it, better than anything I've heard before in TWS's.
> ...


Nice job man! Great write up. Couldn't agree more too


----------



## Ceeluh7

Juturna said:


> Can somebody explain to me a bit how the codecs work in regards to one thing? So, I mainly use my Android phone for music listening, and I've heard people say that AAC isn't that good/reliable on Android in comparison to iOS devices.
> 
> But I mostly use Apple Music when I stream music, and from what I understand, it outputs the music in AAC format. Am I losing more on using SBC over AAC when the app itself outputs files in AAC format? Also kinda confused how AAC is both a file format and a codec? So in the end it might not matter that the track is AAC because it's not the codec itself.


If you have a newer android device, like the last 4 years than you'll be fine with AAC man.


----------



## Luke Skywalker

Prob off topic but I use two Nvidia shields in my house to stream movies and stuff. Because they run Android you can do the same thing - go into developer options to see which codec is being used. I only have one LDAC listening device though (HiBy buds) so I’ve not been able to do any kind of test between AAC, Aptx and LDAC.


----------



## Juturna

Bhelpoori said:


> You are confused because there are actually two encodes and decodes going on:
> 1. Encoded by the Studio or the Music Service e.g. Spotify or Tidal or Warner etc. This is an encode that is the best the encoder can give and is often heavily managed today in the music production chain.
> 2. This is then decoded in your device into a lossless format that is then mixed with other sounds e.g notifications
> 3. The lossless mix of your music and other sounds are then encoded in real time into the format the headphone desires e.g. SBC, AAC, LDAC and sent across the Bluetooth radio connection
> ...


Ahh, thank you! I guess I was a bit confused about what the deal was, because I do remember AAC files having a different format name (maybe it was .MP4) back in the day when I used to sail the high seas and pirate music, but it was known to be slightly better at lower bitrates IIRC. 

I guess I was just mostly wondering if there was some sort of quality/resolution loss between a service that outputs AAC using earbuds on SBC, but I get that it doesn't really work that way in the end 



Ceeluh7 said:


> If you have a newer android device, like the last 4 years than you'll be fine with AAC man.


Yeah I do, so that's good to hear! I'm not sure what sounds better though, it's so weird because I do feel like I am hearing a difference between SBC and AAC, and it's a bit strange, to me SBC retains the same type of character to the sound as LDAC but I can hear that the audio sounds compressed and has low resolution around the upper mids-ish. AAC I feel like sounds different to LDAC in sound, it feels like the higher frequencies get rolled back quite a bit, almost to the point where I would almost want to use a different EQ than on LDAC. 
Maybe I'm just imagining things.


----------



## Juturna (Aug 6, 2022)

Ceeluh7 said:


> Nice job man! Great write up. Couldn't agree more too


I am really looking forward to seeing (and possibly hearing) what the Soundcore Liberty 4 Pro will be like. If they improve the battery on LDAC or include some other hi-res codec that's more battery efficient they will already be fantastic, but if they can improve the stock tuning a bit, make the case and buds smaller and improve the ANC and still keep the price below $200 I feel like they're going to be worthy a mention in the same category as the real heavy-hitters.

Still feels like people regard Anker/Soundcore as a "not audiophile enough" because the stock tuning is very tailored to your average consumer, and I guess they market themselves a bit as such, but I think they're worthy of being included... Maybe not with Noble Audio and B&O etc, but for sure in the same category as Sennheiser, Technics and I guess Sony for creating great sounding earbuds that are also impressive in features and specs, and not just being "budget friendly bang-for-buck bass boomy earbuds" I know it's been shifting a bit and people here who have tried them are in the know, but I still feel like people rate them lower than they should be. 
I think these sound way better than the Technics AZ60, Sennheiser MTW2s (actually the 3s too, but I've only heard them in passing), better than the Devialet by _far, _and so on.


----------



## Ceeluh7

Juturna said:


> I am really looking forward to seeing (and possibly hearing) what the Soundcore Liberty 4 Pro will be like. If they improve the battery on LDAC or include some other hi-res codec that's more battery efficient they will already be fantastic, but if they can improve the stock tuning a bit, make the case and buds smaller and improve the ANC and still keep the price below $200 I feel like they're going to be worthy a mention in the same category as the real heavy-hitters.
> 
> Still feels like people regard Anker/Soundcore as a "not audiophile enough" because the stock tuning is very tailored to your average consumer, and I guess they market themselves a bit as such, but I think they're worthy of being included... Maybe not with Noble Audio and B&O etc, but for sure in the same category as Sennheiser, Technics and I guess Sony for creating great sounding earbuds that are also impressive in features and specs, and not just being "budget friendly bang-for-buck bass boomy earbuds" I know it's been shifting a bit and people here who have tried them are in the know, but I still feel like people rate them lower than they should be.
> I think these sound way better than the Technics AZ60, Sennheiser MTW2s (actually the 3s too, but I've only heard them in passing), better than the Devialet by _far, _and so on.


I agree. L3P was simply too far off on stock tuning. I was very surprised how well they took to EQ however. I was able to eq that set to a totally different beast and with no audible distortion. I rate the L3P higher than the AZ60's as well as far as SQ is concerned too. I ran k them a bit better than many tws in the price point. Def better than the 1more Evo as well. Ya Id like to see what they do in L4P


----------



## uraklechko

Juturna said:


> I am really looking forward to seeing (and possibly hearing) what the Soundcore Liberty 4 Pro will be like. If they improve the battery on LDAC or include some other hi-res codec that's more battery efficient they will already be fantastic, but if they can improve the stock tuning a bit, make the case and buds smaller and improve the ANC and still keep the price below $200 I feel like they're going to be worthy a mention in the same category as the real heavy-hitters.
> 
> Still feels like people regard Anker/Soundcore as a "not audiophile enough" because the stock tuning is very tailored to your average consumer, and I guess they market themselves a bit as such, but I think they're worthy of being included... Maybe not with Noble Audio and B&O etc, but for sure in the same category as Sennheiser, Technics and I guess Sony for creating great sounding earbuds that are also impressive in features and specs, and not just being "budget friendly bang-for-buck bass boomy earbuds" I know it's been shifting a bit and people here who have tried them are in the know, but I still feel like people rate them lower than they should be.
> I think these sound way better than the Technics AZ60, Sennheiser MTW2s (actually the 3s too, but I've only heard them in passing), better than the Devialet by _far, _and so on.


I own both L3P and Technics AZ60, and can confirm that L3P blows away Technics from any perspective. L3P sound louder, and cleaner, and the soundstage is a lot wider.
I also like how comfortable L3P, cause their corpus does not put into your ears, only tips and earwings, which is beneficial when listening to them for a long time.
Now I'm going to sell Technics


----------



## scubaphish

Good day crew. FYI, Linkbuds S on sale at Amazon for $148 

https://www.amazon.com/Sony-LinkBud...qid=1659783667&sprefix=linkbuds,aps,69&sr=8-3


----------



## March78

AZ60 are nothing special and a little overhyped in my opinion, better than XM4 yes, but I heard many better TWS by now.
Selling the AZ60 too.


----------



## whitete

Juturna said:


> I need to do a more in-depth review of the *Soundcore Liberty 3 Pro* now when I've had it for awhile.
> 
> The L3P is honestly my favorite TWS that I've used so far, honestly both overall and sound quality-wise specifically.
> Listening to them on LDAC is just an excellent experience, because the sound stage is honestly pretty fantastic for a TWS in comparison to the many other buds that I've tried before, it really has excellent depth and width to it, better than anything I've heard before in TWS's.
> ...


Where did you get them for $79?


----------



## Not so fat head

Don't what it's like where you all live, but here in the SF Bay Area, Apple TWS are everywhere.  Went to a mall for the first time in a while, and was surprised at the acceptance of people shoving something in their ears..  That use to be reserved for heating aids...  Seems far more than when it was just IEM's.
Amazing..


----------



## cresny

uraklechko said:


> I own both L3P and Technics AZ60, and can confirm that L3P blows away Technics from any perspective. L3P sound louder, and cleaner, and the soundstage is a lot wider.
> I also like how comfortable L3P, cause their corpus does not put into your ears, only tips and earwings, which is beneficial when listening to them for a long time.
> Now I'm going to sell Technics


Not to dump on the az60 -- I'm keeping mine -- but the Huawei Freebuds Pro 2 is, for me, the best yet, especially when played high resolution, ANC off. 

I think what we're seeing today is the validation of the Shenzhen open tech model. I mean, does anyone else remember when Anker was more known for USB chargers? I think that was like six or seven years ago? 

I was alive in the stone age, before the Sony Walkman, when headphones were actually cans with drivers connected by wires. Now, have a look at what we are buying for under $200. This is insane.

https://www.qucox.com/huawei-freebuds-pro-2-teardown/


----------



## xSDMx

Not so fat head said:


> Don't what it's like where you all live, but here in the SF Bay Area, Apple TWS are everywhere.  Went to a mall for the first time in a while, and was surprised at the acceptance of people shoving something in their ears..  That use to be reserved for heating aids...  Seems far more than when it was just IEM's.
> Amazing..


It's honestly kind of depressing. I love my audio equipment, but I've started intentionally going out "ears free" to try to be more present in my environment. It's nice to be able to strike up a casual conversation when waiting in line, etc.


----------



## Not so fat head

Also, don't forget..  Probably a billion plus transistors too!!!


----------



## Not so fat head

cresny said:


> Not to dump on the az60 -- I'm keeping mine -- but the Huawei Freebuds Pro 2 is, for me, the best yet, especially when played high resolution, ANC off.
> 
> I think what we're seeing today is the validation of the Shenzhen open tech model. I mean, does anyone else remember when Anker was more known for USB chargers? I think that was like six or seven years ago?
> 
> ...


Thank you for the link..  I really enjoy these tear down pics...
As I said, over a billion active elements on those chips too..


----------



## Darkestred

Noble FoKus Pro users.  So, weird issue with this unit.  I use these mainly on my PC.  1 out of 2 uses the right piece will have the noise of electronic interference.  It lasts for about 15 seconds and then is fine.  Does anyone have this issue when using on their phone?


----------



## scubaphish

Darkestred said:


> Noble FoKus Pro users.  So, weird issue with this unit.  I use these mainly on my PC.  1 out of 2 uses the right piece will have the noise of electronic interference.  It lasts for about 15 seconds and then is fine.  Does anyone have this issue when using on their phone?


Haven’t experienced that. Using mostly iPhone 13 pro or apple watch


----------



## Bhelpoori

Juturna said:


> Ahh, thank you! I guess I was a bit confused about what the deal was, because I do remember AAC files having a different format name (maybe it was .MP4) back in the day when I used to sail the high seas and pirate music, but it was known to be slightly better at lower bitrates IIRC.
> 
> I guess I was just mostly wondering if there was some sort of quality/resolution loss between a service that outputs AAC using earbuds on SBC, but I get that it doesn't really work that way in the end
> 
> ...


SBC is a simple encoder/decoder that was thrown into the original Bluetooth (A2DP) Standard in the early 2000s just for a free default. LDAC whilst unconnected and more sophisticated than SBC is (probably, since it is Sony proprietary) of a similar type. AAC is a perceptual codec so it works in a different way and quality much more dependent on the quality of encoding tools used with the family of AAC. This may explain the difference you hear, or it could just be the way the system works for that particular track…really hard to tell from an engineering view.

Normally, for the usual settings you find, AAC should be perceptually better than SBC, but so much depends on so many other factors too such as encoding, tuning, amplifier, speaker, that whether it is able to be heard is difficult to say


----------



## Juturna

Bhelpoori said:


> SBC is a simple encoder/decoder that was thrown into the original Bluetooth (A2DP) Standard in the early 2000s just for a free default. LDAC whilst unconnected and more sophisticated than SBC is (probably, since it is Sony proprietary) of a similar type. AAC is a perceptual codec so it works in a different way and quality much more dependent on the quality of encoding tools used with the family of AAC. This may explain the difference you hear, or it could just be the way the system works for that particular track…really hard to tell from an engineering view.
> 
> Normally, for the usual settings you find, AAC should be perceptually better than SBC, but so much depends on so many other factors too such as encoding, tuning, amplifier, speaker, that whether it is able to be heard is difficult to say


Yeah, I think you might be right that AAC does sound slightly better. I realized after trying a different EQ setting on AAC that audio really did sound better than on AAC, it was just... different at first, and difficult to interpret the difference that I heard. It was more resolving, but highs were slightly rolled off on AAC compared to SBC to my ears. EQ fixed that. Still a faaar cry from LDAC but ultimately decent enough!


----------



## Elvis Costello

The Sony WF-C500 earbuds are currently available for under £60 on Amazon.


----------



## Phaethon

What on earth are these?


----------



## helmutcheese

Overpriced Boutique crap no doubt!

https://www.amazon.com/stores/ELLASEARS/主页/page/087B91D0-C63B-4F2A-B193-FF0C2791EB32


----------



## Phaethon

helmutcheese said:


> Overpriced Boutique crap no doubt!
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/stores/ELLASEARS/主页/page/087B91D0-C63B-4F2A-B193-FF0C2791EB32


I especially find it important to make “non-stop calls” with “continuous strong interference”


----------



## jant71 (Aug 8, 2022)

The list is growing as we now have a JLab offering in the open style TWS with a little gimmick to them...

14.2mm drivers are a little small for this type and, wait, you have the 3 EQ modes on most JLab TWS now and this is the one they only have 2 and leave out the bass one??? Only signature and balanced? You have to scratch your head sometimes. Must have distorted and clipped and they just decided to drop it than fix. Buuut leaving out the bass option with the model that is open and can't seal bass in is odd to me.


----------



## Tenlow

Firmware update for the Free Byrds (the first since I got them), version 1.1.3. - better ANC performance, better call/microphone performance and general bugfixes so they say. Let's see


----------



## Caipirina

cresny said:


> n years ago?
> 
> I was alive in the stone age, before the Sony Walkman, when headphones were actually cans with drivers connected by wires. Now, have a look at what we are buying for under $200. This is insane.


It boggles my mind that by now TWS, this magic technology, can be had for as little as 10$ at dollar stores!


----------



## Tenlow

I think I can hear a bit of white noise (left bud) now with ANC activated on the Free Byrd after the firmware update when it is very quiet. Don't think that was there before. Anybody else?


----------



## Caipirina

Tenlow said:


> Firmware update for the Free Byrds (the first since I got them), version 1.1.3. - better ANC performance, better call/microphone performance and general bugfixes so they say. Let's see


hear any difference yet? So far sounds the same to my old ears


----------



## Tenlow

Caipirina said:


> hear any difference yet? So far sounds the same to my old ears


Just the white noise I've just mentioned in ANC mode...Could swear that this was not there for me before...


----------



## Not so fat head

Juturna said:


> Yeah, I think you might be right that AAC does sound slightly better. I realized after trying a different EQ setting on AAC that audio really did sound better than on AAC, it was just... different at first, and difficult to interpret the difference that I heard. It was more resolving, but highs were slightly rolled off on AAC compared to SBC to my ears. EQ fixed that. Still a faaar cry from LDAC but ultimately decent enough!


Hi Juturna,

I have a Sony A45 player with LDAC.  I can get it to connect to my LDAC enabled TWS's, but the EQ doesn't work.  On any of them..  EQ works with other codec's..  To me, it kind of defeats the purpose..   Strange..
Does EQ work for you?
Thank you..


----------



## Not so fat head

Phaethon said:


> I especially find it important to make “non-stop calls” with “continuous strong interference”


If she comes with the headphones, I'm in...   😃


----------



## jant71 (Aug 8, 2022)

Not so fat head said:


> Hi Juturna,
> 
> I have a Sony A45 player with LDAC.  I can get it to connect to my LDAC enabled TWS's, but the EQ doesn't work.  On any of them..  EQ works with other codec's..  To me, it kind of defeats the purpose..   Strange..
> Does EQ work for you?
> Thank you..


Are you sure. The manual still says this...





Plus I sold the A45 and bought the older A26 for this specific reason. The EQ did nothing regardless of codec. Unless there was another later update or a Mr. Walkman FW allows it.


----------



## Not so fat head

Phaethon said:


> I especially find it important to make “non-stop calls” with “continuous strong interference”


Lol!


----------



## Not so fat head

jant71 said:


> Are you sure. The manual still says this...
> 
> 
> Plus I sold the A45 and bought the older A26 for this specific reason. The EQ did nothing regardless of codec.


Really good point, because sometimes EQ works with SBC and APTX (?)..
Not sure if it has AAC, probably connects to my Apple pro's and Max's via SBC..
Weird!!


----------



## tiagopinto

Phaethon said:


> What on earth are these?



To each his own but my first thoughts were “ridiculous” and “hideous”. 



Phaethon said:


> I especially find it important to make “non-stop calls” with “continuous strong interference”



Hahahaha hahahaha!


----------



## subguy812

xSDMx said:


> It's honestly kind of depressing. I love my audio equipment, but I've started intentionally going out "ears free" to try to be more present in my environment. It's nice to be able to strike up a casual conversation when waiting in line, etc.


I agree! Not to come off like a hateful boomer, but if it isn't being occupied by something in the ears it is staring at the rectangle. Some restaurants are starting to become no cell zones. It appears it is difficult for some folks to unattach to tech and attach to what's real.


----------



## subguy812

Tenlow said:


> I think I can hear a bit of white noise (left bud) now with ANC activated on the Free Byrd after the firmware update when it is very quiet. Don't think that was there before. Anybody else?


Not hearing it, let me focus on it. I do think there may a slight increase in ANC but it could be placebo, and it is difficult to tell since I can't A/B


----------



## Caipirina

Caipirina said:


> Very curious about this claim. They basically look like AirPods 3 (they are called the Storm 3) but with ANC? Hmmmm … tempting. Let’s see if anyone has reviewed them yet.


Remember those guys? 

Surprising exactly no one, I caved in an ordered them on Aug 2 from AliExpress and holy moly they arrived today (8/9), that's a new record!

I was about to write an extensive review, but in the end:don't bother to get them for the promised ANC .. I am still wondering if I am doing something wrong (like many reviewers back with the Galaxy Beans, they just did not 'get' it), but there is only the slightest of difference to my ears ... might be that they only kill super low rumble, which maybe my speakers here with faux airplane noise cannot replicate ... 
Other than that, if you want a black-chrome airpod 3 clone that sounds decent (I cannot really hear a difference, but my brass ears are getting old), have an app with EQ presets, gestures can be mapped (alas, no volume control option) and there's a find my function (oh, but need to sign up to get into app, which stinks) .. with coupons this can be yours for 60$ .. who knows, upcoming sale maybe less  

In addition, I was impressed by the unboxing experience, seems they really try to get one level up to the likes of 1more / Anker / soundpeats 

That said, if I had gotten them via amazon, I would probably return them .. not that they are bad, i just have way too many buds already  

Here a compare with Airpods 3 ... the Baseus are a smidge bigger .. the airpods fit into the Baseus case, but not vice verse


----------



## Luke Skywalker

subguy812 said:


> I agree! Not to come off like a hateful boomer, but if it isn't being occupied by something in the ears it is staring at the rectangle. Some restaurants are starting to become no cell zones. It appears it is difficult for some folks to unattach to tech and attach to what's real.


Ya I always leave my phone in the car when we go to peoples houses or out to restaurants. There’s nothing so important that it can’t wait a while to check for messages or whatever.


----------



## March78

Tenlow said:


> Just the white noise I've just mentioned in ANC mode...Could swear that this was not there for me before...


After the update I now hear a faint high-pitched whine when in transparency mode.
I can only hear it when the room is completely silent and in transparency mode, but it is a little annoying in that case.
Wasn't there before the update.
Do you hear this too?

I don't hear the white noise in ANC mode (well a little actually but that was already there before the update and is very faint).


----------



## Tenlow

March78 said:


> After the update I now hear a faint high-pitched whine when in transparency mode.
> I can only hear it when the room is completely silent and in transparency mode, but it is a little annoying in that case.
> Wasn't there before the update.
> Do you hear this too?
> ...


Funny cause for me it's kind of the other way round. That high pitched tone I have already heard before the update  Yes, I can still notice it. The white noise is faint admittedly, but I somehow seem to notice it now whereas I've never really noticed it before.


----------



## March78

Tenlow said:


> Funny cause for me it's kind of the other way round. That high pitched tone I have already heard before the update  Yes, I can still notice it. The white noise is faint admittedly, but I somehow seem to notice it now whereas I've never really noticed it before.


Probably safe to conclude then both noises were already there before the update but we just didn't notice before 
Both are just pretty minor nitpicks luckily, in my opinion. Still great buds


----------



## Tenlow

March78 said:


> Probably safe to conclude then both noises were already there before the update but we just didn't notice before
> Both are just pretty minor nitpicks luckily, in my opinion. Still great buds


Absolutely. Still my most used buds on a daily basis.


----------



## March78

Tenlow said:


> Absolutely. Still my most used buds on a daily basis.


Same here 👌🏻


----------



## OG10

Thank you guys for making me lean towards the B&O EX - crikey what a cracking pair of ear buds. 
I have been enjoying using them during night time, day time whenever I am far away from my main rig.

The bass is rather surprising for a single unit. The oxygen / anthracite looks gorgeous. 
The Pixel 6 android app isn't working very well atm, perhaps I need to do a factory re-set.

Seems to be a lot more stable for connectivity on iOS, but iPhone 13 PMX still only has BT 5.0.. why apple why


----------



## Caipirina

March78 said:


> After the update I now hear a faint high-pitched whine when in transparency mode.
> I can only hear it when the room is completely silent and in transparency mode, but it is a little annoying in that case.
> Wasn't there before the update.
> Do you hear this too?
> ...


I often here that whine ... it's my tinitus that comes and goes ..   
Never get it quiet enough here to notice these things .. if i really listen really hard I am sure I can even here the sea in the distance ...


----------



## Caipirina

March78 said:


> Same here 👌🏻


Me three  

As far as I know, these are the only buds that accumulate ‘up time’ in the app (in the buds?) and make it very easy to follow just how many hours of usage they get. I wish more buds had that.


----------



## erockg

These Huawei FreeBuds Pro 2 are surprisingly great.  Couldn't resist checking them out due to the Devialet involvement.  Using them on an iPhone 13 Pro.  App seems to work just fine.  Light, wireless charging, great separation, soundstage and full sound.  ANC is good, but I'm having issues with a seal.  They use proprietary tips (AirPods Pro knock off) but a different shape so I can't put on my own tips.  If anyone knows a fix, let me know!

All the above said, I feel like someone is following me.  Ugh.


----------



## Caipirina (Aug 9, 2022)

erockg said:


> These Huawei FreeBuds Pro 2 are surprisingly great.  Couldn't resist checking them out due to the Devialet involvement.  Using them on an iPhone 13 Pro.  App seems to work just fine.  Light, wireless charging, great separation, soundstage and full sound.  ANC is good, but I'm having issues with a seal.  They use proprietary tips (AirPods Pro knock off) but a different shape so I can't put on my own tips.  If anyone knows a fix, let me know!
> 
> All the above said, I feel like someone is following me.  Ugh.


hmmm .. tempting .. amazon JP has a 10% off coupon at the moment ... still 178USD ... and I really do not NEED another set 

I hope I can stay strong until the APP2 .. and abstain from new purchases ...

(edit: oh, great, e-earphone has a used set in mint condition for 141USD ... noooooo)


----------



## Luke Skywalker (Aug 9, 2022)

Caipirina said:


> I often here that whine ... it's my tinitus that comes and goes ..
> Never get it quiet enough here to notice these things .. if i really listen really hard I am sure I can even here the sea in the distance ...


Have you tried this technique? http://health.learninginfo.org/tinnitus.htm

It looks funny doing it but it helped mine go away a month or so ago. Now I try to listen at like 70 db or less


----------



## darveniza

Caipirina said:


> hmmm .. tempting .. amazon JP has a 10% off coupon at the moment ... still 178USD ... and I really do not NEED another set
> 
> I hope I can stay strong until the APP2 .. and abstain from new purchases ...
> 
> (edit: oh, great, e-earphone has a used set in mint condition for 141USD ... noooooo)


Thanks for tip. Had the blue ones but preferred the white and just purchased


----------



## Caipirina (Aug 10, 2022)

darveniza said:


> Thanks for tip. Had the blue ones but preferred the white and just purchased


i thought those were the blue ones they had shown ... 



Thanks for taking this temptation off my plate 

How you deal with online ordering from e-earphone? I have not figured it out yet, language barrier ...  unless they use amazon pay?

Or maybe you meant the tip with amazon japan 10% off .. 

The ones at e-earphone are gone anyways


----------



## james444

erockg said:


> These Huawei FreeBuds Pro 2 are surprisingly great.  Couldn't resist checking them out due to the Devialet involvement.  Using them on an iPhone 13 Pro.  App seems to work just fine.  Light, wireless charging, great separation, soundstage and full sound.  ANC is good, but I'm having issues with a seal.  They use proprietary tips (AirPods Pro knock off) but a different shape so I can't put on my own tips.  If anyone knows a fix, let me know!



You can try to cannibalize some spare foam tips and add foam underneath the proprietary Huawei tips. Pretty much the only option that comes to mind.

Think Symbio hybrid tips: https://www.amazon.ca/SYMBIO-Silicone-Provides-Isolation-Performance/dp/B08R94Y7SB


----------



## Jhericurls

OG10 said:


> Thank you guys for making me lean towards the B&O EX - crikey what a cracking pair of ear buds.
> I have been enjoying using them during night time, day time whenever I am far away from my main rig.



Bet they sound amazing, I have a pair of EQ and they make me go wow. Want to upgrade but can't justify the price.

People say sound quality is subjective... it's not.  Sound quality is clarity, definition and separation.  Its musicality and tuning that is subjective.


----------



## Aevum

I have the original freebuds Pro and i found these 2

https://es.aliexpress.com/item/1005..._list.0.0.147e194dRPHGCs&gatewayAdapt=glo2esp Foam tips from misodiko and Alza style tips (NOT ALZA MADE)
https://es.aliexpress.com/item/1005..._list.0.0.147e194dRPHGCs&gatewayAdapt=glo2esp

Both are meh but the alza style give me the best seal.


----------



## astroid

Been trying lots of different tws, Sony 1000xm3, nothing ear, Gemini, sennheiser sport and Shure Aonic free.
Long story short , keeping the Shures. Gemini close second but the lack of ANC allows the Shure to sound better (cleaner, nicer bass and lovely treble that doesn't draw attention to itself)
The Shure app is also excellent with great eq and media player.

Really didn't expect them to win when I saw them!


----------



## astroid

As for ANC , Sony is ahead on this imo (especially with over ear phones). Even then it introduces noise into the music, guess it doesn't matter much on a plane.
Nothing ear is a great first effort, my issue with it was that the default sound is too thin, needed to use bass eq and when you activate ANC it's far too bassy with that eq. So no happy balance really. Will try their ear 2 when it comes though.


----------



## subguy812

erockg said:


> These Huawei FreeBuds Pro 2 are surprisingly great.  Couldn't resist checking them out due to the Devialet involvement.  Using them on an iPhone 13 Pro.  App seems to work just fine.  Light, wireless charging, great separation, soundstage and full sound.  ANC is good, but I'm having issues with a seal.  They use proprietary tips (AirPods Pro knock off) but a different shape so I can't put on my own tips.  If anyone knows a fix, let me know!
> 
> All the above said, I feel like someone is following me.  Ugh.


Which Azla is on your B&O?


----------



## carmatic (Aug 10, 2022)

I own an Etymotic ER4-SR , and a Sony WF-1000XM4 ... I apply AutoEQ https://github.com/jaakkopasanen/AutoEq/ when I listen to both of them so that I get as close to the same frequency response as possible to both of them, normally the Sony wireless earbuds has a significant and broad peak at the lower mids which makes them subjectively worser to listen to... Now with the equalization, I get almost the same sound from my wired BA IEMs , as well as my wireless noise cancelling earbuds

But, there is still a difference that equalization cannot fix, and that is data compression...  While some of it can be down to the differences between the balanced armatures in my wired IEMs and the dynamic drivers in the wireless earbuds, I think that the degradation of the sound signal is playing a big role
Being a child of the 90's, the best way I can describe it is like the difference between hearing a CD player and a Game Boy Advance , only much subtler

Listening to wired earphones is technically and physically the de facto standard, and when I compare my Etymotics to Sony earbuds (both with equalization) , all the sound especially the higher frequencies sound more 'physical' and realistic, and also the bass feels like it hits deeper ... The frequency response is enforced by the AutoEQ equalization , but the wireless earbuds are still lacking a certain quality which makes the sound feel flat and distant, I just don't feel like I am 'right there' in the sound...
The word I want to use to describe it is 'clarity' , but this is the best analogy that I can think of for now: With the re-recording of analog audio and photocopying of analog pictures, you lose clarity of your original material by means that can be described by some physical parameter such as muffling from the loss of high frequency sound and bluriness from the loss of spatial resolution in the picture.... 
But with digital sound and pictures, you are using psycho-perceptual calculations in your data compression and the loss in clarity is harder to express, we have one word to describe this loss in all forms of digital media: Artifacting

The very nature of the wireless technology in the earbuds is a compromise to the very function of sound reproducibility ... I can't wait until the day when they can wirelessly send uncompressed digital audio 

However, the lack of a cable and its associated microphonics, and more importantly not having to hear the rumbling from both my own body(heartbeat, muscle movement, etc etc) and my surroundings(cars outside my apartment, the hum of A/C units, etc etc), makes just turning on the noise cancelling a positive experience in its own right


----------



## DigDub

So Samsung released the buds 2 pro, and not the buds pro 2.


----------



## erockg

james444 said:


> You can try to cannibalize some spare foam tips and add foam underneath the proprietary Huawei tips. Pretty much the only option that comes to mind.
> 
> Think Symbio hybrid tips: https://www.amazon.ca/SYMBIO-Silicone-Provides-Isolation-Performance/dp/B08R94Y7SB


That’s exactly what I did if you look closely at the photo!  The Symbio foam is a little too small so I might try to cut up some Comply tips instead today. I’ll report back if that helps.


----------



## erockg

Aevum said:


> I have the original freebuds Pro and i found these 2
> 
> https://es.aliexpress.com/item/1005..._list.0.0.147e194dRPHGCs&gatewayAdapt=glo2esp Foam tips from misodiko and Alza style tips (NOT ALZA MADE)
> https://es.aliexpress.com/item/1005..._list.0.0.147e194dRPHGCs&gatewayAdapt=glo2esp
> ...


Exactly what I was scouring the Internet for. Thanks for the heads up!


----------



## erockg

subguy812 said:


> Which Azla is on your B&O?


ML 
AZLA SednaEarfit Crystal Standard​


----------



## erockg

Not for me, but cool concept for those who care:  https://gizmodo.com/urbanista-solar-powered-wireless-earbuds-charging-case-1849394705


----------



## C_Lindbergh

Hmm, the design of the new Galaxy Buds reminds me of the excellent LinkBuds S, might buy them in the future when they (and my devices) supports LE-audio. Not too appeling atm since I don't have a Samsung device.


----------



## Fleeple

C_Lindbergh said:


> Hmm, the design of the new Galaxy Buds reminds me of the excellent LinkBuds S, might buy them in the future when they (and my devices) supports LE-audio. Not too appeling atm since I don't have a Samsung device.


Agreed; it's too bad they decided to lock all their real game-changers away behind their brand name. Still looking at the lg dolby atmos buds....preliminary reviews are promising.


----------



## EMINENT

Fleeple said:


> Agreed; it's too bad they decided to lock all their real game-changers away behind their brand name. Still looking at the lg dolby atmos buds....preliminary reviews are promising.


Such a nice package, perfect size, hobbled by missing multipoint. Sigh....


----------



## Tstorey

Well my Jabra 65 have finally given up the ghost (RIP, you were a faithful Teams servant) so I’ve “relegated” my Jabra 75t’s to my multiple teams calls daily life which has left me with just my M&D MW07 for audio. Whilst I’ve enjoyed the fit better since finding the Sedna max tips I’m still hankering after a new set (and a nice tax rebate has only added to that).

Current choices;

1) B&O EX. I have H95i, Beolit 20 and beoplay A2 and love their sound, quality and ease of use.
2) MTW3; never had a sennheiser product before but you guys seem to like them
3) AirPods Pro; now this is a little left of field but bear with. People on here have raved about their ease of use (I’m tied into the Apple ecosystem including ”hi-res” Apple Music subscription), their fit (important, I struggle to get a good fit) and, don’t shoot the messenger, their sound. Am I stupid to consider these? I keep coming back to them and thinking they might just tick a lot of boxes…

What’s the collective view? Anything obvious I’m missing?


----------



## C_Lindbergh

Tstorey said:


> Well my Jabra 65 have finally given up the ghost (RIP, you were a faithful Teams servant) so I’ve “relegated” my Jabra 75t’s to my multiple teams calls daily life which has left me with just my M&D MW07 for audio. Whilst I’ve enjoyed the fit better since finding the Sedna max tips I’m still hankering after a new set (and a nice tax rebate has only added to that).
> 
> Current choices;
> 
> ...


Are the Linkbuds S on your radar? I'm. Very happy with mine, they'll also get an upgrade for LE audio in the future.


----------



## Tstorey

C_Lindbergh said:


> Are the Linkbuds S on your radar? I'm. Very happy with mine, they'll also get an upgrade for LE audio in the future.


Honestly no as I want something more “normal” and I really struggle with fit. I think I’m likely to struggle with these (based on my “research”) but thanks for the tip (no pun intended)


----------



## C_Lindbergh

Tstorey said:


> Honestly no as I want something more “normal” and I really struggle with fit. I think I’m likely to struggle with these (based on my “research”) but thanks for the tip (no pun intended)


Oh I see, well everyones ears are different, personally the Linkbuds S are the most comfy tws I've tried so far.


----------



## maor26

Tstorey said:


> Well my Jabra 65 have finally given up the ghost (RIP, you were a faithful Teams servant) so I’ve “relegated” my Jabra 75t’s to my multiple teams calls daily life which has left me with just my M&D MW07 for audio. Whilst I’ve enjoyed the fit better since finding the Sedna max tips I’m still hankering after a new set (and a nice tax rebate has only added to that).
> 
> Current choices;
> 
> ...


If you're considering the airpods pro, maybe you should wait a little bit with your purchase.
The original airpods pros came out a long time ago(2019 if I'm not mistaken) and rumors are that a new model is due to come out sometime this year.


----------



## Tstorey

maor26 said:


> If you're considering the airpods pro, maybe you should wait a little bit with your purchase.
> The original airpods pros came out a long time ago(2019 if I'm not mistaken) and rumors are that a new model is due to come out sometime this year.


Hmmm what is this “waiting” you speak of? Is it similar to patience? 😉


----------



## OneL0ve (Aug 10, 2022)

I've tried many TWS headphones. Always looking for loudness, good sound quality and impactful BASS.

 My daily TWS are JVC HA-XC90T (with Aptx) and Sony WF-XB700  (No Aptx, but that price is right)  Both are Bass head earphones and sound great.  

Recently, I got the MOMENTUM True Wireless 3 for $85 (after discounts and points). 

I was skeptical, but wow these have boom, sound great, has usable ANC that works, plus transparency mode and an application with EQs and useful features.

The MTW3 Firmware updates could be faster (20 minutes? Wut), but oh well. it's a well rounded TWS.


----------



## OneL0ve (Aug 10, 2022)

BTW the *BlitzWolf® BW-FYE9* TWS is loud and the MOST impactful Bass I ever heard. It Has 14.2mm drivers and APTx.





https://usa.banggood.com/BlitzWolf-...ency-Gaming-Headphone-with-Mic-p-1736012.html

One tiny problem :  to get maximum bass thump and proper seal out of them you need to get the *AhaStyle* AirPod Ear Tips Silicone Earbuds Covers. But it works.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07V296RYV


----------



## Phaethon

Tstorey said:


> Well my Jabra 65 have finally given up the ghost (RIP, you were a faithful Teams servant) so I’ve “relegated” my Jabra 75t’s to my multiple teams calls daily life which has left me with just my M&D MW07 for audio. Whilst I’ve enjoyed the fit better since finding the Sedna max tips I’m still hankering after a new set (and a nice tax rebate has only added to that).
> 
> Current choices;
> 
> ...



FWIW - I’m using the AirPods 3 a lot right now. It has all of the H1 chip goodies and the musical SQ has grown exponentially. Half ears, so I use my MTW 3s when I need ANC. I’m looking forward to seeing what Apple has in store with the APP 2, and maybe they’ll give them the same musicality as their new half ears


----------



## Luke Skywalker

Tstorey said:


> Well my Jabra 65 have finally given up the ghost (RIP, you were a faithful Teams servant) so I’ve “relegated” my Jabra 75t’s to my multiple teams calls daily life which has left me with just my M&D MW07 for audio. Whilst I’ve enjoyed the fit better since finding the Sedna max tips I’m still hankering after a new set (and a nice tax rebate has only added to that).
> 
> Current choices;
> 
> ...


Noble Audio FoKus PRO, my friend​


----------



## cresny

Tstorey said:


> Well my Jabra 65 have finally given up the ghost (RIP, you were a faithful Teams servant) so I’ve “relegated” my Jabra 75t’s to my multiple teams calls daily life which has left me with just my M&D MW07 for audio. Whilst I’ve enjoyed the fit better since finding the Sedna max tips I’m still hankering after a new set (and a nice tax rebate has only added to that).
> 
> Current choices;
> 
> ...


I would not get the APP, mostly because a long-awaited new version will be out in a few months, and from what you're saying it looks like there's a good chance it will be something you'll want. Therefore whatever you get might just be an inbetweener, so maybe the B&O is pricy for that. I have the new Huaweis, and their planar tweeter + dynamic driver setup is pretty special (though from what I can tell the new Oppos have nearly identical hardware), and can probably be had at a lower price than the others. I would wait to read what erockg has to say about them in comparison with the other two, which I have not heard.


----------



## dweaver

Tstorey said:


> Honestly no as I want something more “normal” and I really struggle with fit. I think I’m likely to struggle with these (based on my “research”) but thanks for the tip (no pun intended)


Are you perhaps confusing the Linkbuds with the Linkbuds S? The S model it pretty normal in regards to TWS design but extremely comfortable where as the Linkbuds model has that hole in it and has fit issues for a lot of people.


----------



## Tstorey

Thanks for the feedback all. I may be patient and wait for the new APP announcement and see what they bring before making any decisions…


----------



## raymanh

Tstorey said:


> Well my Jabra 65 have finally given up the ghost (RIP, you were a faithful Teams servant) so I’ve “relegated” my Jabra 75t’s to my multiple teams calls daily life which has left me with just my M&D MW07 for audio. Whilst I’ve enjoyed the fit better since finding the Sedna max tips I’m still hankering after a new set (and a nice tax rebate has only added to that).
> 
> Current choices;
> 
> ...



In a similar boat to you. My 75t's are starting to lose their battery. I'm leaning towards the Linkbuds S, although I need to try them first because if they're anything like their XM4/5 headphones it'll be a big no from me. Absolutely hate their congested muddy sound.


----------



## Phaethon

raymanh said:


> In a similar boat to you. My 75t's are starting to lose their battery. I'm leaning towards the Linkbuds S, although I need to try them first because if they're anything like their XM4/5 headphones it'll be a big no from me. Absolutely hate their congested muddy sound.



I have everything you’re referring to. In terms of my perception of the SQ it ranks thusly:
XM5 >Jabra 75t Active>Linkbuds S
YMMV but the XM5s have the best separation and imaging of the lot for me. Clearest and happiest-making: Noble Fokus Pro


----------



## erockg

cresny said:


> I would not get the APP, mostly because a long-awaited new version will be out in a few months, and from what you're saying it looks like there's a good chance it will be something you'll want. Therefore whatever you get might just be an inbetweener, so maybe the B&O is pricy for that. I have the new Huaweis, and their planar tweeter + dynamic driver setup is pretty special (though from what I can tell the new Oppos have nearly identical hardware), and can probably be had at a lower price than the others. I would wait to read what erockg has to say about them in comparison with the other two, which I have not heard.





Tstorey said:


> Thanks for the feedback all. I may be patient and wait for the new APP announcement and see what they bring before making any decisions…


The Huawei FreeBuds Pro 2 and B&O EX crush the AirPods Pro.  I truly want Apple to kick ass on the next iteration, but I'm not holding my breath.  My APP have been sitting in my tech bag for months and I'm an Apple ecosystem guy.  Both the EX and FBP2 have multi-pairing, soundstages are great, separation and punch is exceptional.  So far, they work flawless on both my iPhone and iPad for wfh zooms, phone calls, music, whatever.  If you're coming from the 65T & 75T, you'll be in heaven imo.


----------



## C_Lindbergh

Was gonna order the Free Byrds since I have heard so great stuff about them... But apparently BeyerDynamic only ships to like 1/3 of all EU countries...And the price of the Free Byrds at the few dealers in my country is around 50 EUR more expensive (with the 10% newsletter discount)...Also I cannot return at the dealers in my country unlike when you buy them directly from Beyer...Which seems really important in this case since the Free Byrds have quite a bulky design. 

Screw it then BeyerDynamic, I refuse to pay much more money with worse return conditions, if you can ship them to Finland, then you can ship them to the rest of Scandinavia.


----------



## Sam L

Jhericurls said:


> Bet they sound amazing, I have a pair of EQ and they make me go wow. Want to upgrade but can't justify the price.
> 
> People say sound quality is subjective... it's not.  Sound quality is clarity, definition and separation.  Its musicality and tuning that is subjective.


re: sound quality, very true, but we've all conflated the concepts into a generic label of "sound quality".


----------



## Sam L

Tstorey said:


> Well my Jabra 65 have finally given up the ghost (RIP, you were a faithful Teams servant) so I’ve “relegated” my Jabra 75t’s to my multiple teams calls daily life which has left me with just my M&D MW07 for audio. Whilst I’ve enjoyed the fit better since finding the Sedna max tips I’m still hankering after a new set (and a nice tax rebate has only added to that).
> 
> Current choices;
> 
> ...


you needs are a bit tricky, particularly since most of the references in this thread are to sound quality and not so much the quality of the mics. Also, not many may be aware, but the Jabra 65t's have EXCELLENT mics for call quality -- easily still top tier in today's market. 

my go-to tws for calls (mostly computer, but some phone) are:
- sony linkbuds
- samsung beans
- soundcore liberty 3 pro
- best budget (semi-open) tribit flybuds 2

I'm sure the mtw3 has better mics? but all 4 of these run circles around the mtw2 for calls and are as good or better than the airpods pros (which I still use frequently).


----------



## OneL0ve

What is APP in this conversation? 

I write software so that just means application to me.


----------



## C_Lindbergh

OneL0ve said:


> What is APP in this conversation?
> 
> I write software so that just means application to me.


Air Pods Pro


----------



## OneL0ve

C_Lindbergh said:


> Air Pods Pro


Lolo! Ah, I avoid Apple at all costs.


----------



## Tstorey

Sam L said:


> you needs are a bit tricky, particularly since most of the references in this thread are to sound quality and not so much the quality of the mics. Also, not many may be aware, but the Jabra 65t's have EXCELLENT mics for call quality -- easily still top tier in today's market.
> 
> my go-to tws for calls (mostly computer, but some phone) are:
> - sony linkbuds
> ...


Aaah no, maybe I wasn’t clear, my Jabra 75t’s have been ”relegated” to teams duties, I’m after something for music primarily with an occasional call (phone). The Jabra 65t were superb, immediate connection and always sounded clear, my only issue was with a lack of transparency so I always had the left bud slightly out of my ear so I could gauge how loud I was.


----------



## BooleanBones

Tstorey said:


> Aaah no, maybe I wasn’t clear, my Jabra 75t’s have been ”relegated” to teams duties, I’m after something for music primarily with an occasional call (phone). The Jabra 65t were superb, immediate connection and always sounded clear, my only issue was with a lack of transparency so I always had the left bud slightly out of my ear so I could gauge how loud I was.


I have not bought much recently, but I will give my input on these and where I landed. Since your 75s take care of your conference meetings, you really are down to phone calls/music/feature availability.

I currently have:
EX - I love them for sound, size/fit, waterproof rating, and they have a decent usable app (with the wheel of sound). Transparency is there, but weaker than the others. You can hear yourself fine, it's just their weakest feature imo.
APP - I use these for phone calls (including zoom/teams). For this purpose, they rock with good ANC/Transparency.
XM4s - I keep these for their ANC and if I have to travel. I fortunately find these very comfortable for long periods, where other folks don't like them. They also sound pretty good with some EQing, so they stay in the stable.
Fokus Pros - Based on your need for transparency, these won't do it for you as there is none. They sound beautiful though.

have owned or will be selling:
MTW3 - I did like these, but I liked the EX better (mainly for ip57, but also sound profile). The transparency on these seemed quite natural to me. Audio and fit was real good too. The touch control footprint is much bigger as well, which irritates me at times when I am simply trying to adjust or take out of my ears (similar to other TWS).
AZ60s - I like these a lot too, but they just aren't as comfortable to me as the others since they sit a bit deeper in the ears. Also, no wireless charging (but not a deal breaker).
EQs - I liked these a lot too for their sound, but I experienced enough flakiness with them, I gave up.

Budget flyers you may check on that I like/have:
AKG n400 - best 50$ I have spent in a long time. Headphones sit backwards in the case, but it's ok.
Melomania Touch - They won't win in any phone call comparisons, but pretty solid comfortable set for ~100$

All based on my preferences of course, but maybe it will give you some ideas. Good luck.


----------



## OneL0ve

How did I miss this? Whoa.


----------



## dweaver

raymanh said:


> In a similar boat to you. My 75t's are starting to lose their battery. I'm leaning towards the Linkbuds S, although I need to try them first because if they're anything like their XM4/5 headphones it'll be a big no from me. Absolutely hate their congested muddy sound.


I hear you about the Sony sound getting to dark sounding and muddy. I took a chance in the Linkbuds S and glad I did. They definitely have a nicely balanced sound without the dark bass heavy sound of the WF-1000XM3 or my old WH-1000XM3. I did not buy the WF-1000XM4 nor the WH-1000XM4/5 because I could test both WH models a knew it was not the sound I wanted and everything I read about the WF told me I would have the same feeling about them.

The Linkbuds S on the other hand have been played since day one with no EQ tweaking aside from playing around and sound fantastic. I listen to Jazz, classical, Choral, a lot of older rock, Celtic, and more and so far aside from a few Hans Zimmer tracks I have been super satisfied. Those few tracks could have used a bit more sub-bass but still sounded good enough.

The Linkbuds S also happen to the most comfortable TWS I have owned and have great ANC/Ambient and simple passive isolation. I love that they went back to the regular silicone hybrid tips as well.


----------



## erockg

For those looking for a great fix to the comfort of the Bose Quietcomfort TWS.  I've had these before and decided to try again because I found some great alternative tips.  Bought them off eBay, but they came with foam tips.  Decided to squeeze on some Azla tips and wallah!  These things create an even better seal and zero issues with comfort now.  They sound so much better without the any sound leak, bass is more pronounced.  Bose should really so something like this.

Here's a link to the tips I purchased:  https://www.ebay.com/itm/274850424607?var=575102577189


----------



## Caipirina

erockg said:


> For those looking for a great fix to the comfort of the Bose Quietcomfort TWS.  I've had these before and decided to try again because I found some great alternative tips.  Bought them off eBay, but they came with foam tips.  Decided to squeeze on some Azla tips and wallah!  These things create an even better seal and zero issues with comfort now.  They sound so much better without the any sound leak, bass is more pronounced.  Bose should really so something like this.
> 
> Here's a link to the tips I purchased:  https://www.ebay.com/itm/274850424607?var=575102577189


that looks super interesting ... strange that nothing like that pops up on aliepxress ...  20$ is a bit rich for my flavor .. since I am actually a big fan of the StayHear tips ... but I'd be curious to hear the difference ...


----------



## Tstorey

BooleanBones said:


> I have not bought much recently, but I will give my input on these and where I landed. Since your 75s take care of your conference meetings, you really are down to phone calls/music/feature availability.
> 
> I currently have:
> EX - I love them for sound, size/fit, waterproof rating, and they have a decent usable app (with the wheel of sound). Transparency is there, but weaker than the others. You can hear yourself fine, it's just their weakest feature imo.
> ...


Thanks for this, I’m now about 90% decided on the EX but keep wondering about the new iteration of APP and wonder if I should wait “just in case”. I’ve got the MW07s in the short term but then I’m also impatient… 😂


----------



## March78

Tstorey said:


> Thanks for this, I’m now about 90% decided on the EX but keep wondering about the new iteration of APP and wonder if I should wait “just in case”. I’ve got the MW07s in the short term but then I’m also impatient… 😂


Pure for soundquality, along with comfort and nice buildquality I would absolutely go for the EX. That is as long as you don't mind that ANC and transparency are both trash on these.


----------



## tiagopinto (Aug 12, 2022)

C_Lindbergh said:


> Was gonna order the Free Byrds since I have heard so great stuff about them... But apparently BeyerDynamic only ships to like 1/3 of all EU countries...And the price of the Free Byrds at the few dealers in my country is around 50 EUR more expensive (with the 10% newsletter discount)...Also I cannot return at the dealers in my country unlike when you buy them directly from Beyer...Which seems really important in this case since the Free Byrds have quite a bulky design.
> 
> Screw it then BeyerDynamic, I refuse to pay much more money with worse return conditions, if you can ship them to Finland, then you can ship them to the rest of Scandinavia.



Hi, reading many people here raving about them, I recently also had a sudden impulse to get the Free Byrds.

Unfortunately they also do not deliver to Portugal. Not from their website or from amazon.de (the only EU amazon where I found them).

I contacted the local distributor for Beyerdynamic and I’m waiting for a reply on availability. There goes the “impulse buy” as I’m more focused on upgrading my IEM game at the moment. But who knows... I also would like to upgrade from the CA MT too. And this one looks like a worthy contender.

These are the countries they ship to. Spain is there, Portugal is not...





Edit: I was just on the phone with the distributor for Portugal and I have a quote at 235€ (with the VAT adjustment) and availability for the first week of September. The rep told me you should probably contact your local distributor at:


----------



## subguy812 (Aug 12, 2022)

Update on my previous post, showing the EX, Free Byrd, XM4 and Google Pro. I returned the Google Pixel Bud Pro, because of the short nozzle and fit. They were comfortable and I really enjoyed them, but couldn't obtain an adequate seal. I think they are greatly improved, sound quality was good, anc okay and anyway you get the deal. If I had a proper seal, I would like to have spent more time with them.

The EX are still my King. For my uses even the anc is fine, but I do not take public transport so I can't report on that. The SQ, while subjective, is the best of the 4 top tier TW I have/had. The Free Byrd sound good as well, but keep in mind I have been reviewing portable audio gear for more than 10 years, (mostly Headphones, IEMs, DAPs and so on) so my listening has become critical. For my purposes, EX are clear sound quality kings. Good call quality.

Free Byrd are good, but they may go back to Amazon. I find myself fiddling with them too much in my ears because of the weird fit, and while they are fun, I see no need for them, except a backup. They have the best unboxing pack-ins of everything TW I have seen. The sound is full and the personalization works well. I found myself switching between personalized and original sound. I may keep them just because they are new and I want to see what F/W can bring. Good quality, wind gives me some issues.

Sony XM4, I really like these. I could see where some could have fit issues. Spinfit tips give me a comfortable seal. In most of my audiophile listening I NEVER eq. but I have found the XM4 really benefit from eq. I have found sound settings that are really good. Obviously, anc is top tier.  I am selling these in the classifieds only because the Free Byrd are a newer release. The Sony have less than 10 hours on them, and I bought them new. If they don't quick sell, I may change my mind, I closed the listing once already.

I need to keep one as a backup and it is a tough choice which one to keep. For my use and ears, Sony or Free Byrd would serve me as a great backup or if it was a choice of owning one either of these would make me happy as my only TW.

Keep in mind these are only my thoughts and I am certain YMMV. At the end of all of this enjoy what you enjoy. If you find something you like, enjoy it!

We will see what's next on the horizon, I think the new LG have caught my eye. I really only want top tier, too many models otherwise and another audio rabbit hole. I am open to suggestions.


----------



## C_Lindbergh (Aug 12, 2022)

tiagopinto said:


> Hi, reading many people here raving about them, I recently also had a sudden impulse to get the Free Byrds.
> 
> Unfortunately they also do not deliver to Portugal. Not from their website or from amazon.de (the only EU amazon where I found them).
> 
> ...


Yes I did! I can actually buy them now in my country...


But its very annoying that people who can order directly from Beyer can get them for 209 EUR with the discount code along with 60 days return window.

Whilst I'll have to pay 258 EUR with no way to return them if the fit isn't for me.

Kinda lost interest...why dont Beyer just ship to all EU countries...So yeah, I don't really wanna support a company that charges me 258 EUR when people in Germany,France, Finland etc can get them for 209 EUR.


----------



## helmutcheese

They have a site on Amazon UK but not got the Free Byrds yet, Amazon US had them from day one.


----------



## Caipirina

C_Lindbergh said:


> Yes I did! I can actually buy them now in my country...
> 
> 
> But its very annoying that people who can order directly from Beyer can get them for 209 EUR with the discount code along with 60 days return window.
> ...


Unfortunately we are not there yet as a global economy .. never understood why i.e. many of the recent Sony products were first available in the US .. and only weeks later in Sony's home country of Japan ...  
Or all those amazon US specials that we other amazon users don't get ... 
Sometimes it plays in your favor and sometimes not ... 

That all being said, apparently we all have a hoarding problem and should seek help  

I am soooo eyeing the Huawei FB2Pro .. and don't even know why. At least I could hop on a train to Akihabara and give them a listen first ... 
I would possibly do that today, but we have a typhoon coming into town.


----------



## Ceeluh7

Here is Mahir's take on the Tinbuds 3 below. I really want to check this set out myself. Granted they lack features that some require. I just hear good things about the sound and am pretty curious. That huge case though... Tin Hifi... Wth?!? 
https://www.mobileaudiophile.com/tin-hifi-live-buds-3-review/


----------



## BigZ12

Bought the Linkbuds S today. Main purpose to use with HTPC and Fiio BTA30 Pro in the living room (LDAC codec).
Just tried them on my iPhone with AAC for now (updating firmware now), but am very impressed with first impressions.
Soo comfortable, light (can't feel them in the ear at all) and with a little eq'ing (+ 2db treble) they sound amazing.
ANC is almost unbelivable.  Live close to a noisy street, and I hear less traffic noise than with the WH-1000XM5.
These are a keeper, if the BT range is ok with LDAC and the Fiio.


----------



## Sam L

BigZ12 said:


> Bought the Linkbuds S today. Main purpose to use with HTPC and Fiio BTA30 Pro in the living room (LDAC codec).
> Just tried them on my iPhone with AAC for now (updating firmware now), but am very impressed with first impressions.
> Soo comfortable, light (can't feel them in the ear at all) and with a little eq'ing (+ 2db treble) they sound amazing.
> ANC is almost unbelivable.  Live close to a noisy street, and I hear less traffic noise than with the WH-1000XM5.
> These are a keeper, if the BT range is ok with LDAC and the Fiio.


interesting... does anyone know if the linkbuds s has better ANC than the wf-1000xm4? I'd assume similar. i dont get very good isolation with my xm4's so the anc isn't anywhere near my headphone xm4


----------



## cresny

Sam L said:


> interesting... does anyone know if the linkbuds s has better ANC than the wf-1000xm4? I'd assume similar. i dont get very good isolation with my xm4's so the anc isn't anywhere near my headphone xm4


I think you may have answered your own question


----------



## Phaethon

Ceeluh7 said:


> Here is Mahir's take on the Tinbuds 3 below. I really want to check this set out myself. Granted they lack features that some require. I just hear good things about the sound and am pretty curious. That huge case though... Tin Hifi... Wth?!?
> https://www.mobileaudiophile.com/tin-hifi-live-buds-3-review/



Ive got them coming a week from next tuesday. I’ll report then!


----------



## BigZ12

Sam L said:


> interesting... does anyone know if the linkbuds s has better ANC than the wf-1000xm4? I'd assume similar. i dont get very good isolation with my xm4's so the anc isn't anywhere near my headphone xm4


I had the WF-1000XM4, but I didn't get optimal fit with that either, so I can't really answer your question.
What I can say is that when using the original L tips, I have very good ANC with the Linkbuds S. 

BUT when using the L I also get this (typical for me) noise especially in the left ear when moving the mouth/chewing and so on... 
Have to try some tip rolling to see if I can get both good ANC and limit the mentioned noise.

LDAC from Fiio BTA30 Pro, using Apple Music Lossless with BlueStacks on Windows 11, sounds very good!! Pleased with everything other than the soundstage. Sounds a little narrow?

BT range with LDAC is sadly not impressive. Starts clipping when just going to the hallway in my little apartment, so only useful in the living room/kitchen (open solution).


----------



## Ceeluh7

Phaethon said:


> Ive got them coming a week from next tuesday. I’ll report then!


Sounds good man. Enjoy


----------



## dweaver

Sam L said:


> interesting... does anyone know if the linkbuds s has better ANC than the wf-1000xm4? I'd assume similar. i dont get very good isolation with my xm4's so the anc isn't anywhere near my headphone xm4


In your case because you can not get an optimal fit with the XM4 I would bet you will like the Linkbuds S more and think they have better ANC. For someone who can get a good fit with the XM4 they will likely find it has better ANC.

If you own the XM4 still, you can also just buy some Sony Hybrid tips and see if they resolve your fit issues and save yourself a ton of money.

I ended up going the Linkbuds S route myself and did not buy the XM4 because I was worried the XM4 would be to dark and bassy for my liking. Having owned some other Sony products I can safely say the Linkbuds S delivered in this area as they are way less bass oriented and dark sounding. For me this is PERFECT, but if you like that big bass and warm/dark sound you might not like the Linkbuds S as much.

Comfort wise the LInkbuds S are the most comfortable TWS I own. I also use a lot of their features. I initially worried about the battery life not being good enough but have not really had issues with them in that regard in day to day use.


----------



## faithguy19

BigZ12 said:


> I had the WF-1000XM4, but I didn't get optimal fit with that either, so I can't really answer your question.
> What I can say is that when using the original L tips, I have very good ANC with the Linkbuds S.
> 
> BUT when using the L I also get this (typical for me) noise especially in the left ear when moving the mouth/chewing and so on...
> ...


Did your Momentums ever come from that deal?


----------



## Trager

Tstorey said:


> Well my Jabra 65 have finally given up the ghost (RIP, you were a faithful Teams servant) so I’ve “relegated” my Jabra 75t’s to my multiple teams calls daily life which has left me with just my M&D MW07 for audio. Whilst I’ve enjoyed the fit better since finding the Sedna max tips I’m still hankering after a new set (and a nice tax rebate has only added to that).
> 
> Current choices;
> 
> ...



The EX sound good, but their ANC is pretty poor and I’ve had pairing issues with mine that are extremely annoying.

MTW3 has excellent ANC but I don’t love their sound. It’s a little too laid back for me, and the app doesn’t give much in the way of correction options. Also, I can’t tell you how many times I’ve opened the case and gotten a low-battery warning. 

In place of the Air Pods Pro, have you considered the Beats Fit Pro instead? Almost the same internals as the APP, with a different form factor. They’re just about as convenient (I do prefer the stems on APP to having to press the IEM itself to actuate skip, etc.) and the sound is better. In fact, I stopped using my B&O EX with my iPhone because I think the Beats Fit Pro sound just as good and they are way more reliable and easy to use.


----------



## Trager

erockg said:


> The Huawei FreeBuds Pro 2 and B&O EX crush the AirPods Pro.  I truly want Apple to kick ass on the next iteration, but I'm not holding my breath.  My APP have been sitting in my tech bag for months and I'm an Apple ecosystem guy.  Both the EX and FBP2 have multi-pairing, soundstages are great, separation and punch is exceptional.  So far, they work flawless on both my iPhone and iPad for wfh zooms, phone calls, music, whatever.  If you're coming from the 65T & 75T, you'll be in heaven imo.


Wait, the EX have multi-pairing? I can’t even get them to pair reliably with my iPhone, let alone with another device.


----------



## erockg

Trager said:


> Wait, the EX have multi-pairing? I can’t even get them to pair reliably with my iPhone, let alone with another device.


Yup, works great for me.


----------



## BigZ12

faithguy19 said:


> Did your Momentums ever come from that deal?


Yep 
What I didn't say the last time, I did buy them in black for NOK 2490,- ($260) when they were released. 
So I will try to sell either for about NOK 1700,-?


----------



## subguy812

erockg said:


> Yup, works great for me.


Me too


----------



## Toom

Anyone tried Spinfit cp-360 tips with the Beoplay Ex? Do they both the earpieces and also work with the case?


----------



## subguy812 (Aug 14, 2022)

Toom said:


> Anyone tried Spinfit cp-360 tips with the Beoplay Ex? Do they both the earpieces and also work with the case?


I have never used them on the EX but I have CP360 tips, XL & L.  I will keep them on the charger to see if they fully charge, but at first listen, the SQ is almost the same as stock. If you look at the tip and feel the silicon, the bore size is similar and the thickness of the silicon is similar as well. I will listen further, a little later today. Charging wise, the magnets grab but they don't sit flush in the tray as they do with the stock tips.

edit: Charge perfectly


----------



## subguy812 (Aug 14, 2022)

Picked up some Linkbuds S, sorry to say they are going back. If set on Sony and the fit works, it is definitely the XM4, for me anyway


----------



## Metsuki

Has anyone here had a taste of the Galaxy Buds2 Pro?


----------



## dweaver

subguy812 said:


> Picked up some Linkbuds S, sorry to say they are going back. If set on Sony and the fit works, it is definitely the XM4, for me anyway


I have not tried the XM4 but suspect I would prefer the Linkbuds S if I did but thats just me. I literally use the Linkbuds S straight out of the box no EQ. I suspect the XM4 would be to bassy and dark and I would be forever fiddling with the EQ. But I can see how that could easily go the other direction for a lot of people in which case the XM4 are a better choice because I don't think the Linkbuds S can be EQ'd enough to come up to the XM4 in regards to bass or the overall warmer sound. Similarly I don't think the XM4 will be able to be tweaked to sound just like the Linkbuds S.

Best advice I can give for XM4 owners struggling with fit is to try some Sony Hybrid tips or maybe Spinfits. It is a much more affordable alternative to selling them for a big loss and buying something else.


----------



## Caipirina

subguy812 said:


> Picked up some Linkbuds S, sorry to say they are going back. If set on Sony and the fit works, it is definitely the XM4, for me anyway


Same here. I find sound and ANC superior on the XM4. As much as I tried to like the Linkbuds S. 
My bias is probably based on the great fit / seal 🦭 I get with the SpinFits cp-100 (never managed to deal with the included hybrid tips) 
On a recent plane trip I felt they are in some cases even better in ANC than the over ear Bose QC 35.


----------



## Toom

subguy812 said:


> I have never used them on the EX but I have CP360 tips, XL & L.  I will keep them on the charger to see if they fully charge, but at first listen, the SQ is almost the same as stock. If you look at the tip and feel the silicon, the bore size is similar and the thickness of the silicon is similar as well. I will listen further, a little later today. Charging wise, the magnets grab but they don't sit flush in the tray as they do with the stock tips.
> 
> edit: Charge perfectly


Thanks for checking!


----------



## Toom

Metsuki said:


> Has anyone here had a taste of the Galaxy Buds2 Pro?


After the craptacular sounding Live and Buds Pro iterations,  I'm done with Samsung for TWS.


----------



## EvilMegaDroid

Guys which should i go for between WF-1000XM4 and noble fokus pro. 

I mostly listen to strong vocal songs, jpop and kpop.


----------



## Metsuki

Toom said:


> After the craptacular sounding Live and Buds Pro iterations,  I'm done with Samsung for TWS.


I quite enjoy the sound of the first gen Galaxy Buds Pro. What did you not like about the sound?


----------



## BooleanBones

EvilMegaDroid said:


> Guys which should i go for between WF-1000XM4 and noble fokus pro.
> 
> I mostly listen to strong vocal songs, jpop and kpop.


Two very different TWS right there. I think you should note what features (if any) outside of sound that are important. For example noise cancelling/ambient, use heavily for calls, etc. From a sound perspective, the Fokus wins that hands down.


----------



## BooleanBones

Caipirina said:


> Same here. I find sound and ANC superior on the XM4. As much as I tried to like the Linkbuds S.
> My bias is probably based on the great fit / seal 🦭 I get with the SpinFits cp-100 (never managed to deal with the included hybrid tips)
> On a recent plane trip I felt they are in some cases even better in ANC than the over ear Bose QC 35.


One of the main reasons I keep mine. I use Final TWS tips on mine and love the fit and seal. Used them on the way to Hawaii and hardly heard a thing.


----------



## cresny

I had to do some work out back today in my city backyard, but was able to enjoy some softer, but appropriate weekend puttering music (Wilco's newest) despite my circular saw and a loud talking party right next door. Yeah, I'm really liking these Huawei FBP2s, so far the best TWS I've heard. If it weren't for the US ban I think they'd be getting some more love, but for those considering a purchase, I think these need to be in the conversation. My only regret is not getting the blue ones.


----------



## EvilMegaDroid

BooleanBones said:


> Two very different TWS right there. I think you should note what features (if any) outside of sound that are important. For example noise cancelling/ambient, use heavily for calls, etc. From a sound perspective, the Fokus wins that hands down.


I was planning to use them for sport, running and home listening.


----------



## BooleanBones

EvilMegaDroid said:


> I was planning to use them for sport, running and home listening.


I would say neither of those you listed will work for the sport/running piece. They will not stay in your ears for that type of activity. Some others that use TWS during athletic activities can chime in with what they like for that.


----------



## gabriely

BooleanBones said:


> I would say neither of those you listed will work for the sport/running piece. They will not stay in your ears for that type of activity. Some others that use TWS during athletic activities can chime in with what they like for that.


Surprisingly, I do hit the gym and run with the Noble FoKus Pros - they do lock in the ear just fine in my experience! 

I've had the Fokus Pros for about 2 weeks now and love it; in terms of sound, it's just absolutely class of its own, though you may wanna drop the midbass a bit using EQ, slight bloat there IMO. It has no ANC, but it isolates noise so well I don't really miss ANC (coming from the Sennheiser MTW2s with Comply tips).

I can't comment about the Sony set because they did not fit me comfortably at all, sorry. 

Another idea is the B&O EX - they give the impression of superb clarity, and it's a very secure fit even though it is very shallow in the ear (which sounds funny, I have no idea how that works out either!), though it doesn't have a proper EQ and you can't customise the touch controls - bit unfortunate considering the price point.


----------



## lycos

gabriely said:


> in terms of sound, it's just absolutely class of its own, though you may wanna drop the midbass a bit using EQ, slight bloat there IMO



Yeah, I agree. Excellent technicality but it's too V-shape. AKG N400 imo has a lot better sound signature. 
I cranked up the mid instead by 1-2 levels.

What's everyone fav tips for Fokus Pro? I'm using stock double-flange which is the best I've tried so far. 
Others (Azla short, Spiraldot++) cannot hold TWS in place for long.


----------



## raymanh

Folks, if you've been struggling with getting a good seal even with foam tips I'd highly recommend these kinds of foam tips:

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/100...00023004837065!sea&curPageLogUid=KORNfXle0WT4

(They're listed under lots of brand names)

I tried lots of more normal foam tips before on my 75t's, but they would either fit my ear well but be too big to fit in the charging case, or fit in the charging case and just not be big enough for my ear. The above tips have a different approach- they're quite short but very bulbous so they kind of stick well just outside of the ear canal. Isolation is excellent (much better than any spintips or foams I've tried before) and they really stay in the ear well. I can tug on them and really feel the seal.

Highly recommended if the more standard tip shape isn't working for you.


----------



## gabriely

lycos said:


> Yeah, I agree. Excellent technicality but it's too V-shape. AKG N400 imo has a lot better sound signature.
> I cranked up the mid instead by 1-2 levels.
> 
> What's everyone fav tips for Fokus Pro? I'm using stock double-flange which is the best I've tried so far.
> Others (Azla short, Spiraldot++) cannot hold TWS in place for long.


I'm just using the double flanges as well since I somehow managed to destroy the single flanges, hahaha

Not sure what other eartips are compatible with the fokus pros, so if anyone knows which ones (particularly, which comply tips are compatible) I could/should look at, I would definitely appreciate it!


----------



## Caipirina

Toom said:


> After the craptacular sounding Live and Buds Pro iterations,  I'm done with Samsung for TWS.


hmmm .. interesting .. back in the day (the Live Beans came out 2 years ago! time flies) I liked them so much, especially for their dynamic sound, that I bought them again, after one side died (and I found out that warranty cover is not global)
I also still enjoy the GB Pro from time to time ... not in heavy rotation, but not in the craptacular arena either ... something must be really rubbing you wrong there soundwise


----------



## productred

lycos said:


> Yeah, I agree. Excellent technicality but it's too V-shape. AKG N400 imo has a lot better sound signature.
> I cranked up the mid instead by 1-2 levels.
> 
> What's everyone fav tips for Fokus Pro? I'm using stock double-flange which is the best I've tried so far.
> Others (Azla short, Spiraldot++) cannot hold TWS in place for long.



The N400 is still among the very best sounding few TWS even today IMO.


----------



## scubaphish

gabriely said:


> I'm just using the double flanges as well since I somehow managed to destroy the single flanges, hahaha
> 
> Not sure what other eartips are compatible with the fokus pros, so if anyone knows which ones (particularly, which comply tips are compatible) I could/should look at, I would definitely appreciate it!


Just switched to double flanges (L, usually west medium in single flange). I dropped the mid-bass slightly and kicked up highs for the high hats.


----------



## BooleanBones

gabriely said:


> I somehow managed to destroy the single flanges, hahaha


You aren't the only one


----------



## C_Lindbergh (Aug 15, 2022)

This still pisses me off, the money isn't really an issue, its the principle, just because I live in the "wrong" EU country I have to pay around 50€ extra without Beyers 60 day refund window. I wouldn't be as pissed if it wasn't for the fact that they offer shipping to countries like Finland, Slovenia, Ireland etc, I could have understood if Beyer only shipped to Austria/Swiz/Germany, but if they can ship to countries all over EU it doesn't make any sense.


----------



## james444

C_Lindbergh said:


> This still pisses me off, the money isn't really an issue, its the principle, just because I live in the "wrong" EU country I have to pay around 50€ extra without Beyers 60 day refund window. I wouldn't be as pissed if it wasn't for the fact that they offer shipping to countries like Finland, Slovenia, Ireland etc, I could have understood if Beyer only shipped to Austria/Swiz/Germany, but if they can ship to countries all over EU it doesn't make any sense.



The possible sense I'm making of this is that all countries they ship to have Euro currency. How about getting a German shipping address and using a forwarder?


----------



## C_Lindbergh

james444 said:


> The possible sense I'm making of this is that all countries they ship to have Euro currency. How about getting a German shipping address and using a forwarder?


Yeah I guess, even tho it would still be annoying and take more time/add shipping cost.


----------



## erockg

I could be wrong but it looks like FiiO redesigned the UTWS5 on newer versions.  Maybe to fix the issues.  They moved the copper connectors where they charge.  Can anyone confirm this?  Also, the logo on the case is flat and smooth, not engraved like the first batch.  Maybe it's always been this way.  I can't remember.


----------



## BooleanBones

erockg said:


> I could be wrong but it looks like FiiO redesigned the UTWS5 on newer versions.  Maybe to fix the issues.  They moved the copper connectors where they charge.  Can anyone confirm this?  Also, the logo on the case is flat and smooth, not engraved like the first batch.  Maybe it's always been this way.  I can't remember.


Mine have the sticker on the lid, but the charging connections are different


----------



## subguy812

So I have really thinned my TWS herd. If anyone has any suggestions I am open to make some more purchases. Preferably any top tiers I may have missed.


----------



## cresny

BooleanBones said:


> Mine have the sticker on the lid, but the charging connections are different


I'm not sure how the new one improves contact, at least in my use case where the bottom jams in pretty snug but the mid-area where they added the pin sometimes gets lifted by the bulk of the IEMs and adapters.


----------



## erockg

BooleanBones said:


> Mine have the sticker on the lid, but the charging connections are different





cresny said:


> I'm not sure how the new one improves contact, at least in my use case where the bottom jams in pretty snug but the mid-area where they added the pin sometimes gets lifted by the bulk of the IEMs and adapters.


Who knows!  Must be a reason, but we'll never know


----------



## BooleanBones

erockg said:


> Who knows!  Must be a reason, but we'll never know


How many licks to the center of a tootsie pop?


----------



## erockg

BooleanBones said:


> How many licks to the center of a tootsie pop?


1,000.  Duh.


----------



## MikkiT

Juturna said:


> I am really looking forward to seeing (and possibly hearing) what the Soundcore Liberty 4 Pro will be like. If they improve the battery on LDAC or include some other hi-res codec that's more battery efficient they will already be fantastic, but if they can improve the stock tuning a bit, make the case and buds smaller and improve the ANC and still keep the price below $200 I feel like they're going to be worthy a mention in the same category as the real heavy-hitters.
> 
> Still feels like people regard Anker/Soundcore as a "not audiophile enough" because the stock tuning is very tailored to your average consumer, and I guess they market themselves a bit as such, but I think they're worthy of being included... Maybe not with Noble Audio and B&O etc, but for sure in the same category as Sennheiser, Technics and I guess Sony for creating great sounding earbuds that are also impressive in features and specs, and not just being "budget friendly bang-for-buck bass boomy earbuds" I know it's been shifting a bit and people here who have tried them are in the know, but I still feel like people rate them lower than they should be.
> I think these sound way better than the Technics AZ60, Sennheiser MTW2s (actually the 3s too, but I've only heard them in passing), better than the Devialet by _far, _and so on.


I’ve been an Anker fan for some time now. Mainly their USB-C chargers, as I am a flight attendant and I really like their compact form factor. I have been using a pair of APP for the last 2 1/2 years but the batteries in the buds and case are done. I didn’t relish forking out £190+ for a new pair, so I decided to try a pair of Soundcores. Initially bought the Liberty Air 2 Pros but they were too big for my ears so they went back to Amazon. I then found a pair of “renewed” Life P3s for £29. Wow.  Blow the APP away.  Mids and highs are just as good, if not a bit better, and the bass…well, Apple should be ashamed. 

I have multiple sets of earphones/headphones (PX, NC700, H6, MH40, HD560s) which are obviously superior, but they don’t lend as well to travel and and I can’t always bring them due to space constraints. For only £29, the Soundcore are one of the best purchases I’ve ever made..


----------



## Devodonaldson

EvilMegaDroid said:


> Guys which should i go for between WF-1000XM4 and noble fokus pro.
> 
> I mostly listen to strong vocal songs, jpop and kpop.


Fokus pro, hands down. I own both. My xm4 have been relegated to workout and sleep duty. I sleep with iems. Fokus pro are the xm4 on another level. Better bass, clearer mids, better treble detail without harshness. Enjoy both. I use spinfit  tws tips on Fokus and Final type E on xm4


----------



## Juturna

Most annoying part about my Soundcore L3P's is the that one earbud doesn't always want to charge, so often I think they're going to be fully charged and then it turns out that the left one has like 10% battery while the right one is at 100%.


----------



## tiagopinto

C_Lindbergh said:


> Yes I did! I can actually buy them now in my country...
> 
> 
> But its very annoying that people who can order directly from Beyer can get them for 209 EUR with the discount code along with 60 days return window.
> ...



That’s what I asked the local rep. “Will you honor the 10% newsletter subscription discount and the brands own return window? Since the brands shipping policy is restraining some countries, those countries honor the brands conditions, right?” I’m waiting for their answer...

Otherwise, I’m with you. I’m not paying a premium over other countries’ clients.


----------



## tiagopinto

C_Lindbergh said:


> This still pisses me off, the money isn't really an issue, its the principle, just because I live in the "wrong" EU country I have to pay around 50€ extra without Beyers 60 day refund window. I wouldn't be as pissed if it wasn't for the fact that they offer shipping to countries like Finland, Slovenia, Ireland etc, I could have understood if Beyer only shipped to Austria/Swiz/Germany, but if they can ship to countries all over EU it doesn't make any sense.



Note that 229€ is the price with 20% VAT. My local distributor gave a quote for 235€ considering the VAT adjustment to 23%.



james444 said:


> The possible sense I'm making of this is that all countries they ship to have Euro currency. How about getting a German shipping address and using a forwarder?



Thanks for your input. Although, wouldn’t this void your warranty and/or the possibility of returning them?


----------



## Caipirina

Devodonaldson said:


> Fokus pro, hands down. I own both. My xm4 have been relegated to workout and sleep duty. I sleep with iems. Fokus pro are the xm4 on another level. Better bass, clearer mids, better treble detail without harshness. Enjoy both. I use spinfit  tws tips on Fokus and Final type E on xm4


Wow! How can you sleep with the XM4? I have tried soooo many TWS for sleeping .. even the tiniest ones (comfobuds Z) have that problem that when I lay on them, they plug up the ear canal and I don't get any sound ... 

After trying so many things, I ended up getting one of those MusiCozy sleep headbands (from warehouse at 11$) and those are fantastic (for the kind of music I am listening to at night, meditation / ambient bling bling stuff)


----------



## subguy812

BooleanBones said:


> One of the main reasons I keep mine. I use Final TWS tips on mine and love the fit and seal. Used them on the way to Hawaii and hardly heard a thing.


I wasn't aware that Final made a TWS tip?


----------



## subguy812 (Aug 16, 2022)

BooleanBones said:


> How many licks to the center of a tootsie pop?


I think the answer was three, at least as the owl did it


----------



## EvilMegaDroid

Devodonaldson said:


> Fokus pro, hands down. I own both. My xm4 have been relegated to workout and sleep duty. I sleep with iems. Fokus pro are the xm4 on another level. Better bass, clearer mids, better treble detail without harshness. Enjoy both. I use spinfit  tws tips on Fokus and Final type E on xm4


How are the fokus pro when it comes to running? Do they fall off.
I kinda like them and ready to buy them but would be a pain to workout with items if the fall off


----------



## BooleanBones

I think the answer was three, at least as the owl did it


subguy812 said:


>


Bingo, I never made it past three


----------



## BooleanBones

subguy812 said:


> I wasn't aware that Final made a TWS tip?


They are hard to find and a bit pricey. I got mine from mtmtaudio in Hong Kong. They are a legit company. 
https://www.mtmtaudio.com/products/...-for-true-wireless-bluetooth-earphone-2-pairs


----------



## erockg

BooleanBones said:


> They are hard to find and a bit pricey. I got mine from mtmtaudio in Hong Kong. They are a legit company.
> https://www.mtmtaudio.com/products/...-for-true-wireless-bluetooth-earphone-2-pairs


Audio46 has them too:  https://audio46.com/products/final-audio-true-wireless-silicon-type-e-eartips?variant=42282157572329


----------



## BooleanBones

erockg said:


> Audio46 has them too:  https://audio46.com/products/final-audio-true-wireless-silicon-type-e-eartips?variant=42282157572329


That is where I would get them for sure. Cheaper and in the US


----------



## james444

tiagopinto said:


> Thanks for your input. Although, wouldn’t this void your warranty and/or the possibility of returning them?



I've been using a German forwarding address for years (provided by LogoiX, however their service is limited to Austria). Never had any problem with warranty or returns.


----------



## Luke Skywalker

OneL0ve said:


> How did I miss this? Whoa.


They’re absolutely incredible.


----------



## Luke Skywalker

BooleanBones said:


> Mine have the sticker on the lid, but the charging connections are different


Ya mine look like those.  They drive everything I have well except the Euclids


----------



## msr13

Ok… my Noble Fokus Pros arrived today. After a very difficult (user error) time opening the box, a near impossible experience putting on the proper sized tips, and then another near impossible experience switching them again to Spin Fits, I’ll admit, I was losing faith.

But… once all set… they paired immediately. The sound was excellent!!! The app with the pre-programmed EQ was excellent. Fit and comfort were very good— with the Spin Fits. And so far there has been no connectivity issues. I was able to traverse the house without any drops. 

One evening… one data point. But so far… Wow!!! 

I made a couple of phone calls. I heard the folks on the other end very well. Almost landline-like. But while they could hear me clearly, it was obvious I was on a headset to them.

Did I mention the sound???? Not at all what I was expecting from TWs.

Anyway… just one night…  but I am happy!


----------



## GranDz

Anyone tried the Noble Fokus H-ANC? How does it compare to the Fokus Pro?


----------



## Luke Skywalker

GranDz said:


> Anyone tried the Noble Fokus H-ANC? How does it compare to the Fokus Pro?


I would love to know that too. I love the FoKus pro and I’ve even thought of getting some Noble IEMs now


----------



## BooleanBones

Luke Skywalker said:


> I would love to know that too. I love the FoKus pro and I’ve even thought of getting some Noble IEMs now


I think @erockg had/has them and posted a couple weeks back. Possibly a few others.


----------



## Luke Skywalker

Ah I should probably give my wallet a break.  I decided to get an iFi xDSD Gryphon to see if it can drive these Euclids better.  I have those puppies hooked up to my old HiBy R6 Pro running a pink noise burn in track.  And this is totally random... I bought a handheld searchlight with a 2.4 km beam that's like 20 feet wide.  Gotta love being a grown up and being able to buy toys I would've done anything to have as a kid


----------



## BooleanBones

Luke Skywalker said:


> Gotta love being a grown up and being able to buy toys I would've done anything to have as a kid


I feel your pain, I have the same issues


----------



## Caipirina

You terrible hype people made me look! All this talk about the Fokus Pro ...  but I am confused, probably some weird copy writing on behalf of amazon JP  .. now, do they have ANC or not? And what are those mystical unique Japanese specs I wonder? 

Initially I thought the price is crazy as I see close to 60K Yen and my head still tells me that's like 600USD .. (but it is 'only' 450USD, plus there are some cheaper sellers / used and we get down to 350 USD)  ... and that's what I paid for the XM4 when they came out, no? So, not super crazy


----------



## gabriely (Aug 17, 2022)

GranDz said:


> Anyone tried the Noble Fokus H-ANC? How does it compare to the Fokus Pro?


I got to try a H-ANC demo unit (next to the Pros) very briefly - definitely more bloat (midbass? no idea) & severe lack of clarity - so I didn't like it very much

Perhaps its something that can be resolved with EQ? I've seen some nice comments about the H-ANCs, someone said it was 85% of the way to the Pros but in my (albeit very brief) experience I have to respectfully disagree

Also @Caipirina the FoKus Pros don't have ANC - that said their passive noise isolation is excellent. I came over from the MTW2s with Comply tips and I don't miss ANC at all. Not sure about the Japan unique spec though unfortunately!


----------



## scubaphish

msr13 said:


> Ok… my Noble Fokus Pros arrived today. After a very difficult (user error) time opening the box, a near impossible experience putting on the proper sized tips, and then another near impossible experience switching them again to Spin Fits, I’ll admit, I was losing faith.
> 
> But… once all set… they paired immediately. The sound was excellent!!! The app with the pre-programmed EQ was excellent. Fit and comfort were very good— with the Spin Fits. And so far there has been no connectivity issues. I was able to traverse the house without any drops.
> 
> ...


I’m glad you brought up phone calls. I think I may have bad microphone(s). Whenever I try to have a conversation on them I’m always having to repeat myself multiple times, then end up switching to handset or speaker because they just can’t understand me. And it’s not just a couple of calls here and there, it’s every single call I’m on. Good to know that while they may not be great, they should be better than what I’m getting out of them.


----------



## erockg

This is insane.  These were supposed to launch at $649 two years ago.  

https://www.engadget.com/klipsch-t10-bespoke-wireless-earbuds-161128488.html?src=rss

https://t10bespoke.com


----------



## BooleanBones

erockg said:


> This is insane.  These were supposed to launch at $649 two years ago.
> 
> https://www.engadget.com/klipsch-t10-bespoke-wireless-earbuds-161128488.html?src=rss
> 
> https://t10bespoke.com


Just a quick run through and I was up to 3,300$


----------



## erockg

BooleanBones said:


> Just a quick run through and I was up to 3,300$


Nuts!  Not sure what Klipsch and UE are thinking with their new additions.  One is waaaaay overpriced and the other reasonable but with geriatric specs.


----------



## erockg

Luke Skywalker said:


> I would love to know that too. I love the FoKus pro and I’ve even thought of getting some Noble IEMs now





BooleanBones said:


> I think @erockg had/has them and posted a couple weeks back. Possibly a few others.


I use them both.  Pro sound exceptionally better.  But the fit on the H-ANC is phenomenal imo.  Don't get me wrong, sound isn't bad on the H-ANC.  It's great.  EQ customization is exactly like the Pro.  Unless you're a Noble lover, and don't need transparency and ANC, I'd stick with the Pro.  If you have a wild hair like many of us here, you won't hate the H-ANC and they're a nice pair to add to a collection.


----------



## msr13

scubaphish said:


> I’m glad you brought up phone calls. I think I may have bad microphone(s). Whenever I try to have a conversation on them I’m always having to repeat myself multiple times, then end up switching to handset or speaker because they just can’t understand me. And it’s not just a couple of calls here and there, it’s every single call I’m on. Good to know that while they may not be great, they should be better than what I’m getting out of them.


Sorry you’re having that experience. Hopefully Noble will be able to help you figure it out.


----------



## nariza7

Anyone know how the beoplay ex would compare to the noble audio fokus pro?


----------



## jant71 (Aug 17, 2022)

erockg said:


> Nuts!  Not sure what Klipsch and UE are thinking with their new additions.  One is waaaaay overpriced and the other reasonable but with geriatric specs.


Those Jabra Enhance Plus looking better vs. the Klipsch. Good news that they will be able to be straight purchased soon enough. The regulations are changing this fall so they should be "over the counter" and no doctor involved with the purchase of them. Still eight bills for the Jabra though.


----------



## erockg

jant71 said:


> Those Jabra Enhance Plus looking better vs. the Klipsch. Good news that they will be able to be straight purchased soon enough. The regulations are changing this fall so they should be "over the counter" and no doctor involved with the purchase of them. Still eight bills for the Jabra though.


Oh, I didn't even put two and two together when I read that hearing aid news.  Jabra always has sales though.  Not sure how they sound for music though.


----------



## erockg

nariza7 said:


> Anyone know how the beoplay ex would compare to the noble audio fokus pro?


Fokus pro if all you want is the best sound.  EX if you want great sound, great phone calls, QI charging, okay ANC and Transparency mode.  The Fokus Pro is no frills, just better sound.  A lot of us have both buds.


----------



## subguy812

erockg said:


> Fokus pro if all you want is the best sound.  EX if you want great sound, great phone calls, QI charging, okay ANC and Transparency mode.  The Fokus Pro is no frills, just better sound.  A lot of us have both buds.


EX-multi point & IP57 as well


----------



## C_Lindbergh

erockg said:


> This is insane.  These were supposed to launch at $649 two years ago.
> 
> https://www.engadget.com/klipsch-t10-bespoke-wireless-earbuds-161128488.html?src=rss
> 
> https://t10bespoke.com


Holy... I doubt they'll sell many... TWS gets dated way faster than ordinary IEMs.


----------



## Tommy C

BooleanBones said:


> Just a quick run through and I was up to 3,300$


I’m a humble guy. Was able to put a nice package together for _only_ $2800.


----------



## BooleanBones

Tommy C said:


> I’m a humble guy. Was able to put a nice package together for _only_ $2800.


 I was try my best to be stingy as, but I guess it wasn't enough. Everything I clicked on tacked on another 250 or 500$.


----------



## Luke Skywalker

C_Lindbergh said:


> Holy... I doubt they'll sell many... TWS gets dated way faster than ordinary IEMs.


Ya but they’re made from…. 
Sustainable Natural Luxury Materials​Heehee


----------



## productred

EvilMegaDroid said:


> Guys which should i go for between WF-1000XM4 and noble fokus pro.
> 
> I mostly listen to strong vocal songs, jpop and kpop.



Strong vocal songs, jpop especially, definitely stay away from the fokus pro. Kpop can work on those but not vocal oriented music.

Look at my sig, I have the fokus pro but very, very much prefer my Victor woodies and my Final X EVA over the fokus pro for any vocal oriented or mid focus music. I do listen to jpop about 80-90% of my music time.


----------



## stacey

subguy812 said:


> EX-multi point & *IP57* as well



This feature by itself makes the EX the best TWS for any athletic endeavors. Not having to worry about water or sweat damage is worth it’s shortcomings IMO.


----------



## Tommy C

productred said:


> Strong vocal songs, jpop especially, definitely stay away from the fokus pro. Kpop can work on those but not vocal oriented music.
> 
> Look at my sig, I have the fokus pro but very, very much prefer my Victor woodies and my Final X EVA over the fokus pro for any vocal oriented or mid focus music. I do listen to jpop about 80-90% of my music time.



First time seeing someone who owns the Fender Tour TWS. Are they any good? 
I often see them on sale locally.


----------



## productred

Tommy C said:


> First time seeing someone who owns the Fender Tour TWS. Are they any good?
> I often see them on sale locally.



No good at all, it has nothing to do with Fender really, just a licensed product like Marshall etc. Looks good wears comfy but sound pretty horrible, all big fat bass and not much else.


----------



## Tommy C

productred said:


> No good at all, it has nothing to do with Fender really, just a licensed product like Marshall etc. Looks good wears comfy but sound pretty horrible, all big fat bass and not much else.


Yikes. Thanks for letting us know!


----------



## EvilMegaDroid (Aug 18, 2022)

productred said:


> Strong vocal songs, jpop especially, definitely stay away from the fokus pro. Kpop can work on those but not vocal oriented music.
> 
> Look at my sig, I have the fokus pro but very, very much prefer my Victor woodies and my Final X EVA over the fokus pro for any vocal oriented or mid focus music. I do listen to jpop about 80-90% of my music time.


I thought the fokus pro would have been good since it had mid-focus. I also listen to English ones from time to time for example Eva max or sia. I linked some examples below.
Would the *Victor HA-FX1000t or Final Audio X Evangelion EVATW01 *be better in this case? Also where did you get the *Victor HA-FX1000t* since i can find them only on japan and would be tricky to ship them out.

When I asked a few months ago in forum.hifiguides.com a few user suggested I should go for moondrop variations or Tanchjim Oxygen but these are not tws 





And most Hiroyuki Sawano  songs (My favorite composer)


----------



## Devodonaldson

Caipirina said:


> Wow! How can you sleep with the XM4? I have tried soooo many TWS for sleeping .. even the tiniest ones (comfobuds Z) have that problem that when I lay on them, they plug up the ear canal and I don't get any sound ...
> 
> After trying so many things, I ended up getting one of those MusiCozy sleep headbands (from warehouse at 11$) and those are fantastic (for the kind of music I am listening to at night, meditation / ambient bling bling stuff)


Ah...it's easy for me. I sleep like I'm in a coffin. I'm on my back hands on my lap or by my side. Makes wearing gear while sleeping super easy 😁


----------



## dmphile

Hey - I'm curious to see if the TWS pros know anything about the possibility of these BT adapters working on DAPs? Will they work? I ask because the N3Pro's BT is completely useless, but it's one of the features I value since I use TWS for my daily commute. Would the USB C port recognize it and possibly offer some improved BT connectivity?








https://ca.creative.com/p/accessories/creative-bt-w4


----------



## Tommy C

dmphile said:


> Hey - I'm curious to see if the TWS pros know anything about the possibility of these BT adapters working on DAPs? Will they work? I ask because the N3Pro's BT is completely useless, but it's one of the features I value since I use TWS for my daily commute. Would the USB C port recognize it and possibly offer some improved BT connectivity?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Unfortunately I think the best answer is “possibly”.
The Jabra dongle set worked great for me but some other dongles, it’s kind of iffy with other TWS.
You want to make sure they have good return policy when placing the order 😎


----------



## Pansbjorne

So my N400NC's just died. Anyone have recommendations for an upgrade?


----------



## smuh

dmphile said:


> Hey - I'm curious to see if the TWS pros know anything about the possibility of these BT adapters working on DAPs? Will they work? I ask because the N3Pro's BT is completely useless, but it's one of the features I value since I use TWS for my daily commute. Would the USB C port recognize it and possibly offer some improved BT connectivity?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I am using the BT-W3 on my Samsung S21 and it works. Should receive a dongle that supports APTX adaptive tomorrow and will give it a shot with some of my non LDAC cans and tws...


----------



## dmphile

smuh said:


> I am using the BT-W3 on my Samsung S21 and it works. Should receive a dongle that supports APTX adaptive tomorrow and will give it a shot with some of my non LDAC cans and tws...



The BT W4 just arrived and it works on my N3Pro! Strangely, I can't use my play/pause and skip/previous track controls on my TWS or UTWS5 when it's connected. But I can still control ambient mode and volume oddly...


----------



## productred (Aug 18, 2022)

EvilMegaDroid said:


> I thought the fokus pro would have been good since it had mid-focus. I also listen to English ones from time to time for example Eva max or sia. I linked some examples below.
> Would the *Victor HA-FX1000t or Final Audio X Evangelion EVATW01 *be better in this case? Also where did you get the *Victor HA-FX1000t* since i can find them only on japan and would be tricky to ship them out.
> 
> When I asked a few months ago in forum.hifiguides.com a few user suggested I should go for moondrop variations or Tanchjim Oxygen but these are not tws
> ...




The Victor and EVA plays some of these way better than the fokus pro. I listen to lots of Sawano as well. For the kpop there, I think the EVA and the fokus suits more than the Victor due to their bigger and deeper bass rumble but Victor tends to highlight the vocals more, if that's what you are after.

Gotta say I never consider fokus pro to be mid-focus - quite the opposite the mids are too scooped out for my liking, to the effect that much of the vocal or instrument timber cannot be accurately presented. On the other hand, the Victors is decidedly mid-focus while the final/EVA is somehow the most balanced of the bunch. I had sung praises on my Victor woodies before but here I wanna give some credit also to the final/EVA, they are surprisingly good not just for a anime fans oriented product but also in general as a TWS released 2 years ago. Still one of the best sounding TWS up to today in my books.


----------



## erockg

productred said:


> The Victor and EVA plays some of these way better than the fokus pro. I listen to lots of Sawano as well. For the kpop there, I think the EVA and the fokus suits more than the Victor due to their bigger and deeper bass rumble but Victor tends to highlight the vocals more, if that's what you are after.
> 
> Gotta say I never consider fokus pro to be mid-focus - quite the opposite the mids are too scooped out for my liking, to the effect that much of the vocal or instrument timber cannot be accurately presented. On the other hand, the Victors is decidedly mid-focus while the final/EVA is somehow the most balanced of the bunch.


How is the app and the fit for the Victor?  I've heard bad things way back in this chain.  Thoughts?  I'm a _huge_ fan of the Fokus (as are a bunch of other folks on this chain) and I listen to many different genres, not K-Pop though.  Never had an issue, nor have I been disappointed thus far.  I EQ them accordingly, which isn't much.


----------



## tiagopinto (Aug 19, 2022)

erockg said:


> This is insane.  These were supposed to launch at $649 two years ago.
> 
> https://www.engadget.com/klipsch-t10-bespoke-wireless-earbuds-161128488.html?src=rss
> 
> https://t10bespoke.com



Looking at the astronomical rates you got, I went in just for kicks. They look like a piece of jewelry... and they are marketed as that. Too much bling bling for my taste. And the sound just can’t be up to par. Talk about diminishing returns. Anyway, I configured a pair for 3800$.

Ridiculous, haha. I’d upgrade my TWS (240€ for the Free Byrd), my DAC (600€ for the Mojo2 or Gryphon), my IEMs (400€ for the Vulkans + 700$ for the Advar), get a BT adapter (200$ for a Shure TW2)... going crazy here but I’d still save 1800$ (Monarch Mk2 for 1.000$?) No way the Klipsch t10 bespoke would match this. They are bespoke though.

It’s like: do you want a Bugatti Divo for 6 million or a Porsche 911 GT2 + a Land Rover Defender X + a Triumph Bonneville Bobber Black... and keep 5 million? Not a fair comparison, I know (for Bugatti, haha). But to each his own. I prefer augmenting returns.


----------



## Caipirina

Devodonaldson said:


> Ah...it's easy for me. I sleep like I'm in a coffin. I'm on my back hands on my lap or by my side. Makes wearing gear while sleeping super easy 😁


That;s an oddly specific description


----------



## Caipirina

Semi-related question, since I know a lot of people here use Amazon and then return ... 

Has anyone here had the fun occurrence that Amazon pre-refunds you the money, you can see from the tracking number that they have received it, you think all is well, then 2 weeks in they say they wait for the merch or else (we take the money back) ... after some chats with customer service it turns out, or so they claim, that they received an EMPTY BOX!  .. now, this makes me think twice now about 'ordering for likely return' and maybe that's exactly the message amazon is trying to send ...  I googled around and there are ppl who lost quite some money on that and how do you prove that you did not send an empty box?


----------



## xSDMx

Caipirina said:


> Semi-related question, since I know a lot of people here use Amazon and then return ...
> 
> Has anyone here had the fun occurrence that Amazon pre-refunds you the money, you can see from the tracking number that they have received it, you think all is well, then 2 weeks in they say they wait for the merch or else (we take the money back) ... after some chats with customer service it turns out, or so they claim, that they received an EMPTY BOX!  .. now, this makes me think twice now about 'ordering for likely return' and maybe that's exactly the message amazon is trying to send ...  I googled around and there are ppl who lost quite some money on that and how do you prove that you did not send an empty box?


This is my nightmare. Was the item sold and shipped by Amazon.com, shipped by Amazon but sold by <insert company> (this is FBA), or entirely sold and shipped by a third party through Amazon? I think the first two cases they don't do much return inspection besides special "red tag" high value or high return items. But for the third case, you're shipping back to the third party seller and not an Amazon warehouse, so they can do whatever they want.


----------



## Tommy C

Caipirina said:


> Semi-related question, since I know a lot of people here use Amazon and then return ...
> 
> Has anyone here had the fun occurrence that Amazon pre-refunds you the money, you can see from the tracking number that they have received it, you think all is well, then 2 weeks in they say they wait for the merch or else (we take the money back) ... after some chats with customer service it turns out, or so they claim, that they received an EMPTY BOX!  .. now, this makes me think twice now about 'ordering for likely return' and maybe that's exactly the message amazon is trying to send ...  I googled around and there are ppl who lost quite some money on that and how do you prove that you did not send an empty box?


Luckily this never happened to me but I always take pictures of the packaged item before returning expensive merchandises.
One time I sold an and shipped the item and had my doubts so I recorded the whole thing at the post office, basically me boxing the item, putting the labels on the box and shipping it.
Might be overkill for some but better safe than sorry.


----------



## raymanh

Has anyone got the Buds 2 Pro yet?


----------



## dj24

The mention of the Jabra dongle on the last page reminded of a question I've been meaning to ask:

Does windows 11 eliminate the need for it anymore?  In other words does it faithfully interchange calls with music and vice versa without losing SQ or do you still have to choose one or the other for optimum sound?  If it has it might be time to upgrade my Win 10 to Win 11 as my current hardware is capable of it.

Edit:  Here's a thread that explains a bit more on Windows limitation regarding this.


----------



## Caipirina

xSDMx said:


> This is my nightmare. Was the item sold and shipped by Amazon.com, shipped by Amazon but sold by <insert company> (this is FBA), or entirely sold and shipped by a third party through Amazon? I think the first two cases they don't do much return inspection besides special "red tag" high value or high return items. But for the third case, you're shipping back to the third party seller and not an Amazon warehouse, so they can do whatever they want.


it was amazon / amazon and I got 'lucky' and we are talking about 30€ worth of UA undies    I decided to not sweat it anymore .. lesson learned ... just though that I had also returned higher price gear like the MTW3, LinkbudsS  ...   one online story has lost a 1300€ phone that way ... nightmare ...


----------



## james444

*JBL Tune Flex* are in the house. These are supposed to be worn either like open earbuds or sealing IEMs, depending on tips used.







Well, for me the second option doesn't really work, since the nozzles aren't long enough to provide a secure seal. It may work for some, depending on your ear anatomy, but in general I'd say, don't count on the IEM option. If seal is important, I'd think that *real* IEMs have a clear advantage over these.

But on the bright side, these are some of the best, if not the best open earbud style TWS I've come across. One can use the different sized tips to fit them very close to the ear canal opening (while still not sealing), thus taking advantage of the proximity effect for utterly impressive bass. I don't think I've ever heard comparable sub-bass from an open, non-sealing bud before.

On top of that, the JBL app offers a nifty customizable in-device EQ, so you can tune these babies to your liking.






There's ANC too, but needless to say, in open earbud mode its effect is rather homeopathic. However, these have a big and bold sound, reminiscent of larger phones, with very nice extension, detail resolution and soundstage. So there's plenty to like about them, even if ANC is not their strong point.









TL;DR: Worn as open earbuds, these are highly enjoyable and keepers in my book. But for sealing IEMs, I'd rather look elsewhere.


----------



## SoundChoice

Hi, I haven't posted in a while, but have kept up on reading. Thank you all for your many contributions, I enjoy reading you. I've been quietly content with my Jabra Elite 85t and Technics EAH-AZ60. I'm with @Canabuc (our tastes seem similar, brother, but never did pull the trigger on the Huawei) that the AZ60 ticks all the boxes.  I didn't really _need_ an upgrade for listening to ambient and rock while using for phone calls at the office, but... I read all the great feedback and bought the Beyerdynamic Free Byrd from Amazon. Many find them flawless, but I'm sorry that my experience with Free Byrd is mixed.

_Free Byrd pros_: solid case, feels like a tank but still pocketable; personalization of sound in the app; good battery life; huge touch area on the buds; ANC is pretty good (not Sony/Bose good, but still nice); big case can accommodate other tips; strong BT connection doesn't drop; you can hear your own voice a little bit on phone calls (somewhat like the Jabra), which is a major plus for my use;  and of course, the sound is clear and detailed, can bring the bass without being boomy. For what it's worth, I'm ok with a V-signature, being, if I can confess this publicly, Hi, I'm a basshead, recommend me a good TWS pls lol

_Free Byrd cons:_ limited EQ presets, and they warn of distortion if you add EQ after you personalize; you can't customize the touch patterns, and I probably stop play about 25% of the time I'm trying to adjust volume up/down; no multipoint but a feature that releases old device connection if you connect with new one, nice but still requires connecting if you, say, want to answer your phone while playing music from your PC; 

The biggest FreeByrd con, though, to me and for my larger ears, is the fit. The issue is the pressure on my inner tragus after maybe 10 minutes. I always know I'm wearing them, the constant pressure turns to pain after about 30 minutes.  I know others have said the fit has been easy with the 8 tips they provide (XL fits me, but L silicon and foams is too small) , and like you all, I have a plethora of tips from Spinfit to Auvia to NewBee to Comply to JVC, etc. If I go too big and get a seal, I'm aware of them and the pressure. If I go too small to ease the pressure, there's no bass. The Spinfit CP360 XL seals, but even that hurts after a while, the CP360 L doesn't seal. I think part of the issue is the shape of the TWS itself: it doesn't taper like say, the AZ60 but the Free Byrd is instead is more a stubby cylindrical half-cork and then a relatively short nozzle. No one else has written about this, so it's just my anatomy I guess (yay for me!), but I continue to tip-roll from my collection of hundreds to see if I can find the slipper which unlocks the Cinderella fit.

I suppose eventually I may have to try to return the FreeByrds and try to find out how stingy their return policy is. As much as I'd like these to work out. I'm open for suggestions on how to make these fit given my unique challenge. Also, if you're up to it given what you know about my use and tastes, please recommend me options for my next TWS purchase. On my radar screen is MTW3, B&O Beoplay EX, L3P, and Linkbuds S, but maybe there's something I missed.

Thanks for reading!


----------



## subguy812 (Aug 20, 2022)

SoundChoice said:


> Hi, I haven't posted in a while, but have kept up on reading. Thank you all for your many contributions, I enjoy reading you. I've been quietly content with my Jabra Elite 85t and Technics EAH-AZ60. I'm with @Canabuc (our tastes seem similar, brother, but never did pull the trigger on the Huawei) that the AZ60 ticks all the boxes.  I didn't really _need_ an upgrade for listening to ambient and rock while using for phone calls at the office, but... I read all the great feedback and bought the Beyerdynamic Free Byrd from Amazon. Many find them flawless, but I'm sorry that my experience with Free Byrd is mixed.
> 
> _Free Byrd pros_: solid case, feels like a tank but still pocketable; personalization of sound in the app; good battery life; huge touch area on the buds; ANC is pretty good (not Sony/Bose good, but still nice); big case can accommodate other tips; strong BT connection doesn't drop; you can hear your own voice a little bit on phone calls (somewhat like the Jabra), which is a major plus for my use;  and of course, the sound is clear and detailed, can bring the bass without being boomy. For what it's worth, I'm ok with a V-signature, being, if I can confess this publicly, Hi, I'm a basshead, recommend me a good TWS pls lol
> 
> ...


My Free Byrds were returned. I think with personalization the sq is good, but the EX is more to my likes, subjectively. If I put my reviewer hat on, I would clearly give the nod to the EX in the sound quality department. Even though personalization sound is good, I found myself switching to stock sound more often than not.

The Linkbuds were also returned, most definitely prefer the XM4. It is one of the first time I have ever EQ'ed, anything. I found some settings that gel with me and ANC is top notch, Spinfit CP360 works well, hate the stock tips.

MTW3 is the IEM that sent me spiraling down the top tier TWS rabbit hole. I only ever bought Sennheiser TWS. Loved the OG and the 2's and then the MTW3 has a short nozzle, and I could not get a good seal.

Liked the Google buds, most recent, but seal wouldn't work.

Just patiently awaiting the next big top tier release, but I had my sites on the new LG's, heard mixed things and have had the Huwaei in my cart a couple of times and never pulled the trigger.


----------



## Tstorey

B&O EX ordered. Thanks for all the input.


----------



## Sam L

james444 said:


> *JBL Tune Flex* are in the house. These are supposed to be worn either like open earbuds or sealing IEMs, depending on tips used.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


thank you for sharing your experience. I've been eyeing those when they were announced and was wondering if anyone would be picking one up. They still aren't available in my area.

I wonder when the flex is in open ear mode if it sounds similar to the tune 225?


----------



## helmutcheese (Aug 20, 2022)

dj24 said:


> The mention of the Jabra dongle on the last page reminded of a question I've been meaning to ask:
> 
> Does windows 11 eliminate the need for it anymore?  In other words does it faithfully interchange calls with music and vice versa without losing SQ or do you still have to choose one or the other for optimum sound?  If it has it might be time to upgrade my Win 10 to Win 11 as my current hardware is capable of it.
> 
> Edit:  Here's a thread that explains a bit more on Windows limitation regarding this.


Not yet even on Windows 11 DEV still set MIC to Walkie Talkie/Radio Quality or such, that is said to be changing "soon".

LE Audio (inc LC3): https://www.theverge.com/2022/7/12/...ed-low-power-high-quality-wireless-headphones

Also, aptX Lossless which I believe some buds will also do on the MIC side: https://www.theverge.com/2021/9/1/22652655/qualcomm-aptx-lossless-announced-snapdragon-sound


----------



## TrueLight

Hi all, any eartip recommend for AZ60 ?  Thanks


----------



## meatroll (Oct 26, 2022)

Any one try G72 yet


----------



## moufouchou

Hi 
Just my humble opinion and didnt read the whole topic sorry
I had the fiio utws5 on my iPhone 11 and westone w50 for 6 monthes and recently I just come back to wire 
The sound wasnt bad but it improved the downsides or my iem, making the sound feeling boringly slow warm bassy muddy and in a Word, compressed
With the wire and a dragonfly cobalt, my w50 came back to life with dynamic, details, air, treble, faster bass etc
Maybe the codecs are too old on the phone, but définitely not a good pairing


----------



## Luke Skywalker

SoundChoice said:


> Hi, I haven't posted in a while, but have kept up on reading. Thank you all for your many contributions, I enjoy reading you. I've been quietly content with my Jabra Elite 85t and Technics EAH-AZ60. I'm with @Canabuc (our tastes seem similar, brother, but never did pull the trigger on the Huawei) that the AZ60 ticks all the boxes.  I didn't really _need_ an upgrade for listening to ambient and rock while using for phone calls at the office, but... I read all the great feedback and bought the Beyerdynamic Free Byrd from Amazon. Many find them flawless, but I'm sorry that my experience with Free Byrd is mixed.
> 
> _Free Byrd pros_: solid case, feels like a tank but still pocketable; personalization of sound in the app; good battery life; huge touch area on the buds; ANC is pretty good (not Sony/Bose good, but still nice); big case can accommodate other tips; strong BT connection doesn't drop; you can hear your own voice a little bit on phone calls (somewhat like the Jabra), which is a major plus for my use;  and of course, the sound is clear and detailed, can bring the bass without being boomy. For what it's worth, I'm ok with a V-signature, being, if I can confess this publicly, Hi, I'm a basshead, recommend me a good TWS pls lol
> 
> ...


Noble FoKus Pro my friend


----------



## jant71

KZ getting there???


----------



## subguy812

jant71 said:


> KZ getting there???



$69.00 Chi-Fi stuff...maybe they are getting there. Not sure what that means


----------



## jant71

subguy812 said:


> $69.00 Chi-Fi stuff...maybe they are getting there. Not sure what that means


Hey, I didn't title this thread.  I'm just going along with it. 

Are we there yet? Is KZ there yet? "There" is certainly subjective and based on many different needs. One persons "there" is another persons still not good enough.


----------



## Luke Skywalker

Up to 47,298 posts on this thread. I’ll be waiting like a tiger to pounce when it’s 49,999…


----------



## Not so fat head

I picked up Jabra Elite 85T's and I like them..  On sale for $139.00 at Best Buy.
Software app is integrated nicely with the hardware..
Sound is on par with my other TWS, Apple Pro, B&W P7, M&D 07, 1000x3, Sennheiser M2.  These devices just don't (blow each other away), as I've said before.  I tend to EQ all my wireless phones, there is a specific sound signature I like.  I'll also adjust it differently per the type of music I'm listening to.  To me, the effort put in, is worth the trouble..
For just popping them in on the run, can't beat AAP's, but in critical listening, will rarely reach for them.


----------



## JB6789

Aevum said:


> the AZ10 is low latency gaming oriented, it dosnt have APTX or APTX Adaptive
> 
> i would stick to the AZ09 pro


About the AZ10, agreed.

The AZ09 Pro does offer a low latency mode (AptX-LL), called the HIGH performance mode. Three successive clicks to the RIGHT earhook button.  
For the POWER mode that I often use with my Shuoer S12's to bring out the base and make these planars shine...three successive clicks to the LEFT earhook button.


----------



## JB6789

Aevum said:


> the thing is that theres also the CCA BTX which seems to be very similar to the AZ09 pro, both having the QCC3040 chip,
> 
> But the CCA appears to be aptx only while the AZ 09 pro is APTX adaptive.
> 
> BTW. how is the KZ cable connector called and what brands support it apart from KZ and CCA ?


If the KZ AZ09 Pro were AptX Adaptive, it would advertise this trademark under a license.  It is AptX/LL.  It is not AptX Adaptive nor AptXHD. It does advertise "High Definition" AptX...but this is marketing 101. Play of words.  Easy to verify on my BTA30Pro in TX mode.  If it were AptXHD, the indicator light would glow YELLOW.  However, it glows PURPLE...meaning AptX.
That being said, I use my modded AZ09 Pro's (C to B pin mod) with my S12's most every day and have had excellent results across the board for the better part of 2022.
For the LL mode...three successive clicks to the RIGHT earhook button
For Power mode...three successive clicks to the LEFT earhook button.  This mode I often use with the S12 to bring out the bass in this planar. Power mode does reduce the battery life by 15%...but this is from what is already ample battery life on the earhook (~8 hrs).


----------



## Caipirina

They called it WHAT?


----------



## PixelSquish

Went on a trip recently and brought both the MTW3 and the AZ60 of which I love both. 

But I did a lot of going back and forth between them like 30 min with one pair and then 20 min with the other.

Without a doubt I prefer the MTW3 sound a bit more. It's noticeable. I love the AZ60's so it's not a bad thing. But the Senn sound is just a bit more robust and dynamic.

The MTW3 case is way too big though. AZ60 battery life is better, even though I can use AptX with my P6P phone now.


----------



## Toom

PixelSquish said:


> Went on a trip recently and brought both the MTW3 and the AZ60 of which I love both.
> 
> But I did a lot of going back and forth between them like 30 min with one pair and then 20 min with the other.
> 
> ...


MTW3 case way too big? Are you a hobbit or something?


----------



## Phaethon (Aug 21, 2022)

Tinbuds 3 arrived today. Funky swivel top case that doesn’t feel like it will last as long as the buds themselves. I’m really digging the sound. The highs are crystal sparkly but can get sibilant on older recordings. The mids are nicely forward and are where the instrument placement and separation took my breath away. The bass is full and precise with no bloat. The separation at the bottom is so clear that you can hear the bass and the drums lock into each other to become a rhythm section. Might turn off some bass heads but I’m one and the precision is awesome. Stock tips are perfect for me. The buds are IEM gorgeous. The packaging is Tin’s usual spare presentation but just like their IEMs these are breathtaking value.


----------



## productred

erockg said:


> How is the app and the fit for the Victor?  I've heard bad things way back in this chain.  Thoughts?  I'm a _huge_ fan of the Fokus (as are a bunch of other folks on this chain) and I listen to many different genres, not K-Pop though.  Never had an issue, nor have I been disappointed thus far.  I EQ them accordingly, which isn't much.



There's no app for the Victor but the touch controls work perfectly even without. I never see the point of having EQ in the app if the buds are well tuned, so I don't miss any in-app EQ on the Victor.

For fit the Fokus pro handily wins, the Victor is heavier and u'd need some time to try out different ips and adapt, Fokus is a natural CIEM-like fit even with its stock tips.

Great thing you are enjoying the Fokus pro, I'm also happy to keep them in my rotation for a change sometimes when I need bigger bass.


----------



## chortya

I am really impressed by Samsung Buds2 Pro. Good ANC, completely 0 background noise and great sound quality. The only downside is that the highest quality codex is only available for Galaxy phones.

I have also used Beyerdynamic Free Byrd. Impressive sound quality and battery life. They are a bit to big and have audible background noise.


----------



## Sam L

chortya said:


> I am really impressed by Samsung Buds2 Pro. Good ANC, completely 0 background noise and great sound quality. The only downside is that the highest quality codex is only available for Galaxy phones.
> 
> I have also used Beyerdynamic Free Byrd. Impressive sound quality and battery life. They are a bit to big and have audible background noise.


how did you get the buds 2 pro? I thought official release isn't until later?


----------



## chortya

Just pre-ordered and received them last week (I am in Germany). I guess Samsung was overefficient this time.


----------



## Phaethon (Aug 22, 2022)

I’ve been A/B ing the Tinbuds 3 overnight. They make everything else sound muddy to me in comparison. This includes my Fokus Pro, Free Byrds, MTW3, and xm4s. This is IEM precision, separation, imaging. I can hear fingers pluck and stop the bass strings - leaving no doubt that there is a human being physically playing it. They reveal production with beauty or warts. There’s no hiding. Wow. $90. Just wow. But I don’t know how to carry or protect that stupid case.


----------



## Not so fat head

Phaethon said:


> I’ve been A/B ing the Tinbuds 3 overnight. They make everything else sound muddy to me in comparison. This includes my Fokus Pro, Free Byrds, MTW3, and xm4s. This is IEM precision, separation, imaging. I can hear fingers pluck and stop the bass strings - leaving no doubt that there is a human being physically playing it. They reveal production with beauty or warts. There’s no hiding. Wow. $90. Just wow. But I don’t know how to carry or protect that stupid case.


The sound you're describing, I hear on my Sennheiser, Sony's, Apple AAP, Bose QC's/SoundSports/Soundsports Free's, M&D's, B&W's..and others...
There is no panacea here..


----------



## Luke Skywalker

Oh yeah I love that too. I can usually hear breathing with female vocals and people turning the sheet music pages on “Yamina - Love Letters”


----------



## Not so fat head

Phaethon said:


> I’ve been A/B ing the Tinbuds 3 overnight. They make everything else sound muddy to me in comparison. This includes my Fokus Pro, Free Byrds, MTW3, and xm4s. This is IEM precision, separation, imaging. I can hear fingers pluck and stop the bass strings - leaving no doubt that there is a human being physically playing it. They reveal production with beauty or warts. There’s no hiding. Wow. $90. Just wow. But I don’t know how to carry or protect that stupid case.


Don't take me wrong, I'm happy you found some TWS you really like for $90.
Sounds like a great deal..,


----------



## Sam L

Not so fat head said:


> The sound you're describing, I hear on my Sennheiser, Sony's, Apple AAP, Bose QC's/SoundSports/Soundsports Free's, M&D's, B&W's..and others...
> There is no panacea here..



Yeah, sadly many/most tws will have some noise if you listen really carefully. I've just always accepted that for TWS earphones.


----------



## Luke Skywalker

Phaethon said:


> I’ve been A/B ing the Tinbuds 3 overnight. They make everything else sound muddy to me in comparison. This includes my Fokus Pro, Free Byrds, MTW3, and xm4s. This is IEM precision, separation, imaging. I can hear fingers pluck and stop the bass strings - leaving no doubt that there is a human being physically playing it. They reveal production with beauty or warts. There’s no hiding. Wow. $90. Just wow. But I don’t know how to carry or protect that stupid case.


I put  a tactical rubber band around the earbud cases and then put them in a soft case. I’m very accident prone


----------



## PixelSquish

Toom said:


> MTW3 case way too big? Are you a hobbit or something?



Apparently you have very little experience with a lot of wireless earbuds. The sony xm4 have a smaller case, and the buds are quite a bit bigger. The AZ60 case is like half the size. I had a pair of JBL somethings and their case was smaller than the MTW2 and 3. It's pretty bad that Sennheiser couldn't figure out how to make the case smaller from the 2 to the 3, of which I've had both.

Expand your horizons before making ignorant statements.


----------



## Phaethon

Not so fat head said:


> The sound you're describing, I hear on my Sennheiser, Sony's, Apple AAP, Bose QC's/SoundSports/Soundsports Free's, M&D's, B&W's..and others...
> There is no panacea here..



There is no magic bullet - expensive or not!
My experiences lead me to believe that all amplification and speaker systems add some color to sound. The question becomes what piece of gear colors the sound in a way that is pleasing to my ear!! What gear is best at fooling my ears to thinking I’m in a studio or at the foot of a stage!


----------



## Caipirina (Aug 23, 2022)

Anyone seen these rumored Bose QC 2 pics yet? Not sure if real, somehow I can't imagine Bose dropping the StayHear tips ...

IF they end up having God Tier ANC - take my money please 

more over at https://www.xda-developers.com/bose-quietcomfort-earbuds-ii-leak/


----------



## jant71

Caipirina said:


> Anyone seen these rumored Bose QC 2 pics yet? Not sure if real, somehow I can't imagine Bose dropping the StayHear tips ...
> 
> IF they end up having God Tier ANC - take my money please
> 
> more over at https://www.xda-developers.com/bose-quietcomfort-earbuds-ii-leak/


Some sort of early April Fool's joke??? A small and ergonomically well shaped BOSE true wireless? Nah! Can't be.


----------



## Luke Skywalker

jant71 said:


> Some sort of early April Fool's joke??? A small and ergonomically well shaped BOSE true wireless? Nah! Can't be.


Ha yeah although I have to say mine have functioned flawlessly and the NC is superior to everything else in my collection with the possible exception of the Sony XM3


----------



## dweaver (Aug 23, 2022)

So I have $75 of Amazone gift money available. Based on Amazon only availability what would be a worthwhile TWS to consider. Budget limitation of $150Cad. I can get the Soundcore L3P for $150 so that one I am thinking of. Is there any other good choice for that price range or lower?

I love my Linkbuds S and they are my daily driver. I am wanting something that will have amazing 3D imaging or a more dynamic bigger sound as an alternative. It would be nice to have an app and things like ANC but since the Linkbuds do all that these feature are less important.

To help rule out some usual suspects I already own or have owned:
In Between Pro
Galaxy Buds Pro
Sennheiser CX400
Sony WF-1000XM3
Jabra Elite 3 and 7

Might be some more but can't think of them off the top of my head.

Not willing to spring the big bucks on the new Galaxy Buds 2 Pro, would love to try the WF-1000XM4 just to see if my thoughts on them are accurate or not but can't afford that high a price tag just to satisfy curiosity.

I looked to see if I could get the Tinbud 3 but not available through Amazon Canada yet .

How about LG FP9 I can get one through the outlets store for under $150? NVM apparently has major cosmetic damage. So a no go for me...


----------



## Caipirina

dweaver said:


> So I have $75 of Amazone gift money available. Based on Amazon only availability what would be a worthwhile TWS to consider. Budget limitation of $150Cad. I can get the Soundcore L3P for $150 so that one I am thinking of. Is there any other good choice for that price range or lower?
> 
> I love my Linkbuds S and they are my daily driver. I am wanting something that will have amazing 3D imaging or a more dynamic bigger sound as an alternative. It would be nice to have an app and things like ANC but since the Linkbuds do all that these feature are less important.
> 
> ...


i think you answered your own question ... I am very happy to have the L3P in my stable, even though i was, as usual, late to the party. Not sure about the 3D imaging, but I find them to be very dynamic, and they get some extra shine when I hood them up to my LDAC player ...


----------



## Luke Skywalker

I like the NUARL N6 Pro in that price range…


----------



## clerkpalmer

@erockg, lost my adidas to the washing machine. Did you say you had a deal/code on these some where? Thanks in advance.


----------



## Luke Skywalker

Need to find a new IEM to use with my UTWS5. I tried my Monarch Mk2 with my new Gryphon and decided to keep them wired  

Any thoughts?


----------



## BooleanBones

Luke Skywalker said:


> Need to find a new IEM to use with my UTWS5. I tried my Monarch Mk2 with my new Gryphon and decided to keep them wired
> 
> Any thoughts?


I feel your pain. I listen to my IE600 wired (balanced) more often than not.


----------



## clerkpalmer

Caipirina said:


> Anyone seen these rumored Bose QC 2 pics yet? Not sure if real, somehow I can't imagine Bose dropping the StayHear tips ...
> 
> IF they end up having God Tier ANC - take my money please
> 
> more over at https://www.xda-developers.com/bose-quietcomfort-earbuds-ii-leak/


Instabuy. Wonder if Bose will get these to the market before the APP2?


----------



## assassin10000

Luke Skywalker said:


> Need to find a new IEM to use with my UTWS5. I tried my Monarch Mk2 with my new Gryphon and decided to keep them wired
> 
> Any thoughts?



Maybe some MMCX earbuds?


----------



## alsorkin

Luke Skywalker said:


> Need to find a new IEM to use with my UTWS5. I tried my Monarch Mk2 with my new Gryphon and decided to keep them wired
> 
> Any thoughts?


Fiio FH9 works great with my UTWS5.


----------



## dweaver

I really enjoy my FH5 with my UTWS5


----------



## dweaver

Luke Skywalker said:


> I like the NUARL N6 Pro in that price range…


Unfortunately dancing into over my budget by about $60 but they do look intriguing.


----------



## voicemaster

Luke Skywalker said:


> Need to find a new IEM to use with my UTWS5. I tried my Monarch Mk2 with my new Gryphon and decided to keep them wired
> 
> Any thoughts?






UM Mest Indigo


----------



## Caipirina

clerkpalmer said:


> Instabuy. Wonder if Bose will get these to the market before the APP2?


I want too, but it is allegedly 299$!!!!  For that I hope there are some surprises in store .. like LDAC or hybrid config .. or mind blasting ANC


----------



## Mangodango369

voicemaster said:


> UM Mest Indigo


does the quality really drop by a significant amount? always tempted to try these bluetooth adapters but never got to pull the trigger on them, sometimes just can't deal with cables y'know hahaha


----------



## clerkpalmer

Caipirina said:


> I want too, but it is allegedly 299$!!!!  For that I hope there are some surprises in store .. like LDAC or hybrid config .. or mind blasting ANC


Agree hence my point about the APP2. These Bose look great but if the APP2 offer similar ANC and lossless music, the Bose may be a tough sell. They better get them out sooner rather than later.


----------



## clerkpalmer

Before I go hunting for another set of my trusty adidas cycling buds, anything else in the sub 100 category worth considering?  The star of the show was the fit and very low profile with virtually zero wind noise. I also appreciated being able to lock the touch controls from the app.


----------



## Aevum

the older samsung buds plus or 2 would sometimes go on sale under 100 bucks

Soundpeats Mini pro, 1more comfortbuds pro, Soundcore P3 life. maybe earfuns


----------



## Luke Skywalker

voicemaster said:


> UM Mest Indigo


Ha I bet those sound amazing. My Lolas sounded great with the UTWS3 but they didn’t fit in the case. I tried the Monarch Mk2’ with the UTWS5 and wasn’t all that impressed. My Euclids were too quiet to hear with the -5


----------



## PhenixS1970

Hi All,

Listed my Beoplay EX in classifieds (EU sale only).


----------



## erockg

clerkpalmer said:


> @erockg, lost my adidas to the washing machine. Did you say you had a deal/code on these some where? Thanks in advance.


I used Honey and more back on them.  Looks like they're still on sale via adidas.com for $102  https://www.adidas.com/us/adidas-fw...s-earbuds/EY5112.html?forceSelSize=EY5112_500 Then you can get $10+ back via Honey.


----------



## erockg

BooleanBones said:


> I feel your pain. I listen to my IE600 wired (balanced) more often than not.


My IE600s may be on the way out.  They're not getting love.  My Moondrop S8 fit me so much better.  I've tried so many tips on the Sennies and they just keep pushing out. Granted, I'm not using wires, never will, only the adapters .  I've tried almost ever tip under the sun.  One last effort today with some LL Final tips


----------



## BooleanBones (Aug 24, 2022)

erockg said:


> My IE600s may be on the way out.  They're not getting love.  My Moondrop S8 fit me so much better.  I've tried so many tips on the Sennies and they just keep pushing out. Granted, I'm not using wires, never will, only the adapters .  I've tried almost ever tip under the sun.  One last effort today with some LL Final tips


Definitely can see that with adapters especially. They just don’t sit as well hooked up to them. Have you tried using the second position on the stem for the tip placement?


----------



## FullCircle

C_Lindbergh said:


> Holy... I doubt they'll sell many... TWS gets dated way faster than ordinary IEMs.


Like bread


----------



## EMEM2049

voicemaster said:


> UM Mest Indigo


God those look gorgeous!


----------



## Luke Skywalker

erockg said:


> My IE600s may be on the way out.  They're not getting love.  My Moondrop S8 fit me so much better.  I've tried so many tips on the Sennies and they just keep pushing out. Granted, I'm not using wires, never will, only the adapters .  I've tried almost ever tip under the sun.  One last effort today with some LL Final tips


That’s funny I was looking at the S8 today as a lower cost option for my UTWS5. How do they compare to your Monarch Mk2?


----------



## carmatic

so I am using LDAC to connect to my Bluetooth earbuds
according to Wikipedia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LDAC_(codec)
"When the codec is set to 16 bits/44.1kHz at 909 kbps (or 16 bits/48kHz at 990 kbps) LDAC can stream lossless audio that is identical in quality to (or slightly higher than) Audio CD."

so if I go into Developer Options and force it to 990/909kbps and 44.1khz 16 bit, does that mean I get lossless bit perfect audio, at least for CD quality ?


----------



## erockg (Aug 24, 2022)

Luke Skywalker said:


> That’s funny I was looking at the S8 today as a lower cost option for my UTWS5. How do they compare to your Monarch Mk2?


It's been months since I've had the MK2, but I'd say I prefer the fit and tonality over the MK2.  I also prefer the soundstage and instrument separation.  But mind you, I'm only using a TWS adapter with them.  The MK2 killed my ears after a while.  Never have issues with the molded Moondrop IEMs.


----------



## Devodonaldson

carmatic said:


> so I am using LDAC to connect to my Bluetooth earbuds
> according to Wikipedia
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LDAC_(codec)
> "When the codec is set to 16 bits/44.1kHz at 909 kbps (or 16 bits/48kHz at 990 kbps) LDAC can stream lossless audio that is identical in quality to (or slightly higher than) Audio CD."
> ...


Bluetooth is NEVER lossless


----------



## jant71

carmatic said:


> so I am using LDAC to connect to my Bluetooth earbuds
> according to Wikipedia
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LDAC_(codec)
> "When the codec is set to 16 bits/44.1kHz at 909 kbps (or 16 bits/48kHz at 990 kbps) LDAC can stream lossless audio that is identical in quality to (or slightly higher than) Audio CD."
> ...


You know that CD audio is well above 1,000kbps.  Hence 990kbps can not be bit for bit. LDAC is a lossy codec.


----------



## EMINENT

Anyone got the LG T90Q's yet? Looks like this one checks all my boxes.


----------



## EMINENT

EMINENT said:


> Anyone got the LG T90Q's yet? Looks like this one checks all my boxes.


Nevermind. Looks bunk. Ordered EX's to see what the hype about.


----------



## raymanh

chortya said:


> I am really impressed by Samsung Buds2 Pro. Good ANC, completely 0 background noise and great sound quality. The only downside is that the highest quality codex is only available for Galaxy phones.
> 
> I have also used Beyerdynamic Free Byrd. Impressive sound quality and battery life. They are a bit to big and have audible background noise.



Let us know if you get an ear infection please!!


----------



## VICosPhi

Got the Galaxy Buds 2 Pro and these sound really good. A lot better than Galaxy Buds Pro IMO. Sadly these use the proprietary tips. The tips are round in shape but they have a very short stem so no third party tips compatibility.

The bud size is on the smaller side so these are comfortable in ear but without custom tips, it's not a great experience for me. Sound is very balanced with good sub bass. Vocals are forward and treble is just enough. Phone call quality is very good as well. Transparency is very very good, ANC is acceptable and on part with most good buds.

Touch controls are ok for ANC and tracks, but suck for volume control as you have to touch the tip and enable this in advanced settings in the app.


----------



## TK33

VICosPhi said:


> Got the Galaxy Buds 2 Pro and these sound really good. A lot better than Galaxy Buds Pro IMO. Sadly these use the proprietary tips. The tips are round in shape but they have a very short stem so no third party tips compatibility.
> 
> The bud size is on the smaller side so these are comfortable in ear but without custom tips, it's not a great experience for me. Sound is very balanced with good sub bass. Vocals are forward and treble is just enough. Phone call quality is very good as well. Transparency is very very good, ANC is acceptable and on part with most good buds.
> 
> Touch controls are ok for ANC and tracks, but suck for volume control as you have to touch the tip and enable this in advanced settings in the app.


Is volume control the same as the Buds2 where you can double tap the back of your ear (pushing ear forward to tap the buds) to change volume? I found it really annoying when i was eating as chewing on one side of the mouth would cause inadvertent taps to register on the back part of the Buds and trigger volume changes.  I had to disable volume control because of this.


----------



## Toom

PixelSquish said:


> Apparently you have very little experience with a lot of wireless earbuds. The sony xm4 have a smaller case, and the buds are quite a bit bigger. The AZ60 case is like half the size. I had a pair of JBL somethings and their case was smaller than the MTW2 and 3. It's pretty bad that Sennheiser couldn't figure out how to make the case smaller from the 2 to the 3, of which I've had both.
> 
> Expand your horizons before making ignorant statements.


No,  it's not about thst at all. I have had a few TWS in my time,  and the size of the case for any of them has never been an issue in the slightest.  Why do you need the MTW3 case to be smaller,  that's my question? What do you want to do with it that you can't already?


----------



## jant71

Toom said:


> No,  it's not about thst at all. I have had a few TWS in my time,  and the size of the case for any of them has never been an issue in the slightest.  Why do you need the MTW3 case to be smaller,  that's my question? What do you want to do with it that you can't already?


Guess you don't know the big goal for true wireless....




...is to fit in this pocket!


----------



## EMINENT

jant71 said:


> Guess you don't know the big goal for true wireless....
> 
> ...is to fit in this pocket!


Until you had it there and it pops out and hits the floor and you go chasing your buds..


----------



## VICosPhi

TK33 said:


> Is volume control the same as the Buds2 where you can double tap the back of your ear (pushing ear forward to tap the buds) to change volume? I found it really annoying when i was eating as chewing on one side of the mouth would cause inadvertent taps to register on the back part of the Buds and trigger volume changes.  I had to disable volume control because of this.


Yep it's the same sadly....


----------



## voicemaster

Mangodango369 said:


> does the quality really drop by a significant amount? always tempted to try these bluetooth adapters but never got to pull the trigger on them, sometimes just can't deal with cables y'know hahaha


I don't think it drop that much with the UTWS5. The UTWS5 is pretty flat in comparison to my KZ AZ09pro which boost the low end a bit even in default setting. Just make sure you use the AptX adaptive codec.


----------



## voicemaster

EMEM2049 said:


> God those look gorgeous!


Indeed!


----------



## Cevisi (Aug 24, 2022)

VICosPhi said:


> Got the Galaxy Buds 2 Pro and these sound really good. A lot better than Galaxy Buds Pro IMO. Sadly these use the proprietary tips. The tips are round in shape but they have a very short stem so no third party tips compatibility.
> 
> The bud size is on the smaller side so these are comfortable in ear but without custom tips, it's not a great experience for me. Sound is very balanced with good sub bass. Vocals are forward and treble is just enough. Phone call quality is very good as well. Transparency is very very good, ANC is acceptable and on part with most good buds.
> 
> Touch controls are ok for ANC and tracks, but suck for volume control as you have to touch the tip and enable this in advanced settings in the app.


You can use azla sedna for tws or horn shaped dor tws or even spinfit for tws

But i would say wait i contacted azla and they told me there are tips coming special for the buds2 pro because the normal tws azla are a bit to short


----------



## pawdog

VICosPhi said:


> Got the Galaxy Buds 2 Pro and these sound really good. A lot better than Galaxy Buds Pro IMO. Sadly these use the proprietary tips. The tips are round in shape but they have a very short stem so no third party tips compatibility.
> 
> The bud size is on the smaller side so these are comfortable in ear but without custom tips, it's not a great experience for me. Sound is very balanced with good sub bass. Vocals are forward and treble is just enough. Phone call quality is very good as well. Transparency is very very good, ANC is acceptable and on part with most good buds.
> 
> Touch controls are ok for ANC and tracks, but suck for volume control as you have to touch the tip and enable this in advanced settings in the app.


Try tapping the back of your ear lobe or that little spot right in front of your ear. You don't actually have to touch the buds to change the volume. Probably my favorite feature of Samsung Buds.


----------



## C_Lindbergh

Toom said:


> No,  it's not about thst at all. I have had a few TWS in my time,  and the size of the case for any of them has never been an issue in the slightest.  Why do you need the MTW3 case to be smaller,  that's my question? What do you want to do with it that you can't already?


Some people just prefer a smaller case, I tend to agree. A smaller case just makes it feels less intrusive in your pockets.


----------



## Toom

jant71 said:


> Guess you don't know the big goal for true wireless....
> 
> ...is to fit in this pocket!


Wow,  you wear those in the gym and in bed,  or at the beach, or....?


----------



## jant71 (Aug 25, 2022)

They do exist... https://www-audio--technica-co-jp.t...H-TWX9?_x_tr_sl=ja&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en-US


----------



## Ceeluh7 (Aug 25, 2022)

KZ VXS  5 driver hybrid (1DD / 4 BA)

Fellas, I haven't been around here very often lately as I've been ridiculously busy but i got this set in the mail today. Was a nice surprise from KZ. Anyways, this set is not bad at all. Sound wise. Some of the loudest tws I've heard in quite some time as well. Bare bones for the most part, except a low latency mode but the SQ is pretty darn nice. It's a budget set, I think Amazon sells them for around $50ish give or take a few. I don't normally go the ChiFi route but KZ has put out quite a few models now and seem to be getting things together. Anyways thought I'd share. Take care


----------



## mainguy

Been using the MW08 and they are the best tws on the market imo, replacing my old fave the PI7

BUT, these things are useless for working out. They wobble all over. What happened to the awesome wing design of the mw07+?


----------



## tiagopinto (Aug 25, 2022)

clerkpalmer said:


> Before I go hunting for another set of my trusty adidas cycling buds, anything else in the sub 100 category worth considering?  The star of the show was the fit and very low profile with virtually zero wind noise. I also appreciated being able to lock the touch controls from the app.



When you say “zero wind noise” is this with transparency on? If yes, I must look into them. Which adidas are these exactly?

The CA MT give me great isolation but once I switch on transparency, while riding my bike, so I can listen to traffic, they’re unusable. Or at least very annoying past 15km/h.

Edit: in a longshot, but still possible, I may be able to get something from adidas directly. Are these the best adidas out there?


----------



## tiagopinto

jant71 said:


> They do exist... https://www-audio--technica-co-jp.t...H-TWX9?_x_tr_sl=ja&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en-US




Wow, these look goooood... what are they priced around? Do you know how they sound or still unreleased?


----------



## jant71 (Aug 25, 2022)

tiagopinto said:


> Wow, these look goooood... what are they priced around? Do you know how they sound or still unreleased?


Sept. 3 in Japan. Price for Japan is 33,000Yen or $240USD. November in the states was what the B&H site said but that was not set in stone most likely.


----------



## tiagopinto (Aug 25, 2022)

jant71 said:


> Sept. 3 in Japan. Price for Japan is 33,000Yen or $240USD. November in the states was what the B&H site said but that was not set in stone most likely.



Great (unless it’s Japan only). Similarly priced to the Free Byrds. Hmmmmm...

Edit: I just saw you added US info. So... if we’re lucky, Europe will get them for New Years. Although, I’m very inclined towards the Beyers at this moment.


----------



## C_Lindbergh

jant71 said:


> They do exist... https://www-audio--technica-co-jp.t...H-TWX9?_x_tr_sl=ja&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en-US



Shame that the case looks a bit too big/flashy :/


----------



## tiagopinto

C_Lindbergh said:


> Shame that the case looks a bit too big/flashy :/



I guess the size is due to the UV Sterilization contraption. But I honestly don’t care much about case size. At least as long as it fits in a pocket (and not only ye olde pocket watch pocket. Try putting anything solid in there and sitting down...) Otherwise, they tick all my boxes. Interesting customization options too. Very curious about how these sound.


----------



## jant71 (Aug 25, 2022)

tiagopinto said:


> I guess the size is due to the UV Sterilization contraption. But I honestly don’t care much about case size. At least as long as it fits in a pocket (and not only ye olde pocket watch pocket. Try putting anything solid in there and sitting down...) Otherwise, they tick all my boxes. Interesting customization options too. Very curious about how these sound.


The case seems middle of the road size. Indeed gets thicker on the back end with the UV and Qi stuff in there.




Hard to tell without knowing the hand size 

Seems on par with the Beyer case as we had the proto pics. Beyer case is 60 grams and AT is listed at 55.9 grams so 56. Doubt the case size is a dealbreaker. SQ and ANC quality will be though.


----------



## Not so fat head

jant71 said:


> They do exist... https://www-audio--technica-co-jp.t...H-TWX9?_x_tr_sl=ja&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en-US



Nice design..  I had a very high end Technics cassette deck that rivaled my Akai R2R deck in sound.
Great company..


----------



## scubaphish

C_Lindbergh said:


> Shame that the case looks a bit too big/flashy :/


Interesting that they don’t even mention the UV gizmo in the video


----------



## james444

jant71 said:


> They do exist... https://www-audio--technica-co-jp.t...H-TWX9?_x_tr_sl=ja&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en-US




ATH-TWX9 review: https://www-phileweb-com.translate.goog/review/article/202208/25/4853.html?_x_tr_sl=ja&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=de&_x_tr_pto=wapp


----------



## Luke Skywalker

jant71 said:


> You know that CD audio is well above 1,000kbps.  Hence 990kbps can not be bit for bit. LDAC is a lossy codec.


I’m listening to a Pink Floyd DSD album that’s 11.2 Mbps


----------



## tiagopinto

james444 said:


> ATH-TWX9 review: https://www-phileweb-com.translate.goog/review/article/202208/25/4853.html?_x_tr_sl=ja&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=de&_x_tr_pto=wapp



Wooow. I’d like to have some comparisons. But they’re promising.


----------



## chinmie

feature, battery life, size, all seems to fit my needs.. interesting!


----------



## battosai

chinmie said:


> feature, battery life, size, all seems to fit my needs.. interesting!



Ordered them today. We'll see how they sound. PM if you want a code for $20off


----------



## chinmie

battosai said:


> Ordered them today. We'll see how they sound. PM if you want a code for $20off



nice! I'll be waiting for your impression. i will wait for it to be available in my local stores, easier to deal with warranty and stuff


----------



## Nostoi

james444 said:


> ATH-TWX9 review: https://www-phileweb-com.translate.goog/review/article/202208/25/4853.html?_x_tr_sl=ja&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=de&_x_tr_pto=wapp


These look very interesting, indeed. Like the design, like the impressions so far. Hopefully they'll lean toward an MSR7B style of tuning, rather than the usual mid-bass bloat one generally finds in wireless buds.


----------



## sofastreamer

dweaver said:


> So I have $75 of Amazone gift money available. Based on Amazon only availability what would be a worthwhile TWS to consider. Budget limitation of $150Cad. I can get the Soundcore L3P for $150 so that one I am thinking of. Is there any other good choice for that price range or lower?
> 
> I love my Linkbuds S and they are my daily driver. I am wanting something that will have amazing 3D imaging or a more dynamic bigger sound as an alternative. It would be nice to have an app and things like ANC but since the Linkbuds do all that these feature are less important.
> 
> ...


final ze3000 should be worth a look at.


----------



## whitete

chinmie said:


> feature, battery life, size, all seems to fit my needs.. interesting!



This is a great review!  I ordered these right after I watched this!  Not that I need more IEMs… 😩


----------



## dweaver

chinmie said:


> feature, battery life, size, all seems to fit my needs.. interesting!



those look very interesting, they are $129 in Canada and say not available until end of September so may wait until actually available and hopefully they go on sale for a bit off to make them more affordable.


----------



## Bhelpoori

battosai said:


> Ordered them today. We'll see how they sound. PM if you want a code for $20off


Just an FYI on battery life… from Soundcore FAQ: 8hrs with ANC and only 5 hours with talk+ANC. 

Also, is the A40 Soundcore’s equivalent to the 1More Evo but for less money?

Full info:

Normal Mode: Up to 10 hours on a single charge of the earbuds. 50 hours with the charging case.
Noise Cancelling Mode: Up to 8 hours on a single charge of the earbuds. 40 hours with the charging case.
Transparency Mode: Up to 8 hours on a single charge of the earbuds. 40 hours with the charging case.
Call: Up to 6 hours in Normal mode. 5 hours in ANC mode. 
Note: Battery playtime is obtained from testing in the Anker laboratory using the earbuds' default settings, in normal mode, and 50% volume. The actual playtime may vary by volume, audio source, environmental interference, usage, etc.


----------



## Tommy C

Bhelpoori said:


> Just an FYI on battery life… from Soundcore FAQ: 8hrs with ANC and only 5 hours with talk+ANC.
> 
> Also, is the A40 Soundcore’s equivalent to the 1More Evo but for less money?
> 
> ...


Based on my experience with TWS they all drain battery quite a bit when using them for calls as opposed to just playing music.


----------



## dj24 (Aug 26, 2022)

Okay I have to ask this since it has been bugging me for a while...

What is everyone's experience and feedback when it comes to call quality for the person on the other end?  Specifically what they tell you about background noise from your end.  I had forgotten and left a kitchen faucet running on really low the other day and a client on the other end asked me if I was doing dishes....  I was on my Jabra 75t active at the time and after finishing the call I could barely hear the water running myself.  I've had similar issues with various other supposed call quality TWS champs where minor background noise like footsteps penetrate easily and gets mentioned by the person on the other end of the call.

Is this the norm for everyone as well?  The voice quality itself is fine but minor noises like doors opening and closing, a.c turning on and off and even tapping on a computer keyboard seem to easily get through.  Actually it's any and every background noise as far as I'm concerned.  Are we "not there yet" when it comes to background noise suppression when it comes to TWS in general or is it just me?


----------



## PixelSquish

Anybody have any luck with Sennheiser CS lately? My amazing sounding MTW3 have the issue where when you put them in the case sometimes the magnets aren't strong enough to disconnect them from the phone. It's been 9 days and I got an automated email response with a ticket # but absolutely no human response.


----------



## bladefd

PixelSquish said:


> Anybody have any luck with Sennheiser CS lately? My amazing sounding MTW3 have the issue where when you put them in the case sometimes the magnets aren't strong enough to disconnect them from the phone. It's been 9 days and I got an automated email response with a ticket # but absolutely no human response.


They used to be awesome until they got outsourced couple years ago. I contacted them for an issue with my Sennheiser HD600, and I just got some automated message then several days later got a person. By the time the person responded, I had already solved the issue through reddit /r/sennheiser, which was more useful than Sennheiser's CS. Not sure if calling on the phone would be quicker, but it's worth a shot!


----------



## TK33 (Aug 26, 2022)

PixelSquish said:


> Anybody have any luck with Sennheiser CS lately? My amazing sounding MTW3 have the issue where when you put them in the case sometimes the magnets aren't strong enough to disconnect them from the phone. It's been 9 days and I got an automated email response with a ticket # but absolutely no human response.


How did you contact them? If you bought it from an authorized dealer then it would be under warranty and, if it were me, I would start a warranty repair claim and just send it in rather than wait for a person to get back to me.  I recall I just sent in my MTW a while back and they sent me a new one.  I have found these comapnies dont really do much troubleshooting or repair with TWS (I have unfortunately had to do replacements from B&W, Samsung, Sennheiser for TWS) and they were all just done online under warranty (i.e. started the claim online and just mailed it in). I have done the same for repairs for some of my older Shure IEMs that I wanted to get repaired (out of warranty so they gave me an estimate upon receipt).  Link for the US (choose "Repairs" then choose "Headphones" and search for "MTW3"):

https://en-us.sennheiser.com/service-support

Edit: If still within the return period, it may be easier to return and buy a new one.  I haven't had any issues with my MTW3s not snapping securely in the case and disconnecting.


----------



## dweaver

Well between being able use a discount code on the Amazon Canada website, and the more sleek fit I decided to try this new Space A40 from Soundcore. Might take a bit of time before I get them but only had to pay $34 after using my gift card. 

So will give a quick review on them when they arrive


----------



## voicemaster

Bought Soundcore A40 and Galaxy Buds2 pro for my travelling next Monday. I will mostly use my UTWS5 + UM Mest Indigo and Qudelix 5K + Hook-X when watching or listening to the flight entertainment console because my BT transmitter only do AptX Adaptive and not LDAC.


----------



## dweaver

The new GBuds Pro 2 are interesting but just to pricy especially since I.own the GBuds Pro already so passing on them for now.

Going to do a comparison between the Space A40 and the Linkbuds S though along with what ever else I still have on hand.


----------



## voicemaster

dweaver said:


> The new GBuds Pro 2 are interesting but just to pricy especially since I.own the GBuds Pro already so passing on them for now.
> 
> Going to do a comparison between the Space A40 and the Linkbuds S though along with what ever else I still have on hand.


From all three, the Soundcore A40 has the most natural and open sound.


----------



## dweaver

voicemaster said:


> From all three, the Soundcore A40 has the most natural and open sound.


That will awesome! I hope I hear them the same way .


----------



## clerkpalmer

dweaver said:


> The new GBuds Pro 2 are interesting but just to pricy especially since I.own the GBuds Pro already so passing on them for now.
> 
> Going to do a comparison between the Space A40 and the Linkbuds S though along with what ever else I still have on hand.


Interested. Fold 4 incoming so back to Samsung for now. I see them all over eBay for about $130. Anyone with the Pro2 comment on them? I’d be most interested in fit for exercise.


----------



## raymanh

voicemaster said:


> From all three, the Soundcore A40 has the most natural and open sound.


 You already have the A40???


----------



## voicemaster

raymanh said:


> You already have the A40???


Yes


----------



## Bhelpoori

Tommy C said:


> Based on my experience with TWS they all drain battery quite a bit when using them for calls as opposed to just playing music.


Completely agree… But if you advertise 10 hours battery life and in real life get 5 hours, then that’s a rather large difference and just wanted everyone to know. Having said that it is way more than the 1More Evo and lots of others for ANC on/AAC on bud and bud+case.


----------



## Luke Skywalker

I wonder if we’ll ever get true wireless IEM adapters with active noise canceling…


----------



## james444

Luke Skywalker said:


> I wonder if we’ll ever get true wireless IEM adapters with active noise canceling…



Unfortunately, you could at best implement feedforward ANC with IEM adapters, which is not as advanced as hybrid ANC on current TWS earphones.

https://www.jabra.com/blog/anc-headsets-arent-all-the-same-three-types-of-anc/


----------



## Not so fat head

Yep, need to cancel noise at the receptor, your ears....
Lots of electronics/ mic's/DSP involved.


----------



## Luke Skywalker

Not so fat head said:


> Yep, need to cancel noise at the receptor, your ears....
> Lots of electronics/ mic's/DSP involved.


Wish I could do that with the noise from my mother in law


----------



## voicemaster

Luke Skywalker said:


> Wish I could do that with the noise from my mother in law


There is something called duck tape.


----------



## Pansbjorne

Anyone know why so many NIB Samsung Buds2 Pro are showing up on the used market (particularly reddit)?


----------



## cresny

Pansbjorne said:


> Anyone know why so many NIB Samsung Buds2 Pro are showing up on the used market (particularly reddit)?


people getting them free with phones?


----------



## dweaver (Aug 28, 2022)

watching some reviews where they do some sound comparisons between the Soundcore Space Q45 and A40. The Q45 seems to be super bassy and the A40 seem a lot more balanced. Going to be interesting when these arrive. Hope they come faster than the estimated September 26 - Oct 6 date Amazon is listing. The Q45 sound like they have better ANC and phone call quality.


----------



## TK33 (Aug 27, 2022)

Pansbjorne said:


> Anyone know why so many NIB Samsung Buds2 Pro are showing up on the used market (particularly reddit)?


It was part of the phone pre-order promos.  For the Flip4 preorder, Samsung was giving up to $900 trade in credit, free case, memory upgrade on lowest model + $200 to spend on accessories if you watched their video.  My guess is many people used the credit to buy the Buds2 Pro and are flipping them for a profit.

EDIT: I debated using the credit for the Buds2 Pro for myself but since I just recently picked up the MTW3, I decided to just get my wife the Watch 5 instead.  My brother did order the Flip4 256gb + case + Duo wireless charger + Galaxy Buds2 Pro for $127.27 + tax after trade in.  Sell the Buds2 Pro and you basically made money.  

Would be interested to hear more impressions about them. I think what I have seen has been pretty positive so far.  Personally, I am still holding out hope for a Galaxy Buds Live 2.


----------



## raymanh

voicemaster said:


> Yes



I hope you'll do a little review and comparison!


----------



## erockg (Aug 28, 2022)

Got my Soundcore Space A40 today.  For the price, I'm impressed.  Using Moondrop Springtips and ANC is very impressive.  Small and pretty much has all the bells and whistles less auto pause.  I used them to listen to a baseball game while out and about and no issues.  They're nice and small.  Going to try and use them sleeping tonight.  I'll report back after a few days.


----------



## HaliHarry (Aug 28, 2022)

productred said:


> The Victor and EVA plays some of these way better than the fokus pro. I listen to lots of Sawano as well. For the kpop there, I think the EVA and the fokus suits more than the Victor due to their bigger and deeper bass rumble but Victor tends to highlight the vocals more, if that's what you are after.
> 
> Gotta say I never consider fokus pro to be mid-focus - quite the opposite the mids are too scooped out for my liking, to the effect that much of the vocal or instrument timber cannot be accurately presented. On the other hand, the Victors is decidedly mid-focus while the final/EVA is somehow the most balanced of the bunch. I had sung praises on my Victor woodies before but here I wanna give some credit also to the final/EVA, they are surprisingly good not just for a anime fans oriented product but also in general as a TWS released 2 years ago. Still one of the best sounding TWS up to today in my books.


I dont think victor fw1000t have better vocal than fokus pro because i always feel vocal on victor isn’t clear like fokus pro. On the other hand, i like bass on Victor more than fokus pro because it is deep, clear and warm more than fokus pro. I’m so confused, i dont really know that should keep which one  lol
i use tips azla xelastec and jvc spiral dot++ instead of stock tips


----------



## Tommy C (Aug 28, 2022)

For those who prioritize sound quality and comfortable form factor over anything else I still highly recommend the Shure TW2 adapters with your own IEM as long as they fit.
The app is great and the EQ is one of the best in the business. Transparency mode is excellent and they are very comfortable and I can easily make phone calls and people say they hear me very loud and clear. They are also the most reliable TWS that I currently own and the battery life is superb.
I just like the fact I can use my IEMs and they fit perfectly.
The case is big but I learn to live with it. 😎


----------



## Caipirina (Aug 28, 2022)

Argh ,.. more Soundcore!  I realized yesterday that I had not check / played with my Soundcore Liberty Air TWO Pro in nearly a year! Those are still very nice buds and had their hype moment .. similar to the 1more Comfobuds Pro Aurora ... and since they are stem based, they simply do not get much love anymore ...
And with the L3P still going strong and being a powerhouse of joy, I just can't get myself to get yet another Soundcore set ... (ignoring that slight relapse I had with the A3i i had over the summer, which I also sent back )
Trying to save my money for the APP2 and the BoseQCeb2


----------



## whitete

raymanh said:


> You already have the A40???


I got my A40 yesterday but the left earphone won’t charge. 😩 I’m sure Soundcore will make it right but it’s still frustrating.


----------



## clerkpalmer

cresny said:


> people getting them free with phones?


This.


----------



## dweaver (Aug 28, 2022)

OK, am I doing something wrong?

I was listening to my AZ60 and enjoying enjoying "An Ancient Muse" by Loreena Mckennit and noticed the deep bass in a couple of songs. So switched to the Linkbuds S and the bass more subdued but the amount of detail was way more than the AZ60. 

I then switched to LDAC on the Linkbuds because I use LDAC on the AZ60 and suddenly the detail dropped more like the AZ60 and the bass increased a bit but still less than the AZ60.

So I put back on the AZ60 and turned off LDAC and the detail increased to almost the same level as the Linkbuds S. 

Why would LDAC lack detail, it should be the exact opposite??? I will play with the developer settings, but this just seems bizarre to me.

I know I can't get 990 on any LDAC device I have tried so have tried 330, 660 and adaptive and don't notice much difference between those three (I make sure they get applied by adjusting either the bits per sample or sample rate). I have tried switching from 32 bit to 24 and 16 bit and that doesn't seem to make the difference and neither does lowering the sample rate from 96.

The noise floor is much lower in LDAC but at the cost of detail. Originally I thought this was an issue with the Linkbuds S but now hearing it with the AZ60 has me thinking it's the codec or something with my phone (Samsung S20).

Anyone experience this or have a setting I am missing?

EDIT: found it! If I switch the sample rate to 44.1 the sound jumps back up to the same detail as AAC. Bizarre, I am using Amazon Music and the album is Ultra HD so should be able take advantage of a higher sample rate I would have thought.

I notice this issue on a lot of my music with LDAC including my own music I ripped to FLAC as well as my hi-res FLAC files I bought online from places like HD Track.

I played with DSEE and this the first time I could hear an improvement. It did make this album sound better.

Be interesting just how badly the LDAC and DSEE kill the battery life LOL.

I wish LDAC wasn't such a mess in regards to having to be tweaked to even begin to get it to work correctly and you have to do it every time you use it. For the average person it's a complete waste of time.


----------



## helmutcheese (Aug 28, 2022)

Yip esp. as many do not have a clue and are listening to CD rips mp3 320k/Flac so 16/44.1 and LDAC will be set to 24/96.

Many reviews sites said LDAC was overrated, and aptX-HD was as good as it.

The best I have heard over BT so far was the MTW3 using a 24/96 aptX Adaptive USB Adapter with Amazon Music HD but I am not 100% sure if those buds are 24/96 or 24/48 TBH or possibly my FiiO BT Neckband + FiiO FH5's via aptX-HD/LDAC with the above service.

I kept my FH7 wired but TBH they sound a bit too thud, thud of bass over the FH5's same as other have found.


----------



## dweaver

So listening to LDAC with DSEE enable no ANC I an down to 3% on the right at 11% on the left since I posted at 2:09 and that was around 90% so around 2 1/2 hours maybe 3 hrs from 100% if that. Battery just died on the right as I typed this.

Will interesting to see how good the Space A40 do, will also be testing the AZ60 in this regard.

So for those wanting the most from LDAC you might be surprised what happens when you play with the sample rate. 

So far I have found I need to adjust to 660, 24 bit, and 44.1 using my own files and Amazon music. I can also use 330 or adaptive but can set it to 660 and get decent performance with no stuttering or connectivity issues so far.

Just tested the AZ60 and they also work well with the same settings. Now that I determined what was happening I am really enjoying the AZ60 again as they have better low end than the Linkbuds S.

Will track time from 4:55 pm to see how the AZ60 last with these settings.


----------



## dweaver

Ended up putting the AZ60 back on the charger so had to reset. Right now I have been using them with LDAC plus ANC  for about 3 hrs and they are around 50% so they definitely last better than the Linkbuds S. 

Now that I have the audio sorted they sound a lot better having very good detail again.

They have a heavier and yet softer bass than the Linkbuds S. I love their ability to do big sub-bass for things like Hans Zimmer and some other tracks but wish they had better bass slam.

If the Space A40 can do the sub-bass of the AZ60 and slam of the Linkbuds S I will delighted.


----------



## james444

dweaver said:


> They have a heavier and yet softer bass than the Linkbuds S. I love their ability to do big sub-bass for things like Hans Zimmer and some other tracks but wish they had better bass slam.



You can try the custom EQ in Technics' Audio Connect app. It's only 5-band, but might still be able to do the trick.


----------



## C_Lindbergh (Aug 29, 2022)

Hopefully we'll see some news this week with IFA! Other than the new Audio-Technicas I'm really looking forward to what Technics are working on, hopefully a AZ60 v2! 

I'm also really stoked for the rumoured Xperia 5 IV, which looks be a compact phone with 3.5mm jack and the latest BT features (Snapdragon Sound/LE Audio).


----------



## Tommy C

I'm starting to feel like the TWS market is getting overly saturated with no significant improvements.
I mean yeah, we do see new features pop up here and there but for the most part it's too much of the same. 
Also, when picking up a decent set of wired IEM and doing some a/b critical listening it's pretty obvious to me that in terms of imaging and soundstage TWS are still lacking even if not by much. 
Still would like to try Noble and their TWS as I always appreciated their products though.


----------



## aweBit (Aug 29, 2022)

jant71 said:


> They do exist... https://www-audio--technica-co-jp.t...H-TWX9?_x_tr_sl=ja&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en-US



Ahhhhhh..

I am notably new to the TWS game, and have refrained from a bullet bite for the last 450+ pages of varieties that have been listed on this thread since I caught it, but this forthcoming caught me right in the feel and excitement department.

I was close to slapping my commitment on the MW08/S but have trusted a lot of mixed experiences noted in posts over time about them, but seeing them pop up again in this thread page revoked a sense of rekindled hope that it may still be an option to have a pop at.

But the ATH’s. They excite me for whatever reason. I guess solely part due to the fact that I have run them as studio supplement aids for so many years to date, and their cost effectivity being so attractive and fulfilling to match open air monitor sound, undoubtedly incomparable to more expensive options out there but being the perfect suffice for their part.

I’m a noob at finding the fulfilment of an IE system (aside from top tier expensive options, again) but I’ve always held off and awaited patiently, for what may be my forwarded desires of having an all round TWS, as I tend to save pleasure for the open air experience and have always sufficed with the compromise. But I think the time has come where I am either molding outwards or forwards, or both.

I’m not one to muster a collection of varieties as I seem to have to many varieties of hobbyist plethora that would spell me broke should I succumb to it all, so I like to nitpick here and there.

Sorry for the elaboration, but peering along for so long at this topic has made me burst my bubble! Thanks to all of you that have contributed your knowledge in this thread as this thread alone has given me many more perspectives and insights as to what I truly desire for the product I eventually commit myself to, as some sort of beginning.

Though I cannot promise it doesn’t end up a criteria that I find myself succumbing to the passion of in itself with the acquisition of many, seeing as there isn’t a single solution to cater to everything (as with everything else out there) that many of you here share and divulge together.

Peace, and I look forward to flowing with the progress of this thread into the future we are all excited about!


----------



## C_Lindbergh

Tommy C said:


> I'm starting to feel like the TWS market is getting overly saturated with no significant improvements.
> I mean yeah, we do see new features pop up here and there but for the most part it's too much of the same.
> Also, when picking up a decent set of wired IEM and doing some a/b critical listening it's pretty obvious to me that in terms of imaging and soundstage TWS are still lacking even if not by much.
> Still would like to try Noble and their TWS as I always appreciated their products though.


I've still yet to own a pair of TWS that ticks all boxes for me, but were deffy getting close with the launch of next gen Bluetooth technologies (Aptx Lossless/Aptx Voice/LE audio/LC3 plus). The new Audio Technics seems to be the first pair of premium tws that will tick almost every box for me, hopefully more brands will follow soon.


----------



## dj24

dj24 said:


> Okay I have to ask this since it has been bugging me for a while...
> 
> What is everyone's experience and feedback when it comes to call quality for the person on the other end?  Specifically what they tell you about background noise from your end.  I had forgotten and left a kitchen faucet running on really low the other day and a client on the other end asked me if I was doing dishes....  I was on my Jabra 75t active at the time and after finishing the call I could barely hear the water running myself.  I've had similar issues with various other supposed call quality TWS champs where minor background noise like footsteps penetrate easily and gets mentioned by the person on the other end of the call.
> 
> Is this the norm for everyone as well?  The voice quality itself is fine but minor noises like doors opening and closing, a.c turning on and off and even tapping on a computer keyboard seem to easily get through.  Actually it's any and every background noise as far as I'm concerned.  Are we "not there yet" when it comes to background noise suppression when it comes to TWS in general or is it just me?


I guess no one wants to touch on this   It might just be me then and I should probably start looking at professional headsets for my VOIP work calls although it's going to be hard since I love the feeling of having nothing on your head and even in your ears with TWS in general...


----------



## aweBit

Tommy C said:


> I'm starting to feel like the TWS market is getting overly saturated with no significant improvements.
> I mean yeah, we do see new features pop up here and there but for the most part it's too much of the same.
> Also, when picking up a decent set of wired IEM and doing some a/b critical listening it's pretty obvious to me that in terms of imaging and soundstage TWS are still lacking even if not by much.
> Still would like to try Noble and their TWS as I always appreciated their products though.


I couldn’t agree more and this is only of opinion, but from a witness account alone of new options popping up left right and centre in such short time, makes it seem like it’s only destined to be.

Pro’s and con’s, the balance of caveats and sacrifice to focus on another area alone, especially when you see brands have so many different variants with miniscule differences in products from one another, but enough to differentiate the product.. It may very well fall into the symptom of the technological marketed rat race that is no short of a trend in our modern day world. Relative in so many aspects.


----------



## Tommy C

dj24 said:


> I guess no one wants to touch on this   It might just be me then and I should probably start looking at professional headsets for my VOIP work calls although it's going to be hard since I love the feeling of having nothing on your head and even in your ears with TWS in general...


 
I have a Jabra headset. Can’t remember the model but can check later. 
It has a dongle and you can pair with a cellphone too. Call quality is excellent and sq is surprisingly decent too!


----------



## BooleanBones

Tommy C said:


> I have a Jabra headset. Can’t remember the model but can check later.
> It has a dongle and you can pair with a cellphone too. Call quality is excellent and sq is surprisingly decent too!


Evolve?


----------



## Luke Skywalker (Aug 29, 2022)

Tommy C said:


> I'm starting to feel like the TWS market is getting overly saturated with no significant improvements.
> I mean yeah, we do see new features pop up here and there but for the most part it's too much of the same.
> Also, when picking up a decent set of wired IEM and doing some a/b critical listening it's pretty obvious to me that in terms of imaging and soundstage TWS are still lacking even if not by much.
> Still would like to try Noble and their TWS as I always appreciated their products though.


I love the Noble FoKus Pro. In fact I’m thinking of reaching out to Noble to see which of their IEMs have the same sound signature and would be best for the kind of music I love. They’d probably kick a$$ with the Gryphon

I guess the main thing I’d want in TWS that none of them have is lossless audio up to, say 11.2 Mbps for DSD


----------



## BooleanBones

Luke Skywalker said:


> I love the Noble FoKus Pro. In fact I’m thinking of reaching out to Noble to see which of their IEMs have the same sound signature and would be best for the kind of music I love. They’d probably kick a$$ with the Gryphon
> 
> I guess the main thing I’d want in TWS that none of them have is lossless audio up to, say 11.2 Mbps for DSD


Just ask @FullCircle


----------



## Tommy C

BooleanBones said:


> Evolve?


Yeah man! The evolve2 65 with the boom mic lol 
I can literally sit on the beach and have a work call without people knowing. They are that good 😎


----------



## BooleanBones

Tommy C said:


> Yeah man! The evolve2 65 with the boom mic lol
> I can literally sit on the beach and have a work call without people knowing. They are that good 😎


I was curious about those, but then realized my speaker is fine unless I need to move about, then switch to tws


----------



## Elvis Costello

Elvis Costello said:


> The Sony WF-C500 earbuds are currently available for under £60 on Amazon.


I picked these up for the sale price.
They obviously lack many of the features found on the more premium Linkbuds S (my favourite true wireless earbuds). There is no noise cancelling, no wear sensors, no touch controls, no Sony Hybrid tips and no LDAC support.
The case also feels less premium, but actually is still quite nice.
Fit and comfort are quite good but not as good as the Linkbuds S.
Sound is decent. The Linkbuds S are much better sounding, but these are acceptable considering they are nearly £100 cheaper than those.
There are also actual buttons on the earbuds instead of touch controls which took some getting used to as it's easy to accidentally press the buttons while putting them in your ears. 
Overall, if you're on a budget or want a cheap set of true wireless earbuds then these would be a solid pick.


----------



## Tommy C

BooleanBones said:


> I was curious about those, but then realized my speaker is fine unless I need to move about, then switch to tws


It’s a fine product. Not my go-to but it’s a great set. The battery life is ridiculously long which is a huge plus for me when I’m on Zoom calls all day. 
Problem is they sit over the ears but I’m not loving it and they look a bit too goofy.


----------



## dweaver (Aug 29, 2022)

Elvis Costello said:


> I picked these up for the sale price.
> They obviously lack many of the features found on the more premium Linkbuds S (my favourite true wireless earbuds). There is no noise cancelling, no wear sensors, no touch controls, no Sony Hybrid tips and no LDAC support.
> The case also feels less premium, but actually is still quite nice.
> Fit and comfort are quite good but not as good as the Linkbuds S.
> ...


i tried to like the CF-500 but the button was a bit to hard to press so bothered my ears. I agree that the Linkbuds S sound alot better too. But I have to admit that price jump from $100CAD (actually got them for around $79-89 can't remember the exact price...) to $299 was a BIG leap. I do see the Linkbuds now occasionally going on sale for $249 and imagine they will have a Black Friday/ Boxing day prices of around $199 but thats still one heck of a jump in cost.

I kind of dread getting the Soundcore Space A40, if they sound as good as the Linkbuds S and have close to the same ANC and comfort, then they will make me feel like I wasted my money... sort of... I say sort of because I do really like the Linkbuds S as I have over 330 hours on them so far...

As I type this they are telling me the battery is almost dead though, so really do wish they had better battery life. started wearing them at 12:30 and its only 3 now, so 2.5 hours of life. Gong to check I think I may have forgot to turn DSEE back off... Just checked and sure enough it was on, man that's a battery drain...

EDIT: Does sound better though, but at that cost of battery life it has to go...


----------



## dweaver

Anyone try out the app called Endel? Its one of those weird cross promotions with the Linkbuds S. Decided to give it a whirl as I like my weird spacey music and use binaural stuff for sleeping all the time. So far it's pretty impressive. I used it for my power walk and it quickly adjusted the music to match my walk cadence and then jazzed it up from there. I have been using it once I got back to the office to focus and its helped at that too. So will be playing with it over the next few days while its free to see if I am willing to spend cash on it per month/year...


----------



## dweaver

Looking ks like I might not wait a month for the Space A40 just recieved notice they are shipping. It still say September 26 for delivery but hopefully that will change soon. 

Fingers crossed.


----------



## jant71

Aviot is yet another brand going "open". They are doing 2 models. I like this one better at least how it looks. https://aviot.jp/product/te-s1/


----------



## trivik12

VICosPhi said:


> Got the Galaxy Buds 2 Pro and these sound really good. A lot better than Galaxy Buds Pro IMO. Sadly these use the proprietary tips. The tips are round in shape but they have a very short stem so no third party tips compatibility.
> 
> The bud size is on the smaller side so these are comfortable in ear but without custom tips, it's not a great experience for me. Sound is very balanced with good sub bass. Vocals are forward and treble is just enough. Phone call quality is very good as well. Transparency is very very good, ANC is acceptable and on part with most good buds.
> 
> Touch controls are ok for ANC and tracks, but suck for volume control as you have to touch the tip and enable this in advanced settings in the app.


I got it as part of combo deal with flip 4 and watch 5 and I managed to replace tips with spinfit cp1025. Its a definite upgrade for sure. I am amazed by sound quality as I have also Jabra Elite 75T. That said I much rather have buttons on 75T than touch controls on GBUDS 2 pro. its very inconvinient especially during jogs/workouts.


----------



## clerkpalmer

trivik12 said:


> I got it as part of combo deal with flip 4 and watch 5 and I managed to replace tips with spinfit cp1025. Its a definite upgrade for sure. I am amazed by sound quality as I have also Jabra Elite 75T. That said I much rather have buttons on 75T than touch controls on GBUDS 2 pro. its very inconvinient especially during jogs/workouts.


how would you say these would fit for a workout? Any issues staying put?


----------



## MarkParity

smuh said:


> Anybody got the OPPO Enco X2 incoming? The dynamic + planar driver combo, LDAC etc. sounds very interesting.
> That being said, Huawei's FreeBuds Pro 2 may be worth a listen too...


I got the Oppo Enco X2 recently, 100% recommended for sound and connectivity to my Oppo phone. The connection defaults to LHDC a CODEC that doesn't connect at all with other devices I've tried connecting the phone to which is odd.

Oppo TWS and Oppo phone just works perfectly, who would have thought it but it is something other manufacturers have got wrong before.


----------



## BooleanBones

For the B&O EX owners. In case you haven't yet or did not know, if you register your headphones in the app, it extends the warranty to three years.


----------



## dj24

Tommy C said:


> Yeah man! The evolve2 65 with the boom mic lol
> I can literally sit on the beach and have a work call without people knowing. They are that good 😎





Tommy C said:


> It’s a fine product. Not my go-to but it’s a great set. The battery life is ridiculously long which is a huge plus for me when I’m on Zoom calls all day.
> Problem is they sit over the ears but I’m not loving it and they look a bit too goofy.


Interesting.  I use the Jabra link 380 dongle as well   Do you see a huge difference in background noise cancellation capabilities between professional headsets like your Evolve 2 and the best call quality TWS' out there or has the gap narrowed?  I'm on Jabra VOIP work calls 8-10 hours daily and I'm trying to balance comfort (not having anything heavy or over the head) vs the occasional background sound leakage (really rare since I work in a quiet environment overall).  

I've just been spoilt with the absolute comfort and the feeling of having nothing in your ears with TWS in general the last couple of years that every time I put on regular over the ear headphones I tend to take them off right away and reach for my TWS instead...


----------



## ac3knight

Noble FoKus Pro owners - quick question. If my buds are paired but I'm not sent any audio through them (or if I paused the music), the buds will flash a white light every few seconds.

Just wondering if this is the same for everyone else? Is there an option to turn off this white light flashing? Thanks


----------



## james444

MarkParity said:


> I got the Oppo Enco X2 recently, 100% recommended for sound and connectivity to my Oppo phone. The connection defaults to LHDC a CODEC that doesn't connect at all with other devices I've tried connecting the phone to which is odd.
> 
> Oppo TWS and Oppo phone just works perfectly, who would have thought it but it is something other manufacturers have got wrong before.



Oppo Enco X2 sound excellent and to my ears better than the Huawei Freebuds Pro 2. But prospective buyers need to be aware that the largest included tips are rather small and you can't use third party tips, due to a vent hole in the nozzle and a matching notch in the Oppo tips that other tips don't have. Bad design decision imo.


----------



## ldo77

I've just received L3P.
After changing from soudcore sound to flat, via APP, these sound very good, not better than my Sennheiser CX thrue, but different with more basses and high extension.


----------



## Tommy C (Aug 30, 2022)

dj24 said:


> Interesting.  I use the Jabra link 380 dongle as well   Do you see a huge difference in background noise cancellation capabilities between professional headsets like your Evolve 2 and the best call quality TWS' out there or has the gap narrowed?  I'm on Jabra VOIP work calls 8-10 hours daily and I'm trying to balance comfort (not having anything heavy or over the head) vs the occasional background sound leakage (really rare since I work in a quiet environment overall).
> 
> I've just been spoilt with the absolute comfort and the feeling of having nothing in your ears with TWS in general the last couple of years that every time I put on regular over the ear headphones I tend to take them off right away and reach for my TWS instead





dj24 said:


> Interesting.  I use the Jabra link 380 dongle as well   Do you see a huge difference in background noise cancellation capabilities between professional headsets like your Evolve 2 and the best call quality TWS' out there or has the gap narrowed?  I'm on Jabra VOIP work calls 8-10 hours daily and I'm trying to balance comfort (not having anything heavy or over the head) vs the occasional background sound leakage (really rare since I work in a quiet environment overall).
> 
> I've just been spoilt with the absolute comfort and the feeling of having nothing in your ears with TWS in general the last couple of years that every time I put on regular over the ear headphones I tend to take them off right away and reach for my TWS instead...



In terms of background noise I find the Jabra headset to be much less sensitive to background noises.
A couple of scenarios that I had experienced;
1. Construction across the street while on a work call.   On the Jabra I asked if they hear the loud construction noise and they all said not at all while using a couple of different TWS people where telling me I sounded clear but with too much background noise.
2. Phone calls while doing dishes. Using the Jabra was barely noticeable for my coworkers while very loud and noticeable using TWS.

All in all I feel the Jabra headset doesn’t amplify background noises as much while some TWS do it big time so when they pick up your voice it’s not muffled.
Also, the Jabra mic is positioned very close to the mouth. I can almost whisper and people still hear while on calls.
I hope this helps.


----------



## scubaphish

ac3knight said:


> Noble FoKus Pro owners - quick question. If my buds are paired but I'm not sent any audio through them (or if I paused the music), the buds will flash a white light every few seconds.
> 
> Just wondering if this is the same for everyone else? Is there an option to turn off this white light flashing? Thanks


I haven’t found a way to turn off any lights (unfortunately)


----------



## scubaphish

Apologies if this is asked and answered, but I did search the thread for Fokus and EX and while some Pro comparisons, didn’t see anything about Fokus H ANC vs EX.  Thoughts?
If I wanted to replace my Fokus Pro for something with more bells and whistles, which one do you think? Thanks

Edit: and yes, might just get both and send one back.


----------



## BooleanBones

scubaphish said:


> Apologies if this is asked and answered, but I did search the thread for Fokus and EX and while some Pro comparisons, didn’t see anything about Fokus H ANC vs EX.  Thoughts?
> If I wanted to replace my Fokus Pro for something with more bells and whistles, which one do you think? Thanks
> 
> Edit: and yes, might just get both and send one back.


Not had/heard the ANCs yet, so can't compare for you


----------



## scubaphish

BooleanBones said:


> Not had/heard the ANCs yet, so can't compare for you


I’m surprised you’re willing to come right out and admit that 🤣 😂


----------



## BooleanBones

scubaphish said:


> I’m surprised you’re willing to come right out and admit that 🤣 😂


Been totally absorbed with my iem/balanced cable combos lately. Hard to admit, but generally content and my wallet loves it.


----------



## jant71

Just got an email from BOSE....



That new smaller TWS??


----------



## voicemaster

So I just arrived in Singapore and I tested the galaxy buds2 pro and soundcore A40 on my 16 hours flight. Here is the conclusion that I get:
Galaxy buds2 pro:
+ ANC - very good in blocking engine and cabin noise.
+ Ambiance mode - very natural sound
- Battery life is quite short

Soundcore A40:
+ Sound quality - very airy and quite natural sounding. Easy to tweak in the app.
+ Battery life - longer than gbuds2 pro
- ANC - can still hear cabin and engine noise even at the max ANC
- Ambiance mode sounds quite metallic


----------



## jant71

voicemaster said:


> So I just arrived in Singapore and I tested the galaxy buds2 pro and soundcore A40 on my 16 hours flight. Here is the conclusion that I get:
> Galaxy buds2 pro:
> + ANC - very good in blocking engine and cabin noise.
> + Ambiance mode - very natural sound
> ...


You forgot buds2 Pro SQ.


----------



## voicemaster

jant71 said:


> You forgot buds2 Pro SQ.


Oh it is just okay. I am using "clear" eq in the app.


----------



## cresny

james444 said:


> Oppo Enco X2 sound excellent and to my ears better than the Huawei Freebuds Pro 2. But prospective buyers need to be aware that the largest included tips are rather small and you can't use third party tips, due to a vent hole in the nozzle and a matching notch in the Oppo tips that other tips don't have. Bad design decision imo.


Interesting. It seems the Oppos are a hardware clone of the FreeBuds Pro 2, which don't have that port. The port looks to be around the tweeter planar. Not sure what that means acoustically but if you think they better than the FBP2s then it must mean something. Looking at the tips, it's more of a notch than a hole, so I guess you could take a pair of scissors to any tips you might have. There are no retention grooves around the notch so I'm not sure how well it will hold, but if the stock tips do hold then I can't see why a doctored pair would not.


----------



## erockg

BooleanBones said:


> Not had/heard the ANCs yet, so can't compare for you





scubaphish said:


> I’m surprised you’re willing to come right out and admit that 🤣 😂


Personally, I prefer my EX over the H-ANC.  The bells and whistles make me pick them up more.


----------



## erockg (Aug 30, 2022)

voicemaster said:


> So I just arrived in Singapore and I tested the galaxy buds2 pro and soundcore A40 on my 16 hours flight. Here is the conclusion that I get:
> Galaxy buds2 pro:
> + ANC - very good in blocking engine and cabin noise.
> + Ambiance mode - very natural sound
> ...


I got a heavily discounted pair of GB2P with my Fold4 and have decided to return the A40.  Great price, but prefer the size and fit of the GB2P.  I'm EQing them to Bass Boost and can't complain.  Free helps.  Put some Azla tips on them and they fit great.


----------



## Luke Skywalker

BooleanBones said:


> Been totally absorbed with my iem/balanced cable combos lately. Hard to admit, but generally content and my wallet loves it.


What combos are you using?  I’m using my JH Lola with a new moon audio silver balanced cable going to an iFi gryphon. I’m returning the Euclids to Bloom and thinking about either the Vision EXT or the MEST indigo


----------



## BooleanBones

Luke Skywalker said:


> What combos are you using?  I’m using my JH Lola with a new moon audio silver balanced cable going to an iFi gryphon. I’m returning the Euclids to Bloom and thinking about either the Vision EXT or the MEST indigo


I have been using the balanced that came with my IE600s on my Technics to see if I like over the ear with them, but will be swapping them to a Brise cable in a week or two. The IE600s sound really good on my TW2 adapters, so have been using those wireless the last week or so (trying to find a good ear tip combo for @erockg )


----------



## Luke Skywalker (Aug 30, 2022)

Wow nice. I’m giving my ears a break for a few days. Even at 70 db with plenty of breaks I occasionally get a faint ringing

I have the Monarch Mk2 hooked up to the UTWS5 adapters. I like the sound of them wired But not as much as the Lola for whatever reason

I’d love to get the UM Indigo but I’ve not had much luck buying a used pair. It’s either drop $2,699 on a new pair of maybe go for the Vision EXT


----------



## BooleanBones

Luke Skywalker said:


> Wow nice. I’m giving my ears a break for a few days. Even at 70 db with plenty of breaks I occasionally get a faint ringing
> 
> I have the Monarch Mk2 hooked up to the UTWS5 adapters. I like the sound of them wired But not as much as the Lola for whatever reason
> 
> I’d love to get the UM Indigo but I’ve not had much luck buying a used pair. It’s either drop $2,699 on a new pair of maybe go for the Vision EXT


I probably sacrifice sound for size and portability. I am trying to keep everything small, light, and comfortable in my old age lol


----------



## BooleanBones

erockg said:


> My IE600s may be on the way out.  They're not getting love.  My Moondrop S8 fit me so much better.  I've tried so many tips on the Sennies and they just keep pushing out. Granted, I'm not using wires, never will, only the adapters .  I've tried almost ever tip under the sun.  One last effort today with some LL Final tips


Doing some experimenting for you on this with tips. So far, the Standard Sedna Earfit seal pretty good using the same angled adapters you have. Once positioned/set in your ears, I find the TW2s keep them there a bit better that the UTSW5s. I guess if you haven't flipped them yet


----------



## EMINENT

erockg said:


> I got a free pair of GB2P with my Fold4 and have decided to return the A40.  Great price, but prefer the size and fit of the GB2P.  I'm EQing them to Bass Boost and can't complain.  Free helps.  Put some Azla tips on them and they fit great.


How off are they from the EX? I just got my EX in yesterday and spent about an hour listening.


----------



## erockg

BooleanBones said:


> Doing some experimenting for you on this with tips. So far, the Standard Sedna Earfit seal pretty good using the same angled adapters you have. Once positioned/set in your ears, I find the TW2s keep them there a bit better that the UTSW5s. I guess if you haven't flipped them yet


I did!  Tried the Azla collection.  Everything keeps sliding out.  Been using my Moondrop S8 mostly on the TW2 Gen 2.


----------



## BooleanBones

erockg said:


> I did!  Tried the Azla collection.  Everything keeps sliding out.  Been using my Moondrop S8 mostly on the TW2 Gen 2.


The TW2s are just built and thought out nicely. I actually took some zoom calls today with my IE600s and loved it.


----------



## erockg

EMINENT said:


> How off are they from the EX? I just got my EX in yesterday and spent about an hour listening.


How far off are the GB2P against the EX?  Oh, EX are better for sure.  But for a small pair of buds that are easy to throw in your pockets and go -- the GB2P are great.  ANC is better on them than the EX, but I haven't gone back and forth with them to confirm.  Again, I got them cheap.  $32.  So that makes them sound even better .


----------



## erockg

BooleanBones said:


> The TW2s are just built and thought out nicely. I actually took some zoom calls today with my IE600s and loved it.


They really are.  I have my MDS8 on them with a mini 2pin adapter.  Fit, form and function is flawless.  Zero issues here.  I'm working through an over the ear headphone bug right now though.  Ugh.


----------



## Fleeple

voicemaster said:


> So I just arrived in Singapore and I tested the galaxy buds2 pro and soundcore A40 on my 16 hours flight. Here is the conclusion that I get:
> Galaxy buds2 pro:
> + ANC - very good in blocking engine and cabin noise.
> + Ambiance mode - very natural sound
> ...


Interesting.....i agree on the anc 100%, but my ambient has quickly become a reason I would return them. Has your experience been a common one, or is mine the weird one?


----------



## voicemaster

Fleeple said:


> Interesting.....i agree on the anc 100%, but my ambient has quickly become a reason I would return them. Has your experience been a common one, or is mine the weird one?


It is natural but not super hearing like my buds pro.


----------



## ac3knight

scubaphish said:


> I haven’t found a way to turn off any lights (unfortunately)


But is it normal for the Noble FoKus Pro to have intermittent flashing lights while connected but not streaming any audio to it? Just looking to figure out if my set is performing normally.

Also, the sound quality especially the separation, imaging, depth and width are top class.

What is miss is ambient mode but thus far, I don't think any TWS with ANC/ambient mode has sound quality that compares with the FoKus Pro (especially the depth and width of soundstage)...


----------



## james444

cresny said:


> Interesting. It seems the Oppos are a hardware clone of the FreeBuds Pro 2, which don't have that port. The port looks to be around the tweeter planar. Not sure what that means acoustically but if you think they better than the FBP2s then it must mean something. Looking at the tips, it's more of a notch than a hole, so I guess you could take a pair of scissors to any tips you might have. There are no retention grooves around the notch so I'm not sure how well it will hold, but if the stock tips do hold then I can't see why a doctored pair would not.



I suspected the same thing (Enco X2 being a possible clone of Freebuds Pro 2), but the teardowns at qucox show that it's an entirely different hybrid driver:
https://www.qucox.com/huawei-freebuds-pro-2-teardown/
https://www.qucox.com/oppo-enco-x2-teardown/

The Oppo/Dynaudio driver is second generation, as they already had a DD/planar hybrid in the first gen Enco X. Btw, the latter had the front vent in the housing, much better design choice imo.

To my subjective ears, the Oppo X2 sound definitely classier than the Freebuds Pro 2, both smoother and higher resolving. I would have kept them if I could have found a solution for large tips, alas I didn't. It's not only about the problem of modding third party tips with a notch, what's making things worse and your options very limited, is the fact that included tips are very thin and there's only just enough space in the case to accommodate those. Every large third party tip I tried, even if it might have fit the nozzle somehow, turned out to be too large for the case.


----------



## Caipirina

jant71 said:


> Just got an email from BOSE....
> 
> That new smaller TWS??


Oh how nice!!!   I was just googling around if there is anything new ... only to come across the usual collection of regurgitated puff pieces with gems like this one:




Sorry if the author (Nick Pino) is here, but I doubt it .. someone who thinks the Bose QC earbuds and the Galaxy Beans are similar in design has obviously never tried them   Good luck shoving the Bose into the ears like the Beans  

Now the question is how quick the first hype reviews will crown them the new ANC kings ... and how quickly my local amazon has them


----------



## scubaphish

ac3knight said:


> But is it normal for the Noble FoKus Pro to have intermittent flashing lights while connected but not streaming any audio to it? Just looking to figure out if my set is performing normally.
> 
> Also, the sound quality especially the separation, imaging, depth and width are top class.
> 
> What is miss is ambient mode but thus far, I don't think any TWS with ANC/ambient mode has sound quality that compares with the FoKus Pro (especially the depth and width of soundstage)...


I understand now; I’m getting mine back today or tomorrow. Can check it out then. 
Agreed on transparency, the one thing I really miss having


----------



## cattboy

C_Lindbergh said:


> The new Audio Technics


Which model #?


----------



## cattboy

New JBL TWS

The JBL Tour PRO 2 and the JBL Tour ONE M2 will be available in Black and Champagne from January 2023 on JBL.com for €249 and €299 respectively.

https://news.jbl.com/en-CEU/217264-...ro-2-true-wireless-and-tour-one-m2-headphones


----------



## ldo77

Does someone know if eq settings, changed via Soundcore APP, are kept in other device/player (shanling M0, for me).


----------



## james444

ldo77 said:


> Does someone know if eq settings, changed via Soundcore APP, are kept in other device/player (shanling M0, for me).


I don't have experience with the Soundcore in particular, but these TWS apps usually change in-device DSP and should result in the same effect, regardless of source.

EQ changes made should even persist after you uninstall the app.


----------



## Ceeluh7

erockg said:


> I got a heavily discounted pair of GB2P with my Fold4 and have decided to return the A40.  Great price, but prefer the size and fit of the GB2P.  I'm EQing them to Bass Boost and can't complain.  Free helps.  Put some Azla tips on them and they fit great.


How are you liking the fold4 man? I am going this week to trade in and was debating getting that or the s22 ultra


----------



## C_Lindbergh

cattboy said:


> Which model #?


----------



## clerkpalmer

Ceeluh7 said:


> How are you liking the fold4 man? I am going this week to trade in and was debating getting that or the s22 ultra


You didn't ask me but I'll answer as well.  I have tried all 4 folds and always end up eventually going back to a candy bar phone.  As I type this, I have my iphone 13 pro max and Fold 4 with me.  The biggest problem with the Fold - and one I haven't yet solved - is that the outer screen makes for a terrible phone which requires you to open the fold to get the most of it.  Once opened, it's better than a candybar phone but you have to force yourself to do this.  The front screen is just too narrow to be useful.  Technically it works but too many typos and missed clicks.  Oppo and others have solved for this by using a different form factor (wider and shorter) and I expect Samsung will eventually do the same.  That will be the winning combo that takes foldables to the next level.  In the meantime, if you can deal with that issue and commit yourself to using the inside screen, the Fold is amazing.


----------



## EMINENT

clerkpalmer said:


> You didn't ask me but I'll answer as well.  I have tried all 4 folds and always end up eventually going back to a candy bar phone.  As I type this, I have my iphone 13 pro max and Fold 4 with me.  The biggest problem with the Fold - and one I haven't yet solved - is that the outer screen makes for a terrible phone which requires you to open the fold to get the most of it.  Once opened, it's better than a candybar phone but you have to force yourself to do this.  The front screen is just too narrow to be useful.  Technically it works but too many typos and missed clicks.  Oppo and others have solved for this by using a different form factor (wider and shorter) and I expect Samsung will eventually do the same.  That will be the winning combo that takes foldables to the next level.  In the meantime, if you can deal with that issue and commit yourself to using the inside screen, the Fold is amazing.


Had 2 and now 3. This is why I skipped this version.


----------



## Ceeluh7

clerkpalmer said:


> You didn't ask me but I'll answer as well.  I have tried all 4 folds and always end up eventually going back to a candy bar phone.  As I type this, I have my iphone 13 pro max and Fold 4 with me.  The biggest problem with the Fold - and one I haven't yet solved - is that the outer screen makes for a terrible phone which requires you to open the fold to get the most of it.  Once opened, it's better than a candybar phone but you have to force yourself to do this.  The front screen is just too narrow to be useful.  Technically it works but too many typos and missed clicks.  Oppo and others have solved for this by using a different form factor (wider and shorter) and I expect Samsung will eventually do the same.  That will be the winning combo that takes foldables to the next level.  In the meantime, if you can deal with that issue and commit yourself to using the inside screen, the Fold is amazing.


Thank you so much man! Really! You answered the real question which was on my mind. I feel like 75% of the time I'd simply use the outer screen. The problem is I'd commit to the stinking thing if I didn't enjoy it. I've had every Samsung note phone up to the 10+ and so I was simply going to go to the ultra from that. However, that foldable looks very enticing and I was hoping that the 4th iteration would bring a nice usability. I'm still on the fence but you are the 1st person to answer this question who has actually had experience with the 4. Much APPRECIATED!


----------



## orskar (Aug 31, 2022)

Does anyone have any notable (good/bad) experiences with the battery wear on wireless iems? Or are there stated specs out there for what can be expected in general (ie max charging cycles)?

Quick web searches suggest the mass market airpods/etc seem struggle just lasting up to 2 years but I'd assume better brands would use better parts. Of course this sort of thing doesn't really get noted in reviews, since it requires regular use over time or a really technical review and most people only seem to come back to talk about wear if it was terrible.


Have been considering getting a Noble Fokus Pro for the sake of convenience when I'm out/working, as my current bluetooth dac/amp + wired iem set up is a bit of a hassle when I just want some background music and don't caring that much about quality (to a point...). 

With anything wireless though, my biggest concern is always how soon I'll need something new or repairs done and if I've not been too rough with the product, the battery is usually the first thing to go.

Going off my other rechargeable gear as an example, I expect to still see decent charge after 2 years and it should still be usable up to 3-4 years with the same batteries (and at that point some other part is worn down anyway). That's all based on larger batteries though, not sure if the smaller batteries in wireless iems don't perform as well currently.


----------



## clerkpalmer (Aug 31, 2022)

Ceeluh7 said:


> Thank you so much man! Really! You answered the real question which was on my mind. I feel like 75% of the time I'd simply use the outer screen. The problem is I'd commit to the stinking thing if I didn't enjoy it. I've had every Samsung note phone up to the 10+ and so I was simply going to go to the ultra from that. However, that foldable looks very enticing and I was hoping that the 4th iteration would bring a nice usability. I'm still on the fence but you are the 1st person to answer this question who has actually had experience with the 4. Much APPRECIATED!


On the plus side, candybar phones are boring and have reached their glass ceiling.  You can get a F4 on swappa for about $1200 which would keep you pretty safe resale wise if its not for you. The phone is very fun but I'm not yet convinced it's solving a problem that exists.  That said, I keep buying them so I guess the joke's on me.


----------



## clerkpalmer

orskar said:


> Does anyone have any notable (good/bad) experiences with the battery wear on wireless iems? Or are there stated specs out there for what can be expected in general (ie max charging cycles)?
> 
> Quick web searches suggest the mass market airpods/etc seem struggle just lasting up to 2 years but I'd assume better brands would use better parts. Of course this sort of thing doesn't really get noted in reviews, since it requires regular use over time or a really technical review and most people only seem to come back to talk about wear if it was terrible.
> 
> ...


I think you should consider TWS earbuds disposable.  The tech moves fast so yeah, 2 - 3 years sounds right but in 2 years you'll want to upgrade.  With something like the Fokus Pro at that price, it's a fair question to ask.  Most of us here will have moved past them in 2 years even at the high price.  That said, as you know, batteries don't fall off a cliff.  Even after 2 years and numerous charge cycles, you're probably looking at 80% capacity making them usable.  Not a direct answer to your question however I've never seen a TWS advertise charge cycles etc.  I don't think the size of the battery really matters.


----------



## Luke Skywalker

orskar said:


> Does anyone have any notable (good/bad) experiences with the battery wear on wireless iems? Or are there stated specs out there for what can be expected in general (ie max charging cycles)?
> 
> Quick web searches suggest the mass market airpods/etc seem struggle just lasting up to 2 years but I'd assume better brands would use better parts. Of course this sort of thing doesn't really get noted in reviews, since it requires regular use over time or a really technical review and most people only seem to come back to talk about wear if it was terrible.
> 
> ...


Hey so I have the Noble Fokus Pro but I don’t use it at the gym. The one I go to is noisy and although they sound insanely good, I prefer ANC for the gym. Klipsch Mcclaren today


----------



## Fleeple

voicemaster said:


> It is natural but not super hearing like my buds pro.


It's more like....mine hiss endlessly and interfere with the music itself. That isn't the norm then?


----------



## erockg

Ceeluh7 said:


> How are you liking the fold4 man? I am going this week to trade in and was debating getting that or the s22 ultra


Well, I'm completely immersed in the Apple ecosystem here.  I'm just getting bored with the iPhone.  Never had a Fold, did try the S22, not the Ultra.  Didn't like it as much as my iPhone.  Folds have alway intrigued me.  My friend traded her S22 Ultra for the Fold4 and she's in love.  I have to say, it's surprisingly powerful.  I have a iPhone 13 Pro too.  I'm setting my Fold up so I can use iMessages and sync all my Apple calendars, email, work email yada yada.  So far so good.  I think I'll keep it.  Can't seem to find a case I love.  Got the one with the S-Pen and I'm used to going naked.  May just say eff it and do a skin.  Also, got the GB2 Pro and they work flawlessly with it, as expected.  I have them connected to my iPhone and the Fold.  You just force pair them when you want to switch over.  Taps and gestures seem to work fine with the iPhone. 

Let me know what you decide.  I could use pointers, tricks and tips!


----------



## Ceeluh7

erockg said:


> Well, I'm completely immersed in the Apple ecosystem here.  I'm just getting bored with the iPhone.  Never had a Fold, did try the S22, not the Ultra.  Didn't like it as much as my iPhone.  Folds have alway intrigued me.  My friend traded her S22 Ultra for the Fold4 and she's in love.  I have to say, it's surprisingly powerful.  I have a iPhone 13 Pro too.  I'm setting my Fold up so I can use iMessages and sync all my Apple calendars, email, work email yada yada.  So far so good.  I think I'll keep it.  Can't seem to find a case I love.  Got the one with the S-Pen and I'm used to going naked.  May just say eff it and do a skin.  Also, got the GB2 Pro and they work flawlessly with it, as expected.  I have them connected to my iPhone and the Fold.  You just force pair them when you want to switch over.  Taps and gestures seem to work fine with the iPhone.
> 
> Let me know what you decide.  I could use pointers, tricks and tips!


Thanks bro... The GB2P is a nice lil add in also. Ya i appreciate that a lot. One thing I absolutely hate is the loss of external storage. I may have to get the 1 tb model. I like having all my music in one place. Oh well, maybe I'll join 2022 and start streaming... Lol. Thanks man


----------



## erockg

Ceeluh7 said:


> Thanks bro... The GB2P is a nice lil add in also. Ya i appreciate that a lot. One thing I absolutely hate is the loss of external storage. I may have to get the 1 tb model. I like having all my music in one place. Oh well, maybe I'll join 2022 and start streaming... Lol. Thanks man


I got the 512, but I do stream... a LOT.  My iPhone is 256 and that's served me well.  Home computer is a diff story.  Terabytes upon terabytes!


----------



## clerkpalmer

erockg said:


> Well, I'm completely immersed in the Apple ecosystem here.  I'm just getting bored with the iPhone.  Never had a Fold, did try the S22, not the Ultra.  Didn't like it as much as my iPhone.  Folds have alway intrigued me.  My friend traded her S22 Ultra for the Fold4 and she's in love.  I have to say, it's surprisingly powerful.  I have a iPhone 13 Pro too.  I'm setting my Fold up so I can use iMessages and sync all my Apple calendars, email, work email yada yada.  So far so good.  I think I'll keep it.  Can't seem to find a case I love.  Got the one with the S-Pen and I'm used to going naked.  May just say eff it and do a skin.  Also, got the GB2 Pro and they work flawlessly with it, as expected.  I have them connected to my iPhone and the Fold.  You just force pair them when you want to switch over.  Taps and gestures seem to work fine with the iPhone.
> 
> Let me know what you decide.  I could use pointers, tricks and tips!


My biggest problem is the battery TBH.  It's not really a Fold thing but an Android thing.  Apple has standby life for days but an Android will drain all day long no matter what you do to stop.  I'm charging my F4 now at 530 pm.  Off the charger at 730.  My IP would still be at 50 percent.  Welcome to the dark side Erockg.  I think you'll probably have a 14 pro max in your future (as will I) but for now it's fun.


----------



## nekonhime

clerkpalmer said:


> My biggest problem is the battery TBH.  It's not really a Fold thing but an Android thing.  Apple has standby life for days but an Android will drain all day long no matter what you do to stop.  I'm charging my F4 now at 530 pm.  Off the charger at 730.  My IP would still be at 50 percent.  Welcome to the dark side Erockg.  I think you'll probably have a 14 pro max in your future (as will I) but for now it's fun.


Thanks to the chip samsung made and design lol. The snap 888 series was a disaster for the heat and battery drain, 8 gen 1 were much worse, then the only slightly redemption was the 8 gen 1 plus as it improve the battery life and some heat issues.


----------



## erockg

clerkpalmer said:


> My biggest problem is the battery TBH.  It's not really a Fold thing but an Android thing.  Apple has standby life for days but an Android will drain all day long no matter what you do to stop.  I'm charging my F4 now at 530 pm.  Off the charger at 730.  My IP would still be at 50 percent.  Welcome to the dark side Erockg.  I think you'll probably have a 14 pro max in your future (as will I) but for now it's fun.


Did you change your refresh rate to 60?  My friend had an issue with battery, did that and now no issues.  I wfh so mine is around chargers all day.  Haven't had to do the real world test yet.  I don't know about the max, been there, but famous last words!  My wife is getting one day one.n  Now if there is ever an Apple Fold... I'm IN!  Knowing my insane self, I'll keep both phones.  What case are you using on your F4?


----------



## EMINENT (Sep 1, 2022)

erockg said:


> Well, I'm completely immersed in the Apple ecosystem here.  I'm just getting bored with the iPhone.  Never had a Fold, did try the S22, not the Ultra.  Didn't like it as much as my iPhone.  Folds have alway intrigued me.  My friend traded her S22 Ultra for the Fold4 and she's in love.  I have to say, it's surprisingly powerful.  I have a iPhone 13 Pro too.  I'm setting my Fold up so I can use iMessages and sync all my Apple calendars, email, work email yada yada.  So far so good.  I think I'll keep it.  Can't seem to find a case I love.  Got the one with the S-Pen and I'm used to going naked.  May just say eff it and do a skin.  Also, got the GB2 Pro and they work flawlessly with it, as expected.  I have them connected to my iPhone and the Fold.  You just force pair them when you want to switch over.  Taps and gestures seem to work fine with the iPhone.
> 
> Let me know what you decide.  I could use pointers, tricks and tips!



I went with a back skin and good tempered outside screen protector. I couldn't deal with the extra bulk of a case since I wear skinny fitting jeans. Just be careful with loose shorts and crouching as it'll slip out and you know what. Don't ask me how I know.

What is up with this crap B&O app though? The level for anc and transparency doesn't do anything and is stuck on 3. I hear an attenuation when I press it but cycling through i'm assuming the 3 levels and I can't even tell a difference. It's like a gimmick. Also, impossible to change the color too. The page only shows a save button with no way to select another.


----------



## clerkpalmer

erockg said:


> Did you change your refresh rate to 60?  My friend had an issue with battery, did that and now no issues.  I wfh so mine is around chargers all day.  Haven't had to do the real world test yet.  I don't know about the max, been there, but famous last words!  My wife is getting one day one.n  Now if there is ever an Apple Fold... I'm IN!  Knowing my insane self, I'll keep both phones.  What case are you using on your F4?


I was hoping to avoid changing the refresh rate because I don't feel like I should have to nerf an $1800 phone but yes, that will absolutely add some battery life.  Right now, the crappy samsung case that came with it.  It's garbage.  I have a latercase on order.  But there's no such thing as a good fold case in any event.  I can't keep them both - one has to go.


----------



## Fleeple

erockg said:


> Well, I'm completely immersed in the Apple ecosystem here.  I'm just getting bored with the iPhone.  Never had a Fold, did try the S22, not the Ultra.  Didn't like it as much as my iPhone.  Folds have alway intrigued me.  My friend traded her S22 Ultra for the Fold4 and she's in love.  I have to say, it's surprisingly powerful.  I have a iPhone 13 Pro too.  I'm setting my Fold up so I can use iMessages and sync all my Apple calendars, email, work email yada yada.  So far so good.  I think I'll keep it.  Can't seem to find a case I love.  Got the one with the S-Pen and I'm used to going naked.  May just say eff it and do a skin.  Also, got the GB2 Pro and they work flawlessly with it, as expected.  I have them connected to my iPhone and the Fold.  You just force pair them when you want to switch over.  Taps and gestures seem to work fine with the iPhone.
> 
> Let me know what you decide.  I could use pointers, tricks and tips!


I will say dbrand is releasing one at some point


----------



## clerkpalmer

nekonhime said:


> Thanks to the chip samsung made and design lol. The snap 888 series was a disaster for the heat and battery drain, 8 gen 1 were much worse, then the only slightly redemption was the 8 gen 1 plus as it improve the battery life and some heat issues.


From what I can tell, the F4 is better than the F3 but still not good enough.  It may get a little better when things stabilize.  I'm not a huge fan of midday charging but it's basically part of life with this phone.  Some people don't mind it but my iphone has spoiled me. Except the iphone is boring AF.


----------



## Luke Skywalker (Aug 31, 2022)

erockg said:


> Well, I'm completely immersed in the Apple ecosystem here.  I'm just getting bored with the iPhone.  Never had a Fold, did try the S22, not the Ultra.  Didn't like it as much as my iPhone.  Folds have alway intrigued me.  My friend traded her S22 Ultra for the Fold4 and she's in love.  I have to say, it's surprisingly powerful.  I have a iPhone 13 Pro too.  I'm setting my Fold up so I can use iMessages and sync all my Apple calendars, email, work email yada yada.  So far so good.  I think I'll keep it.  Can't seem to find a case I love.  Got the one with the S-Pen and I'm used to going naked.  May just say eff it and do a skin.  Also, got the GB2 Pro and they work flawlessly with it, as expected.  I have them connected to my iPhone and the Fold.  You just force pair them when you want to switch over.  Taps and gestures seem to work fine with the iPhone.
> 
> Let me know what you decide.  I could use pointers, tricks and tips!


Very cool! I didn’t realize you could use iMessage on a non-Apple device.

I use Apple for phone, watch and iPad but I’m kind of stuck with Windows for my work PC and personal machines. I have a Mac but it’s too hard to break the habits from ~35 years of using Microsoft DOS and then Windows


----------



## nekonhime

clerkpalmer said:


> From what I can tell, the F4 is better than the F3 but still not good enough.  It may get a little better when things stabilize.  I'm not a huge fan of midday charging but it's basically part of life with this phone.  Some people don't mind it but my iphone has spoiled me. Except the iphone is boring AF.


I gave up iphone long ago due to their ridicule service. Now I have to give my hope to the tsmc with their 8 gen 2 chip if they are able to fix the heat issue and improve the battery life like the 865 or 855 which last me for days even if I play heavy game like hi3 and genshin.


----------



## SynaestheticA

I wouldn't expect What Hifi to know about every TWS out there and every crowdfunding campaign but claiming that the JBL have the first smart charge case is pretty sloppy. Morph has had this in the works for close to 2 years now. Although they'd have to get them all shipped out for me to come to their defense.

JBL - https://www.whathifi.com/news/jbl-t...-and-has-the-worlds-first-smart-charging-case

Morph - https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/morph-seamlessly-switch-audio-across-all-devices#/

I have a feeling a lot of the people on the Morph campaign are going to feel dirty on this since the design change of the case made it a little bulkier and less smooth, while the JBL is a little more true to the original vision



Original Morph



Current Morph



 JBL Tour Pro (Jan 2023 release)

Anyway I'm sure the Kashfia and the gang over at Whatthehifi got their JBBucks for the write up. Might get the Tour Pro for a comparison when the Morph finally arrvies.


----------



## Luke Skywalker

nekonhime said:


> I gave up iphone long ago due to their ridicule service. Now I have to give my hope to the tsmc with their 8 gen 2 chip if they are able to fix the heat issue and improve the battery life like the 865 or 855 which last me for days even if I play heavy game like hi3 and genshin.


I wonder what will happen if China invades Taiwan. I could see the whole world being cut off from TSMC chips


----------



## voicemaster

Fleeple said:


> It's more like....mine hiss endlessly and interfere with the music itself. That isn't the norm then?


Yeah thats not what sound with mine. Mine is very quiet with no hiss but it doesn't boost the sound. I heard barely any artificial sound only when there is a quite a strong wind.


----------



## erockg

EMINENT said:


> I went with a back skin and good tempered outside screen protector. I couldn't deal with the extra bulk of a case since I wear skinny fitting jeans. Just be careful with loose shorts and crouching as it'll slip out and you what. Don't ask me how I know.
> 
> What is up with this crap B&O app though. The level for anc and transparency doesn't do anything and is stuck on 3. I hear an attenuation when I press it but cycling through i'm assuming the 3 levels and I can't even tell a difference. It's like a gimmick. Also, impossible to change the color too. The page only shows a save button with no way to select another.


Yeah, change the tips.  Azla work well for me but ANC is not very good on the EX.

Thinking about a dBrand leather skin on mine.  Also, adding a magsafe sticker so all my magsafe accessories don't go unused.


----------



## erockg

clerkpalmer said:


> I was hoping to avoid changing the refresh rate because I don't feel like I should have to nerf an $1800 phone but yes, that will absolutely add some battery life.  Right now, the crappy samsung case that came with it.  It's garbage.  I have a latercase on order.  But there's no such thing as a good fold case in any event.  I can't keep them both - one has to go.


Agreed re: cost.  We shouldn't have to change the refresh rate.  I bought a knock off Latercase/carbon fiber and it'll be here tomorrow.  I'll report back if it's great.  Still leaning towards a skin.  Great phone though.  So far I'm digging it.


----------



## erockg

Fleeple said:


> I will say dbrand is releasing one at some point


Leather and reg skin!  I've been all over it .  I actually have carbon fiber skin here and may try and cut one myself.


----------



## erockg

Luke Skywalker said:


> Very cool! I didn’t realize you could use iMessage on a non-Apple device.
> 
> I use Apple for phone, watch and iPad but I’m kind of stuck with Windows for my work PC and personal machines. I have a Mac but it’s too hard to break the habits from ~35 years of using Microsoft DOS and then Windows


I finally got my company to give me a mac.  Then we got bought and the new owner gave us new MacBook pros here.  Too many computers here right now!  Mac is easier when dealing with av files all day.

Been using Airmessage for iMessages on an Android phone.  You need to run a server app on your Mac, but they seem to keep it updated and running smooth so far.


----------



## erockg

clerkpalmer said:


> From what I can tell, the F4 is better than the F3 but still not good enough.  It may get a little better when things stabilize.  I'm not a huge fan of midday charging but it's basically part of life with this phone.  Some people don't mind it but my iphone has spoiled me. Except the iphone is boring AF.


I'll post some pics (I know it's the wrong place) when I get my Magsafe on the Fold setup working.


----------



## Luke Skywalker

erockg said:


> I finally got my company to give me a mac.  Then we got bought and the new owner gave us new MacBook pros here.  Too many computers here right now!  Mac is easier when dealing with av files all day.
> 
> Been using Airmessage for iMessages on an Android phone.  You need to run a server app on your Mac, but they seem to keep it updated and running smooth so far.


Wow that’s pimp… I’m in need of a new desktop machine and the  Mac Studio is so tempting even though I don’t need that kind of power


----------



## nekonhime

Luke Skywalker said:


> I wonder what will happen if China invades Taiwan. I could see the whole world being cut off from TSMC chips


Nah, they will just rebrand TSMC with another name. On another hand, Netherland might be able to sell their chip making machines to China as the US power keep decline like this.


----------



## Luke Skywalker

nekonhime said:


> Nah, they will just rebrand TSMC with another name. On another hand, Netherland might be able to sell their chip making machines to China as the US power keep decline like this.


Ya those UV machines are really fascinating. They could pull the plug on China and they’d be totally screwed and stuck on like 10 nm


----------



## nekonhime

Luke Skywalker said:


> Ya those UV machines are really fascinating. They could pull the plug on China and they’d be totally screwed and stuck on like 10 nm


Maybe, but China already succeed in the 7nm some time ago, so if they are over take the Taiwan, they will be able to control the large part of the  Pacific ocean which will affect the ships and shipping to the US + the technology. Korea will also become a war zone if China complete their reunion with Taiwan (more techs from South Korea for China as they have the cooperative relationships with North Korea) and don't forget about India with their high skills on computer and programs.


----------



## Fleeple

voicemaster said:


> Yeah thats not what sound with mine. Mine is very quiet with no hiss but it doesn't boost the sound. I heard barely any artificial sound only when there is a quite a strong wind.


Guess it's my bad luck again; thank you 😄


----------



## orskar

clerkpalmer said:


> I think you should consider TWS earbuds disposable. The tech moves fast so yeah, 2 - 3 years sounds right but in 2 years you'll want to upgrade. With something like the Fokus Pro at that price, it's a fair question to ask. Most of us here will have moved past them in 2 years even at the high price. That said, as you know, batteries don't fall off a cliff. Even after 2 years and numerous charge cycles, you're probably looking at 80% capacity making them usable. Not a direct answer to your question however I've never seen a TWS advertise charge cycles etc. I don't think the size of the battery really matters.



Hm, I figured that might be the case.

The Fokus Pro's price is still in the price range of what I would consider disposable for 2 years anyway. Probably spend the same on replacement cables in the same amount of time.



Luke Skywalker said:


> Hey so I have the Noble Fokus Pro but I don’t use it at the gym. The one I go to is noisy and although they sound insanely good, I prefer ANC for the gym. Klipsch Mcclaren today



I was actually thinking about Noble's new H-ANC as an additional gym/running option if the Fokus is impressive, have just been using a cheaper iem so I can not worry about moisture and not have to be as careful about the cable catching on anything. Fokus Pro would be more when I'm in the office and want to tune out the chatter and radio a bit (need to still hear the phone though) and also while commuting and not having to fiddle with cables and an amp in a pocket (especially in summer weather when I'm not wearing a coat)


----------



## SynaestheticA

Luke Skywalker said:


> I wonder what will happen if China invades Taiwan. I could see the whole world being cut off from TSMC chips


No more TWS? Forget freedom, keep Taiwan safe!!


----------



## helmutcheese (Sep 1, 2022)

Edifier launches the W240TN piston-inspired earbuds.​
*Main features: *


Dual Dynamic Drivers (Φ6mm+Φ10mm)
Bluetooth 5.3
8.5-hour playback + 17 hours with charging case
Eye-catching metallic design inspired by a piston-head
Hybrid ANC
Compatible with the Edifier Connect App
Dedicated low latency gaming mode
Ambient ANC mode
IP55 water resistant and sweat proof
*AI DNN call *noise cancellation technology
Push-button controls

https://techbuzzireland.com/2022/08/24/edifier-launches-the-w240tn-piston-inspired-earbuds/



*Gamesky:*




*CEONTHEMAKING*





*Amazon:*

About this item:

Better Sound All-Around: Each earbud harnesses 10mm and 6mm dual dynamic drivers for the complete sound experience you've been searching for.
Extended Playtime: The earbuds provide over 8 hours of high-quality music (or 7 hours with ANC on). Total playtime is around 25 hours with the charging case (or 21 with ANC on).
Fast Charging: Charge for just 10 minutes on-the-go and enjoy 2 hours of music.
Effective ANC: Sharply cuts background noise (by 38dB) so you can focus on your music.
Safe & Sound: Switch to ambient sound when you want to remain aware of your surroundings or even have a conversation. Great for commuting, travel, and outdoor exercise.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0B2PGF9VD


----------



## FYLegend

How well does the Space A40 respond to third-party EQ like Wavelet? The Liberty 3 Pro is terrible as even though the tuning is good with Wavelet, it clips badly unless I crank up the limiter and turn down the volume.

Has anyone tried Galaxy Buds 2 Pro on an older Galaxy phone like the Note 9 or S9? I had some issues with the Buds 2 and Buds+ where the scalable codec was decreasing the bitrate especially when WiFi was active, and I could hear the treble compress or double up in certain tracks. It doesn't happen with AAC but Galaxy Buds always default to scalable on Samsung devices. I don't think I will be upgrading from my Note 9 just yet but this is one issue that holds me back from getting the Buds 2 Pro.



ldo77 said:


> I've just received L3P.
> After changing from soudcore sound to flat, via APP, these sound very good, not better than my Sennheiser CX thrue, but different with more basses and high extension.


I get the opposite result, after a few months of using my own EQ setting I realized how much less of a thump and soundstage I was getting with custom EQ compared to Soundcores "Signature" preset. I didn't change much except raise the mids and turned down the upper mid-bass.


----------



## Devodonaldson

Ceeluh7 said:


> Thank you so much man! Really! You answered the real question which was on my mind. I feel like 75% of the time I'd simply use the outer screen. The problem is I'd commit to the stinking thing if I didn't enjoy it. I've had every Samsung note phone up to the 10+ and so I was simply going to go to the ultra from that. However, that foldable looks very enticing and I was hoping that the 4th iteration would bring a nice usability. I'm still on the fence but you are the 1st person to answer this question who has actually had experience with the 4. Much APPRECIATED!


Just to give a different perspective.  I have the fold 2 and have been using it since release.  This is the first phone in over 10 years through I have kept over a year.  I usually get bored and move to something different that may handle a different set of my needs/ desires in a phone.  Phone,  tablet,  book,  comic book reader,  video player, mobile game machine...I love the fold.  I actually use the outer screen about 80% of the time.  I don't have a problem typing much.  The swipe to text works very well and you can add your personal words to your personal library.  I may get the 5, but I'm still happy 2 generations later, and that has never happened with a phone. I can't see myself going back to another "candy bar"


----------



## scubaphish (Sep 1, 2022)

ac3knight said:


> But is it normal for the Noble FoKus Pro to have intermittent flashing lights while connected but not streaming any audio to it? Just looking to figure out if my set is performing normally.
> 
> Also, the sound quality especially the separation, imaging, depth and width are top class.
> 
> What is miss is ambient mode but thus far, I don't think any TWS with ANC/ambient mode has sound quality that compares with the FoKus Pro (especially the depth and width of soundstage)...


Got my replacement set and they don’t seem to blink as much. Almost feels like a different firmware than my last set.

Edit: just took out of ears with music off and they are definitely blinking


----------



## ac3knight

scubaphish said:


> Got my replacement set and they don’t seem to blink as much. Almost feels like a different firmware than my last set.
> 
> Edit: just took out of ears with music off and they are definitely blinking


Ok thanks. Think it's probably the standard LED programming then (blinks white every 7 secs when connected but with no audio streaming to it).


----------



## Luke Skywalker

orskar said:


> Hm, I figured that might be the case.
> 
> The Fokus Pro's price is still in the price range of what I would consider disposable for 2 years anyway. Probably spend the same on replacement cables in the same amount of time.
> 
> ...


I use my B&O EQ a lot at the gym too but even with foam tips it’s tricky to keep them on my ears


----------



## ldo77

ldo77 said:


> I've just received L3P.
> After changing from soudcore sound to flat, via APP, these sound very good, not better than my Sennheiser CX thrue, but different with more basses and high extension.


I began to play with pro EQ.
Amazing all the different kind EQ, the APP propose.
Now, I'm on the Alex Pasco EQ...


----------



## erockg

clerkpalmer said:


> You didn't ask me but I'll answer as well.  I have tried all 4 folds and always end up eventually going back to a candy bar phone.  As I type this, I have my iphone 13 pro max and Fold 4 with me.  The biggest problem with the Fold - and one I haven't yet solved - is that the outer screen makes for a terrible phone which requires you to open the fold to get the most of it.  Once opened, it's better than a candybar phone but you have to force yourself to do this.  The front screen is just too narrow to be useful.  Technically it works but too many typos and missed clicks.  Oppo and others have solved for this by using a different form factor (wider and shorter) and I expect Samsung will eventually do the same.  That will be the winning combo that takes foldables to the next level.  In the meantime, if you can deal with that issue and commit yourself to using the inside screen, the Fold is amazing.





Ceeluh7 said:


> Thank you so much man! Really! You answered the real question which was on my mind. I feel like 75% of the time I'd simply use the outer screen. The problem is I'd commit to the stinking thing if I didn't enjoy it. I've had every Samsung note phone up to the 10+ and so I was simply going to go to the ultra from that. However, that foldable looks very enticing and I was hoping that the 4th iteration would bring a nice usability. I'm still on the fence but you are the 1st person to answer this question who has actually had experience with the 4. Much APPRECIATED!





clerkpalmer said:


> On the plus side, candybar phones are boring and have reached their glass ceiling.  You can get a F4 on swappa for about $1200 which would keep you pretty safe resale wise if its not for you. The phone is very fun but I'm not yet convinced it's solving a problem that exists.  That said, I keep buying them so I guess the joke's on me.


We'll see over here.  Talk to me in a few weeks.  I will say, I'm having fun with it too and I'm usually just doing things hands free re: calls.  I like that you can use the front screen vertically or horizontally.  That helps.  It's also easier to hold in on hand, but I do miss Reachability, unless Android has it and I'm missing it.  Haven't had many typos and I usually dictate my texts.  I do wish it was more a 16x9 form.  That would def solve the thin issue while closed.  I do still prefer iOS, but I'm new, or rather, came back to try Android yet again.

On another note, no idea why they keep added more models to the Jabra line:  https://www.theverge.com/2022/9/1/23331888/jabra-elite-5-earbuds-announced-features-price  Maybe I'm missing something.


----------



## erockg

EMINENT said:


> Had 2 and now 3. This is why I skipped this version.


Iterative update too.  A lot of 3 owners are not upgrading.


----------



## helmutcheese

LG TONE Free T90 Wireless Earbuds​


----------



## Ceeluh7

Devodonaldson said:


> Just to give a different perspective.  I have the fold 2 and have been using it since release.  This is the first phone in over 10 years through I have kept over a year.  I usually get bored and move to something different that may handle a different set of my needs/ desires in a phone.  Phone,  tablet,  book,  comic book reader,  video player, mobile game machine...I love the fold.  I actually use the outer screen about 80% of the time.  I don't have a problem typing much.  The swipe to text works very well and you can add your personal words to your personal library.  I may get the 5, but I'm still happy 2 generations later, and that has never happened with a phone. I can't see myself going back to another "candy bar"


Thanks! I think I may go the Fold route. Really appreciate the feedback


----------



## clerkpalmer

helmutcheese said:


> LG TONE Free T90 Wireless Earbuds​



Please stop posting about wireless earbuds.  This is a forum to discuss phones.


----------



## clerkpalmer

erockg said:


> Iterative update too.  A lot of 3 owners are not upgrading.


I'll be interested in hearing how you are adjusting to the battery life.  Back on the charger at 220 pm.  Not sure why it bugs me so much.  Battery anxiety.  Kind of like when  you take a road trip in a Tesla.


----------



## helmutcheese

clerkpalmer said:


> Please stop posting about wireless earbuds.  This is a forum to discuss phones.


You do know Crack is bad for you, correct?


----------



## clerkpalmer

helmutcheese said:


> You do know Crack is bad for you, correct?


Hey man, I'm down to 2 or 3 hits a month.  ErockG is the one with the problem ...


----------



## jant71

helmutcheese said:


> Edifier launches the W240TN piston-inspired earbuds.​
> *Main features: *
> 
> 
> ...



I saw this on Amazon Japan and it was quite pricey but then I see it is 240 so a lower model with SBC only and the real price is pretty cheap. No Qi, average mics and his soundstage collapsing a bit comment is not cool. Does not have all the controls out of the box. The big title "KING" is with the basshead caveat. He wants this signature so it is more his king than the king in general. He also says "ANC at this price that is this effective" but it doesn't cut out people taking. Not sure how effective it can be only doing low freqs.


----------



## helmutcheese

I have not been happy with any of my Edifiers TWS purchases so I will not be getting those.


----------



## helmutcheese

clerkpalmer said:


> Hey man, I'm down to 2 or 3 hits a month.  ErockG is the one with the problem ...


Found your Facebook!  😉


----------



## Luke Skywalker

helmutcheese said:


> You do know Crack is bad for you, correct?


Butt crack?


----------



## helmutcheese

Luke Skywalker said:


> Butt crack?


He probably does that also!  💩


----------



## Not so fat head

erockg said:


> We'll see over here.  Talk to me in a few weeks.  I will say, I'm having fun with it too and I'm usually just doing things hands free re: calls.  I like that you can use the front screen vertically or horizontally.  That helps.  It's also easier to hold in on hand, but I do miss Reachability, unless Android has it and I'm missing it.  Haven't had many typos and I usually dictate my texts.  I do wish it was more a 16x9 form.  That would def solve the thin issue while closed.  I do still prefer iOS, but I'm new, or rather, came back to try Android yet again.
> 
> On another note, no idea why they keep added more models to the Jabra line:  https://www.theverge.com/2022/9/1/23331888/jabra-elite-5-earbuds-announced-features-price  Maybe I'm missing something.


I really like my new Elite 85T's...
iPhone user here; quick connect, stable, comfortable and great sound...
Looks like the newer ones mostly better it in battery time...
Makes sense, most everything else is just not going to see big tech jumps for a while....


----------



## erockg

clerkpalmer said:


> Hey man, I'm down to 2 or 3 hits a month.  ErockG is the one with the problem ...


This is why WFH is a blessing yet a curse.  Idle hands are the devils workshop.


----------



## erockg

Not so fat head said:


> I really like my new Elite 85T's...
> iPhone user here; quick connect, stable, comfortable and great sound...
> Looks like the newer ones mostly better it in battery time...
> Makes sense, most everything else is just not going to see big tech jumps for a while....


You can get the Elite 7s for $119 these days.  They're cannibalizing their lineup.  So odd:


Elite 7 Pro *$199.99*
Elite 7 Active *$179.99*
Elite 5 *$149.99*
Elite 4 Active *$119.99*
Elite 3 *$79.99*


----------



## erockg

Adidas.com has a sale for anyone wanting to try out their TWS buds.  They're not half bad and even better at this price.


----------



## Tommy C (Sep 2, 2022)

erockg said:


> You can get the Elite 7s for $119 these days.  They're cannibalizing their lineup.  So odd:
> 
> 
> Elite 7 Pro *$199.99*
> ...


It’s indeed odd.  The 85t were the only open design earbuds in their lineup and I thought they will issue a newer model but nothing so far.


----------



## dweaver

The Space A40 arrived and using hearid these sound very nice. They have a spacious quality to them. I will need to A/B them to the Linkbuds S to get a better idea of the differences in sound.

They have a bit more bass I think but not as big as I had hoped. But again I need to give them some time before I can that with certainty.

I already miss the ability of the Linkbuds S to stop music and go into ambient just by talking of the ability to switch between ambient modes with the touch of a button (might be ablt adjust this using app).

I am 90% sure I am going to love the better battery life though...


----------



## mikp (Sep 2, 2022)

BigZ12 said:


> Bought Senn' white MTW3 for $80 yesterday. On Elkjop, Norwegian webshop. Pretty cheap


Got same deal, and managed to test them a little. Maybe im getting old but dont notice that big sound improvement from mtw2.
What tips are people using? I put on the same spinfit cp360 large as I had on the mtw2, but i feel maybe i could use cp360 medium. But costly just to try that.
Have some leftover cp100, anyone tried those?

Did sell the mtw2, so made a small profit. But now cant compare them, oh well

Also using the fins, large size. I think I had those backwards first, is this the correct way?


----------



## Tommy C

mikp said:


> Got same deal, and managed to test them a little. Maybe im getting old but dont notice that big sound improvement from mtw2.
> What tips are people using? I put on the same spinfit cp360 large as I had on the mtw2, but i feel maybe i could use cp360 medium. But costly just to try that.
> Have some leftover cp100, anyone tried those?
> 
> ...



I'm also curious how the MTW3 sq is compared to the CX Plus.
Where I'm at nowadays I can literally get the CX Plus for half the price.
In terms of call quality and ANC online comparisons suggest the MTW3 are better if that's a priority.


----------



## BigZ12

mikp said:


> Got same deal, and managed to test them a little. Maybe im getting old but dont notice that big sound improvement from mtw2.
> What tips are people using? I put on the same spinfit cp360 large as I had on the mtw2, but i feel maybe i could use cp360 medium. But costly just to try that.
> Have some leftover cp100, anyone tried those?
> 
> ...


I think MTW3 sound noticably better than MTW2. Fuller sound, punchier bass and at least as detailed and "crispy" imo.
I sold the whites, and kept my graphite pair 
The tips I'm using is Flexitfit foam. (which came with my Lypertek Tevis)
The reason for that choice, is that they are quite short/shallow? (doesn't go deep in my ears). That helps me with the noise/dropouts I get with ANC on when chewing etc.
They, Flexifits, are very comfortable as well and sound as good as any silicone tip I've tried. But beware, I use them because my ears are a little "special". That's why I don't want to recommend them to you.

The fins on mine are mounted the same way as yours. Think that is correct. (I use mediums)


----------



## mikp

BigZ12 said:


> I think MTW3 sound noticably better than MTW2. Fuller sound, punchier bass and at least as detailed and "crispy" imo.
> I sold the whites, and kept my graphite pair
> The tips I'm using is Flexitfit foam. (which came with my Lypertek Tevis)
> The reason for that choice, is that they are quite short/shallow? (doesn't go deep in my ears). That helps me with the noise/dropouts I get with ANC on when chewing etc.
> ...


hm, seems one of my ears is also "special"  Now that I noticed the fins was on wrong, maybe experiment with a medium there.


----------



## clerkpalmer

erockg said:


> Adidas.com has a sale for anyone wanting to try out their TWS buds.  They're not half bad and even better at this price.


Concur.  My white ones did not survive the laundry machine.  Likely due to the ridiculous fabric case.  In any event, this set me into a panic as my other TWS buds all slowly fall out of my ears when cycling and offer unbearable amounts of wind noise.  And then, last weekend, they showed up as sold out.  Thankfully, they reappeared for $70 shipped to my door in 1 day.  I think they are the best fitting TWS I've ever owned.  Should probably buy a back up.


----------



## clerkpalmer

So, armed with my new F4, should I grab the Galaxy Buds Pro 2 on ebay for $135ish or hold out for the new Bose coming next week?


----------



## erockg

clerkpalmer said:


> So, armed with my new F4, should I grab the Galaxy Buds Pro 2 on ebay for $135ish or hold out for the new Bose coming next week?


Both.


----------



## clerkpalmer

erockg said:


> Both.


Too funny.  I was going to point out that "both" are not an option predicting you would say that.  I think I'm gonna hold out for the Bose and watch the price on the Pro 2s fall through the floor as the market is flooded with them.


----------



## erockg

clerkpalmer said:


> Too funny.  I was going to point out that "both" are not an option predicting you would say that.  I think I'm gonna hold out for the Bose and watch the price on the Pro 2s fall through the floor as the market is flooded with them.


I'm too fast for you LOL.  I got my GB2P cheap so I'm selling off a few things to make room for those new Bose.  People seem to have gotten the GB2P and are flipping them on eBay, so I agree, they'll keep going down.


----------



## Sam L

clerkpalmer said:


> So, armed with my new F4, should I grab the Galaxy Buds Pro 2 on ebay for $135ish or hold out for the new Bose coming next week?


been thinking about the buds pro 2 and the new bose as well, but in all honesty the current Bose TWS has been great for me -- fits really well, great ANC, decent SQ. The only thing I can knock is how big it is. The older buds pro has been awesome as well, no complaints after putting spinfits on them. So why am I struggling with this decision? I'm happy with what I have, I think...


----------



## Luke Skywalker

Looks like there’s a Noble FoKus Pro for $150

https://www.head-fi.org/classifieds/noble-fokus-pro.32208/


----------



## clerkpalmer

erockg said:


> I'm too fast for you LOL.  I got my GB2P cheap so I'm selling off a few things to make room for those new Bose.  People seem to have gotten the GB2P and are flipping them on eBay, so I agree, they'll keep going down.


Samsung is direct selling these for 129 on eBay. That's nice to your customers.


----------



## erockg

clerkpalmer said:


> Samsung is direct selling these for 129 on eBay. That's nice to your customers.


Being so immersed in the Apple ecosystem is proving to be quite difficult with the Android device today.  I'm used to everything syncing and working together, now I've got a wall.  Sucks, big time.


----------



## clerkpalmer

erockg said:


> Being so immersed in the Apple ecosystem is proving to be quite difficult with the Android device today.  I'm used to everything syncing and working together, now I've got a wall.  Sucks, big time.


Yeah it does.  Same boat.  I switch back and forth from time to time but this time around I was pretty locked into Apple.  Biggest problem is I can no longer facetime or text my 9 year old on his ipad.  That's a bummer.  Holding off on a full change over until I see what Apple brings to the table next week but it's looking boring.  My F4 battery is holding up in a manner that I would call "acceptable" so that's good news.


----------



## erockg

clerkpalmer said:


> Yeah it does.  Same boat.  I switch back and forth from time to time but this time around I was pretty locked into Apple.  Biggest problem is I can no longer facetime or text my 9 year old on his ipad.  That's a bummer.  Holding off on a full change over until I see what Apple brings to the table next week but it's looking boring.  My F4 battery is holding up in a manner that I would call "acceptable" so that's good news.


Good news about the charge!  How'd you pull that off?  Your other issue is exactly my issue.  Most of our family, if not all, uses iPhone/iPad etc.  No FaceTime, or iMessages with a s-ton of folks etc.  The Fold 4 is really cool and all, but I need to figure this out.  Tried to turn on my Apple watch cellular, but you need your sim in your iPhone if you want to use the watch without the iPhone in your possession.  Blah!  Every time I put the sim in the Fold, can't use the watch.  This is all after T-Mobile too three hours telling me all the wrong ways to set up the watch.  They're "tech experts" they say.

Apple is just a spec bump, some new features, that's about it.  Everything is leaked so far in advance these days, there's zero excitement.  Who know, maybe a Max IS in my future.


----------



## dweaver

Been playing around with the A40 and the Linkbuds S and the A40 is a bit heavier for the bass and has a bigger sound stage.  It is a bit recessed in the mids and has a bit more edge.

The Linkbuds S is more midcentric with a smoother presentation with a bit softer bass.

I can't say one sounds better than other because it depends on the song. But the EQ presets of the Soundcore app make it easy to tweak the A40 sound so it would potentially be able to overcome some of that.

I could not get a good fit using included tips for the A40 so am using 3rd party tips such as Spinfits which work, as do Sony Hybrid, and the Technics AZ60 tips.

Comfort wise the LInkbuds S are slightly more comfy and better for sleeping.

Have not used the A40 in a noisy environment yet so can't comment on how they work there or in wind. Will update as I have a chance to try those situations.

Battery life seems to be excellent likely at least double the Linkbuds S.

Case sizes are are almost exactly the same. Both easily house the buds but the A40 are a bit easier to put in. The A40 can do wireless charging and holds a ridiculous amount of battery life so like the buds themselves is way better than the Sony case.

At the price point of the A40 if you want a decently balanced sound signature and killer battery life you can't go wrong buying them. But like there stronger bass options and total sound options out there even from Soundcore themselves in the form of the L3P.

The quality of life features of the Linkbuds S definitely make them a better IEM for all circumstances but at more than double the cost even when on sale they are a bit pricey. I like them though and since I have already spent the money will continue using them and am not as upset I spent all that money on them as I thought I might be.


----------



## clerkpalmer

erockg said:


> Good news about the charge!  How'd you pull that off?  Your other issue is exactly my issue.  Most of our family, if not all, uses iPhone/iPad etc.  No FaceTime, or iMessages with a s-ton of folks etc.  The Fold 4 is really cool and all, but I need to figure this out.  Tried to turn on my Apple watch cellular, but you need your sim in your iPhone if you want to use the watch without the iPhone in your possession.  Blah!  Every time I put the sim in the Fold, can't use the watch.  This is all after T-Mobile too three hours telling me all the wrong ways to set up the watch.  They're "tech experts" they say.
> 
> Apple is just a spec bump, some new features, that's about it.  Everything is leaked so far in advance these days, there's zero excitement.  Who know, maybe a Max IS in my future.


Apple's refusal to integrate imessage to Android is infuriating and makes me dislike Apple.  Yeah, there's no easy answers although there are some positives to being off of the family devices.  For me, my wife was tracking my location since we all share an account.  Switch to samsung and now I am free to roam the planet ... The easy solution to the F4 battery is just not use the phone.  Problem solved.


----------



## helmutcheese (Sep 2, 2022)

LG TONE Free® Fit TF8​




https://www.lg.com/us/headphones/lg...m_medium=Gamesky-TONE&utm_campaign=2022HQ-IRM

LG specs BT 5.2 he claims BT 5.3, $199 for AAC/SBC only so no thanks as we near 2023 when new aptX features appearing.


----------



## erockg

clerkpalmer said:


> Apple's refusal to integrate imessage to Android is infuriating and makes me dislike Apple.  Yeah, there's no easy answers although there are some positives to being off of the family devices.  For me, my wife was tracking my location since we all share an account.  Switch to samsung and now I am free to roam the planet ... The easy solution to the F4 battery is just not use the phone.  Problem solved.


You had me at she tracks you.  That's hysterical.  But you know, those 20-somethings are just irresistible.  I'm with you at this moment re: iMessages.  That said, I've got the Google Messages app up on my Mac all day and it's working okay.  Def not as smooth, but my workarounds are getting there... until the aren't.  The GB2 Pro integrate nicely.  Really stupid that Apple and Android won't get along.  Synergy would make things a bit more fun.  All this said, my wife found out the Fold 4 is in the house.  I mean, I needed it, right?


----------



## FullCircle (Sep 3, 2022)

clerkpalmer said:


> I think you should consider TWS earbuds disposable.  The tech moves fast so yeah, 2 - 3 years sounds right but in 2 years you'll want to upgrade.  With something like the Fokus Pro at that price, it's a fair question to ask.  Most of us here will have moved past them in 2 years even at the high price.  That said, as you know, batteries don't fall off a cliff.  Even after 2 years and numerous charge cycles, you're probably looking at 80% capacity making them usable.  Not a direct answer to your question however I've never seen a TWS advertise charge cycles etc.  I don't think the size of the battery really matters.


All good points
But I'll add a bit more.

Consider this, Noble is a small company & due to this the tws build batches are miniscule compared the the large companies that have products built by the 100s of thousands.

What does that have to do with anything?  Well the large mass ordered products end up in a warehouse / stored etc as they wait for their turn to get some product shelf space at a big box store.

Noble, products, due to their low volume build cycles, never really have much time spent on a shelf.   Due to this, the odds of the batteries being fresher are higher.


----------



## FYLegend

erockg said:


> You can get the Elite 7s for $119 these days.  They're cannibalizing their lineup.  So odd:
> 
> 
> Elite 7 Pro *$199.99*
> ...


I feel like the Elite 5 is long overdue as when they first announced the Elite 7 series and Elite 3 I was wondering "where's the Elite 5?" which would still have multipoint and ANC (even if slightly worse than the Elite 7).  The price point seems silly but in many ways will be a superior product with AptX and possibly even better ANC (not sure how much improved via firmware, but there were a lot of complaints for the Elite 7 Pro initially plus the disastrous delay in adding multipoint). With all the negative reviews of the Elite 7's ANC I hope this will be an improvement plus it has AptX.

My Elite 3 is my backup pair (daily driver is Liberty 3 Pro) and I enjoy its sound, but the noise floor is ridiculous and sounds like "fake ANC" as you will focus on the nasty hiss over background noises!


----------



## dweaver (Sep 3, 2022)

The sound id thing with the Soundcore app is pretty darn good but is worth doing a couple times to make sure you do it right. The ability to couple it with your favorite preset in advanced features is also pretty cool. I like my id with piano or accoustic the best.

It is disconcerting I have gaps in my hearing. But it is what it is.

The test actually has boosted the upper most treble to the max which I already new Ihad trouble hearing so it is what it is...


----------



## dweaver

I also found I could do a hearing test in my Samsung phone so have done that one too. Will see how this affects my listening with my other TWS.


----------



## darveniza

Purchased the new Xiaomi Buds 4 Pro and really impressed with these. Feel that they are notch ahead of Huawei Freebuds Pro 2 and the new Samsung Buds Pro 2

APP has a lot of options. No EQ but supports multiple codecs, including LHDC and has been working with my FLAC files at 48 and 96 KHZ

Controls are pretty good and include volume, ANC,etc


----------



## dweaver

I have decided between older ears that can't really appreciate the benefit, the need to constantly fiddle with developer settings, and often to my ears an actual loss of detail after tweaking LDAC is just not worth trying anymore. At best it sounds as good as AAC and worst loses so much detail when you forget to tweak it that you think your TWS sounds bad.

I look forward to the day a truly great codec is made but until then, as long as I use Samsung products I will just use AAC or AptX (not willing to root my phone to get higher AptX codecs).


----------



## Caipirina

darveniza said:


> Purchased the new Xiaomi Buds 4 Pro and really impressed with these. Feel that they are notch ahead of Huawei Freebuds Pro 2 and the new Samsung Buds Pro 2
> 
> APP has a lot of options. No EQ but supports multiple codecs, including LHDC and has been working with my FLAC files at 48 and 96 KHZ
> 
> Controls are pretty good and include volume, ANC,etc


Great .. now I have to google LHDC


----------



## Caipirina

dweaver said:


> I have decided between older ears that can't really appreciate the benefit, the need to constantly fiddle with developer settings, and often to my ears an actual loss of detail after tweaking LDAC is just not worth trying anymore. At best it sounds as good as AAC and worst loses so much detail when you forget to tweak it that you think your TWS sounds bad.
> 
> I look forward to the day a truly great codec is made but until then, as long as I use Samsung products I will just use AAC or AptX (not willing to root my phone to get higher AptX codecs).


I feel you! Old ears here as well ... 
When I fiddle around or use one of my LDAC players I think I can still hear the difference between the codecs .. but there is usually some hassle involved, i.e. connection drops, which are annoying. My Tempotec V1 is really nice, but seems I have to carry it in a breast pocket as close to the master bud as possible ... 
I think I am done chasing after the latest greatest codec ... 
Mainly I want killer ANC, dynamic happy sound .. and a comfortable fit ...
So, Bose & Apple, get ready to receive my money in a few days


----------



## Mouseman

Caipirina said:


> Great .. now I have to google LHDC


Only if your equipment supports it. I think only my HiBy gear does.


----------



## Caipirina (Sep 4, 2022)

Mouseman said:


> Only if your equipment supports it. I think only my HiBy gear does.


ok, so, now I googled that ... and while I cannot confirm if my HiBy R2 player can do LHDC, it appears that my Redmi 9T is on the list of devices that can support it IF I upgrade to MIUI 12 ... something I am a bit reluctant to do, as this phone currently does everything I want from it nicely (mainly as a media player) and I don't want to rattle the cage (never done a UI / OS upgrade on an Android phone  )

edit: nevermind .. it appears that phone already came out with MIUI 12 .. but it is hairy to confirm LHDC as the naming of Xiaomi / Redmi phones is just terrible .. there is a Redmi 9T, Mi 9T and Redmi Note 9T ... and articles tend to mix those up a lot .. anyways, can't find the buds 4 pro anywhere anyways


----------



## cresny

darveniza said:


> Purchased the new Xiaomi Buds 4 Pro and really impressed with these. Feel that they are notch ahead of Huawei Freebuds Pro 2 and the new Samsung Buds Pro 2
> 
> APP has a lot of options. No EQ but supports multiple codecs, including LHDC and has been working with my FLAC files at 48 and 96 KHZ
> 
> Controls are pretty good and include volume, ANC,etc


By saying these are a notch ahead, do you mean in sound quality, or just overall features? If sound quality, can you say how so, eg. Dynamic range, details, soundstage?


----------



## Mouseman

Caipirina said:


> ok, so, now I googled that ... and while I cannot confirm if my HiBy R2 player can do LHDC, it appears that my Redmi 9T is on the list of devices that can support it IF I upgrade to MIUI 12 ... something I am a bit reluctant to do, as this phone currently does everything I want from it nicely (mainly as a media player) and I don't want to rattle the cage (never done a UI / OS upgrade on an Android phone  )
> 
> edit: nevermind .. it appears that phone already came out with MIUI 12 .. but it is hairy to confirm LHDC as the naming of Xiaomi / Redmi phones is just terrible .. there is a Redmi 9T, Mi 9T and Redmi Note 9T ... and articles tend to mix those up a lot .. anyways, can't find the buds 4 pro anywhere anyways


Yeah, I don't know if anything that old has it. My R5 does, but I don't think the R3 does and I'm not sure where it is to check. I suspect Android is part of it, and not the HiBy OS that the R2 and R3 use.


----------



## clerkpalmer

erockg said:


> You had me at she tracks you.  That's hysterical.  But you know, those 20-somethings are just irresistible.  I'm with you at this moment re: iMessages.  That said, I've got the Google Messages app up on my Mac all day and it's working okay.  Def not as smooth, but my workarounds are getting there... until the aren't.  The GB2 Pro integrate nicely.  Really stupid that Apple and Android won't get along.  Synergy would make things a bit more fun.  All this said, my wife found out the Fold 4 is in the house.  I mean, I needed it, right?


Yeah I don't even try to hide stuff anymore. It's not worth it. Wife was not happy about another new gadget. Although the phone pales in comparison to the Audi I'm expecting .... yes you absolutely needed it.


----------



## erockg

clerkpalmer said:


> Yeah I don't even try to hide stuff anymore. It's not worth it. Wife was not happy about another new gadget. Although the phone pales in comparison to the Audi I'm expecting .... yes you absolutely needed it.


Glad to hear I'm not the only one.


----------



## FullCircle

clerkpalmer said:


> Yeah I don't even try to hide stuff anymore. It's not worth it. Wife was not happy about another new gadget. Although the phone pales in comparison to the Audi I'm expecting .... yes you absolutely needed it.



I feel this
I want to build an e36 m3 coupe
.



Problem is I already have a sedan e36 m3


----------



## darveniza

cresny said:


> By saying these are a notch ahead, do you mean in sound quality, or just overall features? If sound quality, can you say how so, eg. Dynamic range, details, soundstage?


A few thoughts:


App is dedicated to the TWS units while Huawei is a broad type app
Control response feel better with the Xiaomi, but do like the Huawie volume control approach
Case is smaller for the Xiaomi which is always a +
The stems are rounded in lieu of square with the Huawei 
Getting them in and our of case is absolutely easier with the Xiaomi 
Sound , bass response seems close. I think the treble is better on the Xiaomi. Fell the highs are again close. Details come across better for me on the Xiaomi
Was expecting was more of Devialet tuning to come thru for the Huawei,  but felt it was close to the previous version


----------



## clerkpalmer

FullCircle said:


> I feel this
> I want to build an e36 m3 coupe
> .
> 
> Problem is I already have a sedan e36 m3


I view both as necessary.


----------



## dweaver (Sep 4, 2022)

Here is the raw Hear ID results for me, as can be seen I cannot hear anything above 10khz.




It sound better to me if combine that ID with acoustic which end up looking like this.



I have to admit I generally am not a fan of EQ but this combo sounds really good to my ears. It doesn't sound strained or fake and is very immersive.

I am torn between the A40 and the Linkbuds S, the A40 edges the S for sound quality as a whole with a wider more natural sound but the Sony definitely sounds good and is better for certain genres. The S has better quality of life features such as higher ANC, better ambient mode, ability to use assistant without having to touch the earbud, synaptic response to touches, voice activation for ambient when you start to talk, and auto pause. While the A40 is miles ahead on battery life, wireless charging.

I am pretty sure if I bought both at the same time I would just give the win to the A40 because I would not have taken the time to get used to the S features and would have just settled on the A40 as it has a more traditional set of features so I wouldn't know any better. But having used the S for a couple of months and gotten used to what is brings to the table with those features, you quickly realize how much they make life easier or better so are not as easy to dismiss.

Really wish one of these companies would just make the complete package... For now though, I have two great TWS I can use as needed.


----------



## BooleanBones

FYI Air Pods Pro owners. If you have some that make some odd noises while ANC/transparency is on, you should report to Apple if you have purchased in the last couple years. They just gave me two free replacement buds


----------



## FullCircle

clerkpalmer said:


> I view both as necessary.



I appreciate the vote of confidence, but the e36 sedan becomes redundant as I have a e39 540


----------



## BooleanBones

FullCircle said:


> I appreciate the vote of confidence, but the e36 sedan becomes redundant as I have a e39 540


I used to enjoy your posts, but not so much anymore


----------



## clerkpalmer

FullCircle said:


> I appreciate the vote of confidence, but the e36 sedan becomes redundant as I have a e39 540


Gorgeous BMW.


----------



## Caipirina

clerkpalmer said:


> Gorgeous BMW.


stop posting off topic! 

This is a phone forum!


----------



## clerkpalmer

Caipirina said:


> stop posting off topic!
> 
> This is a phone forum!


Lol. 2 days until apple introduces lossless streaming on ios....


----------



## scubaphish

clerkpalmer said:


> Lol. 2 days until apple introduces lossless streaming on ios....


Hopefully not just LE based, requiring a phone upgrade


----------



## Juturna

I lost my Soundcore Liberty 3 Pro at the work conference we're at right now. Despite having pockets with actual zippers on them... **** my life. Can't afford to replace them either at the moment so I feel miserable af, I really haven't enjoyed any other earbuds as much as these so it completely blows.


----------



## erockg

FullCircle said:


> I appreciate the vote of confidence, but the e36 sedan becomes redundant as I have a e39 540





BooleanBones said:


> I used to enjoy your posts, but not so much anymore


Throw in a new pair of Noble Fokus Pro's _with_ ANC, transparency mode _and_ wireless charging and I'm there.


----------



## FullCircle

erockg said:


> Throw in a new pair of Noble Fokus Pro's _with_ ANC, transparency mode _and_ wireless charging and I'm there.


----------



## subguy812 (Sep 5, 2022)

Amazing how John from Noble hijacks the thread when he gets rep and when he doesn't get rep he posts other things, like his BMW, and my we are all impressed, by the way!


----------



## subguy812 (Sep 5, 2022)

I looked and the new ATH-TWX9 is available in Japan but I can't find anyone to ship to USA, so we wait.


----------



## FullCircle (Sep 5, 2022)

subguy812 said:


> Amazing how John from Noble hijacks the thread when he gets rep and when he doesn't get rep he posts other things, like his BMW, and my we are all impressed, by the way!



Men of culture usually have similar interests.
Head fi has knife threads, watch threads, photo threads etc.  (Not sure about car threads.)

I apologize if a post about an old car unsettled your day.

That said, car audio did have some impact on bringing me into portable audio. I was installing car stereos before I could drive. Pretty much anything audio related peaked my interest.

Edit: Funny story about that car, I was having some Focal speakers installed in the doors & the owner of the shop owned a pair of mass Drop aluminum K10s (small world)

Cheers


----------



## subguy812

FullCircle said:


> Men of culture usually have similar interests.
> Head fi has knife threads, watch threads, photo threads etc.  (Not sure about car threads.)
> 
> I apologize if a post about an old car unsettled your day.
> ...


Thanks John...I am not unsettled ever


----------



## FullCircle

subguy812 said:


> Thanks John...I am not unsettled ever


----------



## Caipirina

Juturna said:


> I lost my Soundcore Liberty 3 Pro at the work conference we're at right now. Despite having pockets with actual zippers on them... **** my life. Can't afford to replace them either at the moment so I feel miserable af, I really haven't enjoyed any other earbuds as much as these so it completely blows.


The whole set? This sucks! Why does that happen only with our favorite buds? 
Maybe they still show up? 
Here’s hoping!


----------



## dweaver

Any search features with the LP3 @Juturna ? I lost my GBPro  twice and their find feature saved my butt.


----------



## jsmiller58

subguy812 said:


> Thanks John...I am not unsettled ever


Shaken.  Not stirred.


----------



## FYLegend

dweaver said:


> Any search features with the LP3 @Juturna ? I lost my GBPro  twice and their find feature saved my butt.


The find feature didn't help my GBuds 2. They fell out of my pockets at some point going to a park and in the coming weeks they made it into the back alleys of Chinatown before I lost track! (they were being pinged by other Samsung devices passing by the area)


----------



## dweaver

FYLegend said:


> The find feature didn't help my GBuds 2. They fell out of my pockets at some point going to a park and in the coming weeks they made it into the back alleys of Chinatown before I lost track! (they were being pinged by other Samsung devices passing by the area)


DOH! I actually very fortunate in my case! The first time one of the buds fell out of my pocket in an indoor mall area and I found it rolled into a corner near where I sat for a while. The second time it showed the IEM had fallen out of my pocket in a parking lot!!! I managed to get there and find it and not have it run over and smashed to smithereens!!!!

Very lucky, but the find feature helped in both cases. I fully expected to find a smashed bud the second time and was so relieved when it was not broken!


----------



## Caipirina

dweaver said:


> Any search features with the LP3 @Juturna ? I lost my GBPro  twice and their find feature saved my butt.


actually checked on my pair before I commented, nope, they do not have a find my feature ...


----------



## nekonhime

Caipirina said:


> actually checked on my pair before I commented, nope, they do not have a find my feature ...


I wish every pair of headphone or earbuds have that feature as I lost my b&o eq at an airport lol.


----------



## Trager

You guys are killin’ me, I miss my e36 vert, which I had to let go after it hit 150k miles and was starting to cost me $5-10k a year in repairs.


----------



## Caipirina

jant71 said:


> Just got an email from BOSE....
> 
> That new smaller TWS??


It's 9/7

Where is my Holy SH9.7 news / update? Need to know! NOW


----------



## dweaver

Went for a walk in the wind today and found to my surprise a couple of things about the A40 versus the Linkbuds S.

First thing was not a good difference. The A40 has quite a change in signature going from ANC to no ANC. I never realized how different they sounded until today.

The next thing was the fact that the Linkbuds S have way less wind issue in non ANC mode whereas the A40 has wind sound when in non ANC. This coupled with the Linkbuds having almost as good non ANC isolation as the A40 ANC mode make it better for windy days. But the wind reduction feature of the A40 did help make it less noisy than the Linkbuds S when they were both in ANC mode.

The more I listen to the A40 the more I appreciate it musical abilities, it has more detail and a better sound stage than the Linkbuds S but only when I do back and forth a comparing. I am starting to play around with the Sony EQ to see if can bring out more detail in the Sony by emulating the EQ of the A40.

So I am still torn LOL. The A40 seems to work best in ANC only whereas the Linkbuds S work best when they can switch between ANC, no ANC, and Ambient on their own. Consequently the battery life of the Linkbuds starts to get a bit closer to the A40 because it doesn't need ANC very often.


----------



## DigDub (Sep 7, 2022)

Planar+dynamic drivers, LDAC, devialet tuned. Powerful and impactful bass. Mids and highs are clear and well defined without being sibilant. Mids sounds "fast" and a bit dry, maybe due to the planar driver?


----------



## Caipirina

Getting a bit impatient here I kept checking world wide Bose pages, in case there’s a glitch … so far nada, only interesting how other countries ‘translate’ the ‘Holy SH97’ message. 


Question remains, will they wait for Apple to flinch first?


----------



## Juturna

Caipirina said:


> The whole set? This sucks! Why does that happen only with our favorite buds?
> Maybe they still show up?
> Here’s hoping!


Yeah, lost the entire thing. Unfortunately they didn't turn up! I think there's a real chance that somebody at my work ended up taking them. Could also be hotel staff/other guests (but there were very few of them) or possibly our bus driver that we had on the way here.

No way of knowing really, it is sad though.
Anybody have a set of L3Ps that they don't use that they could donate to me?  
Lol, i wish.


----------



## Juturna

dweaver said:


> Went for a walk in the wind today and found to my surprise a couple of things about the A40 versus the Linkbuds S.
> 
> First thing was not a good difference. The A40 has quite a change in signature going from ANC to no ANC. I never realized how different they sounded until today.
> 
> ...


How do they compare to the L3Ps if you've had them? I think the L3Ps are fantastic and hard to beat, but they need serious EQing and I don't love the wing tips.


----------



## Evshrug

clerkpalmer said:


> Lol. 2 days until apple introduces lossless streaming on ios....


Do you mean a lossless Bluetooth codec? Because I’ve been enjoying HiRes Apple Music for a long time now, over a year:








Don’t bag on me for using “just” aac on the go… sounds about the same on my car stereo (VW Golf, since John made this a car thread 😂), saves battery, and has less chance of interruptions while driving cross country. But home, with my iPad connected to my desktop DAC/amp and HD 800, I do appreciate the lossless formats.

@subguy812 Hey good to see you again! Now that I’m currently left unemployed (long story, investment partner pulled funding and I don’t know why, wish I could have helped more), I’m going to try reviewing again, like you!!! I am so rusty though, and seem to have very little seratonin floating in my head currently 😅


----------



## dyh

darveniza said:


> Purchased the new Xiaomi Buds 4 Pro and really impressed with these. Feel that they are notch ahead of Huawei Freebuds Pro 2 and the new Samsung Buds Pro 2
> 
> APP has a lot of options. No EQ but supports multiple codecs, including LHDC and has been working with my FLAC files at 48 and 96 KHZ
> 
> Controls are pretty good and include volume, ANC,etc


How good is the ANC on the Xiaomi Buds 4 Pro, compared with the ANC on the Samsung Buds2 Pro?


----------



## clerkpalmer

Caipirina said:


> Getting a bit impatient here I kept checking world wide Bose pages, in case there’s a glitch … so far nada, only interesting how other countries ‘translate’ the ‘Holy SH97’ message.
> 
> 
> Question remains, will they wait for Apple to flinch first?


Not if they are smart. They'd be better off locking in pre-orders before the apple event.


----------



## clerkpalmer

DigDub said:


> Planar+dynamic drivers, LDAC, devialet tuned. Powerful and impactful bass. Mids and highs are clear and well defined without being sibilant. Mids sounds "fast" and a bit dry, maybe due to the planar driver?


That would be a planar characteristic for sure. Planar are known for their super fast and often very deep bass response but they won't rumble like a dynamic.  Where can I get these?


----------



## DigDub

clerkpalmer said:


> That would be a planar characteristic for sure. Planar are known for their super fast and often very deep bass response but they won't rumble like a dynamic.  Where can I get these?


I got these from the local Huawei store in Singapore. I don't think these are available in the USA due to the sanctions on Huawei.


----------



## clerkpalmer

DigDub said:


> I got these from the local Huawei store in Singapore. I don't think these are available in the USA due to the sanctions on Huawei.


Darn. You should hook me up!


----------



## Caipirina

clerkpalmer said:


> Not if they are smart. They'd be better off locking in pre-orders before the apple event.


Or they are waiting for apple’s price and then last minute adjust


----------



## clerkpalmer

Caipirina said:


> Or they are waiting for apple’s price and then last minute adjust


Pretty sure the price is 299. Probably a 9am US launch.


----------



## DigDub

clerkpalmer said:


> Darn. You should hook me up!


They just got released in Singapore yesterday.


----------



## dweaver

Juturna said:


> How do they compare to the L3Ps if you've had them? I think the L3Ps are fantastic and hard to beat, but they need serious EQing and I don't love the wing tips.


Unfortunately I have not tried the L3P so can not say for sure. I did own the L2P and these are not as bass heavy as that model. They have enough bass for me though and I like their balanced sound. They fit a lot nicer than the L2P being almost as comfortable as the Linkbuds S. 

Battery life on them appears to be very good which I hear was not the case in the L3P.


----------



## cresny

clerkpalmer said:


> That would be a planar characteristic for sure. Planar are known for their super fast and often very deep bass response but they won't rumble like a dynamic.  Where can I get these?


For these, the planar driver is the "tweeter". The "woofer" is a multi-magnet dynamic driver, and it does deliver plenty of sub base. I've been using mine daily since I got them off of Amazon UK, but reports are that the very similar Oppo Enco X2 is better. It seems that there is a sort of an anti-stem bias, but for me it's the opposite for a number of reasons. These have click controls, and the up down swipe of the stem has been the most useful TWS volume control I've experienced. If the Oppos have the same, and I'm guessing they do then I would go for those at around $150.


----------



## Caipirina

clerkpalmer said:


> Pretty sure the price is 299. Probably a 9am US launch.


It’s nearly 11am (East coast, where they are based) now …. I am so inpatient.


----------



## Luke Skywalker (Sep 7, 2022)

clerkpalmer said:


> Apple's refusal to integrate imessage to Android is infuriating and makes me dislike Apple.  Yeah, there's no easy answers although there are some positives to being off of the family devices.  For me, my wife was tracking my location since we all share an account.  Switch to samsung and now I am free to roam the planet ... The easy solution to the F4 battery is just not use the phone.  Problem solved.


Ya I usually don’t even bother to text people who don’t have iPhones. I always get that “message failed to send” error. I guess I could use Signal or WhatsApp but it’s just not worth all the hassle. And I’m addicted to Facetime


----------



## dleblanc343

I've got the ATH-TWX9 in ears right now.

Best TWS I've ever heard, far outclassing my Airpods Pro which have been my favorite for the past 2 years.

Best audio product of 2022 for me as well!


More to come


----------



## Caipirina (Sep 7, 2022)

Bose: 299$, available from Sept 15, SBC / AAC, up to 6h battery life single charge. Some kind of customized ANC setup by echolocating / mapping out your ear …
Apple: APP2 look the same, 249$, twice as much ANC (?) new size eartip: xs! Swipe gesture on stem for volume. Order from Sept 9, available Sept 23 ..

Color me mildly underwhelmed… guess I really need to try how the ANC has improved. 

Now we wait for the first tests


----------



## EMINENT

dleblanc343 said:


> I've got the ATH-TWX9 in ears right now.
> 
> Best TWS I've ever heard, far outclassing my Airpods Pro which have been my favorite for the past 2 years.
> 
> ...


Have you heard the EX, XM4, Buds Pro for comparison?


----------



## C_Lindbergh

dleblanc343 said:


> I've got the ATH-TWX9 in ears right now.
> 
> Best TWS I've ever heard, far outclassing my Airpods Pro which have been my favorite for the past 2 years.
> 
> ...


Guess I can import them from Amazon Japan... I contacted audio technica EU, and they had no idea if its launching in Europe.


----------



## maor26

For the people interested in the new app 2.
New chip, better battery for case+ the earphones, some changes in the touch controls, case speaker to help with finding it etc.


----------



## erockg

I pre-ordered the Bose.  Will report back when received.  Got $30 off through my wife's id.me account.  We shall see!


----------



## clerkpalmer

erockg said:


> I pre-ordered the Bose.  Will report back when received.  Got $30 off through my wife's id.me account.  We shall see!


Me too.


----------



## whitete

Juturna said:


> How do they compare to the L3Ps if you've had them? I think the L3Ps are fantastic and hard to beat, but they need serious EQing and I don't love the wing tips.


I have both the L3P and A40. I think the A40 sounds better and I especially like the small form of the A40. Also the A40 is cheaper. The only problem I’ve had with the A40 is that the buds don’t always charge in the case. I think the contacts don’t always match up. I’ve been in touch with Soundcore and they’ve been very helpful, as you would expect. So far the A40s are my favorite TWS.


----------



## clerkpalmer

maor26 said:


> For the people interested in the new app 2.
> New chip, better battery for case+ the earphones, some changes in the touch controls, case speaker to help with finding it etc.


Underwhelmed. Was hoping for lossless. Oh well maybe next time.


----------



## Caipirina (Sep 7, 2022)

erockg said:


> I pre-ordered the Bose.  Will report back when received.  Got $30 off through my wife's id.me account.  We shall see!


Funny thing, signed up for that ‘stay in the loop’ email notification … has not come yet …

The way the Yen is to the USD right now I fear the 299$ will be like 45.000¥ (instead of 30.000)  ….

Just how the 249$ APP2 are now 40.000¥ … haiyaaaaaa



interestingly, the Japanese price for the Bose was just released and it is LOWER than the APP ...


----------



## Caipirina (Sep 7, 2022)

dleblanc343 said:


> I've got the ATH-TWX9 in ears right now.
> 
> Best TWS I've ever heard, far outclassing my Airpods Pro which have been my favorite for the past 2 years.
> 
> ...


How’s the ANC? How does it stack up against Bose / Sony / Apple?

Might get that set instead until I find new app2 / Bose QC 2 used here 

Of course, temporary out of stock! The universe want me to keep my money.


----------



## clerkpalmer

Caipirina said:


> How’s the ANC? How does it stack up against Bose / Sony / Apple?
> 
> Might get that set instead until I find new app2 / Bose QC 2 used here
> 
> Of course, temporary out of stock! The universe want me to keep my money.


225 USD shipped. Out-of stock however. Worth it?


----------



## Blueshound24

For those interested in the L3P, I posted this on the "Deals" thread here as well. Lightning Deal ends in 18 minutes...



> Soundcore by Anker Liberty 3 Pro Noise Canceling Earbuds, True Wireless Earbuds​Amazon Prime
> List $169
> Lightning Deal $99
> 
> ...


----------



## Caipirina (Sep 8, 2022)

CNET has a first hands on video of the Bose ...  but was not enough for real testing (they say) ...


Interesting snippets, apparently there was at least a purple prototype version!




And the case still looks pretty hefty!





Other take aways:
NO wireless charging!
AptX and Multipoint might be coming later via FW, the chip supports it
ANC is of the adaptive variety? Can't we get that as an option? I want full ANC all the time!

E-earphone did a video presentation 2h ago ... they say the case is 40% smaller ... nice to see side by side



Eartips are oval



They are doing some ANC test and seem very impressed, but YT has a hard time with auto translating the subs   Not sure what they are saying ...


----------



## Nostoi

Can anyone offer impressions on the Victor HA-FW1000t? I assume these are made in China rather than Japan also?


----------



## Fleeple

Nostoi said:


> Can anyone offer impressions on the Victor HA-FW1000t? I assume these are made in China rather than Japan also?


They personally sounded great (I had the jvc variant), touch controls were great, calls were pretty good.....but the stem design kept them from staying in my ears. Your mileage, of course, will vary on this


----------



## Nostoi

Fleeple said:


> They personally sounded great (I had the jvc variant), touch controls were great, calls were pretty good.....but the stem design kept them from staying in my ears. Your mileage, of course, will vary on this


Thanks, probably a no no for me, then as I generally have a lot of issues with fittings....


----------



## Tstorey

APP2 looks like it doesn’t support hi-res audio, feel like Apple have missed a trick there. Glad I picked up the EX now.


----------



## scubaphish

Tstorey said:


> APP2 looks like it doesn’t support hi-res audio, feel like Apple have missed a trick there. Glad I picked up the EX now.


Read today that both the APP and iPhone 14 support Bluetooth 5.3. Chance they implement LE via firmware?


----------



## HaliHarry

Nostoi said:


> Can anyone offer impressions on the Victor HA-FW1000t? I assume these are made in China rather than Japan also?


I love it more than fokus pro. Of course i have to adjust EQ a little bit


----------



## Nostoi

HaliHarry said:


> I love it more than fokus pro. Of course i have to adjust EQ a little bit


And the fit for you? I've had a few JVC woodies in the past, big fan. Wireless version sounds compelling if the fit is doable.


----------



## clerkpalmer

Caipirina said:


> CNET has a first hands on video of the Bose ...  but was not enough for real testing (they say) ...
> 
> 
> Interesting snippets, apparently there was at least a purple prototype version!
> ...



Bose really kept these close to the vest.  Very little press on this.  Impressive.  My guess, fwiw, is they will sound exactly the same as the existing buds.  The form factor looks to be a vast improvement however and they will offer typical Bose polish which is as good as it gets.  Bose is like Apple and rarely release anything half baked.  Pricey yes, but I use my QC's now more than any other TWS because they are always charged, sound solid and have ridiculous ANC.  If I could only live with 1 TWS at the moment, I would take the Bose.  This is definitely a case where they may not offer the best sound or specs, but the sum total of the experience will be worth it.  It would be nice if they upped their Codec game but probably not a priority for them.


----------



## dleblanc343 (Sep 8, 2022)

*ATH-TWX9 *First impressions when touching the product is WOW, they’re so premium looking and feeling. The opening/ closing action of the case is addicting to play with, it feels so good. So do the magnets when snapping the iem back in its case.

The led light sequence when the UV decontaminates the earphones is also very satisfying. It all looks top notch and premium.

The textured black finish and bronze accents are pure class.

Noise canceling is pretty good, and you can even adjust to select environments such as “plane” “train” “city” “office” or “house” otherwise have the noise canceling be calibrated in real time to your current environment (you need to go through a funky sound calibration process which is amusing).

Controls are both using touch panels and 2 physical buttons:

- Left A-T logo is touch - Toggles between Noise canceling, ANC off & hear through by double tapping
- Left stem button - One click raises volum; double click raises volume. In the settings, you can choose your volume steps to be 16, 32 or 64 I believe, so the increments in volum adjustment can be modified
- Right stem button - One click to play/pause, double click to skip ahead a song, triple click to go back.

Now the best part, SOUND.

As mentioned in my immediate impressions upon a couple mins of listening - this is better than what the market dictates in the high end price range - it’s seriously good. I legitimately prefer the tuning of these to my IE900, which are one of the better wired iem’s out there. it doesn’t sound like your prototypical A-T headphones, it’s actually quite fun and punchy, somewhat reminiscent of Harman but just way less shouty in the upper midrange and more sweet in a way.

The eartip selection is honestly overkill, but that’s an impressive commitment to getting a good fitment for the end user.
- You get XS, S, M , L in 3 different fitment depth options (stem length) for a total of 12 fitment options. I like M with the long stem (deep fit).

Using the companion app allows for tweaking tuning with EQ, selecting the desired codec for bluetooth, adjusting the Hear-through function (5 levels of intensity, and works great. I use #4) as well as adjusting your noise canceling preferences. I believe there is even a tracker to locate your product (if location services are enabled).

All in all, I came in skeptical and not at all expecting a hi-fidelity sound with these to be honest… and was completely surprised to find it to be dynamic, well tuned, great timbre, great detail and a very good fit in the ear. it hard to find any criticisms really, though if being a bit strict, it’s perhaps not quite as intuitive as Airpods in an Apple ecosystem.

These are literally much better than Airpods Pro, and will be taking its place - something I didn’t ever expect to say as the Airpods Pro served their usage case extremely well with a serviceable sound.

10/10 thanks!


----------



## clerkpalmer

dleblanc343 said:


> First impressions when touching the product is WOW, they’re so premium looking and feeling. The opening/ closing action of the case is addicting to play with, it feels so good. So do the magnets when snapping the iem back in its case.
> 
> The led light sequence when the UV decontaminates the earphones is also very satisfying. It all looks top notch and premium.
> 
> ...


High praise. Ordered. I'm holding you fully responsible if they are not the equivalent of angels singing into my ears ....


----------



## Nostoi

dleblanc343 said:


> First impressions when touching the_* ATH-TWX9 *_is WOW, they’re so premium looking and feeling. The opening/ closing action of the case is addicting to play with, it feels so good. So do the magnets when snapping the iem back in its case.



I've edited the opening of your impressions so we know which product you're actually referring to.   

Good to read more generally - more likeable than IE900...impressive.


----------



## dleblanc343

Nostoi said:


> I've edited the opening of your impressions so we know which product you're actually referring to.
> 
> Good to read more generally - more likeable than IE900...impressive.


Heh thanks! I've gone ahead and edited my post to mention the model too 

In regards to IE900, to be fair, I'm just saying tuning is better on TWX9, though realistically the technicals of the IE900 are superior. TWX9 is no slouch, it outclasses many sub 1K iem's that are wired!

That being said, I think I'd feel more content spending my money on TWX9 at the end of the day!


----------



## Nostoi

dleblanc343 said:


> Heh thanks! I've gone ahead and edited my post to mention the model too
> 
> In regards to IE900, to be fair, I'm just saying tuning is better on TWX9, though realistically the technicals of the IE900 are superior. TWX9 is no slouch, it outclasses many sub 1K iem's that are wired!
> 
> That being said, I think I'd feel more content spending my money on TWX9 at the end of the day!


Sounds good. Form factor looks so good on these; really not a fan of the bulbous shape on my wireless buds. These actually look comfortable with a good fit. 

Do you have much experience with other AT headphones? For example, can you compare with MSR7B or WP900?


----------



## dleblanc343

Nostoi said:


> Sounds good. Form factor looks so good on these; really not a fan of the bulbous shape on my wireless buds. These actually look comfortable with a good fit.
> 
> Do you have much experience with other AT headphones? For example, can you compare with MSR7B or WP900?


Both those headphones sound similar and are a bit thin up top.

I think the TWX9 is loosely similar in tuning but with the bass being more controlled and treble just a smidge less metallic, though still keeping appropriate energy.

I'd rate it as TWX9 > WP900 > MSR7b. The two headphones are actually quite similar sounding, more so than the iem


----------



## Nostoi

dleblanc343 said:


> Both those headphones sound similar and are a bit thin up top.
> 
> I think the TWX9 is loosely similar in tuning but with the bass being more controlled and treble just a smidge less metallic, though still keeping appropriate energy.
> 
> I'd rate it as TWX9 > WP900 > MSR7b. The two headphones are actually quite similar sounding, more so than the iem


Dang, nice. 

Have ordered on Amazon Japan, though they're out of stock right now. Hopefully soon.


----------



## Juturna (Sep 8, 2022)

whitete said:


> I have both the L3P and A40. I think the A40 sounds better and I especially like the small form of the A40. Also the A40 is cheaper. The only problem I’ve had with the A40 is that the buds don’t always charge in the case. I think the contacts don’t always match up. I’ve been in touch with Soundcore and they’ve been very helpful, as you would expect. So far the A40s are my favorite TWS.


I have the same issue regarding the charging pins/connectors with my L3Ps. Or no, _had (*cries*). _

I don't think the the A40 can beat the L3Ps for me. Maybe out of the box, un-EQd, but with my EQ in Wavelet and the Soundcore app, I don't see the A40 touching them. Would love to be wrong though. The L3Ps are my favorite TWSs so far.


----------



## C_Lindbergh

Can the app and voice prompts be set to English for the ATH TW9?


----------



## jant71 (Sep 8, 2022)

C_Lindbergh said:


> Can the app and voice prompts be set to English for the ATH TW9?


Bought a few AT from Japan. The prompts have always been in English and the app is a no brainer.
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=jp.co.audiotechnica.connect&hl=en_US&gl=US


----------



## jmwant

dleblanc343 said:


> *ATH-TWX9 *First impressions when touching the product is WOW, they’re so premium looking and feeling. The opening/ closing action of the case is addicting to play with, it feels so good. So do the magnets when snapping the iem back in its case.
> 
> The led light sequence when the UV decontaminates the earphones is also very satisfying. It all looks top notch and premium.
> 
> ...



More preferred than the ie900? I was looking for something to replace IEMs, hoping this would be it.


----------



## cresny

clerkpalmer said:


> High praise. Ordered. I'm holding you fully responsible if they are not the equivalent of angels singing into my ears ....


Ordered as well. But I will blame you, @clerkpalmer if I don't immediately fall into a rhapsodic stupor. Just because.


----------



## feverfive

From what reputable *ATH-TWX9* seller are people in the U.S. buying from?  I see Amazon.jp is out of stock.  I had been holding out to buy my first TWS till the Airpods Pro 2 were announced (I am an atypical use case:  want TWS strictly for use with my Macbook Pro for video conf calls; Youtube and Netflix consumption; I'll literally never use with my iPhone), the APP2 don't seem very compelling to me for *my* use case anyway.


----------



## C_Lindbergh (Sep 8, 2022)

I've also ordered the ATH-TWX9 from Amazon.jp! But who knows, maybe something else launches before it gets shipped 

@dleblanc343 

Do the ATH-TWX9 pass the "sleep test"?, I.E laying down on the side on a pillow, without disturbing the fit significantly? Judging from your pic they seem kinda snug, so might work!

Also how do you find the amp? Is there plenty of db to dish out?


----------



## Phaethon

I find the changes made for the APP2 to be uninspiring. I use the APP when I need the Apple features and lots of others to listen to music.


----------



## cresny

feverfive said:


> From what reputable *ATH-TWX9* seller are people in the U.S. buying from?  I see Amazon.jp is out of stock.  I had been holding out to buy my first TWS till the Airpods Pro 2 were announced (I am an atypical use case:  want TWS strictly for use with my Macbook Pro for video conf calls; Youtube and Netflix consumption; I'll literally never use with my iPhone), the APP2 don't seem very compelling to me for *my* use case anyway.


I think we all bought from Amazon Japan. Yes, it's out of stock but the exchange rate happens to be very favorable right now. I expect it would cost more in the US, especially with tax and shipping


----------



## nekonhime

Anyone interested in this earbuds?
https://www.digitaltrends.com/home-theater/angry-miao-cyberblade-review/


----------



## cresny

Here's a pretty good review of the ATH-TWX9, survives translation pretty well. https://joshinweb.jp/sound/ath_twx9.html?ACK=REP&CKV=220905


----------



## Caipirina

Got very lucky!
Had 5 minutes playtime with the new Bose, of which at least 2 went for proper connection to app (despite the buds being already connected and playing music, the app forced me to put them back in the case)

Anyways. Super short impression with no chance of changing tips / bands.
Overall they are at least on par with the previous model. But am I blown away? Nope. But maybe with a more proper fit (though it did not feel too bad.


----------



## clerkpalmer

nekonhime said:


> Anyone interested in this earbuds?
> https://www.digitaltrends.com/home-theater/angry-miao-cyberblade-review/


Interesting but nah. 


Caipirina said:


> Got very lucky!
> Had 5 minutes playtime with the new Bose, of which at least 2 went for proper connection to app (despite the buds being already connected and playing music, the app forced me to put them back in the case)
> 
> Anyways. Super short impression with no chance of changing tips / bands.
> Overall they are at least on par with the previous model. But am I blown away? Nope. But maybe with a more proper fit (though it did not feel too bad.


On par with a 2 year old version? For more money? Let's just say 5 minutes isn't enough. Bose isn't know to push out garbage.


----------



## Caipirina

clerkpalmer said:


> Interesting but nah.
> 
> On par with a 2 year old version? For more money? Let's just say 5 minutes isn't enough. Bose isn't know to push out garbage.


I hope so too. At least they are not worse. But somehow I had expected that kind of WOW moment I had back then with the APP … maybe we have already reached the pinnacle of ANC? 

Tried a few others. Huawei FBP2 and those guys:


I possibly would have taken the ATH twx9 home (great fit!) but they were sold out here as well.


----------



## nekonhime

Caipirina said:


> I hope so too. At least they are not worse. But somehow I had expected that kind of WOW moment I had back then with the APP … maybe we have already reached the pinnacle of ANC?
> 
> Tried a few others. Huawei FBP2 and those guys:
> 
> ...


Did you have a chance to have some impression about the sq or anc?


----------



## Caipirina

nekonhime said:


> Did you have a chance to have some impression about the sq or anc?


You mean the Bose? I pretty much felt like they delivered the exact same as my QC I in terms of SQ. As for ANC, I hope some day I can try to train / plane. There might also be a better tip / band combo.
For those who don’t have the og Bose QC earbuds, this is a buy recommendation (if you like the Bose house sound) … for me it does not feel like an upgrade… but that’s just me with 5 minutes play time. Was hoping for WOW …


----------



## nekonhime

Caipirina said:


> You mean the Bose? I pretty much felt like they delivered the exact same as my QC I in terms of SQ. As for ANC, I hope some day I can try to train / plane. There might also be a better tip / band combo.
> For those who don’t have the og Bose QC earbuds, this is a buy recommendation (if you like the Bose house sound) … for me it does not feel like an upgrade… but that’s just me with 5 minutes play time. Was hoping for WOW …


No no, I mean the ath twx9


----------



## Caipirina

nekonhime said:


> No no, I mean the ath twx9


I found the SQ to be detailed and dynamic. Sounded like ‘quality’ … not sure how to put in words.  
The fit seemed fantastic even though I did not get eartips to exchange, liked the physical buttons.
The whole package feels premium. 
The ANC is very good but not Bose / XM4 level imho (but not ideal testing environment )


----------



## nekonhime

Caipirina said:


> I found the SQ to be detailed and dynamic. Sounded like ‘quality’ … not sure how to put in words.
> The fit seemed fantastic even though I did not get eartips to exchange, liked the physical buttons.
> The whole package feels premium.
> The ANC is very good but not Bose / XM4 level imho (but not ideal testing environment )


Damn now I am tempted to buy it. Btw, how is it compare to the fokus pro in sq in your opinion?


----------



## Caipirina

nekonhime said:


> Damn now I am tempted to buy it. Btw, how is it compare to the fokus pro in sq in your opinion?


Was too brief for in depth, also stopped really listening when I saw that at that price I am not getting ANC? With my old brass ears that would be pearls before swines.


----------



## clerkpalmer

cresny said:


> I think we all bought from Amazon Japan. Yes, it's out of stock but the exchange rate happens to be very favorable right now. I expect it would cost more in the US, especially with tax and shipping


A few on ebay pushing $500 USD.  I'll go with $225 from Amazon.jp.  I assume they will get some but if they don't, I'll survive.  Look cool though.


----------



## clerkpalmer

Caipirina said:


> You mean the Bose? I pretty much felt like they delivered the exact same as my QC I in terms of SQ. As for ANC, I hope some day I can try to train / plane. There might also be a better tip / band combo.
> For those who don’t have the og Bose QC earbuds, this is a buy recommendation (if you like the Bose house sound) … for me it does not feel like an upgrade… but that’s just me with 5 minutes play time. Was hoping for WOW …


Fully expect the Bose to sound the same.  Bose is Bose when it comes to sound quality.  Techradar claims the ANC is the best they've ever heard.  While I"ve always found them comfy, the stay hear wing tips regularly slide out of my ears so I'm hoping they've fixed that.


----------



## clerkpalmer

cresny said:


> Ordered as well. But I will blame you, @clerkpalmer if I don't immediately fall into a rhapsodic stupor. Just because.


It's always my fault so that's fine.  Just ask my wife.


----------



## Pansbjorne (Sep 9, 2022)

clerkpalmer said:


> A few on ebay pushing $500 USD.  I'll go with $225 from Amazon.jp.  I assume they will get some but if they don't, I'll survive.  Look cool though.



Didn't realize the exchange rate was so good right now. Just ordered a pair... for arrival in October/November lol


----------



## subguy812

Pansbjorne said:


> Came out to 2
> 
> Didn't realize the exchange rate was so good right now. Just ordered a pair... for arrival in October/November lol


I couldn't get the order to go through to US I tried 10 days ago when I saw them there


----------



## clerkpalmer

subguy812 said:


> I couldn't get the order to go through to US I tried 10 days ago when I saw them there


No issues for me.  Maybe try again.


----------



## subguy812 (Sep 9, 2022)

clerkpalmer said:


> No issues for me.  Maybe try again.


Did you have to create another address for JP amazon

edit: got it..I could have done it 10 days ago, it was my mistake


----------



## Pansbjorne

subguy812 said:


> I couldn't get the order to go through to US I tried 10 days ago when I saw them there



I got a message saying it was out of stock, but refreshed the page and it went through. Though low stock could be why the arrival date is so far out.


----------



## clerkpalmer

subguy812 said:


> Did you have to create another address for JP amazon


I didn't.  It worked through my existing Prime account.


----------



## Sam L

I'm in trouble.... I "accidentally" order the APP2, while I've been waiting actively for the new Bose tws. Logic dictates that I should hold off on the new bose at this point, which I intend to do, unless someone posts a favorable review of the new bose tws.

What are the chances that there won't be a bose tws post?


----------



## howdy

Anyone hear if the Bose QCII buds will be able to be used independently? Sometimes at work I just put one in so it would be nice to use both. Youd think Bose being owned by MIT that they would be more innovative, it sucks that they raised the price and don't have wireless charging or new codecs.


----------



## BooleanBones

dleblanc343 said:


> *ATH-TWX9 *First impressions when touching the product is WOW, they’re so premium looking and feeling. The opening/ closing action of the case is addicting to play with, it feels so good. So do the magnets when snapping the iem back in its case.
> 
> The led light sequence when the UV decontaminates the earphones is also very satisfying. It all looks top notch and premium.
> 
> ...


How's the transparency mode? I feel my wallet trying to open in my pocket already.


----------



## Tommy C

BooleanBones said:


> How's the transparency mode? I feel my wallet trying to open in my pocket already.


Do it. We have faith in you!


----------



## FYLegend

whitete said:


> I have both the L3P and A40. I think the A40 sounds better and I especially like the small form of the A40. Also the A40 is cheaper. The only problem I’ve had with the A40 is that the buds don’t always charge in the case. I think the contacts don’t always match up. I’ve been in touch with Soundcore and they’ve been very helpful, as you would expect. So far the A40s are my favorite TWS.


By "better" are you referring to the overall tuning or detail retrieval?  Though the tuning could be better, I wish I had something with the L3P's level of detail and bass impact but in the form factor of the A40. 

The L3P has a similar issue with the buds not charging, but I don't encounter it frequently. Sometimes one bud (usually the left one if I recall) powers off thinking it's in the case when I take them out. I have noticed the circular contact on the left bud has developed some wear/corrosion. Other times the buds don't properly power off when I put them in the case and I don't find out until the morning when I get a notification on my phone saying the earbuds are low on battery.


----------



## dweaver

FYLegend said:


> By "better" are you referring to the overall tuning or detail retrieval?  Though the tuning could be better, I wish I had something with the L3P's level of detail and bass impact but in the form factor of the A40.


I don't think the A40 will have the same bass quantity but I am really enjoying the level detail the A40 give and have been surprised a few times by how nice the sound stage is in size and 3D spatial qualities. My best TWS setup is the Fiio FH5 and UTW5S which has a great 3D presentation. The A40 is not quite to that combos level but has more of it's qualities than any of my other standard TWS and that includes models like the Status Between Pro which also sports a hybrid setup like the L3P and the older L2P.


----------



## Caipirina (Sep 10, 2022)

now that the Bose & APP2 wait is over and the hype reviews are about to pour in ...

How do we feel about the next Sony XM5 TWS?   Or won't there be any? All Linkbuds now?

In hindsight, I think what had me a bit less enthused when testing the Bose QC 2 was that on that day I only had my Free Byrds with me for a/b .. and those are still very hard to beat IMHO. Just to clarify, I think those new Bose have the potential to be very awesome buds and maybe new ANC kings, since one can theoretically achieve proper seal with the right tip/band combo. The sound is as good as Bose has always been. Personally I do miss the stay hear tips, but the fit I got from the (I guess M tip / M band) was a pretty good start) .

I am pretty sure I will eventually end up buying the new Bose, but I might wait until I catch a good deal maybe around xmas ... I am in no dire need of new TWS, something I always keep telling myself ...


----------



## erockg

BooleanBones said:


> How's the transparency mode? I feel my wallet trying to open in my pocket already.


Oddly enough, I didn't pull the trigger. I'm never blown away by the Audio Technica buds. Hope I'm proven wrong!


----------



## cresny

erockg said:


> Oddly enough, I didn't pull the trigger. I'm never blown away by the Audio Technica buds. Hope I'm proven wrong!


best full review I've seen, note the part about heavy metal attack  https://pragma-life.com/ath-twx9-review/


----------



## C_Lindbergh

cresny said:


> best full review I've seen, note the part about heavy metal attack  https://pragma-life.com/ath-twx9-review/


Hyped! Shame about the waiting time :/


----------



## Luke Skywalker

Caipirina said:


> now that the Bose & APP2 wait is over and the hype reviews are about to pour in ...
> 
> How do we feel about the next Sony XM5 TWS?   Or won't there be any? All Linkbuds now?
> 
> ...


I actually didn’t even like the XM3. Probably my least favorite I own and they sit in a drawer. I should get around to selling them some time


----------



## Caipirina

Luke Skywalker said:


> I actually didn’t even like the XM3. Probably my least favorite I own and they sit in a drawer. I should get around to selling them some time


I feel similar about the xm3, bought them because of ‘those are the best’ and when I managed to get them for 140$ ,.. but recently tried again, yes, they sound great, but they do have connection issues. At least my set. 

The XM4 on the other hand I really really like a Lot. Belongs to the 5 sets that all tie for places 1-3


----------



## Juturna

FYLegend said:


> By "better" are you referring to the overall tuning or detail retrieval?  Though the tuning could be better, I wish I had something with the L3P's level of detail and bass impact but in the form factor of the A40.
> 
> The L3P has a similar issue with the buds not charging, but I don't encounter it frequently. Sometimes one bud (usually the left one if I recall) powers off thinking it's in the case when I take them out. I have noticed the circular contact on the left bud has developed some wear/corrosion. Other times the buds don't properly power off when I put them in the case and I don't find out until the morning when I get a notification on my phone saying the earbuds are low on battery.


That's definitely something I would want as well. The L3P's are poorly tuned with the stock EQ but they clearly have some great hardware in there because it can be tuned to sound just amazing. I actually wouldn't mind a leaner and faster/more natural bass response than the L3P's (but I still want it to be able to rumble with the best of them when it's warranted), but what I definitely don't want to compromise on is that great sound stage and the detail retrieval and those sparkly highs. 
I also had issues with the buds not charging properly in the case, I think for my case it could be as easy as the connectors having just being a bit dirty, wiping them usually helped. But it was frustrating as **** charging the case for a couple of hours, only to pop the earbuds in and the left one is like "Battery low" right away.  

Right now I'm thinking of buying another pair of L3P's, A40's, Bose QC Buds II, Fokus Pro or... something else, haven't really decided yet.


----------



## gabriely

Pulled the trigger on the B&O EX. It's expensive for sure, and it has its problems, but it's pretty to look at and it's damn comfy. 

Plus, IP57 is great because these will be my gym & sports buds - I'm looking forward to wearing it in the pool 🤣


----------



## Caipirina

gabriely said:


> Pulled the trigger on the B&O EX. It's expensive for sure, and it has its problems, *but it's pretty to look at *and it's damn comfy.
> 
> Plus, IP57 is great because these will be my gym & sports buds - *I'm looking forward to wearing it in the pool *🤣



I respect and admire your priorities, sir


----------



## Maxximum (Sep 11, 2022)

Does anyone have issue of totally random loud (compared to the music, not super loud) pop when listening to music (via aptx on Android) with B&O Beoplay E8 Sport (or normal e8 v3)? It especially sucks when it happens when lying on bed chilling. It feels like a jump scare 

I contacted the support and they recommended a reset. It helped for a week or maybe a bit more so but it started to happen again. Before the reset, it could happen once everyday or once every other day.


----------



## jmwant

nekonhime said:


> Anyone interested in this earbuds?
> https://www.digitaltrends.com/home-theater/angry-miao-cyberblade-review/


The name made me click the link. Very unique design.


----------



## FYLegend

dweaver said:


> I don't think the A40 will have the same bass quantity but I am really enjoying the level detail the A40 give and have been surprised a few times by how nice the sound stage is in size and 3D spatial qualities. My best TWS setup is the Fiio FH5 and UTW5S which has a great 3D presentation. The A40 is not quite to that combos level but has more of it's qualities than any of my other standard TWS and that includes models like the Status Between Pro which also sports a hybrid setup like the L3P and the older L2P.


Before the L3P, I thought the best-sounding ones I had tried were the 1More Dual Driver, but I returned them due to the fit and also suspect that I got a dud with channel imbalance, as the left bud seemed brighter. In terms of detail they seem similar to the L3P but the 1Mores sound detailed and metallic despite the treble being comparatively darker. I was rather disappointed with its ANC but feel the L3P is only slightly better. Neither does a good job with a more "diffused" loud noise like an old grumbly Mark I Skytrain. If I recall, Samsung Galaxy Buds 2 did a better job at reducing this type of noise.

Not sure if this is really a BA/hybrid thing but I do find dynamics to work well all-around but tend to miss the mark for detail retrieval for me...



Juturna said:


> That's definitely something I would want as well. The L3P's are poorly tuned with the stock EQ but they clearly have some great hardware in there because it can be tuned to sound just amazing. I actually wouldn't mind a leaner and faster/more natural bass response than the L3P's (but I still want it to be able to rumble with the best of them when it's warranted), but what I definitely don't want to compromise on is that great sound stage and the detail retrieval and those sparkly highs.
> I also had issues with the buds not charging properly in the case, I think for my case it could be as easy as the connectors having just being a bit dirty, wiping them usually helped. But it was frustrating as **** charging the case for a couple of hours, only to pop the earbuds in and the left one is like "Battery low" right away.
> 
> Right now I'm thinking of buying another pair of L3P's, A40's, Bose QC Buds II, Fokus Pro or... something else, haven't really decided yet.


I tried making my own custom EQ dropping it around 400 hz and in the upper-mid treble, but felt like the bass couldn't be turned down much without losing its impact, and the treble was difficult to tone down as well. I'm guessing the EQ in the app has some weird limiter and Q values, so the subbass is still "puffy" when you turn everything down.

Sadly Wavelet works badly with the L3P and its AutoEQ preset has some awful clipping in certain tracks. There was one user who claimed the only way to get good tuning close to Harman is to turn down the volume in the stock app and then use PowerAmp EQ.


----------



## Evshrug

cresny said:


> For these, the planar driver is the "tweeter". The "woofer" is a multi-magnet dynamic driver, and it does deliver plenty of sub base. I've been using mine daily since I got them off of Amazon UK, but reports are that the very similar Oppo Enco X2 is better. It seems that there is a sort of an anti-stem bias, but for me it's the opposite for a number of reasons. These have click controls, and the up down swipe of the stem has been the most useful TWS volume control I've experienced. If the Oppos have the same, and I'm guessing they do then I would go for those at around $150.


Makes sense to me... each driver type has inherent advantages and disadvantages. Planar treble benefits from the lightweight transducer membrane, but the limited excursion necessitates a larger surface area to create enough air displacement for bass, plus they are a flat membrane attached firmly at the edges to a rigid frame (something Dan Clark Audio tries to rectify with their accordion "v-fold" driver design, ironically making them similar to the stiff cones and elastic membrane surrounding dynamic drivers). Using a Planar for highs and Dynamic driver for mids and lows seems logical with an in-ear where space is a premium!

Are the Oppo Enco X2 available in the United States?


----------



## Luke Skywalker

So I bought some UM Indigos and they have electrostatic and bone conduction. It makes me wonder if those technologies will make it into TWS buds at some point


----------



## nekonhime

jmwant said:


> The name made me click the link. Very unique


Please buy it and review lol. Those seem cool btw


Evshrug said:


> Makes sense to me... each driver type has inherent advantages and disadvantages. Planar treble benefits from the lightweight transducer membrane, but the limited excursion necessitates a larger surface area to create enough air displacement for bass, plus they are a flat membrane attached firmly at the edges to a rigid frame (something Dan Clark Audio tries to rectify with their accordion "v-fold" driver design, ironically making them similar to the stiff cones and elastic membrane surrounding dynamic drivers). Using a Planar for highs and Dynamic driver for mids and lows seems logical with an in-ear where space is a premium!
> 
> Are the Oppo Enco X2 available in the United States?


No, but you can buy it via ebay or aliexpress


----------



## gabriely

Caipirina said:


> I respect and admire your priorities, sir


Hahahahahaha thank you! 🤣

I had a pair of Noble Fokus Pros that I sold off - sounds great when they do work, but my pair was plagued by so much connection troubles it just wasn't an enjoyable experience. 

These buds are really nice - but they're super shallow in the ear. This does help make them really comfy, but noise isolation, ANC and transparency is, as a result, absolutely terrible. The LG FP9 sounded great too and was superb value at that price point, but fit was a bit weird for me so I just bit the bullet on these.

I couldn't demo the audio-technica buds here in Singapore sadly - I was really keen on that, but with TWS buds I make it a point to only buy what I can audition because fit/comfort is a such a big part of what makes or breaks products in this category for me. I know I could just buy stuff on Amazon and abuse their return policy, but I'm personally trying my best not to generate too much e-waste so here I am for now...


----------



## Juturna

gosh, I really don't have any good choices for earbuds right now! Went back to my Devialet Geminis, and after EQ:ing I actually started to like them ok, but less than a day in and I'm already close to getting actual sores on the inside of my outer ear. They are SO damn uncomfortable. 
I went back to my Galaxy Buds Pro now and not only do they sound so flat after the dynamic sound of the Geminis, I also know for a fact that they're not great for my ears... I don't think I'm allergic like the people who had the worst response to them, but I get really wet earwax by using them and it doesn't feel super healthy, as soon as I stopped using them when I first got my L3Ps my ears went back to normal for the first time since I started using my GBPs... 

Can't wait until my next pay check so I can buy some new buds.


----------



## Luke Skywalker

gabriely said:


> Hahahahahaha thank you! 🤣
> 
> I had a pair of Noble Fokus Pros that I sold off - sounds great when they do work, but my pair was plagued by so much connection troubles it just wasn't an enjoyable experience.
> 
> ...


I wonder if those who who are having connection issues with FoKus are using Android? I’ve never had a single issue with AAC -> iPhone 12 Pro Max


----------



## Juturna

This is so goddamn weird though. My Sony WF-1000XM3's that broke about a year and a half ago where the right (i think) earbud stopped working completely... well, I just tried them now and I realized 2 things: 1) Both of them work again... this has happened once before so it's bound to break again before the day is over or something. 2) they sounded a lot better than I remember them doing, weird.


----------



## Luke Skywalker

Juturna said:


> This is so goddamn weird though. My Sony WF-1000XM3's that broke about a year and a half ago where the right (i think) earbud stopped working completely... well, I just tried them now and I realized 2 things: 1) Both of them work again... this has happened once before so it's bound to break again before the day is over or something. 2) they sounded a lot better than I remember them doing, weird.


Although I could never get sound that I liked from them despite endless tinkering with EQ settings, they functioned flawlessly. The NC is great and in my opinion they're the best for voice calls


----------



## gabriely

Luke Skywalker said:


> I wonder if those who who are having connection issues with FoKus are using Android? I’ve never had a single issue with AAC -> iPhone 12 Pro Max



I'm on an iPhone 11 Pro Max myself - so it is probably not that. Whatever the issue is, it's genuinely unfortunate - I really wanted to love that pair a lot more!


----------



## HaliHarry

I’m using Victor tws to do my main earbuds but anc is too bad. I want to by 1 more comfortable fit earbuds and wondering between Galaxy buds2 pro and Huawei Freebuds pro 2. Someone tell me which one have better sound and anc. Thank so much


----------



## whitete

FYLegend said:


> By "better" are you referring to the overall tuning or detail retrieval?  Though the tuning could be better, I wish I had something with the L3P's level of detail and bass impact but in the form factor of the A40.


I’m no expert evaluator like so many on this forum. And thank you for helping me to be more specific. I think I like the tuning of the A40 better than the L3P.  Also, the A40 battery is much better. I totally agree that the form factor of the A40 is a winner. Similar to the Soundpeats Mini Pro but without the connection problems.


----------



## clerkpalmer

Anyone using Apple Music on Android have a solution for it running in the background all day? This is my second android with the problem. It runs all day long unless I deep sleep it.


----------



## Caipirina

Juturna said:


> gosh, I really don't have any good choices for earbuds right now! Went back to my Devialet Geminis, and after EQ:ing I actually started to like them ok,


Funny this 'going back to things' ... yesterday I went back to the Mifo 05 (BA version) and still loving this one a lot ... then I checked what might be my oldest, still working TWS? Well, the Jabra Active Elite I had bought in 4/2017 have been battery dead for a while now .. and my first pair of Bose SSF from 12/17 followed a similar path (but I recently bought a very gently used pair for cheap and used it on a 15K run just 2 days ago) .. which makes my 'oldest' still working set the Sony WF-1000X ! Bought in June 2018 from amazon warehouse for an incredible 9€!!! (They were released in Sept 2017) ... No idea how long the battery still lasts, I think it was ever only rated at 3h ... so, even 2 would be good ...


----------



## DDDYKI

clerkpalmer said:


> Anyone using Apple Music on Android have a solution for it running in the background all day? This is my second android with the problem. It runs all day long unless I deep sleep it.


Can't say I've noticed an issue on my S22 Ultra, which already has trash battery life even before I started using Apple Music. However, the Apple Music widget doesn't always update the currently playing track.


----------



## nekonhime

clerkpalmer said:


> Anyone using Apple Music on Android have a solution for it running in the background all day? This is my second android with the problem. It runs all day long unless I deep sleep it.


I guess just turn off the background data


----------



## dleblanc343

Luke Skywalker said:


> So I bought some UM Indigos and they have electrostatic and bone conduction. It makes me wonder if those technologies will make it into TWS buds at some point


How are you liking those?

Currently one of my 2 favorite end game iem’s


----------



## FYLegend

Any impressions on the Audio-Technica ATH-SQTW here?

Surprised that it only has SBC but if done right it probably isn't a dealbreaker. A friend recently picked it up, not a serious listener but he said it has good vocals and detail but not a lot of bass.


----------



## webvan (Sep 13, 2022)

Caipirina said:


> now that the Bose & APP2 wait is over and the hype reviews are about to pour in ...
> 
> How do we feel about the next Sony XM5 TWS?   Or won't there be any? All Linkbuds now?
> 
> ...


Lucky you, already been able to test the QCII ?
With a tight seal they probably won't work for running though. Talking of which it seems my trusty X12 are finally giving up the ghost after 4 years of use (got them around Xmas 2018 I believe) with the volume in the left earbud now very low. I have some Aftershockz but the music does not sound as nice (no bass at all) and the "thump" was there with all the other options I've tried. They X12 can still be found so I might pick up another pair.


----------



## Caipirina

webvan said:


> Lucky you, already been able to test the QCII ?
> With a tight seal they probably won't work for running though.


My thoughts exactly, but will most likely end up getting them anyways. Seems I developed a certain ignorance towards the ‘thud’, was running 15K with the Free Byrds today, which I did not expect to be that passable for running. Had to re-adjust fit a few times, but otherwise all good & great sound. 

Sorry to hear about your X12, mine have just become to hassle some, baby sitting them while they charge, foams on and off. And I doooo like my ANC while running


----------



## webvan

When running in noisy environments it would certainly help, fortunately it's rarely my case. Even with the APP1 that were supposed to have some "vents" to avoid the "thump" I wasn't very convinced and I could hear some "tearing" that was probably due to interference with the ANC. I'm surprised there haven't been more X12 designs over the years, surely the "runner's thump" must annoy many people !


----------



## jant71

Jabra review... https://www-phileweb-com.translate....9.html?_x_tr_sl=ja&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en-US


----------



## ddlo

saw the news about ath-twx9 and i immediately pre-ordered from amazon.  but right on the release day, amazon cut the price by 10%! thanks for the processing speed of amazon, i could cut the pre-order and placed a new order to make some saving  (for the price of receiving it a few days later)  

the packaging, the looks and feel of the case and tws are all top notch! i dare to say much better than the much more expensive overears (e.g. WP900/AWAS/AWKT) i had.  economies of scale were proven once again here.

pairing and the app (downloaded from google play store) both work very smoothly.  it played a few test tune to setup the headphone but i didn't see anything set in the EQ.  not sure what's the purpose.  like sony, it also got 360 reality audio that could be used with tidal and a few other services.  i couldn't manage to take the photo to set it up yet. . . 

besides the customizable touch panels, each earbud also has a button on the stem! that's really rare design.  haven't got the chance to test the UV sanitizer yet.

very powerful bass and fun sounding tws as expected from ATH.  there're a lot established names in this very competitive market.  hope ATH will score and keep release better model.


----------



## nekonhime

jant71 said:


> Jabra review... https://www-phileweb-com.translate....9.html?_x_tr_sl=ja&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en-US


Goddamn 799 for a hearing aid


----------



## dleblanc343

FYLegend said:


> Any impressions on the Audio-Technica ATH-SQTW here?
> 
> Surprised that it only has SBC but if done right it probably isn't a dealbreaker. A friend recently picked it up, not a serious listener but he said it has good vocals and detail but not a lot of bass.


I actually use SQ1TW for jogging. It's really hard to beat for the low price tag. Not as good as Airpods Pro but not too far off if looking at just sound quality!

Fits well, sounds good and L/R indicators are LED's so easy operation at night time/ low visibility. Not too many bells & whistles but it doesn't need it 


Saw this this morning too https://www.techradar.com/reviews/audio-technica-ath-sq1tw


----------



## dj24

I'm seeing the Jabra Elite 7 Pro for about $83 at some places.  'Worth it at this price?


----------



## PixelSquish

My post about Sennheiser customer service being poor was incorrect and I will explain why. I put in a customer service request through their website. I got an automated email response shortly after with a case number, and that said I could respond to that email as well. After a week of hearing nothing, I responded. Then nothing from them still. Another email from me, nothing. So then I called them a few weeks later.

Well it wasn't them and it wasn't me, because I called and they have a ticket open with Google because for Gmail users, their responses are going to spam. I never thought to check spam since the automatic response email came through just fine, so it made it to my inbox fine. I only check spam if I don't get a response I expect. Once one comes through, then the next one always does.

So I check my spam and voila, responses from Sennheiser. Anyways I sent out my MTW3 for a warranty replacement today to their address in CT. 

So for anyone with Gmail not getting a response to your emails, check your spam until Google fixes their email.


----------



## clerkpalmer

nekonhime said:


> Goddamn 799 for a hearing aid


That's actually a pretty good price. Historically they are like 2k and up.


----------



## regancipher

Finally got the FreeBuds Pro 2....wow. Really nice tuning, rich but not overwhelming subbass with a subtle dip around the 1-300Hz perfect for soprano vocals, trebles are very nice too. Kick drums don't just sound punchy, they're crisp and resolution is excellent. Soundstage is nicely spaced out, just listened to an AWS training video and one of the clips the tams sounded right at the edges  Only problem is the proprietary tips, the Azla I had on the original freebuds won't fit because the rim is too narrow and the case too small. The Feaulle h370 fit OK but don't seem especially stable. H370+ don't seem to stay on. Settled on misodiko foam tips which just about fit but can leave your ears pretty achy. Have to try and find a solution as not sure I want to part with buds sounding this good in a hurry


----------



## DynamicEars

regancipher said:


> Finally got the FreeBuds Pro 2....wow. Really nice tuning, rich but not overwhelming subbass with a subtle dip around the 1-300Hz perfect for soprano vocals, trebles are very nice too. Kick drums don't just sound punchy, they're crisp and resolution is excellent. Soundstage is nicely spaced out, just listened to an AWS training video and one of the clips the tams sounded right at the edges  Only problem is the proprietary tips, the Azla I had on the original freebuds won't fit because the rim is too narrow and the case too small. The Feaulle h370 fit OK but don't seem especially stable. H370+ don't seem to stay on. Settled on misodiko foam tips which just about fit but can leave your ears pretty achy. Have to try and find a solution as not sure I want to part with buds sounding this good in a hurry



Been eyeing for this because of the tuning and drivers, they are special especially on bass shelf area. How is it compared to your Neobuds Pro and any Samsung buds you had / try before?


----------



## nekonhime

clerkpalmer said:


> That's actually a pretty good price. Historically they are like 2k and up.


Wait really? That is the price without insurance right?


----------



## Caipirina

Surprising exactly no one, I returned to e-earphone and caved in, pre-ordered the Bose QC II … just could not say no to the extra 10% pre-order discount. Which makes it a 229usd equivalent, incl tax. 
I had a chance for some more listening, it was less hectic, I chose better tracks. I even tried some on the spot running to listen to thudding, but I am not sure if this simulation worked at all. 
Sound wise just as I wanted, the usual Bose goodness. And I still think ANC can even be better with diff tips / bands. 

If all goes well I get my set on 29th, at least that’s the official release date. But who knows, they might ship them earlier?


----------



## smeghead

I think my AZ60s are starting to fail, or the right bud at least. I'm fairly certain it's starting to sound a bit muddy, and even if I put my volume on full blast, it seems a bit quiet. Cleaned it out and everything. Anyone else encountered this?


----------



## Juturna

smeghead said:


> I think my AZ60s are starting to fail, or the right bud at least. I'm fairly certain it's starting to sound a bit muddy, and even if I put my volume on full blast, it seems a bit quiet. Cleaned it out and everything. Anyone else encountered this?


Yep, happened to me, pretty much exactly. 
Had to get them exchanged for a new set.


----------



## Caipirina

smeghead said:


> I think my AZ60s are starting to fail, or the right bud at least. I'm fairly certain it's starting to sound a bit muddy, and even if I put my volume on full blast, it seems a bit quiet. Cleaned it out and everything. Anyone else encountered this?


Mine are still ok. But your user name makes me want to rewatch Red Dwarf now


----------



## webvan

Caipirina said:


> Surprising exactly no one, I returned to e-earphone and caved in, pre-ordered the Bose QC II … just could not say no to the extra 10% pre-order discount. Which makes it a 229usd equivalent, incl tax.
> I had a chance for some more listening, it was less hectic, I chose better tracks. I even tried some on the spot running to listen to thudding, but I am not sure if this simulation worked at all.
> Sound wise just as I wanted, the usual Bose goodness. And I still think ANC can even be better with diff tips / bands.
> 
> If all goes well I get my set on 29th, at least that’s the official release date. But who knows, they might ship them earlier?


Well done !
I remember you used the QC1 for running and were pretty happy with them ? Did you change your mind in the end ?
I ran with the Earfun Air Pro 2 (APP form factor) yesterday and it was absolutely atrocious, a "banging noise" for each foot strike although I suppose you end up getting used to it. Tried with ANC off and on, no change.


----------



## Caipirina

webvan said:


> Well done !
> I remember you used the QC1 for running and were pretty happy with them ? Did you change your mind in the end ?
> I ran with the Earfun Air Pro 2 (APP form factor) yesterday and it was absolutely atrocious, a "banging noise" for each foot strike although I suppose you end up getting used to it. Tried with ANC off and on, no change.


Yes, still using the qc1 quite often anc enjoying them. Since they are somewhat semi in ear, they don’t bang quite as hard. 

Based on our recent exchange I thought I give the old x12 another spin … and oh boy … never before did I suffer that many connection drops! I think where I was running there was just too much interference by other runners. Was not any longer a joyful experience …
I use the original APP on occasion as well, and yeah, I guess my thud tolerance has increased. I also try to find music mixes in the cadence I want to run. That helps. (Check YT for 180BPM   )


----------



## Luke Skywalker

Caipirina said:


> Surprising exactly no one, I returned to e-earphone and caved in, pre-ordered the Bose QC II … just could not say no to the extra 10% pre-order discount. Which makes it a 229usd equivalent, incl tax.
> I had a chance for some more listening, it was less hectic, I chose better tracks. I even tried some on the spot running to listen to thudding, but I am not sure if this simulation worked at all.
> Sound wise just as I wanted, the usual Bose goodness. And I still think ANC can even be better with diff tips / bands.
> 
> If all goes well I get my set on 29th, at least that’s the official release date. But who knows, they might ship them earlier?


I can't wait to hear how you like it. I have 7 or 8 TWS and the Bose are still my favorite for ones that have NC. The Noble FoKus have better sound IMHO but no NC


----------



## Hearforthemusic

The reviews on the Bose qc 2 are out. Getting very positive reviews, especially around the noise cancelling. Verge review has the Bose  guy saying they believe the noise cancelling is better than the qc45s. The CNET review just seems to suggest/tease at the end of their review that if you’re aN iPhone user, the AP2 may be better .
Decisions decisions 😀


----------



## Sam L

Hearforthemusic said:


> The reviews on the Bose qc 2 are out. Getting very positive reviews, especially around the noise cancelling. Verge review has the Bose  guy saying they believe the noise cancelling is better than the qc45s. The CNET review just seems to suggest/tease at the end of their review that if you’re aN iPhone user, the AP2 may be better .
> Decisions decisions 😀


my wallet quietly mumbles, "oh no..."


----------



## TooPoorForHiFi

Any happen to own a set of Galaxy Buds2 Pro? Are the bore oval like the Original ?


----------



## EMINENT

TooPoorForHiFi said:


> Any happen to own a set of Galaxy Buds2 Pro? Are the bore oval like the Original ?


Just got these in. They're round. 

Wanted to try them and compare to EX.


----------



## subguy812 (Sep 16, 2022)

Any EX owners able to update to 5.4 software yet? It shows its available, but I can't update


----------



## EMINENT

subguy812 said:


> Any EX owners able to update to 5.4 software yet? It shows its available, but I can't update


Yes, the thing is trash. It connected to the app but no sound is going to the buds. I gave up after waiting 20 mins for it to install and update only for it to not work.


----------



## subguy812

EMINENT said:


> Yes, the thing is trash. It connected to the app but no sound is going to the buds. I gave up after waiting 20 mins for it to install and update only for it to not work.


Maybe there was an issue with it, I saw a 5.4.9 version is out


----------



## Tstorey

Mine is showing as 5.3.6 being up to date and 5.4 shown as an “earlier release”?


----------



## BooleanBones

Tstorey said:


> Mine is showing as 5.3.6 being up to date and 5.4 shown as an “earlier release”?


+2, mine are on 5.3.6 and show "up to date" even though a newer number shows in release information.


----------



## gebri

ddlo said:


> saw the news about ath-twx9 and i immediately pre-ordered from amazon.  …
> 
> very powerful bass and fun sounding tws as expected from ATH.  there're a lot established names in this very competitive market.  hope ATH will score and keep release better model.


Hello,

As I think about getting the sennheiser momentum tws 3 it would be interesting how you compare the twx9 to the mtws? Are these mtw2 or 3 on your photo?

(I am a bit unsure with the mtw3 as some people describe them as a little bit dull.)

Thanks


----------



## ddlo

gebri said:


> Hello,
> 
> As I think about getting the sennheiser momentum tws 3 it would be interesting how you compare the twx9 to the mtws? Are these mtw2 or 3 on your photo?
> 
> ...


it's mtw3.  i'm a sennheiser fan and i really like the mtw3 a lot (but never try mtw2)! the m4w on the other hand is too fun sound tuning with too much bass. 

ath-twx9 is also fun sound tuning with heavy mid-bass.  the build quality, looks, design are great too.  if you prefer more exciting sound, probably ath is a better choice.  on both, anc is ok but not top notch (quite far from sony wf xm4).  the price of the ath-twx9 is slightly cheaper i believe.  it also got more bells and whistles like uv sanitizer, multipoint out of box and 360 reality audio.  but always, the best way to determine is to demo yourself


----------



## gebri

Ok, thank you, @ddlo for the description. This sounds as if mtw3 would be more preferable for me.

Testing in ears is a little bit difficult I think. I do not like to send them back when they are used. So I tend to order the mtw3 and hope I like them as I like the Sennheiser IE8 or better.


----------



## erockg

BooleanBones said:


> +2, mine are on 5.3.6 and show "up to date" even though a newer number shows in release information.


Updating now... no Release Notes.


----------



## freelancr

Sound Demo - Huawei Freebuds Pro 2 vs. Moondrop Variations​I compared the two IEMs because they have a similar frequency response. I'm mighty impressed by the Huawei, ymmv.








@DynamicEars


----------



## erockg

erockg said:


> Updating now... no Release Notes.


I haven't used my EX is a long time, but either I'm nuts (could be) or the ANC and Transparency sounds better.  Using Azla tips.


----------



## Markttp (Sep 16, 2022)

erockg said:


> Updating now... no Release Notes.


I'm in the same camp as others that don't show an update as available but have 5.4 showing under "earlier releases".

However, it does show release notes :-


----------



## EMINENT

First impressions of the GB2P are they sound pretty good. Good enough. Haven't a/b'd back to back but listened to them for a couple hours last night between soft/dynamic/bass boost and actually prefer soft. 

The app works much better so i'm probably going to return the EX. They just aren't worth the extra money sound quality wise. Also, the case is thinner than the GBP I had and feels nice! I like the soft rubbery feel and they're so much easier to carry than that chonk of case for EX. 

Plus, purchasing so indirectly supporting fave new artist Charli XCX as Samsung partner.


----------



## erockg (Sep 16, 2022)

Markttp said:


> I'm in the same camp as others that don't show an update as available but have 5.4 showing under "earlier releases".
> 
> However, it does show release notes :-


This is for 5.4.9.  Meaning, I just updated to 5.4.9 and no release notes.  That said, I have seen the other fw update release notes.


----------



## subguy812

erockg said:


> This is for 5.4.9.  Meaning, I just updated to 5.4.9 and no release notes.  That said, I have seen the other fw update release notes.


Must be released in cycles, still havent received it


----------



## gabriely

So I bought a B&O EX last week and had an interesting journey with it so far...

From day 1, I had an issue with the left earbud discharging battery twice as fast as the right. So both buds would be fully charged, and after some time, the left earbud would be dead and the right earbud would have 50% battery left. Was thinking my buds were defective, but I called B&O support anyway - thought maybe they might have some advice.

They told me to update my firmware to 5.4.9, and since you guys are talking about it here - I couldn't do it either, they then explained they're releasing it in cycles and "that update wasn't released for my serial number", which was interesting since they wanted me to make that update... they then asked me to try draining each bud and charging them individually... amongst other equally convoluted troubleshooting steps which I thought was ridiculous for a product at this price point.

After a week of just hoping the problem would go away I figured I would exchange these for a new unit. Brought the box to the office planning to return it in the evening after work... and of course the damn thing chooses that day to finally start working as it should. 🤣

That said now that they do work, I'm super happy with them... thankfully.


----------



## erockg

Any one find a good tip to use with the Galaxy Buds 2 Pro?  Tried a bunch and wound up going back to stock.  Causing an issue where if I wear them too long, they actually cause humidity build up of some sort and my ears are wet.  Gross and frustrating.  I'm reading it happens to some folks, like the first gen issue.


----------



## leftside

I already have the AirPod Max which do the job for when you want to listen around the house, and are moving around with your iPhone in your pocket. Great on the plane. Have more expensive headphones that obviously have better sound quality.

I'm thinking of getting the AirPod Pro 2 when they come out next week. They won't be my primary IEMs or headphones, but will be convenient with no wires for the beach, walks around the park, etc. Any other premium wireless IEMs I should consider before getting the AirPod Pro 2? Sound quality wise, I know they won't be as good as high end wired IEMs, but decentish sound quality would still be nice. Mainly listen to rock and electronic/techno.


----------



## Phaethon

erockg said:


> Any one find a good tip to use with the Galaxy Buds 2 Pro?  Tried a bunch and wound up going back to stock.  Causing an issue where if I wear them too long, they actually cause humidity build up of some sort and my ears are wet.  Gross and frustrating.  I'm reading it happens to some folks, like the first gen issue.


You’re in the walled garden of Apple, like me, right? How hampered are these buds on an iOS device?


----------



## erockg

Phaethon said:


> You’re in the walled garden of Apple, like me, right? How hampered are these buds on an iOS device?


90% Apple here.  Oddly enough, I have an iPhone and now a Fold 4.  I set them up, and they do work great on my iPhone.  Basic functions work great.  Even without the iPhone you can still use anc, play pause etc., but you can't use vol control unless you activate the lab settings with an android device.


----------



## Jhericurls (Sep 17, 2022)

erockg said:


> Any one find a good tip to use with the Galaxy Buds 2 Pro?  Tried a bunch and wound up going back to stock.  Causing an issue where if I wear them too long, they actually cause humidity build up of some sort and my ears are wet.  Gross and frustrating.  I'm reading it happens to some folks, like the first gen issue.


I've been using the Comply TrueGrip Pro Memory Foam Tips for the Sony WF-1000MX4 but work great for the Buds2 Pro. They do affect the sound slightly but it's a compromise I'm willing to make. 

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Comply-TrueGrip-Premium-Earphone-Wireless-Black/dp/B081QSLTW6

I don't like any of the stock tips, medium is the best fit for me but still lets in too much passive noise.


----------



## erockg

Jhericurls said:


> I've been using the Comply TrueGrip Pro Memory Foam Tips for the Sony WF-1000MX4 but work great for the Buds2 Pro. They do affect the sound slightly but it's a compromise I'm willing to make.
> 
> https://www.amazon.co.uk/Comply-TrueGrip-Premium-Earphone-Wireless-Black/dp/B081QSLTW6
> 
> I don't like any of the stock tips, medium is the best fit for me but still lets in too much passive noise.


Thanks.  I was considering some Comply tips.  Maybe better for ventilation.  Great buds, but that on issue is annoying for me.


----------



## erockg

Bose QCII in the house.  Wow.  So much smaller it's wonderful.  ANC is pretty pretty pretty good.  Can't mess with them until later, but so far, not disappointed.  One glaring omission is no wireless charging.  No idea why they'd omit that from gen 2.  Odd.  Fit is perfect for me.  The redesign is much better than gen 1.  Happy camper for the moment.

Comparison pics vs the AirPods Pro 1 from Colorware that will probably be sold soon.


----------



## cresny

leftside said:


> I already have the AirPod Max which do the job for when you want to listen around the house, and are moving around with your iPhone in your pocket. Great on the plane. Have more expensive headphones that obviously have better sound quality.
> 
> I'm thinking of getting the AirPod Pro 2 when they come out next week. They won't be my primary IEMs or headphones, but will be convenient with no wires for the beach, walks around the park, etc. Any other premium wireless IEMs I should consider before getting the AirPod Pro 2? Sound quality wise, I know they won't be as good as high end wired IEMs, but decentish sound quality would still be nice. Mainly listen to rock and electronic/techno.


Does ANC matter to you? If yes and you are an iPhone user then I recommend the AirPod pro 2s without hesitation.


----------



## clerkpalmer

erockg said:


> Bose QCII in the house.  Wow.  So much smaller it's wonderful.  ANC is pretty pretty pretty good.  Can't mess with them until later, but so far, not disappointed.  One glaring omission is no wireless charging.  No idea why they'd omit that from gen 2.  Odd.  Fit is perfect for me.  The redesign is much better than gen 1.  Happy camper for the moment.
> 
> Comparison pics vs the AirPods Pro 1 from Colorware that will probably be sold soon.


Mine arrived an hour ago. Same conclusion. The fit is killer. Anc is soul sucking. Sound remains very good. Nice upgrade.


----------



## webvan

Caipirina said:


> Yes, still using the qc1 quite often anc enjoying them. Since they are somewhat semi in ear, they don’t bang quite as hard.
> 
> Based on our recent exchange I thought I give the old x12 another spin … and oh boy … never before did I suffer that many connection drops! I think where I was running there was just too much interference by other runners. Was not any longer a joyful experience …
> I use the original APP on occasion as well, and yeah, I guess my thud tolerance has increased. I also try to find music mixes in the cadence I want to run. That helps. (Check YT for 180BPM   )


I tried running with my Bomaker SiFi II that I use on my home trainer normally as they have the best passive isolation I've heard (useful for the massive fan I use) and they stay in my ears reasonably well in spite of the heavy sweating.
Incredibly the "thud" was not bad at all in spite of the perfect seal and it's nice to have practically no outside noises, even the shoes hitting the ground. A real "bubble"!
Wouod


----------



## dasadab

Also got my Bose Quiet Comfort II earbuds about an hour ago.  I agree that the fit screws in with a great seal.  I haven’t had a chance to try the ANC yet.  The sound quality is punchy Bose style.  Lots of base emphasis which can be toned down with the equalizer.  I like the sound, but will neet more time to see if it might be fatiguing.  One serious issue:  The telephone quality doesn’t sound very good.  I recorded my voice on my iphone and it was not great at all.  I also noticed that when I dictate text messages it is laggy and inaccurate.  When I remove the earbuds and just dictate straight to iphone on speaker, the dictation is fast and accurate.  Hmm…


----------



## clerkpalmer

Bad news on the Bose. Software is buggy. All sorts of connection issues. Won't play. Disconnects. App doesn't work. Battery indicators seem wonky. Gonna give it some time but they are not playing nicely with my Fold.


----------



## dasadab

Mine has not been buggy, just not great phone/dictation.  It did do an update right after I set them up.


----------



## clerkpalmer

dasadab said:


> Mine has not been buggy, just not great phone/dictation.  It did do an update right after I set them up.


Android?


----------



## erockg

clerkpalmer said:


> Mine arrived an hour ago. Same conclusion. The fit is killer. Anc is soul sucking. Sound remains very good. Nice upgrade.


If you have a soul.  

Pretty impressed so far.  Honeymoon phase.  I'll put them through the paces soon.  Could've used them on an LA to NY flight, but my Momentum 4 cans did exceptionally well.


----------



## clerkpalmer

erockg said:


> If you have a soul.
> 
> Pretty impressed so far.  Honeymoon phase.  I'll put them through the paces soon.  Could've used them on an LA to NY flight, but my Momentum 4 cans did exceptionally well.


If possible I think Bose has pumped up the Bose sound. Sound like regular Bose on steroids. Booming bass. Clear highs. Sucked mids. But somehow it works.


----------



## Juturna

Shiiiii, so my current prospects for new earbuds after my L3P's decided to leave my side I'm right now down to: 

- Beyerdynamic Free Byrd
- Huawei Free Buds Pro 2 
- Oppo Enco X2
- Bose QuietComfort II
- New pair of Soundcore Liberty 3 Pro's.

Anyone who has tried any or several of these and has any input or recommendations?


----------



## Caipirina

Juturna said:


> Shiiiii, so my current prospects for new earbuds after my L3P's decided to leave my side I'm right now down to:
> 
> - Beyerdynamic Free Byrd
> - Huawei Free Buds Pro 2
> ...


Really liking my Free Byrds, but have to admit that on recent plays the L3P managed to put a big smile on my face. I am mostly listening to bouncy beat things like house, disco, garage, edm, pop … so I appreciate a nice dynamic that gets me dancing / running. 
Still waiting for my Bose 2, rls date in Japan is 29th


----------



## Juturna

Caipirina said:


> Really liking my Free Byrds, but have to admit that on recent plays the L3P managed to put a big smile on my face. I am mostly listening to bouncy beat things like house, disco, garage, edm, pop … so I appreciate a nice dynamic that gets me dancing / running.
> Still waiting for my Bose 2, rls date in Japan is 29th


Yeah that's the thing, the L3P's never fail to make me think that the music just sounds amazing, sometimes awe-inspiring because of that sound stage that can sometimes sound way larger and more 3D than you would expect from a set of TWS earbuds.
They're also half as expensive as most of the other models I mentioned which also doesn't hurt!


----------



## Jhericurls (Sep 18, 2022)

Recently received the Buds2 Pro and wanted to share some quick thoughts compared to my other buds (B&O EQ and WF-1000MX4).

My ratings:
1. Sony WF-1000MX4 (9/10)
2. Galaxy Buds2 Pro (8.5/10)
3. B&O EQ (4/10)

*Sony WF-1000MX4 - *The best all-rounder, still the ANC king that works in windy conditions.  The sound quality is really good after some tweaking of the EQ and totally competent in every department.

*Galaxy Buds2 Pro - *Impressed with how compact these are, almost half the size of the Sony. The buds disappear into my ears and are very comfortable, the most comfortable out of the 3. ANC is acceptable at about 80% performance of the Sony at a guess and can be used outside if slightly windy without too much annoyance. Sounds wise for me, they don't sound as pleasing as the Sony, quality wise they are about the same.  The Buds2 is bassy and quite forward sounding which can make it feel cramped, could it be the compact size?  It doesn't have the airy smoothness of the Sony. Connection when using a Samsung phone is great, connects instantly when you take it out of the case and have not experienced any BT drops.

*B&O EQ* - The best sounding buds, clarity and separation are unrivaled, but apart from that almost everything else is rubbish. ANC is average and only useable indoors, take it outside and if someone farts in front of you, it will sound like you're walking in gale-force winds. The buds are also on the bulky side and have a tendency to slowly try and escape from your ear hole.  It wouldn't so bad if the touch control wasn't so overly sensitive and the touch area so large, that a slight touch of the bud will launch random actions. BT connection seemed fine and not experienced any drops. But the setup process and app are just awful.


----------



## JackNarrow

Juturna said:


> Shiiiii, so my current prospects for new earbuds after my L3P's decided to leave my side I'm right now down to:
> 
> - Beyerdynamic Free Byrd
> - Huawei Free Buds Pro 2
> ...


The Free Buds Pro 2 are pretty solid... but only issue I personally have is the pinch gestures - using this gesture moves the bud too much and also fit is not perfect so ANC is not great for me (hard to find third-party tips)
Call quality is pretty solid and sound quality is nice too (liberty 3 pro still better - in fact not much can really compete with them)

Bose QC II.. wow... so disappointed - Yes ANC is fantastic! but I also wanted these for calls and call quality is inferior considering the tech involved (i got better call quality with the liberty 3 pro) also single bud mode is a none starter  - as mentioned earlier software is also buggy - overall not worth it IMHO.

I've been on the lookout for the Enco x2 for a while (but don't like white buds and it's challenging to get the other colour).

Given the current prices of the L3 Pro if you were happy with them then try and get them again (for me I just couldn't get over how big they are so I ended up not using them much )
I would rate the 1more Evo highly as well if you can get SoundID  to work for you (don't even bother with the EQ on those!)


----------



## PixelSquish

Sent my MTW3 back to Sonova last Tuesday. My replacement pair is scheduled to arrive this Tuesday. Can't wait, they are my favorite pair of buds.


----------



## EMINENT

Jhericurls said:


> Recently received the Buds2 Pro and wanted to share some quick thoughts compared to my other buds (B&O EQ and WF-1000MX4).
> 
> My ratings:
> 1. Sony WF-1000MX4 (9/10)
> ...



I don't have the XM4's anymore to a/b but did they fix the attenuation at higher volumes? That was what ticked me off about them. They just got super muddy and warm after 75% and had to go. They did have good anc though.


----------



## Jhericurls

EMINENT said:


> I don't have the XM4's anymore to a/b but did they fix the attenuation at higher volumes? That was what ticked me off about them. They just got super muddy and warm after 75% and had to go. They did have good anc though.


I don't go past 65% which is plenty loud for me


----------



## Caipirina

webvan said:


> I tried running with my Bomaker SiFi II that I use on my home trainer normally as they have the best passive isolation I've heard (useful for the massive fan I use) and they stay in my ears reasonably well in spite of the heavy sweating.
> Incredibly the "thud" was not bad at all in spite of the perfect seal and it's nice to have practically no outside noises, even the shoes hitting the ground. A real "bubble"!
> Wouod



Monkey see, monkey tried to replicate & monkey failed! I could not achieve that bubble. 

And then I came back here and realized there was a “II” behind the name  Monkey can’t read properly. 

Ran 13K in the typhoon rain yesterday with the first Bomakers. Still a solid set, but sure has a thud.


----------



## webvan

Hehe, that was brave ! The SiFi II have the "thud" too but it's not as bad as with the EarFun Air Pro 2 and you can get used to it, especially since it dampens the outside noise, like the shoes hitting the ground, which you do have with the X12s and even more with the Aftershokz. For a race you'd want to stay aware of your environment though so I'd use the Aftershokz there.


----------



## clerkpalmer

Off topic @erockg back on iPhone. I think the fold has to go. Battery life is the Achilles heel. I liked the phone but it’s a constant hassle to mange, tweak etc.  Bose sound good on the iPhone.


----------



## Juturna

JackNarrow said:


> The Free Buds Pro 2 are pretty solid... but only issue I personally have is the pinch gestures - using this gesture moves the bud too much and also fit is not perfect so ANC is not great for me (hard to find third-party tips)
> Call quality is pretty solid and sound quality is nice too (liberty 3 pro still better - in fact not much can really compete with them)
> 
> Bose QC II.. wow... so disappointed - Yes ANC is fantastic! but I also wanted these for calls and call quality is inferior considering the tech involved (i got better call quality with the liberty 3 pro) also single bud mode is a none starter  - as mentioned earlier software is also buggy - overall not worth it IMHO.
> ...


Hmm, you've given me something to think about at least! 
It's a bummer if the Bose QC II sounds bad for calls, that seems surprising with their design, and I recall Bose QC Buds (1st Gen) being known for having very respectable call quality when it came out? Sure, call quality isn't highest at my list of priorities within a TWS earbud, but I've also had some very nightmarish experiences with my older TWS earbuds where I got so damn mad as soon as I took a call that was somewhere where it wasn't completely quiet and people were always like "I CAN'T HEAR YOU, I JUST HEAR EVERYBODY ELSE AROUND YOU" *cough, WF-1000XM3, cough* and I'm not exactly looking to get back to that. 

I really don't like the look of the Oppo Enco X2 unfortunately, I find the Freebuds 2 Pro to look MUCH better, both the silver and the blue are gorgeous. I do like white earbuds though, but I'm not mad about the super plastic-y looking Airpods-like finish on the X2s. But I also don't trust Freebuds Pro 2 because they're tuned by Devialet, and I just find the Devialet Gemini to be one of the worst tuned buds in my collection of all time. 

The only thing that bothers me about the L3P's though is that I bought my first pair for $79 completely new and now they're back up at like $120-150 where I'm at.  They are worth the full retail price though, but it still stings to buy the same earbuds for almost twice the money as the first pair.


----------



## gabriely

Bang & Olufsen EX users - you may wanna check the B&O app - they've pushed firmware v5.4.9 to some more users. Seems like this update will help reflect battery %s more accurately in the app


----------



## Caipirina

webvan said:


> Hehe, that was brave ! The SiFi II have the "thud" too but it's not as bad as with the EarFun Air Pro 2 and you can get used to it, especially since it dampens the outside noise, like the shoes hitting the ground, which you do have with the X12s and even more with the Aftershokz. For a race you'd want to stay aware of your environment though so I'd use the Aftershokz there.



I am still contemplating what set to wear for the upcoming Yokohama Marathon ... most likely the Aftershokz ... but would love to take out the new Bose for that   .. I still have like 40 days to decide ...


----------



## subguy812

gabriely said:


> Bang & Olufsen EX users - you may wanna check the B&O app - they've pushed firmware v5.4.9 to some more users. Seems like this update will help reflect battery %s more accurately in the app


I noticed it this morning and updated.


----------



## Tstorey

Just doing so now 👍🏻


----------



## clerkpalmer

Juturna said:


> Hmm, you've given me something to think about at least!
> It's a bummer if the Bose QC II sounds bad for calls, that seems surprising with their design, and I recall Bose QC Buds (1st Gen) being known for having very respectable call quality when it came out? Sure, call quality isn't highest at my list of priorities within a TWS earbud, but I've also had some very nightmarish experiences with my older TWS earbuds where I got so damn mad as soon as I took a call that was somewhere where it wasn't completely quiet and people were always like "I CAN'T HEAR YOU, I JUST HEAR EVERYBODY ELSE AROUND YOU" *cough, WF-1000XM3, cough* and I'm not exactly looking to get back to that.
> 
> I really don't like the look of the Oppo Enco X2 unfortunately, I find the Freebuds 2 Pro to look MUCH better, both the silver and the blue are gorgeous. I do like white earbuds though, but I'm not mad about the super plastic-y looking Airpods-like finish on the X2s. But I also don't trust Freebuds Pro 2 because they're tuned by Devialet, and I just find the Devialet Gemini to be one of the worst tuned buds in my collection of all time.
> ...


Yeah, call quality is a bummer and still experiencing software issues.  On a call now and only getting sound out of one speaker. Won't connect to the Bose app.  Argh.


----------



## clerkpalmer

clerkpalmer said:


> Yeah, call quality is a bummer and still experiencing software issues.  On a call now and only getting sound out of one speaker. Won't connect to the Bose app.  Argh.


These Bose have enough gremlins that I'm gonna order the APP2 and see which is better.  I suspect the sound on the Bose will be better and probably the ANC since I can't fathom better ANC than what these have but the APP2 may be the better all around for ios users.


----------



## erockg

clerkpalmer said:


> Off topic @erockg back on iPhone. I think the fold has to go. Battery life is the Achilles heel. I liked the phone but it’s a constant hassle to mange, tweak etc.  Bose sound good on the iPhone.


I go back and forth.  My wife just got a 14 Pro Max and it's very nice, but huge.  Fold is easier to hold, but typing while folded is a bitch.  I'm definitely charging it more than my 13 Pro, but man, the content consumption and multitasking abilities just blow away the iPhone.  It's sad.  Apple needs to evolve, not constantly incrementally refine.  

Zero issues with the Bose on Android, or paired to my Apple TV so far.  Once paired, they force pair easily.  I'll be giving them the Zoom test all day today.  Bose will issue updates like they did with the first gen.  They alway seem to add/tweak/fix what we all miss.  I've already had one update to them after receipt.  I'm going to pay too much money and order a black pair of Colorware APP2's soon.  Unless they are panned.


----------



## clerkpalmer

erockg said:


> I go back and forth.  My wife just got a 14 Pro Max and it's very nice, but huge.  Fold is easier to hold, but typing while folded is a bitch.  I'm definitely charging it more than my 13 Pro, but man, the content consumption and multitasking abilities just blow away the iPhone.  It's sad.  Apple needs to evolve, not constantly incrementally refine.
> 
> Zero issues with the Bose on Android, or paired to my Apple TV so far.  Once paired, they force pair easily.  I'll be giving them the Zoom test all day today.  Bose will issue updates like they did with the first gen.  They alway seem to add/tweak/fix what we all miss.  I've already had one update to them after receipt.  I'm going to pay too much money and order a black pair of Colorware APP2's soon.  Unless they are panned.


I hear you. I make way too many mistakes typing on the Fold. It takes 2x as long to construct an email.


----------



## erockg

Long winded, but I find a lot here hard to disagree with:


----------



## erockg

clerkpalmer said:


> I hear you. I make way too many mistakes typing on the Fold. It takes 2x as long to construct an email.


I've tried dictation, it works, but typing and dictating are just plain flawless for me on the iPhone.  I did pick up a Galaxy Watch 5 Pro and it's fun.  I do like the round face much better than my Apple Watch.  My GAS (gear addiction syndrome for inquiring minds) was out of control for a few weeks.  Bought too many early birthday presents!


----------



## clerkpalmer

erockg said:


> I've tried dictation, it works, but typing and dictating are just plain flawless for me on the iPhone.  I did pick up a Galaxy Watch 5 Pro and it's fun.  I do like the round face much better than my Apple Watch.  My GAS (gear addiction syndrome for inquiring minds) was out of control for a few weeks.  Bought too many early birthday presents!


Maybe dictation would work.  I'm not dumping on the Fold.  It's amazing tech.  But I seem to get things done faster with the iphone as boring as it is.  I think the home run form factor for the fold will be to go wider and shorter.  Once the folder front cover is more usable to type, they will be on to something.  Maybe next year.

What's the upcharge for those black APP?  I remember looking once and thinking it was ridiculous and I'll live with white.


----------



## erockg

clerkpalmer said:


> Maybe dictation would work.  I'm not dumping on the Fold.  It's amazing tech.  But I seem to get things done faster with the iphone as boring as it is.  I think the home run form factor for the fold will be to go wider and shorter.  Once the folder front cover is more usable to type, they will be on to something.  Maybe next year.
> 
> What's the upcharge for those black APP?  I remember looking once and thinking it was ridiculous and I'll live with white.


I don't disagree with you.  And you're right, shorter, fatter would be a bit better.  Plus, swipe to type is awful on the Fold.  I'm trying, but maybe there's a better keyboard?  Google?  My Apple stuff just works seamlessly in comparison.  I dictate texts nonstop in the car.  Dangerous, I know, but with my iPhone, it was brilliant.  Android has me hitting a wall at times.  I did put magsafe on the Fold and that is working great!

I'd have to look up the cost for Colorware.  It's crazy though.  I'm just not a white earbud guy.  I'm insane and will pay the extra cost.   https://www.colorware.com/p-1345-ai...bjvm*k6z-9bkqo*k71-9bmpn&cartRecordId=0&year=


----------



## Ceeluh7

erockg said:


> I go back and forth.  My wife just got a 14 Pro Max and it's very nice, but huge.  Fold is easier to hold, but typing while folded is a bitch.  I'm definitely charging it more than my 13 Pro, but man, the content consumption and multitasking abilities just blow away the iPhone.  It's sad.  Apple needs to evolve, not constantly incrementally refine.
> 
> Zero issues with the Bose on Android, or paired to my Apple TV so far.  Once paired, they force pair easily.  I'll be giving them the Zoom test all day today.  Bose will issue updates like they did with the first gen.  They alway seem to add/tweak/fix what we all miss.  I've already had one update to them after receipt.  I'm going to pay too much money and order a black pair of Colorware APP2's soon.  Unless they are panned.


Because of you crazy people I have the fold 4 coming on Wednesday... Lol. I'm kinda jacked to get it in my hands. A dude at my work had one and I was sold completely. That screen is silly and the multi-tasking... Thanks guys


----------



## erockg

Ceeluh7 said:


> Because of you crazy people I have the fold 4 coming on Wednesday... Lol. I'm kinda jacked to get it in my hands. A dude at my work had one and I was sold completely. That screen is silly and the multi-tasking... Thanks guys


Dude, nice!  Looking forward to your thoughts...


----------



## clerkpalmer

Ceeluh7 said:


> Because of you crazy people I have the fold 4 coming on Wednesday... Lol. I'm kinda jacked to get it in my hands. A dude at my work had one and I was sold completely. That screen is silly and the multi-tasking... Thanks guys


Just keep a charger close by because you’ll need it.


----------



## clerkpalmer

erockg said:


> I don't disagree with you.  And you're right, shorter, fatter would be a bit better.  Plus, swipe to type is awful on the Fold.  I'm trying, but maybe there's a better keyboard?  Google?  My Apple stuff just works seamlessly in comparison.  I dictate texts nonstop in the car.  Dangerous, I know, but with my iPhone, it was brilliant.  Android has me hitting a wall at times.  I did put magsafe on the Fold and that is working great!
> 
> I'd have to look up the cost for Colorware.  It's crazy though.  I'm just not a white earbud guy.  I'm insane and will pay the extra cost.   https://www.colorware.com/p-1345-ai...bjvm*k6z-9bkqo*k71-9bmpn&cartRecordId=0&year=


What’s $139 for .01 oz of paint? ….


----------



## clerkpalmer

erockg said:


> I don't disagree with you.  And you're right, shorter, fatter would be a bit better.  Plus, swipe to type is awful on the Fold.  I'm trying, but maybe there's a better keyboard?  Google?  My Apple stuff just works seamlessly in comparison.  I dictate texts nonstop in the car.  Dangerous, I know, but with my iPhone, it was brilliant.  Android has me hitting a wall at times.  I did put magsafe on the Fold and that is working great!
> 
> I'd have to look up the cost for Colorware.  It's crazy though.  I'm just not a white earbud guy.  I'm insane and will pay the extra cost.   https://www.colorware.com/p-1345-ai...bjvm*k6z-9bkqo*k71-9bmpn&cartRecordId=0&year=


That’s where the fold loses it’s utility for me. I need to respond to texts and emails quickly to keep things moving. And with the front cover it’s typo central. Opening it is better but that takes time too and can be awkward on the move. I struggle with my love of tech versus the outright utility of the iPhone. The Fold is superior in so many ways and Apple is stuck in the mud. I hate that I love the iPhone.


----------



## erockg

clerkpalmer said:


> What’s $139 for .01 oz of paint? ….


Yup.  That said, they are flawless.  I've bought from Colorware for years.  What they do can't be replicated by anyone... yet.  Apple needs AirPods in colors!


----------



## erockg

clerkpalmer said:


> That’s where the fold loses it’s utility for me. I need to respond to texts and emails quickly to keep things moving. And with the front cover it’s typo central. Opening it is better but that takes time too and can be awkward on the move. I struggle with my love of tech versus the outright utility of the iPhone. The Fold is superior in so many ways and Apple is stuck in the mud. I hate that I love the iPhone.


Agreed.  Sounds like we're both experiencing the same things.  Love/Hate relationship at this moment.  

My iPad Mini is collecting dust because of the Fold 4.


----------



## clerkpalmer

erockg said:


> Yup.  That said, they are flawless.  I've bought from Colorware for years.  What they do can't be replicated by anyone... yet.  Apple needs AirPods in colors!


It's hard to believe Apple is leaving money on the table not doing this.


----------



## erockg

clerkpalmer said:


> It's hard to believe Apple is leaving money on the table not doing this.


They are not.  But if they DID offer black APP's they'd sell like hotcakes.  Can't get any pro phones here in LA.  Sold out.  I need my stock to go up.


----------



## clerkpalmer (Sep 19, 2022)

erockg said:


> They are not.  But if they DID offer black APP's they'd sell like hotcakes.  Can't get any pro phones here in LA.  Sold out.  I need my stock to go up.


I bought my Pro Max from a guy with a backpack full of them in a grocery store parking lot.  What could go wrong?

Edit - I swore to myself I was not going to buy an iphone this time and was going to give the Fold a full run.  I made it exactly 2 days after release date.  The parking lot purchase is true btw.


----------



## erockg

clerkpalmer said:


> I bought my Pro Max from a guy with a backpack full of them in a grocery store parking lot.  What could go wrong?
> 
> Edit - I swore to myself I was not going to buy an iphone this time and was going to give the Fold a full run.  I made it exactly 2 days after release date.  The parking lot purchase is true btw.


Dude, that is hysterical.


----------



## Ceeluh7

clerkpalmer said:


> Just keep a charger close by because you’ll need it.


LOL... Thanks man, I'm never too far from a charger


----------



## clerkpalmer

erockg said:


> Dude, that is hysterical.


I needed some purple in my life to match my Fokus.


----------



## clerkpalmer

Ceeluh7 said:


> LOL... Thanks man, I'm never too far from a charger


It's actually not too bad.  But coming from an iphone, we are spoiled with killer battery life.  I personally think the Fold needs a bigger battery to be a real productivity device but many think it's good enough.


----------



## erockg

clerkpalmer said:


> I needed some purple in my life to match my Fokus.


I'm a sad human:  https://iphonechecker.herokuapp.com/q/90094/i14ProMax/unlocked

Not saying I'm pulling a trigger, but ya know.


----------



## clerkpalmer

erockg said:


> I'm a sad human:  https://iphonechecker.herokuapp.com/q/90094/i14ProMax/unlocked
> 
> Not saying I'm pulling a trigger, but ya know.


Not trying to enable you, but my parking lot guy had a few more if you are interested ... I can be your dealer err mule?


----------



## erockg

clerkpalmer said:


> Not trying to enable you, but my parking lot guy had a few more if you are interested ... I can be your dealer err mule?


----------



## clerkpalmer

erockg said:


>


I'll take the Rolex.


----------



## assassin10000

clerkpalmer said:


> I'll take the Folex.



Fixed that for you.


----------



## ElKabong

Juturna said:


> Hmm, you've given me something to think about at least!
> It's a bummer if the Bose QC II sounds bad for calls, that seems surprising with their design, and I recall Bose QC Buds (1st Gen) being known for having very respectable call quality when it came out? Sure, call quality isn't highest at my list of priorities within a TWS earbud, but I've also had some very nightmarish experiences with my older TWS earbuds where I got so damn mad as soon as I took a call that was somewhere where it wasn't completely quiet and people were always like "I CAN'T HEAR YOU, I JUST HEAR EVERYBODY ELSE AROUND YOU" *cough, WF-1000XM3, cough* and I'm not exactly looking to get back to that.
> 
> I really don't like the look of the Oppo Enco X2 unfortunately, I find the Freebuds 2 Pro to look MUCH better, both the silver and the blue are gorgeous. I do like white earbuds though, but I'm not mad about the super plastic-y looking Airpods-like finish on the X2s. But I also don't trust Freebuds Pro 2 because they're tuned by Devialet, and I just find the Devialet Gemini to be one of the worst tuned buds in my collection of all time.
> ...


Picked up a pair for $129, 40 off retail, i can see why you'd be wary, this my first shot at the L3P's.


----------



## regancipher

Finally got round to finishing my review on the FreeBuds Pro 2. Realised I cut about a minute on the ANC including transparency mode, one of the best features. ***.

Here it is anyway, really impressed with the sound even if the design means I'm gonna be tip rolling them until I get bored


----------



## Tommy C

gabriely said:


> Bang & Olufsen EX users - you may wanna check the B&O app - they've pushed firmware v5.4.9 to some more users. Seems like this update will help reflect battery %s more accurately in the app



Has the ANC been approved by any chance with the new FW update?


----------



## gabriely

Tommy C said:


> Has the ANC been approved by any chance with the new FW update?


Unfortunately I don't think so. I don't think the EXs have a lot more further potential for noise cancelling/isolation anyway because the fit is so incredibly shallow in the ear. Makes them super comfy but I'm not optimistic for much further improvements on the ANC front


----------



## Caipirina

clerkpalmer said:


> I bought my Pro Max from a guy with a backpack full of them in a grocery store parking lot.  What could go wrong?
> 
> Edit - I swore to myself I was not going to buy an iphone this time and was going to give the Fold a full run.  I made it exactly 2 days after release date.  The parking lot purchase is true btw.


I am still on my basic iPhone 11 from 2019 .. the ‘before’ time  usually I buy new every 3 years, but I just could not get myself to buy a 14 … maybe because the 11 still does everything I want in a solid fashion (first time ever I sprang for a battery replacement) plus I can’t get an iPhone without that ridiculous force shutter sound here in Japan … I think once there comes some apple only lossless Bluetooth thingamabob standard only to new iPhones, I will give it a closer look. Otherwise I am trying to hang on for 2 more years …maybe the iPhone 16 is the first going back to rounded edges


----------



## Aevum

I am curious about the freebuds Pro 2, the LDAC support and the micro planar driver raised my interest.


----------



## erockg

clerkpalmer said:


> I'll take the Rolex.


FYI, although you've probably already tried it, I switched to GBoard and my typing & swipes are 98% better.  Guess that was the issue for me.  Samsung's keyboard swipe and dictation is meh.  GBoard and Swiftkey evidently are the way to go.


----------



## clerkpalmer (Sep 20, 2022)

erockg said:


> FYI, although you've probably already tried it, I switched to GBoard and my typing & swipes are 98% better.  Guess that was the issue for me.  Samsung's keyboard swipe and dictation is meh.  GBoard and Swiftkey evidently are the way to go.


Hadn’t. Enjoying my iPhone 14 pro max. Wifey is happy to have me back on iOS. Maybe hard to undo this deed.  I do fine basic tasks simpler and faster on the iPhone which seems to be swaying me.


----------



## erockg

clerkpalmer said:


> Hadn’t. Enjoying my iPhone 14 pro max. Wifey is happy to have me back on iOS. Maybe hard to undo this deed.  I do fine basic tasks simpler and faster on the iPhone which seems to be swaying me.


I should stop talking about it.  As I hit refresh waiting for a Max to come back in stock.


----------



## jasonb

clerkpalmer said:


> Hadn’t. Enjoying my iPhone 14 pro max. Wifey is happy to have me back on iOS. Maybe hard to undo this deed.  I do fine basic tasks simpler and faster on the iPhone which seems to be swaying me.


Not to keep this detailed from TWS buds, but I had always been an android guy. The last Android phone I had bought though made me decide to try an iPhone 13Pro and I’ve been enjoying it. I ended up soon after getting AirPods Pro, a series 7 Apple Watch, a HomePod mini, a base model M1 MacBook Air, and an AirPods Max. So now I’ll be stuck and I think that’s fine. Apple does some things better and so does android, but I’ll be sticking with this 13Pro. 

One of the main reasons I had stuck to android was because of LDAC, but switching to iPhone and AAC sounded just fine.


----------



## BooleanBones

gabriely said:


> Unfortunately I don't think so. I don't think the EXs have a lot more further potential for noise cancelling/isolation anyway because the fit is so incredibly shallow in the ear. Makes them super comfy but I'm not optimistic for much further improvements on the ANC front


I don't notice anything significant either on this front. Better ambient on them would be killer for me as I still fall back to my APPs for any calls due to the occlusion effect.


----------



## Tommy C

BooleanBones said:


> I don't notice anything significant either on this front. Better ambient on them would be killer for me as I still fall back to my APPs for any calls due to the occlusion effect.


I’m toying with the idea getting the EQ since the EX fall short in some areas. 
As a main pair I need something with good ambient mode, call quality and respectable ANC. Oh well 😝


----------



## BooleanBones

Tommy C said:


> I’m toying with the idea getting the EQ since the EX fall short in some areas.
> As a main pair I need something with good ambient mode, call quality and respectable ANC. Oh well 😝


Unfortunately the only way I can really test the ANC nowadays is with my lawn equipment ever since the stupid virus put me in house arrest  For calls, I think the EXs might be better on the receiving end based on feedback I have gotten, but not sure by how much. Can probably get a great deal on the EQs nowadays though


----------



## Bhelpoori

As a Zoom/Teams/WebEx addict and a Bose QC original owner, I’ve been concerned about buying the QC2 because of several reports of bad voice quality though everything else seems improved. I found this test on YouTube 

Which seems pretty good to me… oh and he has a unique test at 5m45s in that I’ve not seen anyone else try…


----------



## aweBit

erockg said:


> FYI, although you've probably already tried it, I switched to GBoard and my typing & swipes are 98% better.  Guess that was the issue for me.  Samsung's keyboard swipe and dictation is meh.  GBoard and Swiftkey evidently are the way to go.


I peered over this conversation about swipe typing and was on the cusp of suggesting Gboard if it weren’t to be mentioned, but you ended up doing so!

Been using Gboard intermittently for a long time now and nothing else. Swipe typing has become the default for me now!

Also love backing up my personal dictionary from previous devices to be used on my current device! I have a niggle for curly quotes, and being able to move my corrections from one device is relieving. 😜


----------



## FYLegend

Jhericurls said:


> Recently received the Buds2 Pro and wanted to share some quick thoughts compared to my other buds (B&O EQ and WF-1000MX4).
> 
> My ratings:
> 1. Sony WF-1000MX4 (9/10)
> ...


Which Samsung phone you are using? Have you noticed a drastic difference when using LDAC vs AAC for the XM4? Some users here and elsewhere have reported the XM4 sounds warmer with LDAC turned on, while I have noticed the Liberty 3 Pro has the opposite effect where it sounds brighter and borderline sibilant with LDAC.

I have the Note 9 and the Buds2 and Buds+ struggle to maintain a high bitrate when WiFi is connected, leading to treble distortion. It's not as noticeable on the Buds+ as the treble is quite forward and thick to begin with, but on certain tracks I notice the treble double up and become more splashy. Changing to AAC eliminates the issue, but is very tedious because they ALWAYS default to Scalable the next time I power on the earbuds. I'm not sure when I will be replacing my phone (but with all these issues, in due time), but this makes me reluctant to try another Samsung Scalable device.

It seems to me like Samsung Scalable is only optimized for the latest devices. I suspect the reason Samsung is not supporting AptX HD/LL/Adaptive is that they do not use Qualcomm parts for Bluetooth/WiFi (only for the processor) - the S21 and previous phones used a Murata BT5.0 chip while S21 Ultra and S22 Ultra use a Broadcom chip which appears to go hand-in-hand with the Broadcom chip of the Galaxy Buds series. They could theoretically load those AptX drivers but don't seem to be bothered with it.


----------



## newworld666 (Sep 21, 2022)

For lucky people people using a samsung ZFold4 smartphone .. clearly after one month of using the Samsung Buds2 pro, with the dedicated lossless 24-48 codec, we have a nice wireless IEM with Neutron Player ..More over it seems there are no impacts of the ANC (when needed) on the frequency response ..
With such combo (ZFold4 + Buds2 pro) it's difficult not to find the very small and comfortable Buds2 pro nearly, if not, as good as my Sennheiser IE600 + FIIO BTR7 for a fraction of the price...


----------



## webvan

QCII just came in and the ANC sounds like it could be the best I've ever "heard" ! It does even better than my current goto ANC earbuds, the EarFun Free Pro 2. QC15 are left behind too, impressive !
Will try running with them tomorrow.


----------



## Pansbjorne

Any ear tips you guys like in particular for tws?


----------



## newworld666 (Sep 21, 2022)

Pansbjorne said:


> Any ear tips you guys like in particular for tws?


With the Samsung Buds2 Pro .. I prefer the Spinfit CP 100-L, though SednaEarfit Crystal for buds pro are not bad at all (far better than samsung stock tips), but Spinfit are maybe bringing some more ultra low frequencies and are the most comfortable for my ears for 10 hours or more per day.
​


----------



## Pansbjorne

newworld666 said:


> With the Samsung Buds2 Pro .. I prefer the Spinfit CP 100-L, though SednaEarfit Crystal for buds pro are not bad at all (far better than samsung stock tips), but Spinfit are maybe bringing some more ultra low frequencies and are the most comfortable for my ears for 10 hours or more per day.
> ​



Would you say either of these pick up a lot of dust?


----------



## Jhericurls

FYLegend said:


> Which Samsung phone you are using? Have you noticed a drastic difference when using LDAC vs AAC for the XM4? Some users here and elsewhere have reported the XM4 sounds warmer with LDAC turned on, while I have noticed the Liberty 3 Pro has the opposite effect where it sounds brighter and borderline sibilant with LDAC.



I'm using a Fold 4.  My XM4 is set to LDAC, haven't done any comparisons with AAC.


----------



## newworld666

Pansbjorne said:


> Would you say either of these pick up a lot of dust?


No not the CP 100 ... those are really the easiest to use.. not sticky, they don't keep any dust, they don't need to be wet to fit quickly in the ears.. they look always very clean. 
SednaEarfit Crystal are another story..
​


----------



## Jhericurls

erockg said:


> Thanks.  I was considering some Comply tips.  Maybe better for ventilation.  Great buds, but that on issue is annoying for me.


After testing with some Spinfits, not sure I can recommend Comply tip.  They fit great and block passive noise but it makes the sound very muffled.


----------



## clerkpalmer

Bose owners, do phone calls only play out of the right ear?


----------



## erockg

clerkpalmer said:


> Bose owners, do phone calls only play out of the right ear?


Nope.  Stereo for me.  Been using them all week, no issues.


----------



## clerkpalmer

erockg said:


> Nope.  Stereo for me.  Been using them all week, no issues.


Fuuuuuuuuudddddddgggggggeeeeeee.


----------



## Synthy

i think i'm back on the lookout for a new pair (my tevis are breaking and i kinda want better ergonomics).

that said, what (besides for the obvious Sony stuff) has LDAC?


----------



## erockg

clerkpalmer said:


> Fuuuuuuuuudddddddgggggggeeeeeee.


Reset, repair, yada yada?


----------



## mainguy

So I've been listening to the MW08 extensively for a month, and travelling with them. I love the controls, sound is great.

But going back to Airpods Pro I can't help but think...The sound is just as good. It was the same with PI7. I feel like the tws ive tried just don't widen the gap enough technically, and the APP is so much better optimised elsewhere I'm having a hard time seeing why anyone would choose anything else on iOS. In some ways I think APP even sounds better than the MW08, while costing less. It has more energy in the mid range and a better tonal balance, treble is more resolved, but bass is weaker and imaging is weaker.

Still they shouldn't trade blows if Master & Dynamic want to sell their buds. Same goes for Bowers & Wilkins.


----------



## natalieann

When is Sony releasing their new 1000 in ear model! I can’t wait to see what they come up with


----------



## Bhelpoori

clerkpalmer said:


> Bose owners, do phone calls only play out of the right ear?


DHRME had quite a lot of issues too:

Annoying sound when using touch control
Connectivity issues like Bluetooth drops
Times when only 1 bud would turn on
Connectivity to the app


Chapter: Experiences and Quirks


----------



## Sam L

jasonb said:


> Not to keep this detailed from TWS buds, but I had always been an android guy. The last Android phone I had bought though made me decide to try an iPhone 13Pro and I’ve been enjoying it. I ended up soon after getting AirPods Pro, a series 7 Apple Watch, a HomePod mini, a base model M1 MacBook Air, and an AirPods Max. So now I’ll be stuck and I think that’s fine. Apple does some things better and so does android, but I’ll be sticking with this 13Pro.
> 
> One of the main reasons I had stuck to android was because of LDAC, but switching to iPhone and AAC sounded just fine.


Same experience moving from Android to apple ecosystem, though the initial steps were forced due to work.

I still swap back to android from time to time but it lasts for a day or two. Running an airmessage server on a Mac mini makes switching easy.


----------



## Caipirina

Bhelpoori said:


> As a Zoom/Teams/WebEx addict and a Bose QC original owner, I’ve been concerned about buying the QC2 because of several reports of bad voice quality though everything else seems improved. I found this test on YouTube
> 
> Which seems pretty good to me… oh and he has a unique test at 5m45s in that I’ve not seen anyone else try…



suuuuure, when someone ELSE is flushing the toilet


----------



## Caipirina

erockg said:


> Reset, repair, yada yada?


I recall that I had a really weird issue with my first QC buds, in which the volume change became more like a balance regulator ... I could not really explain it until I found it also documented on reddit .. basically one side was stuck at 50% while the other would change from 0 - 100 ... so, with fiddling one could get balanced sound .. the response back then was also 'reset, yada yada' .. and that actually worked .. I had to play the reset game a few times, but I guess eventually some FW update took care of it ... haven't had that issue since ... 
Overall my QC1 have been behaving quite well .. only today though, they kidnapped the BT connection while firmly tucked away in their massive case .. I hate when buds to do that ... the APP do that as well quite often ... 

Can't wait for my Bose 2 to arrive, one more week ...   and I am very curious to hear / see the ANC battle reviews, which one will be king. 

As outlined earlier, the APP2 will sell here for quite some more money than the Bose2 .. so, I am not really in a hurry to get them ...


----------



## clerkpalmer

Bhelpoori said:


> DHRME had quite a lot of issues too:
> 
> Annoying sound when using touch control
> Connectivity issues like Bluetooth drops
> ...



Yeah, this is my experience.  I'll call them annoying but if they are not fixed soon, it will warrant a return.


----------



## clerkpalmer

Caipirina said:


> I recall that I had a really weird issue with my first QC buds, in which the volume change became more like a balance regulator ... I could not really explain it until I found it also documented on reddit .. basically one side was stuck at 50% while the other would change from 0 - 100 ... so, with fiddling one could get balanced sound .. the response back then was also 'reset, yada yada' .. and that actually worked .. I had to play the reset game a few times, but I guess eventually some FW update took care of it ... haven't had that issue since ...
> Overall my QC1 have been behaving quite well .. only today though, they kidnapped the BT connection while firmly tucked away in their massive case .. I hate when buds to do that ... the APP do that as well quite often ...
> 
> Can't wait for my Bose 2 to arrive, one more week ...   and I am very curious to hear / see the ANC battle reviews, which one will be king.
> ...


Reviews on the APP2 are rolling in.  As expected and in a very apple like way, an incremental improvement.  Would it ever kill Apple to just knock it out of the park someday?  Everything is a refinement and never an innovation.  3 years later, we get a slightly improved APP.  Sigh.

Based on the reviews, it appears the Bose will sound better and have better ANC.  APP will have better call quality.  The APP will of course have the fun apple tricks.  I guess we will see how it goes.  My original APP had all sorts of issues and Apple denied me a replacement out of warranty.  Still, I'm dumb enough to buy them and see.


----------



## webvan (Sep 22, 2022)

So I spent a bit more time with the QCII and the *ANC is really, really impressive*. I never tried the XM4s so can't compare but this is really the best I've ever experienced.
Having said that there are a few problems that I haven't seen mentioned so far :
- ANC mode picks up a lot of wind, as heard during a quick test on a bike
- Aware seems to come hand in hand with "ActiveSense" and it varies the level of "Awareness" automatically. So in case of a sudden noise it turns on ANC.
- There is no real "passive" mode, that could be used while riding a bike (in the woods, not in town !). Even if you create a mode, say "run" and set ANC to "zero" the mics stay on and pick up wind noise.

I've read here that the XM4s can actually have ANC on and not pick up much/any wind noise, does it really work ? There was a setting like that on the XM3s (you had to lower ANC I think) but it wasn't very convincing.

Will go for a run shortly to see how they handly the "runner's thud' but it seems wind noise is going to be a problem anyway.


----------



## clerkpalmer

webvan said:


> So I spent a bit more time with the QCII and the ANC is really, really impressive. I never tried the XM4s so can't compare but this is really the best I've ever experienced.
> Having said that there are a few problems that I haven't seen mentioned so far :
> - ANC mode picks up a lot of wind, as heard during a quick test on a bike
> - Aware seems to come hand in hand with "ActiveSense" and it varies the level of "Awareness" automatically. So in case of a sudden noise it turns on ANC.
> ...


Thanks for the feedback.  I cycle a lot and that is a bummer.  The inability to completely turn off anc seems like a huge misstep by Bose.  I won't use them on the bike anyway because the design will pick up a lot of wind noise to begin with.  How hard would it be to just have a disable option.


----------



## Sam L

As a still-reluctant-but-thoroughly-brainwashed-apple-ecosystem-user, can't wait to get the APP 2's in!


----------



## bladefd

I wish there was a TWS with both great sound quality AND good call quality. I have not tried many tws, but it seems to me from reading reviews that you can't get both worlds. Ex is way too expensive for my wallet, but that seems to be the only option if you want close to both worlds? Nothing cheaper than $400?

I am still switching between my cambridge audio melomania touch for music and wired IEMs for phone calls. Not very convenient, but it works for now. I'm still in search of tws that does both very well without spending insane money.


----------



## webvan

So I tried running with the QCII and it was a complete disaster, same wind problems as described above and a horrible "runner's thud", one of the worst ever !


----------



## clerkpalmer

webvan said:


> So I tried running with the QCII and it was a complete disaster, same wind problems as described above and a horrible "runner's thud", one of the worst ever !


Yeah, the thud is expected but inability to turn off the ANC mics is unforgiveable.


----------



## clerkpalmer

bladefd said:


> I wish there was a TWS with both great sound quality AND good call quality. I have not tried many tws, but it seems to me from reading reviews that you can't get both worlds. Ex is way too expensive for my wallet, but that seems to be the only option if you want close to both worlds? Nothing cheaper than $400?
> 
> I am still switching between my cambridge audio melomania touch for music and wired IEMs for phone calls. Not very convenient, but it works for now. I'm still in search of tws that does both very well without spending insane money.


Have you considered full size wireless cans?  They tend to perform better for phone calls.  Surprised a wired IEM is giving you good call quality but maybe the microphone is good.


----------



## bladefd

clerkpalmer said:


> Have you considered full size wireless cans?  They tend to perform better for phone calls.  Surprised a wired IEM is giving you good call quality but maybe the microphone is good.


Wireless cans are too bulky imo and doesn't have the convenience of tws. I also use tws a lot in bed, which wireless cans probably not work well for. I just don't like the idea of switching back and forth depending on the day and what I need that hour.

Convenience is pretty much the reason why I entered the tws game last year. I would hate to give it up now!


----------



## cresny

bladefd said:


> I wish there was a TWS with both great sound quality AND good call quality. I have not tried many tws, but it seems to me from reading reviews that you can't get both worlds. Ex is way too expensive for my wallet, but that seems to be the only option if you want close to both worlds? Nothing cheaper than $400?
> 
> I am still switching between my cambridge audio melomania touch for music and wired IEMs for phone calls. Not very convenient, but it works for now. I'm still in search of tws that does both very well without spending insane money.


There are a number of TWS sets with good to excellent call quality, and most if not all of them have stems. If that's OK with you, for the best sound quality in the < $200 range, try the Huawei FreeBuds Pro 2 or Oppo Enco X2. I can only speak for the former, but it has excellent call quality and sound quality.


----------



## WesennTony

Got the QCII. Anybody notices a hiss when not playing music? Also tried to connect to Bose Music app multiple times (un-install, re-install, unpair, repair, ....) on my LG V50, but still not succeed yet. Any special tricks or just pure luck?
All that said, ANC is unbelievable!


----------



## Jhericurls

webvan said:


> I've read here that the XM4s can actually have ANC on and not pick up much/any wind noise, does it really work ? There was a setting like that on the XM3s (you had to lower ANC I think) but it wasn't very convincing.



Yeah, it has an anti-wind feature and works really well in most conditions. The XM3 are awful for wind noise.


----------



## clerkpalmer

WesennTony said:


> Got the QCII. Anybody notices a hiss when not playing music? Also tried to connect to Bose Music app multiple times (un-install, re-install, unpair, repair, ....) on my LG V50, but still not succeed yet. Any special tricks or just pure luck?
> All that said, ANC is unbelievable!


A slight hiss is pretty normal for that level of ANC.  Mine is more of a noise floor.


----------



## March78

WesennTony said:


> Got the QCII. Anybody notices a hiss when not playing music? Also tried to connect to Bose Music app multiple times (un-install, re-install, unpair, repair, ....) on my LG V50, but still not succeed yet. Any special tricks or just pure luck?
> All that said, ANC is unbelievable!


Yes there is too much white noise, disappointing. Sending them back because of this.


----------



## Caipirina

clerkpalmer said:


> Reviews on the APP2 are rolling in.  As expected and in a very apple like way, an incremental improvement.  Would it ever kill Apple to just knock it out of the park someday?  Everything is a refinement and never an innovation.  3 years later, we get a slightly improved APP.  Sigh.
> 
> Based on the reviews, it appears the Bose will sound better and have better ANC.  APP will have better call quality.  The APP will of course have the fun apple tricks.  I guess we will see how it goes.  My original APP had all sorts of issues and Apple denied me a replacement out of warranty.  Still, I'm dumb enough to buy them and see.


I felt pretty knocked out of the park when the first APP came out. While the sound was safe, down the middle, mainstream, the ANC from this kind of ‘weird’ fit was killer. 

That being said, with the APP2 apple had made the decision for me

Bose2 official price 299$ - here 32700¥ (229$)
APP2 official price 249$ - here 39800¥ (280$)


----------



## clerkpalmer

Caipirina said:


> I felt pretty knocked out of the park when the first APP came out. While the sound was safe, down the middle, mainstream, the ANC from this kind of ‘weird’ fit was killer.
> 
> That being said, with the APP2 apple had made the decision for me
> 
> ...


Yeah at those prices no brainer.


----------



## webvan

Jhericurls said:


> Yeah, it has an anti-wind feature and works really well in most conditions. The XM3 are awful for wind noise.


Thanks, sounds like I need to give them a try then. Hopefully someone can comment on ANC on the QCII (best ever to my ears) vs the XM4.


----------



## Caipirina

webvan said:


> So I tried running with the QCII and it was a complete disaster, same wind problems as described above and a horrible "runner's thud", one of the worst ever !


That's quite a bummer. But somehow to be expected with the change from a more semi in ear fit of the QC1 to now crazy good seal ...


----------



## webvan

clerkpalmer said:


> A slight hiss is pretty normal for that level of ANC.  Mine is more of a noise floor.


Yeah it's there but acceptable to my ears too, comes with ANC.


----------



## Caipirina

Anyone here still has / uses the (back then) much hyped Tronsmart Spunky Beat? Was trying my pair and it appears they are totally battery dead, buds & case ... no LEDs coming on at all when I try charging ...  similar with the Onyx Neo ... 

Surprisingly also my Sony SP700N, they flash red LEDs when charging instead of steady red, which appears to be an indicator that they are also battery dead (while on the other hand, the WF-1000x are still ok)


----------



## March78

webvan said:


> Thanks, sounds like I need to give them a try then. Hopefully someone can comment on ANC on the QCII (best ever to my ears) vs the XM4.


QCII definitely have better ANC than XM4, but also more white noise. As good as the ANC may be, when it causes this much white noise it's no good for me and I prefer XM4 because of this.


----------



## March78

webvan said:


> Yeah it's there but acceptable to my ears too, comes with ANC.


APP and XM4 have very good ANC but much lower noise floor/hiss than QCII.


----------



## webvan (Sep 22, 2022)

Interesting, thanks. The white noise is there but acceptable to my ears and I can't hear it when listening to music. Certainly not as bad as the hiss we had on the L2Ps that was really distracting.

The lack of a true passive mode AFAICT and the wind noise are more problematic IMHO.


----------



## PixelSquish

clerkpalmer said:


> Reviews on the APP2 are rolling in.  As expected and in a very apple like way, an incremental improvement.  Would it ever kill Apple to just knock it out of the park someday?  Everything is a refinement and never an innovation.  3 years later, we get a slightly improved APP.  Sigh.
> 
> Based on the reviews, it appears the Bose will sound better and have better ANC.  APP will have better call quality.  The APP will of course have the fun apple tricks.  I guess we will see how it goes.  My original APP had all sorts of issues and Apple denied me a replacement out of warranty.  Still, I'm dumb enough to buy them and see.


you mean knocking it out of the park by having an even bigger and using up more of the screen permanent cutout that either is permanently in the way of content or will always be trying to get your attention somehow?


----------



## PixelSquish

bladefd said:


> I wish there was a TWS with both great sound quality AND good call quality. I have not tried many tws, but it seems to me from reading reviews that you can't get both worlds. Ex is way too expensive for my wallet, but that seems to be the only option if you want close to both worlds? Nothing cheaper than $400?
> 
> I am still switching between my cambridge audio melomania touch for music and wired IEMs for phone calls. Not very convenient, but it works for now. I'm still in search of tws that does both very well without spending insane money.


I'm in the same boat. And not full sized cans. I want the sound of the MTW3 or even AZ60 but with good phone calls. The MTW3 are better than the AZ60 but they both fail when it gets even a little noisy or windy outdoors. Perfectly fine indoors, but I need them to take good calls when I'm walking the dog.

I'm guessing my best bet is Jabra?


----------



## bladefd

PixelSquish said:


> I'm in the same boat. And not full sized cans. I want the sound of the MTW3 or even AZ60 but with good phone calls. The MTW3 are better than the AZ60 but they both fail when it gets even a little noisy or windy outdoors. Perfectly fine indoors, but I need them to take good calls when I'm walking the dog.
> 
> I'm guessing my best bet is Jabra?


Yeah, I thought of Jabra. I don't know which Jabra TWS is the best with both solid sound quality and call quality. I guess I can test some Jabra tws and always return.

Does the MTW3 have good call quality when you are indoors?


----------



## erockg

Caipirina said:


> I recall that I had a really weird issue with my first QC buds, in which the volume change became more like a balance regulator ... I could not really explain it until I found it also documented on reddit .. basically one side was stuck at 50% while the other would change from 0 - 100 ... so, with fiddling one could get balanced sound .. the response back then was also 'reset, yada yada' .. and that actually worked .. I had to play the reset game a few times, but I guess eventually some FW update took care of it ... haven't had that issue since ...
> Overall my QC1 have been behaving quite well .. only today though, they kidnapped the BT connection while firmly tucked away in their massive case .. I hate when buds to do that ... the APP do that as well quite often ...
> 
> Can't wait for my Bose 2 to arrive, one more week ...   and I am very curious to hear / see the ANC battle reviews, which one will be king.
> ...


I've had my QCII in my ears since 930am and they finally just prompted me to recharge.  Took three zoom calls, a one hour conference call and hours of music.  Really happy with them.  Now, Galaxy Buds 2 Pro for the rest of the work day.  My Sennies and B&O buds are getting sad.  

I do want to try those APP2, but again, I'm allergic to the look of white buds.  No offense, Apple.


----------



## erockg

Sam L said:


> Same experience moving from Android to apple ecosystem, though the initial steps were forced due to work.
> 
> I still swap back to android from time to time but it lasts for a day or two. Running an airmessage server on a Mac mini makes switching easy.


AirMessage always crashes for me or sometimes it won't push the iMessages.  I wound up shutting it down and went all text.  Now everyone has been saying, "Dude, why are your texts all green?  You what?  _YOUUUUU_???  _You_ are on Android - ????  I'm like, okay just relax everyone.  Everything else is still Apple.  Whew!


----------



## erockg

bladefd said:


> I wish there was a TWS with both great sound quality AND good call quality. I have not tried many tws, but it seems to me from reading reviews that you can't get both worlds. Ex is way too expensive for my wallet, but that seems to be the only option if you want close to both worlds? Nothing cheaper than $400?
> 
> I am still switching between my cambridge audio melomania touch for music and wired IEMs for phone calls. Not very convenient, but it works for now. I'm still in search of tws that does both very well without spending insane money.


I hate to admit it (maybe not) but the Galaxy Buds 2 Pro are pretty damn good bang for buck if you can get a deal.  I'm pretty impressed with them and use them a LOT.  They're tiny, easy in the pockets.  Tons of great features.  Good sub bass, clarity, soundstage and the app is great on Android.  iOS out of luck, but if you can set the settings with a friends Android, they seem to carry over (at least in my tests).


----------



## erockg

WesennTony said:


> Got the QCII. Anybody notices a hiss when not playing music? Also tried to connect to Bose Music app multiple times (un-install, re-install, unpair, repair, ....) on my LG V50, but still not succeed yet. Any special tricks or just pure luck?
> All that said, ANC is unbelievable!





clerkpalmer said:


> A slight hiss is pretty normal for that level of ANC.  Mine is more of a noise floor.


Noise floor too, but nothing out of the ordinary.  Or it's that it's so silent I can hear my brain working.  Or not.


----------



## erockg

webvan said:


> So I tried running with the QCII and it was a complete disaster, same wind problems as described above and a horrible "runner's thud", one of the worst ever !


Not sure they're meant as sports buds.  Are they?  I could be wrong.  They'll probably release a new version of their sports buds soon.  Bose tips are never great for impact.


----------



## erockg

clerkpalmer said:


> Yeah, this is my experience.  I'll call them annoying but if they are not fixed soon, it will warrant a return.


I'm definitely one of the lucky ones.  So far, nada.  Prob just jinxed myself as always.


----------



## bladefd

erockg said:


> I hate to admit it (maybe not) but the Galaxy Buds 2 Pro are pretty damn good bang for buck if you can get a deal.  I'm pretty impressed with them and use them a LOT.  They're tiny, easy in the pockets.  Tons of great features.  Good sub bass, clarity, soundstage and the app is great on Android.  iOS out of luck, but if you can set the settings with a friends Android, they seem to carry over (at least in my tests).


What are your thoughts on the call quality on your Sennheiser and the Bose? Good quality? I don't mind spending around $250. Just not $400 lol


----------



## dweaver

bladefd said:


> I wish there was a TWS with both great sound quality AND good call quality. I have not tried many tws, but it seems to me from reading reviews that you can't get both worlds. Ex is way too expensive for my wallet, but that seems to be the only option if you want close to both worlds? Nothing cheaper than $400?
> 
> I am still switching between my cambridge audio melomania touch for music and wired IEMs for phone calls. Not very convenient, but it works for now. I'm still in search of tws that does both very well without spending insane money.


I have really good experience with my Sony Linkbuds S for sound and call quality. They sound much more balanced than my WF-1000XM3 and definitely have much better call quality. All reviews I listened to also showed they beat the XM4 for call quality as well.

They are still my most used TWS I own.

I am tempted to try the Galaxy Buds 2 Pro though. But waiting for the inevitable price drop before I give them a whirl. Being a Galaxy S 20 user I almost feel obligated to see how good the Samsung high bitrate codec is.


----------



## Luchyres

dweaver said:


> I have really good experience with my Sony Linkbuds S for sound and call quality. They sound much more balanced than my WF-1000XM3 and definitely have much better call quality. All reviews I listened to also showed they beat the XM4 for call quality as well.
> 
> They are still my most used TWS I own.


Ditto. Comfy, great performing for calls and audio. Curious about Audio Technica ATH-TWX9 but I love my Linkbuds S.


----------



## Caipirina

erockg said:


> Not sure they're meant as sports buds.  Are they?  I could be wrong.  They'll probably release a new version of their sports buds soon.  Bose tips are never great for impact.


I disagree, I love the Stay Hear tips, I just had a run with my old old Soundsport Free and because of that kind of semi in ear fit, there is hardly any thud .. same for the QC1 ... funny enough, I tried the sport buds a few months back and did not like their fit which I think was to be blamed on different weight distribution since they are smaller that the QC1 ...  ... now, the QC2 are a whole new animal ...


----------



## dj24 (Sep 23, 2022)

secondpity via eBay has *Sony WF-1000XM4 Noise Canceling Wireless Earbuds* (Refurbished) for *$101.15* after you apply promo code *SAVE15REFURB* at checkout. *Shipping is free*.

Legit seller.  I've bought tons of stuff from them in the past with no issues.   They also include a 2-year warranty serviced by Allstate for the extra peace of mind.  White/ Silver ones are the same price as well.


----------



## nekonhime

dj24 said:


> secondpity via eBay has *Sony WF-1000XM4 Noise Canceling Wireless Earbuds* (Refurbished) for *$101.15* after you apply promo code *SAVE15REFURB* at checkout. *Shipping is free*.
> 
> Legit seller.  I've bought tons of stuff from them in the past with no issues.   They also include a 2-year warranty serviced by Allstate for the extra peace of mind.  White/ Silver ones are the same price as well.


Can vote for this as I bought the xm5 from them


----------



## tombrisbane

Grabbed the APP2 this morning, so far they sound good and I'd say more than an incremental improvement over the APP.  The bass impact is much better than on the APP1 which really lifts them up quite a bit. ANC is better than 1, little worse than XM4 but perfectly fine for office use!


----------



## BigZ12

Picked up APP 2nd gen when the shop opened.
It's amazing, simple as that. 
The most complete TWS out there, by a mile (if you use an iPhone/Apple TV/Macbook Pro as I do).
Keywords:
Great ANC, better sound (especially bass compared to 1st gen), Mic/phone calls, comfort, no noise with chewing etc, better battery (on paper, haven't tested yet) and I love Spatial audio! And now with volume controls on the buds! 
9,5 out of 10. (not 10 because they still look stupid  )

I'm selling my 1st gen, and MTW3...


----------



## webvan

dj24 said:


> secondpity via eBay has *Sony WF-1000XM4 Noise Canceling Wireless Earbuds* (Refurbished) for *$101.15* after you apply promo code *SAVE15REFURB* at checkout. *Shipping is free*.
> 
> Legit seller.  I've bought tons of stuff from them in the past with no issues.   They also include a 2-year warranty serviced by Allstate for the extra peace of mind.  White/ Silver ones are the same price as well.


Thanks for the tip. Might be a good time to check them out at last !
Do they only come with "comply type" foams ? Are they more durable ? Must say I've never been a fan as they degrade quickly and don't enjoy having to "shape them" before using them.


----------



## subguy812 (Sep 23, 2022)

webvan said:


> Thanks for the tip. Might be a good time to check them out at last !
> Do they only come with "comply type" foams ? Are they more durable ? Must say I've never been a fan as they degrade quickly and don't enjoy having to "shape them" before using them.


I bought them from there, at this same price, about 6 weeks ago. They look totally new. My brother also bought some after I told him, he had the same experience. No box, everything comes in a zip lock, minus the box everything is included. The Sony tips are horrible. I would recommend the Final TWS or the Spinfit. The SQ will be greatly improved, IMO, once you ditch the Sony tips.

Honestly, I never use EQ except on this Sony along with the silicone final. That said, I experimented and found these settings check my box.



https://audio46.com/products/final-audio-true-wireless-silicon-type-e-eartips


----------



## all999

tombrisbane said:


> Grabbed the APP2 this morning, so far they sound good and I'd say more than an incremental improvement over the APP.  The bass impact is much better than on the APP1 which really lifts them up quite a bit. ANC is better than 1, little worse than XM4 but perfectly fine for office use!



Some initial sound comparison to XM4 would be more than welcome


----------



## Bhelpoori

BigZ12 said:


> Picked up APP 2nd gen when the shop opened.
> It's amazing, simple as that.
> The most complete TWS out there, by a mile (if you use an iPhone/Apple TV/Macbook Pro as I do).
> Keywords:
> ...


https://www.theverge.com/23365910/apple-airpods-pro-second-generation-review

They said “If you _do_ intend to use the AirPods Pro with Android, be aware there’s currently a significant bug where playback cuts out after 20 seconds or so.”

Anyone tried the APP2 on Android?

Also, if anyone has the QC2 and APP2 can they compare voice call quality, sound, fit and ANC please?


----------



## clerkpalmer (Sep 23, 2022)

BigZ12 said:


> Picked up APP 2nd gen when the shop opened.
> It's amazing, simple as that.
> The most complete TWS out there, by a mile (if you use an iPhone/Apple TV/Macbook Pro as I do).
> Keywords:
> ...


Gonna get mines today.  This is promising.  I still think it will be neck and neck with the Bose.  Fit may be the deciding factor for me.  I remember the APP being fussy particularly when sweat was introduced.


----------



## webvan

Caipirina said:


> I disagree, I love the Stay Hear tips, I just had a run with my old old Soundsport Free and because of that kind of semi in ear fit, there is hardly any thud .. same for the QC1 ... funny enough, I tried the sport buds a few months back and did not like their fit which I think was to be blamed on different weight distribution since they are smaller that the QC1 ...  ... now, the QC2 are a whole new animal ...



Might need to try the QC1 again then...it seems you don't use them for running anymore, did they come into harm's way ?


----------



## Sam L

bladefd said:


> I wish there was a TWS with both great sound quality AND good call quality. I have not tried many tws, but it seems to me from reading reviews that you can't get both worlds. Ex is way too expensive for my wallet, but that seems to be the only option if you want close to both worlds? Nothing cheaper than $400?
> 
> I am still switching between my cambridge audio melomania touch for music and wired IEMs for phone calls. Not very convenient, but it works for now. I'm still in search of tws that does both very well without spending insane money.


It's unbelievable that this goal is not commonly achieved. I bet many of us mentally organize our  tws' in two buckets -- the ones that make great ohone calls and the ones that sound great. 

Samsung and jabra, in general, pull off a good balance between sound quality and call quality


----------



## erockg

Caipirina said:


> I disagree, I love the Stay Hear tips, I just had a run with my old old Soundsport Free and because of that kind of semi in ear fit, there is hardly any thud .. same for the QC1 ... funny enough, I tried the sport buds a few months back and did not like their fit which I think was to be blamed on different weight distribution since they are smaller that the QC1 ...  ... now, the QC2 are a whole new animal ...


You're lucky.  Those stay hear tips killed my ears.  Never fit right.  The new ones with the QCII are just perfect for me.  Using them right now!

I did have a bug last night where they didn't sync properly after taking them out of the case.  Sound was awful and I suddenly had that ANC feedback when adjusting them in my ears folks mentioned.  Popped them on and out of the case and the problem resolved.  🤞


----------



## Caipirina

webvan said:


> Might need to try the QC1 again then...it seems you don't use them for running anymore, did they come into harm's way ?


Oh no, I still use them. I rotate buds depending on mood, color coordination, forgotten to charge …


----------



## erockg

If anyone gets this deal to work, great deal:

https://www.verizon.com/products/bo...98a46550INT&PUBID=1225267&cjdata=MXxOfDB8WXww


----------



## webvan

Caipirina said:


> Oh no, I still use them. I rotate buds depending on mood, color coordination, forgotten to charge …


oh ok and the fact that you can't turn off ANC/Aware doesn"t generate too much annoying wind noise when running ? On a bike they probably can't be used at all


----------



## erockg

bladefd said:


> What are your thoughts on the call quality on your Sennheiser and the Bose? Good quality? I don't mind spending around $250. Just not $400 lol


I'm not having any issues, mind you, I use them primarily wfh for calls.  They're good enough for me.  No one has complained.


----------



## BigZ12

clerkpalmer said:


> Gonna get mines today.  This is promising.  I still think it will be neck and neck with the Bose.  Fit may be the deciding factor for me.  I remember the APP being fussy particularly when sweat was introduced.


Looking forward to read your opinions.


----------



## jmwant

erockg said:


> If anyone gets this deal to work, great deal:
> 
> https://www.verizon.com/products/bo...98a46550INT&PUBID=1225267&cjdata=MXxOfDB8WXww


Isn't it the latest one? That's a great deal!


----------



## nekonhime

jmwant said:


> Isn't it the latest one? That's a great deal!


It already sold out I think


----------



## jant71

That is the rub. In store only so Verizon can get you in person and sell, sell, sell. Come in store to get your earphone and since you are here and have that new Verizon Visa you just opened....💸💸💸


----------



## erockg

jant71 said:


> That is the rub. In store only so Verizon can get you in person and sell, sell, sell. Come in store to get your earphone and since you are here and have that new Verizon Visa you just opened....💸💸💸


I can't even get any zip to show it in stock.  Def too good to be true.


----------



## clerkpalmer

First impressions of APP2 compared to the QCII.  Wow, these couldn't be tuned differently.  Been using the Bose for a week or so so my brain is tuned to them.  First impression was that the APP2 sounded thin with too much midrange compared to the Bose.  After a few minutes, my brain started to like it.  They are very balanced, midcentric with a bass shelf.  Not bad.  Then I switched over to the Bose and they felt too warm and boomy in comparison (even on the treble setting).  ANC goes to the Bose but the APP2 are not too far behind which is impressive given the open design.  I need to test further but this will be a decision that I think really rests on whether you like a clean balanced sound or the shaped Bose house sound.  I actually like them both quite a bit but the dichotomy is jarring.


----------



## Sam L

Caipirina said:


> Oh no, I still use them. I rotate buds depending on mood, color coordination, forgotten to charge …



whether you woke up tired or energized, depending on if you plan on getting starbucks or peets, different tws for coffee made at home, if it is raining or not, if you're going to be wearing sneakers or dress shoes, smartwatch or mechanical watch (diff tws for each), etc. 

without a huge diversity of reasons, there's no way to justify the sheer number of wireless earbuds you've been amassing.


----------



## Sam L

clerkpalmer said:


> First impressions of APP2 compared to the QCII.  Wow, these couldn't be tuned differently.  Been using the Bose for a week or so so my brain is tuned to them.  First impression was that the APP2 sounded thin with too much midrange compared to the Bose.  After a few minutes, my brain started to like it.  They are very balanced, midcentric with a bass shelf.  Not bad.  Then I switched over to the Bose and they felt too warm and boomy in comparison (even on the treble setting).  ANC goes to the Bose but the APP2 are not too far behind which is impressive given the open design.  I need to test further but this will be a decision that I think really rests on whether you like a clean balanced sound or the shaped Bose house sound.  I actually like them both quite a bit but the dichotomy is jarring.



interesting because the old school Bose house sound was not really warm and boomy. I'm starting to wonder if Bose has been shifting over the years. I have the qc35 qc45 and qc earphone 1. but I'm too lazy to compare.


----------



## Tommy C

Sam L said:


> interesting because the old school Bose house sound was not really warm and boomy. I'm starting to wonder if Bose has been shifting over the years. I have the qc35 qc45 and qc earphone 1. but I'm too lazy to compare.


I tend to agree with this.
Even the old SoundSport Free weren’t really warm and boomy. They were more of a U shape in terms of sound signature and pretty clear and spacious.


----------



## PixelSquish

bladefd said:


> Yeah, I thought of Jabra. I don't know which Jabra TWS is the best with both solid sound quality and call quality. I guess I can test some Jabra tws and always return.
> 
> Does the MTW3 have good call quality when you are indoors?


I haven't asked people but literally nobody has complained when I use them indoors or even on quiet streets. It's just when it gets even a little noisy outdoors that there's an issue. I don't use them in an office environment, I live alone and work at home.


----------



## PixelSquish

Bhelpoori said:


> https://www.theverge.com/23365910/apple-airpods-pro-second-generation-review
> 
> They said “If you _do_ intend to use the AirPods Pro with Android, be aware there’s currently a significant bug where playback cuts out after 20 seconds or so.”
> 
> ...


If you have an Android phone that's the last thing you should be looking at IMO. Apple makes things to work well in their walled garden, that's their goal to get you only on their products. And while many are fine and some are great, the integration is a huge part of it. There are far better options for Android


----------



## C_Lindbergh

Amazon finally reserved money for the ATH TWX9! Should get them soon then 
​


----------



## clerkpalmer

Tommy C said:


> I tend to agree with this.
> Even the old SoundSport Free weren’t really warm and boomy. They were more of a U shape in terms of sound signature and pretty clear and spacious.


I didn't mean to give the impression that the Bose are boomy - they aren't.  They are warm however.  It was more my reaction to the difference from the APP.  After a bit more time listening, the APP2 sound more open, big and spacious.  The Bose are fuller, more intimate and, yes, warm.  I prefer the Bose tbh for pure music.  And the fit is great.  There's probably a use case to keep both right @erockg?


----------



## erockg

clerkpalmer said:


> I didn't mean to give the impression that the Bose are boomy - they aren't.  They are warm however.  It was more my reaction to the difference from the APP.  After a bit more time listening, the APP2 sound more open, big and spacious.  The Bose are fuller, more intimate and, yes, warm.  I prefer the Bose tbh for pure music.  And the fit is great.  There's probably a use case to keep both right @erockg?


Don't drag me into this!  

Yep.  I definitely think the Bose QCII sound full, warm and intimate.  ANC is awesome here at the hacienda.  Honestly, I've never liked the sound of my APP first gen.  I'm cautiously optimistic about Gen 2.  I rarely use my APP, but for audio sharing, calls, and anything that you do in the Apple eco, the APP are great.  But I do prefer my QCII.  Now that Bose has slimmed them down, added EQ, they do beat the APP and probably the APP2 in many areas.  Why no wireless charging is beyond comprehension.  They have force pair, not multi-pair which is fine here.  I rarely use only one bud, but I know some folks want that option.  The Bose do not allow for that now, or yet.  Bose tends to push out updates that fix these things.  So, who knows.  Maybe some of these oversights are coming.


----------



## clerkpalmer

erockg said:


> Don't drag me into this!
> 
> Yep.  I definitely think the Bose QCII sound full, warm and intimate.  ANC is awesome here at the hacienda.  Honestly, I've never liked the sound of my APP first gen.  I'm cautiously optimistic about Gen 2.  I rarely use my APP, but for audio sharing, calls, and anything that you do in the Apple eco, the APP are great.  But I do prefer my QCII.  Now that Bose has slimmed them down, added EQ, they do beat the APP and probably the APP2 in many areas.  Why no wireless charging is beyond comprehension.  They have force pair, not multi-pair which is fine here.  I rarely use only one bud, but I know some folks want that option.  The Bose do not allow for that now, or yet.  Bose tends to push out updates that fix these things.  So, who knows.  Maybe some of these oversights are coming.


My crystal ball tells me the APP2 will probably be returned.  I do enjoy the Apple magic but your assessment is right and the Bose do beat the APP2 soundly in the music department.  I also did not love the APP1 and rarely used them for music.  They probably have a place for media on the ios ecosystem but $250 just for that? I don't know.  Did that shiny new iphone 14 pro max arrive yet?


----------



## erockg

clerkpalmer said:


> My crystal ball tells me the APP2 will probably be returned.  I do enjoy the Apple magic but your assessment is right and the Bose do beat the APP2 soundly in the music department.  I also did not love the APP1 and rarely used them for music.  They probably have a place for media on the ios ecosystem but $250 just for that? I don't know.  Did that shiny new iphone 14 pro max arrive yet?


Dear Devil,

Yes, 14 PM in hand, set up.  Bose QCII blaring the new Ozzy album.  Best one in years IMO.  I'm only keeping those APP because if my wife and I want to watch a show late at night on the ATV, we can connect together.  It's awesome.  I don't think you can do that with two different non-Apple earbuds/headphones.


----------



## subguy812

C_Lindbergh said:


> Amazon finally reserved money for the ATH TWX9! Should get them soon then
> ​


My credit card was hit as well, I do hope that is a good sign


----------



## Caipirina

Sam L said:


> whether you woke up tired or energized, depending on if you plan on getting starbucks or peets, different tws for coffee made at home, if it is raining or not, if you're going to be wearing sneakers or dress shoes, smartwatch or mechanical watch (diff tws for each), etc.
> 
> without a huge diversity of reasons, there's no way to justify the sheer number of wireless earbuds you've been amassing.


la la la ... i had hoped ppl had forgotten


----------



## mbk

APP2 first impressions here...

First, I'm one of the weird ones who doesn't care much about ANC or call quality. All my old wired IEMs, custom and non-custom, had good enough passive isolation that I never saw the need for ANC. My current favorite for the past year or two has been the Grado GT 220. The tips sit deep in your ear canal and passive isolation is excellent. And I just love the GT220 sound. 

My wife uses first gen APP and I feel that their sound quality is far below the GT220, especially on the low end. 

I listened to the APP2 for a few hours last night and then did A/B testing this morning with GT220 on 2 iPhones. I thought the Grado would continue to be far superior, but I ended up eating crow. They are *very* close in overall quality. The APP2 have significantly better low end response and tonality than the original APP. 

The Grado's bass is still more visceral, but I attribute that to the deeper seat in my ear canal and tighter seal. I wouldn't say it's stronger or better bass, but you do feel it more. An example would be on Solsbury Hill. There's a subtle bass drum kick that you hear and slightly feel on the APP2 but feel strongly on the Grado. The Grado low end is fuller and does color the sound profile more. (Interestingly, the GT220 is very different from the Grado house sound of their open-ear cans.) The APP2 are more neutral. Surprisingly, I'd give a slight nod in upper mid and highs to the APP2 as well. I never thought the Grados were sibilant, but I hear a touch when A/B'ing against the APP2. Overall, the APP2 is a much more audiophile-friendly sound while still being extremely fun and musical. I'm surprisingly impressed and a little sad for my poor beloved Grados. 

I ended up using old non-pro AirPods a lot for iPad and phone movies due to the ease of use within the Apple ecosystem. I'm really glad the sound quality is so good on these APP2s so I can get the best of both worlds.

A few random notes:
-I'm so used to IEMs that go down into the canal that it's hard for me to feel like these are sealed. They're performing like they are though.
-The Apple fit test for tip size is garbage. I pass the fit test with S, M, L tips. I didn't bother trying the XS but I'd probably pass with those too. Medium feel the most "right"
-They connected very easily with a non-Apple device (Peloton bike which runs Android) and then went right back to my iPhone when I picked it up. Very smooth.
-The speaker and "Find My" on the case are awesome. You'd really have to try to lose them.
-I ordered CharJenPro silicone covered foam tips to see if I can get a tighter-feeling seal


----------



## Bhelpoori

PixelSquish said:


> If you have an Android phone that's the last thing you should be looking at IMO. Apple makes things to work well in their walled garden, that's their goal to get you only on their products. And while many are fine and some are great, the integration is a huge part of it. There are far better options for Android


You are absolutely right… 

However as someone who works in a Windows, Android, iOS, iPadOS and MacOS world and occasionally crosses eco-systems… this was purely out of interest as sometimes one is forced to connect across e.g. I occasionally use my Airpod Max to Windows. Just thought with all the talk of both Fold and iPhone Max that someone had tried.


----------



## tiagopinto

erockg said:


> Adidas.com has a sale for anyone wanting to try out their TWS buds.  They're not half bad and even better at this price.



Which of the adidas you deem are best? The FWD-02 or other? Sound wise et all? Thx.


----------



## erockg

tiagopinto said:


> Which of the adidas you deem are best? The FWD-02 or other? Sound wise et all? Thx.


The FWD-02 IMO.  Missing some feature, but I found them to be better than the other offerings by Adidas.


----------



## Sam L

Bhelpoori said:


> https://www.theverge.com/23365910/apple-airpods-pro-second-generation-review
> 
> They said “If you _do_ intend to use the AirPods Pro with Android, be aware there’s currently a significant bug where playback cuts out after 20 seconds or so.”
> 
> ...



I'm using the APP 2's with several android devices. So far, no issues. Tested on fold 4 and s21. Eventually will have them paired on the pixel 6, s22 ultra, and dx170.


----------



## clerkpalmer

Sam L said:


> I'm using the APP 2's with several android devices. So far, no issues. Tested on fold 4 and s21. Eventually will have them paired on the pixel 6, s22 ultra, and dx170.


Solid phone collection.


----------



## DigDub

Samsung Galaxy buds2 pro. 24 bit sound.







Testing with Samsung flip 4 which supports the new seamless codec. Revealing mids, I can hear soft sounding mids which I didn't notice before. Listened to some 24 bit flac files, the sound was just amazing. The highs are not piercing and well controlled and the bass had good impact without being overbearing. Overall quite a balanced sound, the non emphasis on highs unlike the Harman curve might make it sound a tad bland to people who are used to "hotter" treble.

Very comfortable in the ears, no hot spots in the ear. As noted in a few reviews, the earwax guard in the ear tips are fragile, I've broken one side while changing ear tips. So I've removed the earwax guards as it doesn't seem to affect the sound.


----------



## Sam L

DigDub said:


> Samsung Galaxy buds2 pro. 24 bit sound.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Hmm.... This is not a post my wallet wanted to see. I was going to pass on the buds 2 pro. I thank you. My wallet despises you.


----------



## subguy812 (Sep 25, 2022)

I had a comical moment yesterday. I had my B&O EX at the pool and someone noticed them and inquired. I switched to an ultra hd track and said here you go. He put them in his ears and the gradual grin turned into an out and out toothy smile. He took them out and said WOW and I thought my AirPods were good. Then he raved about them looking so quality. He asked about the price, I told him, and he said "Wait, I see you in the pool with these and they are $400"?

Magical moment for this dude. LOL

Next up is the ATH-TWX9, hopefully I receive a shipping notice this week.


----------



## DigDub

Sam L said:


> Hmm.... This is not a post my wallet wanted to see. I was going to pass on the buds 2 pro. I thank you. My wallet despises you.


You're welcome. 

Just when I thought high quality audio is dead along with the wires, here comes the buds2 pro. My interest in FLAC files has been revived. Listening to both lossy and loselsss versions of a song, the difference is stark. The loseless version sounds more energetic and better defined all around, while the lossy version sounds more lifeless. I'm so glad I bought the 512gb version of the flip 4, the bigger storage will come in handy storing all those huge FLAC files.


----------



## subguy812

DigDub said:


> You're welcome.
> 
> Just when I thought high quality audio is dead along with the wires, here comes the buds2 pro. My interest in FLAC files has been revived. Listening to both lossy and loselsss versions of a song, the difference is stark. The loseless version sounds more energetic and better defined all around, while the lossy version sounds more lifeless. I'm so glad I bought the 512gb version of the flip 4, the bigger storage will come in handy storing all those huge FLAC files.


I would love to try them but I know that short nozzle will be an epic fail for me.


----------



## DigDub

subguy812 said:


> I would love to try them but I know that short nozzle will be an epic fail for me.


The tips are longer on the buds2 pro. I had issues with the buds pro nozzles not fitting snugly in my ears. With the longer tips and smaller size inner body of the buds2 pro, I'm able to fit them comfortably and securely in my ears. I guess the round shape of the nozzle is also better than the oval shaped tips of previous Samsung buds.


----------



## Sam L

DigDub said:


> You're welcome.
> 
> Just when I thought high quality audio is dead along with the wires, here comes the buds2 pro. My interest in FLAC files has been revived. Listening to both lossy and loselsss versions of a song, the difference is stark. The loseless version sounds more energetic and better defined all around, while the lossy version sounds more lifeless. I'm so glad I bought the 512gb version of the flip 4, the bigger storage will come in handy storing all those huge FLAC files.


I dropped a project to finish converting my cds to flac many years ago. I'm thinking I should pick that back up again. Hmmm. This is going to be time consuming...


----------



## dweaver

I have converted most of my CD's to FLAC and also have bought hires FLAC files. When converting CD's they will only sound as good as a CD so I made to sure not to rip them at a lot higher rate than they actually play. This saves space. Actual hires flacs sound better but only if I use a chain of gear that can actually let me hear it.

I found it interesting, I pulled an overhead BT headphone last night and when using LDAC I had to set it to much higher settings than any of the TWS I have tried LDAC on. So I think LDAC is not really a big benefit on TWS.

The one set of GBud 2 Pro impressions using Samsung codec has me interested in giving them a whirl. Might be the only codec I can use on my Samsung to get higher bit rates out of a TWS. I have started to default to AAC as it's way easier and at least consistent as compared to LDAC.

Wish Samsung Canada would allow me send in one of my old pairs of Samsung buds on trade like they do in the US. I would bought a pair already if they did that.


----------



## alsorkin

For those interested in discussion of AirPods Pro 2 I suggest looking at this Head-Fi thread: "Apple AirPods Pro And NEW AirPods Pro 2nd Gen (from 23 Sep 2022)  - Impressions"


----------



## FYLegend

dweaver said:


> I have converted most of my CD's to FLAC and also have bought hires FLAC files. When converting CD's they will only sound as good as a CD so I made to sure not to rip them at a lot higher rate than they actually play. This saves space. Actual hires flacs sound better but only if I use a chain of gear that can actually let me hear it.
> 
> I found it interesting, I pulled an overhead BT headphone last night and when using LDAC I had to set it to much higher settings than any of the TWS I have tried LDAC on. So I think LDAC is not really a big benefit on TWS.
> 
> ...


Were you able to get it to always default to AAC on your Samsung phone? I could not do this on my Buds2 or Buds+ which was very annoying, as the Note 9 performs Poorly with the Scalable Codec.


----------



## dweaver

Most of my BT stuff will default to AAC, the only ones that don't have APTx or LDAC.

I do own the GBuds Pro and those default to the scalable codec which fine on my S20. Not sure what other codecs they even use. So no I have done much with other codecs with that particular TWS.


----------



## Nostoi

My ATH-TWX9 finally shipped from Amazon Japan - should be here this week. Curious to see/hear if they live up the hype...!


----------



## C_Lindbergh

Nostoi said:


> My ATH-TWX9 finally shipped from Amazon Japan - should be here this week. Curious to see/hear if they live up the hype...!


Same here, it should arrive on Friday for me, cant wait!


----------



## Nostoi

C_Lindbergh said:


> Same here, it should arrive on Friday for me, cant wait!


Friday for me, too


----------



## Jayment

Hi. I'm planning to buy Sennheiser Momentum True Wireless 3 or   Sony WF-1000XM4. In terms of sound quality, what wired IEM are they comparable to?


----------



## tiagopinto

bladefd said:


> I wish there was a TWS with both great sound quality AND good call quality. I have not tried many tws, but it seems to me from reading reviews that you can't get both worlds. Ex is way too expensive for my wallet, but that seems to be the only option if you want close to both worlds? Nothing cheaper than $400?
> 
> I am still switching between my cambridge audio melomania touch for music and wired IEMs for phone calls. Not very convenient, but it works for now. I'm still in search of tws that does both very well without spending insane money.



I’m right there with you. Still on the CA MT. Also considering an upgrade, not in a rush, because I’d rather wait for more LE Audio implementations, but still looking for better sound. Lately I’ve been leaning towards the Free Byrds, the MTW3 (or the ATH-TWX9, but these would definitely be harder to get). Also the new APP2. Still on my iPhone XS finding no reason to upgrade here, as it works flawlessly. 

So basically, my current first world issues on the TWS front are:

Free Byrds
MTW3
ATH-TWX9
APP2

Looking for an all rounder with the best sound quality, around this price point.


----------



## tiagopinto

clerkpalmer said:


> Yeah, the thud is expected but inability to turn off the ANC mics is unforgiveable.



Yep. QCII were dead to me from the start, just because of this. I mean, my CA MT don’t have ANC and I do miss it on occasion. But not being able to turn it off...

Any TWS I plan to get must be a versatile all rounder. No PI7 battery, no always on nothing. I may relinquish Qi but that’s about it.


----------



## subguy812

Nostoi said:


> Friday for me, too


Mine is a Thursday delivery


----------



## Nostoi

subguy812 said:


> Mine is a Thursday delivery


Nice. In my experience, DHL from Amazon Japan is always excellent, and it's often the case the estimate day gets bumped up a day. Maybe us Euro people will also receive on Thursday also....


----------



## tiagopinto

erockg said:


> The FWD-02 IMO.  Missing some feature, but I found them to be better than the other offerings by Adidas.



It’s not that I’m crazy about adidas buds but I might have the chance to get a pair through a connect.

Is the missing feature you mention ANC? I was trying to compare between these two. Not much info at adidas... Have you or anyone tried both? How do they compare sound wise?

Thanks again.


----------



## Windmolinos

Hello all!
I'm looking for an open tws. I don't want airpods ...
Any suggestion?


----------



## cresny

subguy812 said:


> Mine is a Thursday delivery


Oct 10th for me in NY. 🚣‍♂️


----------



## Thesonofkrypton (Sep 26, 2022)

Got the APP2 a couple days ago and gave them all of Saturday and Sunday to decide if I was keeping them.

I didn’t feel like there were stark differences between the 1st gen and these.

I will say that they are the most comfortable I’ve tried and the transparency mode is the best I’ve heard on any wireless set. Works a treat with my iPhone and MacBook Air, seamless almost like magic multipoint transitioning is amazing! Top marks Apple.

However, there’s something about the sound, that while good, doesn’t get me excited about the music. Bit sterile.
Also, the noise cancelling, I keep hearing how good it is, was disappointing to say the least.

Returned them and went back to the xm4, which give music a warmth and sounds so much better than the APP2.  Completely different level.

Also on another level is the ANC. Sony are the best for me, as well as their speak to chat and wind cutting feature, very handy and couldn’t live without them. I do miss the APP2 transparency and comfort though but can live without that until APP3 or xm5 in ears.


----------



## erockg

tiagopinto said:


> It’s not that I’m crazy about adidas buds but I might have the chance to get a pair through a connect.
> 
> Is the missing feature you mention ANC? I was trying to compare between these two. Not much info at adidas... Have you or anyone tried both? How do they compare sound wise?
> 
> Thanks again.


It's been a while, so I can't really say too much about sound.  I did like the FWD-02 better.  I returned the ZNE, but have the FWD here.  They don't have ANC, no volume controls and no wireless charging.  The ZNE has wireless charging.  I had bt issues with the ZNE but not the FWD.  I preferred the fit of the buds and the case of the FWD.  It has a strange cloth removable lid, but it's very thin and fits in your pocket great.  The buds are made by Zound Industries who also make the Marshall TWS buds.  Their tuning sounds great to me.  If you can get them cheap, not a bad deal at all.  I got mine for under 100 USD.


----------



## PixelSquish

Jayment said:


> Hi. I'm planning to buy Sennheiser Momentum True Wireless 3 or   Sony WF-1000XM4. In terms of sound quality, what wired IEM are they comparable to?



I have both of those buds. I can't really compare them to a wired pair but I can say that between the two I feel the Sennheiser have a superior sound that requires no EQ. The XM4 do sound great with some EQ tweaks and I really have fun with those too especially when I want a little bump in bass.

The sennheisers have a much better interface be at the touch controls which are all customizable. To get in and out of ambient mode and noise canceling is superior. If you don't use those a lot then about an issue.

For phone calls indoors I find them both very very good but outdoors when you start getting more noise the XM4 are slightly better.

Also the sennheiser's are much smaller buds, but the XM4 battery life is definitely better


----------



## Not so fat head




----------



## Not so fat head

Xm3 and Buds Pro on close out at Target stores, might be selective..
This is a San Jose store..
California


----------



## Not so fat head

I picked up white xm3's as I'm all Apple.
Nice but big by today's standard..


----------



## Tommy C

Not so fat head said:


> I picked up white xm3's as I'm all Apple.
> Nice but big by today's standard..


For $60 they are a great value


----------



## feverfive

I would **greatly** appreciate it if anyone who is a Mac user and also got, or is getting, the *Audio Technica ATH-TWX9 *can advise how well these work on *macOS* specifically; especially pertaining to solidity of BT connection and any latency/audio lag issues when watching video.  I'm a somewhat weird case in that I'll pretty much never use TWS with my iPhone, but am wanting wireless for use with my Macbook pro.


----------



## Not so fat head

Tommy C said:


> For $60 they are a great value


Size is no big deal, goes with my dumbo ears..  😃


----------



## SilverEars (Sep 26, 2022)

The way he said N400's and buds+ upper-mids are higher than preference, and theses have lower.  I'm sold.  I just ordered.  The past Samsung/AKG TWS had higher upper-mids than I prefer, and I hope these are at a comfortable level.  Man I hope it's not hot at 3k.  Looks like it maybe hot.


----------



## DigDub

SilverEars said:


> The way he said N400's and buds+ upper-mids are higher than preference, and theses have lower.  I'm sold.  I just ordered.  The past Samsung/AKG TWS had higher upper-mids than I prefer, and I hope these are at a comfortable level.



I have the n400 and buds+ too. I agree the treble sounds too hot on them. The buds2 pro tame the highs very well and adds lots of details retrieval in the mids. 

If you are using a Samsung phone which supports the seamless codec, the 24 bit sound brings even more refinement to the sound. Switching between seamless codec and AAC in developer options, AAC sounds congested when the music gets busy, whille seamless codec separates the sound nicely and has a more "uncompressed" sound, the soundstage gets "taller" and "wider". So the seamless codec not only benefits high quality music formats, it also has a better transmission chain which benefits lossy compressed files sound quality as well.


----------



## SilverEars (Sep 27, 2022)

DigDub said:


> I have the n400 and buds+ too. I agree the treble sounds too hot on them. The buds2 pro tame the highs very well and adds lots of details retrieval in the mids.
> 
> If you are using a Samsung phone which supports the seamless codec, the 24 bit sound brings even more refinement to the sound. Switching between seamless codec and AAC in developer options, AAC sounds congested when the music gets busy, whille seamless codec separates the sound nicely and has a more "uncompressed" sound, the soundstage gets "taller" and "wider". So the seamless codec not only benefits high quality music formats, it also has a better transmission chain which benefits lossy compressed files sound quality as well.


cool, my device supports OneUI 4.0.  I need to read up on seemless codec.

Actually, seamless sounds like switches between Samsung devices seemlessly like Apple with their headphones.

I found this tidbit online. "Samsung’s Seamless codec supports up to 24-bit HiFi audio with a maximum bitrate of 512Kbps and a low of 88Kbps." Which sounds like adaptive.  BT is probably generally adaptive as it's connection and interference dependent.  Signal can degrade in certain situations.


----------



## Thesonofkrypton

Was very close to ordering the ATH-TWX9*. *Read some of the translated reviews on Amazon JP especially those comparing the xm4 and seems I've side stepped that landmine lol


----------



## subguy812

Thesonofkrypton said:


> Was very close to ordering the ATH-TWX9*. *Read some of the translated reviews on Amazon JP especially those comparing the xm4 and seems I've side stepped that landmine lol


I read all of those reviews yesterday and didn't really see a ton negative, not sure what the landmine is?


----------



## Thesonofkrypton

subguy812 said:


> I read all of those reviews yesterday and didn't really see a ton negative, not sure what the landmine is?


I did't say there was anything negative, just read the ANC and sound quality are not as good so would have had to import it, realise that, then have the hassle of selling it on.


----------



## cresny

Thesonofkrypton said:


> I did't say there was anything negative, just read the ANC and sound quality are not as good so would have had to import it, realise that, then have the hassle of selling it on.


I don't think anyone expects ANC to be as good as the XM4. My take on the reviews is that the AT has a very different sound signature and it's a matter of preference. Btw, one of those reviews was nearly book length!


----------



## SilverEars (Sep 27, 2022)

I'm also interested in the APP 2nd gen.  Here is Crin's measurements.  This garners some interest from me.  Will have to find out how it sounds. Wonder how relatively high the 6-9k will sound, but 7k is boosted for transparency.  Lots of TWS updates from big brands this fall!  There's also the new Bose with the smaller form-factor.


----------



## Thesonofkrypton

cresny said:


> I don't think anyone expects ANC to be as good as the XM4. My take on the reviews is that the AT has a very different sound signature and it's a matter of preference. Btw, one of those reviews was nearly book length!


lol yes saw that one, I kept scrolling down on my phone and I thought I'd hit the wrong link or something - it went on for miles!


----------



## subguy812

cresny said:


> I don't think anyone expects ANC to be as good as the XM4. My take on the reviews is that the AT has a very different sound signature and it's a matter of preference. Btw, one of those reviews was nearly book length!


Yes. Mine are out for delivery today. I don't expect them to have XM4 ANC, I own the XM4 as well. Most of the comments are very positive about sq. I will let you know soon enough


----------



## SilverEars

What, Crin is hyping the APP 2nd gen as well.  Hell naw!!!  No money for so many.


----------



## leftside

I've been trying out a bunch of these TWS IEMs lately (usual suspects: LinkBud S, Galaxy Buds Pro, Senns, etc), but have been waiting to try the APP 2 before I made the purchase. Ended up getting the Sony XM4. I'm only really interested in sound quality, and these suited my personal tastes the best. I thought they had a more natural and warmer sound with the tightest bass. Others had a wider separation of sound, but in the end I settled on the XM4.


----------



## bladefd

tiagopinto said:


> I’m right there with you. Still on the CA MT. Also considering an upgrade, not in a rush, because I’d rather wait for more LE Audio implementations, but still looking for better sound. Lately I’ve been leaning towards the Free Byrds, the MTW3 (or the ATH-TWX9, but these would definitely be harder to get). Also the new APP2. Still on my iPhone XS finding no reason to upgrade here, as it works flawlessly.
> 
> So basically, my current first world issues on the TWS front are:
> 
> ...


Free byrds seem too massive imo
I have been thinking about the mtw3
The twx9 has to be shipped from Japan. I worry about warranty stuff
App 2 nah. I use android


----------



## subguy812




----------



## BooleanBones

subguy812 said:


>


we can get pictures anywhere, hurry up already!


----------



## subguy812




----------



## subguy812 (Sep 27, 2022)

I will say so far I am really digging the ATH-TWX9 sound. There are many variables to the sound with regards to having an effect on the signature. I have not scratched the surface, very hesitant to give brief impressions. With full ANC, EQ disabled, I have sampled the Yellowjackets, Infected Mushroom and Ozzy. The sound is full and rich. These really have a natural tonality for a wireless, cymbals crash with nice decay. Bass is snappy with enough decay to have a good sub rumble. The details definitely get through and are present.
I will need time to test ANC etc. But so far so good!!!

Edit: When EQ is enabled you lose volume.


----------



## Not so fat head

subguy812 said:


> I will say so far I am really digging the ATH-TWX9 sound. There are many variables to the sound with regards to having an effect on the signature. I have not scratched the surface, very hesitant to give brief impressions. With full ANC, EQ disabled, I have sampled the Yellowjackets, Infected Mushroom and Ozzy. The sound is full and rich. These really have a natural tonality for a wireless, cymbals crash with nice decay. Bass is snappy with enough decay to have a good sub rumble. The details definitely get through and are present.
> I will need time to test ANC etc. But so far so good!!!
> 
> Edit: When EQ is enabled you lose volume.


Infected Mushroom...  😃


----------



## subguy812




----------



## dweaver

DigDub said:


> I have the n400 and buds+ too. I agree the treble sounds too hot on them. The buds2 pro tame the highs very well and adds lots of details retrieval in the mids.
> 
> If you are using a Samsung phone which supports the seamless codec, the 24 bit sound brings even more refinement to the sound. Switching between seamless codec and AAC in developer options, AAC sounds congested when the music gets busy, whille seamless codec separates the sound nicely and has a more "uncompressed" sound, the soundstage gets "taller" and "wider". So the seamless codec not only benefits high quality music formats, it also has a better transmission chain which benefits lossy compressed files sound quality as well.


Darn you and @SilverEars and Crinnacle!  I just couldn't stand it, I ordered a pair from Samsung with a bit of financing to spread out the pain. Just need to see if Samsung has succeeded on something Sony just seems unable to do in regards to Codecs. I have the current GBuds Pro so will be able to compare. If they have bigger bass, a bit more tamed upper mids and all this added sound stage, detail, separation etc I will have a new favorite toy.

From what I have read they are more comfortable and fit better than the GBuds Pro which would also be a bonus along with more standard tips...

Here I am drinking more of the Samsung coolaid...


----------



## SilverEars (Sep 27, 2022)

I just got them in and they haven't succeeded.  It's just another avg TWS.  The ANC is ok, not much better.  I'm underwhelmed.  The tonality is better than their previous stuff, but it technically sucks balls. lol.

Maybe one day I will run into a TWS with good technicalities.  I'm generally underwhelmed by BT products.  Nothing all that exciting sound wise.  It's just for utility.  That is all.  APP 2's sound suppression thing seems cool.


----------



## gabriely

Trying the Comply tips that came with the B&O EX. Feels like it makes the sound warmer by de-emphasizing treble... just my ears playing tricks on me or is that what it's supposed to do? 

I'm so new to the hobby that I'm discovering things everyday lol. Love it. These buds are probably gonna sink me down a whole new rabbit hole - hell it probably already has considering I'm looking at the Hifiman XS 🤣


----------



## gabriely

SilverEars said:


> I just got them in and they haven't succeeded.  It's just another avg TWS.  The ANC is ok, not much better.  I'm underwhelmed.  The tonality is better than their previous stuff, but it technically sucks balls. lol.
> 
> Maybe one day I will run into a TWS with good technicalities.  I'm generally underwhelmed by BT products.  Nothing all that exciting sound wise.  It's just for utility.  That is all.  APP 2's sound suppression thing seems cool.


This is about the APP2 or Samsung Buds 2 Pro? And man it's unfortunate to hear that... there are sadly too few tws with decent technical capability hahahaha


----------



## SilverEars (Sep 27, 2022)

gabriely said:


> This is about the APP2 or Samsung Buds 2 Pro? And man it's unfortunate to hear that... there are sadly too few tws with decent technical capability hahahaha


Samsung Buds 2 Pro.  I just saw a vid on the APP2, and the sound suppression feature seems really cool and useful if you are in the city.

They are ok at best, nothing really all that spectacular.  The convenience and what features they offer are what helps them stand out.


----------



## erockg

SilverEars said:


> Samsung Buds 2 Pro.  I just saw a vid on the APP2, and the sound suppression feature seems really cool and useful if you are in the city.
> 
> They are ok at best, nothing really all that spectacular.  The convenience and what features they offer are what helps them stand out.


You kinda get what you pay for.  If you want great TWS, it's the Noble Fokus Pro or for a lot of us, the B&O EX.  But you know, nothing will compare to a great wired IEM.  That said, I do think the GB2 Pro sound better than the APP first gen by far, haven't heard APP2 yet.  Soon!  I like the AKG tuning of the GB2 Pro.  They're great for sleeping.  Granted, I paid $30 or so bucks for mine, so I can forgive their pitfalls.  But you nailed it, they're built for the convenience and features.  Great on Android but you need to go into Labs and turn on the other features to get them over to an iPhone.


----------



## erockg

dweaver said:


> Darn you and @SilverEars and Crinnacle!  I just couldn't stand it, I ordered a pair from Samsung with a bit of financing to spread out the pain. Just need to see if Samsung has succeeded on something Sony just seems unable to do in regards to Codecs. I have the current GBuds Pro so will be able to compare. If they have bigger bass, a bit more tamed upper mids and all this added sound stage, detail, separation etc I will have a new favorite toy.
> 
> From what I have read they are more comfortable and fit better than the GBuds Pro which would also be a bonus along with more standard tips...
> 
> Here I am drinking more of the Samsung coolaid...


Hey, I'm an Apple fanboy and I do love my GB2 Pro buds.  I use them all the time.  They DO fit waaaaay better than the first gen.  I think you'll really enjoy them.


----------



## erockg

gabriely said:


> Trying the Comply tips that came with the B&O EX. Feels like it makes the sound warmer by de-emphasizing treble... just my ears playing tricks on me or is that what it's supposed to do?
> 
> I'm so new to the hobby that I'm discovering things everyday lol. Love it. These buds are probably gonna sink me down a whole new rabbit hole - hell it probably already has considering I'm looking at the Hifiman XS 🤣


I keep swapping tips on mine and then wind up going back to the stock silicone large!  Glad you dig them.  They're great.


----------



## dweaver

SilverEars said:


> I just got them in and they haven't succeeded.  It's just another avg TWS.  The ANC is ok, not much better.  I'm underwhelmed.  The tonality is better than their previous stuff, but it technically sucks balls. lol.
> 
> Maybe one day I will run into a TWS with good technicalities.  I'm generally underwhelmed by BT products.  Nothing all that exciting sound wise.  It's just for utility.  That is all.  APP 2's sound suppression thing seems cool.


Now you just made me sad... LOL

We're you a le to try the Samsung hires codec? If so what did you notice different?

I just ordered the pair and it's coming from Samsung and they say they are backlogged so I will some time to cancel if I want.

@DigDub keep giving your impressions. BTW did you the original GBuds Pro? If so how do they compare? I own them and do like their sound for the most part which is part of why I am giving these a try to see how the hires codec sounds.


----------



## Tommy C

SilverEars said:


> I just got them in and they haven't succeeded.  It's just another avg TWS.  The ANC is ok, not much better.  I'm underwhelmed.  The tonality is better than their previous stuff, but it technically sucks balls. lol.
> 
> Maybe one day I will run into a TWS with good technicalities.  I'm generally underwhelmed by BT products.  Nothing all that exciting sound wise.  It's just for utility.  That is all.  APP 2's sound suppression thing seems cool.


Have you tried TWS adapters such as the Shure TW2? Currently using mine and they definitely sound better than any other TWS but it all depends also what IEMs you’re hooking them up to. 
But all in all they sound as good as wired IEMs.


----------



## SilverEars (Sep 27, 2022)

dweaver said:


> Now you just made me sad... LOL
> 
> We're you a le to try the Samsung hires codec? If so what did you notice different?
> 
> ...


Sorry, I feel like I led you on or something.  I just saw Crin's post, and garnered some interest and tried it out, and turned out to be underwhelming.

I really don't care what the codec is as long as it's minimum AAC level.  There really is no lossless codec out there.  FLAC is still a fairly high bitrate compared to any BT codecs out there.  I think with BT there is the issue of signal quality variations through time.  That's why codecs are generally adaptive.

Even Samsung's 'seamless' codec is pretty much marketing concept that doesn't improve the quality significant enough.  It sounds to be like another adaptive codec that has a bandwidth cap. Sure, some codecs are more efficient than others like AAC.

I have tried putting LDAC on fixed bitrate, the signal gets degraded depending on the environment. Which is why LDAC is defaulted to be adaptive like other codecs.  In reality, it doesn't not function like advertised.  The bitrate varies with a low cap.  This is to hide noticeable signal degradation effects.


----------



## chinmie

dweaver said:


> Now you just made me sad... LOL
> 
> We're you a le to try the Samsung hires codec? If so what did you notice different?
> 
> ...



i recently tried the samsung buds pro 2 on an audio meet, a friend brought his unit. I only tested it briefly and only focusing on the sound (didn't test the anc, ambient, and other features) 
i think it sounded really good..similar tuning as the previous G buds, but with a calmer treble. I like the smaller size too


----------



## DigDub

dweaver said:


> Now you just made me sad... LOL
> 
> We're you a le to try the Samsung hires codec? If so what did you notice different?
> 
> ...


I have the buds pro as well. The buds pro has more elevated bass and treble which makes for a more exciting sound. The buds2 pro sounds more refined and less fatiguing. I find myself enjoy listening the buds2 pro for a longer stretch. The bass is pretty unique, unlike most earbuds that adds bass to everything, the bass on the buds2 pro appears only when necessary, and when they show up, it rumbles deep and impactful.


----------



## gabriely

erockg said:


> I keep swapping tips on mine and then wind up going back to the stock silicone large!  Glad you dig them.  They're great.


They really are hahaha. Usually with IEMs people switch tips a lot, so I'm really surprised the stock silicone tips seems to be the most universally well-loved ones for the EXs haha


----------



## Nostoi

Also received... Let's try out these bad boys.


----------



## subguy812

Nostoi said:


> Also received... Let's try out these bad boys.


Give them a whirl...nice package.


----------



## Juturna

Bought a pair of Liberty 3 Pro's from a dude on a local Android forum, and wouldn't you know it... EXTREME channel imbalance. Went into wavelet and had to lower the right earbuds volume by about 8-9 dB to make them even in volume... I felt like I got fooled like you wouldn't believe it. 
Fortunately the guy I bought them from seems to be a class act and instantly sent me my money back and said that I could keep the earbuds as well. But I managed to convince him to try and RMA/send the earbuds in as a warranty claim so he can hopefully get a new set of earbuds sent out to him that he can sell for a higher price than the ones he sold to me. 
It was lucky that neither of us were crappy people, I guess?


----------



## C_Lindbergh

I also got the ATH-TWX9! 

First initial impressions are mostly positive. 

Sound quality is to my liking, but haven't found the right tip just yet. 

Build quality seems great, the app have many settings. I'm loving that the ATH-TWX9 have both touch and a button on each stem. Will be very useful to activate the quick hear through when I'm at work without having to take my work gloves off! 

But I'd love to se fully customizable controls... Also the LED on the case is very bright. 😂


----------



## Nostoi

subguy812 said:


> Give them a whirl...nice package.


First impressions:

1. Nice packing indeed. Very premium. Solid build, 
2. Very comfortable. Haven't tried different tips, but stock installed ones work perfectly. 
3. Sound: when I first played them, I thought they sound a bit congested and rather bloated. I then realized the noise cancelling was on and set to "airplane" mode, which seem to raise mid-bass. Turning everything off gives a much clearer presentation. Overall presentation is rather linear, quite conservative I'd say. I hear an airy but not sparkly top end, flattish mids, and a fairly linear bass end with a slight mid-bass hump. Technically, they have a fairly solid performance with a good sense of stage. Imaging and layering are what one would expect. 

I'm not too familiar with TWS though I've owned recent ones by Sony, Senn, and Final. I'd say these are certainly in the upper tier. That said, they remain at the quality of TWS earphones. I would not classify the presentation as "audiophile." Compared to the $100 IE100 Pro, the latter are better in every respect. Someone earlier made a reference to IE900 above. You may prefer the tuning of the TWX9 in terms of being warmer as a matter of personal taste, but otherwise there's no correlation whatsoever between these models. 

As TWS earphones, however, they're very good - I can see them being put to good use for general use; podcasts, music, films, etc.


----------



## dweaver

DigDub said:


> I have the buds pro as well. The buds pro has more elevated bass and treble which makes for a more exciting sound. The buds2 pro sounds more refined and less fatiguing. I find myself enjoy listening the buds2 pro for a longer stretch. The bass is pretty unique, unlike most earbuds that adds bass to everything, the bass on the buds2 pro appears only when necessary, and when they show up, it rumbles deep and impactful.


Thanks that helps alot! so these will be less warm but hit hard when it's in the song. Very AKG like, if they are less fatiguing I think thats a positive as AKG house sound can be fatiguing. I think I am going to give them a whirl as I am a but of an AKG fan boy. They will be a stark contrast  to the Sony Linkbuds S and Technics AZ60. They might be more like the AZ70.


----------



## cr3ativ3

Has anyone already an graph from the new Bose QC 2 ?


----------



## SilverEars (Sep 28, 2022)

Definately smooth sig.  Too smooth for my taste although I find some of the popular ones on this thread v-shaped and above my tolerable treble threshold.  This one is directly opposite.  It loses a bit of the nuances of the mids.  Bass a bit boomy and greater than the level I prefer.  This kind of bass quality is quite  common among BT earphones.

I went for a run today with the GBP2, and my earphones rubs against the earphone causing conduction noise.  A bit of an annoyance for such usage.  Yeah, I'm not fan.  It's mainly the price.  Also, I have higher standards/expectations since TWS tech has been out for quite a while.  I want to see some advancement in SQ or a significant price drop for the same tech.  I probably be in hibernation for awhile until perhaps a game changer shows up some day.


----------



## dweaver

I hear you @SilverEars , improvement in sound quality seems hard to find. Not your fault I succumbed to buying my pair BTW 😎. I have a soft spot for Samsung/AKG and Sony so have been fighting the itch to buy these for a while. I should just wait for the inevitable price drop. 

If I had any sense I would save my pennies and get one really good TWS or wait until a real game changer comes along.


----------



## Pete7874

FYI, Soundcore Liberty 3 Pro is currently on Lightning Deal on Amazon for $99.99.  

Thinking of giving them a try to see how they compare to my old 2 Pro.


----------



## potix

...


----------



## potix

SilverEars said:


> I'm also interested in the APP 2nd gen.  Here is Crin's measurements.  This garners some interest from me.  Will have to find out how it sounds. Wonder how relatively high the 6-9k will sound, but 7k is boosted for transparency.  Lots of TWS updates from big brands this fall!  There's also the new Bose with the smaller form-factor.





SilverEars said:


> I really don't care what the codec is as long as it's minimum AAC level.  There really is no lossless codec out there.  FLAC is still a fairly high bitrate compared to any BT codecs out there.  I think with BT there is the issue of signal quality variations through time.  That's why codecs are generally adaptive.
> 
> Even Samsung's 'seamless' codec is pretty much marketing concept that doesn't improve the quality significant enough.  It sounds to be like another adaptive codec that has a bandwidth cap. Sure, some codecs are more efficient than others like AAC.
> 
> I have tried putting LDAC on fixed bitrate, the signal gets degraded depending on the environment. Which is why LDAC is defaulted to be adaptive like other codecs.  In reality, it doesn't not function like advertised.  The bitrate varies with a low cap.  This is to hide noticeable signal degradation effects.





Nostoi said:


> I'm not too familiar with TWS though I've owned recent ones by Sony, Senn, and Final. I'd say these are certainly in the upper tier. That said, they remain at the quality of TWS earphones. I would not classify the presentation as "audiophile." Compared to the $100 IE100 Pro, the latter are better in every respect. Someone earlier made a reference to IE900 above. You may prefer the tuning of the TWX9 in terms of being warmer as a matter of personal taste, but otherwise there's no correlation whatsoever between these models.
> 
> As TWS earphones, however, they're very good - I can see them being put to good use for general use; podcasts, music, films, etc.



There are 3 ways to improve TWS quality: tuning, efficiency and codecs.
Bluetooth is limited but with aptx lossless we reached the cd quality.
We should stop investing money in the last device on the market and choose in a responsible way. Place like this are the last stand. Many people are still reading forums.
Next year from now we must be "there yet".


----------



## Not so fat head

I would think the AT TWX9's will sound superb..  They always use the number 9 to denote best in class.
I have two pair of the ATH-DSR9's bought on a blowout sale at Fry's during covid.  They have unique chips and drivers, and are excellent.


----------



## subguy812 (Sep 29, 2022)

Not so fat head said:


> I would think the AT TWX9's will sound superb..  They always use the number 9 to denote best in class.
> I have two pair of the ATH-DSR9's bought on a blowout sale at Fry's during covid.  They have unique chips and drivers, and are excellent.


IMO the TWX9 are top tier. There are many factors within the app which can alter the signature. It just takes patience and experimentation to find your sweet spot.  I have shut off EQ, I find I don't need it and it does cut the volume slightly. It is common for me to not use EQ, XM4's are the only bud I use eq on. Just to get it out of the way, this sounds signature checks so many of my boxes. I have not A/B'ed with the B&O EX, which would be the closest competition, in my TWS collection, sound wise to the TWX9.

Packaging and stock items are premium. The ear tip selection is top notch, I have only used the long L tips. All tips are silicon. The Free Byrd's and TWX9 have the best selection I have seen.

The build quality is also premium. The case is big, the led's, especially when in sanitize mode will light the bedroom at night.

As far as ANC, there are many options including optimized, which is what I currently use. For my needs it is better than EX and not as solid as XM4. I am a bad reference for ANC, I don't commute and most of my walking is on quieter streets. I plan on testing this weekend as well as call quality, can't he outside as we have had nasty hurricane weather.

I will complete my thoughts on Audio Rabbit Hole. Suffice it to say the sound quality is in the top tier.


----------



## Caipirina (Sep 29, 2022)

I also got mail! And no, not the TWX9 




Very first impressions: 
- How dare they arrive with only 20% battery on the buds? 
- Whoever called this 'Bose sound on steroids' has a point! Smooth low bass! 
- The ANC, now with proper band and tips, is indeed very awesome! I happen to have an active construction site close by, all ANC buds could deal with the rumble, but one machine does some annoying ringing noise .. this is gone now! 
- There is some white noise when ANC is on / no music playing ... personally I don't mind it .. actually, if I had not read about this here, I would have blamed my old ears .

The fit is not very awesome, as if they managed to magically integrate the best of the StayHear tips into the actual buds. 

Can't believe AliExpress does not have any case bumpers yet. They were pretty quick with the Free Byrds ...


----------



## J_3000 (Sep 29, 2022)

Im really waiting to hear more about the ATH-TWX9. Specially interested on the sound and call quality.

Ive been using EX and Im quite happy with them. Its a good package, where everything is good. SQ is times very delightful for a TWS. Call quality is decent. The design is great, they look cool. I have good fit with Spinfit cp360 M. The biggest stocktips are also ok.

They do have a limited app, some connection bugs and annoying bug where anc defaults to "on" on every startup.

I paid 310€ from them at the end, and think it was worth it. Compared to (returned) the MTW3's for 210€ these are much better sound and call quality wise.

These have a balanced and pleasing sound, compared to the MTW3's which I would describe as dull. At the same time L3P's have so much more power, but taming that in is not easy.

Im not sure can the ATH-TWX9 reach above the EX level on the sound and call quality.

I would prefer not to buy electronics that just rot away and have one device I use always.


----------



## tombrisbane

Couldn’t help myself and ordered the Bose QCII buds.  I enjoy the QC’s so sounds like they’ll be a good step up (and should probably sell them on now!).  Busy two weeks with these and the APP2 (plus I have two full size arrivals )


----------



## subguy812

J_3000 said:


> Im really waiting to hear more about the ATH-TWX9. Specially interested on the sound and call quality.
> 
> Ive been using EX and Im quite happy with them. Its a good package, where everything is good. SQ is times very delightful for a TWS. Call quality is decent. The design is great, they look cool. I have good fit with Spinfit cp360 M. The biggest stocktips are also ok.
> 
> ...


Being an EX-owner, I will do my best to compare the two as we go along. I am impressed with the TWX9 sound, but when you throw in "reaching above" the EX, at this point I think it will come down to nuances for you because you are an EX owner. I feel the TWX9 holds it own, but I don't have enough experience yet with it. At this point, I believe it will become nuances only.


----------



## Juturna (Sep 29, 2022)

This is kinda frustrating, I told y'all about the Soundcore L3P's that I bought and then got the money back from because of the volume difference between the two earbuds.
After cleaning the filters/nozzles with alcohol based on guidance from Soundcore's website, they sound at least close to what they should... with just a slight feeling that I'm hearing a *little *less detail on my left ear, but I'm actually starting to think that the REST of this "imbalance" is honestly just my left ear being wonky, possibly from wax buildup from using my Galaxy Buds Pro.
Because I know I get A LOT more ear wax when using them compared to the rest of my "arsenal", and since I lost my previous pair of L3P's I have been using the GBP's quite heavily.
Vocals just sound sliiightly panned to the right, but it's very subtle and sometimes I just can't remember if the track actually features the main vocal track more heavily on the right side lol, and trying to put the right earbud in the left ear and vice versa honestly... doesn't change much.
I feel like I hear some details better on the left with the earbuds reversed, but the vocals still kinda panned to the right-ish which makes me think its my left ear.

*So right now I'm faced with a dilemma; 
I can either give them back to the guy I bought them from who will send them in for replacement (which might not happen if they can't replicate the issue IF it is in fact my ears that are the remaining issue which means unnecessary waiting to get the same pair back) which if it works, will mean that I can buy the new ones he gets for a decent price. 
But the other option is honestly just keeping this set that may or _may not_ be slightly wonky... for free. 
The dude still reiterated today that I can keep them for free if I want to "for the trouble", because he hadn't checked them prior to selling them. 
Right now i'm actually only about 50/50 on whether the remaining issue is only my ears or if it's the earbuds. *

What would you guys do?


----------



## gebri

Visit a doctor to let clean your ears and then try again?


----------



## Juturna

gebri said:


> Visit a doctor to let clean your ears and then try again?


I most likely will, but I know it'll take some time before I can book an appointment, I don't think this random stranger will wait for me to find a doctor, find a time that fits me that suits my work schedule, book the appointment, and then actually have the appointment before we make the decision lol. 
Otherwise a solid idea.


----------



## gebri

You cannot hear this difference with other buds? Or don't you have some at hands?


----------



## chinmie

Juturna said:


> This is kinda frustrating, I told y'all about the Soundcore L3P's that I bought and then got the money back from because of the volume difference between the two earbuds.
> After cleaning the filters/nozzles with alcohol based on guidance from Soundcore's website, they sound at least close to what they should... with just a slight feeling that I'm hearing a *little *less detail on my left ear, but I'm actually starting to think that the REST of this "imbalance" is honestly just my left ear being wonky, possibly from wax buildup from using my Galaxy Buds Pro.
> Because I know I get A LOT more ear wax when using them compared to the rest of my "arsenal", and since I lost my previous pair of L3P's I have been using the GBP's quite heavily.
> Vocals just sound sliiightly panned to the right, but it's very subtle and sometimes I just can't remember if the track actually features the main vocal track more heavily on the right side lol, and trying to put the right earbud in the left ear and vice versa honestly... doesn't change much.
> ...



try using other earbuds/iems and use frequency sweep test (this site might help https://www.audiocheck.net/audiotests_index.php ) to check if the imbalance problem is only on the L3P or from the ears. 

I hope it helps


----------



## Juturna (Sep 29, 2022)

gebri said:


> You cannot hear this difference with other buds? Or don't you have some at hands?


I've tried using my Galaxy Buds Pros, and i'm constantly second guessing myself. I _think _I kinda hear the same thing there. But I hadn't given it even a single thought until now when I had to compare.


chinmie said:


> try using other earbuds/iems and use frequency sweep test (this site might help https://www.audiocheck.net/audiotests_index.php ) to check if the imbalance problem is only on the L3P or from the ears.
> 
> I hope it helps


I actually already tried some of the tests there but I'm not sure, did the "driver matching" test and I definitely get some panning during that tests, and it pans the opposite way when I switch and put my earbuds in the wrong ear. It's not 100% "in the middle of my head" as they say it should be, it starts slightly right of center in my head and then I feel like it's panning left as the frequency rises and then a little back to the right as we get to the highest frequencies, but it's extremely subtle! 

Also adjusting the fit actually makes it not appear as if it's panning which makes me even more confused.


----------



## WesennTony

Can anyone comment on APP2 in terms of ANC, comparing with QC1? Having both QC1 and QC2, I don't expect APP2 can beat QC2, but if they can achieve the level of QC1, I may tempt to have a try. Thanks!


----------



## Nostoi

Updated impressions on TWX9. I changed stock tips to Final's Edge E Series. This seems to give a more clarity and clean up the mid-bass bump I hear on stock tips. On stock tips, I have to use "Treble Enhance" EQ setting to tailor to my taste, whereas Final tips don't require an EQing. I would say they've grown on my after this bit of tip rolling; they respond very well to well produced music, sound spacious and detailed. On poorly recorded music, they can sound a little cloggy. But generally, top tier.


----------



## chinmie

Juturna said:


> I've tried using my Galaxy Buds Pros, and i'm constantly second guessing myself. I _think _I kinda hear the same thing there. But I hadn't given it even a single thought until now when I had to compare.
> 
> I actually already tried some of the tests there but I'm not sure, did the "driver matching" test and I definitely get some panning during that tests, and it pans the opposite way when I switch and put my earbuds in the wrong ear. It's not 100% "in the middle of my head" as they say it should be, it starts slightly right of center in my head and then I feel like it's panning left as the frequency rises and then a little back to the right as we get to the highest frequencies, but it's extremely subtle!
> 
> Also adjusting the fit actually makes it not appear as if it's panning which makes me even more confused.



hmmm.. if you switch the earbuds positions and the panning also changes direction, then i guess that L3P unit indeed have imbalance issues.. 
just to make sure, did you have the same panning when listening to the test using other earphones?


----------



## SilverEars

Caipirina said:


> I also got mail! And no, not the TWX9
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I didn't know QCE2 was released already.  It says Oct 3 on the webpage.  I was impressed with the soundstage and bass with the first one.  I hope this one is just as good or better with smaller formfactor because I hated the bulk.


----------



## erockg

Caipirina said:


> I also got mail! And no, not the TWX9
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I love mine.  New version blows away the first gen.  I use the QCII every day.  ANC is spectacular.  Sometimes I use them without music just to silence the world.  Sound is great.  The form factor is soooooo much better that the first gen which were huge.  No issues on calls or Zoom with them.  Very curious to hear more feedback about the ANC vs APP2.  I'm experiencing a few bugs whereas the buds will not power on and/or connect right away.  Have to put them in the case and reconnect.  The B&O EX used to do this, but seems to have sorted it out.  The Bose Music app sometimes won't connect with the QCII.  Reboot fixes it.  Doesn't happen often.  Frustrating, but I'm sure Bose will fix this at some point.  I still wish the case had Qi.


----------



## Phaethon

erockg said:


> I love mine.  New version blows away the first gen.  I use the QCII every day.  ANC is spectacular.  Sometimes I use them without music just to silence the world.  Sound is great.  The form factor is soooooo much better that the first gen which were huge.  No issues on calls or Zoom with them.  Very curious to hear more feedback about the ANC vs APP2.  I'm experiencing a few bugs whereas the buds will not power on and/or connect right away.  Have to put them in the case and reconnect.  The B&O EX used to do this, but seems to have sorted it out.  The Bose Music app sometimes won't connect with the QCII.  Reboot fixes it.  Doesn't happen often.  Frustrating, but I'm sure Bose will fix this at some point.  I still wish the case had Qi.


Agreed. The sound is so up my alley. I find these are the ones I keep grabbing, as well as the Galaxy Buds Pro 2 which work just fine for me in the Apple ecosystem. If I need to do work type stuff, I grab my APP. If I’m driving, the GBP 2. And for walking around in and out of the house (or kicking back on the couch), it’s the QCII.


----------



## dweaver

Just got an email from Anker about the Soundcore Liberty 4 that look interesting. I assume the Liberty model is a step down from the Liberty Pro line, correct? Or more of a side grade as it's a stem design?

It has dual dynamic drivers versus BA/Dynamic. It looks interesting. The heartbeat thing would be interesting to see how accurate my Fitbit Sense is .

Anyone trying this baby out?


----------



## erockg

dweaver said:


> Just got an email from Anker about the Soundcore Liberty 4 that look interesting. I assume the Liberty model is a step down from the Liberty Pro line, correct? Or more of a side grade as it's a stem design?
> 
> It has dual dynamic drivers versus BA/Dynamic. It looks interesting. The heartbeat thing would be interesting to see how accurate my Fitbit Sense is .
> 
> Anyone trying this baby out?


I just ordered the other pair they released - new Sleep A10 buds with a 20% off coupon SLEEPWELL.  I'm always on a quest to find more sleep.  Never happens!


----------



## erockg

Phaethon said:


> Agreed. The sound is so up my alley. I find these are the ones I keep grabbing, as well as the Galaxy Buds Pro 2 which work just fine for me in the Apple ecosystem. If I need to do work type stuff, I grab my APP. If I’m driving, the GBP 2. And for walking around in and out of the house (or kicking back on the couch), it’s the QCII.


I was actually going to sell my APP1 and get the 2nd gen but just read they're adding that Adaptive Transparency mode to APP1 in iOS 16.1.  They got me with the on bud volume controls.  Damn Apple, always late to the party with expected features!  Decisions decisions.


----------



## dweaver

erockg said:


> I just ordered the other pair they released - new Sleep A10 buds with a 20% off coupon SLEEPWELL.  I'm always on a quest to find more sleep.  Never happens!


Those look very interesting! Like you I am also on the lookout for things that help my sleep.


----------



## Caipirina

There's a Soundcore Liberty 4 now? but no 'Pro'? 




Still watching this myself  



Not to be outdone ... our very own @regancipher  has the new Soundpeats Life on YT


----------



## FYLegend

Juturna said:


> Bought a pair of Liberty 3 Pro's from a dude on a local Android forum, and wouldn't you know it... EXTREME channel imbalance. Went into wavelet and had to lower the right earbuds volume by about 8-9 dB to make them even in volume... I felt like I got fooled like you wouldn't believe it.
> Fortunately the guy I bought them from seems to be a class act and instantly sent me my money back and said that I could keep the earbuds as well. But I managed to convince him to try and RMA/send the earbuds in as a warranty claim so he can hopefully get a new set of earbuds sent out to him that he can sell for a higher price than the ones he sold to me.
> It was lucky that neither of us were crappy people, I guess?


That's really bad luck. I've encountered channel imbalance with many products (ANBES 359 clones, Tronsmart Onyx Neo and 2 Sabbat E12s) but L3P is not one of them out of the box. However, after long term usage they seem to clog with ear wax and possibly driver flex too and one side gets slightly quieter. A jet of canned air seems to do the job but you have to do this at an off angle or you could risk damaging the driver.

Wavelet is a major disappointment for the L3P. The clipping is insane in some tracks. The inbuilt EQ is ok but lacks true versatility to get them closer to the Harman sound.

After listening to L3P I feel like everything else sounds rolled off in treble or low in subbass


----------



## TIEM

Caipirina said:


> There's a Soundcore Liberty 4 now? but no 'Pro'?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Damn! I have to say Soundcore ace the packaging every time.


----------



## Caipirina

SilverEars said:


> I didn't know QCE2 was released already.  It says Oct 3 on the webpage.  I was impressed with the soundstage and bass with the first one.  I hope this one is just as good or better with smaller formfactor because I hated the bulk.


Thought it already came out in the US on 9/15, here in Japan rls date was 9/29, delivery was spot on


----------



## Caipirina

erockg said:


> I love mine.  New version blows away the first gen.  I use the QCII every day.  ANC is spectacular.  Sometimes I use them without music just to silence the world.



but you DO hear the white noise? Maybe also not much bothered by it? 




erockg said:


> Sound is great.  The form factor is soooooo much better that the first gen which were huge.  No issues on calls or Zoom with them.  Very curious to hear more feedback about the ANC vs APP2.  I'm experiencing a few bugs whereas the buds will not power on and/or connect right away.  Have to put them in the case and reconnect.



Also a few minor bugs in that direction .. especially now that I have included my mac in the device list ... it connected fine just now, but somehow only one side .. and the ANC would not go on ... few kinks they hopefully work out with FW updates


----------



## Benedict Leung

subguy812 said:


> I had a comical moment yesterday. I had my B&O EX at the pool and someone noticed them and inquired. I switched to an ultra hd track and said here you go. He put them in his ears and the gradual grin turned into an out and out toothy smile. He took them out and said WOW and I thought my AirPods were good. Then he raved about them looking so quality. He asked about the price, I told him, and he said "Wait, I see you in the pool with these and they are $400"?
> 
> Magical moment for this dude. LOL
> 
> Next up is the ATH-TWX9, hopefully I receive a shipping notice this week.


I really hope I can hear your impressions and comparison of the EX and the TWX9, I'm torn between the two.... 🤧


----------



## webvan

Yeah the QCII have a pleasant sound and good ANC, thought it was the best yet...until I used them in a loud food court and found they just didn't deal well with all the voices. Still that's a marginal case. 
Biggest oversight is the lack of a passive mode (and absence of wind cancelation) like on the QCI, what's wrong with BOSE!


----------



## J_3000

Lets talk about earwax! 

so, I noticed my right EX is a bit quieter than the left one. Before thinking its a techical flaw and real channel imbalance, I would think to clean the protective meshes. How do you people do this? to me every way of cleaning feels like pusing everything deeper and tighter in to the mesh. Have you guys tried any dissolving liquids? i think there are some even for ear canals, could that work?


----------



## Caipirina (Sep 30, 2022)

webvan said:


> Yeah the QCII have a pleasant sound and good ANC, thought it was the best yet...until I used them in a loud food court and found they just didn't deal well with all the voices. Still that's a marginal case.
> Biggest oversight is the lack of a passive mode (and absence of wind cancelation) like on the QCI, what's wrong with BOSE!


I actually did a 21K run with them today and after some initial struggle (unseal noise on each foot fall) once I somehow reached the perfect fit / seal, they became surprisingly low-thud (there’s actually an Amazon review describing pretty much the same. Lemme see if I can find again) Maybe my ears and or the silicone warmed up and bonded, guess milage greatly varies with fit. But I was very happy. No connection issues whatsoever. Brilliant & dynamic sound. Guess that’s my TotL for a good while. I might grab the APP2 when I get to North America next year. At current prices here (or EU) they are a no no.
Wonder if Sony will have an XM5 in the pipeline.




And while I really enjoy the new Bose, I can totally understand how the white noise could be a deal breaker for ppl (or the reported call quality, which i cannot comment on, I don’t do calls)


----------



## webvan (Sep 30, 2022)

Good news for the "thud" that works for you but what about the wind 'noise? Even when walking you can hear it so when running it's really bad. Did you find a setting that cancels it? There "running" mode is just ANC set to 50% AFAICT.


----------



## nekonhime

Caipirina said:


> I actually did a 21K run with them today and after some initial struggle (unseal noise on each foot fall) once I somehow reached the perfect fit / seal, they became surprisingly low-thud (there’s actually an Amazon review describing pretty much the same. Lemme see if I can find again) Maybe my ears and or the silicone warmed up and bonded, guess milage greatly varies with fit. But I was very happy. No connection issues whatsoever. Brilliant & dynamic sound. Guess that’s my TotL for a good while. I might grab the APP2 when I get to North America next year. At current prices here (or EU) they are a no no.
> Wonder if Sony will have an XM5 in the pipeline.


With the xm5 headphone have gotten better from the xm4 except for the pads, I can't wait for the wf xm5 improvements.


----------



## tiagopinto

erockg said:


> It's been a while, so I can't really say too much about sound.  I did like the FWD-02 better.  I returned the ZNE, but have the FWD here.  They don't have ANC, no volume controls and no wireless charging.  The ZNE has wireless charging.  I had bt issues with the ZNE but not the FWD.  I preferred the fit of the buds and the case of the FWD.  It has a strange cloth removable lid, but it's very thin and fits in your pocket great.  The buds are made by Zound Industries who also make the Marshall TWS buds.  Their tuning sounds great to me.  If you can get them cheap, not a bad deal at all.  I got mine for under 100 USD.



From memory, if you please, how do the adidas FWD and ZEN compare to the CA MT? Thx.


----------



## Not so fat head

Caipirina said:


> I actually did a 21K run with them today and after some initial struggle (unseal noise on each foot fall) once I somehow reached the perfect fit / seal, they became surprisingly low-thud (there’s actually an Amazon review describing pretty much the same. Lemme see if I can find again) Maybe my ears and or the silicone warmed up and bonded, guess milage greatly varies with fit. But I was very happy. No connection issues whatsoever. Brilliant & dynamic sound. Guess that’s my TotL for a good while. I might grab the APP2 when I get to North America next year. At current prices here (or EU) they are a no no.
> Wonder if Sony will have an XM5 in the pipeline.
> 
> 
> ...


You ran how far??
Wow!!  👍


----------



## SilverEars (Sep 30, 2022)

Just got the Bose QCEB2, and I like it.  Not the best in terms fidelity, but I don't expect it from BT earphones.  I don't know how they achieve it, but it has large sound stage.  I was so impressed with the original QCEB sound stage, and it seems like this one has more or less the same large sound stage. There's lots of bass, but I consider QCEB series bass to be the best of TWS bass.  Bass actually rumbles!

As for ANC.  Damn!  Much much better than Gaxy Buds Pro 2.  Probably best ANC next to Apple.  It might be the best ANC there is for TWS at the moment.  It's really quiet.  With the Samsung I can hear the high frequencies, but it's very minute high frequencies with this one.

It's not highly technical, but very fun sound.  The way the sound space imaged is very spacious (space sound 3D, not flat).  That's what's so impressive about Bose! Got damn sound stage!

I'm keeping these and Samsung is going back.


----------



## C_Lindbergh

Do the new Bose have any ambient mode and/or quick attention mode?


----------



## erockg

Caipirina said:


> but you DO hear the white noise? Maybe also not much bothered by it?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


If I really concentrate I can hear ANC white noise but nothing that is distracting to me.  I haven't had any issues with switching between my iPhone, Android phone, iPad and  Apple TV yet.  I haven't used them with my Mac.  I'll try that soon and report back.


----------



## erockg

tiagopinto said:


> From memory, if you please, how do the adidas FWD and ZEN compare to the CA MT? Thx.


Oh, I did love the sound on the CA MT very much, but they are plagued by bugs.  Bluetooth issues and more.  I'd personally stay away.  I had a few different pairs and wound up returning both before and after the major firmware updates.  That's just my experience.  Others may feel differently.  That said, depending on what you're looking for, you can also do better than the Adidas at that price.  As you know, soooooo many options out there.  What exactly are you looking for?


----------



## Caipirina

Not so fat head said:


> You ran how far??
> Wow!!  👍


 I do one of those at least once a week, was supposed to be 32K/20Mi though 
Hence most of my TWS use happens while running.


----------



## Caipirina

webvan said:


> Good news for the "thud" that works for you but what about the wind 'noise? Even when walking you can hear it so when running it's really bad. Did you find a setting that cancels it? There "running" mode is just ANC set to 50% AFAICT.


yeah, those different mode labels are only diff levels of ANC ... frankly I had no issue with wind noise .. yet .. maybe something else that only really bothers when paying too much attention ... or only when running at Kipchoge sub3 min/km pace


----------



## SilverEars (Sep 30, 2022)

There is something accurate the way Bose sounds, but I can't pinpoint what it is.  I know it's not high resolution, but it's sufficient solution, but there is such realism how the sound is presented I don't find with majority of TWS out there.  The way the sound decays is unlike other TWS.

I'm sure there are going to folks that thinks there's a lot of bass, but It's not the kind that masks sounds, but rumbles.  Also, it's not super punchy, but some softness to it's impact.  It's very engaging how it presents music. I think it's partially the sense space it presents the music.  I don't find this with majority of TWS.

The TWS has to make me want to listen to music, and this does that unlike other TWS.

I'm very curious how the FR looks.


----------



## Not so fat head

SilverEars said:


> There is something accurate the way Bose sounds, but I can't pinpoint what it is.  I know it's not high resolution, but it's sufficient solution, but there is such realism how the sound is presented I don't find with majority of TWS out there.  The way the sound decays is unlike other TWS.
> 
> I'm sure there are going to folks that thinks there's a lot of bass, but It's not the kind that masks sounds, but rumbles.  Also, it's not super punchy, but some softness to it's impact.  It's very engaging how it presents music. I think it's partially the sense space it presents the music.  I don't find this with majority of TWS.
> 
> ...


Probably many people don't know it, but BOSE is owned by MIT.,.   So, I would say they have deep Engineering talent at hand.
👍


----------



## SilverEars (Sep 30, 2022)

Not so fat head said:


> Probably many people don't know it, but BOSE is owned by MIT.,.   So, I would say they have deep Engineering talent at hand.
> 👍


They are known for a lot of marketing, and being very litigious.  They patented ideas and sued companies infringed their patents.  Perhaps engineering was used to bring ideas for patents.  Or those ideas were already  well known, but only they bothered to patent the ideas.

I know Bose do not have the best reputation among audiophiles, but I'm not the kind of person to refrain from trying and giving fair opinions based on brand alone.

But, if we talk strictly in terms of engineering, Bose lags behind other companies in terms of formfactor, etc... Their first one was very bulky and there were competing products already in the market that had better engineering solutions to miniaturize the components.

But, we are aware their products have high performance NC.  And they should given that they were early adopters.  They had the patents to sue Beats.

Since Beats is owned by Apple, Bose will not mess with Beats anymore because Apple has such a strong litigation team and money to fight forever.  When small companies get bought out by big ones like Samsung, they gain legal protection.


----------



## Not so fat head

Amar Bose came up with the idea of using common mode rejection and frequency cancellation for headphones.
What's with the hate?
Bose is a private company with sales topping $4.5 Billion a year....
Switch to decaf!!!


----------



## Not so fat head

And yes, guys that spend $3k on inner-connects, probably don't own Bose products..
Millions of others do and enjoy them.


----------



## ubs28

I personally like the Sennheiser Momentum True Wireless 3 for sports. The added fins makes sure it stays in my ears.

The Apple Airpods Pro 2 is quite nice too. But the fit is not as secure as the Sennheiser’s, so Sennheiser is still #1 for me.

Sony is crap though. These things fly out of my ears when I do some running.


----------



## C_Lindbergh

I asked about customisable controllers and the EQ-bug, but no luck in either question... :/

Otherwise I love the TWX9, but such a shame that only Technics and Sennheiser allows their customers to fully customize the controllers!


----------



## webvan (Oct 1, 2022)

ubs28 said:


> I personally like the Sennheiser Momentum True Wireless 3 for sports. The added fins makes sure it stays in my ears.
> 
> The Apple Airpods Pro 2 is quite nice too. But the fit is not as secure as the Sennheiser’s, so Sennheiser is still #1 for me.
> 
> Sony is crap though. These things fly out of my ears when I do some running.


Are you referring to the XM4s or XM3s ? I haven't tried the XM4s yet but the XM3s were absolutely terrible in terms of fit for me, even without moving, unless I rammed them deep in my ears and that gets old quickly !

Since I hate the "runners"s thud" I'd stuck to "open" designs like the Sabbat X12s or the Aftershockz for running but my X12s died recently so I tried running with the Bomaker SiFi II and while the thud is there it"s tolerable as it does cut out outside noise. How are the MTW3s in that respect ?

I've seen videos where it's claimed the Jaybirds Vistas and the Bose Sports Earbuds are the only "closed" TWS that don't have the "thud"...


----------



## subguy812

C_Lindbergh said:


> I asked about customisable controllers and the EQ-bug, but no luck in either question... :/
> 
> Otherwise I love the TWX9, but such a shame that only Technics and Sennheiser allows their customers to fully customize the controllers!


As they said, eq lowering the volume is not a bug. I have seen this on many other products, including DAPs, when eq is enabled the volume level is decreased, annoying though. I haven't found a need to eq them yet.


----------



## Caipirina

webvan said:


> Are you referring to the XM4s or XM3s ? I haven't tried the XM4s yet but the XM3s were absolutely terrible in terms of fit for me, even without moving, unless I rammed them deep in my ears and that gets old quickly !
> 
> Since I hate the "runners"s thud" I'd stuck to "open" designs like the Sabbat X12s or the Aftershockz for running but my X12s died recently so I tried running with the Bomaker SiFi II and while the thud is there it"s tolerable as it does cut out outside noise. How are the MTW3s in that respect ?
> 
> I've seen videos where it's claimed the Jaybirds Vistas and the Bose Sports Earbuds are the only "closed" TWS that don't have the "thud"...


haven't tried the Vistas .. but as for the Bose Sports, I tried those over the summer and was not happy with the fit, somehow the QC1 buds had the better fit, maybe had to do with weight distribution .. the sports buds, being a bit lighter, seemed to be wiggling / swimming in my ears while running ... as for the thud, I do not consider the QC1 nor the sports buds as 'closed' as the stay hear tips are not being fully jammed in ... hence IMHO both of them have very low thud ... 

Have you ever tried playing music that goes with your cadence? Does wonders for me .. helps with 180spm conditioning


----------



## webvan

Yeah, when the thud matches the cadence it's less annoying 
Like I wrote, I can deal with the "thud" of the SiFiII because they filter out a lot of the outside noise, including my shoes hitting the ground, you don't get that with the X12s. Even in the quiet environments where I usually run it's nice and of course it makes an even bigger difference if you're running in a noisy urban environment.
I think the SiFiII work well too because they fit really snuggly and as you wrote above, the "wiggling" (that can result in a "scratching" noise) is another annoyance on top of the thud. I get that with the QCII and the Earfun Air Pro 2 for instance.
I suppose I'll give Jaybird Vista 2 a try at some point


----------



## SilverEars (Oct 1, 2022)

I went for a test run with the QC2, and it stays in the ear without shifting.  GBP2 was actually shifting because it would make rubbing microphonics which was annoying.

But, it's not all nice and dandy.  It seems to be amplifying some kind of sound whenever I stomp or put my foot down while running.  Ok, I can understand perhaps 'thud' or whatnot, but amplify the sound?  Why?  It happens when I shut the door fast and hard and it amplifies the sound. 

I get the feeling the it might be the sound detector that lowers any strong ambient sounds.  It's causing undesirable things!  It has to be related to a mic, or a sensor.

Other than that, it's an engaging sound, but I find that it's not the best for Jazz genre.  The cymbals, etc.. isn't as  lively sounding as I like.  The clank.  But to be fair, you can have very  highly emphasized treble that clanks well with metal sounds, which is to be expected.  I wish there was more impact to such sounds in the highs, but without too  much treble emphasis that would cause sibilence.  I hate vocal that go tsss, chuuu, etc.. if you know what I mean.


----------



## webvan

What you're hearing (heard it too) is probably the fact that you can't turn off the mics for a true passive mode. It's hard to understand why Bose can't offer that basic option, when pretty much everyone else does.


----------



## subguy812 (Oct 1, 2022)

Correct me if I am wrong, but almost everyone places Bose at the top of the ANC food chain, but what else are they known for? I have been rather disappointed by sq in the over ears.


----------



## SilverEars

webvan said:


> What you're hearing (heard it too) is probably the fact that you can't turn off the mics for a true passive mode. It's hard to understand why Bose can't offer that basic option, when pretty much everyone else does.


It's doing opposite what it's suppose to do.  This isn't great engineering.


----------



## webvan

Yeah, apparently Sony have found a way on the XM4s to keep the mics on for ANC and cancel the inevitable wind noise amplification that comes with it (not tried it for myself but confirmed in posts here). It has to come at the expense of the efficiency of ANC though so the obvious and easy fix is to offer an "ANC Off" mode but incredibly Bose have failed to do that. It was bad enough not to offer that on the first generation QCI but on the second generation ? It would have to be a firmware fix too, not hardware so what's keeping them ?!


----------



## SilverEars (Oct 1, 2022)

So, something interesting I've not conciously or verbally recognized is the IEM/TWS's ability to express the environment effects that is in the original recording.   What I mean is the reverberations, the direction of the sound, and all that information picked up by the microphone being expressed.   This is what I mean by how the sound information is expressed spatially.  Some do it much better than others, and a lot of them sounding flat spatially, and thus not so interesting.

I feel that Bose's sound actually stands out when it comes to doing this.  Which is what I mean by realistic without the high resolution. Resolution doesn't mean realism, particularly in how the sound actually behaves. It sounds like the way the sound actually behave in space.  I'm not sure how this is achieved.  Is it by accident or intentional, or I just hear it this compared to another person.  No idea, but I can sense the environmental intentions or the environment when I listen with the Bose.  That's what so distinct about it's sound compared to other TWS.

In a way, this is what transparency is.  It has not occurred to me over the years, but realism depends on how the sound interacts with the environment.  That's what we hear in real life. Sound is bounced around with many reflections and enters our ears in various angles. Not in a vacuum.


----------



## DigDub (Oct 1, 2022)

Oppo enco X2.







The specs, features and functions are very similar to the Huawei freebuds pro 2. The Oppo sounds more natural in the mids while the Huawei sounds extremely fast and a tad unnatural. The Oppo app is also less of a hassle to install since Huawei is banned from Google. The stem of the Oppo is also slimmer than the Huawei, and the controls are easier to operate on the Oppo. A firmware update adds LDAC support and I have no issues using it with LDAC on my Samsung phone. The tips of the Oppo are more conical in shape and the largest size is quite small, so people who require larger tips may find that they do not stay well in ears.


----------



## james444

C_Lindbergh said:


> Otherwise I love the TWX9, but such a shame that only Technics and Sennheiser allows their customers to fully customize the controllers!



Oppo and QCY allow it too.


----------



## C_Lindbergh

james444 said:


> Oppo and QCY allow it too.


Oh great!

Im not a software developer, but if you can partially customize the controllers like you can on the TWX9 and others (like Sony) it shouldnt be too difficult to enable fully custom controllers... :/


----------



## Tommy C

C_Lindbergh said:


> Oh great!
> 
> Im not a software developer, but if you can partially customize the controllers like you can on the TWX9 and others (like Sony) it shouldnt be too difficult to enable fully custom controllers... :/


Not a software developer either but I know some tech from my line of work, unfortunately some features that make their way to the app are hardware dependant and some chipsets don’t have certain features enabled.


----------



## C_Lindbergh (Oct 1, 2022)

Tommy C said:


> Not a software developer either but I know some tech from my line of work, unfortunately some features that make their way to the app are hardware dependant and some chipsets don’t have certain features enabled.


But the AT TW9 should have the same if not a higher tier Qualcomm SoC as the MTW3, so really don't think it's hardware related in this case.


----------



## Not so fat head

Most of the silicon in these devices is the same, with some customer modifications, probably firmware.
The bigger companies can develop their own drivers/enclosures.
Apple W1/H1 chips might just be modified Qualcomm chips.
👍


----------



## SilverEars (Oct 1, 2022)

Just got the APP2 in and I like Jazz sound of it better than the Bose.  Bose definitely has better ANC, and probably is the TWS ANC performer.  APP2 is an improvement over the 1st gen sound stage and bass, but not really the tonality.  Greater bass with greater impact, and it's one of the better TWS bass like the Bose.  What I don't like is the mids, too warm.  It sounds like it's masking type of warmth. Causes a fuzziness in the imaging. Thick sounds. I'm a fan of more of a clear sound.  I do like the bass though.  The mids and highs feels uneven.  There seems to an emphasis in the highs and mids being too warm that causes masking.  Kinda bloomy sounds.  I really dislike thick and bloomy mids since it takes away the clarity.  Definitely sound better than the GBP2, but not the Bose.  I wish the APP2 was more clear sounding.


----------



## BigZ12

SilverEars said:


> Just got the APP2 in and I like Jazz sound of it better than the Bose.  Bose definitely has better ANC, and probably is the TWS ANC performer.  APP2 is an improvement over the 1st gen sound stage and bass, but not really the tonality.  Greater bass with greater impact, and it's one of the better TWS bass like the Bose.  What I don't like is the mids, too warm.  It sounds like it's masking type of warmth. Causes a fuzziness in the imaging. Thick sounds. I'm a fan of more of a clear sound.  I do like the bass though.  The mids and highs feels uneven.  There seems to an emphasis in the highs and mids being too warm that causes masking.  Kinda bloomy sounds.  I really dislike thick and bloomy mids since it takes away the clarity.  Definitely sound better than the GBP2, but not the Bose.  I wish the APP2 was more clear sounding.


Try this: (on your iPhone)

Go to Settings > Accessibility.
Scroll down and tap Audio/Visual.
Tap Headphone Accommodations and enable the toggle at the top of the screen.
Now, you can choose between three preset options that optimize the sound for Balanced Tone, Vocal Range, or Brightness.
(or try "Custom Audio Setup")


----------



## cr3ativ3

BigZ12 said:


> Try this: (on your iPhone)
> 
> Go to Settings > Accessibility.
> Scroll down and tap Audio/Visual.
> ...


But this only works for Apple Music right ?


----------



## BigZ12

cr3ativ3 said:


> But this only works for Apple Music right ?


No, this is settings for all the Airpods and Beats Fit Pro. Works with all apps and even phone calls etc..


----------



## Typo2 (Oct 2, 2022)

So for science I bought the Enco x2 and the freebuds pro 2. Wanted the Enco X2 to be good as I love the original Enco X (with EQ) and use an oppo phone so it integrates well. They are both good feature buds overall but the stock tuning of the freebuds pro 2 is so much better and more even/neutral than the Enco X2, I find the X2 extremely sibilant and splashy which really puts me off liking them oob, I prefer the originals all around. EQ saves them but that's a 3rd party app to save them. The default tuning of the freebuds 2 is just so good, then throw in ldac, decent multipoint support and a 10band EQ that saves to the buds....wish they were a little bit smaller and available in black. My current winners purely OOB sound wise. I hate that they are in white but I'll live with it for the sound/features. Got the audio technicas coming in a week or so so would be good to compare them.


----------



## DigDub

Typo2 said:


> So for science I bought the Enco x2 and the freebuds pro 2. Wanted the Enco X2 to be good as I love the original Enco X (with EQ) and use an oppo phone so it integrates well. They are both good feature buds overall but the stock tuning of the freebuds pro 2 is so much better and more even/neutral than the Enco X2, I find the X2 extremely sibilant and splashy which really puts me off liking them oob, I prefer the originals all around. EQ saves them but that's a 3rd party app to save them. The default tuning of the freebuds 2 is just so good, then throw in ldac, decent multipoint support and a 10band EQ that saves to the buds....wish they were a little bit smaller and available in black. My current winners purely OOB sound wise. I hate that they are in white but I'll live with it for the sound/features. Got the audio technicas coming in a week or so so would be good to compare them.


I have both too. I like the Oppo better on the enco x classic preset EQ, the mids sound more natural than the Huawei. I don't find the Oppo to be sibilant. The Oppo is my favorite for SQ now. The Huawei has better anc and transparency though, but I seldom use those features.


----------



## darveniza

Arrived early and on Sunday, got appreciate Amazon, starting to charge so I can test later


----------



## C_Lindbergh

darveniza said:


> Arrived early and on Sunday, got appreciate Amazon, starting to charge so I can test later



They are really premium! 

At first I found them quite uncomfortable since I was used to just showing TWS into my ears without much thoughts, but with these you gotta place them in the bottom of your ear.


----------



## darveniza

C_Lindbergh said:


> They are really premium!
> 
> At first I found them quite uncomfortable since I was used to just showing TWS into my ears without much thoughts, but with these you gotta place them in the bottom of your ear.


Interesting, will see how they fit


----------



## C_Lindbergh

Just beware of the LED...they are quite ridiculous lol. Wish you could lower the brightness in the app!

Linkbuds S with the TWX9


----------



## Sam L

Has anyone tried the UE Drops yet?


----------



## Luke Skywalker

Phaethon said:


> You’re in the walled garden of Apple, like me, right? How hampered are these buds on an iOS device?


I am also in the garden... Although I'm an IT guy, I find Android to be cumbersome at times. When I'm not working on Windows, I like things to be very simple like how iMessages integrates from iPhone to iPad.

My boy said that the new Airpods 2 are amazing. Thinking of getting a pair myself but I just bought Vision EXT and MEST Indigo haha


----------



## darveniza

Really like the tip options. It took a bit of time to find the right ones as to avoid the bass becoming explosive





APP

Nice App, Has main features I really need. Including equalizer. Out of the box I had to do an update.

Controls , I do like the button approach on the stem, easy to find and can do everything from there

Sound
Heavy BASS but was expecting this . The tips do influence, some of them can really seal which may be an issue for sensitivity

Do need to test further, including mic test


----------



## Luke Skywalker

clerkpalmer said:


> I needed some purple in my life to match my Fokus.


The Vision EXT are about as purple as you can get


----------



## Luke Skywalker

webvan said:


> QCII just came in and the ANC sounds like it could be the best I've ever "heard" ! It does even better than my current goto ANC earbuds, the EarFun Free Pro 2. QC15 are left behind too, impressive !
> Will try running with them tomorrow.


I bet they're pretty amazing. Any improvement over the originals is high praise indeed since those are one of my favorites in my collection.  I've had them for years without a single issue


----------



## tiagopinto

subguy812 said:


> IMO the TWX9 are top tier. There are many factors within the app which can alter the signature. It just takes patience and experimentation to find your sweet spot.  I have shut off EQ, I find I don't need it and it does cut the volume slightly. It is common for me to not use EQ, XM4's are the only bud I use eq on. Just to get it out of the way, this sounds signature checks so many of my boxes. I have not A/B'ed with the B&O EX, which would be the closest competition, in my TWS collection, sound wise to the TWX9.
> 
> Packaging and stock items are premium. The ear tip selection is top notch, I have only used the long L tips. All tips are silicon. The Free Byrd's and TWX9 have the best selection I have seen.
> 
> ...



Ah, you have both. How would you compare the TWX9 to the Free Byrds? Thx.


----------



## Typo2

DigDub said:


> I have both too. I like the Oppo better on the enco x classic preset EQ, the mids sound more natural than the Huawei. I don't find the Oppo to be sibilant. The Oppo is my favorite for SQ now. The Huawei has better anc and transparency though, but I seldom use those features.


Yeah different ears will hear different things but to me the sibilance was just too much for my ears. I'm still going back and forth between the two, I prefer the oppo overall as a package - I'm using wavelet to override the default eq which cleans it up nicely and gets rid of the sibilance I hear. It's just ashame you can't save a custom eq to it like you can with the freebuds. The Enco X2 is definitely the slicker of the two though in my book.

Where I live is quite RF intensive in the city, I found the freebuds pro 2 dropping out a lot, and the Enco X2 less. For some reason my original Enco X don't drop out nearly as much, I guess it's a codec/bitrate thing. Tried the freebuds 2 pro on SBC and was still getting quite a few dropouts... I guess you can't get it all, yet. My audio technicas arriving by Thursday, can't wait.


----------



## nekonhime

subguy812 said:


> IMO the TWX9 are top tier. There are many factors within the app which can alter the signature. It just takes patience and experimentation to find your sweet spot.  I have shut off EQ, I find I don't need it and it does cut the volume slightly. It is common for me to not use EQ, XM4's are the only bud I use eq on. Just to get it out of the way, this sounds signature checks so many of my boxes. I have not A/B'ed with the B&O EX, which would be the closest competition, in my TWS collection, sound wise to the TWX9.
> 
> Packaging and stock items are premium. The ear tip selection is top notch, I have only used the long L tips. All tips are silicon. The Free Byrd's and TWX9 have the best selection I have seen.
> 
> ...


So the twx9 is comparable with the ex in term of sound?


----------



## gabriely

Got a pair of Azla Crystal TWS tips for the B&O EX. 

First impressions - they're very 'sticky' compared to the stock tips, so they grip a lot better. So you'd probably be better off getting smaller tips here - I use the stock Ls, but with these I'm going to a M (the Ls I have no chance with). They might make the buds sound ever so slightly warmer...? but in reality it's such a small difference that it's damn near impossible to tell even trying my damnedest. Noise isolation is ever so slightly better than the stock tips, but again I'm splitting hairs here - neither passive isolation nor ANC will ever be the EX's strong suit.

That said I think the B&O EX works well with the stock tips - while they don't go very deep into the ear canal, and they are not grippy/'sticky' by any means, they just work - in my case I don't have any problems with getting a secure and superbly comfy fit.

If anyone knows what tips I could try that are not sticky/grippy I'd be keen to give them a go. Trying to look out for the Azla Max tips here but no luck so far...


----------



## tiagopinto

erockg said:


> Oh, I did love the sound on the CA MT very much, but they are plagued by bugs.  Bluetooth issues and more.  I'd personally stay away.  I had a few different pairs and wound up returning both before and after the major firmware updates.  That's just my experience.  Others may feel differently.  That said, depending on what you're looking for, you can also do better than the Adidas at that price.  As you know, soooooo many options out there.  What exactly are you looking for?



I do own the CA MT. I like the sound but I’m sick and tired of the bugs. I’ve just about had it with these, safe for the sound. If the phone rings and I take a call, (sometimes) I doesn’t get back to the music... nor can I can play it by hitting the touch pad... I hear the beep, then no music. I have to take my phone out and hit play. Then the right bud has been acting up as in it doesn’t charge in the case or connects and plays music while in the closed case. Siri seldom works. While on calls outside, I keep having to repeat myself because people don’t seem to hear me right (it’s better indoors). Sick of these and other bugs. So, for my mobile option, at this moment, I MUST upgrade.

Like I said, I don’t have any special interest in adidas other than sneakers. Since I’m upgrading my IEM game, and I have a connect at adidas, I might be able to get these REALLY cheap. Hence my questions on comparing the FWD with the ZNE and now the CA MT. Do the adidas have any bugs? Do they work well? Would they stay put bike riding?

If I don’t get the adidas, I will need another option for mobility. And, right now, it’s between the Free Byrds (230€), the MTW3 (249€), the ATH-TWX9 (around 250€, but only available in Japan) or the APP2 (299€). In increasing price order.

The adidas might be an and/or option depending on sound quality, if you get my meaning.


----------



## subguy812

tiagopinto said:


> Ah, you have both. How would you compare the TWX9 to the Free Byrds? Thx.


I no longer have the Free Byrd's and I can't do a comparison from memory and be accurate. Sorry!


----------



## subguy812

nekonhime said:


> So the twx9 is comparable with the ex in term of sound?


Different sound signatures but both top tier, IMO.


----------



## DigDub

Typo2 said:


> Yeah different ears will hear different things but to me the sibilance was just too much for my ears. I'm still going back and forth between the two, I prefer the oppo overall as a package - I'm using wavelet to override the default eq which cleans it up nicely and gets rid of the sibilance I hear. It's just ashame you can't save a custom eq to it like you can with the freebuds. The Enco X2 is definitely the slicker of the two though in my book.
> 
> Where I live is quite RF intensive in the city, I found the freebuds pro 2 dropping out a lot, and the Enco X2 less. For some reason my original Enco X don't drop out nearly as much, I guess it's a codec/bitrate thing. Tried the freebuds 2 pro on SBC and was still getting quite a few dropouts... I guess you can't get it all, yet. My audio technicas arriving by Thursday, can't wait.


Just curious, what phone are you using with the buds? On the Huawei freebuds pro 2, do you turn off ear detection? I turned mine off in the app, but it always turns the ear detection on by itself after putting it back in its case after some time, even though the app's switch indicated it's off. I have to turn on and off the switch to disable the ear detection every time after charging the buds.


----------



## Typo2

DigDub said:


> Just curious, what phone are you using with the buds? On the Huawei freebuds pro 2, do you turn off ear detection? I turned mine off in the app, but it always turns the ear detection on by itself after putting it back in its case after some time, even though the app's switch indicated it's off. I have to turn on and off the switch to disable the ear detection every time after charging the buds.


Find x5 pro - had to use Huawei AI life to get ldac working and play around with EQs etc. Smart wear detection? Seems to function properly for me, if I put then back in the case and take them out they don't auto play.

I checked and I was using the dynaudio "simple and clear" preset, the sibilance is mostly gone on the stock tuning...my bad, it's because on the original Enco X the simple and clear tuning was the best to my ears, not the case on the new one - the dynaudio real is the best I agree. Just wish oppo would add custom EQ like the Huawei buds and countless others offer. Easily my number 1 with a custom EQ I can save to the buds. I'll email customer support and complain that all their rivals have it, maybe they can add it in an update.


----------



## tiagopinto

subguy812 said:


> I no longer have the Free Byrd's and I can't do a comparison from memory and be accurate. Sorry!



Why did you get rid of the Free Byrds? Any issues or Bugs? Or did you get better ones? Which ones (not at EX price)?


----------



## Windmolinos

Hello guys.
I was extremely happy with my Vivo neo TWS, but the charger box got broken for the right one.
I'm not use to repeat brand when something like this happens to me, so I was looking for alternatives, but only open TWS.
As far a I discover, I only see the SoundPEATS Air3. Anyone can compare them against the NEOs?
Any alternative, other than the airpods?

Thanks!!!!!!!


----------



## subguy812

tiagopinto said:


> Why did you get rid of the Free Byrds? Any issues or Bugs? Or did you get better ones? Which ones (not at EX price)?


At the time I had all four of these. I knew I was keeping the EX as my sq champ. I was looking for a back-up pair.

I enjoyed the pixel buds pro, but the short nozzle is a no-go for me, so fit issues. The XM4 are the ANC champ out of these. The FreeByrd had the 2nd best sound quality out of the group, but I kept the XM4 for two reasons, 1) For ANC, 2) I paid 119.99 for a like-new refurb.

Since I already had a sq champ, I went with ANC.


----------



## erockg

Ah bummer:  https://appleinsider.com/articles/2...ransparency-to-old-airpods-pro?utm_medium=rss


----------



## erockg

Looks like B&O has a firmware update for the EX case now.  Here we gooooooo.


----------



## CocaCola15

BigZ12 said:


> Try this: (on your iPhone)
> 
> Go to Settings > Accessibility.
> Scroll down and tap Audio/Visual.
> ...


Excellent tip. Moved slider to moderate. Perfect.


----------



## Aevum

regarding sound quality, anyone tried the Final ZE3000 ?


----------



## TK33 (Oct 4, 2022)

Not sure if this was posted before but firmware update enabling multipoint is now available for the Sennheiser MTW3. Update took me 18 minutes but went smoothly.

Thanks to @mariowar for the heads up on the MTW3 thread.


----------



## erockg

TK33 said:


> Not sure if this was posted before but firmware update enabling multipoint is now available for the Sennheiser MTW3. Update took me 18 minutes but went smoothly.
> 
> Thanks to @mariowar for the heads up on the MTW3 thread.


I'm goin' in!


----------



## Typo2

The postman had a special delivery for me this morning. First impressions, very very good. Everything feels nice and premium, more so than I was expecting. ANC is very good from my limited testing, the sound is very neutral, maybe leaning a little towards the bright side, to my ears. The app has loads of customisations for different eq's, 5 band to tweak it. The earbuds are a lot smaller than I thought they would be, they fit very well. It's blowing a gale in London today so unfortunately the wind is ruining some of my testing.






Listening to Miles Davis in the park, these are quite special. Unusual to have such neutral bass tuning in a tws. I'll do more listening and report back, can already see the Enco X2 and freebuds pro 2 staying out on my desk for a while. These are definitely in the top tier for tws for me. Will report back after more listening over the next few days.


----------



## subguy812

erockg said:


> Looks like B&O has a firmware update for the EX case now.  Here we gooooooo.


Still waiting for a case update. Any gains?


----------



## Phaethon

Been comparing several for the last couple of weeks. 
Beoplay Ex - my second go round with these. Tried every tip in my arsenal and I can’t even get a fit that feels like they will stay in my ears, much less create an effective seal. Back they go again. 
Galaxy Buds Pro 2 - stellar sound. Comfortable fit. But without the iOS app it’s awkward to borrow a friend’s android phone to make changes and update. It’s too bad the two walled gardens have built moats. They’re heading back. 
Beyerdynamic Free Byrds - underwhelmed me in comparison to other options. Back they go!
Bose QC II - the real deal. Love the SQ. Easy to fit in ears and they seal themselves. They are well-tuned, ultra comfortable, easy as pie, and expensive. But I really haven’t experienced anything else quite like them. These are keepers. They sit next to my MTW 3s on my desk.


----------



## erockg

subguy812 said:


> Still waiting for a case update. Any gains?


Good question.  Nothing noticeable to me, but I haven't done any testing, just updated and carried on.


----------



## dleblanc343

Got to meet Crinacle in California while attending CanJam and had him try TWX9 as seen in photo.

He didn’t like them but only had 10 seconds at it in a noisy environment (food court), and then handed me his Buds Pro 2.

I like em too honestly! But the TWX9 straight up wipes the floor with the Samsung minus noise canceling + Frequency Response (IF you’re into Harman. I find Harman mids too hot, bass too strong).

Ironically, TWX9 is more along the lines of Harman 2013 Target, which is their best target imho.


----------



## Luke Skywalker

Just pre ordered the Focal Bathys. Not buds but they are truly wireless does that count?


----------



## C_Lindbergh (Oct 5, 2022)

dleblanc343 said:


> Got to meet Crinacle in California while attending CanJam and had him try TWX9 as seen in photo.
> 
> He didn’t like them but only had 10 seconds at it in a noisy environment (food court), and then handed me his Buds Pro 2.
> 
> ...



Just goes to show that one shouldn't base what you buy from just 1 person, I completely love all the Meze's ive tried and the TWX9 

But as always Samsungs TWS are an incredibile value position, you could already get the newest for around 150 EUR in my country from certain vendors that had a special offer.


----------



## cresny

Typo2 said:


> The postman had a special delivery for me this morning. First impressions, very very good. Everything feels nice and premium, more so than I was expecting. ANC is very good from my limited testing, the sound is very neutral, maybe leaning a little towards the bright side, to my ears. The app has loads of customisations for different eq's, 5 band to tweak it. The earbuds are a lot smaller than I thought they would be, they fit very well. It's blowing a gale in London today so unfortunately the wind is ruining some of my testing.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I'll also be putting these up against the Freebuds Pro 2 when I get them in, which should be just a few more days now. Word to the wise: stay away from "SF" shipping, whoever they are. I'm guessing that when I bought the ATs on Amazon Japan I was not paying attention to shipping, and there must have been a choice. If so, do yourself a favor and choose DHL.


----------



## nekonhime

Luke Skywalker said:


> Just pre ordered the Focal Bathys. Not buds but they are truly wireless does that count?


https://www.headphonesty.com/2022/10/review-focal-bathys/
I am not sure if they worth the price, but please give a detail review when you receive them.


----------



## Benedict Leung

dleblanc343 said:


> Got to meet Crinacle in California while attending CanJam and had him try TWX9 as seen in photo.
> 
> He didn’t like them but only had 10 seconds at it in a noisy environment (food court), and then handed me his Buds Pro 2.
> 
> ...





dleblanc343 said:


> Got to meet Crinacle in California while attending CanJam and had him try TWX9 as seen in photo.
> 
> He didn’t like them but only had 10 seconds at it in a noisy environment (food court), and then handed me his Buds Pro 2.
> 
> ...


I stopped giving too much credit to Crinacle a long time ago. It seems like his testing methodology and philosophy are really just veils to his very subjective listening experience. And based on his lists for IEMs and alike, it seems like he much prefers more modest sound signature with warm tone and below average technical capabilities. This is not to mention his review sample size and update speed are just lackluster.


----------



## webvan

Yes, the QCII sound great, it's just too bad they have zero handling of wind noise or even a passive mode. Even when you're walking it's distracting! So they're basically good only for static use.
According to a post in another forum, the way the XM4 deal with wind noise by keeping ANC on is by turning off the outside mics so you're left with "feedback" ANC. Why not, it's probably going to be an improvement over passive only. Since Bose couldn't be bothered to offer a passive mode there's probably no chance that will be coming the way of QCI/II owners.


----------



## subguy812

dleblanc343 said:


> Got to meet Crinacle in California while attending CanJam and had him try TWX9 as seen in photo.
> 
> He didn’t like them but only had 10 seconds at it in a noisy environment (food court), and then handed me his Buds Pro 2.
> 
> ...



Of course... Consider the source


----------



## Not so fat head

dleblanc343 said:


> Got to meet Crinacle in California while attending CanJam and had him try TWX9 as seen in photo.
> 
> He didn’t like them but only had 10 seconds at it in a noisy environment (food court), and then handed me his Buds Pro 2.
> 
> ...


I enjoy Crinacle, and find his stuff entertaining, but really doubt his ear holes match mine..  
He says he can dismiss a pair within seconds;  that sounds silly to me...
Also, starting to put his name/endorsement on products will look  suspect for any reviewer..


----------



## Pansbjorne

My TWX9's finally arrived today. Think it's safe to say these are going to be my daily drivers. They definitely crush the buds2 pro when it comes to sound. They're pretty close to the Final EVA's (subjective quality wise, though very different sound signatures), but having ANC + better controls is a no brainer.


----------



## subguy812

IMO the TWX9 is the real deal..the EX has a different signature, but both exude Top Tier


----------



## chinmie

Not so fat head said:


> He says he can dismiss a pair within seconds;  that sounds silly to me...



i kinda understand why though.. when trying so many earphones, especially at one time (like for example in an audio meet), i also can/tend to rate or give impression within seconds/ under a minute, unless it turns out to be a good sounding set, then i listen to it for more. 
also i see that similar behavior on friends who are audio reviewers, or just have a large collection of earphones


----------



## MaxwellDemon

After hearing the hype of the TWX9, I threw in my order for it... I also have the Cyberblade coming in, but hey, more toys!


----------



## Caipirina

webvan said:


> Yes, the QCII sound great, it's just too bad they have zero handling of wind noise or even a passive mode. Even when you're walking it's distracting! So they're basically good only for static use.
> According to a post in another forum, the way the XM4 deal with wind noise by keeping ANC on is by turning off the outside mics so you're left with "feedback" ANC. Why not, it's probably going to be an improvement over passive only. Since Bose couldn't be bothered to offer a passive mode there's probably no chance that will be coming the way of QCI/II owners.


After some long runs and walks I can not share your wind noise experience. I usually have the ANC on and I get moderate / normal wind noise, on par with what I would get with no buds at all. But nothing over the top. Varying milage I guess.


----------



## Caipirina

Here is something a bit different and possibly Japan only, since I can only find reviews in Japanese … the Ambie TWS




Seems ambie has done this form factor before in wired. It plays to the Aeropex / Linkbuds Audience, as they are just clip ons. I have not tried them yet, possibly will when I get the chance. Anyone here tried? 
I find the price of 16K ¥ a bit lofty, and the concept is not really that new / unique, early in 2020 I got those from AE:


Basically the same idea (and no, they are NOT bone conducting)


----------



## dweaver

New toy finally arrived. Almost tempted to just return... Feel crazy buying yet another TWS at full retail no less! (did get free wireless charger though).

Had a rough couple days though so maybe a new toy will take my mind off of things. I also think I can return even if I open them. Will confirm that first though...

I am a bit of a sucker for the AKG house sound so will likely enjoy these alot.


----------



## leftside (Oct 6, 2022)

nekonhime said:


> https://www.headphonesty.com/2022/10/review-focal-bathys/
> I am not sure if they worth the price, but please give a detail review when you receive them.


Coming from Focal, I expected them to be far more expensive. Also looking forward to the review and how they compare to the AirPod Max which I have to admit I'm really enjoying when wireless and ANC is required. Still prefer my Stellia tho if I'm sitting out in the yard in one place, not moving around and it's quiet.


----------



## Not so fat head

leftside said:


> Coming from Focal, I expected them to be far more expensive. Also looking forward to the review and how they compare to the iPod Max which I have to admit I'm really enjoying when wireless and ANC is required. Still prefer my Stellia tho if I'm sitting out in the yard in one place, not moving around and it's quiet.


Amazing how so many folks said they wouldn't leave the house with AKG N90Q's (I could agree with the gold).
However the black looked good, and a lot better than these, less splashy.
Go figure...


----------



## Not so fat head

This fir Focal, not the PX8's, which are classy and look amazing...
Love my PX7's and Elegia's...


----------



## dweaver

OK, so am testing the GBP2 Pro and so far like their sound. It's nice and detailed without being fatiguing. It's a very comfortable TWS on par with Sony Linkbuds S way nicer than the older model.

Listening to some Jazz and love the drum kits details.

Just switched to a sub-bass heavy song and it delivers great sub-bass! Great for Hans Zimmer!

Honeymoon phase is full force!!!!

As an FYI I am a Samsung S20 user so by default am using the scalable codec  at 24 bits. For a Samsung owner these are seemless on a newer phone.

Will do some comparison to LDAC at some point but the fact didn't have to do anything to get the best sound is a big bonus to me.


----------



## dweaver

Sub-bass is so good I listened to the whole Interstellar album... Best sub-bass I have heard in a TWS to date aside from TWS adapter and Fiio FH5.


----------



## maceto

leftside said:


> Coming from Focal, I expected them to be far more expensive. Also looking forward to the review and how they compare to the iPod Max which I have to admit I'm really enjoying when wireless and ANC is required. Still prefer my Stellia tho if I'm sitting out in the yard in one place, not moving around and it's quiet.


I just played around with the spatical audio on the max and while they make my ears tired (clamping and more) they do sound great when you move your head around and the sound stays put so you get a sensation of room feeling/3d sound. Focal’s needs to be very very comfortable and have great sound for me to swap.


----------



## dweaver

I have not been able to test these in Transit or walking in the wind etc. So no idea of how they will work in that regard, also no idea on battery life yet.

But from a purely musical perspective these are simply amazing. I am using them with no EQ and don't feel they need it at all. The default signature is divine. The bass can go deep as I want and the mid-bass does not mess with the midrange or mask that sub-bass. The upper mids and treble is perfect and in balance to my ears. No shoutiness that I can tell so far.

Now bear in mind I like the AKG sound and these have a lot of that signature minus being fatiguing.

I was thinking I might have made a mistake and should have waited to try maybe the new Soundcore Liberty 4 but this sound quality is so good I don't care. Yes that would have been cheaper but technically they both use dual dynamic drivers and I prefer non stem and I really am tired of all the hassle associated with LDAC.


----------



## Toom

dweaver said:


> I have not been able to test these in Transit or walking in the wind etc. So no idea of how they will work in that regard, also no idea on battery life yet.
> 
> But from a purely musical perspective these are simply amazing. I am using them with no EQ and don't feel they need it at all. The default signature is divine. The bass can go deep as I want and the mid-bass does not mess with the midrange or mask that sub-bass. The upper mids and treble is perfect and in balance to my ears. No shoutiness that I can tell so far.
> 
> ...


Amen, I just got them and they a huge step up from the first iteration of the Buds Pro.  Sound sooo much better.

Have you tried the 360 audio with the head tracking turned on? Insane!


----------



## maceto

Toom said:


> Amen, I just got them and they a huge step up from the first iteration of the Buds Pro.  Sound sooo much better.
> 
> Have you tried the 360 audio with the head tracking turned on? Insane!


I am constantly moving my head lol now - once I realized that this was a thing


----------



## Asoares99

Hello, I have received my ATH Twx9 some days ago but I'm feeling very frustrated. Sound is amazing but everytime I use them the next time I take them out of the case the app does not recognize and I need to unpair and pair again the headphones, sometimes more than once to have them working. Has anyone had such issue with them as it makes it extremely annoying. Thanks


----------



## clerkpalmer

Looks like the ATH Twx9 are running about $220 USD from Amazon japan.  Are they worth it?  Would the sound quality bump from the QCII be worth it?  I don't need another set of TWS but I may _need _these.  If the sound is as high end as reported, seem like steal compared to the EX for twice the price.


----------



## C_Lindbergh

Asoares99 said:


> Hello, I have received my ATH Twx9 some days ago but I'm feeling very frustrated. Sound is amazing but everytime I use them the next time I take them out of the case the app does not recognize and I need to unpair and pair again the headphones, sometimes more than once to have them working. Has anyone had such issue with them as it makes it extremely annoying. Thanks


I have a similar problem, at times I gotts manually connect them... Also at some rare occasions the controllers stopped working. 

Hope for a new software update soon...


----------



## dweaver

I switched the Samsung tips to the Sony Hybrid and they work like a charm... They add a level of isolation over the Samsung tips but warm the sound just a smidge. I like the change but will do some A/B testing on a couple tracks later and report back on the changes. Just a smidge more comfortable for me as I always find the Sony tips more comfy.

Default tips also are good but just felt a touch loose in my ear. So psychologically I find the Sony better as I am not worried about them slipping.

The ANC is just behind the Linkbuds S but very close to the same. Ambient is not nearly as good as the Linkbuds S.

Sonically these have much more sub-bass than the Linkbuds S, less lush mids, and more sparkle in the treble with alot better detail and better sound stage.

I enjoy the Linkbuds S alot but sonically the GB2 Pro is pretty much as good as I have heard. But if you don't care about bigger sub bass and enjoy the lush sound of Sony you might like the Linkbuds S more.

For me, I really have missed having good sub-bass in a TWS so these are keepers...


----------



## erockg

clerkpalmer said:


> Looks like the ATH Twx9 are running about $220 USD from Amazon japan.  Are they worth it?  Would the sound quality bump from the QCII be worth it?  I don't need another set of TWS but I may _need _these.  If the sound is as high end as reported, seem like steal compared to the EX for twice the price.


I have a pair arriving early next week.  Fingers crossed.  I don't need them.  Sigh...  and listening to my EX right now!


----------



## dweaver

Short test, switched back to the Samsung tips and they add more jam for guitars, cymbals, etc.

But if you find these a bit to hot in those areas, the Sony tips help tame them down. Will try some Spinfit tips when I get home.

But the Samsung tips in this model actually work well as compared to the last version where they were  just barely serviceable.


----------



## clerkpalmer

erockg said:


> I have a pair arriving early next week.  Fingers crossed.  I don't need them.  Sigh...  and listening to my EX right now!


Thanks. I’ll await your feedback I think. Need to be a material step up in sq to take me from my Bose these days.


----------



## SilverEars

dleblanc343 said:


> Got to meet Crinacle in California while attending CanJam and had him try TWX9 as seen in photo.
> 
> He didn’t like them but only had 10 seconds at it in a noisy environment (food court), and then handed me his Buds Pro 2.
> 
> ...


Intriguing statement, the part about "wipes the floor with the Samsung."  That's a very bold statement.  Where is the TWX9 measurement?


----------



## dweaver

SilverEars said:


> Intriguing statement, the part about "wipes the floor with the Samsung."  That's a very bold statement.  Where is the TWX9 measurement?


I suspect this is a matter of taste .

I am super happy with the GB2 Pro but I LIKE that signature . I am not much of an AT fan anymore. Just not a fan of their house sound. So might have the exact opposite experience of @dleblanc343. 

I know the GB2Pro won't be for everyone but no TWS really is.

I may be enjoying these more because of the fact I am truly entrenched in the Samsung garden so get the full 24bit codec experience.


----------



## cresny

clerkpalmer said:


> Looks like the ATH Twx9 are running about $220 USD from Amazon japan.  Are they worth it?  Would the sound quality bump from the QCII be worth it?  I don't need another set of TWS but I may _need _these.  If the sound is as high end as reported, seem like steal compared to the EX for twice the price.



They are really, really good sounding. From all I've heard before, going from Sony XM3 -> Devialet Gemini -> Technics az60 (briefly) -> Huawei Freebuds Pro 2, the twx9 has the best, most full and natural presentation. Instruments sound great, really good mix, voices convey a lot of emotion. But, though I haven't used them very much around the city, their ANC and "hear through" seems so far "interesting" at best, and they are crap with wind, which is a bummer for me because I'm often on a bike. But in stationary environments, even a plane, I will be using these. Oh yeah, I forgot about the AKG, which I got while using the Gemini mostly. At the time I was impressed by how much more natural the AKGs sounded. I guess I would say that for me the ATH-TWX9 is like the best of the AKGs and Devialet Gemini combined. Sorry I can't compare with the EX, but from what's been said here they are of similar quality, and yeah, for $225 shipped I'm more than happy with these,


----------



## Not so fat head

Ha!!!  Beautiful..
Crinacle hates them, and you say they wipe the floor with his coveted Samsung's...
Doesn't get any better ha  that..  😃


----------



## Pansbjorne

clerkpalmer said:


> Looks like the ATH Twx9 are running about $220 USD from Amazon japan.  Are they worth it?  Would the sound quality bump from the QCII be worth it?  I don't need another set of TWS but I may _need _these.  If the sound is as high end as reported, seem like steal compared to the EX for twice the price.



I'm figuring they hit 300 when they come stateside. Having to wait a few weeks is well worth it to grab em now imo


----------



## subguy812 (Oct 8, 2022)

Pansbjorne said:


> I'm figuring they hit 300 when they come stateside. Having to wait a few weeks is well worth it to grab em now imo


I would agree and happily pay $300. One thing I do not think I have mentioned about the TWX9 is the fact that the staging is really good for a TWS. It is really difficult for me to say "better" than EX, it wouldn't matter anyway because that is so subjective.

In response to some of the pairing or connectivity issues I am seeing here, I will say that at first, I had a couple of issues but after the first couple of days and becoming familiar with them I have zero issues 95% of the time, minus an occasional one side hitch. Each bud plays a chime as you put it in your ear and then one side says Bluetooth connected.

One other thing I will mention is take your time with the settings, to adjust sensitivity of the controls. Also, keep in mind that there most definitely is an impact to sound with ANC. I have chosen the optimized ANC setting. Folks that prefer a brighter signature may want to look at the treble setting in EQ.

I am connecting with a Samsung S22 Ultra and will be able to test with a Pixel 7 Pro next week as well.


----------



## Juturna

Did anyone else see the annoying articles on some website about the Bose QCII having "too good" ANC and the person almost got hit by a bus or some crap like that? To also follow that up with a second article/opinion about that there should be some sort of regulation on how effective ANC should be able to be because it's a "risk" otherwise? I'm obviously paraphrasing, I don't remember the exact wording but that's what I got from it, that the ANC was dangerously good.

Thought it was hilarious and infuriating... Like no, just because _you _lack the awareness and attention span to not run out into the street because you can't hear the traffic you shouldn't put that on the earbud manufacturers and limit the development of new improved technology with crappy regulations. 
Honestly if earbuds was 100% noise cancelling that should be fine as well and up to the user to decide if they can handle it, even if I can see some risks with it. 
But It's not like deaf people get hit by cars every day (I mean it happens, but it also happens to people with perfect hearing) because they can't hear anything, because they know that they have to be attentive when they're crossing the street just because they can't hear the traffic and has to rely on sight alone, that's kinda what you need to do when wearing ANC earbuds as well. 

I would say that the only time/people that shouldn't wear ANC earbuds is if you have severely impaired vision/if you're blind, because that would obviously be the dumbest thing ever to do, but I also doubt many blind people would wear ANC earbuds when walking outside.


----------



## subguy812

Juturna said:


> Did anyone else see the annoying articles on some website about the Bose QCII having "too good" ANC and the person almost got hit by a bus or some crap like that? To also follow that up with a second article/opinion about that there should be some sort of regulation on how effective ANC should be able to be because it's a "risk" otherwise? I'm obviously paraphrasing, I don't remember the exact wording but that's what I got from it, that the ANC was dangerously good.
> 
> Thought it was hilarious and infuriating... Like no, just because _you _lack the awareness and attention span to not run out into the street because you can't hear the traffic you shouldn't put that on the earbud manufacturers and limit the development of new improved technology with crappy regulations.
> Honestly if earbuds was 100% noise cancelling that should be fine as well and up to the user to decide if they can handle it, even if I can see some risks with it.
> ...


Because sooooooooo many folks can't take responsibility for themselves and want government to regulate their every action, us folks that choose to self-regulate end up suffering.


----------



## dleblanc343

dweaver said:


> I suspect this is a matter of taste .
> 
> I am super happy with the GB2 Pro but I LIKE that signature . I am not much of an AT fan anymore. Just not a fan of their house sound. So might have the exact opposite experience of @dleblanc343.
> 
> ...


The TWX9 sounds nothing like the A-T sound, ironically.

Actually, rather than being upper mid forward, they’re actually a bit more on the polite smooth side.

They also have impact! Usually A-T has a lot of subbass roll off to increase the effect of the soundstage size. TWX9 remains very spatial despite great bass (probably DSP).

So far, TWX9 is the most “holographic” true wireless I’ve heard. Actually, that’s one of my main gripes with the 2018 Harman curve is that it brings the upper mids into focus and makes it more in your face and dynamic. This gives a very focused center stage but mediocre soundstage size. Harman 2013 was a much better benchmark imho, at least for iem’s/ headphones.

My 2 cents, but yeah buds pro 2 are nice! Love the rubber finish on it


----------



## subguy812

dleblanc343 said:


> The TWX9 sounds nothing like the A-T sound, ironically.
> 
> Actually, rather than being upper mid forward, they’re actually a bit more on the polite smooth side.
> 
> ...


I concur with holographic. I was listening this morning to a track that had so much depth and width, I then A/B the EX and realized it also is. I love both of these TWS.


----------



## Hearforthemusic

Twx9 owners, could I ask please whether you think they're a decent pair for the gym? 
Currently using xm4 tws on iPhone and looking for a new pair for the gym , probs between twx9, qc2s and app2. Decent connectivity, great ANC and great sound is what I'm looking for.


----------



## Juturna

subguy812 said:


> Because sooooooooo many folks can't take responsibility for themselves and want government to regulate their every action, us folks that choose to self-regulate end up suffering.


I mean look, I'm not a libertarian. I think government oversight can be a good thing in many instances. This is however not one of them, its just ridiculous.


----------



## cresny (Oct 8, 2022)

Hearforthemusic said:


> Twx9 owners, could I ask please whether you think they're a decent pair for the gym?
> Currently using xm4 tws on iPhone and looking for a new pair for the gym , probs between twx9, qc2s and app2. Decent connectivity, great ANC and great sound is what I'm looking for.


They will work but definitely would not be my first choice for the gym or anything on the go, especially given that you want something better than the XM4 for that purpose.

If I had an iPhone I'd get the app2. On Android. I really like the Huawei free buds pro 2 for on the go, especially because they are great on the bike with wind noise.


----------



## clerkpalmer

leftside said:


> Coming from Focal, I expected them to be far more expensive. Also looking forward to the review and how they compare to the AirPod Max which I have to admit I'm really enjoying when wireless and ANC is required. Still prefer my Stellia tho if I'm sitting out in the yard in one place, not moving around and it's quiet.


These are really tempting. I wonder how they might compare with the Ananda BT which are superb (yes open backed). $799 is a bit rough but I imagine they will start showing up in the classifieds quickly. Given I could spend $800 on 2 or 3 tws over the course of 6 months, might be worth a try.


----------



## clerkpalmer

cresny said:


> They will work but definitely would not be my first choice for the gym or anything on the go, especially given that you want something better than the XM4 for that purpose.
> 
> If I had an iPhone I'd get the app2. On Android. I really like the Huawei free buds pro 2 for on the go, especially because they are great on the bike with wind noise.


Do they slip out easily? That would probably be a deal breaker. I don’t need to go for a run but even the app2 slip out on me with limited motion.


----------



## SilverEars

Juturna said:


> Did anyone else see the annoying articles on some website about the Bose QCII having "too good" ANC and the person almost got hit by a bus or some crap like that? To also follow that up with a second article/opinion about that there should be some sort of regulation on how effective ANC should be able to be because it's a "risk" otherwise? I'm obviously paraphrasing, I don't remember the exact wording but that's what I got from it, that the ANC was dangerously good.
> 
> Thought it was hilarious and infuriating... Like no, just because _you _lack the awareness and attention span to not run out into the street because you can't hear the traffic you shouldn't put that on the earbud manufacturers and limit the development of new improved technology with crappy regulations.
> Honestly if earbuds was 100% noise cancelling that should be fine as well and up to the user to decide if they can handle it, even if I can see some risks with it.
> ...


I wouldn't say just blind or impaired vision, but anybody that is situated in an area where there is regular traffic of vehicles, etc.. and you cross the streets or walk on the street often that that the likelihood of getting hit by a car is fairly high.  I personally wouldn't trust myself in those environments or take the risk and be permanently disabled or worse.  It's not worth the risk no matter how confident I am.  

But yeah, it shows that QCII is doing what intended.  And  hope they are working on a solution for situations like I described.


----------



## Asoares99

Hearforthemusic said:


> Twx9 owners, could I ask please whether you think they're a decent pair for the gym?
> Currently using xm4 tws on iPhone and looking for a new pair for the gym , probs between twx9, qc2s and app2. Decent connectivity, great ANC and great sound is what I'm looking for.





clerkpalmer said:


> Do they slip out easily? That would probably be a deal breaker. I don’t need to go for a run but even the app2 slip out on me with limited motion.


For me they are the ones that fit me better out of the box, no need to adjust, they just stay in the ears. I have several and none that are so good in terms of fit and being safe.


----------



## nekonhime

Juturna said:


> Did anyone else see the annoying articles on some website about the Bose QCII having "too good" ANC and the person almost got hit by a bus or some crap like that? To also follow that up with a second article/opinion about that there should be some sort of regulation on how effective ANC should be able to be because it's a "risk" otherwise? I'm obviously paraphrasing, I don't remember the exact wording but that's what I got from it, that the ANC was dangerously good.
> 
> Thought it was hilarious and infuriating... Like no, just because _you _lack the awareness and attention span to not run out into the street because you can't hear the traffic you shouldn't put that on the earbud manufacturers and limit the development of new improved technology with crappy regulations.
> Honestly if earbuds was 100% noise cancelling that should be fine as well and up to the user to decide if they can handle it, even if I can see some risks with it.
> ...


I almost hit by the cars many times even without headphone ---> I have worldly ANC inside my ears lol 
Joke aside, people just being people- just btch about everything in existence and refuse the responsibilities


----------



## subguy812

nekonhime said:


> I almost hit by the cars many times even without headphone ---> I have worldly ANC inside my ears lol
> Joke aside, people just being people- just btch about everything in existence and refuse the responsibilities


Amen... I don't need anyone to protect me from myself.


----------



## dweaver

One of the factors that makes me like the GB2Pro is how good it sounds at low volumes. Not being a high volume listener I am not a good judge for sound at higher volumes. I often listen to music at 1/4 or 1/3 volume with 1/2 starting to be my idea of loud.

At those lower volumes I can feel the sub-bass in Hans Zimmer tracks and feel immersed by the music with wonderful detail throughout the audio spectrum.

Rock and Jazz also have lots of detail from vocals, drum kits, and guitars. Every thing just sounds and feels vivid and clear.


----------



## C_Lindbergh

There's still no quick attention mode for the GB2 Pro right? :/


----------



## dweaver (Oct 8, 2022)

Where you can hold you you hand on one of the buds to suddenly hear through ambient mode? If so no, but you can just start talking and then it will lower the music volume and turn on ambient.

But it is no where near as good as the Sony Linkbuds Pro.


----------



## C_Lindbergh

dweaver said:


> Where you can hold you you hand on one of the buds to suddenly hear through ambient mode? If so no, but you can just start talking and then it will lower the music volume and turn on ambient.
> 
> But it is no where near as good as the Sony Linkbuds Pro.


Yea, or any quick way to pause music and enable ambient mode...

Such a shame that Sammy still dont have it :7


----------



## dweaver (Oct 8, 2022)

The GB2Pro definitely lacks some of the quality of life features that Sony has done. If I could transplant this sound into the Linkbuds S I would be a very happy camper.

So interesting, I set one bud to turn ANC on off and the other to turn ambient on off. I have to use the long press for these but that better as now I can turn either mode on or off so can do ANC/Ambient/Off all from the buds 

One thing Samsung has also done is improved the edge tap system in the Lab area. With that turned on I can tap my ear lobe on left or right to turn up or down the volume. It actually works pretty well! So now I can control all aspects of my experience from the buds themselves.

I wish they would stop just tweaking to maintain status quo with Sony though and just knock it out of the park for features and sound.


----------



## voicemaster (Oct 8, 2022)

jant71 said:


> You forgot buds2 Pro SQ.


After minor tweaking, the buds2 pro tied with A40. I am using normal eq on the buds and boosted 9.6k by +4db on wavelet and that makes the treble opened up without any harshness. The sound definitely has opened up more even without minor EQ on the treble because when I just received it and tried it, the sound is very mute, closed in and muddy, but either the driver has burned in or my brain does, it is definitely sound more open. For the A40, I haven't got the right EQ so far for the mid, as I feel it a little bit recessed or not airy enough compare to buds2 pro.


----------



## dweaver

voicemaster said:


> After minor tweaking, the buds2 pro tied with A40. I am using normal eq on the buds and boosted 9.6k by +4db on wavelet and that makes the treble opened up without any harshness. The sound definitely has opened up more even without minor EQ on the treble because when I just received it and tried it, the sound is very mute, closed in and muddy, but either the driver has burned in or my brain does, it is definitely sound more open. For the A40, I haven't got the right EQ so far for the mid, as I feel it a little bit recessed or not airy enough compare to buds2 pro.


I have both as well. I like the GB2Pro more sonically speaking. But the A40 does have a nice sound. I find it a bit thinner sounding with less sub-bass and also find it a bit recessed in the mids even after tweaking in the app. But it definitely has better battery life.


----------



## howdy (Oct 9, 2022)

Picked up the QCII on Friday at BB and when I was trying them out in the parking lot it kept losing connection then lost it and was never able to pair them again. Geek squad tried to get them to work to no avail. I got another pair and they have been flawless so far. The noise cancelling is better than XM4 (which I still own) and the comfort is amazing, I cant even tell they are in my ears and so small! I for think the sound is pretty good but prefer the sound of my XM4. these do sound amazing at really low volumes and with the great NC you dont need to have the volume really loud. I do HOPE that they come out with the update  so that the buds can be used independently . Overall Im fairly happy with these, still dont think they are worth 300 though!


----------



## dweaver (Oct 9, 2022)

Been flipping  through some different tips just to see what happens on GB2Pro.

Sony Hybrid tips increase the bass and decrease the upper mids and treble. They take away to much of the upper register for me but if someone is struggling with this area being to bright these might help make the TWS more bearable. 

Spinfits CP360 tips increase the bass and add to passive isolation without affecting the upper mids and treble. The bass increase is nice for some music but can make it a bit to much for my tastes. The tip is as comfortable as the hybrids or original tips. This will be a great option for anyone who wants more isolation and more bass response.

I have to say Samsung's original tips seem to be the best for me. They don't isolate quite as good as the other two brands but they offer the best balanced sound to me. If you really happy with the sound out of the box the Samsung tips are all you need.

The Samsungs need just a bit for fiddling to get a snug fit that feels secure compared to the other two but once seated well feel as secure.


----------



## cresny

A couple mentions here described the ath-twx9 sound as holographic, and after listening a lot over the weekend I do concur. I made a comparison before with the Devialet Gemini which I also thought had holographic dimensionality, but the imagery on those pales in comparison. In particular I'm noticing the ATs can really handle highly multilayered mixes in ways for me that prior TWS could not. Stuff like St.Vincent, etc. 

Last night I listened to Elliott Smith's final, posthumously released album, "From a Basement on a Hill". On it he played all the instruments and mixed all the tracks himself, and he uses the drum tracks to drive everything home like a baseball bat. It's a hard album thematically, but on most TWS it's so distorted, almost unlistenable. On the ATs it's a revelation, so if you're a fan it may be worth the price of admission for that alone.

It's also worth mentioning the ATs and Devialet are both single dynamic drivers. I've only experienced a few multi driver TWS but, if you consider how complex it must be to get it right with both DSP _ and_ a crossover, especially getting the microdynamics of an IEM, well, I am not an acoustic engineer, but I may have come to the conclusion that more is not necessary better. If anyone with a higher technical pedigree wants to chime in, I'm all ears


----------



## dweaver

I have a couple of hybrid drivers TWS and 2 dual dynamic driver TWS (GbudPro and GBud2Pro), the dual dynamics sound better than the hybrids. I also have several single dynamic. I agree that less might be more in these devices due to how much has to be crammed into them. It's interesting that the new Soundcore Liberty 4 is a dual dynamic that several reviewers say they like more the Liberty 3 Pro.

I like hybrids but the good ones have a lot of space to lay the drivers out and separate themselves. TWSdoes not lend itself well to that type of design. Consequently they just generally cram them in sequence with the BA right at the nozzle which doesn't allow for any finesse and space to breath.


----------



## erockg (Oct 10, 2022)

These just got here.  I have to admit, they're the best sounding AT TWS I've had yet.  Tried a bunch.  Immediately notice the wide soundstage.  Need to play with the EQ or not.  Fit is perfect for me.  Tons of tips in the box.  Case is odd shaped but not awful -- like how it's clam shaped and flips up to open.

I'll report back after I've had some time with them.


----------



## jant71 (Oct 10, 2022)

More AT...
CKS30TW. Newer baby brother to the CKS50TW but looks like a Jabra a bit...





They took the CKS50 driver and reworked for better air flow and a better more stable fit with the new shape. Of course we don't want to outclass the big brother so we have only SBC/AAC and no ANC but it does have things like sidetone and MP and ambient mode etc. Do get more presets in the app including two levels or types of bass boost. At also still working on the size reduction so it is not a beast like it's big brother...




AT with the first "cartilage conduction" model. Nope, not bone conduction but cartilage conduction. https://www-phileweb-com.translate....html?_x_tr_sl=auto&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en-US



A key difference between BC and CC is supposedly "since stereo sound is fused in the skull with bone conduction, it is difficult for the sound information entering the left and right inner ears to have a left-right difference. In cartilage conduction, the sound reaches the left and right inner ears separately, so it is possible to obtain the same stereo sensation as the sound of the air conduction route."

Also a kinda odd Victor TWS...



A TWS earphone as well but touted as a hearing assistant...
" users can finely measure and adjust their hearing conditions (user-specific hearing characteristics) according to guidance, as well as the surrounding environment and the voice they want to hear. It is also possible to switch to the optimal listening mode (conversation, TV, outdoor, normal).

Conversation Mode: Reduces ambient sound and amplifies conversations. It makes it easier to hear when you want to concentrate on a meeting or in a noisy environment.
TV mode: Makes it easier to hear in environments with less ambient noise, such as when watching TV indoors.
Outdoor mode: Makes it easier to hear ambient sounds outdoors and reduces wind noise".
Normal mode: Initial mode without hearing correction."


----------



## davescleveland

So I have the ex, noble FoKus pro, Sennheiser tws 3, Akg n400, noble FoKus pro sounding the best imo. Am I missing anything with this new
ATWX9? Not heard anything better than FoKus pro yet. Thoughts? Purely sound.


----------



## productred (Oct 10, 2022)

davescleveland said:


> So I have the ex, noble FoKus pro, Sennheiser tws 3, Akg n400, noble FoKus pro sounding the best imo. Am I missing anything with this new
> ATWX9? Not heard anything better than FoKus pro yet. Thoughts? Purely sound.



Victor's HA-FW1000t still the winner up to today, the Fokus Pro is no match IMHO. The Fokus Pro is more of a easy listening kind, but FW1000 is more on the hi fidelity side of things. I have them for quite some time so their sound has more or less fully settled by now.

The Final Audio ZE3000/2000 siblings are also on top of the Fokus Pro to my ears, though I don't own a pair.


----------



## Grayson73 (Oct 10, 2022)

Hello everyone.  I've been gone for a few years!  What are some of the consensus best TWS at the $50 USD price point and $100 price point these days so I can start my research?  As you can see from my sig, I've only tried a few, and the SSK BT-03 are discontinued.

I ordered the Samsung Galaxy Buds Pro 2 used for now.  They were listed in "the very best" sounding section of Scarbir.


----------



## raphaos

davescleveland said:


> So I have the ex, noble FoKus pro, Sennheiser tws 3, Akg n400, noble FoKus pro sounding the best imo. Am I missing anything with this new
> ATWX9? Not heard anything better than FoKus pro yet. Thoughts? Purely sound.


I want to know this as well. I have EX and Focus pro but this new ATH-TWX9 sound interesting...


----------



## nekonhime

productred said:


> Victor's HA-FW1000t still the winner up to today, the Fokus Pro is no match IMHO. The Fokus Pro is more of a easy listening kind, but FW1000 is more on the hi fidelity side of things. I have them for quite some time so their sound has more or less fully settled by now.
> 
> The Final Audio ZE3000/2000 siblings are also on top of the Fokus Pro to my ears, though I don't own a pair.


I saw the victor for 137 and just ordered it. Let see if the hype is real


----------



## productred

nekonhime said:


> I saw the victor for 137 and just ordered it. Let see if the hype is real



Wow at 137 its a steal.......Great catch! Just bear in mind the spiral dot pro tips may not be for everyone, be patient to try out your favourite tips to get the best results.


----------



## Juturna

I switched out the eartips on my Galaxy Bud Pros (not the 2 pro) to the eartips from my old Bowers & Wilkins C5B wired earbuds and I really like what they did to the sound. Less splashy in the upper mids, vocals seem more natural and smoother, bass is more defined and bumps a little bit harder without sounding bloated. Did not expect that with such a wide-bore tip but the fit is great with these so it might be that. 

It also has the effect of being way more noise isolating than the ones I used before, but strangely enough it's effective enough that activating the ANC seems like it lets in more noise. Can't explain it really, but it's like the ANC gets more effective at reducing low and mid-frequency sounds which makes higher pitched sounds seem more attenuated for some reason than when ANC is off.


----------



## Juturna

productred said:


> Victor's HA-FW1000t still the winner up to today, the Fokus Pro is no match IMHO. The Fokus Pro is more of a easy listening kind, but FW1000 is more on the hi fidelity side of things. I have them for quite some time so their sound has more or less fully settled by now.
> 
> The Final Audio ZE3000/2000 siblings are also on top of the Fokus Pro to my ears, though I don't own a pair.


I'm really looking into grabbing a new set of TWS's, is it worth ordering the Victor's for around $250 from Japan over anything else? 
I find it interesting that you're rating the ZE3000 over the Fokus Pro that cost more than twice as much as the ZE3000s, and it seems that the opinion on the ZE3000 is way more divided than the Fokus Pro as well.


----------



## productred

Juturna said:


> I'm really looking into grabbing a new set of TWS's, is it worth ordering the Victor's for around $250 from Japan over anything else?
> I find it interesting that you're rating the ZE3000 over the Fokus Pro that cost more than twice as much as the ZE3000s, and it seems that the opinion on the ZE3000 is way more divided than the Fokus Pro as well.



Costs means absolutely nothing when it comes to sound quality.........not even really worth to consider for reference.


----------



## jant71

productred said:


> Victor's HA-FW1000t still the winner up to today, the Fokus Pro is no match IMHO. The Fokus Pro is more of a easy listening kind, but FW1000 is more on the hi fidelity side of things. I have them for quite some time so their sound has more or less fully settled by now.
> 
> The Final Audio ZE3000/2000 siblings are also on top of the Fokus Pro to my ears, though I don't own a pair.



Kinda skeptical of the FW1000 outclassing the Noble but the other side of the coin since I love the Be driver in the Kenwood so JVC is capable when they try.

The ZE3000 better than the Noble is an interesting clue hear. A few have had both and I don't think I have heard that on Head-fi or elsewhere. You are in the minority there. There is always the ZE8000 though which should be out in short order. 

Have you heard more than one Fokus Pro just to make sure there was no issue? Cause I have only heard the JVC/Victor may be close but never a no contest and IIRC, outside of you, I haven't heard any final TWS sounding better than the Noble.


----------



## Canabuc

dweaver said:


> One of the factors that makes me like the GB2Pro is how good it sounds at low volumes. Not being a high volume listener I am not a good judge for sound at higher volumes. I often listen to music at 1/4 or 1/3 volume with 1/2 starting to be my idea of loud.
> 
> At those lower volumes I can feel the sub-bass in Hans Zimmer tracks and feel immersed by the music with wonderful detail throughout the audio spectrum.
> 
> Rock and Jazz also have lots of detail from vocals, drum kits, and guitars. Every thing just sounds and feels vivid and clear.


Where in Canada did you get them and any deals right now?


----------



## smith

Is the only place to get the Audio-technics TWX9  from Amazon Japan at the moment..


----------



## nekonhime

smith said:


> Is the only place to get the Audio-technics TWX9  from Amazon Japan at the moment..


Amazon jp is the cheapest option right now but there also some more options but they will cost you 299 rather than 220


----------



## dweaver

Canabuc said:


> Where in Canada did you get them and any deals right now?


I bought mine direct from Samsung, no deal but did a zero percent financing plus free wireless charger.

Best Buy had them on sale for $50 off the other day.


----------



## FlyingFungus

Just picked up the Cambridge Audio Melomania 1+ for $90 Canadian (with tax)...they sound great so far! No anc, but I found a really good fit that it doesn't matter.


----------



## DigDub

Preset and custom EQ available for pixel buds pro now.


----------



## xSDMx

DigDub said:


> Preset and custom EQ available for pixel buds pro now.


It's too bad the nozzles are so stubby. I can't fit the dang PBPs into my ear holes and get any kind of seal.


----------



## productred (Oct 11, 2022)

jant71 said:


> Kinda skeptical of the FW1000 outclassing the Noble but the other side of the coin since I love the Be driver in the Kenwood so JVC is capable when they try.
> 
> The ZE3000 better than the Noble is an interesting clue hear. A few have had both and I don't think I have heard that on Head-fi or elsewhere. You are in the minority there. There is always the ZE8000 though which should be out in short order.
> 
> Have you heard more than one Fokus Pro just to make sure there was no issue? Cause I have only heard the JVC/Victor may be close but never a no contest and IIRC, outside of you, I haven't heard any final TWS sounding better than the Noble.



I have heard not one not two but FOUR Fokus Pros to make sure, two are demoes from different stores, one is mine and one is my pal's. Besides one demo set (which was heard right out of the box when it was first released) all other three set sounds consistent and consistently bleh. Suffers from the same mid hollowness and bass bloat like many other TWS, like there are random troughs everywhere across the board. Overall it is an easy listen, much to their credit (that's part of the reason I still use mine sometimes when I just want some unobtrusive BGM around - most of the time I have both the Noble and the Victor in my bag for different purposes), but definitely not for critical listening or more trained ears. The Victor is way more full and balanced, so is the Final (and actually other Final offerings as well, including my EVA crossover model, bar the 8000 which is still not yet released up to today).

I may be the minority here but I think part of the reason is the popularity of the Noble and the relative obscurity of the Victors (and some conflicting views amongst the few who had tried them, which I put down partly to the need for understanding of the spiral dot tips). Basically no one - NONE - who bothered to try mine doesn't agree (except a couple of non-audio hobbyist who think the Fokus gives more bass slam, which is quite true TBH - mid-bass slam to be exact).

To make things perfectly clear, I listen to mine exclusively through my iPhone XS, and I haven't kept account of what others use when they try my sets. And I am on my second Victor set - my first set was stolen amongst other things, and I spent like a week or two trying my best to settle on the Noble, but in the end I have to buy them again since they are so much better.


----------



## erockg

productred said:


> I have heard not one not two but FOUR Fokus Pros to make sure, two are demoes from different stores, one is mine and one is my pal's. Besides one demo set (which was heard right out of the box when it was first released) all other three set sounds consistent and consistently bleh. Suffers from the same mid hollowness and bass bloat like many other TWS, like there are random troughs everywhere across the board. Overall it is an easy listen, much to their credit (that's part of the reason I still use mine sometimes when I just want some unobtrusive BGM around - most of the time I have both the Noble and the Victor in my bag for different purposes), but definitely not for critical listening or more trained ears. The Victor is way more full and balanced, so is the Final (and actually other Final offerings as well, including my EVA crossover model, bar the 8000 which is still not yet released up to today).
> 
> I may be the minority here but I think part of the reason is the popularity of the Noble and the relative obscurity of the Victors (and some conflicting views amongst the few who had tried them, which I put down partly to the need for understanding of the spiral dot tips). Basically no one - NONE - who bothered to try mine doesn't agree (except a couple of non-audio hobbyist who think the Fokus gives more bass slam, which is quite true TBH - mid-bass slam to be exact).
> 
> To make things perfectly clear, I listen to mine exclusively through my iPhone XS, and I haven't kept account of what others use when they try my sets.


Interesting.  I absolutely LOVED the Fokus Pro much more than the ZE3000.  Different strokes for different folks for sure.  Final buds weren't awful, but also, the form factor killed my ears with the squared edges.  Early on, I read Final was going to have an app for EQ et al.  Not sure why they abandoned it or if that news was even real.  Never had bass bloat or any other issues with hollowness with my Fokus Pro.  I particularly thought the three drivers preformed well and loved the separation.  Granted, they've been sold because I do prefer my TWS with more features for WFH.  Sold my Fokus Pro so they didn't collect too much dust and lose resale value.  My collection is a revolving door so I can keep trying new TWS that come out.  The only buds that seemed to have legs over here are the B&O EX.  The new ATH-TWX9's are the latest add and they're incredibly fun.  Few bugs, but very surprised by them because I never truly love Audio Technica TWS.


----------



## erockg

DigDub said:


> Preset and custom EQ available for pixel buds pro now.


Looking forward to checking these out.  Picked up a pair on a Prime Day deal today.  Hope I dig them!


----------



## DigDub

xSDMx said:


> It's too bad the nozzles are so stubby. I can't fit the dang PBPs into my ear holes and get any kind of seal.


I find them to be extremely comfortable for me and luckily fits my ear.


----------



## DigDub

erockg said:


> Looking forward to checking these out.  Picked up a pair on a Prime Day deal today.  Hope I dig them!


The drivers in the pbp responds well to tuning. They are almost the perfect buds now in terms of sound and features.


----------



## subguy812

DigDub said:


> I find them to be extremely comfortable for me and luckily fits my ear.


I really enjoyed them in the very short time I had them. The short nozzle stopped me from achieving seal.


----------



## productred

erockg said:


> Interesting.  I absolutely LOVED the Fokus Pro much more than the ZE3000.  Different strokes for different folks for sure.  Final buds weren't awful, but also, the form factor killed my ears with the squared edges.  Early on, I read Final was going to have an app for EQ et al.  Not sure why they abandoned it or if that news was even real.  Never had bass bloat or any other issues with hollowness with my Fokus Pro.  I particularly thought the three drivers preformed well and loved the separation.  Granted, they've been sold because I do prefer my TWS with more features for WFH.  Sold my Fokus Pro so they didn't collect too much dust and lose resale value.  My collection is a revolving door so I can keep trying new TWS that come out.  The only buds that seemed to have legs over here are the B&O EX.  The new ATH-TWX9's are the latest add and they're incredibly fun.  Few bugs, but very surprised by them because I never truly love Audio Technica TWS.



Quite interested to try the TWX9 too but like you I'm never impressed with their previous offerings.


----------



## Juturna

Okay y'all, just like usual I'm thinking of getting something new, which would you choose:

Beyerdynamic Free Byrd 
Audio Technica ATH-TWX9
Galaxy Buds 2 Pro (Knowing that I have the first ones...) 
Huawei Freebuds Pro 2
Bose QC II

Any thoughts on these? I'd rather not spend more than $300-ish so some of the TOTL choices might not be possible.


----------



## howdy

The more I use the Bose QCii the more I'm really enjoying them. I still can't get over how great they sound at low volumes. I have made a few calls with them and no complaints from the other side so far.


----------



## Luke Skywalker

Juturna said:


> I mean look, I'm not a libertarian. I think government oversight can be a good thing in many instances. This is however not one of them, its just ridiculous.


I think the EU even has laws about how loud earbuds can get. And I’m pretty sure light bulbs are illegal there. You can only use LEDS now


----------



## xirxes

This thread is ginormous. Forgive me if the question is re-asked and previous answer lies only a few pages back!

I currently run Master and Dynamic MWOD+ earbuds for work, and am wondering about any potential upgrades that would be obvious to a discerning listener, but retain all of the incoming/outgoing call, ANC, preferable aptX or LDAC compatible functionality?

All I can find online is that people are raving about the newest Sony, but want to make sure it passes snuff with actual audiophiles not just CNET.

Tia


----------



## erockg

howdy said:


> The more I use the Bose QCii the more I'm really enjoying them. I still can't get over how great they sound at low volumes. I have made a few calls with them and no complaints from the other side so far.


I really do agree with you here.  I am very impressed with the QCII.  The ANC is phenomenal and the sound is wide and deep.  Particularly amazed by how great the sub bass is (with minor EQ).  Great for hard rock/metal on my end.  No issues on calls, zoom, etc.  I have them paired to several device and I'm able to force connect when needed.


----------



## erockg

clerkpalmer said:


> Thanks. I’ll await your feedback I think. Need to be a material step up in sq to take me from my Bose these days.


Honestly, if you already love those Bose QCII, you can probably save your money and pass on the ATH-TWX9.  

... But, if you have a wild hair and want to try something new, the ATH-TWX9 are the best TWS A&T have made thus far imo.  Wireless charging.  AirPods-esque fit.  Decent app with EQ and the ability to fine tune your volume controls to 16/32/64 steps.  I thought the ANC was going to be awful but I'm happy with what they block out here at home.  One glaring plus for me -- they don't have muddy bass that lacks clarity.  I used to think the bass on their previous offerings was their downfall.


----------



## erockg (Oct 12, 2022)

clerkpalmer said:


> Do they slip out easily? That would probably be a deal breaker. I don’t need to go for a run but even the app2 slip out on me with limited motion.


For me, they fit more snug than the APP.  Plus, there are so many tips, I would think that would help.  That said, I use them primarily stationary.


----------



## subguy812

I find myself grabbing the TWX9 more than the EX now. If I am going to the pool, the EX it is.

They are the best $216 I have spent in wireless.


----------



## dweaver

Juturna said:


> Okay y'all, just like usual I'm thinking of getting something new, which would you choose:
> 
> Beyerdynamic Free Byrd
> Audio Technica ATH-TWX9
> ...


I can only talk about what I know and thats the Galaxy line. I have the original GBPro and now the new model and I really like the sound of the new model more and it fits wayyyyy better. But its battery life is around the same and its ambient mode is only just OK. The ANC mode is much better though.

Sonically it has more sub-bass, the mid-bass is less prominent, and the general sound is a bit brighter and more linear sounding but not in a harsh way. The sound stage is a bit more 3D with good width. Bottom line is its less warm .


----------



## davescleveland

So still no twx9-FoKus pro-EX shootout? I hear you like the victor. Got it. Anyone on the twx9 vs these two?


----------



## erockg

davescleveland said:


> So still no twx9-FoKus pro-EX shootout? I hear you like the victor. Got it. Anyone on the twx9 vs these two?


See above somewhere.  Few posts/pages up.


----------



## SynaestheticA

davescleveland said:


> So still no twx9-FoKus pro-EX shootout? I hear you like the victor. Got it. Anyone on the twx9 vs these two?


Apparently, the Fokus Pro can go to hell, the Victor can't be beaten (Unless you are trying to figure out if they are the exact same as the JVC) and the TWx9 is the best possible sounding buds there is, packed with features that do what they're meant to. Bang Bang, How's that for a shootout?


----------



## nekonhime

SynaestheticA said:


> Apparently, the Fokus Pro can go to hell, the Victor can't be beaten (Unless you are trying to figure out if they are the exact same as the JVC) and the TWx9 is the best possible sounding buds there is, packed with features that do what they're meant to. Bang Bang, How's that for a shootout?


Now I am curious about the twx9 sound, damnit


----------



## feverfive

Not entirely sure why I haven't simply bought the *ATH-TWX9* from amazon.jp already.  At the current exchange rate, it's a hell of a good deal, I suppose.  I say this in an uneducated way because my next TWS purchase will be my first.

My reluctance probably comes form my lack of appetite in winding up with a small collection of TWS (or anything, really); in this case, not knowing how well these would work for my use case (strictly for use with my Macbook Pro for video conference calls and video consumption, very little music) has me leaning towards the boring, conventional choice of the APP2.  1st World problems for sure hahaha.


----------



## nekonhime

feverfive said:


> Not entirely sure why I haven't simply bought the *ATH-TWX9* from amazon.jp already.  At the current exchange rate, it's a hell of a good deal, I suppose.  I say this in an uneducated way because my next TWS purchase will be my first.
> 
> My reluctance probably comes form my lack of appetite in winding up with a small collection of TWS (or anything, really); in this case, not knowing how well these would work for my use case (strictly for use with my Macbook Pro for video conference calls and video consumption, very little music) has me leaning towards the boring, conventional choice of the APP2.  1st World problems for sure hahaha.


For me, it just hard for me to return the earbuds back to japan if I don't like it


----------



## CocaCola15

FlyingFungus said:


> Just picked up the Cambridge Audio Melomania 1+ for $90 Canadian (with tax)...they sound great so far! No anc, but I found a really good fit that it doesn't matter.


Big fan of the original M1 and now the M1+. Very underrated IMHO, especially with foam tips. They have them for $59 on Amazon so I bought a backup pair. No, not ANC, but seal very well. Just a fan of the sound, and builr like tanks.


----------



## FlyingFungus

CocaCola15 said:


> Big fan of the original M1 and now the M1+. Very underrated IMHO, especially with foam tips. They have them for $59 on Amazon so I bought a backup pair. No, not ANC, but seal very well. Just a fan of the sound, and builr like tanks.


Yeah the seal is excellent and they really feel solid. Very impressed!


----------



## webvan

Don't remember this Bose QCII review being posted before, it's not in English but the charts and subtitles are so it's easy to follow. The measurements are very detailed and there are actual listening tests for ANC and Ambient. The reviews reflects my experience (white noise, noise control always on) except for the wind noise part that I get in ANC mode, especially in the right ear.
Given his results he seems to be thinking that they only use the internal microphone for ANC, like the XM4 in "wind redution" mode but given my experience it doesn't seem to be the case and it wouldn't likely produce the excellent ANC he's measuring that would have to come from the ForceFeedback+Feedback ANC combo.


----------



## Juturna (Oct 13, 2022)

I'm starting to be tempted by the Audio Technica's now... but I feel like I know too little about them besides "sounds really good", Like call quality/battery life/anc strength and stuff like that.


----------



## jant71 (Oct 13, 2022)

New Sony!!  ....









Spoiler: Got you excited didn't I.



It is another OTC HA but only a TWS with iOS for some reason but the app is for both Android/iOS.


----------



## scubaphish (Oct 13, 2022)

jant71 said:


> New Sony!!  ....
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Looks like they’re being marketed as OTC hearing aides.

https://www.engadget.com/sony-unveils-1000-over-the-counter-hearing-aids-131152865.html

Edit; yeah you put that in the spoiler. My bad


----------



## Grayson73

What are some of the consensus best TWS at the $50 USD price point and $100 price point these days?  Back when I was looking for some, the SSK BT-03 were the ones to get, but they've been discontinued.  Thanks in advance!


----------



## Blueshound24 (Oct 13, 2022)

I have the MW07 and really like the sound signature. However, I cannot get a good fit because the body of the IEM prevents reaching acceptable depth of insertion into the ear canal. Or you could say the length of the stem for the ear tip is too short to get proper depth. So I cannot get a good seal and thus that prevents achieving a good bass response.

I also have the Liberty 2 Pro and like them as well, but I think the MW07 is a little more coherent and balanced and inline with my tastes? However, I find them hard to get a good insertion depth as well, similar to the MW07.

For those familiar with the MW07, what BT earphones have at least a similar sound or better, but are easier to get a better fit with deeper ear tip insertion? I like good treble, the MW07 delivers and I do not consider myself a basshead and I like a somewhat balanced and fast sound with good impact, that is the way I would describe the MW07, imo.

I'm willing to spend whatever it takes to get decent sound.


EDIT: *It appears the MW08 has a slightly differently shaped body that may possibly make a deeper fit possible? Does anyone have any experience in that being the case?*
Maybe the L3pro would be an option as well?


----------



## smith (Oct 13, 2022)

Received an email reply from Audio-technics Uk that the TWX9 should be available (in the Uk) at the end of the month.


----------



## nekonhime

https://majorhifi.com/beyerdynamic-xelento-remote-second-generation/
Anyone want to try this one?


----------



## Juturna

Damn, I wanted to order the TWX9 because the price seemed decent for the specs, but with all the extra costs (shipping plus customs fees etc) I'm not sure about it. It's like almost $300...


----------



## tiagopinto

Asoares99 said:


> Hello, I have received my ATH Twx9 some days ago but I'm feeling very frustrated. Sound is amazing but everytime I use them the next time I take them out of the case the app does not recognize and I need to unpair and pair again the headphones, sometimes more than once to have them working. Has anyone had such issue with them as it makes it extremely annoying. Thanks



Hi, where did you buy them from? Thx.


----------



## dweaver

Decided to try the Liberty 3 Pro since they were on sale for $120 on Amazon. I am thinking they might be a fun bassy option. 

The Galaxy Buds 2 Pro continue to impress. Went for a run and they worked extremely well. I had ANC on and zero wind issues. My other favorites the Linkbuds S work well but only when ANC was off.

Another interesting thing with the GB2Pro is that I get 5-6hrs of battery life and they are using the 24bit codec whereas if I turn on LDAC on the Linkbuds S I am lucky if I get 4 hours battery life.


----------



## sgtbilko

Need a little ear tip help...

I finally decided to try the Soundcore Liberty 3 pro's. Very impressed with the sound, however, the largest tip in the box for my doesn't seal very well for my left ear. My basic observation is that it doesn't grip well enough.

Can anyone recommend a tip (or tips) that might solve the problem?

Thanks in advance!


----------



## helmutcheese

^^ Their tips are actually some of the largest (the reddish ones) but I prefer SpinFits for sound/comfort, but they are thin and lack density so not good for ANC for me, so I opt for AZLA's range, and I need XL in both so about 14mm.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

Azla Crystals are the best tips I've ever used. Nearly the same grip as the Xelastec without warping, the convenience of silicone with the isolation of foam. The wider bores also mean they don't color the sound as much as others.


----------



## pigeontree

I received my pair of ATH-TWX9 yesterday, after much anticipation from this thread, and unfortunately the left earbud does not work. I contacted AT and received a response very quickly stating that I had an initial failure and that I must contact Amazon.jp

Such a shame! I hope they can get me a replacement soon and that I won’t have to send these back and wait for them to receive them first.

The earbuds and the case all feel very high quality, as some have said the light on the case is intensely bright, I hope they add a dimmer to that in the app.

There was a firmware update available but it wouldn’t let me install it because both earbuds needed to be paired for the update.


----------



## cresny

pigeontree said:


> I received my pair of ATH-TWX9 yesterday, after much anticipation from this thread, and unfortunately the left earbud does not work. I contacted AT and received a response very quickly stating that I had an initial failure and that I must contact Amazon.jp
> 
> Such a shame! I hope they can get me a replacement soon and that I won’t have to send these back and wait for them to receive them first.
> 
> ...


What a bummer! If it's any consolation, one-earbud use does operate in mono.


----------



## jant71

https://www-phileweb-com.translate....html?_x_tr_sl=auto&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en-US
CKS30TW review. Sounds like it has a tighter quicker bass and more forward mids/vocals than the CKS50TW.


----------



## pigeontree

cresny said:


> What a bummer! If it's any consolation, one-earbud use does operate in mono.


I noticed that when I only heard sound in my right ear. As much as I tried, I just couldn't get any sort of sense of how these sound with just one earbud lol. 
Return is already sorted. Amazon.jp has very friendly CS, but the shipping procedure is a bit wonky. They requested that I ship via DHL at my own expense, and once they receive it they will refund me. The cost of the return shipping was $130! 

They immediately processed a replacement for me, with normal speed shipping. The agent said that he was unable to upgrade the shipping speed to priority, as the replacement has to be shipped at the same speed as the original order.. However, it gave me the option of changing the shipping speed on my end, and I was able to upgrade it to Priority. The agent confirmed that it worked and I wasn't charged.

Hoping the replacements arrive soon and without issues.


----------



## FYLegend

pigeontree said:


> I noticed that when I only heard sound in my right ear. As much as I tried, I just couldn't get any sort of sense of how these sound with just one earbud lol.
> Return is already sorted. Amazon.jp has very friendly CS, but the shipping procedure is a bit wonky. They requested that I ship via DHL at my own expense, and once they receive it they will refund me. The cost of the return shipping was $130!
> 
> They immediately processed a replacement for me, with normal speed shipping. The agent said that he was unable to upgrade the shipping speed to priority, as the replacement has to be shipped at the same speed as the original order.. However, it gave me the option of changing the shipping speed on my end, and I was able to upgrade it to Priority. The agent confirmed that it worked and I wasn't charged.
> ...


I have been in the process of getting a Soundcore product replaced but Soundcore support seems to want me to return the product directly and reimburse me after paying for shipping in order to get a warranty replacement, even though the Amazon Canada return window isn't over yet. I had considered returning through Amazon but I recently did that with another headphone already.


----------



## pigeontree

FYLegend said:


> I have been in the process of getting a Soundcore product replaced but Soundcore support seems to want me to return the product directly and reimburse me after paying for shipping in order to get a warranty replacement, even though the Amazon Canada return window isn't over yet. I had considered returning through Amazon but I recently did that with another headphone already.


My luck with earbuds is horrible, my first pair of soundcore liberty pro 3's would disconnected rapidly when using the app. Soundcore wanted me to send the faulty pair back before they would send the replacement, but I pleaded with them to send the replacement first and they ultimately made an exception. I still paid to ship the faulty pair back to them and was not reimbursed (it was only $5 so I wasn't sweating it). Being that you're in Canada, return shipping is likely going to be more expensive, if you have to ship back to the states? I would just go through Amazon, I wouldn't worry about the fact that you've already returned headphones with them, they have the most excellent customer service in my experience- I always go through the chat and speak to an actual representative, it never fails. 

The replacement pair was excellent by the way, but the ATH-TWX9 was calling to me, and my girlfriend really loved the sound of the soundcores, so I just gave them to her. Now I'm earbudless until the replacement ATs come :X


----------



## Brando (Oct 15, 2022)

After procrastinating forever I finally got around to trying my first set of wireless earbuds.  I wasn't expecting too much from something so small but apparently technology has come a long way.  I followed the rtings.com suggestion of the jabra elite 7 pro.  They happened to be on sale at best buy for $80 off the normal price and I had a $25 best buy gift card burning a hole in my wallet for years so what the hell I went for it. 

After following the instructions for firmware updates and setup and finally getting them charged up I fired up amazon music on my phone with flat eq nothing fancy.  The sound is way bettwer than I thought it would be.  The bass and clarity is all there and nothing jumps out as annoying or unbalanced.  I was positive I would need to eq to overcome some irritation with the sound but they did a great job tuning these. 

I would have been happy if I'd paid full price but for $95 after discount and gift card I feel pretty lucky to have gotten something that sounds just about right on the first try.  Good job Jabra.  I thought you were an office supply company lol.  If I run into any problems I'll come back and talk smack but so far quite good.


----------



## Brando

oops


----------



## FYLegend

pigeontree said:


> My luck with earbuds is horrible, my first pair of soundcore liberty pro 3's would disconnected rapidly when using the app. Soundcore wanted me to send the faulty pair back before they would send the replacement, but I pleaded with them to send the replacement first and they ultimately made an exception. I still paid to ship the faulty pair back to them and was not reimbursed (it was only $5 so I wasn't sweating it). Being that you're in Canada, return shipping is likely going to be more expensive, if you have to ship back to the states? I would just go through Amazon, I wouldn't worry about the fact that you've already returned headphones with them, they have the most excellent customer service in my experience- I always go through the chat and speak to an actual representative, it never fails.
> 
> The replacement pair was excellent by the way, but the ATH-TWX9 was calling to me, and my girlfriend really loved the sound of the soundcores, so I just gave them to her. Now I'm earbudless until the replacement ATs come :X


They asked me to ship within Canada with a tracking number. The headphone I returned was not Soundcore but a 1More SonoFlow - I decided to keep the Soundcore Q45 over it but am having issues with air pressure affecting the bass whenever I shake my head around (I don't know if this is systemic or a defect). I've heard Amazon will send out a "we're concerned" warning if you do too many regular returns and there are considerations to change this policy soon.

I decided to pick up a second back-up Liberty 3 Pro during the Prime sale. It seems to me that the new unit (Purple) is warmer-sounding and a bit missing in the treble but has a more natural soundstage as a result, while the older unit (Silver) hits very hard in the upper mids and treble [both units set to LDAC with Soundcore Signature EQ setting]. I don't know if there was a physical change or if the times I have cleaned up the nozzle with an air blower has affected the filtering of the sound.


----------



## james444

Grayson73 said:


> What are some of the consensus best TWS at the $50 USD price point and $100 price point these days?  Back when I was looking for some, the SSK BT-03 were the ones to get, but they've been discontinued.  Thanks in advance!



To me, it's the QCY HT05 (aka Melobuds ANC):

https://www.qcyearbuds.com/qcy-ht05/

For about $40, you get a capable LCP graphene driver, decent ANC (active noise cancelling), very stable BT 5.2 connection and good battery life.

But the icing on the cake is the QCY app, which lets you configure the touch controls and provides a 10-band in-device EQ. The latter means you can tune your TWS any way you want and save this tuning as an EQ preset in the device. This EQ will work with any source (phone, tablet, PC) and keep on working, even if you uninstall the app.

Here's the way I tuned my HT05, red is the default EQ, green is DF-neutral (0 -2 2 5 8 2 0 -2 -4 8) and blue is my preferred, slightly v-shaped settting (1 -2 1 5 8 7 4 1 0 8):
(All measurements are DF-compensated. Note that my EQ setting is meant to be used with ANC on for commuting)






The result sounds excellent for the price and that's a lot you get for $40 imo. In reference to a set of great budget IEMs, I'd say these are the current Tenore of TWS.


----------



## Sptz

Hi everyone, any Buss 2 Pro owners with large ear canals could possibly help me? 

The Buds 2 Pro are my very first earbuds, I've always been an over ear guy but decided to jump the shark on these for one main reason, gym. I only lift weights, no running, no jumping around, so I didn't really look for "workout specific" buds, from what I've read sound quality tends to lean towards crap.

So, with AutoEQ + my own EQ these sound absolutely fantastic, were a bit too bass/low mid heavy at default but now they're absolutely perfect for my needs!

Now here comes the problem. Apparently I have not only freakishly large ear canals but my right one seems to be substantially different from the left.

The main problem here is when at the gym, the gym music is too frickin loud + barbells dropping on the floor etc, so I need decent ANC. When the B2P work (with Azla SednaEarfit MAX Standard L size) they drown around 80% of all the sound (mainly with music playing) which is fantastic. But here's the issue, my right ear side is constantly losing seal and i mean all the time. The main reason it's a really bad experience is that every 5 mins I can hear tons of low end coming in the right side, which makes everything sound skewed and disorienting, messes with my focus etc.

Here's a brief on all the tips I've tried so far:

*Samsung Stock Tips* - S is obviously out of the question. M didn't work, no seal, poor fit in app. L worked but doesn't block out enough passively. Right side keeps wanting to come out if I clench my jaw, move head etc.

*AZLA SednaEarfit MAX Standard (L)* - Heard great things about these and they were right. Sound quality is fantastic, blocks WAY more noise than Stock passively and ANC. Seals very well.... If I'm standing still / barely doing anything. In the gym have to adjust the right side every 5/10 minutes yet again...

*AZLA SednaEarfit MAX Standard (ML)* - Decided to try the next smaller size from Ls as that could be the culprit on the right ear canal. No dice. App shows "poor fit" always, no matter how much I mess around, can't get a good seal. Useless. 

*SpinFit CP360 for True Wireless Earbuds - XL* - Like the AZLAs, these are 14mm wide and go deeper. (Although comparing them side by side they seem a bit shorter) 8.5mm compared to AZLAs 8mm. They felt great, insane passive isolation which resulted in awesome ANC. Also sound fantastic. But, here's the but, right ear canal, yet again, kept losing seal at the gym. These are with the XLs, so decided to try the L which is 13mm wide. Get a poor fit in the app 100% of the time, doesn't properly seal on both ears.

*Comply Designed For Samsung Galaxy Buds2 Pro *- Got these today. Can't get a good fit with both M and L, doesn't block anything, tons of sound/air coming through. Ear Fit test negative 100% of the time :S ***

diofit/Galaxy Buds2 Pro MultiFlange - Not good. None of the sizes seal at all. On both ears. 

Anyone have any idea what else I can try? The Azlas Max Standard are 95% perfect, just my damn right ear canal seems larger/shaped differently. If they were perhaps slightly larger in diameter it would help, I don't know. Can't even fit comply foam ones which is insane.


----------



## C_Lindbergh (Oct 15, 2022)

https://europe.beyerdynamic.com/xelento-wireless.html?cid=mm_icamp

The new 2nd Gen Xelento got me really interested! Like a proper true wireless it has an IP-rating! (IPX4)! Very interesting to say the least. Might be worth it over regular TWS, depending on well they insulate and if you're not too bothered by the cable.

Sure, they cost 1k, but on the other hand you can just get a new BT-cable (or future TWS adapter) whenever the battery becomes bad.


----------



## ac3knight

Sptz said:


> Hi everyone, any Buss 2 Pro owners with large ear canals could possibly help me?
> 
> The Buds 2 Pro are my very first earbuds, I've always been an over ear guy but decided to jump the shark on these for one main reason, gym. I only lift weights, no running, no jumping around, so I didn't really look for "workout specific" buds, from what I've read sound quality tends to lean towards crap.
> 
> ...



Try the Azlas again with the tip below (regarding pulling of earlobe) -

"You don't just jam them in there, though. You have to properly seat them in your ears. Here's a fail-safe method:

Start by placing the tips in your ears and pushing them in just a little bit. Then, use both hands to seal them up. For your left ear, reach up with your right hand and grab your left earlobe. Pull the lobe downwards a little to widen your ear canal. Then, use your left index finger to gently push the tip further into your ear. Don't shove it all the way in, but far enough to where you feel the seal. Finally, let go of your earlobe. Your ear canal returns to its normal size, and you'll feel the seal tighten. Now do the same for your other ear"

I used to have similar issues with fit on one side until I tried the earlobe-pulling method.

Also, there's a possibility that your right canal is not larger but just shaped different.

I also tried sizing up/down before but it didn't work. In the end, I just went back to my regular size and used the earlobe pulling method, which was perfect.


----------



## Leonarfd

Over the last years ive had and used Bose Soundsport(the one with cable), Bose Quietcomfort Earbuds and now Bose Quietcomfort Earbuds 2. Also had Jabra Elite 7 Pro the last year including just now Huawei Freebuds Pro 2.

On sound alone for working out the Bose buds(all 3) has a fun and engaging sound. this is what I prefer on the go or when at the job or doing workouts. 

Just sucks they have a lot of quality problems. 

The Soundsport ive had 3 new pairs sent to me on warranty since the microphone has stopped working on 2 while 1 stopped charging.  Going from the water and dust rating they should have no problems.

Buds I and II has microphone problems in awareness mode, both models are practically unusable for me who sweats much under workouts. Not to to talk about sudden pops or noises when the ears get sweaty, this in both ANC and awareness mode on the old model and the new. For my work they were both great when using ANC.  Got my money back after that I tried the the new version, it sucks since they are truly some good wireless buds.


----------



## Leonarfd (Oct 15, 2022)

Jabra Elite 7 Pro is good on both the ANC Awareness mode and you can actually turn it of both(plz learn this Bose). Sound can be EQ to your liking, stock EQ in the app  lack bass and treble for my taste. The sound is perhaps more detailed and clearer than the Bose models, less mid bass and extending more in the highs is probably why. But i have had dust problems with this model, the microphones get easily clogged up and people can not hear you clearly. Also weird since they have one of the highest water and dust ratings.

Since I sold of my Bose models after Warranty repairs, I tried the Jabra for my workouts. The sits as glue in the ear, when vigorously running on trails they can get a little loose and need resetting. I have been quite happy with them and used them less and less for calls, i would think they are great for people not using them in dusty environments. As a plumber making new houses dust is there, so that's probably the main issue for me.

The Huawei Freebuds 2 Pro is still too early to say, the sound alone is great. Clearly closer to what I'm used from IEM's, more detail and punchy and fast bass. Micrphone has surprised me on calls even in noisy areas. Time will tell if they can survive my daily work, not planning on using them for workouts. Actually hoping for a new Jaybird Vista (3) and that they fix the wind problems with ANC or awareness on.


----------



## dweaver (Oct 15, 2022)

Sptz said:


> Hi everyone, any Buss 2 Pro owners with large ear canals could possibly help me?
> 
> The Buds 2 Pro are my very first earbuds, I've always been an over ear guy but decided to jump the shark on these for one main reason, gym. I only lift weights, no running, no jumping around, so I didn't really look for "workout specific" buds, from what I've read sound quality tends to lean towards crap.
> 
> ...


The Sony Hybrid extra large for you larger ear and the large size for the other ear might do the trick.

Comply foam tips might be another option.


----------



## Blueshound24

Blueshound24 said:


> I have the MW07 and really like the sound signature. However, I cannot get a good fit because the body of the IEM prevents reaching acceptable depth of insertion into the ear canal. Or you could say the length of the stem for the ear tip is too short to get proper depth. So I cannot get a good seal and thus that prevents achieving a good bass response.
> 
> I also have the Liberty 2 Pro and like them as well, but I think the MW07 is a little more coherent and balanced and inline with my tastes? However, I find them hard to get a good insertion depth as well, similar to the MW07.
> 
> ...



Sorry for being redundant, but I was hoping someone might be able to help, especially for what is bolded.
TIA!


----------



## dweaver (Oct 15, 2022)

I have over 470hrs of use in the Sony Linkbuds S so obviously like them. But after using the Galaxy Buds 2 Pro for the last 2 weeks I am finding it harder to enjoy the Linkbuds S. They just sound to tame in comparison. Bass is not as hard hitting, mids are to smooth and a bit warm, treble lacks detail and grittiness for instruments like guitars. I even switched to LDAC to see if could get the Linkbuds to improve but they simply can't keep up for music.

But in regard to ambient mode in particular the Linkbuds S are so much better. ANC is slightly better on the Linkbuds S but in that area they are a tossup for the most part. GB2Pro are better at handling wind though.

Since ambient is the least used I can live with the GB2Pro but really wish I could have the holy grail... LOL

The Linkbuds S has better quality of life features like auto switching between modes depending on location, activity and that sort of thing but need all those tricks due to their poor battery performance.

The GB2Pro meanwhile get the same battery life using their best Codec on my Galaxy S20 phone and mostly ANC use, so win in the battery life department so don't need to switch automatically.

Edit: hmmm I just realized I had been playing with the enhanced hearing under Accessibility on the GB2Pro. Once I turned that off ambient is much better and more natural. So the ambient mode is now alot like the Linkbuds S. I prefer Sony's pause of the music with speak to chat but these are now very close to the same if I pause the music when talking to someone using the GB2Pro. Both could use just a bit more amplification for voices but are certainly serviceable.


----------



## erockg

Blueshound24 said:


> Sorry for being redundant, but I was hoping someone might be able to help, especially for what is bolded.
> TIA!


Tough to answer.  There are _*so*_ many that are even better than those MW07.  Personally, I would check out the last few pages of this chain.  You'll see the ones we've been chatting about.  Usually, new releases.  The Audio Technica ATH-TWX9, Galaxy Buds 2 Pro, Bose QCII, B&O EX, AirPods Pro 2 and more.  I do think these are all better than the old MW07.  Fit, form and function is much better.  I have all the above and enjoy them immensely.  The newer MW08 is great, but imo the others are better.  The TWS keeps getting better.  Hope this helps and is a start for you.  Others might chime in as well...


----------



## Luke Skywalker

The Noble FoKus Pro are my favorite if you don’t need NC


----------



## MisterMonsieur (Oct 15, 2022)

I am in the market for a new TWS as substitute, since I often find myself without much battery power with my only one.
I've had the Galaxy Buds Pro for over a year. Listened to my brother's Sony wm1000xm4 and the Lypertek Z7 arrived today, had a good listen to them already.
Gotta say, Z7 and XM4 sound muffled compared to my Buds Pro. The Lypertek Z7 has very very boomy bass, it goes deep but it feels pretty uncontrolled and bloats into the mids. Also the highs are rolled off signifcantly. Cymbals and  higher pitched vocals can sound very quiet.
Z7 has a really nice soundstage width with good positioning which I really enjoyed with game soundtracks. But man, I can't get over the weird tuning.
Galaxy Buds Pro are still king for me, they've been so reliable.

Comfort-wise Lypertek Z7 sticks out and you "feel" them the most but they didn't get painful after 3 hours of use. My buds pro hurt after some hours, even though they are the most comfortable lol.

I really loved the Moondrop Blessing 2 back when I had it, it seems like anything but Harman or Moondrop curve will disappoint me sadly. But I just can't do cables anymore, TWS ruined me.
Thought about getting the Final ZE3000, but they seem to have as much bass as the Z7 according to the headfonia review. I think I am playing it safe, just ordered the Galaxy Buds 2 for now.


----------



## Sptz

ac3knight said:


> Try the Azlas again with the tip below (regarding pulling of earlobe) -
> 
> "You don't just jam them in there, though. You have to properly seat them in your ears. Here's a fail-safe method:
> 
> ...


Thank you! I'm definitely gonna try this! I've noticed that, very rarely when annoyed at the gym with the right side fit I press the bud against my ear, thus shoving the tip further and it's more often than not worse. So this makes sense! 


dweaver said:


> The Sony Hybrid extra large for you larger ear and the large size for the other ear might do the trick.
> 
> Comply foam tips might be another option.



I've tried complys, detailed on my post and none seal for me. Do those Sony Hybrid fit the Buds 2 Pro?


----------



## newworld666 (Oct 15, 2022)

Sptz said:


> Thank you! I'm definitely gonna try this! I've noticed that, very rarely when annoyed at the gym with the right side fit I press the bud against my ear, thus shoving the tip further and it's more often than not worse. So this makes sense!
> 
> 
> I've tried complys, detailed on my post and none seal for me. Do those Sony Hybrid fit the Buds 2 Pro?


No, I tried my sony IER Z1R hybrid and they don't fit .. very few tips can fit the buds2 pro..
Till now the "New SpinFit CP360 for True Wireless Earbuds" are perfect with the Bud2 Pro (a perfect seal with my ears).
I found them on amazon.com


----------



## dweaver

Sptz said:


> Thank you! I'm definitely gonna try this! I've noticed that, very rarely when annoyed at the gym with the right side fit I press the bud against my ear, thus shoving the tip further and it's more often than not worse. So this makes sense!
> 
> 
> I've tried complys, detailed on my post and none seal for me. Do those Sony Hybrid fit the Buds 2 Pro?


They work on my pair but are not super secure so might pop off. A brand new pair will likely work best as it won't be stretched.


----------



## ac3knight

Sptz said:


> Thank you! I'm definitely gonna try this! I've noticed that, very rarely when annoyed at the gym with the right side fit I press the bud against my ear, thus shoving the tip further and it's more often than not worse. So this makes sense!
> 
> 
> I've tried complys, detailed on my post and none seal for me. Do those Sony Hybrid fit the Buds 2 Pro?



Let me know if it works for you too!


----------



## loopfreak (Oct 16, 2022)

This is one chunky thread so maybe I'm repeating the question.

Owner of the Galaxy Buds Plus, and when using my Mac M1 as a source which is not often I can detect difference to the better as compared to my Android phone ( AAC as well).

Without going into details the 'phones sound feels bigger with better tonality and much bigger headspace, better positioning foremost.

*I know that transfer codec is the main bottleneck with buds plus but is it possible  that AAC conversion and transfer is so much better on mac's ?*

I'm tempted to get an "I" device solely on bluetooth range and stability along with sound quality even if I'm not a fan of apple.

I haven't got newer or any *Samsung* device in the house but *did someone do the testing vs Apple with galaxy buds range ?*


----------



## loopfreak (Oct 16, 2022)

samandhi said:


> Apple does not allow true bit perfect playing, and captures any/all signals going to output (or in this case BT) and *adds their own system DSP*. This is part of the reason that other system-wide EQ apps don't work


I did some digging and does apple really adds proprietary DSP, or is this another fine example of apple BS marketing (?) AAC is just another codec, it's not magic.


----------



## Caipirina

It feels like I have reached my personal 'end of the line' with the Bose II ... while usually I have already earmarked some piggy bank money for the NEXT thing .. this time I somehow have NO NEXT THING really that I am looking forward to .. I am just so happy with the Bose, despite a few shortcomings (i.e. when I take them out of the case, there is a 1 in 5 chance that they mess up the connection somehow, like, they DO connect to themselves and the phone, but sending commands like 'switch on ANC' does not work ... nothing a simple 'back in and out' won't fix, but I hope they get that sorted in FW sometime) 
With all the hype for the TWX9 (and actually being in Japan), I thought I might get those, but someone here said 'if you are happy with the Bose, you don't need them' ... money saved    I still feel I might get the APP2 eventually, but they are crazy expensive here. 
On the cheapo front / AliExpress I am not seeing anything interesting new either and .. I think I am done with cheapo stuff ... 

Well, some day we might still get Sony XM5 buds?


----------



## samandhi (Oct 16, 2022)

loopfreak said:


> I did some digging and does apple really adds proprietary DSP, or is this another fine example of apple BS marketing (?) AAC is just another codec, it's not magic.


The context of what I was saying is also rather important to arrive at the answer to your question. It is not proprietary DSP, but Apple is a locked system (so in a way it is, but only because you can't change it). And it isn't necessarily in the codec that the DSP is being done, but through the music player (and Apple ecosystem) itself. AAC does not do any DSP. It is simply a way of compressing file size with as little loss to the original sound as is possible (just like .mp3 is). You are right, it is not magic, though is a very good lossy compression, and also a good (lossy) BT codec (I'm sure you know these two things are different).

On the one hand (in android) you can set a player to "bit perfect" (UAPP or Neutron as example) and if you try and use EQ, it will not affect the sound. This means that the sound is not being altered (DSP) before being sent to the head gear. This same experiment can be done in any iDevice and you will find that you can affect the sound with EQ at any time.

Now, let's take an example where you are using your iDevice and android phone out to an external DAC/amp. You would expect that, if the music player were bit perfect, you would not hear any difference in sound if switching between an android transport and an iDevice because at that point the music player is simply a transport (taking the digital, not analog, signal out to the external DAC/amp). All the DSP SHOULD be happening in the external amp. The point is that if you change from android to iDevice and back again to the same external DAC/amp and head gear you should hear no difference unless DSP is being applied before being transported out to the external DAC/amp. There is no way to avoid this in any iDevice (AFAIK), unless you Jailbreak the iDevice. Android also has a sort of limitation, but only after reaching above 24/48 where it will resample (which is DSP) and will make it sound different than the original. Neutron and UAPP bypass this by using their own "high resolution" driver and bypassing android's.

Where this applies to TWS is that the iDevice (or android) is the transport and the TWS device is the combination of the DAC/amp and head gear from the example from above. If the digital file is being transported with no DSP, then it should sound exactly the same whether it comes from android or iDevice.

Now, where this can be different between android and iDevice is in the implementation of the codecs. But, this still doesn't necessarily "color" the sound, it simply might sound different (less/more high quality) because of the (different) data that is thrown away (I know we're nitpicking here, but there is a difference between DSP and lost data from lossy codecs). So, let's pretend that the implementation of AAC is the same on both the android and iDevice. You will still hear a difference because the Apple ecosystem does do DSP (with no EQ, their version of flat, is not actually flat). Forcing a flat EQ is still DSP, where no EQ at all is just what it sounds like; no DSP (if that makes any sense).

Having said all of that, this is not always a bad thing, nor am I picking on Apple. For many, it is a desirable DSP, and in most cases, it matters not at all. But for those seeking to be as close as possible to the original this could be an issue that they have no control over (it is rather minute in the grand scheme of things). Besides TWS is still not to the point of being completely transparent in the sound (though a lot closer than some years ago), so it really doesn't matter in the end. I was merely throwing my thoughts out there as more of an observation of (possible) interest.


----------



## Blueshound24 (Oct 16, 2022)

erockg said:


> Tough to answer.  There are _*so*_ many that are even better than those MW07.  Personally, I would check out the last few pages of this chain.  You'll see the ones we've been chatting about.  Usually, new releases.  The Audio Technica ATH-TWX9, Galaxy Buds 2 Pro, Bose QCII, B&O EX, AirPods Pro 2 and more.  I do think these are all better than the old MW07.  Fit, form and function is much better.  I have all the above and enjoy them immensely.  The newer MW08 is great, but imo the others are better.  The TWS keeps getting better.  Hope this helps and is a start for you.  Others might chime in as well...



Thanks for that. 

I'm curious of the reasons why you said the others you listed were better than the MW08? 
Did you think that with the newer MW08 body shape that you were able to get a better ear tip depth, and seal than the MW07?
I would think that all the wireless IEM's you mentioned would have great treble, with no bass bleeding into the mids?

I do like headphones with a clear and present treble, and that's one reason why I like the MW07, but I could not get a seal due to the shallow tip depth and the body shape, and they would not stay in place because of that.

I have tried and was able to get deep insertion with the Sennheiser MTW 1st gen but the treble was too rolled off for me. Maybe the MTW 3 would have more of a treble presence without bass bleed? 

I may give the GB2 Pro a try. However, I was a little turned off on Samsung Galaxy buds after trying the Samsung Galaxy Buds Live, (beans), that I tried. They were a muddy mess with the bass bleeding all over the mids. But I would think the GB2 pro would be in a whole different league than them.

I cannot find much info or sellers for the ATH-TWX9, but they do sound appealing.

The B&O EX look great and are on my short list as well.


----------



## erockg

Blueshound24 said:


> Thanks for that.
> 
> I'm curious of the reasons why you said the others you listed were better than the MW08?
> Did you think that with the newer MW08 body shape that you were able to get a better ear tip depth, and seal than the MW07?
> ...


I'm a fan of M&W and have always loved their build quality.  I do think their bass can be muddy and the instrument separation isn't as good as others.  I keep buying their stuff then either selling or returning due to finding others that just beat them for sound.  At least in my opinion.  I agree with you about the fit and seal.  Takes a lot of tip rolling to get the MW's to fit right.  The MW08 were better as far as fit was concerned, but again, still not there.  Plus, the ANC is so very weak.  The MTW3 are great.  I had them up until a week ago.  I'm giving more love to the ATH, EX, GBP2, Bose QCII and a few others.  Case size and fit were the main reasons that led me to flip them.  The others I list just fit me perfect.  Having a lot of fun with them.  The GBP2 are soooo much better than the Live.  If you're on Android, they're a pretty damn good value.  I love mine.  I'd say get a few from a place like Amazon, or the like with a good return policy so you can hear for yourself and decide.


----------



## Not so fat head

🤮
Does Amazon resale returned TWS headphones???  The reason I'm asking, is I picked up an obvious used pair of in ear phones from Marshall's.  I went outside and opened up the box and the ear phones had earwax all over them.
Inside the tips, caked on the nozzle..
I went back inside Marshall's, showed the manager and some other girls working there and one of them actually vomited...
😃


----------



## nekonhime

Not so fat head said:


> 🤮
> Does Amazon resale returned TWS headphones???  The reason I'm asking, is I picked up an obvious used pair of in ear phones from Marshall's.  I went outside and opened up the box and the ear phones had earwax all over them.
> Inside the tips, caked on the nozzle..
> I went back inside Marshall's, showed the manager and some other girls working there and one of them actually vomited...
> 😃


Yes they do, there the refurbished section for them


----------



## Blueshound24

erockg said:


> I'm a fan of M&W and have always loved their build quality.  I do think their bass can be muddy and the instrument separation isn't as good as others.  I keep buying their stuff then either selling or returning due to finding others that just beat them for sound.  At least in my opinion.  I agree with you about the fit and seal.  Takes a lot of tip rolling to get the MW's to fit right.  The MW08 were better as far as fit was concerned, but again, still not there.  Plus, the ANC is so very weak.  The MTW3 are great.  I had them up until a week ago.  I'm giving more love to the ATH, EX, GBP2, Bose QCII and a few others.  Case size and fit were the main reasons that led me to flip them.  The others I list just fit me perfect.  Having a lot of fun with them.  The GBP2 are soooo much better than the Live.  If you're on Android, they're a pretty damn good value.  I love mine.  I'd say get a few from a place like Amazon, or the like with a good return policy so you can hear for yourself and decide.



Where did you buy the ATH-TWX9? I'm in the USA, and I can't find a seller. I think all the others can be had on Amazon.


----------



## nekonhime

Blueshound24 said:


> Where did you buy the ATH-TWX9? I'm in the USA, and I can't find a seller. I think all the others can be had on Amazon.


You can find it on amazon.jp, create a new amazon account and have it ship to the US


----------



## Blueshound24

nekonhime said:


> You can find it on amazon.jp, create a new amazon account and have it ship to the US



I would not want to create another Prime membership due to that being cost prohibitive. So I would assume I would have to pay for shipping from Japan? And if I were to return it, I would suppose return shipping would be on me as well?


----------



## nekonhime

Blueshound24 said:


> I would not want to create another Prime membership due to that being cost prohibitive. So I would assume I would have to pay for shipping from Japan? And if I were to return it, I would suppose return shipping would be on me as well?


Yep, that why I am still reluctant to order from them


----------



## BooleanBones

Blueshound24 said:


> I would not want to create another Prime membership due to that being cost prohibitive. So I would assume I would have to pay for shipping from Japan? And if I were to return it, I would suppose return shipping would be on me as well?


Returning is horrible via DHL in my experience. Wouldn't bother trying. They should be released in the US soon I think.


----------



## dweaver

I have only done one purchase from Amazon Japan and once from AlieExpress and both were painfully slow and cost ridden with no real way of doing a return that was not so expensive as to be not worth while. I have since  accepted just buying in Canada and very rarely from the US. Other may be more acceptable of the risk but for me it's just not worth the hassle.


----------



## BooleanBones

dweaver said:


> I have only done one purchase from Amazon Japan and once from AlieExpress and both were painfully slow and cost ridden with no real way of doing a return that was not so expensive as to be not worth while. I have since  accepted just buying in Canada and very rarely from the US. Other may be more acceptable of the risk but for me it's just not worth the hassle.


Yep, have to consider them blind buys really, not worth the money/trouble trying to send back.


----------



## dleblanc343

Blueshound24 said:


> I would not want to create another Prime membership due to that being cost prohibitive. So I would assume I would have to pay for shipping from Japan? And if I were to return it, I would suppose return shipping would be on me as well?


If you can be a little patient, it‘s releasing November 12th in North America.

Then aftersale support will be much better too


----------



## Blueshound24

dleblanc343 said:


> If you can be a little patient, it‘s releasing November 12th in North America.
> 
> Then aftersale support will be much better too




Yup, that was my plan. BTW, do you happen to have any links to reviews for the twx9, in English?


----------



## mugbot

SomeGuyDude said:


> Azla Crystals are the best tips I've ever used. Nearly the same grip as the Xelastec without warping, the convenience of silicone with the isolation of foam. The wider bores also mean they don't color the sound as much as others.


Does anyone know if the crystals are compatible with the galaxy buds 2 pro?


----------



## Luke Skywalker

Just got Focal Bathys headphones. They sound pretty amazing. Makes me wonder if they’ll try their hand at TWS buds at some point


----------



## cresny

nekonhime said:


> Yep, that why I am still reluctant to order from them


For the US, the exchange rate now is even better than it was when I bought them. I am guessing they will sell for $299 here, and plus tax that comes to about $100 more than I paid, essentially something like a 45% upcharge. But I knew I would never return them and at worst would sell them for a minor loss early on when they were in fairly pristine condition. Instead they become my daily drivers, especially once I found that their multipoint was better than anything else I had.


----------



## BooleanBones

cresny said:


> For the US, the exchange rate now is even better than it was when I bought them. I am guessing they will sell for $299 here, and plus tax that comes to about $100 more than I paid, essentially something like a 45% upcharge. But I knew I would never return them and at worst would sell them for a minor loss early on when they were in fairly pristine condition. Instead they become my daily drivers, especially once I found that their multipoint was better than anything else I had.


Yeah, the Yen is pretty bad. As crazy as it is now dollar to yen, when I arrived in Japan back in 89, the yen was 230ish to the dollar. Wish I had money back then


----------



## dleblanc343

Blueshound24 said:


> Yup, that was my plan. BTW, do you happen to have any links to reviews for the twx9, in English?


I do not unfortunately as very limited people have them here.

You can ask me questions in private message or public if you’d like, I know their featureset quite well and also have the entire marketing sheet fresh off the press to refer to


----------



## erockg

Blueshound24 said:


> I would not want to create another Prime membership due to that being cost prohibitive. So I would assume I would have to pay for shipping from Japan? And if I were to return it, I would suppose return shipping would be on me as well?


You don't have to join Amazon Prime in Japan to get them.  I ordered them without Prime from them.


----------



## pigeontree

The ATH-TWX9 only come out to around $220-230 shipped from amazon.jp

If they don’t work out to your liking, reselling them should be easy being that they’re bound to retail for more once they release here.


----------



## nekonhime

pigeontree said:


> The ATH-TWX9 only come out to around $220-230 shipped from amazon.jp
> 
> If they don’t work out to your liking, reselling them should be easy being that they’re bound to retail for more once they release here.


That will be a risky move as they are not as mainstream like bose, Sennheiser or sony so it is hard to sell them.


----------



## nekonhime

https://www.yankodesign.com/2022/10...ure-still-not-convinced-by-the-airpods-pro-2/
Saw some weird buds lol. Just put it here if anyone want to try them


----------



## Juturna

I got really lucky, I don't know if people remember me buying a set of faulty Liberty 3 Pros from a guy and then returning them to him. He got new ones sent out from Anker/Soundcore and I got to choose the color that I wanted which was a different one than he sent in, and the guy still sold it to me brand new for $60. Feels good. 
I feel like I don't really need better right now when I have these, the only thing I'd want is better ANC (and better design + battery I guess) because I feel like it's really lacking on these. Probably mostly because they don't go as deep in the ear canals as some of my other buds, so there's less passive noise isolation. 

I mean, I obviously still want new earbuds but I'm in no rush right now and can wait for the next new thing if you know what I mean.


----------



## Luke Skywalker

BooleanBones said:


> Yeah, the Yen is pretty bad. As crazy as it is now dollar to yen, when I arrived in Japan back in 89, the yen was 230ish to the dollar. Wish I had money back then


I’ve wanted to go to Japan since I was a little kid. I love the people, culture, history, and tech obsession   and anime of course. Hope I make it there some day.


----------



## erockg

nekonhime said:


> That will be a risky move as they are not as mainstream like bose, Sennheiser or sony so it is hard to sell them.


I’ve sold many Audio Technica buds in the past on eBay here in the US with no issues.  Guess I’m lucky!  eBay is my go-to place to flip stuff when needed.


----------



## nekonhime

Luke Skywalker said:


> I’ve wanted to go to Japan since I was a little kid. I love the people, culture, history, and tech obsession   and anime of course. Hope I make it there some day.


Yen going down is really a big help for my wallet and my collection lol


----------



## BooleanBones

nekonhime said:


> Yen going down is really a big help for my wallet and my collection lol


Thanks for the Monday laugh, much needed.


----------



## nekonhime

BooleanBones said:


> Thanks for the Monday laugh, much needed.


You are welcome. Happy Monday


----------



## gabriely

nekonhime said:


> Yen going down is really a big help for my wallet and my collection lol


Jesus Christ I was going to say that's quite the collection of headphones/IEMs... then I realised it's anime merch & figurines hahahaha


----------



## Luke Skywalker

Got my first pair of Bluetooth headphones: Focal Bathys. It’s kind of funny considering I have more TWS buds than I can easily count. Sound great over AAC with iPhone. They don’t have LDAC but that wasn’t a big deal for me


----------



## nekonhime (Oct 17, 2022)

gabriely said:


> Jesus Christ I was going to say that's quite the collection of headphones/IEMs... then I realised it's anime merch & figurines hahahaha


You will never want to see how I treat my headphones and my earbuds lol


Luke Skywalker said:


> Got my first pair of Bluetooth headphones: Focal Bathys. It’s kind of funny considering I have more TWS buds than I can easily count. Sound great over AAC with iPhone. They don’t have LDAC but that wasn’t a big deal for me


How the sq and anc compared to the other top dogs like APM, xm5, 5909, h95, px8?


----------



## nekonhime

New toy
Sq is quite amazing without eq, vocal for female singer is good, bass is punchy and clean, instruments separation is there but a bit lacking in my opinion, the volume is really low as I have to crank up to 100% to hear or my buds are faulty? 
Anc is kinda trash


----------



## erockg

I've been going back and forth today with the ATH-TWX9 and the AirPods Pro 2.  I have to admit, the APP2 really are a step up in sound quality in comparison to the first gen.  The sub bass is SOOOOOOO much better now.  Soundstage seems wider and more lively.  Automatic switching between all my Apple tech has been flawless.


----------



## Luke Skywalker

nekonhime said:


> You will never want to see how I treat my headphones and my earbuds lol
> 
> How the sq and anc compared to the other top dogs like APM, xm5, 5909, h95, px8?


I wish I knew I haven’t heard any of those  I might pick up the ML 5909


----------



## BooleanBones

Luke Skywalker said:


> I wish I knew I haven’t heard any of those  I might pick up the ML 5909


Love my PX8s so far


----------



## erockg

BooleanBones said:


> Love my PX8s so far


Ha ha! Of course you did.


----------



## nekonhime

Luke Skywalker said:


> I wish I knew I haven’t heard any of those  I might pick up the ML 5909


Please make a comparison when you have the 5909


----------



## cresny

BooleanBones said:


> Love my PX8s so far


My last over-ears was the PX. For 2+ years they were totally it for me. But then they sorta went Pandemic-X, meaning _this_ thread and too much time on my hands. But I already mentally OK'd the PX 8. I'm enjoying the atx-9 too much for now, but those will be a fun sport-shopping target this holiday season.


----------



## BooleanBones

cresny said:


> My last over-ears was the PX. For 2+ years they were totally it for me. But then they sorta went Pandemic-X, meaning _this_ thread and too much time on my hands. But I already mentally OK'd the PX 8. I'm enjoying the atx-9 too much for now, but those will be a fun sport-shopping target this holiday season.


I still have the PXs and PX7 carbons, and these are night and day different


----------



## Phaethon

erockg said:


> I've been going back and forth today with the ATH-TWX9 and the AirPods Pro 2.  I have to admit, the APP2 really are a step up in sound quality in comparison to the first gen.  The sub bass is SOOOOOOO much better now.  Soundstage seems wider and more lively.  Automatic switching between all my Apple tech has been flawless.


I just got the APP2s and I agree on every point you make. Except it feels like the sound has made several steps up. It's got the real bass that I wanted on the previous model and you're right the soundstage is pretty impressive. I liked the GBP2 but the lack of an ios app was too inconvenient. I shouldn't have to have two phones to adjust my buds. Well done Apple!


----------



## erockg

Phaethon said:


> I just got the APP2s and I agree on every point you make. Except it feels like the sound has made several steps up. It's got the real bass that I wanted on the previous model and you're right the soundstage is pretty impressive. I liked the GBP2 but the lack of an ios app was too inconvenient. I shouldn't have to have two phones to adjust my buds. Well done Apple!


I'm going back and forth now between the Google Pixel Buds Pro (Prime day unnecessary purchase) and the APP2.  The GPBP are driving me nuts.  They connect to my Fold 4 and my IP14PM great, but when you are connected to the iPhone then go back to the GPBP they won't play sound but will still play/pause etc.  So weird.  I've tried everything I could think of and it happens every time.  Blah!


----------



## Phaethon

erockg said:


> I'm going back and forth now between the Google Pixel Buds Pro (Prime day unnecessary purchase) and the APP2.  The GPBP are driving me nuts.  They connect to my Fold 4 and my IP14PM great, but when you are connected to the iPhone then go back to the GPBP they won't play sound but will still play/pause etc.  So weird.  I've tried everything I could think of and it happens every time.  Blah!


I'm sorry! My bad! Stupid naming conventions. I haven't tried the Pixel Buds Pro yet (and it sounds like maybe I shouldn't!). I meant to say I'd been getting frustrated by the Galaxy Buds 2 Pro in the Apple universe. Great sound and fantastic on the LG V60 I keep as an ipod, but just awkward on the iPhone. I may keep the GB2P to see if I can find a way to get more out of them on my iPhone but right now, given the quality of the APP2, it doesn't seem worth the effort!


----------



## erockg

Phaethon said:


> I'm sorry! My bad! Stupid naming conventions. I haven't tried the Pixel Buds Pro yet (and it sounds like maybe I shouldn't!). I meant to say I'd been getting frustrated by the Galaxy Buds 2 Pro in the Apple universe. Great sound and fantastic on the LG V60 I keep as an ipod, but just awkward on the iPhone. I may keep the GB2P to see if I can find a way to get more out of them on my iPhone but right now, given the quality of the APP2, it doesn't seem worth the effort!


I have the GB2P tooand really like them.  Better after I added the volume controls etc. Through the wearbles app.  Way too many buds.  Some days is hard to decide what the heck to use!


----------



## DigDub

So after the honeymoon phase for my recent acquisitions - pixel buds pro, Huawei freebuds pro 2, Samsung buds2 pro and Oppo enco x2, my favourite is the Oppo. The highs is crisp and well defined without sounding piercing. Sibilance is nipped right before they surface. Mids, especially vocals sound natural, they don't sound grainy or artificial. The bass hits deep with good fluidity. The soundstage is very wide due to the vent at the nozzle which makes the buds sound very airy. A downside to the venting is that it let's in quite a lot of external noise.


----------



## dweaver

Got the Liberty 3 Pro yesterday and they sound pretty darn good. But I prefer the GB2Pro more.

I am having a hard time getting the left ear bud to charge. It lights up in the case, so I assume that is correct but it's not charging. Any ideas on what I can try to get it working?

If these turn out defective I may just return them and get a refund. They are nice but not as good as the GB2Pro so no sense messing around.


----------



## Caipirina

Luke Skywalker said:


> Got my first pair of Bluetooth headphones: Focal Bathys. It’s kind of funny considering I have more TWS buds than I can easily count. Sound great over AAC with iPhone. They don’t have LDAC but that wasn’t a big deal for me


boy am I glad they are totally out of my price range ... they look kinda nice ... but I think i have enough with Bose QC 35 and Airpods Max


----------



## MaxwellDemon

I got my ATH-TWX9! Amazing wireless earbuds so far, really looking forward to putting it through its pace.


----------



## regancipher (Oct 18, 2022)

Got the Air3 Deluxe HS coming, SoundPEATS' first LDAC buds.....should be interesting!

Also got the Morph Audio on the way from Indiegogo....although looking at the feedback so far I'm not holding out too much hope with these


----------



## Juturna

dweaver said:


> Got the Liberty 3 Pro yesterday and they sound pretty darn good. But I prefer the GB2Pro more.
> 
> I am having a hard time getting the left ear bud to charge. It lights up in the case, so I assume that is correct but it's not charging. Any ideas on what I can try to get it working?
> 
> If these turn out defective I may just return them and get a refund. They are nice but not as good as the GB2Pro so no sense messing around.


Wow, I can't imagine how good the GBP2Pros must sound if they're better than the Liberty 3 Pro's... Honestly, I keep getting blown away by the Liberty 3 Pro more and more each day. The sound is so insanely holographic to me that I swear that I'm listening to over-ear headphones sometimes. The clarity phenomenal, the bass can be tamed to very good levels as well, and I feel like these silver ones I have now have a leaner bass response (in a good way) in comparison to the white pair I had before. It rumbles with the best of them when needed, but it's not always slightly too bloated and fat like I felt my previous L3P's were. 

Also huh, I also had issues with the left earbud on my old pair of L3P's, but then it was mostly due to the contacts on both the buds and the case being extremely sensitive towards muck building up on them. Like it could literally be stuff that you couldn't see with your eyes and it wouldn't charge, but if I just made sure I cleaned both the contacts and the pins in the case before putting them in. It was super annoying because it happened often... and it would seem like it was charging but I needed to open the case several times to see if the left earbuds actually did the whole "blinking" that they do when they charge.


----------



## harpdoc

erockg said:


> I'm a fan of M&W and have always loved their build quality.  I do think their bass can be muddy and the instrument separation isn't as good as others.  I keep buying their stuff then either selling or returning due to finding others that just beat them for sound.  At least in my opinion.  I agree with you about the fit and seal.  Takes a lot of tip rolling to get the MW's to fit right.  The MW08 were better as far as fit was concerned, but again, still not there.  Plus, the ANC is so very weak.  The MTW3 are great.  I had them up until a week ago.  I'm giving more love to the ATH, EX, GBP2, Bose QCII and a few others.  Case size and fit were the main reasons that led me to flip them.  The others I list just fit me perfect.  Having a lot of fun with them.  The GBP2 are soooo much better than the Live.  If you're on Android, they're a pretty damn good value.  I love mine.  I'd say get a few from a place like Amazon, or the like with a good return policy so you can hear for yourself and decide.





Blueshound24 said:


> Thanks for that.
> 
> I'm curious of the reasons why you said the others you listed were better than the MW08?
> Did you think that with the newer MW08 body shape that you were able to get a better ear tip depth, and seal than the MW07?
> ...


I would not recommend the MW08 (regular or Sport). I've got an old pair of MW07+ and really enjoyed them back in their day. They have been incredibly solid and reliable, and I still use them for bike riding, skiing, podcasts, etc. when sound quality is not the priority. Love the real buttons, as opposed to touch controls.  As erockg said, lots of modern earbuds sound better these days. I bought the MW08 Sport expecting a similar experience. Super buggy, limited app. Connection problems, constant issues. Dropped one on my floor from about 3 feet and the ceramic cracked ($350 sport earphones!) Then the right button stopped working. Figured I just got a bad pair, since everyone says they have such good build quality. Exchanged them and continue to have a terrible experience with the newer pair. Continue to be buggy and have connection issues. Multi-point is very unreliable. The latest is that I cannot turn on ANC (which sucks) or Ambient modes (decent), either through the app or buttons. I get an error message saying that both earphones need to be turned on for that to work. Tried factory reset and repairing with multiple devices, and with each other. If anyone knows a fix, please let me know!

I do enjoy their sound quality, but only with rather extensive EQ and tip rolling. They are a bassy, muddy mess otherwise. Just got the ATX-TWX9, which are much more precise and superior in almost every way. But I still like the warm sound of the MW08. But don't buy them unless you want constant problems.


----------



## harpdoc (Oct 18, 2022)

Add me to the fan club of the ATX-TWX9. Arrived yesterday from Amazon.jp. Wow! They sound incredible, with such clarity, balance, speed, precision, and a lovely soundstage. I haven't done a direct comparison with my other TWS's other than MW08 (see above), but when I do it will probably be no contest (I'm in the honeymoon phase, of course, so time will tell). The default EQ sounds great and I've created a couple of my own EQ settings also. I will say that if you're a total basshead or prefer a warm, comforting, smeary/imprecise sound, these may not be for you. So far, they sound good with anything I've played--Pink Floyd's The Wall was delicious!

As for features/controls, for the most part, I really like them. These are my first pair with Google fast-pairing (or Snapdragon or whatever it is) and it's cool to have them pair so instantly. I find them comfortable with the long-stems and they are secure in-ear. For the first time ever, may not do any tip-rolling. ANC is plenty solid for me, Ambient is good. Played some Asphault 9 with the low-latency mode and they were good. I've only played them with a Samsung phone, so only regular Apt-X so far. When I have time, I'll drag out the Creative BT-W4 adapter and see how they sound with Apt-X adaptive. Connection so far seems solid. I like the hybrid button/touch setup, although I wish the app gave you more options to customize them. Haven't tried them outdoors yet, so don't know about wind.

All of that said, despite one firmware update, things are still somewhat buggy. Some of the buttons stopped working for some or all functions. Re-pairing didn't entirely fix it. Long-pressing the left button to turn the earbud off, then long-pressing to turn back on, seems to have fixed it for now. Time will tell.


----------



## xSDMx

@DigDub @dweaver Any tip rolling recommendations for folks with the PBPs? I tried them again with the recent Amazon sale. Due to the stubby nozzle, stock tips still definitely don't work at all for me. I tried the CP1025 + CPA2 and it makes the PBPs useable (due to the CPA2 nozzle extension), but not perfect. CP360 don't work as they smash into the housing. Someone said CP500 work well, but I would think they'd have the same issue as the CP360s. Ideally the tips would have an inner nozzle longer than the outer tip.


----------



## MaxwellDemon

Some more observations about using my ATH-TWX9 -- the case is MUCH smaller than I originally thought it would be. For some reason, I thought it'd be massive! Another thing I got lucky with is that I recently received my custom silicon tips that are actually made for my Phonix... but it turned out to fit perfectly for this too. So I am able to include that in the mix of tips to try.

I have yet to try the ANC other than at home. So I'll report back once I get a chance to commute with it tomorrow!

Initial impressions notes:

These are indeed REALLY good for their price, considering! I went from my Vision Ears Phonix to see how big of the difference is and I think I'd be very happy to have these boys on-the-go when I am not able to bring my full IEM setup with me.
The thudding noise while I am walking is unreal and a negative, unfortunately. Definitely not something you can take out for a jog -- even when I was using my custom silicon tips, the thud was heavily reduced but still present. Choosing tips ended up trying to choose the one that would reduce this the most when I am not using my custom tips. Sadly my custom tips _do not_ fit in the charging case, so I can't just leave it on the ATH-TWX9.
Otherwise, very comfortable to wear around and I had no issue with its connectivity -- whether it is connecting to my PC and phone at the same time and controlling all the required settings for it. Was very seamless experience on my end.
I have also been comparing the TWX9 to some of my other options. I, unfortunately, do not own any of the newer high-performing TWS options like the Bose QC2 or the Beoplay EX, so this is just me exploring what I currently have for fun. Some of them are old but still technically impressive earphones, some of them are cheap and some of them are current TOTL stuff. Just for my own curiosity to see where ATH-TWX9 will place in. Currently from my impression, ATH-TWX9 ranks very highly for me. Great, great-value earphones considering!


----------



## gabriely (Oct 18, 2022)

After trying all the Azla TWS eartips on my Beoplay EX - I think my favourite tips on these are easily the Azla Max.

The stock eartips come in second, followed by Crystals and Xelastec. I think the super sticky/grippy tips make the buds a tad uncomfortable for me, whereas with the Max (and to a lesser degree, the stock tips) I can just leave the things in my ears until the battery dies without thinking too much about them. The fit's extremely secure for me anyway, got hit by a bike running the red light and both buds were still in my ears after I got knocked to the ground hahahaha

I know I could and should try the CP360s, but I'll enjoy this first before I try to get my hands on those!


----------



## james444

nekonhime said:


> New toy
> Sq is quite amazing without eq, vocal for female singer is good, bass is punchy and clean, instruments separation is there but a bit lacking in my opinion, the volume is really low as I have to crank up to 100% to hear or my buds are faulty?
> Anc is kinda trash



Read the manual on how to adjust the device volume. The JVCs can go earsplittingly loud.
https://manual3.jvckenwood.com/accessory/headphones/contents/ha-fw1000t/en/BONDSYqspuntdu.php

Also, read this post on how ANC makes them sound more neutral and clearer:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/goi...e-we-there-yet.861024/page-2968#post-16923205


----------



## nekonhime

james444 said:


> Read the manual on how to adjust the device volume. The JVCs can go earsplittingly loud.
> https://manual3.jvckenwood.com/accessory/headphones/contents/ha-fw1000t/en/BONDSYqspuntdu.php
> 
> Also, read this post on how ANC makes them sound more neutral and clearer:
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/goi...e-we-there-yet.861024/page-2968#post-16923205


I tried the volume one yesterday already and it still quite the same?
Also, what app are you using for eq?


----------



## james444

nekonhime said:


> I tried the volume one yesterday already and it still quite the same?
> Also, what app are you using for eq?



Wait, the volume on yours doesn't increase if you triple-tap the left earpiece? Note that you have to do this repeatedly to push them to really high levels.

I just use the parametric EQ in Neutron Player. It's not a system-wide EQ, but since I mostly use Neutron for listening, it's sufficient for my needs.


----------



## dweaver

OK, maybe solved the charging issue on the L3P.

Using these on my walk and train ride and I am starting to warm up to these. The EQ is really good. They were a bit sibilant after my ID test which cranked up the treble regions due to hearing loss. Have not found a custom setting I like quite yet but will keep fiddling around.

I can see them maybe being to hot for younger ears or certain genres. But so far these are growing on me for Jazz and classic rock. Cymbals have a bit of brashness or metallic edge to them but are very vivid. This can be good or bad depending on if you like it or not or you find it distracting.

At $120 they are great bargain.

ANC is slightly behind the GB2P and Sony Linkbuds S but the wind reducer works pretty good and they are decent once music is playing. Note I have been unable to run the ANC detect thing as my environments are either to loud or to quiet for it to run. Will see if the ANC is any different when I can finally run that setting.


----------



## MisterMonsieur (Oct 19, 2022)

Just tested the Galaxy Buds 2 ( not pro) and Final Ze3000. Had the Z7 last weekend here and I've been using the Galaxy Buds Pro 2 for a year.
The Z7 can't compete with all these buds at all. Bloated, muddy bass which drown the mids and let vocals appear super distand and quiet. The treble is also very very soft, you almost don't hear cymbal sounds. As I've heard great stuff about the Tevi (renamed to Z3), I am very disappointed.
I had the Prophile 8 Inear for quite a while and loved the UERM, Blessing 2 impressed me a lot too.. just for reference what I like.

Fit
Buds 2 >= Final Ze3000 > Buds pro. The latters gets quite umconfortable, even though there is no pressure build up with these. Buds 2 fits like a glove for me, Final ZE3000 is also very comfortable.

Soundstage size Final ZE3000 > Buds Pro > Buds 2. Final ZE3000 is by far the widest sounding, imagine is on par with Buds Pro. Buds 2 loses in both and can sound congested with busy tracks.

ZE3000 has a warm and safe tuning, it is really relaxing with nothing really standing out. It has more midbass than subbass, missing the rumble from the Samsungs. I kind of miss that, but a good clean midbass like the ZE3000 is very fun too.
I love the engaging tuning of the Buds 2, it sounds forward with a very pleasing tuning if it wasn't for the treble. I can get sibiliant.. which is a shame, I really like them otherwise. Going to do some tip rolling and if it doesn't get better I am going to send them back..., for now the ZE3000 impresses me the most. I am probably going to get my hands
on the Buds Pro 2 for the final battle. =)

Source: Realme GT Master, Ipad Mini6. Both with aac codec.


----------



## Ghisy (Oct 18, 2022)

Hi there,

@MisterMonsieur, it's funny, I just got the Final ZE3000 after reading a lot of reviews. I hope I will not be disappointed with their bass response (I love some extra oomph in my IEMs). It's my first set of TWS. I love wired but I thought I'd give these a try since I got them on the cheap.

I also wanted to try the Noble Audio FoKus Pro but they're nowherere to be found in Europe (minus the UK and Switzerland). They're already expensive so I don't wanna risk adding customs' fees on top.


----------



## dweaver

xSDMx said:


> @DigDub @dweaver Any tip rolling recommendations for folks with the PBPs? I tried them again with the recent Amazon sale. Due to the stubby nozzle, stock tips still definitely don't work at all for me. I tried the CP1025 + CPA2 and it makes the PBPs useable (due to the CPA2 nozzle extension), but not perfect. CP360 don't work as they smash into the housing. Someone said CP500 work well, but I would think they'd have the same issue as the CP360s. Ideally the tips would have an inner nozzle longer than the outer tip.


I tried the tips from the Soundcore L3P and the did not fit at all. I wonder if Spinfit might have a longer tip option the 360CP I actually prefer shallow fit tips so am happy withe default tips. I have a bunch of Fiio tips at home, let me see if they will work. I will post back later tonight. I did find I could get the Sony Hybrid tips on my pair but they do have the potential to pop off so probably not a good option.


----------



## xSDMx

dweaver said:


> I tried the tips from the Soundcore L3P and the did not fit at all. I wonder if Spinfit might have a longer tip option the 360CP I actually prefer shallow fit tips so am happy withe default tips. I have a bunch of Fiio tips at home, let me see if they will work. I will post back later tonight. I did find I could get the Sony Hybrid tips on my pair but they do have the potential to pop off so probably not a good option.



Awesome. Thanks, @dweaver ! Definitely would love to find a longer silicone tip that fits well in the case without needing the Spinfit adapter. Looking forward to your findings! Issue I had with the CP 360 was it sat too close to the housing body vs the CP1025 + CPA2.


----------



## MisterMonsieur

Ghisy said:


> Hi there,
> 
> @MisterMonsieur, it's funny, I just got the Final ZE3000 after reading a lot of reviews. I hope I will not be disappointed with their bass response (I love some extra oomph in my IEMs). It's my first set of TWS. I love wired but I thought I'd give these a try since I got them on the cheap.
> 
> I also wanted to try the Noble Audio FoKus Pro but they're nowherere to be found in Europe (minus the UK and Switzerland). They're already expensive so I don't wanna risk adding customs' fees on top.


I was on the fence with the Ze3000 since they are so bare bones and miss a lot of features of the competition. But I'm glad I gave them a try in the end.

Hmm depends which IEM's you are coming from. It definitely misses the oomph from the harman-curve tuned IEM's, but the bass a really good kick to it and nice definition.
I've had further listening to it. It is double the price of the Buds 2 right now, but it also sounds much more refined. I really can't find any faults... it might sound a little bit damped compared to my Galaxy Buds pro, but it works very well for the ZE3000 since the treble is very present yet remains inoffensive.
The build quality is superb, the material definitely feels like my Sony A7iii camera.


----------



## sgtbilko

dweaver said:


> OK, maybe solved the charging issue on the L3P.
> 
> Using these on my walk and train ride and I am starting to warm up to these. The EQ is really good. They were a bit sibilant after my ID test which cranked up the treble regions due to hearing loss. Have not found a custom setting I like quite yet but will keep fiddling around.
> 
> ...


I had the exact same issue. I went into the custom setting of Hear ID and dialled down the treble several DB and now they sound close to my iems. Gotta hand it to the Anker app. really lets you change everything.


----------



## sgtbilko

dweaver said:


> I tried the tips from the Soundcore L3P and the did not fit at all. I wonder if Spinfit might have a longer tip option the 360CP I actually prefer shallow fit tips so am happy withe default tips. I have a bunch of Fiio tips at home, let me see if they will work. I will post back later tonight. I did find I could get the Sony Hybrid tips on my pair but they do have the potential to pop off so probably not a good option.


I've ended up using an old pair of RHA tips I had lying about to get a better seal. They just about fit in the case.

My only ongoing issue is that none of the wings stay on my ear, eventually hanging in free air - yet the seal from the tips stays good.


----------



## harpdoc

harpdoc said:


> Add me to the fan club of the ATX-TWX9. Arrived yesterday from Amazon.jp. Wow! They sound incredible, with such clarity, balance, speed, precision, and a lovely soundstage. I haven't done a direct comparison with my other TWS's other than MW08 (see above), but when I do it will probably be no contest (I'm in the honeymoon phase, of course, so time will tell). The default EQ sounds great and I've created a couple of my own EQ settings also. I will say that if you're a total basshead or prefer a warm, comforting, smeary/imprecise sound, these may not be for you. So far, they sound good with anything I've played--Pink Floyd's The Wall was delicious!
> 
> As for features/controls, for the most part, I really like them. These are my first pair with Google fast-pairing (or Snapdragon or whatever it is) and it's cool to have them pair so instantly. I find them comfortable with the long-stems and they are secure in-ear. For the first time ever, may not do any tip-rolling. ANC is plenty solid for me, Ambient is good. Played some Asphault 9 with the low-latency mode and they were good. I've only played them with a Samsung phone, so only regular Apt-X so far. When I have time, I'll drag out the Creative BT-W4 adapter and see how they sound with Apt-X adaptive. Connection so far seems solid. I like the hybrid button/touch setup, although I wish the app gave you more options to customize them. Haven't tried them outdoors yet, so don't know about wind.
> 
> All of that said, despite one firmware update, things are still somewhat buggy. Some of the buttons stopped working for some or all functions. Re-pairing didn't entirely fix it. Long-pressing the left button to turn the earbud off, then long-pressing to turn back on, seems to have fixed it for now. Time will tell.


After further testing, I realize that the touch controls and most of the button commands do not work EVERY time I take them out of the case. Factory reset did not solve it. The work-around that always works is to turn both earphones off with a long-press of the mechanical buttons, then turn them on the same way. It is obviously a software/firmware issue since the buttons operate after the work-around.

Am I the only one having this issue with the TSX9?


----------



## cresny

harpdoc said:


> After further testing, I realize that the touch controls and most of the button commands do not work EVERY time I take them out of the case. Factory reset did not solve it. The work-around that always works is to turn both earphones off with a long-press of the mechanical buttons, then turn them on the same way. It is obviously a software/firmware issue since the buttons operate after the work-around.
> 
> Am I the only one having this issue with the TSX9?


Did you try switching the controls around in settings? I recall my buttons not doing what I expected at very first, but now all is ok -- I don't remember how I got there though.


----------



## nekonhime

james444 said:


> Wait, the volume on yours doesn't increase if you triple-tap the left earpiece? Note that you have to do this repeatedly to push them to really high levels.
> 
> I just use the parametric EQ in Neutron Player. It's not a system-wide EQ, but since I mostly use Neutron for listening, it's sufficient for my needs.


Yep, I cranked them to max, but I still need them to be like 80/100 to hear the full sound 
Can you help me to eq with this?


----------



## Bobbetybob

Anyone tried out the equaliser on the Pixel Buds Pro? I've got a free pair coming at some point as a preorder bonus for the Pixel 7 but not sure if I'm going to keep them or just sell them straight on. I really like the A Series buds, they're pocketable, fit nicely and have a surprisingly flat sound for a mainsteam product. But from what I've read the Pro have a more V Shaped sound and they don't look as comfortable. I'm wondering if the EQ can actually eek out something nicer sounding and peoples thoughts on the fit of the buds?


----------



## xSDMx

Bobbetybob said:


> Anyone tried out the equaliser on the Pixel Buds Pro? I've got a free pair coming at some point as a preorder bonus for the Pixel 7 but not sure if I'm going to keep them or just sell them straight on. I really like the A Series buds, they're pocketable, fit nicely and have a surprisingly flat sound for a mainsteam product. But from what I've read the Pro have a more V Shaped sound and they don't look as comfortable. I'm wondering if the EQ can actually eek out something nicer sounding and peoples thoughts on the fit of the buds?


EQ is decent and the presets are OK. I just got the new 3.14 FW. Stock sound signature is OK, definitely a bit bass boosted but not ridiculous IMHO. Volume is a bit low. Fit is a BIG concern because the housing is pretty bulbous and the nozzle super stubby, so for some folks won't seat in the ear canal without a long tip like the Spinfit CP1025 + CPA2 (hence me asking folks what tips they've tried). I don't want to understate this concern: I literally cannot fit them in my ears with the stock tips, I need the CPA2 to use them at all. I like the egg case on the PBP better than the case on the PB2 or PBa. It's slightly wider, but thinner and flatter. Super pocketable.


----------



## Blueshound24

erockg said:


> You don't have to join Amazon Prime in Japan to get them.  I ordered them without Prime from them.



I intend to wait until they're released here. But just curious, did you have them shipped to the USA from Amazon in Japan, and if so, how much was shipping? Any idea what return shipping would be?


----------



## BooleanBones

Blueshound24 said:


> I intend to wait until they're released here. But just curious, did you have them shipped to the USA from Amazon in Japan, and if so, how much was shipping? Any idea what return shipping would be?


Coming here is not bad, it's the going back that not realistic as you have to use DHL. If you just don't like them, you can flip them like was mentioned. The key is if something is broken and it's not serviced here for whatever reason. Probably not likely, but it happens. Think DHL quoted me something like 80$ to send some TWS back to Amazon JP


----------



## Fleeple

nekonhime said:


> New toy
> Sq is quite amazing without eq, vocal for female singer is good, bass is punchy and clean, instruments separation is there but a bit lacking in my opinion, the volume is really low as I have to crank up to 100% to hear or my buds are faulty?
> Anc is kinda trash


I remember them just being that way; very soothing sound, but the fit was awful (personally) and you did need them to be up pretty much above 80


----------



## Fleeple

nekonhime said:


> New toy
> Sq is quite amazing without eq, vocal for female singer is good, bass is punchy and clean, instruments separation is there but a bit lacking in my opinion, the volume is really low as I have to crank up to 100% to hear or my buds are faulty?
> Anc is kinda trash


I remember them just being that way; very soothing sound, but the fit was awful (personally) and you did need them to be up pretty much above 80


----------



## Fleeple

How does one delete a post 😅


----------



## nekonhime

Fleeple said:


> I remember them just being that way; very soothing sound, but the fit was awful (personally) and you did need them to be up pretty much above 80


Now I can use them with about 70-80/100 lol. Their fit isn't that bad, I have to get used to it, but they have a feeling that they will fall if I run


----------



## dweaver

Budget wise the L3P are pretty damn amazing. They compete with the GB2P and Linkbuds S both which cost more than twice the price and arguably have as good or better feature set especially regarding controls and in the equalizer.

But if the GB2P works for you with it's default signature or the limited presets it gives, it definitely is a good sounding TWS. I think while the L3P sound more detailed in some ways and more exciting, the GB2P is more balanced and refined sounding.

I think both L3P and GB2P best the Linkbuds S sonically by a good margin.

Knowing what I know now, I would buy the L3P if I wanted a great TWS but needed to reign in the cost. I think they have a more consumer friendly signature and great features usually only found in kish more expensive TWS.

I would buy the GB2P if I wanted something that works really well with a newer Samsung device and cost was not a big concern. They have a great audiophile type signature and when you use the dynamic EQ preset have a signature very similar to the L3P so have a preset that offers a good consumer friendly sound.

I would only buy the Linkbuds S if I really needed ANC to be closer to the best available and preferred a relaxed warm sound with muted treble.

I do find the Linkbuds S and GB2P to be more comfortable though but not by a huge margin. They both are much lower profile and work better sleeping though.

I had to switch to the largest wings on the L3P tonight. Just were to loose throughout the day.


----------



## erockg

Blueshound24 said:


> I intend to wait until they're released here. But just curious, did you have them shipped to the USA from Amazon in Japan, and if so, how much was shipping? Any idea what return shipping would be?


$225 all in.  I paid extra for expedited.  


Item(s) Subtotal:​￥ 29,864​Shipping & Handling:​￥ 2,749​

No idea about return shipping.  I don't plan on ever returning them.  They're great!


----------



## dweaver (Oct 19, 2022)

xSDMx said:


> Awesome. Thanks, @dweaver ! Definitely would love to find a longer silicone tip that fits well in the case without needing the Spinfit adapter. Looking forward to your findings! Issue I had with the CP 360 was it sat too close to the housing body vs the CP1025 + CPA2.


Fiio tips did not work but I tried some AKG tupes I had from am N200 model and they work mostly. I say mostly because unless the tip is a lip right on the end of the tip stem to hook on the TWS that are reliant on that super short stem of the TWS. These tips are pretty stiff so they offer some grip on the TWS. They are massive bulb type tips too so actually open up the sound quite a bit. Might try them for the next couple of days.

Edit: scratch this tip as an option. Tip stuck in my ear after 2nd insertion and would not fit the case when on.


----------



## nekonhime

erockg said:


> $225 all in.  I paid extra for expedited.
> 
> 
> Item(s) Subtotal:​￥ 29,864​Shipping & Handling:​￥ 2,749​
> ...


Where did you find the option for 29,864? I only see 30k


----------



## dweaver (Oct 19, 2022)

Juturna said:


> Wow, I can't imagine how good the GBP2Pros must sound if they're better than the Liberty 3 Pro's... Honestly, I keep getting blown away by the Liberty 3 Pro more and more each day. The sound is so insanely holographic to me that I swear that I'm listening to over-ear headphones sometimes. The clarity phenomenal, the bass can be tamed to very good levels as well, and I feel like these silver ones I have now have a leaner bass response (in a good way) in comparison to the white pair I had before. It rumbles with the best of them when needed, but it's not always slightly too bloated and fat like I felt my previous L3P's were.
> 
> Also huh, I also had issues with the left earbud on my old pair of L3P's, but then it was mostly due to the contacts on both the buds and the case being extremely sensitive towards muck building up on them. Like it could literally be stuff that you couldn't see with your eyes and it wouldn't charge, but if I just made sure I cleaned both the contacts and the pins in the case before putting them in. It was super annoying because it happened often... and it would seem like it was charging but I needed to open the case several times to see if the left earbuds actually did the whole "blinking" that they do when they charge.


Having used both pairs back and forth all day they both sound awesome and for the price of the L3P they simply kick butt. The L3P has more treble edge and detail for cymbals which is great with Jazz and some rock but a bit over cooked for some harder rock.

The GP2P on the other hand is a bit softer on cymbals while having more grit and crunch for guitars, so better for harder rock and OK for Jazz but missing that extra bit of detail of the L3P.

Both have deep bass with the L3P being a bit over cooked in my default Hear ID profile but can easily be tamed. The GB2P is the opposite being damn close to perfect on the default setting and can be warmed up and heavier by using the dynamic setting.

Songs by Hans Zimmer can both sound a bit better on the L3P as it has slightly bigger sub-bass. 

I find the GB2P to be the more balanced model so works better with a wider variety of music.

But the L3P probably can be tweaked via EQ to do most of what I like about the GB2P. So think of the GB2P as the model for the audiophile who doesn't want to have to tinker much especially if they own a Ssung phone that unleasg the 24 bit Samsung codec.

The L3P on the other hand is like what Android phone started out as. A great value that can be mined and turned into something special with effort.

I honestly may end up keeping both for that very reason.

The Linkbuds S may end up on the chopping block...


----------



## nekonhime

It seem like my brain have registered the ha-fw1000t. It have a good tonality for classical music. It nailed the 4 season, devil sonata and moonlight sonata, as it made my skin crawled and my brain go full on excitement mode. 
The most disappointing thing about this is the lack of app support and the anc? ( I cranked the volume high so it doesn't matter much)


----------



## MaxwellDemon

Quick update as I continue to give the TWX9 a nice go-around. An absolute joy to commute with! It was very windy today and the ANC (using its calibrated mode) blocked out most of it AND the train noise when I got to the underground stations. Interestingly, I can still hear a bit of the train announcements, but I noticed in the app they have a little function to let voices come through among the noises.


----------



## erockg

nekonhime said:


> Where did you find the option for 29,864? I only see 30k


Amazon prices fluctuate.  It was that price when I ordered a few weeks ago.


----------



## nekonhime

erockg said:


> Amazon prices fluctuate.  It was that price when I ordered a few weeks ago.


Seem like I missed that deal. Thank you


----------



## J_3000

erockg said:


> $225 all in.  I paid extra for expedited.
> 
> 
> Item(s) Subtotal:​￥ 29,864​Shipping & Handling:​￥ 2,749​
> ...


There were no customs fees?


----------



## Juturna

dweaver said:


> OK, maybe solved the charging issue on the L3P.
> 
> Using these on my walk and train ride and I am starting to warm up to these. The EQ is really good. They were a bit sibilant after my ID test which cranked up the treble regions due to hearing loss. Have not found a custom setting I like quite yet but will keep fiddling around.
> 
> ...


I would say that what made my L3Ps sound good is running both a custom EQ in the app as well as using Wavelet. Like it's probably overly complicated for most and obviously impossible if you use an iPhone, but totally, totally worth it in my opinion to make it sound the way I want it to. 
I think they're also really great for pop and electronic music, would say that jazz and rock is the music they shine the least on to me, but they still sound great with most if not all genres. 
Like the stock tuning is absolutely a hot mess, but the way they respond to EQ is really magical. 

ANC is totally not their strong suit though, I find them weaker than the original GBPs as well by quite a bit, but I think that's because I get a GREAT seal with the GBPs. I haven't tried any other tips than the ones that come with the earbuds however so I might improve on the ANC if I get better noise isolation.
I don't like how I can actually hear traffic zooming by if i'm walking next to a road even when listening on somewhat loud volume levels (65-70%-ish), but it's not a huge deal.


----------



## Juturna

MisterMonsieur said:


> Just tested the Galaxy Buds 2 ( not pro) and Final Ze3000. Had the Z7 last weekend here and I've been using the Galaxy Buds Pro 2 for a year.
> The Z7 can't compete with all these buds at all. Bloated, muddy bass which drown the mids and let vocals appear super distand and quiet. The treble is also very very soft, you almost don't hear cymbal sounds. As I've heard great stuff about the Tevi (renamed to Z3), I am very disappointed.
> I had the Prophile 8 Inear for quite a while and loved the UERM, Blessing 2 impressed me a lot too.. just for reference what I like.
> 
> ...


I don't think you've had the Galaxy Buds Pro 2 for a year unless you somehow work for Samsung  (they came out like a couple of weeks ago?) 


Ghisy said:


> Hi there,
> 
> @MisterMonsieur, it's funny, I just got the Final ZE3000 after reading a lot of reviews. I hope I will not be disappointed with their bass response (I love some extra oomph in my IEMs). It's my first set of TWS. I love wired but I thought I'd give these a try since I got them on the cheap.
> 
> I also wanted to try the Noble Audio FoKus Pro but they're nowherere to be found in Europe (minus the UK and Switzerland). They're already expensive so I don't wanna risk adding customs' fees on top.


They really are too goddamn expensive to get here in the EU, it adds up to about $400 and that's without shipping even, it's way too high of a price for me to dare "take a chance" on them being as good as everybody says (and also, just being good doesn't equate to me liking them since sound is also a matter of personal preference), especially when they're also lacking a bit in features outside of the sound. 
I wish I could try them first and then I MIGHT pay that kind of money for them.


----------



## MisterMonsieur

Oh, I edited it out. Was comparing them to the 1st gen pro


----------



## Ghisy

Juturna said:


> They really are too goddamn expensive to get here in the EU, it adds up to about $400 and that's without shipping even, it's way too high of a price for me to dare "take a chance" on them being as good as everybody says (and also, just being good doesn't equate to me liking them since sound is also a matter of personal preference), especially when they're also lacking a bit in features outside of the sound.
> I wish I could try them first and then I MIGHT pay that kind of money for them.


Oh I absolutely agree. They end up being more than $400 actually, it's way too expensive for TWS IMO.

I've bought a few wired IEMs blind and I was never really disappointed. But with TWS, I wouldn't take the chance. I'm gonna get the Final ZE3000 in a few days and they're my first pair of TWS.  They were cheap enough (used but like new) to be bought without trying them first.


----------



## FYLegend

Juturna said:


> I would say that what made my L3Ps sound good is running both a custom EQ in the app as well as using Wavelet. Like it's probably overly complicated for most and obviously impossible if you use an iPhone, but totally, totally worth it in my opinion to make it sound the way I want it to.
> I think they're also really great for pop and electronic music, would say that jazz and rock is the music they shine the least on to me, but they still sound great with most if not all genres.
> Like the stock tuning is absolutely a hot mess, but the way they respond to EQ is really magical.
> 
> ...


Odd as it has been the opposite exprience for me with Wavelet. While it works fine for most tracks, there are certain situations where it clips. I have two different Liberty 3 Pro's (an older Silver one and a newer Purple I bought as a backup pair) and they both have this problem. The in app-EQ is decent for quick adjustments but seems to apply a limiter to minimize clipping and consequently lacks the versatility of a third-party EQ. 

What I find a bit odd is that the two L3P have different tunings, my newer Purple unit is a tad warmer while the Silver one is somewhat hot in the treble. Again it might be down to how I cleaned the nozzles, and a difference in eartips. I have the same-sized eartips on both, but noticed a difference in quality - the newer one has somewhat more sturdy eartips that don't flip backwards so easily when I yank them out of my ears too quickly.


----------



## erockg

J_3000 said:


> There were no customs fees?


Unsure.  I was charged the $225 usd and above was the breakdown in Yen, so maybe it was incorporated in the price.


----------



## james444

nekonhime said:


> Yep, I cranked them to max, but I still need them to be like 80/100 to hear the full sound
> Can you help me to eq with this?



Well, I don't know this particular equalizer, but my settings would probably be something like this: 2 -2 -1 0 0 0 -4 0 2 4. 

Boost the subbass, lower the midbass, sharply reduce 4K and boost high treble.


----------



## subguy812

Order Summary​Item(s) Subtotal:
USD 206.17
Shipping & Handling:
USD 19.57

Total:
USD 225.74

Grand Total:
USD 225.74

This is what I paid for the TWX9 and there were no additional fees.


----------



## MisterMonsieur (Oct 19, 2022)

Further listening impressions of the ZE3000 compared to the Buds Pro 1st Gen.
The BP1 is an easier listening, I just woke up today with not much sleep and immediately listened to the ZE3000. The treble felt a bit fatiguating ( it is smooth tho, just boosted), whereas I could always listen to the Buds Pro at any time of the day, in any state.
Now after 2 cups of coffee listening to the ZE3000 sounds kinda relaxing, the treble is still very present but as I said, it is smooth. Went for a walk with them, passive noise isolation is very nice for a tws and could barely hear wind noise.
Mids are warmer on the Buds Pro , there is some bass bloat into the mids but it works well IMO and only colors the mids slightly. Mids on the ZE3000 feal pretty "natural", neither warm nor cold.
I don't really like ANC, in sum the ZE3000 are keepers for me and will replace my Buds Pro for casual listening at home and on the go, the Pro due to comfort issues after an extended time will be my gym bud. 

Oh and I tried out the Momentum 4( headphone), it is super trashy sound with mushy and bloated bass leading to awkwardly colored mids. If the MTW 3 shares a similiar tuning, I will gladly pass on trying it.


----------



## cresny

erockg said:


> $225 all in.  I paid extra for expedited.
> 
> 
> Item(s) Subtotal:​￥ 29,864​Shipping & Handling:​￥ 2,749​
> ...


Definitely get expedited shipping. For the small difference, it's very much worth not waiting the extra week  But in case you don't, fwiw it does seem that UPS handles the US leg of the slow shipping.


----------



## pigeontree

nekonhime said:


> Seem like I missed that deal. Thank you


It’s about a 91 cent price difference, I wouldn’t sweat it.


J_3000 said:


> There were no customs fees?


If importing to the us you won’t pay customs fees under the $800 threshold.

Regarding returns, I am still dealing with returning my first faulty unit. DHL returned the shipment to me because I “don’t have privileges to ship dangerous goods”, eg: lithium batteries. I am unsure of whether they are charging me anything or if I’ll get a full refund, and Japan is still insisting that I ship DHL, though it seems impossible.

That said, I’ve already received the replacement and they are fantastic. But even returning with the promise of reimbursement is proving to be very challenging.


----------



## dleblanc343

MaxwellDemon said:


> Quick update as I continue to give the TWX9 a nice go-around. An absolute joy to commute with! It was very windy today and the ANC (using its calibrated mode) blocked out most of it AND the train noise when I got to the underground stations. Interestingly, I can still hear a bit of the train announcements, but I noticed in the app they have a little function to let voices come through among the noises.


Here's one of my most used functions with TWX9 for quick hear-through - it's super practical.

A triple click on the left stem (so long as you didn't re-map controls) will instantly activate hear-through, and will stay on this function until any command is pressed to deactivate it.


Whenever I'm needing to address someone or make a morning coffee order at restaurant counter, I do the left stem triple click, and once I'm done with the hear through I click or tap the touch sensitive logo and it immediately returns to my music.


----------



## cresny

pigeontree said:


> It’s about a 91 cent price difference, I wouldn’t sweat it.
> 
> If importing to the us you won’t pay customs fees under the $800 threshold.
> 
> ...


What a pain! Just wondering though, is it because you have to declare the "lithium batteries"? I mean, what do they expect these days -- only ship stuff made out of wood?


----------



## zObiToz (Oct 19, 2022)

Hey guys, please recommend me a TWS with the same sound signature and same/better sound quality with Devialet Gemini.
I really love the sound of Gemini, excellent, deep bass, great high with spacious sound stage, I feel really relax with them. But the problem is I can’t get a good fit with it, I also don’t like it’s touch control and the short battery life.


----------



## C_Lindbergh

dleblanc343 said:


> Here's one of my most used functions with TWX9 for quick hear-through - it's super practical.
> 
> A triple click on the left stem (so long as you didn't re-map controls) will instantly activate hear-through, and will stay on this function until any command is pressed to deactivate it.
> 
> ...


Yeah, it still boggles my mind that many TWS still dont have any quick hear through option, even big players like Samsun...


----------



## BooleanBones

C_Lindbergh said:


> Yeah, it still boggles my mind that many TWS still dont have any quick hear through option, even big players like Samsun...


Main reason I keep my XM4s. They work great for me for their purpose.


----------



## DigDub

Do the Bose QC earbuds 2 support single bud usage? The user manual seems to suggest it does and a few reviews mentions it does too. But I remember a few members who bought them say they do not support single bud usage. Anyone has an answer?


----------



## howdy

DigDub said:


> Do the Bose QC earbuds 2 support single bud usage? The user manual seems to suggest it does and a few reviews mentions it does too. But I remember a few members who bought them say they do not support single bud usage. Anyone has an answer?


I've tried it and it does work, not great though.  You have to put in both buds close the lid then pull out the left ear bud. There is a update coming out to improve this.


----------



## logiatype

Pleasantly surprised by the Liberty 4. First Anker/Soundcore product I've tried and it's exactly what I was looking for. A little hot on the treble but useable for what I need it for.

Solid multipoint + decent mic for calls shouldn't be this hard to find in 2022.


----------



## Beh0lder

cresny said:


> What a pain! Just wondering though, is it because you have to declare the "lithium batteries"? I mean, what do they expect these days -- only ship stuff made out of wood?


Due to airline regulations, packages require a label with lithium battery warning. My shipment was returned once because I dared to print the label in black and white and not in color.


----------



## bladefd

erockg said:


> $225 all in.  I paid extra for expedited.
> 
> 
> Item(s) Subtotal:​￥ 29,864​Shipping & Handling:​￥ 2,749​
> ...





erockg said:


> $225 all in.  I paid extra for expedited.
> 
> 
> Item(s) Subtotal:​￥ 29,864​Shipping & Handling:​￥ 2,749​
> ...


Can you use them lying down or stem too big?


----------



## C_Lindbergh

bladefd said:


> Can you use them lying down or stem too big?


They stick out a bit too much for sleeping comfortamly with I'm afraid. At least for me


----------



## pigeontree (Oct 19, 2022)

cresny said:


> What a pain! Just wondering though, is it because you have to declare the "lithium batteries"? I mean, what do they expect these days -- only ship stuff made out of wood?


It’s such a pain! I couldn’t tell you why they make such a stink about it. I did declare the lithium contents, Amazon provided me with the lithium label to tape onto the box and the contents were fully declared.

I had an Amazon rep tell me yesterday that given the circumstances I could ship with another carrier, only for another rep to email me after and say that despite what I was told by the previous rep, I must ship DHL. I sort of have the feeling they may forgo me sending them back and just write it off as a loss. (Which lets be fair, after reimbursing me $130 for the DHL shipping for a broken product would be a loss anyway)


----------



## bladefd

C_Lindbergh said:


> They stick out a bit too much for sleeping comfortamly with I'm afraid. At least for me


...and the waiting game continues for a great pair of tws!


----------



## erockg

cresny said:


> Definitely get expedited shipping. For the small difference, it's very much worth not waiting the extra week  But in case you don't, fwiw it does seem that UPS handles the US leg of the slow shipping.


Yeah, I always expedite with Amazon Japan.  DHL arrives here in Los Angeles pretty quick!


----------



## erockg

bladefd said:


> Can you use them lying down or stem too big?


I have, but it's not the stem, it's that they stick out of my ears more than my GB2P or even Airpods Pro.  That said, it's not awful and it's doable.  GB2P for the win here imo.


----------



## pigeontree

Is there a way to get the ATH-TWX9 to remember my ANC preference? Every time I connect it resets to noise cancelling but my preference is to have that off.


----------



## harpdoc

cresny said:


> Did you try switching the controls around in settings? I recall my buttons not doing what I expected at very first, but now all is ok -- I don't remember how I got there though.


I did try that, but without success. That said, the last couple times I put them in, everything worked as it should. I've tried so many things by now, that I have no idea what worked, or if it will continue to work. I will say, even if I have to do the workaround, I'll still keep and use the TWX9's. I just love the sound of them. Soooo good


----------



## harpdoc

pigeontree said:


> Is there a way to get the ATH-TWX9 to remember my ANC preference? Every time I connect it resets to noise cancelling but my preference is to have that off.


Same for mine. Don't see a way to change it. Unlike most of my other tws earbuds, which sound best without anc off, I personally think these sound best with it on


----------



## pigeontree

harpdoc said:


> Same for mine. Don't see a way to change it. Unlike most of my other tws earbuds, which sound best without anc off, I personally think these sound best with it on


Damn that’s a bummer! They do sound better with anc, I agree, but my gf always complains that I can’t hear her lol


----------



## erockg

pigeontree said:


> Damn that’s a bummer! They do sound better with anc, I agree, but my gf always complains that I can’t hear her lol


In my experience, there are some benefits to that


----------



## DigDub

howdy said:


> I've tried it and it does work, not great though.  You have to put in both buds close the lid then pull out the left ear bud. There is a update coming out to improve this.


Thanks. Does it work for the right earbud as well?


----------



## dweaver

logiatype said:


> Pleasantly surprised by the Liberty 4. First Anker/Soundcore product I've tried and it's exactly what I was looking for. A little hot on the treble but useable for what I need it for.
> 
> Solid multipoint + decent mic for calls shouldn't be this hard to find in 2022.


I was tempted to get these instead of the Liberty 3 Pro. But with a really good lightning deal in Canada on the L3P and the Liberty 4 not being in Canada yet made my decision easier. I am also not a big fan of stem designed TWS. But may have try that model some day.

It also helped that I have the Galaxy Buds 2 Pro so have a dual dynamic driver TWS and I love the sound of that TWS.

The L3P from reading and use is also a  bit hot in the treble regions and is possibly heavier bass wise. Several reviewers suggest they like the L4 more, causing my hesitation. But so far I am enjoying the L3P so am satisfied.

Post more details on the L4 as it has not had much coverage yet


----------



## howdy

DigDub said:


> Thanks. Does it work for the right earbud as well?


Yes. The right is the one that works flawlessly,  the left is a bit wonky but will be fixed in a future update.  I've been using them together all the time and if I have the noise canceling on Aware I can here everything around me with no issues while the music is playing.


----------



## DigDub

howdy said:


> Yes. The right is the one that works flawlessly,  the left is a bit wonky but will be fixed in a future update.  I've been using them together all the time and if I have the noise canceling on Aware I can here everything around me with no issues while the music is playing.


Thanks. My wallet is thinking. 😄


----------



## aweBit

Can anyone vouch having used any 3rd party ear tips with the QC2’s? 

Either my ear canals + conchas are warped or interplanetary, or I just can’t seem to get comfortable for extended periods with the provided tips + fittings.

The smallest tips seem to fit the comfiest but it feels as though they sit too deep in my ear canals compared to the other two sizes, where the lower end frequencies are compromised due to the smaller space between my ear drum and drivers. 

Please let me know what combinations you personally found suited best for you! 😃


----------



## Juturna

dweaver said:


> I was tempted to get these instead of the Liberty 3 Pro. But with a really good lightning deal in Canada on the L3P and the Liberty 4 not being in Canada yet made my decision easier. I am also not a big fan of stem designed TWS. But may have try that model some day.
> 
> It also helped that I have the Galaxy Buds 2 Pro so have a dual dynamic driver TWS and I love the sound of that TWS.
> 
> ...


I'm also thinking about the L4's, but so far they haven't been released in Europe which is weird to me. Didn't realize they usually took this long between a US launch and EU launch, not even their own webstore has it yet. But I'm not about to order them from the US because I know it's just a matter of time and I don't want to pay the extra shipping either haha.


----------



## MaxwellDemon

Continuing my TWX9 notes and observations. I am finding myself VASTLY preferring the TWX9 over my CIEM UM Miracle. Which says a lot! UM Miracle, while old, is not a bad earphone, but the technology in the audio world has grown leaps and bounds since these earphones are considered TOTL (almost 9 years ago). As someone that came back to the game only very recently, it still astounds me that wireless earphones can now have an edge of a custom -- however old it is.


----------



## ekjellgren

MaxwellDemon said:


> Continuing my TWX9 notes and observations. I am finding myself VASTLY preferring the TWX9 over my CIEM UM Miracle. Which says a lot! UM Miracle, while old, is not a bad earphone, but the technology in the audio world has grown leaps and bounds since these earphones are considered TOTL (almost 9 years ago). As someone that came back to the game only very recently, it still astounds me that wireless earphones can now have an edge of a custom -- however old it is.


I guess this concludes the title of this thread then =)


----------



## Juturna

Lol it's frustrating when you get a new phone and your earbuds sound completely different on them and you don't have a clue how to make them sound the same as they did on the previous phone. 
My L3P's sound way more muddy and bassy even though I've used the same EQ settings in both the Soundcore app and in wavelet, and it also kinda sounds slightly more flat and lifeless in comparison to my previous phone (ironically since this is a better phone overall). 

The volume levels are also really frustrating where the third to last "notch" on the volume is too low, while the second to last is just a bit too loud. Usually I could listen to 60-75% volume on my previous phone, now it's like 80-90% which feels... not great!


----------



## jant71

New, sort of, 1More...


----------



## cresny

ekjellgren said:


> I guess this concludes the title of this thread then =)


You may be right about that. I'm no audio engineer, but it seems to me the DSP has taken over. In particular for the TWX9, there seems to be amazing synergy between the DSP and the single proprietary driver.


----------



## BooleanBones

@erockg Comfort wise, how do you and @subguy812 like the TWX9s compared the EX? comparable?


----------



## erockg

BooleanBones said:


> @erockg Comfort wise, how do you and @subguy812 like the TWX9s compared the EX? comparable?


Very similar for me.  The EX are larger.  Both fit great.  No pain or discomfort.


----------



## erockg

BooleanBones said:


> @erockg Comfort wise, how do you and @subguy812 like the TWX9s compared the EX? comparable?





erockg said:


> Very similar for me.  The EX are larger.  Both fit great.  No pain or discomfort.


Here are a few pics for comparison.


----------



## BooleanBones

erockg said:


> Here are a few pics for comparison.


Thanks bro!


----------



## subguy812

BooleanBones said:


> @erockg Comfort wise, how do you and @subguy812 like the TWX9s compared the EX? comparable?


Feel similar, the TWX9 sits a little lower in the ear. But they really feel close. Someone asked about laying down, it is a no-go for me. I remove one on the side I am laying on, which works fine for everything but music of course.


----------



## SynaestheticA

nekonhime said:


> For me, it just hard for me to return the earbuds back to japan if I don't like it


The convenience of Amazon returns (inconvenience of Japan Amazon returns) seems to be stopping a lot of people from purchasing these. 

Remember a time where you couldn't return everything, commit you commitment-phobes, live bravely!


----------



## Sptz

Phaethon said:


> I'm sorry! My bad! Stupid naming conventions. I haven't tried the Pixel Buds Pro yet (and it sounds like maybe I shouldn't!). I meant to say I'd been getting frustrated by the Galaxy Buds 2 Pro in the Apple universe. Great sound and fantastic on the LG V60 I keep as an ipod, but just awkward on the iPhone. I may keep the GB2P to see if I can find a way to get more out of them on my iPhone but right now, given the quality of the APP2, it doesn't seem worth the effort!



What's missing in iOS exactly? Apart from gimmicks like 360 audio?


----------



## mottykytu

How the Beoplay EQ (I owned) compare to Beoplay EX and TWX9? Many many thanks !


----------



## harpdoc

C_Lindbergh said:


> I have a similar problem, at times I gotts manually connect them... Also at some rare occasions the controllers stopped working.
> 
> Hope for a new software update soon...





C_Lindbergh said:


> I have a similar problem, at times I gotts manually connect them... Also at some rare occasions the controllers stopped working.
> 
> Hope for a new software update soon...


I've done a few factory resets and now find myself with this same problem with the twx9, where I have to use the app on the phone to reconnect each time I use them. Sounds like at least 3 if it's are dealing with this. I'm communicating with product support in Japan. I'll let you know if I get anywhere


----------



## cresny

TWX-9 listeners, do you find that you listen to these with a noticeably higher phone volume level? I'm not sure if it's just the dynamics of these or lower efficiency, but I am concerned that I'm listening at a volume level that might be too high. It does get to be too much and I need to take a break every now and then, but I'm liking it too much to turn it down.


----------



## nekonhime

SynaestheticA said:


> The convenience of Amazon returns (inconvenience of Japan Amazon returns) seems to be stopping a lot of people from purchasing these.
> 
> Remember a time where you couldn't return everything, commit you commitment-phobes, live bravely!


I will do it with antique, merchandises without battery or lithium components since every shop is kind strict about return item with battery.


----------



## Blueshound24

BooleanBones said:


> @erockg Comfort wise, how do you and @subguy812 like the TWX9s compared the EX? comparable?




I would also like to ask what their thoughts are on sound comparisons between the two, or is there one they reach for first? TIA


----------



## nekonhime

SynaestheticA said:


> The convenience of Amazon returns (inconvenience of Japan Amazon returns) seems to be stopping a lot of people from purchasing these.
> 
> Remember a time where you couldn't return everything, commit you commitment-phobes, live bravely!


I will do it with antique, merchandises without battery or lithium components since every shop is kind strict about return item with battery


----------



## MaxwellDemon

cresny said:


> TWX-9 listeners, do you find that you listen to these with a noticeably higher phone volume level? I'm not sure if it's just the dynamics of these or lower efficiency, but I am concerned that I'm listening at a volume level that might be too high. It does get to be too much and I need to take a break every now and then, but I'm liking it too much to turn it down.


Hmmm I can't say I have that issue personally, but I try to be very mindful when listening so I don't get fatigue (I often wear earphones for 6+ hours in a row). However, I can see that the loudness can make things so much better and it can get very addictive! This is definitely a thing I regularly do with the Phonix on the other hand. Just be careful with your hearing


----------



## webvan

Still impressed with the QCII for static use thanks to their stellar ANC but as soon as any speedy movement (or wind when you're walking) occurs I want to toss them away. ! Unless Bose finally come to their senses and offer a passive mode, or at the very least an mode that turns the outside microphones off, I won't be keeping them.


----------



## profusion

I just got by chance philips tat3217, does anyone have experience with them?


----------



## ekjellgren

Just sold off my Galaxy Buds Pro because of the bad fit in my ears. Should I go for the Buds 2 Pro or something else? How do the TWX9 compare to the GBP2?


----------



## xSDMx (Oct 22, 2022)

ekjellgren said:


> Just sold off my Galaxy Buds Pro because of the bad fit in my ears. Should I go for the Buds 2 Pro or something else? How do the TWX9 compare to the GBP2?



Sounds like we have similar ears. Avoid anything with a short nozzle and bulbous housing. Did you try using the CP1025 + CPA2 to extend the nozzle? Galaxy Buds Pro and the Google Pixel Buds Pro will be among the worst offenders. Buds 2 Pro, TWX9, and XM4 might not fit, but YMMV. XM4 was marginal fitment for me. Pixel Buds 2/A fit just fine. Using any negative profile IEM (ex. SE846) with a Bluetooth adapter fits perfectly.


----------



## chinmie

i just bought the Soundcore Life dot 3i (or A3i). I really like the form factor,  and the fact that it uses physical buttons. the ANC/ambient mode performance are quite good, and loving the battery life.

but the sound... my gosh the bass is too overwhelming, even more so than my old Tronsmart Apollo.. using all the preset EQ, even with bass boost off, the bass is still too unbearable.

i tried to cut the low bass on the EQ (100,200,400 hz) but the bass is still there in silly amount..

but then i found something weird and interesting: if i cut the 800 hz completely and raise the adjacent frequency even so slightly, the subwoover-y would just clean off gone.. 



i tried the same experiment with 400 hz, 1.6k, it also produce similar result. so in essence the EQ on the app works really weird and unpredictable. the good news is i can tweak it to reduce the bass more to my liking. 

this is my current setting for my set. still have ample bass yo watch movies and gaming, but not in the dizzying amount of the stock presets


----------



## dweaver

ekjellgren said:


> Just sold off my Galaxy Buds Pro because of the bad fit in my ears. Should I go for the Buds 2 Pro or something else? How do the TWX9 compare to the GBP2?


I was able to use the Galaxy Buds Pro but the default tips never worked me very well. So I always fiddled with after market tips which never fit because of the stupid nozzle design.

I now have the Galaxy Buds 2 Pro and they fit MUCH better. They also have a bit more normal nozzle so a few after market tips will fit as well such as the Spinfit 360.

I really like the Galaxy Bud 2 Pro, super comfy, better ANC, and in my opinion better sound. I prefer a shallow insertion over a deeper insertion for the tip.


----------



## Not so fat head

chinmie said:


> i just bought the Soundcore Life dot 3i (or A3i). I really like the form factor,  and the fact that it uses physical buttons. the ANC/ambient mode performance are quite good, and loving the battery life.
> 
> but the sound... my gosh the bass is too overwhelming, even more so than my old Tronsmart Apollo.. using all the preset EQ, even with bass boost off, the bass is still too unbearable.
> 
> ...


Ha!!!
That EQ sums it up....


----------



## harpdoc

Audio Technica didn't have any solutions other than having the latest firmware. They said I could return them to Amazon.jp. But I'm keeping these suckers. It's a minor hassle to connect them each time I use them, but after they connect, I'm finding them pretty much flawless. Sound is excellent, comfort is good, the button scheme is really good, ANC and ambient are solid, quick hear-through is very convenient, phone calls are good, low latency mode works, and I haven't had a single connection drop. Hopefully a firmware update will fix the one issue.


The only real issue is that my GF is getting irked because they're always in my ears. I guess that also qualifies as a connection issue...


----------



## Blueshound24

BooleanBones said:


> @erockg Comfort wise, how do you and @subguy812 like the TWX9s compared the EX? comparable?



Favorites are subjective, but which do you grab first for a good listen? TWX9 or EX?


----------



## subguy812

Blueshound24 said:


> Favorites are subjective, but which do you grab first for a good listen? TWX9 or EX?


Damn... I must say they are neck and neck with me. I do go for the TWX9 more than any other. I am losing nothing with the EX in sq, but gaining in ANC with TWX9


----------



## BooleanBones

subguy812 said:


> Damn... I must say they are neck and neck with me. I do go for the TWX9 more than any other. I am losing nothing with the EX in sq, but gaining in ANC with TWX9


.... except when you head to the pool


----------



## erockg

subguy812 said:


> Damn... I must say they are neck and neck with me. I do go for the TWX9 more than any other. I am losing nothing with the EX in sq, but gaining in ANC with TWX9





BooleanBones said:


> .... except when you head to the pool


Same here. TWX9 are still in the honeymoon phase, but I've have the EX since launch day, so I must still love them.


----------



## subguy812

BooleanBones said:


> .... except when you head to the pool


Yes...today I was at the pool and the EX were my companion


----------



## pigeontree

How do you get the key assignment to work in the AT app on the TWX9? It doesn't let me select any buttons to modify other than the right earbud to modify the settings. Besides that, the only bug I've experienced is sometimes the touch sensors aren't responsive, otherwise they have been flawless.


----------



## cresny

pigeontree said:


> How do you get the key assignment to work in the AT app on the TWX9? It doesn't let me select any buttons to modify other than the right earbud to modify the settings. Besides that, the only bug I've experienced is sometimes the touch sensors aren't responsive, otherwise they have been flawless.


The touch controls are my least favorite aspect of these. I dislike having to repeatedly bang against my eardrum to change modes. Hoping this gets better with firmware


----------



## mottykytu

Why people here talk too much about beoplay EX and TWX9 but not the Noble Fokus Pro for best TWR ???


----------



## nekonhime

mottykytu said:


> Why people here talk too much about beoplay EX and TWX9 but not the Noble Fokus Pro for best TWR ???


Sound is debatable and subjective 
EX and TWX9 have NC, better call quality, ipx57 and ipx4. They are more convenient to wear, better app for eq and most of all, they love the earbuds lol.


----------



## ac3knight

mottykytu said:


> Why people here talk too much about beoplay EX and TWX9 but not the Noble Fokus Pro for best TWR ???


I've tried the TWX9 and Noble Fokus Pro. The FoKus Pro is miles better in terms of sound quality (the driver setup can't be compared, it's a triple driver vs small-ish 5.8mm driver in the TWX9).

Howwever, the TWX9 has ANC (though not as good as the Bose QC II or APP2) and other features. 

I should point though that the passive isolation of the FoKus Pro is very good, given it's 3D printed housing covers the entire inner and outer ear canal (similar passive isolation to how the Jabra Elite pros fit).


----------



## mottykytu

nekonhime said:


> Sound is debatable and subjective
> EX and TWX9 have NC, better call quality, ipx57 and ipx4. They are more convenient to wear, better app for eq and most of all, they love the earbuds lol.


Some say fokus pro fit very well


----------



## beanoir78

I’ve a couple of pairs of TW earphones, neither really see much action and I think it’s because I can’t rely on them.  All too often I’ve jumped on the train in the morning to find they’re nearly out of juice and end up not being able to listen to them for the rest of the day.  

I can’t be bothered with yet another piece of equipment to have to remember to charge, particularly when the ones with wires sound better!


----------



## Aevum

anyone tried the Huawei freebuds pro 2 ? apparently their short battery life is due to having a dynamic + Micro planar driver inside.


----------



## webvan

ac3knight said:


> I've tried the TWX9 and Noble Fokus Pro. The FoKus Pro is miles better in terms of sound quality (the driver setup can't be compared, it's a triple driver vs small-ish 5.8mm driver in the TWX9).
> 
> Howwever, the TWX9 has ANC (though not as good as the Bose QC II or APP2) and other features.
> 
> I should point though that the passive isolation of the FoKus Pro is very good, given it's 3D printed housing covers the entire inner and outer ear canal (similar passive isolation to how the *Jabra Elite pros* fit).



Are you referring to the Jabra Elite 7s ?
I'm beyond annoyed at the QCII's lack of passive isolation so have been looking at other options. I must admit I stopped paying attention to the Jabra products after the 75s so I'm not sure how the 7 pros compare to the 85t's in terms of audio and ANC performance, can you share any pointers ? Thanks !


----------



## MaxwellDemon

mottykytu said:


> Some say fokus pro fit very well


On my part, the ANC is a huge driving factor for my love for the TWX9. Of course, I am probably an exception in this case because I have an old CIEM to throw into the UTWS5, so FoKus Pro just doesn't really hold an edge against that specifically. And yes... it's also the earbud form of not having something stuffed into my ear canals too deeply, all my IEMs already do that plenty enough. 😂

My two cents though -- I'd imagine that for some people pursuing sound quality and really enjoy that outer canal shell design, it'll likely tick all those boxes.


----------



## pigeontree (Oct 23, 2022)

Great news! As I sorta predicted, Amazon JP finally told me just to keep the faulty pair of TWX9 after my shipping fiasco with DHL.
I'm going to look at it as a win as now I have a backup charging case!


----------



## profusion

I need to buy a gift for a person, can you recommend me good TWS arround 100$ with good mic for calls? 
I'm a bit scared as he wares L tips (with traditional tips) he also tried yesterday a Philips TSW (TAT3217) and the L (largest one) did not had good fit with him....


----------



## Blueshound24 (Oct 23, 2022)

xSDMx said:


> Sounds like we have similar ears. Avoid anything with a short nozzle and bulbous housing. *Did you try using the CP1025 + CPA2 to extend the nozzle?* Galaxy Buds Pro and the Google Pixel Buds Pro will be among the worst offenders. Buds 2 Pro, TWX9, and XM4 might not fit, but YMMV. XM4 was marginal fitment for me. Pixel Buds 2/A fit just fine. Using any negative profile IEM (ex. SE846) with a Bluetooth adapter fits perfectly.



Wow! I had not heard of the CP1025 + CPA2! I wish there were something like that for the M&D MW07 and the Liberty 2 Pro! I struggled with their too shallow fit due to the housing shape and too short stem for these, so much I wanted to throw them out the window. I tried to think of a DIY solution similar to this that would extend the stem but gave up on it...


----------



## Blueshound24 (Oct 23, 2022)

In case anyone is interested the B & O Beoplay *EX gold tone is marked down to $319* on Amazon Prime. And the EX black is down to $353. I’m going to post this on the deals thread here as well, but I’ll wait a bit in case supply is low, so us TW junkies can have first dibs 

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B09VLD7C4M?


----------



## nekonhime

Blueshound24 said:


> In case anyone is interested the B & O Beoplay EX gold tone is marked down to $319 on Amazon Prime. And the EX black is down to $353. I’m going to post this on the deals thread here as well, but I’ll wait a bit in case supply is low, so us TW junkies can have first dibs
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/dp/B09VLD7C4M?


I will wait for the 200 mark


----------



## Blueshound24

nekonhime said:


> I will wait for the 200 mark



I was going to go for the one for $319. Has B&O been known to discount that much?


----------



## nekonhime

Blueshound24 said:


> I was going to go for the one for $319. Has B&O been known to discount that much?


Nope, even the eq is 294 right now.


----------



## Blueshound24

nekonhime said:


> Nope, even the eq is 294 right now.



It appears you'll be waiting a long time then.


----------



## erockg

mottykytu said:


> Why people here talk too much about beoplay EX and TWX9 but not the Noble Fokus Pro for best TWR ???


We've been talking about the NFP for most of 2022 on here.  Pages upon pages of rave reviews about them.  Present company included.


----------



## nekonhime

Blueshound24 said:


> It appears you'll be waiting a long time then.


Sadly yes, but I found the eq brand new back in the day for 225 then I lost them at the airport, so I will not give up lol :')


----------



## mottykytu

erockg said:


> We've been talking about the NFP for most of 2022 on here.  Pages upon pages of rave reviews about them.  Present company included.


How it is compare to the TWX9 ?


----------



## erockg

mottykytu said:


> How it is compare to the TWX9 ?


NFP for the win for exceptional sound.  TWX9 for _decent_ sound but a win for all other features as well.  I pick up the TWX9 way more.   Depends on your use case.


----------



## mottykytu

erockg said:


> NFP for the win for exceptional sound.  TWX9 for _decent_ sound but a win for all other features as well.  I pick up the TWX9 way more.   Depends on your use case.


May be wait for new NFP with features upgrade?

May I know why you pick TWX9 more over NFP please ? Thank yoh


----------



## erockg

mottykytu said:


> May be wait for new NFP with features upgrade?
> 
> May I know why you pick TWX9 more over NFP please ? Thank yoh


No news on a new NFP that I've heard of.  It's the best sounding Noble tws.

The TWX9 has ANC, transparency mode, wireless charging, they're smaller, better for calls, just to name a few reasons.

NFP has none of the above.  They're just made for close to audiophile sound.  And they succeed in that.  Also, the app only lets you EQ, nothing much more.

I sold my NFP buds while they still had good resale value.  I haven't missed them.


----------



## nekonhime

erockg said:


> No news on a new NFP that I've heard of.  It's the best sounding Noble tws.
> 
> The TWX9 has ANC, transparency mode, wireless charging, they're smaller, better for calls, just to name a few reasons.
> 
> ...


How about the fokus pro H variant vs the ex vs the twx9?


----------



## erockg

nekonhime said:


> How about the fokus pro H variant vs the ex vs the twx9?


The Fokus H-ANC sounded good (driver and balanced armature), but the ANC wasn't great, nor was transparency.  Fit was awesome for me though.  The build quality is nowhere near as good as the EX or TWX9.  For me, I'd pass on the FH-ANC.  The TWX9 are a better _value_ than the EX and depending on where you purchase - $170 cheaper.  ANC and Transparency mode is much better on the TWX9 too and they're smaller.  Sound on the EX has the edge and they have a sick IP rating.  That said, for 2-3 weeks now, I've been picking up the TWX9 and my APP2 muuuuuch more than my EX and Bose QCII.  We'll see how long that lasts!  I'll have to get them back in the rotation this week!


----------



## helmutcheese (Oct 24, 2022)

I think these are the crowdfunded model that they also offer a USB aptX Lossless etc Dongle running the QCC3071 Chipset (they upgraded it over original spec'd QCC3056).



Battery a bit meh.


----------



## Zeromus

I've got a pair of SE535, and the old Bluetooth RMCEBT2. 

I have a pair of Sony XM4 that I use during the workday for the noise cancelling provided by my employer for focus as I have ADHD, and I transport them to my office for in office days in my bag and back home for work from home days. The noise cancelling is my main thing for those.

But, when I'm commuting, I don't want to wear the XM4s on the bus/subway. Mainly because I don't want to worry about rain/snow given that I didn't pay for them and work won't give me a new pair if they break.

I'm wondering if there are any newer TWS MMCX adapters that would be worth using on my 535 for ease of commute, or if I'm better off using the RMCEBT2 I already have that's been sitting in my desk for a while. I used to have an LG phone with headphone port, but it died and phones all need headphone dongles now and that's just too many cables for the commute at this point, and I've moved on to just using Spotify for my commutes anyway. 

Didn't really want to shell out $300 CAD for the TWS Shure adapters either, since I doubt they're *that* good for my use case. 

When working from home I have a toddler downstairs but a closed door and the XM4s, even without music when I want quiet focus, block out the noise well enough and I have been trying to avoid wearing stuff in my ears all day. 

Thanks! I figure this is the best thread to ask in since it's so focused on true wireless, but if not, let me know and I'll repost in another place.


----------



## ekjellgren

erockg said:


> Same here. TWX9 are still in the honeymoon phase, but I've have the EX since launch day, so I must still love them.


Would you get the TWX9 over the GB2P? You got both, right?


----------



## xSDMx

Zeromus said:


> I've got a pair of SE535, and the old Bluetooth RMCEBT2.
> 
> I have a pair of Sony XM4 that I use during the workday for the noise cancelling provided by my employer for focus as I have ADHD, and I transport them to my office for in office days in my bag and back home for work from home days. The noise cancelling is my main thing for those.
> 
> ...


Bite the bullet and buy the Shure TW2 adapters. Except the large, bulky charging case and lack of wireless charging they are IMO the best BT adapter on the market. Super secure and comfortable fit. Transparency mode is flawless and transparency on pause is perfect for listening to announcements or talking to a passenger, etc. You don't need ANC with a deep insertion nozzle and foam tips like the Shure Olives. Seriously, they block out so much noise passively that once you start playing music, it's all gone. Everytime I try something different than this setup, I end up almost immediately coming back to it. I wear them out and about, when doing long distance running, in the gym, for work calls, whatever, they're great.


----------



## MaxwellDemon

Zeromus said:


> I've got a pair of SE535, and the old Bluetooth RMCEBT2.
> 
> I have a pair of Sony XM4 that I use during the workday for the noise cancelling provided by my employer for focus as I have ADHD, and I transport them to my office for in office days in my bag and back home for work from home days. The noise cancelling is my main thing for those.
> 
> ...


Ooof, the price is a little bit hard on the limit, so I think there's a few ways to go about this. My go-to has been the FiiO UTWS5 for this specific scenario and they have been absolutely lovely in transforming my IEMs to wireless mode. They do have MMCX adapter version and are slightly cheaper than the Shure adapters being at US$129 vs Shure's US$189. I actually found mine secondhand, so maybe take a look at the market and see perhaps you can find someone selling it.


----------



## Zeromus

I'll take a look at second hand for sure. Thanks for the tip. 



xSDMx said:


> Bite the bullet and buy the Shure TW2 adapters. Except the large, bulky charging case and lack of wireless charging they are IMO the best BT adapter on the market. Super secure and comfortable fit. Transparency mode is flawless and transparency on pause is perfect for listening to announcements or talking to a passenger, etc. You don't need ANC with a deep insertion nozzle and foam tips like the Shure Olives. Seriously, they block out so much noise passively that once you start playing music, it's all gone. Everytime I try something different than this setup, I end up almost immediately coming back to it. I wear them out and about, when doing long distance running, in the gym, for work calls, whatever, they're great.



I do know that the isolation is good, but ever since my first COVID bout back in 2020 I've become very susceptible to ear infections. Wearing IEMs for extended periods of time is something that seems to make my ears itchy and has lead to more infections - even if I change the sleeves, disinfect regularly, etc. I just can't wear IEMs all day anymore like I used to a couple years back. Hence the ANC tech. 

For convenience though, earbuds are fine when I'm on the bus, or exercising for a short period of time, doing yardwork etc. But they just can't be something I wear all day from the commute through the work day and back home anymore. 

If the TW2 are that good, I may see if I can wait out a good second hand deal or sale. Or if a great price on the fiios comes along perhaps I try them and return if I find them sub par.


----------



## BooleanBones

xSDMx said:


> Bite the bullet and buy the Shure TW2 adapters. Except the large, bulky charging case and lack of wireless charging they are IMO the best BT adapter on the market. Super secure and comfortable fit. Transparency mode is flawless and transparency on pause is perfect for listening to announcements or talking to a passenger, etc. You don't need ANC with a deep insertion nozzle and foam tips like the Shure Olives. Seriously, they block out so much noise passively that once you start playing music, it's all gone. Everytime I try something different than this setup, I end up almost immediately coming back to it. I wear them out and about, when doing long distance running, in the gym, for work calls, whatever, they're great.


I second everything mentioned. The TW2 work very well and will be perfect for your 535s. Make sure to go for second generation if you explore the used/discount route.


----------



## erockg

ekjellgren said:


> Would you get the TWX9 over the GB2P? You got both, right?


I would.  GB2P are tiny and great if you want a pair for on the go.  I have them paired to both my Fold and my iPhone etc.  But if you don't have an Android phone, the TWX9 would be better.  If you're on Android, you can go either way.  One key point about the GB2P in my world is that they're great for when I'm lying on my side listening to an audio book in bed.  The TWX9 do work for me (not everyone) doing that but you definitely feel them digging into your ears, depending on how plush the pillow is.  I paid around $30 for my GB2P buds, so I can't judge them the same way as if I paid full price.  TWX9 are much more premium.  GB2P are not.


----------



## Ghisy

Hey,

Has anyone compared the Focal ZE3000 and the Noble Audio Fokus Pro?

Which one has the best sound overall? Especially in the bass department.

I got the Final but I wonder if the price difference with the the Fokus Pro is worth it or not. I don't care about ANC or transparent modes.


----------



## TK33

BooleanBones said:


> I second everything mentioned. The TW2 work very well and will be perfect for your 535s. Make sure to go for second generation if you explore the used/discount route.


I agree.  My SE846s went back on the TW2 adapters this weekend.  Was perfect for enjoying music while grilling some prime ribeyes outside. Shure did a great job with these in my opinion and they just seem to work as intended.


----------



## cresny

Zeromus said:


> I'll take a look at second hand for sure. Thanks for the tip.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


they can be had here as a return item for $149. I also have the UTWS5, but I think if I were to do it over I would go for the Shures, if only for the hear-through mode which is not that great on the FIIO.


----------



## Fleeple

helmutcheese said:


> I think these are the crowdfunded model that they also offer a USB aptX Lossless etc Dongle running the QCC3071 Chipset (they upgraded it over original spec'd QCC3056).
> 
> 
> 
> Battery a bit meh.



Definitely trying these if the cyber blades don't work out (whenever they arrive)


----------



## nekonhime

Fleeple said:


> Definitely trying these if the cyber blades don't work out (whenever they arrive)


You mean the angry miao cyberblade? Hot damn, I can't wait for your review


----------



## Fleeple

nekonhime said:


> You mean the angry miao cyberblade? Hot damn, I can't wait for your review


Thank you! If I'm being honest my biggest worry is the case size when walking out and about but if they're awesome (or awesomely terrible) I'll be sure to put something up 😄


----------



## erockg

Fleeple said:


> Definitely trying these if the cyber blades don't work out (whenever they arrive)





nekonhime said:


> You mean the angry miao cyberblade? Hot damn, I can't wait for your review


Just submitted my address for the Kickstarter early bird.  I'll post stuff whenever (if) I get them in November!


----------



## erockg

Wonder if Devialet has something new on the horizon.  Price dropped significantly on Amazon US:  https://www.amazon.com/Devialet-LX6...6IjMuNjIifQ==&sprefix=devialet,aps,136&sr=8-5


----------



## cresny

erockg said:


> Wonder if Devialet has something new on the horizon.  Price dropped significantly on Amazon US:  https://www.amazon.com/Devialet-LX608-Gemini/dp/B08KSM9W7X/ref=sr_1_5?crid=C08BTLMRN0TF&keywords=devialet&qid=1666640994&qu=eyJxc2MiOiI0LjQwIiwicXNhIjoiNC4wNiIsInFzcCI6IjMuNjIifQ==&sprefix=devialet,aps,136&sr=8-5


Yup, that seems to be the new list price. Something new from them would be awesome, hope it happens!


----------



## clerkpalmer (Oct 24, 2022)

Off topic but I don't care - I've been here since the beginning so I'm taking some license...

The Bathys are awesome.  I've tried a lot of higher end bluetooth headphones (I stay away from the consumer oriented models).  Currently have the Deva Pro.  Formerly the Ananda BT, Mobius and Panda (all of which I loved).  Just sold my APM.  These Bathys really straddle the line between audiophile sound with a bit of boosted bass for fun.  I've owned Focals before and some people think they are boring but I've always appreciated their sound signature.  They have terrific soundstage and depth that frankly has no business in a bluetooth headphone particularly over AAC on an iphone.  Everything is crisp, tight with a nice sense of space.  Gonna try the USB-C tomorrow.  These should be on everyone's short list.  The fact they have ANC is a bonus.  Was gonna sell them since I don't really need them but now I'm not so sure.


----------



## bladefd

erockg said:


> Wonder if Devialet has something new on the horizon.  Price dropped significantly on Amazon US:  https://www.amazon.com/Devialet-LX608-Gemini/dp/B08KSM9W7X/ref=sr_1_5?crid=C08BTLMRN0TF&keywords=devialet&qid=1666640994&qu=eyJxc2MiOiI0LjQwIiwicXNhIjoiNC4wNiIsInFzcCI6IjMuNjIifQ==&sprefix=devialet,aps,136&sr=8-5


If only it wasn't too big vertically.. Not good for lying down and listening to music.

The wait continues...


----------



## nekonhime

clerkpalmer said:


> Off topic but I don't care - I've been here since the beginning so I'm taking some license...
> 
> The Bathys are awesome.  I've tried a lot of higher end bluetooth headphones (I stay away from the consumer oriented models).  Currently have the Deva Pro.  Formerly the Ananda BT, Mobius and Panda (all of which I loved).  Just sold my APM.  These Bathys really straddle the line between audiophile sound with a bit of boosted bass for fun.  I've owned Focals before and some people think they are boring but I've always appreciated their sound signature.  They have terrific soundstage and depth that frankly has no business in a bluetooth headphone particularly over AAC on an iphone.  Everything is crisp, tight with a nice sense of space.  Gonna try the USB-C tomorrow.  These should be on everyone's short list.  The fact they have ANC is a bonus.  Was gonna sell them since I don't really need them but now I'm not so sure.


How does it compare to the h95, xm5, 5909 and APM?


----------



## clerkpalmer

nekonhime said:


> How does it compare to the h95, xm5, 5909 and APM?


I can only speak to the APM I think the Bathys are a significant step up in terms of sq. Soundstage is much better as is detail. I liked the APM as an all arounder but for music I didn’t love them.  Sounds like the guys in the Bathys thread think the PX8 might be the closest competitor so maybe check those out too.


----------



## zakurie

TWX9 or APP2?


----------



## nekonhime

zakurie said:


> TWX9 or APP2?


Since I always dislike apple, twx9


----------



## DJ XtAzY

Welp one of my Devialet Gemini fumbled out of my pockets and fell into the elevator shaft. Time for a new TWS I guess. I haven't been here in a while, but after some searching, is the ATH-TWX9 the way to go? I thought about getting the Samsung Buds2 Pro, since I have the S21, but it seems like the TWX9 is a great step up. Anyone tried them while working out and running? The issues I had with the Geminis was because it was bulky and constantly falling out. And of course, the battery. I really didn't like the battery life on the Geminis, and they never pushed out any firmwares to correct the issue.


----------



## cresny

DJ XtAzY said:


> Welp one of my Devialet Gemini fumbled out of my pockets and fell into the elevator shaft. Time for a new TWS I guess. I haven't been here in a while, but after some searching, is the ATH-TWX9 the way to go? I thought about getting the Samsung Buds2 Pro, since I have the S21, but it seems like the TWX9 is a great step up. Anyone tried them while working out and running? The issues I had with the Geminis was because it was bulky and constantly falling out. And of course, the battery. I really didn't like the battery life on the Geminis, and they never pushed out any firmwares to correct the issue.


I do not recommend the TWX9 for running because wind is very noticeable, much more so than the Gemini which is actually quite good with wind.


----------



## nekonhime

cresny said:


> I do not recommend the TWX9 for running because wind is very noticeable, much more so than the Gemini which is actually quite good with wind.


Which one is better in sq and anc in your opinion?


----------



## cresny

nekonhime said:


> Which one is better in sq and anc in your opinion?


TWX9 for SQ, Gemini for ANC


----------



## Tenlow

So, the Airpods Pro 2 came in today. Have been listening for several hours so far. 

Like the tuning quite a bit. Best Airpods buds so far imo. ANC is very good, too. Transparency mode brilliant as always. Spatial audio is amazing for movies and podcasts but that's nothing new (have been using the Airpods Max for 1 1/2 years now). They seem to be quite the package this time around. Fit and comfort are both great, the case is very compact and pocketable and solidly built. 

They're maybe not _the _best sounding TWS and they don't have _the _best battery life (like my Beyers better for both categories) but once you start to consider everything they bring to the table, they're tough to beat. 

As already stated in the APP2 thread, a couple of years ago, I wouldn't have recommended Airpods to anyone asking me for great sounding In-Ears or TWS. They have always been nice buds but more so for their convenience and software wizardry instead of being great sounding. Apple has come a long way with these. They are almost a no brainer for Apple users right now. There are better sounding TWS out there still but the gap has narrowed significantly and as a whole package the Airpods Pro 2 seem fantastic. 

"Cons" are the relatively average battery life of 6 hours and that still existing Lightning port. Other than that, they're a compelling piece of audio tech.


----------



## BigZ12

Tenlow said:


> So, the Airpods Pro 2 came in today. Have been listening for several hours so far.
> 
> Like the tuning quite a bit. Best Airpods buds so far imo. ANC is very good, too. Transparency mode brilliant as always. Spatial audio is amazing for movies and podcasts but that's nothing new (have been using the Airpods Max for 1 1/2 years now). They seem to be quite the package this time around. Fit and comfort are both great, the case is very compact and pocketable and solidly built.
> 
> ...





BigZ12 said:


> Try this: (on your iPhone) for even better/crisper sound:
> 
> Go to Settings > Accessibility.
> Scroll down and tap Audio/Visual.
> ...


I find Balanced Tone with "Moderate" setting to be the best.


----------



## clerkpalmer

If anyone wants to part with their AT TWX9, hit me with a pm.


----------



## clerkpalmer

Tenlow said:


> So, the Airpods Pro 2 came in today. Have been listening for several hours so far.
> 
> Like the tuning quite a bit. Best Airpods buds so far imo. ANC is very good, too. Transparency mode brilliant as always. Spatial audio is amazing for movies and podcasts but that's nothing new (have been using the Airpods Max for 1 1/2 years now). They seem to be quite the package this time around. Fit and comfort are both great, the case is very compact and pocketable and solidly built.
> 
> ...


Cons are very average sq for stereo music. How do people find the fit? For me, they are pretty fussy once you start moving and even a little sweat and forget it. think the Beats Pro is a better product all around.  I hope they upgrade those.


----------



## mottykytu

Guys is TWS IEM benefits from good DAP ?

I mean if listen music through tw Bluetooth from SP1000 vs Iphone 14, will SP1000 be much better ?


----------



## Beh0lder

Bose QC Buds II have a gem of an option in the app - I can freely select which 2 devices are to be connected, no more re-pairing when I change my mind with what should it connect. Quick toggle change and voila! They also seem to handle wind noise very well - in the same conditions in which MTW3s made audible noise, the BQCBII (sic) were almost silent. I did not expect that given their more protruding shape.


----------



## Tenlow

clerkpalmer said:


> Cons are very average sq for stereo music. How do people find the fit? For me, they are pretty fussy once you start moving and even a little sweat and forget it. think the Beats Pro is a better product all around.  I hope they upgrade those.


Wouldn't agree with both, honestly (although fit is always a very individual thing of course). They fit snug and secure here, very much like the Nothing Ear1 which I still love to this day for their fit. Also, they are good for stereo music as well. Not the best overall, but the best Airpods yet and good enough for most people, I would assume. 

DMS has kind of praised them on Youtube (not that it means much but he's still audiophile enough at least to have an opinion ) and the measurements over at Soundguys look pretty good, too. Screenshot attached.


----------



## Not so fat head

Food for thought...
On a properly implemented AAC, apx HD or LDAC in hardware/software, you're not going to hear a big SQ difference. There will be some, but I have Bluetooth headphones of all three types, and there's nothing to get worked up about there.
None bury, destroy, smash, obliterate, blow away or kill the others.


----------



## dweaver

Not so fat head said:


> Food for thought...
> On a properly implemented AAC, apx HD or LDAC in hardware/software, you're not going to hear a big SQ difference. There will be some, but I have Bluetooth headphones of all three types, and there's nothing to get worked up about there.
> None bury, destroy, smash, obliterate, blow away or kill the others.


Totally agree and improperly implemented ones can actually sound worse. (Looking at you LDAC when you need to be tweaked in dev options to work correctly...)


----------



## zObiToz

erockg said:


> Here are a few pics for comparison.


You mentioned that you also have APP2, i guess that you are using TWX9 with iPhone? Could you make a small compare between them? About SQ, comfort, battery life, control,… Thanks!


----------



## zObiToz

TWX9 owner, what do you think about it battery? Seen a few comment of japanese complain about that?
Also in product description, ATH states that it’s take 2 hours to full charge the earbuds. Is that true? It’s really slow for a TWS in 2022, isn’t it?


----------



## dweaver

So, I have been playing around with my crazy collection of TWS and find myself going back to the Galaxy Buds 2 Pro more often than not. But after having finally bought the Libert 3 Pro I have to say bang for the buck the L3P are hard to beat, and they sound damn good too albeit in a different way. If I was to make an analogy, I would say that the Galaxy Buds 2 Pro are like a detailed painting and the Libert 3 Pro are like a detailed drawing where the artist likes to use heavy lines. The GB2P offer a soundscape that is slightly distant but close enough you can concentrate on details if you wish. The L3P offer a soundscape that is more intimate that can be almost distracting in its detail especially in the treble region. They both work but the L3P is not as conducive for all genre's and EXTEMELY effective for certain genres. The GP2P is conducive for all genre's but at the expense of not being as effective for certain genre's or at least not as vibrant.

For example, when listening to Patricia Barber on the L3P the songs are very intimate and detailed with a wonderful 3D soundscape, but her S's can get to pronounced and it's easy to get distracted by some of the drumkit details. But the overall experience is very powerful and impacting. The GB2P on the other hand is seated a bit further back in the concert and the 3D presentation is more subtle as are details such as the drumkit sounds and her vocals. When I want to really get lost in the details, I prefer the L3P but if I am needing to focus on other tasks or just want a more relaxed experience the GB2P work better.

The Sony Linkbuds on the other hand is like a painting only enjoyed from across the room. They just lack in detail and rely on you just enjoying the overall picture (soundscape) versus honing in on anything specific.

The big difference is the L3P can probably be tuned via the EQ app to be closer to the GB2P while the GB2P and Linkbuds S cannot be EQ'd to match the L3P as one lacks a custom EQ and the other lacks the ability to reach the same level of details regardless of it's EQ.

For those who own the Technics AZ60 they have a similar sound the L3P minus the sharpness in the treble regions that the BA driver provides. This also means they do not have the same sibilance issues as the L3P which can be good or bad depending on preference.

Price wise since these all go on sale, the L3P easily win in regard to value as it offers as good or better features of the Technics, and almost all of the features of the Sony and Samsung for a fraction of the cost.


----------



## darveniza

Beh0lder said:


> Bose QC Buds II have a gem of an option in the app - I can freely select which 2 devices are to be connected, no more re-pairing when I change my mind with what should it connect. Quick toggle change and voila! They also seem to handle wind noise very well - in the same conditions in which MTW3s made audible noise, the BQCBII (sic) were almost silent. I did not expect that given their more protruding shape.


Not having luck with that


----------



## erockg

zObiToz said:


> You mentioned that you also have APP2, i guess that you are using TWX9 with iPhone? Could you make a small compare between them? About SQ, comfort, battery life, control,… Thanks!


Yes, I'm on an iPhone most days.  APP2 are more comfortable.  I don't like the tap controls on the TWX9 and the click button controls can be unreliable if you're multi-paired to more than one device.  ANC and sound are both great.  The controls are more reliable on the APP2.  I also prefer the small case of the APP2.  If you do not have aftermarket tips on your APP2, you may very well prefer the fit/seal on the TWX9.  Both tws are very good.  If you're in the Apple ecosystem, I'd say get the APP2.


----------



## mottykytu

erockg said:


> Yes, I'm on an iPhone most days.  APP2 are more comfortable.  I don't like the tap controls on the TWX9 and the click button controls can be unreliable if you're multi-paired to more than one device.  ANC and sound are both great.  The controls are more reliable on the APP2.  I also prefer the small case of the APP2.  If you do not have aftermarket tips on your APP2, you may very well prefer the fit/seal on the TWX9.  Both tws are very good.  If you're in the Apple ecosystem, I'd say get the APP2.


What make you prefer TWX9 over EX ? people say The Audio Technica look premium but from photos I think it ugly compare to Beoplay Ex? What do you think ?


----------



## zObiToz

erockg said:


> Yes, I'm on an iPhone most days.  APP2 are more comfortable.  I don't like the tap controls on the TWX9 and the click button controls can be unreliable if you're multi-paired to more than one device.  ANC and sound are both great.  The controls are more reliable on the APP2.  I also prefer the small case of the APP2.  If you do not have aftermarket tips on your APP2, you may very well prefer the fit/seal on the TWX9.  Both tws are very good.  If you're in the Apple ecosystem, I'd say get the APP2.


How about battery? With AAC, can TWX9 hold up to 6 hours with ANC like APP2 (as Apple told us). And how long it take to recharge it?
Thank you.


----------



## erockg

zObiToz said:


> How about battery? With AAC, can TWX9 hold up to 6 hours with ANC like APP2 (as Apple told us). And how long it take to recharge it?
> Thank you.


Honestly don't know.  I've never tested them both against one another.  For me, it's so close it's negligible.  I use them for hours and switch off.


----------



## erockg

mottykytu said:


> What make you prefer TWX9 over EX ? people say The Audio Technica look premium but from photos I think it ugly compare to Beoplay Ex? What do you think ?


The EX are more premium and the case is metal.  I prefer the sound of the EX, but again, it's all about the entire package.  I pick up my TWX9 more because of the features.


----------



## mottykytu

erockg said:


> The EX are more premium and the case is metal.  I prefer the sound of the EX, but again, it's all about the entire package.  I pick up my TWX9 more because of the features.


Which features make you choose the TWX9 ?


----------



## erockg

mottykytu said:


> Which features make you choose the TWX9 ?


Better ANC and Transparency mode by far.


----------



## Xinlisupreme

Wich TWS buds (no iem) would I chose for a redmi note 11 Pro?
My wife doesn’t like IEMs and tips, sorry for stupid question but I don’t really know these products…
Something like this


----------



## chinmie

Xinlisupreme said:


> Wich TWS buds (no iem) would I chose for a redmi note 11 Pro?
> My wife doesn’t like IEMs and tips, sorry for stupid question but I don’t really know these products…
> Something like this



i recently purchased the Soundpeats Air 3 and really recommend it: small case, good battery life, working app, and good sounding. The EQ on the app also provide custom preset


----------



## clerkpalmer

erockg said:


> Yes, I'm on an iPhone most days.  APP2 are more comfortable.  I don't like the tap controls on the TWX9 and the click button controls can be unreliable if you're multi-paired to more than one device.  ANC and sound are both great.  The controls are more reliable on the APP2.  I also prefer the small case of the APP2.  If you do not have aftermarket tips on your APP2, you may very well prefer the fit/seal on the TWX9.  Both tws are very good.  If you're in the Apple ecosystem, I'd say get the APP2.


What aftermarket tips are you using on APP2 and do they improve sq stability or both?


----------



## meatroll (Oct 26, 2022)

This will be my last pair of Lypertek, my Tevi was good so i bought Z7 as the upgrade. Then after 2 months, volume on right bud just suddenly reduced by 5db, ok it's fine Wavelet still can fix it.
 Now after 5 months one of a pin on the right side suddenly retracted and couldn't charge the right bud anymore
 The QC is horrible bad. Good bye Lypertek, can't believe i paid 180$ for this
 p/s: I don't use it very often because I have been WFH since the beginning of the year, maybe 1-2 times a week while walking


----------



## erockg

clerkpalmer said:


> What aftermarket tips are you using on APP2 and do they improve sq stability or both?


https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B094QFSWLD/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

I do like the way they sound.  I am experimenting this week with the Devialet tips on the adapters and dig it.


----------



## nekonhime

Multipoint connection for xm4 and linkbud is coming soon


----------



## MisterMonsieur

I just returned my Final ZE3000, while the soundstage and mids are really good.. I find the treble just taking too much attention. Also it is very touch sensitive and I find myself often accidently pausing them. Also I can't have them connected to two devices, always need to unpair in bluetooth settings. In the end they were pretty inconvenient.

Tuning-wise my Galaxy Buds Pro still remain to beat. Just ordered the Pro 2 now, if they aren't a step up I will just remain very content with my original Pros.


----------



## scubaphish

chinmie said:


> i recently purchased the Soundpeats Air 3 and really recommend it: small case, good battery life, working app, and good sounding. The EQ on the app also provide custom preset


Interestingly enough, I recently came into a set of SOUNDPEATS life. Solid, detailed 11mm drivers for $40. Also has good ANC and pass through. They take a bit more power to drive , but still get loud enough for me. I very much recommend for a budget set.


----------



## Xinlisupreme

chinmie said:


> i recently purchased the Soundpeats Air 3 and really recommend it: small case, good battery life, working app, and good sounding. The EQ on the app also provide custom preset


Air 3 bought, it will arrive tomorrow 😀


----------



## Aevum

nope, all the audio decoding is done on the TWS. the only benefit you might get is if the dap or phone has better codecs to connect to the bluetooth headset, you´re clearly going to get better quality if your dap or phone has LDAC, APTX-HD or adaptive then just AAC like an iphone.


----------



## erockg

They don’t look very comfy but supposedly new Moondrop Alice dropping end of month.  Can’t find the specs.


----------



## roxynox

need to upgrade my Jabra 75T as I have issues connecting with my smart watch given that the Jabra uses the R as the primary Bluetooth connection point and I wear the watch on my left hand. Do all the new TWS buds for Samsung, Huawei, Sony and TWX9 use newer technology with both R, L buds capable of direct Bluetooth connection and not rely on 1 primary connection?

seeking some advice as manufacturers do not share much in the spec sheets.


----------



## nekonhime

roxynox said:


> need to upgrade my Jabra 75T as I have issues connecting with my smart watch given that the Jabra uses the R as the primary Bluetooth connection point and I wear the watch on my left hand. Do all the new TWS buds for Samsung, Huawei, Sony and TWX9 use newer technology with both R, L buds capable of direct Bluetooth connection and not rely on 1 primary connection?
> 
> seeking some advice as manufacturers do not share much in the spec sheets.


You mean separately? If so then yes. The master and slave tech is outdated


----------



## nekonhime

erockg said:


> They don’t look very comfy but supposedly new Moondrop Alice dropping end of month.  Can’t find the specs.


Look like a weebs version of xm3 though


----------



## zObiToz

nekonhime said:


> You mean separately? If so then yes. The master and slave tech is outdated


Actually, the master-slave are still being used by many TWS now. They just smarter, each earbud can act as master now, if we put the current master bud into the case, the current slave will become master and connect with phone. Some TWS will choose the right bud as master for default, some will choose the one that be take out from the first, some even smarter will choose the one with more battery percent left.


----------



## roxynox (Oct 27, 2022)

zObiToz said:


> Actually, the master-slave are still being used by many TWS now. They just smarter, each earbud can act as master now, if we put the current master bud into the case, the current slave will become master and connect with phone. Some TWS will choose the right bud as master for default, some will choose the one that be take out from the first, some even smarter will choose the one with more battery percent left.


yes I understand that the master-slave is still what most brands still use. How do I change the default from R to L for example?

Any specific model which states that both R, L are masters receivers individually? I read the Earin M2 clearly markets this feature.

“Bluetooth chipset maker Qualcomm typically doesn’t disclose which TWS earbuds use which of its chipsets, but it’s easy to guess which devices are using which chip. The QCC514 chipset was intended to directly address “the robustness shortcoming”—meaning wireless connectivity—of earlier (and more budget-conscious) chipsets. Its QCC5xx series chipsets are more likely to be found in higher-end buds, while the QCC30xx series will be found in more basic offerings.”

Not true apparently as there are many high-end ear buds that use the older QCC30xx series chipset.


----------



## darveniza

Xinlisupreme said:


> Wich TWS buds (no iem) would I chose for a redmi note 11 Pro?
> My wife doesn’t like IEMs and tips, sorry for stupid question but I don’t really know these products…
> Something like this


Marshall if you don't need ANC


----------



## Xinlisupreme

darveniza said:


> Marshall if you don't need ANC


What I pity I bought Soundpeats Air3
Do you mean this one?
https://www.marshallheadphones.com/it/en/minor-iii.html
Maybe I’ll grab it also, I found new for 86€


----------



## harpdoc

I've tried my _Creative_ BT-W4 adapter with the TWX9's a few times now. I had not really expected to notice much difference between the regular apt-x of my Samsung phone and apt-x adaptive from the Creative, but there is a noticeable improvement. Sounds more polished, a bit more lush. The bt-w4 is a great solution for phones that don't do apt-x adaptive or computers that don't do bluetooth well.


----------



## harpdoc

harpdoc said:


> I would not recommend the MW08 (regular or Sport). I've got an old pair of MW07+ and really enjoyed them back in their day. They have been incredibly solid and reliable, and I still use them for bike riding, skiing, podcasts, etc. when sound quality is not the priority. Love the real buttons, as opposed to touch controls.  As erockg said, lots of modern earbuds sound better these days. I bought the MW08 Sport expecting a similar experience. Super buggy, limited app. Connection problems, constant issues. Dropped one on my floor from about 3 feet and the ceramic cracked ($350 sport earphones!) Then the right button stopped working. Figured I just got a bad pair, since everyone says they have such good build quality. Exchanged them and continue to have a terrible experience with the newer pair. Continue to be buggy and have connection issues. Multi-point is very unreliable. The latest is that I cannot turn on ANC (which sucks) or Ambient modes (decent), either through the app or buttons. I get an error message saying that both earphones need to be turned on for that to work. Tried factory reset and repairing with multiple devices, and with each other. If anyone knows a fix, please let me know!
> 
> I do enjoy their sound quality, but only with rather extensive EQ and tip rolling. They are a bassy, muddy mess otherwise. Just got the ATX-TWX9, which are much more precise and superior in almost every way. But I still like the warm sound of the MW08. But don't buy them unless you want constant problems.


As a follow up, I figured out why I was having problems with my MW08 Sports. Turns out that my XL Azla replacement tips were obscuring the wear sensors of the earbuds, making them think that one was not inserted in the ear. When that is the case, they will still play but will not go into ANC or ambient mode. This is the case even if you have wear detection turned off. Quirky. Working great now, just not with those tips.


----------



## SynaestheticA

dweaver said:


> So, I have been playing around with my crazy collection of TWS and find myself going back to the Galaxy Buds 2 Pro more often than not. But after having finally bought the Libert 3 Pro I have to say bang for the buck the L3P are hard to beat, and they sound damn good too albeit in a different way. If I was to make an analogy, I would say that the Galaxy Buds 2 Pro are like a detailed painting and the Libert 3 Pro are like a detailed drawing where the artist likes to use heavy lines. The GB2P offer a soundscape that is slightly distant but close enough you can concentrate on details if you wish. The L3P offer a soundscape that is more intimate that can be almost distracting in its detail especially in the treble region. They both work but the L3P is not as conducive for all genre's and EXTEMELY effective for certain genres. The GP2P is conducive for all genre's but at the expense of not being as effective for certain genre's or at least not as vibrant.
> 
> For example, when listening to Patricia Barber on the L3P the songs are very intimate and detailed with a wonderful 3D soundscape, but her S's can get to pronounced and it's easy to get distracted by some of the drumkit details. But the overall experience is very powerful and impacting. The GB2P on the other hand is seated a bit further back in the concert and the 3D presentation is more subtle as are details such as the drumkit sounds and her vocals. When I want to really get lost in the details, I prefer the L3P but if I am needing to focus on other tasks or just want a more relaxed experience the GB2P work better.
> 
> ...


I think the L3P is exactly the type of sound I want in headphones but I just wish they looked nicer. Aesthetics win out over sound quality when I'm picking buds.


----------



## dweaver

SynaestheticA said:


> I think the L3P is exactly the type of sound I want in headphones but I just wish they looked nicer. Aesthetics win out over sound quality when I'm picking buds.


If you don't mind a stem style maybe the Liberty 4 would be up your alley. They will sound different but probably not massively different. I also have A40 and it definitely has less bass and every review I have read states that. But the Liberty 4 reviews suggest while it's less it not as severe as the A40.


----------



## SynaestheticA

Do you know what the improvements of the Liberty 4 are over the L3P?

Just checked the l3p more closely and saw they had colour options, might help me like them more.


----------



## dweaver

The Liberty 4 is a dual dynamic versus a dynamic plus balanced armature. The BA will have sharper more emphasized treble. So the L3P has a more V shaped sound. The L4 on the other will likely sound more natural but a bit less detailed in the treble due to using a dynamic driver.

Several reviewers like the L4 more because of the more natural timber.

The L4 also has a heart monitor but may lack some L3P features, can't remember off the top of my head. Battery life is similar I think.


----------



## WeirdG

Been trying a few different sets up true wireless earbuds lately, and I'm onto the Technics EAH-AZ60. Right off the bat I find them to be extremely bass heavy. Even after tweaking the EQ they're still bass heavy. I love that they support LDAC, have BT 5.2, multipoint works well,  fit my ears the best of anything I've tried, works really well in Teams meetings, and the ANC is actually pretty good.

I've also been using the Sony WF-1000XM4 and Sennheiser CX Plus a lot lately. Both sound great when I use them with Wavelet and set AutoEq profiles for them. Obviously the XM4 sound better, but they're also double the price. The one thing I don't like about the CX Plus is that they don't support LDAC, only aptX Adaptive. LDAC will have greater support on Android devices than aptX. There's no guarantee my next Android phone will support aptX, while LDAC is likely to be supported.

Here's the issue, I want to love the AZ60 but there's way too much emphasis on bass. The Technics app doesn't seem to help much in reducing it either. I think Wavelet could help, but it's going to take time to get things sounding right.

That leads me to the following question. Does anyone have good EQ settings in Wavelet for the Technics EAH-AZ60? At the very least it would give me a good starting point to work with. Please let me know.

TIA


----------



## SynaestheticA

dweaver said:


> The Liberty 4 is a dual dynamic versus a dynamic plus balanced armature. The BA will have sharper more emphasized treble. So the L3P has a more V shaped sound. The L4 on the other will likely sound more natural but a bit less detailed in the treble due to using a dynamic driver.
> 
> Several reviewers like the L4 more because of the more natural timber.
> 
> The L4 also has a heart monitor but may lack some L3P features, can't remember off the top of my head. Battery life is similar I think.


Thanks for that, 

They have spatial audio as well from what I read, advertised as sounds moving as you do. Don't see how that would interact with music, maybe it's designed for transparency mode. 

Anyways, I got a super neutral clear set in the Nuarl N6 Pro 2 and want some bass slam. Looks like the l3p is the move. Ty


----------



## BigZ12

Sennheiser MTW3 update. Downloading now...


----------



## SynaestheticA

Blocking touch function when earbud is out of ear is massive. Good update.


----------



## Tenlow

After having used the Airpods Pro 2 a bit more, I'm still very much enjoying them. Great ANC, even better transparency mode, very good for calls and still extremely compact. Love me some Spatial Audio from time to time. And they are comfortable and fit me really well. In the Apple ecosystem they are reall tough to beat as allrounders. 

For music they are still not the best even though a big improvement over the Airpods Pro Gen1. I've been thinking a lot about what exactly it was that they are "lacking" for me in sound as bass is there, mids and highs are great but it's possibly that they don't have a very natural timbre to them. They still sound a bit electronic or artificial sometimes. Also detail retrieval is there but when things get hectic in a song, they can struggle with details from time to time. Anyway, still very good sounding and feature wise excellent.


----------



## james444

Xinlisupreme said:


> What I pity I bought Soundpeats Air3
> Do you mean this one?
> https://www.marshallheadphones.com/it/en/minor-iii.html
> *Maybe I’ll grab it also, I found new for 86€*



Read this first:
https://www.soundguys.com/marshall-minor-iii-review-62184/


----------



## Xinlisupreme

james444 said:


> Read this first:
> https://www.soundguys.com/marshall-minor-iii-review-62184/


Thanks, i'll skip it


----------



## howdy

For those of you who have the G-Buds Pro and the G-Buds2 Pro is there a "justifiable" reason to upgrade? I have the Buds Pro and like them, my only issue with them is they have got to be the most finicky pair to get a great seal and sound and if the Buds2 pro fit better that would be awesome. I think the stem is to small for my gigantic ear hole to get a proper fit.

On another note, still loving the Bose QCII. I will be listing a few buds that are collecting dust for sometime if anyone is interested.


----------



## alsorkin

clerkpalmer said:


> What aftermarket tips are you using on APP2 and do they improve sq stability or both?


CharJenPro Memory Foam Ear Tips work well for me and others here that suggested trying them.


----------



## dweaver

howdy said:


> For those of you who have the G-Buds Pro and the G-Buds2 Pro is there a "justifiable" reason to upgrade? I have the Buds Pro and like them, my only issue with them is they have got to be the most finicky pair to get a great seal and sound and if the Buds2 pro fit better that would be awesome. I think the stem is to small for my gigantic ear hole to get a proper fit.
> 
> On another note, still loving the Bose QCII. I will be listing a few buds that are collecting dust for sometime if anyone is interested.


I have both a find the fit of the new version way better than the old one. I also think they sound better and if your a newer Samsung phone users and can take advantage of the 24bit audio it is seamless and does sound good. I am using the largest tip that comes from Samsung and they are working for me. I also have used the CP360 with good success but prefer the Samsung tip more. To put that into perspective I generally use the medium large or large Sony hybrid tips and have to go larger than most people because I too have large lug holes . But I also prefer shallow tips versus deep insertion ones.


----------



## howdy

dweaver said:


> I have both a find the fit of the new version way better than the old one. I also think they sound better and if your a newer Samsung phone users and can take advantage of the 24bit audio it is seamless and does sound good. I am using the largest tip that comes from Samsung and they are working for me. I also have used the CP360 with good success but prefer the Samsung tip more. To put that into perspective I generally use the medium large or large Sony hybrid tips and have to go larger than most people because I too have large lug holes . But I also prefer shallow tips versus deep insertion ones.


Thanks! I have a Note 20 ultra, but I can't stream 24 bit as I only have Spotify.  I may have to try these. I can trade in my Tevi earbuds that I never use and they will give me a 50 dollars off the Buds2 pro, so 179 is a good deal.


----------



## shooter

WeirdG said:


> Been trying a few different sets up true wireless earbuds lately, and I'm onto the Technics EAH-AZ60. Right off the bat I find them to be extremely bass heavy. Even after tweaking the EQ they're still bass heavy. I love that they support LDAC, have BT 5.2, multipoint works well,  fit my ears the best of anything I've tried, works really well in Teams meetings, and the ANC is actually pretty good.
> 
> I've also been using the Sony WF-1000XM4 and Sennheiser CX Plus a lot lately. Both sound great when I use them with Wavelet and set AutoEq profiles for them. Obviously the XM4 sound better, but they're also double the price. The one thing I don't like about the CX Plus is that they don't support LDAC, only aptX Adaptive. LDAC will have greater support on Android devices than aptX. There's no guarantee my next Android phone will support aptX, while LDAC is likely to be supported.
> 
> ...


Az60 bass heavy? Strange, for me they lack bass especially the lowest one, certainly you can EQ it but still...maybe they produce different batches.


----------



## howdy

Picked up the GB2 pro and they are noticeably smaller and really comfortable for the 10 minutes I had them in. The sound is really good and tight. Letting them charge up right now.


----------



## dweaver (Oct 29, 2022)

I really like the GB2P sound. I sometimes use the dynamic preset for a warmer sound, but mostly just leave them on default.


----------



## Juturna

Got me a set of Galaxy Buds Live, couldn't help myself when they were like $55 on Amazon. Been wanting a pair that doesn't block out much sound for when I need more awareness of the world around me. 

We'll see if I hate them as much as some other people seem to do. Unfortunately they won't get here until November 7th, I think.


----------



## MisterMonsieur (Oct 29, 2022)

I also got the GB2P today, they seem very comfortable. Oddly the largest tips fit me, with the GB1P I am using the smallest or midsize.

The sound with ANC is a bit sharp to my ears, without ANC they sound great. Bass seems to be tighter and has a tiny bit more rumble than my BP2. Mids / Treble and soundstage feel very similiar. I think they are an improvement, but it is very minor upgrade soundwise.
I've heard the GB2P has worse passive isolation, but better active noise isolation. hmmm I need to test them outside, maybe ANC sounds better while commuting.


----------



## harpdoc

We got our first big snow storm of fall and I took the twx9's for some backcountry skiing. There was a fair amount of wind and they were a mixed bag. ANC mode was excellent and dealt with the wind well, even when I was descending. I prefer ambient mode when skiing for situational awareness. The wind made this less than ideal. Had a phone call in an open, windy section and the other party said I was breaking up and that the call was noisy. Had to stop climbing and cup my ears to reduce wind to finish the call.


----------



## profusion

Does anyone have Sony wf c500? some people are complaining about a hiss or white noise over the audio?


----------



## Blueshound24 (Oct 29, 2022)

xSDMx said:


> Sounds like we have similar ears. Avoid anything with a short nozzle and bulbous housing. *Did you try using the CP1025 + CPA2 to extend the nozzle*? Galaxy Buds Pro and the Google Pixel Buds Pro will be among the worst offenders. Buds 2 Pro, TWX9, and XM4 might not fit, but YMMV. XM4 was marginal fitment for me. Pixel Buds 2/A fit just fine. Using any negative profile IEM (ex. SE846) with a Bluetooth adapter fits perfectly.




I find the fit difficult with the GB2Pro, does the CP1025 + CPA2 also work with the GB2P?
Or are there any other ear tip extensions specifically made to fit the GB2P?

And are there ear tip extensions made for the M&D MWO7?


Edit:
Also, just a bit of a rant...
I wish manufacturers would make the cut out in their case a bit bigger to accommodate larger tips and other after market tips! For certain brands I have had to remove my favorite tips so the earphones would fit back in the case!


----------



## Blueshound24 (Oct 29, 2022)

Juturna said:


> Got me a set of Galaxy Buds Live, couldn't help myself when they were like $55 on Amazon. Been wanting a pair that doesn't block out much sound for when I need more awareness of the world around me.
> 
> We'll see if I hate them as much as some other people seem to do. Unfortunately they won't get here until November 7th, I think.



IMO, (and you may have read this as well), but I found them very bassy with the bass bleeding into the mids, thus kinda muddy sounding. But some may find that to their preference.


----------



## xSDMx

Blueshound24 said:


> I find the fit difficult with the GB2Pro, does the CP1025 + CPA2 also work with the GB2P?
> Or are there any other ear tip extensions specifically made to fit the GB2P?
> 
> And are there ear tip extensions made for the M&D MWO7?
> ...


I'm not sure if they work with the GB2P, I would check the Amazon comments.


----------



## dweaver

Blueshound24 said:


> I find the fit difficult with the GB2Pro, does the CP1025 + CPA2 also work with the GB2P?
> Or are there any other ear tip extensions specifically made to fit the GB2P?


The GBP2 nozzle is shaped differently than GB2 so the adapter portion likely won't work. But the tip CP1025 look like it might fit depending on how wide it is.

I have tested the CP360 and it worked but sure how well long term as I went back to the stock tip.

The challenge is the tips need a shallow groove to fit in that lip on the stem.


----------



## erockg

Trying out the new LG Tone Free T90 today.  Great fit. Tiny.  More soon when I have some alone time!


----------



## PixelSquish

WeirdG said:


> Been trying a few different sets up true wireless earbuds lately, and I'm onto the Technics EAH-AZ60. Right off the bat I find them to be extremely bass heavy. Even after tweaking the EQ they're still bass heavy. I love that they support LDAC, have BT 5.2, multipoint works well,  fit my ears the best of anything I've tried, works really well in Teams meetings, and the ANC is actually pretty good.
> 
> I've also been using the Sony WF-1000XM4 and Sennheiser CX Plus a lot lately. Both sound great when I use them with Wavelet and set AutoEq profiles for them. Obviously the XM4 sound better, but they're also double the price. The one thing I don't like about the CX Plus is that they don't support LDAC, only aptX Adaptive. LDAC will have greater support on Android devices than aptX. There's no guarantee my next Android phone will support aptX, while LDAC is likely to be supported.
> 
> ...


You think the AZ60 are too bass heavy but like the Sony XM4 better?


----------



## regancipher

I just picked up the Soundpeats Air3 Deluxe HS, the first Soundpeats' LDAC release, which may be of interest to @Xinlisupreme . I guess they have released them to answer the competition, with Snapdragon Sound half-in-ear releases such as the Edifier W220T hitting the market, although I've only seen one semi-in-ear with LDAC previously (Yobybo X-Boat Pro). 

So far really impressed. For a single driver they have nice depth to the soundstage and crisp (bordering on overcooked) trebles. Form factor is identical to the Air3.

Should be able to get a review done at some point this week.

Others I've got in for testing are the Omthing Airfree Buds (Beats Studio rip off, not very good) and the Morph Audio Infiniconnect (basically Tronsmart Apollo Bold with less bass and a massive charge case). I have a bloody exam next month so no idea when I'm gonna review those ones :/


----------



## C_Lindbergh

Im having more trouble with the controlls not working on the AT-TWX9 lately...I sure Audio Techinica will release a new update soon :/


----------



## TK33

Not sure if this has been posted already but pretty excited to see Linkbuds is getting multipoint.  Looks like the update applies to the Linkbuds, Linkbuds S and XM4.  Looking forward to it.  Now if only I can figure out where I left my Linkbuds...


----------



## Not so fat head

shooter said:


> Az60 bass heavy? Strange, for me they lack bass especially the lowest one, certainly you can EQ it but still...maybe they produce different batches.


Excellent, perfect example..  Same buds, different people.  I can pretty much guarantee Technics QC is not the issue..  This is how we ALL perceive sound differently..  👍


----------



## XDT

erockg said:


> Trying out the new LG Tone Free T90 today.  Great fit. Tiny.  More soon when I have some alone time!


Could you tell me which tips are on the airpods? Do you have to take them off to fit the airpods into the case?


----------



## erockg

XDT said:


> Could you tell me which tips are on the airpods? Do you have to take them off to fit the airpods into the case?


Large Devialet Gemini tips from my collection.  Fits in the case perfect.


----------



## SynaestheticA

regancipher said:


> Others I've got in for testing are the Omthing Airfree Buds (Beats Studio rip off, not very good) and the Morph Audio Infiniconnect


You got your Morph Buds?

Still waiting for mine, that's interesting on your comparison with the Tronsmart buds. Don't tell me that after all of that they just ended up using another brands shell instead of sticking with their original design?


----------



## phiemon

What do you think about the AirPods Pro 2 vs the Sennheiser Momentum True Wireless 3? Which sounds better?


----------



## harpdoc

C_Lindbergh said:


> Im having more trouble with the controlls not working on the AT-TWX9 lately...I sure Audio Techinica will release a new update soon :/


Once they're in your ears, power off by holding the stem button on whichever earphone (or both) that has unresponsive buttons. Wait about 10 seconds then power on the same way. Fixes them everytime for me. Like you, hoping/expecting them to be fixed with firmware update.


----------



## Caipirina

Just sharing. 

The Bose QC earbuds 2 were released here in Japan on 9/29 ... I received them directly on that day .. 

I have not bought any other TWS since then! None! The whole month of October! 

Maybe the curse has been lifted!


----------



## J_3000

I noticed some channel imbalance with my 4 month old Beoplay EX's some time ago. Now got around on proper testing, and yes I would estimate it being around 10% or something. I contacted Amazon and they decide to send me a replacement unit immediately. Amazon's cs is just so good.


----------



## Juturna

Blueshound24 said:


> IMO, (and you may have read this as well), but I found them very bassy with the bass bleeding into the mids, thus kinda muddy sounding. But some may find that to their preference.


I mean yeah, some people say that they're very bassy, some say that they have zero bass, some say that they're perfectly balanced. I think it depends on the fit completely.  
But yeah, for $55 i'm not buying them for the sound quality, i'm doing mostly so I can have a more open set of earbuds. If I don't like them I'm going to give them away to one of my best friends, she can't wear earbuds if they actually have any sort of eartips, where I'm sort of the inverse. Usually don't like earbuds unless they DO have them, but all ears are different etc.


----------



## Juturna

Caipirina said:


> Just sharing.
> 
> The Bose QC earbuds 2 were released here in Japan on 9/29 ... I received them directly on that day ..
> 
> ...


You just jinxed it, bud!


----------



## logiatype

WeirdG said:


> works really well in Teams meetings


How's the mic work in Teams? Thinking of pulling the trigger on these.


----------



## Leonarfd

Little ranking of the microphones in the TWS i have had. 

1. Huawei Freebuds Pro 2 (works even when its noisy it is clear and natural)
2. Bose Quietcomfort Earbuds ( clear and natural sounding when its silent, picks up a lot of external noise)
3. Jabra Elite 7 Pro ( Very good and clear when new, degrades much over time. Just a little weak when its external noise)
4. Sony Linkbuds S ( Clear  only a little muffled, very thin and metallic sounding when its background noise)
5. Sennheiser Sport TWS ( unnatural even when its silent, unusable in noisy environment)


----------



## Blueshound24 (Oct 31, 2022)

This is copied from our own deals thread here on Head-fi in case anyone is interested.



> "Sony WF-1000MX4 true wireless earphones (black only) for $179, down from $248, shipped and sold by Amazon:
> https://www.amazon.com/Sony-WF-1000XM4-Industry-Canceling-Headphones/dp/B094C4VDJZ/"


----------



## logiatype

Leonarfd said:


> Little ranking of the microphones in the TWS i have had.
> 
> 1. Huawei Freebuds Pro 2 (works even when its noisy it is clear and natural)
> 2. Bose Quietcomfort Earbuds ( clear and natural sounding when its silent, picks up a lot of external noise)
> ...


Issue with the Freebuds Pro 2 is bluetooth switching is pretty wonky. It won't pause audio when a MS Teams call comes in. Thanks for the list.


----------



## Leonarfd

I talk on the phone for a hour or more when working at construction sites, my criteria is probably different than many others. Also only use it with my work phone.


----------



## WeirdG

PixelSquish said:


> You think the AZ60 are too bass heavy but like the Sony XM4 better?


Yup... the bass is way more balanced with the WF-1000XM4. You can't get even get rid of it on AZ60. It's just a complete mess and muddy sounding. I can't hear any clear separation of instruments. Keep in mind, about 75% of music I listen to are Indie rock bands. I also listen to 80s music, 90s alternative, and some hiphop/rap/R&B, but most of the time it's Indie bands.

I'm not sure if I indicated it above but I also use the Wavelet app on my phone (OnePlus 8T) and loaded the plain EQ profile for the WF-1000XM4. I also swapped out the foam tips for some silicone ones. The silicone tips are much more comfortable for me to use, and likely alters the sound compared to the foam tips. The noise cancelling isn't as good with the silicone tips, but it's good enough for my use case.

I also find the CX Plus when using Wavelet with the CX Plus EQ profile loaded to be comparable to the Sonys. Definitely not the same though, because the Sonys sound is much more detailed. I find the Sonys soundstage is also a better too. I'm using aptX Adaptive with the CX Plus and LDAC with the WF-1000XM4.


----------



## WeirdG

shooter said:


> Az60 bass heavy? Strange, for me they lack bass especially the lowest one, certainly you can EQ it but still...maybe they produce different batches.


That's possible, but I was unable to reduce the bass enough using the Technics apps. There was less, but it still didn't sound right to me. I ordered two sets and AZ60 earbuds and returned both of them because of the bass issue. I don't typically enjoy a lot of bass when I listen to music (just a normal amount), and preferred the CX Plus and WF-1000XM4 to the AZ60.


----------



## WeirdG

logiatype said:


> How's the mic work in Teams? Thinking of pulling the trigger on these.


I didn't test the mic audio so I can't say, but no one had issues hearing me. The only time people have had audio issues with me during Teams meetings is when I used the Jabra Elite Active 75t, but that had more to do with the mic position.


----------



## cresny

logiatype said:


> Issue with the Freebuds Pro 2 is bluetooth switching is pretty wonky. It won't pause audio when a MS Teams call comes in. Thanks for the list.


Yup, the FreeBuds do have some switching issues. For me it's a drop on volume going from phone to MacBook. If multipoint and calls are high priority then there's another reason to check out the AT-TWX9, great clarity and flawless switching.


----------



## XDT

erockg said:


> Large Devialet Gemini tips from my collection.  Fits in the case perfect.


Thanks! A follow up question- are you using an adapter to fit the tips onto the airpods? I haven’t seen non-Apple tips that fit before.


----------



## erockg

XDT said:


> Thanks! A follow up question- are you using an adapter to fit the tips onto the airpods? I haven’t seen non-Apple tips that fit before.


Happy to help.  Yes, I'm using the ePro tip adapters from their AirPods Pro tips and just swapped out the ePro tips with the Devialet tips.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B094QFSWLD/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

https://www.devialet.com/en-us/true-wireless-earbuds/new-eartips-offer/


----------



## erockg

erockg said:


> Trying out the new LG Tone Free T90 today.  Great fit. Tiny.  More soon when I have some alone time!


Well, I'm sending them back.  Not blown away.  They're good, but if you have AirPods Pro 2 or the new TWX9 which offer a similar form factor, you don't need to give them a whirl.  ANC is weak.  Sound is great, transparency fine, case is great, app is good, but APP2, TWX9, Bose QCII and the B&O EX beat them pretty easily.  So, if you have any of those, you can pass.  If they do knock about $75 off the T90, then sure, give them a shot.  Dolby Atmos is fun, but I prefer Spatial Audio and Samsung 360.  I honestly thought the T90s would take over the TWX9 spot, but nope.  Not today.


----------



## Caipirina

regancipher said:


> I just picked up the Soundpeats Air3 Deluxe HS, the first Soundpeats' LDAC release, which may be of interest to @Xinlisupreme . I guess they have released them to answer the competition, with Snapdragon Sound half-in-ear releases such as the Edifier W220T hitting the market, although I've only seen one semi-in-ear with LDAC previously (Yobybo X-Boat Pro).
> 
> So far really impressed. For a single driver they have nice depth to the soundstage and crisp (bordering on overcooked) trebles. Form factor is identical to the Air3.


for those interested, I am seeing them for currently 33.31$ on AliExpress with some coupon mojo. I know I am curious, but they would end up in the pile after a short while anyways. Got better at impulse control. Thought at least I can share here.


----------



## pokenguyen

erockg said:


> Well, I'm sending them back.  Not blown away.  They're good, but if you have AirPods Pro 2 or the new TWX9 which offer a similar form factor, you don't need to give them a whirl.  ANC is weak.  Sound is great, transparency fine, case is great, app is good, but APP2, TWX9, Bose QCII and the B&O EX beat them pretty easily.  So, if you have any of those, you can pass.  If they do knock about $75 off the T90, then sure, give them a shot.  Dolby Atmos is fun, but I prefer Spatial Audio and Samsung 360.  I honestly thought the T90s would take over the TWX9 spot, but nope.  Not today.


If I only care about SQ, and would turn off ANC for best SQ possible, what should I choose TWX9/B&O EX (240e) or Noble Fokus Pro (360e)


----------



## logiatype

erockg said:


> Well, I'm sending them back.  Not blown away.  They're good, but if you have AirPods Pro 2 or the new TWX9 which offer a similar form factor, you don't need to give them a whirl.  ANC is weak.  Sound is great, transparency fine, case is great, app is good, but APP2, TWX9, Bose QCII and the B&O EX beat them pretty easily.  So, if you have any of those, you can pass.  If they do knock about $75 off the T90, then sure, give them a shot.  Dolby Atmos is fun, but I prefer Spatial Audio and Samsung 360.  I honestly thought the T90s would take over the TWX9 spot, but nope.  Not today.


Between the EX and the TWX9, which one has the better mic and multipoint?


----------



## subguy812 (Nov 1, 2022)

logiatype said:


> Between the EX and the TWX9, which one has the better mic and multipoint?


Mic EX, multipoint TWX9, IMO


----------



## subguy812

pokenguyen said:


> If I only care about SQ, and would turn off ANC for best SQ possible, what should I choose TWX9/B&O EX (240e) or Noble Fokus Pro (360e)


I have never heard Noble. Pure sq alone between the other two is so subjective. The EX has been my sq pick since Day 1 of owning them. Then I got the TWX9 and that signature really checks my boxes. If I had to choose just one, I could be happy with either. I only have three now, the XM4 being the third. I am not interested in anything, but TOTL when it comes to TWS.


----------



## MisterMonsieur

After a couple of days with my newly acquired Galaxy Buds 2 Pro, gotta say it is a minor upgrade of the original one. Fit and anc wise it is a huge upgrade, I can wear it for hours. Just lovely.
More sub bass and smoother mids / treble is what I hear thus it sounds more neutral than the first gen galaxy buds pro.
. Once it is discounted, I am going to get another pair of GB2P as backup.


----------



## dweaver

I really like the GB2P as well. I try my other TWS and enjoy them but I keep coming back to these. The improvements are not monumental but cover every area except battery life and that is good enough for me.

Sound wise your impressions are spot on .


----------



## logiatype (Nov 1, 2022)

subguy812 said:


> Mic EX, multipoint TWX9, IMO


Can you elaborate on the TWX9 multipoint? Is there some trick to checkout from amazon JP? Seems to result in an error both times I've tried.


----------



## gabriely

logiatype said:


> Between the EX and the TWX9, which one has the better mic and multipoint?


I've tried a friend's ATH-TWX9 - IMO, the mic goes to EX pretty easily, though even then it's still a TWS over Bluetooth so it's not going to be perfect.

Can't comment on multipoint as I didn't try it, all I can say is I haven't had any connectivity issues with my EX.


----------



## erockg

pokenguyen said:


> If I only care about SQ, and would turn off ANC for best SQ possible, what should I choose TWX9/B&O EX (240e) or Noble Fokus Pro (360e)


For me, SQ ONLY, this order:  NFP, B&O EX, TWX9.


----------



## erockg

logiatype said:


> Between the EX and the TWX9, which one has the better mic and multipoint?





subguy812 said:


> Mic EX, multipoint TWX9, IMO


 What he said.


----------



## erockg

logiatype said:


> Can you elaborate on the TWX9 multipoint? Is there some trick to checkout from amazon JP? Seems to result in an error both times I've tried.


The TWX9 can stay connected to two devices at once.  Not as flawless as say, my AirPods Pro 2, but it does work well for me.  No tricks on Amazon Japan.  When I did it, I made an account, even signed up for the free 30 days, then made the purchase.  Easy with no issues.  I'm sure you have, but maybe try a different browser?


----------



## cresny

logiatype said:


> Can you elaborate on the TWX9 multipoint? Is there some trick to checkout from amazon JP? Seems to result in an error both times I've tried.


It connects seamlessly with my Pixel phone and either my MacBook or chromebook, whichever I am using, usually automatically. If I am listening AptX on the Pixel and start a Zoom meeting on the MacBook, it handles the meeting as starting a call and interrupts the music, then resumes after meeting. However, if I start a Youtube on the computer, it actually pauses when I enable volume on it, then allows me to resume when I pause my Phone. I prefer this "selectively preemptive" approach, rather than straight auto-switching because otherwise I find there are too many false positives causing interruptions.


----------



## pigeontree

pokenguyen said:


> If I only care about SQ, and would turn off ANC for best SQ possible, what should I choose TWX9/B&O EX (240e) or Noble Fokus Pro (360e)


TWX9 arguably sound better with their ANC turned on!


----------



## subguy812

Did anyone get the multi-point update on the XM4's yet?


----------



## PixelSquish

WeirdG said:


> Yup... the bass is way more balanced with the WF-1000XM4. You can't get even get rid of it on AZ60. It's just a complete mess and muddy sounding. I can't hear any clear separation of instruments. Keep in mind, about 75% of music I listen to are Indie rock bands. I also listen to 80s music, 90s alternative, and some hiphop/rap/R&B, but most of the time it's Indie bands.
> 
> I'm not sure if I indicated it above but I also use the Wavelet app on my phone (OnePlus 8T) and loaded the plain EQ profile for the WF-1000XM4. I also swapped out the foam tips for some silicone ones. The silicone tips are much more comfortable for me to use, and likely alters the sound compared to the foam tips. The noise cancelling isn't as good with the silicone tips, but it's good enough for my use case.
> 
> I also find the CX Plus when using Wavelet with the CX Plus EQ profile loaded to be comparable to the Sonys. Definitely not the same though, because the Sonys sound is much more detailed. I find the Sonys soundstage is also a better too. I'm using aptX Adaptive with the CX Plus and LDAC with the WF-1000XM4.


I mean I understand sound is subjective but I have both and it's the complete opposite. Based upon reading every post I read on these buds before getting them, I've never heard anyone say that AZ 60 have more bass bias then the XM4. I mean literally the consensus was that they had a much more balance sound than the Sony's.

And having both and using both I can definitely see how that is exactly correct. 

On my XM4 I have to increase the equalizer on the higher ends. With the AZ 60 it's either a flat EQ or I boost the bass ase a little bit.


----------



## shooter

PixelSquish said:


> I mean I understand sound is subjective but I have both and it's the complete opposite. Based upon reading every post I read on these buds before getting them, I've never heard anyone say that AZ 60 have more bass bias then the XM4. I mean literally the consensus was that they had a much more balance sound than the Sony's.
> 
> And having both and using both I can definitely see how that is exactly correct.
> 
> On my XM4 I have to increase the equalizer on the higher ends. With the AZ 60 it's either a flat EQ or I boost the bass ase a little bit.


Couldn't agree more


----------



## Juturna

Is anyone planning on checking out the Moondrop Alice? I'm kinda intrigued even though their design is really out there honestly...


----------



## clerkpalmer

Juturna said:


> Is anyone planning on checking out the Moondrop Alice? I'm kinda intrigued even though their design is really out there honestly...


Looks pretty cool.  I think you should be the proverbial guinea pig:

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/moondrop-flagship-tws-alice-is-released.965484/


----------



## nekonhime

clerkpalmer said:


> Looks pretty cool.  I think you should be the proverbial guinea pig:
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/moondrop-flagship-tws-alice-is-released.965484/


No anc? I gonna skip this


----------



## Womaz (Nov 2, 2022)

I bought the Melomania touch a while ago but find they lack a bit of bass , even when I use the built in app to EQ.
Lets say if I spend say £200 to £300 what would you guys recommend ?

I think for the use they get , like out and about I do like a good level of bass impact .

Been reading about the NOBLE Fokus Pro and the Sony XM4


----------



## nekonhime

Womaz said:


> I bought the Melomania touch a while ago but find they lack a bit of bass , even when I use the built in app to EQ.
> Lets say if I spend say £200 to £300 what would you guys recommend ?
> 
> I think for the use they get , like out and about I do like a good level of bass impact .
> ...


Twx9, noble, ex or if you are kinky the ha fw1000t


----------



## clerkpalmer

nekonhime said:


> No anc? I gonna skip this


Yep.  Deal breaker IMHO.  ANC is basically a must have feature in any TWS at this point.



nekonhime said:


> Twx9, noble, ex or if you are kinky the ha fw1000t


Got my TWX9 today for the princely sum of $215.  What a wonderful world we live in where Amazon delivers a product at something like 40% of the USD equivalent in 3 days from _Japan!_  These are _stupid _good for the price.  Sound better than my Bose which I've been using almost exclusively after choosing them over the APP2.  If I had to pick between the EX and these, the EX have the edge in SQ but the gap isn't huge.  Something special in the tuning of the EX that goes beyond specs.  That said, the AT are definitely the poor man's EX.  I appreciate the balanced tuning and restraint when it comes to bass.  The app and EQ is solid as well.  I haven't put the ANC to the test yet so will see if they unseat the Bose.


----------



## nekonhime

clerkpalmer said:


> Yep.  Deal breaker IMHO.  ANC is basically a must have feature in any TWS at this point.
> 
> 
> Got my TWX9 today for the princely sum of $215.  What a wonderful world we live in where Amazon delivers a product at something like 40% of the USD equivalent in 3 days from _Japan!_  These are _stupid _good for the price.  Sound better than my Bose which I've been using almost exclusively after choosing them over the APP2.  If I had to pick between the EX and these, the EX have the edge in SQ but the gap isn't huge.  Something special in the tuning of the EX that goes beyond specs.  That said, the AT are definitely the poor man's EX.  I appreciate the balanced tuning and restraint when it comes to bass.  The app and EQ is solid as well.  I haven't put the ANC to the test yet so will see if they unseat the Bose.


Well, the twx9 will be the same price if not more with the ex when they released it here though.


----------



## trivik12

what do you folks think about Master and Dynamic MW07 at 32.99. Is it worth trying at that price. https://electronics.woot.com/offers/new-master-dynamic-mw07-true-wireless-earbuds


----------



## nekonhime

trivik12 said:


> what do you folks think about Master and Dynamic MW07 at 32.99. Is it worth trying at that price. https://electronics.woot.com/offers/new-master-dynamic-mw07-true-wireless-earbuds


If you like it, go for it really


----------



## HaliHarry

HA-Fw1000t still is my favorite choice in sq


----------



## nekonhime

HaliHarry said:


> HA-Fw1000t still is my favorite choice in sq


Same, after a while, the xm4, akg 400nc also become pale in compared to the 1000t


----------



## SynaestheticA

HaliHarry said:


> HA-Fw1000t still is my favorite choice in sq


Is that the one that is also known as the Victor? What's the deal their? Is it still JVC when it is the Victor?


----------



## nekonhime

SynaestheticA said:


> Is that the one that is also known as the Victor? What's the deal their? Is it still JVC when it is the Victor?


They are the same, Victor bought Jvc sometime ago


----------



## Juturna

nekonhime said:


> No anc? I gonna skip this


Yeah somehow I didn't actually notice that omission. 
They seem to completely focus on sound quality though, and I'm completely fine with not having ANC if the sound quality is at the level of Fokus Pro and other more audiophile-oriented TWS earbuds, since they're a lot cheaper than the Fokus Pro's, for an example. But I wouldn't want them as my only earbuds.

Now I don't believe that they WILL be as good as the Fokus Pros however, but that's a different story. I don't think these are meant to be a competitor to the Sony XM4's, MTW3's, Bose QCII's of the world that tries to be all-rounders, these seem to be all about sound. If they've succeeded I have no idea, haven't seen any reviews or anything yet.


----------



## Caipirina

Juturna said:


> You just jinxed it, bud!


Probably ... I am terribly itching to get something new .. and I see I could get the TWX9 here for 162us$ top used quality ... but but but ... someone recently also said they are not good for running .. sooooo .. I have no real reason to get them ... was running wonderfully with my Bose QCEB2 today ... 
Still looking at getting the APP2 in January, when I will be in N-America   

Somewhat curious about those Japan only 'Ambie' clip ons ...  might give them a listen when I have a chance


----------



## nekonhime

Caipirina said:


> Probably ... I am terribly itching to get something new .. and I see I could get the TWX9 here for 162us$ top used quality ... but but but ... someone recently also said they are not good for running .. sooooo .. I have no real reason to get them ... was running wonderfully with my Bose QCEB2 today ...
> Still looking at getting the APP2 in January, when I will be in N-America
> 
> Somewhat curious about those Japan only 'Ambie' clip ons ...  might give them a listen when I have a chance


Where you can get the 169 tag for the used twx9? Please tell me


----------



## subguy812 (Nov 3, 2022)

clerkpalmer said:


> Yep.  Deal breaker IMHO.  ANC is basically a must have feature in any TWS at this point.
> 
> 
> Got my TWX9 today for the princely sum of $215.  What a wonderful world we live in where Amazon delivers a product at something like 40% of the USD equivalent in 3 days from _Japan!_  These are _stupid _good for the price.  Sound better than my Bose which I've been using almost exclusively after choosing them over the APP2.  If I had to pick between the EX and these, the EX have the edge in SQ but the gap isn't huge.  Something special in the tuning of the EX that goes beyond specs.  That said, the AT are definitely the poor man's EX.  I appreciate the balanced tuning and restraint when it comes to bass.  The app and EQ is solid as well.  I haven't put the ANC to the test yet so will see if they unseat the Bose.


Now you understand when folks try to pin me down to answer which is best EX or TWX9, and I am wishy washy with my answer. IMO, the TWX9 improve in sq slightly with ANC. More than likely, it won't unseat Bose in ANC level, but the TWX9 is better than the EX in ANC.


----------



## Juturna

Caipirina said:


> Probably ... I am terribly itching to get something new .. and I see I could get the TWX9 here for 162us$ top used quality ... but but but ... someone recently also said they are not good for running .. sooooo .. I have no real reason to get them ... was running wonderfully with my Bose QCEB2 today ...
> Still looking at getting the APP2 in January, when I will be in N-America
> 
> Somewhat curious about those Japan only 'Ambie' clip ons ...  might give them a listen when I have a chance


I still think that looks like a sex toy meant to be used in two... let's say "places", at the same time.


----------



## Caipirina

nekonhime said:


> Where you can get the 169 tag for the used twx9? Please tell me


That would be here in Japan ...


----------



## tiagopinto

Womaz said:


> I bought the Melomania touch a while ago but find they lack a bit of bass , even when I use the built in app to EQ.
> Lets say if I spend say £200 to £300 what would you guys recommend ?
> 
> I think for the use they get , like out and about I do like a good level of bass impact .
> ...



I too have the MT but honestly I don’t find them lacking in bass. Your mileage does vary. I actually like their sound. But honestly I’m tired of their connection and charging (wonky sitting in case) quirks. 

So, I too am searching for the next “sensibly priced” TWS. My main goals are better SQ, but this time around I’d also like better transparency, ANC and possibly Qi. 

My current short list is: Free Byrd (230€), ATH-TWX9 (230€ but only in Japan), MTW3 (250€) and APP2 (299€).

I haven’t heard any of them, hence my ongoing indecision. The MTW3 are still on the list because I’m always curious about Sennheiser. The TWX9 are there because of others praise but they are not easily attainable. The APP2 are there because I’m in an Apple environment but they’re on the “too expensive” side. The Free Byrds may be the sweet spot but I’m very skeptical of buying without listening. 

I hadn’t listened to the MT before getting them. I just trusted @miserybeforethemusic , @samandhi and others comments on them. They were right. But we want more... and better.


----------



## dleblanc343

Here’s a fun game.

For iPhone users, I EQ’d TWX9 to match APP2’s frequency response (as best as I could) and it makes A/B’ing them “fairly” a lot more simple.

It sounds quite good, give it a try and your feedback. Mainly adds a sense of clarity and reduces midbass in favor of more sub bass punch.

This EQ will only be proven to sound like APP2 tonally through AAC codec. With android, you can use other codecs and TWX9 does sound a tad bit more analytical off the bat.


----------



## clerkpalmer

nekonhime said:


> Well, the twx9 will be the same price if not more with the ex when they released it here though.


You think it will be higher than $400 USD?


----------



## dleblanc343

clerkpalmer said:


> You think it will be higher than $400 USD?


TWX9 will be $299.00


----------



## logiatype

subguy812 said:


> Now you understand when folks try to pin me down to answer which is best EX or TWX9, and I am wishy washy with my answer. IMO, the TWX9 improve in sq slightly with ANC. More than likely, it won't unseat Bose in ANC level, but the TWX9 is better than the EX in ANC.


I read a lot of comments on the EX having crappy Bluetooth connectivity and not pairing all the time. Sounds like that's not your experience?


----------



## HaliHarry

SynaestheticA said:


> Is that the one that is also known as the Victor? What's the deal their? Is it still JVC when it is the Victor?


Victor is a subsidiary company of JVC
JVC stands for Victor Company of Japan
In Japan they are Victor, in America and Europe they are JVC


----------



## clerkpalmer

logiatype said:


> I read a lot of comments on the EX having crappy Bluetooth connectivity and not pairing all the time. Sounds like that's not your experience?


Mine were buggy - not as bad as the EQ but not polished in that regard.  Once paired no issues but pairing could be a chore which frankly is unacceptable even for $30 TWS.  I wouldn't not buy them over it however.


----------



## samandhi

Womaz said:


> I bought the Melomania touch a while ago but find they lack a bit of bass , even when I use the built in app to EQ.
> Lets say if I spend say £200 to £300 what would you guys recommend ?
> 
> I think for the use they get , like out and about I do like a good level of bass impact .
> ...


Honestly, I don't know if those others will make you happy either. AFAIK the MT are still considered one of the "bassiest" models you can buy without becoming "beats like", where the bass takes over the entire presentation. I mean, if you find the MT lacking in bass, I am not sure if there is anything out there that can give you the level that you want. The MT have always been known to be VERY boosted in that area. 

Unless you like nothing but bass, I might suggest that you are (possibly) having a fitment issue. That will indeed cause them to sound like they don't have much bass. Try some tip rolling and see if that might help?!


tiagopinto said:


> I too have the MT but honestly I don’t find them lacking in bass. Your mileage does vary. I actually like their sound. But honestly I’m tired of their connection and charging (wonky sitting in case) quirks.
> 
> So, I too am searching for the next “sensibly priced” TWS. My main goals are better SQ, but this time around I’d also like better transparency, ANC and possibly Qi.
> 
> ...


While I don't listen to them (or any TWS) as much as I used to, I still have mine and (still) don't have any issues at all. I must have gotten really, really lucky when I got mine, I think.

Thanks for trusting us (I really miss talking with @miserybeforethemusic), and glad that you approved of them. But, you are right, fast forward a few years, and I just think that buyers expect more for the money. I personally think that the sound quality alone makes them worth the asking price (still), but that is only because I haven't had any issues with mine. Now, from the standpoint of all the issues I have read about, I DON'T think they are worth that same money. 

Between the 4 pairs I currently have, I don't really need to upgrade any time soon (other than out of simple curiosity). So, I will keep them until such time as the battery no longer gives enough play time to make it even worth it.  Good luck in your hunt, though I would be 0 help to you (I am so far out of the loop for today's products).


----------



## jant71 (Nov 3, 2022)

nekonhime said:


> They are the same, Victor bought Jvc sometime ago


Um, what?  What do you think the V in JVC stands for? Originally Victor Company of Japan but then JVC.They have changed naming around but don't think they ever bought themselves. Maybe you are thinking of JVC buying Kenwood.


----------



## BooleanBones

jant71 said:


> Um, what?  What do you think the V in JVC stands for? Originally Victor Company of Japan but then JVC.They have changed naming around but don't think they ever bought themselves. Maybe you are thinking of JVC buying Kenwood.


… yep, and now JVCKenwood 😊


----------



## erockg

jant71 said:


> Um, what?  What do you think the V in JVC stands for? Originally Victor Company of Japan but then JVC.They have changed naming around but don't think they ever bought themselves. Maybe you are thinking of JVC buying Kenwood.





BooleanBones said:


> … yep, and now JVCKenwood 😊


----------



## gabriely

logiatype said:


> I read a lot of comments on the EX having crappy Bluetooth connectivity and not pairing all the time. Sounds like that's not your experience?


Wha, really? New to the scene and am super surprised to hear this - don't think I've ever had much issues with the EX


----------



## jant71

Not a TWS but AT is releasing a special BT headphone...






A wooden model with two L/R DAC's...

"For the DAC chip, a total of two ESS DAC "ES9038Q2M" are used, one on each side. It is said that it achieves lower noise and lower distortion than before. The operational amplifier is equipped with the flagship chip "MUSES05" of the MUSES series made by Nisshinbo Microdevices (formerly New Japan Radio). Mutual interference is eliminated by a two-chip configuration with separate input and output stages, and ultra-low distortion is achieved by a fully balanced differential amplifier circuit.        

Equipped with a newly designed φ45mm HD driver. The diaphragm is molded in our own factory, manufactured using a new manufacturing method that produces high-resolution low frequencies, and is coated with DLC to improve high-frequency reproducibility. By incorporating this into the driver, it is possible to achieve high-response and expressive broadband playback."

It does have multipoint and LDAC. Special large 10mm condenser mic for calls. Being more about SQ it will only get 9 hours of battery life though. Some might complain about paying over $2,500 and getting only 9 hours of battery life. It can be used wired but only comes with USB C to A and C to C cables.


----------



## logiatype

gabriely said:


> Wha, really? New to the scene and am super surprised to hear this - don't think I've ever had much issues with the EX


Welcome! Well hopefully not; just ordered them


----------



## bladefd

Seems nothing new being announced lately in the tws department. I guess companies are on edge about potential upcoming recession (we may already be in one). Conditions could get worse so companies might just be hunkering down.


----------



## erockg

KEF dropped the price on the Mu3 $129.99.  Something new could be brewing.  These are very much worth it at this price.  I'm thinking about repurchasing.  Sound is great.  ANC and Transparency is not.  But fit and form factor is great.

https://us.kef.com/products/mu3?gcl...V6s8FpTrTwkAl8qPc1u5xwba79wRClkxoCYogQAvD_BwE


----------



## clerkpalmer

clerkpalmer said:


> I haven't put the ANC to the test yet so will see if they unseat the Bose.


TWX9 ANC = Meh.  Not Bose or Sony or even close for that matter.  Takes the edge off.  Like 1 beer instead of 6.  Not the end of the world, but not great.


----------



## clerkpalmer

bladefd said:


> Seems nothing new being announced lately in the tws department. I guess companies are on edge about potential upcoming recession (we may already be in one). Conditions could get worse so companies might just be hunkering down.


I think this is what happens when the technology is mature.  All that's left to do is pump out different form factors with minor upgrades.  Kind of like cell phones.  There's no room to innovate.  Even upgrades to hi-res etc. are likely to not matter much to the masses.


----------



## pokenguyen

nekonhime said:


> If you like it, go for it really


Your comment makes me buy Victor instead of Beoplay EX/Noble Fokus Pro. Hope it works because I can't return to amazon jp.


----------



## SynaestheticA

bladefd said:


> Seems nothing new being announced lately in the tws department. I guess companies are on edge about potential upcoming recession (we may already be in one). Conditions could get worse so companies might just be hunkering down.


Don't they know that we will be spending any stimulus on new tws?


----------



## WeirdG

PixelSquish said:


> I mean I understand sound is subjective but I have both and it's the complete opposite. Based upon reading every post I read on these buds before getting them, I've never heard anyone say that AZ 60 have more bass bias then the XM4. I mean literally the consensus was that they had a much more balance sound than the Sony's.
> 
> And having both and using both I can definitely see how that is exactly correct.
> 
> On my XM4 I have to increase the equalizer on the higher ends. With the AZ 60 it's either a flat EQ or I boost the bass ase a little bit.


That's so strange. I left the AZ60 EQ flat and the bass was just so overpowering. Like I said, I even tried with two different sets of AZ60s. The exact same results. I got some MTW3's today, and they sound more like the XM4 after I EQ'd them using Crin's MTW3 EQ profile. The bass is definitely tighter than the XM4's, but I still prefer the XM4's sound.

I wonder if the device is the reason for the difference in audio? I'm using a OnePlus 8T with LDAC for the XM4 and the aptX Adaptive for the MTW3. I'm also using the same silicone tips with both earbuds, just so I get a proper fit. I'm not a fan of the foam tips that come with the XM4's.


----------



## dweaver

erockg said:


> KEF dropped the price on the Mu3 $129.99.  Something new could be brewing.  These are very much worth it at this price.  I'm thinking about repurchasing.  Sound is great.  ANC and Transparency is not.  But fit and form factor is great.
> 
> https://us.kef.com/products/mu3?gcl...V6s8FpTrTwkAl8qPc1u5xwba79wRClkxoCYogQAvD_BwE


These have been as low as $99 Cad in Canada at Visions Electronics. Wish I had jumped when that low a price...


----------



## Womaz (Nov 4, 2022)

samandhi said:


> Honestly, I don't know if those others will make you happy either. AFAIK the MT are still considered one of the "bassiest" models you can buy without becoming "beats like", where the bass takes over the entire presentation. I mean, if you find the MT lacking in bass, I am not sure if there is anything out there that can give you the level that you want. The MT have always been known to be VERY boosted in that area.
> 
> Unless you like nothing but bass, I might suggest that you are (possibly) having a fitment issue. That will indeed cause them to sound like they don't have much bass. Try some tip rolling and see if that might help?!
> 
> ...


Yes you may have a point there . I did try some comply foam tips as for me they always seem to add some bass. From what I remember they would not fit in the charging case and I don’t want to have to take them off every time I am not using them.
I looked recently to get those comply tips again too,give them another try and they are £30 on Amazon …….so I decided not to 😀😀

As I dont use IEMs a great deal then maybe I am expecting too much in the bass area.
I don’t like the bass overpowering everything but I think l do prefer more bass when I am outside .


----------



## Juturna

dweaver said:


> These have been as low as $99 Cad in Canada at Visions Electronics. Wish I had jumped when that low a price...


It's so annoying how you sometimes get those sick deals in NA, seems like Europe never gets any deals like that. The cheapest I can find the Mu3's for here in my country is around $300 (USD, not CAD) and even on Kef's EU shop they're still €229 lol... And the american webstore doesn't seem to ship anywhere else but the US, it seems like.


----------



## samandhi

Womaz said:


> Yes you may have a point there . I did try some comply foam tips as for me they always seem to add some bass. From what I remember they would not fit in the charging case and I don’t want to have to take them off every time I am not using them.
> I looked recently to get those comply tips again too,give them another try and they are £30 on Amazon …….so I decided not to 😀😀
> 
> As I dont use IEMs a great deal then maybe I am expecting too much in the bass area.
> I don’t like the bass overpowering everything but I think l do prefer more bass when I am outside .


For me, fitment has always been an issue. The MT can only use the shorter "TWS" tips and still be able to fit into the charging case. This presents a problem for me because the way my ears are shaped, I cannot use any TWS/IEMs that just sit on the outside of my ear canals. 

Having said that, I think in the end I finally settled on the Spinfit 360s IIRC. They aren't perfect, and I have to work with them a bit more to get them to be seated in my ears, but it seems that once I get them settled, they are fine. These also fit into the case (though only just) to charge them.


----------



## tiagopinto (Nov 4, 2022)

samandhi said:


> Honestly, I don't know if those others will make you happy either. AFAIK the MT are still considered one of the "bassiest" models you can buy without becoming "beats like", where the bass takes over the entire presentation. I mean, if you find the MT lacking in bass, I am not sure if there is anything out there that can give you the level that you want. The MT have always been known to be VERY boosted in that area.
> 
> Unless you like nothing but bass, I might suggest that you are (possibly) having a fitment issue. That will indeed cause them to sound like they don't have much bass. Try some tip rolling and see if that might help?!



You’re reading my mind. And it’s not the first time, hehe.



samandhi said:


> While I don't listen to them (or any TWS) as much as I used to, I still have mine and (still) don't have any issues at all. I must have gotten really, really lucky when I got mine, I think.
> 
> Thanks for trusting us (I really miss talking with @miserybeforethemusic), and glad that you approved of them. But, you are right, fast forward a few years, and I just think that buyers expect more for the money. I personally think that the sound quality alone makes them worth the asking price (still), but that is only because I haven't had any issues with mine. Now, from the standpoint of all the issues I have read about, I DON'T think they are worth that same money.
> 
> Between the 4 pairs I currently have, I don't really need to upgrade any time soon (other than out of simple curiosity). So, I will keep them until such time as the battery no longer gives enough play time to make it even worth it.  Good luck in your hunt, though I would be 0 help to you (I am so far out of the loop for today's products).



Of course I trusted you, in more than one issue. And I don’t regret it at all. I miss him too.

I had mine replaced and I too was lucky with the replacement. It’s just that lately the right bud has been acting up with connectivity and playing music while in the case and sometimes not charging. That’s why, although I still like the sound and fit, which really ARE important, there’s not much else I like about them. Hence my desire for an upgrade.


----------



## Caipirina

dweaver said:


> These have been as low as $99 Cad in Canada at Visions Electronics. Wish I had jumped when that low a price...


Starting shopping list "when in Canada"


----------



## Caipirina

Darn ... was just switching back and forth between the Bose QCEB2 and the Airpods Max over ears ... and wow, the Bose beat those as well in SQ and ANC ... and they are so much more comfy ... 
Curious how that will play out on next plane trip ... 
On last trip I did not bring the Airpods Max because they are just so much heavier than the Bose QC35, my travel go-to over ears ...


----------



## SynaestheticA

Alright, I usually like to write my reviews a little tipsy. Other than the 2 bottles of wine tonight I'm sober as a bean. So here goes.

Unboxed the recently finished crowdfunded *Morph Infiniconnect *today. If you aren't clued up these are the most recent crowdfunding campaign of TWS that comes with a charging case that doubles as a control panel. You can easily switch between devices using the panel rather than your phone, laptop or tv (Writing that makes me feel like i've been reading too much marketing for this project). 

*Design*
Part of me feels bad for the Morph team, this was all designed and thought out before the last year of non stop multi point connection devices were released. Also JBL have recently had an article written up about them being the first smart case designed tws, now had this crowdfunding campaign gone any longer they might have been. But the morph arrived late although not too late to claim #1. 

That being said the JBL looks a lot more like the original conception of the Morph Inficonnect. Which leads me to the first thing you are going to hear every reviewer mention about them. The case is, well, you know the meme of Wardy Joubert? You know, the guy on the edge of the bed, naked, with pixels being the only things to hide his member......A lot....of pixels.

Well these are also a two handed job. Once you take the protective outer rubber layer off them the size is dramatically reduced and since you are going to hear about their size non stop in the coming months (Or even worse, you won't hear anything about Morph, nothing worse than irrelevance) I will leave it there.

*Connection*
The connection is simple, you prepare bluetooth connection from the case and then pair on your device. Swapping between two Android phones is so far seamless.

*Features (kinda)*
They have transparency and ANC, both of which comes with more than a slight noise before audio is played. My brain quickly adapted to this and before I knew it I thought the noise was simply a by product of a fan I was around, all of a sudden....no noise, turning them off and on again confirmed that I wasn't crazy and simply that the mind is a marvelous thing. 

The presence of activity appears to remove the noise, but while in standby it's apparent. Another thing that surely would have been solved had this campaign started today and finished in 2024, however by then there would be a whole lot more things we would be expecting that I'm starting to think a crowdfunding campaign just isn't agile enough for.

I think ANC is on by default when buds are pulled from the case which I think is a psychotic decision. I am starting to think I am one of the few people who doesn't appreciate ANC, but I don't listen to ambient music when I'm out for a run nor do I like the silent sweeps of a James Blake track when I'm slamming weights at the gym and not putting them away afterwards. Default ANC Stopped me getting the very cool looking Earfun/Edifier Neobuds Pro.

Oh there is also in ear detection which I think is only good for turning music off when you pull a bud out, maybe there are more uses to it.

*Comfort*
Very comfortable, I ordered mine with ear hooks for sports which they didn't forget and for that I am very grateful (Grateful for a company not forgetting the thing you paid for? Welcome to the future of crowdfunding)

Very different from the original design which is a bit of a shame, i preferred the oval bone shaped design that was pitched than the round design we ended up with, but they look pretty decent once in.

*SOUND QUALITY*
The only thing that I think actually matters. And clearly if everyone is happy with that weird ass-looking L3P then it's the only thing you care about too. Be honest, those look about as cool as grandma in a backwards cap. Which is still kinda cool, but not as cool as grandma on a skateboard. I'm off topic. 

I've recently been testing the Earfun Free Pro 2, then again with Oluv's presets and my Nuarls which are more or less regarded as neutral. So i've pretty much stuck myself with neutral buds despite a quest for big bassy boys, I'm starting to think the bass I've so far experienced is about as good as it gets. crap, i'm digressing again.

These are about as good as any of them. Low ends become more apparent at higher volumes and give you a bit of a shake. The mids are clear and powerful. The V shape description doesn't make sense to me, I wont get into it but to me it implies heavy bass, no mids and piercing highs. Who would make sound like that? Mids are the best bit, then bass then high's. So these are good. It isn't particularly messy in the few Goa tracks I ran them through, there is plenty of thump and although highs were occasionally piercing I hope after a little burn in that subsides.

Their isn't the worlds best separation but after ****ing around with bud after bud and eq presets and blah blah blah I currently appreciate a set of buds that are just as they are.

I don't have anything to compare them too really, they are better than my Fiil T1 and my crowdfunded Hyphens, there, happy?

And that's about it, got to use them a lot more over the next few weeks to get a real feel for their utility but so far happy I got em. Well done Morph, hope the animals on the crowdfunding campaign don't destroy what is left of your human spirit. Good luck out there


----------



## samandhi

tiagopinto said:


> You’re reading my mind. And it’s not the first time, hehe.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I don't blame you for wanting to upgrade. There shouldn't exist the issues that persist with these. Don't get me wrong. I very much appreciate that CA kept trying to fix issues throughout, but in all honesty, there shouldn't have been all these issues before they released them to begin with. 

For the amount of money they were asking for them (in the beginning), the QC should have been spot-on IMHO. It seems that more and more companies (nowadays) are skipping this step, or at least not doing it properly, to save money (or actually make more). I am of the opinion that an exorbitant amount of greed will (at some point) bite them in the "you know what"...


----------



## clerkpalmer

Caipirina said:


> Darn ... was just switching back and forth between the Bose QCEB2 and the Airpods Max over ears ... and wow, the Bose beat those as well in SQ and ANC ... and they are so much more comfy ...
> Curious how that will play out on next plane trip ...
> On last trip I did not bring the Airpods Max because they are just so much heavier than the Bose QC35, my travel go-to over ears ...


Completely agree.  The Bose render over ear noise cancelling cans of the consumer variety (i.e. Apple, Bose themselves and Sony) unnecessary.  They are every bit as good at both SQ and ANC.  I sold off my APM.


----------



## zObiToz

Just picked up APP2 from local store yesterday. Here is my first quick thought about it (~221$) vs Oppo Enco X2 (~92$) - which I have been used for about 10 days.

*Design*
Quite similar between the two, stem style, glossy white color, small and pocketable case (APP2's case is a bit smaller). Both are scratched and get dirt easily.

*Comfort & Fit*
About fitting, I got a good and comfortable fit with the default L size tips of Enco X2, but non of the default tips of APP2 give me that level of fit and comfort. I switched to the M size Azla SednaEarfit MAX with CP1025 adapter and feel a lot better. I didn't use the CP1025 tips because it even worse than the default tips.
For me, after get a good fit, they both really comfortable. They are the most TWS I ever used. I feel a bit more comfortable with the Enco X2 but not much, maybe because its tips fit me better. But APP2 have an edge if you are an side-sleeper, I will feel a little discomfort when sleep on side with the Enco X2 while with APP2 I have zero discomfort.

*Connection*
Let be clear, I am an iPhone user for 2 years and this is my first Airpod after Samsung Buds Plus, MTW2, Gemini, MTW3, Enco X2. Before getting this APP2, I have heard many good things about how fast, how convenient when using Airpod with Apple devices. But after having this APP2, to be honest, I don't really impressed. Maybe because right now I am not having an Apple ecosystem to use the features which I think are really convenient such as seamlessly switching between devices, share listening with other's Airpod. The Apple devices I currently have are only one iPhone and one Apple Watch, no iPad, no Macbook, no iMac,...

For now, the two features I have used is (1) simple setup step at the first time connected the APP2 to my iPhone and (2) I don't need to download a separate App to control it. For the (1) feature, it convenient but I think I still be fine without it, with my two recent TWS before APP2,  the MTW3 and the Enco X2, the setup step with iPhone although is not as simple as the Airpod approach but still very easy and straightforward. Plus, you don't do it everyday, just one time. And I also don't mind downloading separate App to control my earbuds, especially when some give me the ability to EQ them.

About the connection speed when open the case and takeout the buds, my Enco X2 connected as fast as APP2 do, while the MTW3 is slower about 1-2 seconds.

Next is the multi-point connection, as I said before, I don't have other iDevices to take advantage of the APP2 multi-point feature. While with Enco X2, It support me to connect to two device at the same time, no matter it is Apple device or not, so I can connect with one more device such as my Windows PC or my Pixel and switching between them.

*ANC*
About the ANC performance, the APP2 is better than Enco X2. But Enco X2 have Smart mode, which will auto control the ANC level base on the noise level of the environment, this features make me feel less pressure when using Enco X2.
Now come to the biggest problem of the APP2, it is the noise when using APP2 ANC in a windy enviroment. The APP2 are really really bad of cutting the wind noise when using ANC, when using APP2 while cycling all I hear is wind noise, it even louder than my music and is unusable. Really disappointed, hoping Apple will fix this soon via software update.

*Transparency mode*
The only thing APP2 do noticeably better than Enco X2. The voice is louder, clearer and more nature than the Enco X2

*Sound*
I will not go to detail but for me the APP2 sound is good enough but the Enco X2 is better.
Here is my rank of my currently owning TWS
Devialet Gemini > MTW3 > Enco X2 > APP2


----------



## Sam L

Anyone pick up the nothing ear buds?


----------



## erockg

Sam L said:


> Anyone pick up the nothing ear buds?


Which ones?  I hand the Nothing 1 buds.  They are great, decent features for the price, but I prefer others with the same form factor.  Posted about them somewhere in this thread a while back.  Haven't tried the new Stick ones yet.


----------



## Sam L

erockg said:


> Which ones?  I hand the Nothing 1 buds.  They are great, decent features for the price, but I prefer others with the same form factor.  Posted about them somewhere in this thread a while back.  Haven't tried the new Stick ones yet.


Nothing Ear Stick (not the previous version with anc, these are more akin to the airpods)


----------



## erockg

Sam L said:


> Nothing Ear Stick (not the previous version with anc, these are more akin to the airpods)


Yah, I'm sure they'll be similar.  Haven't seen them on Amazon or the like here in the US.  Nice products, but the clear plastic everywhere was blah.  Pleasantly surprised by what they jammed in there for the price though.


----------



## logiatype (Nov 4, 2022)

logiatype said:


> Welcome! Well hopefully not; just ordered them


@gabriely Just arrived and 10 minutes in... wow these are good. Will post thoughts after some time but Beoplay Ex... well played.

Initial things that stick out:
1. Excellent calls (quality I hear and mics).
2. The music has a presence I haven't heard on TWS before. The bass is really textured.
3. Supremely comfortable.
4. No initial buyers remorse... which I get no matter what I buy.
5. It does exactly what I need. Calls come in on teams? Music pauses. Call ends? iPhone continues music.


----------



## BooleanBones

logiatype said:


> @gabriely Just arrived and 10 minutes in... wow these are good. Will post thoughts after some time but Beoplay Ex... well played.
> 
> Initial things that stick out:
> 1. Excellent calls (quality I hear and mics).
> ...


you forgot waterproof  love mine.


----------



## logiatype

BooleanBones said:


> you forgot waterproof  love mine.


Wild. I haven't been this happy to spend $350 on TWS. Fingers crossed but seriously impressed with these EX. Long considered B&O to be a ridiculous company but sometimes, you really get what you pay for.


----------



## nekonhime

US $111.86  53%OFF | Gunpla TWS Bluetooth5.2 Earphones Unicorn Gundam RX-0 Noise Cancellation Headset Low Delay Waterproof  Wireless Gaming Headphone
https://a.aliexpress.com/_mqUmVda
Anyone want to try this bad boy?


----------



## nekonhime

pokenguyen said:


> Your comment makes me buy Victor instead of Beoplay EX/Noble Fokus Pro. Hope it works because I can't return to amazon jp.


I guess good luck, I love mine to dead though


----------



## raymanh

Hi folks,

What are some decent $200ish stem type TWS?

So far I'm considering...

Oppo Enco X2
Soundcore Liberty 4

Anymore to consider?


----------



## gabriely

logiatype said:


> @gabriely Just arrived and 10 minutes in... wow these are good. Will post thoughts after some time but Beoplay Ex... well played.
> 
> Initial things that stick out:
> 1. Excellent calls (quality I hear and mics).
> ...


I'm so happy you love them. They are great - the price point is bit steep, but that's the only big problem I have with them. That and ANC/transparency aren't great. Beyond that, on every other front they just work beautifully. Even in the pool or in the bath! Hahaha


----------



## Juturna

After trying the Galaxy Buds Live for awhile, I do have some thoughts about them. I know they're pretty much old news at this point, but there might still be some interest I guess. 
They're definitely NOT all bass as somebody said, on the contrary the bass is definitely the leanest frequency here. 
I'm gonna say it like this, it's not impossible to get bass from these earbuds - If you wear them incorrectly and try to shove them in your ears as if they were in-ear earbuds. 

Getting a good fit with these is however very tough, because it's so easy to shift these just a little bit incorrectly and it makes the sound quality very poor/very different when your fit is different between the two earbuds, and just finding the way to wear them is also difficult - because it's just so damn different from how I would wear most other earbuds. 
I think it's very interesting though to have earbuds where you can so clearly hear the world around you and I see them at least getting some use at my office for an example. I was cuddling with my partner earlier and could listen to music for myself while I was talking to her which was really nice honestly. 

They dont sound anywhere near as good as a pair of ordinary TWS's however, but if somebody has specific requirements of hearing their environments but want a little background soundtrack these are definitely interesting for the price. This type of fit will probably be perfected later on, but it's definitely interesting.


----------



## harpdoc

raymanh said:


> Hi folks,
> 
> What are some decent $200ish stem type TWS?
> 
> ...


ATH-TWX9


----------



## dweaver

raymanh said:


> Hi folks,
> 
> What are some decent $200ish stem type TWS?
> 
> ...


Having owned several Soundcore products including one stem style, a couples Liberty Pro models and the A40. I can say Soundcore delivers in every area and does it more affordably than others. Combine this with good reviews coming out about the Liberty 4 I would say go that direction.


----------



## zObiToz

Hey TWX9 owners, have you guys tried using TWX9 while running or cycling in a windy environment? Does the ANC blockout the wind noise well? Currently using APP2, while the ANC is amazing in normal environment, it can’t deal with the wind, I can’t hear the music because wind noise is too much.


----------



## llmgtab

I am considering purchasing the ATH-TWX9 - they seem to check all the boxes of what I am looking for. One question for those that have so many styles. I have issues with some buds because of a shortened concha on once side - for example the Galaxy buds 2 I have will pop out of place sometimes. I tried the Liberty 3 as well can I really don't like the fit. This is why I have been searching for a stem style to try out. But the ATH-TWX9 seems a bit large compared to some. For reference the buds I use the most are the Galaxy beans live (with no 'wings' to have them fit). I think these will work for me.


----------



## cresny

llmgtab said:


> I am considering purchasing the ATH-TWX9 - they seem to check all the boxes of what I am looking for. One question for those that have so many styles. I have issues with some buds because of a shortened concha on once side - for example the Galaxy buds 2 I have will pop out of place sometimes. I tried the Liberty 3 as well can I really don't like the fit. This is why I have been searching for a stem style to try out. But the ATH-TWX9 seems a bit large compared to some. For reference the buds I use the most are the Galaxy beans live (with no 'wings' to have them fit). I think these will work for me.


They will probably work for you because they include ear tips of 3 different depths x 4 different circumferences, so you have 144 different combinations to choose from 🙂.


----------



## cresny

zObiToz said:


> Hey TWX9 owners, have you guys tried using TWX9 while running or cycling in a windy environment? Does the ANC blockout the wind noise well? Currently using APP2, while the ANC is amazing in normal environment, it can’t deal with the wind, I can’t hear the music because wind noise is too much.


No they are rather poor for that particular use. So far my favorite for cycling are the Huawei Freebuds 2.


----------



## raymanh

harpdoc said:


> ATH-TWX9



Issue with that is that there's a lot of bulk up top- it's still got a rather pronounced "head" compared to the likes of the Enco X2 and Liberty 4. I need a stem type with a relatively small "head" because my... let me Google it a sec... crus of helix is quite apparent:


----------



## harpdoc

zObiToz said:


> Hey TWX9 owners, have you guys tried using TWX9 while running or cycling in a windy environment? Does the ANC blockout the wind noise well? Currently using APP2, while the ANC is amazing in normal environment, it can’t deal with the wind, I can’t hear the music because wind noise is too much.


Tried them skiing and cycling. Wind was, as expected, too much for ambient mode. ANC was great for skiing, better than off mode. Cycling on an ebike at over 25 mph was too much for ANC to handle. It was fine in off mode and provided some relief from wind noise. That's the only reason I had them in, I wasn't playing music.


----------



## freelancr

TWS Sound Demo - QCY T18 vs Lenovo XT98 vs Huawei Freebuds Pro 2 vs Devialet Gemini

Budget sets get better and better. Personally I like the Lenovos more than the QCY. The Freebuds and the Geminis are both fantastic. Devialet put some magic sauce in these. Makes me wonder how their speakers sound like.


----------



## SynaestheticA

regancipher said:


> The Morph Audio Infiniconnect (basically Tronsmart Apollo Bold with less bass and a massive charge case).


Before you review these I suggest changing the tips to something more to your liking. 

I wasn't super into the sound but just changed to Azla Crystals and wow. A world of difference. Massive bass and the clarity is improved one hundred fold


----------



## cresny

raymanh said:


> Issue with that is that there's a lot of bulk up top- it's still got a rather pronounced "head" compared to the likes of the Enco X2 and Liberty 4. I need a stem type with a relatively small "head" because my... let me Google it a sec... crus of helix is quite apparent:


TWX9 is particularly tip oriented in its fit, and that's why they provide so many possible combinations, including as I mentioned above depth choices, something I've never seen offered in other TWS packages. The body - I think that's what you mean by head - is less significant than it is with some other TWS where the whole thing needs to nestle into your ear. With the TWX9 it's a combination of having a snug fit in your ear canal with the tips, with the stem bracing against the earlobe, based on tip length. Hope that helps!


----------



## C_Lindbergh (Nov 6, 2022)

F*ck! I forgot the TWS9 in my pants and washed them in the machine...They're not completely dead, the earbuds seems to be working (even tho sound is a bit muffled, but should be fixed once they dry). But the case is just blinking red and is refusing to charge.

Hmm might get the MTW3 again now that Senn has released a major update for them, or maybe something cheap and just wait for next years big releases (which hopefully will mean the latest Qualcomm SoC with support for Aptx Lossless/LE-audio).


----------



## dweaver (Nov 6, 2022)

Off topic but I am excited so am going to say it anyway.

I have been using a smartwatch the past 10 years and had switched to a Fitbit Sense a couple years ago because of a gift from my Mom. When she bought the watch she bought an extended warranty...

Over the paste 2 years I pretty much use the watch daily because it has good general wellness stats and an excellent battery.

The only issue being the stupid charging cable failing.

During the 2 years I gave in to temptation and bought a Galaxy Watch 4. I hardly ever use it due to poor sleep tracking, poor calorie tracking, missed steps... And HORRIBLE battery life...

Anyway new Sense 2 was released a couple months ago and I was very tempted. But early review complained about the missing smart watch feature so I waited patiently even though I could care less about wifi, music, watch payments, or 3rd party apps.

Early this week I saw the Sense to go on sale for $260Cad and started to think harder. Then my watch stopped charging... (Likely just the garbage charging cable...). Dug up the warranty stuff and took it in the Best Buy, they offered to give me a new watch and brought me the original Sense model. I asked can I upgrade? They said sure, just pay the difference, I said OK.

They grab a Sense 2 and I say what's the price? They go $260 and I say what's the price of the Sense? They go $330. So I got $70+ back. I then asked how much for 2 year extended warranty? Price was $70. So for zero dollars paid I now have a brand new Sense 2 watch with a new 2 year extended warranty . It was like Christmas came early!!! LOL.

Sure looks purty on my wrist... LMAO


----------



## davescleveland

What major update has Sennheiser released for tw3?


----------



## TK33

C_Lindbergh said:


> F*ck! I forgot the TWS9 in my pants and washed them in the machine...They're not completely dead, the earbuds seems to be working (even tho sound is a bit muffled, but should be fixed once they dry). But the case is just blinking red and is refusing to charge.
> 
> Hmm might get the MTW3 again now that Senn has released a major update for them, or maybe something cheap and just wait for next years big releases (which hopefully will mean the latest Qualcomm SoC with support for Aptx Lossless/LE-audio).


Sorry to hear. I am probably long overdue for this to happen to me.  Great that these things are so mall now but there is always this risk...

I have been really happy with my MTW3, especially now that is has multipoint.  Only complaint is that it isnt that great for phone calls (would love side tone or even transparency mode activating).  I usually just use one ear if I have to use MTW3s for calls.  Prefer the Linkbuds or Buds Live for calls.  Other than that, I think they sound great with a little EQ.


davescleveland said:


> What major update has Sennheiser released for tw3?


Probably refeering to the last update (or last two updates if you updated prior to the first multipoint update getting pulled) that finally enabled multipoint, among other updates.  They also added a High Resolution Audio mode for those who have an aptX Adaptive capable source (i think it forces 24/96 mode when using aptX Adaptive).  Not sure what the other updates were because I think I forgot to take a screenshot this time around but im sure it is somewhere if you search online.


----------



## MaxwellDemon

C_Lindbergh said:


> F*ck! I forgot the TWS9 in my pants and washed them in the machine...They're not completely dead, the earbuds seems to be working (even tho sound is a bit muffled, but should be fixed once they dry). But the case is just blinking red and is refusing to charge.
> 
> Hmm might get the MTW3 again now that Senn has released a major update for them, or maybe something cheap and just wait for next years big releases (which hopefully will mean the latest Qualcomm SoC with support for Aptx Lossless/LE-audio).


Oh no!! Maybe see if drying them completely will help... ouch though.


----------



## TIEM

TK33 said:


> Probably refeering to the last update (or last two updates if you updated prior to the first multipoint update getting pulled) that finally enabled multipoint, among other updates.  They also added a High Resolution Audio mode for those who have an aptX Adaptive capable source (i think it forces 24/96 mode when using aptX Adaptive).  Not sure what the other updates were because I think I forgot to take a screenshot this time around but im sure it is somewhere if you search online.


Another added feature that I can't thank Senn enough for is that the touch features on the buds get disabled when the buds are not in your ears. So no more accidental touches when I remove and place them on a table. Before this update I almost went deaf once because I accidentally had increased the volume to the max when they were lying on the desk. The multipoint is obviously the highlight of the update.

Loving the MTW3, I keep getting tempted to try the TWX9 but then I put on some of my fav. tracks on the MTW3 and better sense prevails. The instrument separation is so damn good. But I had to tweak the tunning by lowering the bass and increasing the treble - perfect.


----------



## soullinker20

I am on the fence on the MTW3 and considering another pair of xm4. currently using MTW2 anniv. edition and my xm4s are having the battery drain issues now. downgraded to 1.3.3. but i guess the damage has been done it still drains faster.


----------



## Sam L

C_Lindbergh said:


> F*ck! I forgot the TWS9 in my pants and washed them in the machine...They're not completely dead, the earbuds seems to be working (even tho sound is a bit muffled, but should be fixed once they dry). But the case is just blinking red and is refusing to charge.
> 
> Hmm might get the MTW3 again now that Senn has released a major update for them, or maybe something cheap and just wait for next years big releases (which hopefully will mean the latest Qualcomm SoC with support for Aptx Lossless/LE-audio).


ouch. definitely feels bad. I did that with my xm4's the second day after receiving them. lol
hopefully the case will be functional after completely drying out?


----------



## webvan

Still experimenting with "closed" TWSs for running to replace my trusty "open" X12s...after the Bomaker SiFi II, ok but pretty "thuddy" and audio not spectacular, I tried the EarFun Free Pro 2 and they sound better (ANC off of course due to the wind noise) but don't stay in place quite as well. I've heard good things about the Jaybird Vista 2 so they're probably next. Any other suggestions?


----------



## logiatype

Second full day with Beoplay Ex. So far, been pretty solid all around. Really enjoying how they just disappear in my ears. Have to keep checking to makes sure they are secure.

Default tips are pretty awful; using spinfits at the moment. Was a bit annoyed that they turned on ANC every time I took them out of the case. Turns out the current firmware fixes that. Still no one complaining about my audio on calls/meetings.

So far:
1. Turns out you cannot change the controls which is unfortunate.
2. Seeing the one unit draining more than the other issue. Going to run both down to 0 then see what happens.


----------



## darveniza

logiatype said:


> Second full day with Beoplay Ex. So far, been pretty solid all around. Really enjoying how they just disappear in my ears. Have to keep checking to makes sure they are secure.
> 
> Default tips are pretty awful; using spinfits at the moment. Was a bit annoyed that they turned on ANC every time I took them out of the case. Turns out the current firmware fixes that. Still no one complaining about my audio on calls/meetings.
> 
> ...


I tried spin fit. But could not get the TWS to make proper contact for charging when I stored them. I think it is the size which model are you using


----------



## logiatype

darveniza said:


> I tried spin fit. But could not get the TWS to make proper contact for charging when I stored them. I think it is the size which model are you using


The new CP360 mediums. I didn’t need to charge them so I might show up to the office to find them drained 😂


----------



## J_3000 (Nov 8, 2022)

logiatype said:


> Second full day with Beoplay Ex. So far, been pretty solid all around. Really enjoying how they just disappear in my ears. Have to keep checking to makes sure they are secure.
> 
> Default tips are pretty awful; using spinfits at the moment. Was a bit annoyed that they turned on ANC every time I took them out of the case. Turns out the current firmware fixes that. Still no one complaining about my audio on calls/meetings.
> 
> ...


Spinfits work great with EX. Been using the CP1025 and CP360.

What do you mean current fw fixes it? I didnt know this, what fw version do you have?

Edit: ah yes. There is new fw 5.5, but not available for my device yet. Thats great news!


----------



## jant71 (Nov 8, 2022)

A couple new ones...
https://www-phileweb-com.translate....html?_x_tr_sl=auto&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en-US




New driver, encasing the chamber in metal to improve the sound, 92 step volume, ANC and ambient, 6 on board sound modes(3 standard and 3 Pro modes tuned by Victor studio), low latency mode. Very much seems like an improved FX30T. The earlier FX100T did have aptX at the time but this sadly is only SBC and AAC. Due on 11/17

New Aviot... https://www-phileweb-com.translate....html?_x_tr_sl=auto&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en-US








Hybrid DD/BA with LDAC. Has ANC and multipoint Due 11/18


----------



## nekonhime (Nov 8, 2022)

jant71 said:


> A couple new ones...
> https://www-phileweb-com.translate....html?_x_tr_sl=auto&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en-US
> 
> New driver, encasing the chamber in metal to improve the sound, 92 step volume, ANC and ambient, 6 on board sound modes(3 standard and 3 Pro modes tuned by Victor studio), low latency mode. Very much seems like an improved FX30T. The earlier FX100T did have aptX at the time but his sadly is only SBC and AAC. Due on 11/17
> ...


I have high hope for the victor since I love the ha fw1000t so much. Btw, the new one have a support app when the 1000t didn't? Wt.f jvc
The aviot case look dope as hell


----------



## logiatype

J_3000 said:


> Spinfits work great with EX. Been using the CP1025 and CP360.
> 
> What do you mean current fw fixes it? I didnt know this, what fw version do you have?
> 
> Edit: ah yes. There is new fw 5.5, but not available for my device yet. Thats great news!


Yep 5.5. I didn't realize the fw was region locked.


----------



## J_3000

logiatype said:


> Yep 5.5. I didn't realize the fw was region locked


I guess these distributed in batches, maybe based on serial number?


----------



## jant71

nekonhime said:


> I have high hope for the victor since I love the ha fw1000t so much. Btw, the new one have a support app when the 1000t didn't? Wt.f jvc
> The aviot case look dope as hell


I had and liked the first one. It was on par with the Senn back then from the few who had both(not me though). For about the same $150 I would think it would be a step better. Perhaps a step below the current top crop and maybe second best as far as JVC goes. Very interesting if it could beat the Kenwood. Having both the first Victor TWS and the Kenwood the Kenwood was the winner no doubt. If it still trails the Kenwood then it would place third best for SQ. I am tempted to try it against the Kenwood. Those SQ settings may just be something that synergizes well and I'm sure the ANC has to be better than the older Kenwood ANC which is early JVC ANC which makes only a slight difference and has trouble when it is windy so it can make a squelchy noise when the wind hits them a certain way.


----------



## nekonhime

jant71 said:


> I had and liked the first one. It was on par with the Senn back then from the few who had both(not me though). For about the same $150 I would think it would be a step better. Perhaps a step below the current top crop and maybe second best as far as JVC goes. Very interesting if it could beat the Kenwood. Having both the first Victor TWS and the Kenwood the Kenwood was the winner no doubt. If it still trails the Kenwood then it would place third best for SQ. I am tempted to try it against the Kenwood. Those SQ settings may just be something that synergizes well and I'm sure the ANC has to be better than the older Kenwood ANC which is early JVC ANC which makes only a slight difference and has trouble when it is windy so it can make a squelchy noise when the wind hits them a certain way.


Wait, I thought the Kenwood and jvc are the same?
So we have the Jvc and Kenwood variants with different specs and app? I feel like I am being scam now....


----------



## jant71 (Nov 8, 2022)

nekonhime said:


> Wait, I thought the Kenwood and jvc are the same?
> So we have the Jvc and Kenwood variants with different specs and app? I feel like I am being scam now....



There have been two $300+ models from JVC so far....
The FW1000T





and Kenwood WS-1ag




The Kenwood has a 10mm beryllium dynamic and an app and is very voice assistant based and has Google and Alexa variants. The Kenwood came first and only has aptX cause Adaptive wasn't out then(think it was during aptX HD and right before adaptive) but it does have wireless charging. The Kenwood, even being a bit clunky due to it's size, is my favorite TWS and I haven't bought any TWS since. The size does allow for swipes which makes volume control much better.


----------



## nekonhime

jant71 said:


> There have been two $300+ models from JVC so far....
> The FW1000T
> 
> 
> ...


I saw the kenwood one for 74$ so I will give it a try. Coming in this weekend.


----------



## jant71

nekonhime said:


> I saw the kenwood one for 74$ so I will give it a try. Coming in this weekend.


You really can't complain at the price. Mine were $99 a ways back.


----------



## nekonhime

jant71 said:


> You really can't complain at the price. Mine were $99 a ways back.


Btw, is the a1 work on android or only the a1g work on it?


----------



## jant71 (Nov 8, 2022)

nekonhime said:


> Btw, is the a1 work on android or only the a1g work on it?


It is Alexa or Google assistant so either should work the same as a basic TWS and app. You can use either assistant on android but I'm thinking Google assistant is native to android and the better one for android. The "a1g" is probably the best choice for android.


----------



## nekonhime

jant71 said:


> It is Alexa or Google assistant so either should work the same as a basic TWS and app. You can use either assistant on android but I'm thinking Google assistant is native to android and the better one for android. The "a1g" is probably the best choice for android.


I saw the g one for 74 and the a1 for 50, so I just want to be sure if this can use some voice assistant on my android phone


----------



## jant71 (Nov 8, 2022)

nekonhime said:


> I saw the g one for 74 and the a1 for 50, so I just want to be sure if this can use some voice assistant on my android phone


This may help. Specifically the "on a phone" section  https://www.androidauthority.com/alexa-vs-google-assistant-3099501/


----------



## nekonhime

jant71 said:


> This may help. Specifically the "on a phone" section  https://www.androidauthority.com/alexa-vs-google-assistant-3099501/


Oh well, for 50$, I can live with the alexa. Thank you so much


----------



## gandalftomte

WeirdG said:


> That's so strange. I left the AZ60 EQ flat and the bass was just so overpowering. Like I said, I even tried with two different sets of AZ60s. The exact same results. I got some MTW3's today, and they sound more like the XM4 after I EQ'd them using Crin's MTW3 EQ profile. The bass is definitely tighter than the XM4's, but I still prefer the XM4's sound.
> 
> I wonder if the device is the reason for the difference in audio? I'm using a OnePlus 8T with LDAC for the XM4 and the aptX Adaptive for the MTW3. I'm also using the same silicone tips with both earbuds, just so I get a proper fit. I'm not a fan of the foam tips that come with the XM4's.



I also find the AZ60 bass overpowering, there's just soo much of it.

My current AZ60 EQ is:
100: -5dB
315: -1dB
1k: +1dB
3.15k: +2dB
10k: +3dB

With this I find music very enjoyable, the default flat EQ is meh, soo much bass, not enough of everything else.


----------



## clerkpalmer

Apologies if this has been asked and answered before, best APP2 non-foam replacement tips for better stability?  TIA.  Is there a hybrid foam option perhaps?


----------



## J_3000 (Nov 9, 2022)

So I got my EX replaced because of channel imbalance. Hard to say how much the difference was, but it was noticable. First time experiencing this in my headphones. Im not sure when the problem started, but it wasn't there in the beginning.

I was listening to my new pair yesterday, when suddenly all volume dropped something like 30%. Putting volume to max (OnePlus 10 Pro) was clearly lower than before. Today I deleted the bluetooth pairing from my phone and did a hard reset to the EX, which fixed the problem.

Weird.

I have also had some random connection problems with the new unit, but not sure is it more than with my original unit.


----------



## logiatype

J_3000 said:


> So I got my EX replaced because of channel imbalance. Hard to say how much the difference was, but it was noticable. First time experiencing this in my headphones. Im not sure when the problem started, but it wasn't there in the beginning.
> 
> I was listening to my new pair yesterday, when suddenly all volume dropped something like 30%. Putting volume to max (OnePlus 10 Pro) was clearly lower than before. Today I deleted the bluetooth pairing from my phone and did a hard reset to the EX, which fixed the problem.
> 
> ...


With bluetooth, it's always finicky especially when multipoint is in the mix. You have to try to set it up to succeed.

Delete connections and repair is always helpful.

For multipoint, if I know I don't need PC audio, I mute (or better yet set the default output to a non-BT output).

Today I had an issue where the music wasn't playing from my phone. Realized that MS Teams call I was just on may not have released the handsfree connection. Quitting Teams and instantly fixed the issue.

It's a shame that BT is still so unpolished in 2022. A decade+ later and the protocol is still the weakest link.


----------



## erockg

Welp, because I had a $25 gift card burning a hole in my pocket... repurchased the Devialet Gemini for $155 ($180 minus the $25) then oddly enough, Bloomingdales gave me a $50 gift card for purchasing.  Woo hoo!  For $180 they are a steal imo.  The Gemini have always held a soft spot in my heart.  The soundstage and sub bass is great.  ANC is decent as well.  Better than most.  We'll see if any bugs rear their heads this time around.


----------



## cresny

erockg said:


> Welp, because I had a $25 gift card burning a hole in my pocket... repurchased the Devialet Gemini for $155 ($180 minus the $25) then oddly enough, Bloomingdales gave me a $50 gift card for purchasing.  Woo hoo!  For $180 they are a steal imo.  The Gemini have always held a soft spot in my heart.  The soundstage and sub bass is great.  ANC is decent as well.  Better than most.  We'll see if any bugs rear their heads this time around.


Funny, I had an unopened Gemini on my desk for over a month now. I was going to sell it after I got and really liked the ATH-TWX9, but last night I was listening to something that just didn't work -- too thin somehow. Then I spied the the Gemini, ripped it open and it was perfect, like settling into a favorite old armchair. The AT's have that amazing soundstage, but the Geminis have the mix of big open bass + detail that is just so pleasant. Add in good noise cancelling and wind handling and they are keepers, albeit with crap battery life. But if they ever do come out with something new I'm right on it.


----------



## erockg

cresny said:


> Funny, I had an unopened Gemini on my desk for over a month now. I was going to sell it after I got and really liked the ATH-TWX9, but last night I was listening to something that just didn't work -- too thin somehow. Then I spied the the Gemini, ripped it open and it was perfect, like settling into a favorite old armchair. The AT's have that amazing soundstage, but the Geminis have the mix of big open bass + detail that is just so pleasant. Add in good noise cancelling and wind handling and they are keepers, albeit with crap battery life. But if they ever do come out with something new I'm right on it.


I'm guessing since they lowered the price, they've got something brewing.  Same here.  They really are great.  Ahead of their time for sure.


----------



## Juturna

cresny said:


> Funny, I had an unopened Gemini on my desk for over a month now. I was going to sell it after I got and really liked the ATH-TWX9, but last night I was listening to something that just didn't work -- too thin somehow. Then I spied the the Gemini, ripped it open and it was perfect, like settling into a favorite old armchair. The AT's have that amazing soundstage, but the Geminis have the mix of big open bass + detail that is just so pleasant. Add in good noise cancelling and wind handling and they are keepers, albeit with crap battery life. But if they ever do come out with something new I'm right on it.


I wish I heard what you hear in the Gemini, because... to me they just don't sound good unless it's with like... instrumental electronic music, and I also get like friction wounds or whatever you want to call them, if I wear them for more than 1-2 days in a row.  
Like with an EQ they sound passable but it's still probably the worst TWS purchase I've made. Not the worst TWS's i've heard, but still the worst value for money purchase I've made. If they were $150 I'd be fine with it though


----------



## Caipirina

logiatype said:


> It's a shame that BT is still so unpolished in 2022. A decade+ later and the protocol is still the weakest link.



On the one hand it is amazing that we can have tiny wireless noisemakers in our ears and when they work, it is amazing! 

But I agree that it is puzzling how it is still 'finicky' (my wife is still somewhat 'scared' of everything BT because of that) ... and even the latest greatest new Bose buds, I can't believe how often I have to put them back in the case / take out to get a proper connection ... might be multipoint related ...


----------



## pokenguyen (Nov 10, 2022)

Pull the trigger and got it, very good first impression, it makes my Beoplay E8 3.0 sound like low quality crap. Very smoooooooth sound and good soundstage. However the touch control on left one doesn't work (or maybe the sensor doesn't work), I can't change the volume and it sounds tiny although I max volume on my phone. Will try to charge to 100% and do it again.

EDIT: It works now, the sensor on the left is hit and miss. I will disable the sensor instead. 
This is the best TWS I ever tried (SMTW2, MW07, Beoplay E8, PI7)...


----------



## Devodonaldson

harpdoc said:


> I've tried my _Creative_ BT-W4 adapter with the TWX9's a few times now. I had not really expected to notice much difference between the regular apt-x of my Samsung phone and apt-x adaptive from the Creative, but there is a noticeable improvement. Sounds more polished, a bit more lush. The bt-w4 is a great solution for phones that don't do apt-x adaptive or computers that don't do bluetooth well.


Dame here. I use my Noble Fokus for music wirh my iPhone. I use the bt-w4 when listening to music, and AAC for podcasts,  etc. The bt-w4 eats a lot of battery in comparison, but certainly worth it


----------



## Devodonaldson

howdy said:


> For those of you who have the G-Buds Pro and the G-Buds2 Pro is there a "justifiable" reason to upgrade? I have the Buds Pro and like them, my only issue with them is they have got to be the most finicky pair to get a great seal and sound and if the Buds2 pro fit better that would be awesome. I think the stem is to small for my gigantic ear hole to get a proper fit.
> 
> On another note, still loving the Bose QCII. I will be listing a few buds that are collecting dust for sometime if anyone is interested.


Ordered galaxy buds pro dual flange tips from Amazon. Came in 3 sizes. I get a great seal bow and can workout with buds pro. Comfortable and better sound quality than before


----------



## logiatype

Caipirina said:


> On the one hand it is amazing that we can have tiny wireless noisemakers in our ears and when they work, it is amazing!
> 
> But I agree that it is puzzling how it is still 'finicky' (my wife is still somewhat 'scared' of everything BT because of that) ... and even the latest greatest new Bose buds, I can't believe how often I have to put them back in the case / take out to get a proper connection ... might be multipoint related ...


Definitely agree. Knowing what to mute and what to not mute has made my multipoint usage infinitely better. Handsfree always takes precedence, and sound from a secondary source will cut in and cause disruption.

@J_3000 seems like 5.5.8 is live for the EX. It keeps the ANC setting set.


----------



## Hozay

Hi yall,

I am looking for advices on which TWS should I choose.

I have been browsing different websites and threads in head-fi, now I have 3 top picks but they do not have demo units to try at where I live so I hope people who know more about headphones(all of you) or have tried/bought them to share some opinions/advices to help me make my decision. And I checked I did not find any threads to compare these 3 (if there is please tell me I can delete this thread).

1.Beyerdynamic free byrd
2.Ath-twx9
3.JVC fw1000t

I will need to use the TWS on my iphone and PC, so I checked all 3 of them support AAC/aptx. Sadly windows 10 doesnt support aptx-adaptive if I am correct. Or can I buy an usb Bluetooth adapter to make that happen?

I am open to recommendations on other TWS but my budget is around 300 usd.

My reasons of choosing these 3 are:

They all are released in 2021/2022, so kind of new. They all support Bluetooth 5.2
And I do hope I get the best sound quality out of my TWS in this price range. These 3 are I find most recommended when talking about sound quality of TWS. And on other factors such as battery life/lvl of comfort/connection they seems all are fine (from what I read).

So If I rank my priorities they are:

1.sound quality
2.Codec (support windows 10/iphone)
3.comfortable to wear and not bad battery life (having to charge very often is a bit annoying to me)

PS: I know level of comfort can be subjective so if it provides many sizes of ear foam/tips, or is not designed with weird angles/shapes would be great.

Oh and I do not need to use the TWS while doing exercises, so waterproofness is not important. I might use it when commuting but noise cancelling is not very important either. And I know a wired IEM can provide much better sound quality but I need a TWS now for my reasons and I may get a better wired one in the future. I will pass on any Bose tws (coz noise cancelling dont matter to me) and Air pods (they are convenience to use but I already had many generations of them).

Thank you for reading such a long intro, I tried my best to state my needs and backgrounds, please feel free to share your thoughts!


----------



## cresny

Juturna said:


> I wish I heard what you hear in the Gemini, because... to me they just don't sound good unless it's with like... instrumental electronic music, and I also get like friction wounds or whatever you want to call them, if I wear them for more than 1-2 days in a row.
> Like with an EQ they sound passable but it's still probably the worst TWS purchase I've made. Not the worst TWS's i've heard, but still the worst value for money purchase I've made. If they were $150 I'd be fine with it though


Yeah, different ears, different tastes. But nevertheless I am foolishly going to attempt to put forth an evidence-backed argument for the Gemini. This song is has a "soft rock" feel, like The Carpenters or Joni Mitchell, but it's underlaid by a constant base of strings/synth that swells and builds to multiple flourishes, Harp, etc. On the TWX9, it's like there is too much emphasis in dynamics which results in some harsh shifts, but the Gemini tames the mood while delivering it full and lush, and delivers detail on the flourishes. These is clearly differently tuned DSPs. 

Now, you may just hate the song, and I guess that could indirectly explain your dislike for the Gemini .


----------



## erockg

Juturna said:


> I wish I heard what you hear in the Gemini, because... to me they just don't sound good unless it's with like... instrumental electronic music, and I also get like friction wounds or whatever you want to call them, if I wear them for more than 1-2 days in a row.
> Like with an EQ they sound passable but it's still probably the worst TWS purchase I've made. Not the worst TWS's i've heard, but still the worst value for money purchase I've made. If they were $150 I'd be fine with it though





cresny said:


> Yeah, different ears, different tastes. But nevertheless I am foolishly going to attempt to put forth an evidence-backed argument for the Gemini. This song is has a "soft rock" feel, like The Carpenters or Joni Mitchell, but it's underlaid by a constant base of strings/synth that swells and builds to multiple flourishes, Harp, etc. On the TWX9, it's like there is too much emphasis in dynamics which results in some harsh shifts, but the Gemini tames the mood while delivering it full and lush, and delivers detail on the flourishes. These is clearly differently tuned DSPs.
> 
> Now, you may just hate the song, and I guess that could indirectly explain your dislike for the Gemini .



See, I'm on the opposite side of the music spectrum.  Listening to hard rock and metal mostly.  I've got the Gemini EQ on Dynamic with a little tweaking.  Perfect balance for my ears.  No fit issues using the large Devialet tips.  No rubbing.  No pain all gain.  In fact, they're so light, some days I can't feel them in my ears.   

I'm loving the below new album.  I won't call out a particular song, but whew.  Chills using the Gemini.  Crank it up!!!


----------



## cresny

erockg said:


> See, I'm on the opposite side of the music spectrum.  Listening to hard rock and metal mostly.  I've got the Gemini EQ on Dynamic with a little tweaking.  Perfect balance for my ears.  No fit issues using the large Devialet tips.  No rubbing.  No pain all gain.  In fact, they're so light, some days I can't feel them in my ears.
> 
> I'm loving the below new album.  I won't call out a particular song, but whew.  Chills using the Gemini.  Crank it up!!!


Yup, just A/B'd. That's another win for the Gemini. Needs to go big!


----------



## Bhelpoori

Caipirina said:


> On the one hand it is amazing that we can have tiny wireless noisemakers in our ears and when they work, it is amazing!
> 
> But I agree that it is puzzling how it is still 'finicky' (my wife is still somewhat 'scared' of everything BT because of that) ... and even the latest greatest new Bose buds, I can't believe how often I have to put them back in the case / take out to get a proper connection ... might be multipoint related ...


Actually, it isn’t Bluetooth as a whole, but two protocols within Bluetooth that were done 20 years ago and have now been replaced by the LE-Audio architecture which is much cleaner, more power efficient and was designed with TWS use cases from the beginning.

It remains amazing to me that multipoint, which is actually dual-point, ever works on a TWS at all given the “stuff” it needs to do…


----------



## logiatype

Bhelpoori said:


> Actually, it isn’t Bluetooth as a whole, but two protocols within Bluetooth that were done 20 years ago and have now been replaced by the LE-Audio architecture which is much cleaner, more power efficient and was designed with TWS use cases from the beginning.
> 
> It remains amazing to me that multipoint, which is actually dual-point, ever works on a TWS at all given the “stuff” it needs to do…


Unfortunately, no one knows when LE-Audio products are scheduled for release


----------



## J_3000

logiatype said:


> Definitely agree. Knowing what to mute and what to not mute has made my multipoint usage infinitely better. Handsfree always takes precedence, and sound from a secondary source will cut in and cause disruption.
> 
> @J_3000 seems like 5.5.8 is live for the EX. It keeps the ANC setting set.


I dont see it 🥺 5.49 is the latest for me


----------



## logiatype

J_3000 said:


> I dont see it 🥺 5.49 is the latest for me


Are you outside of the US?


----------



## nekonhime

J_3000 said:


> So I got my EX replaced because of channel imbalance. Hard to day hoe much it was, but it was noticable. First time experiencing this, but it was like all the music is little to the left. Im not sure when the problem started, but it wasn't there in the beginning.
> 
> I was listening to my new pair yesterday, when suddenly all volume dropped something like 30%. Putting volume to max (OnePlus 10 Pro) was clearly lower than before. Today I deleted the bt paring from my phone and did a hard reset to the EX, which fixed the problem.
> 
> ...


It might be due to your device rather than the earbuds itself. Sometimes our phone just suck


----------



## J_3000

logiatype said:


> Are you outside of the US?


Yes, in Europe (Finland)


----------



## J_3000

nekonhime said:


> It might be due to your device rather than the earbuds itself. Sometimes our phone just suck


Yes might be. They sometimes dont connect after taking them from the case. Its just sometimes, something like 1/10 or less. When the connection is made, no problems at all. Might be something that future fw update might fix.


----------



## Hozay

erockg said:


> The TWX9 can stay connected to two devices at once.  Not as flawless as say, my AirPods Pro 2, but it does work well for me.  No tricks on Amazon Japan.  When I did it, I made an account, even signed up for the free 30 days, then made the purchase.  Easy with no issues.  I'm sure you have, but maybe try a different browser?


Do you need to pay a shipping fee if you wanna return anything back to amazon jp? Never bought anything from amazon jp but I am curious if they could do the free return like local Amazon.


----------



## erockg

Hozay said:


> Do you need to pay a shipping fee if you wanna return anything back to amazon jp? Never bought anything from amazon jp but I am curious if they could do the free return like local Amazon.


Sadly, I've never done it.  Once I tried, but got annoyed with all the DHL paperwork from here in the US.


----------



## Hozay

erockg said:


> Sadly, I've never done it.  Once I tried, but got annoyed with all the DHL paperwork from here in the US.


Yea I read the terms on Amazon jp it says you must use DHL to return. So I was wondering if there is gonna be a huge shipping fee. Thats one reason I haven't ordered TWX9 from Amazon JP. And I live in UK so I need to pay an import fee when buying TWX9 from Amazon jp. Normally the import fee will not be returned in my exp. So it is very close to be a "non-returnable" product to me.


----------



## Bhelpoori

logiatype said:


> Unfortunately, no one knows when LE-Audio products are scheduled for release


Surely someone in the 7+ billion on this planet knows? 

Seriously, LE-Audio has had a really long gestation period, not helped at all by Covid limiting interoperability testing. I continue to hope that we’ll see it appear soon, hopefully in 2023.


----------



## erockg

Hozay said:


> Yea I read the terms on Amazon jp it says you must use DHL to return. So I was wondering if there is gonna be a huge shipping fee. Thats one reason I haven't ordered TWX9 from Amazon JP. And I live in UK so I need to pay an import fee when buying TWX9 from Amazon jp. Normally the import fee will not be returned in my exp. So it is very close to be a "non-returnable" product to me.


Honestly, I haven't even been using my TWX9 lately.  They're great, but the honeymoon is over.  Been using my AirPods Pro 2, Bose QCII and B&O EX more.  This week, the Devialet Gemini again.  Been going back and forth and the Gemini soundstage is a bit wider and more full.  That's just my ears.

Up to you.  They're nice.  Definitely the best Audio Technica has done in the TWS market to date imo.  Sorry if I've made things worse


----------



## Hozay

erockg said:


> Honestly, I haven't even been using my TWX9 lately.  They're great, but the honeymoon is over.  Been using my AirPods Pro 2, Bose QCII and B&O EX more.  This week, the Devialet Gemini again.  Been going back and forth and the Gemini soundstage is a bit wider and more full.  That's just my ears.
> 
> Up to you.  They're nice.  Definitely the best Audio Technica has done in the TWS market to date imo.  Sorry if I've made things worse


Thank you for sharing! I wouldnt have similar situation coz I am looking for my first TWS


----------



## erockg

Hozay said:


> Thank you for sharing! I wouldnt have similar situation coz I am looking for my first TWS


You're in for a wild ride then.  Once you buy one, you just keep chasing perfection.  It's fun.


----------



## Hozay

erockg said:


> You're in for a wild ride then.  Once you buy one, you just keep chasing perfection.  It's fun.


I wouldnt have that much budget XD. Hope I got the jackpot on my first pick.


----------



## ElKabong

erockg said:


> See, I'm on the opposite side of the music spectrum.  Listening to hard rock and metal mostly.  I've got the Gemini EQ on Dynamic with a little tweaking.  Perfect balance for my ears.  No fit issues using the large Devialet tips.  No rubbing.  No pain all gain.  In fact, they're so light, some days I can't feel them in my ears.
> 
> I'm loving the below new album.  I won't call out a particular song, but whew.  Chills using the Gemini.  Crank it up!!!


Nice album, kind of a Black Sabbath vibe in the guitar work. Sky Burial, great groove.


----------



## nekonhime

https://www.digitaltrends.com/home-theater/mqair-scl6-hi-res-audio-bluetooth-codec-mqa/
New codec comings to the town


----------



## pigeontree

Hozay said:


> Yea I read the terms on Amazon jp it says you must use DHL to return. So I was wondering if there is gonna be a huge shipping fee. Thats one reason I haven't ordered TWX9 from Amazon JP. And I live in UK so I need to pay an import fee when buying TWX9 from Amazon jp. Normally the import fee will not be returned in my exp. So it is very close to be a "non-returnable" product to me.


You are not going to be able to return them.

My first pair was faulty and Amazon JP sent me a new pair and instructed me to send the faulty pair back via DHL at my expense, which they said they would reimburse. The cost was $130 and they were promptly returned to me by DHL because of the lithium batteries. There was no way around it, so ultimately Amazon let me keep the faulty pair. I wasn’t charged anything by DHL.

On another note, I recommended the TWX9 to my buddy and he loves them, but he says even the small tips are too large for his ear canals. Does anyone have any advice on smaller aftermarket tips?

I love my TWX9! They sound absolutely perfect to my novice ears. I also switched from Spotify to Deezer which has made an unbelievable difference in quality to my ears.


----------



## Hozay

pigeontree said:


> You are not going to be able to return them.
> 
> My first pair was faulty and Amazon JP sent me a new pair and instructed me to send the faulty pair back via DHL at my expense, which they said they would reimburse. The cost was $130 and they were promptly returned to me by DHL because of the lithium batteries. There was no way around it, so ultimately Amazon let me keep the faulty pair. I wasn’t charged anything by DHL.
> 
> ...


Thx a lot! That really helps. Actually my local Amazon has TWX9 but its 90 GBP more than Amazon JP. Which is 50% more. I guess I need to think about this.


----------



## dweaver (Nov 10, 2022)

I don't know about anyone else but I am a bit intrigued by the Fiio FW5 announcement... Still love my Fiio UTWS5 FH5 combo...

I think they look damn nice too, in a big metallic fashion...

https://fiio.com/fw5


----------



## helmutcheese (Nov 12, 2022)

I will not be buying at launch as the make good earbuds but anything with Chipsets they seem to quickly forget to support it.

Look at last updates for the LC-BT2 and newer devices like the BTA30 PRO and UTWS5 (the thread here put me of them).


----------



## erockg (Nov 10, 2022)

dweaver said:


> I don't know about anyone else but I am a bit intrigued by the Fiio FW5 announcement... Still love my Fiio UTWS5 FH5 combo...
> 
> I think they look damn nice too, in a big metallic fashion...
> 
> https://fiio.com/fw5


Oh no, it's another Beyerdynamic, Yamaha and many others type of shell.  I can't ever get those to fit.  Frankenstein pegs.  Knowing me, I'll try them.

https://hifigo.com/collections/new-arrival/products/fiio-fw5


----------



## erockg

The hits keep comin'.  As in, beating my head with the box of another pair of TWS I didn't need to repurchase, but the price drop was so good. 

KEF Mu3 in Charcoal.  No frills, but tuned great  No app.  No wireless charging.  Perfect fit.  ANC & Transparency is there, but you're paying for the fit and sound imo.


----------



## dweaver

How are you liking the Kef? I might try them if I can get them for $98 at Visions Electronics here in Canada.


----------



## tiagopinto

erockg said:


> The hits keep comin'.  As in, beating my head with the box of another pair of TWS I didn't need to repurchase, but the price drop was so good.
> 
> KEF Mu3 in Charcoal.  No frills, but tuned great  No app.  No wireless charging.  Perfect fit.  ANC & Transparency is there, but you're paying for the fit and sound imo.



You, Sir, are insane. And I like that.


----------



## Onurb8690

Hi Guys,
 in the "world" of wireless iem, at the moment what do you consider a Top 5...Give priority to sound quality....


----------



## FlyingFungus

I've only heard one, but I'll recommend it either way....Cambridge Melomania 1+... Under $100 USD. No anc but great fit and excellent sound quality. Very surprised by how good it actually sounds. Great build quality too


----------



## dweaver (Nov 11, 2022)

Onurb8690 said:


> Hi Guys,
> in the "world" of wireless iem, at the moment what do you consider a Top 5...Give priority to sound quality....



I can only go with what I own.

1. Samsung Galaxy Buds 2 Pro - these have the best over all sound signature of any TWS I have owned. The bass goes deep and yet is controlled, the mids are neutral and detailed, the treble has sparkle without crossing the line into sibilance. Sound stage is decently open and has as good a 3D presentation as my TWS I have owned. The only thing missing is a bit less detail in the treble as the Soundcore Liberty 3 Pro. Weaknesses are no ability to set your own EQ relying on a small set of preset EQ's . I personally love the default sound and find the dynamic preset to be a nice alternative but not everyone will be so happy. I also have a newer Samsung device so get to take advantage of the 24 bit codec.

2. Soundcore Liberty 3 Pro - this TWS has very good sound once you apply the Hear ID function and can be tweaked like crazy due to the amount of presets available and the ability to just tweak the EQ to what ever you want. It supports LDAC, AAC, SBC so will work with just about any phone or computer. This TWS is an amazing bang for buck being half the price or less of most of the flagships out there from Sony, Bose, Samsung while offering arguably similar or more features, as good as or potentially better sound, and more. (If you like a stem style Soundcore has also just released the Liberty 4 which may be a contender but I can not speak from experience as it is not available in Canada yet). Signature is a bit heaver in the bass compared to the GB2P and has slightly less prominent mids, treble is articulate and detailed crossing over into being sharp and potentially sibilant unless you dial it back.

3. Technics AZ60 - this IEM offers a decent bag of tricks for features only missing auto detect in ear. It also looks really nice but lacks in comfort compared to the GB2P and Linkbuds S,  and even slightly behind the Soundcore Liberty 3 Pro. Setting that aside it signature is a bit mid-bass heavy that can mask the sub-bass a bit, nice warm mids, and decent treble detail. When on sale this is a decent performer that even offers multi-point while using LDAC, something no else has been able to accomplish.

4. Sony Linkbuds S - I have owned the WF-1000XM3 as well as the Linkbuds S and prefer the S over the XM3. In reading I am comfortable the XM4 would be less to my liking as I found the XM3 to dark sounding and the XM4 are apparently even darker sounding. So I was very happy with the Linkbuds S until I bought the SB2P and realized what I was missing sonically speaking. The S has a warm signature with a nice lush midrange but lack sub-bass depth and like all Sony BT headphones of the past few years is missing treble sparkle and detail. This is a great TWS for anyone who struggle with to much treble but for a 58 year old with hearing loss in that range these are just to polite. But they do have a great app and if you can train the AI to control ANC, no ANC, and ambient modes for you thse offer relatively OK battery life. But if you insist on LDAC, ANC, and DSEE to be enabled exported extremely short battery life of potentially only a couple of hours of use.

5. Soundcore Space A40 - this is smaller yet great battery performer than the L3P with only a single dynamic driver. It fits better and is arguably more a more balance sound. The signature is great if you don't want a lot of bass. I liked the bass mostly but do miss more sub-bass. The midrange is a bit dry and airy and treble is not as detailed as the L3P but also less harsh. This TWS has significant battery life as compared to the rest of the TWS on this list.

Battery life is pretty similar for most of these TWS except the Linkbuds S and Space A40. The S just is hampered unless you turn of LDAC and more importantly DSEE and then use the app to auto adjust settings in the fly. I find I can only get semi decent battery life if I use ANC only when really needed. If I turn on ANC when wearing these to bed for example the battery warning will wake me up way before I have slept for the night. The A40 on the other hand just clobbers everything on the list for battery life. If you really want a long battery life it's hard to beat and it's also almost as comfortable as the Sony and Samsung which are the best TWS for comfort with Samsung getting the nod for most comfortable.


----------



## Not so fat head

logiatype said:


> With bluetooth, it's always finicky especially when multipoint is in the mix. You have to try to set it up to succeed.
> 
> Delete connections and repair is always helpful.
> 
> ...


I don't know...  With chip design to silicon production time, antenna design, battery advancement and especially trying to shrink it to fit INSIDE the ear????
We're where I expected, if not a little further in development..


----------



## SynaestheticA

Anyone here able to find the specs for Victor TWS. 

The website might be translating poorly but only mentions descriptive stuff like "tuned by a technician in the studio"

I'm gonna pre order the HA-FX150T but want to know if it's just a smaller version of the HA-FX100T or hopefully closer to the HA-FW1000T.


----------



## SynaestheticA (Nov 11, 2022)

Onurb8690 said:


> Hi Guys,
> in the "world" of wireless iem, at the moment what do you consider a Top 5...Give priority to sound quality....


Based off months of watching this thread. And no personal experience
1. Victor HA-FW1000T
2. Beoplay EX
3. Galaxy Buds Pro 2
4. ATH-TWX9
5. Soundcore Liberty Pro 3

I'll also put a special mention into ones I do have which are criminally underated, the ...
6. Nuarl N6 Mini2se


----------



## nekonhime

SynaestheticA said:


> Based off months of watching this thread. And no personal experience
> 1. Victor HA-FW1000T
> 2. Beoplay EX
> 3. Galaxy Buds Pro 2
> ...


You forgot the fokus pro. Btw, it should be 3 not 2 for the soundcore


----------



## clerkpalmer

SynaestheticA said:


> Based off months of watching this thread. And no personal experience
> 1. Victor HA-FW1000T
> 2. Beoplay EX
> 3. Galaxy Buds Pro 2
> ...


GBPro2 ahead of TWX9 ….? Fighting words. 

The TWX9 has to be the surprise hit of the year.


----------



## SynaestheticA

clerkpalmer said:


> GBPro2 ahead of TWX9 ….? Fighting words.
> 
> The TWX9 has to be the surprise hit of the year.


Just based off the vibrancy of other people's comments. The features of the TWX9 seem to get it to the top of the lists, with other buds offering better/different SQ. But I ain't dying on this hil don't worry


----------



## Not so fat head

Onurb8690 said:


> Hi Guys,
> in the "world" of wireless iem, at the moment what do you consider a Top 5...Give priority to sound quality....


Get ready for 30 different top 5's.  😃


----------



## erockg

clerkpalmer said:


> GBPro2 ahead of TWX9 ….? Fighting words.
> 
> The TWX9 has to be the surprise hit of the year.


Agreed.

Right now for me, hard to pick an order, but currently in house:
B&O EX
Devialet Gemini
Bose QCII
AT TWX9
KEF Mu3
AirPods Pro 2

Nuratrue Pro coming soon.

NFP are still one of the best sounding I've owned.

Can't bring myself to try the Victor buds unless someone can convince me they'll fit comfortably.


----------



## clerkpalmer

SynaestheticA said:


> Just based off the vibrancy of other people's comments. The features of the TWX9 seem to get it to the top of the lists, with other buds offering better/different SQ. But I ain't dying on this hil don't worry





erockg said:


> Agreed.
> 
> Right now for me, hard to pick an order, but currently in house:
> B&O EX
> ...


It is interesting that I prefer the sound of the AT to the Bose but I absolutely love the Bose ANC. I couldn’t live without the Bose. 

But I can’t disagree with your list. I haven’t dusted off my Gemini in a while but maybe I’ll charge them up and give them a whirl. I have an APP2 coming tomorrow for a second run. 

Looking forward to your impressions on the Nuras. 

When will Apple give us hi res? Will we even notice the difference?


----------



## erockg

clerkpalmer said:


> It is interesting that I prefer the sound of the AT to the Bose but I absolutely love the Bose ANC. I couldn’t live without the Bose.
> 
> But I can’t disagree with your list. I haven’t dusted off my Gemini in a while but maybe I’ll charge them up and give them a whirl. I have an APP2 coming tomorrow for a second run.
> 
> ...


Bose just have stellar ANC.  Those APP2 are my go to when I need something easy to pocket, something that switches flawlessly for work zooms et al, or if my wife and I need to share audio watching a movie on the Apple TV.  The others are just gravy!  I've had the EX since day one and the latest update added auto-pause.  Finally.


----------



## Not so fat head

My 2 cents

Probably a little behind the times..  old school..  😃  I own all

Bose QC's .. best NC  

Jabra 85t..  really good, can find 50% off

B&W PI7, Sony XM3  tied for sound.  Can get Sony's cheap.

Sennheiser M2  I just like them, and the CX

Like lots of folks here, I own many pairs


----------



## erockg

dweaver said:


> How are you liking the Kef? I might try them if I can get them for $98 at Visions Electronics here in Canada.


For $98 bucks, that's a steal. Wow.  Really enjoying them and glad I revisited them.  Fell asleep last night wearing them


----------



## Not so fat head

Picked up Apple Powerbeats pro for $149 at Target..  I'll need to read some reviews before I open them..  Apparently they have H1 chips in each side, and are independent..


----------



## gabriely (Nov 11, 2022)

Onurb8690 said:


> Hi Guys,
> in the "world" of wireless iem, at the moment what do you consider a Top 5...Give priority to sound quality....



Amongst all the TWS buds I've personally tried, this would be my ranking list:

1. B&O Beoplay EX - Great sound (not the absolute best), comfy & secure fit, IP57. Only complaints I have are - price is seriously steep, controls aren't customisable (though they are fine), and ANC/transparency mode are weak by nature of them being very shallow in the ear canal (which is why they are so comfy in the first place). Bear in mind you don't have a conventional EQ, rather you have B&O's "circle" - don't know how to explain this succinctly so if you google this or look up some reviews you'll see what I mean.
2. Noble Fokus Pro - Absolute best sounding TWS buds I've tried by way of being the most technically capable. Fits much deeper than most other TWS, so even though no ANC, the passive noise isolation is seriously good (think on par with Sennheiser MTW2's ANC). However I can't put this on #1 on my list because I had too much connectivity issues with mine sadly, not sure if that was a reflection of my unit or the product itself.
3. Audio Technica ATH-TWX9 - Bit more fun than the EX, much more luxurious unboxing experience for a much more palatable pricetag, but IMO loses out to the EX slightly on the sound quality front. Customisable controls, can be EQ'd.
3. Samsung Galaxy Buds 2 Pro - Not much I need to say here, just super slippery to the touch so hard to pick up from the case. Also please switch out the tips, the stock tips that come with this absolutely suck. 
4. AirPods 2 Pro - Not much I need to say here either, just note that on certain genres of music (I Prevail - Body Bag) I noted the bass bleeding into the mids, locking into a power struggle before finally overwhelming the mids. ANC and transparency are great. More difficult to swap eartips here compared to other buds.
5. LG tone free FP9 - Pretty good deal for that pricetag (also perhaps owing to the fact it was heavily discounted in Singapore when I got to try it out, not sure what the usual retail price is).

Sennheiser's MTW3, B&W Pi7, Noble Fokus H-ANC I tried and do not recommend. The MTW3 were great to audition, but I have never seen the Sennheiser subreddit so incensed and furious with a product before - seems like they've had a bunch of issues with a botched firmware update amongst other issues. The Pi7 sounds good with things like classical music, but for me was not so great with modern genres like pop/trance/etc that needed more energy. H-ANC I did not enjoy at all.

Anything I did not mention, I either didn't try (Victor, Bose, Soundcore I will hopefully soon try) or didn't feel like it was worth mentioning.


----------



## Not so fat head

Oops, just found out on here there's a big sale at Audeze.  Picked up LCD 2 classics..  Apple power beats going back unopened tomorrow..

Yippee!!!  😃


----------



## clerkpalmer

Not so fat head said:


> Oops, just found out on here there's a big sale at Audeze.  Picked up LCD 2 classics..  Apple power beats going back unopened tomorrow..
> 
> Yippee!!!  😃


Amazing cans. Probably the best open backs I’ve ever heard for the money. Congrats.


----------



## gabriely

The Beoplay EX's new firmware update is now pushed!

B&O have implemented auto pause when one earbud is removed - media is very slow to react to me pulling a bud out on iOS. There's also a windnoise reduction mode but I am not convinced it is very effective...

Overall the real + factor here is we can now have transparency mode with just one bud, great feature to have but the transparency mode on these buds are not great to begin with so if you haven't bought the EXs yet this won't push you over the line.


----------



## Aurosonic

For those considering the ATH-TWX9's, I want to share with you my experience.

I purchased them from Amazon Japan on October 18. They arrived quickly, and worked right out of the box. I bought them to wear in the gym, and for the past three weeks they performed nearly flawlessly (the ANC touch button on the left earbud can be wonky). This past Thursday I removed them from the charging case and started to experience issues.

Normally, after removing the earbuds from the charging case, they would show as a single Bluetooth device. My phone would auto connect to them, and audio could then be played through both earbuds. However, the left and right earbuds are now showing as two separate devices, and connecting to one means audio only plays through one earbud. I tried restarting my phone thinking it was the problem. I then tried resetting the earbuds as outlined in the owners' manual. I also tried connecting the earbuds to another phone and my computer. I installed the AT Connect app and a firmware update is available, but both earbuds must be connected together to update. Tonight I completely drained the batteries and then recharged them, but the issue continues.

Some newer phones allow playing to multiple Bluetooth devices at once (sometimes called Multipoint or Dual Audio), but my phone does not allow for this. I am now stuck with audio playing from one side only. Additionally, since the earbuds need to communicate with each other for ANC to work, this feature is inoperable. Correspondence with Audio Technica support did not resolve the issue, and I now have to return them to Amazon Japan for a refund.

Needless to say I am pretty disappointed. These are my fourth pair of AT IEM's (first pair of TWS), and I have encountered issues with two of the pairs so my track record with AT is not great. I also regret buying from Amazon Japan, as the returns process is more difficult. At the time of purchase the TWX9's were not available in the US, so it was my only option. They are now available from multiple US vendors. It is cheaper to buy from Japan ($212 vs $299), but the returns process is not as consumer friendly.

I understand TWS is still an imperfect technology, and all brands have their issues. I just expected better quality for the price.


----------



## MaxwellDemon

Cyberblade arrived! Very very good packaging, now to see how these sound like..... so far, these have REALLY solid bass, but I feel the mid is thin and the treble seems lacking. Great for gaming, but not so much for music? I'll keep listening in on them. Fun design with the LEDs though


----------



## llmgtab

Now that you can order the ATH-TWX9 in the US I am close to making purchase. I have 2 questions if you don't mind that I cannot find our get different results in a search

Do they support regular Aptx? I have Samsung s22 phone so it does not support the higher versions

How customizable are the controls in the app? Any possibility of changing ANC/Ambient through to a single tap/click? I find the touch and hold on my GB2 hard to use. Or maybe change the quick hear through to less than three clicks would work as well


----------



## ddlo

llmgtab said:


> Do they support regular Aptx? I have Samsung s22 phone so it does not support the higher versions


Yes. samsung mobiles only have aptx, aac, sbc and ldac while twx9 only got sbc, aac and aptx (upto adaptive). i'm using zfold4 and the two automatically connects by aptx in my case.



llmgtab said:


> How customizable are the controls in the app? Any possibility of changing ANC/Ambient through to a single tap/click? I find the touch and hold on my GB2 hard to use. Or maybe change the quick hear through to less than three clicks would work as well


key assignments can be configured in the connect app.  but i think it's limited to several preset options.  i found the default hardware L button was assigned to cycle through anc-ambient sound-off for single click already (i cant change the function to assign to single, double and triple clicks in the app though).  hope this help.


----------



## MaxwellDemon

llmgtab said:


> Now that you can order the ATH-TWX9 in the US I am close to making purchase. I have 2 questions if you don't mind that I cannot find our get different results in a search
> 
> Do they support regular Aptx? I have Samsung s22 phone so it does not support the higher versions
> 
> How customizable are the controls in the app? Any possibility of changing ANC/Ambient through to a single tap/click? I find the touch and hold on my GB2 hard to use. Or maybe change the quick hear through to less than three clicks would work as well


Hey! They do support aptX, they don't support LDAC though. Not too bad in my opinion, but might be a deal breaker for some. The controls aren't very customizable. The level of customization is limited to only certain presets. The one you want on my device is set to double tap on the touch - not entirely sure if this can be changed, but it looks pretty locked to me. However, I haven't had any issues with the controls and I find the TWX9 to be the easiest earphones to tap away to my preference, especially when coupled with the side actual clickable button.


----------



## llmgtab

Thanks ddlo and MaxwellDemon - very helpful.


----------



## MaxwellDemon (Nov 12, 2022)

More thoughts on the Cyberblade now that I have some time to sit with them. First thing is the thinness is due to the "booster" system they are using when their "main hub" is connected via USB. Once I switch to Bluetooth, these sound _so much better_.

Now onto some proper thoughts, some mini review for it! Of course, it has been ages since I wrote any sort of audio review, so be gentle with me on it... 




​


Spoiler: Angry Miao Cyberblade Impression



They sound REALLY good. I think they are actually technically very solid with decent soundstage and instrument separations. Very W sound signature with the Cyberblade. Very strong punchy bass with sparkly trebles and relatively forward mids. The bass is seriously rumbly and got a big oomph but it doesn't bleed to the mids. Of course, knowing that these earphones are designed to be Gamer-First and Audiophile-Second, that's not surprising at all. Overall, it's a very energetic and bright earphone to meet the sort of sounds that gamers usually hear.

Unfortunately, these technical abilities are shot by the fact they don't support LDAC or AptX. So your hi-res music isn't going to get its fullest potential with these.

*Fit and design*
Very comfortable in my books. Of course, as inspired by Horizon Zero Dawn's focus, the embedded LED in them will turn heads. thankfully you can turn the LEDs off if you don't want to come off as pretentious 😂

I do love the design of it though, it just looks really special in comparison to your usual bud-and-stem approach nowadays.

The packaging is REALLY nice unsurprisingly if you know Angry Miao from the keyboard world, but the accessories are what you'd expect from any earphones. Comes with four silicon tips and three foam tips of different sizes.

*ANC performance and noise*
There's something interesting about Cyberblade's ANC. This is the first TWS that have listened to that doesn't sound like your ear canals get muffled with ANC. However, I can tell they are working when I am playing music because I can barely hear _anything_ while out on my walk. The wind noise was also very barely noticeable. Didn't even have any stomping sound when walking! I suspect these will do well with running. According to them, it is because it is mixed with environmental feedback and cancellation as well:



> Fully immerse yourself with Hybrid ANC (Active Noise Cancellation) and AI ENC (Environmental Noise Cancellation). Six microphones⑧ with a high signal-to-noise ratio ready to detect excess noise. Filters out over 35dB⑨.
> 
> Advanced algorithms for more applicable scenarios. Transparency mode for when you need to know what's happening around you.



One of the hiccups however is that the mic is quite big and nested on top of the earbuds. As a result, when you move the earpiece or if your ears itself brush against the mic, it can create a bit of a warble effect because of the ANC trying to remove that sound. Turning off fixes this, but a TWS earphone without ANC is just sad. Not entirely sure if this is something they can fix. Because otherwise, this ANC is REALLY solid.

*Usability:*
Some notes about misc. items relating to these earphones.
_Pros:_

Amazing battery life -- 6 hours of straight listening with the earbuds alone. Don't know about the case battery just yet, but considering the size of the case, it should be quite a bit. Their website says that it has 24 hours of listening time in total. Have yet to put that to test though!
_Cons:_

Cyberblade's touch buttons are limited to only ANC, pause/play, previous/next track, and LED. No volume control on it, I find that a little bit annoying. They currently don't have button customization either. I hope they will change that with future firmware
Don't have multipoint
App still in development, limited as discussed above
Case is BIG, very not pocket-friendly
Have I mentioned the volume control? There have been way too many times I find myself unable to tweak the volume because I've walked too far from my phone and can't adjust my volume at all.
*Vs. TWX9 Comparison:*
They are actually technically superior to the TWX9. Of course, these are also an extra $60 with my Kickstarter price compared to how much I paid for my TWX9 in Japanese price. For official price, we seem to be looking at a $50 difference at Cyberblade's retail price ($329) and TWX9 US price ($279). In terms of value per buck, TWX9 is still an _excellent_ choice for its cost. TWX9 is more laidback in comparison to the Cyberblade and that is not necessarily a bad thing! It is more musical and makes for a more enjoyable listen when you want to relax.

Outside of sound, there are also some things I like about TWX9 in terms of usability:

More buttons and abilities to control via your earpiece
Quick hear through is... just REALLY good. More Bluetooth earphones need this function! I find myself missing this a lot when I am without my TWX9.
Pretty much any cons that the Cyberblade has, TWX9 got me covered
*Summary*
I do like these earphones a lot! These earphones will likely stay in my reservoir and be in my rotation because I have such fun listening to that W-signature. But it is very clear that they made these earphones with gamers in mind instead of audiophiles. Some of the most common functionalities we normally expect a TWS earphone will have at that $329 price point, Cyberblade is clearly missing them. Here's hoping that they will make some updates to the firmware to fix some of those little issues because they are _really_ good actually.


----------



## potix

Did anyone try one of those new qcc5171 neckbands sold by aliexpress stores? They claim to support aptx lossless.
I also noticed that aptx site has finally added the category "snapdragon sound with aptx lossless".


----------



## pigeontree

Aurosonic said:


> For those considering the ATH-TWX9's, I want to share with you my experience.
> 
> I purchased them from Amazon Japan on October 18. They arrived quickly, and worked right out of the box. I bought them to wear in the gym, and for the past three weeks they performed nearly flawlessly (the ANC touch button on the left earbud can be wonky). This past Thursday I removed them from the charging case and started to experience issues.
> 
> ...


Have you read my experience with Amazon JP on the matter of exchange?

There was no way for me to ship them back per their DHL instructions so I got to keep both the replacement pair and the faulty pair that was DOA.

I would make them send you a replacement first and go from there, if you want my advice.

You can straight up reference my experience and ask how they expect you to get around that hurdle and see what they say.

I’m surprised the AT CS didn’t have any sort of re-pairing instructions for you to follow.


----------



## Not so fat head

Great deal


----------



## Not so fat head

On silver one..  amazing when EQ'ed.
XM3


----------



## sofastreamer

someone already auditioned the new fiios?


----------



## C_Lindbergh (Nov 12, 2022)

Anyone else considering the JVC Victor HA-FX150T? I have no previous experience with any JVC TWS tho! But the FX150T looks promising. I just love the compact format along with the focus on sound quality. There seems also to be a way to quickly pause the music and toggle ambient mode for quick convos. But it does seem a bit weird that JVC abanonded the qualcomm SoC for the FX150 when its predecesor (FX100T) had a qualcomm SoC along with APTX support.

But the downsides are that there's no simple way to return them and the lack of Aptx Adaptive/Wireless charging.


----------



## cresny

clerkpalmer said:


> It is interesting that I prefer the sound of the AT to the Bose but I absolutely love the Bose ANC. I couldn’t live without the Bose.
> 
> But I can’t disagree with your list. I haven’t dusted off my Gemini in a while but maybe I’ll charge them up and give them a whirl. I have an APP2 coming tomorrow for a second run.
> 
> ...


FYI, when I dusted off my Gemini I found that one bud barely held a charge. Not surprising, given the battery gymnastics the crazy early firmware put these through. I contacted support and without any questioning they sent me a label, and within a couple of weeks I had a brand new pair. This wasn't even using the Devialet Care that we got for free, just part of the normal two-year warranty. Just mentioning in case you have the same issue.


----------



## SynaestheticA (Nov 12, 2022)

C_Lindbergh said:


> Anyone else considering the JVC Victor HA-FX150T? I have no previous experience with any JVC TWS tho! But the FX150T looks promising. .


I'm planning on picking them up. Was considering waiting for some reviews but since the lack of FX100T reviews I think I'll just bite the bullet and go for it (instead of waiting for what might not come).

The only thing I haven't been able to find are proper specs but once again probs gonna get anyway due to design and positive feedback towards Victor in general


----------



## Aurosonic

pigeontree said:


> Have you read my experience with Amazon JP on the matter of exchange?
> 
> There was no way for me to ship them back per their DHL instructions so I got to keep both the replacement pair and the faulty pair that was DOA.
> 
> ...


I just read through your posts. Shipping lithium batteries certainly complicates things. I ran an online quote through DHL and the cost is showing $98. That's nearly half the value of the earbuds. I'll try speaking with an Amazon rep.

The AT rep I spoke with was friendly, but ultimately suggested the basic diagnostics outlined in the user manual. Per their response: "...each have their own antenna, so they are not technically paired to one another."

That may technically be true, but in practice they do need to be synced with each other. The left earbud controls the ANC mode and volume for both earbuds.


----------



## pigeontree

Aurosonic said:


> I just read through your posts. Shipping lithium batteries certainly complicates things. I ran an online quote through DHL and the cost is showing $98. That's nearly half the value of the earbuds. I'll try speaking with an Amazon rep.
> 
> The AT rep I spoke with was friendly, but ultimately suggested the basic diagnostics outlined in the user manual. Per their response: "...each have their own antenna, so they are not technically paired to one another."
> 
> That may technically be true, but in practice they do need to be synced with each other. The left earbud controls the ANC mode and volume for both earbuds.


Good luck with Amazon, I hope they’re reasonable. It took a LOT of back and forth with them before they decided to just let me keep the faulties.

That’s strange that the AT tech didn’t understand the issue, of course they need to be sync’d to one another, as you said.

When you tried the reset with the buds in the case, did you get the blinking lights aa confirmation of the reset working?


----------



## BooleanBones

erockg said:


> Sadly, I've never done it.  Once I tried, but got annoyed with all the DHL paperwork from here in the US.


Same. DHL wanted like 80$ to send a pair back when I talked to them. Much different than stopping by old Buster Brown's and snagging a tracking receipt for sure.


----------



## Aurosonic

pigeontree said:


> Good luck with Amazon, I hope they’re reasonable. It took a LOT of back and forth with them before they decided to just let me keep the faulties.
> 
> That’s strange that the AT tech didn’t understand the issue, of course they need to be sync’d to one another, as you said.
> 
> When you tried the reset with the buds in the case, did you get the blinking lights aa confirmation of the reset working?


I sent an email to Amazon JP pleading my case, as their live chat was closed for the day. $98 to ship a one pound package seems exorbitant, and the potential for the package to be denied because of the lithium batteries is disconcerting. Buying international is always a gamble, and unfortunately this time I lost.

I tried forced pairing mode where the red lights blink once, and also a full reset where the red lights blink continuously. I'm at a loss as to why they stopped working. One day they were fine, the next they're faulty.

I really liked them for the three weeks they worked. I'm undecided about what to do next. I either buy another pair of these, or try something else.


----------



## jant71

C_Lindbergh said:


> Anyone else considering the JVC Victor HA-FX150T? I have no previous experience with any JVC TWS tho! But the FX150T looks promising. I just love the compact format along with the focus on sound quality. There seems also to be a way to quickly pause the music and toggle ambient mode for quick convos. But it does seem a bit weird that JVC abanonded the qualcomm SoC for the FX150 when its predecesor (FX100T) had a qualcomm SoC along with APTX support.
> 
> But the downsides are that there's no simple way to return them and the lack of Aptx Adaptive/Wireless charging.



I have been following the JVC evolution and have had the most JVC TWS on this board. I like the idea of very small and very good. We don't seem to get both. Usually things stay pretty large. They have got the touch controls down as far as sensitivity and registering. I am okay with how they are set up as well but as usual it seems you still can't change controls around if you might like to.

I like what they did with a slight shape change from the FX100T. Not much size difference and the weight is 4.4 from 4.5. Ambient was pretty decent but should be improved. Adding ANC is good and at this point it needs to be improved over earlier models even the pricier Kenwood and wood driver models. Videos showing the newer Kenwood with ANC seem to be promising. The FX100T was another safe tuning with great bass but treble that was too polite to bring extension and more detail. Kind of let down the bass portion. The tuning modes are a good idea and should be well done and add the versatility the FX100T lacked. It needed EQ and the FX150T has brought it on board. 

You do have to pause and turn on ambient cause they still seem to be going with the lower the volume when activating ambient. Not sure why they stick with that cause if you are listening to anything other than music say, a lecture or audiobook or podcast where you can get lost if not paying attention. Why not pause and turn ambient on? Not sure why they stick with that choice. I also would like two taps to be vol+ and 3 be vol- not the other way round.

Lets hope they improved the driver and encapsulating it in metal does up the SQ and the sound modes help as well. It seems like they opted out of the codec way to better SQ and went with the other changes. Doesn't matter that much if they got the job done.


----------



## erockg

BooleanBones said:


> Same. DHL wanted like 80$ to send a pair back when I talked to them. Much different than stopping by old Buster Brown's and snagging a tracking receipt for sure.


Oof, that's insane.  The fact that I get the BB reference means I'm really really old.


----------



## SynaestheticA

jant71 said:


> The FX100T was another safe tuning with great bass but treble that was too polite to bring extension and more detail. Kind of let down the bass portion. The tuning modes are a good idea and should be well done and add the versatility the FX100T lacked. It needed EQ and the FX150T has brought it on board


The only review I can find online translated from a Japanese reviewer who tested them briefly in a store confirms what you're saying. The basic tuning is so so, but with the EQ applied it becomes quite impressive (from what they say).

Btw where did you find out about the new Kenwood?


----------



## pigeontree

Aurosonic said:


> I sent an email to Amazon JP pleading my case, as their live chat was closed for the day. $98 to ship a one pound package seems exorbitant, and the potential for the package to be denied because of the lithium batteries is disconcerting. Buying international is always a gamble, and unfortunately this time I lost.
> 
> I tried forced pairing mode where the red lights blink once, and also a full reset where the red lights blink continuously. I'm at a loss as to why they stopped working. One day they were fine, the next they're faulty.
> 
> I really liked them for the three weeks they worked. I'm undecided about what to do next. I either buy another pair of these, or try something else.


You could always buy a set from Amazon US and return them (sending the faulty pair back and keeping the working pair). It’s not really unethical since it’s all the same company anyway and there may not be another way around it with dealing directly with Amazon JP. I’d wait to hear from them first of course.


----------



## Aurosonic

pigeontree said:


> You could always buy a set from Amazon US and return them (sending the faulty pair back and keeping the working pair). It’s not really unethical since it’s all the same company anyway and there may not be another way around it with dealing directly with Amazon JP. I’d wait to hear from them first of course.


Amazon JP responded and will be sending a replacement pair. I do not need to return the faulty pair. They were very apologetic. Considering that they would need to reimburse me $98 for the return shipping, this isn't much of a loss for them. I've been an Amazon member for over 10 years and their CS has always been great. Hopefully the new pair hold up longer.

Thanks for the support. I referenced your experience and that may have helped my case.


----------



## nekonhime

Aurosonic said:


> Amazon JP responded and will be sending a replacement pair. I do not need to return the faulty pair. They were very apologetic. Considering that they would need to reimburse me $98 for the return shipping, this isn't much of a loss for them. I've been an Amazon member for over 10 years and their CS has always been great. Hopefully the new pair hold up longer.
> 
> Thanks for the support. I referenced your experience and that may have helped my case.


Do you want to sell me the faulty pairs when you received a new one?


----------



## J_3000

Onurb8690 said:


> Hi Guys,
> in the "world" of wireless iem, at the moment what do you consider a Top 5...Give priority to sound quality....


I really love my Beoplay EX and what I have been reading here (the whole topic), its by far the most well-rounded offering with a great sound quality. SQ being one of the top 2-3 TWS’s in the market, depending on who you ask.

I was hesitant on pulling the trigger on a 400€ pair of tws, but I was able to get these for 310 € with all the discounts and I have to say Im super happy. Im sure I would be happy paying 400€ also.

The sound quality is really good and it’s a pleasant experience to listen to these. No hassle, things just sound balanced good.

The phone calls are good (best I have tried in a tws). I need to have good call quality.

The design is amazing. Great fit with many options to use different 3rd party eartips of your preference. These look amazing.

The ANC has been talked about here a lot. I have to say, that it even isn’t that bad. Initially I thought its non-existent and they shouldn’t advertise it even. BUT I was using included eartips. Now Im using Spinfit CP360 (shallow design also), I have to say, these seal for me so much better and the ANC is ok!. The Spinfit CP1025 is also a good option with little deeper insertion if that’s your preference. I rarely need ANC, but this what Im getting is totally fine for me for occasional flight etc.

Transparency I don’t use or need.

These being made by a big company and the fact, that you get 3 years of warranty, Im thinking we will have product support for some time.

My full recommendation for these. If the price is a problem, Im can honestly say you are probably happier with these than buying 2-3 different TWS’s in the next two years.


----------



## gabriely (Nov 13, 2022)

J_3000 said:


> I really love my Beoplay EX and what I have been reading here (the whole topic), its by far the most well-rounded offering with a great sound quality. SQ being one of the top 2-3 TWS’s in the market, depending on who you ask.
> 
> I was hesitant on pulling the trigger on a 400€ pair of tws, but I was able to get these for 310 € with all the discounts and I have to say Im super happy. Im sure I would be happy paying 400€ also.
> 
> ...


That's awesome, so happy you're enjoying your buds. Just one quick question - the CP1025s, do the buds charge properly with those installed?

Also just for anyone who has yet to pull the trigger on a pair of EXs and are considering it - I very much agree with the sentiment of this comment, these are nice and they do a lot of things right - I've neglected to mention these are just better than everything else on the call quality front! I however stand by my comments on ANC; if you get rid of the stock tips (I run the Azla Sedna Max) that will help on sound isolation front, but just to temper expectations I will say it still will not be great.


----------



## profusion

I got Nothing Ear 1 tws but have some difficulty with the original eartips. Does anyone know how to find compatible tips for example in aliexpress?


----------



## J_3000

gabriely said:


> That's awesome, so happy you're enjoying your buds. Just one quick question - the CP1025s, do the buds charge properly with those installed?
> 
> Also just for anyone who has yet to pull the trigger on a pair of EXs and are considering it - I very much agree with the sentiment of this comment, these are nice and they do a lot of things right - I've neglected to mention these are just better than everything else on the call quality front! I however stand by my comments on ANC; if you get rid of the stock tips (I run the Azla Sedna Max) that will help on sound isolation front, but just to temper expectations I will say it still will not be great.


The CP1025 charge fine. Depth is between the CP360 and CP100. There are size charts if you google.


The ANC is not great, but like I said, compared to what it was before for me, it's usable the rare times I even need one. Today I was at a noisy cafe. Big open space, about 80 ppl or something. Everyone talking, drinking and eating. I sat down and put EX on. Took about 5-8 seconds until the ANC kicked in. I would questimate it took out about 60-70% of all the noise. Some frequencies come through more than others. 

If ANC is something you are focusing on, no, definitely not the tws for you. But, if its just a feature you might use from time to time, I doubt it will be a problem. But like with all ANC, you need a good seal. I at least am getting totally different results with the Spinfits than the stock tips. Also I used the Sedna's in the beginning for a while also, but to my recollection the ANC was similar with stock tips. I would need to do some a/b testing on this.


----------



## C_Lindbergh

There, finally ordered the JVC HA-FX150T! Will compare these against the MTW3, in the end I'm just a sucker for tiny TWS/IEMs that promises great SQ. 


Just a shame about Amazon Japans difficult of returns so I would have to sell them in case their not to my liking.
​


----------



## Fleeple (Nov 13, 2022)

MaxwellDemon said:


> More thoughts on the Cyberblade now that I have some time to sit with them. First thing is the thinness is due to the "booster" system they are using when their "main hub" is connected via USB. Once I switch to Bluetooth, these sound _so much better_.
> 
> Now onto some proper thoughts, some mini review for it! Of course, it has been ages since I wrote any sort of audio review, so be gentle with me on it...
> 
> ...


Definitely find myself agreeing (never got around to making my own review), and would also recommend remembering that if you slap these on the charger base at night and don't like glaring lights you can hit the lid three times to turn them on/off. Passthrough is also basically a superpower with these 😅 I can hear more with them in then out. Definitely agree on the case size being unwieldy, and locking the different eq signatures behind a lab password (AM8888) is a bit weird, but I have decent earbuds that pretty much just stay connected and an excellent fidget toy now 🙂 these may be it for me for the time being. Would only consider trying the nuras at this point.


----------



## jant71 (Nov 13, 2022)

SynaestheticA said:


> The only review I can find online translated from a Japanese reviewer who tested them briefly in a store confirms what you're saying. The basic tuning is so so, but with the EQ applied it becomes quite impressive (from what they say).
> 
> Btw where did you find out about the new Kenwood?



JVC released the pair of brothers as I call them at around the same time a while back about 6 months ago. The JVC is called the XC72T and the Kenwood is called the BIZ70T. Some reviews and videos showing some elementary over video ANC testing but you can tell it is better than the old Kenwood, or I can tell since I have it. Light on the ANC esp. since they fit so shallow but today is certainly made a difference on a windy day. 

The FXT100T is capable of more isolation so I have hope for the FX150T to have better ANC plus better passive isolation. Should be a worthy step up though it will not make Sony or Bose break a sweat. Of course better mics should be in there from 2 years ago to make bot the ANC and ambient do better. Size they might have tweaked the shape but they won't get much smaller nor would you want that for the sake of easier fit and the touch controls becoming an issue when inserting or adjusting.


----------



## jant71

C_Lindbergh said:


> There, finally ordered the JVC HA-FX150T! Will compare these against the MTW3, in the end I'm just a sucker for tiny TWS/IEMs that promises great SQ.
> 
> 
> Just a shame about Amazon Japans difficult of returns so I would have to sell them in case their not to my liking.
> ​


You mean pre-ordered.  Hope the Yen drops a bit by release. It went up bit recently. Maybe they will go down below $130 before shipping.

Like I sold the FX100T and Yamaha E5B, and  ATH-CKR70TW etc. that I bought from JP. Though it is probably as hard now as ever to sell and get most of your $$ back.


----------



## pigeontree

Aurosonic said:


> Amazon JP responded and will be sending a replacement pair. I do not need to return the faulty pair. They were very apologetic. Considering that they would need to reimburse me $98 for the return shipping, this isn't much of a loss for them. I've been an Amazon member for over 10 years and their CS has always been great. Hopefully the new pair hold up longer.
> 
> Thanks for the support. I referenced your experience and that may have helped my case.


So glad that worked out for you.

Btw it may be too late but when they placed my replacement order for me, it had standard shipping but it allowed me to upgrade to faster shipping at no cost. Might want to check that out if they haven’t shipped yet.


----------



## Blueshound24 (Nov 13, 2022)

J_3000 said:


> I really love my Beoplay EX and what I have been reading here (the whole topic), its by far the most well-rounded offering with a great sound quality. SQ being one of the top 2-3 TWS’s in the market, depending on who you ask.
> 
> I was hesitant on pulling the trigger on a 400€ pair of tws, but I was able to get these for 310 € with all the discounts and I have to say Im super happy. Im sure I would be happy paying 400€ also.
> 
> ...



Is there a way with Spinfits to buy a pack with 2 pair of the same size tips? I bought a pack of CP360  ML thinking it would be two pair of the one size “medium/large” like AZLA SednaEarfit Crystal. Instead one package comes with one medium and one large. I would like to buy a few pairs of large and I don’t want any other sizes. Kinda expensive to buy a package with 2 pair in it and only get 1 usable pair 

It appears all Spinfits mix sizes in each package?
​EDIT:
BTW, I love the EX as well! So much presence and texture! However I don't hear ANC or transparency doing much, but it's not a big deal to me anyway. Weird, I usually like one or the other on, vs "neutral", (neither on). It just has a bit more body to it.


----------



## Aurosonic

pigeontree said:


> So glad that worked out for you.
> 
> Btw it may be too late but when they placed my replacement order for me, it had standard shipping but it allowed me to upgrade to faster shipping at no cost. Might want to check that out if they haven’t shipped yet.


The Amazon rep said they will be delivered on 11/17, so if they ship tomorrow that's three day shipping. That's how long the original pair took to arrive.


----------



## Aurosonic

nekonhime said:


> Do you want to sell me the faulty pairs when you received a new one?


I am undecided about what I will do with the faulty pair. I'll let you know if I offload them.


----------



## cresny

jant71 said:


> You mean pre-ordered.  Hope the Yen drops a bit by release. It went up bit recently. Maybe they will go down below $130 before shipping.
> 
> Like I sold the FX100T and Yamaha E5B, and  ATH-CKR70TW etc. that I bought from JP. Though it is probably as hard now as ever to sell and get most of your $$ back.


I'd say that if you have a "yen" to make a purchase on amazon.jp, may as well do it now. https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...-billion-in-october-to-prop-up-yen-in-markets


----------



## MaxwellDemon

Fleeple said:


> Definitely find myself agreeing (never got around to making my own review), and would also recommend remembering that if you slap these on the charger base at night and don't like glaring lights you can hit the lid three times to turn them on/off. Passthrough is also basically a superpower with these 😅 I can hear more with them in then out. Definitely agree on the case size being unwieldy, and locking the different eq signatures behind a lab password (AM8888) is a bit weird, but I have decent earbuds that pretty much just stay connected and an excellent fidget toy now 🙂 these may be it for me for the time being. Would only consider trying the nuras at this point.


The connection is definitely one of the pluses for the Cyberblade! These things (when going through the USB DAC especially) go faaaaaaaaaar.


----------



## davescleveland

clerkpalmer said:


> GBPro2 ahead of TWX9 ….? Fighting words.
> 
> The TWX9 has to be the surprise hit of the year.


I reach for my noble FoKus pto more than my ex


----------



## nekonhime

https://www.woot.com/category/headphones?ref=mwj_scr_cat_electronics
There are some deals for the headphone and earbuds department for anyone in the US.


----------



## J_3000 (Nov 14, 2022)

Blueshound24 said:


> Is there a way with Spinfits to buy a pack with 2 pair of the same size tips? I bought a pack of CP360  ML thinking it would be two pair of the one size “medium/large” like AZLA SednaEarfit Crystal. Instead one package comes with one medium and one large. I would like to buy a few pairs of large and I don’t want any other sizes. Kinda expensive to buy a package with 2 pair in it and only get 1 usable pair
> 
> It appears all Spinfits mix sizes in each package?
> ​EDIT:
> BTW, I love the EX as well! So much presence and texture! However I don't hear ANC or transparency doing much, but it's not a big deal to me anyway. Weird, I usually like one or the other on, vs "neutral", (neither on). It just has a bit more body to it.


It depends on the Spinfit model. I dont know how they choose this. Some come in pairs like the CP100, but CP360 come in two sizes (which I liked😀). The new W1 came all three sizes on one pack.

I had this mixed up on my previous post. The CP1025 is the shallower one that Im currently using with the EX. Super comfortable and the seal is good, best I have gotten. The CP360 is the model with little deeper insertion. The CP360 works also on the EX, but for me the ML from the CP1025 is the best one.

I still dont have the update 😞 B&O where's the love?

EDIT: Literally 1 hour later this post the update became availbale for me. Thank you B&O for reading this topic and sending the love 😀


----------



## jant71

cresny said:


> I'd say that if you have a "yen" to make a purchase on amazon.jp, may as well do it now. https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...-billion-in-october-to-prop-up-yen-in-markets


Just saying it would be nice to save a couple of bucks. It makes no difference since they don't charge you till it ships so that day's exchange rate tells the tale. Pre-ordering the first day it appeared on Amazon.jp does not lock in a lower price if it goes up.


----------



## clerkpalmer

Off topic a bit but you guys know your stuff - anyone using over ears for working out?  I tried my APM a few times lifting and they slide off.  I have a smallish head.  Would love to use BT cans from time to time if there is anything suitable.  I would not use them for cardio/sweat.


----------



## Blueshound24 (Nov 14, 2022)

J_3000 said:


> It depends on the Spinfit model. I dont know how they choose this. Some come in pairs like the CP100, but CP360 come in two sizes (which I liked😀). The new W1 came all three sizes on one pack.
> 
> I had this mixed up on my previous post. The CP1025 is the shallower one that Im currently using with the EX. Super comfortable and the seal is good, best I have gotten. The CP360 is the model with little deeper insertion. The CP360 works also on the EX, but for me the ML from the CP1025 is the best one.
> 
> ...



With my ear shape I need a deep insertion, so I tried the CP360 with the EX and GB2P, and it maybe had better fit over stock tips?

So I'd like to find aftermarket tips with the deepest insertion for the EX and GB2P that still allow charging without removing tips.

Any ideas?

My guess it would be the CP360...


----------



## xSDMx

clerkpalmer said:


> Off topic a bit but you guys know your stuff - anyone using over ears for working out?  I tried my APM a few times lifting and they slide off.  I have a smallish head.  Would love to use BT cans from time to time if there is anything suitable.  I would not use them for cardio/sweat.


TW2 + negative profile IEM of choice (ex. SE846) is perfect fit, comfort, and secure for active use. I run long distances and lift weights and never feel like they aren't locked in.


----------



## nekonhime

clerkpalmer said:


> Off topic a bit but you guys know your stuff - anyone using over ears for working out?  I tried my APM a few times lifting and they slide off.  I have a smallish head.  Would love to use BT cans from time to time if there is anything suitable.  I would not use them for cardio/sweat.


Have you try the px7? They have strong clamp force that can hold on my head even I jumped around. The xm4 also a good one but will break from sweat (from my experience)


----------



## LordToneeus

clerkpalmer said:


> Off topic a bit but you guys know your stuff - anyone using over ears for working out?  I tried my APM a few times lifting and they slide off.  I have a smallish head.  Would love to use BT cans from time to time if there is anything suitable.  I would not use them for cardio/sweat.


I used my V-Moda Crossfades once or twice in a wintery garage because they’re built like tanks, but I really prefer in ears for training. Having said that, I’d happily use my ATH-M50xBT’s for training should the fancy strike me.


----------



## clerkpalmer

nekonhime said:


> Have you try the px7? They have strong clamp force that can hold on my head even I jumped around. The xm4 also a good one but will break from sweat (from my experience)


Strong clamp is what I need.  The PX7/2 look nice although the PX8 look even nicer ...


----------



## SynaestheticA

Full review of the Morph Infiniconnect up

https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/morph-infiniconnect.26170/


----------



## helmutcheese




----------



## SynaestheticA

What are some features people seem to demand in TWS but you wouldn't pay extra for?

I wouldn't pay extra for
- Alexa/Siri/any voice command
- spatial audio
- ANC to some degree


----------



## nekonhime

SynaestheticA said:


> What are some features people seem to demand in TWS but you wouldn't pay extra for?
> 
> I wouldn't pay extra for
> - Alexa/Siri/any voice command
> ...


Fancy materials that easy to get scratches all over
The fancy case


----------



## nekonhime

clerkpalmer said:


> Strong clamp is what I need.  The PX7/2 look nice although the PX8 look even nicer ...


The px7 were return due to the clamp force so it should be good ( I have a big head so I felt it was smashing my tiny brain lol)


----------



## Caipirina

SynaestheticA said:


> What are some features people seem to demand in TWS but you wouldn't pay extra for?
> 
> I wouldn't pay extra for
> - Alexa/Siri/any voice command
> ...


Phone calls! 
I actually would happily pay extra for TWS that are audio listening only / microphones only for ANC .. and NO chance that some random call could interrupt my music listening ... 

AFAIK only the 1More comfobuds Z have that, as they are marketed as sleepbuds ...


----------



## xSDMx

The nura trues look so uncomfortable.


----------



## james444

Caipirina said:


> Phone calls!
> I actually would happily pay extra for TWS that are audio listening only / microphones only for ANC .. and NO chance that some random call could interrupt my music listening ...



Hmm... just pair any TWS for stereo audio only and uncheck the headset profile. Then mute your phone's ringtone and you're all set.


----------



## SynaestheticA

jant71 said:


> JVC released the pair of brothers as I call them at around the same time a while back about 6 months ago. The JVC is called the XC72T and the Kenwood is called the BIZ70T.


Sorry to harp on about this, just hard to get answers as there is little english written about these models.

Is that to say that these two are essentially the same product?





Kenwood BIZ70T




JVC XC72T

And by that token they are both amazing?


----------



## jant71 (Nov 15, 2022)

SynaestheticA said:


> Sorry to harp on about this, just hard to get answers as there is little english written about these models.
> 
> Is that to say that these two are essentially the same product?
> 
> ...


They are related with the driver and chip and similar equipment. Different housing, tuning, and other differences like the Kenwood has a button. They made a 7 series for each line. One is for the consumers and bass lovers with the XX and the Kenwood is going for a more worker's headset approach and of course has the cute BIZ name. Think of it as General Motors, where the JVC would be a Chevy Cruze SS and the Kenwood would be a Buick Verano. Same parent company and same platform but differentiated for different people.

They are solid. I said the Kenwood showed the improvement over the older ANC but that was not hard to beat. Good, solid, getting nice reviews but they are low $100-ish models and I am not sure there is a $100 model that is amazing in all of TWS unless your "amazing" is a lower bar . These two won't be either. I did not feel the need to try either one though the Kenwood was a bit tempting to try out. They,  JVC, are progressing and showing some of us that the FX150T should be something well worth a purchase if they do better. Better SQ over the FX100T that would be real good. If they give the ANC of the BIZ or hopefully even a bit better that would be good enough etc. It has been more about gauging the FX150T than the other two.


----------



## Juturna

xSDMx said:


> The nura trues look so uncomfortable.


I doubt they are. The first generation/non-pros weren't uncomfortable at all during the shorter listening sessions i've tried with them. Less of the earbud goes into the ear than one might expect.


----------



## james444 (Nov 15, 2022)

Baseus Storm 3






In a nutshell, this is excellent half-inears hardware, but marred by crappy software. Problem is, you need the software to get the best out of the hardware.

These TWS earbuds have great build quality and a gorgeous finish. Probably the best looking half-inears I've seen so far. Plus, they're extremely comfy and have the potential to sound very good.

However, there are many issues. First of all, the stock sound is pretty far from what's possible, so you need the Baseus app to optimize it via 8-band EQ. Now, there is an ANC mode, which actually does very little in terms of noise reduction (considering these are non-sealing buds), but lowers the battery life from ~4 to 2.5 hours. However, the stock frequency response gets markedly changed by ANC, so you'll need one custom EQ for normal mode and another one for ANC.

So you edit your custom EQ by adjusting the sliders to your taste, only to find out that the app frequently modifies some bands by +/-1db during the save process. You'll need to write down your intended settings on a piece of paper, then re-check and re-edit to (after several iterations) end up with correctly saved EQ settings. It also doesn't help that the app's detection of the TWS is rather unstable, so it will disconnect from time to time and tell you that you can't change settings, when in reality your phone has a stable connection to the earbuds.

Anyway, after quite a tedious process, but motivated by the potentially great sound quality these buds are capable of, you'll end up with two optimized EQ settings for normal mode and ANC. It's then when you'll find out that, after recharging and taking it out of the case, the TWS remembers the last used EQ setting, but not the ANC mode (it always defaults to ANC on). So you'll have to manually make sure that ANC mode and EQ setting remain consistent.

If you've read so far, you'll legitimately ask yourself: why even bother? Well, because after all is said and done, these are really good looking, very comfortable and excellent sounding earbuds. Still, I can't recommend them to anyone with low frustration tolerance, unless Baseus get their crap together and provide an app that does their quality hardware justice.


----------



## scubaphish

Maybe everyone knows this already, but I just realized that the ATH-TWX9 are here in the states, at least at Audio46


----------



## nekonhime

scubaphish said:


> Maybe everyone knows this already, but I just realized that the ATH-TWX9 are here in the states, at least at Audio46


They also available on amazon too but through third party seller


----------



## Toom

Fiio FW5 - anyone heard them yet?


----------



## jant71 (Nov 15, 2022)

Toom said:


> Fiio FW5 - anyone heard them yet?


Just came out so nobody would have them yet outside of reviewers which you probably can't even trust. They are not for those who want anything other than sound though. If you want ambient or ANC or multipoint or an app etc. you need to look elsewhere. Figure by the end of 2022 they would at least have a way to hear through and interact with your surroundings.

I would imagine they sound good. I doubt they will be up there with Jabra or Apple or Sony for call quality so they promise one thing. Figure they have to do it well. If they don't sound good then what is the point.


----------



## Sam L

james444 said:


> Baseus Storm 3
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thx, @james444 for taking the time and effort to highlight half-in-ears. It's a format I prefer from time to time.


----------



## jant71

Sam L said:


> Thx, @james444 for taking the time and effort to highlight half-in-ears. It's a format I prefer from time to time.


But when is he gonna do the Cleer ARC. Sometimes I prefer a zero-in-ear format.


----------



## J_3000

Blueshound24 said:


> With my ear shape I need a deep insertion, so I tried the CP360 with the EX and GB2P, and it maybe had better fit over stock tips?
> 
> So I'd like to find aftermarket tips with the deepest insertion for the EX and GB2P that still allow charging without removing tips.
> 
> ...


I think I had the CP100 or CP145 for few days and I didnt notice it wouldnt charge. Thats even deeper model than the CP360. I would need to test this properly for you.


----------



## james444

jant71 said:


> But when is he gonna do the Cleer ARC. Sometimes I prefer a zero-in-ear format.



Not gonna happen, sorry. Regardless of how they sound, a charging case with fixed USB-A cable is a no-go for me in 2022.


----------



## Aurosonic

My replacement pair of ATH-TWX9's arrived today–two days earlier than expected. Gotta love Amazon 2-day shipping.

Back in business. Hopefully this pair lasts longer than 3-weeks. I can now use the features in the AT Connect app. Setting touch button sensitivity to high fixed the wonky controls, and they now respond the first time I press them.


----------



## clerkpalmer

Any deals to be had on the EX anywhere? Tried the usual locations but nothing that compelling. $347 on Amazon. Some on eBay but from Japan. Maybe Black Friday?


----------



## gabriely

clerkpalmer said:


> Any deals to be had on the EX anywhere? Tried the usual locations but nothing that compelling. $347 on Amazon. Some on eBay but from Japan. Maybe Black Friday?


I think you'll have to wait for Black Friday - deals on the EX don't show up very often sadly!


----------



## J_3000

gabriely said:


> I think you'll have to wait for Black Friday - deals on the EX don't show up very often sadly!


On Primeday the EQ went down to 150€ or something. There might be hope 😄


----------



## J_3000

Blueshound24 said:


> With my ear shape I need a deep insertion, so I tried the CP360 with the EX and GB2P, and it maybe had better fit over stock tips?
> 
> So I'd like to find aftermarket tips with the deepest insertion for the EX and GB2P that still allow charging without removing tips.
> 
> ...


Quick test. Pressing the tip all the way down. All of them disconnect immediately, so I would assume they charge just fine? The stem of the tws does not seat all the way down, which I realized earlier when using the CP100 for a second, but as the charging contacts are at the bottom, it might not be a big deal.


From left to right:
CP145, CP100, W1, CP360, CP1025 and Azla Sedna's.

All sizes medium.

Im getting the best fit and seal with the 1025 M and L. Although I could use the 360 and even the deeper 145, but I feel the shallow insertion is more comfortable. 

The Spinfit's give me more comfort vs the Sedna's. The flexible stem is really good for me.


----------



## Caipirina

james444 said:


> Baseus Storm 3
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I got those back in August and wrote about them here. 

Was hopeful, but ultimately disappointed that ANC did not really work, their claims made it sound like they had cracked the code on how to do ANC in semi in ears ... 

Found some anti-slip ear tips, designed for the airpods 3, which help quite some with the seal and hence the ANC ... but it's a bit of a hassle to put on, since you can't leave em on when putting in case .. 
But they sure are pretty


----------



## chinmie

Caipirina said:


> I got those back in August and wrote about them here.
> 
> Was hopeful, but ultimately disappointed that ANC did not really work, their claims made it sound like they had cracked the code on how to do ANC in semi in ears ...
> 
> ...



try the Huawei Freebuds 4 if you have the chance. it's ANC is quite good for open earbuds design. it cuts out the low noises, though because of the nature of it's design, highs and mids noises would still be audible. 

the only gripe i had with it was the low battery life


----------



## jant71 (Nov 16, 2022)

Perhaps of interest - Hexamove Pro for $69.99 https://www.v-moda.com/us/en/produc...HQAiDiZLYCoPNUptThc7qJXc0vo0luEMaAhQbEALw_wcB
plus 10% if you have signed up by email. Seems decent except for the xtra grande case. Seems they had an update as well that fixes the volume level that wasn't loud enough before and the app is improved than early on.


----------



## erockg

jant71 said:


> Perhaps of interest - Hexamove Pro for $69.99 https://www.v-moda.com/us/en/produc...HQAiDiZLYCoPNUptThc7qJXc0vo0luEMaAhQbEALw_wcB
> plus 10% if you have signed up by email. Seems decent except for the xtra grande case. Seems they had an update as well that fixes the volume level that wasn't loud enough before and the app is improved than early on.


Had these twice.  They DO sound great.  Nice sub-bass.  But that case.  It's awful.  HUGE.  Buds are tiny.  They did fix the volume when I had them.  EQ was also needed.  For $69 they are definitley worth a shot.  That said, customer service is non-existent.


----------



## zakurie

I listened to the EX and was impressed with the sound quality. How do ATH-TWX9 compare?


----------



## Caipirina

chinmie said:


> try the Huawei Freebuds 4 if you have the chance. it's ANC is quite good for open earbuds design. it cuts out the low noises, though because of the nature of it's design, highs and mids noises would still be audible.
> 
> the only gripe i had with it was the low battery life


Interesting! I shall hope that e-earphone has them on the floor for testing. Amazon JP has a 4000Y off coupon right now, so it would still clock in at 103USD ...


----------



## helmutcheese (Nov 16, 2022)

Discount Vouchers to get more of an already good price on both Amazon UK and US.


----------



## Fleeple

Nuratrue pros finally launching today and are 10% off for 24 hours to celebrate on their website if anyone is interested 😊 not sure which time-zone tho.....


----------



## subguy812

zakurie said:


> I listened to the EX and was impressed with the sound quality. How do ATH-TWX9 compare?


I would search this thread...this has been discussed many times


----------



## raymanh

helmutcheese said:


> Discount Vouchers to get more of an already good price on both Amazon UK and US.




Might have to pick those up while I wait for the Liberty 4's to hit the shelves here in Europe.


----------



## james444

Caipirina said:


> Interesting! I shall hope that e-earphone has them on the floor for testing. Amazon JP has a 4000Y off coupon right now, so it would still clock in at 103USD ...



The likely reason for that 4000Y off coupon:

https://www.technobugg.com/huawei-freebuds-5-launch-timeline-leaked/

In the EU, the Freebuds 4 are down to ~80 euros now.


----------



## bladefd

If there are any black Friday tws sales any of you run into, let us know here!


----------



## Blueshound24

bladefd said:


> If there are any black Friday tws sales any of you run into, let us know here!




Please share, especially with anything "Noble" related!


----------



## TK33 (Nov 17, 2022)

TK33 said:


> Not sure if this has been posted already but pretty excited to see Linkbuds is getting multipoint.  Looks like the update applies to the Linkbuds, Linkbuds S and XM4.  Looking forward to it.  Now if only I can figure out where I left my Linkbuds...


Just updated Linkbuds.  Now have multipoint, which is great.  Update took a few minutes (maybe 5?) And seems to be working fine. Just got a call while I was testing and writing this.  Not sure if the firmware update is out for other models yet but figured I would let the group know.

EDIT: just tried testing with my Samsung Galaxy S22+ and Dell XPS laptop.  Linkbuds connect immediately to both devices (didnt even need to go into Bluetooth Settings on my Windows laptop, which was nice) and when a call came in while I was listening to something on my laptop, the audio switched right over to my phone and I could hear my ringtone on my Linkbuds.  Switching audio between the two devices while listening to Amazon Music on both required pausing on the first device in order to get audio from the other.  However, the audio did switch right away once paused on the first device. Glad to see multipoint becoming more prevalent in TWS (my main TWS rotation includes the Linkbuds and MTW3, both of which are spoiling me with multipoint now).


----------



## erockg

Good deal:  https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B099KVZRN7/ref=ewc_pr_img_1?smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER&th=1

15% off with coupon, then another 10% back if you use an Amazon card.


----------



## dweaver

TK33 said:


> Just updated Linkbuds.  Now have multipoint, which is great.  Update took a few minutes (maybe 5?) And seems to be working fine. Just got a call while I was testing and writing this.  Not sure if the firmware update is out for other models yet but figured I would let the group know.


I also installed the update on my Linkbuds S but it was slow as all get out. About 20 minutes for my pair. Will see how well it works tomorrow.


----------



## nekonhime

TK33 said:


> Just updated Linkbuds.  Now have multipoint, which is great.  Update took a few minutes (maybe 5?) And seems to be working fine. Just got a call while I was testing and writing this.  Not sure if the firmware update is out for other models yet but figured I would let the group know.


I don't see anything for the xm4 yet


----------



## helmutcheese

Wonder if their QA has improved, this model is not for me but some of you may like them.


----------



## cresny

erockg said:


> Good deal:  https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B099KVZRN7/ref=ewc_pr_img_1?smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER&th=1
> 
> 15% off with coupon, then another 10% back if you use an Amazon card.


I thought the Prime CC discount was 5%


----------



## james444

helmutcheese said:


> Wonder if their QA has improved



I've had two pairs of Soundpeats Air 3 (standard model, not deluxe) for months without a single issue.


----------



## erockg

cresny said:


> I thought the Prime CC discount was 5%


----------



## jant71 (Nov 17, 2022)

Not that it makes much difference.....



FX150T are actually a bit bigger than their predecessor.


----------



## cresny

Hmm, does not show up for me. I guess it's because I'm leeching off my cousin's Prime (I only get 3% back). I guess you gotta pay for perks!


----------



## erockg

cresny said:


> Hmm, does not show up for me. I guess it's because I'm leeching off my cousin's Prime (I only get 3% back). I guess you gotta pay for perks!


Ha ha!  Definitely why or it's targeted.  Bummer.


----------



## SynaestheticA

jant71 said:


> Not that it makes much difference.....
> 
> FX150T are actually a bit bigger than their predecessor.


Dang, TWS photos can be so misleading.

Hope that bigger size is due to a whole bunch of updated drivers/technology.

Got mine arriving Tuesday, trying to avoid looking for reviews until then but don't think I'll be able to help myself.


----------



## C_Lindbergh

I noticed that the app for the new FX150T is also avaibile, but can't seem to download it unless you're in japan (I've tried with a VPN too)


----------



## dougms3

I'm not too familiar with TWS iems and I'm looking for a gift for my teenage nephew, a budding audiophile.

Can anyone recommend something under $100?

Thanks.


----------



## nekonhime

dougms3 said:


> I'm not too familiar with TWS iems and I'm looking for a gift for my teenage nephew, a budding audiophile.
> 
> Can anyone recommend something under $100?
> 
> Thanks.


I am recommending the kenwood ws a1( the downside is it might be too big), akg n400nc


----------



## Fleeple

C_Lindbergh said:


> I noticed that the app for the new FX150T is also avaibile, but can't seem to download it unless you're in japan (I've tried with a VPN too)


I've had good luck with apkpure 😊 (used it for some Japanese earbuds I can't remember the name of that I couldn't return because dhl fees :/)


----------



## dweaver

dougms3 said:


> I'm not too familiar with TWS iems and I'm looking for a gift for my teenage nephew, a budding audiophile.
> 
> Can anyone recommend something under $100?
> 
> Thanks.


Soundcore Space A40 is a good choice. Decent ANC, fairly balanced sound, great EQ and app, long battery life, SBC, AAC and LDAC support.


----------



## SynaestheticA

C_Lindbergh said:


> I noticed that the app for the new FX150T is also avaibile, but can't seem to download it unless you're in japan (I've tried with a VPN too)


Might be by design. The only way to circumvent the website not letting people outside of Japan order the 150T was by getting an Amazon Japan account (for me in aus atleast). Changing the sound signatures seems essential so hope we can access it.


----------



## dougms3

dweaver said:


> Soundcore Space A40 is a good choice. Decent ANC, fairly balanced sound, great EQ and app, long battery life, SBC, AAC and LDAC support.


I wasn't aware that anker is making audiophile level iems now.  Is the SQ on par with something like a KZ DQ6 or CCA CRA?

SQ and LDAC support are the priority.


----------



## chinmie

dweaver said:


> Soundcore Space A40 is a good choice. Decent ANC, fairly balanced sound, great EQ and app, long battery life, SBC, AAC and LDAC support.



I've been really pleased with their life dot/a 3i (after EQ) that I'm really tempted to buy the a40 also


----------



## cresny

dweaver said:


> Soundcore Space A40 is a good choice. Decent ANC, fairly balanced sound, great EQ and app, long battery life, SBC, AAC and LDAC support.


I have the Anker Soundcore Liberty Air something Pro something, and found the tuning really good, rivaling other more expensive ones I have, same with ANC. So I agree that for under $100, I would go with Anker Soundcore. Just good luck figuring out all the names and numbers!


----------



## jant71

SynaestheticA said:


> Might be by design. The only way to circumvent the website not letting people outside of Japan order the 150T was by getting an Amazon Japan account (for me in aus atleast). Changing the sound signatures seems essential so hope we can access it.


If you mean the presets you can regardless. Just easier, supposedly, with the app than cycling through. But if you are out and about getting out your phone, opening the app, going to the section and changing really isn't any worse than cycling through using the R bud. I would rather have 6 settings though than them choosing to have less. The world we live in right? The review complaining about pressing a button. Much ado about nothing cause most of us choose what sounds best and leave it. I only need to change when listening to radio mystery theater shows since they are a few times from old cassette recordings which may sound like crap and be hard to hear.


----------



## pigeontree

dougms3 said:


> I'm not too familiar with TWS iems and I'm looking for a gift for my teenage nephew, a budding audiophile.
> 
> Can anyone recommend something under $100?
> 
> Thanks.


Soundcore liberty pro 3, they’re on sale on Amazon for $99.


----------



## Mick McMack

Hi fellas and ladies, it's nice to make your acquaintance. I currently own a pair of Sony WFC500 wireless earbuds, whilst I think they are decent, there would be considerable improvements if I spent a bit more. I've been playing guitar for 40 years and I love listening to and playing from the blues up to 80s heavy rock /metal.Wall flattening bass isn't something I'm particularly hung up on, for me it's about accurate midrange and present top end without ear fatigue. I had been looking at the Sony WF1000XM4 earbuds, but they are really bulky and I have comfort concerns about them. The Jabra 85T gets plenty of good comments, but I am still unsure. I have 0% interest in current music and given my tastes, I would be grateful for recommendations


----------



## nekonhime

pigeontree said:


> Soundcore liberty pro 3, they’re on sale on Amazon for $99.


Ebay for 69


----------



## jant71

nekonhime said:


> Ebay for 69


To be totally accurate they are the same $99 new on ebay. The $69 are refurbs.


----------



## SynaestheticA

jant71 said:


> If you mean the presets you can regardless. Just easier, supposedly, with the app than cycling through


Ah ok nice. If the R bud only cycles through the presets then that's enough for me as Yea, I'm a set and forget user. Still would be nice to know which preset I'm on. 

Hoping the manual has some english to it.

Btw do you read Japanese?


----------



## BooleanBones

dougms3 said:


> I'm not too familiar with TWS iems and I'm looking for a gift for my teenage nephew, a budding audiophile.
> 
> Can anyone recommend something under $100?
> 
> Thanks.


I think the AKGN400 NCs are really good deal for the price they sell them for. Right now they list them on their site for 150, but they were selling them last holidays for 50$.


----------



## jant71 (Nov 18, 2022)

SynaestheticA said:


> Ah ok nice. If the R bud only cycles through the presets then that's enough for me as Yea, I'm a set and forget user. Still would be nice to know which preset I'm on.
> 
> Hoping the manual has some english to it.
> 
> Btw do you read Japanese?


Should be an english instruction section. I don't read Japanese but maybe I just already know what you want to know about. The buds should tell you what preset you are on. I'm sure it will say "bass", "clear" etc. as it is changed. Like the FX100T it will speak in english. Had the same lady with asian accent talk to me in most all the JVC/Victor/Kenwood buds and others. She is Chinese and talks to me in my Hiby WU1 and BQeyz Z3.


----------



## jant71 (Nov 18, 2022)

New Creative...
https://us.creative.com/p/headphones-headsets/creative-sensemore-air




Supposed to be their smallest and lightest. Sensemore is amplified hearing. Not just ambient so you can choose in the app to use either Ambient->ANC->Off or Sensemore->ANC->Off and the levels of all three can be adjusted higher and lower in the app. Hopefully the ANC on high at least is a decent amount by now. I like the idea of the Sensemore just needs to be implemented well. If you want to tout that people with minor hearing loss can use it effectively it needs to be clear and well done as far as pulling in voices.


----------



## go0gle

Just got the apple pro 2 yesterday... SQ is good enough to where if you own an iPhone the extra features and integration you get outweigh any potential better sound quality you might get from another pair. 

They are also very comfortable. 

I'll still keep my liberty 3 pro because I love the sound, but they won't get much use now.


----------



## dweaver (Nov 18, 2022)

Mick McMack said:


> Hi fellas and ladies, it's nice to make your acquaintance. I currently own a pair of Sony WFC500 wireless earbuds, whilst I think they are decent, there would be considerable improvements if I spent a bit more. I've been playing guitar for 40 years and I love listening to and playing from the blues up to 80s heavy rock /metal.Wall flattening bass isn't something I'm particularly hung up on, for me it's about accurate midrange and present top end without ear fatigue. I had been looking at the Sony WF1000XM4 earbuds, but they are really bulky and I have comfort concerns about them. The Jabra 85T gets plenty of good comments, but I am still unsure. I have 0% interest in current music and given my tastes, I would be grateful for recommendations


I would suggest the Galaxy Buds 2 Pro and avoid the WF-1000XM4. The GB2P has an AKG voiced signature that is mid centric brighter without becoming to fatiguing. The Sony is going to be very dark sounding which is not good for guitars.


----------



## Phaethon

dweaver said:


> I would suggest the Galaxy Buds 2 Pro and avoid the WF-1000XM4. The GB2P has an AKG voiced signature that is mid centric brighter without becoming to fatiguing. The Sony is going to be very dark sounding which is not good for guitars.


With the caveat regarding the iPhone. There is no iOS app but if you have a relative or a friend with an android phone, you can update them and set them up just the way you want them using that. I really enjoy their sound and the ANC is just fine for me.


----------



## dweaver

Good point about the iphone I forgot about that.


----------



## Mick McMack (Nov 19, 2022)

dweaver said:


> I would suggest the Galaxy Buds 2 Pro and avoid the WF-1000XM4. The GB2P has an AKG voiced signature that is mid centric brighter without becoming to fatiguing. The Sony is going to be very dark sounding which is not good for guitars.


What are your thoughts on the jabra 85t units   and sony linkbuds S ?


----------



## Phaethon (Nov 19, 2022)

Mick McMack said:


> What are your thoughts on the jabra 85t units   and sony linkbuds S ?


The Jabra models are all fine, but their sound signature has never done anything for me. The Linkbuds S have a lot less darkness than the xm4 but it seems to lack some separation of details to me.
The Noble Fokus Pro is the best sounding TWS I have. The AKG n400 have the distinction of a wonderful sound that has no noticeable coloration. The Lyperteks all have the best sound quality bang for buck. 
These are all at least as big as the xmr4’s though. TWS is all about trade-offs and there is really no unicorn


----------



## dweaver (Nov 19, 2022)

Mick McMack said:


> What are your thoughts on the jabra 85t units   and sony linkbuds S ?


I have not heard the Jabra 85T so can not speak about that specific model. But I have owned the Elite 3 and Elite 7 Pro and I sold the Elite 3 and returned the Elite 7 Pro. I was not a huge fan of the buttons system because they hurt my ears. I don't mind buttons but only if they don't push into my ears. Sonically speaking both sets sounded almost exactly the same. The sound on those models was nicely balanced with slightly to polite bass (I believe the 85T has more bass) that made most music sound good. My issue was they were like a good low res TV. They sounded good until you compared them beside a good TWS that had higher detail and resolution. I unfortunately have bought to many products as part of my passion for headphone audio as a hobby so once I could tell the difference I found it just to hard to ignore.

The other reasons I went away from the Jabra's was because I was not super enamored with their Microphone quality. The Elite 7 Pro surprised me in that I was not super happy with this area as that supposed to their biggest strength. I also like good ambient mode which I found to subdued for my liking. Similarly ANC was on only just OK.

I actually own the Sony Linkbuds S and as of the writing have 495+ hours of use on them. So I definitely like them. These, unlike the WF-1000XM3 and by extension the WF-1000XM4 are not as dark or warm sounding. They have an excellent midrange tonality. But the dialed back bass also impacts the sub-bass a bit more than I like. The treble is very Sony like in that is a bit on the polite side so lacks sparkle and detail, so if you like lots of drumkit details like cymbals etc, you might find them lacking in that area. Sound stage wise they are on the small side and sound a bit cramped and don't offer much in the way of 3D presentation.

To the microphone on the Linkbuds S is also really good in almost any situation I have used them in including walking outside in the wind. They also have one of the best ambient implementations I have ever used. ANC is on par withe the WF-1000XM3 to my ears so near the top.

So what are their down sides?

The Linkbuds S really skimped on battery life so using any of their sound improvements such as DSEE or LDAC will net you less tan 4hrs battery per use. If you turn those setting off and just use AAC and do not use ANC constantly you can get around 6hrs of use before recharging.

I made a conscious decision to train myself and the AI in the Sony app for this headphone using ALL of it's adaptive sound functionality. I quickly set my home a location and set it to NOT use ANC, I repeatedly turned off ANC when I went for runs so it learned I did not want ANC in when running (to much wind interference with mics). Conversely I also ensured ANC was in when on trains and walking downtown. The cool thing is the headphone app learned my preferences and consequently I only occasionally have to set the mode to something other than what it thinks I will like.

One thing about ANC is this can be addictive in its own right and MANY ANC products only sound their BEST in ANC mode. The Linkbuds S broke me from my reliance on ANC and are designed to be used in ANC, Ambient, and off modes equally and automatically. If your interested in that sort of flexibility and willing to train yourself and the AI to manage it for you, the Linkbuds S offer a unique feature set no nother TWS I have tried can fully offer.

So why did I recommend the Galaxy Buds 2 Pro first (still)...

First and foremost it would be audio quality. They GB2P have bass that extends deep into the sub-bass region without making the mid-bass bloated so are not muddy or dark, even in comparison the Linkbuds S. The midrange is a bit more detailed and less lush sounding giving electric guitars a bit more crunch and bite and accoustic guitars more pluck. The treble for my 58 year ears is more hightened allowing me to hears drumkits with more clarity. But this is one area that some might HATE if sensitive to treble fatigue. Personally these do not cross the line for me but you might feel differently. Finally these have a nice open sounding sound stage with decent 3D presentation which I love. 

So much like the Jabra's ultimately getting dropped because I found them lacking in comparison to better products I found the LInkbuds S lacking in comparison to the GB2P.

BUT and it is a big BUT. I also own a Galaxy S20 phone that can utilize EVERY feature of the GB2P so I get LDAC like audio potential from them at all times automatically. This functionally does not exist for any other phone line other than the latest and greatest from Samsung. Other Android phones can use the Samsung app but that's about it. Speaking of the app, it has VERY limited functionality with only a few preset EQ's so you have to LOVE the default sound or one of those EQ's or rely on a 3rd party EQ solution if you don't. 

Battery life on the GB2P is about the same as the Linkbuds S at around 6 hours but I can get that 6hrs using ANC all the time. They have just about as good ambient mode as the Linkbuds S as well. Mic quality is a bit below the Linkbuds S but is close to as good in most situations.

So while the Samsung reach nervana like sound for me, they won't for everyone and they have drawbacks that have to be considered carefully.

My music preferences are pretty eclectic but focus on older rock music ranging from Fleetwood Mac to Led Zeppelin to Pink Floyd. I like accoustic music, Celtic, Classical including choral, and listen to a lot of Jazz these days, ranging from Patricia Barber to Mile Davis.


----------



## helmutcheese

SoundPeats Mini Pro HS review: Hi-Res Audio Wireless certified with LDAC codec​





*SoundPeats Mini Pro HS specs and features:*​
LDAC/AAC/SBC audio codec
Hi-Res audio wireless certification
10mm bio-diaphragm dynamic driver
6-8 hours playback of per charge (ANC ON/OFF)
40dB double-fed active noise cancellation
70ms game low latency



https://www.qucox.com/soundpeats-mini-pro-hs-review/


----------



## Caipirina

helmutcheese said:


> SoundPeats Mini Pro HS review: Hi-Res Audio Wireless certified with LDAC codec​
> 
> 
> *SoundPeats Mini Pro HS specs and features:*​
> ...


They are cramping LDAC now into everything …


----------



## Caipirina

TK33 said:


> Just updated Linkbuds.  Now have multipoint, which is great.  Update took a few minutes (maybe 5?) And seems to be working fine. Just got a call while I was testing and writing this.  Not sure if the firmware update is out for other models yet but figured I would let the group know.
> 
> EDIT: just tried testing with my Samsung Galaxy S22+ and Dell XPS laptop.  Linkbuds connect immediately to both devices (didnt even need to go into Bluetooth Settings on my Windows laptop, which was nice) and when a call came in while I was listening to something on my laptop, the audio switched right over to my phone and I could hear my ringtone on my Linkbuds.  Switching audio between the two devices while listening to Amazon Music on both required pausing on the first device in order to get audio from the other.  However, the audio did switch right away once paused on the first device. Glad to see multipoint becoming more prevalent in TWS (my main TWS rotation includes the Linkbuds and MTW3, both of which are spoiling me with multipoint now).


I am trying here and I am stumped / confused… there is this screen with the lady saying to download the ‘app’ (what app?) and when I click that link I get ‘not for you, nyaa nya nya’ . what gives?


----------



## chinmie

Caipirina said:


> They are cramping LDAC now into everything …


 and dropping APTX too. maybe the licensing is cheaper to use LDAC than APTX?


----------



## helmutcheese

TBH it is late in the day for LDAC and it is overrated with less battery life and less range, IMO aptX Adaptive will be thew way forward, both LDAC and aptX Adaptive talked about upgrades to 24/192k in the future.

If Sony made a LL version of LDAC that would help IMO.


----------



## dougms3

helmutcheese said:


> TBH it is late in the day for LDAC and it is overrated with less battery life and less range, IMO aptX Adaptive will be thew way forward, both LDAC and aptX Adaptive talked about upgrades to 24/192k in the future.
> 
> If Sony made a LL version of LDAC that would help IMO.


They have an adaptive bit rate option.


----------



## helmutcheese (Nov 20, 2022)

I know that as had many LDAC head/earphones, in Android there is even more settings, you can also choose 330/660/990 but for me it still stands what I said, and many reviewers say the same.

To listen at 330k will not sound much better than SBC and aptX for some sounds as good or better, IMO aptX HD sounds as good or better than even LDAC 990k (on same devices so fair Comparision).

You do realise how many do not even really know what LDAC is like the iPhone users who use "as everyone does", they will have CD Rips/MP3 320k at best playing at LDAC 990k thinking this is the best thing I have ever heard (red vs blue pill).

It still has high latency, the only real option I have seen on some earbuds I have had (2 pairs AFAIR) but not on many phones is LHDC which is a Low Latency Hi-Res Codec.


----------



## Peddler (Nov 20, 2022)

I'm still using the Samsung Galaxy Note 8 and still get excellent results with the highest LDAC settings (as long as my phone is nearby). I definitely get the best sound quality with this codec.

I must be one of the only people out there who actually likes the default sound profile on the Sony WH and WF headphones.


----------



## Picopala

First Post, so excuse my english. I wanted to give my non professional opinion and request advice (and trying to get focussed on the subject). I have read quite some of the latest pages of this thread (3258 pages... my gosh, this is too much to read).
I am a fan of Bose sound. I own a pair of Bose QC earbuds and I love(d) them. The sound is rich, and as I listen to EDM mostly, the punchy and rumbling sub-basses are just "over the top". Nevertheless, It does not have multipoint and, after more than 1 year use, I find them a bit bulky, slow to connect and for my ears lacking a bit of mids and highs after I have tried other earbuds. I have tested the Jabra 85T which is a great pair of multipoint earbuds. The sound is much more balanced than the QC on the mids and highs, but even EQing the earbuds, I am missing this massive full immersive rumbling of the sub basses of the QC earbuds. I was as well a bit disapppointed by the fact that the Jabra 85T earbuds are not staying in place while doing running sessions. I decided then to discard them. I did try the Airpods Pro (I can use both Iphone and Android device), and i really found the sound impressive (spatial, powerfull as the QC) but still missing this rumbling sub-basses of the QC earbuds. For people looking for clarity in sound with good basses, but not excessive i think Jabra 85T and Airpod Pro is a great choice, both on their price range.
Now, I then discovered the existence of the IEM's with multiple drivers and I am now requesting advice for a 350€/USD max budget. Must be Wireless.
- Are there TWS airbuds with multipoint conection that would have the same clarity of sound in Mids and HIghs than the Jabras or the Airpods but with the same sub-basses rumbling of the QC earbuds  ( ATH-TWX9 for example) (or definetely this is an impossible quest due to peculiar shape of the Bose sound ?) 
- Are IEMS (like OKKO 10H for example) a good alternative to get the type of sound I want, associated with a wireless adapter like FIIO UTWS5 for example ? I now that it will be impossible to use them for phone calls (does it exist some Wireless adapter with mic ?) - not sure about multipoint capability of those devices - but sound quality is for me more important than the ability to use the device for phone calls and therefore multipoint connectivity.


----------



## SynaestheticA

Got a very nice early delivery of the Victor Ha-FX150t. On a Sunday of all days.

First impressions on look is that the case is much smaller than images suggest, the buds are bigger than suggested. Not instantly impressed with the Spiral Dot tips, they didn't feel as secure as any of the other styles I used and sound quality seemed muffled. Not sure if these will be great for running which is a bummer as that's my special music time.

The SQ is pretty good, not blowing me away and not the best of what I have on first listen. Might have something to it though so gonna keep listening and see what happens. mids sit pretty far forward and overall sound is missing a softness to. This might work out for electronic music, will give it some more time. 

The lows are definitely present and thicccc.


----------



## amature101

What are some of the good tws iem with long battery life? (battery life of 6hrs with anc)


----------



## james444

SynaestheticA said:


> The lows are definitely present and thicccc.



Welcome to JVC / Victor.


----------



## C_Lindbergh

SynaestheticA said:


> Got a very nice early delivery of the Victor Ha-FX150t. On a Sunday of all days.
> 
> First impressions on look is that the case is much smaller than images suggest, the buds are bigger than suggested. Not instantly impressed with the Spiral Dot tips, they didn't feel as secure as any of the other styles I used and sound quality seemed muffled. Not sure if these will be great for running which is a bummer as that's my special music time.
> 
> ...



Lovely small case! 

Did you try the different preset? And I'm guessing you haven't got the app on your phone? I'm thinking there will be a day 1 update?


----------



## regancipher (Nov 20, 2022)

chinmie said:


> and dropping APTX too. maybe the licensing is cheaper to use LDAC than APTX?


Just another opportunity to sell more units. The WUQI chip they've used in these models is only capable of LDAC, whereas the QCC3040 can't offer LDAC - they would have to move to QCC3050 or 3056 to offer Snapdragon Sound, which they probably will in a future release as it means selling another box!

Just finished typing my review on the Air3 Deluxe HS, there's more in the YouTube if anyone is interested. 



Pretty good, very different sound to the Air3 but otherwise practically everything else is the same.


----------



## dweaver

Picopala said:


> - Are IEMS (like OKKO 10H for example) a good alternative to get the type of sound I want, associated with a wireless adapter like FIIO UTWS5 for example ? I now that it will be impossible to use them for phone calls (does it exist some Wireless adapter with mic ?) - not sure about multipoint capability of those devices - but sound quality is for me more important than the ability to use the device for phone calls and therefore multipoint connectivity.


UTWS5 has a mic so can be used for calls. It not a great mic but does work. I love my UTWS5 / FH5 combo. It allows a great IEM to be like a TWS.

Fiio has just released the FW5 which is a multi driver hybrid TWS. If your willing to try out something not reviewed yet.


----------



## jant71

dweaver said:


> UTWS5 has a mic so can be used for calls. It not a great mic but does work. I love my UTWS5 / FH5 combo. It allows a great IEM to be like a TWS.
> 
> Fiio has just released the FW5 which is a multi driver hybrid TWS. If your willing to try out something not reviewed yet.


There have been a couple of impressions. One by someone who has the EX and TWX9 and says the FiiO sounds the best of the three. I mean it has to sound good cause that is the only thing it really does except take calls. Doubt it will have top tier call quality and features like side tone so it really is pretty much all about the sound.


----------



## dweaver

Ya I just saw the post in the Fiio thread,  to bad he never gave actual impressions. I a very tempted to buy the FW5. Been jonesing for something new. Looked at a lot of fullsize BT headphones. But just to pricey to get into anything with better than average sound quality. Bit tempted on the Momentum 4 but even on sale they $379CAD so might just get these instead. I know I like Fiio so likely not to risky a purchase .


----------



## BooleanBones

Picopala said:


> - Are IEMS (like OKKO 10H for example) a good alternative to get the type of sound I want, associated with a wireless adapter like FIIO UTWS5 for example ? I now that it will be impossible to use them for phone calls (does it exist some Wireless adapter with mic ?) - not sure about multipoint capability of those devices - but sound quality is for me more important than the ability to use the device for phone calls and therefore multipoint connectivity.


The Shure TW2 adapters are fantastic for calls, transparency mode if your IEMs don't require a ton of power. The FIIOs are great for listening and have plenty of power. My personal preference (I have both) are the TW2s for the features and comfort. I also get a bit frustrated with FIIO's software in general, it can be a bit flaky at times.


----------



## erockg

BooleanBones said:


> The Shure TW2 adapters are fantastic for calls, transparency mode if your IEMs don't require a ton of power. The FIIOs are great for listening and have plenty of power. My personal preference (I have both) are the TW2s for the features and comfort. I also get a bit frustrated with FIIO's software in general, it can be a bit flaky at times.


100% agree here.  I picked my TW2s up after a hiatus and they're just plain awesome.  FiiO UT5s are great, but not as refined.


----------



## BooleanBones

Pretty good deals right now on Amazon US. Airpods Pro2 - 50$ off. Sony XM4s for 178$ to name a couple. I think I need to somehow pause my Amazon until January, this is killing me.


----------



## SynaestheticA (Nov 20, 2022)

C_Lindbergh said:


> Lovely small case!
> 
> Did you try the different preset? And I'm guessing you haven't got the app on your phone? I'm thinking there will be a day 1 update?


Forgot to mention presets. No app for me either, there is a qr code for instructions with a link to the app but then it doesn't let you download it.

I honestly don't hear much difference between the 3 professional presets. There is noticeably some differences between the flat/bass/clear ones though. Currently using preset 2 just cause but have more testing to do

Edit* @C_Lindbergh , I've changed back to the spiral dots as it only seemed fair and now get some decent differences between the presets. I originally tested on the flat and changed straight away. Should have given them a chance, if I can get a secure fit I'll probably keep using the spirals

I should keep my opinions to myself before I'm more sure but just got all excited


----------



## BooleanBones

clerkpalmer said:


> Any deals to be had on the EX anywhere? Tried the usual locations but nothing that compelling. $347 on Amazon. Some on eBay but from Japan. Maybe Black Friday?


Got an email that they will be a Black Friday event on their site, but it's still very secretive. I will post if I spot something.


----------



## ZMan2k2 (Nov 20, 2022)

Been reading this thread for a bit, info overload!!  I’m looking for a step-up from the XM4s using an iPhone.  Any suggestions?

I e been out of the IEM game for a few years, only surfacing to hear about the next TW earbuds.


----------



## BooleanBones

ZMan2k2 said:


> Been reading this thread for a bit, info overload!!  I’m looking for a step-up from the XM4s using an iPhone.  Any suggestions?
> 
> I e been out of the IEM game for a few years, only surfacing to hear about the next TW earbuds.


Looking for an all arounder? sound only? What are your needs with them?


----------



## ZMan2k2

Oooh boy, let’s see… 
1. All-rounder would be preferred.  I like bass, but not so much it muddies everything else.
2. I have been looking at the Shure Aonic 215, hopefully getting a good bit of Shure performance I had in my 535s years ago.
3. Needs, well, stable for walks and other activities.  NC would be nice, especially for travel.  Works well with the Apple ecosystem.  Functional app with EQ, and controls.  I’ve been spoiled with the app, not sure I can leave that now.


----------



## BooleanBones

ZMan2k2 said:


> Oooh boy, let’s see…
> 1. All-rounder would be preferred.  I like bass, but not so much it muddies everything else.
> 2. I have been looking at the Shure Aonic 215, hopefully getting a good bit of Shure performance I had in my 535s years ago.
> 3. Needs, well, stable for walks and other activities.  NC would be nice, especially for travel.  Works well with the Apple ecosystem.  Functional app with EQ, and controls.  I’ve been spoiled with the app, not sure I can leave that now.


I haven't bought any of the "just released" models, but here is my opinion (and I'm sure there will be more). I keep my XM4s for those all around travel moments, because they are rock solid in the ANC department. I have B&O EXs for sound when outside because they sound pretty nice and they have some semi functional features like ANC, EQ, hear through, and are waterproof. I say semi functional as they aren't as strong as my APPs or XM4s in the ANC/transparency modes. Pure sound with EQ that has any amount of bass you need would be the Fokus Pros in my lot I have. The passive isolation is good, so don't really need the ANC IMO, but definitely not a phone call headset. They are also very comfortable for me. I am not sure you will gain much with the 215s really, maybe more of a lateral move. Although you can get them with the TW2 bundle at a really good price. It would give you the TW2 adapter for other IEM purchases down the road. So many choices


----------



## ZMan2k2

BooleanBones said:


> I haven't bought any of the "just released" models, but here is my opinion (and I'm sure there will be more). I keep my XM4s for those all around travel moments, because they are rock solid in the ANC department. I have B&O EXs for sound when outside because they sound pretty nice and they have some semi functional features like ANC, EQ, hear through, and are waterproof. I say semi functional as they aren't as strong as my APPs or XM4s in the ANC/transparency modes. Pure sound with EQ that has any amount of bass you need would be the Fokus Pros in my lot I have. The passive isolation is good, so don't really need the ANC IMO, but definitely not a phone call headset. They are also very comfortable for me. I am not sure you will gain much with the 215s really, maybe more of a lateral move. Although you can get them with the TW2 bundle at a really good price. It would give you the TW2 adapter for other IEM purchases down the road. So many choices


A very thoughtful and thorough answer, thank you.  It sounds as though there is no “unicorn” “must-have” TWS set right now.  More of a pick-and-choose model.  I guess that’s what has me stuck, I’m looking for a Swiss Army knife in a butter knife market.  I may have to reevaluate my search, to narrow things down.

Much appreciated.


----------



## BooleanBones

ZMan2k2 said:


> A very thoughtful and thorough answer, thank you.  It sounds as though there is no “unicorn” “must-have” TWS set right now.  More of a pick-and-choose model.  I guess that’s what has me stuck, I’m looking for a Swiss Army knife in a butter knife market.  I may have to reevaluate my search, to narrow things down.
> 
> Much appreciated.


As many TWS as I have bought in the last couple years, I now ask myself the question... "will this give me 150-300$ better performance over what I have". If I answer that maybe or probably not, I step away from the computer  The 215 combo is a worthy try for what you describe although it does not have ANC and is tuned a bit different than the 535s, but they are very comfortable and like I said, gives you the adapter if you decide to explore other IEM avenues. @Tommy C has the 215s and I thinks he loves them. Good luck and keep us posted.


----------



## chinmie

If sound quality is the only factor to prioritise, even my KZ EDA balanced+ AZ09 Pro has better sound than all of my full TWSs..and that is still below 50 usd total?

But for my daily usual usage, i would still use full TWS more (currently both the Soundpeats Air 3 and Soundcore Dot 3i the most),of course with slight compromise on SQ


----------



## erockg (Nov 21, 2022)

ZMan2k2 said:


> A very thoughtful and thorough answer, thank you.  It sounds as though there is no “unicorn” “must-have” TWS set right now.  More of a pick-and-choose model.  I guess that’s what has me stuck, I’m looking for a Swiss Army knife in a butter knife market.  I may have to reevaluate my search, to narrow things down.
> 
> Much appreciated.





BooleanBones said:


> As many TWS as I have bought in the last couple years, I now ask myself the question... "will this give me 150-300$ better performance over what I have". If I answer that maybe or probably not, I step away from the computer  The 215 combo is a worthy try for what you describe although it does not have ANC and is tuned a bit different than the 535s, but they are very comfortable and like I said, gives you the adapter if you decide to explore other IEM avenues. @Tommy C has the 215s and I thinks he loves them. Good luck and keep us posted.


I have the TW2s with the SE 215 and SE846 and they are wonderful.  846 definitely better.  That said, I revisited the 215s this weekend and they definitely do okay.  I chose the Aonic 3 setting within the app to get more power into them.  Helps.

If you're in the Apple ecosystem like me, I have to admit, the AirPods Pro 2 are much better than the first gen.  I'm really loving them.  Easy to carry, great device switching, ANC is very good.  I think they're $199 too on Amazon right now.  Not sure if that sale is over.  I also dig the Bose QCII.  The have nice punch, ANC is stellar and they are so much smaller than the first gen.  I'd say the two TWS I have right now that haven't gone through the revolving door are the B&O EX and the Devialet Gemini.  Soundstages are great, all the above what Boo said for the EX.  ANC is waaaaay better on the Gemini.  Based on what you've said, go with the APP2 and/or the Shure TW2 setup.  Can't go wrong really.  Tons of versatility too.  Again though, like I keep saying, we're all chasing a dream here


----------



## Tommy C

BooleanBones said:


> As many TWS as I have bought in the last couple years, I now ask myself the question... "will this give me 150-300$ better performance over what I have". If I answer that maybe or probably not, I step away from the computer  The 215 combo is a worthy try for what you describe although it does not have ANC and is tuned a bit different than the 535s, but they are very comfortable and like I said, gives you the adapter if you decide to explore other IEM avenues. @Tommy C has the 215s and I thinks he loves them. Good luck and keep us posted.


I indeed have the TW2 with the SE215 Special Edition. Like @erockg said. They do pretty good but with better IEMs they shine. They are very user friendly and everything works as it should. No ANC though but not needed for me as the seal is excellent.


----------



## project86

I'm totally out of the loop on TWS stuff, and asking for a little guidance as to the current state of things. I had a bunch of them in for potential review project a few years back, but many of them were awful and thus nothing ever materialized. I stopped paying attention or trying anything new beyond that, but now I'm curious again.

As a point of reference, I've still got the original Sennheiser Momentum which works fine, but battery is getting pretty bad (and was never great to begin with). Also have the Creative Outlier Gold which is somewhat decent, and the RHA TrueConnect 2 which is quite nice in many ways but the sound is blah - I can't believe they skipped AptX considering their price. 

What are some good options at different price ranges? Using a Pixel 6 so some form of AptX or LDAC is important. Range doesn't really matter but reliable connectivity is key. Don't care about ANC or phone calls at all really, just music. 

Also how about something to convert my existing CIEMs into TWS? I recall some of these just launching back in the day but they were underwhelming at that time. Are there good ones now? All my CIEMs are the classic 2-pin style.


----------



## nekonhime

https://majorhifi.com/moondrop-alice-review/
Moondrop alice review


----------



## Toom

What are the top 5 best sounding TWS for an Android (Samsung) user currently?


----------



## nekonhime

Toom said:


> What are the top 5 best sounding TWS for an Android (Samsung) user currently?


Ex, gemini, 1000t, twx9, and the new bose? 
Also the fokus pro


----------



## DigDub

Toom said:


> What are the top 5 best sounding TWS for an Android (Samsung) user currently?


Oppos enco x2. Buds2 pro if you want to make use of the Samsung seamless codec.


----------



## C_Lindbergh (Nov 21, 2022)

JVC Victor app  And as expected there was an firmware update. App is also in English 

https://cheapknittingpatterns.heroinewarrior.com/download-app/com.jvckenwood.victorheadphones

First impression are mostly positive, both the case and earbuds are tiny. The sound seems very impressive as well .

The touch controllers worked fine, the sound is very clear and detailed, but not boring. For the size of the earbuds it's pretty darn good imo.

I can't tell much difference between the different sound modes (except Bass), currently using "clear".

Most importantly they pass the side pillow test! 

Only downside that i can think of is the quick attention mode, the sound isn't lowered nearly enough imo.

Also wish you'd could customize the cobtrollers ofc.


----------



## C_Lindbergh

Case is very tiny indeed! Yet the battery life is quite decent according to the spec sheet (around 7,5h with anc + total 17).


----------



## clerkpalmer

Just got my B&O black Friday email - with a whopping 4 products on sale.  Guess no EX sale coming although they were $347 on Amazon last week.  All the power to them if they can keep commanding full price in this economy while everyone else discounts.


----------



## erockg

clerkpalmer said:


> Just got my B&O black Friday email - with a whopping 4 products on sale.  Guess no EX sale coming although they were $347 on Amazon last week.  All the power to them if they can keep commanding full price in this economy while everyone else discounts.


Yeah, no surprise there.  Better deals on Amazon even today:  https://www.amazon.com/Bang-Olufsen...=1669047266&sprefix=beoplay+ex,aps,125&sr=8-3


----------



## clerkpalmer

erockg said:


> Yeah, no surprise there.  Better deals on Amazon even today:  https://www.amazon.com/Bang-Olufsen-Beoplay-Microphone-Cancelling/dp/B09VLHMD7H/ref=sr_1_3?crid=2MN6RG5Q4AFVX&keywords=beoplay+ex&qid=1669047266&sprefix=beoplay+ex,aps,125&sr=8-3


Yeah. I wonder if the warranty transfers? 275 on eBay or 340 on Amazon n


----------



## BooleanBones

clerkpalmer said:


> Yeah. I wonder if the warranty transfers? 275 on eBay or 340 on Amazon n


Not sure about eBay, but when you register them new in the app, you will get your warranty extended to 3 years.


----------



## Picopala

BooleanBones said:


> The Shure TW2 adapters are fantastic for calls, transparency mode if your IEMs don't require a ton of power. The FIIOs are great for listening and have plenty of power. My personal preference (I have both) are the TW2s for the features and comfort. I also get a bit frustrated with FIIO's software in general, it can be a bit flaky at times.


ONe question : TWS2 has only got MMCX connection and  OH10 has got 2 pin. They are not acompatible aren't they. What would be the closest sound like to OH10  (rumbling sub bass and V shape) iem compatible with TWS2 ?


----------



## BooleanBones

Picopala said:


> ONe question : TWS2 has only got MMCX connection and  OH10 has got 2 pin. They are not acompatible aren't they. What would be the closest sound like to OH10  (rumbling sub bass and V shape) iem compatible with TWS2 ?


Yes, MMCX. You might be able to find an adapter to 2-pin, but probably better just to find a 2-pin adapter. I don't have any 2-pin IEMs, so can't give much input there.


----------



## nekonhime

C_Lindbergh said:


> JVC Victor app  And as expected there was an firmware update. App is also in English
> 
> https://cheapknittingpatterns.heroinewarrior.com/download-app/com.jvckenwood.victorheadphones
> 
> ...


Does they support the 1000t?


----------



## C_Lindbergh

nekonhime said:


> Does they support the 1000t?


No idea, don't own those tws.


----------



## erockg

clerkpalmer said:


> Yeah. I wonder if the warranty transfers? 275 on eBay or 340 on Amazon n


Probably not unless it's an Authorized Seller


----------



## erockg

BooleanBones said:


> Yes, MMCX. You might be able to find an adapter to 2-pin, but probably better just to find a 2-pin adapter. I don't have any 2-pin IEMs, so can't give much input there.





Picopala said:


> ONe question : TWS2 has only got MMCX connection and  OH10 has got 2 pin. They are not acompatible aren't they. What would be the closest sound like to OH10  (rumbling sub bass and V shape) iem compatible with TWS2 ?


I have this one and it works great.  It's mini and slightly smaller than the standard adapters.  https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0BLN4YLRP/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1


----------



## AmericanSpirit (Nov 21, 2022)

Picopala said:


> First Post, so excuse my english. I wanted to give my non professional opinion and request advice (and trying to get focussed on the subject). I have read quite some of the latest pages of this thread (3258 pages... my gosh, this is too much to read).
> I am a fan of Bose sound. I own a pair of Bose QC earbuds and I love(d) them. The sound is rich, and as I listen to EDM mostly, the punchy and rumbling sub-basses are just "over the top". Nevertheless, It does not have multipoint and, after more than 1 year use, I find them a bit bulky, slow to connect and for my ears lacking a bit of mids and highs after I have tried other earbuds. I have tested the Jabra 85T which is a great pair of multipoint earbuds. The sound is much more balanced than the QC on the mids and highs, but even EQing the earbuds, I am missing this massive full immersive rumbling of the sub basses of the QC earbuds. I was as well a bit disapppointed by the fact that the Jabra 85T earbuds are not staying in place while doing running sessions. I decided then to discard them. I did try the Airpods Pro (I can use both Iphone and Android device), and i really found the sound impressive (spatial, powerfull as the QC) but still missing this rumbling sub-basses of the QC earbuds. For people looking for clarity in sound with good basses, but not excessive i think Jabra 85T and Airpod Pro is a great choice, both on their price range.
> Now, I then discovered the existence of the IEM's with multiple drivers and I am now requesting advice for a 350€/USD max budget. Must be Wireless.
> - Are there TWS airbuds with multipoint conection that would have the same clarity of sound in Mids and HIghs than the Jabras or the Airpods but with the same sub-basses rumbling of the QC earbuds  ( ATH-TWX9 for example) (or definetely this is an impossible quest due to peculiar shape of the Bose sound ?)
> - Are IEMS (like OKKO 10H for example) a good alternative to get the type of sound I want, associated with a wireless adapter like FIIO UTWS5 for example ? I now that it will be impossible to use them for phone calls (does it exist some Wireless adapter with mic ?) - not sure about multipoint capability of those devices - but sound quality is for me more important than the ability to use the device for phone calls and therefore multipoint connectivity.


Welcome.
To my knowledge, IEM with bluetooth hook like the one of FiiO’s UTWS will bring you best sound quality if you use audio player that support high bitrate wireless transmission such as AptX HD/adaptive, LDAC and of course you use a good bitrate songs, or have lossless streaming service subscribed.  For that case my best put is Truthear HEXA ($79USD) + FiiO UTWS5 ($130USD).  UTWS5 let you choose MMCX pin or 2 pin for it’s adapter, of which 95% of IEMs use 2pin, while very few uses MMCX(FiiO, AKG’s N5005 etc) . HEXA has better bass-range driver than Airpods pro /Jabra to my understanding. Also both Airpods Pro and Jabra are single dynamic driver equipped, which is not a perfect set for fast and electronically mixed music like EDM, for which you need BA+DD type hybrid, HEXA shall handle both synthesizers and rumbling bass pretty much all you wanted. It’s also quasi-custom IEM mold like shape, so it inserts deeply into your ear canal, won’t fall off when running.

If you mainly listened to EDM, like Zedd, David Guetta thru apple music, or spotify, with iPhone, you probably wouldn’t need LDAC class means of transmission, of which I also feel competent enough when using general AAC connection with AKG’s N400 (you can retune the bass floor to head knocking EDM-lover satisfying level without any distortion, for this case AZLA’s xelastec ear tips is recommended), sometime it will go sale around $50, which is a great deal, and I have no problem at all for enjoying EDM tracks. My last EDM live was DJ Tiesto’s 2020 World Tour at Toronto, and I still remember the excitement at Rebel Toronto, which is 45,000 square feet wide huge huge box. N400 brings immersive bass-rumbles that I felt by my whole body at Rebel Toronto, one of the best equipped night club in North American continent.

And lastly the sub-bass resonance, is highly-highly dependent on type of ear tips you use.  My top pick for sub-bass is AZLA Xelastec series, and Softears UC for dynamic bass driver, and  SpinFit CP360 for Balanced Armature Bass drivers.

Or If you have high-bit rate transmiting audio players and definitely want TWS form IEM, I guess other experts on this thread would know your options👍


----------



## C_Lindbergh (Nov 21, 2022)

The bass on the HA-FX150T is absolutely lovely, its very clear and impactful, but it doesn't seem to overtake the other frequencies too much either. But they're really supremely comfortable and feel very secure in your ear.

But I'm pretty disappointed with the ambient mode, it doesn't really let your own voice in and the volume isn't lowered enough, touch controls works great tho.

I wish I had bought them in the brown color scheme like @SynaestheticA, they stick out more but in the right way. 

My search for the perfect TWS will continue into 2023  If there was a perfect TWS-adapter I'd prob go for Xelento 2s, but Fiio is Fiio and there doesn't seem to be much options besides Shure.

I'll be very interested in whatever B&O comes up with after the EX, I'd be willing to pay that premium price for a TWS with the latest Qualcomm SoC. Also curious to what Technics got for us in 2023 given since they didn't launch any succesor to the AZ60 this year.


----------



## jant71 (Nov 21, 2022)

C_Lindbergh said:


> The bass on the HA-FX150T is absolutely lovely, its very clear and impactful, but it doesn't seem to overtake the other frequencies too much either. But they're really supremely comfortable and feel very secure in your ear.
> 
> But I'm pretty disappointed with the ambient mode, it doesn't really let your own voice in and the volume isn't lowered enough, touch controls works great tho.
> 
> ...



The ambient and the ANC don't seem to be really well done. Certainly fine that I skipped this one. Wasn't gonna beat the Kenwood outside of size. I went a different direction for a small can use under hats type thing that has buttons and my favorite control scheme.


----------



## nekonhime

jant71 said:


> The ambint and the ANC don't seem to be really well done. Certainly fine that I skipped this one. Wasn't gonna beat the Kenwood outside of size. I went a different direction for a small can use under hats type thing that has buttons and my favorite control scheme.


Yep, I actually prefer the wsa1 over the 1000t, n400 and eq


----------



## Luke Skywalker

mottykytu said:


> Why people here talk too much about beoplay EX and TWX9 but not the Noble Fokus Pro for best TWR ???


Late reply… I love the FoKus Pro so much that I bought Kublai Khans.


----------



## Luke Skywalker

clerkpalmer said:


> Off topic but I don't care - I've been here since the beginning so I'm taking some license...
> 
> The Bathys are awesome.  I've tried a lot of higher end bluetooth headphones (I stay away from the consumer oriented models).  Currently have the Deva Pro.  Formerly the Ananda BT, Mobius and Panda (all of which I loved).  Just sold my APM.  These Bathys really straddle the line between audiophile sound with a bit of boosted bass for fun.  I've owned Focals before and some people think they are boring but I've always appreciated their sound signature.  They have terrific soundstage and depth that frankly has no business in a bluetooth headphone particularly over AAC on an iphone.  Everything is crisp, tight with a nice sense of space.  Gonna try the USB-C tomorrow.  These should be on everyone's short list.  The fact they have ANC is a bonus.  Was gonna sell them since I don't really need them but now I'm not so sure.


Totally agree my friend! They’re my first and only pair of Bluetooth headphones and it sounds like I can cross the others you mention off my list.


----------



## jant71

nekonhime said:


> Yep, I actually prefer the wsa1 over the 1000t, n400 and eq


Go team Kenwood! At least 2 members strong!👍


----------



## nekonhime

jant71 said:


> Go team Kenwood! At least 2 members strong!👍


Beryllium driver, 8 hours running time, good anc (quite the same with the xm3), nice mics, nice soundstage with good instruments separation. The only downside is the size, but I can sleep with it so it is ok.


----------



## erockg

jant71 said:


> Go team Kenwood! At least 2 members strong!👍





nekonhime said:


> Beryllium driver, 8 hours running time, good anc (quite the same with the xm3), nice mics, nice soundstage with good instruments separation. The only downside is the size, but I can sleep with it so it is ok.


Yer killin' me fellas.


----------



## nekonhime

erockg said:


> Yer killin' me fellas.


For 70$ it is a steal. I am considering to buy another one


----------



## erockg

nekonhime said:


> For 70$ it is a steal. I am considering to buy another one


Size is the only think keeping me away, that and the fact I just bought some Thieaudio Oracle MK2s for my Shure TW2 adapters!


----------



## nekonhime

erockg said:


> Size is the only think keeping me away, that and the fact I just bought some Thieaudio Oracle MK2s for my Shure TW2 adapters!


Just a little bit more before Christmas to end this year lol


----------



## SynaestheticA (Nov 22, 2022)

C_Lindbergh said:


> I wish I had bought them in the brown color scheme like @SynaestheticA, they stick out more but in the right way.



Amazing! I've been wishing I got the black

What tips are you using for sleeping? I'm on ms but thinking of going down to a S for deeper fit, feeling like they still stick out a bit


----------



## FiiO Willson

jant71 said:


> Just came out so nobody would have them yet outside of reviewers which you probably can't even trust. They are not for those who want anything other than sound though. If you want ambient or ANC or multipoint or an app etc. you need to look elsewhere. Figure by the end of 2022 they would at least have a way to hear through and interact with your surroundings.
> 
> I would imagine they sound good. I doubt they will be up there with Jabra or Apple or Sony for call quality so they promise one thing. Figure they have to do it well. If they don't sound good then what is the point.


They have been selling in China for several weeks, and users have reacted very well and will soon start selling all over the world


----------



## jant71

erockg said:


> Size is the only think keeping me away, that and the fact I just bought some Thieaudio Oracle MK2s for my Shure TW2 adapters!


Plus you are saving $$ for the ZE8000 next month right? They have 8K technology.


----------



## webvan

Tried another run with the Bose QCII and it was a complete disaster ! Not so much the amplified wind noise (it's there but not as distracting as when riding a bike) but some kind of "slapping" noise that seems to come from the ANC. Since you can't switch ANC (or hear-through) off it can't be confirmed but I can't see what else it could be.

I still can't believe Bose haven't bothered to add the most basic of settings that everyone else offers (including them on their wired earbuds and cans) on the QC series. Even though they offer excellent ANC in static use there's no way I'm keeping these $299 earbuds with that HUGE and frankly ridiculous flaw.

Back to the Bomaker SiFI II that have the classic "runner's thud" and will be trying the Vista 2 and Jabra Elite 7 shortly. I've read on YT comments that the Vista 2 have zero "thud"...I'll believe it when I hear it


----------



## TK33 (Nov 22, 2022)

dweaver said:


> I have not heard the Jabra 85T so can not speak about that specific model. But I have owned the Elite 3 and Elite 7 Pro and I sold the Elite 3 and returned the Elite 7 Pro. I was not a huge fan of the buttons system because they hurt my ears. I don't mind buttons but only if they don't push into my ears. Sonically speaking both sets sounded almost exactly the same. The sound on those models was nicely balanced with slightly to polite bass (I believe the 85T has more bass) that made most music sound good. My issue was they were like a good low res TV. They sounded good until you compared them beside a good TWS that had higher detail and resolution. I unfortunately have bought to many products as part of my passion for headphone audio as a hobby so once I could tell the difference I found it just to hard to ignore.
> 
> The other reasons I went away from the Jabra's was because I was not super enamored with their Microphone quality. The Elite 7 Pro surprised me in that I was not super happy with this area as that supposed to their biggest strength. I also like good ambient mode which I found to subdued for my liking. Similarly ANC was on only just OK.
> 
> ...


You convinced me.  Just put my order in for the Galaxy Buds2 Pro.  Couldn't resist the trade in offers and it has been a few months since I bought a new TWS.  With all the Samsung offers + eBates and PayPal cash back, it was hard to resist the itch to try these out,  Trading in one of my old sets of Galaxy Buds Live, which haven't been getting much use lately since I got the Sony Linkbuds for calls so seemed like a no brainer.  I also have a Samsung S22+ and Tab S7 FE so I am invested in the Samsung ecosystem.  Hopefully these stay in my ears better than my Galaxy Buds2.

What tips are people using for the Galaxy Buds2 Pro?


----------



## erockg

jant71 said:


> Plus you are saving $$ for the ZE8000 next month right? They have 8K technology.


Sometimes 8K video is too crisp and fake looking.  How will I even HEAR 8K audio?  Will all my favorite bands sound odd?  HAHA!


----------



## erockg

TK33 said:


> You convinced me.  Just put my order in for the Galaxy Buds2 Pro.  Couldn't resist the trade in offers and it has been a few months since I bought a new TWS.  With all the Samsung offers + eBates and PayPal cash back, it was hard to resist the itch to try these out,  Trading in one of my old sets of Galaxy Buds Live, which haven't been getting much use lately since I got the Sony Linkbuds for calls so seemed like a no brainer.  I also have a Samsung S22+ and Tab S7 FE so I am invested in the Samsung ecosystem.  Hopefully these stay in my ears better than my Galaxy Buds2.
> 
> What tips are people using for the Galaxy Buds2 Pro?


Oddly enough, I was using the large stock tips.  Tried a dozen others and went back to the stock


----------



## clerkpalmer

erockg said:


> Sometimes 8K video is too crisp and fake looking.  How will I even HEAR 8K audio?  Will all my favorite bands sound odd?  HAHA!


We hunt specs here dude.  It doesn't matter if you can actually hear it.


----------



## clerkpalmer

webvan said:


> Tried another run with the Bose QCII and it was a complete disaster ! Not so much the amplified wind noise (it's there but not as distracting as when riding a bike) but some kind of "slapping" noise that seems to come from the ANC. Since you can't switch ANC (or hear-through) off it can't be confirmed but I can't see what else it could be.
> 
> I still can't believe Bose haven't bothered to add the most basic of settings that everyone else offers (including them on their wired earbuds and cans) on the QC series. Even though they offer excellent ANC in static use there's no way I'm keeping these $299 earbuds with that HUGE and frankly ridiculous flaw.
> 
> Back to the Bomaker SiFI II that have the classic "runner's thud" and will be trying the Vista 2 and Jabra Elite 7 shortly. I've read on YT comments that the Vista 2 have zero "thud"...I'll believe it when I hear it


I've noticed some inconsistent behavior with the adaptive ANC as well.  I was using mine while walking on a treadmill with a fan so fairly static positioning and the ANC would sort of ebb and flow I believe it was tied to the fan noise but the fan does not move.  I agree an ANC off would be welcome and seems hard to figure why it isn't there unless there is something about the chipset build that makes it difficult.


----------



## nekonhime

clerkpalmer said:


> We hunt specs here dude.  It doesn't matter if you can actually hear it.


But wth is 8k sound? Sound from the 3D or 6D or just another gimmick of spacial sound?


----------



## clerkpalmer

nekonhime said:


> But wth is 8k sound? Sound from the 3D or 6D or just another gimmick of spacial sound?


I don't know but it's better than 7999K sound and that's all I care about.


----------



## clerkpalmer

nekonhime said:


> But wth is 8k sound? Sound from the 3D or 6D or just another gimmick of spacial sound?


https://www.headphonesty.com/2022/06/show-report-high-end-munich-2022/


----------



## nekonhime

clerkpalmer said:


> I don't know but it's better than 7999K sound and that's all I care about.


Welp, I hope it not gonna be another gimmick for money sake


clerkpalmer said:


> https://www.headphonesty.com/2022/06/show-report-high-end-munich-2022/


The ZE8000 will be released next month so the reviews will come soon I guess
https://final-inc.com/products/ze8000-jp


----------



## jant71 (Nov 22, 2022)

clerkpalmer said:


> We hunt specs here dude.  It doesn't matter if you can actually hear it.


We have a picture. Apparently 8K sound looks something like this:




Sort of like a wormhole 


I've yet to test them out but I got these in record time. DHL usually comes a day early than the expected day but these were due by 11/25. For under the winter hat and has buttons on top. Best control scheme for my liking with one press R for play/pause and one press L cycles ANC/Ambient/Off and volume up is on the R side(L is down) and two presses while hold R/L is FF and RW. The 3 press features are the ones not used as often, bass boost on/off R and LL mode on the L.



Vs. a US quarter dollar...



Vs. the Kenwood and the smallest JVC HA-A5T...






Canal Works designed housing and uses normal size tips in the tiny case...


----------



## C_Lindbergh

nekonhime said:


> Welp, I hope it not gonna be another gimmick for money sake
> 
> The ZE8000 will be released next month so the reviews will come soon I guess
> https://final-inc.com/products/ze8000-jp



Woh, the design is very strange! Even tho I'm sure they will sound very good, but they don't look comfortable at all


----------



## SynaestheticA

webvan said:


> Since you can't switch ANC (or hear-through) off it can't be confirmed but I can't see what else it could be.


You can't disable ANC on the Bose? I thought ANC on my default was a step to presumptuous, this is another level


----------



## erockg

clerkpalmer said:


> We hunt specs here dude.  It doesn't matter if you can actually hear it.


As long at it's the best, right right.  Silly me!


----------



## erockg

Had to feed my addiction and picked up the Shure SE846 Gen 2 for my TW2 adapters.  I might be the minority, but I'm truly enjoying the new filter option with a little EQ for bass punch.

This sounds AMAZING:


----------



## clerkpalmer

nekonhime said:


> Welp, I hope it not gonna be another gimmick for money sake
> 
> The ZE8000 will be released next month so the reviews will come soon I guess
> https://final-inc.com/products/ze8000-jp


They look pretty cool tbh.


----------



## Mouseman

clerkpalmer said:


> I don't know but it's better than 7999K sound and that's all I care about.


I'm not buying anything until they support 10,000K sound. I've got to stick to some standards.


----------



## nekonhime

clerkpalmer said:


> They look pretty cool tbh.


I agree with that but they might be uncomfortable for my ears though


----------



## erockg

Mouseman said:


> I'm not buying anything until they support 10,000K sound. I've got to stick to some standards.


----------



## takeshi74 (Nov 22, 2022)

TK33 said:


> What tips are people using for the Galaxy Buds2 Pro?



I like the AZLA SednaEarfit MAX Standard with them.


----------



## dweaver

TK33 said:


> You convinced me.  Just put my order in for the Galaxy Buds2 Pro.  Couldn't resist the trade in offers and it has been a few months since I bought a new TWS.  With all the Samsung offers + eBates and PayPal cash back, it was hard to resist the itch to try these out,  Trading in one of my old sets of Galaxy Buds Live, which haven't been getting much use lately since I got the Sony Linkbuds for calls so seemed like a no brainer.  I also have a Samsung S22+ and Tab S7 FE so I am invested in the Samsung ecosystem.  Hopefully these stay in my ears better than my Galaxy Buds2.
> 
> What tips are people using for the Galaxy Buds2 Pro?


I actually am using the large Samsung tips on my pair. I have some 360CP that also fit good. Tips are a bit tricky though as the stem is short and has a lip on it so lots of my other tips don't fit. Sony hybrids sort of fit but come off to easy so not recommended.

The good news is the Samsung tips with this model actually fit better than the GBP model which sucked.


----------



## jasonb

So… the new APPGen2 are sooooo much better than the 1st. 

They have actual sub-bass, and actually have some resolution and detail. I always felt that the 1st gen really lacked any semblance of resolution and detail. They lacked clarity overall big time to my ears. The new one’s actually have pretty decent clarity.


----------



## TK33 (Nov 22, 2022)

erockg said:


> Oddly enough, I was using the large stock tips.  Tried a dozen others and went back to the stock





takeshi74 said:


> I like the AZLA SednaEarfit MAX Standard with them.





dweaver said:


> I actually am using the large Samsung tips on my pair. I have some 360CP that also fit good. Tips are a bit tricky though as the stem is short and has a lip on it so lots of my other tips don't fit. Sony hybrids sort of fit but come off to easy so not recommended.
> 
> The good news is the Samsung tips with this model actually fit better than the GBP model which sucked.


Thanks. Guess I am putting the cart before the horse.  Will try the stock first before digging into my box of spare tips or burning more money on unused tips.  I actually stuck with the stock tips on the MTW3 as well (my last TWS purchase)...stock tips seem to be getting better. Always a bit worried about the limited room in the case with these Samsung models.


----------



## Blueshound24 (Nov 23, 2022)

I got this email. Something new is coming, I hope!​​Black Friday is Coming!​

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Sorry about the large format. I don't know how to shrink it...


----------



## Nito8

Good morning, regarding the sound quality, which is the best among these:
galaxy buds 2 pro, technics az60, Sennheiser MTW3? Or others with prices up to 200 euros.... Thank you 😉


----------



## newworld666

Nito8 said:


> Good morning, regarding the sound quality, which is the best among these:
> galaxy buds 2 pro, technics az60, Sennheiser MTW3? Or others with prices up to 200 euros.... Thank you 😉



Galaxy Buds2 pro, as they don't have any LDAC codec, should be reserved for users with new Samsung smartphones able to handle SSC (24 bits 48khz) to get a rather good Hires music, otherwise, those will be limited to AAC which is not bad but clearly missing some details compared to SSC codec, LDAC or apxt adaptative.


----------



## scubaphish

Blueshound24 said:


> I got this email. Something new is coming, I hope!​​Black Friday is Coming!​
> 
> ​
> ​
> ...


I noticed the Fokus Pro are sold out. I also received an email from Noble back in august about microphone placement 

“We do have a new version of the FoKus in the works that will have improved call quality with the microphone located on the faceplate, but it will not be ready for retail sale until October or November.”

Wonder if that’s ready to go


----------



## dweaver

Nito8 said:


> Good morning, regarding the sound quality, which is the best among these:
> galaxy buds 2 pro, technics az60, Sennheiser MTW3? Or others with prices up to 200 euros.... Thank you 😉


I prefer the GB2P over the AZ60. I am a Samsung phone user though so get the Samsung codec support. But I think even using AAC I would still prefer to signature more. But the AZ60 does sound good if you prefer a warmer signature with more mid-bass presence and it has a custom EQ which is missing in the Galaxy app.


----------



## ZMan2k2

Always in search of the next “fix”, I’d like some opinions please.  Noble FoKus H-ANC.  From some online reviews, these are amazing, like next level amazing.  They rank just below the FoKus PROs for sound.  My question, that has not been answered, is regarding the app.  What’s the functionality like?  I’m a tweaker, always trying, for better or worse, to squeeze a little more out of something.  I’ve read great app, glitchy app and everything in between.


----------



## erockg

ZMan2k2 said:


> Always in search of the next “fix”, I’d like some opinions please.  Noble FoKus H-ANC.  From some online reviews, these are amazing, like next level amazing.  They rank just below the FoKus PROs for sound.  My question, that has not been answered, is regarding the app.  What’s the functionality like?  I’m a tweaker, always trying, for better or worse, to squeeze a little more out of something.  I’ve read great app, glitchy app and everything in between.


The app is great, not perfect.  Both Fokus buds use the app.  EQ options, hearing sound test also for custom EQ.  I do not think the FHANC is next level.  They are great, but the Fokus Pro is still quite a bit better.  I prefer the B&O EX and even the Devialet Gemini over the FHANC.  The latter doesn't have very good controls for changing ANC and Transparency, unless they had a firmware update to fix that.  That said, I don't think I've ever seen a firmware update on a pair of the Noble buds I've ever owned.  Also, the ANC and Trans on the FHANC isn't very good.  The _fit_ is phenomenal.   I sold off my pair.  Too many better options in my collection.


----------



## ZMan2k2

Much appreciated @erockg


----------



## doogle111 (Nov 23, 2022)

Galaxy buds pro 2 is $125 on amazon for anyone in the US.  Just saw it this morning.  Bought a pair 

What would be some good alternatives that are better than these?  Call quality is also a necessity for me.  Flexible budget


----------



## Toom

Melomania 1+ for £49.95 right now. Worth it? 

Soundwise, how do they stack up against the MTW3?


----------



## jant71 (Nov 23, 2022)

Glidic TW-5200. Pretty impressed so far. Well done design. Canal Works knows their business so the housing shape is great and fit well and can give good isolation and are sleepable. Small details like...



This case size and they take Sedna Earfits(not the short ones) just fine.



driver nicely vented front and behind it. Front vent with a channel so it won't be blocked even if something goes against the housing. Like Yamaha was doing something similar just not as good as here. Notice the front of the bore is a thick ring...



...just not on both sides. No pressure issues and the drivers breathe just fine and the bass is tight and moves some air for some feel and the sound is quite balanced. Mic hole there on the bottom and one on top. Tested out basketball bouncing doesn't sound off like an echo say with some JVC and Jabra. Ambient is really clean so I am happy. Just doesn't pull in my voice to hear it more from outside than inside so you hear the ear plugged thing for your own voice but otherwise very natural so not unhappy even vs. the Kenwood which has the best ambient. A small amount of hiss on ambient when in a quiet area but not really noticeable when outside at the park or at the store shopping.



LED is cool looking and placed to the rear so less bothersome than side or front for bedroom in the dark listening.



Quality black coated metal screen with hexagon pattern and larger holes on the corners. I'm sure this helps them sound better than something like AT or JVC uses.

These Glidic have passed all my tests so far. Pressing the button under a winter hat. Fit and stability for sports. Wind noise with ANC and ambient on. The stock tips make them sound right and good. Perhaps the best match for stock tips I have come across. Not the absolute best ones for sound but almost plus good and thick so it helps with ANC. Issue is they are for Japan so the tips are less bulbous and more narrow as they taper to the front and you get XXS, XS, S, M, L. Not a knock as they are catering for home crowd in Japan.

Even though a Japan model the voice prompts are in English. Lady has less of an accent actually than other Japanese models. "Ambient" "Ambient off" "ANC" "Low Latency mode" "Preset 1" "Preset 2" are what she says the rest is tones or silent like for volume, play/pause, and track change.

I'm still tip rolling and haven't settled on one just yet. I mean most of us had plenty so it'll take a while. Philips tips get the best sound so far but a bit thinner so ANC is a smidge less. ANC is decent. I want to dial it in with the tips. Improvement on the Kenwood a bit but those do fit so shallow. I have been using L tips so the Glidic stick out more but the tips seal well. I need to see if the housing will help more closer in with M size tips. No real pressure in the ears from the ANC and the bass is a bit thicker with it on. The sound is only slightly altered but a smidge of thickness perhaps countered with a brighter EQ to restore any perceived loss of clarity.

The earphones work just fine with no missteps. Buttons do everything and with zero accidents. As a $100 earphone I think they sound really good. Just need to compare to some other things. Maybe the lowest the bass reach is a bit less than pricier models and the mids could be pushed forward a smidge more to be ideal for me but no other issues. Tight and quick bass with the right amount and treble is not lacking. Slight V with good detail. Not like some AT, JVC, or the Victor FX100T where the treble is a bit too polite these have a good balance with bass and treble and good detail and both ends are lively quick and fun. Good depth to the sound and a decent size stage. Bass boost is nicely done and good to have. Say, on a DAP where flat which gives more volume since the EQ cuts to prevent clipping and the BB does a nice job. Need to do some comparisons but I feel like buying this instead of the FX150T was the right choice all things considered.

Okay so I did a real quick comparison on my clip player vs. the Kenwoodwhich is fair since SBC only for both. Ambient is quite good but not as good, ANC is indeed a bit better. Sound is more balanced and a bit brighter. Sounds more like the Kenwood signature with the bass boost on. Could actually be more fun and holds it own SBC vs. SBC on my clip player. $99 vs $95 at the prices I bought each and each was a good deal. Still pretty impressed since they are well done and comparing finally I thought perhaps a little new-toy-syndrome might be in play and they could be knocked down a peg. Legit solid with a great design, best control layout, enough features that work well enough and the SQ and tuning are very good. I went in blind on the ANC/ambient/SQ performance mostly for the like of the design, looks, and control set up but the gamble paid off on this one. Repeating from earlier...this instead of the FX150T was probably the right choice for me.


----------



## Blueshound24 (Nov 23, 2022)

scubaphish said:


> I noticed the Fokus Pro are sold out. I also received an email from Noble back in august about microphone placement
> 
> “We do have a new version of the FoKus in the works that will have improved call quality with the microphone located on the faceplate, but it will not be ready for retail sale until October or November.”
> 
> Wonder if that’s ready to go



I saw the FoKus Pro were listed as "sold out".

Now it says, "ON BACK ORDER. SHIPPING EXPECTED DEC 5th 2022"


----------



## Blueshound24 (Nov 24, 2022)

doogle111 said:


> Galaxy buds pro 2 is $125 on amazon for anyone in the US.  Just saw it this morning.  Bought a pair
> 
> What would be some good alternatives that are better than these?  Call quality is also a necessity for me.  Flexible budget



Do you have the sale link? The cheapest I see is $199, and some international versions for $165.
Maybe the deal is gone...

EDIT: I would say the EX is a significant step up from the GBP2.


----------



## Mors

Hi all, I'm posting in this thread looking for some buying help, I posted in the help forum but had no joy.

I'm currently using the Soundcore Liberty Pro 2 daily, and enjoy them, but I'm tempted to treat myself to something new on BF.
In recent times I've been using the:
Soundcore LP2
Sony WH1000XM2
Sennheiser IE8

So that's the sort of sound signature I like.

What would be a good replacement/upgrade for my LP2? That's a wireless IEM. Is there anything new around? I'd say my Max budget would be 500-600dollars.

I looked at the LP3 but they don't really seem like much of an upgrade? I bought and returned the Sennheiser Momentum TW3 recently, but really didn't like them and found the fit awful, it was a toss up between those and the Sony wf-1000xm4, and the Sennheiser seemed to be reviewed much better than the Sony so I've not gone there.

I've not had Shure's in a long long time (although I did love them, but my IE8's were better), should I be looking at the Aonic 4 or 5?

Any help appreciated


----------



## Herman

Toom said:


> Melomania 1+ for £49.95 right now. Worth it?
> 
> Soundwise, how do they stack up against the MTW3?


I bought these this week and first impression is pretty solid. Good sound quality. Not as warm as my Senn MTW2 but tight bass, neutral and clear sounding. Nice app as well.


----------



## dweaver

Mors said:


> Hi all, I'm posting in this thread looking for some buying help, I posted in the help forum but had no joy.
> 
> I'm currently using the Soundcore Liberty Pro 2 daily, and enjoy them, but I'm tempted to treat myself to something new on BF.
> In recent times I've been using the:
> ...


I had the L2P and bought the L3P and like it more. It's smaller and has good sound in my opinion. 

The Shure Aonic 4 and 5, are these wired models that can come with the Shure BT adapter? If so the 5 looks be a replacement for the old 535 model. So if you love the Shure BA sound it will be good. But if you prefer a dynamic driver sound it may not suite your needs especially compared to the IE8.

If you do want a TW adapter you could go the Shure 215 with BT adapter route and then just switch to your favorite MMCX IEM as a replacement for the driver.


----------



## C_Lindbergh (Nov 24, 2022)

Man I hope Technics will release a new TWS soon, really hope at CES in January! They're one of few companies that let you fully customize the controllers along with pause music when enabling ambient.

I'd love a AZ60 V2 with:

* LE Audio
*Improved ANC/Transparency
*Improved SQ
*Improved comfort (even tho they were very comfortable)
*Wireless Charging

Id also want UV light in the case like LG/TWX9, the earbuds were so much easier to clean.

That TWS would have the potentional to be one that I keep until the battery becomes unbearable. xD

Another OEM I'd like to realease a new product is ofc Cambridge Audio, to this day its prob the best soudning TWS that I've tried (I guess mostly thanks to their own amplification). But maybe the experience with the Melomania Touch has scared them away from this market for good ^^


----------



## Canabuc

Lp3 on big discount for black Friday.
Worth getting if I have the AZ60?


----------



## SynaestheticA

C_Lindbergh said:


> Id also want UV light in the case like LG/TWX9, the earbuds were so much easier to clean


I've been curious about this feature. It sounded like a gimmick to capitalize on people's fear of germs.  As if you could catch corona through your ear holes. But you're saying they make cleaning in general easier?


----------



## C_Lindbergh

SynaestheticA said:


> I've been curious about this feature. It sounded like a gimmick to capitalize on people's fear of germs.  As if you could catch corona through your ear holes. But you're saying they make cleaning in general easier?


Yees, the ear wax became easier to remove imo.


----------



## FYLegend

I've been deciding between the Linkbuds S and Soundcore A40. I really am hoping for better ANC than my Liberty 3 Pro so in that regard Linkbuds S sounds like a better option but is still 170$ CAD.



doogle111 said:


> Galaxy buds pro 2 is $125 on amazon for anyone in the US.  Just saw it this morning.  Bought a pair
> 
> What would be some good alternatives that are better than these?  Call quality is also a necessity for me.  Flexible budget


Sadly 219$ in Canada is considered the sale price!



newworld666 said:


> Galaxy Buds2 pro, as they don't have any LDAC codec, should be reserved for users with new Samsung smartphones able to handle SSC (24 bits 48khz) to get a rather good Hires music, otherwise, those will be limited to AAC which is not bad but clearly missing some details compared to SSC codec, LDAC or apxt adaptative.


My concern is how well the SSC codec does on an older Samsung device. On my Note 9, the Buds 2 (I no longer have these) and Buds+ suffer from bit crush/throttling where in congested areas (at home on WiFi) the upper frequencies get compressed. The mids and lower frequencies sound clean but it's very annoying and I believe part of it is the Murata chipset of older Samsung phones (newer phones use Broadcom chips as with the earbud chipset).

Samsung only uses Qualcomm for the processor which is likely one reason why they are not supporting AptX HD. It is theoretically possible for them to obtain drivers but this is probably not in the best interest of either party who have been pushing for proprietary codecs and features. It is a real shame for the end consumer who wishes to have all codecs.


----------



## dweaver (Nov 24, 2022)

I have seen the Linkbuds S in sale for $170CAD at BB and I think Amazon. I own them and the A40. Let me test when I get home but pretty sure the S is better for ANC. But the A40 AS GOOD OR BETTER musically depending on preference and have killer battery life.

Bang for the buck the A40 are a heck of a deal especially if on sale.

Just looked and the A40 is on sale for $90 on Amazon Canada. At close to half the cost unless ANC is your highest priority I would say go A40... I love my Linkbuds S as my 500+ hours testifies to but unless your willing to commit using all of the features of their AI for managing ANC, no ANC, and ambient mode automatically for you they are hard to justify in comparison to other products like the A40.


----------



## erockg

Noble's Black Friday sale is up.  Fokus Pro are on sale for $279


----------



## dweaver (Nov 25, 2022)

OK tested the Linkbuds S vs A40 and the S is definitely better. For a test I set the TV playing at a certain volume that was loud but excessively so. I then used both buds back and forth with just ANC no msuic. The S was quieter but not by a bunch I am thinking maybe 10-15% more. If I started playing muaic though at about 30% volume then the TV was blocked out completely.

So tough call. 

Sonically speaking the S has a bit of that uniquely Sony sound. Not as dark as the WF-1000xm3 but still that Sony signature. So if you like that lush midrange then the Sony will give you that. The A40 on the other hand when using the default signature setting is a bit dryer sounding in the mids, more neutral and  recessed. My custom EQ brings the mids forward so not recessed but still neutral.


----------



## dweaver

Non TWS post but I caved and ordered the Space Q45. Was thinking I might try the Fiio FW5 but couldn't bring myself to brave the AliExpress system and wait a month... Plus no real reviews yet ...


----------



## FYLegend (Nov 25, 2022)

dweaver said:


> Non TWS post but I caved and ordered the Space Q45. Was thinking I might try the Fiio FW5 but couldn't bring myself to brave the AliExpress system and wait a month... Plus no real reviews yet ...


I am in the progress of writing my Q45 review. I was rather disappointed with the 1More Sonoflow and sent them back after trying out the Q45. It's very good for the price and a definite step up from the Q30. Having said that I did notice a few issues with the Q45 that resulted in me getting a replacement from SoundCore which unfortunately had the same issues still (they gave me a partial refund). With ANC or transparency mode enabled the volume of the headphones (especially the bass) undergoes a dramatic oscillation when I move my head suddenly. I've noticed this on other ANC headphones but not as severely as the Q45. If you generally keep your head still the issue is nonexistent but it's not for headbangers or more active usage.



dweaver said:


> OK tested the Linkbuds S vs A40 and the S is definitely better. For a test I set the TV playing at a certain volume that was loud but excessively so. I then used both buds back and forth with just ANC no msuic. The S was quieter but not by a bunch I am thinking maybe 10-15% more. If I started playing muaic though at about 30% volume then the TV was blocked out completely.
> 
> So tough call.
> 
> Sonically speaking the S has a bit of that uniquely Sony sound. Not as dark as the WF-1000xm3 but still that Sony signature. So if you like that lush midrange then the Sony will give you that. The A40 on the other hand when using the default signature setting is a bit dryer sounding in the mids, more neutral and  recessed. My custom EQ brings the mids forward so not recessed but still neutral.


I decided to purchase both and see how I like them. I don't expect the A40 to block out noises any better than my Liberty 3 Pro which struggles with the daily commute (our Skytrains are too loud for the ANC devices I've tried!)

The Liberty 3 Pros are rather fatiguing especially when LDAC is enabled (this seems to introduce more sibilance with a treble spike added). However once I hear them everything else seems muddy and rolled off! I've tried fumbling with the EQ and still feel like something's missing if I customize the EQ.


----------



## newworld666 (Nov 25, 2022)

I use TWS earbuds every night .. most are far too thick to be comfortable when lying on the side, and, when they are not too thick, they have far too tiny battery playing time .(4.5 to 6 hours)...

1) Till now the Galaxy Buds2 pro, were rather compact, quite good autonomy in AAC mode with nearly 7.5 hours playing time without ANC, and a convincing sound quality with some PEQ adjustments (I use Powamp EQ with a Galaxy Z Fold 2, which is perfectly compatible with Bluetooth and Qobuz, Neutron, UAPP)

2) But, I just got the Jabra Elite 7 Pro (20% reduced price with some black friday offers) , which I feel maybe even more compact to lay down on the side, with far more than 10 to 11 hours without ANC in AAC mode and it's definitely more easy to fit perfectly sealed in the ear and are comfortable to manipulate tracks/volume/anc with some real hardware touch buttons.
The Sound Quality is basically more linear and rather flat compared to the Buds2 Pro, but it can be easily adjusted to a Harman Curve Target with Poweramp EQ.  I am missing the SSC (24bits/48khz) Samsung CODEC for some more treble details between 8khz to 14khz, though the Buds2 Pro are far to be as good as wired IEM, even rather cheap like the Truthear x Crinacle Zero or on a comparable price tag like the impressive TANGZU Wu Zetian planars (but they both need a iFi go Blu to be really TWS).

Now, I hope that Jabra will be able to include soon or late some LDAC or at least an Aptx codec in an Elite 7 Pro form factor.. I am really impressed by the comfort (For the first time I don't need any Tips rolling and it's instantly perfectly placed in my ears without needing any replacements after a while like most the IEM when sleeping with them).

The Galaxy Buds2 pro is probably the best option for Samsung SSC compatible smartphones with a convincing sound quality, but the Jabra Elite 7 Pro is maybe more comfortable on many points, and has a very decent sound quality that can be adjusted qui easily with Poweramp EQ.
For sure, there is still room for improvements in the future for all TWS earbuds, but as an Apple, Cambrige Audio, Sony, Samsung, Jabra, .. user I can still say that many wired IEM (even new cheap one) offer more detailed mid-high/high frequencies (less muffled/more open/airy).


----------



## jant71

They are back! Nuarl that is and they join the new legion of those dropping Qualcomm. Only SBC/AAC and LDAC.
https://nuarl.com/next1/




Odd thing I see is, not sure I buy it, is they lose 1.5 hours with ANC on for AAC and SBC but only lose a half hour with ANC on for LDAC.


----------



## clerkpalmer

If anyone finds a promo code that works on the EX today, please let us know!


----------



## pigeontree

SynaestheticA said:


> I've been curious about this feature. It sounded like a gimmick to capitalize on people's fear of germs.  As if you could catch corona through your ear holes. But you're saying they make cleaning in general easier?


I don’t think Covid has ever been much of a consideration with this, but the reduction in ear infections which can be quite prevalent with IEMs should, in theory, be reduced quite a bit. I’m surprised there isn’t more weight on this feature personally, it was a major factor in my decision to buy them.


----------



## nekonhime

https://electronics.woot.com/offers/jvc-jvc-wood-carbon-driver-11mm-true-wirel?ref=mwj_sh_el_43_bs
Jvc kenwood ha 1000t for 144 for anyone interested


----------



## dweaver (Nov 25, 2022)

FYLegend said:


> I am in the progress of writing my Q45 review. I was rather disappointed with the 1More Sonoflow and sent them back after trying out the Q45. It's very good for the price and a definite step up from the Q30. Having said that I did notice a few issues with the Q45 that resulted in me getting a replacement from SoundCore which unfortunately had the same issues still (they gave me a partial refund). With ANC or transparency mode enabled the volume of the headphones (especially the bass) undergoes a dramatic oscillation when I move my head suddenly. I've noticed this on other ANC headphones but not as severely as the Q45. If you generally keep your head still the issue is nonexistent but it's not for headbangers or more active usage.
> 
> 
> I decided to purchase both and see how I like them. I don't expect the A40 to block out noises any better than my Liberty 3 Pro which struggles with the daily commute (our Skytrains are too loud for the ANC devices I've tried!)
> ...


I hope that Q45 issue doesn't bother me! 

The signature of A40 is definitely different than the S. For the most part I actually prefer the mids of the S more especially for Jazz. I might see if I can tweak the A40 to have that lush sound.

I listed to the DHRME review where they play 4 song samples on the XM5 and the Q45 and was torn. The Q45 sounded very similar to the A40 in the midrange and treble with more bass. So I preferred the first song sample that was mostly female vocals more on the XM5 but almost everything else I preferred the Q45 over the XM5.

Without HearID I will be tweaking the EQ manually more, so again may see if I can find a way to give the vocals some lush sound.

If they can handle some wind, they might become my earmuffs for the winter...


----------



## mikp

helmutcheese said:


> SoundPeats Mini Pro HS review: Hi-Res Audio Wireless certified with LDAC codec​
> 
> 
> *SoundPeats Mini Pro HS specs and features:*​
> ...


any release date for this? ldac can be interesting,but the xptx one did not get that flowing reviews.


----------



## Picopala

I had a question : is the shure tws2 de vice sold  Alone is the same than the tws2 sold as a combo with the Shure 215 iem. ?


----------



## BooleanBones

Picopala said:


> I had a question : is the shure tws2 de vice sold  Alone is the same than the tws2 sold as a combo with the Shure 215 iem. ?


Yes, just make sure you choose Gen2 and not a Gen1 TW2 for version. I have seen some of the originals still floating around for sale.


----------



## Picopala

IT does say TW2 on thé Shure 215 combo but IT is 50 € cheaper than the TW2 alone…


----------



## BooleanBones

Picopala said:


> IT does say TW2 on thé Shure 215 combo but IT is 50 € cheaper than the TW2 alone…


Yeah, sometimes they have the combo with the 215 cheaper than the stand alone adapter. You just need to make sure it is generation 2 of the TW2 adapter.


----------



## james444

mikp said:


> any release date for this? ldac can be interesting,but the xptx one did not get that flowing reviews.



https://www.amazon.co.jp/dp/B0BGXV28QN/


----------



## AmericanSpirit (Nov 25, 2022)

I received SoundPeats’s Air 3 Deluxe HS (their naming is terrible. Confusing consumers across their line up. I will just put it as Air3DHS)

-LDAC TWS, with no ANC, open earbuds
-Goes around $40USD not bad.

-connection on LDAC get cut every 5min, hmm. Probably some interference. Don’t put iphone in between TWS and DAP, this could cause the interference.

-In order to EQ, you will need soundpeats app which requires and asking to validate your email address thru pin code🤔 A bit scary

-Sound is pretty good, can be used as AirPods Pro substitutes.  Warm neutral default tuning and EQ can adjust it from sub-bass to 5.5khz.

-top end feels a bit constrained, but resolution is higher than I expected from $40 TWS

-being an open-end earbuds, you can hear your surrounding, a great choice for the needs that you have to pay attention for what’s going on around your

-the wide & accurate sound stage as you can expect from earbuds style, Soundpeats must have got a genius engineer figuring out, loudness status into a very linear and coherent phasing

-being an open-end earbuds, I’d generally won’t expect any sub-bass existence, not for this Air3DHS, there is sizable sub-bass, which would satisfy most of listeners. I EQ’d a sub-bass lift setting with 1db lift for 2.4khz and 3.5khz section for a bit more upper mid clarity for my preference. Which makes this TWS a very welcoming one to put on. It’s light as Airpods Pro, this helps for wearing it for long time or running.

-touch sensor may need some improvement though…too sensitive. At least Soundpeats could have users to set what a single tap could do, which I generally set to nothing to prevent unintended touch. (Nvm, the app had “disable 1 tap” checkbox.)

-imaging, image positioning coherence is the best sales point, with the low latency gaming mode, I guess this works as a great tool for FPS, and music game.


----------



## SLO7_MACHIN3

I'm looking to buy my first TWS mainly to use in the gym/exercise. I'm looking at the 1more evo, Oppo enco x2, Final ZE3000, Sennheiser sport, Jabra elite 7. I'm wondering how these compare size and confort wise. I don't have a clue about ANC, since i never tried it, but it is not a priority.


----------



## Canabuc

dweaver said:


> I have seen the Linkbuds S in sale for $170CAD at BB and I think Amazon. I own them and the A40. Let me test when I get home but pretty sure the S is better for ANC. But the A40 AS GOOD OR BETTER musically depending on preference and have killer battery life.
> 
> Bang for the buck the A40 are a heck of a deal especially if on sale.
> 
> Just looked and the A40 is on sale for $90 on Amazon Canada. At close to half the cost unless ANC is your highest priority I would say go A40... I love my Linkbuds S as my 500+ hours testifies to but unless your willing to commit using all of the features of their AI for managing ANC, no ANC, and ambient mode automatically for you they are hard to justify in comparison to other products like the A40.


How does the A40 compare to  the LP3?


----------



## dweaver

I actually like the L3P more signature wise. It has a bigger more articulate bass and being an old dude I like the treble clarity. But the L3P is definitely sharper for treble so not everyone will like that aspect.


----------



## Canabuc

dweaver said:


> I actually like the L3P more signature wise. It has a bigger more articulate bass and being an old dude I like the treble clarity. But the L3P is definitely sharper for treble so not everyone will like that aspect.


At 120$ Canadian is it a go?


----------



## AmericanSpirit

SLO7_MACHIN3 said:


> I'm looking to buy my first TWS mainly to use in the gym/exercise. I'm looking at the 1more evo, Oppo enco x2, Final ZE3000, Sennheiser sport, Jabra elite 7. I'm wondering how these compare size and confort wise. I don't have a clue about ANC, since i never tried it, but it is not a priority.


I have some of TWS, and based on my experience when you sweat, the open earbuds type (like the ones of earpod of apple) feels better because it’s open and ventilated. But down side is it’s semi-open, so you can hear the noise.

I’m currently using airpods pro for gyms, it’s light and doesn’t fall of while your treadmill exercises.  Also the TWS with long nose that needed to be inserted deep into your ear canal, to me while exercising, is uncomfortable. So you may want to look for a shallow insert type (air pods pro is considered shallow insert). Also for stability, you may avoid a bean shaped ones, it may fall off.


----------



## FYLegend

dweaver said:


> I actually like the L3P more signature wise. It has a bigger more articulate bass and being an old dude I like the treble clarity. But the L3P is definitely sharper for treble so not everyone will like that aspect.


I'm not sure if LDAC mode is actually causing an EQ shift or if it is baked into the codec implemantation, but these become razor sharp with LDAC enabled and warmer with it disabled. I've also read some users claiming this only holds true if you have an older Android device like the Samsung Galaxy Note 8 or Note 9 and changes if you change the bit depth/samplle rate while using LDAC - I tried doing this on my Note 9but end up with no sound at all!

I also find my newer purple L3P sounds a tad smoother in the highs than my older silver unit. I'm not sure if this is due to cleaning the nozzles with an air duster at some point, different eartips (the purple unit's eartips seem more sturdy and don't flip back when I yank them out of my ears) or if it is actually down to nnit variation.

I just received the Linkbuds S, they seem fairly respectable but I agree they are dark/warm - soundstage seems deep but not too wide.


----------



## dweaver

Canabuc said:


> At 120$ Canadian is it a go?


I think that's about what I paid for mine and I thought it was a good deal.


----------



## dweaver

LDAC can certainly affect things and not always for the better. One thing I have noticed lately is I can't adjust the settings in developer mode like I used to. Maybe an OS update is changing what's allowed not sure. But not always the easiest codec to manage.


----------



## Fleeple

Not sure if it's on sale or not, but I've now spent about 24 hours with the nuratrue pro and I thought I'd share my findings; 

The fitting process takes a while in the app, but it makes a truly solid difference. I haven't even touched the EQ settings, but I'm not sure I want to. I just adjust the bass every now and then and I'm set. The sound on these are wonderful, and I can only imagine how much better they would be with a phone chipset to actually take advantage of the lossless and cd-quality.

Comfort is largely here, and I think it's a good balance between "it isn't coming loose" and "is there anything there?". Could be better, could be worse, currently very solid. 

Plenty of touch controls, all customizable. 4 options per bud as of writing this, and I'm largely set (though may need to tweak some settings in order to actually hang up).

Latency was a minor hiccup, but I was advised to just...turn aptx on and off again, and now everything is running smoothly as near as I can tell. 

I'm told the mic isn't stellar, but does work decently (described as lacking some depth) and gets the job done. 

These look pretty awesome to me, but I also loved my old satellite dishes (Microsoft surface buds) to death; essentially, take this with a grain of salt. 

Battery life has caused no issues, with or without anc. 

ANC is......could be better, could be worse. These make me feel a bit underwater when there's no music with anc, but that's relatively alleviated when I resume. Don't know if this can be fixed or if it's improper vents. 

Passthrough is average. I hear myself, I hear others, but I'm no Superman and music isn't as great as it is with the linkbuds s. 

This is, to me, an excellent attempt at a do-everything pair of earbuds, and I'd definitely consider giving them a shot.


----------



## MarkParity

Fleeple said:


> Not sure if it's on sale or not, but I've now spent about 24 hours with the nuratrue pro and I thought I'd share my findings;
> 
> The fitting process takes a while in the app, but it makes a truly solid difference. I haven't even touched the EQ settings, but I'm not sure I want to. I just adjust the bass every now and then and I'm set. The sound on these are wonderful, and I can only imagine how much better they would be with a phone chipset to actually take advantage of the lossless and cd-quality.
> 
> ...


It comes with a "free" Bluetooth transmitter at the moment I believe.

Have you tested Aptx-Lossless yet? If so is it noticeably better than the normal Aptx?


----------



## Fleeple

MarkParity said:


> It comes with a "free" Bluetooth transmitter at the moment I believe.
> 
> Have you tested Aptx-Lossless yet? If so is it noticeably better than the normal Aptx?


I sadly do not have a phone capable of using lossless; I believe it's only a handful at the moment, and I think they all have to be at least snapdragon gen 1 to have the possibility of getting the upgrade for it but I may be wrong. 

Is it free for just plain purchasing, or only for kickstarters? I'd be curious to try this.


----------



## MarkParity

Fleeple said:


> I sadly do not have a phone capable of using lossless; I believe it's only a handful at the moment, and I think they all have to be at least snapdragon gen 1 to have the possibility of getting the upgrade for it but I may be wrong.
> 
> Is it free for just plain purchasing, or only for kickstarters? I'd be curious to try this.


Yes, I think a couple of Asus phones and a Samsung support it at the moment and that is it. It should take off next year with all the Snapdragon 8+ Gen 1 phones supporting AptX lossless next year, maybe.

If I add the Pro to my cart I get this, but it's a pre-order and I don't believe the free audio transmitter supports Lossless either.


----------



## helmutcheese (Nov 26, 2022)

It does AFAIK and it is delayed, and they have supposedly updated the chipset to a higher model (QCC5171 AFAIR) due to the delay.

So, if true aptX Lossless, aptX Voice 32kHz and LE Audio.


----------



## MarkParity

helmutcheese said:


> It does AFAIK and it is delayed, and they have supposedly updated the chipset to a higher model due to the delay.


Awesome.


----------



## nekonhime

MarkParity said:


> Yes, I think a couple of Asus phones and a Samsung support it at the moment and that is it. It should take off next year with all the Snapdragon 8+ Gen 1 phones supporting AptX lossless next year, maybe.
> 
> If I add the Pro to my cart I get this, but it's a pre-order and I don't believe the free audio transmitter supports Lossless either.


Just wait for the gen 2, they will include the ll and snapdragon sound.


----------



## SynaestheticA (Nov 26, 2022)

Hadn't seen anything new on the Nuarl site for a while despite word back in March of new products on the horizon. Realised my mistake was changing to the English version of the web page. If I translate the JP version I got this




And then today this




Looking classy as all hell as can be expected from this brand. Price point looks high but with a new driver design and LDAC (Still not sure if I prefer this over aptx) this will eventually be an 'buy' for me




https://nuarl.com/en/next1/


----------



## mikp

james444 said:


> https://www.amazon.co.jp/dp/B0BGXV28QN/


ok, was hoping for on ali. But see the shipping is not that much from amazon japan


----------



## Mors

Thanks for your thoughts @dweaver , I ordered the LP3 on next day as I'm still lost for ideas, just unboxed them now and me and them really don't get on  The fit even on the biggest wings mean they just fall out vs my LP2, and they only go upto half the volume of the LP2 too. I held them in place with my LP2 and A/B'd them and I can't hear a difference, maybe maybe a little extra clarity, but not an upgrade for me sadly, so I've boxed them back up and they're going back.
So now I'm back to square one, but I am now considering your suggestion re getting a standard set of IEMs with mmcx and pairing them up with the TW2 connector from Shure. Any suggestions in budget? I need to have a good trawl of the threads for the best under 500 dollars. Blessing 2?
Argh


----------



## dweaver

@Mors I went Fiio all the way on my setup FH5 and UTWS5 and love that combo. I got the FH5 at a bit of a discount so it cost me about $500CAD all together.

I am not very up to date on IEM models and brands these days so can't offer a lot of help unfortunately.

I know some members here prefer to FH3 over the FH5 and lots like IEMs like the Blessing and Starfield (might have that name wrong).

I went UTWS5 but the Shure BT adapter might be more refined for features and functionality.

You might also want to try the Fiio FW5 if your willing to take a risk. It's brand new though with no reviews yet and has to be ordered from AlieExpress. I am thinking it might end up being a great TWS as it looks to be based on the FH3 for drivers. I personally don't like the mess of ordering from over seas so am waiting until it's more commercially available.


----------



## james444

Looks like yet another Soundpeats model with LDAC upgrade:






https://www.amazon.co.jp/-/en/dp/B0BM4L12MX/


----------



## helmutcheese (Nov 26, 2022)

A Bit late to the LDAC party, as it not as good as it is made out to be and poor battery life.

SoundPeats should concentrate more on their QA.


----------



## dweaver

Why are the Soundcore Liberty 4 unavailable in other countries?

They seem intriguing but just not available outside of the US. They also are not being talked about aside from all the early sample reviews.


----------



## raymanh

dweaver said:


> Why are the Soundcore Liberty 4 unavailable in other countries?
> 
> They seem intriguing but just not available outside of the US. They also are not being talked about aside from all the early sample reviews.



Yep. Also waiting for it to be available where I am currently.


----------



## Juturna

Yep, same here... Trying to figure out why they haven't made the L4 available anywhere else. 

Think i read somewhere about difficulties getting enough components for them so they're prioritizing the American market first, but might not be true and I don't remember where I read that even.


----------



## regancipher

Here in the UK Anker were offering a crazy deal - Soundcore Liberty 3 Pro (white) + Liberty Air 2 Pro (Pink) for £89.99. I bit, even though I had the L3P on release and wasn't keen I thought I'd give them another go and sell the LA2P, for which I can probably get £39.99, meaning £50 for the L3P. 

It's a real problem biting at these older chipset earbud deals, because you get used to stable LDAC, LDAC + Multipoint and decent battery life, none of which the L3P have. Soundpeats Air 3 Deluxe HS (after firmware update) are far more stable, far less impacted by LDAC on battery life too. Sound is pretty good, and the default sound signature is far more palatable than when they were released but the bass is still pretty overwhelming. Also, is it me or is the case incredibly counter-intuitive when it comes to removing the buds?!


----------



## regancipher

AmericanSpirit said:


> I received SoundPeats’s Air 3 Deluxe HS (their naming is terrible. Confusing consumers across their line up. I will just put it as Air3DHS)
> 
> -LDAC TWS, with no ANC, open earbuds
> -Goes around $40USD not bad.
> ...


Pretty much identical to my experience with them, although updating the firmware seems to have resolved the glitches. They play much nicer with my Xiaomi 11T Pro than my Google Pixel 6A (although that's the case for every earbud pretty much)


----------



## Kukuster (Nov 27, 2022)

Hey guys! What are some of the wireless IEMs with more towards neutral/flat/unbiased sound (without a significant emphasis on bass, as most IEMs, and without neglecting mids - no significant V shape) available on the market for under $150? Ideally, with the LDAC support, or at least some aptX is ok.


----------



## helmutcheese

mikp said:


> any release date for this? ldac can be interesting,but the xptx one did not get that flowing reviews.



They are in stock on Amazon US and listed but out of stock on UK.


----------



## Blueshound24

I am thinking of getting the Fokus Pro. 

I think the EX has spectacular detail, separation, depth and soundstage, so for those who have heard both the EX and Fokus Pro, is the Fokus Pro at least as good as the EX, especially in depth/soundstage?

And I know this is apples to oranges, but would you compare the Fokus Pro to the sound, detail, treble and soundstage of the HD800s, or to the (to my ears, veiled) HD650? My old ears don't hear as well as they used to and they appreciate the treble being a bit forward.


----------



## Phaethon

Kukuster said:


> Hey guys! What are some of the wireless IEMs with more towards neutral/flat/unbiased sound (without a significant emphasis on bass, as most IEMs, and without neglecting mids - no significant V shape) available on the market for under $150? Ideally, with the LDAC support, or at least some aptX is ok.


I suggest looking at the fine lists at https://www.scarbir.com/  There are several there that I think meet your criteria


----------



## SynaestheticA

Kukuster said:


> Hey guys! What are some of the wireless IEMs with more towards neutral/flat/unbiased sound (without a significant emphasis on bass, as most IEMs, and without neglecting mids - no significant V shape) available on the market for under $150? Ideally, with the LDAC support, or at least some aptX is ok.


People on this site are probably sick of me recommending this brand, but the most nuetral and beautiful sound I've heard for what you want is the Nuarl N6 Pro 2 or N6 Mini / 2se if you want something smaller. 

Aptx and ipx7. Mini is the most comfortable I've tried. Just ordered another pair cause I lost my last ones. 

There is no ANC but natural isolation is better than some cheap brands ANC. 

Their sound is quite beautiful, really the best mids and treble I've heard at the price range.


----------



## tan1415 (Nov 27, 2022)

Just when I thought I was out, they pulled me back in.

Damn my needs.it has been literally years since I was on Headfi.

I have been a headfi junkie. But since I got married I tend not to use headphones anymore.

So lately my go to headphones are the Sony WH-1000XM4. Ever since the first one…I fell in one with Sony headphones and have kept buying them. The combination of sound, ANC and convenience BT…blew me away. I also really used to its sound signature.
At home I use the Qjays as my go to IEM and the Shure 940 when I listen to music.

But this headphone has 1 drawback. It’s to big and not as convenient to carry around. Also ANC in the street can be rather scary.

So now because of Black Friday i wanted to buy myself some cheap TWS . Wow I am surprised how cheap I can go to find a decent TWS earphones. This will be used on my IPhone 13 Pro along with Spotify.

I want good sound, safe for sweat and rain(minimum ip4) and comfortable with solid battery life. ANC is not a must.

The basis was the wf-1000xm4. Leading in class with sound and ANC. But as ANC is not important to me it’s definite out of my budget.

After reading reviews I knew that with the discounts offered on Black Friday I was looking at around 50€.

My shortlist is as follows:

1) CA Melomania 1plus at €50,00.
Been listening to it. Sound is good, but ear buds is not as comfortable in my ears. Also have had some issues with the first pair so that I had to return it.

2) Sony WF C 500 at €50,00 a stripped down WF 1000xm4 according to reviews and quite highly regarded.
With a sound signature close to my Sony XM4 it interest me.

3) JBL tune tws 230 NC at € 45 is quite interesting. Not sure about the JBL sound signature though. To Bassey?

4) Jabra elite 4 active at 69€.
At my budget this is to expensive for what imam getting. Also as I use Apple this doesn’t have AAC. So I think this will be a pass.

Edit: 5) after reading Scarbor Review I bought the Samsung Buds Live has been reduced to 49€.
I am afraid that it’s only IP2.
But imam interested because it’s not an IEM.
I forgot to add that I stopped with headfi due to my ears getting easily irritated. I used to use headphones in one form or another formate than 14 hours a day. Definitely not healthy for my ears.

I read Scabir list and I am surprised so many unknown TWS are tops on his list. Only Melomania is a known for me.

With my choices and current budget…which would you recommend?
I am interested to other suggestions within my budget or higher…

Thank you for reading and aI appreciate your feedback.


----------



## nekonhime

tan1415 said:


> Just when I thought I was out, they pulled me back in.
> 
> Damn my needs.it has been literally years since I was on Headfi.
> 
> ...


Just my small opinion, if you can find the kenwood ws a1 for around 50-60 bucks then you should try it. Better sound than xm4, better mics, anc is like xm3. The downside is the size.


----------



## tan1415

nekonhime said:


> Just my small opinion, if you can find the kenwood ws a1 for around 50-60 bucks then you should try it. Better sound than xm4, better mics, anc is like xm3. The downside is the size.


Not in Europe unfortunately.


----------



## nekonhime

tan1415 said:


> Not in Europe unfortunately.


What a shame


----------



## bladefd (Nov 28, 2022)

nekonhime said:


> Just my small opinion, if you can find the kenwood ws a1 for around 50-60 bucks then you should try it. Better sound than xm4, better mics, anc is like xm3. The downside is the size.


Can't find any reviews on the Kenwood. Are they that new or what? You mentioned they have better sound than xm4 and anc like xm3. That's quite a complement! It has aptx, 3 mics, 8hrs runtime, Bluetooth 5.2, 10mm drivers, etc for $80. Why is it completely under the radar? Has anyone else tried them??

I only see one dealer also: https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1713061-REG/kenwood_usa_wsa1g_smart_headset_with_google.html


----------



## nekonhime

bladefd said:


> Can't find any reviews on the Kenwood. Are they that new or what? You mentioned they have better sound than xm4 and anc like xm3. That's quite a complement! It has aptx, 3 mics, 8hrs runtime, Bluetooth 5.2, 10mm drivers, etc for $80. Why is it completely under the radar? Has anyone else tried them??
> 
> I only see one dealer also: https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1713061-REG/kenwood_usa_wsa1g_smart_headset_with_google.html


I have it and it is a very capable one better than the every buds I heard including the eq, xm4, n400nc


----------



## newworld666

bladefd said:


> Can't find any reviews on the Kenwood. Are they that new or what? You mentioned they have better sound than xm4 and anc like xm3. That's quite a complement! It has aptx, 3 mics, 8hrs runtime, Bluetooth 5.2, 10mm drivers, etc for $80. Why is it completely under the radar? Has anyone else tried them??
> 
> I only see one dealer also: https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1713061-REG/kenwood_usa_wsa1g_smart_headset_with_google.html



They look huge, no LDAC.. 
I imagine the Jabra Elite 7 pro are much more tiny, with a very good sound quality and more than 10 hours playing time on one charge without anc..


----------



## nekonhime

newworld666 said:


> They look huge, no LDAC..
> I imagine the Jabra Elite 7 pro are much more tiny, with a very good sound quality and more than 10 hours playing time on one charge without anc..


The kenwood released in 2020 so ldac wasn't that available yet but the sound is much better than many nowadays buds. They have beryllium drivers which only for the high end products but they only cost around 60-80 bucks


----------



## AmericanSpirit

dweaver said:


> @Mors I went Fiio all the way on my setup FH5 and UTWS5 and love that combo. I got the FH5 at a bit of a discount so it cost me about $500CAD all together.
> 
> I am not very up to date on IEM models and brands these days so can't offer a lot of help unfortunately.
> 
> ...


Great! Now you have Bluetooth hook. Oh wait…FiiO…MMCX.. anyway they should have 2pin adapters readily available. 

If you find FH5 is not satisfying your needs, give HEXA a try, it cost less than half price of UTW5. For Single Dynamic, Starfield is a great, but not best one now. Aria (black original, right now it’s like $64) will be better options for a single dynamic to try. 
NOT ARIA SE(because it’s basically remodeled Starfield/KXXS with CNT drivers in ). 
If you liked HEXA, and want a further upgrade, Moondrop’s Variation ($460 with Black Friday sale) is an upgrade options to consider. 

And if you are feeling in need of more layering / detail retrieval, Thieaudio Monarch MKII may fit that ultimate push. Beyond that point I guess it will be pay $1k over few percentages of improvements, diminished return regions.


----------



## james444

tan1415 said:


> Just when I thought I was out, they pulled me back in.
> 
> Damn my needs.it has been literally years since I was on Headfi.
> 
> ...



Personally, I would recommend the QCY HT05 (aka Melobuds ANC). In Europe, you can get them from here for €40 (use the shop's app to receive a 10% discount):
https://top4mobile.eu/Catalogue/433/airpods-and-alternatives/55913/qcy-ht05-tws-earphones-white

Then install the QCY-app and configure the in-device EQ as suggested here:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/goi...e-we-there-yet.861024/page-3216#post-17194090

I have more expensive TWS (e.g. the JVC FW1000T) and a bunch of IEMs on BT-adapters, but the HT05 is the one I use most. As an overall budget-friendly package, with good fit, sound, anc and configurable controls, it's very hard to beat imo.


----------



## raymanh

Phaethon said:


> I suggest looking at the fine lists at https://www.scarbir.com/  There are several there that I think meet your criteria



Talking of scarbir, are they on this forum?


----------



## helmutcheese (Nov 28, 2022)

DP (ignore)


----------



## helmutcheese (Nov 28, 2022)

newworld666 said:


> They look huge, no LDAC..
> I imagine the Jabra Elite 7 pro are much more tiny, with a very good sound quality and more than 10 hours playing time on one charge without anc..


^^ Also no LDAC so a moot point, as Jabra are also generally poor with Codecs and battery life and *10 hours is the most I have known* (before it was 6-8 etc) and that will be AAC @ 50% Vol.

CD Rips will sound as good/better at aptX 320k then LDAC 330k, unless you need 660/990k for Hi-res files.

*EDIT: I was not imagining it; Jabra Elite 7 pro are 8 hours battery.*

If that was with ANC enabled, they would surely list that to look better if 10 hours.


----------



## newworld666 (Nov 28, 2022)

helmutcheese said:


> ^^ Also no LDAC so a moot point, as Jabra are also generally poor with Codecs and battery life and *10 hours is the most I have known* (before it was 6-8 etc) and that will be AAC @ 50% Vol.
> 
> CD Rips will sound as good/better at aptX 320k then LDAC 330k, unless you need 660/990k for Hi-res files.
> 
> ...



I use mine every night and it is more than 10 hours continuous playing music, I think at a little bit less than 50% vol (it's probably 11 to 12 hours* without ANC*, so it's over my max needs, as I never reached 30% or less battery left)..
I think ANC is useless for me with proper tips... I don't catch any difference even in my office.

They are clearly more comfortable than my Galaxy Buds2 pro and around 3 hours more playing time. Which means no need to charge in the day time and/or for evening + whole night in a sleeping room.
SSC codec of Samsung is rather convincing with 24 bits 48khz, but the Jabra Elite 7 pro in AAC mode is a very big step in SQ from Elite 75 or 85... and now it is not so far from the Buds2 pro though they have no Hires Codec.


----------



## regancipher

raymanh said:


> Talking of scarbir, are they on this forum?


I don't think he is, and he seems to be taking a little break from reviews at the moment


----------



## Caipirina

newworld666 said:


> I use TWS earbuds every night .. most are far too thick to be comfortable when lying on the side, and, when they are not too thick, they have far too tiny battery playing time .(4.5 to 6 hours)...


I tried soooo many TWS for sleeping and while the 1more Comfobuds Z were ok for side sleeping, the battery lasted only 2.5h in the beginning and became less and less rather quickly 

Then I realized that for sleeping, I am not too fuzzy about sound quality, since I listen mainly to binaural / meditation / sleep music ... and for that check amazon.fr for musicozy sleep headbands ... I got my first for as low as 10€ ... and I wear it every night now! Battery lasts over 12h, I don't feel anything when laying on the side ... just a thought, I wish I had tried those earlier, would have saved me some TWS money


----------



## Blueshound24

Blueshound24 said:


> I am thinking of getting the Fokus Pro.
> 
> I think the EX has spectacular detail, separation, depth and soundstage, so for those who have heard both the EX and Fokus Pro, is the Fokus Pro at least as good as the EX, especially in depth/soundstage?
> 
> And I know this is apples to oranges, but would you compare the Fokus Pro to the sound, detail, treble and soundstage of the HD800s, or to the (to my ears, veiled) HD650? My old ears don't hear as well as they used to and they appreciate the treble being a bit forward.



@erockg, any thoughts on this? TIA


----------



## dweaver

dweaver said:


> I hope that Q45 issue doesn't bother me!
> 
> The signature of A40 is definitely different than the S. For the most part I actually prefer the mids of the S more especially for Jazz. I might see if I can tweak the A40 to have that lush sound.
> 
> ...


Last non TWS post...

I received my Q45 yesterday and so far I have not been able to produce the weird issue FYILegend experienced. This may be my old ears unable to hear it though... The closest I came to that is a weird effect when I closed the door on my car wearing these. I have had similar issues with air pressure with some other over ear headphones including Sony in the past though, so while annoying I tend to think of it as a potential side effect of ANC with over ear cans.

I am really liking this headphone! It has really good detail and sound quality, punching way above it's price point. It is a bit on the big side but not egregiously so and it packs a heck of a lot of features. I wish it had HearID like it's TWS siblings but have found a really good custom EQ I am liking, so not to worried about the lack of the feature.

I am hoping these will be my new Multi-point device for music and teams while working. So far MP is working perfect, and I am thinking I won't have to worry about these dying in the middle of a meeting (50+ hour battery life...) as compared to the issues I have had using TWS for this purpose in the past couple of months.


----------



## FYLegend (Nov 28, 2022)

Sadly it looks like there's a delay with getting A40 from Ontario to BC! Mine isn't arriving until next Friday, so much for Prime and being fulfilled by Amazon!

A friend of mine bought an A40 at Best Buy but it turned out to be a dud - he said one of the earbuds completely cuts off when wearing them properly but not when pressing them against the ear.


----------



## dougms3

Just wanted to say thanks to thev guys that recommended the sound core liberty 3 pro.  

Received them today and took a quick listen to make sure they sounded ok.  

They sound great, better than my Sony xfm3.


----------



## dj24

newworld666 said:


> I use mine every night and it is more than 10 hours continuous playing music, I think at a little bit less than 50% vol (it's probably 11 to 12 hours* without ANC*, so it's over my max needs, as I never reached 30% or less battery left)..
> I think ANC is useless for me with proper tips... I don't catch any difference even in my office.
> 
> They are clearly more comfortable than my Galaxy Buds2 pro and around 3 hours more playing time. Which means no need to charge in the day time and/or for evening + whole night in a sleeping room.
> SSC codec of Samsung is rather convincing with 24 bits 48khz, but the Jabra Elite 7 pro in AAC mode is a very big step in SQ from Elite 75 or 85... and now it is not so far from the Buds2 pro though they have no Hires Codec.


Tried the Elite 7 pro once before and liked them overall before I returned them.  Reason- channel imbalance where one earbud was draining much faster and dying much quicker compared to the other.  Any issues with yours?


----------



## regancipher

Caipirina said:


> I tried soooo many TWS for sleeping and while the 1more Comfobuds Z were ok for side sleeping, the battery lasted only 2.5h in the beginning and became less and less rather quickly
> 
> Then I realized that for sleeping, I am not too fuzzy about sound quality, since I listen mainly to binaural / meditation / sleep music ... and for that check amazon.fr for musicozy sleep headbands ... I got my first for as low as 10€ ... and I wear it every night now! Battery lasts over 12h, I don't feel anything when laying on the side ... just a thought, I wish I had tried those earlier, would have saved me some TWS money


That's exactly what I use and always what I recommend, life changing it isn't it?!


----------



## raymanh

dweaver said:


> Last non TWS post...
> 
> I received my Q45 yesterday and so far I have not been able to produce the weird issue FYILegend experienced. This may be my old ears unable to hear it though... The closest I came to that is a weird effect when I closed the door on my car wearing these. I have had similar issues with air pressure with some other over ear headphones including Sony in the past though, so while annoying I tend to think of it as a potential side effect of ANC with over ear cans.
> 
> ...



Have you used any of their other headphone like the Q30 and Q35?


----------



## dweaver (Nov 28, 2022)

Other than test listening to models in Best Buy I have not. The ones I listened to at BB always seemed way to bass heavy, so I wasn't willing to try them because they didn't seem up to what I wanted out of a headphone.

I have no way of saying if the Q45 is better in this regard because I have not used those other models with BT on my phone. But unless the demo stations are complete and utter garbage (which is a possibility) the Q45 compared to what I heard in store is definitely higher quality to my ears. Assuming what I like is higher quality... LOL


----------



## erockg

Blueshound24 said:


> @erockg, any thoughts on this? TIA


Fokus definitely have the edge over the EX for sound.  Three drivers to one dynamic.  I have the EX and believe it or not, repurchased the Fokus because I love their sound so much.  Incredibly powerful and detailed buds imo.  I don't have any experience with the HD models you refer to.  As you know, so hard to compare a TWS to cans.  Typing this while I'm trying to decide if I should get the B&W PX8 or the M&D MW75!!!  Ugh.


----------



## bladefd

newworld666 said:


> I use mine every night and it is more than 10 hours continuous playing music, I think at a little bit less than 50% vol (it's probably 11 to 12 hours* without ANC*, so it's over my max needs, as I never reached 30% or less battery left)..
> I think ANC is useless for me with proper tips... I don't catch any difference even in my office.
> 
> They are clearly more comfortable than my Galaxy Buds2 pro and around 3 hours more playing time. Which means no need to charge in the day time and/or for evening + whole night in a sleeping room.
> SSC codec of Samsung is rather convincing with 24 bits 48khz, but the Jabra Elite 7 pro in AAC mode is a very big step in SQ from Elite 75 or 85... and now it is not so far from the Buds2 pro though they have no Hires Codec.


Do the Jabra 7 pro support aptx? Wonder how they compare to the Sennheiser mtw3, which I have had my eye on for a while but not pulled the trigger. I don't mind playing the waiting game tbh for ces in January to see what is announced


----------



## newworld666

bladefd said:


> Do the Jabra 7 pro support aptx? Wonder how they compare to the Sennheiser mtw3, which I have had my eye on for a while but not pulled the trigger. I don't mind playing the waiting game tbh for ces in January to see what is announced



some measurements from rtings .... no aptx, but somewhere the Elite 7 pro is among the best sound quality available for music with their measurements.

https://www.rtings.com/headphones/t...ireless-3/28113/32189?usage=19&threshold=0.10


----------



## TK33

Caipirina said:


> I tried soooo many TWS for sleeping and while the 1more Comfobuds Z were ok for side sleeping, the battery lasted only 2.5h in the beginning and became less and less rather quickly
> 
> Then I realized that for sleeping, I am not too fuzzy about sound quality, since I listen mainly to binaural / meditation / sleep music ... and for that check amazon.fr for musicozy sleep headbands ... I got my first for as low as 10€ ... and I wear it every night now! Battery lasts over 12h, I don't feel anything when laying on the side ... just a thought, I wish I had tried those earlier, would have saved me some TWS money


I have given up on TWS for sleeping. I currently use the B&W Px7 S2 for sleeping since I sleep on my back.

On separate note, I got the Galaxy Buds2 Pro yesterday and, in my opinion, Samsung did great job with these.  I get a nice stable fit with the large stock tips and a good seal and I did not need to adjust nearly as frequently as my Galaxy Buds2.  They are a bit larger than my Buds2 but this may be helping with stability in my big ears (I like the new flatter design).  Sound is much more balanced although mids/vocals did sound a bit recessed for my taste.  It would be nice if Samsung provided a better EQ.  SSC codec is nice but I was getting some distortion if I turned on 360 Audio (source was Amazon Music on my Samsung S22+).  For the $110 these cost me (after trade in), I am very happy with these.


----------



## dweaver

I use the GB2P more than any other TWS at the moment. I also wish they had a better EQ . I do use the dynamic preset and like it at times but a custom EQ would be a huge step forward in my opinion. I wish Samsung would stop just keeping up with Apple which appears to be all they are willing to do, in regard to features.


----------



## C_Lindbergh (Nov 28, 2022)

How does the Galaxy buds pro 2 voice detect feature works? Isn't pretty consistent and do you found it easy to have a quick convo and then back to ANC?

I thought that feature was a hit and miss on the Linkbuds S, pretty much useless.


----------



## Blueshound24

erockg said:


> Fokus definitely have the edge over the EX for sound.  Three drivers to one dynamic.  I have the EX and believe it or not, repurchased the Fokus because I love their sound so much.  Incredibly powerful and detailed buds imo.  I don't have any experience with the HD models you refer to.  As you know, so hard to compare a TWS to cans.  Typing this while I'm trying to decide if I should get the B&W PX8 or the M&D MW75!!!  Ugh.



I am in love with the EX soundstage. I guess what I am trying to get at, with the EX, to me it feels like you can walk around the band stage between the band members, and the music just flows effortlessly. So just curious how much of that description also applies to the Fokus Pro, especially the effortless part?


----------



## dweaver (Nov 28, 2022)

@C_Lindbergh

The Linkbuds S is way to sensitive in my opinion. I prefer it stopping the music but kicks in way to easily especially if you dealing with a cold and need to clear your throat or work out in the gym and are a grunter like I am  .

The GB2P on the other hand I can cough a single cough, clear my throat or generally grunt without it kicking off so find it more useful in that regard. Both generally work the same when I really start talking in either stopping the music (Sony) or reducing the volume to a whisper (Samsung) and then piping in ambient sound.

Note Samsung has features to enhance ambient, those totally suck in that they make ambient annoying as heck by jacking up every sound to an unreasonable level. Just use the default ambient mode...


----------



## BooleanBones

erockg said:


> Typing this while I'm trying to decide if I should get the B&W PX8 or the M&D MW75!!!  Ugh.


Just pull the trigger on the PX8s, you know you need them more than anything right now.


----------



## erockg

BooleanBones said:


> Just pull the trigger on the PX8s, you know you need them more than anything right now.


What is worse than being the Devil?  Yup, that's you.  The Devil's Boss.

Ordered.  Got 20% using Rakuten!  Here I go again...


----------



## BooleanBones

erockg said:


> What is worse than being the Devil?  Yup, that's you.  The Devil's Boss.
> 
> Ordered.  Got 20% using Rakuten!  Here I go again...


Glad I can be of assistance. Do give them at least a week of listening, but I find them wonderful. For an added bonus, check them out at least once using straight usb-c to usb-c wired.


----------



## erockg

Blueshound24 said:


> I am in love with the EX soundstage. I guess what I am trying to get at, with the EX, to me it feels like you can walk around the band stage between the band members, and the music just flows effortlessly. So just curious how much of that description also applies to the Fokus Pro, especially the effortless part?


It's really hard to say.  You're talking about two of the best TWS right now.  IMO, the Fokus have the better sound, wonderful instrument separation and the IEM-like shell is gorgeous.  That said, they have nothing else.  Most of us, or at least a lot of us here, have both.  But we're addicts.  Noble knocked it out of the park with the Fokus Pro.  Hopefully, others chime in who have both for perspective.


----------



## alsorkin

*My Nuratrue Pro pre-order from Kickstart came today. Stay tuned for my first impressions.*


----------



## BooleanBones

erockg said:


> It's really hard to say.  You're talking about two of the best TWS right now.  IMO, the Fokus have the better sound, wonderful instrument separation and the IEM-like shell is gorgeous.  That said, they have nothing else.  Most of us, or at least a lot of us here, have both.  But we're addicts.  Noble knocked it out of the park with the Fokus Pro.  Hopefully, others chime in who have both for perspective.


I might get some time to charge my Fokus up for a refresher tonight, but I would agree with this off of memory.


----------



## TK33

erockg said:


> What is worse than being the Devil?  Yup, that's you.  The Devil's Boss.
> 
> Ordered.  Got 20% using Rakuten!  Here I go again...





BooleanBones said:


> Glad I can be of assistance. Do give them at least a week of listening, but I find them wonderful. For an added bonus, check them out at least once using straight usb-c to usb-c wired.


You guys are getting me in trouble now.  Thanks for the tip...eBates/Rakuten is awesome.  Have my PX8s incoming as well. Was hard to resist since it brings it back down closer to the initial launch price of $550 ($560 + some additional sales tax).  I amend my last post, guess PX8s will now be my sleeping headphones (probably use Px7 S2 for the office/commuting since I recently brought my Aonic 50s back home).


----------



## erockg

TK33 said:


> You guys are getting me in trouble now.  Thanks for the tip...eBates/Rakuten is awesome.  Have my PX8s incoming as well. Was hard to resist since it brings it back down closer to the initial launch price of $550 ($560 + some additional sales tax).  I amend my last post, guess PX8s will now be my sleeping headphones (probably use Px7 S2 for the office/commuting since I recently brought my Aonic 50s back home).


Ha ha!  Sorry.  As soon as I saw the Rakuten deal... ugh.  Thanks for reaffirming the money saved.   Smash cut to: "Hey, are those new headphones?  No no, I've haaaad those over ear headphones for a while now."

All this while I'm doing a firmware update on my Nuratrue Pro buds.


----------



## erockg

alsorkin said:


> *My Nuratrue Pro pre-order from Kickstart came today. Stay tuned for my first impressions.*


Updating mine now.  Fingers crossed!


----------



## BooleanBones

TK33 said:


> You guys are getting me in trouble now.  Thanks for the tip...eBates/Rakuten is awesome.  Have my PX8s incoming as well. Was hard to resist since it brings it back down closer to the initial launch price of $550 ($560 + some additional sales tax).  I amend my last post, guess PX8s will now be my sleeping headphones (probably use Px7 S2 for the office/commuting since I recently brought my Aonic 50s back home).


I am always glad to help folks spend their money. I feel less guilty spending my own that way


----------



## jant71

erockg said:


> Ha ha!  Sorry.  As soon as I saw the Rakuten deal... ugh.  Thanks for reaffirming the money saved.   Smash cut to: "Hey, are those new headphones?  No no, I've haaaad those over ear headphones for a while now."
> 
> All this while I'm doing a firmware update on my Nuratrue Pro buds.






Not too much longer and you can spend some more one the new Technics. The only real pic so far...
.


----------



## TK33

C_Lindbergh said:


> How does the Galaxy buds pro 2 voice detect feature works? Isn't pretty consistent and do you found it easy to have a quick convo and then back to ANC?
> 
> I thought that feature was a hit and miss on the Linkbuds S, pretty much useless.





dweaver said:


> @C_Lindbergh
> 
> The Linkbuds S is way to sensitive in my opinion. I prefer it stopping the music but kicks in way to easily especially if you dealing with a cold and need to clear your throat or work out in the gym and are a grunter like I am  .
> 
> ...



I was coming here to write the same after testing it out with my son who, of course, started talking to me as soon as I put the Galaxy Buds2 Pro in my ears but got distracted by the Px8.  

I don't have the Linkbuds S but I find the Linkbuds Speak to Chat feature too sensitive, although I do love the feature and never really had an issue with it not working.  Clearing my throat will usually stop my music as well on the Sony.  The Sony also plays an annoying tone (at least annoying to me) when the mode is engaged.  

On the Samsung Galaxy Buds2 Pro, this feature seems more refined.  Clearing my throat does not trigger anything (already better than Sony) and speaking triggered the Voice Detect mode without any tones (just a smooth transition to Voice Detect mode with ambient on and music volume lowered).  Default ambient sound was fine for me, although I do like that Samsung included the ability to adjust ambient levels if needed in Accessibility settings. I also like the ability to change the setting to 5, 10 or 15 seconds (I quickly realized 5 seconds is not long enough to get a response from my 5 year old).


----------



## BooleanBones

BooleanBones said:


> I might get some time to charge my Fokus up for a refresher tonight, but I would agree with this off of memory.


Great refresher, didn't need to charge them. The Fokus are hands down bigger/fuller/more flexible sound than the EX. I would say you will need to spend some quality EQ time tailoring to your desires as they are big bass out of the box. You have a personalized listening test (do in a quiet room) that gives you a re great starting point. They EQ on the Fokus is pretty dang good, so you can adjust and save as desired (also has some general presets) The Fokus reaches way louder volume levels over the EX if that is your thing. No way would you ever come close to Max on them without going to the ear doctor. That said, the EX features are much better since the Fokus are straight up sound.


----------



## BooleanBones

jant71 said:


> Not too much longer and you can spend some more one the new Technics. The only real pic so far...
> .


Looks like wireless charging this go around.


----------



## C_Lindbergh (Nov 28, 2022)

jant71 said:


> Not too much longer and you can spend some more one the new Technics. The only real pic so far...
> .


Yees! I knew in my heart that a new technics tws were coming soon! 😁

Can't wait!
Hopefully:

Improved Anc
Further refinements to SQ
Wireless Charging 
LE audio

1 of them is checked at least


----------



## dweaver

@TK33 I also adjusted the timer up from 5 seconds and just went to 30. I then just tap the buds if I know I am finished talking sooner.

I am glad the accessibility features are there to, under the right circumstances I imagine they are useful. Just found they affected the quality of ambient mode to much for normal use so warn people to be cautious when testing that feature out .


----------



## dweaver

I am excited about a new Technics but will be cautious this time and definitely like waiting till they go on sale .

I bought 2 TWS at full retail this year and thats 2 to many...

My wallet weeps at what I could have paid for the Linkbuds S and the GB2P. The savings would have paid for the Q45 at the very least...

This "hobby" requires discipline or my wife will / should kick my @$$.


----------



## chinmie

Caipirina said:


> I tried soooo many TWS for sleeping and while the 1more Comfobuds Z were ok for side sleeping, the battery lasted only 2.5h in the beginning and became less and less rather quickly
> 
> Then I realized that for sleeping, I am not too fuzzy about sound quality, since I listen mainly to binaural / meditation / sleep music ... and for that check amazon.fr for musicozy sleep headbands ... I got my first for as low as 10€ ... and I wear it every night now! Battery lasts over 12h, I don't feel anything when laying on the side ... just a thought, I wish I had tried those earlier, would have saved me some TWS money



My wife bought me that similar type sleeping band/eye cover and i really like it that i use it often, especially for taking power naps. 
The sound is actually quite okay, but my unit have a channel imbalance that bothered me to the point of not using it. 
I ended up taking the speakers off, and just use the sleeping band wifh the Soundpeats Air 3


----------



## erockg

jant71 said:


> Not too much longer and you can spend some more one the new Technics. The only real pic so far...
> .


Bring it on!  Although, their signature is like Audio-Technica to my ears.  I love them at first and then the honeymoon is overrrrrr.


----------



## dweaver

Lol I totally get the Audio Technica thing, and yes to a degree Technics as well. I actually have that with Sony, they sound good until you realize what is either over cooked or undercooked. AKG sound is the closest to my preference so long as it doesn't get to fatiguing. I remember buying the K712 Pro and loving the detail and clarity for about a week. Then noticed I was feeling fatigued all the time (felt like Tinnitus) and ended up having to sell them.


----------



## erockg

So far, so good with the Nuratrue Pro.  Well worth the Kickstarter early bird price.  I was a fan of the originals to a point.  All the additions to these thus far are quite welcome.  Really happy I can bring down the bass after I run their sound test.  Soundstage is pretty incredible with Spatial turned on.  Opens it up to a whole new level.  Need to play around with these some more.  Bass, sub-bass all excellent for hard rock/metal right now.


----------



## erockg

For those looking for an upgrade on your Shure TW2 adapters, this is an insane Cyber Monday price.

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1659725-REG

I just returned the second gen.  Couldn’t hear much of a difference that justified the price.


----------



## DigDub

Bose quiet comfort earbuds 2. Superb nosie cancelling and very natural ambient mode. Very comfortable. Sound quality is very enjoyable as well, with a consumer friendly sculpted sound signature that puts out a good amount of sub bass and bright highs without sounding muddy or sibilant. The touch controls works very well, full playback and volume controls are available on each bud. Hope Bose can make the single bud use of the left bud more seamless.


----------



## alsorkin

erockg said:


> So far, so good with the Nuratrue Pro.  Well worth the Kickstarter early bird price.  I was a fan of the originals to a point.  All the additions to these thus far are quite welcome.  Really happy I can bring down the bass after I run their sound test.  Soundstage is pretty incredible with Spatial turned on.  Opens it up to a whole new level.  Need to play around with these some more.  Bass, sub-bass all excellent for hard rock/metal right now.


Would be very interested in your settings that are found to be good to use.


----------



## regancipher

SynaestheticA said:


> Before you review these I suggest changing the tips to something more to your liking.
> 
> I wasn't super into the sound but just changed to Azla Crystals and wow. A world of difference. Massive bass and the clarity is improved one hundred fold


I spent the first day tip rolling with them, the Azla are the ones I've settled on funnily enough


----------



## Caipirina

regancipher said:


> That's exactly what I use and always what I recommend, life changing it isn't it?!


indeed, long search over ... gone are the nights of uncomfortable ear feelings, loud voices shouting 'BATTERY LOW' in the middle of the night ... or the side I am laying on getting positioned in a way that no sound goes through anymore ...


----------



## Caipirina

chinmie said:


> My wife bought me that similar type sleeping band/eye cover and i really like it that i use it often, especially for taking power naps.
> The sound is actually quite okay, but my unit have a channel imbalance that bothered me to the point of not using it.
> I ended up taking the speakers off, and just use the sleeping band wifh the Soundpeats Air 3


During the summer I used amazon.de 's easy return feature to test out several different ones .. it is not easy to pin point by description which version of the Musicozy one ends up getting (there was one guy in the reviews who did a deep dive on that topic) ... my first one had slimmer speaker modules, but those were unpadded and slightly uncomfortable (returned), the next were thicker, but padded, and those are my keepers, these 2 are not meant to cover the eyes, if I do so, the speaker parts go too low .. so, when I saw a specific eyemask version in the warehouse deal section, I got that one as well  And lastly I tried a super cheap version from AliExpress for 3.59$ which is ok, bit more brassy in sound, the headband is actually a nice neoprene kinda feel stuff, but there is NO way to remove the electronics to wash the headband .. so I use that one sparingly


----------



## webvan

Jaybird Vista 2 and Jabra 7 Pro came in last week, as part of my search for the best running TWS. 

The Jabra are a bust, don't stay in my ears, sound is bland and ANC weak. Didn't even try running with the them given the poor fit. Almost as bad as the XM3.

The Jaybird don't have these problems apart from the ANC that's even worse, i.e. useless! 
Thanks to the winged tip design they fit very securely and the runner's thud is quite moderate, best I've heard from isolating TWS with the Bomaker SiFi 2. It's there (unlike what some YT comments claim) but acceptable. The (super weak) ANC can't be used while running as it amplifies wind noise but you can go passive. There's a wind noise reduction option for the Aware mode but it's not very effective and generates crackling noises. Got them on a discount but at 150€ they're still not very good value for money given their useless ANC.


----------



## newworld666 (Nov 29, 2022)

Caipirina said:


> I tried soooo many TWS for sleeping and while the 1more Comfobuds Z were ok for side sleeping, the battery lasted only 2.5h in the beginning and became less and less rather quickly
> 
> Then I realized that for sleeping, I am not too fuzzy about sound quality, since I listen mainly to binaural / meditation / sleep music ... and for that check amazon.fr for musicozy sleep headbands ... I got my first for as low as 10€ ... and I wear it every night now! Battery lasts over 12h, I don't feel anything when laying on the side ... just a thought, I wish I had tried those earlier, would have saved me some TWS money



Till now I didn't want to use a hot headband for sleeping.. and I was afraid that the drivers would be still thick and uncomfortable to sleep on the side on them...
As they are really cheap, I think I will probably give a try..
Actually, I use some IEM for many years now for sleeping and some are really comfortable enough for sleeping with a convincing sound quality ( which I would like to keep for the first hour when I usually read some books in my bed) ...

Based on my experience, I would classify my sleeping IEMs like this as my preferred order as sleeping IEM :

1) Soundmagic E11C (40€) + iFi Go blu, this amazing IEM are so cheap, with the proper tips SQ is very very good and  they disappears almost completely in the ears .. We don't feel them at all when sleeping on the side.. they provide more than 11 hours playing time on one charge in LDAC mode (I could never drain completely the battery till now)..

2) Beyerdynamic Xelento (1000€) + FIIO BTR7,  only max 7 hours playing time, they are very comfortable for sleeping on the side, they are much more expansive, but with a very nice sound quality. Unfortunately the Xelento is incompatible at low level volume with the iFi Go Blu in "balanced mode" with a permanent little background hiss (no issue in unbalanced mode).

3) Sennheiser IE600/IE900 (600/1600€) + iFi Go blu more than 12 hours playing time, perfect sound quality, very comfortable too for sleeping on the side.. but the MMCX connector is definitely a real bull/garbage connector and I broke almost all my IEMs with MMCX (even IER 1ZR, Vision Ears EXT)=> I will never buy again IEM a mmcx connectors, though only the Xelento could survive till now)...

4) Jabra Elite 7 Pro (130€) rather comfortable to sleep on the side though it depends on the position in the ears which can hurt a bit sometimes in the middle of the night and need to reposition the driver in the ear, a very good/impressive sound quality with more than 10 hours playing time (I would say 11h or more available, as I never drained fully the battery till now, I always had at least 30% left).

5) nearly on par with Elite 7 ..... the Samsung Galaxy Buds2 pro & Galaxy Buds pro (a little bit bigger) ... 150/200€ they are rather comfortable to sleep though it depends on the position in the ears which can hurt a bit sometimes in the middle of the night and need to reposition a driver in the ear, of course a very good sound quality for Samsung smartphone users.. less than 8 hours playing time AAC codec + without ANC (which can be too short for the end of the evening plus a full night)


----------



## newworld666

dj24 said:


> Tried the Elite 7 pro once before and liked them overall before I returned them.  Reason- channel imbalance where one earbud was draining much faster and dying much quicker compared to the other.  Any issues with yours?



No issue at all with mine.. though I really enjoyed them the best with the Xelento large Tips (very comfortable to sleep aside like this).. The left driver is draining a bit faster then the the right one, but I can use both of them more than 10 hours and probably 11 to 12 at my volume level (but I never needed such long time till now). No imbalance and an impressive sound as AAC codec only and no LDAC.


----------



## erockg

alsorkin said:


> Would be very interested in your settings that are found to be good to use.


I don't think there's much to share because my Nura profile would be different than yours.  I turn my immersion all the way up, then I EQ'd down the bass and tweaked a few other EQ sections.  Tap settings are really up to you.  I'm really liking the buds.  Soundstage is really wide.  Love it.


----------



## SynaestheticA

Do y'all consider (in general) that a wider sound stage = better sounding tws? 

What exceptions would there be to this?

Who would have the widest soundstage?


----------



## Picopala

I have just setup my Wireless IEMS. I am using a Shure Wireless 2  with an IKKO 10H. I am using a 2PIN to MMCX conector (but i will change for a straight one, not a curvy one)
For my EDM experience, the sound looks excellent and i can even reenforce the subbass of the IKKO 10H, who is already a bassy bird with the TWS2 equalizer. 
The whole set up is quite comfortable (although I have to try the straight adapter). The sub bass is really excellent and the I have used as well the  EQ to balance the sound on the mids and on treble on the IKKO. 
Now, I was just wondering if a 2 pin conector wireless adaptor wouldn't be better than the 2TWS. Any suggestion apart from the FIIO 5 adapter ?


----------



## C_Lindbergh

Picopala said:


> I have just setup my Wireless IEMS. I am using a Shure Wireless 2  with an IKKO 10H. I am using a 2PIN to MMCX conector (but i will change for a straight one, not a curvy one)
> For my EDM experience, the sound looks excellent and i can even reenforce the subbass of the IKKO 10H, who is already a bassy bird with the TWS2 equalizer.
> The whole set up is quite comfortable (although I have to try the straight adapter). The sub bass is really excellent and the I have used as well the  EQ to balance the sound on the mids and on treble on the IKKO.
> Now, I was just wondering if a 2 pin conector wireless adaptor wouldn't be better than the 2TWS. Any suggestion apart from the FIIO 5 adapter ?



Really hasn't been any new product in the TWS adapter market since the UTWS5 I'm afraid, hopefully Shure releases their gen 3 next yet!


----------



## erockg

Picopala said:


> I have just setup my Wireless IEMS. I am using a Shure Wireless 2  with an IKKO 10H. I am using a 2PIN to MMCX conector (but i will change for a straight one, not a curvy one)
> For my EDM experience, the sound looks excellent and i can even reenforce the subbass of the IKKO 10H, who is already a bassy bird with the TWS2 equalizer.
> The whole set up is quite comfortable (although I have to try the straight adapter). The sub bass is really excellent and the I have used as well the  EQ to balance the sound on the mids and on treble on the IKKO.
> Now, I was just wondering if a 2 pin conector wireless adaptor wouldn't be better than the 2TWS. Any suggestion apart from the FIIO 5 adapter ?


I've used the IKKO with the Shure TW2 before on an iPhone.  Few differences on a UTWS5.  You'll get more power, but no EQ with the FiiO and the FiiO app is terrible, sometimes never even connects.  It's frustrating.  Shure TW2 adapters work flawlessly, no bugs.  The Fiio are great, and do fit the IKKO, but unless you have an Android phone and can EQ you'll have to stick with the stock sound.  So, personally, I think you have the better adapter.  I have both and prefer the Shure TW2.


----------



## mikp

helmutcheese said:


> They are in stock on Amazon US and listed but out of stock on UK.


The sound peats ldac should come to ali next week.


----------



## Tommy C

erockg said:


> For those looking for an upgrade on your Shure TW2 adapters, this is an insane Cyber Monday price.
> 
> https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1659725-REG
> 
> I just returned the second gen.  Couldn’t hear much of a difference that justified the price.


How much was the sale price? Looks like it’s back to regular price sadly.


----------



## BooleanBones

Tommy C said:


> How much was the sale price? Looks like it’s back to regular price sadly.


It was 499$


----------



## erockg

BooleanBones said:


> It was 499$





Tommy C said:


> How much was the sale price? Looks like it’s back to regular price sadly.


Yeah, $499 until midnight EST for Cyber Monday.  Insane.


----------



## erockg

BooleanBones said:


> It was 499$


PX8 in hand.  Wow!  Can't believe they got here so fast.  Just opened.  Gorgeous.


----------



## Tommy C

erockg said:


> Yeah, $499 until midnight EST for Cyber Monday.  Insane.


Dang. Great deal… missed the train on that one.


----------



## BooleanBones

erockg said:


> PX8 in hand.  Wow!  Can't believe they got here so fast.  Just opened.  Gorgeous.


hope you enjoy them as much as I do. super comfy to boot.


----------



## migueneitor

Hey there! Does anybody have any experience connecting their earbuds to a Garmin watch? I used to run all the time with my FIIL T1X with no issues until they broke recently (RIP, they were great). I just bought a pair of Space A40 to replace them and they work great with my phone and laptop, but whenever I try to use them with my watch, the playback issues are unbearable. I've tried changing from noise canceling to normal, from LDAC to AAC... nothing works. Any ideas before I try to return them? Because I otherwise love these.


----------



## Picopala (Nov 29, 2022)

erockg said:


> I've used the IKKO with the Shure TW2 before on an iPhone.  Few differences on a UTWS5.  You'll get more power, but no EQ with the FiiO and the FiiO app is terrible, sometimes never even connects.  It's frustrating.  Shure TW2 adapters work flawlessly, no bugs.  The Fiio are great, and do fit the IKKO, but unless you have an Android phone and can EQ you'll have to stick with the stock sound.  So, personally, I think you have the better adapter.  I have both and prefer the Shure TW2.


Thanks for the advice. Is a straight adapter  better than a bent one ?


----------



## erockg

Picopala said:


> Thanks for the advice. Is a straight adapter  better than a bent one ?


For the IKKO, I used a straight one, not bent, on the Shure TW2.  Never tried the bent one.  There are mini ones, that's what I have:  https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0BLN4YLRP?psc=1&ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_product_details


----------



## TK33

erockg said:


> PX8 in hand.  Wow!  Can't believe they got here so fast.  Just opened.  Gorgeous.


Awesome! Which one did you get? Pretty jealous right now.  I ordered black and immediately second-guessed my decision but decided black is more practical.  Mine literally shipped from CA five minutes ago as I was writing this so hopefully it makes it to the east coast this week (explains how yours arrived so quickly).  

I told my wife to try my Px7 S2 to see if she liked them but she found them heavy and uncomfortable and preferred the fit of her QC35 IIs better (she uses for media consumption and not music) so I guess I will end up using both Px7 S2 and Px8.  

Speaking of B&W, I thought someone had posted about a PI7 S2 a while back.  Anyone hear anything recently? Reddit rumor mill seems to be all over the place (November 2022 to sometime in 2023). Would be nice if B&W throws in an EQ for their TWS.  If the Px7 S2 and Px8 didn't have an EQ, I don't think I would have bought them.  Lack of EQ was one of the reasons I sold my PI7 as well.


----------



## erockg

TK33 said:


> Awesome! Which one did you get? Pretty jealous right now.  I ordered black and immediately second-guessed my decision but decided black is more practical.  Mine literally shipped from CA five minutes ago as I was writing this so hopefully it makes it to the east coast this week (explains how yours arrived so quickly).
> 
> I told my wife to try my Px7 S2 to see if she liked them but she found them heavy and uncomfortable and preferred the fit of her QC35 IIs better (she uses for media consumption and not music) so I guess I will end up using both Px7 S2 and Px8.
> 
> Speaking of B&W, I thought someone had posted about a PI7 S2 a while back.  Anyone hear anything recently? Reddit rumor mill seems to be all over the place (November 2022 to sometime in 2023). Would be nice if B&W throws in an EQ for their TWS.  If the Px7 S2 and Px8 didn't have an EQ, I don't think I would have bought them.  Lack of EQ was one of the reasons I sold my PI7 as well.


I've had my PX8 on for 4 hours straight, no issues with fit or discomfort.  Hopefully that lasts!  I went with black for sure.  Matches all my gear.  Yes, they ship here in CA, so I was lucky.  I bet you get them before the end of the week.  B&W is great with shipping.  I flipped my PX7 S2s on eBay once the PX8 were announced.  They held their value pretty well.  

The PI7 S2 have been on the FCC website for a while now.  I thought they'd come out before the holidays but guess not   I'll def be buying them.  https://fccid.io/2ACIX-PI7R/Label/Label-5982987


----------



## TK33

erockg said:


> I've had my PX8 on for 4 hours straight, no issues with fit or discomfort.  Hopefully that lasts!  I went with black for sure.  Matches all my gear.  Yes, they ship here in CA, so I was lucky.  I bet you get them before the end of the week.  B&W is great with shipping.  I flipped my PX7 S2s on eBay once the PX8 were announced.  They held their value pretty well.
> 
> The PI7 S2 have been on the FCC website for a while now.  I thought they'd come out before the holidays but guess not  I'll def be buying them. https://fccid.io/2ACIX-PI7R/Label/Label-5982987


Thanks. Yes, that FCC website was what I was thinking of. Thought PI7 S2s would be out by now as well but can't complain about Px8s I guess.  I plan on keeping both. One will be for commuting and use at the office and the other for home (I also use beadphones to sleep at night). 

I actually only got an alert from FedEx (scheduled delivery for Friday) and no shipping email from B&W yet.  B&W's website doesnt even show as shipped (still says "Confirmed").  My guess is their deal was pretty popular and they ate behind.  I will need to be patient...been spoiled recently by Amazon and Best Buy and their free same day delivery.


----------



## helmutcheese (Nov 29, 2022)

I


mikp said:


> The sound peats ldac should come to ali next week.


I ordered from Amazon US (Del by the 6th Dec) then cancelled a few hours later as I cannot get a seal on the older Mini Pro's.

I bought them at launch and tried them back then, then I threw them in a drawer, so I tried them that night I ordered the new ones, and I just cannot get any kind of seal with any of my own tips, so sound was poor ANC was poor, so was passive as if nothing in my ears.

 Added to if you lie down with them, they start to play/pause/enter pairing mode/power off/on etc so not suitable for sleep.

The new LDAC ones did look like they had oval nozzles in one photo but probably just the angle and exactly the same as the older Mini Pro's


----------



## alsorkin

erockg said:


> I don't think there's much to share because my Nura profile would be different than yours.  I turn my immersion all the way up, then I EQ'd down the bass and tweaked a few other EQ sections.  Tap settings are really up to you.  I'm really liking the buds.  Soundstage is really wide.  Love it.


Really appreciate your sharing this.


----------



## alsorkin

erockg said:


> I don't think there's much to share because my Nura profile would be different than yours.  I turn my immersion all the way up, then I EQ'd down the bass and tweaked a few other EQ sections.  Tap settings are really up to you.  I'm really liking the buds.  Soundstage is really wide.  Love it.


I am using the large silicone tips. A bit difficult to seat right. Great sounding with AptX Adaptive codec on a Snapdragon Sound certified Moto cellphone streaming Tidal Master tracks.


----------



## mikp

helmutcheese said:


> I
> 
> I ordered from Amazon US (Del by the 6th Dec) then cancelled a few hours later as I cannot get a seal on the older Mini Pro's.
> 
> ...


Thanks. Not really read any good things about the sound quality, was just interested for ldac on the "cheap". Think I will skip them.


----------



## Caipirina

migueneitor said:


> Hey there! Does anybody have any experience connecting their earbuds to a Garmin watch? I used to run all the time with my FIIL T1X with no issues until they broke recently (RIP, they were great). I just bought a pair of Space A40 to replace them and they work great with my phone and laptop, but whenever I try to use them with my watch, the playback issues are unbearable. I've tried changing from noise canceling to normal, from LDAC to AAC... nothing works. Any ideas before I try to return them? Because I otherwise love these.


Hola  
You know, I know that my Garmin can do music, but I never bothered to check it out ... until now, your post motivated me  
But first I had to get music onto it ... it says I need to use Garmin Express, so I get that updated (not used in years), have to dig up login credentials from my browser and then I find that the Garmin connects like an Android device to my Mac, so I could move files just like this ... from Garmin Express it seems to be a pain and ONLY offers music from my iTunes library, which I don't use .. 
Anyways ,.. now to the frustrating / interesting part ... I quickly tried 2 TWS which I know by heart how to put in pairing mode: the Bose Earbuds 1 and the Sony XM4 ... and NEITHER was recognized by that dang watch AT ALL ...    
I will try some more later and see what other issues this could be based on ... but that was rather frustrating ... 

Since I always run with phone on me (and apple watch, which can als play music), i never needed my Garmin to be the music player ... but now I want to find out


----------



## migueneitor

> Hola
> You know, I know that my Garmin can do music, but I never bothered to check it out ... until now, your post motivated me
> But first I had to get music onto it ... it says I need to use Garmin Express, so I get that updated (not used in years), have to dig up login credentials from my browser and then I find that the Garmin connects like an Android device to my Mac, so I could move files just like this ... from Garmin Express it seems to be a pain and ONLY offers music from my iTunes library, which I don't use ..


Thanks for taking the time to try it out. Mine has Spotify integration directly on the watch (Garmin Venu 2), so I don't really bother with Garmin Express.


> Anyways ,.. now to the frustrating / interesting part ... I quickly tried 2 TWS which I know by heart how to put in pairing mode: the Bose Earbuds 1 and the Sony XM4 ... and NEITHER was recognized by that dang watch AT ALL ...
> I will try some more later and see what other issues this could be based on ... but that was rather frustrating ...
> Since I always run with phone on me (and apple watch, which can als play music), i never needed my Garmin to be the music player ... but now I want to find out


That's pretty strange that they wouldn't even connect. Maybe reboot the watch? I've been looking into the topic and there are plenty of threads talking about this on the Garmin forums. Nobody has found a satisfying solution, AFAIK.


----------



## llmgtab

Is anyone using aftermarket tips with the ATH-TWX9? I am having trouble getting a good seal. I was able to get a good enough seal to enjoy the music, but noise canceling is sub-par unless I press them in manually. Not even as good as the Galaxy bud 2.

I am tempted to try and return and go with the GB2Pro - as they just dropped the price again. But the Buds 2 are already slightly too large so they may not work for me.


----------



## Ilomaenkimi

webreaper said:


> *So the question is, are we at the point yet where it's feasible to go for fully-wireless IEM buds*. There seem to be a lot of devices out there which very nearly cut the mustard, but all so far seem to have caveats. But there's also some interesting kit being released in the next few weeks, and I'm wondering whether anyone has experienced them and can help encourage me to take the plunge.


In my opinion now we are at that point, when Airpods pro 2 has been out for a while.
Used them about 2 weeks now and i'm still amazed what Apple has done with these.


----------



## helmutcheese

Still not as good as wired esp. Apple and AAC @ 250k, it is more good enough and convenience, they says it is about 80% of wired and aptX Lossless claims to make it 100% the same.


----------



## Ilomaenkimi

helmutcheese said:


> Still not as good as wired esp. Apple and AAC @ 250k, it is more good enough and convenience, they says it is about 80% of wired and aptX Lossless claims to make it 100% the same.


I think i can't hear difference between lossless and AAC. As in Apple environment. In blindtest.


----------



## mainguy

helmutcheese said:


> Still not as good as wired esp. Apple and AAC @ 250k, it is more good enough and convenience, they says it is about 80% of wired and aptX Lossless claims to make it 100% the same.


Oh ofc, wired is still well ahead. When I pop my 7hz timeless in I notice a huge difference from the app2 pro.

But for what they are im loving them


----------



## subguy812

llmgtab said:


> Is anyone using aftermarket tips with the ATH-TWX9? I am having trouble getting a good seal. I was able to get a good enough seal to enjoy the music, but noise canceling is sub-par unless I press them in manually. Not even as good as the Galaxy bud 2.
> 
> I am tempted to try and return and go with the GB2Pro - as they just dropped the price again. But the Buds 2 are already slightly too large so they may not work for me.


I am a little surprised that none of the included tips work. I have large earholes and use the large deep tips and get a seal, where as the other didn't seal as well. They were usable but not ideal.


----------



## llmgtab

subguy812 said:


> I am a little surprised that none of the included tips work. I have large earholes and use the large deep tips and get a seal, where as the other didn't seal as well. They were usable but not ideal.


They do sound great so I think the noise canceling does not work for me. My office has loud air conditioning noise right above me and all my cheaper buds pretty much cancel that out. I have tried all the options and don't notice any difference


----------



## helmutcheese

Ilomaenkimi said:


> I think i can't hear difference between lossless and AAC. As in Apple environment. In blindtest.


I have really good hearing (more a curse than anything else) and ripping a CD to Flac and playing via Wired head/earphone sounds far better than over Bluetooth which for now cannot be lossless (unless using brand new aptX Lossless) even if Hi-Res files.


----------



## erockg

alsorkin said:


> I am using the large silicone tips. A bit difficult to seat right. Great sounding with AptX Adaptive codec on a Snapdragon Sound certified Moto cellphone streaming Tidal Master tracks.


Try some aftermarket tips. I'm using Azla tips and/or Spinfits.


----------



## alsorkin

erockg said:


> Try some aftermarket tips. I'm using Azla tips and/o





erockg said:


> I am having better results with the Beyerdynamics Xelento silicone tips that I am trying. They come with much larger oval shaped tips that appear to match the oval Nuratrue Pro shape. j


----------



## FYLegend

I'm enjoying the Linkbuds S overall but find it hard to justify even the 170$ CAD sale price. The default sound is dark/warm reminds me of the SoundPeats T2 and TaoTronics which cost half the price. Bass is not muddy but could be tighter and there is a bit of a tinny mid-to-treble peak, soundstage has good layering but feels a tad narrow/intimate. Controls are incomplete lacking proper customizability. I feel like I'm mainly paying for ANC which is better than anything I've tried before but not by a whole lot, and I still don't know how it stacks up to the 1000XM4. The ANC is overall superior to the Liberty 3 Pro which struggles with "diffused" sounds like fan noise. I no longer have it for comparison but I recall the Galaxy Buds 2 has a similarly strong ANC which doesn't diffuse/amplify such sounds either.

It's only been 4 days and I've already charged the case 3 times, though I haven't topped it all up because I'm usually using the earbuds while charging the case. Now after charging the buds and case overnight, the case seems to retain more capacity. On my commute today LDAC connectivity was pretty disappointing as I kept experiencing dropouts. Turning it off seemed to greatly reduce it but I found it odd LDAC connectivity seemed better a few days prior.

Going back to the Liberty 3 Pro I feel like it sounds sibilant at first but I then think I'm missing a of raw details on the Linkbuds S. As for ANC I think the opposite and can't believe how "bad" it is compared to the Linkbuds S.



migueneitor said:


> Hey there! Does anybody have any experience connecting their earbuds to a Garmin watch? I used to run all the time with my FIIL T1X with no issues until they broke recently (RIP, they were great). I just bought a pair of Space A40 to replace them and they work great with my phone and laptop, but whenever I try to use them with my watch, the playback issues are unbearable. I've tried changing from noise canceling to normal, from LDAC to AAC... nothing works. Any ideas before I try to return them? Because I otherwise love these.


Possibly a different issue but my friend has an ASUS ROG Phone and recently picked up the Space A40 and unfortunately was noticing some serious dropouts. He was able to get an exchange which still had the same issue but worked fine with a laptop.


----------



## jant71

Aviot with a new flagship...







Yet another that was aptX, adaptive, and even snapdragon sound models but now they drop Qualcomm and only have SBC/AAC/LDAC. Do we know what the reason is exactly. Just the $$$ they charge?, chip supply issues and makers don't want to wait? An LDAC boom here though it seems as much a non-Qualcomm thing.

Hybrid ANC, 10mm dynamic + planar, and a more familiar in-er monitor shape. 39,600Y or $290 as of today. Due on 12/23
https://aviot-jp.translate.goog/press/te-z1pnk/?_x_tr_sl=auto&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en-US


----------



## helmutcheese (Dec 1, 2022)

Not sure as the LDAC licence used to have the highest price tag, like most it is a larger lump sum then a small amount per device.

Assume (as not stated) that the 7 hour is AAC @50% Vol so not great if you use LDAC and no doubt a higher volume may be needed outside (esp as the look partly open/vented) depending how loud these are overall.

Even SoundPeats are using LDAC now so it may have come down in price due to aptX adaptive and just be the latest "in fashion" thing.


----------



## jant71 (Dec 1, 2022)

helmutcheese said:


> Not sure as the LDAC licence used to have the highest price tag, like most it is a larger lump sum then a small amount per device.
> 
> Assume (as not stated) that the 7 hour is AAC @50% Vol so not great if you use LDAC and no doubt a higher volume may be needed outside (esp as lock parly open/vented) depending how loud these are overall.


That would be the rub. I would assume they power them right and the cost is battery life. Certainly a model like this would not be a blind buy. You have to hear they gave enough headroom for real world use. Aviot also releasing another dual driver with dynamic and armature which has 18 hours per charge and 60 hours total so the drop to 7 and 18 without both proper amplification and volume headroom would be a real f-up.


----------



## helmutcheese

Can you link to the 2nd model please?


----------



## jant71

helmutcheese said:


> Can you link to the 2nd model please?


https://aviot.jp/product/te-bd11tr/


----------



## helmutcheese

A touch stingy on the Codecs, AAC/SBC only.


----------



## tan1415 (Dec 1, 2022)

tan1415 said:


> Just when I thought I was out, they pulled me back in.
> 
> Damn my needs.it has been literally years since I was on Headfi.
> 
> ...



Hi All,

So Far have received the Melomania and the Buds live.

Melomania was an early favorite.
Sound is great. But the bass and mid bass is lacking compared with the Live. Also more closed in sound.  The Melomania is really easy in use. From the case, the app to the buttons on the earbuds. Updates all working perfectly.
Downside was fit and feel when I wear the buds. When wearing a long time it starts to hurt.
Also initial connection was pretty crappy experience.
Basically which ever bud you take out from the case is the one to connect with your phone. The other will connect through the other bud. But when you take out the other one..you need to connect that to with your phone.
Furthermore in the beginning had to reset because it kept switching connections and as consequence turned itself off.

The Samsung Buds live was a late addition after reading Scabir reviews. It really intrigued me and the special offer from Samsung at 49€ made it fit my price range.
It was fiddly at first. The sound was horrendous with bloated bass. After reading and watching videos and experimenting with attachments and fit. The Lives blew me away.
I was shocked how much bass, mid bass it was able to produce. Much more then the Melomania. Also the sound is much more expansive.
 But what really makes me fall in love is the design. It’s a pure earbud. Nothing to fit into my ear canal. Also it’s ultra comfy when you got it right. Don’t feel wearing it at all. Amazing.

Now the downside…the app doesn’t work. I can’t seem to download any updates. That sucks. I am returning this and getting a replacement… but if it doesn’t work with my iPhone it’s not for me. Also once you use the Melomania app the Samsung Buds app really is crappy for such a big name company. Also the buds are so fit sensitive, when moved out of sync has direct impact on sound.
No equalizer like in melomania. The choice of eq settings is not really useful.
Also the buds are touch and not a clickable button. What a hassle to get it to work. Also it just has 3 possible settings. The Melomania has at least double the options.
The ANC is a total joke. Didn’t notice anything.

Tbh this is a HUGE pass if it was still retailed at 169z but at 49€ it’s quite amazing. The sound and the comfinesss are really too notch.

Waiting on the Sony WF c500 and the JBl tune 230.

The jabra elite 4 will be returned. 69€ is just to much for me right now.


----------



## DigDub

DigDub said:


> Bose quiet comfort earbuds 2. Superb nosie cancelling and very natural ambient mode. Very comfortable. Sound quality is very enjoyable as well, with a consumer friendly sculpted sound signature that puts out a good amount of sub bass and bright highs without sounding muddy or sibilant. The touch controls works very well, full playback and volume controls are available on each bud. Hope Bose can make the single bud use of the left bud more seamless.


The way Bose enables the left earbud use is weird. Put both buds in the case, without closing the lid, take out the left earbud and it will connect to the phone. The right bud will always act as the master even when it is charging in the case with the lid closed, the left bud will always be the slave. I found this out by chance when I had the left bud in use and walked away from the case with the right bud charging inside. The signal broke up even though I had my phone with me, this means the right bud is still acting as a master transmitting signal to the left bud even though it's charging inside the case.


----------



## Juturna

tan1415 said:


> Hi All,
> 
> So Far have received the Melomania and the Buds live.
> 
> ...


Basically almost none of the newer Galaxy Buds that came out in the last 2-3 years work with the iPhone app at all, but I think the Live is supposed to b Kinda blows that they did that...  But yeah, I also bought the Buds Live quite recently, and I feel like they sound pretty good, but not great. Like 5/10 for sound, but would still rate them higher than that because of the fit and overall experience with them. They're not exactly the buds you buy to get the best sound possible either, at least in my opinion. 
I disagree that the EQ settings aren't useful, they change the sound by quite a bit. It helps that I'm on Android and can use Wavelet too for that matter, so that makes it easier to make them sound good. But a true graphic eq in the app or something would be good.


----------



## regancipher

helmutcheese said:


> Not sure as the LDAC licence used to have the highest price tag, like most it is a larger lump sum then a small amount per device.
> 
> Assume (as not stated) that the 7 hour is AAC @50% Vol so not great if you use LDAC and no doubt a higher volume may be needed outside (esp as the look partly open/vented) depending how loud these are overall.
> 
> Even SoundPeats are using LDAC now so it may have come down in price due to aptX adaptive and just be the latest "in fashion" thing.


I think for Soundpeats it's the opportunity to use a good value chipset and appeal to a wider market, since they have both the Deluxe and HS in their current portfolio.

Pixel owners, for example, can't even enjoy the benefit of aptx-adaptive, and I'm sure it's the same for some Mediatek device owners. With one very small modification they can appeal to both the Qualcomm and non-Qualcomm owners simultaneously (with the Deluxe and Deluxe HS respectively) so it's another opportunity for more sales with relatively low sunk costs.

For Aviot and some of the others that aren't running the two simultaneous chipsets, who knows


----------



## tan1415

Juturna said:


> Basically almost none of the newer Galaxy Buds that came out in the last 2-3 years work with the iPhone app at all, but I think the Live is supposed to b Kinda blows that they did that...  But yeah, I also bought the Buds Live quite recently, and I feel like they sound pretty good, but not great. Like 5/10 for sound, but would still rate them higher than that because of the fit and overall experience with them. They're not exactly the buds you buy to get the best sound possible either, at least in my opinion.
> I disagree that the EQ settings aren't useful, they change the sound by quite a bit. It helps that I'm on Android and can use Wavelet too for that matter, so that makes it easier to make them sound good. But a true graphic eq in the app or something would be good.


Thanks for the info. Let’s hope the next Buds live will be able to update properly.

I am looking at 50€ price range specifically and don’t want to really deviate from it to keep it fair. I know once I start heading to higher prices everything will be better. For my usage 50€ is the sweet spot for my budget it seems.

Which buds has better sound? I mean the apple pods 3 are 170€ and people say Live is betetrbsoundingz


----------



## TK33

tan1415 said:


> Thanks for the info. Let’s hope the next Buds live will be able to update properly.
> 
> I am looking at 50€ price range specifically and don’t want to really deviate from it to keep it fair. I know once I start heading to higher prices everything will be better. For my usage 50€ is the sweet spot for my budget it seems.
> 
> Which buds has better sound? I mean the apple pods 3 are 170€ and people say Live is betetrbsoundingz


Regarding updates, I have had two sets of Bud Live since launch (just traded one in for the Buds2 Pro) and I have not had any issues updating firmware on both, even when I did not have a Samsun phone.  As @Juturna said, this may be an IOS specific issue.  I dont have any IOS devices so probably not helpful here.  Perhaps you can borrow an android phone from someone and try? If not, I would consider exchanging or contacting Samsung.  Their warranty process was pretty easy.


----------



## bladefd

regancipher said:


> I think for Soundpeats it's the opportunity to use a good value chipset and appeal to a wider market, since they have both the Deluxe and HS in their current portfolio.
> 
> Pixel owners, for example, can't even enjoy the benefit of aptx-adaptive, and I'm sure it's the same for some Mediatek device owners. With one very small modification they can appeal to both the Qualcomm and non-Qualcomm owners simultaneously (with the Deluxe and Deluxe HS respectively) so it's another opportunity for more sales with relatively low sunk costs.
> 
> For Aviot and some of the others that aren't running the two simultaneous chipsets, who knows


I don't think I'm going to ever buy another pixel due to the limitations. It has the hardware/chipset capabilities for audio but for some reason they are limiting things like aptx on the phone. I don't even know if Google has customer service you can just call for support. There seems to be no link between the customer and Google so you are at their mercy for additions.


----------



## Ghisy

What is this Pixel nonsense? I have a Pixel 7 Pro and I can see aptx and aptx HD for Bluetooth audio. No adaptive though.

Personally, I don't care because I don't use my phone for music.


----------



## bladefd

Google pixel does not support tws mode either.. At least my pixel 3 does not. I don't know about latest pixels.






With pixel, you get the left side. No simultaneous connection like on the right side even though the hardware supports it.


----------



## cresny

bladefd said:


> I don't think I'm going to ever buy another pixel due to the limitations. It has the hardware/chipset capabilities for audio but for some reason they are limiting things like aptx on the phone. I don't even know if Google has customer service you can just call for support. There seems to be no link between the customer and Google so you are at their mercy for additions.


I use both Aptx HD and LDAC on my Pixel 7 Pro. As for Bluetooth connectivity, I do know that I can use either left or right ATH-TWX9 with the other in the case. When I put both on I get each saying headphone connected nearly simultaneously.


----------



## regancipher

Pixel doesn't support aptx-adaptive, but that's the same for all non-Qualcomm phones. Only reason I mentioned Pixel specifically is because the other brands with high market share or fast growth do at least have some Qualcomm-based models in their portfolio (excluding Apple, obviously), so for the likes of Soundpeats it might make sense to offer both Qualcomm (aptX-adaptive) and Smartlink/Wuqi (LDAC) variants (like with the HS & Deluxe models) to appeal to a wider audience


----------



## bladefd

cresny said:


> I use both Aptx HD and LDAC on my Pixel 7 Pro. As for Bluetooth connectivity, I do know that I can use either left or right ATH-TWX9 with the other in the case. When I put both on I get each saying headphone connected nearly simultaneously.


On Pixel 3, it's not a simultaneous connection AFAIK. Phone connects to either the left or right but not both at the same time. One earbud piggybacks off the other, and it switches back and forth to maintain battery life.


----------



## dweaver (Dec 3, 2022)

OK, I. All the time in this thread I rarely see JBL products discussed and don't remember seeing the Tune130NC. Did I just miss it?

Anyway at the risk of having my wife having me committed I picked up a pair these up since they were only $75 and holy crap, they do not sound like a $75 TWS or IEM for that matter!

They have huge bass out of the box but the EQ can tame it very well if desired. I am enjoying the hell out how natural they sound and how expansive and holographic the sound stage is. Piano's, Cello's, and guitars sound just amazing. I am also really happy how they produce drum kit sounds.

Jazz from artist like Patricia Barber sound sublime as does sound tracks from Hans Zimmer. Classic rock like Led Zeppelin and Pink Floyd sound good as well. The song Zombie by Nellie Mckay which has alot of 3D vocals and instruments that wow when they are properly represented are handled very well by this TWS. Anything that can go really deep is sub wooferish that can be felt and yet mids and highs can be present without being overwhelmed.

If a person's main requirement is sound quality these are amazing for $75 and the EQ actually seems very responsive and effective and highly customizable.

The ANC and Ambient are not super effective but quite serviceable.

Battery life is rated at 10 hours with 30 hours in the case which seem very reasonable.

The control scheme for the touch controls is their only real Achilles heel being very much like the Samsung Galaxy buds minus the experimental features. In other words I can have volume and music controls or I can switch one of those for ambient controls but I can't have all of them at once.


----------



## getclikinagas

Is there a consensus on the best half-in-ear TWS for calls? Specifically outbound audio in noisy environments.


----------



## dweaver

By half in ear, do you mean stem style or ones like the Liberty 3 Pro?


----------



## tan1415

getclikinagas said:


> Is there a consensus on the best half-in-ear TWS for calls? Specifically outbound audio in noisy environments.





dweaver said:


> By half in ear, do you mean stem style or ones like the Liberty 3 Pro?


Think he means like the Samsung Bud live.


----------



## tan1415

dweaver said:


> OK, I. All the time in this thread I rarely see JBL products discussed and don't remember seeing the Tune130NC. Did I just miss it?
> 
> Anyway at the risk of having my wife having me committed I picked up a pair these up since they were only $75 and holy crap, they do not sound like a $75 TWS or IEM for that matter!
> 
> ...


I am testing the tune 230 right this minute. The followup to the 130 I think.


----------



## tan1415

Juturna said:


> Basically almost none of the newer Galaxy Buds that came out in the last 2-3 years work with the iPhone app at all, but I think the Live is supposed to b Kinda blows that they did that...  But yeah, I also bought the Buds Live quite recently, and I feel like they sound pretty good, but not great. Like 5/10 for sound, but would still rate them higher than that because of the fit and overall experience with them. They're not exactly the buds you buy to get the best sound possible either, at least in my opinion.
> I disagree that the EQ settings aren't useful, they change the sound by quite a bit. It helps that I'm on Android and can use Wavelet too for that matter, so that makes it easier to make them sound good. But a true graphic eq in the app or something would be good.


With the EQ settings on the Samsung it’s almost like a caricature. When you choose vocal or bass it over emphasizes  it. Normally if there was eq I would you use the preset as a starting point to tune the sound to my liking..with Samsung that’s not possible. A big miss for me.


----------



## Herman

getclikinagas said:


> the





getclikinagas said:


> Is there a consensus on the best half-in-ear TWS for calls? Specifically outbound audio in noisy environments.


 think that Apple AirPods are by far the best for calling. Have tried many but these are the best by far. Not for music though but that’s not your question.


----------



## subguy812

Don't know if I missed it here, but there is a F/W update for TWX9


----------



## FYLegend (Dec 3, 2022)

Just received the Soundcore Space 40 yesterday. Out of the box impressions are promising, even though the design is a tad uninspiring.
- Similar overall bright tuning to Liberty 3 Pro but has less bass impact and treble extension. LDAC doesn't sound as drastically different from AAC as it does on the L3P where the treble spikes considerably.
- not having triple tap is a disappointment and unless they add it later, it feels like a market differentiation feature/cripple hammer to the Liberty 3 Pro. I have to sacrifice volume control just to keep transparency/ANC and smart assistant controls. I also feel the "2 second" hold is too long, more like 3 seconds!
- ANC not as good as Linkbuds S or Liberty 3 Pro, the latter being in between. Similar to L3P the mid-low frequencies are attenuated nicely, but high frequencies really struggle, especially for more diffused sounds. For example I was on the bus today and it essentially sounded like there was wind noise puffing through.

On the other hand I noticed on the Sony Linkbuds S it sounded like there was some kind of transparency mode going on during calls even if I had ANC turned on. It turned out this was due to a "sidetone" feature which unfortunately can't be disabled on the Linkbuds S and 1000XM4. Very disappointing as I was on a loud commute today and had a very hard time hearing my call.


----------



## Elvis Costello

Recently got the Soundcore A40 and was pretty impressed with how good they are. They sound pretty good and are comfortable, although their ANC and sound are not quite as good as the Linkbuds S IMO.  The ANC did a decent job of blocking out engine noises but chatter and radio were still heard. The sound is about 90% there though, and battery life appears to be very good. 
Overall I am happy with them and they are firmly in my TWS earbuds rotation.


----------



## getclikinagas

dweaver said:


> By half in ear, do you mean stem style or ones like the Liberty 3 Pro?


The stem isn't necessary, as long as they don't completely seal in-ear. These are the form factors I know of.













Here's how I'd rank the TWS I own, in terms of outgoing call quality (Wind rejection, background noise reduction, voice clarity).
Galaxy Buds Pro > Sony Linkbuds > Pixel Buds A > Galaxy Buds+ >> AKG N700NC MC2 >  Liberty 2 pro
Unfortunately the Linkbuds were a terrible fit :/

I'm considering the Airpods like @Herman suggested. But I wanted to make sure there isn't something in the android budget world that I'm missing. If only the Elevoc Clear/Active were not inear.


----------



## webvan

Did some more running this week with the Jabra Vista 2 and the Bomaker SiFi II and in the end I can't say they're a much (if at all) of an improvement as I get an excellent fit/seal/no budging fit with the SiFi II. The SiFi also have a slightly lower profile so catch less wind. Anyone else doing a lot of running with "iem" TWS ?


----------



## regancipher

getclikinagas said:


> Is there a consensus on the best half-in-ear TWS for calls? Specifically outbound audio in noisy environments.


Sony Linkbuds the outright best I've tested (EDIT - noticed they didn't fit well for you, shame!)
SoundPeats Air3 Deluxe HS performed very well here - skip to around 14:30 for outdoor call tests

I've tested pretty much all the major semi-in-ear releases including Samsung Galaxy Buds Live, Edifier W220T, 1More Comfobuds 2, Tronsmart Onyx Ace Pro, Soundcore Life Note 3S.....they're all on the channel somewhere with the same conditions for reference


----------



## getclikinagas

regancipher said:


> Sony Linkbuds the outright best I've tested (EDIT - noticed they didn't fit well for you, shame!)
> SoundPeats Air3 Deluxe HS performed very well here - skip to around 14:30 for outdoor call tests
> 
> I've tested pretty much all the major semi-in-ear releases including Samsung Galaxy Buds Live, Edifier W220T, 1More Comfobuds 2, Tronsmart Onyx Ace Pro, Soundcore Life Note 3S.....they're all on the channel somewhere with the same conditions for reference


My man! I bought the Linkbuds based on your video. Pity about the fit though.
Thank you for putting in all that effort to compare everything.

I'll check out the Air3, thanks.


----------



## regancipher

getclikinagas said:


> My man! I bought the Linkbuds based on your video. Pity about the fit though.
> Thank you for putting in all that effort to compare everything.
> 
> I'll check out the Air3, thanks.


Ah that's a shame. I sold them too, they fit great when I first bought them, but the wing tips started to lose their shape after around 2 months. Such a disappointment.

And great to hear it helped your purchase, even if it didn't turn out the best, I'm happy for the nice feedback 

I will be doing a new call quality test this month. Lots of products that didn't make it first time around


----------



## tan1415

Wow just finished my call with Samsung Customer service with regard of firmware update for the Samsung galaxy Bud live using a the IOS made Samsung Buds app.

It doesn’t work at all…
We tried everything and in the end had to use the Samsung Wearable App on my wife’s Samsung phone to update it.

Seems it’s clear that they stopped supporting IOS app.

So my question is .. should I even consider keeping this earbuds?  I like its fit and sound. 

But lack of support, crappy galaxy buds app really turns me off.


----------



## dweaver

Mors said:


> Thanks for your thoughts @dweaver , I ordered the LP3 on next day as I'm still lost for ideas, just unboxed them now and me and them really don't get on  The fit even on the biggest wings mean they just fall out vs my LP2, and they only go upto half the volume of the LP2 too. I held them in place with my LP2 and A/B'd them and I can't hear a difference, maybe maybe a little extra clarity, but not an upgrade for me sadly, so I've boxed them back up and they're going back.
> So now I'm back to square one, but I am now considering your suggestion re getting a standard set of IEMs with mmcx and pairing them up with the TW2 connector from Shure. Any suggestions in budget? I need to have a good trawl of the threads for the best under 500 dollars. Blessing 2?
> Argh





tan1415 said:


> I am testing the tune 230 right this minute. The followup to the 130 I think.


That model is a stem model versus this one which is more like the Liberty 3 Pro in design although not as big.

I have never tried JBL and have to say I am impressed with the sound quality from this model enough that I will have to start to really look at their line up. This is just their middle tier so makes me wonder what their top models sound like


----------



## Phaethon

dweaver said:


> That model is a stem model versus this one which is more like the Liberty 3 Pro in design although not as big.
> 
> I have never tried JBL and have to say I am impressed with the sound quality from this model enough that I will have to start to really look at their line up. This is just their middle tier so makes me wonder what their top models sound like


My daily is the JBL Live Pro 2. Very lively bass, but they EQ very well if that’s not your jam. ANC is awfully good and the ambient doesn’t sound metallic. The case really limits the tip rolling but I found some short stemmed Spinfits that are really doing the job for me. The battery life has been fantastic, it feels like I’m never having to charge them. DHRME says all this much better than I do. They are really becoming my go-to reviewers

Last thing - on Amazon, JBL has a lot of models on sale for some reason this weekend. The $149 Live Pro 2’s are going for $75, which is less than the $100 I paid. This is Bonkers Bang for Buck.


----------



## pigeontree

subguy812 said:


> Don't know if I missed it here, but there is a F/W update for TWX9


Nice thanks! Have you found notes on the firmware anywhere?


----------



## dweaver

I quite like DHRME for reviews as well.


----------



## X-Nemesis

raymanh said:


> Talking of scarbir, are they on this forum?


Talking of Scarbir, his last review was the Edifier W240TN on Sep 30th.  Is he out of the review scene?


----------



## dweaver

The ambient mode on the Tune130NC is actually very good in that I can turn it on and it essentially just makes them like an open back IEM letting in sound but not in a way that detracts playing music. I quite like it when I need to hear around me.


----------



## Phaethon

dweaver said:


> The ambient mode on the Tune130NC is actually very good in that I can turn it on and it essentially just makes them like an open back IEM letting in sound but not in a way that detracts playing music. I quite like it when I need to hear around me.


Next month we’re supposed to be getting JBL’s latest which will have a “Smart Case”
https://www.androidpolice.com/jbl-wireless-earbuds-touchscreen-charging-case/


----------



## SynaestheticA

tan1415 said:


> Wow just finished my call with Samsung Customer service with regard of firmware update for the Samsung galaxy Bud live using a the IOS made Samsung Buds app.
> 
> It doesn’t work at all…
> We tried everything and in the end had to use the Samsung Wearable App on my wife’s Samsung phone to update it.
> ...


What do you need firmware support for if you don't mind me asking? If fit and sound are good is firmware going to change anything?


----------



## SynaestheticA

Phaethon said:


> Next month we’re supposed to be getting JBL’s latest which will have a “Smart Case”
> https://www.androidpolice.com/jbl-wireless-earbuds-touchscreen-charging-case/


Was going to say this as well. After the Morph Infinniconnect smartcase debacle I've been wondering if a smartcase has any utility. But if there was a JBL I am going to try these would probs be it, if not just for a comparison. EQ on the case would be pretty cool + an inclusion of all of the other features people are jamming into TWS these days.


----------



## dweaver

@Phaethon,  not sure I would use that functionality but it is cool. The stem on those look smaller which might make me willing to try them but generally not a fan of stem designs. The specs for battery life etc is also very good.

They look expensive but may be worth that price. These Tune130NC are normally $130 vs the $75 I paid in Canada. So a bit of a BF steal.

I have been going back and forth between them and my Galaxy Buds 2 Pro and sonically they are neck and neck. The GB2P is a bit more intimate with slightly more forward mids and treble. The 130NC definitely can hit deeper for bass but can be scaled back if needed. I actually like the less intimate sound for a lot of my music, not quite so close to the stage but not to far back either. Certainly a nice change up in sound!

The ANC is only about 60-70% as good as the GB2P though, so just OK. To give some perspective I used both pairs driving today and the GB2P pretty much eliminate the car engine and cabin sounds even with no music playing and for sure with music. The Tune130NC on the other hand  I could still hears engine and cabin sounds while listening to music. The first was a bubble of silence the other a muffled reduction at best.

These offer a significant alternative sound that I quite like compared to the GB2P while still having areas of similarity. I can see how the parent company of the 2 brands let some cross pollination of their sonic skills take place. That added bass is definitely fun and good for some genres.

At full retail these have some competition but on sale they are a no brainer for specially if like some bass.

I think their best comparative I own price wise is the Soundcore A40 which has similar battery life in the TWS itself  and slightly more battery in the case. It also has more features such all functions available on the TWS versus the trade offs you have to do with the Tune130NC. I think it also has better ANC. The big difference is sound signature, the A40 has less bass extension and is a bit more muted in the treble and a bit less dynamic sounding. It is more balanced out if the box but also can not be ramped up to the Tune140NC levels for bass and treble. The 130NC on the other hand seems like it can be scaled back very well with it's EQ. So if sound quality is the highest priority I would give the nod to the 130NC but if ANC, smaller more stable fit, and all controls are more important I would go A40.


----------



## tan1415

SynaestheticA said:


> What do you need firmware support for if you don't mind me asking? If fit and sound are good is firmware going to change anything?


For improvement in sound or battery life etc. Got these when I updated my Melomania recently.


----------



## subguy812

pigeontree said:


> Nice thanks! Have you found notes on the firmware anywhere?


Nope...I looked a little


----------



## regancipher

X-Nemesis said:


> Talking of Scarbir, his last review was the Edifier W240TN on Sep 30th.  Is he out of the review scene?


Taking a little break when I chatted to him last. He has done a couple of reviews since then (I'm guessing stuff he had committed to completing)


----------



## whitete

dweaver said:


> OK, I. All the time in this thread I rarely see JBL products discussed and don't remember seeing the Tune130NC. Did I just miss it?
> 
> Anyway at the risk of having my wife having me committed I picked up a pair these up since they were only $75 and holy crap, they do not sound like a $75 TWS or IEM for that matter!
> 
> ...


They’re $50 on the JBL website now!!  Sounds like a steal. thanks for the heads up!


----------



## whitete

FYLegend said:


> Just received the Soundcore Space 40 yesterday. Out of the box impressions are promising, even though the design is a tad uninspiring.
> - Similar overall bright tuning to Liberty 3 Pro but has less bass impact and treble extension. LDAC doesn't sound as drastically different from AAC as it does on the L3P where the treble spikes considerably.
> - not having triple tap is a disappointment and unless they add it later, it feels like a market differentiation feature/cripple hammer to the Liberty 3 Pro. I have to sacrifice volume control just to keep transparency/ANC and smart assistant controls. I also feel the "2 second" hold is too long, more like 3 seconds!
> - ANC not as good as Linkbuds S or Liberty 3 Pro, the latter being in between. Similar to L3P the mid-low frequencies are attenuated nicely, but high frequencies really struggle, especially for more diffused sounds. For example I was on the bus today and it essentially sounded like there was wind noise puffing through.
> ...


The A40 is my favorite right now. So far I have 3 pair!  Great battery life (I get ~8 hrs per charge), good ANC and good sound quality.


----------



## Blueshound24

EX (Anthracite Oxygen) on Amazon USA for $311 in case anyone is interested. That's the lowest I've seen them.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B09VLHYQMV/


----------



## C_Lindbergh

I'm excited for CES 2023! Hopefully we'll see many news in the TWS-space  

Especially interested if Technics will unveil their new AZ80's!


----------



## Elvis Costello

Has anyone tried the Soundcore Life P2 Mini? I have bought them as a gift. All of the Soundcore earphones I have tried have been pretty good, so I hope she likes them.


----------



## Tommy C

dweaver said:


> That model is a stem model versus this one which is more like the Liberty 3 Pro in design although not as big.
> 
> I have never tried JBL and have to say I am impressed with the sound quality from this model enough that I will have to start to really look at their line up. This is just their middle tier so makes me wonder what their top models sound like


I’m intrigued by the Tune130nc. I can also get the Club Pro+ and the Tour Pro+ for just a little bit more money. I wonder if anyone tried all 3 but I kind of doubt it.


----------



## BooleanBones

Blueshound24 said:


> EX (Anthracite Oxygen) on Amazon USA for $311 in case anyone is interested. That's the lowest I've seen them.
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/dp/B09VLHYQMV/


Nice find. I think @clerkpalmer had his eyes out for a sale.


----------



## ElKabong

whitete said:


> They’re $50 on the JBL website now!!  Sounds like a steal. thanks for the heads up!


Same here, picked up a pair from wallyworld for $49


----------



## C_Lindbergh (Dec 4, 2022)

Did anyone end up buying the Astell and Kern AK UW100 btw? I liked the idea of a TWS fully focused on SQ but also with a great app were you could customize both Ambient and the controls. 

But the UW100 were incredibly short lived...

https://us.astellnkern.com/blogs/news/notice-production-discontinuation-of-the-ak-uw100


----------



## dj24

Speaking of JBL, has anyone tried the Reflect Aero?  They are currently the top workout buds listed on Wirecutter..


----------



## SynaestheticA

Review of the Victor HA-FX150T up.

In the end not as excited to have these as I wanted to be. Nothing too easy to pinpoint but it came down to musical immersion and the width of the soundstage. for $200 AUD and all of the advertisements about its very wide soundstage, I would have wanted to feel more surrounded by the music. Not taking this into account though they are very good at separation and have monstrous bass without ever hurting mids or highs.

high's missed a bit of sparkle to them as well which stopped sibilance and harshness but made music a little less magical. I think a lot of people would really like them, I just have some brands that do a better job and don't need these.

https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/victor-ha-fx-150t.26205/reviews


----------



## erockg

Tommy C said:


> Dang. Great deal… missed the train on that one.


Looks like Amazon has black for that price today.  First gen Shure SE846 for $499.  Check it!  https://www.amazon.com/Shure-Isolat...stomizable/dp/B099KV1142?ref_=ast_sto_dp&th=1


----------



## Juturna

Phaethon said:


> My daily is the JBL Live Pro 2. Very lively bass, but they EQ very well if that’s not your jam. ANC is awfully good and the ambient doesn’t sound metallic. The case really limits the tip rolling but I found some short stemmed Spinfits that are really doing the job for me. The battery life has been fantastic, it feels like I’m never having to charge them. DHRME says all this much better than I do. They are really becoming my go-to reviewers
> 
> Last thing - on Amazon, JBL has a lot of models on sale for some reason this weekend. The $149 Live Pro 2’s are going for $75, which is less than the $100 I paid. This is Bonkers Bang for Buck.



About DHRME: Really? Despite finding them somewhat amusing and their videos can be entertaining to watch, I feel like they constantly have really weird and poor takes about almost... most earbuds. Almost every review I end up disagreeing with several things they talk about. 
But yeah, each to their own.


----------



## ekjellgren

So, what are some of the good reviewers?


----------



## clerkpalmer

Blueshound24 said:


> EX (Anthracite Oxygen) on Amazon USA for $311 in case anyone is interested. That's the lowest I've seen them.
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/dp/B09VLHYQMV/


Damn - pulled the trigger on some PX7 SI2 instead.  Hmm.


----------



## Luchyres

dweaver said:


> OK, I. All the time in this thread I rarely see JBL products discussed and don't remember seeing the Tune130NC. Did I just miss it?
> 
> Anyway at the risk of having my wife having me committed I picked up a pair these up since they were only $75 and holy crap, they do not sound like a $75 TWS or IEM for that matter!
> 
> ...


How are they for phone calls? Definitely intrigued by how you describe them here - I'm a sucker for bass.


----------



## dweaver

Calls are a bit bright on my end but clear. I have not had a chance to really test them in different noise situations, so can't fully say


----------



## Luchyres (Dec 5, 2022)

dweaver said:


> Calls are a bit bright on my end but clear. I have not had a chance to really test them in different noise situations, so can't fully say


Well, I bit the bullet. $50 seems a sweet deal for something you had such a good audio experience with - I guess I'll risk it for the calls. Thanks!


----------



## MelodyMood (Dec 5, 2022)

Any suggestion of food Wireless Earbuds? I am not looking for any expensive ones. In fact, I am not in favour of Wireless Earphones at all and fully convinced that these phone companies removed headphone jack only to sell their earbuds which are usually $150-200-300 or more. I remember when I went to Samsung store to see the phones if there is any good quality phone which has 3.5mm Jack, sales guy showed me some model which obviously did not has headphone jack. That guy shamelessly suggested me to buy $250 Samsung Earbuds for $500 phone.

Anyway, this is for my kid. My budget is AUD $40-50 or may be few $s here and there. But the earbud should be good, clear voice quality but also good in sound, good Bass and richer mid with smooth high. ANC and ENC will be good. 

There are many on AliExpress but not sure which is good and most importantly they are taking way too much time for delivery. Pls suggest. Thanks in advance.


----------



## Not so fat head

Pull out a couple of my excellent wired IEM's I haven't listen two for quite a while....
Wires are a pain in the $&;$&!!!!
The future is wireless...


----------



## AmericanSpirit (Dec 5, 2022)

MelodyMood said:


> Any suggestion of food Wireless Earbuds? I am not looking for any expensive ones. In fact, I am not in favour of Wireless Earphones at all and fully convinced that these phone companies removed headphone jack only to sell their earbuds which are usually $150-200-300 or more. I remember when I went to Samsung store to see the phones if there is any good quality phone which has 3.5mm Jack, sales guy showed me some model which obviously did not has headphone jack. That guy shamelessly suggested me to buy $250 Samsung Earbuds for $500 phone.
> 
> Anyway, this is for my kid. My budget is AUD $40-50 or may be few $s here and there. But the earbud should be good, clear voice quality but also good in sound, good Bass and richer mid with smooth high. ANC and ENC will be good.
> 
> There are many on AliExpress but not sure which is good and most importantly they are taking way too much time for delivery. Pls suggest. Thanks in advance.


For that price range and assuming you are using that Samsung smartphone,you may look for some of  soundpeats ones. Sad that most of companies are getting away from 3.5mm jack indeed. Apple pulled plug for iPod as well.

For aliex:

US $42.99  57％ Off | SoundPEATS Air3 pro Hybrid ANC Bluetooth 5.2 Wireless Earphones QCC3046 Aptx-adaptive Noise Cancelling Gaming Mode Earbuds
https://a.aliexpress.com/_mLMr22C

If you install the soundpeats app, you can tune your earbuds to make the comfortable sound you may feel.

Or if you are fine with wicked semi-wireless, AKG is selling their 1BA+1DD N30 for $59, not ANC but it’s an IEM afterall, you will get proper noise isolation.

Or if you changed your mind for the budget, AKG’s $1k flagship IEM N5005 with bluetooth adapter, is sold at $199.


----------



## MelodyMood

AmericanSpirit said:


> For that price range and assuming you are using that Samsung smartphone,you may look for some of  soundpeats ones. Sad that most of companies are getting away from 3.5mm jack indeed. Apple pulled plug for iPod as well.


Yes. This is only to sell their Bluetooth Headphones. In reality, they are crap and no Bluetooth Earphones can match Wired Earphones. It's biggest scam in Tech History and nothing more than that.  


AmericanSpirit said:


> For aliex:
> 
> US $42.99  57％ Off | SoundPEATS Air3 pro Hybrid ANC Bluetooth 5.2 Wireless Earphones QCC3046 Aptx-adaptive Noise Cancelling Gaming Mode Earbuds
> https://a.aliexpress.com/_mLMr22C
> ...


Thanks for your suggestions. Let me check on them. Also, just now ordered Jabra Elite 3 through the points I have from my Mobile Service Provider so I did not need to pay anything at all. But I am sure that one spare may be also be required so I will look into the ones you suggested. I hope Jabra Elite 3 is good and as per my expectations above.


----------



## MelodyMood

AmericanSpirit said:


> Or if you changed your mind for the budget, AKG’s $1k flagship IEM N5005 with bluetooth adapter, is sold at $199.


For my personal use, I only use Flat head Earphones (like Monk+ or FiiO EMS etc.) In ear ones are not comfortable for me so never use them.


----------



## AmericanSpirit (Dec 5, 2022)

MelodyMood said:


> Yes. This is only to sell their Bluetooth Headphones. In reality, they are crap and no Bluetooth Earphones can match Wired Earphones. It's biggest scam in Tech History and nothing more than that.
> 
> Thanks for your suggestions. Let me check on them. Also, just now ordered Jabra Elite 3 through the points I have from my Mobile Service Provider so I did not need to pay anything at all. But I am sure that one spare may be also be required so I will look into the ones you suggested. I hope Jabra Elite 3 is good and as per my expectations above.


Nah things are getting better, LDAC, Aptx-Adaptive, I lived 20 year+ with IEMs, I can say wireless sound quality is almost par with wired now. At least transmission quality. TWS has its drivability cap issues, so it’s still not as capable as wired or Bluetooth amp powered class. To my knowledge there is no TWS that comes with Sonion’s electret EST driver which a modern IEM is usually equipped. So there is a long way to go for true-wireless.

Also you still have to charge those after hours of use which is inconvenient still.  Cables are bothersome as well, so some wireless IEM has cable connectivity after their power is lost.

You can also now make your faborite wired IEM as a wireless with FiiO’s UTW series.

Anyway, back to topic, yea Jabra makes good IEM too, it can’t go too wrong.


----------



## AmericanSpirit

MelodyMood said:


> For my personal use, I only use Flat head Earphones (like Monk+ or FiiO EMS etc.) In ear ones are not comfortable for me so never use them.


Ah ok. Soundpeats has apple’s Earpods style semi-open one. Air3 Pro Deluxe HS(this company simply lacks sense for naming IMO, makes good TWS though)


----------



## Not so fat head

MelodyMood said:


> Yes. This is only to sell their Bluetooth Headphones. In reality, they are crap and no Bluetooth Earphones can match Wired Earphones. It's biggest scam in Tech History and nothing more than that.
> 
> Thanks for your suggestions. Let me check on them. Also, just now ordered Jabra Elite 3 through the points I have from my Mobile Service Provider so I did not need to pay anything at all. But I am sure that one spare may be also be required so I will look into the ones you suggested. I hope Jabra Elite 3 is good and as per my expectations above.


I don't see it that way...  Engineers love to work with new cutting edge tech, TWS development is like a playground.
You ain't seen nothing yet, look at the amazing improvements in the last 5 years!!


----------



## MelodyMood

AmericanSpirit said:


> Ah ok. Soundpeats has apple’s Earpods style semi-open one. Air3 Pro Deluxe HS(this company simply lacks sense for naming IMO, makes good TWS though)


Apple Earpods (I tried wired ones came with my wife's iPhone) are the most uncomfortable one. Hardly after 10 min of using them, my ear started paining like a hell. Could not use it at all. Earlier they had flat head one. Not sure who fool gave them advise to go for the design and even biggest fool approved that.


----------



## MelodyMood

Not so fat head said:


> I don't see it that way...  Engineers love to work with new cutting edge tech, TWS development is like a playground.
> You ain't seen nothing yet, look at the amazing improvements in the last 5 years!!


There is no improvement. Only improvement is in the profit of these crony companies. It's biggest scam and all phone companies have their hands-in-gloves in this scam.

They don't need to remove 3,5mm Jack to use Bluetooth earphones. That's why it is a pure scam. Even a 5 years old child can understand and see that.


----------



## Not so fat head

MelodyMood said:


> There is no improvement. Only improvement is in the profit of these crony companies. It's biggest scam and all phone companies have their hands-in-gloves in this scam.
> 
> They don't need to remove 3,5mm Jack to use Bluetooth earphones. That's why it is a pure scam. Even a 5 years old child can understand and see that.


Well, I'm a Test Engineer.  If you can't see the advances in codex, chipsets, battery longevity, miniaturization, noise cancellation and onboard controls, then I'm surprised.  
IEM's haven't really changed at all.  Maybe improvements in sound per dollar, but that's more to do with manufacturing in China...


----------



## AmericanSpirit

Not so fat head said:


> Well, I'm a Test Engineer.  If you can't see the advances in codex, chipsets, battery longevity, miniaturization, noise cancellation and onboard controls, then I'm surprised.
> IEM's haven't really changed at all.  Maybe improvements in sound per dollar, but that's more to do with manufacturing in China...


I can disagree with “IEM haven’t changed at all” part. 

Have you tried any Planar, Sonion EST, quadbrid bone conduction driver ones? It never existed on earth a decade ago. 

Agree with “sound per dollar” part though. It’s a good trend, now we don’t need to pat few grants for great sound.


----------



## dweaver (Dec 5, 2022)

MelodyMood said:


> Any suggestion of food Wireless Earbuds? I am not looking for any expensive ones. In fact, I am not in favour of Wireless Earphones at all and fully convinced that these phone companies removed headphone jack only to sell their earbuds which are usually $150-200-300 or more. I remember when I went to Samsung store to see the phones if there is any good quality phone which has 3.5mm Jack, sales guy showed me some model which obviously did not has headphone jack. That guy shamelessly suggested me to buy $250 Samsung Earbuds for $500 phone.
> 
> Anyway, this is for my kid. My budget is AUD $40-50 or may be few $s here and there. But the earbud should be good, clear voice quality but also good in sound, good Bass and richer mid with smooth high. ANC and ENC will be good.
> 
> There are many on AliExpress but not sure which is good and most importantly they are taking way too much time for delivery. Pls suggest. Thanks in advance.


If you interested in actual suggestions. If your in the US the JBL Tune130NC has good sound quality and OK ANC and better ambient mode. It's does only AAC and SBC but sounds decent on my Samsung S20 using AAC.

Is it better than wired? Of course not but I do find it to be a very good TWS if you can live with a few trade offs regarding controls. 

I am sure you child would enjoy it. Heck you might too . Never know...

Edit: it's been on sale for around $50 so in your requested price range.


----------



## nekonhime

MelodyMood said:


> Absolutely No. You are very much wrong here. All they care is about the profit only and nothing else. There is not a single reason for removing the headphone Jack to use the Bluetooth Headphone. Are you saying that either Bluetooth or 3.5mm, only one of them can work?
> 
> There was no demand from consumer to remove headphone jack and allow only Bluetooth earphones. That's most wrong statement I have ever read. As you are working from one of these phone companies (or may be earphones/sound related one), I can very well say that you are part of this scam and in support of these crony companies too. That's a shame.
> 
> You are wrong here. It is not because of convenience. Firstly, these companies forced people to buy Bluetooth earphones and many of them upgraded their phone (anyway these companies make sure that the phones become slower or not usable after couple of years so people have to spend more money and buy new one) and with upgrade phone, they found no headphone jack to they have to buy Bluetooth earphones or connectors. And now these companies are saying that public is saying that it is convenient hence they are using. Absolutely bull. Complete Nonsense.


I mean if you try the 4.2 Bluetooth vs the 5.2 version, you will see a huge differences in sound quality, phone call, etc. Or sony xm3 vs xm4, you will see the improvements on ANC level. And changes and new things cost more money than the old things should be obvious here. Also new codecs cost money too
Second, no one force you to upgrade your earbuds really, your money your choice. You are correct about the phone situation especially iphone
Third, the wired may sound better for the money but they are too inconvenient. I used to change wired iem every week and it cost like 70-80 per time. So yeah, tws for the win here
Fourth, you can actually buy tws with good specs for under 100 nowadays, so why complained about it really?


----------



## MelodyMood

dweaver said:


> If you interested in actual suggestions. If your in the US the JBL Tune130NC has good sound quality and OK ANC and better ambient mode. It's does only AAC and SBC but sounds decent on my Samsung S20 using AAC.
> 
> Is it better than wired? Of course not but I do find it to be a very good TWS if you can live a few trade offs regarding controls.


No Wireless Earbuds can match even 25% of Sound Quality and Reliability of Wired Earphones and absolutely 0.1% match in terms of connectivity and performance. No matter how good Wireless bud is, unless you keep charging it, it won't last for even 1 full day. That's not the issue with Wired ones. 


dweaver said:


> I am sure you child would enjoy it. Heck you might too . Never know...


I really don't use in-ear type earphones at all. And strict no-no to Bluetooth. If the earbuds I ordered are not free (or from my points), then I would still be searching for cheaper ones.  My kid was also not keen to buy the phone we bought but there was no option so we had to buy that. That's what I have been saying that these companies forcing people to buy their crap phones and crap so called wireless earbuds. 


dweaver said:


> Edit: it's been on sale for around $50 so in your requested price range.


----------



## Not so fat head

AmericanSpirit said:


> I can disagree with “IEM haven’t changed at all” part.
> 
> Have you tried any Planar, Sonion EST, quadbrid bone conduction driver ones? It never existed on earth a decade ago.
> 
> Agree with “sound per dollar” part though. It’s a good trend, now we don’t need to pat few grants for great sound.


I own planar (Audeze) and Electrostatic (Stax) over ears.  Never heard them (drivers) in such a small form factor.
Would like to someday👍
My Shure, UE's and several other IEM's still sound pretty good.  Last purchased were the UE, around 12 years back.
They were around $400.


----------



## MelodyMood

Not so fat head said:


> Well, I'm a Test Engineer.  If you can't see the advances in codex, chipsets, battery longevity, miniaturization, noise cancellation and onboard controls, then I'm surprised.
> IEM's haven't really changed at all.  Maybe improvements in sound per dollar, but that's more to do with manufacturing in China...


Well, there is no advancement on ground. Only on paper and more on advertisements only. Even longer battery has some life. Noise cancellation etc. are there on wired ones too.  It's scam only my friend.


----------



## Not so fat head

MelodyMood said:


> No Wireless Earbuds can match even 25% of Sound Quality and Reliability of Wired Earphones and absolutely 0.1% match in terms of connectivity and performance. No matter how good Wireless bud is, unless you keep charging it, it won't last for even 1 full day. That's not the issue with Wired ones.
> 
> I really don't use in-ear type earphones at all. And strict no-no to Bluetooth. If the earbuds I ordered are not free (or from my points), then I would still be searching for cheaper ones.  My kid was also not keen to buy the phone we bought but there was no option so we had to buy that. That's what I have been saying that these companies forcing people to buy their crap phones and crap so called wireless earbuds.


You're entitled to your opinion, but do keep in mind, this thread is about TWS improvements, reviews, trends and finds.


----------



## MelodyMood

nekonhime said:


> I mean if you try the 4.2 Bluetooth vs the 5.2 version, you will see a huge differences in sound quality, phone call, etc.


I don't see much difference. It's all to sell newer version only. 5.0, then 5.1 and then 5.2 and now 5.3 etc. And if someone does not want to change, these companies will release some phone upgrade which will cause lots of trouble in your 5.0 or 5.2 earbuds and you will be forced to buy 5.3 or 5.5 in future. 


nekonhime said:


> Or sony xm3 vs xm4, you will see the improvements on ANC level. And changes and new things cost more money than the old things should be obvious here. Also new codecs cost money too
> Second, no one force you to upgrade your earbuds really, your money your choice. You are correct about the phone situation especially iphone.


We are being forced. That's what I am trying to say. I am using Samsung S10+. It may be fine for another 2 years in stretch. But after that? I don't see any real upgrade in phone which have headphone jack and nice screen and long battery too. They are giving headphone jack in mediocre phone with some 480 or 680 processor or much slower than SD 855. Crap display, and not even convenient to hold in hand.

It's not ony with iPhone, with Android too. I don't use iPhone.


nekonhime said:


> Third, the wired may sound better for the money but they are too inconvenient. I used to change wired iem every week and it cost like 70-80 per time. So yeah, tws for the win here
> Fourth, you can actually buy tws with good specs for under 100 nowadays, so why complained about it really?


I don't use in-ear earphones. And there is no USB C Flat head earphones with good quality sound. In fact there is hardly any. Also, I cannot even charge my phone and listen to the music at the same time with them. And there is no bluetooth earbuds with flat head (like this: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32417311324.html)


----------



## nekonhime

MelodyMood said:


> I don't see much difference. It's all to sell newer version only. 5.0, then 5.1 and then 5.2 and now 5.3 etc. And if someone does not want to change, these companies will release some phone upgrade which will cause lots of trouble in your 5.0 or 5.2 earbuds and you will be forced to buy 5.3 or 5.5 in future.
> 
> We are being forced. That's what I am trying to say. I am using Samsung S10+. It may be fine for another 2 years in stretch. But after that? I don't see any real upgrade in phone which have headphone jack and nice screen and long battery too. They are giving headphone jack in mediocre phone with some 480 or 680 processor or much slower than SD 855. Crap display, and not even convenient to hold in hand.
> 
> ...


Rog phone, sony phones and many more keep the headphone jack if you don't know ( they are flagship phones btw 8 gen 1 and 888+)
So you like the old airpod kind of guy?  Soundcore, marshall, taotronics and many more will at your service
You know phone get old overtime right? Battery will wear out and stuff so changes is obvious


----------



## AmericanSpirit

Not so fat head said:


> I own planar (Audeze) and Electrostatic (Stax) over ears.  Never heard them (drivers) in such a small form factor.
> Would like to someday👍
> My Shure, UE's and several other IEM's still sound pretty good.  Last purchased were the UE, around 12 years back.
> They were around $400.


It’s off topic, but I think your tonality preferences is like bright neutral? Letshouer’s S12 PRO is a new Planar IEM that you may find enjoyable👍 Nice to see old STAX user, I used to own SR007.


----------



## chinmie

AmericanSpirit said:


> It’s off topic, but I think your tonality preferences is like bright neutral? Letshouer’s S12 PRO is a new Planar IEM that you may find enjoyable👍 Nice to see old STAX user, I used to own SR007.



I like the older S12 more than the S12 Pro because the S12 has more "bite" and a bit more raised on the treble than the Pro version, but for longer listening the S12 Pro might be more appealing.

I myself bought the Raptgo Hook X because i already have many bright sounding IEMs, so the fuller and bassier Hook X fits my collection better. Though to be fair, the S12 signature fits my taste the most out of all the new planars I've tried


----------



## AmericanSpirit

chinmie said:


> I like the older S12 more than the S12 Pro because the S12 has more "bite" and a bit more raised on the treble than the Pro version, but for longer listening the S12 Pro might be more appealing.
> 
> I myself bought the Raptgo Hook X because i already have many bright sounding IEMs, so the fuller and bassier Hook X fits my collection better. Though to be fair, the S12 signature fits my taste the most out of all the new planars I've tried


Great info! thanks mate.


----------



## Not so fat head

Audio Technical ATH-TWX9 is at Sweetwater...

https://www.sweetwater.com/c1045--Earphones


----------



## assassin10000 (Dec 6, 2022)

chinmie said:


> Good for you, because his rants keeps getting weirder and weirder as it goes
> 
> This thread (as well as the earbuds thread) is some of the more positively vibed and helpful thread that i followed, so when i noticed a couple of out of the ordinary responses, that made me curious =)


My curiosity was getting there too... until I saw your post lol.



On topic: still using the beans (buds live) and xm4. 

Nothing else has made me pull the trigger on it (yet).


----------



## AmericanSpirit

Not so fat head said:


> Audio Technical ATH-TWX9 is at Sweetwater...


Interesting…that sweetsater name reminds me of big nostalgia. I’ve ordered some instruments and AKG’s electrostatic microphones from them before. Didn’t know they sell IEM/TWS.


----------



## dweaver (Dec 6, 2022)

Not so fat head said:


> Audio Technical ATH-TWX9 is at Sweetwater...


Those do look sweet. Maybe if they find their way to Canada I will give them a try. Them or maybe the new JBL model coming out.

LOL NVM they are in Canada already! $379CAD, to rich for me but will watch them though...


----------



## IlikeGalaxyBuds

I have had the Galaxy Buds for two years now, I do think more companies will begin transitioning to Bluetooth offerings, but with inconsistent latency and compression I hope not.


----------



## Blueshound24 (Dec 6, 2022)

Could someone tell me which Azla eartips fit and stay on the GB2P? Does the Azla Max fit and stay on?

Or which others are good to try?

Edit: I have had good luck with the cp360, however I need more tips, but I refuse to buy packs of Spinfits with two different sizes when I need only one size!


----------



## helmutcheese

The original SednaEarfit XELASTEC sticky ones stay on for some reason, some of my earbuds I owned/tested had small nozzles and as I swap tips between them, they may be slightly slacker than when new.

I have the whole Azla range apart from the new Max as do not like the partly blocked outlets as that will change the sound.


----------



## subguy812

My start in the audio world was home & car audio(more years ago than I care to remember), but honestly, after reviewing for more than a decade and being in this portable hobby for, I don't remember for sure, I think at least 15 years, I want to say I had always snubbed the wireless world. I was always a proponent of "too much interference in wireless" don't bother. The first Senn Momentum TWS started to change my thought process. I had wireless full sized as well, but used them wired much of the time, again a Senn. I want to say, I have relegated myself to buying TOTL TWS, and the gap is most definitely narrowing, wired to wireless. That said, technology on both sides, wireless and wired, has really advanced.

I have 3 TOTL TWS, B&O EX, ATH-TWX9 and XM4. These three have it going on, IMO. I am sure there are others, and Lord knows I have tried quite a few TWS, but have currently stuck with these three.

In case anyone has interest to see the progression in headphones and IEM's here is my list that I can remember https://www.head-fi.org/account/account-details

Point is, as I am in my twilight of my reviewing and have seen, and embraced, what technology has had to offer. There are times you think, how can this get any better, but through R&D it happens. I do think TWS, is really just coming into it's own and the best is yet to come.


----------



## TK33

Blueshound24 said:


> Could someone tell me which Azla eartips fit and stay on the GB2P? Does the Azla Max fit and stay on?
> 
> Or which others are good to try?


I asked this question a week or two ago when I got mine. See the post by @takeshi74 on Nov. 22. I am using large stock tips for now and it has been working great. Usually like Azla tips but didn't see the need to spend the extra money on tips this time around (I have the TWS, non-Max version on my Galaxy Buds2).


helmutcheese said:


> I have the whole Azla range apart from the new Max as do not like the partly blocked outlets as that will change the sosound.


I noticed the stock Galaxy Buds2 Pro tips have a layer of mesh built in to the tips so this may not apply to the GB2 Pro.  Not sure if it is acoustically transparent or also acts as a filter to shape the sound but, if it is the latter, I would even argue using tips without mesh in it would be changing the sound.  However, in my opinion, changing the sound is not always a bad thing if that is what you are going for or it sounds more enjoyable or feels more comfortable to you.  After all, isnt this why many of us (myself included) use EQ? Not sure if the mesh is supposed to block earwax but, if so, using completely open tips could potentially cause earwax to build up in the nozzle. My MTW3s were like this as well so I stuck with stock tips for both


----------



## helmutcheese (Dec 6, 2022)

They are tuned for whatever they have made/supplied them with so a nozzle with mesh and tips without mesh, so adding another layer will change the sound, if that makes it better or worse or does nothing is hard to say unless you try it on each model.

A nozzle with mesh full of earwax cannot fully be fully cleaned (try cleaning a cheese grater without going behind/inside face) you are simply pushing some of it through the other side, so I prefer open nozzles and a little tool like Creative used to give on their high end to clean then periodically.


----------



## regancipher

It wasn't that long ago that true wireless mirroring didn't exist.... remember the days of connecting to YH623_L or BH-024_R and praying the slave would connect to the master? That was Bluetooth 5.0 and QCC3020. 

Now we have QCY T18 for $40 offering seamless multipoint. 

Lazy generalisation to say there's been no changes or developments.


----------



## helmutcheese

AFAIR there was a few sets of buds did not use the Master/Slave method before we had the latest TWM, one way was done on the earbuds themselves the other relied on your phone having the supporting chipset (mine did not) or they would fall back to Master/Slave.


----------



## Blueshound24 (Dec 6, 2022)

helmutcheese said:


> The original SednaEarfit XELASTEC sticky ones stay on for some reason, some of my earbuds I owned/tested had small nozzles and as I swap tips between them, they may be slightly slacker than when new.
> 
> I have the whole Azla range apart from the new Max as do not like the partly blocked outlets as that will change the sound.



Does Azla make eartips compatible with GB2P that is not the XELASTEC model?

With the Max, are you talking about ports for dynamic drivers? Or where the outlet is obstructed where all the sound comes out to the ear?

I wish Spinfit would sell pairs of the SAME size. 

Edit for clarity.


----------



## LastFantasy

Is Panasonic going with a name similar to Sony?

https://fccid.io/ACJ-EAH-AZ60M2

EAH-AZ60M2


----------



## helmutcheese

Blueshound24 said:


> Does Azla make eartips compatible with GB2P that is not the XELASTEC model?
> 
> With the Max, are you talking about ports for dynamic drivers? Or where the outlet is obstructed where all the sound comes out to the ear?
> 
> ...


I cannot tell you that as so not own those buds, you would need to take the chance and buy some.

If you looked up the Max you would see the hole is partially blocked by a honeycomb grill (for want of a better words) no doubt to help catch ear wax.


----------



## erockg

LastFantasy said:


> Is Panasonic going with a name similar to Sony?
> 
> https://fccid.io/ACJ-EAH-AZ60M2
> 
> EAH-AZ60M2


New Sony wireless buds are up on the FCC site too, but they scramble their numbers so we all can't figure out what is coming


----------



## Wrathbringer27

My preordered Vivo TWS 3 Pro shipped earlier today. Let's hope I get to receive it ASAP. could do some sound comparisons to my current pair of 1More Comfobuds Pro...


----------



## dweaver (Dec 6, 2022)

Didn't @jant71 post pics of the AZ80 as well? Are Technics coming out with 2 new models?

Interesting:
https://fccid.io/ACJ-EAH-AZ80


----------



## erockg

erockg said:


> New Sony wireless buds are up on the FCC site too, but they scramble their numbers so we all can't figure out what is coming


https://thewalkmanblog.blogspot.com/2022/11/sony-yy2968-passes-through-fcc-could-be-new-wf-c500.html


----------



## takeshi74 (Dec 6, 2022)

Blueshound24 said:


> Does Azla make eartips compatible with GB2P that is not the XELASTEC model?


The AZLA SednaEarfit MAX Standard fit my Galaxy Buds 2 Pro.  AZLA now has a SednaEarfit MAX for Galaxy Buds 2 Pro on their site.

I would guess that the SednaEarfit Crystal Standard would also work but I've found I prefer the MAX.


----------



## Ghisy

Not so fat head said:


> Pull out a couple of my excellent wired IEM's I haven't listen two for quite a while....
> Wires are a pain in the $&;$&!!!!
> The future is wireless...


Well, maybe when we have lossless Bluetooth codecs but not for now. Wired is still way ahead of TWS in sound quality!


----------



## SynaestheticA

Any one here still/previously used the Lypertek pureplay Z7? What are your sound quality and comfort impressions?


----------



## Wolfhawk46

erockg said:


> Switched to the Fostex TM2C true wireless adapters with the 2 pin cable.  They sound incredible, fit and feel great.  Super light.  No tight wrap around like the Shure adapters.  I think the Moondrop S8 sound better with the Fostex over the Shure.  I'll have to keep listening...


Just got these. The stock monitors don't sound good at all, even with EQ. But, I'm hoping to test my Raptgo Hook x with them this weekend when the 2-pin connector comes in! They are comfy though and a really cool concept.


----------



## harpdoc

Since the firmware update on the ATH-TWX9 a few days ago, they have been bug free. The buttons have been working every time. Looks like they got it figured out


----------



## regancipher

Just uploaded my Morph Infiniconnect review, including dismantling the case to reveal what a sham it is 

Let's hope the JBL one turns out better (and smaller)


----------



## ElKabong

The JBL Tune130NC are also $49 at World Wide Stereo.


----------



## erockg

Wolfhawk46 said:


> Just got these. The stock monitors don't sound good at all, even with EQ. But, I'm hoping to test my Raptgo Hook x with them this weekend when the 2-pin connector comes in! They are comfy though and a really cool concept.


Very cool.  They aren't bad, especially if you can score a decent price.  I did move on and stuck with the Shure TW2 2nd Gen adapters with some Shure SE846s.  Also using the Thieaudio Oracle with the FiiO UTWS5.  Both great.  I didn't like the Foxtex stock IEMs, so I'm right there with you.


----------



## vsg28

You guys might be interested in this: https://www.techpowerup.com/301869/campfire-audio-launches-orbit-their-first-true-wireless-earphones


----------



## C_Lindbergh (Dec 7, 2022)

vsg28 said:


> You guys might be interested in this: https://www.techpowerup.com/301869/campfire-audio-launches-orbit-their-first-true-wireless-earphones


I was very interested until...

"Noise cancellation and transparency are conspicuous by their absence,"

I can live without ANC if the passive isolation is decent, but a transparency mode is 100% must for me when it comes to TWS, it's simply too annoying to take them out all the time whenever you need to make a quick conversation, especially since you cant let them hang by your ear since there are no wires.

A lack of ANC is no excuse to not include a transparency mode, even tho it won't likely sound as good, but if it serves the purpose I don't mind that much.

From a design perspective they're prob the coolest looking TWS out there, just wish there was other color options!


----------



## dweaver

How are people who bought the Tune130NC liking them? 

I think I might be hearing some hiss with the ANC enabled. I hear it with songs that have a really low volume or decay of a note in music. Mainly some classical music that quiet and subtle. In noisier situations I can't hear it as much. So, WHEN I need ANC it's not as noticable.

I used them while shopping yesterday and they worked pretty well with no complaints from my wife while chatting going into the store and wandering around Walmart. I find the tonality on my end to be a bit higher pitched which for me is a bit of a challenge as I don't hear that range as clearly as I used to. But other than that they sound OK for calls. Will update when I try them on a truly windy day.


----------



## Ghisy

vsg28 said:


> You guys might be interested in this: https://www.techpowerup.com/301869/campfire-audio-launches-orbit-their-first-true-wireless-earphones


Hmmm, no LDAC. Kinda disappointed with CFA here.


----------



## C_Lindbergh

Ghisy said:


> Hmmm, no LDAC. Kinda disappointed with CFA here.



Not their fault that Qualcomm scrapped the support of LDAC on their newer Socs.


----------



## SynaestheticA

Ghisy said:


> Hmmm, no LDAC. Kinda disappointed with CFA here.


Any examples of LDAC working without hiccups yet though? most reviews I'm reading includes people turning LDAC off for better connectivity


----------



## Wolfhawk46

C_Lindbergh said:


> I was very interested until...
> 
> "Noise cancellation and transparency are conspicuous by their absence,"
> 
> ...


Have you tried taking an earbud out of your ear? I find it makes things very transparent 😂 I kid, I kid.


----------



## SynaestheticA

vsg28 said:


> You guys might be interested in this: https://www.techpowerup.com/301869/campfire-audio-launches-orbit-their-first-true-wireless-earphones


The suss thing here is how they made a tws their cheapest product on the roster, surely it's more expensive to design a tws than wired iems?


----------



## project86

How about Comet and Satsuma? Those are/were cheaper, not sure if they are still around these days though.

I don't know if the market is really there yet for "high end" TWS models... At least not how we might define high end around here. To the rest of the world this model is very indulgent already.

Plus the standards are evolving so fast, not sure it makes sense to buy a $500-$1k TWS that will feel obsolete in a year or two.


----------



## Lifter59

project86 said:


> How about Comet and Satsuma? Those are/were cheaper, not sure if they are still around these days though.
> 
> I don't know if the market is really there yet for "high end" TWS models... At least not how we might define high end around here. To the rest of the world this model is very indulgent already.
> 
> Plus the standards are evolving so fast, not sure it makes sense to buy a $500-$1k TWS that will feel obsolete in a year or two.


Doesn't it seem like everything gets obsolete in a year or two?  That's why I bought a Fiio BTR7 and just use that. Admittedly it isn't as convenient as TWS but I don't worry about the sound quality...


----------



## regancipher

SynaestheticA said:


> Any examples of LDAC working without hiccups yet though? most reviews I'm reading includes people turning LDAC off for better connectivity


The only LDAC product I had hiccups on was the Liberty 3 Pro, and even that seems to have resolved itself with firmware updates. Both the new Soundpeats products are fine, Edifier NeoBuds Pro and Huawei Freebuds Pro 2 all completely stable. I'm guessing the problems are when you put too much distance between your buds and your source, which I don't tend to do though


----------



## erockg

project86 said:


> How about Comet and Satsuma? Those are/were cheaper, not sure if they are still around these days though.
> 
> I don't know if the market is really there yet for "high end" TWS models... At least not how we might define high end around here. To the rest of the world this model is very indulgent already.
> 
> Plus the standards are evolving so fast, not sure it makes sense to buy a $500-$1k TWS that will feel obsolete in a year or two.


The Noble Fokus Pro comes close.  They're a phenomenal entry.  No frills, but triple driver, beautifully sculpted, great soundstage and separation.  Jim and his team at Noble killed it.  They sell out all the time.  Granted, not as good as my IEMs, but nonetheless, good stuff.


----------



## erockg (Dec 7, 2022)

Lifter59 said:


> Doesn't it seem like everything gets obsolete in a year or two?  That's why I bought a Fiio BTR7 and just use that. Admittedly it isn't as convenient as TWS but I don't worry about the sound quality...


I don't even keep my tech gear around that long to worry!  Better to flip it after a year or two, so stuff still has equity, unless it's something I truly love.


----------



## erockg

SynaestheticA said:


> Any one here still/previously used the Lypertek pureplay Z7? What are your sound quality and comfort impressions?


Had them a long time ago.  Same shell and internals as the Noble Falcon Pro which our OOP.  Noble's are tuned better IMO.  They fit/insert deep.  The first time I got the Z7, the tip of the buds broke off because they're metal and cheaply glued.  Personally, I'd pass, unless you've got a steal on your hands.


----------



## erockg

vsg28 said:


> You guys might be interested in this: https://www.techpowerup.com/301869/campfire-audio-launches-orbit-their-first-true-wireless-earphones


I'll be trying these as soon as my Audio46 points vest.  Thanks for the link!


----------



## erockg

BooleanBones said:


> Glad I can be of assistance. Do give them at least a week of listening, but I find them wonderful. For an added bonus, check them out at least once using straight usb-c to usb-c wired.


Soooo... love my PX8 and then somehow ended up with the Focal Bathys too.  Ugh.  Dude, they are killer as well.  Different sound signature.  Both stellar entries.  I blame in on the Holidays.


----------



## chinmie

LDAC choice is a bit of a toss right now for me.. The difference of SQ compared to AAC or APTX is small, and unnoticeable to most people in their usual usage scenario: noisy places with streaming services (especially for most casual listener)

Even for those who can notice the difference, which is usually increased treble sparkle, usually we can replicate it on AAC/APTX using EQ, while on some people they might not like the increased treble.

For most people in head fi, they would opt to use wired solution or bluetooth DAC amps when they want to really listen to music. At least that what i do personally. 

While AAC/APTX have a real advantage to LDAC in real usage scenario: better bluetooth connection/range and longer battery life..i personally would choose that over slight increase in treble any time.

Of course there would come the time where LDAC would be improved to the point where it would have the same signal stability and battery life as AAC/APTX. I'd say currently it's not the time, maybe another year or two.


----------



## FullCircle

erockg said:


> The Noble Fokus Pro comes close.  They're a phenomenal entry.  No frills, but triple driver, beautifully sculpted, great soundstage and separation.  Jim and his team at Noble killed it.  They sell out all the time.  Granted, not as good as my IEMs, but nonetheless, good stuff.



.... and that was our first "FoKus" product launch


----------



## erockg

FullCircle said:


> .... and that was our first "FoKus" product launch


Next one will have 4 BA and Transparency!


----------



## FullCircle

erockg said:


> Next one will have 4 BA and Transparency!


----------



## project86

Lifter59 said:


> Doesn't it seem like everything gets obsolete in a year or two?  That's why I bought a Fiio BTR7 and just use that. Admittedly it isn't as convenient as TWS but I don't worry about the sound quality...



Not necessarily. I still use some old but excellent custom IEMs made by @FullCircle which even predate his Noble Audio days. They still sound amazing! The fundamentals don't change nearly as fast as Bluetooth standards, and there's no battery to wear down either.


----------



## Lifter59

project86 said:


> Not necessarily. I still use some old but excellent custom IEMs made by @FullCircle which even predate his Noble Audio days. They still sound amazing! The fundamentals don't change nearly as fast as Bluetooth standards, and there's no battery to wear down either.


Agreed. I still have a pair of Westone UM3x that are alive and well as well as a pair of UE11’s gen 1.


----------



## FullCircle

project86 said:


> Not necessarily. I still use some old but excellent custom IEMs made by @FullCircle which even predate his Noble Audio days. They still sound amazing! The fundamentals don't change nearly as fast as Bluetooth standards, and there's no battery to wear down either.



Hide that photo!

That makes me feel old!!!


----------



## Ghisy

C_Lindbergh said:


> Not their fault that Qualcomm scrapped the support of LDAC on their newer Socs.


Really? That sucks!

Anyway, I'm probably sticking with wired for now. Just got a pair of Final ZE3000 on the cheap, in case I need some TWS.


----------



## project86

FullCircle said:


> Hide that photo!
> 
> That makes me feel old!!!



You and me both sir. Those were the days... our kids were still little, I was just dabbling with reviews for fun, and you were just tinkering with CIEM designs for your own knowledge. Things have really come a long way since then!

But also:






To this day perhaps my all time favorite design.


----------



## Juturna

project86 said:


> Not necessarily. I still use some old but excellent custom IEMs made by @FullCircle which even predate his Noble Audio days. They still sound amazing! The fundamentals don't change nearly as fast as Bluetooth standards, and there's no battery to wear down either.


Thought the branding on it said "Errect" at first. That would be a _hard_ brand name to work with.


----------



## FullCircle

project86 said:


> You and me both sir. Those were the days... our kids were still little, I was just dabbling with reviews for fun, and you were just tinkering with CIEM designs for your own knowledge. Things have really come a long way since then!
> 
> But also:
> 
> ...



I have to say
That checkered board design was a moment of genius. (Wife approved ofcourse)


----------



## manehi

SynaestheticA said:


> Any one here still/previously used the Lypertek pureplay Z7? What are your sound quality and comfort impressions?


Picked them up recently at £65, at that price I'd say the sound compares well to wired iems I've had before in that range. Haven't tried other TWS to compare. Not a huge fan of the tuning but the eq in the app works well. Will be keeping and using them, mostly because the long battery life matters for my current commuting habits.


----------



## Toom

Got an email from hifiheadphones here in UK, advertising the new Campfire Audio TWS.  First I've heard of them - anyone seen any reviews, or heard them themselves?


----------



## BooleanBones

erockg said:


> Soooo... love my PX8 and then somehow ended up with the Focal Bathys too.  Ugh.  Dude, they are killer as well.  Different sound signature.  Both stellar entries.  I blame in on the Holidays.


I would love to try them, but unfortunately they are too flashy to hide from the chief. I would make myself susceptible to undesired questions


----------



## MaxwellDemon

I am very curious to see how the Campfire Audio TWS measure up too, but it seems like since it just got announced, it might take some time before we will start hearing impressions about them.


----------



## erockg

BooleanBones said:


> I would love to try them, but unfortunately they are too flashy to hide from the chief. I would make myself susceptible to undesired questions


I'm sure you'll figure out something.  It's the most wonderful time of the year.


----------



## nekonhime

MaxwellDemon said:


> I am very curious to see how the Campfire Audio TWS measure up too, but it seems like since it just got announced, it might take some time before we will start hearing impressions about them.


https://majorhifi.com/campfire-audio-orbit-review/
First impression here I guess


----------



## TK33 (Dec 8, 2022)

Toom said:


> Got an email from hifiheadphones here in UK, advertising the new Campfire Audio TWS.  First I've heard of them - anyone seen any reviews, or heard them themselves?


Got a some emails this morning too from Audio 46 and Bloom Audio in the US.  Both are sellers so, in my opinion, I wouldnt consider anything they put out an impartial review but Bloom did a comparison between the Orbit, FokusPro and MTW3, which I thought was nice.

https://bloomaudio.com/blogs/articles/campfire-audio-spirit-tws-iem-orbit-review?&utm_campaign=campaign:+Orbit+(6391f628335cdb001c96dbf6)&utm_medium=email&utm_source=omnisend&omnisendContactID=5f7ccfa219719708910dcf90

I didnt look too hard but from what I can tell from a Google search, doesnt seem to have ANC or ambient/passthrough.  I am also guessing no multipoint.  Forbes said "These are earbuds that don’t need active noise cancelation" so I took that to mean no ANC.  Definitely not for me, especially at a $250 price point, since I primarily use TWS for calls and convenience while out and about or commuting and rely on the different features. I remember the early days of TWS when I had (still have) some with awful call quality or no transparency and I would try to remove earbuds, put back in case, and try to pick up a call or talk to someone with a cup of coffee or an umbrella (or both) in hand while commuting/walking.  I have gotten spoiled by the MTW3, Linkbuds and GB2P, which I think are great well-rounded TWS.  Would be nice if the Orbit had more features (maybe I am mistaken so someone please correct me if I am wrong).  Obviously my use case can be very different than others but my guess is that this was probably not developed with someone like me in mind.  They are aptX adaptive though and seem to have a nice EQ.

Campfire Audio seems to have heard those who were asking for a TWS that focuses on ound without the extras.  Looking forward to impressions though since I know there are probably more than a few here who will pick these up.


----------



## erockg

TK33 said:


> Got a some emails this morning too from Audio 46 and Bloom Audio in the US.  Both are sellers so, in my opinion, I wouldnt consider anything they put out an impartial review but Bloom did a comparison between the Orbit, FokusPro and MTW3, which I thought was nice.
> 
> https://bloomaudio.com/blogs/articles/campfire-audio-spirit-tws-iem-orbit-review?&utm_campaign=campaign:+Orbit+(6391f628335cdb001c96dbf6)&utm_medium=email&utm_source=omnisend&omnisendContactID=5f7ccfa219719708910dcf90
> 
> ...


I did order them yesterday from CA.  No tax when they ship to me directly.  Read some great reviews.  My Fokus Pro have nothing other than stellar sound, so we'll see how this compete.  Little worried about one driver compared to the 3 in the Fokus.  We shall see...


----------



## Lifter59

Toom said:


> Got an email from hifiheadphones here in UK, advertising the new Campfire Audio TWS.  First I've heard of them - anyone seen any reviews, or heard them themselves?


A few are starting to filter in...
https://majorhifi.com/campfire-audio-orbit-review/
https://blog.hifiheadphones.co.uk/campfire-audio-orbit-review/


----------



## abrody (Dec 8, 2022)

I wonder if there’s any sense in buying these CA orbits and their supposed surprisingly good soundstage when I’m very happy with my AirPods Pro and their manufactured spatial audio. Someone convince me not to waste my money! You have approx 3 hours till I click order.


----------



## erockg

abrody said:


> I wonder if there’s any sense in buying these CA orbits and they’re supposed surprisingly good soundstage when I’m very happy with my AirPods Pro and their manufactured spatial audio. Someone convince me not to waste my money! You have approx 3 hours till I click order.


We buy, because we're addicts.  If you don't, then you're much healthier than I am!


----------



## abrody

erockg said:


> We buy, because we're addicts.  If you don't, then you're much healthier than I am!


The pain…


----------



## james444

abrody said:


> The pain…



If someone concludes their review of a $250 TWS without ANC with the words "I have a feeling the next generation of wireless buds from Campfire could be game changing"... then my natural reaction would probably be to wait for that next generation.


----------



## abrody

james444 said:


> If someone concludes their review of a $250 TWS without ANC with the words "I have a feeling the next generation of wireless buds from Campfire could be game changing"... then my natural reaction would probably be to wait for that next generation.


fair, but every review of every new tech product says that. I’m not switching off iPhone anytime soon so until they implement Apple Lossless over Bluetooth or LDAC (fat chance), I think TWS is maxed out. I just still love my andros and didn’t get caught up in CA releasing like 12 new (crappy) models, so these are so tempting.


----------



## erockg

abrody said:


> fair, but every review of every new tech product says that. I’m not switching off iPhone anytime soon so until they implement Apple Lossless over Bluetooth or LDAC (fat chance), I think TWS is maxed out. I just still love my andros and didn’t get caught up in CA releasing like 12 new (crappy) models, so these are so tempting.


I take all reviews with a grain of salt.  Pick pieces of them that interest me and then try stuff out for myself.  I'm on iPhone/Apple too.  I've found a bunch of TWS that I truly love.  Some way overpriced I'm sure, but I don't care.


----------



## Luke Skywalker

cresny said:


> Funny, I had an unopened Gemini on my desk for over a month now. I was going to sell it after I got and really liked the ATH-TWX9, but last night I was listening to something that just didn't work -- too thin somehow. Then I spied the the Gemini, ripped it open and it was perfect, like settling into a favorite old armchair. The AT's have that amazing soundstage, but the Geminis have the mix of big open bass + detail that is just so pleasant. Add in good noise cancelling and wind handling and they are keepers, albeit with crap battery life. But if they ever do come out with something new I'm right on it.


Ya I love the gemini sound but I got them out of the case the other day and they were completely dead. I'm using some foam eartips so maybe the squished away from the charging contacts but I've had this issue before. I love the sound when I'm sitting still or walking but I get a really loud popping when I run on the treadmill. 

I think I'm going to have to give up exercising


----------



## Luke Skywalker

ElKabong said:


> Nice album, kind of a Black Sabbath vibe in the guitar work. Sky Burial, great groove.


Ya I love it too. I don't even listen to this kind of music that often but it sounds great on SP3000+Vision EXT


----------



## MaxwellDemon

Lifter59 said:


> A few are starting to filter in...
> https://majorhifi.com/campfire-audio-orbit-review/
> https://blog.hifiheadphones.co.uk/campfire-audio-orbit-review/


Interesting! Seems like you get a good sound profile (but not as good as Noble ForKus) and nothing else with it. I probably will give this a hard pass as much as I want to try a CFA TWS...


----------



## BigZ12

Sennheiser MTW3 sounds very good with AptX Adaptive. 
Source: HTPC W11, Creative BT-W4 *(love it!)* and Apple Music "lossless" through Windows subsystem for Android. 
BT-W4 is set at 24bit/96khz output, but not sure if I get 24bit/44-96khz, or if the emulator downgrades to 16bit/44khz. (like Apple Music with Bluestacks emulator) 
Still noticably better than AAC from iPhone 14 Pro Max and AAC 256kbps. Crisper and more detailed.


----------



## SynaestheticA

abrody said:


> fair, but every review of every new tech product says that. I’m not switching off iPhone anytime soon so until they implement Apple Lossless over Bluetooth or LDAC (fat chance), I think TWS is maxed out. I just still love my andros and didn’t get caught up in CA releasing like 12 new (crappy) models, so these are so tempting.


You don't sound like you want to be convinced not to purchase these at all 
I look forward to your first impressions


----------



## LordToneeus

abrody said:


> I wonder if there’s any sense in buying these CA orbits and their supposed surprisingly good soundstage when I’m very happy with my AirPods Pro and their manufactured spatial audio. Someone convince me not to waste my money! You have approx 3 hours till I click order.


I caved and picked up the APP gen 2 a couple days ago. Absolutely magical. MtW3 I just bought are going back to Amazon.


----------



## Luke Skywalker

erockg said:


> The Noble Fokus Pro comes close.  They're a phenomenal entry.  No frills, but triple driver, beautifully sculpted, great soundstage and separation.  Jim and his team at Noble killed it.  They sell out all the time.  Granted, not as good as my IEMs, but nonetheless, good stuff.


Totally agree, my friend! The NFP is the best TWS I’ve heard. I’d love it if they had ANC but that would probably diminish the sound quality. I loved them so much that I took a big gamble and bought some used Kublai Khans without even auditioning them. But they ended up being even more amazing than I’d hoped


----------



## chinmie

Today I've just found one annoying thing about the Soundcore Life Dot/A 3i.
When i turn on "Do Nof Disturb" mode on my phone (Samsung Note 20), whenever there's a phone call incoming, it would automatically answer them, even before the notification flashes on the screen. In these day of age when the only phone calls i received are from my parents and spam telemarketers, it's really awkward, and also annoying for the latter..

I haven't checked all of my TWS, but among the few I've tested, none of them show the same problem. I am curious if any other 3i users (or any other Soundcore TWS for that matter) on Android also experienced the same problem?


----------



## Caipirina (Dec 9, 2022)

erockg said:


> We buy, because we're addicts.  If you don't, then you're much healthier than I am!


What do you mean we are addicts ???


----------



## webvan

With no sign of a passive mode I have asked for a return of the QCII and made it clear why, hopefully other people who need TWS when cycling or running or in windy conditions will do the same and they'll add that most basic of options available on $50 ANC TWS !


----------



## jant71 (Dec 9, 2022)

Final will release the complete wireless earphone "UZURA" from the company's wireless audio brand ag on December 16, 2022, with the themes of "noise cancellation that does not tire you" and "natural sound capture". The estimated actual selling price is around 9,980 yen including tax.     

Plenty of colors for erockg to choose from....





8/22 hour battery life, 5.2, IPX4, SBC/AAC, and uses Final E type tips.

Still at the point where the small better shaped is the cheap one and flagship has to be that huge unwieldy beast 

. Maybe in 2023 we can merge the two.

New adapters...






8/40 hours, 30mw each side, transparency and gaming modes, app with 10 band EQ and transparency levels adjustment etc. Only up to aptX though. You would need to adapt from QDC to other connectors or do a little surgery on them.


----------



## erockg

jant71 said:


> Final will release the complete wireless earphone "UZURA" from the company's wireless audio brand ag on December 16, 2022, with the themes of "noise cancellation that does not tire you" and "natural sound capture". The estimated actual selling price is around 9,980 yen including tax.
> 
> Plenty of colors for erockg to choose from....
> 
> ...


Hahahahaha!  I tried so much to like a pair of Ag buds a while back.  Tried.  I'm really enjoying the Nuratrue Pro buds right now.  They did a great job with them.


----------



## nekonhime

https://www.notebookcheck.net/PineB...tter-ANC-than-Apple-AirPods-Pro.672857.0.html
Anyone interested in this?


----------



## C_Lindbergh (Dec 9, 2022)

I hope we'll see TWS with the latest Qualcomm SoC soon! I really wouldn't mind paying a premium price for a TWS with the latest BT-tech, expesional sound quality (hopefully more towards neutral), impeccible build/material quality and easy/customizible controls with a great ambient mode.

Oh yeah and ofc very comfortable (vents for air preassure please!).

Personally the price I'm willing to pay for a TWS will definitely increase with LE Audio/LC3/LC3plus! Battery and general useability will see major improvements.


----------



## assassin10000

jant71 said:


> Final will release the complete wireless earphone "UZURA" from the company's wireless audio brand ag on December 16, 2022, with the themes of "noise cancellation that does not tire you" and "natural sound capture". The estimated actual selling price is around 9,980 yen including tax.
> 
> Plenty of colors for erockg to choose from....
> 
> 8/22 hour battery life, 5.2, IPX4, SBC/AAC, and uses Final E type tips.



Those look tiny. If the anc is any good that'd be sweet. I wonder what sound sig they'll go for.


----------



## cresny

erockg said:


> Soooo... love my PX8 and then somehow ended up with the Focal Bathys too.  Ugh.  Dude, they are killer as well.  Different sound signature.  Both stellar entries.  I blame in on the Holidays.


I'm afraid the design of the Focal Bathys represent the shotgun blast I would suffer from my wife if I got a pair to go with my px8s.


----------



## Luke Skywalker

Ha yeah I got the Bathys too. Just tell her they were $200 - my wife believed me


----------



## dweaver

So any one who bought the Tune 130NC. How are you enjoying them?

I find myself using them a fair amount. A bit loose in the ear in terms of fit so not sure if they will good for exercise.

But now JBL live Free 2 are on sale for $119. So damn tempting. But they both have the same size driver and I have a feeling the newer model likely just has better ANC and a few other bells and whistles. But I suspect the actual sound will be pretty similar. So trying hard to just ignore them LOL


----------



## Tommy C

dweaver said:


> So any one who bought the Tune 130NC. How are you enjoying them?
> 
> I find myself using them a fair amount. A bit loose in the ear in terms of fit so not sure if they will good for exercise.
> 
> But now JBL live Free 2 are on sale for $119. So damn tempting. But they both have the same size driver and I have a feeling the newer model likely just has better ANC and a few other bells and whistles. But I suspect the actual sound will be pretty similar. So trying hard to just ignore them LOL


Saw the Tune 130NC on sale locally but for a bit more there are other JBL models that were TOTL last year so still debating 😀


----------



## helmutcheese (Dec 10, 2022)

These are certainly different:


----------



## dweaver

LOL I hear you! I am tempted to see if I can return these and buy the Live Free 2 instead. But some reviews and stats have me wondering as the battery performance might be better on the Tune 130NC.

Well in the time I wrote the paragraph above I decided to try to return the 130NC and get the Live Free 2. If they let me I will give a brief memory comparison after the switch. The $45 extra gets me multi pairing, pause sensor, a more flush fit and hopefully more secure, etc. Hopefully they sound just as awesome.


----------



## Devodonaldson

Luke Skywalker said:


> Ha yeah I got the Bathys too. Just tell her they were $200 - my wife believed me


🤣🤣🤣


----------



## dweaver (Dec 10, 2022)

OK JBL Live Free 2 definitely fit better and are more secure that the Tune 130NC. This difference alone is worth the extra $45 to me.

Touch surface is easier to find and a bit more responsive. Control scheme is the same though. So still no way to control music, volumes me, and and ambient controls all at the same time. Get a verbal response when switching ambient modes versus just a beep which I prefer.

Pause sensor works well.

Had 2 updates it applies out of the box.

Initial sound impressions are the new model is as good as or more immersive than the Tune130NC.

ANC and passive isolation are both better.

So an upgrade in every way. Well worth the extra $45. Really glad they let me return the Tune 130NC.

Only missing features are inability to have all controls from the buds at the same time and I wish they could auto detect talking and allow me to talk through them. But a double tap on left ear pauses the music and enables Ambient which is almost as good.

Bit of a honeymoon with JBL at the moment but sonically speaking they may be my new favorite...


----------



## Not so fat head

dweaver said:


> So any one who bought the Tune 130NC. How are you enjoying them?
> 
> I find myself using them a fair amount. A bit loose in the ear in terms of fit so not sure if they will good for exercise.
> 
> But now JBL live Free 2 are on sale for $119. So damn tempting. But they both have the same size driver and I have a feeling the newer model likely just has better ANC and a few other bells and whistles. But I suspect the actual sound will be pretty similar. So trying hard to just ignore them LOL


I picked these up at Marshalls for $39.99...  They are definitely worth looking at, even at MSRP.  Harman/JBL/AKG punch way above their weight, and understand the market.


----------



## dweaver (Dec 10, 2022)

I agree 100% at $75CAD the Tune 130NC sounded damn good. As good as a lot of TWS costing a lot more money!

I liked the JBL sound so much I returned the 130NC for the Live Free 2 since they were also on sale at $120CAD and I thought the additional $45 was worth paying for multi point, slightly better ANC, and more comfortable/secure fit, and aut pause sensors.

But if anyone just wants great sound and don't mind the slightly more basic functionality. The sound difference between the 2 models is pretty minimal. The Live Free may have a bit better sound but without being able to do actual A/B testing I can't say that with certainty, so that tells you they are very close to the same in that regard. So for 62.5% of the cost of the Live Free 2 in Canada they are well worth the price.


----------



## ElKabong

dweaver said:


> OK JBL Live Free 2 definitely fit better and are more secure that the Tune 130NC. This difference alone is worth the extra $45 to me.
> 
> Touch surface is easier to find and a bit more responsive. Control scheme is the same though. So still no way to control music, volumes me, and and ambient controls all at the same time. Get a verbal response when switching ambient modes versus just a beep which I prefer.
> 
> ...


Bit on these also. Love me some new toys.


----------



## Phaethon

dweaver said:


> LOL I hear you! I am tempted to see if I can return these and buy the Live Free 2 instead. But some reviews and stats have me wondering as the battery performance might be better on the Tune 130NC.
> 
> Well in the time I wrote the paragraph above I decided to try to return the 130NC and get the Live Free 2. If they let me I will give a brief memory comparison after the switch. The $45 extra gets me multi pairing, pause sensor, a more flush fit and hopefully more secure, etc. Hopefully they sound just as awesome.


I’ve had the JBL Live Pro 2 in my pocket for months now. I often use the versus website to compare TWS. Here’s the feature comparison of the Live Free 2 and Live Pro 2. 
https://versus.com/en/jbl-live-free-2-vs-jbl-live-pro-2
The Live Pro 2 are the only stem-style I’ve really liked and the battery life meets my desires. I’ve also found that as well as enjoying the JBL house sound, they’ve made sure that every included feature works well. 
Both models are on Amazon for $75 and are a steal.


----------



## regancipher

Another stem-based ANC bud from Soundpeats. That's the Air3 Pro, Life and now the Capsule3 Pro......oh, and it has LDAC as well 😭


----------



## dweaver

I went Live Free 2 because the Pro is not on sale in Canada, if both models are on sale in the US that is really good.

I struggled giving up the battery life of the 130NC but in every other respect the Live Free 2 is an improvement for me. 

That comparison article misses a couple things, the Free does have a wear sensor and it also has a 10mm driver versus the Pro which has an 11mm driver. But it is mostly accurate.

I listened to several reviews and most suggested the sound being pretty similar and the Brian unboxed review listed a difference of about 1hr for battery life which convinced me to give the Live Free a try.

I also do prefer a non stem style for TWS. So was leaning toward the Live Free from that regard as well.


----------



## Tstorey

Do any B&O EX owners have any tip recommendations please? Currently using the Azla TWS max in a large and whilst the fit is OK I don feel that insertion “push” that I like and wonder if there’s anything with a bit more of an insertion depth/length?


----------



## MaxwellDemon

helmutcheese said:


> These are certainly different:



Don't underestimate them! Lack of LDAC and AptX aside, these have been some of my favorite TWS -- even though if they are best connected via USB and home usage 😂


----------



## Juturna

regancipher said:


> Another stem-based ANC bud from Soundpeats. That's the Air3 Pro, Life and now the Capsule3 Pro......oh, and it has LDAC as well 😭


Where did you find these? Can't even find info on these on Soundpeats website lol


----------



## erockg (Dec 11, 2022)

Anyone still rock on’ these B&O EQ?  Sick price: Limited-time deal: Bang & Olufsen Beoplay EQ - Active Noise Cancelling Wireless In-Ear Earphones with 6 Microphones, up to 20 hours of playtime, Black https://a.co/d/dhn6ogW


----------



## erockg

Tstorey said:


> Do any B&O EX owners have any tip recommendations please? Currently using the Azla TWS max in a large and whilst the fit is OK I don feel that insertion “push” that I like and wonder if there’s anything with a bit more of an insertion depth/length?


I tried everything and always went back to the stock silicone.


----------



## ElKabong

erockg said:


> I tried everything and always went back to the stock silicone.


Using the large stock tips, get a really good seal with them.


----------



## MelodyMood

Received the Wireless Earbuds, which I ordered for my kid, on Friday. I should admit that I was wrong in saying that Wireless Sound Quality is only 25% of Wired ones. Actually, it is not even 5%. There is no comparison at all and it is proved yet again. So as I have been saying, these Bluetooth Earbuds and removing Headphone Jack is the biggest scam and nothing more than that. Sadly, even the Regulatory Bodies and other responsible organisations got huge money as part of this corruption so that they won't raise any objection on this illegal practices.


----------



## project86

Looking for some help. This TWS design was sold a few years back and has had different names in different regions - Whizzer, Mezone, and Hieha, always called B6 for model number. They had a somewhat unique shape and the case was interesting too, opened up in half instead of having a lid. 





I'm looking for something similar or ideally the same. It's the only TWS design that really fits my wife comfortably, but the battery is dying. We have tried over a dozen others but none work as well for her small ears. Seems to be the fairly deep stem combined with the really small body - even without ANC, they isolate really well for her. 

Anyone ever see something similar out there? It can be a cheap no-name brand for all I care, it's all about the fit at this point.


----------



## jant71

project86 said:


> Looking for some help. This TWS design was sold a few years back and has had different names in different regions - Whizzer, Mezone, and Hieha, always called B6 for model number. They had a somewhat unique shape and the case was interesting too, opened up in half instead of having a lid.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Perhaps the fill T1XS...


----------



## assassin10000 (Dec 11, 2022)

project86 said:


> Looking for some help. This TWS design was sold a few years back and has had different names in different regions - Whizzer, Mezone, and Hieha, always called B6 for model number. They had a somewhat unique shape and the case was interesting too, opened up in half instead of having a lid.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


The new final audio tws that was posted a few pages back maybe?

Qcy t16 or maybe the onemore comfobud z sleep buds if for music only (no mics).


----------



## project86

Thanks, I will look into both suggestions. So far this week we have tried the JBL 130NC, Kenwood WS-A1, Creative Outlier Gold, Sennheiser Momentum 2, RHA True Connect II, and a few other cheap no-name really small TWS models. Some fit ok but none really isolated very well, even with ANC active.


----------



## gabriely

Tstorey said:


> Do any B&O EX owners have any tip recommendations please? Currently using the Azla TWS max in a large and whilst the fit is OK I don feel that insertion “push” that I like and wonder if there’s anything with a bit more of an insertion depth/length?


CP360s are your best shot! Tried a bunch of tips, I like those, the Azla Max and the standard silicon tips on the EX.


----------



## nekonhime

Amazon have the 50% off for JBL brand for anyone interested (230NC for 49.99)


----------



## dweaver (Dec 11, 2022)

Having had a chance to use the JBL Live Free 2 for a day and bit now and the Tune 130NC for a couple of days. The Live 2 is a bit less bassy (which was part of why bought and liked the 130NC. I have 2 EQ's I was using on the 130, one was a 1db smile and one was a modified studio EQ where I gave the mids a bump and brought the bass closer to flat from the 1-2DB dip and in the original EQ. Both of these sound off on the Free 2. I actually like the club EQ and a modified version of it with the bass boosted more and the vocal midrange is boosted as well I'm the Free 2. I am also using a larger U shaped EQ that I like as well.

I have also had 2 instances of the Live 2 cutting and out when driving. The 2nd time I turned off the car BT connection and the issue stopped. The car BT is only set for calls but something is making BT flaky with this headset. Not a safe method of driving but one I have occasionally used when I forget I am wearing a TWS. So something most conciencios people will never encounter. But if you do this occasionally or are forgetful like I am you might experience some issues.

The Free 2 is just as comfy as my GB2P when up and about but a bit to big for sleeping as comfortably. 

So if you like your bass the 130NC will be more up you alley out of these two models.


----------



## SynaestheticA

MelodyMood said:


> Received the Wireless Earbuds, which I ordered for my kid, on Friday. I should admit that I was wrong in saying that Wireless Sound Quality is only 25% of Wired ones. Actually, it is not even 5%. There is no comparison at all and it is proved yet again. So as I have been saying, these Bluetooth Earbuds and removing Headphone Jack is the biggest scam and nothing more than that. Sadly, even the Regulatory Bodies and other responsible organisations got huge money as part of this corruption so that they won't raise any objection on this illegal practices.


And he's back. What brand did you end up getting?


----------



## Canabuc (Dec 11, 2022)

Not much talk on here about the 1more Evo which have dual drivers ldac multipoint and with recent firmware update have graphic equalizer control as well.
I see them on sale for as low as $125 wondering if it's worth it. I have watched some of yous that say sound wise it seems to be at the top and it's ANC is not far behind the Sony.


----------



## SynaestheticA

@MelodyMood also I guess everyone has better things to do than encourage an argument with you regarding tws. . . But not me. 

I think you're discounting a lot of what is good about tws. For me this product is one of the more exciting things to collect. You're discounting first of all the convenience of having no cords, the cool designs companies come up with and all of the extra features that the buds offer along with the improvements of these aspects. 

Everything from the case to the fit to the feel make tws more fun to have with you than wired iems or over earphones.

Also some people here will disagree with me, but I think some tws are superior to some cabled iems in sound quality. I haven't purchased a $300 pair of wired iems before but I do get better sound quality and imaging from some of my TWS than I do from $150 audio Technica wired buds.

Also on a pure enjoyment basis, I enjoy using TWS for listening as much or more than my Beyerdynamic DT 770. 

Plus the absolute joy of working out and running with TWS beats any over ear or wired iems for the same purpose. 

Even if I'm wrong, this thread is a group of people who think this technology is exciting so subjectivise all you want with us, it won't work because we can subjectivise back harder and better.


----------



## WilliamBlake

SynaestheticA said:


> @MelodyMood also I guess everyone has better things to do than encourage an argument with you regarding tws. . . But not me.
> 
> I think you're discounting a lot of what is good about tws. For me this product is one of the more exciting things to collect. You're discounting first of all the convenience of having no cords, the cool designs companies come up with and all of the extra features that the buds offer along with the improvements of these aspects.
> 
> ...


Well I think the point is that with wired iems you should have a good source too, instead with tws it's all in that, so maybe you can prefer the tws for that, it's more an easy listening.


----------



## dweaver

@Canabuc the Evo looks interesting but unfortunately $165 in Canada (after $50 discount coupon) so a bit to steep for me. I snuck the JBL Live Free past my wife because I had already ponied up $75 for the Tune 130NC a week ago so it only looked like $45 when I swapped for the bigger model .

But the Evo is definitely intriguing. Have any of the earlier review updated their comments now that the custom EQ is available?


----------



## Canabuc

dweaver said:


> @Canabuc the Evo looks interesting but unfortunately $165 in Canada (after $50 discount coupon) so a bit to steep for me. I snuck the JBL Live Free past my wife because I had already ponied up $75 for the Tune 130NC a week ago so it only looked like $45 when I swapped for the bigger model .
> 
> But the Evo is definitely intriguing. Have any of the earlier review updated their comments now that the custom EQ is available?


1 or 2 written ones agreed the fact. I like the idea of a dynamic driver and balanced armature.
Only heard great things about the sound and apparently very comfortable. I love my AZ60 and only two complaint is after a couple of hours they bother my ears.


----------



## SynaestheticA

WilliamBlake said:


> Well I think the point is that with wired iems you should have a good source too, instead with tws it's all in that, so maybe you can prefer the tws for that, it's more an easy listening.


Also nothing better than walking around on a work call waving your arms around like the American Psycho doing business (Or in our case on the phone to Amazon returns)


----------



## dweaver

I like a good hybrid setup, but find a single BA and Dynamic is not enough to give great holographic imaging.

I also find the AZ60 a bit uncomfortable after using for a couple of hours. Right now my most comfortable TWS is the Galaxy Buds 2 Pro which has a dual dynamic driver, followed closely by the JBL Live Free 2 and Sony Linkbuds S, both which fall just shy of the GB2P for comfort for varying reasons. All 3 are more comfortable that the AZ60 by quite a bit. The 1MOre Evo looks to be similarly shaped to the JBL Live Free 2 at least where is sits in the ear. The Free 2 have slight curve to its shape which makes it fit like a glove in my ear. I also find its tips combined with the oval stem shape very comfortable.


----------



## james444

project86 said:


> Looking for some help. This TWS design was sold a few years back and has had different names in different regions - Whizzer, Mezone, and Hieha, always called B6 for model number. They had a somewhat unique shape and the case was interesting too, opened up in half instead of having a lid.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



These seem to have pretty similar design: 
https://www.amazon.com/Wireless-Smallest-Earphones-Wide-Range-Connection/dp/B0BDYW44VX


----------



## Tstorey

_thanks for the feedback on the EX guys. Tried the stock large tips and whilst good they don’t give me that feeling of isolation and I wanted a bit more depth. Will try the spinfits 👍🏻_


----------



## regancipher

Anyone seen these bad boys from Smabat?! 3 month crowdfunding has now started...…






https://www.smabat.cn/smabat/products/47495928.html

Also, review of the Mini Pro HS is up, here at headfi and on YouTube:



TLDR - ANC is a big improvement (and very strong compared with the original), Calls are pretty good, Sound is good for the price but the LDAC hype train is definitely at the station ready to leave


----------



## helmutcheese

Looks like a fancy tin/can opener! 🤣


----------



## mikp

regancipher said:


> Anyone seen these bad boys from Smabat?! 3 month crowdfunding has now started...…
> 
> 
> 
> ...



i was not supposed to, but too weak to resist at this price


----------



## helmutcheese

Good deal (but need add Tax at cart for UK), they are now in Amazon UK but £62.99 then with £15% off voucher


----------



## YungOmbat

still not there yet. honestly u dont need anything better than something like airpods pro 2, when you are outside you dont pay attention to the finest of details anyways, so at least to me it makes no difference


----------



## helmutcheese

I would not touch Apple esp. on an Android phone so no thanks and speak for yourself.


----------



## YungOmbat

mikp said:


> i was not supposed to, but too weak to resist at this price


are these even any good, look like standard cheap china crap


----------



## YungOmbat

helmutcheese said:


> I would not touch Apple esp. on an Android phone so no thanks and speak for yourself.


damn i bit mean  another good option thats pretty close is the new bose earbuds.


----------



## YungOmbat

Not so fat head said:


> Great deal


thats a crazy deal


----------



## helmutcheese

Have you been living under a rock?

They are good budget brand but tend to have to many new products instead on concentrating on QA.

You sure do have quite a lot to say esp as mostly negative and very opinionated. 😕


----------



## YungOmbat

we should see some big improvements soon as Bluetooth gets better. also campfire came out with their tws earbuds. hopefully they are good


----------



## YungOmbat

MaxwellDemon said:


> More thoughts on the Cyberblade now that I have some time to sit with them. First thing is the thinness is due to the "booster" system they are using when their "main hub" is connected via USB. Once I switch to Bluetooth, these sound _so much better_.
> 
> Now onto some proper thoughts, some mini review for it! Of course, it has been ages since I wrote any sort of audio review, so be gentle with me on it...
> 
> ...


those things look like something out of star wars


----------



## YungOmbat

helmutcheese said:


> Have you been living under a rock?
> 
> They are good budget brand but tend to have to many new products instead on concentrating on QA.
> 
> You sure do have quite a lot to say esp as mostly negative and very opinionated. 😕


i didn't say there are no options, im talking about the best of the best in terms of noise cancelling, features, and sound quality. stop bickering and accept that its just an opinion. Try being informed instead of just opinionated


----------



## mikp

helmutcheese said:


> Good deal (but need add Tax at cart for UK), they are now in Amazon UK but £62.99 then with £15% off voucher


had to pay tax on that. no amazon here.

wanting to replace the jabra 65 for hiking. Not using the mtw3 in -20°C and snow. 

Already damaged one set of tws this winter


----------



## regancipher

helmutcheese said:


> Good deal (but need add Tax at cart for UK), they are now in Amazon UK but £62.99 then with £15% off voucher


£44.09 at Amazon UK with the voucher code MINIPROHS

Same for the Capsule3 Pro I posted about yesterday, same price. Been testing them today, pretty interesting. Probably the most neutral-sounding Soundpeats release I tried yet.


----------



## helmutcheese

Took the deal, hope they fit me as Mini Pro did not, but this has a different shape/sized nozzle.


----------



## regancipher

helmutcheese said:


> Took the deal, hope they fit me as Mini Pro did not, but this has a different shape/sized nozzle.


They don't fit me particularly well, but with M tip on one ear and L on the other they seem to work better. I watched El Jefe talking about them last night and they look totally different in his ears than mine, for me I have to just let them fill the space around my concha....no way they will fit in my ear canal


----------



## YungOmbat

miserybeforethemusic said:


> Oh and slightly OT, but you might want to consider a pair of these as a potential drummers' monitor. Been test-driving them for the week and I think you could legit use these behind a kit in a pinch. Maybe studio-only, but that's something.
> 
> 
> 
> Run a little more than your IT00, but this is probably a good step up for you on the wired side. Let them break in, though. These LCP drivers seem to need it.


those things look like candy, me likeee


----------



## helmutcheese (Dec 12, 2022)

I need 14mm at least tips as large canals, so XL but these weird, shaped buds do not even sit right.

I will be trying them with my AZLA SednaEarfit range of tips.
​


----------



## FYLegend

Does the Mini Pro HS have the ability to use transparency mode on one ear? Not having this is a dealbreaker to me as on the 1More Evo.

After about a week with the A40 I think it holds up fairly well for 90$ CAD but I would say that initial impressions can be deceiving. Much of its range is rather veiled except for an 7.5kHz peak (see RTings), which helps bring things to life but is also rather thin and shrill.

The Linkbuds S seems to have the potential to sound better but bringing up the treble with the app makes it sound papery and borders on clipping.

I don't know about other budget brands at the moment but I think Soundcore still trails behind considerably in terms of ANC tech compared to the big brands. Their ANC (so far I've tried Q30, Liberty 3 Pro, Q45 and Space A40) does well for low droning frequencies but struggles a lot in some mid-high frequencies like fan noises.

On the flipside when I had the Earfun Free Pro its ANC was great for indoor fan noises but awful for everything else.


----------



## WilliamBlake

SynaestheticA said:


> Also nothing better than walking around on a work call waving your arms around like the American Psycho doing business (Or in our case on the phone to Amazon returns)


I wasn't considering phone calls, but if we are talkin about comfort and ease to use, tws win, hands down.


----------



## helmutcheese (Dec 12, 2022)

No fancy features, aimed at good SQ.


----------



## dweaver

I have the dual dynamic Mackie IEM. It's pretty decent sounding. These will likely be more aimed at the musician.


----------



## erockg (Dec 12, 2022)

Campfire Audio Orbit came in today.  I have to admit, these things sound great without EQ.  Full, wide soundstage.  Great separation for a TWS.  Decent bass/sub-bass.  Case is super light, small and  pocketable.  Buds fit well with aftermarket tips.  Azla to the rescue.  Full touch controls but no ANC or Transparency.  Probably missed something but they do have wireless charging.  I didn't they they did.  Prompted for a firmware update upon pairing.  Went smooth.  These things are tuned very nicely.  Leans toward the bass, but for me everting else is really really good for hard rock/metal.  Let the honeymoon phase commence...

Attached is a few comparison shot vs the AirPods Pro 2 and the Nuratrue Pro.


----------



## dweaver

Finding this EQ rather good on the JBL Free Live 2


----------



## SynaestheticA

erockg said:


> Campfire Audio Orbit came in today.  I have to admit, these things sound great without EQ.  Full, wide soundstage.  Great separation for a TWS.  Decent bass/sub-bass.  Case is super light, small and  pocketable.  Buds fit well with aftermarket tips.  Azla to the rescue.  Full touch controls but no ANC or Transparency.  Probably missed something but they do have wireless charging.  I didn't they they did.  Prompted for a firmware update upon pairing.  Went smooth.  These things are tuned very nicely.  Leans toward the bass, but for me everting else is really really good for hard rock/metal.  Let the honeymoon phase commence...
> 
> Attached is a few comparison shot vs the AirPods Pro 2 and the Nuratrue Pro.


This is the news i've been waiting on from this thread. Looking forward to more impressions.

Been wanting to spend more money on a product to see what it got me and was going to hit the Nobel Fokus up but these came out as soon as I was ready to spend some $$. The Noble also made me hesitate as I will use them for running + gym and will sweat quite a bit so wanted something tough and sturdy. Would love feedback on Fit when you're ready.


----------



## erockg (Dec 13, 2022)

SynaestheticA said:


> This is the news i've been waiting on from this thread. Looking forward to more impressions.
> 
> Been wanting to spend more money on a product to see what it got me and was going to hit the Nobel Fokus up but these came out as soon as I was ready to spend some $$. The Noble also made me hesitate as I will use them for running + gym and will sweat quite a bit so wanted something tough and sturdy. Would love feedback on Fit when you're ready.


Not sure they're for running, gym and sweat, but maybe.  I can see them popping out if you don't have a great/tight fit.


----------



## AmericanSpirit

Anyone know any TWS that has LCP driver and comes with very detailed EQ app? Like you van adjust to the precision of 100hz span.


----------



## SynaestheticA

regancipher said:


> Anyone seen these bad boys from Smabat?! 3 month crowdfunding has now started...…
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Im done with crowdfunded tws for now. I've done the Hyphen, Pamu, Morph and Apesonic bit just don't see any ingenuity above and beyond the rest of the established players.

It's fun if the campaign takes a year or two and then they show up one day after you've forgotten about them. By that time as Morph showed us the problem they were solving has been solved some other way. 

I'll still tune in for your review tho


----------



## james444

AmericanSpirit said:


> Anyone know any TWS that has LCP driver and comes with very detailed EQ app? Like you van adjust to the precision of 100hz span.



QCY HT05: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/goi...e-we-there-yet.861024/page-3216#post-17194090


----------



## FullCircle

SynaestheticA said:


> The suss thing here is how they made a tws their cheapest product on the roster, surely it's more expensive to design a tws than wired iems?



The fact that there is a new chip roll out every few months or so, keeps prices suppressed as manufacturers fear their products will become obsolete.


----------



## subguy812 (Dec 13, 2022)

erockg said:


> Campfire Audio Orbit came in today.  I have to admit, these things sound great without EQ.  Full, wide soundstage.  Great separation for a TWS.  Decent bass/sub-bass.  Case is super light, small and  pocketable.  Buds fit well with aftermarket tips.  Azla to the rescue.  Full touch controls but no ANC or Transparency.  Probably missed something but they do have wireless charging.  I didn't they they did.  Prompted for a firmware update upon pairing.  Went smooth.  These things are tuned very nicely.  Leans toward the bass, but for me everting else is really really good for hard rock/metal.  Let the honeymoon phase commence...
> 
> Attached is a few comparison shot vs the AirPods Pro 2 and the Nuratrue Pro.


Keep us posted. These caught my attention, although they are not very feature rich. To me the bar to beat is still EX and TWX9. I have had a few CA products over the years, I do like their stuff and like them as a company.


----------



## FullCircle

subguy812 said:


> Keep us posted. These caught my attention, although they are not very feature rich. To me the bar to beat is still EX and TWX9. I have had a few CA products over the years, I do like their stuff and like them as a company.








Ken is all gold, great friend & mentor.


----------



## regancipher

SynaestheticA said:


> Im done with crowdfunded tws for now. I've done the Hyphen, Pamu, Morph and Apesonic bit just don't see any ingenuity above and beyond the rest of the established players.
> 
> It's fun if the campaign takes a year or two and then they show up one day after you've forgotten about them. By that time as Morph showed us the problem they were solving has been solved some other way.
> 
> I'll still tune in for your review tho


I did Apesonic as well....what a disaster that was!

I also did Edifier NeoBuds Pro and Elevoc Clear with mixed results, with Smabat part of me feels like Edifier they are at least a name I know....part of me thinks, yeah but it's crowdsourced and everything you've done in this field previously has been by and large crap!


----------



## AmericanSpirit

james444 said:


> QCY HT05: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/goi...e-we-there-yet.861024/page-3216#post-17194090


Thx!


----------



## tan1415

Guys, I am considering the JBL 230Tune or the Samsung Buds live. Both great for me and comfortable enough tonsleepmon. And there is the problem…I fall asleep with it and when I wake up it’s empty. No problem with it, but just realize it’s actually bad for the internal battery to recharge it from empty.

How often can you empty and recharge an earphone before it starts going bad battery wise


----------



## erockg (Dec 13, 2022)

helmutcheese said:


> No fancy features, aimed at good SQ.



Saw these on B&H a while back.  They look EXACTLY like the Noble Fokus H-ANC.  Same shell, same case, same driver setup etc.  Hmm.  I'm still always wondering how this happens.  The FHANC were out waaaaay before these.  Do companies go to a manufacturer and pick from a certain batch of shells, drivers and say "Do this."  Or are folks just stealing other folks designs (I'm guessing that is it).  So Gamesky is trying to tell us Mackie rocks but he needs to do his research and realize Noble did it months ago.  Sigh...


----------



## helmutcheese

Yes, that is exactly how it works. and mentioned in this recent video:


----------



## FullCircle

erockg said:


> Saw these on B&H a while back.  They look EXACTLY like the Noble Fokus H-ANC.  Same shell, same case, same driver setup etc.  Hmm.  I'm still always wondering how this happens.  The FHANC were out waaaaay before these.  Do companies go to a manufacturer and pick from a certain batch of shells, drivers and say "Do this."  Or are folks just stealing other folks designs (I'm guessing that is it).  So Gamesky is trying to tell us Mackie rocks but he needs to do his research and realize Noble did it months ago.  Sigh...



I don't think it is a matter of theft (just my take.)

Some housings are "open mold" meaning a manufacturer has invested time/money/effort in designing the housing and the housing is open to anyone wanting to buy their tws. The TWS will be tweaked to certain specifications, color schemes, internals parts etc according to the manufacturers / buyers requests.

TWS products are built by the 1000s at a factory larger than some college grounds. Getting involved in the TWS industry requires a lot of start up capital as the minimum order requirements are high, which I guess is why there are "go fund me" campaigns for such products.

That said, some housing can be 100% unique, which requires even more time & money to build the tws.  Another possibility, is the final housing is a derivation of an open mold.  The Falcon Pro, was a hodge podge of open molds combined with unique molds as well.

The FoKus pro is all unique, which was easy to do, as the housing was 3D printed.


----------



## Ghisy

FullCircle said:


> The fact that there is a new chip roll out every few months or so, keeps prices suppressed as manufacturers fear their products will become obsolete.


This is partially why I'm not investing in TWS. They are disposable IEMs unfortunately, given their battery will die sooner or later. This and no lossless codec for now.

I'll be waiting and seeing what happens in a few months/years. I just got the Final ZE3000 a few weeks ago (less than $100 for them, like new) and they sound good enough. I can see the convenience of not having wires but SQ isn't there yet.


----------



## erockg

FullCircle said:


> I don't think it is a matter of theft (just my take.)
> 
> Some housings are "open mold" meaning a manufacturer has invested time/money/effort in designing the housing and the housing is open to anyone wanting to buy their tws. The TWS will be tweaked to certain specifications, color schemes, internals parts etc according to the manufacturers / buyers requests.
> 
> ...


I appreciate the insight.  Thank you.  This all makes sense and happy you clarified my thoughts.

I remember the Falcon Pro and the Lypertek had a similar mold.  Had them both at one time.  Falcon Pro were tuned so much better IMO.


----------



## natalieann (Dec 13, 2022)

FullCircle said:


> The fact that there is a new chip roll out every few months or so, keeps prices suppressed as manufacturers fear their products will become obsolete.


----------



## natalieann

SynaestheticA said:


> The suss thing here is how they made a tws their cheapest product on the roster, surely it's more expensive to design a tws than wired iems?


SUSS...Oh dear lord!


----------



## C_Lindbergh (Dec 13, 2022)

Well, usually a new SoC just offers modest improvements, but chips that supports LE Audio/LC3 will be a game changer for this product segment. That's why I'm looking forward to TWS next year with the latest Qualcomm SoC!

Give me a premium TWS with:

https://www.qualcomm.com/products/application/audio/qcc5100-series/qcc5171


----------



## dweaver

The only issue I have is that many of these new standards are just not adopted. This reminds me of Betamax vs VHS or the 2 DVD standards. Looking at APTx a lot of companies have started to abandon it due to licensing costs. Companies that were supporting APTx have switched to LDAC or stuck with just AAC and SBC. This also is caused by the phone side of the fence too. Samsung not supporting anything higher than APTx for example.

Snapdragon doesn't seem to have a large support base on phones etc.


----------



## SynaestheticA

Had a thought on source material and sound quality. If your music is mostly electronic made on a computer (let's ignore real hardware like the Roland 303) is the track only ever going to sound so good? 

Would a $2,000 wired over ear with that light bulb looking DAC box convey more of a track or does the software the music was made on become the limiting factor without all of the intricacies of a physical instrument?

And to bring it back to TWS, would a tws become just as good at sending SQ through as something wired?


----------



## Caipirina

project86 said:


> Thanks, I will look into both suggestions. So far this week we have tried the JBL 130NC, Kenwood WS-A1, Creative Outlier Gold, Sennheiser Momentum 2, RHA True Connect II, and a few other cheap no-name really small TWS models. Some fit ok but none really isolated very well, even with ANC active.


looks like the B6 can still be found on AliExpress 
US $53.70 | High quality B6 TWS Earphones Qcc3020 V5.0 Apt-X Wireless Earbuds Noise Cancellation CVC 8.0 Built-in Mic Hands Free Headsets
https://a.aliexpress.com/_mOk19hC


----------



## Caipirina

mikp said:


> i was not supposed to, but too weak to resist at this price


Nice! I am only able to get them down to just a tad under 40$ ... I have the original ones and they are great for that price area . hearing they now even have better ANC, at that price makes them a winner ...   but alas, I really have given up on hoarding more and more cheapos .. I keep rotating my higher end models and there are some that should get more play time, but just don;t ...  so, no more new stuff for me for a while ... maybe the APP 2 in 3 weeks ..


----------



## tiagopinto (Dec 15, 2022)

C_Lindbergh said:


> Well, usually a new SoC just offers modest improvements, but chips that supports LE Audio/LC3 will be a game changer for this product segment. That's why I'm looking forward to TWS next year with the latest Qualcomm SoC!
> 
> Give me a premium TWS with:
> 
> https://www.qualcomm.com/products/application/audio/qcc5100-series/qcc5171



Exactly. I keep stalling my impulse (and need) to get better sound on a TWS simply waiting for this to hit the market. CA MT still goin’... (sigh)

If I didn’t know about it, maybe I’d already have gotten the APP2 or the TWX9 or the Free Byrd... but I don’t want to spend 250 to 300 bucks on something which would become (for me) instantly obsolete. (Same for full size cans. Still rockin’ the A50, wishing for the PX8 kind of sound. And here we’re looking at 700 bucks)


----------



## helmutcheese

Skip the Free Byrd trust me.


----------



## subguy812 (Dec 16, 2022)

I still feel the EX and the TWX9 have the best sound and other features. It just depends on the hierarchy of your wants in an TWS. If it is ANC, there aren't the best available.


----------



## clerkpalmer

erockg said:


> Campfire Audio Orbit came in today.  I have to admit, these things sound great without EQ.  Full, wide soundstage.  Great separation for a TWS.  Decent bass/sub-bass.  Case is super light, small and  pocketable.  Buds fit well with aftermarket tips.  Azla to the rescue.  Full touch controls but no ANC or Transparency.  Probably missed something but they do have wireless charging.  I didn't they they did.  Prompted for a firmware update upon pairing.  Went smooth.  These things are tuned very nicely.  Leans toward the bass, but for me everting else is really really good for hard rock/metal.  Let the honeymoon phase commence...
> 
> Attached is a few comparison shot vs the AirPods Pro 2 and the Nuratrue Pro.


Still loving these?  No ANC gives me pause.  Even "no thank you ANC" is better than none.  Would you rate them higher than the EX for sound only?


----------



## erockg

clerkpalmer said:


> Still loving these?  No ANC gives me pause.  Even "no thank you ANC" is better than none.  Would you rate them higher than the EX for sound only?


I haven't A-B'd them.  I will say the soundstage, instrument separation and sub-bass is stellar on the Orbit.  I have been experiencing some bugs that are driving me mad.  Been talking to their CS rep to try and resolve or get a new pair.  The buds randomly connect when in the case.  Also, I get ghost pauses with the touch controls.  It's annoying.  That said, if this stuff gets worked out, they're really nice sounding buds.  I don't miss ANC or Transparency on them.


----------



## clerkpalmer

erockg said:


> I haven't A-B'd them.  I will say the soundstage, instrument separation and sub-bass is stellar on the Orbit.  I have been experiencing some bugs that are driving me mad.  Been talking to their CS rep to try and resolve or get a new pair.  The buds randomly connect when in the case.  Also, I get ghost pauses with the touch controls.  It's annoying.  That said, if this stuff gets worked out, they're really nice sounding buds.  I don't miss ANC or Transparency on them.


Tempting. Keep us posted on the bugs. Connecting while in the case is not acceptable. That takes me back to some infuriating times in tws infancy.


----------



## erockg

clerkpalmer said:


> Tempting. Keep us posted on the bugs. Connecting while in the case is not acceptable. That takes me back to some infuriating times in tws infancy.


Yes, it's quite frustrating.  Sound is stellar.  Been using them for the last half hour with no issues.  Not sure what is up.  Can't be an iPhone thing because all my other buds work fine.


----------



## erockg

clerkpalmer said:


> Tempting. Keep us posted on the bugs. Connecting while in the case is not acceptable. That takes me back to some infuriating times in tws infancy.





erockg said:


> Yes, it's quite frustrating.  Sound is stellar.  Been using them for the last half hour with no issues.  Not sure what is up.  Can't be an iPhone thing because all my other buds work fine.


Here's their reply as of a moment ago:  "... it looks like it's possible the shell pressing against your ear is triggering the touch function. Though I agree it doesn't look like it's fully contacting the touchpad. 

Orbit is pretty sticky in wanting to connect to your device, which is great for reconnecting, but it can sometimes make them reconnect while in the case. We are looking to address this. Though not ideal, if it is persistent, it can help to turn off Bluetooth in between uses."

So far so good today, but definitely consider the above before anyone purchases.  May not happen to all, but is/was randomly happening to me for the last few days (not today).


----------



## clerkpalmer

erockg said:


> Here's their reply as of a moment ago:  "... it looks like it's possible the shell pressing against your ear is triggering the touch function. Though I agree it doesn't look like it's fully contacting the touchpad.
> 
> Orbit is pretty sticky in wanting to connect to your device, which is great for reconnecting, but it can sometimes make them reconnect while in the case. We are looking to address this. Though not ideal, if it is persistent, it can help to turn off Bluetooth in between uses."
> 
> So far so good today, but definitely consider the above before anyone purchases.  May not happen to all, but is/was randomly happening to me for the last few days (not today).


Lol. “Sticky”. Not “faulty”. And turning off Bluetooth is a deal breaker. Thanks for sharing.


----------



## faithguy19

I have also picked up the Campfire Audio Orbit and it has quickly become my favorite for sound.  I am actually surprised i haven't been missing the extra features.  Just so immersed in the music which is kinda refreshing.


----------



## Steve_72

subguy812 said:


> I still feel the EX and the TWX9 have the best sound and other features. It just depends on the hierarchy of your wants in an IEM. If it is ANC, there aren't the best available.


Definitely agree on the TWX9. I went to audition the CA Orbit the day of release fully intending to buy them but wound up walking out with the TWX9. They eclipse some of my wired IEMs and have a such a large sound that straddles the line between headphones and IEMs. Definitely one of my most satisfying audio purchases to date.


----------



## BooleanBones

Steve_72 said:


> Definitely agree on the TWX9. I went to audition the CA Orbit the day of release fully intending to buy them but wound up walking out with the TWX9. They eclipse some of my wired IEMs and have a such a large sound that straddles the line between headphones and IEMs. Definitely one of my most satisfying audio purchases to date.


You guys are killing me. I had finally talked myself out of "needing" these.


----------



## erockg

BooleanBones said:


> You guys are killing me. I had finally talked myself out of "needing" these.


You don't need them.  I flipped mine!


----------



## BooleanBones

erockg said:


> You don't need them.  I flipped mine!


Thanks for talking me off the ledge  I am also really happy those CAs don't come in nicer colors. Not even tempting me.


----------



## Steve_72

BooleanBones said:


> Thanks for talking me off the ledge  I am also really happy those CAs don't come in nicer colors. Not even tempting me.



Sorry for the temptation 😆. For what it’s worth though, these are stellar wireless earbuds in my experience! Perhaps my choice if I had to give up all but one piece of audio gear.


----------



## erockg

BooleanBones said:


> Thanks for talking me off the ledge  I am also really happy those CAs don't come in nicer colors. Not even tempting me.


I didn't think I'd like the color too, but they look much nicer in person.  I'm always into black.


----------



## voicemaster

Any tws recommendation for sound quality under $75?


----------



## BigZ12 (Dec 15, 2022)

Fiio FW5 - first impressions.

Bought at AliExpress for $134.99 (Fiio Official Store)

Good:
- Sounds amazing with the included balanced medium tips (will do a tip roll later anyway). Really good in every aspect. By far the best TWS I've heard (but keep in my mind I stopped buying TWS after Senn' MTW3). I'm not sure I will use my newly bought Ikko OH10 and ITB03 much now  
- They play loud!!
- They fit me very good. Very light and comfortable. Almost like I can't feel wearing them. (was a bit sceptical to this due to their build/form)
- No driver flex or other artifacts with the fit.
- BT range is VERY good. Extremely stable (Tested with AAC on iPhone 14 Pro Max, will test AptX Adaptive from Creative BT-W4 later)
- Codec support is great. SBC, AAC, AptX Adaptive and LHDC.
- They look cool 
- There is a Fiio App with OTA firmware updates, battery info, etc
- All controls done with physical buttons. (2 on each bud). Incl volume (not the phone's volume, but the buds')
- Taken 2 calls, and both said they heard me loud and clear
- Impressive hardware. Qualcomm QCC5141 + independent AKM DAC/Amp AK4332. 1 Dynamic Driver 2 Balanced Armature.

Not so good:
- No ANC or transparent mode.
- The mentioned app doesn't have en EQ.
- The case is kind of cheaply built. Plasticky with a "flimsy" cover etc..
- No wireless charging
- The buds are also light and kind of "plasticky" in a way, but not sure if that is negative since it makes them very comfortable to wear. What I'm trying to say is that they don't feel like a premium product when holding them.
- No multipoint connection (I think)
- No in-ear detection

A set of TWS that's made for sound, looks and nothing else I guess 

Any questions?


----------



## MelodyMood

SynaestheticA said:


> And he's back. What brand did you end up getting?


Jabra Elite 3. The price was $119 but some discount + some points from my Telco so I ended up getting it at almost half price.


SynaestheticA said:


> @MelodyMood also I guess everyone has better things to do than encourage an argument with you regarding tws. . . But not me.
> 
> I think you're discounting a lot of what is good about tws. For me this product is one of the more exciting things to collect. You're discounting first of all the convenience of having no cords, the cool designs companies come up with and all of the extra features that the buds offer along with the improvements of these aspects.


These companies are making people fool. There is no convenience in having BT Earphones. Keeping BT on all the time will drain your battery like anything. 2nd and my very basic question to all these so called innovative people, why do they think that removing headphone jack is necessary to use BT Earphones? Bluetooth was there even 5, 10 or 15, 20 years ago also in phones along with Headphone Jack. So why do they need to remove it. The reason is simple, so they can force users to buy their bull TWS for $200 and $300 price and irony is, that while they are making the consumer fool, they can still make them realise that they (consumers) are getting something best  


SynaestheticA said:


> Everything from the case to the fit to the feel make tws more fun to have with you than wired iems or over earphones.
> 
> Also some people here will disagree with me, but I think some tws are superior to some cabled iems in sound quality. I haven't purchased a $300 pair of wired iems before but I do get better sound quality and imaging from some of my TWS than I do from $150 audio Technica wired buds.
> 
> Also on a pure enjoyment basis, I enjoy using TWS for listening as much or more than my Beyerdynamic DT 770.


There is no match of any TWS (even $10000 one) with Beyerdynamic DT 770. You cannot compare it at all. It is like you are comparing some 4th world country car model (after paying $100k) with latest model of Mercedes (paying same amount) and still saying that both are good. 


SynaestheticA said:


> Plus the absolute joy of working out and running with TWS beats any over ear or wired iems for the same purpose.
> 
> Even if I'm wrong, this thread is a group of people who think this technology is exciting so subjectivise all you want with us, it won't work because we can subjectivise back harder and better.


This is only Scam and not more than that. I am sure in few years someone will unearth this scam and shut down these companies in no time.


----------



## BigZ12

BigZ12 said:


> Fiio FW5 - first impressions.


Forgot to mention I got a Leatherette case for the FW5 included. To my surprise there was a bag of what looks like Spinfit tips? 4 sizes, with the typical blue/green/red/dark blue colors on the stem.
So i got 10 different tips included in total.


----------



## MelodyMood

Question to test the technical understanding of you all: 

How many of you actually believe that removing Headphone Jack was absolutely necessary for Bluetooth (earphones) to work and if both are present in the phone, then BT earphones will not work. If so then how does it work is many phones which has headphone jack and BT both?


----------



## helmutcheese

BigZ12 said:


> Bought at AliExpress for $134.99 (Fiio Official Store)
> 
> Good:
> - Sounds amazing with the included balanced medium tips (will do a tip roll later anyway). Really good in every aspect. By far the best TWS I've heard (but keep in my mind I stopped buying TWS after Senn' MTW3). I'm not sure I will use my newly bought Ikko OH10 and ITB03 much now
> ...



Are you sure about AMB/Trans?


----------



## BigZ12

helmutcheese said:


> Are you sure about AMB/Trans?


I'm not now  I will try, but will have to wait until tomorrow. (01:04 AM now, so zzzzz) 
Thanks for the tip!


----------



## SynaestheticA

BigZ12 said:


> A set of TWS that's made for sound, looks and nothing else I guess
> 
> Any questions?



How is fit stability? Wanting to get a pair of SQ focused buds but will be using for running and gym.


----------



## BigZ12 (Dec 15, 2022)

SynaestheticA said:


> How is fit stability? Wanting to get a pair of SQ focused buds but will be using for running and gym.


I don't think I want to recommend them for this purpose. I can see that in especially smaller ears than mine, they can move too much with exercising. And also stick out. This is soo individual.
I can "shake my head off" and they are stable, but again they have a special form that I think some can have problems with.

Edit: Hopefully others who own them can chime in on this?


----------



## SynaestheticA (Dec 15, 2022)

MelodyMood said:


> Question to test the technical understanding of you all:
> 
> How many of you actually believe that removing Headphone Jack was absolutely necessary for Bluetooth (earphones) to work and if both are present in the phone, then BT earphones will not work. If so then how does it work is many phones which has headphone jack and BT both?



I dont know what you think we believe here but no one disagrees with you regarding the removal of the 3.5mm jack. That has literally nothing to do with our interest in TWS, you'd be better off finding a Catholic group on Facebook and arguing with them about atheism.

There are like 8 phone brands but 50+ tws brands so your little conspiracy might be true but is irrelevant for noble, Cambridge audio, audio technica, etc

I wouldn't be using cabled iems for my purpose regardless. And btw, you can find plenty of phones with a headphone jack, both of my phone's have them and guess who doesn't use them?


----------



## SynaestheticA

BigZ12 said:


> I don't think I want to recommend them for this purpose. I can see that in particularly smaller ears than mine, they can move too much with exercising. And also stick out. This is soo individual.
> I can "shake my head off" and they are stable, but again they have a special form that I think some can have problems with.
> 
> Edit: Hopefully others who own them can chime on this?



Damn, so many good buds out right now that don't seem appropriate for sports. I've got a savings account ready to go for any bud that can give me top SQ focus and sports use. 

I'd say I have regular sized ears, never had a problem with fit on any pair other than some Audioflys which I threw out day 1. 

If I put foam tips on do you see this helping?

Thanks for the reply.


----------



## MelodyMood (Dec 15, 2022)

SynaestheticA said:


> I dont know what you think we believe here but no one disagrees with you regarding the removal of the 3.5mm jack. That has literally nothing to do with our interest in TWS, you'd be better off finding a Catholic group on Facebook and arguing with them about atheism.
> 
> There are like 8 phone brands but 50+ tws brands so your little conspiracy might be true but is irrelevant for noble, Cambridge audio, audio technica, etc


It's not little conspiracy. It's big scam.


SynaestheticA said:


> I wouldn't be using cabled iems for my purpose regardless. And btw, you can find plenty of phones with a headphone jack, both of my phone's have them and guess who doesn't use them?


Do you consider them even a phone? They are joke on the name of the phones. Even 10 years older models were better than these. They are crap mediocre handset with ultra slow 480, 695 or Dimensity 700, 800, 900 or 1000 processor with 3-4 GB RAM, not even FHD Display and weight and size like a tablet or even compact laptop.

Just because someone wants to use Wired Earphones, he should compromise on quality and buy these mediocre  low quality ultra-slow phones? Why?


----------



## SoundChoice

I hate that RCA stopped making phonograph record needles, so I must troll some Spotify forums.


----------



## Caipirina

helmutcheese said:


> Skip the Free Byrd trust me.


Why? They were my favs until the Bose QC II arrived ...


----------



## regancipher

ASUS ZenFone 9 is one of a number of their phones that has a headphone jack. Same with Sony Experia 1 & 5 IV. Plenty of ZTE phones too, all Snapdragon 8 Gen 1 or above. 

I wouldn't call that a massive compromise.


----------



## felix3650

BigZ12 said:


> Fiio FW5 - first impressions.
> 
> Bought at AliExpress for $134.99 (Fiio Official Store)
> 
> ...


Were the calls in a noisy or quiet environment?
What about passive noise isolation? Just like any normal (ie closed resin shell) IEM or slightly worse?

Also, could you try something for me? Use Fiio's or Hiby's audio player (android or ios, based on what you use) and enable the HWA option. Do you notice any improvement on the audio quality?


helmutcheese said:


> Are you sure about AMB/Trans?


So they heard my advice on placing transparency mode on the double-click of the primary button  (or more specifically, it was a typo on their marketing material lol).


----------



## BigZ12

felix3650 said:


> Were the calls in a noisy or quiet environment?
> What about passive noise isolation? Just like any normal (ie closed resin shell) IEM or slightly worse?
> 
> Also, could you try something for me? Use Fiio's or Hiby's audio player (android or ios, based on what you use) and enable the HWA option. Do you notice any improvement on the audio quality?
> ...


- Calls were in quiet enviroment. Haven't tested more with calls yet. 

- Passive noise isolation is normal I guess. Use the large Spinfits now, and have a good seal. (Bass is very good) MTW3 with good seal have better passive noise isolation, I must say.

- Can't find the HWA option. (Fiio Audio player on iOS). Can't say I hear any difference when going back and forth from Apple Music and the Fiio player.

- There's no transparency mode. Double click the secondary buttons on both sides trigger Siri. 



SynaestheticA said:


> Damn, so many good buds out right now that don't seem appropriate for sports. I've got a savings account ready to go for any bud that can give me top SQ focus and sports use.
> 
> I'd say I have regular sized ears, never had a problem with fit on any pair other than some Audioflys which I threw out day 1.
> 
> ...


I don't have foam tips that fit them. Too broad stem. 

I think they would be a very good fit for me with sports use. 

BUT, I don't want to recommend something that cost $135 and then you hate them 

The fit of these TWS are so individual. Either you have to try them first, or just take a chance.

I'm like you, have ears that's made for in-ears/TWS. All have good fit, sometimes "too good". 
For instance, the Devialet Geminis were useless with ANC for me, because the bud were placed too snug in the left ear. That made the mics pick up movements when chewing, running etc..


----------



## felix3650 (Dec 16, 2022)

BigZ12 said:


> - Calls were in quiet enviroment. Haven't tested more with calls yet.
> 
> - Passive noise isolation is normal I guess. Use the large Spinfits now, and have a good seal. (Bass is very good) MTW3 with good seal have better passive noise isolation, I must say.
> 
> ...


On android it's under Settings. I don't know if the ios version has it




Thanks for the call and isolation feedback.
Maybe they will add the ambient mode in the next firmware update and the manual instruction is just a placeholder.


----------



## BigZ12

felix3650 said:


> On android it's under Settings. I don't know if the ios version has it
> 
> 
> 
> ...


No HWA under settings in iOS.


----------



## subguy812

BooleanBones said:


> Thanks for talking me off the ledge  I am also really happy those CAs don't come in nicer colors. Not even tempting me.


Need and want are two different things. I forget what you currently own


----------



## helmutcheese

Caipirina said:


> Why? They were my favs until the Bose QC II arrived ...


For me poor fit, really sore/open wounds after 2-3days (where the edge meets with the charge contacts digs in).

Poor sound too boomy and ANC/AMB near non-existent, basically like a lot of the comments on Amazon UK/US.

All those extra controls (tap then hold) and you cannot power on/off (and possible pair) from the buds.


----------



## faithguy19 (Dec 16, 2022)

That's a bummer. I am a big fan of the free byrds and didn't have any fit issues.  I was concerned due to my small ears/canals but all good and great sound especially once personalized for me.


----------



## Ghisy

Have you guys seen this?

https://9to5google.com/2022/12/14/oppo-marisilicon-y-bluetooth/

Seems like 24-bit/192kHz lossless via Bluetooth is coming soon! Now we're talking.


----------



## helmutcheese (Dec 16, 2022)

I am 6 feet tall so have larger ears than say a teen or female but not "big ears" but I do have large canals so I could press these further in than people with small ears that I read some also had fit issues with.

I need 14mm (XL) tips and would love to try larger, I have a good selection of SpinFit's range and AZLA SednaEarfit's range


----------



## helmutcheese (Dec 16, 2022)

Seen something similar before we had aptX Lossless (CD 16/44.1k) about to hit but it was a Chinese phone (the banned one AFAIR) and it only worked with their phone and earbuds as propriety tech, it was not 24/192k AFAIK.


----------



## Steve_72

https://www.ecoustics.com/products/klipsch-t10-ear-computers/

“Pricing ranges from $2,500 - $5,000”?




Don’t imagine too many will be queuing up for these ..


----------



## erockg

Steve_72 said:


> https://www.ecoustics.com/products/klipsch-t10-ear-computers/
> 
> “Pricing ranges from $2,500 - $5,000”?
> 
> ...


Nope, none of us.  They were supposed to come out a year or so ago.  Talk pops up on here every few months.  Hard pass.  Sad.


----------



## dweaver

that is the craziest thing I have seen for a TWS, I can't imagine Klipsch sold more than a handful of those... Totally insane.


----------



## Luke Skywalker

FullCircle said:


> Ken is all gold, great friend & mentor.


Big shout out to Noble. I was so astounded with the FoKus Pro that I picked up Kublai Khan. Absolutely magnificent


----------



## clerkpalmer

dweaver said:


> that is the craziest thing I have seen for a TWS, I can't imagine Klipsch sold more than a handful of those... Totally insane.


It's hard to believe that highly compensated and presumably smart people green lit this project.  Maybe I'm out of touch.  I mean people pay $3,000 for LV purses so I guess maybe their is a market.  I'll see if my wife would prefer these to that purse ...


----------



## Aevum

thought i give the Soundpeats mini HS a try, theres a 25% coupon in amazon spain, so i ended up buying them for 49€ shipped
https://www.amazon.es/SoundPEATS-Au...+pro+hd&qid=1671230555&sprefix=,aps,86&sr=8-3


----------



## subguy812

clerkpalmer said:


> It's hard to believe that highly compensated and presumably smart people green lit this project.  Maybe I'm out of touch.  I mean people pay $3,000 for LV purses so I guess maybe their is a market.  I'll see if my wife would prefer these to that purse ...


To me wireless hasn't advanced to wired levels, not close. It is greatly improved, but I don't mind as much spending  big bucks for wired.  I don't like how expensive the wired market has become and feel there are diminishing returns, but I think we are a ways off from those prices in wireless, thank God.


----------



## mikp

Caipirina said:


> Nice! I am only able to get them down to just a tad under 40$ ... I have the original ones and they are great for that price area . hearing they now even have better ANC, at that price makes them a winner ...   but alas, I really have given up on hoarding more and more cheapos .. I keep rotating my higher end models and there are some that should get more play time, but just don;t ...  so, no more new stuff for me for a while ... maybe the APP 2 in 3 weeks ..


I have not high hopes for the  mini pro ldac, but the price. My main are mtw3, the tronsmart apollo bold were good but -20C seemes to have crashed  them-

the old jabra 65t seems to survive everything but sounds very dull,


----------



## Blueshound24

In case anyone is interested, this was just posted here on our "Deals" thread, thanks to @evantilu.
Has anyone tried the MU3? Worth trying?



> KEF is (as they usually do) having holiday sales. Mostly speakers but also a few headphones like MU3 ($229->$129)
> https://us.kef.com/pages/specials


----------



## Firevortex

Any one here heard the Nuarl Next1 yet? I've asked our local stockist for an opinion and they've said wide sound stage is gone with out HDSS, sounds sibilance and thin, took me by surprise as Nuarl has put out great sounding earbuds. they recommended me my N10pro and was spot on with it's sound but they don't recommend the Next1.


----------



## Canabuc

I keep wanting to upgrade my AZ60 but truthfully from all I am reading there is nothing substantially better.
Might hold off u til next year when we finally get lossless tws.


----------



## Hozay

BigZ12 said:


> Fiio FW5 - first impressions.
> 
> Bought at AliExpress for $134.99 (Fiio Official Store)
> 
> ...


Hi, I would like to ask if you tested LHDC codec with FW5? I am still kinda confused how to use LHDC on TWS, I only know some Android phones supports it but I dont have. And I dont know if any transmitter supports LHDC so I can use it on my PC.


----------



## helmutcheese (Dec 17, 2022)

They don't but a page or so back someone said you can run LHDC in another mode via the FiiO App, I cannot confirm as mine are stuck with the crappy Royal Mail.

I have had 2 sets of buds with LHDC but did not know about that setting and was noy FiiO so would not matter unless others have a similar setting.

*EDIT: 

Quote: "Otherwise you have Hiby's and Fiio's apps which can transmit HWA which is basically LHDC in software"*


----------



## SynaestheticA

Firevortex said:


> Any one here heard the Nuarl Next1 yet? I've asked our local stockist for an opinion and they've said wide sound stage is gone with out HDSS, sounds sibilance and thin, took me by surprise as Nuarl has put out great sounding earbuds. they recommended me my N10pro and was spot on with it's sound but they don't recommend the Next1.


Had the same feedback, shame cause I liked the style and expected good things from Nuarl. Apparently something else coming out in Jan/Feb with HDSS, hoping it's a continuation of the N6 line, even the Mini as it's my most used bud atm.


----------



## SynaestheticA

Canabuc said:


> I keep wanting to upgrade my AZ60 but truthfully from all I am reading there is nothing substantially better.
> Might hold off u til next year when we finally get lossless tws.


Was asking my local stockist about the Campfire Orbit and Noble Fokus for sports and they recommended the AZ60 as the best all rounder.


----------



## Dsnuts

New Fiio FW5 is kick ass. You think your TWS stuff sounds good. These have a dedicated AK4332 DAC chip in them and it makes a difference. Its the same DAC chip Fiio used on their UTWS5 arms but integrated to a greater effect on the FW5. My take on the new Fiio FW5.  



https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/fiio-fw5.26235/review/29795/


----------



## chinmie

mikp said:


> I have not high hopes for the  mini pro ldac, but the price. My main are mtw3, the tronsmart apollo bold were good but -20C seemes to have crashed  them-
> 
> the old jabra 65t seems to survive everything but sounds very dull,



I don't use my Apollo Bold for music, but it's a beast for watching movies and gaming that it sits permanently on my TV room table.. Really love that old thing.


----------



## helmutcheese (Dec 17, 2022)

Apolo Bold were one of worse ever for me, totally overhyped release.

@mikp, The SoundPeats Mini Pro HS seemed to have touch sensor issuee for me the other day due to the cold weather (-4 to -7 and -9c with the windchill) if you remember the WH-1000XM3 (or was it the 4's) had this issue.


----------



## chinmie

helmutcheese said:


> Apolo Bold were one of worse ever for me, totally overhyped release.
> 
> @mikp, The SoundPeats Mini Pro HS seemed to have touch sensor issue for me the other day due to the cold weather (-4 to -7 and -9c with the windchill) if you remember the WH-1000XM3 (or was it the 4's) had this issue.



I agree for music. the bass is too overwhelming, mids sounds distant, and treble slightly veiled /subdued. But i found that specific for movies (and casual gaming), that same tuning makes the sound big like listening in movie theater, and the slightly subdued treble makes it enjoyable for really long listening, added bonus is the long battery life even for today's standard.

Have you tried the Soundcore Dot 3i? It has buttons instead of touch sensors, so it might work nicely for cold weather. A word of caution though, in stock/preset tunings it has overwhelming bass too like the Apollo Bold, but one saving grace is that this one can be custom EQ ed, and i found that after removing the bass, the sound is really good


----------



## helmutcheese (Dec 17, 2022)

Nope, do not think I will buy Anker/Soundcore or a few others again, lets be honest 90% of TWS have been disappointing so far and I have had quite a lot low/med and high end.

New FiiO FW5's have been sat at airport due to postal strike.

My dailies are my Soundpeats Sonic Pro's (buttons) and indoors use the Soundpeats H1's but not keen on them so much due to some issues never fixed.

For Hi-Res I use my FiiO Neckband+FiiOFH5's and for wired FiiO FH7's.


----------



## ZMan2k2

helmutcheese said:


> Nope, do not think I will buy Anker/Soundcore or a few others again, lets be honest 90% of TWS have been disappointing so far and I have had quite a lot low/med and high end.
> 
> New FiiO FW5's have been sat at airport due to postal strike.
> 
> ...



I feel as though, reading some of your posts, that you and I have similar tastes in sonic signatures, especially based on your list of gear.  I will be very interested in your opinion of the FW5’s if and when you get them.


----------



## X-Nemesis

regancipher said:


> Taking a little break when I chatted to him last. He has done a couple of reviews since then (I'm guessing stuff he had committed to completing)


Thanks for the update


----------



## bemymonkey

Hey guys, I'm looking at getting a BT20-style wireless adapter for my CCA C12s. Which one would you guys recommend at this time?

Bonus points if it supports multipoint with at least two connected devices...


----------



## Firevortex

SynaestheticA said:


> Had the same feedback, shame cause I liked the style and expected good things from Nuarl. Apparently something else coming out in Jan/Feb with HDSS, hoping it's a continuation of the N6 line, even the Mini as it's my most used bud atm.


its priced at $220 USD for the NEXT1. i think they're out of their minds charging this type of money for no stand out functions or sound. i was expecting even larger sound stage with more clarity given it's their "flagship". the Fiio FW5 with its dac and snapdragon sound looks to be a better tech and $70USD cheaper.


----------



## Dsnuts (Dec 18, 2022)

A bit about the Fiio FW5. They aren't perfect, heck I don't know if there is a perfect TWS product. But it does so much right for the price point, especially sound quality. I have been testing them for the past month using my phone, my Fiio M15 DAP, My laptop. The sound quality is consistent.  It really doesn't matter what you connect them to. They sound superb for media due to how dynamic and spacious they sound. I am talking about, movies, gaming and especially music listening.

I am an IEM reviewer. I have reviewed Fiios top flagship IEMs that cost $599. Referring to the FH9 and the FD7 both are outstanding. I can honestly say at the $135 price Fiio is asking for one of these. It is an absolute bargain for the sound quality. Let me put it this way. I don't think they have a hybrid IEM that cost that much that sounds like these. The closest one they have is the current FH5S which sells for $250 and the FW5 is actually tuned better. It turns out the team responsible for Fiios FH9 flagship hybrids are responsible for the FW5 tuning. It clearly shows too. Fiio this year has been on a new level like I have never seen a company do before. I am lucky to have an insight into their offerings.

Of all the folks that needs to check out a set of their newest it is you guys. I am willing to bet you. Your more expensive TWS stuff is not going to sound better. If your even remotely interested. They happen to be on sale with an added leatherette sleeve and from what I read some extra tips.

They don't sound like your traditional TWS product at all. They sound like a nicely tuned hybrid IEM connected to a powerful source is the best way I can describe them. Fiio is testing the FW5 to see how well it is received. If they sell enough of them, they will probably produce even better stuff in the future. More than that. You guys gotta hear these things. I am so blown away by them I am getting another set to give to a good friend of mine. Cus these are the gift you give to your best friend that has no idea.


----------



## felix3650

Hozay said:


> Hi, I would like to ask if you tested LHDC codec with FW5? I am still kinda confused how to use LHDC on TWS, I only know some Android phones supports it but I dont have. And I dont know if any transmitter supports LHDC so I can use it on my PC.





helmutcheese said:


> They don't but a page or so back someone said you can run LHDC in another mode via the FiiO App, I cannot confirm as mine are stuck with the crappy Royal Mail.
> 
> I have had 2 sets of buds with LHDC but did not know about that setting and was noy FiiO so would not matter unless others have a similar setting.
> 
> ...


I talked about LHDC in software form on both Fiio's and Hiby's apps (aka HWA).
My FW5 are coming soon so I will be testing things out. I'll do a comparison between the LHDC on a friend's OnePlus 9 Pro (native) and this LHDC (HWA) on my Asus Zenfone 6 which doesn't have it natively.


----------



## Canabuc

Well just like that I decided with a price drop to buy the galaxy buds pro 2 at Costco.
Figure as a Samsung phone user will get best sound from them.
Crinacle calls them best sounding tws.
Most importantly they apparently are Bluetooth 5.3 so will get LE when updated so more future proof than all the 5.2 buds out.


----------



## dweaver

I really like my GB2P, if you like there default signature they get everything else right for the most part. Wish they offered a proper customizable EQ and a bit more battery life. But the rest of the controls work extremely well and if you turn on the experimental features you can tap your ear lobe to turn the volume up (right) and down (left). Giving basically a full set of controls from the buds.

I have been having fun playing with JBL, Soundcore, and Sony but think I am going to flip all of those and buy the Fiio FW5. I have a feeling that TWS will give me all the musical aspects I want and the GB2P will give me all the ANC and all rounded features I need for daily use.


----------



## dweaver (Dec 18, 2022)

felix3650 said:


> I talked about LHDC in software form on both Fiio's and Hiby's apps (aka HWA).
> My FW5 are coming soon so I will be testing things out. I'll do a comparison between the LHDC on a friend's OnePlus 9 Pro (native) and this LHDC (HWA) on my Asus Zenfone 6 which doesn't have it natively.


Wait are you saying I get LHDC from the Fiio app? 

Wow if that so I will test on my UTWS5 and see what happens! 

I was starting to line up some TWS to sell to get the FW5 and that will hasten the process!

OK, so I installed the Fiio app and turned on HWA, is that all I need to do? If so I will compare some of my hires flac songs from Neutron player and then the Fiio player and report back my findings. All from the UTWS5/FH5 combo


----------



## erockg

Another wild hair led me to purchase the JVC HA-FW100T off Woot for $149.  Wow.  I do wish they had an app, but have to admit, the tuning is stellar and the clarity, soundstage and separation is excellent.  I was worried they wouldn't fit me, but with some Azla tips they work great.  Only negative so far is you have to crank them for some volume.  I know a few of you on here love these thing, and you're right, they're great.  Especially for the Woot price!

https://electronics.woot.com/offers...r-11mm-true-wirel?ref=w_cnt_lnd_cat_elec_3_29


----------



## dweaver

OK, so assuming turning on the HWA setting is the secret to using LHDC with my UTWS5/FH5 I picked through a few of my HiRes Flac files and did some A/B comparisons and the differences are not huge so out and about every day world activity I would suggest most people would have a hard time distinguishing them or care that much as they have distractions and competing sounds etc.

But there is a definite difference and in a quiet session where you want the best audio possible LHDC has more detail and sounds less etched than APTx which my Samsung defaults to. I listened to a couple of songs from Patricia Barber album Smash which is 24bit, 192kHz, 5697kbps and APTx makes her voice more sibilant and etched and lots of decay and subtle detail is lost through out the songs. LHDC on the other hand sounds more natural bringing in the decay of strings and cymbals and her voice sounds more natural.

I had similar results listening to JD Souther Natural History 24bit 48kHz, 1507kbps. His album is not quite as Hires as Patricia Barber but I could hear the same differences between APTx and LHDC which likely shows the limits of BT in regards to how much of the detail that can be transmitted.

I finally played some songs from Hans Zimmer Interstellar 24bit, 44.1kHz, 1209kbps, and the difference in the storm/wind sound in the song Dreaming of the Crash was stark between APTx and LHDC. In APTx it sounded very sharp and etched focusing on the edge of the wind and loosing the subtle detail. Similarly when the big organ kicked in there was a harder drone on the APTx but the detail was less. It's almost like an EQ shift on top of the change in detail. The wind and storm on the LHDC was more subtle and detailed and when the organ kicked in there was a bigger more expensive quality to it with way more detail. It didn't hit as hard as APTx but at the same time affected me emotionally more.

I don't own a ton of hires files so will not get this from everything I own as most of my flacs are my own rips from CD which will be no better than 16bit audio. But you can get better audio from LHDC if you have a lot of hires Flac music.


----------



## Canabuc

dweaver said:


> Wait are you saying I get LHDC from the Fiio app?
> 
> Wow if that so I will test on my UTWS5 and see what happens!
> 
> ...


Just read about the Fiio and it sounds very good. My only concern is that in an effort to get good sound the anc transparency call quality etc won't be as good.

I am a believer I want my tws to do everything. Great sound with good controls good and Mics etc.

Technics have been great only missing wireless charging and a bit more comfort for pronged wearing.
Sound is about 90%.

Am interested in something with dedicated drivers for highs and lows and good comfort.

The Huawei freebies pro 2 and Oppo which are harder to get both qualify.
The Lp3 do but think they are bulky and don't love shrill treble. Seems the GBP2 for the bill and Crinacle rates them tops for sound.
1more seem like another good option but are lacking in controls on bud.

GBP2 as a Samsung user intrigues me. Can control all features from the buds. Like the talk feature that triggers transparent mode. Also to have the higher res 24 bit sound. And only 1 I know with Bluetooth 5.3 so will get updated to the better codecs when released.

Am I missing any others?


----------



## dweaver

I hear you about wanting one device that can do it all. My budget is limited to the $200 point mostly so I can't comment on higher end stuff from companies like B&O. But I do like everything the GB2P does. I am just curious how far Fiio has moved the bar in terms of sound quality. My UTWS5/FH5 combo definitely sounds better than most TWS so if Fiio has taken that and been able to apply it to an actual TWS form factor it will be worth giving it a whirl. I know they did not have ambient initially on the UTWS5 so am hopeful that will get added and hopefully will be a step up from the UTWS5 implementation regarding not having hiss.


----------



## dweaver

Well, I have enjoyed all of these TWS but it's time to clean house. Each has it's merits but fall short on something.

So going to keep the GB2P (general daily driver) and the Soundcore A40 (work driver for Teams meetings due to longer battery life) and am going to buy the Fiio FW5 to see if Fiio has truly moved the sound quality bar at the $200CAD price range.


----------



## felix3650

dweaver said:


> OK, so assuming turning on the HWA setting is the secret to using LHDC with my UTWS5/FH5 I picked through a few of my HiRes Flac files and did some A/B comparisons and the differences are not huge so out and about every day world activity I would suggest most people would have a hard time distinguishing them or care that much as they have distractions and competing sounds etc.
> 
> But there is a definite difference and in a quiet session where you want the best audio possible LHDC has more detail and sounds less etched than APTx which my Samsung defaults to. I listened to a couple of songs from Patricia Barber album Smash which is 24bit, 192kHz, 5697kbps and APTx makes her voice more sibilant and etched and lots of decay and subtle detail is lost through out the songs. LHDC on the other hand sounds more natural bringing in the decay of strings and cymbals and her voice sounds more natural.
> 
> ...


Something you need to consider: the UTWS5 is capped at max 600kbps LHDC. That's what it'll negotiate with the Tx device. The FW5 on the other hand gets the full 900kbps.

If only Neutron got something similar to a BT encoder with its 64bit engine.. Ah wishful thinking


----------



## Canabuc

dweaver said:


> Well, I have enjoyed all of these TWS but it's time to clean house. Each has it's merits but fall short on something.
> 
> So going to keep the GB2P (general daily driver) and the Soundcore A40 (work driver for Teams meetings due to longer battery life) and am going to buy the Fiio FW5 to see if Fiio has truly moved the sound quality bar at the $200CAD price range.


Where will you buy it?


----------



## dweaver

Going to dip my toes into AlieExpress more than likely. So won't see this till mid end of January


----------



## dweaver

felix3650 said:


> Something you need to consider: the UTWS5 is capped at max 600kbps LHDC. That's what it'll negotiate with the Tx device. The FW5 on the other hand gets the full 900kbps.
> 
> If only Neutron got something similar to a BT encoder with its 64bit engine.. Ah wishful thinking


Still sounded darn good even if it was only 600kbps. But if the FW5 can do 900kbps all the better  would.love it of the Neutron player did that BTW. It would awesome!


----------



## dweaver

Just looked new phones and damned if everyone is not dropping SD cards, so stupid. Might be sticking with my S20 for another year and saving for something I buy out right that supports what I want versus the run of the mill stuff offered by cell providers. I want SD, possibly snap dragon, hopefully LHDC, LDAC, and APTx latest whatever... LOL might have to start to look in the phone section of head-fi to see what's what...


----------



## SynaestheticA (Dec 18, 2022)

dweaver said:


> Just looked new phones and damned if everyone is not dropping SD cards, so stupid. Might be sticking with my S20 for another year and saving for something I buy out right that supports what I want versus the run of the mill stuff offered by cell providers. I want SD, possibly snap dragon, hopefully LHDC, LDAC, and APTx latest whatever... LOL might have to start to look in the phone section of head-fi to see what's what...


Using Oppo Reno 8 Lite and just discovered it has LDAC thanks to your above post. It's not a superstar phone by any means but I picked it specifically because I download all my music from Bandcamp in FLAC and needed the SD card space (Which i've been told you can't get in flagships anymore) as well as a 3.5mm which I actually hardly use but will continue demanding as a principle. Was editing a video on my phone the other day and just can't cut/edit things accurately with TWS latency, tried every bud I have, wires seem absolutely essential for this and considering so many phones advertise their camera and editing ability the whole thing is just ridiculous .... but now I'm starting to sound like MelodyMood.



dweaver said:


> Going to dip my toes into AlieExpress more than likely. So won't see this till mid end of January


I ordered mine last night through Hifigo who advertised priority shipping at the same time frame as Alixpress express shipping. First time using Hifigo though so hoping for the best.

Looking forward to your comments on the FW5 compared to the GBudsP 2, almost got those because of your recommendations but before I knew it you were having a ball with JBL and I couldn't keep up


----------



## nekonhime

erockg said:


> Another wild hair led me to purchase the JVC HA-FW100T off Woot for $149.  Wow.  I do wish they had an app, but have to admit, the tuning is stellar and the clarity, soundstage and separation is excellent.  I was worried they wouldn't fit me, but with some Azla tips they work great.  Only negative so far is you have to crank them for some volume.  I know a few of you on here love these thing, and you're right, they're great.  Especially for the Woot price!
> 
> https://electronics.woot.com/offers...r-11mm-true-wirel?ref=w_cnt_lnd_cat_elec_3_29


That what I been saying lol, now try the kenwood ws 1ag


----------



## dweaver

SynaestheticA said:


> Using Oppo Reno 8 Lite and just discovered it has LDAC thanks to your above post. It's not a superstar phone by any means but I picked it specifically because I download all my music from Bandcamp in FLAC and needed the SD card space (Which i've been told you can't get in flagships anymore) as well as a 3.5mm which I actually hardly use but will continue demanding as a principle. Was editing a video on my phone the other day and just can't cut/edit things accurately with TWS latency, tried every bud I have, wires seem absolutely essential for this and considering so many phones advertise their camera and editing ability the whole thing is just ridiculous .... but now I'm starting to sound like MelodyMood.
> 
> 
> I ordered mine last night through Hifigo who advertised priority shipping at the same time frame as Alixpress express shipping. First time using Hifigo though so hoping for the best.
> ...


LOL, I like the JBL tuning. But do find their controls finicky and do notice the detail is a bit lacking. Glad I gave them a try though. But I am going to sell off everything in that one picture. Just way to many TWS.


----------



## dweaver

OK, I took the Interstellar song and played it using LDAC on the L3P using the default setting which is likely 330kbps and it sounded similar to the UTWS5 running APTx with the bass of the organ being very similar. I then fussed around in developer mode until I could get it to switch down to the 44.1kHz, 24bit, and using 606kbps and it then sounded close to LHDC on the UTWS5 minus the level of detail the FH5 provides compared to the L3P. So LDAC compares close to LHDC but requires a lot of fussing to get it to play nice.

But the UTWS5/FH5 is leaps ahead of the L3P and the GB2P for details and musical ability (tested same song on GB2P which should have used 24bit audio). So if they have made the FW5 sound even better than the UTWS5 combo I have, I will be darn happy.


----------



## erockg

nekonhime said:


> That what I been saying lol, now try the kenwood ws 1ag


Ugh.  Don’t temp me.


----------



## nekonhime

erockg said:


> Ugh.  Don’t temp me.


Just go for it. Just do it
Btw, how do you compare the sound of the 1000t to other top dogs like the Ex, and the Fokus?


----------



## felix3650

dweaver said:


> Just looked new phones and damned if everyone is not dropping SD cards, so stupid. Might be sticking with my S20 for another year and saving for something I buy out right that supports what I want versus the run of the mill stuff offered by cell providers. I want SD, possibly snap dragon, hopefully LHDC, LDAC, and APTx latest whatever... LOL might have to start to look in the phone section of head-fi to see what's what...


Sony still offers its flagships with Snapdragon 8 Gen 1 along a microSD and 3.5mm.


----------



## james444

erockg said:


> Only negative so far is you have to crank them for some volume.



Do you mean they don't go loud enough for you? If so, did you max out volume (repeatedly tap left earphone 3 times) on the earphones?

Just asking, because these are probably my loudest TWS, with a heft almost like full-sized headphones.


----------



## nekonhime

james444 said:


> Do you mean they don't go loud enough for you? If so, did you max out volume (repeatedly tap left earphone 3 times) on the earphones?
> 
> Just asking, because these are probably my loudest TWS, with a heft almost like full-sized headphones.


You can just adjust the volume by the phone anyway so it does not really matter


----------



## tiagopinto

Steve_72 said:


> https://www.ecoustics.com/products/klipsch-t10-ear-computers/
> 
> “Pricing ranges from $2,500 - $5,000”?
> 
> ...



And it’s not even April fools...


----------



## tiagopinto

clerkpalmer said:


> It's hard to believe that highly compensated and presumably smart people green lit this project.  Maybe I'm out of touch.  I mean people pay $3,000 for LV purses so I guess maybe their is a market.  I'll see if my wife would prefer these to that purse ...



Whenever I see women with LV or Goyard veritable *plastic* canvas purses, that we know cost 2.000 to 3.000 bucks I feel sooo much better with my audio, sneaker, gadget purchases at a fraction of the price. And that’s tech, leather, pleasure against a logo you show other people on the street.


----------



## Hozay

erockg said:


> Another wild hair led me to purchase the JVC HA-FW100T off Woot for $149.  Wow.  I do wish they had an app, but have to admit, the tuning is stellar and the clarity, soundstage and separation is excellent.  I was worried they wouldn't fit me, but with some Azla tips they work great.  Only negative so far is you have to crank them for some volume.  I know a few of you on here love these thing, and you're right, they're great.  Especially for the Woot price!
> 
> https://electronics.woot.com/offers...r-11mm-true-wirel?ref=w_cnt_lnd_cat_elec_3_29


Hi, may I ask how would you rate this FW1000T compare to ATH TWX-9? or your other TWS like B&O EX.


----------



## james444

nekonhime said:


> You can just adjust the volume by the phone anyway so it does not really matter



IME it does matter, since you can adjust the earphone volume on the FW1000T independently from your phone's volume.

If you leave the earphone volume on default (which is quite low), you might not even have enough headroom on your phone volume for certain quiet tracks (mainly classical).


----------



## erockg (Dec 19, 2022)

james444 said:


> Do you mean they don't go loud enough for you? If so, did you max out volume (repeatedly tap left earphone 3 times) on the earphones?
> 
> Just asking, because these are probably my loudest TWS, with a heft almost like full-sized headphones.


Wow.  Not me.  Yup, I have figured out all the controls too.  Three taps.  I have to go up to like 90% to get some good volume on my iPhone.  Maybe all the metal over the years killed my hearing, but most my other buds are plenty loud in comparison.

Edit:  Switched to some Moondrop spring tips and that is helping.  I'm getting a good seal with a deeper insertion.  Hey now.


----------



## erockg

Hozay said:


> Hi, may I ask how would you rate this FW1000T compare to ATH TWX-9? or your other TWS like B&O EX.


Sadly, I don't have the TWX9 anymore, so I can't really say.  But for $150 vs the $399 of the EX, the JVC are a steal.


----------



## erockg

nekonhime said:


> Just go for it. Just do it
> Btw, how do you compare the sound of the 1000t to other top dogs like the Ex, and the Fokus?


Granted the below list changes like I change my underwear every day.  But here's a quick take after going back and forth with my buds this morning.  Mainly listened to the new Ozzy album because I absolutely love how it's mixed.  Might swap the Devialet and JVC, but need more time.  

As of this second, I'd say below is my current favorite order for _sound_ in my TWS collection:

Noble Fokus Pro (still some really great sound separation and punch.  No frills.  No ANC or transparency.  App is robust for EQing)

Nuratrue Pro (sleeper hit for me.  Sound incredible.  The sub bass is just insane.  ANC is okay with a good seal.  Tons of great features.  Got them for the Kickstarter $199 price.  Zero issues with them.)

B&O EX (still a favorite, Sub bass and they keep adding features like auto-pause but awful transparency and ANC)

Devialet Gemini (I still feel these things are magical. wide soundstage, sub bass and great ANC in my world.)

JVC HA-FW1000T (would be sooooo much better if I could EQ them on an iPhone with a native JVC app.  Prefer sound with K2 on.  Great clarity.  Love the transparency mode - Slowly drops the volume down similar to what the XM4 can do.  Surprisingly decent ANC.  Wish they had wireless charging.)

AirPods Pro 2 (convenience, convenience, convenience.)

Campfire Orbit (had a defective unit, getting a replacement.  I can’t compare them to the above yet.  Sound/soundstage is really impressive.  Great separation and punch.  Surprisingly engaging, but $50 overpriced imo.)

I also use the Shure TW2 with some SE846 IEMs which for me, with the bass filter, are stellar.  Can't really compare these to a native TWS.  They are phenomenal.

While I am definitely enjoying the JVC today, I do wish they had a few extras.  Been tip rolling and right now found the Moondrop Spring tips to be excellent.  Sound opens up and they help with a deeper fit in my ears.  Thankfully, I have many tips to choose from in my collection.  Stock tips, although some do swear by the JVC spiral dots, may not work for everyone.  One thing of note for me… I didn’t feel like the sound was processed on the JVC.  That was a nice change.  Very organic and felt true to the source.  If that is your thing, then you should at least try these.  You can always return them.  

Last thing, if you’re cost conscious and don’t want to drop 300+ on the first three on my list, the Devialet and JVC have great discounts right now.  In my worthless opinion, they’re very much worth their under $200 prices right now.


----------



## FYLegend

Has anyone here received new firmware updates for Soundcore A40 and Liberty 3 Pro? I don't see anything yet but I've read complaints the ANC is getting worse. I've seen some claims of brands like Apple and Sony making ANC worse with each firmware update so you buy the next product...


----------



## nekonhime

erockg said:


> Granted the below list changes like I change my underwear every day.  But here's a quick take after going back and forth with my buds this morning.  Mainly listened to the new Ozzy album because I absolutely love how it's mixed.  Might swap the Devialet and JVC, but need more time.
> 
> As of this second, I'd say below is my current favorite order for _sound_ in my TWS collection:
> 
> ...


The kenwood have an app and you will be able to eq lol
Anyway, I have to eq it with the inbuilt app on my phone but an app is a must for this bad boy to shine. I also turn off the k2 since they are useless on the Aptx Adaptive.


----------



## jant71 (Dec 19, 2022)

Firevortex said:


> its priced at $220 USD for the NEXT1. i think they're out of their minds charging this type of money for no stand out functions or sound. i was expecting even larger sound stage with more clarity given it's their "flagship". the Fiio FW5 with its dac and snapdragon sound looks to be a better tech and $70USD cheaper.



I don't get that it is the flagship. There were two prototype models. This is the NEXT1 buy the looks of it...




#47 or X47 is not the flagship. The X77 is the flagship. So, the Next1 one looks like the lower model. The one with LDAC was the 47 so it tracks along with the looks.


----------



## Hozay

erockg said:


> Granted the below list changes like I change my underwear every day.  But here's a quick take after going back and forth with my buds this morning.  Mainly listened to the new Ozzy album because I absolutely love how it's mixed.  Might swap the Devialet and JVC, but need more time.
> 
> As of this second, I'd say below is my current favorite order for _sound_ in my TWS collection:
> 
> ...


How do you use aptx-lossless with Nuratrue Pro? Do you have a PC/cellphone that support aptx-lossless or do you use an adapter?


----------



## erockg

Hozay said:


> How do you use aptx-lossless with Nuratrue Pro? Do you have a PC/cellphone that support aptx-lossless or do you use an adapter?


I did by the adapter from Nura, but haven't received it.  That said, I mainly only use AAC or the Apple Lossless codec from my Apple devices.  Fine for my use here.  I'm very much in the Apple ecosystem.


----------



## Hozay

erockg said:


> I did by the adapter from Nura, but haven't received it.  That said, I mainly only use AAC or the Apple Lossless codec from my Apple devices.  Fine for my use here.  I'm very much in the Apple ecosystem.


The free one when you buy Nuratrue Pro right? Thx for the reply.


----------



## erockg

Hozay said:


> The free one when you buy Nuratrue Pro right? Thx for the reply.


It wasn't free when I bought the buds   But I did only pay $199 for the Nuratrue pro, but yes, same adapter.


----------



## Dekameter (Dec 20, 2022)

This is my first post on this forum, so bear with me! I've been following this particular thread for the past few months to keep up-to-date on the latest TWS. I've switched over to them from wireless headphones for on-the-go use since 2018 since they're just so much convenient to put in a pocket and not have to rely on a backpack when going out anywhere. Plus, for a few years now I've felt they've been almost on-par with wireless headphones for a few years now anyways.

I've been interested in the ATH-TWX9's as a potentially cheap(er) alternative to the Beoplay EX's, since spending any more $300 on something I could lose at any moment is just too much for me. I was hoping some people would go into further depth about how they sound in comparison, especially in tonality, but at this point it was just easier to buy them myself.

Since sound is relative and I'm new here, I'll give a series of mini-thoughts on all the various TWS earbuds I've tried over the years before I can explain the TWX9's in a separate post. For some added context, I'm the type that appreciates a headphone's/IEM's/earbud's stock performance, so I prioritize out-of-the-box tonality over most qualities. I avoid EQ wherever I can. This is particularly the case wireless tech, since even there, you might not have the luxury of EQing without the assistance of an app for certain devices. Also, I tend to prioritize sound quality over features of utility like ANC. A better sounding TWS is more important to me than one with amazing ANC or transparency mode. *A disclaimer*, the only one of these I still own is the *MW08*, so the rest I have to rely purely on _memory_. So, take these thoughts with a grain of salt:

*Jabra Elite 65t*: My first ever true wireless earbuds. In hindsight about as "okay" or average of a wireless earbud as you can get. I'm sure if you bought these now for launch price they'd be highly overpriced. They never wow'd or impressed me, and what I'd describe as mid-forward. It's ability to resolve and its sound signature reminded me of what cheaper sub-$50 headphone sounded like at the time, that is to say no ability to resolve whatsoever. They were decent for watching videos and making calls and that's about it. Eventually I had lost the right earbud, which at the time TWS earbuds used a master-slave system, so I was SOL.

*Jabra Elite 75t*: The successor to the Jabra Elite 65t, and I've never hated anything audio-related faster than I did with this. The bass was so insanely forward it put the Fidelo X2HR to shame, and that headphone's bass annoyed me to no end. I even resorted to using EQ in the dedicated app by pushing the bass as far down as I could, and still it somehow was overpowering and fatiguing. I'm sure bassheads would love this, but not for me. I remember the other sound qualities and technicalities being better than the 65t, if the bass wasn't so distracting. I ended up replacing them within a couple days thinking they were broken, but that wasn't the case, and ended up returning those. Some positives were its battery life at the time, and the case was shockingly small. Probably the smallest I've ever seen in a TWS I've owned.

*Sennheiser Momentum True Wireless (MTW) 1*: Now this was orders of magnitude better in terms of sound quality. I'd describe it as silky smooth and so comfortingly warm without being too much. Every kind of music was relaxing, and it best shined with anything orchestral or acoustic and vocal. Since it's been so long, I can't safely comment on its ability to resolve or how big/small the soundstaging it was. It's a shame, though. The battery life was borderline unusable for me at less than 3 hours, and even then it had the infamous battery drain problem. I could have made done with those for that sound quality, but the fit was the worst part. It felt like shoving Frankenstein plugs in my ears as it overly stretched my outer ear. I couldn't stand to wear them for more than 20-30 minutes at a time. The case was bulky, too, and was the outside was coated in fabric. It didn't take much to feel "gross in the hand" as I'd put it. These ones I likely ended up returning due to the fit being unusable.

*Sony WF-1000XM3*: A much better fit and battery life than the Sennheiser, but I really missed the MTW's sound by comparison. Like all of the Sony's ANC wireless headphones and earbuds I've tried, it's greatest strength was ANC. The bass was punchy and forward, but not exactly clean or articulate either. It sure was "fun", but I don't remember anything particularly notable or standing out about the sound. I remember my thoughts being that it felt more like a utility than something that made music. These I had for a but before I ended up losing them, case and all, on the bus.

*Master & Dynamic MW07 Go*: I was really surprised with these. I didn't know what to expect, but when looking at ones I could buy at Best Buy at the time, I appreciated them being sub-$200 compared to competitors at the time. No ANC, but turned out I didn't need them since they were very effective at passive noise cancelling. My biggest take away was just how utterly, almost perfectly neutral they sounded to me, maybe leaning slightly in warmth. No matter what kind of music it was, it came off as "what the artist intended" to me. The battery life was amazing, too, and the case was decently small enough. The case's material was a bit meh. Much like the Sennheiser, the fabric doesn't take long to feel gross in the hand. Its biggest flaw was probably the wing-tip fit, where after a while it feels like it's digging in your ears. Unfortunately these were also a master-slave system which is one thing that separated them from the more expensive MW07 Plus, and luck would have it that I lost the right earbud, making them unusable.

*Master & Dyanmic MW08*: To be honest, I wasn't expecting there could be a massive upgrade sonically from the MW07 Go's. At first I thought the bass was approaching on annoyingly forward relative to the MW07 Go, but I warmed up to it over time. With ANC, it pushed the bass past that threshold of being too forward for me, but the ANC wasn't really ever that effective anyways. Besides the MTW's, this was the first time I could describe earbuds as having soundstage of some sort. Not something that reaches open-back headphones mind you, but still there. The imaging was also surprisingly good. I find I really appreciate M&D's earbud tonality based on their track record so far. Leaning on warm, pleasant, relaxed, but still with a punch-y and fun enough bass. Definitely more fun than the MW07 Go, though not as extended or as clean as what the MTW did. I would describe them as U-shaped with that in mind, though not super exaggerated. I still have these, and I think they're best when using with acoustic guitar, spoken word (i.e., Youtube, podcasts), movies, and shows/anime. They're still the best I've heard for movies and shows in particular, because they have this sort of magical quality that makes people speech articulate and forward more than any other TWS I've tried so far.

Both the MW07 Go and MW08 use physical buttons to control everything, and IMO this is the way to go. Right button will play/pause (1 tap), skip forward (2 taps), skip back (3 taps), and voice assistant (hold), whereas the left button has a volume rocker, where holding the front / volume + button triggers ambient listening, and back / volume - button triggers ANC. The volume rocker was useless for me, since the # of volume steps were less than the phone's volume steps, enough so that I just used the phone's volume rocker to get a more optimized volume. Unfortunately both the ANC and ambient listening modes weren't strong enough to really ever be usable, though fortunately (or unfortunately depending who you are), the passive noise isolation wasn't good enough to where I could hear most people with the music paused. Another relatively major flaw with these, and the MW07 Go alike, are issues with the bluetooth stability. These seem to be especially susceptible to bluetooth interference, where there'll be areas outside that make the MW08's drop connection either from each other with hitching, or outright disconnect from your phone and reconnect. It was infrequent enough that I learned to live with it, and learned what areas around my town that made them patchy.

The case is also super nice in feel, though at the cost of not being able to wirelessly charge them. I find fit leans on a spectrum ranging from "comfy" to "secure", and these definitely lean toward comfy. They stick out more and always feel like they're on the verge of falling out. I constantly have to re-adjust them, so I wouldn't feel comfortable exercising in them. The best quality of these is both it's battery life and charging speed. The battery could easily last more than 8 hours, and the case charges to full in less than 45 minutes. It's also one of the best shapes I've felt in a case, in terms of pocketability due to its uniform flat width. After a year-in-a-half, the screens protecting the driver and mic fell off, but in fairness I think this must be my fault. Months prior, I attempted at cleaning them with 90% isopropyl alcohol since I was afraid any water near it would be too risky, but this must have eaten away at the glue holding the screens on. Let that be a lessen for anyone wanting to clean their wireless earbuds to _not use alcohol_.

*Master & Dynamic MW07 Go (again)*: With the MW08's screens gone, I didn't feel comfortable with using them extensively, especially exposed to the elements like rain; I had no guarantee how water-resistant they were anymore, or how fragile the driver was. I didn't want to spend hundreds on new earbuds, so I ended up going back to the MW07 Go feeling nostalgic for them, and finding them brand new for $100 on eBay. Needless to say I ended up being rather disappointed by them in comparison, where their ability to resolve wasn't really as good as I had remembered. For the price on a budget and if you don't care for ANC, I would still highly recommend them.

*Sennheiser MTW 3*: After being disappointed with returning to the MW07 Go, I decided to just bite the bullet. I ended up getting these with a student discount for $175, which at that price is a steal. Even their current sale price of $200 is an extremely good value. In some respects it reminded me of the MTW 1, but surprisingly not as magical in technicality like soundstage or imaging. Definitely would describe as overall "warm" without being punch-y. In technicalities, these definitely blow the MW08 out of the water. Not as balanced sounding as Master & Dynamic's lineup, but something that's really good to relax to. At first the fit seemed terrible, where they never wanted to hook on. You have to roll them in and they to "hook" to your ear for a secure fit. Once you get the hang of it, it's one of the most secure fits I've ever felt. Leans more toward secure than comfy, but if you balance it right, the comfiness is good enough to last a few hours. Unfortunately, it's battery life was more mediocre in comparison to the MW08, though at least it could wirelessly charge. Similar fabric feel to the original MTW, that is to say not good. The app was also the first _good_ TWS app I've used, where you had loads of customizability.

In terms of usability, I much prefer physical buttons over touch buttons. There's just so much room for error, and no matter what earbud it is, you'll want to occasionally adjust them to fix the fit. Annoyingly, because the touch surface of the earbuds are so large and sensitive, you'll find that whenever you try to take them out or adjust them, you'll accidentally trigger the tap. This is especially annoying with calls, _because you can't change the call gestures_. If you accidentally tap it while in a call, you'll hang up on the person. Even worse, if you happen to be in a Discord call, you'll "disconnect" but are still connected somehow, which will push the call to the phone speakers. You'll have to manually disconnect and reconnect to the Discord call every time this happens. On the plus side, one of the most surprising things about the MTW3 that I'm surprised people don't talk about more often is just how utterly good the ANC it is. I originally had the XF-1000MX3 and had a chance to listen to a friend's XF-1000MX4, and the MTW 3 is somewhere between the two. To be honest, the XF-1000MX4's ANC was somehow _too strong_ where it was almost nauseating how isolating it was, and I much preferred the way MTW3's ANC worked. Even more so, one thing I've found with ANC TWS earbuds of the past, I would purposely avoid using ANC when I could since I found the sound quality noticably drop when ANC turned on, and the sound signature would also change notably. For instance, both the XF-1000MX3 and MW08 would just get annoyingly bassier, which was annoying considering how I preferred their stock sound signatures. It's like some black magic to me, because the MTW3's sound signature _doesn't change one bit_; I don't even notice a drop in qualities like detail. I didn't even think that was possibly and always assumed ANC was an inherently flawed, and worse experience.

These were easily a keeper once you get a hang of the fit... that is until you run unto the atrocious build quality issues. After a few weeks, one morning you'll question if you're losing hearing in your right ear. The right earbud will be significantly less volume than the left earbud. Then, when you try to use ANC, there will be this constant, annoying feedback chirp. Apparently, it's something to do with the way the ANC interacts with the mesh of the eartip. I RMA'd these, since I definitely wanted them to work. You have to pay to send to them, and they pay back, which is reasonable. They sent replacements, which were working fine for a week. Then these new ones started the exact same issue _again_. There was a firmware update at the time, but it made no difference--if anything, it made it worse. Seeing as this issue likely wasn't going to be fixed any time soon, I ended up returning them to my disappointment.

*Beyerdynamic Free Byrd*: I've owned the original wired Soul Byrd for years now and am disappointed to see the lack of people giving them praise. For what they were worth to me and giving the right synergizing amp/source, they could really make bands like Muse and soundtracks like the Lord of the Rings sing while being able to sleep on my side with them. So I was excited for the Free Byrd, but to be honest I was a little disappointed with these. With the way people have talked about them being one of the best sounding TWS (and being a little bit of a Beyerdynamic fanboy), these fall flat in sound quality in comparison with the MTW3. At first I seemed the like them, but the more and more I used them the more I felt disappointed. I think the MTW3 is better at resolving and having a better stage while sound more balanced, which makes them more versatile to me. By comparison, the Free Byrd having this forward, bloaty bass that's not very nuanced or articulate, though the mids and treble are probably better if not on par. The Free Byrd's use Beyerdynamic's app, which also you to change the EQ based on some pre-defined presets. All of them sounded worse than the stock sound, but then the stock sound was just over the precipice of either being fatiguing in its bass, or you having to turn down the volume a notch to where everything else but the bass sounds too quiet.

Overall it's V-shaped, but is more exaggerated than the Soul Byrd, and not a fitting upgrade for my preferences. In terms of sound quality, the treble is the best I've heard in any TWS, at the cost of the mids being pushed a little too far back. I was really hoping for something more balanced, or hoping I could deal with the bass better. The imaging and soundstage were above average, somewhere in the same ballpark as the MTW3, which combined with the warm tonality, made listening to string-heavy music sound nice to me.

Besides the sound signature, these are actually a contender for top-tier TWS, especially at the current asking price of $225. If you can deal with the bass or if you lean toward basshead (in quantity), then these are an extremely overall good TWS in terms of usability. The fit is more secure than the MW08 but similar feeling, and is arguably more comfortable while being decently tightly sealed. Some people prefer the foam tips, but I'd rather deal with less perfect fit if it means more durability, but luckily these tips were just right in terms of seal and security. The battery life is also amazing, probably on par with the MW08. The case charging speed isn't anything stellar, probably slow, but that's more of a "nice to have" I'll admit. I wish the app allowed you to change the touch gestures just like with the MTW3, though the touch surface was much less sensitive than the MTW3 (almost to a fault), which made miss-taps pretty much non-existent. The ANC and ambient listening were a couple steps above the MW08 but nothing compared to the MTW3, that is to say beyond the point of actually being usable for once, or "not bad". Honestly, I really wanted to just keep them, because besides the bass, these were a great all-rounder TWS. However, I'd be lying if I said I didn't miss the sound of the MTW3. Every time they sound amazing, but then there's some stupid, super critical flaw that makes them borderline broken or unusable. I reluctantly returned them, really wanting to make them work.

At this point, I was about ready to give up on TWS for this generation, and to just convert my Letshuoer S12 Pro's into TWS using the Fiio UTWS5, or just stick with them being wired exclusively. I really didn't want to spend $340+ on Beoplay EX's, especially at arguably the end point of this generation of TWS earbuds, and them seemingly having the same bluetooth problems that the MW08's had. Definitely not for that price. Even $300 for the ATH-TWX9 made my stomach churn, but I took a gamble and risked buying them from Amazon Japan. The risk is that there'll basically be no way to return them practically if something goes wrong or they're really mediocre or something. This post has probably gone on long enough, and I don't feel comfortable enough giving a fair assessment on anything audio-related unless I've had them for a week. They came in on Friday, but needless to say, from my experience so far I think these are a contender for the best overall TWS earbuds on the market. I've never heard the Beoplay EX's or the new Campfire Orbit's, but the overall experience, usability, fit, app, and battery life have been nothing short of TOTL for me so far. I'll have a more thorough post by this Friday.


----------



## Aevum

Funny how the Grell is being liquidated for around 100 bucks right now.

Did they manage to fix it with software updates ?


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## dr. ego

Aevum said:


> Funny how the Grell is being liquidated for around 100 bucks right now.
> 
> Did they manage to fix it with software updates ?



They fixed some/most of the issues. Bluetooth connection is so poor on the two units i had that i wouldn't recommend them to anyone though.


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## Firevortex (Dec 20, 2022)

jant71 said:


> I don't get that it is the flagship. There were two prototype models. This is the NEXT1 buy the looks of it...
> 
> #47 or X47 is not the flagship. The X77 is the flagship. So, the Next1 one looks like the lower model. The one with LDAC was the 47 so it tracks along with the looks.




No idea about prototype. But i was told by the retailer NEXT1 is their flagship model the price confirms this too. LDAC isn't anything special or costly, we've seen cheap LDAC TWE from soundpeads. connection can be a issue with LDAC too. pretty sure they're not using a expensive higher model Qualcomm chipset like the N10 PRO as it doesn't have APT-X. That $220USD price point is hard to stomach. 

Their previous implementation of the HDSS (i suspect a Dolby surround type algorithm) are all on Qualcomm chips thus they didn't implement it on the NEXT1 due to chipset incompatibility i think.

anyway i was hoping to upgrade my N10PRO for movies during summer here. guess i'll look for something else.


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## james444

Firevortex said:


> Their previous implementation of the HDSS (i suspect a Dolby surround type algorithm) are all on Qualcomm chips thus they didn't implement it on the NEXT1 due to chipset incompatibility i think.



AFAIK Nuarl's HDSS was a hardware implementation:  https://nuarl.com/en/hdss/


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## Luke Skywalker

dweaver said:


> Wait are you saying I get LHDC from the Fiio app?
> 
> Wow if that so I will test on my UTWS5 and see what happens!
> 
> ...


I still have my Monarch Mk2 hooked up to my UTWS5. I haven’t used the UTWS3 in ages


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## Firevortex

james444 said:


> AFAIK Nuarl's HDSS was a hardware implementation:  https://nuarl.com/en/hdss/


ah my assumptions were wrong. with out the 3d sound stage which is the main selling point of their products i see no reason to get the NEXT1.


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## Hozay

Dekameter said:


> This is my first post on this forum, so bear with me! I've been following this particular thread for the past few months to keep up-to-date on the latest TWS. I've switched over to them from wireless headphones for on-the-go use since 2018 since they're just so much convenient to put in a pocket and not have to rely on a backpack when going out anywhere. Plus, for a few years now I've felt they've been almost on-par with wireless headphones for a few years now anyways.
> 
> I've been interested in the ATH-TWX9's as a potentially cheap(er) alternative to the Beoplay EX's, since spending any more $300 on something I could lose at any moment is just too much for me. I was hoping some people would go into further depth about how they sound in comparison, especially in tonality, but at this point it was just easier to buy them myself.
> 
> ...


Great post, and found so many things in common. I value sound quality over other features as well, and avoid EQ where I can. If you havent try the TWX9 yet, I would say compare to free byrd the TWX9 is brighter, clearer. But idk if this is will be a problem when listening to it for hours. But its just my feelings, I'm not a pro so its highly subjective. The battery life is significant less than free byrd tho, like half of it. But the app and all the functions are much better. It indicates which codec is in use. Has own volume adjust, custom EQ, multi connect and etc. I wouldnt bother to open the free byrd app when I'm using it but for TWX9, app is fun to use.


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## Vonbuddy (Dec 20, 2022)

Anyone heard the Noble Fokus ANC1?  I have heard it is not quite as good as now out of stock Fokus Pro.  But better than Falcon Pro.  I am also considering the Fiio FW5 even though it is not really a noise free pair.  Would love to hear about those from anyone.


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## SynaestheticA

Vonbuddy said:


> Anyone heard the Noble Fokus ANC1?  I have heard it is not quite as good as now out of stock Fokus Pro.  But better than Falcon Pro.  I am also considering the Fiio FW5 even though it is not really a noise free pair.  Would love to hear about those from anyone.



There is a link to a review of the FW5 a few pages back, very positive. If you can wait 9 days I have mine on the way and can let you know my thoughts.


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## helmutcheese

SynaestheticA said:


> There is a link to a review of the FW5 a few pages back, very positive. If you can wait 9 days I have mine on the way and can let you know my thoughts.


So far there is nothing special that blows me away, the BT range is a joke and I feel the battery life will not meet the claims but still time will tell and more so since they seem to encourage you set it to Max Charge of 85% in the App to prolong its life.

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/fii...ates-to-chapter4.962807/page-10#post-17306129


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## ekjellgren

Just ordered the Nuratrue Pro with the adapter included in the price.


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## dweaver

helmutcheese said:


> So far there is nothing special that blows me away, the BT range is a joke and I feel the battery life will not meet the claims but still time will tell and more so since they seem to encourage you set it to Max Charge of 85% in the App to prolong its life.
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/fii...ates-to-chapter4.962807/page-10#post-17306129


Did you buy the FW5 or just going by what your reading on them? Fine either way just curious.

My UTWS5 has that same 85% setting in the app. It is a weird setting for sure. My biggest gripe about the UTWS5 is that the units start to grab the BT signal while in the case when they hit that 85% threshold. It's the worst aspect of the adapters, hopefully the FW5 has resolved that issue.

sound wise the UTWS5/FH5 combo is quite a bit ahead of any TWS I own for sound quality. My best TWS is maybe 75% of the quality. So if the FW5 has achieved that sound quality level or better then I will be pretty happy even if it's missing features like ANC and for the moment Ambient mode.

It certainly won't replace my Galaxy Buds 2 Pro for  all round use. But it might become my deep listening TWS.

Having said all that I am seriously thinking of getting a Sony phone so I can get the best BT standards, 3.5mm Jack, and SD expansion. If I go that route I might end up going back to wired for pure music quality. But that's a $1100 away savings I need to do since no phone companies seem to offer Sony phones through their plans anymore, which means I am buying it outright. But it will be 6 months out before I have saved up the money for it.

Thinking I will go all in on the Xperia 1 iv since it's only $100 more the Xperia 5 iv through Swiftronics in Canada and that $100 difference in coat gives me 512GB of storage in the phone. Not a big fan of the shape of their phones but if all the rest works well I can live with the length.


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## dmphile

Have you guys seen this from Plussound?

https://www.plussoundaudio.com/customcables/tws-a.html


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## erockg

dmphile said:


> Have you guys seen this from Plussound?
> 
> https://www.plussoundaudio.com/customcables/tws-a.html


Yeah, saw it on their Instagram last night.  Looks pretty cool.  Might be worth checking out.  I've used their bluetooth cables before and they're very nice.  Had bought one for a pair of Etymotic buds a few years back before Ety came out with their OEM version.


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## helmutcheese (Dec 20, 2022)

@ dweaver, I own them as of today.

IMO the best sounding TWS I have owned is the Sennheiser MOMENTUM True Wireless 3 (too many issues at launch and too small for me so moved about), my FiiO Neckband+FH5 is also very good but more natural so not so good for lower quality files, I kept my FH7's wired for Hi-Res playback.


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## Vonbuddy

Bought the AKG N400 for 117 USD at Amazon.  Silver.


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## Vonbuddy

I just bought the AKG N400 at Amazon.  Silver and one of the last available.


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## Luke Skywalker (Dec 20, 2022)

dweaver said:


> Did you buy the FW5 or just going by what your reading on them? Fine either way just curious.
> 
> My UTWS5 has that same 85% setting in the app. It is a weird setting for sure. My biggest gripe about the UTWS5 is that the units start to grab the BT signal while in the case when they hit that 85% threshold. It's the worst aspect of the adapters, hopefully the FW5 has resolved that issue.
> 
> ...


That’s quite a dilemma. I’m limited to AAC on my iPad and iPhone but I did recently get an A&K SP3000 DAP that had LDAC. ironically I don’t have any LDAC listening gear except for HiBy buds and I haven’t tried the combo. I have Focal Bathys headphones but they don’t have LDAC. It was probably stupid to get those instead of the ML 5909

I wonder if there are any LDAC TWS adapters? I’d love to find ones and a case with large “wells” to accommodate my JH Lola’s that are in a drawer collecting dust


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## helmutcheese (Dec 20, 2022)

Yes the Fiio Neckband is LDAC and the newer BT 5.2 and 5.3 options on Aliexpress with all the various connector types for your earbuds.


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## SynaestheticA

helmutcheese said:


> I own them as of today.


General sentiment seems to be that the sound opens up and smoothens out after a bit of playtime. Keep at it chief! Put those hours in!


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## helmutcheese (Dec 20, 2022)

It is not the sound that is the issue even though someone repeatably telling me to do that,


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## Luke Skywalker

helmutcheese said:


> Yes the Fiio Neckband is LDAC and the newer BT 5.2 and 5.3 options on Aliexpress with all the various connector types for your earbuds.


Sweet thanks! I’m definitely going to order mine. Luckily @erockg helped me to get the adapters for my Lolas which will work perfectly for this


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## dmphile

erockg said:


> Yeah, saw it on their Instagram last night.  Looks pretty cool.  Might be worth checking out.  I've used their bluetooth cables before and they're very nice.  Had bought one for a pair of Etymotic buds a few years back before Ety came out with their OEM version.


I'm curious on how they will perform. It's odd that they don't come with charging cases.


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## erockg

dmphile said:


> I'm curious on how they will perform. It's odd that they don't come with charging cases.


Yah, they don't really explain it on the site.  Pretty sure they charge via usb on the adapters themselves.  Not sure if they supply a split usb charging cable like the BT20s or the old FiiOs, but maybe.


----------



## helmutcheese

Luke Skywalker said:


> Sweet thanks! I’m definitely going to order mine. Luckily @erockg helped me to get the adapters for my Lolas which will work perfectly for this



If I was buying any it would be this.

5141 is BT 5.1 LDAC

5171 is BT 5.3 aptX Adaptive.

100-120hr battery

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005005069758572.html


----------



## HAMS

Just got soundpeats free2 classic, and I'm surprised by the excellent tuning, besides the boosted bass the sounds reminds me of salnotes zero.


----------



## Luke Skywalker

helmutcheese said:


> If I was buying any it would be this.
> 
> 5141 is BT 5.1 LDAC
> 
> ...


Looks great! I know there are some reasons why ANC is difficult to implement in TWS IEM adapters but I sure wish someone would figure out a way to make it happen


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## helmutcheese (Dec 21, 2022)

With 2 pins or even if they had 3 or 4 pins it would not be enough for Hybrid ANC for the Mics to do their job.


----------



## helmutcheese

I have had 2 pairs of TOZO, could not recommend going by them so...


----------



## jant71

helmutcheese said:


> With 2 pins or even if they had 3 or 4 pins it would not be enough for Hybrid ANC for the Mics to do their job.


What mics?? Normal Iems don't have mics in them. Only ever in the cable.  Only mic will be in the adapter body.


----------



## Vonbuddy

Final Audio - ZE3000 True Wireless Earphones -​Anyone have a view on these?  How do they compare to Noble Fokus Pro or others?


----------



## helmutcheese (Dec 21, 2022)

jant71 said:


> What mics?? Normal Iems don't have mics in them. Only ever in the cable.  Only mic will be in the adapter body.


Do you understand how the newer Hybrid ANC works unlike my older wired Bose QC 20's where the ANC/Battery were in a brick halfway down the cable.

Hint *"feedforward and feedback *_*microphones", *_

it is not going to work unless at least one mic is inside your ear.


----------



## Luke Skywalker

Perhaps at some point high-end IEMs with built-in microphones to facilitate things like ANC and voice calls…


----------



## erockg

Here we goooooo!


----------



## Hozay

erockg said:


> Here we goooooo!


updating the fav list soon?


----------



## LordToneeus

erockg said:


> Here we goooooo!


Waiting with baited breat!


----------



## erockg

LordToneeus said:


> Waiting with baited breat!


Still messing with them, but here are a few thoughts:

Nice unboxing experience. 

Not a fan of the shell.  Yamaha, Cleer, Beyerdynamic all use a similar one.  Making it work.  

Trying to find tips with a good seal.  Settled on Azla tips for now.

FiiO's app is just awful.  Same app that uses the UTWS3/5.  They need to overhaul it IMO.  

No ANC, no Transparency.  I'd like to think FiiO will add the latter like they did on the UTWS5.  

Case is not as cheap as I thought it would be.  Lightweight.  No wireless charging as we all knew.  Bummer, but fine.  

They get LOUD.

Volume control scheme is like the UTWS adapters.  Wish it was uniform whereas I can just control with phone and/or buds.  Don't like having two options.  I have to turn it up in the app then use my iPhone right now.  I know some like this, I do not.

Clarity and instrument separation is excellent.  Very noticeable.  Wide soundstage.  Balanced sound.  Vocals are up front, not too much.  As always, wish I could bump the sub-bass for my metal, but it's there, just could use bit more for my taste.  Not awful.  Listening to Soundgarden's Louder than Love and I'm really digging the sound.  Cornell is ringing in my brain.  Love it.

No BT dropouts for me and I've walked at least 100 ft away into other rooms at home.

Haven't tried them on calls yet.  Voice is loud and clear when taking a voice memo, but you can still hear background noice.  So I'd say call will be good enough at home, mileage may vary outside.

For $150 or less, these are very much worth it.

Going to have to shuffle out some of my others.  These are great.


----------



## helmutcheese (Dec 22, 2022)

That is a big house if 100 feet (unless 100 feet squared), the 10m BT Class 2 Cert is line of sight so 33 feet but yes can get further even indoors but 100 feet indoors would need be a house made of paper.

I cannot get 20 feet away and my house is not made of lead but does have thick walls, but the doors are open, the FiiO Neckband is as bad.

I can walk to the back garden with my cheap SoundPeats Sonic PRO/H1 connected to any devices in my home even the Nvidia Shield 2017 (BT 4.1/2).

I wore them last night to sleep and found very little passive NC (on a main road) so adding ANC would not work for me, these are big and not that comfy just like the Free Bryd to my adult male sized ears and larger canals (I have to push then in further than someone with smaller ears would).


----------



## felix3650

dweaver said:


> Did you buy the FW5 or just going by what your reading on them? Fine either way just curious.
> 
> My UTWS5 has that same 85% setting in the app. It is a weird setting for sure. My biggest gripe about the UTWS5 is that the units start to grab the BT signal while in the case when they hit that 85% threshold. It's the worst aspect of the adapters, hopefully the FW5 has resolved that issue.
> 
> ...


Have a look here:
https://m.gsmarena.com/sony_xperia_1_iv-price-11521.php
The 256GB version with a nice 512GB microsd (around 50-60$ on Amazon) is wha I'd go with.


dmphile said:


> Have you guys seen this from Plussound?
> 
> https://www.plussoundaudio.com/customcables/tws-a.html


A bit overpriced IMHO. It seems like they use an older BT chip if they offer BT 5.0 and no LDAC or Aptx Adaptive support.
And that usb dac function doesn't sound practical. Even the most supple usb cable will move the adapter around.


----------



## Tenlow (Dec 22, 2022)

Fidelio T1.

Very bulky. Very big. Very huge case. But also very cheap these days. Brand new and sealed for 60€. Might be worth it for that cheap. Let’s see 

Great build quality on that gigantic case, though. Nice leather touch. Same for the buds. They come with 9 pairs of tips (6 silicone/ 3 comply).

Battery life should be great. Spec sheet reads pretty nicely. Wireless charging and USB-C on deck of course. Single bud mode, Hi-Res Audio, adaptive ANC, transparency mode, multipoint bluetooth.

But my god they’re huge  Still excited tongive them a try for that price.


----------



## dweaver (Dec 22, 2022)

felix3650 said:


> Have a look here:
> https://m.gsmarena.com/sony_xperia_1_iv-price-11521.php
> The 256GB version with a nice 512GB microsd (around 50-60$ on Amazon) is wha I'd go with.


That was what I was thinking as well. But reading the few posts I can find there is lots of talk about heating and battery issues on the Xperia 1 iv. I can say the photo features are a distant 2nd for me so am wondering if the Xperia 5 iv or possibly saving more than half the cost and getting the Xperia 10 iv might be a better option for me.

I don't play much games on my phone and the few I do are tower defense or some card games. So don't need lots of horse power. I also do not use my phone for Netflix just YouTube. I do take lots of photos but they are mostly of headphones or the occasional landscape photo so the camera in any of these will likely be good enough.

In reading the 10 iv supports LDAC, APTx HD and adaptive so should be good enough for BT codecs I am thinking and I also would have the headphone jack I can use.

The 5 iv seems to have basically the same thing but is BT 5.2 vs 5.1 on the 10 iv model. Not sure which has a better built in DAC for music through the headphone jack, both claim 24bit / 192kHz so am thinking they will be similar. But reading suggests maybe tuned differently.

I can get to 10 iv open box for $419 as compared to $1049 for the 5 iv or $1149 for the 1 iv. So a drastic price difference!

Also reviews suggest the 10 iv has one of the best battery life avaialble today which would also be great.

Anyway I will try to minimize side tracking this thread but am curious on anyone who has experience with the Sony phones, thoughts.

Final comment, at $419 I could get a new phone that is a bit of a side grade (more music options) / downgrade (lower screen res, 6GB RAM vs 8GB) from my S20. This almost seems an option over buying yet another TWS at the moment. It might be a good setup to maximizing some of the future TWS purchases down the road. Plus allow me to use some of my wired headphones more often.

Edit: just checked my S20, I am actually using it at 60hz refresh and middle resolution to gain battery life. So the screen resolution on the Xperia 10 iv would be pretty comparable to what I am used to...


----------



## Canabuc

Well bought the GBP2 and am a bit disappointed. Sound is good but not better than my year old Technics. Vocals are a bit thin 
ANC is no better either. 
And truthfully find them less comfortable than the AZ60.

They are going back.
The oppo Enco x2 intrigue me but would have to order from AliExpress so if I buy can't return.

Would love to hear from everyone who has tried the Oppo about Sq for co.fort ANC and can you adjust Eq or just a few presets like the Samsung..


----------



## dweaver

I find the GB2P more comfy than the AZ60 but fit is always a crap shoot. So is sound for that matter, if you don't like their sound or find it's not any better than the AZ60 then yup, send them back. No sense paying for something you don't like.


----------



## Canabuc

dweaver said:


> I find the GB2P more comfy than the AZ60 but fit is always a crap shoot. So is sound for that matter, if you don't like their sound or find it's not any better than the AZ60 then yup, send them back. No sense paying for something you don't like.


They sound good but miss ing something in the vocals and mids.


----------



## dweaver

The vocals lack some resolution and edge so vocals lose some of the emotion. Not as bad as Sony but definitely missing it a bit. Also have less chance of sibilance though, but of a double edged sword...


----------



## Canabuc

Any experience with Enco x2 or. Huawei freebuds pro 2? Both dual driver with planar and dynamic drivers.
These are the last buds I will consider before waiting for next gen models with LE LC3


----------



## DigDub

Canabuc said:


> Any experience with Enco x2 or. Huawei freebuds pro 2? Both dual driver with planar and dynamic drivers.
> These are the last buds I will consider before waiting for next gen models with LE LC3


I have both. They sound pretty similar. I do prefer the enco x2 as it has deeper sub bass and a wider soundstage. Sound quality is top out of the tws I have. Passive isolation is not great as it has vents at the nozzle area which gives it the airy soundstage. Mic quality is great. Battery life on the enco is also better than the Huawei. Enco uses force touch to "click" for controls, Huawei uses touch which results in accidental touches. The biggest sized sleeve on the enco x2 is pretty small, so if you have large ear canal, it may not seal well and third party sleeves cannot be used as the sleeve comes with a notch to accommodate the  hole in the nozzle.


----------



## Canabuc (Dec 22, 2022)

DigDub said:


> I have both. They sound pretty similar. I do prefer the enco x2 as it has deeper sub bass and a wider soundstage. Sound quality is top out of the tws I have. Passive isolation is not great as it has vents at the nozzle area which gives it the airy soundstage. Mic quality is great. Battery life on the enco is also better than the Huawei. Enco uses force touch to "click" for controls, Huawei uses touch which results in accidental touches. The biggest sized sleeve on the enco x2 is pretty small, so if you have large ear canal, it may not seal well and third party sleeves cannot be used as the sleeve comes with a notch to accommodate the  hole in the nozzle.


Thanks. Like what you say about the oppo.
I use largest tips from the Samsung's. Would oppo be ok?
Also would you go black or is the white better color choice for showing marks.


----------



## DigDub

Canabuc said:


> Thanks. Like what you say about the oppo.
> I use largest tips from the Samsung's. Would oppo be ok?
> Also would you go black or is the white better color choice for showing marks.


Im using Samsung's largest sleeve as well, so the enco x2 large sleeves should fit you too. I prefer the white, marks doesn't really show up. And of course people will mistake it as an airpod pro.


----------



## C_Lindbergh

Soon CES 2023 my friends! We should see several announcements pre-show in just 2 weeks!


----------



## Canabuc

DigDub said:


> Im using Samsung's largest sleeve as well, so the enco x2 large sleeves should fit you too. I prefer the white, marks doesn't really show up. And of course people will mistake it as an airpod pro.


I can get freebuds pro 2 from amazon. Free returns if I don't like and they can be eq'd in app.
If similar sound maybe better option even if about 40$ more.


----------



## Hozay

C_Lindbergh said:


> Soon CES 2023 my friends! We should see several announcements pre-show in just 2 weeks!


anything related to TWS would be expected?


----------



## C_Lindbergh

Hozay said:


> anything related to TWS would be expected?



Yes, I have high hopes that Technics will annonce their new TWS, last year I beilive they launched their over-ear ANC headphones at CES.


----------



## Hozay

C_Lindbergh said:


> Yes, I have high hopes that Technics will annonce their new TWS, last year I beilive they launched their over-ear ANC headphones at CES.


great to hear, heard az60 was good but lots of flagship TWS have been released since then, az60 is not as competitive as before.


----------



## C_Lindbergh

Hozay said:


> great to hear, heard az60 was good but lots of flagship TWS have been released since then, az60 is not as competitive as before.



Yeah, I hope for an improvement all around, ANC, SQ, Call Quality a long with new features like Wireless charging and LE-Audio! 

In my opinion the AZ60 had the best app of all TWS that I tried, so many different options including fully customisable controls.


----------



## Blueshound24

C_Lindbergh said:


> Soon CES 2023 my friends! We should see several announcements pre-show in just 2 weeks!



I'm holding out for Noble, I've heard rumblings there will be a newer version of the Fokus Pro with similar tuning, but better calling and ambient mode. Maybe they will announce it at CES?


----------



## erockg

Blueshound24 said:


> I'm holding out for Noble, I've heard rumblings there will be a newer version of the Fokus Pro with similar tuning, but better calling and ambient mode. Maybe they will announce it at CES?


That would be excellent.


----------



## C_Lindbergh

The new Noble might be perfect for around the house or when you dont need anc/special features, weras the new Technics could be the perfect all-rounders


----------



## Vonbuddy

Blueshound24 said:


> I'm holding out for Noble, I've heard rumblings there will be a newer version of the Fokus Pro with similar tuning, but better calling and ambient mode. Maybe they will announce it at CES?


They are already selling it on Noble Audio's website for about 199.00.  I have been told it is not as good in sound as Fokus Pro but for everything else it is better.  It is called Fokus ANC 1 I believe.


----------



## Blueshound24

Vonbuddy said:


> They are already selling it on Noble Audio's website for about 199.00.  I have been told it is not as good in sound as Fokus Pro but for everything else it is better.  It is called Fokus ANC 1 I believe.



Yeah, I've been pulling up Noble's website just about every day hoping the Fokus Pro V2 will be announced and available. From comments I've heard, I think I'll pass on the H-ANC and ANC models.


----------



## Aevum

i regret not buying the AZ-60 over the sony,,

BTW does the AZ60 lose multipoint when using LDAC ?


----------



## Vonbuddy

Blueshound24 said:


> Yeah, I've been pulling up Noble's website just about every day hoping the Fokus Pro V2 will be announced and available. From comments I've heard, I think I'll pass on the H-ANC and ANC models.


Where did you hear about this version 2?  I was not aware of that.  Then it is likely to sound better and cost more.


----------



## Luke Skywalker

C_Lindbergh said:


> The new Noble might be perfect for around the house or when you dont need anc/special features, weras the new Technics could be the perfect all-rounders


I would love this, too. I liked the FoKus so much that I bought the Kublai Khan


----------



## Hozay

Blueshound24 said:


> I'm holding out for Noble, I've heard rumblings there will be a newer version of the Fokus Pro with similar tuning, but better calling and ambient mode. Maybe they will announce it at CES?


What I heard from retailer is that fokus pro will be discontinued and new TWS will be released possibly mid 2023


----------



## Canabuc

Hozay said:


> great to hear, heard az60 was good but lots of flagship TWS have been released since then, az60 is not as competitive as before.


Outside of better AnC and Qi charging, I haven't found any of the newer bids out there are significantly better than the AZ60.
Now if they do improve on it I will buy as it has been my favorite tws to date.


----------



## Canabuc

Aevum said:


> i regret not buying the AZ-60 over the sony,,
> 
> BTW does the AZ60 lose multipoint when using LDAC ?


Keeps LDAC


----------



## helmutcheese (Dec 24, 2022)

Going to try these on some of my TWS (esp. the ones with poor passive NC in *my* ears) like the Free Byrd and Mini Pro HS.

*NEW: *

Double-layered core:

Reduce the pressure from outside
Enhance the noise isolation function.




https://spinfit-eartip.com/product/w1/?lang=en

Not sure What they are playing at with some of their ear tips only available in Muti-sizes pack of S/M/L as I will have no need for S or M only the L's even then ideally need 14mm which are sometimes L and sometimes XL for this brand.

They do not seem very consistent in their sizing or naming in their range, some are S or M or L others have an additional XL option and some L and even XL are 13.5-14mm.

Cost £20, and I throw/give away two pair, keep the L if it even fits, and I need say 3 sets so £60 (the price of a decent mid-range TWS on a deal).


----------



## C_Lindbergh

helmutcheese said:


> Going to try these on some of my TWS (esp. the ones with poor passive NC in *my* ears) like the Free Byrd and Mini Pro HS.
> 
> *NEW: *
> 
> ...


The stem is quite long tho, would make a bad fit for true wireless I'm afraid.


----------



## dilpal

Any tws under $100 which focus on vocals?


----------



## helmutcheese (Dec 24, 2022)

C_Lindbergh said:


> The stem is quite long tho, would make a bad fit for true wireless I'm afraid.


I have larger canals and some of the TWS I have I use the normal length tips not the shorter TWS variants if they sit ok and fit the charge case.

Yea if they are too long or do not match the buds it feels like the buds are hanging out your ears and move up and down on the soft stem (I call it the Rubber Effect).

It was not that long ago Azla SednaEarfit had no TWS variants in their range and I still used on many earbuds like my Soundpeats H1 Prem's, if I use the newer short TWS variant is slips out esp. after I sweat a bit and the bonus is it still fits the charge case.


----------



## Blueshound24 (Dec 24, 2022)

Those in the know have said the new Fokus Pro will have the same drivers, and will have clear calling and ambient mode.

And on the Noble Audio - The Wizard Returns thread, Full Circle just posted this:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/noble-audio-the-wizard-returns.684787/page-2295#post-17313037




> 3d printed housing
> 
> Each face plate hand made = no two are alike
> 
> ...


----------



## helmutcheese (Dec 24, 2022)

*Coming in January *< If this and the photo are legit and not just guestimates.






NEW FROM NOBLE AUDIO​About a year has passed since the release of Noble's FoKus PRO, the leader in the high-end TWS earphone market. This winter, Noble will release the FoKus Mystique, the orthodox evolution model of FoKus PRO.

Noble promises more on this "frontier of high-end, sound quality specialized wireless earphone created by high-end wired earphone professionals."

Mr. "Wizard" John Moulton has performed new tuning, and not only has it evolved further in terms of sound quality, but the microphone has also been upgraded, greatly improving call quality. Hear-through (ambient mode) has also been added to bolster its usability and practicality.

The unit is a hybrid configuration that combines (x2) Knowles BA drivers and a 8.2mm dynamic driver. The microphone position has been changed from the inside of the shell to the faceplate side (deep "Galaxy" design), further improving call quality. A dedicated app will be available for personalized tuning.

*Note:* the Noble FoKus Mystique is a premium headphone. It will handle the occasional workout, but it is not recommended that the Mystique be submerged in water or worn in the shower or in rain.

SPECIFICATIONS​
Hybrid (x2) Knowles Balance Armature and (x1) 8.2mm Dynamic Drivers
Bluetooth supports SBC, AAC, aptX, aptX Adaptive
Dedicated app for personalized tuning and EQ
More Coming Soon


https://bloomaudio.com/products/noble-audio-fokus-mystique-tws


----------



## C_Lindbergh

Wow, those Nobles looks incredible!

Really hope there's a setting for music to be paused when enabling ambient, and that the controls are fully customisable in the app

Sad they wont support LE-audio tho!


----------



## C_Lindbergh

helmutcheese said:


> I have larger canals and some of the TWS I have I use the normal length tips not the shorter TWS variants if they sit ok and fit the charge case.
> 
> Yea if they are too long or do not match the buds it feels like the buds are hanging out your ears and move up and down on the soft stem (I call it the Rubber Effect).
> 
> It was not that long ago Azla SednaEarfit had no TWS variants in their range and I still used on many earbuds like my Soundpeats H1 Prem's, if I use the newer short TWS variant is slips out esp. after I sweat a bit and the bonus is it still fits the charge case.


Even so, many cases don't accommodate eartips with longer stems! :/


----------



## erockg

erockg said:


> Still messing with them, but here are a few thoughts:
> 
> Nice unboxing experience.
> 
> ...


After having a few days with these, while they're great, I do need more bass and prefer the tuning of the Noble Fokus Pro to the FW5 by far.  Also, FIT.  I can't for the life of me get a good fit with the FW5.  It's the same issue I had with the Yamaha, Beyerdynamic and other buds that use this shell.  Last night, my wife said, omg, your headphones are so loud!  Not matter what tips I changed to, they have major sound leakage for me.  Looks like these will be going back soon.  Bummer.


----------



## helmutcheese

C_Lindbergh said:


> Even so, many cases don't accommodate eartips with longer stems! :/


That is why I added that in my first statement above.


----------



## NickleCo

Does anyone have a rec for eartips to use with the buds2Pro? The stock tips just don't fit me (even on the largest). Also looking at tips for a sound quality enhancement.


----------



## dweaver

@NickleCo I was able to fit the Spinfit CP360 on my GB2P. Original Sony hybrids sort of fit but can pop off so not as recommended.


----------



## helmutcheese (Dec 24, 2022)

> Does anyone have a rec for eartips to use with the buds2Pro? The stock tips just don't fit me (even on the largest). Also looking at tips for a sound quality enhancement.



Spinfit's Range or Azla SednaEarfit's range (L or XL, whatever is near 14mm) as like me you seem to have large canals, did you even read the previous page?


----------



## NickleCo

dweaver said:


> @NickleCo I was able to fit the Spinfit CP360 on my GB2P. Original Sony hybrids sort of fit but can pop off so not as recommended.


Thanks for the rec! I did try hybrids too (was and are my go-to on my xm3 and xm4) but alas it would always get stuck inside my ear.


----------



## NickleCo

helmutcheese said:


> Spinfit's Range or Azla SednaEarfit's range (L or XL, whatever is near 14mm) as like me you seem to have large canals, did you even read the previous page?


I read up to page 2900 before making the post. Sorry for the redundant post ig. 3000+ pages isnt really an easy read. Started around page 1 all the way to 2900.


----------



## helmutcheese (Dec 24, 2022)

I did not ask for sarcasm, I touched on this topic on the previous page to this page < *Singular not plural so not 3304 pages.*


----------



## NickleCo

helmutcheese said:


> I did not ask for sarcasm, I touched on this topic on the previous page to this page < *Singular not plural so not 3304 pages.*


Wait wait, i think we got off the wrong foot here. One reason why i posted without browsing was because im annoyed at how bad the b2p sounded. It astonishes me that they charge $300 for something so mediocre sounding, fitting and handling. I really didn't have any intentions of making sarcasm and im sorry if it sounded that way. Take it as me getting annoyed that samsung 1) doesn't let me test the buds out prior to buying and 2) them charging that much for something that sounds like $20 in ears.


----------



## helmutcheese (Dec 25, 2022)

👍

99% of any earphones/neckbands/TWS I have owned I never use their tips as they are too small, some do include L or XL that are about 14mm, only issue then is them fitting the charge case or not.


----------



## nekonhime

The kenwood ws a1 is only 50 at sidedeal
https://sidedeal.com/deals/kenwood-ws-a1-active-noise-canceling-true-wireless-earbuds-with-alexa-2
Sound very good, NC is as good as xm3, no problem with calls, dope case. Only downside is size of the earbuds and the case. I just purchase 2 more because I love this bad boy so much


----------



## C_Lindbergh

I guess I'll be buying the new Technics for general use outside when I need ANC, and the new Nobles around the house or whenever there's so need for ANC so that I can focus fully on sound. 

January will be expensive


----------



## shooter

Good to know if it is worth buying Mystique having Fokus Pro


----------



## C_Lindbergh

shooter said:


> Good to know if it is worth buying Mystique having Fokus Pro


Seems like the only major improvments are call quality and an ambient mode, if you care about those things then it looks like a good upgrade.


----------



## shooter

C_Lindbergh said:


> * too*Seems like the only major improvments are call quality and an ambient mode, if you care about those things then it looks like a good upgrade.


Mr Wizard confirmed there will be slightly different tunning. Certainly would be good to have better call quality but in general NFP rocks.


----------



## voicemaster

Fiio UTWS5 gang




7Hz Timeless, Raptgo Hook-X, UM Mest MKII and Moondrop Variation.


----------



## FYLegend

What boxing day? Pretty disappointing deals compared to Black Friday...

Anyways, SoundPeats has announced the new Opera series on Kickstarter:
https://www.kickstarter.com/project...m7JkyoTNBK9vNGHbbzGo1-qqCTidbFLn6QbbFq86r2aGg




Opera03 has 1 dynamic + 1 balanced armature, Opera05 has 1 dynamic + 2 BA drivers.


----------



## northsider

Good afternoon.I have had Noble Falcon 2 /NFP and now Noble ANC H ..NFP superb sound quality, but found fit unsuitable despite various tips.H ANC good fit , sound quality for podcast/audiobook is top rate.Bloom audio on there website said Noble Mystique is more evolution..There TWS are very good..And at various price points.Cheers


----------



## helmutcheese (Dec 26, 2022)

FYLegend said:


> What boxing day? Pretty disappointing deals compared to Black Friday...
> 
> Anyways, SoundPeats has announced the new Opera series on Kickstarter:
> https://www.kickstarter.com/project...m7JkyoTNBK9vNGHbbzGo1-qqCTidbFLn6QbbFq86r2aGg
> ...


I would not fund these chancers again after the past 2 (I only funded the 2nd), first one I do not think the buds ever got sold outside the US as they were full of issues (not 100% on this TBH).

The H1+H1 Prem were as per normal late and full of issues with either one side ending up with lower volume or dying and the replacements having a bad battery in one side and overheating on charge and not holding charge (you can see comments on Amazon UK/US on these issues so still the same).

*Opera Tech Specs:*
Wireless Connectivity: Bluetooth 5.3
Sound Codecs: SBC, LDAC Certification: Hi-Res Wireless Frequency Range: 20Hz~40kHz
Advanced Sound Features: Active Noise Cancellation, Transparence mode
Driver Sensitivity: 30dB @1kHz
Driver Type: 12mm dynamic driver w/ Dual *Balanced Armature Drivers* (Opera03 with Single BAD, Opera05 with Dual BAD)
Battery Life:
SBC: Up to 33 hours(ANC OFF) , Up to 30 hours (ANC ON)
LDAC: Up to 19 hours (ANC OFF), Up to 17 hours (ANC ON)
Eartips: 3* pairs silicone ear tips {S, M , L}
Earbuds Dimensions：24.30 x 222.46 x 229.03mm
Case Dimensions：69.17 x 30.94 x 44.89mm
Weight: Earbuds(14.6g) Case (117.6g)
Inputs: Type-C cable
Charging Time: 1.5 hours
IPX Rating: IPX4
Customizable Sound EQ: SOUNDPEATS APP
Touch Control: Options include play/ pause, skip track, change volume, and more 






Some more info here inc two models and photos./  https://us.soundpeats.com/blogs/events/opera-kickstarter-pre-launch


----------



## Canabuc

One plus buds pro 2 will have dual drivers better ANC and 10-40000.
Could be interesting as they apparently sounded pretty could with 1dd.


----------



## Luke Skywalker

voicemaster said:


> Fiio UTWS5 gang
> 
> 7Hz Timeless, Raptgo Hook-X, UM Mest MKII and Moondrop Variation.


Wow which sounds best? I have my Monarch Mk2s connected to my UTWS5 but my UTWS3 are sitting in a drawer 

Did you guys hear about this? Too bad I don’t have any Aptx lossless devices

https://www.tomsguide.com/news/bose-quietcomfort-earbuds-2-will-get-a-big-audio-boost-in-2023


----------



## Luke Skywalker

northsider said:


> Good afternoon.I have had Noble Falcon 2 /NFP and now Noble ANC H ..NFP superb sound quality, but found fit unsuitable despite various tips.H ANC good fit , sound quality for podcast/audiobook is top rate.Bloom audio on there website said Noble Mystique is more evolution..There TWS are very good..And at various price points.Cheers


Ya I asked Bloom if I could preorder Mystique but they said they don’t know when they’re arriving


----------



## voicemaster

Luke Skywalker said:


> Wow which sounds best? I have my Monarch Mk2s connected to my UTWS5 but my UTWS3 are sitting in a drawer
> 
> Did you guys hear about this? Too bad I don’t have any Aptx lossless devices
> 
> https://www.tomsguide.com/news/bose-quietcomfort-earbuds-2-will-get-a-big-audio-boost-in-2023


UM Mest MKII -> Hook-X / Variation -> Timeless

Why is everybody so adamant about lossless audio on bluetooth? Make a good sounding TWS or bluetooth headphone and then talk about having lossless. If the quality of the sound tuning is crap no matter what codec even DSD will sound crap. It just another marketing tool for company to use. For me, AptX adaptive is good enough.


----------



## Canabuc

Also read the latest Bose QC2 are getting aptx lossless in January.


----------



## helmutcheese (Dec 26, 2022)

^^ Guy above mentioned/linked to that:

Bose only get 6 hours not sure if that is ANC ON/OFF and if 50% Vol but will be on lowest Codec so AAC or SBC add aptX Codecs esp lossless it be piss poor.


----------



## erockg

voicemaster said:


> UM Mest MKII -> Hook-X / Variation -> Timeless
> 
> Why is everybody so adamant about lossless audio on bluetooth? Make a good sounding TWS or bluetooth headphone and then talk about having lossless. If the quality of the sound tuning is crap no matter what codec even DSD will sound crap. It just another marketing tool for company to use. For me, AptX adaptive is good enough.


Honestly, I could care less about lossless too.  My ears are prob shot from too much metal.  Usually, it's the tuning and soundstage that gets my goat in a pair of buds, IEMs, over ears, not the codec.  Aptx, LDAC yada yada, doesn't get me excited.  But hey, if Bose and the like care enough to add things, that's great.  That said, at least they're not forgetting about their tech/apps like a lot of the buds we talk about on here do.  Granted, they're a big company, but fun nonetheless.


----------



## helmutcheese

*Advise you MUTE your speakers/earbuds!  🤮*


----------



## voicemaster

erockg said:


> Honestly, I could care less about lossless too.  My ears are prob shot from too much metal.  Usually, it's the tuning and soundstage that gets my goat in a pair of buds, IEMs, over ears, not the codec.  Aptx, LDAC yada yada, doesn't get me excited.  But hey, if Bose and the like care enough to add things, that's great.  That said, at least they're not forgetting about their tech/apps like a lot of the buds we talk about on here do.  Granted, they're a big company, but fun nonetheless.


It is just a marketing tool for company to advertise their product. I bet no one doing critical listening while exercising, riding a bus/train, watching youtube, etc. 
What we need is a good push in sound quality with or without ANC, battery life with ANC, transparent mode, call quality and less latency.


----------



## Bhelpoori

I have the QC2 and on mine the noise floor makes any codec differences irrelevant… If you want me to recommend them then fixing the noise floor, bugs and call quality would be much higher up the list.


----------



## Canabuc

erockg said:


> Honestly, I could care less about lossless too.  My ears are prob shot from too much metal.  Usually, it's the tuning and soundstage that gets my goat in a pair of buds, IEMs, over ears, not the codec.  Aptx, LDAC yada yada, doesn't get me excited.  But hey, if Bose and the like care enough to add things, that's great.  That said, at least they're not forgetting about their tech/apps like a lot of the buds we talk about on here do.  Granted, they're a big company, but fun nonetheless.


Yes but having lossless usually also is a feature of premium buds and LC3 allows higher quality over same bitrate.
Not sure why you wouldn't want that.
For me even on ytm  ldac audio sounds better than AAC


----------



## webvan (Dec 27, 2022)

(double post, sorry)


----------



## webvan

Bhelpoori said:


> I have the QC2 and on mine the noise floor makes any codec differences irrelevant… If you want me to recommend them then fixing the noise floor, bugs and call quality would be much higher up the list.


As well as adding a friggin' PASSIVE mode so they can be used for running/biking or when it's very windy! Just got the refund for mine, hopefully they read my note about returning them for that very reason


----------



## erockg

Canabuc said:


> Yes but having lossless usually also is a feature of premium buds and LC3 allows higher quality over same bitrate.
> Not sure why you wouldn't want that.
> For me even on ytm  ldac audio sounds better than AAC


I'm in the Apple ecosystem here 24/7.  It's just not important to me.  I listen for enjoyment while working 85% of the time, not as @voicemaster said, for "Critical Listening."  But that's just me, maybe others too.  I buy all the high end buds, because I'm nuts .  I'd rather have good ANC, transparency and volume controls... and at least 5+ hours battery (maybe I'm missing a few features in my list).  If something is tuned excellent, has a great soundstage with excellent separation, I'm usually sold.  Then again, if it's something like my AirPods Pro 2 that I can toss in my pocket and join my wife to the grocery store, it's a huge plus.  So, I have my stock for listening at home, and others that are for on the go, then my IEMs and some cans for when I want that.  All used with AAC and Lossless on Apple Music most of the time.  

I will say this, my Nuratrue usb adapter is on the way via mail.  Should be here this week.  I'll def be trying it out with all my buds to see how they sound on their higher codecs to see if that makes a huge difference to me.  I'm sitting here listening to a band called Uncle Acid and the Deadbeats with the Nuratrue Pro via an iPhone/Apple Music lossless -- it sounds killer


----------



## voicemaster

Canabuc said:


> Yes but having lossless usually also is a feature of premium buds and LC3 allows higher quality over same bitrate.
> Not sure why you wouldn't want that.
> For me even on ytm  ldac audio sounds better than AAC


Soundcore has LDAC and under $100 so not much of a premium buds. LDAC has too much latency for me as I am using my UTWS5 for playing games on pc too which is why I prefer AptX adaptive. For music listening, it works fine.


----------



## Aevum

If you´re an apple user in the apple ecosystem, theres a reason why apple has their own bluetooth chip, plus if its true that Ultra wide band will replace bluetooth in apple products, they will be a whole generation beyond the rest.


----------



## jant71

Aevum said:


> i regret not buying the AZ-60 over the sony,,
> 
> BTW does the AZ60 lose multipoint when using LDAC ?


More choices as this is how they will fill their line up. AZ80 is coming and an AZ60M2. Might wait to see what that M2 upgrade is about.


----------



## Aevum

i guess i´ll wait, i hope it will be better.


----------



## Luke Skywalker

Ya if I want high sound quantity, I’ll still use a wired setup. But you can’t beat the convenience of Bluetooth. My primary device to use in that scenario is my iPhone so I too am limited to AAC. I just got an A&K DAP which has Aptx and a few others I think but I really only use it wired


----------



## erockg

Not sure if this info is legit, but I did read on the FCC site that the Bowers & Wilkins PI7 S2 were registered.  Hopefully, they fixed the pitfalls like this article says.  You'll have to translate it.

https://www.spill.hk/headphones/Bowers-n-Wilkins-Pi7-S2-Pi5-S2-2022/


----------



## nekonhime

erockg said:


> Not sure if this info is legit, but I did read on the FCC site that the Bowers & Wilkins PI7 S2 were registered.  Hopefully, they fixed the pitfalls like this article says.  You'll have to translate it.
> 
> https://www.spill.hk/headphones/Bowers-n-Wilkins-Pi7-S2-Pi5-S2-2022/


25% increase from 4-5 hours like from 5-6 hours, still not enough


----------



## erockg

nekonhime said:


> 25% increase from 4-5 hours like from 5-6 hours, still not enough


I never listen 5 hours straight without a few breaks.  I'll be getting them day one and I'll report back!  Love my B&W.


----------



## nekonhime

erockg said:


> I never listen 5 hours straight without a few breaks.  I'll be getting them day one and I'll report back!  Love my B&W.


Btw, how your honeymoon with the fw1000t going?


----------



## erockg

nekonhime said:


> Btw, how your honeymoon with the fw1000t going?


We got divorced.


----------



## nekonhime

erockg said:


> We got divorced.


Woah damn, must be because of the lack of app and treble


----------



## erockg

nekonhime said:


> Woah damn, must be because of the lack of app and treble


If it had an app with EQ and a bit more bass for my liking, I would have kept them for sure.  Also tried the Kenwood TWS and whoa, that case could stop a bullet in your front pocket.  Fit was nice though.  ANC not bad.  I liked the JVC better in the end, but not enough to keep them.  Wound up returning them both, but glad I checked them out.  The curiosity was killing me


----------



## nekonhime

erockg said:


> If it had an app with EQ and a bit more bass for my liking, I would have kept them for sure.  Also tried the Kenwood TWS and whoa, that case could stop a bullet in your front pocket.  Fit was nice though.  ANC not bad.  I liked the JVC better in the end, but not enough to keep them.  Wound up returning them both, but glad I checked them out.  The curiosity was killing me


Yeah I feel you, it is a hassle for me to eq the jvc every time I use them with the in the built-in app. But how the kenwood tws open is dope as hell.


----------



## clerkpalmer

erockg said:


> We got divorced.


You've had an awful lot of TWS divorces my friend.  Not sure how you afford it.  Must be a no fault state out there in California.


----------



## erockg

clerkpalmer said:


> You've had an awful lot of TWS divorces my friend.  Not sure how you afford it.  Must be a no fault state out there in California.


100%  Returns, resales blah blah.  WFH is a blessing and a curse.  Funny thing is, I have my favorites, but then keep searching for more which isn't really attainable.  At least it's fun.


----------



## clerkpalmer

erockg said:


> 100%  Returns, resales blah blah.  WFH is a blessing and a curse.  Funny thing is, I have my favorites, but then keep searching for more which isn't really attainable.  At least it's fun.


You can only upgrade to a younger model so many times.  We are still talking about TWS right?


----------



## erockg

clerkpalmer said:


> You can only upgrade to a younger model so many times.  We are still talking about TWS right?


No holds barred here.  Trust me, I typed something similar and then deleted it.  Great minds thing alike.


----------



## Hozay

Luke Skywalker said:


> Ya if I want high sound quantity, I’ll still use a wired setup. But you can’t beat the convenience of Bluetooth. My primary device to use in that scenario is my iPhone so I too am limited to AAC. I just got an A&K DAP which has Aptx and a few others I think but I really only use it wired


Can you indicate which AK DAP you have that supports Aptx please?


----------



## Luke Skywalker

clerkpalmer said:


> You can only upgrade to a younger model so many times.  We are still talking about TWS right?


Ha I remember even I was a kid and my mom turned 40 and my dad said he should trade her in on two 20s. She didn’t seem to think it was nearly as funny as I did.


----------



## Luke Skywalker (Dec 27, 2022)

Hozay said:


> Can you indicate which AK DAP you have that supports Aptx please?


Sure homeslice it’s the SP3000. I’m looking at the specs and it actually has Aptx HD and LDAC. I didn’t even realize that 

https://us.astellnkern.com/products/a-ultima-sp3000

Makes me wish I had some nice LDAC headphones. Perhaps the ML 5909


----------



## Hozay

Luke Skywalker said:


> Sure homeslice it’s the SP3000. I’m looking at the specs and it actually has Aptx HD and LDAC
> 
> https://us.astellnkern.com/products/a-ultima-sp3000


Great. Thx for telling.


----------



## SynaestheticA

I think enough info is out there now for upcoming 2023 TWS to start a list. So what do we have?

Technics AZ80 / 60ms
B&W Pi7 / Pi5 S2
Final ZE8000
Noble Audio Mystique
Campfire audio Orbit (putting it here to fill the list up)
Heard some sleuthing from a few 10's of pages back about new Sennheiser in or Sony in the works?

I guess more to be shown at CES

I've been wanting to buy one of the high end models for a while now but the idea of something better being released a few weeks later is killing me.


----------



## dweaver (Dec 27, 2022)

Well bought my first dud in a while. I decided to try the LG Tone FP5 as I was able to get a pair for $50 and not sure what to make of them.

Super comfy but not sure of their sound at all. The bass is boomy and the overall sound is just not that great. At their MSRP these are definitely not worth the price as I am pretty disappointed at the $50 I paid.

If I use a custom EQ it's like the volume is dropped about 25% as compared to any of the preset EQ's.

Anyone else try these or own them? Any way to make them sound better? Or do I just flip them as quick as I can?


----------



## bigbeans

Made an interesting discovery with a true wireless ciem setup. This is quite good and convenient, thanks @aaf evo for the assist!


----------



## aaf evo

bigbeans said:


> Made an interesting discovery with a true wireless ciem setup. This is quite good and convenient, thanks @aaf evo for the assist!


----------



## bladefd

SynaestheticA said:


> I think enough info is out there now for upcoming 2023 TWS to start a list. So what do we have?
> 
> Technics AZ80 / 60ms
> B&W Pi7 / Pi5 S2
> ...


I hope there is a TWS in $250 or less range haha. $250+ is just too much money to spend on TWS, for me anyways.


----------



## helmutcheese

Above that you are paying for Boutique brands marketing BS, 99% of which will not sound any better than good brands you know at £150-300 buy HEY they are hand painted and some have unique designs! 😜


----------



## SergeTheUkrainian

wow 3308 pages and we still not done yet!? I my self love bluetooth but I don't think we're there yet...


----------



## SynaestheticA

helmutcheese said:


> HEY they are hand painted and some have unique designs! 😜


I'm sold!


----------



## tiagopinto (Dec 28, 2022)

bladefd said:


> I hope there is a TWS in $250 or less range haha. $250+ is just too much money to spend on TWS, for me anyways.



Me too. I’m also limiting myself in that ballpark. As soon as something _decidedly_ different arrives, I’ll upgrade my CA MT. As I really need to cater to other stuff I want. I just got a new ebike and had to fund that and a few trinkets I need for it. I just got the Advar too (amazing). I need a pair of nice active monitors for my home office/studio. I need a new subwoofer for my living room setup... oh well.

I’ve decided it has to be something lossless, so I’m trying not to cave in to APP2, TWX9, Free Byrd, MTW3... we’ll see what comes out of CES and go from there.


----------



## C_Lindbergh

Well once we get proper LE-audio support my budget will be much higher for TWS, mostly because the battery life will increase by a huge margin (just check out the new Audeze Maxwells and you'll get an idea). Also with LE audio you'll have all the feautres on every new device, no matter if its a Samsung, Apple or PC. 

I'd love to pay +500€ for something really special in the near future.-


----------



## Hozay

helmutcheese said:


> Above that you are paying for Boutique brands marketing BS, 99% of which will not sound any better than good brands you know at £150-300 buy HEY they are hand painted and some have unique designs! 😜


so none of those are good brands that you dont have to pay a lot for marketing? techinics/final/campfire/noble/B&W


----------



## helmutcheese

Was that a statement or was there a question in there somewhere? 😕


----------



## Hozay

helmutcheese said:


> Was that a statement or was there a question in there somewhere? 😕


its a question, I am asking if none of those are worth buying. Or which brand is worth buying, compare to "boutique" brands you referred to


----------



## helmutcheese

IMO overpriced, (siesta time bbl).


----------



## Bhelpoori

C_Lindbergh said:


> Well once we get proper LE-audio support my budget will be much higher for TWS, mostly because the battery life will increase by a huge margin (just check out the new Audeze Maxwells and you'll get an idea). Also with LE audio you'll have all the feautres on every new device, no matter if its a Samsung, Apple or PC.
> 
> I'd love to pay +500€ for something really special in the near future.-


While I’m a huge supporter of LE Audio, it is only the audio framework of Bluetooth, so you will only get common audio framework   features on every new device.  For example pairing across devices remains ecosystem specific e.g. Google FastPair or iOS iCloud pairing. In addition, spatial audio or equivalent remains outside because it requires head tracking and additional data info. 

The LC3 codec isn’t magic either. You get the battery saving by using a lower bandwidth for the same quality, however, if you want say 96/24 then you’d need about the same bandwidth as AAC today so would save battery relative to LDAC but not standard SBC/AAC battery consumption. And just a reminder you need LE Audio at both ends so you will need an LE Audio capable device to send it…


----------



## C_Lindbergh (Dec 28, 2022)

Bhelpoori said:


> While I’m a huge supporter of LE Audio, it is only the audio framework of Bluetooth, so you will only get common audio framework   features on every new device.  For example pairing across devices remains ecosystem specific e.g. Google FastPair or iOS iCloud pairing. In addition, spatial audio or equivalent remains outside because it requires head tracking and additional data info.
> 
> The LC3 codec isn’t magic either. You get the battery saving by using a lower bandwidth for the same quality, however, if you want say 96/24 then you’d need about the same bandwidth as AAC today so would save battery relative to LDAC but not standard SBC/AAC battery consumption. And just a reminder you need LE Audio at both ends so you will need an LE Audio capable device to send it…


Yes, obviously it will take many years before most of your devices (on both ends) supports the new standard. But for us enthusiasts it's finally moving forward, the new Audezes seems to be the first commercially avaliable device that supports both LC3 and LC3plus, I'm guessing there wlll be plenty of more devices next year.


When it comes the other end then newer Android phones already supports LC3 and It looks like there's USB adapters on the way for PC.

The benefit of LC3 is exactly the ability to give us great SQ even at a modest bit-rate... It seems to work great too judging by the test that you can take. This will be really beneficial for your portable life when you're out and about.

When it comes to critical listening and more "hardcore"- usage that's were LC3Plus comes in..

Here 2 features really stands out:

- Super wideband quality for VOIP (basically VoLTE)
-  Super low latency

All of this whilst delivering high quality audio (500 kbit/s, 24 bit, 96 kHz).

The codec will most likely be way more stable than LDAC as well.

But yes, it will probably take many years for this to become a new standard even for normal people.

Here's the link were you can compare LC3 codec (from 64 kpbs to 248 kpbs) with SBC and no encoding at 1536 kpbs. LC3 sounds very close to the latter even at a much lower bitrate.

https://www.bluetooth.com/learn-about-bluetooth/recent-enhancements/le-audio/


----------



## futaki (Dec 28, 2022)

based on the title;  we are still very far away.  any $50 wired > any $400 tws.

Also, I don't think there is any resolution difference between the wireless headphones, except for the frequency curves.


----------



## erockg

Hozay said:


> so none of those are good brands that you dont have to pay a lot for marketing? techinics/final/campfire/noble/B&W


All the above have their pros and cons, depending on what you're looking for.  I'm more a fan of the latter three than the first two.  Different strokes for different folks.


----------



## clerkpalmer

erockg said:


> I'm in the Apple ecosystem here 24/7.  It's just not important to me.  I listen for enjoyment while working 85% of the time, not as @voicemaster said, for "Critical Listening."  But that's just me, maybe others too.  I buy all the high end buds, because I'm nuts .  I'd rather have good ANC, transparency and volume controls... and at least 5+ hours battery (maybe I'm missing a few features in my list).  If something is tuned excellent, has a great soundstage with excellent separation, I'm usually sold.  Then again, if it's something like my AirPods Pro 2 that I can toss in my pocket and join my wife to the grocery store, it's a huge plus.  So, I have my stock for listening at home, and others that are for on the go, then my IEMs and some cans for when I want that.  All used with AAC and Lossless on Apple Music most of the time.
> 
> I will say this, my Nuratrue usb adapter is on the way via mail.  Should be here this week.  I'll def be trying it out with all my buds to see how they sound on their higher codecs to see if that makes a huge difference to me.  I'm sitting here listening to a band called Uncle Acid and the Deadbeats with the Nuratrue Pro via an iPhone/Apple Music lossless -- it sounds killer


Nuratrue Pro worth the coin?  How does the USB adapter work?  Is it like the creative dongle?


----------



## clerkpalmer

futaki said:


> based on the title;  we are still very far away.  any $50 wired > any $400 tws.
> 
> Also, I don't think there is any resolution difference between the wireless headphones, except for the frequency curv


Hmm, I think a lot of us here would disagree.  I'll bet several TWS outperform a $50 wired headset.  Go listen to the Noble Fokus Pro and tell me they don't punch above that.  I could name others.  I think your statement is a bit of a generalization and an inaccurate one at that.

Regarding resolution, not sure what you mean you don't "think".  We have different codecs that certainly change resolution so it's also not correct.  Giving you the benefit of the doubt, perhaps you mean that it's not noticeable or meaningful but the technology does in fact change resolution based on codec etc.


----------



## erockg

clerkpalmer said:


> Nuratrue Pro worth the coin?  How does the USB adapter work?  Is it like the creative dongle?


Guessing it's like the Creative.  I'm still waiting on mine.  En route.  Personally, I'm impressed with the Nuratrue Pro.  Using them right now.  The sub-bass these things put out is incredible for a TWS.  Odd that not many are talking about them.  I have had zero issues with them.  Great feature set.  They multi-pair great with my iPhone and iPad.  

I'd say they're worth 2-250.  I paid $199 via Kickstarter.  That said, I paid extra for the transmitter.  They throw it in for _free_ now.  Not a bad deal when you add it up I guess.  Still tip rolling, but settled on some Symbios.


----------



## clerkpalmer

erockg said:


> Guessing it's like the Creative.  I'm still waiting on mine.  En route.  Personally, I'm impressed with the Nuratrue Pro.  Using them right now.  The sub-bass these things put out is incredible for a TWS.  Odd that not many are talking about them.  I have had zero issues with them.  Great feature set.  They multi-pair great with my iPhone and iPad.
> 
> I'd say they're worth 2-250.  I paid $199 via Kickstarter.  That said, I paid extra for the transmitter.  They throw it in for _free_ now.  Not a bad deal when you add it up I guess.  Still tip rolling, but settled on some Symbios.


Hmm.  How's the ANC?


----------



## erockg

clerkpalmer said:


> Hmm, I think a lot of us here would disagree.  I'll bet several TWS outperform a $50 wired headset.  Go listen to the Noble Fokus Pro and tell me they don't punch above that.  I could name others.  I think your statement is a bit of a generalization and an inaccurate one at that.
> 
> Regarding resolution, not sure what you mean you don't "think".  We have different codecs that certainly change resolution so it's also not correct.  Giving you the benefit of the doubt, perhaps you mean that it's not noticeable or meaningful but the technology does in fact change resolution based on codec etc.


Agreed here.  AND I'll be first in line to order the new Noble TWS:  https://bloomaudio.com/products/noble-audio-fokus-mystique-tws  Let's just hope Jim keeps the price point if not lowers it.  If he did, he thought the Fokus sold like hotcakes, the Mystique would destroy.  Now only if he would add some wireless charging in that case!!!


----------



## jant71

C_Lindbergh said:


> Well once we get proper LE-audio support my budget will be much higher for TWS, mostly because the battery life will increase by a huge margin (just check out the new Audeze Maxwells and you'll get an idea). Also with LE audio you'll have all the feautres on every new device, no matter if its a Samsung, Apple or PC.
> 
> I'd love to pay +500€ for something really special in the near future.-


Not apples to apples with headphones though. Ideally the battery life in TWS should stay the same but the quality should jump up. If we just get get a big jump in battery then they would just be caring about efficiency. We should be upping the qualities of all the features which will drop battery and offset the gains. Also depends on the batteries. Do we have the newest and best ones being used and TWS is about size some will choose newer smaller batteries over newer batteries of the same size again off setting gains. Loseless, better ANC and transparency, enough power and headroom plus trying to get smaller leaves zero room for any real battery life gains. Right now you could choose an Aviot flagship with 7 hours battery which is a dual driver or the second level model also a dual driver that has 18 hours per charge. You need to choose quality and take the battery hit or take the quality hit and get a ton of battery life. We should still be around 10 hours ideally but better quality. We already have 15, 18 and 20 hours per charge out there but those are middle of the road efficiency over real quality. 

Would like to see the Maxell battery stats. 80 hours cause it has 1800mah battery but where is the breakdown LDAC vs. LC3Plus etc. Other will give the battery life for various codecs. We need more than listening tests and some battery graphs with real numbers. They are very absent and I think we are gonna be in for a letdown except for the lower bitrate LC3 battery numbers. A lot of talk mostly of using half the bitrate but time to give us real world battery times.


----------



## erockg

clerkpalmer said:


> Hmm.  How's the ANC?


With a perfect seal, not awful.  But nowhere near my Bose QCII or Airpods Pro 2.  Cuts out hum, fans, etc.  Fine here at WFH.  Haven't tried them on a plane et al.  Better than the B&O EX.  I forget what you have to compare.


----------



## clerkpalmer

clerkpalmer said:


> Hmm.  How's the ANC?


$329 seems stiff.  I'd love a new toy but I am on the fence.


----------



## clerkpalmer

erockg said:


> Agreed here.  AND I'll be first in line to order the new Noble TWS:  https://bloomaudio.com/products/noble-audio-fokus-mystique-tws  Let's just hope Jim keeps the price point if not lowers it.  If he did, he thought the Fokus sold like hotcakes, the Mystique would destroy.  Now only if he would add some wireless charging in that case!!!


I wish the Mystique used the form fact of the H-ANC.  I couldn't get a good fit with the Fokus Pro.  It appears to be same shell.


----------



## clerkpalmer

erockg said:


> With a perfect seal, not awful.  But nowhere near my Bose QCII or Airpods Pro 2.  Cuts out hum, fans, etc.  Fine here at WFH.  Haven't tried them on a plane et al.  Better than the B&O EX.  I forget what you have to compare.


Currently the Bose are my daily.  I have the AT's as well but more often I grab the Bose.  Something about the AT's sound signature is a bit boring even though I appreciate it.


----------



## erockg

clerkpalmer said:


> I wish the Mystique used the form fact of the H-ANC.  I couldn't get a good fit with the Fokus Pro.  It appears to be same shell.


Luckily, I don't have issues with the Fokus, but the H-ANC is a very popular shell that works great.  I've had several buds with that shell.  I have to admit, the Mystique looks gorgeous to me.  Great job with the 3D printing.  I do remember the transparency was very weak on the H-ANC, so I hope they developed that a bit more.  I'm fine without ANC.  I've got that covered with others.


----------



## erockg

clerkpalmer said:


> Currently the Bose are my daily.  I have the AT's as well but more often I grab the Bose.  Something about the AT's sound signature is a bit boring even though I appreciate it.


100% why I flipped the AT.  Best they've done to date, but after the honeymoon...


----------



## clerkpalmer

erockg said:


> 100% why I flipped the AT.  Best they've done to date, but after the honeymoon...


Sigh.  Another divorce in my future.  Where do you sell things?  ebay?  Classifieds here tend to be hit or miss.


----------



## jant71

erockg said:


> 100% why I flipped the AT.  Best they've done to date, but after the honeymoon...


Anyone look and notice if they still foamed the driver? I know the CKR70TW needed the foam removed from the tube to improve on the boring factor.


----------



## erockg

clerkpalmer said:


> Sigh.  Another divorce in my future.  Where do you sell things?  ebay?  Classifieds here tend to be hit or miss.


Yeah, eBay.  My wife thinks I'm nuts because I can sell anything.  It's how I keep the ecosystem here going.  Bought the AT for a good price via Amazon Japan so they were easy to flip for a small loss here in the US.  Paid $240 via AJ and flipped for $229 plus shipping back then.  I'm okay with that


----------



## erockg

jant71 said:


> Anyone look and notice if they still foamed the driver? I know the CKR70TW needed the foam removed from the tube to improve on the boring factor.


I didn't look, but I'm sure @clerkpalmer could take a peek before they find a new hubby.


----------



## clerkpalmer

erockg said:


> Yeah, eBay.  My wife thinks I'm nuts because I can sell anything.  It's how I keep the ecosystem here going.  Bought the AT for a good price via Amazon Japan so they were easy to flip for a small loss here in the US.  Paid $240 via AJ and flipped for $229 plus shipping back then.  I'm okay with that


Thoughts on the Nura v Bose?


----------



## clerkpalmer

jant71 said:


> Anyone look and notice if they still foamed the driver? I know the CKR70TW needed the foam removed from the tube to improve on the boring factor.


What am I looking for?


----------



## C_Lindbergh (Dec 28, 2022)

jant71 said:


> Not apples to apples with headphones though. Ideally the battery life in TWS should stay the same but the quality should jump up. If we just get get a big jump in battery then they would just be caring about efficiency. We should be upping the qualities of all the features which will drop battery and offset the gains. Also depends on the batteries. Do we have the newest and best ones being used and TWS is about size some will choose newer smaller batteries over newer batteries of the same size again off setting gains. Loseless, better ANC and transparency, enough power and headroom plus trying to get smaller leaves zero room for any real battery life gains. Right now you could choose an Aviot flagship with 7 hours battery which is a dual driver or the second level model also a dual driver that has 18 hours per charge. You need to choose quality and take the battery hit or take the quality hit and get a ton of battery life. We should still be around 10 hours ideally but better quality. We already have 15, 18 and 20 hours per charge out there but those are middle of the road efficiency over real quality.
> 
> Would like to see the Maxell battery stats. 80 hours cause it has 1800mah battery but where is the breakdown LDAC vs. LC3Plus etc. Other will give the battery life for various codecs. We need more than listening tests and some battery graphs with real numbers. They are very absent and I think we are gonna be in for a letdown except for the lower bitrate LC3 battery numbers. A lot of talk mostly of using half the bitrate but time to give us real world battery times.



Obviously we'll have to wait and see how much battery life will be improved, personally I hope the batteries could be made smaller  in order to make more room for the acoustics/drivers/technology.

But battery/sq is just one aspect like I said, im as interested in the low latency and improved voice quality, this will be a game changer for wireless usage when gaming and doing  various other activities on many different platforms like PCs, Consoles, TVs etc. All standardised as well, even tho it will prob take way longer for TVs/consoles than PCs (i'll swap out my current BT/ Wifi-card  right away when there's a LE audio variant available.

Personally I consider the latter even more important then our debate about battery/sq.

But I guess most people in this community mainly focus on sound quality, which there already are codecs that do the job, even if LDAC is far from perfect.


----------



## erockg

clerkpalmer said:


> Thoughts on the Nura v Bose?


Sound - hands down for me - Nura Pro.  You can just do so much more sound-wise with the Nura Pro.  They have their own personal tuning process and then lets you EQ/tweak that yourself.  Plus the Spatial audio feature is fun.  Bigger driver that really does add a ton of punch esp after you run the Nura tuning.  Mind you, I listen to hard rock/metal a lot.  Old school Maiden etc.  So for me, these really work well.   

ANC - Bose.  Nura Pro has much better _passive_ isolation though.
Transparency - Bose.  Nothing compares to the APP2 imo.
Comfort - Bose.  
Case - Nura Pro.  Because I love wireless charging.
Battery life - Nura Pro on paper.  Haven't tested/compared.
App - Nura Pro.  Tons of customization.  Taps, sound, yada.  Bose keeps adding, so there is that.
Calls - No one has complained to me about either.


----------



## jant71

clerkpalmer said:


> What am I looking for?


These were behind the screens in my AT...




The screens should still be peel and stick. The CKR70TW were easier to see through and notice them.


----------



## clerkpalmer

erockg said:


> Sound - hands down for me - Nura Pro.  You can just do so much more sound-wise with the Nura Pro.  They have their own personal tuning process and then lets you EQ/tweak that yourself.  Plus the Spatial audio feature is fun.  Bigger driver that really does add a ton of punch esp after you run the Nura tuning.  Mind you, I listen to hard rock/metal a lot.  Old school Maiden etc.  So for me, these really work well.
> 
> ANC - Bose.  Nura Pro has much better _passive_ isolation though.
> Transparency - Bose.  Nothing compares to the APP2 imo.
> ...


Interesting.  Too bad I can't get them _now_ at my local best buy.  At least I don't think I can.


----------



## clerkpalmer

jant71 said:


> These were behind the screens in my AT...
> 
> The screens should still be peel and stick. The CKR70TW were easier to see through and notice them.


At first glance, the screen seems to be recessed into the tip.  Not sure I can remove them.


----------



## clerkpalmer

clerkpalmer said:


> Interesting.  Too bad I can't get them _now_ at my local best buy.  At least I don't think I can.


All right, ordered.  Expectations are high.  Prenup signed.


----------



## erockg

clerkpalmer said:


> Interesting.  Too bad I can't get them _now_ at my local best buy.  At least I don't think I can.


I don't think BB has them.  Nura's site which seems to a 1-2 week wait.  But B&H Photo has them in stock, but without the transmitter.  Probably a good thing you can't just go pick them up.


----------



## clerkpalmer

erockg said:


> I don't think BB has them.  Nura's site which seems to a 1-2 week wait.  But B&H Photo has them in stock, but without the transmitter.  Probably a good thing you can't just go pick them up.


Hmm, so $299 no transmitter but 2 days versus $329 plus transmitter plus 1-2 weeks.  I suppose I could cancel and go with B&H.


----------



## jant71

You might be able to tell shining a light down into it. Should be easier with a pin in the ridge to peel up slightly and slowly and peek. Should not even have to remove the screens all the way to remove any foam in the tube either. Should be easy as peel back, pin and pull the foam out and push the screen back in again. If it has foam in there.


----------



## erockg

clerkpalmer said:


> All right, ordered.  Expectations are high.  Prenup signed.





clerkpalmer said:


> Hmm, so $299 no transmitter but 2 days versus $329 plus transmitter plus 1-2 weeks.  I suppose I could cancel and go with B&H.


----------



## clerkpalmer

jant71 said:


> You might be able to tell shining a light down into it. Should be easier with a pin in the ridge to peel up slightly and slowly and peek. Should not even have to remove the screens all the way to remove any foam in the tube either. Should be easy as peel back, pin and pull the foam out and push the screen back in again. If it has foam in ther


Well done.  Will see what I can do.


----------



## Luke Skywalker

tiagopinto said:


> Me too. I’m also limiting myself in that ballpark. As soon as something _decidedly_ different arrives, I’ll upgrade my CA MT. As I really need to cater to other stuff I want. I just got a new ebike and had to fund that and a few trinkets I need for it. I just got the Advar too (amazing). I need a pair of nice active monitors for my home office/studio. I need a new subwoofer for my living room setup... oh well.
> 
> I’ve decided it has to be something lossless, so I’m trying not to cave in to APP2, TWX9, Free Byrd, MTW3... we’ll see what comes out of CES and go from there.


I don’t think lossless Bluetooth exists


----------



## Luke Skywalker

erockg said:


> Agreed here.  AND I'll be first in line to order the new Noble TWS:  https://bloomaudio.com/products/noble-audio-fokus-mystique-tws  Let's just hope Jim keeps the price point if not lowers it.  If he did, he thought the Fokus sold like hotcakes, the Mystique would destroy.  Now only if he would add some wireless charging in that case!!!


Oh ya me too. I even asked Bloom if I could preorder but they said they can’t because they don’t know when they’re coming


----------



## nekonhime

Luke Skywalker said:


> I don’t think lossless Bluetooth exists


"Yet", but less latency can mean more radiation since they either need more power or more effective codecs


----------



## Luke Skywalker

erockg said:


> Yeah, eBay.  My wife thinks I'm nuts because I can sell anything.  It's how I keep the ecosystem here going.  Bought the AT for a good price via Amazon Japan so they were easy to flip for a small loss here in the US.  Paid $240 via AJ and flipped for $229 plus shipping back then.  I'm okay with that


Yeah I’ve probably saved $1,000 buying here. Big shout out to MusicTeck who repaired my 2nd hand UM Indigo for free!


----------



## bladefd

nekonhime said:


> "Yet", but less latency can mean more radiation since they either need more power or more effective codecs


Can't go wrong with Uranium-powered TWS! Just need a tiny speck for all the power you need to run it for decades


----------



## dweaver

OK, 2nd day trying out these LG FP5 and found a better sounding EQ that works for me.

At $50 these are pretty decent once you EQ them. Super comfy and pretty decent features.

The ANC is OK but not great, same for ambient mode.

From what I read the more expensive models sound the same as this model, so glad I never spent any more money on them as the UV feature isn't something I am overly concerned about, certainly not worth another $120CAD.


----------



## erockg

bladefd said:


> Can't go wrong with Uranium-powered TWS! Just need a tiny speck for all the power you need to run it for decades


1.21 gigawatts is all you need.


----------



## erockg

dweaver said:


> OK, 2nd day trying out these LG FP5 and found a better sounding EQ that works for me.
> 
> At $50 these are pretty decent once you EQ them. Super comfy and pretty decent features.
> 
> ...


I've had both the FP8 and the T90.  They're fine, but Airpods Pro 2 (which I have now) and Galaxy Buds 2 Pro are sooooo much better.  LG aren't awful.  Nice and small and I liked the controls.  UV feature is eh.  Who knows if it even works!


----------



## dweaver

erockg said:


> I've had both the FP8 and the T90.  They're fine, but Airpods Pro 2 (which I have now) and Galaxy Buds 2 Pro are sooooo much better.  LG aren't awful.  Nice and small and I liked the controls.  UV feature is eh.  Who knows if it even works!


Agree on the GB2P being better . For $50 these are OK, but definitely not worth their MSRP. Just wanted to see what LG managed to create. The biggest thing I am not a fan of is the bass which is a bit boomy and lacking detail.


----------



## dilpal

james444 said:


> To me, it's the QCY HT05 (aka Melobuds ANC):
> 
> https://www.qcyearbuds.com/qcy-ht05/
> 
> ...


I am considering to buy these. Currently have qcy t13 and those sound excellent. How are the mids on HT05? I am a sucker of good mids.


----------



## james444

dilpal said:


> I am considering to buy these. Currently have qcy t13 and those sound excellent. How are the mids on HT05? I am a sucker of good mids.



Out of the box, the mids are too laid-back. But if you take my EQ recommendation as a baseline and then fine-tune it to your preference, I think you won't be disappointed.

On a side-note, I have the Soundpeats Capsule 3 Pro incoming, which cost just $10 more than the QCY HT05 and support LDAC. I intend to EQ them similarly to the HT05 and then compare both in a listening test to find out whether the Soundpeats might become my new budget kings.


----------



## Aevum

i bought the soundpeats mini HS and they are absolute garbage, muffled, connection issues, 

Gave them to my brother.


----------



## helmutcheese (Dec 29, 2022)

^^ Do they fit you well?

You must really love your brother! 😋


----------



## dilpal (Dec 29, 2022)

james444 said:


> Out of the box, the mids are too laid-back. But if you take my EQ recommendation as a baseline and then fine-tune it to your preference, I think you won't be disappointed.
> 
> On a side-note, I have the Soundpeats Capsule 3 Pro incoming, which cost just $10 more than the QCY HT05 and support LDAC. I intend to EQ them similarly to the HT05 and then compare both in a listening test to find out whether the Soundpeats might become my new budget kings.


Thanks. I just checked your signature and you have mentioned Ostry KC06. These were my favourite IEMs on those time and introduced me to good quality mids. It was only IEM I bought multiple times due to its mids. Wonder I can find somewhat similar in TWS form factor.


----------



## Bhelpoori

C_Lindbergh said:


> Yes, obviously it will take many years before most of your devices (on both ends) supports the new standard. But for us enthusiasts it's finally moving forward, the new Audezes seems to be the first commercially avaliable device that supports both LC3 and LC3plus, I'm guessing there wlll be plenty of more devices next year.
> 
> 
> When it comes the other end then newer Android phones already supports LC3 and It looks like there's USB adapters on the way for PC.
> ...


LC3 Plus is not aimed at Bluetooth but other radio carriers, such as DECT or proprietary e.g gaming which if you want to cross check you can see this directly in communications from Fraunhofer the inventors… It is also requires a fee/license. 

All of the same features of LC3 Plus are already in the Bluetooth license that are usable on Bluetooth. “Super Low” Latency of LC3Plus in not achievable on Bluetooth because of the radio carrier but you will generally be able to get latency down to 15ms plus whatever is OS dependent which is good enough given wired today is around 35ms for standard headphones like Apple EarPods (inc OS).

Voice is one of the biggest advantages of LE-Audio since it unifies the handset and headphone profiles into one cohesive framework that is actually quite neat. It will allow, finally, lots of good VoIP features to happen… but today, there are already ways to do wideband codecs and I’m betting if you are using Apple or Jabra you are already have the ability to use one but it’s just a bit of a mess and since the both sides have to keep switching/guessing which profile you are on then it all becomes buggy and defaults back to something from 20+ years ago… which is what LE-Audio will solve. Note also that super wideband makes background microphone background noise suppression more difficult, but that’s a whole other subject…

SBC was a default free codec added to the original A2DP spec 20 years ago. One would hope that LC3 is significantly better…Glad to hear that it is actually better. A lot of work by a lot of people got us to this place…


----------



## Bhelpoori

nekonhime said:


> "Yet", but less latency can mean more radiation since they either need more power or more effective codecs


Running lossless audio (aka ALAC or FLAC) ar 1.4Mbps over Bluetooth 2Mbps today is possible but why would you? I’d guess your battery would need to be 3x the size or have 1/3rd battery life, the range would be terrible, and it would not work at all in challenging radio environments. It is pointless too since LC3 will give the equivalent quality at much lower bandwidth. 

Bluetooth strictly controls the transmitter and receiver power…so more power isn’t really possible.


----------



## Aevum

he just said "give me whatever you´re not using" i tried to give him my Starfield with my old BTR5.


----------



## cresny (Dec 29, 2022)

The TWS parade keeps marching on, but some of the ancient models -- like from 6 months ago! -- deserve some props so as not to get trampled under foot. With all the mixed mode travel I do in the holiday season I need a good all-rounder, and this year the Huawei free buds Pro 2 have been it. Above average noise canceling plus the planar diaphragm second driver make for very good listening on the subway and the street, tuning is excellent across all frequencies. These are also the best I have for wind noise. The build quality and reliability is tops. In short, I guess I could say that these come as close to the Android APP2 equivalent.

So with all that said, for people in the US who have to deal with the Huawei embargo and have to do nasty things like side load the app, I've noticed the Oppo Enco X2 can be had for around $129, have the same driver design and by some reports here are slightly superior. These are a great value and should not be missed.


----------



## Hozay

erockg said:


> All the above have their pros and cons, depending on what you're looking for.  I'm more a fan of the latter three than the first two.  Different strokes for different folks.


never tried any campfire earbuds, have you got your replacement for orbit and how is it?


----------



## erockg

Hozay said:


> never tried any campfire earbuds, have you got your replacement for orbit and how is it?


Not yet, got a refund and am going to get them from Amazon with some gift cards from the holidays.  They're no frills, so if you're looking for stuff with features, like ANC and Transparency, maybe look elsewhere depending on what you want to spend.


----------



## Vonbuddy

Gizaudio just gave review on new fiio wireless.  All I will say is it wasn’t promising.  I guess I will wait on Noble Fokus upgrade.


----------



## erockg

Vonbuddy said:


> Gizaudio just gave review on new fiio wireless.  All I will say is it wasn’t promising.  I guess I will wait on Noble Fokus upgrade.


Yup, had the FW5 and returned them.  Wanted them to be great, but Noble Fokus crushes them IMO.  d


----------



## helmutcheese (Dec 29, 2022)

Jesus some half-baked review, he never had a user manual and no App.

From a real user here not some YTuber, I think they sound great most of the time (depends on the genre and quality of the files) they are not so forgiving for lower quality files but that is the same for any good ear/headphones that do not shape the sound too much as that is what an EQ is for.

That said sometimes there is something missing as another user here put it, also the past 2 nights they sound totally different, more boomy bass, not as nice as before strange I know but I will mess with other tips more so Spinfits now I am only using them indoors due to poor passive NC.

Now the shape/fit comfort/controls/passive seal/battery/case are all pretty poor IMO and unlike some owners here I seem to have very poor BT range.

As I said before if from Amazon they would be going back after 1 FW update or the month whatever comes first.


----------



## dweaver

Maybe a good thing the FW5 is not available in Canada yet .

Also got to sell some stuff before I buy anything new at that price range.


----------



## SynaestheticA

Dang my FW5 arrives in the next 3 days, determined to like it, the shell form isn't a problem for me so hopefully most issues are alleviated there. 

Also have the ZE8000 coming in the next 3 days. If the Japanese translations are anything to go by I'll be overwhelmed and vomiting from the detail....couldn't resist that kind of marketing.


----------



## dweaver

Look forward to your take on the FW5 and ZE8000


----------



## BigZ12

Fiio app, PEQ for FW5. Update today.
Haven't tested yet though.


----------



## helmutcheese (Dec 30, 2022)

Is that Apple?

I ask as FiiO Control is now at v3.5 for Android.

*NVM*, I removed my sideloaded v3.5 as it stops the update, now on v3.6 so thanks for the info.

Updating FW now.

Got new settings including Codec selection, even after a factory reset/re-pair still poor BT range and I doubt battery life is any better.


----------



## C_Lindbergh

Really looking forward to next week!


----------



## tiagopinto

Luke Skywalker said:


> I don’t think lossless Bluetooth exists



I know.



C_Lindbergh said:


> Well once we get proper LE-audio support my budget will be much higher for TWS, mostly because the battery life will increase by a huge margin (just check out the new Audeze Maxwells and you'll get an idea). Also with LE audio you'll have all the feautres on every new device, no matter if its a Samsung, Apple or PC.
> 
> I'd love to pay +500€ for something really special in the near future.-



This is what I intended to mention. I’m waiting for LE Audio. Better resolution and better battery.


----------



## Hozay

SynaestheticA said:


> Dang my FW5 arrives in the next 3 days, determined to like it, the shell form isn't a problem for me so hopefully most issues are alleviated there.
> 
> Also have the ZE8000 coming in the next 3 days. If the Japanese translations are anything to go by I'll be overwhelmed and vomiting from the detail....couldn't resist that kind of marketing.


How did you get the ze8000? I thought it can only be pre-ordered from their Japan website and deliver to a Japan address.


----------



## SynaestheticA

Hozay said:


> How did you get the ze8000? I thought it can only be pre-ordered from their Japan website and deliver to a Japan address.


Local stockists has it listed as in stock. That being said, order placed on Thursday with express shipping and still no fulfillment.


----------



## erockg

clerkpalmer said:


> Hmm, so $299 no transmitter but 2 days versus $329 plus transmitter plus 1-2 weeks.  I suppose I could cancel and go with B&H.





erockg said:


>


Got the transmitter and finally tried it out today.  Yes, you can really hear a difference with the Nuratrue Pro.  At first play, I was like, huh... wow.  That said, I can't seem to figure out what codec it's streaming outside of Hi-Res Apple Lossless in my Apple Music app.  Have to keep playing with it... er uh, the adapter.


----------



## helmutcheese

What does Apple use for a "Hi-Res" Codec (not talking the music services ALAC streaming Codec) and what is its output ie. 24/48, 24/96 etc?


----------



## Hozay

SynaestheticA said:


> Local stockists has it listed as in stock. That being said, order placed on Thursday with express shipping and still no fulfillment.


Can you indicate which stockist is it? I would like to check if they can ship to UK.


----------



## erockg

helmutcheese said:


> What does Apple use for a "Hi-Res" Codec (not talking the music services ALAC streaming Codec) and what is its output ie. 24/48, 24/96 etc?


Guessing you're asking me?  See attached.


----------



## BigZ12 (Dec 30, 2022)

New Fiio Control app has a firmware update (1.26) for FW5.
EQ with Harman Curve etc. included.

Edit: No ambient/transparency mode or other improvements as far as I’ve seen.


----------



## SynaestheticA

BigZ12 said:


> New Fiio Control app has a firmware update (1.26) for FW5.
> EQ with Harman Curve etc. included.
> 
> Edit: No ambient/transparency mode or other improvements as far as I’ve seen.



Have you tested the new eq out?


----------



## helmutcheese

Sounds terrible to me, I opt for NO EQ or if needed the EQ in PowerAmp set to Pop EQ+Tone (bass 25% & Treble 50%).


----------



## bladefd (Dec 30, 2022)

erockg said:


> Got the transmitter and finally tried it out today.  Yes, you can really hear a difference with the Nuratrue Pro.  At first play, I was like, huh... wow.  That said, I can't seem to figure out what codec it's streaming outside of Hi-Res Apple Lossless in my Apple Music app.  Have to keep playing with it... er uh, the adapter.


Does the adapter work with other TWS earbuds? Or just Nuratrue Pro?


----------



## erockg

bladefd said:


> Does the adapter work with other TWS earbuds? Or just Nuratrue Pro?


I've only connected with my Nuratrue Pro and my B&W PX8.  So that would lead me to believe yes, they do.  I just can't see what codec they're using via my iPad Pro to my B&Ws.  I have to find a non-Apple device to try the adapter with.  You put the adapter in pairing mode, then the headphones you want to connect into pairing mode and they auto-connect with one another.


----------



## bladefd

erockg said:


> I've only connected with my Nuratrue Pro and my B&W PX8.  So that would lead me to believe yes, they do.  I just can't see what codec they're using via my iPad Pro to my B&Ws.  I have to find a non-Apple device to try the adapter with.  You put the adapter in pairing mode, then the headphones you want to connect into pairing mode and they auto-connect with one another.


How do they sound with the adapter? I might buy adapter for pc and use with some other TWS. Nuratrue Pro looks too big for comfort tbh


----------



## erockg (Dec 30, 2022)

bladefd said:


> How do they sound with the adapter? I might buy adapter for pc and use with some other TWS. Nuratrue Pro looks too big for comfort tbh


It's just the outer shell of the NTP that is large... the inner portion is not and sits well in your ears.  I have large ears and no issues.  Swapped the wings to no wings and then added the stock XL tips.  Works well.  They sound incredible.  I put them on Spatial audio mode and watched Alice in Borderlands via my Nreal Air glasses in bed while everyone else was asleep.  Talk about immersion.  So much fun.

Again, I have to figure out what codec it's transmitting. 

https://help.nurasound.com/hc/en-us...Supported-Source-Devices-and-Bluetooth-Codecs

Edit:  Found this on the Nura site:  The transmitter will automatically enable the highest quality codec supported by the transmitter and the connected device.


----------



## SynaestheticA

Hozay said:


> Can you indicate which stockist is it? I would like to check if they can ship to UK.


Sent a pm


----------



## Juturna

I still haven't found a pair of TWS's I enjoy as much as the Liberty 3 Pro's. 
Bought the Nuratrue Pro's the other day and they can't hold a candle to the L3P's regarding sound, like not even close. Especially don't like how they (Nuratrue) sound with more guitar-based music.
The L3P's are just ridiculously good value for the money. But I like how they sound and how good they are for phone calls, bur I'm not crazy about their size (neither buds nor case), the wingtips, the mediocre ANC, etc.


So I'm really itching for an upgrade though... But I'm not sure where to throw my money at this point. 
Fokus Pro would be good but it seems to be out of stock everywhere that seems trustworthy, Beoplay EX seems to be slightly too poor regarding ANC for the asking price. 
Also kinda want to check out the Bose QC II's, but I'm only expecting ANC to be better, not the other parts.


----------



## SynaestheticA

Juturna said:


> I still haven't found a pair of TWS's I enjoy as much as the Liberty 3 Pro's.
> Bought the Nuratrue Pro's the other day and they can't hold a candle to the L3P's regarding sound, like not even close. Especially don't like how they (Nuratrue) sound with more guitar-based music.
> The L3P's are just ridiculously good value for the money. But I like how they sound and how good they are for phone calls, bur I'm not crazy about their size (neither buds nor case), the wingtips, the mediocre ANC, etc.
> 
> ...


New Noble coming out soon.

The thing with this hobby is I find its hard to just be content with the bud you have. It seems easier with iems that don't have all the expected features. We don't seem as forgiving with TWS. I'd say you already have one of the top 3-5 tws (maybe #1 for value) and you aren't going to upgrade to a more expensive option without losing one of the things you like about the L3P. Even the focus still won't exhibit ANC and that might be the one that's worth it for an sq upgrade.


----------



## TerryX1

Sony WF-1000XM4 is the way to go, great sound and noise cancellation is tops in it's class.


----------



## helmutcheese (Dec 31, 2022)

Had at launch, not my cup of tea SQ or ANC.

FYI Bose have the best ANC for now.


----------



## clerkpalmer

erockg said:


> I've only connected with my Nuratrue Pro and my B&W PX8.  So that would lead me to believe yes, they do.  I just can't see what codec they're using via my iPad Pro to my B&Ws.  I have to find a non-Apple device to try the adapter with.  You put the adapter in pairing mode, then the headphones you want to connect into pairing mode and they auto-connect with one another.


Assume you need a cck to use with iPhone? Ordered my pros 3 days ago. No shipping notification. Irritating.


----------



## clerkpalmer

TerryX1 said:


> Sony WF-1000XM4 is the way to go, great sound and noise cancellation is tops in its class.


Solid. Fit is iffy however.


----------



## Juturna

helmutcheese said:


> Had at launch, not my cup of tea SQ or ANC.
> 
> FYI Bose have the best ANC for now.


Same here, I really did not like the XM4's AT ALL. The sound was not to my liking no matter how much I EQd them, and I had horrible fit with them as well.

I've been looking at buying the Bose but the ANC seems to be about the only really impressive thing about them, though.


SynaestheticA said:


> New Noble coming out soon.
> 
> The thing with this hobby is I find its hard to just be content with the bud you have. It seems easier with iems that don't have all the expected features. We don't seem as forgiving with TWS. I'd say you already have one of the top 3-5 tws (maybe #1 for value) and you aren't going to upgrade to a more expensive option without losing one of the things you like about the L3P. Even the focus still won't exhibit ANC and that might be the one that's worth it for an sq upgrade.


Yeah for sure, definitely makes you picky. It's because when you have that many features compared to regular IEMs. IEM's basically need to sound good and be comfortable. TWSs need to sound good, be comfortable, have good call quality, decent ANC, good control scheme, have good battery life in both buds and case, and also needs a good size on the case itself.

But yeah back to that point, I'm completely okay with TWS omitting ANC if they're among the top dogs for sound. So with Fokus Pro/Mystique or whatever the new ones were called, I'm completely fine with it. I usually either buy for audio quality or for the "all-rounder"/everyday earbuds where I obviously care about sound, but good ANC, pocketable case and good call quality is equally important.


----------



## clerkpalmer

@Juturna, don't sleep on the Bose as being only about the ANC.  They have excellent SQ and fit.  While I don't think the SQ is on the Fokus level, its still excellent.  Worst case scenario, you return them.  And the ANC is _really _good.  At their current sale price, for an all around TWS, I'm not sure there's anything better.


----------



## clerkpalmer

erockg said:


> Guessing you're asking me?  See attached.


This is the streaming quality _before _bluetooth correct?  Bluetooth will then be downsampled to standard AAC?  Just want to make sure I'm not missing something on IOS.


----------



## clerkpalmer

Just one guy's opinion on the Nura Pros:

https://www.tomsguide.com/opinion/these-are-my-favorite-earbuds-of-the-year


----------



## clerkpalmer

Juturna said:


> I still haven't found a pair of TWS's I enjoy as much as the Liberty 3 Pro's.
> Bought the Nuratrue Pro's the other day and they can't hold a candle to the L3P's regarding sound, like not even close. Especially don't like how they (Nuratrue) sound with more guitar-based music.
> The L3P's are just ridiculously good value for the money. But I like how they sound and how good they are for phone calls, bur I'm not crazy about their size (neither buds nor case), the wingtips, the mediocre ANC, etc.
> 
> ...


I think you'll find the thrill of the hunt is often more rewarding than the upgrades themselves.  TWS are a mature product at this point and there isn't much room left for innovation.  We already know that changes to codecs don't even really improve SQ much.   You're left with personal preferences for features and tuning and not much else.  Upgrades tend to be side grades at best.  I'm sure advances will happen, but it's slow and incremental.  Basically not much different than a smart phone.


----------



## Canabuc

Freebuds pro 2 inbound. When the original model came out I was really enjoying must if what they offered.
The sound was good not great and needed EQing as sound was a bit warm. There was no in app EQ. So glad too use wavelet or the EQ in my Samsung which would not save to the buds on other devices.

Otherwise it has very good ANC and transparency. Qi charging. Asking first with  connection to 2 devices at same time.

Well now they have upper the ANC by 8db. Added equalizer and custom presets. Added a dual driver setup with planar magnetic driver ( like oppo) and had been tuned by Devialet. LDAC also added and a claimed frequency response from 14-48khz.
So outside of mediocre battery life it has hit or improved all of the features I could want.
It also has an app for iOS users unlike Samsung. 
I know people don't love Huawei but this seems like a very well designed tws. Not sure why not discussed more here. Will leave my impressions when they arrive.

If these aren't the ones then at this point I will wait another 6 months until the other big names all release their updates that take advantage of LC3 BLE.


----------



## Canabuc

clerkpalmer said:


> I think you'll find the thrill of the hunt is often more rewarding than the upgrades themselves.  TWS are a mature product at this point and there isn't much room left for innovation.  We already know that changes to codecs don't even really improve SQ much.   You're left with personal preferences for features and tuning and not much else.  Upgrades tend to be side grades at best.  I'm sure advances will happen, but it's slow and incremental.  Basically not much different than a smart phone.


I disagree on a few of these points. Higher res Codecs do change the sound for me. Things open up a bit and I can sense more dynamic range in the music.
Also ANC has really improved over last 2 years as did multipoint connection. All of these have made true wireless buds much better. 
I think back to my liberty 2 pro that aren't so old and they were big bulky no ANC or transparency. Poor call quality as well and controls on bud were limited.


----------



## cresny (Dec 31, 2022)

clerkpalmer said:


> Just one guy's opinion on the Nura Pros:
> 
> https://www.tomsguide.com/opinion/these-are-my-favorite-earbuds-of-the-year


No comment here on the product but the reviewer's tracklist was composed entirely of very tame vocals tracks. Just shows how much salt you have to keep on these reviews.


----------



## clerkpalmer

Canabuc said:


> I disagree on a few of these points. Higher res Codecs do change the sound for me. Things open up a bit and I can sense more dynamic range in the music.
> Also ANC has really improved over last 2 years as did multipoint connection. All of these have made true wireless buds much better.
> I think back to my liberty 2 pro that aren't so old and they were big bulky no ANC or transparency. Poor call quality as well and controls on bud were limited.


What I said was codecs don't improve things _much_.  I didn't say they didn't at all and in most cases, the drawbacks aren't worth the minute gains in SQ (poor connection, reducted battery life etc).  I'll bet in a blind test,  you'd be hard pressed to pick which one is hi res but I won't argue about it.  Your ears may be much better than mine.  To be clear, we aren't talking about the difference between SBC and LDAC.  The jump from AAC to LDAC on the other hand - minor at best to the human ear and not a feature that most care about.

I also didn't say improvements don't happen, I just said that they are slow and incremental.  You referred to a time period of 2 years which is proving my point.  Yes, in 2 years, TWS will be better than they are today.  But in 6 months, probably not.  Just like my iphone 14 is somewhat better than my iphone 12 but probably not better than my iphone 13.  ANC and multipoint have been around for several years.  Nothing new there. Slow, incremental improvements. 

The bottom line is at this stage of the game, it's mostly about features, tuning and personal preferences. With so many excellent products on the market, there literally is an option for everyone across all price points.


----------



## Canabuc

True multi point has not been around that long. 
Decent or better ANC is only about 2 and half years out.

And AAC on Android does not sound anywhere close to LDAC. AAC on iOS is much better but do some research ( I think sound guys may have done an article) and you will see that there is significant fall off in the upper frequencies which really dulls the sound.


----------



## helmutcheese (Dec 31, 2022)

I prefer SBC over AAC even after it was bastardised by QUALCOMM to remove a lot of features, AAC at 250k with CD Rips @ 320k does not match no matter what Apple claim 250k is not 320k so it will up-sampled but in Windows it can go to 300-330k or abouts, on Android it sucks.

I cannot agree AAC to LDAC is minor and I am not a LDAC Fanboy, aptX for most of my music and aptX HD or aptX Adaptive or LDAC for Hi-Res files.


----------



## clerkpalmer

helmutcheese said:


> I cannot agree AAC to LDAC is minor and I am not a LDAC Fanboy, aptX for most of my music and aptX HD or aptX Adaptive or LDAC for Hi-Res files.


For fun, I'd probably put $100 on a bet that you couldn't pick up the difference between LDAC and AAC (over IOS not Android) in a blind listening test. And even if you could, the differences would likely be related to something different than LDAC versus AAC.  The most likely differences are in source material.  There is a long scientific discussion over this in the Air Pods Max thread and people much smarter than me concluded that AAC over IOS is transparent to the human ear. But you're welcome to your opinions.  I used to argue in favor of LDAC etc but I've since been persuaded that I was wrong.


----------



## helmutcheese (Dec 31, 2022)

First I have extremely good hearing (it is a curse not a gift) and second I will never own Apple products, but I know I can hear the difference from CD Rips be it even Flac to 24/48 files and to lesser extent 24/96 (depends on the files/genre).

None of that matters is the actual devices are not very good esp. the actual speakers.

I have read all this so called "limit of human hearing" and same as a gamer I have also read "we cannot see more than 60FPS".

I just do my own thing, but I do not go for snake oil like the earthing boxes and £100's silver cables making it sound better.

I have lived over half a century and I find in general most people, talk a lot of 💩💩💩


----------



## clerkpalmer

helmutcheese said:


> First I have extremely good hearing (it is a curse not a gift) and second I will never own Apple products, but I know I can hear the difference from CD Rips be it even Flac to 24/48 files and to lesser extent 24/96 (depends on the files/genre).
> 
> None of that matters is the actual devices are not very good esp. the actual speakers.
> 
> ...


I don't doubt then that you can pick up the differences.  And perhaps with exceptional hearing, the differences are material.  For 99.99% of the planet, any theoretical difference between LDAC and AAC is just not meaningful in the real world wearing TWS on buses, trains, gyms etc.  So it's just not a feature that matters to me.  I'm sure the tech will develop and eventually even Apple will go to a lossless format but it probably won't be leaps and bounds better than what we already have.  Take care of your golden ears.  And avoid hard rock concerts ...


----------



## Canabuc

Fact is more than half the world doesn't use iOS and AAC on Android is not very good.


----------



## clerkpalmer

Canabuc said:


> Fact is more than half the world doesn't use iOS and AAC on Android is not very good.


Right. Swap Aptx for AAC if you are using android. Aptx and aac perform very
Similarly but AAC is more advanced.


----------



## helmutcheese (Dec 31, 2022)

aptX matches or beats LDAC @ 330 (AAC does not), the same for aptX HD vs LDAC @ 660 going by many reviewers and IMO but LDAC had that 990 high end for a long while till aptX Adaptive came along.

Also, not as battery hungry though AAC does win that but not an Apple-to-Apple test as it is only 250k so obv not as hungry as 320+990k

One of the most advanced (at the time) AAC codec variant was Ahead Nero's back in the day, SBC had a lot of features cripple in Android so it was also a good/more advanced Codec one upon a time.


----------



## erockg

clerkpalmer said:


> This is the streaming quality _before _bluetooth correct?  Bluetooth will then be downsampled to standard AAC?  Just want to make sure I'm not missing something on IOS.


No idea.  But that is what shows on my phone when using my dongle.  Hey now.  Tried a bit yesterday, but can't figure out what is streaming from my device.  All I found was that Nura says the dongle will stream the highest codec supported by your headphone.


----------



## erockg

clerkpalmer said:


> Assume you need a cck to use with iPhone? Ordered my pros 3 days ago. No shipping notification. Irritating.


Happens.  Sure they got slammed by the holidays.  Small Australian company I believe.  They do ship through the Amazon network though.  Guess you couldn't cancel and do BH.


----------



## erockg

Juturna said:


> I still haven't found a pair of TWS's I enjoy as much as the Liberty 3 Pro's.
> Bought the Nuratrue Pro's the other day and they can't hold a candle to the L3P's regarding sound, like not even close. Especially don't like how they (Nuratrue) sound with more guitar-based music.
> The L3P's are just ridiculously good value for the money. But I like how they sound and how good they are for phone calls, bur I'm not crazy about their size (neither buds nor case), the wingtips, the mediocre ANC, etc.
> 
> ...


See, I didn't like the LP3P as much as you by far.  Sure, I get it, the LP3P can be had cheap these days, but I bought them at launch and had horrible sibilance.  Also, found many others that sounded better.  Shows you everyones ears are different.  I think the NTP are waaaaay better than the LP3P.  Same as the Fokus Pro and EX.  BQC2 are the best they've made imo.  If you're a sub-bass guy and listen to hard rock/metal, the Nuratrue Pro just crushes my brain.  Love them.


----------



## erockg

helmutcheese said:


> Had at launch, not my cup of tea SQ or ANC.
> 
> FYI Bose have the best ANC for now.


I don't know if I agree.  My Airpods Pro 2 give them a run for their money in some situations.  Neither have great passive isolation though.  I have some Azla tips on my APP2 that do help.


----------



## erockg

Canabuc said:


> Freebuds pro 2 inbound. When the original model came out I was really enjoying must if what they offered.
> The sound was good not great and needed EQing as sound was a bit warm. There was no in app EQ. So glad too use wavelet or the EQ in my Samsung which would not save to the buds on other devices.
> 
> Otherwise it has very good ANC and transparency. Qi charging. Asking first with  connection to 2 devices at same time.
> ...


Bunch of us ordered the FP2 off Amazon Japan months back.  Myself included.  They were nice, but I wound up flipping.  I didn't think ANC was that great, but maybe this update fixed that.  Sound was nice, not as good as Devialet Gemini imo, but if you can get a good seal, not bad.  Battery was eh.  You might dig them, they're pretty.


----------



## clerkpalmer

erockg said:


> I don't know if I agree.  My Airpods Pro 2 give them a run for their money in some situations.  Neither have great passive isolation though.  I have some Azla tips on my APP2 that do help.


Having owned both, i still the Bose is better by a decent margin. The APP2 are impressive given the open design. I keep thinking I’ll try them again but the sound is thin to me.


----------



## erockg

helmutcheese said:


> First I have extremely good hearing (it is a curse not a gift) and second I will never own Apple products, but I know I can hear the difference from CD Rips be it even Flac to 24/48 files and to lesser extent 24/96 (depends on the files/genre).
> 
> None of that matters is the actual devices are not very good esp. the actual speakers.
> 
> ...


I've lived as long as you, if not more, and sometimes I can hear angels fart.  Maybe that's just my kid.  But after years of too much metal, I do hear things I shouldn't hear.  It's a blessing and a curse.  

I will always own an Apple product and I hope many others do.  I drank the Kool Aid years ago, and very much prefer their OS.  I've tried everything Android and always come back.  I digress.  

I too can hear the difference with between my old CD rips and the new stuff.  Some of the stuff I listen to will never achieve todays standards because no one cares to go back and remaster many of those albums.  So I'll always be stuck with what some feel is an inferior codec.  But some days I prefer to listen to my vinyl over those hi-res codes stuff anyway.  Just like I prefer 24p most times when I shoot on my iPhone over the 4k or even the Samsung 8k I had once.  At times, if music and or movies are too clean, they lose their intimacy.  But for perspective, this is coming from someone who works in the entertainment business.


----------



## erockg

clerkpalmer said:


> Having owned both, i still the Bose is better by a decent margin. The APP2 are impressive given the open design. I keep thinking I’ll try them again but the sound is thin to me.


Change your tips.  I bought an adapter and put on those Azlas, or other stuff.  I agree, the Bose sound better.  Both have come a long way fortunately. Both in my arsenal.  I don't like white buds so I even wasted money and got black Colorware APP2.  Always do.  Ugh.  Sad.


----------



## Ghisy

Canabuc said:


> Fact is more than half the world doesn't use iOS and AAC on Android is not very good.


Android actually has 72% of the global marketshare for mobile OS. 50/50 is US only.


----------



## clerkpalmer

erockg said:


> Change your tips.  I bought an adapter and put on those Azlas, or other stuff.  I agree, the Bose sound better.  Both have come a long way fortunately. Both in my arsenal.  I don't like white buds so I even wasted money and got black Colorware APP2.  Always do.  Ugh.  Sad.


Do the tips improve sq or just isolation and fit?


----------



## erockg

clerkpalmer said:


> Do the tips improve sq or just isolation and fit?


For me, a better fit/isolation.  Better seal for more bass for me, but no, not a HUGE diff.  You'll still prefer your Bose sound if I had to guess.


----------



## Evshrug

helmutcheese said:


> What does Apple use for a "Hi-Res" Codec (not talking the music services ALAC streaming Codec) and what is its output ie. 24/48, 24/96 etc?






The Bluetooth streaming output will be determined by your smartphone/source’s transmission codec capabilities and your headphone’s reception capabilities. But HiRes is 24/196 kHz ALAC.

I’m thinking about picking up a WiiM Pro next time they’re back in stock, for home use, but I’m still pretty happy with aac & aptX for portable use.


----------



## Evshrug

erockg said:


> Change your tips.  I bought an adapter and put on those Azlas, or other stuff.  I agree, the Bose sound better.  Both have come a long way fortunately. Both in my arsenal.  I don't like white buds so I even wasted money and got black Colorware APP2.  Always do.  Ugh.  Sad.


I admire your dedication. Could you possibly share a link to the tip adapter, that sounds really clever!


----------



## erockg

Evshrug said:


> I admire your dedication. Could you possibly share a link to the tip adapter, that sounds really clever!


The ones I have seem to be oos now on Amazon.  

I use these as well.  They include the adapter as well:  ePro Patented Horn-Shaped for AirPods Pro Ear Tips, Replacement Silicone Earbud Tips, Pressure Relief Vents Design with Dust Mesh, AP00, 4 Pcs, Large https://a.co/d/bmkL7ox

Lots of similar options on Amazon too.

Here are the Azla tips I’m using this week because they fit in the case:  AZLA SednaEarfit Crystal 2 Pairs (Size L) Replacement Earbud Tips Eartips for TWS - Compatible with Galaxy Buds 2, Buds, Buds+ https://a.co/d/dGpjsUT


----------



## clerkpalmer

erockg said:


> No idea.  But that is what shows on my phone when using my dongle.  Hey now.  Tried a bit yesterday, but can't figure out what is streaming from my device.  All I found was that Nura says the dongle will stream the highest codec supported by your headphone.


The creative dongle lets you switch so that’s interesting.


----------



## mikp

Aevum said:


> i bought the soundpeats mini HS and they are absolute garbage, muffled, connection issues,
> 
> Gave them to my brother.


the new ldac versions?


----------



## Luke Skywalker

erockg said:


> I've lived as long as you, if not more, and sometimes I can hear angels fart.  Maybe that's just my kid.  But after years of too much metal, I do hear things I shouldn't hear.  It's a blessing and a curse.
> 
> I will always own an Apple product and I hope many others do.  I drank the Kool Aid years ago, and very much prefer their OS.  I've tried everything Android and always come back.  I digress.
> 
> I too can hear the difference with between my old CD rips and the new stuff.  Some of the stuff I listen to will never achieve todays standards because no one cares to go back and remaster many of those albums.  So I'll always be stuck with what some feel is an inferior codec.  But some days I prefer to listen to my vinyl over those hi-res codes stuff anyway.  Just like I prefer 24p most times when I shoot on my iPhone over the 4k or even the Samsung 8k I had once.  At times, if music and or movies are too clean, they lose their intimacy.  But for perspective, this is coming from someone who works in the entertainment business.


“Angel Fart” would be a great name for a band


----------



## Ultrainferno

Happy New year! The first review of 2023 is all about the Apple AirPods Pro 2. In this article we check out how they perform, sound and why we're giving it the first Recommended Buy Award of the year. Now on Headfonia!

https://www.headfonia.com/apple-airpods-pro-2-review/


----------



## Juturna

erockg said:


> See, I didn't like the LP3P as much as you by far.  Sure, I get it, the LP3P can be had cheap these days, but I bought them at launch and had horrible sibilance.  Also, found many others that sounded better.  Shows you everyones ears are different.  I think the NTP are waaaaay better than the LP3P.  Same as the Fokus Pro and EX.  BQC2 are the best they've made imo.  If you're a sub-bass guy and listen to hard rock/metal, the Nuratrue Pro just crushes my brain.  Love them.


Thing is that I've tried several of the top "mainstream" TWS's ( many many years in a row, and with mainstream I'm not talking about the more niched ones like Fokus Pro etc) and I still put the L3P's *very* high if not at the absolute top of the ones I've tried.

I 100% agree that they sound like absolute crap straight out of the box, but they are probably the most EQ-friendly buds I've tried so far, and I don't even need to use Wavelet either with them. I'm very treble/sibilance-sensitive and I have very little issue with that after just a little EQ tbh.

l think the Nuratrue Pro's are really good, they've grown on me a bit. But they still sound a bit veiled to me unfortunately. Also think how they sound seems to be very varied depending on the measurements they make on your hearing. I have two profiles I tried setting up that sounds vastly different.

To me, rock and metal sounds FANTASTIC on the L3Ps, but pretty damn bad on my Nuratrues. Like I don't want to listen to that type of music when I'm using the Nuratrues.
It sounds a bit muffled and compressed to my ears. But honestly, even trying now as I write this, it sounds OK, maybe a bit better than that even.
I think it was that I needed some "brain burn-in" after using the L3P's too.

I haven't heard the fokus Pro and the EX i've only demoed in store, but yeah they did sound very good.


----------



## Caipirina (Jan 1, 2023)

Ultrainferno said:


> Happy New year! The first review of 2023 is all about the Apple AirPods Pro 2. In this article we check out how they perform, sound and why we're giving it the first Recommended Buy Award of the year. Now on Headfonia!
> 
> https://www.headfonia.com/apple-airpods-pro-2-review/


The article mentions twice the price of 299USD ... isn't it 249USD? Same as APP1 on introduction?

And what does 'foreign' mean in "a proximity sensor is at the inner side, hidden from _foreign_ viewers."   even in cursive ...


----------



## erockg

Juturna said:


> Thing is that I've tried several of the top "mainstream" TWS's ( many many years in a row, and with mainstream I'm not talking about the more niched ones like Fokus Pro etc) and I still put the L3P's *very* high if not at the absolute top of the ones I've tried.
> 
> I 100% agree that they sound like absolute crap straight out of the box, but they are probably the most EQ-friendly buds I've tried so far, and I don't even need to use Wavelet either with them. I'm very treble/sibilance-sensitive and I have very little issue with that after just a little EQ tbh.
> 
> ...


 Did you redo the tuning a few times?  I did mine out of the box, turned on spatial audio and then did a tiny bit of EQ, mostly to tame the bass.  Love it!  I still have my Fokus Pro and EX.  FP will prob leave to be replaced by the upcoming Mystique.  EX is just plain solid, so it's a permanent fixture in my collection until B&O top it.


----------



## Canabuc

For any of those who bought the Enco X2 from Oppo .I am just very curious where you got them from and whether or not it had a Chinese or a global firmware on it. If I don't like my Huawei ones I am contemplating going for that but I am worried I will have a Chinese firmware that will either not allow me to have English or to update to LDAC.


----------



## SynaestheticA

Canabuc said:


> For any of those who bought the Enco X2 from Oppo .I am just very curious where you got them from and whether or not it had a Chinese or a global firmware on it. If I don't like my Huawei ones I am contemplating going for that but I am worried I will have a Chinese firmware that will either not allow me to have English or to update to LDAC.


I've got the enco x (1) and use an Oppo. The phone is automatically integrated with the buds via Bluetooth settings where you control all settings. Naturally this is in your phone language. 

When I use my work phone (Samsung) I've downloaded the 'Hey Melody' app which is in English and quite functional and easy to use. 

I think the Enco X2 will still be using hey melody so you should be in the clear.


----------



## Canabuc

SynaestheticA said:


> I've got the enco x (1) and use an Oppo. The phone is automatically integrated with the buds via Bluetooth settings where you control all settings. Naturally this is in your phone language.
> 
> When I use my work phone (Samsung) I've downloaded the 'Hey Melody' app which is in English and quite functional and easy to use.
> 
> I think the Enco X2 will still be using hey melody so you should be in the clear.


So there is no separate firmware world vs China? My only option would be to order from Ali Express


----------



## Hyperfluxe (Jan 1, 2023)

What flagship smartphones do you guys use with your Noble Audio FoKus Pro/top TWS of your choice for a clean aptX Adaptive output? I've been using an LG V60 this whole time and it sounded great but it's nearly 4 years old and too slow as a daily driver.

My best upgrade options were the Asus ROG 6 Pro (which sounds worse for some reason via aptX Adaptive even with the Dirac tuning software/AudioWizard fully disabled via ABD, I suspect it's a "Snapdragon Sound" issue with spatial EQ/DSP enhancement). Other than that it's the perfect phone in terms of performance for my daily driver.

The other option is the Sony Xperia 1-IV NA version but now that the V is confirmed to have the next gen SDG2 chipset with proper thermal management I think I'd rather wait it out a few more months until the summer for that iteration.

The S23 Ultra would be ideal which comes out in less than 6 weeks but despite having SDG2 it likely won't support advanced aptX codecs due to Samsung's refusal to pay Qualcomm and implement their own SSC codec to sell more GBuds.

For now my temporary solution is to use a Pixel 7 Pro (it was a gift) and a Nura 5.3 Bluetooth transmitter which will hopefully bring my FoKus Pro back to V60 level sound quality over Bluetooth. It's pretty outrageous that a 4 year old smartphone sounds better over Bluetooth than the aforementioned flagships which cost $2.3k CAD (the V60 was barely over $500 CAD when I bought it new on day 1 after selling the second screen and included TWS). I'm starting to think I need a dedicated DAP even for Bluetooth listening...


----------



## SynaestheticA

Canabuc said:


> So there is no separate firmware world vs China? My only option would be to order from Ali Express


Maybe I don't understand the question. The app hey melody is global. The enco X2 has LDAC which you can use on any supporting device. It might change with the X2 but I don't think it's like the Fiio app that allows you to push LDAC through if your phone doesn't have it. 

I've hunted around and Ali xpress seems to be the only seller rn. 

Maybe someone with the x2 can chime in?


----------



## C_Lindbergh

Hyperfluxe said:


> The S23 Ultra would be ideal which comes out in less than 6 weeks but despite having SDG2 it likely won't support advanced aptX codecs due to Samsung's refusal to pay Qualcomm and implement their own SSC codec to sell more GBuds.



A very small part of me hopes they'll finally license it now that it looks like every region will get a Qualcomm SoC...But Wont prob happen


----------



## nekonhime

Hyperfluxe said:


> What flagship smartphones do you guys use with your Noble Audio FoKus Pro/top TWS of your choice for a clean aptX Adaptive output? I've been using an LG V60 this whole time and it sounded great but it's nearly 4 years old and too slow as a daily driver.
> 
> My best upgrade options were the Asus ROG 6 Pro (which sounds worse for some reason via aptX Adaptive even with the Dirac tuning software/AudioWizard fully disabled via ABD, I suspect it's a "Snapdragon Sound" issue with spatial EQ/DSP enhancement). Other than that it's the perfect phone in terms of performance for my daily driver.
> 
> ...


Wait for the rog phone 7 if you can, rog 6 is a disaster. I returned mine long ago


----------



## clerkpalmer

This place is selling new in box APP2 for $135 today. That’s like offering a crackhead 50 percent off… ordered. 

https://www.discountstoresavings.com/


----------



## mainguy

Man going back to wired iems after a while on Airpods Pro 2...Lord, do good wired iems still spank tws as an overall experience. Not even critical listening, just the sheer scale and meatiness of good wired iems. Hope tws gets better soon.


----------



## clerkpalmer

mainguy said:


> Man going back to wired iems after a while on Airpods Pro 2...Lord, do good wired iems still spank tws as an overall experience. Not even critical listening, just the sheer scale and meatiness of good wired iems. Hope tws gets better soon.


What wired IEM?


----------



## Hearforthemusic

mainguy said:


> Man going back to wired iems after a while on Airpods Pro 2...Lord, do good wired iems still spank tws as an overall experience. Not even critical listening, just the sheer scale and meatiness of good wired iems. Hope tws gets better soon.


Funnily enough I dug out an old galaxy S10 today, downloaded Qobuz onto it, and dug out my old (not been used for at least 2 years) iBasso IT01s tonight and have been listening to various tracks with a big old grin - think I might even grab a new set of wired iems now


----------



## erockg

mainguy said:


> Man going back to wired iems after a while on Airpods Pro 2...Lord, do good wired iems still spank tws as an overall experience. Not even critical listening, just the sheer scale and meatiness of good wired iems. Hope tws gets better soon.


I mean, you can't really compare the best TWS to the APP2.  The APP2 are good for what they are but things like the Noble Fokus Pro, B&O EX and now, even the Nuratrue Pro destroy the APP2 in sound IMO.  

That said, none of the above can beat my Thieaudio Clairvoyance or SE846 on a pair of good TWS adapters or wired for sure.  Not to mention my PX8 or H95 cans.  It's a whole other world, but that's to be expected


----------



## SynaestheticA

Still have never used expensive iems other than the akg ones that came with old Samsung phones (note 9). I have no reference point for how good a tws sounds other than against over ears which is a different experience. On one hand I'm intrigued as I prefer the in ear experience, on the other other hand I like not knowing how good Good iems are


----------



## clerkpalmer

erockg said:


> I mean, you can't really compare the best TWS to the APP2.  The APP2 are good for what they are but things like the Noble Fokus Pro, B&O EX and now, even the Nuratrue Pro destroy the APP2 in sound IMO.
> 
> That said, none of the above can beat my Thieaudio Clairvoyance or SE846 on a pair of good TWS adapters or wired for sure.  Not to mention my PX8 or H95 cans.  It's a whole other world, but that's to be expected


Been very satisfied with the px7 si2. How’s the px8? Always chasing it seems.


----------



## erockg

clerkpalmer said:


> Been very satisfied with the px7 si2. How’s the px8? Always chasing it seems.


Love them.  Better build quality and a small edge in sound.  But the PX7 S2 are def no slouch.


----------



## SynaestheticA

H


Hozay said:


> Can you indicate which stockist is it? I would like to check if they can ship to UK.


Hey again,

Was reading reviews on e-earphone and noticed a pop up suggesting they ship internationally which I hadn't noticed when looking on E-earphone . jp for other tws a few months ago.

I tested it out and managed to get all the way through to the payment page.

The only thing I noticed was that when selecting country/province the only option was "overseas", so once I put all my local address information in it came out like "overseas/sydney/17 sydney st, 2000, NSW" I also had to use a Japanese name converter to fill in the mandatory katakana name section.

It all seems like a lot and maybe a little risky but the website shop specifically says they ship overseas, but perhaps you could email the store, they are one of the few with a decent amount of reviews for the ZE8000.

https://www.e-earphone.jp/products/detail/1468923/

https://japanesenameconverter.nolanlawson.com/


----------



## cresny

Canabuc said:


> So there is no separate firmware world vs China? My only option would be to order from Ali Express


FWIW, I downloaded/ sideloaded firmware for my Huawei free buds Pro 2s. But that was only because I sideloaded the app, given that the US available app was over a year old at the time. It then proceeded to update my buds' firmware. I have no idea what geographic region my firmware was from. But in the end I think it just did firmware things, giving me this and that regular tunings, buttons, whatnots. There's no language to speak of. I actually don't have the app on my current phone, not sure if I'm missing an update. It's weird having to go through hoops, hopefully not something I have to do for long.

All that being said, I'm not sure if Oppo has the same weird government restrictions. And anyway, aren't you in Canada? If so, none of what I've been talking about may even apply


----------



## SynaestheticA

cresny said:


> FWIW, I downloaded/ sideloaded firmware for my Huawei free buds Pro 2s. But that was only because I sideloaded the app, given that the US available app was over a year old at the time. It then proceeded to update my buds' firmware. I have no idea what geographic region my firmware was from. But in the end I think it just did firmware things, giving me this and that regular tunings, buttons, whatnots. There's no language to speak of. I actually don't have the app on my current phone, not sure if I'm missing an update. It's weird having to go through hoops, hopefully not something I have to do for long.
> 
> All that being said, I'm not sure if Oppo has the same weird government restrictions. And anyway, aren't you in Canada? If so, none of what I've been talking about may even apply


Ah I understand the issue now. The Hey Melody app is designed by and for Oneplus and Oppo, so I don't think there are any restrictions there. If so you can install it using APK which I still don't fully understand but managed to do pretty easily with the Victor App.


----------



## james444

SynaestheticA said:


> I think the Enco X2 will still be using hey melody so you should be in the clear.


I can confirm that X2 is using HeyMelody.


----------



## Juturna

Okay, I have spent some more time with the Nuratrue Pro's, and I will revise my previous statement about the Liberty 3 Pro's being a whole lot better than these. 
These are great-sounding IF you take your time to EQ them through Wavelet, which kinda takes away a bit about the whole "schtick" of the entire earbud, that you're supposed to get the optimal sound from just running the hearing test. 
I think that really just proves a bit of a point though - Maybe it really did give me the optimal output for my hearing, but it doesn't take into account what type of music I like and what type of sound signature I generally would prefer.  
But I also set up 3 different profiles and they all sounded very different, so I'm not sure how solid their test actually is. 

But anyway, to the actual positives. 
The ANC is far better than I thought it would be. I haven't heard the Bose QCII's and it's been a long time since I had the XM4's, but this ANC is no joke either. 
Both the Galaxy Buds Pro and the L3P's that I used before had very average ANC capabilities and in comparison this really does filter out a whole lot of noise. 
I think they're also pretty comfortable, but I had some slight fit issues that were all but completely alleviated by switching to the foam eartips and using the ear "wing" to hold the earbuds in place. 
Haven't done many phone calls so can't comment on the quality of the calls, but it seems passable, at least. 
I think I'm only getting regular AptX since I'm currently using a Samsung device and they don't support AptX Adaptive AFAIK, which is a bit of a bummer.

My issue with using the earbuds without Wavelet was honestly that no matter what I did, vocals just took the backseat completely with every track I tried, even when I tried dialing up the mids in the nura app EQ, and I felt like there was this slight haze to the upper mids and there was no "edge" to heavier guitar music all. 
With Wavelet all my gripes with the sound was fixed, and even though I'm not _blown away_, I still think it sounds very good. I still prefer the L3P's for heavier music, but the Nuratrue's sound more natural and less "artificial" in a way, if that makes sense?

I also enjoy the way the Nuratrues do spatial audio, it's very subtle and really doesn't destroy the audio completely like some other brands spatial audio does. I'm not actually sure I prefer it to leaving it off though, I feel like it varies on a song-by-song basis if I think it sounds better with it on or off.  

On the negative side, I think the Nura app is very annoying though, because it seems like it needs to reconnect to the earbuds about every 5 minutes if I leave the app at all, and reconnecting takes like 10 seconds or so which might not sound like a lot, but it's certainly annoying. 
I'm starting to realize that I really don't need more earbuds because sound quality will generally be good, but... I am always hoping to find that earbud that makes me go "oh ****" as if I was hearing my favorite music for the first time again. But I don't think that really exists at this point...


----------



## Juturna

By the way, what ARE your opinions on the Astell & Kern UW100? Saw somebody selling them somewhat cheap close to where I live, but the reviews are all quite varied. Someone said they don't sound better than the XM4's which is an extremely low bar in my opinion, and others are saying they are among the absolute best sound-wise.


----------



## mainguy

clerkpalmer said:


> What wired IEM?


Campfire Solaris & 7Hz timeless.


Hearforthemusic said:


> Funnily enough I dug out an old galaxy S10 today, downloaded Qobuz onto it, and dug out my old (not been used for at least 2 years) iBasso IT01s tonight and have been listening to various tracks with a big old grin - think I might even grab a new set of wired iems now


Do it! It's not really an inconvenience, especially if you have a iFi Go blu or similar and they crush the tws in sound


erockg said:


> I mean, you can't really compare the best TWS to the APP2.  The APP2 are good for what they are but things like the Noble Fokus Pro, B&O EX and now, even the Nuratrue Pro destroy the APP2 in sound IMO.
> 
> That said, none of the above can beat my Thieaudio Clairvoyance or SE846 on a pair of good TWS adapters or wired for sure.  Not to mention my PX8 or H95 cans.  It's a whole other world, but that's to be expected


I've heard the APP2 are very competitive with the EX on sound though?
I did have the PI7 for a good while, running aptx-hd they sounded good, and are supposedly up there with the EX. Alas, wired iems still sounded a lot better.


----------



## clerkpalmer

mainguy said:


> Campfire Solaris & 7Hz timeless.


Probably not reasonable to expect a TWS to perform similarly to the Campfire.  I wouldn't attribute the deficit to bluetooth as much as I would other factors.  While I haven't personally used them, many here have reported superb sound quality using traditional IEMs plus TWS adapters.  Biggest issue there is making sure the adapter can drive the IEM properly.  In my experience, a $200 chi fi IEM can be pretty damn good as well for pure audio quality.  TWS on the other hand serves a different more varied purpose.  Music, phone calls, media, ANC, exercise etc.


----------



## Hozay

SynaestheticA said:


> H
> 
> Hey again,
> 
> ...


wow thats great! Thx for sharing. I have actually heard this retailer before, Crinacle uploaded a tour video in this shop on Youtube. I think I will email them for details.


----------



## erockg

mainguy said:


> Campfire Solaris & 7Hz timeless.
> 
> Do it! It's not really an inconvenience, especially if you have a iFi Go blu or similar and they crush the tws in sound
> 
> ...


Oh man, no, I don't think the APP2 compare to the EX for sound imho.  Others on here could vouch for that too.  I do enjoy them both for different situations.  

Loved the PI7 and am looking forward to the S2 that are supposedly coming.


----------



## subguy812

erockg said:


> Oh man, no, I don't think the APP2 compare to the EX for sound imho.  Others on here could vouch for that too.  I do enjoy them both for different situations.
> 
> Loved the PI7 and am looking forward to the S2 that are supposedly coming.


EX for the win!


----------



## mainguy

erockg said:


> Oh man, no, I don't think the APP2 compare to the EX for sound imho.  Others on here could vouch for that too.  I do enjoy them both for different situations.
> 
> Loved the PI7 and am looking forward to the S2 that are supposedly coming.


Interesting, I'd get the EX but am also keenly awaiting PI8 to see if they fix the AAC issue! Loved those buds. Very nice look too.


----------



## erockg

mainguy said:


> Interesting, I'd get the EX but am also keenly awaiting PI8 to see if they fix the AAC issue! Loved those buds. Very nice look too.


Haven't heard about the PX8 coming, but I'm sure they're in development.  The FCC site lists the PI7 S2s and so do some international sites.  Nice colors.  I'm a sucker for B&W and B&O


----------



## erockg

Juturna said:


> By the way, what ARE your opinions on the Astell & Kern UW100? Saw somebody selling them somewhat cheap close to where I live, but the reviews are all quite varied. Someone said they don't sound better than the XM4's which is an extremely low bar in my opinion, and others are saying they are among the absolute best sound-wise.


I had the A&K UW100 and wish I never got rid of them.  By then, A&K stopped making them and I could never find them here in the US to re-purchase.  Loved the sound and fit.  I'd say they're up there with some of the best sounding out at the time.  I stalk eBay every now and then with the hopes of finding a reasonably priced new pair.


----------



## subguy812

erockg said:


> I had the A&K UW100 and wish I never got rid of them.  By then, A&K stopped making them and I could never find them here in the US to re-purchase.  Loved the sound and fit.  I'd say they're up there with some of the best sounding out at the time.  I stalk eBay every now and then with the hopes of finding a reasonably priced new pair.


That's one I missed... Was curious, really wanted to hear them.


----------



## clerkpalmer

erockg said:


> Love them.  Better build quality and a small edge in sound.  But the PX7 S2 are def no slouch.


Thanks. Probably what I need to hear. I kick the treble up a bit and I’m pretty happy with them. Doesn’t sound like the upgrade is worth 2x the price.


----------



## Canabuc

SynaestheticA said:


> Ah I understand the issue now. The Hey Melody app is designed by and for Oneplus and Oppo, so I don't think there are any restrictions there. If so you can install it using APK which I still don't fully understand but managed to do pretty easily with the Victor App.


Thanks for those who have replied. I guess I just read somewhere that there may be different firmwares depending on if you had a Chinese addition or a global one. Perhaps if you have the Chinese one you don't have access to ldac but I'm not sure. In any case my free buds Pro 2 to arrive tomorrow and I will give them a go. If the sound profile is not quite my cup of tea then I will go for the Oppo.


----------



## erockg

clerkpalmer said:


> Thanks. Probably what I need to hear. I kick the treble up a bit and I’m pretty happy with them. Doesn’t sound like the upgrade is worth 2x the price.


But, you know, you could always flip them to cover some cost!


----------



## dweaver

Well, sold some gear and kept reading of challenges people were having withe Fiio FW5 and decided to wait until they are available through Amazon Canada or possibly Electronics for Less Canada.

In the mean time I finally succumbed to buying the Sony WF-1000XM4 while still available on sale.

Just had to see for myself if they were any good LOL.

Out of the box the sound is actually not bad but I found an EQ settings I liked.

I will have to do some AB testing against what I still own but I do think these are a clear step up from the Linkbuds S for sound. The S is just to bland compared to the GB2P and other TWS I own. Once I bought something better I started to have a hard time enjoying them. But the XM4 doesn't seem to suffer the same blandness and I am not finding them nearly as dark or bass heavy as I thought I would.

So will see how I like them over the next couple of weeks.

Getting them on sale I think I will be able to flip them without to big a loss of decide they are not my cup of tea. I will also watch out for signs of the XM5 dropping in case I need flip them faster.

I sold my AZ60 so can't AB against them now. But I think I am enjoying the XM4 more. But will never be able to say 100% for sure and more importantly fully why. The bass just feels a bit more punchy and the mids are a bit more engaging. I was able to bring the lower treble up a bit more to my liking as well.

My custom EQ is +3 +5 +7 +5 +3 with +1 for clear bass.

On the AZ60 I could never fully find an EQ I liked. I had the same issue with the Linkbuds S even though it uses the same app as the XM4. But these are sounding really nice, so they seem to respond better to the EQ settings. It may also be partially because I didn't mind the initial default signature.

Didn't need more than 20 minutes of testing the foam tips to switch to the good old Hybrid tips LOL. I don't care though as I was expecting that when bought them 😉.


----------



## Canabuc

dweaver said:


> Well, sold some gear and kept reading of challenges people were having withe Fiio FW5 and decided to wait until they are available through Amazon Canada or possibly Electronics for Less Canada.
> 
> In the mean time I finally succumbed to buying the Sony WF-1000XM4 while still available on sale.
> 
> ...


Where do you flip your old buds?


----------



## dweaver (Jan 3, 2023)

Facebook market place, got $145 for them, so got around 1 year use for $55, not to bad! 

Good reason to patiently wait for a sale before buying.

Wasted a ton of money on the Linkbuds S and GB2P at full retail. Just silly on my part.


----------



## Juturna

What are y'alls opinion, are the Beoplay EX worth getting even if I have the Nuratrue Pro's for sound quality alone? For those who've tried both. 

I'm thinking of buying a second set of earbuds this month and I either have the option of buying a pre-owned (but only tested and otherwise not used) set of B&O EX for around $250 (they retail at an equivalent of $420 here) just for the sound, or getting the Bose QC II's to really have an excellent earbud for ANC when I really need it.

Also honestly guys, why does it feel like the want for new TWS earbuds is an itch on my literal _soul _that just can't be scratched without actually buying some new toys? Like yeah, I'm glad that it's TWS's instead of heroin or gambling... but damn.


----------



## Juturna

erockg said:


> I had the A&K UW100 and wish I never got rid of them.  By then, A&K stopped making them and I could never find them here in the US to re-purchase.  Loved the sound and fit.  I'd say they're up there with some of the best sounding out at the time.  I stalk eBay every now and then with the hopes of finding a reasonably priced new pair.


Ah, balls. Had the chance of getting a pair for $150 that had been listed as for sale for a long time, but I hesitated after reading some less than favorable reviews that said that the sound was worse than the XM4's (that I didn't like) with less clarity in the mids and treble, which to me seems weird because the XM4's are notorious for being kinda dark-sounding, so it made me pause, and now it seems like the guy removed the listing. 

I mean, I could still buy them for full retail here, but I'm not paying that price for them I think. If they were the absolute cream of the crop and bested something that's widely regarded as "the best" for sound, like the Fokus Pro for an example, I might consider it... but otherwise, nah I don't think so.


----------



## SynaestheticA

Juturna said:


> Also honestly guys, why does it feel like the want for new TWS earbuds is an itch on my literal _soul _that just can't be scratched without actually buying some new toys? Like yeah, I'm glad that it's TWS's instead of heroin or gambling... but damn.


Yep. These feels.  Bought the Fiio fw5 and didn't want to wait 15 days for a new toy so purchased the ZE8000 the next day (due to arrive same day as fw5 due to holidays). Needed the fix now. 

Keep telling myself that "I'd be spending more on recreational cocaine". Am I starting to like tws more than the music I use them for? Yuuuup


----------



## Luchyres

Bloom Audio will now let you place a pre-order for the Mystique for $359.


----------



## jaydoc1

Hozay said:


> wow thats great! Thx for sharing. I have actually heard this retailer before, Crinacle uploaded a tour video in this shop on Youtube. I think I will email them for details.


If you're looking for ZE8000's, Melbourne, Australia store 'Addicted to Audio' has them listed as available on their web-store - give them a try for delivery (link is https://addictedtoaudio.com.au/products/final-ze8000-noise-cancelling-true-wireless-earphones ). 
For Aussie audiophiles Addicted to Audio and Minidisc are our 2 go-2 places. Good stores.
Cheers !


----------



## Juturna

Luchyres said:


> Bloom Audio will now let you place a pre-order for the Mystique for $359.


Goddamnit. I was like "yeah, I'm actually going to buy them, **** that they're expensive it doesn't matter, let's goooo" and then they shipped to like a select 7 or so countries... and I don't live in either of those.


----------



## cresny

Canabuc said:


> Thanks for those who have replied. I guess I just read somewhere that there may be different firmwares depending on if you had a Chinese addition or a global one. Perhaps if you have the Chinese one you don't have access to ldac but I'm not sure. In any case my free buds Pro 2 to arrive tomorrow and I will give them a go. If the sound profile is not quite my cup of tea then I will go for the Oppo.


Now I remember, LDAC is why I downloaded the Chinese app. For some reason I needed to toggle "high resolution" audio in app, and mine didn't have that. Funny thing is after I toggled it, I think the option disappeared.


----------



## erockg (Jan 3, 2023)

Luchyres said:


> Bloom Audio will now let you place a pre-order for the Mystique for $359.





Juturna said:


> Goddamnit. I was like "yeah, I'm actually going to buy them, **** that they're expensive it doesn't matter, let's goooo" and then they shipped to like a select 7 or so countries... and I don't live in either of those.


Whoa, that's pricey for a few extra features. Ugh.  Eh, I guess it's only $10 more than the retail cost of the Fokus Pro...


----------



## scubaphish

erockg said:


> Whoa, that's pricey for a few extra features. Ugh.  Eh, I guess it's only $10 more than the retail cost of the Fokus Pro...


To be fair, they are the only features I complained about/asked for, and I doubt I’m alone in that.

Whether I can flip my NFP to cover enough of these is the question.


----------



## james444

Canabuc said:


> Thanks for those who have replied. I guess I just read somewhere that there may be different firmwares depending on if you had a Chinese addition or a global one. Perhaps if you have the Chinese one you don't have access to ldac but I'm not sure. In any case my free buds Pro 2 to arrive tomorrow and I will give them a go. If the sound profile is not quite my cup of tea then I will go for the Oppo.





cresny said:


> Now I remember, LDAC is why I downloaded the Chinese app. For some reason I needed to toggle "high resolution" audio in app, and mine didn't have that. Funny thing is after I toggled it, I think the option disappeared.



I had the same problem with earlier versions of the international app and firmware. But with the most recent versions, the "high resolution" option is available.


----------



## bladefd

CES begins in 2 days. LET'S GOOOOOO!


----------



## C_Lindbergh

Yees! Should se announcements very soon!


----------



## dweaver

I'm going to cry if Sony announces the WF-1000XM5 and they look and feel like the Linkbuds S but have as good or better sound as the XM4 wit XM4 levels of battery life...

Or just enjoy the XM4 until the XM5 goes on sale.... No damn sense paying full retail! LOL


----------



## mikp

Got the soundpeats mini pro ldac, and luckily they are listenable.
No mtw2 or mtw3, but not bad for what they are. Used them for 4- hour hikes and ambient works ok, can adjust them without the touch controls getting pressed.

They play loud enough and with some eq sound fine for buds in a tiny case. 40$ included import tax not bad.  Already damaged one set of tws in the cold, so not risking the mtw3.


----------



## helmutcheese (Jan 3, 2023)

*These are NOT READY! ❌ SoundPEATS Opera05 vs Opera03 Review*


----------



## Canabuc

Got the Huawei but likely going back. 2 minute test sounds very good but seems like since android 13 update Samsung and google phones are not able to connect by LDAC. Now I see people complaining on Huawei forums and then not taking ownership.


----------



## erockg

Meh.  Nope:  https://www.engadget.com/wisear-neural-earbuds-prototype-015323031.html?src=rss&guccounter=1


----------



## dweaver

I have to say I might be satisfied for a while... These WF-1000XM4 are a bit big in ear but with Spinfit are comfortable. The Sony hybrids are also comfortable but we're completely Ng loose, so am testing the SP nfits instead.

Sonically these are way better than I expected, I vastly prefer their do nd to the Linkbuds S. Just a lot more of everything in comparison, better bass, mids, treble, sound stage etc. Pretty much an upgrade in every way sonically. The Linkbuds have better ambient though, by quite a big margin. If they marry the best of both into the XM5 they will be a damn compelling package.


----------



## jant71 (Jan 3, 2023)

erockg said:


> Meh.  Nope:  https://www.engadget.com/wisear-neural-earbuds-prototype-015323031.html?src=rss&guccounter=1


You see if you scroll down a bit more Jlab actually gonna try harder  with a $199 hybrid TWS. Lets see if they know what it really takes to jump up to $200 level or if they fall short.

Oh and the Nothing Ear boobs...





Well I guess that could be embarrassing so they made up another brand so the boob thing need not actually be associated with Nothing Ear lol!


----------



## erockg

jant71 said:


> You see if you scroll down a bit more Jlab actually gonna try harder  with a $199 hybrid TWS. Lets see if they know what it really takes to jump up to $200 level or if they fall short.
> 
> Oh and the Nothing Ear boobs...
> 
> ...


I just want to touch them.


----------



## Canabuc

dweaver said:


> I have to say I might be satisfied for a while... These WF-1000XM4 are a bit big in ear but with Spinfit are comfortable. The Sony hybrids are also comfortable but we're completely Ng loose, so am testing the SP nfits instead.
> 
> Sonically these are way better than I expected, I vastly prefer their do nd to the Linkbuds S. Just a lot more of everything in comparison, better bass, mids, treble, sound stage etc. Pretty much an upgrade in every way sonically. The Linkbuds have better ambient though, by quite a big margin. If they marry the best of both into the XM5 they will be a damn compelling package.


I think you like them as a low volume listener. Alot of  reports say they don't do well sonically at higher than 60% volume.


----------



## dweaver (Jan 3, 2023)

You might  be right on that! I rarely come close to 50% volume. I am probably listen at 30% when lower volume and 40% is my louder volume.


----------



## Intralaust

I've been rocking my Fiio LC-BT2 neckband with a pair of Fiio FH1s for a couple of years now, and they're been a real lifesaver for me. Yeah, they don't sound quite as good as some of the pricier offerings on the market, but they have a VERY long battery life, which is extremely helpful when you have ADHD and are constantly forgetting to charge your electronic devices.


----------



## chinmie

erockg said:


> I just want to touch them.



Luckily I was not sipping my coffee when i read your comment 🤣


----------



## Canabuc

chinmie said:


> Luckily I was not sipping my coffee when i read your comment 🤣


Do you insert them nipple first?


----------



## Canabuc

Too bad about Huawei hope there is a work around because even just with AAC I was impressed with dynamic range deep tight bass and crisp but not sibilant highs.
If I can get LDAC working o think they are a keeper otherwise will go for the Oppo.


----------



## SynaestheticA

Top 6 tws for 2022 which I'm guessing was written in 2020 
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
https://oldtimemusic.com/best-true-...b6404202340c19f559270aa8943a79f#comment-38215


----------



## alpha80 (Jan 4, 2023)

Apple AirPods Pro 1st gen and the Sony MDR-AS800BT, WF-1000XM4, WF-1000XM3, some AKG, Samsung, and Technics offerings show promise with IEM FR....and Apple AirPods Pro 2nd gen show some promise in terms of eventually getting to an AMBEO 11.1 standard which would be fairly dope.

But let's be real .... Bluetooth is still only offering compressed sub-1411kbps quality ....and thats's fine for someone listening to 192kbps MP3's, but not really very good yet compared to real quality digital audio.


----------



## Canabuc

alpha80 said:


> Apple AirPods Pro 1st gen and some AKG, Sony, Samsung, and Technics offerings show promise with IEM FR....and Apple AirPods Pro 2nd gen show some promise in terms of eventually getting to an AMBEO 11.1 standard which would be fairly dope.
> 
> But let's be real .... Bluetooth is still only offering compressed sub-1411kbps quality ....and thats's fine for someone listening to 192kbps MP3's, but not really very good yet compared to real quality digital audio.


Agree to disagree.
Most of us can't hear difference above the higher bit rate codecs and hi res music.

To date the biggest issue was substandard drivers and tuning compared to iem counterparts.
Most of this was due to size constraints. You need to have battery and electronics and still fit in an ear.

As components are shrinking and battery tech getting better we are seeing emergency of multi driver  TWS with high res Codecs and quality is getting closer. 
Now would I compare them to a 200$ or more IEM no.
But the Aria level and lower I would say we have gotten there.


----------



## helmutcheese (Jan 3, 2023)

Since BT without the new aptX Lossless is mathematical 80% of CD quality how can sub 192k mp3 be suffice?

CD Rips of Flac or even 320k mp3 over SBC or aptX (both 16/44.1 so a match for the ripped files) is good enough for most to be out and about with the added convenience of no wire dangling out their pocket getting caught on things.

That is why we have so called "Hi-Res" Codecs, to try and get back some of the lost quality even though it will not be the same as listening to the Hi-Res files via wired ear/headphones or a an actual CD.


----------



## cresny

Canabuc said:


> Too bad about Huawei hope there is a work around because even just with AAC I was impressed with dynamic range deep tight bass and crisp but not sibilant highs.
> If I can get LDAC working o think they are a keeper otherwise will go for the Oppo.


Sounds like you have the American Playstore app. You need to sideload the Chinese one to toggle on high res audio.


----------



## Canabuc

cresny said:


> Sounds like you have the American Playstore app. You need to sideload the Chinese one to toggle on high res audio.


No have Canadian app downloaded directly from Huawei not the play store. It is an android 13 thing not making it work. Found a work around to get LDAC using a phone on android 12 though the option is still not in the app settings but is in the blue tooth connection settings and developer settings now .

And wow these sound amazing. Wider soundstage and better imaging than the techniques with deep clean bass and great mids and highs


----------



## subguy812

dweaver said:


> I have to say I might be satisfied for a while... These WF-1000XM4 are a bit big in ear but with Spinfit are comfortable. The Sony hybrids are also comfortable but we're completely Ng loose, so am testing the SP nfits instead.
> 
> Sonically these are way better than I expected, I vastly prefer their do nd to the Linkbuds S. Just a lot more of everything in comparison, better bass, mids, treble, sound stage etc. Pretty much an upgrade in every way sonically. The Linkbuds have better ambient though, by quite a big margin. If they marry the best of both into the XM5 they will be a damn compelling package.


XM4 is the only TWS or IEM(for that matter) I use eq for. I found a perfect setting, for my tastes that make them really good


----------



## Aevum

So the Freebuds Pro 2 are good ?


----------



## Hozay

C_Lindbergh said:


> Yees! Should se announcements very soon!


Hey just wanna ask where do you guyz read all the news about CES product launches? Any social medias or media websites?


----------



## chortya

Hozay said:


> Hey just wanna ask where do you guyz read all the news about CES product launches? Any social medias or media websites?


My go-to is Engadget or Verge but they tend to cover mainstream tech only. Looking forward to Sony anouncements.


----------



## cresny

Canabuc said:


> No have Canadian app downloaded directly from Huawei not the play store. It is an android 13 thing not making it work. Found a work around to get LDAC using a phone on android 12 though the option is still not in the app settings but is in the blue tooth connection settings and developer settings now .
> 
> And wow these sound amazing. Wider soundstage and better imaging than the techniques with deep clean bass and great mids and highs


I'm on a pixel 7 with Android 13. I did not get LDAC until I downloaded the app that allowed me to toggle it on.


----------



## Canabuc

Aevum said:


> So the Freebuds Pro 2 are good ?


The sound stage is really wide. There is great imaging. The bass texture and depth is great but not bloated at all. And unlike the originals the kids and highs still have great detail and shine.
The extra planar driver makes a real difference. The separation and imaging are great. 
I am using a free trial of Apple music and using it in lossless and with LDAC now working ( through a work around. App likely still needs a proper update) I can really hear the difference compared to the same song on YTM.  

Now I haven't had them long enough to discuss ANC or battery life. They are comfortable have QI charging multipoint and you have full control from either bud which I like.


----------



## Canabuc

cresny said:


> I'm on a pixel 7 with Android 13. I did not get LDAC until I downloaded the app that allowed me to toggle it on.


I have s22 ultra and I already had ai life app from the 1st gen model. I deleted and reinstalled the app from the Huawei site and it doesn't matter. The option is not in the app. Yet on my old now 10 on Android 10 it is there just fine with the same app. This was how I got it working. I turned it on in my note 10. Then on my s22 ultra in the blue tooth settings of the phone LDAC is now available on the bus and iv can turn it on it off but the option for HD audio is still not in the app.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Huawei/comments/wz7ti8/free_buds_pro2_cant_use_ldac/

https://consumer.huawei.com/en/comm...Solved-No-LDAC-on-Pixel-Phone/topicId_177547/


----------



## potix

Newly added to aptx lossless family:
https://item.jd.com/10067450598059.html#product-detail

and lhdc 5.0
https://www.gsmarena.com/oneplus_buds_pro_2_launch_in_china-news-57067.php

I'm not interested too much in any of these, but it's good to find new products supporting the new "lossless" codecs.


----------



## Hozay

chortya said:


> My go-to is Engadget or Verge but they tend to cover mainstream tech only. Looking forward to Sony anouncements.


Thx for sharing, just hoping there is one website that I won't miss any headphone launches by take a look of that one daily. I have other sites for other types of electronic products such as computer components, looking for something focus on headphones.


----------



## dweaver

wow its amazing how TWS evolve...

I bought the WF-1000XM4 and I am really enjoying their sound. But their ambient just sucks compared to the Linkbuds S and I am 99% sure I will have the same feeling about their phone call quality. The ambient mode of the GB2P, JBL Tune Free 2, are also better than them.  Comfort for all 3 of the TWS mentioned are also leaps and bounds ahead.

But the XM4 isolate so well I don't have to use ANC very much, so even using LDAC I am getting easily 6+ hours of use per session, it might be closer to 8 hours in actuality.

It does make me wonder what the XM5 will be like though... LOL


----------



## clerkpalmer

Ordered the Nura Pro on 12/28. In that time, I listed my AT's on ebay, sold them, shipped them and they are delivered to the new owner.  I have since emailed Nura with no response.  No shipping notification.  I'm not impressed.  I get the idea that it's a small company but not really acceptable for a $330 premium product.  I'd probably cancel but they won't respond to that either.


----------



## erockg

clerkpalmer said:


> Ordered the Nura Pro on 12/28. In that time, I listed my AT's on ebay, sold them, shipped them and they are delivered to the new owner.  I have since emailed Nura with no response.  No shipping notification.  I'm not impressed.  I get the idea that it's a small company but not really acceptable for a $330 premium product.  I'd probably cancel but they won't respond to that either.


Very odd.  They were quite responsive to me.  Probably shut down for holiday or something.  Who knows.


----------



## erockg

clerkpalmer said:


> Ordered the Nura Pro on 12/28. In that time, I listed my AT's on ebay, sold them, shipped them and they are delivered to the new owner.  I have since emailed Nura with no response.  No shipping notification.  I'm not impressed.  I get the idea that it's a small company but not really acceptable for a $330 premium product.  I'd probably cancel but they won't respond to that either.





erockg said:


> Very odd.  They were quite responsive to me.  Probably shut down for holiday or something.  Who knows.


Guessing you emailed directly to this:  orders@nuraphone.com


----------



## clerkpalmer

erockg said:


> Guessing you emailed directly to this:  orders@nuraphone.com


Yeah. Mostly venting but I’m not buying the holidays excuse. For my job I’m always available for my clients.  It’s been a week. If your business is selling stuff in an Uber competitive industry, gotta get stuff out the door. The website didn’t indicated a shipping delay or back order. Ill Iive.


----------



## erockg

clerkpalmer said:


> Yeah. Mostly venting but I’m not buying the holidays excuse. For my job I’m always available for my clients.  It’s been a week. If your business is selling stuff in an Uber competitive industry, gotta get stuff out the door. The website didn’t indicated a shipping delay or back order. Ill Iive.


It's not an excuse, just a positive kind spin.  I work too much too and never miss emails.  Clearly, they suck.  If only you had done B&H... sigh...


----------



## clerkpalmer

erockg said:


> It's not an excuse, just a positive kind spin.  I work too much too and never miss emails.  Clearly, they suck.  If only you had done B&H... sigh...


Agree. My cheap self took over. Always a bad decision. Total difference was about $20 assuming I bought the transmitter.


----------



## SynaestheticA

Literally walking out the door for a 3 day cruise and look what arrives!






Load me up with questions, plan to do nothing but lie on a deck and listen to music for 3 days. 

Thanks to the Addicted to Audio team in Aus for getting these out in time!!!!


----------



## clerkpalmer

SynaestheticA said:


> Literally walking out the door for a 3 day cruise and look what arrives!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Nice. Definitely will put these in the list to compare with the Nuras. When do they officially release?


----------



## erockg

clerkpalmer said:


> Nice. Definitely will put these in the list to compare with the Nuras. When do they officially release?


Audio46 has them up for presale.  Can't find a date, but the app is on the Apple App store for a few weeks now.  Read something this month for the US.


----------



## clerkpalmer

erockg said:


> Audio46 has them up for presale.  Can't find a date, but the app is on the Apple App store for a few weeks now.  Read something this month for the US.


Hmm. Might preorder. I’ll bet they sound amazing.


----------



## Hozay

SynaestheticA said:


> Literally walking out the door for a 3 day cruise and look what arrives!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


What is the UK distributor doing! I literally refresh their website 500 times a day, since 16th Dec.


----------



## dweaver

OK, before I sell off some of my gear. Let's do a few comparisons. Prices are based on Canadian MSRP

Galaxy Buds 2 Pro $289

Comfort and stability - these are the most comfortable of the roundup but come in 3rd for stability as they feel loose at times. They are good for jogging and my gym workouts.
Ambient Mode with no music can easily hear sounds around me and can hear sounds around me with music playing at 25-30% volume. The volume level is 3rd best and naturalness is pretty much a tie for 2nd with the JBL.
ANC - These are a close 3rd to the Linkbuds S being just slightly behind.
Battery Life - These are in 4th for battery life being ahead of the Linkbuds S by about 1 hour, but were also doing all that using the 24bit scalable codec from Samsung is not so terrible.
General enjoyment of music - These are easily the most enjoyable TWS straight out of the box for me personally. Which is good as they are the least adjustable in regard to sound. But since they are not easily tweaked from the app you have to like the default tuning or be lucky enough to enjoy one of the limited presets.


Linkbuds S $299

Comfort and Stability - these are the 3rd most comfortable just slightly behind the JBL and 2nd most stable. I have used these for jogging, gym, walking all with no issue or fussing.
Ambient mode with no music is very clear and natural, not quite like having nothing in my ear but close. With music sounds are still very audible. This is the best Ambient mode based on natural sound and loudness.
ANC - i was surprised at how well the Linkbuds S did compared to XM4 they wer only just ever so slightly behind them.
Battery life - these are not very good for battery life coming in last of all the models in the roundup. I found I had to turn off most of their features to get any reasonable life out of them.
General enjoyment of music - I was absolutely believed I would like these more than the XM4 when I bought the S and was wrong in this regard. The biggest challenge with these is something missing in the bass and midrange, they just sound to safe even though they are more balanced than the XM4. In terms of musical enjoyment, I would say they come in last out of this round up.


JBL Live Free 2 $199

Comfort and stability - these are the 2nd most comfortable and 4th for stability as they feel a bit looser than the GB2P but only by a hair, so are OK for jogging and gym with just a bit of adjusting.
Ambient mode with no music is actually louder than Linkbuds S but not quite as natural sounding. With music playing it is very close to the sound clarity as the Linkbuds S with a similar if not slightly louder volume. This is not quite as natural sounding as the Linkbuds S but is slightly louder so the the 2nd loudest and 2nd for natural sounding.
ANC, these come in 4th for ANC in this roundup but are still more than adequate for most cases in this regard.
Battery life - These only have AAC/SBC so achieve fairly decent battery life by not using higher energy codecs.
General enjoyment of music - While I do like these, I find the bass is just a bit to boomy, but the treble is sparkly and alive and the mids while slightly more recessed do come across nicely. They edge the Linkbuds S out but only by a bit and its simply because they don't play it safe like the S does.


Liberty 3 Pro $199

Comfort and stability - these are 4th for comfort and 2nd for stability. But even in 4th for comfort they still are pretty comfortable. These buds stick out more than any of the other buds though.
Ambient mode no music is clear but a bit higher pitched. With music playing you can clearly still hear noise but it's a bit to clear and high pitched really intruding on the music. If awareness is the highest priority, these are great but if you want awareness WHILE enjoying your music these are 4th.
ANC - This is the only buds out of the group that I could hear something when I enabled ANC with no music. Not much, but there was a definite level of anti-sound present. Not a full hiss but noticeable. The amount of noise blocked was about the same as the JBL but given the noise I would place them last for ANC.
Battery life - These are a mixed bag, they drop pretty fast when using LDAC but work pretty well with AAC.
General enjoyment of music - The bass is the 2nd best out of the roundup of devices but the treble timbre is just a bit off making these fall behind the XM4 and GB2P.

WF-1000XM4 $400

Comfort and stability - these are last for comfort and stability. The larger size puts pressure on my ears and they start to loosed in my ears within 15 minutes of wearing them. I am unsure I will use these when jogging or the gym but think they will be OK for walking.
Ambient mode is quiet with no music but words are eligible. With music playing you can barely hear any outside sound.  These are easily the worst for ambient if this feature is important.
ANC - the passive noise cancelling of these is actually so high I only use the ANC occasionally but when I do it is the highest of all group but only just slightly better than the Linkbuds S and then GB2P.
Battery Life - I was darn surprised today. I disabled the Speak to Chat feature which balanced out the battery consumption between left and right. In testing today, I took them out of the charger at 10 AM and it is now 10PM and in those 12 hours the TWS dropped down to around 15%. I did not have music playing all of that time but these easily lasted my entire work day and evening. So were impressive.
General enjoyment of music - out of the box these are enjoyable but a bit too dark. Fortunately, these respond really well to the apps EQ and once EQ'd they easily tie the GB2P but for vastly different reasons. The GB2P is the best balanced but dynamic sounding model. The XM4 on the other hand is bolder with the best bass, with nice forward mids that have a bit of edge to them, and treble that is not quite as detailed or sparkly as the GB2P or even JBL, but still has enough detail and sparkle to fit to the rest of the frequencies. I was also surprised at the amount of 3D qualities I could hear. It just presents a bigger type of sound that is fun and engaging, not for the purist but I like it.
I listened to mostly Patricia Barber with a bit of Pink Floyd while testing around the past couple of hours, while typing this post up. If I have time I may do some A/B/C/D/E comparisons on a couple of songs but only if I have time.


----------



## Canabuc

dweaver said:


> OK, before I sell off some of my gear. Let's do a few comparisons. Prices are based on Canadian MSRP
> 
> Galaxy Buds 2 Pro $289
> 
> ...


Most of those are selling for at least 30 to 40% cheaper right now.


----------



## dweaver

Yup, just wanted to base on MSRP as that is where they all started. I only paid MSRP on the Linkbuds S and GB2P. Everything else was bought in sale.


----------



## SynaestheticA

Hozay said:


> What is the UK distributor doing! I literally refresh their website 500 times a day, since 16th Dec.


What genre do you listen too? The FW5 arrived same morning and comparing the two. Need waaaay more time with both to find a favourite. Give me some tracks and I can give you my impressions


----------



## Peddler

I have an embarrassing amount of bluetooth headphones in my collection but out of all of them though so like the Sony WF1000XM4'the most. Most comfortable, best anc, best sound quality - even with no eq selected and best features. I think my Magaosi K3 Pro/iBasso CF01 combo has slightly better sound quality, they're not as comfortable and don't have ANC. 

I also have the WH1000XM2 full size headphones and love them too. I really like the Sony 'sound'.


----------



## Juturna

Actually got a pair of Astell & Kern UW100 for $130, gonna test them out for a bit. Will return with some impressions. First impression is that they sound very balanced. Almost to a fault!


----------



## clerkpalmer (Jan 5, 2023)

erockg said:


> Audio46 has them up for presale.  Can't find a date, but the app is on the Apple App store for a few weeks now.  Read something this month for the US.


Audio46's website says "mid February release".  Argh.  I could be dead by then.  And even though there is a preorder link, it doesn't seem to work on my iphone or computer browser.

Edit- preorder link works.  Interesting that when introduced, price was $329.  Now it's $349.  Damn inflation.


----------



## erockg

clerkpalmer said:


> Audio46's website says "mid February release".  Argh.  I could be dead by then.  And even though there is a preorder link, it doesn't seem to work on my iphone or computer browser.
> 
> Edit- preorder link works.  Interesting that when introduced, price was $329.  Now it's $349.  Damn inflation.


Yeah, I saw that price.  They charged more for the ZE3000 and I had to have them price match.  Wonder if that's just a placeholder...


----------



## erockg

Juturna said:


> Actually got a pair of Astell & Kern UW100 for $130, gonna test them out for a bit. Will return with some impressions. First impression is that they sound very balanced. Almost to a fault!


Man, I wish I could find them here in the US again.  Great price!


----------



## scubaphish

clerkpalmer said:


> This place is selling new in box APP2 for $135 today. That’s like offering a crackhead 50 percent off… ordered.
> 
> https://www.discountstoresavings.com/


Have your APP2 come in? Is this place legit? Thanks


----------



## clerkpalmer

scubaphish said:


> Have your APP2 come in? Is this place legit? Thanks


Got a shipping notice today.  Seems legit.


----------



## Canabuc

Anyone with experience with the liberty 4 from soundcore. They just became available in Canada.


----------



## Hozay

SynaestheticA said:


> What genre do you listen too? The FW5 arrived same morning and comparing the two. Need waaaay more time with both to find a favourite. Give me some tracks and I can give you my impressions


Thx but just enjoy your new toys! I listen to everything including symphony, anime, movies, pop, video games...... I am just not so happy about UK distributor's procrastination. I do look forward to your review/comments when you done making your choice of keeping which TWS.


----------



## C_Lindbergh

Barely any TWS news at CES I'm afraid... Haven't seen anything besides the new JBls (with screen on case).


----------



## jant71




----------



## C_Lindbergh (Jan 5, 2023)

jant71 said:


>


Yes finally!!

What stream is that? And is there any more info?


----------



## jant71

C_Lindbergh said:


> Yes finally!!
> 
> What stream is that? And is there any more info?



Phileweb. Just an announcement of the announcement at CES. Though we already know about the AZ80 and AZ60M2. At least on here we know.


----------



## Canabuc

I'm in!


----------



## clerkpalmer

erockg said:


> Guessing you emailed directly to this:  orders@nuraphone.com


2 more days. No shipping notice. No response to 2 emails.


----------



## erockg

clerkpalmer said:


> 2 more days. No shipping notice. No response to 2 emails.


I'll ping them via a reply to my Kickstarter messages with them if you want?  When did you place the order?


----------



## clerkpalmer

erockg said:


> I'll ping them via a reply to my Kickstarter messages with them if you want?  When did you place the order?


That’s very nice of you. 12/28. Not really necessary. I was more posting it for the benefit of others.  The website says ships in 1 to 2 business days and 4 to 5 business days to respond to email.


----------



## nekonhime

clerkpalmer said:


> That’s very nice of you. 12/28. Not really necessary. I was more posting it for the benefit of others.  The website says ships in 1 to 2 business days and 4 to 5 business days to respond to email.


You can try to call the CEO of the company but it also risk someone getting fired too


----------



## Juturna

Just got the Bose QC II's. My wallet is bleeding from the Nuratrue Pro, A&K UW100 and Bose QC II's in about a week. 

But yeah, I think I'm going to get the new Fokus Mystiques and then after that I need to take a little break from buying new earbuds, very much so. 

Will be posting my thoughts on the QC II's when I've used them more 

My first thought after 15 minutes of use is that they're VERY comfortable, and the noise cancelling is really damn good. 

I love how they've done that without having to have a deep fit in the ear canals. 
The sound is also good so far, haven't EQ'd them yet but the sound signature out of the box is... It's definitely slightly U-shaped but it's also the least offensive sound signature I've ever heard. It's basically... Soft? Which isn't my go-to usually, but it's really comfortable to listen to, don't think anyone would get ear fatigue from the sound anyway, no sibilance in sight.

I hope they do get updates to improve the call quality when they release the update with AptX and all that jazz later in the year.
Because even though call quality isn't the most important part of an earbud imo, it frustrates me to NO END when you buy a new set of super-advanced and expensive earbuds and then make a phone call and the other person can't hear you and don't want to talk unless you switch to the phone mic.


----------



## rp1972

Hi guys , since you are talking about wavelet maybe you can help me on a simple question , let's say I have a moondrop chu and I'm not completely happy , I can dowload the profile or choose it from the list if available BUT my question is  : do I choose the same IEM and I will get  probably a better sound becaus it's better tuned or I go for a different IEM and use it as a profile ?


----------



## SynaestheticA

nekonhime said:


> You can try to call the CEO of the company but it also risk someone getting fired too


I say call the president


----------



## potix

rp1972 said:


> Hi guys , since you are talking about wavelet maybe you can help me on a simple question , let's say I have a moondrop chu and I'm not completely happy , I can dowload the profile or choose it from the list if available BUT my question is  : do I choose the same IEM and I will get  probably a better sound becaus it's better tuned or I go for a different IEM and use it as a profile ?


You can go here
https://squig.link/?share=Harman_Adjusted_Target,Moondrop_Chu
and make your own profile with the equalizer feature


----------



## clerkpalmer

SynaestheticA said:


> I say call the president


The return will be punishment enough.


----------



## clerkpalmer

Juturna said:


> Just got the Bose QC II's. My wallet is bleeding from the Nuratrue Pro, A&K UW100 and Bose QC II's in about a week.
> 
> But yeah, I think I'm going to get the new Fokus Mystiques and then after that I need to take a little break from buying new earbuds, very much so.
> 
> ...


Soft is an interesting way to describe the Bose but I kind of like it.  You said "least offensive" which to me imparts the notion of being "boring" which I don't think they are.  They are energetic and fun sounding to my ears - quite the opposite of boring.  Really the perfect exercise headphone.


----------



## Juturna

clerkpalmer said:


> Soft is an interesting way to describe the Bose but I kind of like it.  You said "least offensive" which to me imparts the notion of being "boring" which I don't think they are.  They are energetic and fun sounding to my ears - quite the opposite of boring.  Really the perfect exercise headphone.


Oh yeah they're not boring at all. Maybe the word I should've used is "safe" rather than least offensive. It sounds really good imo!


----------



## jant71

So JBL isn't the only one who are doing the screen on the case thing. HP is as well...





Poly who used to be Plantronics now under Hewlett Packard. Voyager Free 60 and 60+ coming in March for $299 and $350.


----------



## Fudgebar

Not sure why everyone keeps wasting their money on hidden unicorns.......I have not YET come across a new set of TWS that has dethroned the KING and still heavyweight sound champ 2-3 years running now.  That is my trusty AKG N400 .    Altho I will say the Senheisser Momentums 3 came very very close.....but lost by a little tonality


----------



## jant71 (Jan 6, 2023)

Fudgebar said:


> Not sure why everyone keeps wasting their money on hidden unicorns.......I have not YET come across a new set of TWS that has dethroned the KING and still heavyweight sound champ 2-3 years running now.  That is my trusty AKG N400 .    Altho I will say the Senheisser Momentums 3 came very very close.....but lost by a little tonality


Maybe you are looking for some affirmation here  but plenty have had them and even at $50 being such a good deal they moved on to other stuff. Not the sound champ for many here. Maybe the best value but few are selling the EX, A&K, Noble and the like in favor of the N400. Those same people also pretty quickly moved on from the Senn as well. If you love it that is all that matters.


----------



## dweaver

Not sold on the whole touch screen on the charging case either... If I need to reach for the case, I might as well just reach for my phone...

It's like these companies feel the essential TWS can't get better, so they are searching for new ways to entice people to buy something new outside of the realm of just sound quality/ANC/Ambient. I can somewhat see this in the case of HP as TWS is NOT their area of expertise but am saddened when I see companies like JBL going this route. They are part of an umbrella of companies that should be able and willing to push the envelope of TWS development for sound quality, ANC/Ambient functionality, battery life improvements, etc.


----------



## jant71 (Jan 6, 2023)

dweaver said:


> Not sold on the whole touch screen on the charging case either... If I need to reach for the case, I might as well just reach for my phone...
> 
> It's like these companies feel the essential TWS can't get better, so they are searching for new ways to entice people to buy something new outside of the realm of just sound quality/ANC/Ambient. I can somewhat see this in the case of HP as TWS is NOT their area of expertise but am saddened when I see companies like JBL going this route. They are part of an umbrella of companies that should be able and willing to push the envelope of TWS development for sound quality, ANC/Ambient functionality, battery life improvements, etc.


The JBL does work on some things other than the case...
Features of the JBL Tour PRO 2:

●      True adaptive noise canceling with customizable ANC and ambient sound

●      10mm dynamic drivers powered by legendary JBL PRO sound

●      Customizable sound experience with Personi-fi 2.0

●      Immersive JBL Spatial Sound

●      40 hours total music playback - 10 hours in the earbuds with a further 30 in the case

●      6-mic perfect calls with VoiceAware

●      Bluetooth 5.3, LE Audio compatible

●      Oval Tube design with multiple ear tip sizes for comfort, performance and the perfect seal

Says it has the voice aware so I'm assuming it does the auto pause and activate ambient and resume your music and ANC when done talking. The press blurb says it for the M2 headphones but not for the TWS but voice aware should work the same in both.


----------



## Fudgebar (Jan 6, 2023)

jant71 said:


> Maybe you are looking for some affirmation here  but plenty have had them and even at $50 being such a good deal they moved on to other stuff. Not the sound champ for many here. Maybe the best value but few are selling the EX, A&K, Noble and the like in favor of the N400. Those same people also pretty quickly moved on from the Senn as well. If you love it that is all that matters.


Im sure the Noble, (EX and A&K btw never heard of these 2)  are all small micro niche TWS companies....that are either charging north of $300 or dont even have available stock for the masses.   I was basically reffering to the AKG being the best sounding main stream TWS still to this day.......but I didnt say that originally so forgive me.....
I also think the new Sony XM4's are very overrated,  Their sound is muddy , they lack resolution and instrument separation when music scores get complex.


----------



## BooleanBones

Fudgebar said:


> Im sure the Noble, (EX and A&K btw never heard of these 2)


Bang and Olufsen (EX)/Astell & Kearns


----------



## clerkpalmer

Fudgebar said:


> Im sure the Noble, (EX and A&K btw never heard of these 2)  are all small micro niche TWS companies....that are either charging north of $300 or dont even have available stock for the masses.   I was basically reffering to the AKG being the best sounding main stream TWS still to this day.......but I didnt say that originally so forgive me.....
> I also think the new Sony XM4's are very overrated,  Their sound is muddy , they lack resolution and instrument separation when music scores get complex.


The N400 is several years old now.  They do sound nice but even when they were first released, they didn't get much buzz because they had software issues from the get go.  I wouldn't call the N400 mainstream by the way.  They were a hidden gem.  Sound wise, they can still compete but feature wise, the technology has long since passed them by.  But for $50, you could do a lot worse.


----------



## jant71 (Jan 6, 2023)

Fudgebar said:


> Im sure the Noble, (EX and A&K btw never heard of these 2)  are all small micro niche TWS companies....that are either charging north of $300 or dont even have available stock for the masses.   I was basically reffering to the AKG being the best sounding main stream TWS still to this day.......but I didnt say that originally so forgive me.....
> I also think the new Sony XM4's are very overrated,  Their sound is muddy , they lack resolution and instrument separation when music scores get complex.


But, , AKG is not mainstream. Only one TWS and might not be another as Samsung uses them to tune their TWS and there might not be another. A niche one-off really. For TWS they are not mainstream like Sony, JVC, Soundcore, JBL or a host of others that are into double digit models of TWS in all price points. They are smaller like Grado, A&K, Beyer, FiiO, B&W, Devialet, KEF type that have one or two TWS under thier belt.


----------



## nekonhime

Fudgebar said:


> Im sure the Noble, (EX and A&K btw never heard of these 2)  are all small micro niche TWS companies....that are either charging north of $300 or dont even have available stock for the masses.   I was basically reffering to the AKG being the best sounding main stream TWS still to this day.......but I didnt say that originally so forgive me.....
> I also think the new Sony XM4's are very overrated,  Their sound is muddy , they lack resolution and instrument separation when music scores get complex.


Xm4 sound nice when you eq them to your liking, but it lack detail sometime 
N400 indeed sound nice but I still use the xm4 more due to the anc
But if you want to talk about the 50$ gem then the kenwood ws a1 is the one and they are daily buds now


----------



## Fudgebar

got it thanks....yes Bang and Olufsen and also the BW P7 are supposed to be premium sounding buds but i can honestly say I havent tried them yet because of their gawdy price.....but i have read a few reviews on leadersboards that actually have both of these earbuds 3 or 4 slots down under the Senss TM3's  but again everyone has their own preferences......I will just say that I personally havent heard yet any buds sounding better then the AKG N400 yet.   Some of my personal favorites in my collection are my Earfun Pro 2, MW07 Go, Souncore Liberty Air 2 Pro, Fiil TXS, and the QYC 13  buds all for combo of value and sound or for convenience at the gym


----------



## jant71

nekonhime said:


> Xm4 sound nice when you eq them to your liking, but it lack detail sometime
> N400 indeed sound nice but I still use the xm4 more due to the anc
> But if you want to talk about the 50$ gem then the kenwood ws a1 is the one and they are daily buds now



I have used my Kenwood one time since I got my Glidic.


----------



## Fudgebar (Jan 6, 2023)

nekonhime said:


> Xm4 sound nice when you eq them to your liking, but it lack detail sometime
> N400 indeed sound nice but I still use the xm4 more due to the anc
> But if you want to talk about the 50$ gem then the kenwood ws a1 is the one and they are daily buds now


I guess to each their own......I tried every EQ combination to bring energy and texture to these buds (Sony XM4), including tweaking around different Wavelet profiles and settings,.,,,,I just dont think they are phyisically capable of detailing sound as good as the AKG and the Senns Momentum 3's.  Also no matter what tips I tried, they just grate inside my ears to become very uncomfortable after about an hour of wear.    However, I wouldnt have noticed how unresolving they were until I did alot of back and forth A/B testing between buds on different songs.....i believe this is truly critical to absolutely benchmark your earbuds.......otherwise you get accustomed to certain sound profiles....even if inferior


----------



## erockg (Jan 6, 2023)

Fudgebar said:


> Im sure the Noble, (EX and A&K btw never heard of these 2)  are all small micro niche TWS companies....that are either charging north of $300 or dont even have available stock for the masses.   I was basically reffering to the AKG being the best sounding main stream TWS still to this day.......but I didnt say that originally so forgive me.....
> I also think the new Sony XM4's are very overrated,  Their sound is muddy , they lack resolution and instrument separation when music scores get complex.





BooleanBones said:


> Bang and Olufsen (EX)/Astell & Kearns


Far from niche. 

AKG N400 are great - I own them.  But the EX and Fokus Pro imo, blow them up.  Highly recommend them both.  Noble is oos because the Mystique is coming and they sold out of the Fokus Pro due to demand.  EX are everywhere.  Have all three.  My AKG are sitting in a desk drawer at the office, unloved   A&K were wonderful, but they stopped production due to difficulties getting parts during the pandemic.  Bummer.  Most, if not all of these buds can be had for less than 300 if you know when to look for sales.  Never paid over 3 bills for any of them.

EDIT:  I will pay over three for the Mystique if Jim changes that preorder button on his site to BUY NOW!


----------



## nekonhime

jant71 said:


> I have used my Kenwood one time since I got my Glidic.


Which one is it? I saw the 5000, 5100, 6000


Fudgebar said:


> I guess to each their own......I tried every EQ combination to bring energy and texture to these buds (Sony XM4), including tweaking around different Wavelet profiles and settings,.,,,,I just dont think they are phyisically capable of detailing sound as good as the AKG and the Senns Momentum 3's.  Also no matter what tips I tried, they just grate inside my ears to become very uncomfortable after about an hour of wear.    However, I wouldnt have noticed how unresolving they were until I did alot of back and forth A/B testing between buds on different songs.....i believe this is truly critical to absolutely benchmark your earbuds.......otherwise you get accustomed to certain sound profiles....even if inferior


I mean, people have their own sound profile anyway so it is still depend and no absolute answer for which sound profile is the best


----------



## Fudgebar

erockg said:


> Far from niche.
> 
> AKG N400 are great - I own them.  But the EX and Fokus Pro imo, blow them up.  Highly recommend them both.  Noble is oos because the Mystique is coming and they sold out of the Fokus Pro due to demand.  EX are everywhere.  Have all three.  My AKG are sitting in a desk drawer at the office, unloved   A&K were wonderful, but they stopped production due to difficulties getting parts during the pandemic.  Bummer.  Most, if not all of these buds can be had for less than 300 if you know when to look for sales.  Never paid over 3 bills for any of them.
> 
> EDIT:  I will pay over three for the Mystique if Jim changes that preorder button on his site to BUY NOW!


I will respect this as I have heard good things about both.......but I also heard that the Sony XM4s were the best TWS on many websites as well but was completely underwhelmed by their sound.....well not completely.....but not worth the premium IMO.         Between the Focu Pro and the B&O which has a more audiophile sound signature?
I like tight punchy articulate base (not cheap bloaty/flappy base)
I lean toward separation and details of instruments that can breathe and sound layered and not muddled together when arrangements get busy
I would also like brighter, energetic sound that has resolution to music
With the XM4's it was like viewing a photoshop image where someone added a +3 Blur.  The music sounded veiled


----------



## dweaver

jant71 said:


> The JBL does work on some things other than the case...
> Features of the JBL Tour PRO 2:
> 
> ●      True adaptive noise canceling with customizable ANC and ambient sound
> ...


That is true! . OK maybe they are not quitting in the TWS development, just expanding it . Just not sure why anyone would want or need a touch panel on the case... BUt then again I am sure someone said why the heck does someone need a touch screen on their phone and now I am using a "phone" that is more powerful and, in many ways, MORE useful that the computer I work on every day.... So, who the heck knows!


----------



## dweaver

Fudgebar said:


> I will respect this as I have heard good things about both.......but I also heard that the Sony XM4s were the best TWS on many websites as well but was completely underwhelmed by their sound.....well not completely.....but not worth the premium IMO.         Between the Focu Pro and the B&O which has a more audiophile sound signature?
> I like tight punchy articulate base (not cheap bloaty/flappy base)
> I lean toward separation and details of instruments that can breathe and sound layered and not muddled together when arrangements get busy
> I would also like brighter, energetic sound that has resolution to music
> With the XM4's it was like viewing a photoshop image where someone added a +3 Blur.  The music sounded veiled


I suspected the XM4 would be EXACTLY as you described and avoided buying them for 2 years. I finally bought them because I just needed to KNOW whether I was right in my suspicion. Out of the box they were pretty much what you said too...

But I am amazed at how well they sound after tweaking with the Sony app EQ. I am actually enjoying the heck out of them! They are not as balanced as my Galaxy Buds 2 Pro but they are just as enjoyable albeit for different reasons. Having said that I did wait 2 years and for them to be on sale for $250CAD versus $400... and do not regret that decision... Meanwhile I did pay full MSRP on the Linkbuds S and GB2P and do regret both those decisions... But way more so on the Linkbuds S... The S just lacks detail making them just feel safe, add onto that the fact they were on sale at Christmas for $169 versus the $299 I paid, and I am just sad... The GB2P on the other hand sound VERY good to me and I like them a lot, but I could have saved $60 if I had waited... LOL

I am really going to work hard on NOT paying MSRP this year... Such a waste...


----------



## erockg

Fudgebar said:


> I will respect this as I have heard good things about both.......but I also heard that the Sony XM4s were the best TWS on many websites as well but was completely underwhelmed by their sound.....well not completely.....but not worth the premium IMO.         Between the Focu Pro and the B&O which has a more audiophile sound signature?
> I like tight punchy articulate base (not cheap bloaty/flappy base)
> I lean toward separation and details of instruments that can breathe and sound layered and not muddled together when arrangements get busy
> I would also like brighter, energetic sound that has resolution to music
> With the XM4's it was like viewing a photoshop image where someone added a +3 Blur.  The music sounded veiled


Nope, XM4s can't compare to the the higher end buds I'm talking about.  Google isn't your friend   The XM4 are okay for ANC, but I didn't love the sound signature either.  

Fokus Pro are OOP, and no one knows if they'll be another run.  You might be able to find them out there brand new on a few sites - Audio46 and others.  As mentioned, the Fokus Mystique are the new ones by Noble.  Coming soon.  You can find info about them on Nobleaudio.com.  

My favorites for sound are the Fokus Pro, B&O EX and most recently, the Nuratrue Pro.  I listen to mostly rock, hard rock, metal and movie soundtracks.  

If you want an Audiophile sound signature, you might be better off with a great IEM with a TWS adapter or some decent cans.  I can say the NFP are great, but not what an IEM brings... yet.

Others here can chime in I'm sure.  Some may even disagree.  I can't really tell you which out of my favorites are perfect for YOU.  You'd have to listen to them for yourself.  The later two on my list you can get from Amazon and return if you don't like them.  I'd do that.  Easy.


----------



## FYLegend

dweaver said:


> I suspected the XM4 would be EXACTLY as you described and avoided buying them for 2 years. I finally bought them because I just needed to KNOW whether I was right in my suspicion. Out of the box they were pretty much what you said too...
> 
> But I am amazed at how well they sound after tweaking with the Sony app EQ. I am actually enjoying the heck out of them! They are not as balanced as my Galaxy Buds 2 Pro but they are just as enjoyable albeit for different reasons. Having said that I did wait 2 years and for them to be on sale for $250CAD versus $400... and do not regret that decision... Meanwhile I did pay full MSRP on the Linkbuds S and GB2P and do regret both those decisions... But way more so on the Linkbuds S... The S just lacks detail making them just feel safe, add onto that the fact they were on sale at Christmas for $169 versus the $299 I paid, and I am just sad... The GB2P on the other hand sound VERY good to me and I like them a lot, but I could have saved $60 if I had waited... LOL
> 
> I am really going to work hard on NOT paying MSRP this year... Such a waste...



I've been using Linkbuds S as my daily driver and I'm guessing they don't push EQ around as well as the XM4s? I was able to get a decent tuning but the treble still has thin/papery texture and borders on clipping. I believe part of the issue is based on ANC environments - if you happen to be in a certain type of noisy environment the ANC and treble peak from music will interfere with one another. It's not an obvious distortion that ruins the sound but I think it is what is sometimes described as "parasitic" distortion. I have experienced something similar with the TaoTronics SoundLiberty 94 when I change the internal EQ using AirReps 156X app or using the wavelet EQ, which makes me wonder if both products have this tuning to "play it safe" and reduce the chances of clipping.

My biggest gripe is that sidetone can't be turned off during calls, so you're left with a half-baked transparency mode during calls even if ANC is turned on. Some prefer it on and others prefer it off so it would have been nice if there was an option to turn it on or off, but I also suspect Sony is trying to comply to some "safety regulation" somewhere. Reminds me of Xperia phones having low output voltages in their headphone jack outputs; some users thought that's just how the onboard Qualcomm DAC sounded but others have speculated it is because Sony is sucking up to some EU regulation (which oddly no other brand really follows anyways). 

I find the A40 great for the price but have a few reservations about recommending it. Firstly there are some connectivity issues reported in certain devices - I have not experienced this but my friend has the ASUS ROG phone and said the A40 was practically unusuable (he tried 2 units so it probably wasn't defective).  They sound quite open and crisp, but only because there is a peak around 7.5kHz. In most tracks this sounds well but sometimes there's an unnatural airiness to the sound. In other situations they sound rather dull, perhaps even more so than the Linkbuds S which at least has some warmth and bass punch. EQ does not work that well for the low frequencies as you can barely bring the bass up. The Liberty 3 Pro has the opposite issue where the the sub-bass remains fat. Wavelet works terribly for L3P resulting in clipping in certain tracks unless you fiddle around with the limiter.

I actually prefer the transparency mode of the A40 as it feels more "open", it may just be down to the tuning and shallow fit but I also find it easier to have music playing while conversing than with the Linkbuds s (the deeper fit and more bassy sound mean you have to turn it way down). ANC is respectable definitely weaker than the Linkbuds S (which has the best ANC in my arsenal) and Liberty 3 Pro. The biggest issue with the ANC is when I'm on a bumpy bus ride the thud will cause the ANC output to distort. This is not as strong on other ANC TWS I have tried.


----------



## dweaver

I did do a bit of A/B between the XM4 and the Linkbuds. The S are more balanced, have better fit and comfort by a country mile, better ambient again by a country mile. My biggest issue is that they are just safe sounding whereas the XM4 has a bit of bite in the mids and much deeper detailed bass.  I just wish I could marry the two together into one TWS...


----------



## Fudgebar

to be completely fair with the Sony XM4's   there mid range and base have a certain fullness/smoothness to them......There main weakness is the upper range and treble lack detail.  Very evident in solo balads, guitar strings, pianos, etc.....isolated instruments lack the resolution that I find on the N400 AKG and the Sennheiser  Momentum 3.   But where they really let me down is how they fail to layer/seperate instruments when musical arrangements get complex.   if there is alot going on in a song.....things get muddy whereas in the other 2 earbuds they do a better job of keeping the instruments and vocals seperated and allow you to still hear the details distinctively


----------



## dweaver

Just read a wire cutter article discussing  the Poly Viayager Free 60+ and now I get what HP is aiming for... Below is an excerpt explaining them.


Poly Voyager Free 60+, March 2023, $350

As more people work in more than one location, swapping an office headset for portable earbuds can be appealing. But most true wireless earbuds aren’t really built with desktop or laptop use in mind, partly because their apps are available only for phones or tablets. The Poly Voyager Free 60+ is a true wireless earbuds and office headset hybrid with a unique solution for that problem: a smart charging case with app functionality built in. Simply swipe the screen to view the battery life, connect with Microsoft Teams, toggle active noise-cancelling modes, and more. If your computer lacks wireless capabilities, a USB-A or USB-C Bluetooth dongle is included and sits comfortably in the case, so it’s always with you. Or, if you want to listen to in-flight entertainment, the case also has an included analog cable and doubles as a Bluetooth transmitter. It does one better than most office headsets with adaptive ANC (automatically adjusting the level of noise cancellation based on the environment), and it's rated IP54, which means it’s splash and dust resistant.


----------



## helmutcheese




----------



## dweaver

First review I have read on the JBL. They gave it poor marks for sound.

https://www.techradar.com/reviews/jbl-tour-pro-2


----------



## Juturna

I have spent a little more time with the BOSE QC II's now and might not be ready for a full review, but I will say this so far:



Sound is surprisingly great. Not sure why I'm surprised, I really did enjoy the Soundsports Free back when they came out, but I've still had a slight bias against Bose for making some very weird-sounding/tuned earbuds back in the days before bluetooth earbuds were a thing.

Stock tuning is as I mentioned in a previous post... I'm not sure how to describe it, but I guess _smooth_ would be one way. It has a slight bass bump, but it's thankfully slightly lower than in many other mainstream earbuds, so it's not just bloated mid-bass. The mids don't really sound recessed or bumped up, the highs might be slightly boosted but honestly not by that much at all. 
So that's why I would call it smooth, I could never see me getting ear fatigue from this tuning, it's fun and energetic, engaging. But never harsh. 
But they're probably not for the people who value the most accurate representation of music ever, but I bet they could be EQ'd to being not that far off from that as well. 


They might not be the most detailed buds but I also have no complaints either, they're detailed enough for what they are. 
The soundstage is surprisingly quite large as well, especially to the left and right. It might not be the most holographic soundstage, but it's plenty wide. Separation seems decent as well, but not a specific standout.
Tried EQ-ing them in Wavelet today and they sound even better now too, so I can't complain sound-wise. I thought I would love the ANC but think the sound was "meh", but no, it's honestly very good, probably Top 5-best I've heard. 


ANC is the best I've heard in an earbud, which isn't surprising either honestly. I don't really like the XM4's that might be the closest competitor, because I feel like the ANC is worse than people give it credit for, because it's a lot less impressive if you use other tips than the stock hybrid foam tips.  
Yesterday I was vacuuming my floor and there were several times where I had to look and make sure that I hadn't accidentally turned the vacuum off because I just couldn't hear a damn thing even though I only had the music volume at like 55%.


Transparency Mode is honestly really good as well, I was extremely surprised over how natural it sounds and how much I actually heard. Many earbuds that I've used I honestly don't hear much while on transparency (Nuratrue Pro, Liberty 3 Pro) so I kinda have to pretend that I hear everything people say when I'm paying for groceries or something and get a question from the cashier. But here there's nothing like that, I can hear pretty much as well as I would otherwise.


I still dread the call quality I will get from these, but I haven't made a phone call yet since yesterday so I don't have anything to report there.


People are complaining about white noise when you're not listening to music, and in a way it is kinda weird because it sounds like you have ambient mode on almost when you're in a quiet environment, because you hear that slight static noise that the mics usually feed through to the earbuds when you're in a quiet environment on transparency mode. But to me it's somewhat of a non-issue, it's not that loud, and you can only hear it in completely silent environments when you're not playing music, and I don't use my ANC earbuds to drown out noise for non-music listening, so it doesn't bother me in the slightest. I'm almost more worried that they're gonna get rid of this by nerfing the ANC strength with following updates. 


I don't exactly love the Bose Music app that you use for the earbuds, the 3-band EQ isn't enough to change the sound as you would want it. I think 3-band EQ's are so weird honestly, because they seem to boost several of the frequencies at once, and I don't see the value when you want to boost sub-bass but lower mid-bass for an example, and just "increasing bass" just doesn't sound good enough, it just makes things bloated.
But I understand that the people who aren't that into sound would just get confused if there were more than "bass/mids/treble" basically. But I would instead say - do it like Soundcore, have a _substantial _number of EQ presets for plenty of different genres and have some EQ's created by professional musicians and producers/audio engineers etc, and then let the EQ be an advanced feature for the people who really want to get up in the nitty-gritty of the sound. 
Another idea would be to get to choose between a "basic EQ" that can be 3-5 bands, and then an "advanced eq" that could be 8-10 bands or so.


I'm surprised that the stock tips fit my ears pretty well, I usually go up a size with every earbud to get a proper fit, but here the standard M ones work really well. Maybe the L ones will be even better, I haven't even tried yet. The fit is fine for me though, they feel like they're snug and comfortable and sound good, and the ANC is very good, so if it's going to be even better with L tips I might collapse.


----------



## Juturna

dweaver said:


> I did do a bit of A/B between the XM4 and the Linkbuds. The S are more balanced, have better fit and comfort by a country mile, better ambient again by a country mile. My biggest issue is that they are just safe sounding whereas the XM4 has a bit of bite in the mids and much deeper detailed bass.  I just wish I could marry the two together into one TWS...



Let's hope for the XM5's that the Linkbuds S are a hint of where they want to go with their sound _signature_, but using better drivers and overall technical specs with the XM-series. So you can get a more balanced and detailed sound, absolutely less dark than the XM4's anyway. I would love to hear what Sony would do with a multi-driver TWS as well. 

I've mentioned it before in this thread, but Sony made some of my absolute favorite wired earbuds back in the day before TWS's (or even bluetooth earbuds) were a thing, but that really hasn't translated over to the wireless era, I think they're impressive if we're talking about the technology behind them, but for sound I rate all their TWS earbuds quite low amongst the flagship TWS's I've owned. 
I haven't had any extensive testing with the the Linkbuds S and only demoed it in-store however, and it absolutely sounded fine and had a better stock tuning than the XM3 and XM4s, but I wasn't necessarily impressed either. 

Their XM-series earbuds to me usually sound too dark, the bass is boosted in the wrong frequencies, the upper mids and lower treble aren't close to as detailed as I want, and the soundstage is really small and "in-your-head" which I usually don't prefer. 

They're not _bad, _but they just haven't really been anything for me, so far.


----------



## jant71

dweaver said:


> First review I have read on the JBL. They gave it poor marks for sound.
> 
> https://www.techradar.com/reviews/jbl-tour-pro-2


Like how they talk about tinny and brash and adjustments didn't work well but down in the bullet points they talk about people having trouble getting a seal. So you can just throw this out till it happens multiple times. Could be just as simple as they weren't able to get a good seal so the impression can be skewed. They may need some run in and perhaps they provided a bad choice for stock tips but a change can totally fix them. Another clue is the talk of a lean sound as that isn't really JBL. They tend to stay a little too much towards bassy so I am not totally convinced these are neutral. Jury is certainly still out. They are up on the site now... https://www.jbl.com/new-arrivals/TOUR-PRO-2.html $249 is too much though. Maybe $199? At least JBL does 50% off sales pretty often.


----------



## jant71

nekonhime said:


> Which one is it? I saw the 5000, 5100, 6000


The 5200.


----------



## nekonhime

jant71 said:


> The 5200.


Weird, it seem like the 5200 is the inferior version of the 9000 in the specs area except for the Bluetooth version


----------



## clerkpalmer

erockg said:


> Far from niche.
> 
> AKG N400 are great - I own them.  But the EX and Fokus Pro imo, blow them up.  Highly recommend them both.  Noble is oos because the Mystique is coming and they sold out of the Fokus Pro due to demand.  EX are everywhere.  Have all three.  My AKG are sitting in a desk drawer at the office, unloved   A&K were wonderful, but they stopped production due to difficulties getting parts during the pandemic.  Bummer.  Most, if not all of these buds can be had for less than 300 if you know when to look for sales.  Never paid over 3 bills for any of them.
> 
> EDIT:  I will pay over three for the Mystique if Jim changes that preorder button on his site to BUY NOW!


Man I need a new toy. Still zero news from Nura (it’s now been 11 days). Preordered the Final but no news. Sold off my ATs. I may have to drive to Best Buy today to get my fix. Anything likely to be on the shelf worth grabbing? I’m down to the Bose and that’s it. I did follow your wisdom and land a pair of px8 but they haven’t shipped yet.


----------



## jant71

nekonhime said:


> Weird, it seem like the 5200 is the inferior version of the 9000 in the specs area except for the Bluetooth version


As the older but still flagship hopefully it probably should be better but it is older. No way it is better ergonomically and size wise. ANC I am not sure but would always opt for the newer model on that. Doubt with the shape and fit and being newer the ANC is worse. ANC is better than the Kenwood which matters more since I don't have the 9000. I am not so big on first versions so figured I would try the 5200 and perhaps I would try the next flagship that would replace the 9000 and improve on it and work out any kinks.


----------



## nekonhime

jant71 said:


> As the older but still flagship hopefully it probably should be better but it is older. No way it is better ergonomically and size wise. ANC I am not sure but would always opt for the newer model on that. Doubt with the shape and fit and being newer the ANC is worse. ANC is better than the Kenwood which matters more since I don't have the 9000. I am not so big on first versions so figured I would try the 5200 and perhaps I would try the next flagship that would replace the 9000 and improve on it and work out any kinks.


Gosh, you are killing me with new curiosity. I might have to buy from amazon japan since they don't sell them in the US


----------



## dweaver

jant71 said:


> Like how they talk about tinny and brash and adjustments didn't work well but down in the bullet points they talk about people having trouble getting a seal. So you can just throw this out till it happens multiple times. Could be just as simple as they weren't able to get a good seal so the impression can be skewed. They may need some run in and perhaps they provided a bad choice for stock tips but a change can totally fix them. Another clue is the talk of a lean sound as that isn't really JBL. They tend to stay a little too much towards bassy so I am not totally convinced these are neutral. Jury is certainly still out. They are up on the site now... https://www.jbl.com/new-arrivals/TOUR-PRO-2.html $249 is too much though. Maybe $199? At least JBL does 50% off sales pretty often.


Agree that more reviews are needed and this one might be skewed. Also agree that price to high but they will go on sale.


----------



## jant71

nekonhime said:


> Gosh, you are killing me with new curiosity. I might have to buy from amazon japan since they don't sell them in the US


All I know, vs. the Kenwood, is the size and shape and fit are better for me. Iso better with the fit most likely helps with the ANC being better. Glidic handled being touched better and wind noise. Kenwood mics can squelch  when touched more and the ANC can be overwhelmed with certain quick noise and have pops or static bursts under certain situations. Not that often but never with the Glidic. I like the Glidic has the bass boost on board and the control scheme is more to my liking. buttons are more easy to work on the Glidic. Tuning is quite close. One issue I have with the Kenwood is that it just won't work with my Cowon. Only TWS that just won't connect to it. Even among japan TWS. AT, Aviot, all the JVC I have had never fail to connect. Limits my use somewhat. Odd thing it really does connect but within a minute they just stop playing anything. The size aspect is much improved...




...and can still fit longer tips than the Kenwood case can. Colder weather now so fit and ease of use with hats and hoodies is just better with the Glidic size and flusher fit. They don't sound better but close enough SBC vs. SBC or even aptX phone vs. Cowon with the EQ suite works well for the Glidic so I go back to the Kenwood and am not wowed nor does it put the Glidic in it's place or that type of thing. Hangs close enough to my ears so add it all up and the Kenwood has spent most of the time as of late in the drawer.


----------



## dweaver (Jan 7, 2023)

Juturna said:


> Let's hope for the XM5's that the Linkbuds S are a hint of where they want to go with their sound _signature_, but using better drivers and overall technical specs with the XM-series. So you can get a more balanced and detailed sound, absolutely less dark than the XM4's anyway. I would love to hear what Sony would do with a multi-driver TWS as well.
> 
> I've mentioned it before in this thread, but Sony made some of my absolute favorite wired earbuds back in the day before TWS's (or even bluetooth earbuds) were a thing, but that really hasn't translated over to the wireless era, I think they're impressive if we're talking about the technology behind them, but for sound I rate all their TWS earbuds quite low amongst the flagship TWS's I've owned.
> I haven't had any extensive testing with the the Linkbuds S and only demoed it in-store however, and it absolutely sounded fine and had a better stock tuning than the XM3 and XM4s, but I wasn't necessarily impressed either.
> ...


Great points all around! If the S had a better driver it would have been great as it's stock tuning is definitely a step in the right direction from the darkerness of the flagship models.

The other issues on the S is poor battery life and passive isolation. I appreciate the smaller size but think the tweaks in shape design like removing the bump at the bottom of the XM4 where the antenna thing is helped as much as the size reduction. So maybe the flagship can be some where in between the 2 models for size but the general shape of the S and taller to allow for at least the same battery life as the XM4. A slightly larger size might help with passive isolation.

I also have owned several of Sony's XBA series up to the XBA-Z5. The Z5 was amazing until the damn MMCX connector failed on one side reducing my $800 IEM to rubble. I have spent years trying to get another product with the same sound experience...


----------



## erockg

clerkpalmer said:


> Man I need a new toy. Still zero news from Nura (it’s now been 11 days). Preordered the Final but no news. Sold off my ATs. I may have to drive to Best Buy today to get my fix. Anything likely to be on the shelf worth grabbing? I’m down to the Bose and that’s it. I did follow your wisdom and land a pair of px8 but they haven’t shipped yet.


You're an animal.  I do the BB browse every now and then.  They just never have much anymore by me.


----------



## clerkpalmer

erockg said:


> You're an animal.  I do the BB browse every now and then.  They just never have much anymore b


I’m not expecting much - probably a waste of time. Thankfully my APP2 just arrived so I think I’m good for a day or two.


----------



## Bhelpoori

jant71 said:


> The JBL does work on some things other than the case...
> Features of the JBL Tour PRO 2:
> 
> ●      True adaptive noise canceling with customizable ANC and ambient sound
> ...


But just to be clear: the spec sheet does not support LE-Audio, only classic audio. 

Bluetooth 5.3 is just the radio layer which was enhanced to support Auracast over 5.2. You can do LE Audio over 5.2 but it is better over 5.3, and realistically where we are today, nobody is going to do LE Audio over 5.2.


----------



## helmutcheese (Jan 7, 2023)

BT 5.3 will be short lived IMO (like BT 5.1), they are talking about BT 5.4 (not going to BT 6.0) and the sooner the better as then at least we know if we buy that device it supports XYZ without anything missing.


----------



## Hozay

Any news about TWS cept that JBL one? Didnt see the expected new Technics/B&W/Noble buds.


----------



## Toom

Having tried the Ex and the Fokus Pro, it's the Senn MTW3 for the win, in my book.  They just have the complete package of sound and features.


----------



## helmutcheese (Jan 7, 2023)

^^ Senn MTW3 I would have kept these due to the SQ if they fitted me, many complained they are too small even the wings over the sports model.

Did the later FW (the one that added Multipoint) really fix all the issues listed inc the BT connection issues, and what about the charge case issue where they were still powered on.


----------



## futaki

moondrop kato: 9/10
moondrop starfield: 8.5/10

sony wf-1000xm4: 4.5/10
samsung buds2 pro: 5.5/10
airpods pro 2: 5/10
sennheiser mtw3: 4.5/10

these are most popular wireless models. I don't want to have a wired-wireless discussion. I just wanted to show the distance of wireless technology to the audiophile world.


----------



## clerkpalmer

clerkpalmer said:


> I’m not expecting much - probably a waste of time. Thankfully my APP2 just arrived so I think I’m good for a day or two.


Bad news. APP2 arrived with a missing screen and they sound terrible. Something is definitely wrong. It’s weird my iPhone recognizes and the serial number them but it says no coverage for warranty. Guessing I got scammed. They are definitely defective. They look and feel legit however. Maybe a knock off?


----------



## shooter

futaki said:


> moondrop kato: 9/10
> moondrop starfield: 8.5/10
> 
> sony wf-1000xm4: 4.5/10
> ...


Apart from fact that sony xm4 is nowhere near senns mtw3


----------



## Toom

futaki said:


> moondrop kato: 9/10
> moondrop starfield: 8.5/10
> 
> sony wf-1000xm4: 4.5/10
> ...


And you've compared the TWS units to wired IEMs in the gym and out in noisy public environments?


----------



## erockg

futaki said:


> moondrop kato: 9/10
> moondrop starfield: 8.5/10
> 
> sony wf-1000xm4: 4.5/10
> ...


Cool story.


----------



## erockg

clerkpalmer said:


> Bad news. APP2 arrived with a missing screen and they sound terrible. Something is definitely wrong. It’s weird my iPhone recognizes and the serial number them but it says no coverage for warranty. Guessing I got scammed. They are definitely defective. They look and feel legit however. Maybe a knock off?


That's awful, but I guess not surprise.  Chargeback?


----------



## erockg

clerkpalmer said:


> I’m not expecting much - probably a waste of time. Thankfully my APP2 just arrived so I think I’m good for a day or two.


Maybe try dabbling in a great IEM with an adapter.  I just picked up the Fostex TM2C for a great price to pair with my Thieaudio Clairvoyance.  Going to leave my SE846s on my Shure TW2.  Between this and my PX8 and H95s, I'm slowly selling off most of my TWS except for my favs.  Getting ready for the Mystique and a few others


----------



## futaki

Toom said:


> And you've compared the TWS units to wired IEMs in the gym and out in noisy public environments?


no. I used them all for a while and returned them.


----------



## dweaver

Well the Linkbuds sold today and I then saw the following on sale for $129CAD so picked them up since I have not tried at AT TWS for a while and thought  what the heck!


----------



## dweaver

So have now scratched the itch for JBL, LG, Audio Technica, and Sony...

The AT's are charging but did have a quick listen and they sounded pretty good. Was worried their size might be to big, they seemed a bit more comfy than the XM4 but definitely filled my ear. Will see if they bother me after trying them for a while... Starting to think the days of using bigger buds are numbered for me... Offer great passive isolation though...


----------



## erockg

dweaver said:


> Well the Linkbuds sold today and I then saw the following on sale for $129CAD so picked them up since I have not tried at AT TWS for a while and thought  what the heck!


----------



## dweaver (Jan 7, 2023)

LOL, been on a tear, sell a bud buy a bud, sell 2 buds, but a bud .

I have now tried all the brands or models aside from the expensive big boys so going stop for a while.

The Sony's  have surprised me the most sonically in a good way. Have to admit I am now waiting to see what they do with the XM5.

Ok what the hell is going on with these ATH? The app says I can switch the button mapping but it does nothing! If I say switch between left and right side it actually just changes the right side to use volume controls instead of track skipping. It's buggy as all get out!

Edit: NVM it is poorly done, but my issue was I needed to turn off the Google assistant feature and then I could assign right and left as I wished.

Like the 64 step volume, nice touch regarding refined control. Had to set the button speed to slow. Mist be getting old LOL.

The mids are nice but lack a bit of detail and emotion compared to the XM4. Bass is not as punchy or hard hitting as well. They are good but giving me any wow factor which strangely enough to XM4 did.

I need to articulate what I am hearing out of the XM4, in what songs and what parts.


----------



## subguy812

Making way for some new gear...selling my TWX9....begrudgingly because I love them


----------



## Fudgebar

shooter said:


> Apart from fact that sony xm4 is nowhere near senns mtw3


lol...I was thinking the same thing!   either bump up that Sennheiser score or lower that Sony XM4 score.....but having them rated the same SQ has me questioning this fellows ears


----------



## futaki

Fudgebar said:


> lol...I was thinking the same thing!   either bump up that Sennheiser score or lower that Sony XM4 score.....but having them rated the same SQ has me questioning this fellows ears



You are free to make your own scoring.


----------



## Toom

futaki said:


> You are free to make your own scoring.



Ok: 

Senn MTW3 - aceness out of 10


----------



## shooter

I like Senns very much I guess 8/10 in TWS world.


----------



## nekonhime

futaki said:


> You are free to make your own scoring.


Have they make a wireless version of Kato or starfield yet?


----------



## scubaphish

clerkpalmer said:


> Bad news. APP2 arrived with a missing screen and they sound terrible. Something is definitely wrong. It’s weird my iPhone recognizes and the serial number them but it says no coverage for warranty. Guessing I got scammed. They are definitely defective. They look and feel legit however. Maybe a knock off?


I was concerned about that but ordered anyway. Fwiw I reached out to cancel my order and said it was due to a bad review. Besides the fact that they were very reassuring that I’ll get a legit product else they’ll pay for the return…Blah blah blah…they really seem to want to make good with the person with the bad review. I suggest you reach out to them if you haven’t already.


----------



## dweaver

We all hear things differently. What sound awesome to one person might not be so good for another. That's why it's always good to state your preferences and then try to describe what is you hear when describing an headphone. One of my favorite reviewers used to be a guy by the name Tyll and he was a legend. But I just as often used his reviews to rule out some of his favorites because he and I had opposite tastes at times. But his reviews helped me because I knew what things I would like that he didn't and the opposite as well.


----------



## futaki (Jan 7, 2023)

shooter said:


> I like Senns very much I guess 8/10 in TWS world.


Besides being technically weak, they forgot to add some treble to it.

It's probably wrong to compare wired to wireless, but that's the point anyway, isn't it?


----------



## erockg

dweaver said:


> LOL, been on a tear, sell a bud buy a bud, sell 2 buds, but a bud .
> 
> I have now tried all the brands or models aside from the expensive big boys so going stop for a while.
> 
> ...


I think instead of racing for those sales, you should save the money, get something that is brand spanking new release!  I've had all you've had and they're looooong gone


----------



## erockg

scubaphish said:


> I was concerned about that but ordered anyway. Fwiw I reached out to cancel my order and said it was due to a bad review. Besides the fact that they were very reassuring that I’ll get a legit product else they’ll pay for the return…Blah blah blah…they really seem to want to make good with the person with the bad review. I suggest you reach out to them if you haven’t already.


So crazy.  I do know that some of the knock-off APP do register as seeming legit on iPhones.  Curious if the ANC is solid.  IF it is, it'll be on par with the Bose QCII if not slightly better in some situations.


----------



## erockg

nekonhime said:


> Have they make a wireless version of Kato or starfield yet?


Nah, those are all single driver Moondrop iEMs.  I've read the Alice can sound similar with some settings, but falls short in most other ways.  Sad.  Would love to try them though.  Maybe soon   Was really hoping Moondrop would release a killer TWS.  We continue to wait...


----------



## scubaphish

erockg said:


> So crazy.  I do know that some of the knock-off APP do register as seeming legit on iPhones.  Curious if the ANC is solid.  IF it is, it'll be on par with the Bose QCII if not slightly better in some situations.


I’ve read the same. And especially with the serial number checking out, but out of warranty. Wish me luck


----------



## nekonhime

erockg said:


> Nah, those are all single driver Moondrop iEMs.  I've read the Alice can sound similar with some settings, but falls short in most other ways.  Sad.  Would love to try them though.  Maybe soon   Was really hoping Moondrop would release a killer TWS.  We continue to wait...


That would be magnificent, I would like a planar tws if possible


----------



## dweaver

OK, so why am i liking these darn XM4's...

OK first off as mentioned by @Canabuc I am a low volume listener ranging from 25% to 50% 90% of the time. But while I listen at low volumes I like to hear emotion in vocals and feel sub-bass in orchestral sound tracks. I still want to "experience" the music. So my tastes lean towards products that allow me to hear/experience those things at lower volume or be able to EQ the product achieve my goal.

What I find is most products that don't come close to allowing me this sound I like out of the box rarely are able to be EQ'd to allow it. Which is why the WF-1000XM4 surprised me so much. Out of the box they were dark sounding just as I suspected they would be. But for some reason they have responded very well to the EQ I applied. I am starting to think the challenge is the quality of the driver(s) in the TWS. If they have a certain bass threshold for example and it is already maxed out at the default tuning, then EQing it louder generally starts to sound bad. The same can be said for the midrange and treble. So in the case of the XM4 it's like Sony tuned the IEM to have a big bass and scaled back the midrange and treble even though the driver could handle more in those areas. Then when I adjusted the EQ the drivers were fully able to express the added midrange and treble because they had the sonic headroom to reach those levels. Other TWS I have when I try to do this and this includes Sony's Linkbuds S just could not deliver the EQ changes fully.

One other thing that might be why I am enjoying the XM4 is the bands they chose for their EQ settings. Most EQ's are usually 5 band and have something like 100hz, 250hz, 1khz, 4-5khz, 10-12khz or the like. Sony is not really any different except is has 5 and chose 400hz, 1khz, 2.5khz, 6.3khz, and 16khz. I have set those to +3 +5 +7 +5 +3 or basically a reverse V. This places the most emphasis as the 2.5Khz region versus the 1Khz region which may be where the emotive notes of singers like Patricia Barber reside and it also seems to give guitars edge, cymbal crashes might be around that 6.3khz giving them added presence. I then added +1 to Clear Bass which just ever so gently increased the bass. I also think that +3 on the 400hz band also added warmth and more presence to bass guitars and double bass.

So what does all this add up in a song?

I used Patricia Barber's song Smash and secondarily the song Missing from the album called Smash.



When listening to Smash there are moments when I can hear the ache in her voice on the XM4 it's like she hits a note and holds it until it almost become unbearable and then she releases it, and you can breathe. Meanwhile pianos are playing, and you can feel the notes and lushness of the notes and double bass notes are full and vibrant with wonderful detail. As the song progresses it transitions into a lament of a guitar and drums that is vibrant and crashing that carries the rest of the song.

Most TWS just lose what I mentioned above. Some can carry some of the song but areas like the vocals just come off as flat or the double bass or piano lose their vibrancy, or the cymbals lose life.

Similarly, the song Missing has even more aching vocals and equal parts of piano and guitar that fill the air. The vocals in this song have almost a whispered quality with hints of a waver. The XM4 conveys all of this. But most of my TWS just lose the sense of intimacy ruining the experience of the song.


----------



## dweaver

Similarly, the song The Chain by Fleetwood Mac at the 3/4 point of the song has a bass guitar that kicks in and the XM4 captures the weight and authority of that guitar perfectly, while presenting all of the cymbal's leading up to it beautifully, later on it also captures the guitar well, all while presenting their vocals well. Again, it creates an experience versus just music playing in the background which is often how I feel about TWS.


----------



## Gilroypro

I am underwhelmed by the new TE-Z1PNK. They sound better due to the tuning than the TE-BD21J-LTD-PNK. My underwhelment comes to the volume. The TE-Z1PNK's volume is lower maybe due to LDAC? I don't know the reason but the TE-BD21J-LTD-PNK are way louder and I love that.


----------



## dweaver

Well, I think the AT's are going to be short lived. Not that they are bad or anything, just between their size and the fact I have a couple other TWS that sound similar I am going to flip them if possible. Glad I got them on sale, should not have to lose to much hopefully.

Find between them and Sony my ears are screaming for a break regarding being full all the time.

So since my ears were sore I decided to grab the JBL for a while and was playing with the settings and found if I turn OFF the EQ these actually are a lot more like the Sony sound. So going to play with them for the night. They sure are a heck of a lot more comfortable! Will do some new AB between them and the Sony. These might jump up in my little comparison I did a couple days ago for the music part anyway...


----------



## Fudgebar (Jan 7, 2023)

dweaver said:


> OK, so why am i liking these darn XM4's...
> 
> OK first off as mentioned by @Canabuc I am a low volume listener ranging from 25% to 50% 90% of the time. But while I listen at low volumes I like to hear emotion in vocals and feel sub-bass in orchestral sound tracks. I still want to "experience" the music. So my tastes lean towards products that allow me to hear/experience those things at lower volume or be able to EQ the product achieve my goal.
> 
> ...



my friend......i just bit and took the test.....Im sorry,  I ran these songs on my Senheisser Momentum 3 and the Sony XM4.    My recommendation is to get yourself a pair of the Senheisser Momentum TWS 3 buds.......The sonys fall apart when multiple instruments crash on top of each other as you recommended in these very songs.   Listen I like the Sony Buds.....but they are simply not as detailed as the Senns  and they are $100 more which I cannot recommend.    When I switch both earbuds back and forth between these songs the best analogy I can provide is with the Sonys its like I just got into my car on a cold winter morning and drove on the highway with a light snow and hail storm........then listening to the Senns was like I turned on my windshield wipers and said...damn,  ok  I can really see out my window now.


----------



## clerkpalmer

scubaphish said:


> I was concerned about that but ordered anyway. Fwiw I reached out to cancel my order and said it was due to a bad review. Besides the fact that they were very reassuring that I’ll get a legit product else they’ll pay for the return…Blah blah blah…they really seem to want to make good with the person with the bad review. I suggest you reach out to them if you haven’t already.


Yeah I have been in touch with them. They have been very responsive. They are sending me another pair which they said they will inspect beforehand. They do in fact want to make it right. It’s possible someone sold them counterfeits as well. I’ll report back but as of now they have offered to send another set that is guaranteed legit to me. Just annoying. Phone call with apple then to the Apple Store (probably got Covid in there it was so packed) and now I have to wait but I will say they are REALLY good fakes if they are indeed fake. Apple kept them at the store “for further testing”.


----------



## clerkpalmer

erockg said:


> So crazy.  I do know that some of the knock-off APP do register as seeming legit on iPhones.  Curious if the ANC is solid.  IF it is, it'll be on par with the Bose QCII if not slightly better in some situations.


Dude everything looks and feels real but you can tell something just isn’t right. The fact that the serial number says the warranty expired is a dead giveaway. They haven’t been out for a year so that’s not possible but I’ll give the counterfeiters credit.  The missing speaker screen. The distortion. The slightly different printing.


----------



## chinmie

clerkpalmer said:


> Bad news. APP2 arrived with a missing screen and they sound terrible. Something is definitely wrong. It’s weird my iPhone recognizes and the serial number them but it says no coverage for warranty. Guessing I got scammed. They are definitely defective. They look and feel legit however. Maybe a knock off?



I've seen online stores selling knock off APP2 and Airpods 3, with the "best quality" having app recognition and head tracking for the spatial audio feature. a friend of mine bought one and we tested it together, the spatial audio feature indeed works, but the sound? well, let's just say it doesn't sound near as the real thing..


----------



## dweaver (Jan 7, 2023)

Fudgebar said:


> my friend......i just bit and took the test.....Im sorry,  I ran these songs on my Senheisser Momentum 3 and the Sony XM4.    My recommendation is to get yourself a pair of the Senheisser Momentum TWS 3 buds.......The sonys fall apart when multiple instruments crash on top of each other as you recommended in these very songs.   Listen I like the Sony Buds.....but they are simply not as detailed as the Senns  and they are $100 more which I cannot recommend.    When I switch both earbuds back and forth between these songs the best analogy I can provide is with the Sonys its like I just got into my car on a cold winter morning and drove on the highway with a light snow and hail storm........then listening to the Senns was like I turned on my windshield wipers and said...damn,  ok  I can really see out my window now.


Just curious, did you use the EQ settings I mentioned and are you normally a low volume listener?

Questions aside, having own several Sennheiser products over the years including the original MTW which I gave a good review on years ago and the 400CX last year. So am familiar with the brand and their house sound. I have no doubt they will be cleaner sounding and probably more detailed etc. I am glad it's working for you.

So in you estimation the Senns had better vocal clarity with more sense of emotion? The double bass had more detail while have the same levelof weight and authority? Piano's were lush and weighty?

Pretty sure the cymbals would have had way more sizzle and airiness that the Sony so I just assume in that area you really preferred the Senns. I personally like and sometimes hate the Sennheiser sound when it comes to cymbals. It can be wonderful but for lots of Jazz I find it to strong and for the lack of better description, to my ears a bit tinny as compared to the Sony which I find more brassy.

My original MTW fell apart quickly and have not been able to bring my self to buy another Senn flagship TWS again. But I have been sorely tempted a couple of times.... LOL

BTW just because I am enjoying the XM4 doesn't mean I don't see flaws. They are not the most comfortable TWS I have and their ambient is less than stellar. I am just surprised I like them as much as I am. Honestly thought I would be flipping them because they just didn't work for me sonically. Only really bought them to scratch an itch while they were still on sale for $250CAD versus $400 which I refused to pay....

OH! And when I say not the most comfortable I had to stop using them and the AT's a couple hours ago and have switched to the JBL Live Free 2 and my ears have been thanking me ever since.

I am thinking because the JBL started with the EQ on our of the box and with the bass boost enabled by default no less I may have not tried them with it totally disabled, or maybe was having an off hearing day of did, because I am really enjoying them with the EQ turned off. Definitely need to spend some more time with them. Glad they have not sold yet. Might just end up keeping them...

OH BTW, one of the reasons I have been trying some of the gear I have bought lately is a quest for a more bass oriented TWS to complement my GB2P and Soundcore A40 both which are way more balanced sounding. The bass TWS is more my guilty pleasure LOL.


----------



## FranckZZZ

Most overrated headphones?


----------



## FranckZZZ

Most overrated headphones?


----------



## Fudgebar

dweaver said:


> Just curious, did you use the EQ settings I mentioned and are you normally a low volume listener?
> 
> Questions aside, having own several Sennheiser products over the years including the original MTW which I gave a good review on years ago and the 400CX last year. So am familiar with the brand and their house sound. I have no doubt they will be cleaner sounding and probably more detailed etc. I am glad it's working for you.
> 
> ...


Dweaver, not trying to rain down on your experience....as I do own the Sony XM4 too so we are in the same boat.  Im just trying to suggest you try the Senns 3,  there base is actually suprisingly more detailed and resolving then the Sony XM4.  In fact all thru the frequency range, the drivers are just more detailed.     And just so you dont think Im a Senn Fan boy,   these version 3 Senns are much better then the originals.  I actually owned the Sennheiser Momentum version 1 and found their drivers lacked bass, and didnt have very good dynamic range and detailed resolution.   I was on alot of forums actually telling people they were very overated and over priced.     But boy they really cleaned up their sound in these version 3 buds.  ( sorry I cant speak for the Momentum 2 as I have never tried them)
Also with all this said, as I mentioned a few posts back, I actually think my AKG N400 buds have even a little more energy and detail then the Momentum 3!  However, the rest of the features are dated on the AKG buds....something else to consider


----------



## dweaver

I will probably try the MTW3 at some point. Just haven't been able to get myself to spring the bigs bucks on them. I am sure they do sound good though .

Unlike the XM4 which really was thinking I would not like, I do expect I will like the Senns. Might be why I hesitate, maybe I am afraid I will be disappointed.


----------



## SynaestheticA

@dweaver   you would probably fall in love with the ZE8000, my first impression was that they sound like how people describe Sony but without any of the negatives. The warmth exists before music is played and everything just sounds so intimate. 

Also really good for lower volume, I want these to be louder tbh.


----------



## Fudgebar

that is why i buy from Amazon....easy return if u dont like.     Plus they are actually $100 cheaper then the Sony XM4   which to me, absolutely makes no sense.....but im glad they are!!!


----------



## Hozay

SynaestheticA said:


> @dweaver   you would probably fall in love with the ZE8000, my first impression was that they sound like how people describe Sony but without any of the negatives. The warmth exists before music is played and everything just sounds so intimate.
> 
> Also really good for lower volume, I want these to be louder tbh.


Did you test the battery life of ZE8000? On the website it says only last 5 hours


----------



## clerkpalmer (Jan 8, 2023)

chinmie said:


> I've seen online stores selling knock off APP2 and Airpods 3, with the "best quality" having app recognition and head tracking for the spatial audio feature. a friend of mine bought one and we tested it together, the spatial audio feature indeed works, but the sound? well, let's just say it doesn't sound near as the real thing..


Yeah the sound was waaay off. Not sure what the goal of these knock off is other than to just defraud people.


----------



## SynaestheticA (Jan 8, 2023)

Hozay said:


> Did you test the battery life of ZE8000? On the website it says only last 5 hours


Haven't had them in use for long enough to test battery. Only 2 hours at a time over the last few days. 20 minutes at max volume with 8k activated reduced battery by about 8%, don't know if that would be a consistent drop every 20 min but just what I paid attention to earlier. That would equate to 4.1 hours though. 

One thing though is that these won't be anybody's endgame, a fun addition to the high end mix but certainly not the end of the road.


----------



## Canabuc

dweaver said:


> OK, so why am i liking these darn XM4's...
> 
> OK first off as mentioned by @Canabuc I am a low volume listener ranging from 25% to 50% 90% of the time. But while I listen at low volumes I like to hear emotion in vocals and feel sub-bass in orchestral sound tracks. I still want to "experience" the music. So my tastes lean towards products that allow me to hear/experience those things at lower volume or be able to EQ the product achieve my goal.
> 
> ...



Consider the freebuds pro 2. They sound great at lower volume as both them and app2 vary EQ by volume etc


----------



## MaxwellDemon

Due to the fact I lost one of my TWX9's earpieces (😢), I have ordered a set of 1MORE EVO on discount. Still hoping I'll be able to find where I placed the TWX9 though...


----------



## subguy812

dweaver said:


> Just curious, did you use the EQ settings I mentioned and are you normally a low volume listener?
> 
> Questions aside, having own several Sennheiser products over the years including the original MTW which I gave a good review on years ago and the 400CX last year. So am familiar with the brand and their house sound. I have no doubt they will be cleaner sounding and probably more detailed etc. I am glad it's working for you.
> 
> ...


I have posted this a couple of times, but for a different perspective here are my EQ settings for the XM4 as well as the tips I have found that provide me the best sq and comfort.

I am going to try your settings as well!

Ear Tips  I can't remember who recommended the tips, I think it was @BooleanBones .

I found these settings as a recommendation and even tried to tweak them and have always gone back to these. To my ears, the settings appear to provide the best staging I have heard of all of the settings.

*
*


----------



## BobJS

I have the Bose QCII and love them.  Especially the ANC.  Any reason for me to try the Senn Momentum TWS 3?  My expectation is the bass will be muddier and highs will be missing.  Of course, the ANC won't be as good.

Tell me I'm wrong.


----------



## subguy812

BobJS said:


> I have the Bose QCII and love them.  Especially the ANC.  Any reason for me to try the Senn Momentum TWS 3?  My expectation is the bass will be muddier and highs will be missing.  Of course, the ANC won't be as good.
> 
> Tell me I'm wrong.


I was a huge Senn TWS fan for the first two models. At that point they couldn't be beat IMO. I bought the 3's and returned them within a week.  I could not get a good fit with any of the tips, wings or any combination of the above. Without a seal I couldn't comment on the sound quality. My brother swears by them. They also changed the app, they removed an an enhanced sound button which was excellent. I heard they added multi-point though.


----------



## jant71

Gilroypro said:


> I am underwhelmed by the new TE-Z1PNK. They sound better due to the tuning than the TE-BD21J-LTD-PNK. My underwhelment comes to the volume. The TE-Z1PNK's volume is lower maybe due to LDAC? I don't know the reason but the TE-BD21J-LTD-PNK are way louder and I love that.


You can force SBC or AAC and disable LDAC right? That should give you the answer if LDAC might have any effect.

Actually looking at the Amazon JP reviews the app seems messed up and there some issue with the buds some are having. Theses seem to be one of those that they released but they have to still fix via update. Not like we haven't seen this before. Maybe the volume is an issue they can fix?

Still if you want to put out a dynamic/planar dual driver powering it right is an important issue. Should be a big issue for TWS in general since they are an on the go form factor which means the real world with cars and buses and trains and wind and people which compete for volume. Nobody keeps a tws for long if it low volume makes it really unusable.


----------



## Canabuc

MaxwellDemon said:


> Due to the fact I lost one of my TWX9's earpieces (😢), I have ordered a set of 1MORE EVO on discount. Still hoping I'll be able to find where I placed the TWX9 though...


The EVO really intrigue me.
My hesitation getting them are the controls.

I am a fan of buds that have EQ, multi point. hi res codecs.

So far my technics have been the 1 TWS buds for over a year.
But I am always looking for seeing if I can find a better sound.

The Huawei are more detailed and wider soundstage but don't get as loud and I have had to do a work around to get LDAC working. Got them in sale for about 165$ us. Considering returning them since they don't offer much more than my Technics. The EVos are about 50$ cheaper on Amazon right now which if sounding as good could be justified owning both them and my AZ60.

Alternative is I wait and see if the next gen buds really offer more.
Seems 2022 was year of Hired, better ANC and the coming out of some Mukti driver TWS including the EVO.

2023 might add LE AC3 but surprisingly not much announced at CES.


----------



## shooter

futaki said:


> Besides being technically weak, they forgot to add some treble to it.
> 
> It's probably wrong to compare wired to wireless, but that's the point anyway, isn't it?


Well, if they forgot to add treble to MTW3, so what to say about Sony's then?


----------



## potix

dweaver said:


> One other thing that might be why I am enjoying the XM4 is the bands they chose for their EQ settings. Most EQ's are usually 5 band and have something like 100hz, 250hz, 1khz, 4-5khz, 10-12khz or the like. Sony is not really any different except is has 5 and chose 400hz, 1khz, 2.5khz, 6.3khz, and 16khz. I have set those to +3 +5 +7 +5 +3 or basically a reverse V. This places the most emphasis as the 2.5Khz region versus the 1Khz region which may be where the emotive notes of singers like Patricia Barber reside and it also seems to give guitars edge, cymbal crashes might be around that 6.3khz giving them added presence. I then added +1 to Clear Bass which just ever so gently increased the bass. I also think that +3 on the 400hz band also added warmth and more presence to bass guitars and double bass.


The reason why I kept these tws is their eq. Swapping stock tips they sound good at 50-60% volume, if someone needs more probably he is suffering from hear loss or he is going to. It's not an Harman target, I have a different house as I like a british (monitor like) sound, but you can easy eq them, as you wrote, because they are "flat". There are other performers out there which are technically more advanced (EX, mtw3 ecc...) but their eq have always something weird that makes them hard to be shaped to your taste. Indeed xm4 are definitely lacking resolution and detail, so if one found something that match better his/her house curve should buy it, but I would never buy any tws just because of its technicalities, I would spend hours and hours trying to eq them (as I did in the past). Or you can buy some BT adapter, I use utws5 when I am at home and the results are not comparable to any tws on the market at the moment.
Try azla crystal, they have wide bores, make the bass cleaner and boost the penultimate octave.


----------



## dweaver

potix said:


> The reason why I kept these tws is their eq. Swapping stock tips they sound good at 50-60% volume, if someone needs more probably he is suffering from hear loss or he is going to. It's not an Harman target, I have a different house as I like a british (monitor like) sound, but you can easy eq them, as you wrote, because they are "flat". There are other performers out there which are technically more advanced (EX, mtw3 ecc...) but their eq have always something weird that makes them hard to be shaped to your taste. Indeed xm4 are definitely lacking resolution and detail, so if one found something that match better his/her house curve should buy it, but I would never buy any tws just because of its technicalities, I would spend hours and hours trying to eq them (as I did in the past). Or you can buy some BT adapter, I use utws5 when I am at home and the results are not comparable to any tws on the market at the moment.
> Try azla crystal, they have wide bores, make the bass cleaner and boost the penultimate octave.


I have some wide bore spiral dots that work well and I exactly what you getting with the Azla crystal. I actually have gone back to the original Sony hybrid tips at the moment. I kind of like what they do to the sound. But have the other tips handy as they offer an easy audio tweak or difference in comfort and fit.

I actually do own the UTWS5 and use it with the original FH5 which is my best TWS combo I own for pure audio quality at the moment. If I strike it rich I might spring for the FH9 as I think they might be the perfect guilty pleasure.

Funny how this hobby is so personal. What works great for one person leaves another wanting more. I saw so many people try the XM4 and walk away, and having tried several past Sony models figured I would ultimately not like my pair when I finally bought them. But for some reason they just sound really good to my ears. I still might sell them due to fit and the fact I flip my stuff so darn often. But even if I do it doesn't change the fact I really like how they sound. So for now I am enjoying the journey with them how ever long that lasts.


----------



## dweaver

subguy812 said:


> I have posted this a couple of times, but for a different perspective here are my EQ settings for the XM4 as well as the tips I have found that provide me the best sq and comfort.
> 
> I am going to try your settings as well!
> 
> ...


One thing for sure, the Sony EQ really works well. My curve sounds brash and glaring compared to you curve. I actually use 2 versions of my curve. One that is less upside down v shaped going +2 +3 +4 +3 +2, I like both and flip around a bit.

I tried your curve but was finding it took a bit to much from the 400 and 1K area. So just used that same curve but started at zero so went 0 0 +1 +3 +2. It's an interesting curve. I will continue to play with it. Definitely finding the EQ fun to play with.


----------



## Hozay

SynaestheticA said:


> Haven't had them in use for long enough to test battery. Only 2 hours at a time over the last few days. 20 minutes at max volume with 8k activated reduced battery by about 8%, don't know if that would be a consistent drop every 20 min but just what I paid attention to earlier. That would equate to 4.1 hours though.
> 
> One thing though is that these won't be anybody's endgame, a fun addition to the high end mix but certainly not the end of the road.


Thx for sharing, when I looked at the specs it seems the only thing thats not very competitive is the battery life. All other features look like the best TWS should have.


----------



## AlexCBSN

New oneplus buds incoming with dual driver, 6mm planar and 11mm dd, kinda excited for em.

The buds pro 1 were quite good and efficient for me, actually gave my wf1000xm4 to my wife cause I found the op more practical. The sound is more up to my “tws needs”

Looking forward for what the planar driver will bring


----------



## nekonhime

AlexCBSN said:


> New oneplus buds incoming with dual driver, 6mm planar and 11mm dd, kinda excited for em.
> 
> The buds pro 1 were quite good and efficient for me, actually gave my wf1000xm4 to my wife cause I found the op more practical. The sound is more up to my “tws needs”
> 
> Looking forward for what the planar driver will bring


What is the name of that earbuds? Pro II?


----------



## Canabuc

Well I said I've read so many good things about the Oppo Enco x2 earbuds and they're fantastic sound and I just looked on AliExpress and found a site that would ship free to Canada for $122 Canadian dollars so I said at that price it's worth it. I am going to return the Huawei freebuds Pro 2. I do really like their sound. I do not feel that they are sufficiently enough of an upgrade over my techniques. From what I've read the Oppo sound every bit as good as the Huawei and now these will be approximately half the price and so would be worth getting as an extra pair.
They will still have the dual driver setup with small planer magnetic drivers. They will still have the wireless charging. They will have full controls on the earbuds as well as multipoint connect and the ldac codec.
It appears they are scheduled to be delivered by the 16th which I find hard to believe.


----------



## rocketron

Hi guys.
Just received APP2 any tip recommendations for these?

I find they fall out rather easily.
Done the fit test and changed tip size but they are rather loose fitting.

Thanks in advance.


----------



## AlexCBSN (Jan 8, 2023)

nekonhime said:


> What is the name of that earbuds? Pro II?


Oneplus earbuds pro 2


----------



## dweaver (Jan 8, 2023)

Canabuc said:


> Well I said I've read so many good things about the Oppo Enco x2 earbuds and they're fantastic sound and I just looked on AliExpress and found a site that would ship free to Canada for $122 Canadian dollars so I said at that price it's worth it. I am going to return the Huawei freebuds Pro 2. I do really like their sound. I do not feel that they are sufficiently enough of an upgrade over my techniques. From what I've read the Oppo sound every bit as good as the Huawei and now these will be approximately half the price and so would be worth getting as an extra pair.
> They will still have the dual driver setup with small planer magnetic drivers. They will still have the wireless charging. They will have full controls on the earbuds as well as multipoint connect and the ldac codec.
> It appears they are scheduled to be delivered by the 16th which I find hard to believe.


Will be interested in you experience with the Oppo. The Huawei look interesting but just to stiff price wise and I worry about support long term due to issues with the company.

Those new Oneplus also look interesting. It's like all 3 companies are using the same manufacturer for these and then just putting their spin on them. I like the look of the OnePlus.


----------



## assassin10000

I played with the XM4 EQ and measured it.









I've since backed 2.5k down to 7. I prefer DF neutral like sound signatures tho.


----------



## Canabuc

dweaver said:


> Will be interested in you experience with the Oppo. The Huawei look interesting but just to stiff price wise and I worry about support long term due to issues with the company.
> 
> Those new Oneplus also look interesting. It's like all 3 companies are using the same manufacturer for these and then just putting their spin on them. I like the look of the OnePlus.


Huawei is nearly as big as Samsung.
Price was good at 228$ Canadian when I got the Huawei and they are very good. Sound wider and more range than my Technics.

My issue is the app for some reason doesn't like android 13 and had to use a workaround to get LDAC working .

Oppo has less support as can only order these from China but at 122$ Canadian shipped it's worth the gamble given how many stellar reviews


----------



## dweaver

assassin10000 said:


> I played with the XM4 EQ and measured it.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


This is an interesting EQ as well. I was playing one similar to this. I like the tones down 1khz region. In playing I tweaked it a smidge going +2+1+7+4+1.

I am starting to get used to the Sony sound... I turned of the EQ and liked that as well. But do prefer a bump in the 2.5khz and 6.3khz areas specifically. My hearing is bad enough I can't really hear anything in the 16khz region any more (I actually think I might have had hearing loss in that region even as kid if remember a hearing test done when I'm school correctly). But I still bump


----------



## MaxwellDemon

Canabuc said:


> The EVO really intrigue me.
> My hesitation getting them are the controls.
> 
> I am a fan of buds that have EQ, multi point. hi res codecs.
> ...


Yeah, in terms of control, I think the TWX9 offered the best so far. Will be hoping that the EVO at least have the sound aspect down though!


----------



## jant71

Hmmmm, what's this...




Looks like a Sennheiser doesn't it? 🧐


----------



## clerkpalmer

jant71 said:


> Hmmmm, what's this...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Sennheiser (which had its headphone business purchased by hearing aid company Sonova not too long ago) unveiled an expensive but very compelling self-fitting option in the Conversation Clear Plus. It doesn’t quite qualify as an OTC hearing aid, but this wearable is focused on making it easier for people who struggle to hear in noisy environments. The Sennheiser Conversation Clear Plus looks like a regular pair of true wireless earbuds, and features some things you’d expect to get out one, like ANC, making phone calls, and music playback.
The Conversation Clear Plus uses Bluetooth to connect to your phone, and there’s a companion to help you set it up and customize its performance for your needs. It features dedicated settings for three different noise environments too, so you’ll have options for when you’re at the party, and when you want to leave.


----------



## bladefd

clerkpalmer said:


> Sennheiser (which had its headphone business purchased by hearing aid company Sonova not too long ago) unveiled an expensive but very compelling self-fitting option in the Conversation Clear Plus. It doesn’t quite qualify as an OTC hearing aid, but this wearable is focused on making it easier for people who struggle to hear in noisy environments. The Sennheiser Conversation Clear Plus looks like a regular pair of true wireless earbuds, and features some things you’d expect to get out one, like ANC, making phone calls, and music playback.
> The Conversation Clear Plus uses Bluetooth to connect to your phone, and there’s a companion to help you set it up and customize its performance for your needs. It features dedicated settings for three different noise environments too, so you’ll have options for when you’re at the party, and when you want to leave.


Is that the tws in the photo? Jeez, $850 lol

https://www.sennheiser-hearing.com/en-US/p/conversation-clear-plus/


----------



## bladefd

inb4 @erockg orders a pair of $850 Sennheiser Conversation Clear!


----------



## clerkpalmer

bladefd said:


> Is that the tws in the photo? Jeez, $850 lol
> 
> https://www.sennheiser-hearing.com/en-US/p/conversation-clear-plus/


Yes


----------



## erockg

bladefd said:


> inb4 @erockg orders a pair of $850 Sennheiser Conversation Clear!


I read they were for folks who have hearing loss.  What are you trying to say!?!??!?!


----------



## nekonhime

clerkpalmer said:


> Sennheiser (which had its headphone business purchased by hearing aid company Sonova not too long ago) unveiled an expensive but very compelling self-fitting option in the Conversation Clear Plus. It doesn’t quite qualify as an OTC hearing aid, but this wearable is focused on making it easier for people who struggle to hear in noisy environments. The Sennheiser Conversation Clear Plus looks like a regular pair of true wireless earbuds, and features some things you’d expect to get out one, like ANC, making phone calls, and music playback.
> The Conversation Clear Plus uses Bluetooth to connect to your phone, and there’s a companion to help you set it up and customize its performance for your needs. It features dedicated settings for three different noise environments too, so you’ll have options for when you’re at the party, and when you want to leave.


And they use Bluetooth 4.2


----------



## cresny

clerkpalmer said:


> Sennheiser (which had its headphone business purchased by hearing aid company Sonova not too long ago) unveiled an expensive but very compelling self-fitting option in the Conversation Clear Plus. It doesn’t quite qualify as an OTC hearing aid, but this wearable is focused on making it easier for people who struggle to hear in noisy environments. The Sennheiser Conversation Clear Plus looks like a regular pair of true wireless earbuds, and features some things you’d expect to get out one, like ANC, making phone calls, and music playback.
> The Conversation Clear Plus uses Bluetooth to connect to your phone, and there’s a companion to help you set it up and customize its performance for your needs. It features dedicated settings for three different noise environments too, so you’ll have options for when you’re at the party, and when you want to leave.


I find this convergence of TWS tech and hearing aids very interesting, even beyond the unfortunate fact that I will be a customer sooner or later. ANC, DSP, bone conduction, heck, even throw in AI -- these won't be your grandmother's hearing aids.


----------



## erockg

cresny said:


> I find this convergence of TWS tech and hearing aids very interesting, even beyond the unfortunate fact that I will be a customer sooner or later. ANC, DSP, bone conduction, heck, even throw in AI -- these won't be your grandmother's hearing aids.


The Bragi Dash Pro were so far ahead of their time.  Shame they went away.


----------



## clerkpalmer

erockg said:


> The Bragi Dash Pro were so far ahead of their time.  Shame they went away.


TWS wasn’t even their end game. This is what they wanted. It took 9 years to get there. They were way ahead of their time.


----------



## bladefd

Anyone try the Campfire Audio Orbit that released couple weeks ago? Curious how they are, including talk quality. 

It has good reviews:
https://www.digitaltrends.com/home-theater/campfire-audio-orbit-review/
https://majorhifi.com/campfire-audio-orbit-review/


----------



## Tstorey

erockg said:


> I read they were for folks who have hearing loss.  What are you trying to say!?!??!?!


Do you need him to speak louder? 😂😂😉


----------



## nekonhime

Tstorey said:


> Do you need him to speak louder? 😂😂😉


Whispering louder lol


----------



## clerkpalmer (Monday at 10:06 AM)

Finally found a warm body at Nura.  They claimed they were out of stock and an expected shipment was not received.  So, they wouldn't ship until next week sometime meaning 3 weeks from order date even though the website indicated in stock when I ordered.  My gut tells me they were taking orders they couldn't fill as modern inventory management isn't that hard.  They were nice enough and I offered to cancel which I took them up on.  @erockg, does the BT transmitter over an iphone offer any SQ upgrade ?


----------



## Juturna

erockg said:


> I read they were for folks who have hearing loss.  What are you trying to say!?!??!?!


If you have to ask what they're trying to say, I think you might be needing those earbuds after all!
edit: somebody made a dumb joke about that already, nevermind.


----------



## ZMan2k2

Oh man @clerkpalmer , thanks for the update.  As a long time basshead, I’ve been eying the Nura Pros for a while.  Not sure if I want to commit so much anymore.


----------



## clerkpalmer

clerkpalmer said:


> Finally found a warm body at Nura.  They claimed they were out of stock and an expected shipment was not received.  So, they wouldn't ship until next week sometime meaning 3 weeks from order date even though the website indicated in stock when I ordered.  My gut tells me they were taking orders they couldn't fill as modern inventory management isn't that hard.  They were nice enough and I offered to cancel which I took them up on.  @erockg, does the BT transmitter over an iphone offer any SQ upgrade ?


This looks eerily similar to the Nura adapter which is now not available again.  https://us.creative.com/p/accessories/creative-bt-w4#buy-menu

Seems like it would do the same thing.


----------



## clerkpalmer

ZMan2k2 said:


> Oh man @clerkpalmer , thanks for the update.  As a long time basshead, I’ve been eying the Nura Pros for a while.  Not sure if I want to commit so much anymore.


Maybe you are more patient than me.  It's one thing if the website disclosed a shipping delay and I made the choice, but it's another when it says ships in 1 to 2 days, then they go dark for 2 weeks, then tell you 2 more weeks.


----------



## clerkpalmer

ZMan2k2 said:


> Oh man @clerkpalmer , thanks for the update.  As a long time basshead, I’ve been eying the Nura Pros for a while.  Not sure if I want to commit so much anymore.


If you are in the US, B&H has them for $299.


----------



## BooleanBones

subguy812 said:


> Ear Tips  I can't remember who recommended the tips, I think it was @BooleanBones .



Yep, that's what I use on mine. They work awesome for me. Great to see you don't have to order them from Hong Kong anymore


----------



## erockg

Juturna said:


> If you have to ask what they're trying to say, I think you might be needing those earbuds after all!
> edit: somebody made a dumb joke about that already, nevermind.


I'm so happy folks get my sense of humor!


----------



## erockg

clerkpalmer said:


> This looks eerily similar to the Nura adapter which is now not available again.  https://us.creative.com/p/accessories/creative-bt-w4#buy-menu
> 
> Seems like it would do the same thing.


Yes, I believe it does the same with older specs.  Honestly, I have hardly used the Nura adapter since received.  I am an iPhone guy, so convenience is really important to me.  Alas, i'll use it one day, glad I have it, but haven't exploited it yet.


----------



## erockg

Tstorey said:


> Do you need him to speak louder? 😂😂😉


Oh, he's def a loud talker on her


----------



## helmutcheese

Creative had Dongles before Nura, the BT3 and before that the BT2

If Nura do not add App support for the Dongle it is kind of pointless IMO.


----------



## harpdoc

helmutcheese said:


> Creative had Dongles before Nura, the BT3 and before that the BT2
> 
> If Nura do not add App support for the Dongle it is kind of pointless IMO.


Have you found an app that works with the BT-W4? I haven't found one that works for Android. I just use the button.


----------



## clerkpalmer

helmutcheese said:


> Creative had Dongles before Nura, the BT3 and before that the BT2
> 
> If Nura do not add App support for the Dongle it is kind of pointless IMO.


I don't think  the dongles need app support.  They just override the BT connection.


----------



## helmutcheese (Monday at 2:46 PM)

1) No, the Creative App is for Windows only.

2) I beg to differ, the cheap Chinese Dongle even have a Windows App and it is very handy, you can at least then force the HQ or LL Modes of aptX Adaptive and disable Codec you do not need/want and see the list of paired devices and can switch between them easily added to FW updates etc.

To release a premium high-end model and use it blindly with no App support *again IMO* is pointless.


----------



## clerkpalmer

helmutcheese said:


> 1) No, the Creative App is for Windows only.
> 
> 2) I beg to differ, the cheap Chinese Dongle even have a Windows App and it is very handy, you can at least then force the HQ or LL Modes of aptX Adaptive and disable Codec you do not need/want and see the list of paired devices and can switch between them easily added to FW updates etc.
> 
> To release a premium high-end model and use it blindly with no App support *again IMO* is pointless.


The dongle I used on my iPhone and pi7 from creative worked perfectly fine without any app support. Allowed me to get hi res on my iPhone. Hard to complain for 40 bucks.


----------



## helmutcheese (Monday at 2:58 PM)

That is your choice and opinion but not mine and I also would not use an Apple product by choice and the App is more for Windows use.

My Android phone is already Hi-Res without the dongle, just no aptX Adaptive as getting old now, it has aptX HD 24/48 and LDAC 24/96 and 24/192 wired.


----------



## clerkpalmer

helmutcheese said:


> That is your choice and opinion but not mine and I also would not use an Apple product by choice and the App is more for Windows use.


I guess we just have different expectations for the product - that is all.  For me, it served it's intended purpose of a cheap simple way to improve upon AAC from an iphone.


----------



## SynaestheticA

clerkpalmer said:


> I guess we just have different expectations for the product - that is all.  For me, it served it's intended purpose of a cheap simple way to improve upon AAC from an iphone.


Do they have any effect on max volume output?


----------



## clerkpalmer

SynaestheticA said:


> Do they have any effect on max volume output?


My recollection is no. The dongle basically takes over the audio out on the phone and then transmits the audio to the earphones. So for me on an iPhone, the phone transmits hi res audio into the dongle. The dongle then transmits aptxhd to the earphones even though an iPhone doesn’t support aptxhd. Pretty brilliant.


----------



## Hozay (Monday at 5:58 PM)

Hi folks can anybody offer any opinions on this: Can a wired IEM beat TWS that sell for similar price on sound quality? For example, Final E5000 ($200-$300), against most TWS (most TWS are under $300) Excluding any DAC/AMP, TWS using AAC/Aptx (most common codecs), Final E5000 directly connect to mobilephone/PC.


----------



## clerkpalmer (Monday at 5:48 PM)

Hozay said:


> Can a wired IEM beat TWS that sell for similar price?


Yes.

_But can a TWS beat a wired IEM that sell for a similar price?_

Yes.

In my experience, in general and subject to exceptions, a wired IEM will beat a similarly priced TWS IEM.  But there's a whole of of other things to consider.  TWS have a lot of features that wired IEMs don't (portability, battery life, ANC, codecs, multipoint, sweat resistance etc.)  . I assume your question is limited to sound quality and in most cases, a wired IEM will sound better than a TWS IEM assuming price is equal.  The vast majority of TWS on the market are not focused on pure SQ.  Stated differently, they aren't even _trying to beat a wired IEM.  _So I think you are probably comparing apples to oranges unless all you care about is pure sound quality.  In that case, you have your answer (subject to exceptions).


----------



## Hozay

clerkpalmer said:


> Yes.
> 
> _But can a TWS beat a wired IEM that sell for a similar price?_
> 
> ...


Thx for your thoughts, sorry that I did not make it clear, yes I was only asking about the sound quality, not functions. And exclude DAC/AMPs coz that will make the competition pointless as TWS can't use any dac/amps via codec. I was also asking if for example Final E5000 can beat all TWS because most TWS sell for less than $350, but IEM goes way up. So had to narrow the IEM price range down to $300 or less.


----------



## clerkpalmer

Hozay said:


> Thx for your thoughts, sorry that I did not make it clear, yes I was only asking about the sound quality, not functions. And exclude DAC/AMPs coz that will make the competition pointless as TWS can't use any dac/amps via codec. I was also asking if for example Final E5000 can beat all TWS because most TWS sell for less than $350, but IEM goes way up. So had to narrow the IEM price range down to $300 or less.


Haven’t heard a final e5000 but my guess is there isn’t any tws that could hang with it for sound quality but there are some very good sounding tws. You could also explore tws adapters with higher end iems and get the best of both worlds.


----------



## Hozay

clerkpalmer said:


> Haven’t heard a final e5000 but my guess is there isn’t any tws that could hang with it for sound quality but there are some very good sounding tws. You could also explore tws adapters with higher end iems and get the best of both worlds.


For "very good sounding tws" are you refering to fokus pro or other premium priced TWS? And TWS adapters only give you better codecs, so to make it simple I just let IEM w/o dac/amp compete against TWS with common codecs. The reason I ask is I was thinking about spend less on TWS coz I tried $350/$300/$200 TWS under same codec and they dont sound very different, beside none of them can beat IEM with similar price, so why not invest more on IEM and get a "middle class" TWS just for exercising. Because $200 TWS do sound lot better than $100 ones, but anything over $250, are flagships of various brands and they all sound just fine. It seems that a wired IEM are more like a mechanical product, and TWS are electrical products which upgrade much often than IEM.


----------



## clerkpalmer

Hozay said:


> For "very good sounding tws" are you refering to fokus pro or other premium priced TWS? And TWS adapters only give you better codecs, so to make it simple I just let IEM w/o dac/amp compete against TWS with common codecs. The reason I ask is I was thinking about spend less on TWS coz I tried $350/$300/$200 TWS under same codec and they dont sound very different, beside none of them can beat IEM with similar price, so why not invest more on IEM and get a "middle class" TWS just for exercising. Because $200 TWS do sound lot better than $100 ones, but anything over $250, are flagships of various brands and they all sound just fine. It seems that a wired IEM are more like a mechanical product, and TWS are electrical products which upgrade much often than IEM.


I would go with your plan.  High end wired IEM for audio listening, and "middle class" TWS for on the go, gym etc.  I'd take a look at the Bose QCII in the "middle" price bracket you are looking at.


----------



## erockg (Monday at 7:59 PM)

Hozay said:


> For "very good sounding tws" are you refering to fokus pro or other premium priced TWS? And TWS adapters only give you better codecs, so to make it simple I just let IEM w/o dac/amp compete against TWS with common codecs. The reason I ask is I was thinking about spend less on TWS coz I tried $350/$300/$200 TWS under same codec and they dont sound very different, beside none of them can beat IEM with similar price, so why not invest more on IEM and get a "middle class" TWS just for exercising. Because $200 TWS do sound lot better than $100 ones, but anything over $250, are flagships of various brands and they all sound just fine. It seems that a wired IEM are more like a mechanical product, and TWS are electrical products which upgrade much often than IEM.


For perspective, I use a few high end IEMs, or may mid-high end (Thieaudio Clairvoyance/Shure SE846) with a Shure TW2 adapter and they're stellar.  IMO, they DO sound better than my high end TWS.  Plus, if you want to go wired, you have the option.  Best of all worlds.  Just took me a while to find a few IEMs that I really love.


----------



## Caipirina

What are the chances I find the APP2 at an airport duty free store (Pearson Toronto Canada specifically)? I did not realize they charge 13% tax here and with the boxing day sales over, the APP2 at 329CA$ end up costing pretty much the same as back home in Tokyo. There's still that deal for 278CA$ at Visions, but seems not available in stores anymore (checked one today and then on website) and online ordering is a bit iffy in my case.


----------



## natalieann

I firmly stand by Beoplay EX and EQ…There is no better sounding TWS on the market currently.


----------



## Gilroypro

natalieann said:


> I firmly stand by Beoplay EX and EQ…There is no better sounding TWS on the market currently.


I beg to differ. I own the Beoplay EX and other top TWS. The best sounding TWS to me imo are the Nuratrue Pro


----------



## alsorkin

Gilroypro said:


> I beg to differ. I own the Beoplay EX and other top TWS. The best sounding TWS to me imo are the Nuratrue Pro


Agree that Nuratrue Pro is the best TWS.


----------



## Gilroypro

alsorkin said:


> Agree that Nuratrue Pro is the best TWS.


I don't really mess around EQs. The Nuratrue personalized sound is amazing. Does a custom EQ for you ears and the sweet spot of Aptx Lossless from my Rog Phone 6. Bitter sweet


----------



## clerkpalmer

alsorkin said:


> Agree that Nuratrue Pro is the best TWS.


For those who love the Nura not named erockg are you running Aptx adaptive or standard codecs? Just debating whether I should spring for a dongle.


----------



## Gilroypro

clerkpalmer said:


> For those who love the Nura not named erockg are you running Aptx adaptive or standard codecs? Just debating whether I should spring for a dongle.


I recommend the nura dongle since you will be able to get Snapdragon Sound. Which is an updated Aptx Adaptive. 24bit/96hz sample rate, increased variable bitrate up to 860kbps and lower latency


----------



## Hozay

erockg said:


> For perspective, I use a few high end IEMs, or may mid-high end (Thieaudio Clairvoyance/Shure SE846) with a Shure TW2 adapter and they're stellar.  IMO, they DO sound better than my high end TWS.  Plus, if you want to go wired, you have the option.  Best of all worlds.  Just took me a while to find a few IEMs that I really love.


It all happened after I tested a few flagship TWS and found they don't sound much different to me, maybe my ears are not sensitive enuff to tell the diff. And wired IEM world is just a lot bigger, investments deliver straight forward effects.


----------



## Hozay

natalieann said:


> I firmly stand by Beoplay EX and EQ…There is no better sounding TWS on the market currently.


I tried EX and fokus pro and can't tell much diff, but yea EX is pretty much the best for now, even there is something thats better, only tiny better, on certain things.


----------



## Hozay

Gilroypro said:


> I beg to differ. I own the Beoplay EX and other top TWS. The best sounding TWS to me imo are the Nuratrue Pro


Sadly I didn't try Nuratrue pro coz they don't reply to my emails. But did try twx9/fw1000t/ex/uw100/pi7/fokus pro in your photo, all of em sound find and are good tws to me. Just missed the best.


----------



## SynaestheticA

Gilroypro said:


> I beg to differ. I own the Beoplay EX and other top TWS. The best sounding TWS to me imo are the Nuratrue Pro


How do you rate the Fiio FW5? Testing it against the ZE8000 and trying to figure out where the benchmark is.


----------



## Phaethon

bladefd said:


> Anyone try the Campfire Audio Orbit that released couple weeks ago? Curious how they are, including talk quality.
> 
> It has good reviews:
> https://www.digitaltrends.com/home-theater/campfire-audio-orbit-review/
> https://majorhifi.com/campfire-audio-orbit-review/


I am a CA fanboy and I’m receiving mine from Amazon US Thursday


----------



## erockg

bladefd said:


> Anyone try the Campfire Audio Orbit that released couple weeks ago? Curious how they are, including talk quality.
> 
> It has good reviews:
> https://www.digitaltrends.com/home-theater/campfire-audio-orbit-review/
> https://majorhifi.com/campfire-audio-orbit-review/


Of course I did!  Wrote some thoughts a few weeks ago - do a search.  Returned them due to ghost taps registering while in my ears.  Plan to repurchase soon.


----------



## SynaestheticA (Tuesday at 12:41 AM)

Double post


----------



## SynaestheticA

Hozay said:


> even there is something thats better, only tiny better, on certain things.


I'm kind of inclined to agree at this point. I've been listening to the new Final and Fiio side by side along with older models like the Nuarl N6 Pro2.

While the former two are better, they aren't orders of magnitude better and they don't put other buds to shame. I've been assuming that if you go for the more high end bud you're going to get significant gains. After trying a high end model I'm impressed and I like it, but it's not a game changer, just a different sound presentation.


----------



## cYxFrag

Gilroypro said:


> I beg to differ. I own the Beoplay EX and other top TWS. The best sounding TWS to me imo are the Nuratrue Pro


How do you rate fiio fw5 vs Nuratrue Pro? What are the differences in sound?


----------



## Vonbuddy




----------



## clerkpalmer

erockg said:


> Of course I did!  Wrote some thoughts a few weeks ago - do a search.  Returned them due to ghost taps registering while in my ears.  Plan to repurchase soon.


From now on, no need to post in this thread.  Just IM Erockg.  Chances are he's tried it.


----------



## clerkpalmer

Hozay said:


> Sadly I didn't try Nuratrue pro coz they don't reply to my emails.


Sounds familiar.  Sounds like a guaranteed way to run your company right out of business.  They did admit to me that they sold me an item as in stock that wasn't.  That's 2 strikes.  We will see if the actual product redeems them.


----------



## Hozay

SynaestheticA said:


> I'm kind of inclined to agree at this point. I've been listening to the new Final and Fiio side by side along with older models like the Nuarl N6 Pro2.
> 
> While the former two are better, they aren't orders of magnitude better and they don't put other buds to shame. I've been assuming that if you go for the more high end bud you're going to get significant gains. After trying a high end model I'm impressed and I like it, but it's not a game changer, just a different sound presentation.


Yea I didn't know that until I tested a few. I thought the difference between TWS are like the diff between IEM and on-ear headphones, but nah, prob because they don't have that big price range. So the brands can't really produce anything magnificently better, high end TWS are around $300 not $3000 or even more like IEMs.


----------



## Hozay

clerkpalmer said:


> Sounds familiar.  Sounds like a guaranteed way to run your company right out of business.  They did admit to me that they sold me an item as in stock that wasn't.  That's 2 strikes.  We will see if the actual product redeems them.


Well actually they did after 2 weeks but due to that "pre-order" thing still shows on the website and I didn't have that much passion. And they cant promise a shipping date. And they only sell it on their website, not Amazon not any other retailers. So I didn't order one at the end. But now someone tells me its the best, maybe I should have


----------



## Hozay

clerkpalmer said:


> Sounds familiar.  Sounds like a guaranteed way to run your company right out of business.  They did admit to me that they sold me an item as in stock that wasn't.  That's 2 strikes.  We will see if the actual product redeems them.


Damn I just found they put it on Amazon, literally today. with one-day Prime delivery


----------



## BooleanBones

Hozay said:


> Yea I didn't know that until I tested a few. I thought the difference between TWS are like the diff between IEM and on-ear headphones, but nah, prob because they don't have that big price range. So the brands can't really produce anything magnificently better, high end TWS are around $300 not $3000 or even more like IEMs.


I think one factor in the TWS vs IEM comparison is the fact that the cost on TWS has to be kept down somewhat as they are pretty much disposable items, where IEMs generally are not. Not many folks would be willing to spend a grand or two on an item that goes in the trash once the batteries wear out. At least with Over the Ear BT, the batteries are generally replaceable.


----------



## Vonbuddy

BooleanBones said:


> I think one factor in the TWS vs IEM comparison is the fact that the cost on TWS has to be kept down somewhat as they are pretty much disposable items, where IEMs generally are not. Not many folks would be willing to spend a grand or two on an item that goes in the trash once the batteries wear out. At least with Over the Ear BT, the batteries are generally replaceable.


I would hope the Noble Fokus Pro or its new modified version at over 350 dollars wouldn't be disposable.


----------



## BooleanBones

Vonbuddy said:


> I would hope the Noble Fokus Pro or its new modified version at over 350 dollars wouldn't be disposable.


The Fokus Pro is. I am not aware of any TWS that have replaceable batteries. Probably by the time the batteries wear out the tech will be far enough along, it’s not worth changing the batteries anyways.


----------



## Vonbuddy

BooleanBones said:


> The Fokus Pro is. I am not aware of any TWS that have replaceable batteries. Probably by the time the batteries wear out the tech will be far enough along, it’s not worth changing the batteries anywhere.


What is the average life of the battery?  Or do some last longer than others?


----------



## BooleanBones

Vonbuddy said:


> What is the average life of the battery?  Or do some last longer than others?


Good question. The only TWS I have that I use extensively daily are my APP (meetings, etc.). Mine have degraded to a couple hours before requiring charging, which is about 50% or a bit more after a couple of years. I have quite a few TWS and headphones, so most of my others are still in a pretty good state. Perhaps others will chime on on their experiences too.


----------



## jant71

BooleanBones said:


> The Fokus Pro is. I am not aware of any TWS that have replaceable batteries. Probably by the time the batteries wear out the tech will be far enough along, it’s not worth changing the batteries anyways.


There are a couple. Stem style and the batteries are in the stem part that you swap out. Comes with an extra pair so you swap out instantly and let the other pair charge. Nice option for seconds instead of waiting 10 minute for an hour or two quick charge. Obviously this was done by some small brand looking for a selling point. Big brands want you to buy the next gen model not buy another set of batteries for the one you have so they wouldn't do it.


----------



## DantoIzzo

clerkpalmer said:


> Got a shipping notice today.  Seems legit.


Hello -- I was wondering whether you have received your AirPods Pro 2 that you ordered from https://www.discountstoresavings.com/?  If so, is it legitimate?   I saw that you had ordered it, so I did as well.  But I have learned since that super fakes are now so good that folks can't tell the difference.  The fakes even interact with the iphone in a similar way.  Thanks!


----------



## clerkpalmer

Vonbuddy said:


> I would hope the Noble Fokus Pro or its new modified version at over 350 dollars wouldn't be disposable.


In some respects they are.  The battery of course is disposable but the reality is, in 2 to 3 years, advances in TWS technology will render them obsolete before the battery wears out.  I argued before that advances in TWS have become incremental and I stand by that, but over the course of 2 to 3 years, there will likely be meaningful advances.  Setting aside the codec debate, smaller batteries, power consumption, amping over time should leave more opportunity for higher end components, drivers and configurations.  I still think there is room for higher end TWS (let's say over $500) but we haven't seen much interest from the audio companies in trying that.  It may be that the current physical limitations of packing all of that technology into an IEM just won't allow for it.  That should change over time.


----------



## clerkpalmer

DantoIzzo said:


> Hello -- I was wondering whether you have received your AirPods Pro 2 that you ordered from https://www.discountstoresavings.com/?  If so, is it legitimate?   I saw that you had ordered it, so I did as well.  But I have learned since that super fakes are now so good that folks can't tell the difference.  The fakes even interact with the iphone in a similar way.  Thanks!


They are sending me a second pair which they assure me are legitimate.  We will see when they arrive.  They insist they are selling legitimate products and have been very responsive which is not something I would expect from a seller of fakes.  I'll report back when they arrive.


----------



## Vonbuddy

jant71 said:


> There are a couple. Stem style and the batteries are in the stem part that you swap out. Comes with an extra pair so you swap out instantly and let the other pair charge. Nice option for seconds instead of waiting 10 minute for an hour or two quick charge. Obviously this was done by some small brand looking for a selling point. Big brands want you to buy the next gen model not buy another set of batteries for the one you have so they wouldn't do it.


What brands sell these "stem" styles with extra batteries?


----------



## shooter

Gilroypro said:


> I beg to differ. I own the Beoplay EX and other top TWS. The best sounding TWS to me imo are the Nuratrue Pro


Better than Fokus Pro? And in what way?


----------



## clerkpalmer

shooter said:


> Better than Fokus Pro? And in what way?


At this point, we are in subjective territory.  I've owned the Noble and the Beoplay.  Neither is better.  The differences are subjective and come down to personal preference; namely, tuning.  The Noble is certainly more accurate but the EX has tuning that most of us find close to perfect.  There are only winners in this contest. 

@erockg, you probably already know this but the A46 preorder button is now live.


----------



## DantoIzzo

clerkpalmer said:


> They are sending me a second pair which they assure me are legitimate.  We will see when they arrive.  They insist they are selling legitimate products and have been very responsive which is not something I would expect from a seller of fakes.  I'll report back when they arrive.


May I ask why they have to send you a second pair?  What was wrong with the first pair?  This actually makes me somewhat nervous...


----------



## shooter

clerkpalmer said:


> At this point, we are in subjective territory.  I've owned the Noble and the Beoplay.  Neither is better.  The differences are subjective and come down to personal preference; namely, tuning.  The Noble is certainly more accurate but the EX has tuning that most of us find close to perfect.  There are only winners in this contest.
> 
> @erockg, you probably already know this but the A46 preorder button is now live.


Acrually I asked about the tunning difference.


----------



## Sam L

Hozay said:


> Hi folks can anybody offer any opinions on this: Can a wired IEM beat TWS that sell for similar price on sound quality? For example, Final E5000 ($200-$300), against most TWS (most TWS are under $300) Excluding any DAC/AMP, TWS using AAC/Aptx (most common codecs), Final E5000 directly connect to mobilephone/PC.


$20 to $50 wired iems are better than any tws in the $200-300 range.


----------



## shooter

Sam L said:


> $20 to $50 wired iems are better than any tws in the $200-300 range.


I'd disagree, it depends what IEM and what TWS. Can happen 100 usd TWS can beat 200 usd IEM.


----------



## Hozay

BooleanBones said:


> I think one factor in the TWS vs IEM comparison is the fact that the cost on TWS has to be kept down somewhat as they are pretty much disposable items, where IEMs generally are not. Not many folks would be willing to spend a grand or two on an item that goes in the trash once the batteries wear out. At least with Over the Ear BT, the batteries are generally replaceable.


Yea I agree, thats why I said it seems TWS are like electric products, they upgrade quickly and the price drop down dramatically when new upgrades come out.


----------



## Hozay

Vonbuddy said:


> What is the average life of the battery?  Or do some last longer than others?


Normally its the length of warranty. I do miss the time that a fridge/tv/wash machine can last 20 years.


----------



## erockg

clerkpalmer said:


> At this point, we are in subjective territory.  I've owned the Noble and the Beoplay.  Neither is better.  The differences are subjective and come down to personal preference; namely, tuning.  The Noble is certainly more accurate but the EX has tuning that most of us find close to perfect.  There are only winners in this contest.
> 
> @erockg, you probably already know this but the A46 preorder button is now live.


I do, I do... waiting...

Agree with your points above for @shooter I have both the EX and Fokus Pro.  Both are wonderful.  I can't say I prefer one over the other.  Maybe the FP for sound, but it's subjective like you say.  Most of us have more than one TWS.  If you want features, get the EX.  If you prefer only sound, go with the Fokus Pro knowing you will get zero frills.  Better to wait for the Fokus Mystique.  Besides, I don't even think the Fokus Pro is in stock anywhere now.  The models are so close, Noble could choose to let it go OOP.


----------



## jant71 (Tuesday at 1:37 PM)

None worth buying. Unless they have improved the whole package like the mics and other stuff. Small brands like PQ https://pqearbuds.com/ .

Hey, interesting comment about the detail...

Seem to be getting kudos on the SQ.


----------



## erockg

clerkpalmer said:


> They are sending me a second pair which they assure me are legitimate.  We will see when they arrive.  They insist they are selling legitimate products and have been very responsive which is not something I would expect from a seller of fakes.  I'll report back when they arrive.


Great news!  A stupid wild hair (and an Amazon gift card) made me pick up the Senn MTW3 because they dropped the price below 200.  They arrived opened, scratched up and from what I could tell, someone had a really bad earwax problem.  Thanks Amazon.


----------



## erockg

jant71 said:


> None worth buying. Unless they have improved the whole package like the mics and other stuff. Small brands like PQ https://pqearbuds.com/ .
> 
> Hey, interesting comment about the detail...
> 
> Seem to be getting kudos on the SQ.



Yeah, I'm unsure what he likes.  His reviews are like Flossy.  Cool to see the new tech, but better to aggregate it with a bunch of other reviews and make your own conclusion.  The Mackie again, are the Noble Fokus H-ANC with different tuning, wireless charging.  Very curious though.  Oddly enough, I haven't tried them... yet.  Do it for me!


----------



## jant71

erockg said:


> Yeah, I'm unsure what he likes.  His reviews are like Flossy.  Cool to see the new tech, but better to aggregate it with a bunch of other reviews and make your own conclusion.  The Mackie again, are the Noble Fokus H-ANC with different tuning, wireless charging.  Very curious though.  Oddly enough, I haven't tried them... yet.  Do it for me!


I don't think they are exactly the same. Think Mackie are not lying about having a custom driver that may not be the same titanium coated one in the Noble. They might have done a better job on the SQ.


----------



## Vonbuddy

erockg said:


> Great news!  A stupid wild hair (and an Amazon gift card) made me pick up the Senn MTW3 because they dropped the price below 200.  They arrived opened, scratched up and from what I could tell, someone had a really bad earwax problem.  Thanks Amazon.


Great news as in "bad" news.  On occasion Amazon will have a hiccup.


----------



## erockg

jant71 said:


> I don't think they are exactly the same. Think Mackie are not lying about having a custom driver that may not be the same titanium coated one in the Noble. They might have done a better job on the SQ.


I've hit my quota this week, so I'm going to need you to buy them and report back.


----------



## clerkpalmer (Tuesday at 3:33 PM)

DantoIzzo said:


> May I ask why they have to send you a second pair?  What was wrong with the first pair?  This actually makes me somewhat nervous...


Missing screen on 1.  Poor sound quality.  Some red flags on the serial number and packaging.  Most likely a fake but Apple has them so the jury is still out on it.


----------



## clerkpalmer

erockg said:


> Great news!  A stupid wild hair (and an Amazon gift card) made me pick up the Senn MTW3 because they dropped the price below 200.  They arrived opened, scratched up and from what I could tell, someone had a really bad earwax problem.  Thanks Amazon.


Sorry man. I'll use a q-tip next time.


----------



## Bhelpoori

Vonbuddy said:


> What is the average life of the battery?  Or do some last longer than others?


It is normally specified as after 500 charge cycles, the battery will retain 80% of the original energy. Batteries also lose ability with age, temperature and other variables. My general rule of thumb with any Lithium type battery is that it has an average 5 year life even if the cycles are lower than max. 

Note: This applies whether they are over the ears or TWS. You can get batteries with 1000 charge cycles too but those are rare in headphones.


----------



## MoonWalk

Good review of the NuraTrue Pro
https://www.expertreviews.co.uk/headphones/1417080/nuratrue-pro-review


----------



## Bhelpoori

BooleanBones said:


> I think one factor in the TWS vs IEM comparison is the fact that the cost on TWS has to be kept down somewhat as they are pretty much disposable items, where IEMs generally are not. Not many folks would be willing to spend a grand or two on an item that goes in the trash once the batteries wear out. At least with Over the Ear BT, the batteries are generally replaceable.


I look on this discussion differently. 

TWS contain many components not in an IEM:
1. A box with batteries and processor etc to store the TWS. 
2. Bluetooth aerial, amplifier etc 
3. DAC and amplifier 
4. Software and integration 
5. Two batteries, one each side
6. Compliance testing ($$$ and time)
7. An application on Android and iOS
8. Microphones with amplifier etc circuits
9. Waterproofing with environmental testing 

That’s a lot of stuff! Worse is that there are many more companies involved which adds cost and time. TWS are also just way more complex than an IEM to build which has several implications:

1. You need to build a lot of them to pay for the engineering and production so the volume commitment for a TWS is much greater. 

2. If you need to sell more volume then selling them at $1000 isn’t going to work because you are going to sell too few. 

3. Technology is moving fast so likely a TWS will need refreshing quicker so you need to make the volume quicker than with an IEM… which forces aiming the headphone at a lower price to capture sales earlier.


----------



## DantoIzzo

clerkpalmer said:


> Missing screen on 1.  Poor sound quality.  Some red flags on the serial number and packaging.  Most likely a fake but Apple has them so the jury is still out on it.


Apple has them?  What do you mean?  Did you send it to Apple or send it back to the store?


----------



## Bhelpoori (Tuesday at 4:33 PM)

Double post. Sorry.


----------



## SynaestheticA

Bhelpoori said:


> It is normally specified as after 500 charge cycles, the battery will retain 80% of the original energy. Batteries also lose ability with age, temperature and other variables. My general rule of thumb with any Lithium type battery is that it has an average 5 year life even if the cycles are lower than max.
> 
> Note: This applies whether they are over the ears or TWS. You can get batteries with 1000 charge cycles too but those are rare in headphones.


Surely we'll all buy a new tws before the battery goes completely kaput. 5 years from now I'm going to look at my little collection the way I look at the Ipod nano 4th gen from 2009 that I still have for some reason. Or has the hyper-consumerist capitalist world system I've done so well at avoiding finally materialised in full force with this one specific product?


----------



## scubaphish

DantoIzzo said:


> Apple has them?  What do you mean?  Did you send it to Apple or send it back to the store?


Personally, after @clerkpalmer posted his experience with the first set, I cancelled my order at discountwhatever. For one they had all the hallmarks of a set of fakes; next, apple wasn’t like “oh those are totally real, I cannot believe they sound so bad”, they said “er, um, we better check those out and get back to you”; and lastly I didn’t read that discountwhatever asked for the buds back. They said “we don’t sell fakes, you’ll see we’ll send you another set”. If they were legit and just happened to sell a bad set, I would think that they would have asked for them back as proof. Maybe they did and he told them it’s with apple…which would have sketched them out I’d think. 
Just my thoughts as I was thinking of buying from there, too.


----------



## clerkpalmer

scubaphish said:


> Personally, after @clerkpalmer posted his experience with the first set, I cancelled my order at discountwhatever. For one they had all the hallmarks of a set of fakes; next, apple wasn’t like “oh those are totally real, I cannot believe they sound so bad”, they said “er, um, we better check those out and get back to you”; and lastly I didn’t read that discountwhatever asked for the buds back. They said “we don’t sell fakes, you’ll see we’ll send you another set”. If they were legit and just happened to sell a bad set, I would think that they would have asked for them back as proof. Maybe they did and he told them it’s with apple…which would have sketched them out I’d think.
> Just my thoughts as I was thinking of buying from there, too.


They did ask for them back. They also sent me a return label and offered a full refund. They seem adamant they are selling legit products. Probably not worth the savings tbh but even if you get fakes and if they refused a return you always can file a dispute with your cc.


----------



## DantoIzzo

scubaphish said:


> Personally, after @clerkpalmer posted his experience with the first set, I cancelled my order at discountwhatever. For one they had all the hallmarks of a set of fakes; next, apple wasn’t like “oh those are totally real, I cannot believe they sound so bad”, they said “er, um, we better check those out and get back to you”; and lastly I didn’t read that discountwhatever asked for the buds back. They said “we don’t sell fakes, you’ll see we’ll send you another set”. If they were legit and just happened to sell a bad set, I would think that they would have asked for them back as proof. Maybe they did and he told them it’s with apple…which would have sketched them out I’d think.
> Just my thoughts as I was thinking of buying from there, too.


Did he share a post about his experience? If so I didn’t see it. Can you link it?


----------



## DantoIzzo

clerkpalmer said:


> They did ask for them back. They also sent me a return label and offered a full refund. They seem adamant they are selling legit products. Probably not worth the savings tbh but even if you get fakes and if they refused a return you always can file a dispute with your cc.


Yeah I’m a bit sketched out right now. Probably should’ve just bought them at Target. Also did you write up your experience? If so I didn’t see it. Can you link? Thanks!


----------



## scubaphish (Tuesday at 6:24 PM)

DantoIzzo said:


> Did he share a post about his experience? If so I didn’t see it. Can you link it?


It starts here


clerkpalmer said:


> Bad news. APP2 arrived with a missing screen and they sound terrible. Something is definitely wrong. It’s weird my iPhone recognizes and the serial number them but it says no coverage for warranty. Guessing I got scammed. They are definitely defective. They look and feel legit however. Maybe a knock off?


And here:
Yeah I have been in touch with them. They have been very responsive. They are sending me another pair which they said they will inspect beforehand. They do in fact want to make it right. It’s possible someone sold them counterfeits as well. I’ll report back but as of now they have offered to send another set that is guaranteed legit to me. Just annoying. Phone call with apple then to the Apple Store (probably got Covid in there it was so packed) and now I have to wait but I will say they are REALLY good fakes if they are indeed fake. Apple kept them at the store “for further testing”.


----------



## erockg

clerkpalmer said:


> They did ask for them back. They also sent me a return label and offered a full refund. They seem adamant they are selling legit products. Probably not worth the savings tbh but even if you get fakes and if they refused a return you always can file a dispute with your cc.


Curiously, I checked their address on Google Maps.  Seems to be an empty lot.  Gotta love the Bronx.  This is getting GOOD...


----------



## BooleanBones

erockg said:


> Curiously, I checked their address on Google Maps.  Seems to be an empty lot.  Gotta love the Bronx.  This is getting GOOD...


----------



## DantoIzzo

Yeah. This is not good. Mine is coming tomorrow. Below is my email exchange with the guy

We have no idea about what you are referring to. But we encourage you to check your item once you receive it, in fact, take it to an Apple Store if you wish to, and try out the item to check all the functions, as we are sure you will be fully satisfied with your purchase. And if for any reason you are not completely satisfied you may return anything to us within 30 days from the delivery date for a full refund. We provide prepaid labels for returns as stated in our return policy. We also back everything with a direct warranty provided by us for any damage or defect for up to one year, but you also have the option to use Apple for any service since it is also under their warranty, which may be more convenient depending on your needs and where you live in relation to a store that can handle service for you. Thank you. 


> I'm writing to follow up on our email exchange.  I recently purchased an airpod pro 2 (confirmation number  )  It has come to my attention from a member of head-fi.org (an online headphone community) that he may have received a fake airpod from you all.  This is very concerning to me as the product i bought just shipped and I'm scheduled to receive it tomorrow.  Given this news, can I get a refund if I return the item to you?  Will you be providing a packing slip?


----------



## clerkpalmer

DantoIzzo said:


> Yeah. This is not good. Mine is coming tomorrow. Below is my email exchange with the guy
> 
> We have no idea about what you are referring to. But we encourage you to check your item once you receive it, in fact, take it to an Apple Store if you wish to, and try out the item to check all the functions, as we are sure you will be fully satisfied with your purchase. And if for any reason you are not completely satisfied you may return anything to us within 30 days from the delivery date for a full refund. We provide prepaid labels for returns as stated in our return policy. We also back everything with a direct warranty provided by us for any damage or defect for up to one year, but you also have the option to use Apple for any service since it is also under their warranty, which may be more convenient depending on your needs and where you live in relation to a store that can handle service for you. Thank you.


 They certainly are doubling down on this.


----------



## DantoIzzo

clerkpalmer said:


> They certainly are doubling down on this.


Definitely will be interesting. Did you ever hear back from Apple? I guess since mine is shipped, I’ll see what it looks like. Will post update tmr. Lol this will be interesting.


----------



## nekonhime

erockg said:


> Curiously, I checked their address on Google Maps.  Seems to be an empty lot.  Gotta love the Bronx.  This is getting GOOD...


The address can be for warehouse not the store ( the store does not exist physically). This can save some money for the owner.


----------



## erockg

nekonhime said:


> The address can be for warehouse not the store ( the store does not exist physically). This can save some money for the owner.


Of course, but if you look, the address skips a beat.  Who knows where the warehouse is.  Common practice.  I get that.  Clearly, we'll find out soon enough.  Fingers crossed for those who bit.


----------



## Canabuc

When something is that much cheaper than everybody else I never chance it.

Did that once with a purchase off instagram. Got something not like description. Made claim with pay p who said it was close enough and refused to refund me. Thankfully charge had gone through my bank and fraud prevention credited me minus a fee.


----------



## nekonhime

erockg said:


> Of course, but if you look, the address skips a beat.  Who knows where the warehouse is.  Common practice.  I get that.  Clearly, we'll find out soon enough.  Fingers crossed for those who bit.


Probably to prevent robbery. But anyway, 🍿


----------



## erockg

nekonhime said:


> Probably to prevent robbery. But anyway, 🍿


----------



## nekonhime

One day shipping isn't a joke lol


----------



## Gilroypro

My 1st Vivo TWS. They have Aptx Lossless, so was tempted


----------



## nekonhime

Gilroypro said:


> My 1st Vivo TWS. They have Aptx Lossless, so was tempted


Can't wait for your review


----------



## nekonhime (Wednesday at 5:50 AM)

The mackie mp 20tws is super loud (50% volume is enough to pierce my ears), I don't think there is any app to support the buds.
Have not test the anc outside but it is good inside my room
Low
This one will lack the bass you need if you are a bass head. (Great sub bass though)
Mid
Instruments separation is great
Female and male vocal is a bit airy
High
This one is where it shine the most (clean and smooth)
Pretty large soundstage in my opinion
Fit for classical music and soft music, not very good for pop and electronic
They last for 5 hours at 80% ( low battery will keep beeping every 10 sec), the buds either malfunction or have imbalance battery in each earbuds ( I have not charge it yet) 
Phone call seem to have no problem


----------



## helmutcheese

*Another review:*


----------



## tiagopinto

Hozay said:


> For "very good sounding tws" are you refering to fokus pro or other premium priced TWS? And TWS adapters only give you better codecs, so to make it simple I just let IEM w/o dac/amp compete against TWS with common codecs. The reason I ask is I was thinking about spend less on TWS coz I tried $350/$300/$200 TWS under same codec and they dont sound very different, beside none of them can beat IEM with similar price, so why not invest more on IEM and get a "middle class" TWS just for exercising. Because $200 TWS do sound lot better than $100 ones, but anything over $250, are flagships of various brands and they all sound just fine. It seems that a wired IEM are more like a mechanical product, and TWS are electrical products which upgrade much often than IEM.



Like most, I too am looking for the best SQ possible on my tight budget. 

I have (on sale now) my Meze Rai Solo having upgraded to the Advar. *Extremely* happy with them so I’m covered on the wired side. A pair of Shure Gen2 adapters would make them wireless but haven’t gone that route. 

While TWS will “always” be worse than wired, I could compare, as an example, my 130€ CA MT to a 130€ Fiio FH3. Fiio dances on the MT’s grave. The FH3 are VERY different to the Rai Solo. Maybe like the CA MT is to the XM3. Different technicalities, different sound, maybe down to preference. 



clerkpalmer said:


> I would go with your plan.  High end wired IEM for audio listening, and "middle class" TWS for on the go, gym etc.  I'd take a look at the Bose QCII in the "middle" price bracket you are looking at.



Yes, that’s my route. One has to adapt the needs to the tech. Wired for absolute SQ. Wireless for portability and features. These routes may be crossed with said bt adapters. 

As I’ve stated, I’m (not so) patiently waiting for “lossless” or similar over Bluetooth in order to redirect some funds to upgrade my CA MT. 
The MTW3, Free Byrd, TWX9 (in line with Hozay’s budget) haven’t fully convinced me. Being an iPhone user, I’ve _almost_ bit the bullet on APP2 several times. Since gen2 has “proven” SQ and they marry my Apple environment. 

... waiting for BTLE/LC3... waiting... waiting. We’re “not there yet”. 



erockg said:


> For perspective, I use a few high end IEMs, or may mid-high end (Thieaudio Clairvoyance/Shure SE846) with a Shure TW2 adapter and they're stellar.  IMO, they DO sound better than my high end TWS.  Plus, if you want to go wired, you have the option.  Best of all worlds.  Just took me a while to find a few IEMs that I really love.



Curious how the SE846, Monarch mkII, Clairvoyance sound with the TW2 vs wired... should I get the TW2 for my Advar or would I be missing much. I don’t mind the wire while at home. And using the adapters outside might be cumbersome, no? Rather a simple TWS for outside? I can’t get both, meaning adapters and new TWS.


----------



## tiagopinto

Gilroypro said:


> I beg to differ. I own the Beoplay EX and other top TWS. The best sounding TWS to me imo are the Nuratrue Pro



Wow.


----------



## Hozay

tiagopinto said:


> Like most, I too am looking for the best SQ possible on my tight budget.
> 
> I have (on sale now) my Meze Rai Solo having upgraded to the Advar. *Extremely* happy with them so I’m covered on the wired side. A pair of Shure Gen2 adapters would make them wireless but haven’t gone that route.
> 
> ...


Especially MTW3 is on sale now and is just half of the price of TWX9/EX/Fokus pro/Nuratrue pro. IMO those premium ones aren't twice as good as MTW3. And yea LE/LC3 can be game changing. Less latency for gaming and more battery life, better SQ. And I am guessing there will be more TWS integrate DAC like Fiio FW5.


----------



## clerkpalmer

New toy day!  Nura Pro's just arrived from B&H.  What's the consensus - spatial audio on or off?


----------



## SynaestheticA

cYxFrag said:


> How do you rate fiio fw5 vs Nuratrue Pro? What are the differences in sound?


I'll have the Nura soon I'll let you know


----------



## DantoIzzo

clerkpalmer said:


> New toy day!  Nura Pro's just arrived from B&H.  What's the consensus - spatial audio on or off?


Just curious, did you ever hear from the Apple Store about the the first airpod pro was legit or did you already sent it back to discountstore?


----------



## SynaestheticA

Update on the Final ZE8000

The sound has become quite addicting. Listening to other buds has them feeling empty and thin.

They need EQ for sure and the in app EQ is next to useless. Just hardly changes a thing, Final should really improve this as I used wavelet for the first time and it made a giant difference.

So the buds are more than capable of handling EQ, it's simply an app thing. 

Band and live music sounds the best, but anything you might deem as 'liquid' is also amazing due to the fullness of the sound. Drum and bass, Dubstep, trap etc. 

There is a real feeling of being in front of a stage rather than in the recording studio.

At first I was bouncing between these and fw5 but now I can't listen to anything else. 

I'm also used to looking like a Zoid so the style has now become fun rather than attention seeking or what have you.


----------



## clerkpalmer

DantoIzzo said:


> Just curious, did you ever hear from the Apple Store about the the first airpod pro was legit or did you already sent it back to discountstore?


No word from Apple yet.


----------



## Gilroypro

clerkpalmer said:


> New toy day!  Nura Pro's just arrived from B&H.  What's the consensus - spatial audio on or off?


Depends. If you have a device that supports Aptx lossless, leave spatial audio off..


SynaestheticA said:


> Update on the Final ZE8000
> 
> The sound has become quite addicting. Listening to other buds has them feeling empty and thin.
> 
> ...


Was thinking of checking these out but the design is too tall than what I'm used to


----------



## C_Lindbergh

Were will I be able to buy the  Final ZE8000 in Europe? Can't find a "dealers" page on the website.


----------



## erockg

clerkpalmer said:


> New toy day!  Nura Pro's just arrived from B&H.  What's the consensus - spatial audio on or off?


I have it on.


----------



## erockg

So, been waiting for these UE drops.  The Cyberweek deal was just too good to pass up. UE threw in a charging pad I didn't need and gave me 25% off.  I'm a sucker for fitted IEMs.  Going to have some fun today...


----------



## C_Lindbergh

erockg said:


> So, been waiting for these UE drops.  The Cyberweek deal was just too good to pass up. UE threw in a charging pad I didn't need and gave me 25% off.  I'm a sucker for fitted IEMs.  Going to have some fun today...



I'm a sucker for that type of design! Transparent  

But...Bluetooth 4.2 and only SBC? What? Are these fairly new?


----------



## erockg (Wednesday at 5:04 PM)

C_Lindbergh said:


> I'm a sucker for that type of design! Transparent
> 
> But...Bluetooth 4.2 and only SBC? What? Are these fairly new?


Yes, they're new-er.  I balked at the specs too until I read some reviews.  Took a shot.  But I have to admit, they're tuned very well.  Clarity and soundstage is what I'd expect from UE.  Great sub-bass.  Fit is spot on, maybe slightly off in one ear but they can tweak if I wanted (still deciding).  Transparency is great.  Been taking calls, no issues.  I'm on an iPhone, so the higher end codec aren't important to me.


----------



## clerkpalmer

erockg said:


> I have it on.


Yeah - they sound noticeably better with it on.  Just wanted to make sure it wasn't just me.


----------



## SynaestheticA (Wednesday at 7:07 PM)

C_Lindbergh said:


> Were will I be able to buy the  Final ZE8000 in Europe? Can't find a "dealers" page on the website.


Their own website still doesn't list them and the holding space on Head-fi reviews says shipping in January. Not sure how Australia got first dibs

I just went through all their UK dealers to check them out and phew, what's up with UK audio dealers websites? You get a landing page and then have to click through to a new website for shopping or product selection, and selection is grim.

There we go, found one for you in Poland
https://mp3store.pl/sluchawki/sluch...2022521192743003006//final-audio-ze8000-black

From their dealers page
https://snext-final.com/en/dealers/


----------



## clerkpalmer

clerkpalmer said:


> Yeah - they sound noticeably better with it on.  Just wanted to make sure it wasn't just me.


Does the fact that the "blob" of my hearing is shifted to the left and all out of round suggest my hearing is crap?


----------



## erockg

clerkpalmer said:


> Does the fact that the "blob" of my hearing is shifted to the left and all out of round suggest my hearing is crap?


I couldn't tell ya.  That happens to me on all my buds.  I'm like, "Is this off or is it me?"  I did just use the NTP on a webinar for work and heard a static in the right ear.  Whole time I kept wondering if it was the bud or the feed.  Drove me nuts.  Banking on it was the feed.


----------



## nekonhime

clerkpalmer said:


> Does the fact that the "blob" of my hearing is shifted to the left and all out of round suggest my hearing is crap?


Your ears will hear different sound from each other so there the possibility that you are just too worry


----------



## davescleveland

So I have the nura true. I use an iPhone. Is the only difference then the spatial audio addition? Is it worth it to upgrade or will it not be much different? Thanks in advance for the help. Fokus pro still the king to me over ex and Sennheiser 3.


----------



## erockg

davescleveland said:


> So I have the nura true. I use an iPhone. Is the only difference then the spatial audio addition? Is it worth it to upgrade or will it not be much different? Thanks in advance for the help. Fokus pro still the king to me over ex and Sennheiser 3.


Up to you.  For me, I had what you have, but find the Pro to be far superior.

https://help.nurasound.com/hc/en-us...difference-between-NuraTrue-Pro-and-NuraTrue-


----------



## Caipirina

I finally got a new pair of TWS, ever since the Bose QC2 (back in September was it?) I have been a good boy and behaved, I knew I would get the APP2 on my Canada trip. so, here I am, with new APP2 in my ears .. and yes, they perform pretty exactly as many reviewers say, ANC is similar as XM4 and a smidge under Bose, sound is improved .. I am very curious to A/B/C all 3 of them on my return flight ... 
So, yes, I am happy with them 
But one thing that keeps really bugging me (and that happens with all my airpods): I don't understand how most reviwers go gaga over the apple 'magic' and their automatic multipoint . in most of my cases this does nOT work in a pleasing way: 
a) I am listening to music on my phone, I open my mac which has nothing going on in terms of audio, still, it hijacks the connection without asking and I am without music. 
b) I start a movie on my mac and I had the airpods connected to it, now it asks me again 'i sense airpods nearby, want me to connect?' 
so, it changes its mood without any apparent reason .. did not expect I still have to manually switch things around ..


----------



## Hozay

clerkpalmer said:


> New toy day!  Nura Pro's just arrived from B&H.  What's the consensus - spatial audio on or off?


Mine arrived today as well. I found spatial can be good if you want a live experience, but not good for rock n roll. Their personalised sound is really good tho.


----------



## Hozay

C_Lindbergh said:


> Were will I be able to buy the  Final ZE8000 in Europe? Can't find a "dealers" page on the website.


I guess you cannot yet, I have been refreshing every retailer's page since last month. I got email from a distributor says they will have it but no idea when, so just have to wait.


----------



## clerkpalmer

Hozay said:


> Mine arrived today as well. I found spatial can be good if you want a live experience, but not good for rock n roll. Their personalised sound is really good tho


I could see how the spatial could make complex music a little congested/messy but I am digging it even for rock but I don't listen to that death metal either.


----------



## erockg

clerkpalmer said:


> I could see how the spatial could make complex music a little congested/messy but I am digging it even for rock but I don't listen to that death metal either.


I'm an old 80s/90s and now metalhead forever.  I love spatial for my hard stuff.  Different strokes for different folks for sure.  I like how it opens up the stage.


----------



## DantoIzzo (Wednesday at 9:01 PM)

UPDATE on my AirPod Pro 2 journey bought for $135 from https://www.discountstoresavings.com/.

After reading about the issues @clerkpalmer was having, I thought it wouldn't be legit.  But alas, it arrived today and everything seems legit.  In anticipation for it being fake, I've watched all of the real vs fake videos online.  By all accounts, it adds up to being the real deal.  Here are all the factors that I considered:

1. They sound good.  They have an identical sound profile as the pair I bought for my wife for her bday directly from an authorized dealer.
2. I was able to register the serial number on the website.  The serial number on the box matches the case (but the ear pieces have different serial numbers).  These are all the same for my wife's pair.
3. The packaging matches exactly that of my wife's pair.  The fonts are the same, same material for the security pull tab, same plastic wrapper on the case, same hard cardboard cradle, same eartips packaging, etc.  Everything is the same.
4. Spatial audio works and I was able to scan my head.
5. The noise cancellation and transparency modes are identical to my wife's pair (evidently these are dead giveaways, as fakes are not good).
6. The find my AirPod function and beep function work (another giveaway of fake if these functions don't work).

At bottom, if these are fakes, then they pretty much came out of Foxcon's factory, so I'm overall happy with the purchase.


----------



## clerkpalmer

DantoIzzo said:


> UPDATE on my AirPod Pro 2 journey bought for $135 from https://www.discountstoresavings.com/.
> 
> After reading about the issues @clerkpalmer was having, I thought it wouldn't be legit.  But alas, it arrived today and everything seems legit.  In anticipation for it being fake, I've watched all of the real vs fake videos online.  By all accounts, it adds up to being the real deal.  Here are all the factors that I considered:
> 
> ...


Glad to hear it. Regarding the serial number, does your iPhone indicate the warranty is in place?


----------



## clerkpalmer

DantoIzzo said:


> UPDATE on my AirPod Pro 2 journey bought for $135 from https://www.discountstoresavings.com/.
> 
> After reading about the issues @clerkpalmer was having, I thought it wouldn't be legit.  But alas, it arrived today and everything seems legit.  In anticipation for it being fake, I've watched all of the real vs fake videos online.  By all accounts, it adds up to being the real deal.  Here are all the factors that I considered:
> 
> ...


Sq is probably the most important factor. Mine had trouble connecting and sound was awful.


----------



## DantoIzzo

clerkpalmer said:


> Glad to hear it. Regarding the serial number, does your iPhone indicate the warranty is in place?


Yes it does. Also the app cycles through the correct serial numbers for the case and each ear bud.


----------



## clerkpalmer

DantoIzzo said:


> Yes it does. Also the app cycles through the correct serial numbers for the case and each ear bud.


Yeah sounds like you are good. My replacements arrive tomorrow. Waiting to hear from apple on the first set.


----------



## SynaestheticA

Hozay said:


> I guess you cannot yet, I have been refreshing every retailer's page since last month. I got email from a distributor says they will have it but no idea when, so just have to wait.



Did you see this retailer I found in Poland?

https://mp3store.pl/sluchawki/sluch...2022521192743003006//final-audio-ze8000-black

From their dealers page
https://snext-final.com/en/dealers/


----------



## Sam L

shooter said:


> I'd disagree, it depends what IEM and what TWS. Can happen 100 usd TWS can beat 200 usd IEM.


I was over generalizing a bit but there are plenty of $50 or under iems that are easily better than their $200+ tws counterparts. I just got my truthear zeros in a couple days ago. They are unmatched in terms of SQ compared to any tws, to my ears.


----------



## DantoIzzo

Sam L said:


> I was over generalizing a bit but there are plenty of $50 or under iems that are easily better than their $200+ tws counterparts. I just got my truthear zeros in a couple days ago. They are unmatched in terms of SQ compared to any tws, to my ears.


At a certain point thought I think there’s such thing as “good enough” and the convenience of TWS takes over. I love my the tonality of my Blessing 2 Dusk. But the AirPod Pro 2 is good enough and has waaay more functionality.


----------



## helmutcheese (Thursday at 6:46 AM)

*And another 2 reviews:*


----------



## nekonhime

Sam L said:


> I was over generalizing a bit but there are plenty of $50 or under iems that are easily better than their $200+ tws counterparts. I just got my truthear zeros in a couple days ago. They are unmatched in terms of SQ compared to any tws, to my ears.


I mean, do they have Bluetooth, anc, making phone calls without extension mics? Tws is not just about sq but other functions too and they keep improving the sq departments over the time with new codecs.


----------



## paddyberger

Slightly off topic but my son want some over the ear Bluetooth headphones for GBP50 or so. To use in gym. Is there an equivalent thread for this as I’ve not been able to locate to much content searching for Bluetooth in the Headphones. Id imagine there are plenty in here who have some in their collection by the looks of it! Thank you in advance.


----------



## helmutcheese

https://www.head-fi.org/forums/headphones-full-size.4/


----------



## clerkpalmer

paddyberger said:


> Slightly off topic but my son want some over the ear Bluetooth headphones for GBP50 or so. To use in gym. Is there an equivalent thread for this as I’ve not been able to locate to much content searching for Bluetooth in the Headphones. Id imagine there are plenty in here who have some in their collection by the looks of it! Thank you in advance.


Over ear for the gym can be tough since they fall off if you move.  I do see people rocking bose etc in the gym and always wonder how they stay put.  Maybe I'm just not cool enough to pull this off.


----------



## clerkpalmer

erockg said:


> But, you know, you could always flip them to cover some cost!


PX8 in the house.  GD these things are smoooothh!.  I think I'm in love.  Got them in the classifieds for $500.  Feels worth that price.

Turning to the Nuras, I'm torn.  They do sound good but if I'm being honest, I'm not sure they sound any better than the QCII to my ears.  In fact, they sound quite similar and the Bose offer that monster ANC on top.  I'd probably give the Nuras a very slight edge in SQ due largely to the spatial audio mode.  Maybe that would increase with the dongle.  More time needed.


----------



## helmutcheese (Thursday at 11:39 AM)

Since when did Bose sound good?

I have the QCii now and they sound poor (U shaped?), but I got for the ANC and if they would seal (I have the Extra Fit Kit), I could see if the ANC is that good but then again it has annoying white noise.

My old wired QC20's were better with their all-in-one earfin/tip instead of paper thin eartips.

Poor battery life esp. as they cut AAC bitrate down to try get longer, 192k is kind of lame and ANC or AMB no OFF.


Windows Vol13 so well below the claimed 6hours AAC+ANC @50% Vol the buds died within 2min of each other so made it one screen

When/if these get the aptX Lossless update it will be more like 4 hours if you're lucky.


----------



## clerkpalmer

helmutcheese said:


> Since when did Bose sound good?
> 
> I have the QCii now and they sound poor (U shaped?), but I got for the ANC and if they would seal (I have the Extra Fit Kit), I could see if the ANC is that good but then again it has annoying white noise.
> 
> ...


Hard for me to believe anyone would consider the SQ of the QCII to be "poor".  I could understand, colored or not particularly accurate or not tuned to my liking but poor?  Not sure what that would be based on.  Everyone gripes about the sucked mids on Bose - just bump them on the EQ.  To each their own - as an all arounder they are really hard to beat.  Interesting on the bit rate however.


----------



## helmutcheese (Thursday at 11:59 AM)

Bose and Sony are not good sounding IMO and many say the same (they have their own kind of sound) they are about ANC, if you like SQ go with others like MTW3 etc

Soundpeats did the same with their new Mini Pro HS (LDAC), the AAC bitrate is even less (156 AFAIR) < I would need pair them AGAIN and see for sure as I forget.


----------



## clerkpalmer

helmutcheese said:


> Bose and Sony are not good sounding IMO and many say the same (they have their own kind of sound) they are about ANC, if you like SQ go with others like MTW3 etc
> 
> Soundpeats did the same with their new Mini Pro HS (LDAC), the AAC bitrate is even less (156 AFAIR) < I would need pair them AGAIN and see for sure as I forget.


Are you sure the throttling of the bit rate is not tied to the source rather than the headphones?


----------



## helmutcheese (Thursday at 12:42 PM)

The source is Windows 11+Intel AX210.

You can see the screenshot, that is what the device actually supports internally (so ignore what it is currently connected at externally), I can post my FiiO Neckband at 300-330k AAC (both supported and actually connected at) if you like.

*Soundpeats Sonic Pro @ 256k*:


----------



## clerkpalmer

helmutcheese said:


> The source is Windows 11+Intel AX210.
> 
> You can see the screenshot, that is what the device actually supports internally (so ignore what it is currently connected at externally), I can post my FiiO Neckband at 300-330k AAC (both supported and actually connected at) if you like.


I trust you. Apple only supports 256 anyway. I wonder how this would look on an iOS device.


----------



## helmutcheese (Thursday at 12:41 PM)

Would not matter if the device only support that then that is the limit, just we had no real way to tell before.

Sonic Pro's are bang on 256k but I never noticed before they seem to support AAC-LC (not on official specs), though I have no way to test this, and I will check my Soundpeats H1 Prem's later in case the same.


----------



## BooleanBones

clerkpalmer said:


> PX8 in the house.  GD these things are smoooothh!.  I think I'm in love.  Got them in the classifieds for $500.  Feels worth that price.


Love mine. Congrats.


----------



## clerkpalmer

helmutcheese said:


> Would not matter if the device only support that then that is the limit, just we had no real way to tell before.
> 
> Sonic Pro's are bang on 256k but I never noticed before they seem to support AAC-LC (not on official specs), though I have no way to test this, and I will check my Soundpeats H1 Prem's later in case the same.


I’m skeptical that Bose caps its bitrate at below 256. But I suppose it’s not impossible. Might be a bit of a controversy if that was discovered.


----------



## helmutcheese (Thursday at 12:47 PM)

The proof is in the pudding as they say, I only sue AAC on PC for longer battery life to try get them to last overnight for sleep, I would choose SBC/aptX over it otherwise.,


----------



## clerkpalmer

helmutcheese said:


> The proof is in the pudding as thye say.


Id need to see the same thing on an IOS device before I was convinced.  I may email them about it.


----------



## helmutcheese

They may BS you, tell them SoundPeats are doing the same now.


----------



## clerkpalmer

helmutcheese said:


> They may BS you, tell them SoundPeats are doing the same now.


Okay, I'm convinced you are on to something.  Nice work - well done.  Im kind of surprised no one else has discovered this.  You are a true pioneer!

Reminds me of when we all learned that certain TWS were only using AAC Aptx to connect to the master and then Slave to Master was SBC.  Looking over the Bose specs, all it says it is supports AAC it doesn't reference a bitrate.  So you are probably right that they are capped to increase battery life which, if true is BS.  That said, they sure sound good to me anyway so it probably is more of a hypothetical problem in the real world  Since they are upgrading to Aptx Adaptive, it will be interesting to see how they implement that.


----------



## helmutcheese (Thursday at 12:59 PM)

I 100% agree for Apple users it is not ideal and as I said when/if they add aptX Adaptive/Lossless the battery will tank (I have not tested with SBC long enough to see how long they last).

I have just been told the above Sonic PRO is not AAC-LC it just looks like that as the number is 6 digits so really says 264,630bps


----------



## erockg

clerkpalmer said:


> PX8 in the house.  GD these things are smoooothh!.  I think I'm in love.  Got them in the classifieds for $500.  Feels worth that price.
> 
> Turning to the Nuras, I'm torn.  They do sound good but if I'm being honest, I'm not sure they sound any better than the QCII to my ears.  In fact, they sound quite similar and the Bose offer that monster ANC on top.  I'd probably give the Nuras a very slight edge in SQ due largely to the spatial audio mode.  Maybe that would increase with the dongle.  More time needed.


Yes!  Love my PX8.  

Funny, I actually got rid of my QC2 because I prefer my Nuratrue Pro.  Maybe retune them?  The sub-bass blows away the Bose.  That said, I'm obsessed with my UE Drops for the last 24 hours.


----------



## clerkpalmer

erockg said:


> Yes!  Love my PX8.
> 
> Funny, I actually got rid of my QC2 because I prefer my Nuratrue Pro.  Maybe retune them?  The sub-bass blows away the Bose.  That said, I'm obsessed with my UE Drops for the last 24 hours.


I'm with you on the subbass.  I'm running them at +1.   Plus the Bose are ruined for me now mentally knowing that they are capped at 196.  Junk.


----------



## Bhelpoori

helmutcheese said:


> The source is Windows 11+Intel AX210.
> 
> You can see the screenshot, that is what the device actually supports internally (so ignore what it is currently connected at externally), I can post my FiiO Neckband at 300-330k AAC (both supported and actually connected at) if you like.
> 
> *Soundpeats Sonic Pro @ 256k*:


They are two different AAC encoding types : first one is variable bit rate and the second is fixed bit rate. 

I’d also beware about what bps is advertised here with variable bit rate as there are different ways to advertise and calculate it.


----------



## Bhelpoori

helmutcheese said:


> Since when did Bose sound good?
> 
> I have the QCii now and they sound poor (U shaped?), but I got for the ANC and if they would seal (I have the Extra Fit Kit), I could see if the ANC is that good but then again it has annoying white noise.
> 
> ...


No VBR (variable bit rate) is exactly on a number like this… Anyways, the calc of VBR at 264 of the Soundpeats and 192 of the Bose could actually be the same. The 256k of Apple AAC is actually not 256k over Bluetooth because it is VBR and could also be the same….

I think that the Windows tool just takes it from the A2DP advertisement of capabilities anyways, so that may not reflect what is actually happening over the air as well. It is after all, just a guide not a commitment. 

AAC over 256k is a waste of bits. AAC isn’t really a bandwidth driven codec but a tool driven codec. This is unlike SBC or AptX Classic where each kbps can matter. 

And welcome to the wonderful world of audio (and video) codecs.


----------



## clerkpalmer

Bhelpoori said:


> No VBR (variable bit rate) is exactly on a number like this… Anyways, the calc of VBR at 264 of the Soundpeats and 192 of the Bose could actually be the same. The 256k of Apple AAC is actually not 256k over Bluetooth because it is VBR and could also be the same….
> 
> I think that the Windows tool just takes it from the A2DP advertisement of capabilities anyways, so that may not reflect what is actually happening over the air as well. It is after all, just a guide not a commitment.
> 
> ...


Really?  Cool. I love them again.


----------



## helmutcheese (Thursday at 2:08 PM)

Still *Apples to Apples* it states *VBR 192k* and the other earbuds states *VBR 256k *be it a waste or not it is what Apple users expect to connect at and in all the earbuds I have had that support AAC going back years now I have only now twice recently seen it that low and I would bet it is for the battery life claim as these models were not very good to begin with in late 2022.


----------



## Bhelpoori

clerkpalmer said:


> I'm with you on the subbass.  I'm running them at +1.   Plus the Bose are ruined for me now mentally knowing that they are capped at 196.  Junk.


Please see my previous messages. 

196 is a kinda average perhaps of a variable number since if I told my marketing people it was somewhere between 140 and 264kbps, dependent on the music input, they would go “What!!!” And make an average up. Hence why you see 256kbps AAC advertised which is actually almost the maximum it can be. 

Don’t say they are junk because of it… as you are saying all TWS are junk. 

Whatever, given the amount of DSP and other wizardry going on in the Bose, the relationship with the input codec type and absolute speed is irrelevant.


----------



## helmutcheese

I understand CBR vs VBR but *ALL* AAC earbuds I have had so far are VBR 256k in that App (exception being high end at like FiiO Neckband at 300) and these are VBR 192k.

*DO NOT* make up thing I never said as I never said any TWS were junk above so less of the BS.

I do not care for AAC but IMO the Bose QCII I commented on are not good sounding and the poor fit/seal is no good for ANC and it has a white noise and lacking overall.


----------



## clerkpalmer

Bhelpoori said:


> Please see my previous messages.
> 
> 196 is a kinda average perhaps of a variable number since if I told my marketing people it was somewhere between 140 and 264kbps, dependent on the music input, they would go “What!!!” And make an average up. Hence why you see 256kbps AAC advertised which is actually almost the maximum it can be.
> 
> ...


Yeah, I was just being sarcastic.  I do appreciate your input though.  My crappy ears couldn't tell the difference anyway.


----------



## helmutcheese

He is talking to me not you and anymore his of his BS rants and insinuations he can be set to ignore.


----------



## clerkpalmer

helmutcheese said:


> I do not care for AAC but IMO the Bose QCII I commented on are not good sounding and the poor fit/seal is no good for ANC and it has a white noise and lacking overall.


No issues with seal or fit for me.  It's interesting because at first I thought the Nuras would block more noise than the Bose because they seal off better but nope, the Bose, even with their semi open fit plus ANC absolutely destroy the Nura in terms of ANC performance and background noise.


----------



## Bhelpoori

helmutcheese said:


> Still *Apples to Apples* it states *VBR 192k* and the other earbuds states *VBR 256k *be it a waste or not it is what Apple users expect to connect at and in all the earbuds I have had that support AAC going back years now I have only now twice recently seen it that low and I would bet it is for the battery life claim as these models were not very good to begin with in late 2022.


It depends how you calculate VBR. This is something not agreed to and you can advertise whatever you want in A2DP. I can make a case  for both: 192 is actually close to the average, 256 is close to the maximum. Whatever, VBR means that the encoder will vary and determine the speed, so you are unlikely to see 256 and much more likely to see around 200…

A2DP numbers won’t determine battery life.

My Bose last near 7hrs each side unlike my App2 even though they are both spec’ed the same at 6hrs. I’d guess there is something else going on here maybe because of the fit?


----------



## clerkpalmer

helmutcheese said:


> He is talking to me not you and anymore his of his BS rants and insinuations he can be set to ignore.


He quoted me not you so I don't think so.  We're all friends here and the debate is informative and spirited.


----------



## clerkpalmer

Bhelpoori said:


> It depends how you calculate VBR. This is something not agreed to and you can advertise whatever you want in A2DP. I can make a case  for both: 192 is actually close to the average, 256 is close to the maximum. Whatever, VBR means that the encoder will vary and determine the speed, so you are unlikely to see 256 and much more likely to see around 200…
> 
> A2DP numbers won’t determine battery life.
> 
> My Bose last near 7hrs each side unlike my App2 even though they are both spec’ed the same at 6hrs. I’d guess there is something else going on here maybe because of the fit?


I agree.  My Bose are battery champs.  Like I never need to charge them.  My APP2 need charging constantly.  I wonder if OP has a faulty set of Bose.


----------



## Hozay

SynaestheticA said:


> Did you see this retailer I found in Poland?
> 
> https://mp3store.pl/sluchawki/sluch...2022521192743003006//final-audio-ze8000-black
> 
> ...


I did but I can't read Polish and I gave up on finding out if they ship to UK. Its already Jan so I will just wait for UK retailers. At most Germany Thomann coz I know this one definitely ship to UK with extended warranty.


----------



## Hozay

clerkpalmer said:


> I could see how the spatial could make complex music a little congested/messy but I am digging it even for rock but I don't listen to that death metal either.


I have to say after testing its SQ, ANC, and everything I need, it is the best TWS I have tried by far. EX deliver similar SQ out of box but its $50 more. I doubt if the new ones coming in early 2023 can beat this one. It sounds even better than my $250 wired IEM.


----------



## Hozay

paddyberger said:


> Slightly off topic but my son want some over the ear Bluetooth headphones for GBP50 or so. To use in gym. Is there an equivalent thread for this as I’ve not been able to locate to much content searching for Bluetooth in the Headphones. Id imagine there are plenty in here who have some in their collection by the looks of it! Thank you in advance.


for gym use you need water resistant or even waterproof ideally, but over ear headphones barely are water resistant. There are old models from brands like audio technica produce over ear headphone with hooks, but it was 10 years ago and its not sweat proof either.


----------



## Hozay

helmutcheese said:


> Bose and Sony are not good sounding IMO and many say the same (they have their own kind of sound) they are about ANC, if you like SQ go with others like MTW3 etc
> 
> Soundpeats did the same with their new Mini Pro HS (LDAC), the AAC bitrate is even less (156 AFAIR) < I would need pair them AGAIN and see for sure as I forget.


Bose sounds good until you listen to headphones from other brands. not joking coz my first headphone was Bose quiet comfort 3 ( the model in 2006) and I was like WOW when I turned on the noise cancelling. Had it for 3 years then I got a B&O over ear, hmmmm, not gonna buy Bose anymore.


----------



## cresny

clerkpalmer said:


> PX8 in the house.  GD these things are smoooothh!.  I think I'm in love.  Got them in the classifieds for $500.  Feels worth that price.
> 
> Turning to the Nuras, I'm torn.  They do sound good but if I'm being honest, I'm not sure they sound any better than the QCII to my ears.  In fact, they sound quite similar and the Bose offer that monster ANC on top.  I'd probably give the Nuras a very slight edge in SQ due largely to the spatial audio mode.  Maybe that would increase with the dongle.  More time needed.


If you ever need warranty service from B&W you will need the receipt or proof of purchase from an authorized seller. Just FYI because this one got by me.


----------



## paddyberger (Thursday at 4:12 PM)

helmutcheese said:


> https://www.head-fi.org/forums/headphones-full-size.4/


Thanks, that’s exactly where I searched. Bluetooth not too popular.


----------



## paddyberger

clerkpalmer said:


> Over ear for the gym can be tough since they fall off if you move.  I do see people rocking bose etc in the gym and always wonder how they stay put.  Maybe I'm just not cool enough to pull this off.


I agree, I’ve told him but he’s 15, he knows better than us.


----------



## nekonhime

paddyberger said:


> I agree, I’ve told him but he’s 15, he knows better than us.


I guess cheap skullcandy headphone will do or the earbuds with hooks


----------



## clerkpalmer

nekonhime said:


> I guess cheap skullcandy headphone will do or the earbuds with hooks


I believe Adidas may make an over ear gym headphone that can handle some sweat.  Under Armor as well.  There are options.


----------



## clerkpalmer

cresny said:


> If you ever need warranty service from B&W you will need the receipt or proof of purchase from an authorized seller. Just FYI because this one got by me.


Yes, I did consider this in buying used.  I have run into this before and considered it but the savings was worth it.


----------



## nekonhime

clerkpalmer said:


> I believe Adidas may make an over ear gym headphone that can handle some sweat.  Under Armor as well.  There are options.


But those go over his budget (50 pound I believes)


----------



## clerkpalmer

nekonhime said:


> But those go over his budget (50 pound I believes)


Budget Schmudget.


----------



## paddyberger

clerkpalmer said:


> Budget Schmudget.


He wants to pay himself, he’s a good lad.


----------



## nekonhime

paddyberger said:


> He wants to pay himself, he’s a good lad.


A proud man indeed


----------



## scubaphish

Speaking of budgets, when this month do we think the Mistique will come out?


----------



## erockg

clerkpalmer said:


> Budget Schmudget.


There's always the classifieds.


----------



## clerkpalmer

paddyberger said:


> He wants to pay himself, he’s a good lad.


I've never met a budget that wasn't meant to be broken when it comes to headphones.


erockg said:


> There's always the classifieds.


It's a Major Award!


----------



## Caipirina (Thursday at 5:42 PM)

helmutcheese said:


> Since when did Bose sound good?
> 
> I have the QCii now and they sound poor (U shaped?), but I got for the ANC and if they would seal (I have the Extra Fit Kit), I could see if the ANC is that good but then again it has annoying white noise.


This is the first time I hear of this extra fit kit! I need this! Will try to order from Bose JP ... thanks for bringing this to my attention (how did you find out?)

Edit: and ordered ... but how silly: They would only let me use a CC with billing address in Japan, can't change country ... things like that infuriate me. Now I had to use wife's card which means i have to inform her about a 10$ charge  ah well ...


----------



## nekonhime

Seem like the fokus pro sold out pretty much every major site beside ebay ( go up to 700$, jesus people)


----------



## clerkpalmer

Hozay said:


> I have to say after testing its SQ, ANC, and everything I need, it is the best TWS I have tried by far. EX deliver similar SQ out of box but its $50 more. I doubt if the new ones coming in early 2023 can beat this one. It sounds even better than my $250 wired IEM.


Anyone adding EQ on top of the personal sound profile?


----------



## clerkpalmer

nekonhime said:


> Seem like the fokus pro sold out pretty much every major site beside ebay ( go up to 700$, jesus people)


I’ll sell you erocksgs for $700.


----------



## ZMan2k2 (Thursday at 7:29 PM)

clerkpalmer said:


>


Sorry, trying to do this on a phone on vacation.


----------



## ZMan2k2

clerkpalmer said:


> I’ll sell you erocksgs for $700.


----------



## Hozay

nekonhime said:


> Seem like the fokus pro sold out pretty much every major site beside ebay ( go up to 700$, jesus people)


There is one in London but idk if you can buy it, try search in Harrods. I asked its their last pair.


----------



## Hozay

clerkpalmer said:


> Anyone adding EQ on top of the personal sound profile?


I didn't do any EQ as the profile tech works well. And I also tried to create another file for my wife, it sounds completely different. Technology is fun. You can't choose how another profile sounds, you just have to try with different person to know this TWS can sound in many ways.


----------



## BooleanBones

clerkpalmer said:


> I’ll sell you erocksgs for $700.


I'll sell mine for much less, maybe I should go check out ebay


----------



## clerkpalmer

Replacement APP2 are legit. Connected properly, showed up in setting etc. sound is on point. The plot thickens because apple repair said the original pair is fixed and ready for pickup. I haven’t gone yet. I’m almost positive they were fakes. What are odds Apple just replaced them for me anyway?


----------



## erockg

clerkpalmer said:


> Replacement APP2 are legit. Connected properly, showed up in setting etc. sound is on point. The plot thickens because apple repair said the original pair is fixed and ready for pickup. I haven’t gone yet. I’m almost positive they were fakes. What are odds Apple just replaced them for me anyway?


I wonder who will be waiting for you at pickup?  Maybe you'll get frisked.


----------



## clerkpalmer

erockg said:


> I wonder who will be waiting for you at pickup?  Maybe you'll get frisked.


I'm slightly concerned I will be arrested for trafficking fake airpods.


----------



## erockg

BooleanBones said:


> I'll sell mine for much less, maybe I should go check out ebay


Do it!  I was there a few weeks ago.  Getting ready for my Mystique.


----------



## erockg

clerkpalmer said:


> I'm slightly concerned I will be arrested for trafficking fake airpods.


That's what I'm gettin' at!


----------



## nekonhime

clerkpalmer said:


> I’ll sell you erocksgs for $700.


In my head was like: I will sell you "erocksg" for $700


Hozay said:


> There is one in London but idk if you can buy it, try search in Harrods. I asked its their last pair.


Seem to be sold out unfortunately.


----------



## Phaethon

Just unpacked my CA Orbit and it is wow. I have the B&O ex, Bose QC II, ATH-TWX9, Beyerdynamic Free Bird, xm4, and the Fokus Pro. The only real competitor is Fokus Pro. And these beat them hands down. But… it’s a really a good thing the sound is so breathtaking, because the IOS app just crashes and so I can’t explore the EQ. I’m sure the app will be fixed pretty soon. 
I am a real CA fanboy and these truly have the magic I hear in my Dorado 2020 and Ara. Just wow


----------



## erockg

Phaethon said:


> Just unpacked my CA Orbit and it is wow. I have the B&O ex, Bose QC II, ATH-TWX9, Beyerdynamic Free Bird, xm4, and the Fokus Pro. The only real competitor is Fokus Pro. And these beat them hands down. But… it’s a really a good thing the sound is so breathtaking, because the IOS app just crashes and so I can’t explore the EQ. I’m sure the app will be fixed pretty soon.
> I am a real CA fanboy and these truly have the magic I hear in my Dorado 2020 and Ara. Just wow


I didn't have any issues with the app and I'm on iOS too.  Did have issues with ghost taps and they'd randomly pause on me or skip tracks.  Drove me nuts.  Everything working good for you there?  I'm going to reorder a replacement soon...  Did they prompt you to do a firmware update out of the box?  The soundstage is great, same with the sub-bass etc.  Great instrument separation too.


----------



## Phaethon

erockg said:


> I didn't have any issues with the app and I'm on iOS too.  Did have issues with ghost taps and they'd randomly pause on me or skip tracks.  Drove me nuts.  Everything working good for you there?  I'm going to reorder a replacement soon...  Did they prompt you to do a firmware update out of the box?  The soundstage is great, same with the sub-bass etc.  Great instrument separation too


The buds chime but not sure how to do a firmware update without the app. The app crashes whether the buds are on or off; paired or not. I’ve “forgotten” them in Bluetooth, uninstalled and reinstalled the app and nothing changes. I’ve just been listening so I haven’t had any of the issues you mention.


----------



## erockg

Phaethon said:


> The buds chime but not sure how to do a firmware update without the app. The app crashes whether the buds are on or off; paired or not. I’ve “forgotten” them in Bluetooth, uninstalled and reinstalled the app and nothing changes. I’ve just been listening so I haven’t had any of the issues you mention.


Can you install the app on an iPad or M1 Mac to test? CA are very responsive to emails.  I’m sure they’d try and help.


----------



## Phaethon

erockg said:


> Can you install the app on an iPad or M1 Mac to test? CA are very responsive to emails.  I’m sure they’d try and help.


I’ve got both to try. Thanks for the ideas!


----------



## Phaethon

Phaethon said:


> I’ve got both to try. Thanks for the ideas!


Got it. Seems maybe it wanted to be on Wi-Fi network instead of cellular. Thanks for the advice!


----------



## nekonhime

The mackie mp 20tws have a major battery imbalance issue as one side (right) is 50 percents and the other side (left) is low on battery


----------



## tiagopinto

tiagopinto said:


> Like most, I too am looking for the best SQ possible on my tight budget.
> 
> I have (on sale now) my Meze Rai Solo having upgraded to the Advar. *Extremely* happy with them so I’m covered on the wired side. A pair of Shure Gen2 adapters would make them wireless but haven’t gone that route.
> 
> ...



@erockg would you please comment on the last paragraph? Thx.


----------



## tiagopinto

Phaethon said:


> Just unpacked my CA Orbit and it is wow. I have the B&O ex, Bose QC II, ATH-TWX9, Beyerdynamic Free Bird, xm4, and the Fokus Pro. The only real competitor is Fokus Pro. And these beat them hands down. But… it’s a really a good thing the sound is so breathtaking, because the IOS app just crashes and so I can’t explore the EQ. I’m sure the app will be fixed pretty soon.
> I am a real CA fanboy and these truly have the magic I hear in my Dorado 2020 and Ara. Just wow



Now my curiosity has been sparked again on these.



erockg said:


> I didn't have any issues with the app and I'm on iOS too.  Did have issues with ghost taps and they'd randomly pause on me or skip tracks.  Drove me nuts.  Everything working good for you there?  I'm going to reorder a replacement soon...  Did they prompt you to do a firmware update out of the box?  The soundstage is great, same with the sub-bass etc.  Great instrument separation too.



I had discarded my interest when I read erockgs comments.

So, are they top notch then? Close to EX and NFP in sound? They are in my “expected” budget at 250€... no extra features though. And that really bugs me in TWS.

Eager for both your comments.


----------



## Hozay

nekonhime said:


> In my head was like: I will sell you "erocksg" for $700
> 
> Seem to be sold out unfortunately.


https://www.hifiheadphones.co.uk/ is still selling it, but idk if they ship out side of UK


----------



## erockg

tiagopinto said:


> @erockg would you please comment on the last paragraph? Thx.


Sure, missed that.  I let my MK2 go, but still have my SE846 and Clairvoyance (repurchased them after realizing I liked the signature better than the MK2).  Sadly, I never use them wired.  I’m a wireless guy.  I do love the way they sound.  I can't speak to the Advar on the TW2 or if the TW2 will have enough power for them.  For instance, the Clairvoyance need a bit more power (volume) on the TW2, whereas the SE846 do not.  The TW2 can be used with EQ which is nice, so you can bump up the db.  I got a good deal (50% off) on the Fostex TM2C which I prefer over the UTWS5, so I repurchased them.  I left the TW2 on the SE846 and plan to put the Clairvoyance on the TM2C.  Yes, they can be cumbersome, but depending on my mood, it's worth it.  TWS have come a long way, but the IEM with an adapter route still does sound better imo.


----------



## Tommy C

erockg said:


> Sure, missed that.  I let my MK2 go, but still have my SE846 and Clairvoyance (repurchased them after realizing I liked the signature better than the MK2).  Sadly, I never use them wired.  I’m a wireless guy.  I do love the way they sound.  I can't speak to the Advar on the TW2 or if the TW2 will have enough power for them.  For instance, the Clairvoyance need a bit more power (volume) on the TW2, whereas the SE846 do not.  The TW2 can be used with EQ which is nice, so you can bump up the db.  I got a good deal (50% off) on the Fostex TM2C which I prefer over the UTWS5, so I repurchased them.  I left the TW2 on the SE846 and plan to put the Clairvoyance on the TM2C.  Yes, they can be cumbersome, but depending on my mood, it's worth it.  TWS have come a long way, but the IEM with an adapter route still does sound better imo.


+1 for the TW2. Everything I put on them so far sounded great. Even the SE215 Special Edition are solid. Granted, I haven’t tried the high end TWS by B&O and Noble because I’m very happy with my setup.


----------



## scubaphish (Friday at 2:24 PM)

tiagopinto said:


> Now my curiosity has been sparked again on these.
> 
> 
> 
> ...





tiagopinto said:


> Eager for both your comments.


As tempted as I am, I feel a little burned by my NFP purchase. Don’t get me wrong, I love them, they sound fantastic. But the lack of transparency mode and poor mic really take away from their usability. Not sure I’d personally take that path again.
That said…man do I want to try them!


----------



## clerkpalmer

Spent some additional time with the Nuras and I am beginning to drink the cool aid.  Compared to the Bose, everything is tighter and more refined with the exception that the Nura's can hit very low - almost like there is a subwoofer in the system.  They really feel like a set speakers are in your head.  I've run the sound profile a couple of times and both times they came out very similar.  I'm interested in trying them with the dongle to see if things can get even better.  My biggest disappointment is the ANC is typical throwaway ANC - meaning not really good.  So, if I'm using a fan like I do when I exercise, I'm reaching for the Bose.  For any other use, the Nura with immersion plus 1 and spatial on delivers an outstanding speaker like experience.

Turning to the APP2, it must be me, but I really do not like the way the sound.  I am surprised at the amount of love they get for having good sound.  They sound thin and tinny to me.  Coming from the Nuras to the APP2 is a jarring experience.  I'd never ever pick them for music.  That said, a lot of people like them a lot so I guess it's a preference thing or maybe Apple loyalty.


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## erockg

clerkpalmer said:


> Spent some additional time with the Nuras and I am beginning to drink the cool aid.  Compared to the Bose, everything is tighter and more refined with the exception that the Nura's can hit very low - almost like there is a subwoofer in the system.  They really feel like a set speakers are in your head.  I've run the sound profile a couple of times and both times they came out very similar.  I'm interested in trying them with the dongle to see if things can get even better.  My biggest disappointment is the ANC is typical throwaway ANC - meaning not really good.  So, if I'm using a fan like I do when I exercise, I'm reaching for the Bose.  For any other use, the Nura with immersion plus 1 and spatial on delivers an outstanding speaker like experience.
> 
> Turning to the APP2, it must be me, but I really do not like the way the sound.  I am surprised at the amount of love they get for having good sound.  They sound thin and tinny to me.  Coming from the Nuras to the APP2 is a jarring experience.  I'd never ever pick them for music.  That said, a lot of people like them a lot so I guess it's a preference thing or maybe Apple loyalty.


I'm on +3 lol.  EQ'd the bass down a bit.  I'm a sucker for that sub-bass.  My head might explode?  I'm having better luck with the ANC here.  Using the biggest tips and the no wing insert.  I don't even twist to lock them in my ears, just push them in.  Not stellar, but better than the EX, which isn't saying much.


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## Hozay

clerkpalmer said:


> Spent some additional time with the Nuras and I am beginning to drink the cool aid.  Compared to the Bose, everything is tighter and more refined with the exception that the Nura's can hit very low - almost like there is a subwoofer in the system.  They really feel like a set speakers are in your head.  I've run the sound profile a couple of times and both times they came out very similar.  I'm interested in trying them with the dongle to see if things can get even better.  My biggest disappointment is the ANC is typical throwaway ANC - meaning not really good.  So, if I'm using a fan like I do when I exercise, I'm reaching for the Bose.  For any other use, the Nura with immersion plus 1 and spatial on delivers an outstanding speaker like experience.
> 
> Turning to the APP2, it must be me, but I really do not like the way the sound.  I am surprised at the amount of love they get for having good sound.  They sound thin and tinny to me.  Coming from the Nuras to the APP2 is a jarring experience.  I'd never ever pick them for music.  That said, a lot of people like them a lot so I guess it's a preference thing or maybe Apple loyalty.


If you rly want to hear something different, try run the profile in someone else' ears. My partner's profile is like bass+6 to me.


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## clerkpalmer

erockg said:


> I'm on +3 lol.  EQ'd the bass down a bit.  I'm a sucker for that sub-bass.  My head might explode?  I'm having better luck with the ANC here.  Using the biggest tips and the no wing insert.  I don't even twist to lock them in my ears, just push them in.  Not stellar, but better than the EX, which isn't saying much.


I don’t think the wing tips are doing anything for me either. The fit is surprisingly good.


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## erockg

erockg said:


> So, been waiting for these UE drops.  The Cyberweek deal was just too good to pass up. UE threw in a charging pad I didn't need and gave me 25% off.  I'm a sucker for fitted IEMs.  Going to have some fun today...





erockg said:


> Yes, they're new-er.  I balked at the specs too until I read some reviews.  Took a shot.  But I have to admit, they're tuned very well.  Clarity and soundstage is what I'd expect from UE.  Great sub-bass.  Fit is spot on, maybe slightly off in one ear but they can tweak if I wanted (still deciding).  Transparency is great.  Been taking calls, no issues.  I'm on an iPhone, so the higher end codec aren't important to me.


Been using these UE Drops every day since received.  I have to admit, they are _awesome_.  I get it, some balk at the SBC codec, BT 4.2, but UE worked their magic here.  I'm not unhappy.  Hasn't made a difference.  The clarity and separation is excellent.  Sub-bass is super clean, cleaner than the Nuratrue Pro, that said I do have those set pretty high, so maybe if I pulled back they'd sound cleaner.  Fitted TWS is just a game changer.  I wish other brands would do this.  I've been in contact with UE to have one bud tweaked for fit.  They've been really kind and helpful on the phone.  Simple online process and they you send the bud in.  That said, the do fit great, but I think one bud needs to fit a smidge tighter.  Definitely could live with it, but considering the cost and the free fit adjustment offer, I need to do it.  I thought they'd need EQ, but all I did was put them on the loudness setting and I'm good to go.  I was in the car on a Zoom call with transparency mode on.  Perfect.  Yes, I kept my eyes on the road.  These buds are a huge step up from the UE Fits.  It isn't even close.


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## Canabuc

Off to a bad start. Seems AliExpress shipped my Oppo. Been tracking with DHL. They arrived in Canada 2 days ago. And show delivered today. Only thing is they DHL site shows they were delivered to northern Saskatchewan and I live in Montreal Quebec.

DHL says I have to contact shipper. Only means seems to be in a chat in the AliExpress site. Sent a message to the online store as I know of no other way to contact but of course it is now Saturday morning there.

Anyone ever have issues with AliExpress? How did they get resolved?


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## nekonhime

Canabuc said:


> Off to a bad start. Seems AliExpress shipped my Oppo. Been tracking with DHL. They arrived in Canada 2 days ago. And show delivered today. Only thing is they DHL site shows they were delivered to northern Saskatchewan and I live in Montreal Quebec.
> 
> DHL says I have to contact shipper. Only means seems to be in a chat in the AliExpress site. Sent a message to the online store as I know of no other way to contact but of course it is now Saturday morning there.
> 
> Anyone ever have issues with AliExpress? How did they get resolved?


If they do not respond to your text then open a dispute with aliexpress with evidences so you can have refund


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## Canabuc

I have to wait at least 10 days since shipped. Hopefully this will be resolved by Monday.
All I know is someone in Saskatchewan is going to be rocking a nice set of tws.


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## nekonhime

Canabuc said:


> I have to wait at least 10 days since shipped. Hopefully this will be resolved by Monday.
> All I know is someone in Saskatchewan is going to be rocking a nice set of tws.


There is two possible outcomes: 1 is DHL system show wrong shipping description to you which the item will deliver later on ( Monday to Tuesday) 2 is the shop on Aliexpress is lying or make mistake


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## Canabuc

DHL shows delivered to Saskatchewan. I called them and they state that was the final destination. They wonder if maybe the wrong waybill was out on the parcel told me to contact the shipper. So now I wait and hope.


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## jaydoc1

clerkpalmer said:


> Spent some additional time with the Nuras and I am beginning to drink the cool aid.  Compared to the Bose, everything is tighter and more refined with the exception that the Nura's can hit very low - almost like there is a subwoofer in the system.  They really feel like a set speakers are in your head.  I've run the sound profile a couple of times and both times they came out very similar.  I'm interested in trying them with the dongle to see if things can get even better.  My biggest disappointment is the ANC is typical throwaway ANC - meaning not really good.  So, if I'm using a fan like I do when I exercise, I'm reaching for the Bose.  For any other use, the Nura with immersion plus 1 and spatial on delivers an outstanding speaker like experience.
> 
> Turning to the APP2, it must be me, but I really do not like the way the sound.  I am surprised at the amount of love they get for having good sound.  They sound thin and tinny to me.  Coming from the Nuras to the APP2 is a jarring experience.  I'd never ever pick them for music.  That said, a lot of people like them a lot so I guess it's a preference thing or maybe Apple loyalty.


Agree with your comments - have the Nura-pro's for a couple of weeks now, and if the seal is good (I'm using Sedna's) it does sound to me a notch above other twa's (I'm comparing to Sony XM4, AT-TWX9, Senn Momentum 2, CA Orbit, FA ZE-8000, APPro2); like you say a speaker like effect, which works well for my music tastes with a nice full bass / mid-bass and decent mid to high clarity. 
What does make a difference (which is why there is an advantage to the Nura's) is BT5.3 which my Asus Zenfone 9 has also - listening to high bit rate flac's is a noticible step up in sound quality / clarity, which unfortunately is just not do-able with Apple phones unless you use Nura's BT5.3 dongle (which I haven't tried). The APP2's main advantage is in the ANC (like the Sony), but after using BT5.3 it's hard to go back to basic BT codec.
For my iPhone I'm tossing up between the Nura dongle or the Khardas Tea (which is BT 5 I think - does LDAC / AptX-HD) - anyone had experience with either of these / recommendations ?
Cheers !


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## Juturna (Yesterday at 4:43 AM)

I've been using the Bose QC II's over the Nuratrue Pro ever since I got them, and I won't back anyone saying that they sound poor, because they don't.
The ANC and transparency mode makes them so goddamn versatile too, they're one of very few earbuds where I feel like I literally hear (almost) as well as I would without earbuds on. With every other earbud it's always something getting lost in conversations and extremely robotic sound from voices etc.
Also the people complaining about white noise... Have to be very sensitive towards it, or I got a good pair for it, because it's very subtle.

I think the QCII sound... Maybe not as good as the Nuratrue Pro's, but they're honestly more *fun* to listen to (imo) and I've had it way easier getting a tuning I enjoy almost all music with.


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## helmutcheese (Yesterday at 7:13 AM)

So, you have an opinion (I know you were directing that to me), but others have not to have one?

I do not need backed up by anyone as I only express my own opinion but most of of the time many others feel the same be it here on buyers' comments on Amazon.UK/US.

I think Bose and Sony have a horrid sound (at the bass end) that IMO is not good and there are far better sounding earbuds out there (MTW3 for one) even cheap earbuds like Soundpeats with the V shaped are better for me for being out and about at home is different matter and I can use my FiiO set up.

I regret buying the QCII's overall for multiple reasons so I will get rid of them.


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## SynaestheticA (Yesterday at 7:36 AM)

helmutcheese said:


> So, you have an opinion (I know you were directing that to me), but others have no to have one?


I think lots of people crap over the Bose and Sony not just you.

I've been thinking of selling the ZE8000 for the Nura, don't know how the second hand market for tws is in Aus though. Have another eq in app to try before deciding what to do. They have a great sound for some genres but not just anything hectic or fast.

Was going to get the Nura this week but opted for something a little more... Mongolian. I just have to know how good wired iems are since I find myself impressed with $180 tws


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## nekonhime

SynaestheticA said:


> I think lots of people crap over the Bose and Sony not just you.
> 
> I've been thinking of selling the ZE8000 for the Nura, don't know how the second hand market for tws is in Aus though. Have another eq in app to try before deciding what to do. They have a great sound for some genres but not just anything hectic or fast.
> 
> Was going to get the Nura this week but opted for something a little more Kublai. I just have to know how good wired iems are since I find myself impressed with $180 tws


Which 180$ tws you are speaking of? Just curious.


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## SynaestheticA

nekonhime said:


> Which 180$ tws you are speaking of? Just curious.


Nuarl N6 Pro 2. That's AUD, most likely cheaper elsewhere. Still my favourite mids and highs


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## webvan

Having sent back my recent TWS acquisitions the QCII (for reasons already largely detailed) but mainly because of the criminal lack of passive mode, the Vista 2 (not enough of an improvement for running over the Bomaker 2 and useless ANC) and the Jabra Elite 7 Active (just didn't stay in my ears), I just got the Bose Sports Earbuds in my quest to find the ideal running earbuds !

First impressions are "so so". For a start the case is HUGE, never seen anything like that, even the QCI weren't that bad I think. The buds are big too but the tips are well designed and make them very comfortable to wear. When running there is definitely NO thump and that's a must in my book. Compared to the other "thumpless" options (Sabbat X12, Plantronics Backbeat, Aftershokz) the sound is clearly way better and make for a more pleasant "musical" experience. There is one problem though, there is more wind noise than there should be and it almost seems amplified. It's not just the large earbuds picking up the wind.
Wait, what ?! Aren't these supposed to be passive ? Well apparently not, Bose just can't help themselves can they ! Even when not running, using them in a store for instance, you can hear a slight "swooshing" noise, when shuffling items around not unlike what you get with the "aware" mode of the QCII. I'm not sure why they're doing that, to enhance the audio maybe ?

Anyone else here use them and notice that ?

As a side note, given the current discount and the recent release of the QCII, it's likely the Sports Earbud II will soon be here. Smaller case, smaller form factor and...still that "non-passive" concept ?


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## scubaphish

clerkpalmer said:


> They really feel like a set speakers are in your head


I love that kind of sound! That’s how I used to feel about/describe the Devialet Gemini. These sound really interesting


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## Hozay

jaydoc1 said:


> Agree with your comments - have the Nura-pro's for a couple of weeks now, and if the seal is good (I'm using Sedna's) it does sound to me a notch above other twa's (I'm comparing to Sony XM4, AT-TWX9, Senn Momentum 2, CA Orbit, FA ZE-8000, APPro2); like you say a speaker like effect, which works well for my music tastes with a nice full bass / mid-bass and decent mid to high clarity.
> What does make a difference (which is why there is an advantage to the Nura's) is BT5.3 which my Asus Zenfone 9 has also - listening to high bit rate flac's is a noticible step up in sound quality / clarity, which unfortunately is just not do-able with Apple phones unless you use Nura's BT5.3 dongle (which I haven't tried). The APP2's main advantage is in the ANC (like the Sony), but after using BT5.3 it's hard to go back to basic BT codec.
> For my iPhone I'm tossing up between the Nura dongle or the Khardas Tea (which is BT 5 I think - does LDAC / AptX-HD) - anyone had experience with either of these / recommendations ?
> Cheers !


I asked Nura their BT dongle supports up to Aptx-adaptive, not Lossless. So like many other dongles they can't fully unleash the potential of Nuratrue pro, unless you have the 2 phones that support lossless. Btw I tried all other TWS but CA orbit/ZE-8000, you said Nuratrue pro sounds better than these 2 right?


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## SynaestheticA

Hozay said:


> I asked Nura their BT dongle supports up to Aptx-adaptive, not Lossless. So like many other dongles they can't fully unleash the potential of Nuratrue pro, unless you have the 2 phones that support lossless. Btw I tried all other TWS but CA orbit/ZE-8000, you said Nuratrue pro sounds better than these 2 right?



What music do you listen to? The ZE8000 is pretty genre specific and quite a warm heavy thick sound. Not very good for fast electronic or busy metal. 

Beautiful for vocal music.


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## Hozay

SynaestheticA said:


> What music do you listen to? The ZE8000 is pretty genre specific and quite a warm heavy thick sound. Not very good for fast electronic or busy metal.
> 
> Beautiful for vocal music.


pretty much all rounder, and movies and games


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## dweaver (Today at 12:39 AM)

I am starting to think I am crazy. Sold a bunch of gear including the JBL Live Free 2, all for a loss. The Live Pro 2 goes on sale for $50 off and I convince myself to buy it... Crazy...

OK now that I have established the obvious. Why did I buy it? 

I like the Sony a lot but the JBL Live Free 2 was a hard one to give up with a few exceptions. Battery life was OK but not great, fit was comfy but a bit loose feeling, bass was more toned down than I was starting to enjoy.

In listening the Ceon YouTube guy suggested the Pro model has bigger bass than the Free model. I wondered if the stem might fit better, and the added battery life would be a bonus.

So far the fit is definitely snugger and I think even more comfortable. The bass does seem bigger but this will need more testing to confirm. Obviously I will have no way of confirming battery yet, but will assume it going to be better.

The Sony sounds better sonically for the most part but it's mic is definitely not great, and ambient is poor and I thought multi-point was working but has not been released yet. So these were also reasons for the purchase.

I know new models are on the verge of released but also know they will all have big price tags. So I dipped my toe back in the sales bin versus full retail.

Doing a bit of A/B to the WF-1000XM4 and the XM4 are simply more resolving. So for just enjoying music they are a better TWS. But the  Pro 2 is definitely comfy and I think they will work my exercise. Will see how I like them next week on the train going to work and as a multi-point option.


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## SynaestheticA

Hozay said:


> pretty much all rounder, and movies and games


I never considered toning the bass down on the in app eq (which doesn't do much) but I followed the eq of the majorhifi reviewer and got a better response. They've become less warm and more spacious. The bass has gone from wide to deep and I can feel more sub-bass. Considering keeping these and just holding off from more purchases for at least.......a week or two.

Still though, if it's the same price as the other high end models I'd go for the Nuratrue Pro, feedback here seems solid.


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## dweaver (Today at 1:38 AM)

Ok just did a test song from the movie Interstellar, Dreaming of the Crash and holy crap is the bass ever different on the Live Pro 2! It goes to a much deeper hard hitting sub bass level. Super enjoyable for this album as every song with that sub-bass organ sound is damn near shaking me in my shoes! Might not be great for everything but I have not had this level of sub-bass for this song in a long time. I think my Sony XBA-Z5 was the last BIG BASS IEM I owned that went this big.


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## SynaestheticA

dweaver said:


> Ok just did a test song from the movie Interstellar, Dreaming of the Crash and holy crap is the bass ever different on the Live Pro 2! It goes to a much deeper hard hitting sub bass level. Super enjoyable for this album as every song with that sub-bass organ sound is damn near shaking me in my shoes! Might not be great for everything but I have not had this level of sub-bass for this song in a long time. I think my Sony XBA-Z5 was the last BIG BASS IEM I owned that went this big.



Still gonna sell em in a few weeks though huh


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## dweaver (Today at 2:03 AM)

That is a possibility! I am more than a bit nuts. But these are better than the Life Free 2 so far, so we will see.  LOL 🤣

I do wish they had these on sale when I bought the Free 2. I was leaning toward these mostly but they were not on sale so I went the other direction. 

If anyone likes big bass the Pro 2 is the route to go. Can't believe how many reviewers suggest the 2 models sound the same. Only Ceonthemaking discussed the difference.


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## Hyperfluxe

Anyone else hoping the upcoming S23 Ultra in 2 weeks will feature aptX Adaptive support at the very least? Seems highly unlikely considering it's a custom Samsung SDG2 chipset which likely means no advanced aptX codec support, just vanilla aptX and SSC. I still haven't found a worthy flagship upgrade over my LG V60 that makes my Noble FoKus Pro sound so good over aptX Adaptive/Tidal HiFi - I've tried the ROG 6 Pro but it's plagued by Asus' forced DSP/EQ tuning and apparently the Sony Xperia 1-IV isn't much better.


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## C_Lindbergh (Today at 3:12 AM)

Hyperfluxe said:


> Anyone else hoping the upcoming S23 Ultra in 2 weeks will feature aptX Adaptive support at the very least? Seems highly unlikely considering it's a custom Samsung SDG2 chipset which likely means no advanced aptX codec support, just vanilla aptX and SSC. I still haven't found a worthy flagship upgrade over my LG V60 that makes my Noble FoKus Pro sound so good over aptX Adaptive/Tidal HiFi - I've tried the ROG 6 Pro but it's plagued by Asus' forced DSP/EQ tuning and apparently the Sony Xperia 1-IV isn't much better.


I'm hoping, but it's highly unlike since not even the Fold 4 (which has the SD  8+ Gen) don't support it. Also I believe Samsung uses their own Bluetooth/WiFi chip on all their smartphones. 


Which really sucks, but Samsung insist on pushing their own audio solutions down their customers throats.


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## jaydoc1

Hozay said:


> I asked Nura their BT dongle supports up to Aptx-adaptive, not Lossless. So like many other dongles they can't fully unleash the potential of Nuratrue pro, unless you have the 2 phones that support lossless. Btw I tried all other TWS but CA orbit/ZE-8000, you said Nuratrue pro sounds better than these 2 right?


Yes, for me the Nura-Pro + Zenfone 9 pairing gets the near-lossless codec of BT 5.3 going which sound better to me than the orbits & ze8000 which can't achieve that higher codec result - this + Nura's custom / personal tuning app are its advantage over other tws's at the moment (am sure they'll catchup though) - that and a pretty large 13mm dia driver. 
The ZE800 would be fairly close though (was impressed with it's very nice clarity / seperation and reasonable bass), but for me are hampered by having to use the supplied tips - can't tip roll with the ze8000. 
The orbits while decent felt a notch below the Nura's and ZE8000 - a little bit more 'veiled' sounding (relatively), highs not as extended, bass not as much energy, mids a bit dominant (which obviously works for some). 
I can't stress enough how important the fit is with tws's - not just musically, but ANC effect, etc all rely on good fit, so if you can trial them is ideal to determine what would work best for you. 
Cheers !


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## SynaestheticA

jaydoc1 said:


> The ZE800 would be fairly close though (was impressed with it's very nice clarity / seperation and reasonable bass)


Do you think the Nura is only slightly better than the ZE8000? Wanting to get the Nura but was expecting significant gains over the Final.

Final I found only slightly better than some cheaper buds I have. More cohesive overall than the FW5 but not more detailed. Thicker and fuller than the Nuarl N6 range but not 3 x the price worth. Both have quite nice mids and highs and a uniquely built driver setup. ZE8000 just loses the charm with busier tracks as the warmth/darkness is a bit mucho.


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## Gilroypro

Hozay said:


> I asked Nura their BT dongle supports up to Aptx-adaptive, not Lossless. So like many other dongles they can't fully unleash the potential of Nuratrue pro, unless you have the 2 phones that support lossless. Btw I tried all other TWS but CA orbit/ZE-8000, you said Nuratrue pro sounds better than these 2 right?


I own the Beoplay EX,


jaydoc1 said:


> Yes, for me the Nura-Pro + Zenfone 9 pairing gets the near-lossless codec of BT 5.3 going which sound better to me than the orbits & ze8000 which can't achieve that higher codec result - this + Nura's custom / personal tuning app are its advantage over other tws's at the moment (am sure they'll catchup though) - that and a pretty large 13mm dia driver.
> The ZE800 would be fairly close though (was impressed with it's very nice clarity / seperation and reasonable bass), but for me are hampered by having to use the supplied tips - can't tip roll with the ze8000.
> The orbits while decent felt a notch below the Nura's and ZE8000 - a little bit more 'veiled' sounding (relatively), highs not as extended, bass not as much energy, mids a bit dominant (which obviously works for some).
> I can't stress enough how important the fit is with tws's - not just musically, but ANC effect, etc all rely on good fit, so if you can trial them is ideal to determine what would work best for you.
> Cheers !


The Nuratrue Pro's


jaydoc1 said:


> Yes, for me the Nura-Pro + Zenfone 9 pairing gets the near-lossless codec of BT 5.3 going which sound better to me than the orbits & ze8000 which can't achieve that higher codec result - this + Nura's custom / personal tuning app are its advantage over other tws's at the moment (am sure they'll catchup though) - that and a pretty large 13mm dia driver.
> The ZE800 would be fairly close though (was impressed with it's very nice clarity / seperation and reasonable bass), but for me are hampered by having to use the supplied tips - can't tip roll with the ze8000.
> The orbits while decent felt a notch below the Nura's and ZE8000 - a little bit more 'veiled' sounding (relatively), highs not as extended, bass not as much energy, mids a bit dominant (which obviously works for some).
> I can't stress enough how important the fit is with tws's - not just musically, but ANC effect, etc all rely on good fit, so if you can trial them is ideal to determine what would work best for you.
> Cheers !


The Nuratrue Pro has a 10mm dynamic driver, not a 13mm.


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